# Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2



## waz

New thread created as a result of so many tweets, links that now corrupt the download.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545953443415633928

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546190727503159297

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545847511667146758

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545847517803384832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545847522899501056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545847530574970885

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545847536275054594

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546259349642907650

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546232813023678464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546232379533979648

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## Han Patriot

I think Russia initially underestimated Ukraine and now they look so much more composed and orgnized. They should have bombarded Ukraine heavily and then move in the troops like how they are doing now.

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## The SC

High-precision missiles of the Russian forces. X-59M2 "Gadfly-2" hunts foreign mercenaries of the Ukrainian forces through the window..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546250894186106882

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

waz said:


> New thread created as a result of so many tweets, links that now corrupt the download.



@waz bhai Can you post the link to the old closed thread in the OP for reference.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546205201950023682

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## vi-va

In my humble opinion.

*Russia has lost the war politically and strategically, regardless the thrust towards The Dnieper River seems unstoppable.*

Attrition warfare is not in Russia's interest at all. Definitely the worst way to win the heart of Ukrainians. Russia original plan was a lightning war, but failed. Feel sorry for Russians.

The generals of Russia army and intelligence underestimated Ukraine, which is fatal.

*Never underestimate your rival.*

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## khansaheeb

Han Patriot said:


> I think Russia initially underestimated Ukraine and now they look so much more composed and orgnized. They should have bombarded Ukraine heavily and then move in the troops like how they are doing now.


In the past the countries just surrendered to Soviet invasions but it seems Ukrainians don't like being invaded and are putting up a stiff resistance with NATO support.

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## Oldman1

@jhungary 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546020369462591488
What do you think of his analysis? Not let up on attacking the Russians since they have reduced their artillery attacks? Keep on destroying their ammo depots and train stations and trains themselves while loading and unloading.

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## ckf

vi-va said:


> In my humble opinion.
> 
> *Russia has lost the war politically and strategically, regardless the thrust towards The Dnieper River seems unstoppable.*
> 
> Attrition warfare is not in Russia's interest at all. Definitely the worst way to win the heart of Ukrainians. Russia original plan was a lightning war, but failed. Feel sorry for Russians.
> 
> The generals of Russia army and intelligence underestimated Ukraine, which is fatal.
> 
> *Never underestimate your rival.*


Biden is playing a risky game with NATO and appear to have the upper hand in creating European dissention against Russia. Strategic and political impact will depend on how the world economy withstand current oil shock/inflation. I think we are only seeing preliminary ripple affects. One dimension is the potential Euro collapse, and that will change the dynamics very quickly. EU/Russia peace settlement could lead to many negative outcome for NATO, which was already largely irrelevant. US republicans will be retaking the white house next election, so a US NATO withdraw still on the cards. US military budget has to be cut somewhere to deploy resources to the Pacific and space program. US economic interest lies in the pacific, not in EU.

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## vi-va

ckf said:


> Biden is playing a risky game with NATO and appear to have the upper hand in creating European dissention against Russia. Strategic and political impact will depend on how the world economy withstand current oil shock/inflation. I think we are only seeing preliminary ripple affects. One dimension is the potential Euro collapse, and that will change the dynamics very quickly. EU/Russia peace settlement could lead to many negative outcome for NATO, which was already largely irrelevant. US republicans will be retaking the white house next election, so a US NATO withdraw still on the cards. US military budget has to be cut somewhere to deploy resources to the Pacific and space program. US economic interest lies in the pacific, not in EU.


There is no way U.S. can compete with China in West Pacific without E.U. firmly support.

U.S. is a much smaller economy if you cut the Virtual Economy off, while China Real Economy is twice of U.S. U.S. has to cross the Pacific Ocean to project power in Asia, this will further reduce U.S. influence in West Pacific.

Yes, US interest lies in the pacific, but U.S. can't win without EU support. E.U. definitely want to pursue their own interest. Here we come, the Ukraine War.

*No matter Democrats or Republicans in the White House, the Ukraine War won't end easily, because U.S. need the bloody damn war badly.

Now E.U. is on leash again. Good luck to Yankees. Feel sorry for Russians, and Ukrainians.*

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## Han Patriot

vi-va said:


> There is no way U.S. can compete with China in West Pacific without E.U. firmly support.
> 
> U.S. is a much smaller economy if you cut the Virtual Economy off, while China Real Economy is twice of U.S. U.S. has to cross the Pacific Ocean to project power in Asia, this will further reduce U.S. influence in West Pacific.
> 
> Yes, US interest lies in the pacific, but U.S. can't win without EU support. E.U. definitely want to pursue their own interest. Here we come, the Ukraine War.
> 
> *No matter Democrats or Republicans in the White House, the Ukraine War won't end easily, because U.S. need the bloody damn war badly.
> 
> Now E.U. is on leash again. Good luck to Yankees. Feel sorry for Russians, and Ukrainians.*


China would need a base in Myanmar and Pakistan to assist in fighting off the Yanks. There won't be direct confrontation once we have 6 carrier groups.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546221411802533889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546386249765818368

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Kadyrov "For one battle alone, on average, over 100 Nazis, Bandera, shaitans and all the rest of the trash are sent to Bandera. This is a fact that is backed up by reliable intelligence from time to time"



Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546102505096073217

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## wahhab0202

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546386249765818368

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546228723367772162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545748230734073858

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546385669802627072


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546298750905319427

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546338831221542912

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546336118479564802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546377959346356224


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## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Kadyrov "For one battle alone, on average, over 100 Nazis, Bandera, shaitans and all the rest of the trash are sent to Bandera. This is a fact that is backed up by reliable intelligence from time to time"
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546102505096073217


Very old footage of the Chechens in combat. Looks like early days of Mariupol this was taken. I remember when this was first uploaded by you last month. Dont recycle news


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546299829197815808


Huffal said:


> Very old footage of the Chechens in combat. Looks like early days of Mariupol this was taken. I remember when this was first uploaded by you last month. Dont recycle news




Look at the date of the post. It was posted recently.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546352107040768001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546396841587228672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546075406142304256


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## Ali_Baba

'Twelve officers killed' in Ukrainian strike on Russian command post


Ukraine used US HIMARS rockets to strike a Russian command post at Chornobaivka Airport, near the occupied city of Kherson, at the weekend - causing a nearby ammo dump to explode.




www.dailymail.co.uk








> 'The technical characteristics of the flagship air defence system were overestimated many times, and the money allocated for the development of the S-400 was successfully stolen.
> 
> _'The deception surfaced recently, when the S-400s failed to shoot down a single HIMARS missile either in the Donbas or in the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions.
> 
> 'Not only that - during an attack on a military base in Ilovaisk, HIMARS missiles destroyed the S-400 complex, which was supposed to protect the area from air strikes.'_



S400 as most Russian systems are - is overrated even according to the Russian Goverment officials ...

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## Ali_Baba

Russia suffers ‘wild shell hunger’ as Ukraine hits arms depots with long-range Western rockets​








Russia suffers ‘wild shell hunger’ as Ukraine hits arms depots with long-range Western rockets


Vladimir Putin’s forces face ‘out of the blue’ ammunition shortages as warehouses destroyed ‘one by one’ using Himar and MLRS weapons




www.telegraph.co.uk





*Russia is running short of ammunition for its armies fighting in Donbas after Ukraine hit several arms depots with new Western long-range artillery, a pro-Russia blogger has said.*
The hits on at least five depots lying miles behind the frontline between Donetsk and Luhansk began on Friday and set off explosions at each site that lasted several hours.
Bloggers reported seeing fires burning for hours and Russian state media said that debris from the sites had been catapulted up to three miles away. Local authorities closed roads and evacuated civilians.

In his blog, Fighting Cat Murtz, a pro-Russia former rebel fighter, blamed Russian commanders who knew that Britain and the US were supplying Ukraine with long-range missiles but still stored ammunition within their range.

Russian air defences 'ineffective' against Himars

*"Now we've lost these warehouses one by one," he wrote. "Instead, out of the blue, a wild 'shell hunger' has just been created by the enemy who has mastered new foreign artillery systems and MLRS." MLRS are British long-range artillery systems.

Fighting Cat Murtz is a supporter of the pro-Russia Donetsk People's Republic, but is scathing of the Russian military leadership. In his latest blog, he called them "vile, petty and thieving".*

Igor Strelkov, a former commander of rebel forces in the Donetsk People's Republic, who had strong links to Russia's FSB, confirmed Fighting Cat Murz's information. He said that 10 ammunition dumps had been hit over the past week by Ukrainian missiles, and that several oil depots and a dozen command posts had been destroyed.

"The Russian air defence system … turned out to be ineffective against massive strikes by Himar missiles," he said on his Telegram channel, which has 400,000 followers. "There have been big losses in personnel and equipment."

*Ukraine's strike against Russian command posts and ammunition supplies came after further US deliveries took the total number of Himars on the battlefield to nine.*
Ukrainian forces had been begging for long-range artillery to even up the massive imbalance of weapons in the main Donbas war zone, where Russian forces have conquered town after town - mainly by bombing them into submission.

*Kyiv has not attributed specific strikes to receiving US Himars, British M270 MLRS and French Caesar howitzers. However Serhiy Gaidai, the governor of Luhansk region, has said that the campaign had succeeded in slowing Russian offensive operations.*

On Twitter, Ukrainian supporters were celebrating. "How can you sleep when it is so beautiful," one Twitter user wrote against a video from Donetsk of several explosions.
'Losses are very serious'

Russia's Ministry of Defence has said that it has destroyed two Himars systems, although Ukraine denied this claim. 

*Unofficial Russian military propaganda channels urged them to intensify their hunt for the Western weapon systems or face "serious losses".*

"Himars are working. Very accurate work on command posts. Losses are very serious,” one used on the Telegram social messaging app. The post was shared by Military Informer, a generally reliable pro-Russian propaganda channel.

Starshe Eddie, a Telegram channel run by an author who often reports from Russian frontline forces, said on Friday that Western weapons should "neither be underestimated nor a reason for panic". However, it urged Russian commanders to disperse and camouflage high-value targets, like command posts and ammunition depots.

“A number of systems supplied by Nato enable high-precision strikes far in the rear, especially with Nato satellite intelligence,” the author wrote in a post shared widely on pro-Russian war channels.


_>> HIMARS are making an impact !!_

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## Paul2

vi-va said:


> In my humble opinion.
> 
> *Russia has lost the war politically and strategically, regardless the thrust towards The Dnieper River seems unstoppable.*
> 
> Attrition warfare is not in Russia's interest at all. Definitely the worst way to win the heart of Ukrainians. Russia original plan was a lightning war, but failed. Feel sorry for Russians.
> 
> The generals of Russia army and intelligence underestimated Ukraine, which is fatal.
> 
> *Never underestimate your rival.*



Russian losses in military hardware are inching ever closer to 40% of their total. They effectively lost 3 full armies there, out of 10 armies they have. I did a bit of research of how much real are the Russian armies, and came to conclusion that 2 armies they had in the Far East are for all intents, and purposes institutionally defunct. They were functioning only to train reservists, without any genuine capability for offensive organisation, or operation. They were depleted of logistics, engineering, mid-tier officers, medics, own aviation, and had no presence in GHQ.

So, the real core of Russian presence in Ukraine are the 5 real armies, with more intact ones being ones most infantry+artillery rich. More tank, and technology heavy units have suffered the most. They also benefit from significant amount of Chechen irregulars, and DPR/LPR cannon-fodder, which nobody seem to be able to count.

It's nearly all infantry fighting + artillery.

My guess now, it's 65 thousands Russian troops + irregulars fighting on the frontlines, down from 70k 2 months ago. Second echelon forces, are increasingly being thrown onto frontline duty. I will put the size of Russian rear to be anywhere from 20k to 30k auxiliaries.

The minimum Russia needs to defend itself is 3 armies in the far-east. Otherwise, even North Koreans can invade them. Russian East if ripe for the taking. I wouldn't be surprised if even Japanese can now walk over into the Manchuria now, or Finland can retake Karelia.

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## Primus

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia suffers ‘wild shell hunger’ as Ukraine hits arms depots with long-range Western rockets​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia suffers ‘wild shell hunger’ as Ukraine hits arms depots with long-range Western rockets
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin’s forces face ‘out of the blue’ ammunition shortages as warehouses destroyed ‘one by one’ using Himar and MLRS weapons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Russia is running short of ammunition for its armies fighting in Donbas after Ukraine hit several arms depots with new Western long-range artillery, a pro-Russia blogger has said.*
> The hits on at least five depots lying miles behind the frontline between Donetsk and Luhansk began on Friday and set off explosions at each site that lasted several hours.
> Bloggers reported seeing fires burning for hours and Russian state media said that debris from the sites had been catapulted up to three miles away. Local authorities closed roads and evacuated civilians.
> 
> In his blog, Fighting Cat Murtz, a pro-Russia former rebel fighter, blamed Russian commanders who knew that Britain and the US were supplying Ukraine with long-range missiles but still stored ammunition within their range.
> 
> Russian air defences 'ineffective' against Himars
> 
> *"Now we've lost these warehouses one by one," he wrote. "Instead, out of the blue, a wild 'shell hunger' has just been created by the enemy who has mastered new foreign artillery systems and MLRS." MLRS are British long-range artillery systems.
> 
> Fighting Cat Murtz is a supporter of the pro-Russia Donetsk People's Republic, but is scathing of the Russian military leadership. In his latest blog, he called them "vile, petty and thieving".*
> 
> Igor Strelkov, a former commander of rebel forces in the Donetsk People's Republic, who had strong links to Russia's FSB, confirmed Fighting Cat Murz's information. He said that 10 ammunition dumps had been hit over the past week by Ukrainian missiles, and that several oil depots and a dozen command posts had been destroyed.
> 
> "The Russian air defence system … turned out to be ineffective against massive strikes by Himar missiles," he said on his Telegram channel, which has 400,000 followers. "There have been big losses in personnel and equipment."
> 
> *Ukraine's strike against Russian command posts and ammunition supplies came after further US deliveries took the total number of Himars on the battlefield to nine.*
> Ukrainian forces had been begging for long-range artillery to even up the massive imbalance of weapons in the main Donbas war zone, where Russian forces have conquered town after town - mainly by bombing them into submission.
> 
> *Kyiv has not attributed specific strikes to receiving US Himars, British M270 MLRS and French Caesar howitzers. However Serhiy Gaidai, the governor of Luhansk region, has said that the campaign had succeeded in slowing Russian offensive operations.*
> 
> On Twitter, Ukrainian supporters were celebrating. "How can you sleep when it is so beautiful," one Twitter user wrote against a video from Donetsk of several explosions.
> 'Losses are very serious'
> 
> Russia's Ministry of Defence has said that it has destroyed two Himars systems, although Ukraine denied this claim.
> 
> *Unofficial Russian military propaganda channels urged them to intensify their hunt for the Western weapon systems or face "serious losses".*
> 
> "Himars are working. Very accurate work on command posts. Losses are very serious,” one used on the Telegram social messaging app. The post was shared by Military Informer, a generally reliable pro-Russian propaganda channel.
> 
> Starshe Eddie, a Telegram channel run by an author who often reports from Russian frontline forces, said on Friday that Western weapons should "neither be underestimated nor a reason for panic". However, it urged Russian commanders to disperse and camouflage high-value targets, like command posts and ammunition depots.
> 
> “A number of systems supplied by Nato enable high-precision strikes far in the rear, especially with Nato satellite intelligence,” the author wrote in a post shared widely on pro-Russian war channels.
> 
> 
> _>> HIMARS are making an impact !!_


Welp UK you have officially lost all credibility in what you report

Idiots

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## vi-va

Paul2 said:


> Russian losses in military hardware are inching ever closer to 40% of their total. They effectively lost 3 full armies there, out of 10 armies they have. I did a bit of research of how much real are the Russian armies, and came to conclusion that 2 armies they had in the Far East are for all intents, and purposes institutionally defunct. They were functioning only to train reservists, without any genuine capability for offensive organisation, or operation. They were depleted of logistics, engineering, mid-tier officers, medics, own aviation, and had no presence in GHQ.
> 
> So, the real core of Russian presence in Ukraine are the 5 real armies, with more intact ones being ones most infantry+artillery rich. More tank, and technology heavy units have suffered the most. They also benefit from significant amount of Chechen irregulars, and DPR/LPR cannon-fodder, which nobody seem to be able to count.
> 
> It's nearly all infantry fighting + artillery.
> 
> My guess now, it's 65 thousands Russian troops + irregulars fighting on the frontlines, down from 70k 2 months ago. Second echelon forces, are increasingly being thrown onto frontline duty. I will put the size of Russian rear to be anywhere from 20k to 30k auxiliaries.
> 
> The minimum Russia needs to defend itself is 3 armies in the far-east. Otherwise, even North Koreans can invade them. Russian East if ripe for the taking. I wouldn't be surprised if even Japanese can now walk over into the Manchuria now, or Finland can retake Karelia.


Russia suffers great loss, but no one has interest to take land from Russia, just not worth it to take the risk of nuclear retaliation.


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## Paul2

vi-va said:


> Russia suffers great loss, but no one has interest to take land from Russia, just not worth it to take the risk of nuclear retaliation.



There is 1 nation on Russian border to which losing 50 million people will only mean losing 3.5% of population. Far less than any European nation paid for its territorial expansion.


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## Paul2

Telegrams: Kyselivka has changed hands again

Russians fell back again, and started shelling Kyselivka as usual. Almost nothing is left from that hamlet.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546589106234343433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546583657523171331

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546605456889679884

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546438344443297792


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546589106234343433
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546583657523171331
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546605456889679884




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546629288153292800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546599940989796357

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546599940989796357
Lisichansk, a newly liberated city in eastern #Ucrania , has been destroyed by clashes, but its residents are happy under Russian control. On July 3, #Rusia took control of Lisichansk, thus completing the liberation of all of #Lugansk . HispanTV.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546599940989796357

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546615288086642688

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## The SC




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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> Telegrams: Kyselivka has changed hands again
> 
> Russians fell back again, and started shelling Kyselivka as usual. Almost nothing is left from that hamlet.


The fighting essentially wiped that place off the map.


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## ckf

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546638334147133442
Soledar and control of North Bakhmut would be key to cutoff Bakhmut and Seversk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546624001547575298

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546614507010772994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546613857149485057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546613745132134400


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## ARMalik

*Putin: *
They should have realised they had already lost from the very beginning of our special military operation. Because its beginning also meant the start of a fundamental breakdown of the American world order.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546645302416900101

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## Bengal71

Paul2 said:


> Russian losses in military hardware are inching ever closer to 40% of their total. They effectively lost 3 full armies there, out of 10 armies they have. I did a bit of research of how much real are the Russian armies, and came to conclusion that 2 armies they had in the Far East are for all intents, and purposes institutionally defunct. They were functioning only to train reservists, without any genuine capability for offensive organisation, or operation. They were depleted of logistics, engineering, mid-tier officers, medics, own aviation, and had no presence in GHQ.
> 
> So, the real core of Russian presence in Ukraine are the 5 real armies, with more intact ones being ones most infantry+artillery rich. More tank, and technology heavy units have suffered the most. They also benefit from significant amount of Chechen irregulars, and DPR/LPR cannon-fodder, which nobody seem to be able to count.
> 
> It's nearly all infantry fighting + artillery.
> 
> My guess now, it's 65 thousands Russian troops + irregulars fighting on the frontlines, down from 70k 2 months ago. Second echelon forces, are increasingly being thrown onto frontline duty. I will put the size of Russian rear to be anywhere from 20k to 30k auxiliaries.
> 
> The minimum Russia needs to defend itself is 3 armies in the far-east. Otherwise, even North Koreans can invade them. Russian East if ripe for the taking. I wouldn't be surprised if even Japanese can now walk over into the Manchuria now, or Finland can retake Karelia.



Awesome, just continue the war for another 6 months and then voila, Russia lost all it's 10 armies. Then US, EU and Japan can come and divide the spoils among themselves, that's a lot of land and natural resources hey.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546634154703560705
🤣
🤣


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546620336493453320

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546612443132186624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546612128387416065


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546609483958329344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546609354555768832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546608999956635648


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546020369462591488
> What do you think of his analysis? Not let up on attacking the Russians since they have reduced their artillery attacks? Keep on destroying their ammo depots and train stations and trains themselves while loading and unloading.


Well, the core of the usage of HIMARS or MLRS system like that is to disrupt your enemy logistic.

First of all, there are virtually no way you can stop Russian from launching Artillery Attacks, as long as they have rounds and tube, they will continue to be doing so, the question now become how you can mitigate such attacks. 

Now, you can do it in one of the two ways, target the main supply effort (or Main Line of Communication)or disrupt their region supply depots (The one that serve the immediate area). Both are each of their own. As I mentioned before, if this was me, and when I get my hands on MLRS like M270 or HIMARS, I will go after their Main Line of Communication (Kupiansk) , because you disrupt the normal flow of supplies, it will not stop the onslaught for now, since the "Ready to Use" stuff are already distributed, but it will hamper the supply effort, effectively your line of supply will be interrupted and will have a hard time filtering supply. That's very simple, you disrupt the supply coming from Russia, you increasingly lower the amount that supply get to the front. 

What the Ukrainian is doing is the other way, they are targeting the regional depots. Which make immediate disruption to the Russian supplies in the frontline, it basically lower the Russian warfighting capability by taking their supply out. This is harder task, may not be as useful (because there will be multiple supply dump serving the same area and you need to hit them all) but this will stop the immediate flow of supply. 

As for why the Ukrainian do what they did, my educated guess is that they dont have enough HIMARS or M270s to make a large scale interruption that would work in Kupiansk. Which is why they are doing these hit and run type tactics. 

The Russian is in strategic pause at the moment, which mean they are regrouping, and intelligence estimate they are probably 40-50% understrength, and in military term, they are culminated, unless the Russian can raise another 30-40 Full size BTG, they probably aren't going to move anywhere inland. Even after R&R, what I heard is they manage to raise 10 BTG of "volunteer" This is not going to be enough for the push.

So what the Ukrainian now doing is, they got their men trained in Ukraine, UK, Germany, Norway, France and Poland, they are raising 100,000 men every 2 to 3 months, what the Ukrainian is waiting on is the latest round of Western Equipment, afterward you can probably see the Ukrainian are going to make a push late August to early September, for now, Ukraine did the sensible thing and disrupting Russian supply as they waited.



RescueRanger said:


> The fighting essentially wiped that place off the map.


That place has been contented more times then my mother jewellery in the will after she passed away.

Russia lost that place, they are staring down the Ukrainian counter attack. Ukraine lost that place, they can't do much but counter attack from the coast line. 

And last I check, it was Ukrainian who held that place....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546608201998733312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546608221091143680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546603759882625024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546603518643027974

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Russian losses in military hardware are inching ever closer to 40% of their total. They effectively lost 3 full armies there, out of 10 armies they have. I did a bit of research of how much real are the Russian armies, and came to conclusion that 2 armies they had in the Far East are for all intents, and purposes institutionally defunct. They were functioning only to train reservists, without any genuine capability for offensive organisation, or operation. They were depleted of logistics, engineering, mid-tier officers, medics, own aviation, and had no presence in GHQ.
> 
> So, the real core of Russian presence in Ukraine are the 5 real armies, with more intact ones being ones most infantry+artillery rich. More tank, and technology heavy units have suffered the most. They also benefit from significant amount of Chechen irregulars, and DPR/LPR cannon-fodder, which nobody seem to be able to count.
> 
> It's nearly all infantry fighting + artillery.
> 
> My guess now, it's 65 thousands Russian troops + irregulars fighting on the frontlines, down from 70k 2 months ago. Second echelon forces, are increasingly being thrown onto frontline duty. I will put the size of Russian rear to be anywhere from 20k to 30k auxiliaries.
> 
> The minimum Russia needs to defend itself is 3 armies in the far-east. Otherwise, even North Koreans can invade them. Russian East if ripe for the taking. I wouldn't be surprised if even Japanese can now walk over into the Manchuria now, or Finland can retake Karelia.


The problem from Day 1 for Russia is "The regeneration of Force"

A lot of people say "Russia not using 10% of their force" to invade Ukraine, well, firstly it's more like 30-40% of the entire Active Russian Armed Force were put into the theatres, second, many people don't realise (or don't know) Russia is a very big country and needed a lot of its force to defend their land. 

30-40% of force distribution is a very big proportion, US never send more than 15% of their standing army (Regular Army) overseas, mind you, 15% of the standing army means 150,000-200,000 troop

Another issue is Russia don't really have a big ground component of military (Not in a way US Military does) and most of the fighting men come from the "Reserve" and "Conscript" both of which will not perform as well as the Regular Troop, and the problem with Russia is they lost a lot of well trained troop at the onset. Which mean whatever come to take those people place would not be what we called "Fighting Fits" And if you look at Telegram and Russian official accounts, they are actually scrapping right down at the barrel with this......

The only thing is, Ukrainian lost a lot too, but at this point while I was typing, there are about 170,000 Ukrainian military being Trained in Ukraine, the UK, the US, Norway, Poland, France and Germany. That is the different on Force Regeneration

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546645302416900101

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546598454142566402
Massive explosion from HIMARS strike near Kherson


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546693745579814913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546691822881472514

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546691886416551936

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546655464443613185




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546448711563513857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546651199063003136

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546691141558484994

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546663294731272195

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546663294731272195


The concentration on depot strike in the south make me believe they are about to make a push to the South.

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## Goritoes

Well against the mockery of many members here since the war started, Russians are still fighting and inflicting massive damage to Ukrainians.

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## K_Bin_W

Goritoes said:


> Well against the mockery of many members here since the war started, Russians are still fighting and inflicting massive damage to Ukrainians.


Russia has almost destroyed Ukraine, It's an asymmetrical war far.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546737116843065344

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## vi-va

K_Bin_W said:


> Russia has almost destroyed Ukraine, It's an asymmetrical war far.


Russia destroyed cities, which Russia have to rebuild later, at the expense of Russian taxpayers.

This is symmetrical war, both side using infantries and cannonry. Not much air support.

Tactics from both sides are basically the same, the only difference is Russia has more weapons.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546734800752492545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546713766598934528


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546663294731272195




This was an attack on a food warehouse. Wth, they're aimlessly shooting at civilian infrastructure with West's weapons and guidance.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546741426729504768

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546663294731272195





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546767559969611778

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546795723567644675

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546798129793597445


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The army of the DPR (Donesk People's Republic) shelling the positions of the Ukrainian armed forces (UAF).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546797737038979072

Russian armored vehicles near Slovyansk shelling the Ukrainian forces.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546796471584002048

More Russian BUK and other air defense systems sent to the Donbass. The propaganda of HIMARS will be over very soon.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546780848543993861

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546788598476849155

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546683096149401600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546759997035581440

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546785235093831680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546763707891474432

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546837916260892672

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546791891877912582



How unlucky. Should have stayed in Russia.

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## khansaheeb

Han Patriot said:


> China would need a base in Myanmar and Pakistan to assist in fighting off the Yanks. There won't be direct confrontation once we have 6 carrier groups.


Pakistan is too weak economically and militarily to be of any use to China. China needs to vamp up the military technology projects in Pakistan to strengthen for Pakistan to be able to make any influence in the region.

As for how well Russia fares against NATO depends on how much China supports Russia. China is the only nation which can provide substantive economic and military support by buying oil and gas and by selling weapons to Russia. For China to be successful with Taiwan it most likely will support Russia as a key player in the multipolar world. US reaction will be to tighten up more sanctions on China which will create in stability in the world economy.

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## Paul2

khansaheeb said:


> Pakistan is too weak economically and militarily to be of any use to China. China needs to vamp up the military technology projects in Pakistan to strengthen for Pakistan to be able to make any influence in the region.
> 
> As for how well Russia fares against NATO depends on how much China supports Russia. China is the only nation which can provide substantive economic and military support by buying oil and gas and by selling weapons to Russia. For China to be successful with Taiwan it most likely will support Russia as a key player in the multipolar world. US reaction will be to tighten up more sanctions on China which will create in stability in the world economy.



Totally true. I know Pakistanis have a lot of support for China in the staredown with India, but does it hold the other way around?

China will hold relation with Pakistan in as much esteem as Pakistan is useful to Beijing, and at the moment, IMHO, it barely useful if it is at all.

TLDR: Most Chinese now cannot find Pakistan on the map.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546891552374640640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546891425366827008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546888146968772611

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, the core of the usage of HIMARS or MLRS system like that is to disrupt your enemy logistic.
> 
> First of all, there are virtually no way you can stop Russian from launching Artillery Attacks, as long as they have rounds and tube, they will continue to be doing so, the question now become how you can mitigate such attacks.
> 
> Now, you can do it in one of the two ways, target the main supply effort (or Main Line of Communication)or disrupt their region supply depots (The one that serve the immediate area). Both are each of their own. As I mentioned before, if this was me, and when I get my hands on MLRS like M270 or HIMARS, I will go after their Main Line of Communication (Kupiansk) , because you disrupt the normal flow of supplies, it will not stop the onslaught for now, since the "Ready to Use" stuff are already distributed, but it will hamper the supply effort, effectively your line of supply will be interrupted and will have a hard time filtering supply. That's very simple, you disrupt the supply coming from Russia, you increasingly lower the amount that supply get to the front.
> 
> What the Ukrainian is doing is the other way, they are targeting the regional depots. Which make immediate disruption to the Russian supplies in the frontline, it basically lower the Russian warfighting capability by taking their supply out. This is harder task, may not be as useful (because there will be multiple supply dump serving the same area and you need to hit them all) but this will stop the immediate flow of supply.
> 
> As for why the Ukrainian do what they did, my educated guess is that they dont have enough HIMARS or M270s to make a large scale interruption that would work in Kupiansk. Which is why they are doing these hit and run type tactics.
> 
> The Russian is in strategic pause at the moment, which mean they are regrouping, and intelligence estimate they are probably 40-50% understrength, and in military term, they are culminated, unless the Russian can raise another 30-40 Full size BTG, they probably aren't going to move anywhere inland. Even after R&R, what I heard is they manage to raise 10 BTG of "volunteer" This is not going to be enough for the push.
> 
> So what the Ukrainian now doing is, they got their men trained in Ukraine, UK, Germany, Norway, France and Poland, they are raising 100,000 men every 2 to 3 months, what the Ukrainian is waiting on is the latest round of Western Equipment, afterward you can probably see the Ukrainian are going to make a push late August to early September, for now, Ukraine did the sensible thing and disrupting Russian supply as they waited.
> 
> 
> That place has been contented more times then my mother jewellery in the will after she passed away.
> 
> Russia lost that place, they are staring down the Ukrainian counter attack. Ukraine lost that place, they can't do much but counter attack from the coast line.
> 
> And last I check, it was Ukrainian who held that place....



I bet they can only have so much ammo because they stockpiled it somewhere close by, like in Crimea, or Donetsk over these 8 years.

While Kupyansk, and Crimea are their 2 main logistic lines, the amount of supplies passing them is certainly not matching Russian enormous ammo expenditure. Most of videos of Russian supply trains going around are of them bringing in bulky heavy ammo/missiles only.

I would say it would barely be possible to feed Russian ammo expenditure even if Russia were to put its entire military logistics on these 2 lines, and we know, it doesn't.

I strongly suspect they are fighting using ammo caches they prepared beforehand, rather than bringing in everything from Russia.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546890869143396363

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546887540640256000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546890586619256834

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546857606513410048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546857280343314432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546855262484578306

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546849606046187520

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## NotSure

More and more photos are emerging from downed GMLRS missiles, used by the HIMARS systems and downed by the Pantsir-S1. Pay attention to the shrapnel holes in the front sector in the first pic. That means the fuse used in the 23Ya6 missiles are working very well, even with the extreme high relative speeds of around 2km/s between the GMLRS and the 23Ya6 missile.

Even the top tier american SAM Patriot failed here against Scuds, because the suberb american engineers failed to consider the high relative speed involved in shooting down ballistic targets, so the patriot warhead detonated too late. Here we have a pointdef SAM downing >M3 ballistic targets on a daily basis ...

Some infos about anti ballistic missile systems and the physics involved here:

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546847887526690819

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546844051173003265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546843644640067585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546767542634561539

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546837916260892672





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546819547399098369

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian and pro-Russian forces getting busy in the Bakhmut area 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546867858168287232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546828865200332800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546831252233355265
Missile and artillery rain on the Ukrainian forces. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546807903692152833


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546907138907258880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546637210539425794

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## vizier

NotSure said:


> More and more photos are emerging from downed GMLRS missiles, used by the HIMARS systems and downed by the Pantsir-S1. Pay attention to the shrapnel holes in the front sector in the first pic. That means the fuse used in the 23Ya6 missiles are working very well, even with the extreme high relative speeds of around 2km/s between the GMLRS and the 23Ya6 missile.
> 
> Even the top tier american SAM Patriot failed here against Scuds, because the top suberb american engineers failed to consider the high relative speed involved in shooting down ballistic targets, so the patriot warhead detonated too late. Here we have a pointdef SAM downing >M3 ballistic targets on a daily basis ...
> 
> Some infos about anti ballistic missile systems and the physics involved here:



Pantsyr missile is clos guided unlike abm oriented missiles that generally use proportional navigation. Clos is like catching a bus directly running towards it. Proportional navigation is like catching the bus running slightly towards in front of the bus while looking at it your head turned towards the bus and maintaining same direction which is why the sensor is for and try to stay at the same sensor angle. Less acceleration is necessary in that type of guidance but onboard sensor is necessary. It means pantsyr missile can stand very high gs if it is also used for abm purpose or maybe a different missile is used.

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## The SC

The Russian parliament will hold an emergency session, as all members of parliament were suddenly summoned while they are on vacation
@rzc_o8

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## Soldier35

Footage of kamikaze drones of the Ukrainian army shot down by the Russian air defense system has been published. One of the downed drones was destroyed near the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant, another kamikaze drone was shot down near the heating water canal of the city of Energodar.






Iran intends to transfer several hundred unmanned aerial vehicles to Russia. Jake Sullivan, national security adviser to the President of the United States, told reporters about this at a briefing. It is not known exactly which UAVs will be transmitted, perhaps they will be Karrar UAVs, Shahed UAVs or Iranian Arash kamikaze drones. According to him, the deliveries will also include UAVs capable of carrying weapons. Sullivan also added that Iran plans to train the Russian military in the use of these drones. The first stages of training should begin in July. Iran has long been developing drones, according to experts, some of Iran's UAVs are copies of American and Israeli models.






The Russian Osa-AKM air defense systems are not new, but they are regularly serving along the entire front line in Ukraine. A detailed story, with an emphasis on the technical aspects of the work of the Osa 9K33M3 air defense system in Ukraine, is in the video from the militia with the call sign "Bars". The video has subtitles






There were shots of the combat work of the Russian T-90M tank Breakthrough in Ukraine. The video shows the destruction of Ukrainian equipment through the video screen of the viewing device of the Kalina fire control complex. Russian digital fire control complex "Kalina", developed for some modifications of the T-90 tank. The complex combines into a tactical combat information and control system, a commander's panoramic sight with an integrated ballistic computer, a gunner's multispectral sight and firing conditions sensors.

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## The SC

Use of tos in the direction of Seversk


----------



## NotSure

vizier said:


> Pantsyr missile is clos guided unlike abm oriented missiles that generally use proportional navigation. Clos is like catching a bus directly running towards it. Proportional navigation is like catching the bus running slightly towards in front of the bus while looking at it your head turned towards the bus and maintaining same direction which is why the sensor is for and try to stay at the same sensor angle. Less acceleration is necessary in that type of guidance but onboard sensor is necessary. It means pantsyr missile can stand very high gs if it is also used for abm purpose or maybe a different missile is used.


Pantsir uses command guided missiles without a own seaker in the head section, that is correct and this is the reason, why it is very cheap and ideal for mass usage. Regarding the exact guidance method, i think they can use different guidance methods. 

Btw: another good videos regarding missile guidance methods:

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## aziqbal

Russia is making steady progress 

only 50% of the NATO weapons are reaching the front line 

and the ones reaching front line have a life expectancy of 7-10 days 

the Soviet Steamroller is crushing eveything in its pathway inch by inch metre by metre 

all the old Soviet equipment is now gone Ukraine needs to transition to the NATO weapons 

this will take time and money and Ukraine has neither 

so Russian will move on deeper into Ukraine 

will Ukraine counter attack and take back the lands Russia has seized? I highly highly doubt it

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546954450547384321

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## The SC

The Russians bought some HIMARS from Ukrainian soldiers

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546961952643203072
Another HIMARS strike

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## Paul2

NotSure said:


> Pantsir uses command guided missiles without a own seaker in the head section, that is correct and this is the reason, why it is very cheap and ideal for mass usage. Regarding the exact guidance method, i think they can use different guidance methods.
> 
> Btw: another good videos regarding missile guidance methods:



Command guidance if not that cheaper than semi-active, or beam-riding: you still need a gyro, INS of some kind, precision tracking on the launcher. It's only attraction today is immunity to antiradiation missiles if the search radar is off.

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## NotSure

For our "military man", graduated from West Point and worked at the Pentagon as the biggest military expert in the alpha quadrant of our galaxy:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/vxkoa2

Ofc it's not a M777 howitzer after a meeting with a Krasnopol round. No friggin way!

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## Paul2

aziqbal said:


> Russia is making steady progress
> 
> only 50% of the NATO weapons are reaching the front line
> 
> and the ones reaching front line have a life expectancy of 7-10 days
> 
> the Soviet Steamroller is crushing eveything in its pathway inch by inch metre by metre
> 
> all the old Soviet equipment is now gone Ukraine needs to transition to the NATO weapons
> 
> this will take time and money and Ukraine has neither
> 
> so Russian will move on deeper into Ukraine
> 
> will Ukraine counter attack and take back the lands Russia has seized? I highly highly doubt it



I am far less pessimistic. There is no breakthrough for Russians, and they stalled after Lysychansk despite them still having at least 3-4 battalions in the rear to attack Sloviansk.

They will be fighting now much further away from their logistic lines they prepared in the past 8 years.

Russians are fighting much less enthusiastically in Kherson exactly for the reason their supply lines being stressed. Less ammo in general, much less rocket artillery, rotation impossible, and they have to deal with Ukrainian specops infiltration, which is not an issue in Donbas, where they had 8 years to setup counterintelligence.

What do Russians can put on the table if they will push from Donbas? They squandered huge part of their armour, and refit only got them at most 1/3 of their losses. I only see them moving with light infantry under artillery cover. To reach Sloviansk, they will have to move their 152mm past Popasna, into the open. Their heavy MLRS will reach Sloviansk from behind the forest, but that's it for the next 2-3 weeks.

The next 3-4 weeks for Ukraine is 10k-15k extra infantry prepared + new artillery ammo + more drones coming, and few dozen pieces of armour being repaired/refitted/resupplied.

For Russia, the next 3-4 weeks is more logistic stress, less MLRS ammo, more officers lost to assassinations, and more morale loss to M270 strikes in the rear, looming battle for Kherson, and the only good things would be Izyum, and Lysychanks R&R operation possibly completing.

Ukraine's ability to inflict costly infantry battles for cities will only get stronger as Russia gets deeper into the country, and they spent 2 months only for Severo+Lysychansk.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546986491506745346

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546989621405487105


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546991699246858242

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## Vergennes

Welcome to hell


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546897718051758081

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546953616623378433

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546939802708230144

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546996215841259525
HIMARS are now striking Russian air defense units

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547000509415956481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546978135991881729

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546998691705282562

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547003875990839301

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546832881124888576

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546998977026920448

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546785250222686208

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546433348809154560

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## Bengal71

Soldier35 said:


> Footage of kamikaze drones of the Ukrainian army shot down by the Russian air defense system has been published. One of the downed drones was destroyed near the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant, another kamikaze drone was shot down near the heating water canal of the city of Energodar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran intends to transfer several hundred unmanned aerial vehicles to Russia. Jake Sullivan, national security adviser to the President of the United States, told reporters about this at a briefing. It is not known exactly which UAVs will be transmitted, perhaps they will be Karrar UAVs, Shahed UAVs or Iranian Arash kamikaze drones. According to him, the deliveries will also include UAVs capable of carrying weapons. Sullivan also added that Iran plans to train the Russian military in the use of these drones. The first stages of training should begin in July. Iran has long been developing drones, according to experts, some of Iran's UAVs are copies of American and Israeli models.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian Osa-AKM air defense systems are not new, but they are regularly serving along the entire front line in Ukraine. A detailed story, with an emphasis on the technical aspects of the work of the Osa 9K33M3 air defense system in Ukraine, is in the video from the militia with the call sign "Bars". The video has subtitles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were shots of the combat work of the Russian T-90M tank Breakthrough in Ukraine. The video shows the destruction of Ukrainian equipment through the video screen of the viewing device of the Kalina fire control complex. Russian digital fire control complex "Kalina", developed for some modifications of the T-90 tank. The complex combines into a tactical combat information and control system, a commander's panoramic sight with an integrated ballistic computer, a gunner's multispectral sight and firing conditions sensors.



Acquiring a lot of drones from Iran is a very good move.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I bet they can only have so much ammo because they stockpiled it somewhere close by, like in Crimea, or Donetsk over these 8 years.
> 
> While Kupyansk, and Crimea are their 2 main logistic lines, the amount of supplies passing them is certainly not matching Russian enormous ammo expenditure. Most of videos of Russian supply trains going around are of them bringing in bulky heavy ammo/missiles only.
> 
> I would say it would barely be possible to feed Russian ammo expenditure even if Russia were to put its entire military logistics on these 2 lines, and we know, it doesn't.
> 
> I strongly suspect they are fighting using ammo caches they prepared beforehand, rather than bringing in everything from Russia.


Well, I doubt that would work. 

The Russian has expanded A LOT of ammo, like a lot. It's estimated 20000 rounds of 152 a day, that's 600,000 rounds a month, this war has gone on for more than 4 months which mean it's around 2.4 mil rounds fired by now, and I have not counted Missile, Rocket and so on.

I don't know the scope of Russian arms cache but I don't think they have that many rounds store in Crimea (Kupiansk was captured so they cannot be prepared for it) but I would not think they have store any more than 1 millions rounds in the entire Crimea. That net flow would have captured by Western Intelligence.

They may still have arms cache lying anywhere, but I doubt the Russian fought this war without stuff coming from Russia

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547041520963960832

Russians raining Uragan MRLS on Seversk tonight


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546994977540128771


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547049879209402368


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546433348809154560





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547038725045092352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547037391692730374

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546981613476749314

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

What happens to Russia automobile industry? The output shrinks by 97 percent. The more money into war machine the less products to normal Russians. Putin apparently favors war over living standard.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547088188048547840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547148593663975424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547150874539073540

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547092118719668225


https://twitter.com/KilledInUkraine



More russians coming back home in trashbags

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## ZeGerman

aziqbal said:


> Russia is making steady progress
> 
> only 50% of the NATO weapons are reaching the front line
> 
> and the ones reaching front line have a life expectancy of 7-10 days
> 
> the Soviet Steamroller is crushing eveything in its pathway inch by inch metre by metre
> 
> all the old Soviet equipment is now gone Ukraine needs to transition to the NATO weapons
> 
> this will take time and money and Ukraine has neither
> 
> so Russian will move on deeper into Ukraine
> 
> will Ukraine counter attack and take back the lands Russia has seized? I highly highly doubt it


Source: trust me bro

In meantime i will enjoy all the daily videos of exploding russian ammunition supplies from himars


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547230531833716736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547230538360143874

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547242176421191682

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, I doubt that would work.
> 
> The Russian has expanded A LOT of ammo, like a lot. It's estimated 20000 rounds of 152 a day, that's 600,000 rounds a month, this war has gone on for more than 4 months which mean it's around 2.4 mil rounds fired by now, and I have not counted Missile, Rocket and so on.
> 
> I don't know the scope of Russian arms cache but I don't think they have that many rounds store in Crimea (Kupiansk was captured so they cannot be prepared for it) but I would not think they have store any more than 1 millions rounds in the entire Crimea. That net flow would have captured by Western Intelligence.
> 
> They may still have arms cache lying anywhere, but I doubt the Russian fought this war without stuff coming from Russia



Explosions in Kakhovka, and FOB near Popasna were huge, but ones in Donetsk, and Alchevsk were just gigantic. It would've taken many months to truck in that amount of artillery ammo for both Donetsk, and Alchevsk, and we haven't seen any signs of that.

There is a TG group I would not name, where Ukrainian volunteers collect UXO, and write down serial numbers, and manufacturing dates. They had ammo from eighties at the start of the war in the West, and 2 weeks ago they got to first 196X mortar round. They only seen 199X ammo issued to units who were assaulting Kiyv, and ATGMs of 1st GTA.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547241009582641154

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547270777887723524

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547269411240873985

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547298341591064576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547281733267095552


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547088188048547840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547148593663975424
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547150874539073540
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547092118719668225
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/KilledInUkraine
> 
> 
> 
> More russians coming back home in trashbags




No proof presented. Meanwhile, your buddy here was sent to Bandera. 👇



https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1547278206440448001





https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1547301853423075331





https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1547275820443615237





Ukrainians littering on the road to Siversk



Spoiler: GRAPHIC - dead Ukrainian troops on the road to Siversk






https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1547254504248279040

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## sammuel

~​​Kremlin wants people to call Putin ‘Our Ruler’ instead of president​

Allies of the Kremlin have called for people to stop calling Vladimir Putin Russia’s president and instead start addressing him as the nation’s ‘ruler’.

The Liberal Democratic Party (LDPR) has proposed the use of Pravitel, a Russian title, as it is more ‘befitting of Putin’s status and role’.

The right-wing party has just 22 seats in Russia’s 450-seat parliament but has close ties to the Kremlin and is often used by the government to float and gauge public support for its more radical ideas.

Russian media quoted the LDPR as saying: ‘The term ‘president’… was first used at the end of the 18th century in the United States, and much later spread throughout the world. In our country, by historical standards, this is generally a new word,’ the Telegraph reports.

The anti-West sentiment follows the national mood in Russia, which is being pushed by the Kremlin to counter sanctions placed on it since its invasion of Ukraine.









Vladimir Zhirinovsky, the leader of LDPR, died in April.

He was an arch nationalist and close to Putin, who went to his funeral in Moscow’s Cathedral of Christ the Saviour.

As well as supporting the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine, Zhirinovsky wanted Russia to reclaim northern Kazakhstan.

The title of ‘pravitel’ or ‘ruler’ has a deep history in Russia.

The Romanov family ruled the nation as Tsars, with near-total power from 1613 to 1917.

Tsar can carry a similar meaning to Pravitel, but it is more commonly known as ’emperor’.

In contrast, ‘president’, with its connotations of democracy, only came into use in Russia towards the end of the Soviet Union, when Mikhail Gorbachev was briefly referred to as president of the USSR.

Previously, Soviet leaders had been the Communist Party chairman or general secretary.

Putin’s critics have said that he already has total power in Russia and rules like an autocratic tsar.










Kremlin wants people to call Putin 'Our Ruler' instead of president


The title of 'pravitel' or 'ruler' has deep a deep history in Russia.




metro.co.uk

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## The SC



Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547319043710910466

Russia now confirmed over 4,700 losses

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## aziqbal

there is claims that Russian forces have entered Siversk and heavy rockets have landed in Bakhmut 

this might be because Russian artillery has been pounding both regions hard over the last few days 

there is some high ground around Bakhmut but Russian are just too good at grabbing land 

Sloviansk is next then Kramastrosk 

by next week they will be at the gates of both these cities

here we go 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547260429986062336

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## Dalit

Nice one. Russia is steamrolling ahead.

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## aziqbal

and here is why

I count 5 x MRLS and 40 launched in 10 seconds

thats 200 shells in 10 seconds and Russians have millions of these rockets they can do this all day long

no matter what you give Ukraine they cannot match the Russian firepower

if you take out 1 they send another 100 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545599126896721920


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547319043710910466
> 
> Russia now confirmed over 4,700 losses



Losses will happen on both sides. Russian gains are big and Ukraine cannot retrieve lost regions.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Explosions in Kakhovka, and FOB near Popasna were huge, but ones in Donetsk, and Alchevsk were just gigantic. It would've taken many months to truck in that amount of artillery ammo for both Donetsk, and Alchevsk, and we haven't seen any signs of that.
> 
> There is a TG group I would not name, where Ukrainian volunteers collect UXO, and write down serial numbers, and manufacturing dates. They had ammo from eighties at the start of the war in the West, and 2 weeks ago they got to first 196X mortar round. They only seen 199X ammo issued to units who were assaulting Kiyv, and ATGMs of 1st GTA.



meh, if it really went that way, then the Russian are dumber than I thought


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547242176421191682




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547218907651420160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547219397378465795

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547256569326362624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547301457526939650
Half of Soledar in Bakhmut region is already under Russia!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547267601784602624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547232106652344325


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547288138644594688


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547319043710910466
> 
> Russia now confirmed over 4,700 losses




Wishful thinking....Now, how about these assertions in the Financial Times about the West running out of weapons? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547289437566009347

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547230531833716736
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547230538360143874




Some of them already seized by the victorious Russian forces 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547291946875494401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547142493543751683


----------



## The SC

An American military expert says that they will be defeated if they confront the Russians, he mocked the British and mentioned that their limit is 10 thousand soldiers

He mocked the French, Germans and British and said if you asked them to prepare a military brigade and take them out overland to their island, they wouldn't be able to 🤣





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1100897230501974

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## Dalit

Such an incredible joy to see Russia pounce its way to glory. Awesome.


----------



## The SC



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## Dalit

The SC said:


>



What a great sight. Sheer awesomeness.



The SC said:


> An American military expert says that they will be defeated if they confront the Russians, he mocked the British and mentioned that their limit is 10 thousand soldiers
> 
> He mocked the French, Germans and British and said if you asked them to prepare a military brigade and take them out overland to their island, they wouldn't be able to 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1100897230501974



They are providing weapons and telling the Ukrainians to do the fighting LOL So much for European brotherhood.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC



Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547214451992137729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547280631721254912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547211264321093632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547263141754687488

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547259652378923010

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547257457025622016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547140329920421889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547349244662714370

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547330549643083777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547328925373710336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547329147101495299

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547328376544837633


----------



## ckf

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547088188048547840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547148593663975424
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547150874539073540
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547092118719668225
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/KilledInUkraine
> 
> 
> 
> More russians coming back home in trashbags


Can you please stop posting these individual identity? Even if true, these people deserves privacy and this is annoyingly disgusting and harmful to people's right to privacy. I already made a complaint and you should stop posting these.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547288138644594688
> 
> 
> 
> Wishful thinking....Now, how about these assertions in the Financial Times about the West running out of weapons?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547289437566009347




The US is nowhere close to running out of weapons for Ukraine. Don’t know what your talking about. What they’ve given Ukraine is pennies for the US. The US alone has 1,500 M198 howitzers just sitting in storage and thousands of pieces of armor. They’ve given only a third of its Javelin arsenal and a quarter of its stingers. 

I can’t speak for the Europeans, but for the US we’ve given very little.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547145246068408321


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547301848645869569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547329404380012544


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547326813768146947

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547318237632860161

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547325767750717440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547325680693772288

Reactions: Angry Angry:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547300800023728135

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547300804381577216


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547325459444207618


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547243201584676867

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547270225774665731

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547294407472316418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547287040324165635


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547281650782027776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547248363514494976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547318898864840707

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547244263024500736


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547110802334834689
The Russian army announces the entry of the city of Seversk after the withdrawal of the Ukrainian army under missile bombardment.
@khalediskef

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547228261515771904
Russian Defense spokesman Igor Konashenkov announces the downing of a number of Ukrainian Sukhoi planes in Donetsk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547257307058388995

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## The SC

Batches of tanks and materials captured by the armed forces







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546879879160930304


----------



## Gripen9

Strike kills nearly every deputy commander in Russian division: Ukraine


The one deputy commander who did not die is "in serious condition," according to the Ukrainian Armed Forces' communications office.




www.newsweek.com

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## Soldier35

Russian troops captured an American M777 howitzer in Ukraine, and a photo of another destroyed howitzer was also published. The captured howitzer was damaged, but according to the military correspondent, the DFCS digital fire control system unit was not damaged, it will be sent for study.






Published footage of the control of the Russian robotic combat module with remote control "Arbalet-DM" installed in the armored car "Tiger" in Ukraine. The module is equipped with a 12.7 mm Kord machine gun or a 7.62 PKTM machine gun. The guidance unit has a thermal imaging camera with a laser rangefinder. In addition, the module has four smoke grenade launchers.

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## zartosht

simply the best unbiased western analysis of Russian operations in the Donbass you will find

Colonol Markus Eisner PHD, head of the Austrian army's research and development






Major points:

-* beginning* of the war there were *93 Russian battalions (BTGS) vs. 81 UA battalions. Today its 103 vs. 60* as the Russians re-inforced theirs while the UA is suffering heavy attrition and many of their battalions lost their well trained professionals. Ukraine is rapidly losing battle capability.

- Popasnaya Breakthrough caused a massive cauldron. That the Russian deliberately did not fully close (massive idle forces in the north currently on standby and never used). Instead deliberately waited for UA to predictably send in heavy re-inforcements to get slaughtered

- Eventual UA retreat was chaotic and disorganized, with many troops running away on their own. (Russia is still picking up stragglers today)

-Himars system mainly attacks donbass militia who have less air defense. And expected to decrease in effectiveness with Russian adjustments (destroying them)

-m777 are garbage. Ukrainian general on record saying they have to constantly take them back to poland for shrapnel repairs as they are extremely prone to counter-battery fire.

- about half of UA equipment destroyed (Admitted by ukies, probably far higher)

-Heavy strategic attrition waged by precision Russian strikes (2800 missiles alone , with non-existant UA airforce

- Ukraine has 4 core strategic problems that Russia can exploit

- Generally extremely pessimistic, apologizes for being unbias as its his duty to be honest, and pays a tribute to a KIA ukrainian officer he personally served with.

-

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## sammuel

zartosht said:


> -m777 are garbage. Ukrainian general on record saying they have to constantly take them back to poland for shrapnel repairs as they are extremely prone to counter-battery fire.
> 
> -



Seriously ?

M777 is considered one of the best towed artillery , one of the reasons that it weighs almost half than other towed armillary of the same caliber.


" they have to constantly take them back to poland for shrapnel repairs as they are extremely prone to counter-battery fire "

Are you going to stand behind this statement ? You want to argue that the m777 is more " prone " to counter-battery fire " than other models ? What is that ?

If anything , the m777 is more light weight , and can be more easily be moved after fire . compared to other towed armillary.

~

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## Corax

zartosht said:


> simply the best unbiased western analysis of Russian operations in the Donbass you will find
> 
> Colonol Markus Eisner PHD, head of the Austrian army's research and development
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Major points:
> 
> -* beginning* of the war there were *93 Russian battalions (BTGS) vs. 81 UA battalions. Today its 103 vs. 60* as the Russians re-inforced theirs while the UA is suffering heavy attrition and many of their battalions lost their well trained professionals. Ukraine is rapidly losing battle capability.
> 
> - Popasnaya Breakthrough caused a massive cauldron. That the Russian deliberately did not fully close (massive idle forces in the north currently on standby and never used). Instead deliberately waited for UA to predictably send in heavy re-inforcements to get slaughtered
> 
> - Eventual UA retreat was chaotic and disorganized, with many troops running away on their own. (Russia is still picking up stragglers today)
> 
> -Himars system mainly attacks donbass militia who have less air defense. And expected to decrease in effectiveness with Russian adjustments (destroying them)
> 
> -m777 are garbage. Ukrainian general on record saying they have to constantly take them back to poland for shrapnel repairs as they are extremely prone to counter-battery fire.
> 
> - about half of UA equipment destroyed (Admitted by ukies, probably far higher)
> 
> -Heavy strategic attrition waged by precision Russian strikes (2800 missiles alone , with non-existant UA airforce
> 
> - Ukraine has 4 core strategic problems that Russia can exploit
> 
> - Generally extremely pessimistic, apologizes for being unbias as its his duty to be honest, and pays a tribute to a KIA ukrainian officer he personally served with.
> 
> -



It's interesting that both him and other military observers are using the same video of M777s being destroyed that the US and NATO fanboys on here can't seem to accept, and so called armchair "military experts" try so hard to deny. One of the stated goals of the Russians from the outset was to destroy the Ukrainian armed forces and their main capabilities, and it's ironic that the Ukrainians are the ones suffering the most from the attrition warfare, not the Russians, despite their very heavy losses.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> meh, if it really went that way, then the Russian are dumber than I thought



USSR's 152mm, and rocket artillery ammo stocks were giagntic, but not infinite.

2.5m rounds + what they lost in Alchevsk + Donetsk would be a double digit percentage of their total stocks. It's 2-3 strategic logistics bases emptied, of which WP had 18. Russia only inherited 8 or 9 of them.

If Ukrainians will continue popping ammo stockpiles, I see them having to revert to use ammo straight from the factories, which Russia have only few. There is no chance they will be able to make even 300k rounds per month. And some say Russian current capacity is less than 100k.


----------



## jhungary

sammuel said:


> Seriously ?
> 
> M777 is considered one of the best towed artillery , one of the reasons that it weighs almost half than other towed armillary of the same caliber.
> 
> 
> " they have to constantly take them back to poland for shrapnel repairs as they are extremely prone to counter-battery fire "
> 
> Are you going to stand behind this statement ? You want to argue that the m777 is more " prone " to counter-battery fire " than other models ? What is that ?
> 
> If anything , the m777 is more light weight , and can be more easily be moved after fire . compared to other towed armillary.
> 
> ~


Well, you are trying to argue military sense to people who say "Ukraine can't retake land because they have light infantry only"

There are no sense to talk about when their reference point is a computer game.......

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

zartosht said:


> simply the best unbiased western analysis of Russian operations in the Donbass you will find
> 
> Colonol Markus Eisner PHD, head of the Austrian army's research and development
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Major points:
> 
> -* beginning* of the war there were *93 Russian battalions (BTGS) vs. 81 UA battalions. Today its 103 vs. 60* as the Russians re-inforced theirs while the UA is suffering heavy attrition and many of their battalions lost their well trained professionals. Ukraine is rapidly losing battle capability.
> 
> - Popasnaya Breakthrough caused a massive cauldron. That the Russian deliberately did not fully close (massive idle forces in the north currently on standby and never used). Instead deliberately waited for UA to predictably send in heavy re-inforcements to get slaughtered
> 
> - Eventual UA retreat was chaotic and disorganized, with many troops running away on their own. (Russia is still picking up stragglers today)
> 
> -Himars system mainly attacks donbass militia who have less air defense. And expected to decrease in effectiveness with Russian adjustments (destroying them)
> 
> -m777 are garbage. Ukrainian general on record saying they have to constantly take them back to poland for shrapnel repairs as they are extremely prone to counter-battery fire.
> 
> - about half of UA equipment destroyed (Admitted by ukies, probably far higher)
> 
> -Heavy strategic attrition waged by precision Russian strikes (2800 missiles alone , with non-existant UA airforce
> 
> - Ukraine has 4 core strategic problems that Russia can exploit
> 
> - Generally extremely pessimistic, apologizes for being unbias as its his duty to be honest, and pays a tribute to a KIA ukrainian officer he personally served with.
> 
> -


M777 are garbage.
simply the best unbiased western analysis


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> USSR's 152mm, and rocket artillery ammo stocks were giagntic, but not infinite.
> 
> 2.5m rounds + what they lost in Alchevsk + Donetsk would be a double digit percentage of their total stocks. It's 2-3 strategic logistics bases emptied, of which WP had 18. Russia only inherited 8 or 9 of them.
> 
> If Ukrainians will continue popping ammo stockpiles, I see them having to revert to use ammo straight from the factories, which Russia have only few. There is no chance they will be able to make even 300k rounds per month. And some say Russian current capacity is less than 100k.


Artillery rounds need to move in the area BEFORE those tube arrive, you cannot have a truck going back and forth trying to distribute artillery round when your regiment is having a fire mission. Well, you can do that with low intensity stuff, not when you are going for 20000 rounds a day. 

Logistically, they would have to have pre-set weapon cache and move rounds up to FP from it so they can be refilled the depleted stock from backward LP. 

Traditionally, it was done on a just-in-time basis when you only bring enough rounds for a set operation (say 15 or 30 days OPs) and then you draw rounds from weapon cache, and LP resupply the weapon cache and then LP restock from the rear. Which make the idea of having everything in either Forward Position or Weapon cache really stupid. Because once that is damaged or destroyed (as in this case) you are talking about a 15-30 days void in ammunition. 

There are two problems as far as I can see, the Russian used up way too much arounds and now the Ukrainian is targeting their FP or Weapon cache. Nothing the production base in Russia can help, they need millions rounds upfront to replace those lost (Either they were used or destroyed by the Ukrainian) no country can produce million rounds of artillery shell in a week, which mean the stoppage are either gradually or they would have to stop using their tube suddenly.

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> It's interesting that both him and other military observers are using the same video of M777s being destroyed that the US and NATO fanboys on here can't seem to accept, and so called armchair "military experts" try so hard to deny. One of the stated goals of the Russians from the outset was to destroy the Ukrainian armed forces and their main capabilities, and it's ironic that the Ukrainians are the ones suffering the most from the attrition warfare, not the Russians, despite their very heavy losses.


T-S like you didn't realise I did not challenge the fact that it could be a M777, I was challenging of the story and the authenticity of the news. Which by the way, I still have not heard any of the legit challenge that was a M777. 

So what a M777 is destroyed? Should people cry over a 3 millions piece of gear when US aid is at tens of billions? So what US can just send them 96 tube and they cannot be replaced? An equipment is an equipment, and every equipment have its used by days and when it is done, you replace it with another. Sure, Russia can destroy anything, but what then? US can supply everything back to the Ukrainian. You destroyed one, we send 4 more, or 10 more, we can do this all day probably before you ran out of munition. Or do you think US does not have the economic base to send 100 M777 to Ukraine every year?

I was challenging the story about how they destroy that M777 along with 15 other they claim they destroy in a push for Snake Island. I don't care if the M777 is destroyed. And you need to stop being stupid and either answer my question or move on.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547572728739155970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547563088198508550

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547518969178980352

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547574782836690945

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## Paul2

aziqbal said:


> and here is why
> 
> I count 5 x MRLS and 40 launched in 10 seconds
> 
> thats 200 shells in 10 seconds and Russians have millions of these rockets they can do this all day long
> 
> no matter what you give Ukraine they cannot match the Russian firepower
> 
> if you take out 1 they send another 100
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545599126896721920



I greatly doubt Russia being able to match their ammo expenditure after Ukraine took out months worth of ammo.

That video is btw from 8-6 weeks ago.


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## aziqbal

Paul2 said:


> I greatly doubt Russia being able to match their ammo expenditure after Ukraine took out months worth of ammo.
> 
> That video is btw from 8-6 weeks ago.



Russia has millions of 152mm shells left. They are in no danger of running out. The Soviet Union was obsessed with manufacturing them because they always assumed that any war with NATO would be an artillery war.

shells are not a issue its barrel wear, but Russia has too many artillery pieces

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> T-S like you didn't realise I did not challenge the fact that it could be a M777, I was challenging of the story and the authenticity of the news. Which by the way, I still have not heard any of the legit challenge that was a M777.
> 
> So what a M777 is destroyed? Should people cry over a 3 millions piece of gear when US aid is at tens of billions? So what US can just send them 96 tube and they cannot be replaced? An equipment is an equipment, and every equipment have its used by days and when it is done, you replace it with another. Sure, Russia can destroy anything, but what then? US can supply everything back to the Ukrainian. You destroyed one, we send 4 more, or 10 more, we can do this all day probably before you ran out of munition. Or do you think US does not have the economic base to send 100 M777 to Ukraine every year?
> 
> I was challenging the story about how they destroy that M777 along with 15 other they claim they destroy in a push for Snake Island. I don't care if the M777 is destroyed. And you need to stop being stupid and either answer my question or move on.



You're a joke and fake...I think enough people see that already. But keep peddling your BS.

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> You're a joke and fake...I think enough people see that already. But keep peddling your BS.



The only jokes here are you and the other Russian Nazi bootlickers. Ukraine has lost only a handful at most of M777s. They've proven to be an excellent addition to Ukraines forces. The US just announced another 150K+ 155mm shells for Ukraine. You don't send that amount if those systems are ineffective.

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> The only jokes here are you and the other Russian Nazi bootlickers. Ukraine has lost only a handful at most of M777s. They've proven to be an excellent addition to Ukraines forces. The US just announced another 150K+ 155mm shells for Ukraine. You don't send that amount if those systems are ineffective.



You rednecks are the ones supporting Ukrainian Nazis, guess that must come natural to you. Keep the war going and let them slaughter each other for all I care.

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> You rednecks are the ones supporting Ukrainian Nazis, guess that must come natural to you. Keep the war going and let them slaughter each other for all I care.




You and your ilk don't give 2 s***s about Russia. You support the Russian Nazis for their Anti-Western stance , yet if you were offered a choice to live in Russia or receive a US Green Card, you'd choose the US every time. Theres good reason why US embassy wait times are in years.

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> You and your ilk don't give 2 s***s about Russia. You support the Russian Nazis for their Anti-Western stance , yet if you were offered a choice to live in Russia or receive a US Green Card, you'd choose the US every time. Theres good reason why US embassy wait times are in years.



Are you kidding me!?  and like you rednecks and your NATO poodles give a flying f*** about those poor little Ukrainian Nazis! lol You and your degenerate politicians have made it clear the only reason you're supporting the Uki Nazis is simply to kill as many Russians as possible, until the last Uki Nazi. If you love Ukraine so much, why don't you put your big mouth where your money is and go live and fight in Ukraine?! What a joke!! 

Your much vaunted military is quite happy bombing peasants, sheep herders, and kids with AKs, but when faced with the prospect of "protecting democracy" against the Russians of all people, you quickly go limp!  go on then, why has your president and military chickened out?!  pussies.

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## NotSure

sammuel said:


> Seriously ?
> 
> M777 is considered one of the best towed artillery , one of the reasons that it weighs almost half than other towed armillary of the same caliber.
> 
> ~


Yes, seriously. Considered by whom? Western military, which hasn't fought a real war since WW2 and so knows little to nothing about real warfare against a serious enemy with weapons to actually shoot back?



> "Are you going to stand behind this statement ? You want to argue that the m777 is more " prone " to counter-battery fire " than other models ? What is that ?
> 
> If anything , the m777 is more light weight , and can be more easily be moved after fire . compared to other towed armillary."



Light weight is not per se a good thing for military equipment. It is a bad thing, if the hardware is fragile and maintenance intensive. And this is exactly the problem with the M777, it is a fragile toy for a good weather "warfare", hyped up by so called western "military experts".

And you are the parrot here for this propaganda. You can't even move it properly in real harsh field conditions, without damaging it.

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Are you kidding me!?  and like you rednecks and your NATO poodles give a flying f*** about those poor little Ukrainian Nazis! lol You and your degenerate politicians have made it clear the only reason you're supporting the Uki Nazis is simply to kill as many Russians as possible, until the last Uki Nazi. If you love Ukraine so much, why don't you put your big mouth where your money is and go live and fight in Ukraine?! What a joke!!
> 
> Your much vaunted military is quite happy bombing peasants, sheep herders, and kids with AKs, but when faced with the prospect of "protecting democracy" against the Russians of all people, you quickly go limp!  go on then, why has your president and military chickened out?!  pussies.




We’re helping Ukraine rid itself of the Russian Nazi cancer. Why would we send in our military when the Ukrainians gladly do it for us? At $7-8B in military aid, the Ukrainians have destroyed a third of the Russian armored force and sent thousands of Russian Nazis to hell. We’re forcing the Russians to scrape its weapons depots and will continue to do so. This is an obvious strategic victory for the US. The Russians are being set back decades at minimal cost to the US. 

The reality is all of you Russian Nazi bootlickers would give your kidney for a US Green Card over ever living in the Russian hellhole.

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> We’re helping Ukraine rid itself of the Russian Nazi cancer. Why would we send in our military when the Ukrainians gladly do it for us? At $7-8B in military aid, the Ukrainians have destroyed a third of the Russian armored force and sent thousands of Russian Nazis to hell. We’re forcing the Russians to scrape its weapons depots and will continue to do so. This is an obvious strategic victory for the US. The Russians are being set back decades at minimal cost to the US.
> 
> The reality is all of you Russian Nazi bootlickers would give your kidney for a US Green Card over ever living in the Russian hellhole.



Using your own twisted logic, why would anyone care about the Russians challenging US global hegemony in the region?!  how much are you paying for gas in your pickup truck?  and so what if the Russians have been weakened, what you going to do, invade Russia?!  go for it! You're all talk!

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547145246068408321


Now we’re predicting weather 🤷🏿‍♂️
Let’s just say harshest in 1 million years then


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## The SC




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## Paul2

aziqbal said:


> Russia has millions of 152mm shells left. They are in no danger of running out. The Soviet Union was obsessed with manufacturing them because they always assumed that any war with NATO would be an artillery war.
> 
> shells are not a issue its barrel wear, but Russia has too many artillery pieces



Russia nearly completelly ran out of 122mm.

Russian industrial capacity without massive expansion is below 100k shells per month.

At least 4m shells were expended, and lost to attacks.

Different estimates for Russian reserves pre-war vary wildly from 8m to 28m. The upper plank is estimated based on what they had at the time of USSR collapse, and clearly not accounting for scrappage, sales to foreign buyers, and ammount spent for trining.

Through the post-USSR period, Russia has exported over 10m shells by all estimates. And they expended 3.2 millions on Assad. And at least 1m on DPR insurgency over the 8 years.

They also clearly had to expend ammo on training, on the orded of 500k to 1m per year, which is clearly more than their manufacturing capacity was, especially during nineties

My range estimate is 12m to 17m is what they had on Feb 24.

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Using your own twisted logic, why would anyone care about the Russians challenging US global hegemony in the region?!  how much are you paying for gas in your pickup truck?  and so what if the Russians have been weakened, what you going to do, invade Russia?!  go for it! You're all talk!



The Russians are committing mass war crimes, murder, rape, looting against an innocent peaceful country whose only crime is wanting to integrate with the West and leave the backwards Russia behind. 

Your on the wrong side of history

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians are committing mass war crimes, murder, rape, looting against an innocent peaceful country whose only crime is wanting to integrate with the West and leave the backwards Russia behind.
> 
> Your on the wrong side of history



"You're", i.e. "you are", not "your", learn how to read and write first.

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> "You're", i.e. "you are", not "your", learn how to read and write first.



Oh noz, it’s the grammar police on an Internet forum.  

Kid, I’m in the top 1-2% in wealth for my age bracket. 

Now back on topic

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546675454115028997







Among the list of ten candidates for British Prime Minister there are two "gay".






With these leaders, they aspire to defeat Putin

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547505497326116864
Judging by the location of the monument in the video, the missile strike was inflicted on one of the decision-making centers - the Headquarters of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on Streltska Street in Vinnitsa


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547500691341582337
Artillerymen of the group "V" with the help of UAVs discovered a column of enemy armored vehicles moving along the forest plantation and opened fire on it.

The enemy attempted to escape, but was destroyed by accurate fire.


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, the core of the usage of HIMARS or MLRS system like that is to disrupt your enemy logistic.
> 
> First of all, there are virtually no way you can stop Russian from launching Artillery Attacks, as long as they have rounds and tube, they will continue to be doing so, the question now become how you can mitigate such attacks.
> 
> Now, you can do it in one of the two ways, target the main supply effort (or Main Line of Communication)or disrupt their region supply depots (The one that serve the immediate area). Both are each of their own. As I mentioned before, if this was me, and when I get my hands on MLRS like M270 or HIMARS, I will go after their Main Line of Communication (Kupiansk) , because you disrupt the normal flow of supplies, it will not stop the onslaught for now, since the "Ready to Use" stuff are already distributed, but it will hamper the supply effort, effectively your line of supply will be interrupted and will have a hard time filtering supply. That's very simple, you disrupt the supply coming from Russia, you increasingly lower the amount that supply get to the front.



True, I mentioned targeting trains and the train stations before they start distributing to all parts of the regions. Targeting the main artery. Still need ATACMS as well to target Sevastopol and other supply depots that's a little further beyond the frontlines. 


jhungary said:


> What the Ukrainian is doing is the other way, they are targeting the regional depots. Which make immediate disruption to the Russian supplies in the frontline, it basically lower the Russian warfighting capability by taking their supply out. This is harder task, may not be as useful (because there will be multiple supply dump serving the same area and you need to hit them all) but this will stop the immediate flow of supply.
> 
> As for why the Ukrainian do what they did, my educated guess is that they dont have enough HIMARS or M270s to make a large scale interruption that would work in Kupiansk. Which is why they are doing these hit and run type tactics.
> 
> The Russian is in strategic pause at the moment, which mean they are regrouping, and intelligence estimate they are probably 40-50% understrength, and in military term, they are culminated, unless the Russian can raise another 30-40 Full size BTG, they probably aren't going to move anywhere inland. Even after R&R, what I heard is they manage to raise 10 BTG of "volunteer" This is not going to be enough for the push.


Figure they would still continue using artillery and missile attacks while they are on a pause with the rest of the troops and mechanized units because not sure why they would pause firing artillery unless it was disrupted so they just firing what they have now but with more missiles instead.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547665463693307904

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547663883338280960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547570539895525381

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547542300393459713

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547658955588923392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547680103571660804

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547685200481570822

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547590923122487300

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547519951564640257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547314357788413954

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547314357788413954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547680103571660804

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547691168128909315

Russias targeting capabilities are either awful or their intentionally targeting Ukrainian civilians. Either way, Russia is an incompetent terrorist Nazi state

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## RescueRanger

Corax said:


> You're a joke and fake...I think enough people see that already. But keep peddling your BS.


Exactly how is he a joke for pointing out facts?

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> The only jokes here are you and the other Russian Nazi bootlickers. Ukraine has lost only a handful at most of M777s. They've proven to be an excellent addition to Ukraines forces. The US just announced another 150K+ 155mm shells for Ukraine. You don't send that amount if those systems are ineffective.



You are on the losing side bud. The Russians are advancing as we speak. No amount of shells can stop Russian gains.

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## gambit

Corax said:


> ...it's ironic that the Ukrainians are the ones suffering the most from the attrition warfare, not the Russians, despite their very heavy losses.


The initial expectation was that the Russian military *WOULD NOT* incur heavy losses. Then it was downgraded to *SHOULD NOT* suffer heavy losses. Now it is downgraded more to *WILL* suffer heavy losses. The Russian military is suffering heavy losses from and adversary that is smaller and is literally begging for help. Against US/NATO? It will be Desert Storm redux.

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## Dalit

gambit said:


> The initial expectation was that the Russian military *WOULD NOT* incur heavy losses. Then it was downgraded to *SHOULD NOT* suffer heavy losses. Now it is downgraded more to *WILL* suffer heavy losses. The Russian military is suffering heavy losses from and adversary that is smaller and is literally begging for help. Against US/NATO? It will be Desert Storm redux.



Russia has gained control over large swaths of land. Russia is entering more regions as we speak. The losses you talk about are irrelivant in such a context.

US/NATO are only good at initiating regime changes in third world nations. When it comes to real adversaries US/NATO can only provide light weaponry and watch from a safe distance.

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## Corax

RescueRanger said:


> Exactly how is he a joke for pointing out facts?



He can't even identify an M777, or doesn't like to admit when evidence clearly shows one being destroyed, while most other military people clearly can. He claims to have "served" in Ukraine and "field stripped" an M777. You then be the judge whether he is a fake and a joker. See his posting history, he makes up all sorts of crap, even his own identity.



gambit said:


> The initial expectation was that the Russian military *WOULD NOT* incur heavy losses. Then it was downgraded to *SHOULD NOT* suffer heavy losses. Now it is downgraded more to *WILL* suffer heavy losses. The Russian military is suffering heavy losses from and adversary that is smaller and is literally begging for help. Against US/NATO? It will be Desert Storm redux.



Expectations by whom? If the Taliban and the Iraqis had the same degree of support and equipment as the Ukrainians do, the US would have suffered the same fate as the Russians are suffering now. You also seem to be blind to the losses the US/NATO would suffer if they were to go up against an even bearable peer. You haven't fought a peer since WWII.

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## Dalit

Corax said:


> He can't even identify an M777, or doesn't like to admit when evidence clearly shows one being destroyed, while most other military people clearly can. He claims to have "served" in Ukraine and "field stripped" an M777. You then be the judge whether he is a fake and a joker. See his posting history, he makes up all sorts of crap, even his own identity.
> 
> 
> 
> Expectations by whom? If the Taliban and the Iraqis had the same degree of support and equipment as the Ukrainians do, the US would have suffered the same fate as the Russians are suffering now. You also seem to be blind to the losses the US/NATO would suffer if they were to go up against an even bearable peer. You haven't fought a peer since WWII.



The US/NATO have been occupying toothless nations over the years. The real test was to fight against a worthy opponent like Russia, but they backed off. Russia won't tolerate BS in its immediate surrounding. Russia means business and throughout this military campaign we have seen exactly that.

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## Corax

Dalit said:


> Russia has gained control over large swaths of land. Russia is entering more regions as we speak. The losses you talk about are irrelivant in such a context.
> 
> US/NATO are only good at initiating regime changes in third world nations. When it comes to real adversaries US/NATO can only provide light weaponry and watch from a safe distance.



The US/NATO are all talk and no trousers, bunch of Hollywood Rambo wannabes who are brave fighting against third world tin pot dictatorships and peasant goat herders, and even then they manage to lose in the end.

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## Dalit

Corax said:


> The US/NATO are all talk and no trousers, bunch of Hollywood Rambo wannabes who are brave fighting against third world tin pot dictatorships and peasant goat herders, and even then they manage to lose in the end.



Afghanistan is a very vivid reminder. US/NATO ganged up for 20 years. Yet the end result is humiliating. Of course Russia is a power of a different magnitude.

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## Paul2

gambit said:


> The initial expectation was that the Russian military *WOULD NOT* incur heavy losses. Then it was downgraded to *SHOULD NOT* suffer heavy losses. Now it is downgraded more to *WILL* suffer heavy losses. The Russian military is suffering heavy losses from and adversary that is smaller and is literally begging for help. Against US/NATO? It will be Desert Storm redux.



BTW, Russia has now passed the number of losses of Iraq in OIF.

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## Oldman1

Corax said:


> Expectations by whom? If the Taliban and the Iraqis had the same degree of support and equipment as the Ukrainians do, the US would have suffered the same fate as the Russians are suffering now. You also seem to be blind to the losses the US/NATO would suffer if they were to go up against an even bearable peer. You haven't fought a peer since WWII.


Oh you mean kind of like the Vietnam war which the Russians supplied weaponry? And then the U.S. respond in kind when Russia invaded Afghanistan during the 1980s and pulled out after 10 years of warfare which by the way the Russians have suffered more in couple of months compared to that war. And then you have the Gulf War which Saddam called the mother of all battles or Vietnams in his word, saw what happened there. If the Russians are stupid enough to go and fight NATO, by all means let them. They have a hard time with a handful of HIMARS, imagine having hundreds of HIMARS in U.S. arsenal alone with longer range weaponry then what is provided to Ukraine, or even the M270s which has double the firepower of the HIMARS, and I haven't even talked about the U.S. Air Force and other NATO air force which will be backing up the Ukrainian troops and mechanized units that would love that support.

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## Corax

Oldman1 said:


> Oh you mean kind of like the Vietnam war which the Russians supplied weaponry? And then the U.S. respond in kind when Russia invaded Afghanistan during the 1980s and pulled out after 10 years of warfare which by the way the Russians have suffered more in couple of months compared to that war. And then you have the Gulf War which Saddam called the mother of all battles or Vietnams in his word, saw what happened there. If the Russians are stupid enough to go and fight NATO, by all means let them. They have a hard time with a handful of HIMARS, imagine having hundreds of HIMARS in U.S. arsenal alone with longer range weaponry then what is provided to Ukraine, or even the M270s which has double the firepower of the HIMARS, and I haven't even talked about the U.S. Air Force and other NATO air force which will be backing up the Ukrainian troops and mechanized units that would love that support.



Yes, that's exactly what I mean. The US lost in Vietnam when they were up against an adversary supported by an apposing superpower, the Soviets suffered the same fate in Afghanistan. But you fail to recognise that the US lost in Iraq and Afghanistan even in the absence of an apposing superpower supporting the Iraqis and Afghans. Oh sure, the US may have inflicted immense military force on the Iraqis and Afghans and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in the process, much like the Soviets and North Vietnamese, but the military is merely an extension of policy, and that's what you Americans can't seem to understand. Iraq is pretty much in the control of Iran, and Afghanistan has returned to Taliban rule and a proxy for Pakistan. So what "victory" did the the US military achieve in either of these two theatres? As for Ukraine, that's little evidence to suggest the token US and NATO support is having much affect on the Russian main political objective of their military campaign, i.e. the liberation of mostly ethnic Russians in the Eastern part of Ukraine. Oh sure, you'll inflict plenty of pain on the Russians, but at what economic and political cost? This is what you people don't see to understand.

You also fail to recognise the immense losses NATO and the US would suffer in a potential conflict with Russia in Europe... They're not the Taliban with vintage Lee Enfield rifles. Lucky for you your generals and politicians recognise this fact, otherwise they would have directly intervened by now.

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## The SC




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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> You are on the losing side bud. The Russians are advancing as we speak. No amount of shells can stop Russian gains.


-Russia has less territory now than they did in April and haven’t gained any territory in the last week or two. HIMARS are taking its toll

- they’ve lost a third of their armored force and expended 70% of their PGMs and now rely on 1960s era antiship missiles for land attack. 

- Russia has strategically lost already. Economically done, NATO expanded, and their military finished for decades. 

The US/West have won, now it’s all about continuing to exhaust the Russians.

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## gambit

Corax said:


> Expectations by whom?


Pretty much by the world, including US.



Corax said:


> If the Taliban and the Iraqis had the same degree of support and equipment as the Ukrainians do, the US would have suffered the same fate as the Russians are suffering now.


For starter, there is no way the Taliban could wield weapons systems beyond modified Toyota trucks. Like it or not, at the risk of being politically incorrect, they ain't that smart.

Next, the Iraqi military was a formal military and did received enough Soviet weaponry to become that kind of military. Since Iraq received no help from the Soviet Union and China during Desert Storm and was defeated, whose fault is/are that? With Ukraine, the EU is in the immediate geographical proximity and able, with the US, rendered assistance. So why no one else besides the Soviet Union and China helped Iraq? The 'If' you are positing is at best academic and no one would use in planning their national security policy.



Corax said:


> You also seem to be blind to the losses the US/NATO would suffer if they were to go up against an even bearable peer. You haven't fought a peer since WWII.


Desert Storm was not formulated for Iraq. How the US and allies executed their roles came from the Cold War. Now it is clear that the Russian military have a rather disdainful view of airpower, as in how shiddy was the VKS, US/NATO airpower would own the airspaces over all battlefields. That 'Highway of Death' in Iraq? How about the 'Highway of Death' in Ukraine outside of Kyiv? There would be no famous 'Left Hook' like in Iraq, but there would be something similar the B-52s would give to Russian troops.



Corax said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I mean. The US lost in Vietnam when they were up against an adversary supported by an apposing superpower, the Soviets suffered the same fate in Afghanistan. But you fail to recognise that the US lost in Iraq and Afghanistan even in the absence of an apposing superpower supporting the Iraqis and Afghans.


That argument is so stale it could be used for salad croutons. No military academies uses hope to teach their students because hope is exactly what you said. That if you face the US, you can hope that someone more powerful will help you and you will sort of 'defeat' the US after you suffer great casualties and the US eventually got tire of the war and just leave.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547691500468723714


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547344283556093954

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> He can't even identify an M777, or doesn't like to admit when evidence clearly shows one being destroyed, while most other military people clearly can. He claims to have "served" in Ukraine and "field stripped" an M777. You then be the judge whether he is a fake and a joker. See his posting history, he makes up all sorts of crap, even his own identity.
> 
> 
> 
> Expectations by whom? If the Taliban and the Iraqis had the same degree of support and equipment as the Ukrainians do, the US would have suffered the same fate as the Russians are suffering now. You also seem to be blind to the losses the US/NATO would suffer if they were to go up against an even bearable peer. You haven't fought a peer since WWII.




The US military of Desert Storm would skull drag the Russians through the dirt, much less todays. 

The US would have delivered such devastating force in the first week it would have completely collapsed the Ukrainian government and military thereby avoiding Russias current scenario. 

Russian military performance has been pathetic across every spectrum.

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## Corax

gambit said:


> Pretty much by the world, including US.
> 
> 
> For starter, there is no way the Taliban could wield weapons systems beyond modified Toyota trucks. Like it or not, at the risk of being politically incorrect, they ain't that smart.
> 
> Next, the Iraqi military was a formal military and did received enough Soviet weaponry to become that kind of military. Since Iraq received no help from the Soviet Union and China during Desert Storm and was defeated, whose fault is/are that? With Ukraine, the EU is in the immediate geographical proximity and able, with the US, rendered assistance. So why no one else besides the Soviet Union and China helped Iraq? The 'If' you are positing is at best academic and no one would use in planning their national security policy.
> 
> 
> Desert Storm was not formulated for Iraq. How the US and allies executed their roles came from the Cold War. Now it is clear that the Russian military have a rather disdainful view of airpower, as in how shiddy was the VKS, US/NATO airpower would own the airspaces over all battlefields. That 'Highway of Death' in Iraq? How about the 'Highway of Death' in Ukraine outside of Kyiv? There would be no famous 'Left Hook' like in Iraq, but there would be something similar the B-52s would give to Russian troops.
> 
> 
> That argument is so stale it could be used for salad croutons. No military academies uses hope to teach their students because hope is exactly what you said. That if you face the US, you can hope that someone more powerful will help you and you will sort of 'defeat' the US after you suffer great casualties and the US eventually got tire of the war and just leave.



So much inanity in your myopic world view I don't know quite where to begin. The racist attitude you have to those "dumb" Taliban, they were the same "mujahadeen" the US trained to use stringer missiles with great affect against the Soviets. The fact that they defeated you with just Toyota pickup trucks is not because of a lack of aptitude on their part, but lack of support from a larger power. But they doesn't change ground realities, they defeated you and are in power, the US ran away.

You can spin Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam any which way you please, the ground realty is that the US forces failed in their ultimate strategic objectives, against non-peer opponents. You can't rewrite history. And if your military were even 1% as confident as you armchair US fanboys on a Pakistani defense forum of all places, they would have intervened to save a European "democracy" by now. Why haven't they? Nukes? But even there you believe the US can prevail against the Russians, right?



F-22Raptor said:


> The US military of Desert Storm would skull drag the Russians through the dirt, much less todays.
> 
> The US would have delivered such devastating force in the first week it would have completely collapsed the Ukrainian government and military thereby avoiding Russias current scenario.
> 
> Russian military performance has been pathetic across every spectrum.



Then what's stopping you from saving your Frankenstein Ukraine puppet? Go for it! Either put up, or STFU, your bark is louder than you bite.

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## ckf

F-22Raptor said:


> The US military of Desert Storm would skull drag the Russians through the dirt, much less todays.
> 
> The US would have delivered such devastating force in the first week it would have completely collapsed the Ukrainian government and military thereby avoiding Russias current scenario.
> 
> Russian military performance has been pathetic across every spectrum.


What devastation, NATO is too scared to fight a real war and created economic sanctions to fight a proxy war in Ukraine. NATO never won a land occupation war, and lost vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Now they are facing economic depression and looking at a complete defeat on the battlefield as well. American/EU this winter will try to avoid a war at all cost once Putin reaches Dnipro river. When Iran openly allies with Russia and BRICS countries unite to defy G7 Russian sanctions, American/EU hegemony becomes toothless.

They called it Putin's curse, Boris Johnson quit, Draghi quit, Macron lost majority gov't in France, Abe assassinated, and Biden is officially the least popular US president in history( worse than carter in polls). Putin doesn't yap like Biden and is forcing true regime change in G7.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Corax said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I mean. The US lost in Vietnam when they were up against an adversary supported by an apposing superpower, the Soviets suffered the same fate in Afghanistan. But you fail to recognise that the US lost in Iraq and Afghanistan even in the absence of an apposing superpower supporting the Iraqis and Afghans. Oh sure, the US may have inflicted immense military force on the Iraqis and Afghans and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in the process, much like the Soviets and North Vietnamese, but the military is merely an extension of policy, and that's what you Americans can't seem to understand. Iraq is pretty much in the control of Iran, and Afghanistan has returned to Taliban rule and a proxy for Pakistan. So what "victory" did the the US military achieve in either of these two theatres? As for Ukraine, that's little evidence to suggest the token US and NATO support is having much affect on the Russian main political objective of their military campaign, i.e. the liberation of mostly ethnic Russians in the Eastern part of Ukraine. Oh sure, you'll inflict plenty of pain on the Russians, but at what economic and political cost? This is what you people don't see to understand.
> 
> You also fail to recognise the immense losses NATO and the US would suffer in a potential conflict with Russia in Europe... They're not the Taliban with vintage Lee Enfield rifles. Lucky for you your generals and politicians recognise this fact, otherwise they would have directly intervened by now.



Russians are also inflicting enormous pain on the West. Just look at the amount of demonstrations happening in the Western countries, the inflation that is getting out of control, and most importantly the challenge that Russia posted to the so-called "World Order" where fiat money such as the US Dollar and Euro were the reigning currencies. Today, many countries are abandoning the fiat money, and using other currencies for trade. This is the biggest challenge to the Western hegemony over the rest of the world. If people are not gonna take the fraudulent paper money, how will the West loot their resources? The West is indeed in fast decline.

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## BHAN85

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians are committing mass war crimes, murder, rape, looting against an innocent peaceful country whose only crime is wanting to integrate with the West and leave the backwards Russia behind.
> 
> Your on the wrong side of history


A side doing wrong doesnt mean the other side is doing right.
Both sides, West and Russia, means destruction for Ukrainian common people.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547537716077895680

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547732891571851266

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## ckf

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russians are also inflicting enormous pain on the West. Just look at the amount of demonstrations happening in the Western countries, the inflation that is getting out of control, and most importantly the challenge that Russia posted to the so-called "World Order" where fiat money such as the US Dollar and Euro were the reigning currencies. Today, many countries are abandoning the fiat money, and using other currencies for trade. This is the biggest challenge to the Western hegemony over the rest of the world. If people are not gonna take the fraudulent paper money, how will the West loot their resources? The West is indeed in fast decline.


The bigger issue in Western Democracy is complete institutional incompetence, what's lurking behind the shadows is even more frightening. When Janet Yellen, former fed and US treasury sec. told congress that inflation is "transitory", how did she become fed chair again? When Von der Leyen, proposed all those stupid oil sanctions, she and her team must of had economic analysis on the impact of sanctions on EU economies, did they? When Biden gave Ukraine 70 Billion, he obviously see Ukraine and sanctions winning, is CIA competent enough to give a proper assessment? Obviously all of these institutions failed miserably.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547732161448423425

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547727177952612352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547701601892048907

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## ckf

If a peace treaty cannot be negotiated, apparently Putin will raise hell to NATO once he finishes Donbas, .

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## gambit

Corax said:


> So much inanity in your myopic world view I don't know quite where to begin. The racist attitude you have to those "dumb" Taliban, they were the same "mujahadeen" the US trained to use stringer missiles with great affect against the Soviets. The fact that they defeated you with just Toyota pickup trucks is not because of a lack of aptitude on their part, but lack of support from a larger power. But they doesn't change ground realities, they defeated you and are in power, the US ran away.
> 
> You can spin Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam any which way you please, the ground realty is that the US forces failed in their ultimate strategic objectives, against non-peer opponents. You can't rewrite history. And if your military were even 1% as confident as you armchair US fanboys on a Pakistani defense forum of all places, they would have intervened to save a European "democracy" by now. Why haven't they? Nukes? But even there you believe the US can prevail against the Russians, right?


The one who is doing the spinning here is *YOU*. The Taliban did not 'defeat' US, we just got fed up with the mess and left. In no way does that constitute a military defeat. Calling me 'racist' is not going to help your argument one bit. All those hardware we left behind? %90 of them will be rusting in a couple yrs. Simply put, the Taliban are too backwards to engineer anything more than modifying Toyota trucks.

As for Russia, any criticism or mockery you leveled at US can be turned on Russia, and now with their sorry performance in Ukraine, the mockeries are even more applicable to Russia than to US.



Corax said:


> Then what's stopping you from saving your Frankenstein Ukraine puppet? Go for it! Either put up, or STFU, your bark is louder than you bite.


Nothing. But there is no need for US to be in Ukraine because Russia is floundering enough.

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## MH.Yang

Reveal a message:
I learned from several of my clients in the machinery industry that several Russian companies are seeking to buy large quantities of trucks from them. This was unimaginable before, because Russia itself produced a large number of trucks. I guess the Russian army will have large operations, so it needs temporary procurement.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547693357941415936

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## gambit

Here is why the US do not need to be in Ukraine...









Why Putin will never truly conquer Ukraine | The Spectator


Vladimir Putin has never been completely clear about his war aims. But he gives clues. He endlessly talks of the brotherhood of Russians and Ukrainians – and in this relationship he always puts Russia first. In Ukraine he wants Russian language schooling to be restored and he of course wishes to...




www.spectator.co.uk





Essentially, Ukraine have been a pain in the *** for Russia then, and will be a pain in the *** for Russia in the future.

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## TheNoob

F-22Raptor said:


> -Russia has less territory now than they did in April and haven’t gained any territory in the last week or two. HIMARS are taking its toll
> 
> - they’ve lost a third of their armored force and expended 70% of their PGMs and now rely on 1960s era antiship missiles for land attack.
> 
> - Russia has strategically lost already. Economically done, NATO expanded, and their military finished for decades.
> 
> The US/West have won, now it’s all about continuing to exhaust the Russians.



I always want what you're smoking whenever I read your posts.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547770341514129408
Another HIMARS strike on Russian ammo depot

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## khansaheeb

Seems like the war is going to get uglier 









Russia-Ukraine war: US citizens told to leave Ukraine immediately


Russia ‘using stolen Western weapons to commit war crimes’ Bloodstained baby buggy tells tragic tale of Russian missile strike Russian army needs 34,000 more soldiers Listen to the latest episode of our daily Ukraine podcast




www.yahoo.com




Russia-Ukraine war: US citizens told to leave Ukraine immediately​
Grace Millimaci
Thu, July 14, 2022 at 9:40 PM·8 min read







Firefighters, rescuers, military personnel and the police working at the site of the deadly Russian missile strike in downtown Vinnytsia, Ukraine - ROMAN PILIPEY/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock

*Russia ‘using stolen Western weapons to commit war crimes’*
*Bloodstained baby buggy tells tragic tale of Russian missile strike*
*Russian army needs 34,000 more soldiers*
*Listen to the latest episode of our daily Ukraine podcast*
The US Embassy in Kyiv issued a security alert late on Thursday urging all American citizens in Ukraine to leave immediately.
The alert, which appeared to be in response to a deadly Russian attack on the Ukrainian city of Vinnytsia, asserted that large gatherings and organised events "may serve as Russian military targets anywhere in Ukraine, including its western regions".
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky repeated his call for Russia to be declared a state sponsor of terrorism.
"No other country in the world represents such a terrorist threat as Russia," Mr Zelensky said in his nightly video address.
"No other country in the world allows itself every day to use cruise missiles and rocket artillery to destroy cities and ordinary human life."
*Follow the latest updates below.*
05:40 AM​Yellen condemns Russia's 'brutal' war​




US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen in Bali, Indonesia - Made Nagi
US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen has condemned Russia's "brutal and unjust war" in Ukraine and said Russian finance officials taking part in a G20 meeting on Friday shared responsibility for the "horrific consequences" of the war.
Ms Yellen, speaking at the opening session of the gathering of Group of 20 finance ministers and central bankers in Bali, Indonesia, welcomed Ukraine's finance minister and blamed the negative spillovers of the war "solely" on Russia, a Treasury official said.
Russian Deputy Finance Minister Timur Maksimov was in Bali for the meetings, while Finance Minister Anton Siluanov was participating virtually.
05:35 AM​G20 urged to reach consensus to avoid catastrophe​Indonesian Finance Minister Sri Mulyani Indrawati said on Friday it was vital for G20 finance leaders to reach a consensus during talks in Bali, warning otherwise it could be "catastrophic" for low-income countries facing soaring food and energy prices.
Finance leaders from the Group of 20 major economies are meeting on the resort island, as host Indonesia tries to find common ground in a group frayed by the Ukraine war and rising economic pressures from soaring inflation.
Sri Mulyani said the world had high hopes that the group would be able to find a solution to the triple threat of war, rising commodity prices and their spillover effects on the ability of low-income countries to repay debt.
"We are acutely aware that the cost of our failure to work together is more than we can afford. The humanitarian consequences for the world, and especially for many low income countries would be catastrophic," she said.
05:00 AM​Battlefield boost for Ukraine​US-made precision rockets have given Ukraine forces a major battlefield boost since they were introduced in June, tilting the balance against the Russians and possibly forcing Moscow to pause its offensive, experts said.
Since mid-June, using the Himars missile systems, Ukraine has destroyed more than 20 major Russian ammunition depots and command posts that were previously too far behind the front lines to be reached by traditional artillery.
But experts also caution that the new weapons are no panacea, and that the country needs more weapons and radars systems to use in combination to defeat the Russians.
04:36 AM​Russia ‘using stolen Western weapons’​Russia could have used captured Western weapons to commit and cover-up atrocities in Ukraine, officials fear, as Volodymyr Zelensky called for a Nuremberg-style court to hold Moscow to account.
The Telegraph understands investigators are exploring evidence that suggests the Kremlin’s invasion forces could have used the tactic in an attempt to cover-up suspected war crimes.
Having heavy weaponry fall into Russian hands is also a chief concern among Western governments donating equipment to Kyiv.
*READ MORE: Russia ‘using stolen Western weapons to commit and cover up war crimes’*

04:33 AM​Zelensky: Use Russian assets to compensate victims of terror​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has called for creating a mechanism for confiscating Russian assets around the world and using them to compensate the victims of "Russian terror".
Ukraine's Interior Minister, Denys Monastyrsky, echoed Mr Zelensky, calling the missile attack in Vinnytsia a "war crime" intended to intimidate Ukrainians while the country's forces held out in the east.

He said several dozen people were detained for questioning on suspicion that the Russian forces had received targeting assistance from someone on the ground.
04:13 AM​Little Liza, 4, among those killed​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has said that among those killed in Vinnytsia was a four-year-old girl called Liza, whose mother was badly wounded.
A video of Liza, twirling in a lavender dress in a field of lavender during happy times, was widely shared on social media.
"Today, our hearts are bleeding, and our eyes are full of tears because our family of many thousands has lost one of our own," the charity Down Syndrome wrote.
"They were just on their way from a speech-therapy class, and they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Mr Zelensky's wife later posted that she had met this "wonderful girl" while filming a Christmas video with a group of children, who were given oversized ornaments to paint.
"The little mischievous girl then managed in a half an hour to paint not only herself, her holiday dress, but also all the other children, me, the cameramen and the director ... Look at her alive, please," Olena Zelenska wrote in a note accompanying the video.

*READ MORE: Bloodstained baby buggy tells tragic tale of Russian missile strike on city 300 miles from front line *
03:33 AM​'They knew where they were hitting'​




A heavily damaged office building in Vinnytsia - Alexey Furman/Getty Images
Officials said Kalibr cruise missiles fired from a Russian submarine in the Black Sea damaged a medical clinic, offices, stores and residential buildings in Vinnytsia, a city 268km (167 miles) southwest of the capital, Kyiv.
Vinnytsia region Governor Serhiy Borzov said Ukrainian air defences downed two of the four incoming Russian missiles.
"It was a building of a medical organisation. When the first rocket hit it, glass fell from my windows," said Vinnytsia resident Svitlana Kubas, 74.
"And when the second wave came, it was so deafening that my head is still buzzing. It tore out the very outermost door, tore it right through the holes."




A rescuer takes a break in Vinnytsia - Alexey Furman/Getty Images
Mr Borzov said 36 apartment buildings were damaged and residents were evacuated. Along with hitting buildings, the missiles ignited a fire that spread to 50 cars in a parking lot, officials said.
"These are quite high-precision missiles," Mr Borzov said. "They knew where they were hitting."




What remains of downtown Vinnytsia after Russia's attack - ROMAN PILIPEY/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock
Among the buildings damaged in the strike was the House of Officers, a Soviet-era concert hall.
Margarita Simonyan, head of the state-controlled Russian television network RT, said military officials told her a building in Vinnytsia was targeted because it housed Ukrainian Nazis.
03:22 AM​Zelensky accuses Russia of deliberately targeting civilians​




Ukrainian emergency workers and military work at the site of the Russian missile strike in downtown Vinnytsia - ROMAN PILIPEY/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock
Ukraine's president has accused Russia of deliberately targeting civilians in locations without military value.
Volodymyr Zelensky's outrage came after Russian missiles struck a city in central Ukraine on Thursday, killing at least 23 people and wounding more than 100 others far from the front lines.
National Police Chief Ihor Klymenko said only six bodies had been identified so far, while 39 people were still missing.




Toys are scattered near shattered glass in an apartment damaged in the missile strike on Vinnytsia - Alexey Furman/Getty Images
Three children younger than 10 where among the dead.
Of the 66 people hospitalised, five remained in a critical condition while 34 sustained severe injuries, Ukraine's State Emergency Service said.
Russia denied targeting civilians.
"Russia only strikes at military targets in Ukraine. The strike on Vinnytsia targeted an officers' residence, where preparations by Ukrainian armed forces were underway," Evgeny Varganov, a member of Russia's permanent UN mission, said in an address to the chamber.
03:05 AM​Today's top stories​
Russia could have used captured Western weapons to commit and cover-up atrocities in Ukraine, officials fear, as Volodymyr Zelensky called for a Nuremberg-style court to hold Moscow to account
Russian missiles struck the centre of a western Ukrainian city on Thursday, killing three children including a toddler pushing a pram
The Kremlin has ordered a “volunteer mobilisation” of up to 34,000 soldiers by the end of next month to patch up its battered forces in Ukraine, analysts have said
French President Emmanuel Macron has accused Russia of using energy as a “weapon of war” as the chief executive of oil and gas giant Shell warned gas rationing in Europe this winter was possible


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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Reveal a message:
> I learned from several of my clients in the machinery industry that several Russian companies are seeking to buy large quantities of trucks from them. This was unimaginable before, because Russia itself produced a large number of trucks. I guess the Russian army will have large operations, so it needs temporary procurement.


I reveal a message; Russia manufacturing is very weak, can’t make everything, relies on imports. That’s normal, even Germany manufacturing is stronger however can’t make everything. A truck consists of thousands parts, a car ten thousand parts. Because of sanctions Russia car industry has collapsed, the same happens to truck industry.
Buying Chinese trucks is the only way out for the Russians. That’s not temporary that will be permanent.

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> I reveal a message; Russia manufacturing is very weak, can’t make everything, relies on imports. That’s normal, even Germany manufacturing is stronger however can’t make everything. A truck consists of thousands parts, a car ten thousand parts. Because of sanctions Russia car industry has collapsed, the same happens to truck industry.
> Buying Chinese trucks is the only way out for the Russians.


Then I'll tell you a cruel truth: 
Almost all German machinery manufacturing industries rely on cutting tools and other cemented carbide products produced by German Kennametal company. 
While German kennemetal relies on my company, China ZCC.CT group.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Then I'll tell you a cruel truth:
> Almost all German machinery manufacturing industries rely on cutting tools and other cemented carbide products produced by German Kennametal company.
> While German kennemetal relies on my company, China ZCC.CT group.


I don’t know details however that’s normal. the world economy is intertwined. everybody relies on everybody. German carmakers can’t make cars because Ukraine can’t deliver cable harness.
My prediction is Russia manufacturing is finished. Soon it will end up like oil rich venezuela, can’t even make toilet paper.
Because making toilet paper you need machines. If you can’t make the machines then you import toilet paper.


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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> I don’t know details however that’s normal. the world economy is intertwined. everybody relies on everybody. German carmakers can’t make cars because Ukraine can’t deliver cable harness.
> My prediction is Russia manufacturing is finished. Soon it will end up like oil rich venezuela, can’t even make toilet paper.
> Because making toilet paper you need machines. If you can’t make the machines then you import toilet paper.


The manufacturing industry in Russia is not as bad as you say. Their trucks are of high output and good quality.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> The manufacturing industry in Russia is not as bad as you say. Their trucks are of high output and good quality.


Ok would you buy trucks from Russia?
Vietnam doing assembly Gaz trucks?
Probably not. If compared to Western made trucks, those Russian trucks are 50 years behind in everything. In the words of a poster: garbage.









Russian automaker GAZ starts car assembly in Việt Nam


The first automobile kits for assembly Russian automaker GAZ Group have been already been shipped to Việt Nam, said Deputy Prime Minister Maxim Akimov.



vietnamnews.vn


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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> -Russia has less territory now than they did in April and haven’t gained any territory in the last week or two. HIMARS are taking its toll
> 
> - they’ve lost a third of their armored force and expended 70% of their PGMs and now rely on 1960s era antiship missiles for land attack.
> 
> - Russia has strategically lost already. Economically done, NATO expanded, and their military finished for decades.
> 
> The US/West have won, now it’s all about continuing to exhaust the Russians.



The US/West hasn't won a thing. Russia is doing its thing and moving on without breaking a sweat.



F-22Raptor said:


> The US military of Desert Storm would skull drag the Russians through the dirt, much less todays.
> 
> The US would have delivered such devastating force in the first week it would have completely collapsed the Ukrainian government and military thereby avoiding Russias current scenario.
> 
> Russian military performance has been pathetic across every spectrum.



The US couldn't win in Afghanistan. You are not as powerful and invincible as you think you are. Russia is doing a terrific job compared to US/NATO performance in Afghanistan. It took US/NATO 20 years to accept defeat and run from Afghanistan. Something the entire world had already predicted years ago. At least in Ukraine the world can see that Russia is making progress despite losses and being slow.

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## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> The one who is doing the spinning here is *YOU*. The Taliban did not 'defeat' US, we just got fed up with the mess and left. In no way does that constitute a military defeat. Calling me 'racist' is not going to help your argument one bit. All those hardware we left behind? %90 of them will be rusting in a couple yrs. Simply put, the Taliban are too backwards to engineer anything more than modifying Toyota trucks.
> 
> As for Russia, any criticism or mockery you leveled at US can be turned on Russia, and now with their sorry performance in Ukraine, the mockeries are even more applicable to Russia than to US.
> 
> 
> Nothing. But there is no need for US to be in Ukraine because Russia is floundering enough.


Stop fooling yourself and accept the reality, be a man and lower your head:-








US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general - France 24


US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general




www.france24.com

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## gambit

khansaheeb said:


> Stop fooling yourself and accept the reality, be a man and lower your head:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general - France 24
> 
> 
> US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.france24.com


Yeah...Too bad you did not note how he said 'lost'...









US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general - France 24


US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general




www.france24.com





"The war was a strategic failure," Milley told a committee hearing about the US troop pullout from Afghanistan and the chaotic evacuation from the capital Kabul.​​"It wasn't lost in the last 20 days or even 20 months," Milley said.​​*"There's a cumulative effect to a series of strategic decisions that go way back,"* said the general, the top military advisor to President Joe Biden, who ordered an end to the 20-year US troop presence in Afghanistan.​
You clearly did not think about what Milley really meant to say. Did the USAF failed against the Afghanistan Air Force?

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## Dalit

gambit said:


> Yeah...Too bad you did not note how he said 'lost'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general - France 24
> 
> 
> US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.france24.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The war was a strategic failure," Milley told a committee hearing about the US troop pullout from Afghanistan and the chaotic evacuation from the capital Kabul.​​"It wasn't lost in the last 20 days or even 20 months," Milley said.​​*"There's a cumulative effect to a series of strategic decisions that go way back,"* said the general, the top military advisor to President Joe Biden, who ordered an end to the 20-year US troop presence in Afghanistan.​
> You clearly did not think about what Milley really meant to say. Did the USAF failed against the Afghanistan Air Force?



LOL sure. Blame "cumulative effects" for your losses in Afghanistan.

The Russians are running away with victory and there is little anyone can do about that.

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## gambit

Dalit said:


> The US/West hasn't won a thing. Russia is doing its thing and moving on without breaking a sweat.


No sweat, but a lot more blood loss than Poutine though.



Dalit said:


> The US couldn't win in Afghanistan. You are not as powerful and invincible as you think you are. Russia is doing a terrific job compared to US/NATO performance in Afghanistan. It took US/NATO 20 years to accept defeat and run from Afghanistan. Something the entire world had already predicted years ago. At least in Ukraine the world can see that Russia is making progress despite losses and being slow.


Utter BS. If this was US against Ukraine, Kyiv would be in our hands in 30 days or less.



Dalit said:


> LOL sure. Blame "cumulative effects" for your losses in Afghanistan.


Let US know when Pakistan remodel its military under Taliban model.

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## Dalit

gambit said:


> No sweat, but a lot more blood loss than Poutine though.
> 
> 
> Utter BS. If this was US against Ukraine, Kyiv would be in our hands in 30 days or less.



Russia is on path of victory. 30 days or 2 years. Irrelivant.

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## gambit

Dalit said:


> Russia is on path of victory. 30 days or 2 years. Irrelivant.


Irrelevant when it is not your blood, sofa soldier.

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## Dalit

gambit said:


> Irrelevant when it is not your blood, sofa soldier.



When did I say that I cared? You reap what you sow one way or another. Of course I am sitting on my sofa and watching the show unfold. Let me say it in plain words. I want to see you bleed for the wrongdoings you did over the years. Just watching you sob and tear on PDF gives me immense satisfaction.

You can cry and post as many arguments in your defence. Many of us know better.

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## Dalit

gambit said:


> Let US know when Pakistan remodel its military under Taliban model.



Yet the Taliban gave a you a beating of your life. You can mock the Taliban all you like. They defeated you in broad daylight.

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## gambit

Dalit said:


> Yet the Taliban gave a you a beating of your life. You can mock the Taliban all you like. They defeated you in broad daylight.


Sure. If a US aircraft carrier fleet is on the way, the country will trot out their Taliban advisers to scare US off. 



Dalit said:


> When did I say that I cared? You reap what you sow one way or another. Of course I am sitting on my sofa and watching the show unfold. Let me say it in plain words. I want to see you bleed for the wrongdoings you did over the years. Just watching you sob and tear on PDF gives me immense satisfaction.
> 
> You can cry and post as many arguments in your defence. Many of us know better.


Am not the one who is crying, buddy. You are.

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## Dalit

gambit said:


> Sure. If a US aircraft carrier fleet is on the way, the country will trot out their Taliban advisers to scare US off.
> 
> 
> Am not the one who is crying, buddy. You are.



LOL Sure. When are you coming again to face another defeat?

Says the guy who signs into PDF and cries about Ukraine every minute of the day. I have been reading your posts and collecting the tears LOL

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## gambit

Dalit said:


> LOL Sure. When are you coming again to face another defeat?
> 
> Says the guy who signs into PDF and cries about Ukraine every minute of the day. I have been reading your posts and collecting the tears LOL


I challenge you to show how many comments I make about the Ukraine war vs how many you made. The way I see it, you are the one who is really crying here because Russia is not the military power it portrayed itself to be. There are two countries that are currently *PERCEIVED* to be military peers to the US, now one of them just showed how shiddy it really is in actual combat. And the other one have no significant combat experience for the last 50 yrs. Looks like you are going to be crying for a long time. 😭

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547769538174787585

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## kingQamaR

He clearly overestimated his own forces capability and underestimated the west response. His only saviour is nuclear Arsenal because without that it's highly likely that NATO would have gone full on against Russian forces in Ukraine and pursued them deep into Russia and finished them off for good

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547732993434796033

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## Vergennes

Video of the assault on gostomel airport released by RT. Most of the men in this video were killed days/weeks after. @F-22Raptor

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## dbc

MH.Yang said:


> Then I'll tell you a cruel truth:
> Almost all German machinery manufacturing industries rely on cutting tools and other cemented carbide products produced by German Kennametal company.
> While German kennemetal relies on my company, China ZCC.CT group.



duh! China controls 80% of the supply chain for tungsten carbide. Around 50% of the known global reserve is located in China. FYI, this stuff causes cancer and carries other health risks and is bad for the environment. There are massive tungsten deposits of highest grade Tungsten in the US but only one mine in Northwest Utah.

There isn't anything special about tungsten carbide, German reliance on China for the mineral is simply due to China's stranglehold on supply.


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## MH.Yang

dbc said:


> duh! China controls 80% of the supply chain for tungsten carbide. Around 50% of the known global reserve is located in China. FYI, this stuff causes cancer and carries other health risks and is bad for the environment. There are massive tungsten deposits of highest grade Tungsten in the US but only one mine in Northwest Utah.
> 
> There isn't anything special about tungsten carbide, German reliance on China for the mineral is simply due to China's stranglehold on supply.


Not only the resource supply chain, but also the constraints of the industrial chain.

Our company supplies 35% of the world's cemented carbide products, and also controls the upstream supply of 80% of the world's cemented carbide products.

Our company even can instantly paralyze Russia's oil and mining industries. But western countries dare not sanction our company, because we can also paralyze their enterprises.

Western countries dare not even mention our company in the media. China ZCC.CT group.


BTW: Cemented carbide is used to make molds, knives and so on. Cemented carbide is used in the manufacture of every object in human life, from paper, wood, electronic products, metal products and so on, all of which are inseparable from cemented carbide.

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## vizier

NotSure said:


> Pantsir uses command guided missiles without a own seaker in the head section, that is correct and this is the reason, why it is very cheap and ideal for mass usage. Regarding the exact guidance method, i think they can use different guidance methods.
> 
> Btw: another good videos regarding missile guidance methods:


Yes for slower cheaper rockets Pantsyr can handle with low cost and high accuracy but larger faster ones like Himars Buk-M3 has better specs to do the job I think but Russia doesnt have the quantity. S300s would be too bulky-costly and static and seem to have a slower response time focusing on aircraft.

As the fire continiues there is high chance that other countries would be involved by giving indirect or direct support to Russia in this conflict as well because of their geopolitical alignment and to not to be left alone leaving Russia-China behind which is gradually escalating into an existensial situation for Russia and to not to become a prey later for other powerful countries. Two sides should be guided-pushed to the negotiation table both Ukraine and Russia. Ukraine has legitimate demands obviously but these can be handled in the negotiation table instead of preconditions and escalating the conflict further with a military solution that has no ends.

For example Crimea was passed forward and back between Russia and Ukraine respectively in its history. It has a unique status. In exchange of Eu membership and economic benefits Ukraine can be more flexible to step back from initial standpoint about Crimea in my opinion. Costs of war for Eu is much higher than rebuilding-integrating Ukraine to Eu and it has strategic ports like Odessa and strategic prodution capabilities like grain. It is understandable for Ukraine to not give up its lands like Donetsk,Luhansk regions. For those areas a temporary solution can be found out with an open door to restart the Minsk process say after 5 years time. They can give autonomy to those areas and on paper they will still be included to Ukraine later on as Ukraine is rebuilt integrated into Eu those areas would also want to be integrated with Ukraine. Maybe they can be better off with a new leadership in Russia say 5-10 years time make new agreements to restart the Minsk process and sanctions will be lifted from Russia completely as a benefit for them fixing relations with Europe. Russia would retreat from Mikolaev,Kherson and Zaporizhia because Ukraine acceptance of Crimean situation and Un peace keeping forces can be stationed there for a period of several years. These are only examples coming to my mind. Most if not all of the land can be gained back on the negotiation table except maybe Crimea which had always a special status in its history. So I think it would be wiser for Eu countries which also are effected economically from this ongoing conflict to guide Ukraine to negotation table.

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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> He clearly overestimated his own forces capability and underestimated the west response. His only saviour is nuclear Arsenal because without that it's highly likely that NATO would have gone full on against Russian forces in Ukraine and pursued them deep into Russia and finished them off for good


Interesting to know if Putin has the sole authority to start a nuclear war. If happens that will be the end of human race. Maybe some primitive folks in southern pacific would survive.

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Interesting to know if Putin has the sole authority to start a nuclear war. If happens that will be the end of human race. Maybe some primitive folks in southern pacific would survive.


The only country that has ever used a nuclear bomb is the USA. 

And nuclear weapons are not as terrible as legend. Even if all nuclear weapons are used, mankind will not be extinct. At most, human civilization will retrogress for a period of time. 

In addition, hundreds of millions of Chinese people will certainly survive. We have the best large-scale refuge facilities in the world.

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## vizier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547693357941415936


That is why if they dont have air superiority they need at least two static deployed mobile sam sites for protecting the same area with a reasonable shoot-scoot ability in that area. When one of them is scanning other should be moving and then the other deploys taking on the scanning duty and the other moves repeating the process. Even that does not guarantee that within that timeframe a cruise missile attack can be made to those static positions.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> The US/West hasn't won a thing. Russia is doing its thing and moving on without breaking a sweat.
> 
> 
> 
> The US couldn't win in Afghanistan. You are not as powerful and invincible as you think you are. Russia is doing a terrific job compared to US/NATO performance in Afghanistan. It took US/NATO 20 years to accept defeat and run from Afghanistan. Something the entire world had already predicted years ago. At least in Ukraine the world can see that Russia is making progress despite losses and being slow.




Russia has already lost strategically. They are in a much worse position today than back in February. Massive military losses, economic decline, NATO expansion. All at minimal cost to the US. 

And what Russian progress? They control less territory now than in April  


The US achieved its main goal of destroying Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. It overthrew the Taliban in a month and controlled the country for 20 years. We left on our own accord, because we refused to hold the hands of the Afghans anymore. The US could have stayed ad infinitum.

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## dbc

MH.Yang said:


> Our company even can instantly paralyze Russia's oil and mining industries. But western countries dare not sanction our company, because we can also paralyze their enterprises.



hardly, Russia has enough to meet its own needs. They also have the ability to recycle and repurpose for exigencies. China has the advantage of cheaper labor and economies of scale. If China stops supply the rest of the world will recalibrate after a brief period of pain.



https://www.researchgate.net/figure/World-map-of-main-W-world-deposit-W-mines-W-producers-and-countries-with-significant_fig2_340709529

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## MH.Yang

dbc said:


> hardly, Russia has enough to meet its own needs. They also have the ability to recycle and repurpose for exigencies. China has the advantage of cheaper labor and economies of scale. If China stops supply the rest of the world will recalibrate after a brief period of pain.


This is called cemented carbide electrode, which is used in the surfacing process of petroleum machinery.






This is called diamond composite, which is used for oil and mining machinery bits.






And shield teeth, tunneling teeth and so on. There are tens of thousands kinds of cemented carbide consumables in the oil and mining industry.











Therefore, mining and petroleum machinery replace these consumables almost every day. Almost all consumables for the Russian oil and mining industry come from our company. Of course, western enterprises and Middle Eastern enterprises are the same.

Most importantly, many oil and mining machinery need overhaul and maintenance after being out of service for a week, and overhaul after being out of service for a month. If you stop using it for a year, you'd better buy a new machine.

It is precisely because our company has a monopoly position and is in the key link of the production chain. Even in Trump's craziest period, he never dared to mention our company's name in the entity list or even in his speech.

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## Abid123

Dalit said:


> LOL Sure. When are you coming again to face another defeat?
> 
> Says the guy who signs into PDF and cries about Ukraine every minute of the day. I have been reading your posts and collecting the tears LOL


He is not even American born. Actually a refugee from Vietnam😂

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## Han Patriot

MH.Yang said:


> This is called cemented carbide electrode, which is used in the surfacing process of petroleum machinery.
> 
> View attachment 862064
> 
> 
> This is called diamond composite, which is used for oil and mining machinery bits.
> 
> View attachment 862065
> 
> 
> And shield teeth, tunneling teeth and so on. There are tens of thousands kinds of cemented carbide consumables in the oil and mining industry.
> 
> View attachment 862066
> 
> 
> View attachment 862067
> 
> 
> Therefore, mining and petroleum machinery replace these consumables almost every day. Almost all consumables for the Russian oil and mining industry come from our company. Of course, western enterprises and Middle Eastern enterprises are the same.
> 
> Most importantly, many oil and mining machinery need overhaul and maintenance after being out of service for a week, and overhaul after being out of service for a month. If you stop using it for a year, you'd better buy a new machine.


Are you working for COSL, I know they were selling drillheads to Halliburton and Baker Hughes too.


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## MH.Yang

Han Patriot said:


> Are you working for COSL, I know they were selling drillheads to Halliburton and Baker Hughes too.


I work in Zhuzhou ZCC.CT group in Hunan Province(the 601 factory). I am a foreign trade manager.
COSL drill bits are usually from Yueqing City, Zhejiang Province. However, most of the materials (tungsten rods) of Zhejiang Yueqing come from our subsidiaries. The milling cutter of COSL comes from another subsidiary of our company. Their thermal insulation materials come from a private enterprise in our city, and the materials of this enterprise also come from our company.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> The only country that has ever used a nuclear bomb is the USA.
> 
> And nuclear weapons are not as terrible as legend. Even if all nuclear weapons are used, mankind will not be extinct. At most, human civilization will retrogress for a period of time.
> 
> In addition, hundreds of millions of Chinese people will certainly survive. We have the best large-scale refuge facilities in the world.


I hope you have enough foods for years in your best bunkers. I don’t know if it’s worth to live in nuclear desert. Maybe the EU should copy the Swiss. every house has a bunker. The Swiss are ready for armageddon.


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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> I hope you have enough foods for years in your best bunkers. I don’t know if it’s worth to live in nuclear desert. In Swiss almost every house has a bunker.


Yes, I know Westerners like to build bunkers for their families.

Chinese people are different. Chinese people usually like big projects. So we like to build bunkers for the whole city.

At present, the asylum projects in all cities in China can accommodate 400million people.


BTW: 50% of the global grain reserves are in China.








China hoards over half the world's grain, pushing up global prices


Testy ties with U.S. and Australia could be prodding China to boost food reserves




asia.nikkei.com




















In addition, China's asylum project can accommodate not only residents, but also factories. ZCC.CT has some workshops and warehouses underground. The underground factory connects the main refuge project of the city through an underground railway channel.

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Yet the Taliban gave a you a beating of your life. You can mock the Taliban all you like. They defeated you in broad daylight.


Ehmm utter bullshit.

Taliban did not win 1 standoff battle against Nato. Let alone broad daylight. 
Even with a few thousand troops left things were stable. 

Hiding in caves and between civilians. Guerilla attacks. And a lot of patience. Thats was their victory

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## CrazyZ

War is going pretty much as I expected. Russia is winning gradually......but NATO will make it pay a pound of flesh for any gains. Russia withstood economic sanctions. Europe and USA are headed for recession. Ukraine is ruined.

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## ZeGerman

ZeGerman said:


> Ehmm utter bullshit.
> 
> Taliban did not win 1 standoff battle against Nato. Let alone broad daylight.
> Even with a few thousand troops left things were stable.
> 
> Hiding in caves and between civilians. Guerilla attacks. And a lot of patience. Thats was their victory


And before you come with your baseless dribble again. 


Statistics do not lie








Soldiers killed in action in Afghanistan 2001-2021 | Statista


The number of soldiers killed in Afghanistan in 2021 amounted to 13 from the Western coalition, as of October 2021.




www.statista.com





We were in situation where coalition was having 25 fatalities a year….what a “humiliation”…what a “defeat”…
Instead We were simply tired of spending billions and literally holding hands of ANA. 

We left them to finally fight for themselves .
After 20 years training and with a bigger army then ukraine which had only 8 years training. 
Yet they ran for the hills against a few thousand taliban while ukraine is holding its own against 200.000 russians. 

The afghans just had no motive to fight for anything we though was worth fighting for. 
Culture clash. We could have stayed another 20 years and the end result would have been the same.

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## CrazyZ

ZeGerman said:


> And before you come with your baseless dribble again.
> 
> 
> Statistics do not lie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soldiers killed in action in Afghanistan 2001-2021 | Statista
> 
> 
> The number of soldiers killed in Afghanistan in 2021 amounted to 13 from the Western coalition, as of October 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.statista.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We were in situation where coalition was having 25 fatalities a year….what a “humiliation”…what a “defeat”…
> Instead We were simply tired of spending billions and literally holding hands of ANA.
> 
> We left them to finally fight for themselves .
> After 20 years training and with a bigger army then ukraine which had only 8 years training.
> Yet they ran for the hills against a few thousand taliban while ukraine is holding its own against 200.000 russians.
> 
> The afghans just had no motive to fight for anything we though was worth fighting for.
> Culture clash. We could have stayed another 20 years and the end result would have been the same.


You really can not compare Ukraine war to Afghanistan war. But I will say that the Talibans 10 day rout of the ANA was a huge defeat for USA, NATO and Quad. No way to sugar coat it. The Afghan communist forces fought for years with little help from Moscow after the USSR withdrew. ANA collapsed in 2 weeks......how do you think this was percieved in Moscow and other parts of the world?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547965132000530434
First M270 has arrived to Ukraine

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

ZeGerman said:


> Ehmm utter bullshit.
> 
> Taliban did not win 1 standoff battle against Nato. Let alone broad daylight.
> Even with a few thousand troops left things were stable.
> 
> Hiding in caves and between civilians. Guerilla attacks. And a lot of patience. Thats was their victory



What are you talking about Taliban controlled 25% of Afghanistan while NATO was there. They held many pockets.

Taliban just ran NATO for dry and exhausted them plus the terrain was not ideal for the US. IEA was ready for a 100-year campaign which NATO doesn't want any of it otherwise they can go back for a straight out 100-year war.. It almost lead to US economy crisis and if continued could lead to US economy collapse. The Afghans arms are cheap and logisics it doesn't cost them much unlike the US that uses 50-bilion a year..

IEA greatest asset is patience and consistency.. These bastards can go 100-years easy

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## Valar.

ZeGerman said:


> Ehmm utter bullshit.
> 
> Taliban did not win 1 standoff battle against Nato. Let alone broad daylight.
> Even with a few thousand troops left things were stable.
> 
> Hiding in caves and between civilians. Guerilla attacks. And a lot of patience. Thats was their victory



You need to learn the difference between Battle and War.

Nato won battle, infact battles, every single one of them probably.

But Taliban won the war.

Nato came to throw Taliban out of power.

But 2 decades later, Nato left Afghanistan with Taliban in power again.

Nato lose the war even after winning all the battles.

Taliban won the war even after losing all the battles.

The end.

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## F-22Raptor

Valar. said:


> You need to learn the difference between Battle and War.
> 
> Nato won battle, infact battles, every single one of them probably.
> 
> But Taliban won the war.
> 
> Nato came to throw Taliban out of power.
> 
> But 2 decades later, Nato left Afghanistan with Taliban in power again.
> 
> Nato lose the war even after winning all the battles.
> 
> Taliban won the war even after losing all the battles.
> 
> The end.



The US could have stayed ad infinitum in Afghanistan. It was the Afghan Army that failed, not the US. We weren't going to hold their hands forever. Eventually, Afghans had to take responsibility for their own country. They failed.

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## zartosht

sammuel said:


> Seriously ?
> 
> M777 is considered one of the best towed artillery , one of the reasons that it weighs almost half than other towed armillary of the same caliber.
> 
> 
> " they have to constantly take them back to poland for shrapnel repairs as they are extremely prone to counter-battery fire "
> 
> Are you going to stand behind this statement ? You want to argue that the m777 is more " prone " to counter-battery fire " than other models ? What is that ?
> 
> If anything , the m777 is more light weight , and can be more easily be moved after fire . compared to other towed armillary.
> 
> ~



There are 6 components to it according to a ukrainian general. And they are extremely fragile, maintenance intensive. 

It might work for western countries who fight defensless afghans. And have complete air dominance and no worry of counter battery fire. 

A real war is exposing western weapons weaknesses, and fanboys are having a heart attack. 



jhungary said:


> Well, you are trying to argue military sense to people who say "Ukraine can't retake land because they have light infantry only"
> 
> There are no sense to talk about when their reference point is a computer game.......



General jhungary. I know a phd colonel who heads the research department of the austrian army is waaaaaaaaaay below your internet credentials. 

But try to humour him, as he is trying, and not everyone can be as brilliant as you

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## TheNoob

F-22Raptor said:


> The US could have stayed ad infinitum in Afghanistan. It was the Afghan Army that failed, not the US. We weren't going to hold their hands forever. Eventually, Afghans had to take responsibility for their own country. They failed.



Destroy a country, make a puppet system, and once that puppet system fails, you blame it on the people. 
I guess all that hash really do be getting to your head.

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Ehmm utter bullshit.
> 
> Taliban did not win 1 standoff battle against Nato. Let alone broad daylight.
> Even with a few thousand troops left things were stable.
> 
> Hiding in caves and between civilians. Guerilla attacks. And a lot of patience. Thats was their victory



It doesn't matter whether they beat you by hiding or sitting in caves. They beat you and you had to run. The entire world witnessed it.

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## MH.Yang

F-22Raptor said:


> The US could have stayed ad infinitum in Afghanistan. It was the Afghan Army that failed, not the US. We weren't going to hold their hands forever. Eventually, Afghans had to take responsibility for their own country. They failed.


The US could have stayed ad infinitum in Vietnam. It was the Vietnam Army that failed, not the US. We weren't going to hold their hands forever. Eventually, Vietnam had to take responsibility for their own country. They failed.

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## Valar.

F-22Raptor said:


> The US could have stayed ad infinitum in Afghanistan. It was the Afghan Army that failed, not the US. We weren't going to hold their hands forever. Eventually, Afghans had to take responsibility for their own country. They failed.



If Nato had left by putting Afghan civilian/puppet govt in power backed by Afghan Army and Taliban had defeated them a year or two later then and only then you could have said that hey we didn't lose but Afghan Army lose. But hey, that didn't happen. Taliban took control when Nato was still physically present in Afghanistan. If anything, Taliban actually helped you evacuate Afghanistan. 

___
Anyway, let's get back to topic which is Ukraine/Russia war.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has already lost strategically. They are in a much worse position today than back in February. Massive military losses, economic decline, NATO expansion. All at minimal cost to the US.
> 
> And what Russian progress? They control less territory now than in April
> 
> 
> The US achieved its main goal of destroying Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. It overthrew the Taliban in a month and controlled the country for 20 years. We left on our own accord, because we refused to hold the hands of the Afghans anymore. The US could have stayed ad infinitum.



Is that why you sign into PDF every single day and spend hours convincing others how much the US/NATO has won?

You didn't achieve a fvcking thing. Your fat *** generals cried like babies when the Taliban took over US equipment in broad daylight and your soldiers were sitting in planes ready to exit Afghanistan. LOL You are so pathetic that you had to beg a country called Pakistan to protect your Afghan interpreters. The same country the US/NATO blamed for 20 years for losses in Afghanistan. You can lie all day long, but people have eyes, ears and memories.

Now let's get back to Russia. Russia is nailing you in Ukraine every minute of the day. All you can do is send some insignificant weapons to Ukraine. You won't send your soldiers to Ukraine because you know the outcome. We know how your faces look right now. Swollen and defeated you sit behind that keyboard typing away demoralised.

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## dbc

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> What are you talking about Taliban controlled 25% of Afghanistan while NATO was there. They held many pockets.
> 
> Taliban just ran NATO for dry and exhausted them plus the terrain was not ideal for the US. IEA was ready for a 100-year campaign which NATO doesn't want any of it otherwise they can go back for a straight out 100-year war.. It almost lead to US economy crisis and if continued could lead to US economy collapse. The Afghans arms are cheap and logisics it doesn't cost them much unlike the US that uses 50-bilion a year..
> 
> IEA greatest asset is patience and consistency.. These bastards can go 100-years easy



NATO forces had no desire to hold territory in the boonies. They did go in and clear Taliban fighters from remote villages and then RTB, after a few months the Taliban would reappear ....rinse and repeat for two decades. The reality is Afghanistan isn't a real country, its people don't even buy into the notion of Afghanistan, its just a collection of tribes that want to be left alone. Nation building in Afghanistan was a fools errand, it took us twenty years to figure that out. And at no point was the US economy at risk of collapse due to Afghanistan.

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## F-22Raptor

dbc said:


> NATO forces had no desire to hold territory in the boonies. They did go in and clear Taliban fighters from remote villages and then RTB, after a few months the Taliban would reappear ....rinse and repeat for two decades. The reality is Afghanistan isn't a real country, its people don't even buy into the notion of Afghanistan, its just a collection of tribes that want to be left alone. Nation building in Afghanistan was a fools errand, it took us twenty years to figure that out. And at no point was the US economy at risk of collapse due to Afghanistan.




Regardless, the US achieved its main goal of destroying Al Qaeda. Afghan is a failure due to its people.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Regardless, the US achieved its main goal of destroying Al Qaeda. Afghan is a failure due to its people.



Sure. Now blame the Afghans... For 20 years you fooled the Afghans just like you fooled the Kurds and all other minions you have. That is your policy. You ditch nations and peoples after exploiting them. Even the Ukrainians are sick and tired of false promises by the US/NATO. You haven't delivered on your promises. Worse, you broke the promises.

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## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> Regardless, the US achieved its main goal of destroying Al Qaeda. Afghan is a failure due to its people.



No, Afghanistan is a failure because NATO supported the fake mujahideen in the 1980s, then the Taliban from 1996 to 2001 and then again enabled the Taliban to come to power last year. The progressive and rational poeple of Afghanistan reject NATO and Taliban.


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## MH.Yang

F-22Raptor said:


> Regardless, the US achieved its main goal of destroying Al Qaeda. Afghan is a failure due to its people.


Let's be honest. The Taliban can survive and grow under the strangulation of the U.S. military for more than 20 years. They must have the general support and help of the Afghan people. 

And the USA spent so much resources but was hated by Afghans, which is failure. 

Has the U.S. govt ever thought that only bread and work can defeat the Taliban, not drones and bombs.

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## Dalit

MH.Yang said:


> Let's be honest. The Taliban can survive and grow under the strangulation of the U.S. military for more than 20 years. They must have the general support and help of the Afghan people.
> 
> And the USA spent so much resources but was hated by Afghans, which is failure.
> 
> Has the U.S. govt ever thought that only bread and work can defeat the Taliban, not drones and bombs.



These Americans and Europeans are crazy. They don't even know why they fight. After 20 years this was always the question on the mind of every soldier.

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## F-22Raptor

You see the difference between the Ukrainians and Afghans. The Ukrainians fight for their future and integration with the West. The Afghans would rather live in backwardness and poverty. Afghanistan is a failure because of its people.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> You see the difference between the Ukrainians and Afghans. The Ukrainians fight for their future and integration with the West. The Afghans would rather live in backwardness and poverty. Afghanistan is a failure because of its people.



Just say it. The Afghans didn't fight your war.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Just say it. The Afghans didn't fight your war.



They'd rather beg for Green Cards than fight for their own country.

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## Abid123

F-22Raptor said:


> They'd rather beg for Green Cards than fight for their own country.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547992158514188290

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547992158514188290



At this rate Russians will be totally pushed out of Ukraine and Donbas & Crimea will return under Ukranian control by the end of summer 2022. Russians are no match to the US & NATO.

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Sure. Now blame the Afghans... For 20 years you fooled the Afghans just like you fooled the Kurds and all other minions you have. That is your policy. You ditch nations and peoples after exploiting them. Even the Ukrainians are sick and tired of false promises by the US/NATO. You haven't delivered on your promises. Worse, you broke the promises.


In history had never been more money put into building up a defeated country as in afghanistan.
Life expectancy, literacy, education, all increased because of that.
They were left an army and weaponry that dwarfed the taliban. Eventually they have to fight for themselves.

But apparentely education for their daughters was not enough motivation to fight.
How different are things with the ukranians. 


So again. Where is the “humilitation”???undefeated in battle. Losing almost no soldiers and controlling the vast population centres with a modest force???
But simply failing to motivate the afghans to resist taliban?

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## ZeGerman

No


MH.Yang said:


> Let's be honest. The Taliban can survive and grow under the strangulation of the U.S. military for more than 20 years. They must have the general support and help of the Afghan people.
> 
> And the USA spent so much resources but was hated by Afghans, which is failure.
> 
> Has the U.S. govt ever thought that only bread and work can defeat the Taliban, not drones and bombs


Drones and bombs is simplifying it. We spend many millions on schools, elections, roads, clean drinking water, hospitals. 

The strategic failure was the assumption that the western way of life was superior, and that as such all would (once free to choose) naturally gravitate towards it.

Kick out the dictator and the people would rush towards a moderate pro western democracy!!!! 
That didnt happen.

Instead we were stuck with ANA fighters shooting nato trainers on a bad day, trying to stop them from selling all their weapons. Stop them from their tradition of “bacha bazi”. 
Check the documentary “this is what winning looks like”. Its great. And shows the completely failed effort to build a democratic state and functioning army.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548010300842004482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548012610569654277

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548016786188079104


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## sammuel

ZeGerman said:


> In history had never been more money put into building up a defeated country as in afghanistan.
> Life expectancy, literacy, education, all increased because of that.
> They were left an army and weaponry that dwarfed the taliban. Eventually they have to fight for themselves.
> 
> But apparentely education for their daughters was not enough motivation to fight.
> How different are things with the ukranians.
> 
> 
> So again. Where is the “humilitation”???undefeated in battle. Losing almost no soldiers and controlling the vast population centres with a modest force???
> But simply failing to motivate the afghans to resist taliban?




It is more than understandable that after staying there for 20 years the Americans pulled out.

But those you argue with here, would criticize to US either way. If they stayed they would say they where occupying Afghanistan. If they leave - they desert the Afghan people to the Taliban.

What is not understandable is how some are so blinded by hate to the US , that they Are willing to see a nation of 80 million people ruined.

Ukraine who most who commented here, probably never had any dealing with or issues in the past , still they would like to see it destroyed to satisfy some thirst to see US fail.

Why should Ukraine pay the price for that ?




~

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548010706477297664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548014826240110592


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548024667297832967

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548028914810769410


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## gambit

F-22Raptor said:


> You see the difference between the Ukrainians and Afghans. The Ukrainians fight for their future and integration with the West. The Afghans would rather live in backwardness and poverty. *Afghanistan is a failure because of its people.*


Correct.

No amount of money, for food or education or weapons, can change the country if the people is either unwilling and/or unable to change. The world, not just Americans, is now %99.999 convinced that the Afghanis failed their country. Compare to Viet Nam? Intel is in Viet Nam, is Toshiba going to be in Afghanistan? Ukraine is more an advanced country with a more sophisticated people than Afghanistan. Politically incorrect? Yes. True? Also yes. So which is more important, the hurt feelings or the truth? The Vietnam War ended poorly for both Viet Nam and the US. It took 50 yrs but like it or not, the Viets just tread their collective toes into the US sphere of influence.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

ZeGerman said:


> In history had never been more money put into building up a defeated country as in afghanistan.
> Life expectancy, literacy, education, all increased because of that.
> They were left an army and weaponry that dwarfed the taliban. Eventually they have to fight for themselves.
> 
> But apparentely education for their daughters was not enough motivation to fight.
> How different are things with the ukranians.
> 
> 
> So again. Where is the “humilitation”???undefeated in battle. Losing almost no soldiers and controlling the vast population centres with a modest force???
> But simply failing to motivate the afghans to resist taliban?



The soviet union collapsed due to Afghanistan.. And you got defeated there is no excuse in that... But in your defense tho it was an extreme terrain which is probably the major underlaying reason and had the terrain been different it would have been a walk in the park for ze-americans.. It takes out heavy weaponry out of the picture.. You gotta go on foot to the wilderness and mountains.

IEA easily outlasted NATO just like the Soviet and just like how they did that previously against the British. What they do it is not a fluke but measured.. If you do it once it can be labelled a fluke but not if you do it 3 times in row..

They are good in the wear and tear with a good longevity capability...

If Ukraine lacks any form of longevity the Russians will win.. In my honest opinion they should breach themselves for a long-azz fight in this way they may actully win.. But most of the ukrainians are showing signs of fatigue..

If you wanna win learn from these with experience the secret lays in longevity... Afghanistan technically liberated Ukraine in the 90s

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## Lehrasap

F-22Raptor said:


> You see the difference between the Ukrainians and Afghans. The Ukrainians fight for their future and integration with the West. The Afghans would rather live in backwardness and poverty. Afghanistan is a failure because of its people.



Exactly. 

Ukraine will never fight with the NATO states of Europe which are helping them.
But the mentality and religion play very negative role in this part, and soon we will see Taliban fighting with other Afghans, and then Taliban will fight with Iran and even with Pakistan. 

Already Taliban supported TTP killed thousands of Pakistanis and also killed thousands of other Afghans.

All the sane Western people should leave places like Afghanistan and Pakistan as they will destroy themselves sooner or later.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Lehrasap said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Ukraine will never fight with the NATO states of Europe which are helping them.
> But the mentality and religion play very negative role in this part, and soon we will see Taliban fighting with other Afghans, and then Taliban will fight with Iran and even with Pakistan.
> 
> Already Taliban supported TTP killed thousands of Pakistanis and also killed thousands of other Afghans.
> 
> All the sane Western people should leave places like Afghanistan and Pakistan as they will destroy themselves sooner or later.



What kind of trash is this bs..

Try to enter into an animals cave and try to take it over you will immediately find yourself in a fight... It is idiotic to assume otherwise even if the other party don't share your opinion..

They are from a different civilization they don't share values with all these folks and they have no intention of doing so..

There is no force each man can keep his own way of life and culture.. But thinking otherwise means first you have low-IQ to understand your surroundings and second of all you are probably deluded...

It is delusional to think or assume everything western civilization is holy bible.. When I see people type shxt like that I see it as if they are either kids like that greek PDF member where the other greeks in this website didn't even like him because he was to young and childish....

----

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## Corax

sammuel said:


> It is more than understandable that after staying there for 20 years the Americans pulled out.
> 
> But those you argue with here, would criticize to US either way. If they stayed they would say they where occupying Afghanistan. If they leave - they desert the Afghan people to the Taliban.
> 
> What is not understandable is how some are so blinded by hate to the US , that they Are willing to see a nation of 80 million people ruined.
> 
> Ukraine who most who commented here, probably never had any dealing with or issues in the past , still they would like to see it destroyed to satisfy some thirst to see US fail.
> 
> Why should Ukraine pay the price for that ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Hypocrite. The US openly state that their policy is to weaken Russia, is the US who is using Ukraine as cannon fodder simply to kill as many Russians as possible. So who is really sacrificing the Ukrainians?

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## oberschlesier

Gazprom cut off the Gas supply to EU.

The storage in EU is at 63.25% and it`s growing with 0.32 % per day.


Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

gambit said:


> Correct.
> 
> No amount of money, for food or education or weapons, can change the country if the people is either unwilling and/or unable to change. The world, not just Americans, is now %99.999 convinced that the Afghanis failed their country. Compare to Viet Nam? Intel is in Viet Nam, is Toshiba going to be in Afghanistan? Ukraine is more an advanced country with a more sophisticated people than Afghanistan. Politically incorrect? Yes. True? Also yes. So which is more important, the hurt feelings or the truth? The Vietnam War ended poorly for both Viet Nam and the US. It took 50 yrs but like it or not, the Viets just tread their collective toes into the US sphere of influence.



LOL

If Ukrainians were Muslims, will NATO support it the same way? The answer is NO. NATO countries rejected Muslim Syrian refugees but accept Christian Ukranian refugees.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

F-22Raptor said:


> You see the difference between the Ukrainians and Afghans. The Ukrainians fight for their future and integration with the West. The Afghans would rather live in backwardness and poverty. Afghanistan is a failure because of its people.



Lmao this is one of the most deluded posts I have come by.... This is so delusional that is boundary less..

People generally can't smell their own shxt perhaps it is time to do it now....

They didn't want your democrazy or whatever you were promoting.. The answer was simple get away.. It is like running into a H-witnesses and they are in your face telling you to give me some mins yada yada while you are busy... The answer is simple just get out of my face... Whatever you believe in or think is good for your people then it is all good... you go do that for yourself but don't bring that shxt to others..

The answer would be ''I am different'' Respect this it is really that simple

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548035888025722880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547979815537455104


----------



## ZeGerman

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> LOL
> 
> If Ukrainians were Muslims, will NATO support it the same way? The answer is NO. NATO countries rejected Muslim Syrian refugees but accept Christian Ukranian refugees.


Nonsence, europe took in well over a million muslim syrians.

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## gambit

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> LOL
> 
> If Ukrainians were Muslims, will NATO support it the same way? The answer is NO. NATO countries rejected Muslim Syrian refugees but accept Christian Ukranian refugees.


Afghanistan and Iraq are Muslims. And look how much money we spent in both countries. You can laugh at US all you want, but in the end, as in what happens *AFTER* we left, the joke will turn away from US and into countries where we supposedly 'failed'.

Intel is in Viet Nam. When will Toshiba, or SMIC, be in Afghanistan or Iraq? Those burqas are not going to work in the cleanrooms.


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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Hypocrite. The US openly state that their policy is to weaken Russia, is the US who is using Ukraine as cannon fodder simply to kill as many Russians as possible. So who is really sacrificing the Ukrainians?



Yes weaken Russia since they are the invaders. No s**t


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Valar. said:


> You need to learn the difference between Battle and War.
> 
> Nato won battle, infact battles, every single one of them probably.
> 
> But Taliban won the war.
> 
> Nato came to throw Taliban out of power.
> 
> But 2 decades later, Nato left Afghanistan with Taliban in power again.
> 
> Nato lose the war even after winning all the battles.
> 
> Taliban won the war even after losing all the battles.
> 
> The end.


NATO came because the Taliban supported terrorists.
The Taliban has now stated that they will no longer support terrorists.
Now, the Taliban is desperately seeking help from the outside because they are incapable of running the country, and seek better relations with the US.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547985394171383812
For all of the macho talk in social media, he got beat up by an ordinary guy. ROFL

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## The SC




----------



## The SC

Russian Defense:
High-precision cruise missiles "Kaliber" hit the building of the military barracks of officers in the city of Vinnytsia on July 14.

Air Force destroys in one day:

Four command posts, three ammunition depots, and a military facility to store fuel as well as manpower and military equipment in 21 regions.
@Cassan_Kozlov


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547979181673263106

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Interesting to know if Putin has the sole authority to start a nuclear war. If happens that will be the end of human race. Maybe some primitive folks in southern pacific would survive.



NATO has 1 billion people. You cannot physically kill more than few percents of that with all nuclear weapons ever made on earth.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547992158514188290





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065559849230338

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## Paul2

MH.Yang said:


> Yes, I know Westerners like to build bunkers for their families.
> 
> Chinese people are different. Chinese people usually like big projects. So we like to build bunkers for the whole city.
> 
> At present, the asylum projects in all cities in China can accommodate 400million people.
> 
> 
> BTW: 50% of the global grain reserves are in China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China hoards over half the world's grain, pushing up global prices
> 
> 
> Testy ties with U.S. and Australia could be prodding China to boost food reserves
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asia.nikkei.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 862077
> 
> View attachment 862078
> 
> View attachment 862079
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, China's asylum project can accommodate not only residents, but also factories. ZCC.CT has some workshops and warehouses underground. The underground factory connects the main refuge project of the city through an underground railway channel.



We are lucky to have a lot of hills, and mountains. We just need to drill Himalayas or Qinling to get nuke proof shelters.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548016786188079104





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547836963595567106
Talk is cheap. The Ukrainians are taking a massive beating and shelling, but I guess that doesn't count in your case.

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## gambit

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Lmao this is one of the most deluded posts I have come by.... This is so delusional that is boundary less..
> 
> People generally can't smell their own shxt perhaps it is time to do it now....
> 
> *They didn't want your democrazy or whatever you were promoting..* The answer was simple get away.. It is like running into a H-witnesses and they are in your face telling you to give me some mins yada yada while you are busy... The answer is simple just get out of my face... Whatever you believe in or think is good for your people then it is all good... you go do that for yourself but don't bring that shxt to others..


Yes, we promoted democracy. But along with that, we also promote wealth, technological advancements, and better living conditions. But it is a wonder why so many chose to come to the West to enjoy those things instead of building those things in their own countries. It is crazy, no?

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## Han Patriot

Valar. said:


> You need to learn the difference between Battle and War.
> 
> Nato won battle, infact battles, every single one of them probably.
> 
> But Taliban won the war.
> 
> Nato came to throw Taliban out of power.
> 
> But 2 decades later, Nato left Afghanistan with Taliban in power again.
> 
> Nato lose the war even after winning all the battles.
> 
> Taliban won the war even after losing all the battles.
> 
> The end.


Exactly, these bozos just don't understand resolve. Ukraine to Russia is like what Kabul is to Afghuanistan. They are willing to fight for decades. US will scram after the first recession.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> At this rate Russians will be totally pushed out of Ukraine and Donbas & Crimea will return under Ukranian control by the end of summer 2022. Russians are no match to the US & NATO.


Lolol

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## The SC

Not lucky who was with Zelensky
@mariadov0

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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Yes, we promoted democracy. But along with that, we also promote wealth, technological advancements, and better living conditions. But it is a wonder why so many chose to come to the West to enjoy those things instead of building those things in their own countries. It is crazy, no?


Democracy? How many died for 'democracy', I don't see you promoting it to the Saudis? Hypocrites, its all about domination and money numb numb. Democracy is sold to dumb masses like you.

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Democracy? How many died for 'democracy', I don't see you promoting it to the Saudis? Hypocrites, its all about domination and money numb numb. Democracy is sold to dumb masses like you.


So when will SMIC invest in Afghanistan?

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Han Patriot said:


> Democracy? How many died for 'democracy', I don't see you promoting it to the Saudis? Hypocrites, its all about domination and money numb numb. Democracy is sold to dumb masses like you.



The guy you replied to is probably an indian.. I know Americans they are not that deluded all tho some of them are in some red states if you go to the rural poor areas you could find incredibly brain-washed hillbillies..

Now that being said. He doesn't even know what his talking about.. He thinks in his mind Democracy equals money

China which has now overtaken the US is not a democracy... Some of the wealthiest countries in the world are not a democrazy.. You got countries like UAE, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Brunei, Bahrain and Kuwait and many more etc etc... India which is technically the poorest country in the world according to the poverty index is suppose to be the largest democracy

GIVE IEA 20-25 years and lets see where they will be economically I think most will be surprised. Just because someone has been thru 40 years of external and internal conflicts you can't say hey look where is this company and that company.. They haven't even celebrated 1 year of peace which will happen on august 15th this year that is their 1st year of peace anniversary.

It is like comparing US post civil war to France back then......

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547875694549405700

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548082537657802756

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547846794473746435

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548080979796930561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548078434605154309

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## The SC

Another good gift to Russia..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548075886548725761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548073651664089093

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548073034883297282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548072468203520003


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548070191883358213

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The SC said:


> Another good gift to Russia..
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548075886548725761
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548073651664089093
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548073034883297282
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548072468203520003



Why should the german leader resign? Is this real news?


----------



## gambit

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> The guy you replied to is probably an indian..


You will be so embarrassed on that...



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Now that being said. He doesn't even know what his talking about.. He thinks in his mind Democracy equals money


But democracy can and have been conducive to wealth and wealth generation. It helps to be democratic.



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> China which has now overtaken the US is not a democracy...


China have not overtaken US. By the way, China got wealthy because of democracy. See if you can figure that one out. If you cannot, then you are no smarter than the Americans you sneered at as you live among them.



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Some of the wealthiest countries in the world are not a democrazy.. You got countries like UAE, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Brunei, Bahrain and Kuwait and many more etc etc...


So when will SMIC invests in any of those countries. You falsely associate wealth with sophistication.

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## The SC

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Why should the german leader resign? Is this real news?


The same real news as in the UK and Italy.. he contradicts himself too much..

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

gambit said:


> You falsely associate wealth with sophistication.









We are going towards troll tier.. It is becoming unfunny..

By the way China is open to capitalism but they are not democratic and far from it and I would rather say it is meritocracy and by the way also not communism or atleast not fully maybe in small percentage..

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## _Nabil_

@F-22Raptor , great job posting all those jokes, this is making the thread really funny to read 😂🤣

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548070006415433728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548069545646047232

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548010300842004482
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548012610569654277




Talk is cheap. Ukraine is getting beaten in the battle field. 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548045478108901379


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548016786188079104




Your HIMARS are getting taken out by Russia's missile attacks to the point where Western propagandists are having a meltdown. 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548047035797909506

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548042897085198336


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548010706477297664
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548014826240110592





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548034712811106308

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547992158514188290



Cope! 👇


https://****/Slavyangrad/3086

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## gambit

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> We are going towards troll tier.. It is becoming unfunny..
> 
> By the way China is open to capitalism but they are not democratic and far from it and I would rather say it is meritocracy and by the way also not communism or atleast not fully maybe in small percentage..


I said that China got wealthy because of democracy and as I expected, you did not get it despite the clues I gave before that question. You ain't that smart. No smarter than the redneck hillbilly Americans you sneered at.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547759332229402631

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548075683879931905

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Cope! 👇
> 
> 
> https://****/Slavyangrad/3086
> View attachment 862222




The US military has already confirmed these reports to be disinformation just like that video was confirmed to be false. 

HIMARS are wrecking Russia. That’s the reality.

Russia controls less territory than in April. That’s the reality. 

Stop spreading Russian disinformation

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548064991022002178


F-22Raptor said:


> The US military has already confirmed these reports to be disinformation just like that video was confirmed to be false.
> 
> HIMARS are wrecking Russia. That’s the reality.
> 
> Russia controls less territory than in April. That’s the reality.
> 
> Stop spreading Russian disinformation



No, Michael. You're the one who is running with the "disinformation". Russians liberated the whole Lugansk People's Republic (LPR), and you want to convince people they lost territory? What are you smoking? No rationale person here is gonna fall for that crap.

But at the end, whatever that rocks your boat, Michael. 👇







Your buddy James Vasquez got beat up today in a NY subway.  You didn't even bother helping him out. Just like him, you're all talk and don't dare facing the Russian Spetsnaz.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547986529535987714

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548099884909137923

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548088892619776001

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548064991022002178
> 
> 
> No, Michael. You're the one who is running with the "disinformation". Russians liberated the whole Lugansk People's Republic (LPR), and you want to convince people they lost territory? What are you smoking? No rationale person here is gonna fall for that crap.
> 
> But at the end, whatever that rocks your boat, Michael. 👇
> 
> View attachment 862224
> 
> 
> 
> Your buddy James Vasquez got beat up today in a NY subway.  You didn't even bother helping him out. Just like him, you're all talk and don't dare facing the Russian Spetsnaz.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547986529535987714





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546433348809154560

Yes Russia has lost territory, a lot of it in fact. But I can’t blame you, if I was a Russian bootlicker Id want to forget the first couple months of the war too.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548107633613086720

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546433348809154560
> 
> Yes Russia has lost territory, a lot of it in fact. But I can’t blame you, if I was a Russian bootlicker Id want to forget the first couple months of the war too.




The 40-km long column of Russian vehicles that went near Kiev was a diversionary tactic, you weirdo. It has served its purpose: In order to defend Kiev, Ukrainians pulled huge resources from south and eastern Ukraine. This is how Russians quickly seized Kherson and other towns and cities in the South.

Once the South was put in its place, those Russian forces were pulled from Kiev and were used to reinforce the other Russian forces in the East. So it worked. But an arm-chair warrior like you don't get it because you believe in your own propaganda.

And most importantly, the different ways the Russian command were shifting their forces allowed them to pin down the most professional and battle-hardened Ukrainian forces in the East and parts of the South (i.e., Mariupol, etc) to the point where roughly 176,000 Ukrainian troops were either killed or badly wounded to the point where they're off the battle-field. 

Meanwhile, keep throwing around your "muh Himars" stories as if a dozen of those will change the outcome of the war. The Russians are eviscerating the Ukrainian forces on their path. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548110301073063938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548099884909137923

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548033889662148610

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The 40-km long column of Russian vehicles that went near Kiev was a diversionary tactic, you weirdo. It has served its purpose: In order to defend Kiev, Ukrainians pulled huge resources from south and eastern Ukraine. This is how Russians quickly seized Kherson and other towns and cities in the South.
> 
> Once the South was put in its place, those Russian forces were pulled from Kiev and were used to reinforce the other Russian forces in the East. So it worked. But an arm-chair warrior like you don't get it because you believe in your own propaganda.
> 
> And most importantly, the different ways the Russian command were shifting their forces allowed them to pin down the most professional and battle-hardened Ukrainian forces in the East and parts of the South (i.e., Mariupol, etc) to the point where roughly 176,000 Ukrainian troops were either killed or badly wounded to the point where they're off the battle-field.
> 
> Meanwhile, keep throwing around your "muh Himars" stories as if a dozen of those will change the outcome of the war. The Russians are eviscerating anything the Ukrainian forces on their path. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548110301073063938
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548099884909137923
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548033889662148610




You don’t fly in your paratroopers to Hostomel airport in the first couple days for a diversionary tactic. They moved on Kyiv quickly to overthrow the Ukrainian government and setup air and resupply operations. The Russians got annihilated at Kyiv. The thousands of losses in both equipment and manpower says another story. The amount of Russian barbecue boys and armor that were getting fried everyday in March was a sight to behold.

It wasn’t a diversionary tactic. It was an annihilation.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> NATO has 1 billion people. You cannot physically kill more than few percents of that with all nuclear weapons ever made on earth.


Hundreds millions will be killed by direct nuclear hits. the nuclear fallout is worse, will kill 90 people of world population.


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> You don’t fly in your paratroopers to Hostomel airport in the first couple days for a diversionary tactic. They moved on Kyiv quickly to overthrow the Ukrainian government and setup air and resupply operations. The Russians got annihilated at Kyiv. The thousands of losses in both equipment and manpower says another story. The amount of Russian barbecue boys and armor that were getting fried everyday in March was a sight to behold.
> 
> It wasn’t a diversionary tactic. It was an annihilation.


the Russians under Putin become oriental people. It’s all about face. Admit something they do wrong is impossible. They rather jump off the window. Europeans recognize errors, mistakes. they learn from it and move on.
Probably the most critical moment in Ukraine history. By any assessment If those initial paratroopers successfully took control of the airport Hostomel, they would capture the president palace, killing Zelinskki, then the war would be over in 2 or 3 days.
But now seems Putin invasion army is on losing footing. The US long range artillery wrecks havocs on Russia troops, morale and depots.


----------



## khansaheeb

MH.Yang said:


> Yes, I know Westerners like to build bunkers for their families.
> 
> Chinese people are different. Chinese people usually like big projects. So we like to build bunkers for the whole city.
> 
> At present, the asylum projects in all cities in China can accommodate 400million people.
> 
> 
> BTW: 50% of the global grain reserves are in China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China hoards over half the world's grain, pushing up global prices
> 
> 
> Testy ties with U.S. and Australia could be prodding China to boost food reserves
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asia.nikkei.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 862077
> 
> View attachment 862078
> 
> View attachment 862079
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, China's asylum project can accommodate not only residents, but also factories. ZCC.CT has some workshops and warehouses underground. The underground factory connects the main refuge project of the city through an underground railway channel.


You are a woman???


----------



## F-22Raptor

Viet said:


> the Russians under Putin become oriental people. It’s all about face. Admit something they do wrong is impossible. They rather jump off the window. Europeans recognize errors, mistakes. they learn from it and move on.
> Probably the most critical moment in Ukraine history. By any assessment If those initial paratroopers successfully took control of the airport Hostomel, they would capture the president palace, killing Zelinskki, then the war would be over in 2 or 3 days.
> But now seems Putin invasion army is on losing footing. The US long range artillery wrecks havocs on Russia troops, morale and depots.



CIA Director Burns warned the Ukrainians about Hostomel. The Russians were flying into a trap. Most of those paratroopers you see in those videos are now dead.


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> CIA Director Burns warned the Ukrainians about Hostomel. The Russians were flying into a trap. Most of those paratroopers you see in those videos are now dead.


the Russians probably buy cheap communications hardware from China otherwise it’s not understandable how can the US decipher Russia military communications. Biden said days before the actual invasion happened “Putin has made the decision to go to war”.

The himars seems Turing the tide like the US stinger in Afghanistan war against the Soviet Union.
Russia shellings are reduced significantly.







If compared to previous situation before delivery of himars

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548166948428533763

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## MH.Yang

khansaheeb said:


> You are a woman???


?


----------



## Gomig-21

Wait what? No way, come on lol...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548038776139591682

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## sadoarange

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548166948428533763


thanks!


----------



## Soldier35

Russian troops launched a massive missile attack on the Ukrainian Yuzhmash plant in Dnepropetrovsk






Испытания ружья против дронов ЛПД-801 России на Украине

The Russian militia conducted real tests in Ukraine of the Russian gun against LPD-801 drones from the PPSh Laboratory company. Judging by the results, the anti-drone gun really works on most popular commercial drones. The gun suppresses communication channels and data transmission from the UAV, and also suppresses navigation channels. The effective range of suppressing drones is up to 1 km, the gun is on sale, the cost at the moment is $ 19,500.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> True, I mentioned targeting trains and the train stations before they start distributing to all parts of the regions. Targeting the main artery. Still need ATACMS as well to target Sevastopol and other supply depots that's a little further beyond the frontlines.
> 
> Figure they would still continue using artillery and missile attacks while they are on a pause with the rest of the troops and mechanized units because not sure why they would pause firing artillery unless it was disrupted so they just firing what they have now but with more missiles instead.


I would not care about Crimea that much, if the Ukrainian want to launch attack, they could have done it with TB-2 Drone or like when they attack the Russian refinery by sending a pair of Black Mi-24 for it. 

The current plan for Ukraine as far as I can see it is that it want to roll back Kherson and Zaporizhzhia all the way back to Crimea, and then have the Russia either break off from the East to reinforce Crimea or try to have more troop and resource to flow back to it. 

What the Ukraine want to do is to keep on the Eastern Defence but maximize Southern gain, the way they are attacking Supply depot in and around Melitopol and Kherson suggest a major counteroffensive is coming to the region. And the Ukrainian would want a unified frontline rather than having to defend both Southern and Eastern part of the country.

The Russian Southern steam have been culminated for months now. There are no offensive power left in the Kherson region. Basically its now or never.



Corax said:


> You're a joke and fake...I think enough people see that already. But keep peddling your BS.


Sure, I am a joke, if that's so, you are less than an joke lol. Baka

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> You and your ilk don't give 2 s***s about Russia. You support the Russian Nazis for their Anti-Western stance , yet if you were offered a choice to live in Russia or receive a US Green Card, you'd choose the US every time. Theres good reason why US embassy wait times are in years.


WEll, considered he had ALREADY chosen to live in the UK instead of Russia, that said just way too much lol

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## jhungary

Gomig-21 said:


> Wait what? No way, come on lol...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548038776139591682


Video were fake, that guy is yelling Spanish......

Most likely these people are Columbian (Judging by the fact that they were wearing USMC Digital Woodland Uniform and using M4) 

None of that were used in the UK or Ukraine. Plus, I am pretty sure they don't speak Spanish in British Training Center.


----------



## Viet

“no mercy to enemy”
Olexij Resnikow- Ukraine military chief

Ukraine receives M270 from the UK.
The system can fire 12 missiles in a salvo instead of 6. Range 80km. Ukraine hopes to get missiles with range 300km.

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Exactly how is he a joke for pointing out facts?


lol, don't really mind him lol. 

I don't know why these people were hostile, but then as much as you probably should know, you got shit and ding everywhere. Jealous? Or just try to compensate their own shortage? I don't know.

@Oldman1

Seems like the US is mulling on selling the 40 M109A6 Taiwan ordered in 2021 but felt thru to Ukraine. The line of production has already been reserved, maybe they will switch to their own stock (so transfer their own stock and the replenish with the new production) or they are going to make it for them and deliver them somewhere in 2023. 

My source in the Pentagon told me they are trying to figure out how they would do the transfer.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> So when will SMIC invest in Afghanistan?


Why should Smic invest in Afghanistan? And what has it got to do with 'democracy'? 🤔



gambit said:


> I said that China got wealthy because of democracy and as I expected, you did not get it despite the clues I gave before that question. You ain't that smart. No smarter than the redneck hillbilly Americans you sneered at.


China got wealthy because of hard work and exports and trade not democracy, its like saying Saudi got rich because of democracy. Market economy and democracy are two different things, you can be authoratarian and capitalistic.

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Why should Smic invest in Afghanistan? And what has it got to do with 'democracy'? 🤔
> 
> 
> China got wealthy because of hard work and exports and trade not democracy, its like saying Saudi got rich because of democracy. Market economy and democracy are two different things, you can be authoratarian and capitalistic.


Looks like you did not get it either. So much for that 'high Chinese IQ'.

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## Gomig-21

jhungary said:


> Video were fake, that guy is yelling Spanish......
> 
> Most likely these people are Columbian (Judging by the fact that they were wearing USMC Digital Woodland Uniform and using M4)
> 
> None of that were used in the UK or Ukraine. Plus, I am pretty sure they don't speak Spanish in British Training Center.



It's a joke for crying out loud. Lighten up man, don't take everything so seriously.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548247982906425344

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548229897058783232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548259349155393537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548246286725304321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548235051468369923

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548223911225016320

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## The SC

Work of the Self-propelled artillery "Msta-S"






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548195320282386432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548221291483709450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548251612719697920

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548292528268423169
Russian artillery fires have significantly decreased after destruction of rear ammo dumps.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainians are getting plummeted and all we hear from Western propagandists is "HIMARS this, HIMARS that". 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548084172090068993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548084172090068993

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548084172090068993

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548257783975251968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548257241005899777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548256982246649859

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548256451956654080

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548312088962994176
Su-25 of the Russian Air Force launched an airstrike on the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Maryinka.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548322540300316675
Russian 152-mm self-propelled guns 2S19 "Msta-C" hit the positions of the Ukrainian armed forces in the Slavic direction. Artillery units of the RF Armed Forces support the troop group advancing in the direction of the Slovyansk-Kramatorsk agglomeration.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548320778004729858

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548242674099953664


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548251525545218052

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548251127535177728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548250960664752134

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548249446944686086

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548249451088646147

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Direct hit by Russian artillery on the positions of Ukrainian militants.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548279119229509635

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548248909171961856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548220725114204160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548243433310916609

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian artillery hits the trenches of Ukrainian soldiers.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548262553540628482


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

All Russian S-400 in Ukraine have been destroyed by US HIMARS


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547091380291489797

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065022168903683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065025071321090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065026904170497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065028753920001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065030632923136

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The Ukrainians are just getting plummeted in their trenches. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548326120507944960

A Russian tank crew getting heavy on the Ukrainians


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548290288992432129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548283856121303043

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## Primus

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> All Russian S-400 in Ukraine have been destroyed by US HIMARS
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547091380291489797
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065022168903683
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065025071321090
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065026904170497
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065028753920001
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065030632923136

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548206241255526401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548201237039828994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548245812546744324

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548245827331665926

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Hundreds millions will be killed by direct nuclear hits. the nuclear fallout is worse, will kill 90 people of world population.


 The impact of 4000-5000 MIRV warheads USSR had at its peak would've been 60-70m in eighties if USSR did nothing, but striking biggest population centres only, and nobody hid in shelters.


----------



## Clutch

Putin Has A Problem: 38,000 Dead Troops And 1,672 Destroyed Tanks In Ukraine​





By
Stavros Atlamazoglou
Published
5 hours ago



















Image of Russian T-72 firing.
On day 142 of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Russian military continues with its operational pause, and as a result, little has changed on the battlefield.

*The situation in the Donbas *
In its daily estimate of the war, the British Ministry of Defense focused on the situation in the Donbas and the next likely Russian targets but also touched on Snake Island and the Russian military’s inability to strike targets with precision.
“In the Donbas, Russian and pro-Russian Luhansk People’s Republic separatist forces claim to have entered the outskirts of Siversk,” the British Military Intelligence assessed.

Ukraine Strikes Significantly Reducing Russia's Offensive Potential, Kyiv Says​By Reuters Wire Service Content • July 15, 2022, at 2:43 p.m.

By Max Hunder and Tom Balmforth

KYIV (Reuters) - Ukrainian rocket strikes have destroyed more than 30 Russian military logistics centres in recent weeks and significantly reduced Russia's attacking potential, Ukraine's defence ministry spokesperson said on Friday.

The official, Oleksandr Motuzianyk, singled out the role played by U.S.-produced HIMARS rocket systems, one of several types of long-range weapon supplied by the West to help Ukraine fight back against Russia.

"In the last weeks, over 30 of the enemy's military logistical facilities have been destroyed, as a result of which the attacking potential of Russian forces has been significantly reduced," Motuzianyk said on national television.

Motuzianyk told Reuters in separate comments that the 30 targets were destroyed by multiple launch rocket systems, including HIMARS.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548316153084227585

This is what the Russian Nazis bring. Death, suffering, looting, raping etc.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## SQ8

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> All Russian S-400 in Ukraine have been destroyed by US HIMARS
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547091380291489797
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065022168903683
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065025071321090
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065026904170497
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065028753920001
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548065030632923136


@Desert Fox 1 - real world validation.. take a bow



F-22Raptor said:


> This is what the Russian Nazis bring. Death, suffering, looting, raping etc.


That is terrible but so is the sensationalist add-ons:
Everyone is a Nazi or racist now… even that Uber eats guy deciding to deliver me cold pizza.
The terms will lose their meaning and effectiveness where they actually matter

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## jhungary

Gomig-21 said:


> It's a joke for crying out loud. Lighten up man, don't take everything so seriously.


I don't see misinformation as a joke. 

I mean sure, when this war is over, we can post army fail all night long and tell jokes as if this is the shit. But when the war is still ongoing, stuff coming from people mouth (Especially the guy you posted is extremely pro-Russia) stupid people are going to buy it no matter how far fetch it is, you don't need to look far, there are tons of idiots in this forum alone would buy what the Russian is selling, no matter how stupid it looks. Which is why I see these things very seriously.


----------



## Primus

Clutch said:


> Putin Has A Problem: 38,000 Dead Troops And 1,672 Destroyed Tanks In Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By
> Stavros Atlamazoglou
> Published
> 5 hours ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image of Russian T-72 firing.
> On day 142 of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Russian military continues with its operational pause, and as a result, little has changed on the battlefield.
> 
> *The situation in the Donbas *
> In its daily estimate of the war, the British Ministry of Defense focused on the situation in the Donbas and the next likely Russian targets but also touched on Snake Island and the Russian military’s inability to strike targets with precision.
> “In the Donbas, Russian and pro-Russian Luhansk People’s Republic separatist forces claim to have entered the outskirts of Siversk,” the British Military Intelligence assessed.
> 
> Ukraine Strikes Significantly Reducing Russia's Offensive Potential, Kyiv Says​By Reuters Wire Service Content • July 15, 2022, at 2:43 p.m.
> 
> By Max Hunder and Tom Balmforth
> 
> KYIV (Reuters) - Ukrainian rocket strikes have destroyed more than 30 Russian military logistics centres in recent weeks and significantly reduced Russia's attacking potential, Ukraine's defence ministry spokesperson said on Friday.
> 
> The official, Oleksandr Motuzianyk, singled out the role played by U.S.-produced HIMARS rocket systems, one of several types of long-range weapon supplied by the West to help Ukraine fight back against Russia.
> 
> "In the last weeks, over 30 of the enemy's military logistical facilities have been destroyed, as a result of which the attacking potential of Russian forces has been significantly reduced," Motuzianyk said on national television.
> 
> Motuzianyk told Reuters in separate comments that the 30 targets were destroyed by multiple launch rocket systems, including HIMARS.


Damn, the Ukrainians and their allies are so strong, they destroyed more Russian tanks than Russia actually deployed into Ukraine in the first place 

Thats pretty epic



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548316153084227585
> 
> This is what the Russian Nazis bring. Death, suffering, looting, raping etc.


And wtf did the US bring to Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria? Flowers and love?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548368714638143488


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## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Damn, the Ukrainians and their allies are so strong, they destroyed more Russian tanks than Russia actually deployed into Ukraine in the first place
> 
> Thats pretty epic


lol how??

The Russian started this invasion with 10 tanks per Battle Tactical Group, that's about 1800-2000 tanks in total. And with replacement and all, it's not at all unimaginable to have 1600 taken out. In fact, the actual number probably more than that but then most tanks that are reported destroyed only with visual sighting (so the hull is seen) so probably you have maybe twice that amount destroyed or beyond repaired.

Mind you Russia had a 11,000 tanks armies when they started this, and now, they are deploying older model like T-62 suggested a lot of better weapon were out.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548371673295904768


----------



## Corax

jhungary said:


> Lol the "reason" I couldn't is simply because you, A NOBODY, said it is. And when I suggested point to challenge the fact that both story and the picture have problem, you denied it outright WITHOUT given any explanation.
> 
> I mean, sure, if you are a artillery exerpt or what, maybe I will listen to you, but you are a NOBDOY with hat too big of your head. Am I to say "Sure, you are right and I am wrong BECAUSE YOU SAID SO??"
> 
> The better question is.* Who the fuc are you??*



Wow man, must have touched a nerve there  you've been shown to be a fraud and fake, and either don't have the ability, or can't admit, when shown M777s being destroyed  I may be many things, but at least I ain't a fake narcissist

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> lol how??
> 
> The Russian started this invasion with 10 tanks per Battle Tactical Group, that's about 1800-2000 tanks in total. And with replacement and all, it's not at all unimaginable to have 1600 taken out. In fact, the actual number probably more than that but then most tanks that are reported destroyed only with visual sighting (so the hull is seen) so probably you have maybe twice that amount destroyed or beyond repaired.
> 
> Mind you Russia had a 11,000 tanks armies when they started this, and now, they are deploying older model like T-62 suggested a lot of better weapon were out.




Well, Russia has definitely lost over 1,000. Around 900 have been visually confirmed. Russian tank losses are likely between 1,200-1,500. It's believed they have around 3,200 combat capable tanks. The rest are rust buckets that haven't been properly maintained.


----------



## jhungary

Corax said:


> We're all "nobodies" on this forum, especially you, but you've been exposed as a fake and fraud, as well as a narcist


expose by who? You?? Do you even know where is the dangerous end of a gun?

Not everyone created different, the very fact that I can negative rate you when I can and you can only give me a stupid  is a very obvious reason.

Only you think you are all that, and if that is not narcist? Then I don't know what is.

  

So how does it like to be -12 in rating? Must be hard living in the negative HAHAHA



F-22Raptor said:


> Well, Russia has definitely lost over 1,000. Around 900 have been visually confirmed. Russian tank losses are likely between 1,200-1,500. It's believed they have around 3,200 combat capable tanks. The rest are rust buckets that haven't been properly maintained.



I would put Russian tanks (only armour) reclamation rate a about 30-40%, which mean 30-40% of what they had deployed is destroyed.

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> lol how??
> 
> The Russian started this invasion with 10 tanks per Battle Tactical Group, that's about 1800-2000 tanks in total. And with replacement and all, it's not at all unimaginable to have 1600 taken out. In fact, the actual number probably more than that but then most tanks that are reported destroyed only with visual sighting (so the hull is seen) so probably you have maybe twice that amount destroyed or beyond repaired.
> 
> Mind you Russia had a 11,000 tanks armies when they started this, and now, they are deploying older model like T-62 suggested a lot of better weapon were out.


I was under the impression Russia deployed 1200 tanks

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## jhungary

Huffal said:


> I was under the impression Russia deployed 1200 tanks


nah, 10 tank per infantry BTG, and 40 tanks per armour BTG.

They had around 80 infantry BTG and 20 armour BTG in theatre at the beginning, Comes out with around 1800-2000 tanks. (1800 or standard TO&E, 2000 if reinforced.) and I am pretty sure Russian had put another 70+ BTG in theatre since Feb 24, so it would be more than 2000 deployed.

NB. I know 80x10 + 20x40 = 1600, what I said is just Russian equipment, LNR and DNR both have armoured and they are fielding about 200 tanks at the beginning.

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## Dalit

Lehrasap said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Ukraine will never fight with the NATO states of Europe which are helping them.
> But the mentality and religion play very negative role in this part, and soon we will see Taliban fighting with other Afghans, and then Taliban will fight with Iran and even with Pakistan.
> 
> Already Taliban supported TTP killed thousands of Pakistanis and also killed thousands of other Afghans.
> 
> All the sane Western people should leave places like Afghanistan and Pakistan as they will destroy themselves sooner or later.



You don't belong in those countries anyway. Good advice. Leave.

Such an immense joy to see these Western poodles cry rivers and work overtime on PDF LOL Never ever have I seen Western stooges work so hard to convince the so-called third world inhabitants. They come here on our forum and ridicule everything that doesn't look like them. Today they are here and literally touching our feet to hear them out and believe their version of the truth. The irony is that there are hardly any buyers. Almost every person is willingly opting to support Russia. Of course every person and side has their own reasons. We all unanimously agree that US/Western powers are shedding crocodile tears. We also agree that you reap what you sow. Today it is your turn to pay for your sins. Today it is your turn to watch helplessly and feel the pain and agony.

These Western rascals are so full of themselves that their ambassadors write letters to governments for support. These rascals are so pathetic that if a government of a developing nation doesn't tow their narrative they simply replace them with the help of corrupt military regimes. You cannot force nor buy support. Support only comes when the cause is right.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> expose by who? You?? Do you even know where is the dangerous end of a gun?
> 
> Not everyone created different, the very fact that I can negative rate you when I can and you can only give me a stupid  is a very obvious reason.
> 
> Only you think you are all that, and if that is not narcist? Then I don't know what is.
> 
> 
> 
> So how does it like to be -12 in rating? Must be hard living in the negative HAHAHA
> 
> 
> 
> I would put Russian tanks (only armour) reclamation rate a about 30-40%, which mean 30-40% of what they had deployed is destroyed.



You've been exposed by real life military personnel, like the Austrian serviceman who identified the M777 using the very same footage you so desperately tried to argue was fake!!    

Oh wow... That's all you can do?! Keep issuing me negative rating?! I'm so scared!!!

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## Dalit

Take your Western crying somewhere else. We don't care about your problems. These are your problems and not our problems. We will listen and support a side that we deem right. Don't fvcking like it? Deal with it anyway.

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## jhungary

This is interesting









House authorizes training for Ukrainian pilots to use U.S. aircraft


The House approved $100 million in funding to train Ukrainian pilots to use U.S. aircraft as part of the National Defense Authorization Act it passed 329-101 this week.




www.defensenews.com





House authorizes training for Ukrainian pilots to use U.S. aircraft​By Bryant Harris
Jul 16, 06:38 AM





A Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker flies over the flightline during the opening ceremony of exercise Clear Sky 18 at Starokostiantyniv Air Base, Ukraine, Oct. 8, 2018. Clear Sky 18 promotes regional stability and security, while strengthening partner capabilities and fostering trust. (Airman 1st Class Christopher S. Sparks/U.S. Air Force photo)
WASHINGTON — The House approved $100 million in funding to train Ukrainian pilots to use U.S. aircraft as part of the National Defense Authorization Act it passed 329-101 this week.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has asked since March for American-made F-15 and F-16 fighter jets. But Ukrainian pilots accustomed to aging Soviet-era MiG-29s and Sukhoi planes have not been trained to use U.S. fighter jets, a process that could take months.

Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., told Defense News he has been in touch with the Kyiv on the matter and that he added the $100 million for training as an amendment to the defense authorization bill this week in order to facilitate an eventual shift of Ukraine’s military hardware away from Soviet-era technology.
“What we want to do is obviously send a message to authorize the process,” Kinzinger told Defense News. “There is no doubt to me that when this war ends, Ukraine is going to have to be outfitted with western military equipment. Plus, there’s just no more MiGs left and no more MiG supplies.”
The Biden administration has thus far not transferred the requested U.S. aircraft as part of the billions of dollars in military aid for Ukraine, generating tension with a vocal contingent of lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

The United States also declined to facilitate the transfer of Poland’s MiG-29s from Ramstein Air Base in Germany earlier this year after Warsaw made the announcement without consulting Washington.
The Biden administration has remained wary of allowing sensitive U.S. technology to fall into Russian hands on the battlefield and has worried about Moscow’s response should Ukrainian forces use high-end American equipment to attack Russian territory. But Kinzinger said the Ukrainians can be trusted with the equipment.
“They’ve been clear — and they’ve shown this with the weapons they have — they’re not trying to start a war with Russia inside of Russia,” said Kinzinger. “They just want to defend their homeland.”
He noted the United States is ready to start training Ukrainian pilots at Columbus Air Force Base, Mississippi and possibly in Texas as well. It would take about three months to train the pilots to fly the F-15s and F-16s at a basic level.
The Senate is not expected to vote on its version of the defense authorization bill until September at the earliest, then both chambers must agree on compromise legislation in conference committee. Should Kinzinger’s amendment survive conference, the United States could be training Ukrainian pilots here as soon as next year.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> lol, expose what? some dude said it is,? Scott Ritter (Captain USMC) also said no western aid arrived in Ukraine, does that mean that's true???And the guy with World of Tank (he was ex-US army 19A) said Russian tank is not at all Useless........Does that mean it is true??
> 
> How stupid were you actually?? I mean, if you buy what the Youtube or whatever video maker tell you, that only mean you are dumb, not you are right.
> 
> And sure, sure, sure, I don't mind you call you a fake, again, I don't care about a single nobody in this forum.... you mean<...> this much to me.



If you have such a low opinion of this forum and its members, why do you keep coming back here?!

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## Dalit

Missile strike on Ukraine space plant in Dnipro kills three


Russia says the famous space rocket and satellite factory was used to produce parts for missiles.



www.bbc.com





Shit happens. Deal with it.



Corax said:


> If you have such a low opinion of this forum and its members, why do you keep coming back here?!



He comes here to beg. There is an army of these people that come here to beg and convince us. We show them palm face.

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> If you have such a low opinion of this forum and its members, why do you keep coming back here?!


I don't have low opinion of this forum and its member, i have low opinion on YOU, and YOU ONLY. Well, and probably some of your goonie. But mostly YOU


----------



## jhungary

Dalit said:


> It is good to see you act so desperately.


Not as desperate as to ask the mod to choose, and not got chosen........lol

Geez, must have been very butt hurt, them being your compatriot and all. choose an outsider but not your own kind lol.

  

Really, really do want to know how you feel when you ask the mod either to ban me or you leave but they did nothing on me.....I mean, god, even I didn't get that crazy and have them choose......and I have 351 positive rating......


----------



## Dalit

jhungary said:


> Not as desperate as to ask the mod to choose, and not got chosen........lol
> 
> Geez, must have been very butt hurt, them being your compatriot and all. choose an outside but not your own kind lol.



Hail Russia. May Russia destroy its enemies and enjoy victory. Amen. I want to see you hurt and destroyed. The Taliban humiliation was just a walk in the park. This will be epic.

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## jhungary

Dalit said:


> Hail Russia. May Russia destroy its enemies and enjoy victory. Amen. I want to see you hurt and destroyed. The Taliban humiliation was just a walk in the park. This will be epic.


Why would I be hurt if Russian destroy Ukraine? Even if they can do it?

I don't have Ukrainian citizenship nor was it ever my home?

I train these guy to f with the Russian, that does not mean my allegiance is to Ukraine.

Plus, from the looks of it, it's the Ukrainian who are humiliating the Russian anyway. I mean, how did Russia lost an island (Snake Island) to an enemy that *DID NOT EVEN HAVE A NAVY*. Now, that probably the world biggest laughing stock than the next thing, when again, the Russian lose a cruiser to an enemy without a Navy

LOL

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## jhungary

Dalit said:


> Scream harder. I cannot hear you.


lol, i can never scream hard enough when you ask the mod to choose and they didn't choose you lol

 

And you know who didnt hear you? the mod here.....

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## Dalit

jhungary said:


> lol, i can never scream hard enough when you ask the mod to choose and they didn't choose you lol
> 
> 
> 
> And you know who didnt hear you? the mod here.....



Look at him go. He is having seizures. I am happy. So happy Russia is extracting revenge. Russia is making us all happy.

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## jhungary

Dalit said:


> Look at him go. He is having seizures.


Yes, I am having seizure from you asking the mod to choose to ban me or you leave and it didn't go your way......still falling down my chair from when you first did that. That's arrogant to the max and did not really reciprocate   

And yes, I am just going to keep going with this with EVERY POST you quote me.


----------



## Dalit

jhungary said:


> Yes, I am having seizure from you asking the mod to choose to ban me or you leave and it didn't go your way......still falling down my chair from when you first did that. That's arrogant to the max and did not really reciprocate
> 
> And yes, I am just going to keep going with this with EVERY POST you quote me.



LOL If only I could stand with my bucket and collect your tears right now. I would collect every precious drop.

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## jhungary

Dalit said:


> LOL If only I could stand with my bucket and collect your tears right now. I would collect every precious drop.


well, you will need a* VERY BIG *bucket.

I am still laughing my arse off the time you ask the mod to choose between you and me. A lot of tears are going to come out from that one. Probably not going to stop laugh-crying until you really leave, just as you said when you tell the mob to either ban me or you leave........

LOL

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> nah, 10 tank per infantry BTG, and 40 tanks per armour BTG.
> 
> They had around 80 infantry BTG and 20 armour BTG in theatre at the beginning, Comes out with around 1800-2000 tanks. (1800 or standard TO&E, 2000 if reinforced.) and I am pretty sure Russian had put another 70+ BTG in theatre since Feb 24, so it would be more than 2000 deployed.
> 
> NB. I know 80x10 + 20x40 = 1600, what I said is just Russian equipment, LNR and DNR both have armoured and they are fielding about 200 tanks at the beginning.


Understood, thank you for the correction


----------



## Dalit

jhungary said:


> well, you will need a* VERY BIG *bucket.
> 
> I am still laughing my arse off the time you ask the mod to choose between you and me. A lot of tears are going to come out from that one. Probably not going to stop laugh-crying until you really leave, just as you said when you tell the mob to either ban me or you leave........
> 
> LOL



What a joy. Pain. More pain for you. Hail Russia.

I have been reading your sorry posts in this topic. You arw literally on your knees pleading for understanding. We won't condemn Russia LOL

Russia is enjoying success by the minute and your crying won't stop that.

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## jhungary

Dalit said:


> What a joy. Pain. More pain for you. Hail Russia.
> 
> I have been reading your sorry posts in this topic. You arw literally on your knees pleading for understanding. We won't condemn Russia LOL


lol, my tear is from seeing you ask the mod to ban me or you leave and they did jack shit. Nothing get more tears out from that, it have nothing to do with Ukraine lol.  

I don't care if you condemn Russia lol, as if that would change anything. I mean, would Ukraine lost because Pakistan refused to condemn Russia?? LOL


----------



## Dalit

jhungary said:


> lol, my tear is from seeing you ask the mod to ban me or you leave and they did jack shit. Nothing get more tears out from that, it have nothing to do with Ukraine lol.
> 
> I don't care if you condemn Russia lol, as if that would change anything. I mean, would Ukraine lost because Pakistan refused to condemn Russia?? LOL



LOL what a joy. Pure joy.

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## jhungary

Dalit said:


> LOL what a joy. Pure joy.
> 
> View attachment 862490


lol, yes, every time i see you ask mob to ban me or your leave and got ignored is pure joy to watch

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## Dalit

jhungary said:


> lol, yes, every time i see you ask mob to ban me or your leave and got ignored is pure joy to watch



LOL Russia is going to win and there is little you can do about that.

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## jhungary

Dalit said:


> LOL Russia is going to win and there is little you can do about that.


To be honest, i really don't care...Take the entire Ukraine if you want. It's well, Ukraine.

As i said from the beginning, NATO start this because they wanted Finland and Sweden, they GOT Finland and Sweden now, so why would anyone in NATO care about Ukraine?? Or you really do think NATO care about Ukraine??

The only thing I care is they F as many Russian as they can, as long as they can take down the Russian, that's alright with me. I do care how many Russian are killed, I don't really care how many Ukrainian were killed. I mean, I got to kill my enemy without me or any one from my camp to even leave our country or even fire my weapon, why not?

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## A.P. Richelieu

Huffal said:


> And wtf did the US bring to Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria? Flowers and love?


They got rid of Mullah Omar, Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi.
Three butchers the world can live without.

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## Primus

A.P. Richelieu said:


> They got rid of Mullah Omar, Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi.
> Three butchers the world can live without.


And paved ways for people ten times worse to come into power and kill even more people. Bravo 👍

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## A.P. Richelieu

Huffal said:


> And paved ways for people ten times worse to come into power and kill even more people. Bravo 👍



Nonsense.
People that are ten times worse than the listed butchers only exist in your fantasy.

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## Primus

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Nonsense.
> People that are ten times worse than the listed butchers only exist in your fantasy.


Mhm yea, because Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan are such amazingly economically strong countries with infrastructure that can support them all. 

Totally no civil wars of any sorts were fought after the aforementioned invasions, or the further killings of civillians. Bravo 👍

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## Dalit

A.P. Richelieu said:


> They got rid of Mullah Omar, Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi.
> Three butchers the world can live without.



Mind your own business. These countries never asked for Western help.

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## gambit

Dalit said:


> Mind your own business. These countries never asked for Western help.


Too bad they did not mind their business and stayed inside their borders.

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## Type59

jhungary said:


> To be honest, i really don't care...Take the entire Ukraine if you want. It's well, Ukraine.
> 
> As i said from the beginning, NATO start this because they wanted Finland and Sweden, they GOT Finland and Sweden now, so why would anyone in NATO care about Ukraine?? Or you really do think NATO care about Ukraine??
> 
> The only thing I care is they F as many Russian as they can, as long as they can take down the Russian, that's alright with me. I do care how many Russian are killed, I don't really care how many Ukrainian were killed. I mean, I got to kill my enemy without me or any one from my camp to even leave our country or even fire my weapon, why not?


You don't care about fellow Americans. When the US invades another country in the Middle East, I bet Russians will be shipping boatloads of Atgms, drones etc for the rebels.



gambit said:


> Too bad they did not mind their business and stayed inside their borders.



I wish the US military would be used to prevent gangs terrorising people in many US urban areas, the cartels killing Americans through powerful opioids and mass shootings.


----------



## khansaheeb

MH.Yang said:


> ?


In your pics the one climbing the stairs is a woman, not clear, but is that your pic?


----------



## MH.Yang

khansaheeb said:


> In your pics the one climbing the stairs is a woman, not clear, but is that your pic?


No, it's an illustration of a news report about the maintenance of the shelter underpass. I found it on the Internet. 

I'm a man.


----------



## khansaheeb

MH.Yang said:


> No, it's an illustration of a news report about the maintenance of the shelter underpass. I found it on the Internet.
> 
> I'm a man.


Oops ,sorry.



gambit said:


> Yeah...Too bad you did not note how he said 'lost'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general - France 24
> 
> 
> US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.france24.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The war was a strategic failure," Milley told a committee hearing about the US troop pullout from Afghanistan and the chaotic evacuation from the capital Kabul.​​"It wasn't lost in the last 20 days or even 20 months," Milley said.​​*"There's a cumulative effect to a series of strategic decisions that go way back,"* said the general, the top military advisor to President Joe Biden, who ordered an end to the 20-year US troop presence in Afghanistan.​
> You clearly did not think about what Milley really meant to say. Did the USAF failed against the Afghanistan Air Force?


Said to tell you but the cumulative effect was a "DEFEAT", if you don't already know.-"*"There's a cumulative effect to a series of strategic decisions that go way back,""*

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## beast89

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> What kind of trash is this bs..
> 
> Try to enter into an animals cave and try to take it over you will immediately find yourself in a fight... It is idiotic to assume otherwise even if the other party don't share your opinion..
> 
> They are from a different civilization they don't share values with all these folks and they have no intention of doing so..
> 
> There is no force each man can keep his own way of life and culture.. But thinking otherwise means first you have low-IQ to understand your surroundings and second of all you are probably deluded...
> 
> It is delusional to think or assume everything western civilization is holy bible.. When I see people type shxt like that I see it as if they are either kids like that greek PDF member where the other greeks in this website didn't even like him because he was to young and childish....
> 
> ----


he's one of those iranian exiles who thinks the shah will come back

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548404011857915909

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548481831585992704

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548414324523184129

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

A.P. Richelieu said:


> They got rid of Mullah Omar, Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi.
> Three butchers the world can live without.



Anyone of them butcher any Swedes?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548405446049796097

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Talk is cheap. Ukraine is getting beaten in the battle field. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548045478108901379
> 
> 
> 
> Your HIMARS are getting taken out by Russia's missile attacks to the point where Western propagandists are having a meltdown. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548047035797909506


Not really, Russia is struggling and if you can’t admit that you have your eyes closed.

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## gambit

khansaheeb said:


> Said to tell you but the cumulative effect was a "DEFEAT", if you don't already know.-"*"There's a cumulative effect to a series of strategic decisions that go way back,""*


Sad to tell you that it seems the best, not the only way, to kinda sorta of 'defeat' the US is to lose in battles, give up territories in home soil, then wait until the US got tire and leave. Cumulative, indeed. I wonder which military academy will teach that.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548487851435646977

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548429485690609669

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548403061571215361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548404209162153984

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548398384574185472

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548387651819950081

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## Hassan Al-Somal

RoadAmerica said:


> Not really, Russia is struggling and if you can’t admit that you have your eyes closed.




Of course you can say that since the beatings that Ukrainians are taking aren't what matters to you; to you and other Western propagandists, what counts is how much pain Russia is taking. This is why the effects of the so-called "HIMARS" are exaggerated. But looking at the amount of missile and aerial assaults the Ukrainians are suffering, it is a slaughter. Sadly though, neither the West nor the Ukrainian leaders care about the suffering of the Ukrainians.

Nevertheless, this is another blow that the West is taking. *FYI, this is what the war is all about.* 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548371654958391296
From military to economic warfare, Russia has seriously challenged West's hegemony across the globe. In 2022, you have oil and gas purchases taking place outside of the US Dollar. You also have other financial systems such as CHIPS and SPFS in play where trade is conducted outside of the SWIFT system.

And at the end, this translates to West's ability to sanction other countries has been removed or loosened. You (West) sanction a country where you deny the checks from their central banks. Fine, if that country's central bank is registered with SPFS and CHIPS financial systems, they would do trade there that your fraudelent sanctions don't mean anything to them. *Gone are the days of embargoing Cuba, DPRK, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, Turkey, Pakistan, Venezuela, Russia and other countries.*

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## Soldier35

On Saturday morning, Russian forces fired Kh-101 cruise missiles at military targets in Odessa. The missiles were fired from a Tu-95 strategic bomber. As a result of the strike, a large-scale fire started at one of the warehouses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the western districts of Odessa. The missile hit the warehouse was also confirmed by the speaker of the Odessa military administration, Sergei Bratchuk.






Footage of the liquidation of one of the soldiers of the Ukrainian sabotage group has been published. The Ukrainian car, passing through the checkpoint, did not stop and tried to escape. Turning onto a country road and trying to evade pursuit, he ran into another car with the Russian military, who destroyed the car of a soldier of the Ukrainian sabotage group with shots from a grenade launcher and small arms. A machine gun and documents of a serviceman were found in the car.

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## Viet

RoadAmerica said:


> Not really, Russia is struggling and if you can’t admit that you have your eyes closed.


Putin says the war has barely started. The problem is he runs out of soldiers. Putin still has plenty weapons to carry on the war for years, but has no people. He now recruits prisoners for the suicide missions in Ukraine.

Already over 4 million Russians left the country. By this pace Russia becomes another Japan just poorer.

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## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> Sad to tell you that it seems the best, not the only way, to kinda sorta of 'defeat' the US is to lose in battles, give up territories in home soil, then wait until the US got tire and leave. Cumulative, indeed. I wonder which military academy will teach that.


If you consider breaking in and entering a victory then there a lot of victorious criminals in the US

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## Viet

Now comes the great hours of the Ukraine partisan. The Russian occupation army is called 

“Raschisten” russian facists or 
“Orks”





__





National Resistance center - Центр національного спротиву


Each one of us can resist the enemy and put his part in for the victory. Together , we will turn the enemies' lives into hell.




sprotyv.mod.gov.ua

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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548429485690609669
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548403061571215361
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548404209162153984


Who is going to get the contracts to rebuild all this colossal destruction? Why is Russia hitting civilian targets, this is not acceptable.

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## RescueRanger

Viet said:


> Now comes the great hours of the Ukraine partisan. The Russian occupation army is called
> 
> “Raschisten” russian facists or
> “Orks”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> National Resistance center - Центр національного спротиву
> 
> 
> Each one of us can resist the enemy and put his part in for the victory. Together , we will turn the enemies' lives into hell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sprotyv.mod.gov.ua


Whilst I am very much pro-Ukraine from an ethical standpoint, I cannot agree with this categorisation of Russians as "subhuman", I appreciate its reciprocal because the Russians also use a pejorative when referring to Ukrainians but this categorisation of calling Russians "orcs" a subhuman species from Tolkien's book "The Book of Lost Tales". 

When imagining what an evil, unflinching and fearsome army of ghastly soldiers would look like, especially soldiers who in his book " The book of lost tales" penned by Tolkien were beasts created by the first Dark Lord, Morgoth, before the First Age and served him and later his successor in their quest to dominate Middle-earth.

Tolkien's inspiration for the word "orc" came from an obscure name given to mythical creatures and literally meant "demon"








orc | mythological creature


orc, a mythical creature (such as a sea monster, a giant, or an ogre) of horrid form or aspect. The word orc in English has two distinct sources. Orc in reference to a vaguely cetacean sea monster is borrowed from one or more Romance words, such as the French orque or the Italian orca, all...



www.britannica.com





Interestingly this behaviour of attributing "subhuman" traits to enemies was first seen in Heinrich Himmler’s pamphlet simply titled Der Untermensch "The Sub Human".










Of course you could argue this dehumanisation is important in war, after all it is harder to kill something when you see it as a living, breathing sentient being, and easier when it is seen as somehow an abomination or blight that must be gotten rid of. Either way it is bitter irony that in 2022 we are still using tactics adopted and perfected by Himmler to alienate the Jews 80 years ago.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Huffal said:


> Mhm yea, because Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan are such amazingly economically strong countries with infrastructure that can support them all.
> 
> Totally no civil wars of any sorts were fought after the aforementioned invasions, or the further killings of civillians. Bravo 👍


Yes, they were all affected by global islamists power grabs.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yes, they were all affected by global islamists power grabs.


when one criminal and biggest mass murderer of all times called those nonsense wars and criminally killing of civilians . as crusades it made everything clear.
don't tell who said that go and find it yourself

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## Viet

RescueRanger said:


> Whilst I am very much pro-Ukraine from an ethical standpoint, I cannot agree with this categorisation of Russians as "subhuman", I appreciate its reciprocal because the Russians also use a pejorative when referring to Ukrainians but this categorisation of calling Russians "orcs" a subhuman species from Tolkien's book "The Book of Lost Tales".
> 
> When imagining what an evil, unflinching and fearsome army of ghastly soldiers would look like, especially soldiers who in his book " The book of lost tales" penned by Tolkien were beasts created by the first Dark Lord, Morgoth, before the First Age and served him and later his successor in their quest to dominate Middle-earth.
> 
> Tolkien's inspiration for the word "orc" came from an obscure name given to mythical creatures and literally meant "demon"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> orc | mythological creature
> 
> 
> orc, a mythical creature (such as a sea monster, a giant, or an ogre) of horrid form or aspect. The word orc in English has two distinct sources. Orc in reference to a vaguely cetacean sea monster is borrowed from one or more Romance words, such as the French orque or the Italian orca, all...
> 
> 
> 
> www.britannica.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly this behaviour of attributing "subhuman" traits to enemies was first seen in Heinrich Himmler’s pamphlet simply titled Der Untermensch "The Sub Human".
> 
> View attachment 862581
> View attachment 862580
> 
> 
> Of course you could argue this dehumanisation is important in war, after all it is harder to kill something when you see it as a living, breathing sentient being, and easier when it is seen as somehow an abomination or blight that must be gotten rid of. Either way it is bitter irony that in 2022 we are still using tactics adopted and perfected by Himmler to alienate the Jews 80 years ago.


"the time of the orcs are coming!"
Putin can´t say better.

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## Clutch

Su-35S: Russia’s Newish Fighter That Was a Powerhouse (Until Ukraine?)​ 









By
Peter Suciu 


Published
3 hours ago 






  

 
   

 
   

 
  

 
  

 
  
 










Image: Creative Commons. 




*Russia’s Su-35S fighter seems like a modernized version of the Su-27, making it a clear winner for many reasons. And yet, while it would have seemed this modern plane would have done well over the skies in Ukraine all has not gone according to plan*: Recently a pair of Russian Sukhoi Su-35 (NATO reporting name “Flanker-E”) – the improved derivative of the Cold War-era Su-27 – had bombed targets in Ukraine before returning to its base. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced crews of the Su-35S fighter jets from the Western Military District of the Russian Armed Forces destroyed viral “military infrastructure of the Armed Forces of Ukraine during the special military operation.”

The Su-35S was developed to gain air supremacy by destroying manned and unmanned aerial vehicles with guided missiles at long, medium, and short ranges, while conducting long-range and short-range combat maneuvers.
For its part, Ukraine had also announced a Su-35S was shot down during an aerial dogfight over the Kherson region on May 27. That was less than two months after another Su-35S had been downed by Ukrainian air defenses near the Kharkiv region in early April.
*Su-35 – Capable Warbird?*

The Sukhoi Su-35S is a fourth-generation “++” aircraft that was designed with some fifth-generation technologies. The Flanker-E, which is essentially the second improved version of the Su-27M, is single-seat, twin-engine, supermaneuverable aircraft. It is an air superiority that can be used as a ground-attack aircraft.
The Su-35S features thrust-vectoring engines in place of the Su-27’s canards. It has been described by some Kremlin analysts as a capable foe to current U.S. aircraft, including the F-15 Eagle, the F/A-18, and even the F-35 Lightning II.

Russia has long touted its capabilities, and according to United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), the Su-35S’s manufacturer, the fighter “combines the qualities of a modern fighter (super-maneuverability, superior active and passive acquisition aids, high supersonic speed and long-range, capability of managing battle group actions, etc.) and a good tactical airplane (wide range of weapons that can be carried, modern multi-channel electronic warfare system, reduced radar signature, and high combat survivability).”
It is equipped with an Irbis phased-array radar control system which enables the aircraft to detect quickly and track simultaneously up to four ground targets or up to 30 airborne targets, while it can also engage up to eight airborne targets at the same time. In addition, the radar control system has the friend-or-foe identification capability for aerial and maritime objects, and is also capable of identifying the class and type of airborne targets and taking aerial photos of the ground. In theory, those capabilities would make for a highly capable aircraft.
The Su-35’s armament includes a GSh-30-1 30mm autocannon with 150 rounds, along with 17,630 pounds of payload on 12 external points. It can carry a variety of air-to-air, air-to-surface, anti-radiation, and anti-ship missiles, as well as a number of TV, laser-, and satellite-guided bombs.
Its twin Saturn AL-41F1S turbofans provide the Su-35 with maneuverability that UAC claims can easily match or exceed the evasion techniques of nearly all existing fourth-generation fighters. With a maximum speed of 1,550 mph and a ceiling of 59,050 feet, it is a well-armed, speedy aircraft.
*Flanker Fails?*
Despite Russia’s claims, some less biased aviation experts have suggested that the aircraft has failed to live up to the hype and that it has been little more than a stopgap by the Kremlin to update its antiquated Cold War fighters.

The Aviation Geek Club quoted Abhirup Sengupta, an aviation expert, who explained via Quora, “It’s marketed as ‘world-beating’ – something it doesn’t come close to.”
Sengupta explained, “The Su-35 is definitely the most capable fighter in the Russian Air Force and there is no doubt that it presents a serious threat to any 4th gen aircraft out there. But to say that it’s on the same level as today’s F-15E, F/A-18E/F, Typhoon or Rafale, much less ‘superior’ is defying reality.”




Russian Su-35 fighter jet. Image Credit: Creative Commons.
The fact that not one, but two of the Flanker-Es have been shot down in Ukraine – where Russia maintains an edge, even if it is uncontested control of the skies speaks volumes about the Su-35S. It could also explain why the Kremlin hasn’t opted to send additional Su-35S fighters to the warzone.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yes, they were all affected by global islamists power grabs.



If that is so... The Islamic movements would have win.... But that wasn't so.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> They got rid of Mullah Omar, Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi.
> Three butchers the world can live without.


Lol... Butchers????

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## Primus

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yes, they were all affected by global islamists power grabs.


Have you seen what Iraq, Syria and Libya looked like before these US and NATO 'interventions'? Those nations were better off than yours. People had clean water, sanitation, food and an actual infrastructure. This was during the time of those 'butchers'. 

And talking about global power grabs lol. Pot calling kettle black

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## RescueRanger

Ukrainian Airline Cargo plane carrying 'Dangerous Goods' crashed in Greece:

Residents reported seeing a fireball and hearing explosions for two hours after the Antonov aircraft came down near the city of Kavala.










Cargo plane operated by Ukrainian carrier crashes in Greece


An Antonov cargo plane operated by a Ukraine-based airline has crashed near the city of Kavala in northern Greece, authorities say.




www.abc.net.au

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## Viet

Oh that will become ugly. The Swiss becomes a new battlefield. Russia threatens Swiss over publishing a caricature on a newspaper.
Will Swiss seek to join NATO?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Huffal said:


> Have you seen what Iraq, Syria and Libya looked like before these US and NATO 'interventions'? Those nations were better off than yours. People had clean water, sanitation, food and an actual infrastructure. This was during the time of those 'butchers'.
> 
> And talking about global power grabs lol. Pot calling kettle black



It all started with the Arab Spring which succeeded in Tunisia and Egypt.
When people started to demonstrate for democracy in Syria and Libya the butchers responded with violence.
In Iraq, the security services absolutely killed all opposition.
The demonstrators were decidedly not happy with the situation.
No, they were not better off. They were slaves under brutal regimes.





__





Halabja massacre - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













How a Massacre of Nearly 300 in Syria Was Revealed


War crime researchers tricked Assad intelligence officers into confessing to the crime, and a chilling journalistic investigation followed




newlinesmag.com










Syria was in civil war for several years before the US started getting involved.
The countries are being destroyed by the islamists that want to become the next dictators like in Iran.

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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Looks like you did not get it either. So much for that 'high Chinese IQ'.


Autistic people normally live on their own world and they get their own ideas too. Lol


----------



## ZeGerman

RescueRanger said:


> Whilst I am very much pro-Ukraine from an ethical standpoint, I cannot agree with this categorisation of Russians as "subhuman", I appreciate its reciprocal because the Russians also use a pejorative when referring to Ukrainians but this categorisation of calling Russians "orcs" a subhuman species from Tolkien's book "The Book of Lost Tales".
> 
> When imagining what an evil, unflinching and fearsome army of ghastly soldiers would look like, especially soldiers who in his book " The book of lost tales" penned by Tolkien were beasts created by the first Dark Lord, Morgoth, before the First Age and served him and later his successor in their quest to dominate Middle-earth.
> 
> Tolkien's inspiration for the word "orc" came from an obscure name given to mythical creatures and literally meant "demon"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> orc | mythological creature
> 
> 
> orc, a mythical creature (such as a sea monster, a giant, or an ogre) of horrid form or aspect. The word orc in English has two distinct sources. Orc in reference to a vaguely cetacean sea monster is borrowed from one or more Romance words, such as the French orque or the Italian orca, all...
> 
> 
> 
> www.britannica.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly this behaviour of attributing "subhuman" traits to enemies was first seen in Heinrich Himmler’s pamphlet simply titled Der Untermensch "The Sub Human".
> 
> View attachment 862581
> View attachment 862580
> 
> 
> Of course you could argue this dehumanisation is important in war, after all it is harder to kill something when you see it as a living, breathing sentient being, and easier when it is seen as somehow an abomination or blight that must be gotten rid of. Either way it is bitter irony that in 2022 we are still using tactics adopted and perfected by Himmler to alienate the Jews 80 years ago.


He is talking about the russian occupation army, not the russians in general. 

In the 21st century such looters, rapist, and colonialists should be met with critiscism and ridicule. A name fitting their barbarity. 
I see nothing wrong here.


----------



## TNT

jhungary said:


> lol, my tear is from seeing you ask the mod to ban me or you leave and they did jack shit. Nothing get more tears out from that, it have nothing to do with Ukraine lol.
> 
> I don't care if you condemn Russia lol, as if that would change anything. I mean, would Ukraine lost because Pakistan refused to condemn Russia?? LOL



Seriously man, are u a 13 yo kid? U keep repeating urself like those kids fighting and u claim to be some kind of military expert? We have military guys here and everyone respects them, why? Because they behave like one. 
This is a news and update thread and u have given zero news or update and just trolling and cheerleading. Why dont u just keep to ur so called military expertise and update about the ground situation, if u can even do that and not engage in trolling and teenage fights. 

This thread have been blocked once because of ur unnecessary trolling and dumb arguments and fights. If u have something useful to share then plz do so but stop with ur cheerleading trolling or this thread might get blocked again.

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## Viet

Ukraine soon has more a means to defend itself against russian terror bombings. Germany begins this month the delivery of 30x "Gepard" flak tanks to Ukraine.
no problem with ammo. Norway produces the 35mm.









(S+) Ukrainekrieg: Bundesregierung sichert Munitionsnachschub für den Gepard


Deutschland hat ein Problem bei den Waffenlieferungen für die Ukraine gelöst. Nach SPIEGEL-Informationen hat sich endlich ein Hersteller gefunden, der frische Munition für den Gepard-Flugabwehrpanzer liefern kann.




www.spiegel.de


----------



## Bengal71

F-22Raptor said:


> The US could have stayed ad infinitum in Afghanistan. It was the Afghan Army that failed, not the US. We weren't going to hold their hands forever. Eventually, Afghans had to take responsibility for their own country. They failed.



Why did you hold their hands for 20 years then? You could just leave after 2/3 years. After you lost, now you say Afghan army failed. How is Afghan army's failure is not your failure, you are the one who created the Afghan army.



ZeGerman said:


> He is talking about the russian occupation army, not the russians in general.
> 
> In the 21st century *such looters, rapist, and colonialists *should be met with critiscism and ridicule. A name fitting their barbarity.
> I see nothing wrong here.



You mean American and European robbers, looter, rapists and colonialists?

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## Zarvan

vi-va said:


> In my humble opinion.
> 
> *Russia has lost the war politically and strategically, regardless the thrust towards The Dnieper River seems unstoppable.*
> 
> Attrition warfare is not in Russia's interest at all. Definitely the worst way to win the heart of Ukrainians. Russia original plan was a lightning war, but failed. Feel sorry for Russians.
> 
> The generals of Russia army and intelligence underestimated Ukraine, which is fatal.
> 
> *Never underestimate your rival.*


I agree. Russia underestimated Ukraine and its will to fight.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548644719336591365

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548679095223046145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548655153896722432

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## sammuel

Bengal71 said:


> Why did you hold their hands for 20 years then?



At least the American made an effort to put the afghan army on it's feet.

That is a lot more than what the Russians did in Afghanistan.

Russians invaded Afghanistan ( in the same manner they now invaded Ukraine ) , in order to conquer it. Yet i see no criticism about that. Strange.

~

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548670555884224515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548682131118899202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548661948652421123

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## MH.Yang

sammuel said:


> At least the American made an effort to put the afghan army on it's feet.
> 
> That is a lot more than what the Russians did in Afghanistan.
> 
> Russians invaded Afghanistan ( in the same manner they now invaded Ukraine ) , in order to conquer it. Yet i see no criticism about that. Strange.
> 
> ~


Americans stay in Afghanistan not to make Afghans stand up, but to plunder Afghanistan's resources. 

In 1950/1951, the Chinese army withdrew from North Korea after helping the Koreans repel the Americans. North Koreans can stand up by themselves, and we have not interfered with them. This is the real help.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Chechen warriors taking down the Banderas. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548684804509540354

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Autistic people normally live on their own world and they get their own ideas too. Lol


You must be speaking about yourself.

China's wealth *DEPENDS* on the democratic West. China's wealth is only one degree of separation from democracy. Without the consumerism of the democratic West, China would have *ZERO* resources upon which to learn and steal from in order to reform after the communist experiment disaster. Yeah...You definitely did not get it.

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## jhungary

TNT said:


> Seriously man, are u a 13 yo kid? U keep repeating urself like those kids fighting and u claim to be some kind of military expert? We have military guys here and everyone respects them, why? Because they behave like one.
> This is a news and update thread and u have given zero news or update and just trolling and cheerleading. Why dont u just keep to ur so called military expertise and update about the ground situation, if u can even do that and not engage in trolling and teenage fights.
> 
> This thread have been blocked once because of ur unnecessary trolling and dumb arguments and fights. If u have something useful to share then plz do so but stop with ur cheerleading trolling or this thread might get blocked again.




Dude, you are doing EXACTLY the same thing you accusing me of doing, why not just skip this post and post only Russian/Ukrainian war related incident instead of that if YOU HAD A PROBLEM WITH THAT TO BEGIN WITH?

And honestly, I don't really care if you respect me, you don't serve under my command, and I don't know you. You can think I am a clown (which is what I think of you) for all I care.

I do write technical article like this for Ukraine









How to lay an armored L-Shape Ambush in Ukraine?


Today, I am going to talk about how to ambush and react to ambush. And today, I am going to use an actual example when Ukraine Force ambush a 3 Tanks Russian Column to illustrate on how a Typical L-Shape Ambush was laid and how you can avoid or counter them. This is a very basic tactical stuff...



defence.pk





Have you? Maybe write something like that, then we can talk about Trolling.

BRAH

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## gambit

MH.Yang said:


> Americans stay in Afghanistan not to make Afghans stand up, but to plunder Afghanistan's resources.


Such as...???


----------



## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548644719336591365
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548679095223046145
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548655153896722432


Russia had to destroy almost all of Mariupol to capture a few vehicles and some used NLAWs.. Impressive.
And “_in Odessa, the warehouse that store Harpoon missiles was destroyed_”.. THE warehouse.. Why are you posting this made up Twitter BS like its the truth.
Fact is Russias offensive land grabbing has stalled. Theyre bombing ukrainian infrastructure out of desperation, calling it victory. In reality it is terrorbombing, and you and your twitter accounts are glorifying it.

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## jhungary

Type59 said:


> You don't care about fellow Americans. When the US invades another country in the Middle East, I bet Russians will be shipping boatloads of Atgms, drones etc for the rebels.
> 
> 
> 
> I wish the US military would be used to prevent gangs terrorising people in many US urban areas, the cartels killing Americans through powerful opioids and mass shootings.


You do know Russian invaded Middle East just as much as we do, right? Syria, Yeman, Afghanistan, Iran/Iraq just to name a few. So are you saying when they kill Muslim, that does not count??

LOL. I don't really care about dumbass comment like this as it is useless, I mean what really can you do by sending bad thought?? Does the US Army going to fail BECAUSE you are wishing ill for them?? Or would Russia somehow able to attack kyiv again because you send them your best thoughts??

If you want changes, go to Ukraine and fight for Russia, maybe that will change anything with that equation, sitting at your home in your pyjamas eating Cheetos while sending your best thought mean nothing when real people were there going down in a 2 way firing lanes. Well, at least I went there and try to teach them to kill more Russian, what are you going to do about it? Lay down your prayer mats and Pray?

Lol



MH.Yang said:


> Americans stay in Afghanistan not to make Afghans stand up, but to plunder Afghanistan's resources.
> 
> In 1950/1951, the Chinese army withdrew from North Korea after helping the Koreans repel the Americans. North Koreans can stand up by themselves, and we have not interfered with them. This is the real help.


Sure, explain to me why 4 out of 5 mining company have contract with China (the other have contract with India) instead of the US? When we are the one controlling their government??

What exactly did US plunder in Afghanistan? Bother to name a few??

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## sammuel

MH.Yang said:


> Americans stay in Afghanistan not to make Afghans stand up, but to plunder Afghanistan's resources.



Russians invaded Afghanistan ( in the same manner they now invaded Ukraine ) , in order to conquer it. Yet i see no criticism about that. Strange.


----------



## MH.Yang

gambit said:


> Such as...???


In July 2017, trump said that the USA has not done enough to develop Afghanistan's mineral resources.

Obviously, trump believes that the speed of looting should be accelerated.









Blood for minerals? The US returns to Afghanistan in search of mining profits


Afghanistan's mining sector is abuzz with news about US President Donald Trump's reported interest in its enormous mineral wealth. But how much of that wealth will trickle down to the Afghan people – and at what cost? Talk about Afghan minerals coincides with Trump's decision to send thousands...



www.equaltimes.org

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> In July 2017, trump said that the USA has not done enough to develop Afghanistan's mineral resources.
> 
> Obviously, trump believes that the speed of looting should be accelerated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blood for minerals? The US returns to Afghanistan in search of mining profits
> 
> 
> Afghanistan's mining sector is abuzz with news about US President Donald Trump's reported interest in its enormous mineral wealth. But how much of that wealth will trickle down to the Afghan people – and at what cost? Talk about Afghan minerals coincides with Trump's decision to send thousands...
> 
> 
> 
> www.equaltimes.org


lol

Read this article and tell me what US looted?









Why China is interested in Afganistan?


We have seen a number of developments in Afghanistan recently, after the US announced withdrawing its troops from the country. The Taliban took over Kabul almost immediately, resulting in chaos. While most of us are aware of the country’s violent geopolitical history, much more seems to be at...




 www.acuitykp.com


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> lol
> 
> Read this article and tell me what US looted?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why China is interested in Afganistan?
> 
> 
> We have seen a number of developments in Afghanistan recently, after the US announced withdrawing its troops from the country. The Taliban took over Kabul almost immediately, resulting in chaos. While most of us are aware of the country’s violent geopolitical history, much more seems to be at...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.acuitykp.com


The Chinese were invited to Afghanistan by the Taliban govt, while the Americans drove tanks to Afghanistan. 

We are different.

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## gambit

MH.Yang said:


> In July 2017, trump said that the USA has not done enough to develop Afghanistan's mineral resources.
> 
> Obviously, trump believes that the speed of looting should be accelerated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blood for minerals? The US returns to Afghanistan in search of mining profits
> 
> 
> Afghanistan's mining sector is abuzz with news about US President Donald Trump's reported interest in its enormous mineral wealth. But how much of that wealth will trickle down to the Afghan people – and at what cost? Talk about Afghan minerals coincides with Trump's decision to send thousands...
> 
> 
> 
> www.equaltimes.org


So the US did not 'steal' anything. All you have is the word of an ex-president on what the US should have done before he was in office, then he did nothing about it when he was in office.



MH.Yang said:


> The Chinese were invited to Afghanistan by the Taliban govt, while the Americans drove tanks to Afghanistan.
> 
> We are different.


If the Taliban allowed Al-Qaeda to attack Beijing ala Sept 11, 2001, we would see Chinese tanks thru Kabul.


----------



## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> The Chinese were invited to Afghanistan by the Taliban govt, while the Americans drove tanks to Afghanistan.
> 
> We are different.


You are talking abuot US plundering Afghan resource, I am asking you what the US plunder? When all the big contract were not awarded to the US company. Or are you saying the US corps of army engineer have digger in those mine and steal those ore from their mine shaft directly??

By the way, we can also smoothly "invite" US company instead of granting them mining right to the Chinese. Which is what we would do IF we were there to plunder the economy.

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## BHAN85

gambit said:


> You must be speaking about yourself.
> 
> China's wealth *DEPENDS* on the democratic West. China's wealth is only one degree of separation from democracy. Without the consumerism of the democratic West, China would have *ZERO* resources upon which to learn and steal from in order to reform after the communist experiment disaster. Yeah...You definitely did not get it.



The West has the monopoly of make luxury items that wish every ruling elite of this world, including the Chinese.

But Chinese common people could live happily in autarchy and just using energy and a few raw materials from a few foreign countries.

The problem is only for ruling elite, if they wants luxury things, like good cars, expensive clothes, and good health care, they need to buy those things in the west, and they need to sell things in the West to achieve those things.

Huawei 5G high profile espionage can change the things, if Chinese achieve all the Western know-how that they still dont have.

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## PakFactor

Bengal71 said:


> Why did you hold their hands for 20 years then? You could just leave after 2/3 years. After you lost, now you say Afghan army failed. How is Afghan army's failure is not your failure, you are the one who created the Afghan army.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean American and European robbers, looter, rapists and colonialists?



Their approach is like a failed business -- but they made some income everyday. Lol.

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## jhungary

As Ukrainian Pilot Training Passes House NDAA, Legislators Work to Overcome Roadblocks | Air & Space Forces Magazine


Congress moved closer to funding Ukrainian fighter pilots to train on F-16s, but hurdles remain over fears about escalation with Russia.




www.airforcemag.com





Seems like the bill to train Ukrainian pilot for F-15 and F-16 is going to pass.

Would be fun to watch @gambit

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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> As Ukrainian Pilot Training Passes House NDAA, Legislators Work to Overcome Roadblocks | Air & Space Forces Magazine
> 
> 
> Congress moved closer to funding Ukrainian fighter pilots to train on F-16s, but hurdles remain over fears about escalation with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.airforcemag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like the bill to train Ukrainian pilot for F-15 and F-16 is going to pass.
> 
> Would be fun to watch @gambit



I would not be surprised if the some of the former countries of the warsaw pact - have not already been training them on F16s.. expect their induction to be quick imho ..


----------



## NotSure

Crispy M777:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/w1dsqu

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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> Americans stay in Afghanistan not to make Afghans stand up, but to plunder Afghanistan's resources.
> 
> In 1950/1951, the Chinese army withdrew from North Korea after helping the Koreans repel the Americans. North Koreans can stand up by themselves, and we have not interfered with them. This is the real help.


Plunder what resources??? 
The what, two billion of minerals vs trillions cost? 


And i am sure the north koreans are very happy you left them in the careful hands of the godlike entities known as the “Kims”
And so So happy you drag north korean refugees back to their torture or death from time to time too. 
China moral world leader 🤣

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Plunder what resources???
> The what, two billion of minerals vs trillions cost?
> 
> 
> And i am sure the north koreans are very happy you left them in the careful hands of the godlike entities known as the “Kims”
> And so So happy you drag north korean refugees back to their torture or death from time to time too.
> China moral world leader 🤣



Still begging and pleading I see. How much do you guys get paid to spread your Western propaganda on this forum?

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Still begging and pleading I see. How much do you guys get paid to spread your Western propaganda on this forum?


Both iraq and afghanistan did not have their resources mined under occupation, and most of the contracts are now in chinese hands. 

The usa should have used “the russian way” forcefully relocate some rednecks to iraq and afghanistan. 
Then invade the country to “protect redneck country X” 
Annex as much as you can. Bomb the shit out of everything so 90% of the population is ethnically cleansed and your left with those rednecks. 
Then Drain every ounce from the land as you can.

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## RoadAmerica

MH.Yang said:


> Americans stay in Afghanistan not to make Afghans stand up, but to plunder Afghanistan's resources.
> 
> In 1950/1951, the Chinese army withdrew from North Korea after helping the Koreans repel the Americans. North Koreans can stand up by themselves, and we have not interfered with them. This is the real help.


🤣 tell me what resources they plundered? 
I’ll wait

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Both iraq and afghanistan did not have their resources mined under occupation, and most of the contracts are now in chinese hands.
> 
> The usa should have used “the russian way” forcefully relocate some rednecks to iraq and afghanistan.
> Then invade the country to “protect redneck country X”
> Annex as much as you can. Bomb the shit out of everything so 90% of the population is ethnically cleansed and your left with those rednecks.
> Then Drain every ounce from the land as you can.



Did you learn that from your media? The last time I checked the real plunderers were Western countries that colonized brown nations.

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## Iron Shrappenel

NotSure said:


> Crispy M777:
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/w1dsqu


I'm very sure that by the end of this conflict M777 will reach Meme status on PDF.

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## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> Both iraq and afghanistan did not have their resources mined under occupation, and most of the contracts are now in chinese hands.
> 
> The usa should have used “the russian way” forcefully relocate some rednecks to iraq and afghanistan.
> Then invade the country to “protect redneck country X”
> Annex as much as you can. Bomb the shit out of everything so 90% of the population is ethnically cleansed and your left with those rednecks.
> Then Drain every ounce from the land as you can.


as far as I'm aware its classic Yankee tactic, go read a little about Texas and Hawaii .


----------



## The SC

If we fight the Russians, we will lose..the United States cannot fight the Russian army: Ex-US Marine







At the Ron Paul Institute conference in Houston, former US Marine intelligence officer and former chief weapons inspector for the United Nations Scott Ritter made a stinging criticism of the Biden administration's policy toward Ukraine, stating bluntly, "If we fight the Russians, we will lose."

US intelligence officer Scott Ritter said:

“I fear that because of Biden's reckless policy, Putin will lose patience and hit America with cruise missiles. The only thing Biden has achieved from his policies is that the Russians hate him. The Russians will win their war, and no one will stop them.”

He said that the United States and NATO would be defeated by the Russians in any war.

He stressed that "the Ukrainian army is the strongest, most efficient and best army in Europe, capable of defeating all NATO armies (except for the United States and Turkey) and now being destroyed in front of the Russians."

He added: “What Russia is actually doing is a military operation, not a war. Everyone knows the real capabilities of the Russian army. The Russians are organized and ready to fight big wars all over Europe and they are training in Ukraine.”

He said that the officers of the Russian army are brave as they fight at the front with their soldiers.

He said the head of the European Union's Foreign Affairs Committee "told me that he is terrified by the course now in Europe, and says that Europe is impossible to defeat Russia."

He stressed that Russia is now a large and stable economic power..



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546278931376078848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505616308381134848
There is a massacre that took place in #Ukraine, known as the “Bucha massacre”

The Ukrainian army accused the Russian army of genocide; Because they found many civilian bodies there, especially since it was the headquarters of the Russian army's assembly near Kyiv.

But the American, Scott Ritter, stated that the Ukrainian police had liquidated those whom they accused of dealing with the Russians..



Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513589417746870279

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> If we fight the Russians, we will lose..the United States cannot fight the Russian army: Ex-US Marine
> 
> View attachment 862809
> 
> 
> At the Ron Paul Institute conference in Houston, former US Marine intelligence officer and former chief weapons inspector for the United Nations Scott Ritter made a stinging criticism of the Biden administration's policy toward Ukraine, stating bluntly, "If we fight the Russians, we will lose."
> 
> US intelligence officer Scott Ritter said:
> 
> “I fear that because of Biden's reckless policy, Putin will lose patience and hit America with cruise missiles. The only thing Biden has achieved from his policies is that the Russians hate him. The Russians will win their war, and no one will stop them.”
> 
> He said that the United States and NATO would be defeated by the Russians in any war.
> 
> He stressed that "the Ukrainian army is the strongest, most efficient and best army in Europe, capable of defeating all NATO armies (except for the United States and Turkey) and now being destroyed in front of the Russians."
> 
> He added: “What Russia is actually doing is a military operation, not a war. Everyone knows the real capabilities of the Russian army. The Russians are organized and ready to fight big wars all over Europe and they are training in Ukraine.”
> 
> He said that the officers of the Russian army are brave as they fight at the front with their soldiers.
> 
> He said the head of the European Union's Foreign Affairs Committee "told me that he is terrified by the course now in Europe, and says that Europe is impossible to defeat Russia."
> 
> He stressed that Russia is now a large and stable economic power..
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546278931376078848
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505616308381134848
> There is a massacre that took place in #Ukraine, known as the “Bucha massacre”
> 
> The Ukrainian army accused the Russian army of genocide; Because they found many civilian bodies there, especially since it was the headquarters of the Russian army's assembly near Kyiv.
> 
> But the American, Scott Ritter, stated that the Ukrainian police had liquidated those whom they accused of dealing with the Russians..
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513589417746870279


Scott Ritter .. Might aswell quote Putin.


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

Iron Shrappenel said:


> I'm very sure that by the end of this conflict M777 will reach Meme status on PDF.



Only 6 of 136 M777s have been lost. Ukraine still has the vast majority of their M777s.

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> Only 6 of 136 M777s have been lost. Ukraine still has the vast majority of their M777s.



Those M777s also don’t have there digital fire control systems so they aren’t being used to there full capability.


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


>


This guy is basically just parroting russian propaganda and Telegram hearsay. I have a better source. He is ukrainian, but doesnt shy away from criticising ukrainian authorities:

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548769250940256258
Another Russian ammo depot hit


----------



## The SC




----------



## MeFishToo

_Nabil_ said:


> Stupid and ignorant, Tunisia abolished slavery before the USA and most European countries ..... In 1846 for the people who wants to know ....


Why did the french have to announce a second abolition in Tunisia in 1890?

The point he was making was that the arab (and african) world traded slaves too, and everybody blames the west.


----------



## TNT

jhungary said:


> Dude, you are doing EXACTLY the same thing you accusing me of doing, why not just skip this post and post only Russian/Ukrainian war related incident instead of that if YOU HAD A PROBLEM WITH THAT TO BEGIN WITH?
> 
> And honestly, I don't really care if you respect me, you don't serve under my command, and I don't know you. You can think I am a clown (which is what I think of you) for all I care.
> 
> I do write technical article like this for Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to lay an armored L-Shape Ambush in Ukraine?
> 
> 
> Today, I am going to talk about how to ambush and react to ambush. And today, I am going to use an actual example when Ukraine Force ambush a 3 Tanks Russian Column to illustrate on how a Typical L-Shape Ambush was laid and how you can avoid or counter them. This is a very basic tactical stuff...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you? Maybe write something like that, then we can talk about Trolling.
> 
> BRAH



I never claimed to be a military expert and i mostly read this thread for info, i skipped loads of ur crap but all i see is u whinning and fighting like a teenage girl and its really irritating. So kindly dont pollute this thread. Also we dont want ur so called technical crap, share something authentic or new info or just shut up. Its like u r flamebaiting others to indulge in useless arguments that can result in blocking the thread once again. Its also pretty evident who the clown is. Kindly take ur circus somewhere else.

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## Type59

jhungary said:


> You do know Russian invaded Middle East just as much as we do, right? Syria, Yeman, Afghanistan, Iran/Iraq just to name a few. So are you saying when they kill Muslim, that does not count??
> 
> LOL. I don't really care about dumbass comment like this as it is useless, I mean what really can you do by sending bad thought?? Does the US Army going to fail BECAUSE you are wishing ill for them?? Or would Russia somehow able to attack kyiv again because you send them your best thoughts??
> 
> If you want changes, go to Ukraine and fight for Russia, maybe that will change anything with that equation, sitting at your home in your pyjamas eating Cheetos while sending your best thought mean nothing when real people were there going down in a 2 way firing lanes. Well, at least I went there and try to teach them to kill more Russian, what are you going to do about it? Lay down your prayer mats and Pray?
> 
> Lol
> 
> 
> Sure, explain to me why 4 out of 5 mining company have contract with China (the other have contract with India) instead of the US? When we are the one controlling their government??
> 
> What exactly did US plunder in Afghanistan? Bother to name a few??



Perfect example why Americans are so angry and shoot up fellow Americans. Why don't you use your training and anger in defeating gang violence and narco terrorism. Bunch of pussies, you second amendment types, more of a threat to your partner and family 

My prayers have been answered, 'Saint Javelin" will become Hizbul Javelin, in few years time. Hopefully Iranians will get examples of starstreak manpad.

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## MH.Yang

gambit said:


> So the US did not 'steal' anything. All you have is the word of an ex-president on what the US should have done before he was in office, then he did nothing about it when he was in office.
> 
> 
> If the Taliban allowed Al-Qaeda to attack Beijing ala Sept 11, 2001, we would see Chinese tanks thru Kabul.


So why did they attack New York instead of Beijing?

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## RescueRanger

Viet said:


> Oh that will become ugly. The Swiss becomes a new battlefield. Russia threatens Swiss over publishing a caricature on a newspaper.
> Will Swiss seek to join NATO?
> 
> 
> View attachment 862611


I don't think Russia will ever attack the Swiss overtly.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

France 24: VIDEO: “Russian armed forces continue to launch strikes on military installations in Ukraine . Long-range aerial missiles destroyed a depot at a factory in #Odessa which stored Harpoon anti-ship missiles delivered to Ukraine by #OTAN .”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548810904141176832

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## RescueRanger

So who did Jhungary piss off to get banned?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548813128871337984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548810567938342912

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548811040691032064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548792775168217088


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548715232389890048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548630788714938368


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548768907334385665

Their claims of freedom of speech and freedom expression are bogus. Look at how they're treating this young German woman who is a journalist and is in the Donbass region in order to reveal this side of the story. The Western elites don't want the plight of the Donbass people to be revealed to the world, and the root causes of the "Special Military Operation" that Russia is carrying out.









VIDEO: Germany criminalizes journalist for exposing Ukrainian war crimes - The Grayzone


Independent Donetsk-based journalist Alina Lipp of Germany details her prosecution by the German state for violating new speech codes through her reporting in the Donetsk People’s Republic. As the only German reporter on the ground in Donetsk, Lipp has exposed Ukrainian forces shelling...




thegrayzone.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548801581285609472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548751976078495746

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548744837339414530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548798251809357824

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----------



## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> You must be speaking about yourself.
> 
> China's wealth *DEPENDS* on the democratic West. China's wealth is only one degree of separation from democracy. Without the consumerism of the democratic West, China would have *ZERO* resources upon which to learn and steal from in order to reform after the communist experiment disaster. Yeah...You definitely did not get it.


You can be a democratic or autocratic consumer. China depends on the world for our wealth, not just the West. Did we point a gun on your head to buy our goods? Without us accepting dollars, your money becomes toilet paper. China is autocratic not communist. Do you see billionaires in Communist countries? We are a stateist capitalistic country. The only communist in us is the Party name. Since when am I a communist supporter? I support China not any ideology. Which cat catches mice is a good cat, we coined our ideology as gradual pragmatism

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548751060768006145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548835533870321664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548838732014292993


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548772225205035014

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> France 24: VIDEO: “Russian armed forces continue to launch strikes on military installations in Ukraine . Long-range aerial missiles destroyed a depot at a factory in #Odessa which stored Harpoon anti-ship missiles delivered to Ukraine by #OTAN .”
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548810904141176832


In the video they say "according to the Russian MoD".... So just BS.

Just like the Moskva was on its way to Sebastopol lmao.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> In the video they say "according to the Russian MoD".... So just BS.
> 
> Just like the Moskva was on its way to Sebastopol lmao.



Of course, as a Western propagandist, you would say that, but the Russian MOD is more credible than any Western news outlet. At least, the France 24 is quoting them, which is a step in the right direction. It looks like the West's blockade on anything coming out of Russia is being slowly lifted as the war drags on and the European public feels the pain.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548810700423921670

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548801719722704898

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548833076037443586

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## NotSure

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548768907334385665
> 
> Their claims of freedom of speech and freedom expression are bogus. Look at how they're treating this young German woman who is a journalist and is in the Donbass region in order to reveal this side of the story. The Western elites don't want the plight of the Donbass people to be revealed to the world, and the root causes of the "Special Military Operation" that Russia is carrying out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIDEO: Germany criminalizes journalist for exposing Ukrainian war crimes - The Grayzone
> 
> 
> Independent Donetsk-based journalist Alina Lipp of Germany details her prosecution by the German state for violating new speech codes through her reporting in the Donetsk People’s Republic. As the only German reporter on the ground in Donetsk, Lipp has exposed Ukrainian forces shelling...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thegrayzone.com


They are trying to put her in jail for "undermining the legitimacy of the press". This is what the state prosecutor literally said:








They lost their mind here in germany and are going full retard.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548696712860123137
Yet, the Western propagandists would record this attack on civilians as an attack on "ammunition depot" by the "HIMARS". They're shooting at randomly, hoping it will hit something that will show big explosions. And then the advertisement of the "HIMARS" would follow.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548891875968425984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548737578668593157

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548830458422743041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548846557721595905

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548902266840702976


The senile, old man lost the plot.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548858737124728832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548853373612412929

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Destruction of the stronghold of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Avdiivka direction.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548743782526509057
The inhabitants of Lisichansk: “We are Russians! With this, all is said!" Why did the Ukrainians call them “those who wait”? Full video at http://****/geoestrategia1


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548323263599718402
Another footage of the destruction of Ukrainian Armed Forces positions in Marinka by Russian artillery.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547539741180141568

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## Hassan Al-Somal

LPR and Russian forces entered Seversk, the city is under operational control, said a source close to the LPR People's Militia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547537741650460673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548861174434844672

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## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> as far as I'm aware its classic Yankee tactic, go read a little about Texas and Hawaii .


Hmm so wrongdoings by america in 1850 and 1890 sure do justify russia doing the same in 2022 ukraine!? 

I literally stated what a shame it is this is happening in the 21th century. You missed that?

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## zhxy

ZeGerman said:


> Hmm so wrongdoings by america in 1850 and 1890 sure do justify russia doing the same in 2022 ukraine!?
> 
> I literally stated what a shame it is this is happening in the 21th century. You missed that?



Big fish eats small fish. That is the law of nature.
Justice always wins. The winner is justice


----------



## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> If we fight the Russians, we will lose..the United States cannot fight the Russian army: Ex-US Marine
> 
> View attachment 862809
> 
> 
> At the Ron Paul Institute conference in Houston, former US Marine intelligence officer and former chief weapons inspector for the United Nations Scott Ritter made a stinging criticism of the Biden administration's policy toward Ukraine, stating bluntly, "If we fight the Russians, we will lose."
> 
> US intelligence officer Scott Ritter said:
> 
> “I fear that because of Biden's reckless policy, Putin will lose patience and hit America with cruise missiles. The only thing Biden has achieved from his policies is that the Russians hate him. The Russians will win their war, and no one will stop them.”
> 
> He said that the United States and NATO would be defeated by the Russians in any war.
> 
> He stressed that "the Ukrainian army is the strongest, most efficient and best army in Europe, capable of defeating all NATO armies (except for the United States and Turkey) and now being destroyed in front of the Russians."
> 
> He added: “What Russia is actually doing is a military operation, not a war. Everyone knows the real capabilities of the Russian army. The Russians are organized and ready to fight big wars all over Europe and they are training in Ukraine.”
> 
> He said that the officers of the Russian army are brave as they fight at the front with their soldiers.
> 
> He said the head of the European Union's Foreign Affairs Committee "told me that he is terrified by the course now in Europe, and says that Europe is impossible to defeat Russia."
> 
> He stressed that Russia is now a large and stable economic power..
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546278931376078848
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505616308381134848
> There is a massacre that took place in #Ukraine, known as the “Bucha massacre”
> 
> The Ukrainian army accused the Russian army of genocide; Because they found many civilian bodies there, especially since it was the headquarters of the Russian army's assembly near Kyiv.
> 
> But the American, Scott Ritter, stated that the Ukrainian police had liquidated those whom they accused of dealing with the Russians..
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513589417746870279


Hahahaha scott ritter…what a joke of a source. 

Instead of copy pasting propaganda, do you really believe ukraine is the strongest nato state? britain? France? 
Stronger then 30 european countries together? 

I assume you can count right? Military equipment and expenditure? 


And russia beating whole nato? A joke. 
Russia has its nuclear weapons…else it would have been leveled out of ukraine already. All those km of columns stuck on the roads. Would be death highway times 10.

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## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> Hmm so wrongdoings by america in 1850 and 1890 sure do justify russia doing the same in 2022 ukraine!?
> 
> I literally stated what a shame it is this is happening in the 21th century. You missed that?


did they do that , show us evidence of they migrate Russian there to change the population demographic there.
in fact any migration i saw there was the Russian ethnics migrate to Russia to escape Ukrainian bombing in last 8 year . but you certainly don't heat anything of that in Europe and USA news outlets.

and you claimed that's a Russian tactic I point out that's a classic textbook USA tactics .
about usa warmongering in 1850 & 1890 it suffice to say since WW2 they directly or indirectly intervened , bombed and destroyed 90 country

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## ZeGerman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548697349676998656
Interesting analysis. Lets see the autumn months. 

If the ukranian counter offensive doesnt progress i think european political pressure to end the war on terms more beneficial to russia would be quite high. 
“We are just prolonging the war now”
And 
“These sanctions hurt us more then them” 




I am greatly dissapointed by the weak drive and preparation to really prepare to be ready for 0 russian gas…..
Its all so slow and weak response…”please shower less!” Advice is where we are at ffs….
these weak leaders are not used to, or not realising we are in a war. And in a gas crisis. 

Isolate massively, reduce use, start pumping extra, force companies to do so if needed (where is the american LNG/fracking??) strongarm OPEC. 
Be ready to go without russian gas ASAP…and THEN cut it off on our terms. 
Not have a big mouth, then being completely unprepeared and basically end up having to finance russias war. 

Oil, gold, personal funds, these are all less effective as russia can sell it elsewhere.
Gas (10 times pipe capacity towards china) is where it hurts. And now it is hurting europe where russia can just slowly reduce it while fetching ridiculous prices for the remainder.



Hack-Hook said:


> did they do that , show us evidence of they migrate Russian there to change the population demographic there.
> in fact any migration i saw there was the Russian ethnics migrate to Russia to escape Ukrainian bombing in last 8 year . but you certainly don't heat anything of that in Europe and USA news outlets.
> 
> and you claimed that's a Russian tactic I point out that's a classic textbook USA tactics .
> about usa warmongering in 1850 & 1890 it suffice to say since WW2 they directly or indirectly intervened , bombed and destroyed 90 country


Holodomor ring a bell? Forced population relication soviet time ring a bell? 

This is where all those russian minorities come from, and this is the excuse they used for invasion…in 2022…

And stop with these lies about the “poor donbass” i read the UN report which is so often being abused here….
majority of casualties were on hands of the seperatists….

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## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> did they do that , show us evidence of they migrate Russian there to change the population demographic there.
> in fact any migration i saw there was the Russian ethnics migrate to Russia to escape Ukrainian bombing in last 8 year . but you certainly don't heat anything of that in Europe and USA news outlets.
> 
> and you claimed that's a Russian tactic I point out that's a classic textbook USA tactics .
> about usa warmongering in 1850 & 1890 it suffice to say since WW2 they directly or indirectly intervened , bombed and destroyed 90 country


Bombing everything. Forcing the ukrainian population to flee. A minor pro-russian part is staying. They greet the russians. Russian passports handed out. Demographic changed.
Lying about ukrainians bombing civilians for 8 years doesnt make it true. We all know Russia instigated and supported this conflict, which is why no independent media were allowed to enter and report or verify these claimed atrocities.


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## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> Bombing everything. Forcing the ukrainian population to flee. A minor pro-russian part is staying. They greet the russians. Russian passports handed out. Demographic changed.


so they must not bomb the positions of enemy, its Ukrainian who must be blamed for those areas bombings if any one to be blamed.
if you can support usa bombing of cities our Israel bombings of anything then why not Russian bombing


MeFishToo said:


> Lying about ukrainians bombing civilians for 8 years doesnt make it true. We all know Russia instigated and supported this conflict, which is why no independant media were allowed to enter and report or verify these claimed atrocities.


yeah that's lie . because there is no mention of it in biased western media
and this conflict started 8 years ago when Ukraine banned Russian language in Russian speaking areas.

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## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> so they must not bomb the positions of enemy, its Ukrainian who must be blamed for those areas bombings if any one to be blamed.
> if you can support usa bombing of cities our Israel bombings of anything then why not Russian bombing
> 
> yeah that's lie . because there is no mention of it in biased western media
> and this conflict started 8 years ago when Ukraine banned Russian language in Russian speaking areas.


Exactly why is it any of Russias business, besides they wanted to control Ukraine?
Eastern Ukraine was mentioned in the west, reported from where reporters were allowed access. Now tell me why the russian would not allow independent media reporting from the russian side?
Russia is areabombing entire cities calling it “enemy positions” because 1) they cant do precision strikes 2) they simply dont care.


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## kingQamaR

Russia has lowered it's aims since it became obvious that unlike the 2 previous landgrabs this time Ukraine was prepared. So they couldn't take Kyiv and lost men and equipment. Now, with more realistic target they expect the world to believe that's what they intended all along. School playground behaviour.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548946891601317888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548931978787000320

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## Lehrasap

_Nabil_ said:


> I gave him an example of my country, Tunisia an Arab country, that fully abolished slavery in 1846 before 99% of the western world.



You are totally delusional if you think that Tunisia abolished slavery without being getting convinced and impressed from the MOVEMENT against slavery which started in Europe and almost all the European countries abolished slavery completely (or at least partially) before Tunisia.

Here is the Timeline of Abolishing Slavery, and you can see this movement started in Europe in 15th century, and almost all European countries are ahead of Tunisia in abolishing it or bringing some kinds of reforms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_abolition_of_slavery_and_serfdom

For sure, religion of Islam has nothing to do with this modern movement of abolishing slavery, as all the Arab countries (and also Islamic countries all over the world) showed no such movement till 14th century.

In fact, real Arabic countries (i.e. Saudi Arabia and its neighbors) were opposing the abolishing of slavery, as it was considered as Halal Allah. Thus, it was only 1963 when Saudia was compelled to accept the abolishing of slavery under Western pressure.

Thus, when one says that Arab and Islamic countries were compelled to abolish slavery, then he is right in saying it, while Tunisia will only be counted at maximum as an exception.

And Islamic countries should be thankful to this modern Western movement against slavery, otherwise, when Western world occupied all the Muslim countries, they would have also made Muslims slaves, just like Muslim Sultans were doing during the last 1400 years history of Islam where they raped the prisoner women in name of slavery.

And Western world abolished the blasphemy laws, but they should have also compelled Islamic countries too to abolish the blasphemy laws. In the presence of blasphemy laws, no just criticism of Islam is possible, and no just debate can take place as Muslims always start blaming every criticism of Islam to be blasphemy and start killing others.

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## Viet

NotSure said:


> They are trying to put her in jail for "undermining the legitimacy of the press". This is what the state prosecutor literally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They lost their mind here in germany and are going full retard.


I don´t know what she said on social media however if she posts contents and speeches that promote the russia war of aggression - as accused- then the state presecutor is right to act against her. why complaint? she can file a lawsuit. you mean living in a free country you can do what you want? we are not living in a free jungle. don´t fall into primitive russian propapanda. by the way calling war as war in Russia can put you into siberia gulag. be warned.


----------



## RoadAmerica

zhxy said:


> Big fish eats small fish. That is the law of nature.
> Justice always wins. The winner is justice


Nice justification 🙄
The thinking of a 12 year old on display


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548522608005718018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548523449169100800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548762059034136577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548762059034136577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548768199214235651


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> so they must not bomb the positions of enemy, its Ukrainian who must be blamed for those areas bombings if any one to be blamed.
> if you can support usa bombing of cities our Israel bombings of anything then why not Russian bombing
> 
> yeah that's lie . because there is no mention of it in biased western media
> and this conflict started 8 years ago when Ukraine banned Russian language in Russian speaking areas.


This conflict started when Putin bribed/blackmailed Yanukovich to sign a deal with Russia against agreements made in Ukraine.



_Nabil_ said:


> You are in my ignore list, and this post just confirmed to me that your are only good @ writing shīt posts, that's your level 🤣
> 
> Countries been making special slavery laws for centuries, the *total, final &* *full* *abolishing* law is what counts.



That was 1335 In Sweden.


----------



## SalarHaqq

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547985394171383812
> For all of the macho talk in social media, he got beat up by an ordinary guy. ROFL





> He is beaten by a regular guy,imagine fighting someone from Spetsnaz

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548956955569524736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548947332330360834


----------



## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548891875968425984
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548737578668593157
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548830458422743041
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548846557721595905


name badge on the shirt reads Збройні сили України / _Zbroyni Syly Ukrayiny_ = Ukrainian Armed Forces


----------



## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> Who is retarded here? “Before 99% western world”????
> 
> the western superpowers at the time:
> France abolished slave trade in 1818
> Great britian, 1833, and started putting pressure on others to end it.
> So no, majority west already abolished it….
> 
> Then as a reaction comes tiny insignificant tunisia in 1846.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> windowTitle
> 
> 
> [Description meta content here]
> 
> 
> 
> m.florida.universitypressscholarship.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let alone the other major muslim slavers who happily kept on slaving for a while.
> 
> Stop your BS and take a look at your real history.
> Yet somehow everyone acts as if “white man” is the racist slaver and “rest world” are poor innocent victims.
> I dont know how you guys managed to dodge larger attention/critiscism for the arab slave trade….but the amoubt of denial and lack of regret/accountability for it is disgusting


The Han nationality in China abolished slavery as early as the Han Dynasty (200 BC).

However, the time when slavery was abolished in other Chinese nationality was different.

The last to abolish slavery was the Tibetan nationality, who abolished slavery in 1959.

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547985394171383812
> For all of the macho talk in social media, he got beat up by an ordinary guy. ROFL


Look at his proxemics - the man has never been in a street fight in his life. Also throwing haymakers ... xD All these people make me laugh.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549024471058636800

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## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> Exactly why is it any of Russias business, besides they wanted to control Ukraine?
> Eastern Ukraine was mentioned in the west, reported from where reporters were allowed access. Now tell me why the russian would not allow independent media reporting from the russian side?
> Russia is areabombing entire cities calling it “enemy positions” because 1) they cant do precision strikes 2) they simply dont care.


well as far as i'm aware russian allow western reporters to go to eastern ukraine . sadly their respective government passed some laws that if they go there and report the truth they face sup to several years in prison.

and about why is it any Russia business part , are you serrious


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549035451150790656


----------



## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> well as far as i'm aware russian allow western reporters to go to eastern ukraine . sadly their respective government passed some laws that if they go there and report the truth they face sup to several years in prison.
> 
> and about why is it any Russia business part , are you serrious


Yes I am totally serious. Russia has no business in Ukraine. Its all constructed arguments. A fabrication meant to justify Russias ambitions. The russian government (Putin) doesnt even have the courage to admit to the russian population what they are doing in Ukraine, and the population pretends they are unaware. Its pathetic.

Youre just aware that a few pro-russian puppets, pretending to be journalist, were allowed to report what they were told. No independent media reported any of the russian fabricated stories of atrocities committed by ukrainians.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548742957829955584


MeFishToo said:


> Yes I am totally serious. Russia has no business in Ukraine. Its all constructed arguments. A fabrication meant to justify Russias ambitions. The russian government (Putin) doesnt even have the courage to admit to the russian population what they are doing in Ukraine, and the population pretends they are unaware. Its pathetic.
> 
> Youre just aware that a few pro-russian puppets, pretending to be journalist, were allowed to report what they were told. No independent media reported any of the russian fabricated stories of atrocities committed by ukrainians.



Russia invokes UN charter protecting Donbas civilians from Kiev regime artillery. It is legal under international law. Same justification the US invoked to invade Serbia to protect Kosovars from Serbs and invade Iraq to protect Kurds from Arabs. Same justification Turkey made to invade Cyprus to protect Turks from Greeks.


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548742957829955584
> 
> 
> Russia invokes UN charter protecting Donbas civilians from Kiev regime artillery. It is legal under international law. Same justification the US invoked to invade Serbia to protect Kosovars from Serbs and invade Iraq to protect Kurds from Arabs. Same justification Turkey made to invade Cyprus to protect Turks from Greeks.


why dont you just go tell someone who cares about you propaganda. I thought you were banned.


----------



## Paul2

Kyselivka, Kherson. Ukrainians took it again, Russians retreated again, and restarted the shelling, while taking counterbat fire, and losing at least 1 artillery piece

This is happening for the 10th time or so.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Iron Shrappenel said:


> I'm very sure that by the end of this conflict M777 will reach Meme status on PDF.



I think you meant Meh Meh status


----------



## SalarHaqq

MH.Yang said:


> So why did they attack New York instead of Beijing?



Because Chinese internal security is competent enough to avert large scale al-CIA-da attacks in Beijing. So the US oligarchy had to resort to staging a Hollywoodesque false flag operation in New York (remember the Project for a New American Century's pre-9/11 assessment that a "new Pearl Harbor" would be needed to make possible the multiple wars of aggression planned by the US regime in West Asia and North Africa (Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan, Somalia etc)).

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549027833791791104

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> why dont you just go tell someone who cares about you propaganda. I thought you were banned.



Even Nazis allowed free speech. If you choose to live in the West, at least learn some Western values.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Even Nazis allowed free speech. If you choose to live in the West, at least learn some Western values.



West beleives in "Do what I say, Not what I do"


----------



## mulj

ZeGerman said:


> So was castrating many african male slaves in the arab slave trade progressive?
> The demand for harem girls?
> Having them walk through arid areas in line, many succombing to the elements?
> 
> Is it progressive the saidis had slavery till middle 1900s?
> Or as soon as a new islamic theocratic state was formed with ISIS we saw that progressive slavery again?
> 
> I assume your response will be a “no true scotsman fallacy”?


On what basis you are condemning it? Your first neighbor had humans caged as animals for common people amusment only couple of decades ago. So who are you to give moral judgemenst as european who conducted all imaginable and unimaginable crimes during history.

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## KingMamba

RescueRanger said:


> Look at his proxemics - the man has never been in a street fight in his life. Also throwing haymakers ... xD All these people make me laugh.


The black guy may have been a normal guy but hes trained in boxing he did a switch halfway through the video which a non boxer would not execute so smoothly.


----------



## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549027833791791104



Russians said their UKR troops, seen video before. Both sides get confused about origin of videos.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549046522779779073


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Terminator tank killers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548358977909428228

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548980285991428096


----------



## ZeGerman

mulj said:


> On what basis you are condemning it? Your first neighbor had humans caged as animals for common people amusment only couple of decades ago. So who are you to give moral judgemenst as european who conducted all imaginable and unimaginable crimes during history.



I was critisizing russia to which I get black kettled as “racist/colonialist” europe. 
Then i point out that arabs have an equally pitch black History, to which i first get reactions ranging from pure denial, to utter historical fantasy, to “no true scotsman fallacy”, to now this…who am I to condemn?

You guys are just physically unable to admit any faults, unable to look in the mirror?? 
“Our hundreds and hundreds of years of slavery till the christians made us stop was very progressive and uplifting”
Wow…just wow…speechless.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548767633968963589


----------



## mulj

ZeGerman said:


> I was critisizing russia to which I get black kettled as “racist/colonialist” europe.
> Then i point out that arabs have an equally pitch black History, to which i first get reactions ranging from pure denial, to utter historical fantasy, to “no true scotsman fallacy”, to now this…who am I to condemn?
> 
> You guys are just physically unable to admit any faults, unable to look in the mirror??
> “Our hundreds and hundreds of years of slavery till the christians made us stop was very progressive and uplifting”
> Wow…just wow…speechless.


Listen i do not give a dim for russia european former best friend, for sure i do not like them more then you ever will but that is other story, i asked simple question and you are not able to answer it properly.
I am talking about principles not people and was pretty clear about it in my initial post which you choose to strawman poorly.

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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> The Han nationality in China abolished slavery as early as the Han Dynasty (200 BC).
> 
> However, the time when slavery was abolished in other Chinese nationality was different.
> 
> The last to abolish slavery was the Tibetan nationality, who abolished slavery in 1959.


China has always been more focused on itself as “empire of the middle” then being overly expansionistic. 

Historically it has been far less damaging to other nations/people then many other historical empires.


----------



## RescueRanger

KingMamba said:


> The black guy may have been a normal guy but hes trained in boxing he did a switch halfway through the video which a non boxer would not execute so smoothly.


The man in the blue was not a "normal" guy. He was your typical Street fighter. Queensbury and dojo rules don't apply in street fight. 

If you can't even protect your head or flank, your're not really a fighter. The man in the tactical clothing was a poser. 

After you have been kicked a couple of times in the face, you learn to hit first, hit fast, hit dirty. 

There are no gentlemen rules in a streetfight. Speaking from experience as I have been stabbed in street fight and learned from that experience.


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## SalarHaqq

kingQamaR said:


> Russia has lowered it's aims since it became obvious that unlike the 2 previous landgrabs this time Ukraine was prepared. So they couldn't take Kyiv and lost men and equipment. Now, with more realistic target they expect the world to believe that's what they intended all along. School playground behaviour.



In geographical terms, Russia has actually expanded its war objectives. When researching a warring party's objectives, one has to look at public statements from political officials, rather than what analysts postulate (especially in this case, where there's a media war going on and certain western regimes don't hesitate to prosecute journalists whose reporting they find issue with).

Based on official statements, the Russian Federation initially believed that crushing the heavy concentration of Ukrainian forces in the Donbas would suffice to fulfill its political goals of demilitarizing and denazifying Ukraine.

Then in April 2022, Russian general Minnekayev declared that from then on, the goal would be to substract the entire south of Ukraine from the Kiev regime's control and to advance all the way to the border with Transnistria.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/russia...f-donbas-and-southern-ukraine---ifax/47536306

There is no evidence (let alone an official statement) to the effect that Russia aimed to take Kiev at the onset of the conflict. In fact it is extremely unlikely given that 40.000 troops would have nowhere enough to conquer an urban center the size of Kiev defended by some 80.000 or more well equipped units, and the fact certainly wasn't lost on Russian decision makers. No professional military planner would envisage such an undertaking, the classic rule of thumb being that an attacking force needs thrice as many men to succeed against entrenched defenders ie Russia would have had to mobilize some 240.000 forces for this battle.

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## Soldier35

Footage of the destruction of the Ukrainian armored vehicle "Kozak 2M.1" by the Russian army has been published. The armored vehicle "Kozak 2M.1" was introduced in 2016, depending on the configuration, small arms or a 40-mm UAG-40 automatic grenade launcher can be installed on it. In this video, a 12.7 mm heavy machine gun is mounted on an armored vehicle. Depending on the modification, the armored vehicle can carry up to 15 paratroopers. The price of the armored car is 318 thousand dollars.






Soldiers of the Ukrainian army published footage of the destroyed American howitzer M777 in Ukraine. The M777 howitzer was reportedly destroyed during counter-battery firing by Russian artillery.






The first American M270 MLRS arrived in Ukraine from Britain, Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov said. In addition, the US and NATO will provide Ukraine with data from their satellite systems to target these MLRS strikes. The installations will also be supplied with ATACMS Block IA missiles with a target engagement range of up to 80 km. The release of the MLRS M270 began in 1982, now it is in service with 17 countries. Despite its considerable age, the M270 retains its high fighting qualities. The MLRS chassis is unified with the M2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicle, which simplifies operation. The M270 multiple launch rocket system does not have rocket launchers. Instead, the M269 module is used, made in the form of an armored box with seats for transport and launch containers. The MLRS contains two containers, which makes it possible to fire a salvo of 12 227 mm caliber missiles at a range of 10 to 150 km for new missiles manufactured in 2022. After firing, the container is removed, and a new one is installed in its place. Thanks to this architecture, the MLRS can also launch two MGM-140 ATACMS operational-tactical missiles with a caliber of 610 mm, at a distance of up to 270 km. MLRS preparation time for firing: 2 minutes, cruising range: 500 km, M270 MLRS cost $ 4 million.

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## kingQamaR

SalarHaqq said:


> In geographical terms, Russia has actually expanded its war objectives. When determining war objectives, one has to look at public statements from political officials, rather than what analysts postulate (especially in this case, where there's a media war going on and certain western regimes don't hesitate to prosecute journalists whose reporting they find issue with).
> 
> Based on official statements, the Russian Federation initially believed that crushing the heavy concentration of Ukrainian forces in the Donbas would suffice to fulfill its political goals of demilitarizing and denazifying Ukraine.
> 
> Then in April 2022, Russian general Minnekayev declared that from then on, the goal would be to extract the entire south of Ukraine from the control of the Kiev regime and to advance all the way to the border with Transnistria.
> 
> https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/russia...f-donbas-and-southern-ukraine---ifax/47536306
> 
> There is no evidence (let alone an official statement) to the effect that Russia aimed to take control of the city of Kiev at the onset of the conflict. In fact it is extremely unlikely given that 40.000 troops are nowhere enough to conquer an urban location defended by some 80.000 well equipped units, and the fact certainly wasn't lost on Russian decision makers. No serious professional military planner would envisage such an undertaking, the classic rule of thumb being that an attacking force needs thrice as many men to succeed against entrenched defenders ie Russia would have had to mobilize some 240.000 forces for this battle.



They weren't able to take it on the onset of the war, because Ukraine put up stiff resistance and because Russian Battalion Tactical Groups (BTGs) and the units within, operated with near tactical independence with underprepared troops.Since they weren't able to take it early on, they could only hope to surround and destroy it block by block (see Mariupol)- and Russia simply didn't have the resources to wage that sort of battle against a city the size of Kyiv

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548976838302928896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548786157789581313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548775625019768835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549010842569646080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548975963136225280


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## SalarHaqq

kingQamaR said:


> They weren't able to take it on the onset of the war, because Ukraine put up stiff resistance and because Russian Battalion Tactical Groups (BTGs) and the units within, operated with near tactical independence with underprepared troops.Since they weren't able to take it early on, they could only hope to surround and destroy it block by block (see Mariupol)- and Russia simply didn't have the resources to wage that sort of battle against a city the size of Kyiv



Question is, what evidence is there that Russia sought to take the city of Kiev or thought it could do so with only about 40.000 troops? Moving forces into that direction onto itself doesn't prove such an intention, because diversion is part of maneuver warfare and thus a plausible hypothesis. Moreover with the discrepancy of troop numbers in mind, I doubt Russian planners could be suspected of being amateurs to be point of ignoring the basics (like the 3:1 ratio mentioned above).

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549074489102704640


----------



## The SC




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548974277730648065


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russians 'shoot down their own SU-34 bomber’ in Ukraine​









Putin humiliated as Russians 'shoot down their own SU-34 bomber'


VLADIMIR PUTIN'S forces shot their own SU-34 bomber down during fighting in Ukraine's eastern Luhansk region, according to reports.




www.express.co.uk





Own goal - must have been trained by Indians ....

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## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> Question is, what evidence is there that Russia sought to take the city of Kiev or thought it could do so with only about 40.000 troops? Moving forces into that direction onto itself doesn't prove such an intention, because diversion is part of maneuver warfare and thus a plausible hypothesis. Moreover with the discrepancy of troop numbers in mind, I doubt Russian planners could be suspected of being amateurs to be point of ignoring the basics (like the 3:1 ratio mentioned above).


These basics are very often proven wrong when there is a large difference in morale.
Isis took Mosul with 1:20 odds for instance. 

Russia took crimea and part kherson oblast on 1:1 basis with losing only a handfull of troops and almost no fight being put up by defenders. 
Clearly they expected similar, that is why they hurried their paratroopers, columns, sof towards and into kiev. Despose the government, done in a week. It worked in Cherson…

there is no way this was done as some “chess play distraction” cause the losses were immense and often from elite troop/material.


----------



## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> They weren't able to take it on the onset of the war, because Ukraine put up stiff resistance and because Russian Battalion Tactical Groups (BTGs) and the units within, operated with near tactical independence with underprepared troops.Since they weren't able to take it early on, they could only hope to surround and destroy it block by block (see Mariupol)- and Russia simply didn't have the resources to wage that sort of battle against a city the size of Kyiv


by factual assessments those 40km convoy carried the occupation administration force of Kiew. those delusional folks thought no fighting was needed, they really believed they came and could stage a victory parade on the main streets. that is why they just lined up. well, then came the ukraine artilley fires.

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## kingQamaR

SalarHaqq said:


> Question is, what evidence is there that Russia sought to take the city of Kiev or thought it could do so with only about 40.000 troops? Moving forces into that direction onto itself doesn't prove such an intention, because diversion is part of maneuver warfare and thus a plausible hypothesis. Moreover with the discrepancy of troop numbers in mind, I doubt Russian planners could be suspected of being amateurs to be point of ignoring the basics (like the 3:1 ratio mentioned above).



So.

In order to believe that the Russian forces never intended to take Kyiv, you have to believe that the Russians committed their most elite units to the diversionary battle (rather than the real battle), and that these were intended, fully and completely, as a sacrifice (because there was never going to be a serious effort to relieve them).

Does that sound credible to you?


----------



## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> Yes I am totally serious. Russia has no business in Ukraine. Its all constructed arguments. A fabrication meant to justify Russias ambitions. The russian government (Putin) doesnt even have the courage to admit to the russian population what they are doing in Ukraine, and the population pretends they are unaware. Its pathetic.
> 
> Youre just aware that a few pro-russian puppets, pretending to be journalist, were allowed to report what they were told. No independent media reported any of the russian fabricated stories of atrocities committed by ukrainians.


and you are aware that the western journalist don't dare go there not because of Russia but because of fear of prosecution in their own country.

and how come Nato could intervene 12000km away from their land whenever they want but russia cant intervene at its border. since when one become holier than the other one.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Even Nazis allowed free speech. If you choose to live in the West, at least learn some Western values.


Free speech doesnt mean I have to believe what ever some authoritan regime wants me to believe. You live in the west, or atleast pretend to do, so dont waste your time lecturing me what free speech is all about. I know nothing else. I was born here. Maybe thats why I wonder why anyone would even consider the BS you promote as anything remotely close to the truth.



Hack-Hook said:


> and you are aware that the western journalist don't dare go there not because of Russia but because of fear of prosecution in their own country.
> 
> and how come Nato could intervene 12000km away from their land whenever they want but russia cant intervene at its border. since when one become holier than the other one.


Exactly why are you trying to justify russian exapansionism with whatever you claim NATO did or did not?


----------



## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> So.
> 
> In order to believe that the Russian forces never intended to take Kyiv, you have to believe that the Russians committed their most elite units to the diversionary battle (rather than the real battle), and that these were intended, fully and completely, as a sacrifice (because there was never going to be a serious effort to relieve them).
> 
> Does that sound credible to you?



Is it me or has the media overall toned down coverage of this conflict.
As stated many times the West has completed it goal of keeping Russia engaged, and they've used Slavic's against each other.

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## SalarHaqq

kingQamaR said:


> So.
> 
> In order to believe that the Russian forces never intended to take Kyiv, you have to believe that the Russians committed their most elite units to the diversionary battle (rather than the real battle), and that these were intended, fully and completely, as a sacrifice (because there was never going to be a serious effort to relieve them).
> 
> Does that sound credible to you?



For the diversion to be effective, Russia needed to have the Ukrainians wonder whether it was not indeed planning a thrust into Kiev proper. An elite tank division and some special forces taking part in the operation would create uncertainty about Moscow's intentions, ie would raise the question whether further reinforcements were going to follow. Whereas 40.000 regular conscripts alone would not represent a realistic enough invading force against the city of Kiev. The number of elite units Russia lost in the process was not unexpendable.

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## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> For the diversion to be effective, Russia needed to have the Ukrainians wonder whether it could not indeed be aiming at a thrust into Kiev proper. An elite tank division and some special forces taking part in the operation would create uncertainty about Moscow's intentions, ie would raise the question whether further reinforcements were going to follow. Whereas 40.000 regular conscripts alone would not be realistic enough for an invading force against the city of Kiev. Russian did not lose an unreplaceable amount of elite units in the process.


But why they even needed that diversion? Blitzkrieg the donbass??
With the way they were operating. Massing troops…then artillery pounding…
Could have just done that on day 1. And this way be more justified in the “freeing donbass angle” instead of setting off red alarms everywhere in europe and handing zelenski enormous support. 

All points to russia thinking they could rush this and suprise an unprepared and generally unwilling to fight ukraine. Then before EU has finished their debates on sanctions/response…war would have been finished. 

Crimea annexation gave them this wrong idea.


----------



## MeFishToo

SalarHaqq said:


> For the diversion to be effective, Russia needed to have the Ukrainians wonder whether it could not indeed be aiming at a thrust into Kiev proper. An elite tank division and some special forces taking part in the operation would create uncertainty about Moscow's intentions, ie would raise the question whether further reinforcements were going to follow. Whereas 40.000 regular conscripts alone would not be realistic enough for an invading force against the city of Kiev. Russian did not lose an unreplaceable amount of elite units in the process.


Russian paratroopers dropped by 100 helicopters at airports north and south of Kiev while 1/3 of the russian forces were trying to reinforce them.. And it was just a diversion of an attack in Donbass being somewhat succesfull months later when those forces towards Kiev were relocated south… right.


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## kingQamaR

PakFactor said:


> Is it me or has the media overall toned down coverage of this conflict.
> As stated many times the West has completed it goal of keeping Russia engaged, and they've used Slavic's against each other.



I agree to, Picking Countries off one by one has been the American way of conducting endless Wars to keep the defence industry in business.. but On Ukraine, nothing to do with cia this one is solely down to Putins own insecurities on kiev 

Putin could just pull his men off, sorry, I mean back, game over then and everyone can get on with their lives', the one's that lived anyway..

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

kingQamaR said:


> I agree to, Picking Countries off one by one has been the American way of conducting endless Wars to keep the defence industry in business.. but On Ukraine, nothing to do with cia this one is solely down to Putins own insecurities on kiev
> 
> Putin could just pull his men off, sorry, I mean back, game over then and everyone can get on with their lives', the one's that lived anyway..



If Russia withdraws from Donbass, this will be the state of the Russians.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506015407551188992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503843512294461441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505756216953569285

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529233253978230784

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## The SC

*Reuters*: Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu has ordered the generals to prioritize the destruction of long-range missiles and Ukrainian artillery, and this comes after the use of weapons provided by the West to strike Russian supply lines.
@bvariaru

A Russian senator sarcastically responds from the European Union: Let them wait for the impact of sanctions on Russia, and we will only wait for winter.
@ElenaKosogorov

*Medvedev*: If Ukraine thinks of attacking Crimea, doomsday will come for all of them.
@soldier2017kg

*CNN*: China has firmly declared that it will help Russia economically and, if necessary, militarily.

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## The SC

The Russian "*Gazprom*" company informs its customers in Europe that it will not supply them with gas, and will not be able to fulfill its commitments in terms of the volume of supply.

A new and very strong slap from President Putin to the European countries that have decided to ally with America
@ElenaKosogorov1


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548692871678664710
Urgent Russian missiles destroy the barracks of the Foreign Legion in Ukraine

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> You can be a democratic or autocratic consumer. China depends on the world for our wealth, not just the West. Did we point a gun on your head to buy our goods? Without us accepting dollars, your money becomes toilet paper. China is autocratic not communist. Do you see billionaires in Communist countries? We are a stateist capitalistic country. The only communist in us is the Party name. Since when am I a communist supporter? I support China not any ideology. Which cat catches mice is a good cat, we coined our ideology as gradual pragmatism


This got nothing to do with the fact that China needs democracy in order to grow wealth even if that democracy is outside of China. Can China grow from non-democratic countries? Sure, but not as fast. So the bottom line here is that the democracy-capitalism pairing is the most conducive, not guaranteed, to wealth. You can call China any label you want, but you need us, not the other way around. Do not mistake the current interdependency between us for being inseparable. Before the Great Collapse, we were already far ahead of you. Today, without you, we cannot merely survive but still grow. But without us, you will regress.


----------



## The SC

ZeGerman said:


> Hahahaha scott ritter…what a joke of a source.
> 
> Instead of copy pasting propaganda, do you really believe ukraine is the strongest nato state? britain? France?
> Stronger then 30 european countries together?
> 
> I assume you can count right? Military equipment and expenditure?
> 
> 
> And russia beating whole nato? A joke.
> Russia has its nuclear weapons…else it would have been leveled out of ukraine already. All those km of columns stuck on the roads. Would be death highway times 10.


I see that as a troll you've skipped the Ron Paul Institute conference in Houston..

Go ask him..and compare your knowledge with his..

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## gambit

MH.Yang said:


> So why did they attack New York instead of Beijing?


Are you serious with that question? Did you do any research into the historical background of the Sept 11, 2001, attack? Do you really believe that it was about US 'stealing' resources from the ME?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549153392479670278


The SC said:


> *CNN*: China has firmly declared that it will help Russia economically and, if necessary, militarily.



I think China should sell or even donate HJ-12 missiles to Russia. These are not cumbersome like Kornet tripod launcher and can be fired by guys riding around in the beds of pickup trucks.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

RescueRanger said:


> Look at his proxemics - the man has never been in a street fight in his life. Also throwing haymakers ... xD All these people make me laugh.




He could be one of the people here who posts frequent pro-Ukrainian news. lol

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> but On Ukraine, nothing to do with cia this one is solely down to Putins own insecurities on kiev


If its solely to do with Putin's insecurities, then why did Russians give 70% approval rating to Putin and supporting the military operation in Ukraine? why does their consensus vote on the war contradict your lame reasoning here?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549149231465783298

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549147267050995720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549145865566261248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549146601104474114

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549165585161936896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549119878249971717

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549165530094993409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549040873458921472

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## MH.Yang

gambit said:


> Are you serious with that question? Did you do any research into the historical background of the Sept 11, 2001, attack? Do you really believe that it was about US 'stealing' resources from the ME?


Bin Laden attacked 9/11 for three main reasons:
First, the USA stationed troops in Islamic holy places. 
Second, the US Army massacred Arabs in Iraq. 
Third, the USA supported Israel's occupation of Jerusalem, the holy land of Islam. 
China has never done these things. Of course, they will not attack Beijing. 
Did the Americans really not reflect on bin Laden's 9/11 attacks? Do you think the USA has no responsibility for 9/11?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549031272739127297

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## gambit

MH.Yang said:


> Bin Laden attacked 9/11 for three main reasons:
> First, the USA stationed troops in Islamic holy places.
> Second, the US Army massacred Arabs in Iraq.
> Third, the USA supported Israel's occupation of Jerusalem, the holy land of Islam.
> China has never done these things. Of course, they will not attack Beijing.
> Did the Americans really not reflect on bin Laden's 9/11 attacks? Do you think the USA has no responsibility for 9/11?


Excellent. Now we can conclude that 'stealing' ME resources have nothing to do with 9/11. Those issues you listed have been debated here before so I will not rehash them here. Do not think you have been anymore 'insightful'. As for Ukraine, there is no 'stealing' of any Ukrainian resources, either.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549153553276608512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549135066454016005

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549099752826015750

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549141309880995846

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549149749076434944


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548980768302661633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548983100570484737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549111192152686593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548771686681436160

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549163322897047552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549082438663606272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549151255561441304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549151277019455488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549151295822598145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549151317263884289
https://twitter.com/PelmeniPusha/status/1549151326248095754


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549114650016600066

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549177679387262976


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## The SC

Sudden dismissals for "treason" in Ukraine .. One of the accused is a friend of Volodymyr Zelensky since childhood.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549069051422334977

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## beast89

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549114650016600066


Of course he did Zelensky is authoritarian, funded by Israeli billionaire. Ripped his nation apart for what? fake glimmer of joining NATO

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549177057975930880


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## MH.Yang

The SC said:


> Sudden dismissals for "treason" in Ukraine .. One of the accused is a friend of Volodymyr Zelensky since childhood.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549069051422334977



This is zelenskyy pushing out the opposition and consolidating power. 

I can foresee what hell is Ukraine will be after the war.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549169460493357056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549170056201998338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549169843089379329




MH.Yang said:


> This is zelenskyy pushing out the opposition and consolidating power.
> 
> I can foresee what hell is Ukraine will be after the war.


The European Union hinted to Zelensky that the "removal" of Prosecutor General Venediktova from office was untimely and somewhat unconstitutional.

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## PakFactor

MH.Yang said:


> Bin Laden attacked 9/11 for three main reasons:
> First, the USA stationed troops in Islamic holy places.
> Second, the US Army massacred Arabs in Iraq.
> Third, the USA supported Israel's occupation of Jerusalem, the holy land of Islam.
> China has never done these things. Of course, they will not attack Beijing.
> Did the Americans really not reflect on bin Laden's 9/11 attacks? Do you think the USA has no responsibility for 9/11?



He’s to stupid to see their own mistakes.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549168156115083265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549167116720521218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549166317814616064Saudi Arabia said that the decision is between the hands of OPEC+ (+ is Russia)

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549171496026886146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549164754580774912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549163322897047552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549130658190073857

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549194855708065795
The Ukrainians are setting the stage for a major counteroffensive at Kherson

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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> This got nothing to do with the fact that China needs democracy in order to grow wealth even if that democracy is outside of China. Can China grow from non-democratic countries? Sure, but not as fast. So the bottom line here is that the democracy-capitalism pairing is the most conducive, not guaranteed, to wealth. You can call China any label you want, but you need us, not the other way around. Do not mistake the current interdependency between us for being inseparable. Before the Great Collapse, we were already far ahead of you. Today, without you, we cannot merely survive but still grow. But without us, you will regress.


Again you missed the point, trade fies both ways, nobody forces you to buy our goods, you buy it because it cheaper and up to a certain quality. Democracy has nothing to do with this, its about economics. Communism is an economic concept not political, you can be communist and democratic, capitalistic and autocratic. 

Without us, your inflation will skyrocket and your dollars would be useless with so much paper printing. Look at the trade war, see the effects. The world is not as simple as it seems. Now Biden is begging to reduce tariffs. Lolol

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549155936404660225


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549073634618183681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549066894581583873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549067464348155906


----------



## _Nabil_

Lehrasap said:


> You are totally delusional if you think that Tunisia abolished slavery without being getting convinced and impressed from the MOVEMENT against slavery which started in Europe and almost all the European countries abolished slavery completely (or at least partially) before Tunisia.
> 
> Here is the Timeline of Abolishing Slavery, and you can see this movement started in Europe in 15th century, and almost all European countries are ahead of Tunisia in abolishing it or bringing some kinds of reforms.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_abolition_of_slavery_and_serfdom


Bla bla bla bla,.... I've shared the same link you are quoting, but still can't distinguish simple facts, I don't blame you too much, racism and bigotry are difficult diseases to cure.

Just few facts : 

1846 Tunisia : Slavery abolished in Tunisia 

1847 : France : Slavery abolished in the colonies. Gabon is founded as a settlement for emancipated slaves.

1860 United States : Last slave ship to unload illegally on U.S. territory, the Clotilda.

1863 Netherlands : Slavery abolished in the colonies, emancipating 33,000 slaves in Surinam, 12,000 in Curaçao and Dependencies,[126] and an indeterminate number in the East Indies.

1867 Spain : Law of Repression and Punishment of the Slave Trade.

1869 Portugal: Louis I abolishes slavery in all Portuguese territories and colonies

1904
United Kingdom
Germany
Denmark
Spain
France
Italy
Netherlands
Portugal
Russia

International Agreement for the suppression of the *White* *Slave* Traffic signed in Paris

Read again, *White Slaves* 

1940 United States : Franklin D. Roosevelt signs Circular 3591 abolishing all forms of convict leasing.



Lehrasap said:


> For sure, religion of Islam has nothing to do with this modern movement of abolishing slavery, as all the Arab countries (and also Islamic countries all over the world) showed no such movement till 14th century.


Lolz, now it's Islam to blame



Lehrasap said:


> In fact, real Arabic countries (i.e. Saudi Arabia and its neighbors) were opposing the abolishing of slavery, as it was considered as Halal Allah. Thus, it was only 1963 when Saudia was compelled to accept the abolishing of slavery under Western pressure.


You looks desperate, now you jump to Saudia Arabia 🤣😂




Lehrasap said:


> Thus, when one says that Arab and Islamic countries were compelled to abolish slavery, then he is right in saying it, while Tunisia will only be counted at maximum as an exception.
> 
> And Islamic countries should be thankful to this modern Western movement against slavery, otherwise, when Western world occupied all the Muslim countries, they would have also made Muslims slaves, just like Muslim Sultans were doing during the last 1400 years history of Islam where they raped the prisoner women in name of slavery.
> 
> And Western world abolished the blasphemy laws, but they should have also compelled Islamic countries too to abolish the blasphemy laws. In the presence of blasphemy laws, no just criticism of Islam is possible, and no just debate can take place as Muslims always start blaming every criticism of Islam to be blasphemy and start killing others.



Again, some Islamophobia, for dessert now 😁😂



ZeGerman said:


> Who is retarded here? “Before 99% western world”????



I can only guess that the retarded is the one giving false informations and denying facts when given.


ZeGerman said:


> the western superpowers at the time:
> France abolished slave trade in 1818



Lolz, France abolished slave trade in 1818 then slavery in 1847 in its colonies !??? Are you dumb or French are dumb?




ZeGerman said:


> Great britian, 1833, and started putting pressure on others to end it.
> So no, majority west already abolished it….



Nah, not in 1833


1834




United KingdomThe Slavery Abolition Act 1833 comes into force, abolishing slavery throughout most of the British Empire but on a gradual basis over the next* six years.The exceptions are the territories controlled by the East India Company and Ceylon.*[101]

When there is exceptions, you can't call it slavery abolition 😝



ZeGerman said:


> Then as a reaction comes tiny insignificant tunisia in 1846.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> windowTitle
> 
> 
> [Description meta content here]
> 
> 
> 
> m.florida.universitypressscholarship.com



Reaction to what ?? A pseudo slavery ban??? As if Tunisia in those times, have any close relation or cares about U.K, You are so pathetic,.... 



ZeGerman said:


> Let alone the other major muslim slavers who happily kept on slaving for a while.


Just like all the western colonials countries did, when they banned slavery for the white Christians people and let it for décennies for their colonies, you want to be the only hypocrites on earth? 🤣😂



ZeGerman said:


> Stop your BS and take a look at your real history.
> Yet somehow everyone acts as if “white man” is the racist slaver and “rest world” are poor innocent victims.
> I dont know how you guys managed to dodge larger attention/critiscism for the arab slave trade….but the amoubt of denial and lack of regret/accountability for it is disgusting


I'm not the one that gave false infos and cheap propaganda/ racism, linking solely Arabs to slavery, .....

When I gave you the example of Tunisia, an Arab country that completely abolished slavery in 1846 before, I persist, 99% of the Occident, you played the dead and hide, until I tagged you 😝, and still you don't want to see the evidence......

Your racism is evident, but can you give me a list of 5 western countries that completly abolished slavery before Tunisia in 1846, I'll help a little bit, .....















Greece

Now give me 4 other countries....

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## The SC

Lehrasap said:


> You are totally delusional if you think that Tunisia abolished slavery without being getting convinced and impressed from the MOVEMENT against slavery which started in Europe and almost all the European countries abolished slavery completely (or at least partially) before Tunisia.
> 
> Here is the Timeline of Abolishing Slavery, and you can see this movement started in Europe in 15th century, and almost all European countries are ahead of Tunisia in abolishing it or bringing some kinds of reforms.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_abolition_of_slavery_and_serfdom
> 
> For sure, religion of Islam has nothing to do with this modern movement of abolishing slavery, as all the Arab countries (and also Islamic countries all over the world) showed no such movement till 14th century.
> 
> In fact, real Arabic countries (i.e. Saudi Arabia and its neighbors) were opposing the abolishing of slavery, as it was considered as Halal Allah. Thus, it was only 1963 when Saudia was compelled to accept the abolishing of slavery under Western pressure.
> 
> Thus, when one says that Arab and Islamic countries were compelled to abolish slavery, then he is right in saying it, while Tunisia will only be counted at maximum as an exception.
> 
> And Islamic countries should be thankful to this modern Western movement against slavery, otherwise, when Western world occupied all the Muslim countries, they would have also made Muslims slaves, just like Muslim Sultans were doing during the last 1400 years history of Islam where they raped the prisoner women in name of slavery.
> 
> And Western world abolished the blasphemy laws, but they should have also compelled Islamic countries too to abolish the blasphemy laws. In the presence of blasphemy laws, no just criticism of Islam is possible, and no just debate can take place as Muslims always start blaming every criticism of Islam to be blasphemy and start killing others.


It is obvious you are talking from ignorance..Slavery was abolished in the Islamic world 1400 years ago.. just go read about the story of* Bilal* _the once slave in the ignorance's time_ and the prophet of Islam Mohammed..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549188784008269824


----------



## Hakwa Nadro

The British abolished slavery and brought in the indentured system just changed the name

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549035581434658816


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549215143510376449


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549204117150728192

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548925364990246912





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549109601186070529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549019627811913728


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548971492062420992


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548937312440025090


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549199708417101827

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549111192152686593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548740555861098497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548522708820017152

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549137612975312896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549132576207634435

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549118783876648960


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549063256114954241


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549147480142385152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549182586051670016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549144227296096257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549145506814627840


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549074608795549698


----------



## ckf

MH.Yang said:


> This is zelenskyy pushing out the opposition and consolidating power.
> 
> I can foresee what hell is Ukraine will be after the war.


There's rumors out there that 3 assassination attempts last 2 weeks, and its not the Russians, more like his own people hates him. He's paranoid/delusional, and will be hated more and more by Ukranians.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549031120959901698


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549114056702889985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548944712161267712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548942394787352576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548721717064994817

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549117377131970560There is also Egypt, Turkey and Saudi Arabia saying the same thing..


----------



## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> Exactly why are you trying to justify russian exapansionism with whatever you claim NATO did or did not?


when NATO stop the shit , I also stop blame Russia and also when bombing of Luhansk and Donetsk villages stop.
untill then you have no moral ground to criticize them.

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> I see that as a troll you've skipped the Ron Paul Institute conference in Houston..
> 
> Go ask him..and compare your knowledge with his..


Oh so you cannot count by yourself? 
Copy-paste it is? 

And More fallacies “appeal to authority” even though scott ritter has almost none.

Whatever man, keep copy-pasting then…


----------



## The SC

ZeGerman said:


> Oh so you cannot count by yourself?
> Copy-paste it is?
> 
> And More fallacies “appeal to authority” even though scott ritter has almost none.
> 
> Whatever man, keep copy-pasting then…


Now you are officialy recognized as a troll.. with nothing of substance to say or even to copy-paste.. HaHaHa!

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## Han Patriot

The SC said:


> Sudden dismissals for "treason" in Ukraine .. One of the accused is a friend of Volodymyr Zelensky since childhood.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549069051422334977


Some big shit must had happened for him to be so angry.

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## MH.Yang

ckf said:


> There's rumors out there that 3 assassination attempts last 2 weeks, and its not the Russians, more like his own people hates him. He's paranoid/delusional, and will be hated more and more by Ukranians.


The Russians have no reason to assassinate him. 

Zelensky's death will not make the Ukrainians surrender. On the contrary, the Ukrainians will resist more resolutely. 

Secondly, it's great for a comedian to be the commander of the enemy. The Russians would not like to see an experienced veteran replace Zelensky.

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## Han Patriot

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549114056702889985
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548944712161267712
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548942394787352576
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548721717064994817


Hahahah, this is so funny, first they say bayraktar will. End the war, then M777, then now HIMARS, its like these are some magic weapons. Gosh, China makes them in the hundreds at half the cost. Seriously?

4 nos of HIMARS is enough to defeat Russia. Then why the fck are we building stealth planes and what not. We should just produce SY400.


----------



## ZeGerman

_Nabil_ said:


> Bla bla bla bla,.... I've shared the same link you are quoting, but still can't distinguish simple facts, I don't blame you too much, racism and bigotry are difficult diseases to cure.
> 
> Just few facts :
> 
> 1846 Tunisia : Slavery abolished in Tunisia
> 
> 1847 : France : Slavery abolished in the colonies. Gabon is founded as a settlement for emancipated slaves.
> 
> 1860 United States : Last slave ship to unload illegally on U.S. territory, the Clotilda.
> 
> 1863 Netherlands : Slavery abolished in the colonies, emancipating 33,000 slaves in Surinam, 12,000 in Curaçao and Dependencies,[126] and an indeterminate number in the East Indies.
> 
> 1867 Spain : Law of Repression and Punishment of the Slave Trade.
> 
> 1869 Portugal: Louis I abolishes slavery in all Portuguese territories and colonies
> 
> 1904
> United Kingdom
> Germany
> Denmark
> Spain
> France
> Italy
> Netherlands
> Portugal
> Russia
> 
> International Agreement for the suppression of the *White* *Slave* Traffic signed in Paris
> 
> Read again, *White Slaves*
> 
> 1940 United States : Franklin D. Roosevelt signs Circular 3591 abolishing all forms of convict leasing.
> 
> 
> Lolz, now it's Islam to blame
> 
> 
> You looks desperate, now you jump to Saudia Arabia 🤣😂
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, some Islamophobia, for dessert now 😁😂
> 
> 
> 
> I can only guess that the retarded is the one giving false informations and denying facts when given.
> 
> 
> Lolz, France abolished slave trade in 1818 then slavery in 1847 in its colonies !??? Are you dumb or French are dumb?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, not in 1833
> 
> 
> 1834
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United KingdomThe Slavery Abolition Act 1833 comes into force, abolishing slavery throughout most of the British Empire but on a gradual basis over the next* six years.The exceptions are the territories controlled by the East India Company and Ceylon.*[101]
> 
> When there is exceptions, you can't call it slavery abolition 😝
> 
> 
> 
> Reaction to what ?? A pseudo slavery ban??? As if Tunisia in those times, have any close relation or cares about U.K, You are so pathetic,....
> 
> 
> Just like all the western colonials countries did, when they banned slavery for the white Christians people and let it for décennies for their colonies, you want to be the only hypocrites on earth? 🤣😂
> 
> 
> I'm not the one that gave false infos and cheap propaganda/ racism, linking solely Arabs to slavery, .....
> 
> When I gave you the example of Tunisia, an Arab country that completely abolished slavery in 1846 before, I persist, 99% of the Occident, you played the dead and hide, until I tagged you 😝, and still you don't want to see the evidence......
> 
> Your racism is evident, but can you give me a list of 5 western countries that completly abolished slavery before Tunisia in 1846, I'll help a little bit, .....


I concede full abolishment took 10-30 years later.

Let me rephrase then.
By 1865 majority western powers abolished slavery. Most partially banning it well before this time.

By 1865 95% of the arabs still practiced slavery, and some would happily do so up till 1960, with most being forced to stop by pressure from europe.

main point still remains. Its fun that your digging for the exceptions on the rule though. However We still remember the barbary states, otttomans, and how almost all the gulf practiced it well past 1900s.

So you Win the battle but lost the war on this point buddy.
Now tell me, how do you feel about the arab slave trade? All those millions of slaves….over all those hundreds and hundreds of years….
I mean sure lets all point at “the white man” but forget four fingers point back at yourself?


----------



## NotSure

Han Patriot said:


> Some big shit must had happened for him to be so angry.


The winter is coming according to Selensky:

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## gambit

MH.Yang said:


> The Russians have no reason to assassinate him.
> 
> Zelensky's death will not make the Ukrainians surrender. On the contrary, the Ukrainians will resist more resolutely.
> 
> Secondly, it's great for a comedian to be the commander of the enemy. *The Russians would not like to see an experienced veteran replace Zelensky.*


As if a former spy is doing any better.


----------



## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> The Russians have no reason to assassinate him.
> 
> Zelensky's death will not make the Ukrainians surrender. On the contrary, the Ukrainians will resist more resolutely.
> 
> Secondly, it's great for a comedian to be the commander of the enemy. The Russians would not like to see an experienced veteran replace Zelensky.


You are too delusional. Of course Zelinskki is top the list Russians will kill. Who else? His cook?
Zelinskki is president. He is supreme commander of the armed forces. His former role in comedy business plays no role in war. If Xi Jingping goes to war his former role as peasant leader is nothing of significance. I wonder why so many people are so delusional.


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> when NATO stop the shit , I also stop blame Russia and also when bombing of Luhansk and Donetsk villages stop.
> untill then you have no moral ground to criticize them.


What has Nato shit to do with Russian terror bombing in Ukraine? What logic is that?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

PakFactor said:


> Is it me or has the media overall toned down coverage of this conflict.
> As stated many times the West has completed it goal of keeping Russia engaged, and they've used Slavic's against each other.


Yes, Putin is just a puppet, doing everything Trump orders him to do from his Mar-A-Lago golf course.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549141309880995846

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## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> If its solely to do with Putin's insecurities, then why did Russians give 70% approval rating to Putin and supporting the military operation in Ukraine? why does their consensus vote on the war contradict your lame reasoning here?



Free elections? Lol. Nothing is free in Russia. Putin is a notorious dictator and controls the state run government Only on paper, no matter how many votes are cast ,Putin will win overwhelmingly in a a system that is not free, Re: Vote Putin or else more or less


----------



## Bengal71

ZeGerman said:


> I was critisizing russia to which I get black kettled as “racist/colonialist” europe.
> Then i point out that arabs have an equally pitch black History, to which i first get reactions ranging from pure denial, to utter historical fantasy, to “no true scotsman fallacy”, to now this…who am I to condemn?
> 
> You guys are just physically unable to admit any faults, unable to look in the mirror??
> “Our hundreds and hundreds of years of slavery till the christians made us stop was very progressive and uplifting”
> Wow…just wow…speechless.



While I agree that the Europeans are racists and colonialists but you are right. The history of slavery in the Muslim world, specially the Arab world was as bad if not worse. I personally believe it was worse.

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> You are too delusional. Of course Zelinskki is top the list Russians will kill. Who else? His cook?
> Zelinskki is president. He is supreme commander of the armed forces. His former role in comedy business plays no role in war. If Xi Jingping goes to war his former role as peasant leader is nothing of significance. I wonder why so many people are so delusional.


Xi did once work as a farmer, but he later served as a civil servant at all levels in China. He even served as a political commissar of the Fujian military region. Unlike Zelensky, he went directly from comedian to President. Zelensky lacks political experience and a large number of qualified subordinates. So Zelensky is just a puppet.

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## thecomputerhub67

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545953443415633928


https://www.truefirms.co/company-search/Web-Development
https://www.truefirms.co/company-search/Web3-Development
https://www.truefirms.co/company-search/Digital-Marketing
https://www.truefirms.co/company-search/Social-Media-Marketing
https://www.truefirms.co/company-search/Web-Designers


----------



## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Xi did once work as a farmer, but he later served as a civil servant at all levels in China. He even served as a political commissar of the Fujian military region. Unlike Zelensky, he went directly from comedian to President. Zelensky lacks political experience and a large number of qualified subordinates. So Zelensky is just a puppet.


he is a puppet to whom? ok I know you will say to the US. then you say the US is puppet to a capitalist pigs. those pigs are controller by Jews. those jews are in Kiew that is puppet to Zelinskki.
man, wake up, Ronald Reagan was an holliwood actor. became president. don´t make mistake, assume the world looks like CCp.

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> he is a puppet to whom? ok I know you will say to the US. then you say the US is puppet to a capitalist pigs. those pigs are controller by Jews. those jews are in Kiew that is puppet to Zelinskki.
> man, wake up, Ronald Reagan was an holliwood actor. became president. don´t make mistake, assume the world looks like CCp.


How can a person without any political experience become a president? Zelensky, like Reagan, is a puppet. The actual power is in the hands of the advisory group arranged by the boss behind the scenes.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> What has Nato shit to do with Russian terror bombing in Ukraine? What logic is that?


Russia uses the exact logic NATO uses in other countries . how hard its to understand

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## ZeGerman

Bengal71 said:


> While I agree that the Europeans are racists and colonialists but you are right. The history of slavery in the Muslim world, specially the Arab world was as bad if not worse. I personally believe it was worse.


Thank you. This is the first time one actually admit it:
1: happened instead of blatantly denying it
2: was pretty bad, instead of saying how “progressive and uplifting” it was.

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## Bengal71

ZeGerman said:


> Thank you. This is the first time one actually admit it:
> 1: happened instead of blatantly denying it
> 2: was pretty bad, instead of saying how “progressive and uplifting” it was.



Muslims defend the religion, that's the nature of Muslims. Vast mojrity of the things in Islam are good which need no defending. But the slavery is a stain in the Islamic history, it was long, it was done on millions of people, it was brutal and crude and inhuman. It is the truth. I admit it because as a Muslim I won't be asked on the day of judgement whether I defended Islam even with the help of falsehood, I will be asked whether I spoke truth.

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## mulj

ZeGerman said:


> Thank you. This is the first time one actually admit it:
> 1: happened instead of blatantly denying it
> 2*: was pretty bad, instead of saying how “progressive and uplifting” it was.*


it was, name one military commander or state official from christian slave tradition, you can find countless opposite examples in history of muslim worlds deviations and misdoings of particular individuals does not invalidate principles and conditions of slavery in islamic context. you write from ignorance.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia uses the exact logic NATO uses in other countries . how hard its to understand


Then ok then be a man admit it, yes, I learn it from the Nato, not hey that’s special ops shit, liberating the oppressed in Donbas. Russians are not liberating anything, at max they are stealing shoes.



MH.Yang said:


> How can a person without any political experience become a president? Zelensky, like Reagan, is a puppet. The actual power is in the hands of the advisory group arranged by the boss behind the scenes.


How can a bus driver become a president in venezuela? A furniture seller a president in Indonesia?


----------



## SalarHaqq

MH.Yang said:


> This is zelenskyy pushing out the opposition and consolidating power.
> 
> I can foresee what hell is Ukraine will be after the war.



A very zionist type of a snake-pit. Only replace "Palestinians" with "Russians" - assuming any Russian-speakers will be present on the area of whatever rump state the completion of Moscow's military operation will leave behind.

Zelensky was explicit as to where his political source of inspiration for his country lies.


Zelensky: Ukraine will be like Israel, not demilitarized like Switzerland after war​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that Ukraine will not be demilitarized like Switzerland, but a "big Israel." ​By  TOVAH LAZAROFF
Published: APRIL 5, 2022 21:27

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-703335


Why Zelensky's dream of Ukraine becoming 'big Israel' makes Moscow nervous​Jonathan Cook

12 April 2022 11:37 UTC | Last update: 3 months 5 days ago

*The Ukrainian president's comparison bolsters Moscow's claim that Kyiv is intent on a programme of violent 'de-Russification' *









Why Zelensky's dream of Ukraine becoming 'big Israel' makes Moscow nervous


The Ukrainian president's comparison bolsters Moscow's claim that Kyiv is intent on a programme of violent 'de-Russification'




www.middleeasteye.net

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Then ok then be a man admit it, yes, I learn it from the Nato, not hey that’s special ops shit, liberating the oppressed in Donbas. Russians are not liberating anything, at max they are stealing shoes.


NATO called Libya bombing , special operation to protect civilian in Libya , Didn't they ?
Russia is protecting the downtrodden in Donetsk and Luhansk.
well its so until NATO admit to what they really did in Afghanistan , Serbia, Libya and Iraq and compensate them for that. 
oh and USA do the same for 90 country they intervened in since WW2

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549121550481334272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549350101587562498

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549307317916663808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549061880597069829

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## Primus

thecomputerhub67 said:


> https://www.truefirms.co/company-search/Web-Development
> https://www.truefirms.co/company-search/Web3-Development
> https://www.truefirms.co/company-search/Digital-Marketing
> https://www.truefirms.co/company-search/Social-Media-Marketing
> https://www.truefirms.co/company-search/Web-Designers


What?


----------



## ZeGerman

mulj said:


> it was, name one military commander or state official from christian slave tradition, you can find countless opposite examples in history of muslim worlds deviations and misdoings of particular individuals does not invalidate principles and conditions of slavery in islamic context. you write from ignorance.


For every one commander or state official that made its way up and eventually free, there are tens of thousands that died from exposure during the forced march, died from castration, were caught for sexual slavery, or were to be used and trained as disposable weapons.

Millions of slaves from africa and europe. 
Vast majority arabs also refused to stop slaving unless made to do so by europe changing its stance on slavery. 

It seems to me the “succes stories” are the minority here, not the other way around.

Also…your using no true scotsman fallacy.
I have a stronger case to say christian slavery were not “true christians” considering atleast many priests and christians were involved with the abolitionist movements. and that the new testament is silent on the subject as opposed to condoning it as in quran.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> NATO called Libya bombing , special operation to protect civilian in Libya , Didn't they ?
> Russia is protecting the downtrodden in Donetsk and Luhansk.
> well its so until NATO admit to what they really did in Afghanistan , Serbia, Libya and Iraq and compensate them for that.
> oh and USA do the same for 90 country they intervened in since WW2


war has own logics people have every excuses. why only Nato wars? why don´t you mention Russia wars or USSR wars? what´s about Persia wars or Iran wars?
what´s about Iran wars staged by stooges in elsewhere in the world?


----------



## mulj

Bengal71 said:


> Muslims defend the religion, that's the nature of Muslims. Vast mojrity of the things in Islam are good which need no defending. But the slavery is a stain in the Islamic history, it was long, it was done on millions of people, it was brutal and crude and inhuman. It is the truth. I admit it because as a Muslim I won't be asked on the day of judgement whether I defended Islam even with the help of falsehood, I will be asked whether I spoke truth.


dude, you know that in islam you can not enslave free man? i


ZeGerman said:


> For every one commander or state official that made its way up and eventually free, there are tens of thousands that died from exposure during the forced march, died from castration, were caught for sexual slavery, or were to be used and trained as disposable weapons.
> 
> Millions of slaves from africa and europe.
> Vast majority arabs also refused to stop slaving unless made to do so by europe changing its stance on slavery.
> 
> It seems to me the “succes stories” are the minority here, not the other way around.
> 
> Also…your using no true scotsman fallacy.
> I have a stronger case to say christian slavery were not “true christians” considering atleast many priests and christians were involved with the abolitionist movements. and that the new testament is silent on the subject as opposed to condoning it as in quran.


Stop reading orientalists and evangelic shits, read some more nuanced and comprehensive works to broaden your narrow perspektive.
You obviously does not understand islamic doctrine about it, basically islamic slavery is like modern contract between employer and employee, deviations from it is completely other subject.
And when you mentioned christianity in that context, please read scriptures what they say about status between master and slave, it is like horror movie.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549282831431516160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549311598216495104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549315760476110850


Viet said:


> war has own logics people have every excuses. why only Nato wars? why don´t you mention Russia wars or USSR wars? what´s about Persia wars or Iran wars?
> what´s about Iran wars staged by stooges in elsewhere in the world?



European countries used to have war every day before 1946. America is the glue that holds NATO together. When America is too weak to hold NATO together, there will be war every day in Europe.

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## ZeGerman

mulj said:


> dude, you know that in islam you can not enslave free man? i
> 
> Stop reading orientalists and evangelic shits, read some more nuanced and comprehensive works to broaden your narrow perspektive.
> You obviously does not understand islamic doctrine about it, basically islamic slavery is like modern contract between employer and employee, deviations from it is completely other subject.
> And when you mentioned christianity in that context, please read scriptures what they say about status between master and slave, it is like horror movie.


I am not discussing the “theocratic ideal” of muslim slavery ( and on top of that only according to certain schools of thought…others have far harsher and different interpretations), but how it was generally practiced in history by arab muslims…

This varies from some mild forms to absolute horrors. And formed the majority and/or was tolerated by the majority. 
Where was your ilk when the barbary states constantly pillaged and slaved parts of the european coast…effectively depopulating it? 

It is that history i am asking people to atleast be honest about. 

It is like someone criticizing british colonialist crimes and i am like “well those were not “truly” christians/british. We are civilised and peaceful.

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## ThisUser




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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549141309880995846



Yeah, some made-up article falsely attributed to Wagner is gonna be the next line of propaganda that some will use. Making false stories doesn't you win this war. We're waiting for the next phase of Russian military offensives. A few "HIMARS" are gonna change the course of war? That is a wishful thinking.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Yeah, some made-up article falsely attributed to Wagner is gonna be the next line of propaganda that some will use. Making false stories doesn't you win this war. We're waiting for the next phase of Russian military offensives. A few "HIMARS" are gonna change the course of war? That is a wishful thinking.



Those few himars were enough to obliterate several important Russian arm depots. The intensity of Russian artillery strikes has decreased compared to last weeks. Russia's war potential is so depleted as are their BTGs. So far Russia's main goals have failed,always seeing them down to give them some false sense of victory. 

Meanwhile Ukrainian forces in the Donbass weren't encircled despite Russia's overwhelming superiority in terms of artillery,manpower etc... they were even able to retreat in good order. Ukrainian forces are still resisting despite being outnumbered and outgunned in the Donbass despite Russians throwing everything they have + throwing as cannon fodder LNR/DNR forces (or what's left of them) + wagners + tiktok kadyrovs. (Or again what's left of them,they are quit quite lately...)

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549344180530462722


----------



## ZeGerman

What would a Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson look like?


One way or another, according to Ukraine’s leadership, it's bound to happen. Even though the Battle of Donbas is far from over, Ukraine is expected to open the next chapter of the war in the near future — a highly anticipated, major counter-offensive operation in the south, particularly to...




kyivindependent.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549389889732501508
The sound of HIMARS


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549303691290628096


ZeGerman said:


> What would a Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson look like?
> 
> 
> One way or another, according to Ukraine’s leadership, it's bound to happen. Even though the Battle of Donbas is far from over, Ukraine is expected to open the next chapter of the war in the near future — a highly anticipated, major counter-offensive operation in the south, particularly to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyivindependent.com



With Ukrainian fuel and ammo dumps constantly bombed by cruise missiles. Kherson offensive ain't happening. Ukrainian soldiers lack fuel and ammo to do a major offensive.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549183170179997696


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

imaging infrared missile attacking a bridge


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549374428529758210

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

low flying Mi-28 attack aircraft


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549280742504423424
TOS MRLS


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549409006380269569
Grad MRLS


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549395122156093440
Konkurs ATGM


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549390857777954822

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> war has own logics people have every excuses. why only Nato wars? why don´t you mention Russia wars or USSR wars? what´s about Persia wars or Iran wars?
> what´s about Iran wars staged by stooges in elsewhere in the world?


for rationalizing Russia war you use NATO wars not USSR or tzar Russia .
Persia wars , well they are at least more than 3 century old , don't you think they are a little outdated to rationalize anything ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-25 SM3 attack aircraft. These are upgraded with nose mounted FLIR.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549388072445513731


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> for rationalizing Russia war you use NATO wars not USSR or tzar Russia .
> Persia wars , well they are at least more than 3 century old , don't you think they are a little outdated to rationalize anything ?


Tell me what is outdated? Is there new fashion war? No. War is war, not much changed, the only difference is means.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549277171646050304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549268125161439232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549259351616933888

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549183170179997696


The Russians have 150,000 men, organized in 5 army groups, they can’t move forward nor backward. Seems disorganized. They attack Ukraine positions in 100 men group. So says UK military intel. Russia defense lines between 50km and 100km. They rely much on artillery. If Ukraine has enough weapons they can annihilate the Russia army in Donbas in one or two week.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> The Russians have 150,000 men, organized in 5 army groups, they can’t move forward nor backward. They are disorganized. They attack Ukraine positions in 100 men group. If Ukraine has enough weapons they can annihilate the Russia army in Donbas in one or two week.



Ukraine can't even beat a bunch of rag tag Taliban in Afghanistan after 10 years let alone Russia.

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## PakFactor

Bengal71 said:


> He is a shameless Vietnamese. The Americans bombed the shit out them and killed millions and he is a happy slave having served the American military. It's the same bloodline of Mir Jafar, they are found in every nation in every age.



I agree 100% and as you pointed out these shameless specimens are bred in every nation.

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## _Nabil_

ZeGerman said:


> I concede full abolishment took 10-30 years later.



Much much more later ...


ZeGerman said:


> Let me rephrase then.
> By 1865 majority western powers abolished slavery. Most partially banning it well before this time.


Partially banning slavery for white, Christians, neighbors countries, just shows the west Hypocrisy...



ZeGerman said:


> By 1865 95% of the arabs still practiced slavery, and some would happily do so up till 1960, with most being forced to stop by pressure from europe.



Lolz, how can Arabs bans slavery when their under west occupation 😂🤣 that still practice slavery in its colonies? ??


ZeGerman said:


> main point still remains. Its fun that your digging for the exceptions on the rule though. However We still remember the barbary states, otttomans, and how almost all the gulf practiced it well past 1900s.


Funny how your Racism tend you to point Ottomans (not Arabs in between) and the Gulf "mini states" and forget mighty U.S.A, can you tell me when slavery was abolished in USA ??? And In Germany as you are a German 🤣😂.



ZeGerman said:


> So you Win the battle but lost the war on this point buddy.


All your initial statements are falses concerning Arabs and slavery, that's what's important for me.



ZeGerman said:


> Now tell me, how do you feel about the arab slave trade? All those millions of slaves….over all those hundreds and hundreds of years….



Again you are missing completely the point, and calling it "Arab slave trade", i don't balme you too much, being a racist won't help you to have clear ideas.

Where was the biggest slaves concentration, in the Arab or in the west world ?

The west didn't banned slavery for democracy or human rights, they needed cheap labour after the industrial revolution.



ZeGerman said:


> I mean sure lets all point at “the white man” but forget four fingers point back at yourself?



Arabs where small employees in the hands of the West big traders and business-men.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> NATO called Libya bombing , special operation to protect civilian in Libya , Didn't they ?
> Russia is protecting the downtrodden in Donetsk and Luhansk.
> well its so until NATO admit to what they really did in Afghanistan , Serbia, Libya and Iraq and compensate them for that.
> oh and USA do the same for 90 country they intervened in since WW2


The Libya operation was legalized by a UNSC resolution.
Russia does not even try to pretend their operation is legal.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549458529752432641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549446109365411845

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549445250166439938


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549446127656861708



@F-22Raptor their patch reads «our business is death. and business is going well»

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## fallschirmjager786

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549458529752432641
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549446109365411845
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549445250166439938
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549446127656861708
> 
> 
> 
> @F-22Raptor their patch reads «our business is death. and business is going well»



Looks like the southern counter offensive is in full swing. Ammo dumps, radars, bombarding arty/rail supply depots the target.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russia Appears To Shoot Down Its Own Su-34 Strike Fighter​








Ukraine Situation Report: Russia Appears To Shoot Down Its Own Su-34 Strike Fighter


Friendly fire likely claimed one of Russia's most advanced Su-34 'Hellduck' fighter-bombers during a mission over eastern Ukraine.




www.thedrive.com





(followup report)


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549457962468515845


fallschirmjager786 said:


> Looks like the southern counter offensive is in full swing. Ammo dumps, radars, bombarding arty/rail supply depots the target.



Ukrainian is clearly preparing for a major counteroffensive in the south.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549457962468515845
> 
> 
> Ukrainian is clearly preparing for a major counteroffensive in the south.



Without fuel and ammo, not gonna happen.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Libya operation was legalized by a UNSC resolution.
> Russia does not even try to pretend their operation is legal.



Under UN Charter, it is legal to wage war to protect civilians from regime artillery. The US did so in Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria. Turkey did so in Cyprus, Syria.


----------



## The SC




----------



## ZeGerman

_Nabil_ said:


> Much much more later ...
> 
> Partially banning slavery for white, Christians, neighbors countries, just shows the west Hypocrisy...











CHRONOLOGY-Who banned slavery when?


Britain marks 200 years on March 25 since it enacted a law banning the trans-Atlantic slave trade, although full abolition of slavery did not follow for another generation.




www.reuters.com




From banning slave trade fully or partially early 1800s to abolishment including colonies 1860-1890

And dont lie (again) in 1833 the brits also freed sa and caribean slaves. And atlantic slave trade was outlawed before that which suprise suprise is not about white slaves…



_Nabil_ said:


> Lolz, how can Arabs bans slavery when their under west occupation 😂🤣 that still practice slavery in its colonies? ??


Barbary states stopped when forced to stop. Same for most of the gulf states, though much later.

Your “custodian” of the holy sites the saudis continued till what 1960? 

But please try to wriggle around overwhelming evidence more. It amuses me. 


_Nabil_ said:


> Funny how your Racism tend you to point Ottomans (not Arabs in between) and the Gulf "mini states" and forget mighty U.S.A, can you tell me when slavery was abolished in USA ??? And In Germany as you are a German 🤣😂.


Usa 1865 (bulk of them atleast)
Most arabs and ottomans considerably later. And/or forced to do so instead of from own abolitionist volition. 



_Nabil_ said:


> All your initial statements are falses concerning Arabs and slavery, that's what's important for me.


Main point stands. Arab practiced slavery for longer. We are talking about millions of slaves. And They were more often then not pressured or forced to stop. 


_Nabil_ said:


> Again you are missing completely the point, and calling it "Arab slave trade", i don't balme you too much, being a racist won't help you to have clear ideas.








Arab slave trade - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org




Its the historic name….
But you only read those parts that you want to read and rip out the rest of the pages i understand…


_Nabil_ said:


> Where was the biggest slaves concentration, in the Arab or in the west world ?


Well castrated slaves, more slaves dying from the transport, slave children being freemen faster, transporting slaves instead of end destination….
kinda plays against the creation of a distinct group/large concentration. 

Does nothing to the amount of people slaved and killed. But an explanation on why this horror is “forgotten” so much compared to atlantic slavery. 

But Nice try though. Semantics are all you have. Morals are long gone. 


_Nabil_ said:


> The west didn't banned slavery for democracy or human rights, they needed cheap labour after the industrial revolution.


Ripping out history pages on the motivation of the abolitionist and the debates (sometimes religious) around it? Again? 


_Nabil_ said:


> Arabs where small employees in the hands of the West big traders and business-men.


Estimation of a million european slaves.
Estimations of 9 million black slaves 
Slavery from well before and well after the europeans started and stopped it.

Doesnt add up does it? 
But please..wriggle more…

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Knocked out Kiev regime T-64 in Donbas.

https://****/DonbassDevushka/15078


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Libya operation was legalized by a UNSC resolution.


no it only legalized to protect civilian , no where it legalized to bomb Libyan army when they engage or don't engage armed rebels in middle of desert hundreds of km away from any settlement .


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia does not even try to pretend their operation is legal.


why pretend , when NATO attack Serbia it was legal to protect civilian . but when Russia attack Donbas its pretend ?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549479223835987970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549474889039495169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549473326292148224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549473158452969474

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> no it only legalized to protect civilian , no where it legalized to bomb Libyan army when they engage or don't engage armed rebels in middle of desert hundreds of km away from any settlement .








As long as the Libyan Army kept attacking civilians, they are valid targets,



Hack-Hook said:


> why pretend , when NATO attack Serbia it was legal to protect civilian . but when Russia attack Donbas its pretend ?



Since Russia created the situation in Donbass, it is very different. They cannot claim to be neutral in a war they started.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> As long as the Libyan Army kept attacking civilians, they are valid targets,


as i said , no they were not attacking civilian they were in fight with armed rebels in middle of desert and you guys bombed them there .


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Since Russia created the situation in Donbass, it is very different. They cannot claim to be neutral in a war they started.


the situation created by Kiev decision to ban Russians language in those areas. so no Russia didn't made the situation there

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Since Russia created the situation in Donbass, it is very different. They cannot claim to be neutral in a war they started.



False. Kiev regime started the war by doing Euro Maidan and overthrowing a democratically elected president. No Euro Maidan = no war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549484869578854400

The US will be sending more HIMARS.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549484869578854400
> 
> The US will be sending more HIMARS.



The US sent all 300 HIMARS.


----------



## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549479223835987970
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549474889039495169
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549473326292148224
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549473158452969474


What? 
Kadyrov is such a joke.
Demilitarising poland = taking on Nato = good luck considering they have their hands full with little old Ukraine…
Ah hoe I wish nukes were never invented so the Nato airforce could just wipe those orcs from ukranian soil in days. 

And that chinese diplomat. So russia invades a sovereign nation it vowed to safeguard, tries to annex it. 
And it is really the US being responsible? 

Luckily the chinese only pay lip service and talk about support…but not actually aiding the russians apart from buying discounted oil and gas…their western customers are too important.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> as i said , no they were not attacking civilian they were in fight with armed rebels in middle of desert and you guys bombed them there .


If the Libyan Army is attacking civilians anywhere, even troops fighting rebels in the desert are valid targets,



Hack-Hook said:


> the situation created by Kiev decision to ban Russians language in those areas. so no Russia didn't made the situation there


No, the situation was created by Russia moving troops into Donbass and starting an insurrection, led and armed by Russia with Russian troops in disguise doing most of the fighting.
The Russian language is protected in the Ukrainan constitution, and was not banned.


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

I wonder why Russia doesn't do carpet bombing and finish it for once and all . They have a nice fleet of high altitude bombers

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I wonder why Russia doesn't do carpet bombing and finish it for once and all . They have a nice fleet of high altitude bombers



Too expensive. This is a forever war. Gotta keep it sustainable.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> No, the situation was created by Russia moving troops into Donbass and starting an insurrection, led and armed by Russia with Russian troops in disguise doing most of the fighting.



Donbas declared independence from Kiev the moment Kiev rioters ousted president Yanukovych who was born and raised in Donbas and who served as governor of Donbas before he became president. Russia had nothing to do with starting the war.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> If the Libyan Army is attacking civilians anywhere, even troops fighting rebels in the desert are valid targets,


according to your skewed interpretation of resolution.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> No, the situation was created by Russia moving troops into Donbass and starting an insurrection, led and armed by Russia with Russian troops in disguise doing most of the fighting.


no the Donbass wanted to separate from Ukraine after Ukraine banned Russians and told them you are second class citizen , Ukraine bombed them and then Russia entered there,
at the time Russia moved into Crimea not Donbass

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Without fuel and ammo, not gonna happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Under UN Charter, it is legal to wage war to protect civilians from regime artillery. The US did so in Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria. Turkey did so in Cyprus, Syria.


Its not legal to wage war based on a false narrative. The russians have lost all international credibility years ago. Nobody cares about russian arguments as to why they invaded Ukraine.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Its not legal to wage war based on a false narrative. The russians have lost all international credibility years ago. Nobody cares about russian arguments as to why they invaded Ukraine.



Russia is nobody. Russia acts on the order of its master China. Why don't you Europeans ever criticize China? China did covid-19 to oust Trump. Why don't you Europeans ever criticize China? Oh right. Bully the weak. Fear the strong. This is an old saying in China.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549457958584590338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549426532946411522

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549395204247101441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549393434624102400


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia is nobody. Russia acts on the order of its master China. Why don't you Europeans ever criticize China? China did covid-19 to oust Trump. Why don't you Europeans ever criticize China? Oh right. Bully the weak. Fear the strong. This is an old saying in China.


I actually doubt you know much about China.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> I actually doubt you know much about China.



I'm from China myself.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549500756872630273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549499809865900043

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> according to your skewed interpretation of resolution.


”All neccessary measures” is a pretty broad statement. 
It does allow to remove the possibility for the Libyan Army to continue to commit atrocities.


Hack-Hook said:


> no the Donbass wanted to separate from Ukraine after Ukraine banned Russians and told them you are second class citizen , Ukraine bombed them and then Russia entered there,
> 
> at the time Russia moved into Crimea not Donbass


The Donbass people were demonstrating, but the actual insurgency was led by Russian FSB agents. Russian troops were there from the start. And no, Russian was not banned. The Ukrainan Parliament declared ”Ukrainan” to be the state language. 
Russia cannot invade covertly and then a few months later send in 30,000 troops and claim neutrality. Most killed since 2014 were killed by Russia. If Russia left Ukraine alone, there would be no killings.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Donbass people were demonstrating, but the actual insurgency was led by Russian FSB agents. Russian troops were there from the start. And no, Russian was not banned. The Ukrainan Parliament declared ”Ukrainan” to be the state language.
> Russia cannot invade covertly and then a few months later send in 30,000 troops and claim neutrality. Most killed since 2014 were killed by Russia. If Russia left Ukraine alone, there would be no killings.



There are no ifs and buts in history. What has happened happened. There is no going back.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549347797253644289

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I'm from China myself.


Going back long enough we are all from Africa. My guess is your chinese is as good as mine.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Going back long enough we are all from Africa. My guess is your chinese is as good as mine.



Dude. I was born in China.


----------



## dbc

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I wonder why Russia doesn't do carpet bombing and finish it for once and all . They have a nice fleet of high altitude bombers


may be Russia ran out of carpets? er..is than why Putin went to Iran?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Dude. I was born in China.


Wouldnt you just have destroyed my argument if you replied in chinese?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Wouldnt you just have destroyed my argument if you replied in chinese?



Don't get it.


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Don't get it.


I know, because youre you are no more chinese than I am.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549506544898908166


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549488066477318144


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549484869578854400
> 
> The US will be sending more HIMARS.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549471941328867332

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549484008064557056


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549477196305137665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549430423557636098

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549519613020540928


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549423393073659910


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549485932436492290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549502426977280000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549473806238064643


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549421868888821771

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549408907969413123

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## Hassan Al-Somal

EU already giving up some of its sanctions against Russia, and it is not even in winter yet. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549420800213626881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549399099534893056

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## RescueRanger

The world has just 10 weeks of wheat left. -Telegraph.









World has just 10 weeks' worth of wheat left after Ukraine war


Food supplies are being rocked by Russia's invasion of the 'breadbasket of Europe'




www.telegraph.co.uk

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

This indeed big, Iran and Russians are gonna be trading based on their currencies. These 2 countries are major oil and gas exporters, and are in the process of throwing a blow against the petro-dollar. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549394852697219074

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This indeed big, Iran and Russians are gonna be trading based on their currencies. These 2 countries are major oil and gas exporters, and are in the process of throwing a blow against the petro-dollar.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549394852697219074


@LeGenD brother I dont know where you are these days, but looks like investing some spare cash into rubles turned out to be a safe bet 😂.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

In the words of West's kingpin George Soros 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549374225290596352


----------



## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This indeed big, Iran and Russians are gonna be trading based on their currencies. These 2 countries are major oil and gas exporters, and are in the process of throwing a blow against the petro-dollar.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549394852697219074




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549452861855203329

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549548613176463360

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549371727351783424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549351884644818945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549349225900687362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549364228242477056


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549452861855203329




The amount of sheer desperation that the Biden administration is showing is unbelievable. Why sanction countries if you want to issue that kind of desperate appeal? Putin really gives nightmares to the operatives of the Deep State.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549541529546473474


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## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549484869578854400
> 
> The US will be sending more HIMARS.


First the magic weapon was 

Bayraktar
Then m777
Then himars


Dude you don't defeat a superpower with these alone.... You need fuel and ammo and many more. Send them F16s then i would say it would make a difference. 4 HIMARS which 2 destroyed is basically useless. You might as well send them canned food. You gullible lot believes whatever is fed to you in the media, one day they drum up M777, you guys will climax, the next day HIMARS, you climax again. Lolol

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## KingMamba

Any updated on the ground map. Last one I saw Russia was making substantial gains in the east but now much of the news is about Bidens tour and Ukraines weaponry instead of whats actually going down on the ground.

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## kingQamaR

Han Patriot said:


> First the magic weapon was
> 
> Bayraktar
> Then m777
> Then himars
> 
> 
> Dude you don't defeat a superpower with these alone.... You need fuel and ammo and many more. Send them F16s then i would say it would make a difference. 4 HIMARS which 2 destroyed is basically useless. You might as well send them canned food. You gullible lot believes whatever is fed to you in the media, one day they drum up M777, you guys will climax, the next day HIMARS, you climax again. Lolol



Ukrainian pilots have not trained on American jets. Poland has offered a batch of Mig 29 fighters. The Ukrainians already fly those jets


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## Han Patriot

kingQamaR said:


> Ukrainian pilots have not trained on American jets. Poland has offered a batch of Mig 29 fighters. The Ukrainians already fly those jets


Send in the American troops, why only use the Ukrainians as cannon fodder. Come on Yankees! Fight the weak Russians.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Han Patriot said:


> Send in the American troops, why only use the Ukrainians as cannon fodder. Come on Yankees! Fight the weak Russians.



The advantage of this model is if you succeed, you can credit the US equipment. If you fail, you can blame the "unskilled" Ukranian soldiers.

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## CrazyZ

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> EU already giving up some of its sanctions against Russia, and it is not even in winter yet.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549420800213626881
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549399099534893056


Whole world is expected to have wheat crops hit by high temperatures.......except Russia. Russia is expected to have bumper wheat production this year. Hard for sanctions to work as long as Russia has bountiful hard assets to trade.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549505610756096000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549505040158711812

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## kingQamaR

Han Patriot said:


> Send in the American troops, why only use the Ukrainians as cannon fodder. Come on Yankees! Fight the weak Russians.




You mean Send the US 82nd Airborne in north of Kiev and east of Kharkov as peace-keeping forces and to prevent any further Russian incursions into the Ukraine ! there wont be much left of your ally Russian army in Ukraine when they meet 82nd airborne

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iskander missiles


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549589114630000640
Mi-28 attack aircraft


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549590547395854336


kingQamaR said:


> You mean Send the US 82nd Airborne in north of Kiev and east of Kharkov as peace-keeping forces and to prevent any further Russian incursions into the Ukraine ! there wont be much left of your ally Russian army in Ukraine when they meet 82nd airborne



Americans can't fight anymore. Too fat, stupid, chronic diseases.

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## sammuel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549505610756096000



Yehh sure , a real humanitarian .

Aleppo, Syria :







~


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> Yehh sure , a real humanitarian .
> 
> Aleppo, Syria :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Already rebuilt.

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## sammuel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Already rebuilt.



yeh sure :

*
Syria: Ruling over Aleppo’s Ruins*

Almost six years after retaking Aleppo, the Assad regime is again largely in control, but the city is a shadow of its former self. Many neighbourhoods remain in ruins from Syrian army shelling and Russian bombing. Militias roam the streets and an informal economy thrives, but there is little else.









Syria: Ruling over Aleppo’s Ruins


Aleppo was devastated by bombing and shelling during the Syrian war. It remains unsafe, with residents subject to shakedowns by the regime’s security forces and various militias. Damascus and its outside backers should curb this predation as a crucial first step toward the city’s recovery.




www.crisisgroup.org





~

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## F-22Raptor

Han Patriot said:


> First the magic weapon was
> 
> Bayraktar
> Then m777
> Then himars
> 
> 
> Dude you don't defeat a superpower with these alone.... You need fuel and ammo and many more. Send them F16s then i would say it would make a difference. 4 HIMARS which 2 destroyed is basically useless. You might as well send them canned food. You gullible lot believes whatever is fed to you in the media, one day they drum up M777, you guys will climax, the next day HIMARS, you climax again. Lolol



The M777s have had a significant impact in destroying Russian armor and soldiers. They’ve lost a handful at most. 

No HIMARS have been destroyed and Russia can’t stop them. They’ve already stabilized the front line and more are coming. 

Your tears are delicious

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549446109365411845

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549398330316398607


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549446109365411845





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549351722191142912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549346045427056641

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The M777s have had a significant impact in destroying Russian armor and soldiers. They’ve lost a handful at most.
> 
> No HIMARS have been destroyed and Russia can’t stop them. They’ve already stabilized the front line and more are coming.
> 
> Your tears are delicious



Americans ain't going to supply thousands of HIMARS rounds per month for years and years. They don't have the money. They don't have the capacity. The stalemate is only temporary. Once Americans stop supplying HIMARS rounds, Ukrainians will lose again. Ukrainians are outnumbered 4 to 1. You can't win a war outnumbered 4 to 1 unless you have absolutely overwhelming military hardware technological and / or quantity advantage.

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## The SC

Zelinsky

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The amount of sheer desperation that the Biden administration is showing is unbelievable. Why sanction countries if you want to issue that kind of desperate appeal? Putin really gives nightmares to the operatives of the Deep State.


Politics should be rational. Unless you deal with fanatics. Iran is offered a hand it’s up to Iran to take it or not.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Politics should be rational. Unless you deal with fanatics. Iran is offered a hand it’s up to Iran to take it or not.



Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The US needs Iran to fight Russia. Not falling for it.

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## Tomcats

K_Bin_W said:


> Russia has almost destroyed Ukraine, It's an asymmetrical war far.


People have been saying this for 3 months+ and yet Ukraine is still fighting if it has been destroyed how is it still putting up resistance? What you say is paradoxical. People will say its 'western equipment' without realizing most Ukrainian Army equipment is local+Russian/Soviet and having the best equipment makes no difference if you are a defeated force, just look at the now defunct Afghan Army. The Ukrainian Army is not a defeated force.

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## zhxy

Tomcats said:


> People have been saying this for 3 months+ and yet Ukraine is still fighting if it has been destroyed how is it still putting up resistance? What you say is paradoxical. People will say its 'western equipment' without realizing most Ukrainian Army equipment is local+Russian/Soviet and having the best equipment makes no difference if you are a defeated force, just look at the now defunct Afghan Army. The Ukrainian Army is not a defeated force.



Russia has absolute air superiority, they can carpet-bomb and turn all Ukrainian cities into dust.

If Russia mobilizes the whole country, and uses all of its military capabilities, I think the war will be over in a few months.

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549505610756096000
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549505040158711812


More bullshit.

1. The russians thought this was gonna be a pushover. They could roll into kiev and divide the country or put a puppet in place.
As such they initially did not want to damage to much infrastructure.

When that failed they have no problem flattening cities with artillery though.

2. Considering the wide and heavy western support for Ukraine….choosing high altitude ww2 style terrorbombing (with losses, there is no air supremacy yet) on cities is THE push the west needs for a “no fly zone”.
Putting russia much much further down the hole.

3. Where was the concern in chechnia or the fsb false flag attack? Concern in syria?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

zhxy said:


> Russia has absolute air superiority, they can carpet-bomb and turn all Ukrainian cities into dust.
> 
> If Russia mobilizes the whole country, and uses all of its military capabilities, I think the war will be over in a few months.



It is forever war. Just like CO2 increase / climate change is forever. Just like covid-19 is forever. It's all money down the drain forever. No need to carpet bomb.

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## Tomcats

zhxy said:


> Russia has absolute air superiority, they can carpet-bomb and turn all Ukrainian cities into dust.
> 
> If Russia mobilizes the whole country, and uses all of its military capabilities, I think the war will be over in a few months.


Well clearly they are ineffective in using that capability if they have it. I mean the Ukrainian Air Force still operates albeit in a limited capacity.

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The US needs Iran to fight Russia. Not falling for it.


Iran is offered a deal. Iran can take it or reject it. If selling oil to Europe is fighting Russia then be it. If permanent anti west rhetoric is a Persian national heritage then ok. It’s difficult too impossible to deal with fanatics people.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Tomcats said:


> People have been saying this for 3 months+ and yet Ukraine is still fighting if it has been destroyed how is it still putting up resistance? What you say is paradoxical. People will say its 'western equipment' without realizing most Ukrainian Army equipment is local+Russian/Soviet and having the best equipment makes no difference if you are a defeated force, just look at the now defunct Afghan Army. The Ukrainian Army is not a defeated force.



The US sent 300 HIMARS to Ukraine. That's every single HIMARS the US has got. Not a small amount. The Ukrainian army only uses American artillery, not Soviet era artillery.



Viet said:


> Iran is offered a deal. Iran can take it or reject it. If selling oil is fighting Russia then be it.



Iran rejects the deal. America is enemy of Iran and wants to butcher Iranian civilians for not accepting American hegemony.

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## ZeGerman

zhxy said:


> Russia has absolute air superiority, they can carpet-bomb and turn all Ukrainian cities into dust.
> 
> If Russia mobilizes the whole country, and uses all of its military capabilities, I think the war will be over in a few months.


Carpet bomb cities to dust with hundreds of thousands dead without any reaction and impact internationally??? They would lose almost all allies and Nato probably would start a no fly zone.

And THEN what is russia going to do? They are in no way ready to take that on, especially not on ukranian soil…


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Carpet bomb cities to dust with hundreds of thousands dead without any reaction and impact internationally??? They would lose almost all allies and Nato probably would start a no fly zone.
> 
> And THEN what is russia going to do? They are in no way ready to take that on, especially not on ukranian soil…



Carpet bombing is expensive. Just bomb the oil refineries. Modern society depends on oil. Without oil, no modern agriculture. Ukraine's population shrinks to less than 10 million because of reduction in carrying capacity back to pre oil age Ukraine. Destroying the few oil refineries with cruise missile kills more Ukrainians than carpet bombing cities ever will, and does so at much lower cost.

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## Tomcats

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The US sent 300 HIMARS to Ukraine. That's every single HIMARS the US has got. Not a small amount. The Ukrainian army only uses American artillery, not Soviet era artillery.
> 
> 
> 
> Iran rejects the deal. America is enemy of Iran and wants to butcher Iranian civilians for not accepting American hegemony.


Firstly, no they do still use Soviet era artillery and that makes up the majority of their artillery. Secondly, no the US has not donated their 'entire' HIMARS equipment to Ukraine, you have overestimated the actual value by around 100x.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Tomcats said:


> Firstly, no they do still use Soviet era artillery and that makes up the majority of their artillery. Secondly, no the US has not donated their 'entire' HIMARS equipment to Ukraine, you have overestimated the actual value by around 100x.



If Americans do not send 300 HIMARS to Ukraine then they cannot stop Russians who outnumber Ukrainians 4 to 1. Only continuous spending can achieve stalemate. Americans will find beating Russians is not so easy. It's as hard as beating covid-19 and CO2 increase despite trillions of dollars down the toilet.

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## Viet

zhxy said:


> Russia has absolute air superiority, they can carpet-bomb and turn all Ukrainian cities into dust.
> 
> If Russia mobilizes the whole country, and uses all of its military capabilities, I think the war will be over in a few months.


Already happens Putin is doing terror bombing.
However nothing with air superiority Putin is naked. He even sends 50y old T62 to Ukraine.

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## gambit

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> The advantage of this model is if you succeed, you can credit the US equipment. If you fail, you can blame the "unskilled" Ukranian soldiers.


Yeah...Like how the Soviets and China did with Iraq.

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## Viet



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


>



T-62M has 4 km range laser guided missiles. Better than T-72 Poland sent to Ukraine which don't have missiles.


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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> T-62M has 4 km range laser guided missiles. Better than T-72 Poland sent to Ukraine which don't have missiles.


Those tanks are easy prey for antitank missiles.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Those tanks are easy prey for antitank missiles.



Not really. Javelin range 2.5 km. Mi-28 and Ka-52 helicopters range 100 km with Hermes NLOS missile. Javelin would have trouble getting within 2.5 km of T-62M. T-62M also kills Javelin with 4 km range laser guided missiles. Javelin is not useful in Ukraine.


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not really. Javelin range 2.5 km. Mi-28 and Ka-52 helicopters range 100 km with Hermes NLOS missile. Javelin would have trouble getting within 2.5 km of T-62M. T-62M also kills Javelin with 4 km range laser guided missiles. Javelin is not useful in Ukraine.


That’s not going to change much. The more resources Putin pours into military campaign the faster he makes Russia a chinese colony.

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> The world has just 10 weeks of wheat left. -Telegraph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World has just 10 weeks' worth of wheat left after Ukraine war
> 
> 
> Food supplies are being rocked by Russia's invasion of the 'breadbasket of Europe'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 863375


JESSE! WE NEED TO START A WHEAT FARM JESSE! WE CAN CHARGE EXHORBITANT PRICES TO OUR CUSTOMERS TO REAP MASSIVE PROFITS JESSE!

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> JESSE! WE NEED TO START A WHEAT FARM JESSE! WE CAN CHARGE EXHORBITANT PRICES TO OUR CUSTOMERS TO REAP MASSIVE PROFITS JESSE!

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## MH.Yang

EU to soften sanctions on Russian banks to allow food trade​








EU to soften sanctions on Russian banks to allow food trade


The European Union will amend its sanctions on Moscow on Wednesday by allowing the unfreezing of some funds of top Russian banks that may be required to ease bottlenecks in the global trade of food and fertilisers, a draft document showed.




www.reuters.com

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## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> The M777s have had a significant impact in destroying Russian armor and soldiers. They’ve lost a handful at most.
> 
> No HIMARS have been destroyed and Russia can’t stop them. They’ve already stabilized the front line and more are coming.
> 
> Your tears are delicious


I don't know why you need to be emotional. It's a Russian war not Chinese war. You fanboys are cheering like no tomorrow for a war which has nothing to do with you. Yup no HIMARS destroyed, yet we saw all the blown up pieces. 4 piece of MLRS ain't gonna change much and for gods sake M777? We produce the equivalent in the hundreds.



kingQamaR said:


> You mean Send the US 82nd Airborne in north of Kiev and east of Kharkov as peace-keeping forces and to prevent any further Russian incursions into the Ukraine ! there wont be much left of your ally Russian army in Ukraine when they meet 82nd airborne


Do why don't you do it hero? Lol



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> The advantage of this model is if you succeed, you can credit the US equipment. If you fail, you can blame the "unskilled" Ukranian soldiers.


US have no balls to fight a direct war. If they did, it will be an apocalypse. US can shout and scream about Russia, they ain't dare to lift a single finger and face the Russians direct.

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## The SC




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## mulj

ZeGerman said:


> I am not discussing the “theocratic ideal” of muslim slavery ( and on top of that only according to certain schools of thought…others have far harsher and different interpretations), but how it was generally practiced in history by arab muslims…
> 
> This varies from some mild forms to absolute horrors. And formed the majority and/or was tolerated by the majority.
> Where was your ilk when the barbary states constantly pillaged and slaved parts of the european coast…effectively depopulating it?
> 
> It is that history i am asking people to atleast be honest about.
> 
> It is like someone criticizing british colonialist crimes and i am like “well those were not “truly” christians/british. We are civilised and peaceful.



Dude, i can go back and forth with you all day long but it is futile i see you do not like muslims and consider us at least as hidden enemy in grand schemies of things but the truth is that you have real enemy in your state and society structure, so instead of pointing out on us finger for feel good sentiment, introspect how did you come to the point where state chase away farmers and forbid them growing cattle in favor of artificial meet and ask question to yourself what is next to destroy in society.

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## MH.Yang

F-22Raptor said:


> The M777s have had a significant impact in destroying Russian armor and soldiers. They’ve lost a handful at most.
> 
> No HIMARS have been destroyed and Russia can’t stop them. They’ve already stabilized the front line and more are coming.
> 
> Your tears are delicious


Are you sure you want to brag about M777 once?

We are replacing all towed artillery with PCL-181 and PZL-05. The output of PCL-181 is expected to exceed 10000(replace more than 10000 66type152mm).

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## Soldier35

Is it possible to catch the most dangerous Russian bouncing mine OZM-72? Such an experiment was conducted by the Military Lens channel in Ukraine

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## Lava820

MH.Yang said:


> We are replacing all towed artillery with PCL-181 and PZL-05. The output of PCL-181 is expected to exceed 10000.


What are the weight of these guns? Can PLA deploy these guns in mountains, I mean can these guns be airlifted from one valley to another using heavy-lift helicopters?


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## MH.Yang

Lava820 said:


> What are the weight of these guns? Can PLA deploy these guns in mountains, I mean can these guns be airlifted from one valley to another using heavy-lift helicopters?








PCL-181 - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org













PLZ-05 - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





PCL-181 is very light and has strong off-road ability. It can even be used on the Tibetan Plateau.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Han Patriot said:


> US have no balls to fight a direct war. If they did, it will be an apocalypse. US can shout and scream about Russia, they ain't dare to lift a single finger and face the Russians direct.


You mean like the lack of balls the Chinese show over the South China Sea?
Or is it perhaps an ROI calculation?

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## Han Patriot

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You mean like the lack of balls the Chinese show over the South China Sea?
> Or is it perhaps an ROI calculation?


Talking about balls, wonder why the Americans got chased away. Fat boy Kim is lol now. For all the loud bravado, US is still spineless against the Russians. Buggers could win in Syria with a crippled carrier, that explains alot about real strength.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549668907589541891

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549673897150267392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549672887715598337

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## F-22Raptor

Han Patriot said:


> I don't know why you need to be emotional. It's a Russian war not Chinese war. You fanboys are cheering like no tomorrow for a war which has nothing to do with you. Yup no HIMARS destroyed, yet we saw all the blown up pieces. 4 piece of MLRS ain't gonna change much and for gods sake M777? We produce the equivalent in the hundreds.
> 
> 
> Do why don't you do it hero? Lol
> 
> 
> US have no balls to fight a direct war. If they did, it will be an apocalypse. US can shout and scream about Russia, they ain't dare to lift a single finger and face the Russians direct.




No HIMARS have been destroyed to date. Those 2 Russian videos have already been proven to be disinformation.  

The M777s aren't even being used to their full capability. All their digital fire control systems were stripped before being handed over to Ukraine. Only 6 of 136 have been lost.

The reality is the US is grinding the Russian military into dust with less than $10B in military aid to date.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549735520263086081
Another 4 HIMARS to be sent for a total of 16.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549735520263086081
> Another 4 HIMARS to be sent for a total of 16.



16 is too few. Need 300 at least.

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## Broccoli

Russia has massive advantage and yet they can only move forwards extremely slowly in few small areas and some people in here think they can handle NATO. Russians also controls less Ukrainian territory that they did three months ago.

Now they've shot down two of their newest fighters (SU-34M & SU-35) in two days due HIMARS panic and Russian navy is moving their ships away from Sevastopol because Ukraine is going to get 300km range missiles.

Russians will find out why M270 is called "steel rain".

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## Paul2

MH.Yang said:


> PCL-181 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLZ-05 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCL-181 is very light and has strong off-road ability. It can even be used on the Tibetan Plateau.
> 
> View attachment 863513



Take a note, PCL-181 is a 155mm howitzer, not 152mm. Similarly, PLA's light direct fire weapons went from Soviet 100mm to 105mm. And mortars from 82mm to 81mm. China's domestic 120mm mortar ammo has firing tables for PBP-172 (barrel length of 172cm - same as Western mortars), which are incompatible with Russian 120mm mortars, which are shorter.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Broccoli said:


> Russia has massive advantage and yet they can only move forwards extremely slowly in few small areas and some people in here think they can handle NATO. Russians also controls less Ukrainian territory that they did three months ago.
> 
> Now they've shot down two of their newest fighters (SU-34M & SU-35) in two days due HIMARS panic and Russian navy is moving their ships away from Sevastopol because Ukraine is going to get 300km range missiles.
> 
> Russians will find out why M270 is called "steel rain".



M270 does not have the range to engaged Tornado-S which has range 120 km if not more with GLONASS guided 300 mm rockets.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Lava820 said:


> What are the weight of these guns? Can PLA deploy these guns in mountains, I mean can these guns be airlifted from one valley to another using heavy-lift helicopters?



Indians already shivering...



Tai Hai Chen said:


> 16 is too few. Need 300 at least.



16 Himars are more than enough for Russia. Need 300 for China.


----------



## Lava820

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Indians already shivering...


Yeah for sure bro


https://www.google.com/amp/s/sg.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/china-reacts-indias-deployment-m777-053550411.html











India's plan to deploy BrahMos missile escalates border tension, but of no actual threat: observers - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

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## Broccoli

🤣









Russia Says It’s Losing Because Ukraine Has Experimental Mutant Troops Created in Secret Biolabs


MIGUEL MEDINANearly five months into its senseless war against Ukraine, Russia has concocted a wild new explanation for why the Kremlin’s plans for a quick takeover fell apart so spectacularly—because Ukrainian troops were turned into superhuman killing machines during “secret experiments” in...




www.yahoo.com

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Broccoli said:


> 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Says It’s Losing Because Ukraine Has Experimental Mutant Troops Created in Secret Biolabs
> 
> 
> MIGUEL MEDINANearly five months into its senseless war against Ukraine, Russia has concocted a wild new explanation for why the Kremlin’s plans for a quick takeover fell apart so spectacularly—because Ukrainian troops were turned into superhuman killing machines during “secret experiments” in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com



Russian excuses are worse than their performance in Ukraine against NATO.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549761298455461888

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Helicopter launched Hermes NLOS missile attacking a warehouse.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549771649553252356


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549761298455461888



16 is too few. Need 300.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> It's a Russian war not Chinese war.
> 
> US have no balls to fight a direct war.


How about China have no balls to fight a direct war? It is a Russian war not Chinese war but it is also US war? I could tell you to make up your mind but being inconsistent is normal for you guys here.


----------



## Paul2

gambit said:


> How about China have no balls to fight a direct war? It is a Russian war not Chinese war but it is also US war? I could tell you to make up your mind but being inconsistent is normal for you guys here.



Beijing is very happy with Russia wasting away its military in Ukraine. In reality, it was a bigger boogeyman than USA to PLA general staff at least until 2005-2007, and the direction of PLA rearmament was to fight a potential war with resurgent Russia with its still significant trained manpower back then, and endless stocks of ammo, and cold war era hardware.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549722562191556609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549737259829809154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549744319615082500

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549705985668808705


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549786490376445954


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549717969189670912


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549725050382737408


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549637181064585218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549637183497183233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549789824856489985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549774746862161921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549776944295809028

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549739600922529792

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Nazis have defeated the Slavics.

Great moment in history.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russians capture Ukrainian T-72M1 donated by Poland.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549793262931791873

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

The moment a Ukrainian plane was shot down during an air battle

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549795291687174145
Huge HIMARS strike

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549643166487158784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549686060695027712


----------



## Broccoli

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russian excuses are worse than their performance in Ukraine against NATO.



They are fighting against Ukraine not NATO.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549795291687174145
> Huge HIMARS strike




But but... Ukraine lost all M270 and HIMARS or sold them at black markets.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Broccoli said:


> They are fighting against Ukraine not NATO.



Russia is not fighting Ukraine alone rather fighting Ukraine and NATO together in Ukraine. NATO is providing People, Equipment, Training, Intelligence, Propaganda, sanctions/economic support, Political support to defeat the Russians.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549838825366687747


----------



## F-22Raptor

Broccoli said:


> They are fighting against Ukraine not NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But but... Ukraine lost all M270 and HIMARS or sold them at black markets.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549804025905815560

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549804025905815560



US Himars are whooping Russian asses.

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## F-22Raptor

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> US Himars are whooping Russian asses.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549812055284260868

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549813148223520768

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549812055284260868
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549813148223520768



At this time Russia is throwing the kitchen sink at Ukraine and NATO but with no success.

Russia will be balkanized as below after this war.

Great opportunity for China to reclaim control of Far Eastern part of Russia which historical and legitamately belonged to China.


----------



## patero

Broccoli said:


> 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Says It’s Losing Because Ukraine Has Experimental Mutant Troops Created in Secret Biolabs
> 
> 
> MIGUEL MEDINANearly five months into its senseless war against Ukraine, Russia has concocted a wild new explanation for why the Kremlin’s plans for a quick takeover fell apart so spectacularly—because Ukrainian troops were turned into superhuman killing machines during “secret experiments” in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com


I'm having trouble keeping up with the Russian narrative, but now it's the heroic Russian special operation against the Ukrainian Nazi/Satanist/Zionist/Mutant-Zombie hordes. What's next, Ukrainian Martians?

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## The SC

Destruction of the positions of the Ukrainian army





Footage of the use of the Kornet to destroy the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Seversk

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> The moment a Ukrainian plane was shot down during an air battle


That looks exactly like the footage of the downed (some say friendly fire) russian SU34 in the Kherson area a few days ago.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549874250194075648


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549878812539764737

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SalarHaqq

Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov confirms expanded war goals. Other than the Donbas region, Kherson and Zaporozhzhye provinces as well as a number of other territories are officially cited.

​Sergey Lavrov: Russia has expanded its Ukraine war goals​*Russian military aims no longer focused only on eastern Donbas region, says foreign minister. *

By Wilhelmine Preussen 
July 20, 2022 2:59 pm 









Sergey Lavrov: Russia has expanded its Ukraine war goals


Russian military aims no longer focused only on eastern Donbas region, says foreign minister.




www.politico.eu


----------



## 925boy

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Nazis have defeated the Slavics.


Logic dyslexia.


Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Great moment in history.


For Ukraine? smh


----------



## kingQamaR

Han Patriot said:


> I don't know why you need to be emotional. It's a Russian war not Chinese war. You fanboys are cheering like no tomorrow for a war which has nothing to do with you. Yup no HIMARS destroyed, yet we saw all the blown up pieces. 4 piece of MLRS ain't gonna change much and for gods sake M777? We produce the equivalent in the hundreds.
> 
> 
> Do why don't you do it hero? Lol
> 
> 
> US have no balls to fight a direct war. If they did, it will be an apocalypse. US can shout and scream about Russia, they ain't dare to lift a single finger and face the Russians direct.



Why is Han supporting Russia against Ukraine? 

China has not even sent a single soldier or a piece of gun to Ukraine, so what help are you talking about

You muppet!

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## Han Patriot

kingQamaR said:


> China has not even sent a single soldier or a piece of gun to Ukraine, so what help are you talking about supporting Russia you muppet! Unlike USA help to Kiev


Exactly, since when was China involved? We are not stronk like US. We are not the shit stirrer here matey. Lol



gambit said:


> How about China have no balls to fight a direct war? It is a Russian war not Chinese war but it is also US war? I could tell you to make up your mind but being inconsistent is normal for you guys here.


We ain't the one stirring shit mate. And since when is China stronk like US? US is so low now to stoop to our level? Lolol



F-22Raptor said:


> No HIMARS have been destroyed to date. Those 2 Russian videos have already been proven to be disinformation.
> 
> The M777s aren't even being used to their full capability. All their digital fire control systems were stripped before being handed over to Ukraine. Only 6 of 136 have been lost.
> 
> The reality is the US is grinding the Russian military into dust with less than $10B in military aid to date.


Sure, None is destroyed according to our arms hair Intel here. Dust? So far I see Russia grinding and winning mate.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Putin is becoming desparate as Russia is losing the war.​​Erdogan shows Putin who is the boss.​​Putin forced to awkwardly wait for Turkey's President Erdogan​


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549710511884963844

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## kingQamaR

Han Patriot said:


> Exactly, since when was China involved? We are not stronk like US. We are not the shit stirrer here matey. Lol
> 
> 
> We ain't the one stirring shit mate. And since when is China stronk like US? US is so low now to stoop to our level? Lolol
> 
> 
> Sure, None is destroyed according to our arms hair Intel here. Dust? So far I see Russia grinding and winning mate.





Han Patriot said:


> Exactly, since when was China involved? We are not stronk like US. We are not the shit stirrer here matey. Lol
> 
> 
> We ain't the one stirring shit mate. And since when is China stronk like US? US is so low now to stoop to our level? Lolol
> 
> 
> Sure, None is destroyed according to our arms hair Intel here. Dust? So far I see Russia grinding and winning mate.



hold your head up and keep doing what you normally do if people know you well they won’t believe your lies


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549710511884963844



Ukraine has also expanded her goals to reclaim Crimea.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549874305969840131

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549874305969840131



Do they know Zelensky is a Jew and his wrath could be fatal to their nations?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549776976252116993


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549812055284260868
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549813148223520768





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549868771430617088

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Viet

F-35s from Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska, fly with Republic of Korea Air Force F-35s over the Yellow Sea in July. On Wednesday, the Czech Republic announced it plans to buy 24 of the stealth fighter jets as part of a vast effort to modernize its forces and get its aircraft and weapons on NATO standards in wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.U.S. AIR FORCE / SENIOR AIRMAN TREVOR GORDNIER









Czech Republic To Buy 24 F-35s Amid Russia's War on Ukraine, Ministry Says


“Given the worsening security situation,” Prague says, it must bolster air forces now.




www.defenseone.com


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Han Patriot said:


> Talking about balls, wonder why the Americans got chased away. Fat boy Kim is lol now. For all the loud bravado, US is still spineless against the Russians. Buggers could win in Syria with a crippled carrier, that explains alot about real strength.


In the same way as a beggar chases away each car that passes by him as he sits near a highway. The beggar is really powerful…


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> F-35s from Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska, fly with Republic of Korea Air Force F-35s over the Yellow Sea in July. On Wednesday, the Czech Republic announced it plans to buy 24 of the stealth fighter jets as part of a vast effort to modernize its forces and get its aircraft and weapons on NATO standards in wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.U.S. AIR FORCE / SENIOR AIRMAN TREVOR GORDNIER
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Czech Republic To Buy 24 F-35s Amid Russia's War on Ukraine, Ministry Says
> 
> 
> “Given the worsening security situation,” Prague says, it must bolster air forces now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenseone.com


There is no point having F35 and F22 if you have no balls to use it. Weapons are only weapons when you use it, else it's just scrap metal. Lolol



A.P. Richelieu said:


> In the same way as a beggar chases away each car that passes by him as he sits near a highway. The beggar is really powerful…


Tell me which beggar owns 1 trillion of US treasuries. Lolol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Han Patriot said:


> There is no point having F35 and F22 if you have no balls to use it. Weapons are only weapons when you use it, else it's just scrap metal. Lolol
> 
> 
> Tell me which beggar owns 1 trillion of US treasuries. Lolol


Which does change the fact that China is ”forcing” the US to do whatever the US wants to do in the South China Sea.

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## Han Patriot

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Which does change the fact that China is ”forcing” the US to do whatever the US wants to do in the South China Sea.


It's very common for navies to shadow and push the other navy out. Its just routine show. So let's get back go topic, US being a direct participant in Ukraine, is not sending troops. Thats shows you something. They are afaird of Russia. Russians don't even need new shiny carriers to win in Syria, they just use a rust bucket.... That's strength!

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> There is no point having F35 and F22 if you have no balls to use it. Weapons are only weapons when you use it, else it's just scrap metal. Lolol
> 
> 
> Tell me which beggar owns 1 trillion of US treasuries. Lolol


The Czechs not using the jets because are too afraid of China or Russia?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Han Patriot said:


> It's very common for navies to shadow and push the other navy out. Its just routine show. So let's get back go topic, US being a direct participant in Ukraine, is not sending troops. Thats shows you something. They are afaird of Russia. Russians don't even need new shiny carriers to win in Syria, they just use a rust bucket.... That's strength!


You do not ”push” someone out when they are following their planned route.
The US is not a direct participant in Ukraine, nor in the Syria insurgency.
When the Russians tried to ”push” the US in Syria, they got their butt kicked.
The US simply believes that the current strategy suits them best.

Russia is carefully avoiding anything that would bring them into war with NATO much like China avoids doing anything that would bring them into war with the US.
According to Your reasoning, both Russia and China are sissies.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549877435675676672

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

What happens to Russia imports?
Putin stops publishing import figures. Probably too embarrassing. Down 60 percent. Even imports from best friend China down 40 percent.
Russia will end up like Srilanka where imports collapsing, hospitals running out medicines.










Sanktionen gegen Russland: Auch Exporte aus China brechen ein


Offiziell unterstützt China keine Sanktionen gegen Russland und erklärte sich als „strategischer Partner“ Moskaus – die Exporte brechen aber ein.




www.merkur.de


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549943390963482624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549943405127602176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549943409732976640


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549862153192177664


----------



## Paul2

A month ago, there was a figure of KIA+WIA+MIA crossing 100,000 of combined civilians, and military casualties. Now, we have Ukrainian figure of 39,000 KIA + serious injuries, with no clue to the level of severity of injury.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
 1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550015669365768194

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549773548843057152


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549905663052103681
It seems Russians have adopted and their air defenses are taking down these "muh HIMARS" rockets. There are also munition issues. The worry has already started in some circles.

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## NotSure

Footage showing a recent Iskander Strike against ukr ammo depots. This is a hypersonic quasi ballistic missile with a very flat trajectory, at around 50km altitude this missile flies with ~2.5km/s and random evasive manoeuvres + penetration aids like decoys. There is probably no Nato ground based airdef, which is able to intercept this hypersonic missile with a high probability. Even AEGIS + SM-6 would have a hard time, because it can't reach the altitude and manoeuvre there, so it has to wait until the Iskander dives down at nearly 90°.

The air based version with the name Kinhzal has even more speed, because the carrier Mig-31 gives it 10-15km altitude and 300-600m/s additional speed, so the missiles motor can use more fuel for gaining speed up to ~M10.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/w4cnfb

Few months ago, same nearly 90° dive:


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550033844308525056


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549717403084505090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549920705361346560


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549758394638163973


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> The Czechs not using the jets because are too afraid of China or Russia?


For the nth time, why compare with some small potatoes. We are talking about USA, stop deflecting the question. Don't be a chicken! Hahahha



A.P. Richelieu said:


> You do not ”push” someone out when they are following their planned route.
> The US is not a direct participant in Ukraine, nor in the Syria insurgency.
> When the Russians tried to ”push” the US in Syria, they got their butt kicked.
> The US simply believes that the current strategy suits them best.
> 
> Russia is carefully avoiding anything that would bring them into war with NATO much like China avoids doing anything that would bring them into war with the US.
> According to Your reasoning, both Russia and China are sissies.


Its called shadowing, all. Navies do it to foreign vessels entering their EEZ. Anyway stop talking about China. What has China got to do with US cowardice?

Until now I asked a very simple question, with all the shouting and screaming, why isn't stronk supapowa America fighting to protect the Ukrainians. Lol. Please stop deflecting the question TO China or whatever country. WHERE IS THE US Army? ANSWER ME DAMN IT! STOP TALKING ABOUT SOME MIRACLE WEAPON M777 OR HIMARS OR WHATEVR, WHERE IS THE US. MILITARY WHEN UKRIANE NEEDS THEM THE MOST?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550063979246100480

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550063979246100480




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550097696790306817

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Soldier35

On the night of July 21, Russian troops launched a missile attack on the Ukrainian military depot in Nikolaev. Local residents reported a series of violent explosions throughout the night in warehouses, moments now visible on video. After the attack on the warehouse in Nikolaev, the SBU began looking for saboteurs who had passed the exact coordinates of the object to the Russian military.







Ukrainian soldiers showed an episode of the battle with erroneous fire on their troops. Apparently there is no communication between the military units.







A Ukrainian tank was hijacked by Russian militias. Events unfolded like this: four Ukrainian tanks and fifty soldiers tried to drive the Donetsk militias out of their positions. In a battle that lasted 5 hours, the militia went into the flanks and destroyed three vehicles with blows to the sides of Ukrainian tanks. The fourth stalled Ukrainian tank, under the cover of a smoke screen, was driven from the battlefield by the militias. The commander of this tank was also taken prisoner. Details in the video, the video has subtitles.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550106717706485762

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Han Patriot said:


> For the nth time, why compare with some small potatoes. We are talking about USA, stop deflecting the question. Don't be a chicken! Hahahha
> 
> 
> Its called shadowing, all. Navies do it to foreign vessels entering their EEZ. Anyway stop talking about China. What has China got to do with US cowardice?
> 
> Until now I asked a very simple question, with all the shouting and screaming, why isn't stronk supapowa America fighting to protect the Ukrainians. Lol. Please stop deflecting the question TO China or whatever country. WHERE IS THE US Army? ANSWER ME DAMN IT! STOP TALKING ABOUT SOME MIRACLE WEAPON M777 OR HIMARS OR WHATEVR, WHERE IS THE US. MILITARY WHEN UKRIANE NEEDS THEM THE MOST?


Yes, Chinese warships follow US warships which travels through waters where they have every right to be. That is not ”pushing”. That is like a dog barking at a passing car which hardly notices the existence of the dog.
You have received your answer. Because they think that defeating Russia through arms shipments gives the best possible outcome for them in this conflict.
China believes producing hot air about alledged violations of their (not really) waters gives the best result for China.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550015669365768194
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549773548843057152


Putin laughing people in Europe suffers under gas shortage. Putin is the king of gas. what to do with gas surpluses? Most likely he will just burn it. there is no place to store it.


----------



## Broccoli

Remember when Russians said that they'll bomb all countries what give Ukraine long-range rocket systems and SAM's? I'm here wondering what are they waiting since western countries are openly delivering both kinda systems.... lol.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550077554178068481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550111593697906688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550160500222197761

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550179727163498496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550158342257053696

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Broccoli

Blonk. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550181090190557184
Fresh sanctions for russia to whine about. 








EU slaps Russia with more sanctions over Ukraine war


European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said that the sanctions send "a strong signal to Moscow: we will keep the pressure high for as long as it takes." #EuropeNews




www.euronews.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550200861703475200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550196875525062656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550181525492228104

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550106717706485762




Talk is cheap. You just can't make shit up. Now, check this out! 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550233474434465792
Ukrainians are losing one town after another while you keep throwing around "Muh HIMARS this", "Muh HIMARS that".

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## The SC




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549996803042398208

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Broccoli said:


> Blonk.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550181090190557184
> Fresh sanctions for russia to whine about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU slaps Russia with more sanctions over Ukraine war
> 
> 
> European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said that the sanctions send "a strong signal to Moscow: we will keep the pressure high for as long as it takes." #EuropeNews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550073973165232128
The Russians are turning the tables on every propaganda that the Russian haters put out there.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550195381031641089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550178054227607555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550151886807994376

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550088205894033416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550045903284740097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550135332770877448

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549877435675676672




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550220314277253120

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550230407479808000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550229725112590336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550224870956584960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550194007208230912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550226979881947138

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MultaniGuy

On second thought, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan should support Russia in its war in Ukraine.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549951754514604033

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550186682124832768







The Ukrainians are inching ever closer to Kherson

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550224870956584960




👍

"*But as one European politician said to me," Stokes added, "'I'm in favor of all these sanctions, but my voters have to heat their homes too.*'"

 

Reality is hitting home in the West. Meanwhile, Russia is selling its oil, gas, and other resources outside of the US Dollar and Euro currencies. And as long as China is standing by with Russia, with other countries also opting to trade with Russia while disregarding the Western-imposed sanctions, the Freemasonries will not be able to suffocate Russia financially. 

The only likely outcome of Russia vs West conflict is West's financial mechanism, created after World War II, will be broken down and many countries will just start to abandon the US Dollar and the Euro - a goal that Putin has pursued when he was preparing for the war that the West has unleashed on his country.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550186682124832768
> View attachment 863991
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukrainians are inching ever closer to Kherson





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550044056809619457

ROFL

The story of "muh HIMARS" aint working; it is getting busted. Now, the new propaganda seems to be based on the bogus "1-million Ukrainian-led" offensive in the South, Kherson included. The Ukrainians have been trying it and every time getting their forces rooted.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550181956880846848


----------



## Han Patriot

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yes, Chinese warships follow US warships which travels through waters where they have every right to be. That is not ”pushing”. That is like a dog barking at a passing car which hardly notices the existence of the dog.
> You have received your answer. Because they think that defeating Russia through arms shipments gives the best possible outcome for them in this conflict.
> China believes producing hot air about alledged violations of their (not really) waters gives the best result for China.


Whatever makes you happy, the point is we are not talking about China. Best outcome? So by sitting behind and sending piecemeal weapons, that's the best outcome? Dude, 20% of Ukraine is under occupation now. Just admit US is afraid of a direct war with Russia. Why can't you just admit it like a man. Lolol


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550268368233631749

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550279925709434880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550273064042102784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550072852531093506


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550054352215220224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550255396178255878

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550239873872928769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550234453867388928


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550233131529261057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550229750253338625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550216805309992960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550215052288036866

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550215052288036866


----------



## S10

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550186682124832768
> View attachment 863991
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukrainians are inching ever closer to Kherson


I've been hearing about Steiner's counteroffensive since April. Still waiting.

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550088205894033416
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550045903284740097
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550135332770877448


Lavrov the liar.



Han Patriot said:


> Whatever makes you happy, the point is we are not talking about China. Best outcome? So by sitting behind and sending piecemeal weapons, that's the best outcome? Dude, 20% of Ukraine is under occupation now. Just admit US is afraid of a direct war with Russia. Why can't you just admit it like a man. Lolol


You wish a direct war between US and Russia?
If conventional then ok. Let’s do it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550186682124832768
> View attachment 863991
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukrainians are inching ever closer to Kherson




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550005678911135744

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## The SC

Viet said:


> Lavrov the liar.
> 
> 
> You wish a direct war between US and Russia?
> If conventional then ok. Let’s do it.







The continuity of the Russian nation and the sacrifice of a few million people is worthy for the immortality of the great Russian nation..

Throughout history, Russia sacrificed tens of millions of its sons in the fight against Napoleon, the Ottomans, and the Germanic Nazis, and the result was a sweeping victory, geographical expansion, and the advancement and survival of the Russian nation..

As for what is happening now of imperialist conspiracies, if they are realized, it will lead to the destruction of Russia and its demise from the stage of history..

Global imperialism has long-standing ambitions in dividing Russia into dozens of states and seizing its oil, gas, minerals, wheat, corn and animal feed production areas..

The few must sacrifice their lives in exchange for the survival of the majority in achieving its sovereignty and territorial integrity..

Now the question is to you piece of nothing: How many men and women is NATO ready to lose ..even in a conventional war against Russia..

And I'm neutral in this .. but rational..against your emotional and stupid thoughts..

Educate yourself:

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## sammuel

The SC said:


> Throughout history, Russia sacrificed tens of millions of its sons in the fight against Napoleon, the Ottomans, and the Germanic Nazis,



Bad example , no one is attacking Russia today , no one forces it to loose man. It is Russia that is invading another country.

But you know that , you just choose to ignore that.

~

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Dude, 20% of Ukraine is under occupation now. Just admit US is afraid of a direct war with Russia. Why can't you just admit it like a man. Lolol


After months and only %20? There is no need for US to have a direct war against Russia. But if there is such a need, US airpower can do the job.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Han Patriot said:


> Whatever makes you happy, the point is we are not talking about China. Best outcome? So by sitting behind and sending piecemeal weapons, that's the best outcome? Dude, 20% of Ukraine is under occupation now. Just admit US is afraid of a direct war with Russia. Why can't you just admit it like a man. Lolol


Why don’t you admit that Russia and China are afraid of war with the US?


----------



## Han Patriot

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Why don’t you admit that Russia and China are afraid of war with the US?


So the hero not protecting the victim is because the Rapist is afraid of the hero? Wtf logic is that? Lol

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550424856176611328

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> The continuity of the Russian nation and the sacrifice of a few million people is worthy for the immortality of the great Russian nation..
> 
> Throughout history, Russia sacrificed tens of millions of its sons in the fight against Napoleon, the Ottomans, and the Germanic Nazis, and the result was a sweeping victory, geographical expansion, and the advancement and survival of the Russian nation..
> 
> As for what is happening now of imperialist conspiracies, if they are realized, it will lead to the destruction of Russia and its demise from the stage of history..
> 
> Global imperialism has long-standing ambitions in dividing Russia into dozens of states and seizing its oil, gas, minerals, wheat, corn and animal feed production areas..
> 
> The few must sacrifice their lives in exchange for the survival of the majority in achieving its sovereignty and territorial integrity..
> 
> Now the question is to you piece of nothing: How many men and women is NATO ready to lose ..even in a conventional war against Russia..
> 
> And I'm neutral in this .. but rational..against your emotional and stupid thoughts..
> 
> Educate yourself:


Russia had its adventure in afghanistan. Tying its army there and in the arms race and economic war with Nato eventually devastating its economy.

Now russia tries its luck in Ukraine…
However its losses after a half year are already the same as 10 years afghanistan…

Also you talk about global imperialism as if russia is not imperialistic (agressively expanding and occupying many eastern european nations throughout history)

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## Viet

The SC said:


> The continuity of the Russian nation and the sacrifice of a few million people is worthy for the immortality of the great Russian nation..
> 
> Throughout history, Russia sacrificed tens of millions of its sons in the fight against Napoleon, the Ottomans, and the Germanic Nazis, and the result was a sweeping victory, geographical expansion, and the advancement and survival of the Russian nation..
> 
> As for what is happening now of imperialist conspiracies, if they are realized, it will lead to the destruction of Russia and its demise from the stage of history..
> 
> Global imperialism has long-standing ambitions in dividing Russia into dozens of states and seizing its oil, gas, minerals, wheat, corn and animal feed production areas..
> 
> The few must sacrifice their lives in exchange for the survival of the majority in achieving its sovereignty and territorial integrity..
> 
> Now the question is to you piece of nothing: How many men and women is NATO ready to lose ..even in a conventional war against Russia..
> 
> And I'm neutral in this .. but rational..against your emotional and stupid thoughts..
> 
> Educate yourself:


Gets real. Russia is hijacked by Putin.
He will bring down the country.


----------



## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Let me give you an analogy, US is a guy seeing a lady getting raped by another guy named Russia who managed to penetrate 20% into her pussy. Instead of fighting the assailant, US cheers on for that lady to fight back by giving her stones one at a time,while Russia penetrates deeper. And nobody asks why that hero named America is not fighting. 🤣. And worse of all, a dozen kids came along and cheered on as well. Lolololol.


Ukraine is not asking for US/NATO troops but only weapons, and so far, Russian balls are being cut off to the tune of about 35,000 pairs. But at least you are admitting that Russia is the criminal here. It is at least a good start for a sofa soldier like yourself.

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## MH.Yang

kingQamaR said:


> Why is Han supporting Russia against Ukraine?
> 
> China has not even sent a single soldier or a piece of gun to Ukraine, so what help are you talking about
> 
> You muppet!


We just don't support NATO. Why do you say we support Russia? If we don't support NATO, we support Russia?


----------



## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> What happens to Russia imports?
> Putin stops publishing import figures. Probably too embarrassing. Down 60 percent. Even imports from best friend China down 40 percent.
> Russia will end up like Srilanka where imports collapsing, hospitals running out medicines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sanktionen gegen Russland: Auch Exporte aus China brechen ein
> 
> 
> Offiziell unterstützt China keine Sanktionen gegen Russland und erklärte sich als „strategischer Partner“ Moskaus – die Exporte brechen aber ein.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.merkur.de



Confirm your data. 

In the first five months of 2022, China's exports to Russia reached US $24.559 billion, an increase of 7.2%.






China Exports to Russia - June 2022 Data - 2014-2021 Historical - July Forecast


Exports to Russia in China increased to 5002532.91 USD THO in June from 4324095.38 USD THO in May of 2022. Exports to Russia in China averaged 4107176.65 USD THO from 2014 until 2022, reaching an all time high of 12617700 USD THO in February of 2022 and a record low of 61 USD THO in April of...




tradingeconomics.com


----------



## MH.Yang

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yes, Chinese warships follow US warships which travels through waters where they have every right to be. That is not ”pushing”. That is like a dog barking at a passing car which hardly notices the existence of the dog.
> You have received your answer. Because they think that defeating Russia through arms shipments gives the best possible outcome for them in this conflict.
> China believes producing hot air about alledged violations of their (not really) waters gives the best result for China.



The South China Sea is originally the high seas, and we have not prevented warships from other countries from entering the South China Sea.

If you think this is an insult, you may not know that Chinese warships pass through Gibraltar from the Mediterranean Sea into the English Channel every two years. We have done this for decades, and the European Union and the British do not consider it an insult.










Royal Navy Shadows Chinese Destroyer In English Channel | Joint Forces News


The Royal Navy announced this afternoon that the frigate HMS St Albans is today monitoring the progress of a Chinese destroyer through the English Channel.




www.joint-forces.com













British frigate escorts Chinese warship through English Channel







ukdefencejournal.org.uk







A.P. Richelieu said:


> Why don’t you admit that Russia and China are afraid of war with the US?


Korean War and Vietnam War.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Han Patriot said:


> So the hero not protecting the victim is because the Rapist is afraid of the hero? Wtf logic is that? Lol



The Russians know exactly where US and Western aid are being delivered from in Poland. The reality is Russia is terrified of the US military and so are the Chinese.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550445191227736065

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550445193027002369

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550486337182220288

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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550475245227687937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550475250348879873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550475254945890306

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550475259748311041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550475264269832192

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550503722144468997

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550545042796089345

New weapons package

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## The SC




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550559019277996037

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550542380624904192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550542270608592897


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Han Patriot said:


> So the hero not protecting the victim is because the Rapist is afraid of the hero? Wtf logic is that? Lol


According to *your* logic, Russia and China is afraid of the US.
Did I say that you logic makes any sense?



MH.Yang said:


> The South China Sea is originally the high seas, and we have not prevented warships from other countries from entering the South China Sea.
> 
> If you think this is an insult, you may not know that Chinese warships pass through Gibraltar from the Mediterranean Sea into the English Channel every two years. We have done this for decades, and the European Union and the British do not consider it an insult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Royal Navy Shadows Chinese Destroyer In English Channel | Joint Forces News
> 
> 
> The Royal Navy announced this afternoon that the frigate HMS St Albans is today monitoring the progress of a Chinese destroyer through the English Channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.joint-forces.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British frigate escorts Chinese warship through English Channel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ukdefencejournal.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Korean War and Vietnam War.
> 
> View attachment 864105
> 
> 
> View attachment 864106


That China is afraid to go to War with the US is proven by the fact that China avoided repeating its mistake during the Korean War.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550552642618785794
Despite what Russians claim,Ukraine is still in control of Siversk.












__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550476198932877313


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550535910009470976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550499025081745408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550505757250027520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550506373137432577


----------



## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550552642618785794
> Despite what Russians claim,Ukraine is still in control of Siversk.
> 
> View attachment 864251
> 
> View attachment 864250
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550476198932877313


Just missed that barrack tent by a hair  

Cant they start using himars on troop concentrations soon? The Orcs only learn by force.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550565213556117506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550565635129839617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550565875392159744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550566131865473024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550566568878395393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550566570006650884


----------



## NotSure

I can't stop laughing:


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550461784183693316


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550567104109215744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550567417138581506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550567612265938945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550567995046502401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550568337805025280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550568975515500545

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550569229124075521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550569962045063168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550570412383379457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550571232051044353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550572364940906498

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550573144011833346

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550573834398568455

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550574356018896898

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550574733934170113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550575017716588552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550575473582915585

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## aziqbal

why are Russians struggling now at Siversk?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550213541818425347

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550216903943151617
The reactive division "Korsa" of the DPR army in the Gorlovsky direction unwinds the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. There are things you can look at forever.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550202959216234497

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550392003912994816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550179727163498496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550587839632523271

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## Vergennes

so this is what the "world's second most powerful army" looks like after four months of conflict...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550521644204101637


----------



## aziqbal

historically Russia is very adaptive to ground wars 

they were getting hammered by the drones including TB2 and now Ukraine has almost ceased drone operations 

Russian jamming has rendered them ineffective to the level that 1 drone has 1 minion lifetime 

HIMARS are causing alot of trouble but Russia is working on jamming their GPS systems 

as soon as that happens Russian Steamroller will move forward

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## zectech

If the war continues into 2025 (something to consider), trump plans to purge the pro-EU State Department, purge the pro-EU Pentagon, purge the pro-EU/NATO NSA, purge the Democratic Party leaning FBI.









BOMBSHELL: Trump's Team Already Planning Massive Purge in 2024, Takeover of Pentagon, NSA, FBI, State Dept


In the three years that I have worked at this site, this is the single scariest story that I have seen. Barack Obama once said that he thought Trump would grow into the job and had faith in “the guard rails” were strong. Trump later proved that the guard rails couldn’t contain him. Now, Donald […]




www.politicalflare.com




BOMBSHELL: Trump’s Team Already Planning Massive Purge in 2024, Takeover of Pentagon, NSA, FBI, State Dept​ 
By Jason Miciak
July 22, 2022

In the three years that I have worked at this site, this is the single scariest story that I have seen. Barack Obama once said that he thought Trump would grow into the job and had faith in “the guard rails” were strong. Trump later proved that the guard rails couldn’t contain him. Now, Donald Trump wants to do away with the guard rails altogether. Trump is already planning to purge thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of employees.

*IF someone made Vladimir Putin president (of the USA), this is exactly what Putin would do. According to Axios:*

_Former President Trump’s top allies are preparing to radically *reshape the federal government if he is re-elected, purging potentially thousands of civil servants and filling career posts with loyalists to him* and his “America First” ideology, people involved in the discussions tell Axios. The impact could go well beyond typical conservative targets such as the Environmental Protection Agency and the Internal Revenue Service._

This is called fascism. A federal government based on loyalty to a man and not the nation or Constitution is fascism.

_Trump allies are working on plans that would* potentially strip layers at the Justice Department* — including the FBI, a*nd reaching into national security, intelligence, the State Department and the Pentagon,* sources close to the former president say. The heart of the plan is derived from an executive order known as “Schedule F,” developed and* refined in secret over most of the second half of Trump’s term and launched 13 days before the 2020 election.*_

Is that not a recipe for a fascist takeover? You purge the government of anyone not willing to pledge loyalty to Donald Trump. You take the lawyers out of the Justice Department and agents out of the FBI (people who find crimes and report them), and you make sure that national security and the military answers to a man, not a nation.

This is how one sets up fascism as it is practiced in Russia, and they are preparing already. It is the scariest story I’ve ever reported. Merrick Garland and the FBI better be watching these people very very closely.

Jmiciak@yahoo.com, @JasonMiciak, with Nicole Hickman

The beltway is filled with neo-liberals. They are the voting block that gives the electoral votes of VA to Democrats in presidential elections. Trump is planning to purge the US government in a Putin-esque one party state. To make the cia overtly control the DoD, NSA, FBI, and State Dept. In 2022, these are covertly controlled by the Republican cia, Trump wants these to be overtly controlled by the cia deepstate. This was in the plans in a second term, as was this European War. This European War was to happen concurrently with a China War. A trump loss made the Putin War the war of this term.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502387779749257216

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## MH.Yang

A.P. Richelieu said:


> According to *your* logic, Russia and China is afraid of the US.
> Did I say that you logic makes any sense?
> 
> 
> That China is afraid to go to War with the US is proven by the fact that China avoided repeating its mistake during the Korean War.


I remind you that it was the Americans who dared not cross the 17 degree line in the Vietnam War to avoid repeating the mistakes.

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## MH.Yang

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians know exactly where US and Western aid are being delivered from in Poland. The reality is Russia is terrified of the US military and so are the Chinese.


China has challenged the USA in various fields. The two countries have just ended a trade war. Do you think China is afraid of the USA? 

If you mean the frontal war between the two countries, the Chinese are certainly afraid, but the Americans are not afraid? You should know that this kind of war means nuclear war.


----------



## F-22Raptor

aziqbal said:


> historically Russia is very adaptive to ground wars
> 
> they were getting hammered by the drones including TB2 and now Ukraine has almost ceased drone operations
> 
> Russian jamming has rendered them ineffective to the level that 1 drone has 1 minion lifetime
> 
> HIMARS are causing alot of trouble but Russia is working on jamming their GPS systems
> 
> as soon as that happens Russian Steamroller will move forward



Drones are so ineffective the US is sending nearly 5x the amount of Phoenix Ghosts they sent in April. You don’t send that amount if there ineffective.

It’s impossible to jam HIMARS due to their INS units.


----------



## Vergennes

LMAO at russians and their bots like @Hassan Al-Somal claiming the Ukrainians destroyed their own helicopter on Snake Island. @F-22Raptor 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550589487079636992

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550305693286207492

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550110454785220608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550102359539437568

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550443665847377922


Vergennes said:


> LMAO at russians and their bots like @Hassan Al-Somal claiming the Ukrainians destroyed their own helicopter on Snake Island. @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550589487079636992





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550443665847377922

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550609022562095105


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550613926261493762


----------



## F-22Raptor

aziqbal said:


> why are Russians struggling now at Siversk?



The Russians offensive capability is running out of steam. They don’t have much left. They haven’t made any progress in 2+ weeks.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550573834398568455
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550574356018896898
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550574733934170113
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550575017716588552
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550575473582915585





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550586010395885569


F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians offensive capability is running out of steam. They don’t have much left. They haven’t made any progress in 2+ weeks.



Talk is cheap. 👇



https://twitter.com/jaccocharite/status/1550588279694581761

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550559673530683393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550524608960397313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550512225588224000

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550586010395885569
> 
> 
> Talk is cheap. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/jaccocharite/status/1550588279694581761





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550567325480488960

Russia is running out of steam.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550567104109215744
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550567417138581506
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550567612265938945
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550567995046502401




👇👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550508835265286145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550435099262566400

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## MH.Yang

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians offensive capability is running out of steam. They don’t have much left. They haven’t made any progress in 2+ weeks.



I don't think the Russians will lose momentum until they get Odessa and Kharkov.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550567325480488960
> 
> Russia is running out of steam.




These prisoners were just captured in the Donbass today, and you want to preach "Russians are running out of steam"? At this point, since "muh HIMARS" stories aren't working any more, it seems you guys have concocted a new farce claim that "Russians are running out of steam. " Get over, these lame claims are not making sense. The Russians are seizing territory as we speak now. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550468754961797121

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## F-22Raptor

MH.Yang said:


> I don't think the Russians will lose momentum until they get Odessa and Kharkov.



They’ll never get either city. They barely move a kilometer. 

Meanwhile the Ukrainians are getting stronger and getting a lot more Western weapons. 

The UK just announced this week over 20 M109 and 36 M119 artillery pieces. 

The US another 4 HIMARS, 3,000 anti armor weapons and 580 Phoenix Ghosts drones.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550586189744377858

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550539370733928448


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> These prisoners were just captured in the Donbass today, and you want to preach "Russians are running out of steam"? At this point, since "muh HIMARS" stories aren't working any more, it seems you guys have concocted a new farce claim that "Russians are running out of steam. " Get over, these lame claims are not making sense. The Russians are seizing territory as we speak now.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550468754961797121



The Ukrainians are getting stronger as more NATO weapons enter the fight and as new brigades are formed. 

The Russians are getting weaker and munitions capability “dumber.”

The Russians haven’t made any progress in weeks.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550494125740494848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550638099461541889

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550642258508234753


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> The Ukrainians are getting stronger as more NATO weapons enter the fight and as new brigades are formed.
> 
> The Russians are getting weaker and munitions capability “dumber.”
> 
> The Russians haven’t made any progress in weeks.




OK, OK, let us see if those Western arms can deliver the "victory" that the "Liberal International Order" needs in Ukraine! 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550452423084449792

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## MH.Yang

F-22Raptor said:


> They’ll never get either city. They barely move a kilometer.
> 
> Meanwhile the Ukrainians are getting stronger and getting a lot more Western weapons.
> 
> The UK just announced this week over 20 M109 and 36 M119 artillery pieces.
> 
> The US another 4 HIMARS, 3,000 anti armor weapons and 580 Phoenix Ghosts drones.


The British gave Ukraine M109A1? Or M109A6? 

The number of donations is too small. These figures should be multiplied by 100.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550433368059387904

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550609540957323264

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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Ukraine is not asking for US/NATO troops but only weapons, and so far, Russian balls are being cut off to the tune of about 35,000 pairs. But at least you are admitting that Russia is the criminal here. It is at least a good start for a sofa soldier like yourself.


Ukraine not asking or US don't dare? Man you guys keep on giving excuses after excuses. Russians cut into 75000 pieces? Look at the map! Lol



F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians know exactly where US and Western aid are being delivered from in Poland. The reality is Russia is terrified of the US military and so are the Chinese.


So why isn't US in the war? I am still waiting for an answer. Lolol



A.P. Richelieu said:


> According to *your* logic, Russia and China is afraid of the US.
> Did I say that you logic makes any sense?
> 
> 
> That China is afraid to go to War with the US is proven by the fact that China avoided repeating its mistake during the Korean War.


So by your logic Russia is afraid of US and yet is raping Ukriane? And US is not afraid but yet is only observing the rape. Okkkkkk. Now I know what delusion looks like.

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## patero

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550433368059387904


Is Russia flush with cash though? Net Oil and gas revenues are down because of the strong Ruble and heavy discounting. This has created a hole in the state budget that is only going to get worse, especially as Western Europe switches to alternative energy suppliers.

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550609540957323264


 
And US & Co., sending weapons is shortening the conflict? Who produces these morons.

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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> I don't think the Russians will lose momentum until they get Odessa and Kharkov.


Hmm so with their “momentum” of 0,5km a day, it will take how many days to even get there?
Also it took them 3 months for mariopol. Odessa and kharkiv are a different ballpark. 

Lets first see if they can manage the sloviansk-kramatorsk-bakhmut line….


----------



## Viet

U.S. discussing America-made fighter jets for Ukraine​Reuters
2 minute read





Ukrainian service members unpack Javelin anti-tank missiles, delivered by plane as part of the U.S. military support package for Ukraine, at the Boryspil International Airport outside Kyiv, Ukraine February 10, 2022. REUTERS/Valentyn Ogirenko


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

MH.Yang said:


> I remind you that it was the Americans who dared not cross the 17 degree line in the Vietnam War to avoid repeating the mistakes.


The USAF made thousands of sorties into North Vietnam, but unlike the Korean War, the Chinese Air Force did not show up.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Han Patriot said:


> Ukraine not asking or US don't dare? Man you guys keep on giving excuses after excuses. Russians cut into 75000 pieces? Look at the map! Lol
> 
> 
> So why isn't US in the war? I am still waiting for an answer. Lolol
> 
> 
> So by your logic Russia is afraid of US and yet is raping Ukriane? And US is not afraid but yet is only observing the rape. Okkkkkk. Now I know what delusion looks like.


That is *your* logic.
My logic says that Russia is being reduced to a has been, at the cost of a few percent of the US defense budget.
Russia is whining about the West delivering arms, but knows that making the situation worse when it is neck-deep in horse manure is not the best of ideas.


----------



## MH.Yang

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The USAF made thousands of sorties into North Vietnam, but unlike the Korean War, the Chinese Air Force did not show up.


Yes, China's air force did not participate in the Vietnam War, because the support capacity of the Vietnamese govt was even worse than that of China in 1950/1951. We could not let the air force die in vain.
But China's air defense forces took part in the battle. China has sent a total of 16 anti-aircraft artillery regiments. They shot down 1700+ American planes.

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## zartosht

*western society 30 years ago: *

Were going to have flying cars! Robot maids! the future will be soo awsome

*Western society today:*

culturally: green haired pansexual genderbender lgbtq++++++++ are the cultural standard bearers.

Economically: Radical, illogical, short sided elite eco-fascists in private jets/motorcades have become the ultimate authority: Keeping the lights on has become an absolute huge task now.... with people being told to wash only their crotches/armpits once a week to stick it to putin or something?

Putin is absolutely right, The last thing the western elites think about anymore is improving the lives of their citizens. Thats why the west is rapidly crashing.

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## QWECXZ

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians haven’t made any progress in weeks.


Russia officially and publicly announced that they would halt their advances after the battle of Lysychansk to regroup and push further into Donbas. They have made little progress in the last few days because of that, but Ukraine hasn't made progress either. They will soon continue their operations in Donbas.

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## MH.Yang

zartosht said:


> *western society 30 years ago: *
> 
> Were going to have flying cars! Robot maids! the future will be soo awsome
> 
> *Western society today:*
> 
> culturally: green haired pansexual genderbender lgbtq++++++++ are the cultural standard bearers.
> 
> Economically: Radical, illogical, short sided elite eco-fascists in private jets/motorcades have become the ultimate authority: Keeping the lights on has become an absolute huge task now.... with people being told to wash only their crotches/armpits once a week to stick it to putin or something?
> 
> Putin is absolutely right, The last thing the western elites think about anymore is improving the lives of their citizens. Thats why the west is rapidly crashing.

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## Viet

US massive military buildup in Alaska.
Probably as response to Putin threat: he wants to take back Russia earth.


----------



## TNT

Its funny how these western supporters keep saying russia running out of men, russia running out of ammo, russia running out of steam and every time they r proven wrong. I wonder if they feel ashamed? I doubt it. The western media have brainwashed and stupidified their population and the odd one is silenced.

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## Vergennes

TNT said:


> Its funny how these western supporters keep saying russia running out of men, russia running out of ammo, russia running out of steam and every time they r proven wrong. I wonder if they feel ashamed? I doubt it. The western media have brainwashed and stupidified their population and the odd one is silenced.



That's why Russia's sending grandpas and T62s to the front,lmao. NATO would utterly trash the Russian army.

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## RescueRanger

*Somewhere in Ukraine: *Russian reservist from BARS-4 with a captured (huge and rare) heavily modified DShK machine gun.


----------



## NotSure

F-22Raptor said:


> Oh noz, it’s the grammar police on an Internet forum.
> 
> Kid, I’m in the top 1-2% in wealth for my age bracket.
> 
> Now back on topic


So you are in the top 2% or even in the top 1% (!) wealth for your age bracket and still have to sit here 24/7 in this and other forums as a propaganda spam bot?

Ok, seems legit.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550186682124832768
> View attachment 863991
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukrainians are inching ever closer to Kherson



Ukraine will be able to retake Kherson - but going past Kherson will be difficult due to ther river and limited number of bridges(which Russia will blow up when they get pushed out of Kherson ).


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550586010395885569
> 
> 
> Talk is cheap. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/jaccocharite/status/1550588279694581761


Show me a vid of a s300/400 shooting anything down, I’ll wait. 
But every day you claim they’re shooting down 100% of targets 🥱

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## ZeGerman

TNT said:


> Its funny how these western supporters keep saying russia running out of men, russia running out of ammo, russia running out of steam and every time they r proven wrong. I wonder if they feel ashamed? I doubt it. The western media have brainwashed and stupidified their population and the odd one is silenced.


No thats the russians. The odd one gets 15 years in prison, and this 3 day war (im sorry, special operation) is going JUST like chess master Putin planned. 

See all those cauldrons, collapsing ukranians, odessa falling?


----------



## Vergennes

RoadAmerica said:


> Show me a vid of a s300/400 shooting anything down, I’ll wait.
> But every day you claim they’re shooting down 100% of targets 🥱



Even the so called separatists claim they can't do shit against Himars but somehow the Russians are coming with claims like this even though their arms depots and command centers are being obliterated one by one,lmao.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550845049574932480

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550854107312816129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550816901370204160

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550860618890182656


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550871474390581249

Another huge HIMARS strike


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550870481233911808

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## 925boy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Why don’t you admit that Russia and China are afraid of war with the US?


If US isnt the one thats afraid of war with Russia + China, then why hasnt it entered the Ukraine war already?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550872060322275328


----------



## aziqbal

those HIMSRS are taking out the ammo dumps 

Russia needs to jam them and knock them out as soon as possible 

losing those dumps is devastating 

you are losing thousands of shells and only 1 shell can take out the HIMARS


----------



## F-22Raptor

925boy said:


> If US isnt the one thats afraid of war with Russia + China, then why hasnt it entered the Ukraine war already?



Because the US can destroy the Russian military at minimal cost. 

The question you should be asking is why Russia hasn't attacked the Rzeszow airport in Poland where hundreds, if not thousands of flights with military aid for Ukraine have been pouring in?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550840023112716292

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## K_Bin_W

925boy said:


> If US isnt the one thats afraid of war with Russia + China, then why hasnt it entered the Ukraine war already?


Because it knows its limitations and it knows quite well the outcome. its written on the wall, It can only liberate Kuwait and many other places like it.

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## ZeGerman

aziqbal said:


> those HIMSRS are taking out the ammo dumps
> 
> Russia needs to jam them and knock them out as soon as possible
> 
> losing those dumps is devastating
> 
> you are losing thousands of shells and only 1 shell can take out the HIMARS


Thats ok, according to some here the HIMARS are either:
1: destroyed even before they reach the frontline! Russia pinpoint attacks on transports!
2: hunted down by russian attack helicopters!
3: captured by victorious russian troops and reverse engineered!
4: all missiles are intercepted by SAM



https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/This-is-Fine-300x300.jpg


----------



## Akritas

The bombing of the port of Odessa by the invading Russian forces *proves that Russia is simply making deals and talks to buy time.*


----------



## Viet

Putin orders 85 regions in Russia the establishment of 85 new battalions. One battalion per region.
The pay is not too bad: 3,000 euros per month Putin pays for every soldier who fights in Ukraine. After 30 day training they are thrown into the battle. Their life is short, their fighting value is little, it’s almost suicide missions.






__





Ukraine-Krieg: Freiwillige sollen Moskaus Verluste abmildern - ZDFheute


Russlands Armee leidet an Personalmangel, daher sollen Freiwillige in die Ukraine. Derweil setzt das HIMARS-Raketensystem russischer Logistik zu.




amp.zdf.de

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## Broccoli

Another Russian ammo dump goes boom.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550876948028461058

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## ZeGerman

Can we also put the childish “who is afraid of who” to rest? 

Especially considering all are top powers and direct war would be immensely costly to all, let alone the nuclear risk. 

Looking at experience, tech, size, budgets…however…america is still far ahead. 
Russia is falling further behind with the shitshow in ukraine. 
China is gaining…but still untested.

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## Ali_Baba

How Western Himars forced Russia to negotiate on grain


High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, known as Himars, have been instrumental for Ukraine




www.telegraph.co.uk








> “The agreement to unblock Odesa would have been impossible without Himars,” said Gabrielius Lansbergis, Lithuania’s Foreign Minister. “It's now very clear that the war will end earlier if we arm Ukraine faster.”

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Can we also put the childish “who is afraid of who” to rest?
> 
> Especially considering all are top powers and direct war would be immensely costly to all, let alone the nuclear risk.
> 
> Looking at experience, tech, size, budgets…however…america is still far ahead.
> Russia is falling further behind with the shitshow in ukraine.
> China is gaining…but still untested.


Fighting against US, people laughing. I willing to bet Russia army will lose against Finland. What Russia army doing in Ukraine is mostly terror bombings, massive stupid artillery use.


----------



## Broccoli

Ammo bump boom from diffrent angle. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550866719463424003

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## Hassan Al-Somal

RoadAmerica said:


> Show me a vid of a s300/400 shooting anything down, I’ll wait.
> But every day you claim they’re shooting down 100% of targets 🥱





Vergennes said:


> Even the so called separatists claim they can't do shit against Himars but somehow the Russians are coming with claims like this even though their arms depots and command centers are being obliterated one by one,lmao.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550787146046373891

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550784858548477958

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## Hassan Al-Somal

RoadAmerica said:


> Show me a vid of a s300/400 shooting anything down, I’ll wait.
> But every day you claim they’re shooting down 100% of targets 🥱




You can proceed to* 2:57* of the below video where the reporter of the video clearly stated the Russia's S-400 air defense systems took down the HIMARS that targeted bridges. He is an unbiased observer where he described the activities of each side. But of course, you, just like other propagandists, would run "muh HIMARS" are "scoring" nonexistent "victories". 👇








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550770780480634880

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## Broccoli

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You can proceed to* 2:57* of the below video where the reporter of the video clearly stated the Russia's S-400 air defense systems took down the HIMARS that targeted bridges. He is an unbiased observer where he described the activities of each side. But of course, you, just like other propagandists, would run "muh HIMARS" are "scoring" nonexistent "victories". 👇



Some random dude making claims on youtube isn't evidence, mate. 

How come Ukrainine is blowing up Russian ammo dumps if S-400 clears skies from airplanes and missiles?

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## F-22Raptor

Broccoli said:


> Some random dude making claims on youtube isn't evidence, mate.
> 
> How come Ukrainine is blowing up Russian ammo dumps if S-400 clears skies from airplanes and missiles?



Because the S-400 can't intercept HIMARS, that's why. HIMARS is a dominant capability that Russia has failed to stop.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550787146046373891
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550784858548477958


EU needs to step away from full agreement where everyone has VETO to mass majority rule of 80-90%. 

This way we can act without this russian lackey.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You can proceed to* 2:57* of the below video where the reporter of the video clearly stated the Russia's S-400 air defense systems took down the HIMARS that targeted bridges. He is an unbiased observer where he described the activities of each side. But of course, you, just like other propagandists, would run "muh HIMARS" are "scoring" nonexistent "victories". 👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550770780480634880





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550890123205779458
You really are desperate

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550890123205779458
> You really are desperate


“Who is laughing now?!”

We are, every time another russian ammo dump goes *boom*.

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> Because the US can destroy the Russian military at minimal cost.


But instead it allows Russian artillery mow down 500-800 Ukrainian soldiers daily? This logic doesnt add up to the truth on the ground in East Ukraine especially.


F-22Raptor said:


> The question you should be asking is why Russia hasn't attacked the Rzeszow airport in Poland where hundreds, if not thousands of flights with military aid for Ukraine have been pouring in?


WEll that would be a cleaer violatioon of international law, and Poland is part of NATO, so that wold easily trigger NATO getting involved in a war with Russia that has no good reason to happen, do you understand what dumb suggestion this is? When did US stop using good logic? You cant seem to follow good logic that Russia follows.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550541337862492160

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550874780978511874


----------



## oberschlesier

The EU gas reserves for Winter are growing and are right now at 65.5%:



Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550879358436491264

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550914005186781184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550862461544316931
Yes HIMARS are having a huge effect

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## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> If US isnt the one thats afraid of war with Russia + China, then why hasnt it entered the Ukraine war already?



Some people don't sit around and watch mass murder and take action. All those who defend freedom in Ukraine have my utmost respect.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550916773410660353


----------



## gambit

925boy said:


> But instead it allows Russian artillery mow down 500-800 Ukrainian soldiers daily? This logic doesnt add up to the truth on the ground in East Ukraine especially.


Here is the harsh reality that everyone, including Ukraine, acknowledged...

That Russia is sort of 'allowed' to act this way is because of the nuclear deterrence. This actually does not speak well for the Russian military in general, that there is no gradations of capabilities and performance, either shiddy or nuclear. So yes, the US military *WOULD* have cut down the Russian military in short order.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550909638140379136

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## gambit

925boy said:


> WEll that would be a cleaer violatioon of international law, and Poland is part of NATO, so that wold easily trigger NATO getting involved in a war with Russia that has no good reason to happen, do you understand what dumb suggestion this is? When did US stop using good logic? You cant seem to follow good logic that Russia follows.


Russia invasion of Ukraine was a clear violation of international law, and non-membership of any organization does not diminish sovereignty rights, so Russia should have attacked Poland.

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## oberschlesier

gambit said:


> Russia invasion of Ukraine was a clear violation of international law, and non-membership of any organization does not diminish sovereignty rights, so Russia should have attacked Poland.


Russia just does not have the technical capabilities to open a second front againts a more powerful enemy. If they could take Kiev in March, this scenario would be realistic, now it`s science fiction.

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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You can proceed to* 2:57* of the below video where the reporter of the video clearly stated the Russia's S-400 air defense systems took down the HIMARS that targeted bridges. He is an unbiased observer where he described the activities of each side. But of course, you, just like other propagandists, would run "muh HIMARS" are "scoring" nonexistent "victories". 👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550770780480634880


They took down all the HiMARS munition sent..that is what is understood..

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## dBSPL

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban:

“The sanctions have not shaken Russia and Europe has already lost four governments.
It is quite possible that events in Ukraine will put an end to Western domination and open the door to a multipolar world order."

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## mulj

dBSPL said:


> Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban:
> 
> “The sanctions have not shaken Russia and Europe has already lost four governments.
> It is quite possible that events in Ukraine will put an end to Western domination and open the door to a multipolar world order."


Very odius persona but he is not stupid.

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## The SC




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## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban:
> 
> “The sanctions have not shaken Russia and Europe has already lost four governments.
> It is quite possible that events in Ukraine will put an end to Western domination and open the door to a multipolar world order."



Orban is a well known Russian stooge. Russia is going nowhere. They don’t have the tech or innovative capacity to compete with the US.

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## Type59

2 Americans dead in eastern Ukraine: Officials


Two Americans thought to have been fighting for Ukraine have died in the eastern reach of the country, according to officials.




abcnews.go.com





I remember US citizens on here saying happy for UKR and RUS people to die in this conflict. I suspect they won't be bothered about own citizens getting killed. Hey you guys don't care about kids getting shot up😔

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## Viet

dBSPL said:


> Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban:
> 
> “The sanctions have not shaken Russia and Europe has already lost four governments.
> It is quite possible that events in Ukraine will put an end to Western domination and open the door to a multipolar world order."


Tesla: brings new EV model with autonomous driving
Russia: brings a new flamethrower with the gas afterburner
Putin: this flamethrower will end world domination by the west.
Putin cheerleaders: the new world order has arrived.

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> Orban is a well known Russian stooge. Russia is going nowhere. They don’t have the tech or innovative capacity to compete with the US.


But China has. Or about to have


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550928068444913671

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## aziqbal

Akritas said:


> The bombing of the port of Odessa by the invading Russian forces *proves that Russia is simply making deals and talks to buy time.*



I guess you also support Israel ?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550980469185019916

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## aziqbal

there was a old saying in the early parts of the Pacific War between Imperial Japan and the Americans 

the day may belong to the Americans but the night belongs to the Japanese coining the nickname the Tokyo Express 

same goes here 

Summer may belong to the Ukrainians and NATO but the Winter belongs to the Russians 

Russian people and their equipment is built and designed for winter fighting, and historically Russia always comes back during the Winter 

once the ground is frozen Russian gains will be unparalleled they will march forward like no tomorrow

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## oberschlesier

aziqbal said:


> Summer may belong to the Ukrainians and NATO but the Winter belongs to the Russians
> 
> Russian people and their equipment is built and designed for winter fighting, and historically Russia always comes back during the Winter


Yeah, there not like -20 regulary in Poland ( NATO Country ), I find it sometimes very refreshing. I`m not talking here about Skandinavia, which is even colder in Winter and this is an another story. Cold vs. NATO. Nope.


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## MH.Yang

aziqbal said:


> there was a old saying in the early parts of the Pacific War between Imperial Japan and the Americans
> 
> the day may belong to the Americans but the night belongs to the Japanese coining the nickname the Tokyo Express
> 
> same goes here
> 
> Summer may belong to the Ukrainians and NATO but the Winter belongs to the Russians
> 
> Russian people and their equipment is built and designed for winter fighting, and historically Russia always comes back during the Winter
> 
> once the ground is frozen Russian gains will be unparalleled they will march forward like no tomorrow





oberschlesier said:


> Yeah, there not like -20 regulary in Poland ( NATO Country ), I find it sometimes very refreshing. I`m not talking here about Skandinavia, which is even colder in Winter and this is an another story. Cold vs. NATO. Nope.


Please, this is not WW2. Both Ukrainians and Russians are Slavic. And other nations are not afraid of cold. Hitler and Napoleon actually faced the problem of supplies.


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## MH.Yang

F-22Raptor said:


> Orban is a well known Russian stooge. Russia is going nowhere. They don’t have the tech or innovative capacity to compete with the US.


He is not a puppet of the USA ≠ He is a puppet of Russia


BTW:
Which one do you think is more likely? 
1. The European Parliament is unable to subdue an anti American member state. 
2. The European Parliament deliberately retains an anti American member state.


----------



## Paul2

aziqbal said:


> there was a old saying in the early parts of the Pacific War between Imperial Japan and the Americans
> 
> the day may belong to the Americans but the night belongs to the Japanese coining the nickname the Tokyo Express
> 
> same goes here
> 
> Summer may belong to the Ukrainians and NATO but the Winter belongs to the Russians
> 
> Russian people and their equipment is built and designed for winter fighting, and historically Russia always comes back during the Winter
> 
> once the ground is frozen Russian gains will be unparalleled they will march forward like no tomorrow



No... tanks get a mobility boost in winter, but heavy wheeled vehicles get problems with tires: cracks, ripped beadlocks, etc. Rail also suffers due to need to clean tracks, and switchgear suffering.

Also, snow hides mines



aziqbal said:


> those HIMSRS are taking out the ammo dumps
> 
> Russia needs to jam them and knock them out as soon as possible
> 
> losing those dumps is devastating
> 
> you are losing thousands of shells and only 1 shell can take out the HIMARS



Only 203mm rap can reach 80km on Russian side, and you can't land a shell without guidance from such distance without spotters.

SS-21 is so inaccurate, they can launch 4 of them per single target, and in half of cases it would not get even a shrapnell hit. 300mm rockets artillery is the only genuine threat, and this is the reason Ukrainians are ready to risk SOF to take them down.

Very ironic, Russians have otherwise adequate MRBMs, and SRBMs, but no new TBMs since the fall of the Soviet union.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550969839887548423

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550969848850776067

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550952142776635393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550966334267465728

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## SLY

Russia and Ukraine sign grain deal to avert global food crisis​Two sides agree ‘de facto ceasefire’ to allow cargo ships to collect grain from Ukrainian ports








https://www.ft.com/content/126de7b0-cf7a-4703-9429-6c63cb162b02








Turkiye helped Russia and Ukraine sign a deal to export grain through sea ports that's a very smart move by Erdogan and Putin they know America is trying to create global food shortage and crisis for the next phase of the Pandemic that they would start pushing this coming winter



Right after the deal American mercenaries hit the same Port with the Missile and are now blaming it on the Russia you will notice the pattern all the news sources have the same headline "Russia attacks Ukrainian port" why would Russia attack when they just signed a deal in earlier hours

https://www.pressherald.com/2022/07/23/russia-hits-ukraines-black-sea-port-despite-grain-deals/

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## MH.Yang

SLY said:


> Russia and Ukraine sign grain deal to avert global food crisis​Two sides agree ‘de facto ceasefire’ to allow cargo ships to collect grain from Ukrainian ports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/126de7b0-cf7a-4703-9429-6c63cb162b02
> 
> Turkiye helped Russia and Ukraine sign a deal to export grain through sea ports that's a very smart move by Erdogan and Putin they know America is trying to create global food shortage and crisis for the next phase of the Pandemic that they would start pushing this coming winter
> 
> 
> 
> Right after the deal American mercenaries hit the same Port with the Missile and are now blaming it on the Russia you will notice the pattern all the news sources have the same headline "Russia attacks Ukrainian port" why would Russia attack when they just signed a deal in earlier hours
> 
> https://www.pressherald.com/2022/07/23/russia-hits-ukraines-black-sea-port-despite-grain-deals/


Thank you turkey. 

Europe and other countries owe Turkey a favor.

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## dBSPL

MH.Yang said:


> Thank you turkey.
> 
> Europe and other countries owe Turkey a favor.


Turkiye's greatest stupity is to think that doing good to the europe elites will soften their hearths. Turkiye should turn its face to the east.

Even maintaining a readmission agreement with EU is foolish in itself.

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## MH.Yang

dBSPL said:


> Turkiye's greatest stupity is to think that doing good to the europe elites will soften their hearths. Turkiye should turn its face to the east.
> 
> Even maintaining a readmission agreement with EU is foolish in itself.


I think Turkey is at the junction of Europe and Asia, and it should embrace Europe and Asia at the same time.

Turkey should become a bridge between Europe and Asia, not a wall. Turkey should try to safeguard the interests of Europe and Asia at the same time.

*However, Turkey should distinguish between European interests and American interests, which are not completely consistent. *

When Turkey really embraces Europe, not the USA, the EU will open their door.

BTW: It should be Britain that connects the EU and the USA, not Turkey. Turkey should connect the EU with Asia and Russia.

On the whole, I think Erdogan's foreign policy is very correct.
Embrace Germany, the core of the EU, keep a distance from the USA without completely angering the USA, improve relations with China and Russia, shift Israel's first goal to Iran in the Middle East (in fact, Turkey is more capable of threatening Israel than Iran), and compete for the voice of the Islamic world and Central Asia.
Erdogan is an excellent strategist that we respect and admire. If he can be in power for a long time, he will certainly lead Turkey to become a first-class power.

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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> Thank you turkey.
> 
> Europe and other countries owe Turkey a favor.


Were happy but europe has been pushing for this for a while and also adjusted sanctions to make this possible.

And not primarily for europe which has enough food, but to mostly avoid a food shortage in ME/Africa



MH.Yang said:


> I think Turkey is at the junction of Europe and Asia, and it should embrace Europe and Asia at the same time.
> 
> Turkey should become a bridge between Europe and Asia, not a wall. Turkey should try to safeguard the interests of Europe and Asia at the same time.
> 
> *However, Turkey should distinguish between European interests and American interests, which are not completely consistent. *
> 
> When Turkey really embraces Europe, not the USA, the EU will open their door.
> 
> BTW: It should be Britain that connects the EU and the USA, not Turkey. Turkey should connect the EU with Asia and Russia.
> 
> On the whole, I think Erdogan's foreign policy is very correct.
> Embrace Germany, the core of the EU, keep a distance from the USA without completely angering the USA, improve relations with China and Russia, shift Israel's first goal to Iran in the Middle East (in fact, Turkey is more capable of threatening Israel than Iran), and compete for the voice of the Islamic world and Central Asia.
> Erdogan is an excellent strategist that we respect and admire. If he can be in power for a long time, he will certainly lead Turkey to become a first-class power.


Erdogans power grabs, islamism, constant insults and blame towards europe has caused that relationship serious damage.

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## Han Patriot

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is *your* logic.
> My logic says that Russia is being reduced to a has been, at the cost of a few percent of the US defense budget.
> Russia is whining about the West delivering arms, but knows that making the situation worse when it is neck-deep in horse manure is not the best of ideas.


What are weapons used for if not war? What are soldiers good for if not killing? Russia will be weakened but then what? Their resources are bountiful and coffers full. They will just build new weapons. Ukraine? The aim. Had always been preventing Russia from gobbling Ukraine, now Ukraine is getting gobbled up, and what are you doing? Giving moral support? Sending 12 artilleries? That's a joke.!



dBSPL said:


> But China has. Or about to have


Exactly, that's why Biden is worried. We just accomplished 7nm recently.


----------



## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> Were happy but europe has been pushing for this for a while and also adjusted sanctions to make this possible.
> 
> And not primarily for europe which has enough food, but to mostly avoid a food shortage in ME/Africa
> 
> 
> Erdogans power grabs, islamism, constant insults and blame towards europe has caused that relationship serious damage.


Without turkey and Erdogan, the EU has been flooded with refugees. 

But you are not grateful to Turkey, which has hosted a large number of refugees for the EU, but to the USA, which has created a large number of refugees for the EU. 

Moreover, European banks also sold Turkish Lira, creating economic problems in Turkey. It is the EU that owes Turkey, not Turkey that owes the EU.

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## Viet

SLY said:


> Russia and Ukraine sign grain deal to avert global food crisis​Two sides agree ‘de facto ceasefire’ to allow cargo ships to collect grain from Ukrainian ports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/126de7b0-cf7a-4703-9429-6c63cb162b02
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkiye helped Russia and Ukraine sign a deal to export grain through sea ports that's a very smart move by Erdogan and Putin they know America is trying to create global food shortage and crisis for the next phase of the Pandemic that they would start pushing this coming winter
> 
> 
> 
> Right after the deal American mercenaries hit the same Port with the Missile and are now blaming it on the Russia you will notice the pattern all the news sources have the same headline "Russia attacks Ukrainian port" why would Russia attack when they just signed a deal in earlier hours
> 
> https://www.pressherald.com/2022/07/23/russia-hits-ukraines-black-sea-port-despite-grain-deals/


Russians bombed Odessa, hardly the ink was dried. Putin is exposed as liar. He is not interested that Ukraine can resume export of grains. Why he signed in the first place? Remarkably he sent Shoigu.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> I think Turkey is at the junction of Europe and Asia, and it should embrace Europe and Asia at the same time.
> 
> Turkey should become a bridge between Europe and Asia, not a wall. Turkey should try to safeguard the interests of Europe and Asia at the same time.
> 
> *However, Turkey should distinguish between European interests and American interests, which are not completely consistent. *
> 
> When Turkey really embraces Europe, not the USA, the EU will open their door.
> 
> BTW: It should be Britain that connects the EU and the USA, not Turkey. Turkey should connect the EU with Asia and Russia.
> 
> On the whole, I think Erdogan's foreign policy is very correct.
> Embrace Germany, the core of the EU, keep a distance from the USA without completely angering the USA, improve relations with China and Russia, shift Israel's first goal to Iran in the Middle East (in fact, Turkey is more capable of threatening Israel than Iran), and compete for the voice of the Islamic world and Central Asia.
> Erdogan is an excellent strategist that we respect and admire. If he can be in power for a long time, he will certainly lead Turkey to become a first-class power.


Erdogan is driven by personal ergo. A mix of Islamism and hubris. He is much like Putin he treats Turkey like a private property. His politics is a disaster. Without his pingpong craziness Turkey would be in the EU, having F35, high income country. Politics should be rational. It must be driven by balance of interests. Politics must be led by smart people not stupid lunatics. You cheer him because he destroys Turkey.

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Erdogan is driven by personal ergo. A mix of Islamism and hubris. He is much like Putin he treats Turkey like a private property. His politics is a disaster. Without his pingpong craziness Turkey would be in the EU, having F35, high income country. Politics should be rational. It must be driven by balance of interests. Politics must be led by smart people not stupid lunatics. You cheer him because he destroys Turkey.


No, Erdogan and Turkey are kind to the EU. But the EU is hostile to Turkey. You don't want Turkey to become a bridge. You want Turkey to become an economic colony.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> No, Erdogan and Turkey are kind to the EU. But the EU is hostile to Turkey. You don't want Turkey to become a bridge. You want Turkey to become an economic colony.


Economic colony? For what? Turkey is not Iran, has no oil, gas, natural resources, zero. Turkey is not China that EU relies on for manufacturing. Turkey is not a big consumer market, either. So making Turkey to colony making no sense at all. For most Europeans Turkey is a nice holiday destination. Turkey most important asset is her strategic location, nothing more. Hostile to Turkey? Yes because it’s Erdogan Islamism. Without him Turkey would be in the EU years ago.

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Economic colony? For what? Turkey is not Iran, has no oil, gas, natural resources, zero. Turkey is not China that EU relies on for manufacturing. Turkey is not a big consumer market, either. So making Turkey to colony making no sense at all. Turkey important asset is her strategic location, nothing more. Hostile to Turkey? Yes because it’s Erdogan Islamism. One man can destroy a nation.


Turkey's GDP ranks among the top 20 in the world. It is a big market. Moreover, Turkey is rich in minerals.

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## zhxy

Viet said:


> Economic colony? For what? Turkey is not Iran, has no oil, gas, natural resources, zero. Turkey is not China that EU relies on for manufacturing. Turkey is not a big consumer market, either. So making Turkey to colony making no sense at all. For most Europeans Turkey is a nice holiday destination. Turkey most important asset is her strategic location, nothing more. Hostile to Turkey? Yes because it’s Erdogan Islamism. Without him Turkey would be in the EU years ago.



Turkey holds approximately* 72% of total boron deposits of the world with 803 million tonnes*

Most recently, Huge rare earth reserve discovered in Turkey

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Turkey's GDP ranks among the top 20 in the world. It is a big market. Moreover, Turkey is rich in minerals.


Turkey lives on borrowed money. Doppel deficits in trade and current account. High inflation, lira value almost zero to dollar. Turkey credit rating laughable for a high gdp country. That’s not sustainable. Erdogan refuses Sweden, Finland the entry to the Nato. You can’t expect nice words from the West. Turkey driving Turkey itself faster in ruin. Don’t blame other.

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## A.P. Richelieu

925boy said:


> If US isnt the one thats afraid of war with Russia + China, then why hasnt it entered the Ukraine war already?


Asked and answered already.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Han Patriot said:


> What are weapons used for if not war? What are soldiers good for if not killing? Russia will be weakened but then what? Their resources are bountiful and coffers full. They will just build new weapons. Ukraine? The aim. Had always been preventing Russia from gobbling Ukraine, now Ukraine is getting gobbled up, and what are you doing? Giving moral support? Sending 12 artilleries? That's a joke.!
> 
> 
> Exactly, that's why Biden is worried. We just accomplished 7nm recently.


Russias ”gobbling up” has resulted in its choking right now.



MH.Yang said:


> No, Erdogan and Turkey are kind to the EU. But the EU is hostile to Turkey. You don't want Turkey to become a bridge. You want Turkey to become an economic colony.


I guess calling other leaders ”Nazi” is considered good manners in China.


----------



## RescueRanger

Sooner or later they are going to start running out of ammo, when that time comes:

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## MH.Yang

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russias ”gobbling up” has resulted in its choking right now.
> 
> 
> I guess calling other leaders ”Nazi” is considered good manners in China.


No, in China, "Nazi" is a very serious accusation.


----------



## Bengal71

MH.Yang said:


> I think Turkey is at the junction of Europe and Asia, and it should embrace Europe and Asia at the same time.
> 
> Turkey should become a bridge between Europe and Asia, not a wall. Turkey should try to safeguard the interests of Europe and Asia at the same time.
> 
> *However, Turkey should distinguish between European interests and American interests, which are not completely consistent. *
> 
> When Turkey really embraces Europe, not the USA, the EU will open their door.
> 
> BTW: It should be Britain that connects the EU and the USA, not Turkey. Turkey should connect the EU with Asia and Russia.
> 
> *On the whole, I think Erdogan's foreign policy is very correct.*
> Embrace Germany, the core of the EU, keep a distance from the USA without completely angering the USA, improve relations with China and Russia, shift Israel's first goal to Iran in the Middle East (in fact, Turkey is more capable of threatening Israel than Iran), and compete for the voice of the Islamic world and Central Asia.
> *Erdogan is an excellent strategist that we respect and admire. *If he can be in power for a long time, he will certainly lead Turkey to become a first-class power.



I totally agree.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550996216384724992


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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> Without turkey and Erdogan, the EU has been flooded with refugees.


We pay billions to turkey.
Turkey has at times used dirty refugee politics (dumping them in no mans land between turkey-greece) .
Breaching territorial waters cyprus and greece. 

Why do we need to “thank” turkey for that? 
Its not like we cannot build a wall….refugees should be cared for in the region anyway. 


MH.Yang said:


> But you are not grateful to Turkey, which has hosted a large number of refugees for the EU, but to the USA, which has created a large number of refugees for the EU.


Most syrian refugees are thanks to assad and russia….


MH.Yang said:


> Moreover, European banks also sold Turkish Lira, creating economic problems in Turkey. It is the EU that owes Turkey, not Turkey that owes the EU.


We dont owe turkey anything. They have recently acted as everything but an ally.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The 'game changer' M777 destroyed in Seversk. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550883978114105346
The HIMARS are the "game changer" now after this game changer. The M777s were the game changer after the Switchblade Drones were game changer before. And the Switchblade Drones were the game changer before the Javelins and NLAWs were the game changers before that. The goal post of "game-changing" story has been shifting. LMAO

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551140832236937216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550870275423608848

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Turkey lives on borrowed money. Doppel deficits in trade and current account. High inflation, lira value almost zero to dollar. Turkey credit rating laughable for a high gdp country. That’s not sustainable. Erdogan refuses Sweden, Finland the entry to the Nato. You can’t expect nice words from the West. Turkey driving Turkey itself faster in ruin. Don’t blame other.



Mansur Yavas is almost certain to win next years if poll dynamics remain stable.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551134660620685319

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550876744705515523

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## Paul2

Winter may, or may not help Russia in Donbus.

East Ukraine is a land of many small towns, with much more vegetation, and small hills than flat south.

Russia started with huge artillery, and armour advantage, but small troop numbers for such amount of hardware.

Ukraine was the opposite, threw infantry attacks on everything, and stopped Russian progress in Donbus by forcing bloody fights along the Siverskyi river, forests, and hills.

Russia will be gaining mostly troops now, and losing hardware, while Ukraine gaining western hardware, and munitions.

A very big difference in a winter war is that troops in the open are extremely vulnerable, let alone now with thermal vision. No tree cover, and trenches cannot be manned 24*7, and no new trenches can be dug without heavy equipment, once the soil freezes. Frozen soil also makes artillery shells way more lethal, as they don't burry in the ground before detonating.

They either retreat to heated FOBs, or seek ad-hoc barracks in civilian buildings, which will be of course hit by precision weaponry.

If Ukraine can keep Russian logistics defunct, Russian infantry losses are bound to spike as Russians will be retreating across a barren terrain without a place to hide.

Ukraine can push to its original defense lines in Donbus, which have heavy fortification, and infrastructure. Russia can retreat to original DPR/LPR lines, but facilities there will have no way to house so many soldiers, let alone when they will suffer GMLRS bombardment taking out barracks.


----------



## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> So the hero not protecting the victim is because the Rapist is afraid of the hero? Wtf logic is that? Lol


At least we are helping the victim, whereas China is cheering on the Russian rapist and even helping in the crime.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551140832236937216
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550870275423608848



What a bunch of liars,they claimed they had nothing to do with the attack then aknowledge the attack and turn civilian infrastructure into a "military infrastructure".


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The 'game changer' M777 destroyed in Seversk. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550883978114105346
> The HIMARS are the "game changer" now after this game changer. The M777s were the game changer after the Switchblade Drones were game changer before. And the Switchblade Drones were the game changer before the Javelins and NLAWs were the game changers before that. The goal post of "game-changing" story has been shifting. LMAO




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551126952555192321
That’s an old loss from two months ago


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The 'game changer' M777 destroyed in Seversk. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550883978114105346
> The HIMARS are the "game changer" now after this game changer. The M777s were the game changer after the Switchblade Drones were game changer before. And the Switchblade Drones were the game changer before the Javelins and NLAWs were the game changers before that. The goal post of "game-changing" story has been shifting. LMAO



Considering the grass on the ground it is an old loss. Attrition is part of a war and of course they are a game changer,they allowed the destruction of a huge number of Russian military equipments,they have greater range and precision than what Ukraine had. Unlike the Russians who need to flatten an area with poor accuracy to destroy one equipment,the M777 only needs one shell to destroy a Russian military equipment.


----------



## kingQamaR

Vergennes said:


> Considering the grass on the ground it is an old loss. Attrition is part of a war and of course they are a game changer,they allowed the destruction of a huge number of Russian military equipments,they have greater range and precision than what Ukraine had. Unlike the Russians who need to flatten an area with poor accuracy to destroy one equipment,the M777 only needs one shell to destroy a Russian military equipment.



Russians running out of their best weapons, sadly there's a ton of old soviet stuff still in store. It won't be long before they're bombarding Ukranian villages with WWII designed towed artillery guns

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551169061832331264


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549073979800961027

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549073979800961027


Lada is scrap. Putin pays 5 million rubbles about 80,000 euros. For the money their families can have BMW i4M. Or Audi e series. PS: the battery comes from Samsung for chinese readers of this thread).


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551133889938296832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551154796865982466

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549073979800961027




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550518930417913856


----------



## Akritas

aziqbal said:


> I guess you also support Israel ?


My thesis is the supporting the territorial integrity of states and the rights stemming from the United Nations charter.
More further, It was not permissible in the 21st century, for cities to be destroyed and civilians slaughtered in the name of achieving military targets, nor to have a return to the 20th and 19th centuries where cities were devastated by bombing, civilians were murdered by regular troops.
Am I clear?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> No, Erdogan and Turkey are kind to the EU. But the EU is hostile to Turkey. You don't want Turkey to become a bridge. You want Turkey to become an economic colony.


Such a lie.

Tell me, how would china act to a “friend” that:

Invades a chinese island to annex part of it
Claims chinese national waters and ships naval vessels there
Blackmails china to pay billions more or else flood it with refugees…
Claims chinese are “nazi”.
Says chinese like to see blood of muslim children.
Asks the uyghurs to have 5 children each to form larger and larger part of chinese population.
Says these uyghurs are turkish soldiers…and their mosques are turkish barracks
Sees uyghurs as “forever turks” and have them go on turkish military training. 
Control their thinking with turkish imams. 

Hmmm?


----------



## Akritas

ZeGerman said:


> Such a lie.
> 
> Tell me, how would china act to a “friend” that:
> 
> Invades a chinese island to annex part of it
> Claims chinese national waters and ships naval vessels there
> Blackmails china to pay billions more or else flood it with refugees…
> Claims chinese are “nazi”.
> Says chinese like to see blood of muslim children.
> Asks the uyghurs to have 5 children each to form larger and larger part of chinese population.
> Says these uyghurs are turkish soldiers…and their mosques are turkish barracks
> Sees uyghurs as “forever turks” and have them go on turkish military training.
> Control their thinking with turkish imams.
> 
> Hmmm?


What you describe is already happening in Cyprus and Greece from Turkey.

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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> At least we are helping the victim, whereas China is cheering on the Russian rapist and even helping in the crime.


You are helping by cheering for the victim, we are helping by giving them condoms. Lol



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russias ”gobbling up” has resulted in its choking right now.
> 
> 
> I guess calling other leaders ”Nazi” is considered good manners in China.


Choking? It hurts because the first peentration is always tight, after a while it self lubricates.


----------



## MH.Yang

Did the Germans send a batch of Leopard 1 to the poles? 
The poles said that the tanks given by the Germans were worse than the T72.



Poland accuses Germany of reneging on promise to provide tanks to replace those given to Ukraine​




__





Loading…






notesfrompoland.com

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## Vergennes

@F-22Raptor 

Probably the first visually confirmed loss of S300 of the Russian army. The kamaz truck indeed suggests it's Russian. Reported in the Kherson region.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551201289111048193


Vergennes said:


> @F-22Raptor
> 
> Probably the first visually confirmed loss of S300 of the Russian army. The kamaz truck indeed suggests it's Russian. Reported in the Kherson region.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551201289111048193




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551198491145371654
Himars send their regards.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550930308530331648

Russian losses now officially over 4,800


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551187295436509185
HIMARS strike 70km behind the front line


----------



## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Did the Germans send a batch of Leopard 1 to the poles?
> The poles said that the tanks given by the Germans were worse than the T72.
> 
> 
> 
> Poland accuses Germany of reneging on promise to provide tanks to replace those given to Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> notesfrompoland.com


No Germany wants to deliver Leopard 2, but can’t. Germany only has 200 tanks, if we handle over 200 tanks to Polen then we are down to underwear. the dumbest women in history: Angela Merkel. She stripped down the army, tanks can’t roll, plane can’t fly. During the cold war in the 1980 Germany had 5,000 tanks, participated against 20,000 Soviet tanks.
Highnoon Germany must rearm.


----------



## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> No Germany wants to deliver Leopard 2, but can’t. Germany only has 200 tanks, if we handle over 200 tanks to Polen then we are down to underwear. the dumbest women in history: Angela Merkel. She stripped down the army, tanks can’t roll, plane can’t fly. During the cold war in the 1980 Germany had 5,000 tanks, participated against 20,000 Soviet tanks.
> Highnoon Germany must rearm.
> 
> View attachment 864889



And the person responsible for the recent performance of the German armed forces mess is ... Her Excellency was Then German defence minister Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission now lol

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551202132870795264


----------



## ZeGerman

ZeGerman said:


> Such a lie.
> 
> Tell me, how would china act to a “friend” that:
> 
> Invades a chinese island to annex part of it
> Claims chinese national waters and ships naval vessels there
> Blackmails china to pay billions more or else flood it with refugees…
> Claims chinese are “nazi”.
> Says chinese like to see blood of muslim children.
> Asks the uyghurs to have 5 children each to form larger and larger part of chinese population.
> Says these uyghurs are turkish soldiers…and their mosques are turkish barracks
> Sees uyghurs as “forever turks” and have them go on turkish military training.
> Control their thinking with turkish imams.
> 
> Hmmm?


Let me answer for you and spare everyone further ccp propaganda….
This would be unacceptable to China. All those turks would get a one way ticket to a re-education camp. Many never to return.

Erdogan “kind to europe” are you f*cking kidding me. 
We were actively aiding him with patriot missiles for defense….and he calls us nazis and enemies of islam and want millions of our integrated turks to act as a fifth column to eventually annex part of our lands.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551126952555192321
> That’s an old loss from two months ago




Show us the old photos that you alluded to if it was a couple of months ago. We are just not gonna take the words of guy somewhere in the Internet just making a mere claim.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Such a lie.
> 
> Tell me, how would china act to a “friend” that:
> 
> Invades a chinese island to annex part of it
> Claims chinese national waters and ships naval vessels there
> Blackmails china to pay billions more or else flood it with refugees…
> Claims chinese are “nazi”.
> Says chinese like to see blood of muslim children.
> Asks the uyghurs to have 5 children each to form larger and larger part of chinese population.
> Says these uyghurs are turkish soldiers…and their mosques are turkish barracks
> Sees uyghurs as “forever turks” and have them go on turkish military training.
> Control their thinking with turkish imams.
> 
> Hmmm?




What I read is the tantrums of a Muslim, especially Turkiye, hater. No one makes these claims. It is only in your illusions and insecurity towards Turkiye. 👆



Vergennes said:


> What a bunch of liars,they claimed they had nothing to do with the attack then aknowledge the attack and turn civilian infrastructure into a "military infrastructure".





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551147346381225984

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551199692582699009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551199695992659969



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551169061832331264





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551184285243252738

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551159842383052803


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551202132870795264




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551154897759965184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551147869549350913

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551226863560888322
lmao

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What I read is the tantrums of a Muslim, especially Turkiye, hater. No one makes these claims. It is only in your illusions and insecurity towards Turkiye. 👆


I can get sources for everything of the above. Just a few for you:








The Dutch are Nazi remnants - Erdogan - BBC News


Turkey's president brands the Dutch government "Nazi remnants" as a diplomatic row escalates.




www.bbc.com













Three children not enough, have five: Erdoğan to Turks in EU - Türkiye News


President Erdoğan calls on Turks in Europe to procreate more because ‘they are the future of Europe’



www.hurriyetdailynews.com













Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey’s president: Americans ‘like seeing our children die’


Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in a widely publicized address in Istanbul that the West, including America, enjoys watching Muslim children die.




m.washingtontimes.com





Yes how “gratefull” we should be for the “kind and generous” erdogan..our “friend and ally”
So Sell your lies somewhere else…
Erdogan set EU-Turkish relations back many decades. Fact.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550956796742979584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550953704249065475

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## Ali_Baba

Russian Solder to Mother .... "Mother, our asses are being kicked everywhere ...."

( Yup - about sums it all up )


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551226863560888322
> lmao





Ali_Baba said:


> Russian Solder to Mother .... "Mother, our asses are being kicked everywhere ...."
> 
> ( Yup - about sums it all up )





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551116848531374080

"Those in a glass house shouldn't throw rocks"

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine war: Kyiv's forces moving towards occupied Kherson - Zelensky


Kherson city has been in the hands of Russian troops since the early days of the war.



www.bbc.co.uk





>> Progressing well towards kicking Russians out of Kherson.

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## Vergennes

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine war: Kyiv's forces moving towards occupied Kherson - Zelensky
> 
> 
> Kherson city has been in the hands of Russian troops since the early days of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Progressing well towards kicking Russians out of Kherson.



The world's second most powerful army has to dig in and fight on the defensive on many fronts against the Ukrainian army. Thought they were winning. How clever.

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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> The world's second most powerful army has to dig in and fight on the defensive on many fronts against the Ukrainian army. Thought they were winning. How clever.


3d chess by Putin


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine war: Kyiv's forces moving towards occupied Kherson - Zelensky
> 
> 
> Kherson city has been in the hands of Russian troops since the early days of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Progressing well towards kicking Russians out of Kherson.





You guys need to stop talking about Southern Ukraine. 👇 Those dumb claims aren't making sense any more.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551059605278674946







Vergennes said:


> The world's second most powerful army has to dig in and fight on the defensive on many fronts against the Ukrainian army. Thought they were winning. How clever.




This is a war between the West and Russia. The Ukrainians are just providing cannon fodders for the West since Westerners can't handle the serious casualties of going to war with Russia. And Russia is pretty much mopping the West to the floor.

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## ZeGerman

I see many here (funny enough….actually living in the west…our western hospitality allowing them to get education and earn well…) showing nothing but hate and ill wishes for their host country and fellow countrymen.

What to do? Should we use “chinese” style on them?? 
I mean…you never hear them critisize china so china must be finding the right “diplomatic” approach! 








Uighurs 'detained for beards and veils' - leak - BBC News


New documents reveal the "strongest evidence yet" of China's crackdown on people in Xinjiang.




www.bbc.com

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## kingQamaR

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine war: Kyiv's forces moving towards occupied Kherson - Zelensky
> 
> 
> Kherson city has been in the hands of Russian troops since the early days of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Progressing well towards kicking Russians out of Kherson.



Russia are embarrassing themselves. They thought they would be occupying most of Ukraine by now. Instead their army has been shown up to be poorly motivated, their equipment was out of date 25 years ago, and their leadership has been shown to be utterly deluded.

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## zartosht

this is about the 10th time we have heard of some glorious ukie counter attack somewhere.

With the same 3-4 “top 1% earners” spambots absolutly spamming page after page. 

Only for it to fizzle after a few dozen canon fodder get sent infront of the cameras to become target practise for artillery…..?

At some point someone needs to get banned for wilfully spamming misleading information…….. 1 time 2 times. 8 times? How many times do you have to recycle and spam the same bullshit?

it becomes nauseating.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You guys need to stop talking about Southern Ukraine. 👇 Those dumb claims aren't making sense any more.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551059605278674946
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a war between the West and Russia. The Ukrainians are just providing cannon fodders for the West since Westerners can't handle the serious casualties of going to war with Russia. And Russia is pretty much mopping the West to the floor.



Typical Russian excuse to their garbage performance in Ukraine that they are fighting against the west. If the west was really into it they would have delivered massive number of modern fighter jets,air defence systems and other heavy equipments. They would have hunred of himars and not just 12.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551210350548336640
NATO would obliterate the Russians in a few days,of course western haters (but living in the west) like you would disagree.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551186860185108480

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## Vergennes

We are 5 months into the conflict and Russia still hasn't achieved air superiority,LMAO.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> We are 5 months into the conflict and Russia still hasn't achieved air superiority,LMAO.




Talk is cheap. The population of Donbas have been defended from the planned Ukrainian-led massacres to the point where the Lugansk People's Republic is fully liberated and over 50% of Donesk People's Republic were liberated as well. You can couple that with over 76,000 of Ukraine's best trained and equipped forces have been killed and roughly 100,000 more were seriously wounded. The Zelenssky puppet is in hiding and his Western handlers are worrying about his safety as we speak now. *That is full demilitirization and denazification of Ukraine!!*

Let us not forget the high inflation and cost of living in the West as a result of the "Special Military Operation" from the Russian Federation. Every day you see people demonstrating in every Western country because of high cost of oil and cost of living. The entire Western hegemony has been challenged to the point where gas and oil is is sold outside of the US Dollar and the Euro. Russia has presented a serious military and economic challenge to the Empire of the AntiChrist (The Freemasonry World) as commonly known as the West. 

You can all bitch all you want, but Russians are on the verge of defeating the unipolar world!!

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551186860185108480


Putin special ops can be extended to Russia. The Chechen separatists are on the move.









Putin faces second war front as Chechens threaten new offensive in Russia


Russian President Vladimir Putin could be facing a second war front as Chechen forces opposed to his war in Ukraine threaten to launch their own offensive.



news.yahoo.com

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551216224897581057Another S-300 vehicle destroyed.

It seems there is no environmental impact, other than the vehicle.

There is no pit formed by the explosion effect in the vicinity. So I think no possibility of howitzer and MLRS.

There are two possibilities
1. Kamikaze drone
2. A precision-guided munition fired from a tactical UAV.

In other words, Russian air defense systems continue to disappear with attacks coming from the area which they exactly need to be defended.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

MH.Yang said:


> No, in China, "Nazi" is a very serious accusation.


But you still think Erdogan accusing European leaders to be ”Nazis” is OK…


----------



## dBSPL

A.P. Richelieu said:


> But you still think Erdogan accusing European leaders to be ”Nazis” is OK…


Can you share the full statement?

*

The Netherlands had expelled Fatma Betül Sayan Kaya, the former Minister of Family and Social Policies of Turkiye, by police force, despite her diplomatic immunity. It is not possible to explain this with any diplomatic practice and it is a completely nazist approach.

On the other hand, it was also entered in the court records that arson and murders against the Turkish minority in Germany were covered up and protected by the German intelligence and police.

You will burn the Turks alive while they sleep in their homes, you will protect and watch over the terrorists who take the lives of the Turks; Then you will be offended when Turkiye expresses its anger at this.

Accusing Turkiye of Nazism in the Dutch media and politics, Turcophobic statements will be considered as free and freedom of expression, but it will be bad when the Turks hit you with this lowly hypocrisy.

Hitler's spirit is still alive in the spirit of many European politicians such as Geert Wilders. Some openly express it, while others adopt a dishonest attitude as if they are mocking people's minds.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551182518073925634

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You can couple that with over 76,000 of Ukraine's best trained and equipped forces have been killed and roughly 100,000 more were seriously wounded.



Don't know what you've been smoking but i'd like some of that.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Han Patriot said:


> You are helping by cheering for the victim, we are helping by giving them condoms. Lol
> 
> 
> Choking? It hurts because the first peentration is always tight, after a while it self lubricates.


If you think that Russians are gobbling up dicks, You are more confused than I expected.



Viet said:


> No Germany wants to deliver Leopard 2, but can’t. Germany only has 200 tanks, if we handle over 200 tanks to Polen then we are down to underwear. the dumbest women in history: Angela Merkel. She stripped down the army, tanks can’t roll, plane can’t fly. During the cold war in the 1980 Germany had 5,000 tanks, participated against 20,000 Soviet tanks.
> Highnoon Germany must rearm.
> 
> View attachment 864889


Germany agreed in the Unification treaty to get rid of a large part of its equipment so it sold off a large number of tanks. That predates Merkel.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Don't know what you've been smoking but i'd like some of that.



He is completely delusional and barely worth responding to.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Don't know what you've been smoking but i'd like some of that.





F-22Raptor said:


> He is completely delusional and barely worth responding to.




Ah when all else fails, that is when you resort to ad hominem attacks. But I still laugh at your ever "game changing" weapons claims. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551152348243922945

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551252417433436160

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## Viet

A.P. Richelieu said:


> If you think that Russians are gobbling up dicks, You are more confused than I expected.
> 
> 
> Germany agreed in the Unification treaty to get rid of a large part of its equipment so it sold off a large number of tanks. That predates Merkel.


Germany is committed in the 2+4 treaty to reducing the army size to 340,000 men. There is no limitation to the number of tanks and fighter aircraft. The Germans can keep 7,000 tanks and 1,000 jets.
Now we are naked and Putin knows it, Germany can’t defend itself, least defends other allies in the NATO. The defense rests entirely on the US.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551253498506903556


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551201009246113792

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## Ali_Baba

Is Russia RUNNING OUT of weapons in Ukraine​








Russia using surface-to-air missiles to hit ground targets in Ukraine


The Soviet-era S-300 missile system, first deployed in 1979, was originally designed to defend against air raids and cruise missiles for the Soviet Air Defence Forces.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## dBSPL



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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551273597599113218

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551289740908969985


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551301284308951045

Reactions: Love Love:
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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> You are helping by cheering for the victim, we are helping by giving them condoms. Lol


You have no idea how sick that sounds, do you ? Of course not. Giving condoms to the rapist is an act of kindness to the rape victim. That is essentially what you are saying China is doing *FOR* Ukraine.

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## MH.Yang

A.P. Richelieu said:


> But you still think Erdogan accusing European leaders to be ”Nazis” is OK…


Do you have relevant news links?


----------



## Soldier35

A Russian ATGM crew destroyed a Ukrainian armored personnel carrier. The model of the armored personnel carrier is difficult to determine, but at maximum drag it is very similar to the American M113 armored personnel carrier.






The Ministry of Defense showed an episode of the combat work of Russian special forces in Ukraine.






Recently, one of the problems at the front has been a large number of PFM-1 petal mines. The Ukrainian army, retreating, with the help of cluster shells, massively carries out mining with PFM-1 petal mines. The Soviet plastic mine PFM-1 is copied from the American BLUE-43 and weighs only 80 grams. The mine contains about 37 grams of explosive VS-6D in liquid form. Russia abandoned the PFM-1 mines and switched to the PFM-1C version, which self-destructs after 40 hours. Ukraine also abandoned them and began to destroy mines, but the process was apparently too slow since they appeared at the front.






Russia has begun using the new Lastochka-M attack drones in Ukraine. There is no information on the new UAV. It is assumed that the drone "Swallow" is an analogue of the Skylark-1 LE made in Israel. It is only known that the "Swallows" in the course of combat use fragmentation and cumulative ammunition and they were struck by armored vehicles and manpower of the enemy. The drone is launched from a catapult and lands on an airbag. The UAV drops small-caliber ammunition adapted for use from the air. If we assume that this is a modernization of the Israeli Skylark-1 drone, then the characteristics of the Lastochka UAV will be something like this. Take-off weight 7.5 kg, payload 1.2 kg, operating time up to 3 hours, flight distance up to 40 km, application altitude up to 5000 meters. The drone uses 43 mm grenades adapted for air strikes.






A short story by a pilot about what kind of missiles the Su-35 aircraft is equipped with for combat missions.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551323077329539073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551315975966007296

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## The SC




----------



## Goritoes

Has Russian surrendered yet ? Cause I am hearing this since day 1 that Russians are losing badly and will be done within few weeks ? what happen ?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551221667019608066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551300196650192896

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainians getting hammered tonight. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551331914878943233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551352694744535042

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551352694744535042



Spoiler: Graphic: Seversk: Russian SOF ambushed Ukrainian fighters and cut off the Serebryanka-Seversk road. The grip on Seversk tightens as more routes are cut off.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551278351184166913




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551294212267773952

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551287705782419456
In 2-3 weeks the Russians have been unable to make major progress.

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## K_Bin_W

Goritoes said:


> Has Russian surrendered yet ? Cause I am hearing this since day 1 that Russians are losing badly and will be done within few weeks ? what happen ?


That will happen when the cows come home....


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551343660289122305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551343800727080960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551337282782863366

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551331102257815553

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551330218014642185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551324085157871616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551323215514968064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551323819226406912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551316688825683968

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551315432711372800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551314476682600449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551313481214959616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551313344174477314

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551312316158861312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551309308616478726

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551302805519990785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551292224025100288

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## RoadAmerica

Goritoes said:


> Has Russian surrendered yet ? Cause I am hearing this since day 1 that Russians are losing badly and will be done within few weeks ? what happen ?


🙄
They won’t have much to surrender in 6 months


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

MH.Yang said:


> Do you have relevant news links?


Apparently you have no backing for your comment that Turkey is kind to EU states.
Why comment on things You know nothing about? Anyone that has a minimum of knowledge about this would not ask for sources.

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## zartosht

EXCELLENT NEWS:

Russia's justice ministry has moved to liquidate the evil "jewish agency of israel" Russia branch









Russia moves to dissolve Jewish Agency branch that promotes immigration to Israel


Russia's Ministry of Justice has requested the liquidation of the Russian branch of the Jewish Agency, a non-profit organisation that promotes immigration to Israel, according to a Moscow court.




www.reuters.com





For those unfamiliar, this is an office set up in Russia and other eastern euro countries to harvest zionist migrants to emigrate to occupied palestine and steal palestinian lands.. Not only does this give loyal new citizens whos entire livelihoods depend on the zionist entity, but they even displace the native middle eastern looking jews with eastern euro whites to make israel look like a "white country" to the racist west..

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## gambit

Goritoes said:


> Has Russian surrendered yet ? Cause I am hearing this since day 1 that Russians are losing badly and will be done within few weeks ? what happen ?


If Russia withdraw because the Russian military cannot sustain the war, would that qualify as a defeat? After all, that is how people calls the US after Viet Nam and Afghanistan.

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## Goritoes

gambit said:


> If Russia withdraw because the Russian military cannot sustain the war, would that qualify as a defeat? After all, that is how people calls the US after Viet Nam and Afghanistan.


Well we have to see if Russians achieve their goals, and by goals I don't mean changing ones as per situation of that time, but goals that those countries set out before they went into the war.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551221667019608066
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551300196650192896


Can you show me original link of euronews? Cant seem to find anything about that….again….(this happens often with your russian tweets supposedly “quoting” western sources)


----------



## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> _去_


Erdogan misusing the Turks living in Germany as fifth column. When German authorities forbad Turk political rallies he calling Germany nazi, fascism. Erdogan believed he can do everything in foreign countries. Imagine Erdogan calls all Turk speaking people in China to public political rallies. Putin is the same. Putin believes wherever a Russian lives he has the right to attack the host country.









Erdoğan calls Merkel’s stance on EU membership ‘Nazism’


The Turkish president blasted the German chancellor for discussing an end to EU accession talks.




www.politico.eu


----------



## ZeGerman

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Apparently you have no backing for your comment that Turkey is kind to EU states.
> Why comment on things You know nothing about? Anyone that has a minimum of knowledge about this would not ask for sources.


I already gave him several links to sources.
He ignored the whole post.

Its hilarious. 
One hand we have nationalist islamist dictator erdogan who occupies european land, threatens war, calls us (his allies which send patriot shield for defense) nazi racists who like to see muslim children die….and treats european turks as “volksdeutschers” fifth column, openly asking them to form a mini-turkey in another land. 

Then we have a chinese who claims this behaviour is “kind and generous” to europe…and it is those (evil/racist?) europeans that do not accept turkey.

While china sends millions of muslims to re-education camps…something both many muslim and chinese posters here keep a blind eye on…cause it is so inconvenient for their ummah-china alliance vs evil racist west world view….

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## SLY

Viet said:


> Russians bombed Odessa, hardly the ink was dried. Putin is exposed as liar. He is not interested that Ukraine can resume export of grains. Why he signed in the first place? Remarkably he sent Shoigu.


The only people that Benefit from this whole situation are Israelis and the Americans there is no reason for Russia to attack the port after the deal they are winning the war regardless but the clown zelensky is getting all Ukrainian males killed but the Jews have already escaped to Israel sooner or later they will return and form a government in Ukraine but there wont be any Ukranian anymore
I wouldn't be surprised if these Israelis got their nuke tech from Ukraine
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/15/eu-signs-gas-deal-with-israel-egypt-in-bid-to-ditch-russia


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536984358619435008
The European Union, Israel and Egypt have signed a tripartite natural gas export deal as the bloc seeks to diversify away from Russian energy.

They want Europe to be dependent on Israeli gas from the stolen Land

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## Viet

SLY said:


> The only people that Benefit from this whole situation are Israelis and the Americans there is no reason for Russia to attack the port after the deal they are winning the war regardless but the clown zelensky is getting all Ukrainian males killed but the Jews have already escaped to Israel sooner or later they will return and form a government in Ukraine but there wont be any Ukranian anymore
> I wouldn't be surprised if these Israelis got their nuke tech from Ukraine
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/15/eu-signs-gas-deal-with-israel-egypt-in-bid-to-ditch-russia
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536984358619435008
> The European Union, Israel and Egypt have signed a tripartite natural gas export deal as the bloc seeks to diversify away from Russian energy.
> 
> They want Europe to be dependent on Israeli gas from the stolen Land


You seem seeing Jews everywhere. Beware, Jews come and steal your underwear. Seriously, the Jews are right and leave Russia. Lavrov sees Jews and Nazi as same.

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## SLY

Viet said:


> You seem seeing Jews everywhere. Beware, Jews come and steal your underwear. Seriously, the Jews are right and leave Russia. Lavrov sees Jews and Nazi as same.


Well You seem to concerned about the jews also as I can tell from your comment no I dont wear the underwear the only thing they would be grabbing is deez nutz Lavrov is a smart man and he sees the things the way they are Nazi is just short for Ashke Nazi so you cant blame Lavrov for not being a sheep like you?

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## MH.Yang

gambit said:


> If Russia withdraw because the Russian military cannot sustain the war, would that qualify as a defeat? After all, that is how people calls the US after Viet Nam and Afghanistan.


Of course, it's a failure. 

Even as long as Russia does not win Odessa and Kharkov in the end, it will be a failure.


----------



## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> I already gave him several links to sources.
> He ignored the whole post.
> 
> Its hilarious.
> One hand we have nationalist islamist dictator erdogan who occupies european land, threatens war, calls us (his allies which send patriot shield for defense) nazi racists who like to see muslim children die….and treats european turks as “volksdeutschers” fifth column, openly asking them to form a mini-turkey in another land.
> 
> Then we have a chinese who claims this behaviour is “kind and generous” to europe…and it is those (evil/racist?) europeans that do not accept turkey.
> 
> While china sends millions of muslims to re-education camps…something both many muslim and chinese posters here keep a blind eye on…cause it is so inconvenient for their ummah-china alliance vs evil racist west world view….


There is no reeducation camp in China, which is a rumor fabricated by the western media.


----------



## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551134660620685319


Another breach of International Humanitarian Law by Russia. Why am I not surprised

*Article 48: Basic rule*

In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives.
Under international humanitarian law, civilian objects such as schools, hospitals, and houses are protected. So are humanitarian, religious and medical objects, as well as the environment. In addition, cultural property benefits from an additional protection

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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> There is no reeducation camp in China, which is a rumor fabricated by the western media.


i see it as likely considering the documents shown….but also how the china historically dealt with these matters during taiping rebellion, cultural revolution, falun gong, or that plane of xinjiang leaders “mysteriously” crashing.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

RescueRanger said:


> Another breach of International Humanitarian Law by Russia. Why am I not surprised
> 
> *Article 48: Basic rule*
> 
> In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives.
> Under international humanitarian law, civilian objects such as schools, hospitals, and houses are protected. So are humanitarian, religious and medical objects, as well as the environment. In addition, cultural property benefits from an additional protection




The school was turned into a military base by the Ukrainians. That is why it was bombed, according to the Russians. So the first breach of "International Humanitarian Law" was by Ukraine using civilian infrastructure for military purposes.

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The school was turned into a military base by the Ukrainians. That is why it was bombed, according to the Russians. So the first breach of "International Humanitarian Law" was by Ukraine using civilian infrastructure for military purposes.


Please can you share independent verified information that the school was being used as a military base?

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## Broccoli

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551287705782419456
> In 2-3 weeks the Russians have been unable to make major progress.



But... but... but Russia is superpower what can reach Paris in two weeks they want!!!

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## Viet

SLY said:


> Well You seem to concerned about the jews also as I can tell from your comment no I dont wear the underwear the only thing they would be grabbing is deez nutz Lavrov is a smart man and he sees the things the way they are Nazi is just short for Ashke Nazi so you cant blame Lavrov for not being a sheep like you?


Lavrov is not smart. He is dumb. I don’t know why he turns himself from a diplomat to a dumb stooge.
Israel tends to neutral, now turns hostile. I mean Lavrov accuses Jews are Nazi.


----------



## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> i see it as likely considering the documents shown….but also how the china historically dealt with these matters during taiping rebellion, cultural revolution, falun gong, or that plane of xinjiang leaders “mysteriously” crashing.


Should we also consider incidents such as Belgium cutting black people's hands in Africa and British piracy. Do you think these countries are trustworthy?

With all due respect, that is your position, not your sincerity to discuss the facts with us. That means people like you are our enemies.

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Lavrov is not smart. He is dumb. I don’t know why he turns himself from a diplomat to a dumb stooge.
> Israel tends to neutral, now turns hostile. I mean Lavrov accuses Jews are Nazi.


Israel and Soros is bankrolling all this shit. You are blind if you can't see this Jewish agenda.



Broccoli said:


> But... but... but Russia is superpower what can reach Paris in two weeks they want!!!


But but but US is stronk, where is US? Ooooo yah teaching Afghans English....

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## Ali_Baba

*Two of Putin’s top pilots are wiped out in HIMARS missile strike on their motorcade in Ukraine*










Two of Putin's top pilots are wiped out in HIMARS missiles in Ukraine


Lieutenant Colonel Maksim Potyomin, 41 (pictured) and Colonel Anatoly Stasyukevich, 54 - both fighter pilots - were killed by a HIMARS strike in the Donbas region on July 8.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Israel and Soros is bankrolling all this shit. You are blind if you can't see this Jewish agenda.
> 
> 
> But but but US is stronk, where is US? Ooooo yah teaching Afghans English....


Soros is an old man. Israel has 6 million something people. So those few control the world? Ok. I hope they make China to a Jew colony.


----------



## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Soros is an old man. Israel has 6 million something people. So those few control the world? Ok. I hope they make China to a Jew colony.



I guess you must hate Jews very much. I saw you deliberately attract Chinese hatred for Israel several times.

Are you a German right wing?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551541219813203969

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551513126729826306

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> Should we also consider incidents such as Belgium cutting black people's hands in Africa and British piracy. Do you think these countries are trustworthy?
> 
> With all due respect, that is your position, not your sincerity to discuss the facts with us. That means people like you are our enemies.


Ehmm we in the west get these histories rubbed in our face constantly. Incessantly. 
Clearly you are not used when the same is done with China. 

Also lets not go back to far and keep it from 2000 and on. 
Treatment of falun gong, very low scores on religious tolerance (open doors listing), basically requiring religious institution to be state controlled/adhering to “patriotic” thoughts. 
And then the xinjiang seperatism and terrorism starts…how is China likely to act considering all that history?? Well….




__





China treats Uighur kids as ‘orphans’ after parents seized


Get the latest breaking news and headlines from the largest Arab News website. Get world news, sport news, business news, entertainment, lifestyle, video and photos.




www.arabnews.com





so to get back on the question:
how would China act towards turkish behaviour as erdogan does toward europe?? Answer…they would mercilessly crush any seperatist/ideological threath to the CCP. 

No turkish erdogan-imams
No turkish military service
No turkish double passports
No turkish tv programs
No turkish politicians rallying support in china
No turkish intelligence keeping ties/eyes on the turkish minority
(so far i kind of agree…i feel we are way to soft in europe against this “fifth column” erdogan interferance)

But likely also:
Criminalization
Patriotism tests
Proof of patriotism
Re-education
Enprisonment
Torture.



ZeGerman said:


> Ehmm we in the west get these histories rubbed in our face constantly. Incessantly.
> Clearly you are not used when the same is done with China.
> 
> Also lets not go back to far and keep it from 2000 and on.
> Treatment of falun gong, very low scores on religious tolerance (open doors listing), basically requiring religious institution to be state controlled/adhering to “patriotic” thoughts.
> And then the xinjiang seperatism and terrorism starts…how is China likely to act considering all that history?? Well….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China treats Uighur kids as ‘orphans’ after parents seized
> 
> 
> Get the latest breaking news and headlines from the largest Arab News website. Get world news, sport news, business news, entertainment, lifestyle, video and photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.arabnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so to get back on the question:
> how would China act towards turkish behaviour as erdogan does toward europe?? Answer…they would mercilessly crush any seperatist/ideological threath to the CCP.
> 
> No turkish erdogan-imams
> No turkish military service
> No turkish double passports
> No turkish tv programs
> No turkish politicians rallying support in china
> No turkish intelligence keeping ties/eyes on the turkish minority
> (so far i kind of agree…i feel we are way to soft in europe against this “fifth column” erdogan interferance)
> 
> But likely also:
> Criminalization
> Patriotism tests
> Proof of patriotism
> Re-education
> Enprisonment
> Torture.


However i am not your enemy. 
I greatly admire China. But simply prefer a softer Deng Xiaoping approach more to a new-Mao approach i am afraid Xi Jinping is moving towards.

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## ZeGerman

Ontopic.
It was very interesting to see that russia resumed gas deliveries after the “maintenance” of nordstream.

Is this a sign of russia being co-dependant on europe paying…shutting gas completely being simply too damaging.

Or is this simply playing with supply to drain as much money out of europe as possible. Saving the “nuclear option” of shutting all gas till later in the winter (or not, if ukraine progress favors russia)

In any case. Europe should get its act together and fill those reserves ASAP.

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## A.P. Richelieu

MH.Yang said:


> There is no reeducation camp in China, which is a rumor fabricated by the western media.


Since you appear to make comments without deeper knowledge of the issues, so why should anyone care about anything you say?


----------



## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> Ehmm we in the west get these histories rubbed in our face constantly. Incessantly.
> Clearly you are not used when the same is done with China.
> 
> Also lets not go back to far and keep it from 2000 and on.
> Treatment of falun gong, very low scores on religious tolerance (open doors listing), basically requiring religious institution to be state controlled/adhering to “patriotic” thoughts.
> And then the xinjiang seperatism and terrorism starts…how is China likely to act considering all that history?? Well….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China treats Uighur kids as ‘orphans’ after parents seized
> 
> 
> Get the latest breaking news and headlines from the largest Arab News website. Get world news, sport news, business news, entertainment, lifestyle, video and photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.arabnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so to get back on the question:
> how would China act towards turkish behaviour as erdogan does toward europe?? Answer…they would mercilessly crush any seperatist/ideological threath to the CCP.
> 
> No turkish erdogan-imams
> No turkish military service
> No turkish double passports
> No turkish tv programs
> No turkish politicians rallying support in china
> No turkish intelligence keeping ties/eyes on the turkish minority
> (so far i kind of agree…i feel we are way to soft in europe against this “fifth column” erdogan interferance)
> 
> But likely also:
> Criminalization
> Patriotism tests
> Proof of patriotism
> Re-education
> Enprisonment
> Torture.
> 
> 
> However i am not your enemy.
> I greatly admire China. But simply prefer a softer Deng Xiaoping approach more to a new-Mao approach i am afraid Xi Jinping is moving towards.


Because Turkey is the original creator of the East Turkistan organization, the relationship between China and Turkey is very bad, and the relationship between China and Greece is very good.

I just like Erdogan personally. I really think Erdogan is helping the EU stop refugees. You owe Turkey. 

Secondly, Mao Zedong, Hu Jintao and Xi Jinping are CCP leftists (similar to the US Democratic Party). Deng Xiaoping and Jiang Zemin are CCP rightists (similar to the US Republican Party). You feel right. Xi and Mao belong to the same faction. 

But you don't just hate the CCP's left, you hate the still efficient and capable Chinese govt.


----------



## Primus

@waz 

I think the thread needs to be cleaned up. Too many off topic posts

Reactions: Like Like:
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## waz

Keep to topic.

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## SLY

Viet said:


> Lavrov is not smart. He is dumb. I don’t know why he turns himself from a diplomat to a dumb stooge.
> Israel tends to neutral, now turns hostile. I mean Lavrov accuses Jews are Nazi.


Lavrov is holding a top position in Russia and you are not you just crawling on here on the forums Lavrov is a well respected man all around the world
Did you even read the last post what do you want him to call the AshkeNazi than do you have a better word for the Ashke Nazi's ? Not sure why you are so hurt by him calling the ashkenazi A Nazi you act more like a Hasbara troll than a viet

Is Viet suppose to be short for Vietnamese?

Does this man look like he’s on the losing side of anything?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551272992444932096

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551578582706753537

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551581151554412545

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## Vergennes

Russians keep assaulting the Vuhlehirska power plant for weeks but their assaults keep getting repelled. In fact Russians are still conducting WW1 type warfare,attacking in waves until one succeeds.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551585633243635714

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> Orban is a well known Russian stooge.


But Zelensky isn't a US stooge? 

once again, i ask humbly -WHAT kind of logic are you using? or is the US govt paying you for all these posts?

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## NotSure

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551513126729826306


Ukropistan says, the Ghost of Kiev destroyed at least 100 enemy jets on the first day. The same day, Russia hasn't send even ONE jet to Kiev. Ukropistan says, a woman downed a few Russian UAVs with a jar glass filled with pickles. And so on ...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551616569628934149

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551280770588762113

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## Lehrasap

MH.Yang said:


> I just like Erdogan personally. I really think Erdogan is helping the EU stop refugees. You owe Turkey.



EU can solve the refugee problem in one day if it becomes cruel like China and leave its humanitarian approach.

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## Paul2

Ukrainian news: antiradiation missiles for Himars are coming.

It's the first time I hear that HIMARS/M270 had antiradiation ammo.

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## A.P. Richelieu

SLY said:


> Lavrov is holding a top position in Russia and you are not you just crawling on here on the forums Lavrov is a well respected man all around the world
> Did you even read the last post what do you want him to call the AshkeNazi than do you have a better word for the Ashke Nazi's ? Not sure why you are so hurt by him calling the ashkenazi A Nazi you act more like a Hasbara troll than a viet
> 
> Is Viet suppose to be short for Vietnamese?
> 
> Does this man look like he’s on the losing side of anything?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551272992444932096


Maybe Lavrov is respected by those yet to experience his habitual lies.

Does this man look like he is a loser?


----------



## The SC



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551576734021173250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551585087283761153

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## The SC

Kherson authorities: the referendum in the region will take place and Ukraine no longer exists as a state
@RTarabic


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551653838750457858

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551652077595656193

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551649820120588288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551636870462840833

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## Viet

SLY said:


> Lavrov is holding a top position in Russia and you are not you just crawling on here on the forums Lavrov is a well respected man all around the world
> Did you even read the last post what do you want him to call the AshkeNazi than do you have a better word for the Ashke Nazi's ? Not sure why you are so hurt by him calling the ashkenazi A Nazi you act more like a Hasbara troll than a viet
> 
> Is Viet suppose to be short for Vietnamese?
> 
> Does this man look like he’s on the losing side of anything?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551272992444932096


Lavrov is a stupid liar. Do you think people don’t notice it? He repeatedly denied Russia invasion despite being questioned several times. Recently when he was asked whether or not he was consulted by Putin when making decision to go to war he refused to answer.

That proves he is just a stooge. Lavrov is not in the inner circle. Talking to him a waste of time. Zelinskki knows it he wants a direct negotiation with Putin.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551629642360131586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551629646206320640

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551629642360131586
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551629646206320640


Ah please..








#UKRAINERUSSIAWAR. In Bakhmut, the Russians create a new cauldron


According to Russian and Ukrainian social sources, on 16 May, the surrender of the military still present in Azvostal began, where, according to the Daily Express, there are also three former British special forces soldiers. However, the bombing of the plant continues. In the meantime, it is...



www.agcnews.eu




Since 2,5 months i had to suffer hearing about the great russian successes and how bakhmut-sloviansk-kramatorsk line was going to fall in one big cauldron move soon.

And here we are….

Again, first break that line, then see

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551621696095928320


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551593393234612224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551507404940054530

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551634953171095552

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## MH.Yang

Lehrasap said:


> EU can solve the refugee problem in one day if it becomes cruel like China and leave its humanitarian approach.



The refugees in the Middle East and Africa are not caused by China, and China has no obligation to accept these refugees. Europe and the USA are obliged to accept these refugees. 

China has accepted all the 300k refugees caused by the China-Vietnam War. In addition, China has accepted 40k Rohingya refugees. China is much kinder than the EU.









Vietnamese refugees well settled in China, await citizenship


One of the most successful local integration programmes in the world has seen some 300,000 former Vietnamese nationals build new lives in China. Ethnically Chinese, these refugees now want formal citizenship in their adopted homeland.




www.unhcr.org

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## zectech

ZeGerman said:


> Ontopic.
> It was very interesting to see that russia resumed gas deliveries after the “maintenance” of nordstream.
> 
> Is this a sign of russia being co-dependant on europe paying…shutting gas completely being simply too damaging.
> 
> Or is this simply playing with supply to drain as much money out of europe as possible. Saving the “nuclear option” of shutting all gas till later in the winter (or not, if ukraine progress favors russia)
> 
> In any case. Europe should get its act together and fill those reserves ASAP.



Ummm... the entire reason for this war is the trumpian goal to destroy the EU, and particularly the euro. To get Europe on their knees and go along with a cia bitcoin replacement of the euro.









4 Reasons to Believe the Deep State (or the NSA) Created Bitcoin


Since 2009, there have been many theories of whom created Bitcoin. Some even think the NSA created it.




www.ccn.com





Satoshi Nakamoto Means “Central Intelligence” in Japanese​
Putin and Trump have the same cia goals.

Trump has so many Russian ties. The Trump family, back over 50 years ago, was connected to those who are behind Putin today.

Trump is even tied to the Russian Mafia that Putin runs:









Felix Sater: The Crook Behind the Trump-Russia ‘Peace’ Plan


Sater is one of the most notorious and shady characters in the American president’s past, including his very recent past.



www.thedailybeast.com





The whole reason for the global hyperinflation plan is to usher in a system of total control, one global currency.

Trump and Putin are sock puppets of the Bush cia.






Trump is a PNACer, a neo-con, fake populist. Same with Chabad-cia Putin


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551693061792604160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551609740828065795


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551578582706753537





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551692634065965057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551591821444358146


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551566308457807877

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551548803953598464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551534290156019713

Reactions: Like Like:

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551703187337388033

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551516129385906176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551512496086945792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551507594258354176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551506477935894528


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551616569628934149





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551507404940054530

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551698972305235972

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551693647200063489

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551718313981526018

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## MH.Yang

Although it is summer now, the Germans have begun to hoard firewood.









Firewood - Germany is hoarding for the winter


That once a sawmill to the burning glass of German fear would be, that too is an expression of this extraordinary time. In his company’s office in St. Augustin near Bonn, Christian Rösgen takes off his headset and switches off the phone to be left alone. Then the managing director of the Buchen...




www.google.com.hk

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Soros is an old man. Israel has 6 million something people. So those few control the world? Ok. I hope they make China to a Jew colony.


China a jew colony? The last Jewish settlement here got assimilated and became Han. Lol. Vietnam would be colonised before us, wait you guys willingly bend over.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: Ukrainian vehicle destroyed, and dead Ukrainian troops lie on the grass.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551547612427321346




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551633631763898370

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551633156180172800

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551772614913396736


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551718313981526018





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551772441902546944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551771911595692033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551771730003337216


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Russia's missile rain tonight on Odessa and Nikolayev. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551771018842279936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551771131421593600


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551504230183309313

Keep scraping Russia


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551769907473383425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551769525321867265

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551705409534234627

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551504230183309313
> 
> Keep scraping Russia




Talk is cheap. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551720059415851008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551711369321336832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551700292290449408


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551762425405374470
It seems Russians will launch wave 3 of the Special military operation.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551725498379689984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551725773266067459


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551712969729474561

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> The refugees in the Middle East and Africa are not caused by China, and China has no obligation to accept these refugees. Europe and the USA are obliged to accept these refugees.


So alevi vs sunni war supported by russia (and a bit usa) is germanies obligation now? 

Nonsense, stop generalising the west.


MH.Yang said:


> China has accepted all the 300k refugees caused by the China-Vietnam War. In addition, China has accepted 40k Rohingya refugees. China is much kinder than the EU.


1. There were more refugees
2. China started this war
3. China took in (ethnic) chinese only. 
4.and discriminated against them still. No formal citizenship…(though then you can claim each year to house 300.000 refugees in UN charts….)

disgusting.

Rohingya.
1: show me link of that 40.000. I find one at 3000 that they wanted to resettle asap…there were millions refugees from a bordercountry….
2: china has kept strong ties with the agressor Myanmar….
3. China acts like its mostly a thing of economics. Absolutely no real critiscism or pressure to myanmar. 


Seriously…lets use Chinas “kind approach” in european situation….
poland accepted million plus ukranian refugees
Germany accepted million plus syrians.

“China KINDNESS activated”
Sorry we only accept ethnic polish/germans….which we then will never give full status.
Oh maybe a handfull of thousands to atleast be able to say “were taking in refugees!!” While making economic deals and strong diplomatic ties with the agressor.
Sanctions? Critiscism? Ofcourse not…more russian/assad trade deals! Gimme that Money money money! 


Seriously. Stop with the lies. 
Keep it at “were a developing nation that doesnt like to get involved outside its borders” as an excuse why a superpower and 2nd economy of the world refuses to really take in refugees.
“Kinder then europe” seriously?


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551705409534234627


I remember europe also pouring billions of aid into those countries and taking in hundreds of thousands of refugees….

You are here cheering for the agressor
So who is the real hypocrite??


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

MH.Yang said:


> The refugees in the Middle East and Africa are not caused by China, and China has no obligation to accept these refugees. Europe and the USA are obliged to accept these refugees.
> 
> China has accepted all the 300k refugees caused by the China-Vietnam War. In addition, China has accepted 40k Rohingya refugees. China is much kinder than the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese refugees well settled in China, await citizenship
> 
> 
> One of the most successful local integration programmes in the world has seen some 300,000 former Vietnamese nationals build new lives in China. Ethnically Chinese, these refugees now want formal citizenship in their adopted homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unhcr.org


According to International Agreements, China as well as any other country have to give asylum to anyone which can show that they are persecuted.
”Europe” is not a legal entity, and one country in Europe is not responsible for the actions of another European country.
With Your argumentation:
Asians are responsible for the large refugee streams in Asia, therefore Asia needs to take all refugees.


----------



## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> So alevi vs sunni war supported by russia (and a bit usa) is germanies obligation now?
> 
> Nonsense, stop generalising the west.
> 
> 1. There were more refugees
> 2. China started this war
> 3. China took in (ethnic) chinese only.
> 4.and discriminated against them still. No formal citizenship…(though then you can claim each year to house 300.000 refugees in UN charts….)
> 
> disgusting.
> 
> Rohingya.
> 1: show me link of that 40.000. I find one at 3000 that they wanted to resettle asap…there were millions refugees from a bordercountry….
> 2: china has kept strong ties with the agressor Myanmar….
> 3. China acts like its mostly a thing of economics. Absolutely no real critiscism or pressure to myanmar.
> 
> 
> Seriously…lets use Chinas “kind approach” in european situation….
> poland accepted million plus ukranian refugees
> Germany accepted million plus syrians.
> 
> “China KINDNESS activated”
> Sorry we only accept ethnic polish/germans….which we then will never give full status.
> Oh maybe a handfull of thousands to atleast be able to say “were taking in refugees!!” While making economic deals and strong diplomatic ties with the agressor.
> Sanctions? Critiscism? Ofcourse not…more russian/assad trade deals! Gimme that Money money money!
> 
> 
> Seriously. Stop with the lies.
> Keep it at “were a developing nation that doesnt like to get involved outside its borders” as an excuse why a superpower and 2nd economy of the world refuses to really take in refugees.
> “Kinder then europe” seriously?


1, Syrian refugees are caused by NATO. Of course, you might say it's the United States and Turkey, not Germany. Germany is only a NATO ally. By the same token, China and Myanmar do not even have an alliance. Why should China be responsible for the refugees in Myanmar?

2, There were only Vietnamese Chinese refugees in the China-Vietnam War, and that war did not cause other nationalities to become refugees. China has given these refugees jobs and land, and their income is three times that of Vietnamese. Do you think China is not good enough for these refugees?

3, Yes, China has not given these people nationality. But that's because we can't give nationality temporarily due to legal procedures, but China has given them equal treatment as nationals, these Vietnamese refugees enjoy Chinese medical insurance, which is even better than that of Americans medical insurance. And we are trying to make the NPC amend the law to give them nationality. It is not easy to give nationality to 300k people at a time, even in an immigrant country like the USA. These 300k Vietnamese refugees will eventually be able to obtain Chinese nationality.

4, China is closely related to several autonomous states in northern Myanmar, not the central government of Myanmar. China has limited influence on Rohingyas in southern Myanmar. And now the Myanmar military government has suspended China's B&R project in Myanmar and blackmailed China to recognize the military government, so the relationship between the military governments of China and Myanmar is cold now, and they are unable to adjust the Rohingya issue for the time being. And China has taken in 30000 Rohingyas.


----------



## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> 1, Syrian refugees are caused by NATO. Of course, you might say it's the United States and Turkey, not Germany. Germany is only a NATO ally. By the same token, China and Myanmar do not even have an alliance. Why should China be responsible for the refugees in Myanmar?


Hama massacre ring a bell? 
Assad petrol bombs? 
The russian butcher of aleppo?
“Nato responsible” pfff. 


MH.Yang said:


> 2, There were only Vietnamese Chinese refugees in the China-Vietnam War, and that war did not cause other nationalities to become refugees. China has given these refugees jobs and land, and their income is three times that of Vietnamese. Do you think China is not good enough for these refugees?


China taking in refugees on race basis? 
Kind? 

Not giving citizenship after generations?
Kind? Utter bullshit. Those 1 million german citizens will get passports within the generation.



MH.Yang said:


> 4, China is closely related to several autonomous states in northern Myanmar, not the central government of Myanmar. China has limited influence on Rohingyas in southern Myanmar. And now the Myanmar military government has suspended China's B&R project in Myanmar and blackmailed China to recognize the military government, so the relationship between the military governments of China and Myanmar is cold now, and they are unable to adjust the Rohingya issue for the time being. And China has taken in 30000 Rohingyas.



I dont trust your unsupported number.
Even if it is 30.000 this is ridiculously small for when there is a ethnic cleansing in a border nation…..”kind”
Poland took in a million ukranians.


----------



## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> Didn't the news you read tell you that 300k Vietnamese refugees enjoy the same treatment as the Chinese? The Chinese govt did not drive them away. What's the problem with obtaining nationality later? The Chinese government needs to solve many legal procedures for them, which takes time.
> 
> I have clearly told you that the Vietnam War did not cause other ethnic groups to become refugees, only Vietnamese Chinese left Vietnam. In addition, you may not know that almost all Vietnamese have more or less Chinese descent. They can almost show evidence that they are Vietnamese Chinese.


Europe time and again takes in hundreds of thousands of refugees. Many times from conflicts they do not play a part in. 
Millions if it is a bordering country. 

China only takes in their own race in large numbers. 
and if there is an ethnic cleansing in a bordering non ethnic chinese nation…they keep economic deals with the agressor…and take in a token amount (3000 from source). Which will not get citizenship for many generation.

This is far from “kind”
This is far far far less tolerant then europe.
Simple facts.

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## Vergennes

MH.Yang said:


> I admit that 300k Vietnamese refugees have indeed waited for nationality for 40 years, and the Chinese govt is indeed not as efficient as Europe on this issue.
> But the Chinese govt has never expelled or repatriated them, and has given them the same treatment. It is clear that they will eventually acquire nationality.
> 
> There is a Chinese proverb "Who shit and who wipes his a2s". China will bear the responsibility for the China-Vietnam War(China has accepted all the refugees caused by this war), and the same NATO countries should also bear the responsibility for the wars in which NATO has participated.
> 
> China's small number of refugees is due to the small number of wars China has participated in. Avoiding war is the greatest kindness. NATO countries bombed other countries into ruins and accepted some refugees. This is not "kindness", this is "atonement".
> 
> China's neighbors have two sources of refugees, one is Myanmar, and China is willing to assume the responsibility of Asian leaders. As long as Rohingya refugees can reach the Chinese border, China will host them. The other is Afghanistan. Afghan refugees should be received by NATO countries.
> 
> *Who shit and who wipes his a2s!*





zhxy said:


> Why the West wants China to accept more refugees? Because they hate China.
> 
> A year ago, the United States asked China to accept Afghan refugees.
> 
> US urges China to take Afghan refugees while accusing China of Muslim genocide. In all their scenarios, China is always the villain.
> View attachment 865299



Could you debate somewhere else about China Vietnam and what not,nobody gives a flying fck about your discussion.

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## MH.Yang

Vergennes said:


> Could you debate somewhere else about China Vietnam and what not,nobody gives a flying fck about your discussion.



Sorry. We were originally discussing the refugees caused by the Ukrainian war. It was zegerman who dragged the thread onto the Vietnamese and Rohingyas.

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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> There is a Chinese proverb "Who shit and who wipes his a2s". China will bear the responsibility for the China-Vietnam War(China has accepted all the refugees caused by this war), and the same NATO countries should also bear the responsibility for the wars in which NATO has participated.


Dumping us all under the Nato pile?
Even when USA unilaterally attacks, or it is UN based. Or even when nonsuch thing was applicable (such as start conflict syria)

Such a predictable excuse…


MH.Yang said:


> China's small number of refugees is due to the small number of wars China has participated in. Avoiding war is the greatest kindness. NATO countries bombed other countries into ruins and accepted some refugees. This is not "kindness", this is "atonement".


We have somalian, eritrean, iraqi, nigerian, bangladeshi, vietnamese, ukranian, syrian, bosnian, lebanese. Again many not because of Nato starting the war.


MH.Yang said:


> *Who shit and who wipes his a2s!*


Oh so you will host north korean defectors? Oh no you make deals with the korean dictator for money and power (like with assad, like in myanmar..), see them as “illegal economic migrants” and routinely drag them back to be tortured there….

China acts like a swiss banker during WW2.
China cannot wait to make deals and earn from the worst dictators and agressors. Those that caused the refugee crisis.

China then Only takes in some ethnic chinese (no citizenship though!), and a handfull of rohingya (from million refugees….), while regularly dragging back north korean defectors to their death.

“chinese kindness” . You can keep it.

(Last post on subject not derail thread further)


----------



## Han Patriot

Admin please ban this zegerman guy, he is derailing the thread. We are talking about Ukraine and Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Soldier35

An episode of the work of Russian assault groups in Ukraine. Machine-gun crew and a professional sniper pair keep the defense in the building and clear the approaches to it in Ukraine from the enemy. (this and other videos have subtitles)






The crew of the Russian air defense system "Buk" spoke about the confrontation with the American MLRS "HIMARS" in Ukraine. The goal is difficult, but the interception of HIMARS MLRS missiles in Ukraine has ceased to be a problem, Russian air defense crews have already gained experience in combating it.






There was information that the English howitzers L119 caliber 105 mm have already been delivered to the territory of Ukraine. In Ukraine, they said that these howitzers in the future should replace the 122-mm howitzers of Soviet production. Howitzers were produced under license and the United States under the name M119. The L118 light howitzer was developed in the UK to replace the obsolete 105 mm M56 howitzers. The howitzer was produced in two versions: L-118 with a conventional barrel and L-119 with a shortened one. L119s were withdrawn from service by England in 2005. Howitzer L-119 with a shortened barrel shoots at 11 km, it is used mainly for training. The firing range of the L-118 howitzer with a conventional high-explosive fragmentation projectile is 17 km, with an active-reactive projectile - 20 km. The weight of the howitzer is 2.3 tons, the calculation is 5-7 people. Among the advantages of the howitzer are its light weight, the ability to be towed by off-road vehicles and transferred by helicopters.

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## Soldier35

The Russian Ministry of Defense showed the work of operators of the S-300V air defense system in Russia. The video shows the 9S32 multi-channel missile guidance station. The 9S32 station is capable of simultaneously performing a sector search and tracking up to 12 targets at a range of up to 150 km for aircraft and from 60 to 90 km for various types of missiles. The station has been in service with Russia since 1983.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551902105195118599

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551899226250117121

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> Could you debate somewhere else about China Vietnam and what not,nobody gives a flying fck about your discussion.


Just a note
Certainly off topic
Same same but different
Refugee waves in Vietnam, China exist thru history however never comparable to such genocide extent of Russia war against Ukraine. Vietnam accepted waves of chinese refugees when Ming dynasty collapsed.
Putin in contrast just follows his forefathers businesses: stealing other people territories, selling oil and gas to make the livings. Much money goes into military complex. The rich remain rich and in power, vast majority of Russians have no say, remain poor. Putin hates Ukraine because it has a democratic structure, liberty, european as well as Nato membership perspective, more wealthy in the future. Last but not least Ukraine has grains surpluses.
Chinese make the livings by hard work.
That’s something I wish the Russians will learn eventually.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551850385073119232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551876263010263040

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551875299373158401

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


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## 925boy

Paul2 said:


> Ukrainian news: antiradiation missiles for Himars are coming.
> 
> It's the first time I hear that HIMARS/M270 had antiradiation ammo.


When you are on the US side of any military conflict, especially in modern times, you will hear the US military and govt do, say and see everything BUT WIN the war. Have u noticed that pattern too?

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## Akritas

MH.Yang said:


> Most refugees in the world have relations with NATO. Dare you deny that? Is Germany not a member of NATO?


*The point is to understand the separation between refugee and immigrant,* because in Europe 99% are immigrants and not refugees. *When the refugee goes to the first safe country, he/she is considered a refuge*e. But if he/she wants to leave and go elsewhere, then he is an immigrant.
So when the Ukrainian goes to Poland or Romania or the EU (there is an agreement) he/she is considered a refugee.
Another example is the Syrian who went to Turkey or Jordan or the Venezuelian that went to Colombia.
If he/she wants to go elsewhere, then he/she is an immigrant, and usually an illegal one.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551972189955555332


----------



## gambit

Akritas said:


> *The point is to understand the separation between refugee and immigrant,* because in Europe 99% are immigrants and not refugees. *When the refugee goes to the first safe country, he/she is considered a refuge*e. But if he/she wants to leave and go elsewhere, then he is an immigrant.
> So when the Ukrainian goes to Poland or Romania or the EU (there is an agreement) he/she is considered a refugee.
> Another example is the Syrian who went to Turkey or Jordan or the Venezuelian that went to Colombia.
> If he/she wants to go elsewhere, then he/she is an immigrant, and usually an illegal one.


A refugee always leave because of an immediate threat to his personal being. He is compelled by circumstances beyond his control. His choices are quickly reduced to the stark 'leave or die' situation. Finally, his final choice to leave is always understandable and even sympathized by others.

On the other hand, an immigrant leave by choice, compelled mostly by economic and/or financial gains. His current life is not threatened or at worst, threats are perceived rather than material, and is time dependent. Finally, his choice to leave are not always hospitably received by his intended destination.



925boy said:


> When you are on the US side of any military conflict, especially in modern times, you will hear the US military and govt do, say and see everything BUT WIN the war. Have u noticed that pattern too?


That is true. So always take the opposite of the US military. Victory against the US military is assured.


----------



## ZeGerman

During every crisis it is always interesting to see how the EU adopts (or fails to do so), 









Commission president calls to end unanimity in EU foreign policy decisions


Ursula von der Leyen calls for qualified majority voting, saying geopolitical events require faster response.




www.politico.eu













Member states commit to reducing gas demand by 15% next winter


EU member states today reached a political agreement on a voluntary reduction of natural gas demand by 15% this winter.




www.consilium.europa.eu





Moving to qualified majority and a further shared energy market/stock will definately help the EU become more robust and fast acting


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551972189955555332




Some forest burning; there was nothing else to see there. It is very likely that the whole thing was staged.

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## sammuel

~

Few side notes On Europe.

I read that some here, complain that this war get's different interest and response than wars in other places . which are ignored.

I agree there is for sure something in that.

But one must take into account and remember , that Europe was the scene for the two most horrific wars in human history .

European earth is drenched with the is blood of millions that have died there in wars.

Than for a while it seems that European countries took a new path . It no longer seemed likely that they would engage in this kind of war again.

Now again we see Artillery exchange , in a mass that we have not seen since world war 2.

So yes , i too find find this war is disturbing , specially because it takes place in Europe.

A sign that humanity is not heading in the right direction.

~


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551993127719911427

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551988673796882436

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551930335725772800


----------



## zartosht

One of the biggest stars (and unsung heros) of this war is the *Russian GRU.*

It is unbelievable how accurate Russian targeting and inteligence is deep inside ukraine. no way in hell they can be getting these sorts of intel from satelites. 

They have deeply infiltrated the Ukie government and intel services. And they have provided devastating intel on mass gatherings of mercenaries and western equipment.

The sheer desperation of the ukies constantly purging senior members of the government,intel, military speaks to the absolute panic and paranoia their succesful efforts have caused the ukies.

Russian intelligence capabilities are absolute world class.

ps. The Ukie commander of the special forces just got dismissed by paranoid mr.winning zelensky.

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## Viet

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> Few side notes On Europe.
> 
> I read that some here, complain that this war get's different interest and response than wars in other places . which are ignored.
> 
> I agree there is for sure something in that.
> 
> But one must take into account and remember , that Europe was the scene for the two most horrific wars in human history .
> 
> European earth is drenched with the is blood of millions that have died there in wars.
> 
> Than for a while it seems that European countries took a new path . It no longer seemed likely that they would engage in this kind of war again.
> 
> Now again we see Artillery exchange , in a mass that we have not seen since world war 2.
> 
> So yes , i too find find this war is disturbing , specially because it takes place in Europe.
> 
> A sign that humanity is not heading in the right direction.
> 
> ~


There is no comparison. The Russia invasion is an all out war against Ukraine. Also. Russia poses a direct threat to Europe. You can’t compare it to x,y war in Africa or elsewhere. People here fear a potential Russia invasion. They see it what the Russians are doing in Ukraine, looting, raping, killing. The US fears a possible Russia attack as well. That’s why the US is massively involved, the weaker the Russians become the better it’s for US security.

The Ukraine contact group has 50 countries. That means 50 countries consider Russia as a direct threat. That’s more than 30+2 Nato members.


----------



## Lehrasap

MH.Yang said:


> The refugees in the Middle East and Africa are not caused by China, and China has no obligation to accept these refugees. Europe and the USA are obliged to accept these refugees.


Today millions of refugees are coming to EU and US/Canada/Australia ... and they were not caused refugees by US/West. They are granted asylum only on the basis of humanity, while local governments are dictators, or religious nuts, or internal wars which have nothing to do with the EU. 
You will be an utterly unjust person if you deny this humanitarian act of the Western countries and still claim that all these millions of refugees during the last couple of decades were all caused by the West.



MH.Yang said:


> In addition, China has accepted 40k Rohingya refugees.



Instead of that, it would have been better for China to tell dictator forces in Myanmar to stop the massacre instead of supporting these dictator forces.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Lehrasap said:


> Today millions of refugees are coming to EU and US/Canada/Australia ... and they were not caused refugees by US/West. They are granted asylum only on the basis of humanity, while local governments are dictators, or religious nuts, or internal wars which have nothing to do with the EU.
> You will be an utterly unjust person if you deny this humanitarian act of the Western countries and still claim that all these millions of refugees during the last couple of decades were all caused by the West.
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of that, it would have been better for China to tell dictator forces in Myanmar to stop the massacre instead of supporting these dictator forces.


 Call in the 'sap to derail the thread with deranged tirades... You seriously want to be corrected on who caused all the wars, devastation and color revolutions in the past century and more precisely after the break up Soviet Union and it's subsequent unipolar world?

I don't mind you living in delusion but reflecting such... so blatantly in posts takes it to a whole new level...
... a call to the lala land.

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## S10

Lehrasap said:


> Instead of that, it would have been better for China to tell dictator forces in Myanmar to stop the massacre instead of supporting these dictator forces.



That's Myanmar's internal affairs. It's not China's place to tell others how to run their countries. Maybe don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong and your nose won't get broken.

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## The SC




----------



## A.P. Richelieu

925boy said:


> When you are on the US side of any military conflict, especially in modern times, you will hear the US military and govt do, say and see everything BUT WIN the war. Have u noticed that pattern too?


Yes, everyone has seen Saddam Hussein, Gadaffi, Mullah Omar, Usama bin Laden and Milosevich celebrating their victories…


----------



## Ali_Baba

The ‘most-hunted weapon in all of Ukraine’: How HIMARS stalled Russia’s brutal advance​








The ‘most-hunted weapon in all of Ukraine’: How HIMARS stalled Russia’s advance


The mobile artillery system has been credited with halting Russia’s advance, but can it turn the tide? Richard Hall reports.




www.independent.co.uk







“*They seek HIMARS here, they seek HIMARS there*. *Those Russians seek HIMARS everywhere*. *Is HIMARS in heaven or is HIMARS in hell?* *That demned elusive HIMARS*” ....


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551968720989347843

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552016183922233346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551866880167710723

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551853863300366336

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552035008570957844

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552036099870134273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552034856460324867

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552031892890947586


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552018990746243072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552044677637046273

Russian missile rain all over Ukraine 👇

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552028599200391169

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552030417569587201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552027576268357635

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552027457091522561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552024812909912065

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552012500769677312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552011347956752384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552002416459087872

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552003015103627264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552004564810956801


----------



## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552035008570957844
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552036099870134273
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552034856460324867
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552031892890947586


Looks like Russian air defence systems failed again and Ukrainian strikes hit the mark.

morning will tell if there was enough damage to take out the bridge or if more strikes are required


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551988231079600128

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552034814542225408
HIMARS strike


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551969541504237568

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## dBSPL

The Russian Patrol Boat, which was hit by the rocketsan MAM-L weighing only 22 kilograms, split in two

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551973370891321344


----------



## The SC

***

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551992751574683649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551989582014648322

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552052266882015232


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551986300403712003

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551985752766119937

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552017950575661056

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552012564485267456
Switchblade 300 attack on Russian territory


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552034814542225408
> HIMARS strike





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552034142187134984

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## khansaheeb

Clutch said:


> Su-35S: Russia’s Newish Fighter That Was a Powerhouse (Until Ukraine?)​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> By
> Peter Suciu
> 
> 
> Published
> 3 hours ago
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image: Creative Commons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Russia’s Su-35S fighter seems like a modernized version of the Su-27, making it a clear winner for many reasons. And yet, while it would have seemed this modern plane would have done well over the skies in Ukraine all has not gone according to plan*: Recently a pair of Russian Sukhoi Su-35 (NATO reporting name “Flanker-E”) – the improved derivative of the Cold War-era Su-27 – had bombed targets in Ukraine before returning to its base. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced crews of the Su-35S fighter jets from the Western Military District of the Russian Armed Forces destroyed viral “military infrastructure of the Armed Forces of Ukraine during the special military operation.”
> 
> The Su-35S was developed to gain air supremacy by destroying manned and unmanned aerial vehicles with guided missiles at long, medium, and short ranges, while conducting long-range and short-range combat maneuvers.
> For its part, Ukraine had also announced a Su-35S was shot down during an aerial dogfight over the Kherson region on May 27. That was less than two months after another Su-35S had been downed by Ukrainian air defenses near the Kharkiv region in early April.
> *Su-35 – Capable Warbird?*
> 
> The Sukhoi Su-35S is a fourth-generation “++” aircraft that was designed with some fifth-generation technologies. The Flanker-E, which is essentially the second improved version of the Su-27M, is single-seat, twin-engine, supermaneuverable aircraft. It is an air superiority that can be used as a ground-attack aircraft.
> The Su-35S features thrust-vectoring engines in place of the Su-27’s canards. It has been described by some Kremlin analysts as a capable foe to current U.S. aircraft, including the F-15 Eagle, the F/A-18, and even the F-35 Lightning II.
> 
> Russia has long touted its capabilities, and according to United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), the Su-35S’s manufacturer, the fighter “combines the qualities of a modern fighter (super-maneuverability, superior active and passive acquisition aids, high supersonic speed and long-range, capability of managing battle group actions, etc.) and a good tactical airplane (wide range of weapons that can be carried, modern multi-channel electronic warfare system, reduced radar signature, and high combat survivability).”
> It is equipped with an Irbis phased-array radar control system which enables the aircraft to detect quickly and track simultaneously up to four ground targets or up to 30 airborne targets, while it can also engage up to eight airborne targets at the same time. In addition, the radar control system has the friend-or-foe identification capability for aerial and maritime objects, and is also capable of identifying the class and type of airborne targets and taking aerial photos of the ground. In theory, those capabilities would make for a highly capable aircraft.
> The Su-35’s armament includes a GSh-30-1 30mm autocannon with 150 rounds, along with 17,630 pounds of payload on 12 external points. It can carry a variety of air-to-air, air-to-surface, anti-radiation, and anti-ship missiles, as well as a number of TV, laser-, and satellite-guided bombs.
> Its twin Saturn AL-41F1S turbofans provide the Su-35 with maneuverability that UAC claims can easily match or exceed the evasion techniques of nearly all existing fourth-generation fighters. With a maximum speed of 1,550 mph and a ceiling of 59,050 feet, it is a well-armed, speedy aircraft.
> *Flanker Fails?*
> Despite Russia’s claims, some less biased aviation experts have suggested that the aircraft has failed to live up to the hype and that it has been little more than a stopgap by the Kremlin to update its antiquated Cold War fighters.
> 
> The Aviation Geek Club quoted Abhirup Sengupta, an aviation expert, who explained via Quora, “It’s marketed as ‘world-beating’ – something it doesn’t come close to.”
> Sengupta explained, “The Su-35 is definitely the most capable fighter in the Russian Air Force and there is no doubt that it presents a serious threat to any 4th gen aircraft out there. But to say that it’s on the same level as today’s F-15E, F/A-18E/F, Typhoon or Rafale, much less ‘superior’ is defying reality.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Su-35 fighter jet. Image Credit: Creative Commons.
> The fact that not one, but two of the Flanker-Es have been shot down in Ukraine – where Russia maintains an edge, even if it is uncontested control of the skies speaks volumes about the Su-35S. It could also explain why the Kremlin hasn’t opted to send additional Su-35S fighters to the warzone.
> 
> 
> 
> If that is so... The Islamic movements would have win.... But that wasn't so.
> 
> 
> Lol... Butchers????


"The Aviation Geek Club quoted Abhirup Sengupta, an aviation expert, who explained via Quora,"

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552051097354870791

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552063863633465351

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552063647224107009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552047305251069963

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552052037558456320

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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> One of the biggest stars (and unsung heros) of this war is the *Russian GRU.*
> 
> It is unbelievable how accurate Russian targeting and inteligence is deep inside ukraine. no way in hell they can be getting these sorts of intel from satelites.
> 
> They have deeply infiltrated the Ukie government and intel services. And they have provided devastating intel on mass gatherings of mercenaries and western equipment.
> 
> The sheer desperation of the ukies constantly purging senior members of the government,intel, military speaks to the absolute panic and paranoia their succesful efforts have caused the ukies.
> 
> Russian intelligence capabilities are absolute world class.
> 
> ps. The Ukie commander of the special forces just got dismissed by paranoid mr.winning zelensky.


Well wouldnt exaggerate too much but it is indeed a fact russia spent many years on infiltrating and has been using the fifth column (russian ethnics) in ukraine.

The ukranian secret services had to dismiss a large amount of people on suspicion of treason. And that Cherson was even taken without much of a fight (bridges were never blown up) speaks volumes as well. 

Overall, the support is less then the russians expected though, with even russian speaking areas providing resistance.

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## NotSure

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552012564485267456
> Switchblade 300 attack on Russian territory


And used it to attack civilians. Yep, this is the typcial ukrop and nato way of warfare.

And look how proud our spambot F-22 is, posting evidence for a warcrime.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552034142187134984



air defence systems intercepted all of them but somehow there are videos on the internet of the bridge being hit and today has been closed for traffic. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552150712041279490
Russian bots are such a bunch of clowns,they were the ones claiming the moskva wasn't hit,then there was an accident but fire is extinguished and the ship is returning to port and then finally admitting it sank,LMAO.


----------



## NotSure

True that!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551853863300366336

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551968720989347843
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552016183922233346
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551866880167710723
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551853863300366336


Medvedew is very angry now.
Hopefully he doesn’t run amok and beats the neighbors chickens.


----------



## Lehrasap

OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> You seriously want to be corrected on who caused all the wars, devastation and color revolutions in the past century


You seriously want to be corrected that we are not living in the past century, and the present people of European countries are not responsible of what happened in the past, where all were busy in killing others. 

The present people of EU countries are not bound to give asylum to refugees under any law. 

And if they are indeed giving asylum today, then it is only and only on the basis of humanity. 

Look at Iran and all other Muslims countries. 
How Afghan refugees are considered as 2nd class citizens in Iran. 
How Afghans are not even able to get the citizenship of Iran despite living for decades there. 
How Afghans are not even able to marry any Iranian (especially women) like a normal Iranian can marry.

Afghans in EU countries have far more rights as compared to the so-called Islamic Republic of Iran. 

And then come such people like you from Iran and other such dictatorships with low records of human rights, and try to criticize the human friendly people of EU countries of today, who make sacrifices in order to give asylum to refugees and to give them equal human rights.



S10 said:


> That's Myanmar's internal affairs. It's not China's place to tell others how to run their countries. Maybe don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong and your nose won't get broken.



This is the peak of stupidity. You have no problems when China backs up the Myanmar Army today, but you have problem when China has to stop Myanmar's Army from the massacre of Rohingya. 

China Pledges Support for Myanmar’s Junta, ‘No Matter How the Situation Changes’​

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## MyNameAintJeff

Lehrasap said:


> You seriously want to be corrected that we are not living in the past century, and the present people of European countries are not responsible of what happened in the past, where all were busy in killing others.
> 
> The present people of EU countries are not bound to give asylum to refugees under any law.
> 
> And if they are indeed giving asylum today, then it is only and only on the basis of humanity.
> 
> Look at Iran and all other Muslims countries.
> How Afghan refugees are considered as 2nd class citizens in Iran.
> How Afghans are not even able to get the citizenship of Iran despite living for decades there.
> How Afghans are not even able to marry any Iranian (especially women) like a normal Iranian can marry.
> 
> Afghans in EU countries have far more rights as compared to the so-called Islamic Republic of Iran.
> 
> And then come such people like you from Iran and other such dictatorships with low records of human rights, and try to criticize the human friendly people of EU countries of today, who make sacrifices in order to give asylum to refugees and to give them equal human rights.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the peak of stupidity. You have no problems when China backs up the Myanmar Army today, but you have problem when China has to stop Myanmar's Army from the massacre of Rohingya.
> 
> China Pledges Support for Myanmar’s Junta, ‘No Matter How the Situation Changes’​


Iran is for Iranians, and not for anyone else.
EU nations have committed national suicide by opening their borders to everyone who came, and even giving incentives for people to come.
Today European natives have become minorities in many of their own cities. Some Europeans have woken up to this fact and are trying to fight back, but it's already too late.

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## Bengal71

Han Patriot said:


> Admin please ban this zegerman guy, he is derailing the thread. We are talking about Ukraine and Russia.



Agreed. 

@waz @The Eagle

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## mulj

Lehrasap said:


> You seriously want to be corrected that we are not living in the past century, and the present people of European countries are not responsible of what happened in the past, where all were busy in killing others.
> 
> The present people of EU countries are not bound to give asylum to refugees under any law.
> 
> And if they are indeed giving asylum today, then it is only and only on the basis of humanity.
> 
> Look at Iran and all other Muslims countries.
> How Afghan refugees are considered as 2nd class citizens in Iran.
> How Afghans are not even able to get the citizenship of Iran despite living for decades there.
> How Afghans are not even able to marry any Iranian (especially women) like a normal Iranian can marry.
> 
> Afghans in EU countries have far more rights as compared to the so-called Islamic Republic of Iran.
> 
> And then come such people like you from Iran and other such dictatorships with low records of human rights, and try to criticize the human friendly people of EU countries of today, who make sacrifices in order to give asylum to refugees and to give them equal human rights.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the peak of stupidity. You have no problems when China backs up the Myanmar Army today, but you have problem when China has to stop Myanmar's Army from the massacre of Rohingya.
> 
> China Pledges Support for Myanmar’s Junta, ‘No Matter How the Situation Changes’​


You are really commited sectarian follower of secularism, thing is that they not welcome anybody because of so called "humanism" that is just cute word for filling labour and demoghrafic gaps, so it is just from necessity not altruism, once when white human resource appear like ukrainian one, they switch towards it as they banned afgans in favor of ukrainians, that is all you need to know about integrity and truthfullness of so called european humanistic values.

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## ziaulislam

Never understood russia plan
Do you want or not take all ukraine?
If so why wouldnt you do a no fly zone?

Confused polciy that simply prolonged a war


----------



## waz

Keep to thread (general statement). Thank you.


----------



## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> air defence systems intercepted all of them but somehow there are videos on the internet of the bridge being hit and today has been closed for traffic.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552150712041279490
> Russian bots are such a bunch of clowns,they were the ones claiming the moskva wasn't hit,then there was an accident but fire is extinguished and the ship is returning to port and then finally admitting it sank,LMAO.


----------



## Ali_Baba

MeFishToo said:


>



looks like it is out of action now - not fit to move vehicles over - that will affect resupply efforts. v.v.v precise strikes along the bridge, basically the same as what you will get with an LGB.

All hail HIMARS..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552201554907873280


Ali_Baba said:


> looks like it is out of action now - not fit to move vehicles over - that will affect resupply efforts. v.v.v precise strikes along the bridge, basically the same as what you will get with an LGB.
> 
> All hail HIMARS..



Smart from the Ukrainians, they decided to attack the width of the bridge instead of the entire length. And it proves how impressive HIMARS accuracy is.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552275848685920256

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## ZeGerman

Ali_Baba said:


> looks like it is out of action now - not fit to move vehicles over - that will affect resupply efforts. v.v.v precise strikes along the bridge, basically the same as what you will get with an LGB.
> 
> All hail HIMARS..


I guess the russians managed to take down all the Himars rockets…..they just opted to use the bridge instead of their Sam-300. 

Another brilliant chess move from Putin.

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552201554907873280
> 
> 
> Smart from the Ukrainians, they decided to attack the width of the bridge instead of the entire length. And it proves how impressive HIMARS accuracy is.


An invasion army needs constant supply of fuel, foods, water, ammo, everything even toilet paper. Huge amount every day. If Russians are cut off, bridges destroyed, they will starve either to death or must retreat.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552291725821067264

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## Viet

100 Haubitze
That’s massive.
The Russians have nowhere to hide.






Die "Panzerhaubitze 2000" kann bis zu 40 Kilometer weit schießen.









Ukraine kauft 100 Panzerhaubitzen bei KMW


Im April fragt Kiew beim Rüstungshersteller Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) an, ob man die "Panzerhaubitze 2000" erwerben könne. Im Juli kommt laut einem Bericht grünes Licht aus dem Wirtschaftsministerium. Der Deal würde eine enorme Aufstockung des bisher gelieferten Waffenvolumens bedeuten.




amp.n-tv.de

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## Lehrasap

MyNameAintJeff said:


> Iran is for Iranians, and not for anyone else.
> EU nations have committed national suicide by opening their borders to everyone who came, and even giving incentives for people to come.
> Today European natives have become minorities in many of their own cities. Some Europeans have woken up to this fact and are trying to fight back, but it's already too late.



This is another matter, and it can be reformed. But no one can argue behind the Humanitarian Intention of the present Western public, who are at least trying to care for Human Rights.

But issue here is that people who support the dictatorships of China and Iran come here and want to lecture the Western public about the Human rights.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552277485659750400


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## 925boy

Viet said:


> 100 Haubitze
> That’s massive.


Until they arrive in Ukraine territory, its all ON PAPER.

Germany will most likely not supply all 100 SPH, especially if Germany dont want to use firewood this winter to keep their homes and factories warm...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552321433967149056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552318094344863744

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552307699576197122

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## Viet

925boy said:


> Until they arrive in Ukraine territory, its all ON PAPER.
> 
> Germany will most likely not supply all 100 SPH, especially if Germany dont want to use firewood this winter to keep their homes and factories warm...


You are clueless. Thanks to global warming there isn’t a hard winter anymore in Germany. It will be as warm as in tropical Vietnam. This week 33 Celsius. You laugh, firewood is a very good choice in winter. Just in case. I don’t think we need it. Putin can drink all gas himself he produces.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552279432466923520


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## kingQamaR

HIMARS has now verifiably destroyed 36 Russian ammo dumps, 12 HWs and 8 oil depots since it arrived in Ukraine last month. Now the Russian army is being cut off from supplies around Kherson as the bridges are damaged or destroyed and the rail line from Melitopol is cut

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## 925boy

Viet said:


> You are clueless.


You projecting??


Viet said:


> Thanks to global warming there isn’t a hard winter anymore in Germany.


Then why is Germany and other EU countries tracking their stored gas reserves so much?


Viet said:


> It will be as warm as in tropical Vietnam.


You trolling or just clueless?


Viet said:


> This week 33 Celsius.


lmao


Viet said:


> You laugh, firewood is a very good choice in winter.


in 3rd world Vietnam or 1st world Germany?


Viet said:


> Just in case. I don’t think we need it.


You dont, but Germany does.


Viet said:


> Putin can drink all gas himself he produces.


why would he do that when so many countries want to buy it like China? smh

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## Akritas

kingQamaR said:


> HIMARS has now verifiably destroyed 36 Russian ammo dumps, 12 HWs and 8 oil depots since it arrived in Ukraine last month. Now the Russian army is being cut off from supplies around Kherson as the bridges are damaged or destroyed and the rail line from Melitopol is cut


Where to see when the Ukrainians finally learn to use the PzH 2000,what damage will it do to the Russian forces, a howitzer that in burst mode it can fire 3 rounds in 9 seconds, 10 rounds in 56 seconds, and can—depending on barrel heating—fire between 10 and 13 rounds per minute continuousl!!!

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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Lehrasap said:


> You seriously want to be corrected that we are not living in the past century, and the present people of European countries are not responsible of what happened in the past, where all were busy in killing others.
> 
> The present people of EU countries are not bound to give asylum to refugees under any law.
> 
> And if they are indeed giving asylum today, then it is only and only on the basis of humanity.
> 
> Look at Iran and all other Muslims countries.
> How Afghan refugees are considered as 2nd class citizens in Iran.
> How Afghans are not even able to get the citizenship of Iran despite living for decades there.
> How Afghans are not even able to marry any Iranian (especially women) like a normal Iranian can marry.
> 
> Afghans in EU countries have far more rights as compared to the so-called Islamic Republic of Iran.
> 
> And then come such people like you from Iran and other such dictatorships with low records of human rights, and try to criticize the human friendly people of EU countries of today, who make sacrifices in order to give asylum to refugees and to give them equal human rights.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the peak of stupidity. You have no problems when China backs up the Myanmar Army today, but you have problem when China has to stop Myanmar's Army from the massacre of Rohingya.
> 
> China Pledges Support for Myanmar’s Junta, ‘No Matter How the Situation ChanGoran?​


Listen 'sap!

Open a new thread and post all your partisan bull... over there... maybe you do have something to say other than wasting bandwidth or hot air.

You seriously want to peddle humanitarianism of folks boasting latest and most effective methods of killing other human beings on industrial scale... controlling through the finesse of mechanisms built over past centuries to coerce and intimidate them into doing their bidding before going kinetic on them... 

You got depth? Reveal it!

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## ZeGerman

Lehrasap said:


> This is another matter, and it can be reformed. But no one can argue behind the Humanitarian Intention of the present Western public, who are at least trying to care for Human Rights.
> 
> But issue here is that people who support the dictatorships of China and Iran come here and want to lecture the Western public about the Human rights.


This. Countries with migration laws so severe only our extreme, racist right, has in its program…coming here to lecture how “kind” they are in comparison to the west. 

Anyway. I said what needed to be said on the matter.

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## 925boy

gambit said:


> That is true. So always take the opposite of the US military. Victory against the US military is assured.


Ok, lets assume you are correct- can you point me to the most recent war in modern times the US military actually won?

Cuz if you cant, that means i'm right.

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## QWECXZ

With recent advances of the Russian army, Battle of Bakhmut will start soon.
Another Lysychansk situation for Ukraine.

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## aziqbal

QWECXZ said:


> With recent advances of the Russian army, Battle of Bakhmut will start soon.
> Another Lysychansk situation for Ukraine.




I think they took the thermal power station today 

the Seversk-Bakhmut line has been fortified for last 8 years with many underground tunnels 

it will take few weeks of heavy artillery to soften up the targets and its held well until now as it has tied the Russians down for weeks 

however Russia being Russia the slow steamroller will continue the march forward and if they can break this line nothing lies in their way

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## QWECXZ

aziqbal said:


> I think they took the thermal power station today
> 
> the Seversk-Bakhmut line has been fortified for last 8 years with many underground tunnels
> 
> it will take few weeks of heavy artillery to soften up the targets and its held well until now as it has tied the Russians down for weeks
> 
> however Russia being Russia the slow steamroller will continue the march forward and if they can break this line nothing lies in their way


If you're talking about Vuhleris'k thermal plant, they took it yesterday.

They said the same thing about the fortification of Lysychansk. And yet Russia took Lysychansk in a week.

I think Russia will completely occupy and secure Donetsk, Luhansk and Kherson oblasts before October. And then they will focus on Odessa and Kharkov.

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## Ali_Baba

*Putin's troops shoot down their OWN helicopter in Kherson after it mistakenly attacked them*









Putin's troops shoot down their OWN helicopter in Ukraine


The Ka-52 'Alligator' helicopter (pictured, file image), which costs an estimated £12million, was gunned down in Kherson, Ukraine's General Staff revealed.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Viet

925boy said:


> You projecting??
> 
> Then why is Germany and other EU countries tracking their stored gas reserves so much?
> 
> You trolling or just clueless?
> 
> lmao
> 
> in 3rd world Vietnam or 1st world Germany?
> 
> You dont, but Germany does.
> 
> why would he do that when so many countries want to buy it like China? smh


That’s why I say you are clueless. The gas storage is not for households but primarily reserved for the industrial sectors: chemicals, glas, fertilizer, petroleum, etc. Putin laughing when he heard the people in Germany heat their homes with firewood. There is something he doesn’t know: Pelettheizung.
The woods preferably rubbish cheap woods are pressed in small particles that will be burned with high efficiency (96 percent). That’s the standard in houses nowadays where you get warm water and central heating.


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## A.P. Richelieu




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## NotSure

Trolol. 


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/w9k2uo

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## The SC




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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552195574727843840

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552066930739126272

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552405514897821697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552401437975617544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552421612305235969

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552399404438638603

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552337684223475712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552261420439552005

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552392913958670338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552048485863755782

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552295924856225794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552274892753698816

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552420036115156992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552366210003730434

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552417375697485825


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552422193400782848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552389525296513024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552373792307044355

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552368785008492544

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552414776126586880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552390605661421568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552339373177425920


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552293572950589440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552289522540593153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552284422979944448

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552440012779978752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552429881446768641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552393306612678663

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552358571932884992

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552406977669627905
Russian losses now over 4,900 and quickly approaching 5,000

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552357543208517634

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## kingQamaR

Well the Pentagon, UK MOD, independent thinktanks like ISW, independent military researchers and those who document military equipment all agree that Russia is about to see a Ukrainian offensive around Kherson, with most of its force tied down in the East and HIMARS devastating its supply and command structure. and here's the kicker: russian military bloggers, separatist command, russian media support that idea.

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> Until they arrive in Ukraine territory, its all ON PAPER.
> 
> Germany will most likely not supply all 100 SPH, especially if Germany dont want to use firewood this winter to keep their homes and factories warm...


They do have nuclear and coal power plants that can be brought back online, they be fine but thanks for your concern

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## kingQamaR

RoadAmerica said:


> They do have nuclear and coal power plants that can be brought back online, they be fine but thanks for your concern



Once nuclear taken off line they will require complete renovation to safely bring them back online

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## RoadAmerica

kingQamaR said:


> Once nuclear taken off line they will require complete renovation to safely bring them back online


Very true and not impossible, plenty of coal as well

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## Viet

RoadAmerica said:


> They do have nuclear and coal power plants that can be brought back online, they be fine but thanks for your concern


Standard practice by Russian hooligans

Russia attacks Ukraine installed power capacity, because Ukraine wants to export power surpluses to EU. Half is nuclear, the rest is coal and other fossil fuel. Surplus because Ukraine industrial production is in ruin. Russia troops seized 6 power plants.

Russia attacks Odesa because Ukraine wants to export grains. Hunger, famine is a welcome tool in Moscow.

Putin just wants to steal power and grains from Ukraine. Nothing else.

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## Oldman1

Corax said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I mean. The US lost in Vietnam when they were up against an adversary supported by an apposing superpower, the Soviets suffered the same fate in Afghanistan. But you fail to recognise that the US lost in Iraq and Afghanistan even in the absence of an apposing superpower supporting the Iraqis and Afghans. Oh sure, the US may have inflicted immense military force on the Iraqis and Afghans and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in the process, much like the Soviets and North Vietnamese, but the military is merely an extension of policy, and that's what you Americans can't seem to understand. Iraq is pretty much in the control of Iran, and Afghanistan has returned to Taliban rule and a proxy for Pakistan. So what "victory" did the the US military achieve in either of these two theatres? As for Ukraine, that's little evidence to suggest the token US and NATO support is having much affect on the Russian main political objective of their military campaign, i.e. the liberation of mostly ethnic Russians in the Eastern part of Ukraine. Oh sure, you'll inflict plenty of pain on the Russians, but at what economic and political cost? This is what you people don't see to understand.
> 
> You also fail to recognise the immense losses NATO and the US would suffer in a potential conflict with Russia in Europe... They're not the Taliban with vintage Lee Enfield rifles. Lucky for you your generals and politicians recognise this fact, otherwise they would have directly intervened by now.


Have to remember that the Soviet Afghan war collapsed the Soviet Union, and its doing the same for the Russians as well. You called that little evidence but you see whats happening in just few months of war compared to 10 years in Afghanistan when the Russians were there. The cost is worth it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal



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## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552196680241627137


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552291725821067264


I be surprise if they can delivered the first before the end of the year.


----------



## gambit

925boy said:


> Ok, lets assume you are correct- can you point me to the most recent war in modern times the US military actually won?
> 
> Cuz if you cant, that means i'm right.


You do not need to convince anyone here. You need to convince the military. Tell them that the US military have *NEVER* won a war. Then see how hard they laugh at you.

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## Battlion25

gambit said:


> You do not need to convince anyone here. You need to convince the military. Tell them that the US military have *NEVER* won a war. Then see how hard they laugh at you.



Coming from an unbiased Angle the Americans have won many wars.. World war 2 all tho partially shared with soviet union but nontheless a huge win plus twice against Iraq and specially the latest one 2003 (Contrary to what some might say but that war was an absolute US victory) They got stalemate in the Korean war and Lost in Vietnam and Afghanistan.. Won against the Brits in their struggle for freedom back in their early years. Including the successful US invasion of Panama.

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


>


That's really interesting choice of cammo, that's warm woodland hunting cammo. Looks like Russia is running out of uniforms for its allies in Donbass.


----------



## sammuel

RescueRanger said:


> That's really interesting choice of cammo, that's warm woodland hunting cammo. Looks like Russia is running out of uniforms for its allies in Donbass.



This one is for hiding in strawberry fields.

~

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## RescueRanger

sammuel said:


> This one is for hiding in strawberry fields.
> 
> ~


Lol 🤣


----------



## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552357543208517634


Unlike for russia…savagely annexing land is kinda out of fashion in europe.

“How one is, how one expects others to act” to loosely translate a dutch saying.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine southern offensive making progress
the 49th russian army is cut off by supplies and encirled at Cherson.

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## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> Unlike for russia…savagely annexing land is kinda out of fashion in europe.
> 
> “How one is, how one expects others to act” to loosely translate a dutch saying.


This is coming from the German lol

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552195574727843840


You are jealous. Zelenskki spouse is not only beautiful she is smart. She asks for weapons and she gets it. Looks how many weapons Ukraine gets recently. Where is Putin‘s spouse? Does he have any?

Ukraine receives 100 Haubitze plus 30,000 artillery shells for free from Germany. The faster Ukraine wins the war the less people will die.

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552195574727843840


So is Putin riding a horse and wresting a bear, get a grip and look in the mirror.


----------



## Vergennes

Russians sending their minorities to get killed in high numbers in Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552632210779414530


----------



## Type59

Battlion25 said:


> Coming from an unbiased Angle the Americans have won many wars.. World war 2 all tho partially shared with soviet union but nontheless a huge win plus twice against Iraq and specially the latest one 2003 (Contrary to what some might say but that war was an absolute US victory) They got stalemate in the Korean war and Lost in Vietnam and Afghanistan.. Won against the Brits in their struggle for freedom back in their early years. Including the successful US invasion of Panama.



In Iraq, the picture is more mixed. US is continuously engaged in country since GW1. The time and resources could have been used elsewhere, especially on domestic issues. Remember Trump victory was due to disillusion in US by its citizens and this process will repeat itself in 2022 mid term elections. Biden administration is gonna be a lame duck.


----------



## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> Ukraine southern offensive making progress
> the 49th russian army is cut off by supplies and encirled at Cherson.
> 
> 
> View attachment 865806



If they can counter attack then Russia definitely has issues of man power and equiptment.


----------



## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552195574727843840


lol that's rich, consider Comrade Putin had NOT ONCE visit the troop in Ukraine or any part near the frontline. While thousands of Russian is dying, but then hey, they are minority, that's alright.

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## 925boy

gambit said:


> You do not need to convince anyone here. You need to convince the military. Tell them that the US military have *NEVER* won a war. Then see how hard they laugh at you.


thanks for not answering my question, and then you'll want to be seen as smart on PDF, good luck!



RoadAmerica said:


> They do have nuclear and coal power plants that can be brought back online, they be fine but thanks for your concern


Welcome to America and NATO's stupid era! seriously.

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## gambit

925boy said:


> thanks for not answering my question, and then you'll want to be seen as smart on PDF, good luck!
> 
> 
> Welcome to America and NATO's stupid era! seriously.


As you wish: *NO*, the US military *NEVER* won a war. Repeat: *NEVER*.


----------



## jhungary

Type59 said:


> Perfect example why Americans are so angry and shoot up fellow Americans. Why don't you use your training and anger in defeating gang violence and narco terrorism. Bunch of pussies, you second amendment types, more of a threat to your partner and family
> 
> My prayers have been answered, 'Saint Javelin" will become Hizbul Javelin, in few years time. Hopefully Iranians will get examples of starstreak manpad.


lol, I like how your reply have nothing to do with what I said, instead it is just some random rant of 2A right.

and if Iran have to copy Javelin, a 1980s technology, Or 1990s tech like Starstreak then I guess all are not right in Iran.

Newsflash, we send them these weapons because we don't care if Russian (Or anyone hostile to us) have their hand on it, I am pretty sure they have a few hundred Javelin missile or a few CLU.


----------



## 925boy

RoadAmerica said:


> Very true and not impossible, plenty of coal as well


coal is horrible for the environment, so unsustainable for a country that cares about the global climate. Typical American is ignorant of things like climate change.



gambit said:


> As you wish: *NO*, the US military *NEVER* won a war. Repeat: *NEVER*.


can you not comprehend or is this just a tactic to avoid being wrong? I asked you to name which war US won IN MODERN TIMES, not in eternity...explains why US cant win any wars anymore- FIGHTS with emotions and little strategy.

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## Viet

925boy said:


> coal is horrible for the environment, so unsustainable for a country that cares about the global climate. Typical American is ignorant of things like climate change.
> 
> 
> can you not comprehend or is this just a tactic to avoid being wrong? I asked you to name which war US won IN MODERN TIMES, not in eternity...explains why US cant win any wars anymore- FIGHTS with emotions and little strategy.


You are too shortsighted too narrow minded. Winning a war is not about killing as much people as possible. Who won a war since end of WW2? Hardly any country. Ok few rare cases. The US won the Cold War. Ussr collapsed. All former Soviet allies are now in US camp. That’s biggest US victory.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> lol, I like how your reply have nothing to do with what I said, instead it is just some random rant of 2A right.
> 
> and if Iran have to copy Javelin, a 1980s technology, Or 1990s tech like Starstreak then I guess all are not right in Iran.
> 
> Newsflash, we send them these weapons because we don't care if Russian (Or anyone hostile to us) have their hand on it, I am pretty sure they have a few hundred Javelin missile or a few CLU.


FGM-148F production started 2020
FGM-148E production started in 2017
FGM-148c production started in 2000

by the way javelin produced in 1996 not 1980
now the question is which version you send to Ukraine ?
i say by the number you sent probably all

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552729863697866753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552741441436270594

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## aziqbal

Russia moving at 1km per day

but they are moving forward

Russia is slowly grinding forward

no matter what they throw at Russia, at the end of the day Russia will win this war

the juggernaut is the largest nation on earth

because they know how to take and hold land

if Russian break the road between Soversk and Bakhmut the fight is over for Ukraine

they have almost reached the road


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552458949558927361

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552756805406789632


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552773737858191361

This Russian Nazi was filmed castrating a Ukrainian POW, a clear war crime.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

RoadAmerica said:


> So is Putin riding a horse and wresting a bear, get a grip and look in the mirror.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552795619026149377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552794624296734720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552789514980134912

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552756805406789632




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552773371200405504


Vergennes said:


> Russians sending their minorities to get killed in high numbers in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552632210779414530





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552792346458300423

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552729863697866753
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552741441436270594





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552772960645152777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552772885542047745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552645738160611329


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552756805406789632






https://twitter.com/cpimentel986/status/1552758825924575242


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552756802713944064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552772689164746753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552747866657005568

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552744108061491200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552746887954014210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552731883108270081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552707829617786880

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552703761809801223

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552701421988069380

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552678640902602753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552678719910776832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552646535137165313

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552806146989166592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552715605924618249


----------



## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> coal is horrible for the environment, so unsustainable for a country that cares about the global climate. Typical American is ignorant of things like climate change.
> 
> 
> can you not comprehend or is this just a tactic to avoid being wrong? I asked you to name which war US won IN MODERN TIMES, not in eternity...explains why US cant win any wars anymore- FIGHTS with emotions and little strategy.


There’s been clean coal for over 20 years, multi million dollar scrubbers are standard in the US. The green energy is a farce and the inputs are far worse for the environment, please read up a little



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552795619026149377
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552794624296734720
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552789514980134912


What’s your point, one person in Ethiopia likes Putin, irrelevant 🤷🏿‍♂️


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> FGM-148F production started 2020
> FGM-148E production started in 2017
> FGM-148c production started in 2000
> 
> by the way javelin produced in 1996 not 1980
> now the question is which version you send to Ukraine ?
> i say by the number you sent probably all


Javelin was designed in the 1989, it entered service in 1994. 

When was a particular tranche produce is not really the matter. This is not a fighter aircraft, you don't have major upgrade, even if we are talking about Fighter Jet, just because the F-16A Block 10 Taiwan was using was produced in year 2000 does not make it 2000 tech, it would still be the same plane that was used in 1980s.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552807438641946624
HIMARS strike this evening

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552751901317423104

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## Viet

Germany is poised to deliver Iris-t to Ukraine by September. The German made system will provide air cover over a big city like Kiew. 









Ukraine: Flugabwehrsystem Iris-T soll noch 2022 geliefert werden | NOZ


Ein hochmoderne Flugabwehrsystem Iris-T soll laut Bundesregierung noch vor dem Jahreswechsel in die Ukraine geliefert werden. Aber es gibt Probleme.




www.noz.de










FOTO: WOLFGANG KUMM

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## Viet

Ah cool

Zelensky has long promoted to put Russia on international terror list.
Now the US congress is moving ahead with a motion. If going thru Russia will probably lose the seat in the UN Security Council.






Bild vergrößern
Selenskyj ehrt im Parlament Militärangehörige (28. Juli 2022)

Foto:
IMAGO/Ukrainian Presidential Press Off / IMAGO/ZUMA Wire

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## Oldman1

aziqbal said:


> Russia moving at 1km per day
> 
> but they are moving forward
> 
> Russia is slowly grinding forward
> 
> no matter what they throw at Russia, at the end of the day Russia will win this war
> 
> the juggernaut is the largest nation on earth
> 
> because they know how to take and hold land
> 
> if Russian break the road between Soversk and Bakhmut the fight is over for Ukraine
> 
> they have almost reached the road
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552458949558927361


If they knew how to take and hold land, why they pull out of Kiev and Kharkiv regions as well as in Kherson region along with Snake Island?

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Ah cool
> 
> Zelensky has long promoted to put Russia on international terror list.
> Now the US congress is moving ahead with a motion. If going thru Russia will probably lose the seat in the UN Security Council.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Selenskyj ehrt im Parlament Militärangehörige (28. Juli 2022)
> 
> Foto:
> IMAGO/Ukrainian Presidential Press Off / IMAGO/ZUMA Wire


Russia will veto it. Lololol. You can't just remove a P5 dude. Wake up. The biggest terrorist state is US, how many countries did it invade? And yet you see anyone removing them? Gosh, wake up will you.

Zelensky is a Jewish comedian, a friggin COMEDIAN. C O M E D I A N, he is good at showmanship like vogue photo sessions and shit like that, not strategic calculations like Putin. If he was smart, Ukraine wouldn't be in today's shit. The only reason he is alive is his puppet masters in the US and the Jewish cabal are supporting him

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Javelin was designed in the 1989, it entered service in 1994.
> 
> When was a particular tranche produce is not really the matter. This is not a fighter aircraft, you don't have major upgrade, even if we are talking about Fighter Jet, just because the F-16A Block 10 Taiwan was using was produced in year 2000 does not make it 2000 tech, it would still be the same plane that was used in 1980s.


well , good to knew there is no difference between PAC-1 and Pac-3 or F-15A vs F15-SE


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Russia will veto it. Lololol. You can't just remove a P5 dude. Wake up. The biggest terrorist state is US, how many countries did it invade? And yet you see anyone removing them? Gosh, wake up will you.
> 
> Zelensky is a Jewish comedian, a friggin COMEDIAN. C O M E D I A N, he is good at showmanship like vogue photo sessions and shit like that, not strategic calculations like Putin. If he was smart, Ukraine wouldn't be in today's shit. The only reason he is alive is his puppet masters in the US and the Jewish cabal are supporting him


What’s about Xi jumping? He was a peasant, now communist leader. Good CV. Ok Zelinskki is a smart comedian. He is smarter than Putin, an ex spy.
Russia can certainly be removed from the UN. If the Russians don’t go the other participants just don’t attend where Russia is. You see it at recent meetings in the UN, G20, etc. meetings.


----------



## Soldier35

Footage of the destruction by a Russian kamikaze drone of the Ukrainian control signal relay station for the Ukrainian Bayraktar TB2 UAVs.






Footage of the counter-battery fight of the Russian militia in Ukraine has been published. The artillery crew uses the Soviet 152-mm gun 2A36 "Hyacinth-B". Despite its age, and the gun was developed in 1971, it is the longest-range towed gun of the Russian armies. The firing range of the gun is from 28 to 33 km, according to some reports up to 40 km with an active-rocket projectile. The shell on the "Hyacinth" is double-acting, it was originally installed as a fragmentation, but it can be easily converted to a high-explosive action






The Ukrainian army received the first six British Stormer HVM air defense systems. So far, there is no video of the air defense system, but the first photos have already appeared. The Stormer HVM air defense system was developed in the eighties on the basis of the FV4333 Stormer armored personnel carrier and adopted by England in 1997. The air defense system has an optical-electronic target search station and does not have its own radar. The armament of the air defense system, 8 modified Starstreak MANPADS, which are guided by a laser beam.

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## Vergennes

Oldman1 said:


> If they knew how to take and hold land, why they pull out of Kiev and Kharkiv regions as well as in Kherson region along with Snake Island?



Well obviously western haters but western living like @Hassan Al-Somal are posting such great and massive advances of the Russian army,I thought they captured Kiev,Kharkiv or something not some half of a little random settlement in the Donbass.

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## NotSure

So Kiev started to kill their own soldiers held by the Russians as POW. Warning, burned corpses:

https://****/asbmil/3395


https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/388764864/



This is the regime you are supporting here.

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## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


> So Kiev started to kill their own soldiers held by the Russians as POW. Warning, burned corpses:
> 
> https://****/asbmil/3395
> 
> 
> https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/388764864/
> 
> 
> 
> This is the regime you are supporting here.


So far we have gotten.

HIMARs are all going to be destroyed before reaching the frontline! 

Then we got

HIMARs are going to be hunted by our helicoptere/drones/rockets

Then

HIMARs rockets are all intercepted by superior SAM-300

And now

HIMARs is hitting their own troops/prisoners.

I think i will take this with a grain of salt…

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> What’s about Xi jumping? He was a peasant, now communist leader. Good CV. Ok Zelinskki is a smart comedian. He is smarter than Putin, an ex spy.
> Russia can certainly be removed from the UN. If the Russians don’t go the other participants just don’t attend where Russia is. You see it at recent meetings in the UN, G20, etc. meetings.


Xi Jinping was an engineer, and most politburo members are technocrats unlike US which is lawyer based. Well if you think a comedian is smarter than a highly trained ex kgb officer, be my guest. 

If Russia can be removed, then US should've been removed decades ago. Boy, p5 can only be inherited and is immune, not even NK can be removed dumbass.



ZeGerman said:


> So far we have gotten.
> 
> HIMARs are all going to be destroyed before reaching the frontline!
> 
> Then we got
> 
> HIMARs are going to be hunted by our helicoptere/drones/rockets
> 
> Then
> 
> HIMARs rockets are all intercepted by superior SAM-300
> 
> And now
> 
> HIMARs is hitting their own troops/prisoners.
> 
> I think i will take this with a grain of salt…


HIMARS is a friggin MRLS, its like saying giving Russia SY400 is enough to win the war.


----------



## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> Xi Jinping was an engineer, and most politburo members are technocrats unlike US which is lawyer based. Well if you think a comedian is smarter than a highly trained ex kgb officer, be my guest.
> 
> If Russia can be removed, then US should've been removed decades ago. Boy, p5 can only be inherited and is immune, not even NK can be removed dumbass.
> 
> 
> HIMARS is a friggin MRLS, its like saying giving Russia SY400 is enough to win the war.


Trouble reading? 
I did not say Himars is enough to win the war…but it sure is troubling enough for russian twitters to rush to post so much bullshit about it apparently. 

this and the other mobile and accurate artillery is exactly what the ukranians need to start to level the playing field against that mass of russian artillery.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552997217149272064


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553010957584154626

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552944748658319361


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553033768927215618
The Russian Nazis

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## SalarHaqq

Han Patriot said:


> If Russia can be removed, then US should've been removed decades ago. Boy, p5 can only be inherited and is immune, not even NK can be removed dumbass.



Can't Mossad the Assad, as the saying goes. Let alone a giant like Russia and its President.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553035542136328193


----------



## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> Trouble reading?
> I did not say Himars is enough to win the war…but it sure is troubling enough for russian twitters to rush to post so much bullshit about it apparently.
> 
> this and the other mobile and accurate artillery is exactly what the ukranians need to start to level the playing field against that mass of russian artillery.


Yah you sure sounded like HIMARS m777 were like some sort of magic wand to save Ukraine. F35 is a magic wand, B2, blheck even b52, not a dozen of artillery or MRLS.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553033745955016704

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## F-22Raptor

Han Patriot said:


> Yah you sure sounded like HIMARS m777 were like some sort of magic wand to save Ukraine. F35 is a magic wand, B2, blheck even b52, not a dozen of artillery or MRLS.




HIMARS have done so much damage to C2 nodes, ammo depots, and logistics that the Russians haven't moved in almost a month.

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## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> Yah you sure sounded like HIMARS m777 were like some sort of magic wand to save Ukraine. F35 is a magic wand, B2, blheck even b52, not a dozen of artillery or MRLS.


Quote me on that? 


But even 16 himars can do quite the damage if left uncontested and given good intel and targets considering their rate of fire. A lot of ammunition was given. 

Apart from that we have now a 
100 M777
28 krab
60 M109 MLRS
20 panzerhaubitze
36 L119

Basically its starting to add up.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553035542136328193


And russians are having to do the same yet towards Kherson. It is quite interesting to see how this will unfold. Kherson is the bigger price i would say. 

All the luck to ukraine 🇺🇦

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552916121057218560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552922814981836800

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552930226350563330

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## The SC

The Russian Defense Ministry accuses the Ukrainian forces of bombing a detention center for Ukrainian prisoners of war from the Azov forces, killing and wounding dozens of them..





Urgent withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from this region and Russian defense clarifies






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553005591089618944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553005148733161472

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Xi Jinping was an engineer, and most politburo members are technocrats unlike US which is lawyer based. Well if you think a comedian is smarter than a highly trained ex kgb officer, be my guest.
> 
> If Russia can be removed, then US should've been removed decades ago. Boy, p5 can only be inherited and is immune, not even NK can be removed dumbass.
> 
> 
> HIMARS is a friggin MRLS, its like saying giving Russia SY400 is enough to win the war.


Zelinskki is a Jew and you know they are chosen people. They will win this war I have no doubt. Ukraine has the backing of 50 countries. Money, weapons, unlimited. How many countries back Russia Putin? Except warm words from Belarus, Turkey, China: zero. Even Kasachstan says it will never recognize the separatists, never recognize any illegal occupation by Russia. Kasachstan will deliver fuel to EU. Putin just learns to be a spy. He has zero knowledge in economics, diplomacy, strategic. He ist good in killing all political opponents. Nothing else.

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## Nuclear Clown

NotSure said:


> So Kiev started to kill their own soldiers held by the Russians as POW. Warning, burned corpses:
> https://****/asbmil/3395
> 
> 
> https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/388764864/
> 
> 
> This is the regime you are supporting here.





The SC said:


> The Russian Defense Ministry accuses the Ukrainian forces of bombing a detention center for Ukrainian prisoners of war from the Azov forces, killing and wounding dozens of them..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Urgent withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from this region and Russian defense clarifies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553005591089618944
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553005148733161472


Such burnt corpses are typical of Russian TOS-1 thermobaric MLRS which has rather short range and that is listed as a "flame thrower" by RosoboronExport. AFAIK, HiMARS or M270 have no such incendiary/fuel-air capability.

Strangely, the Russians proffer such accusations at the same time one of their wardens shows the true face of Russian custody of Ukrainian POWs : torture, mutilation, murder...: How convenient : dead men tell no tales, these POWs won't be able to testify at the ICC about CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY in Russian custody...


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552773737858191361This Russian Nazi was filmed castrating a Ukrainian POW, a clear war crime.


This is no castration, it's emasculation.
I enjoin anyone NOT to watch the video unless being ready to have to puke: even ISIS didn't went that far, even the sickest sadistic horror movies of the likes of "Hostel" too

*Geolocation of Russian torture/extermination camp where they murder POWs: *_Severodonetsk, Luhansk Oblast [48.937421, 38.459403]_

*Russian social media are appalling*
Many are simply boasting about such barbaric acts.

*For all Putin fanboys in oppressing democracies with dirty human rights and even gay mariage: You're officially invited to move to Russia! Watch this promotional video clip! Looks really great! *

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552906293026988033Don't wait! Winter is coming! Moreover, we can do without you...

Edit:
The monster has been identified! His name is Vitally Aroshanov







No fuss here : the perpetrator has been clearly identified through social media. Vitaliy Aroshanov surely has already his Interpol "red notice" and ICC warrant filled, as well as other organisations. Thanks to his own videos of barbarian acts, one thing for sure, his case will be closed in less than 15 minutes in any tribunal, but I must admit I hope him to face another kind of justice: I'm not willing to pay taxes to keep him into custody at the Hague's 4 stars prison for the next 30-50 years.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552925667003711494

M1 Abrams arriving in Poland

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## zartosht

Hack-Hook said:


> FGM-148F production started 2020
> FGM-148E production started in 2017
> FGM-148c production started in 2000
> 
> by the way javelin produced in 1996 not 1980
> now the question is which version you send to Ukraine ?
> i say by the number you sent probably all



You are dead wrong.

Humble general jhungary had access to the classified prototype versions before the US military, so hes just speaking from personal experience

These 80s tech are beneath jhungary… he only gets his hands dirty with 22 century weaponry

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553059892713357312


Vergennes said:


> Well obviously western haters but western living like @Hassan Al-Somal are posting such great and massive advances of the Russian army,I thought they captured Kiev,Kharkiv or something not some half of a little random settlement in the Donbass.




Bish, I live in my country.

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## S10

Viet said:


> Zelinskki is a Jew and you know they are chosen people. They will win this war I have no doubt. Ukraine has the backing of 50 countries. Money, weapons, unlimited. How many countries back Russia Putin? Except warm words from Belarus, Turkey, China: zero. Even Kasachstan says it will never recognize the separatists, never recognize any illegal occupation by Russia. Kasachstan will deliver fuel to EU. Putin just learns to be a spy. He has zero knowledge in economics, diplomacy, strategic. He ist good in killing all political opponents. Nothing else.


Jews are the chosen people? By who? Some bullshit artist?

Ukraine is going to turn into a landlock rump state by this time next year.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> HIMARS have done so much damage to C2 nodes, ammo depots, and logistics that the Russians haven't moved in almost a month.




They only hit civilian infrastructure and kill unarmed people including Ukrainian prisoners of war. Stop spreading fake news.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552944414523359234

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552912558222413824


----------



## Viet

S10 said:


> Jews are the chosen people? By who? Some bullshit artist?
> 
> Ukraine is going to turn into a landlock rump state by this time next year.


You don’t know? They are God chosen people.
How can the Russians win this war? By what means? By this time next year Putin will run out of soldiers, weapons, tanks. Even now Putin recruits prisoners, criminals, convicts.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> Zelinskki is a Jew and you know they are chosen people. They will win this war I have no doubt. Ukraine has the backing of 50 countries. Money, weapons, unlimited. How many countries back Russia Putin? Except warm words from Belarus, Turkey, China: zero. Even Kasachstan says it will never recognize the separatists, never recognize any illegal occupation by Russia. Kasachstan will deliver fuel to EU. Putin just learns to be a spy. He has zero knowledge in economics, diplomacy, strategic. He ist good in killing all political opponents. Nothing else.




The most retarded comment that I've ever read in PDF. This one definitely takes the cup when it comes to the most dogshit comment ever posted in this forum.

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The most retarded comment that I've ever read in PDF. This one definitely takes the cup when it comes to the most dogshit comment ever posted in this forum.


Ah come you just angry. Prove what I say is wrong! You can’t.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553047699821170689


----------



## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553033745955016704


Actually the German Vicekanzler resposible for energy thinks otherwise:









German econ minister: Putting Nord Stream 2 online not an option


Putting the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline into operation was not an option as this would only play into the hands of Russian President Vladimir Putin, the German economy minister said on Friday.




www.reuters.com





The EU Gas storage for Winter is at 68% and it`s growing:



Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552955439435988992

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553079214835994624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553079216794738690

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553079749219696641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553080305296236545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553080469905969160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553081030722068482

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553081442636382211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553081839132237829

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553082886475096066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553083464945221632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553084298873507840

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## Viet

end of Russia terror bombings in sight

Ukraine wants 11x modern missile defense Iris-T made by Diehl defence.

That’s good for 11x big cities in Ukraine.

The question is how fast can the German company make them? Maybe if they can work in 3-day-shifts.












__





Ukraine wants to buy 11 German-made IRIS-T SLM air defense missile systems | Defense News July 2022 Global Security army industry | Defense Security global news industry army year 2022 | Archive News year


Ukraine would be interested in acquiring eleven German-made Iris-T SLM air defense missile systems which could be partly financed by Germany




www.armyrecognition.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552975242385031169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552974278026575873

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553029148595179521


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553086032484175872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553086033834672130

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553086035084681220

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553086036443631617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553086037764751361

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## The SC




----------



## S10

Viet said:


> You don’t know? They are God chosen people.
> How can the Russians win this war? By what means? By this time next year Putin will run out of soldiers, weapons, tanks. Even now Putin recruits prisoners, criminals, convicts.



God doesn't exist, and only idiots believe he would choose some shitlords as "his people" like you.

I've been hearing about this Russia running out of weapons and soldier thing for 4 months, and yet Ukraine is still losing ground. Tell me when Steinerchenko pull off that Kherson counteroffensive. In the mean while, go consult a doctor since I think you may have Agent Orange poisoning for believing these ridiculous shit.

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## SLY

Even the Western propaganda News channels are starting to admit Russia is winning


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553095513804865536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553108898394951683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553109065064099840

Russia has ruined its image for decades to come. The reality is that not only does the Russian military need to be defeated but the entire Russian society should be humiliated along the same lines as the Germans and Japanese were after WW2. Only then can Russian reform and become a prosperous society. 

The Russians are an embarrassment to human civilization.

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## aziqbal

Russia took today Vershyna and Semyhyria 

and the they are closing in slowly slowly breaking those Ukraine lines

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## The SC

The Ukrainian army counterattacked in Kherson and Nikolaev, and the Russian army exploited the counter attack to destroy two Ukrainian Brigades..


----------



## MeFishToo

aziqbal said:


> Russia took today Vershyna and Semyhyria
> 
> and the they are closing in slowly slowly breaking those Ukraine lines


Lets see what the mighty russians allegedly conquered today:

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## Nuclear Clown

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553079214835994624
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553079216794738690
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553079749219696641
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553080305296236545
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553080469905969160


*75,000 Russian casualties, US officials say: 
“We were informed that more than 75,000 Russians were either killed or injured, which is enormous,”* Elissa Slotkin, a Democratic House Representative who previously attended a secret US government briefing told CNN.
This is rather consistant with what Ukrainian MinDef published on 27th July, thus, I think they exaggerate a little about aircraft kills, but surely not with vehicles which are way more tightly monitored/verified/geolocated.





_*The interception by the Security Service of Ukraine confirms that the "shelling" of the Olenivska colony was carried out by the occupiers themselves*_


https://twitter.com/GeneralStaffUA/status/1553050391335559168


Now, considering the Orcs' absolute disrespect of ANY international conventions : torture and murder of POWs, concentration camps (called illustration camp), generalised attacks on non military targets, murders and torture of civilians, rapes, rapine, looting, forced "disappearance", children taken for adoption into Russia, etc etc... I truly ask myself if we shouldn't scrap some conventions... So... back to cluster ammos, napalm and sarin? After all, Orcs even used novichok in the UK in order to perpetrate murders, this proves their CW program is still "on"



SLY said:


> Even the Western propaganda News channels are starting to admit Russia is winning


Seriously, *Piers Morgan* ? He's the Brit Tucker Carlson! Do you sometimes check the seriousness of your sources???
This dude is a Tabloid guy! *The Sun*, *News of the World*, Rupert Murdoch's *NewsCorp*...
You know, you can as well point RT or Sputnik, in fact, you may even take Sputnik more seriously than any of Murdoch's tabloids, and you'll have a hard time being taken seriously by quoting Sputnik...
Do you know what _*tabloid "journalism"*_ is? So, now Tucker Carlson made of himself a global laughing stock, Russian trolls come out with another Rupert Murdoch's jumpin'jack, Piers Morgan? 
Seriously, Orcs' operations have stalled for near 2 months and the few advances were paid with tremendous losses for a few hundreds metres, with the addition of long range precision artillery like the HiMARS or the CAESAr (up to 80km with rocket boosted shells), arms depots and C2 (Command and Control) are being hit far behind the frontline at a point the WW2-styled rolling artillery barrage is falling apart, as the NASA's FIRMS (Fire Information for Resource Management System) clearly demonstrates a dramatic reduction in artillery strikes, now AFU has even launched a counter offensive

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Zelinskki is a Jew and you know they are chosen people. They will win this war I have no doubt. Ukraine has the backing of 50 countries. Money, weapons, unlimited. How many countries back Russia Putin? Except warm words from Belarus, Turkey, China: zero. Even Kasachstan says it will never recognize the separatists, never recognize any illegal occupation by Russia. Kasachstan will deliver fuel to EU. Putin just learns to be a spy. He has zero knowledge in economics, diplomacy, strategic. He ist good in killing all political opponents. Nothing else.


No doubt Jews have the cabal backing but winning? Ask the Nazis how many were gassed. I foresee another uprising to cleanse them. Warm words? China essentially bankroll Russia, without us buying their oil n gas, they would have been crushed. Well we have to help them anyway, NATO must be contained.



ZeGerman said:


> Quote me on that?
> 
> 
> But even 16 himars can do quite the damage if left uncontested and given good intel and targets considering their rate of fire. A lot of ammunition was given.
> 
> Apart from that we have now a
> 100 M777
> 28 krab
> 60 M109 MLRS
> 20 panzerhaubitze
> 36 L119
> 
> Basically its starting to add up.
> 
> 
> And russians are having to do the same yet towards Kherson. It is quite interesting to see how this will unfold. Kherson is the bigger price i would say.
> 
> All the luck to ukraine 🇺🇦


How many were destroyed? Lol, you don't hear much about m777 nowadays do you?



F-22Raptor said:


> HIMARS have done so much damage to C2 nodes, ammo depots, and logistics that the Russians haven't moved in almost a month.


Yah, HIMARS that HIMARS this. Before that it was bayraktst that bayraktst tht. All these are common weapons mass produced by China ok. Not some B2s or F35s or F22.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553136701345878017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553136519803805697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553136154857308160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553133501381214210

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> lol that's rich, consider Comrade Putin had NOT ONCE visit the troop in Ukraine or any part near the frontline. While thousands of Russian is dying, but then hey, they are minority, that's alright.





RoadAmerica said:


> So is Putin riding a horse and wresting a bear, get a grip and look in the mirror.





Viet said:


> You are jealous. Zelenskki spouse is not only beautiful she is smart. She asks for weapons and she gets it. Looks how many weapons Ukraine gets recently. Where is Putin‘s spouse? Does he have any?
> 
> Ukraine receives 100 Haubitze plus 30,000 artillery shells for free from Germany. The faster Ukraine wins the war the less people will die.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553049444077240320
Tucker Carlson is more informed than you, and he described the rat named Zelensky very well.


----------



## NotSure

oberschlesier said:


> Actually the German Vicekanzler resposible for energy thinks otherwise:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German econ minister: Putting Nord Stream 2 online not an option
> 
> 
> Putting the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline into operation was not an option as this would only play into the hands of Russian President Vladimir Putin, the German economy minister said on Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The EU Gas storage for Winter is at 68% and it`s growing:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI


Habeck is a uneducated moron, stupid like "drei Meter Feldweg", he don't even know what he is talking about. And there is a big probability, he is directly a corrupt UKUSA puppet like Baerbock with her pseudo Master degree.

It's like watching Idocracy in real life:






Real life, look at this moron of epic proportions:

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553029699344941059


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553081120736116737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552994239910498304


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552656057918300160


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553156766271152129

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553138501658750976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553161700341436416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553141892266721283

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553164102645829632

Reactions: Love Love:
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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> At least the American made an effort to put the afghan army on it's feet.
> 
> That is a lot more than what the Russians did in Afghanistan.
> 
> Russians invaded Afghanistan ( in the same manner they now invaded Ukraine ) , in order to conquer it. Yet i see no criticism about that. Strange.
> 
> ~


You seem to have warped Zion understanding and view of invasions. What you do is not an invasion but when others copy you it is a invasion.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> You seem to have warped Zion understanding and view of invasions. What you do is not an invasion but when others copy you it is a invasion.


There is a difference between a war of self-defense and a war of agression.
The Taliban has now learned the lession from their earlier mistakes and has stated that they will not allow terrorists to operate from Afghanistan.

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## SLY

Nuclear Clown said:


> *75,000 Russian casualties, US officials say:
> “We were informed that more than 75,000 Russians were either killed or injured, which is enormous,”* Elissa Slotkin, a Democratic House Representative who previously attended a secret US government briefing told CNN.
> This is rather consistant with what Ukrainian MinDef published on 27th July, thus, I think they exaggerate a little about aircraft kills, but surely not with vehicles which are way more tightly monitored/verified/geolocated.
> View attachment 866145
> 
> 
> _*The interception by the Security Service of Ukraine confirms that the "shelling" of the Olenivska colony was carried out by the occupiers themselves*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> twitter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, considering the Orcs' absolute disrespect of ANY international conventions : torture and murder of POWs, concentration camps (called illustration camp), generalised attacks on non military targets, murders and torture of civilians, rapes, rapine, looting, forced "disappearance", children taken for adoption into Russia, etc etc... I truly ask myself if we shouldn't scrap some conventions... So... back to cluster ammos, napalm and sarin? After all, Orcs even used novichok in the UK in order to perpetrate murders, this proves their CW program is still "on"
> 
> 
> Seriously, *Piers Morgan* ? He's the Brit Tucker Carlson! Do you sometimes check the seriousness of your sources???
> This dude is a Tabloid guy! *The Sun*, *News of the World*, Rupert Murdoch's *NewsCorp*...
> You know, you can as well point RT or Sputnik, in fact, you may even take Sputnik more seriously than any of Murdoch's tabloids, and you'll have a hard time being taken seriously by quoting Sputnik...
> Do you know what _*tabloid "journalism"*_ is? So, now Tucker Carlson made of himself a global laughing stock, Russian trolls come out with another Rupert Murdoch's jumpin'jack, Piers Morgan?
> Seriously, Orcs' operations have stalled for near 2 months and the few advances were paid with tremendous losses for a few hundreds metres, with the addition of long range precision artillery like the HiMARS or the CAESAr (up to 80km with rocket boosted shells), arms depots and C2 (Command and Control) are being hit far behind the frontline at a point the WW2-styled rolling artillery barrage is falling apart, as the NASA's FIRMS (Fire Information for Resource Management System) clearly demonstrates a dramatic reduction in artillery strikes, now AFU has even launched a counter offensive


And Your source is" American officials " seems legit country that has been at war for 224 out of 240 years since its founding and has killed millions of civilians around the the world Vietnam, North Korea,Somalia, Libya,Iraq ,Afghanistan and countless other countries and over throws foreign governments that supports the only Apartheid state in the world Israel funds biologically labs all over the world blackmails and sanctions countries that leads to hunger and poverty and America it self was built on the stolen land from the natives

This is what American forces use to do in Somalia













And yet you want us to believe the American sources

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> There is a difference between a war of self-defense and a war of agression.
> The Taliban has now learned the lession from their earlier mistakes and has stated that they will not allow terrorists to operate from Afghanistan.


Isn't that what Hitler said ?-"There is a difference between a war of self-defense and a war of agression."

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## SLY

khansaheeb said:


> Isn't that what Hitler said ?-"There is a difference between a war of self-defense and a war of agression."




Hitler was the biggest scam ever in the history this is why AshkeNazi get so hurt when Lavrov is mentioned 🤣

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## Soldier35

An unusual episode of the battle on the Izyum front in Ukraine, near the village of Bogorodichnoye, was caught on video. Somehow, in an incredible way, three Russian tanks and an armored personnel carrier of Ukraine ended up next to each other and did not immediately notice each other. In the video you can see how they literally ride next to each other.

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## K_Bin_W

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Taliban has now learned the lession from their earlier mistakes and has stated that they will not allow terrorists to operate from Afghanistan.


Thats the biggest cock & bull by amreeka, US prime objective was to get a foothold in A-Stan with China in NE, Russia NW, Eyran, and Pak in the south it is a prime real estate. But Talibs only had one order for the US from day one and that was to "get out"

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## Type59

I think the Russians fed UKR false information leading them to bomb their own soldiers (pow).

The thinking is, if UKR can't trust their intelligence sources then less likely to launch attacks.


----------



## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> How many were destroyed? Lol, you don't hear much about m777 nowadays do you?


Well considering how eager russia is to post (and repost..or even move debris to another site to claim as another kill) such a thing…not that many destroyed really….

I regularly still see them being used in videos as well.

I also forgot the 18 caesars in that list. Adding up! 
Cherson is going to be very interesting! 
Glory to ukraine 🇺🇦 


Han Patriot said:


> Yah, HIMARS that HIMARS this. Before that it was bayraktst that bayraktst tht. All these are common weapons mass produced by China ok. Not some B2s or F35s or F22.


These weapons show a great deal more accuracy, range, speed then much of Russias arsenal.

And China is not battle tested…its kind of sad to see so many chinese boast about their super-army and their super-weapons when so far they have only used it on vietnamese sailors or uyghur civilians. 

Please add “on paper” to all your claims on chinese army ok?

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## ZeGerman

Taiwan is taking notes. 








Taiwan sees lessons in Ukraine


Many Taiwanese are saying Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a wake-up call.




www.axios.com





Instead of just buying a few high end weaponry they will also focus more on drones/javelins and the likes. 
This will Make it a much harder “nut to crack” 

Also the western support for ukraine showed that annexing land by force has consequences….China will think twice before setting anything in motion. 
(Let alone the russian subpar performance showing how chinas amphibious adventure might just become 1 big clusterfuck)

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## Goritoes

So, Russians surrendered ? I mean I am waiting for the break up of Russia so I can have my other 3 wives from Mother Russia

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553128934128107527

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553223448532602880

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> Well considering how eager russia is to post (and repost..or even move debris to another site to claim as another kill) such a thing…not that many destroyed really….
> 
> I regularly still see them being used in videos as well.
> 
> I also forgot the 18 caesars in that list. Adding up!
> Cherson is going to be very interesting!
> Glory to ukraine 🇺🇦
> 
> These weapons show a great deal more accuracy, range, speed then much of Russias arsenal.
> 
> And China is not battle tested…its kind of sad to see so many chinese boast about their super-army and their super-weapons when so far they have only used it on vietnamese sailors or uyghur civilians.
> 
> Please add “on paper” to all your claims on chinese army ok?


WTF dude. These are very common weapons and cost wise, Chinese equivalents are better. MRLS and howitzers are nothing new. Battle tested? You think it's gonna shoot water? Yes having some combat experience can fe nice, but most weapons go through trials and war games, it's not every day you have a war and weapons don't accumulate experience like soldiers genius. You can refine them but a howitzer is a howitzer, pretty rudimentary things and a rocket launcher is a rocket launcher. I don't understand you cheerleaders get orgasms when you hear HIMARS. Lololol. And wtf is it with glory to Ukraine. Ukraine used to be Soviet Union, their glorious time was during that time not now, a corrupt cesspool manipulated by the West.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553264177497919488
Russian missile rain on all over Ukraine 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553270131241136130

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553242771099570178


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553231997773815809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553144546564812800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553139640114499584

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## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> WTF dude. These are very common weapons and cost wise, Chinese equivalents are better. MRLS and howitzers are nothing new. Battle tested? You think it's gonna shoot water? Yes having some combat experience can fe nice, but most weapons go through trials and war games, it's not every day you have a war and weapons don't accumulate experience like soldiers genius. You can refine them but a howitzer is a howitzer, pretty rudimentary things and a rocket launcher is a rocket launcher. I don't understand you cheerleaders get orgasms when you hear HIMARS. Lololol. And wtf is it with glory to Ukraine. Ukraine used to be Soviet Union, their glorious time was during that time not now, a corrupt cesspool manipulated by the West.


Combat experience and especially in combined warfare matters a lot.

Also we have chinese regulated specs and controlled wargames. This is on “paper”. The real test is actual battlefield.

Back in the soviet union they were little more then a colony. Now we see the birth of a nation. Glory to ukraine 🇺🇦

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## gambit

K_Bin_W said:


> Thats the biggest cock & bull by amreeka, US prime objective was to get a foothold in A-Stan with China in NE, Russia NW, Eyran, and Pak in the south it is a prime real estate. But Talibs only had one order for the US from day one and that was to "get out"


So when will the Taliban start sending terrorists...I mean...'advisors' to other countries on how to 'defeat' the US?

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## MyNameAintJeff

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553033768927215618
> The Russian Nazis


This is the most retarded thing I've read in a long time. Why would Russia attack their own POW camp with artillery? Why wouldn't they use just shoot them instead if they wanted to kill them? It makes no logical sense. By using artillery they would risk killing the Russian guards. And if they evacuated the guards that would risk a complete prison break of the POWs. 
And that is not going into the incentive for killing POWs when they can be traded for your own prisoners.
The most logical explanation is that Ukraine hit the camp either intentionally or by mistake.

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## sammuel

~



Are Russian Artillery Barrels at End of Life?​
Simple explanation :


A Gun can fire about 2500 shells before it needs to be replaced or maintained.

If it does not , it looses range and accuracy , or in worse cases it explodes.

Ryan McBeth , calculates that the Russians are firing 25 shells a day , that gives them 99 days of firing before it reaches 2500.

Russia has been firing this artillery for about 125 days. So according to McBeth theory - those guns barrels are reaching their end , and would soon cause either serious logistic or operational problems.


There have been rumors that Russia is shooting up to 50,000 rounds of artillery per day in the Donbas region of occupied Ukraine. Other Russian apologists insist that the real number is 500,000.

You can't cheat physics. You can't cheat chemistry. You can't cheat math. Every round fired puts an artillery barrel closer to depot level maintenance / reset. This is is important to keep in mind when estimating artillery capabilities.














Russia’s Artillery Is Wearing Out And Blowing Up​






Russian army 2S7 howitzer after a barrel-failure.


Russian artillery batteries in Ukraine appear to be running low on ammunition as Ukrainian rockets blow up more and more supply dumps.

And that’s not the only problem Russian gunners are having as Russia’s wider war on Ukraine grinds into its fifth month. Their artillery tubes are exploding, too.


Photos that appeared online in recent days depict two Russian guns with what Mark Hertling, a retired U.S. Army general who commanded forces in Europe, described as “banana-peeled” barrels.


That is, split and bent-back after bursting mid-use. According to Hertling, the banana-peeled tubes of one towed gun and one self-propelled gun are evidence the Russians are wearing out their artillery pieces—and not repairing them.


“Here’s what happens when you don’t do maintenance,” Hertling tweeted. “You can bet there were associated casualties.”

Artillery failures are just one data point in a wider set of indications that the Russian army is worn out, and getting wearier, following months of intensive operations aimed at capturing the twin cities of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region.











Russia’s Artillery Is Wearing Out And Blowing Up


Photos that appeared online in recent days depict two Russian guns with what Mark Hertling, a retired U.S. Army general who commanded forces in Europe, described as “banana-peeled” barrels.




www.forbes.com






~

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## Paul2

NotSure said:


> True that!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551853863300366336



Yes, the EU should've given him an adult treatment 20 year ago, and made a new 8 nation alliance to tear up his country.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552993081938550784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553296612599930880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553296612599930880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553175142003515392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553109428118999041

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## Nuclear Clown

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553156766271152129


_*'The cost of each Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) M31 round used by HIMARS and the M270: $168,000"*_ - Tyler Rogoway




Tyler's explanations in next posts help understanding how HiMARS help ruining the plans of the Orcs.





SLY said:


> And Your source is" American officials " seems legit country that has been at war for 224 out of 240 years since its founding and has killed millions of civilians around the the world Vietnam, North Korea,Somalia, Libya,Iraq ,Afghanistan and countless other countries and over throws foreign governments that supports the only Apartheid state in the world Israel funds biologically labs all over the world blackmails and sanctions countries that leads to hunger and poverty and America it self was built on the stolen land from the natives
> 
> This is what American forces use to do in Somalia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you want us to believe the American sources


Bad photoshopping for the pistol towards the head!!! The Berretta 92S is disproportioned!
Good propaganda try
BTW, if you're showing some Shebabs who are destroying Somalia, all that they deserve is 
Moreover, even if the Yankees do bad, it's not an excuse for the Russky to do even worse! 
We're talking about *the Russky leading an all out war of EXTERMINATION on a nation* as they themselves say on their own TV and press, and even calls from their church which is led by an ex-KGB operative:








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513331072007909379

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521802979619311618Concentration camps, reeducation, sterilisation...

We are not talking the Yankee going against some terrorist organisation linked to al-Qaeda like the Shebabs in a low intensity conflict! 
*We're talking about full cities of 450,000 razed.

We're talking about the yesterday's massacre of POWs by Russian forces, if fact, we're discussing daily massacres of civilians as 70% of Russian targets are civilian. *





*Oh, BTW, Somalia has recently declared itself in state of famine* due to the blockade of Ukrainian ports by Russia...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538911097138331648*- "The famine will start now and they will lift the sanctions and be friends with us, because they will realize that it's impossible not to be friends with us,"* - said Kremlin propagandist *Margarita Simonyan* during the Petersburg Economic Forum

But, as shown by this video-clip from a Russian embassy, Russia welcomes you: 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552886838926479360Time to move to Russia! 
(Frankly, you'd better be white, their only interest in Asians or Middle-Easters from Caucasus is to be used as cannon-fodder. Most of Asian cities are hell-holes and what the clip doesn't shows is that as soon you're out of major cities in European Russia, it's the 3rd world too and guess where they do want manpower? Not in lovely cities like Moscow, St.Petersburg or Sochi! In fact, you'd get a better life working at Lidl or Aldi in the EU than being a public works engineer in Russia. 
For sure, it's better than Somalia but.. the old Blues song absolutely stands for Russia : "If you're white, that's right, if you're brown, don't get around, if you're black... Get back"... You can add "if you're low, better stay low"...

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553037680123985924

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552671481678774273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552910750909358080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553303347788238848


----------



## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> Combat experience and especially in combined warfare matters a lot.
> 
> Also we have chinese regulated specs and controlled wargames. This is on “paper”. The real test is actual battlefield.
> 
> Back in the soviet union they were little more then a colony. Now we see the birth of a nation. Glory to ukraine 🇺🇦


Dude stop the glory to Ukraine shit. You sound like a dmbfck cheerleader, you don't see us screaming glory to Russia shit right. The reason we are supporting Russia is because this shit was started by NATO and we are sad seeing Russia fighting their own blood brothers. It reminds us of how the West tries to fracture China. She wahhh you guy are really like those fanatical religious folks, putting on Ukrainian flags and shit. I have seen no Chinese putting up Russian flag. Crazy how ppl can be brainwashed with mainstream media. You know those Neil Hitler dumbfvks, you sound like one of those idiots.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> end of Russia terror bombings in sight
> 
> Ukraine wants 11x modern missile defense Iris-T made by Diehl defence.
> 
> That’s good for 11x big cities in Ukraine.
> 
> The question is how fast can the German company make them? Maybe if they can work in 3-day-shifts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine wants to buy 11 German-made IRIS-T SLM air defense missile systems | Defense News July 2022 Global Security army industry | Defense Security global news industry army year 2022 | Archive News year
> 
> 
> Ukraine would be interested in acquiring eleven German-made Iris-T SLM air defense missile systems which could be partly financed by Germany
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.armyrecognition.com


hope you are aware that Ukrainian Buk have more range and can engage target at higher altitude


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

It's pretty clear Russia will win eventually , they are liberating areas daily with lots of casualties though, the west knows Russia will win they are just making sure Russia bleed enough before victory , Russia remaining objectives is to secure Donbass completely after that they will only defend the taken land not go forward any further

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## The SC




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## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> Habeck is a uneducated moron, stupid like "drei Meter Feldweg", he don't even know what he is talking about. And there is a big probability, he is directly a corrupt UKUSA puppet like Baerbock with her pseudo Master degree.
> 
> It's like watching Idocracy in real life:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Real life, look at this moron of epic proportions:



He is still the Vicekanzler of Germany 

Anyway to be serious and work on numbers, taking into account this:


Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI



With north stream at 20%, why do need NS2, anyway?
Winters in Europe lately are hardly winters ( 5 degrees C+ )

This whole Gas "panic" will end up with Europe having too much Gas in spring of 2023.
I do not understand the Russian strategy here, as this is a one way trip.


----------



## Primus

Nuclear Clown said:


> 24 CAESAr now : 6 more announced about 2 weeks ago
> :
> 
> 1.) Russia vowed to fully exterminate the Azov battalion which ridiculed their SpetsNazis for 8 years, now it's done.
> Due to an agreement with the UN to get Azov to surrender in Mariupol, executing them as they vowed would have been to damaging for Russia's reputation.
> 2.) The 200 Azov guys were moved in this improvised prison 3 days before, I let you guess why
> 3.) Russian communications about the bias were intercepted.
> 4.) How the corpses are burnt is clearly the result of thermobarics. The only thermobaric artillery used by Ukraine are TOS-1B captured from the Orcs, but the TOS-1B rockets have very short range, thus unable to reach this improvised prison which was nothing else than a* DEATH CAMP WHERE THEY BURNT AZOV ALIVE, NOT EVEN GASSING THEM FIRST *!
> 5.) By doing so, they're just doing a plausible deniability to cover up their war crime,, BTW, Russia already mass slaughtered Polish POWs after jointly invading Poland when they started WW2 together with the Nazis. Do you know that Molotov personally congratulated Nazi ambassador to Russia Schulenburg for their "splendid" invasion of France in 1940?
> 6.) Old propaganda trick:
> View attachment 866286
> 
> 7.) Have you ever informed yourself about Putin's ideology? He's no commie at all, he even calls commies as morons... Guess why he backs so much far right white supremacists parties everywhere? Putin's a Nazi, period!
> 
> Thus, they'd better go Rafale than F-16V, F-16V can't blockade all of PRC coast and only has the 3rd of Rafale's operational capability for the double hourly cost. Not a clever choice in Taiwan's situation... The use of Rafale would spare them $5.5-6 millions a year/unit if they replace the 127 F-16, so add the 66 F-16V on order and 54 remaining Mirage-2000... Actually, a fleet of 247 Rafales would spare 'em $1.4Bn a year, enough to buy a new squadron every year or other stuff, moreover, that's enough to shoot down ALL combat aircraft in PLAAF+PLANAF and sink all PLAN vessels in a single mission
> 
> What TW does is not the best way to achieve reunification with mainland China:
> View attachment 866279
> 
> Now, I severely doubt PRC is gonna try TW : there are way too much clues to still believe Taiwan is still just nuclear-threshold, especially since Trump gave 'em the green light, they don't even try to hide any more.


Raffie can you please shut up?

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## oberschlesier

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> It's pretty clear Russia will win eventually , they are liberating areas daily with lots of casualties though, the west knows Russia will win they are just making sure Russia bleed enough before victory , Russia remaining objectives is to secure Donbass completely after that they will only defend the taken land not go forward any further


I would not be so sure here. This war can last for years. As long as Russia won`t change the government in Kiev in one way or another, this whole thing does not make sense for them.
Can Russia achieve this objective? 80% No.


----------



## K_Bin_W

gambit said:


> So when will the Taliban start sending terrorists...I mean...'advisors' to other countries on how to 'defeat' the US?


No need, US is already defeated it has a track record...

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## oberschlesier

The Chinese are pragmatic:









Xi Jinping calls for high-quality BRI cooperation between China, Poland


China and Poland should conduct high-quality cooperation under the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) and deepen practical cooperation in fields such as economy and trade and interconnectivity, Chinese President Xi Jinping said on Friday.




news.cgtn.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346547739410432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346551992487936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346556140593152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346561861718016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346565720494089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346572641046530

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346583571333126

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346592270417922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346601640402945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346609278238724

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346614391177218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346618489012225

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553329194574176264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553328485149675520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553327739964366848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553312856229150720

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346624067633152

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> No doubt Jews have the cabal backing but winning? Ask the Nazis how many were gassed. I foresee another uprising to cleanse them. Warm words? China essentially bankroll Russia, without us buying their oil n gas, they would have been crushed. Well we have to help them anyway, NATO must be contained.
> 
> 
> How many were destroyed? Lol, you don't hear much about m777 nowadays do you?
> 
> 
> Yah, HIMARS that HIMARS this. Before that it was bayraktst that bayraktst tht. All these are common weapons mass produced by China ok. Not some B2s or F35s or F22.


That’s what I say x times. You are just interested of cheap gas. No morals. Zero. Even when millions people die you don’t care of. As sign of deep friendship you give Putin cheap anti West rhetoric in return.


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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> hope you are aware that Ukrainian Buk have more range and can engage target at higher altitude


Can Buk protect Ukraine against Russia terror bombings? Obviously not. Ukraine cities lie in ruin. Where is Buk? Ukraine wants the same missile defense Germany has. Do you know why I sleep well? The Iris system promises to intercept every incoming missile.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552837479908220929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553315617201168384

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## A.P. Richelieu

K_Bin_W said:


> Thats the biggest cock & bull by amreeka, US prime objective was to get a foothold in A-Stan with China in NE, Russia NW, Eyran, and Pak in the south it is a prime real estate. But Talibs only had one order for the US from day one and that was to "get out"


That is your opinion, which hardly makes sense.
The US left Afghanistan after the Soviets were run out.
Their prime objective was to get bin Laden, which succeeded.
The Taliban spent 20 years trying to get the US out and only succeeded when the US got bored and left.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553149391510306817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553389842091937792

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553386195018727426

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553394516937396224

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> That’s what I say x times. You are just interested of cheap gas. No morals. Zero. Even when millions people die you don’t care of. As sign of deep friendship you give Putin cheap anti West rhetoric in return.


Do I look like an angel to you! Where were you when US killed 500k Iraqi kids and civilians or when Israel slaughtered thousands of Muslims? Or when Nam got gassed, I dont see you slava Vietnam or shit right. My only concern and love is China my motherland, we don't invade others and take their territory, what is ours is ours, nothing more nothing less, the last time we invaded somebody was Vietnam, even then it was a 'military operation', we didn't take an inch of land which is not ours. So don't talk to me about morals when the biggest threat to world peace is USA the hypocrite.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

An update from Russian Ministry of Defense on July 30, 2022 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553380956547043328

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Do I look like an angel to you! Where were you when US killed 500k Iraqi kids and civilians or when Israel slaughtered thousands of Muslims? Or when Nam got gassed, I dont see you slava Vietnam or shit right. My only concern and love is China my motherland, we don't invade others and take their territory, what is ours is ours, nothing more nothing less, the last time we invaded somebody was Vietnam, even then it was a 'military operation', we didn't take an inch of land which is not ours. So don't talk to me about morals when the biggest threat to world peace is USA the hypocrite.


For your information
I never justify US wars of aggression against any country. I never justify Israeli, Chinese or any other hooligan.
I tend to be pro Russia because they were as USSR supported Vietnam winning the war. However Putin is just too dumb to follow other people’s wars of aggression. I hope he will realize it eventually before it’s too late.
Life is short and precarious, no need to waste lives on thing like this special military ops shit.


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## etylo

Viet said:


> For your information
> I never justify US wars of aggression against any country. I never justify Israeli, Chinese or any other hooligan.
> I tend to be pro Russia because they were as USSR supported Vietnam winning the war. However Putin is just too dumb to follow other people’s wars of aggression. I hope he will realize it eventually before it’s too late.
> Life is short and precarious, no need to waste lives on thing like this special military ops shit.


The most famous hooligan countries are USA and Vietnam indeed, both are rogue states, that's why the two countries get along so well see eye to eye now, giving the strong hatred and animosity history between them not long ago.


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## K_Bin_W

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is your opinion, which hardly makes sense.
> The US left Afghanistan after the Soviets were run out.
> Their prime objective was to get bin Laden, which succeeded.
> The Taliban spent 20 years trying to get the US out and only succeeded when the US got bored and left.



LAMO... Same BL that no one ever saw... You are right Amreeka also ran with its tail between the legs from NoKo and Nam when it got bored..... ROTFL....


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553262416107937792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553382657156780032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553417697873969152


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Can Buk protect Ukraine against Russia terror bombings? Obviously not. Ukraine cities lie in ruin. Where is Buk? Ukraine wants the same missile defense Germany has. Do you know why I sleep well? The Iris system promises to intercept every incoming missile.


if buk can't that missile also don't change it much . buk engage up to 40km away and at altitude of around 27km

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553410656434622469

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## A.P. Richelieu

K_Bin_W said:


> LAMO... Same BL that no one ever saw... You are right Amreeka also ran with its tail between the legs from NoKo and Nam when it got bored..... ROTFL....


The same BL that has not been heard of since.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553398578097360896


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## K_Bin_W

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The same BL that has not been heard of since.


Nor seen by anyone during the since...lolz


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## Nuclear Clown

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346547739410432
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346551992487936
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346556140593152
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346561861718016
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346565720494089
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553346572641046530


Russian mass murder of POWs proven, Orcs accusing AFU of perpetrating the war crime shredded and demolished, as it was predictable. 
Well, they act so nasty and so stupid that even the most idiot trolls end giving up as the finally get why EVERY EASTERN EUROPE COUNTRY WANTS TO BE IN NATO : For once Lavrov didn't lied, it has to be noticed








Han Patriot said:


> Dude stop the glory to Ukraine shit. You sound like a dmbfck cheerleader, you don't see us screaming glory to Russia shit right. The reason we are supporting Russia is because this shit was started by NATO and we are sad seeing Russia fighting their own blood brothers. It reminds us of how the West tries to fracture China. She wahhh you guy are really like those fanatical religious folks, putting on Ukrainian flags and shit. I have seen no Chinese putting up Russian flag. Crazy how ppl can be brainwashed with mainstream media. You know those Neil Hitler dumbfvks, you sound like one of those idiots.


Except Vladolf Putler HIMSELF said it's NOT about NATO
*Putin's war was never about NATO-Foreign-Policy.com*
And so says state-owned RIA/Novosti or Rossiya-1 TV:
*The goal is the destruction of the Uktainian nation, plain and clear ! *


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513331072007909379




https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1521802979619311618






And if any cretin believes Orcs are into negotiating a peaceful solution


https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1551229056586244100



*"All my trolls are morons" - *Darth Putin



Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> It's pretty clear Russia will win eventually , they are liberating areas daily with lots of casualties though, the west knows Russia will win they are just making sure Russia bleed enough before victory , Russia remaining objectives is to secure Donbass completely after that they will only defend the taken land not go forward any further


Defend with what? They're already pulling 1961 T-62 tanks out of storage. Russia is not the USSR, They have less population than🇫🇷🇩🇪
and most of Soviet industries were in🇵🇱🇺🇦 coz Russians were too drunk to work.🇷🇺has the GDP of🇦🇺 and one of the worsts birthrates in the world.
+🇪🇺 weight about half of world's GDP, NATO protects 1 billion people and I'm not counting the numerous other friendly countries. NATO packs the 2 thirds of world's firepower. In 6 months from now,🇷🇺will have to pull the T-34 and IS-2 tanks out of museums while🇺🇦pilots will be trained for western jets.
You've surely heard about NFZ (no fly zone) but are you familiar to the NDZ (no drive zone) concept ???
Let me introduce you to what's gonna fall on remaining🇷🇺 invaders : the CBU-97/105 : any NATO tactical aircraft can carry at least 12 at once, up to 18 for a Rafale...








CBU 97 Sensor Fuzed Weapon


In this clip you get to see the military little toy, it is a sensor fuzed weapon that has over 40 skeets that seek out a target an rain hot molted copper eve...




www.youtube.com




Each demolishes up to 40 MBT
This means that a single Rafale squadron can demolish up to 12,960 tanks per sortie, and being the only one able to be pushed to 11 sorties per 24h in need for intensive use, this means up to 142,560 vehicles or pieces of artillery busted in 24 hours...
You surely remember the 1991 infamous Highway of Death...
Took 3 days, about 2500 vehicles busted, likely 5,000-10,000 dead




Now I let you imagine if just about the 3rd of CBU-97/105's EFPs find a target... About 50,000 vehicles busted, about 150,000 dead in 24 hours... And with a single squadron doing the grunt job... I let you guess what ruled out the use of tactical nukes to stop the 65,000 Soviet tanks in NATO's little book.
BTW, the submunitions blow just before reaching the ground if they don't find targets: the goal is to go as close as possible to zero UXO.



Hack-Hook said:


> hope you are aware that Ukrainian Buk have more range and can engage target at higher altitude


You don't seem to get how SAM systems work...
You know, Patriot's PAC-3 ranges only 20km and PAC-3MSE 35km
Buk is just good at shooting down airliners like the MH-17, the Tu-22M and eventually heavily loaded Su-25 that end stuck under 5G manoeuvres:
Buk has very heavy 690kg missiles that only do 19-20 G manoeuvres, and 24 G for the latest 9M317 missile.You need to pull the quarter a missile can manoeuvre to dodge it. I suppose that the UkrAF MiG-29 shot down in 2016 was probably heavily loaded too, or simply w.o. RWR like all the jets sold 2nd hand by Belarus, BTW, the AMRAAM long range record kill was an ex-Belarus MiG-29 owned y Serbia.
I'm extremely dubious about the claimed results over Syria against Tomahawk missiles as well as against Israeli weapons. Why?
- With a target acquisition between 60m and 25,000m altitude, how do you lock-on a terrain-hugging cruise missile at 10-30m?
- On near all of videos of alleged interceptions of Israeli aerial weapons on SANA [Syria] TV, you don't see a secondary blast and the explosion is timed about the same time the Buk or the Pantsir reaches its max range and self destroys... Moreover, RosoboronExport boasts positive tests against Scuds and heavy artillery rockets, unserstand: similar to the large Weishi WS-41 AKA M-302 AKA Khaibar-1.
The capabilities of the IRIS-T SL are way more extended...
Thus, I'd have opted for the MICA-VL especially with the MICA-NG getting 50% more range and new seekers: the IRIS-T may be a little more manoeuvrable with 60G vs 50G, which aerial target can do 12.5G dodging manoeuvres? For the remainder, capabilities are rather similar but MICA-NG has longer range than AMRAAM-C and obsolete MICA is on par with AMRAAM-B but with about the double no escape zone of the AMRAAM-C, moreover, MICA-NG adds a dual pulse engine, so expect fuel to be left rather close to the max range. MICA may also re-lock if dodged and both do U-turns. No known jamming method, if you're in the NEZ, you have a "Looney Tunes" missile after you and you'll be toasted.

Visibly, IRIS-T missile can also be loaded into NASAMS and AMRAAM seems not so great against cruise missiles.

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## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> So when will the Taliban start sending terrorists...I mean...'advisors' to other countries on how to 'defeat' the US?


No one needs training , just a belief and a Kalashnikov. You showing signs of denialism and an inferiority complex, a natural reaction to defeat.

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## Lehrasap

etylo said:


> Don't talk to me about morals of BS, you Europeans are the least qualified people to talk about. You people are the worst human rights violators in the world history, you people waged bloodiest barbaric wars of conquests and colonization, committed genocides of other races, engaged in slave trades, waged opium wars and forced others to take toxic drugs, and polundered and looted others' wealth and treasures for centuries, and recently waged many wars on many countries of the Mideast and Central Asia. Now, it's coming full circles to hunt you people.



Why should we not talk about it. We have the best Humanitarian system today, where basic Human rights are given a lot of importance. Only due to this millions of people from your countries try to migrate to the West (and not vice-versa). 
And the present generation of Western countries is not responsible for what happened in the past. 
And the present generation of Western countries are not bound to accept any asylum seeker or immigrant under any law, but they do it only and only in name of humanity, and then give them citizenship too, and give them Equal human rights, and even social benefits if they need it. 
And that is why it is our right to brag about it, and to criticize the human rights violation in your countries and how you don't care about basic human rights. 
And it is also our right to show you your double standards, where with worse human rights records, you come and want to criticize us instead of looking at your faults first. 



etylo said:


> And don't forget, it's you Europeans with NATO and America instigated the Ukraine war by expanding NATO to the heartland of Russia to threaten its security. You Europeans and Americans have to solve the problem of stopping the war with Russians, it's your European problem, don't blame on China, China is just doing normal business with Russia, that's all. As matter of fact, China also officially opposes the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, but, don't expect China to be a saint.



It is a stupid argument. It was not about NATO, but Putin was ALWAYS interested in capturing Ukraine and make it a part of Russian. If you deny these real intentions of Putin, then you are a blind person and nothing else. 

Putin never allowed Chechnya or any other state of Russia (where other ethnic groups have majority) to have their own language as the first language, but he demanded Russian to be the first language in parts of Ukraine where Russian population is present. Are these not the Double Standards?

Show us which rights Putin gave to Chechnyan people that Ukraine didn't give to the Russian people of Ukraine?

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## The SC




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## ZeGerman

khansaheeb said:


> No one needs training , just a belief and a Kalashnikov. You showing signs of denialism and an inferiority complex, a natural reaction to defeat.


Not once was the coalition defeated on the battlefield there. And even with a skeleton crew it kept taliban in check. Losing only a handfull of coalition soldiers a year.

Is that humilitating defeat?

Staying there holding hands of AFA for eternity costing billions is something we grew tired of.
We left AFA with better weapons, material, and longer training and more men then ukraine….


The humiliation is that despite 20 years we could not motivate these corrupt shits to stand up against taliban.

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## The SC



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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553410656434622469




Ukrainians got blown up by their own mines after they retreated from their forward positions. That is what happens when one in a hasty retreat.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553475037369360384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553471414279311360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553470466215616515

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553412496173793284

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553403186421063680

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## Ahmadbhutta01

SHOCKING
Eating a Russian soldier:
A regular guy from #Kiev, #Ukraine cooks and eats human remains which he found in what he believed was a burned #Russian tank. However tank was a #Ukrainian T-64, which means he ate his fellow tribesman.

#Cannibal #Ukraine #Nazi #UkraineWar https://t.co/VAOEzf2p2C

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## etylo

Lehrasap said:


> Why should we not talk about it. We have the best Humanitarian system today, where basic Human rights are given a lot of importance. Only due to this millions of people from your countries try to migrate to the West (and not vice-versa).
> And the present generation of Western countries is not responsible for what happened in the past.
> And the present generation of Western countries are not bound to accept any asylum seeker or immigrant under any law, but they do it only and only in name of humanity, and then give them citizenship too, and give them Equal human rights, and even social benefits if they need it.
> And that is why it is our right to brag about it, and to criticize the human rights violation in your countries and how you don't care about basic human rights.
> And it is also our right to show you your double standards, where with worse human rights records, you come and want to criticize us instead of looking at your faults first.


Talk of human rights you want to talk about ? How many millions of people have you West mass killed and how many immoral wars have you the evil West waged against other countries in the world since WW II, from Korea war, to Vietnam war, to Iraq war, Afghan war, Libya war, Syria war and so on ! And how many wars have China waged in the past 40 years ? None. You think you people are innocent all together ? You think people in the world are stupid to forget what heinous crimes you people's ancestors did to others in the conquests and colonization of the world in the past centuries, you think you are not the direct heirs to your ancestors' criminal legacies that you people are still directly benefiting today ? The lands you European descendants, Americans and Australians live today in the Americas and Australia are stolen dfrom the native people there ! Why don't you people return then your ancestors plundered and looted wealth and treasures to those victim countries ? Don't pretend that you are so dumb that you don't know these facts. You think that you people can just whitewash and forget your ancestors' crimes like snap of a finger ? Just don't be shameless hypocrites you Indians lick up to your white masters, you people are the most disgusting lackeys in the world indeed.

Talk of asylum, there are never any of million people from my country to the West, just BS ! Few brainwashed by the West people want to migrate to the West, that's their problem ! Now, look at the widespread racial violence, hatred and discrimination against coloured minorities and immigrants in the West such as the US and EU, you should be ashamed of the conducts of you countries indeed ! Don't talk bullshit your humanitarian system, you West wage wars, mass kill large number of innocent people and create all the refugees in the world, and then your West countries pretend to let some of the refugees into your countries just to be discriminated and you think the whole world should thank you people and treat you criminals as angels ? Purely shameless !

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## MeFishToo

etylo said:


> Talk of human rights you want to talk about ? How many millions of people have you West mass killed and how many immoral wars have you the evil West waged against other countries in the world since WW II, from Korea war, to Vietnam war, to Iraq war, Afghan war, Libya war, Syria war and so on ! And how many wars have China waged in the past 40 years ? None. You think you people are innocent all together ? You think people in the world are stupid to forget what heinous crimes you people's ancestors did to others in the conquests and colonization of the world in the past centuries, you think you are not the direct heirs to your ancestors' criminal legacies that you people are still directly benefiting today ? Just don't be shameless hypocrites you Indians lick up to your white masters, you people are the most disgusting people in the world indeed.
> 
> Talk of asylum, there are never any of million people from my country to the West, just BS ! Some brainwashed by the West people want to migrate to the West, that's their problem ! Now, look at the widespread racial violence, hatred and discrimination against coloured minorities and immigrants in the West such as the US and EU, you should be ashamed of the conducts of you countries indeed ! Don't talk bullshit your humanitarian system, you West wage wars, mass kill large number of innocent people and create all the refugees in the world, and then your West countries pretend to let some of the refugees into your countries just to be discriminated and you think the whole world should thank you people and treat you criminals as angels ? Purely shameless !


You most be spending alot of time fueling this hate. My guess is none of those alleged western crimes affected your life, yet you feel entitled to blame the entire western world of something some ancestors did.
Honestly, I wonder why some of you are in such a hurry pointing your finger at the west, completely ignoring the history of the rest of the world.

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## etylo

MeFishToo said:


> You most be spending alot of time fueling this hate. My guess is none of those alleged western crimes affected your life, yet you feel entitled to blame the entire western world of something some ancestors did.
> Honestly, I wonder why some of you are in such a hurry pointing your finger at the west, completely ignoring the history of the rest of the world.


I don't know what you are talking about, don't deflect from the issue. I am not fuelling that hate, just pointing out the true facts of history of you people in the West lest you people want to forget and pretend you people hold the moral high grounds to other people.

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## MeFishToo

etylo said:


> I don't know what you are talking about, don't deflect from the issue. I am not fuelling that hate, just pointing out the true facts of history of you people in the West lest you people want to forget and pretend you people hold the moral high grounds to other people.


Your country and location says Canada, so who are “you people”?

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> For your information
> I never justify US wars of aggression against any country. I never justify Israeli, Chinese or any other hooligan.
> I tend to be pro Russia because they were as USSR supported Vietnam winning the war. However Putin is just too dumb to follow other people’s wars of aggression. I hope he will realize it eventually before it’s too late.
> Life is short and precarious, no need to waste lives on thing like this special military ops shit.


Numb numb, if he doesn't invade Ukraine, NATO will expand further into central Asia, it will be at our borders. Absolute power is dangerous, you as a Vietnamnese should opt for a multipolar world so each superpower will balance out each other and smaller countries can get a better deal. Putin is not stupid, NATO gave him no choice.

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## Parwaz e Ishq

MeFishToo said:


> yet you feel entitled to blame the entire western world of something some ancestors did.





Lehrasap said:


> *And the present generation of Western countries is not responsible for what happened in the past*


Present European generations are direct beneficiary of crimes (& exploitation of colonies etc) of their ancestors.
If present European generations are morally good human beings, as you claim, then Europe should apologize & should give looted wealth (& other assets) back to their former colonies. But what we see is, ironically, some European countries like France are still levying Tax on their former African colonies.








French colonial tax still enforce for Africa


After the French destroyed Guinea who had sought independence, the alternative was to pay a tax. No African country could estimate the effect this had on 14 different



worldbulletin.dunyabulteni.net












14 African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax For the Benefits of Slavery and Colonization - PAN AFRICAN VISIONS


By Mawuna Remarque KOUTONIN* Did you know many African countries continue to pay colonial tax to France since their independence till today! When Sékou Touré of Guinea decided in 1958 to get out of french colonial empire, and opted for the country independence, the french colonial elite in...




panafricanvisions.com












France accused of 'still controlling' some of its former colonies in Africa


France has been accused of “clandestinely exercising control” over francophone African countries since they formally obtained freedom. The French colonial encounter in West Africa was driven by commercial interests and, perhaps to a lesser degree, a civilizing mission. By the close of the Second...




www.eureporter.co






Lehrasap said:


> And *it is our right to show you your double standards*, where with worse human rights records, you come and want to criticize us instead of looking at your faults first.


What?
Do you have any shame left?
USA + European Countries are actively supplying ammo to resist 'Russian Aggression' while simultaneously supplying ammo (& finances & technology etc) to assist in 'Israeli Aggression' against Arabs?
You invaded Afghanistan bcz OBL was given asylum there but you yourself give asylum to our criminals like Altaf Hussain.
Many 3rd world countries or your former colonies are sanctioned by FATF bcz of money laundering BUT you/FATF didn't sanction those European Countries that are destination of that laundered money!
(& you will never sanction them bcz your economy runs on these kind of activities)
Hypocrites (USA & EU) don't have the right to tell others about their double standards.

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## Parwaz e Ishq

Parwaz e Ishq said:


> Present European generations are direct beneficiary of crimes (& exploitation of colonies etc) of their ancestors.
> If present European generations are morally good human beings, as you claim, then Europe should apologize & should give looted wealth (& other assets) back to their former colonies. But what we see is, ironically, some European countries like France are still levying Tax on their former African colonies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> French colonial tax still enforce for Africa
> 
> 
> After the French destroyed Guinea who had sought independence, the alternative was to pay a tax. No African country could estimate the effect this had on 14 different
> 
> 
> 
> worldbulletin.dunyabulteni.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax For the Benefits of Slavery and Colonization - PAN AFRICAN VISIONS
> 
> 
> By Mawuna Remarque KOUTONIN* Did you know many African countries continue to pay colonial tax to France since their independence till today! When Sékou Touré of Guinea decided in 1958 to get out of french colonial empire, and opted for the country independence, the french colonial elite in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> panafricanvisions.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> France accused of 'still controlling' some of its former colonies in Africa
> 
> 
> France has been accused of “clandestinely exercising control” over francophone African countries since they formally obtained freedom. The French colonial encounter in West Africa was driven by commercial interests and, perhaps to a lesser degree, a civilizing mission. By the close of the Second...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eureporter.co
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What?
> Do you have any shame left?
> USA + European Countries are actively supplying ammo to resist 'Russian Aggression' while simultaneously supplying ammo (& finances & technology etc) to assist in 'Israeli Aggression' against Arabs?
> You invaded Afghanistan bcz OBL was given asylum there but you yourself give asylum to our criminals like Altaf Hussain.
> Many 3rd world countries or your former colonies are sanctioned by FATF bcz of money laundering BUT you/FATF didn't sanction those European Countries that are destination of that laundered money!
> (& you will never sanction them bcz your economy runs on these kind of activities)
> Hypocrites don't have the right to tell others about their double standards.



P.S. @etylo


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## etylo

Parwaz e Ishq said:


> P.S. @etylo


Exactly, these shameless Europeans not only won't apologize for their ancestors' crimes, return the plundered and looted wealth and treasures to the origin countries, and compensate to the victims for their conquest and colonial war crimes and killings, but, these Europeans are committing some of the same heinous crimes their ancestors did to Africans and others today. Totally despicable and shameless these modern days looters and killers, have the audacity to talk of other people's human rights all the time !

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## khansaheeb

MeFishToo said:


> You most be spending alot of time fueling this hate. My guess is none of those alleged western crimes affected your life, yet you feel entitled to blame the entire western world of something some ancestors did.
> Honestly, I wonder why some of you are in such a hurry pointing your finger at the west, completely ignoring the history of the rest of the world.


Not did but doing too.

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## Lehrasap

Parwaz e Ishq said:


> Present European generations are direct beneficiary of crimes (& exploitation of colonies etc) of their ancestors.
> If present European generations are morally good human beings, as you claim, then Europe should apologize & should give looted wealth (& other assets) back to their former colonies. But what we see is, ironically, some European countries like France are still levying Tax on their former African colonies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> French colonial tax still enforce for Africa
> 
> 
> After the French destroyed Guinea who had sought independence, the alternative was to pay a tax. No African country could estimate the effect this had on 14 different
> 
> 
> 
> worldbulletin.dunyabulteni.net



Muslim history of the last 14 centuries is full of massacre of other nations (starting from Banu Qurayzah), and taking their women and children as slaves and then raping the women. 
Have Muslims ever apologized for the crimes of their ancestors? 
Are Muslims of present generation not beneficiaries of the looted war booty of their ancestors?
Have Muslims apologized to Hindus while your ancestor Ghaznavi looted their temples?

Has your Hero Putin apologized to what Soviet Union did to other countries including Ukraine (where it killed millions of Ukrainians)?

If you cannot show apologies from present Muslims for the crimes of their ancestors, why then you demand an apology from the present generation of Western countries to apologize for the crimes of their ancestors? 

Double Standards? 

Reality doesn't change that the present Western countries show many times more humanitarian behavior than countries like Pakistan, who even didn't give refuge to the stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh, or kicked out Afghan refugees even after their kids were born in Pakistan and raised in Pakistan. 

The fact is not going to change that only Western countries are today giving asylum and then citizenship and equal human rights and even social benefits to them. And they are not bound to do it under any law, but all that has been done in the name of humanity. 



Parwaz e Ishq said:


> What?
> Do you have any shame left?
> USA + European Countries are actively supplying ammo to resist 'Russian Aggression' while simultaneously supplying ammo (& finances & technology etc) to assist in 'Israeli Aggression' against Arabs?



Israel is a grey area and not all went according to real charter of UN. 



Parwaz e Ishq said:


> You invaded Afghanistan bcz OBL was given asylum there but you yourself give asylum to our criminals like Altaf Hussain.


What?

Do you really compare Altaf Hussain to the terrorist network of OBL and al-Qaida?

Altaf Hussain got asylum while it was proved that Pakistani State was also involved in State level terrorist activities against MQM, where state was making thousands of false cases against its members, and killing and torturing them. Even Pakistani courts themselves declared thousands of such state made cases to be false, and they set its members free. Pakistani State is itself has to be blamed while nobody trusts in its justice system. 

Secondly, Pakistani State killed perhaps thousands of times more Bangali people in East Pakistan as compared to the killings of MQM. 

But still there are no apologies from Pakistani State for their atrocities against the Bangali people. 
And even Western countries are unable to punish Pakistani State for its atrocities against Bengalis, as nothing is Perfect in this world. 

Surely, western countries have not given asylum to MQM members while their INTENTION is to spread any terrorism in Pakistan, but it is solely due to the reason that Pakistani justice system is not good enough to be trusted.

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## Lehrasap

etylo said:


> Talk of human rights you want to talk about ? How many millions of people have you West mass killed and how many immoral wars have you the evil West waged against other countries in the world since WW II, from Korea war, to Vietnam war, to Iraq war, Afghan war, Libya war, Syria war and so on ! And how many wars have China waged in the past 40 years ? None. You think you people are innocent all together ? You think people in the world are stupid to forget what heinous crimes you people's ancestors did to others in the conquests and colonization of the world in the past centuries, you think you are not the direct heirs to your ancestors' criminal legacies that you people are still directly benefiting today ? The lands you European descendants,



What? 
We were talking about the Human Rights that were given by the Western (Civilian) Population for all those who live there (including asylum seekers from all over the world). 
But you intentionally take it to the wars of Government. 
And there too, you showed the double standards where you blame the wars of Korea and Vietnam and Afghanistan solely upon West, but forgot the role of Communist Soviet Union. 
You also forgot the invasion of Sadam Hussain upon Kuwait and solely blame West for attacking Sadam Hussain. 
And Bashar al-Asad and Qadhafi were also the dictators, along with Saddam Hussain and Taliban of Afghanistan, and it were Muslim population of these countries which itself was involved in wars against all these Muslim dictators in one way or the other. 

And you forgot Bosnia, where West attacked in order to save the genocide of Muslims against the Russian backed dictator. 



> Americans and Australians live today in the Americas and Australia are stolen dfrom the native people there ! Why don't you people return then your ancestors plundered and looted wealth and treasures to those victim countries ? Don't pretend that you are so dumb that you don't know these facts. You think that you people can just whitewash and forget your ancestors' crimes like snap of a finger ? Just don't be shameless hypocrites you Indians lick up to your white masters, you people are the most disgusting lackeys in the world indeed.



This is stupidity to ask the present Americans or Australian people to evacuate these lands due to their ancestors. 
I once again say so that you comprehend: The present generation of Western people is not responsible for what their ancestors did. 

I don't know if you are a Muslim in disguise or not, but do you consider present day Muslims responsible for the Islamic aggressive wars and Islamic slavery of the last 1400 years? 

Present Western people can only be held responsible if they don't give EQUAL human rights to the native American population or the native Australian population. And indeed, they have a humanitarian system in the West today, which is based upon justice. So, what to talk about the native Americans/Australians, even millions of people from your lands migrate to these Western countries today due to this justice system for which we are proud of, while you people are jealous and just try to undermine it by doing all type of criticism without looking at your own faults. 



etylo said:


> ... just BS ! Few brainwashed by the West people want to migrate to the West, that's their problem !


 Do really Just FEW migrate to the West?
And those who migrate, are they really Brainwashed?

You are a stupid person if you believe in what you have written. 

There are not few, but millions who migrated to the West.
And if they are allowed, then half of the Muslim population of Islamic countries will migrate to the Western countries. 
And when did the West brainwash them or REQUESTED them to migrate to their countries? Do you have any proof of such brainwashing or request on the behalf of the Western countries? 

The Truth is, the Western system is based upon Humanity, Justice and Equity and that is the reason that millions of people from all over the world want to migrate to the European countreis, and not any so-called brainwashing as you are shamelessly blaming. 




etylo said:


> Now, look at the widespread racial violence, hatred and discrimination against coloured minorities and immigrants in the West such as the US and EU, you should be ashamed of the conducts of you countries indeed !



No one is perfect.
Of course, there are a few problems. But reformation is taking place and discrimination is being fought against the colored minorities. 
And normally other minorities have no problems (except for perhaps the Muslim migrants, and they are also at fault while they refuse to integrate in the local society and want to impose Sharia laws in the Western countries). 
A big number of Chinese are living in US and other countries, and there is hardly any discrimination present against them. Thus, if Muslim migrants have some problems, that the blame cannot be put upon the Western countries for their non-integration as the Chinese have achieved).

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## Parwaz e Ishq

Lehrasap said:


> Muslim history of the last 14 centuries is full of massacre of other nations (starting from Banu Qurayzah), and taking their women and children as slaves and then raping the women.


Banu Qurayzah changed sides during Battle of Trench (They broke peace treaty with Muslims) . And they met their fate.



Lehrasap said:


> Are Muslims of present generation not beneficiaries of the looted war booty of their ancestors?


What?
Muslim Empires didn't loot their conquered lands.
Brits used to call Subcontinent 'Golden Bird' during Mughal Turks Empire. (i-e: Mughal developed this land instead of looting)
Jews were persecuted in many European countries but Muslim Andalusia (Spain).
Muslims conquered North Africa & developed it (development at par w.r.t that time) instead of looting like what France is currently doing.

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## khansaheeb

MeFishToo said:


> You most be spending alot of time fueling this hate. My guess is none of those alleged western crimes affected your life, yet you feel entitled to blame the entire western world of something some ancestors did.
> Honestly, I wonder why some of you are in such a hurry pointing your finger at the west, completely ignoring the history of the rest of the world.


tell us when the rest of the world killed nearly 100 million people in world wars?

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## Parwaz e Ishq

khansaheeb said:


> tell us when the rest of the world killed nearly 100 million people in world wars?



in PUBG 😛


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## khansaheeb

Lehrasap said:


> What?
> We were talking about the Human Rights that were given by the Western (Civilian) Population for all those who live there (including asylum seekers from all over the world).
> But you intentionally take it to the wars of Government.
> And there too, you showed the double standards where you blame the wars of Korea and Vietnam and Afghanistan solely upon West, but forgot the role of Communist Soviet Union.
> You also forgot the invasion of Sadam Hussain upon Kuwait and solely blame West for attacking Sadam Hussain.
> And Bashar al-Asad and Qadhafi were also the dictators, along with Saddam Hussain and Taliban of Afghanistan, and it were Muslim population of these countries which itself was involved in wars against all these Muslim dictators in one way or the other.
> 
> And you forgot Bosnia, where West attacked in order to save the genocide of Muslims against the Russian backed dictator.
> 
> 
> 
> This is stupidity to ask the present Americans or Australian people to evacuate these lands due to their ancestors.
> I once again say so that you comprehend: The present generation of Western people is not responsible for what their ancestors did.
> 
> I don't know if you are a Muslim in disguise or not, but do you consider present day Muslims responsible for the Islamic aggressive wars and Islamic slavery of the last 1400 years?
> 
> Present Western people can only be held responsible if they don't give EQUAL human rights to the native American population or the native Australian population. And indeed, they have a humanitarian system in the West today, which is based upon justice. So, what to talk about the native Americans/Australians, even millions of people from your lands migrate to these Western countries today due to this justice system for which we are proud of, while you people are jealous and just try to undermine it by doing all type of criticism without looking at your own faults.
> 
> 
> Do really Just FEW migrate to the West?
> And those who migrate, are they really Brainwashed?
> 
> You are a stupid person if you believe in what you have written.
> 
> There are not few, but millions who migrated to the West.
> And if they are allowed, then half of the Muslim population of Islamic countries will migrate to the Western countries.
> And when did the West brainwash them or REQUESTED them to migrate to their countries? Do you have any proof of such brainwashing or request on the behalf of the Western countries?
> 
> The Truth is, the Western system is based upon Humanity, Justice and Equity and that is the reason that millions of people from all over the world want to migrate to the European countreis, and not any so-called brainwashing as you are shamelessly blaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one is perfect.
> Of course, there are a few problems. But reformation is taking place and discrimination is being fought against the colored minorities.
> And normally other minorities have no problems (except for perhaps the Muslim migrants, and they are also at fault while they refuse to integrate in the local society and want to impose Sharia laws in the Western countries).
> A big number of Chinese are living in US and other countries, and there is hardly any discrimination present against them. Thus, if Muslim migrants have some problems, that the blame cannot be put upon the Western countries for their non-integration as the Chinese have achieved).


So what you are saying is benefitting from crime is ok as long as you didn't commit it? What sort of warped Indian ideology is that? By definition of modern law it makes you into an accessory:-"An accessory after-the-fact is *someone who, knowing a crime was committed, receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the offender or in any manner aids them to escape arrest or punishment*."

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## Hack-Hook

Nuclear Clown said:


> You don't seem to get how SAM systems work...
> You know, Patriot's PAC-3 ranges only 20km and PAC-3MSE 35km
> Buk is just good at shooting down airliners like the MH-17, the Tu-22M and eventually heavily loaded Su-25 that end stuck under 5G manoeuvres:
> Buk has very heavy 690kg missiles that only do 19-20 G manoeuvres, and 24 G for the latest 9M317 missile.You need to pull the quarter a missile can manoeuvre to dodge it. I suppose that the UkrAF MiG-29 shot down in 2016 was probably heavily loaded too, or simply w.o. RWR like all the jets sold 2nd hand by Belarus, BTW, the AMRAAM long range record kill was an ex-Belarus MiG-29 owned y Serbia.
> I'm extremely dubious about the claimed results over Syria against Tomahawk missiles as well as against Israeli weapons. Why?
> - With a target acquisition between 60m and 25,000m altitude, how do you lock-on a terrain-hugging cruise missile at 10-30m?
> - On near all of videos of alleged interceptions of Israeli aerial weapons on SANA [Syria] TV, you don't see a secondary blast and the explosion is timed about the same time the Buk or the Pantsir reaches its max range and self destroys... Moreover, RosoboronExport boasts positive tests against Scuds and heavy artillery rockets, unserstand: similar to the large Weishi WS-41 AKA M-302 AKA Khaibar-1.
> The capabilities of the IRIS-T SL are way more extended...
> Thus, I'd have opted for the MICA-VL especially with the MICA-NG getting 50% more range and new seekers: the IRIS-T may be a little more manoeuvrable with 60G vs 50G, which aerial target can do 12.5G dodging manoeuvres? For the remainder, capabilities are rather similar but MICA-NG has longer range than AMRAAM-C and obsolete MICA is on par with AMRAAM-B but with about the double no escape zone of the AMRAAM-C, moreover, MICA-NG adds a dual pulse engine, so expect fuel to be left rather close to the max range. MICA may also re-lock if dodged and both do U-turns. No known jamming method, if you're in the NEZ, you have a "Looney Tunes" missile after you and you'll be toasted.
> 
> Visibly, IRIS-T missile can also be loaded into NASAMS and AMRAAM seems not so great against cruise missiles.


only if i knew who gave you that nonsense information on how AA missile works.


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Numb numb, if he doesn't invade Ukraine, NATO will expand further into central Asia, it will be at our borders. Absolute power is dangerous, you as a Vietnamnese should opt for a multipolar world so each superpower will balance out each other and smaller countries can get a better deal. Putin is not stupid, NATO gave him no choice.


Sounds good balancing great powers. However that is theory, never existing in reality. As small fishes you are at the mercy of great sharks. Where is the balance between Russia and Georgia? Between China and Philippines?
NATO is expanding because small countries want to join not because the US wants the expansion.

Putin attacks Ukraine just because of greediness. He seeks lands, resources, people. He is just a thief. NATO, Nazi, oppressing of ethnics, all lame excuses. When Japan invaded China the Japanese had similar excuses.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> tell us when the rest of the world killed nearly 100 million people in world wars?


The rest of the world participated in the killings during the World Wars.
That is why they were called World Wars.
The responsibility for the wars lies with Germany, the Soviet Union and Japan.
Most of ”the West” were fighting them.



khansaheeb said:


> So what you are saying is benefitting from crime is ok as long as you didn't commit it? What sort of warped Indian ideology is that? By definition of modern law it makes you into an accessry:-"An accessory after-the-fact is *someone who, knowing a crime was committed, receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the offender or in any manner aids them to escape arrest or punishment*."


As You live in the United Kingdom, You obviously ”benefit” from the colonial past.
What have You done to compensate the world for your crime as an accessory?


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> if buk can't that missile also don't change it much . buk engage up to 40km away and at altitude of around 27km


Iris has the same range. So what is the difference between Iris and Buk? What makes Iris better? You don’t know? I give you a hint: it’s like when you buy a German car and Russia car. When driving a German car you feel great. In Russia car you don’t feel so much greatness. Your life is at risk.


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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Lehrasap said:


> What?
> We were talking about the Human Rights that were given by the Western (Civilian) Population for all those who live there (including asylum seekers from all over the world).
> But you intentionally take it to the wars of Government.
> And there too, you showed the double standards where you blame the wars of Korea and Vietnam and Afghanistan solely upon West, but forgot the role of Communist Soviet Union.
> You also forgot the invasion of Sadam Hussain upon Kuwait and solely blame West for attacking Sadam Hussain.
> And Bashar al-Asad and Qadhafi were also the dictators, along with Saddam Hussain and Taliban of Afghanistan, and it were Muslim population of these countries which itself was involved in wars against all these Muslim dictators in one way or the other.
> 
> And you forgot Bosnia, where West attacked in order to save the genocide of Muslims against the Russian backed dictator.
> 
> 
> 
> This is stupidity to ask the present Americans or Australian people to evacuate these lands due to their ancestors.
> I once again say so that you comprehend: The present generation of Western people is not responsible for what their ancestors did.
> 
> I don't know if you are a Muslim in disguise or not, but do you consider present day Muslims responsible for the Islamic aggressive wars and Islamic slavery of the last 1400 years?
> 
> Present Western people can only be held responsible if they don't give EQUAL human rights to the native American population or the native Australian population. And indeed, they have a humanitarian system in the West today, which is based upon justice. So, what to talk about the native Americans/Australians, even millions of people from your lands migrate to these Western countries today due to this justice system for which we are proud of, while you people are jealous and just try to undermine it by doing all type of criticism without looking at your own faults.
> 
> 
> Do really Just FEW migrate to the West?
> And those who migrate, are they really Brainwashed?
> 
> You are a stupid person if you believe in what you have written.
> 
> There are not few, but millions who migrated to the West.
> And if they are allowed, then half of the Muslim population of Islamic countries will migrate to the Western countries.
> And when did the West brainwash them or REQUESTED them to migrate to their countries? Do you have any proof of such brainwashing or request on the behalf of the Western countries?
> 
> The Truth is, the Western system is based upon Humanity, Justice and Equity and that is the reason that millions of people from all over the world want to migrate to the European countreis, and not any so-called brainwashing as you are shamelessly blaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one is perfect.
> Of course, there are a few problems. But reformation is taking place and discrimination is being fought against the colored minorities.
> And normally other minorities have no problems (except for perhaps the Muslim migrants, and they are also at fault while they refuse to integrate in the local society and want to impose Sharia laws in the Western countries).
> A big number of Chinese are living in US and other countries, and there is hardly any discrimination present against them. Thus, if Muslim migrants have some problems, that the blame cannot be put upon the Western countries for their non-integration as the Chinese have achieved).



Sick and Tired, I am 'sap!

Revisionist history and world view...
a qualitative difference!

Take Belgium for instance... A small nobody really in Europe. And it's small but bloody history of colonization... as I said small!
Their colony too... perhaps because it was peripheral... so the atrocities never amounted to much... Take Conquista of Americas by Spain alone with unmatched bloodshed in history of mankind...
Combined West and just the last century alone it's civil wars amongst themselves and those of aggression outdoes anything in past 1400 years of Muslim MENA region in it's bloodshed, pillage and atrocities!

Colonial wars of aggression... the death, destruction and pillage has never really been reconciled nor an attempt made to quantify it in it's entirety(directly and indirectly attributed). Remember European Colonial states ruled almost all of Africa, entirety of Americas, Australia and most of Asia. Forget how those states or people existed before the invasion... What condition did Europe leave those former colonies? How constructively is it involved in their affairs now?
In fact they remain client states! Just take MENA for instance, creation of borders and installation of their regimes and cultivated leadership! Not to mention French Colonized Africa that exists to this very day!!! Europe still plays it's internal politics in all it's former colonies... involving them and their inhabitants in it's wars of aggression... using their resources and poaching their manpower as cheap labor!

So, instead of lecturing others... I invite you to start reading about your adopted land and it's history and how it came about...

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## Akritas

Parwaz e Ishq said:


> Muslim Empires didn't loot their conquered lands.


Of course they loot, great example was the Ottoman Empire, with countless examples such as the capture of Constantinople, Nice, Trebizond, Mystras, etc., illegal export of antiquities.






Plundered empire: acquiring antiquities from Ottoman lands – Bryn Mawr Classical Review







bmcr.brynmawr.edu


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## Akritas

Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev published a map on which Ukraine does not exist, and its territories are part of other countries. .
According to the map, the Ukraine’s territory would limit only to Kyiv region, while the rest would be under the administration of four other countries: Russia, Poland, Hungary and Romania.

Romanian Ministry of Foreign Affairs reports in a press release state that........ "_Such attitudes are part of the propaganda and disinformation tools that the Russian Federation has been using for a long time and that was amplified after the start of the illegal and illegitimate war of aggression against Ukraine_,”"


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## ZeGerman

etylo said:


> Are you Indian a blatantly liar for your white masters, no wonder the whites love you lackeys so much that you are being promoted to many CEO of western countries becos you people will clean the sh** for whites.


Nice. Racist much?



etylo said:


> All the wars that the West waged on the others countries since WW II are invasions and not justified, period.


Source “trust me bro”
North korea attacked south korea, iraq attacked kuwait, syria was civil war with very little inbolvement, mostly assad/russia really.
And in WW2 apart from germany and italy we have soviet union and japan as agressors as well.

But all these facts and details get thrown overboard by your fantasy of “west=bad” 
And “rest of world=victim”

Infantile…


etylo said:


> As for the millions from our countries who migrated to the West, absolute majority of them are for economic reasons since the West is more developed, only a few are for political asylum, you dumb ignorant Indian.


Ah leeching off the stolen western wealth.
Leeching of our hospitality.

Since you are so moral i will wait till you scream that they should refund this…


etylo said:


> Are you that dumb that you pretend to not hear and read about the news of racial violence, hatred and discrimination and even persecutions by the western govs for no good reasons against coloured minorities esp Asians these days in US, Australia and EU ? Are you blind or deaf ? Where the f do you get the idea that the coloured minorities esp Asians are being treated well.


Blown out of proportion massively.
If a society goes from 97% white to 50% white in 3 generations, you have a lot of interactions between people and also more friction.
Despite that, the social mobility, education, income chances are high. Chinese for instance are in a better economic class then whites…within 2 generations. This shows a great deal of equality and tolerance, despite the bad apples. 

Tell me your heritage? Then lets zoom in on minority rights and treatment in your region ok? It is often ATROCIOUs compared to the west so dont give such a big mouth?



etylo said:


> One more thing, how thick face is you Indian, the white lackey, in your opinion, what are being looted and stolen such as the lands of the Natives and treasures of other countries are indeed belong to your white masters since they got them now, these lands and treasures shouldn't be returned to the rightful owners ?


You do realise arabs and islam hained immense lands through conquest?

Can greeks get asia minor back?
Hindus pakistan? 

Oh your logic should only apply to the western whites? Ok buddy…


etylo said:


> These show how hypocritical and thick faced thieves these white people are, and you are one of them that is proud of their crimes and you are against the need for recourse, just a thick faced and shameless thief mentality that you have. And you scorn on the idea of the need for recourse on these Heinous crimes by Europeans such as stealing lands from the Natives and looting treasures from other people as stupidity, what a whitemen's f slave you are !,


West already is making apologies, sending back architectural treasures, and accepting minorities into their country as equals.

What the **** has your country of origin ever done? You think i do not know history of the millions murdered and enslaved by the turks/arabs/mughals? 

Your so called morals are mere crocodile tears. They apply only till where it benefits you. Its disgusting.

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## ZeGerman

Akritas said:


> Of course they loot, great example was the Ottoman Empire, with countless examples such as the capture of Constantinople, Nice, Trebizond, Mystras, etc., illegal export of antiquities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plundered empire: acquiring antiquities from Ottoman lands – Bryn Mawr Classical Review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bmcr.brynmawr.edu



Come on now, muslims never do bad things.









Barbary slave trade - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Estimate over million europeans enslaved. Many many looting and plundering. 

I means just see how kindly they developed and uplifted the town of Vieste:
“In 1554 corsairs under Dragut sacked Vieste, beheaded 5,000 of its inhabitants, and abducted another 6,000.”

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## NotSure

Akritas said:


> Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev published a map on which Ukraine does not exist, and its territories are part of other countries. .
> According to the map, the Ukraine’s territory would limit only to Kyiv region, while the rest would be under the administration of four other countries: Russia, Poland, Hungary and Romania.
> 
> Romanian Ministry of Foreign Affairs reports in a press release state that........ "_Such attitudes are part of the propaganda and disinformation tools that the Russian Federation has been using for a long time and that was amplified after the start of the illegal and illegitimate war of aggression against Ukraine_,”"
> 
> 
> View attachment 866567


Ah, i got it. It's a part of russian propaganda and disinformation tools. And at the same time it perfectly normal and ok, when the polish state tv showing a ukrainian map, with western parts occupied by Poland.


----------



## etylo

ZeGerman said:


> Nice. Racist much?
> 
> 
> Source “trust me bro”
> North korea attacked south korea, iraq attacked kuwait, syria was civil war with very little inbolvement, mostly assad/russia really.
> And in WW2 apart from germany and italy we have soviet union and japan as agressors as well.
> 
> But all these facts and details get thrown overboard by your fantasy of “west=bad”
> And “rest of world=victim”
> 
> Infantile…
> 
> Ah leeching off the stolen western wealth.
> Leeching of our hospitality.
> 
> Since you are so moral i will wait till you scream that they should refund this…
> 
> Blown out of proportion massively.
> If a society goes from 97% white to 50% white in 3 generations, you have a lot of interactions between people and also more friction.
> Despite that, the social mobility, education, income chances are high. Chinese for instance are in a better economic class then whites…within 2 generations. This shows a great deal of equality and tolerance, despite the bad apples.
> 
> Tell me your heritage? Then lets zoom in on minority rights and treatment in your region ok? It is often ATROCIOUs compared to the west so dont give such a big mouth?
> 
> 
> You do realise arabs and islam hained immense lands through conquest?
> 
> Can greeks get asia minor back?
> Hindus pakistan?
> 
> Oh your logic should only apply to the western whites? Ok buddy…
> 
> West already is making apologies, sending back architectural treasures, and accepting minorities into their country as equals.
> 
> What the **** has your country of origin ever done? You think i do not know history of the millions murdered and enslaved by the turks/arabs/mughals?
> 
> Your so called morals are mere crocodile tears. They apply only till where it benefits you. Its disgusting.


Yo can deny all you Europeans' heinous crimes against other people in the past centuries and blame others for your West's unjustified wars on others since WW II. You German or Dutch has the least right to lecture others in the world about morals and racism in condescending manner since you people committed the worst and bloodiest crimes such as genocides and killings in the past centuries in your colonization and conquests. And, why are those looted treasures from the world are still sitting the British, French and other European museums now ? You people are just shameless, refuse to hand the looted treasures back to the original owners, that's all. And, you think there is no need for the recourse of stealing lands from the Natives and plundering wealth from other countries, just thief mentality. You European countries are accepting some refugees from the Mideast is becos you Europeans and Americans are responsible for creating those refugees in the first place by waging wars in those countries. You European countries are also allowing some immigrants to your countries is becos you people need work force to keep up your standard of living. There is no benevolence on you Europeans, don't BS how great you Europeans are !

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Iris has the same range. So what is the difference between Iris and Buk? What makes Iris better? You don’t know? I give you a hint: it’s like when you buy a German car and Russia car. When driving a German car you feel great. In Russia car you don’t feel so much greatness. Your life is at risk.


Engage fighters which flight up to 20km but buk can engage enemy fighter at altitude of 27km
Also range on iris is about 25 to 30km on buk its around 40km
Hope you now knew more why iris won't help
And let not go into one is infrared guided another is radar guided.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The rest of the world participated in the killings during the World Wars.
> That is why they were called World Wars.
> The responsibility for the wars lies with Germany, the Soviet Union and Japan.
> Most of ”the West” were fighting them.


Wasn't Russia your ally?
What about Italy, Greece, East Europeans?

All the world participating in the killing? Don't make joke it was Europeans and Japan that began the killing and attacked everyone who was neutral have you forget your history so soon.


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## NotSure

Hack-Hook said:


> Engage fighters which flight up to 20km but buk can engage enemy fighter at altitude of 27km
> Also range on iris is about 25 to 30km on buk its around 40km
> Hope you now knew more why iris won't help
> And let not go into one is infrared guided another is radar guided.


These numbers are nonsense. They are for an A2A engagement, so the missile already has ~300m/s speed + the altitude of the fighter jet. Second: Max ranges are for the head on engagement.

But as a SAM this tiny (88kg!) missile has a small fraction of the range, because it has first to gain altitude and speed. Considering the small mass of only 88kg i would say the maximum range is around 10km and so the max. altitude. Not more, because it's kinematically impossible.

The Buk-M1 is a complete another league with nearly 10 times (!) the mass. You can't cheat physics and this Viet spam bot has obviously a serious lack in education.

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## Hack-Hook

NotSure said:


> These numbers are nonsense. They are for an A2A engagement, so the missile already has ~300m/s speed + the altitude of the fighter jet. Second: Max ranges are for the head on engagement.


Well it's true that firing the missile from altitude and at high speed give them More range.
But let give them the benefit of doubt as they increased the diameter from around 130mm on air launched version to around 150mm on ground launched version.
Even if it was not for range Iris will have the limitation of infrared missiles

I still wonder why some people equal western origin of anything as being superior. They may be mere beautiful or more ergonomic. But better!??

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## ZeGerman

etylo said:


> Yo can deny all you Europeans' heinous crimes against other people in the past centuries and blame others for your West's unjustified wars on others since WW II.


Where do I deny it? 

I will not stay silent when others (also with bucketloads of historical blood on their hands) act innocent, and critisize the current europeans (who show high tolerance and equality) while their own countries of origin rank horrendously on many scores of minority treatment/freedom/social mobility. 



etylo said:


> You German or Dutch has the least right to lecture others in the world about morals and racism in condescending manner since you people committed the worst and bloodiest crimes such as genocides and killings in the past centuries in your colonization and conquests.


Why can i not point out wrongs (russia annexing ukraine..a country they horribly mistreated in past) ? 
Because countrymen 200 years ago were acting horrible? My own forefathers were dutch duck hunters and simple shopowners.

Nonsense logic.


etylo said:


> And, why are those looted treasures from the world are still sitting the British, French and other European museums now ? You people are just shameless, refuse to hand the looted treasures back to the original owners, that's all.


Severa is sent back. More so will follow.


etylo said:


> And, you think there is no need for the recourse of stealing lands from the Natives and plundering wealth from other countries, just thief mentality.


History is a spiderweb of nations stealing and plundering. 

Should turks go back to near mongolia? 


etylo said:


> You European countries are accepting some refugees from the Mideast is becos you Europeans and Americans are responsible for creating those refugees in the first place by waging wars in those countries.


Dont racistly pile all europeans together for mostly USA wars. 

And we accept hundred of thousanda of refugees, also from countries we have nothing to do with. There goes your slander.


etylo said:


> You European countries are also allowing some immigrants to your countries is becos you people need work force to keep up your standard of living. There is no benevolence on you Europeans, don't BS how great you Europeans are !


We are lenient to many refugees and migrant which cost us billions in net revenue. Fact that goes against your slander once again. 
Allowing moroccans to stay in the 80s when there was a crisis and they were mostly unemployed. 
Taking in so many low educated from vastly different culture…this is quite unique

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## NotSure

Hack-Hook said:


> I still wonder why some people equal western origin of anything as being superior. They may be mere beautiful or more ergonomic. But better!??


A lack of even the basic education in science, but instead an even bigger ego, because they live here in the west. So they think, they are some superior humans, the so called "Herrenmensch".

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## Lehrasap

All those people who today deny the Humanitarian and Justice system of the Western world are *UNGRATEFUL people*. 
They are brainwashed people. 
Many of them even live in the Western countries themselves. 
Many of them even take the social benefits from the Western States, but are still *UNGRATEFUL*. 

It was the SECULAR West, who hugged them and gave them refuge, but these ungrateful people put a dragger in the back of this same SECULAR West with this behavior. 

They are actually killing the Secular Humanity Loving Forces in the West, and they are empowering the Far-Right Western Forces, which have equally ignorant and humanity killer attitude as these ungrateful people themselves. 

When these far-right Western forces kick them out from their countries, then these same ungrateful people will start crying.

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## etylo

ZeGerman said:


> Severa is sent back. More so will follow.


Several is sent back, yeah, by this going, it's going to take thousands of years maybe to return the looted treasures, so are you proud now ?


ZeGerman said:


> History is a spiderweb of nations stealing and plundering.
> 
> Should turks go back to near mongolia?


Since you Europeans think you have highest standard of human rights and are morally right above others now, don't you think you people should do some recourse of the worst heinous crimes in human history of your killings, plundering and stealing. Others might had done some plundering and stealing in history is no excuse for you Europeans to escape from your responsibility from those heinous crimes since you people are still benefiting now from your ancestors' crimes. Don't BS how great you Europeans are !

Real Turks in history who lived near Mongolia basically have very little to do with current Turks in Turkey even though both are called Turks. Turkey is a Mediterranean country.


ZeGerman said:


> Dont racistly pile all europeans together for mostly USA wars.


Many of you European countries such as Britain, France, Germany and your country Netherlands also participated nearly all the wars that NATO has waged such as Iraq, Afghan, Syria and Libya wars. So, don't pretend to be innocent.

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## Soldier35

The footage of the fire support groups of the Russian army aviation was shown by the Ministry of Defense. The subunits escort military columns, fly out to places of detection of sabotage groups and cover army aviation helicopters from the air. In this video, the group flew out to check the car found by drones in the forest belt.






In Sevastopol, at about 6 am, an explosion thundered in the courtyard of the Headquarters of the Russian Fleet. There is no video of the incident, only a few photos so far. It is officially reported that the strike was carried out by a Ukrainian drone, and rumors are spreading online about a breakthrough by the Ukrainian army of the Russian air defense system. According to the latest reports, the drone and explosive device were improvised, a low-power explosion occurred in the courtyard of the fleet headquarters and shattered window panes in several rooms of the building. As a result of the scattering of fragments, 6 people were injured. Judging by these facts, it can be assumed that the drone was launched from the territory of the Crimea or the city of Sevastopol, and this strike is actually a local act of sabotage. The authorities have already confirmed that a homemade drone was launched in Sevastopol.


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## ZeGerman

etylo said:


> Several is sent back, yeah, by this going, it's going to take thousands of years maybe to return the looted treasures, so are you proud now ?


Its a snowball effect. First the notion did not even exist. 
Same how europeans eventually ended slavery. enforcing many arab nations to do the same.


etylo said:


> Since you Europeans think you have highest standard of human rights and are morally right above others now, don't you think you people should do some recourse of the worst heinous crimes in human history of your killings, plundering and stealing.


Apologizing, setting the highest standards in equality and opportunities. Allowing others in to become a multi-ethnic state. 
I think we are on a pretty good track considering where we started. Ofcourse always room for inprovement. 

I see little of this positive change among the “ummah”. We have several guys in this thread literally lying about how muslim conquest was beneficial and uplifting.

And then we should bow our heads when these try to racistly slander all europeans? 
For **** sake..look at your minority rights and migration laws hmmm? 


etylo said:


> Others might had done some plundering and stealing in history is no excuse for you Europeans to escape from your responsibility from those heinous crimes since you people are still benefiting now from your ancestors' crimes. Don't BS how great you Europeans are !
> 
> Real Turks in history who lived near Mongolia basically have very little to do with current Turks in Turkey even though both are called Turks. Turkey is a Mediterranean country.


Showing your double face again huh? 
Turks today shouldnt bear their forefathers sins but whites should. 

What an argument. Go crawl back under your racist stone

As for Nato wars named.
Europe has 30 plus countries, you name 4…guess “we all look alike” for you? 

But lets do the list.
iraq. Germany, france were against. usa lied to get more justification. Saddam was a dictator attacking kuwait and kurds. 

Afghanistan. Kicking out al qaeda terrorists. Very low human cost. Putting billions in humanitarian aid, improving afghan life. 

Syria. Hardly any involvement…assad vs color revolution with russia helping to petrol bomb cities…dont deflect blame.

Libya, Gaddafi. Another dictator. Again usa manipulation on “massacres”. 


We recently took in a lot of somalians, eritreans and erhiopeans, even some rohingya, yezidis. We are involved in some conflicts…but again you twist the truth in pretending the only reason we take in refugees is because they are fleeing “our” wars. 
Besides, helping afghans who were pro-western and now under threat is humanitarian….


Seriously, stop generalizing, stop your racism, stop your slander. 
Look in the mirror before you throw stones.
Especially since you are benefiting from our hospitality….living and profiting in a western nation…but acting like a hateful parasite.

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## etylo

ZeGerman said:


> Its a snowball effect. First the notion did not even exist.
> Same how europeans eventually ended slavery. enforcing many arab nations to do the same.
> 
> Apologizing, setting the highest standards in equality and opportunities. Allowing others in to become a multi-ethnic state.
> I think we are on a pretty good track considering where we started. Ofcourse always room for inprovement.
> 
> I see little of this positive change among the “ummah”. We have several guys in this thread literally lying about how muslim conquest was beneficial and uplifting.
> 
> And then we should bow our heads when these try to racistly slander all europeans?
> For **** sake..look at your minority rights and migration laws hmmm?
> 
> Showing your double face again huh?
> Turks today shouldnt bear their forefathers sins but whites should.
> 
> What an argument. Go crawl back under your racist stone
> 
> As for Nato wars named.
> Europe has 30 plus countries, you name 4…guess “we all look alike” for you?
> 
> But lets do the list.
> iraq. Germany, france were against. usa lied to get more justification. Saddam was a dictator attacking kuwait and kurds.
> 
> Afghanistan. Kicking out al qaeda terrorists. Very low human cost. Putting billions in humanitarian aid, improving afghan life.
> 
> Syria. Hardly any involvement…assad vs color revolution with russia helping to petrol bomb cities…dont deflect blame.
> 
> Libya, Gaddafi. Another dictator. Again usa manipulation on “massacres”.
> 
> 
> We recently took in a lot of somalians, eritreans and erhiopeans, even some rohingya, yezidis. We are involved in some conflicts…but again you twist the truth in pretending the only reason we take in refugees is because they are fleeing “our” wars.
> Besides, helping afghans who were pro-western and now under threat is humanitarian….
> 
> 
> Seriously, stop generalizing, stop your racism, stop your slander.
> Look in the mirror before you throw stones.
> Especially since you are benefiting from our hospitality….living and profiting in a western nation…but acting like a hateful parasite.


Oh yeah, you think you NATO countries are so benevolent and doing all good for them to wage all those wars on other people ? Don't BS. Who are the arrogant racist here ? It's not me, I am just pointing out the facts and your high ego can't take it. You still have the mentality that you whites own the world, and also the universe, right ?

The Turks in Turkey have very little to do with the real Turks 11 centuries ago who lived near Mongolia both genetically and historically. Turks in Turkey are basically not descendants of the real Turks in history who lived near Mongolia. What's there to compare the two "Turks" with you Europeans ? What's the double standard on my part ?

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## Nuclear Clown

Hack-Hook said:


> only if i knew who gave you that nonsense information on how AA missile works.


Just look at the disastrous records of Buk, S-200, and now, S-300, S-400 or Pantsir are FAR from shining... Except against airliners... But, you know that the missiles of the nuclear clown are just good at killing civilians, don't you?

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## Primus

Lehrasap said:


> All those people who today deny the Humanitarian and Justice system of the Western world are *UNGRATEFUL people*.
> They are brainwashed people.
> Many of them even live in the Western countries themselves.
> Many of them even take the social benefits from the Western States, but are still *UNGRATEFUL*.
> 
> It was the SECULAR West, who hugged them and gave them refuge, but these ungrateful people put a dragger in the back of this same SECULAR West with this behavior.
> 
> They are actually killing the Secular Humanity Loving Forces in the West, and they are empowering the Far-Right Western Forces, which have equally ignorant and humanity killer attitude as these ungrateful people themselves.
> 
> When these far-right Western forces kick them out from their countries, then these same ungrateful people will start crying.


I dont feel hugged when a randomer hurls racial abuse at me when i walk down the street

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## Viet

NotSure said:


> A lack of even the basic education in science, but instead a even bigger ego, because they live here in the west. So they think, they are some superior humans, the so called "Herrenmensch".


Are u really German living in Germany?
Interesting you call yourself Herrenmensch while cheering Russia war of aggression. A weird combination.

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## ZeGerman

etylo said:


> Oh yeah, you think you NATO countries are so benevolent and doing all good for them to wage all those wars on other people ? Don't BS.


yes dump all nato countries under one pile again. 

also compare afghanistan.
Soviet invasion. Millions dead.
Coalition invasion, minimal amount of dead. Billions in humanitarian aid. 

All these details go over your head. Your simplistic worldview.


etylo said:


> Who are the arrogant racist here ? It's not me, I am just pointing out the facts and your high ego can't take it. You still have the mentality that you whites own the world, and also the universe, right ?


Ehmm no. 


etylo said:


> The Turks in Turkey have very little to do with the real Turks 11 centuries ago who lived near Mongolia both genetically and historically. Turks in Turkey are basically not descendants of the real Turks in history who lived near Mongolia. What's there to compare the two "Turks" with you Europeans ? What's the double standard on my part ?


In 1900s we have pontic greek genocide and armenian genocide by turks current turks are decendant on.

Whole ME got overrun by muslim arabs. 

By your logic…they should give it back..well im waiting.

Blaming people for the sins of their forefathers…it just leads to more conflict.

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## ZeGerman

Huffal said:


> I dont feel hugged when a randomer hurls racial abuse at me when i walk down the street


But you do enjoy equal rights and protection under the law. Have access to education, social benefits, jobs. Freedom of religion. Are shown friendliness and tolerance by many. in a country that is WILLINGLY multiculturalising. 

And yes, there is a minority showing racism….poor you. 



What is your country of origin? Shall we compare migration laws, scores on treatment and rights of minorities? Rate of mixed marriages and the likes? Freedom of religion?








World Watch List | Pakistan Statistics | Open Doors


Are you looking for the World Watch List numbers unique to Pakistan? Read more about the level of Christian Persecution that occurs within its borders.




www.opendoorsusa.org

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## NotSure

Lehrasap said:


> All those people who today deny the Humanitarian and Justice system of the Western world are *UNGRATEFUL people*.
> They are brainwashed people.
> Many of them even live in the Western countries themselves.
> Many of them even take the social benefits from the Western States, but are still *UNGRATEFUL*.
> 
> It was the SECULAR West, who hugged them and gave them refuge, but these ungrateful people put a dragger in the back of this same SECULAR West with this behavior.
> 
> They are actually killing the Secular Humanity Loving Forces in the West, and they are empowering the Far-Right Western Forces, which have equally ignorant and humanity killer attitude as these ungrateful people themselves.
> 
> When these far-right Western forces kick them out from their countries, then these same ungrateful people will start crying.


You forget, the west even invented the fire and the wheel. Even the oxygenic photosynthesis was invented by the west 3 billion years ago. The west, the west uber alles.

We all must be soo grateful and bend over ourselves like you Jubelperser do ...

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## Lehrasap

Huffal said:


> I dont feel hugged when a randomer hurls racial abuse at me when i walk down the street



Dear, this world is not PERFECT.
Not all Western people are true Secularists. There are always some black sheep who show such hatred against others. 
I only request not to put the blame of these black sheep upon the whole true Secular West. 

Overall, the Secular Forces in the West are trying to make things better and better and more humanitarian. But the far-right forces in the Western countries oppose them severely. 

The problem is, some minorities are not integrating in society and a lot of problems are being created due to this. All this is used by the far-right forces, and they become stronger and stronger.

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## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> But you do enjoy equal rights and protection under the law. Have access to education, social benefits, jobs. Freedom of religion. Are shown friendliness and tolerance by many. in a country that is WILLINGLY multiculturalising.
> 
> And yes, there is a minority showing racism….poor you.
> 
> 
> 
> What is your country of origin? Shall we compare migration laws, scores on treatment and rights of minorities? Rate of mixed marriages and the likes? Freedom of religion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Watch List | Pakistan Statistics | Open Doors
> 
> 
> Are you looking for the World Watch List numbers unique to Pakistan? Read more about the level of Christian Persecution that occurs within its borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.opendoorsusa.org


Interesting. You clearly havent lived in the UK lol

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## NotSure

Lehrasap said:


> Dear, this world is not PERFECT.
> Not all Western people are true Secularists. There are always some black sheep who show such hatred against others.
> I only request not to put the blame of these black sheep upon the whole true Secular West.
> 
> Overall, the Secular Forces in the West are trying to make things better and better and more humanitarian. But the far-right forces in the Western countries oppose them severely.
> 
> The problem is, some minorities are not integrating in society and a lot of problems are being created due to this. All this is used by the far-right forces, and they become stronger and stronger.


Lol, your constant using of the word secular is pure stupidity. It's not about religion, the so called secularist, woke people here in the west are actually the most intelorant people against free press and free speech. They have their own globohomo religion and their fanaticism is on par with christian or islamic fundamentalists. Or jewish fundis.

You have no clue, what you are talking here about.

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## dBSPL

The Russian Black Sea Fleet Headquarters in Sevastopol was shot down by an armed UAV. According to the Russians' statement, they have 5 wounded. The navy's anniversary events have been cancelled.

This area is heavily guarded by the Russian layered air defense.

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## AZMwi

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552944748658319361


So according to your definition these will be US Nazis... right??

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Sounds good balancing great powers. However that is theory, never existing in reality. As small fishes you are at the mercy of great sharks. Where is the balance between Russia and Georgia? Between China and Philippines?
> NATO is expanding because small countries want to join not because the US wants the expansion.
> 
> Putin attacks Ukraine just because of greediness. He seeks lands, resources, people. He is just a thief. NATO, Nazi, oppressing of ethnics, all lame excuses. When Japan invaded China the Japanese had similar excuses.


Putin attacked Ukraine because those mofos signed into their constitution to join NATO. Wake up numb numb. If everybody joins NATO either through fear mongering, deceit or plain dumbness, there will only be one European power USA, controlled by a shadow Jewish canal.

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> The Russian Black Sea Fleet Headquarters in Sevastopol was shot down by an armed UAV. According to the Russians' statement, they have 5 wounded. The navy's anniversary events have been cancelled.
> 
> This area is heavily guarded by the Russian layered air defense.



Wow - and interesting - the Russian forces have had the advantage of not having to face much of a local resistance as the pace of the war has prevented Ukraine to be able to organise and supply a resistence force as their focus is still on conventional warfare.

This is why russia's occupation is not sustainable. The previous occupation of Crimea and Donbas was tolerated for fear of escalation and a lack of desire to start a war. That restriction is not there anymore - and over time as Ukraine finds its footing for what will be a long war - there will be more of these types of incidents.

Drones have changed the face of warfare - in ways that are still being learnt.

Interesting they went for a building and not a docked/moored russian warship.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553562638055096320

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## Akritas

NotSure said:


> Ah, i got it. It's a part of russian propaganda and disinformation tools. And at the same time it perfectly normal and ok, when the polish state tv showing a ukrainian map, with western parts occupied by Poland.


You will allow me to discredit the Russian sources of information, because this narrative was started by a Russian mass media.
Poland has given the most material european aid to Ukraine, and Putin's regime doesn't like that.



https://www.mk.ru/politics/2022/03/25/na-polskom-tv-pokazali-kartu-razdela-ukrainy.html


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553738751398002688

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Putin attacked Ukraine because those mofos signed into their constitution to join NATO. Wake up numb numb. If everybody joins NATO either through fear mongering, deceit or plain dumbness, there will only be one European power USA, controlled by a shadow Jewish canal.


So Putin is going to send rapists to Sweden, Finland?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553741172006338562
Russian losses have now exceeded 5,000

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## NotSure

Akritas said:


> You will allow me to discredit the Russian sources of information, because this narrative was started by a Russian mass media.
> Poland has given the most material european aid to Ukraine, and Putin's regime doesn't like that.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.mk.ru/politics/2022/03/25/na-polskom-tv-pokazali-kartu-razdela-ukrainy.html


1) That does not mean it's not true.
2) Polish russophobia does not mean, the polish regime doesn't want to grab the western part of Ukraine.

Try again.

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## Akritas

Han Patriot said:


> Putin attacked Ukraine because those mofos signed into their constitution to join NATO. Wake up numb numb. If everybody joins NATO either through fear mongering, deceit or plain dumbness, there will only be one European power USA, controlled by a shadow Jewish canal.


And finally he managed to get two countries, traditionally neutral, Finland and Sweden, to join NATO. If you consider this success, then we probably need to define the term differently.

Anyway, Putin attacked Ukraine because he thinks there is no Ukrainian ethnicity, half of Ukraine is old Russian lands, and he thought he would just ...walk around to conquer it. 

But like any authoritarian leader, when blinded by the arrogance of power, he slowly discovers that global geopolitical reactions are different from what he thinks. E.g. he did not expect such a reaction and military assistance from the countries of the West.



NotSure said:


> 1) That does not mean it's not true.
> 2) Polish russophobia does not mean, the polish regime doesn't want to grab the western part of Ukraine.
> 
> Try again.


What Russophobia are you talking about? 
Poles hate Russians for what they have done in the past to their country and people. 
Finally, the Ukrainian and Polish Presidents have made their stance clear: united against Russian authoritarianism and aggression.

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## NotSure

Akritas said:


> What Russophobia are you talking about?
> Poles hate Russians for what they have done in the past to their country and people.
> Finally, the Ukrainian and Polish Presidents have made their stance clear: united against Russian authoritarianism and aggression.


Sure, the Polacks as a innocent victim with their Pilsudski and other fanatics. Poland is one of the most aggressive and pretentious nations in Europe, so cry me a river, propaganda bot.

By the way: Their hatred for Russians do not change the fact about their plans to occupy the western part of ukraine. 

So: Try again.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> Wasn't Russia your ally?
> What about Italy, Greece, East Europeans?
> 
> All the world participating in the killing? Don't make joke it was Europeans and Japan that began the killing and attacked everyone who was neutral have you forget your history so soon.


You mean it was Europeans and Asians that started the killing.
The Asians started a little bit earlier actually.
Have You forgotten your history?

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## ZeGerman

Russia hits southern Ukraine city, killing grain exporter, governor says


Heavy Russian strikes hit the southern Ukrainian port city of Mykolaiv overnight and early on Sunday.




www.cnbc.com





Typical russia.
-
1:Sign grain export promises
2: bomb the house of civilian key grain traders…

(Next to already bombing the harbors multiple times ofcourse)

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The rest of the world participated in the killings during the World Wars.
> That is why they were called World Wars.
> The responsibility for the wars lies with Germany, the Soviet Union and Japan.
> Most of ”the West” were fighting them.
> 
> 
> As You live in the United Kingdom, You obviously ”benefit” from the colonial past.
> What have You done to compensate the world for your crime as an accessory?


So m


A.P. Richelieu said:


> The rest of the world participated in the killings during the World Wars.
> That is why they were called World Wars.
> The responsibility for the wars lies with Germany, the Soviet Union and Japan.
> Most of ”the West” were fighting them.
> 
> 
> As You live in the United Kingdom, You obviously ”benefit” from the colonial past.
> What have You done to compensate the world for your crime as an accessory?


Most of the deaths occurred due to colonialist white folks killing each other. The "rest of the world" was dragged in when they started losing. WW1 and WW2 were white men's' wars fueled and orchestrated to fill their criminal colonial ambitions. The wars were started by Britain, France, Germany and Austria. Japan was opportunistic colonialist and instigated by the European war.

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> So m
> 
> Most of the deaths occurred due to colonialist white folks killing each other. The "rest of the world" was dragged in when they started losing. WW1 and WW2 were white men's' wars fueled and orchestrated to fill their criminal colonial ambitions. The wars were started by Britain, France, Germany and Austria. Japan was opportunistic colonialist and instigated by by European war.


Japan attacked China way before WWII started. They were not dragged in.
About half of those that died, died in Asia.








World War II casualties - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Germany and the Soviet Union started WWII by their invasions.
Much like today, Britain and France got involved to stop them.

The main causes of WWI was Austria-Hungary and Russia with Germany pushing Austria-Hungary. Britain and France got involved as a side result.
Pakistan and India has been fighting ever since they had a chance to make their own decisions and to have You as a Pakistani complain is ridiculous.

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## Viet

dBSPL said:


> The Russian Black Sea Fleet Headquarters in Sevastopol was shot down by an armed UAV. According to the Russians' statement, they have 5 wounded. The navy's anniversary events have been cancelled.
> 
> This area is heavily guarded by the Russian layered air defense.


That’s embarrassing. Where is Buk?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553395918489124864

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Naval parades of Russia, Navy Day in three cities​






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553751056617717760

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Naval parades of Russia, Navy Day in three cities​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553751056617717760


Indeed, without their flagship its just not the same

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## The SC

*Urgent* Clashes between Serbian forces and Kosovo, and the sirens sound


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553791294476091395

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553789657493770240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553789866550362113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553792116832276486

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553783566059945987

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553804825388793856

Some Media claim that Serbia is preparing to carry out an operation to protect Serbs in Kosovo.

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## The SC




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## Iron Shrappenel

The SC said:


> *Urgent* Clashes between Serbian forces and Kosovo, and the sirens sound
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553791294476091395
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553789657493770240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553789866550362113
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553792116832276486
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553783566059945987
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553804825388793856
> 
> Some Media claim that Serbia is preparing to carry out an operation to protect Serbs in Kosovo.


F


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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> *Urgent* Clashes between Serbian forces and Kosovo, and the sirens sound
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553791294476091395
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553789657493770240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553789866550362113
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553792116832276486
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553783566059945987
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553804825388793856
> 
> Some Media claim that Serbia is preparing to carry out an operation to protect Serbs in Kosovo.



Oh. This is interesting, but none of the mainstream networks are reporting it.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553644971433000960

Russia is a terrorist Nazi state

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## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> 1) That does not mean it's not true.
> 2) Polish russophobia does not mean, the polish regime doesn't want to grab the western part of Ukraine.
> 
> Try again.


This is science fiction. 
Nobody in Poland wants to grab Western Ukraine. There is virtualy no Polish population there, and yeah, who is going to finance this ?

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## NotSure

Yep, googled it in german and english language and found not one news article about it. Now some articles here and there, but not one big german "news" outlet.

It's characteristic, how our so called free press is sleeping without an order from UKUSA and in other cases like the downing of MH17 they know the perpetrators after 1-2h ...

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## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> Sure, the Polacks as a innocent victim with their Pilsudski and other fanatics. Poland is one of the most aggressive and pretentious nations in Europe, so cry me a river, propaganda bot.
> 
> By the way: Their hatred for Russians do not change the fact about their plans to occupy the western part of ukraine.
> 
> So: Try again.


Poles are not Russophobic. Everybody remembers here the 45 years of being in the Eastern Block and well, these were not good times

Too make the thinking simple:
1. Russia is a different civilisation, so not always compatible.
2. EU = high quality of life, Russia = low quality of live, even with all the natural resources.

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## The SC

PakFactor said:


> Oh. This is interesting, but none of the mainstream networks are reporting it.


Serbian President:
I demand an urgent meeting of all countries at the United Nations because the situation is very critical.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553846315792142337
This is still local and contained..but might explode at any moment..

In the north of Kosovo there is a province inhabited by Orthodox Serbs called "Mitrovica", which is a dispute between Serbia and Kosovo, where Serbia says that its Serb residents are subjected to persecution by the Kosovo government and demand its secession and its accession to Serbia.


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> Serbian President:
> I demand an urgent meeting of all countries at the United Nations because the situation is very critical.
> 
> This is still local and contained..but might explode at any moment..


Vucic has predicted bloodshed and serbian pogrom in Kosovo since the 90s. He is a ultra nationalist and a russian puppet, asking NATO to act upon false serbian claims.. And its nothing but a dispute about license plates.

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## The SC

Russia announces the liquidation of 500 Ukrainian soldiers in Nikolaev and Kherson






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553329194574176264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552903607690960897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552611818866200576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552608408574070784
The place of deployment of 40 Polish "Foreign Legion" mercenaries was hit by the Russian guided missile LMUR Product 305E in Konstantinovka of the Donetsk People's Republic.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552007102373236738

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553471579220230144

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## gambit

ZeGerman said:


> *Not once was the coalition defeated on the battlefield there. And even with a skeleton crew it kept taliban in check. Losing only a handfull of coalition soldiers a year.*
> 
> Is that humilitating defeat?
> 
> Staying there holding hands of AFA for eternity costing billions is something we grew tired of.
> We left AFA with better weapons, material, and longer training and more men then ukraine….
> 
> 
> The humiliation is that despite 20 years we could not motivate these corrupt shits to stand up against taliban.


They know exactly that they have a flawed argument. But I let them go because ultimately, they have no influence outside of this little corner of the internet.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553471579220230144




Oops, what happened to the claims of the Western propagandists that Ukraine was winning? It is obvious no matter how many lies they told, eventually truth revealed itself. The DPR (Donesk People's Republic) is fully liberated. In other words, Russia achieved one of its main objectives: The full liberation of Donbas (DPR and LPR combined).

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553818769071521797

Russia's missile rain on all over Ukraine tonight


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553830701224660992


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553746807636860930


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You mean it was Europeans and Asians that started the killing.
> The Asians started a little bit earlier actually.
> Have You forgotten your history?


exactly which world war started by Asians.
have you forgotten tour history?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553740670937997312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553740768426213381


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## Dalit

Delicious. Well done Russia. In some other news, the Ukrainian ambassador begged Pakistan for support. All he got is neutral stance.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Japan attacked China way before WWII started. They were not dragged in.
> About half of those that died, died in Asia.


China - Japan , or Japan - Russia wars didn't started any world war ,it was just some war between two neighboring country the world war started by Europeans , when they decided why not export our war to other continents , why not attack other neutral countries.


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## Dalit

This is how it is done. Shock and awe.









Ukrainian grain tycoon killed in Mykolaiv shelling as Putin threatens 'lightning speed' response to interference | CNN


A Ukrainian grain mogul and his wife were killed after the southern city of Mykolaiv came under intense shelling on Sunday, according to Ukrainian officials, as Russian President Vladimir Putin used his nation's Navy Day to issue more militaristic threats to anyone undermining Russia's...




edition.cnn.com





The arrogance has been shattered. Russia was going to be beaten to pulp. We were promised that Russian economy would be destroyed. Russia wouldn't be able to sustain the war for a few weeks. Here we are. Not only is Russia sustaining the military operations. It is securing more land.

Let's have a look at Western and world economies in general. The Euro has been weakened badly. Inflation is going through the roof worldwide. Fuel and gas prices are being pushed back through cosmetic means. The threat of recession looms. Markets are stuttering all over. Global economic growth has plunged. The economic outlook is murky at best.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Germany and the Soviet Union started WWII by their invasions.
> Much like today, Britain and France got involved to stop them.


if you read your history book you , see that unrealistic terms of ceasefire at WW1 was what started WW2


A.P. Richelieu said:


> The main causes of WWI was Austria-Hungary and Russia with Germany pushing Austria-Hungary. Britain and France got involved as a side result.


before WW1 Europe was seeking a war , the powers there was itching for a war, when Austrio-hungarian heir to crown get assassinated , and all attempt of defusing the situation was failed because serbia didn't want to punish the perpetrators and as a result Austria-hungrian empire declared war on serbia 


> The assassination team was helped by the Black Hand, a Serbian secret nationalist group; support came from Dragutin Dimitrijević, at the time chief of the military intelligence section of the Serbian general staff, as well as from Major Vojislav Tankosić and Rade Malobabić, a Serbian intelligence agent. Tankosić provided bombs and pistols to the assassins and trained them in their use. The assassins were given access to the same clandestine network of safe-houses and agents that Malobabić used for the infiltration of weapons and operatives into Austria-Hungary.



European power instead of mediating to stop the war did what , gathered with each other and said why not , let declare war on each other and then attacking other countries who had nothing to do with this war.

and no franc , Russia and Germany all are equally responsible for the start of WW1 as they declared war in a war that had nothing to do with them



The SC said:


> *Urgent* Clashes between Serbian forces and Kosovo, and the sirens sound
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553791294476091395
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553789657493770240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553789866550362113
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553792116832276486
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553783566059945987
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553804825388793856
> 
> Some Media claim that Serbia is preparing to carry out an operation to protect Serbs in Kosovo.


europe again at it , right now they are thinking on how they can export this war to the rest of the world

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## Han Patriot

Akritas said:


> And finally he managed to get two countries, traditionally neutral, Finland and Sweden, to join NATO. If you consider this success, then we probably need to define the term differently.
> 
> Anyway, Putin attacked Ukraine because he thinks there is no Ukrainian ethnicity, half of Ukraine is old Russian lands, and he thought he would just ...walk around to conquer it.
> 
> But like any authoritarian leader, when blinded by the arrogance of power, he slowly discovers that global geopolitical reactions are different from what he thinks. E.g. he did not expect such a reaction and military assistance from the countries of the West.
> 
> 
> What Russophobia are you talking about?
> Poles hate Russians for what they have done in the past to their country and people.
> Finally, the Ukrainian and Polish Presidents have made their stance clear: united against Russian authoritarianism and aggression.


Finland and Sweden were already in the Western camp. There was nothing neutral about it, Ukraine was ex Soviet territory. If you can't see how dangerous NATO has become, then i have nothing to say. There could have been a peaceful Europe if boundaries were respected and interests taken into account. Russophobia and Sinophobia is a product of the West, they drum it up to justify their own aggression. The biggest threat to world peace is neither China nor Russia. Its US and his dogs.

Putin attacked because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, he gave NATO a simple ultimatum, sign a non ascension pact and that's it, he will back down. None took him seriously, the same with China absolute power for decades have given the US and their dogs a false sense of confidence. Look at the Pelosi episode, they are taking our warnings seriously now after Russian invasion. They know we are not bluffing and is caoianke of defeating them within the first island chain.



Viet said:


> So Putin is going to send rapists to Sweden, Finland?


Sweden and Finland were already in the Western camp for decades, Ukraine is Russias core interest just like Taiwan is to China.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553894569753845763


----------



## Viet

Dalit said:


> This is how it is done. Shock and awe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian grain tycoon killed in Mykolaiv shelling as Putin threatens 'lightning speed' response to interference | CNN
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian grain mogul and his wife were killed after the southern city of Mykolaiv came under intense shelling on Sunday, according to Ukrainian officials, as Russian President Vladimir Putin used his nation's Navy Day to issue more militaristic threats to anyone undermining Russia's...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The arrogance has been shattered. Russia was going to be beaten to pulp. We were promised that Russian economy would be destroyed. Russia wouldn't be able to sustain the war for a few weeks. Here we are. Not only is Russia sustaining the military operations. It is securing more land.
> 
> Let's have a look at Western and world economies in general. The Euro has been weakened badly. Inflation is going through the roof worldwide. Fuel and gas prices are being pushed back through cosmetic means. The threat of recession looms. Markets are stuttering all over. Global economic growth has plunged. The economic outlook is murky at best.


If the economy is imploding, about to shrink by 40 percent I wouldn’t say everything goes well according to plan.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552328896166641670


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> exactly which world war started by Asians.
> have you forgotten tour history?


Do you deny that Japan and China were in war between 1937 and 1945?



Hack-Hook said:


> China - Japan , or Japan - Russia wars didn't started any world war ,it was just some war between two neighboring country the world war started by Europeans , when they decided why not export our war to other continents , why not attack other neutral countries.


Asians attacked America, Australia and European colonies in Asia bringing war to Europe.
Suggest you start another thread if you want to continue this waste of time.


----------



## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553049444077240320
> Tucker Carlson is more informed than you, and he described the rat named Zelensky very well.


That did not even remotely relate to the message I posted....


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> well , good to knew there is no difference between PAC-1 and Pac-3 or F-15A vs F15-SE


Are you comparing a Patriot Missile Battery taht cost somewhere around 1 billion per and a F-15E fighter which cost around 100 million per to a Javelin missile which is somewhere around $70,000 per?

Again, you are talking about a disposable anti-Tank missile system, which their variation is between non-frozen battery (Or circuit, I don't exactly remember what's the first upgrade) and multi-use warhead. To a fighter jet and advance SAM system that evolve in theatre use?

Well, if this is your point then, well, I can see why Iran saw Javelin being a good deal if they want to copy it...lol

Meanwhile in the US.









Broken Supply Channel Sent Arms for Iraq Astray (Published 2007)


Turmoil, bent rules and signs of theft at a Baghdad armory help explain how the U.S. lost track of some 190,000 small arms.




www.nytimes.com





This is how we treated our Javelin System.

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Indeed, without their flagship its just not the same


WAs kind of expect the rest of the fleet suddenly burst into flame and sunk. Well, according to the Russian, that happened before........

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Do you deny that Japan and China were in war between 1937 and 1945?


they didn't involve anyone else , their own war , but russia , germany , france and britaian could not stop at declaring war on each other as soon as Austria and Serbia wen't into war



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Asians attacked America, Australia and European colonies in Asia bringing war to Europe.
> Suggest you start another thread if you want to continue this waste of time.


didn't attacked them till they put japan under embargo , did you forgot that , and that happened after Europe already exported its own war to other places



Nuclear Clown said:


> 🇺🇦 has no need to add air defences to shoot down MiG-31 : VKS is already bounced out of 🇺🇦airspace by... Soviet-era S-300 (upgraded to NATO standards) and likely by Buk in areas closer to the borders, NATO-upgraded MiG-29 received from Bulgaria shot down the so-called "mighty" Su-35 and ManPADS are slaughtering Su-25 and Su-34 that try to venture under the radars... It's hilarious to state that Russia is not even able to field countermeasures against Soviet SAMs which are totally inefficient against French jets, well, the new generation of 🇷🇺SAMs and jets too...Even little🇮🇱makes ECM that makes🇷🇺 SAMs useless and they have the population of🇨🇭with half of 🇨🇭size and money...
> This is what it's like to be a nuclear clown! You have big rockets you can use as dildos 'coz, as missiles, they are💩
> 
> 🇺🇦needs for IRIS-T SL, which is the successor of Patriot in Germany, is to deal with cruise missiles like the Kalibr, Kh-101, Kh-55, Kh-22, as well as ballistic missiles like Iskander, Tocha, Kinzhal...
> Wouldn't be my 1st choice : #1 SAMP/T-NG, #2 David's Sling and I'd put Elta EL/M-2083 or Sky-Dew to get long range low altitude targetting data


if you added two more smiley , your post would have become the embodiment of truth,

as rule a post with that much smiley have zero technical value , only a frustrated fanboy wished


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Are you comparing a Patriot Missile Battery taht cost somewhere around 1 billion per and a F-15E fighter which cost around 100 million per to a Javelin missile which is somewhere around $70,000 per?


no , when i dad that. i say as it seems some people think Javelin of 1996 is the same as javelin of 2020 and 2022 its fair to assume that its the same with F-15 and Patriot Air Defense


----------



## Viet

A big slap in the face of Putin, the hunger man

The first ever ship loaded with Ukraine 26,000 ton corns has left Odessa, heading to Lebanon.

Great thanks to Turkey









Ukraine-Liveblog: ++ USA kündigen weitere Waffenlieferung an ++


Die USA wollen erneut Waffen und Munition im Wert von 550 Millionen Dollar liefern. Vollständig auf Gas zur Stromerzeugung zu verzichten, ist laut Wirtschaftsministerium zurzeit unmöglich. Die Entwicklungen vom Montag zum Nachlesen.




www.tagesschau.de


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## Dalit

Viet said:


> If the economy is imploding, about to shrink by 40 percent I wouldn’t say everything goes well according to plan.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552328896166641670



Western economies are equally on the low. The Russia Ukraine war has impacted the entire world.

Western claims haven't materialized. Russia is still fighting and conquering Ukraine.



Viet said:


> A big slap in the face of Putin, the hunger man
> 
> The first ever ship loaded with Ukraine 26,000 ton corns has left Odessa, heading to Lebanon.
> 
> Great thanks to Turkey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Liveblog: ++ USA kündigen weitere Waffenlieferung an ++
> 
> 
> Die USA wollen erneut Waffen und Munition im Wert von 550 Millionen Dollar liefern. Vollständig auf Gas zur Stromerzeugung zu verzichten, ist laut Wirtschaftsministerium zurzeit unmöglich. Die Entwicklungen vom Montag zum Nachlesen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de



LOL Turkey has become a friend of convenience for Western powers. The Turks know how Europe treats Turkiye in the union. An outsider is what Turkey has become that won't be allowed to join the EU. The Turks aren't crazy. The Turks too are extracting maximum leverage out of this situation. Rightfully so. Milking the Western powers for concessions, but also keeping Russia happy. Some grain assignment leaving a port doesn't mean shit.

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> Western economies are equally on the low. The Russia Ukraine war has impacted the entire world.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL Turkey has become a friend of convenience for Western powers. The Turks aren't crazy. The Turks too are extracting maximum leverage out of this situation. Rightfully so. Milking the Western powers for concessions, but also keeping Russia happy.


Nonsense

Of course Turkey is doing first and foremost in her interests that’s nothing wrong with that. The Ukraine grains will ease Turkey food imports bills. However the grains will ease foods imports bills to lots of poor and rich countries as well.
So it’s a win win.

Russia is the loser.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> Nonsense
> 
> Of course Turkey is doing first and foremost in her interests that’s nothing wrong with that. The Ukraine grains will ease Turkey food imports bills. However the grains will ease foods imports bills to lots of poor and rich countries as well.
> So it’s a win win.
> 
> Russia is the loser.



So you are now celebrating a moment where grain left a port? You have set the bar very low all of a sudden. I guess Ukraine war realities have struck home.

You have no answers to Russian progression in Ukraine war. Russia is in control and setting the tone. Western powers are just spectators. If Russia was the loser it wouldn't be winning more territory.


----------



## Viet

Dalit said:


> So you are now celebrating a moment where grain left a port? You have set the bar very low all of a sudden. I guess Ukraine war realities have struck home.
> 
> You have no answers to Russian progression in Ukraine war. Russia is in control and setting the tone. Western powers are just spectators.


The bar is high not low you are dumb.
The 40 million tons grains will have a big impact on the markets.
In addition Ukraine can export coal, electricity to Europe.
War is back and forth. Russia occupation is relatively small if factoring the high costs, casualty to Russia army.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> The bar is high not low you are dumb.
> The 40 million tons grains will have a big impact on the markets.



LOL You can't even keep the energy prices low and you are worried about the market. Dude, we know how your big talk has amounted to nothing. We all remember the tall claims made by Western powers. Russia would be mincemeated blah blah. Ukraine war news is now a second headline in most Western media. Western people are fatigued by Ukraine war. They don't care anymore.

The best you can do is celebrate some insignificant grain consignment leaving a port. Meanwhile, Russia is pounding and conquering Ukraine as we speak.


----------



## Viet

Dalit said:


> LOL You can't even keep the energy prices low and yoh are worried about the market.


You mean high energy costs here? Well, Angela Merkel and many other dummies are to blame. But seriously, considering how many people die in Ukraine per day that’s nothing. I will pay 300 euros or so something more per year to energy. Now Germany renewable energy has reached 50 percent, in 2 years what we have today is history.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> You mean high energy costs here? Well, Angela Merkel and many other dummies are to blame. But seriously, considering how many people die in Ukraine per day that’s nothing if I pay 300 euros more per year to energy. Now Germany renewable energy is 50 percent in 2 years what we have today is history.



I am talking generally. Germany is not the only country dealing with higher prices of commodities and energy. Don't blame Merkel. The whole world is dealing with higher energy prices because Russia Ukraine war had an impact. See, your plan to economically squeeze Russia into submission didn't work. Russia is able to finance the war and has significantly weakened Ukraine's Zelensky. Despite Western support for Ukraine.

I heard papa America is now picking fights with China LOL Even that didn't go to plan as Taiwan visit is off LOL


----------



## Viet

Dalit said:


> I am talking generally. Germany is not the only country dealing with higher prices of commodities and energy. Don't blame Merkel. The whole world is dealing with higher energy prices because Russia Ukraine war had an impact. See, your plan to economically squeeze Russia into submission didn't work. Russia is able to finance the war and has significantly weakened Ukraine's Zelensky. Despite Western support for Ukraine.


Of course this disaster hurts everyone. That’s unnecessary.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> Of course this disaster hurts everyone. That’s unnecessary.



It is very necessary. You reap what you sow. If you think that you will spread fire without getting hurt you are wrong.


----------



## Viet

Dalit said:


> It is very necessary. You reap what you sow. If you think that you will spread fire without getting hurt you are wrong.


It’s like a rapist accusing a women she is beautiful.

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## BHAN85

Dalit said:


> This is how it is done. Shock and awe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian grain tycoon killed in Mykolaiv shelling as Putin threatens 'lightning speed' response to interference | CNN
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian grain mogul and his wife were killed after the southern city of Mykolaiv came under intense shelling on Sunday, according to Ukrainian officials, as Russian President Vladimir Putin used his nation's Navy Day to issue more militaristic threats to anyone undermining Russia's...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The arrogance has been shattered. Russia was going to be beaten to pulp. We were promised that Russian economy would be destroyed. Russia wouldn't be able to sustain the war for a few weeks. Here we are. Not only is Russia sustaining the military operations. It is securing more land.
> 
> Let's have a look at Western and world economies in general. The Euro has been weakened badly. Inflation is going through the roof worldwide. Fuel and gas prices are being pushed back through cosmetic means. The threat of recession looms. Markets are stuttering all over. Global economic growth has plunged. The economic outlook is murky at best.



West Europe would need one hundred recessions to achieve the level of income of Russian common people.

Russian economy of common people can't be destroyed because it's already destroy, it always was.

The sanctions are though to damage Russian ruling elite interests, the only few people in Russia with a acceptable level of life.

USSR collapse was due to Soviet elite liked to live as Western millonaires, they achieved bringing their knees to the West master.
Now they are in troubles again, and they know what to do if they want to go on in his disgusting life of spending and western luxuries.

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## Primus

How many Russian cruise/ballistic missiles have been fired at Ukraine now?

@jhungary 
@gambit


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554024132555157506
The grain corridor has been activated. The first ship left port. By the end of the year, at least 20-25 million tons of grain will use this corridor. The Turkish navy undertakes the protection of the ships in international waters.


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## NotSure

Huffal said:


> How many Russian cruise/ballistic missiles have been fired at Ukraine now?
> 
> @jhungary
> @gambit


Why you are asking these two nato bots? Do you really think, they know it?

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## Primus

NotSure said:


> Why you are asking these two nato bots? Do you really think, they know it?


Jhungary is in the military, so naturally i would assume he has some contacts that can shed some light on it. Gambit, i think hes in the military? Not so sure on it

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## Corax

Huffal said:


> Jhungary is in the military, so naturally i would assume he has some contacts that can shed some light on it. Gambit, i think hes in the military? Not so sure on it



How do you know they are in the military? because they say so? one of them has been proven to be a pathological liar with self proclaimed identity issues.



gambit said:


> They know exactly that they have a flawed argument. But I let them go because ultimately, they have no influence outside of this little corner of the internet.



And yet you and your ilk find this little corner of the internet so important that you seem to spend all of your time spamming your bile here lol on a Pakistani defence forum of all places!! Are there no redneck NATO forums in the US or Europe?

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## Primus

Corax said:


> How do you know they are in the military? because they say so? one of them has been proven to be a pathological liar with self proclaimed identity issues.

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> LOL You can't even keep the energy prices low and you are worried about the market. Dude, we know how your big talk has amounted to nothing. We all remember the tall claims made by Western powers. Russia would be mincemeated blah blah.


Source? 

Apart from a few US news items about russia economy/material running out, the “western powers” were far from optimistic.
Expecting this to be a Crimea 2.0.
a quick win for russia. 










U.S. intelligence agencies review what they got wrong on Russia's invasion of Ukraine


Ultimately, U.S. intelligence agencies underestimated Zelenskyy and Ukraine while overestimating Russia and its president, even as they accurately predicted Vladimir Putin would order an invasion.




www.pbs.org





So dont invent bullshit to suit your propaganda…


Dalit said:


> Ukraine war news is now a second headline in most Western media. Western people are fatigued by Ukraine war. They don't care anymore.


Support for ukraine as shown by polls remains firm. 
As a result current sanctions/weapon shipments will continue on for the time being


Dalit said:


> The best you can do is celebrate some insignificant grain consignment leaving a port. Meanwhile, Russia is pounding and conquering Ukraine as we speak.


This grain will greatly help third world nations not to starve. 
You dont care for that, and are happy to see russia flatten cities in their 500 meter a day “conquest”. 
You show yourself as someone of low morals…

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## NotSure

Huffal said:


> Jhungary is in the military, so naturally i would assume he has some contacts that can shed some light on it. Gambit, i think hes in the military? Not so sure on it


Ok, i explain it to you: Nato has no exact knowledge about the amount of fired cruise and ballistic missiles. And they can't have it, because they can't cheat physics. Even with their E3 Awacs they can't cover the whole Ukraine and sure not track or even detect stealthy cruise missiles like the Kh-101 at ranges 500km - 1000km or even beyond.

So it is impossible for the Nato to know the exact numbers of fired cruise missiles. Maybe not even semiballistic missiles like the Iskander with a very flat trajectory (50km apogee) and radar cross section reducing technologies too.

But hey, believe what you want.

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## NotSure

Corax said:


> And yet you and your ilk find this little corner of the internet so important that you seem to spend all of your time spamming your bile here lol on a Pakistani defence forum of all places!! Are there no redneck NATO forums in the US or Europe?


You mean like F-16.net, the place to masturbate to the mighty F-35 and how one squadron alone can repel an alien anvasion, because it's stealthier than the perfect vacuum and has the uber mighty "sensor fusion"?

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## Soldier35

The first ship with Ukrainian grain left Odessa. The first cargo ship Razoni loaded with grain under the flag of Sierra Leone left the port of Odessa on Monday. It became the first ship with Ukrainian food that went to sea in accordance with the agreements reached in Istanbul. According to reports, the ship is heading to Lebanon.






The Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled guns delivered earlier from Germany to the Ukrainian army are starting to break down, the German Spiegel news agency reported. Also, the Ukrainian army is already reporting this, as shown in the video. This is due to the fact that the Ukrainian military are firing from these guns literally many times more intensively than it is provided for by the technical regulations of 10 rounds per minute. One of the Ukrainian servicemen from the calculation of the Panzerhaubitze 2000 stated that the howitzer fired up to 300 rounds of ammunition per day. The guns do not withstand such operation, the loading mechanisms and barrels of German self-propelled guns wear out rapidly.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554076054435889152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554054634746126337

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554085536293441536

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> they didn't involve anyone else , their own war , but russia , germany , france and britaian could not stop at declaring war on each other as soon as Austria and Serbia wen't into war
> 
> 
> didn't attacked them till they put japan under embargo , did you forgot that , and that happened after Europe already exported its own war to other places


An embargo is not a war. Asians started their part of the war in 1937. Asians expanded the war to Asia, America and Australia (even though Australia sent troops to help the British). They made the mainly European War global.
You are simply blaming others for your faults.



Hack-Hook said:


> no , when i dad that. i say as it seems some people think Javelin of 1996 is the same as javelin of 2020 and 2022 its fair to assume that its the same with F-15 and Patriot Air Defense


It is actually very naive to draw such conclusions.
At least the F-15 has received significant improvements in electronics.

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## sammuel

Soldier35 said:


> One of the Ukrainian servicemen from the calculation of the Panzerhaubitze 2000 stated that the howitzer fired up to 300 rounds of ammunition per day.



LoL , what nonsense are you trying to spread.

Ukraine fires something like 3,000 155mm a day, You want to argue that 10 howitzers are firing 3000 shells a day ?

~

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## Viet

Germany will deliver 3x bergepanzer to Ukraine.

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## Viet

Soldier35 said:


> The first ship with Ukrainian grain left Odessa. The first cargo ship Razoni loaded with grain under the flag of Sierra Leone left the port of Odessa on Monday. It became the first ship with Ukrainian food that went to sea in accordance with the agreements reached in Istanbul. According to reports, the ship is heading to Lebanon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled guns delivered earlier from Germany to the Ukrainian army are starting to break down, the German Spiegel news agency reported. Also, the Ukrainian army is already reporting this, as shown in the video. This is due to the fact that the Ukrainian military are firing from these guns literally many times more intensively than it is provided for by the technical regulations of 10 rounds per minute. One of the Ukrainian servicemen from the calculation of the Panzerhaubitze 2000 stated that the howitzer fired up to 300 rounds of ammunition per day. The guns do not withstand such operation, the loading mechanisms and barrels of German self-propelled guns wear out rapidly.


The German Haubitze is designed for 3 rounds per minute, 100 rounds per day. by overuse the artillery will be overheated.
There is help on the way: Germany will construct a repair and replacement center in Poland. Ukraine will receive 100 more Haubitzen so they don’t need to overuse the guns in heavy battles.





Die an die Ukraine gelieferten Panzerhaubitzen 2000 weisen wegen der Nutzung schon deutliche Verschleißerscheinungen vor. © Philipp Schulze/dpa









Neue Misere um Panzerhaubitze 2000 in der Ukraine? Erste Geschütze benötigen wohl schon Reparaturen


Die von Deutschland in die Ukraine gelieferten Panzerhaubitzen 2000 zeigen offenbar schon deutliche Verschleißerscheinung und müssen wohl repariert werden.




www.merkur.de

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## Dalit

BHAN85 said:


> West Europe would need one hundred recessions to achieve the level of income of Russian common people.
> 
> Russian economy of common people can't be destroyed because it's already destroy, it always was.
> 
> The sanctions are though to damage Russian ruling elite interests, the only few people in Russia with a acceptable level of life.
> 
> USSR collapse was due to Soviet elite liked to live as Western millonaires, they achieved bringing their knees to the West master.
> Now they are in troubles again, and they know what to do if they want to go on in his disgusting life of spending and western luxuries.



We will see man. Ukraine is another Afghanistan for the Western powers.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554121041756266502


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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Source?
> 
> Apart from a few US news items about russia economy/material running out, the “western powers” were far from optimistic.
> Expecting this to be a Crimea 2.0.
> a quick win for russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. intelligence agencies review what they got wrong on Russia's invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> Ultimately, U.S. intelligence agencies underestimated Zelenskyy and Ukraine while overestimating Russia and its president, even as they accurately predicted Vladimir Putin would order an invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pbs.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So dont invent bullshit to suit your propaganda…
> 
> Support for ukraine as shown by polls remains firm.
> As a result current sanctions/weapon shipments will continue on for the time being
> 
> This grain will greatly help third world nations not to starve.
> You dont care for that, and are happy to see russia flatten cities in their 500 meter a day “conquest”.
> You show yourself as someone of low morals…



Host families have less enthusiasm to take refugee Ukrainians into their homes

Host families affiliated with RefugeeHomeNL have less enthusiasm for receiving Ukrainian refugees. A spokesperson for the Red Cross confirms this after reporting by de Volkskrant . "There are also people who say very honestly: the conflict is taking too long."





__





Gastgezinnen hebben minder animo om gevluchte Oekraïners in huis te nemen | Binnenland | NU.nl


Gastgezinnen die aangesloten zijn bij RefugeeHomeNL hebben minder animo om Oekraïense vluchtelingen op te vangen. Dat bevestigt een woordvoerder van het Rode Kruis na berichtgeving van de Volkskrant. "Er zijn ook mensen die heel eerlijk zeggen: het conflict duurt te lang."




www.nu.nl





I can post many more links if you like.

It is a joy for every person from the developing world to see how arrogant Western powers ars licking their wounds. Russia is litetally pouncing Ukraine and the West is watching from the sidelines.

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## sammuel

~


Russia needs more land from Ukraine ?









~

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Host families have less enthusiasm to take refugee Ukrainians into their homes
> 
> Host families affiliated with RefugeeHomeNL have less enthusiasm for receiving Ukrainian refugees. A spokesperson for the Red Cross confirms this after reporting by de Volkskrant . "There are also people who say very honestly: the conflict is taking too long."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gastgezinnen hebben minder animo om gevluchte Oekraïners in huis te nemen | Binnenland | NU.nl
> 
> 
> Gastgezinnen die aangesloten zijn bij RefugeeHomeNL hebben minder animo om Oekraïense vluchtelingen op te vangen. Dat bevestigt een woordvoerder van het Rode Kruis na berichtgeving van de Volkskrant. "Er zijn ook mensen die heel eerlijk zeggen: het conflict duurt te lang."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nu.nl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can post many more links if you like.


I was asking for sources that the west expected russia to crash and burn in a month….

Support is reducing in west, however not to the amount that the current politics of sanctions and weapon support are changing. 


Dalit said:


> It is a joy for every person from the developing world to see how arrogant Western powers ars licking their wounds. Russia is litetally pouncing Ukraine and the West is watching from the sidelines.


Support is at the highest level bar from actual direct military involvement.

Which few have a stomach for considering russias nuclear threath.


----------



## Lehrasap

Dalit said:


> I am talking generally. Germany is not the only country dealing with higher prices of commodities and energy. Don't blame Merkel. The whole world is dealing with higher energy prices because Russia Ukraine war had an impact. See, your plan to economically squeeze Russia into submission didn't work. Russia is able to finance the war and has significantly weakened Ukraine's Zelensky. Despite Western support for Ukraine.
> 
> I heard papa America is now picking fights with China LOL Even that didn't go to plan as Taiwan visit is off LOL



You are not wise enough to understand a simple thing, that our sacrifice is less or more, but we have to defeat Putin, otherwise Putin will bring many times more damage to us in the long run. 

And in fact, we have not sacrificed anything significant up till now, but you are making an impression as if we have already lost to Putin. 

You see, Soviet Union tried the same thing in Afghanistan, but failed after many years. Same will happen with Putin too. It will take some time, but Putin will come to his knees.


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## The SC




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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> We will see man. Ukraine is another Afghanistan for the Western powers.


We all know russia wouldve lost the war in Ukraine already, if the united west decided to fight conventionally along the ukrainians. Not a single western soldier is taking part (yet). The ukrainians are doing the fighting with relatively small donations of NATO hardware, and Russia are having serious problems reaching their objectives (whatever they are). Id say its a bit premature calling Ukraine a western Afghanistan when its clearly the russians whove dived neck deep in the manure.

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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> We all know russia wouldve lost the war in Ukraine already, if the united west decided to fight conventionally along the ukrainians. Not a single western soldier is taking part (yet). The ukrainians are doing the fighting with relatively small donations of NATO hardware, and Russia is having serious problems reaching their objectives (whatever they are). Id say its a bit premature callng Ukraine a western Afghanistan when its clearly the russians whove dived neck deep in the manure.



1. Russia is achieving its goals nevertheless.
2. Westerners got defeated in Afghanistan. Russia is a different ball game.

Russia hasn't even exerted full wrath yet. It doesn't need to. The current pace is?sufficient.

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## NotSure

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> Russia needs more land from Ukraine ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Ukraine is russian land since 1000 years, genius. Even the name says it ...

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## Dalit

Lehrasap said:


> You are not wise enough to understand a simple thing, that our sacrifice is less or more, but we have to defeat Putin, otherwise Putin will bring many times more damage to us in the long run.
> 
> And in fact, we have not sacrificed anything significant up till now, but you are making an impression as if we have already lost to Putin.
> 
> You see, Soviet Union tried the same thing in Afghanistan, but failed after many years. Same will happen with Putin too. It will take some time, but Putin will come to his knees.



Your insignificant rant won't make an iota of difference. It is for everyone to see how Russia is taking on entire Western machinery and winning. The fact that you guys have to sign into a Pakistani defence forum and argue with others on a daily basis is enough indication. This is the most hilarious part.

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## MeFishToo

double post


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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> I was asking for sources that the west expected russia to crash and burn in a month….
> 
> Support is reducing in west, however not to the amount that the current politics of sanctions and weapon support are changing.
> 
> Support is at the highest level bar from actual direct military involvement.
> 
> Which few have a stomach for considering russias nuclear threath.



Have a good look at many posts on this forum by Western members who used to brag that Russia would be defeated in a matter of few weeks. Today many of these members are rejoicing grain ships leaving Ukraine.

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## NotSure

Lehrasap said:


> You are not wise enough to understand a simple thing, that our sacrifice is less or more, but we have to defeat Putin, otherwise Putin will bring many times more damage *to us* in the long run.
> 
> And in fact, we have not sacrificed anything significant up till now, but you are making an impression as if we have already lost to Putin.


WHO IS US? You are an iranian immigrant parroting *angloid *propaganda with the aim to divide and conquer, both Russia and Europe. You as a Jubelperser (google, what that is) understands a shit of european Interests and history. Stop teaching people here about it.


Lehrasap said:


> You see, Soviet Union tried the same thing in Afghanistan, but failed after many years. Same will happen with Putin too. It will take some time, but Putin will come to his knees.


No it didn't tried the same in Afghanistan, complete different story, complete different background and so on. That's not apples and oranges, that something like apples and car tires or so. Sorry, but how uneducated and litteraly stupid you have to be, to say, Ukraine, which was 1000 years Russian, is the same like Afghanistan to Russia? Who teaches you such nonsense? Even the angloids aren't that stupid to say such things. This is on the level of ancient Ukropiteks 140.000 years ago invented the civilization ...

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## MeFishToo

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> Russia needs more land from Ukraine ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Watch GeoHistorys Origin of Russia, The russian Empire and the USSR. Thatll give you an understanding of Russia being the last empire left on this planet with a 19th century mentality. Yet none seems think thats a bad thing.


----------



## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> Ukraine is russian land since 1000 years, genius. Even the name says it ...


Actualy eastern ukraine historicaly more like since 1686:








Treaty of Perpetual Peace (1686) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Crimeria historicaly since 1783:








Annexation of the Crimean Khanate by the Russian Empire - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Anyway since 30 years it`s independend Ukraine.


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## MeFishToo

NotSure said:


> Ukraine is russian land since 1000 years, genius. Even the name says it ...


Lets be honest. Russia is Ukrainian land, using this logic.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554197143400890370


----------



## oberschlesier

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> Russia needs more land from Ukraine ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


It needs a zone of unstability on the borders not to collapse/change internally. Biggest country in the world with all the natural recources, but still a declining population and a stagnated economy? Hmmm, Something does not work right here.


----------



## KingMamba

MeFishToo said:


> Lets be honest. Russia is Ukrainian land, using this logic.


Actually yea lol, Ukraine can make the case that it is the historical originator state and that Russia sprung from its roots. 

Thats why i personally always say Putin is right about the history but has the roles reversed on who came from whom.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> An embargo is not a war. Asians started their part of the war in 1937. Asians expanded the war to Asia, America and Australia (even though Australia sent troops to help the British). They made the mainly European War global.
> You are simply blaming others for your faults.


your fault , middle east countries declared neutrality in the war , European attacked middle east ,and an embargo is declaration of war.
and again japan and china war was between themselves , you decided to make it global



A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is actually very naive to draw such conclusions.
> At least the F-15 has received significant improvements in electronics.


in 2017 the electronic changed , in 2020 warhead changed, in 2022 launcher changed


----------



## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> 1. Russia is achieving its goals nevertheless.
> 2. Westerners got defeated in Afghanistan. Russia is a different ball game.
> 
> Russia hasn't even exerted full wrath yet. It doesn't need to. The current pace is?sufficient.


You still believe Russia has anything else to contribute to this invasion? Putin doesnt dare mobilization. He is only left with the threat of going nuclear.
You seem to ignore that Ukraine is backed by the west. They can easily provide the amount of weapons and training Ukraine need for decades. It has just started, and Russia is already running out of options.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554150224586838019

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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> You still believe Russia has anything else to contribute to this invasion? Putin doesnt dare mobilization. He is only left with the threat of going nuclear.
> You seem to ignore that Ukraine is backed by the west. They can easily provide the amount of weapons and training Ukraine need for decades. It has just started, and Russia is already running out of options.



Russia has already captured strategic areas in Ukraine since the war began. Russia continues to make more gains. You are in denial.

Western weaponry and training has made no impact to deter Russians from confiscating more Ukrainian land.

We have seen that US/NATO doesn't have the stomach to fight long wars. Ukrainian forces are retreating many areas and the Russians are simply marching in. Putin has already won unless Ukrainians win back lost regions.

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> Russia has already captured strategic areas in Ukraine since the war began. Russia continues to make more gains. You are in denial.
> 
> Western weaponry and training has made no impact to deter Russians from confiscating more Ukrainian land.
> 
> We have seen that US/NATO doesn't have the stomach to fight long wars. Ukrainian forces are retreating many areas and the Russians are simply marching in.


Exactly which stratigic areas are you talking about, besides Kherson? Russia is running an oppotunistic operation right now, claiming stratigic objectives have been reached where ever russian forces make small gains.
They are basically fighting over less than 1 km2 of cornfields per day hardly ever leaving roads.
NATO is still not in this fight, so forget about this russian narrative. You and I both know Russia wouldve been long gone from Ukraine IF NATO was part of this war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554220893336993792

In other huge news, Rest in Pieces

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## NotSure

MeFishToo said:


> Lets be honest. Russia is Ukrainian land, using this logic.


That's not my logic, that's your retarded logic on ukropitek level. The fact, that Russia later moved their capitals more eastwards does not make Ukraine to an another country. Not even a country. Even the name itself, Ukraine, originated much later and says everything: Borderland. Inside Russia, you genius of epic proportions ...

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## That Guy

Dalit said:


> Your insignificant rant won't make an iota of difference. It is for everyone to see how Russia is taking on entire Western machinery and winning. The fact that you guys have to sign into a Pakistani defence forum and argue with others on a daily basis is enough indication. This is the most hilarious part.


If you call this winning for Russia, then hats off to NATO for doing a damn good job of turning Russia into a global joke, and pushing it towards the edge of economic collapse, making a Russian victory absolutely worthless.

By the way, economic collapses don't happen overnight, especially when it comes to previously strong economies.

Russia has lost too much for incremental gains that are completely reversible. Tens of thousands dead, thousands of valuable equipment destroyed, loss of major capabilities, and helping NATO test advanced equipment and military tactics against them in a conventual war using Ukraine.

We're now seeing what I said would happen, Ukraine is now pushing Russia in Kherson, and making it difficult for Russia to hold territory to hold territory they've gained in Donetsk.

Win or lose, Russia is screwed. It's no longer a threat to the world order.

This is why you don't let spies plan war.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554100388575551488
hehehe

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## F-22Raptor

MeFishToo said:


> Exactly which stratigic areas are you talking about, besides Kherson? Russia is running an oppotunistic operation right now, claiming stratigic objectives have been reached where ever russian forces make small gains.
> They are basically fighting over less than 1 km2 of cornfields per day hardly ever leaving roads.
> NATO is still not in this fight, so forget about this russian narrative. You and I both know Russia wouldve been long gone from Ukraine IF NATO was part of this war.




The US/West are destroying Russia at minimal cost. 

The US hasn't given any of its Abrams, Bradleys, Strykers, M109s, M270s, Apaches.....and just a handful of its HIMARS, M777s. 

Russia will get run over if the US got involved.

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## Dalit

That Guy said:


> If you call this winning for Russia, then hats off to NATO for doing a damn good job of turning Russia into a global joke, and pushing it towards the edge of economic collapse, making a Russian victory absolutely worthless.
> 
> By the way, economic collapses don't happen overnight, especially when it comes to previously strong economitona.
> 
> Russia has lost too much for incremental gains that are completely reversible. Tens of thousands dead, thousands of valuable equipment destroyed, loss of major capabilities, and helping NATO test advanced equipment and military tactics against them in a conventual war using Ukraine.
> 
> We're now seeing what I said would happen, Ukraine is now pushing Russia in Kherson, and making it difficult for Russia to hold territory to hold territory they've gained in Donetsk.
> 
> Win or lose, Russia is screwed. It's no longer a threat to the world order.
> 
> This is why you don't let spies plan war.



Russian economy is still standing despite taking an expected hit from many fronts. Russia is able to finance and continue the war. That is impressive to say the least when Russia is being economically sanctioned from so many sides.

Let's talk about Western economies that are being impacted by the Ukraine war. Weren't these economies supposed to be superior and immune to Russian interventions? If you point a finger to Russia's weakened economy others are pointing fingers at deflated Western economies. As far as I see, the war is impacting all sides.

Russia has already taken control over large swathes of strategic Ukrainian land. More is on its way. That is absolute victory for Russia. Nothing else matters.



F-22Raptor said:


> The US/West are destroying Russia at minimal cost.
> 
> The US hasn't given any of its Abrams, Bradleys, Strykers, M109s, M270s, Apaches.....and just a handful of its HIMARS, M777s.
> 
> Russia will get run over if the US got involved.



The US can't fight against Russia or anyone. You have too many fronts. China is waiting to pounce on US mistakes. Let Pelosi visit Taiwan and let's see what happens next. Russia is least of your worries.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554238347836620801


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554220893336993792
> 
> In other huge news, Rest in Pieces



Al-Zawahiri isn't Russia.


----------



## The SC

President of Serbia..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554219496478474240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554218011296415747

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554213880703979521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554213798122225664

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554213675292102657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554213272798232578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554203732115701761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554186551491444736


----------



## That Guy

Dalit said:


> Russian economy is still standing despite taking an expected hit from many fronts. Russia is able to finance and continue the war. That is impressive to say the least when Russia is being economically sanctioned from so many sides.
> 
> Let's talk about Western economies that are being impacted by the Ukraine war. Weren't these economies supposed to be superior and immune to Russian interventions? If you point a finger to Russia's weakened economy others are pointing fingers at deflated Western economies. As far as I see, the war is impacting all sides.
> 
> Russia has already taken control over large swathes of strategic Ukrainian land. More is on its way. That is absolute victory for Russia. Nothing else matters.
> 
> 
> 
> The US can't fight against Russia or anyone. You have too many fronts. China is waiting to pounce on US mistakes. Let Pelosi visit Taiwan and let's see what happens next. Russia is least of your worries.


It's standing due to artificial means, Russia's economy is imploding as investments dry up, and Russia runs out of cash quickly.

It's not impressive, it's the exact same thing that Nawas Sharif did during his tenure, before we found out that he was manipulating the numbers to make the economy seem stronger than it actually was.

A trick even I fell for.

Literally, no one with a brain was saying that Russian sanction wouldnt hurt, but the deflation has more to do with years of dealing with lock downs, as well as dealing with austerity as debt balloons across NA and EU.

The war just made worse what was already happening.

Russian as seized territory, but control is still tenuous at best, as we're seeing Russian suffering casualties in areas deep inside Russia's claimed control, meaning we're seeing a heavy amount of partisan warfare.

This idea that Russia is dominating is a myth. The truth is that Russia is suffering unsustainable losses to gain territory, while Ukraine is being careful and retreating when they deem they'll lose too many men defending territory, and would rather lure Russian forces into traps, or make Russia pay heavy costs for taking territory using long range artillery and UCAVs.

Kherson is now under threat, and I fully predict that Russia will lose it soon. The Russians know this, which is why they're diverting forces towards kherson from Donetsk, which means Russia's Donetsk forces are getting more and more stretched as well, thus weaker.

Temporarily gaining territory isn't how you win wars, forcing your opponent to suffer significant losses is how you do so, which is exactly what Ukraine is doing to Russia.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554184304393166850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554183666422652930
????????

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554183548059385857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554183048849235969


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554192348556451840

Potentially the first footage of a Phoenix Ghost strike


----------



## Viet

Dalit said:


> Russian economy is still standing despite taking an expected hit from many fronts. Russia is able to finance and continue the war. That is impressive to say the least when Russia is being economically sanctioned from so many sides.
> 
> Let's talk about Western economies that are being impacted by the Ukraine war. Weren't these economies supposed to be superior and immune to Russian interventions? If you point a finger to Russia's weakened economy others are pointing fingers at deflated Western economies. As far as I see, the war is impacting all sides.
> 
> Russia has already taken control over large swathes of strategic Ukrainian land. More is on its way. That is absolute victory for Russia. Nothing else matters.
> 
> 
> 
> The US can't fight against Russia or anyone. You have too many fronts. China is waiting to pounce on US mistakes. Let Pelosi visit Taiwan and let's see what happens next. Russia is least of your worries.


Russia economy is full in chinese hands. There is nothing to be proud of. Putin will knee his way to Beijing if Xi Jinping has a bad day.
As for Russian land grabbing, this war of attrition will continue for years. Let’s see who has the longer breath. Russia strategy is taking more lands, Ukraine strategy is killing more Russians.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> your fault , middle east countries declared neutrality in the war , European attacked middle east ,and an embargo is declaration of war.
> and again japan and china war was between themselves , you decided to make it global
> 
> 
> in 2017 the electronic changed , in 2020 warhead changed, in 2022 launcher changed


An embargo is not an act of war. That is simply refusal to trade. You are mixing it up with a blockade. This makes Asia the region that brought Asia, Australia and America into the war.
According to Your argumentation ME neutrality is unimportant, or do You claim that no European country declared neutrality?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554220893336993792
> 
> In other huge news, Rest in Pieces



Biden and company must be desperate if they're trying to resurrect a guy who died in 2020, and then claim as if they took him out 2 years later. 👇









Al-Qaeda chief Zawahiri has died in Afghanistan — sources


ISLAMABAD/KABUL: Egyptian national Ayman Al-Zawahiri, 69, has died in Afghanistan likely of natural causes, several sources in Pakistan and Afghanistan told Arab News this week, just days after reports of the Al-Qaeda leader’s passing made the rounds on social media. Zawahiri’s last appearance...




www.arabnews.pk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554154460506726404

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553721702634627072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554209946169925636
Karkiv.. Izyum front..


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## The SC

The Secretary-General of the United Nations warns: the world is one step away from "nuclear annihilation".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554137774659362817


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## Viet

Ah cool
Good initiative
Ukraine families getting container homes as replacement when their homes getting destroyed by Russia terror bombings.







Viktor Kyrylenko shows a cellar where he stayed during Russian shelling, Makariv, Kyiv Region, northern Ukraine.
Volodymyr Tarasov | Future Publishing | Getty Images






A modular home built to replace the house of the Kyrylenko family that was destroyed as a result of shelling by Russian troops is pictured in Makariv, Kyiv Region, northern Ukraine.
Volodymyr Tarasov | Future Publishing | Getty Images






A modular home built to replace the house of the Kyrylenko family that was destroyed as a result of shelling by Russian troops is pictured in Makariv, Kyiv Region, northern Ukraine.
Volodymyr Tarasov | Future Publishing | Getty Images






Ivan Kyrylenko, 8, explores a modular home set up to replace his family's house that was destroyed as a result of shelling by Russian troops, Makariv, Kyiv Region, northern Ukraine.
Volodymyr Tarasov | Future Publishing | Getty Images






Ivan Kyrylenko, 8, plays rugby with volunteers from the US near a modular home set up to replace his family's house destroyed as a result of shelling by Russian troops, Makariv, Kyiv Region, northern Ukraine.
Volodymyr Tarasov | Future Publishing | Getty Images

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## khansaheeb

NotSure said:


> Yep, googled it in german and english language and found not one news article about it. Now some articles here and there, but not one big german "news" outlet.
> 
> It's characteristic, how our so called free press is sleeping without an order from UKUSA and in other cases like the downing of MH17 they know the perpetrators after 1-2h ...


When the pack leader howls only then do the other hounds howl.

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## BHAN85

Dalit said:


> We will see man. Ukraine is another Afghanistan for the Western powers.



Ukraine war is no relevant from a world issues point of view. It's just a excuse for West/Russia breakup.

The important is the economic break up between Russia and the West.

The important is avoid Russian elite from live/make tourism in West countries and stop sell them Western luxury items.

That is what hurt to Russia elite, and that will make bring their knees, like it happened in 80s.

Russian elite dont care about if die one thousand or one million poor Russian soldiers. They care if they can't buy iPhone or Western expensive brands of cars and clothes.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> An embargo is not an act of war. That is simply refusal to trade. You are mixing it up with a blockade. This makes Asia the region that brought Asia, Australia and America into the war.
> According to Your argumentation ME neutrality is unimportant, or do You claim that no European country declared neutrality?


Didn't knew I must define the word.
Sanction is refusal to trade
Embargo mean an order by a common carrier or public regulatory agency prohibiting or restricting freight transportation.
Look at Yemen and you'll understand what is embargo



A.P. Richelieu said:


> This makes Asia the region that brought Asia, Australia and America into the war.


Europe brought Asia into war way before. Only one European country remain neutral and you knew why attacking Middle East countries was important

Oh and before I forget Australia entered into war in 11th June 1940 by declaring war on Germany and Italy pearl Harbour happened in 7th December 1941

And don't play coy with me in all 1939 & 1940 & 1941 you were the one who supplied Brittain war machine.
You were as neutral as you are right now in Ukraine war.


By the way does "land lease legislation" and calling for the United States to become an “arsenal of democracy” means anything to you
Neutrality my *** you were in war from day one

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554154460506726404



Literally 99% of this video isn't even related to Ukraine but I wouldn't expect much from people who believe Russia destroyed hundreds of himars already including one which was on a second floor of a building,LMAO.

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## Broccoli

Vergennes said:


> Literally 99% of this video isn't even related to Ukraine but I wouldn't expect much from people who believe Russia destroyed hundreds of himars already including one which was on a second floor of a building,LMAO.



Recently Russian posted video of weapon hitting on school buildings second floor and claimed it was hit against HIMARS. Then later circulated pictures of destroyed humvee ambulance as evidence that HIMARS has been destroyed. 

Who knew that a single weapon system makes Russians and their supporters panick.

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> Ukraine war is no relevant from a world issues point of view. It's just a excuse for West/Russia breakup.
> 
> The important is the economic break up between Russia and the West.
> 
> The important is avoid Russian elite from live/make tourism in West countries and stop sell them Western luxury items.
> 
> That is what hurt to Russia elite, and that will make bring their knees, like it happened in 80s.
> 
> Russian elite dont care about if die one thousand or one million poor Russian soldiers. They care if they can't buy iPhone or Western expensive brands of cars and clothes.


You don’t understand. If Putin had attacked Moldavia (instead of Ukraine) then Moldavia would be another Ukraine. Same result. Ukraine has a formidable army that’s only difference. Putin is just stupid. He can’t invade other countries as he pleases. Russia sells 83 percent of energy to EU. Just a tiny fraction goes to China, India and elsewhere. Now with the war Russia future is finished. Putin has undone all 30y economic progress in Russia.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> Didn't knew I must define the word.
> Sanction is refusal to trade
> Embargo mean an order by a common carrier or public regulatory agency prohibiting or restricting freight transportation.
> Look at Yemen and you'll understand what is embargo











Economic sanctions - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





”Embargoes are generally considered legal barriers to trade, not to be confused with blockades, which are often considered to be acts of war.”




Hack-Hook said:


> Europe brought Asia into war way before. Only one European country remain neutral and you knew why attacking Middle East countries was important



Plenty of European countries were neutral until they were occupied.
Plenty were neutral for the duration including Turkey, Sweden, Switzerland, Spain and Portugal.

While European countries brought soldiers from all dominions, acts of war were started by Asians. I pointed that out early on.



Hack-Hook said:


> Oh and before I forget Australia entered into war in 11th June 1940 by declaring war on Germany and Italy pearl Harbour happened in 7th December 1941



Actual combat in Australia was started by Asian air attacks.




Hack-Hook said:


> And don't play coy with me in all 1939 & 1940 & 1941 you were the one who supplied Brittain war machine.
> You were as neutral as you are right now in Ukraine war.



Not really. You must confuse me with someone else.




Hack-Hook said:


> By the way does "land lease legislation" and calling for the United States to become an “arsenal of democracy” means anything to you
> Neutrality my *** you were in war from day one



No, Sweden did not have any land lease legislation.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Economic sanctions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ”Embargoes are generally considered legal barriers to trade, not to be confused with blockades, which are often considered to be acts of war.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty of European countries were neutral until they were occupied.
> Plenty were neutral for the duration including Turkey, Sweden, Switzerland, Spain and Portugal.
> 
> While European countries brought soldiers from all dominions, acts of war were started by Asians. I pointed that out early on.
> 
> 
> 
> Actual combat in Australia was started by Asian air attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. You must confuse me with someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Sweden did not have any land lease legislation.


Australia entered war in 1940 way before being bombed. By Japan.
Ad European countries attacked neutral Middle Eastern countries that wanted to have nothing to do with war and USA was in war way before pearl harbor and its also the case of ww1

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554347526966362114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554347529403342851

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554347531559206912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554352722853363715

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## Lehrasap

*Hypocrisy and Double Standards*

The people here, who are supporting Putin in name of Ukraine being part of Russia for centuries ... these are the same people who supported Azerbaijan against Armenia, and there they refused to accept that Nagorno-Karabakh was part of Armenia for centuries, and the people living there were also Armenians. 

End of Discussion.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> no , when i dad that. i say as it seems some people think Javelin of 1996 is the same as javelin of 2020 and 2022 its fair to assume that its the same with F-15 and Patriot Air Defense


F-15E/F/SE made after 1990 is NOT the same as F-15A/B/C/D back in the 1970s, there are radar upgrade, HUD upgrade, endurance upgrade, targeting pod upgrade and so on making it a different fighter. 

Javelin in 2020 is pretty much the same thing as Javelin designed in 1989, minus the anti-freeze circuitry and HEDP warhead that you can use on Tank and Soft Target. The way it functions, the way it works is largely the same. Unless you are saying Iran lack the capability of making HEDP warhead and how to make circuit work in cold weather, it is for all intent and purpose the same thing. You have a warhead that launch on com guidance. And it flew over the tank and the proximity warhead exploded. This is how it work in 1989, this is how it work on 2020 Javelin.

Again, on one side, you are talking about a $125,000 Javelin system (Missile + CLU) and on the other you are talking about Multi Millions of dollars worth of F-15 and Patriot Missile. Saying Javelin in 2020 is MAJORLY different than Javelin in 1989 is like saying M72 Law made in 1963 is a different weapon than a M72A7 Law made in 2018 (Yes, they are still making LAW)

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## SIPRA

What is latest on war front?

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## Viet

SIPRA said:


> What is latest on war front?


The Ukraine army is on the move. Kherson obviously is the target.
Also, it appears the Russians withdraw 30 battalions from the Donbas and regroupe at the southern front to halt Ukraine offensive. Putin invasion army lost the momentum.








A Ukrainian army 2S7 howitzer.

UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY PHOTO









Is Russia Planning A Fresh Offensive In Southern Ukraine?


In the span of a few weeks, Russia’s southern forces roughly doubled from around a dozen battalion tactical groups to 30, according to Oleksii Arestovych, an advisor to Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky.




www.forbes.com

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## The SC

The Kamov hunts Ukrainian tanks





Ukrainian ammunition truck destroyed

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## The SC




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554366956106842112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554546758759419911

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554529610125254661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554529413513072642

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Australia did not fight in Australia, they fought in North Africa. War came to Australia due to Asians.


sick western mentality , you can come and bomb others home , but god forbade if they fight back at your home.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Asians has the responsibility to bringing the fighting to most of Asia, Australia and the United States.


no it was European who attacked middle east not Asian . and china and japan minding their own war they didn't export it to Europe , japan even didn't declare war on the countries which were fighting Germany according tho them war in Europe and Africa had nothing to do with them .


A.P. Richelieu said:


> The USA was not in War as President Roosevelt was blocked by Congress.
> Around 50% of the deaths of WWII were in Asia so it was not a minor thing.


usa didn't declare war , they just provided the weapon and money. is it good ? now that i look at it nobody declared war on Libya , nobody declared war on iraq , i don't kne but did anybody declared war on Afghanistan? and the death toll in assia would have been less if some body didn't imposed war on asia



The SC said:


> The Kamov hunts Ukrainian tanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian ammunition truck destroyed


well i say russia have skewed priority , instead of hunting artillery and that inflict the most damage on them , they hunt tanks . if it was me i'd have hunted artilleries and supply caravans and let tanks and infantry deal with those tanks


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554420324162506753

Huge HIMARS strike on railway station


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554519979315298304

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554520451535306756


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554540791795679233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554515005902671873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554491935041232904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554468271394590726

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## Dalit

Lehrasap said:


> *Hypocrisy and Double Standards*
> 
> The people here, who are supporting Putin in name of Ukraine being part of Russia for centuries ... these are the same people who supported Azerbaijan against Armenia, and there they refused to accept that Nagorno-Karabakh was part of Armenia for centuries, and the people living there were also Armenians.
> 
> End of Discussion.



We did. Deal with it.



SIPRA said:


> What is latest on war front?



The same old. Russia kicking ***.

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554540791795679233


I honestly doubt Ukraine even recieved 5 Harpoon launchers. This report is most probably completely made up.
To my knowlegde Denmark was the only country providing a coastal version of the Harpoon system, and I do believe Denmark only have/had 4 launchers in storage. They probably donated a battery with two launchers.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554411748257570818

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554365942922084352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554139412895875072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554499573460213760


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554170431338332161

New weapons package announced


----------



## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> I honestly doubt Ukraine even recieved 5 Harpoon launchers. This report is most probably completely made up.
> To my knowlegde Denmark was the only country providing a coastal version of the Harpoon system, and I do believe Denmark only have/had 4 launchers in storage. They probably donated a battery with two launchers.


The U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) announced $1 billion in additional security assistance for Ukraine. The package includes land-based Harpoon coastal defense systems. ​https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/06/u-s-sending-harpoon-anti-missiles-to-ukraine/


With Launchers And Missiles From Different Countries, Ukraine Assembles A New Anti-Ship Arsenal​https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...bles-a-new-anti-ship-arsenal/?sh=7f781ff5590d

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## aziqbal

those HIMARS have been devastating the Russian ammo dumps 

in Severodensk and Lycychansk Russia enjoyed a huge artillery advantage 

unfortunately the loss of the ammo dumps means less artillery and this is why they are struggling 

Russia needs to get those HIMARS out and is using local spies to visually report any HIMARS

I dont understand why a dozen HIMARS cannot be hunted by counter battery radars


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> The U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) announced $1 billion in additional security assistance for Ukraine. The package includes land-based Harpoon coastal defense systems. ​https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/06/u-s-sending-harpoon-anti-missiles-to-ukraine/
> 
> 
> With Launchers And Missiles From Different Countries, Ukraine Assembles A New Anti-Ship Arsenal​https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...bles-a-new-anti-ship-arsenal/?sh=7f781ff5590d


Notice the two US launchers would have to be build by Boing. Denmark had some decommisioned batteries in stock. I think they donated one battery with 2 launchers. I find it hard to believe those 2 US launchers have been builld and shipped to Ukraine already .. and 2+2 equals 4. So how did Russia destroy 5 launchers?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554494138233434114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554418877811023873

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## MeFishToo

aziqbal said:


> those HIMARS have been devastating the Russian ammo dumps
> 
> in Severodensk and Lycychansk Russia enjoyed a huge artillery advantage
> 
> unfortunately the loss of the ammo dumps means less artillery and this is why they are struggling
> 
> Russia needs to get those HIMARS out and is using local spies to visually report any HIMARS
> 
> I dont understand why a dozen HIMARS cannot be hunted by counter battery radars


Because they move before an artillery round could reach the area. It only takes a few minuts to fire and leave.


----------



## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Notice the two US launchers would have to be build by Boing. Denmark had some decommisioned batteries in stock. I think they donated one battery with 2 launchers. I find it hard to believe those 2 US launchers have been builld and shipped to Ukraine already .. and 2+2 equals 4. So how did Russia destroy 5 launchers?


They say Ukraine has started receiving Harpoon anti-ship missiles from Denmark.. they did not give numbers.. That is one modern battery..Denmark has many older batteries too..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554546758759419911

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> They say Ukraine has started receiving Harpoon anti-ship missiles from Denmark.. they did not give numbers.. That is one modern battery..Denmark has many older batteries too..


Missiles from various countries. But costal batteries none really had, which is why this russian MOD is lying, since only the Danish donated battery has arrived.
And no, Denmark doesnt have modern coastal batteries. Denmark has two decommisioned batteries. Thats it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554409341884710912


MeFishToo said:


> Missiles from various countries. But costal batteries none really had, which is why this russian MOD is lying, since only the Danish donated battery has arrived.
> And no, Denmark doesnt have modern coastal batteries. Denmark has two decommisioned batteries. Thats it.


https://www.defensenews.com/pentago...from-denmark-amid-russian-black-sea-blockade/


US. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin announced today that the government of *Denmark will transfer an unspecified number of RGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles and shore-based launchers to the Ukrainian military.*

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/harpoon-anti-ship-missiles-headed-to-ukraine-from-denmark


WASHINGTON: The White House today announced another $1 billion in security assistance for Ukraine, including for the first time two Harpoon coastal defense systems that will be mounted on trucks — a capability not currently in US inventory.

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/06...aine-including-truck-mounted-harpoon-systems/

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## NotSure

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554546758759419911


I thought the uber mighty Himars destroyed at least 10^6 Russian ammo depots and 1000 bridges in the last few weeks? Cutting the Russian troops completely from supply?

And at the end of they day it's only a normal, not to say primitive MLRS instead of a wunderwaffle? Wow, what a suprise ...

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> https://www.defensenews.com/pentago...from-denmark-amid-russian-black-sea-blockade/
> 
> 
> US. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin announced today that the government of *Denmark will transfer an unspecified number of RGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles and shore-based launchers to the Ukrainian military.*
> 
> https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/harpoon-anti-ship-missiles-headed-to-ukraine-from-denmark


Listen, no matter how many different links you provide, posting the same story, doesnt change the fact that Denmark doesnt have an active coastal defense system. Denmark decommisioned its Harpoon coastal defence battries about 20 years ago. They still work, probably just have to be dusted off and loaded with some updated Harpoon missiles - an off to Ukraine with a retired officer telling them how to operate them.
But Denmark still didnt provide more than 2 launchers (and could max provide 4). So how did Russia destroy 5 of them?

The coastal defence system had one task of denying russian ships access to two straits. They didnt need more than those two batteries.


----------



## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Listen, no matter how many different links you provide, posting the same story, doesnt change the fact that Denmark doesnt have an active coastal defense system. Denmark decommisioned its Harpoon coastal defence battries about 20 years ago. They still work, probably just have to be dusted off and loaded with some updated Harpoon missiles - an off to Ukraine with a retired officer telling them how to operate them.
> But Denmark still didnt provide more than 2 launchers (and could max provide 4). So how did Russia destroy 5 of them?


Go ask Choigu..


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> Go ask Choigu..


Just letting you know he is a liar.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554587998947315716


----------



## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554587998947315716


I dont think Russian authorities have any idea whats it like telling the truth about anything.

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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Just letting you know he is a liar.


Why would the minister of defense of Russia lie about a battery or two of a system..It must be based on accurate intelligence that no one has but him..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554494138233434114
"Muh HIMARS" didn't save anything here. They're getting destroyed gradually.

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## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> Why would the minister of defense of Russia lie about a battery or two of a system..It must be based on accurate intelligence that no one has but him..



Already been confirmed by the Pentagon there's been no HIMARS losses

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> Why would the minister of defense of Russia lie about a battery or two of a system..It must be based on accurate intelligence that no one has but him..


Maybe to give the impression that Russia is having succes? He is probably not going to mention theyve blown yet another hole in a field somewhere in Ukraine, just like they did yesterday..
Lets remind ourself he is adressing the russian population where questioning this propaganda gets you 15 years in jail. So why wouldnt he lie? He could claim theyd just destroyed the moon, and everyone would be forced to believe it.

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## The SC

F-22Raptor said:


> Already been confirmed by the Pentagon there's been no HIMARS losses


How the Pentagon knows??? HaHa!
This can't be denied or proven by anyone..if they were destroyed ..the Ukrainians aren't going to say it, and Russians themselves can't prove it on the ground ..since the HIMARS are at least 40 kms from the front..But they might have satellite imagery..

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## Ahmadbhutta01

The speed in Russian aggression hints it may have recieved huge weapon delivery may be from Iran such as artillery shell and drones

There's no doubt that Ukraine have lost a few himmars launcher , Russia has satellites , drones and everything they need to take himmars down , himmars are not invincible they just need to be tracked down

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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Maybe to give the impression that Russia is having succes? He is probably not going to mention theyve blown yet another hole in a field somewhere in Ukraine, just like they did yesterday..
> Lets remind ourself he is adressing the russian population where questioning this propaganda gets you 15 years in jail. So why wouldnt he lie? He could claim theyd just destroyed the moon, and everyone would be forced to believe it.


The Russians have killed 1000 Ukrainians and destroyed hundreds of vehicles just today.. and you think they want to brag about a few systems that they say have destroyed..

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## Ahmadbhutta01

The SC said:


> The Russians have killed 1000 Ukrainians and destroyed hundreds of vehicles just today.. and you think they want to brag about a few systems that they say have destroyed..


That's because Russia has resorted to scorched earth policy , flatten the towns and city with artillery and mortars then move into the city



F-22Raptor said:


> Already been confirmed by the Pentagon there's been no HIMARS losses


Why would pentagon admit the loss of himmars , they are getting tens of orders from European countries , they painted it as a game changer weapon fooling the masses

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## The SC

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> That's because Russia has resorted to scorched earth policy , flatten the towns and city with artillery and mortars then move into the city
> 
> 
> Why would pentagon admit the loss of himmars , they are getting tens of orders from European countries , they painted it as a game changer weapon fooling the masses


Read 1000 Ukrainian soldiers.. not in cities..but mostly on flat terrain, tranches, forests..etc...

You're right about that..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554640836738129920


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## Lehrasap

MeFishToo said:


> Because they move before an artillery round could reach the area. It only takes a few minuts to fire and leave.


Are Russian jets not in air all the time? 
What about Russian satellites? They should be able to spot them.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554563493185175553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554563309462069249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554563296501665805

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554560704623136768

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## Hassan Al-Somal

BHAN85 said:


> Ukraine war is no relevant from a world issues point of view. It's just a excuse for West/Russia breakup.
> 
> The important is the economic break up between Russia and the West.
> 
> The important is avoid Russian elite from live/make tourism in West countries and stop sell them Western luxury items.
> 
> That is what hurt to Russia elite, and that will make bring their knees, like it happened in 80s.
> 
> Russian elite dont care about if die one thousand or one million poor Russian soldiers. They care if they can't buy iPhone or Western expensive brands of cars and clothes.



They can buy iPhone or expensive cars and clothes from China, India, Brazil, and in other places. Your claim here makes no sense.

The true aim of Russia is to break the US Dollar fiat currency. By selling oil and gas outside of the US Dollar, with the backing of China - the largest economy in the world, they're at minimum starting the process of loosening the teeth the Western elites built around the rest of the world by financially suffocating anyone they don't like. The Russians and Chinese are onto something here.

Today, the trade between Russia and China or between Russia and India is done through their own currencies and no US Dollar is in the middle. This wasn't the case a few years ago.

It is better not to look at things simplistically.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554420324162506753
> 
> Huge HIMARS strike on railway station




Those don't even look Russian soldiers. They are not wearing body armor. Stop chatting shit. There is no proof to what you claimed. A smoke arise from a scene, and guys, some of them with guns, with no body armor, were getting out of the area. This could be an old footage.

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## BHAN85

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> They can buy iPhone or expensive cars and clothes from China, India, Brazil, and in other places. Your claim here makes no sense.
> 
> The true aim of Russia is to break the US Dollar fiat currency, By selling oil and gas outside of the US Dollar, with the banking of China - the largest economy in the world, they're at minimum starting the process of loosening the teeth the Western elites built around the rest of the world by financially suffocating anyone they don't like. The Russians and Chinese are onto something here.
> 
> Today, the trade between Russia and China or between Russia and India is done their own currencies and no US Dollar is in the middle. This wasn't the case a few tears ago.
> 
> It is better not to look at things simplistically.


Add intermediates is add price to product, by the other side: the most important: they can't live or making tourism so easily as before in th West.

Russian elite wants the luxury products that are manufacture in the west, that's the west power.

It has no sense to be millionaire and only can buy cheap products for poor people.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MeFishToo said:


> Notice the two US launchers would have to be build by Boing. Denmark had some decommisioned batteries in stock. I think they donated one battery with 2 launchers. I find it hard to believe those 2 US launchers have been builld and shipped to Ukraine already .. and 2+2 equals 4. So how did Russia destroy 5 launchers?



Because they were able to bomb them in Odessa and in other places. You're trying to ridicule the claims of the Russian MOD, but their missile attacks on Western arms in Ukraine were precise and devastating as well, Even NPR proved the Russian claims when the Ukrainians refused to confirm what was hit in those facilities hit by Russians.



F-22Raptor said:


> Already been confirmed by the Pentagon there's been no HIMARS losses



Did you expect the Pentagon to agree to Russian claims? If they admit, that means the sales of HIMARS to other countries would be badly affected. So they would deny the Russian claims. However, NPR visiting a facility hit by /Russians and the Urainians refusing to admit what was hit proves the Russian claims.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> sick western mentality , you can come and bomb others home , but god forbade if they fight back at your home.


The World War II in Europe was started by Germany and the Soviet Union.
That You find it sick that countries react to War of Aggression certainly explains your sick (Asian?) mentality supporting Russias War of Agression.



Hack-Hook said:


> no it was European who attacked middle east not Asian . and china and japan minding their own war they didn't export it to Europe , japan even didn't declare war on the countries which were fighting Germany according tho them war in Europe and Africa had nothing to do with them .



Noone claimed that Asians exported a war to Europe. Asians attacked China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, Pacific Islands, Singapore, Malaysia, Burma, India, Australia and the United States.


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## Soldier35

Russian troops destroyed the Buk air defense system of the Ukrainian army.







Due to the large number of PFM-1 Lepestok mines in Ukraine, people began to destroy them with improvised means.

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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554546758759419911


Stupid zionazis really has fu(ked up Ukraine.

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## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> Stupid zionazis really has fu(ked up Ukraine.


That’s kremlin’s propaganda by twisting the words Zelinskki says the Ukraine army still can’t break the numerical advantage of Russia army in terms of artillery and manpower. The key word is not yet.

However that’s going to change with the arrival of artillery from the western countries. Ukraine will get enough skilled manpower. Ukraine army receives training in UK, Germany.

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## ZeGerman

Abid123 said:


> LMAO.. This is some funny shit.
> 
> There are only 2 superpower countries in the world: USA and China
> 
> I know that your country Netherlands is a vassal state of the US but that does not make you a superpower. Only because your master is a superpower does not you are a superpower too. The master will continue to be the master and the slave will remain a slave😉


Oh so now usa is not part west?


----------



## MeFishToo

Lehrasap said:


> Are Russian jets not in air all the time?
> What about Russian satellites? They should be able to spot them.


How many satelite images have the russian MOD posted as evidence during this conflict? I cant remember any. Maybe because Russia only have two optical reconnaissance satelites with a resolution of 0,5 meters per pixel. Russia is practically blind in orbit compared to the ukrainians with the help of USA.

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## James David

Soldier35 said:


> A Russian ATGM crew destroyed a Ukrainian armored personnel carrier. The model of the armored personnel carrier is difficult to determine, but at maximum drag it is very similar to the American M113 armored personnel carrier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ministry of Defense showed an episode of the combat work of Russian special forces in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recently, one of the problems at the front has been a large number of PFM-1 petal mines. The Ukrainian army, retreating, with the help of cluster shells, massively carries out mining with PFM-1 petal mines. The Soviet plastic mine PFM-1 is copied from the American BLUE-43 and weighs only 80 grams. The mine contains about 37 grams of explosive VS-6D in liquid form. Russia abandoned the PFM-1 mines and switched to the PFM-1C version, which self-destructs after 40 hours. Ukraine also abandoned them and began to destroy mines, but the process was apparently too slow since they appeared at the front.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has begun using the new Lastochka-M attack drones in Ukraine. There is no information on the new UAV. It is assumed that the drone "Swallow" is an analogue of the Skylark-1 LE made in Israel. It is only known that the "Swallows" in the course of combat use fragmentation and cumulative ammunition and they were struck by armored vehicles and manpower of the enemy. The drone is launched from a catapult and lands on an airbag. The UAV drops small-caliber ammunition adapted for use from the air. If we assume that this is a modernization of the Israeli Skylark-1 drone, then the characteristics of the Lastochka UAV will be something like this. Take-off weight 7.5 kg, payload 1.2 kg, operating time up to 3 hours, flight distance up to 40 km, application altitude up to 5000 meters. The drone uses 43 mm grenades adapted for air strikes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A short story by a pilot about what kind of missiles the Su-35 aircraft is equipped with for combat missions.


new targets from those Ukrainian Boys.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The World War II in Europe was started by Germany and the Soviet Union.
> That You find it sick that countries react to War of Aggression certainly explains your sick (Asian?) mentality supporting Russias War of Agression.


no i feel sick that they impose their wars on other countries that have nothing to do with it.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Noone claimed that Asians exported a war to Europe. Asians attacked China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, Pacific Islands, Singapore, Malaysia, Burma, India, Australia and the United States.


as far as I'm aware it were Europeans who were invaders of Indochina , those started after Europe meddling there European invaded Asia in operation countenance at least 6month before pearl harbor .
so don't make nonsense about Europe didn't export its war to Asia , let not talk about exporting your war to north Africa





and you guys even *didn't bother to declare war* , another page in your history of entering war without declaring war and now you are complaining why Russia didn't declare war

and 4 month before that england attacked and occupied kingdom of Iraq again *without declaring war* . now go read history and don't talk nonsense about who start war in Asia and Africa

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## James David

F-22Raptor said:


> New weapons package announced


Holy shit Putin must be shittin BRICS errrr bricks by now! hahahahahahaha!!!


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554719025040613376


MeFishToo said:


> How many satelite images have the russian MOD posted as evidence during this conflict? I cant remember any. Maybe because Russia only have two optical reconnaissance satelites with a resolution of 0,5 meters per pixel. Russia is practically blind in orbit compared to the ukrainians with the help of USA



According to a database maintained by the Union of Concerned Scientists, a respected U.S. nongovernmental organization, Russia currently has *around 100* military or dual-purpose satellites in space..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554063841843093505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554697639245086720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554696539494383617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554566591135760385

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554317717066289152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554097762429444097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554057265157750785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554719021135761409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554698855702306818

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## The SC



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## Viet

The US imposes a new round of sanctions against Russia. The list of sanctioned persons includes Putin’s girlfriend Alina Kabajewa.















US-Sanktionen gegen Vertraute von Wladimir Putin


Die USA haben neue Sanktionen gegen russische Personen verhängt, darunter die mutmaßliche Freundin von Präsident Putin. Alina Kabajewas Einreiseerlaubnis wurde ausgesetzt. Auch andere Putin-Vertraute wurden sanktioniert.




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554775390123687937

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## SalarHaqq

NotSure said:


> WHO IS US? You are an iranian immigrant parroting *angloid *propaganda with the aim to divide and conquer, both Russia and Europe. You as a Jubelperser (google, what that is) understands a shit of european Interests and history. Stop teaching people here about it.



User is highly unlikely to be Iranian. _Lehrasap_ is a south Asian / Urdu form of the Iranian name _Lohrasp_. Nobody in Iran would spell it the former way. Doesn't change much to your conclusions, but just saying.

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## Viet

Russians are exposed again as liars.

At the moment Gazprom only delivers 20 percent of gas volume to Germany. Far below the volume stated in the contract.

As reason the Russians say Germany fails deliver the gas compressor.
Then they say the turbine is defective.
Then they say Siemens fails to deliver paper.

Siemens says Gazprom possesses 8 turbines however only installed one turbine.
In short the extra turbine in Germany is not necessary to bring the pipelines to 100 percent capacity.

Russians believe they are the smartest while other people are dumb.









Scholz: Siemens-Turbine ist lieferbar


Außenministerin Baerbock bedankt sich bei einem Besuch in Kanada für die Wartung der Nord-Stream-1-Turbine.




www.sueddeutsche.de









Detailansicht öffnen
Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz und Christian Bruch (links), Vorstandsvorsitzender von Siemens Energy, vor der umstrittenen Turbine.
(Foto: dpa)


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554719025040613376
> 
> 
> According to a database maintained by the Union of Concerned Scientists, a respected U.S. nongovernmental organization, Russia currently has *around 100* military or dual-purpose satellites in space..


Yes and 19 of them serve as remote sensing, optical photography or radio survailiance. Russia has 2 satelites dedicated (and outdated) to optical reconnaissance with a resolution of 0,5 meters per pixel. The rest are useless hunting anything on the ground.

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554775390123687937


Beautifull. Cant wait to see the result on russian side….


----------



## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> Just letting you know he is a liar.


so to you, whose telling the truth then?



Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> There's no doubt that Ukraine have lost a few himmars launcher , Russia has satellites , drones and everything they need to take himmars down , himmars are not invincible they just need to be tracked down


Exactly - if Ukraine still had all the HIMARs it received, then why does US keep sending more? All the equipment that keeps being resent to Ukraine HAVE BEEN DEPLETED! TB2, harpoons, now HIMARS, etc.

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## The SC




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## Ahmadbhutta01

925boy said:


> so to you, whose telling the truth then?
> 
> 
> Exactly - if Ukraine still had all the HIMARs it received, then why does US keep sending more? All the equipment that keeps being resent to Ukraine HAVE BEEN DEPLETED! TB2, harpoons, now HIMARS, etc.


Both Russia and Ukraine have suffered badly interms of manpower and equipments , the only diff is Russia has the stomach (more population) to sustain it for a longer time due to having natural resources like gas and oil that can fund Russian adventure for years unlike Ukraine which is fighting on west given aide and with a smaller population

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> no i feel sick that they impose their wars on other countries that have nothing to do with it.
> 
> as far as I'm aware it were Europeans who were invaders of Indochina , those started after Europe meddling there European invaded Asia in operation countenance at least 6month before pearl harbor .
> so don't make nonsense about Europe didn't export its war to Asia , let not talk about exporting your war to north Africa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you guys even *didn't bother to declare war* , another page in your history of entering war without declaring war and now you are complaining why Russia didn't declare war
> 
> and 4 month before that england attacked and occupied kingdom of Iraq again *without declaring war* . now go read history and don't talk nonsense about who start war in Asia and Africa


As always you cannot counter the argument and put words in my mouth which I never said. Go back and check what I claimed.


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## The SC



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## The SC



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## 925boy

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> That's because Russia has resorted to scorched earth policy , flatten the towns and city with artillery and mortars then move into the city


Well? Russia learned that from US, so i dont see any issue there, unless people wanna be hypocrites and use double standards..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554910466098479105

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554879326168006659

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554860186396987394

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554894415952576512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554891467243618304

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554887615417126914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554843823284658178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554815057296789505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554783134939488256

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554815057296789505

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> so to you, whose telling the truth then?
> 
> 
> Exactly - if Ukraine still had all the HIMARs it received, then why does US keep sending more? All the equipment that keeps being resent to Ukraine HAVE BEEN DEPLETED! TB2, harpoons, now HIMARS, etc.


Why are you asking as if its just a matter of opinion? Im telling you, Ukraine has most probably recieved 2 coastal Harpoon launchers, yet Russia claim they have destroyed 5 Harpoon launchers these last couple of weeks. That is impossible. Russia is clearly lying about those Harpoon launchers, so why believe the rest of the claims about HIMARS and M777?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554930484681080832

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> The Russians have killed 1000 Ukrainians and destroyed hundreds of vehicles just today.. and you think they want to brag about a few systems that they say have destroyed..


You dont even believe this fairytale yourself. 1000 KIA and hundreds destroyed vehicles… Why dont you ask Russia to provide a satelite image of all this destruction? There are two reasons why they dont do it:
1. It didnt happen
2. A satelite image of a body from a russian satelite would be 8 pixels and a vehicle would be 25 pixels
Not very convincing really..



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554930484681080832


Not exactly a HIMARS


----------



## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> You dont even believe this fairytale yourself. 1000 KIA and hundreds destroyed vehicles… Why dont you ask Russia to provide a satelite image of all this destruction? There are two reasons why they dont do it:
> 1. It didnt happen
> 2. A satelite image of a body from a russian satelite would be 8 pixels and a vehicle would be 25 pixels
> Not very convincing really..
> 
> 
> Not exactly a HIMARS
> View attachment 867553


I believe Choigu.. I know he is more honest than most.. I don't believe your lies though!

Check that red circle before answering here..Okay?

And also check those map videos provided to people like you on a daily basis.. with reports from both sides the Ukrainian MoD as well as the Russian one.. And don't be too arrogant.. Although I'm very American in education.. you should never underestimate Russia.. without it WW2 sacrifices.. you'll be speaking German today, along with most Europeans and Americans..

Just swallow the bitter truth.. I'm not here to argue about the obvious..

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> I believe Choigu.. I know he is more honest than most.. I don't believe your lies though!
> 
> Check that red circle before answering here..Okay?


Why dont you admit it wasnt a HIMARS? The tweet clearly said two HIMARS. Now I am asking you to be honest. The vehicle that can be identified on the photo - that is not a HIMARS.. Do you agree??

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## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> I believe Choigu.. I know he is more honest than most.. I don't believe your lies though!
> 
> Check that red circle before answering here..Okay?
> 
> Ans also check those map videos provided to people like you on a daily basis.. with reports from both sides the Ukrainian MoD as well as the Russian one.. And don't be too arrogant.. Although I'm very American in education.. you should never underestimate Russia.. without it WW2 sacrifices.. you'll be speaking German today, along with most Europeans and Americans..
> 
> Just swallow the truth.. I'm not here to argue about the obvious..



No HIMARS have been destroyed and that photo is not HIMARS. It’s a transport truck.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554915661062733824
Another massive HIMARS strike

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554926673803575301

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## aziqbal

F-22Raptor said:


> No HIMARS have been destroyed and that photo is not HIMARS. It’s a transport truck.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554915661062733824
> Another massive HIMARS strike



Wow just Wow 

Seems like Russia just lost weeks of ammo 

they are not enjoying the heavy artillery they previously did and this is why

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> I believe Choigu.. I know he is more honest than most.. I don't believe your lies though!
> 
> Check that red circle before answering here..Okay?
> 
> Ans also check those map videos provided to people like you on a daily basis.. with reports from both sides the Ukrainian MoD as well as the Russian one.. And don't be too arrogant.. Although I'm very American in education.. you should never underestimate Russia.. without it WW2 sacrifices.. you'll be speaking German today, along with most Europeans and Americans..
> 
> Just swallow the bitter truth.. I'm not here to argue about the obvious..


Let me remind you that WW2 happend 80 years ago. I couldnt care less about the russian WW2 narrative. But I know this, Russia bombed and occupied a danish island in the baltic sea and refused to leave until 1947. The local population had nothing positive to tell about the russians. Nothing but drunk rapists and uneducated peasants in a uniform. Must be the same soldiers occupying Ukraine.

Btw, I do speak german and no russian.

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## zectech

So 12 HIMARS are going to hold back the entire Russian army, after Russia uses their air force to hunt and destroy the HIMARS.

Europe needs tens of thousands of tanks, artillery, IFV, more air power, more air defense, more anti-tank, more nukes.

The US solution to each problem: sell more HIMARS. As in sell/send dozens of HIMARS to defend Europe. Nobody sees a problem with this.

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## MeFishToo

zectech said:


> So 12 HIMARS are going to hold back the entire Russian army, after Russia uses their air force to hunt and destroy the HIMARS.
> 
> Europe needs tens of thousands of tanks, artillery, IFV, more air power, more air defense, more anti-tank.
> 
> The US solution to each problem: sell more HIMARS. As in sell/send dozens of HIMARS to defend Europe. Nobody sees a problem with this.


Just beating a strawman, arent you? Why arent we allowed to question those russian claims? They provide no evidence but exaggerated numbers.

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## Han Patriot

zectech said:


> So 12 HIMARS are going to hold back the entire Russian army, after Russia uses their air force to hunt and destroy the HIMARS.
> 
> Europe needs tens of thousands of tanks, artillery, IFV, more air power, more air defense, more anti-tank, more nukes.
> 
> The US solution to each problem: sell more HIMARS. As in sell/send dozens of HIMARS to defend Europe. Nobody sees a problem with this.


This is the level of their delusion. A couple of magic mlrs which both China and Russia produces is going to destroy the invasion force. And they really believes whatever bullshit is fed to them by their 'trustwirthy' media. From Ghost of Kiev to Zelensky the clown.

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## zectech

No I am getting to the point of European governments wasting money of something that can be taken out by one single aircraft.

After you have air supremacy, which Moscow seems to not care about at this moment, you can do this:









Highway of Death - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Which means you need to out swarm the air attack with massive number of viable targets, protected by air defenses. Meaning if you lose 1000 tanks or artillery, you have massive back-up despite SU-25s and other strike and attack from the air. Russia is arguably the largest land army on the globe. 12 HIMARS are not going to hold back a full scale invasion of Europe.

'The EU cannot defend Europe': NATO chief​_"More than 90 percent of the people in the European Union, they live in a NATO country. But only 20 percent of NATO's defence spending comes from NATO EU members," Stoltenberg said._









'The EU cannot defend Europe': NATO chief


NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg warned Thursday that Europe's defence depends on close transatlantic bonds and not on a quest for the continent's strategic autonomy.




news.yahoo.com





Putin laughs every time a European nation buys HIMARS. If the EU cannot defend Europe, then going after buying HIMARS is a waste of money for nations such as the Baltic states. You need asymmetric warfare - thousands of inexpensive towed artillery for the Baltic states, not 12 sitting targets that Iran could hit blindfolded.


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## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> This is the level of their delusion. A couple of magic mlrs which both China and Russia produces is going to destroy the invasion force. And they really believes whatever bullshit is fed to them by their 'trustwirthy' media. From Ghost of Kiev to Zelensky the clown.


Well, atleast we do have something resembling a trustworthy media, unlike the statements from autocracies and unknown tweets you guys cheer.

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## Han Patriot

MeFishToo said:


> Well, atleast we do have something resembling a trustworthy media, unlike the statements from autocracies and unknown tweets you guys cheer.


Having some form of media does not reduce the amount of delusional cheerleaders. You don't need a genius to teach you common sense right. I can stop laughing at some who keep HIMARS that and HIMARS this. When CNN says M777, they go M777 this and that, then now silent. It's like the media can control the minds of these idiots, they just go along and sign the tune of the media. So when Russia is bad, they go Russia Baddddd, without understanding why Russia acted that way. Its crazy that these people sound almost like the commie fanatics of yesteryear. The same with the recent Taiwan crisis, they are just praising Pelosi stoking a war. They don't understand its the US trying to destabilise the world to retain dollar hegemony.

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## MeFishToo

zectech said:


> No I am getting to the point of European governments wasting money of something that can be taken out by one single aircraft.
> 
> After you have air supremacy, which Moscow seems to not care about at this moment, you can do this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Highway of Death - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which means you need to out swarm the air attack with massive number of viable targets, protected by air defenses. Meaning if you lose 1000 tanks or artillery, you have massive back-up despite SU-25s and other strike and attack from the air. Russia is arguably the largest land army on the globe. 12 HIMARS are not going to hold back a full scale invasion of Europe.
> 
> 'The EU cannot defend Europe': NATO chief​_"More than 90 percent of the people in the European Union, they live in a NATO country. But only 20 percent of NATO's defence spending comes from NATO EU members," Stoltenberg said._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'The EU cannot defend Europe': NATO chief
> 
> 
> NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg warned Thursday that Europe's defence depends on close transatlantic bonds and not on a quest for the continent's strategic autonomy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin laughs every time a European nation buys HIMARS. If the EU cannot defend Europe, then going after buying HIMARS is a waste of money for nations such as the Baltic states. You need asymmetric warfare, not 12 sitting targets that Iran could hit blindfolded.


Russias army is designed to fight inside Russia. Its a big pile a junk a few kilometers from the russian railnet. 
IF Russia is all what you believe, they wouldve ended this war a long time ago. Why is it Ukraine is able to stall the russian invasion with trenches and man portable anti armor and manpads? 
And a HIMARS system is exactly not a sitting duck, which is why they are such a succes for the ukrainians.

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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Let me remind you that WW2 happend 80 years ago. I couldnt care less about the russian WW2 narrative. But I know this, Russia bombed and occupied a danish island in the baltic sea and refused to leave until 1947. The local population had nothing positive to tell about the russians. Nothing but drunk rapists and uneducated peasants in a uniform. Must be the same soldiers occupying Ukraine.
> 
> Btw, I do speak german and no russian.


*SS-Freiwilligen- Panzergrenadierdivision ‘Nordland’*
















An image is better that a 1000 words..

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## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> Having some form of media does not reduce the amount of delusional cheerleaders. You don't need a genius to teach you common sense right. I can stop laughing at some who keep HIMARS that and HIMARS this. When CNN says M777, they go M777 this and that, then now silent. It's like the media can control the minds of these idiots, they just go along and sign the tune of the media. So when Russia is bad, they go Russia Baddddd, without understanding why Russia acted that way. Its crazy that these people sound almost like the commie fanatics of yesteryear. The same with the recent Taiwan crisis, they are just praising Pelosi stoking a war. They don't understand its the US trying to destabilise the world to retain dollar hegemony.


I will bet most people here get their information from anything else but regular media. They are days behind the situation in Ukraine.
The weapon systems provided are a gamechanger in their own right. 
NLAWs, Javelin and other anti armor weapons, and manpads, made an impact and forced Russia to change its objectives. Long range artillery evened the odds somehow during the artillery battles that followed, and the HIMARS, M270 and MARS are giving the ukrainians a small edge combined with US intel.
Like it or not, russian forces are facing hard times when in the scope of those long range missiles.


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> *SS-Freiwilligen- Panzergrenadierdivision ‘Nordland’*
> 
> View attachment 867563
> 
> 
> View attachment 867565
> 
> 
> View attachment 867566
> 
> 
> An image is better that a 1000 words..


Atleast get your facts straight. The first volunteers were the Schalburg Corps, primarily former volunteers fighting alongside Finland against USSR.
The Schalborg Corps (Free Corps Denmark) of 6000 went to the eastern front and later the Balkans, Estonia, Latvia and Berlin as a regiment under Nordland.
And exactly what does those pictures of 0,1% of the danish population tell you?

Here they are, marching under police escort in 1942 before leaving for Germany

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554873909601869824

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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> I believe Choigu.. I know he is more honest than most.. I don't believe your lies though!
> 
> Check that red circle before answering here..Okay?
> 
> And also check those map videos provided to people like you on a daily basis.. with reports from both sides the Ukrainian MoD as well as the Russian one.. And don't be too arrogant.. Although I'm very American in education.. you should never underestimate Russia.. without it WW2 sacrifices.. you'll be speaking German today, along with most Europeans and Americans..
> 
> Just swallow the bitter truth.. I'm not here to argue about the obvious..



Many west europeans supported the nazis and even welcomed them when they invaded their own motherland. Nowdays of course everyone pretends their forefathers didnt, but thats just a whitewashing of this grim part of european history.

If it were not for soviets and brits, we would be living in a totally different world today. These two nations did a heroic effort that saved countless other nations and races from being enslaved by the sick nazi racist ideology.

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## MeFishToo

Wergeland said:


> Many west europeans supported the nazis and even welcomed them when they invaded their own motherland. Nowdays of course everyone pretends their forefathers didnt, but thats just a whitewashing of this grim part of european history.
> 
> If it were not for soviets and brits, we would be living in a totally different world today. These two nations did a heroic effort that saved countless other nations and races from being enslaved by the sick nazi racist ideology.


Lets not pretend any nation favoured being “liberated” by the USSR.
And to be fair, you forgot to thank the USA.

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## Wergeland

MeFishToo said:


> Lets not pretend any nation favoured being “liberated” by the USSR.



Northern Norway was liberated by the Russians. We are thankful for that, for the sacrifice of Soviet soldiers who gave their life. For British forces who gave their life.

Russia voluntarily retreated back to own borders after liberating parts of Norway.
More than 80 000 soviet prisoners of war were sent to Norway by the nazis germans who then forced them into horrible labouring. Many thousands died in those labour camps.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554868799907700745


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554920302383169537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554974338973057031

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554794382624268290

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554839819364204545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554932450790461479

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## K_Bin_W

If Russia wins (which of course it will minus western propaganda and BS) its Ukraine that lost.
If Russia loses (yeah I have golden bridge to sell Wana buy) then NATO/US won.

See how easy that was..

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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Lets not pretend any nation favoured being “liberated” by the USSR.
> And to be fair, you forgot to thank the USA.


Europe did you dumb-***..

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> No HIMARS have been destroyed and that photo is not HIMARS. It’s a transport truck.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554915661062733824
> Another massive HIMARS strike


Now thats how blowing up an ammo depot looks like with a lot of secondary explosions.


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## Viet

zectech said:


> No I am getting to the point of European governments wasting money of something that can be taken out by one single aircraft.
> 
> After you have air supremacy, which Moscow seems to not care about at this moment, you can do this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Highway of Death - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which means you need to out swarm the air attack with massive number of viable targets, protected by air defenses. Meaning if you lose 1000 tanks or artillery, you have massive back-up despite SU-25s and other strike and attack from the air. Russia is arguably the largest land army on the globe. 12 HIMARS are not going to hold back a full scale invasion of Europe.
> 
> 'The EU cannot defend Europe': NATO chief​_"More than 90 percent of the people in the European Union, they live in a NATO country. But only 20 percent of NATO's defence spending comes from NATO EU members," Stoltenberg said._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'The EU cannot defend Europe': NATO chief
> 
> 
> NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg warned Thursday that Europe's defence depends on close transatlantic bonds and not on a quest for the continent's strategic autonomy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin laughs every time a European nation buys HIMARS. If the EU cannot defend Europe, then going after buying HIMARS is a waste of money for nations such as the Baltic states. You need asymmetric warfare - thousands of inexpensive towed artillery for the Baltic states, not 12 sitting targets that Iran could hit blindfolded.


War is about economy. Russia is a poor country that can never win a war against Europe. You need lots money for tanks, jets, artillery, drones and everything. The reason why some western military generals say they can’t defend Europe have much to do with demilitarization of Europe after the Cold War. For instance Germany had 5,000 tanks, now 250 tanks something. Germany had 1,000 jets, now just few squadrons.

Now thing has changed with Putin himself exposed as hooligan, Europe is awakened. Europe is rearm.

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## RescueRanger

It would seem the Russians have advanced onto Pisky and captured the airfield and water treatment plant too:





Source: https://liveuamap.com/

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Viet said:


> War is about economy. Russia is a poor country that can never win a war against Europe. You need lots money for tanks, jets, artillery, drones and everything. The reason why some western military generals say they can’t defend Europe have much to do with demilitarization of Europe after the Cold War. For instance Germany had 5,000 tanks, now 250 tanks something. Germany had 1,000 jets, now just few squadrons.
> 
> Now thing has changed with Putin himself exposed as hooligan, Europe is awakened. Europe is rearm.


Russia is the richest country interms of natural resources that are most demanded in the world , Russia earned 120bn$ from selling oil and gas in 4 months due to rise in oil price , only western economy suffered from sanctions , the euro is going down along with European coming and above all 


Winter is coming ........

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> This is the level of their delusion. A couple of magic mlrs which both China and Russia produces is going to destroy the invasion force. And they really believes whatever bullshit is fed to them by their 'trustwirthy' media. From Ghost of Kiev to Zelensky the clown.


Those few HIMARS seen more combat than the entire PLA. So speaking of bullshid, maybe you should look at your own government.

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## oberschlesier

The EU gas storage for Winter is now above 70% and growing with north stream at 20%:



Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI

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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Those few HIMARS seen more combat than the entire PLA. So speaking of bullshid, maybe you should look at your own government.


Yah HIMARS is gonna save Ukraine. Geesshh what have they been feeding you lil cheer babies. You think weapons accumulate experience huh... Lol

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> Well? Russia learned that from US, so i dont see any issue there, unless people wanna be hypocrites and use double standards..


A hypocrite would believe Russia is behaving the same way the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan 🙄The US didn’t use scorched earth tactics, far from it.

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## Broccoli

How Russians treat their injured veterans. 
https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1554824362699542531


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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> No HIMARS have been destroyed and that photo is not HIMARS. It’s a transport truck.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554915661062733824
> Another massive HIMARS strike





Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554910466098479105



This is the longest explosion i have heard.

More than 15 minute of non ending explosions in an admonition dump , from few weeks ago :






~

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## RoadAmerica

zectech said:


> No I am getting to the point of European governments wasting money of something that can be taken out by one single aircraft.
> 
> After you have air supremacy, which Moscow seems to not care about at this moment, you can do this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Highway of Death - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which means you need to out swarm the air attack with massive number of viable targets, protected by air defenses. Meaning if you lose 1000 tanks or artillery, you have massive back-up despite SU-25s and other strike and attack from the air. Russia is arguably the largest land army on the globe. 12 HIMARS are not going to hold back a full scale invasion of Europe.
> 
> 'The EU cannot defend Europe': NATO chief​_"More than 90 percent of the people in the European Union, they live in a NATO country. But only 20 percent of NATO's defence spending comes from NATO EU members," Stoltenberg said._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'The EU cannot defend Europe': NATO chief
> 
> 
> NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg warned Thursday that Europe's defence depends on close transatlantic bonds and not on a quest for the continent's strategic autonomy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin laughs every time a European nation buys HIMARS. If the EU cannot defend Europe, then going after buying HIMARS is a waste of money for nations such as the Baltic states. You need asymmetric warfare - thousands of inexpensive towed artillery for the Baltic states, not 12 sitting targets that Iran could hit blindfolded.


Lol, they don’t care about air superiority?
They simply can’t achieve air superiority, therefore they’ll continue to suffer. Wake me up when they do 🥱



Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Russia is the richest country interms of natural resources that are most demanded in the world , Russia earned 120bn$ from selling oil and gas in 4 months due to rise in oil price , only western economy suffered from sanctions , the euro is going down along with European coming and above all
> 
> 
> Winter is coming ........


There’s a huge difference between having natural resources and being able to extract them for sale. We’ve seen how good Russia is with oil production, which is they aren’t good at all without western tech. Need I remind you bp has exited

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## zectech

Han Patriot said:


> This is the level of their delusion. A couple of magic mlrs which both China and Russia produces is going to destroy the invasion force. And they really believes whatever bullshit is fed to them by their 'trustwirthy' media. From Ghost of Kiev to Zelensky the clown.



China needs to get rid of the thousands of tanks, artillery, and other combat vehicles in the PLA. China needs to get rid of their small arms and air defenses. China needs to get rid of their new aircraft carrier - similar to the size of Fords flat top, get rid of 055s, 054s, 052s, and the rest of their navy. Get rid of their air force. And instead get 4 or 12 HIMARS. Those 12 HIMARS are going to stop a US invasion of China. HIMARS are like ninjas, invisible (protected by EW or ADS or something - if HIMARS are protected so easily with EW or something, why not extend this to other targets ??? - why not sell that tech to the EU to defeat Russia). The USA could never find those 12 Chinese HIMARS, And with their range would keep the USA at bay. This is the insanity that is being sold to the EU.

The NATO chief said the EU with the present armed forces cannot hold Russia back. So instead of the EU getting a military 3 or 4 times that of China as they should, EU is expected to buy those "invisible, undetectable, stealth" HIMARS that Russia is finding "impossible" to find and attack with air or missile assault.

When Russia invades the EU and EU is ready with their dozens of HIMARS. "Why is Russia so easily destroying these easy targets of HIMARS, EU is finished"

What Europe needs is overwhelming firepower, greater than Russia. And swarms of targets, that won't be destroyed by a single sortie. So European MIC needs to make at cost towed howitzers to begin with. 50-100K made in the next 5 years. Have Germany have 40K. Have Italy have 30K, have Poland have 10K. Have other countries in the EU buy 1K or 5K. And make other weapons down the list in mass. 10s of thousands of tanks, 100s of thousand of anti-armour missiles. 2 to 4 times the number of aircraft that Russia has. etc

When Russia invades Europe. EU generals are asked what does the EU have to stop Russia. EU generals reply: "We have dozens of HIMARS". Moments later after Russia takes them out, these same EU generals say, "We had dozens of HIMARS".

You don't want to give Russia and thus Putin's backers, the option of destroying the EU. Relying on HIMARS is giving Putin that option.

_“We are (for the) first time in the history in a situation where the President of the United States (Trump) and (the) President of Russia seem to share the same view on Europe: the weaker, the better, because they think that it’s better for their own country, which is obviously not right,” Katainen, who is also the former prime minister of Finland said._









'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says


There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.




www.cnbc.com





I find it fantastic that the HIMARS are destroying Russian targets in Ukraine. I find it funny that Putin refuses to take out HIMARS, when Russia has the capabilities. I find it deadly to the EU to over-rely on buying HIMARS to defend Europe.

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## Han Patriot

zectech said:


> China needs to get rid of the thousands of tanks, artillery, and other combat vehicles in the PLA. China needs to get rid of their small arms and air defenses. China needs to get rid of their new aircraft carrier - similar to the size of Fords flat top, get rid of 055s, 054s, 052s, and the rest of their navy. Get rid of their air force. And instead get 4 or 12 HIMARS. Those 12 HIMARS are going to stop a US invasion of China. HIMARS are like ninjas, invisible. The USA could never find those 12 HIMARS, And with their range would keep the USA at bay. This is the insanity that is being sold to the EU.
> 
> The NATO chief said the EU with the present armed forces cannot hold Russia back. So instead of the EU getting a military 3 or 4 times that of China as they should, EU is expected to buy those "invisible, undetectable, stealth" HIMARS that Russia is finding "impossible" to find and attack with air or missile assault.
> 
> When Russia invades the EU and EU is ready with their dozens of HIMARS. "Why is Russia so easily destroying these easy targets of HIMARS, EU is finished"


Exactly, what's the point of investing in J35s J20s HQ16 missiles and cruise missiles. 12 HIMARS (how many destroyed?) can defeat a superpower already. And don't forget the dozen or so M777, Hahahahah. Gosh we make AH4s like pancakes, I am pretty sure our guided munitions don't cost 100k a pop. Ukrainians were complaining about the frequent breakdowns and also the lack do the latest firing computers, the Yanks were afraid the Ruskies might capture the latest ones. Lolololol old. 


And that bayrakthar using Canadian engines, gosh the best drones I dare say come from China. The same technology use for civilian drones are used in military drones.

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## Viet

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Russia is the richest country interms of natural resources that are most demanded in the world , Russia earned 120bn$ from selling oil and gas in 4 months due to rise in oil price , only western economy suffered from sanctions , the euro is going down along with European coming and above all
> 
> 
> Winter is coming ........


How is high fuels prices help Russia automobile industry, aircraft and other manufacturing, retail, and other industries? Zero. Russia can’t export Russia can’t import. 1,000 foreign companies leaving. The economy imploding.

Those $120 billion won’t help the poor, middle class either. There is no money for them. the Ukraine war costs Russia $1 billion per day. And the war as you know it lasts more than 120 days yet with no end insight.


----------



## zectech

Han Patriot said:


> Exactly, what's the point of investing in J35s J20s HQ16 missiles and cruise missiles. 12 HIMARS (how many destroyed?) can defeat a superpower already. And don't forget the dozen or so M777, Hahahahah. Gosh we make AH4s like pancakes, I am pretty sure our guided munitions don't cost 100k a pop. Ukrainians were complaining about the frequent breakdowns and also the lack do the latest firing computers, the Yanks were afraid the Ruskies might capture the latest ones. Lolololol old.
> 
> 
> And that bayrakthar using Canadian engines, gosh the best drones I dare say come from China. The same technology use for civilian drones are used in military drones.



China does face the same problem the EU faces, if in a war with Russia, and the EU have overwhelming firepower to take Moscow in weeks. Russia would simply nuke Germany and Italy and other smaller nations. And the Trump/Pompeo cia would sit in chairs laughing at Europe. The cia hated Adenauer and see the EU as competitor.









'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says


There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.




www.cnbc.com





The US would never again be risked in a nuclear war to protect Europe from being nuked. Meaning the nukes of the US are there to protect the US and maybe Israel and UK, not Germany and Italy.

The same trouble that the EU faces in being nuked from potentially being too strong conventionally is what China faces too. Trump wants to nuke China. Trump would not care if buddy Putin nukes the EU. The EU needs weapon systems better than S-500s, and nuclear arsenal greater than Russia and a delivery system better than the US. For this reason, the EU has to be dove-ish, instead of hawkish on war.


----------



## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Yah HIMARS is gonna save Ukraine. Geesshh what have they been feeding you lil cheer babies. *You think weapons accumulate experience huh*... Lol


Actually, they do. But of course, as a sofa soldier, you would not understand what I mean.

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## Viet

zectech said:


> China does face the same problem the EU faces, if in a war with Russia, and the EU have overwhelming firepower to take Moscow in weeks. Russia would simply nuke Germany and Italy and other smaller nations. And the Trump/Pompeo cia would sit in chairs laughing at Europe. The cia hated Adenauer and see the EU as competitor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says
> 
> 
> There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US would never again be risked in a nuclear war to protect Europe from being nuked. Meaning the nukes of the US are there to protect the US and maybe Israel and UK, not Germany and Italy.
> 
> The same trouble that the EU faces in being nuked from potentially being too strong conventionally is what China faces too. Trump wants to nuke China. Trump would not care if buddy Putin nukes the EU. The EU needs weapon systems better than S-500s, and nuclear arsenal greater than Russia and a delivery system better than the US. For this reason, the EU has to be dove-ish, instead of hawkish on war.


Your logics makes no sense. If the US won’t come with nuclear umbilical what NATO at all is used for? For fun or what? Why Sweden, Finland seek to join the NATO? Why Ukraine, Georgia, Moldavia? You forgot nuclear arsenals from UK, France. You forgot German, Italia and other countries carrying US nuclear bombs.

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## Soldier35

There was evidence of the use of weapons against drones by soldiers of the Ukrainian army. In the video, you can see the use of the gun against drones ANTIDRON KVSG-6, manufactured by the Ukrainian company Kvertus Technology. The gun suppresses the control and navigation channels of the drone at a distance of up to 3000 meters, which leads to landing or loss of communication with the drone. Battery life of the device: 25-30 minutes. Weight with batteries - 6 kg. The price at the current hryvnia exchange rate is about 11,500 dollars.






The British Brimstone I rocket fell into the hands of the Russian army in the Zaporozhye direction of Ukraine. An unexploded rocket was found near the positions of Russian troops. The Brimstone missile is 3 times more effective than the American AGM-65G Maverick missile against modern tanks and is a valuable model for research by the Russian army. The rocket was made in September 2001, and the forward compartment of the rocket was made in 2004. These missiles began to enter service with the UK in 2005, this is a fire-and-forget missile. The homing air-to-ground missile is equipped with an active radar homing head. The rocket discovered in Ukraine belongs to the first modification of the Brimstone 1 in its early version.






Eyewitnesses from Russia noticed a train with military equipment of the Chinese army on the stage near the village of Alekseevo-Lozovskoye, Rostov Region. This region borders on Donbass. Perhaps military equipment is intended for competitions between the military from different countries, which will be held at the end of August.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555162922032287746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555200578015338496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555211362024001537

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## 925boy

RoadAmerica said:


> The US didn’t use scorched earth tactics, far from it.


How would you know? Did you ever live in Laos or Mosul or Afghanistan? no you didnt, so just shut it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555102965337567232

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## The SC




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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555146380640980992
The separatist republic of Donetsk declared its control over the entire town of Biske, bordering the region..
https://twitter.com/AlHadath?ref_sr...^1555262248691662849|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=
@AlHadath


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555137479053037568
Russian forces entered Solidar
Sources reported that clashes with English-speaking mercenaries started in the Knauf factory located inside the city.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554807982956888066

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## aziqbal

Seversk, Bakhmut and Solidar defence line will be taken in next few weeks 

these areas were fortified for 8 years from 2014 onwards and Russia has broken through 

however the defence line at Karmatorsk and Sloviansk is even tougher and I think it will takes month to take those cities 

they have deep underground tunnels and I am not sure how Russia will take that area because pounding with artillery has its limits

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555277809928605699

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## aziqbal

Look at the Ukrainian fortifications, concrete bunkers, tunnels and trenches

Inter locking fire, HIMARS did not slow the advance rather the area has been fortified since 2014


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550382319068139521

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## Hack-Hook

aziqbal said:


> Seversk, Bakhmut and Solidar defence line will be taken in next few weeks
> 
> these areas were fortified for 8 years from 2014 onwards and Russia has broken through
> 
> however the defence line at Karmatorsk and Sloviansk is even tougher and I think it will takes month to take those cities
> 
> they have deep underground tunnels and I am not sure how Russia will take that area because pounding with artillery has its limits


good old NATO and Israeli tactic of filling the tunnels with poisonous gases

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## aziqbal

Russians have found a weak point on the entry to Bakhmut 

They have entered the city

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## The SC



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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Actually, they do. But of course, as a sofa soldier, you would not understand what I mean.


Okay. So your WW2 howitzers must really be something huh. It had been accumulating experience since 1945.l9p



aziqbal said:


> Look at the Ukrainian fortifications, concrete bunkers, tunnels and trenches
> 
> Inter locking fire, HIMARS did not slow the advance rather the area has been fortified since 2014
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550382319068139521


Gosh another HIMARS freak. What happened to M777? It's like you guys get programmed by the media into a drone like those commie bots of yesteryear. I see the same delusion in the cheer babies here.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

The Russians have sped up their offensive , it looks like the want the war to be over before winter .



Han Patriot said:


> Okay. So your WW2 howitzers must really be something huh. It had been accumulating experience since 1945.l9p
> 
> 
> Gosh another HIMARS freak. What happened to M777? It's like you guys get programmed by the media into a drone like those commie bots of yesteryear. I see the same delusion in the cheer babies here.


Himmars propaganda helped usa struck dozens of sale contract . American backed media is good at it

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> How would you know? Did you ever live in Laos or Mosul or Afghanistan? no you didnt, so just shut it.


Lol, I can’t debate you so shut it. Get real
Plenty of friends have been there, thanks

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## aviator_fan

gambit said:


> You do not need to convince anyone here. You need to convince the military. Tell them that the US military have *NEVER* won a war. Then see how hard they laugh at you.


Desert Storm was won militarily.

They pretty much wiped off Iraq's strength and ruling apparatus in the 2003 invasion. While the Neo-cons had idiotic visions of redrawing the map around the world, the reality is that the only threat to Israel from any Arab nation got neutralized by permanently making Iraq unstable and weak. So won militarily and strategically. Syria was militarily incompetent against Israel and excelled only in killing its own population and so Iraq was who needed to be removed out of the equation.

That then brings to Afghanistan. I am not a fan of them having done what they did in Afghanistan. But to have 5K soldiers in one airbase and power project around the country is not a joke. And then the US realized that Afghanistan was not worth keeping even 5k soldiers for and its aid to Afghan military was second only to Israel.

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## PakAlp

04/08/2022 war map.







The progress is at snail pace. Ukrainian are defending well. Surprising that Russia still hasn't got air superiority over Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555260284717174785

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## The SC

aviator_fan said:


> Desert Storm was won militarily.
> 
> They pretty much wiped off Iraq's strength and ruling apparatus in the 2003 invasion. While the Neo-cons had idiotic visions of redrawing the map around the world, the reality is that the only threat to Israel from any Arab nation got neutralized by permanently making Iraq unstable and weak. So won militarily and strategically. Syria was militarily incompetent against Israel and excelled only in killing its own population and so Iraq was who needed to be removed out of the equation.
> 
> That then brings to Afghanistan. I am not a fan of them having done what they did in Afghanistan. But to have 5K soldiers in one airbase and power project around the country is not a joke. And then the US realized that Afghanistan was not worth keeping even 5k soldiers for and its aid to Afghan military was second only to Israel.


Totaly wrong my friend..when Iraqis decided to resist, thousands of US elite troops *(sadly) were eliminated by snipers and IED's everywhere in Irak.. that is the truth that has pushed the US to evacuate and leave only the new huge Embassy as a strong hold in Iraq.. Thus.. logically the US didn't really win the most Iraqi's hearts up till today..

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## gambit

aviator_fan said:


> Desert Storm was won militarily.
> 
> They pretty much wiped off Iraq's strength and ruling apparatus in the 2003 invasion. While the Neo-cons had idiotic visions of redrawing the map around the world, the reality is that the only threat to Israel from any Arab nation got neutralized by permanently making Iraq unstable and weak. So won militarily and strategically. Syria was militarily incompetent against Israel and excelled only in killing its own population and so Iraq was who needed to be removed out of the equation.
> 
> That then brings to Afghanistan. I am not a fan of them having done what they did in Afghanistan. But to have 5K soldiers in one airbase and power project around the country is not a joke. And then the US realized that Afghanistan was not worth keeping even 5k soldiers for and its aid to Afghan military was second only to Israel.


If you read post 1786, that is the tone about the US in PDF. The US was 'defeated' in Iraq, and everywhere else. Just go along with it.

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## Lehrasap

The SC said:


> Totaly wrong my friend..when Iraqis decided to resist, thousands of US elite troops *(sadly) were eliminated by snipers and IED's everywhere in Irak.. that is the truth that has pushed the US to evacuate and leave only the new huge Embassy as a strong hold in Iraq.. Thus.. logically the US didn't really win the most Iraqi's hearts up till today..



US can do whatever good it can, but US can never win the hearts of any Muslim nation, as religion will always be a driving force in Islamic countries, through which Mullahs will always succeed in sowing hatred against the Kafir US.

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## zartosht

Wergeland said:


> Northern Norway was liberated by the Russians. We are thankful for that, for the sacrifice of Soviet soldiers who gave their life. For British forces who gave their life.
> 
> Russia voluntarily retreated back to own borders after liberating parts of Norway.
> More than 80 000 soviet prisoners of war were sent to Norway by the nazis germans who then forced them into horrible labouring. Many thousands died in those labour camps.









Thats the Norwegian consul (a professional diplomat) going full karen (_Káren?) _on some hotel receptionist

Her racist tirade included "I hate russians" and "Im scandanavian, im used to clean rooms!"

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## jamahir

Lehrasap said:


> US can do whatever good it can, but US can never win the hearts of any Muslim nation, as religion will always be a driving force in Islamic countries, through which Mullahs will always succeed in sowing hatred against the Kafir US.



But the Kafir US government is really the master of the mullahs, whether Al Qaeda or Taliban or "Muslim" Brotherhood or others.

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## jamahir

aviator_fan said:


> So won militarily and strategically. Syria was militarily incompetent against Israel and excelled only in killing its own population



Sure, tens of thousands of "Syrian" "moderate" "rebels" from India to Indonesia to Belgium to Bangladesh to Canada to Chechnya are very much Syria's "own population". And the Syrian armed forces are totally incompetent in trying to fight these tens of thousands of "rebels" many of whom get inserted into Syria from Turkey everyday and get treated for injuries inside Israel border everyday.

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## Lehrasap

jamahir said:


> But the Kafir US government is really the master of the mullahs, whether Al Qaeda or Taliban or "Muslim" Brotherhood or others.


ٰI don't know about al-Qaeda and Muslim brotherhood, but I know that US supported Saudi Government and Afghan Mujahideen against Communist Soviet Union.

As far as Taliban are concerned, then on US official told that initially US thought that Taliban will be like Saudis too, and thus no problem if they support Taliban against Iran. Nevertheless, when it became apparent that Taliban were way extreme than Saudi government, then US stopped any co-operation with Taliban. 
I don't know much about al-Qaeda and Muslim brotherhood, but for sure if they crossed a certain level of radicalization, then surely US didn't support them anymore. 
US didn't need to invest 1 trillion USD in Afghanistan, but simply bombing and leaving it as it was enough for them. But US indeed invested money, but still it was unable to win the hearts and it was mainly due to the religious hatred.


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## Viet

aziqbal said:


> Look at the Ukrainian fortifications, concrete bunkers, tunnels and trenches
> 
> Inter locking fire, HIMARS did not slow the advance rather the area has been fortified since 2014
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550382319068139521


That’s WW1 redux. Those Ukraine fortifications will slow Russia advance and cost Putin soldiers deadly. The Ukraines have prepared for the fight.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555282787078488064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555282792757567494

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## jamahir

Lehrasap said:


> I don't know about al-Qaeda and Muslim brotherhood, but I know that US supported Saudi Government and Afghan Mujahideen against Communist Soviet Union.



An Egyptian article from 2018 about Nasser talking about the "M"B in 1958 :


> CAIRO – 23 July 2018: Jinx! Gamal Abdel Nasser is not here today to say this term to President Sisi in order to prevent bad luck. It is easy for someone who is used to listening to the current leadership’s statements and Abdel Nasser’s statements as well to know that they sound exactly the same.
> 
> 13 years after the success of July 23 revolution, which abolished the monarchy, late President Nasser, one of the revolution’s top leaders, described Muslim Brotherhood in one of his speech as people who exploit religion to obtain people’s support and seize power.
> 
> “The parties were dissolved, and we clashed with the Muslim Brotherhood party, during the four years, in 1953 and in 1954 … We were embroiled in dispute, they declared war against us, and they shot at me on October, 26, 1954 in Alexandria … Terrorist members in the Muslim Brotherhood party were arrested, and they were judged,” Nasser said during the statement.
> 
> “In 1954, we were negotiating with the British [forces occupying Egypt at the time] for the evacuation [deal]. At the same time, the Muslim Brotherhood members were holding secret meetings with the members of the British Embassy. They were telling them: we will be able to seize power,” Nasser said.
> 
> The late President said that the Muslim Brotherhood party has never held the patriotic feelings which Egyptians have held, adding: “The Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood at the time when we were fighting in the Canal was asked: what is your stance on the war in the canal. He said: We are a wide (international) call. Perhaps the war in the canal comes for your benefit here in Egypt, while we think it is beneficial to fight in another country.”
> 
> “This is the call of the Muslim Brotherhood. All of [their] speech is full of deception and [exploitation of] religion,” Nasser stated.
> 
> Similar to what happened following 2011 revolution when people decided to reconcile with the Muslim Brotherhood, perhaps because the youth who led the January revolution were not familiar with the MB policies, Abdel Nasser said he reconciled with the MB members, explaining that the reconciliation however, failed to turn them into good citizens.
> 
> “In 1953, we actually and honestly wanted to cooperate with the Muslim Brotherhood supposing that [this will make its members] take the right path. I met with the General guide of the Muslim Brotherhood. He issued [some] demands,” Nasser said.
> 
> The late President said that the MB guide asked him to force Egyptian women to wear Islamic veil and to shut cinemas and theaters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nasser said: “He told me that you as a ruler is responsible [for veiling women]. I told him, you have a daughter in the Faculty of Medicine who is unveiled. Why didn’t you force her to wear a veil? If you are not able to make your daughter wear a veil, [how] would you want me to [force] 10 million women to wear veils in the country?”
> 
> “Then, [he told me] that women must not [go to] work. I think that when a woman works, we are protecting her [this way]. Why do [some women] go astray? They do so because of the need and poverty. We all know such stories of women whose sons or mothers are sick and they did not find money, so they were forced to sell their bodies. Therefore, work is a protection for women, while preventing women from work [works] against her. We actually liberate women by [allowing] them to work and cooperate with the man,” Nasser added.
> 
> “Last year, in 1964, before the constitution, I released them all from the prison, and we issued a law to return every one of them to his work with the same salary and promotion prospects. In 1965, we seized the new conspiracy of the Muslim Brotherhood; secret system, and assassination and destruction plans,” the late President said.
> 
> Nasser said that Muslim Brotherhood group says that all the [Egyptian] people are disbelievers, and that the MB members are the only Muslims. According to Nasser, The MB members say they refuse people representation, and the Parliament. He added that the MB group considers the kings and presidents of the Arab and other countries as disbelievers, and that the MB members are the only Muslim people.
> 
> “They were arrested, and we also arrested all old MB organizations … It is not about the assassination of Gamal Abdel Nasser. If Abdel Nasser was assassinated, a thousand people similar to Gamal Abdel Nasser would emerge, but we can never accept that [our] people be assassinated,” Nasser stated.
> 
> “We started to view [their cases]; all people who participated in these secret organizations will be referred to judgment. All dangerous people who we released in 1964 and had basically represented heads or dangerous members in the secret organizations will be [imprisoned]. After that, the rest of [the MB group members] will be released. We will give them another chance. If somebody of them [commits similar illegal actions] we will arrest him and we will never get him out of prison.”
> 
> “It is enough. We cannot take a gamble on the rewards we achieved during the 13 past years,” Nasser stated, adding that the MB group uses Islam to deceive people and grab them to join the party.
> 
> Concerning the MB, “they are neither Muslims, nor brothers. They are malevolent … Their leaders outside [the country] cooperated with Baghdad Pact, colonial countries, all our enemies, and Arab reactionary, and proved with clear evidence that the MB party or movement is only a movement that works for the benefit of colonialism and reactionary, by which it is funded.





> Before Nasser came into power in 1956, Mahmoud Abdel-Latif, an MB member tried to assassinate him two years earlier, while he was delivering a speech in Alexandria, to celebrate the British military withdrawal, according to media reports.
> 
> Following his return to Cairo, Nasser ordered the arrest of thousands of people mostly of the Muslim Brotherhood members, and dismissed dozens of officers loyal to Naguib.
> 
> MB author and thinker Sayed Kotb was executed in 1966 after being convicted of planning to assassinate Nasser who ruled Egypt for about 14 years until his death in 1970.





Lehrasap said:


> As far as Taliban are concerned, then on US official told that initially US thought that Taliban will be like Saudis too, and thus no problem if they support Taliban against Iran. Nevertheless, when it became apparent that Taliban were way extreme than Saudi government, then US stopped any co-operation with Taliban.



1. Right after the Taliban took power last year, Sami Sadat, the main leader of the former Afghan National Army said that the American military ( NATO in general ) betrayed ANA and enabled the Taliban to take over. And NATO wouldn't have ever gone from Afghanistan if a left-wing group like the Solidarity Party of Afghanistan had a minute chance to take over governance.

2. For years before the Taliban took power they had an embassy in Qatar where also the American military has a big base. If NATO wanted it could have simply assassinated the Taliban representatives in Qatar because NATO was claiming to kill the Taliban in Afghanistan. So why were the Qatar-based Taliban not assassinated ?

3. In all the NATO / Taliban "fighting" years since 2011 the American air force planes were transporting Talibs to the battlefields of Syria where NATO and its mullah allies were fighting against the Socialist, progressive system headed by Bashar al Assad.

4. CIA was involved in getting Taliban to force Afghan farmers to grow opium which would be bought by CIA.

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## Corax

aviator_fan said:


> Desert Storm was won militarily.
> 
> They pretty much wiped off Iraq's strength and ruling apparatus in the 2003 invasion. While the Neo-cons had idiotic visions of redrawing the map around the world, the reality is that the only threat to Israel from any Arab nation got neutralized by permanently making Iraq unstable and weak. So won militarily and strategically. Syria was militarily incompetent against Israel and excelled only in killing its own population and so Iraq was who needed to be removed out of the equation.
> 
> That then brings to Afghanistan. I am not a fan of them having done what they did in Afghanistan. But to have 5K soldiers in one airbase and power project around the country is not a joke. And then the US realized that Afghanistan was not worth keeping even 5k soldiers for and its aid to Afghan military was second only to Israel.



This is what you simple minded Mericuns can't seem to grasp.

Military force is an extension of political policy. Sure, the Mericun military is outstanding at "defeating" peasants, goat herders, and a country like Iraq that was brought to its knees through crippling sanctions for over 10 years that left over 500,000 children dead, which was endorsed by your politicians, not to mention the 100,000s civilians killed directly by the "mighty" Mericun military.

But Iraq has been effectively handed over to full control of Iran, which can now pose a direct threat to Israel, with way more capability that Iraq could ever dream about. And Afghanistan is back in full control of the Taliban again, and seems to be harbouring and supporting terrorist groups again...it's like the past 20 years never happened and Afghanistan is back to how it was in 2001. If you want to call that a "strategic" victory, go right ahead

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## Lehrasap

jamahir said:


> 1. Right after the Taliban took power last year, Sami Sadat, the main leader of the former Afghan National Army said that the American military ( NATO in general ) betrayed ANA and enabled the Taliban to take over. And NATO wouldn't have ever gone from Afghanistan if a left-wing group like the Solidarity Party of Afghanistan had a minute chance to take over governance.
> 
> 2. For years before the Taliban took power they had an embassy in Qatar where also the American military has a big base. If NATO wanted it could have simply assassinated the Taliban representatives in Qatar because NATO was claiming to kill the Taliban in Afghanistan. So why were the Qatar-based Taliban not assassinated ?
> 
> 3. In all the NATO / Taliban "fighting" years since 2011 the American air force planes were transporting Talibs to the battlefields of Syria where NATO and its mullah allies were fighting against the Socialist, progressive system headed by Bashar al Assad.
> 
> 4. CIA was involved in getting Taliban to force Afghan farmers to grow opium which would be bought by CIA.



I don't agree with all of this. 

It was only the very initial period of Taliban in 1996 when US tried to make a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan (by passing Iran). But when Taliban showed very radical behavior against women and others, then those talks with Taliban leaders stopped.


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## Wergeland

zartosht said:


> Thats the Norwegian consul (a professional diplomat) going full karen (_Káren?) _on some hotel receptionist
> 
> Her racist tirade included "I hate russians" and "Im scandanavian, im used to clean rooms!"



Stupid racist people exists in all walks of life. Sadly.

Norwegians arent especially anti-Russian nor are they pro-Russian. Most Norwegians have a balanced view in my personal experience.


----------



## jamahir

Lehrasap said:


> I don't agree with all of this.
> 
> It was only the very initial period of Taliban in 1996 when US tried to make a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan (by passing Iran). But when Taliban showed very radical behavior against women and others, then those talks with Taliban leaders stopped.



So you think the "Libyan" "rebels" and "Syrian" "rebels" whom the USA government and others of NATO cultivated, armed and support in every way are emancipators of the female gender ?

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## aziqbal

The fighting has reached the streets of Bakhmut 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555483845830381569

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## jamahir

aziqbal said:


> The fighting has reached the streets of Bakhmut
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555483845830381569



Patrice Lumumba Street ? Surprising to read that African leader's name still maintained despite Ukraine being effectively governed by Nazis.

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## Lehrasap

jamahir said:


> So you think the "Libyan" "rebels" and "Syrian" "rebels" whom the USA government and others of NATO cultivated, armed and support in every way are emancipators of the female gender ?


By your logic that the majority of Syrian Muslims should be GRATEFUL to US for supporting them against the Communist dictator Al-Asad. But again we see that Syrian Muslims (i.e. Muslim Brotherhood & al-Qaeda and Turkish backed Muslim rebels) all are Ungrateful towards US. And it happens only due to religious differences whatever favour US do to them.


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## jamahir

Lehrasap said:


> By your logic that the majority of Syrian Muslims should be GRATEFUL to US for supporting them against the Communist dictator Al-Asad. But again we see that Syrian Muslims (i.e. Muslim Brotherhood & al-Qaeda and Turkish backed Muslim rebels) all are Ungrateful towards US. And it happens only due to religious differences whatever favour US do to them.



What a bunch of confused words you write !

1. Since when did Syrian Muslims become Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood ? Here is Bashar's father Hafiz speaking in *1982* after Syria defeated NATO-backed "Muslim" Brotherhood's terrorism in a six-year war. Listen to his words, they are educating :




Much of the Syrian armed forces and administration is composed of Muslims. They are proper Muslims, rational Muslims, opposite to the agents of the Crusaders of NATO in form of "M"B, AQ, Taliban, Jemah "Islamiya", Dudayev Battalion etc who kill and maim actual Muslims on behalf of NATO.

2. Since when are the "Syrian" "moderate" "rebels" ungrateful to the American establishment ? Here is American senator John McCain meeting with Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood people in Syria ( illegally of course ) in 2013 :






3. I am a Communist and from all accounts the Baath movement headed by Bashar al Assad is not a Communist movement but an intermediate version called Socialist. I and a Communist leader here in my city had a discussion about this, not about Syria but about Saddam's Iraqi Baath government suppressing the Iraqi Communists.

@SalarHaqq, can you please add to my words for our Irani ( really ? ) friend ?

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## jamahir

@Corax, what's with the continuous hahas ?


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## Lehrasap

jamahir said:


> What a bunch of confused words you write !
> 
> 1. Since when did Syrian Muslims become Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood ? Here is Bashar's father Hafiz speaking in *1982* after Syria defeated NATO-backed "Muslim" Brotherhood's terrorism in a six-year war. Listen to his words, they are educating :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much of the Syrian armed forces and administration is composed of Muslims. They are proper Muslims, rational Muslims, opposite to the agents of the Crusaders of NATO in form of "M"B, AQ, Taliban, Jemah "Islamiya", Dudayev Battalion etc who kill and maim actual Muslims on behalf of NATO.
> 
> 2. Since when are the "Syrian" "moderate" "rebels" ungrateful to the American establishment ? Here is American senator John McCain meeting with Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood people in Syria ( illegally of course ) in 2013 :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. I am a Communist and from all accounts the Baath movement headed by Bashar al Assad is not a Communist movement but an intermediate version called Socialist. I and a Communist leader here in my city had a discussion about this, not about Syria but about Saddam's Iraqi Baath government suppressing the Iraqi Communists.
> 
> @SalarHaqq, can you please add to my words for our Irani ( really ? ) friend ?



If you are a communist, then I need not to reply to you, as I was addressing only religious Muslims and not the communists.

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## jamahir

Lehrasap said:


> If you are a communist, then I need not to reply to you, as I was addressing only religious Muslims and not the communists.



 A few hundred thousand Syrian Muslims and non-Muslim have been killed by those very fake-religious "Muslims" whom NATO supports and here you are telling me grandly that you won't reply to me ?

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## Lehrasap

jamahir said:


> A few hundred thousand Syrian Muslims and non-Muslim have been killed by those very fake-religious "Muslims" whom NATO supports and here you are telling me grandly that you won't reply to me ?



Why are you talking to me on this subject? Instead of me, ask this question to your own fellow Muslim members of this forum who supported the rebel Muslims in Syria against the Zandeeq Al-Asad (according to them).


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## jamahir

Lehrasap said:


> Why are you talking to me on this subject? Instead of me, ask this question to your own fellow Muslim members of this forum who supported the rebel Muslims in Syria against the Zandeeq Al-Asad (according to them).



Those "Syrian" "rebels" are anti-Islam. As for those PDF members you refer to, well, forum rules prevent me from saying certain things to them. 

Also, it was you I think who started on this subject.

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## Viet

Interesting facts about Ukraine

Ukraine army with 38,000 women has the highest number of female in service in armed forces.

One is the female sharpshooter “Hexe”, her specialty: 800m distance kill.

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> Why you are asking these two nato bots? Do you really think, they know it?


Probably because stupid people don't know there are something called Open-Source information. And cannot connect the dot that once a missile is fired, it will be seen all over the world. You cannot hide a Cruise Missile or Ballistic Missile being fired and exploded. It's not like they can just disappear out of thin air once they are fired

But then who am I talking to? You probably are even below this level.



Huffal said:


> How many Russian cruise/ballistic missiles have been fired at Ukraine now?
> 
> @jhungary
> @gambit


This is a very complex question. 

Do you count repurposed S-300 missile as Cruise/Ballistic missile? Because 80% of the missile fired since June is S-300 or another repurposed Air-Air Missile. 

If you just counted Ballistic Missile and Cruise missile (like Kaliber), then the number have not changed much since last time It is estimated slightly over 100 of such missiles were fired since May, but if you count S-300 and other missile as well, that number swell to closer to 800

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555481681917779970

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## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555481681917779970


That was an old technique for the gun ship jock so they don't get shot down. 

If you are firing at an inclined angle, the rocket falls off before it reached your intended target, and it is highly inaccurate.

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## SalarHaqq

jamahir said:


> @SalarHaqq, can you please add to my words for our Irani ( really ? ) friend ?



Well, I'd suggest not to take the thread off topic. And I seriously doubt that the user is Iranian. Concerning the user's objection let me just counter by saying, as if the US regime has ever lost sleep due to its useful idiots being "ungrateful": they're firmly in America's pocket and can't do a thing against US interests anyway so Washington couldn't care less what they think of America deep down. Also terrorist attacks against the west have been false flags or engineered ones, carried out with or without the participation of these same patsies (Operation Gladio 2.0). Once they're no longer of any use to Uncle Sam, they're simply disposed of (talk of backstabbing or abandoning partners, a US regime specialty). Also if I may, I'd recommend ignoring certain apologists of western regimes on here. It's not as if their rhetoric will affect Russian victory on the battlefield, nor the definitive removal of a major NATO asset from Moscow's immediate vicinity. Let them. Most of the time their posts aren't worthy of your response.

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## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555481681917779970





jhungary said:


> That was an old technique for the gun ship jock so they don't get shot down.
> 
> If you are firing at an inclined angle, the rocket falls off before it reached your intended target, and it is highly inaccurate.



1. I might get banned again for daring to correct the great JHungary but during the early days of the war the NATO propagandists here ( @Messerschmitt, @F-22Raptor and co. ) used to say the Russian helicopter pilots were scared to fire rockets from a lateral position ( didn't want to attract ground fire - but what's wrong with that ? ) hence they fired nose-up. But as our humanitarian, JHungary, himself says even the Americans did that.

2. Nice to know of the helicopter MLRS technique called Cabrage.

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## ZeGerman

zectech said:


> So 12 HIMARS are going to hold back the entire Russian army, after Russia uses their air force to hunt and destroy the HIMARS.


Russia failed to attain air dominance in ukraine. As such these Himars have been operating almost uncontested.
Fueled by USA intel they have been able to strike some vulnerable targets.

Ofcourse its the 40.000 army that is entrenched with plenty of regular soviet material that is holding the russians off. These Himars just hell even the odds 


zectech said:


> Europe needs tens of thousands of tanks, artillery, IFV, more air power, more air defense, more anti-tank, more nukes.


Why? After ukraine russia had little offensive capacity left. EU air power is more then capable, and we have nukes. 

Spending is set to double. Lets not overdo it however…


zectech said:


> The US solution to each problem: sell more HIMARS. As in sell/send dozens of HIMARS to defend Europe. Nobody sees a problem with this.


Few dozen Himars is a great addition to the army. Especially considering their proven effectiveness against the russian army

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> 1. I might get banned again for daring to correct the great JHungary but during the early days of the war the NATO propagandists here ( @Messerschmitt, @F-22Raptor and co. ) used to say the Russian helicopter pilots were scared to fire rockets from a lateral position ( didn't want to attract ground fire - but what's wrong with that ? ) hence they fired nose-up. But as our humanitarian, JHungary, himself says even the Americans did that.
> 
> 2. Nice to know of the helicopter MLRS technique called Cabrage.


How is it wrong for what I said?

Are you saying just because American pilot is American, they don't get afraid of SAM? Dude, in Iraq, we grounded all gunship if there is a loose stinger missile on the street. This is what we called "Precautionary" method.

And with Russian pilot doing that, that mean they are afraid of being shot down by the ground fire (SAM or small arms). And that's a fact, whether or not you are American, Russian or Martian.

Dude, this is the reason you got banned, for being a condescending poo-poo head, not because of you challenging me.


----------



## jamahir

jhungary said:


> How is it wrong for what I said?
> 
> Are you saying just because American pilot is American, they don't get afraid of SAM? Dude, in Iraq, we grounded all gunship if there is a loose stinger missile on the street. This is what we called "Precautionary" method.
> 
> And with Russian pilot doing that, that mean they are afraid of being shot down by the ground fire (SAM or small arms). And that's a fact, whether or not you are American, Russian or Martian.



No, you are not wrong, on this one at least.



jhungary said:


> Dude, this is the reason you got banned, not because you challenge me.



Please check with a PDF staff member called Amaa'n. He was probably the one to ban me for "Repeated violations".


----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> No, you are not wrong, on this one at least.
> 
> 
> 
> Please check with a PDF staff member called Amaa'n. He was probably the one to ban me for "Repeated violations".


I honestly don't care how or why you got banned.


----------



## jamahir

jhungary said:


> I honestly don't care how or why you got banned.



And Jamahir is condescending he says.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555502462190206977

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> And Jamahir is condescending he says.


Well, as I said, I don't really care about you or being banned to be condescending, I mean, I am not the one here bitch about being banned in the first place.


----------



## zectech

ZeGerman said:


> Russia failed to attain air dominance in ukraine. As such these Himars have been operating almost uncontested.
> Fueled by USA intel they have been able to strike some vulnerable targets.
> 
> Ofcourse its the 40.000 army that is entrenched with plenty of regular soviet material that is holding the russians off. These Himars just hell even the odds
> 
> Why? After ukraine russia had little offensive capacity left. EU air power is more then capable, and we have nukes.
> 
> Spending is set to double. Lets not overdo it however…
> 
> Few dozen Himars is a great addition to the army. Especially considering their proven effectiveness against the russian army



This is a tiny portion of what Europe needs:









Poland to Acquire 500 HIMARS From US


Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Błaszczak has announced that the country will acquire 500 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems.




www.thedefensepost.com





Europe need inexpensive arms. Not spend 5 billion on something that Russian can destroy in a week.

Iran perfected the manufacturing of inexpensive arms.
For this reason, a war against Iran is very hard for the US, and US temporarily abandon this for war with China.
Israel wants Iran gone, and is wanting to use nuclear weapons, the assassination of the General was supposed to get the Iranians to lash out against Israel and Israel would nuke Iran.

This was no accident:









Netanyahu accidentally calls Israel a 'nuclear power'


***




www.haaretz.com





Netanyahu was threatening Iran if Iran strikes Israel, Israel could nuke Iran.

Trump/Putin wants the EU nuked by Russia, China nuked, and Iran nuked. "With Israel acting in 'self-defense'"









Russia threatens to nuke Europe as tensions escalate dramatically


RUSSIA issues an extraordinary threat to Europe on Monday, warning it would be willing to turn nuclear weapons on the continent if its demands aren't met.




www.express.co.uk





The EU should not exist as a rival to the Entente of UK, US, Russia, France and the zionists. These are still fighting WWI. A weak continental Europe of Germany, Italy and lesser states is a requirement to the Entente.





__





Loading…






www.theatlantic.com













Donald Trump Declares The European Union A 'Foe'


"In a trade sense, they’ve really taken advantage of us.”




www.huffpost.com





Trump is the face of the cia deepstate of Pompeo and Bushites (William Barr)









The Real Deep State Is Trump


How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom




newrepublic.com





Iran has utilized the use of proxy wars to get at Israeli expansionism and blocking zionist wars.
Iran is at an temporary impass to war and that is what Iran wants due to inexpensive arms.
The way to contain Iran is to sanction Iran, and this is multi-purposed. Against Iran, against oil and natural gas markets, against European energy independence from Russia by getting rid of JCPOA.
The US wants war, yet cannot because Iran won with having the inexpensive arms that would have a quagmire due to mass production of inexpensive arms that Europe needs against Russia.

Putin is not attacking the HIMARS because there are only a small number, if Russia destroy them, there is to be political pressure by Biden to send more. Putin is more than happy that the press is covering only 12 HIMARS as holding back the Russians. US should send hundreds. Yet, then Putin would easily destroy hundreds. Putins war goals is not only Ukraine, Putin and handlers are trying to destroy the economy of Europe.

The goal for Europe is to not bankrupt the EU in arms sales and yet have enough arms to capture Moscow. And to have Germany and Italy develop their own nuclear weapons at numbers equal to Russia. That would cause more chimping out at Washington than Putin threatening nuclear war on Europe. Which would completely expose Washington as a tool of Trump.

MLRS were very effective in the Gulf War. Though against a superpower with 1300 aircraft and many more missiles/rockets, it is not the same as fighting weak Iraq. A full scale EU war vs Russia, it would be different than the Ukraine War. There are many reasons to keep this Ukraine War going as long as possible, Putin wants the EU to hang themselves in hyperinflation and a crashed euro. A EU vs Russia war would be much quicker and different than the Ukraine War.

Gales of stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3, 2...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555501701444034560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555470758868033537


----------



## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555501701444034560
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555470758868033537


Not sure I’d be lol’ing when American equipment is decimating Russian equipment and all of china’s tech and equipment is Russian based. 
That’s not even taking into account western sanctions of China really wants to play this game.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555260284717174785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555264338222612481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555291854274543619

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555523460058710017

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
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## The SC




----------



## zectech

zectech said:


> This is a tiny portion of what Europe needs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poland to Acquire 500 HIMARS From US
> 
> 
> Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Błaszczak has announced that the country will acquire 500 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedefensepost.com


What is great about Poland getting so many HIMARS is they are enough to make a difference, so when the US spins the news as HIMARS stopping the Russian invasion of the EU, who cares. EU is saved. If Russia destroys those HIMARS, then Poland is getting 1000s of tanks and other equipment to supplement these. So if Russia destroys the 500 HIMARS, then Washington has egg on their face in selling these to Europe as the 'saviour of Europe'. 500 is a substantial sum, so Washington won't be able to say, you did not buy enough. How many HIMARS does Washington have. Washington psy-ops are clues to their agenda. Trump and Putin are buddies, Trump warned Europe that US would not defend Europe unless paid more money into defense, trump said privately that trump wanted to leave NATO and abandon Europe to Russia. Every honest intelligence analyst would come to the same conclusion that Trump had foreknowledge of Putin invading Europe. Meaning Trump is in on it with Putin.

The Russia-US planned psy-op of HIMARS is to make them the "ultimate weapon" that you only need a few of to hold back a Russian invasion. Poland destroyed that. Congrats to Poland.

Gales of stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3....


----------



## Viet

zectech said:


> What is great about Poland getting so many HIMARS is they are enough to make a difference, so when the US spins the news as HIMARS stopping the Russian invasion of the EU, who cares. EU is saved. If Russia destroys those HIMARS, then Poland is getting 1000s of tanks and other equipment to supplement these. So if Russia destroys the 500 HIMARS, then Washington has egg on their face in selling these to Europe as the 'saviour of Europe'. 500 is a substantial sum, so Washington won't be able to say, you did not buy enough. How many HIMARS does Washington have. Washington psy-ops are clues to their agenda. Trump and Putin are buddies, Trump warned Europe that US would not defend Europe unless paid more money into defense, trump said privately that trump wanted to leave NATO and abandon Europe to Russia. Every honest intelligence analyst would come to the same conclusion that Trump had foreknowledge of Putin invading Europe. Meaning Trump is in on it with Putin.
> 
> The Russia-US planned psy-op of HIMARS is to make them the "ultimate weapon" that you only need a few of to hold back a Russian invasion. Poland destroyed that. Congrats to Poland.
> 
> Gales of stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3....


No reason to laugh
The US himars is much more advanced than anything Russia has in inventory.
All peaceful rhetoric is faked. Putin has prepared this war against Ukraine since years. He can tap the giant storage of 3,220 Grad/Uragan missile launchers and 10,200 tanks.





_Mehrfachraketenwerfer Grad 122 mm (Reichweite 20.5 km; A.S.)_
Ergänzt werden die Grad-Werfer durch den Einsatz der weitreichenderen Mehrfachraketenwerfer Uragan und Smerch.



_Mehrfach-Raketenwerfer Uragan 220 mm (Reichweite 35–40 km; A.S.)_
Russland hat in seinen Rüstungsarsenalen einen riesigen Bestand an solchen Waffen. Dort sind 10’200 Kampfpanzer der Typen T-72, T-80 und T-90 und 3’220 Mehrfachraketenwerfern der Typen Grad und Uragan eingelagert.


----------



## The SC




----------



## ZeGerman

zectech said:


> This is a tiny portion of what Europe needs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poland to Acquire 500 HIMARS From US
> 
> 
> Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Błaszczak has announced that the country will acquire 500 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedefensepost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe need inexpensive arms. Not spend 5 billion on something that Russian can destroy in a week.
> 
> Iran perfected the manufacturing of inexpensive arms.
> For this reason, a war against Iran is very hard for the US, and US temporarily abandon this for war with China.
> Israel wants Iran gone, and is wanting to use nuclear weapons, the assassination of the General was supposed to get the Iranians to lash out against Israel and Israel would nuke Iran.
> 
> This was no accident:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netanyahu accidentally calls Israel a 'nuclear power'
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netanyahu was threatening Iran if Iran strikes Israel, Israel could nuke Iran.
> 
> Trump/Putin wants the EU nuked by Russia, China nuked, and Iran nuked. "With Israel acting in 'self-defense'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia threatens to nuke Europe as tensions escalate dramatically
> 
> 
> RUSSIA issues an extraordinary threat to Europe on Monday, warning it would be willing to turn nuclear weapons on the continent if its demands aren't met.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The EU should not exist as a rival to the Entente of UK, US, Russia, France and the zionists. These are still fighting WWI. A weak continental Europe of Germany, Italy and lesser states is a requirement to the Entente.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump Declares The European Union A 'Foe'
> 
> 
> "In a trade sense, they’ve really taken advantage of us.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.huffpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump is the face of the cia deepstate of Pompeo and Bushites (William Barr)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Real Deep State Is Trump
> 
> 
> How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> newrepublic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran has utilized the use of proxy wars to get at Israeli expansionism and blocking zionist wars.
> Iran is at an temporary impass to war and that is what Iran wants due to inexpensive arms.
> The way to contain Iran is to sanction Iran, and this is multi-purposed. Against Iran, against oil and natural gas markets, against European energy independence from Russia by getting rid of JCPOA.
> The US wants war, yet cannot because Iran won with having the inexpensive arms that would have a quagmire due to mass production of inexpensive arms that Europe needs against Russia.
> 
> Putin is not attacking the HIMARS because there are only a small number, if Russia destroy them, there is to be political pressure by Biden to send more. Putin is more than happy that the press is covering only 12 HIMARS as holding back the Russians. US should send hundreds. Yet, then Putin would easily destroy hundreds. Putins war goals is not only Ukraine, Putin and handlers are trying to destroy the economy of Europe.
> 
> The goal for Europe is to not bankrupt the EU in arms sales and yet have enough arms to capture Moscow. And to have Germany and Italy develop their own nuclear weapons at numbers equal to Russia. That would cause more chimping out at Washington than Putin threatening nuclear war on Europe. Which would completely expose Washington as a tool of Trump.
> 
> MLRS were very effective in the Gulf War. Though against a superpower with 1300 aircraft and many more missiles/rockets, it is not the same as fighting weak Iraq. A full scale EU war vs Russia, it would be different than the Ukraine War. There are many reasons to keep this Ukraine War going as long as possible, Putin wants the EU to hang themselves in hyperinflation and a crashed euro. A EU vs Russia war would be much quicker and different than the Ukraine War.
> 
> Gales of stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3, 2...


Europe (minus uk even) has 2500 aircraft…..and plenty of anti air systems apart from the cheaper stuff.

Seriously, why do we need to fear russia in air? Russia will most likely flat out lose the air war. 
You do realise russian training hours, combined warfare training is all much lower level then Nato? Hence the shit show in ukraine…

So also no “hunting” artillery and mlrs for them. 

I do agree europe got careless and need to sort out their independant defence, but russia after ukraine is not really a conventional threat.

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## zectech

Here is my source on Russian Air Force, from a thread link on PDF forums.

1399 combat aircraft before the war, minus aircraft lost according to Ukraine, and those not working or mothballed to scrap material.









Capabilities By Country | Aerial | Russia


Compare the fixed wing combat aircraft in service with world's aerial powers. Quantities and technology are hardly the only factors that determine the outcome of a conflict or the potency of an air force, but an analysis of the assets available can be used to indicate which countries are most...




militarywatchmagazine.com





Plus those delivered. So I estimated ~1300+.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555645809751883776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555652075207417863

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555640054172745729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555630506280116224

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555601709602324481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555537632234438661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555516601914593280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555516153853890561

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1 | Sad Sad:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555635195725889537

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555515156859441153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555505090785689601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555477914329694208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555470012374306816

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555610293287301120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555597296653434881

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Type59

Viet said:


> No reason to laugh
> The US himars is much more advanced than anything Russia has in inventory.
> All peaceful rhetoric is faked. Putin has prepared this war against Ukraine since years. He can tap the giant storage of 3,220 Grad/Uragan missile launchers and 10,200 tanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Mehrfachraketenwerfer Grad 122 mm (Reichweite 20.5 km; A.S.)_
> Ergänzt werden die Grad-Werfer durch den Einsatz der weitreichenderen Mehrfachraketenwerfer Uragan und Smerch.
> 
> 
> 
> _Mehrfach-Raketenwerfer Uragan 220 mm (Reichweite 35–40 km; A.S.)_
> Russland hat in seinen Rüstungsarsenalen einen riesigen Bestand an solchen Waffen. Dort sind 10’200 Kampfpanzer der Typen T-72, T-80 und T-90 und 3’220 Mehrfachraketenwerfern der Typen Grad und Uragan eingelagert.


BM 30 Smerch is in Russian service. Importantly it is capable of delivering precision guided rockets.


----------



## Soldier35

An episode of the battle in Ukraine with the use of the Bumblebee-M rocket-propelled infantry flamethrower has been published. A platoon of flamethrowers was given the task of suppressing strongholds of the Ukrainian army with fire and providing a path for the advancement of armored vehicles of the Russian troops. Flamethrowers moved as close as possible to the strongholds of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and entered into battle with the Ukrainian army. After that, they retreated to positions to further cover the advance of Russian units in armored vehicles.






Russian servicemen showed the preparation for firing of the modernized Russian rocket-propelled infantry flamethrower PDM-A "Shmel-M". The maximum firing range of a jet flamethrower is 1700 meters, the aiming range is 800 meters. The mass of the warhead is 3 kilograms, the weight of the flamethrower is 8.8 kilograms. The circular dispersion of the Shmel-M flamethrower at a distance of 300 m is 0.5 m. More details in the video.






Ukrainian T-72M tanks, delivered earlier from Europe, appeared at the front. According to media reports, the Ukrainian army is gathering a strike force for a counteroffensive, the direction of the strike is still unknown.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Exclusive: U.S. readies new $1 billion Ukraine weapons package​By Idrees Ali
and Mike Stone
3 minute read






A view shows a M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) is being fired in an undisclosed location, in Ukraine in this still image obtained from an undated social media video uploaded on June 24, 2022 via Pavlo Narozhnyy/via REUTERS/File

WASHINGTON, Aug 5 (Reuters) - The Biden administration's next security assistance package for Ukraine is expected to be $1 billion, one of the largest so far, and include munitions for long-range weapons and armored medical transport vehicles, three sources briefed on the matter told Reuters on Friday.

Reporting by Idrees Ali and Mike Stone in Washington; Editing by Mary Milliken and Josie Kao

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Viet

Zelinskki accuses Russia of terrorism and asks for international sanctions against Russia nuclear industry especially against Rosatom.







*LIVEBLOG*
Krieg gegen die Ukraine++ Selenskyj fordert neue Sanktionen ++​








Liveblog: ++ Selenskyj fordert neue Sanktionen ++


Nach dem Beschuss eines Atomkraftwerks hat der ukrainische Präsident Selenskyj Sanktionen gegen Russlands Nuklearindustrie gefordert. Der erste Getreide-Frachter soll am Sonntag im Libanon ankommen. Die Entwicklungen vom Freitag zum Nachlesen.




www.tagesschau.de

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Zelinskki accuses Russia of terrorism and asks for international sanctions against Russia nuclear industry especially against Rosatom.



LOL, let's all forget the UkroNazis.

And what happened to Zelensky wanting China to talk to Russia ?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

jamahir said:


> LOL, let's all forget the UkroNazis.
> 
> And what happened to Zelensky wanting China to talk to Russia ?


What would you do if you were Zelinskki?
Putin is a fanatic autist. He only listens to himself. And to some few people among them Belarus, Syria, China and Turkey. Chinese have the most weight. Understandable Zelinskki wants China to speak to Putin.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Oksana Pokalchuk, the head of Amnesty International’s office in Ukraine, has resigned from her role following a report published by the human rights organisation which accused the Ukrainian military of breaching international humanitarian law.

The report, which has been criticised by Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, as well as western diplomats, including the British and US ambassadors to Ukraine, accused the Ukrainian military of putting civilians at risk by positioning themselves in residential areas such as empty schools or civilian buildings, meaning Russia will target urban areas risking civilian lives in the crossfire.

*You can read more about the report here;*









Ukraine: military endangering civilians by locating forces in residential areas - new research


We are Amnesty International UK. We are ordinary people from across the world standing up for humanity and human rights.




www.amnesty.org.uk





The report has also been heavily critical of Russia for using indiscriminate cluster munitions.

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> What would you do if you were Zelinskki?
> Putin is a fanatic autist. He only listens to himself. And to some few people among them Belarus, Syria, China and Turkey. Chinese have the most weight. Understandable Zelinskki wants China to speak to Putin.



If I was Zelensky I would listen to the concerns of the Russians and the Syrians and other volunteers who have been fighting UkroNazis for months and helping Ukrainian civilians terrorized by the UkroNazis cultivated by NATO and I would order the military command to stop fighting and then I would sit at a table in China, facing Putin and talk to him. Fair ?

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## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 868382
> 
> Oksana Pokalchuk, the head of Amnesty International’s office in Ukraine, has resigned from her role following a report published by the human rights organisation which accused the Ukrainian military of breaching international humanitarian law.
> 
> The report, which has been criticised by Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, as well as western diplomats, including the British and US ambassadors to Ukraine, accused the Ukrainian military of putting civilians at risk by positioning themselves in residential areas such as empty schools or civilian buildings, meaning Russia will target urban areas risking civilian lives in the crossfire.
> 
> *You can read more about the report here;*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: military endangering civilians by locating forces in residential areas - new research
> 
> 
> We are Amnesty International UK. We are ordinary people from across the world standing up for humanity and human rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.amnesty.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The report has also been heavily critical of Russia for using indiscriminate cluster munitions.



Amnesty was in India until shut down by Modi and contrary to the fact of Modi being a NATO man, Amnesty in India was being sensible for a change. Now this lady, Oksana, turns out to also be sensible to some extent and brave to criticize Zelensky - He Who Must Be Adored By Decree Of White House. What she says in the report is what the PDF threads on the war have been carrying right since the war started on February 24.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555901489838788614

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

jamahir said:


> If I was Zelensky I would listen to the concerns of the Russians and the Syrians and other volunteers who have been fighting UkroNazis for months and helping Ukrainian civilians terrorized by the UkroNazis cultivated by NATO and I would order the military command to stop fighting and then I would sit at a table in China, facing Putin and talk to him. Fair ?


How about this: Putin just orders his troop to withdraw and piss off. International sanctions can gradually ease. Fair?

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Sad Sad:
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## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> More cruel war crimes from the Russian Nazis. And yes it’s real, I’ve seen the video.
> 
> Russia needs to be obliterated and rebuilt like the Germans and Japanese after WW2. A barbaric nation



Oh shut up please. Your friend @Apollon had months ago lovingly posted the photo of the jaw of a Russian soldier who had been killed by the Ukrops. Apollon was smilingly describing the various ways in which the Russian might have been killed. The photo was sent to him by a psycho Ukrainian friend of his. Russian body parts are being passed around as trophies by the UkroNazis. My recent ban, which ended three days ago, was because of a few things I posted in the original war thread including posting about the various types of torture and murders the Ukrainian nationalists / UkroNazis did against the Russians. You ask the PDF staff member Amaa'n who banned me for posting that content. So it is not Russia that is a war crimes country but the UkroNazis / Ukrops. It is these who are cruel and barbaric and must be taken to the war crimes court, not in compromised Hague but somewhere else like Cuba.

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## F-22Raptor

jamahir said:


> Oh shut up please. Your friend @Apollon had months ago lovingly posted the photo of the jaw of a Russian soldier who had been killed by the Ukrops. Apollon was smilingly describing the various ways in which the Russian might have been killed. The photo was sent to him by a psycho Ukrainian friend of his. Russian body parts are being passed around as trophies by the UkroNazis. My recent ban, which ended three days ago, was because of a few things I posted in the original war thread including posting about the various types of torture and murders the Ukrainian nationalists / UkroNazis did against the Russians. You ask the PDF staff member Amaa'n who banned me for posting that content. So it is not Russia that is a war crimes country but the UkroNazis / Ukrops. It is these who are cruel and barbaric and must be taken to the war crimes court, not in comprised Hague but somewhere else like Cuba.




Russia is murdering, raping, looting, torturing, their way through Ukraine. There are thousands of examples from the very beginning of this war. A barbaric nation that needs to be destroyed and remade in the image of the Germans and Japanese after WW2. Their crimes would make Nazi Germany proud. 

In the early days of the war I felt bad for the Russians getting incinerated, then all the photos and videos of Russian crimes came pouring in, and my feelings completely changed. Russia is a terrorist state, a barbaric nation, that needs to be bulldozed. Just as Nazi Germany and the Empire of Japan before it.

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## mulj

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is murdering, raping, looting, torturing, their way through Ukraine. There are thousands of examples from the very beginning of this war. A barbaric nation that needs to be destroyed and remade in the image of the Germans and Japanese after WW2. Their crimes would make Nazi Germany proud.
> 
> In the early days of the war I felt bad for the Russians getting incinerated, then all the photos and videos of Russian crimes came pouring in, and my feelings completely changed. Russia is a terrorist state, a barbaric nation, that needs to be bulldozed. Just as Nazi Germany and the Empire of Japan before it.


Cool story, will you show that consistancy towards Israel for example?

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## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is murdering, raping, looting, torturing, their way through Ukraine. There are thousands of examples from the very beginning of this war. A barbaric nation that needs to be destroyed and remade in the image of the Germans and Japanese after WW2. Their crimes would make Nazi Germany proud.
> 
> In the early days of the war I felt bad for the Russians getting incinerated, then all the photos and videos of Russian crimes came pouring in, and my feelings completely changed. Russia is a terrorist state, a barbaric nation, that needs to be bulldozed. Just as Nazi Germany and the Empire of Japan before it.



Yes, it was Russia that did these :

North Korean city of Wonsan in 1951 :






Exactly 60 years later a Libyan city :





And when did you feel bad for the Russians ? Can you show me two posts ? You and your chums were happily posting Russian deaths and UkroNazi killing sprees.

@Foinikas, look at his words about Russia to be bulldozed and all. We have Apollon v2.



Viet said:


> How about this: Putin just orders his troop to withdraw and piss off. International sanctions can gradually ease. Fair?



Withdrawal can be done but can you write what Russia wanted Zelensky to do during the initial phase of the war ?

And I don't think Russia now cares for these "international" sanctions. "International" as in Western bloc and its followers.

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## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is murdering, raping, looting, torturing, their way through Ukraine. There are thousands of examples from the very beginning of this war. A barbaric nation that needs to be destroyed and remade in the image of the Germans and Japanese after WW2. Their crimes would make Nazi Germany proud.
> 
> In the early days of the war I felt bad for the Russians getting incinerated, then all the photos and videos of Russian crimes came pouring in, and my feelings completely changed. Russia is a terrorist state, a barbaric nation, that needs to be bulldozed. Just as Nazi Germany and the Empire of Japan before it.


I got news for you









Ukraine: Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians


Military bases set up in residential areas including schools and hospitals Attacks launched from populated civilian areas Such violations in no way justify Russia’s indiscriminate attacks, which have killed and injured countless civilians Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by...




www.amnesty.org













Amnesty International report exposes Ukraine’s violations of international law, deliberate use of civilians as human shields


The report has dealt a significant blow to the relentless war propaganda in the media and has provoked a hysterical response by the Ukrainian government.



www.wsws.org





All the screaming about Russians in the winter...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555899176617140226

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555884295193038848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555901587121389571

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555835834275872769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555511873566494721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555250907029286912

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC



Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555978764735205379


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555919684507246596

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555899176617140226
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555884295193038848
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555901587121389571
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555835834275872769
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555511873566494721
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555250907029286912



Apparently, the reason these drones are almost impossible to track and destroy is that they fly at a very low speed and are almost invisible to radar. It's quite ironic that their fairly basic technological features are what outsmart high technology defences.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555935964438069251


----------



## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555978764735205379



You send message to NATO Situation Center that Ukrainian soldiers are bidding adieu to Zelensky :


The SC said:


>

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## The SC




----------



## aziqbal

Russians are now in the centre of Bakhmut and Avdiivka 

The Soviet Steamroller has broke through the Bakhmut-Soldar-Seversk defensive lines which was fortified for 8 years since 2014 with deep tunnels, trenches and heavy concrete interlocking pill boxes 

it also had high ground which was very hard to take, Russian took it 

the Soviets are Soviets, no one knows how to take land better than them which is why they are the largest nation on earth for 500 years 

they are masters of diversion and encirclement of armies 

they also have a huge stomach to take punishment and casualties and can absorb anything you through at them 

next line is the Kramastrosk-Sloviansk and actually this line is more heavily defended than previous one 

but no doubt Russians will crush all opposition

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Yes, it was Russia that did these :
> 
> North Korean city of Wonsan in 1951 :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly 60 years later a Libyan city :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And when did you feel bad for the Russians ? Can you show me two posts ? You and your chums were happily posting Russian deaths and UkroNazi killing sprees.
> 
> @Foinikas, look at his words about Russia to be bulldozed and all. We have Apollon v2.
> 
> 
> 
> Withdrawal can be done but can you write what Russia wanted Zelensky to do during the initial phase of the war ?
> 
> And I don't think Russia now cares for these "international" sanctions. "International" as in Western bloc and its followers.


What Putin wants? He wants a total destruction of Ukraine. There is no room for negotiation. Nil.

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## Type59

kingQamaR said:


> Apparently, the reason these drones are almost impossible to track and destroy is that they fly at a very low speed and are almost invisible to radar. It's quite ironic that their fairly basic technological features are what outsmart high technology defences.



Well this tech is not exclusively for western armies. Iran has invested alot into drone warfare, they gonna feel vindicated by this war. Importantly Hezbollah will gain knowledge from this conflict.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555992465399750656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555888445028974592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555981740962988032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555986123893182465


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555975010044502016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555974436909727745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555973527282614278

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555940490847162368

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## Viet

The front lines haven’t changed much since May.
The Russians have big advantage in big numbers of artillery, tanks. However low morale.
Ukraine army lack artillery, tanks but has high fighting spirit.
If Ukraine can retake Kherson then thing will become interesting.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555790408617037824

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555838360924700672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555832813261393921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555816212692697088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555688856879599616


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555921331497074690

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
2


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## zectech

"Junior Partner Europe" has relied on "daddy USA" for energy security (we'll have enough energy, we have our transatlantic partners to protect us) and defense security (US would defend Europe from Russian invasion) and economic security. Deepstater Trump should have been a massive warning to Europe that Washington not only does not care if the EU crashes and burns. Washington wants the EU competitor to crash and burn. Deepstate Trump is 100% on Putins side and for Putin goals. Same with Tucker Carlson and other Trumpers who cheer for Putin vs "neoliberal" "gay" EU.

Europe needs to get back to the JCPOA and dump the US as leader of European policies if these dozen or so HIMARS fail to protect Europe in the next weeks.

Iran has more natural gas than they could use in a 1000 years. US and UK say no to JCPOA. EU needs to forget about the UK and US on JCPOA and get cheap energy now.

Biden would spin it as catering to Iran, when the US deepstate framed this event to end the EU, so to heck with that USA crap.

"A dozen or so HIMARS and 100 or so artillery to save Europe." lol

The war on Europe is energy and economic. So go with the JCPOA to flood the markets with natural gas, bring down the prices that are sometimes a 10 fold increase in Europe.

The Putin war aim for Europe is to end the EU, euro and success in Europe. JCPOA is the way to fight back. You think Putin wants the JCPOA to flood the markets with cheap energy, when the Saudis agreed with Putin to not keep energy prices low early on, to cause economic harm to the EU. Putin does not want to sell engines to Iran. Does not want the JCPOA for Iran. Of course, Putin would say Putin supports Iran in every way, when this is the real Putin: Putin is a Zionist Jew. The President of Israel said Putin has Jewish grandparent(s).









A nationalist streak runs through Putin’s love for Jews and Israel


Experts say pragmatism and an understanding of Russia's multi-ethnic indigenous culture drive the Kremlin's close ties with both rabbis and Jerusalem




www.timesofisrael.com





So defeat zionist Putin, EU go for the JCPOA.

It is either economic ruin for Europe or JCPOA. Don't rely on Washington to save Europe.

The war is more than Ukraine.

If Russia does invade the EU, US would "save" Europe with 100 HIMARS, as the way to keep loyal to NATO promises. Expect less than peanuts to defend NATO from a Russian invasion. When Poland know their 500 HIMARS order is not enough to hold back Russia. Are the Muricans not going to fulfill the order to Poland fast enough so Poland does not get their order before a Russian invasion.









'The EU cannot defend Europe': NATO chief


NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg warned Thursday that Europe's defence depends on close transatlantic bonds and not on a quest for the continent's strategic autonomy.




news.yahoo.com





Here is Russia. Listen to this Chabad Jew brag about Jews owning the Russian economy.





__





Putin and Jews






www.bitchute.com





Gales of stupid laughter 5, 4, 3, 2,...

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> What would you do if you were Zelinskki?
> Putin is a fanatic autist. He only listens to himself. And to some few people among them Belarus, Syria, China and Turkey. Chinese have the most weight. Understandable Zelinskki wants China to speak to Putin.


Yeh, he needs to be putin his place. NATO is trying, not getting very far.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555727433852243968


----------



## The SC




----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555888445028974592


How did they know they where firering at a HIMARS system? It doesnt show on the footage.. Its kind of strange Russia hasnt been able to provide recordings of HIMARS from a drone yet, isnt? I mean they claim to have destroyed practically all Ukraine have recieved.


----------



## F-22Raptor

MeFishToo said:


> How did they know they where firering at a HIMARS system? It doesnt show on the footage.. Its kind of strange Russia hasnt been able to provide recordings of HIMARS from a drone yet, isnt? I mean they claim to have destroyed practically all Ukraine have recieved.



Russia hasn't destroyed any HIMARS. Its that simple.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## zectech

Here is the video of the President of Israel outing one of Putins jewish grandparents.



Jewish Grandmother of Putin



Putin is a Jewish Soviet deepstater. And a Zionist Jew. Meaning Putin sincerely does not care about the safety of Iranians. Meaning it is perfectly ok for the EU to go for the JCPOA because it defeats Putin in many, many ways. The JCPOA is not good for Putin in a single way. JCPOA is 100% good for the EU.

To provide further proof that Putin is in on it with MI6, here is a Twitter blue checkmark member exposing the MI6, Russian Oligarchs and Putin ties









Putin’s Plot Against ‘Great’ Britain – And How He Got Away With It – Byline Times


Peter Jukes tracks Vladimir Putin’s long war against the West and the allies he has found in the pro-Brexit establishment in the plot to derail Britain




bylinetimes.com





Here is RT News exposing Yeltsin as a cia puppet.

_The first Russian president, Boris Yeltsin, was surrounded by “hundreds” of CIA agents who told him what to do throughout his tenure as leader. That’s according to Ruslan Khasbulatov, the former chairman of Russia’s parliament._



https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/



The most important decision made by Yeltsin was the appointment of Putin to be successor of Yeltsin. Yeltsin was surrounded by hundreds of CIA agents who told Yeltin what to do throughout Yeltsins tenure.

This explains why cia deepstater Trump and Putin have the same Russian criminal connections. Russian oligarchs, Russian Chabad, Russian mafia. And MI6, cia and mossad are connected to these FSB connected groups.

Gales of stupid laughter 5, 4, 3, 2,...


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555790408617037824


Lol, yeh complete bs.
It’s like the US invading the UK because the US beat the red coats, gtfo


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555668022383230977

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556010901018497026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556002768351121409

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555965042507530243

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555958707732856833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555955239706042368


----------



## Vergennes

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556002768351121409



LMAO,I wonder what Russians are smoking but that seems good.
​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556009955198750720


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555893665570119684

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555872125059321856

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

While they say they support the one China policy.. there is nothing to understand from this world's politics..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555859621184774145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555856522734931969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555637692137881603

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555727587787378689


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556080924571344898

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555797821596598272

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Lehrasap

jamahir said:


> Yes, it was Russia that did these :
> 
> North Korean city of Wonsan in 1951 :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly 60 years later a Libyan city :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And when did you feel bad for the Russians ? Can you show me two posts ? You and your chums were happily posting Russian deaths and UkroNazi killing sprees.
> 
> @Foinikas, look at his words about Russia to be bulldozed and all. We have Apollon v2.
> 
> 
> 
> Withdrawal can be done but can you write what Russia wanted Zelensky to do during the initial phase of the war ?
> 
> And I don't think Russia now cares for these "international" sanctions. "International" as in Western bloc and its followers.



What was wrong in North Korea, why it became Halal for you in Ukraine? 
Why you then support invasion of Russin in Ukraine?
Why did you start deeming looting of Russians in Ukraine to be a Halal act now?


----------



## Lehrasap

zectech said:


> "Junior Partner Europe" has relied on "daddy USA" for energy security (we'll have enough energy, we have our transatlantic partners to protect us) and defense security (US would defend Europe from Russian invasion) and economic security. Deepstater Trump should have been a massive warning to Europe that Washington not only does not care if the EU crashes and burns. Washington wants the EU competitor to crash and burn. Deepstate Trump is 100% on Putins side and for Putin goals. Same with Tucker Carlson and other Trumpers who cheer for Putin vs "neoliberal" "gay" EU.
> 
> Europe needs to get back to the JCPOA and dump the US as leader of European policies if these dozen or so HIMARS fail to protect Europe in the next weeks.
> 
> Iran has more natural gas than they could use in a 1000 years. US and UK say no to JCPOA. EU needs to forget about the UK and US on JCPOA and get cheap energy now.
> 
> Biden would spin it as catering to Iran, when the US deepstate framed this event to end the EU, so to heck with that USA crap.
> 
> "A dozen or so HIMARS and 100 or so artillery to save Europe." lol
> 
> The war on Europe is energy and economic. So go with the JCPOA to flood the markets with natural gas, bring down the prices that are sometimes a 10 fold increase in Europe.
> 
> The Putin war aim for Europe is to end the EU, euro and success in Europe. JCPOA is the way to fight back. You think Putin wants the JCPOA to flood the markets with cheap energy, when the Saudis agreed with Putin to not keep energy prices low early on, to cause economic harm to the EU. Putin does not want to sell engines to Iran. Does not want the JCPOA for Iran. Of course, Putin would say Putin supports Iran in every way, when this is the real Putin: Putin is a Zionist Jew. The President of Israel said Putin has Jewish grandparent(s).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A nationalist streak runs through Putin’s love for Jews and Israel
> 
> 
> Experts say pragmatism and an understanding of Russia's multi-ethnic indigenous culture drive the Kremlin's close ties with both rabbis and Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So defeat zionist Putin, EU go for the JCPOA.
> 
> It is either economic ruin for Europe or JCPOA. Don't rely on Washington to save Europe.
> 
> The war is more than Ukraine.
> 
> If Russia does invade the EU, US would "save" Europe with 100 HIMARS, as the way to keep loyal to NATO promises. Expect less than peanuts to defend NATO from a Russian invasion. When Poland know their 500 HIMARS order is not enough to hold back Russia. Are the Muricans not going to fulfill the order to Poland fast enough so Poland does not get their order before a Russian invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'The EU cannot defend Europe': NATO chief
> 
> 
> NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg warned Thursday that Europe's defence depends on close transatlantic bonds and not on a quest for the continent's strategic autonomy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is Russia. Listen to this Chabad Jew brag about Jews owning the Russian economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin and Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com



Iranian Islamic Government has worse record of Human Rights than Russia. 
These Mullahs are bigger dictatorship than Putin. 
I just hope that the Western world never ever feel itself forced to recognize dictatorships like Iran or Taliban.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556080924571344898

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556073188508958721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556078720372379650

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Lehrasap said:


> What was wrong in North Korea, why it became Halal for you in Ukraine?
> Why you then support invasion of Russin in Ukraine?
> Why did you start deeming looting of Russians in Ukraine to be a Halal act now?


Most cheer the Russia war of aggression because of different motives. It’s a zoo.
- the West is rich, liberal, progressive.
- the West is decadent.
- the West is Christian.
- the West is Jews.
- the West can make cars.
- the West has the Nato.

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## Viet

Why Katar is rich? Russia poor?
Both have oil, gas.
Russia has more lands, more smart people, more natural resources actually should become richer than Katar.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Soldier35

Russian artillery destroyed three tanks of the Ukrainian army with a pinpoint strike. Exploded and ammunition depot

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khansaheeb

jamahir said:


> If I was Zelensky I would listen to the concerns of the Russians and the Syrians and other volunteers who have been fighting UkroNazis for months and helping Ukrainian civilians terrorized by the UkroNazis cultivated by NATO and I would order the military command to stop fighting and then I would sit at a table in China, facing Putin and talk to him. Fair ?


How about Zelensky should be sent to Israel where he belongs with all the other Zio Nazis and Russia and Ukraine live happily ever after?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556080924571344898
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556073188508958721
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556078720372379650


Again with this “morale is zero” bullshit we have seen for months.

if morale was zero..then why have the UAF lines not collapsed? Back then…and now…

Instead we see russia grinding a few km a day at high cost. UAF resisting despite being constantly and heavily shelled.

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## khansaheeb

ZeGerman said:


> Again with this “morale is zero” bullshit we have seen for months.
> 
> if morale was zero..then why have the UAF lines not collapsed? Back then…and now…
> 
> Instead we see russia grinding a few km a day at high cost. UAF resisting despite being constantly and heavily shelled.


What we see is Russia achieving its objectives and Ukraine failing to do so and the Ukrainian civilians suffering hugely.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia hasn't destroyed any HIMARS. Its that simple.


Himras the invincible superstar

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

jamahir said:


> If I was Zelensky I would listen to the concerns of the Russians and the Syrians and other volunteers who have been fighting UkroNazis for months and helping Ukrainian civilians terrorized by the UkroNazis cultivated by NATO and I would order the military command to stop fighting and then I would sit at a table in China, facing Putin and talk to him. Fair ?


Not really.

Putin questioned ukraine statehood, and just invaded a sovereign nation (which it vowed to protect by the way, for giving up nuclear weapons). Trying to annex huge parts of land while flattening villages on the way. 

The moment putin calls back his orcs, the moment the war is over. Zelenski offered to talk with putin, macron talked, it was simple…putin did not want to talk peace.



khansaheeb said:


> What we see is Russia achieving its objectives and Ukraine failing to do so and the Ukrainian civilians suffering hugely.


What is russias objective? 
Lose its entire modern standing army, having multiple neutral nations join nato, have ukraine firmly anti-russian and set to join eu? 

defending Kiev and remaining a state instead of being completely cut in two or under a puppet regime is already a strategic win for ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

khansaheeb said:


> How about Zelensky should be sent to Israel where he belongs with all the other Zio Nazis and Russia and Ukraine live happily ever after?



Possible, but this is not just about Zelensky but about the cruel "humans" he commands. There must be thousands of them. What should become of them ? My latest ban was about me posting the exploits of these "humanitarian" people. Perhaps forum management deemed it too graphic.



Viet said:


> What Putin wants? He wants a total destruction of Ukraine. There is no room for negotiation. Nil.



Yes, he wants total destruction of Ukraine and that is why Russian forces deliver food, water, medicine and other supplies to the Ukrainian civilians whose cities the Russians and allies liberate.



Viet said:


> Most cheer the Russia war of aggression because of different motives. It’s a zoo.
> - the West is rich, liberal, progressive.
> - the West is decadent.
> - the West is Christian.
> - the West is Jews.
> - the West can make cars.
> - the West has the Nato.



I am a Communist so this "Rich West" is immaterial to me.

I am a Communist so I am a real progressive.

I have nothing against innocent and rational Christians and Jews. I as a Muslim respect Hazrat Isa and I am circumcized which is a Jewish rite but could have been adopted by Jews from others.

About cars I call for this :





Making the case for a global ban on privately-owned personal transport cars and two-wheelers


I have often made this topic in posts so I thought why not create a thread for this for discussion and readership. Privately-owned personal transport vehicles ( cars and two-wheelers ) are I believe the biggest form of pollution in the world, directly through their usage and secondarily through...



defence.pk





NATO is the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization ever since its establishment in 1948. 74 years of global terrorism.



Lehrasap said:


> What was wrong in North Korea, why it became Halal for you in Ukraine?
> Why you then support invasion of Russin in Ukraine?
> Why did you start deeming looting of Russians in Ukraine to be a Halal act now?



When was North Korea haraam to me ? I keep saying that North Korea despite the atrocious sanctions on it for decades imposed by NATO, has managed to maintain a welfare-based society. Though one thing I really want in North Korea is the abolition of the quasi monarchy of the Kim family and establishment of actual Communism via direct democracy / participatory democracy like was present in the Libyan Jamahiriya and is being implemented in Venezuela.

Russia came into Ukraine to deNazify and demilitarize. If I post the details of the atrocities of the UkroNazis and Ukrops since during World War 2 till now I will get banned again. I came back from ban just a few days ago for posting those very details which probably forum management deemed graphic.

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## jamahir

ZeGerman said:


> Not really.
> 
> Putin questioned ukraine statehood, and just invaded a sovereign nation (which it vowed to protect by the way, for giving up nuclear weapons). Trying to annex huge parts of land while flattening villages on the way.
> 
> The moment putin calls back his orcs, the moment the war is over. Zelenski offered to talk with putin, macron talked, it was simple…putin did not want to talk peace.



1. DeNazification and Demilitarization. These were the two desires of Russia about Ukraine. What is stopping our dear humanitarianism poster boy Zelensky from removing Nazis ?

2. Sovereign nation Ukraine ? Nice that NATO remembers this. But didn't so much remember in case of Iraq and Libyan Jamahiriya and 1980s Afghanistan, and doesn't remember in case of Syria and Venezuela.

3. Putin doesn't want to talk peace ? So what are those food packets, water bottles and medicine strips and other things the Russians and allies deliver to Ukrainian citizens of liberated cities ? Are they poison ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556174574546550784


----------



## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> 1. DeNazification and Demilitarization. These were the two desires of Russia about Ukraine. What is stopping our dear humanitarianism poster boy Zelensky from removing Nazis ?
> 
> 2. Sovereign nation Ukraine ? Nice that NATO remembers this. But didn't so much remember in case of Iraq and Libyan Jamahiriya and 1980s Afghanistan, and doesn't remember in case of Syria and Venezuela.
> 
> 3. Putin doesn't want to talk peace ? So what are those food packets, water bottles and medicine strips and other things the Russians and allies deliver to Ukrainian citizens of liberated cities ? Are they poison ?


Lol what their 5 trucks of expired aid?

Oh please get off the this is justified because of Iraq and Afghanistan train, that argument holds 0 water.



jamahir said:


> 1. DeNazification and Demilitarization. These were the two desires of Russia about Ukraine. What is stopping our dear humanitarianism poster boy Zelensky from removing Nazis ?
> 
> 2. Sovereign nation Ukraine ? Nice that NATO remembers this. But didn't so much remember in case of Iraq and Libyan Jamahiriya and 1980s Afghanistan, and doesn't remember in case of Syria and Venezuela.
> 
> 3. Putin doesn't want to talk peace ? So what are those food packets, water bottles and medicine strips and other things the Russians and allies deliver to Ukrainian citizens of liberated cities ? Are they poison ?


May I add denazification is a fancy word for extermination, ala ww2 nazis. Care to continue to beat that drum or can’t you see the irony?


----------



## jamahir

RoadAmerica said:


> Lol what their 5 trucks of expired aid?



I suppose The Kyiv Independent told you that.



RoadAmerica said:


> Oh please get off the this is justified because of Iraq and Afghanistan train, that argument holds 0 water.



Why ?



RoadAmerica said:


> May I add denazification is a fancy word for extermination, ala ww2 nazis. Care to continue to beat that drum or can’t you see the irony?



Really ? Have you seen Russian missiles or bomber aircraft flattening Kiev or any power station ? Just an example.


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> Possible, but this is not just about Zelensky but about the cruel "humans" he commands. There must be thousands of them. What should become of them ? My latest ban was about me posting the exploits of these "humanitarian" people. Perhaps forum management deemed it too graphic.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, he wants total destruction of Ukraine and that is why Russian forces deliver food, water, medicine and other supplies to the Ukrainian civilians whose cities the Russians and allies liberate.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Communist so this "Rich West" is immaterial to me.
> 
> I am a Communist so I am a real progressive.
> 
> I have nothing against innocent and rational Christians and Jews. I as a Muslim respect Hazrat Isa and I am circumcized which is a Jewish rite but could have been adopted by Jews from others.
> 
> About cars I call for this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Making the case for a global ban on privately-owned personal transport cars and two-wheelers
> 
> 
> I have often made this topic in posts so I thought why not create a thread for this for discussion and readership. Privately-owned personal transport vehicles ( cars and two-wheelers ) are I believe the biggest form of pollution in the world, directly through their usage and secondarily through...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO is the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization ever since its establishment in 1958. 64 years of global terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> When was North Korea haraam to me ? I keep saying that North Korea despite the atrocious sanctions on it for decades imposed by NATO, has managed to maintain a welfare-based society. Though one thing I really want in North Korea is the abolition of the quasi monarchy of the Kim family and establishment of actual Communism via direct democracy / participatory democracy like was present in the Libyan Jamahiriya and is being implemented in Venezuela.
> 
> Russia came into Ukraine to deNazify and demilitarize. If I post the details of the atrocities of the UkroNazis and Ukrops since during World War 2 till now I will get banned again. I came back from ban just a few days ago for posting those very details which probably forum management deemed graphic.


They don’t come to deliver foods.
Putin invasion army is a bunch of looters and rapists. They can keep foods to feed the poor in Russia.


----------



## ZeGerman

jamahir said:


> 1. DeNazification and Demilitarization. These were the two desires of Russia about Ukraine. What is stopping our dear humanitarianism poster boy Zelensky from removing Nazis ?


Please, an agressor nation that commited genocide against you in the past telling you to “denazifiy” based on their everchanging definition and black lists…

And demilitarise so they can steal land whenever they feel like it (2014). Despite security promises. 



jamahir said:


> 2. Sovereign nation Ukraine ? Nice that NATO remembers this. But didn't so much remember in case of Iraq and Libyan Jamahiriya and 1980s Afghanistan, and doesn't remember in case of Syria and Venezuela.


Nato Did not annex and why does ukraine have to pay for the sins of USA/France? 



jamahir said:


> 3. Putin doesn't want to talk peace ? So what are those food packets, water bottles and medicine strips and other things the Russians and allies deliver to Ukrainian citizens of liberated cities ? Are they poison ?


Ethnically cleansing cities. And annexing the land with the remaining 15% pro russians is indeed not peace


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556236305343909888

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Rana4pak

*what amercia nato and local traitor remove this guy and bring a comedian than this is due to happen …







*

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3


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## dBSPL

Turkish F-16s operating in Polish airspace





via Cem Doğut

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1


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## Viet

Ukraine will receive another aid package from the EU: 8 billion euros.
Meanwhile the EU imposes more sanctions on Russian stooges.









Russia Ukraine conflict: EU aims for $8.15 bln Ukraine funding package by September: German official


The European Union intends to put together a financing package for Ukraine worth around 8 billion euros ($8.15 billion) by September, a German government



english.alarabiya.net

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Invictus01

I always thought the Russians would easily wipe the Ukrainians off of their soil
Ukraine had no weapons 
Their soldiers were poorly trained
They could hardly fend off the rebels in donesk 
But they've put up a solid fight and the Russians have to fight for every inch of land 
Kinda poor tactics from the Russian high command
No solid armour thrust anywhere on the front line
No intentions to break through and encircle the Ukrainians


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556299982789120000


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Invictus01 said:


> I always thought the Russians would easily wipe the Ukrainians off of their soil
> Ukraine had no weapons
> Their soldiers were poorly trained
> They could hardly fend off the rebels in donesk
> But they've put up a solid fight and the Russians have to fight for every inch of land
> Kinda poor tactics from the Russian high command
> No solid armour thrust anywhere on the front line
> No intentions to break through and encircle the Ukrainians



Before the war started, Ukrainians had 250,000 active duty military personnel and 530,000 reserve forces.

They had countless air defense, missile, howitzers, tanks, and fighter jets.

They had and still have the support of NATO which provides countless financial and military support including missiles, rockets, aerial, naval, and sattelite imagery, guidance, and intelligence support. 

They have a terrain that is full of forests and rivers, which are perfect hide-outs for an army that is waging an asymmetric warfare. 

Most importantly, as former Marine Colonel and UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter confirmed, Ukraine could militarily beat any nation in NATO except USA and Turkey.

Furthermore, Russia was imposed the most severe economic embargo that any nation had ever faced. It was a siege designed to suffocate the Russian economy.

So when you look at those conditions, Russia liberating the whole LPR and most of DPR in addition to big towns in the South such as Meriupol, Kherson, and others, clearly point to the overwhelming odds the Russians faced and their military superiority for gradually defeating Ukraine backed by NATO. 

Russia fighting inch by inch means they want to minimize their casualties while inflicting heavy losses on Ukrainian forces. Russians are truly providing a classical textbook of how to defeat an army backed by powerful adversary like NATO. It is a miracle that Russia survived the siege while making a gradual progress in the battle-field.

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## Gomig-21

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555921331497074690



That guy took that mine like a man like I've never seen before. Almost all of the time anyone steps on a personnel landmine and it blows off one or both his lower extremities or even legs up to the knees, they're bloodied and more importantly are screaming in pain and panic and freakout or, are in complete shock. This guy was trying to talk to someone on the radio and handing it to one of his comrades and was cool, calm and collected despite having just stepped on a mine! Incredible.



Invictus01 said:


> I always thought the Russians would easily wipe the Ukrainians off of their soil
> Ukraine had no weapons
> Their soldiers were poorly trained
> They could hardly fend off the rebels in donesk
> But they've put up a solid fight and the Russians have to fight for every inch of land
> Kinda poor tactics from the Russian high command
> No solid armour thrust anywhere on the front line
> No intentions to break through and encircle the Ukrainians



This is very true. I think everyone, including the anti-Russian contingent are completely shocked and surprised at the performance of the Russians in this war. I think we were so accustomed to seeing all the Russian might that developed through the years post WWII, including their immense effort in defending Russia and then turning the tide against Nazi Germany while essentially defeating it first, before the Allies reached Berlin. While the Allies certainly share a large portion of the Nazi defeat, the Russians made their part of the conflict an unparalleled staple for their might and performance.

All that followed by the weapon's race between the Soviet Union and the United States including the near worldly disaster that was the Cuban Missile Crisis which still followed decades of mere level competition in power between the two countries until the fall of the Soviet Union.

I think that even with the collapse of communism in the USSR and its transformation into the Russian Federation and the result in stagnation in its economic & military industry, it still was able to eventually rebound and keep its standing as the 2nd most poweful superpower in the world. I don't think anyone denied that even with China's rise.

Then we're met with this strangely lacking performance, and I say lacking simply because it is so far off from our perception of Russia's military prowess. Even its scorched earth tactics that it used in Syria were still a display of its brutal power, regardless of its legalities, it still showcased its tremendous power and especially in the air.

So to see this performance in what Russia itself labels as only "a military operation" and not a full-fledged war, well, so wasn't their participation in Syria the same level. So why has it shown such underrated results in this case?

Even the fact that Ukraine was arguably the most essential republic of the former Soviet Union, with its economy and industry that flourished with its independence post-Soviet Union collapse and became one of Europe's most economically successful countries.

Even then, with all that success, it still used almost exclusively all Soviet and Russian equipment in its military. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that Soviet tactics and war strategies were also a large part of its methods which brings us to this perplexing status.

If all of this was so well-known to Russia, why has this "military operation" been a very difficult and very costly process for Russia? Is its military prowess actually false, overrated, or is its equipment the problem? Or was it a lack of a well-designed predetermined strategy that led to it just not have enough military discipline and training among all its branches to be able to conduct an effective, all-encompassing, well-planned & all-around well-executed, successful military campaign?

The first impression I got was that it didn't have a well-established combined arms protocol that it could base this and any other military conflict off of. It hadn't set up any formal, disciplined and well-planned strategy or training between land forces, air forces and navy. We see single units in huge open fields getting easily targeted by Ukrainian CMs and artillery or UCAvs. We see undisciplined strategies of taking the northern sector and getting shut down at Kyiv only to abandon that entire and essential target to focus on the east and south of Ukraine, primarily to create an all-out Russian land corridor to Crimea is my guess. This entire effort seems to lack that well-planned war effort of strategizing and prioritizing essential targets, fulfilling the required missions to achieve them and hold them.

Not to take anything away from the Ukrainians and the all-out worldly effort to assist & aid them against Russia (especially US material and the ever so important Intel,) but the lack of effectiveness in so many military engagements from the so-called 2nd superpower in the world is dumfounding.

Many might not like this, but they must look at this objectively regardless of who they're rooting for in this conflict and regardless of the sanctions that have been imposed on Russia. It still should've been able to crush the Ukrainian military and overwhelm the entire eastern front all the way to Kyiv in the north straight down to Crimea and do it exactly the way the US or NATO would've. After having performed extensive intel and organized a critical list of military (and even political) targets, being prepared in trained manpower, start the conflict with nothing but a month of pounding from the air with Tu-22s, Su-35s, Su-24s, etc. Drop tons of munitions on all acquired military targets (even past the critical Kyiv/Crimea line and into Ukraine proper) and soften the entire eastern portion of the Ukraine so that once that's completed, you then send in your land forces with the proper tactics in armored units and infantry. Plan their movements in organized patterns with specific lists of targets to take out and have a well-organized group of engineering battalions follow in cue to fix and setup critical aspects etc. and layout an effective, mobile air defense structure to protect those moving forces. Russia has the best mobile SAM systems in the world and to not have them placed well enough to completely obliterate a practically non-existent Ukrainian air force should be automatic. Instead, they were practically decapitated by Ukraine's use of UAVs and small amounts of Ukrainian air force sorties that boggles the mind.

The way they lost so many helicopters to MANPADs early through mid-part of the conflict is perfectly indicative of the lack of strategy I'm referring to. That's like such a no-brainer that we saw in Syria and several other recent conflicts that those losses should've been completely averted.

I could get into so much more of the technical aspects based on strictly my opinion, but the post is long already, and I don't want to bore you and others, but you get the gist of what I'm saying anyway.

As a huge fan of Russia but do not encourage or support the invasion of another country even though I do realize why Russia is doing this and, in some ways, understand the reason. Still, I would've rather seen a much more diplomatic resolution exhausted to its final limits first. But I'm sure that everyone who's following this war is either shocked or seriously disappointed at Russia's military strategy and overall performance in this conflict, regardless of what side you're on. There are no two ways about it.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So when you look at those conditions, Russia liberating the whole LPR and most of DPR in addition to big towns in the South such as Meriupol, Kherson, and others, clearly point to the overwhelming odds the Russians faced and their military superiority for gradually defeating Ukraine backed by NATO.



You make excellent points, Hassan. I still think that despite the sanctions, Russia was still in a formidable military position to perform much better than it has, especially in terms of strategy. The beginning and early part of the war did not look like a great military that did everything it needed to prepare for such a huge undertaking and it almost seems like a piece-meal effort. Figure it out as we go sort of thing and that's actually a very important element of war, having the ability to make critical decisions on the fly or when actions don't go as planned. But even to the layman, they didn't seem to start this conflict with a precise strategy to wipe out all or as much of Ukraine's critical military structures and soften its ability to fight before sending in their invasion forces.

I know this is sticky for many of the anti-US & pro-Russia fellas here, but just think what the US would've done if the roles were interchanged. Put the US in place of Russia and how do you suppose it would've handled the same exact thing? Anyone is welcome to answer that and I'm sure we would all agree on the same exact thing.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556275627333787649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556267868269969409


Spoiler: Graphic

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1


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## PakFactor

It's amazing how in the Western media coverage has been tone downed.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556220579681710082


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556344761447026689


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556316287285993476

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556287888639369218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556262676623499271

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556157439090753536


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556301447540756481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556289784619974658

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556286860128931843

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556279282938380291

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556290433575256066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556292081144012808

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


----------



## khansaheeb

jamahir said:


> Possible, but this is not just about Zelensky but about the cruel "humans" he commands. There must be thousands of them. What should become of them ? My latest ban was about me posting the exploits of these "humanitarian" people. Perhaps forum management deemed it too graphic.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, he wants total destruction of Ukraine and that is why Russian forces deliver food, water, medicine and other supplies to the Ukrainian civilians whose cities the Russians and allies liberate.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Communist so this "Rich West" is immaterial to me.
> 
> I am a Communist so I am a real progressive.
> 
> I have nothing against innocent and rational Christians and Jews. I as a Muslim respect Hazrat Isa and I am circumcized which is a Jewish rite but could have been adopted by Jews from others.
> 
> About cars I call for this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Making the case for a global ban on privately-owned personal transport cars and two-wheelers
> 
> 
> I have often made this topic in posts so I thought why not create a thread for this for discussion and readership. Privately-owned personal transport vehicles ( cars and two-wheelers ) are I believe the biggest form of pollution in the world, directly through their usage and secondarily through...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO is the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization ever since its establishment in 1958. 64 years of global terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> When was North Korea haraam to me ? I keep saying that North Korea despite the atrocious sanctions on it for decades imposed by NATO, has managed to maintain a welfare-based society. Though one thing I really want in North Korea is the abolition of the quasi monarchy of the Kim family and establishment of actual Communism via direct democracy / participatory democracy like was present in the Libyan Jamahiriya and is being implemented in Venezuela.
> 
> Russia came into Ukraine to deNazify and demilitarize. If I post the details of the atrocities of the UkroNazis and Ukrops since during World War 2 till now I will get banned again. I came back from ban just a few days ago for posting those very details which probably forum management deemed graphic.


lol-" North Atlantic Terrorist Organization "

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khansaheeb

Invictus01 said:


> I always thought the Russians would easily wipe the Ukrainians off of their soil
> Ukraine had no weapons
> Their soldiers were poorly trained
> They could hardly fend off the rebels in donesk
> But they've put up a solid fight and the Russians have to fight for every inch of land
> Kinda poor tactics from the Russian high command
> No solid armour thrust anywhere on the front line
> No intentions to break through and encircle the Ukrainians


Not true at all, Ukrainian soldiers had been part of the Soviet army for a long time and had weapons manufacturing plants and were well armed and well trained. The main issue was that Ukrainian soldiers were reluctant to fight the Russians who they did not consider as an enemy but that has been tactically changed.


----------



## jhungary

Gomig-21 said:


> That guy took that mine like a man like I've never seen before. Almost all of the time anyone steps on a personnel landmine and it blows off one or both his lower extremities or even legs up to the knees, they're bloodied and more importantly are screaming in pain and panic and freakout or, are in complete shock. This guy was trying to talk to someone on the radio and handing it to one of his comrades and was cool, calm and collected despite having just stepped on a mine! Incredible.
> 
> 
> 
> This is very true. I think everyone, including the anti-Russian contingent are completely shocked and surprised at the performance of the Russians in this war. I think we were so accustomed to seeing all the Russian might that developed through the years post WWII, including their immense effort in defending Russia and then turning the tide against Nazi Germany while essentially defeating it first, before the Allies reached Berlin. While the Allies certainly share a large portion of the Nazi defeat, the Russians made their part of the conflict an unparalleled staple for their might and performance.
> 
> All that followed by the weapon's race between the Soviet Union and the United States including the near worldly disaster that was the Cuban Missile Crisis which still followed decades of mere level competition in power between the two countries until the fall of the Soviet Union.
> 
> I think that even with the collapse of communism in the USSR and its transformation into the Russian Federation and the result in stagnation in its economic & military industry, it still was able to eventually rebound and keep its standing as the 2nd most poweful superpower in the world. I don't think anyone denied that even with China's rise.
> 
> Then we're met with this strangely lacking performance, and I say lacking simply because it is so far off from our perception of Russia's military prowess. Even its scorched earth tactics that it used in Syria were still a display of its brutal power, regardless of its legalities, it still showcased its tremendous power and especially in the air.
> 
> So to see this performance in what Russia itself labels as only "a military operation" and not a full-fledged war, well, so wasn't their participation in Syria the same level. So why has it shown such underrated results in this case?
> 
> Even the fact that Ukraine was arguably the most essential republic of the former Soviet Union, with its economy and industry that flourished with its independence post-Soviet Union collapse and became one of Europe's most economically successful countries.
> 
> Even then, with all that success, it still used almost exclusively all Soviet and Russian equipment in its military. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that Soviet tactics and war strategies were also a large part of its methods which brings us to this perplexing status.
> 
> If all of this was so well-known to Russia, why has this "military operation" been a very difficult and very costly process for Russia? Is its military prowess actually false, or is its equipment the problem? Or did it just not have enough military discipline and training among all its branches to be able to conduct an effective, all-encompassing, well-planned & all-around well-executed & successful?
> 
> The first impression I got was that it didn't have a well-established combined arms protocol that it could base this and any other military conflict off of. It hadn't set up any formal, disciplined and well-planned strategy or training between land forces, air forces and navy. We see single units in huge open fields getting easily targeted by Ukrainian CMs and artillery or UCAvs. We see undisciplined strategies of taking the northern sector and getting shut down at Kyiv only to abandon that entire and essential target to focus on the east and south of Ukraine, primarily to create an all-out Russian land corridor to Crimea is my guess. This entire effort seems to lack that well-planned war effort of strategizing and prioritizing essential targets, fulfilling the required missions to achieve them and hold them.
> 
> Not to take anything away from the Ukrainians and the all-out worldly effort to assist & aid them against Russia (especially US material and the ever so important Intel,) but the lack of effectiveness in so many military engagements from the so-called 2nd superpower in the world is dumfounding.
> 
> Many might not like this, but they must look at this objectively regardless of who they're rooting for in this conflict and regardless of the sanctions that have been imposed on Russia. It still should've been able to crush the Ukrainian military and overwhelm the entire eastern front all the way to Kyiv in the north straight down to Crimea and do it exactly the way the US or NATO would've. After having performed extensive intel and organized a critical list of military (and even political) targets, being prepared in trained manpower, start the conflict with nothing but a month of pounding from the air with Tu-22s, Su-35s, Su-24s, etc. Drop tons of munitions on all acquired military targets (even past the critical Kyiv/Crimea line and into Ukraine proper) and soften the entire eastern portion of the Ukraine so that once that's completed, you then send in your land forces with the proper tactics in armored units and infantry. Plan their movements in organized patterns with specific lists of targets to take out and have a well-organized group of engineering battalions follow in cue to fix and setup critical aspects etc. and layout an effective, mobile air defense structure to protect those moving forces. Russia has the best mobile SAM systems in the world and to not have them placed well enough to completely obliterate a practically non-existent Ukrainian air force should be automatic. Instead, they were practically decapitated by Ukraine's use of UAVs and small amounts of Ukrainian air force sorties that boggles the mind.
> 
> The way they lost so many helicopters to MANPADs early through mid-part of the conflict is perfectly indicative of the lack of strategy I'm referring to. That's like such a no-brainer that we saw in Syria and several other recent conflicts that those losses should've been completely averted.
> 
> I could get into so much more of the technical aspects based on strictly my opinion, but the post is long already, and I don't want to bore you and others, but you get the gist of what I'm saying anyway.
> 
> As a huge fan of Russia but do not encourage or support the invasion of another country even though I do realize why Russia is doing this and, in some ways, understand the reason. Still, I would've rather seen a much more diplomatic resolution exhausted to its final limits first. But I'm sure that everyone who's following this war is either shocked or seriously disappointed at Russia's military strategy and overall performance in this conflict, regardless of what side you're on. There are no two ways about it.
> 
> 
> 
> You make excellent points, Hassan. I still think that despite the sanctions, Russia was still in a formidable military position to perform much better than it has, especially in terms of strategy. The beginning and early part of the war did not look like a great military that did everything it needed to prepare for such a huge undertaking and it almost seems like a piece-meal effort. Figure it out as we go sort of thing and that's actually a very important element of war, having the ability to make critical decisions on the fly or when actions don't go as planned. But even to the layman, they didn't seem to start this conflict with a precise strategy to wipe out all or as much of Ukraine's critical military structures and soften its ability to fight before sending in their invasion forces.
> 
> I know this is sticky for many of the anit-US fellas here, but just think what the US would've done if the roles were interchanged. Put the US in place of Russia and how do you suppose it would've handled the same exact thing? Anyone is welcome to answer that and I'm sure we would all agree on the same exact thing.


Your answer lies in what Russia able to capture in Ukraine.

The answer, in case you have missed, is within 50km of Russian border. If you draw a point on any of the area Russia captured in Ukraine in this war, it goes back to within 50 km from either Russian Border, or Ukrainian land already under Russian control since 2014.

That tell you 2 things.

1.) Logistic is a problem for Russia, the charge for Kyiv show you how Russia depends on Railway on logistic, their ground base logistic is a joke, as a result, they can't penetrate Ukraine into Kyiv (That's roughly 150km away from Belarus border) despite they have been in Belarus training for months (3 or 4 I forgot) before the war started.

2.) The Russian Air Force is not functioning correctly. 50km is within Artillery range, anything further than that, you will need a proper air force to interdict the theatre, you cannot move artillery and anti-air deeper into your enemy soil unless you have air superiority, and Russian Air Force failed to get it for the Russian, hence they met resistant when they try to march in deeper than their artillery coverage off the border.

Now, there are 2 things here, what Russian Military are, and what our perception of what Russian Military are. If they lived up to their standard, which is the number 2 military in the world, they would already had taken Kyiv in the first month and according to some US Planner, by July, they would have been attacking Dnipro, instead they are stopped at E40 highway with minor gain since Sieverodonetsk, which was taken a months ago.

If you want to ask how US would do this? We would go in with our air force and destroy the Ukrainian Air Force on the ground and in the air, sure, we may suffer some casualty, but the Air Superiority is absolute. Then we will pick off the Ukrainian military parts by parts, and bypass town that don't have strategic value and go after regional capital. This is how this war should have fought. Many people mistaken that Russian Military come into this fight with a lot of advantage and experience, the problem is, Russia had not handled a war in a way it should probably since 1960. That is why they lost touch on modern warfare, what Russia is doing now is nothing but WW2 style siege warfare, it would work up to a point, but not always, it depends on how Ukraine adapted the fight and what kind of heavy equipment the west is willing to give.


----------



## The SC




----------



## khansaheeb

ZeGerman said:


> Not really.
> 
> Putin questioned ukraine statehood, and just invaded a sovereign nation (which it vowed to protect by the way, for giving up nuclear weapons). Trying to annex huge parts of land while flattening villages on the way.
> 
> The moment putin calls back his orcs, the moment the war is over. Zelenski offered to talk with putin, macron talked, it was simple…putin did not want to talk peace.
> 
> 
> What is russias objective?
> Lose its entire modern standing army, having multiple neutral nations join nato, have ukraine firmly anti-russian and set to join eu?
> 
> defending Kiev and remaining a state instead of being completely cut in two or under a puppet regime is already a strategic win for ukraine


To liberate the Donbass region which they have successfully done.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556247724676218881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556392828858662914
The Biden administration is really desperate if they're going around in Africa, and telling them not to buy Russia's oil with Rubles.

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## qwerrty

PakFactor said:


> It's amazing how in the Western media coverage has been tone downed.

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## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> I suppose The Kyiv Independent told you that.
> 
> 
> 
> Why ?
> 
> 
> 
> Really ? Have you seen Russian missiles or bomber aircraft flattening Kiev or any power station ? Just an example.


Haha they don’t have air superiority and they never will



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Before the war started, Ukrainians had 250,000 active duty military personnel and 530,000 reserve forces.
> 
> They had countless air defense, missile, howitzers, tanks, and fighter jets.
> 
> They had and still have the support of NATO which provides countless financial and military support including missiles, rockets, aerial, naval, and sattelite imagery, guidance, and intelligence support.
> 
> They have a terrain that is full of forests and rivers, which are perfect hide-outs for an army that is waging an asymmetric warfare.
> 
> Most importantly, as former Marine Colonel and UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter confirmed, Ukraine could militarily beat any nation in NATO except USA and Turkey.
> 
> Furthermore, Russia was imposed the most severe economic embargo that any nation had ever faced. It was a siege designed to suffocate the Russian economy.
> 
> So when you look at those conditions, Russia liberating the whole LPR and most of DPR in addition to big towns in the South such as Meriupol, Kherson, and others, clearly point to the overwhelming odds the Russians faced and their military superiority for gradually defeating Ukraine backed by NATO.
> 
> Russia fighting inch by inch means they want to minimize their casualties while inflicting heavy losses on Ukrainian forces. Russians are truly providing a classical textbook of how to defeat an army backed by powerful adversary like NATO. It is a miracle that Russia survived the siege while making a gradual progress in the battle-field.


Minimize casualties, do you even believe the crap you shovel 💩


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556236938931085313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556252791554834433


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556347691906596865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556342220822831105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556397504522031104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556348017636253696

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556236938931085313
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556252791554834433


This is absolutely moronic if true. You don't start another offensive after taking territory, you consolidate.

This is why the Russians are facing such a high level insurgency in areas they've taken, and are suffering deep losses.

The Russian military and political systems are filled with idiots.


----------



## aviator_fan

gambit said:


> If you read post 1786, that is the tone about the US in PDF. The US was 'defeated' in Iraq, and everywhere else. Just go along with it.


I agree, US was defeated everywhere except Granada. That is why Afghanistan is much better place with 80% at starvation. And middle east (Iraq, Syria) are at their military strength and economic prosperity that the Israelis shiver in their pants when they go to sleep. That would have only happened if US lost and we know on this forum that they lost because a few 100 snipers over a decade picked off 4000 soldiers.



Corax said:


> This is what you simple minded Mericuns can't seem to grasp.
> 
> Military force is an extension of political policy. Sure, the Mericun military is outstanding at "defeating" peasants, goat herders, and a country like Iraq that was brought to its knees through crippling sanctions for over 10 years that left over 500,000 children dead, which was endorsed by your politicians, not to mention the 100,000s civilians killed directly by the "mighty" Mericun military.
> 
> But Iraq has been effectively handed over to full control of Iran, which can now pose a direct threat to Israel, with way more capability that Iraq could ever dream about. And Afghanistan is back in full control of the Taliban again, and seems to be harbouring and supporting terrorist groups again...it's like the past 20 years never happened and Afghanistan is back to how it was in 2001. If you want to call that a "strategic" victory, go right ahead


Yes you believe that: Israel somehow is under threat when every day they are bolder in their actions in occupied territories, and hitting Iran through assassinations in-country. This never happened up until 3-4 years. I think its a good dream for you to feel good that Iran poses a direct threat to Isreal, but certainly is not how Israel acts on a daily basis. Unless you think this is all a trap that Iranians have cunningly set for Israel that will unfold after your and my lifetime (by which time all occupied territories will be emptied out) and every GCC country will be a partner to Israel (only Saudi Arabia needs to come around)

Hardly an endorsement of your Iran theory!

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Before the war started, Ukrainians had 250,000 active duty military personnel and 530,000 reserve forces.
> 
> They had countless air defense, missile, howitzers, tanks, and fighter jets.
> 
> They had and still have the support of NATO which provides countless financial and military support including missiles, rockets, aerial, naval, and sattelite imagery, guidance, and intelligence support.
> 
> They have a terrain that is full of forests and rivers, which are perfect hide-outs for an army that is waging an asymmetric warfare.
> 
> Most importantly, as former Marine Colonel and UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter confirmed, Ukraine could militarily beat any nation in NATO except USA and Turkey.
> 
> Furthermore, Russia was imposed the most severe economic embargo that any nation had ever faced. It was a siege designed to suffocate the Russian economy.
> 
> So when you look at those conditions, Russia liberating the whole LPR and most of DPR in addition to big towns in the South such as Meriupol, Kherson, and others, clearly point to the overwhelming odds the Russians faced and their military superiority for gradually defeating Ukraine backed by NATO.
> 
> Russia fighting inch by inch means they want to minimize their casualties while inflicting heavy losses on Ukrainian forces. Russians are truly providing a classical textbook of how to defeat an army backed by powerful adversary like NATO. It is a miracle that Russia survived the siege while making a gradual progress in the battle-field.


What the lame excuse for a country with a military second to the US. You will probably give the weather in Ukraine for Russia incompetence.



That Guy said:


> This is absolutely moronic if true. You don't start another offensive after taking territory, you consolidate.
> 
> This is why the Russians are facing such a high level insurgency in areas they've taken, and are suffering deep losses.
> 
> The Russian military and political systems are filled with idiots.


The offensive is not surprising. Russia goal has not changed. Lavrov said it recently they will exterminate Ukraine.


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## Type59

Viet said:


> What the lame excuse for a country with a military second to the US.



What's lame is that people think war is predictable. 

Unfortunately alot of simpletons on this forum and globally.


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## Viet

Type59 said:


> What's lame is that people think war is predictable.
> 
> Unfortunately alot of simpletons on this forum and globally.


War is back and forth. Russia now took 20 percent of Ukraine after 6 months. lost almost all best men and equipment. Ukraine however lacks weapons to take back territory. By this pace the war can last another 10 years.
Russia economy would be on the level of Syria when the war is over.

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## Lehrasap

Rana4pak said:


> *what amercia nato and local traitor remove this guy and bring a comedian than this is due to happen …
> View attachment 868673
> View attachment 868673
> *



It is stupid to claim and believe in such conspiracy theory. It is the population of Ukraine which hates Putin for his aggressive behavior and his wish to usurp the liberty of Ukraine and make it a part of Russia forcefully.

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## Type59

Viet said:


> War is back and forth. Russia now took 20 percent of Ukraine after 6 months. lost almost all best men and equipment. Ukraine however lacks weapons to take back territory. By this pace the war can last another 10 years.
> Russia economy would be on the level of Syria when the war is over.



Maybe...


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## Viet

Type59 said:


> Maybe...


Putin can’t defy economic logic.
he needs money to finance the gov budget and army. Where to take the money? 2/3 of the money comes from energy exports. Now there is a big problem on the horizon. Take gas. Gazprom sells 180 billion cubic meters gas to Europe, only 10 billion cubic meters to China. The chinese would need to increase imports by 18x if Europe stops buying. Or Europe buys less. That’s impossible. Even if, I don’t think Chinese are so stupid to buy everything from Putin. Europe learns a hard lesson. Putin is unpredictable, he is seeking wars. Europe buying less then to nothing from Russia is expected to happen next year.

Germany will complete the first gas imports terminal by end of this year.


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## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> Putin can’t defy economic logic.
> he needs money to finance the gov budget and army. Where to take the money? 2/3 of the money comes from energy exports. Now there is a big problem on the horizon. Take gas. Gazprom sells 180 billion cubic meters gas to Europe, only 10 billion cubic meters to China. The chinese would need to increase imports by 18x if Europe stops buying. Or Europe buys less. That’s impossible. Even if, I don’t think Chinese are so stupid to buy everything from Putin. Europe learns a hard lesson. Putin is unpredictable, he is seeking wars. Europe buying less then to nothing from Russia is expected to happen next year.
> 
> Germany will complete the first gas imports terminal by end of this year.


If not for the timing (post corona shortages), massively fueling energy cost already…russias economy would be in a much more dire strait.

But with no more gas to europe, russia simply does not have the infrastructure to sell that amount to others yet. 

Now If energy prices also reduce due to recession….russia will be completely screwed if the war and sanctions would still be ongoing spring next year.


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## Soldier35

Russian sappers conducting demining in Ukraine collected a large number of mines and grenades. All this was destroyed in one explosion. The explosion in power is equal to the explosion of 3 tons of explosives in TNT equivalent.






Donetsk militia spoke about the difficult assault on the village of Peski. The Ukrainian army created three lines of powerful defense and even dug underground passages between the basements of houses, this is a small part of what they had to face during the battles in the village. Details of the assault in the video. (Subtitles)






The United States sent Mi-24 and Mi-17 helicopters to Ukraine. The helicopters were previously purchased from Russia for the Afghan army, but were eventually transferred to the Ukrainian army. Video with helicopters has already been published by the Ukrainian army.

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> If not for the timing (post corona shortages), massively fueling energy cost already…russias economy would be in a much more dire strait.
> 
> But with no more gas to europe, russia simply does not have the infrastructure to sell that amount to others yet.
> 
> Now If energy prices also reduce due to recession….russia will be completely screwed if the war and sanctions would still be ongoing spring next year.


Usually building a gas pipeline in Germany takes 8 years. Now the first pipeline will be completed in 4 months.
Yes in 4 months.









LNG-Terminal Wilhelmshaven: Bau der Pipeline gestartet


In Niedersachsen hat der Bau einer Gaspipeline begonnen. Das Ziel: Noch vor Weihnachten soll Flüssiggas von einer schwimmenden LNG-Plattform in Wilhelmshaven ins deutsche Netz geliefert werden.




www.ndr.de

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## khansaheeb

zartosht said:


> Thats the Norwegian consul (a professional diplomat) going full karen (_Káren?) _on some hotel receptionist
> 
> Her racist tirade included "I hate russians" and "Im scandanavian, im used to clean rooms!"


Seems like Russia has some denazification to do in Norway, sooner the better.

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## Primus

So. After some 160+ days of fighting, who is winning?


----------



## mulj

beside "war spectacle" observations it is pretty obvious.


----------



## Corax

aviator_fan said:


> I agree, US was defeated everywhere except Granada. That is why Afghanistan is much better place with 80% at starvation. And middle east (Iraq, Syria) are at their military strength and economic prosperity that the Israelis shiver in their pants when they go to sleep. That would have only happened if US lost and we know on this forum that they lost because a few 100 snipers over a decade picked off 4000 soldiers.
> 
> 
> Yes you believe that: Israel somehow is under threat when every day they are bolder in their actions in occupied territories, and hitting Iran through assassinations in-country. This never happened up until 3-4 years. I think its a good dream for you to feel good that Iran poses a direct threat to Isreal, but certainly is not how Israel acts on a daily basis. Unless you think this is all a trap that Iranians have cunningly set for Israel that will unfold after your and my lifetime (by which time all occupied territories will be emptied out) and every GCC country will be a partner to Israel (only Saudi Arabia needs to come around)
> 
> Hardly an endorsement of your Iran theory!



Your original argument was that the US invasion of Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein was done at the behest of the Zionist Israeli government to remove a major threat to the illegal state, because you Mericuns are effectively owned by the Zionist state, you do its bidding, every Mericun president sh1its his pants if he ever goes against the wishes of the Zionists, and the Israelis openly admit that they own Capitol Hill. But with Iraq effectively owned by the Iranians now, how has the major threat to Israel been removed? You should also ask yourself, why are the Israelis so scared of the Iranians now all of a sudden? Why the assassinations, the threats of strikes and nuking Iran? If Iran wasn't such a threat to the Zionist state, why are the Zionists so scared of them? But sure, the Mericuns have done a great job at removing one existential threat to Israel and replacing it with another. By the way, how come the mighty Mericuns let the Iranians bomb the sh1t out of their airbases in Iraq without being able to do anything? How come the Iranian missiles weren't intercepted? Why were the mighty Merucins so afraid of the Iranians selling drones to the Russians and threatening Iran with "dire consequences"?

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## ZeGerman

mulj said:


> beside "wat spectacle" observations it is pretty obvious.


Depends on what “winning” means.

Russia clearly aimed for more then Their excuse “protecting the donbass”. 

And Both militarily (donbass not fully taken, kherson is pressured) as economically (will sanctions continue even through winter?) this is not a done deal.

So ask again in 3-6 months….

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## Ahmadbhutta01

mulj said:


> beside "wat spectacle" observations it is pretty obvious.


Depends on what u call a victory , Russia lost 20 million ppl in WW2 yet won the war


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## mulj

ZeGerman said:


> Depends on what “winning” means.
> 
> Russia clearly aimed for more then Their excuse “protecting the donbass”.
> 
> And Both militarily (donbass not fully taken, kherson is pressured) as economically (will sanctions continue even through winter?) this is not a done deal.
> 
> So ask again in 3-6 months….


Sure, they redefined their goals and narrowed those, they will try to push to Odessa and with eventual success of that they will declare "victory", they are somehow on half way of it.



Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Depends on what u call a victory , Russia lost 20 million ppl in WW2 yet won the war


By my understanding, land locking of what remains of Ukraina and permanent crippling of UAF would be conditions for declaring victory.


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## Corax

I don't think there will ever be a permanent cessation of hostilities, not given the extent to which the Russians have captured Ukrainian territory, and the fact that it appears they intend to capture the Odessa region and effectively land-lock Ukraine. It will become another frozen conflict, and the West will continue to support the Ukrainians militarily. The Russians will need to continue low intensity strikes to keep the capability of the UAF in check, even if they stop their advance at some point, and the long-term objective of the Ukrainians will be to completely push the Russians back to their own borders. So even if there is some negotiated "peace", expect another potential conflict many years down the line. Think of other similar frozen conflicts like Israel/Palestine, Azerbaijan/Armenia/Nagorna Karabak, North/South Korea, Kashmir, etc.


----------



## mulj

Corax said:


> I don't think there will ever be a permanent cessation of hostilities, not given the extent to which the Russians have captured Ukrainian territory, and the fact that it appears they intend to capture the Odessa region and effectively land-lock Ukraine. It will become another frozen conflict, and the West will continue to support the Ukrainians militarily. The Russians will need to continue low intensity strikes to keep the capability of the UAF in check, even if they stop their advance at some point, and the long-term objective of the Ukrainians will be to completely push the Russians back to their own borders. So even if there is some negotiated "peace", expect another potential conflict many years down the line. Think of other similar frozen conflicts like Israel/Palestine, Azerbaijan/Armenia/Nagorna Karabak, North/South Korea, Kashmir, etc.


they have plenty of missiles to that once and if they make teritorial gains to keep UAF in check and bring them to the table. I do not see will and resources from Ukraina allies to commit them any means beside to keep them floating, in scenario you mentioned west should be really worried because russia will go in full proxy mode wherever they can.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556522608279126016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556522609910714368


----------



## NotSure

That Guy said:


> This is absolutely moronic if true. You don't start another offensive after taking territory, you consolidate.
> 
> This is why the Russians are facing such a high level insurgency in areas they've taken, and are suffering deep losses.
> 
> The Russian military and political systems are filled with idiots.


Sure, sure. Because YOU know about the level of insurgency there, the level of "deep losses" Russia has and what else.

It's soo good this forum have geniuses of such epic proportions like you, this is on F-16.net level.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556586012108800002

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## Viet

Huffal said:


> So. After some 160+ days of fighting, who is winning?


Putin
He is undisputed king of Russia.
He controls military, justice, parliament, executives, economy, people. And the rest. There is no opposition.
Anyone who has different opinion will land in one of numerous gulags.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556530643219189760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556542875986497538


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

mulj said:


> Sure, they redefined their goals and narrowed those, they will try to push to Odessa and with eventual success of that they will declare "victory", they are somehow on half way of it.
> 
> 
> By my understanding, land locking of what remains of Ukraina and permanent crippling of UAF would be conditions for declaring victory.


Landlocking of Ukraine will never be allowed , eventually it will come down to negotiation with Ukraine have to give up Donbass , landlocking Ukraine would mean a fight for Ukraine survival of existence and they will fight to death

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## alee92nawaz

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is murdering, raping, looting, torturing, their way through Ukraine. There are thousands of examples from the very beginning of this war. A barbaric nation that needs to be destroyed and remade in the image of the Germans and Japanese after WW2. Their crimes would make Nazi Germany proud.
> 
> In the early days of the war I felt bad for the Russians getting incinerated, then all the photos and videos of Russian crimes came pouring in, and my feelings completely changed. Russia is a terrorist state, a barbaric nation, that needs to be bulldozed. Just as Nazi Germany and the Empire of Japan before it.


Does this golden rule apply to Israel, US of A? Or when they commit war crimes, kill children, bomb entire villages and cities, is politics only?

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Putin
> He is undisputed king of Russia.
> He controls military, justice, parliament, executives, economy, people. And the rest. There is no opposition.
> Anyone who has different opinion will land in one of numerous gulags.



1. There is no opposition to Putin ? There is the Communist party of Russia which is the second-largest party there and is strongly opposed to a lot of Putin's policies but on the question of Ukraine it is with Putin's government. And we have seen USSR flags freely flying among the Russian soldiers in Ukraine.

2. In Ukraine OTOH, months ago Zelensky banned 11 opposition parties including putting at least one opposition leader under house arrest. Zelensky has also executed a few of his own people for "treason". Many Ukrainian civilians are being forcibly drafted into the military and those who complain after getting in are going to destinations unknown, to places much worse than gulags. Just a few among things.

So who is the dictator here ?

Lastly, to those who have posted to me I will write to them tomorrow.

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## Akritas

Viet said:


> Putin
> He is undisputed king of Russia.
> He controls military, justice, parliament, executives, economy, people. And the rest. There is no opposition.
> Anyone who has different opinion will land in one of numerous gulags.


or is dead from radioactive poison.


----------



## DF41

aviator_fan said:


> I agree, US was defeated everywhere except Granada.




You disrespect the Murica prowess at war and slaughter by innuendo Murica won only at Granada

Murica scored resounding victories at Panama and Nicaragua that you failed to recognise.

Victories in WW2 at Europe was 90% won by Stalin and Zhukov who took out 85% of Hitler military might leaving Murica to take on a few divisions of invalids at R&R at Normandy.

And China killed 2 million japs in China when China had barely any arms and relied on swords and spears






and suicide charges and Murica taking out 200,000 japs in Pacific war  
Details here





How difficult would it be for China to invade Taiwan? Peter Zeihan


The world have seen how west sanctions work on russia in ukrainian war. It's utterly useless,the russian ruble even rise to a new height in years. The world have seen the utter cowardness of the west in ukraine war too. The whole west hide behind the borderline of the ukraine and their...



defence.pk







And the way Murica shouted and trumpeted that they single handed won the war.

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> 1. There is no opposition to Putin ? There is the Communist party of Russia which is the second-largest party there and is strongly opposed to a lot of Putin's policies but on the question of Ukraine it is with Putin's government. And we have seen USSR flags freely flying among the Russian soldiers in Ukraine.
> 
> 2. In Ukraine OTOH, months ago Zelensky banned 11 opposition parties including putting at least one opposition leader under house arrest. Zelensky has also executed a few of his own people for "treason". Many Ukrainian civilians are being forcibly drafted into the military and those who complain after getting in are going to destinations unknown, to places much worse than gulags. Just a few among things.
> 
> So who is the dictator here ?
> 
> Lastly, to those who have posted to me I will write to them tomorrow.


Putin is Russia. He treats Russia like as personal car garage.
His loyal parties in parliament want him as “Pravitel”. In German language it means “Führer“. Actually Putin presidency will expire in 2024, but now extended to 2036. I won’t be surprised if his parliament will extend his Pravitel further to 2090.


----------



## mulj

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Landlocking of Ukraine will never be allowed , eventually it will come down to negotiation with Ukraine have to give up Donbass , landlocking Ukraine would mean a fight for Ukraine survival of existence and they will fight to death


I know it would be matter of life and death but what do you mean it willl not be allowed, by whom exactly?

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## jhungary

Huffal said:


> So. After some 160+ days of fighting, who is winning?


Tactically? No one. Not the Ukrainian, not the Russian.

For Russia, their goal, at least for now is to occupy the entire Donbas, they had not been able to do it. 

For Ukraine, their goal is to kick out Russia in all occupied territories. They had not been able to do it either.

Strategically, Russia had already lost. The ultimate goal of this war is to stop Ukraine from joining EU and NATO and stop NATO expansion and knock out Ukrainian government and install a Pro-Russian government, both of which are out of reach for Russia, in fact, Finland and Sweden have a very high chance on joining NATO and Ukraine for EU. As long as Ukraine exist as an independent country (ie Kyiv was not overrun) they are going to remain hostile to Russia, which mean Russia strategically gained a Hostile neighbour and 1200KM NATO border if and when Finland joined NATO. 

Not to mention Russia economy is shot to shit right now, it will take them at least 2 decades to recover, if it was ever possible. And it is impossible for Russian economy to recover as long as Western Sanction put in place, either the west withdraws Sanction or Russia have to wait until China overtook combine US and EU economy to be able to recover......

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Putin is Russia. He treats Russia like as personal car garage.
> His loyal parties in parliament want him as “Pravitel”. In German language it means “Führer“. Actually Putin presidency will expire in 2024, but now extended to 2036. I won’t be surprised if his parliament will extend his Pravitel further to 2090.



Are you saying that the Russian Communist party is a loyal of Putin ? As for his presidency I will say that this war will change Russia politically and in other ways, for the good of Russia.


----------



## jhungary

mulj said:


> I know it would be matter of life ajd that but what do you mean it willl not be allowed, by whom exactly?


It's virtually no chance for Russian to attack Odessa. 

When Russia lost Snake Island, that basically negate all the chances to launch a seaborne invasion to Odessa, and if you look at the map of Ukraine, the only way other than an amphibious assault is to get over the fork in Mykolaiv, and then travel some 200 miles toward Odessa over land. That included the heavily defended Southern command. Even if Russia manage to put enough man, it will take them years to get that far. 

On the other hand, as we speak, Ukrainian had the tempo in the south, they are the one counter attacking, it would be considering a blessing if Russia did not lose Kherson, let alone march north toward Mykolaiv.

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## mulj

jhungary said:


> It's virtually no chance for Russian to attack Odessa.
> 
> When Russia lost Snake Island, that basically negate all the chances to launch a seaborne invasion to Odessa, and if you look at the map of Ukraine, the only way other than an amphibious assault is to get over the fork in Mykolaiv, and then travel some 200 miles toward Odessa over land. That included the heavily defended Southern command. Even if Russia manage to put enough man, it will take them years to get that far.
> 
> On the other hand, as we speak, Ukrainian had the tempo in the south, they are the one counter attacking, it would be considering a blessing if Russia did not lose Kherson, let alone march north toward Mykolaiv.


Exactly but i do not see it heavily defended, not many settlements before and after Mykolaev, if russians manage to capture Mykolaev/Zaporozje region it is realistic to expect that Odessa will be next.
Regarding ukrainian counterattack on south i see them as moral booster and for propaganda purposes, nothing happened for 2 months now as was it announced to be major offensive for retakin Kherson.

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Tactically? No one. Not the Ukrainian, not the Russian.
> 
> For Russia, their goal, at least for now is to occupy the entire Donbas, they had not been able to do it.
> 
> For Ukraine, their goal is to kick out Russia in all occupied territories. They had not been able to do it either.
> 
> Strategically, Russia had already lost. The ultimate goal of this war is to stop Ukraine from joining EU and NATO and stop NATO expansion and knock out Ukrainian government and install a Pro-Russian government, both of which are out of reach for Russia, in fact, Finland and Sweden have a very high chance on joining NATO and Ukraine for EU. As long as Ukraine exist as an independent country (ie Kyiv was not overrun) they are going to remain hostile to Russia, which mean Russia strategically gained a Hostile neighbour and 1200KM NATO border if and when Finland joined NATO.
> 
> Not to mention Russia economy is shot to shit right now, it will take them at least 2 decades to recover, if it was ever possible. And it is impossible for Russian economy to recover as long as Western Sanction put in place, either the west withdraws Sanction or Russia have to wait until China overtook combine US and EU economy to be able to recover......




This has been a massive strategic loss for Russia. Their in a much worse position today than before the invasion. It’s going to take Russia decades to recover.

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## jhungary

mulj said:


> Exactly but i do not see it heavily defended, not many settlements before and after Mykolaev, if russians manage to capture Mykolaev/Zaporozje region it is realistic to expect that Odessa will be next.


This is Mykolaiv






First of all, this is a city in the level of Mariupol, but unlike Mariupol, the only way to get over Mykolaiv is the bridge you see in the NW. And that was covered by the entire west bank. 

For Russia to take Mykolaiv, they would have to launch an attack even greater in strength and more importantly, had to attack Mykolaiv straight on. They tried it once in the beginning when Ukraine was not at all up to their task to defend Mykolaiv, yet the Russian is beaten back. 

Yes, if Russia took Mykolaiv, then they will have a relatively easy road to Odessa, that is still not at all a cake walk. However, that's the key, because Ukraine WILL defend Mykolaiv tooth and nail more or less like they did with Mariupol, and even if Russia had enough men to try and take it, it will be with very heavy casualty. Which mean there is an open question whether or not Russia would have enough men power to continue had they taken Mykolaiv



F-22Raptor said:


> This has been a massive strategic loss for Russia. Their in a much worse position today than before the invasion. It’s going to take Russia decades to recover



Not sure they will ever recover. 

The west now know Putin cannot be trusted, that honey moon you saw where Putin and Co having their happy days is over. The west are going to move away from Russia, and if they did so, there are no market left for Russia...

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## mulj

We will see, topografic conditions of the city are obstacle to defenders as much as to attackers, hard to resupply and manouvre.


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## That Guy

NotSure said:


> Sure, sure. Because YOU know about the level of insurgency there, the level of "deep losses" Russia has and what else.
> 
> It's soo good this forum have geniuses of such epic proportions like you, this is on F-16.net level.


This isn't just my opinion, the numbers are from various sources, including OSINT, official, and think tank org sources.

You wanna be a clown, go be a clown elsewhere, instead of constantly picking fights you can't win.


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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Are you saying that the Russian Communist party is a loyal of Putin ? As for his presidency I will say that this war will change Russia politically and in other ways, for the good of Russia.


Facts: Russia is not a communist country. Russia communist party has zero influence in politics.
Russia has a mix of nationalist and facist ideology.
Putin is an ex KGB spy stationed in Dresden in Germany. He speaks German. Not surprisingly he favors the facist theorem. If you have friends in right wing extremists then well.


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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Facts: Russia is not a communist country. Russia communist party has zero influence in politics.
> Russia has a mix of nationalist and facist ideology.
> Putin is an ex KGB spy stationed in Dresden in Germany. He speaks German. Not surprisingly he favors the facist theorem. If you have friends in right wing extremists then well.



None of that is relevant to what I wrote.


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## Viet

jamahir said:


> None of that is relevant to what I wrote.


What did you write?
This war will change Russia politics? What change? Russia is always ruled by one man government. Putin is like by a zar. Russia is never a liberal country unlike most countries in Europe. There is rarely a peaceful change of power.


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## jhungary

mulj said:


> We will see, topografic conditions of the city are obstacle to defenders as much as to attackers, hard to resupply and manouvre.


Well, this is a moot point now.

Russians are 70km away from Mykolaiv and is being attacked by the Ukrainian, it will take a very serious change of fortune to have it reversed.

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## DF41

The NATO military officials were on the way back from meeting about increasing aids in Ukraine when the Russians got hold of this intelligence and laid an ambush, wiping out the whole convoy.... 👇👇





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3219490114929472

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## Primus

DF41 said:


> The NATO military officials were on the way back from meeting about increasing aids in Ukraine when the Russians got hold of this intelligence and laid an ambush, wiping out the whole convoy.... 👇👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3219490114929472


Bro just literally shared game footage of abrams being destroyed 💀💀💀

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## DF41

Huffal said:


> Bro just literally shared game footage of abrams being destroyed 💀💀💀


 Look realistic enough But I was wondering what clear footage compared to normally blurry footage



Good for a laugh I guess

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556684474427006978
Another weapons package

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## Viet

Panzerhaubitze 2000
The Mercedes among artillery

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556690134858432513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556690139144982529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556690142932471809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556690370880327680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556691360136282114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556692607090180096

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556693252983721987

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556693725929250817

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## NotSure

That Guy said:


> This isn't just my opinion, the numbers are from various sources, including OSINT, official, and think tank org sources.
> 
> You wanna be a clown, go be a clown elsewhere, instead of constantly picking fights you can't win.


Ah, the various sources and osint. And i bet these "various sources" are independent, trustworthy and not ukropian/nato propaganda at all.

Or in other words: You have no clue, what you are talking about. Nor the honest interest.


That Guy said:


> You wanna be a clown, go be a clown elsewhere, instead of constantly picking fights you can't win.


Being a clown is your angloid speciality. You even have a corrupt clown as the "president" of ukraine aka the nato sock puppet of kiev. Maybe he is even the Ghost of Kiev himself after all. 

And yeah, you won this fight, clearly. In the same way Kiev is winning this war or the so called offensive is going to kick out all russians out of Ukraine.

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556690134858432513
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556690139144982529
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556690142932471809
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556690370880327680
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556691360136282114
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556692607090180096



This is so laughable and pathetic, all of a sudden US "intelligence" (a contradiction in terms) now thinks there's 70-80,000 dead Russians when only a few weeks ago they estimated only 15,000?! Seems to me the Mericuns are talking out of where the sun don't shine, just like they did with Iraqi WMDs, remember that?

CIA Director estimates 15,000 Russians killed in Ukraine

Furthermore, the Russians started the campaign with around 150,000 combat troops at the most, so if around half have been killed, why haven't the Ukrainians defeated then yet?! More to the point, how come the CIA aren't given estimates of Ukrainian dead?!  according to a few weeks ago, the CIA director estimated a similar number of Ukrainians dead, so does that mean 70-80,000 Uki Nazis killed too?!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556708663825670144

US confirms it has sent AGM-88 HARMS capable of firing from Ukrainian aircraft



Corax said:


> This is so laughable and pathetic, all of a sudden US "intelligence" (a contradiction in terms) now thinks there's 70-80,000 dead Russians when only a few weeks ago they estimated only 15,000?! Seems to me the Mericuns are talking out of where the sun don't shine, just like they did with Iraqi WMDs, remember that?
> 
> CIA Director estimates 15,000 Russians killed in Ukraine
> 
> Furthermore, the Russians started the campaign with around 150,000 combat troops at the most, so if around half have been killed, why haven't the Ukrainians defeated then yet?! More to the point, how come the CIA aren't given estimates of Ukrainian dead?!  according to a few weeks ago, the CIA director estimated a similar number of Ukrainians dead, so does that mean 70-80,000 Uki Nazis killed too?!



It’s 70K -80K dead and wounded combined. 

The CIA director said 15K dead and 45K wounded. That’s 60K total. He was being very conservative.

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## The SC



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556696165760081926


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## Ali_Baba

A CRACK unit of Russian special forces suffered huge loses after trying and failing to destroy HIMARS in Ukraine.​








Putin's SAS unit suffers HUGE losses in failed bid to destroy HIMARs


A CRACK unit of Russian special forces suffered huge loses after trying and failing to destroy HIMARS in Ukraine.




www.express.co.uk


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## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556696165760081926




Now we know why we’re seeing an uptick in destroyed Russian air defenses

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556708663825670144
> 
> US confirms it has sent AGM-88 HARMS capable of firing from Ukrainian aircraft
> 
> 
> 
> It’s 70K -80K dead and wounded combined.
> 
> The CIA director said 15K dead and 45K wounded. That’s 60K total. He was being very conservative.



If he's being conservative about Russian losses, you can bet your bottom dollar the losses suffered by Ukraine are far higher than the Russians.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553741172006338562

Russian losses now over 5,100

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## K_Bin_W

Corax said:


> This is so laughable and pathetic, all of a sudden US "intelligence" (a contradiction in terms) now thinks there's 70-80,000 dead Russians when only a few weeks ago they estimated only 15,000?! Seems to me the Mericuns are talking out of where the sun don't shine, just like they did with Iraqi WMDs, remember that?
> 
> CIA Director estimates 15,000 Russians killed in Ukraine
> 
> Furthermore, the Russians started the campaign with around 150,000 combat troops at the most, so if around half have been killed, why haven't the Ukrainians defeated then yet?! More to the point, how come the CIA aren't given estimates of Ukrainian dead?!  according to a few weeks ago, the CIA director estimated a similar number of Ukrainians dead, so does that mean 70-80,000 Uki Nazis killed too?!



Take anything that comes from the west, particularly Amreeka, and flush it down the drain... Only then you will get to the ground realities.

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> If he's being conservative about Russian losses, you can bet your bottom dollar the losses suffered by Ukraine are far higher than the Russians.



Director Burns said it was slightly less

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## Ahmadbhutta01

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556530643219189760





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556530643219189760
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556542875986497538


Are u on o


F-22Raptor said:


> This has been a massive strategic loss for Russia. Their in a much worse position today than before the invasion. It’s going to take Russia decades to recover.


Wow a post without a mention of himmars , must be those rare moment of being sober

The casualties from Russia and Ukraine combined including civilians may be around half a million now , only Mariupol had 20-30k civilians casualties . The real number has to be pretty high


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## Ahmadbhutta01

Russia Ukraine conflict
Russian casualties in Ukraine up to 80,000: Pentagon

senior Pentagon official estimated Monday that as many as 80,000 Russians have been killed or wounded in Ukraine since the war began in late February

“The Russians have probably taken 70 or 80,000 casualties in less than six months,” Under Secretary of Defense Colin Kahl said.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> This is Mykolaiv
> 
> View attachment 868920
> 
> 
> First of all, this is a city in the level of Mariupol, but unlike Mariupol, the only way to get over Mykolaiv is the bridge you see in the NW. And that was covered by the entire west bank.
> 
> For Russia to take Mykolaiv, they would have to launch an attack even greater in strength and more importantly, had to attack Mykolaiv straight on. They tried it once in the beginning when Ukraine was not at all up to their task to defend Mykolaiv, yet the Russian is beaten back.
> 
> Yes, if Russia took Mykolaiv, then they will have a relatively easy road to Odessa, that is still not at all a cake walk. However, that's the key, because Ukraine WILL defend Mykolaiv tooth and nail more or less like they did with Mariupol, and even if Russia had enough men to try and take it, it will be with very heavy casualty. Which mean there is an open question whether or not Russia would have enough men power to continue had they taken Mykolaiv
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure they will ever recover.
> 
> The west now know Putin cannot be trusted, that honey moon you saw where Putin and Co having their happy days is over. The west are going to move away from Russia, and if they did so, there are no market left for Russia...


well one way to enter the city is to cover the southern part with heavy artillery fire , and then send several engineering team to put on some makeshift bridge there . an engineering team can erect those bridges very fast. or you can pass the river in another place and enter the city from somewhere else



Ali_Baba said:


> A CRACK unit of Russian special forces suffered huge loses after trying and failing to destroy HIMARS in Ukraine.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's SAS unit suffers HUGE losses in failed bid to destroy HIMARs
> 
> 
> A CRACK unit of Russian special forces suffered huge loses after trying and failing to destroy HIMARS in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk


again the invincible superstar Himras



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556708663825670144
> 
> US confirms it has sent AGM-88 HARMS capable of firing from Ukrainian aircraft


didn't knew the missile is compatible with eastern airplanes


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556753093601234945
HIMARS strike in Melitopol

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## NotSure

Another not M777 for our "military guy":

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556713887340322818

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## aviator_fan

Corax said:


> Your original argument was that the US invasion of Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein was done at the behest of the Zionist Israeli government to remove a major threat to the illegal state, because you Mericuns are effectively owned by the Zionist state, you do its bidding, every Mericun president sh1its his pants if he ever goes against the wishes of the Zionists, and the Israelis openly admit that they own Capitol Hill. But with Iraq effectively owned by the Iranians now, how has the major threat to Israel been removed? You should also ask yourself, why are the Israelis so scared of the Iranians now all of a sudden? Why the assassinations, the threats of strikes and nuking Iran? If Iran wasn't such a threat to the Zionist state, why are the Zionists so scared of them? But sure, the Mericuns have done a great job at removing one existential threat to Israel and replacing it with another. By the way, how come the mighty Mericuns let the Iranians bomb the sh1t out of their airbases in Iraq without being able to do anything? How come the Iranian missiles weren't intercepted? Why were the mighty Merucins so afraid of the Iranians selling drones to the Russians and threatening Iran with "dire consequences"?


Iranians have excelled at murder in middle east (Yemen, Syria). If the Israelis were shivering in their pants , one would overlook it. But Iranians with their love of Indians, instigating in Syria/Yemen have no sympathy from me. You are more than welcome to be their spokeperson and by all means sell all the drones. But Israelis (unfortunately) have now made a pact with the GCC. And that does not bode well for Iran long-term.

Once you can show Zionists are scared, I will gladly be convinced. But till then I see the Isarelis going at full steam de-populating Palestine of Arabs and expanding its apartheid. Hardly the action of somebody thats intimidated by Iran.

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## Corax

aviator_fan said:


> Iranians have excelled at murder in middle east (Yemen, Syria). If the Israelis were shivering in their pants , one would overlook it. But Iranians with their love of Indians, instigating in Syria/Yemen have no sympathy from me. You are more than welcome to be their spokeperson and by all means sell all the drones. But Israelis (unfortunately) have now made a pact with the GCC. And that does not bode well for Iran long-term.
> 
> Once you can show Zionists are scared, I will gladly be convinced. But till then I see the Isarelis going at full steam de-populating Palestine of Arabs and expanding its apartheid. Hardly the action of somebody thats intimidated by Iran.



So Iranians have excelled at murder in the middle East?! This coming from a Zionist supporting Murican?! lol I couldn't give a flying fcuk about the Iranians, but my original point stands, the US invasion of Iraq was a strategic failure if its main objective was to remove a threat to the Zionist state. Glad to see the Muricans finally admitting they're supporting a neo-Nazi Zionist state, as well as the Ukranian Nazis.

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## Oldman1

Corax said:


> So Iranians have excelled at murder in the middle East?! This coming from a Zionist supporting Murican?! lol I couldn't give a flying fcuk about the Iranians, but my original point stands, the US invasion of Iraq was a strategic failure if its main objective was to remove a threat to the Zionist state. Glad to see the Muricans finally admitting they're supporting a neo-Nazi Zionist state, as well as the Ukranian Nazis.


Guess Israel is Russia's next target then.


----------



## Soldier35

The Ukrainian army began to use US AGM-88 HARM anti-radar missiles. The remains of one of the missiles were found at the positions of Russian troops in the Donbass. The missile entered service in 1983 and is capable of targeting high-frequency radars even if they turn off or change frequencies. The length of the rocket is about 4 meters, the diameter is 250 millimeters. With such dimensions, the EPR of the rocket is not small, therefore, they should be easily detected by air defense systems. The missile is designed to be launched only from aircraft, perhaps in Ukraine, handicraft ground installations were created for launching.






The calculation of the Osa-AKM air defense system, the Russian marine brigade of the Pacific Fleet, showed its combat work at night in Ukraine. Several launches of 9M33M3 missiles were carried out against the detected targets. On the combat account of the calculation of the air defense system, there are already 115 destroyed air targets.






Footage of the destruction of a Ukrainian tank by a Russian precision-guided projectile "Krasnopol". The defeat of the tank was carried out in the area of the village of Peski.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556541878920945665

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## DF41

Huffal said:


> Bro just literally shared game footage of abrams being destroyed 💀💀💀




Which at least gave us all some laughs.

And not truly a lie although I had some suspicious how the Ruskies be positioned so widely and fired so well.

Different from the blatant lies of NED and Murica team of trolls and self proclaimed truth seekers with their garbage of outright lies and deceits and filth only they can conjured.

And not be funny as well


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556541878920945665


More propaganda than substance

Why should Ukraine army bombard own nuclear power plant?
Previously Putin propaganda troop also accuses Kiew to bombard own villages, own prison.
Who like Putin, Lavrov, Peskow, Shogui, Dimitri as liars exposed nobody believes their words anymore.

Meanwhile the US legislation prepares a bill to classify Russia as terror state.

The EU considers a wide ranging visa ban for all Russians.


----------



## SalarHaqq

WJC urges Ukrainian Orthodox Church leader to act against glorification of Nazi soldiers​22 Aug 2013







*The Ukrainian Orthodox Church should work to stop clergy from participating in neo-Nazi events in Ukraine, the World Jewish Congress said today in a letter to the head of the church. WJC President Ronald S. Lauder asked Patriarch Filaret in a letter to speak out against events glorifying the Nazis. Lauder referred to a recent ceremony near Lviv marking the 70th anniversary of the creation of the Galician division of the Waffen SS, in which Ukrainians fought on the side of Nazi Germany.*






The WJC president wrote: “I was horrified to see photographs […] of young Ukrainians wearing the dreaded SS uniform with swastikas clearly visible on their helmets as they carried the caskets of members of this Nazi unit, lowered them into their new graves, and fired gun salutes in their honor. I was especially troubled by the participation in this ceremony of a priest of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church that appeared to give a religious legitimacy to the rehabilitation of the SS.”
In late July, Ukrainians wearing SS uniforms were photographed trudging through trenches and fire rifles in a reconstruction of a key battle against the Soviets during World War II. An Orthodox priest led a ceremony for fallen soldiers of the Nazi unit, sprinkling his blessing over several men sporting swastikas who lowered a coffin in a ritual reburial.

In his letter, Lauder expressed hope that Filaret would use his “moral authority to prevent any further rehabilitation of Nazism or the SS, and that you will call on the clergy of your Church not to participate in any future ceremonies or events that glorify or legitimize a uniform that epitomizes the evil of genocide.”






Lauder also mentioned that Oleg Pankevich, a lawmaker for the extreme-right Svoboda party, took part in the reburial ceremony.
“As you know, leaders of Svoboda, like their counterparts in Jobbik in Hungary and Golden Dawn in Greece, frequently engage in anti-Semitic rhetoric that has ominous implications,” Lauder wrote the church leader.

He said that the World Jewish Congress would hold a meeting of its Executive Committee in Kiev next year and invited Patriarch Filaret to attend the gathering.


*Full text of the letter of Ronald S. Lauder to Patriarch Filaret*

Your Excellency:

I vividly recall the evening you and other Ukrainian religious leaders spent at my home in April of 2012. I also know from Rabbi Yaakov Bleich of your longstanding friendship with him and with the Jewish community. I greatly admire both your commitment to strengthening the bonds among Ukrainians of different faiths your opposition over the years to anti-Semitism and other forms of racial and religious prejudice.

It is in this spirit I am writing to you today to express the deep concerns of Jews throughout the world at the recent glorification of the Ukrainian Halychyna (Galician) Waffen-SS division during a reburial ceremony in the village of Gologory in Western Ukraine on July 28. I was horrified to see photographs, some of which I enclose with this letter, of young Ukrainians wearing the dreaded SS uniform with swastikas clearly visible on their helmets as they carried the caskets of members of this Nazi unit, lowered them into their new graves, and fired gun salutes in their honor. I was especially troubled by the participation in this ceremony of a priest of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church that appeared to give a religious legitimacy to the rehabilitation of the SS.

As you know, men and women wearing the uniforms of the SS and the Waffen-SS committed unspeakable atrocities against Jews and members of other religious and ethnic groups during World War II. As you so wisely and sensitively said in your remarks following your visit to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in May of 2012, while the inhumane Holocaust atrocities are unlikely to be repeated in the future, “the evil can happen in another form if people are indifferent to its emergence at the beginning.”

We are also deeply troubled by the fact that Oleg Pankevich, a deputy from the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party, also took part in the Gologory reburial ceremony. As you know, leaders of Svoboda, like their counterparts in Jobbik in Hungary and Golden Dawn in Greece, frequently engage in anti-Semitic rhetoric that has ominous implications. 

Urging Ukrainians to join the Halychyna SS division in 1943, Volodymyr Kubiyovych, the head of the Ukrainian Central Committee, declared that:

"The long-awaited moment has arrived when the Ukrainian people again have the opportunity to come out with guns to give battle with its most grievous foe -- Muscovite-Jewish Bolshevism. The Fuehrer of the Great German Reich has agreed to the formation of a separate Ukrainian volunteer military unit under the name SS Riflemen's Division “Halychyna” ... You must stand shoulder to shoulder with the unbeatable German army and destroy, once and for all, the Jewish-Bolshevist monster.”






In this context, the frequent references by Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnibok to a “Moscow-Jewish mafia” take on a sinister significance.

I hope that you will your unique moral authority to prevent any further rehabilitation of Nazism or the SS, and that you will call on the clergy of your Church not to participate in any future ceremonies or events that glorify or legitimize a uniform that epitomizes the evil of genocide.

I hope to have the opportunity to meet with you again soon. The World Jewish Congress, which represents more than 100 Jewish communities throughout the world, is planning to hold a meeting of our Executive in Kiev in 2014, and it will be our privilege to have you with us as our honored guest on that occasion.

As we approach the most sacred time of the Jewish calendar, allow me to extend my best wishes to you and all the members of your Church.

Respectfully yours,

Ronald S. Lauder









WJC urges Ukrainian Orthodox Church leader to act against glorification of Nazi soldiers - World Jewish Congress


Ronald S. Lauder said he was horrified to see photographs of Ukrainians wearing SS uniforms and swastikas on their helmets at a ceremony honoring World War II Nazi fighters.




www.worldjewishcongress.org

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## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Bro just literally shared game footage of abrams being destroyed 💀💀💀



Think I have seen better quality ARMA3 footage...




Hack-Hook said:


> well one way to enter the city is to cover the southern part with heavy artillery fire , and then send several engineering team to put on some makeshift bridge there . an engineering team can erect those bridges very fast. or you can pass the river in another place and enter the city from somewhere else


If you do that, then you fixed your artillery in the south, which mean the Ukrainian only need to look at 1 direction to find your artillery, instead of 4. They have drone and HIMARS which can pre-deploy outside Russian Artillery range and engage them when they find them.

And no, Engineering bridge cannot deploy very fast, a ready to use bridge have to take 2 hours to deploy, the same analogy applies, there are only a few crossings you can do, I am pretty sure Ukraine have all the fork and crossing covered. And you will eat HIMARS missile if you try to erect that bridge.

Again, this is all moot point. First of all, there are no way Russia can pull this out unless they have air superiority, this is not Mariupol or Sieverodonetsk, where Russia is the one surrounding the Ukrainian, if Russia really go attack Mykolaiv, Russia will be surrounded by 3 sides by the Ukrainian, that's the reason the Russian had plan to take Kryvyi Rih Oblast, that way they can flank Mykolaiv, but still you are looking at 2 sides + a new front. Plus, right now it is the Ukrainian on the offensive in the South, so this is nothing, but a dream talks. Literally, Russian need to beat the Ukrainian Counter Offensive, then occupy Kryvyi Rih oblast before they can think about trying on Mykolaiv again. That objective, even if Russia is able to pull out, is years not months away.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556531843981352960


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556522608279126016
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556522609910714368




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556950646334554112

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556589699048919040

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556587572444516354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556537778766487552

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## Viet

The US is generous. Another aid package coming.

More money: 5.5 billion dollars
More weapons, ammo, Himars, Nasams, Javelin, armor medicine transporters 









USA: Weitere Milliardenhilfe und riesiges Rüstungspaket für Ukraine


Die USA unterstützen die Ukraine seit dem russischen Überfall in großem Umfang. Nun sagt die US-Regierung Kiew weitere Militärhilfen zu. Das Pentagon gibt Schätzungen zu Opferzahlen Russlands bekannt.




www.tagesschau.de

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556908037356589056

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556875931779846146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556662812772024320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556959310739021825


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556713125424013312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556966002566791168

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556909088314982403

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Viet said:


> The US is generous. Another aid package coming.
> 
> More money: 5.5 billion dollars
> More weapons, ammo, Himars, Nasams, Javelin, armor medicine transporters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA: Weitere Milliardenhilfe und riesiges Rüstungspaket für Ukraine
> 
> 
> Die USA unterstützen die Ukraine seit dem russischen Überfall in großem Umfang. Nun sagt die US-Regierung Kiew weitere Militärhilfen zu. Das Pentagon gibt Schätzungen zu Opferzahlen Russlands bekannt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de


US be like : The war must go on , the war must go on ........


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556987619984146432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556988353123426307

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556986951487594498

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556987921965654016

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556986382689738752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556988904368214018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556990248076427264
That’s a huge strike. ATACMS?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557004972650385409

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## Viet

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> US be like : The war must go on , the war must go on ........


Putin wants war. He gets it. Can’t blame on the Jews, Nazi or anyone eise.

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## The SC




----------



## Viet

Ukraine buys 200 Kirpi from Turkey. The first 50 pieces are delivered.









Ukraine-Liveblog: Selenskyj nimmt am G-20-Gipfel virtuell teil


Ukraine: Russisches Munitionsdepot in Cherson bei Angriff getroffen +++ Kiew: Russland muss an Verhandlungstisch gezwungen werden +++ Nordkorea: Haben keine Artilleriemunition an Russland geliefert +++ alle Entwicklungen im Liveblog.




m.faz.net

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557004972650385409



Just like "an ammunation exploded on the Moskva everything is fine and under control". LMAO.

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556986382689738752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556988904368214018
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556990248076427264
> That’s a huge strike. ATACMS?


Cant wait till they flatten sebastopol.

Russians thought they could just crush ukraine state and people as they wished…..well now their karma is coming back like a boomerang 🪃

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## Ali_Baba

Smoke billows up from a Russian military airbase 130 miles from Ukrainian frontline after 'multiple' blasts​








Mushroom cloud seen rising at Russian military airbase in Crimea


As many as 15 distinct explosions were reported by eyewitnesses, according to various sources, which resulted in large plumes of smoke snaking from the base in Novofedorivka




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Explosions at Saky airbase in Crimea send plumes of smoke into sky​


----------



## mulj

Viet said:


> Ukraine buys 200 Kirpi from Turkey. The first 50 pieces are delivered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Liveblog: Selenskyj nimmt am G-20-Gipfel virtuell teil
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Russisches Munitionsdepot in Cherson bei Angriff getroffen +++ Kiew: Russland muss an Verhandlungstisch gezwungen werden +++ Nordkorea: Haben keine Artilleriemunition an Russland geliefert +++ alle Entwicklungen im Liveblog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.faz.net


Those are donated from TAF inventory. Previous version of it, amyway most welcomed move as it is probably better then what they habe in invemtory.


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556909088314982403


It seems Ukraine received super long range artillery. If I was Putin I would not go swimming in Crimea.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557025471178702849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557031574746669058

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## ZeGerman

Himars are not a wonderweapon to win a war by itself.

But Himars combined with USA sat. Intel, combined with no russian air dominance, and their shoot and scoot ability make them a huge headache for the russians. Going mostly uncontested and hitting russia where it hurts..almost at will…

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557004712813240320


----------



## Corax

Goes to show how vulnerable air bases are to attack. I often wonder why airbases don't have warship like levels of layered air defence, i.e. long range SAMs, medium range, RAM type short range and CIWS.

My guess would be the Ukis used their Neptune AShM for land attack, supported by US intel.


----------



## F-22Raptor

The Russians would really be in trouble if the US military was involved. Every one of their air bases would be toast. The US launched 500 cruise missiles on Day 1 of Gulf War 2.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

That's a big blow to Russia , it will only make things worse for Ukraine , we might see foab (father of all bombs) non nuclear bombs or even tactical nukes in near future



Viet said:


> It seems Ukraine received super long range artillery. If I was Putin I would not go swimming in Crimea.


May be a longer range himmars?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557077182110998528

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## MeFishToo

Check the first clip. Hard to believe it was an accident

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557078008778919937
Many Russian aircraft were likely annihilated


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians would really be in trouble if the US military was involved. Every one of their air bases would be toast. The US launched 500 cruise missiles on Day 1 of Gulf War 2.


Hooray its the 17th post that f22 raptor made, saying the exact same thing 👏

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## F-22Raptor

Huffal said:


> Hooray its the 17th post that f22 raptor made, saying the exact same thing 👏



Your tears are delicious

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557027629298880513


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Your tears are delicious


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557084257981550596

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## F-22Raptor



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## Ali_Baba

War has come to Crimea - now where have i heard that before ?!..

Looks like Ukraine is getting all the ground work ready for a final assualt to liberate Kherson .. in the case, denying Russia the ability to use that airbase for some time until it is repaired and aviation assets replaced.

Good luck Ukraine!

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## Wood

Back in May, Ukraine's Head of Military Intelligence predicted that war will turn tide in the second half of August. We will see what happens now


----------



## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555899176617140226
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555884295193038848
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555901587121389571
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555835834275872769
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555511873566494721
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555250907029286912


Azov is still around? 

By the way,the last video isn't funny. It's pathetic what some people try to do for propaganda reasons.

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## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557094165200125953

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## Viet

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> That's a big blow to Russia , it will only make things worse for Ukraine , we might see foab (father of all bombs) non nuclear bombs or even tactical nukes in near future
> 
> 
> May be a longer range himmars?


A big blow to Putin. The Russians say there was ammo detonating without external factor, no attack. However that is not credible. There are 12 detonations within 1 minute. Some detonation clouds are hundreds meter apart, so there are some possibilities from what I read from German military media.

- Ukraine using own made land attack missiles or ballistic missiles Hrim-2, Toschka, Sapsan
- modified anti ship missile Neptun
-US made Himars


----------



## NotSure

Look at our complete degenerated, mentally ill green polit-apparatschiks: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...-Beim-Muelltrennen-immer-an-Putin-denken.html


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

Footage has emerged from Novofedorivka showing a completely destroyed Russian Su-24 https://t.co/D4U6V9B2zO

Does Russian airforce not have jdam 2000lb like bombs in their arsenal the kind usa use that cause huge explosions


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557084619832434688


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557094165200125953





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557039102586920962


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557084257981550596





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556979762983223303


----------



## Corax

My guess would be it's an extended range land attack variant of the Neptune AShM the Ukis have been working on.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557056486634823682

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557051072555909121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557015584235208715


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557003083485532161

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557110260518764547

The Russian base is obliterated.

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## The SC



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557096624484220931

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557089084446838785

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557110260518764547
> 
> The Russian base is obliterated.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557039879904796674
Cry me a river


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557023687144099840


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557107103961055233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556979762983223303

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557131497005617174


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557107103961055233
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556979762983223303


Source: another twitter account.
I thought the story was that russia was at the center of Bahkmut a couple of days ago. Notice how those pro-russian sources claim russia conquered everything between the actual russian lines and where ever a russian recon unit is ambushed by ukrainian forces?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557131497005617174





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557123642756136962

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## gambit

aviator_fan said:


> I agree, US was defeated everywhere except Granada. That is why Afghanistan is much better place with 80% at starvation.


Afghanistan is paradise compare to the US.









‘They beat girls just for smiling’: life in Afghanistan one year after the Taliban’s return


Despite their promises of peace and stability, the country is on its knees, and its people are desperate




www.theguardian.com





“Another time *they beat girls just for smiling* and talking too loud. It’s a natural thing to chat about dresses you are buying and things,” she said.”​
What manly men, they are. Molest little boys and beat little girls. No wonder they 'defeated' the US.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557103393516228609

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557103393516228609



Posting the same video multiple times won't make it as 7x M777 destroyed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557080196011941889

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557103393516228609




Thats old footage from a month ago.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557054588485771265


----------



## gambit

F-22Raptor said:


> Your tears are delicious


Am beginning to think our Civil Air Patrol guys can take on the VKS.

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## F-22Raptor

gambit said:


> Am beginning to think our Civil Air Patrol guys can take on the VKS.



Don't think they've even flown over Ukrainian controlled territory since mid May. They've mostly been relegated to firing dumb munitions from Russian territory that rarely strike their intended targets. 

Their performance has been worse than the Army. That says something.

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## jhungary

93rd Separated Mechanised Brigade retook Mazanivka from the Russian and Separatist, South of Izyum


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556728774233915394
Soldier from the 93rd Brigade Riding thru Mazanikva

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## Gomig-21

The SC said:


>



That man made a lot of good points. He was right in his prediction back in May and now is making another bold one for August. Let's see if he scores on this one too.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557138728354807808

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Posting the same video multiple times won't make it as 7x M777 destroyed.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557080196011941889



Preach that to your buddy @F-22Raptor who is spamming the forum with that explosion in Cremia .

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Missile rain on Nikolayev region, Ukraine tonight


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557145876941897729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557167911281860608


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557208648681766912

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## SLY

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557100849268137984



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557124568678105089

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## Viet

Dmitry Peskov, the kremlin spokesman says Turkey opening of Bayraktar manufacturing plant will prolong the suffering of Ukrainians.

Hey hey russian artillery will ease the suffering, not ukraine drones.

He is 1A clown.







Image: AP


----------



## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> Dmitry Peskov, the kremlin spokesman says Turkey opening of Bayraktar manufacturing plant will prolong the suffering of Ukrainians.
> 
> Hey hey russian artillery will ease the suffering, not ukraine drones.
> 
> He is 1A clown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image: AP


Their argument is basically:

“But your honour, if my rape victim just did not resist i would not have to be that heavyhanded”

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Their argument is basically:
> 
> “But your honour, if my rape victim just did not resist i would not have to be that heavyhanded”


Yes that’s the logic of a hooligan and rapist. Putin, his stooges including many leftists, rightists. extremists here live in their delusional world. They write open letters urging the governments: stop delivering help and weapons to Ukraine because that will prolong the war.

Meanwhile the EU will impose a total coal embargo on Russia starting tomorrow. That will cost Putin 8 billion euros per year. The coal will come from other sources including from Indonesia instead.
@Indos









Übergangsfrist endet: EU darf keine Kohle aus Russland mehr beziehen - Ukraine-Krieg


Übergangsfrist endet: EU darf keine Kohle aus Russland mehr beziehen - Ukraine-Krieg - DIE RHEINPFALZ




www.rheinpfalz.de

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## RescueRanger

Olenvika Prison camp had a special guest after it was burnt to a crisp following a HIMARS strike by Ukraine:










Yes that is non other than former US Hollywood movie star and current Russian citizen Steven Segal.

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Olenvika Prison camp had a special guest after it was burnt to a crisp following a HIMARS strike by Ukraine:
> 
> View attachment 869369
> 
> View attachment 869370
> 
> 
> Yes that is non other than former US Hollywood movie star and current Russian citizen Steven Segal.


Wouldn't call Steven Segal a movie star......He mostly appear in direct to video and cheesy 90s action B-movie. 

Plus, that strike does not looks like a missile strike to me. Done enough DA to know the different between a missile strike and an artillery strike.

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## ZeGerman

RescueRanger said:


> Olenvika Prison camp had a special guest after it was burnt to a crisp following a HIMARS strike by Ukraine:
> 
> View attachment 869369
> 
> View attachment 869370
> 
> 
> Yes that is non other than former US Hollywood movie star and current Russian citizen Steven Segal.


Ah yes another usefull conspiracy nut tool for russia









Russian disinformation finds fertile ground in the West - Nature Human Behaviour


Russian disinformation exploits social problems in foreign states to undermine peopleâ€™s trust and breed conspiracy theories. Tackling it is difficult but feasible.




www.nature.com

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> Wouldn't call Steven Segal a movie star......He mostly appear in direct to video and cheesy 90s action B-movie.
> 
> Plus, that strike does not looks like a missile strike to me. Done enough DA to know the different between a missile strike and an artillery strike.


I don't know, I liked the one where is a Navy Seal Chef...


----------



## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> I don't know, I liked the one where is a Navy Seal Chef...


Under siege

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## Vergennes

Russians are such a bunch of liars @F-22Raptor @Hassan Al-Somal 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557107882742644736

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## Viet

All intimidations by Moscow not working
The US okaying Sweden, Finland to join the NATO.
The entire East Sea will become internal NATO waters.









Biden signs documents of U.S. support for Sweden, Finland to join NATO


U.S. President Joe Biden on Tuesday signed documents endorsing Finland and Sweden's accession to NATO, the most significant expansion of the military alliance since the 1990s as it responds to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.




www.reuters.com


----------



## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> Russians are such a bunch of liars @F-22Raptor @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557107882742644736


Well clearly it is still “fit for flight” according to russian standards. 

That is also why i never travel aeroflot

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> I don't know, I liked the one where is a Navy Seal Chef...


You like that because that movie has a naked playboy bunny jumping out of a birthday cake lol.......Most people watch that movie because of that...



ZeGerman said:


> Ah yes another usefull conspiracy nut tool for russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian disinformation finds fertile ground in the West - Nature Human Behaviour
> 
> 
> Russian disinformation exploits social problems in foreign states to undermine peopleâ€™s trust and breed conspiracy theories. Tackling it is difficult but feasible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nature.com


Kind of expecting Russel Brand to join him......

Used to love that dude comedy but he just went nuts......

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> You like that because that movie has a naked playboy bunny jumping out of a birthday cake lol.......Most people watch that movie because of that...


Ayo what? When tf was that in the movie? 🗿


----------



## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Ayo what? When tf was that in the movie? 🗿


dude, did you watch the Airplane version?






Don't watch after 0:37 or don't watch at all, if you don't want to see nudity.









Erika Eleniak - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





By the way, that scene was done because of Eleniak, she was a playmate in 89' (the same as she was introduced in under siege) she wore a sailor outfit when she shoots for playboy. Now, she is wearing a Naval Aviator Jacket (and nothing else) in this scene......go figure.

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> dude, did you watch the Airplane version?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't watch after 0:37 or don't watch at all, if you don't want to see nudity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erika Eleniak - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, that scene was done because of Eleniak, she was a playmate in 89' (the same as she was introduced in under siege) she wore a sailor outfit when she shoots for playboy. Now, she is wearing a Naval Aviator Jacket (and nothing else) in this scene......go figure.


Vid is age restricted, but i have watched airplane. It said it was a 12A so i was like, its gonna be a nice funny movie. I forgot it was the 80s when this film was made. Why did you have to remind me


----------



## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Vid is age restricted, but i have watched airplane. It said it was a 12A so i was like, its gonna be a nice funny movie. I forgot it was the 80s when this film was made. Why did you have to remind me


This is the PG version, after she had stripped






And you forgot the number 1 rules on Steven Segal. It's never going to be a nice funny movie with Steven Segal.............and this movie introduced a lot of 90s kids to boobies.......


----------



## Primus

jhungary said:


> This is the PG version, after she had stripped
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you forgot the number 1 rules on Steven Segal. It's never going to be a nice funny movie with Steven Segal.............and this movie introduced a lot of 90s kids to boobies.......


Ohhh damn i thought you meant airplane as in the movie air plane.


But no, i did watch the film half way into it. It was around when they were loading the guns on the battleship and tommy lee jones is blasted back by the firing.


Also vid aint working. Plus i dont want to see it. Please stop


----------



## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Ohhh damn i thought you meant airplane as in the movie air plane.
> 
> 
> But no, i did watch the film half way into it. It was around when they were loading the guns on the battleship and tommy lee jones is blasted back by the firing.
> 
> 
> Also vid aint working. Plus i dont want to see it. Please stop


lol I meant the airplane version of the film, which they deleted any nudity and profanity from the movie and show it on the airplane.

And that is not halfway point lol, he shot at the sub and killed the XO (IIRC it's that scene played by Gary Busey) with the 16 inch is probably 2nd or 3rd last scene in the movie.






This is the battleship scene you are talking about. That scene was quite good, and then ruined by the movie "Battleship"

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russians are such a bunch of liars @F-22Raptor @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557107882742644736



You just love to hear your own lies. An obsolete plane that was decommissioned doesn't prove your and others' claims. Russian MOD is telling the truth. Now, how about this? 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557320017208909825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557319373047603200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557315747256442881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557324238931087361

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557303262763687937

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## Viet

»After the liberation of Kiev and all areas of Little Russia (means Ukraine) from the gangs of nationalists, who preach their made-up Ukrainism, Russia will again become powerful and invincible as it was a thousand years ago during the Old Russian State«.

"Before its annexation by Russia, Georgia did not exist at all".

»Kazakhstan is an artificial state, a former Russian territory. In this century, the Kazakh authorities have begun to take initiatives to resettle various ethnic groups within the republic, which can be described as genocide against the Russians«.

- Dmitrij Medwedew

Ex president of Russia


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

*Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine *

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

💥*High-precision strikes of the Russian Aerospace Forces have destroyed 1 ammunition depot of the 54th Mechanised Brigade in Krasnogorovka, Donetsk People's Republic. The losses on the Ukrainian side amounted to up to 30 servicemen, over 6,000 artillery shells and mortar shells of various calibres, as well as 7 vehicles.*

💥*As a result of the Russian Aerospace Forces' strikes on the temporary deployment points of the 93rd Mechanized Brigade of AFU near Andreyevka, Kharkov Region, up to 100 nationalists and over 20 units of military equipment have been destroyed*.

💥*As a result of Russian Aerospace Forces' strikes, the 56th Motorized Infantry Brigade of AFU has lost its combat effectiveness near Peski, Donetsk People's Republic. Up to 70% of personnel has been eliminated. Most of the Ukrainians mobilised citizens to make up for the brigade's losses, refused to move to the line of contact and deserted*.

💥Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery strikes continue against military facilities in Ukraine.

▫️5 command posts have been hit, including those of the 46th Airmobile Brigade near Andreyevka, Kherson Region, the National Guard's Khortitsa regiment in Kushugum, Zaporozhye Region, Aidar nationalist formation in Novoselovka, Donetsk People's Republic and the 56th Motorized Infantry Brigade in Nikolaev city. 

▫️*7 ammunition and mossile and artillery weapon depots have been destroyed near Nikolaevka, Fedorovka, Vyemka in Donetsk People's Republic and Kushugum in Zaporozhye Regio*n.

▫️*1 Gepard anti-aircraft missile and gun system supplied to Kiev regime by Germany has been destroyed near Novopavlovka, Nikolaev Region. In addition, 1 launcher of Ukrainian S-300 anti-aircraft missile system has been destroyed near Kramatorsk, Donetsk People's Republic.*

💥As part of the counter-battery warfare 2 Ukrainian platoons of Grad MLRS, as well as 2 artillery platoons of D-20 guns and 2 platoons of D-30 howitzers at firing positions near Kirovo, Seversk and Verkhnekamenskoye of Donetsk People's Republic have been suppressed.

💥*Russian Aerospace Forces fighter aircraft have shot down 3 Ukrainian Air Force aircraft in aerial combat over the territory of Nikolaev Region: 1 Su-25 near Novokhristoforovka, 1 MiG-29 over Troitsko-Safonovo and 1 Su-27 near Novosel'e.*

💥Russian air defence means have destroyed 9 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles near Chervonyi Yar, Andreyevka, Pervomaiskoye, Vernopol'e, Novoye in Kharkov Region, Ivanovka, Peski, Valer'yanovka in Donetsk People's Republic and on the western outskirts of Donetsk city.

▫️*In addition, 2 Tochka-U ballistic missiles have been shot down in the air over Krynki, Kherson Region, and 7 shells of HIMARS multiple-launch rocket system near Novaya Kakhovka, Lyubimovka and Chervonyi Mayak, Kherson Region. Also, 4 shells of Smerch multiple-launch rocket system have been intercepted near Veselyi Kut, Nikolaev Region.*

📊In total, 267 Ukrainian airplanes and 145 helicopters, 1,720 unmanned aerial vehicles, 365 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4,283 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 795 multiple launch rocket systems, 3,286 field artillery and mortars, as well as 4,807 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557269035271831552

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> Russians are such a bunch of liars @F-22Raptor @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557107882742644736


well he maybe somehow right , i don't knew about NATO designation . here when we say army aviation we mean helicopter , drones and such.
when we talk about airplanes , we talk about air-force. in this case evidence show one su-24 damaged beyond repair , probably some su-30 and su-24 also damaged . these are not Army Aviation equipment , they are air-force equipment


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557269035271831552


Stealing electricity from Ukraine. That’s low.

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## F-22Raptor

Apparently Grom-2 ballistic missiles were used in the strike on the airfield yesterday, and the US helped Ukraine complete the development of those missiles.


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Stealing electricity from Ukraine. That’s low.


Nice they captured that plant.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557364405079269377

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557353802063298561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557364322963263488


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You just love to hear your own lies. An obsolete plane that was decommissioned doesn't prove your and others' claims. Russian MOD is telling the truth. Now, how about this? 👇



The Russian MoD was also claiming Moskva wasn't hit then was hit and everything is under control,the ship is going to base and you were among the one posting RU MOD claims. 

A obsolete and decommissioned plane,no just the Russian air force that's composed mostly of trash that should belong in a museum. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557361598620209152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557295590224052224

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557305465687744512

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## The SC

Han Patriot said:


> Nice they captured that plant.


It was built by the Soviet Union..

https://www.power-technology.com/projects/zaporizhzhya-nuclear-power-plant/


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557373333108396039

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557374007430844416


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557265992962785280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557251568197672960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557226230105214976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557180806803628038

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## Corax

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557353802063298561
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557364322963263488
> 
> 
> The Russian MoD was also claiming Moskva wasn't hit then was hit and everything is under control,the ship is going to base and you were among the one posting RU MOD claims.
> 
> A obsolete and decommissioned plane,no just the Russian air force that's composed mostly of trash that should belong in a museum.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557361598620209152
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557295590224052224
> 
> View attachment 869441



Seems to be a combination of Russian incompetence and opportunistic strikes by the Ukis, especially if they are now developing their own Grom-2 ballistic missiles, similar to the Iskander, which would certainly give them more bite. This whole war has effectively demonstrated the shortcomings of the Russians in effective battlefield management and theatre command and control, especially integrated warfare. But given all that, I'm surprised the Russians have achieved what they have so far, trying to invade and manage a theatre the size of France and Germany combined, with a highly capable, mobile, creative, and motivated Uki armed forces, backed up by the full weight of NATO and the US combined. At the moment it's finally balanced, almost a stalemate, and it could go either way in my view.


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557364405079269377


According to someone here, M777 were destroyed left and right, probably 100 gone, 3 months ago I said there are only 4 documented wrecks, and now it's 8. 

Man, you really need to admire people intelligence (or lack there of) in this forum.

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Nice they captured that plant.


They steal grains. They steal electricity. you support a thief. Weird for a culture folks. that is very regrettable.



F-22Raptor said:


> Apparently Grom-2 ballistic missiles were used in the strike on the airfield yesterday, and the US helped Ukraine complete the development of those missiles.


10 aircraft destroyed. Ukraine says that is just the beginning. The Russians will never sleep well again. Crimea is within striking distance of Ukraine ballistic and land missiles.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557380744900743168

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557384679166283779
So in about 4 months of "shifting to the Donbass" and despite huge artillery advantage and advantage in armor,personnel etc. Russia only managed to capture the purple area.






@Hassan Al-Somal

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557391959286845442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557366545550016513

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Seems to be a combination of Russian incompetence and opportunistic strikes by the Ukis, especially if they are now developing their own Grom-2 ballistic missiles, similar to the Iskander, which would certainly give them more bite. This whole war has effectively demonstrated the shortcomings of the Russians in effective battlefield management and theatre command and control, especially integrated warfare. But given all that, I'm surprised the Russians have achieved what they have so far, trying to invade and manage a theatre the size of France and Germany combined, with a highly capable, mobile, creative, and motivated Uki armed forces, backed up by the full weight of NATO and the US combined. At the moment it's finally balanced, almost a stalemate, and it could go either way in my view.




Full weight of the US? What are you smoking?

No Abrams, Bradley’s, Strykers, M109s, M270s, Apaches, Patriots, THAAD etc etc. 

What’s been given:

30% of Javelins arsenal 
25% of Stinger arsenal 
126 M777 howitzers
16 HIMARS 
1,000+ loitering munitions

If you think that’s the full weight of the US, then your absolutely delusional.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557384715119755265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557340633819676673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557304744057651201
Russian high-precision air to ground missiles Type 305E destroys Ukrainian ammunition depots


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557403143335550977

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## Viet

Germany delivered 12 flakpanzer Gepard to Ukraine. 18 more coming.












Deutsche Militärhilfe für die Ukraine: Jetzt 12 Geparden angekommen – Augen geradeaus!







augengeradeaus.net


----------



## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> Full weight of the US? What are you smoking?
> 
> No Abrams, Bradley’s, Strykers, M109s, M270s, Apaches, Patriots, THAAD etc etc.
> 
> What’s been given:
> 
> 30% of Javelins arsenal
> 25% of Stinger arsenal
> 126 M777 howitzers
> 16 HIMARS
> 1,000+ loitering munitions
> 
> If you think that’s the full weight of the US, then your absolutely delusional.



Full weight of what the US and NATO is willing to give without escalating it into WWIII. That could change of course if the US administration ever became as delusional as some Murican fan boys on this Pakistani Defence Forum


----------



## The SC

Ukr. Seite spoke of nine aircraft destroyed, but to the best of my knowledge no visual confirmation of this has been provided so far.. There is only one video that shows a destroyed Su-24, but this video cannot be clearly verified either...
(9/25)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557384618667655168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557384594818834432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557378888229179392


----------



## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Full weight of what the US and NATO is willing to give without escalating it into WWIII. That could change of course if the US administration ever became as delusional as some Murican fan boys on this Pakistani Defence Forum



If the US got involved the war would be over in weeks. Not only would Russia be defeated, but embarrassingly so.

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## Corax

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557384715119755265
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557340633819676673
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557304744057651201
> Russian high-precision air to ground missiles Type 305E destroys Ukrainian ammunition depots



The RuAF is still knocking out large fixed Uki installations like arms depots when this should have been done in the first 48 hours of the conflict.



F-22Raptor said:


> If the US got involved the war would be over in weeks. Not only would Russia be defeated, but embarrassingly so.



And you're assuming it doesn't go nuclear before then? Or do you think the US can win that as well?  and apparently I'm the one who's delusional?! you're like a stuck record at a country western hoedown.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557354680770068482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557398543979225088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557398550262202373

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557353100415242240


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557409203517640705


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557333652509540354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557261211896627200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557338078951391235

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557314249911070722


----------



## Vergennes

Corax said:


> The RuAF is still knocking out large fixed Uki installations like arms depots when this should have been done in the first 48 hours of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> And you're assuming it doesn't go nuclear before then? Or do you think the US can win that as well?  and apparently I'm the one who's delusional?! you're like a stuck record at a country western hoedown.



Are you aware that Russian intel is so outdated (as the maps they are using,some from the 60's) that they are striking military targets which were no longer in use even during the Soviet Union times.


----------



## The SC

Will Biden Stumble into a New World War?





The secret word is:


----------



## The SC

*70% of Ukrainian troops eliminated in Pisky, Russia said*​


----------



## Soldier35

Russian artillery began to actively use Krasnopol high-precision guided missiles. The front received 5000 thousand of such ammunition. The video shows the impact of the Krasnopol projectile on the Ukrainian M777 howitzer made in the USA.






The work of sappers in Ukraine. When searching for mines, IMP-S2 induction mine detectors are used.






Ukraine received a batch of Turkish-made Kirpi armored vehicles, 50 vehicles are already on the front line, - said Yury Misyagin, deputy of the ruling Servant of the People party. Turkish armored car Kirpi 4x4 developed by the BMC






Video of the assembly and launch of the Russian Orlan-10 UAV. The drone is refueled with AI-95 fuel and launched from a catapult. At the time of launch, wind speeds up to 10 m/s are allowed. Orlan-10 can stay in the air for up to 16-18 hours.


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557378888229179392


Artillery impact recorded several kilometers away is not exactly russia entering the city. Maybe thats why the pro-russian reports never seems to be correct.


----------



## Corax

Vergennes said:


> Are you aware that Russian intel is so outdated (as the maps they are using,some from the 60's) that they are striking military targets which were no longer in use even during the Soviet Union times.



It wouldn't surprise me given how incompetent the Russians seem to be, but that makes it all the more surprising how much they have managed to achieve if they really are as bad as you claim. Moreover, it goes to show how incompetent and corrupt the Ukrainians are as well if they can't defeat the third rate Russians, even with all the support from that US and intelligence.


----------



## Vergennes

Corax said:


> It wouldn't surprise me given how incompetent the Russians seem to be, but that makes it all the more surprising how much they have managed to achieve if they really are as bad as you claim. Moreover, it goes to show how incompetent and corrupt the Ukrainians are as well if they can't defeat the third rate Russians, even with all the support from that US and intelligence.



There again with the claim "Russia only sent their third rate troops" only to justify their army's poor performance. I wouldn't call all those elite VDV,motor rifle,tank divisions etc. that were wiped out in Ukraine as "third rate".

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## MeFishToo

Was that a Javelin, and notice the infantry is carried outside the BMP. Why is that? Not that it matters, but it probably saved them in this situation.

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## Vergennes

LMAO. "Russian MoD said no aircrafts were destroyed". @Hassan Al-Somal 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557442659224002561

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> LMAO. "Russian MoD said no aircrafts were destroyed". @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557442659224002561



About 12 aircraft destroyed it seems - virtually an entire squadron.

Ukraine claims 12 aswell it seems.









Ukraine air force claims up to a dozen Russian jets destroyed in Crimea raid


Attack on Saky military base in Novofedorivka on Tuesday afternoon killed one and wounded 13




www.theguardian.com


----------



## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> LMAO. "Russian MoD said no aircrafts were destroyed". @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557442659224002561


They knew satelite images would document it, but still chose to lie to the russian public.

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> About 12 aircraft destroyed it seems - virtually an entire squadron.
> 
> Ukraine claims 12 aswell it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine air force claims up to a dozen Russian jets destroyed in Crimea raid
> 
> 
> Attack on Saky military base in Novofedorivka on Tuesday afternoon killed one and wounded 13
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



It looks closer to 16-18 damaged or destroyed. They completely wrecked that base.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557429484080570368
These numbers are looking pretty accurate after seeing the base damage. Whatever the final number, it was a really bad day for the Russian Air Force.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557408899296288770

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557452012287049728
A Russian military warehouse has been hit in Donetsk.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557453340560211969
The UK announced they will be sending 3 more M270s

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557457262297448452

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## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557449807345733635

This attack was almost certainly from the Ukrainian Grom-2 or ATACMS.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557461112630771712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557461508388421632

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## The SC



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## Viet

MeFishToo said:


> They knew satelite images would document it, but still chose to lie to the russian public.


They learn from China. Losing face is the worst thing on earth.
The local authority has declared state of emergency in Crimea. Gas supplies to some areas have been cut off. People are evacuated. Seems the russians are panicking. The war is coming to them.

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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> LMAO. "Russian MoD said no aircrafts were destroyed". @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557442659224002561


Yet Hassan continues to take sources like twitter messages from Kadyrov and Russian MoD as the “undisputed truth”. 

His ability for critical thought was long lost.

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557457262297448452


Craters are exactly where buildings/ammuntion/fuels were located. Might aswell be craters from them blowing up.
Could be ukrainian special forces operating loitering munition from great distance having unexpected succes.


----------



## aziqbal

Russia is now going to go all out and the response will be very heavy 

I think Russians are going to carpet bomb Kiev for this 

and if it was a HIMAR then NATO all be getting it hard

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## F-22Raptor

aziqbal said:


> Russia is now going to go all out and the response will be very heavy
> 
> I think Russians are going to carpet bomb Kiev for this
> 
> and if it was a HIMAR then NATO all be getting it hard



Didn't you say just a few days ago the Russians had entered Bakhmut? Stop spreading Russian lies please.

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## ZeGerman

aziqbal said:


> Russia is now going to go all out and the response will be very heavy
> 
> I think Russians are going to carpet bomb Kiev for this
> 
> and if it was a HIMAR then NATO all be getting it hard


Can they carpet bomb it though?
They still failed to achieve air dominance.

@jhungary or do they have bombers outside range of sam/buk/manpad/stinger defences, and whatever migs the ukranians still have?


(Also If they can, then there is the matter of international and national response.)

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## Corax

Vergennes said:


> There again with the claim "Russia only sent their third rate troops" only to justify their army's poor performance. I wouldn't call all those elite VDV,motor rifle,tank divisions etc. that were wiped out in Ukraine as "third rate".



Where did I say Russia only sent its third rate troops to Ukraine? I meant the entire Russian armed forces is third rate based on their current incompetence. Even if their so called elite troops are being wiped out, why haven't the Ukis won yet? Why have the Russians, despite their incompetence, achieved what they have so far? In my view, there's not much difference between the Ukis and Russians, they are equally as incompetent as each other, equally corrupt, and equally cheaply bought, hence why there's pretty much a stalemate.

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## MeFishToo

aziqbal said:


> Russia is now going to go all out and the response will be very heavy
> 
> I think Russians are going to carpet bomb Kiev for this
> 
> and if it was a HIMAR then NATO all be getting it hard


Carpet bomb a city the size of Kiev with what exactly? So far the russian version of carpet bombing has been with artillery.

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## Corax

Looks like the Ukis have developed their Grom-2 ballistic missile, similar to the Iskander. Now all they need is to produce it quickly in significant numbers and deploy it, and the Russians need to locate and destroy its manufacturing locations.


----------



## aziqbal

F-22Raptor said:


> Didn't you say just a few days ago the Russians had entered Bakhmut? Stop spreading Russian lies please.



Soledar they took the Belokamensk factory plant on the East Side

and Bukhmut they are now in control of the Ceramic plant in down highway 32 and advancing towards the city centre

no doubt Russia is bleeding but lets not ignore facts here

US took 9 months to take Fallujah against unarmed poor Iraqis and it fell 2 weeks later to ISIS

Russia has taken area size of France in 6 months against 50 countries

btw I dont support Russia killing of civilians but Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557055763838898176


ZeGerman said:


> Can they carpet bomb it though?
> They still failed to achieve air dominance.
> 
> @jhungary or do they have bombers outside range of sam/buk/manpad/stinger defences, and whatever migs the ukranians still have?
> 
> 
> (Also If they can, then there is the matter of international and national response.)



well whichever way 

Russia clearly said any attack on Crimea will be dealt as a attack on Russian soil 

and if HIMARS did it they will hit NATO 

this is a very significant escalation


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukraine is sending 70 year olds to the front-line, and as you can see below, they're taken as prisoners of war. Looks like their Western patrons don't care bout the lives of Ukrainians as long as they provide enough cannon fodder.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557380038827327490


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557295208991281153


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557464425359106050


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557454542966603779


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## MeFishToo

aziqbal said:


> Soledar they took the Belokamensk factory plant on the East Side
> 
> and Bukhmut they are now in control of the Ceramic plant in down highway 32 and advancing towards the city centre
> 
> no doubt Russia is bleeding but lets not ignore facts here
> 
> US took 9 months to take Fallujah against unarmed poor Iraqis and it fell 2 weeks later to ISIS
> 
> Russia has taken area size of France in 6 months against 50 countries
> 
> btw I dont support Russia killing of civilians but Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557055763838898176
> 
> 
> well whichever way
> 
> Russia clearly said any attack on Crimea will be dealt as a attack on Russian soil
> 
> and if HIMARS did it they will hit NATO
> 
> this is a very significant escalation


Lets see Russia actually hit NATO countries, insted of trusting russian propaganda talkshow hosts on this matter.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557454542966603779

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557452533500616712


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> They steal grains. They steal electricity. you support a thief. Weird for a culture folks. that is very regrettable.
> 
> 
> 10 aircraft destroyed. Ukraine says that is just the beginning. The Russians will never sleep well again. Crimea is within striking distance of Ukraine ballistic and land missiles.


It belonged to the Soviet Union, and it will belong to them once again. Lololol



The SC said:


> It was built by the Soviet Union..
> 
> https://www.power-technology.com/projects/zaporizhzhya-nuclear-power-plant/


Exactly, the Ukrainians inherited alot of the best Soviet infrastructure and industrial base. Yet, they betrayed their own brethren and chose to be an American dog. There are only 2 real independent powers left on earth.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557414676090298371

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557469272766648323


----------



## aviator_fan

Corax said:


> So Iranians have excelled at murder in the middle East?! This coming from a Zionist supporting Murican?! lol I couldn't give a flying fcuk about the Iranians, but my original point stands, the US invasion of Iraq was a strategic failure if its main objective was to remove a threat to the Zionist state. Glad to see the Muricans finally admitting they're supporting a neo-Nazi Zionist state, as well as the Ukranian Nazis.


I have said before while I am not a supporter of American policy, I don'tt agree with you. This is a forum and the idea of a forum is to have different opinions. I am sure if your desire is to only impress your view and hurtle insults, then you can do that in the confines of your own household and scream at the family members to submission. You don't need to come to this forum to do that. 

You are unfortunately emotionally charged making accusations and misses the point on why Indian-loving Iranians are having their assess kicked.

Everybody knows the blood thats on US hands. Nobody is disputing it. But take stock of the situation that Iran (and Saudis) have tons of blood on their hands through supporting opposite sides in Syria, Yemen. More so than the zionists have done in the last 30 years.

US actions in Iraq triggered instability in Syria. Enough that Israelis felt more emboldened to depopulate Palestine, on the other side, GCC has fallen in line as they all set-up the ultimate in treachery and recognized Israel. Give a few years, and Saudis will as well.

This would have been unimaginable in 2003 before Iraq invasion.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

It seems Russia is about to undertake a serious action. We'll have to see what that action is. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557437501270269953

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## aviator_fan

ZeGerman said:


> Himars are not a wonderweapon to win a war by itself.
> 
> But Himars combined with USA sat. Intel, combined with no russian air dominance, and their shoot and scoot ability make them a huge headache for the russians. Going mostly uncontested and hitting russia where it hurts..almost at will…


I concur. Its not just the weapons but all the intel (satellite, signal etc) that is not talked about thats being fed thats giving Ukraine the true advantage. I had suspicions that Russian military was hollow when the Pentagon made a big deal of Russian engagement in Syria (more to get more funding for themselves). But the fact that they are pretty much in a stalemate and war of attrition and now losing basis has confirmed that. 

I do wonder from Russia's standpoint: they knew they weren't what they thought they were but they could project the might to rest of the world. Why risk it all and expose it. This is the problem with despots: they surround themselves with 'yes' men that support what they want to hear and not the reality.

This was Saddam and Qaddafi's downfalls. If any of you go down the despot / strong man path, be sure to have at least ONE adviser thats not afraid of being executed and can tell you as it is.



aziqbal said:


> Russia is now going to go all out and the response will be very heavy
> 
> I think Russians are going to carpet bomb Kiev for this
> 
> and if it was a HIMAR then NATO all be getting it hard



You are starting to sound like 'Baghdad Bob' and all of his famous sayings: you are saying there was a reason that Kiev was spared because of some compassion they had? 

THey can't even establish air superiority over a third rate nation, you think they are going to hit NATO. 


Baghdad Bob on the Invasion​Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf made so many statements as information minister. Here is a sampling of some of his more outlandish quotes:



"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"
"My feelings, as usual, we will slaughter them all."
"Our initial assessment is that they will all die."
"No I am not scared and neither should you be!"
"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."
"They're not even [within] 100 miles [of Baghdad]. They are not in any place. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion ... they are trying to sell to the others an illusion."

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557489745344733184


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## Broccoli

MeFishToo said:


> Lets see Russia actually hit NATO countries, insted of trusting russian propaganda talkshow hosts on this matter.



Russians barely can manage Ukraine and people really beliece they could bomb NATO forces? Their forces in Ukraine would be wiped out in a week if they attacked NATO forces.

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukraine is sending 70 year olds to the front-line, and as you can see below, they're taken as prisoners of war. Looks like their Western patrons don't care bout the lives of Ukrainians as long as they provide enough cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557380038827327490


This assumes that NATO is all knowing and Ukranians are mindless brain dead drones just waiting to be manipulated. Ukraine made the decision to fight this war. Its their men that decided to comply and stay. President was offered to be evacuated on day 1, but he said he would rather die.

Regardless of we agree or not Ukraine's decision, but know they made it on their own and the country supported it. And yes if they choose to fight, the west then provided the weapons.

Very much like Mujahideen against Soviets: they chose to fight and so were equipped with weapons.

Converse is not true: if you give weapons and support, the force may not have the conviction to fight. Thats what happened with Afghanistan Govt collapsed a year ago with tail behind its legs with with enough weaponry that the military aid was second only to Israel.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557472970884485123


----------



## Bengal71

The SC said:


> *70% of Ukrainian troops eliminated in Pisky, Russia said*​



I like it how the word 'Ganimah' is starting to become mainstream.

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## The SC



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557370240803258370

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557290966490689536


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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557003083485532161


~


As " reliable " as the rest of your reports.

At least have the decency to correct your information.

~

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557429484080570368
> These numbers are looking pretty accurate after seeing the base damage. Whatever the final number, it was a really bad day for the Russian Air Force.









You can see 8 destroyed in the parking. Than there are those who parked on the runway who disappeared , but there are burn marks where they stood .

~

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## Sayfullah

Ukraine is Afghanistan 2.0 for Russia

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## Viet

aziqbal said:


> Soledar they took the Belokamensk factory plant on the East Side
> 
> and Bukhmut they are now in control of the Ceramic plant in down highway 32 and advancing towards the city centre
> 
> no doubt Russia is bleeding but lets not ignore facts here
> 
> US took 9 months to take Fallujah against unarmed poor Iraqis and it fell 2 weeks later to ISIS
> 
> Russia has taken area size of France in 6 months against 50 countries
> 
> btw I dont support Russia killing of civilians but Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557055763838898176
> 
> 
> well whichever way
> 
> Russia clearly said any attack on Crimea will be dealt as a attack on Russian soil
> 
> and if HIMARS did it they will hit NATO
> 
> this is a very significant escalation


France landmass is 543,000 km2, Ukraine 603,000 km2. Please do some math before posting nonsense.

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## Oldman1

aziqbal said:


> Russia is now going to go all out and the response will be very heavy
> 
> I think Russians are going to carpet bomb Kiev for this
> 
> and if it was a HIMAR then NATO all be getting it hard


Why? The Russians claim it was an accident. I'm not saying it's an accident, but it's an accident.

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> It belonged to the Soviet Union, and it will belong to them once again. Lololol
> 
> 
> Exactly, the Ukrainians inherited alot of the best Soviet infrastructure and industrial base. Yet, they betrayed their own brethren and chose to be an American dog. There are only 2 real independent powers left on earth.


Yes dinosaur will return. USSR resurrecting. Vietnam reenter USSR military alliance.


----------



## Oldman1

Sayfullah said:


> Ukraine is Afghanistan 2.0 for Russia


Far worse, months ago just before the war I say it would be like Afghanistan for Russia, but with heavy modern weaponry involved and who knows what else is being provided by the world, its like Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria combine along with Yemen when you have ballistic missiles involved now.

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557370240803258370


Try to steal electricity first before steal those minerals. Would be a challenge under constant Ukraine missile bombardment.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557370240803258370


What a coincidence….

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## DF41

aziqbal said:


> Russia is now going to go all out and the response will be very heavy
> 
> I think Russians are going to carpet bomb Kiev for this
> 
> and if it was a HIMAR then NATO all be getting it hard




China be happy to supply Russia 10 numbers of PCL 191 for every HIMARS, 
each PCL 191 delivered with 1000 Firedragons reach of 350km and CEP 1 meter  

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...91-multiple-launch-rocket-system-casts-shadow


----------



## Oldman1

Corax said:


> Full weight of what the US and NATO is willing to give without escalating it into WWIII. That could change of course if the US administration ever became as delusional as some Murican fan boys on this Pakistani Defence Forum


Not that hard to do. Ukraine blows up an airbase in Crimea which Russia has said in the past was considered Judgement Day but decides to call it an accident. Isn't that interesting?
@jhungary 









Russia's Medvedev: Attack on Crimea will ignite 'Judgement Day' response


The refusal of Ukraine and Western powers to recognise Moscow's control of Crimea poses a "systemic threat" for Russia and any outside attack on the region will prompt a "Judgment Day" response, former president Dmitry Medvedev said on Sunday.




www.reuters.com





Russia's Medvedev: Attack on Crimea will ignite 'Judgement Day' response​
MOSCOW, July 17 (Reuters) - The refusal of Ukraine and Western powers to recognise Moscow's control of Crimea poses a "systemic threat" for Russia and any outside attack on the region will prompt a "Judgment Day" response, former president Dmitry Medvedev said on Sunday.

Russia annexed the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 after a pro-Moscow president in Kyiv was toppled amid mass street protests. Moscow then also backed pro-Russian armed separatists in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine.


In the event of an attack on Crimea, Medvedev was quoted by TASS news agency as saying, "Judgment Day will come very fast and hard. It will be very difficult to hide."

Medvedev did not elaborate but has previously warned the United States of the dangers of attempting to punish a nuclear power such as Russia over its actions in Ukraine, saying this could endanger humanity. read more



sammuel said:


> You can see 8 destroyed in the parking. Than there are those who parked on the runway who disappeared , but there are burn marks where they stood .
> 
> ~


They were in the process of removing aircraft when the picture was taken.

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## Dariush the Great

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557582414373081088

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Can they carpet bomb it though?
> They still failed to achieve air dominance.
> 
> @jhungary or do they have bombers outside range of sam/buk/manpad/stinger defences, and whatever migs the ukranians still have?
> 
> 
> (Also If they can, then there is the matter of international and national response.)


They can carpet bomb Kyiv in DCS if they want. 

For real? Nope.......Kyiv is probably one of the most heavily AA defended area in Ukraine. Any slow bomber like Tu-95 and Tu-160 would be sitting duck. Plus, some years ago Russian Air Force rearmed those bombers into tactical bombing role, which mean they are geared to take long range missile only, not sure if they can revert back into Strategic Role. 

The best they can do is to fire cruise missile from those bombers hundreds of miles away, otherwise they would have to travel 150 km into Kyiv and bomb Kyiv, it had never done so after the first month of war.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Not that hard to do. Ukraine blows up an airbase in Crimea which Russia has said in the past was considered Judgement Day but decides to call it an accident. Isn't that interesting?
> @jhungary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's Medvedev: Attack on Crimea will ignite 'Judgement Day' response
> 
> 
> The refusal of Ukraine and Western powers to recognise Moscow's control of Crimea poses a "systemic threat" for Russia and any outside attack on the region will prompt a "Judgment Day" response, former president Dmitry Medvedev said on Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's Medvedev: Attack on Crimea will ignite 'Judgement Day' response​
> MOSCOW, July 17 (Reuters) - The refusal of Ukraine and Western powers to recognise Moscow's control of Crimea poses a "systemic threat" for Russia and any outside attack on the region will prompt a "Judgment Day" response, former president Dmitry Medvedev said on Sunday.
> 
> Russia annexed the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 after a pro-Moscow president in Kyiv was toppled amid mass street protests. Moscow then also backed pro-Russian armed separatists in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine.
> 
> 
> In the event of an attack on Crimea, Medvedev was quoted by TASS news agency as saying, "Judgment Day will come very fast and hard. It will be very difficult to hide."
> 
> Medvedev did not elaborate but has previously warned the United States of the dangers of attempting to punish a nuclear power such as Russia over its actions in Ukraine, saying this could endanger humanity. read more
> 
> 
> They were in the process of removing aircraft when the picture was taken.


That's the dilemma the Russian have. 

If you remember correctly, Ukrainian black chopper and drone also attacks Oil Depot in Rostov and Belgorod, which unlike Crimea, it is actaul Russian territories. But both got played down and blame on outside thing. And how many times did Russia saying it is crossing the redline for the West to supply advanced weapon to Ukraine? And then they have done nothing?

Problem for Russia is, if they consider this as a Ukrainian attack, which crossed the redline they purposed. Then they will have to explained to their people why Russia is not safe and escalate the war. The power of Russian military come from the perception of power, when that perception is gone because you tell them it is not safe (Which is in this case), there are basically nothing left but the vast Strategic Nuclear stockpile for Russian to lean on, now, many Russian fanboy here on PDF and Russia would tell you they would Nuke America and Nuke Ukraine, but that mostly just pipedream, Putin is a self-preserve person, he wouldn't end his own life as well as his "Empire" just because of some attack from Ukraine. So unless Ukrainian or NATO really invaded Russia, Nuclear option is out of the table.

Now, what can Russia do if they say it was the Ukrainian attack? Actually, there are nothing they can do as they are already at war, you cannot be of any more at war with Ukraine, so this is the dilemma, if they say this is Ukraine, they will be forced to escalate the situation, but there is nothing to escalated except nuclear option. Or they would much rather do by calling it an accident and control their own population and move on.


Their red line is just for show, the actual redline for Russia is if NATO invade Russia. Otherwise, there are pretty much nothing the Russian can do at this point to escalate this war further.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> That's the dilemma the Russian have.
> 
> If you remember correctly, Ukrainian black chopper and drone also attacks Oil Depot in Rostov and Belgorod, which unlike Crimea, it is actaul Russian territories. But both got played down and blame on outside thing. And how many times did Russia saying it is crossing the redline for the West to supply advanced weapon to Ukraine? And then they have done nothing?
> 
> Problem for Russia is, if they consider this as a Ukrainian attack, which crossed the redline they purposed. Then they will have to explained to their people why Russia is not safe and escalate the war. The power of Russian military come from the perception of power, when that perception is gone because you tell them it is not safe (Which is in this case), there are basically nothing left but the vast Strategic Nuclear stockpile for Russian to lean on, now, many Russian fanboy here on PDF and Russia would tell you they would Nuke America and Nuke Ukraine, but that mostly just pipedream, Putin is a self-preserve person, he wouldn't end his own life as well as his "Empire" just because of some attack from Ukraine. So unless Ukrainian or NATO really invaded Russia, Nuclear option is out of the table.
> 
> Now, what can Russia do if they say it was the Ukrainian attack? Actually, there are nothing they can do as they are already at war, you cannot be of any more at war with Ukraine, so this is the dilemma, if they say this is Ukraine, they will be forced to escalate the situation, but there is nothing to escalated except nuclear option. Or they would much rather do by calling it an accident and control their own population and move on.
> 
> 
> Their red line is just for show, the actual redline for Russia is if NATO invade Russia. Otherwise, there are pretty much nothing the Russian can do at this point to escalate this war further.


According to Ukraine defense, someone was smoking, then accidentally blowed up the air base. 

So never smoke near a bomb! 

I think it’s a joke but you never know. Like the sinking of the Moskva. It was a storm that ignited the fire onboard. When trying to stop the fire they blowed up the ship.

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## gambit

Corax said:


> And you're assuming it doesn't go nuclear before then? Or do you think the US can win that as well?  and apparently I'm the one who's delusional?! you're like a stuck record at a country western hoedown.


If you have to go nuclear, that does not say much about your military. That is like a mechanic whose skills are limited to basic maintenance and jump straight to scrapping the car, and nothing between. So yes, the US/NATO would make short work of the Russian military.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> According to Ukraine defense, someone was smoking, then accidentally blowed up the air base.
> 
> So never smoke near a bomb!
> 
> I think it’s a joke but you never know. Like the sinking of the Moskva. It was a storm that ignited the fire onboard. When trying to stop the fire they blowed up the ship.


well, I have actually seen strange shit that goes beyond believe happened in war. But then it does not happen twice, three time or six time in a row within 6 months......


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> well, I have actually seen strange shit that goes beyond believe happened in war. But then it does not happen twice, three time or six time in a row within 6 months......


smoking on a ship or near a bomb is dangerous. Maybe they should switch to new sort of cigarettes? There are some less dangerous alternatives.

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## aziqbal

DF41 said:


> China be happy to supply Russia 10 numbers of PCL 191 for every HIMARS,
> each PCL 191 delivered with 1000 Firedragons reach of 350km and CEP 1 meter
> 
> https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...91-multiple-launch-rocket-system-casts-shadow



China does not have that kind of guts

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## patero

jhungary said:


> well, I have actually seen strange shit that goes beyond believe happened in war. But then it does not happen twice, three time or six time in a row within 6 months......


......or 12 times in the space of a minute on the same airbase. Maybe they should hire a new creative team for their propaganda department instead of just continually copying and pasting the same story.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557495156340817920

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## ZeGerman

DF41 said:


> China be happy to supply Russia 10 numbers of PCL 191 for every HIMARS,
> each PCL 191 delivered with 1000 Firedragons reach of 350km and CEP 1 meter
> 
> https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...91-multiple-launch-rocket-system-casts-shadow


Every time china is starting to get a big mouth it is usually humbled by the west….

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557687777080348672


sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> As " reliable " as the rest of your reports.
> 
> At least have the decency to correct your information.
> 
> ~



You're the last person in this forum who can preach decency, Pajeet. My reports are going to be keep coming in. Who cares if you don't like it.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557689594350649344
Destruction of self-propelled howitzers "Caesar" of French production transferred to Ukraine 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557686343202967555


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557677110990356482


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## Hassan Al-Somal

The Russian artillery is working here effectively


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557470246793281536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557431564975460352


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557090402888548357

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557428064442880003

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557407481432870914


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557696128208060416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557689757328621573
Russia's missile rain on all over Ukraine. 👇

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557680967023747077


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## Viet

How Russia Took Over Ukraine’s Internet in Occupied Territories


Diverting traffic through Russian networks makes it easier to censor, surveil and digitally wall off the invaded population.



www.nytimes.com





The Russians hijack Ukraine internet traffic.
Ukraine should find out where the central nodes and cut them off. Just to find out where the glas fibers are running to.


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## Beny Karachun

Viet said:


> How Russia Took Over Ukraine’s Internet in Occupied Territories
> 
> 
> Diverting traffic through Russian networks makes it easier to censor, surveil and digitally wall off the invaded population.
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russians hijack Ukraine internet traffic.
> Ukraine should find out where the central nodes and cut them off. Just to find out where the glas fibers are running to.


Bruh ignore my last comment.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557696128208060416
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557689757328621573
> Russia's missile rain on all over Ukraine. 👇
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557680967023747077


No airfield?😥


----------



## jhungary

patero said:


> ......or 12 times in the space of a minute on the same airbase. Maybe they should hire a new creative team for their propaganda department instead of just continually copying and pasting the same story.


or about 30,000 time when everyone of their soldier was killed and they don't know what happened........

That just some bullet hole magically appears in someone's head.....

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## BHAN85

Dariush the Great said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557582414373081088


Maybe it was a sabotage so easy that Russian are so embarrass to admit it.

Sometime has happened an accident of that kind, blowing up so many airplanes?


----------



## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> Dmitry Peskov, the kremlin spokesman says Turkey opening of Bayraktar manufacturing plant will prolong the suffering of Ukrainians.
> 
> Hey hey russian artillery will ease the suffering, not ukraine drones.
> 
> He is 1A clown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image: AP


Well the policy of the EU was to impose an arms embargo on Bosnia to prevent worsening of conflict during the Bosnia war.



ZeGerman said:


> Ah yes another usefull conspiracy nut tool for russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian disinformation finds fertile ground in the West - Nature Human Behaviour
> 
> 
> Russian disinformation exploits social problems in foreign states to undermine peopleâ€™s trust and breed conspiracy theories. Tackling it is difficult but feasible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nature.com


Anti-Russian colonialists seem to be the game of today.


----------



## Han Patriot

aziqbal said:


> China does not have that kind of guts


Of course we don't, that's why Iran is the one supplying drones made from Chinese parts. Lolol

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## BHAN85

my thoughs about crimea blast:
-electric sabotage through power cable lines
-cyberattack to air cooler, increasing temperature in weapons deposit
-ukrodevils using mirrors to concentrate sun energy against weapons deposit

I dont have more senseless hypothesis for now, and you? some idea besides an accident?

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## Foinikas

Very interesting video!

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## The SC



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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Destruction of self-propelled howitzers "Caesar" of French production transferred to Ukraine 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557686343202967555



Old video that was apparently geolocated near Snake Island. 45.3017100, 29.7524800

BTW the caesar was intact and there's a soldier running to it to move it from this position. Nice try though.



ZeGerman said:


> Every time china is starting to get a big mouth it is usually humbled by the west….




There's even a Russian proverb about it 









China's final warning - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Viet

It’s raining money.
Ukraine receives fresh 1.55 billion USD for weapons purchases.










Western countries pledge $1.55 bln in military aid to Ukraine


Western countries on Thursday committed more than 1.5 billion euros ($1.55 billion) in cash, equipment and training to boost Ukraine's military capabilities in its war against Russia, Danish Defence Minister Morten Bodskov said.




www.reuters.com


----------



## DF41

aziqbal said:


> China does not have that kind of guts







*
Murica and NATO entities to be feared by China?




*

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## The SC




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## ZeGerman

DF41 said:


> *Murica and NATO entities to be feared by China?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Last time the chinese were laughing at the west that hard they went through the hundred years of humiliation….

I assume they are a lot smarter by now, a lot smarter then you. 

Europe is their biggest trade partner, USA still has the strongest military force. 
Russia will be reduced to north korea with cheap gas/oil for what little scraps of support china throws at it. Why would they risk it all for russia?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557769008929185793

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557763825516118017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557765575404830720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557764847697383431

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557699231800086528

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> lol I meant the airplane version of the film, which they deleted any nudity and profanity from the movie and show it on the airplane.
> 
> And that is not halfway point lol, he shot at the sub and killed the XO (IIRC it's that scene played by Gary Busey) with the 16 inch is probably 2nd or 3rd last scene in the movie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the battleship scene you are talking about. That scene was quite good, and then ruined by the movie "Battleship"


Hahaha I remember this 😂



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557699231800086528


I love Americans. 😂 At the least they are honest.


----------



## dbc

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557764847697383431


Photoshop fail. There are online photoshop training courses I can recommend to Putin.


----------



## HorusRa

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/wlyfys

Cool video of a Javelin hunting it's favorite prey: a russian tank

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## Type59

Vergennes said:


> Old video that was apparently geolocated near Snake Island. 45.3017100, 29.7524800
> 
> BTW the caesar was intact and there's a soldier running to it to move it from this position. Nice try though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's even a Russian proverb about it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's final warning - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



I doubt them guns were intact. People seem to forget how blasts and shrapnel work. Dude running towards it could mean anything. He could be helping someone injured in cabin. 

This video has never been posted here before

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557692214322626560

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## Ali_Baba

Crimea attack is Russia’s ‘biggest loss of aircraft in a single day since Second World War’​








Crimea attack is Russia’s ‘biggest loss of aircraft in a single day since Second World War’


Some analysts believe Moscow could have lost as many as 20 jets in the strike, despite its claim that none had been destroyed




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Old video that was apparently geolocated near Snake Island. 45.3017100, 29.7524800
> 
> BTW the caesar was intact and there's a soldier running to it to move it from this position. Nice try though.



Bring the old video or get over with the bogus claims. Those Caesars are getting taken out on daily basis. The HIMARS story is not working, so all of you Russian haters have moved to "ATMACS" now. Give it a few weeks, and it will be neutralized as well.


----------



## aziqbal

Ali_Baba said:


> Crimea attack is Russia’s ‘biggest loss of aircraft in a single day since Second World War’​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crimea attack is Russia’s ‘biggest loss of aircraft in a single day since Second World War’
> 
> 
> Some analysts believe Moscow could have lost as many as 20 jets in the strike, despite its claim that none had been destroyed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk




poorly armed armed Taliban in tennis shoes wiped out the entire USN Harrier fleet in Afghanistan Camp Bastion in 2012 

so by that token Russia is extremely well against 50+ nations 









Camp Bastion attack could be U.S. Marine Corps Harrier fleet's ground zero


As already explained, the recent Taliban attack on Camp Bastion, that cost the U.S. the worst air loss to enemy fire in one day since the Vietnam War,




theaviationist.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557666402202521600


----------



## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> Hahaha I remember this 😂
> 
> 
> I love Americans. 😂 At the least they are honest.


And ignorant.. HaHaHa!

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## The SC

What specifically triggered the explosions is still highly controversial.
The largest explosion sites or craters are located almost exactly where warehouses or ammunition sites used to be.
Here is a "before and after" comparison.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557761276121686016
Only in July did the Russian ex-president Medvedev declare that a Ukrainian attack on Crimea would become "doomsday" for the Ukrainian government.
What was meant were retaliatory attacks on "decision centers" in Kyiv.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557384658660343808


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557704000245473280


----------



## Corax

gambit said:


> If you have to go nuclear, that does not say much about your military. That is like a mechanic whose skills are limited to basic maintenance and jump straight to scrapping the car, and nothing between. So yes, the US/NATO would make short work of the Russian military.



Spin it whichever way makes you sleep at night, the nuclear escalation makes it a moot point, otherwise your military would have done it already, and in the China theatre. Your country has only used nukes against non-nuclear power.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Bring the old video or get over with the bogus claims. Those Caesars are getting taken out on daily basis. The HIMARS story is not working, so all of you Russian haters have moved to "ATMACS" now. Give it a few weeks, and it will be neutralized as well.



LMAO like they have destroyed more himars and caesars that have been delivered,keep your BS.


----------



## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> Last time the chinese were laughing at the west that hard they went through the hundred years of humiliation….
> 
> I assume they are a lot smarter by now, a lot smarter then you.
> 
> Europe is their biggest trade partner, USA still has the strongest military force.
> Russia will be reduced to north korea with cheap gas/oil for what little scraps of support china throws at it. Why would they risk it all for russia?


Wake up Jose. You got nukes and we got nukes, if you want to go back 200 years ago, why not try 800 years ago during the Mongol invasion, technically Yuan is a sinized Mongol dynasty. Look at NATO now, they have no guts to even step in to defend Ukriane. You see any American soldiers? Russia is NK, then why doesn't NATO dare to even fight Russia. You guys are just using proxy Ukrainians.

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## gambit

Corax said:


> Spin it whichever way makes you sleep at night, *the nuclear escalation makes it a moot point, otherwise your military would have done it already*, and in the China theatre. Your country has only used nukes against non-nuclear power.


I agree with you there. Currently, the Russian conventional army is esteemed to be 50/50. Without the nuclear option, the US/NATO army would make it clear Russia is 90/10 shiddy.

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## S10

ZeGerman said:


> Last time the chinese were laughing at the west that hard they went through the hundred years of humiliation….
> 
> I assume they are a lot smarter by now, a lot smarter then you.
> 
> Europe is their biggest trade partner, USA still has the strongest military force.
> Russia will be reduced to north korea with cheap gas/oil for what little scraps of support china throws at it. Why would they risk it all for russia?


Last time you faced a corrupt dying dynasty ruling over an agrarian society of illiterate peasants. Today you are facing the largest industrial power on earth with 1.4 billion educated citizens.

If you want to give us the opportunity to whoop your *** in round 2, bring your troops over. We always love a good bout of revenge. Do you even have enough working ships to sail your tiny armies over?

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Wake up Jose. You got nukes and we got nukes, if you want to go back 200 years ago, why not try 800 years ago during the Mongol invasion, technically Yuan is a sinized Mongol dynasty. Look at NATO now, they have no guts to even step in to defend Ukriane. You see any American soldiers? Russia is NK, then why doesn't NATO dare to even fight Russia. You guys are just using proxy Ukrainians.


Ask yourself why there is no PLA boy and girl in Ukraine. Russia invades Ukraine you expect the US in Ukraine? You don’t know Ukraine is not in the NATO?


----------



## Soldier35

The episode of the battle of the Russian reconnaissance group of the Airborne Forces in Ukraine. During the patrol, the military discovered a stronghold of the Ukrainian army. The company commander decided to join the battle. With the support of fire from the BMD-2K-AU airborne combat vehicle and ATGM strikes, it was possible to destroy the stronghold of the Ukrainian army.






Video of Polish 155 mm self-propelled guns Krab in Ukraine. Ukraine purchased 54 of these self-propelled guns and 15 more transferred to Poland from storage. The self-propelled guns were developed in 2000, and there were many problems during its creation. The self-propelled guns can hardly be called Polish; many foreign units are used in the design. Chassis ACS K9 licensed production by Samsung, power plant German diesel engine MT 881 Ka-500, 1,000 hp. With. The howitzer barrel is manufactured by Rheinmetall from Germany. Depending on the type of ammunition, self-propelled guns can hit targets at a distance of 30 to 40 kilometers. The rate of fire of the installation is 6 rounds per minute, the practical rate of fire for long-term combat work is 2 rounds per minute. Howitzer ammunition 40 shells.

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## Viet

What’s happening?

A military base near Moscow is burning.

Did someone smoke and cause the fire?









Ukraine-Krieg: Mehrere russische Munitionslager zerstört – neue Zahlen veröffentlicht


Russland verzeichnet schwere Verluste im Ukraine-Krieg. Das ukrainische Verteidigungsministerium veröffentlicht die Statistik vom 10. August: der News-Ticker.




www.fr.de


----------



## MeFishToo

Soldier35 said:


> The episode of the battle of the Russian reconnaissance group of the Airborne Forces in Ukraine. During the patrol, the military discovered a stronghold of the Ukrainian army. The company commander decided to join the battle. With the support of fire from the BMD-2K-AU airborne combat vehicle and ATGM strikes, it was possible to destroy the stronghold of the Ukrainian army.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesnt make any sense to me. Reconnaissance unit discover ukrainian stronghold within the range of small arms fire and no returning fire from the stronghold? Looks more like a training mission.


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Ask yourself why there is no PLA boy and girl in Ukraine. Russia invades Ukraine you expect the US in Ukraine? You don’t know Ukraine is not in the NATO?


Hahahahah you might as well say Vietnam did not send soldiers to Ukraine, so US doesn't need to either. Lololol


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Hahahahah you might as well say Vietnam did not send soldiers to Ukraine, so US doesn't need to either. Lololol


I heard here thousands times why no US army in Ukraine? Why no German troops? People are either dumb or ignorant. Why Ukraine needs foreign armies at all? Ukraine needs weapons. Ukraine has general mobilization, the country can mobilize millions men and women to fight the Russians.

Dare Putin invades one of NATO countries then we will see what hell will break loose. Should it come to nuclear exchange I don’t think China will be spared.

You are the one of few who supports Russia war of aggression. People here don’t forget it.


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> I heard here thousands times why no US army in Ukraine? Why no German troops? People are either dumb or ignorant. Why Ukraine needs foreign armies at all? Ukraine needs weapons. Ukraine has general mobilization, the country can mobilize millions men and women to fight the Russians.
> 
> Dare Putin invades one of NATO countries then we will see what hell will break loose. Should it come to nuclear exchange I don’t think China will be spared.
> 
> You are the one of few who supports Russia war of aggression. People here don’t forget it.


You can give all the excuse you want. There is only ONE reason why NATO is not sending troops. They are afraid of Russia. All this hanky panky backdoor shit, it's all facade, no European dares to directly fight Russia.

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> You can give all the excuse you want. There is only ONE reason why NATO is not sending troops. They are afraid of Russia. All this hanky panky backdoor shit, it's all facade, no European dares to directly fight Russia.


Russia has nukes otherwise no country in Europe is afraid of. Russia conventional army under Putin is more propaganda. Russia or USSR was invaded by numerous European countries. Please learn history.
Russia is like NK, a poor country with nukes.
If Vietnam had nukes we would sleep better at nights.


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Russia has nukes otherwise no country in Europe is afraid of. Russia conventional army under Putin is more propaganda. Russia or USSR was invaded by numerous European countries. Please learn history.
> Russia is like NK, a poor country with nukes.
> If Vietnam had nukes we would sleep better at nights.



Equating NK with Russia is one of theost delusional thing I have ever heard, please ask NK to invade 20% of SK first.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Russia has nukes otherwise no country in Europe is afraid of. Russia conventional army under Putin is more propaganda. Russia or USSR was invaded by numerous European countries. Please learn history.
> Russia is like NK, a poor country with nukes.
> If Vietnam had nukes we would sleep better at nights.


To be fair, do NATO really need to send troop in Ukraine to deal with Russia?

Russia is now STALLED in all fronts, in the East, only minor movement was done and the last is 2 weeks ago when they took the power plant in East Donbas, major movement have not got any traction since they took Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk back in June. In the South, they are bogged down by Ukrainian counter offensive, Crimea is under attack, Kherson Oblast east of Dnieper river was under attack. There are no progress whatsoever at all since maybe May. 

Economic is crumbling, with inflation hit 34% last week, (compared to US's 7% and Australia 5.8%), no currency reserve left in their bank.

All these without a single NATO troop on the ground, which makes you wonder would Ukraine needed NATO to begin with. We may just sell them weapon when this is all over and they are holding Russia well on their own.

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## ZeGerman

S10 said:


> Last time you faced a corrupt dying dynasty ruling over an agrarian society of illiterate peasants. Today you are facing the largest industrial power on earth with 1.4 billion educated citizens.
> 
> If you want to give us the opportunity to whoop your *** in round 2, bring your troops over. We always love a good bout of revenge. Do you even have enough working ships to sail your tiny armies over?





S10 said:


> Last time you faced a corrupt dying dynasty ruling over an agrarian society of illiterate peasants. Today you are facing the largest industrial power on earth with 1.4 billion educated citizens.
> 
> If you want to give us the opportunity to whoop your *** in round 2, bring your troops over. We always love a good bout of revenge. Do you even have enough working ships to sail your tiny armies over?


“Were the kingdom of the middle, the rest are puny barbarians who should give us tribute!”. Again…we know how that ends up. 

Please…with all your educated population, do something about your lack of freedoms and maintain a peaceful rise instead of sable rattling around taiwan.



Han Patriot said:


> You can give all the excuse you want. There is only ONE reason why NATO is not sending troops. They are afraid of Russia. All this hanky panky backdoor shit, it's all facade, no European dares to directly fight Russia.


Nato is a defensive alliance on the rule of “an attack on one is an attack on all”
In case you did not notice…ukraine is not part of Nato. 

That no one is jumping to start a war with a nuclear power does not equal fear. 
With russias shit performance the image of “the bear” is also hugely degraded.

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## BHAN85

Main Spanish newspaper (El Mundo) talked yesterday about a attack with missiles in the Crimea blast.

Maybe they know something that the rest of mortals we ignore, or maybe they are just idiots.






Ucrania asesta a la aviación rusa su mayor golpe desde la II GM: al menos 7 aviones destruidos en Crimea


Las imágenes por satélite han mostrado este jueves el enorme destrozo que ha provocado el ataque ucraniano a la base aérea rusa de Saky, en la ocupada península de Crimea. La...




www.elmundo.es


----------



## aziqbal

Russians have reached the Centre of Bakhmut 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558044264965492737


dbc said:


> They infiltrated camp bastion wearing Afghan Army uniform not tennis shoes. Your confusion is understandable, perhaps you mistook the attack on Camp Bastion for the PNS Mehran incident. You know the one in which sandal clad TTP terrorist nearly destroyed the naval air HQ...or is it the Kamra base attack circa 2012, during which the PAF Erieye fleet was nearly wiped out.
> 
> British forces were responsible for perimeter security on that day at Camp Bastion - so overall, not something you'd wanna troll about.




What a retarded post 

Only 1 ERIEYE was lost rest were repaired 

And Kamra was not in a active way zone invading other countries so comparison is even more stupid

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557590241787236353

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558077485429948416


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> They can carpet bomb Kyiv in DCS if they want.
> 
> For real? Nope.......Kyiv is probably one of the most heavily AA defended area in Ukraine. Any slow bomber like Tu-95 and Tu-160 would be sitting duck. Plus, some years ago Russian Air Force rearmed those bombers into tactical bombing role, which mean they are geared to take long range missile only, not sure if they can revert back into Strategic Role.
> 
> The best they can do is to fire cruise missile from those bombers hundreds of miles away, otherwise they would have to travel 150 km into Kyiv and bomb Kyiv, it had never done so after the first month of war.


why carpet bomb , i bet if they really want to do that they still have lots of scud in some warehouse in Siberia . perfect for carpet bombing , cant hit a single target but if the target is in size of a city , i bey its very hard to miss it.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558075564174577664

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557657407131684864

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## Gomig-21

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557657407131684864



Hahaha, I saw this on another forum and talk about karma. You think his Russian captors will call his mother and tell her they have her kid who called Russian mothers to tell them their sons will die? He must be crapping his pants lol.

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## Vergennes

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557657407131684864



Nice propaganda though.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557743242417954816

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## MeFishToo

Russia firing Grad from civilian area in Popasna.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> To be fair, do NATO really need to send troop in Ukraine to deal with Russia?
> 
> Russia is now STALLED in all fronts, in the East, only minor movement was done and the last is 2 weeks ago when they took the power plant in East Donbas, major movement have not got any traction since they took Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk back in June. In the South, they are bogged down by Ukrainian counter offensive, Crimea is under attack, Kherson Oblast east of Dnieper river was under attack. There are no progress whatsoever at all since maybe May.
> 
> Economic is crumbling, with inflation hit 34% last week, (compared to US's 7% and Australia 5.8%), no currency reserve left in their bank.
> 
> All these without a single NATO troop on the ground, which makes you wonder would Ukraine needed NATO to begin with. We may just sell them weapon when this is all over and they are holding Russia well on their own.


Incredible how the Russians waste time, money, resources, lives on wars as if they have nothing else to do. Can they invent a solar powered fridge instead?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558069166095089664


Gomig-21 said:


> Hahaha, I saw this on another forum and talk about karma. You think his Russian captors will call his mother and tell her they have her kid who called Russian mothers to tell them their sons will die? He must be crapping his pants lol.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557873928474853377

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> why carpet bomb , i bet if they really want to do that they still have lots of scud in some warehouse in Siberia . perfect for carpet bombing , cant hit a single target but if the target is in size of a city , i bey its very hard to miss it.


First of all, if the Russia can do it, they would have done it already, it's been 6 months since this war. 

Secondly Russia don't have a lot of the Scud in Storage. Estimate between 150-300, it' can't do much to a city size of Kyiv. 

And finally, doing so will most definitely condemn by the West, they may supply their own tactical missile to Ukraine, ATACMS or Tomahawk missile both were previously not on table may be on table. Considering US have acknowledged that they had transferred HARM missile to Ukraine, nothing is impossible.

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Nice propaganda though.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557743242417954816


You should translate the post from Spanish to English, not everyone speak Spanish

Otra lección en guerra, cuidado con la propaganda (el video es del 9 de agosto y el canal de telegram de Zaliznyak sigue activo y actualizándose con nuevas fotos y videos incluso en el día de hoy):

Another lesson of war, about the propaganda (The video on the 9 August (the video about his capture) and the channel of Zaliznyak is still active and updating with new photos and video including today (today is 11 August))



Viet said:


> Incredible how the Russians waste time, money, resources, lives on wars as if they have nothing else to do. Can they invent a solar powered fridge instead?


Well, I used to think I know stuff and why people do what they do, I don't think I know anymore. 

Starting this war is not rational, unless senor Putin think the West would just let him get by doing this. And Finland/Sweden wouldn't be over reacted. 

This war doomed all Russian long term strategic except one, that is being a dog for the Chinese, that's probably the only thing Russia achieved in this war. 6 months in, still 20% of Ukraine captured (11% of those are Crimea and previous captured Donbas) Russia armed force name has been trashed beyond repair, there are no redemption battle for them to salvage their name, and Russia has been completely isolated by the west. Instead of being able to comfortably milk the West for money on their oil and gas, they did this......

Putin either seriously overestimate his own ability or seriously underestimated Ukraine, or China probably just sold Russia down the drain, if Putin thought China would help them.


----------



## 925boy

Viet said:


> Incredible how the Russians waste time, money, resources, lives on wars as if they have nothing else to do.


and you dont find it "incredible" how US spends money it doesnt have on wars it doesnt win?? At least Russia spends money it has on wars it will win.

smfh...i'm so happy i dont have your brain.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558073315897610240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558068469891047425

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## RektAtKasserinePass

MeFishToo said:


> Russia firing Grad from civilian area in Popasna.



So both sides are using civ infrastructure. Surprise surprise.


----------



## zectech

ZeGerman said:


> Last time the chinese were laughing at the west that hard they went through the hundred years of humiliation….
> 
> I assume they are a lot smarter by now, a lot smarter then you.
> 
> Europe is their biggest trade partner, USA still has the strongest military force.
> Russia will be reduced to north korea with cheap gas/oil for what little scraps of support china throws at it. Why would they risk it all for russia?



It is the "Kill Whitey" foreign policy of China. China: "Because Trump, kill whitey"

This would be like Europe's foreign policy being in 1300s and 1400s, "because Genghis Khan... obliterate China, Vietnam"! Which never happened, Europeans knew to blame the Mongols, not each East Asian. China became rabid after Trump and there is no cure. The EU hated Trump. And China wants to beat up the EU as revenge for Trump. Iranians are joining the show too.

China's godman, Putin, is a Trumper. So China is as dangerous as Trump, if not more. And China is a tool of the Pompeo cia to destroy the global economy to make the globe desperate to Washington to crash the euro and European economies to have a one global currency that the US cia started (bitcoin).









'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says


There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.




www.cnbc.com





Most Islamic countries are rabid pawns of Trump too with their Putinite support.

Gales of stupid laughter 5, 4, 3, 2...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558058518271467522

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558058518271467522



Slowly you will see some delinking --
Since Trump Era we've been in an official Cold War II but others are not saying it to keep some calm.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558041456329326594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558027343750467585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558032562311909378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558044375799717891

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## Corax

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558032562311909378



This guy has summed up the entire conflict as it actually is, away from all the hype and spin peddled by political leaders and fanboys on this forum.

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## Viet

A total visa ban is coming. Russians are forbidden to enter any country in Europe or the European Union. Other countries US, Canada, Japan will probably follow suit.

That will hurt Putin ergo. His intention was to bring back Russia to superpower status. Now gone.

Well at least common Russians can make vacations in Vietnam, China and Turkey.









Ukraine-Krieg im Newsblog | Kiew meldet Frontdurchbruch bei Cherson


Tag 187 seit Kriegsbeginn: Die Lage am AKW Saporischschja bleibt brenzlig.




www.t-online.de

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558123722380279809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558130046845468676


----------



## RektAtKasserinePass

Corax said:


> This guy has summed up the entire conflict as it actually is, away from all the hype and spin peddled by political leaders and fanboys on this forum.


It was pretty obvious anyway. Ukraine leadership is begging for weapons and foreign assistance.


----------



## Viet

Russia warns the West of continuing support for Ukraine. Because as they say it that will endanger the people in their countries.
As response Olaf Scholz says Germany will deliver much more and much more more weapons to Ukraine. More wide ranging, more lethal weapons.







Wird Deutschland die Ukraine weiterhin mit schweren Waffen - wie etwa der Panzerhaubitze 2000 - unterstützen? Bundeskanzler Scholz






Putin verantwortlich für Krieg: Scholz will Ukraine "sehr, sehr viele" Waffen liefern - n-tv.de


Bundeskanzler Scholz verspricht der Ukraine viele Waffenlieferungen in nächster Zeit. Konkret wird er nicht. Dafür macht er den russischen Präsidenten Putin für den Krieg verantwortlich. Die Abhängigkeit von Rohstoffimporten will Scholz mit Pipelineprojekten aus Spanien und Frankreich bekämpfen.



amp.n-tv.de


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> LMAO like they have destroyed more himars and caesars that have been delivered,keep your BS.



How about this? 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558041177965957121,


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558112870080122880

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558164576188997634


----------



## S10

ZeGerman said:


> “Were the kingdom of the middle, the rest are puny barbarians who should give us tribute!”. Again…we know how that ends up.
> 
> Please…with all your educated population, do something about your lack of freedoms and maintain a peaceful rise instead of sable rattling around taiwan.


Well then come back for round 2 then. Oh I forgot, you don't have the military capabilities to perform expeditionary campaigns anymore.

How we deal with CCP is our own problem, and so is Taiwan. China is happy to drown you in your own blood if your interfere.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558029533349089280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558029533349089280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557795767200501761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557827466357604352

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557983205931859969

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558042623641886720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558040513030537216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558021224407736321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558021490079154177

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2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558052301541150721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558159568349417477

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## The SC

Ukrainian army: We have the ability to bomb all Russian supply lines in the south
*@AlArabiya_Brk*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558000897174736897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558059633729839104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558075244061106179


----------



## ZeGerman

S10 said:


> Well then come back for round 2 then. Oh I forgot, you don't have the military capabilities to perform expeditionary campaigns anymore.
> 
> How we deal with CCP is our own problem, and so is Taiwan. China is happy to drown you in your own blood if your interfere.


You talk like a north korean or ayatollah iranian….i dont think you are chinese at all actually.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> First of all, if the Russia can do it, they would have done it already, it's been 6 months since this war.
> 
> Secondly Russia don't have a lot of the Scud in Storage. Estimate between 150-300, it' can't do much to a city size of Kyiv.
> 
> And finally, doing so will most definitely condemn by the West, they may supply their own tactical missile to Ukraine, ATACMS or Tomahawk missile both were previously not on table may be on table. Considering US have acknowledged that they had transferred HARM missile to Ukraine, nothing is impossible.


I doubt 150-300. they built those missiles at USSR era like candies and they didn't use them . they must be somewhere. the missile stored without any fuel or oxidizer so it can be stored for a lot of time and still be OK
and i really don't see any difference from carpet bombing and scud storm

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558018430124494853

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558112181140463616

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558194924922834945

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> I doubt 150-300. they built those missiles at USSR era like candies and they didn't use them . they must be somewhere. the missile stored without any fuel or oxidizer so it can be stored for a lot of time and still be OK
> and i really don't see any difference from carpet bombing and scud storm


First of all, they were built in Ukraine, not Russia.

Second of all, they discontinue SCUD like 20 years ago when they were replaced by Iskander, it's lucky if they have 200 stored somewhere they can use.

Thirdly, you have to be blind to not see the different between SCUD storm and carpet bombing. A SCUD carries 600-900kg (Depends on type) warhead. A B-52 carrying 18-24 Mk-84 2000lbs bomb (24 with external pylon), 50+ Mk-82 500lbs bomb. Which mean each B-52 payload would be equal to 48-60 SCUD missile. 4 B-52H would probably get the entire payload of 300 SCUD. Can you see the different?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [8/11/2022 4:45 PM]
🗓 Top News Today

⚡️ Russian Defence Minister General of the Army Sergei Shoigu (https://****/mod_russia_en/3230)has made working visits to defence industry enterprises in the Moscow and Tula regions, during which he checked the progress of the state defence order.

💥 Active Allied Forces' offensive operations (https://****/mod_russia_en/3225) have eliminated more than 50 per cent of the personnel in 14th and 66th mechanised brigades of AFU in Artemovsk and Avdeyevka directions. Mass desertions and self-willed abandonment of positions by the nationalists are being recorded.

💥 As part of counter-battery warfare (https://****/mod_russia_en/3225), 3 platoons of Grad multiple-launch rocket systems, 2 artillery platoons of Acatsiya guns and 3 platoons of D-30 howitzers have been suppressed at firing positions in Umanskoye, Krasnogorovka and Novgorodskoye in Donetsk People's Republic.

📹 Footage of combat operation of Mi-28 multipurpose attack helicopter crews (https://****/mod_russia_en/3222)of Western MD’s army aviation in the special military operation zone, of Russian paratroopers during reconnaissance and search operations (https://****/mod_russia_en/3224), as well as of the live fire of Grad multiple rocket launcher systems (https://****/mod_russia_en/3223)of the self-propelled artillery regiment of the Central Military District have been published.

⚠️ Units of the 44th Artillery Brigade of AFU shelled the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant from Nikopol' using 152-mm guns. (https://****/mod_russia_en/3238)The strikes partially damaged the auxiliary thermal power plant and the equipment of the splash pools of the nuclear reactor cooling system. Only thanks to the skilled, competent and effective actions of the units of the Russian Armed Forces in covering the nuclear power facility, the critical infrastructure of the nuclear power plant was not affected.

⚠️ Russian Federation's Joint Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response continues to record numerous facts of criminal actions by Kiev regime against civilians (https://****/mod_russia_en/3239), as well as the use of civilian infrastructure for military purposes by Ukrainian armed formations.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine
@mod_russia_en

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> First of all, they were built in Ukraine, not Russia.
> 
> Second of all, they discontinue SCUD like 20 years ago when they were replaced by Iskander, it's lucky if they have 200 stored somewhere they can use.
> 
> Thirdly, you have to be blind to not see the different between SCUD storm and carpet bombing. A SCUD carries 600-900kg (Depends on type) warhead. A B-52 carrying 18-24 Mk-84 2000kg bomb (24 with external pylon), 50+ Mk-82 500kg bomb. Which mean each B-52 payload would be equal to 48-60 SCUD missile. 4 B-52H would probably get the entire payload of 300 SCUD. Can you see the different?
> 
> View attachment 870158


you see , as a person who first handily experienced scuds destruction and destruction made by mk-82 250kg bombs by 500kg you probably meant mk-83 500kg bombs i assure you there is a lot difference there.
by the way b-52 is a relic of past with its 15km max altitude 800km cruise speed and literally no maneuverability and its capability to be seen like a Christmas tree on any radar , well its better only be used for delivering cruise missiles

and its correct that they stopped producing them 20 years ago , but also they didn't used them either

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558040848490811394
▫️Operational-tactical aircraft are flown from temporary airfields to accomplish their missions.

▫️Su-35S fighter crews continue to destroy enemy targets using a wide range of aerial weapons in the course of flight missions.

▫️The crews use precision guided missiles of various air-to-air and air-to-surface classes to destroy AFU aircraft, radar stations and air defence complexes.

▫️The aircraft are operated during daylight hours and at night in all weather conditions.

@mod_russia_en

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> you see , as a person who first handily experienced scuds destruction and destruction made by mk-82 250kg bombs by 500kg you probably meant mk-83 500kg bombs i assure you there is a lot difference there.
> by the way b-52 is a relic of past with its 15km max altitude 800km cruise speed and literally no maneuverability and its capability to be seen like a Christmas tree on any radar , well its better only be used for delivering cruise missiles
> 
> and its correct that they stopped producing them 20 years ago , but also they didn't used them either


Your question is what is the different between SCUD Storm and Carpet Bombing? Not whether or not Russia or US can effective do Carpet Bombing.

Also, I meant Mk 82 and Mk 84, I just messed up the unit





__





Mark 82 bomb - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org








__





Mark 84 bomb - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





As for whether or not Carpet Bombing is effective, if this is US, it is, because we will have air superiority and we don't just fly B-52 alone, we will fly Iron-hand and Wild Weasel mission on enemy AA defence, making sure if they turn on their radar, they will eat HARM. That's why we still use B-52 like they would back in the 60s. For the Russian, I have already stated my opinion.

And finally, don't know if you know, explosive, like every chemical, have use by date. Most explosive shelf-life expired in 15-20 years. And then you also have electrical circuitry, all these have to properly maintain in order for them to be use after in storage for some time. It's harder to maintain like you said, it's not just pull them out of storage and it will still be mint condition. You won't be expected to pull a car out of 20 years storage and start it in the first go, let alone missile,


And for a person who had order both carpet bombing and copperhead strike, I know the different too


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558206722208108544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558172121414729728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558172127878172674

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> As for whether or not Carpet Bombing is effective, if this is US, it is, because we will have air superiority and we don't just fly B-52 alone, we will fly Iron-hand and Wild Weasel mission on enemy AA defence, making sure if they turn on their radar, they will eat HARM.


remember , Yugoslavia and F117, remember Iran and RQ-4 , there are air defense system that don't need radar for getting a lock on the aircraft or the Radar can be turned on just before or after firing the missile.


jhungary said:


> And finally, don't know if you know, explosive, like every chemical, have use by date. Most explosive shelf-life expired in 15-20 years. And then you also have electrical circuitry, all these have to properly maintain in order for them to be use after in storage for some time.


the warhead will be kept separately in storage and the part about electronics if they are not powered is debatable


jhungary said:


> You won't be expected to pull a car out of 20 years storage and start it in the first go, let alone missile,


depend on storage , i expect just change battery acid and car oil and it work after fueling it , if the storage is not a barn.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> remember , Yugoslavia and F117, remember Iran and RQ-4 , there are air defense system that don't need radar for getting a lock on the aircraft or the Radar can be turned on just before or after firing the missile.



That's why you people can never win a war,

You don't expect to fight a war without casualty, We expected to lose some of the aircraft when we fight, if you think taking one F-117 (Which was 18 years old tech by the time it was shot down by the way) and RQ-4 would stop the US Air Force. Well, you probably need to think again. We will just go at you time and time again until you either run out of radar or you are too afraid to switch them on.

In WW2, we lost 10,000 B-17 and B-24, over 100,000 crew lost to keep bombing Germany daylight. We lost 3000 fix wing and 30 B-52 to fly arc light mission in Vietnam. That's how you dominate the sky. If you expect to fight a war without any casualty, then probably you should never be in the Military.

You may get a few F-16, or B-52. But if a few of those get thru, that lost would have been justified.



Hack-Hook said:


> the warhead will be kept separately in storage and the part about electronics if they are not powered is debatable
> 
> depend on storage , i expect just change battery acid and car oil and it work after fueling it , if the storage is not a barn.



That's not how this work. Well, at least if this was a US Missile.

You don't break down the warhead because you will expose the circuitry and you also run a risk that when you put the warhead back in the missile it will fry your circuit. That's why we keep the Engine on the plane when we store them in Davis-Monthan. Maybe Russian stuff are a lot easier to maintain? I don't know.

and lol, you probably never restore old car before....Oil change and battery may work if you store for a few year (probably 5 or less) 20? You will most likely need an engine rebuilt or at least a dissemble and wash if you want it to function properly. Unless you are storing them in one of those Intel Facilities that store Computer CPUs.

And finally, again, do you think if Russia have 300+ usable Scud, wouldn't they had use them already? Instead of using repurposed S-300 missile? Dude, there is a reason why they didn't months into the war.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

Viet said:


> According to Ukraine defense, someone was smoking, then accidentally blowed up the air base.
> 
> So never smoke near a bomb!
> 
> I think it’s a joke but you never know. Like the sinking of the Moskva. It was a storm that ignited the fire onboard. When trying to stop the fire they blowed up the ship.


no war going on in Ukraine either: its a massive earthquake caused by a lot of smokers 



S10 said:


> Last time you faced a corrupt dying dynasty ruling over an agrarian society of illiterate peasants. Today you are facing the largest industrial power on earth with 1.4 billion educated citizens.
> 
> If you want to give us the opportunity to whoop your *** in round 2, bring your troops over. We always love a good bout of revenge. Do you even have enough working ships to sail your tiny armies over?


May be round #2 should be tried against Vietnam first and teach them a lesson? After 20 years of thrashing by US B-52s, in 1979 the Vietnamese still managed to draw a stalemate with China in the border. Want to start teaching a lesson in your backyard first?

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## S10

ZeGerman said:


> You talk like a north korean or ayatollah iranian….i dont think you are chinese at all actually.


Oh I'm all about taking revenge against Europeans if they decide to interfere again. If that doesn't sit well with you, piss off and stay in your corner of the globe.

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> First of all, they were built in Ukraine, not Russia.
> 
> Second of all, they discontinue SCUD like 20 years ago when they were replaced by Iskander, it's lucky if they have 200 stored somewhere they can use.
> 
> Thirdly, you have to be blind to not see the different between SCUD storm and carpet bombing. A SCUD carries 600-900kg (Depends on type) warhead. A B-52 carrying 18-24 Mk-84 2000lbs bomb (24 with external pylon), 50+ Mk-82 500lbs bomb. Which mean each B-52 payload would be equal to 48-60 SCUD missile. 4 B-52H would probably get the entire payload of 300 SCUD. Can you see the different?
> 
> View attachment 870158



B-52 is a monter truck no doubt. And still going strong after seven decades.

Slight offtopic but is there any plan to replace the B-52s? I mean you guys have the Lancer and new Raider but that wont be in great numbers like Stratofortresses, i assume?


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You don't expect to fight a war without casualty, We expected to lose some of the aircraft when we fight, if you think taking one F-117 (Which was 18 years old tech by the time it was shot down by the way) and RQ-4 would stop the US Air Force. Well, you probably need to think again. We will just go at you time and time again until you either run out of radar or you are too afraid to switch them on.


the tech used to take the plane down was a lot older than 18 year old
and why you don't get it . you said you use sead airplanes to destroy enemy air defense radar , i pointed to you that its right that having radars are nice but there are air defense assets that can work without that radar and don't need it 
what it has to do with expecting casualties . by the way eastern countries tolerate casualties a lot better than western ones after all its USA that when face casualties have problem back home.


jhungary said:


> In WW2, we lost 10,000 B-17 and B-24, over 100,000 crew lost to keep bombing Germany daylight. We lost 3000 fix wing and 30 B-52 to fly arc light mission in Vietnam. That's how you dominate the sky. If you expect to fight a war without any casualty, then probably you should never be in the Military.


in Vietnam you lost how much 10000 soldier, 20000 soldier and you knew what happened , what about Afghanistan . went the time your people could tolerate casualties


jhungary said:


> And finally, again, do you think if Russia have 300+ usable Scud, wouldn't they had use them already? Instead of using repurposed S-300 missile? Dude, there is a reason why they didn't months into the war.


maybe they are not desperate enough to do so



jhungary said:


> That's not how this work. Well, at least if this was a US Missile.
> 
> You don't break down the warhead because you will expose the circuitry and you also run a risk that when you put the warhead back in the missile it will fry your circuit. That's why we keep the Engine on the plane when we store them in Davis-Monthan. Maybe Russian stuff are a lot easier to maintain? I don't know.


don't knew we store the warhead separately and warhead of scud don't have that much of circuity.


jhungary said:


> and lol, you probably never restore old car before....Oil change and battery may work if you store for a few year (probably 5 or less) 20? You will most likely need an engine rebuilt or at least a dissemble and wash if you want it to function properly. Unless you are storing them in one of those Intel Facilities that store Computer CPUs.


as i said depend on how you store it , if the car is in a dry place away from humidity and sun that much is enough to turn it on , is it in optimal situation certainly not .but it don\t need an engine rebuild . now if the car is stored in a car graveyard thats another matter .


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## Gomig-21

Hack-Hook said:


> the tech used to take the plane down was a lot older than 18 year old
> and why you don't get it . you said you use sead airplanes to destroy enemy air defense radar , i pointed to you that its right that having radars are nice but there are air defense assets that can work without that radar and don't need it
> what it has to do with expecting casualties . by the way eastern countries tolerate casualties a lot better than western ones after all its USA that when face casualties have problem back home.



Yeah he lost me on that one, too. You were referring to radars and specifically SEAD related missions and nothing to do with casualties. I think he just misunderstood you and was thinking something else, but good discussion and I agree with your points.


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558245849720913921
The area in yellow is what is left of Donbass for Russia to take over and achieve it's objective , all those arguments of Russia is losing are futile , once that small area is taken Russia will stop it's advances and solidify the taken area , and for every Ukrainian offensive they will target Kiev

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558101064678875145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558090527110832134

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558090527110832134

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557978021268709376

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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> ...there are air defense assets that can work without that radar and don't need it


Such as...???


----------



## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> ...there are air defense system that don't need radar for getting a lock on the aircraft...


Such as...???



Hack-Hook said:


> or the Radar can be turned on just before or after firing the missile.


Tactically, this is a dubious technique, even at the speed of light.

Assuming the antenna is the 360 deg rotating type, for now. The faster the rotation, the more accurate target update *AFTER* lock. On the other hand, the slower the rotation, the longer the 'dwell time' of the beam on a body which improve the odds of acquiring a target in the first place. Surveillance radar rotation speed is best below the mid-20s rpm, something like between 10 - 25.





__





Loading…






www.leonardo.com





ATCR 33S provides en-route and terminal management area services. It is an S-band air traffic control radar. The ATCR 33S is designed to be compliant with the international standards for PSR sensors. Functional and performance characteristics meet the requirements issued by ICAO and EUROCONTROL.​
Key feature​• Designed for unattended 24 hour operation​• MTTR of 20 minutes​• Range - 60nm to 100nm​• *Rotation – 12rpm or 15rpm*​• Availability better than 99.999%​• Emission Control function​• Adaptive selection among four MTD filters​• Extensive mapping techniques for CFAR​• Fully coherent A-MTD​• Automatic antenna beam switching for ground clutter suppression​
Surveillance antenna rotate at 12-15 rpm. Targeting antenna doubles or more that. But the Targeting antenna depends on the Surveillance antenna and the Surveillance antenna is the one you turn on/off in trying to escape SEAD. In SEAD/DEAD, we strike whichever transmit.

But when people thinks on/off, they think literally on/off. That is *NOT* how it works. Can you lock on a body with just one rotation? Yes, if the body is on a fixed test pole. But if there is a spatial-time translation body, fancy language for moving, you need several *SECONDS* or even *MINUTES* of rotation for the radar computer to calculate where the target is going. That is what they meant for on/off.

To you, I am a moving body, but to me, you are a fixed body. That mean your Surveillance and Targeting radars may need up to several minutes to lock on to me, but my HARM needs just a few *ROTATIONS*, not time, from you to acquire you. So if there are SEAD/DEAD fighters over you, any of them can get to you in short order to moment you transmit.

Here is the Pantsir...









Pantsir-S1


Pantsir-S1 (Russian: Панцирь-С1, NATO reporting name SA-22 Greyhound) is a combined short to medium range surface-to-air missile and anti-aircraft artillery weapon system produced by KBP of Tula, Russia. The system is a further development of SA-19/SA-N-11 and represents the latest air defence...




military-history.fandom.com





Reaction time: 4–6 seconds (including target acquisition and firing first missile),​
My HARM need just one second to detect you. I may need to maneuver to get into a favorable launch position, but essentially, I got your ground position. And no one does SEAD/DEAD better than US.

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## Gomig-21

gambit said:


> But when people thinks on/off, they think literally on/off. That is *NOT* how it works. Can you lock on a body with just one rotation? Yes, if the body is on a fixed test pole. But if there is a spatial-time translation body, fancy language for moving, you need several *SECONDS* or even *MINUTES* of rotation for the radar computer to calculate where the target is going. That is what they meant for on/off.



This was exactly what the North Vietnamese SAM regiments & battalions were doing on the outskirts of Hanoi during the Vietnam war as they were defending the city from F-4 Phantoms & A-4 Skyhawks bombardments which ended up introducing the Wild Weasels SEAD F-100 Super Sabers that would escort the F-4s & Skyhawks as decoys to fool the turning on and off of the NV SAM radar stations that were doing exactly that. The Weasels would come into radar range of mostly NV SA-2 SAMs that would then turn one radar on then turn it off, while simultaneously or shortly after turn another one on somewhere else and keep that going to fool the Wild Weasels. Listening the F-100 Super Saber pilots talk about that on the Military Channel when it was active was very interesting.

They also talked about trying to stay as far as possible when attempting to take out the SAM units by lobbying their dumb bombs to get more distance out of them. Some fascinating stuff.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558156418791968769
▫️The Head of the Military Department was presented with the latest developments in the field of armoured vehicles and weapons, and was told on options for upgrading equipment in service with the Russian army.

▫️Minister of Defence inspected the latest models of armament, military and special equipment produced at the enterprises.

▫️Sergei Shoigu was also shown the technological process and production lines at which various military equipment is assembled.

▫️Minister of Defence held working meetings with the leadership of the enterprises and the relevant military administration bodies.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558076151263887364

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> the tech used to take the plane down was a lot older than 18 year old
> and why you don't get it . you said you use sead airplanes to destroy enemy air defense radar , i pointed to you that its right that having radars are nice but there are air defense assets that can work without that radar and don't need it
> what it has to do with expecting casualties . by the way eastern countries tolerate casualties a lot better than western ones after all its USA that when face casualties have problem back home.



It's you who don't get it.

No tech is perfect, as I said, you *DON'T EXPECT HIGH TECH MEANS YOU WILL FLY ABOVE DANGER*. You ALWAYS expect casualty. It's not that 1 single sorties of SEAD and Iron-Hand that stop your radar from going. It's 24/7 coverage of those plane, that make you think twice before you turn on the radar.

Of course, you can try to fight us, and we may take some loses, but that is the way war is fought, be it with the US, Russia or China. The capability we had is not to send a couple of squadrons of F-16 to do SEAD, the ability we had is we can do this all day long and couple with attack aircraft that can neutral the threat ANYTIME, which is the way you contest Air Superiority. We forced you to turn off the radar, or turn it on to fight us so we can destroy you. That is what Gaining Air Superiority means.

And you can't work AA system without Radar, unless you are talking about short range Infrared Homing Missile........

And no, if you think Western Country have a problem facing casualty, that would be a big mistake, it really depends on how you see it. All it takes is a reason for war, and that happened in both side of the world, it's not a Eastern thing vs the Western thing, if you think American is not willing to die for a clause, then you probably will need to rethink your way of thinking.



Hack-Hook said:


> in Vietnam you lost how much 10000 soldier, 20000 soldier and you knew what happened , what about Afghanistan . went the time your people could tolerate casualties



Dude, it's the time, not the lost that draw American back, and in Afghanistan case, it's Donald Trump, American Public wanted to stay in Afghanistan,









The War In Afghanistan: A Polling Post-Mortem


In an April 2021 Fox News poll, 37% of registered voters said the US should remove all troops from Afghanistan, while 50% said some should remain for counterterrorism purposes. When the question is asked as a straight stay or go, Americans want to leave.




www.forbes.com





Only 37% of the people who polled wanted Troop completely removed from Afghanistan. And this is done BEFORE Kabul Collapse.



Hack-Hook said:


> maybe they are not desperate enough to do so



Not desperate to do so but desperate enough to repurpose S-300 into ground attack role? Sure, let's try to make a SAM with 200KG warhead worked at ground attack than using the "Ready to Go" (As per you) SCUD that is in storage??



Hack-Hook said:


> don't knew we store the warhead separately and warhead of scud don't have that much of circuity.
> 
> as i said depend on how you store it , if the car is in a dry place away from humidity and sun that much is enough to turn it on , is it in optimal situation certainly not .but it don\t need an engine rebuild . now if the car is stored in a car graveyard thats another matter .



Again, I don't know about SCUD, we store our plane with engine attached and missile with warhead attached (without fuze of course)

And again, you are talking about a car that had not moved at all for 20 years. Not just store it somewhere and turn it on once in a while. Moving part needs lubrication, and Lube dissolve and crud over time, if you had not turn on an engine in 20 years, that lub is going to be beyond "Milkshake" it will be just some crud laying on the engine surface, if you turn on that engine with those thing in there, it will destory your engine.

that is even before you have potential heat damage, weather effect and natural deterioration and so on



Wergeland said:


> B-52 is a monter truck no doubt. And still going strong after seven decades.
> 
> Slight offtopic but is there any plan to replace the B-52s? I mean you guys have the Lancer and new Raider but that wont be in great numbers like Stratofortresses, i assume?



The Air Force planned to acquire 100 B-21 Raider to replace all Strategic Bomber (Included B-52, B-1 and B-2) Considering there are about 80 B-52H left in service and roughly the same number of B-1 and 20 B-2.


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> Such as...???
> 
> 
> Tactically, this is a dubious technique, even at the speed of light.
> 
> Assuming the antenna is the 360 deg rotating type, for now. The faster the rotation, the more accurate target update *AFTER* lock. On the other hand, the slower the rotation, the longer the 'dwell time' of the beam on a body which improve the odds of acquiring a target in the first place. Surveillance radar rotation speed is best below the mid-20s rpm, something like between 10 - 25.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.leonardo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ATCR 33S provides en-route and terminal management area services. It is an S-band air traffic control radar. The ATCR 33S is designed to be compliant with the international standards for PSR sensors. Functional and performance characteristics meet the requirements issued by ICAO and EUROCONTROL.​
> Key feature​• Designed for unattended 24 hour operation​• MTTR of 20 minutes​• Range - 60nm to 100nm​• *Rotation – 12rpm or 15rpm*​• Availability better than 99.999%​• Emission Control function​• Adaptive selection among four MTD filters​• Extensive mapping techniques for CFAR​• Fully coherent A-MTD​• Automatic antenna beam switching for ground clutter suppression​
> Surveillance antenna rotate at 12-15 rpm. Targeting antenna doubles or more that. But the Targeting antenna depends on the Surveillance antenna and the Surveillance antenna is the one you turn on/off in trying to escape SEAD. In SEAD/DEAD, we strike whichever transmit.
> 
> But when people thinks on/off, they think literally on/off. That is *NOT* how it works. Can you lock on a body with just one rotation? Yes, if the body is on a fixed test pole. But if there is a spatial-time translation body, fancy language for moving, you need several *SECONDS* or even *MINUTES* of rotation for the radar computer to calculate where the target is going. That is what they meant for on/off.
> 
> To you, I am a moving body, but to me, you are a fixed body. That mean your Surveillance and Targeting radars may need up to several minutes to lock on to me, but my HARM needs just a few *ROTATIONS*, not time, from you to acquire you. So if there are SEAD/DEAD fighters over you, any of them can get to you in short order to moment you transmit.
> 
> Here is the Pantsir...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pantsir-S1
> 
> 
> Pantsir-S1 (Russian: Панцирь-С1, NATO reporting name SA-22 Greyhound) is a combined short to medium range surface-to-air missile and anti-aircraft artillery weapon system produced by KBP of Tula, Russia. The system is a further development of SA-19/SA-N-11 and represents the latest air defence...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> military-history.fandom.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reaction time: 4–6 seconds (including target acquisition and firing first missile),​
> My HARM need just one second to detect you. I may need to maneuver to get into a favorable launch position, but essentially, I got your ground position. And no one does SEAD/DEAD better than US.


lol, whenever I see people saying "You can just turn on the radar" like there is a on/off button like my light switch, switch it and the light turn on.......I laugh, and then I say, can you turn on your computer and immediately get to work?

Set aside the program and OS to boot, let's say that take less than 1 second (They are not) people don't know a radar have to be able to complete at least 1 full sweep before they can detect any incoming air threat. That's because you basically pulse microwave to the target and wait for it to bounce back to your receiver. Radar can't work until 1 full sweep so they can "arrest" the wave and catch the threat. 

But then how many people really did operate an Air Defence Radar or even looked at a Radar Screen in his life? I am guessing you and me are the dying breed.



Gomig-21 said:


> Yeah he lost me on that one, too. You were referring to radars and specifically SEAD related missions and nothing to do with casualties. I think he just misunderstood you and was thinking something else, but good discussion and I agree with your points.


I was saying you cannot expect to win a war (or in this case, win air superiority) without any lost. Both in the air and on ground.

It's my job to bait you and attack you, it is up to you to start your defence. If you fight us, you may get some of my plane, but the rest will destroy you, thus taking that capability out, and if you don't fight us, we keep on doing them so we can fly anytime until you decided to fight us. You keep your pressure up. It's not a single sortie matter.

SEAD is not just firing a beam riding missile (By the way, his understand of how Air Defence system works are all wrong as me and @gambit explained) it's about how much you are willing to lose to carry out those mission and how much that benefit your fight to gain Air Superiority. 

That is what I think why Russia failed to gain Air Superiority in this war, really, they don't try to fight the Ukrainian Air and Ground defence.


----------



## patero

jhungary said:


> *But then how many people really did operate an Air Defence Radar or even looked at a Radar Screen in his life? I am guessing you and me are the dying breed.*


How long a shift would an operator usually be on station for? I've heard it said that it is very difficult to maintain concentration for long periods and depending on the interface almost like getting hypnotized. One theory posited on the Moskva sinking was that the radar operators experienced such fatigue (and/or were possibly asleep), archived training footage of the Moskva showed the interfaces these operators used were very dated. Would more modern equipment compensate to alleviate this?


----------



## RescueRanger

dbc said:


> They infiltrated camp bastion wearing Afghan Army uniform not tennis shoes. Your confusion is understandable, perhaps you mistook the attack on Camp Bastion for the PNS Mehran incident. You know the one in which sandal clad TTP terrorist nearly destroyed the naval air HQ...or is it the Kamra base attack circa 2012, during which the PAF Erieye fleet was nearly wiped out.
> 
> British forces were responsible for perimeter security on that day at Camp Bastion - so overall, not something you'd wanna troll about.





> You know the one in which sandal clad TTP terrorist


Going to have to challenge you there. My cousin was part of the QRF that sent those fuckers who attacked PAF Minhas straight to hell.

All terrorists were clad in fatigues resembling that of the Pakistan Army and were armed with RPGs, SMGs, RGD-5's and each had a suicide vest consisting of 7 pounds of ANFO.











The attack was initiated at 0130hrs and lasted 5 hours due to the size of the complex that comprises Kamra.

Contrary to what you may or may not have read - the base was not "nearly destroyed" was it was operational 11 hours after incident.

One soldier manning a watch tower was martyred and we lost one aircraft. One too many but still, a lot of embellishment in your post.

I could go on, seeing as two of my relatives were part of the QRF that responded to the incident. But we are not here to discuss Pakistan, so let's just move on.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

patero said:


> How long a shift would an operator usually be on station for? I've heard it said that it is very difficult to maintain concentration for long periods and depending on the interface almost like getting hypnotized. One theory posited on the Moskva sinking was that the radar operators experienced such fatigue (and/or were possibly asleep), archived training footage of the Moskva showed the interfaces these operators used were very dated. Would more modern equipment compensate to alleviate this?


There are always 2 Radar Tech working on the one screen. When I was running my TOC in Afghanistan, we have 3 shifts with 8 hours per shift, but most of the time if we have an op going on, you stay on because you don't need to rely on info for the next shift. Usually, 1 person mark down event when the other watch the screen. And rotate every 2 or 3 hours. 

Fatigue is a problem, but not really fatal, a bigger problem is to chart everything that coming and going off your screen, unlike airborne radar (like what Gambit used to) Ground radar pick up all kind of shit because it was placed closer to earth. And you will have to match EVERY event whether or not they are documented. And most of them in war are not. So what you essentially have to do is to mark down all event (blips on the screen) and then verify each event, you can't just call out hostile incoming when it was a returning UH-60 Casevac flying in ferrying a patient without telling you they are coming. You need to contact the people that blip belong to and verify with daily event chart to weed out all friendly activities. Only when you can't match it with anything, you can start calling that a hostile. That takes time. Time you don't have if you are being attacked. 

This is what I think that got the Moskva by the way, Ukrainian may fly drones or something to try to overwhelm the Russian radar. Outside visual range, all you can see is a blip and how fast it was moving. You don't know if that is a drone, a plane or even were it enemy or friends. The more target that shows up, the more work piled on the radar crew. And unless you launch at every unknown target and bring them all down, it would have to verify somehow. And again, that take time. And all you need is for the Radar tech to look away from the screen at the right moment. And if you put enough target in the air, that bound to happen....

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Going to have to challenge you there. My cousin was part of the QRF that sent those fuckers who attacked PAF Minhas straight to hell.
> 
> All terrorists were clad in fatigues resembling that of the Pakistan Army and were armed with RPGs, SMGs, RGD-5's and each had a suicide vest consisting of 7 pounds of ANFO.
> 
> View attachment 870202
> 
> View attachment 870203
> 
> 
> The attack was initiated at 0130hrs and lasted 5 hours due to the size of the complex that comprises Kamra.
> 
> Contrary to what you may or may not have read - the base was not "nearly destroyed" was it was operational 11 hours after incident.
> 
> One soldier manning a watch tower was martyred and we lost one aircraft. One too many but still, a lot of embellishment in your post.
> 
> I could go on, seeing as two of my relatives were part of the QRF that responded to the incident. But we are not here to discuss Pakistan, so let's just move on.


Most of these attacks have footprint of inside job.

When I was in Afghan, we were involved in one Intel Ops about an Attack on a Local and ISAF base. We (Not me personally) bust down a Taliban safehouse and found ANA uniform and ID card as well as weapon and suicide vest. All Taliban were killed (IIRC it was 7) and we trace the ID back to their original owner and they were all murdered and found out their unit have 8 members. And you probably can guess the rest.

People who said Taliban is unsophisticated bunch of pleasant generally didn't know shit about Taliban at all. This is what they want to have themselves portraited mainly to make you drop your guard. Most of these people are highly educated and their war plan are very sound and probably comparable to regular army level.

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## PakAlp

Russia-Ukraine war: invasion ‘starting to fail’ and Russian forces suffering huge losses, says UK – as it happened


At a meeting of European defence ministers, Ben Wallace says Russia ‘unlikely to ever succeed in occupying Ukraine’




www.theguardian.com













Ukraine war: Crimea blasts significantly hit Russian navy - UK


The Ministry of Defence says the blasts have "significantly degraded" Moscow's Black Sea Fleet.



www.bbc.com













Putin's 'defeat' — Russia following same path as USSR in Afghanistan


VLADIMIR PUTIN's military losses in Ukraine could spark a crisis similar to the one faced by the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, a former KGB spy warned.




www.express.co.uk


----------



## dbc

RescueRanger said:


> Going to have to challenge you there. My cousin was part of the QRF that sent those fuckers who attacked PAF Minhas straight to hell.
> 
> All terrorists were clad in fatigues resembling that of the Pakistan Army and were armed with RPGs, SMGs, RGD-5's and each had a suicide vest consisting of 7 pounds of ANFO.
> 
> View attachment 870202
> 
> View attachment 870203
> 
> 
> The attack was initiated at 0130hrs and lasted 5 hours due to the size of the complex that comprises Kamra.
> 
> Contrary to what you may or may not have read - the base was not "nearly destroyed" was it was operational 11 hours after incident.
> 
> One soldier manning a watch tower was martyred and we lost one aircraft. One too many but still, a lot of embellishment in your post.
> 
> I could go on, seeing as two of my relatives were part of the QRF that responded to the incident. But we are not here to discuss Pakistan, so let's just move on.


fair enough, I was responding to a troll citing online sources to let him know the camp Bastion incident wasn't due to gross incompetence of the USMC and could and did happen elsewhere.I understand of the three Erieye's on base one was destroyed and two were damaged. So I believe my earlier statement was accurate when I said the fleet of PAF Erieye based in Kamra was *nearly* destroyed. But you're right there are no parallels between the attack in Crimea and Camp Bastion and is off-topic here.

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## MH.Yang

Nazis in Ukraine kick Indian students.

In fact, the whole of Eastern Europe is full of racists, and all non white students and tourists are often bullied by Eastern Europeans.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Such as...???


such as 3rd of khordad that can use E/O to fire the missile for targets up to 70/75km away and use missile onboard radars activated at last second of flight for precise targeting when the missile dive. remember RQ-4 . or short range system like majid that pick up target by E/O and fire a heat seeking missile toward it iran missile 358 that you fire it and it scan for target ,itself and the operator only need to knew an airplane is in vicinity .
or do you recall f-117 , the s-125 that shot it down only operated less than 17 second , they fired the missiles then turned on their system

today E/O systems are far more robust than the ones in 80s and 90s and actually are viable option for such scenarios



gambit said:


> My HARM need just one second to detect you. I may need to maneuver to get into a favorable launch position, but essentially, I got your ground position. And no one does SEAD/DEAD better than US.


your HARM need time to reach me . and as i said in case of RQ-4 the only radar that worked was the one on the missile , fat chance that HARM can lock onto it specially that it activated just before the missile dive


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> And you can't work AA system without Radar, unless you are talking about short range Infrared Homing Missile........


well if 75km is short for you 3rd of Khordad and Bavar-373 can pick up targets up to 75km away wit their E/O . if they turn on radar their detection range will be twice



jhungary said:


> Not desperate to do so but desperate enough to repurpose S-300 into ground attack role? Sure, let's try to make a SAM with 200KG warhead worked at ground attack than using the "Ready to Go" (As per you) SCUD that is in storage??


one is precise , one is not , their use is a lot different


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558194924922834945


Correction
They are still working however no longer precise as should be. Reasons: short training resulting in erroneous handling, Ukraine uses those artillery extremely intensive. Those Haubitze fire US and UK shells instead of German shells resulting in unwanted recoils damage to the electronics. They are trying to fix now.














Kaputte Panzerhaubitzen im Ukraine-Krieg: Wie Deutschland hinter den Kulissen die wichtige Waffe zu reparieren versucht


Seit 2 Monaten sind 15 deutsche & niederländische Panzerhaubitzen im Ukraine-Krieg im Einsatz. Zwei Drittel sind aber jetzt kaputt. So reagiert Deutschland.




www.businessinsider.de


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Set aside the program and OS to boot, let's say that take less than 1 second (They are not) people don't know a radar have to be able to complete at least 1 full sweep before they can detect any incoming air threat. That's because you basically pulse microwave to the target and wait for it to bounce back to your receiver. Radar can't work until 1 full sweep so they can "arrest" the wave and catch the threat.


and the system can be booted up and ready but not emit any signal , the radar can even start rotation (if its that sort of radar) before having any emission
by the way how long it take to have a full sweep , 3s 4s or 5s


----------



## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Nazis in Ukraine kick Indian students.
> 
> In fact, the whole of Eastern Europe is full of racists, and all non white students and tourists are often bullied by Eastern Europeans.
> 
> View attachment 870230


You and your nazi nonsense
Don’t copy Putin, Lavrov. They see nazi everywhere. Maybe in China too.
They are not nazi they are just bad people.
Bad people exist everywhere. You don’t start a war just because there are bad people. The question what percentage of bad and good people. Have you ever been to East Europe?
I was not beaten by mob when traveled to Czech, Slowenia.

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## khansaheeb

Ukraine in default according to Fitch and S&P


The country faces a 35-45 per cent economic contraction this year.



www.dawn.com





EPAPERLIVE TVDAWNNEWS URDUIMAGESHERALDAURORACITYFM89TEELIADVERTISEEVENTS/SUPPLEMENTSCLASSIFIEDSOBITUARIES




TODAY'S PAPER | AUGUST 13, 2022​
HOMELATESTPAKISTANBUSINESSOPINIONCULTURESPORTMAGAZINESWORLDTECHPRISM




Ukraine in default according to Fitch and S&P​Reuters Published August 13, 2022 Updated 13 minutes ago

1x1.2x1.5x
Global rating agencies S&P and Fitch on Friday lowered Ukraine’s foreign currency ratings to selective default and restricted default as they consider the country’s debt restructuring as distressed.
Earlier this week, Ukraine’s overseas creditors backed the country’s request for a two-year freeze on payments on almost $20 billion in international bonds. The move will save Ukraine some $6bn on payments according to Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal.
S&P lowered Ukraine’s foreign currency rating to “SD/SD” from “CC/C”.
“Given the announced terms and conditions of the restructuring, and in line with our criteria, we view the transaction as distressed and tantamount to default,” S&P said.
ADVERTISING






















×

Fitch cut the country’s long-term foreign currency rating to “RD” from “C”, as it deems the deferral of debt payments as a completion of a distressed debt exchange.
S&P also said the macroeconomic and fiscal stress stemming from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine may weaken the Ukrainian government’s ability to stay current on its local currency debt and lowered the Eastern European country’s local currency rating to “CCC-plus/C” from “B-minus/B”.
Battered by Russia’s invasion, which started on Feb 24, Ukraine faces a 35-45 per cent economic contraction in 2022 and a monthly fiscal shortfall of $5bn.
RUSSIA UKRAINE WAR
BUSINESS














0

Read more​


Oligarchs should pay the bill to rebuild, says Ukrainian PM​How the Black Sea ‘grain battle’ could define Ukraine war​


World Bank warns of ‘stagflation’ as Ukraine war chokes global growth​
​

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558297840622895106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558229606028779521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558298967443644416


----------



## Primus

MH.Yang said:


> Nazis in Ukraine kick Indian students.
> 
> In fact, the whole of Eastern Europe is full of racists, and all non white students and tourists are often bullied by Eastern Europeans.
> 
> View attachment 870230


Old news. But to add, it wasnt just Indian students that were harassed and not allowed to cross because of the UKR border guards. They were other minorities as well. Most notably were a group of Nigerian students that went to study in UKR before the war. When war hit, they tried to make it out but were stopped by the border guards. They werent given any protection against the cold when they were forced to sleep outside and as a result, nearly all of them died from the cold. It was brushed under the carpet pretty quickly.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RektAtKasserinePass

PakAlp said:


> Russia-Ukraine war: invasion ‘starting to fail’ and Russian forces suffering huge losses, says UK – as it happened
> 
> 
> At a meeting of European defence ministers, Ben Wallace says Russia ‘unlikely to ever succeed in occupying Ukraine’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Crimea blasts significantly hit Russian navy - UK
> 
> 
> The Ministry of Defence says the blasts have "significantly degraded" Moscow's Black Sea Fleet.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's 'defeat' — Russia following same path as USSR in Afghanistan
> 
> 
> VLADIMIR PUTIN's military losses in Ukraine could spark a crisis similar to the one faced by the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, a former KGB spy warned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk


Daily express? LOL


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558406797341384706


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558069166095089664
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557873928474853377


What direction did these tyres were facing to get stuck in mud like this ? 
Better write a thread on Twitter

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PakFactor

Huffal said:


> Old news. But to add, it wasnt just Indian students that were harassed and not allowed to cross because of the UKR border guards. They were other minorities as well. Most notably were a group of Nigerian students that went to study in UKR before the war. When war hit, they tried to make it out but were stopped by the border guards. They werent given any protection against the cold when they were forced to sleep outside and as a result, nearly all of them died from the cold. It was brushed under the carpet pretty quickly.



Hence I question the mental capacity of those minorities even on this forum feeling so much for Ukraine and defending it, let them burn their own house in Europe just sit back and eat popcorn.

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> and you dont find it "incredible" how US spends money it doesnt have on wars it doesnt win?? At least Russia spends money it has on wars it will win.
> 
> smfh...i'm so happy i dont have your brain.


I also find it incredibly the US wastes billions on humanitarian aid all over the world. Always nice to overlook that fact 🙄


----------



## nufix

Viet said:


> You and your nazi nonsense
> Don’t copy Putin, Lavrov. They see nazi everywhere. Maybe in China too.
> They are not nazi they are just bad people.
> Bad people exist everywhere. You don’t start a war just because there are bad people. The question what percentage of bad and good people. Have you ever been to East Europe?
> I was not beaten by mob when traveled to Czech, Slowenia.



Czech and Slovenia are not east European countries though.. they are central European countries.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558484022531133440
Another ammo dump strike


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> well if 75km is short for you 3rd of Khordad and Bavar-373 can pick up targets up to 75km away wit their E/O . if they turn on radar their detection range will be twice
> 
> 
> one is precise , one is not , their use is a lot different


Dude 75km is short (That is if they can actually achieve that), considering most HARM or stand off missile has around 100+km range.....also Bavar-373 uses X-band radar for short range engagement

And S-300 is precise? It was around 2 hits every 10 missile launch when they were used as SAM, am I were to believe it become "Precise" when it was used in SSM??

What world are you living in



Hack-Hook said:


> and the* system can be booted up and ready but not emit any signal ,* the radar can even start rotation (if its that sort of radar) before having any emission
> by the way how long it take to have a full sweep , 3s 4s or 5s


All I can say is read the definition of the term EMCON. Otherwise, I can only say your understanding of emission control are absolutely wrong.....



Viet said:


> You and your nazi nonsense
> Don’t copy Putin, Lavrov. They see nazi everywhere. Maybe in China too.
> They are not nazi they are just bad people.
> Bad people exist everywhere. You don’t start a war just because there are bad people. The question what percentage of bad and good people. Have you ever been to East Europe?
> I was not beaten by mob when traveled to Czech, Slowenia.


lol, Mr Yang seems to forget they treated African student the same way. So were Chinese Nazi as well??









‘Black devils’: when African students were chased out of China’s cities


A lesser-known slice of Chinese history, sparked by a fight between African and Chinese students at a university in Nanjing in 1988, comes to life in Ken Kamoche’s Black Ghosts.




www.scmp.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558391085898031104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558338534876012544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558409499249090565

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558425013673496576

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558456867038298112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558463373137874945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558439357102579713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558430653879812096

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## RektAtKasserinePass

RoadAmerica said:


> I also find it incredibly the US wastes billions on humanitarian aid all over the world. Always nice to overlook that fact 🙄



Aid used as cover for covert operations.


----------



## The SC



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## Primus

The SC said:


>


Did he just use war thunder footage for the tank 😂😂

@RescueRanger

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558478313701707778

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC




----------



## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> Did he just use war thunder footage for the tank 😂😂
> 
> @RescueRanger


OMFG


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Dude 75km is short (That is if they can actually achieve that), considering most HARM or stand off missile has around 100+km range.....also Bavar-373 uses X-band radar for short range engagement


it has the option of an electro optic camera installed on tellar itself. and HARM needs an emitting radar. if there is no emition fat chance that it can hit anything and standof weapon needs to find the target first,
and you think how RQ-4 was hit without spy plane that was flying beside it or the RQ-4 itself don't be aware of being targetted


jhungary said:


> And S-300 is precise? It was around 2 hits every 10 missile launch when they were used as SAM, am I were to believe it become "Precise" when it was used in SSM??


so standard and patriot are not percise either. those twomissile fired is because they want to be certain of the hit 


jhungary said:


> All I can say is read the definition of the term EMCON. Otherwise, I can only say your understanding of emission control are absolutely wrong.....


wonder what it has to do to our discussion , a radar can be booted in every aspect but don't emit any wave


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## MeFishToo

RektAtKasserinePass said:


> So both sides are using civ infrastructure. Surprise surprise.


Ukraine is defending and Russia is attacking. In my opinion Russia has no excuse firing anything from inside civilian infrastructure. Special operation “liberating” Ukraine..
Liberation of Pisky. Very “precise“ use of thermobaric rockets. Im sure whos left are celebrating




Look at this ghost town while remembering all these pro-russian propaganda post about Ukraine shelling Donetsk a few kilometers to the east. The russians have zero honor.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558541261107339265
Footage of the combat work of a separate assault battalion "Somalia" in the village of Peski

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558536374306934785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558502132818624512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558429332665761793

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## Michel Niesten

Its still surprises me (Slavic) Russians call (Slavic) Ukrainians Nazis. 
It’s factual impossible to be a nazi for Slavic people. Nazis (Arian people) consider Slavic people as subhumans, the Aryan race is superior (according to the Nazi ideology). 
So Slavic Nazis hate themselves?

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## MeFishToo

Michel Niesten said:


> Its still surprises me (Slavic) Russians call (Slavic) Ukrainians Nazis.
> It’s factual impossible to be a nazi for Slavic people. Nazis (Arian people) consider Slavic people as subhumans, the Aryan race is superior (according to the Nazi ideology).
> So Slavic Nazis hate themselves?


Everybody opposing russian supremacy is a “NAZI”. It doesnt mean anything. Its just a means to rally russians around the flag.

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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> it has the option of an electro optic camera installed on tellar itself. and HARM needs an emitting radar. *if there is no emition fat chance that it can hit anything and standof weapon needs to find the target first,*


No.



https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2016/navy/2016aargm.pdf?ver=2019-08-22-105301-853



AARGM supplements the AGM-88B/C High-Speed Anti‑Radiation Missile (HARM) and is specifically *designed to prosecute targets that stop radiating*, executing point-to-point missions against traditional and non traditional air defense systems.​


https://www.navair.navy.mil/product/AARGM



AARGM baseline capabilities include an expanded target set, *counter-shutdown capability*, advanced signals processing for improved detection and locating, geographic specificity providing aircrew the opportunity to define missile-impact zones and impact-avoidance zones, and a weapon impact-assessment broadcast capability providing for battle damage assessment cueing.​
Because air defense radars are stationary for the duration, the HARM just need a few secs of transmissions from the radar to calculate the ground location.


----------



## zectech

Michel Niesten said:


> Its still surprises me (Slavic) Russians call (Slavic) Ukrainians Nazis.
> It’s factual impossible to be a nazi for Slavic people. Nazis (Arian people) consider Slavic people as subhumans, the Aryan race is superior (according to the Nazi ideology).
> So Slavic Nazis hate themselves?


The entire 'defend Russia argument' is summed up in this video.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558564376457641986
*MoD Russia, [8/13/2022 6:08 AM]*
⚡️Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

▫️Allied Forces offensive resulted in the complete liberation of Peski in Donetsk People's Republic.

💥*High-precision long-range sea- and land-based missiles and multiple rocket launchers struck enemy reserves near Gavrilovka railway station, Kharkov Region, eliminating over 70 servicemen and wounding over 300 of them from 30th Mechanized Brigade of AFU. Movement on this section of the railway is completely blocked.*

💥*High-precision strikes of the Russian Aerospace Forces against a temporary deployment point of 10th Mountain Assault Brigade near Pereyezdnoye in Donetsk People's Republic have destroyed up to 170 nationalists and 12 pieces of military equipment.*

▫️During Allied Forces offensive near Artemivsk in Donetsk People's Republic, 2 companies of 72nd Mechanised Brigade have been completely destroyed.

💥*As a result of concentrated strikes on command posts of 66th Mechanized Brigade units and Right Sector armed formation near Starye Terny in Donetsk People's Republic, more than 100 nationalists and 10 pieces of military equipment have been destroyed.*

💥Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery strikes continue against military facilities in Ukraine.

▫️*HIMARS rocket launcher and its ammunition depot have been destroyed near Kramatorsk, Donetsk People's Republic.*

▫️*2 Mi-24 helicopters of Ukrainian air force have been destroyed at helipad near Domanyovka, Nikolaev Region.*

▫️*4 command posts, 143 areas of manpower, arms, military and special equipment concentration have also been hit.*

💥*As part of counter-battery warfare, 2 platoons of Grad multiple-launch rocket systems near Soledar and Artemivsk, 3 artillery platoons of Acatsiya guns and 5 platoons of D-30 howitzers at firing positions near Maiorsk, Dzerzhinsk, Zvanovka, Seversk, Pereyezdnoye, Yakovlevka, Fedorovka and Vyemka in Donetsk People's Republic have been suppressed.*

💥*Russian air defence means have destroyed 4 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles near Tsentralnoye in Nikolayev Region, Suligovka, Shestakovo and Dmitrovka, Kharkov Region.

▫️In addition, 4 HIMARS rockets have been shot down in the air near Novaya Kakhovka, Kherson region.*

📊In total, 267 Ukrainian airplanes and 148 helicopters, 1,736 unmanned aerial vehicles, 365 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4,297 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 798 multiple launch rocket systems, 3,295 field artillery and mortars, as well as 4,858 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #report
@mod_russia_en

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558487096507105281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558488735997722631
It looks many Western experts are beginning to see how the Western propaganda is no longer believable. Russia is winning in this conflict.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558509922844819456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558510109298499584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558510821923241985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558510426324860936


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558502353074003970

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558487029457063937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558479072853798912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558404809304248325

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558399488871497728


----------



## Soldier35

The United States handed over MaxxPro armored personnel carriers to Ukraine. One of the MaxxPro armored personnel carriers did not cope with the Ukrainian off-road and was caught on video. The armored vehicle with enhanced mine protection MaxxPro of the American company Navistar was put into service on an urgent basis in the United States in 2007. The use of a serial chassis made it possible to quickly deploy the mass production of the MaxxPro armored vehicle. A fighting compartment for 6 people is installed on the chassis of the armored car, protected from below by a V-shaped plate.


----------



## Viet

Michel Niesten said:


> Its still surprises me (Slavic) Russians call (Slavic) Ukrainians Nazis.
> It’s factual impossible to be a nazi for Slavic people. Nazis (Arian people) consider Slavic people as subhumans, the Aryan race is superior (according to the Nazi ideology).
> So Slavic Nazis hate themselves?


It’s much like you paint a horse with black white stripes then call it zebra.
Sure, you can call it zebra however for most people it is a horse painted with black white stripes.



nufix said:


> Czech and Slovenia are not east European countries though.. they are central European countries.


I use the classical terminology of East west Europe. Everything right of Germany is East Europe.


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> No.
> 
> https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2016/navy/2016aargm.pdf?ver=2019-08-22-105301-853
> AARGM supplements the AGM-88B/C High-Speed Anti‑Radiation Missile (HARM) and is specifically *designed to prosecute targets that stop radiating*, executing point-to-point missions against traditional and non traditional air defense systems.


yes but i say it don't need to turn on the radar to get a lock , so HARM capability of tracking the target if it stop radiating but stay in vicinity is useless because there was no radiation to lock on even at the beginning . the only warning is several second before dive .


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## Viet

Ukraine says it has the ability to strike all Russian targets within its territory.
Ukraine artillery trying to destroy the temporary pontoon bridge to completely cut off the Russian troop west of Dnjepr river.
Should Ukraine destroy the dam everyone everything including the trapped Russian troops will be drown.







Bild vergrößern
Uk









Krieg an der Südfront: Wichtige Brücke laut ukrainischer Armee für russische Truppen nicht mehr befahrbar


Seit Wochen versuchen ukrainische Truppen, die Nachschubwege der Russen westlich des Dnjepr zu kappen. Jüngste Angriffe könnten die Besatzer nun in Bedrängnis bringen.




www.spiegel.de


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558721714120425472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558721903141031936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558722564041605121


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Ukraine says it has the ability to strike all Russian targets within its territory.
> Ukraine artillery trying to destroy the temporary pontoon bridge to completely cut off the Russian troop west of Dnjepr river.
> Should Ukraine destroy the dam everyone everything including the trapped Russian troops will be drown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Krieg an der Südfront: Wichtige Brücke laut ukrainischer Armee für russische Truppen nicht mehr befahrbar
> 
> 
> Seit Wochen versuchen ukrainische Truppen, die Nachschubwege der Russen westlich des Dnjepr zu kappen. Jüngste Angriffe könnten die Besatzer nun in Bedrängnis bringen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de


well i can only think what Russian answer would be if ukraine do that.


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> well i can only think what Russian answer would be if ukraine do that.


Nazi is used too much inflated. The Russian leadership misuse it as propaganda, as cheap excuse to go to war. Actually every school kid including myself learns Nazi is rooted in Germany, it combines a policy set, a resurrection of Germany after WW1 defeat, a economic revival, under party leadership Nationalsozialism, under a Führer, a racial law, state sponsored hatred against the Jews and other subhumans, an aggression policy against arch enemies, the policy of territorial expansion. Ukraine oppressing Russian speaking people in Donbas hardly fit into this scheme.


----------



## Piotr

Steven Seagal speaks about Zelensky commiting crimes against humanity:

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## Michel Niesten

Piotr said:


> Steven Seagal speaks about Zelensky commiting crimes against humanity:


Yeah, and Seagal is an expert at it. 
He’s used only for propaganda purposes of the Kremlin. 
First he was paid as an actor in bad movies, now he’s a paid actor for Russian propaganda. How low can you go



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558487096507105281
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558488735997722631
> It looks many Western experts are beginning to see how the Western propaganda is no longer believable. Russia is winning in this conflict.


But as Röpcke says, it comes at a huge cost, which Putin doesn’t care about. The question is, how long can and will the Russian population accept this war of attrition? I mean, Russia is not winning anything with it, except useless, destroyed barren countryside. 
And if the would want to keep it, they have to fix it, which also comes at a huge cost. 
So, I wonder what their long term strategy is (if they have any)

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## HorusRa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558721714120425472



Russian AD absolutely worthless.

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine Situation Report: Kherson Bridges Out, Russians Face Supply Nightmare


Reports are circulating that Kherson's occupation leadership fled south over the Dnieper River as Ukrainians strangle fragile supply lines.




www.thedrive.com





Looks like the collapse of the Russian occupation of Kherson is coming...

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## RoadAmerica

Piotr said:


> Steven Seagal speaks about Zelensky commiting crimes against humanity:


Hahaha who cares what this turd thinks 💩

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## Vergennes

Michel Niesten said:


> Yeah, and Seagal is an expert at it.
> He’s used only for propaganda purposes of the Kremlin.
> First he was paid as an actor in bad movies, now he’s a paid actor for Russian propaganda. How low can you go
> 
> 
> But as Röpcke says, it comes at a huge cost, which Putin doesn’t care about. The question is, how long can and will the Russian population accept this war of attrition? I mean, Russia is not winning anything with it, except useless, destroyed barren countryside.
> And if the would want to keep it, they have to fix it, which also comes at a huge cost.
> So, I wonder what their long term strategy is (if they have any)



Russians surely do not care about attrition they have accepted the fact of being simple cannon fodder. When a Russian family got their son killed in Ukraine the first thing they did was to buy a shitty Lada with the money they received.



Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine Situation Report: Kherson Bridges Out, Russians Face Supply Nightmare
> 
> 
> Reports are circulating that Kherson's occupation leadership fled south over the Dnieper River as Ukrainians strangle fragile supply lines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the collapse of the Russian occupation of Kherson is coming...



According to several sources Russian armed forces command staff have begun retreating across the Dnipro river...



HorusRa said:


> Russian AD absolutely worthless.



But they are claiming near 100% interception rate of Himars rocket yet they still get their HQs,ammos depots,troop concentration and bridges blown up,lmao.

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## Piotr

US-founded Nazis doing what US-founded Nazis do:
Completely Normal - AFU Soldiers Dressed As Nazi SS For Military Funerals​https://www.bitchute.com/video/U5yO8z5uGP2I/

US stooge Nazilensky must be proud.

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## Viet

Piotr said:


> Steven Seagal speaks about Zelensky commiting crimes against humanity:


That is low. Employing retired US actor. Putin propaganda seems have no more trust to russian, chinese, Cuba and North Korean actors.
What’s next?
How’s about Sharon Stone?
She was very famous in Basic instinct.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558753485952368641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558753489660026881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558753493707530240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558753506684768256

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## Ali_Baba

Russia leaves _10,000_ soldiers stranded in tactical withdrawal to the west​








Russia leaves 10,000 soldiers stranded in tactical withdrawal to the west


Mykolayiv governor apologises to ‘stupid orcs’ now isolated on Dnipro’s west bank as MoD says they will be unable to defend their position




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## zectech

Here is an article of how Trump is a Russian asset.

*‘The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy*

_The KGB ‘played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality’, Yuri Shvets, a key source for a new book, tells the Guardian

David Smith in Washington

Donald Trump was cultivated as a Russian asset over 40 years and proved so willing to parrot anti-western propaganda that there were celebrations in Moscow, a former KGB spy has told the Guardian.
Yuri Shvets, posted to Washington by the Soviet Union in the 1980s, compares the former US president to “the Cambridge five”, the British spy ring that passed secrets to Moscow during the second world war and early cold war.

Now 67, Shvets is a key source for American Kompromat, a new book by journalist Craig Unger, whose previous works include House of Trump, House of Putin. The book also explores the former president’s relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.

“This is an example where people were recruited when they were just students and then they rose to important positions; something like that was happening with Trump,” Shvets said by phone on Monday from his home in Virginia.
Shvets, a KGB major, had a cover job as a correspondent in Washington for the Russian news agency Tass during the 1980s. He moved to the US permanently in 1993 and gained American citizenship. He works as a corporate security investigator and was a partner of Alexander Litvinenko, who was assassinated in London in 2006.
Unger describes how Trump first appeared on the Russians’ radar in 1977 when he married his first wife, Ivana Zelnickova, a Czech model. Trump became the target of a spying operation overseen by Czechoslovakia’s intelligence service in cooperation with the KGB.
Three years later Trump opened his first big property development, the Grand Hyatt New York hotel near Grand Central station. Trump bought 200 television sets for the hotel from Semyon Kislin, a Soviet émigré who co-owned Joy-Lud electronics on Fifth Avenue.
According to Shvets, Joy-Lud was controlled by the KGB and Kislin worked as a so-called “spotter agent” who identified Trump, a young businessman on the rise, as a potential asset. Kislin denies that he had a relationship with the KGB.
Then, in 1987, Trump and Ivana visited Moscow and St Petersburg for the first time. Shvets said he was fed KGB talking points and flattered by KGB operatives who floated the idea that he should go into politics.
The ex-major recalled: “For the KGB, it was a charm offensive. They had collected a lot of information on his personality so they knew who he was personally. The feeling was that he was extremely vulnerable intellectually, and psychologically, and he was prone to flattery.

“This is what they exploited. They played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality and believed this is the guy who should be the president of the United States one day: it is people like him who could change the world. They fed him these so-called active measures soundbites and it happened. So it was a big achievement for the KGB active measures at the time.”
Soon after he returned to the US, Trump began exploring a run for the Republican nomination for president and even held a campaign rally in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. On 1 September, he took out a full-page advert in the New York Times, Washington Post and Boston Globe headlined: “There’s nothing wrong with America’s Foreign Defense Policy that a little backbone can’t cure.”
The ad offered some highly unorthodox opinions in Ronald Reagan’s cold war America, accusing ally Japan of exploiting the US and expressing scepticism about US participation in Nato. It took the form of an open letter to the American people “on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves”.
The bizarre intervention was cause for astonishment and jubilation in Russia. A few days later Shvets, who had returned home by now, was at the headquarters of the KGB’s first chief directorate in Yasenevo when he received a cable celebrating the ad as a successful “active measure” executed by a new KGB asset.
“It was unprecedented. I am pretty well familiar with KGB active measures starting in the early 70s and 80s, and then afterwards with Russia active measures, and I haven’t heard anything like that or anything similar – until Trump became the president of this country – because it was just silly. It was hard to believe that somebody would publish it under his name and that it will impress real serious people in the west but it did and, finally, this guy became the president.”
Trump’s election win in 2016 was again welcomed by Moscow. Special counsel Robert Mueller did not establish a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians. But the Moscow Project, an initiative of the Center for American Progress Action Fund, found the Trump campaign and transition team had at least 272 known contacts and at least 38 known meetings with Russia-linked operatives.
Shvets, who has carried out his own investigation, said: “For me, the Mueller report was a big disappointment because people expected that it will be a thorough investigation of all ties between Trump and Moscow, when in fact what we got was an investigation of just crime-related issues. There were no counterintelligence aspects of the relationship between Trump and Moscow.”

He added: “This is what basically we decided to correct. So I did my investigation and then got together with Craig. So we believe that his book will pick up where Mueller left off.”
Unger, the author of seven books and a former contributing editor for Vanity Fair magazine, said of Trump: “He was an asset. It was not this grand, ingenious plan that we’re going to develop this guy and 40 years later he’ll be president. At the time it started, which was around 1980, the Russians were trying to recruit like crazy and going after dozens and dozens of people.”
“Trump was the perfect target in a lot of ways: his vanity, narcissism made him a natural target to recruit. He was cultivated over a 40-year period, right up through his election.”_









‘The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy


The KGB ‘played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality’, Yuri Shvets, a key source for a new book, tells the Guardian




www.theguardian.com





However there are other undisputed facts that show the Putin-Trump ties.

Not only is Trump, Pro-Putin/Pro-Russian over the EU. Same as buddy Putin.



https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/445055-top-official-accuses-trump-putin-of-trying-to-weaken-the-eu/



The Trump Family and Chabad relations goes back to the 1950s and perhaps before. Putin lets the Chabad run the Russian economy, according to a Chabad rabbi.









How Donald Trump’s developer dad and a Brooklyn rabbi saved a synagogue


When congregants enter the Beach Haven Jewish Center in Gravesend, Brooklyn, they pass a small plaque hanging just outside the main sanctuary. “Fred Trump. Humanitarian,” declare the gold emb…




nypost.com













The Happy-Go-Lucky Jewish Group That Connects Trump and Putin


Where Trump's real estate world meets a top religious ally of the Kremlin.




www.politico.com









__





Putin and Jews






www.bitchute.com





Trump has dealing with the Russian mob, making a Russian mobster, a special advisor to Trump.














Felix Sater: The Crook Behind the Trump-Russia ‘Peace’ Plan


Sater is one of the most notorious and shady characters in the American president’s past, including his very recent past.



www.thedailybeast.com





Putin lets the Russian mob control much of Russia, including the Duma. Many Russians who oppose Putin, live in fear of the Russian mafia. Trump has Russian Mafia connections.









Putin Welcomes the Return of the Russian Mafia


Putin appears to be courting the notion of Russia as "a superpower of crime," not as a threat or an embarrassment but a potential opportunity.




www.newsweek.com





Trump has dealing with Russian Oligarchs. Same as Putin.

And the whole Russian interference in the election of 2016 was true. The objective was to split the Democratic vote into Jill Stein. And RT News was the tool to promote Jill Stein to US voters. To expose Hillary corruption.









Guess who came to dinner with Flynn and Putin


NBC News reviewed video and photos from a 2015 Moscow gala that Mike Flynn was paid $45,000 to attend to see who else was in the room.




www.nbcnews.com





The cia owns Trump and Putin



https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/








And the political party of the cia is the Republican Party. The cia controls the Democrats to lose to Republicans. As the 2000 election was stolen to cia Bush.









Democrats Should Remember Al Gore Won Florida in 2000 — but Lost the Presidency With a Pre-emptive Surrender


The Democrats can get all the votes counted in Florida, Georgia, and Arizona only with a display of people power.




theintercept.com













Florida 'recounts' make Gore winner


Al Gore, not George Bush, should be sitting in the White House today as the newly elected president of the United States, two new independent probes of the disputed Florida election contest have confirmed.




www.theguardian.com





The 2004 election was stolen to cia Bush.









Ohio's Odd Numbers


No conspiracy theorist, and no fan of John Kerry's, the author nevertheless found the Ohio polling results impossible to swallow: Given what happened in that key state on Election Day 2004, both democracy and common sense cry out for a court-ordered inspection of its new voting machines.




www.vanityfair.com





The 2016 election was stolen to cia Trump.

Democrats are to be eliminated by Trump to a one party Putin state, that is the plan, that what was reason for the 1/6 insurrection and the Big Lie. US was planned by the cia to become the new Russia of Putin with Trump.









Garry Kasparov: Americans Are Allowing Trump To Turn U.S. Into Russia


"Time to pick a side," the activist chess champ says.




www.huffpost.com





The cure ("Trump"/"Putin") is worse than the disease of globalist neo-liberalism.

Gales of Stupid Laughter 5, 4, 3, 2...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## oberschlesier

The EU Gas reserves are now at 74% and raising:



Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558869867499065355

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558857290547175430

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558887082097008642

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558883717791289356

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558882218705129475

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558882030804508673


----------



## The SC



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NotSure

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558753485952368641
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558753489660026881
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558753493707530240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558753506684768256


What a bunch of nonsense, from a guy, who seems to lack even the basic education in physics. Kinematics to be precise.

First: Few of this missiles exploded at the same high, because the GMLRS missiles fired at constant time intervalls and the SAMs also, so at the end you will have the same altitude of interception. This are grade 8 physics.

Second: Russians SAMs intercepted 15 out of 18 missiles. Not perfect, but not bad also.

Such a propaganda clown, lol.



Michel Niesten said:


> Yeah, and Seagal is an expert at it.
> He’s used only for propaganda purposes of the Kremlin.
> First he was paid as an actor in bad movies, now he’s a paid actor for Russian propaganda. How low can you go
> 
> 
> But as Röpcke says, it comes at a huge cost, which Putin doesn’t care about. The question is, how long can and will the Russian population accept this war of attrition? I mean, Russia is not winning anything with it, except useless, destroyed barren countryside.
> And if the would want to keep it, they have to fix it, which also comes at a huge cost.
> So, I wonder what their long term strategy is (if they have any)


The moron Jihadi Julian knows shit about the costs russia has. War of attrition, lol. The only war of attrition is on the kiev side. Like Lindsey Graham said: UKUSA will fight to the last Ukrainian.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


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## dbc

NotSure said:


> First: Few of this missiles exploded at the same high, because the GMLRS missiles fired at constant time intervalls and the SAMs also, so at the end you will have the same altitude of interception. This are grade 8 physics.


not really GMLRS rockets are quipped with CAS control actuation systems, Each rocket can alter its trajectory inflight so a salvo of rockets launched together may or may not have the same flight profile.Besides, I noticed multiple surface explosions in that video so it hardly supports your theory of successful interception.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558902148024385540

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558906245511319553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557769714352414720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558889301286555652

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> yes but i say it don't need to turn on the radar to get a lock , so HARM capability of tracking the target if it stop radiating but stay in vicinity is useless because there was no radiation to lock on even at the beginning . the only warning is several second before dive .


You are clearly ignorant, and I say that kindly, of how a 'lock' process works. Even at the speed of light, any radar system will require several seconds of target illumination -- *UNDER IDEAL ENVIRONMENT* -- to get a lock. When we say 'ideal environment' we are not talking laboratory condition. We are looking at clear day, no weather interference, no geographic barriers, and the target is cooperative meaning not maneuvering. In other words, airport traffic control. Is this in combat?

The reason it takes several seconds is because the target is non-cooperative in every way, from exploiting physical barriers such as terrain to employing EM countermeasures, and when, not if, there are multiple adversaries as how SEAD/DEAD attacks always are, the Surveillance radar will not be able to get a lock at all while transmitting trying to get a radar signature. And this is with just *ONE ANTENNA ROTATION*. On the next rotation, the same attempt. And so on.

Now add in multiple HARMs in the mix. Surveillance must have sufficient time, as in seconds, to discriminate multiple targets. So while Surveillance struggles to figure out if a 'blip' is one or two attackers, one attacker is that 'blip' out of range while the other attacker's HARM acquire the ground location. Back in Desert Storm, a fighter can real time data link to everyone in the vicinity.

On the F-16 SEAD/DEAD, one effective tactic of confusing the radar is with the Doppler component, namely, a sudden drop in speed then launch the HARM. Pull the throttle back to near idle and open the air brakes at the same time, depending on the airspeed the pilot could be tossed forward in the cockpit up to 9g but the harness will restrain him, but he will still be able to release the HARM, then the radar die. Tracking radars have higher pulse repetition (PRF) than Surveillance which make the Tracking radar an even easier target for spoofing and for the HARM. Tracking radars are programmed, or if manually operated the soldier is instructed, to resolve any target anomalies before SAM launch. A SEAD/DEAD pilot can complicate the maneuver by making a sharp turn with the sudden airspeed drop, and not releasing his HARM, in doing so, he will compel the Tracking radar to refocus on him while the wingmen (plural) attack the radar. A barrel roll is sufficiently an attractive variable for the Tracking radar. Each maneuver costs the SAM fuel and time and if the SAM is forced to maneuver the same as the target, the odds of failure, depending on range, increases with each 1/10th of a sec. Each movement by the fighter creates what is called 'angular corrections' in the tracking algorithm, therefore, the Tracking radar must focus on the maneuvering target for as long as possible to give the SAM a target solution.

Why 1/10th of a sec? Because of the physical limitations from the mechanical flight control systems of missiles. Theoretical Mathematics is one thing, Applied Mathematics is another.









How Stinger Missiles Work


The Stinger missile is a deadly man-portable air-defense system (MANPADS) that can be rapidly deployed by ground troops. It's lightweight, combat-proven and has a greater than 90 percent success rate. So how are Stingers used and against whom?




science.howstuffworks.com





The missile looks at the angle of off-centeredness and changes its angle of flight proportionally. In other words, it uses a multiplier. If the multiplier is 2, then if the guidance system thinks it is 10 degrees off course, it will change its flight direction by 20 degrees. *Then, a tenth of a second later it will look at the angle again, and change again.* By over-correcting this way, it lets the missile anticipate the path of the moving plane in the same way that you anticipate the path of a moving object.​
How do we know this? Because we analyzed the Desert Storm EM records and replicated them in Red Flag exercises. You think we are amateurs at this? 

The F-16 is the goddamed *KING* of SEAD/DEAD, pal.

The HARM is useless if the radar does not transmit? 

The 'S' in SEAD stands for *SUPPRESSION*. If you do not transmit, it is 'Mission Accomplished' for my flight. We may return to kill you, that is the 'D' in DEAD which stands for *DESTRUCTION*, at a later time. But now that we know where you are, a flight of B-52s will do a fine job of killing you later. So no, even if my HARM missed you or I did not launched, the fact that you electronically shut up meant I won. 

I can tell you to 'Ask the Iraqis' but doubtful if any of Iraqi Army Desert Storm vets are still around to tell their stories. If US/NATO is in this fight, the Russian air defense forces *WILL* be as ineffective and die as ignobly as the Iraqi Army did. But hey...I hope Iran sent 'expert advisers' in air defense who thinks like you to Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558826980027600897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558809211320008704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558737545630023680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558699141236236291

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> The 'S' in SEAD stands for *SUPPRESSION*. If you do not transmit, it is 'Mission Accomplished' for my flight. We may return to kill you, that is the 'D' in DEAD which stands for *DESTRUCTION*, at a later time. But now that we know where you are, a flight of B-52s will do a fine job of killing you later. So no, even if my HARM missed you or I did not launched, the fact that you electronically shut up meant I won.


you guys are so transfixed with western weaponary that are not even willing to think maybe some one find another way to engage enemy aircrafts.
as i said there are medium range system out there that don't need radar to engage enemy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558862623092969474
MaxxPro in Ukraine
https://defense-arab.com/vb/data/xfmg/video/504/504617-be0188b38854e85f18620931c3f7237d.mp4

The systematic targeting of Russian soldiers
https://defense-arab.com/vb/data/xfmg/video/504/504625-c1a6e3cf054b955858749deedc8e985c.mp4

"🅾️" show off their new trophies
Warriors capture new trophies, but also master them in order to destroy ukrai

In today's review, the Swedish AT-4 disposable anti-tank rocket launcher and the Ukrainian "Stugna-P" anti-tank missile system.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558767322298474497


----------



## MeFishToo

NotSure said:


> What a bunch of nonsense, from a guy, who seems to lack even the basic education in physics. Kinematics to be precise.
> 
> First: Few of this missiles exploded at the same high, because the GMLRS missiles fired at constant time intervalls and the SAMs also, so at the end you will have the same altitude of interception. This are grade 8 physics.
> 
> Second: Russians SAMs intercepted 15 out of 18 missiles. Not perfect, but not bad also.
> 
> Such a propaganda clown, lol.


There were 5 hits at that end of the bridge, and possibly 3 at the other end of the bridge during an earlier strike. No 18 missiles were fired. Youre the propaganda clown

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Corax

gambit said:


> You are clearly ignorant, and I say that kindly, of how a 'lock' process works. Even at the speed of light, any radar system will require several seconds of target illumination -- *UNDER IDEAL ENVIRONMENT* -- to get a lock. When we say 'ideal environment' we are not talking laboratory condition. We are looking at clear day, no weather interference, no geographic barriers, and the target is cooperative meaning not maneuvering. In other words, airport traffic control. Is this in combat?
> 
> The reason it takes several seconds is because the target is non-cooperative in every way, from exploiting physical barriers such as terrain to employing EM countermeasures, and when, not if, there are multiple adversaries as how SEAD/DEAD attacks always are, the Surveillance radar will not be able to get a lock at all while transmitting trying to get a radar signature. And this is with just *ONE ANTENNA ROTATION*. On the next rotation, the same attempt. And so on.
> 
> Now add in multiple HARMs in the mix. Surveillance must have sufficient time, as in seconds, to discriminate multiple targets. So while Surveillance struggles to figure out if a 'blip' is one or two attackers, one attacker is that 'blip' out of range while the other attacker's HARM acquire the ground location. Back in Desert Storm, a fighter can real time data link to everyone in the vicinity.
> 
> On the F-16 SEAD/DEAD, one effective tactic of confusing the radar is with the Doppler component, namely, a sudden drop in speed then launch the HARM. Pull the throttle back to near idle and open the air brakes at the same time, depending on the airspeed the pilot could be tossed forward in the cockpit up to 9g but the harness will restrain him, but he will still be able to release the HARM, then the radar die. Tracking radars have higher pulse repetition (PRF) than Surveillance which make the Tracking radar an even easier target for spoofing and for the HARM. Tracking radars are programmed, or if manually operated the soldier is instructed, to resolve any target anomalies before SAM launch. A SEAD/DEAD pilot can complicate the maneuver by making a sharp turn with the sudden airspeed drop, and not releasing his HARM, in doing so, he will compel the Tracking radar to refocus on him while the wingmen (plural) attack the radar. A barrel roll is sufficiently an attractive variable for the Tracking radar. Each maneuver costs the SAM fuel and time and if the SAM is forced to maneuver the same as the target, the odds of failure, depending on range, increases with each 1/10th of a sec. Each movement by the fighter creates what is called 'angular corrections' in the tracking algorithm, therefore, the Tracking radar must focus on the maneuvering target for as long as possible to give the SAM a target solution.
> 
> Why 1/10th of a sec? Because of the physical limitations from the mechanical flight control systems of missiles. Theoretical Mathematics is one thing, Applied Mathematics is another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Stinger Missiles Work
> 
> 
> The Stinger missile is a deadly man-portable air-defense system (MANPADS) that can be rapidly deployed by ground troops. It's lightweight, combat-proven and has a greater than 90 percent success rate. So how are Stingers used and against whom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> science.howstuffworks.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The missile looks at the angle of off-centeredness and changes its angle of flight proportionally. In other words, it uses a multiplier. If the multiplier is 2, then if the guidance system thinks it is 10 degrees off course, it will change its flight direction by 20 degrees. *Then, a tenth of a second later it will look at the angle again, and change again.* By over-correcting this way, it lets the missile anticipate the path of the moving plane in the same way that you anticipate the path of a moving object.​
> How do we know this? Because we analyzed the Desert Storm EM records and replicated them in Red Flag exercises. You think we are amateurs at this?
> 
> The F-16 is the goddamed *KING* of SEAD/DEAD, pal.
> 
> The HARM is useless if the radar does not transmit?
> 
> The 'S' in SEAD stands for *SUPPRESSION*. If you do not transmit, it is 'Mission Accomplished' for my flight. We may return to kill you, that is the 'D' in DEAD which stands for *DESTRUCTION*, at a later time. But now that we know where you are, a flight of B-52s will do a fine job of killing you later. So no, even if my HARM missed you or I did not launched, the fact that you electronically shut up meant I won.
> 
> I can tell you to 'Ask the Iraqis' but doubtful if any of Iraqi Army Desert Storm vets are still around to tell their stories. If US/NATO is in this fight, the Russian air defense forces *WILL* be as ineffective and die as ignobly as the Iraqi Army did. But hey...I hope Iran sent 'expert advisers' in air defense who thinks like you to Russia.



You have comprehension issues and cognitive dissonance. The guy has repeatedly referred to SAM systems using EOP search and tracking, not radars. Yet all you can do is spill your bilge about HARM this and HARM that.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> such as 3rd of khordad that can use E/O to fire the missile for targets up to 70/75km away and use missile onboard radars activated at last second of flight for precise targeting when the missile dive.


You mean this...???





__





Sevom Khordad Air Defense Missile System | Military-Today.com


Sevom Khordad, also known as 3rd Khordad, is the most advanced and powerful Iranian medium-range air defense missile system. It was officially displayed in 2016.



www.military-today.com





Sevom Khordad, also known as 3rd Khordad, is the most advanced and powerful Iranian medium-range air defense missile system. It was officially displayed in 2016. It uses a 6x6 wheeled chassis, based on IVECO commercial truck, though with many design changes. This air defense *system contains an active phased array radar* on top in the front part and three missiles behind it.​
What is the radar used for?


----------



## The SC




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558721714120425472
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558721903141031936
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558722564041605121





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558943097408540672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558871045842542595


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine Situation Report: Kherson Bridges Out, Russians Face Supply Nightmare
> 
> 
> Reports are circulating that Kherson's occupation leadership fled south over the Dnieper River as Ukrainians strangle fragile supply lines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the collapse of the Russian occupation of Kherson is coming...





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559020972896043009

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> it has the option of an electro optic camera installed on tellar itself. and HARM needs an emitting radar. if there is no emition fat chance that it can hit anything and standof weapon needs to find the target first,
> and you think how RQ-4 was hit without spy plane that was flying beside it or the RQ-4 itself don't be aware of being targetted



HARM does NOT need emitting Radar, you, it's a beam riding missile, which mean you can fire at target with your own active radar which can lock any target it detected, whether or not it emits Radar Signature. You just don't know that is a SAM radar. Say a E-3A pick up a ground target, they can still use HARM, which have 150KM range to destroy it. IT does not need it to turn on. With Link 16, whatever the E-3A can ping, F-16 can shoot. You can verify with other means. 

Tanks can't emit Radar Beam either, how do E-3A/Apache pick up where enemy tank were?

And I don't understand the argument for RQ-4 Global Hawk, that is not a stealth drone, which mean you can pick that up and shoot it down, you radar wasn't torched afterward may or may not be because of the US Air Force did not see you. They may and they choose not to engage. Which is highly likely in this sense because would you risk starting a war and kill 4 or whatever people in that Radar Vehicle over a drone??


Hack-Hook said:


> so standard and patriot are not percise either. those twomissile fired is because they want to be certain of the hit



The difference is, we are not converting Standard Missile and Patriot missile for Ground Attack role, there are dual use Standard Missile that can target Air and Ship. But that is a design project. We aren't using them to attack shipping.

That show how desperate Russia need for Stand Off attack capability. And why not just convert the SCUD that was put in storage, if they can be reuse, I am pretty sure it's a lot less work than try to put S-300 on ground duty. That show you they can't do it. Which is my point.


Hack-Hook said:


> wonder what it has to do to our discussion , a radar can be booted in every aspect but don't emit any wave



It's like saying your phone can be booted and on standby without emitting any signal..........

Again, this is about EMCOM. which you claim you can just shut off the radar and then turn it on, I said that is NOT possible without any emission, that is the point. You boot up a system, you have emission, emission is not just about radar wave, I am not going to teach you the entire book of SIGINT. I will just give you one example for EMCON - SCIF.


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> you guys are so transfixed with western weaponary that are not even willing to think maybe some one find another way to engage enemy aircrafts.
> as i said there are medium range system out there that don't need radar to engage enemy.


How can you detect incoming aircraft or missile without radar? Given those objects are beyond visual range. If you don’t „see“ it you can’t detect it coming. Radar is like human eye. The other option is detecting or „seeing“ the heat signature of those flying objects. Aircraft and missiles are „hot“ objects they emit infrared or electromagnetic waves. Heat seaking sensor does the job.

There is passive radar to detect flying objects without emitting radar beams. However technically it is called radar too. SAM usually has both radar and heat seeking sensor. And of course a ground station guiding the interception. There is no other option. A bit of physics.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558924551526006787

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558907479332982785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558885103631212544

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558877850366889992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558788051077398531

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558758524573962240

Chinese Katyusha blew up the Internet. Katyusha becomes a hit

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## gambit

Viet said:


> There is passive radar to detect flying objects without emitting radar beams. However technically it is called radar too.


I have explained on this forum yrs ago that there is no such animal as a 'passive' radar. All radars needs a transmission source so that make it no such thing as a 'passive' radar. You can bring up a web site that uses those words but that still does not make it technically true.


----------



## Primus

Does anyone have some sort of map or something that would show the spread of radiation if that Nuclear power (zapro something) plant is hit and destroyed?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> How can you detect incoming aircraft or missile without radar? Given those objects are beyond visual range. If you don’t „see“ it you can’t detect it coming. Radar is like human eye. The other option is detecting or „seeing“ the heat signature of those flying objects. Aircraft and missiles are „hot“ objects they emit infrared or electromagnetic waves. Heat seaking sensor does the job.
> 
> There is passive radar to detect flying objects without emitting radar beams. However technically it is called radar too. SAM usually has both radar and heat seeking sensor. And of course a ground station guiding the interception. There is no other option. A bit of physics.


In their mind,

They launch missile in EVERY SINGLE DIRECTION and hope the onboard sensor can lock onto something. 

That's how accident happens tho.


----------



## Viet

gambit said:


> I have explained on this forum yrs ago that there is no such animal as a 'passive' radar. All radars needs a transmission source so that make it no such thing as a 'passive' radar. You can bring up a web site that uses those words but that still does not make it technically true.


That is very complex system necessary. Hensoldt and Aulus can do the detection without sending active radar beams. There is no sender there is only receiver. A stealth plane like F35 can’t avoid being hit and reflected by UKW, DAB and DVB electromagnetic waves. Not yet.


----------



## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Does anyone have some sort of map or something that would show the spread of radiation if that Nuclear power (zapro something) plant is hit and destroyed?


Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, sometime it's known as Enerhodar Nuclear Power plant (Where the plant located)

It was not destroyed and if they were destroyed, it would be worse than Chernobyl, as its reactor is twice the size of Chernobyl.....


----------



## Primus

jhungary said:


> Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, sometime it's known as Enerhodar Nuclear Power plant (Where the plant located)
> 
> It was not destroyed and if they were destroyed, it would be worse than Chernobyl, as its reactor is twice the size of Chernobyl.....


Oh shit


----------



## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Oh shit
> View attachment 870864




IIRC, it is THE BIGGEST nuclear power plant in Europe.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559084305908891648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559056486290132992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559097054969962496
^^

Pretty much nothing remains of this wagner base,sincerely hope a lot of those rats were killed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558884557788692480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558942101618016256
The accuracy of those bombs is amazing.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559094601604124672

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## HorusRa

Vergennes said:


> Pretty much nothing remains of this wagner base,sincerely hope a lot of those rats were killed.








Apparently they posted this image online with the base's address visible lmao

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Primus

jhungary said:


> IIRC, it is THE BIGGEST nuclear power plant in Europe.


Thats not any better dude




Screw it im out, im leaving the country

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> In their mind,
> 
> They launch missile in EVERY SINGLE DIRECTION and hope the onboard sensor can lock onto something.
> 
> That's how accident happens tho.


Putin has lots of missiles and bombs to spare, even with 10 percent success rate it’s ok for him. Interesting he considers Ukraine as same people.
They bombard Ukraine cities with aerosol bombs. That’s comparable to napalm. pure terror.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin has lots of missiles and bombs to spare, even with 10 percent success rate it’s ok for him. Interesting he considers Ukraine as same people.
> They bombard Ukraine cities with aerosol bombs. That’s comparable to napalm. pure terror.


Problem is, you can't just lob missile in the air and hope and pray you are hitting an enemy aircraft, it's better if they didn't hit anything, but hitting Civ Traffic, that would not go down well. MH-17 almost draw international forum in the Ukraine situation, if they did that, that would most definitely be western intervention.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559114360156471296


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559104562006573057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559106862771236864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559085606202126336

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soldier35

For an unknown reason, but one of the 2S7 "Pion" self-propelled guns of the Ukrainian army exploded when fired. It is not known what caused the explosion of the 2S7 Pion self-propelled guns, perhaps a defect in the projectile or depreciation of the equipment.






One of the officers of the special forces detachment of the militia "Storm" with the call sign "Batya Kharkiv", spoke about the tactics of the Ukrainian army and the defensive structures in the Avdeevka direction. (Video subtitles)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> How can you detect incoming aircraft or missile without radar? Given those objects are beyond visual range. If you don’t „see“ it you can’t detect it coming. Radar is like human eye. The other option is detecting or „seeing“ the heat signature of those flying objects. Aircraft and missiles are „hot“ objects they emit infrared or electromagnetic waves. Heat seaking sensor does the job.
> 
> There is passive radar to detect flying objects without emitting radar beams. However technically it is called radar too. SAM usually has both radar and heat seeking sensor. And of course a ground station guiding the interception. There is no other option. A bit of physics.


i said the E/O range for high altitude object is 75km and there is no emission in that mode
also you can use OTH radars for detecting incoming airplanes


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559096523820044288

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## gambit

Viet said:


> That is very complex system necessary. *Hensoldt and Aulus can do the detection without sending active radar beams.* There is no sender there is only receiver. A stealth plane like F35 can’t avoid being hit and reflected by UKW, DAB and DVB electromagnetic waves. Not yet.


There are transmissions. You just do not know basic radar principles and bought into the myth and hype of a 'passive' radar. No such beast. Like the unicorn and Sasquatch.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> HARM does NOT need emitting Radar, you, it's a beam riding missile, which mean you can fire at target with your own active radar which can lock any target it detected, whether or not it emits Radar Signature. You just don't know that is a SAM radar. Say a E-3A pick up a ground target, they can still use HARM, which have 150KM range to destroy it. IT does not need it to turn on. With Link 16, whatever the E-3A can ping, F-16 can shoot. You can verify with other means.


exactly which version is beam riding ? if you mean E-variant it have its own radar but is not beam riding the rest are passive radar homing and home on Jam and GPS-INS

and welcome trying to use that E3 for picking up a truck 150km away without that truck having any radar emission.



jhungary said:


> Tanks can't emit Radar Beam either, how do E-3A/Apache pick up where enemy tank were?
> 
> And I don't understand the argument for RQ-4 Global Hawk, that is not a stealth drone, which mean you can pick that up and shoot it down, you radar wasn't torched afterward may or may not be because of the US Air Force did not see you.


the 300-400km belong to aircrafts not tanks and certainly apachee cant pick up tanks even at 30-40km
the RQ4 being low rcs or not is debatable but have nothing to do with discussion , the airplane picked up by E/O system and then fired on without even turning on the radar so the countermeasure system on board was not activated at all


jhungary said:


> The difference is, we are not converting Standard Missile and Patriot missile for Ground Attack role, there are dual use Standard Missile that can target Air and Ship. But that is a design project. We aren't using them to attack shipping.
> 
> That show how desperate Russia need for Stand Off attack capability. And why not just convert the SCUD that was put in storage, if they can be reuse, I am pretty sure it's a lot less work than try to put S-300 on ground duty. That show you they can't do it. Which is my point.


S-300 advertised to being able hit target 10-15m above the ground , being able to hit ground target always was with the missile , it just was not advertised .


jhungary said:


> It's like saying your phone can be booted and on standby without emitting any signal..........


ever heard of flight mode?



jhungary said:


> In their mind,
> 
> They launch missile in EVERY SINGLE DIRECTION and hope the onboard sensor can lock onto something.
> 
> That's how accident happens tho.


ask that from the people on P-8 that was tailing RQ-4 and they tell you how many missile was fired and if they were aware of any air defense system active in the area


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> You mean this...???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sevom Khordad Air Defense Missile System | Military-Today.com
> 
> 
> Sevom Khordad, also known as 3rd Khordad, is the most advanced and powerful Iranian medium-range air defense missile system. It was officially displayed in 2016.
> 
> 
> 
> www.military-today.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sevom Khordad, also known as 3rd Khordad, is the most advanced and powerful Iranian medium-range air defense missile system. It was officially displayed in 2016. It uses a 6x6 wheeled chassis, based on IVECO commercial truck, though with many design changes. This air defense *system contains an active phased array radar* on top in the front part and three missiles behind it.​
> What is the radar used for?


for tracking target up to 150 km , for less than 75km the radar is not really needed, E/O and the radar on the missile can do the job


----------



## Viet

gambit said:


> There are transmissions. You just do not know basic radar principles and bought into the myth and hype of a 'passive' radar. No such beast. Like the unicorn and Sasquatch.


No transmission by radars. That is not classical radar. That’s not c band radar or something similar waves. Those radio waves are emitted by common radio stations. A stealth fighter like F35 disturbs the wave fronts when flying thru the wave soup.
The principle to passive radar was developed and deployed by Germany in WW2. German air defense was able to detect incoming British bombers. 
The vid is in German however the animations show how it works.









Ende der Tarnkappentechnik?


Passiv-Radar bedroht die Stealth-Technik, die Kampfflugzeuge bisher "unsichtbar" machte. Das könnte die militärische Feinaufklärung revolutionieren.




www.ardmediathek.de


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> exactly which version is beam riding ? if you mean E-variant it have its own radar but is not beam riding the rest are passive radar homing and home on Jam and GPS-INS


HARM itself is Beam Riding, it ride on an emission from Radar, it does not need to be enemy radar, Active Radar ping can also guide HARM missile. I am not talking about passive homing. 



Hack-Hook said:


> and welcome trying to use that E3 for picking up a truck 150km away without that truck having any radar emission.



Dude, that just mean you just don't know how powerful E-3A radar is. 



Hack-Hook said:


> the 300-400km belong to aircrafts not tanks and certainly apachee cant pick up tanks even at 30-40km
> the RQ4 being low rcs or not is debatable but have nothing to do with discussion , the airplane picked up by E/O system and then fired on without even turning on the radar so the countermeasure system on board was not activated at all



I am not talking about at range, I am talking about Radar can pick up ground target even if they are not emitting, by the way, Long Bow Apache can pick up a tank twice the range of Hellfire missile, which is 11 km away

RQ-4 is not low RCS, and no, again, just because they didn't react does not mean they didn't see it. 



Hack-Hook said:


> S-300 advertised to being able hit target 10-15m above the ground , being able to hit ground target always was with the missile , it just was not advertised .
> 
> ever heard of flight mode?



lol Air Brust missile is not the same as ground attack, you can hit something above ground does not mean you can hit it ACCURATELY. Do you know what is the CEP on S300 on ground target? You dont because they don't have a CEP value. 

Hence using S-300 for precision ground attack is an act of DESPERATION.



Hack-Hook said:


> ask that from the people on P-8 that was tailing RQ-4 and they tell you how many missile was fired and if they were aware of any air defense system active in the area



Firstly, P-8 is not an Early Warning plane. It was a Maritime attack aircraft. It's main job is to detect Submarine and Naval Traffic. 

Second of all, how do you know you have incoming if you turn off your radar? You need to have radar to know you have a bogey inbound, you are outside visual range, which mean unless you magically know there is an enemy aircraft coming, you will need to use the radar, and that is my point.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Viet said:


> How can you detect incoming aircraft or missile without radar? Given those objects are beyond visual range. If you don’t „see“ it you can’t detect it coming. Radar is like human eye. The other option is detecting or „seeing“ the heat signature of those flying objects. Aircraft and missiles are „hot“ objects they emit infrared or electromagnetic waves. Heat seaking sensor does the job.
> 
> There is passive radar to detect flying objects without emitting radar beams. However technically it is called radar too. SAM usually has both radar and heat seeking sensor. And of course a ground station guiding the interception. There is no other option. A bit of physics.


You can use data links if someone else in the defense network can detect the target. It is hard to hide that a jet aircraft is flying overhead, considering the noise of the engine. Once noise is detected, other sensors can pinpoint the target.
This of course assumes that data from a number of sensors can be fused.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Firstly, P-8 is not an Early Warning plane. It was a Maritime attack aircraft. It's main job is to detect Submarine and Naval Traffic.
> 
> Second of all, how do you know you have incoming if you turn off your radar? You need to have radar to know you have a bogey inbound, you are outside visual range, which mean unless you magically know there is an enemy aircraft coming, you will need to use the radar, and that is my point.


both P8 and RQ-4 designed to be able to detect enemy air defense don't forget one of the duty of P8 is intelligence , surveillance and reconnaissance and you can get data from many other source for example oth radars and e/o system , you even can use spotters if you most


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> lol Air Brust missile is not the same as ground attack, you can hit something above ground does not mean you can hit it ACCURATELY. Do you know what is the CEP on S300 on ground target? You dont because they don't have a CEP value.
> 
> Hence using S-300 for precision ground attack is an act of DESPERATION.


48n6 and 48N6P-01 have the capability of TVM guidance so its more precise than what you think



jhungary said:


> I am not talking about at range, I am talking about Radar can pick up ground target even if they are not emitting, by the way, Long Bow Apache can pick up a tank twice the range of Hellfire missile, which is 11 km away
> 
> RQ-4 is not low RCS, and no, again, just because they didn't react does not mean they didn't see it.


that would be 22km , if they saw it it has one of the most advanced counter measure system usa can provide and it didn't get deployed . so considering the price of the system......'



jhungary said:


> Dude, that just mean you just don't know how powerful E-3A radar is.


so tell me , but not that 300-400km that is against flying targets



jhungary said:


> HARM itself is Beam Riding, it ride on an emission from Radar, it does not need to be enemy radar, Active Radar ping can also guide HARM missile. I am not talking about passive homing.


again which variant do that.

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## Viet

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You can use data links if someone else in the defense network can detect the target. It is hard to hide that a jet aircraft is flying overhead, considering the noise of the engine. Once noise is detected, other sensors can pinpoint the target.
> This of course assumes that data from a number of sensors can be fused.


Yes ok if you can hear it then you „see“ it. However there is problem with a distance. The more you are far from the source the lesser you can hear the noise. The energy decreases proportional to the distance. Air is a bad conductor.
That’s unlike noise in water. You can hear the noise much further away. The energy is not losing fast unlike in air. Water is a good conductor.
That’s why submarines have acoustic sensor while aircraft haven’t.
We are off topic though.


----------



## dbc

Hack-Hook said:


> both P8 and RQ-4 designed to be able to detect enemy air defense don't forget one of the duty of P8 is intelligence , surveillance and reconnaissance and you can get data from many other source for example oth radars and e/o system , you even can use spotters if you most


can you take this discussion to another thread please? It's off-topic here.
thank you

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559177351304564737

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2


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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559233210940276738
Russian "no aircraft were lost" MOD recycling footage of precision strikes

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559230700959694848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559233821832351746

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Viet said:


> Yes ok if you can hear it then you „see“ it. However there is problem with a distance. The more you are far from the source the lesser you can hear the noise. The energy decreases proportional to the distance. Air is a bad conductor.
> That’s unlike noise in water. You can hear the noise much further away. The energy is not losing fast unlike in air. Water is a good conductor.
> That’s why submarines have acoustic sensor while aircraft haven’t.
> We are off topic though.











Acoustic mirror | Wikiwand


An acoustic mirror is a passive device used to reflect and focus sound waves. Parabolic acoustic mirrors are widely used in parabolic microphones to pick up sound from great distances, employed in surveillance and reporting of outdoor sporting events. Pairs of large parabolic acoustic mirrors...




www.wikiwand.com





When combined with digital signal processing and networked they can provide info to the defense network. If that information is used to guide cameras or IR sensors, triangulation can give good info on the position of both stealth and ordinary aircraft.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559227331771863040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559199866328342528


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559230700959694848
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559233821832351746




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559138624091955201

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559212619852029953

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558935851194793988


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559184289039896577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559209461343977474


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559212619852029953


Russia providing video evidence would be great. Maybe they hesitate to show the world what exactly Ukraine is targeting in this area.


----------



## aziqbal

MeFishToo said:


> Ukraine is defending and Russia is attacking. In my opinion Russia has no excuse firing anything from inside civilian infrastructure. Special operation “liberating” Ukraine..
> Liberation of Pisky. Very “precise“ use of thermobaric rockets. Im sure whos left are celebrating
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at this ghost town while remembering all these pro-russian propaganda post about Ukraine shelling Donetsk a few kilometers to the east. The russians have zero honor.



8 years of repeated warnings from Russia and the comedian thought it was just a joke 

Russia could have taken entire Donbas in 2014 and it would have been much easier at that time Ukraine was weak 

they said time and time again Ukraine cannot join EU and NATO 

imagine Alaska breaks away and invites Russia or Scotland breaks away and invites Russia 

and like cowards 50+ nations on one side and Mother Russia on the other and still they are hammering all the nations combined since no one has the guts to go on 1:1 

today they have taken central Bakhmut after taking control of the East and Pisky is now 90% under Russian control 

by end of August Bukhmut-Soledar-Severk 

and by September Kramatrosk-Slokiasnk 

and if Ukraine dont give up Odessa will be next, all the other cowards sending billons of dollars of equipment into Ukraine and the Soviet Steamroller just keeps rolling

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## MeFishToo

aziqbal said:


> 8 years of repeated warnings from Russia and the comedian thought it was just a joke
> 
> Russia could have taken entire Donbas in 2014 and it would have been much easier at that time Ukraine was weak
> 
> they said time and time again Ukraine cannot join EU and NATO
> 
> imagine Alaska breaks away and invites Russia or Scotland breaks away and invites Russia
> 
> and like cowards 50+ nations on one side and Mother Russia on the other and still they are hammering all the nations combined since no one has the guts to go on 1:1
> 
> today they have taken central Bakhmut after taking control of the East and Pisky is now 90% under Russian control
> 
> by end of August Bukhmut-Soledar-Severk
> 
> and by September Kramatrosk-Slokiasnk
> 
> and if Ukraine dont give up Odessa will be next, all the other cowards sending billons of dollars of equipment into Ukraine and the Soviet Steamroller just keeps rolling


Who cares what Putin demands.

Russia is struggling to conquer small villages, and youve fallen for the russian narrative. The democratic countries have provided small arms, and a few dozen heavy artillery systems, less than hundred towed artillery and some outdated Sovjet armoured vehicles and MBT. If that is all it takes to stall your mighty mother Russia, they should consider themself lucky those so called 50+ countries doesnt call Putins nuclear bluff and roll some “peace keepers” into Ukraine.

Let me predict something too. By september the russians are retreating from the western side of Dnieper River. Lets see how the russian public and the armed forces react to news like that.

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## The SC

Huffal said:


> Does anyone have some sort of map or something that would show the spread of radiation if that Nuclear power (zapro something) plant is hit and destroyed?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558417915782864896

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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559268618864656388
"lemme drive between those 2 destroyed BMPs"

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1


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## Irfan Baloch

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559227331771863040


Tal Shiar can not be mocked they take their job very seriously. the Russian MLRS might just be firing fireworks only.


----------



## MeFishToo

HorusRa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559268618864656388
> "lemme drive between those 2 destroyed BMPs"


Notice those 3 guys hiding in the bushes. Mustve been some of the crew from the destroyed BMPs? .. Guess the whole platoon is forced to walk back to Russia.

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## aziqbal

MeFishToo said:


> Who cares what Putin demands.
> 
> Russia is struggling to conquer small villages, and youve fallen for the russian narrative. The democratic countries have provided small arms, and a few dozen heavy artillery systems, less than hundred towed artillery and some outdated Sovjet armoured vehicles and MBT. If that is all it takes to stall your mighty mother Russia, they should consider themself lucky those so called 50+ countries doesnt call Putins nuclear bluff and roll some “peace keepers” into Ukraine.
> 
> Let me predict something too. By september the russians are retreating from the western side of Dnieper River. Lets see how the russian public and the armed forces react to news like that.



Soviet Union prepared itself for the European battlefield the flat open plains 

a area they know all too well, they are estimated to have over 40 million 122mm shells for their artillery systems 

another words they can keep firing at this rate for years probably decades 

US on other hand has built around 550 HIMARS and have stocked around 50,000 GMLRS

only 16 HIMSRS firing 2 times per day would use close to 6,000 missiles 

do you understand why now US doesnt want to give more HIMARS? they simply dont have enough missiles the burn rate is too high, a dozen is the most they can send 

GMLRS is a extremely expensive missile and build rate is very low even if US goes into a war footing and sends 100 x HIMSRS firing 2 times per day the entire US inventory would empty in 80 days


----------



## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559233821832351746


0.04 some sort of anti tank weapon is fired at the second armored vehicle from the trees to the right of the tank running over the anti tank mine.


----------



## MeFishToo

aziqbal said:


> Soviet Union prepared itself for the European battlefield the flat open plains
> 
> a area they know all too well, they are estimated to have over 40 million 122mm shells for their artillery systems
> 
> another words they can keep firing at this rate for years probably decades
> 
> US on other hand has built around 550 HIMARS and have stocked around 50,000 GMLRS
> 
> only 16 HIMSRS firing 2 times per day would use close to 6,000 missiles
> 
> do you understand why now US doesnt want to give more HIMARS? they simply dont have enough missiles the burn rate is too high, a dozen is the most they can send
> 
> GMLRS is a extremely expensive missile and build rate is very low even if US goes into a war footing and sends 100 x HIMSRS firing 2 times per day the entire US inventory would empty in 80 days


The sovjet union prepared to wage a war like its 1945. Welcome to the future. Notice how the russians are doing in ukraines flat open plains? The russian army is build to defend Russia. Forget about moving this giant collection of scrap metal into the rest of Europe. They cant even defeat a handfull of dedicated ukrainians hidding in hedgerows with some anti tank rockets, guided missiles and manpads.

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## aviator_fan

aziqbal said:


> 8 years of repeated warnings from Russia and the comedian thought it was just a joke
> 
> Russia could have taken entire Donbas in 2014 and it would have been much easier at that time Ukraine was weak
> 
> they said time and time again Ukraine cannot join EU and NATO
> 
> imagine Alaska breaks away and invites Russia or Scotland breaks away and invites Russia
> 
> and like cowards 50+ nations on one side and Mother Russia on the other and still they are hammering all the nations combined since no one has the guts to go on 1:1
> 
> today they have taken central Bakhmut after taking control of the East and Pisky is now 90% under Russian control
> 
> by end of August Bukhmut-Soledar-Severk
> 
> and by September Kramatrosk-Slokiasnk
> 
> and if Ukraine dont give up Odessa will be next, all the other cowards sending billons of dollars of equipment into Ukraine and the Soviet Steamroller just keeps rolling


Alaska is a bad example: US purchased it with gold and it was not a soverign country (minus a few 100 eskimos) so does not equate well.


Lets say your point is valid, that Russia wanted a buffer state and occupy it: was it worth it? Its oil supported economy will be on decline in a decade as transition from fossil accelerates. Its ability to source anything that needs a micro processor completely gone. Europeans put sweaters inside the house and deal with the winter, but how will Russia reign supremacy.

Regrettably, Putin fell into the same trap as Qaddaffi and Saddam: self-grandeur without realizing their true weaknesses because too many timid yes men surrounding them.


----------



## MeFishToo

aviator_fan said:


> Alaska is a bad example: US purchased it with gold and it was not a soverign country (minus a few 100 eskimos) so does not equate well.
> 
> 
> Lets say your point is valid, that Russia wanted a buffer state and occupy it: was it worth it? Its oil supported economy will be on decline in a decade as transition from fossil accelerates. Its ability to source anything that needs a micro processor completely gone. Europeans put sweaters inside the house and deal with the winter, but how will Russia reign supremacy.
> 
> Regrettably, Putin fell into the same trap as Qaddaffi and Saddam: self-grandeur without realizing their true weaknesses because too many timid yes men surrounding them.


Its a bad example because this has nothing to do with breakaway regions. Russia instigated, supported and participated in the so called uprising, chased away alot of ukrainians and oppressed the remaining civilians with puppet regimes to a point where nobody dares to do nothing but parroting the russian narrative.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559218213086547968

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559225136896774144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559270880945098758


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559230700959694848
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559233821832351746




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559294786850504706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559199866328342528

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian Missile rain tonight on Slavyansk and Kharkov.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559294107939479552
Holy moly, Zelensky is firing his regional SBU chiefs. Looks like the ship is unraveling. 👇 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559294107939479552

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1


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## Hamartia Antidote

Putin calls Russian arms ‘significantly superior’ to rivals


President Putin says Moscow’s weaponry is years ahead of rivals as his troops continue to battle in Ukraine.




www.aljazeera.com






Putin calls Russian arms ‘significantly superior’ to rivals​_President Vladimir Putin says Moscow’s weaponry is years ahead of rivals as his troops continue to battle in Ukraine._

 
Forever the comedian

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression in the EU is bogus. Here you have a young German journalist who tried to report on what is happening in Donbas to the rest of the world. The German authorities first froze her bank account(s) and then her father's and now her mother's bank accounts. Why kind of a system goes after the family of a journalist who all she has done is not to toe the line of West's narrative in Ukraine and Ukraine's criminal acts in the Donbas region? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559216362202988547

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559272202956046338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559254904752943104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559234355905675264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559235188114194433

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## gambit

Viet said:


> No transmission by radars. That is not classical radar. That’s not c band radar or something similar waves. Those radio waves are emitted by common radio stations. A stealth fighter like F35 disturbs the wave fronts when flying thru the wave soup.
> The principle to passive radar was developed and deployed by Germany in WW2. German air defense was able to detect incoming British bombers.
> The vid is in German however the animations show how it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ende der Tarnkappentechnik?
> 
> 
> Passiv-Radar bedroht die Stealth-Technik, die Kampfflugzeuge bisher "unsichtbar" machte. Das könnte die militärische Feinaufklärung revolutionieren.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ardmediathek.de


Finally, we are getting somewhere. Basic radar principles operate on *REFLECTIONS* and reflections can happen only if there is/are transmission source(s). If the radar is the transmission source, aka 'ownership', then the system is considered the 'classical' setup. But if the transmission source(s) are not from the system, then it operate on the bi-static or multi-static setup. The transmissions came from other sources such as common radio signals, TV, or even cosmic background radiation (CBR). The bi/multi-static setup is misleading called 'passive radar' when it should be technically correct as passive sensor or detector. There is no such animal as a 'passive radar'.

The idea is not new and neither is the attempted execution, but to date, no one has made a consistently successful system. The Ukrainian Kolchuga system have been discussed on this forum for ten yrs. I explained what it is, how it operate, and its weaknesses. And the Kolchuga have not been successful as how many PDF-ers predicted to be the end of 'stealth'. The US Lockheed Silent Sentry is another attempt and is largely backshelf. Other countries had their own attempts and they also relegated the idea to lower priority, little more than a feel good science projects.

Here is a simplified diagram of the bi/multi-static detector setup...







The Receiver does not own the Transmitter. The Transmitter can be anything from anyone. The Receiver simply pick up any reflections from any frequency and try to sort out what reflected signals represents what. Tactically speaking, gaps can be created by damaging/destroying the city's electrical sources or by broad spectrum EM jamming, just a couple examples.

Technically speaking, does the Receiver know the reflections came from a TV or radio source? That is critical because in the classical setup, the radar computer know exactly what it transmitted and analyze the reflections for the same signature. But with the Kolchuga and Silent Sentry systems, the Receiver must be able to discern TV from radio to cellular and if there are shipping activities nearby there would be marine safety radio signals in the mix. Do you see why the attempts are largely abandoned?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559202635206598657

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> for tracking target up to 150 km , for less than 75km the radar is not really needed, E/O and the radar on the missile can do the job


Good. So you admit that even E/O guidance needs initial radar guidance. One of the most tiring issue on this forum is the violations of the laws of physics and common sense by Chinese and Iranians, as in 'Chinese physics' and 'Iranian physics', and sometimes even 'Russian physics'.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559278360664178693

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2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559236129357971456


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559265068713394176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559233210940276738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559278822872293377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559240529350692864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559239774388584457
LMAO @F-22Raptor

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2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559236129357971456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558776327263735808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559225136896774144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559159567501729796

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559132569337270275

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559089433047187460


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> both P8 and RQ-4 designed to be able to detect enemy air defense don't forget one of the duty of P8 is intelligence , surveillance and reconnaissance and you can get data from many other source for example oth radars and e/o system , you even can use spotters if you most


lol, who told you about the job for P-8 is intelligence??

P-8A main role is for Naval Interdiction, the ISR capability are focused on Naval Asset. I don't think P-8 can detect Airborne Radar (Have to check with my friend that actually flew the P-8) and certainly they can do nothing about it other than launching chaff. 

And what are you supposing the P-8 Crew to do? Dog fight in a Boeing 737 with an SAM missile??

Dude, you probably confused between P-8A Poseidon and E-8 JSTAR. Or you probably just know shit about US equipment.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> 48n6 and 48N6P-01 have the capability of TVM guidance so its more precise than what you think



lol, TOW missile can be TVM guide, I would not consider TOW missile accurate.

And it wasn't designed to take out Ground target, so no, it would still be better to use SCUD if they can use them.

I still don't know why you are arguing with me in this. You are literally saying* if Russia have a choice*, they will rather convert SAM into Anti-Ground role instead of using existing in storage and usable (as you claim) SCUD missile. If you still think going thru all those work to convert a SAM is more worth it, then that mean the SCUD is shit and it wouldn't be able to do the job you claim they can do that's why it's better to convert S-300, so either way, it disproven your point. 



Hack-Hook said:


> that would be 22km , if they saw it it has one of the most advanced counter measure system usa can provide and it didn't get deployed . so considering the price of the system......'



Dude, this is not the point of my post, my point in that regard is Radar can pick up ground target that did not emit. Range is depending on the power of the Radar.



Hack-Hook said:


> so tell me , but not that 300-400km that is against flying targets



E-3 can pick up a pick up truck 200miles away, how do I know? I had personally ordered a strike on a HVT on a technical in Afghanistan using a E-3A radar guidance. 

I know* FOR A FACT *that they can do it.



Hack-Hook said:


> again which variant do that.


Do you know what Anti-Radiation in High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile?. Radiation is a beam of energy emitted from a radar. Again, IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE FROM AN ENEMY RADAR...........because Friendly Radar also emit radiation......Emission is both way, you have one that go from your source to your target, and the other go back from your target to your source......Or you don't know how Radar work??


----------



## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> I have explained on this forum yrs ago that there is no such animal as a 'passive' radar. All radars needs a transmission source so that make it no such thing as a 'passive' radar. You can bring up a web site that uses those words but that still does not make it technically true.


"In a passive radar system, *there is no dedicated transmitter*. Instead, the receiver uses third-party transmitters in the environment and measures the time difference of arrival between the signal arriving directly from the transmitter and the signal arriving via reflection from the object."


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Good. So you admit that even E/O guidance needs initial radar guidance. One of the most tiring issue on this forum is the violations of the laws of physics and common sense by Chinese and Iranians, as in 'Chinese physics' and 'Iranian physics', and sometimes even 'Russian physics'.


well not exactly , i said if the target is more than 70-75km , or for some reason use of E/O is not possible for example there is fog or dust and visibility is limited they use radar . otherwise they pretty much can use E/O and don\t turn on Radar. 


jhungary said:


> lol, who told you about the job for P-8 is intelligence??
> 
> P-8A main role is for Naval Interdiction, the ISR capability are focused on Naval Asset. I don't think P-8 can detect Airborne Radar (Have to check with my friend that actually flew the P-8) and certainly they can do nothing about it other than launching chaff.
> 
> And what are you supposing the P-8 Crew to do? Dog fight in a Boeing 737 with an SAM missile??
> 
> Dude, you probably confused between P-8A Poseidon and E-8 JSTAR. Or you probably just know shit about US equipment.


so you say RQ-4 and P8 don't have any electrical counter measure against enemy missiles. 


jhungary said:


> lol, TOW missile can be TVM guide, I would not consider TOW missile accurate.


here your definition divert from reality , those S-300 Strike, actually hit their targets


jhungary said:


> You are literally saying* if Russia have a choice*, they will rather convert SAM into Anti-Ground role instead of using existing in storage and usable (as you claim) SCUD missile. If you still think going thru all those work to convert a SAM is more worth it, then that mean the SCUD is shit and it wouldn't be able to do the job you claim they can do that's why it's better to convert S-300, so either way, it disproven your point.


do you deny SCUD is shit ? turning scud into something that come 100m against target is harder than building new missile , just some modification to the targetting software allow S-30 missiles hit ground target.


jhungary said:


> Dude, this is not the point of my post, my point in that regard is Radar can pick up ground target that did not emit. Range is depending on the power of the Radar


and my point is at what range .


jhungary said:


> E-3 can pick up a pick up truck 200miles away, how do I know? I had personally ordered a strike on a HVT on a technical in Afghanistan using a E-3A radar guidance.
> 
> I know* FOR A FACT *that they can do it.


if you say so


jhungary said:


> lol, TOW missile can be TVM guide, I would not consider TOW missile accurate.
> 
> And it wasn't designed to take out Ground target, so no, it would still be better to use SCUD if they can use them.
> 
> I still don't know why you are arguing with me in this. You are literally saying* if Russia have a choice*, they will rather convert SAM into Anti-Ground role instead of using existing in storage and usable (as you claim) SCUD missile. If you still think going thru all those work to convert a SAM is more worth it, then that mean the SCUD is shit and it wouldn't be able to do the job you claim they can do that's why it's better to convert S-300, so either way, it disproven your point.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, this is not the point of my post, my point in that regard is Radar can pick up ground target that did not emit. Range is depending on the power of the Radar.
> 
> 
> 
> E-3 can pick up a pick up truck 200miles away, how do I know? I had personally ordered a strike on a HVT on a technical in Afghanistan using a E-3A radar guidance.
> 
> I know* FOR A FACT *that they can do it.
> 
> 
> Do you know what Anti-Radiation in High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile?. Radiation is a beam of energy emitted from a radar. Again, IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE FROM AN ENEMY RADAR...........because Friendly Radar also emit radiation......Emission is both way, you have one that go from your source to your target, and the other go back from your target to your source......Or you don't know how Radar work??


no the radiation in this case can't be from your radar.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559143998811422722

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559164992963895300

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

gambit said:


> Finally, we are getting somewhere. Basic radar principles operate on *REFLECTIONS* and reflections can happen only if there is/are transmission source(s). If the radar is the transmission source, aka 'ownership', then the system is considered the 'classical' setup. But if the transmission source(s) are not from the system, then it operate on the bi-static or multi-static setup. The transmissions came from other sources such as common radio signals, TV, or even cosmic background radiation (CBR). The bi/multi-static setup is misleading called 'passive radar' when it should be technically correct as passive sensor or detector. There is no such animal as a 'passive radar'.
> 
> The idea is not new and neither is the attempted execution, but to date, no one has made a consistently successful system. The Ukrainian Kolchuga system have been discussed on this forum for ten yrs. I explained what it is, how it operate, and its weaknesses. And the Kolchuga have not been successful as how many PDF-ers predicted to be the end of 'stealth'. The US Lockheed Silent Sentry is another attempt and is largely backshelf. Other countries had their own attempts and they also relegated the idea to lower priority, little more than a feel good science projects.
> 
> Here is a simplified diagram of the bi/multi-static detector setup...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Receiver does not own the Transmitter. The Transmitter can be anything from anyone. The Receiver simply pick up any reflections from any frequency and try to sort out what reflected signals represents what. Tactically speaking, gaps can be created by damaging/destroying the city's electrical sources or by broad spectrum EM jamming, just a couple examples.
> 
> Technically speaking, does the Receiver know the reflections came from a TV or radio source? That is critical because in the classical setup, the radar computer know exactly what it transmitted and analyze the reflections for the same signature. But with the Kolchuga and Silent Sentry systems, the Receiver must be able to discern TV from radio to cellular and if there are shipping activities nearby there would be marine safety radio signals in the mix. Do you see why the attempts are largely abandoned?


There are passive radars in operations. the companies that make it call it passive radars. Passive radars have no transmitters. Passive radars are technically very complex, require high computing power. You can deny there is no passive radar. We can agree to disagree.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> so you say RQ-4 and P8 don't have any electrical counter measure against enemy missiles.



What electricial counter measure?

You mean Jamming? No.


Hack-Hook said:


> here your definition divert from reality , those S-300 Strike, actually hit their targets



Well, they hit a mall, when their supposed target is arms factory 1000 meters away. You are going to hit something when you fire missile into the ground, just what you hit is the question here.



Hack-Hook said:


> do you deny SCUD is shit ? turning scud into something that come 100m against target is harder than building new missile , just some modification to the targetting software allow S-30 missiles hit ground target.



S-300 is "UNTESTED" on ground target before they use it, and CEP aren't really that good judging from their target list and what they are hitting.

Whether or not SCUD is shit is beside the point, the point is you would rather use something that you can use immediately and not try to convert something into the role, because it is not at all easy to do, it's not like they put a GPS tracker on the missile and that's it.

Going back to your question, if Russia is that desperate to try to convert a S-300, they would have used SCUD for ground attack before it come to that point, again, when they did that, that mean either SCUD storm is shit (your other point) or they have no choice (My point)



Hack-Hook said:


> and my point is at what range .



Why range is a matter if you are talking about turning the radar off on a target BEYOND visual range?

Can you see the enemy coming 22km away?



Hack-Hook said:


> if you say so



Most of your point is also "If you say so"



Hack-Hook said:


> no the radiation in this case can't be from your radar.



Tell me why it can't?

Fighter and AWACS can communicate with each other, by communicate, I don't mean talk between Pilot. In my old M2 Bradley, we have something called Link 2 system, which when one of my other Bradley saw a target, it can mark that target down manually and it will appear in my fire control computer screen, and I can target that enemy even if I am not seeing them.

That's Link 2 (Maybe Link 3, I forgot, well, it's 20 years ago), 20 years ago, AWACS have link 16 that can pipe down target solution to fighter plane and guide them by actively "Beaming" the target, it will as if you are beaming the target with laser pod yourself. So, it can come from someone else radar,


----------



## Viet

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Putin calls Russian arms ‘significantly superior’ to rivals
> 
> 
> President Putin says Moscow’s weaponry is years ahead of rivals as his troops continue to battle in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin calls Russian arms ‘significantly superior’ to rivals​_President Vladimir Putin says Moscow’s weaponry is years ahead of rivals as his troops continue to battle in Ukraine._


He says so because Russia arms export collapsing.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression in the EU is bogus. Here you have a young German journalist who tried to report on what is happening in Donbas to the rest of the world. The German authorities first froze her bank account(s) and then her father's and now her mother's bank accounts. Why kind of a system goes after the family of a journalist who all she has done is not to toe the line of West's narrative in Ukraine and Ukraine's criminal acts in the Donbas region?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559216362202988547


And that is of course a lie. She is suspected of supporting Russian war crimes.

*








Info-Krieg – Alina Lipp verbreitet Putins Propaganda in EU


Die Deutsch-Russin Alina Lipp inszeniert sich als "unabhängige deutsche Journalistin". Das ist sie aber nicht, wie eine Analyse ihrer Berichte zeigt.




www.heute.at




*
Google translate:


With her Telegram account "News from Russia" Alina Lipp now reaches more than 178,000 people. But above all, they read Russian war propaganda here - often unconsciously. This is how the "daughter of a Hamburg woman and a St. Petersburgers" the war in Ukraine, following the Kremlin narrative, as "Russian special operation in Ukraine." The word "liberation" also comes up again and again.

All current developments on the Ukraine war at a glance >

On the basis of such statements, the German authorities are now investigating them. *The accused are suspected of rewarding and approving crimes, according to the letter informing the 28-year-old of the investigation by the Lüneburg Public Prosecutor's Office.*

As an example, two acts are named in it: that on the 24th. February posted the sentence "*The denazification has begun*" and on the 12th. March in a video claimed that the Russian troops "liberate" a region affected by a "*genocide by the Ukrainians.*"

"Party Justice"

Lipp shares the writing in a video that has been circulating on social media for a few days. She shows incomprehension for the investigation. On her UK account, she specifies her accusation: "They will condemn me because I told the truth." Because according to German law, "only one-sided information may be passed on in favor of the authorities. Anything that contradicts this will be punished by the partisan judiciary." A lie.

Read more: ORF icon gives oppressive TV appearance from Moscow

In the video itself, Lipp introduces herself as an "independent German journalist." The fact that *she does not report neutrally about the war in Ukraine*, but clearly takes a stand for the Russian side with her own or shared telegram contributions, does not seem to see it as a break. Also, the fact that she follows the Kremlin view that the West pursues censorship does not seem to be a contradiction to her portrayal as an "independent" journalist.

Many indications for Kremlin proximity

The look at her Telegram channel also shows how close the German-Russin is with Russia: She repeatedly posts photos of encounters there - for example, of the one with the head of the information and press department and spokeswoman for the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Maria Zakharova, in September 2021. A meeting with Thomas Röper, who is considered a faithful spreader of disinformation, is also documented. In the description, Lipp describes him as a "favorite colleague."

In addition, the 28-year-old wears a T-shirt with a large "Z" on her chest in at least one video, which has become a symbol of Putin supporters in recent months:

"Russian girl" becomes "German journalist"

It is striking that the German-Russin describes herself as a "German journalist" in the current clip. Because in the past, she liked to call herself in the hashtags for her Instagram posts. Under a photo of yourself in "Military women's shoes" from the 13th. In November, she posts the hashtags #military and #soldier in Russian, among other things.

Read more: Completely different - this is how Russians experience the Ukraine war on TV

According to Correctiv.org, the use of both languages is no coincidence: Lipp has a double role. On the one hand, it brings pro-Russian war propaganda closer to a predominantly German audience. On the other hand, she paints for her Russian- and English-speaking audiences the image of a gloomy Germany in which freedom of expression does not exist."

Who is Alina Lipp?

Born and raised in Germany, she came to Crimea in 2016 for a research project at a branch of Moscow's Lomonosov University, where her father also emigrated. For her studies, she returned to Germany again, where she was active with the Greens until 2020. Lipp then left the party because it was too "anti-Russian" for her. She has been running the YouTube channel "Happy in Crimea" since 2019.

In November 2021, she moved to Donetsk shortly after meeting one of the central figures of Russian propaganda with Maria Sakharova. She also founded the Telegram channel "News from Russia" in November.

Today, *Lipp is considered one of the most important voices of Russian propaganda in Germany*. It operates channels under various names on Instagram, Telegram and Youtube, among others. Lipp is also chairman of the Kremlin-friendly association Friends of Crimea Germany.

———-

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Viet said:


> There are passive radars in operations. the companies that make it call it passive radars. Passive radars have no transmitters. Passive radars are technically very complex, require high computing power. You can deny there is no passive radar. We can agree to disagree.


To be fair, the term RADAR implies its always have to be active, RADAR is not actually a word, but an acronym for *radio detection and ranging. *

Which mean if there are radar that can detect without emitting, it would not technically be called a radar.....

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Oldman1

aziqbal said:


> 8 years of repeated warnings from Russia and the comedian thought it was just a joke
> 
> Russia could have taken entire Donbas in 2014 and it would have been much easier at that time Ukraine was weak
> 
> they said time and time again Ukraine cannot join EU and NATO
> 
> imagine Alaska breaks away and invites Russia or Scotland breaks away and invites Russia
> 
> and like cowards 50+ nations on one side and Mother Russia on the other and still they are hammering all the nations combined since no one has the guts to go on 1:1
> 
> today they have taken central Bakhmut after taking control of the East and Pisky is now 90% under Russian control
> 
> by end of August Bukhmut-Soledar-Severk
> 
> and by September Kramatrosk-Slokiasnk
> 
> and if Ukraine dont give up Odessa will be next, all the other cowards sending billons of dollars of equipment into Ukraine and the Soviet Steamroller just keeps rolling


Sure Russia could have taken entire Donbas but then it would make them look bad. Considering they had to use deception with Green Men disguise as Ukrainian troops to make them look like they broke away from Ukraine instead of wearing Russian insignia. And invading Donbas with "volunteers" of Russian troops was another method of trying to take territory with fewer losses, but Putin decided he wants to go all in after fighting for so long behind the curtain. It was long enough for U.S. and rest of NATO to help Ukraine train and learn equipment. The invasion sped things up. Ukrainians learn quick with equipment they weren't usually going to get.

Reactions: Like Like:

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----------



## Viet

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And that is of course a lie. She is suspected of supporting Russian war crimes.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Info-Krieg – Alina Lipp verbreitet Putins Propaganda in EU
> 
> 
> Die Deutsch-Russin Alina Lipp inszeniert sich als "unabhängige deutsche Journalistin". Das ist sie aber nicht, wie eine Analyse ihrer Berichte zeigt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.heute.at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Google translate:
> 
> 
> With her Telegram account "News from Russia" Alina Lipp now reaches more than 178,000 people. But above all, they read Russian war propaganda here - often unconsciously. This is how the "daughter of a Hamburg woman and a St. Petersburgers" the war in Ukraine, following the Kremlin narrative, as "Russian special operation in Ukraine." The word "liberation" also comes up again and again.
> 
> All current developments on the Ukraine war at a glance >
> 
> On the basis of such statements, the German authorities are now investigating them. *The accused are suspected of rewarding and approving crimes, according to the letter informing the 28-year-old of the investigation by the Lüneburg Public Prosecutor's Office.*
> 
> As an example, two acts are named in it: that on the 24th. February posted the sentence "*The denazification has begun*" and on the 12th. March in a video claimed that the Russian troops "liberate" a region affected by a "*genocide by the Ukrainians.*"
> 
> "Party Justice"
> 
> Lipp shares the writing in a video that has been circulating on social media for a few days. She shows incomprehension for the investigation. On her UK account, she specifies her accusation: "They will condemn me because I told the truth." Because according to German law, "only one-sided information may be passed on in favor of the authorities. Anything that contradicts this will be punished by the partisan judiciary." A lie.
> 
> Read more: ORF icon gives oppressive TV appearance from Moscow
> 
> In the video itself, Lipp introduces herself as an "independent German journalist." The fact that *she does not report neutrally about the war in Ukraine*, but clearly takes a stand for the Russian side with her own or shared telegram contributions, does not seem to see it as a break. Also, the fact that she follows the Kremlin view that the West pursues censorship does not seem to be a contradiction to her portrayal as an "independent" journalist.
> 
> Many indications for Kremlin proximity
> 
> The look at her Telegram channel also shows how close the German-Russin is with Russia: She repeatedly posts photos of encounters there - for example, of the one with the head of the information and press department and spokeswoman for the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Maria Zakharova, in September 2021. A meeting with Thomas Röper, who is considered a faithful spreader of disinformation, is also documented. In the description, Lipp describes him as a "favorite colleague."
> 
> In addition, the 28-year-old wears a T-shirt with a large "Z" on her chest in at least one video, which has become a symbol of Putin supporters in recent months:
> 
> "Russian girl" becomes "German journalist"
> 
> It is striking that the German-Russin describes herself as a "German journalist" in the current clip. Because in the past, she liked to call herself in the hashtags for her Instagram posts. Under a photo of yourself in "Military women's shoes" from the 13th. In November, she posts the hashtags #military and #soldier in Russian, among other things.
> 
> Read more: Completely different - this is how Russians experience the Ukraine war on TV
> 
> According to Correctiv.org, the use of both languages is no coincidence: Lipp has a double role. On the one hand, it brings pro-Russian war propaganda closer to a predominantly German audience. On the other hand, she paints for her Russian- and English-speaking audiences the image of a gloomy Germany in which freedom of expression does not exist."
> 
> Who is Alina Lipp?
> 
> Born and raised in Germany, she came to Crimea in 2016 for a research project at a branch of Moscow's Lomonosov University, where her father also emigrated. For her studies, she returned to Germany again, where she was active with the Greens until 2020. Lipp then left the party because it was too "anti-Russian" for her. She has been running the YouTube channel "Happy in Crimea" since 2019.
> 
> In November 2021, she moved to Donetsk shortly after meeting one of the central figures of Russian propaganda with Maria Sakharova. She also founded the Telegram channel "News from Russia" in November.
> 
> Today, *Lipp is considered one of the most important voices of Russian propaganda in Germany*. It operates channels under various names on Instagram, Telegram and Youtube, among others. Lipp is also chairman of the Kremlin-friendly association Friends of Crimea Germany.
> 
> ———-


She is just a dumb Russian stooge. Ah there are enough dumb stooges from facist to communist, leftists to rightists. If we gave them freedom they can do what they want to do then we would have the jungle. The leftists want revolution the rightists want the return of der Führer.


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Ok but passive radars can do the same thing as active radars. They can detect flying objects, determine the bearing, the range, the size.


You can do that with most ELINT, SATINT and SIGINT. I know of a passive way to detect aircraft in trial in (I want to say Kansas Airport) is to use geospatial and wind to detect aircraft, but as I said, technically, those won't be radar.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> To be fair, the term RADAR implies its always have to be active, RADAR is not actually a word, but an acronym for *radio detection and ranging. *
> 
> Which mean if there are radar that can detect without emitting, it would not technically be called a radar.....


Ok but passive radars can do the same thing as active radars. They can detect flying objects, determine the bearing, the range, the speed, the size. If comparing to active radar it’s hard to impossible for the enemy to detect because it emits no active radar beams. A good thing.
But to be fair too. There is no good passive radar yet. All still in infancy. Will take time.


----------



## NotSure

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And that is of course a lie. She is suspected of supporting Russian war crimes.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Info-Krieg – Alina Lipp verbreitet Putins Propaganda in EU
> 
> 
> Die Deutsch-Russin Alina Lipp inszeniert sich als "unabhängige deutsche Journalistin". Das ist sie aber nicht, wie eine Analyse ihrer Berichte zeigt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.heute.at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Google translate:
> 
> 
> With her Telegram account "News from Russia" Alina Lipp now reaches more than 178,000 people. But above all, they read Russian war propaganda here - often unconsciously. This is how the "daughter of a Hamburg woman and a St. Petersburgers" the war in Ukraine, following the Kremlin narrative, as "Russian special operation in Ukraine." The word "liberation" also comes up again and again.
> 
> All current developments on the Ukraine war at a glance >
> 
> On the basis of such statements, the German authorities are now investigating them. *The accused are suspected of rewarding and approving crimes, according to the letter informing the 28-year-old of the investigation by the Lüneburg Public Prosecutor's Office.*
> 
> As an example, two acts are named in it: that on the 24th. February posted the sentence "*The denazification has begun*" and on the 12th. March in a video claimed that the Russian troops "liberate" a region affected by a "*genocide by the Ukrainians.*"
> 
> "Party Justice"
> 
> Lipp shares the writing in a video that has been circulating on social media for a few days. She shows incomprehension for the investigation. On her UK account, she specifies her accusation: "They will condemn me because I told the truth." Because according to German law, "only one-sided information may be passed on in favor of the authorities. Anything that contradicts this will be punished by the partisan judiciary." A lie.
> 
> Read more: ORF icon gives oppressive TV appearance from Moscow
> 
> In the video itself, Lipp introduces herself as an "independent German journalist." The fact that *she does not report neutrally about the war in Ukraine*, but clearly takes a stand for the Russian side with her own or shared telegram contributions, does not seem to see it as a break. Also, the fact that she follows the Kremlin view that the West pursues censorship does not seem to be a contradiction to her portrayal as an "independent" journalist.
> 
> Many indications for Kremlin proximity
> 
> The look at her Telegram channel also shows how close the German-Russin is with Russia: She repeatedly posts photos of encounters there - for example, of the one with the head of the information and press department and spokeswoman for the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Maria Zakharova, in September 2021. A meeting with Thomas Röper, who is considered a faithful spreader of disinformation, is also documented. In the description, Lipp describes him as a "favorite colleague."
> 
> In addition, the 28-year-old wears a T-shirt with a large "Z" on her chest in at least one video, which has become a symbol of Putin supporters in recent months:
> 
> "Russian girl" becomes "German journalist"
> 
> It is striking that the German-Russin describes herself as a "German journalist" in the current clip. Because in the past, she liked to call herself in the hashtags for her Instagram posts. Under a photo of yourself in "Military women's shoes" from the 13th. In November, she posts the hashtags #military and #soldier in Russian, among other things.
> 
> Read more: Completely different - this is how Russians experience the Ukraine war on TV
> 
> According to Correctiv.org, the use of both languages is no coincidence: Lipp has a double role. On the one hand, it brings pro-Russian war propaganda closer to a predominantly German audience. On the other hand, she paints for her Russian- and English-speaking audiences the image of a gloomy Germany in which freedom of expression does not exist."
> 
> Who is Alina Lipp?
> 
> Born and raised in Germany, she came to Crimea in 2016 for a research project at a branch of Moscow's Lomonosov University, where her father also emigrated. For her studies, she returned to Germany again, where she was active with the Greens until 2020. Lipp then left the party because it was too "anti-Russian" for her. She has been running the YouTube channel "Happy in Crimea" since 2019.
> 
> In November 2021, she moved to Donetsk shortly after meeting one of the central figures of Russian propaganda with Maria Sakharova. She also founded the Telegram channel "News from Russia" in November.
> 
> Today, *Lipp is considered one of the most important voices of Russian propaganda in Germany*. It operates channels under various names on Instagram, Telegram and Youtube, among others. Lipp is also chairman of the Kremlin-friendly association Friends of Crimea Germany.
> 
> ———-


Wow, nice copypasting. She shows the russian view and this alone is a though crime here in the so called free west. I quote myself:


NotSure said:


> They are trying to put her in jail for "undermining the legitimacy of the press". This is what the state prosecutor literally said:









I can only laugh at phrases like: "*she does not report neutrally about the war in Ukraine*".

WHO reports neutrally about this war? The west, parroting retarded claims about russian soldiers are shelling themselves at the nuclear popwerplant? Or the antipersonnel mines in Donezk? The ghost ov Kiev maybe? Butcha? Etc. etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559398876163051520
New explosion in Crimea. Someone ought to tell the orcs to stop smoking near ammo depots.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

*Another huge blast rocks Crimea*









Fireball erupts at ammunition depot in Crimea days after explosions


Video purportedly shows a huge fireball explosion at a temporary military storage facility in the village of Mayskoye near the city of Dzhankoi in northern Crimea.




www.dailymail.co.uk

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559450891689795587

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559423568865366016


----------



## Viet

NotSure said:


> Wow, nice copypasting. She shows the russian view and this alone is a though crime here in the so called free west. I quote myself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can only laugh at phrases like: "*she does not report neutrally about the war in Ukraine*".
> 
> WHO reports neutrally about this war? The west, parroting retarded claims about russian soldiers are shelling themselves at the nuclear popwerplant? Or the antipersonnel mines in Donezk? The ghost ov Kiev maybe? Butcha? Etc. etc.


You mean whatever you want you can do? run naked in public because the West is liberal everything is allowed? She is a dumb propaganda stooge. Why she doesn’t call war as war? Too afraid of Putin? She doesn’t want to end in a gulag?

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559423383019761664


----------



## NotSure

Viet said:


> You mean whatever you want you can do? run naked in public because the West is liberal everything is allowed? She is a dumb propaganda stooge. Why she doesn’t call war as war? Too afraid of Putin? She doesn’t want to end in a gulag?


"She is a dumb propaganda stooge." - That is a perfectly fine description of yourself and our so called free western press(titutes). You are even claiming Russia is shelling it's own troops at the nuclear powerplant, or Donezk with anti personnel mines, or ... there is literally no antirussian propaganda garbage stupid enough for you, to not parrot it here.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> What electricial counter measure?
> 
> You mean Jamming? No.


rq4 have a towed decoy that do everything usa knew how to made the missile go after the decoy


jhungary said:


> What electricial counter measure?
> 
> You mean Jamming? No.
> 
> 
> Well, they hit a mall, when their supposed target is arms factory 1000 meters away. You are going to hit something when you fire missile into the ground, just what you hit is the question here.
> 
> 
> 
> S-300 is "UNTESTED" on ground target before they use it, and CEP aren't really that good judging from their target list and what they are hitting.
> 
> Whether or not SCUD is shit is beside the point, the point is you would rather use something that you can use immediately and not try to convert something into the role, because it is not at all easy to do, it's not like they put a GPS tracker on the missile and that's it.
> 
> Going back to your question, if Russia is that desperate to try to convert a S-300, they would have used SCUD for ground attack before it come to that point, again, when they did that, that mean either SCUD storm is shit (your other point) or they have no choice (My point)
> 
> 
> 
> Why range is a matter if you are talking about turning the radar off on a target BEYOND visual range?
> 
> Can you see the enemy coming 22km away?
> 
> 
> 
> Most of your point is also "If you say so"
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me why it can't?
> 
> Fighter and AWACS can communicate with each other, by communicate, I don't mean talk between Pilot. In my old M2 Bradley, we have something called Link 2 system, which when one of my other Bradley saw a target, it can mark that target down manually and it will appear in my fire control computer screen, and I can target that enemy even if I am not seeing them.
> 
> That's Link 2 (Maybe Link 3, I forgot, well, it's 20 years ago), 20 years ago, AWACS have link 16 that can pipe down target solution to fighter plane and guide them by actively "Beaming" the target, it will as if you are beaming the target with laser pod yourself. So, it can come from someone else radar,


because beam riding is something else by definition 
in beam riding you must lock your radar in all the length of flight on target and the missile fly inside that narrow beam , Harm simply don't work like that.






jhungary said:


> Most of your point is also "If you say so"


and yours I knew so


----------



## Soldier35

At about 6:00 am, an ammunition depot detonated near the village of Maiskoye in the Dzhankoysky district of Crimea. Now the area is cordoned off, local residents were evacuated for a five-kilometer zone. The cause of the explosions and fire at the ammunition depot in the Crimea is being investigated. Version and sabotage are not excluded






In the Kherson region, teenagers found a machine gun and a Mukha grenade launcher and accidentally fired from it






The crew of the Russian Tor-M2 air defense system spoke about their combat work in Ukraine and the interception of the Ukrainian tactical missile of the Tochka-U complex. Shooting down a ballistic missile is a difficult task for an air defense system of this class.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> To be fair, the term RADAR implies its always have to be active, RADAR is not actually a word, but an acronym for *radio detection and ranging. *


not exactly , you can do that from reflection of unrelated radio tower on the surface of the airplane , by knowing its position you can detect the range and existence of your target


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559517270979796993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559498721683210240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559496715568390146

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Viet

NotSure said:


> "She is a dumb propaganda stooge." - That is a perfectly fine description of yourself and our so called free western press(titutes). You are even claiming Russia is shelling it's own troops at the nuclear powerplant, or Donezk with anti personnel mines, or ... there is literally no antirussian propaganda garbage stupid enough for you, to not parrot it here.


Sorry lame excuses
She is a liar. She promotes aggression. As such she is banned, her money confiscated like other racists and facists.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> not exactly , you can do that from reflection of unrelated radio tower on the surface of the airplane , by knowing its position you can detect the range and existence of your target


I don't know where to tell you how WRONG this is......


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559528577208619019

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559531686437732354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559500424461389824

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559219180284649474

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559444430729396225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559447593381494784


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559506842774114304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559517009221763072


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559528577208619019
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559531686437732354
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559500424461389824





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559517384024653828

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> *not exactly* , you can do that from reflection of unrelated radio tower on the surface of the airplane , by knowing its position you can detect the range and existence of your target


What do you mean "not exactly" ? What he described is exactly what the initials RADAR meant. It is irrelevant if the transmission source is owned or not owned. There *MUST* active EM waves somehow in order for reflections to work. You are so desperate to salvage your argument that you are now treading into the 'Iranian physics' territory.


----------



## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> because beam riding is something else by definition
> in beam riding you must lock your radar in all the length of flight on target and *the missile fly inside that narrow beam* , Harm simply don't work like that.


No. The HARM can use *ANY* part of the radar beam, including and especially the *SIDELOBES*.





__





AGM-88 HARM (high-speed antiradiation missile) - Smart Weapons






man.fas.org





The HARM missile has a terminal homing capability that provides a launch and leave capability for the launch aircraft. Additional unique features include the high speed, low smoke, rocket motor and seeker sensitivity that enable the missile to easily *attack sidelobes and backlobes of an emitter.*​
A radar beam have multiple components and not all of the beam is used. Your illustration have sidelobes that most radar systems do not use because the sidelobes are weak and usually contaminated. But an ARM attacker does not care. The sidelobes are good enough as a source.

Fivenines of antennas leaks to the rear and those leakage signals are called 'backlobes'.









ANTENNA LOBE SUPPRESSION. VOLUME 1. MODIFICATION OF HORN ANTENNAS FOR LOW SIDELOBE LEVELS


Four modified horn antennas with greatly reduced backlobes are described. The principal method of reducing backlobes consists of preventing the energy from illuminating the edges from which it is diffracted into the back regions. The mechanism for forcing energy away from these edges is the use...



apps.dtic.mil





Four modified horn antennas with greatly reduced *backlobes* are described. The principal method of reducing backlobes consists of preventing the energy from illuminating the edges from which it is diffracted into the back regions.​
That mean even if the antenna is pointed away from the SEAD/DEAD fighter, the antenna's backlobes are sufficiently strong enough for the HARM to use. The backlobes create the SEAD/DEAD diversionary tactic where one fighter is out of missile range but within radar range and the other fighter attack the backlobes.

The newer HARM today have their own millimeter wave radar to perform their own beamriding. All HARMs are beamriders no matter their source transmissions.

Please...We are masters at this...


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

NotSure said:


> Wow, nice copypasting. She shows the russian view and this alone is a though crime here in the so called free west. I quote myself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can only laugh at phrases like: "*she does not report neutrally about the war in Ukraine*".
> 
> WHO reports neutrally about this war? The west, parroting retarded claims about russian soldiers are shelling themselves at the nuclear popwerplant? Or the antipersonnel mines in Donezk? The ghost ov Kiev maybe? Butcha? Etc. etc.


The key thing is that she is not sanctioned because she reports on Ukrainan losses. She is sanctioned because she is an integral part of the illegal invasion.


----------



## Michel Niesten

It seems today was a bad day in occupied Crimea. Gvardiyske airbase seems to have been hit by missile strike. A satellite photo from before the attack shows a lot of Su-30/Su-24 at the base. Tomorrow hopefully some after-incident photos emerge

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> What do you mean "not exactly" ? What he described is exactly what the initials RADAR meant. It is irrelevant if the transmission source is owned or not owned. There *MUST* active EM waves somehow in order for reflections to work. You are so desperate to salvage your argument that you are now treading into the 'Iranian physics' territory.


dear gambit my argument is there are some SAM out there that don't need RADAR and i stand by it ,as i said radar is good but you can manage without it and let at the last seconds this do the job




the discussion here is for detecting airplane you need a traditional radar , that both send and receive radio signals . i say no there are some radars that rely on ambient waves like radio waves from radio tower and such. if they now the position of the original tower , then they can do a lot by receiving the reflection of those waves. 

can you explain to me which part of those statement are wrong


----------



## HorusRa

Michel Niesten said:


> It seems today was a bad day in occupied Crimea. Gvardiyske airbase seems to have been hit by missile strike. A satellite photo from before the attack shows a lot of Su-30/Su-24 at the base. Tomorrow hopefully some after-incident photos emerge
> View attachment 871124



Tankies on suicide watch.


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> No. The HARM can use *ANY* part of the radar beam, including and especially the *SIDELOBES*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGM-88 HARM (high-speed antiradiation missile) - Smart Weapons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> man.fas.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The HARM missile has a terminal homing capability that provides a launch and leave capability for the launch aircraft. Additional unique features include the high speed, low smoke, rocket motor and seeker sensitivity that enable the missile to easily *attack sidelobes and backlobes of an emitter.*​
> A radar beam have multiple components and not all of the beam is used. Your illustration have sidelobes that most radar systems do not use because the sidelobes are weak and usually contaminated. But an ARM attacker does not care. The sidelobes are good enough as a source.
> 
> Fivenines of antennas leaks to the rear and those leakage signals are called 'backlobes'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ANTENNA LOBE SUPPRESSION. VOLUME 1. MODIFICATION OF HORN ANTENNAS FOR LOW SIDELOBE LEVELS
> 
> 
> Four modified horn antennas with greatly reduced backlobes are described. The principal method of reducing backlobes consists of preventing the energy from illuminating the edges from which it is diffracted into the back regions. The mechanism for forcing energy away from these edges is the use...
> 
> 
> 
> apps.dtic.mil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four modified horn antennas with greatly reduced *backlobes* are described. The principal method of reducing backlobes consists of preventing the energy from illuminating the edges from which it is diffracted into the back regions.​
> That mean even if the antenna is pointed away from the SEAD/DEAD fighter, the antenna's backlobes are sufficiently strong enough for the HARM to use. The backlobes create the SEAD/DEAD diversionary tactic where one fighter is out of missile range but within radar range and the other fighter attack the backlobes.
> 
> The newer HARM today have their own millimeter wave radar to perform their own beamriding. All HARMs are beamriders no matter their source transmissions.
> 
> Please...We are masters at this...


its not beam riding AGM-88 is not beam riding , it detect enemy radars or enemy jammers and lock on them . and lock the position of that radar in its computing system so if the radar is turned off it can use its ins to reach it . a guy here claims AGM-88 is beam riding which is wrong , i post that picture to show him what is beam riding and why AGM-88 is not beam riding missile . a beam riding missile go away from the source of the beam toward the target , HARM go toward the source of radars its anti radiation.
its how beam riding work 




in case of the HARM the missile go the other way


----------



## Michel Niesten

HorusRa said:


> Tankies on suicide watch.


Attack was reported by Russian media(Kommersant) first. Would they make it up?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553741172006338562

Russian losses now exceed 5,200

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559491609108119552

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Wow Wow:
2


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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559491609108119552



^^

Hope lots of rats were pulverized in this attack.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559595195699699712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559581357180960770

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beast89

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression in the EU is bogus. Here you have a young German journalist who tried to report on what is happening in Donbas to the rest of the world. The German authorities first froze her bank account(s) and then her father's and now her mother's bank accounts. Why kind of a system goes after the family of a journalist who all she has done is not to toe the line of West's narrative in Ukraine and Ukraine's criminal acts in the Donbas region?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559216362202988547


Talk about zionist cruelty in Germany see how far you get

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

The U.S. intelligence community had penetrated multiple points of Russia’s political leadership, spying apparatus and military, from senior levels to the front lines, according to U.S. officials.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/interactive/2022/ukraine-road-to-war/?itid=hp-top-table-main

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## HorusRa

Ukrainian army reveals what Russians kept near Dzhankoy in Crimea


Shortly before the explosions in the Dzhankoy district of Crimea, Russian forces built up a significant accumulation of air defense systems in the area, the Strategic Committee of the Ukrainian Armed Forces said in a post on Telegram on Aug. 16.




news.yahoo.com





If true, massive L for the orcs. Stunning


----------



## The SC




----------



## aziqbal

Russia is not like Western nations 

they can absorb huge amounts of punishment and still come forward

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

aziqbal said:


> Russia is not like Western nations
> 
> they can absorb huge amounts of punishment and still come forward


Just need to look at ww2. 86,000+ tanks lost and over 8,000,000 troop losses, and they still won.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NotSure

That's never ever a M777 towed Howitzer at the Russian Army Expo 22. Right, "Mr. military man"? Impossibru!


----------



## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559581357180960770


They guy leading the group is excused. He is already carrying a wonded soldier away from the frontline.


----------



## dbc

aziqbal said:


> Russia is not like Western nations
> 
> they can absorb huge amounts of punishment and still come forward



if you are a subject of her majesty you ought to be very careful peddling Putin's propaganda while living in Britain. A British youtuber had his bank account and assets frozen for spreading Russian propaganda.. 










YouTuber sanctioned over Russian 'propaganda'


Graham Phillips was accused of committing a war crime for interviewing a UK national captured by Russian troops.



www.bbc.com

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## MeFishToo

aziqbal said:


> Russia is not like Western nations
> 
> they can absorb huge amounts of punishment and still come forward


Why the constant need to drag “western nations” into the equation. Russia is facing Ukraine whos forcing Russia to absorbe huge amounts of punishment all by themself, with a little help of modern equipment and intel.
Russia is facing millions of pissed off ukrainians willing to face the invaders, if given the means to do the fighting. Theyve proven themself, and the military aid is only going to increase. 
No matter the russian narrative, Europe is going to distance itself from Russia, not relying on russian energy in the future. And the military aid from Europe will increase aswell. This war only ends when Russia retreats.



dbc said:


> if you are a subject of her majesty you ought to be very careful peddling Putin's propaganda while living in Britain. A British youtuber had his bank account and assets frozen for spreading Russian propaganda..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YouTuber sanctioned over Russian 'propaganda'
> 
> 
> Graham Phillips was accused of committing a war crime for interviewing a UK national captured by Russian troops.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


A paid russian propagandist should be handled like a domestic ISIS supporter.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ich

gambit said:


> Good. So you admit that even E/O guidance needs initial radar guidance. One of the most tiring issue on this forum is the violations of the laws of physics and common sense by Chinese and Iranians, as in 'Chinese physics' and 'Iranian physics', and sometimes even 'Russian physics'.



well, what about a network of radars what detect the "airplane" far away and then send the coordinates to a SAM-batterie what is "near" the "airplane" and what then look at these coordinates with EO and detect with EO and then fire a missile to the EO-coordinates and then the missile homing in with own seeker? Ah, sorry, just dreaming...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> That's never ever a M777 towed Howitzer at the Russian Army Expo 22. Right, "Mr. military man"? Impossibru!


Maybe you have Alzheimer or just stupid.

I had already said in that post there were 4 confirmed destroyed. I am arguing the story (Which they claim they destroyed 16 M777 system in an island preparing an assault on Snake Island) and the image they supposed to be M777. Which today, I still do not have any argument challenge me back.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559666567595659266

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


----------



## RoadAmerica

Huffal said:


> Just need to look at ww2. 86,000+ tanks lost and over 8,000,000 troop losses, and they still won.


It’s not the 40’s anymore, no they can’t


----------



## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And that is of course a lie. She is suspected of supporting Russian war crimes.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Info-Krieg – Alina Lipp verbreitet Putins Propaganda in EU
> 
> 
> Die Deutsch-Russin Alina Lipp inszeniert sich als "unabhängige deutsche Journalistin". Das ist sie aber nicht, wie eine Analyse ihrer Berichte zeigt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.heute.at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Google translate:
> 
> 
> With her Telegram account "News from Russia" Alina Lipp now reaches more than 178,000 people. But above all, they read Russian war propaganda here - often unconsciously. This is how the "daughter of a Hamburg woman and a St. Petersburgers" the war in Ukraine, following the Kremlin narrative, as "Russian special operation in Ukraine." The word "liberation" also comes up again and again.
> 
> All current developments on the Ukraine war at a glance >
> 
> On the basis of such statements, the German authorities are now investigating them. *The accused are suspected of rewarding and approving crimes, according to the letter informing the 28-year-old of the investigation by the Lüneburg Public Prosecutor's Office.*
> 
> As an example, two acts are named in it: that on the 24th. February posted the sentence "*The denazification has begun*" and on the 12th. March in a video claimed that the Russian troops "liberate" a region affected by a "*genocide by the Ukrainians.*"
> 
> "Party Justice"
> 
> Lipp shares the writing in a video that has been circulating on social media for a few days. She shows incomprehension for the investigation. On her UK account, she specifies her accusation: "They will condemn me because I told the truth." Because according to German law, "only one-sided information may be passed on in favor of the authorities. Anything that contradicts this will be punished by the partisan judiciary." A lie.
> 
> Read more: ORF icon gives oppressive TV appearance from Moscow
> 
> In the video itself, Lipp introduces herself as an "independent German journalist." The fact that *she does not report neutrally about the war in Ukraine*, but clearly takes a stand for the Russian side with her own or shared telegram contributions, does not seem to see it as a break. Also, the fact that she follows the Kremlin view that the West pursues censorship does not seem to be a contradiction to her portrayal as an "independent" journalist.
> 
> Many indications for Kremlin proximity
> 
> The look at her Telegram channel also shows how close the German-Russin is with Russia: She repeatedly posts photos of encounters there - for example, of the one with the head of the information and press department and spokeswoman for the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Maria Zakharova, in September 2021. A meeting with Thomas Röper, who is considered a faithful spreader of disinformation, is also documented. In the description, Lipp describes him as a "favorite colleague."
> 
> In addition, the 28-year-old wears a T-shirt with a large "Z" on her chest in at least one video, which has become a symbol of Putin supporters in recent months:
> 
> "Russian girl" becomes "German journalist"
> 
> It is striking that the German-Russin describes herself as a "German journalist" in the current clip. Because in the past, she liked to call herself in the hashtags for her Instagram posts. Under a photo of yourself in "Military women's shoes" from the 13th. In November, she posts the hashtags #military and #soldier in Russian, among other things.
> 
> Read more: Completely different - this is how Russians experience the Ukraine war on TV
> 
> According to Correctiv.org, the use of both languages is no coincidence: Lipp has a double role. On the one hand, it brings pro-Russian war propaganda closer to a predominantly German audience. On the other hand, she paints for her Russian- and English-speaking audiences the image of a gloomy Germany in which freedom of expression does not exist."
> 
> Who is Alina Lipp?
> 
> Born and raised in Germany, she came to Crimea in 2016 for a research project at a branch of Moscow's Lomonosov University, where her father also emigrated. For her studies, she returned to Germany again, where she was active with the Greens until 2020. Lipp then left the party because it was too "anti-Russian" for her. She has been running the YouTube channel "Happy in Crimea" since 2019.
> 
> In November 2021, she moved to Donetsk shortly after meeting one of the central figures of Russian propaganda with Maria Sakharova. She also founded the Telegram channel "News from Russia" in November.
> 
> Today, *Lipp is considered one of the most important voices of Russian propaganda in Germany*. It operates channels under various names on Instagram, Telegram and Youtube, among others. Lipp is also chairman of the Kremlin-friendly association Friends of Crimea Germany.
> 
> ———-



In that entire page of Google-translated logorrhea, there's literally not the slightest hint that the journalist approved of war crimes. So who's lying here?



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The key thing is that she is not sanctioned because she reports on Ukrainan losses. She is sanctioned because she is an integral part of the illegal invasion.



Journalism is not a military activity, and the person in question did not take part in military actions. Thus she is being repressed unlawfully because her reporting is not to the regime's liking.

Reactions: Like Like:
7 | Love Love:
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----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559601243219263489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559561631595745280

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SalarHaqq

Hack-Hook said:


> dear gambit my argument is there are some SAM out there that don't need RADAR and i stand by it ,as i said radar is good but you can manage without it and let at the last seconds this do the job
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the discussion here is for detecting airplane you need a traditional radar , that both send and receive radio signals . i say no there are some radars that rely on ambient waves like radio waves from radio tower and such. if they now the position of the original tower , then they can do a lot by receiving the reflection of those waves.
> 
> can you explain to me which part of those statement are wrong



The type repeatedly ridiculed your nationality with a racialist epithet ("Iranian physics"), and you still deferently address them with "dear"?! Something tells me your tone would have been slightly less accommodating, had the user been Russian for instance.

Let this serve as a lesson illustrating the maniacal nature of the enmity harbored by US regime supporters against the Iranian nation and people. No matter how low you bow to them, they'll still treat you like dirt.




dbc said:


> if you are a subject of her majesty you ought to be very careful peddling Putin's propaganda while living in Britain. A British youtuber had his bank account and assets frozen for spreading Russian propaganda..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YouTuber sanctioned over Russian 'propaganda'
> 
> 
> Graham Phillips was accused of committing a war crime for interviewing a UK national captured by Russian troops.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



What's propagandistic about that general statement relative to Russian society and history? Is this to say the British regime, in the most medieval of manners, has criminalized science now?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559666567595659266




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559622328006221824

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553741172006338562
> 
> Russian losses now exceed 5,200




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559628058025508864

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559670458001260546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559548832156979201

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559628058025508864


You are too naive, don’t see the big picture.
In wars if you want to launch offensive you don’t announce it in advance you just do it and surprise the enemy.
Now Putin has redeployed large troops to the southern front. He fears Ukraine southern counterattacks. But in doing so he has weakened the East flank, that is what Ukraine wants.
Worse, Ukraine long range artillery now is decimating Russians at the southern flank.
Unlike the terrain at Donbas, the south of Ukraine is mostly flat, very suitable for artillery strikes.
Now the Russians waiting for great offensive that may never come. Or at least not this month.
It looks like a Ukraine plot.


----------



## Viet

Hit and run
a Ukraine haubitzer


----------



## MH.Yang

In fact, we can clearly see from the voting results of the United Nations that Ukraine is indeed Nazi.







The United Nations proposed a ban on beautifying the Nazis. Only two countries in the world oppose this proposal. One is the USA, the other is Ukraine.

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## MeFishToo

MH.Yang said:


> In fact, we can clearly see from the voting results of the United Nations that Ukraine is indeed Nazi.
> 
> View attachment 871235
> 
> 
> 
> The United Nations proposed a ban on beautifying the Nazis. Only two countries in the world oppose this proposal. One is the USA, the other is Ukraine.


Explain how a countrys vote in this matter makes them nazies? The US has been voting against any new version of this resolution for 15 years. Are they nazies?
This is just an attempt to legitimize Russian disinformation campaigns. Notice the countries that didnt vote.


----------



## Type59

Viet said:


> You are too naive, don’t see the big picture.
> In wars if you want to launch offensive you don’t announce it in advance you just do it and surprise the enemy.
> Now Putin has redeployed large troops to the southern front. He fears Ukraine southern counterattacks. But in doing so he has weakened the East flank, that is what Ukraine wants.
> Worse, Ukraine long range artillery now is decimating Russians at the southern flank.
> Unlike the terrain at Donbas, the south of Ukraine is mostly flat, very suitable for artillery strikes.
> Now the Russians waiting for great offensive that may never come. Or at least not this month.
> It looks like a Ukraine plot.



If only it was that simple. Both sides are taking losses in the Southern Front. According to various sources the Russians have dug in around Kherson and their artillery makes it very difficult for UKR to move forward.


----------



## MH.Yang

MeFishToo said:


> Explain how a countrys vote in this matter makes them nazies? The US has been voting against any new version of this resolution for 15 years. Are they nazies?
> This is just an attempt to legitimize Russian disinformation campaigns. Notice the countries that didnt vote.


Ukraine is Nazi, and the USA wants to use the Nazis.

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## NotSure

MH.Yang said:


> Ukraine is Nazi, and the USA wants to use the Nazis.


Funny to see, how butthurt this MeFishToo everytime is, if someone points to this fact.

He is since May in this forum and already has two times more post than me, acting like a propaganda bot. And all post are the same: Russia bad. Did i forget something? Ah, yes: Whitewashing the westoids and their usefull nazi idiot Ukropistan.

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## TNT

Viet said:


> Ok but passive radars can do the same thing as active radars. They can detect flying objects, determine the bearing, the range, the speed, the size. If comparing to active radar it’s hard to impossible for the enemy to detect because it emits no active radar beams. A good thing.
> But to be fair too. There is no good passive radar yet. All still in infancy. Will take time.



I guess u got spanked enough by ur ex enemy and new masters 😂. Was fun seeing u spanked by them while u keep trying ur best to be a loyal subject 😂

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## gambit

Ich said:


> well, what about a network of radars what detect the "airplane" far away and then send the coordinates to a SAM-batterie what is "near" the "airplane" and what then look at these coordinates with EO and detect with EO and then fire a missile to the EO-coordinates and then the missile homing in with own seeker? Ah, sorry, just dreaming...


It is dreaming because coordinates imply stationary? Maybe, just maybe, you do your own research about the subject.


----------



## Piotr

MH.Yang said:


> Ukraine is Nazi, and the USA wants to use the Nazis.



You are right. US imposed Regime in Kiev is Nazi, so is current regime in Washington.
USA created in the former Ukraine cult of Nazi Stepan Bandera.

Monument of US-founded Nazi Stepan Bandera in the former Ukraine:






US stooge and former "president" of the Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko promoting US-founded Nazi Stepan Bandera (he is advertising "Bandera" honey) :





Another US stooge and also former "president" of the Ukraine Petro Poroshenko promoting US-founded Nazi Bandera (he is driving a car with "Banderomobil" sign):





Stepan Bandera and his thugs while working for Nazi Germany killed tens of thousands of Polish People in Wolhynia region. After Germany was defeated by the Soviet Union Bandera started to work for the so called USA.

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## NotSure

TNT said:


> I guess u got spanked enough by ur ex enemy and new masters 😂. Was fun seeing u spanked by them while u keep trying ur best to be a loyal subject 😂


He is so servile, writting his *ss of to spread UKUSA propaganda. Trying to teach people here about eastern Europe and Ukraine, because he as a Vietnamese living in Germoney is such an expert regarding that matter.

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## NotSure

gambit said:


> It is dreaming because coordinates imply stationary? Maybe, just maybe, you do your own research about the subject.


No coords *don't* imply stationary, you are trying here to build a strawman argument.

You have more or less exact coords + vector + timestamp and and a more or less live update. Even in the Vietnam War Russian S-75 SAM were able to use this and then open suprisingly fire with an another battery. Yes, this battery had to use it's own radar then, but the warning time was so small for your murican aircraft, because they were deep in the destruction zone, so they got downed.

And this SAM networking was used >50 years ago ...

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## gambit

NotSure said:


> No coords *don't* imply stationary, you are trying here to build a strawman argument.
> 
> You have more or less exact coords + vector + timestamp and and a more or less live update. Even in the Vietnam War Russian S-75 SAM were able to use this and then open suprisingly fire with an another battery. Yes, this battery had to use it's own radar then, but the warning time was so small for your murican aircraft, because they were deep in the destruction zone, so they got downed.
> 
> And this SAM networking was used >50 years ago ...


Aaahhh...So you are talking about real time update from remote transmitters km away to the SAM launchers. In other words, you got no real defense against US SEAD/DEAD tactics. Like I said many times before, if US/NATO airpower is in Ukraine, we would own the sky.

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## NotSure

gambit said:


> Aaahhh...So you are talking about real time update from remote transmitters km away to the SAM launchers. In other words, you got no real defense against US SEAD/DEAD tactics. Like I said many times before, if US/NATO airpower is in Ukraine, we would own the sky.


Even the old BUK M1 TELAR would give you a serious *** kicking, because they were developed to overcome your typical SEAD tactics.

But keep bragging your murica stronk narrative. You obviously need it.

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## DF41

Piotr said:


> You are right. US imposed Regime in Kiev is Nazi, so is current regime in Washington.
> USA created in the former Ukraine cult of Nazi Stepan Bandera.
> 
> Monument of US-founded Nazi Stepan Bandera in the former Ukraine:
> View attachment 871264
> 
> 
> US stooge and former "president" of the Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko promoting US-founded Nazi Stepan Bandera (he is advertising "Bandera" honey) :
> View attachment 871266
> 
> 
> Another US stooge and also former "president" of the Ukraine Petro Poroshenko promoting US-founded Nazi Bandera (he is driving a car with "Banderomobil" sign):
> View attachment 871271
> 
> 
> Stepan Bandera and his thugs while working for Nazi Germany killed tens of thousands of Polish People in Wolhynia region. After Germany was defeated by the Soviet Union Bandera started to work for the so called USA.

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## Primus

RoadAmerica said:


> It’s not the 40’s anymore, no they can’t


You have completely missed my point


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559622328006221824


Good, so far they failed to gain air dominance. Now let see those bird fall from the sky or get blown up on their airports like in crimea. 

After russia burned through their tanks, burns their artillery (barrel use), their smart munitions (using sam-300 for ground attack), now let them burn through their aviation.

Due to Ukraines noble sacrifices, atleast no country will have to fear russian invasions for atleast the next decade if not more.



MH.Yang said:


> In fact, we can clearly see from the voting results of the United Nations that Ukraine is indeed Nazi.
> 
> View attachment 871235
> 
> 
> 
> The United Nations proposed a ban on beautifying the Nazis. Only two countries in the world oppose this proposal. One is the USA, the other is Ukraine.


In context: They are against due to russia wesponizing the terminology to excuse murdering innocents and quelling internal resistence. 

Furthermore, you didnt give a shit about UN when vast majority condemned Russias war of agression…..

And now when it “suits you” you quote them….hypocrite…human rights have a on/off button for you?

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## gambit

NotSure said:


> Even the old BUK M1 TELAR would give you a serious *** kicking, because they were developed to overcome your typical SEAD tactics.
> 
> But keep bragging your murica stronk narrative. You obviously need it.


Considering the shiddy performance of the VKS over Ukraine, you should self restrain. We got plenty of your gear in the Nevada desert.


----------



## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> Good, so far they failed to gain air dominance. Now let see those bird fall from the sky or get blown up on their airports like in crimea.


What is your definition of air dominance/air superiority


----------



## NotSure

gambit said:


> Considering the shiddy performance of the VKS over Ukraine, you should self restrain. We got plenty of your gear in the Nevada desert.


Get your basic facts straight first. VKS wasn't even really used till today.

And Russia has plenty of experience with your tactics after all your wars etc. Here is one example. Too bad the libyan operators were too noobish to start the missiles sooner and get a SR-71 kill:

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## Hack-Hook

SalarHaqq said:


> The type repeatedly ridiculed your nationality with a racialist epithet ("Iranian physics"), and you still deferently address them with "dear"?! Something tells me your tone would have been slightly less accommodating, had the user been Russian for instance.


you can ask anybody on forum how i speak with them even if I'm just angry at something and trolling, by the way that anybody don't include the super troll and false-flagger Falcon .
my harshest argument in the forum was with Mohsen , ask him how i addressed him.


SalarHaqq said:


> Let this serve as a lesson illustrating the maniacal nature of the enmity harbored by US regime supporters against the Iranian nation and people. No matter how low you bow to them, they'll still treat you like dirt.


bowing to somebody means you let go of your belief and agree to whatever he say . has nothing to do with your tone , sometimes being gentle is a lot more effective than taking a sword in your hand and attack anybody



Viet said:


> Worse, Ukraine long range artillery now is decimating Russians at the southern flank.
> Unlike the terrain at Donbas, the south of Ukraine is mostly flat, very suitable for artillery strikes.
> Now the Russians waiting for great offensive that may never come. Or at least not this month.
> It looks like a Ukraine plot.


if it is flat , then its perfect ground for hunting those artillery . if Russia don't do that there must be something fundamentally wrong here


----------



## Corax

dbc said:


> if you are a subject of her majesty you ought to be very careful peddling Putin's propaganda while living in Britain. A British youtuber had his bank account and assets frozen for spreading Russian propaganda..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YouTuber sanctioned over Russian 'propaganda'
> 
> 
> Graham Phillips was accused of committing a war crime for interviewing a UK national captured by Russian troops.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



WOW! So much for "freedom of speech" then!

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## dbc

Corax said:


> WOW! So much for "freedom of speech" then!



yes shocking, and it's not just the UK









Telegram user arrested over pro-Russian propaganda in Germany


'National Bolshevist' account holder faces accusations of recruiting people to fight in Ukraine




www.thenationalnews.com

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## Corax

dbc said:


> yes shocking, and it's not just the UK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Telegram user arrested over pro-Russian propaganda in Germany
> 
> 
> 'National Bolshevist' account holder faces accusations of recruiting people to fight in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thenationalnews.com



Yeah, so shocking, anyone who doesn't tow the US and NATO poodle sate lines is censored and banned...kinda like Nazi Germany or modern day Russia!

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## Ich

gambit said:


> It is dreaming because coordinates imply stationary? Maybe, just maybe, you do your own research about the subject.



Uuuuhh, sorry, i really thought that there is a 4D-System around us and coordinates are based on it so that everyone can coordinate everything everytime everywhere. But yet you mention it, i realise that also gps is then a lie!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559853856154173442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559815319254085633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559820981983936512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559840929422475264

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## The SC

front of kharkhiv: To report an offensive in a new area, that of Lebhyaze. They are testing the front in several places to find an opening






Izyum front: The usual attacks on borodicas and mazanivka are worthy of note





front of siversk: Here, too, lines are customary, especially under pressure in the ivano-darivka area





Bakhmut front: in addition to the usual routes and the attacks on soledar, to be considered the second day of attacks towards Torecsk south to shumy and zalizne





Donetsk front: here recent geolocations have helped me to make adjustments to some lines, in marinka I had positioned Russians ahead of where I am and I shortened lines. Pinski confirmed Ukrainians on the city outskirts and Russians who have expanded





detail of pinsky





marinka detail





front of zaporizha: in addition to the usual attacks in the pavlinka area, a new direction should be reported, which yesterday led to the capture of land by the Russian in the novomykhalivka area





kherson front: only to report attack on bilohorovka in the ukrainian bridgehead beyond inhulec





@Majakovsk73

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559848793281003520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559846669038092289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559836148129734661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559834248756056064

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## Ali_Baba

Crimea bombings could be a shape of things to come in Kherson​








How Kyiv's special forces may have triggered a new phase in the war


Recent attacks on the illegally-annexed peninsula might suggest that Kyiv is entering the latest phase in the war against Russia




www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559816357809635328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559800012565102592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559778941723893760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559564525606690816

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## Viet

NotSure said:


> He is so servile, writting his *ss of to spread UKUSA propaganda. Trying to teach people here about eastern Europe and Ukraine, because he as a Vietnamese living in Germoney is such an expert regarding that matter.


Nonsense
Normally I don’t care off. You can kill each other as you like. the world is overpopulated. Global warming coming.
It’s just Putin invasion threat of Germany.
Maybe moving to France is an option.
The French have Triumphant nuclear submarines.

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## Primus

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559564525606690816


Which missile is that on the right of the TB2? 

@dBSPL


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559816367746023425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559550543504236549

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## The SC

Huffal said:


> Which missile is that on the right of the TB2?
> 
> @dBSPL


----------



## The SC




----------



## Vergennes

The SC said:


> View attachment 871333





Huffal said:


> Which missile is that on the right of the TB2?
> 
> @dBSPL




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559546893608394757

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559648439306227712

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## Primus

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559546893608394757
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559648439306227712


Lol


----------



## dBSPL

Huffal said:


> Which missile is that on the right of the TB2?
> 
> @dBSPL


Mockup.
Its geometry and dimensions are different from MAM-L. Also, the geometry of the vehicle does not match. They probably tried to do something by looking at the wreckage, but it was too rushed.

It is quite ironic that a force claiming to have shot down 60 TB-2 still cannot even make a proper mockup of this system.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559889347062939649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559879921073360899
While Russia claims to have destroyed more Himars than Ukraine received while showing no evidence whatsoever (And no,a Himars can't hide in the second floor of an appartment and no a Himars isn't a bush) Himars keep pouding the Russians hard. ^^

@F-22Raptor

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## MeFishToo

NotSure said:


> Funny to see, how butthurt this MeFishToo everytime is, if someone points to this fact.
> 
> He is since May in this forum and already has two times more post than me, acting like a propaganda bot. And all post are the same: Russia bad. Did i forget something? Ah, yes: Whitewashing the westoids and their usefull nazi idiot Ukropistan.


Funny too see you guys beating a strawman again and again.



MH.Yang said:


> Ukraine is Nazi, and the USA wants to use the Nazis.


You couldnt or wouldnt explain it?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559903119441633281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559870921724383232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559831798267494400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559822118321283072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559922548036567040

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## Viet

Putin says Russia military hardware is decades ahead of the West that he is willing to share it with allies in Latin America, Asia and Africa. Especially the T90M tanks. He says proven in combat.
Who says he is dumb.







​


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559931029464432640

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## NotSure

Azov survivors from the Elenovka Camp massacre:


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559921283600728065

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559919228249047042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559916131959308289

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## HorusRa

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559931029464432640



Interesting footage. I like how the drone goes up to avoid the flying turret, given that it's probably the most effective AA system in Russia's arsenal.

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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> View attachment 871278
> View attachment 871279


Same crap you’ve been posting for months 🙄


----------



## The SC



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## Iron Shrappenel

dBSPL said:


> It is quite ironic that a force claiming to have shot down 60 TB-2 still cannot even make a proper mockup of this system.


By that logic if one eats chicken then they should be able to lay an egg. Depends upon what they are perpetrating if it's the capture of an actual TB2 then it's silly. If it's to show the general masses what they shot down. Then I think it would do the job.

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559931029464432640



Looks like one of the tank crew is cooking off on the left handside (from the video view) - good shot by the drone operator.


----------



## The SC




----------



## SalarHaqq

Hack-Hook said:


> you can ask anybody on forum how i speak with them even if I'm just angry at something and trolling, by the way that anybody don't include the super troll and false-flagger Falcon .
> my harshest argument in the forum was with Mohsen , ask him how i addressed him.



I believe I'm observant enough to be able to formulate a well-founded assessment. And what I sense is a difference of tone vis à vis the US person who was using provocative language against Iranian people, or vis à vis members of the zionist regime's armed forces with whom you engage in friendly private talk on the one hand, versus others on the other hand. Doesn't mean you'll outright offend or attack those others, just that there's kind of a perceptible nuance transpiring, which sharp eyes will tend to pick up.



Hack-Hook said:


> bowing to somebody means you let go of your belief and agree to whatever he say . has nothing to do with your tone ,



Tone is just another criterion, especially when it varies depending on who the interlocutor is.

It's safe to say your geopolitical leanings as well as the countries you're looking up to in awe, are reflected not just in the content, but more subtly also in the wording of your comments at times. It's not uncommon for one's writing style to unintendedly give away one's preferences.



> sometimes being gentle is a lot more effective than taking a sword in your hand and attack anybody



While there's a wisdom behind that statement, which I'm not going to dismiss altogether, it doesn't apply to the case at hand. Do you truly believe that by addressing the user in a disproportionately cordial manner, it will cause them to rethink their stance? Will I need to tag you when they reiterate their anti-Iranian invectives?

_Zehi khiāle bātel_. It seems there are things you still need to learn about NATO / zionist imperialism and its supporters, including how they're best confronted.

This being obviously off topic, I shall leave it at that.

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## The SC




----------



## ZeGerman

The SC said:


>


Yes some ditch in a field in donbass…always very important defence. Very important fortification.

And they take another 500 meter and repeat the same

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## dBSPL

Iron Shrappenel said:


> By that logic if one eats chicken then they should be able to lay an egg. Depends upon what they are perpetrating if it's the capture of an actual TB2 then it's silly. If it's to show the general masses what they shot down. Then I think it would do the job.


I did not understand your logic. They say that have many intact tactical UAVs they have captured, and they even say that exhibited one of them; however, when we point out that its geometry is problematic, we start talking about why people don't spawn eggs. Repackaged or an exact copy, doesnt matter, If you have a system that dozens of debris, at least it must be modeled with the correct geometry. As I said It's basically very simple engineering work. However, the group they gave this job to have done a very sloppy work.


----------



## beast89

Z marks the spot


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

dBSPL said:


> I did not understand your logic. They say that have many intact tactical UAVs they have captured, and they even say that exhibited one of them; however, when we point out that its geometry is problematic, we start talking about why people don't spawn eggs. Repackaged or an exact copy, doesnt matter, If you have a system that dozens of debris, at least it must be modeled with the correct geometry. As I said It's basically very simple engineering work. However, the group they gave this job to have done a very sloppy work.


1. I don't think the Russians captured any intact TB-2s in the first place. If they did they would have showcased them instead of this replica.
2. Destruction is not similar to construction, reconstruction or remodeling for that matter. Even if they shoot down a hundred TB-2s it won't mean they can recreate or remodel it. You can watch so many western and russian ww2 movies with horrendously bad designed mock ups of German tanks. Considering the first purpose of those movies is commercial success and attracting people.. the quality of mockups is not that impressive.
3. I don't think Russian MoD has the time to worry about such trivial matters. They have bigger things at hand. 
As I've said above if they showcase it as a captured equipment then it's silly. If it's a model then honestly these smaller things don't matter much except to the enthusiast. It's for mass consumption and the masses won't see the difference anyways.

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## gambit

Huffal said:


> What is your definition of air dominance/air superiority


Here is ours...

*Air Dominance* - The ability of an air force to compel other air forces to rearray themselves, usually into subordinate postures.

*Air Superiority* - The ability of an air force to gain control of contested airspaces, regain if necessary, and if there are losses, those losses would not pose a statistical deterrence to that ability.

*Air Supremacy* - He flies, he dies.

In related news...

The US started sending HARMs to the Ukrainians.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559926868568154112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560034467422638081

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## _Nabil_

Klaus Ernst: Wir müssen wieder über Nord Stream 2 reden!

Der Linke-Politiker und Vorsitzende des Energieausschusses im Deutschen Bundestag fordert angesichts der Gaspreise Verhandlungen mit Russland.


Klaus Ernst: We need to talk about Nord Stream 2 again!

The left-wing politician and chairman of the Energy Committee in the German Bundestag calls for negotiations with Russia in view of the gas prices.

Berliner-zeitung.de




SalarHaqq said:


> I believe I'm observant enough to be able to formulate a founded assessment..


Well seen ✌️, now just add to ignore list, he's a lost case 🤕

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559979818535587840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559991968813441026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559937830134185986

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559888162343747584

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559931029464432640



Why do all of the Russian tanks shown in Ukrainian drone attacks have their hatches open? It seems the whole thing is staged for propaganda purposes. Every Russian tank hit by a Ukrainian drone has its hatch open? Tell that to unsuspecting masses, but we can see through those lies. Staged.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559887253614301184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559961556867334144

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## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Why do all of the Russian tanks shown in Ukrainian drone attacks have their hatches open?



record heat wave in Europe and Russian tank air conditioning is $hit.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

dbc said:


> record heat wave in Europe and Russian tank air conditioning is $hit.



Air conditioning issues in Russian tanks have never been a widely reported issue. So your claim here is just a bogus. Armed UVs always attacking their enemy's tanks can't always have the tanks parked and their hatches open. One or two may be, but countless hits on tanks whose hatches were open? That is unbelievable. It is very likely that Ukrainians were staging some of these videos for propaganda purposes.

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## Viet

_Nabil_ said:


> Klaus Ernst: Wir müssen wieder über Nord Stream 2 reden!
> 
> Der Linke-Politiker und Vorsitzende des Energieausschusses im Deutschen Bundestag fordert angesichts der Gaspreise Verhandlungen mit Russland.
> 
> 
> Klaus Ernst: We need to talk about Nord Stream 2 again!
> 
> The left-wing politician and chairman of the Energy Committee in the German Bundestag calls for negotiations with Russia in view of the gas prices.
> 
> Berliner-zeitung.de
> 
> 
> 
> Well seen ✌️, now just add to ignore list, he's a lost case 🤕


Even if nord stream 2 is reopened that won’t be any gas in the pipeline. Right now to north stream 1 Gasprom has reduced the gas flow to just 20 percent of capacity. Minus 80 percent.
Putin would only increase gas supply if Germany stops military and financial support to Ukraine.
That’s unlikely to happen.
Surrendering to Putin blackmail would mean political suicide for Germany reputation and the end of the government.
Gas prices have now hit the roof.
This winter will be tough.


----------



## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Air conditioning issues in Russian tanks have never been a widely reported issue. So your claim here is just a bogus. Armed UVs always attacking their enemy's tanks can't always have the tanks parked and their hatches open. One or two may be, but countless hits on tanks whose hatches were open? That is unbelievable. It is very likely that Ukrainians were staging some of these videos for propaganda purposes.



dude the first tank in Russian service to even have an AC is the T90M. Prior to that only export models had AC installed upon customer request.


"Russia's newest tank, the T-90M, will be the first Soviet and Russian tank with an air conditioner. It [the air conditioner] has been included in the standard configuration of combat vehicles to be supplied this year," the plant said on social networks.



https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/24263/

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## Viet

The Russians have nowhere to hide.
This Hirmas thing is really good. Range 84km, CEP 3m
The 5 floor building is totally destroyed. 100 soldiers dead.
Russia army now shifting troops, aviation and assets further away from Ukraine artillery.

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## Soldier35

Another hybrid military equipment of the Ukrainian army appeared on video. The developers took as a basis the MT-12 100-mm anti-tank gun created in the 1960s. And they put it on the MT-LB multi-purpose light armored transporter, developed in 1964.






One of the Ukrainian M777 howitzers made in the United States, exhibited at the Army-2022 International Military-Technical Forum.






Russian T-72B withstood a Javelin ATGM strike in Ukraine. The episode of the battle was published by military commander Andrey Filatov. Two Russian tanks tried to enter the village of Kamenka in July. One of the tanks was hit by Javelin anti-tank systems. Despite this, the tank turned around and continued to move. After a while, the tank stopped and the mechanic corrected something on the tank.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Air conditioning issues in Russian tanks have never been a widely reported issue. So your claim here is just a bogus. Armed UVs always attacking their enemy's tanks can't always have the tanks parked and their hatches open. One or two may be, but countless hits on tanks whose hatches were open? That is unbelievable. It is very likely that Ukrainians were staging some of these videos for propaganda purposes.



At these temperatures outside, it quickly becomes much hotter inside the tank.
Hot air will strive upwards. Why would a closed hatch protect against a missile which is likely not to go through the hatch?


----------



## Viet

dbc said:


> dude the first tank in Russian service to even have an AC is the T90M. Prior to that only export models had AC installed upon customer request.
> 
> 
> "Russia's newest tank, the T-90M, will be the first Soviet and Russian tank with an air conditioner. It [the air conditioner] has been included in the standard configuration of combat vehicles to be supplied this year," the plant said on social networks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> interfax.com


The Russians install aircon if customers want it, otherwise it’s not the case. Vietnam is a tropical country it’s hot and humid thus our T90S/SK have aircon. Vietnam additional 90MS tank version would have air built-in too.


----------



## Oldman1

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Why do all of the Russian tanks shown in Ukrainian drone attacks have their hatches open? It seems the whole thing is staged for propaganda purposes. Every Russian tank hit by a Ukrainian drone has its hatch open? Tell that to unsuspecting masses, but we can see through those lies. Staged.


Easy, Russians abandoned their tanks and not worried about closing the hatches after they leave them.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Air conditioning issues in Russian tanks have never been a widely reported issue. So your claim here is just a bogus. Armed UVs always attacking their enemy's tanks can't always have the tanks parked and their hatches open. One or two may be, but countless hits on tanks whose hatches were open? That is unbelievable. It is very likely that Ukrainians were staging some of these videos for propaganda purposes.





i don't knew about air conditioning , but didn't Pakistan or it was India don't recall which one had problem with operating T-90 in warmer climate of south Asia



A.P. Richelieu said:


> At these temperatures outside, it quickly becomes much hotter inside the tank.
> Hot air will strive upwards. Why would a closed hatch protect against a missile which is likely not to go through the hatch?
> 
> View attachment 871497


that's temperate weather here ,


----------



## Primus

gambit said:


> Here is ours...
> 
> *Air Dominance* - The ability of an air force to compel other air forces to rearray themselves, usually into subordinate postures.
> 
> *Air Superiority* - The ability of an air force to gain control of contested airspaces, regain if necessary, and if there are losses, those losses would not pose a statistical deterrence to that ability.
> 
> *Air Supremacy* - He flies, he dies.
> 
> In related news...
> 
> The US started sending HARMs to the Ukrainians.


And are you telling me Russia has not gained air superiority?

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## Hack-Hook

Huffal said:


> And are you telling me Russia has not gained air superiority?


more like air dominance


----------



## Primus

Hack-Hook said:


> more like air dominance


Russia has control over the air space of Ukraine pretty much. They arent being contested in the skies, and the losses they do take doesnt really affect their ability to still carry out their intended mission.



Hack-Hook said:


> i don't knew about air conditioning , but didn't Pakistan or it was India don't recall which one had problem with operating T-90 in warmer climate of south Asia
> 
> 
> that's temperate weather here ,


Pakistan does not operate T90

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## Hack-Hook

Huffal said:


> Russia has control over the air space of Ukraine pretty much. They arent being contested in the skies, and the losses they do take doesnt really affect their ability to still carry out their intended mission.


do they ? when was the last time they operate freely there . and honestly whats their intended mission there ?


Huffal said:


> Pakistan does not operate T90


well then it was India


----------



## Primus

Hack-Hook said:


> do they ? when was the last time they operate freely there . and honestly whats their intended mission there ?
> 
> well then it was India


No one operates freely in a war zone. There will always be casualties. As i said, the casualties they suffered has not had a significant impact on their operational capabilities. They still conduct CAS en masse. They are still flying 200 sorties a day. Its been like that since the start of the war. Now apparently Russia has sent more jets and helis into this war they dont call a war.

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## ZeGerman

Huffal said:


> Russia has control over the air space of Ukraine pretty much. They arent being contested in the skies, and the losses they do take doesnt really affect their ability to still carry out their intended mission.
> 
> 
> Pakistan does not operate T90


Yeah all those sorties over lviv and kiev to take out military infrastructure right? 

Oh wait they keep to donbass, lobbing rockets from distance.
While the ukranian airforce also continues to operate

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560107464598687747

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## gambit

Huffal said:


> And are you telling me Russia has not gained air superiority?


In certain regions -- yes. But overall -- no. The Urkainians can still fly and can attack Russian ground forces.


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## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> Yeah all those sorties over lviv and kiev to take out military infrastructure right?
> 
> Oh wait they keep to donbass, lobbing rockets from distance.
> While the ukranian airforce also continues to operate


Their operations in the north was not a total failure. Within the opening hours of the war, the Russian air force managed to destroy and force the Ukrainian air force into a position where they could hardly fight back (which is what their doctrine tells them to do), which then allowed them to launch air strike after air strike on various UKR positions. They did a number on the UKR military in the north. The failure comes from the army, not the air force. 

When they redeployed and focused on the east and south, they pretty much controlled the skies, and still do today. 200 sorties a day against UKR 5 sorties a day. That seems like superiority to me, considering the amount of land they took. If NATO truly wants to help UKR, them give them F16 and F15. Not more su25.

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## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Their operations in the north was not a total failure. Within the opening hours of the war, the Russian air force managed to destroy and force the Ukrainian air force into a position where they could hardly fight back (which is what their doctrine tells them to do), which then allowed them to launch air strike after air strike on various UKR positions. They did a number on the UKR military in the north. The failure comes from the army, not the air force.
> 
> When they redeployed and focused on the east and south, they pretty much controlled the skies, and still do today. 200 sorties a day against UKR 5 sorties a day. That seems like superiority to me, considering the amount of land they took. If NATO truly wants to help UKR, them give them F16 and F15. Not more su25.


Air Force had failed. 

Set aside whether or not they have been able to gain Air Superiority or even Air Dominance. The sole reason for Air Force to exist is to give the force the range they need to overcome any artillery and ground force, none of that have been done by the Russian Air Force. 

In a war, you will need to contest your sky to gain air superiority so you can extend your ground range to beyond artillery range. Whether or not Russia up the tempo with the Air Force (200 sortie a day is probably a myth) or whether or not Russian limited Ukrainian Air Force capability. The ground range had not extended beyond artillery range, which mean whatever outside Russian artillery range they can't touch (except for a limited case using Ballistic/Cruise missile). If you look at what Russia captured from Ukraine, you can see at any point of their front line, they can draw a line 50km away from any of their starting position. 

That in itself is a failure of the Air Force.

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## NotSure

Huffal said:


> . If NATO truly wants to help UKR, them give them F16 and F15. Not more su25.


And this will change exactly what? The F-15 and F-16 would be shot down by the russian SAMs probably on the first flight, even with american pilots and their good training. But with ukr. pilots and their very bad training? They could not even really use this jets effectively. And no, the AGM-88 "*H*igh-Speed-*A*nti-*R*adiation-*M*issile" would not change much. It's not even fast with <M2 top speed. The Ch-31 is fast, that thing is slower than the Saman-M standard target drone for russian airdef, and it has a bigger RCS.

There is no western wonderwaffl, which can turn the tide. No F-15/16/18/22/35, no ATACMs or what ever.

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> Air Force had failed.
> 
> Set aside whether or not they have been able to gain Air Superiority or even Air Dominance. The sole reason for Air Force to exist is to give the force the range they need to overcome any artillery and ground force, none of that have been done by the Russian Air Force.
> 
> In a war, you will need to contest your sky to gain air superiority so you can extend your ground range to beyond artillery range. Whether or not Russia up the tempo with the Air Force (200 sortie a day is probably a myth) or whether or not Russian limited Ukrainian Air Force capability. The ground range had not extended beyond artillery range, which mean whatever outside Russian artillery range they can't touch (except for a limited case using Ballistic/Cruise missile). If you look at what Russia captured from Ukraine, you can see at any point of their front line, they can draw a line 50km away from any of their starting position.
> 
> That in itself is a failure of the Air Force.


Isnt their performance to do with their doctrine. Unlike NATOs doctrine, isnt theirs mostly to do with denying the enemy air force the ability to use their air force against their ground troops. 


It's better explained by this person









NotSure said:


> And this will change exactly what? The F-15 and F-16 would be shot down by the russian SAMs probably on the first flight, even with american pilots and their good training. But with ukr. pilots and their very bad training? They could not even really use this jets effectively. And no, the AGM-88 "*H*igh-Speed-*A*nti-*R*adiation-*M*issile" would not change much. It's not even fast with <M2 top speed. The Ch-31 is fast, that thing is slower than the Saman-M standard target drone for russian airdef, and it has a bigger RCS.
> 
> There is no western wonderwaffl, which can turn the tide. No F-15/16/18/22/35, no ATACMs or what ever.


Thats what Indians thought when Pakistan bought F16s in the 80s to combat the Soviets, but after 9 aircraft (some even say 11+) being shot down without a single f16 lost to enemy fire, and Indias own Mig21 and su30mki being shot down by those f16s on 27th of feb, they know better now.

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## NotSure

Huffal said:


> Thats what Indians thought when Pakistan bought F16s in the 80s to combat the Soviets, but after 9 aircraft (some even say 11+) being shot down without a single f16 lost to enemy fire, and Indias own Mig21 and su30mki being shot down by those f16s on 27th of feb, they know better now.


You are comparing apples and oranges. The F-15 and F-16 would have to operate above a ground, which is saturated with top tier Russian SAMs + at least 2 more layers like Buk M2/3 and Pantsir/Tor. This alone would be a suicide mission, without a single russian fighter jet.

But feel free to believe in western wonderwaffls, which can turn the tide in a lost war ...

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## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Isnt their performance to do with their doctrine. Unlike NATOs doctrine, isnt theirs mostly to do with denying the enemy air force the ability to use their air force against their ground troops.
> 
> 
> It's better explained by this person


Nobody knows why Russia failed to seize advantage of their vast Air Force. If you tell me back in February that Ukrainian are still flying and still shooting down Russian Aircraft 6 months into the war, I will laugh at you and say "Get the F outta here"

By all accounts, Russian Air Force should be able to complete control the sky over Ukraine, but they didn't. And in fact, it didn't use their airforce nearly enough to a level it can dominate their opponent. Some say it is old Soviet Doctrine, some say Russian Air Force is in a depilated state a lot of them cannot fly, and some say Russia by not declaring it a war, they can't push forward all their advantage.

On the other hand, you cannot blame doctrine, Doctrine is what you trained with, but that does not dictate how people fight. In Russia case, Russia trained with Air Force only be using as secondary role (like provide CAS and so on) but that does not mean you cannot and should not alter your war plan if stuff isn't working or if things go your way.

What the guy said in the video was right up to a point, literally it up to when he made that video, which is back in Mid-March, the war is a low tempo fight, not too many big fight happened then, but when Russia start getting into the grinder (Kharkiv, Siverodonetsk, Pisky and Mykolaiv) they should have change their method of operation, and try to use the Air Force to smother the Ukrainian. Anyone have a brain would probably know the vast advantage the Russian Air Force enjoy over Ukrainian, so it would have to be stupid to not exploit that gap. But then they didn't and as I said, I don't know why.

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## ZeGerman

Huffal said:


> Their operations in the north was not a total failure. Within the opening hours of the war, the Russian air force managed to destroy and force the Ukrainian air force into a position where they could hardly fight back (which is what their doctrine tells them to do), which then allowed them to launch air strike after air strike on various UKR positions. They did a number on the UKR military in the north. The failure comes from the army, not the air force.
> 
> When they redeployed and focused on the east and south, they pretty much controlled the skies, and still do today. 200 sorties a day against UKR 5 sorties a day. That seems like superiority to me, considering the amount of land they took. If NATO truly wants to help UKR, them give them F16 and F15. Not more su25.


I was being sarcastic, talking about current situation where they do not (dare? Doctrine?) venture far from donbass frontlines. And ukraine airforce still operates. 

All those western long range artillery and himars are doing a number on them. Where is the russian airforce??


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560213428521795586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560207340288229377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560186751943147520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560157935300378627

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




----------



## Ali_Baba

Russia loses ANOTHER HQ: '100 killed including 2nd Army commanders and 20 FSB officers' in Ukrainian strike just days after Wagner base was destroyed​








Ukraine blows up another Russian military headquarters in Lysychansk


Serhiy Haidai, the governor of Luhansk province, said a Russian military headquarters in the occupied city of Lysychansk was blow up Wednesday, killing 100 of Putin's troops.




www.dailymail.co.uk













Ukraine LIVE: Putin crisis as ANOTHER Russia HQ wrecked, Chechen base in ruins - FSB dead


VLADIMIR PUTIN has suffered another blow as he loses another Russian HQ, killing "100 soldiers, including 2nd Army commanders and 20 FSB officers" after a Ukrainian rocket strike.




www.express.co.uk


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560287235597127681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560269391962353664

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mulj

This is next level of trolling from the highest officials.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560266844690612226

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
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## The SC



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560253379095535620

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560239851760500737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559931000427319301

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560137169754275841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560220457634234368

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## RoadAmerica

Huffal said:


> And are you telling me Russia has not gained air superiority?


Yes!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559822098561916928


----------



## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> I was being sarcastic, talking about current situation where they do not (dare? Doctrine?) venture far from donbass frontlines. And ukraine airforce still operates.
> 
> All those western long range artillery and himars are doing a number on them. Where is the russian airforce??


This war is an artillery war. Russia aviation just plays a minor role. The Russians trust on their massive artillery barrages. its much world war 1 redux. Terror bombing included. Putin airforce is there for supporting the ground troops. Russian pilots fear Ukraine air defense. Putin is in trouble.
Russia offensives come almost too halt everywhere in the entire front. There is no much change since months.
If they are lucky they can keep the territory, however I think the Ukraine army will take them away.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560253379095535620


The Excalibur is developed by Bofors, Sweden in cooperation with Grumman.


----------



## NotSure

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Excalibur is developed by Bofors, Sweden in cooperation with Grumman.


Another western wonderwaffl? Meanwhile Russia is pounding the ukrops since the beginning with Krasnopol and Co...

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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560318008106557442
It's HIMARS o'clock once again.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

NotSure said:


> Another western wonderwaffl? Meanwhile Russia is pounding the ukrops since the beginning with Krasnopol and Co...


Which has translated to very small gains.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560346405004365825

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560348503968186370
Himars strikes again...


----------



## Stryker1982

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560348503968186370
> Himars strikes again...


US should sell PAC-2/3 AD to Russia LOL, atleast they have a solid record of success against 100-300km class missiles.

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## NotSure

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Which has translated to very small gains.


So you can extrapolate the impact of this wonderwaffl on ukr side ...


----------



## The SC




----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560358564014743554

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560350386556379144


----------



## The SC

Watch at -3: 13


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560263667525988359

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560314003796406272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560114404770840576


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560399006886395904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560397859262005248

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dbc

NotSure said:


> which is saturated with top tier Russian SAMs



you mean these top tier SAMs 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540237527793242113


----------



## RoadAmerica

Huffal said:


> Their operations in the north was not a total failure. Within the opening hours of the war, the Russian air force managed to destroy and force the Ukrainian air force into a position where they could hardly fight back (which is what their doctrine tells them to do), which then allowed them to launch air strike after air strike on various UKR positions. They did a number on the UKR military in the north. The failure comes from the army, not the air force.
> 
> When they redeployed and focused on the east and south, they pretty much controlled the skies, and still do today. 200 sorties a day against UKR 5 sorties a day. That seems like superiority to me, considering the amount of land they took. If NATO truly wants to help UKR, them give them F16 and F15. Not more su25.


🤦🏿‍♂️


----------



## gambit

RoadAmerica said:


> Yes!


In order to salvage face for the Russian military, people have to redefine words, phrases, and ideas. For the VKS supporters, air superiority is whatever they interpret at the moment, which also mean they can change it on the next.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560352097740152835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560352590742913024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560353096928305152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560353620809449473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560354119344439298

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## NotSure

dbc said:


> you mean these top tier SAMs
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540237527793242113


No, these super duper top tier SAMs:






"Wer im Glashaus sitzt, sollte nicht mit Steinen werfen."


----------



## dbc

NotSure said:


> No, these super duper top tier SAMs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Wer im Glashaus sitzt, sollte nicht mit Steinen werfen."



I didn't brag about Patriot? no I did not, so your counter is kinda irrelevant.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560451228160573442


----------



## Gomig-21

mulj said:


> This is next level of trolling from the highest officials.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560266844690612226



Hahahahaha, this man is my idol! 6'-5" Mr. Charisma! lol. Love this man!

The complete opposite to this pile of glum & gloom! Oooof!


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

NotSure said:


> So you can extrapolate the impact of this wonderwaffl on ukr side ...


You call it wonderweapon *with a childish twist*, while the West call it standard ammunition which avoids waste. Technology appears to be magic to the uneducated.


----------



## Viet

Russia facing an unprecedented brain drain.
4 million have left Russia in the first quarter 2022. 46 percent increase to 2021. more than 11 million packed and left the country since Putin came to power.
The last Jew wants to flee too.
By this pace Russia will become emptied in 10 years. What remains are nationalists, racists and warmongers. Such as Lavrov who likens Zelinskki with Hitler.









Russia mulls dissolving Israeli emigration agency | DW | 18.08.2022


Sources suggest Moscow fears a brain drain if too many Jewish citizens leave Russia for Israel. The Justice Ministry seeks the closure of the Russian branch of the Jewish Agency for Israel, and a court will now decide.




m.dw.com


----------



## Viet

Odessa is safe against Russia landing.

russia Black Sea fleet now plays no major role more in this war following the loss of the cruiser “Moscow”, snake island, attack aircraft on the Crimea. Ukraine sea mines, antiship missile battery make any invasion attempt impossible from the sea anyway.











Britische Geheimdienste: Russische Flotte kann das Schwarze Meer nicht mehr kontrollieren


Die russischen Seestreitkräfte sind laut London nur noch eingeschränkt in der Lage, die Invasion der Ukraine zu unterstützen. Das liege auch am Verlust des Flaggschiffs »Moskwa«. Odessa drohe von See keine Gefahr mehr.




www.spiegel.de


----------



## Soldier35

An episode of the work of the Ukrainian drone Bayraktar Mini made in Turkey. The drone is carrying out reconnaissance and is trying to aim Ukrainian artillery at one of the Russian armored vehicles, the quality of the video does not allow us to discern its type. The armored vehicle was not hit by Ukrainian artillery strikes







Published footage of the strike of the Russian self-propelled guns 2S9 "Nona-S" on the Ukrainian gun. The target coordinates were obtained from the Orlan-10 UAV, the type of the destroyed weapon is difficult to discern due to the low quality of the video.


----------



## Primus

gambit said:


> In order to salvage face for the Russian military, people have to redefine words, phrases, and ideas. For the VKS supporters, air superiority is whatever they interpret at the moment, which also mean they can change it on the next.


Make no mistake i dont support Russia, nor do i support Ukraine. Im neutral in this war. But im also a realist.

(please UK dont freeze my bank account, lemme buy Destroy all Humans 2 Reprobed and Sonic Frontiers first)



dbc said:


> you mean these top tier SAMs
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540237527793242113


Oh damn. That reminds me of that Israeli Irom dome missile that slammed right into an apartment complex


----------



## The SC




----------



## Beny Karachun

Foinikas said:


> Very interesting video!


ERA or no ERA Russian tanks still get destroyed easily


----------



## Foinikas

Beny Karachun said:


> ERA or no ERA Russian tanks still get destroyed easily


And where are the Ukrainian ones?


----------



## Primus

Foinikas said:


> And where are the Ukrainian ones?


💥

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beny Karachun

Huffal said:


> Oh damn. That reminds me of that Israeli Irom dome missile that slammed right into an apartment complex


Iron Dome made thousands of interceptions above Israeli cities against rockets aimed at them. This happened in 2014, there were more than 1000 interceptions since then, that never occurred again.



Foinikas said:


> And where are the Ukrainian ones?


They're used sparingly and carefully. But also, easily destroyed, if detected. The only tanks that would survive such environment would be Merkava Mk4Ms, Leopard 2A7s, M1A2 SEP V3s with Trophy APS.


----------



## Foinikas

Beny Karachun said:


> They're used sparingly and carefully. But also, easily destroyed, if detected. The only tanks that would survive such environment would be Merkava Mk4Ms, Leopard 2A7s, M1A2 SEP V3s with Trophy APS.


Both Russians and Ukrainians spent years talking about APS systems,but they went to war without fielding any. But the advantage lies with the Ukrainians,because they received thousands of top down attack fire-and-forget AT missiles. Without an APS they don't have a chance to defend against Javelin or NLAW.

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## Michel Niesten

Foinikas said:


> Both Russians and Ukrainians spent years talking about APS systems,but they went to war without fielding any. But the advantage lies with the Ukrainians,because they received thousands of top down attack fire-and-forget AT missiles. Without an APS they don't have a chance to defend against Javelin or NLAW.


The cope cages done Russian tank crews welded on top of their tanks are also pretty useless. All in all, being a Russian tank crew sent to the frontlines isn’t a job any of us should be jealous for.

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## Viet

Real satire

Putin rewards the title "Mother Heroine" and 1 million rubbles to women with 10 children or more. 










Putin revives Stalin-era 'Mother Heroine' award for women with 10 children


Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on Monday that revived the Soviet-era "Mother Heroine" award for women with 10 children or more, in an apparent attempt to alleviate a demographic crisis in the country.




amp.cnn.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560654906897625088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560655287928758272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560655553709604865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560657014262734849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560657016498307072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560657018767437825

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560654906897625088
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560655287928758272
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560655553709604865
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560657014262734849
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560657016498307072
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560657018767437825


This war has now become who has deeper pocket. The US and EU or Russia? 

On another note. You can't fight war with oil and gas...


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560657020000161792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560657021392654336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560659258479235073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560659541640892421

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560659978972643333

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560661440180002817

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560661885917483008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560662820223856641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560664969867186176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560665255344209920

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## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560661885917483008
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560662820223856641
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560664969867186176
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560665255344209920




We are dying of inflation here and our money is wasted on a corrupt regime and it’s clown president. 
What a shameful waste of resources ..

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559977390260232192

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NotSure

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The key thing is that she is not sanctioned because she reports on Ukrainan losses. She is sanctioned because she is an integral part of the illegal invasion.


First: You westoids are not in the position to decide, whether it's an illegal invasion or not. But keep parroting this megalomanic and hypocritic phrases. Because this is one of the typical nazi symptoms, acting like the ruler of the world.

Second: Are her parents "part of the illegal invasion" too? Because they lost their bank accounts too and got other problems, losing their basic civil rights. You know the german word for this measures? I will tell you: Sippenhaft. That's some medieval shit or straight out of primitive dictatorships.

But i guess that's perfectly fine, because it is against the evil Russians. Like the genocide in the donbass is perfectly fine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

Viet said:


> Real satire
> 
> Putin rewards the title "Mother Heroine" and 1 million rubbles to women with 10 children or more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin revives Stalin-era 'Mother Heroine' award for women with 10 children
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on Monday that revived the Soviet-era "Mother Heroine" award for women with 10 children or more, in an apparent attempt to alleviate a demographic crisis in the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.cnn.com


Why is it funny to you?



Michel Niesten said:


> The cope cages done Russian tank crews welded on top of their tanks are also pretty useless. All in all, being a Russian tank crew sent to the frontlines isn’t a job any of us should be jealous for.


It would have been ok if the Ukrainians didn't have Javelin and NLAW and the Russians defended better against Ukrainian UCAVs,but..they lost so many tanks


----------



## Viet

Foinikas said:


> Why is it funny to you?
> 
> 
> It would have been ok if the Ukrainians didn't have Javelin and NLAW and the Russians defended better against Ukrainian UCAVs,but..they lost so many tanks


You don’t see the satire?
10 kids? Seriously?


----------



## Foinikas

Viet said:


> You don’t see the satire?
> 10 kids? Seriously?


Families used to have 7-10 children a century ago. They could do that now well. 

If they get enough money of course.


----------



## Viet

Foinikas said:


> Families used to have 7-10 children a century ago. They could do that now well.
> 
> If they get enough money of course.


So Russia last hope against population collapse is ok we go back 100 years? Maybe Putin should give out more money.


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560714404643094528

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## F-22Raptor

New weapons package


----------



## Foinikas

Viet said:


> So Russia last hope against population collapse is ok we go back 100 years? Maybe Putin should give out more money.


Are you against Russians having a lot of kids?


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russians 'withdraw' in Kharkiv offensive -​RUSSIAN forces' withdrawal in the south of the Donetsk region​








Putin's failures mount: Russians 'withdraw' in Kharkiv offensive


RUSSIAN forces' withdrawal in the south of the Donetsk region, where they failed in their attempts to take a target in the Kharkiv oblast, hints at mounting fiascos as Vladimir Putin's men fight to achieve the dictator's war goals.




www.express.co.uk





Half of Russia's Black Sea combat jets out of operation​








Ukraine war: Half of Russia's Black Sea combat jets out of operation


More than half of the Russian Black Sea fleet's naval aviation combat jets out of use after blasts at the Saky air base in the annexed Crimean peninsula earlier this month, a Western official said on Friday.




www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## 925boy

jhungary said:


> This war has now become who has deeper pocket. The US and EU or Russia?
> 
> On another note. You can't fight war with oil and gas...


Deeper pocket r Deeper willpower?

US and EU are throwing ALOt of their money around and at Ukraine already ,and it hasnt helped them overall in this war, so far really. War these days isnt usually won by the wealthier side...war isnt about money, its about strategy.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aziqbal

Foinikas said:


> Why is it funny to you?
> 
> 
> It would have been ok if the Ukrainians didn't have Javelin and NLAW and the Russians defended better against Ukrainian UCAVs,but..they lost so many tanks



how many countries are fighting Russia? 30 make it 60 hell make it 90 or even the rest of the entire World, Russia will still win always have 

they hit Russia will every sanction in the book and Western nations thought like them Russia is also a weak power 

Russia has a huge stomach to take casualties, they are built to absorb huge amounts of punishment just like their equipment 

there is a repair factory in Russia and they are literally patching up the tanks and now have massed 30 x BTG in Southern command for the new winter offensive 

and 3 months ago US said Russia has lost 70% of its BTG, around 3-5 BTG alone are in the Seversk area now 

and if the Summer belonged to Ukraine the Winter always belongs to the Russians 

the Cold Russian Winter Offensive will devastate the Ukrainians and the rest of those foreign mercenaries in Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
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## S10

Looks like Russia is slowly grinding their way through Ukrainian lines.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

aziqbal said:


> how many countries are fighting Russia? 30 make it 60 hell make it 90 or even the rest of the entire World, Russia will still win always have
> 
> they hit Russia will every sanction in the book and Western nations thought like them Russia is also a weak power
> 
> Russia has a huge stomach to take casualties, they are built to absorb huge amounts of punishment just like their equipment
> 
> there is a repair factory in Russia and they are literally patching up the tanks and now have massed 30 x BTG in Southern command for the new winter offensive
> 
> and 3 months ago US said Russia has lost 70% of its BTG, around 3-5 BTG alone are in the Seversk area now
> 
> and if the Summer belonged to Ukraine the Winter always belongs to the Russians
> 
> the Cold Russian Winter Offensive will devastate the Ukrainians and the rest of those foreign mercenaries in Ukraine


I know man.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Missile rain all over Ukraine tonight


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560767708421029889


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Trophies shown in Russian expo


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560753030659817475

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560680684054020096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560685086135275520


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560677344737501185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560645172865765377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560636173751664640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560620307605381120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560619979157819392


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560614122030374912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560617774770114564

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560619725020975104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560595907673931781

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560775811342499840


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560519976393515008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560518629560557569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560517174569099265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560588980587925506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560591924213399552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560587528368820224

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560756186940641283

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560691225853935622

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560647502512234496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560652962233323520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560470954236690433


----------



## RektAtKasserinePass

Propaganda from both sides here is persistent. 

Sadly, the conflict, doesn't appear to be ending anytime soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakFactor

RektAtKasserinePass said:


> Propaganda from both sides here is persistent.
> 
> Sadly, the conflict, doesn't appear to be ending anytime soon.



Let it keep going ——

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

EU Gas reserves are now at 76% and growing: https://agsi.gie.eu/

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Corruptistan

So what is the status quo nowadays? 

Any evidence of Ukraine launching a counterattack in the South to regain its lost territory?


----------



## sammuel

aziqbal said:


> Russia has a huge stomach to take casualties,




You mean , they are ruled by a dictator , who does not care how many of his people die , in a war he could have easily avoided.

~

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

NotSure said:


> First: You westoids are not in the position to decide, whether it's an illegal invasion or not. But keep parroting this megalomanic and hypocritic phrases. Because this is one of the typical nazi symptoms, acting like the ruler of the world.
> 
> Second: Are her parents "part of the illegal invasion" too? Because they lost their bank accounts too and got other problems, losing their basic civil rights. You know the german word for this measures? I will tell you: Sippenhaft. That's some medieval shit or straight out of primitive dictatorships.
> 
> But i guess that's perfectly fine, because it is against the evil Russians. Like the genocide in the donbass is perfectly fine.


Anyone seven years old or above can see that Russia started a War of Aggression which is illegal. That is why the UNGA with the exception of Russian stooges voted against Russia.

As usual Russians accuse others of their sins. ”Sippenhaft” is a thing that was part of Soviet criminal law and Russians executed plenty of relatives of made up criminals. In Germany it is a thing of the past.




__





Article 58 (RSFSR Penal Code) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Russian calling out ”genocide” when Russians are making most of the killings in a war Russia started in 2014 is laughable.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Foinikas said:


> Are you against Russians having a lot of kids?


Not about that but 10 kids? That’s dreamland Putin could do better but he won’t. Which woman has 10 kids today?
Making life better for men and women is the best means to having more kids. but look, Putin rules Russia over 22y, what has he done to raise Russia living standards?
Russia men life expectancy is 10y lower than German men. Russia minimum wage is 10 times lower than in Germany.
They spend too much money on propaganda, wodka, military, war instead.





__





Russland: Die verheerende (Wirtschafts-)Bilanz des Wladimir Putin - WiWo


WIWO AMP2




amp2.wiwo.de

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560866326180089857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560866767269900290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560865427810656256

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Michel Niesten

These drone strikes at Sevastopol HQ don’t do a lot of fysical damage, but it shows the Russians they’re far from safe at the Crimea anymore (as did all the other attacks last week)


----------



## PakAlp

jhungary said:


> Nobody knows why Russia failed to seize advantage of their vast Air Force. If you tell me back in February that Ukrainian are still flying and still shooting down Russian Aircraft 6 months into the war, I will laugh at you and say "Get the F outta here"
> 
> By all accounts, Russian Air Force should be able to complete control the sky over Ukraine, but they didn't. And in fact, it didn't use their airforce nearly enough to a level it can dominate their opponent. Some say it is old Soviet Doctrine, some say Russian Air Force is in a depilated state a lot of them cannot fly, and some say Russia by not declaring it a war, they can't push forward all their advantage.
> 
> On the other hand, you cannot blame doctrine, Doctrine is what you trained with, but that does not dictate how people fight. In Russia case, Russia trained with Air Force only be using as secondary role (like provide CAS and so on) but that does not mean you cannot and should not alter your war plan if stuff isn't working or if things go your way.
> 
> What the guy said in the video was right up to a point, literally it up to when he made that video, which is back in Mid-March, the war is a low tempo fight, not too many big fight happened then, but when Russia start getting into the grinder (Kharkiv, Siverodonetsk, Pisky and Mykolaiv) they should have change their method of operation, and try to use the Air Force to smother the Ukrainian. Anyone have a brain would probably know the vast advantage the Russian Air Force enjoy over Ukrainian, so it would have to be stupid to not exploit that gap. But then they didn't and as I said, I don't know why.



Its a mystery indeed. Russia claiming to be a military superpower should have full air dominance in Ukraine but failed so far, they do have the planes and technology to do this. The s400 s500 should be protecting them from missiles, planes but even that is not been done. 

One change the Russian made is at the beginning of the war they sent the army very fast to overtake territory but after suffering heavy losses they're withdrew and realised they will have to slowly move forward in order to secure all areas.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Khan2727 said:


> So what is the status quo nowadays?
> 
> Any evidence of Ukraine launching a counterattack in the South to regain its lost territory?


Just speaking from what reading. That’s happening as we speak. Ukraine artillery strikes Russia targets among the entire front, in Crimea, in Russia mainland. The goal is destroying morale, ammo depots, military assets, supply lines, communications centers, etc. making ground for the offensive.
The attacks should be carried out before the begin mud season. The factor weather is important. Germany invasion of USSR was stalled because the Wehrmacht underestimated the harsh conditions of mud season and cold winter.


----------



## NotSure

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Anyone seven years old or above can see that Russia started a War of Aggression which is illegal. That is why the UNGA with the exception of Russian stooges voted against Russia.


You mean UKUSA stooges plus the intimdated countries voted after pressure from the angloids to condem this military operation? Yes, and how many % of the world population are this countries? How many % of the world population are supporting the sanctions? I will tell you: 15%.

And with every month passed your support is decreasing, because you can't hide the truth about this war and your Nazi stooges in Ukraine. Even if the Angloids and their bots like you go apeshit.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> As usual Russians accuse others of their sins. ”Sippenhaft” is a thing that was part of Soviet criminal law and Russians executed plenty of relatives of made up criminals. In Germany it is a thing of the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 58 (RSFSR Penal Code) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


I am talking about *todays germany*, you genius. Todays germany is not the soviet union of the 1930's. She and Her parents lost basic civil rights, in todays germany, not the soviet union of the 1930's. Do i have to repeat it again for you? And other journalist by the way too, like Ken Jebsen as an example.

Instead of condemning it you are trying to distract with a whataboutism. Why are you doing this? Because you don't give f*uck about civil and human rights.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russian calling out ”genocide” when Russians are making most of the killings in a war Russia started in 2014 is laughable.


Yeah, the Russians shelled itself in the Donbass. And the Russian troops are shelling themselves at the nuclear powerplant, they are spreading illegal PFM-1 mines in Donezk, Belgorod etc. and so on. I got it.

Here we can see, how the Russians attacked "themselves" on the 2th June 2014 as an example:

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


> You mean UKUSA stooges plus the intimdated countries voted after pressure from the angloids to condem this military operation? Yes, and how many % of the world population are this countries? How many % of the world population are supporting the sanctions? I will tell you: 15%.


Your telling blatant lies? 









United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/1 - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Assuming you know how to count that is a great deal more then 15%, and in fact those supporting russias “liberation” (china/india abstained) are 5 out of almost 200 countries…..


NotSure said:


> Yeah, the Russians shelled itself in the Donbass. And the Russian troops are shelling themselves at the nuclear powerplant, they are spreading illegal PFM-1 mines in Donezk, Belgorod etc. and so on. I got it.



Fact. UN found little mistreatment pre 2014.
Fact. UN found most civilian deaths 2014-2022 were due to russian seperatists. 
Fact. In the 2022 invasion, it is russia that is repeatedly ethnically cleansing territory (most conquered cities and villages have been emptied and 5-10% pro russians remain).

Does this mean Ukraine is without fault? No.
But the whole “saving the donbass from genocide” propaganda is not only bullshit…but also disgusting considering the many crimes of the so called “liberator”

Seriously….just stop spamming nonsense buddy….

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## Michel Niesten

ZeGerman said:


> Your telling blatant lies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/1 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming you know how to count that is a great deal more then 15%, and in fact those supporting russias “liberation” (china/india abstained) are 5 out of almost 200 countries…..
> 
> 
> Fact. UN found little mistreatment pre 2014.
> Fact. UN found most civilian deaths 2014-2022 were due to russian seperatists.
> Fact. In the 2022 invasion, it is russia that is repeatedly ethnically cleansing territory (most conquered cities and villages have been emptied and 5-10% pro russians remain).
> 
> Does this mean Ukraine is without fault? No.
> But the whole “saving the donbass from genocide” propaganda is not only bullshit…but also disgusting considering the many crimes of the so called “liberator”
> 
> Seriously….just stop spamming nonsense buddy….


Dont try to educate stupid. They only believe the Moscow narrative, anything else is just fake/western propaganda according to them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560921331964723200

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

Ukrainian drone strike hits HQ of Russia's Black Sea Fleet in Crimea


Intelligence officials revealed last night how strikes have crippled the invaders' military capabilities, and have displayed Kyiv's ability to wreak havoc on Russian logistics.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560921269977194496
Captured russian equipment in "it will fall in 3 days" Kyiv.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> You mean UKUSA stooges plus the intimdated countries voted after pressure from the angloids to condem this military operation? Yes, and how many % of the world population are this countries? How many % of the world population are supporting the sanctions? I will tell you: 15%.
> 
> And with every month passed your support is decreasing, because you can't hide the truth about this war and your Nazi stooges in Ukraine. Even if the Angloids and their bots like you go apeshit.
> 
> I am talking about *todays germany*, you genius. Todays germany is not the soviet union of the 1930's. She and Her parents lost basic civil rights, in todays germany, not the soviet union of the 1930's. Do i have to repeat it again for you? And other journalist by the way too, like Ken Jebsen as an example.
> 
> Instead of condemning it you are trying to distract with a whataboutism. Why are you doing this? Because you don't give f*uck about civil and human rights.
> 
> Yeah, the Russians shelled itself in the Donbass. And the Russian troops are shelling themselves at the nuclear powerplant, they are spreading illegal PFM-1 mines in Donezk, Belgorod etc. and so on. I got it.
> 
> Here we can see, how the Russians attacked "themselves" on the 2th June 2014 as an example:


1. It’s the UN, if you don’t like their demographic too bad.
2. Russia wouldn’t shell the nuclear plant? Ever heard of the Russian apartment bombings which effectively brought Putin to power?



ZeGerman said:


> Your telling blatant lies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/1 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming you know how to count that is a great deal more then 15%, and in fact those supporting russias “liberation” (china/india abstained) are 5 out of almost 200 countries…..
> 
> 
> Fact. UN found little mistreatment pre 2014.
> Fact. UN found most civilian deaths 2014-2022 were due to russian seperatists.
> Fact. In the 2022 invasion, it is russia that is repeatedly ethnically cleansing territory (most conquered cities and villages have been emptied and 5-10% pro russians remain).
> 
> Does this mean Ukraine is without fault? No.
> But the whole “saving the donbass from genocide” propaganda is not only bullshit…but also disgusting considering the many crimes of the so called “liberator”
> 
> Seriously….just stop spamming nonsense buddy….


Well his name is NotSure 🤣



Ali_Baba said:


> Ukrainian drone strike hits HQ of Russia's Black Sea Fleet in Crimea
> 
> 
> Intelligence officials revealed last night how strikes have crippled the invaders' military capabilities, and have displayed Kyiv's ability to wreak havoc on Russian logistics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Hahaha the Russian narrative is laughable.


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560921331964723200

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

Huffal said:


> Lol


Luv it. To this I am looking forward to the exhibits of the 8 jets destroyed in Crimea and the missile cruiser Moskva's wreckage. Wait, those were accidents so I don't think they count



ZeGerman said:


> Your telling blatant lies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/1 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming you know how to count that is a great deal more then 15%, and in fact those supporting russias “liberation” (china/india abstained) are 5 out of almost 200 countries…..
> 
> 
> Fact. UN found little mistreatment pre 2014.
> Fact. UN found most civilian deaths 2014-2022 were due to russian seperatists.
> Fact. In the 2022 invasion, it is russia that is repeatedly ethnically cleansing territory (most conquered cities and villages have been emptied and 5-10% pro russians remain).
> 
> Does this mean Ukraine is without fault? No.
> But the whole “saving the donbass from genocide” propaganda is not only bullshit…but also disgusting considering the many crimes of the so called “liberator”
> 
> Seriously….just stop spamming nonsense buddy….


Save your energy and why go head to head with a loser moron who is following the Putin line. 300K of their educated class have left the country, and that does not include the rich and wealthy. Their supply chain is shut off. Yes they have oil and gas. But German industry already has reduced its use of gas by 30% (Mercedes says it can go to 50%) without impact on output. So the one weapon that Russia has (other than propaganda) has a half life of about 2 years. 

Thank Putin for the accelerated transition to Renewables.


----------



## jhungary

925boy said:


> Deeper pocket r Deeper willpower?
> 
> US and EU are throwing ALOt of their money around and at Ukraine already ,and it hasnt helped them overall in this war, so far really. War these days isnt usually won by the wealthier side...war isnt about money, its about strategy.


Are you serious?

There are NO major Russian advance anywhere in the map of Ukraine since July 3 when they took Lysychansk, that's more than 6 weeks ago and both advance toward Siversk and Bakhmut are stalled. With Russian troop getting nowhere. And Ukrainian is counter attacking in the South. So either you have a loose definition of 'Hasn't Help them much" or you are too blind to follow the battlefield to know what is going on. 

On the other hand, EVERY war fought on the back of money, you have to have constant equipment and money flow in to make you continue with your war. What do you think will happen if and when Russia can't pay its soldier?? Or don't have enough resource and money to replenish lost equipment? On the other hand, the will power of attacking force come from success in battlefield. The will power of the defending force come from defending their homeland. Do you really think Russia really have more willpower than the Ukrainian seeing how they perform in this war?

Dude, don't make me laugh.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

sammuel said:


> You mean , they are ruled by a dictator , who does not care how many of his people die , in a war he could have easily avoided.
> 
> ~





Foinikas said:


> Families used to have 7-10 children a century ago. They could do that now well.
> 
> If they get enough money of course.


Before the war, Russia had one of the lowest fertility rates of Europe. Thats going to be even less. Not all the Putin edicts or rewards are going to correct that. Chinese have been trying for a decade and it failed.

Russia is similar in this respect to Europe: but rest of Europe has economic prosperity and will attract immigrants. Nobody (even the Syrians or Yemenese) are going to be attracted to Russia.


----------



## jhungary

Khan2727 said:


> So what is the status quo nowadays?
> 
> Any evidence of Ukraine launching a counterattack in the South to regain its lost territory?


They already did.....

The Ukrainian had recaptured 40 settlement and 6 small cities in the south, they are bombing Russian bridge across the Dnieper River and ammunition dump as well, that's all evidence they are launching an attack in the south.


----------



## aviator_fan

Flight of falcon said:


> We are dying of inflation here and our money is wasted on a corrupt regime and it’s clown president.
> What a shameful waste of resources ..


Nobody si dying of inflation. You just don't have enough to go on more vacations or buy more clothes or get the latest model car. And if this sacrifce wasn't made, then your future is like those of Russians ruling you. Prisons full, forced fight into the war , with Chechens in the rear guard shooting anybody that turns back (not too different than WWII)


----------



## The SC

Russian TOS Solntsepyok destroys Ukrainian military positions in Bakhmut, dozens of Ukrainian soldiers die


Spoiler: Graphic


----------



## jhungary

PakAlp said:


> Its a mystery indeed. Russia claiming to be a military superpower should have full air dominance in Ukraine but failed so far, they do have the planes and technology to do this. The s400 s500 should be protecting them from missiles, planes but even that is not been done.
> 
> One change the Russian made is at the beginning of the war they sent the army very fast to overtake territory but after suffering heavy losses they're withdrew and realised they will have to slowly move forward in order to secure all areas.


It depends on who you ask. Some people will tell you Russian Air Force is inherently inept. Some people will tell you this is not a war, so they don't need to reach their full potential. If you ask me, I will say Russian Air Force don't really need to reach full potential to gain air superiority in Ukraine. I mean you don't need the full stock of Russian Air Force to destroy Ukrainian Air Force.


----------



## Viet

Record speed
Green light to LNG terminal at Wilhelmshaven and gas pipeline. all works will be completed in 4 months, before Christmas. Initial capacity 10 billion cubic meters later 28 bcm.
Putin can keep gas to himself, drink it instead of wodka.









Wilhelmshaven: Pipeline-Bau für LNG-Terminal ist genehmigt


Über eine Pipeline soll das künftig in Wilhelmshaven ankommende Flüssig-Erdgas (LNG) nach Etzel gelangen. Das Landesamt für Bergbau, Energie und Geologie hat Bau und Betrieb der Pipeline nun genehmigt.




www.ndr.de


----------



## aviator_fan

NotSure said:


> First: You westoids are not in the position to decide, whether it's an illegal invasion or not. But keep parroting this megalomanic and hypocritic phrases. Because this is one of the typical nazi symptoms, acting like the ruler of the world.
> 
> Second: Are her parents "part of the illegal invasion" too? Because they lost their bank accounts too and got other problems, losing their basic civil rights. You know the german word for this measures? I will tell you: Sippenhaft. That's some medieval shit or straight out of primitive dictatorships.
> 
> But i guess that's perfectly fine, because it is against the evil Russians. Like the genocide in the donbass is perfectly fine.


You are right , there is no moral superiority of defining Russian invasion legal or not legal no more so than using western weapons to Saudi Arabia to inflict equivalent death.

There is no moral high ground.

But this is a good time for the West (and then the world) to break its tie with fossil fuels and Putin just accelerated by 10x when this transition would take place. Its a shame since Russia's future prosperity is completely wiped out. Only a trickle of it was making to average Russian so the life of mega billionaires in Russia is on a ticking clock.



NotSure said:


> Infantilism is your westoids mental state #2 after hypocrisy. And regarding the education: So most of you fanboys here are uneducated in science and tech? Wow, what a surprise ...


educated enough that we don't have to put microwave and dishwasher components in our weapons. Imagine in 3 years when the best microprocessor Russia can field from a dishwasher is 50x slower in performance.


----------



## The SC

Russia strikes Americans in Ukraine, deploys its missiles, activates a lot of air defense systems on its borders with Ukraine and in Crimea.. after a high ranking US General said that Ukraine is allowed to attack the Russian territory as self-defense.. Russia takes control of new strategic sites, and the Chinese army reaches Russia for the Vostok 2022 military maneuvers..


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560911859682787328
Russian military parade in Kyiv

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> Deeper pocket r Deeper willpower?
> 
> US and EU are throwing ALOt of their money around and at Ukraine already ,and it hasnt helped them overall in this war, so far really. War these days isnt usually won by the wealthier side...war isnt about money, its about strategy.


You are right money will not win a war, particularly an asymmetric one.

But in a symeetric situation, money helps. Given that each HIMARS round is blowing up ammunition rounds in the 100s or 1000s, how do you suppose Russian strategy is superior?


----------



## aviator_fan

aziqbal said:


> how many countries are fighting Russia? 30 make it 60 hell make it 90 or even the rest of the entire World, Russia will still win always have
> 
> they hit Russia will every sanction in the book and Western nations thought like them Russia is also a weak power
> 
> Russia has a huge stomach to take casualties, they are built to absorb huge amounts of punishment just like their equipment


WWII when they had a population advantage yes they could take massive casualties to make up for inferior military. But Afghanistan demonstrated that they could not, even when they had the USSR satellite states population. It unraveled the USSR

Today with just Russia (no USSR), the same western adversary as Afghanistan providing weapons and an equally determined opponent (Ukraine) as the Afghans, the stomach has holes in it. ANd the conscripts will only take them so far.

To get every Russian to go fight this war is not going to be sustainable after the winter. 

Western Europeans just have to enjoy fewer luxuries, have a slightly dimmer cities by virtue of street lights not as bright, and put on a sweater in the house to continue. Russians have to continue to find tens of thousands of willing soldiers to fight.


----------



## The SC




----------



## jhungary

Dogfight Over Donbas


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560325776477659143

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


----------



## NotSure

ZeGerman said:


> Your telling blatant lies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/1 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming you know how to count that is a great deal more then 15%, and in fact those supporting russias “liberation” (china/india abstained) are 5 out of almost 200 countries…..


No you can't properly read or have probs with elementary school math. Or even both.

And abstained means what? Correct: No active support. Considering the fact, that UKUSA is blackmailing all countries to support their resolutions against Russia, this means a lot


ZeGerman said:


> Fact. UN found little mistreatment pre 2014.
> Fact. UN found most civilian deaths 2014-2022 were due to russian seperatists.



The UN found nothing, they simply parroted UKUSAs antirussian propaganda. And this is exactly what you are doing here as a typical BRD-NPC.



ZeGerman said:


> Fact. In the 2022 invasion, it is russia that is repeatedly ethnically cleansing territory (most conquered cities and villages have been emptied and 5-10% pro russians remain).


Lol, kid, you're a moronic hobby propagandist. If you try to manipulate people, then pls not with such stupid nonsense.

First: It is war time, most people flee, regardless their position.
Second: Many flee to Russia, and you are using their absence in Ukraine against Russia? To prove ethnic cleansing? You do not even know the meaning of this term.
Third: The SBU is oppressing and murdering people with even a remote pro Russian view, of course many Ukrainians will wait until there is no SBU and/or this towns will be a part of Russia, so the SBU can't reach them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560925593302089731


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561035637465268224

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

NotSure said:


> You mean UKUSA stooges plus the intimdated countries voted after pressure from the angloids to condem this military operation? Yes, and how many % of the world population are this countries? How many % of the world population are supporting the sanctions? I will tell you: 15%.
> 
> And with every month passed your support is decreasing, because you can't hide the truth about this war and your Nazi stooges in Ukraine. Even if the Angloids and their bots like you go apeshit.
> 
> I am talking about *todays germany*, you genius. Todays germany is not the soviet union of the 1930's. She and Her parents lost basic civil rights, in todays germany, not the soviet union of the 1930's. Do i have to repeat it again for you? And other journalist by the way too, like Ken Jebsen as an example.
> 
> Instead of condemning it you are trying to distract with a whataboutism. Why are you doing this? Because you don't give f*uck about civil and human rights.
> 
> Yeah, the Russians shelled itself in the Donbass. And the Russian troops are shelling themselves at the nuclear powerplant, they are spreading illegal PFM-1 mines in Donezk, Belgorod etc. and so on. I got it.
> 
> Here we can see, how the Russians attacked "themselves" on the 2th June 2014 as an example:


141 countries voted against Russia.
5 countries voted for Russia
35 abstained,
Numbers speak for themselves.

She was sanctioned because she is supporting war crimes. If her parents help out, then they will be sanctioned as well, not because they are parents, but because they support war crimes.

That Russians are blowing up their ships and air bases is coming directly from Kreml.

Ukraine has been fighting Russians and Russian stooges in Donbass since 2014. That does not make it genocide.


----------



## NotSure

aviator_fan said:


> Save your energy and why go head to head with a loser moron who is following the Putin line. 300K of their educated class have left the country, and that does not include the rich and wealthy. Their supply chain is shut off. Yes they have oil and gas. But German industry already has reduced its use of gas by 30% (Mercedes says it can go to 50%) without impact on output. So the one weapon that Russia has (other than propaganda) has a half life of about 2 years.
> 
> Thank Putin for the accelerated transition to Renewables.


Nice try. Most of this so called "educated" are libtards with "education" in the creative area or garbage like "political science". In other words, they are more or less useless and produce nothing with value. If you consider the falling living standards in the west, btw. actively promoted by NPCs like you with their green religion, plus the russophobia, then many will come back. The smarter ones. But you can keep the other ones.

And regarding the renewables: Keep dreaming or do your self a favor and learn some physics. Germany will not change to "renewables" in 2 years, not in 5 years and not in 10 years with the industry we have today. Only by destroying 80% or so this would be possible. But then again: This is exactly UKUSAs plan, to destroy the german industry.


----------



## Michel Niesten

“Superior Russian air defences intercepted a Ukraine drone over the HQ of the Black Sea fleet. Unfortunately it crashed on the roof of that same HQ”. 

Is that the Russian way of admitting the suicide drone hit its target?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560985922161856513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561036396869058563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560994443913842690

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561011239978819584


----------



## NotSure

RoadAmerica said:


> 1. It’s the UN, if you don’t like their demographic too bad.
> 2. Russia wouldn’t shell the nuclear plant? Ever heard of the Russian apartment bombings which effectively brought Putin to power?


1. Learn to read.
2. I heard this nonsense surely before you. Even the most obscure conspiracy theory about the 911 is more likely than this propaganda. The question alone from a murican NPC to a half Russian half German is more than rediculous. What's next? You will try to teach your father how to f*ck?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561031845369810945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561023105748844544


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560979867566473217





Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560974454833963008


----------



## NotSure

A.P. Richelieu said:


> 141 countries voted against Russia.
> 5 countries voted for Russia
> 35 abstained,
> Numbers speak for themselves.


Yep, numbers speak for themselves. UKUSA was doing overtime to force all countries to vote against Russia and still 35 abstained. All the pressure, all the blackmailing and threats and still 35 countries said indirectly f*ck you.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

NotSure said:


> Yep, numbers speak for themselves. UKUSA was doing overtime to force all countries to vote against Russia and still 35 abstained. All the pressure, all the blackmailing and threats and still 35 countries said indirectly f*ck you.


That is your interpretation.
That were 35 countries that did not support Russia even though Russia was doing overtime to promote its fake news.
Not even China supported Russia after announcement of an alliance only weeks before.
When it comes to economic sanctions, population is less important than economy, and Russia is sanctioned by countries representing around half the world economoy.


----------



## NotSure

aviator_fan said:


> educated enough that we don't have to put microwave and dishwasher components in our weapons. Imagine in 3 years when the best microprocessor Russia can field from a dishwasher is 50x slower in performance.


The use of buzz words as an argument is always a good sign of lacks in education in the specific sphere.

There are no "microwave and dishwasher components" as such, there are ICs with a specific function, so they can be used for typical tasks. Has Russia problems with microelectronics? Sure that, no country is perfect. But in coop with China and own programms this is a short term problem.

And regarding the speed: Like i said, you have obviously no clue, what you are talking about. Speed is not all, nor the structure size and especially not in the military field.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is your interpretation.
> That were 35 countries that did not support Russia even though Russia was doing overtime to promote its fake news.
> Not even China supported Russia after announcement of an alliance only weeks before.
> When it comes to economic sanctions, population is less important than economy, and Russia is sanctioned by countries representing around half the world economoy.


You still don't get, don't you? It's *not* about promoting a narrative, it is about blackmailing a country with sanctions or even war. This is exactly what UKUSAs economic hitman and ambassadors are doing. To call it Mafia Methods would be an understatement. But it is the angloid modus operandi since...centuries?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560909517495435264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560911633983193088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560906432375132160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560970783375204352


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561027289604825090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561034767717617664

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is your interpretation.
> That were 35 countries that did not support Russia even though Russia was doing overtime to promote its fake news.
> Not even China supported Russia after announcement of an alliance only weeks before.
> When it comes to economic sanctions, population is less important than economy, and Russia is sanctioned by countries representing around half the world economoy.


I don't understand why the need to argue with an idiot.

I mean if he thinks Russian sanction is only supported by 15% of population, that should be all fine and dandy for the Russian, then why bring up sanction if this won't work? 

On the other hand, people like him can talk tough, but no action, ask him if he would move to Russia if the sanction does not do much? Of course, he can talk trash when he is sitting pretty in Germany...

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561033840725983233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561051677486088193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560946489589141504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560945744701530112

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

NotSure said:


> The use of buzz words as an argument is always a good sign of lacks in education in the specific sphere.
> 
> There are no "microwave and dishwasher components" as such, there are ICs with a specific function, so they can be used for typical tasks. Has Russia problems with microelectronics? Sure that, no country is perfect. But in coop with China and own programms this is a short term problem.
> 
> And regarding the speed: Like i said, you have obviously no clue, what you are talking about. Speed is not all, nor the structure size and especially not in the military field.
> 
> 
> You still don't get, don't you? It's *not* about promoting a narrative, it is about blackmailing a country with sanctions or even war. This is exactly what UKUSAs economic hitman and ambassadors are doing. To call it Mafia Methods would be an understatement. But it is the angloid modus operandi since...centuries?


Nobody forcing Putin to stop drinking wodka or invade Ukraine. He can recall the invasion army. This war can be over in 1 minute. What’s stopping him? His own aggression against Ukraine? Or his stooges? Accusing others for own aggression is lame.


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561058773082546180
Sevastopol looking like Baghdad


----------



## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


> No you can't properly read or have probs with elementary school math. Or even both.


Talking about yourself now?

The UN showed wide dissaproval worldwide. With even china choosing to stay silent and abstain on their “forever brothers” russia. 

Russia only being supported in their “save the donbass” bullshit by the likes of north korea, eritrea, iran. 🤣.

Laughable. Like you are.


NotSure said:


> And abstained means what? Correct: No active support. Considering the fact, that UKUSA is blackmailing all countries to support their resolutions against Russia, this means a lot


Blackmailing? What was reaction then on india? Hardly any.

You also overestimate how much ukusa can force such a thing. Look at UN votes on Israel for instance…

Face it. Russias agression was hardly supportable. 



NotSure said:


> The UN found nothing, they simply parroted UKUSAs antirussian propaganda. And this is exactly what you are doing here as a typical BRD-NPC.


Russia and propaganda go hand in hand. And their “donbass genocide” disproven by third parties. 
Simple…next! 


NotSure said:


> Lol, kid, you're a moronic hobby propagandist. If you try to manipulate people, then pls not with such stupid nonsense.


Ah please, your IQ is to low to tell the difference between simple logic and russian trollfarms. 

Your too far gone…everything not supporting your conspiracy theories is “fake news”. Sad stuff.


NotSure said:


> First: It is war time, most people flee, regardless their position.
> Second: Many flee to Russia, and you are using their absence in Ukraine against Russia? To prove ethnic cleansing? You do not even know the meaning of this term.
> Third: The SBU is oppressing and murdering people with even a remote pro Russian view, of course many Ukrainians will wait until there is no SBU and/or this towns will be a part of Russia, so the SBU can't reach them.


Russia levels cities and attacks civ infrastructure too often (hospitals) to be a coincidence. This forces 85% to flee, mostly to west ukraine btw. 

Then russia propaganda shows the remaining 15% russian supporters. How “happy they are with their liberators”

Such a cynical warfare and such disgusting manipulation.


----------



## NotSure

Viet said:


> Nobody forcing Putin to stop drinking wodka or invade Ukraine. He can recall the invasion army. This war can be over in 1 minute. What’s stopping him? His own aggression against Ukraine? Or his stooges? Accusing others for own aggression is lame.


Putin does not drink vodka at all. This point tells a lot about you and your cliche propaganda.


ZeGerman said:


> Talking about yourself now?
> 
> The UN showed wide dissaproval worldwide. With even china choosing to stay silent and abstain on their “forever brothers” russia.
> 
> Russia only being supported in their “save the donbass” bullshit by the likes of north korea, eritrea, iran. 🤣.
> 
> Laughable. Like you are.
> 
> Blackmailing? What was reaction then on india? Hardly any.
> 
> You also overestimate how much ukusa can force such a thing. Look at UN votes on Israel for instance…
> 
> Face it. Russias agression was hardly supportable.
> 
> 
> Russia and propaganda go hand in hand. And their “donbass genocide” disproven by third parties.
> Simple…next!
> 
> Ah please, your IQ is to low to tell the difference between simple logic and russian trollfarms.
> 
> Your too far gone…everything not supporting your conspiracy theories is “fake news”. Sad stuff.
> 
> Russia levels cities and attacks civ infrastructure too often (hospitals) to be a coincidence. This forces 85% to flee, mostly to west ukraine btw.
> 
> Then russia propaganda shows the remaining 15% russian supporters. How “happy they are with their liberators”
> 
> Such a cynical warfare and such disgusting manipulation.



Not even one of your lines refute even one of my arguments. What you are doing, is to parrot your previous claims in the same or similar form. Plus the well known anti russian propaganda cliches as a "force multiplier". Lol.

Did i forgot something? Ah, yes, the fake indignation in your last line. Real moralinsauer.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

jhungary said:


> I don't understand why the need to argue with an idiot.
> 
> I mean if he thinks Russian sanction is only supported by 15% of population, that should be all fine and dandy for the Russian, then why bring up sanction if this won't work?
> 
> On the other hand, people like him can talk tough, but no action, ask him if he would move to Russia if the sanction does not do much? Of course, he can talk trash when he is sitting pretty in Germany...


Putin has many supporters. Ranging from far right party AfD to leftist die Linke. Angela Merkel, the previous chancellor was very supportive to Russia and China. She pretty much did appeasement politics. She said she knew Putin hatred of democracy, the West, the NATO, the liberty, everything western however she kept it to herself and did not tell anyone. Instead she means the west should give Putin something to win.
Merkel, probably the most naive and stupid in history. Now Germany’s gas price is 10x higher than in the US. Millions homes can’t pay the bill.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC




----------



## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


> Putin does not drink vodka at all. This point tells a lot about you and your cliche propaganda.
> 
> 
> Not even one of your lines refute even one of my arguments. What you are doing, is to parrot your previous claims in the same or similar form. Plus the well known anti russian propaganda cliches as a "force multiplier". Lol.
> 
> Did i forgot something? Ah, yes, the fake indignation in your last line. Real moralinsauer.


I am sorry, i could not find any single argument in your post. Just mindless russian propaganda. 

As such i simply repeated the facts as they are. 









United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/1 - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





no indication of “genocide”








Conflict in Ukraine’s Donbas: A Visual Explainer







www.crisisgroup.org





Now stop responding to me and tend to your russian trollfarm…its in bad shape


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russia facing an unprecedented brain drain.
> 4 million have left Russia in the first quarter 2022. 46 percent increase to 2021. more than 11 million packed and left the country since Putin came to power.
> The last Jew wants to flee too.
> By this pace Russia will become emptied in 10 years. What remains are nationalists, racists and warmongers. Such as Lavrov who likens Zelinskki with Hitler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia mulls dissolving Israeli emigration agency | DW | 18.08.2022
> 
> 
> Sources suggest Moscow fears a brain drain if too many Jewish citizens leave Russia for Israel. The Justice Ministry seeks the closure of the Russian branch of the Jewish Agency for Israel, and a court will now decide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.dw.com



As Russians flee Russia and population decline due to low birth rate, Chinese move in to occupy Russia. By 2050 Russia is expected to be majority Chinese.


----------



## NotSure

ZeGerman said:


> no indication of “genocide”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Conflict in Ukraine’s Donbas: A Visual Explainer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.crisisgroup.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now stop responding to me and tend to your russian trollfarm…its in bad shape





> Registration​
> The International Crisis Group is an independent, multinational, not-for-profit organisation, based as a legal entity at: 1629 K Street NW, Suite 1000, Washington DC 20006, USA."


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561046086369873924

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560964462462500866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560991083693281281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560979101606879232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560969042952953857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560968701431750657


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560950967503360002

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560682870854885376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560677344737501185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560627658198634496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560623052282421248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560674309701779456


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560903693976961024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560968701431750657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560397859262005248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560415349031542784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560416209203597315

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560387945105874947


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560215104465129472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560225370837815304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560043907165163527

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560031454503084032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559937830134185986

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559589471854682112


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560296379980959747

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560651135257550848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560305962887643139

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560304688402145287

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560049246052704256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560047330149146625


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1556899335937396736





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1559594645776203786





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1558892433437609985





https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1560587156157972481





https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1560877153344012289





https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1560326976866500610


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558164576188997634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557686343202967555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557393038598701057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558164576188997634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557686343202967555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557393038598701057


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1556977882408288256





https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1559935565990084611





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1559594645776203786





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1557419123948359686





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1557367701600964610





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1557350326122024961


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558120891816579077

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558499644468068356

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559133885862236163

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559594645776203786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558478070050439169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558495621048373249


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556683296360337408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556356059161366529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556358977872601094

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555215757885292546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557367701600964610

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558535684977205251


dbc said:


> if you are a subject of her majesty you ought to be very careful peddling Putin's propaganda while living in Britain. A British youtuber had his bank account and assets frozen for spreading Russian propaganda..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YouTuber sanctioned over Russian 'propaganda'
> 
> 
> Graham Phillips was accused of committing a war crime for interviewing a UK national captured by Russian troops.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



The kid can have his own opinion. The Queen has no power to come to his door and place him under arrest. The UK is not at war with Russia.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Dogfight Over Donbas
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560325776477659143



1980s Su-27 is no match for Su-35 backed by A-50 AWACs.



aviator_fan said:


> You are right money will not win a war, particularly an asymmetric one.
> 
> But in a symeetric situation, money helps. Given that each HIMARS round is blowing up ammunition rounds in the 100s or 1000s, how do you suppose Russian strategy is superior?



Most of HIMARS ammo are destroyed in storage by Iskander which has range 500 km. Only some of the HIMARS ammo are used in war.


----------



## NotSure

Kiev/Nato assassinated Dugin's daughter Daria in Moscow with a car bomb.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

NotSure said:


> Kiev/Nato assassinated Dugin's daughter Daria in Moscow.



Man. That's brutal. CIA is known as the world's most powerful assassination organization, with more than 30,000 employees. That's crazy many number of agents.


----------



## dBSPL

NotSure said:


> Kiev/Nato assassinated Dugin's daughter Daria in Moscow.


Frankly, I don't think it has anything to do with Kiev. An intelligence operation that would exceed Kiev's height. I understand it as the message of the USA.

But as a person, trying to understand Russian politik understandings and psychology, I'm almost certain that this will also make Russia's moves more aggressive, If it is not related to an intra-Russian showdown.

edit: Also, completely off-topic but what does Darya mean in Russian?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dBSPL said:


> Frankly, I don't think it has anything to do with Kiev. An intelligence operation that would exceed Kiev's height. I understand it as the message of the USA.
> 
> But as a covert ops aficionado, trying to understand Russian politik understandings and psychology, I'm almost certain that this will also make Russia's moves more aggressive.
> 
> Ethical lines are now crossed.



Yeah. The more they humiliate Russians, the more angry Russians get. Face is very important in Russia which is an eastern country where face is very important.


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## Vergennes

b*tch got what she deserved


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561141762848169988

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557346588372176899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560015571122622466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561055870712152064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561056701574438918

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561065186194296832


----------



## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> b*tch got what she deserved
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561141762848169988


In this case, we cannot characterize people who have similar discourses against the Russians as civilians, we cannot see what they say as freedom of expression, and there is no problem in their murder with terrorist acts.

There is no end to it.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dBSPL said:


> In this case, we cannot characterize people who have similar discourses against the Russians as civilians, we cannot see what they say as freedom of expression, and there is no problem in their murder with terrorist acts.
> 
> There is no end to it.



Agreed. Murder begets murder. Murder is not the solution to every problem in the world.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557355371634860040


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin has many supporters. Ranging from far right party AfD to leftist die Linke. Angela Merkel, the previous chancellor was very supportive to Russia and China. She pretty much did appeasement politics. She said she knew Putin hatred of democracy, the West, the NATO, the liberty, everything western however she kept it to herself and did not tell anyone. Instead she means the west should give Putin something to win.
> Merkel, probably the most naive and stupid in history. Now Germany’s gas price is 10x higher than in the US. Millions homes can’t pay the bill.


Well, I have friend in Russia about to eat potatoes to live by, stuff has gone up around 30% before the war and portion amazingly had gone down, he said they are start selling 900ml and 400ml milk now, instead of the 1 litre and 2 litres we are accustomed to in the West (Or 1 Gallon for those who live in the US). Yet it is still more expensive than it was before. 

People need to get slap around sometime to see the truth. I mean EU is blind to let Russia run wild like they did for over a decade, Russian probably need to do the same.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Well, I have friend in Russia about to eat potatoes to live by, stuff has gone up around 30% before the war and portion amazingly had gone down, he said they are start selling 900ml and 400ml milk now, instead of the 1 litre and 2 litres we are accustomed to in the West (Or 1 Gallon for those who live in the US). Yet it is still more expensive than it was before.
> 
> People need to get slap around sometime to see the truth. I mean EU is blind to let Russia run wild like they did for over a decade, Russian probably need to do the same.



No pain. No gain. Now that EU and Russia are official enemies after a bromance from 1990 to 2014, Russia is with China for good. And this time it's permanent.


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## Soldier35

Soldiers of PMC Wagner spoke about the battles in Ukraine with the elite units of the Ukrainian army near Bakhmut. And the situation with the wounded and dead of the Ukrainian army. (video with subtitles)






Episode of the battle in Ukraine. Paratrooper units on BMD-4M airborne combat vehicles seized an advantageous line and ambushed a Ukrainian reconnaissance group. Then, with the help of the BMD-4M, a column of armored vehicles of Ukraine was attacked near the forest belt, which was moving towards the positions of the airborne units. Armament of the BMD-4M: 100 mm rifled gun 2A70, four ATGM "Arkan", 30 mm gun 2A72 and 7.62 mm PKTM machine gun.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Soldier35 said:


> Soldiers of PMC Wagner spoke about the battles in Ukraine with the elite units of the Ukrainian army near Bakhmut. And the situation with the wounded and dead of the Ukrainian army. (video with subtitles)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Episode of the battle in Ukraine. Paratrooper units on BMD-4M airborne combat vehicles seized an advantageous line and ambushed a Ukrainian reconnaissance group. Then, with the help of the BMD-4M, a column of armored vehicles of Ukraine was attacked near the forest belt, which was moving towards the positions of the airborne units. Armament of the BMD-4M: 100 mm rifled gun 2A70, four ATGM "Arkan", 30 mm gun 2A72 and 7.62 mm PKTM machine gun.



BMD-4 proves to be a popular tank. It's got pretty good fire power with laser guided missiles range 4 km, commander's hunter killer sight, thermal sight, fully amphibious. One addition I'd like to see is a muzzle reference system to improve accuracy with unguided rounds.


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## jhungary

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> No pain. No gain. Now that EU and Russia are official enemies after a bromance from 1990 to 2014, Russia is with China for good. And this time it's permanent.


Seriously, don't ever quote me again, just because you change your name does not mean people don't know who you are....

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560954431767707651

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560225286679105536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558850902265561089


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## sammuel

Vergennes said:


> b*tch got what she deserved
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561141762848169988



Darya Dugina: Daughter of Putin ally killed in Moscow bomb - report​








*The daughter of a close ally to Russia's President Vladimir Putin has reportedly been killed near Moscow.*

According to state media, Darya Dugina died after her car exploded in flames while she was driving home.
It is thought that her father, the Russian philosopher Alexander Dugin who is known as "Putin's brain," may have been the intended target of the attack.

Mr Dugin is a prominent ultra-nationalist ideologue who is believed to be close to the Russian president.
According to Russian media outlet 112, the pair were due to travel back from an event on Saturday evening in the same car before Mr Dugin made the decision to travel separately from his daughter at the last minute.
Unverified footage posted on Telegram appears to show Mr Dugin watching in shock as emergency services arrive at the scene of the burning wreck of a vehicle.

The BBC has not been able to verify the footage independently.
Law enforcement agencies confirmed to Tass news agency that a female driver died when an SUV exploded in the village of Bolshiye Vyazemy, but provided no further details.

There has been no official comment from Russian authorities so far.

Despite not holding an official position in government, Ms Dugina's father is a close ally of the Russian president and has even been branded "Putin's Rasputin".

The philosopher's daughter, Darya Dugina, was herself a prominent journalist who vocally supported the invasion of Ukraine.

Earlier this year she was sanctioned by US and UK authorities, who accused the 30-year-old of contributing to online "disinformation" in relation to Russia's invasion.

In May, she described the war as a "clash of civilisations" in an interview and expressed pride in the fact that both she and her father had been sanctioned by the West.

Alexander Dugin was sanctioned by the US in 2015 for his alleged involvement in the Russian annexation of Crimea.

His writings are credited with having a deep influence on Vladimir Putin's worldview and he is considered to be a chief intellectual architect of the ultra-nationalist ideology adhered to by many in the Kremlin.

For years, Mr Dugin has called on Moscow to assert itself more aggressively on the global stage and has supported Russian military action in Ukraine.









Darya Dugina: Daughter of Putin ally killed in Moscow blast


Darya Dugina died in car bombing that may have targeted her father, philosopher Alexander Dugin.



www.bbc.com


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557471804385550340

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558123885165412355

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560674309701779456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556701245360013314


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## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> 1. Learn to read.
> 2. I heard this nonsense surely before you. Even the most obscure conspiracy theory about the 911 is more likely than this propaganda. The question alone from a murican NPC to a half Russian half German is more than rediculous. What's next? You will try to teach your father how to f*ck?


Way to defend your argument, you’re a joke 👍🏿


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, I have friend in Russia about to eat potatoes to live by, stuff has gone up around 30% before the war and portion amazingly had gone down, he said they are start selling 900ml and 400ml milk now, instead of the 1 litre and 2 litres we are accustomed to in the West (Or 1 Gallon for those who live in the US). Yet it is still more expensive than it was before.
> 
> People need to get slap around sometime to see the truth. I mean EU is blind to let Russia run wild like they did for over a decade, Russian probably need to do the same.


Being poor is sad. But no comparison between Germany and Russia. Russia minimum wage is 123 euros per month, Germany 1,500 euros. Russians can live on potatoes, Germans? No way.
Putin is just a dumb ex spy. He cares little to nothing of common population. Also, sad, many in Germany fell on Putin’s peaceful rise shit.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Being poor is sad. But no comparison between Germany and Russia. Russia minimum wage is 123 euros per month, Germany 1,500 euros. Russians can live on potatoes, Germans? No way.
> Putin is just a dumb ex spy. He cares little to nothing of common population. Also, sad, many in Germany fell on Putin’s peaceful rise shit.



Apples and oranges. Russia don't use euro. EU don't use ruble. Compare by PPP basket of goods.


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## ZeGerman

sammuel said:


> Darya Dugina: Daughter of Putin ally killed in Moscow bomb - report​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The daughter of a close ally to Russia's President Vladimir Putin has reportedly been killed near Moscow.*
> 
> According to state media, Darya Dugina died after her car exploded in flames while she was driving home.
> It is thought that her father, the Russian philosopher Alexander Dugin who is known as "Putin's brain," may have been the intended target of the attack.
> 
> Mr Dugin is a prominent ultra-nationalist ideologue who is believed to be close to the Russian president.
> According to Russian media outlet 112, the pair were due to travel back from an event on Saturday evening in the same car before Mr Dugin made the decision to travel separately from his daughter at the last minute.
> Unverified footage posted on Telegram appears to show Mr Dugin watching in shock as emergency services arrive at the scene of the burning wreck of a vehicle.
> 
> The BBC has not been able to verify the footage independently.
> Law enforcement agencies confirmed to Tass news agency that a female driver died when an SUV exploded in the village of Bolshiye Vyazemy, but provided no further details.
> 
> There has been no official comment from Russian authorities so far.
> 
> Despite not holding an official position in government, Ms Dugina's father is a close ally of the Russian president and has even been branded "Putin's Rasputin".
> 
> The philosopher's daughter, Darya Dugina, was herself a prominent journalist who vocally supported the invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> Earlier this year she was sanctioned by US and UK authorities, who accused the 30-year-old of contributing to online "disinformation" in relation to Russia's invasion.
> 
> In May, she described the war as a "clash of civilisations" in an interview and expressed pride in the fact that both she and her father had been sanctioned by the West.
> 
> Alexander Dugin was sanctioned by the US in 2015 for his alleged involvement in the Russian annexation of Crimea.
> 
> His writings are credited with having a deep influence on Vladimir Putin's worldview and he is considered to be a chief intellectual architect of the ultra-nationalist ideology adhered to by many in the Kremlin.
> 
> For years, Mr Dugin has called on Moscow to assert itself more aggressively on the global stage and has supported Russian military action in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Darya Dugina: Daughter of Putin ally killed in Moscow blast
> 
> 
> Darya Dugina died in car bombing that may have targeted her father, philosopher Alexander Dugin.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


These are the real nazis….

Still sad to see the daughter getting involved in what clearly was an attempted attack on Dugin. 

The 3 days special operation is starting to leak into russia though….


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> These are the real nazis….
> 
> Still sad to see the daughter getting involved in what clearly was an attempted attack on Dugin.
> 
> The 3 days special operation is starting to leak into russia though….



Nationalists. Ukrainians are also very nationalistic and resentful of Russians. It goes both ways. The sword cuts both sides. Hate begets hate.

In China we have an old saying. _ku hai wu bian_, _hui tou shi an. _The bitter sea has no edge. Turn your head around and there is the shore. The only way to stop war is to stop hate. That is why, even though Japanese did unspeakable war crimes in China, Chinese do not hate Japanese.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Apples and oranges. Russia don't use euro. EU don't use ruble. Compare by PPP basket of goods.


What’s the real value of rubble? Can Putin give common Russians more potatoes to eat. Russian men die early before reaching 65y. they can’t enjoy retirement. Russia economy is in a dead spiral it will shrink by 15 percent this year. 6 months into the war Putin has destroyed everything Russia built in 30 years. He cuts off Russia from the US, Europe. 1k foreign companies left. Foreign investments, technology, expertise: all forever gone. 

Russian ships can’t sail, planes can’t fly. What’s Putin’s endgame?
Ending as chinese colony?

Billions dollars in extra earning in oil and gas won’t save Russia future. All temporary.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> What’s the real value of rubble? Can Putin give common Russians more potatoes to eat. Russian men die early before reaching 65y. they can’t enjoy retirement. Russia economy is in a dead spiral it will shrink by 15 percent this year. 6 months into the war Putin has destroyed everything Russia built in 30 years. He cuts off Russia from the US, Europe.



Russia has more food than EU. EU imports food. Russia exports food. Without Russian food, EU's very densely populated countries will starve.


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## sammuel

ZeGerman said:


> These are the real nazis….
> 
> Still sad to see the daughter getting involved in what clearly was an attempted attack on Dugin.
> 
> The 3 days special operation is starting to leak into russia though….





Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Nationalists. Ukrainians are also very nationalistic and resentful of Russians. It goes both ways. The sword cuts both sides. Hate begets hate.
> 
> In China we have an old saying. _ku hai wu bian_, _hui tou shi an. _The bitter sea has no edge. Turn your head around and there is the shore. The only way to stop war is to stop hate. That is why, even though Japanese did unspeakable war crimes in China, Chinese do not hate Japanese.



The man is blind supporter of a dictator , an enemy of free speech which he considers a " western values , and supports the expansion of Russia to neighboring countries.

Has nothing to do with being a nationalist.

"There are no more opponents of Putin's course and, if there are, they are mentally ill and need to be sent off for clinical examination. Putin is everywhere, Putin is everything, Putin is absolute, and Putin is indispensable"

"The Russian Renaissance can only stop by Kiev."










Aleksandr Dugin - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## gambit

Huffal said:


> Isnt their performance to do with their doctrine.


The word 'performance' implies a measurement against a standard. In this case, it is more Russia's military against its own standards and less against others'. That said, if you have certain war and combat doctrines, you should have training and equipment to perform against your doctrines. It is now six months and Russia is effectively stalled against/by a combatant force that under all paper specs, Russia should have created its own version of Desert Storm.



Huffal said:


> Unlike NATOs doctrine, isnt theirs mostly to do with denying the enemy air force the ability to use their air force against their ground troops.


Unlike? What do you think is US/NATO war doctrine? That was a rhetorical question.

Am US Air Force, and Time magazine has an article that meshes well with your question and this current Russia-Ukraine war, at least on the airpower side. I suggest you read the article slowly and carefully, as well as my responses to specific sections from that article.









Exclusive: Ukraine’s Secret Effort to Train for U.S. Jets


The program shows how Ukrainians are using invention, social media and disregard for protocol against Russia.




time.com





Alexander Gorgan was lying in a three-foot-deep trench dug to defend a snow-covered village north of Kyiv in March, and Russian artillery shells were shattering the frozen ground on all sides. He could hear a platoon commander in a foxhole nearby shouting into the radio: *“Can you strike back? Can you hit them? Can you cover us? Please give us cover. We need support. Cover us!” But there was nothing to hit back with.*​​Gorgan believes in God but at that moment, he wasn’t convinced God was going to save his life. “In that situation, there really has to be something tangible that can help you, and I thought about the A-10,” Gorgan told TIME. “I would be really lucky to hear the noise from his cannon.”​
At the highest level, the nth goal of airpower is to support ground forces because still, to win is to control the ground. Gorgan heard the desperate cry for support of any kind, but most desiring -- of airpower. It is not spoken over the radio but ask any soldier who have been in combat, attacks from the third dimension is the most terrifying or the most encouraging. US war doctrines have it that US ground forces will not be under enemy airpower and that has been so since the end of the Korean War. In Desert Storm, we secured Iraqi airspace before general Norman Schwarzkopf gave the order for allied ground forces to move.

...while the A-10 is well-designed to attack tanks, it is vulnerable in contested airspace like that over Ukraine, where Russian jets and anti-aircraft missiles remain active.​
My comments are not about the A-10 but the A-10 is the ideal symbol for what we are discussing.

Criticisms on the A-10, especially its vulnerability in contested airspace as how Ukraine is, seems to reasonable but is ultimately misguided. The A-10 is one instrument among many in US war doctrines regarding the use of airpower, which is to deny the enemy airspace and to send a unique tool to attack enemy ground forces. That unique tool is the A-10. We have other platforms to render contested airspaces -- ours. The F-15 and F-16 are designed primarily for air-air. The A-10 is designed primarily for air-ground, specifically, air-ground that are close to ground troops or 'close air support' (CAS). We do not want the A-10 to worry about enemy air superiority fighters. We want our ground troops to fight in 3D as enemy ground troops fight in 2D. Which do *YOU* think have greater odds of victory? Not theirs.

But why do we have such clear platform mission distinctions? *BECAUSE WE CAN AFFORD IT*. Not only that, once we designed and built platforms to suit our doctrines, we trained our forces to exploit those advantages. *BECAUSE WE CAN AFFORD IT*.

*“The Ukrainians have surprised us, surprised everyone, with how innovative they can be,”* says former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Bill Taylor, who has known Gorgan for more than 15 years.​
The 'everyone' here includes the Russians. Make no mistake about that. But willpower and innovation can only go so far. No matter how much individual US airmen helped the Ukrainians, without the actual hardware, the Ukrainians will lose. Except they did not. Instead, absent US hardware, the Ukrainians managed to take advantage of Russian military shortcomings, incompetence, corruption, poor training, and even inept leadership to stall the Russian military. What does that say about the Russian military in general? Not good no matter what its war doctrines.

One of the instructors introduced himself and offered a tour, asking that his name not appear in print. Russian President Vladimir Putin “only understands force,” he says. “So give us the instruments, and we will deal with him.” *The A-10 Thunderbolt would be a decisive instrument, he says. If the U.S. provides it to Ukraine, “you will see the difference in the number of targets we’d be able to hit.* You’d see that in the weakening of their offensive positions. And you’d see that in the confidence of our infantry in moving from defense to offense.”​
The confidence, or possibly overconfidence, is amazing. Nevertheless, we are not looking at one person's perspective but that of many US airmen, specifically A-10 pilots, active duty and retired, who are covertly training the Ukrainian pilots, and many of them came from Desert Storm. Despite the fact that the A-10 was designed primarily for air-ground, the confidence here is that the Ukrainian airspace is sufficiently contested that the A-10, under Ukrainian command, can change the course of the war. What does that say about the Russian Air Force? Not good.

*“They are more valuable than generals,”* Gorgan says. Even before the Russian invasion, the identities of active fighter pilots were a closely guarded secret in Ukraine, and all of them lived with the risk of assassination.​
Back in Desert Storm, general Norman Schwarzkopf gave his air component commander general Charles Horner practically _carte blanche_ permission to do whatever necessary to ensure allied ground troops will not face the Iraqi Air Force. Horner delivered in ways that will reflect in military academies all over the world and for decades to come. The VKS failed miserably over Ukraine.

When U.S. Secretary of the Air Force Frank Kendall was asked in late July if the U.S. would consider giving Ukraine A-10s, he didn’t rule it out in the long term. “Older U.S. systems are a possibility,” Kendall said, speaking at the Aspen Security Forum.​
You can use the forum's search feature and read my comment about the Russian use of the VKS as little more than 'airborne artillery' (keywords). The A-10 was designed as such. The jet is not technically sophisticated like the F-15 and F-16, and leave alone the F-22 and F-35. When I was active duty, I sat in the cockpit of an A-10 from Spangdahlem and I jokingly said I could have fly the A-10 after my time in the Cessna 152. The A-10 was designed as an 'airborne artillery' platform. But in Ukraine, the VKS is flying all of its fighters as 'airborne artillery'. So either the VKS have limited war doctrines regarding airpower or it is logistically so poor that it cannot afford to drop bombs past the ground troops front lines. Either way, this enabled the Ukrainians to stall the Russian Army advances.

“As for the American pilots and instructors, they were extremely cautious in the ways they helped us, because they are prohibited from having any direct contact with foreign military personnel,” Gorgan said. “They made clear that they could not and would not pass along any classified information.”​
If US/NATO air forces are in this war, the Russian Army would be decimated.

I have no problems speaking objectively that by all paper measures, the VKS should have taken all of Ukrainian sky by the second week. But after two months, in my opinion, the VKS is a shiddy air force.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> The man is blind supporter of a dictator , an enemy of free speech which he considers a " western values , and supports the expansion of Russia to neighboring countries.
> 
> Has nothing to do with being a nationalist.
> 
> "There are no more opponents of Putin's course and, if there are, they are mentally ill and need to be sent off for clinical examination. Putin is everywhere, Putin is everything, Putin is absolute, and Putin is indispensable"
> 
> "The Russian Renaissance can only stop by Kiev."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aleksandr Dugin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Lots of mentally ill people around. We don't go around murdering them. Hell, even the US don't murder anyone unless they carried out hostile actions.

People are entitled to their opinions. That's why KKK are allowed rallies in the US. It's basic human rights and freedoms.








gambit said:


> It is now six months and Russia is effectively stalled against/by a combatant force that under all paper specs, Russia should have created its own version of Desert Storm.



Russia has achieved its objectives:

1. annexation of Donetsk, Luhank, Kherson

2. land bridge to Crimea

3. prevention of Ukraine from joining NATO because of the first permanent war in human history

To Russians, they have succeeded.



gambit said:


> If US/NATO air forces are in this war, the Russian Army would be decimated.



There are no ifs and buts. The US don't even invade a weak country like Cuba or North Korea or Venezuela, not even Iran, or Armenia, or Belarus, or Serbia, let alone Russia which has a much bigger population.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has more food than EU. EU imports food. Russia exports food. Without Russian food, EU's very densely populated countries will starve.


EU imports foods from Russia because cheaper if compared to let’s say domestic made. It’s pure economic logics. However Putin knows he relies on imports of machinery from EU. Russia gas infra is built by German companies especially by BASF. Without imports of spare parts and maintenance Russia gas infra will collapse. Same for Russia agra exports.
Look around you, in your house or factory or road, do you see any finished products made in Russia?
Russia as industrial country hardly makes anything for widely use.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

gambit said:


> I have no problems speaking objectively that by all paper measures, the VKS should have taken all of Ukrainian sky by the second week. But after two months, in my opinion, the VKS is a shiddy air force.



And how did Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria work out for the US? The US weren't able to annex Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria in the end despite fighting there for decades.



Viet said:


> EU imports foods from Russia because cheaper if compared to let’s say domestic made. It’s pure economic logics. However Putin knows he relies on imports of machinery from EU. Russia gas infra is built by German companies especially by BASF. Without imports of spare parts and maintenance Russia gas infra will collapse. Same for Russia agra exports.



Incorrect. Chinese tech is vastly superior and less expensive. Now that Russia and EU bromance is officially over for good. Russia import everything from China instead.



Viet said:


> Look around you, in your house or factory or road, do you see any finished products made in Russia?
> Russia as industrial country hardly makes anything for widely use.



Not in commercial products but in terms of military products Russia is still stop notch.


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## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


>


Which is based on OHCHR figures in which multiple reports do not indicate any “genocide”. 


And ofcourse the civilian deaths are massively lopsided now with russias “liberation” as also indicated by the UN.


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## A.P. Richelieu

NotSure said:


> The use of buzz words as an argument is always a good sign of lacks in education in the specific sphere.
> 
> There are no "microwave and dishwasher components" as such, there are ICs with a specific function, so they can be used for typical tasks. Has Russia problems with microelectronics? Sure that, no country is perfect. But in coop with China and own programms this is a short term problem.
> 
> And regarding the speed: Like i said, you have obviously no clue, what you are talking about. Speed is not all, nor the structure size and especially not in the military field.
> 
> 
> You still don't get, don't you? It's *not* about promoting a narrative, it is about blackmailing a country with sanctions or even war. This is exactly what UKUSAs economic hitman and ambassadors are doing. To call it Mafia Methods would be an understatement. But it is the angloid modus operandi since...centuries?


Yes, the US blackmailed China not to vote for their ”ally” .


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yes, the US blackmailed China not to vote for their ”ally” .



China does not interfere in another country's internal affair. China always abstains. This is Chinese tradition. Has nothing do with America or Russia.



ZeGerman said:


> Which is based on OHCHR figures in which multiple reports do not indicate any “genocide”.
> 
> 
> And ofcourse the civilian deaths are massively lopsided now with russias “liberation” as also indicated by the UN.



Or as the Americans call it. It's just collateral damage.


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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China does not interfere in another country's internal affair. China always abstains. This is Chinese tradition. Has nothing do with America or Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Or as the Americans call it. It's just collateral damage.


It’s a myth. China does interfere other countries internal affair. Ccp will put thumb down or up if anyone goes other way around. first, they will use economic blackmail. Then money, then politics, then ultimate ratio the PLA. Chinese just do things smarter than sorry to say dumb Russians.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hmm. Looks like the Russians may have found an answer to MANPADS.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559548025080582145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560198793932509190
2nd generation Raptor patrol boats. The American engines have been replaced by Chinese engines after Russia America bromance ended for good. These can be used to bolster Kherson defense by patrolling in the Dnipr river around Kherson.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560727815070404610


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## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Apples and oranges. Russia don't use euro. EU don't use ruble. Compare by PPP basket of goods.


Can you stop posting dozens of links of the same thing? For instance 15 twitterpics of a dpr holding the same anti-drone gun? 

Its Messing up the thread speed again.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> And how did Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria work out for the US? The US weren't able to annex Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria in the end despite fighting there for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect. Chinese tech is vastly superior and less expensive. Now that Russia and EU bromance is officially over for good. Russia import everything from China instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in commercial products but in terms of military products Russia is still stop notch.


Yes excelled only in military. while Apple, Samsung bring out new smartphones Russia brings out new thermobombastic flameflower.
The rest from shoes to smartphone comes from China, and now Turkey.

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## mulj

Vergennes said:


> b*tch got what she deserved
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561141762848169988


Not familiar with her persona but her dad is well known islamophobe but i find it rather compelling how is her death cheered on social platforms amomg westerners and meamwhile they cry about stabbing of that scumbag rushdie.

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## qwerrty

mulj said:


> Not familiar with her persona but her dad is well known islamophobe but i find it *rather compelling how is her death cheered on social platforms amomg westerners *and meamwhile they cry about stabbing of that scumbag rushdie.


the same people that say they love chinese people only hate the government and cheering for big chinese dams to collapse whenever they have flood over there


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## etylo

Viet said:


> It’s a myth. China does interfere other countries internal affair. Ccp will put thumb down or up if anyone goes other way around. first, they will use economic blackmail. Then money, then politics, then ultimate ratio the PLA. Chinese just do things smarter than sorry to say dumb Russians.


Don't you Viet smear Chinese all the time for the wrongs they didn't do. When did Chinese interfere in other countries' internal affairs let alone invade others ?


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## HorusRa

What real Denazification actually looks like.

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## Broccoli

NotSure said:


> Kiev/Nato assassinated Dugin's daughter Daria in Moscow with a car bomb.



Most likely powerful Russians who'm, rightfully so, see this war as bad for their business and nation as a whole and Dugin familys egging for war is seen as a problem.



mulj said:


> Not familiar with her persona but her dad is well known islamophobe but i find it rather compelling how is her death cheered on social platforms amomg westerners and meamwhile they cry about stabbing of that scumbag rushdie.



So you are comparing a guy who wrote a book you don't like to a dude who's whole family says that Ukraine should be invaded and Ukrainians killed? Cool story.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561191896172601351

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561304727069024257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561302676016701441

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## jhungary

dBSPL said:


> Frankly, I don't think it has anything to do with Kiev. An intelligence operation that would exceed Kiev's height. I understand it as the message of the USA.
> 
> But as a person, trying to understand Russian politik understandings and psychology, I'm almost certain that this will also make Russia's moves more aggressive, If it is not related to an intra-Russian showdown.
> 
> edit: Also, completely off-topic but what does Darya mean in Russian?


In an Intelligence standpoint, assassinate her or her father have no strategic value, I doubt this is a CIA ops. And if this is indeed a CIA op, then you will need to think how safe it is for Russian in Russia, because CIA is a big organisation with very
long reach, if they can do it and kill a personal friend/guidance of Putin in Russian heartland, it can do it to anyone in Russia.

This is more like underground movement in Russia or a job from an Ukrainian agent.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561323505009950720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561318389506785281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561317394978684928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561317409453219840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561316155557658626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561314466901417988


Viet said:


> Yes excelled only in military. while Apple, Samsung bring out new smartphones Russia brings out new thermobombastic flameflower.
> The rest from shoes to smartphone comes from China, and now Turkey.











Samsung and Apple left Russia. China's phone brands filled the gap


It took mere months for China's top phone makers to seize the market share Apple and Samsung left behind.




fortune.com


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561292255989825541

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561286603330539520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561279137129631746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561288724293554178


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561276453366497282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561271473691660290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561254855355817985


----------



## HorusRa




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561341108457725953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561335015203651585


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561323505009950720
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561318389506785281
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561317394978684928
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561317409453219840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561316155557658626
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561314466901417988
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samsung and Apple left Russia. China's phone brands filled the gap
> 
> 
> It took mere months for China's top phone makers to seize the market share Apple and Samsung left behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fortune.com


That’s expected chinese products will flood Russia once western companies pulled out.
the Russians produce virtually nothing.
If they want smartphones they buy from China.
If shoes they buy from China. Garments, underwear, toilet paper, cars, machines, chips, computers.
Everything.
At the end of the day Putin, Lavrov wears, using everything chinese while condemning western imperialism.
Good for China if you ask me.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> That’s expected chinese products will flood Russia once western companies pulled out.
> the Russians produce virtually nothing.
> If they want smartphones they buy from China.
> If shoes they buy from China. Garments, underwear, toilet paper, cars, machines, chips, computers.
> Everything.
> At the end of the day Putin, Lavrov wears, using everything chinese while condemning western imperialism.
> Good for China if you ask me.



They do make some smartphones. But yeah, considering Russia only has 150 million people, talent pool is obviously much less than China which has 1.4 billion people. Most of their stuffs still have to imported from their Chinese masters.









Russian AYYA T1 based on Aurora OS has physical button against wiretapping | Nokiamob


Aurora OS based AYYA T1 smartphone produced by Russian Smartecosystem cpmpany has a physical button that prevents digital wiretapping.




nokiamob.net


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> They do make some smartphones. But yeah, considering Russia only has 150 million people, talent pool is obviously much less than China which has 1.4 billion people. Most of their stuffs still have to imported from their Chinese masters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian AYYA T1 based on Aurora OS has physical button against wiretapping | Nokiamob
> 
> 
> Aurora OS based AYYA T1 smartphone produced by Russian Smartecosystem cpmpany has a physical button that prevents digital wiretapping.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nokiamob.net


This effort reminds me of Erdogan’s episode. He urges the Turks to dump iphone for domestic Turk phone. Great.
But how Putin wants to convince google to license android? Google says Neij since invasion. He wants to steal it?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> This effort reminds me of Erdogan’s episode. He urges the Turks to dump iphone for domestic Turk phone. Great.
> But how Putin wants to urge google to license android? Google says Neij since invasion. He wants to steal it?



Turkey obviously don't have the tech expertise Russia has. Moscow university is one of the best since the mid 1700s. Russia is traditionally a science and tech powerhouse. Sputnik vaccine is the first covid vaccine developed anywhere in the world. Cherenkov radiation holds the key to faster than light space travel.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561363447933198336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561351481214787586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561357305681174528


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## SalarHaqq

Censorship, psychological pressures, judicial prosecution of dissident journalists and even retribution against their elderly parents, an anti-Russian propaganda campaign of Heraclean proportions, and yet the people of Germany are far from unanimously embracing the line which the regime in Berlin is seeking to impose, with sympathetic views of Russia remaining widespread. The resistance displayed by Germans is impressive.

So much so that the Austrian newspaper Wiener Zeitung, a streamlined mainstream medium, dedicated an extensive paper to it. As hinted to earlier, the propaganda machinery of NATO is exhausted. It doesn't work anymore, is no longer convincing to people the world over. Hence the increased use of coercive and violent measures by NATO regimes to discipline their own populations, as their political legitimacy is vacillating more and more.


https://www.wienerzeitung.at/nachri...479-Die-seltsame-deutsche-Russland-Liebe.html

*The strange German love of Russia 

Despite the Ukraine war, support for the Kremlin is high. Why? An essayistic search for clues. *

from 07/30/2022, 2:30 p.m. | Update: 07/31/2022, 08:56 am






_A demonstration for Russia in front of the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin. - © dpa / Gerald Matzka _

Allegedly, February 24, the day the Russian army launched a frontal attack on Ukraine, changed everything. The EU, previously only rarely closed in relation to Russia, suddenly showed itself to be more united than ever. It imposed severe sanctions, took in war refugees and supplied weapons. Even Germany distanced itself from its state pacifism. Since then, the Ukrainian flag has been omnipresent, giving the impression that the West is standing shoulder to shoulder against Russian President Vladimir Putin's war policy.

A cursory glance at the internet reveals that this impression is deceptive. Governments may decide what they want, but the population is resentful. The comments section under articles about the war shows that Putin still has a sizeable following in this country after February 24. Rising inflation, the threat of gas bottlenecks and horrendous prices are reducing enthusiasm for Ukraine. It goes so far that many see Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, not Putin, as the warmonger, the man who is preventing peace. If the former actor Zelenskyj is not immediately described as a puppet - as a puppet in the hands of the real mastermind of the war, US President Joe Biden.

It's not necessarily Russians who talk or write like that. Many of my Russian acquaintances living in Vienna - here it is appropriate to speak openly about their own experiences - were shocked by the outbreak of war. The tendency to romanticize the kleptocratic, mafia-like Putin regime, to see in it - for example - a promising conservative counterpoint to a decadent Europe is often much less pronounced among them than among some Austrians or Germans.

But where does this peculiar inclination towards Putin and Russia come from, which is particularly strong in German-speaking countries? Certainly, on the far right, Putin has scored points for years with his opposition to ultra-liberal gender politics, and with the (old) left with anti-NATO rhetoric.

Nevertheless, the Russian president's approval is difficult to explain: The still living trauma from the Second World War - the expulsions, the rapes, the prisoners of war in the Gulag - do not exactly promote a close relationship with Russia. A long Cold War followed, which kept old fears of the danger from the East alive. The threat from the Soviet Union was always present. Of the two superpowers, the western one, the United States, was clearly the more popular: It offered freedom instead of communism and, with the Marshall Plan, laid the foundation for post-war prosperity. The USA also opened a window to the world and shaped the lifestyle of entire generations. Pop culture was and is English, and the cultural ties to the transatlantic superpower are very close. Moscow had and has very little to oppose the "American way of life".

*Fear and fascination *

Nevertheless, there has always been a sentimental inclination towards Russia, especially in Germany. The gigantic empire in the east was foreign and mysterious enough to fire the imagination and arouse an interest that was never seen in its near neighbor Poland, for example. Even his emphasis on Catholicism triggered resistance in Protestant Prussia.

Russia, on the other hand, was suitable as a projection surface for Prussian Germany - much like Germany was for Russia. The other person embodied what you missed in yourself: here the Kantian rational state of Prussia, well organized and efficient, a role model. There was the seething, indefinite, border-crossing, perhaps also revolutionary-intoxicating, also the introspection, the mystical "Russian soul", which in turn had something to give to the "German essence". A being, in turn, that was thought to be romantically backward-looking. According to a common slogan, the world should heal on him.

Which world? Presumably that bleak, rational, materialistic, meaningless, technoid world of the West, against whose precursors people in Germany rebelled as early as the Romantic period. Conversely, there was always the civilizational - sometimes racially tinged - conceit of superiority over Russia. The Eastern Europe historian Gerd Koenen, who has written a book about the German "Russia complex", speaks of a "mixture of fear and fascination, of empathetic understanding and phobic resistance", of "latent power fantasies and alliance options on the Berlin- Moscow", which could almost never be fully implemented, but still kept people busy.

In particular, a look at the interwar period shows that the relationship between Germany, which had been offended by the Versailles Treaty, and the newly formed, communist superpower in the East was by no means determined solely by resistance and fear of the "red tide" from Asia - as was known after Hitler's war of annihilation and the Cold War. Even within the nationalist German right - despite all rejection of "Bolshevism" - there were starting points for a cooperation with Russia.

*Penchant for radicalism *

This existed simply because both pariah states had a thirst for revenge against the West: the Treaty of Rapallo, which was concluded 100 years ago between Weimar Germany and the newly founded Soviet Union, had not only mutual recognition but also a strategic revisionist component. A secret military cooperation was agreed, which lasted until autumn 1933. They quickly got closer: During evening maneuver talks, Koenen recently wrote in a contribution, high-ranking officers of the Reichswehr and Red Army were, for example, of the same opinion "that Poland, as a bulwark of the Versailles powers in Eastern Europe, had to be wiped off the map, which would otherwise have to be cleared up on a large scale" - long before the Hitler-Stalin Pact. Even among the National Socialists there was a Russophile wing in the 1920s, which was impressed not only by the depth of the Russian soul but also by the brutal, unbourgeois radicalism of the Bolsheviks. The young Joseph Goebbels, who was initially repelled by Hitler's plans for the east, belonged to it.

Conversely, Moscow always relied on Berlin: Vladimir Ilyich Lenin still dreamed of the world revolution, for which he saw Germany as the decisive country - the Soviet revolutionary leader used the image of Germany and Russia as "two chicks under the shell of imperialism", which these were to break through together - Stalin was later concerned with bringing the old tsarist areas of the empire together with Germany back under Russian control. Which also succeeded in 1939.

*Fear of "Fourth Reich"*

The people who suffered from this policy were those peoples of "intermediate Europe" who had to secure their livelihood between Moscow and Berlin - such as Poland or the Baltic states. Any kind of German-Russian cronyism still reliably triggers fears of a revival of the Hitler-Stalin Pact, especially in the conservative-national Polish governing party PiS. Experts claim that Germany wants to build a "Fourth Reich" with the EU. Arguing against this is not always easy: Even after passionate debates, I probably haven't convinced my Polish mother-in-law of the harmlessness of today's Germany. Berlin will remain Berlin, and Russia will remain the "evil empire" anyway.

No wonder that the Stars & Stripes of the US flag shine brighter in Warsaw than in Germany. Being an appendage in a German-dominated Europe is anything but tempting, at least for the PiS - especially given the sharp ideological contrasts to the left-liberal dominated Union. One sees oneself more than ever as the standard-bearer of the West, the civilized world in what is believed to be the insecure East of Europe. There is little desire to question this civilization and its achievements, which is now very pronounced in the academic milieu in the West. After all, belonging to western civilization in the border area of Eastern Europe acts as a central anchor of one's own identity, which was repeatedly threatened by the neighbor to the East. Relations with western modernity and the supremacy USA are unencumbered and friendly.

Different in Moscow. There, the relationship to the West has been deeply divided since the reforms of Peter the Great: The West, rival and counterpart, acted as a role model, as the other, whose level people tried to reach - with enormous privations and sacrifices. The desire to be ahead on the axis of progress was rarely satisfied - for example in the Sputnik shock. Western modernity seemed ideal, but at the same time it remained something alien, unloved, grafted onto orthodox Russia from the outside. There was always resistance, defiance against it. Even today, Russia is building its identity in the tradition of the "Third Rome" as a conservative antithesis to the radical-liberal "Gayropa".

~

But there was also resistance to Western modernity in Germany, and not just in the Romantic period. Even before the First World War, there were whispers of the profound German soul and culture, which was superior to the flat, superficial, mercantile, sterile, materialistic Western civilization and could bring salvation to the world. After the war, youth movements like the Wandervogel preached a return to nature, anthroposophical circles arose, and the "noble savage" was sought as a natural counterpart to the corrupt civilization of money. From such longings it was not far to anti-Semitic conclusions. In fact, in the 1920s even a book as unsuspicious as it was brilliant like Egon Friedell's "Cultural History of the Modern Era" contained not only ideas that the bleak materialistic Western civilization could only be saved by Germany or Russia, but also anti-Jewish echoes. And this despite the fact that Friedell himself was certainly not an anti-Semite and was also of Jewish origin - and committed suicide in Vienna after the "Anschluss" in 1938.

*Skeptics of the modern world *

In this country, Jews were mostly perceived as standard-bearers of modernity. Characteristics such as agile, industrious and enterprising were attributed to them. Because they were considered to be better adapted to the supposedly hard, capitalist world of modernity, for centuries trade was one of the few sectors in which they were allowed to work. In the interwar period, all political camps were looking for alternatives to Western liberalism: from Spengler's "Prussian socialism" to the Marxist variant and the National Socialist community, a wide range of desires spanned. Citizens and workers felt threatened by competition and sought protection from possible isolation in Western liberalism in the community among equals.

Most of these alternative designs are now history. Nevertheless, the moving behind it has not completely seeped away in this country. For example, the resentment against the United States, which some people feel surprisingly quickly, could be a legacy of the anti-modern and anti-Western attitudes of the past. It is also noticeable that skepticism about science and modernity always finds a particularly good resonance in German-speaking countries - whether it is about opposition to nuclear and genetic engineering, biological agriculture, opposition to vaccination or alternative healing practices. The concern - in many cases probably not unjustified - that technological developments that have gotten out of hand will destroy the remaining untouched nature and make people unable to breathe is widespread. People are also more afraid of freedom here than overseas, fearing too much of a market economy.

*The German Janus Head *

Today's decidedly modern Germany has always been a Janus-faced country: long asleep and backward, a "late nation", the country stormed to the forefront of technical progress after unification by Prussia. At the same time, however, there was always a whole squad of critics of this development, and the technical criticism in particular reached a high level in Germany. The widespread search for a life close to nature also made some look to Russia, a country that has always seen itself as an alternative to the West. The fact that the Bolsheviks were a group in power there that wanted to drive western technological development to the extreme did not have to be a problem - the old Russia had to be slumbering somewhere, which, loosely based on Dostoyevsky, was supposed to speak the word of salvation to the world.

Despite all German western connections, the bridges to Russia have not been completely demolished even today - for example, there is a strong inclination towards Moscow within the New Right. Conversely, the controversial Russian Eurasia ideologue Alexander Dugin makes extensive use of Friedrich Nietzsche, Martin Heidegger and thinkers of the German "conservative revolution" of the 1920s. The glue that holds this coalition together today is the rejection of western modernity. However one evaluates this rejection, one thing should be clear: the humus for anti-modern attitudes is still deep in this country.

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## NotSure

dBSPL said:


> Frankly, I don't think it has anything to do with Kiev. An intelligence operation that would exceed Kiev's height. I understand it as the message of the USA.
> 
> But as a person, trying to understand Russian politik understandings and psychology, I'm almost certain that this will also make Russia's moves more aggressive, If it is not related to an intra-Russian showdown.
> 
> edit: Also, completely off-topic but what does Darya mean in Russian?


You are wrong. I think this is 100% SBU, sticking to this lowlife kind of terrorism. It seems they f ucked up to kill Dugin himself, because Daria was driving his car and he decided to use an another car in the last moment. He was driving in the car behind her and saw all in front of him.

And btw. Dugin is not Putins advisor and never was. And everybody in the western intelligence community knows this. But the Ukrops are going apeshit about Dugin and think he is some kind of grey eminence in the background or so, because he has some influence in Russia. And before that they have done several more or less useless attacks, but big in the propaganda pic. This terrorattack is exactly the same kind of ukrop thinking.

And regarding lowlife kind of terrorattacks: Look, who is defending it. Here in the forum, twitter etc. All the russophobe bots are fans of al-Qaida style terror. Not surprising at all.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

SalarHaqq said:


> Censorship, psychological pressures, judicial prosecution of dissident journalists and even retribution against their elderly parents, an anti-Russian propaganda campaign of Heraclean proportions, and yet the people of Germany are far from unanimously embracing the line which the regime in Berlin is seeking to impose, with sympathetic views of Russia remaining widespread. The resistance displayed by Germans is impressive.
> 
> So much so that the Austrian newspaper Wiener Zeitung, a streamlined mainstream medium, dedicated an extensive paper to it. As hinted to earlier, the propaganda machinery of NATO is exhausted. It doesn't work anymore, is no longer convincing to people the world over. Hence the increased use of coercive and violent measures by NATO regimes to discipline their own populations, as their political legitimacy is vacillating more and more.
> 
> 
> https://www.wienerzeitung.at/nachri...479-Die-seltsame-deutsche-Russland-Liebe.html
> 
> *The strange German love of Russia
> 
> Despite the Ukraine war, support for the Kremlin is high. Why? An essayistic search for clues. *
> 
> from 07/30/2022, 2:30 p.m. | Update: 07/31/2022, 08:56 am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A demonstration for Russia in front of the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin. - © dpa / Gerald Matzka _
> 
> Allegedly, February 24, the day the Russian army launched a frontal attack on Ukraine, changed everything. The EU, previously only rarely closed in relation to Russia, suddenly showed itself to be more united than ever. It imposed severe sanctions, took in war refugees and supplied weapons. Even Germany distanced itself from its state pacifism. Since then, the Ukrainian flag has been omnipresent, giving the impression that the West is standing shoulder to shoulder against Russian President Vladimir Putin's war policy.
> 
> A cursory glance at the internet reveals that this impression is deceptive. Governments may decide what they want, but the population is resentful. The comments section under articles about the war shows that Putin still has a sizeable following in this country after February 24. Rising inflation, the threat of gas bottlenecks and horrendous prices are reducing enthusiasm for Ukraine. It goes so far that many see Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, not Putin, as the warmonger, the man who is preventing peace. If the former actor Zelenskyj is not immediately described as a puppet - as a puppet in the hands of the real mastermind of the war, US President Joe Biden.
> 
> It's not necessarily Russians who talk or write like that. Many of my Russian acquaintances living in Vienna - here it is appropriate to speak openly about their own experiences - were shocked by the outbreak of war. The tendency to romanticize the kleptocratic, mafia-like Putin regime, to see in it - for example - a promising conservative counterpoint to a decadent Europe is often much less pronounced among them than among some Austrians or Germans.
> 
> But where does this peculiar inclination towards Putin and Russia come from, which is particularly strong in German-speaking countries? Certainly, on the far right, Putin has scored points for years with his opposition to ultra-liberal gender politics, and with the (old) left with anti-NATO rhetoric.
> 
> Nevertheless, the Russian president's approval is difficult to explain: The still living trauma from the Second World War - the expulsions, the rapes, the prisoners of war in the Gulag - do not exactly promote a close relationship with Russia. A long Cold War followed, which kept old fears of the danger from the East alive. The threat from the Soviet Union was always present. Of the two superpowers, the western one, the United States, was clearly the more popular: It offered freedom instead of communism and, with the Marshall Plan, laid the foundation for post-war prosperity. The USA also opened a window to the world and shaped the lifestyle of entire generations. Pop culture was and is English, and the cultural ties to the transatlantic superpower are very close. Moscow had and has very little to oppose the "American way of life".
> 
> *Fear and fascination *
> 
> Nevertheless, there has always been a sentimental inclination towards Russia, especially in Germany. The gigantic empire in the east was foreign and mysterious enough to fire the imagination and arouse an interest that was never seen in its near neighbor Poland, for example. Even his emphasis on Catholicism triggered resistance in Protestant Prussia.
> 
> Russia, on the other hand, was suitable as a projection surface for Prussian Germany - much like Germany was for Russia. The other person embodied what you missed in yourself: here the Kantian rational state of Prussia, well organized and efficient, a role model. There was the seething, indefinite, border-crossing, perhaps also revolutionary-intoxicating, also the introspection, the mystical "Russian soul", which in turn had something to give to the "German essence". A being, in turn, that was thought to be romantically backward-looking. According to a common slogan, the world should heal on him.
> 
> Which world? Presumably that bleak, rational, materialistic, meaningless, technoid world of the West, against whose precursors people in Germany rebelled as early as the Romantic period. Conversely, there was always the civilizational - sometimes racially tinged - conceit of superiority over Russia. The Eastern Europe historian Gerd Koenen, who has written a book about the German "Russia complex", speaks of a "mixture of fear and fascination, of empathetic understanding and phobic resistance", of "latent power fantasies and alliance options on the Berlin- Moscow", which could almost never be fully implemented, but still kept people busy.
> 
> In particular, a look at the interwar period shows that the relationship between Germany, which had been offended by the Versailles Treaty, and the newly formed, communist superpower in the East was by no means determined solely by resistance and fear of the "red tide" from Asia - as was known after Hitler's war of annihilation and the Cold War. Even within the nationalist German right - despite all rejection of "Bolshevism" - there were starting points for a cooperation with Russia.
> 
> *Penchant for radicalism *
> 
> This existed simply because both pariah states had a thirst for revenge against the West: the Treaty of Rapallo, which was concluded 100 years ago between Weimar Germany and the newly founded Soviet Union, had not only mutual recognition but also a strategic revisionist component. A secret military cooperation was agreed, which lasted until autumn 1933. They quickly got closer: During evening maneuver talks, Koenen recently wrote in a contribution, high-ranking officers of the Reichswehr and Red Army were, for example, of the same opinion "that Poland, as a bulwark of the Versailles powers in Eastern Europe, had to be wiped off the map, which would otherwise have to be cleared up on a large scale" - long before the Hitler-Stalin Pact. Even among the National Socialists there was a Russophile wing in the 1920s, which was impressed not only by the depth of the Russian soul but also by the brutal, unbourgeois radicalism of the Bolsheviks. The young Joseph Goebbels, who was initially repelled by Hitler's plans for the east, belonged to it.
> 
> Conversely, Moscow always relied on Berlin: Vladimir Ilyich Lenin still dreamed of the world revolution, for which he saw Germany as the decisive country - the Soviet revolutionary leader used the image of Germany and Russia as "two chicks under the shell of imperialism", which these were to break through together - Stalin was later concerned with bringing the old tsarist areas of the empire together with Germany back under Russian control. Which also succeeded in 1939.
> 
> *Fear of "Fourth Reich"*
> 
> The people who suffered from this policy were those peoples of "intermediate Europe" who had to secure their livelihood between Moscow and Berlin - such as Poland or the Baltic states. Any kind of German-Russian cronyism still reliably triggers fears of a revival of the Hitler-Stalin Pact, especially in the conservative-national Polish governing party PiS. Experts claim that Germany wants to build a "Fourth Reich" with the EU. Arguing against this is not always easy: Even after passionate debates, I probably haven't convinced my Polish mother-in-law of the harmlessness of today's Germany. Berlin will remain Berlin, and Russia will remain the "evil empire" anyway.
> 
> No wonder that the Stars & Stripes of the US flag shine brighter in Warsaw than in Germany. Being an appendage in a German-dominated Europe is anything but tempting, at least for the PiS - especially given the sharp ideological contrasts to the left-liberal dominated Union. One sees oneself more than ever as the standard-bearer of the West, the civilized world in what is believed to be the insecure East of Europe. There is little desire to question this civilization and its achievements, which is now very pronounced in the academic milieu in the West. After all, belonging to western civilization in the border area of Eastern Europe acts as a central anchor of one's own identity, which was repeatedly threatened by the neighbor to the East. Relations with western modernity and the supremacy USA are unencumbered and friendly.
> 
> Different in Moscow. There, the relationship to the West has been deeply divided since the reforms of Peter the Great: The West, rival and counterpart, acted as a role model, as the other, whose level people tried to reach - with enormous privations and sacrifices. The desire to be ahead on the axis of progress was rarely satisfied - for example in the Sputnik shock. Western modernity seemed ideal, but at the same time it remained something alien, unloved, grafted onto orthodox Russia from the outside. There was always resistance, defiance against it. Even today, Russia is building its identity in the tradition of the "Third Rome" as a conservative antithesis to the radical-liberal "Gayropa".
> 
> ~
> 
> But there was also resistance to Western modernity in Germany, and not just in the Romantic period. Even before the First World War, there were whispers of the profound German soul and culture, which was superior to the flat, superficial, mercantile, sterile, materialistic Western civilization and could bring salvation to the world. After the war, youth movements like the Wandervogel preached a return to nature, anthroposophical circles arose, and the "noble savage" was sought as a natural counterpart to the corrupt civilization of money. From such longings it was not far to anti-Semitic conclusions. In fact, in the 1920s even a book as unsuspicious as it was brilliant like Egon Friedell's "Cultural History of the Modern Era" contained not only ideas that the bleak materialistic Western civilization could only be saved by Germany or Russia, but also anti-Jewish echoes. And this despite the fact that Friedell himself was certainly not an anti-Semite and was also of Jewish origin - and committed suicide in Vienna after the "Anschluss" in 1938.
> 
> *Skeptics of the modern world *
> 
> In this country, Jews were mostly perceived as standard-bearers of modernity. Characteristics such as agile, industrious and enterprising were attributed to them. Because they were considered to be better adapted to the supposedly hard, capitalist world of modernity, for centuries trade was one of the few sectors in which they were allowed to work. In the interwar period, all political camps were looking for alternatives to Western liberalism: from Spengler's "Prussian socialism" to the Marxist variant and the National Socialist community, a wide range of desires spanned. Citizens and workers felt threatened by competition and sought protection from possible isolation in Western liberalism in the community among equals.
> 
> Most of these alternative designs are now history. Nevertheless, the moving behind it has not completely seeped away in this country. For example, the resentment against the United States, which some people feel surprisingly quickly, could be a legacy of the anti-modern and anti-Western attitudes of the past. It is also noticeable that skepticism about science and modernity always finds a particularly good resonance in German-speaking countries - whether it is about opposition to nuclear and genetic engineering, biological agriculture, opposition to vaccination or alternative healing practices. The concern - in many cases probably not unjustified - that technological developments that have gotten out of hand will destroy the remaining untouched nature and make people unable to breathe is widespread. People are also more afraid of freedom here than overseas, fearing too much of a market economy.
> 
> *The German Janus Head *
> 
> Today's decidedly modern Germany has always been a Janus-faced country: long asleep and backward, a "late nation", the country stormed to the forefront of technical progress after unification by Prussia. At the same time, however, there was always a whole squad of critics of this development, and the technical criticism in particular reached a high level in Germany. The widespread search for a life close to nature also made some look to Russia, a country that has always seen itself as an alternative to the West. The fact that the Bolsheviks were a group in power there that wanted to drive western technological development to the extreme did not have to be a problem - the old Russia had to be slumbering somewhere, which, loosely based on Dostoyevsky, was supposed to speak the word of salvation to the world.
> 
> Despite all German western connections, the bridges to Russia have not been completely demolished even today - for example, there is a strong inclination towards Moscow within the New Right. Conversely, the controversial Russian Eurasia ideologue Alexander Dugin makes extensive use of Friedrich Nietzsche, Martin Heidegger and thinkers of the German "conservative revolution" of the 1920s. The glue that holds this coalition together today is the rejection of western modernity. However one evaluates this rejection, one thing should be clear: the humus for anti-modern attitudes is still deep in this country.



Germany, like Russia, is a pseudo democracy. The people do not vote directly in Germany. Only deputies vote. This is the case in China. Also, Germany is former Hunnic empire. They have Asian tradition of authoritarianism and dictatorship. In terms of culture Germany is far closer to Russia than to France which is a true democracy.

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## SalarHaqq

NotSure said:


> Kiev/Nato assassinated Dugin's daughter Daria in Moscow with a car bomb.



Yup, taking it out against the relatives of political opponents - civilians at that, is usual behaviour for NATO regimes and their vassals.

No wonder, thus, that supporters of these regimes will be seen drooling and celebrating such acts (including when they take the form of a terrorist assassination), even insulting the victims.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561383445405761536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561383799707033600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561385518486765568


----------



## jamal18

Good sensible discussion on the war. If you have time.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561392179687444488


----------



## The SC

Washington -

The Ukrainian Defense Forces will be armed with American BGM-71 TOW anti-tank missile systems, and these weapons will help the Ukrainians destroy Russian armored vehicles.








NotSure said:


> You are wrong. I think this is 100% SBU, sticking to this lowlife kind of terrorism. It seems they f ucked up to kill Dugin himself, because Daria was driving his car and he decided to use an another car in the last moment. He was driving in the car behind her and saw all in front of him.
> 
> And btw. Dugin is not Putins advisor and never was. And everybody in the western intelligence community knows this. But the Ukrops are going apeshit about Dugin and think he is some kind of grey eminence in the background or so, because he has some influence in Russia. And before that they have done several more or less useless attacks, but big in the propaganda pic. This terrorattack is exactly the same kind of ukrop thinking.
> 
> And regarding lowlife kind of terrorattacks: Look, who is defending it. Here in the forum, twitter etc. All the russophobe bots are fans of al-Qaida style terror. Not surprising at all.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561237184627331072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561396056277274624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561393498196045824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561370085763293185


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> Washington -
> 
> The Ukrainian Defense Forces will be armed with American BGM-71 TOW anti-tank missile systems, and these weapons will help the Ukrainians destroy Russian armored vehicles.
> 
> View attachment 872390



TOW is a major step down from Javelin. If they are getting 1980s TOW the way Syrian rebels did it's not much use. The tripod launcher is way too heavy to be man portable. Not to mention it has bad accuracy being wire guided. In Syria TOW performed badly even against obsolete 1970s T-72. At best TOW can be compared to Konkurs but is vastly inferior to Kornet which has much better accuracy being laser guided. It does appear Americans are running low on Javelin stock.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561046427710767104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561070426951933961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561088624225140744


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561363447933198336


----------



## sammuel

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Germany, like Russia, is a pseudo democracy.



Sure , the same :

Putin critic Alexei Navalny sentenced to 9 years in prison by Russian court​









Putin critic Alexei Navalny sentenced to 9 years in prison by Russian court


Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was convicted of fraud and contempt of court and sentenced to nine years in a maximum security prison on Tuesday.




www.cnbc.com





~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561405384283541505


sammuel said:


> Sure , the same :
> 
> Putin critic Alexei Navalny sentenced to 9 years in prison by Russian court​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin critic Alexei Navalny sentenced to 9 years in prison by Russian court
> 
> 
> Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was convicted of fraud and contempt of court and sentenced to nine years in a maximum security prison on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



In the US that is called domestic terrorist and arrested by FBI.


----------



## sammuel

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> In the US that is called domestic terrorist and arrested by FBI.



Sure , the same :






~

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## Vergennes

A real massacre


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561418029929480192


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> Sure , the same :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



The US does the same with protestors.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

daily briefing

Russia naval HQ at Crimea hit by a 10k USD chinese drone, modified as Kamikaze, 5h flight undetected over 300km distance. a complete failure of Russia air defense.

Russia counter battery hit by a suspected German Haubitze 2000, 6 shells in a single salvo within 30 seconds on the same target


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> daily briefing
> 
> Russia naval HQ at Crimea hit by 10k USD chinese drone, modified as Kamikaze, a complete failure of Russia air defense.
> 
> Russia counter battery hit by a suspected German Haubitze 2000, 6 shells within 30 seconds on the same target



DJI M30 is small enough and made of plastic no air defense radar can detect it. Perfect for attack on ammo storage if it can be rigged with a remotely detonated bomb. Drones have come a long way.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561417840149909505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561417863260405762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561403673452105728


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561419246323830787


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561417840149909505



British been bragging about fighting another Crimean war for ages but so far they haven't lived up to the courage of their ancestors.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561408894630518788

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561413539671179265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561320337857544193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560944123028426752


----------



## zectech

Europe’s rivers run dry as scientists warn drought could be worst in 500 years


Crops, power plants, barge traffic, industry and fish populations devastated by parched waterways




www.theguardian.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560396689789296644
Gales of stupid laughter 5, 4, 3, 2...


----------



## The SC

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561419246323830787
> 
> 
> British been bragging about fighting another Crimean war for ages but so far they haven't lived up to the courage of their ancestors.


It is difficult to predict the next movement of the Russians, yesterday the offensive in North Sumy and now the offensive momentum in Kherson plus the offensive axis in Donetsk, exactly in Bakhmut..

Worst yet there is nothing known about the movements of the Southern reinforcements, nor that of the Chechens.. where did they go?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> It is difficult to predict the next movement of the Russians, yesterday the offensive in North Sumy and now the offensive momentum in Kherson plus the offensive axis in Donetsk, exactly in Bakhmut..
> 
> Worst yet there is nothing known about the movements of the Southern reinforcements, nor that of the Chechens.. where did they go?



I guess waiting for winter. Russians love fighting in winter.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561415881737093121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561404808241766400

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> DJI M30 is small enough and made of plastic no air defense radar can detect it. Perfect for attack on ammo storage if it can be rigged with a remotely detonated bomb. Drones have come a long way.


A plastic drone ramming from above undetected I would say A big slap in Putin face.
No such small drones don’t do much harms. More interesting when the Turkish drone factory in Ukraine runs at full speed. It will churn out big drones. Ukraine can do it it is like Russia a industrial country. This war has just started.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> A plastic drone ramming from above undetected I would say A big slap in Putin face.



How so? Anyone can just about assassinate anyone with such a drone. It's practically unstoppable unless you have drone fence.


----------



## The SC




----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> How so? Anyone can just about assassinate anyone with such a drone. It's practically unstoppable unless you have drone fence.


A drone is a flying object it is like a bird and as such you can detect it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> A drone is a flying object it is like a bird and as such you can detect it.



No you can't. It has thermal. It flies at night. Unless you have really good NVG or thermal, you cannot see it coming at you at night. You be dead before you know it. It is very dangerous if operated by an assassin.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561427320472121346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561431708699967488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561433660238200836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561432579223523330

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561424312766185472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561397893466300416


----------



## aziqbal

Pisky is taken 

Soldeer is 50% taken they have moved forward from the plant and moving on the salt mine 

Bakhmut is also 50% taken Russian in the city centre 

Russians have reached Seversk 

this defensive line will break in the next week


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

They banned Andrew Tate from social media after he made this comment 👇 Looks like empire shills don't want anyone to shed light on the bogus information that they're feeding to the masses and their constant provocations against Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561200431690174471

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561363447933198336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561329434409459714

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561309976332746756

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561308379838136321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561291392424501248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561287787600646146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561283030815313920

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561415881737093121

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> A real massacre
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561418029929480192




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561415881737093121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561394779753046022

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561452182632800258


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561409423582584832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561398692371906560

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561396289191182336


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561363447933198336


What was there that they wanted to roast so badly ?


----------



## zartosht

So NATO regimes are ok with open terror attacks against families of countries whos politicians they disagree with?

This even lower then i ever thought the NATO regimes would sink to. This just reeks of absolute desperation from a frustrated bunch watching their empire collapse and crumble before their eyes. 

So if barack obamas daughters were killed by one of the tens of millions of american victims of wars of aggression, same terrorist supporting clowns would be supporting it the same way saying "bitch had it coming?"

This is shocking. Going after politicians is pretty low, but going after their family? Thats stuff even bin laden types would hesitate to do. 

The dying west has gone absolutely full savage/retard. And the world will become a much more dangerous place when inevitable retaliations start happening.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

zartosht said:


> So NATO regimes are ok with open terror attacks against families of countries whos politicians they disagree with?
> 
> This even lower then i ever thought the NATO regimes would sink to. This just reeks of absolute desperation from a frustrated bunch watching their empire collapse and crumble before their eyes.
> 
> So if barack obamas daughters were killed by one of the tens of millions of american victims of wars of aggression, same terrorist supporting clowns would be supporting it the same way saying "bitch had it coming?"
> 
> This is shocking. Going after politicians is pretty low, but going after their family? Thats stuff even bin laden types would hesitate to do.
> 
> The dying west has gone absolutely full savage/retard. And the world will become a much more dangerous place when inevitable retaliations start happening.


LOL! You assumed they want to kill a bunch of propagandists like this guy? Sorry no but this reeks of something internal and her father was the supposed target but switch vehicles at the last moment. 








Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I guess waiting for winter. Russians love fighting in winter.


LOL! So do the Ukrainians.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561479628618928128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561457487341133824


Iron Shrappenel said:


> What was there that they wanted to roast so badly ?



Probably soldiers in trenches. Soldiers in trenches are darn hard to kill with conventional artillery whose rounds mostly don't fall into trenches. But fire burns all.



Oldman1 said:


> LOL! So do the Ukrainians.



Get out of here. Russian winter is far harsher than Ukrainian winter. It's not even close. Ukrainian winter is way milder than Toronto winter. Ukrainian soldiers in trenches freeze in winter.


----------



## K_Bin_W

zartosht said:


> So NATO regimes are ok with open terror attacks against families of countries whos politicians they disagree with?
> 
> This even lower then i ever thought the NATO regimes would sink to. This just reeks of absolute desperation from a frustrated bunch watching their empire collapse and crumble before their eyes.
> 
> So if barack obamas daughters were killed by one of the tens of millions of american victims of wars of aggression, same terrorist supporting clowns would be supporting it the same way saying "bitch had it coming?"
> 
> This is shocking. Going after politicians is pretty low, but going after their family? Thats stuff even bin laden types would hesitate to do.
> 
> The dying west has gone absolutely full savage/retard. And the world will become a much more dangerous place when inevitable retaliations start happening.


NATO stands for North Atlantic *Terrorist* Organization.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> So NATO regimes are ok with open terror attacks against families of countries whos politicians they disagree with?
> 
> This even lower then i ever thought the NATO regimes would sink to. This just reeks of absolute desperation from a frustrated bunch watching their empire collapse and crumble before their eyes.
> 
> So if barack obamas daughters were killed by one of the tens of millions of american victims of wars of aggression, same terrorist supporting clowns would be supporting it the same way saying "bitch had it coming?"
> 
> This is shocking. Going after politicians is pretty low, but going after their family? Thats stuff even bin laden types would hesitate to do.
> 
> The dying west has gone absolutely full savage/retard. And the world will become a much more dangerous place when inevitable retaliations start happening.


Nobody condoned anything, get a grip.
Your propaganda is mind numbing



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561479628618928128
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561457487341133824
> 
> 
> Probably soldiers in trenches. Soldiers in trenches are darn hard to kill with conventional artillery whose rounds mostly don't fall into trenches. But fire burns all.
> 
> 
> 
> Get out of here. Russian winter is far harsher than Ukrainian winter. It's not even close. Ukrainian winter is way milder than Toronto winter. Ukrainian soldiers in trenches freeze in winter.


Are you back to claiming the Russians look forward to fighting in the winter? Nobody does, mere bs propaganda.
Oh and if your dog 💩 was true the Nordic boys would wipe their *** with your mighty Russians.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561461020924821505


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

People are fleeing from Kiev from the expected Russian attacks on "decision-making centers" in the city. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561514053046075395


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Oh and if your dog 💩 was true the Nordic boys would wipe their *** with your mighty Russians.



Russians are mostly Nordic. In fact, modern Russians largely descend from German immigrants who were brought there by Catherine the Great who along with her husband were from Germany themselves.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561491495299043330

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561293281014812675

Game over for the so call himars game changer 👇 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561376510220591105

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Game over for the so call himars game changer 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561376510220591105



Not surprising. HIMARS has much shorter range than Iskander and Tornado-S which can hit HIMARS from distances beyond the firing range of HIMARS.

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## sammuel

NotSure said:


> You are wrong. I think this is 100% SBU, sticking to this lowlife kind of terrorism. It seems they f ucked up to kill Dugin himself, because Daria was driving his car and he decided to use an another car in the last moment. He was driving in the car behind her and saw all in front of him.
> 
> And btw. Dugin is not Putins advisor and never was. And everybody in the western intelligence community knows this. But the Ukrops are going apeshit about Dugin and think he is some kind of grey eminence in the background or so, because he has some influence in Russia. And before that they have done several more or less useless attacks, but big in the propaganda pic. This terrorattack is exactly the same kind of ukrop thinking.
> 
> And regarding lowlife kind of terrorattacks: Look, who is defending it. Here in the forum, twitter etc. All the russophobe bots are fans of al-Qaida style terror. Not surprising at all.



No evidence who is behind this. Maybe Russian opposition ? You know, those who are not allowed to voice their opinion in Russia .

I take it you condem this too :




7.1Poisoning of Ivan Kivelidi and Zara Ismailova


7.2Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal


7.3Poisoning of Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess


7.4Poisoning of Emilian Gebrev


7.5Poisoning of Alexei Navalny









Novichok - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org











Novichok found on water bottle in hotel room, - Navalny's .


~

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## Viet

Putin’s friends enrich themselves now the winter is coming. They are seen as thieves. A US task force is seizing their yachts, aircraft, money.







Die Oligarchenjacht "Tango" wurde im Hafen von Barcelona gemeinsam von US-Bundesbeamten und der spanischen Guardia Civil durchsucht. Bild: dpa









USA und russische Oligarchen: "Wir kriegen Eure Jacht und Euren Jet"


Russische Oligarchen haben ihre Reichtümer auf der ganzen Welt geparkt und geankert. Eine neue Spezialeinheit in New York nimmt nun genau diese ins Visier - und liefert die juristische Vorarbeit zur Beschlagnahmung. Von A. Passenheim.




www.tagesschau.de

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## Viet

sammuel said:


> No evidence who is behind this. Maybe Russian opposition ? You know, those who are not allowed to voice their opinion in Russia .
> 
> I take it you condem this too :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.1Poisoning of Ivan Kivelidi and Zara Ismailova
> 
> 
> 7.2Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal
> 
> 
> 7.3Poisoning of Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess
> 
> 
> 7.4Poisoning of Emilian Gebrev
> 
> 
> 7.5Poisoning of Alexei Navalny
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novichok - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novichok found on water bottle in hotel room, - Navalny's .
> 
> 
> ~


Putin was asked why his opponents are dead, in prison or poisoned.

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## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Not surprising. HIMARS has much shorter range than Iskander and Tornado-S which can hit HIMARS from distances beyond the firing range of HIMARS.


Yet we only see blown up buildings as “proof of destroyed Himars”…..

With USA sending only new ammunition….funny if there are no more Himars to use….

I also see almost daily new targets being hit online….

So lets take what the russians claim with a grain of salt…

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## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> Pisky is taken
> 
> Soldeer is 50% taken they have moved forward from the plant and moving on the salt mine
> 
> Bakhmut is also 50% taken Russian in the city centre
> 
> Russians have reached Seversk
> 
> this defensive line will break in the next week


Pisky is *NOT* taken. 

This article (with picture) taken 10 hours ago



https://ukranews.com/en/news/877308-invaders-slightly-advance-on-pisky-which-they-took-2-months-ago-afu-general-staff



Anyway, most of the other "advance" did not happened. Russia stopped at Bakhmut suburb and there are no Russian in Siversk.....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

zartosht said:


> So NATO regimes are ok with open terror attacks against families of countries whos politicians they disagree with?
> 
> This even lower then i ever thought the NATO regimes would sink to. This just reeks of absolute desperation from a frustrated bunch watching their empire collapse and crumble before their eyes.
> 
> So if barack obamas daughters were killed by one of the tens of millions of american victims of wars of aggression, same terrorist supporting clowns would be supporting it the same way saying "bitch had it coming?"
> 
> This is shocking. Going after politicians is pretty low, but going after their family? Thats stuff even bin laden types would hesitate to do.
> 
> The dying west has gone absolutely full savage/retard. And the world will become a much more dangerous place when inevitable retaliations start happening.


You have to be stupid to waste a chance of assassination to someone non-essential like Dugin.

Once you did this, you know it will be ages before you can do it again (That is If you can ever do it again), because they WILL certainly beef up security, which mean this is the one shot, a deep strike, any intelligence operative knows that, and you want to go after the person who offer "moral" support or "insight" to Putin?

That dude has no strategic importance to this war. You don't need him to fan the fare to Putin ear. If NATO or US is behind this. they would have chosen someone with pull in this war, like head of FSB, or anyone in the Military Command, anyone have to do with C2 or Russian decision-making process.

You are talking about a deep strike inside Russia (In Moscow no less) and if you go that far pull this off, you can literally kill anyone (Probably not Putin) and you are saying NATO is dumb enough to pull this and kill a non-Factor??

Dude, don't make me laugh.....

This have either Russian partisan or Ukrainian Partisan written all over, this is more SENTIMENTAL than actual use of this war. US or NATO do not do sentimental value. If you want to know how this is done, look at how Russia giving out Russian passport like candy in occupied Ukraine? This is dumb move and only asking for trouble.

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## Broccoli

Latest rumor is that Darya Dugin stole money what was meant for supporting Marine Le Pen in next elections.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561507117806546944


----------



## ZeGerman

__





Ukraine has telegraphed its big counteroffensive for months. So where is it? - POLITICO






www.politico.com





I did hope Ukraine was able to amass a larger force with its mobilization but instead it seems to be continued artillery barrages and trenches for both sides for a longer period of time. 


In meantime, russia closed off gas supply to germany via nordstream 1 completely, and with a 15% jump in price still earns (much) more then last year….timing wise, invading post-corona (wich caused huge energy shortages already) definately plays in Putins hands. Short term atleast.


----------



## 1ndy

launched two missiles almost simultaneously, both look like traveling towards different targets in different directions. 
HARM???


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> People are fleeing from Kiev from the expected Russian attacks on "decision-making centers" in the city.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561514053046075395


Wow 4 seconds of mass exodus 🙄



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians are mostly Nordic. In fact, modern Russians largely descend from German immigrants who were brought there by Catherine the Great who along with her husband were from Germany themselves.


Great, let’s go back to your argument about how Russians love fighting in winter?
See all you can do is go from one distraction to the next, you’d fit right in at a newsroom in America.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561668547696365570

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## Broccoli

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561668547696365570



What air defence doing?

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## RoadAmerica

ZeGerman said:


> Yet we only see blown up buildings as “proof of destroyed Himars”…..
> 
> With USA sending only new ammunition….funny if there are no more Himars to use….
> 
> I also see almost daily new targets being hit online….
> 
> So lets take what the russians claim with a grain of salt…


How about with a dump truck of salt

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## Vergennes

Broccoli said:


> What air defence doing?



"All missiles were intercepted of course". "Good,with which system" ? "They were intercepted by the bridge actually".

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## Broccoli

Vergennes said:


> "All missiles were intercepted of course". "Good,with which system" ? "They were intercepted by the bridge actually".



Imagine being Erdogan who chose to get booted from F-35 program in order to get S-400 what is almost completely useless.

Imagine being a Chinese commander who knows that S-400 is best SAM system you got to defend against US airpower.

Or Indians who bought S-400 for 5,5 billion dollars as an defence against Chinese who have been training against S-400 for years at this point... lol.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561632549633392640


----------



## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine has telegraphed its big counteroffensive for months. So where is it? - POLITICO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did hope Ukraine was able to amass a larger force with its mobilization but instead it seems to be continued artillery barrages and trenches for both sides for a longer period of time.
> 
> 
> In meantime, russia closed off gas supply to germany via nordstream 1 completely, and with a 15% jump in price still earns (much) more then last year….timing wise, invading post-corona (wich caused huge energy shortages already) definately plays in Putins hands. Short term atleast.


This artillery duel will continue for months if not years. Ukraine lacks tanks for offensive. Putin invasion army lacks both tanks and men. Ukraine wants to kill Russians as much as possible, same for Russia. Few years from now both Russia and Ukraine will only see straw running ducks, no humans.
As for gas supply to Germany, yes Gazprom has stopped the supply. Much expected. More blackmail from Moscow.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine has telegraphed its big counteroffensive for months. So where is it? - POLITICO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did hope Ukraine was able to amass a larger force with its mobilization but instead it seems to be continued artillery barrages and trenches for both sides for a longer period of time.
> 
> 
> In meantime, russia closed off gas supply to germany via nordstream 1 completely, and with a 15% jump in price still earns (much) more then last year….timing wise, invading post-corona (wich caused huge energy shortages already) definately plays in Putins hands. Short term atleast.



With huge population loss in Ukraine, more than 10 million people fled Ukraine since February, now Ukraine population is less than 30 million. I doubt Ukraine can mobilize 1 million men considering in Ukraine the population is female heavy due to male losses in WW2 which changed demographics.



Viet said:


> This artillery duel will continue for months if not years. Ukraine lacks tanks for offensive. Putin invasion army lacks both tanks and men. Ukraine wants to kill Russians as much as possible, same for Russia. Few years from now both Russia and Ukraine will only straw running ducks, no humans.



Welcome to the first permanent war in human history. Permanent. Just like CO2 increase is permanent. Permanent. Just like covid-19 is permanent.

In order for a war to end, there must be negotiation for peace. Neither Ukraine or Russia will ever negotiate. Without negotiation, war cannot end.


----------



## NotSure

sammuel said:


> No evidence who is behind this. Maybe Russian opposition ? You know, those who are not allowed to voice their opinion in Russia .
> 
> I take it you condem this too :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.1Poisoning of Ivan Kivelidi and Zara Ismailova
> 
> 
> 7.2Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal
> 
> 
> 7.3Poisoning of Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess
> 
> 
> 7.4Poisoning of Emilian Gebrev
> 
> 
> 7.5Poisoning of Alexei Navalny
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novichok - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novichok found on water bottle in hotel room, - Navalny's .
> 
> 
> ~


Moishe Shekelberg is parroting nato propaganda. How impressive!

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> With huge population loss in Ukraine, more than 10 million people fled Ukraine since February, now Ukraine population is less than 30 million. I doubt Ukraine can mobilize 1 million men considering in Ukraine the population is female heavy due to male losses in WW2 which changed demographics.
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome to the first permanent war in human history. Permanent. Just like CO2 increase is permanent. Permanent. Just like covid-19 is permanent.
> 
> In order for a war to end, there must be negotiation for peace. Neither Ukraine or Russia will ever negotiate. Without negotiation, war cannot end.


Ukraine rules out negotiation. They say as long as Russians occupy their territory then worthless to talk. Let’s see. Ukraine can mobilize 2 million men and women the army will fight until the bitter end.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561596012086661121


Viet said:


> Ukraine rules out negotiation. They say as long as Russians occupy their territory then everything will be decided on battlefields. The Ukraine army will fight until the bitter end.



No negotiation. That's why I said this is the first permanent war in human history. In the past, people negotiated and wars ended.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561596012086661121
> 
> 
> No negotiation. That's why I said this is the first permanent war in human history. In the past, people negotiated and wars ended.


No that’s not always the case. Lots of wars were decided on battlefields. The only way out is Putin withdraws the troops behind the line of Feb 24, then both sides start direct negotiation on the status of Crimea and Donbas, the status of Ukraine neutrality, with the military backing by NATO.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> No that’s not always the case. Lots of wars were decided on battlefields. The only way out is Putin withdraws the troops behind the line of Feb 24, then both sides start direct negotiation on the status of Crimea and Donbas, the status of Ukraine neutrality, with the military backing by NATO.



Putin or any other Russian president will never accept such terms. The war will continue until Ukraine's population falls below 10 million and loses combat effectiveness due to lack of man power.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561689003409162243

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561691418195890176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561691283961352192


----------



## sammuel

NotSure said:


> Moishe Shekelberg is parroting nato propaganda. How impressive!



Sure Propaganda.

Eliminating political rivals by Putin is a fact.

How do you explain this > also propaganda ? :

Putin critic Alexei Navalny sentenced to 9 years in prison by Russian court​















Putin critic Alexei Navalny sentenced to 9 years in prison by Russian court


Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was convicted of fraud and contempt of court and sentenced to nine years in a maximum security prison on Tuesday.




www.cnbc.com





~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> Sure Propaganda.
> 
> Eliminating political rivals by Putin is a fact.
> 
> How do you explain this > also propaganda ? :
> 
> Putin critic Alexei Navalny sentenced to 9 years in prison by Russian court​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin critic Alexei Navalny sentenced to 9 years in prison by Russian court
> 
> 
> Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was convicted of fraud and contempt of court and sentenced to nine years in a maximum security prison on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Lucky for him. In the US he get life time jail like Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning got.


----------



## Lehrasap

Putin has accomplished many goals! Expanding NATO, increasing NATO arms expenditure, reducing European reliance on Russian gas and oil, etc. Well done Putin!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Lehrasap said:


> Putin has accomplished many goals! Expanding NATO, increasing NATO arms expenditure, reducing European reliance on Russian gas and oil, etc. Well done Putin!



In a few years Russian gas supply to EU will fall to close to 0. Chinese need the gas for heating and industry. Why should Russians supply gas to people who arm Ukrainians to slaughter Russians? It makes no sense.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561637727719809026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561706431002329088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561701788578881536


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561507117806546944





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561458934308806656


NotSure said:


> Moishe Shekelberg is parroting nato propaganda. How impressive!



He is a Pajeet claiming to be an Israeli. He Israeli and Jewish claims are fake.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561713296775970816


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Putin or any other Russian president will never accept such terms. The war will continue until Ukraine's population falls below 10 million and loses combat effectiveness due to lack of man power.


As long as Putin is in power that’s extremely unlikely. That’s the problem if you deal with fanatics.
Putin is a fanatic. He will rather nuke Ukraine, NATO then accept a defeat. Russia won’t be better off. This war costs him billion USD per day, hundred thousands of troops per year.
He will stay in power until 2036 after he changed the laws to fit it. So this war will continue for another 14 years. By then Russia economy would be on the same level of Syria.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> As long as Putin is in power that’s extremely unlikely. That’s the problem if you deal with fanatics.
> Putin is a fanatic. He will rather nuke Ukraine, NATO then accept a defeat. Russia won’t be better off. This war costs him billion USD per day, hundred thousands of troops per year.
> He will stay in power until 2036 after he changed the laws to fit it. So this war will continue for another 14 years. By then Russia economy would be on the same level of Syria.



Get real man. Putin is a walk in the park compared to the next Russian president. Just like Yeltsin is a walk in the park compared to Putin.


----------



## RektAtKasserinePass

Taking Blahodatne, despite not being a significant target in itself, is a big blow for Ukraine. We've been hearing for months how a major counter offensive was going to take place to retake Kherson by September.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561694516071043077

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561722636262146055

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561721095593627653


RektAtKasserinePass said:


> Taking Blahodatne, despite not being a significant target in itself, is a big blow for Ukraine. We've been hearing for months how a major counter offensive was going to take place to retake Kherson by September.



Ukraine cannot take Kherson anymore than Syria can take Idlib or Raqqa.


----------



## Vergennes

kaboom


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561689103300759554


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> kaboom
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561689103300759554



These can probably take off and land on regular highways, making them difficult to locate with satellites and drones.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Get real man. Putin is a walk in the park compared to the next Russian president. Just like Yeltsin is a walk in the park compared to Putin.


There won’t be no president after Putin. There is no successor. Zero. Russia is not USSR where the politburo chooses a new leader. If Putin dies then Russia will fall into chaos, darkness.
I bet on Dmitry Peskow. He is a notorious liar, the hardliner in the Kremlin, He is the crown prince.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> There won’t be no president after Putin. There is no successor. Zero. Russia is not USSR where the politburo chooses a new leader. If Putin dies then Russia will fall into chaos, darkness.



Russia is far more stable than USSR. USSR was not a country. USSR was a confederation of 14 republics. Russia is a country, not a confederation.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia is far more stable than USSR. USSR was not a country. USSR was a confederation of 14 republics. Russia is a country, not a confederation.


Stable but no control of power
Putin has nothing to fear.
He is the king.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561732911879131138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561695959121272832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561738158798245888


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561695329950507011

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561674271948251137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561696371954032642


----------



## Vergennes




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 872634



He is not a politician. Just a demented civilian.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Boom goes Ukrainian drone.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561750957666582533


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561721437441982467

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561719754435575814


----------



## Primus

People that make memes of this conflict need to be hit in the head with a cricket ball

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561758427315060738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561688384854179840


----------



## The SC




----------



## The SC




----------



## aziqbal

jhungary said:


> Pisky is *NOT* taken.
> 
> This article (with picture) taken 10 hours ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ukranews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, most of the other "advance" did not happened. Russia stopped at Bakhmut suburb and there are no Russian in Siversk.....



50% Soleder is taken 

Bakhmut East is taken and they have advanced into the city centre 

Seversk has lost 2 suburbs 

basically when this defensive line falls the Russian juggernaut will steam forward at full pace through the open country and no other defensive line is in the way

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## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> 50% Soleder is taken
> 
> Bakhmut East is taken and they have advanced into the city centre
> 
> Seversk has lost 2 suburbs
> 
> basically when this defensive line falls the Russian juggernaut will steam forward at full pace through the open country and no other defensive line is in the way


Well, first of all, this is a very big "Scale Back" from what you claim. So is this to be believed? Or is the previous claim to be believed?

Second of all, Russia has been trying to get to both Bakhmut and Sieversk since July. And now it is the end of August. And both city is not anywhere near the size of Sieverdonetsk or Lysychansk. And both were taken within 2 months. Now it's nearly there and Russia still not been fully able to take it. I would say this "Juggernaut" is probably bobbling instead of steaming forward. Considering the Russian took Vuhlehirska Power Plant south of Bakhmut back in late July (about July 25 IIRC) and Butivka coal mine near southwest of Avdiivka on July 30, it's been almost a month and there aren't any significant progress, this offensive is more likely as good as dead.

Thirdly. There are other defensive line after Sieversk and Bakhmut. You still need to go pass M03 highway after Sieversk to have a go at Kramatosk or Slovansk, and after Bakhmut, you will still need to take Avdiivka to continue south to the rest of Donetsk......

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## aziqbal

jhungary said:


> Well, first of all, this is a very big "Scale Back" from what you claim. So is this to be believed? Or is the previous claim to be believed?
> 
> Second of all, Russia has been trying to get to both Bakhmut and Sieversk since July. And now it is the end of August. And both city is not anywhere near the size of Sieverdonetsk or Lysychansk. And both were taken within 2 months. Now it's nearly there and Russia still not been fully able to take it. I would say this "Juggernaut" is probably bobbling instead of steaming forward. Considering the Russian took Vuhlehirska Power Plant south of Bakhmut back in late July (about July 25 IIRC) and Butivka coal mine near southwest of Avdiivka on July 30, it's been almost a month and there aren't any significant progress, this offensive is more likely as good as dead.
> 
> Thirdly. There are other defensive line after Sieversk and Bakhmut. You still need to go pass M03 highway after Sieversk to have a go at Kramatosk or Slovansk, and after Bakhmut, you will still need to take Avdiivka to continue south to the rest of Donetsk......



have you seen the Seversk-Soledar-Bukhmut defence line?

its been fortified over a 8 year period, deep under ground tunnels, concrete structures, trenches and interlocking artillery fire

all the forest in-between also have trenches and hidden pill boxes its a very tough fight

if Russia can break this line they can break anything and I mean anything

plus Ukraine has received alot of weapons and they are getting reinforcements in so its not like Russia can go around and outflank and encircle and cut the line which they are very well good at, this time its basically blasting through the line using sheer firepower

it took US 9 months to take Fallujah and it was against poorly trained Iraqis and it fell to ISIS in 2 weeks

so lets give credit where it is due next, and also the temperature is about to drop and Winter suites the Russians right down to the T and when those forests have no leaves they wont be of any benefit to the defending Ukrainians

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## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> have you seen the Seversk-Soledar-Bukhmut defence line?
> 
> its been fortified over a 8 year period, deep under ground tunnels, concrete structures, trenches and interlocking artillery fire
> 
> all the forest in-between also have trenches and hidden pill boxes its a very tough fight
> 
> if Russia can break this line they can break anything and I mean anything
> 
> plus Ukraine has received alot of weapons and they are getting reinforcements in so its not like Russia can go around and outflank and encircle and cut the line which they are very well good at, this time its basically blasting through the line using sheer firepower
> 
> it took US 9 months to take Fallujah and it was against poorly trained Iraqis and it fell to ISIS in 2 weeks
> 
> so lets give credit where it is due next, and also the temperature is about to drop and Winter suites the Russians right down to the T and when those forests have no leaves they wont be of any benefit to the defending Ukrainians


Are you seriously comparing a conventional military operation in Ukraine to anti-insurgency operation in Fallujah? By the way, US troop took Fallujah on day 13 of Operation Iraqi Freedom. And it's 179 days since Russian invasion, they still can't take Pisky, which is merely 1 mile away from Donetsk international Airport....

I mean, if you are really doing this, then I got nothing to say......

And lol, it wasn't like they build that line for 8 years, anyway, what does that mean, so you build a trench for 8 years and it somehow can offer you more protection??

And don't forget this war started in winter. And it would have been true for Russia when they started this war. But with almost all their advance military equipment gone and have to resort to old MLRS and T-64? What kind of advantage do Russia have left?

And it's not like you just look at what is happening to predict 3 months down the road. You need to look at how Russia handles this war in the easy time and how they handle it in the hard time. If you believe by some magic Russia will be able to continue their advance in winter in an offensive role no less, when they failed to do it with fresh troop and better equipment, I will consider that wishful thinking.

This is not WW2 and Ukraine is not Germany, German was not accustomed to harsh Russian winter, Ukrainian had, and as defender, they have a better job as you fight in prepared position, for an attacker, you need to get into open to do your job.

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## aziqbal

jhungary said:


> Are you seriously comparing a conventional military operation in Ukraine to anti-insurgency operation in Fallujah? By the way, US troop took Fallujah on day 13 of Operation Iraqi Freedom. And it's 179 days since Russian invasion, they still can't take Pisky, which is merely 1 mile away from Donetsk international Airport....
> 
> I mean, if you are really doing this, then I got nothing to say......
> 
> And lol, it wasn't like they build that line for 8 years, anyway, what does that mean, so you build a trench for 8 years and it somehow can offer you more protection??
> 
> And don't forget this war started in winter. And it would have been true for Russia when they started this war. But with almost all their advance military equipment gone and have to resort to old MLRS and T-64? What kind of advantage do Russia have left?
> 
> And it's not like you just look at what is happening to predict 3 months down the road. You need to look at how Russia handles this war in the easy time and how they handle it in the hard time. If you believe by some magic Russia will be able to continue their advance in winter in an offensive role no less, when they failed to do it with fresh troop and better equipment, I will consider that wishful thinking.
> 
> This is not WW2 and Ukraine is not Germany, German was not accustomed to harsh Russian winter, Ukrainian had, and as defender, they have a better job as you fight in prepared position, for an attacker, you need to get into open to do your job.



Iraq has only Iran supporting them with less than adequate weapons 

Just the USA let alone others 

HIMARS, Javelin, Stingers, 155mm Howizters, Switchbaldes, M113, Sentinel air surveillance radars and millions of rounds of ammunition 

bit unfair to compare to Iraqi insurgency while Ukrainian insurgency is 100x more better equipped


----------



## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> Iraq has only Iran supporting them with less than adequate weapons
> 
> Just the USA let alone others
> 
> HIMARS, Javelin, Stingers, 155mm Howizters, Switchbaldes, M113, Sentinel air surveillance radars and millions of rounds of ammunition
> 
> bit unfair to compare to Iraqi insurgency while Ukrainian insurgency is 100x more better equipped


It's unfair to compare a counter-insurgency operation to a conventional operation FULL STOP.. And Ukrainian has not reached the insurgency state, because they haven't been conquered yet, when Russia did conquer Ukraine, then that stage can start. But by the progress Russia is making, you are talking about a 20% or less territorial gain in 6 months. It would be at least 30 months to gain 100%, that is if they are ever doable. 

I mean, do you really, like REALLY still think Russia can occupied the entire Ukraine to begin with? Seeing how they fought this war in the last 6 months?

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## aziqbal

jhungary said:


> It's unfair to compare a counter-insurgency operation to a conventional operation FULL STOP.. And Ukrainian has not reached the insurgency state, because they haven't been conquered yet, when Russia did conquer Ukraine, then that stage can start. But by the progress Russia is making, you are talking about a 20% or less territorial gain in 6 months. It would be at least 30 months to gain 100%, that is if they are ever doable.
> 
> I mean, do you really, like REALLY still think Russia can occupied the entire Ukraine to begin with? Seeing how they fought this war in the last 6 months?



I dont know where you have been for the past 8 years 

there has been a insurgency in Ukraine since 2014 and they only ever lost more and more land 

ignorance is free look at history 

just like no one can conquer Afghanistan 

Russia has not become the largest country in the World by giving up land


----------



## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> I dont know where you have been for the past 8 years
> 
> there has been a insurgency in Ukraine since 2014 and they only ever lost more and more land
> 
> ignorance is free look at history
> 
> just like no one can conquer Afghanistan
> 
> Russia has not become the largest country in the World by giving up land


lol, whatever float your boat.

But don't forget, in this case, Ukraine, not Russia is Afghanistan. And we all know what happened to Soviet in Afghanistan.....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561642686502821888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561770767293059074

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561770781260103681


----------



## Type59

Primus said:


> People that make memes of this conflict need to be hit in the head with a cricket ball



Americans are making light of casualties on both sides, of course they celebrate Russian ones more.

I believe PDF admins avoided glorification of US deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

aziqbal said:


> 50% Soleder is taken
> 
> Bakhmut East is taken and they have advanced into the city centre
> 
> Seversk has lost 2 suburbs
> 
> basically when this defensive line falls the Russian juggernaut will steam forward at full pace through the open country and no other defensive line is in the way


Hi, 
Where did those donated M113s go ?
The Ukrainians had a lot of tanks and there were videos of them driving to some location. Neither side reported about it furthest. I wonder why.
It seems as if they have vanished.
Secondly. Noticing that Ukrainian Artillery has gone a bit quiet lately.
A lot less Javelins and shoulder fired anti-tank weapons from Ukraine as well.


----------



## Viet

More deadly than Hirmas!

Germany delivers high precision 155mm guided ammunition “Vulcano” to Ukraine.

Can hit moving targets at 70km distance.







Bild vergrößern
Panzerhaubitze 2000: Noch präziser durch Vulcano-Munition
Foto: Andreas Beil / IMAGO
Weiterlesen









(S+) Was die neue Vulcano-Munition der Ukraine bringt


Deutschland will erstmals neuartige Geschosse in die Ukraine schicken – nicht einmal die Bundeswehr verfügt bisher darüber. Eine Besonderheit der Granaten: Sie können ihre Flugbahn nach dem Abschuss verändern.




www.spiegel.de

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## The SC




----------



## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Not in commercial products but in terms of military products Russia is still stop notch.


Exactly what kind of top notch modern military products is Russia exporting?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 2nd generation Raptor patrol boats. The American engines have been replaced by Chinese engines after Russia America bromance ended for good. These can be used to bolster Kherson defense by patrolling in the Dnipr river around Kherson.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560727815070404610


Just copy of the swedish CB90 with US build engines and UK build jet propellars..


----------



## Primus

Type59 said:


> Americans are making light of casualties on both sides, of course they celebrate Russian ones more.
> 
> I believe PDF admins avoided glorification of US deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Glorification of a soldiers death regardless of their nationality, is just stupid and wrong. Especially with regards to an ongoing conflict

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## Viet

Ukraine signs agreement with Iceye.
The agreement will give Ukraine access to high solution radar imaging.

Perfect for Ukraine’s precise artillery strikes

The bridge over crimea.















ICEYE Provides Ukraine with Access to Its SAR Satellite Constellation


The contract signed with the Serhiy Prytula Charity Foundation will provide Ukraine with the full capabilities for one of ICEYE’s satellites.




www.iceye.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561816405598666753


Viet said:


> More deadly than Hirmas!
> 
> Germany delivers high precision 155mm guided ammunition “Vulcano” to Ukraine.
> 
> Can hit moving targets at 70km distance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Panzerhaubitze 2000: Noch präziser durch Vulcano-Munition
> Foto: Andreas Beil / IMAGO
> Weiterlesen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (S+) Was die neue Vulcano-Munition der Ukraine bringt
> 
> 
> Deutschland will erstmals neuartige Geschosse in die Ukraine schicken – nicht einmal die Bundeswehr verfügt bisher darüber. Eine Besonderheit der Granaten: Sie können ihre Flugbahn nach dem Abschuss verändern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de



Too few to make a difference, and most were destroyed in storage by Iskander and Tornado-S.


----------



## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> TOW is a major step down from Javelin. If they are getting 1980s TOW the way Syrian rebels did it's not much use. The tripod launcher is way too heavy to be man portable. Not to mention it has bad accuracy being wire guided. In Syria TOW performed badly even against obsolete 1970s T-72. At best TOW can be compared to Konkurs but is vastly inferior to Kornet which has much better accuracy being laser guided. It does appear Americans are running low on Javelin stock.


The TOW system has longer range than the Javelin and is all good for the stationary fighting Ukraine is doing, and it is man portable in 3 man crews.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thermite attack


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561814259692085248
thermobaric attack


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561812797327032326
more thermobaric attack


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561786400990810114
Alligator and Havoc attack aircraft


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561826366143725569


MeFishToo said:


> The TOW system has longer range than the Javelin and is all good for the stationary fighting Ukraine is doing, and it is man portable in 3 man crews.



TOW has longer range on paper but it is wired guided which means it's only accurate to about 2 km. It has a heavy tripod and is not man portable like Javelin. With Javelin a single guy can run around with it and shoot while running. And TOW positions are easy to spot with drones.


----------



## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> TOW has longer range on paper but it is wired guided which means it's only accurate to about 2 km. It has a heavy tripod and is not man portable like Javelin. With Javelin a single guy can run around with it and shoot while running. And TOW positions are easy to spot with drones.


The effectiveness of the ukrainian Stuhna-P is probably the most video documented weapon in this war. And still you make such a claim.

Besides the TOW missile is probably going to be fitted to light vehicles if used in open terrain insted of predominantly wooded areas.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561835603733331972

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561834555488800769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561811888740208641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561798428203667462

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561784775798562820

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561783736856879104


MeFishToo said:


> The effectiveness of the ukrainian Stuhna-P is probably the most video documented weapon in this war. And still you make such a claim.
> 
> Besides the TOW missile is probably going to be fitted to light vehicles if used in open terrain insted of predominantly wooded areas.



Stugna P is laser guided, not wire guided. It's accurate to about 4 km compared to about 2 km for Konkurs.

TOW has rarely been mounted on pickups in Syria if at all. Usually it's mounted on a bigger vehicle like HUMVEE as shown in War Of The Worlds (2005). As such it's vulnerable to drones.

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## Type59

Primus said:


> Glorification of a soldiers death regardless of their nationality, is just stupid and wrong. Especially with regards to an ongoing conflict


That is the point, I am making.

The regular posters on this thread, do not understand the history of warfare. I don't have the patience to educate them.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561854663707791360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561856447306235905


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553741172006338562

Russian losses now exceed 5,300

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553741172006338562
> 
> Russian losses now exceed 5,300



Doubt. 90% of that is probably rebels. Russians only provide air and artillery support.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561873832255934466
knocked out ex Polish or Czech T-72 in Nikolaiv region


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

etylo said:


> Don't you Viet smear Chinese all the time for the wrongs they didn't do. When did Chinese interfere in other countries' internal affairs let alone invade others ?


The Chinese government *regularily* interfere with other countries demanding end of Freedom of Speech.

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## etylo

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Chinese government *regularily* interfere with other countries demanding end of Freedom of Speech.


Like which country, when and what was the incident ?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

etylo said:


> Like which country, when and what was the incident ?


Just google Chinese ambassador Sweden, and you will find plenty.
Norway was hit with sanctions when Dalai Lama got the Nobel Peace price.


----------



## etylo

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Just google Chinese ambassador Sweden, and you will find plenty.
> Norway was hit with sanctions when Dalai Lama got the Nobel Peace price.


You are talking about Sweden and Norway interfering in Chinese internal affairs according to the Chinese side. Dalai Lama is a political figure, not just a religious figure, with political agenda that wants to create pretty much independent Greater Tibet state carved out of China. Norway by intentionally awarding Dalai Lama the Nobel Peace Prize to anger China, Norway is openly supporting Dalai Lama group's cause and interfering in Chinese internal affairs. In the case of the Swedish book keeper in Hong Kong who wanted to to sell banned books that are against Chinese laws and regulations, and you Swedish think he should get special treatment in the name of freedom of speech since he is Swedish and Chinese law shouldn't apply.

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## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Stugna P is laser guided, not wire guided. It's accurate to about 4 km compared to about 2 km for Konkurs.
> 
> TOW has rarely been mounted on pickups in Syria if at all. Usually it's mounted on a bigger vehicle like HUMVEE as shown in War Of The Worlds (2005). As such it's vulnerable to drones.


It doesnt matter if its the wire guided version of TOW. It still has longer range than Javelin. Its comparable to Stugna that is used with great succes.
Anything that doesnt fit your pro-russian narrative is “vulnerable to drones”..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561863511797420032


MeFishToo said:


> Its comparable to Stugna that is used with great succes.



Stugna P is a joke.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561816405598666753
> 
> 
> Too few to make a difference, and most were destroyed in storage by Iskander and Tornado-S.


Ok 255 rounds that doesn’t sound much. However that a superwaffe my friend. New development.
Ukraine army gets the vulcano ammo while German army even hasn’t it.
CEP 1m.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> That’s a superwaffe my friend. New development.
> Ukraine army gets it while German army even hasn’t.



Yet Ukraine can never retake a city even from a weakling like Russia. Means it's not good enough.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Yet Ukraine can never retake a city even from a weakling like Russia. Means it's not good enough.


Say never never 
Putin wanted to conquer Kiew in 3 days.

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## ZeGerman

etylo said:


> Like which country, when and what was the incident ?


Several wars with vietnam and stealing their ocean territory. 

Interfered in korea war.

Etc.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Say never never
> Putin wanted to conquer Kiew in 3 days.



Really? It took Putin 3 years just to conquer Daraa. And that was from a bunch of sandal wearing stone age folks.


----------



## etylo

ZeGerman said:


> Several wars with vietnam and stealing their ocean territory.
> 
> Interfered in korea war.
> 
> Etc.


China entered Korea war and war with Vietnam are all for self defence. US army had reached the Korea-Chinese border and Macurther was very likely to strike into Chinese territory up to the Chinese capital as he had said before China entered the war, so you want Chinese nation to sit idle to be bombed and totally destroyed by US and that's you call the right way for Chinese to act ? Don't be hypocrite, it's OK for you whites to slaughrer people all the way to Chinese captial and Chinese can't take up arms for self-defense ? China just recovered rightfully Chinese reefs or islands in South China sea in clashes with Vietnam, not stealing. All these wars happened long ago, more than 40 years ago. Have China invaded or had war with any countries since more than 40 years ago ? How many countries you Europeans and Americans had invaded and waged wars on and how many millions of innocent people around the world have you whites killed in the last 40 years ? You Europeans don't know the history and facts of South China sea, you should not take side for your ignorance.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561965513441517570

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561939550674493441

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## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> lol, whatever float your boat.
> 
> But don't forget, in this case, Ukraine, not Russia is Afghanistan. And we all know what happened to Soviet in Afghanistan.....


We also know what happened to America in Afghanistan. Lololol. Comparing Iraq to Ukriane is like comparing smurfs to orcs.



aziqbal said:


> have you seen the Seversk-Soledar-Bukhmut defence line?
> 
> its been fortified over a 8 year period, deep under ground tunnels, concrete structures, trenches and interlocking artillery fire
> 
> all the forest in-between also have trenches and hidden pill boxes its a very tough fight
> 
> if Russia can break this line they can break anything and I mean anything
> 
> plus Ukraine has received alot of weapons and they are getting reinforcements in so its not like Russia can go around and outflank and encircle and cut the line which they are very well good at, this time its basically blasting through the line using sheer firepower
> 
> it took US 9 months to take Fallujah and it was against poorly trained Iraqis and it fell to ISIS in 2 weeks
> 
> so lets give credit where it is due next, and also the temperature is about to drop and Winter suites the Russians right down to the T and when those forests have no leaves they wont be of any benefit to the defending Ukrainians


This is actually good analysis. Once Russia blasts this defence line off, its steamroller action.

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## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> We also know what happened to America in Afghanistan. Lololol. Comparing Iraq to Ukriane is like comparing smurfs to orcs.
> 
> 
> This is actually good analysis. Once Russia blasts this defence line off, its steamroller action.


at least we didn't take 6 months to roll Taliban over in Afghanistan

So yes, you can't compare

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> at least we didn't take 6 months to roll Taliban over in Afghanistan
> 
> So yes, you can't compare


The AT and AFG War 2001, cannot be compared in any way to the current RUS-UKR war of today.

One is conventional the other isn't. @Han Patriot

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## jhungary

Primus said:


> The AT and AFG War 2001, cannot be compared in any way to the current RUS-UKR war of today.
> 
> One is conventional the other isn't. @Han Patriot


No 2 wars are the same, you cannot compare any war to any war, period.

Well, you can compare, but the parameters are always going to be different. Which make it either make sense if you are talking about very specific issue (like troop ratio or how a particular platform performed) or it is pointless.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561925210672185344

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## ZeGerman

etylo said:


> China entered Korea war and war with Vietnam are all for self defence.



China invaded vietnam after vietnam
Ousted the red khmer in cambodia (pol pot, murderer of millions, being chinas ally)

No self defence there


etylo said:


> US army had reached the Korea-Chinese border and Macurther was very likely to strike into Chinese territory up to the Chinese capital as he had said before China entered the war,



Do Macarthur was a dictator? There were no plans nor logistics set up for that. It was not likely at all. 

This is pure China wanting a buffer state on their border. And support another dictator murdering his own people (Kim). 

Again no self defence.


etylo said:


> so you want Chinese nation to sit idle to be bombed and totally destroyed by US and that's you call the right way for Chinese to act ?



Ofcourse not. And then it would be self defence. However they acted and invaded way before this even had a chance of happening…you are to stupid to see the difference?


etylo said:


> Don't be hypocrite, it's OK for you whites to slaughrer people all the way to Chinese captial and Chinese can't take up arms for self-defense ?


You are discussing your own deluded racist hallucination now. Not my post. Stick to the subject. 


etylo said:


> China just recovered rightfully Chinese reefs or islands in South China sea in clashes with Vietnam, not stealing.


The cow tongue claim is ridiculous in light of multiple countries territorial waters. Pure territory grabbing. 


etylo said:


> All these wars happened long ago, more than 40 years ago. Have China invaded or had war with any countries since more than 40 years ago ?


Playing with timeline now? 
They “never” interfere was the point. Which is untrue. 

And they have been biding their time…taiwan is under risk of invasion now…

“How many countries you Europeans and Americans had invaded and waged wars on and how many millions of innocent people around the world have you whites killed in the last 40 years ?”

Pot calling the kettle black? I am responding to “china NeVER” interferes which is ahistorical BULLSHIT. 

Fact. You can stop your Whataboutism….

“ You Europeans don't know the history and facts of South China sea, you should not take side for your ignorance.”


Yet the ignorant one turned out to be you….now sit down kid..the grownups were talking.

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## Broccoli

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Hi,
> Where did those donated M113s go ?
> The Ukrainians had a lot of tanks and there were videos of them driving to some location. Neither side reported about it furthest. I wonder why.
> It seems as if they have vanished.
> Secondly. Noticing that Ukrainian Artillery has gone a bit quiet lately.
> A lot less Javelins and shoulder fired anti-tank weapons from Ukraine as well.



It's actually Russian artillery what has gotten a lot quieter due Ukrainians taking out their ammo depots on daily basis. Only few hours ago it happaned again.


----------



## etylo

ZeGerman said:


> China invaded vietnam after vietnam
> Ousted the red khmer in cambodia (pol pot, murderer of millions, being chinas ally)
> 
> No self defence there
> 
> 
> Do Macarthur was a dictator? There were no plans nor logistics set up for that. It was not likely at all.
> 
> This is pure China wanting a buffer state on their border. And support another dictator murdering his own people (Kim).
> 
> Again no self defence.
> 
> 
> Ofcourse not. And then it would be self defence. However they acted and invaded way before this even had a chance of happening…you are to stupid to see the difference?
> 
> You are discussing your own deluded racist hallucination now. Not my post. Stick to the subject.
> 
> The cow tongue claim is ridiculous in light of multiple countries territorial waters. Pure territory grabbing.
> 
> Playing with timeline now?
> They “never” interfere was the point. Which is untrue.
> 
> And they have been biding their time…taiwan is under risk of invasion now…
> 
> “How many countries you Europeans and Americans had invaded and waged wars on and how many millions of innocent people around the world have you whites killed in the last 40 years ?”
> 
> Pot calling the kettle black? I am responding to “china NeVER” interferes which is ahistorical BULLSHIT.
> 
> Fact. You can stop your Whataboutism….
> 
> “ You Europeans don't know the history and facts of South China sea, you should not take side for your ignorance.”
> 
> 
> Yet the ignorant one turned out to be you….now sit down kid..the grownups were talking.


Vietnam war
China went to war with Vietnam after border clashes between the two countries.

Korea war
So you think China should had waited until US army marched into China right to the capital before China should prepare and fight ? US army had been bombing Chinese cities along the border when US army first entered the Korea war, that's a fact. Besides, US army was given mandate by UN to restore South Korea, but not to cross 38th parallel to march onto border of Chinese territory, that was illegal. Chinese entered the Korea war of course 100% for self defence and Chinese had every right to defend the way they did. Are you pure stupid or just racist pretending not to see these facts, think you whites can dictate and write whatever you want ?

What North Korean gov does in their country is its own internal affairs, non of Chinese business.

Taiwan is Chinese territory as accepted by your country, UN and all the countries in the world. So, Taiwan issue is Chinese internal affair, non of your business.

Now, you want people to not mention the heinous war crimes you Europeans and Americans have committed since the fall of Soviet Union, West has became the sole dominant power ? I am mentioning the wars you people waged then to make valid comparison, see who is the devil.

And don't talk to me in patronizing way, bigot ! You think you whites are adults, Chinese and Asians are kids that should obey you whites ? And you whites should intervene and decide the affairs in Asia ? Just get lost with you colonial bigot attitudes in Asia.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Broccoli said:


> It's actually Russian artillery what has gotten a lot quieter due Ukrainians taking out their ammo depots on daily basis. Only few hours ago it happaned again.


Ground reality doesn't align with your opinion though. Russians are still gaining ground. They have showed an immunity especially now to what Ukraine throws at them. They just can't stop the advance. Whatever the speed maybe. I'm still searching for those donated tanks Ukrainians showed a few days back. M113s are also missing from action.


----------



## Viet

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Ground reality doesn't align with your opinion though. Russians are still gaining ground. They have showed an immunity especially now to what Ukraine throws at them. They just can't stop the advance. Whatever the speed maybe. I'm still searching for those donated tanks Ukrainians showed a few days back. M113s are also missing from action.


Yes Russians won some meters additional grounds here and there but with what costs? That gains can be taken away by Ukraine troops. Worthless sacrifices. 6 months into the war we can conclude Russia can’t beat Ukraine army. Russia is weakened and destroyed. The West uses Ukraine as testing ground for new weapons on Russia.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine air defense still working.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562032556836638721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562031906958499841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562025408274599936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562033038388756480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562030862077771776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562026212863655937


Broccoli said:


> It's actually Russian artillery what has gotten a lot quieter due Ukrainians taking out their ammo depots on daily basis. Only few hours ago it happaned again.



They could not hit ammo depots in Russia. Meanwhile, all of Ukraine's ammo depots east of Dnipr are going boom boom by Iskander and Tornado-S. In terms of ammo losses, Ukraine gets it much worse than Russia.

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## ZeGerman

etylo said:


> Vietnam war
> China went to war with Vietnam after border clashes between the two countries.


“The child is getting naughty, it is time he got spanked”

After rising tensions China straight up invaded Vietnam. Again, there hardly is “self defence” here. 


etylo said:


> Korea war
> So you think China should had waited until US army marched into China right to the capital before China should prepare and fight ? US army had been bombing Chinese cities along the border when US army first entered the Korea war, that's a fact. Besides, US army was given mandate by UN to restore South Korea, but not to cross 38th parallel to march onto border of Chinese territory, that was illegal. Chinese entered the Korea war of course 100% for self defence


What self defence?
There was no mandate , no plan, no preperations to undertake a chinese invasion at the time they wanted to unify korea. 

You can NOT “self defend” against a hypothetical future reality. 

can you comprehend that? No?


etylo said:


> and Chinese had every right to defend the way they did. Are you pure stupid or just racist pretending not to see these facts, think you whites can dictate and write whatever you want ?


The only racist here is you. Constantly Generalizing as “the west” and “whites” .

Do you see me adressing you like that? All those millions killed by pol pot! How could you “yellows” do that? 

This is how you sound…. A racist idiot. 


etylo said:


> What North Korean gov does in their country is its own internal affairs, non of Chinese business.
> 
> Taiwan is Chinese territory as accepted by your country, UN and all the countries in the world. So, Taiwan issue is Chinese internal affair, non of your business.


China is on collision course to military invade taiwan. And will heavily sanction and threathen all that dare to show support for taiwan. 

“No interferance”? 


etylo said:


> Now, you want people to not mention the heinous war crimes you Europeans and Americans have committed since the fall of Soviet Union, West has became the sole dominant power ? I am mentioning the wars you people waged then to make valid comparison, see who is the devil.


Whataboutism…look up that logical fallacy buddy….


etylo said:


> And don't talk to me in patronizing way, bigot ! You think you whites are adults, Chinese and Asians are kids that should obey you whites ? And you whites should intervene and decide the affairs in Asia ? Just get lost with you colonial bigot attitudes in Asia.


Once you can act like an adult i will treat you like one. So far you fail to do so. Throwing racist tantrums like the above.

And with that i am done with discussing with you. Back on topic with ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562025526897901569


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562019972838301696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562014386453094402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562008147245649920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561995463129239552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561987389102460929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561978749519814657


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553741172006338562
> 
> Russian losses now exceed 5,300


Russia minimum losses must stand around 50-70k and Ukraine around 200,000k plus 
Only in Mariupol Ukraine lost 20k soldiers

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## Vergennes

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Russia minimum losses must stand around 50-70k and Ukraine around 200,000k plus
> Only in Mariupol Ukraine lost 20k soldiers



Ukrainian chief of staff has aknowledged the death of 9.000 soldiers. "+200k" is just copium the Russians are smoking every days. Had 200.000 Ukrainian soldiers be "neutralized" they would already party in Lviv and Odessa.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562037753411502081


----------



## Primus

Vergennes said:


> Ukrainian chief of staff has aknowledged the death of 9.000 soldiers. "+200k" is just copium the Russians are smoking every days. Had 200.000 Ukrainian soldiers be "neutralized" they would already party in Lviv and Odessa.


And you actually believe that?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> Ukrainian chief of staff has aknowledged the death of 9.000 soldiers. "+200k" is just copium the Russians are smoking every days. Had 200.000 Ukrainian soldiers be "neutralized" they would already party in Lviv and Odessa.



That's not too bad. Azerbaijan lost 2,000 soldiers over a period of 2 months in Karabakh war 2 years ago. Ukraine lost 4,000 soldiers over a period of 6 months in 2014 and 2015 when war in Donbas just started.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Yes Russians won some meters additional grounds here and there but with what costs? *That gains can be taken away by Ukraine troops*. Worthless sacrifices. 6 months into the war we can conclude Russia can’t beat Ukraine army. Russia is weakened and destroyed. The West uses Ukraine as testing ground for new weapons on Russia.


People keep saying "Russia is gaining ground" that's why Russia is winning. 

Most people here don't even know WAR IS DYNAMIC. It's never how you gain ground; it's how you hold it. Well, I seem to remember Russia had control of North of Kyiv, North of Kharkiv, Snake Island, Most of Kherson (all the way up to Mykolaiv), those are all ground "gained" by Russia. So........what happened to those places now?

Russia don't just need to gain ground to win this war, they need to be able to hold their occupied land. Ukrainian only need to hang on until Russia either is broke or bored. They now even casting doubt the security in Crimea after their airfield keep blowing up. And yet, somehow, people still think Russia is winning. I mean, if I invaded a tiny country (compare to Russia Ukraine is tiny) and for 6 months I can only take roughly 20% of its land (10% of that were taken before even the war started) and now even have problem securing those land previously took, I would not call this a successful operation.

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## Viet

Ilja Ponomarjow
A Russian
The man behind the bomb blast in Moscow killing the daughter of propaganda chief Dugin.
Ponomarjow is the founder of “Russia national republican army”.
His goal is partisan war in Russia and overthrow Putin’s regime.
Congrats, he is now Putin’s public enemy number 1.






Ilja Ponomarjow


----------



## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Russia minimum losses must stand around 50-70k and Ukraine around 200,000k plus
> Only in Mariupol Ukraine lost 20k soldiers


It's hard to lose 20k soldiers when Mariupol is defended by a Single Brigade, less than 6000 men (Azov BATTALION is a BATTALION, it's like 4-600 men strong) 

There are no way Ukraine lost 200k troop, 200k with civilian maybe, but 200k Troop consider their total troop number is somewhere around 4--500,000 now, that would be a war breaking lost and if they do, either Russia is so inept not to take advantage on or Ukrainian would have already been defeated, Russian is dumb but not that dumb and Ukrainian is still alive and kicking and fighting continue, so 200k troop loss is a BS. 

Conventional wisdom suggests both side loss 100,000 dead and wounded.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562065743029616640

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562022549441191938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562022551014064132

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561984214995800064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562074175476473856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561958445124820993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562017127116292098

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561974650015518721


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562004860660318208


----------



## Vergennes

Primus said:


> And you actually believe that?



Safer to believe than RuMod claims like they have destroyed more himars than Ukraine received,destroyed them inside floor apartment buildings,the moskva wasn't hit and is on way home,lmao.

If the US claims they have delivered F35s to Ukraine without actually delivering them be sure Russia would claim they have downed 40 of them actually.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> Safer to believe than RuMod claims like they have destroyed more himars than Ukraine received,destroyed them inside floor apartment buildings,the moskva wasn't hit and is on way home,lmao.
> 
> If the US claims they have delivered F35s to Ukraine without actually delivering them be sure Russia would claim they have downed 40 of them actually.



It's easier to destroy HIMARS ammo than the trucks. HIMARS ammo have to be stored no more than 70 km from the front. They can be found by satellites and drones. Iskander can hit ammo depots from more than 400 km away.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562096600893345793

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562096602482974724

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562093049399885824

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Doubt. 90% of that is probably rebels. Russians only provide air and artillery support.


Seriously?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Seriously?



Seems to be judging from footages. Very few Russian army units are deployed in combat.


----------



## Viet

Germany gives additional 500 million euros for weapons purchases. Ukraine will receive 3 more anti aircraft defense systems Iris. More tanks, more missile launchers. wunderwaffen made in Germany.








Luft-Luft-Kurzstreckenraketen vom Typ IRIS-T bei einer Verkaufsschau im Juni.





__





IRIS-T, Panzer, Raketenwerfer: Scholz verspricht Kiew großes Waffenpaket - n-tv.de


Zum Unabhängigkeitstag der Ukraine begnügt sich die Ampel-Regierung nicht mit guten Wünschen. Laut einem Insider sagt Kanzler Scholz Kiew ein Waffenpaket im Umfang von 500 Millionen Euro zu. Auch Außenministerin Baerbock kündigt modernes Gerät an.



amp.n-tv.de


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562106163151470592


Viet said:


> Germany gives additional 500 million euros for weapons purchases. 3 more anti aircraft defense systems Iris.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luft-Luft-Kurzstreckenraketen vom Typ IRIS-T bei einer Verkaufsschau im Juni.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IRIS-T, Panzer, Raketenwerfer: Scholz verspricht Kiew großes Waffenpaket - n-tv.de
> 
> 
> Zum Unabhängigkeitstag der Ukraine begnügt sich die Ampel-Regierung nicht mit guten Wünschen. Laut einem Insider sagt Kanzler Scholz Kiew ein Waffenpaket im Umfang von 500 Millionen Euro zu. Auch Außenministerin Baerbock kündigt modernes Gerät an.
> 
> 
> 
> amp.n-tv.de



Waste of money for nothing.

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## Primus

Vergennes said:


> Safer to believe than RuMod claims like they have destroyed more himars than Ukraine received,destroyed them inside floor apartment buildings,the moskva wasn't hit and is on way home,lmao.
> 
> If the US claims they have delivered F35s to Ukraine without actually delivering them be sure Russia would claim they have downed 40 of them actually.


You know both sides are lying right now?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562107467277926400

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562109106252562433

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562109106252562433



Easily replaced.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562106163151470592
> 
> 
> Waste of money for nothing.


More top notch than anything Putin puts to war. Where Russia T14 tank? Most tanks, artillery are old stuffs come from USSR depots. Some weapons are older than Putin.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> More top notch than anything Putin puts to war. Where Russia T14 tank? Most are old stuffs come from USSR depots.



T-14 is not operational yet. Russia does not have any war economy to crank things quickly. This is forever war. Therefore, the slow turtle wins the race and the fast hare loses, eventually.

Germany will burn itself out after about 10 years at this pace. On the other hand, Russia still be chugging along after 100 years at this pace.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> T-14 is not operational yet. Russia does not have any war economy to crank things quickly. This is forever war. Therefore, the slow turtle wins the race and the fast hare loses, eventually.
> 
> Germany will burn itself out after about 10 years at this pace. On the other hand, Russia still be chugging along after 100 years at this pace.


Then how Russia wants to win this war? By what means? 50 countries support Ukraine with money and weapon. This special military ops shit costs Russia 365 billion USD per year. Just a matter of time Putin gets old, Russia goes bankrupt.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Then how Russia wants to win this war?



There is no winner. It is forever war which means 100 years from now it's still going. Because it is forever, you need to pace it out or else you will burn out.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562119723558600705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562116054838558721

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1 | Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Then how Russia wants to win this war? By what means? 50 countries support Ukraine with money and weapon. This special military ops shit costs Russia 365 billion USD per year. Just a matter of time Putin gets old, Russia goes bankrupt.



After Putin die of old age, the next Russian president continue the war. No more money. Then Russia print money like the US does. Print lots of money.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562119723558600705
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562116054838558721



3 billion is too little. 3 trillion is more like it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562127454713659392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562132406785740800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562132966821830658

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562107470964838402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562112601978462211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562112598618898432

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Seems to be judging from footages. Very few Russian army units are deployed in combat.


😂



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> After Putin die of old age, the next Russian president continue the war. No more money. Then Russia print money like the US does. Print lots of money.
> 
> 
> 
> 3 billion is too little. 3 trillion is more like it.


Just stop, it’s pure stupidity at this point


----------



## jhungary

Very good video about Situation in Kherson

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## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It's easier to destroy HIMARS ammo than the trucks. HIMARS ammo have to be stored no more than 70 km from the front. They can be found by satellites and drones. Iskander can hit ammo depots from more than 400 km away.


Show us a russian satelite image. 
Russia doesnt shy away from showing drone footage, so why dont they provide satelite images documenting their claims? ..


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Viet said:


> Yes Russians won some meters additional grounds here and there but with what costs? That gains can be taken away by Ukraine troops. Worthless sacrifices. 6 months into the war we can conclude Russia can’t beat Ukraine army. Russia is weakened and destroyed. The West uses Ukraine as testing ground for new weapons on Russia.


This is height of being brainwashed.
If you cannot see the damage done to the Ukrainians and the losses they have taken then sorry you have no sympathy towards them rather you are just happy that Russians are dying. Identifying how much you care for the Ukrainians. The casualties, infrastructure damage to Ukrainians is immense. Meters of land ? Nice. Is your country willing to donate said "meters" of land to Chinese, Russians or Ukrainians for that matter ? I don't think so. Ukrainians will take back the said gains .... Well as of now their announced counter offensives have vanished (the first point i was making). The ones planned in the few weeks before. The columns of tanks and APCs are nowhere to be seen.
Downplaying Ukrainian sacrifices is criminality to their cause in itself. No matter how foolish it was to poke the Bear like they did.

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## A.P. Richelieu

etylo said:


> You are talking about Sweden and Norway interfering in Chinese internal affairs according to the Chinese side. Dalai Lama is a political figure, not just a religious figure, with political agenda that wants to create pretty much independent Greater Tibet state carved out of China. Norway by intentionally awarding Dalai Lama the Nobel Peace Prize to anger China, Norway is openly supporting Dalai Lama group's cause and interfering in Chinese internal affairs. In the case of the Swedish book keeper in Hong Kong who wanted to to sell banned books that are against Chinese laws and regulations, and you Swedish think he should get special treatment in the name of freedom of speech since he is Swedish and Chinese law shouldn't apply.


That is exactly what I am talking about. ”Sweden” does not interfere in Chinese internal affairs. Journalists, which represent themselves or possibly a newspaper write stories about whatever seems newsworthy, and China demands that they stop doing that. That is trying to curb Freedom of Speech.
”Norway” did not award Dalai Lama the Nobel Peace Prize. The Nobel Committee did that.
China kidnapping people is not going to gain them good press anywhere.
The moron representing China was replaced when demands to kick him out rised in volume.

You are on ignore from now on.

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## Viet

Iron Shrappenel said:


> This is height of being brainwashed.
> If you cannot see the damage done to the Ukrainians and the losses they have taken then sorry you have no sympathy towards them rather you are just happy that Russians are dying. Identifying how much you care for the Ukrainians. The casualties, infrastructure damage to Ukrainians is immense. Meters of land ? Nice. Is your country willing to donate said "meters" of land to Chinese, Russians or Ukrainians for that matter ? I don't think so. Ukrainians will take back the said gains .... Well as of now their announced counter offensives have vanished (the first point i was making). The ones planned in the few weeks before. The columns of tanks and APCs are nowhere to be seen.
> Downplaying Ukrainian sacrifices is criminality to their cause in itself. No matter how foolish it was to poke the Bear like they did.


Me, brainwashed? Nonsense. If there is no potential Russia invasion into Europe, if there is no gas shortage the Russians can kill as people much as they want. No it’s a joke. Every human life is worth. The Russians fight an justified war. They are at wrong time, wrong place. Ukraine fights on their homeland every sacrifice is worth of. While all Russian sacrifices are worthless.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

etylo said:


> China entered Korea war and war with Vietnam are all for self defence. US army had reached the Korea-Chinese border and Macurther was very likely to strike into Chinese territory up to the Chinese capital as he had said before China entered the war, so you want Chinese nation to sit idle to be bombed and totally destroyed by US and that's you call the right way for Chinese to act ? Don't be hypocrite, it's OK for you whites to slaughrer people all the way to Chinese captial and Chinese can't take up arms for self-defense ? China just recovered rightfully Chinese reefs or islands in South China sea in clashes with Vietnam, not stealing. All these wars happened long ago, more than 40 years ago. Have China invaded or had war with any countries since more than 40 years ago ? How many countries you Europeans and Americans had invaded and waged wars on and how many millions of innocent people around the world have you whites killed in the last 40 years ? You Europeans don't know the history and facts of South China sea, you should not take side for your ignorance.


Spare us the crocodile tears. The Chinese entry into the Korean War was a war of aggression against the United Nations. China had already gone to war against the UN with its Air Force long before the UN came close to the border.

If the UN forces had invaded China then it might have a case. Starting a preventive war is still a war of aggression.

China attacked India not long ago. Only ignorant people do not recognize this.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

jhungary said:


> It's hard to lose 20k soldiers when Mariupol is defended by a Single Brigade, less than 6000 men (Azov BATTALION is a BATTALION, it's like 4-600 men strong)
> 
> There are no way Ukraine lost 200k troop, 200k with civilian maybe, but 200k Troop consider their total troop number is somewhere around 4--500,000 now, that would be a war breaking lost and if they do, either Russia is so inept not to take advantage on or Ukrainian would have already been defeated, Russian is dumb but not that dumb and Ukrainian is still alive and kicking and fighting continue, so 200k troop loss is a BS.
> 
> Conventional wisdom suggests both side loss 100,000 dead and wounded.


Mariupol alone, where some of the worst fighting has occurred, the city’s mayor has said at least 10,000 people have died








200 More Bodies Found In Mariupol—Ukraine’s Civilian Death Toll Approaches 4,000, UN Reports


Both Ukrainian officials and the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights believe the actual civilian death toll in Ukraine to be much higher.




www.google.com.pk






Real death toll is way higher it can be compared with corona deaths official death toll is not even 20% of actual estimated death toll


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562163150811762688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562184430286000128


MeFishToo said:


> Show us a russian satelite image.
> Russia doesnt shy away from showing drone footage, so why dont they provide satelite images documenting their claims? ..



Russian spy satellites are operated by RosCosmos,





__





Imagery from russian satellites. Russia satellite image


Imagery from russian satellites. Russia satellite image. The Innoter company provides satellite images from Russian satellites (Kanopus-V, Resurs-P, Meteor-M, Aist-2D) for further commercial use




innoter.com













Direct threat: Roscosmos publishes satellite images of where NATO summit will take place


“Ukrainska Pravda” – TUESDAY, 28 JUNE 2022, 13:24




www.pravda.com.ua


----------



## etylo

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Spare us the crocodile tears. The Chinese entry into the Korean War was a war of aggression against the United Nations. China had already gone to war against the UN with its Air Force long before the UN came close to the border.
> 
> If the UN forces had invaded China then it might have a case. Starting a preventive war is still a war of aggression.
> 
> China attacked India not long ago. Only ignorant people do not recognize this.


You can make up you full crap out of nothing, you BS Swedish and European. When did China air force had entered the war long before US led UN army came to the border ? That's the stupidest joke I ever heard about Korea war, China didn't even have an air force long after they entered the Korean war, not until they well pushed the UN army hundreds of KM down south. China only entered the war when UN army was at China's border and was about to march into China. US army had bombed Chinese cities on the border when US very first entered the Korea war. US led UN army's mandate given by the UN was to restore South Korea, not to occupy North Korea to Chinese border, such action was illegal. China entered and fight the Korean war 100% self defence.

As for the Sino-India war, it was India continuously attacked China first and occupied large part of Chinese territories disregarding Chinese warnings, China later just fought back for self defence. The same thing happened in 2020, Indian army attacked Chinese army first and Chinese fought back in self defence.

I see you Europeans are just bunch of shameless liars, will say white is black and black is white at your will. So don't talk to me think you people have highest standards of morals and human rights in the world, that's just BS.

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## The SC




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## etylo

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is exactly what I am talking about. ”Sweden” does not interfere in Chinese internal affairs. Journalists, which represent themselves or possibly a newspaper write stories about whatever seems newsworthy, and China demands that they stop doing that. That is trying to curb Freedom of Speech.
> ”Norway” did not award Dalai Lama the Nobel Peace Prize. The Nobel Committee did that.
> China kidnapping people is not going to gain them good press anywhere.
> The moron representing China was replaced when demands to kick him out rised in volume.
> 
> You are on ignore from now on.


Of course, you Swedish just want special rights in China which is not going to happen. What the Swedish moron tried to sell in HK, China was banned and illegal, period, whether he was a journalist or not. Talk of Freedom of Speech for you Swedish here in HK is just BS and laughable, you violate Chinese law.

I don't give a damn if I am on your ignore list, talking to you is just wasting my time anyway.

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## The SC




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562185249655853058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562185276713275393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562183966777659394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562157597901393922

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1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562210348324646912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562235433882308609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562239996903432192

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2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562196191844401157

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562185249655853058

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562235049944268800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562235146958524416


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## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> at least we didn't take 6 months to roll Taliban over in Afghanistan
> 
> So yes, you can't compare


So was Taliban rolled over? Last I heard they are bavke in power. Lol

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Mariupol alone, where some of the worst fighting has occurred, the city’s mayor has said at least 10,000 *people* have died
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 200 More Bodies Found In Mariupol—Ukraine’s Civilian Death Toll Approaches 4,000, UN Reports
> 
> 
> Both Ukrainian officials and the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights believe the actual civilian death toll in Ukraine to be much higher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Real death toll is way higher it can be compared with corona deaths official death toll is not even 20% of actual estimated death toll


people, not soldier, you were talking about solider, Mariupol was a big city with a pre-war population of 500,000+ assuming 90% of Mariupol is evacuated, you are talking about 100,000 still left in the city. And with the City literally razed to the ground, it's really lucky if only 10,000 people had died.

But then not every one of them were defending Mariupol, most of them are women and children and old people, they were the one that got stuck, there are only 1 Brigade defending Mariupol, that's 12th Marine Brigade, there are some local units (like Azov) but that wouldn't amount to more than 1000, So technically, you would have around 6-7,000 soldier defending Mariupol

As I said, if you also count civilian death, 200k Ukrainian killed are possible, but if you only count military, then it's impossible because AFU only have an estimated strength of at most 500,000 right now, 200,000k is roughly half of the force, give or take, an military unit is labelled combat ineffective if it have 40% casualty, so if Ukrainian lost 50% of their strength, that entire fighting force ceased to exist.

Again, tradition estimation from force regeneration project both side in low 100,000 casualty mark, Ukrainian may have a higher rate. But it would not be that much of a different. Not like they lost 3 times more than the Russian.......Because war usually favor the defender.



Han Patriot said:


> So was Taliban rolled over?


Yes, they remind me where was Talban communication Office in when the American were in Afghanistan? Were they in Afghanistan or were they in Qatar??









Taliban in Qatar - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





But yeah, you are right, I am sure the senior Taliban official went there for the view, not because we kick them out of Afghanistan.

dude, you act like a snag, you want some Tom-Piper with it?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560597269178564614

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562201743168978945


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562121572428701696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562258176204054528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562248159157538816

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Viet

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Mariupol alone, where some of the worst fighting has occurred, the city’s mayor has said at least 10,000 people have died
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 200 More Bodies Found In Mariupol—Ukraine’s Civilian Death Toll Approaches 4,000, UN Reports
> 
> 
> Both Ukrainian officials and the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights believe the actual civilian death toll in Ukraine to be much higher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Real death toll is way higher it can be compared with corona deaths official death toll is not even 20% of actual estimated death toll


Mostly civil casualties
What the Russians doing in Mariupol is terror bombing. Their aim is annihilating the population. No matter soldiers or babies. Is that an exception? No, much seen elsewhere in wars. When judging what Russia has done it is a facist country. Well, people can argue is that ok? In WW2 British bombers raided Hamburg to the ground burning 40,000 people to ashes.






IMAGE SOURCE, BPK | HANS BRUNSWIG
Image caption,
The scale of the destruction caused shock and fear across Germany

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Mostly civil casualties
> What the Russians doing in Mariupol is terror bombing. Their aim is annihilating the population. No matter soldiers or babies. Is that an exception? No, much seen elsewhere in wars. When judging what Russia has done it is a facist country. Well, people can argue is that ok? In WW2 British bombers raided Hamburg to the ground burning 40,000 people to ashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, BPK | HANS BRUNSWIG
> Image caption,
> The scale of the destruction caused shock and fear across Germany



You cannot compare modern war with WW2. Back then people were far more brutal and deliberately targeted civilians. Mariupol is mostly intact. While it is true some buildings are damaged, the scale of damage is minimal compared to WW2, as only a few thousand soldiers from both sides took part in the battle.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562288247308517376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562288972973412352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562298597047246848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562302295404068864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562304153195511808

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russian spy satellites are operated by RosCosmos,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagery from russian satellites. Russia satellite image
> 
> 
> Imagery from russian satellites. Russia satellite image. The Innoter company provides satellite images from Russian satellites (Kanopus-V, Resurs-P, Meteor-M, Aist-2D) for further commercial use
> 
> 
> 
> 
> innoter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Direct threat: Roscosmos publishes satellite images of where NATO summit will take place
> 
> 
> “Ukrainska Pravda” – TUESDAY, 28 JUNE 2022, 13:24
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pravda.com.ua


From one of the few satelites where you may be able to spot something like a vehicle.
But no images from Ukraine. How come?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> From one of the few satelites where you may be able to spot something like a vehicle.
> But no images from Ukraine. How come?



Satellites only work in summer in Ukraine. Too cloudy during winter, spring, fall seasons.


----------



## Nan Yang

AUGUST 21, 2022 BY M. K. BHADRAKUMAR
US taunts Russia to escalate in Ukraine​


_*An UAV hit the roof of the headquarters of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, Sevastopol, Crimea, August 20, 2022 *_​In military terms, the crude, locally assembled drone dropping a country-made bomb or two on unguarded sites in Crimea are at best pin pricks in the big picture of Russia’s special military operation in Ukraine. But it can be profoundly consequential in certain other ways. 

For a start, this escalation has Washington’s approval. A senior Biden administration official told NatSec Daily the US supports strikes on Crimea if Kiev deems them necessary. “We don’t select targets, of course, and everything we’ve provided is for self-defence purposes. Any target they choose to pursue on sovereign Ukrainian soil is by definition self defense,” this person said.

But Washington knows — and Moscow knows — that like any sophistry, this one too is a clever argument but inherently fallacious and deceptive. The New York Times has interpreted the drone attack on Crimea as a challenge to the leadership of President Vladimir Putin. The Times wrote that the Crimea attacks “put domestic political pressure on the Kremlin, with criticism and debate about the war increasingly being unleashed on social media and underscoring that even what the Russian government considers to be Russian territory is not safe.” 

Times claimed that “as images of antiaircraft fire streaking through the blue Crimean sky ricocheted through social media, the visceral reality of war was becoming more and more apparent to Russians — many of whom have rallied behind the Kremlin’s line, hammered home in state media, that the “special military operation” to save Ukraine from Nazi domination is going smoothly and according to plan.” 

The paper quoted a prominent establishment think tanker in Moscow acknowledging that the Crimean attack is a “serious” development insofar as “People are beginning to feel that the war is coming to them.” The Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky claimed in a nationwide address on Saturday, “One can literally feel in the air of Crimea that the occupation there is temporary, and Ukraine is returning.” 

Once again, while Russia is steadily winning the ground war in Ukraine, the US is determined not to lose the information war. In Washington’s reckoning, in this Internet Age, the war is to be ultimately won in the Russian people’s minds. Therefore, this studied escalation by Washington puts Moscow in a dilemma, since if it is unanswered, Zelensky may target the 19-km long Crimean Bridge connecting the Taman Peninsula of Krasnodar in mainland Russia with the Kerch Peninsula of Crimea. 

In fact, it is a near certainty. The point is, the Kerch bridge is “Putin’s bridge” in the Russian people’s consciousness. While formally opening the bridge to car traffic in May 2018, Putin was quoted as telling the workers, “In different historical epochs, even under the tsar priests, people dreamed of building this bridge. Then they returned to this in the 1930s, the 40s, the 50s. And finally, thanks to your work and your talent, the miracle has happened.” 

Therefore, there is no better way to puncture the halo around Putin than by despatching at least a bit of the Kerch bridge to the bottom of the Black Sea. Meanwhile, from the US perspective, Kiev’s drone attacks on Crimea already serve three purposes. 

First, this is meant to be a blow to the Russian morale. Indeed, Putin’s towering popularity within Russia has become an eyesore for the Biden Administration. Putin’s masterly navigation of the Russian economy out of crisis mode is an incredible feat that defied all logic of power in the American calculus — inflation is steadily falling (in contrast with the European countries and the US); the GDP decline is narrowing; foreign reserves are swelling; the current account is on the plus side; and lo and behold, the Biden Administration’s so-called “nuclear option” — Russia’s removal from the SWIFT messaging system — failed to cripple foreign trade. 

Second, both Washington and Kiev are desperately scrambling for “success” stories to distract attention. The Times playing up the story speaks for itself. In reality, Russia’s Donbass offensive has created a new momentum and is steadily grinding the Ukrainian forces. Within the week, Russian forces will have encircled the lynchpin of the Ukrainian defence line, Bakhmut city, which is a communication hub for troop movements and supply logistics in Donbass. Russian forces have reached the city outskirts from the north, east and south. The fall of Bakhmut will be a crushing defeat for Zelensky. 

On the other hand, even after two months after Zelensky promised a “counteroffensive” on Kherson near Crimea, it is nowhere in sight. Even his most ardent votaries in the western media feel let down. To be sure, there is growing disenchantment in Europe. 

The Hungarian PM Viktor Orban, undoubtedly the smartest European politician today (with an economy registering over 6% growth when the rest of the continent is mired in recession), told German magazine Tichys Einblick in an interview last week that this war marked the end of “western superiority.” Interestingly, he named Big Oil as “war profiteers” and singled out that Exxon doubled its profits, Chevron quadrupled, and ConocoPhillips’ profits have shot up manifold. (Of course, all three are American companies.) Orban’s message was clear: America has weakened the EU. This thought must be troubling many a European politician today. 

Third, Washington has thrown down the gauntlet in a measured way. But there is no way the war can be brought into the drawing rooms of the average Americans the way Times says is happening in Russia. Twenty Americans were killed in Kharkiv two days ago in a high-precision Russian missile strike, but there aren’t going to be any body bags returning to Arlington Cemetery; nor does it make headline in the cooperative American media. 

The US plans to go further up on the escalation ladder. Escalation is the Biden Administration’s last chance to stall a Russian victory. The American strategic thinker and academic John Mearsheimer has written that the risk of a disastrous escalation is “substantially greater than the conventional wisdom holds. And given that the consequences of escalation could include a major war in Europe and possibly even nuclear annihilation, there is good reason for extra concern.” 

Moscow’s preference is to avoid any escalation, since the special military operation is achieving results. Whereas, it is the US that is in some visible despair, and in immediate terms, Russia’s plans to hold referendums in Kherson and Zaporozhye in September must be stalled. Herein lies the danger.

The US’ current build-up over Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant points toward a hidden agenda to intervene in the war at some point directly. Kiev’s attempt to arrange a nuclear explosion in Zaporozhye can only be seen in this light. Moscow seems to anticipate such an eventuality.

Defence Minister Sergey Shoigu disclosed yesterday that Russia has begun mass production of Tsirkon hypersonic cruise missiles and is already deploying them. The US lacks the capability to counter Tsirkon, which is estimated to be 11 times faster than Tomahawk with far superior target-penetration characteristics. Shoigu may have given a stark warning that Russia will not be cowed down if there’s a NATO intervention in Ukraine.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Nan Yang said:


> AUGUST 21, 2022 BY M. K. BHADRAKUMAR
> US taunts Russia to escalate in Ukraine​
> 
> 
> _*An UAV hit the roof of the headquarters of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, Sevastopol, Crimea, August 20, 2022 *_​In military terms, the crude, locally assembled drone dropping a country-made bomb or two on unguarded sites in Crimea are at best pin pricks in the big picture of Russia’s special military operation in Ukraine. But it can be profoundly consequential in certain other ways.
> 
> For a start, this escalation has Washington’s approval. A senior Biden administration official told NatSec Daily the US supports strikes on Crimea if Kiev deems them necessary. “We don’t select targets, of course, and everything we’ve provided is for self-defence purposes. Any target they choose to pursue on sovereign Ukrainian soil is by definition self defense,” this person said.
> 
> But Washington knows — and Moscow knows — that like any sophistry, this one too is a clever argument but inherently fallacious and deceptive. The New York Times has interpreted the drone attack on Crimea as a challenge to the leadership of President Vladimir Putin. The Times wrote that the Crimea attacks “put domestic political pressure on the Kremlin, with criticism and debate about the war increasingly being unleashed on social media and underscoring that even what the Russian government considers to be Russian territory is not safe.”
> 
> Times claimed that “as images of antiaircraft fire streaking through the blue Crimean sky ricocheted through social media, the visceral reality of war was becoming more and more apparent to Russians — many of whom have rallied behind the Kremlin’s line, hammered home in state media, that the “special military operation” to save Ukraine from Nazi domination is going smoothly and according to plan.”
> 
> The paper quoted a prominent establishment think tanker in Moscow acknowledging that the Crimean attack is a “serious” development insofar as “People are beginning to feel that the war is coming to them.” The Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky claimed in a nationwide address on Saturday, “One can literally feel in the air of Crimea that the occupation there is temporary, and Ukraine is returning.”
> 
> Once again, while Russia is steadily winning the ground war in Ukraine, the US is determined not to lose the information war. In Washington’s reckoning, in this Internet Age, the war is to be ultimately won in the Russian people’s minds. Therefore, this studied escalation by Washington puts Moscow in a dilemma, since if it is unanswered, Zelensky may target the 19-km long Crimean Bridge connecting the Taman Peninsula of Krasnodar in mainland Russia with the Kerch Peninsula of Crimea.
> 
> In fact, it is a near certainty. The point is, the Kerch bridge is “Putin’s bridge” in the Russian people’s consciousness. While formally opening the bridge to car traffic in May 2018, Putin was quoted as telling the workers, “In different historical epochs, even under the tsar priests, people dreamed of building this bridge. Then they returned to this in the 1930s, the 40s, the 50s. And finally, thanks to your work and your talent, the miracle has happened.”
> 
> Therefore, there is no better way to puncture the halo around Putin than by despatching at least a bit of the Kerch bridge to the bottom of the Black Sea. Meanwhile, from the US perspective, Kiev’s drone attacks on Crimea already serve three purposes.
> 
> First, this is meant to be a blow to the Russian morale. Indeed, Putin’s towering popularity within Russia has become an eyesore for the Biden Administration. Putin’s masterly navigation of the Russian economy out of crisis mode is an incredible feat that defied all logic of power in the American calculus — inflation is steadily falling (in contrast with the European countries and the US); the GDP decline is narrowing; foreign reserves are swelling; the current account is on the plus side; and lo and behold, the Biden Administration’s so-called “nuclear option” — Russia’s removal from the SWIFT messaging system — failed to cripple foreign trade.
> 
> Second, both Washington and Kiev are desperately scrambling for “success” stories to distract attention. The Times playing up the story speaks for itself. In reality, Russia’s Donbass offensive has created a new momentum and is steadily grinding the Ukrainian forces. Within the week, Russian forces will have encircled the lynchpin of the Ukrainian defence line, Bakhmut city, which is a communication hub for troop movements and supply logistics in Donbass. Russian forces have reached the city outskirts from the north, east and south. The fall of Bakhmut will be a crushing defeat for Zelensky.
> 
> On the other hand, even after two months after Zelensky promised a “counteroffensive” on Kherson near Crimea, it is nowhere in sight. Even his most ardent votaries in the western media feel let down. To be sure, there is growing disenchantment in Europe.
> 
> The Hungarian PM Viktor Orban, undoubtedly the smartest European politician today (with an economy registering over 6% growth when the rest of the continent is mired in recession), told German magazine Tichys Einblick in an interview last week that this war marked the end of “western superiority.” Interestingly, he named Big Oil as “war profiteers” and singled out that Exxon doubled its profits, Chevron quadrupled, and ConocoPhillips’ profits have shot up manifold. (Of course, all three are American companies.) Orban’s message was clear: America has weakened the EU. This thought must be troubling many a European politician today.
> 
> Third, Washington has thrown down the gauntlet in a measured way. But there is no way the war can be brought into the drawing rooms of the average Americans the way Times says is happening in Russia. Twenty Americans were killed in Kharkiv two days ago in a high-precision Russian missile strike, but there aren’t going to be any body bags returning to Arlington Cemetery; nor does it make headline in the cooperative American media.
> 
> The US plans to go further up on the escalation ladder. Escalation is the Biden Administration’s last chance to stall a Russian victory. The American strategic thinker and academic John Mearsheimer has written that the risk of a disastrous escalation is “substantially greater than the conventional wisdom holds. And given that the consequences of escalation could include a major war in Europe and possibly even nuclear annihilation, there is good reason for extra concern.”
> 
> Moscow’s preference is to avoid any escalation, since the special military operation is achieving results. Whereas, it is the US that is in some visible despair, and in immediate terms, Russia’s plans to hold referendums in Kherson and Zaporozhye in September must be stalled. Herein lies the danger.
> 
> The US’ current build-up over Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant points toward a hidden agenda to intervene in the war at some point directly. Kiev’s attempt to arrange a nuclear explosion in Zaporozhye can only be seen in this light. Moscow seems to anticipate such an eventuality.
> 
> Defence Minister Sergey Shoigu disclosed yesterday that Russia has begun mass production of Tsirkon hypersonic cruise missiles and is already deploying them. The US lacks the capability to counter Tsirkon, which is estimated to be 11 times faster than Tomahawk with far superior target-penetration characteristics. Shoigu may have given a stark warning that Russia will not be cowed down if there’s a NATO intervention in Ukraine.



Why are Americans so anxious? The war won't start in earnest until next year at least.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562336092132724736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562340769427558400


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562331774553833472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562345890194628608

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

Putin could simply use his normal strategy of telling lies, eg, "Our special military operation has been successful and our victorious troops are returning to Mother Russia"


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## Primus

kingQamaR said:


> Putin could simply use his normal strategy of telling lies, eg, "Our special military operation has been successful and our victorious troops are returning to Mother Russia"


Putin has dug in too deep already with this 'special military operation' which is basically a war. Its gotten to the point where he has to go all out now. He can't just stop at the completion of one objective, (Don bass for example). If he does, he has forced Ukraine into a position where they will be and have already been acquiring very very deadly weaponry en masse, and will also allow them to reform their defensive lines making it harder for the Russians to do another push for Kiev. It was bad enough this year already, it will be worse if he waits.

The Russians have been very....lacking in terms of strategy. It wasn't a smart move to attack.


----------



## kingQamaR

Primus said:


> Putin has dug in too deep already with this 'special military operation' which is basically a war. Its gotten to the point where he has to go all out now. He can't just stop at the completion of one objective, (Don bass for example). If he does, he has forced Ukraine into a position where they will be and have already been acquiring very very deadly weaponry en masse, and will also allow them to reform their defensive lines making it harder for the Russians to do another push for Kiev. It was bad enough this year already, it will be worse if he waits.
> 
> The Russians have been very....lacking in terms of strategy. It wasn't a smart move to attack.



That would be the most honourable thing to do. I still don't see a path to a win for Putin. Carpet bombing a country to submission is not just medieval in its brutality, it guarantees the hatred and resistance of the population against any puppet regime afterwards. How does Putin intend to stabilize such a regime then? By stationing hundreds of thousands of troops? Ukraine is a large country and far more difficult to control, it's not Chechnya. Ukraine and the resistance will continue to get support from the West. Russia will continue to have its economy crippled. The West will never recognize such a regime and will add it to its list of sanctions. The war is already costly for Russia and in combination with the sanctions, the question is how long Russia can actually afford the in vasion and occupation of Ukraine. That may sound horribly technocratic considering the huge loss in human life that this Russian barbarism is causing, but at the end of the day, it is a numbers game.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562368529105657856

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Primus

kingQamaR said:


> That would be the most honourable thing to do. I still don't see a path to a win for Putin. Carpet bombing a country to submission is not just medieval in its brutality, it guarantees the hatred and resistance of the population against any puppet regime afterwards. How does Putin intend to stabilize such a regime then? By stationing hundreds of thousands of troops? Ukraine is a large country and far more difficult to control, it's not Chechnya. Ukraine and the resistance will continue to get support from the West. Russia will continue to have its economy crippled. The West will never recognize such a regime and will add it to its list of sanctions. The war is already costly for Russia and in combination with the sanctions, the question is how long Russia can actually afford the in vasion and occupation of Ukraine. That may sound horribly technocratic considering the huge loss in human life that this Russian barbarism is causing, but at the end of the day, it is a numbers game.


Numbers are on the side of Russia, but as you said, the constant attacks by Russian arty and Air force will create hatred amongst the civilian population ultimately leading to an insurgency. Similar thing happened I Iraq and Afghanistan which lead to some 4000+ KIA for the US alone in Iraq and 2000+KIA in Afghanistan.

Russia has to go all in, or its lost this war. It may gain Donbass, but at the cost of Ukraines military getting much stronger.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

Primus said:


> Numbers are on the side of Russia, but as you said, the constant attacks by Russian arty and Air force will create hatred amongst the civilian population ultimately leading to an insurgency. Similar thing happened I Iraq and Afghanistan which lead to some 4000+ KIA for the US alone in Iraq and 2000+KIA in Afghanistan.
> 
> Russia has to go all in, or its lost this war. It may gain Donbass, but at the cost of Ukraines military getting much stronger.



I have seen hundreds of tanks planes trucks and men destroyed on u tube it might be fake but it looks real Russia is taking a bad beating

He has about 8 weeks before winter weather grinds his army to a standstill.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562405164430106624


kingQamaR said:


> Putin could simply use his normal strategy of telling lies, eg, "Our special military operation has been successful and our victorious troops are returning to Mother Russia"



That's not how it works. Once you pull the string, the arrow will never return.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562401892197711873


----------



## Primus

kingQamaR said:


> I have seen hundreds of tanks planes trucks and men destroyed on u tube it might be fake but it looks real Russia is taking a bad beating
> 
> He has about 8 weeks before winter weather grinds his army to a standstill.


Those videos are most likely real. The Russians have taken very heavy losses, but so have the Ukrainians. Then again, it's Russia. Their military is massive and their military industrial complex is just as big. Such losses can be replaced. The fact they have been griding this war out for 170+ days shows they can take punishment. Which isn't a good thing if you are in NATO.

As for Winter, it's gonna be a very hot winter for both sides. It's gonna get spicy.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Primus said:


> Those videos are most likely real. The Russians have taken very heavy losses, but so have the Ukrainians. Then again, it's Russia. Their military is massive and their military industrial complex is just as big. Such losses can be replaced. The fact they have been griding this war out for 170+ days shows they can take punishment. Which isn't a good thing if you are in NATO.
> 
> As for Winter, it's gonna be a very hot winter for both sides. It's gonna get spicy.



The first both hot and cold winter in Europe for many years to come.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562426054718865408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562425660710170626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562424448674045953


----------



## kingQamaR

Primus said:


> Those videos are most likely real. The Russians have taken very heavy losses, but so have the Ukrainians. Then again, it's Russia. Their military is massive and their military industrial complex is just as big. Such losses can be replaced. The fact they have been griding this war out for 170+ days shows they can take punishment. Which isn't a good thing if you are in NATO.
> 
> As for Winter, it's gonna be a very hot winter for both sides. It's gonna get spicy.



178 days and this 'Super' Power (militarily that is) has not been able to force Ukraine to submit to their will. Imagine that... Putin has no choice but to continue his "special operation". He knows that dictators that lose wars are soon disposed of by their fellow countrymen. So it's win or die for putin now

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> 178 days and this 'Super' Power (militarily that is) has not been able to force Ukraine to submit to their will. Imagine that... Putin has no choice but to continue his "special operation". He knows that dictators that lose wars are soon disposed of by their fellow countrymen. So it's win or die for putin now



Special operation continues until Ukraine's population falls below 10 million and loses combat effectiveness. As Biden said, it's basically genocide at this point. 10 years from now Russia's population falls to 140 million from 147 million and Ukraine's population falls to 9 million from 27 million.

With Russia and Ukraine both weakened as such, they become vassals of China and America, respectively.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562417526277111808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562416109894205440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562445256041594880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562398042074103808


----------



## dBSPL

Bayraktar TB-2 systems, purchased with the donations of the Ukrainian people, are ready for delivery. It has local Ukrainian motifs on it and reads 'People's Banner' in Turkish (Halkın Bayraktarı).

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562410203416592385

Ukraines military gets stronger and stronger. What a massive blunder and humiliation for Russia.

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## Broccoli

Primus said:


> Those videos are most likely real. The Russians have taken very heavy losses, but so have the Ukrainians. Then again, it's Russia. Their military is massive and their military industrial complex is just as big. Such losses can be replaced. The fact they have been griding this war out for 170+ days shows they can take punishment. Which isn't a good thing if you are in NATO.
> 
> As for Winter, it's gonna be a very hot winter for both sides. It's gonna get spicy.



Before war begun Russia had slightly under 3000 modernized tanks in service and now six months later they've lost over 1000 tanks and in total over 5000 AFV's. In fact without modern chips what they cannot get they gotta use much older tanks from their stocks... Ukrainians have begun destroying T-72AV tanks what are from 1970's and only upgrade on those tanks is ERA. 

It's a myth that Russia has endless supplies of tanks.

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## Primus

kingQamaR said:


> 178 days and this 'Super' Power (militarily that is) has not been able to force Ukraine to submit to their will. Imagine that... Putin has no choice but to continue his "special operation". He knows that dictators that lose wars are soon disposed of by their fellow countrymen. So it's win or die for putin now


Well it is some 30+ countries against 1 country. But Russia has been lack luster in its performance. Still, like I said it can take punishment as well as dish it out.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Broccoli said:


> Before war begun Russia had slightly under 3000 modernized tanks in service and now six months later they've lost over 1000 tanks and in total over 5000 AFV's. In fact without modern chips what they cannot get they gotta use much older tanks from their stocks... Ukrainians have begun destroying T-72AV tanks what are from 1970's and only upgrade on those tanks is ERA.
> 
> It's a myth that Russia has endless supplies of tanks.



T-90M has pretty high production rate. About 100 per year. Maybe more.


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## Broccoli

Primus said:


> Well it is some 30+ countries against 1 country. But Russia has been lack luster in its performance. Still, like I said it can take punishment as well as dish it out.



Russia is fighting against one country what gets weapons and support from outside. If west actually send military units into Ukraine, especially air force, Russians would have been defeated long time ago.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dBSPL said:


> Bayraktar TB-2 systems, purchased with the donations of the Ukrainian people, are ready for delivery. It has local Ukrainian motifs on it and reads 'People's Banner' in Turkish (Halkın Bayraktarı).



Mainly paid by Lithuanians and Polish people. They raised tens of millions of USD with crowd funding over the past few months. Bayrakthar sells TB2 at 7 million USD per plane and makes a lot of money in the war.


----------



## Primus

Broccoli said:


> Russia is fighting against one country what gets weapons and support from outside. If west actually send military units into Ukraine, especially air force, Russians would have been defeated long time ago.


Don't be so naive

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RPG-30 and NLAW


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562424022142701568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562424028002152449


Broccoli said:


> Russia is fighting against one country what gets weapons and support from outside. If west actually send military units into Ukraine, especially air force, Russians would have been defeated long time ago.



There is no ifs and buts. On top of that, Western countries have an aging and declining population which is not fit for war. It is highly unlikely Western countries will be able to fight a war again the way their ancestors fought WW1 and WW2.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562443260378767361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562463693451173888


----------



## Vergennes

what air defense doin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562413084395855872


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## dBSPL

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Western countries have an aging and declining population which is not fit for war. It is highly unlikely Western countries will be able to fight a war again the way their ancestors fought WW1 and WW2.



There is something you always skip, Western alliance is a collective force. More specifically, NATO is the military organization with the most detailed and complex coordination capacity ever created in world history. Also, don't be shortsighted by just looking at military capability, you need to focus more on science. Is there any other organization like CERN in the world?

Human resources, or rapid aging is an important problem, but but it is not an insurmountable problem. Some fellows from eastern countries, have a mistake to present this deficiency as an overly large problem.

The East's most skilled workforce still goes west. Your brilliant young which you raised with public funds, are dedicating 40-50 years of his/her life to generating profits for European companies and governments.

Not just the top layer; Immigrants from the east still work at the airports, infrastructure constructions, low-level public works, taxis and restaurants in these countries. The inability to create sufficient production for cheap labor and therefore the reaction of the low- and middle-income segments is related to the sharing of the state's social assistance qualifications. Europe's dilemma is caught between immigrant integration or the automation and artificial intelligence solution of low-income jobs. In this respect, the problem is more political. (edit: also, the easiest way to get permanent residency and citizenship in the USA is to join the military since a century. does the discrimination you suffer prevent Asians from joining the army?)

The riches of the world have flowed here for 200 years. Not only the underground riches of Africa, South America and Asia, but everything valuable and profitable flowed here. The demographic reports that you realize today have been in front of European scientists and policy makers for nearly 50 years. Don't they see what you see?

Two important issues are financial environments and academic capacity. Today, the banks of 8 million people Swiss' banks give loans to the infrastructure construction works or military procurements of 100 million-people countries. The academic publication and citation-gives to other scientific studies of the same 8 million Swiss are double that of many Asian countries of 100 million. Now consider this country as a tiny member of the western alliance and what the collective sum is.

Europe is getting old, yes. But as long as Asia's answer is limited to bearing a child, the balances will not change, only the conditions will change.

Military capacity, political tradition, scientific studies, financial structure; all these are phenomena that produce cumulative accumulation. If you can't catch paradigm breaks, the one who started accumulating 50 years ago will always stay ahead of the one who started accumulating today.

Asia must awaken its collective strength.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> what air defense doin
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562413084395855872



Waste of ammo for nothing. Repaired within days. It's made of concrete. Soviet construction doctrine to counter Western artillery in the event of WW3.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> T-90M has pretty high production rate. About 100 per year. Maybe more.


Where you get the number? 100 tanks per year is very little. That means it Vietnam wants to buy 1,000 tanks then will take 10 years? Putin invades a country with such abysmal production number of tanks? He is really very very very delusional.


----------



## jhungary

Primus said:


> Putin has dug in too deep already with this 'special military operation' which is basically a war. Its gotten to the point where he has to go all out now. He can't just stop at the completion of one objective, (Don bass for example). If he does, he has forced Ukraine into a position where they will be and have already been acquiring very very deadly weaponry en masse, and will also allow them to reform their defensive lines making it harder for the Russians to do another push for Kiev. It was bad enough this year already, it will be worse if he waits.
> 
> The Russians have been very....lacking in terms of strategy. It wasn't a smart move to attack.


The only problem is, he can't go all out........because he can only go all out if he had a mobilisation

He can if Russia is being attacked, but it would have been a VERY hard sell to the people to go all out and mobilise, You need something to rally people for an invasion, 8 years of bombing the separatist and denazifying Ukraine can only go so far, Russian would think this is not our problem and refused mobilisation. And if Putin cannot have the troop influx, there are no all out to him. On the other hand, Ukrainian is tailing on Russian attack and mobilising their own people. 

Putin has lost this war already, there are no foreseeable way even for the Russian to try for Odessa. Let alone Kyiv. At best he can hope for is to get Donbas and not to lose Kherson, which is almost completely isolated by the Ukrainian, and for those of you who still can't tell, Ukrainian is doing what Russian is doing in Sieverodonetsk. And it would take too many casualty for the Russian to achieve that.

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## jhungary

Primus said:


> Don't be so naive


Well, Russia failed to achieve Air Superiority over Ukraine. And Ukraine didn't even have 1/100 the Aerial Capability the NATO had. 

Considering Russian main Mode of Operation is Artillery, Artillery won't work if you do not have Air Superiority, enemy Aerial ISTAR asset will be able to seek out and destroy any artillery piece at will flying 24/7 CAP. The reason why this is not happened now is because Ukraine does not have this capability to fly 24/7 CAP. If you had taken Artillery out of the equation, then what left is just infantry charging.........I wouldn't want to be an Russian infantry if this happen (actually, I wouldn't want to be a Russian infantry now)

If Ukraine have 1/10 of NATO airpower, Russia would probably be defeated already.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Where you get the number? 100 tanks per year is very little. That means it Vietnam wants to buy 1,000 tanks then will take 10 years? Putin invades a country with such abysmal production number of tanks? He is really very very very delusional.



100 T-90M is serious capability. I would take 100 T-90M over 1,000 T-72A any day. Likewise, I would take a single Type 45 destroyer over 10 Type 42 destroyers any day.



jhungary said:


> If Ukraine have 1/10 of NATO airpower, Russia would probably be defeated already.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562481229915881472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562477571669118978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562462445565722624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562461981449547780

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562461881893154816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562461110623543301


Viet said:


> Where you get the number? 100 tanks per year is very little. That means it Vietnam wants to buy 1,000 tanks then will take 10 years? Putin invades a country with such abysmal production number of tanks? He is really very very very delusional.



100 T-90M is more than enough to fight Ukraine. Ukraine has low hundreds T-64 at the start of February. Down to almost nil by now. While it is true Ukraine got 200 T-72 from Poland and Czech, those are no match for 100 T-90M and there is nothing in the pipeline for Ukraine. The US and Germany and France the the UK won't give a single tank to Ukraine.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 100 T-90M is serious capability. I would take 100 T-90M over 1,000 T-72A any day. Likewise, I would take a single Type 45 destroyer over 10 Type 42 destroyers any day.


People don’t see T90M in big number, just few. Besides T90M like other Russian tanks has no chance against modern western antitank missiles. storing ammo in turret probably the dumbest idea ever. Zero protection against Javelin top attack with optical guidance. No laser involved. So useless: T90M built in laser detection system. the tank is blind until it explodes.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> People don’t see T90M in big number, just few. Besides T90M like other Russian tanks has no chance against modern western antitank missiles.



T-90M has laser guided missile range 5 km. It can safely attack from stand off distance. Also, 90% of Allied forces man power is rebels. Russian army is only 10% of man power in Allied forces. Russian army mainly provides air strikes and artillery strikes. That's about it.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> T-90M has laser guided missile range 5 km. It can safely attack from stand off distance. Also, 90% of Allied forces man power is rebels. Russian army is only 10% of man power in Allied forces. Russian army mainly provides air strikes and artillery strikes. That's about it.


Who will win, big size T90M or small size infantryman with Javelin? That’s propaganda shit. Those Donbas separatists are a bunch of low Iq, poorly armed fighters. Without Russia army those bunches would not survive a month.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Who will win, big size T90M or small size infantryman with Javelin? That’s propaganda shit. Those Donbas separatists are a bunch of low Iq, poorly armed fighters. Without Russia army those bunches would not survive a month.



Javelin isn't invulnerable to attack. They are quite easily spotted by drones and killed by long distance snipers. In order for Javelin to hit T-90M it has to get within 2 km. Not gonna be easy with long range snipers operating 1 to 2 km ahead of T-90M.


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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> T-90M has pretty high production rate. About 100 per year. Maybe more.



They have bern upgrading old tsnks for decades. Very few new tanks are being built, and facilities are not geared for war conditions. So no, losses will not be replaced any day soon. Tanks in storage seem to have major maintenance issues, due to neglect. The result if s corrupt government.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562488357069787137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562467526810148865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562467528705597442


kingQamaR said:


> They have bern upgrading old tsnks for decades. Very few new tanks are being built, and facilities are not geared for war conditions. So no, losses will not be replaced any day soon. Tanks in storage seem to have major maintenance issues, due to neglect. The result if s corrupt government.



Corruption was particularly bad during the Gorbachev and Yeltsin years but Putin has been getting rid of that over the past few decades and as such Russia is now far more efficient than the 80s and 90s.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562486159556886530

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562486159556886530



These don't exist and need to be manufactured which means no delivery until 2024.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562446291585576960


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562483001987960836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562483008128847872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562498429548625924

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562491258370945024

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562518061370191875

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562141910378201089

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562141910378201089


Would love to the see the Leo2a5 or 2a6 in action. That thing is a beast


----------



## The SC




----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562488357069787137
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562467526810148865
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562467528705597442
> 
> 
> Corruption was particularly bad during the Gorbachev and Yeltsin years but Putin has been getting rid of that over the past few decades and as such Russia is now far more efficient than the 80s and 90s.


Yeltsin was worse of the worst. He lowered Russian men life expectancy to 60y. Putin raised to 68y (German men 78y). However with this war against Ukraine Putin undoes everything he will lower to 60y again. That’s the problem if you want war. life is shortened.


----------



## The SC




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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562497704974258176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562513106869551106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562507337541513216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562504482675912705


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562525845285388288


----------



## The SC

The Russian army destroyed the American HARM missile store base and the 831st Air Brigade with KH_22 missiles..

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Yeltsin was worse of the worst. He lowered Russian men life expectancy to 60y. Putin raised to 68y (German men 78y). However with this war against Ukraine Putin undoes everything he will lower to 60y again. That’s the problem if you want war. life is shortened.



The longer the lifespan, the older the population, the less vibrant the society, the less fit for combat. The shorter the lifespan, the younger the population, the more vibrant the society, the more fit for combat. Compare Afghanistan with Japan for example.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562516004235644929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562522430203392002

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562508025398980608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562529608481718272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562534535153487872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562555494191210496

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562519912886636545


----------



## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Satellites only work in summer in Ukraine. Too cloudy during winter, spring, fall seasons.


FYI sommer is almost over. Lets pretend satelites only work in summer in Ukraine (and the western countries cant provide targets for Ukraine for the next 9 months 🙄).
How does that prevent Russia from providing evidence of all its claims about destroying NATO equipment entering Ukraine this summer? You claim Russia is already covering all of Ukraine with spy satelites. I know its pure fantasy, but wouldnt it just prove your point if Russia actually provided some satelite images of those targets before and after impact of those so called precision guided munition Russia is using?

Check this footage of precision guided munition:




That counter battery radar and crew just retired.


----------



## Type59

Broccoli said:


> Before war begun Russia had slightly under 3000 modernized tanks in service and now six months later they've lost over 1000 tanks and in total over 5000 AFV's. In fact without modern chips what they cannot get they gotta use much older tanks from their stocks... Ukrainians have begun destroying T-72AV tanks what are from 1970's and only upgrade on those tanks is ERA.
> 
> It's a myth that Russia has endless supplies of tanks.



Biggest myth is it's impossible to get semiconductors. The Russians might not be bright, but I expect them have stockpiled some components before the war. Since first week of conflict, certain people were saying they ran out, which would only happen, if they only bought components the day they planned to fit them.

Second most obvious reason, people assume military vehicles need modern chips, nope. PGMs appeared during Cold War, most military technology is many years out of date. Soviet Anti tank missiles AT 2, was effective against Israelis in 1973 war and their 1960s technology. Modern example Tesla was able to beat the semiconductor shortage that hobbled its rivals....



> Tesla CEO Elon Musk noted that the automaker has been able to use substitutes for the chips that are difficult or impossible to acquire. According to VW Group CEO Herbert Diess, Tesla can spend just a few weeks rewriting software and then switch to a new chip.











How Did Tesla Overcome 'Chip Shortage' While Rivals Struggled


While most automakers posted quarterly and annual sales numbers that are exponentially below past figures, Tesla's production soared amid the supply shortage.




insideevs.com


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562552113535692800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562541741277712385


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Type59 said:


> Biggest myth is it's impossible to get semiconductors. The Russians might not be bright, but I expect them have stockpiled some components before the war.



For military purpose it is not a problem. Military hardware use a number of computers, each with its own CPU. They do make some civilian CPU, but quantity is insufficient and may need Chinese foundries like SMIC to supply additional quantities after Taiwan banned CPU production for Russia. 



https://prog.world/inside-the-russian-processor-baikal-m/


----------



## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562541741277712385


The russians telling us the objectives in retrospect as if its going to plan. Not much different from them firing salvos of what ever in the direction of Ukraine claiming every place of impact was a “NAZI” hide out.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562457409263915010

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562569320349450240


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562385303570190336


----------



## jhungary

Type59 said:


> Biggest myth is it's impossible to get semiconductors. The Russians might not be bright, but I expect them have stockpiled some components before the war. Since first week of conflict, certain people were saying they ran out, which would only happen, if they only bought components the day they planned to fit them.
> 
> Second most obvious reason, people assume military vehicles need modern chips, nope. PGMs appeared during Cold War, most military technology is many years out of date. Soviet Anti tank missiles AT 2, was effective against Israelis in 1973 war and their 1960s technology. Modern example Tesla was able to beat the semiconductor shortage that hobbled its rivals....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Did Tesla Overcome 'Chip Shortage' While Rivals Struggled
> 
> 
> While most automakers posted quarterly and annual sales numbers that are exponentially below past figures, Tesla's production soared amid the supply shortage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> insideevs.com


Depends on what semi-conductor you are talking about.

There are specific and non-specific. It's one thing you want to stockpile but the other thing is whether or not your supplier have the capability to supply you so you can stockpile it.

For non-Specific semi-conductor (like a normal directional gate on any commercial appliance) that probably you can do, but for specific semi-conductor (an IC designed for specific function) that may not be able to pull off. That's because there are production capacity and there aren't many companies producing them, and they don't just supply you, they have to supply everybody. Making stockpiling these IC a lot harder, if at all possible.

You don't need to look far, just look at why we have enough IC to power like TV or Coffee Machine, but at the same time we don't have enough IC to power cars or PS5 (Oh PS5, when can I have one....) That's because there are about 76 company supply Samsung IC for their TV, there are only 2 supplier who is supplying Sony IC for their PS5. And then you need to account for COVID shutdown.

It can be done with Tesla does not mean it can be done in Military Hardware, first of all, what Tesla is doing is basically reprograming Programable chips. It takes time to do that, and you also need to have a big supply of programable chips. The biggest maker currently is Intel, second biggest is TMSC and third biggest maker is Qualcomm, all are able to supply Tesla with Programable Chips, but all were sanctioning Russia. 

Second, there are a lot more chips used in military article than a car. A missile system has upward to 100,000 digital components, while a car, even for Tesla wouldn't have 1/10 of that.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562545454868754437

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562584195880620034

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562579542249598978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562579542249598978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562579542249598978

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562579542249598978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562579542249598978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562579542249598978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562579542249598978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562590921320894466


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562477571669118978

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> After Putin die of old age, the next Russian president continue the war. No more money. Then Russia print money like the US does. Print lots of money.
> 
> 
> 
> 3 billion is too little. 3 trillion is more like it.


Just stop, it’s pure stupidity at this point


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Special operation continues until Ukraine's population falls below 10 million and loses combat effectiveness. As Biden said, it's basically genocide at this point. 10 years from now Russia's population falls to 140 million from 147 million and Ukraine's population falls to 9 million from 27 million.
> 
> With Russia and Ukraine both weakened as such, they become vassals of China and America, respectively.


ah yes the man with the crystal ball 🙄



Primus said:


> Don't be so naive


Tell me one other countries forces who are actively fighting in Ukraine and I mean a battalion worth, not some volunteers? I’ll wait

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> ah yes the man with the crystal ball 🙄



Anyone who thinks the war ends within 100 years is just dumb.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Type59

jhungary said:


> Depends on what semi-conductor you are talking about.
> 
> There are specific and non-specific. It's one thing you want to stockpile but the other thing is whether or not your supplier have the capability to supply you so you can stockpile it.
> 
> For non-Specific semi-conductor (like a normal directional gate on any commercial appliance) that probably you can do, but for specific semi-conductor (an IC designed for specific function) that may not be able to pull off. That's because there are production capacity and there aren't many companies producing them, and they don't just supply you, they have to supply everybody. Making stockpiling these IC a lot harder, if at all possible.
> 
> You don't need to look far, just look at why we have enough IC to power like TV or Coffee Machine, but at the same time we don't have enough IC to power cars or PS5 (Oh PS5, when can I have one....) That's because there are about 76 company supply Samsung IC for their TV, there are only 2 supplier who is supplying Sony IC for their PS5. And then you need to account for COVID shutdown.
> 
> It can be done with Tesla does not mean it can be done in Military Hardware, first of all, what Tesla is doing is basically reprograming Programable chips. It takes time to do that, and you also need to have a big supply of programable chips. The biggest maker currently is Intel, second biggest is TMSC and third biggest maker is Qualcomm, all are able to supply Tesla with Programable Chips, but all were sanctioning Russia.
> 
> Second


Time will tell on how effective the sanctions impact Russian weapon production. All I am stating, is Russia only needs mediocre chips. Even technology on par with PS1 is useful because it's proven technology.






NASA uses CPU from the original PlayStation in a probe sent to Pluto


The MIPS R3000 CPU that powered the original PlayStation has been 'radiation hardened' by NASA, sent in a probe to Pluto.




www.tweaktown.com


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> RPG-30 and NLAW
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562424022142701568
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562424028002152449
> 
> 
> There is no ifs and buts. On top of that, Western countries have an aging and declining population which is not fit for war. It is highly unlikely Western countries will be able to fight a war again the way their ancestors fought WW1 and WW2.


Absolutely correct. But Russia is not multiplying like rabbits: its fertility ratio is 1.55, much less than 2.1 needed to sustain population. So its going down the same population reduction trajectory as its European adversaries. Rate of population decline (and this is moscow times reporting: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/07/29/russias-population-decline-hits-record-rate-a78437) has gone by 3x in the last 2 years.

The one advantage that the Western Countries have is the desire of immigrants from Asia/Africa to move there to offset some of the decline. Even the suffering Yemenis won't want to move to Russia voluntarily.



Type59 said:


> Biggest myth is it's impossible to get semiconductors. The Russians might not be bright, but I expect them have stockpiled some components before the war. Since first week of conflict, certain people were saying they ran out, which would only happen, if they only bought components the day they planned to fit them.
> 
> Second most obvious reason, people assume military vehicles need modern chips, nope. PGMs appeared during Cold War, most military technology is many years out of date. Soviet Anti tank missiles AT 2, was effective against Israelis in 1973 war and their 1960s technology. Modern example Tesla was able to beat the semiconductor shortage that hobbled its rivals....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Did Tesla Overcome 'Chip Shortage' While Rivals Struggled
> 
> 
> While most automakers posted quarterly and annual sales numbers that are exponentially below past figures, Tesla's production soared amid the supply shortage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> insideevs.com


Its very likely that with some foresight, today's chips may have been forward purchased and there is some supply to address today.

But microprocessors are subject to speed/cost 'Moore's Law': the ability to make faster and faster chips. Building new chips that are smaller and faster requires sophisticated equipment. Lithograph machines that allow 7nm and smaller ones to be made using UEV extreme ultra-violet techniques. That production chain is all controlled by western suppliers. Russia aside, even China is now restricted from receiving these starting this year. 

So in 6months to a year this won't matter much. But in 3-4 years when the faster processing speed was needed for the next generation air defense or stealth fighter when the western adversary has faster processing for its AI algorithms, than the pain will be more pronounced. Imagine using your iPad from 6 years to do your work/entertainment apps: you can feel the pain ( I have an older one that I use just to experience the pain and then I shut it).


----------



## aviator_fan

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562497704974258176
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562513106869551106
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562507337541513216
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562504482675912705


Hopefully somebody in russia is doing better math: each HIMARS round is $150K. And disrupting supply lines even for a week is worth it. And what happens when bridge is repaired: more artillery rounds at the ammo dump to destroy.

Russia is putting S300 rounds against buildings that have no military value and cost more than the HIMARS round

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562545454868754437
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562584195880620034
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562579542249598978
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562579542249598978
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562579542249598978


They don’t understand how sanctions work. In the case of diamonds the west stopping buying will push Russia deeper into dependency of India and other buyers. The fewer buyers the lower the price. The diamonds will become cheaper. Russia gets less money on selling diamonds.

The same effect on oil.
The west buys less or not direct the Russians are forced to sell 30 percent cheaper than market price.

2/3 of Russia gov revenue come from selling oil, gas. Less money means Russia will sink deeper into trouble.


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562385303570190336


Just wait. Ukraine will receive the most modern air defense system Germany produces in the coming weeks.


----------



## Ich

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Anyone who thinks the war ends within 100 years is just dumb.



Why not? It is already over 100 years running.


----------



## HorusRa

lmao

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562481229915881472
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562477571669118978
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562462445565722624
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562461981449547780
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562461881893154816
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562461110623543301
> 
> 
> 100 T-90M is more than enough to fight Ukraine. Ukraine has low hundreds T-64 at the start of February. Down to almost nil by now. While it is true Ukraine got 200 T-72 from Poland and Czech, those are no match for 100 T-90M and there is nothing in the pipeline for Ukraine. The US and Germany and France the the UK won't give a single tank to Ukraine.


Every post of yours is filled with bs, once again please stop. 
When you can’t argue you just resort to the above or change the subject completely.
Are you older than or just lack simple debating abilities?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Corruption was particularly bad during the Gorbachev and Yeltsin years but Putin has been getting rid of that over the past few decades and as such Russia is now far more efficient than the 80s and 90s.


Once again, Putin has been getting rid of corruption 
🤣 
You’re a clown 🤡


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562688212145152000





🖍🇷🇺🇺🇦 The fire trap around Avdiivka is our art in support of a special military operation

Satellite city 
Avdiivka is adjacent to the residential quarters of the capital 
Donetsk and
Yasinovataya from the north.

Since the APU dug in the locality for all eight years, an echeloned defense with powerful pillboxes and shelters was created on the outskirts of the city, in industrial zones, along the Donetsk Ring Road and the Donetsk — Konstantinovka road.

Both from Avdiivka itself and the surrounding positions, continuous shelling of the cities of the Donetsk agglomeration is conducted: 
Donetsk, 
Yasinovataya and 
Makeyevka.

Taking the Avdiivka defense hub head-on seems impossible without a large number of human casualties on the part of the Allied forces. Therefore, the tactics of methodical artillery destruction of enemy positions with maximum damage to manpower and destruction of strong points of the fort


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

⚡️Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine 

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

💥High-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces have hit 5 combat aircraft of Ukrainian Air Force at Mirgorod military airfield in Poltava Region. 1 Su-27 and 1 Su-24 have been destroyed. Another 2 Su-27s and 1 Su-24 suffered critical damage. The enemy's casualties in manpower were up to 30 Nationalists.

💥High-precision strike on Dnepr military airfield in Dnepropetrovsk Region has destroyed 3 aircraft of Ukrainian Air Force.

💥High-precision strike of the Russian Aerospace Forces near Novyi Bug, Nikolaev Region, has destroyed command post of Kakhovka grouping of Ukrainian troops. The attacks have resulted in the destraction of up to 64 nationalists and 7 units of military equipment.

💥Iskander missile have hit a military train at Chaplino railway station in Dnepropetrovsk Region, destroying over 200 AFU servicemen reserve and 10 units of military equipment on their way to Donbass war zone.

💥High-precision strikes continue against Ukrainian military-industrial complex facilities that repair weapons and military equipment for Ukrainian troops.

💥High-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces have destroyed the workshops of armoured weapons and multiple rocket launchers repair facility in Shepetovka, Khmel'nitskyi Region.

▫️In Zaporozhye, the production buildings of Iskra plant, where air defence and counter-battery radar stations are being repaired, have been hit. The production buildings of MigRemont aircraft repair plant, which was used to restore aircraft of Ukrainian Air Force, have been also destroyed.

💥Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery strikes continue against military facilities in Ukraine.

▫️7 AFU command posts have been hit near Velikomikhailovka in Dnepropetrovsk Region, Nikolaev city, Artemovsk, Pereezhnoye, Kaleniki, Soledar in Donetsk People's Republic and Poltava in Zaporozhye Region, as well as 149 areas of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment concentration.

▫️4 ammunition depots near Gulyaipole in Zaporozhye Region, Krasnaya Gora in Donetsk People's Republic, Zmiyev in Kharkov Region, Zhovtnevoye in Nikolaev Region and a fuel storage facility for military equipment near Golitsynovo in Nikolaev Region have been destroyed.

💥In course of counter-battery warfare, 2 platoons of Grad multiple-launch rocket systems near Artemovskoye and Sukhaya Balka and 3 platoons of D-30 howitzers at firing positions in Novgorodskoye, Veseloe and Evgenovka Donetsk People's Republic have been suppressed.

💥Russian air defence means have shot down 5 unmanned aerial vehicles near Kamenka in Kharkov Region, Urozhainoye, Vasilevka, Zelenyi Gai in Donetsk People's Republic and Kamysh Zarya in Zaporozhye Region.

▫️In addition, 19 shells of HIMARS multiple-launch rocket system have been intercepted near Kakhovskaya HPP, Kherson and Donetsk cities.

📊In total, 273 Ukrainian airplanes and 148 helicopters, 1,808 unmanned aerial vehicles, 369 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4,384 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 819 multiple launch rocket systems, 3,340 field artillery and mortars, as well as 5,048 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

❗️Ukrainian troops continue shelling of Zaporozhye NPP and Energodar city.

▫️During the day, Ukrainian artillery have launched 7 large-calibre artillery strikes against NPP area. The shelling was carried out from Ukrainian troops' firing positions near Nikopol', Marganets, Vyshetarasovka and Chervonogrigorovka, located on the opposite bank of Kakhovka reservoir.

▫️Russian Armed Forces artillery return fire have suppressed enemy firepower.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #report
@mod_russia_en

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562713598220443649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562715309273858048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562759746746167296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562752948769529857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562742182842314754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562734324906045446


aviator_fan said:


> Hopefully somebody in russia is doing better math: each HIMARS round is $150K. And disrupting supply lines even for a week is worth it. And what happens when bridge is repaired: more artillery rounds at the ammo dump to destroy.
> 
> Russia is putting S300 rounds against buildings that have no military value and cost more than the HIMARS round



No way GMRLS rocket is only 150 grand. I think more than that.


----------



## DF41

https://****/EurasianChoice/18886

_**** = t dot me_

















freedom of speech, but you must think and speak in approved way

















Google to roll out anti-disinformation campaign in some EU countries - Rueters
"Google's Jigsaw subsidiary will launch a campaign next week to tackle disinformation in Poland, Slovakia and the Czech Republic about Ukrainian refugees based on research by psychologists at two British universities."...
Scientists from the universities of Cambridge and Bristol have created 90-second videos designed to "inoculate" people from harmful content in social networks.
"We're thinking of this as a pilot, so there's absolutely no reason why this approach can't be scaled to other countries," Beth Goldberg, Jigsaw's head of research said.
The videos, which will be posted on YouTube are designed to help people, identify emotional manipulation and fake news headlines. In other words, a multinational ideologically driven mega corporation will itself conduct disinformation by deliberately disseminating misinformation. The campaign will last one month.


----------



## Viet

Putin just signs a decree.

Russia military will increase to 2 million men and women by next year 2023. The fighting troop will increase by at least 100,000.

Ukraine meanwhile plans to bring Putin before international tribunal.









Russland-Ukraine-News am Donnerstag: Putin will Armee um mehr als 100.000 Soldaten aufstocken


Der Kremlchef hat offenbar ein Dekret unterzeichnet, um Moskaus Truppenstärke nachhaltig zu erhöhen. Und: Die Ukraine will Putin vor ein internationales Tribunal stellen. Die News.




www.spiegel.de


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562774788686299143

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562778705482911745


Viet said:


> Putin just signs a decree.
> 
> Russia military will increase to 2 million men and women by next year 2023. The fighting troop will increase by at least 100,000.
> 
> Ukraine meanwhile plans to bring Putin before international tribunal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russland-Ukraine-News am Donnerstag: Putin will Armee um mehr als 100.000 Soldaten aufstocken
> 
> 
> Der Kremlchef hat offenbar ein Dekret unterzeichnet, um Moskaus Truppenstärke nachhaltig zu erhöhen. Und: Die Ukraine will Putin vor ein internationales Tribunal stellen. Die News.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de



Kiev government has committed crimes against humanity when it started shelling Donbas civilians in 2014 right after Euro Maidan. If anything, Putin bring Kiev to international tribunal. UN Charter legalizes military action if the purpose is to protect civilians from brutal regimes.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Type59 said:


> Time will tell on how effective the sanctions impact Russian weapon production. All I am stating, is Russia only needs mediocre chips. Even technology on par with PS1 is useful because it's proven technology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NASA uses CPU from the original PlayStation in a probe sent to Pluto
> 
> 
> The MIPS R3000 CPU that powered the original PlayStation has been 'radiation hardened' by NASA, sent in a probe to Pluto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tweaktown.com


If you have even a standard microprocessor, it may take years to get the S/W ported to another similar microprocessor. You also have to redesign all the circuit boards. Then you run into problems even with discrete parts like capacitors.
Not a lot of companies make miniature capacitors forcing use of much larger stuff, and then the result may not fit mechanically.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562803157998387203


----------



## Type59

aviator_fan said:


> Absolutely correct. But Russia is not multiplying like rabbits: its fertility ratio is 1.55, much less than 2.1 needed to sustain population. So its going down the same population reduction trajectory as its European adversaries. Rate of population decline (and this is moscow times reporting: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/07/29/russias-population-decline-hits-record-rate-a78437) has gone by 3x in the last 2 years.
> 
> The one advantage that the Western Countries have is the desire of immigrants from Asia/Africa to move there to offset some of the decline. Even the suffering Yemenis won't want to move to Russia voluntarily.
> 
> 
> Its very likely that with some foresight, today's chips may have been forward purchased and there is some supply to address today.
> 
> But microprocessors are subject to speed/cost 'Moore's Law': the ability to make faster and faster chips. Building new chips that are smaller and faster requires sophisticated equipment. Lithograph machines that allow 7nm and smaller ones to be made using UEV extreme ultra-violet techniques. That production chain is all controlled by western suppliers. Russia aside, even China is now restricted from receiving these starting this year.
> 
> So in 6months to a year this won't matter much. But in 3-4 years when the faster processing speed was needed for the next generation air defense or stealth fighter when the western adversary has faster processing for its AI algorithms, than the pain will be more pronounced. Imagine using your iPad from 6 years to do your work/entertainment apps: you can feel the pain ( I have an older one that I use just to experience the pain and then I shut it).



The point I am making military technology, even US weapons, rely on older technology. For consumer purposes this technology is obsolete, but for military they don't need the latest chips.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562826185452945412

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562810237018460161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562832939930464260


----------



## Primus

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562826185452945412
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562810237018460161
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562832939930464260


Holy shit that must be terrifying. Death is literally right next to you, and all you can do is look on, as it claims those that fought besides you.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562774788686299143
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562778705482911745
> 
> 
> Kiev government has committed crimes against humanity when it started shelling Donbas civilians in 2014 right after Euro Maidan. If anything, Putin bring Kiev to international tribunal. UN Charter legalizes military action if the purpose is to protect civilians from brutal regimes.


What humanity? They are militant separatists, not Red Cross. In many places China, Russia they will be shot and asked later. Why you don’t complain there? I can understand reactions many countries in Europe consider Russians as fifth column. They want to ban all Russians.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562829491843796993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562837950660231170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562837966262640641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562835470132072456


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562806267739279362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562796438353891328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562798302562697223

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562795148744208384


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562769482346422273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562767970920648705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562864915731591168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562870294548582400


----------



## The SC

*Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on Thursday to increase the size of the Russian armed forces from 1.9 to 2.04 million, *RIA Novosti news agency reported.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562765507085799424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562751813509492739

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562725996268175360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562728048008765445


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562519912886636545


Look vintage planes , no computer system installed for navigation using mobile fone for locating targets


----------



## The SC




----------



## The SC




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562880515870302210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562920642089041920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562919781254266880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562914067307794432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562909609878519817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562906803683221504


----------



## oberschlesier

the gas EU reserves are right now at 78.3% and still growing: https://agsi.gie.eu/
German economy did not suffer a recesion in Q2, even with the gas sanctions introduced by the Russian side.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562924106034585600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562889397980512257


----------



## 925boy

Broccoli said:


> Before war begun Russia had slightly under 3000 modernized tanks in service and now six months later they've lost over 1000 tanks and in total over 5000 AFV's. In fact without modern chips what they cannot get they gotta use much older tanks from their stocks... Ukrainians have begun destroying T-72AV tanks what are from 1970's and only upgrade on those tanks is ERA.
> 
> It's a myth that Russia has endless supplies of tanks.


THis is all hocus pocus, cuz at the end of the day, if the Russian army is that broken down, WHY DOESNT NATO ENTER the conflict? Proof of the pudding is in the eating - NATO and EU still have no stomach for a war against Russia, EVEN WITH so much less modern tanks like you've pointed out, so your point isnt really relevant to the conflict - Russia is sstill a military beast no one wants to fight directly, including US.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

925boy said:


> THis is all hocus pocus, cuz at the end of the day, if the Russian army is that broken down, WHY DOESNT NATO ENTER the conflict? Proof of the pudding is in the eating - NATO and EU still have no stomach for a war against Russia, EVEN WITH so much less modern tanks like you've pointed out, so your point isnt really relevant to the conflict - Russia is sstill a military beast no one wants to fight directly, including US.


It`s not a Russia - NATO conflict, but Russia - Ukraine.
Even for a far featched geostrategic reason, why NATO would enter the conflict ? Ukraine is defending it self good enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> It`s not a Russia - NATO conflict, but Russia - Ukraine.
> Even for a far featched geostrategic reason, why NATO would enter the conflict ? Ukraine is defending it self good enough.



It is proxy war between China and America.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562940965853151232


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562645157253902338


----------



## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It is proxy war between China and America.


No. It`s a Russia - Ukraine conflict, where UKR is helped a lot due to the proximity to the EU.
China is not really helping Russia... more likely it`s using this situation as a leverage to reach a deal with the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562361031946833920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562361525717057536

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> THis is all hocus pocus, cuz at the end of the day, if the Russian army is that broken down, WHY DOESNT NATO ENTER the conflict? Proof of the pudding is in the eating - NATO and EU still have no stomach for a war against Russia, EVEN WITH so much less modern tanks like you've pointed out, so your point isnt really relevant to the conflict - Russia is sstill a military beast no one wants to fight directly, including US.


Lol come on you can’t believe that. Russia has shown itself to be a paper bear. If you can’t admit that after 6 months of them losing more troops than the us lost in 20 year in the Middle East you’re blind.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Russia hasn’t moved for almost 2 months now. Their offensive capability looks finished.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562893243183820800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562783552877383680

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562724597308346368
Ukrainian train destroyed by Russian missile attack. Roughly 200 Ukrainian troops were reported to have been killed. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562870517329444867

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Sad Sad:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562799482458087425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562799476435480577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562890626940579840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562864523144744960


F-22Raptor said:


> Russia hasn’t moved for almost 2 months now. Their offensive capability looks finished.



It's summer. Too hot to fight.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> THis is all hocus pocus, cuz at the end of the day, if the Russian army is that broken down, WHY DOESNT NATO ENTER the conflict? Proof of the pudding is in the eating - NATO and EU still have no stomach for a war against Russia, EVEN WITH so much less modern tanks like you've pointed out, so your point isnt really relevant to the conflict - Russia is sstill a military beast no one wants to fight directly, including US.


Why enter a conflict overtly when you can have somebody fight it and all you provide is weapons. Russia should have found a proxy for Ukraine something bigger than Wagner.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> No. It`s a Russia - Ukraine conflict, where UKR is helped a lot due to the proximity to the EU.
> China is not really helping Russia... more likely it`s using this situation as a leverage to reach a deal with the US.



Russia is a Chinese vassal. Ukraine is an American vassal. Makes sense. China has 4 times the population of America. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. The ratios are the same.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## aviator_fan

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia hasn’t moved for almost 2 months now. Their offensive capability looks finished.


Hardly. Putin just ordered army size to increase. His next order will be to have women have 5 kids to offset its declining population. In 30 years you will be regretting what you just said.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562645157253902338



Waste of ammo for nothing.



aviator_fan said:


> Hardly. Putin just ordered army size to increase. His next order will be to have women have 5 kids to offset its declining population. In 30 years you will be regretting what you just said.



War ramps up birth rate. Every time a country has war, population increases fast. This is human biology.


----------



## aviator_fan

oberschlesier said:


> the gas EU reserves are right now at 78.3% and still growing: https://agsi.gie.eu/
> German economy did not suffer a recesion in Q2, even with the gas sanctions introduced by the Russian side.


LNG from US and Qatar. When their own ship terminal is completed next year, this will be closer to 100% (most gas is now coming via other places like Spain because of lack of LNG terminals across Europe)


----------



## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> ⚡️Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine
> 
> ▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.
> 
> 💥High-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces have hit 5 combat aircraft of Ukrainian Air Force at Mirgorod military airfield in Poltava Region. 1 Su-27 and 1 Su-24 have been destroyed. Another 2 Su-27s and 1 Su-24 suffered critical damage. The enemy's casualties in manpower were up to 30 Nationalists.
> 
> 💥High-precision strike on Dnepr military airfield in Dnepropetrovsk Region has destroyed 3 aircraft of Ukrainian Air Force.
> 
> 💥High-precision strike of the Russian Aerospace Forces near Novyi Bug, Nikolaev Region, has destroyed command post of Kakhovka grouping of Ukrainian troops. The attacks have resulted in the destraction of up to 64 nationalists and 7 units of military equipment.
> 
> 💥Iskander missile have hit a military train at Chaplino railway station in Dnepropetrovsk Region, destroying over 200 AFU servicemen reserve and 10 units of military equipment on their way to Donbass war zone.
> 
> 💥High-precision strikes continue against Ukrainian military-industrial complex facilities that repair weapons and military equipment for Ukrainian troops.
> 
> 💥High-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces have destroyed the workshops of armoured weapons and multiple rocket launchers repair facility in Shepetovka, Khmel'nitskyi Region.
> 
> ▫️In Zaporozhye, the production buildings of Iskra plant, where air defence and counter-battery radar stations are being repaired, have been hit. The production buildings of MigRemont aircraft repair plant, which was used to restore aircraft of Ukrainian Air Force, have been also destroyed.
> 
> 💥Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery strikes continue against military facilities in Ukraine.
> 
> ▫️7 AFU command posts have been hit near Velikomikhailovka in Dnepropetrovsk Region, Nikolaev city, Artemovsk, Pereezhnoye, Kaleniki, Soledar in Donetsk People's Republic and Poltava in Zaporozhye Region, as well as 149 areas of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment concentration.
> 
> ▫️4 ammunition depots near Gulyaipole in Zaporozhye Region, Krasnaya Gora in Donetsk People's Republic, Zmiyev in Kharkov Region, Zhovtnevoye in Nikolaev Region and a fuel storage facility for military equipment near Golitsynovo in Nikolaev Region have been destroyed.
> 
> 💥In course of counter-battery warfare, 2 platoons of Grad multiple-launch rocket systems near Artemovskoye and Sukhaya Balka and 3 platoons of D-30 howitzers at firing positions in Novgorodskoye, Veseloe and Evgenovka Donetsk People's Republic have been suppressed.
> 
> 💥Russian air defence means have shot down 5 unmanned aerial vehicles near Kamenka in Kharkov Region, Urozhainoye, Vasilevka, Zelenyi Gai in Donetsk People's Republic and Kamysh Zarya in Zaporozhye Region.
> 
> ▫️In addition, 19 shells of HIMARS multiple-launch rocket system have been intercepted near Kakhovskaya HPP, Kherson and Donetsk cities.
> 
> 📊In total, 273 Ukrainian airplanes and 148 helicopters, 1,808 unmanned aerial vehicles, 369 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4,384 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 819 multiple launch rocket systems, 3,340 field artillery and mortars, as well as 5,048 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.
> 
> ❗️Ukrainian troops continue shelling of Zaporozhye NPP and Energodar city.
> 
> ▫️During the day, Ukrainian artillery have launched 7 large-calibre artillery strikes against NPP area. The shelling was carried out from Ukrainian troops' firing positions near Nikopol', Marganets, Vyshetarasovka and Chervonogrigorovka, located on the opposite bank of Kakhovka reservoir.
> 
> ▫️Russian Armed Forces artillery return fire have suppressed enemy firepower.
> 
> #MoD #Russia #Ukraine #report
> @mod_russia_en


Seems like stats Direct from Russian military: excellent progress. At this rate, we should expect Ukrainians to be depleted by end of month.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562943025734553600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562943125949009922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562940004883902466


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Waste of ammo for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> War ramps up birth rate. Every time a country has war, population increases fast. This is human biology.


Modern time examples pls. Just because it happened in WWII does not mean it will happen in 2025.... As China has demonstrated, once the policy for 1 child was something that the population got used to, no amount of inducement will get people to change to have more than 1 kid. In a declining population fertility in Europe (including Russia) a war is not going to reverse it.


----------



## jhungary

Russian not doing too good in Bakhmut...........









Armed Forces of Ukraine force Russian troops to retreat on Bakhmut front General Staff report


OLHA HLUSHCHENKO - TUESDAY, 23 AUGUST 2022, 07:11 The Armed Forces of Ukraine have foiled Russian attempts to advance on several fronts, including the Bakhmut front, where Russian forces attempted to conduct assault operations, but failed and retreated.




news.yahoo.com





There is an unverified video in Ukrainian Armed Force Telegram channel showing Russian troop retreated from Southern (Or Eastern, I can't remember on top of my head) leaving behind 40+ dead Russian soldier. If that is true, they lost an entire platoon........


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Modern time examples pls. Just because it happened in WWII does not mean it will happen in 2025.... As China has demonstrated, once the policy for 1 child was something that the population got used to, no amount of inducement will get people to change to have more than 1 kid. In a declining population fertility in Europe (including Russia) a war is not going to reverse it.



Basically human biology. During war time, people reproduce more and faster. It is genetic programming by mother nature. Back in the day when war was common, people reproduced faster and this resulted in a fairly young population. Global population increase was mostly driven by war.


----------



## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Basically human biology. During war time, people reproduce more and faster. It is genetic programming by mother nature. Back in the day when war was common, people reproduced faster and this resulted in a fairly young population. Global population increase was mostly driven by war.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> View attachment 873781



Russia population was 148.5 million in 1992 when USSR just dissolved. And that was without Crimea which has 2.5 million people. War can easily push Russia population over 150 million.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562897444274581504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563038450088964096


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia population was 148.5 million in 1992 when USSR just dissolved. And that was without Crimea which has 2.5 million people. War can easily push Russia population over 150 million.


Russia facing population collapse. Mortality higher than birth rate. Low life expectancy. Low living standards. Immigration to other countries. 4 million since the war began. Russia is a country of no future. Russia recent population census even includes population from illegal occupied territories. Now coming the war deaths and wounded in Ukraine with no end insight.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russia facing population collapse. Mortality higher than birth rate. Low life expectancy. Low living standards. Immigration to other countries. Russia is a country of no future. Russia recent population census even includes population from illegal occupied territories.



War boosts population growth. War rejuvenates a nation. After WW1 and WW2 the US population was rejuvenated and increased more than 2 fold.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> War boosts population growth. War rejuvenates a nation. After WW1 and WW2 the US population was rejuvenated and increased more than 2 fold.


Not when a country is under sanctions. Russia is more sanctioned than all other combined. North Korea, Iran, Syria, Cuba, Burma. Russia has 0 access to money, technology, expertise from the west. How can Russia rebuild the country?
Putin only friends in China, India won’t help. They wait until Russia lies in ruin then they can buy everything cheaper.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Not when a country is under sanctions. Russia is more sanctioned than all other combined. North Korea, Iran, Syria, Cuba, Burma. Russia has 0 access to money, technology, expertise from the west. How can Russia rebuild the country?
> Putin only friends in China, India won’t help. They wait until Russia lies in ruin then they can buy everything cheaper.



Russia is a Chinese vassal. Most of their civilian stuffs are imported from China which has 1.4 billion people and very high IQ and large talent base. China has cold northern climate which fosters R&D and industrialization.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia is a Chinese vassal. Most of their civilian stuffs are imported from China which has 1.4 billion people and very high IQ and large talent base.


Yes very regrettable. Russia becoming a chinese colony is my prediction day 1. Whatever the outcome of this war. read my post here.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Yes unfortunately. Russia becoming a chinese colony is my prediction day 1. Whatever the outcome. read my post here.



China respects Russia's territorial integrity. A fairly powerful Russia is a good buffer for China. The way Canada and Mexico are buffers for America.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563048110770626563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563055694525644800

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China respects Russia's territorial integrity. A fairly powerful Russia is a good buffer for China. The way Canada and Mexico are buffers for America.


Does Ccp recognize Russia illegal occupation of Crimea and Donbas? No. Even Putin ally Kasachstan doesn’t recognize. Chinese are opportunistic they will squeeze the dumb Russians.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Does Ccp recognize Russia illegal occupation of Crimea and Donbas? No. Chinese are opportunistic they will squeeze the dumb Russians.



China unofficially recognizes Crimea as Russian land. The same way America unofficially recognized Golan and East Jerusalem as Israeli land.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China unofficially recognizes Crimea as Russian land. The same way America unofficially recognized Golan and East Jerusalem as Israeli land.


Ok then don’t complain. the same way the West recognize Taiwan as independent country.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ok then don’t complain. the same way the West recognize Taiwan as independent country.



I never said Taiwan is not an independent country.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562203179554594816


----------



## Viet

oberschlesier said:


> the gas EU reserves are right now at 78.3% and still growing: https://agsi.gie.eu/
> German economy did not suffer a recesion in Q2, even with the gas sanctions introduced by the Russian side.


Germany GDP is stagnant however there is a risk of recession. EU combined GDP is 8 percent higher than before pandemic 2019, the US economy even 14 percent higher. Putin can dream of collapse of the west while Russia economy will shrink 15 pct this year.
This gas blackmail by Putin will bring more misery to Russia in the long run. People don’t forget it.


----------



## DF41

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Kiev government has committed crimes against humanity when it started shelling Donbas civilians in 2014 right after Euro Maidan. If anything, Putin bring Kiev to international tribunal. UN Charter legalizes military action if the purpose is to protect civilians from brutal regimes.




Grow up.

Murica and NATO monsters behind the killing of Donbas civilians.
Providing arms and training and the instigations and the directions to Nazis to kill and slaughter .

How many died in Donbas at the hands of the Nazis lead and instigated by Murica and NATO?

30,000? 40,000? 100,000?

Those numbers meant nothing to Murica and NATO monsters

Remember Madeline Albright?

Refreshing your memory here if you forgotten her







Even 500,000 kids worth the price to her.
For all you know, 5,000,000 kids will also worth the price to those kind of monsters.

Hitler is a pious and holy person in contrast to those Murican and NATO ghouls.

And they the power behind UN Charter.

Russia must de nazified Murica and NATO for the world to be safe.
And China will back Russia in that holy task

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562890310765621248

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## Vergennes

Guess being stupid must be a requirement to join the Russian army. @F-22Raptor


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563103584614756352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563106769059975174


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563119167817289728

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

No shower and no toilet paper in the EU next year 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562960814742507521

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beny Karachun

Type59 said:


> Soviet Anti tank missiles AT 2, was effective against Israelis in 1973 war and their 1960s technology.


That's because Israeli tanks were Centurions, M48 and M60s which were same era as those AT-2 or older


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562972967646408704


----------



## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562972967646408704


Lmfao Russia keeps losing badly, S400 proven useless, a dozen tanks lost each day, day 183 of Russia's 3 day war😂😂😂

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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> Guess being stupid must be a requirement to join the Russian army. @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563103584614756352
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563106769059975174


That tank….russians really dont value their lives very much do they? 

Unfortunately that means that they must suffer greater pain before they realize they should let ukraine be….


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562919623892385792


Beny Karachun said:


> Lmfao Russia keeps losing badly, S400 proven useless, a dozen tanks lost each day, day 183 of Russia's 3 day war😂😂😂



Says by an Israeli whose American-supplied army can't defeat loosely armed guerillas in Gaza and South Lebanon. Your army wouldn't last a month to fight a well-armed adversary. Stop chatting shit when you needed the Americans to provide you with weapons and men when the Egyptian army overwhelmed you in the Sinai dessert in 1973 and overrran your positions. And in 2006, Hezbollah with only Kornet atgms and katyushas had steadfastly crushed your child and mama-killing army in the Beka valley. And in 2022, PIJ forced you to accept their conditions in a brief war.

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## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562203179554594816


Standard poor russian propaganda:
Posing soldiers
Showing off weapons
Showing said weapons firing into the distance…(hitting whothefuckknows)

Every building hit was a “nazi command post” or “Himars ammunition depot”
Every train hit was a “nazi special forces train”
Every meter taken in a field in donbass was a “8 year buildup massive fortification” and “surely leads to a new pocket/collapse of UAF” .

Rinse and repeat.

On the other hand i cannot count the numbers of russian tanks that joined the turret toss. With tankers flying or flaming about….

4d chess master…this Putin.

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## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Says by an Israeli whose American-supplied army can't defeat loosely armed guerillas in Gaza and South Lebanon. Your army wouldn't last a month to fight a well-armed adversary. Stop chatting shit when you needed the Americans to provide you with weapons and men when the Egyptian army overwhelmed you in the Sinai dessert in 1973 and overrran your positions. And in 2006, Hezbollah with only Kornet atgms and katyushas had steadfastly crushed your child and mama-killing army in the Beka valley. And in 2022, PIJ forced you to accept their conditions in a brief war.




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/wy6w9j

No Antonovsky bridge? ☹️
S-400 doesn't work?☹️☹️☹️

Lmfao you and your nonsense self declared victories lmfao, let's leave aside 1973 and 2006 because I've already debunked that nonsense, 2022 PIJ forced us to do something? Lmfao. Israel literally had 0 casualties. The most critically injured guy was some soldier that got hit by shrapnel of a mortar shell in his arm.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563134778958049281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563124257416421376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563115446932762625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563083270740668422


ZeGerman said:


> Unfortunately that means that they must suffer greater pain before they realize they should let ukraine be….



No Russian wants war. If Kiev government stops shelling Donbas civilians, the war ends immediately.

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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> No Russian wants war. If Kiev government stops shelling Donbas civilians, the war ends immediately.


😂😂😂😂😂 That's why they're arresting people with "no war" signs? 

Shut up dude you have no idea what you're talking about


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563121341028450305


----------



## Vergennes

Beny Karachun said:


> Lmfao Russia keeps losing badly, S400 proven useless, a dozen tanks lost each day, day 183 of Russia's 3 day war😂😂😂




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563131472114237442
"Our air defence systems have near 100% interception rates of himars and m270".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563063139691704321

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563134778958049281
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563124257416421376
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563115446932762625
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563083270740668422
> 
> 
> No Russian wants war. If Kiev government stops shelling Donbas civilians, the war ends immediately.


Donbas or Crimea is Ukraine territory it’s legitimate to bomb everything every Russian stooges and separatists. It’s war zone anyway it’s better for all to leave. I don’t see Putin complains himself in Czechnia when he burned everything to ashes.

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## aviator_fan

MeFishToo said:


> View attachment 873781


Negligible increase in WWII and long-term declined still continued: hardly a 'ramp up of birth rate' to make any significant dent so the data does not hold your assertion.

It has shifted up a bit now but well below replacement ratio of 2.1. All this increase means is that the rate of decline is reduced, not 'ramping up' to increase population. ANd that was before the war where lots of skilled Russians have left , at least in the 100s of thousands. 

I think Russia will have to figure out how to use energy as a weapon as their best hope. THe population comeback ain't happening in any relatively wealthy country (Russia included).


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563079021054664708

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563147914868039681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563093072342585344


Viet said:


> Donbas or Crimea is Ukraine territory



No it's not. Kiev government don't deserve it. Kiev government don't deserve the people they shell at. This is stated in the UN Charter. The UN Charter states if a government shells its own people then it does not deserve the people.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563093628716601344


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563179641602330625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563175738022326272

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563186606286127105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563177287977054211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563185017832222720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563182472682016770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563176584554889216

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563079021054664708
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563147914868039681
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563093072342585344
> 
> 
> No it's not. Kiev government don't deserve it. Kiev government don't deserve the people they shell at. This is stated in the UN Charter. The UN Charter states if a government shells its own people then it does not deserve the people.


So the separatists shelling Ukraine troops is ok? But Ukraine troops shelling separatists is not ok? Who are you? Chosen people?


----------



## HorusRa

Vergennes said:


> "Our air defence systems have near 100% interception rates of himars and m270".



The sad part is that tankies actually believe this nonsense lmao. They probably still believe no planes were lost in that airfield attack

BTW how many HIMARs were "destroyed" by now? 50?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563140273311404033


----------



## The SC




----------



## Type59

Beny Karachun said:


> That's because Israeli tanks were Centurions, M48 and M60s which were same era as those AT-2 or older



Point I was making that during the cold War, nations were making precision weapons. Some people wrongly assume, only modern technology 7nm or 5nm chips are needed for missiles. 



Beny Karachun said:


> Lmfao Russia keeps losing badly, S400 proven useless, a dozen tanks lost each day, day 183 of Russia's 3 day war😂😂😂



Iran has benefited from war, there's little desire for more sanctions from Yankees and Europeans. Always unintended consequences from conflicts 😁


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> So the separatists shelling Ukraine troops is ok? But Ukraine troops shelling separatists is not ok? Who are you? Chosen people?



Kiev started the war in early 2014 with Euro Maidan. They deserve what they got. The first forever war in human history.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563196562229977090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563196735018893318

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563205190534451206


----------



## The SC



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beny Karachun

Type59 said:


> Point I was making that during the cold War, nations were making precision weapons. Some people wrongly assume, only modern technology 7nm or 5nm chips are needed for missiles.


Depends on the weapon. What if your processor needs a lot of AI cores for the guidance system? or for the RCWS? 
Of course certain calculations like ballistics or whatever require constant time and can be achieved with any processor, but there are applications which advanced chips are needed.


----------



## RoadAmerica

aviator_fan said:


> Hardly. Putin just ordered army size to increase. His next order will be to have women have 5 kids to offset its declining population. In 30 years you will be regretting what you just said.


Can your crystal ball predict the winning lotto numbers too? Putin can demand all he wants



DF41 said:


> Grow up.
> 
> Murica and NATO monsters behind the killing of Donbas civilians.
> Providing arms and training and the instigations and the directions to Nazis to kill and slaughter .
> 
> How many died in Donbas at the hands of the Nazis lead and instigated by Murica and NATO?
> 
> 30,000? 40,000? 100,000?
> 
> Those numbers meant nothing to Murica and NATO monsters
> 
> Remember Madeline Albright?
> 
> Refreshing your memory here if you forgotten her
> 
> View attachment 873811
> 
> 
> Even 500,000 kids worth the price to her.
> For all you know, 5,000,000 kids will also worth the price to those kind of monsters.
> 
> Hitler is a pious and holy person in contrast to those Murican and NATO ghouls.
> 
> And they the power behind UN Charter.
> 
> Russia must de nazified Murica and NATO for the world to be safe.
> And China will back Russia in that holy task
> 
> View attachment 873814


Go away turd!


----------



## The SC




----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Kiev started the war in early 2014 with Euro Maidan. They deserve what they got. The first forever war in human history.


Maidan is Ukraine internal matter what has it to do with Moscow? If Ukraine wants to join the West the be it. If Putin wants to join China club then be it. Why interfere in other people matters? Nobody will stop Putin if he wants to learn mandarin.

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## Type59

Beny Karachun said:


> Depends on the weapon. What if your processor needs a lot of AI cores for the guidance system? or for the RCWS?
> Of course certain calculations like ballistics or whatever require constant time and can be achieved with any processor, but there are applications which advanced chips are needed.



I am referring to legacy systems like Krasnopol laser-guided rocket-assisted projectiles and other guided missiles that have origins in 80s, 90s and 00s.


----------



## The SC




----------



## HorusRa

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/wyclra

Orcs are so retarded its hilarious

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## aziqbal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563173910157590528

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563251241110556678

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563251301806272514

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563238323610480643

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563231883952959489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563225578878423044

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## Viet

the hatred must be bottomless. the Russians rather burn it off then exporting natural gas to Germany.
this flame consumes gas worth $10 million per day.
Probably multiple flames across Russia
Bad
Lots of carbon dioxide
Global warming coming faster.
The flame can be even seen by satellite.







IMAGE SOURCE, ARI LAINE
Image caption,
This photo was taken by Finnish citizen Ari Laine on 24 July at a distance of around 23 miles (38km) from the Portovaya facility





IMAGE SOURCE, COPERNICUS SENTINEL/SENTINEL HUB/PIERRE MARKUSE
Image caption,
A colourised version of this satellite image captures infrared radiation from the burning of gas at the Portovaya plant

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## Primus

Viet said:


> the hatred must be bottomless. the Russians rather burn it off then exporting natural gas to Germany.
> Gas worth $10 million per day are burnt off.
> Bad
> Global warming coming faster.
> The flame can be even seen by satellite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, ARI LAINE
> Image caption,
> This photo was taken by Finnish citizen Ari Laine on 24 July at a distance of around 23 miles (38km) from the Portovaya facility
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, COPERNICUS SENTINEL/SENTINEL HUB/PIERRE MARKUSE
> Image caption,
> A colourised version of this satellite image captures infrared radiation from the burning of gas at the Portovaya plant


Great Thurnberg is gonna be pissed

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563273460050464768

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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563147930667606016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563096632039972864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563270557986017280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563228306513637383


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563206845086728194


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563212925539864577




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563212067502694400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563182939243892738

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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563182412665802752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563180433344708610

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563166113248481280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563146137980112898

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## MeFishToo

aviator_fan said:


> Negligible increase in WWII and long-term declined still continued: hardly a 'ramp up of birth rate' to make any significant dent so the data does not hold your assertion.
> 
> It has shifted up a bit now but well below replacement ratio of 2.1. All this increase means is that the rate of decline is reduced, not 'ramping up' to increase population. ANd that was before the war where lots of skilled Russians have left , at least in the 100s of thousands.
> 
> I think Russia will have to figure out how to use energy as a weapon as their best hope. THe population comeback ain't happening in any relatively wealthy country (Russia included).


I was showing the figure to prove his claim to be wrong. I completely agree with you. Actually the russian birth rate was falling during 1940-1945.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563285957188927488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563286481174958080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563286855902445568


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563279075854385158

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563240063454294017


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563247737302548480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563255654768574465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563253061522702336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563248648523497473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563247233645981696


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563288758903984128


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Donbas or Crimea is Ukraine territory it’s legitimate to bomb everything every Russian stooges and separatists. It’s war zone anyway it’s better for all to leave. I don’t see Putin complains himself in Czechnia when he burned everything to ashes.


Dude, why do you sound like a democracy woke fanatic. What has Ukraine got to do with you. I only support Russia because NATO cannot be allowed to expand, I am for a multipolar world not a unipolar American world.


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> the hatred must be bottomless. the Russians rather burn it off then exporting natural gas to Germany.
> this flame consumes gas worth $10 million per day.
> Probably multiple flames across Russia
> Bad
> Lots of carbon dioxide
> Global warming coming faster.
> The flame can be even seen by satellite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, ARI LAINE
> Image caption,
> This photo was taken by Finnish citizen Ari Laine on 24 July at a distance of around 23 miles (38km) from the Portovaya facility
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, COPERNICUS SENTINEL/SENTINEL HUB/PIERRE MARKUSE
> Image caption,
> A colourised version of this satellite image captures infrared radiation from the burning of gas at the Portovaya plant


I work in the oil n gas industry, I don't think you understand what you are talking about. Flaring is to dispose non standard gas which contains toxic gases etc. If they don't want to sell to Europe, they just close a few valves, they don't flare it numb numb. Besides China is buying most of their gas and whatever remains is sold at triple the price to Europe. The Russians are making more money than ever and in just a few months made back in extra profit the 300bil confiscated by the West thanks to higher gas prices . Lolol.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Type59 said:


> I am referring to legacy systems like Krasnopol laser-guided rocket-assisted projectiles and other guided missiles that have origins in 80s, 90s and 00s.



Laser guided bombs were first used in the early 70s in Vietnam war. Military hardware also don't use civilian chips. They went to the moon in 1969 with only rudimentary computers.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563299412176404480

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563121341028450305





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563251301806272514


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> the hatred must be bottomless. the Russians rather burn it off then exporting natural gas to Germany.
> this flame consumes gas worth $10 million per day.
> Probably multiple flames across Russia
> Bad
> Lots of carbon dioxide
> Global warming coming faster.
> The flame can be even seen by satellite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, ARI LAINE
> Image caption,
> This photo was taken by Finnish citizen Ari Laine on 24 July at a distance of around 23 miles (38km) from the Portovaya facility
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, COPERNICUS SENTINEL/SENTINEL HUB/PIERRE MARKUSE
> Image caption,
> A colourised version of this satellite image captures infrared radiation from the burning of gas at the Portovaya plant


Watch this in the news couple of hours ago, asked my cousin who work at Deepwater Champion why they did that, this is what he told me.

That show you they produce more than they can store, you can't just stop extract the gas and cap the well immediately, you need to do it gradually.......

Burn it, it cost you nothing but the gas. If you try to store it, you will need to build facilitate to do it, and people to manage it, both cost you money.

This is not a good sign for Russia tho, it means their gas sale dropped beyond a level it will cost more to store excess than to burn the gas outright. Which usually mean a lot of surpluses.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563270674353123329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563238323610480643

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563227527078092801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563182472682016770


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563277315219816450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563277319430479879

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563277324807974914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563277330243801090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563277335331479552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563277342621208579


----------



## Beny Karachun

Type59 said:


> I am referring to legacy systems like Krasnopol laser-guided rocket-assisted projectiles and other guided missiles that have origins in 80s, 90s and 00s.


Well yeah, those are rather simple.


----------



## The SC

The rest of the world >>>>>>>>>




















HaHaHa!

You want to match these ready to die Men and women.. while 90% of EU hate to die.. Are you ready to die too..??? HaHaHaHaHa!

Please Ukrainand brothers and sisters.. never challenge Russia.. Napoleon and Hitler did it .. read history.. and what has happened to them!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563180095157587968
That Russian convoy got obliterated


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563260468982329344


----------



## dbc

Han Patriot said:


> I work in the oil n gas industry, I don't think you understand what you are talking about. Flaring is to dispose non standard gas which contains toxic gases etc. If they don't want to sell to Europe, they just close a few valves, they don't flare it numb numb. Besides China is buying most of their gas and whatever remains is sold at triple the price to Europe. The Russians are making more money than ever and in just a few months made back in extra profit the 300bil confiscated by the West thanks to higher gas prices . Lolol.



You work in oil n gas? and you come up with this pearl of wisdom? Oil wells flare natural gas because they don’t have the infrastructure to store and transport the gas produced from the well for it to be commercially viable. Natural gas is always contaminated with H2S the concentration depends on the region where the oil/gas is produced. Bottom line, the gas flared at the well site is typically 70 to 90% Methane mixed with butane, propane and small amounts of H2S contaminant >4ppm in sour gas. @Viet is right, billions of dollars of natural gas has been ‘flared’ around the world because natural gas is not the desired output from the well - the operator wants oil NOT gas. Flaring ‘poison’ gas mainly H2S is just a bonus the main objective is to get rid of the natural gas. Flaring gas is wasteful, the gas produced can easily be processed to remove H2S and piped to local communities Instead of burning it and emitting CO2 and SO2. The eco-friendly option is a zero flaring solution where the gases produced by the well is injected back into the reservoir. Think twice before you go around calling people ‘numb numb’, you might end up with egg on your face.

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Dude, why do you sound like a democracy woke fanatic. What has Ukraine got to do with you. I only support Russia because NATO cannot be allowed to expand, I am for a multipolar world not a unipolar American world.


Where do I promote democracy in Ukraine or elsewhere? NATO is not a threat to Russia. NATO is a defense alliance. Don’t repeat this NATO threat lie over and over again. Germany, France refused Ukraine Nato entry. Scholz said to Putin days before invasion Ukraine would not join the alliance even in 30 years.
My concern is Ccp will copy Russia war of aggression and start denazification campaigns in Far East. Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan, Philippines.
There is a risk Chinese become nationalists and many become racists.
This unipolar, multipolar is nothing more than empty worthless rhetoric.


----------



## Viet

dbc said:


> You work in oil n gas? and you come up with this pearl of wisdom? Oil wells flare natural gas because they don’t have the infrastructure to store and transport the gas produced from the well for it to be commercially viable. Natural gas is always contaminated with H2S the concentration depends on the region where the oil/gas is produced. Bottom line, the gas flared at the well site is typically 70 to 90% Methane mixed with butane, propane and small amounts of H2S contaminant >4ppm in sour gas. @Viet is right, billions of dollars of natural gas has been ‘flared’ around the world because natural gas is not the desired output from the well - the operator wants oil NOT gas. Flaring ‘poison’ gas mainly H2S is just a bonus the main objective is to get rid of the natural gas. Flaring gas is wasteful, the gas produced can easily be processed to remove H2S and piped to local communities Instead of burning it and emitting CO2 and SO2. The eco-friendly option is a zero flaring solution where the gases produced by the well is injected back into the reservoir. Think twice before you go around calling people ‘numb numb’, you might end up with egg on your face.


Yes you are totally right. I check the natural gas composition. All components from methane, butane to liquids are valuable. The only explanation why the Russians burn it is either incompetence or refusal to sell. Ridiculous, here in Germany gas is very expensive, the gov asking gas rationing while they burn it.

The excuse burning gas because is toxic is laughable. Gas is toxic You should not inhale it.


----------



## jhungary

dbc said:


> You work in oil n gas? and you come up with this pearl of wisdom? Oil wells flare natural gas because they don’t have the infrastructure to store and transport the gas produced from the well for it to be commercially viable. Natural gas is always contaminated with H2S the concentration depends on the region where the oil/gas is produced. Bottom line, the gas flared at the well site is typically 70 to 90% Methane mixed with butane, propane and small amounts of H2S contaminant >4ppm in sour gas. @Viet is right, billions of dollars of natural gas has been ‘flared’ around the world because natural gas is not the desired output from the well - the operator wants oil NOT gas. Flaring ‘poison’ gas mainly H2S is just a bonus the main objective is to get rid of the natural gas. Flaring gas is wasteful, the gas produced can easily be processed to remove H2S and piped to local communities Instead of burning it and emitting CO2 and SO2. The eco-friendly option is a zero flaring solution where the gases produced by the well is injected back into the reservoir. Think twice before you go around calling people ‘numb numb’, you might end up with egg on your face.


Last time I asked him, he said he "Build Storage Platform" for offshore oil and gas. Suddenly he is working on "Oil and Gas" industry. 

That dude didn't even know why Brent Crude were $130 4 months ago and $80 now. His claim of "Working in Oil and Gas industry" is amount to the same as a gas station attendant saying he work in oil and gas industry, only different is gas station attendant really do work with oil and gas........by pumping them to client car......

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## aviator_fan

The SC said:


> The rest of the world >>>>>>>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HaHaHa!
> 
> You want to match these ready to die Men and women.. while 90% of EU hate to die.. Are you ready to die too..??? HaHaHaHaHa!
> 
> Please Ukrainand brothers and sisters.. never challenge Russia.. Napoleon and Hitler did it .. read history.. and what has happened to them!


SC, you live in Canada, so I have to assume at least your French must be good because your english sucks and barely discernible and worse than that of a 8 year old. It makes it impossible to decihper your comments

Yes thanks for sharing the Napolean and Hitler examples. But who cares , no of us were f*(*&ing alive then. What we were alive for was to see Afghanistan debacle collapse the USSR. Do you know know that the USSR invaded in Afghanistan and then lost fewer soldiers than Ukraine and the rest was history? That is a more relevant In terms of a scenario replay and also the most recent one. I wouldn't live the hey day of Hitler as a way to benchark how this works.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## srshkmr

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563260468982329344


nothing to show off. its just a motorcycle helmet

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Dude, why do you sound like a democracy woke fanatic. What has Ukraine got to do with you. I only support Russia because NATO cannot be allowed to expand, I am for a multipolar world not a unipolar American world.


The best way to preserve a non-unipolar world was to have Putin keep his ego in zipped up in his pants. He was projecting sufficient influence by implicit force.

NATO just expanded by 2 countries , something it hadn't done in 14 years as a result of Russia actions.

The world is going unipolar because of Putin's insecurity. A balanced world was a better place, but its gone now.

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> The best way to preserve a non-unipolar world was to have Putin keep his ego in zipped up in his pants. He was projecting sufficient influence by implicit force.
> 
> NATO just expanded by 2 countries , something it hadn't done in 14 years as a result of Russia actions.
> 
> The world is going unipolar because of Putin's insecurity. A balanced world was a better place, but its gone now.


Which is sad. If you think of it. 

Just US, maybe China can handle, now with this Russian invasion, NATO is being revived and more consolidate and united ever, not only that, Russia did was also effectively pushing EU more into US sphere of influence, now EU is going to get more dependent on US oil and gas and economic activities, that is something even out of Chinese contention. What Russia effectively doing is to push the world back into a single bloc world, NATO and US/EU Bloc. 

I think Xi need to thank Russia for destroying Chinese plan on multipolar world......

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## sammuel

Viet said:


> the hatred must be bottomless. the Russians rather burn it off then exporting natural gas to Germany.
> this flame consumes gas worth $10 million per day.
> Probably multiple flames across Russia
> Bad
> Lots of carbon dioxide
> Global warming coming faster.
> The flame can be even seen by satellite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, ARI LAINE
> Image caption,
> This photo was taken by Finnish citizen Ari Laine on 24 July at a distance of around 23 miles (38km) from the Portovaya facility
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, COPERNICUS SENTINEL/SENTINEL HUB/PIERRE MARKUSE
> Image caption,
> A colourised version of this satellite image captures infrared radiation from the burning of gas at the Portovaya plant




Instead of all the superpowers working together , to solve this planet challenges , like weather changes , healing our rivers and forests , we got this avoidable war that hurts our home and planet even more.


~



Han Patriot said:


> I only support Russia because NATO cannot be allowed to expand,



Come on , Putin did not invade Ukraine cause of NATO. He invaded cause he wants Ukraine for himself.

~


----------



## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> The rest of the world >>>>>>>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HaHaHa!
> 
> You want to match these ready to die Men and women.. while 90% of EU hate to die.. Are you ready to die too..??? HaHaHaHaHa!











Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing To Fight A War For Their...


Map created by reddit user Spartharios The map above shows the percentage of residents in various European countries who are willing to fight and go to war for their country. Full results below: From high to low, these are the percentages by country: 74% - Finland. 73% - Turkey. 62% - Ukraine...




brilliantmaps.com




That only applies for the most pacifistic, individualistic countries like germany or netherlands. 

The east is much closer to russia, and ukraine with its 40 million even higher willingness! 

Which is what russia has to fight through.
Backing of ukraine in meantime stays strong.



The SC said:


> Please Ukrainand brothers and sisters.. never challenge Russia.. Napoleon and Hitler did it .. read history.. and what has happened to them!



But It is russia doing the charging into former soviet territory….

No “defending moscow”, no “motherland under attack”, no “let the vast space and winter of the tundra wear them down”

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## Vergennes

How it started and how it ended











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563382510243164160


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

DF41 said:


> Grow up.
> 
> Murica and NATO monsters behind the killing of Donbas civilians.
> Providing arms and training and the instigations and the directions to Nazis to kill and slaughter .
> 
> How many died in Donbas at the hands of the Nazis lead and instigated by Murica and NATO?
> 
> 30,000? 40,000? 100,000?
> 
> Those numbers meant nothing to Murica and NATO monsters
> 
> Remember Madeline Albright?
> 
> Refreshing your memory here if you forgotten her
> 
> View attachment 873811
> 
> 
> Even 500,000 kids worth the price to her.
> For all you know, 5,000,000 kids will also worth the price to those kind of monsters.
> 
> Hitler is a pious and holy person in contrast to those Murican and NATO ghouls.
> 
> And they the power behind UN Charter.
> 
> Russia must de nazified Murica and NATO for the world to be safe.
> And China will back Russia in that holy task
> 
> View attachment 873814


1. The 500,000 dead kids was Iraqi propaganda. It never happened
2. She went into a defensive position when faced by a false accusation.
2. She retracted the comment almost immediately after the interview, after thinking things through.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563461321311793152


----------



## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> The best way to preserve a non-unipolar world was to have Putin keep his ego in zipped up in his pants. He was projecting sufficient influence by implicit force.
> 
> NATO just expanded by 2 countries , something it hadn't done in 14 years as a result of Russia actions.
> 
> The world is going unipolar because of Putin's insecurity. A balanced world was a better place, but its gone now.


Those 2 were already under NATO sphere long ago, Ukraine is special, it equivalent to Taiwan joining NATO. For China. The best way for a multipolar world was for NATO to respect the interests of others and stop salami slicing and trying to dominate others. If China and Russia is gone there will be nobody balancing US. And we know what happened for the past 3 decades of blatant US hegemony. Wars and inflation and economic crisis. You think printing money has no cost? 11 carriers is subsidized by who? All the people using dollars are subsidizing it indirectly.

Look at how US treats UK or Japan, essentially forcing their will on these 2 poodles. Are they even sovereign? The CIA infiltrated their whole country. People need to understand US is not the good guy here, nor is China nor is Russia. The world needs balance, and the numb numb woke fanatics over here think if Russia falls, the world would be a better place.


----------



## Han Patriot

dbc said:


> You work in oil n gas? and you come up with this pearl of wisdom? Oil wells flare natural gas because they don’t have the infrastructure to store and transport the gas produced from the well for it to be commercially viable. Natural gas is always contaminated with H2S the concentration depends on the region where the oil/gas is produced. Bottom line, the gas flared at the well site is typically 70 to 90% Methane mixed with butane, propane and small amounts of H2S contaminant >4ppm in sour gas. @Viet is right, billions of dollars of natural gas has been ‘flared’ around the world because natural gas is not the desired output from the well - the operator wants oil NOT gas. Flaring ‘poison’ gas mainly H2S is just a bonus the main objective is to get rid of the natural gas. Flaring gas is wasteful, the gas produced can easily be processed to remove H2S and piped to local communities Instead of burning it and emitting CO2 and SO2. The eco-friendly option is a zero flaring solution where the gases produced by the well is injected back into the reservoir. Think twice before you go around calling people ‘numb numb’, you might end up with egg on your face.


If we follow you, all FPSOs would be out of business. Not all gas have H2S, depends on the field numb numb. Gas is cleaned or sweettened for the GTGs and the rest is reinjected to the oil well to increase pressure.

Most oil fields have stranded gas in uneconomical quantities, if you flare all of them you get global warming and that's a no no nowadays. 30 years ago when they didn't have EOR and oil prices were low, there was no incentive for reinjection plus the environmental regulations were low, so they flared it day and night.
Flaring happens when there is a process disruption. Might be toxic gas leak, etc or they just want to clear the system.
How do I know? I design the controls system genius. Lolol.

The only way to get stranded gas to market is using FLNG for marine areas but there are only 2 or 3 currently as expensive as hell. So gas is not flared but reinjected, understand.

Gas in this case can be isolated by a few valves, THEY DON'T HAVE TO FLARE IT. The article is saying as if Russia can't sell gas so they flare it, that's stupid as fck. You just close the valves, you don't have go flare if numb nuts.

Butane methane, whatever depends on the field. So stop copy pasting the Internet, I work as a process control engineer and I know what I am talking about.

The essence of the argument is this, Russia don't need to flare the gas to stop selling to Ukriane. Even if they want to flare to dispose uneconomical gas, it has nothing to do with Ukraine.


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Where do I promote democracy in Ukraine or elsewhere? NATO is not a threat to Russia. NATO is a defense alliance. Don’t repeat this NATO threat lie over and over again. Germany, France refused Ukraine Nato entry. Scholz said to Putin days before invasion Ukraine would not join the alliance even in 30 years.
> My concern is Ccp will copy Russia war of aggression and start denazification campaigns in Far East. Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan, Philippines.
> There is a risk Chinese become nationalists and many become racists.
> This unipolar, multipolar is nothing more than empty worthless rhetoric.


NATO is not a threat to Russia. Hahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahah. Fine you are not promoting democracy then what are you promoting? Ukriane join NATO? This fcking war started because Ukraine would not and could not declare neutrality and NATO COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT GUARANTEE UKRAINIAN WOULD NOT JOIN.

NATO also gave lip service that they will not expand eastward 30 years ago.... What happened? Do you know NATO is a military alliance. MILITARY. If its not agints Russia who is it against? You must be retarded to think otherwise

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## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> Last time I asked him, he said he "Build Storage Platform" for offshore oil and gas. Suddenly he is working on "Oil and Gas" industry.
> 
> That dude didn't even know why Brent Crude were $130 4 months ago and $80 now. His claim of "Working in Oil and Gas industry" is amount to the same as a gas station attendant saying he work in oil and gas industry, only different is gas station attendant really do work with oil and gas........by pumping them to client car......


Geessh, it was nearly 130 and now it dropped and it might go up again genius, thats how the market works, it goes up and down. Remember when I told you it was 120$ plus and you wouldnt believe me. Have you checked the gas prices lately? Hahahahah. It is the OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY NOT JUST Oil.

And my company design, build and operate FPSOs. You don't know this, then you are not in the industry and know jackshit. FPSO is not just a storafe facility, it is a deep water oil rig, because when you go deeper, you can't use conventional oil rigs anymore, you need to use floaters or ships called FPSO. Floating production storage and offloading. IT IS THE OIL INDUSTRY UPSTREAM, WHERE CRUDE OIL IS PRODUCED. damn I feel like I am talking to an unemployed Uni undergrad or someone doing their PhD with no working experience. Are you one? Hahhaah


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563484200254070788

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563180095157587968
> That Russian convoy got obliterated




There was a civilian vehicle that was hit. Stop calling the attacks on civilians as attacks against military vehicles. Nevertheless, the bridge is still standing.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563483956837642243

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563483962411851779

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563484390860423172

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563478079254953985
Listen to a details version of the video below that the senator described how Putin was trying to prevent war and wanted a written proposal from NATO. NATO didn't want to give any written guarantee. The Ukrainians themselves amassed "this enormous army to attack the Donbass", and Russians came in to prevent the Ukrainians to carry out the massacres they planned against Ukrainians.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563478079254953985

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The Ukrainians attempted a counter attack and their tanks got obliterated. This was a tank massacre👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563485005195919360


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563367364233953280


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563470164796243973

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563470164796243973



There is no single evidence of any destroyed Himars and if Russia actually did,be sure they would show it all over the internet,unfortunately a bush and a second floor appartment building do not count as himars. 

Meanwhile wagnerites are sleeping a lot recently it seems. May they rot in hell where they belong.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563481718283046919


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> NATO is a defense alliance.



NATO may be a defensive alliance but the US is not. Russians will never allow a Russian speaking country to host American military bases along the Russian border. It is too much humiliation to swallow.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563495764864925696


----------



## Viet

sammuel said:


> Instead of all the superpowers working together , to solve this planet challenges , like weather changes , healing our rivers and forests , we got this avoidable war that hurts our home and planet even more.
> 
> 
> ~
> 
> 
> 
> Come on , Putin did not invade Ukraine cause of NATO. He invaded cause he wants Ukraine for himself.
> 
> ~


Yes very regrettable
We have someone like Sergei Lavrov who dreams with China to build a democratic world order.
Think about it: democratic order
Floods, droughts, hunger, famine, global warming, etc. less important 
That’s why humanly has no chance to survive.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> NATO just expanded by 2 countries , something it hadn't done in 14 years as a result of Russia actions.



Sweden and Finland are not Russian speaking countries. Russians are fine with them joining NATO. Russians are not fine with Ukraine joining NATO. Ukraine is a Russian speaking country.


----------



## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> Geessh, it was nearly 130 and now it dropped and it might go up again genius, thats how the market works, it goes up and down. Remember when I told you it was 120$ plus and you wouldnt believe me. Have you checked the gas prices lately? Hahahahah. It is the OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY NOT JUST Oil.
> 
> And my company design, build and operate FPSOs. You don't know this, then you are not in the industry and know jackshit. FPSO is not just a storafe facility, it is a deep water oil rig, because when you go deeper, you can't use conventional oil rigs anymore, you need to use floaters or ships called FPSO. Floating production storage and offloading. IT IS THE OIL INDUSTRY UPSTREAM, WHERE CRUDE OIL IS PRODUCED. damn I feel like I am talking to an unemployed Uni undergrad or someone doing their PhD with no working experience. Are you one? Hahhaah


Dude, you are no more "Oil and Gas" people than I am in p0rn when I was working in Venice fixing camera equipment and one of the clients was making p0rn.

And this is NOT how oil and gas market works. If you really know anything about oil and gas market at all, it is known to be one of the most "Stabled" commodities only affected by a few external circumstances, because oil is highly demanded commodity. So, it will not go up and down at will. There are 5 factors affect petrol price, I will get up and call you genius if you can name just 2.

And then you come out with the most retarded answer "Gas are toxic" when Russia burn them, I mean, if that is not the dumbest answer in the world, then I don't know what is. All gas are toxic even Oxygen, why not burn them all when they come out of the tap? Dude. Don't make me laugh.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563449181242417152


Viet said:


> My concern is Ccp will copy Russia war of aggression and start denazification campaigns in Far East. Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan, Philippines.



China will invade Taiwan eventually. No one can stop it. It happens whether Russia attack Ukraine or not.


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> NATO is not a threat to Russia. Hahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahah. Fine you are not promoting democracy then what are you promoting? Ukriane join NATO? This fcking war started because Ukraine would not and could not declare neutrality and NATO COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT GUARANTEE UKRAINIAN WOULD NOT JOIN.
> 
> NATO also gave lip service that they will not expand eastward 30 years ago.... What happened? Do you know NATO is a military alliance. MILITARY. If its not agints Russia who is it against? You must be retarded to think otherwise


Nato never gave a promise not to expand. NATO always says she is a open defence pact everyone can join. Article 5 says the alliance only helps if a member is attacked, not if a member attacks others. That’s a fact. Certainly NATO is built to fight Russia should it come to a blow. Why should anyone deny.

No I am not here to promote democracy. It’s Lavrov that wants to bring democracy to China. I hate hooligans and rapists. Right must prevail over wrong.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russia pulls all fighter jets out of Crimea ..​








'Panicking' Putin 'pulls all fighter jets out of Crimea


The secret document dated August 22 claimed Russia has already moved 10 of its most capable fighter planes - six Su-35S and four MiG-31BM jets - out of territory it annexed from Ukraine in 2014




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563272896113324032


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563478079254953985
> Listen to a details version of the video below that the senator described how Putin was trying to prevent war and wanted a written proposal from NATO. NATO didn't want to give any written guarantee. The Ukrainians themselves amassed "this enormous army to attack the Donbass", and Russians came in to prevent the Ukrainians to carry out the massacres they planned against Ukrainians.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563478079254953985



Ukraine's population falls below 20 million after 10 years of war. Driven mainly be mass exodus.



Ali_Baba said:


> Russia pulls all fighter jets out of Crimea ..​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Panicking' Putin 'pulls all fighter jets out of Crimea
> 
> 
> The secret document dated August 22 claimed Russia has already moved 10 of its most capable fighter planes - six Su-35S and four MiG-31BM jets - out of territory it annexed from Ukraine in 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



They never use fighter jets anyway.



Viet said:


> Article 5 says the alliance only helps if a member is attacked, not if a member attacks others. That’s a fact.



That is open to interpretation. A NATO country can attack and then say it got attacked. For example, Poland can attack Ukraine and when Ukraine shoots back Poland can say Ukraine attacked me and invoke Article 5.



Viet said:


> It’s Lavrov that wants to bring democracy to China.



China is already a democracy.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563408383603908608


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> How it started and how it ended
> 
> View attachment 874085
> 
> 
> View attachment 874086
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563382510243164160




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563494318715080706


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563449181242417152
> 
> 
> China will invade Taiwan eventually. No one can stop it. It happens whether Russia attack Ukraine or not.


The chance is 50 percent. I think because the PLA needs more time, maybe in 5 or 10 years then PLA is ready. Then when the time is right, Ccp will make the final decision. This Russia war against Ukraine is a perfect blueprint. Ccp will study the western sanctions on Russia and decide whether or not to invade.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> The chance is 50 percent.



The chance is not 50 percent. By 2050 China is the top dog and America has weakened to the level of Mexico or Brazil, no one can stop China attack Taiwan just like no one can stop America invade Serbia, Libya, Iraq, Syria when America was the top dog.



Viet said:


> Ccp will study the western sanctions on Russia and decide whether or not to invade.



By 2050 China dominates the world economy. No one dares to sanction China by then when China attack Taiwan.



Viet said:


> This Russia war against Ukraine is a perfect blueprint.



Russia is nobody. Russia has a tenth of China's population. Russia is a Chinese vassal the way Canada is an American vassal.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563463412772147200


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563507264484679681


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563495764864925696





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563276103363751936


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563489980705812481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563459596785954816


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> There is no single evidence of any destroyed Himars and if Russia actually did,be sure they would show it all over the internet,unfortunately a bush and a second floor appartment building do not count as himars.
> 
> Meanwhile wagnerites are sleeping a lot recently it seems. May they rot in hell where they belong.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563481718283046919



There is an evidence: The US is constantly sending them to Ukraine. That is the evidence. If those HIMARS were not getting destroyed, then why the Biden administration keep supplying them?

Another proof: Every announcement of Biden administration of sending the HIMARS follows every Russian ministry of defense claims that they destroyed HIMARS and its ammunition. You can only get this point if you were paying attention and not being a rainbow-flag carrying Western fanboy.

Now, stop wasting my time by replying to my comments with your usual gibberish. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563467671022485504


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The chance is not 50 percent. By 2050 China is the top dog and America has weakened to the level of Mexico or Brazil, no one can stop China attack Taiwan just like no one can stop America invade Serbia, Libya, Iraq, Syria when America was the top dog.
> 
> 
> 
> By 2050 China dominates the world economy. No one dares to sanction China by then when China attack Taiwan.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is nobody. Russia has a tenth of China's population. Russia is a Chinese vassal the way Canada is an American vassal.


I said 50 pct because China is now ruled by the weakling Xi jinping. He is not going to war. He is not crazy enough. China needs a crazy hardliner, nuts like Mao or Deng Xiaoping.
Both Mao and Deng went to war against USSR and Vietnam although they knew the Soviets could turn China to nuclear ashes.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> I said 50 pct because China is ruled by a weakling Xi jinping. He is not going to war. He is not crazy enough. China needs a crazy hardliner someone nuts like Mao or Deng Xiaoping.
> Both Mao Deng went to war against USSR and Vietnam although they knew the Soviets could turn China to nuclear ashes.



Right now if China goes to war China is vulnerable to Western sanction. By 2050 when China is top dog and dominates world economy and technology all the Western countries are Chinese vassals and China invade Taiwan like America invaded Iraq and Afghanistan when America was top dog.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563362235791327232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563362238345318408

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

DJI Mavic 3 drone spots tanks and drone operator calls in an arti strike


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563511755623387136


----------



## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563273460050464768


It's funny how Ukrainian artillery is literally sniping Russian tanks and radar systems and such, whereas Russian artillery can't hit a huge *** school

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> It's funny how Ukrainian artillery is literally sniping Russian tanks and radar systems and such, whereas Russian artillery can't hit a huge *** school



Because Ukrainians are super mensch and Russians are unter mensch.


----------



## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563362235791327232
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563362238345318408


Being Russian simply means "talk about how superior you are only to get debunked, repeat"

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> Being Russian simply means "talk about how superior you are only to get debunked, repeat"



To be honest Tornado-S is vastly superior to HIMARS. Range 120 km with GLONASS guided rocket compared to 70 km with GPS guided rocket. Rocket diameter 300 mm compared to 227 mm. 12 barrels compares to 6 barrels. Gotta give credit where it's due.

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## DF41

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Right now if China goes to war China is vulnerable to Western sanction.




Sanctions no longer carry the fear that it once had.

I laugh now to see the sanctions Murica and NATO carried out on Russia turning around and biting them in the face and arse and all in between.

The NATO and Murica now not only fear winter is coming, they fear too autumn is just around the corner and that they might need to go crawl around Red Square on elbows and knees 3 times followed by 3 sincere kowtows to Putin to be relieved of sanctions.

Putin so cheerful about sanctions that he refused to accept North Stream 1 pump back as he declared that to be on sanction even though Germany begged and begged him to accept the pump after Germany begged and begged Canada to return the pump.

Crops in Europe all failing from drought and in time, Europe be very hungry unless NATO tell Europe if they dont have bread that they must then eat cake.

China got no fear of sanctions at all.

Look at what happened when Murica tried to block China from space flight which made China even stronger in space as China then did it all on her own.

Murica tried to block China from buying radar from West forcing China to do that on her own.
To the extent that China radar can detect mosquitoes flying more than a mile away by the wings flapping.
Easily able to detect the stealth planes of Murica .









Chinese scientists say they're building a radar that can track mosquitoes flying more than a mile away


'We are actually quite close to bringing this technology out of the laboratory and using it to save lives'




www.independent.co.uk





_Chinese scientists claim new radar can track mosquito's flight from a mile away_​_Chinese scientists claim they are developing a radar so sensitive it can detect mosquitoes flying more than a mile away.

The device uses the latest military technology to measure the wing-flapping speed of individual insects, according to one of the researchers involved in the government project._

China can easily shut Murica and murica doggies out of China much more easy than Murica and her doggies hope to sanction China.

And then they got to go to TianAnmeng Square to crawl on bended elbows and knees 3 times around the Square before they are allowed to kowtow sincerely 3 times to Xi Dada to be allowed to resume trade with China again.

So do not even think about sanctioning China to try to bully China

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563524987859808257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563460622318473217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563517703792365568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563501879623299079

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563462300463276034

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563531160595992577


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563526444151865344


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563517895812222976


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> There is an evidence: The US is constantly sending them to Ukraine. That is the evidence. If those HIMARS were not getting destroyed, then why the Biden administration keep supplying them?



I don't know actually if your IQ is high enough to understand that the more you send the more effective Ukraine's strike capability is. By the same logic why is Russia sending old tanks and keeps sending old farts to the frontline if they aren't getting destroyed ? Oh they actually are being destroyed,lmao.

"Gibberish" coming from a guy like you who claimed Moskva wasn't hit and then when it was the only thing you came up with is "it's an old ship anyway and not an important vessel of the Russian navy" although it's the black sea fleet flagship.

BTW the mighty Russians despite amassing a huge amount of firepower,troops and equipments can't barely advance more than 100 meters every days and while Russian accounts keep claiming they are 2 kilometers from Kyiv,Russia still hasn't secured pisky,bakhmut,siversk,soledar despite turning them into rubbles and claiming every days they are fully captured.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Ukrainians attempted a counter attack and their tanks got obliterated. This was a tank massacre👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563485005195919360



LMAO @F-22Raptor 

Copium much it seems.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563514551764938753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563497834762031105

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## HorusRa

Vergennes said:


> Copium much it seems.



Dude should work for russian MOD lmao

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




----------



## Abid123

Russia should use tactical nukes and end the war.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Abid123 said:


> Russia should use tactical nukes and end the war.


Russia knows that if it starts using nukes, the non-proliferation treaty is dead. That means that plenty of countries starts to develop nukes, and someone will give a nuclear weapon to a terrorist that will blow up Moscow and Saint Petersburg, and then the Russian Federation is done for. Plenty of other cities will be gone in similar attacks. Stop being childish and think.


----------



## jhungary

Abid123 said:


> Russia should use tactical nukes and end the war.


Are you really that stupid?

Moscow is 500 miles away from Ukraine at the furthest point, if Russia nuke Ukraine a wrong breath of wind would have spread radioactive material toward Moscow and beyond, it will most likely be the same as nuking yourselves. Not to mention the further point in Ukraine is next to Poland, a NATO member.

You never nuke your neighbour unless you want to die with it. It works for India/Pakistan situation, it does not in Ukraine.....

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

captured missiles


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563545365424783361
Mi-28 attack aircraft locks missile on T-64 tank


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563543012587671553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563543732758380545
some captured POWs


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563543838261555201


Abid123 said:


> Russia should use tactical nukes and end the war.



It is forever war. There is to end to it. Just like there is no end to CO2 increase, no end to covid-19 pandemic.


----------



## Abid123

jhungary said:


> Are you really that stupid?
> 
> Moscow is 500 miles away from Ukraine at the furthest point, if Russia nuke Ukraine a wrong breath of wind would have spread radioactive material toward Moscow and beyond, it will most likely be the same as nuking yourselves. Not to mention the further point in Ukraine is next to Poland, a NATO member.
> 
> You never nuke your neighbour unless you want to die with it. It works for India/Pakistan situation, it does not in Ukraine.....


Are you that illiterate or numb? I clearly mentioned "tactical nukes". Here you are imagining Russia using strategic nukes against Ukraine🙄

Russia has thousands of low yield tactical nukes. 

Russia could use a extremely small number of them against military targets in Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abid123 said:


> Are you that illiterate or numb? I clearly mentioned "tactical nukes". Here you are imagining Russia using strategic nukes against Ukraine🙄
> 
> Russia has thousands of low yield tactical nukes.
> 
> Russia could use a extremely small number of them against military targets in Ukraine.



He clearly has no idea what a tactical nuke is.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492480373753745409

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## Abid123

A.P. Richelieu said:


> and someone will give a nuclear weapon to a terrorist that will blow up Moscow and Saint Petersburg, and then the Russian Federation is done for.


Please tell me your joking? "Someone will give a nuclear weapon to a terrorist that will blow up Moscow and Saint Petersburg, and then the Russian Federation is done for".

Telling others to stop being childish while you have made maybe the most childish post in PDF history🤪

You can't just give a "terrorist" a nuke to blow up Moscow and Saint Petersburg. You don't think Russia would retaliate against who ever did it? Give nuke to a terrorist to use against the world biggest nuclear power. 

The real world does not work that way. Maybe in your fantasy world it does.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563583989751095296

More HIMARS strikes

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## DF41

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> To be honest Tornado-S is vastly superior to HIMARS. Range 120 km with GLONASS guided rocket compared to 70 km with GPS guided rocket. Rocket diameter 300 mm compared to 227 mm. 12 barrels compares to 6 barrels. Gotta give credit where it's due.


While Tornado-S is vastly superior to HIMARS, China PHL-191 is superior to Tornado-S

Look at the range and CEP of China PHL-191 FireDragons.




S10 said:


> No, the US equivalent would be M270. And I am using "equivalent" very loosely as US has no comparable system.
> 
> PHL-191 has a CEP of 5 meters at maximum range (~380km) for guided rockets and CEP of 1 meter within 280km.





Anytime Murica want to embarrass themselves by comparing their touted HIMAR to PHL-191?

*HIMAR CANNOT COMPARE IN REACH, AND COMPARE WITH BANG
OR IN CEP
OR COMPARE IN NUMBERS.

The new M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, will bring the total number committed to Ukraine to 16. The light, wheeled multiple rocket launcher allows Ukraine to strike at ranges of 85 kilometers, or 53 miles,

AND REMEMBER CHINA INDUSTRIAL PROWESS CAN CHURN OUT
PHL-191 AND FIREDRAGONS LIKE COOKIES AND DIMSUMS.

CHINA CAN EASILY SUPPLY RUSSIA WITH 10 PHL-191 FOR EVERY 1 HIMARS MURICA GIVING TO UKRAINE

HIMAR IS LIKE USING MUZZLE LOADER BLACK POWDER SINGLE SHOT AGAINST Type 85 heavy machine gun*

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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> To be honest Tornado-S is vastly superior to HIMARS. Range 120 km with GLONASS guided rocket compared to 70 km with GPS guided rocket. Rocket diameter 300 mm compared to 227 mm. 12 barrels compares to 6 barrels. Gotta give credit where it's due.


I don't see it working


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Right now if China goes to war China is vulnerable to Western sanction. By 2050 when China is top dog and dominates world economy and technology all the Western countries are Chinese vassals and China invade Taiwan like America invaded Iraq and Afghanistan when America was top dog.


Relax, it’s still long road. in 2050 Putin will be 100y, he will observe a declining Russia as a chinese colony.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563531782275837953


----------



## Viet

Surprise
Scholz visits Ukraine soldiers who undergoing trainings in Germany. More weapons coming.
Not nice, russian spies seem very active. they want to explore what the Ukraine doing according to MAD militärischer Abschirmdienst (Germany’s military counter intelligence).


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563497752436170753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563470221268369410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563467671022485504

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563600118515122176

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dbc

Han Patriot said:


> Not all gas have H2S, depends on the field numb numb.



Not all natural gas has H2S, is this Chinese chemistry? I keep hearing about Chinese Physics @gambit and here you are the founding father of a new branch of fictional chemistry. H2S is always produced by anaerobic digestion of organic matter in the absence of oxygen - typical sub surface conditions that result in the formation of hydrocarbons. Natural gas with less than 4ppm of H2S is termed 'sweet gas'. Sweet gas still contain trace amount of H2S but its in low enough quantity to require no additional processing to remove H2S.



Han Patriot said:


> Gas in this case can be isolated by a few valves, THEY DON'T HAVE TO FLARE IT. The article is saying as if Russia can't sell gas so they flare it, that's stupid as fck. You just close the valves, you don't have go flare if numb nuts.


Another pearl of wisdom, 144 billion cubic meters of natural gas is flared each year. For context, this is nearly equal to Iran's annual production of natural gas @160 billion cubic meters. So I guess operators are two lazy or dumb to simply isolate "a few valves" and prevent waste of valuable natural resource in high demand. Wow, just wow I have no words to describe your high intellect.


What is gas flaring?​Gas flaring is the burning of natural gas associated with oil extraction. The practice has persisted from the beginning of oil production over 160 years ago and takes place due to a range of issues, from market and economic constraints, to a lack of appropriate regulation and political will. Flaring is a monumental waste of a valuable natural resource that should either be used for productive purposes, such as generating power, or conserved.* For instance, the amount of gas that is currently flared each year – about 144 billion cubic meters – could power the whole of sub-Saharan Africa.*
_








What is Gas Flaring?


Gas flaring is the 160-year-old oil industry practice of wastefully burning associated gas, a common by-product that is extracted from reservoirs together with oil, typically from a flare stack located at an oil production site.




www.worldbank.org




_



Han Patriot said:


> The only way to get stranded gas to market is using FLNG for marine areas but there are only 2 or 3 currently as expensive as hell. So gas is not flared but reinjected, understand.





Han Patriot said:


> Most oil fields have stranded gas in uneconomical quantities, if you flare all of them you get global warming and that's a no no nowadays. 30 years ago when they didn't have EOR and oil prices were low, there was no incentive for reinjection plus the environmental regulations were low, so they flared it day and night.
> Flaring happens when there is a process disruption. Might be toxic gas leak, etc or they just want to clear the system.
> How do I know? I design the controls system genius. Lolol.



..hmmm 30 years ago there was no EOR, I suppose you mean Enhanced Oil Recovery. So you claim almost no one flares anymore because they "isolate a few values" and solve the problem; 'viola' no flaring. But according to world wide data, the amount of flaring has only declined 14% from 1996. But "Mr. I know, I'm in O N G" claims almost no one flares anymore, everyone re-injects by "isolating some valves". Who should I believe, real world data? Or, "Mr. I Know, I'm in O N G" - tough call.

If you're weren't in O N G, I'd say don't quit your day job, but in your case I'd make an exception.









__





Loading…






www.worldbank.org

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## The SC




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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563605907153780738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563605909984710656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563605912174362625

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mavic 3 recon drone


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563608646222655489
RPG-30 rocket launcher






T-62 M tank






Pantsir mobile air defense

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563605907153780738
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563605909984710656
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563605912174362625



War is good for business. America has been at war every day since 1775.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563600118515122176



Waste of rockets for nothing.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563608244987510786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563597703636209664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563613357407703040


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563628411255496704
What a garbage sums up Russian equipments.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563628411255496704
> What a garbage sums up Russian equipments.



The corruption in the Russian military and society at large is immense.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The corruption in the Russian military and society at large is immense.



Russia is much less corrupt compared to Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563632908849528832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563632235340775425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563591459621650432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563607249767071744

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## Ali_Baba

*Russia running out of S300 systems as Ukraine keeps destroying them.*









Russia Pulls Its 'Syrian' S-300 Missile Battery, Ships It To Black Sea


Russia 'gifted' Syria the S-300 after a friendly fire incident, but it remained in Russia control and now it's heading towards Ukraine.




www.thedrive.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> *Russia running out of S300 systems as Ukraine keeps destroying them.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Pulls Its 'Syrian' S-300 Missile Battery, Ships It To Black Sea
> 
> 
> Russia 'gifted' Syria the S-300 after a friendly fire incident, but it remained in Russia control and now it's heading towards Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



S-300 is not that good. S-350 is much more capable. 









Russia’s New S-350 Air Defense System Appears At Base Near Ukraine Border


Russia’s new S-350 Vityaz surface-to-air missile system is now protecting an airbase less than 40 miles from Ukraine.




www.thedrive.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

Russia is essentially getting its a** handed to it and should count themselves fortunate that the US hasn’t yet gifted several hundred Abrams and Bradley’s to Ukraine to retake its territory.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Maybe they should nuke each other and end the war for once and all , it's been prolonged way too long


----------



## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> I work in the oil n gas industry, I don't think you understand what you are talking about. Flaring is to dispose non standard gas which contains toxic gases etc. If they don't want to sell to Europe, they just close a few valves, they don't flare it numb numb. Besides China is buying most of their gas and whatever remains is sold at triple the price to Europe. The Russians are making more money than ever and in just a few months made back in extra profit the 300bil confiscated by the West thanks to higher gas prices . Lolol.


They flare the gas at the LNG plant in order to relieve build up preassure. They have nowhere to send the western sibirian gas. This has nothing to do with standart flaring.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563654830987550731


Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Maybe they should nuke each other and end the war for once and all , it's been prolonged way too long



You ain't seen nothing yet. 100 years from now the war is still going.



F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is essentially getting its a** handed to it and should count themselves fortunate that the US hasn’t yet gifted several hundred Abrams and Bradley’s to Ukraine to retake its territory.



Kornet makes mincemeat out of Abrams. Yemen footage:


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563655977748013057

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## jhungary

Abid123 said:


> Are you that illiterate or numb? I clearly mentioned "tactical nukes". Here you are imagining Russia using strategic nukes against Ukraine🙄
> 
> Russia has thousands of low yield tactical nukes.
> 
> Russia could use a extremely small number of them against military targets in Ukraine.


So, tactical nuke is not a nuke, it's does not emit radiation, it does not have fallout and fission material?

Just because it is in Kiloton or in other word low yield, it does not mean there are nothing to blow back to Russia. Moscow on the short end is only 200 miles from Kharkiv. and around 400 miles from Kyiv. So where in Ukraine you want to nuke/ Nuking too close to Poland, you are dragging the NATO into this nuclear war. Nuking too close to you, you are dragging yourselves into the nuclear fallout. 

Chernobyl explosion is in low kilotons range (If it can ever be compared to an intentional detonation), its radiation and fallout flow over to the UK and it's considered harmful in Germany, about 1000 miles away. Sure, Russian "TACTICAL" nuke will not do that, because they are low yield, right?. Let's not forget how the world know about Chernobyl exist in the first place, the worker in Forsmark Nuclear plant pick up enough radiative particle to trigger the alert of their own system thinking their own plant was leaking, and Forsmark is 1300km away from Chernobyl. 

Man, you need to admire the dumbness of people these day.....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563578208175685633


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563688014605426688


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563640666789380097


Vergennes said:


> I don't know actually if your IQ is high enough to understand that the more you send the more effective Ukraine's strike capability is. By the same logic why is Russia sending old tanks and keeps sending old farts to the frontline if they aren't getting destroyed ? Oh they actually are being destroyed,lmao.
> 
> "Gibberish" coming from a guy like you who claimed Moskva wasn't hit and then when it was the only thing you came up with is "it's an old ship anyway and not an important vessel of the Russian navy" although it's the black sea fleet flagship.
> 
> BTW the mighty Russians despite amassing a huge amount of firepower,troops and equipments can't barely advance more than 100 meters every days and while Russian accounts keep claiming they are 2 kilometers from Kyiv,Russia still hasn't secured pisky,bakhmut,siversk,soledar despite turning them into rubbles and claiming every days they are fully captured.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563598778996641793

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563543327382769670

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563540742462513153

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563572050916425729


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563550611710554113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563549856081547268


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563539282010472453


----------



## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Waste of rockets for nothing.


Must be important that the Russians are trying to shoot them down around there.


----------



## Oldman1

@jhungary 

Any chance of giving the Ukrainians air burst version of the GMLRS? Good time to hit the Russian troops on frontlines and inflict massive casualties in the trenches before they get replaced by troops that would be sent to replace them in rotation before the winter. Great story for the survivors to tell to their comrades coming in to replace them. Also I read about that Gray Eagle Predator may be provided, that drone would be great for real time intel for the Ukrainians instead of trying to use them for ground attack like TB2. Considering the HARMs are dealing with Russian air defense systems to they won't be too close to the front lines and the Gray Eagle can see afar so it won't be too close to the frontlines, just close enough to provide visual or ELINT.

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Those 2 were already under NATO sphere long ago, Ukraine is special, it equivalent to Taiwan joining NATO. For China.


Just because they weren't communist doesn't mean they were in NATO. They were western democracies and there is a big difference between not being in the eastern camp and then being in NATO. This would be like calling African countries where China is investing in and building infrastructure or beltroad part of China. They are not part of China just because they have economic association.

So its obvious you have never visited these two countries, but take the trouble to read about them and their history, particularly of Finns fighting Russians.

Ukraine was not joining NATO. That was in the clear. But your opinions are the sort of advice that Putin's advisers were given him. Instead of a paper tiger that had a myth of a superpower that the world could be afraid of, its a proven its hollow and going through the same debacle as it did in Afghanistan

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## Soldier35

The crew commander of the Russian 152-mm howitzer "Msta-B", spoke about combat work in Ukraine. Russian gunners have been participating in battles in Ukraine for 6 months.






Footage of the repair of Russian military equipment damaged in the battles in Ukraine. In order to maintain the high combat capability of the units, first of all, the weapons that are necessary to carry out the combat mission, as well as the weapons that can be repaired in the shortest possible time, are repaired. Works on the repair of military equipment are going on around the clock.






The pilot of the Russian Ka-52 helicopter spoke about the method of attack from carbriation. The pitch-up mode allows you to attack with unguided missiles without entering the air defense coverage area. Before the start of the attack, the pilot increases the angle of elevation of the nose of the aircraft, simultaneously releasing unguided rockets.






Ukrainian information channels published footage of the assault on the island of Serpents by Ukrainian special forces on May 7. The battle somehow looks strange, on the background of the day a person calmly walks. In reality, during that battle, the special forces retreated and could not even take the dead.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> Any chance of giving the Ukrainians air burst version of the GMLRS? Good time to hit the Russian troops on frontlines and inflict massive casualties in the trenches before they get replaced by troops that would be sent to replace them in rotation before the winter. Great story for the survivors to tell to their comrades coming in to replace them. Also I read about that Gray Eagle Predator may be provided, that drone would be great for real time intel for the Ukrainians instead of trying to use them for ground attack like TB2. Considering the HARMs are dealing with Russian air defense systems to they won't be too close to the front lines and the Gray Eagle can see afar so it won't be too close to the frontlines, just close enough to provide visual or ELINT.


Well, that would have been an escalation, there are a lot going on already, Ukrainian Ops in Crimea, Occupied Ukraine and Russia, those ops have enough psychological effect on Russian morale already, unless Russia escalate (either mobilise or use nuke) I don't see any escalation on Ukrainian ends. 

What Ukrainian needed now is conventional firepower, tanks, artillery and aircraft, you need that to pull a counter offensive. Drones are a must have, with HARM now into the fray, it will most definitely pushes Russian Air Defence system further out, it blind your enemy and let you expand your area of operation.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563488628919377925


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563821249595580416


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> War is good for business. America has been at war every day since 1775.


Count how many wars involving Russia. you will be surprised. the slavic Russians initially originated from the region of Moscow.


----------



## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> While Tornado-S is vastly superior to HIMARS, China PHL-191 is superior to Tornado-S
> 
> Look at the range and CEP of China PHL-191 FireDragons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime Murica want to embarrass themselves by comparing their touted HIMAR to PHL-191?
> 
> *HIMAR CANNOT COMPARE IN REACH, AND COMPARE WITH BANG
> OR IN CEP
> OR COMPARE IN NUMBERS.
> 
> The new M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, will bring the total number committed to Ukraine to 16. The light, wheeled multiple rocket launcher allows Ukraine to strike at ranges of 85 kilometers, or 53 miles,
> 
> AND REMEMBER CHINA INDUSTRIAL PROWESS CAN CHURN OUT
> PHL-191 AND FIREDRAGONS LIKE COOKIES AND DIMSUMS.
> 
> CHINA CAN EASILY SUPPLY RUSSIA WITH 10 PHL-191 FOR EVERY 1 HIMARS MURICA GIVING TO UKRAINE
> 
> HIMAR IS LIKE USING MUZZLE LOADER BLACK POWDER SINGLE SHOT AGAINST Type 85 heavy machine gun*


Go away turd


----------



## jhungary

RoadAmerica said:


> Go away turd


Think he is banned

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## Viet

The inevitable coming.

The EU sets to impose the total ban of Russians.

Congrats to Putin. He lowers 144m Russians to the same level of terrorists, drug dealers and thieves.






__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com













Russian visa ban a matter of national security and EU credibility, says Estonia's PM


The EU must impose a flat travel ban on Russian citizens until Moscow ends its invasion of Ukraine, Estonia's Prime Minister Kaja Kallas told EURACTIV.




www.euractiv.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563861438623531014

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563855754297311232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563859815742558209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563838515095404545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563818029208698880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563787470692528128


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Count how many wars involving Russia. you will be surprised. the slavic Russians initially originated from the region of Moscow.



War is human history. Every day there is war somewhere in the world.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563788182491209728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563873804778196992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563861635005136897


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> War is human history. Every day there is war somewhere in the world.


this war is not just a war. This war is causing a global catastrophe.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> this war is not just a war. This war is causing a global catastrophe.



Meh. This is hardly a war. It is so low intensity there are only low hundreds tanks involved at any given time. You can call it a gang war, sort of like HTS vs Faylaq al Sham in Idlib mess, or the regular gang wars that plague Chicago. Hell, even the Western MSM got bored of it and stopped reporting it. 100 years from now it's still going.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563490262034558977


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563893832223162370


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563898743279304705


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563893832223162370



There is a dam in Kherson and there is a road and railway on the dam. This dam is said to be pretty indestructible and Ukrainians certainly have not even attempted to target that dam with HIMARS. Targeting the regular bridge with HIMARS is a horse and pony show. Ukrainians understand they lost Kherson forever just like Chinese understand they lost Taiwan forever. Rhetoric is only for domestic consumption with no chance of taking by force.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Meh. This is hardly a war. It is so low intensity there are only low hundreds tanks involved at any given time. You can call it a gang war, sort of like HTS vs Faylaq al Sham in Idlib mess, or the regular gang wars that plague Chicago. Hell, even the Western MSM got bored of it and stopped reporting it. 100 years from now it's still going.


Nonsense
A gang war in Chicago won’t effect anybody in Spain. This war effects everybody on earth. It’s just how hard. the hungry kid in Ethiopia bears the brunt harder than a baby of a poor family in cold flat in Germany.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Nonsense
> This war effects everybody on earth. It’s just how hard. the hungry kid in Ethiopia bears the brunt harder than a baby in cold flat in Germany.



Ethiopia's population boomed due to food paid for by UN. Their population is too big for their own resources to support. UN never should have created the mess to begin with. UN never should have artificially inflated Ethiopia's population in the first place and endangering the lives of millions. This fault rests on the shoulders of UN. And now it is time for UN to acknowledge its own wrongdoing. A smaller responsibility lies with America which started war in 2014 in Ukraine on the back of Euro Maidan. Without Euro Maidan, there would be peace in Europe.

UN defied mother nature. And when you defy mother nature, sooner or later mother nature will slap you in the bottom for being naughty.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563872038380519424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563914152736874496


----------



## Wood



Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Russian wanted Ukraine to be part of Russia, now Ukraine is dropping Russian language in their school. 

This is basically the complete opposite......


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ethiopia's population boomed due to food paid for by UN. Their population is too big for their own resources to support. UN never should have created the mess to begin with. UN never should have artificially inflated Ethiopia's population in the first place and endangering the lives of millions. This fault rests on the shoulders of UN. And now it is time for UN to acknowledge its own wrongdoing. A smaller responsibility lies with America which started war in 2014 in Ukraine on the back of Euro Maidan. Without Euro Maidan, there would be peace in Europe.
> 
> UN defied mother nature. And when you defy mother nature, sooner or later mother nature will slap you in the bottom for being naughty.


keep your nonsense
The winter is coming. 2 months from now this war of attrition will be more brutal. Temperature can sink to -15C. Let’s see how the Russian invasion army keep warm in their trenches.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Just keep your nonsense
> The winter war is coming. Temperature can sink to -15C. Let’s see how the Russian invasion army keep warm in their trenches.



Russians are used to cold winter. If anything, winter war is beneficial to Russians. Back in the day, Napoleon and Hitler both suffered defeat in Russian winter because French and Germans are used to mild winter, not harsh winter.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563919036794142724


----------



## The SC




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563929503138824197

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563929822258253824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563925132254617603


----------



## The SC




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563904946420039681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563910553424248838

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563945582988754944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563933772176932864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563931187541954569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563932236369596416


----------



## MeFishToo

The russian Izyum brigdehead is dwindling (War in Ukraine)
Putin needs more troops to hold ground.
27. aug:





28. aug:


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563936975782137861

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563944203628978179


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563958233718562816


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563919582901010438


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563797490771566593


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563950853987438600


----------



## jhungary




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563898743279304705


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563817448872312835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563936433290838016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563936433290838016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563936433290838016

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563974621929545728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563974734789869570

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563786218722172930


----------



## Viet

MeFishToo said:


> The russian Izyum brigdehead is dwindling (War in Ukraine)
> Putin needs more troops to hold ground.
> 27. aug:
> View attachment 874459
> 
> 28. aug:
> View attachment 874460


The Russians are forming a new army group. The 3rd army corps will reenforce the Donbas front. The question is how effect the new fighters will be. Most are lured by money. $5,000 per month is not bad. Russia minimum wage ist just $160 per month. incredible low, much lower than neighboring Turkey.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563968684250595329


----------



## MeFishToo

Viet said:


> The Russians are forming a new army group. The 3rd army corps will reenforce the Donbas front. The question is how effect the new fighters will be. Most are lured by money. $5,000 per month is not bad. Russia minimum wage ist just $160 per month. incredible low, much lower than neighboring Turkey.


They are worse than ukrainian militia and cant be used in any kind of offensive operations. Russia is only making progress where Wagner mercenaries lead the offence after days of heavy artillery bombardments.
Eventually even the Wagner group is running out of experienced personel.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> They are worse than ukrainian militia and cant be used in any kind of offensive operations. Russia is only making progress where Wagner mercenaries lead the offence after days of heavy artillery bombardments.
> Eventually even the Wagner group is running out of experienced personel.



90% of combat work is done by rebels. While it is true Russians do provide some artillery and air support, the vast majority of man power comes from rebels in Donbas. The situation is similar in Syria where while Turkey did provide some fire support, the rebels did the lion's share during the Afrin campaign to take Afrin from YPG.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563860682751283200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563860690665979904


----------



## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 90% of combat work is done by rebels. While it is true Russians do provide some artillery and air support, the vast majority of man power comes from rebels in Donbas. The situation is similar in Syria where while Turkey did provide some fire support, the rebels did the lion's share during the Afrin campaign to take Afrin from YPG.


Keep on dreaming and take your russian propaganda somewhere else. Your so called rebel formations are only stationed in the eastern part of the theater and have practically not moved for 8 years.
The Izyum brigdehead is dwindling because Putin is forced to reinforce in the east, while trying to hold ground in the Kherson area - all while pretending this is not a war.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

MeFishToo said:


> They are worse than ukrainian militia and cant be used in any kind of offensive operations. Russia is only making progress where Wagner mercenaries lead the offence after days of heavy artillery bombardments.
> Eventually even the Wagner group is running out of experienced personel.


Most are lured by money. they don’t hunt Nazi in Ukraine they hunt money. That’s the motivation. The Wagner is a neonazi group. Lots of them died. now they they even recruit prison inmates to fill up the gap. They are the backbone Putin relies on to build a global superpower.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563837090751778817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563850819283390465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563849370675691521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563848260984373248


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563844342879510531

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563844124729659393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563688076693610498

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563684800795402240


----------



## MeFishToo

Viet said:


> Most are lured by money. they don’t hunt Nazi in Ukraine they hunt money. That’s the motivation. The Wagner is a neonazi group. Lots of them died. now they they even recruit prison inmates to fill up the gap. They are the backbone Putin relies on to build a global superpower.


Typical russian platoon sized assault:

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563986437548253186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563986807703965698

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563994578558107653

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563982739031920645


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563990051775827968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563990053407301635

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563619353639124993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563647249481142272

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## A.P. Richelieu

Abid123 said:


> Please tell me your joking? "Someone will give a nuclear weapon to a terrorist that will blow up Moscow and Saint Petersburg, and then the Russian Federation is done for".
> 
> Telling others to stop being childish while you have made maybe the most childish post in PDF history🤪
> 
> You can't just give a "terrorist" a nuke to blow up Moscow and Saint Petersburg. You don't think Russia would retaliate against who ever did it? Give nuke to a terrorist to use against the world biggest nuclear power.
> 
> The real world does not work that way. Maybe in your fantasy world it does.


You would be surprised what people will do for money or revenge.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563633942607138816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563631792602710018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563631351424761863

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563627536344616962

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563630665622605826


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## Han Patriot

dbc said:


> Not all natural gas has H2S, is this Chinese chemistry? I keep hearing about Chinese Physics @gambit and here you are the founding father of a new branch of fictional chemistry. H2S is always produced by anaerobic digestion of organic matter in the absence of oxygen - typical sub surface conditions that result in the formation of hydrocarbons. Natural gas with less than 4ppm of H2S is termed 'sweet gas'. Sweet gas still contain trace amount of H2S but its in low enough quantity to require no additional processing to remove H2S.
> 
> 
> Another pearl of wisdom, 144 billion cubic meters of natural gas is flared each year. For context, this is nearly equal to Iran's annual production of natural gas @160 billion cubic meters. So I guess operators are two lazy or dumb to simply isolate "a few valves" and prevent waste of valuable natural resource in high demand. Wow, just wow I have no words to describe your high intellect.
> 
> 
> What is gas flaring?​Gas flaring is the burning of natural gas associated with oil extraction. The practice has persisted from the beginning of oil production over 160 years ago and takes place due to a range of issues, from market and economic constraints, to a lack of appropriate regulation and political will. Flaring is a monumental waste of a valuable natural resource that should either be used for productive purposes, such as generating power, or conserved.* For instance, the amount of gas that is currently flared each year – about 144 billion cubic meters – could power the whole of sub-Saharan Africa.*
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is Gas Flaring?
> 
> 
> Gas flaring is the 160-year-old oil industry practice of wastefully burning associated gas, a common by-product that is extracted from reservoirs together with oil, typically from a flare stack located at an oil production site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldbank.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..hmmm 30 years ago there was no EOR, I suppose you mean Enhanced Oil Recovery. So you claim almost no one flares anymore because they "isolate a few values" and solve the problem; 'viola' no flaring. But according to world wide data, the amount of flaring has only declined 14% from 1996. But "Mr. I know, I'm in O N G" claims almost no one flares anymore, everyone re-injects by "isolating some valves". Who should I believe, real world data? Or, "Mr. I Know, I'm in O N G" - tough call.
> 
> If you're weren't in O N G, I'd say don't quit your day job, but in your case I'd make an exception.
> 
> View attachment 874195
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldbank.org


Numb numb, not all oil fields have H2S, It depends on the field dumbass. 

Sour crude contains hydrogen sulfide (H2S) while sweet oil doesn’t. 

Usually, oil with H2S content above 0.5% is considered to be sour. I know this because I used to start the stripping system. I told you gas flaring is not allowed anymore, only a small quantity is allowed each year and capped due to greenhouse gas emissions.Nowadays, you only flare due to process anomalies and reinject back the gas into the field. EOR had only been popular for the past 10 years, before that 20 years ago, it was too expensive. I remember this EOR was the big word in the industry around when I changed my job. From your explanation of cutting and pasting, I know very well you have not been working in this industry. At most a process engineer in training. Lololol



Viet said:


> Nato never gave a promise not to expand. NATO always says she is a open defence pact everyone can join. Article 5 says the alliance only helps if a member is attacked, not if a member attacks others. That’s a fact. Certainly NATO is built to fight Russia should it come to a blow. Why should anyone deny.
> 
> No I am not here to promote democracy. It’s Lavrov that wants to bring democracy to China. I hate hooligans and rapists. Right must prevail over wrong.


There you go. You just explained the Hypocrisy. There is no security in Europe until all security concerns of All Europeans are taken into account. NATO is not Europe, its just the biggest bully.



jhungary said:


> Dude, you are no more "Oil and Gas" people than I am in p0rn when I was working in Venice fixing camera equipment and one of the clients was making p0rn.
> 
> And this is NOT how oil and gas market works. If you really know anything about oil and gas market at all, it is known to be one of the most "Stabled" commodities only affected by a few external circumstances, because oil is highly demanded commodity. So, it will not go up and down at will. There are 5 factors affect petrol price, I will get up and call you genius if you can name just 2.
> 
> And then you come out with the most retarded answer "Gas are toxic" when Russia burn them, I mean, if that is not the dumbest answer in the world, then I don't know what is. All gas are toxic even Oxygen, why not burn them all when they come out of the tap? Dude. Don't make me laugh.


We have an analyst doing full time oil and gas market analysis boy. You just graduated or something right? Or doing some postdoc? Hahaahahah

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## gambit

dbc said:


> Not all natural gas has H2S, is this Chinese chemistry? I keep hearing about Chinese Physics @gambit and here you are the founding father of a new branch of fictional chemistry.


I will not tread into whatever specialty you are talking about, my brain is stocked up as it is, but if, in your estimation, that HanPastry is wrong on the technical fronts, if you, or anyone in this forum, have relevant experience beyond reading wikipedia in any industry, all I can say about how desperate are the PDF Chinese cohort to appear smart is : I told ya so...


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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> I will not tread into whatever specialty you are talking about, my brain is stocked up as it is, but if, in your estimation, that HanPastry is wrong on the technical fronts, if you, or anyone in this forum, have relevant experience beyond reading wikipedia in any industry, all I can say about how desperate are the PDF Chinese cohort to appear smart is : I told ya so...


The dumb leading the dumb. And people wonder why the war started. Lol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564007107472547844

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564007884349915142

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564008041158156290


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563968461998641154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563990051775827968

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564024124460122112


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## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> We have an analyst doing full time oil and gas market analysis boy. You just graduated or something right? Or doing some postdoc? Hahaahahah


So effectively you are saying you know nothing about oil and gas market. Because you ARE NOT that analyst, otherwise you would have said *YOU ARE* that guy.

And I have been trading commodity probably since you are in primary school, son. Are you really that dumb?? But hey, most of your "Credential" are probably fake anyway, how do people "Work" in that field get all the stuff wrong, like all the time, and no answer but superficial one liner when asked about question you claim to have known?

LOL......... 



gambit said:


> I will not tread into whatever specialty you are talking about, my brain is stocked up as it is, but if, in your estimation, that HanPastry is wrong on the technical fronts, if you, or anyone in this forum, have relevant experience beyond reading wikipedia in any industry, all I can say about how desperate are the PDF Chinese cohort to appear smart is : I told ya so...


I wouldn't take anyone seriously if they start the conversation with "Numb Nuts" or "Numb Numb" not even my 12 years old cousin talks like that, and he want to be a rapper.

That dude has an emotion quotient of probably 5. Thinking insult people would make his point looks more valid, Well, it could be if he has a point to begin with. I am just here to poke him some more so he said stupid things here to further insult himself.......

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## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> So effectively you are saying you know nothing about oil and gas market. Because you ARE NOT that analyst, otherwise you would have said *YOU ARE* that guy.
> 
> And I have been trading commodity probably since you are in primary school, son. Are you really that dumb?? But hey, most of your "Credential" are probably fake anyway, how do people "Work" in that field get all the stuff wrong, like all the time, and no answer but superficial one liner when asked about question you claim to have known?
> 
> LOL.........
> 
> 
> I wouldn't take anyone seriously if they start the conversation with "Numb Nuts" or "Numb Numb" not even my 12 years old cousin talks like that, and he want to be a rapper.
> 
> That dude has an emotion quotient of probably 5. Thinking insult people would make his point looks more valid, Well, it could be if he has a point to begin with. I am just here to poke him some more so he said stupid things here to further insult himself.......


I am not an analyst but the analyst is sitting next to my room. And he explains to me that oil price is sometimes just a game of wits and based on human impulse. And yes the war did impact the price. Yes I believe you trade commodities like bitcoin..... Lololol. So you rather I believe a keyboard warrior than my colleague who has 20 years experience? Have you actually checked the recent gas price? Lololol. No oooo the war has no oooo effect at all.

For someone who doesn't even know how oil is produced and transported, even my 5 year old niece can be a 'trader' by using guesstimates and a graph. Lolol


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564076225827676161


----------



## dbc

Han Patriot said:


> My friend, any dumb cunt knew Finland and Sweden were not neutral since day one. Russian defectors used to cross into Finland.
> 
> Stop derailing into Africa and shit like that. We are talking real world scenarios here. Have you read the Ukrainian constitution lately? Ukraine not wanting to join NATO? Hahahahhaha Hahahahaha. They were giving lip service buying time. Russia was bullied and lied to for the past 30 years. NATO only respects real power from guns. If you are that blind and naive, I have nothing to say.
> 
> 
> Numb nuts, LNG? Russian gas is sold to Europe in gas form pressurized by compressor stations not in liquid form. Hahaahahaahahahahaha..... Damn I am. Talking to amateurs here. Do you even understand the temperatures the pipes need to be at if it's liquified.



so the worldbank and the IEA are both wrong when they say 150 billion cubic meters of gas was flared in 2019 world wide. But Mr. I know, I'm in O N G insists "..._trust me numb..numb...dumbass_" ..excetra ..excetra...."_i know no one flares gas anymore_ _I'm a stripper in O N G_"...numb numb...dumbass...excetra ...excetra..  

you've been exposed as a liar best you tuck tail and slink away.




Natural gas flaring has been a longstanding problem for the oil industry. The most recent data indicate that around *150 billion cubic metres (bcm) of natural gas was flared globally in 2019*, as much gas as Japan and Korea together imported in the same year. Despite rising awareness of the problem, and a number of initiatives aiming to curb flaring, the amount of gas flared globally each year has been edging higher in recent years and the world is now flaring as much as it did ten years ago.









Putting gas flaring in the spotlight – Analysis - IEA


Putting gas flaring in the spotlight - A commentary by Rebecca Schulz, Christophe McGlade, Peter Zeniewski




www.iea.org


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564007298078543872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564007884349915142

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564008041158156290

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564007298078543872
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564007884349915142
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564008041158156290



These new Mini 3 Pro drones are highly effective.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Destroyed Ukrainian tanks in the countryside of the Kherson front


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563977320419008514

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563968684250595329

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians are used to cold winter. If anything, winter war is beneficial to Russians. Back in the day, Napoleon and Hitler both suffered defeat in Russian winter because French and Germans are used to mild winter, not harsh winter.


It is Ukrainians fighting in their geo region and familiar with their climate. Not the Cubans or Brazilians who started the entanglement in the middle of summer.

War started in the winter and the temperature difference between Feb and Dec is only 2 degrees. 

So there is not a harsh winter (or any more harsher) than what the war started in and what the Ukrainians are used to living in. This is not an invasion of Moscow via Siberia that you could say the attacking force from Ukraine may not be as familiar with. So benefit to Russia is zero. Unless we find out that a Brazilian 'Wagner' has been doing this since the start

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> It is Ukrainians fighting in their geo region and familiar with their climate. Not the Cubans or Brazilians who started the entanglement in the middle of summer.
> 
> War started in the winter and the temperature difference between Feb and Dec is only 2 degrees.
> 
> So there is not a harsh winter (or any more harsher) than what the war started in and what the Ukrainians are used to living in. This is not an invasion of Moscow via Siberia that you could say the attacking force from Ukraine may not be as familiar with. So benefit to Russia is zero. Unless we find out that a Brazilian 'Wagner' has been doing this since the start



Ukraine used to be part of Russia between medieval era and 1991. Russians are pretty familiar with the terrain, especially east of Dnipr. Millions of Russians have family ties in Ukraine. They know the geography and climate and are used to it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Han Patriot

dbc said:


> so the worldbank and the IEA are both wrong when they say 150 billion cubic meters of gas was flared in 2019 world wide. But Mr. I know, I'm in O N G insists "..._trust me numb..numb...dumbass_" ..excetra ..excetra...."_i know no one flares gas anymore_ _I'm a stripper in O N G_"...numb numb...dumbass...excetra ...excetra..
> 
> you've been exposed as a liar best you tuck tail and slink away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Natural gas flaring has been a longstanding problem for the oil industry. The most recent data indicate that around *150 billion cubic metres (bcm) of natural gas was flared globally in 2019*, as much gas as Japan and Korea together imported in the same year. Despite rising awareness of the problem, and a number of initiatives aiming to curb flaring, the amount of gas flared globally each year has been edging higher in recent years and the world is now flaring as much as it did ten years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putting gas flaring in the spotlight – Analysis - IEA
> 
> 
> Putting gas flaring in the spotlight - A commentary by Rebecca Schulz, Christophe McGlade, Peter Zeniewski
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iea.org


My friend, oil and gas output had been increasing for the past few decades, of course flaring would increase but if you study the individual oilfields, the percentage of gas flared is capped at a limit. Do you understand math? If 30 years ago you produce 2 buckets of oil and you flare 1 fart, now you produce 200 buckets and flare 3 farts. The ratio is changing. Undestand numb nuts? BTW what has flaring gas got to do with the Ukrainian war. The gist of the argument was numbnuts here thought Russia was flaring gas because they couldn't sell the gas to Ukraine. My point was, you don't have to flare, you just fcking close a few valves. Unless of course they want to clean the pipes doing maintenance, etc. You don't need to flare gas just because you stop selling to Ukraine. You flare gas to do maintenance which is a process anomaly or you want to dispose toxic gas. Then once the pipes or equipments are empty, that's it. It's not as if you need constant flaring because you can't sell gas, its not like tacos, where you need to dispose it if you can't sell them. Understand you dmbfcks here.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564017483031478275


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## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> I am not an analyst but the analyst is sitting next to my room. And he explains to me that oil price is sometimes just a game of wits and based on human impulse. And yes the war did impact the price. Yes I believe you trade commodities like bitcoin..... Lololol. So you rather I believe a keyboard warrior than my colleague who has 20 years experience? Have you actually checked the recent gas price? Lololol. No oooo the war has no oooo effect at all.
> 
> For someone who doesn't even know how oil is produced and transported, even my 5 year old niece can be a 'trader' by using guesstimates and a graph. Lolol


Dude, first of all, if any "Analyst" said "Human Impulse" either he needed to be fired on the spot or he fake his college degree. Economic Analyst don't use word like impulse because you can't explain away the trend. "Oh, that's an impulse" if I did that to my boss when I was working on one of the Sydney Think Tank, I will get fired at the spot, you were there to analyse stuff, not to give you an open answer where you cannot explain. My boss can say "Human Impulse" so why do he pay you for.

Information processing cycle involved taking in raw data, interpret and explore said data, and then process said data, and then dissimilate the finding and finally put it into planning to either release said data or go back to the original mission, this is the cycle whether or not you are doing intelligence analysis with the military or tabulate your economic trend. 

And secondly, you have no idea how commodity works, if you think "You can trade commodity like bitcoin" that means you had neither traded commodity or bitcoin in your life. That's a dumb way to say "Buy low, sell high"

And finally, if your 5 years old can trade commodity using guesstimate and graphs, then he/she is at least 2 steps ahead of you.

lol, I smell a faker on this one.


----------



## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> My friend, any dumb cunt knew Finland and Sweden were not neutral since day one. Russian defectors used to cross into Finland.
> 
> Stop derailing into Africa and shit like that. We are talking real world scenarios here. Have you read the Ukrainian constitution lately? Ukraine not wanting to join NATO? Hahahahhaha Hahahahaha. They were giving lip service buying time. Russia was bullied and lied to for the past 30 years. NATO only respects real power from guns. If you are that blind and naive, I have nothing to say.
> 
> 
> Numb nuts, LNG? Russian gas is sold to Europe in gas form pressurized by compressor stations not in liquid form. Hahaahahaahahahahaha..... Damn I am. Talking to amateurs here. Do you even understand the temperatures the pipes need to be at if it's liquified.


I am not your friend Han 'Patriot'. You retorting to verbal accusations how desperate you are to make your point. It makes you sound pathetic and weak and makes you sound frustrated that your side is not on the winning side (whichever side you are) and likely on the declining side from this point on.

These countries , like Korea, Japan are capitalist democracies. They don't need to be in NATO. They are economically prosperous, people from world over want to move there and their are innovations from these countries that have benefited the world. They have free movement of people from country side to city. They don't need a Huku permit to move from country side to work in city and leave their kids behind because they are not permitted to move to the city.

Yes these countries are firmly in the Western camp, there is no disputing that. This is not a moral argument that their side is better or worse. You don't have to like them, but know they are there and why they continue to exist and remain prosperous.

May be if the million man censor army has gotten you limited view, thats understandable. But these countries were not born yesterday. And Finland kicked Russias butt in the 40s and they would do so again and your side will use in Finland just like its not winning now.

As for your verbal abuses: completely understandable given your frustration that your country will have 20M less women population then men in a few decades, and every woman will marry up so I can see how you will be left out of that race if this abuse is part of that personality.

As for the gas comment: only 10% of Germany's gas is coming from Russia now. May be you can consume the balance to fan your verbal abuse

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## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> Dude, first of all, if any "Analyst" said "Human Impulse" either he needed to be fired on the spot or he fake his college degree. Economic Analyst don't use word like impulse because you can't explain away the trend. "Oh, that's an impulse" if I did that to my boss when I was working on one of the Sydney Think Tank, I will get fired at the spot, you were there to analyse stuff, not to give you an open answer where you cannot explain. My boss can say "Human Impulse" so why do he pay you for.
> 
> Information processing cycle involved taking in raw data, interpret and explore said data, and then process said data, and then dissimilate the finding and finally put it into planning to either release said data or go back to the original mission, this is the cycle whether or not you are doing intelligence analysis with the military or tabulate your economic trend.
> 
> And secondly, you have no idea how commodity works, if you think "You can trade commodity like bitcoin" that means you had neither traded commodity or bitcoin in your life. That's a dumb way to say "Buy low, sell high"
> 
> And finally, if your 5 years old can trade commodity using guesstimate and graphs, then he/she is at least 2 steps ahead of you.
> 
> lol, I smell a faker on this one.



Hahahahah, I still remember boy genius here telling me the war has NO EFFECT on oil and gas prices. Ehmmmm..... So I guess my 5 year is definitely smarter than you. Lol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

dbc said:


> so the worldbank and the IEA are both wrong when they say 150 billion cubic meters of gas was flared in 2019 world wide. But Mr. I know, I'm in O N G insists "..._trust me numb..numb...dumbass_" ..excetra ..excetra...."_i know no one flares gas anymore_ _I'm a stripper in O N G_"...numb numb...dumbass...excetra ...excetra..
> 
> you've been exposed as a liar best you tuck tail and slink away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Natural gas flaring has been a longstanding problem for the oil industry. The most recent data indicate that around *150 billion cubic metres (bcm) of natural gas was flared globally in 2019*, as much gas as Japan and Korea together imported in the same year. Despite rising awareness of the problem, and a number of initiatives aiming to curb flaring, the amount of gas flared globally each year has been edging higher in recent years and the world is now flaring as much as it did ten years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putting gas flaring in the spotlight – Analysis - IEA
> 
> 
> Putting gas flaring in the spotlight - A commentary by Rebecca Schulz, Christophe McGlade, Peter Zeniewski
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iea.org


lol, did you see his replied to me? He claim "His Analyst" friend doing that for 20 years sitting next to him said it was "Human Impulse" Sure, go analyse that.

I worked Military Intelligence for over 3 years, never did I once said "Oh, that's impulse" Why the target come out every Sunday? "I don't know...Impulses?" I will probably be shot right then and there. That mean you don't know why he comes out every Sunday, if you don't know, that's your job as an analyst to find out.

What's Mr Han's doing is what Chinese called 死雞撐飯蓋, a dead chicken prop up rice bow lid. He double down on his failure, you rather keep going that road instead of admitting he is wrong, that way, he doesn't need to admit he is wrong.



Han Patriot said:


> Hahahahah, I still remember boy genius here telling me the war has NO EFFECT on oil and gas prices. Ehmmmm..... So I guess my 5 year is definitely smarter than you. Lol


The War "May" have effect on Brent Crude, not the money you paid at the gas pump, and I have been asking you genius why for like months now, you get me shit back.?

If the war had any impact, do tell me why the price of petrol in the pump cost $1.5 a litre 2 weeks ago, but $2.1 3 months ago? I don't know the war ended 2 weeks ago, and started again last week when it goes back to $1.7, explain the drop to me. Genius.

You didn't even know all effect are one directional. War flare up, price go up, unless the war (the factor within that trend) is taken out, in other word, unless the war is over, the price will not go down, but it did, people with a brain with 5% function will know if War affect price, this WILL NOT HAPPEN. But then beside retort in insult, what do you actually know?? LOL, probably is what you are using that 5% for, amirite?  

I mean, expecting people like you to actually know stuff is like expecting pig to fly or my wife got dressed by a chimpanzee.


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## Soldier35

Published footage of the work of snipers of the National Guard in Ukraine. The main targets for work, commanders and other snipers.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> Numb nuts, LNG? Russian gas is sold to Europe in gas form pressurized by compressor stations not in liquid form. Hahaahahaahahahahaha..... Damn I am. Talking to amateurs here. Do you even understand the temperatures the pipes need to be at if it's liquified.


Laugh and pretend all you want. Then go check out “Portovaya plant” and realize where its located and where the fins take pictures of the flaring.


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## dbc

Han Patriot said:


> My friend, oil and gas output had been increasing for the past few decades, of course flaring would increase but if you study the individual oilfields, the percentage of gas flared is capped at a limit. Do you understand math? If 30 years ago you produce 2 buckets of oil and you flare 1 fart, now you produce 200 buckets and flare 3 farts.



you are truly a shameless liar. 150 billion cubic meters of flared gas in 2019 is equal to three farts according to you. Germany's annual gas consumption is 90 billion cubic meters or 1.6 farts as per your fartometer. The gas flared in 2019 can power Germany for nearly two years, you are a silly joke. @Viet was right all along but you insulted him like a petulant child. Then you insult me repeatedly, you're lucky the mods here have a soft spot for the Chinese and that is the only reason you get away with hurling insults.

We are forced to tolerate your stinky farts. So please show some consideration and stop farting.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dbc

jhungary said:


> lol, did you see his replied to me? He claim "His Analyst" friend doing that for 20 years sitting next to him said it was "Human Impulse" Sure, go analyse that.
> 
> I worked Military Intelligence for over 3 years, never did I once said "Oh, that's impulse" Why the target come out every Sunday? "I don't know...Impulses?" I will probably be shot right then and there. That mean you don't know why he comes out every Sunday, if you don't know, that's your job as an analyst to find out.
> 
> What's Mr Han's doing is what Chinese called 死雞撐飯蓋, a dead chicken prop up rice bow lid. He double down on his failure, you rather keep going that road instead of admitting he is wrong, that way, he doesn't need to admit he is wrong.
> 
> 
> The War "May" have effect on Brent Crude, not the money you paid at the gas pump, and I have been asking you genius why for like months now, you get me shit back.?
> 
> If the war had any impact, do tell me why the price of petrol in the pump cost $1.5 a litre 2 weeks ago, but $2.1 3 months ago? I don't know the war ended 2 weeks ago, and started again last week when it goes back to $1.7, explain the drop to me. Genius.
> 
> You didn't even know all effect are one directional. War flare up, price go up, unless the war (the factor within that trend) is taken out, in other word, unless the war is over, the price will not go down, but it did, people with a brain with 5% function will know if War affect price, this WILL NOT HAPPEN. But then beside retort in insult, what do you actually know?? LOL, probably is what you are using that 5% for, amirite?
> 
> I mean, expecting people like you to actually know stuff is like expecting pig to fly or my wife got dressed by a chimpanzee.


he is not worth our time best to ignore him.


----------



## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> lol, did you see his replied to me? He claim "His Analyst" friend doing that for 20 years sitting next to him said it was "Human Impulse" Sure, go analyse that.
> 
> I worked Military Intelligence for over 3 years, never did I once said "Oh, that's impulse" Why the target come out every Sunday? "I don't know...Impulses?" I will probably be shot right then and there. That mean you don't know why he comes out every Sunday, if you don't know, that's your job as an analyst to find out.
> 
> What's Mr Han's doing is what Chinese called 死雞撐飯蓋, a dead chicken prop up rice bow lid. He double down on his failure, you rather keep going that road instead of admitting he is wrong, that way, he doesn't need to admit he is wrong.
> 
> 
> The War "May" have effect on Brent Crude, not the money you paid at the gas pump, and I have been asking you genius why for like months now, you get me shit back.?
> 
> If the war had any impact, do tell me why the price of petrol in the pump cost $1.5 a litre 2 weeks ago, but $2.1 3 months ago? I don't know the war ended 2 weeks ago, and started again last week when it goes back to $1.7, explain the drop to me. Genius.
> 
> You didn't even know all effect are one directional. War flare up, price go up, unless the war (the factor within that trend) is taken out, in other word, unless the war is over, the price will not go down, but it did, people with a brain with 5% function will know if War affect price, this WILL NOT HAPPEN. But then beside retort in insult, what do you actually know?? LOL, probably is what you are using that 5% for, amirite?
> 
> I mean, expecting people like you to actually know stuff is like expecting pig to fly or my wife got dressed by a chimpanzee.



There is a Chinese saying, the more you explain, the more you know you are covering your mistakes.

So now it's MAY . Few weeks ago, it was Europe stronk, no effect. Ask the Germans now whether it's a MAY.
Gas prices are off the roof now my friend and winter is coming. Lololol.

And I guess how have not heard of the herd mentality in traders huh. Its human impulse working in markets, if you could predict markets, you would be rich all the time. Understand? 



dbc said:


> you are truly a shameless liar. 150 billion cubic meters of flared gas in 2019 is equal to three farts according to you. Germany's annual gas consumption is 90 billion cubic meters or 1.6 farts as per your fartometer. The gas flared in 2019 can power Germany for nearly two years, you are a silly joke. @Viet was right all along but you insulted him like a petulant child. Then you insult me repeatedly, you're lucky the mods here have a soft spot for the Chinese and that is the only reason you get away with hurling insults.
> 
> We are forced to tolerate your stinky farts. So please show some consideration and stop farting.


Smart boy, do you know how many oil assets are there on earth? Are all oil producers following the emission standards? My question is this, WHAT HAS GAS FLARING GOT TO DO WITH THE UKRAINIAN WAR. Until now you are not answering me.

You have no idea about oil production, and the processes involved. I was surprised you don't even know what sweet crude is.... I bet you think you can get diabetes from drinking it right? Lol


----------



## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> I am not your friend Han 'Patriot'. You retorting to verbal accusations how desperate you are to make your point. It makes you sound pathetic and weak and makes you sound frustrated that your side is not on the winning side (whichever side you are) and likely on the declining side from this point on.
> 
> These countries , like Korea, Japan are capitalist democracies. They don't need to be in NATO. They are economically prosperous, people from world over want to move there and their are innovations from these countries that have benefited the world. They have free movement of people from country side to city. They don't need a Huku permit to move from country side to work in city and leave their kids behind because they are not permitted to move to the city.
> 
> Yes these countries are firmly in the Western camp, there is no disputing that. This is not a moral argument that their side is better or worse. You don't have to like them, but know they are there and why they continue to exist and remain prosperous.
> 
> May be if the million man censor army has gotten you limited view, thats understandable. But these countries were not born yesterday. And Finland kicked Russias butt in the 40s and they would do so again and your side will use in Finland just like its not winning now.
> 
> As for your verbal abuses: completely understandable given your frustration that your country will have 20M less women population then men in a few decades, and every woman will marry up so I can see how you will be left out of that race if this abuse is part of that personality.
> 
> As for the gas comment: only 10% of Germany's gas is coming from Russia now. May be you can consume the balance to fan your verbal abuse


I meant to type fiend. Hahahha. So how is Germany faring now with 10% gas from Russia? How are the fish and chip shops doing in UK? What about the fertilizer prices? Russia unlike Europe produces real surplus resources. US has gas but consumes alot as well, so Russia is one of the few resource surplus nations on earth.

Look at what US is trying to do now, an Asian NATO. Japan and Korea are even lower than UK on the poodle scale, they are literally occupied. No Korean President has had the gall to ask Us troops to leave. They are there to 'protect' them. Lolololol. As if 30k soldiers are gonna make a difference. Look at Japan.... Rich but pathetic. Rich in what sense exactly, when the gas shuts, all the paper money on earth can't buy you heat. When the grain stops, you can't eat papers. People just don't undestand money is not wealth. Money is a means of exchange, you need to have something for it to exchange to have value. And if all teh resource and goods provider start to boycott dollars, its as good as toilet paper. The reason why people are using it is because of legacy issues. US still has some legacy technology and the institutions for trade. The dumbest thing to do is sanctioning Russia, it is actually creating an incentive for people to diversify into an alternative trading system. Russia has the energy and raw materials, China has the productive power. You see where I am going here. I would dare say China has the most complete range of technologies, not the most advanced but the most complete.


----------



## Viet

dbc said:


> you are truly a shameless liar. 150 billion cubic meters of flared gas in 2019 is equal to three farts according to you. Germany's annual gas consumption is 90 billion cubic meters or 1.6 farts as per your fartometer. The gas flared in 2019 can power Germany for nearly two years, you are a silly joke. @Viet was right all along but you insulted him like a petulant child. Then you insult me repeatedly, you're lucky the mods here have a soft spot for the Chinese and that is the only reason you get away with hurling insults.
> 
> We are forced to tolerate your stinky farts. So please show some consideration and stop farting.


Yes Germany consumes 90 bcm gas per year with 40 pct coming from Russia. billion of billion euros go to Moscow. They burn the gas off or in simple words flush it down the toilet in my opinion because
- incompetence
- lack of infrastructure
- western sanction
- stupidity
- deliberate act
In this case most likely the deliberate act to create a shortage on the gas market with the aim to pushing higher gas prices.


----------



## TNT

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ethiopia's population boomed due to food paid for by UN. Their population is too big for their own resources to support. UN never should have created the mess to begin with. UN never should have artificially inflated Ethiopia's population in the first place and endangering the lives of millions. This fault rests on the shoulders of UN. And now it is time for UN to acknowledge its own wrongdoing. A smaller responsibility lies with America which started war in 2014 in Ukraine on the back of Euro Maidan. Without Euro Maidan, there would be peace in Europe.
> 
> UN defied mother nature. And when you defy mother nature, sooner or later mother nature will slap you in the bottom for being naughty.



Can someone plz ban this idiot again. The moment this moron is unbanned he comes with his dumb crap and splashes it all over the forum.

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## Han Patriot

MeFishToo said:


> Laugh and pretend all you want. Then go check out “Portovaya plant” and realize where its located and where the fins take pictures of the flaring.



That plant has not been completed and is used to supply Kaliningrad and for exports to other markets. What has it got to do with gas supplied to Ukraine which is delivered through PIPELINES. Are you so dumb to think people sell gas in pipelines using LNG? Haahahahahhahahahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahhahaahahahaahahahaahahahahahahahaha.

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> I meant to type fiend. Hahahha. So how is Germany faring now with 10% gas from Russia? How are the fish and chip shops doing in UK? What about the fertilizer prices? Russia unlike Europe produces real surplus resources. US has gas but consumes alot as well, so Russia is one of the few resource surplus nations on earth.
> 
> Look at what US is trying to do now, an Asian NATO. Japan and Korea are even lower than UK on the poodle scale, they are literally occupied. No Korean President has had the gall to ask Us troops to leave. They are there to 'protect' them. Lolololol. As if 30k soldiers are gonna make a difference. Look at Japan.... Rich but pathetic. Rich in what sense exactly, when the gas shuts, all the paper money on earth can't buy you heat. When the grain stops, you can't eat papers. People just don't undestand money is not wealth. Money is a means of exchange, you need to have something for it to exchange to have value. And if all teh resource and goods provider start to boycott dollars, its as good as toilet paper. The reason why people are using it is because of legacy issues. US still has some legacy technology and the institutions for trade. The dumbest thing to do is sanctioning Russia, it is actually creating an incentive for people to diversify into an alternative trading system. Russia has the energy and raw materials, China has the productive power. You see where I am going here. I would dare say China has the most complete range of technologies, not the most advanced but the most complete.


You are too primitive. This gas blackmail by Putin is not going to last forever. People don’t sit idle. in the case of Germany this shortage will be overcome by next year when 4 Lng terminals are completed. Many other steps including hydrogen terminals, hydrogen factories, gas rationing, reactivating coal plants, more solar/wind power will reduce gas dependency further.

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Smart boy, your friend is referring to all flaring done IN THE WHOLE WORLD not Russia alone. Its uneconomical to sell stranded gas thts why in the old days they flare it. With or without Ukraine, they will still flare it. Imagine a well located in the middle of the Atlantic, with oil you can transport it with tankers, how are you gonna transport the small amount of gas? Build a pipeline subsea 2000km? You can only use FLNG but so far there are only 2 on earth and it fcking expensive. So people need to do a cost benefit analysis. It's not as if Russia is flarieng because they can't sell gas in a fcking pipeline. THEY FCKING JUST SHUT THE VALVE. It's literally that simple.


Lame excuse
The flame I posted was inland, not middle on ocean.
For other wells I am pretty sure you can solve this problem technically. You can’t use your laziness as excuse, hey we do it since hundred years we continue to do it now. Where is your brain? Do something against global warming!


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Lame excuse
> The flame I posted was inland, not middle on ocean.
> For other wells I am pretty sure you can solve this problem technically. You can’t use your laziness as excuse, hey we do it since hundred years we continue to do it now. Where is your brain? Do something against global warming!


It's doesn't matter if its inland or ocean, if you only hav3 a small amount of stranded gas and the gas consumption center is far, the cost of the pipeline alone will overwhelm the profit from the gas sale. Geesshh, fine let's say you have a gas field in the middle of siberia with 100 barrels worth of gas, the nearest town is 500km away, and the cost of pipeline is 1 billion. Are you gonna fcking build that? You fcking reinject the gas to get the oil out and sell the oil which can be transported using trucks. This is what happens when you explain technical things to liberal arts kids.


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## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> There is a Chinese saying, the more you explain, the more you know you are covering your mistakes.


This describe you very well.

And again, no Analyst will EVER use human impulse, it's like insurance people come up with act of god. Again, that term is something you cannot explained, which mean it have zero data value, interpreting data is NOT at all predicting anything, that's the job for the marketing people, which uses the information analyst collected to predict trend, analyst job is to interpret the data, to either make it make sense or have it go back to the collection stage as I laid out 2 post ago, if you failed to even distinguish both terms, then well, I was gonna say you don't belong in this field, but then you weren't.....

And the rest of your post is just a giant LOL

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> It's doesn't matter if its inland or ocean, if you only hav3 a small amount of stranded gas and the gas consumption center is far, the cost of the pipeline alone will overwhelm the profit from the gas sale. Geesshh, fine let's say you have a gas field in the middle of siberia with 100 barrels worth of gas, the nearest town is 500km away, and the cost of pipeline is 1 billion. Are you gonna fcking build that? You fcking reinject the gas to get the oil out and sell the oil which can be transported using trucks. This is what happens when you explain technical things to liberal arts kids.


The flame burns gas worth $10 million per day, $3.560 million per year. $3 56 billion is small amount? Oh I forgot chinese are rich.

Your point with pipeline cost is rediculous. What is higher? $1 billion per pipeline is higher than $3 billion waste gas burning?

If just small amount of gas let’s say less than $1 million then ok economically.


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## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> My friend, any dumb cunt knew Finland and Sweden were not neutral since day one. Russian defectors used to cross into Finland.


There is a massive difference between being outside of the defense pact or within. 
Outside, you can influence and pressure them. Even use the military.
This is why russia has been shutting of gas and threathening them with nukes….for russia it IS a big deal. 

With russias actions, they have made Nato see the biggest expansion in decades, made europe double their defence spending (dwarfing russia in regards to nato even more), alienated their biggest oil/gas customers, and pushed ukraine completely towards the west. 

Was Putins “peter the great” dream worth it?


----------



## TNT

Why are the westerners and their chamchas here constantly derailing the thread? Can u guys take ur dumb and useless arguments somewhere else a let this thread be about the war news and development. I have to go through tons of ur crap to find an update. @mods plz ban those who r not contributing with news and just here to cheerlead.


----------



## Viet

To sum up. The war is entering stalemate. Minimum gains by either sides here and there. Extensive artillery war along entire front line. Russia invasion started Feb 24. The maximum territory expansion by Russia invasion army reached about one month later Mar 24.
Since then Ukraine has retaken the size of Denmark. Ukraine get increasing military strength by more western weapons. Russia trying to recruit more soldiers, high precision weapons running low.
Now both sides preparing the winter war.









Gebiet Cherson - Ukraine meldet Angriff auf russische Kommandoposten


Das ukrainische Militär hat nach eigenen Angaben im Gebiet Cherson im Süden des Landes russische Kommandoposten und Munitionsdepots angegriffen.




www.deutschlandfunk.de










Ukrainische Soldaten im Einsatz – hier im Osten des Landes. (Archivbild) (dpa / Ukrinform )


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> The flame burns gas worth $10 million per day, $3.560 million per year. $3 56 billion is small amount? Oh I forgot chinese are rich.
> 
> Your point with pipeline cost is rediculous. What is higher? $1 billion per pipeline is higher than $3 billion waste gas burning?
> 
> If just small amount of gas let’s say less than $1 million then ok economically.


First ask why is the flame burning? Is it because you can't sell LNG to Ukriane? Hahaahahahah. For the last friggin time, Russia does not sell LNG to Ukriane using pipelines.

Gosh. It's a plant under construction, you could have a commissioning issue or disruption and they need to flare it to restart the system NOT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SELL GAS TO UKRAINE. Look at the area of flaring, is it a gas or oil field? You don't know the difference do you? Gas not sold is not money, gas stuck in commissioning is not money, it is liability if you don't flare it. And why are they even building a LNG? It tells me they are planning to ship the LNG using marine route to other markets like China maybe? Lolol. You could say Russia is having commissioning issues with the plant but claiming they are flaring because they shut their pipelines is the dumbest thing ever.

Next for how long are they flaring? Are they gonna flare for 365 days? Normally commissioning takes a few months and how much flaring will takes place? Do you know? And btw how did they even come up with the gas quantity, by looking at the flame? It's could even be off spec gas all I know. Can you tell the difference between a 90% methane gas and a 70% butane gas?


----------



## nangyale

jhungary said:


> So effectively you are saying you know nothing about oil and gas market. Because you ARE NOT that analyst, otherwise you would have said *YOU ARE* that guy.
> 
> *And I have been trading commodity probably since you are in primary school, son*. Are you really that dumb?? But hey, most of your "Credential" are probably fake anyway, how do people "Work" in that field get all the stuff wrong, like all the time, and no answer but superficial one liner when asked about question you claim to have known?
> 
> LOL.........
> 
> 
> I wouldn't take anyone seriously if they start the conversation with "Numb Nuts" or "Numb Numb" not even my 12 years old cousin talks like that, and he want to be a rapper.
> 
> That dude has an emotion quotient of probably 5. Thinking insult people would make his point looks more valid, Well, it could be if he has a point to begin with. I am just here to poke him some more so he said stupid things here to further insult himself.......


So you were dealing commodities from the battlefields of Afghanistan?

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## Han Patriot

nangyale said:


> So you were dealing commodities from the battlefields of Afghanistan?


I have heard him being an oil trader to a quantum scientist to Intel officer to gay stripper. You tell me man. Lolol. 

Btw, he was in college when I what sapped him few years back. I had alrwdy been working for maybe 10 12 years by then.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564143972880191490


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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> First ask why is the flame burning? Is it because you can't sell LNG to Ukriane? Hahaahahahah. For the last friggin time, Russia does not sell LNG to Ukriane using pipelines.
> 
> Gosh. It's a plant under construction, you could have a commissioning issue or disruption and they need to flare it to restart the system NOT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SELL GAS TO UKRAINE. Look at the area of flaring, is it a gas or oil field? You don't know the difference do you? Gas not sold is not money, gas stuck in commissioning is not money, it is liability if you don't flare it. And why are they even building a LNG? It tells me they are planning to ship the LNG using marine route to other markets like China maybe? Lolol. You could say Russia is having commissioning issues with the plant but claiming they are flaring because they shut their pipelines is the dumbest thing ever.
> 
> Next for how long are they flaring? Are they gonna flare for 365 days? Normally commissioning takes a few months and how much flaring will takes place? Do you know?
> 
> And again, gas not sold is not money, you have no way to sell it anyway, hence you have Germanies whole year consumption flared. Get it?


You can’t read. I said the russians burn it because not wanting to sell it to Germany. Nothing with Ukraine. There is a direct gas pipeline between Russia and Germany in case you don’t know. Gazprom has reduced gas volume to Germany by 80 percent. Where is this gas now? Impossible to sell this 80 percent to China.

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> You can’t read. I said the russians burn it because not wanting to sell it to Germany. Nothing with Ukraine. There is a direct gas pipeline between Russia and Germany in case you don’t know. Gazprom has reduced gas volume to Germany by 80 percent. Where is this gas now? Impossible to sell this 80 percent to China.



They are flaring the gas they don't sell to Germany or are they are flaring the gas in an LNG plant under commissioning. Could it be from the same field, who knows. The question is this, imagine Russia is still selling 100% gas to Germany and is commissioning tht new plant and needed to flare. With or without selling to Germany, they would have flared commissioning a new LNG plant. Its actually normal. Do you get the logic here?

Btw whether it's Ukriane or Germany, Russia still doesn't sell LNG in a pipeline to Germany or Ukriane. LNG was created to replace pipelines genius


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> They are flaring the gas they don't sell to Germany or are they are flaring the gas in an LNG plant under commissioning. Could it be from the same field, who knows. The question is this, imagine Russia is still selling 100% gas to Germany and is commissioning tht new plant and needed to flare. With or without selling to Germany, they would have flared commissioning a new LNG plant. Its actually normal. Do you get the logic here?
> 
> Btw whether it's Ukriane or Germany, Russia still doesn't sell LNG in a pipeline to Germany or Ukriane. LNG was created to replace pipelines genius


You are dumb because you blindly believe russian propaganda shit. North stream 1 has gas injection station, exactly the location where the flame burning. No, Lng is economically more expensive than gas pipeline. You said you work in oil and gas industry?
No, there is no reasonable ground why Gazprom reduces gas flow by 80 pct while burning it.









Russland verbrennt große Mengen Gas


Nahe der Pipeline Nord Stream 1 brennt Russland große Mengen Erdgas ab, das offenbar für den Export nach Deutschland bestimmt war. Von Finnland aus ist eine riesige Flamme zu sehen. Experten sprechen von einer Umweltkatastrophe.




www.tagesschau.de

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## jhungary

nangyale said:


> So you were dealing commodities from the battlefields of Afghanistan?


First of all, I was dealing commodity since when I was in College and hobby I picked up from my mother, I don't spend my entire adult life in Afghanistan, I don't live there. How dumb are you exactly?

And secondly, FYI, you can deal commodity at base, and yes, I was dealing Commodity when I was in Afghanistan, ever heard of the term "Internet"? It's a thing in 2005 and 2006. Commodity price is not p0rn or restrictive information, you are allowed to access even when you are sitting in a PX in Afghanistan, it also comes with Newspaper, another thing available in Afghanistan.

It's like asking people can you trade stock when you are deployed in Afghanistan, you don't go physically on trading floor in NYSE to issue buy/sell order, there are someone called "Agent" to do it for you, fighting a war is not 24/7 business, you are going to have down time, some people like to jerk off while thinking about their boy/girl friend at home when they are at base, some people want to earn extra money while they have nothing to do with their time. how dumb is that question?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564185456568311809

Reports that Ukrainians have broken through Russias first line of defense near Kherson.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564194589300457475

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## Broccoli

Primus said:


> Don't be so naive



Cool story. 

Got any evidence that there are regular western forces in Ukraine fighting against Russians? I didn't see any.


----------



## Broccoli

Viet said:


> You are too primitive. This gas blackmail by Putin is not going to last forever. People don’t sit idle. in the case of Germany this shortage will be overcome by next year when 4 Lng terminals are completed. Many other steps including hydrogen terminals, hydrogen factories, gas rationing, reactivating coal plants, more solar/wind power will reduce gas dependency further.



Generally people in highly authoritarian countries, especilly those who want expansion via war, have primitive ways of thinking almost as if they were living in 1700's.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564174614338600962
It seems there was intense attacks against Russian positions in Kherson today,something's probably happening


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564203182770774018

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564195736128028672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564205526417907712

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564200959127035905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564179664100286464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564179302354149376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564207380061376512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564213327462649856


https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1564182983631831042





Broccoli said:


> Cool story.
> 
> Got any evidence that there are regular western forces in Ukraine fighting against Russians? I didn't see any.



It is proxy war. America spends more money in Ukraine war than in Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564185456568311809
> 
> Reports that Ukrainians have broken through Russias first line of defense near Kherson.



BS. Kherson is the just about the most heavily defended city in the world about now. You need at least 1,000 M1A2 tanks for a possible Kherson offensive.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564205236855734272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564202579952812033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564201175372759041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564197848681484289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564194672616038400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564213327462649856


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564162473212649474

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564126690820890625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564178354395402240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563782581027577857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564226015735463936


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564222800432435206

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564227737316982787

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564227947942248449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564230440705196032


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564183357885501440

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563482184778149889

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564239155735019520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564223680883920896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564231184485425152


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## nangyale

jhungary said:


> First of all, I was dealing commodity since when I was in College and hobby I picked up from my mother, I don't spend my entire adult life in Afghanistan, I don't live there. How dumb are you exactly?
> 
> And secondly, FYI, you can deal commodity at base, and yes, I was dealing Commodity when I was in Afghanistan, ever heard of the term "Internet"? It's a thing in 2005 and 2006. Commodity price is not p0rn or restrictive information, you are allowed to access even when you are sitting in a PX in Afghanistan, it also comes with Newspaper, another thing available in Afghanistan.
> 
> It's like asking people can you trade stock when you are deployed in Afghanistan, you don't go physically on trading floor in NYSE to issue buy/sell order, there are someone called "Agent" to do it for you, fighting a war is not 24/7 business, you are going to have down time, some people like to jerk off while thinking about their boy/girl friend at home when they are at base, some people want to earn extra money while they have nothing to do with their time. how dumb is that question?


Chill dude, why so touchy?

I was just admiring your many talents and infinite experiences.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564257089291165699

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564252255255248897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564185215840526337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564164441201164288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564256903261306880

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jhungary

nangyale said:


> Chill dude, why so touchy?
> 
> I was just admiring your many talents and infinite experiences.


Well, seems to me you are the one that's touchy, I mean, I am not the one that ask 90 questions.

I mean, how much experience one need to pick up a phone and tell your broker to buy and sell stuff? I mean even my 18 years old cousin can manage that, are you telling me you can't??  

Only dumbasses go after the person instead of what they said, now tell me, are you a dumbass? I mean believe it, not believe it, I don't really care, nobody is pointing a gun at your head telling you that you need to believe everything I have to say, you discuss the topic I put forward, not the background I put forward. And if I am a fake, it's very easy to take down what I said, am I right?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564254404030746626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564253950890606595

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564253076835315712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564252678468796416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564247717752311810


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564261672159612928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564194589300457475


----------



## nangyale

jhungary said:


> Well, seems to me you are the one that's touchy, I mean, I am not the one that ask 90 questions.
> 
> I mean, how much experience one need to pick up a phone and tell your broker to buy and sell stuff? I mean even my 18 years old cousin can manage that, are you telling me you can't??
> 
> Only dumbasses go after the person instead of what they said, now tell me, are you a dumbass? I mean believe it, not believe it, I don't really care, nobody is pointing a gun at your head telling you that you need to believe everything I have to say, you discuss the topic I put forward, not the background I put forward. And if I am a fake, it's very easy to take down what I said, am I right?


Not much. I mean ofcourse you are a commodity dealer, who am I to disagree. 

Now carry on your on with your expert opinions about gas flaring. The unquestionable knowledge and expertise you have gained from eToro.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jhungary

nangyale said:


> Now carry on your on with your expert opinions about gas flaring. The unquestionable knowledge and expertise you have gained from eToro.



You get the wrong person bud, I know shit about Gas Flaring, it's @dbc who was talking about gas flaring. I talked about Oil and Gas Price, which is where commodity trade is from, I mean, what kind of genius would think Commodity Trade have anything to do with burning off excessive gas??

Unlike someone here, if I don't know shit, I said I don't know, I don't pretend to be a know it all, and I certainly will not go after what people said they are instead of what they said, it's stupid and dumb because it mostly going to come back and burn you as you must have know shit otherwise you would have talk about the stuff, instead of what did that guy claim to be.

And eToro don't do commodity last time I check a long time ago. And it's shit anyway, use Plus 500 if you really want some game.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564255777782628353


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564264919125696514

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Viet

In the Czech capital of Prag Olaf Scholz presents a new action plan on more security for Europe

- an united air defense covering Germany with immediate neighbors Poland, the Baltics and Netherlands (Other may join later).

- european army with Germany 5,000 men brigade building the core

- building artillery and air defense for Ukraine





__





"Sicherheitsgewinn für alle": Scholz will neues Luftverteidigungssystem für Europa - n-tv.de


Der russische Angriffskrieg gegen die Ukraine stellt alte Gewissheiten auf den Kopf. Um für Aggressionen gewappnet zu sein, braucht es nach Ansicht von Kanzler Scholz europäische Lösungen. Neben einem EU-Hauptquartier will er deshalb auch eine gemeinsame Luftverteidigung aufbauen.



amp.n-tv.de


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Scholz presents a new action plan on more security for Europe
> 
> - an united air defense covering Germany with immediate neighbors Poland, the Baltics and Netherlands. Other can join.
> 
> - european army with Germany 5,000 men brigade building the core
> 
> - building artillery and air defense for Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Sicherheitsgewinn für alle": Scholz will neues Luftverteidigungssystem für Europa - n-tv.de
> 
> 
> Der russische Angriffskrieg gegen die Ukraine stellt alte Gewissheiten auf den Kopf. Um für Aggressionen gewappnet zu sein, braucht es nach Ansicht von Kanzler Scholz europäische Lösungen. Neben einem EU-Hauptquartier will er deshalb auch eine gemeinsame Luftverteidigung aufbauen.
> 
> 
> 
> amp.n-tv.de



No money for that. Too expensive. Especially during pandemic. In this case, the pandemic is forever.


----------



## Viet

the Germans call it “Ringtausch”.
Leopard tanks against Soviet T72 tanks.
The Czech receive 14 Leo from Germany, in turn they give all T72s to Ukraine.
Big business, the former Washaw pact countries give up their entire Soviet weapons to Ukraine, then as compensation they receive German tanks and other weapons. Or from the Nato.
















Ringtausch: Tschechien erhält deutsche Leopard-2-Panzer


Deutschland und Tschechien haben beim Besuch von Bundeskanzler Scholz den geplanten Panzer-Ringtausch zugunsten der Ukraine unter Dach und Fach gebracht. Die ersten deutschen Leopard 2 sollen noch vor dem Jahresende nach Tschechien geliefert werden.




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564275364620386310

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564282731420438529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564284068690366466


Viet said:


> the Germans call it “Ringtausch”.
> Leopard tanks against Soviet T72 tanks.
> The Czech receive 14 Leo from Germany, in turn they give all T72s to Ukraine.
> Big business, the former Washaw pact countries give up their entire Soviet weapons to Ukraine, then as compensation they receive German tanks and other weapons. Or from the Nato.
> 
> 
> View attachment 874760
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringtausch: Tschechien erhält deutsche Leopard-2-Panzer
> 
> 
> Deutschland und Tschechien haben beim Besuch von Bundeskanzler Scholz den geplanten Panzer-Ringtausch zugunsten der Ukraine unter Dach und Fach gebracht. Die ersten deutschen Leopard 2 sollen noch vor dem Jahresende nach Tschechien geliefert werden.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de



Not a good strategy to give all T-72 all at once. This is the first forever war in human history. They give all this year. Next year no tank to give.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564273083912962049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564262485074612226


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564275364620386310
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564282731420438529
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564284068690366466
> 
> 
> Not a good strategy to give all T-72 all at once. This is the first forever war in human history. They give all this year. Next year no tank to give.


You might be right. The war between France and England was more than 100 years before it ended. Maybe this Ukraine-Russia war will be longer.
“Une guerre sans fin”.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> You might be right. The war between France and England was more than 100 years before it ended. Maybe this Ukraine-Russia war will be longer.



This is the first forever war in human history. As such, it is forever. Previous wars were ended by negotiation. There is no negotiation, so this war is forever and is different from any previous war.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563942131139579905


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564229847580286976


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564293356070526984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564291462870745088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564286171949277184


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564306044704227328


----------



## Viet

Ukraine army group begins the long anticipated southern offensive. It says the first line of defense of Russia army group at Cherson is taken.










Ereignisse im Russland-Ukraine-Krieg aus KW 36 im Rückblick


Entwicklungen, Reaktionen und Nachrichten zum Russland-Ukraine vom 05. August bis 11. September im Rückblick.




www.br.de

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564309426240196609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564309428840661002

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564301803033972743

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564301804682321920


Viet said:


> Ukraine army group begins the long anticipated southern offensive. It says the first line of defense of Russia army group at Cherson is taken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ereignisse im Russland-Ukraine-Krieg aus KW 36 im Rückblick
> 
> 
> Entwicklungen, Reaktionen und Nachrichten zum Russland-Ukraine vom 05. August bis 11. September im Rückblick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.br.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 874781



Fake.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine artillery attacking the entire southern front. Seems Ukraine army means serious.
The main goal is liberating Cherson.






Ukrainian soldiers fire 2S7 Pion self-propelled guns in Ukraine's Donetsk region on August


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564309605366235137
what air defense doin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564322326447095808

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Ahmadbhutta01

The way things are going it looks like Ukraine will end up getting nuked eventually, and the zio-jew pm and president of Ukraine will escape to Israel saying THATS ALL FOLKS

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## The SC



Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

Good news

Germany natural gas reserves is reaching higher level than expected. soon the reserves probably in October or November will reach 100 percent.

The gas price has collapsed on the news. Minus 40 euros.

Reactions: Love Love:
2


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## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> That plant has not been completed and is used to supply Kaliningrad and for exports to other markets. What has it got to do with gas supplied to Ukraine which is delivered through PIPELINES. Are you so dumb to think people sell gas in pipelines using LNG? Haahahahahhahahahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahhahaahahahaahahahaahahahahahahahaha.


Its an example of Russia flairing extreme amounts of gas, most probably because of operational issues. I know the LNG plant isnt completed. I was just pointing out where the flairing has been taking place for months.
You may know in theory how Russia should operate its gas fields and pipelines (eventhough you behave like a trainee). Maybe you should offer your expertise to the russians, it seems theyve been missing something. I have a feeling this is somehow a result of the sanctions and western oil and service companies leaving Russia.


----------



## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564309426240196609
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564309428840661002
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564301803033972743
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564301804682321920
> 
> 
> Fake.


I am sure the russians can show some proof of that massacre of 50+ armor and 500+ infantry killed. 

The only fake news is that shyte from russian twitterbots your spamming over and over


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564345538157416449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564333690976702466


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564371118949023744


----------



## dbc

MeFishToo said:


> Its an example of Russia flairing extreme amounts of gas, most probably because of operational issues. I know the LNG plant isnt completed. I was just pointing out where the flairing has been taking place for months.
> You may know in theory how Russia should operate its gas fields and pipelines (eventhough you behave like a trainee). Maybe you should offer your expertise to the russians, it seems theyve been missing something. I have a feeling this is somehow a result of the sanctions and western oil and service companies leaving Russia.



here is an explanation to those interested as to why operators don't simply stop producing oil/gas when they deplete storage and can't sell the oil/gas in reserves quickly enough to make room for oil/gas being extracted from production wells.
There is no doubt that the Russians can't find alternate buyers for the gas they once piped to Europe via Nordstream. The Chinese pipelines can't cope with the volumes and the Russians don't have enough LNG terminals or LNG carriers to ship the gas to interested parties.

I think it's time to put the silly uninformed notions of Mr Han to bed.


The temporary shutting in of wells is the one thing that oil companies are trying to avoid at all costs. That’s because restarting production is expensive and wells are not guaranteed to return to their flow rate. The doubts are so great that some experts wonder whether the current round of shut downs, far from preserving the resource, won’t accelerate oil depletion instead. *Some Russian engineers are even considering burning excess oil, rather than downsizing production.*









Shutting Down Oil Wells, a Risky and Expensive Option


The temporary shutting in of wells is the one thing that oil companies are trying to avoid at all costs. That's because restarting production is expensive




www.resilience.org


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564353035589095428


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564323096965914626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564330673418248200


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564321415393935365

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564321658776834048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564321913824051201

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564343304984084481


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564377488456925184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564360011014348801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564356144017063945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564289261066674182


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564362274864865281

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564301453040156672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564135167769411584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564306194960875522

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564344323038224384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564130711505977345

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> The way things are going it looks like Ukraine will end up getting nuked eventually, and the zio-jew pm and president of Ukraine will escape to Israel saying THATS ALL FOLKS


It would be stupid for Russia to nuke Ukraine. 

Ukraine is big, but they aren't that big, it's 500miles across, with Moscow around 300 miles from Kharkiv. Where are you going to nuke if you don't want radioactive material to blow back at you?

Nuking West Ukraine, you are going to have Fallout shroud over Poland, would NATO be okay with that? Nuking Northern Ukraine it will blow toward Belarus, nuke Eastern Ukraine the fallout will blow back toward Russia. 

Ask yourself this question, would NATO or Russia themselves okay with Fallout going over their territories? It doesn't matter if that is a 500kt device or 5kt tactical nuke, it still gets fallout in the end and you can't control where the wind blow.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564397459736072192


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

jhungary said:


> It would be stupid for Russia to nuke Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine is big, but they aren't that big, it's 500miles across, with Moscow around 300 miles from Kharkiv. Where are you going to nuke if you don't want radioactive material to blow back at you?
> 
> Nuking West Ukraine, you are going to have Fallout shroud over Poland, would NATO be okay with that? Nuking Northern Ukraine it will blow toward Belarus, nuke Eastern Ukraine the fallout will blow back toward Russia.
> 
> Ask yourself this question, would NATO or Russia themselves okay with Fallout going over their territories? It doesn't matter if that is a 500kt device or 5kt tactical nuke, it still gets fallout in the end and you can't control where the wind blow.


Perhaps u are not aware of the fall out of nuclear attack. U perhaps think a nuke attack is a destruction of a country , a tactical nuke may have an impact on around d 3-5 sq meter not more than that .


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> You are dumb because you blindly believe russian propaganda shit. North stream 1 has gas injection station, exactly the location where the flame burning. No, Lng is economically more expensive than gas pipeline. You said you work in oil and gas industry?
> No, there is no reasonable ground why Gazprom reduces gas flow by 80 pct while burning it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russland verbrennt große Mengen Gas
> 
> 
> Nahe der Pipeline Nord Stream 1 brennt Russland große Mengen Erdgas ab, das offenbar für den Export nach Deutschland bestimmt war. Von Finnland aus ist eine riesige Flamme zu sehen. Experten sprechen von einer Umweltkatastrophe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de


You accused me of believing in Russian propaganda, but have you ever thought that maybe you were fed half truths by the msm to justify the war! Come on both Russia and the West are guilty of bullshit propaganda. Remember the Ghost of Kiev? Lololol. The key is use some critical thinking to know the truth and truth is normally half way in between.

Let us dissect your argument, firstly do we know how long it has been flaming, what was being flamed? Was it offspec gas? FFS, we need specialised metering skids and gas spectrometers to know the quality of the gas and the amount of gas. But msm can just guesstimate by looking at the flame from space?

That's what I had been telling you, NOBODY SELLS LNG IN A PIPELINE BECAUSE ITS EXPENSIVE. You need to insulate the pipes and use very expensive alloy for the pipes. Therefore what has a LNG plant flaring got to do with pipeline supply to Germany?

For the nth fcking time, you just fcking close a few valves, you don't have to burn it if you don't want to sell it. Can you understand simple science? You are not selling tacos here. Tacos can go bad if you don't sell it. Gas doesn't go bad, you fcking close the valves and tahts it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Han Patriot

MeFishToo said:


> Its an example of Russia flairing extreme amounts of gas, most probably because of operational issues. I know the LNG plant isnt completed. I was just pointing out where the flairing has been taking place for months.
> You may know in theory how Russia should operate its gas fields and pipelines (eventhough you behave like a trainee). Maybe you should offer your expertise to the russians, it seems theyve been missing something. I have a feeling this is somehow a result of the sanctions and western oil and service companies leaving Russia.


How extreme? Do you have a flowmeter to measure the flow? Do you know what was flared? Do you have a mass spectrometer to know the quality of the gas? Was it offspec gas? Toxic gas? Residual gas? If someone can just look from space and know what was flared and how much was flared, then alot of instrument companies would be out of business. Then I wouldn't ned to buy multimillion dollar metering skids right?

Months? Was it intermittent flaring? Just because a journalist with no technical background claims something, you need to check the claims. In the old days rigs used to flare everyday, but for only 30 mins. And they flare mostly offspec gas which is basically low quality gas mixed with toxic gases which they can't sell.

I have been trying very had to explain to idiots here, LNG is not delivered using pipeline, its delivered using LNG carriers and normally is located at the coast, the carriers bring them to market no matter how far because of economics of scale, it is profitable. Then the gas is regasifeid at the client plant. Get it. That LNG plant has NOTHING TO DO WITH PIPELINE SUPPLY TO EUROPE. Its not easy commissioning a plant and flaring is normal. Experts flare less, amateurs more. Lolol


----------



## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Perhaps u are not aware of the fall out of nuclear attack. U perhaps think a nuke attack is a destruction of a country , a tactical nuke may have an impact on around d 3-5 sq meter not more than that .


Dude, even a Vietnam era 155 shell Nuclear Artillery have effect a lot more than 3 to 5 sq meters (that's smaller than a house) effect. The smallest Nuclear Artillery shell Russia have (or had) is 3BV3 which uses 152mm warhead, that artillery shell is 1kt, it would have 500 meters ionised radiation of 1000 Rad (Typical Fatal Dosage), and that's the smallest nuclear artillery shell they had. The other are 3BV1, 3BV2 and 3BV4, which based on 204 and 300mm shell.

Russia don't have Nuclear Artillery Shell (At least they claim), all they have for tactical usage are either kiloton munition (eg Dirty Bomb) or missile up to 10 kilotons

Sub Kiloton munition did exist (at least with US) but those aren't for Tactical Purpose, it's more like Surgical Assassination type Direct Action Mission (Like Airdrop JDAM or Drone Strike) but those weapons still would have greater effect range than 3 to 5 sq. meters. It would have been able to take out an entire block (so at least 100 sq. meters) Even if such weapon with 3 to 5 sq meters range exist, you would have been better off stick with Thermobaric Weapon or even dumb bomb have more AOE than that.

Talk about not aware of the fallout......


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564319757687554048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564323572662915072


----------



## Han Patriot

dbc said:


> here is an explanation to those interested as to why operators don't simply stop producing oil/gas when they deplete storage and can't sell the oil/gas in reserves quickly enough to make room for oil/gas being extracted from production wells.
> There is no doubt that the Russians can't find alternate buyers for the gas they once piped to Europe via Nordstream. The Chinese pipelines can't cope with the volumes and the Russians don't have enough LNG terminals or LNG carriers to ship the gas to interested parties.
> 
> I think it's time to put the silly uninformed notions of Mr Han to bed.
> 
> 
> The temporary shutting in of wells is the one thing that oil companies are trying to avoid at all costs. That’s because restarting production is expensive and wells are not guaranteed to return to their flow rate. The doubts are so great that some experts wonder whether the current round of shut downs, far from preserving the resource, won’t accelerate oil depletion instead. *Some Russian engineers are even considering burning excess oil, rather than downsizing production.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shutting Down Oil Wells, a Risky and Expensive Option
> 
> 
> The temporary shutting in of wells is the one thing that oil companies are trying to avoid at all costs. That's because restarting production is expensive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.resilience.org



Considering? So are they burning it? Dude, oil is money and easily transportable this article sounds like propaganda to give some copium to the freezing European balls.

My friend, a LNG terminal needs to be somewhat close to the gas fields, you don't fcking pipe gas to Vladisvostok and liquefy it right? At least you have some fundamental undestaidng of LNG.

If they don't sell gas to Germany then just don't sell it. In accounting terms you might have lost sale, but lost sale does not equals loss in real economics, it's just delayed profit. Gas still stays in the ground. The only loss I can see is restarting cost and some equipment depreciation. But what has an LNG plant flaring for to do with pipeline supply to Europe. It's not as if they burn gas they can't sell to Europe. They are having commissioning upsets which has nothing to do with the European pipeline. For the nth fcking time, YOU CAN ISOLATE GAS SUPPLY WITH JUST A VALVE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO FCKING FLARE It. You know what is a Christmas's tree right? Faster go Google. Lolol


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564398046431133696


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564319757687554048
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564323572662915072



Fake news.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## dbc

Han Patriot said:


> For the nth fcking time, YOU CAN ISOLATE GAS SUPPLY WITH JUST A VALVE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO FCKING FLARE It. You know what is a Christmas's tree right? Faster go Google. Lolol



You are back for some more punishment. You must be a masochist use google if you don't know what it means. You can shut in a well using the the shut off value on the Christmas tree for a week before you begin to damage the formation permanently. Pressure builds in the formation and can increase at rate of up to 1,000 psi per hour at the well head, most Christmas trees are rated for max 15,000 psi. If you shut in production for longer you will not only damage the formation but also permanently damage the down hole assembly and equipment. And if the wellhead is on a pad you will damage other wells in the area.

To stop production for longer than a week or two with any hope of recovery at prior peak production rates in the future you need to pump mud to stabilize pressure in the formation and then plug and abandon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Han Patriot

dbc said:


> You are back for some more punishment. You must be a masochist use google if you don't know what it means. You can shut in a well using the the shut off value on the Christmas tree for a week before you begin to damage the formation permanently. Pressure builds in the formation and can increase at rate of up to 1,000 psi per hour at the well head, most Christmas trees are rated for max 15,000 psi. If you shut in production for longer you will not only damage the formation but also permanently damage the down hole assembly and equipment. And if the wellhead is on a pad you will damage other wells in the area.
> 
> To stop production for longer than a week or two with any hope of recovery at prior peak production rates in the future you need to pump mud to stabilize pressure in the formation and then plug and abandon.



Let us use some common sense here. A well has x amount of pressure. Where is you pressure build up coming from? If this was the case, we would be extracting every last drop of oil in a well. Pressure decreases overtime in a well. It doesn't increase unless there is a seismic activity or maybe there is some hidden pocket of gas/oil intrusion genius.

If your logic is true, we wouldn't need gas injection or water injection since pressure will always build up. A Christmas tree if properly designed to their rated pressure can last pretty long, that's how you decommission oil and gas field. You plug it. By your logic all the oil and gas fields plugs will just explode with their 'pressure build up'. Haahhahahahahahahaahah. From someone who doesn't know what sweet gas is, you are pretty funny.

Omg, I just found a genius here.

A properly cemented well will not collapse unless there is water intrusion or other operational fck ups. In Chinese, there is a saying, its better to teach idiots than half idiots.

Are you by any chance mistaking it for oil and gas blow outs? Lolololol lol.


----------



## dbc

Han Patriot said:


> Let us use some common sense here. A well has x amount of pressure. Where is you pressure build up coming from? If this was the case, we would be extracting every last drop of oil in a well. Pressure decreases overtime in a well. It doesn't increase unless there is a seismic activity or maybe there is some hidden pocket of gas/oil intrusion genius.
> 
> If your logic is true, we wouldn't need gas injection or water injection since pressure will always build up. A Christmas tree if properly designed to their rated pressure can last pretty long, that's how you decommission oil and gas field. You plug it. By your logic all the oil and gas fields plugs will just explode with their 'pressure build up'. Haahhahahahahahahaahah. From someone who doesn't know what sweet gas is, you are pretty funny.
> 
> Omg, I just found a genius here.
> 
> A properly cemented well will not collapse unless there is water intrusion or other operational fck ups. In Chinese, there is a saying, its better to teach idiots than half idiots.
> 
> Are you mistaking oil and gas blow out? Lolololol lol.



water is injected into declining wells to arrest declining output as the formation is depleted over many years of production. Injecting water increases pressure in the reservoir genius and you still can't simply shut off the value to stop production for extended duration. In fact water injection makes the corrosion problem from shut in worse.

did I say blowout silly man? I said damage.
During shut in fluids sit stagnant down hole causing corrosion from acid and bacteria build up. This damages downhole pumps, rods and tubing.

Now please stop quoting me, I have better things to do then feed your masochistic needs.


----------



## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> I meant to type fiend. Hahahha. So how is Germany faring now with 10% gas from Russia? How are the fish and chip shops doing in UK? What about the fertilizer prices? Russia unlike Europe produces real surplus resources. US has gas but consumes alot as well, so Russia is one of the few resource surplus nations on earth.
> 
> Look at what US is trying to do now, an Asian NATO. Japan and Korea are even lower than UK on the poodle scale, they are literally occupied. No Korean President has had the gall to ask Us troops to leave. They are there to 'protect' them. Lolololol. As if 30k soldiers are gonna make a difference. Look at Japan.... Rich but pathetic. Rich in what sense exactly, when the gas shuts, all the paper money on earth can't buy you heat. When the grain stops, you can't eat papers. People just don't undestand money is not wealth. Money is a means of exchange, you need to have something for it to exchange to have value. And if all teh resource and goods provider start to boycott dollars, its as good as toilet paper. The reason why people are using it is because of legacy issues. US still has some legacy technology and the institutions for trade. The dumbest thing to do is sanctioning Russia, it is actually creating an incentive for people to diversify into an alternative trading system. Russia has the energy and raw materials, China has the productive power. You see where I am going here. I would dare say China has the most complete range of technologies, not the most advanced but the most complete.


Yes 'mini Mr. Xi' you are the brains and everybody is wrong. You are incomprehensible. It makes no sense what you are saying. This is a forum where the idea is to exchange views. What makes you think by your childish logic you will change anybody's mind. I may set the record straight or state some facts, but the intent is not to have you change your mind.

You on the other hand thinks the person in a declining population whose every use of any tech (chips from Korean and Taiwanese companies, entertainment from elsewhere) thinks by screaming , shouting , screaming you will get your point across.


I think you have a bit of an inferiority complex that you compensate for by claiming you know everything (by doing a bit of google search) and then use some communist doctrine to project out. and in the process of the laughing stock. Outside of a few countries with some technical skills like Pakistan, your orbit is most countries in Africa and may be the islands in Pacific . You feel that you don't have a Korea, Japan, or a Finland in your orbit and now world has gifted you Russia. Even Vietnam is not under your umbrella. Russia is the best you can do so you have to vent on Korea/Japan/Australia as a result even though legally they are not part of NATO.

Russia is losing its smartest. They are not moving to China, they are moving to other countries. And I have news for you, the world's green energy transition has begun. So provided Sir Putin does not start a nuclear war, the best gift he gave to the planet was to accelerate the transition. Then which ever country you are in and the Russians can exchange all your resources among each other and pollute yourselves.



TNT said:


> Why are the westerners and their chamchas here constantly derailing the thread? Can u guys take ur dumb and useless arguments somewhere else a let this thread be about the war news and development. I have to go through tons of ur crap to find an update. @mods plz ban those who r not contributing with news and just here to cheerlead.


----------



## aviator_fan

TNT said:


> Why are the westerners and their chamchas here constantly derailing the thread? Can u guys take ur dumb and useless arguments somewhere else a let this thread be about the war news and development. I have to go through tons of ur crap to find an update. @mods plz ban those who r not contributing with news and just here to cheerlead.


For the same reason I have to scroll through forum postings on Bangladesh textiles when the name of this forum is Pakistan Defence. Thats because purpose of a forum is to exchange thoughts and ideas and opinions. For those that are chamchas on either side get a view of what the contrary view is. Something only a global forum like this can do since it is not possible to find people next door that will be supportive of the other side in the war.
If you are implying that this forum should be only pro-Russia, then why don't you consider joining the Russian military twitter handle. You will get exactly what you want to see there. Or start a thread on Ukraine that says 'Putin is great, nobody join with a different view on the war'. And suggest to western chamchas to start one 'Putin is bad, nobody join with a different view on the war'

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Han Patriot

dbc said:


> water is injected into declining wells to arrest declining output as the formation is depleted over many years of production. Injecting water increases pressure in the reservoir genius and you still can't simply shut off the value to stop production for extended duration. In fact water injection makes the corrosion problem from shut in worse.
> 
> did I say blowout silly man? I said damage.
> During shut in fluids sit stagnant down hole causing corrosion from acid and bacteria build up. This damages downhole pumps, rods and tubing.
> 
> Now please stop quoting me, I have better things to do then feed your masochistic needs.



Until now you don't know what is sweet gas, you don't know the difference between blowout preventer and Christmas tree and smarty pants can't even explain to me how pressure is built up in a producing well. Don't start talking to me about water injection, we normally mix it with chemical injection, it's to prevent biological infestation. You mean to tell me you don't know that? Hahahahaha.

And btw that's not just corrosion but fouling. Explain to me how does water corrode components that are design to MR175 sulphuric acid corrosion. Do you know what materials we are talking about? Fck, do you really copy paste from somewhere or you must be a trainee engineer or something. Water injection is using produced water nromally, how does putting in water from the same well you took out increase corrosion when there are chemical inhibitors . I feel like I am talking to a real case idiot here. If I know your name I will make sure my company don't employ you. Btw injection systems are not just used in 'depleted' fields, it's used on producing fields as well to maintain stable pressure. So called 'depleted' fields are normally still full of oil up to 70% left, what is depleted is pressure. When the cost of EOR is more than the oil recoverable, the field becomes depleted even when there is still oil. In the end the cost of pumping in pressure is not worth the oil they can recover,unless of course oil price increases.

Pressure build up happens during drilling, not from stably producing Wells you know the process right? . The pressure on that well is fixed, it doesn't increase suddenly unless there is an external stimuli. During drilling you are slowly building up the pressure as you go deeper, hence a sudden gush of high pressure gas pockets can cause a BLOW OUT. understand dumbfvk! So fckers telling me Russia needs to flare a LNG plant to prevent gas field blow out is really idiotic beyond imagination.


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> You accused me of believing in Russian propaganda, but have you ever thought that maybe you were fed half truths by the msm to justify the war! Come on both Russia and the West are guilty of bullshit propaganda. Remember the Ghost of Kiev? Lololol. The key is use some critical thinking to know the truth and truth is normally half way in between.
> 
> Let us dissect your argument, firstly do we know how long it has been flaming, what was being flamed? Was it offspec gas? FFS, we need specialised metering skids and gas spectrometers to know the quality of the gas and the amount of gas. But msm can just guesstimate by looking at the flame from space?
> 
> That's what I had been telling you, NOBODY SELLS LNG IN A PIPELINE BECAUSE ITS EXPENSIVE. You need to insulate the pipes and use very expensive alloy for the pipes. Therefore what has a LNG plant flaring got to do with pipeline supply to Germany?
> 
> For the nth fcking time, you just fcking close a few valves, you don't have to burn it if you don't want to sell it. Can you understand simple science? You are not selling tacos here. Tacos can go bad if you don't sell it. Gas doesn't go bad, you fcking close the valves and tahts it.


Natural gas is valuable. Every component of it is worth. I don’t need to push it thru spectrometer then flush it down the toilet. The Russians flare it because they are incompetent and ignorant. There is no other explanation. They can invade a country but can’t stop flaring gas, can’t stop this environment disaster? Rediculous.


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## khansaheeb

Ukrainian Assassin Who Bombed Russian Darya Dugina, Found STABBED TO DEATH


The female member of the Ukrainian National Guard, Natalya Vovka, who entered Russia on July 23 and moved into the same building as Darya Dugina,...




halturnerradioshow.com





World​Ukrainian Assassin Who Bombed Russian Darya Dugina, Found STABBED TO DEATH​WORLD NEWSDESK 28 AUGUST 2022 HITS: 20588










The female member of the Ukrainian National Guard, Natalya Vovka, who entered Russia on July 23 and moved into the same building as Darya Dugina, stalked Darya, and planted a bomb to murder Darya by blowing up the car she was driving, has been found stabbed to death in a hotel in Austria.
Natalya Vovka was reportedly found with seventeen (17) stab wounds, laying dead in a hotel room in Austria.
Dead men (or women) tell no tales.
Looks as though Ukraine is tying-up "loose ends" by assassinating the Assassin. Or perhaps Russia got even?


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## Viet

Ukraine hunting traitors

Olexij Kowaljow, an Ukraine politician who defected to Russia and worked with occupation army in southern Ukraine, is found shot dead in his house. He survived the first assassination attempt. Also, his girl friend was killed.







Gegen Olexij Kowaljow hatte die ukrainische Justiz wegen Hochverrat ermittelt.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Soldier35

Archival footage of the aviation of Ukraine. Before the encirclement, several Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopters managed to deliver ammunition and food to Azovstal in Mariupol. Some of the helicopters were later shot down.


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## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> Yes 'mini Mr. Xi' you are the brains and everybody is wrong. You are incomprehensible. It makes no sense what you are saying. This is a forum where the idea is to exchange views. What makes you think by your childish logic you will change anybody's mind. I may set the record straight or state some facts, but the intent is not to have you change your mind.
> 
> You on the other hand thinks the person in a declining population whose every use of any tech (chips from Korean and Taiwanese companies, entertainment from elsewhere) thinks by screaming , shouting , screaming you will get your point across.
> 
> 
> I think you have a bit of an inferiority complex that you compensate for by claiming you know everything (by doing a bit of google search) and then use some communist doctrine to project out. and in the process of the laughing stock. Outside of a few countries with some technical skills like Pakistan, your orbit is most countries in Africa and may be the islands in Pacific . You feel that you don't have a Korea, Japan, or a Finland in your orbit and now world has gifted you Russia. Even Vietnam is not under your umbrella. Russia is the best you can do so you have to vent on Korea/Japan/Australia as a result even though legally they are not part of NATO.
> 
> Russia is losing its smartest. They are not moving to China, they are moving to other countries. And I have news for you, the world's green energy transition has begun. So provided Sir Putin does not start a nuclear war, the best gift he gave to the planet was to accelerate the transition. Then which ever country you are in and the Russians can exchange all your resources among each other and pollute yourselves.


Chill down hero. I am just trying to educate idiots here, I am actually not screaming. Whether China is good or bad, that's another topic, the point here is Russia is not in such a bad shape like what the msm describe. I personally think. It's good for them, they will be finally free and independent. New industries will be created, new jobs etc. With Chinese technology and productive powers, we can make them powerful.

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## mulj

impressive fact that uaf finally started counter offensive in kherson region by overall constelation that should not happen. some serious ruptures in russian posture.


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Chill down hero. I am just trying to educate idiots here, I am actually not screaming. Whether China is good or bad, that's another topic, the point here is Russia is not in such a bad shape like what the msm describe. I personally think. It's good for them, they will be finally free and independent. New industries will be created, new jobs etc. With Chinese technology and productive powers, we can make them powerful.


You don’t educate anyone you are just an ignorant. No, Russia is a dead end. They will end up like Srilanka. They are not going great because they replace German cars by chinese cars. Don’t pretend you are innocent virgin. Chinese businesses will squeeze them to the last penny.


----------



## MyNameAintJeff

Viet said:


> Ukraine hunting traitors
> 
> Olexij Kowaljow, an Ukraine politician who defected to Russia and worked with occupation army in southern Ukraine, is found shot dead in his house. He survived the first assassination attempt. Also, his girl friend was killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gegen Olexij Kowaljow hatte die ukrainische Justiz wegen Hochverrat ermittelt.


They killed the girlfriend? Wow such beacons of Human rights and and democracy and kindness


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> You don’t educate anyone you are just an ignorant. No, Russia is a dead end. They will end up like Srilanka. They are not going great because they replace German cars by chinese cars. Don’t pretend you are innocent virgin. Chinese businesses will squeeze them to the last penny.


Ok let's make a bet here. I will bet Russia for the next 5 years will not collapse but will be roughly the same with slower growth. You are betting they will end up like Sri Lanka. Do you dare? 

Some hint to you, Russia produces the food and energy which Sri Lanka couldn't get and hence collapsed. You can't eat paper dollars mate. Lol


----------



## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> Chill down hero. I am just trying to educate idiots here, I am actually not screaming. Whether China is good or bad, that's another topic, the point here is Russia is not in such a bad shape like what the msm describe. I personally think. It's good for them, they will be finally free and independent. New industries will be created, new jobs etc. With Chinese technology and productive powers, we can make them powerful.


Like you did with north korea?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> Ukrainian Assassin Who Bombed Russian Darya Dugina, Found STABBED TO DEATH
> 
> 
> The female member of the Ukrainian National Guard, Natalya Vovka, who entered Russia on July 23 and moved into the same building as Darya Dugina,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> halturnerradioshow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World​Ukrainian Assassin Who Bombed Russian Darya Dugina, Found STABBED TO DEATH​WORLD NEWSDESK 28 AUGUST 2022 HITS: 20588
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The female member of the Ukrainian National Guard, Natalya Vovka, who entered Russia on July 23 and moved into the same building as Darya Dugina, stalked Darya, and planted a bomb to murder Darya by blowing up the car she was driving, has been found stabbed to death in a hotel in Austria.
> Natalya Vovka was reportedly found with seventeen (17) stab wounds, laying dead in a hotel room in Austria.
> Dead men (or women) tell no tales.
> Looks as though Ukraine is tying-up "loose ends" by assassinating the Assassin. Or perhaps Russia got even?



An eye for an eye. A tooth for a tooth. A person for a person. Even if Russians and Ukrainians have a 1:1 loss ratio, the last Ukrainian will die before the last Russian will die. Russia wins the war. Capito. Finito.

This is the first war in human history to the last man or woman. Who do you think will win? Russia with 150 million people? Or? Ukraine with 30 million people?


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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Ok let's make a bet here. I will bet Russia for the next 5 years will not collapse but will be roughly the same with slower growth. You are betting they will end up like Sri Lanka. Do you dare?
> 
> Some hint to you, Russia produces the food and energy which Sri Lanka couldn't get and hence collapsed. You can't eat paper dollars mate. Lol


You are too shallow. Yes Russia produces excess of foods but where coming the harvesting machines? Growing grains needs fertilizer, yes Russia has excess of gas as basis but where coming the fertilizer factories?
Russia planes can’t fly because lack of components why don’t they make themselves? What’s about ships? Can they sail to anywhere?
Yes Russia has huge amounts of resources to make computers, software, chips, why can’t they make it?
Russia is not USSR. The Soviet could make it.
Putin is just a man of the past.
He dreams of the return of USSR.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russia planes can’t fly because lack of components why don’t they make themselves? What’s about ships? Can they sail to anywhere?



A Viet who underestimates China. Typical.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564483445065121793


----------



## gambit

ZeGerman said:


> Like you did with north korea?


A powerful Russia is the last thing China want. Russia *WILL* be weakened at the end of this war, no matter how it will turn out. China will do nothing to help Russia regain what was lost.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

gambit said:


> A powerful Russia is the last thing China want. Russia *WILL* be weakened at the end of this war, no matter how it will turn out. China will do nothing to help Russia regain what was lost.



Good. Russia and Iran are Chinese vassals anyway. China don't want them too naughty. The weaker, the better.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564514174109114373


----------



## TNT

aviator_fan said:


> For the same reason I have to scroll through forum postings on Bangladesh textiles when the name of this forum is Pakistan Defence. Thats because purpose of a forum is to exchange thoughts and ideas and opinions. For those that are chamchas on either side get a view of what the contrary view is. Something only a global forum like this can do since it is not possible to find people next door that will be supportive of the other side in the war.
> If you are implying that this forum should be only pro-Russia, then why don't you consider joining the Russian military twitter handle. You will get exactly what you want to see there. Or start a thread on Ukraine that says 'Putin is great, nobody join with a different view on the war'. And suggest to western chamchas to start one 'Putin is bad, nobody join with a different view on the war'



I think u have a serious comprehension problem. There is a difference between sharing news (of both sides) and engaging in stupid useless discussion about gas flaring that goes on for pages. If u r in to crap, i suggest u switch to reddit, this thread is for sharing news and updates from both sides and not for dumb arguments. This thread been blocked in the past due to these morons. I call out western chamchas because there is a certain group here who r active 24/7 as if they get paid by the hour and never see them sharing any authentic news, updates or situation on the ground, just stupid trolling.


----------



## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> Like you did with north korea?


Yup, they have the nuke. Lol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564528255117426693

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564530461745074178


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> You are too shallow. Yes Russia produces excess of foods but where coming the harvesting machines? Growing grains needs fertilizer, yes Russia has excess of gas as basis but where coming the fertilizer factories?
> Russia planes can’t fly because lack of components why don’t they make themselves? What’s about ships? Can they sail to anywhere?
> Yes Russia has huge amounts of resources to make computers, software, chips, why can’t they make it?
> Russia is not USSR. The Soviet could make it.
> Putin is just a man of the past.
> He dreams of the return of USSR.


Harvesting machines? Seriously that's what you are thinking? Where do you the majority of the things are made in nowadays? It starts with a C. We make all the components that Russia needs except the most advanced chips, most applications don't require the most advanced chips. And for gods sake 7nm is not enough, its not kirk Russia will die without Apple. Use Xiaomi or Huawei. Use Chinese cars and tractors and computers powered by our own chips. They are alrwdy using it mate. I told you US and the West only hold onto.l legacy tech and institutions, once China reaches parity, its game over. Why do you think US had been going full. Throttle on. CHINA FOR THE past 5 years? We are the only one blocking their way to total dominance.

The evil empire is US... Wake up you lil cheer leaders. You need a thug to fight another thug. You need China. Btw Russia actually exports fertilizer and is a surplus country. The food prices increased because Russian and Belarusian fertilizer were banned.


----------



## ZeGerman

gambit said:


> A powerful Russia is the last thing China want. Russia *WILL* be weakened at the end of this war, no matter how it will turn out. China will do nothing to help Russia regain what was lost.


This. A north korea like, nuclear armed buffer where civilians starve and the gas flows cheap is perfect for China.

Finally they can make the “soviet big brother” into their poodle.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> This. A north korea like, nuclear armed buffer where civilians starve and the gas flows cheap is perfect for China.
> 
> Finally they can make the “soviet big brother” into their poodle.



Socialism is the future. Embrace it or be left out. Your choice.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564491928435056642


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564532126535540738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564534363777277952


----------



## Primus

Has any footage arrived from Kherson wrt the Ukrainian counter attack?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Primus said:


> Has any footage arrived from Kherson wrt the Ukrainian counter attack?



It was crushed pretty badly last I heard. Hundreds dead. Also lost 2 Su-25 out of about 10 they had. That's what happens when you try marching 50 km in No Man's Land.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Harvesting machines? Seriously that's what you are thinking? Where do you the majority of the things are made in nowadays? It starts with a C. We make all the components that Russia needs except the most advanced chips, most applications don't require the most advanced chips. And for gods sake 7nm is not enough, its not kirk Russia will die without Apple. Use Xiaomi or Huawei. Use Chinese cars and tractors and computers powered by our own chips. They are alrwdy using it mate. I told you US and the West only hold onto.l legacy tech and institutions, once China reaches parity, its game over. Why do you think US had been going full. Throttle on. CHINA FOR THE past 5 years? We are the only one blocking their way to total dominance.
> 
> The evil empire is US... Wake up you lil cheer leaders. You need a thug to fight another thug. You need China. Btw Russia actually exports fertilizer and is a surplus country. The food prices increased because Russian and Belarusian fertilizer were banned.


Making Russia to a communist bro is the way to go? 
You seriously think Russians becoming consumer slaves to chinese products is better than consumer slaves of western products?
Yes Russia exports fertilizer however they rely on western tech imports.
It’s like Russia gas exports, without tech from the west like Siemens gas compressors they cannot even export a gallon of gas.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Yes Russia exports fertilizer however they rely on western imports.



False.


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## Vergennes

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It was crushed pretty badly last I heard. Hundreds dead. Also lost 2 Su-25 out of about 10 they had. That's what happens when you try marching 50 km in No Man's Land.



According to the Russians of course who claimed in the process to have killed 40000 Ukrainian soldiers,destroyed 1500 tanks,downed 100 aircrafts and destroyed 120 himars launchers.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> According to the Russians of course who claimed in the process to have killed 40000 Ukrainian soldiers,destroyed 1500 tanks,downed 100 aircrafts and destroyed 120 himars launchers.



Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564543848646311936

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564543848646311936



Destroying their own cities. Is this all Ukrainians can do? How about try to take the fight to Russia? How about try take a Russian village? Oh right. They are just a bunch of cowards.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564508359621050370


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564508359621050370



No chance to take back Kherson. That river is only a few hundred meters wide.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It was crushed pretty badly last I heard. Hundreds dead. Also lost 2 Su-25 out of about 10 they had. That's what happens when you try marching 50 km in No Man's Land.


Let me fix that for you.

Only some footage of ukraine artillery strikes.
Russia only showing baseless talk of destroying hundreds. 



It seems ukraine is intensifying their strikes. If this is a precursor to an actual offensive or a feint i dont know. Lets see how it evolves the coming days.


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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564537281364606982
Ukraine MIGs firing HARMs.


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## Vergennes

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> No chance to take back Kherson. That river is only a few hundred meters wide.



I believe Kherson push is a faint with the main push coming from Zaporizhzhia.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Let me fix that for you.
> 
> Only some footage of ukraine artillery strikes.
> Russia only showing baseless talk of destroying hundreds.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems ukraine is intensifying their strikes. If this is a precursor to an actual offensive or a feint i dont know. Lets see how it evolves the coming days.



Whatever Ukrainians had were mostly blown up in depots in Nikolaiv. Every offensive they do they'll lose more and more of whatever they can scrap together. It's a losing formula. Especially when you are out numbered 1 to 4.



Vergennes said:


> I believe Kherson push is a faint with the main push coming from Zaporizhzhia.



Oh god that's an even worse strategy. Sun Tzu must be rolling in his grave.



HorusRa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564537281364606982
> Ukraine MIGs firing HARMs.



Too few too make a difference. They'll need 100 fighter jets.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564550721650958336

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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564494132910899200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564494134630547458

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564505548221038594

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564494132910899200
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564494134630547458



Russian claims are as worth as toilet paper. As I said once if you claim to deliver F35s to Ukraine without actually delivering them Russians would come with claims such as "45 F35s were downed the last hour".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564561058534244352

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

Real comedy

Russian tourists to Kasachstan complaining why they are harassed just because their car has Z Stickers.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Russian claims are as worth as toilet paper. As I said once if you claim to deliver F35s to Ukraine without actually delivering them Russians would come with claims such as "45 F35s were downed the last hour".
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564561058534244352





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564518515746512896

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> No chance to take back Kherson. That river is only a few hundred meters wide.


Why not? Cherson is on the right bank of dnieper river. The russians are cut off supplies by Ukraine artillery strikes in the past weeks. They are encircled, hungry and desperate. It’s better for them to surrender. The russian reenforcement troops on the left bank of the river can come to help if they swim across. Ukraine line of offensive is 150km wide with three thrusts, with Cherson as main line of attack.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564577730833879041

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Why not? Cherson is on the right bank of dnieper river. The russians are cut off supplies by Ukraine artillery strikes in the past weeks. They are encircled, hungry and desperate. It’s better for them to surrender. The russian reenforcement troops on the left bank of the river can come to help if they swim across. Ukraine line of offensive is 150km wide with three thrusts, with Cherson as main line of attack.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564585520361005057


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564581669335699457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564577530174136321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564583960264458241


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564306044704227328


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564585520361005057




They're getting taken out no matter how they try to camouflage their movements and equipment. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564333690976702466


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564508359621050370




You just took pictures of empty land and declared them to be Russians being hit. I see no Russian equipment or facility being hit in that photo.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564577730833879041




I see no atgm missile or gunner in that video. It seems western propagandists are grasping at straws. All I saw was a tank that was moving and Ukrainian troops in the trenches. As usual, the Western propaganda is all about telling a lie.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564532466672488448


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564306044704227328
> 
> 
> 
> They're getting taken out no matter how they try to camouflage their movements and equipment. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564333690976702466




That’s 10 of 136. At this rate, Russia may get them all in 4-5 years.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564494132910899200
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564494134630547458




It seems the Western propagandists are trying to refute Russia's battle success claims, and they came up this fancy idea that Russians are hitting decoys and not the real HIMARS. How desperate one has to be to make those childish claims. To hit the actual HIMARS, Russian military would rely on human, satelite, and sigint intelligence. Gee, reason escapes the empire's propagandists that they showed a vehicle in a forest and declare it to be a decoy.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You just took pictures of empty land and declared them to be Russians being hit. I see no Russian equipment or facility being hit in that photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see no atgm missile or gunner in that video. It seems western propagandists are grasping at straws. All I saw was a tank that was moving and Ukrainian troops in the trenches. As usual, the Western propaganda is all about telling a lie.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564532466672488448



You can clearly see and hear the missile, especially when the video slows down at the end.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> You can clearly see and hear the missile, especially when the video slows down at the end.



Prove it and show it instead of running with mere claims that are not provable.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564597106161205249


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Prove it and show it instead of running with mere claims that are not provable.



Upon first watch I could hear it but not see it. Then when the video slows down, you can clearly see it. 

Stop lying to yourself


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564543848646311936





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564580371492110339


F-22Raptor said:


> Upon first watch I could hear it but not see it. Then when the video slows down, you can clearly see it.
> 
> Stop lying to yourself



Seriously, there was no ATGM missile in that video. If it misses it, where did it hit? Come on, you can't just make shit up, claim something that can you can't prove, and then put up a brave face when you get caught and still insist on it. Show the video that shows the Russian atgm missed its target. Otherwise, admit it this claim of yours is just a pure hogwash.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564580371492110339
> 
> 
> Seriously, there was no ATGM missile in that video. If it misses it, where did it hit? Come on, you can't just make shit up, claim something that can you can't prove, and then put up a brave face when you get caught and still insist on it. Show the video that shows the Russian atgm missed its target. Otherwise, admit it this claim of yours is just a pure hogwash.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564576677648388099
2 seconds in, you can clearly see and hear it. You must be deaf and blind

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Making Russia to a communist bro is the way to go?
> You seriously think Russians becoming consumer slaves to chinese products is better than consumer slaves of western products?
> Yes Russia exports fertilizer however they rely on western tech imports.
> It’s like Russia gas exports, without tech from the west like Siemens gas compressors they cannot even export a gallon of gas.


Aihhhh how naive can you get. Do you understand Communism is an economic concept not political. Do you see stock markets and billionaires in Communist countries? You must think NK is democratic since they are officially known as DPRK. 
China is an authoratarian country practising state capitalism, promoting nationalism. Essentially we are no different from Nazis.

Well Russians are not our slave and guess what we don't force them to buy our goods. But do we sanction them? Or force Ukraine to join an alliance to counter them? Essentially its good to have a relationship as near equals, I don't even think we are gonna treat Russia like how US treats Japan. We need Russia as much as they need us.

My friend, again I work in the oil and gas business and trust me fertilizer tech is a decades old technology. China produces the same compressors needed, might not be as reliable but its improving. There are hundreds of Chinese plants using our own compressors. It's not really rocket science.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564597106161205249


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564596257347215360


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564614922520199171

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564618146350342151


Han Patriot said:


> We need Russia as much as they need us.



At the end of the day, Russia needs China for supply of consumer electronics and China needs Russia as a buffer against Anglo threat.


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems the Western propagandists are trying to refute Russia's battle success claims, and they came up this fancy idea that Russians are hitting decoys and not the real HIMARS. How desperate one has to be to make those childish claims. To hit the actual HIMARS, Russian military would rely on human, satelite, and sigint intelligence. Gee, reason escapes the empire's propagandists that they showed a vehicle in a forest and declare it to be a decoy.



We hardly need to refute the claim cause the russians have zero to show for it. No after picture/video. No missile/drone cam. 

In the meantime daily Himar strike videos keep coming in…..so what is your bs story now???

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564628306661605377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564535324084142080
lmao

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564626306309971969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564626146028822533

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564626853306007563


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564623858841313281


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564644265275408386


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564647520147488775

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564646789365596163

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564635988986560513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564624266527756294


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564638886428540929


----------



## 1ndy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564655387655151623
Thank you #Pakistan

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

1ndy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564655387655151623
> Thank you #Pakistan



Meh. 122 mm is not efficient. Range is too short. Fire power too low. Russians don't even use 122 mm anymore.

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## 1ndy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Meh. 122 mm is not efficient. Range is too short. Fire power too low. Russians don't even use 122 mm anymore.


who cares what Russia use? these are for Ukraine.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

1ndy said:


> who cares what Russia use? these are for Ukraine.



True. This is the first war in human history to the last man or woman. It is essentially genocide.


----------



## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564655387655151623This RAF C-17 already on its 2nd trip to Pakistan. 8th trip in a week. 18 August

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## 1ndy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> True. This is the first war in human history to the last man or woman. It is essentially genocide.


yes! to the last Russian...


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

1ndy said:


> yes! to the last Russian...



Yup. This time Yanks are dead set on genocide. No prisoner. Kill every single one of the 150 million Russians. Biggest genocide in human history.



monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564655387655151623This RAF C-17 already on its 2nd trip to Pakistan. 8th trip in a week. 18 August
> View attachment 874984
> 
> 
> View attachment 874985



I guess this means no more JF-17 for Pakistan. Russia refuse to supply engine after Pakistan deliver weapons to Ukraine. China has deal with Russia. No Chinese engine in any export JF-17.

However, in this case Pakistan does have a contingency plan with J-10C to fall back on.


----------



## Vergennes

Kherson getting pounded hard tonight


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564661638510379008
what air defense doin?


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Aihhhh how naive can you get. Do you understand Communism is an economic concept not political. Do you see stock markets and billionaires in Communist countries? You must think NK is democratic since they are officially known as DPRK.
> China is an authoratarian country practising state capitalism, promoting nationalism. Essentially we are no different from Nazis.
> 
> Well Russians are not our slave and guess what we don't force them to buy our goods. But do we sanction them? Or force Ukraine to join an alliance to counter them? Essentially its good to have a relationship as near equals, I don't even think we are gonna treat Russia like how US treats Japan. We need Russia as much as they need us.
> 
> My friend, again I work in the oil and gas business and trust me fertilizer tech is a decades old technology. China produces the same compressors needed, might not be as reliable but its improving. There are hundreds of Chinese plants using our own compressors. It's not really rocket science.


Communism an economical concept? Seriously? So how came to Sino Soviet breakdown? Mao wanted to prove he was more communist than Chrusov?


----------



## Primus

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Yup. This time Yanks are dead set on genocide. No prisoner. Kill every single one of the 150 million Russians. Biggest genocide in human history.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this means no more JF-17 for Pakistan. Russia refuse to supply engine after Pakistan deliver weapons to Ukraine. China has deal with Russia. No Chinese engine in any export JF-17.
> 
> However, in this case Pakistan does have a contingency plan with J-10C to fall back on.


Ws13 engine? Jf17 has been tested with it, and has shown to output more power and give a higher t/w ratio compared to Rd93.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564684341376057345


----------



## The SC




----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564681902660980736
Those cigar-smoking ruZZies are out of control


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564532980747468801
Russia doing Russia things


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

1ndy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564655387655151623
> Thank you #Pakistan


So that's what the RAF transport was carrying from Nur Khan to Romania...



monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564655387655151623This RAF C-17 already on its 2nd trip to Pakistan. 8th trip in a week. 18 August
> View attachment 874984
> 
> 
> View attachment 874985


Some one who travels daily near to Nur Khan said there was a lot of activity.


----------



## Ali_Baba

1ndy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564655387655151623
> Thank you #Pakistan


Turkey is selling to Ukraine and Russians are still supplying S400s to Turkey. Russia sells to India to occupy Kashmir - i reckon this is fair game to supply to Ukraine from Pakistan ..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564674146570731522

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564666710757605378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564666710757605378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564558485592891392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564560262522408961


----------



## Viet

Putin denazification campaign runs amok.
According to Ukraine military Intel, Putin hidden general mobilization has failed. Now in addition to strengthening neonazi group “Wagner” Putin sends far right “Russia imperial group” to the front. A racist para military movement.


----------



## The SC

The New York Times: The Pentagon rules out the possibility of success for the Ukrainian army
@soldier2017kg

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564713171482550273

HIMARS are obliterating Russian forces

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564709759961513984
The situation of the Ukrainians is complicated.. Their attack on Kherson was easily thwarted.. They have to increase the number of fighters to 60 or 70 thousand.. Concentrating the work of the cannons on the front, but all this means sacrificing Donetsk forever in exchange for a small possibility of liberating Kherson..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564718351146000384


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564713003148525568

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Today, a bombing of the *Zaporizka NPP *plant again - striking between the second and third reactors..

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564691270530125824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564708662320500741


----------



## Primus

The SC said:


> Today, a bombing of the *Zaporizka NPP *plant again - striking between the second and third reactors..
> 
> View attachment 875011
> 
> 
> View attachment 875012


You know, since a long term ceasefire to stop this war is unlikely any time soon, the world should come together to put some short term ceasefire into affect so they can get a dialogue going between both countries to keep the fighting away from Nuclear power plants. I don't think I will like to see my skin ionise as soon as I go outside.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564644265275408386




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564518939723370496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564713939820285952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564684721132638209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564676935535443974

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564709759961513984
> The situation of the Ukrainians is complicated.. Their attack on Kherson was easily thwarted.. They have to increase the number of fighters to 60 or 70 thousand.. Concentrating the work of the cannons on the front, but all this means sacrificing Donetsk forever in exchange for a small possibility of liberating Kherson..


This guy is usually well informed: War in Ukraine

Kherson: The ukrainians broke through at the center west of the small brigdehead they have across the Inhulets River. An attempt of crossing the river further east succeded but the attack was repelled.
Small succes in the northern part aswell. Southern attack was repelled.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564608273415901197

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Primus said:


> You know, since a long term ceasefire to stop this war is unlikely any time soon, the world should come together to put some short term ceasefire into affect so they can get a dialogue going between both countries to keep the fighting away from Nuclear power plants. I don't think I will like to see my skin ionise as soon as I go outside.



Yanks will never allow Zelensky to negotiate. This is the first war in human history to the last man or woman on either side for the war to end.


----------



## The SC

Kherson Counter Offensive Quickly failing.​


----------



## 925boy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Meh. 122 mm is not efficient. Range is too short. Fire power too low. Russians don't even use 122 mm anymore.


Cuz NATo has no more money for better....right before Ukraine collapses.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564703136576569347


----------



## F-22Raptor

The Defense Department has begun planning for long-term military assistance to Ukraine, setting the stage for Congress to appropriate more funding for what Pentagon officials say will be a multiyear commitment. Last week, DOD unveiled its biggest tranche of security assistance to Ukraine to date, announcing intentions to put $3 billion under contract to deliver surface-to-air missiles, long-range artillery, laser-guided rockets and various drones to help stave off the ongoing Russian military invasion. The contracts will be funded under the...






DOD, Congress laying groundwork to move more money toward Ukraine | InsideDefense.com


The Defense Department has begun planning for long-term military assistance to Ukraine, setting the stage for Congress to appropriate more funding for what Pentagon officials say will be a multiyear commitment.




insidedefense.com





The US is now preparing for multi year long term military assistance to Ukraine.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564695581062320128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564715537892052994


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Communism an economical concept? Seriously? So how came to Sino Soviet breakdown? Mao wanted to prove he was more communist than Chrusov?


Yes it is. You can de democratic and communist or authoratarian and communist or dictatorial and communist. Mao can prove whatever he wants but the fact remains, China is not communist today. Russia is not communist today, Russia has election even if you claim it was rigged. US has no qualms working with Communist China, what they are against is a near peer competitor, and guess who is a near peer? Their aim had always been about maintaining American hegemony so that the world can subsidized their lifestyle.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564731444878098437

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564730282229612544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564729688194531329

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564673626263224322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564678680202321920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564670431424135174

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564726028815286274

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564710848026886147

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564680589055492096


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564518515746512896



Nonsense


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564574577556160514


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564292921590939648

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564708477217521665


----------



## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> This guy is usually well informed: War in Ukraine
> 
> Kherson: The ukrainians broke through at the center west of the small brigdehead they have across the Inhulets River. An attempt of crossing the river further east succeded but the attack was repelled.
> Small succes in the northern part aswell. Southern attack was repelled.
> View attachment 875017
> View attachment 875018


My source said there are 3 axises of advance. 

South from Mykolaiv thru T1501 Highway. That advance is stalled at the moment (This is most likely a feign tho).

Southeast from Mykolaiv thru M14, that broke thru several roadblock and now at the outer limit of Kherson

Eastward thru Inhulets thru E-58, this is to link up with the arrack thru M14, this has the greatest success, they have crossed to the other side of Inhulets and now have a bridgehead on the western bank. If they can link up with the M14 force, this will basically isolate Russia from further reinforcement because E-58 is the only inland road to supply Kherson. 

Another thing to note is the attack toward Nova Karkova (The dam) from Davydiv Brid this is probably most overlooked, but the Ukraine are making significant progress toward Nova Karkova

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564700593138065421


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Meh. 122 mm is not efficient. Range is too short. Fire power too low. Russians don't even use 122 mm anymore.


Dude give it up, you sound like a complete moron



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> True. This is the first war in human history to the last man or woman. It is essentially genocide.


Stop with your first forever war, your crap is old

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> My source said there are 3 axises of advance.
> 
> South from Mykolaiv thru T1501 Highway. That advance is stalled at the moment (This is most likely a feign tho).
> 
> Southeast from Mykolaiv thru M14, that broke thru several roadblock and now at the outer limit of Kherson
> 
> Eastward thru Inhulets thru E-58, this is to link up with the arrack thru M14, this has the greatest success, they have crossed to the other side of Inhulets and now have a bridgehead on the western bank. If they can link up with the M14 force, this will basically isolate Russia from further reinforcement because E-58 is the only inland road to supply Kherson.
> 
> Another thing to note is the attack toward Nova Karkova (The dam) from Davydiv Brid this is probably most overlooked, but the Ukraine are making significant progress toward Nova Karkova



It is suicidal. It is Ardennes offensive 2.0


----------



## dbc

Viet said:


> Yes Germany consumes 90 bcm gas per year with 40 pct coming from Russia. billion of billion euros go to Moscow. They burn the gas off or in simple words flush it down the toilet in my opinion because
> - incompetence
> - lack of infrastructure
> - western sanction
> - stupidity
> - deliberate act
> In this case most likely the deliberate act to create a shortage on the gas market with the aim to pushing higher gas prices.



Its been confirmed by VIIRS and Sentinel satellites images analyzed by Kayrros, the Russians have been flaring lots of gas since June. So much for Mr. Han's idiotic musings. @jhungary 


*Since June, satellite data from VIIRS and Sentinel-2 processed by Kayrros has shown “abnormally high” flaring from the Portovaya compressor station on the Russian-Finnish border, the entry point for Gazprom’s Nord Stream gas pipeline* to Germany, Kayrros outlined. S-2 images suggest flaring likely began when Russia started rationing gas exports in June, “ostensibly for maintenance reasons”, Kayrros noted.

“Many see the move as a power play to ratchet up political pressure on European supporters of Ukraine that depend on Russian gas for their winter needs,” Kayrros said in the note.

“High flaring also suggests Gazprom might prefer to burn gas than to shut-in production, perhaps in the hope that the export cuts will remain temporary,” 
Kayrros added









Russia Gives Power Burn a Whole New Meaning


'Many see the move as a power play to ratchet up political pressure on European supporters of Ukraine'.



www.rigzone.com

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## jhungary

dbc said:


> Its been confirmed by VIIRS and Sentinel satellites images analyzed by Kayrros, the Russians have been flaring lots of gas since June. So much for Mr. Han's idiotic musings. @jhungary
> 
> 
> *Since June, satellite data from VIIRS and Sentinel-2 processed by Kayrros has shown “abnormally high” flaring from the Portovaya compressor station on the Russian-Finnish border, the entry point for Gazprom’s Nord Stream gas pipeline* to Germany, Kayrros outlined. S-2 images suggest flaring likely began when Russia started rationing gas exports in June, “ostensibly for maintenance reasons”, Kayrros noted.
> 
> “Many see the move as a power play to ratchet up political pressure on European supporters of Ukraine that depend on Russian gas for their winter needs,” Kayrros said in the note.
> 
> “High flaring also suggests Gazprom might prefer to burn gas than to shut-in production, perhaps in the hope that the export cuts will remain temporary,”
> Kayrros added
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Gives Power Burn a Whole New Meaning
> 
> 
> 'Many see the move as a power play to ratchet up political pressure on European supporters of Ukraine'.
> 
> 
> 
> www.rigzone.com


I am NOT an oil and gas guy and even I know Russia is extracting more than they can sell and that's why they have to flare the well. It's just basic Economic principal. EU brought around 150 billions of Oil and Gas product from Russia annually, they stopped buying and only brought around 40 billion to date, you can't stop production on a whimp, which mean all that oil and gas need to go somewhere, China and India combine didn't even get over 60 billion mark. So where are the rest of the production goes?

Only stupid people would try to hide that fact even outsider like me realise. And that dude claim he is working on Oil and Gas industry...........LOL.....

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## dbc

jhungary said:


> I am NOT an oil and gas guy and even I know Russia is extracting more than they can sell and that's why they have to flare the well. It's just basic Economic principal. EU brought around 150 billions of Oil and Gas product from Russia annually, they stopped buying and only brought around 40 billion to date, you can't stop production on a whimp, which mean all that oil and gas need to go somewhere, China and India combine didn't even get over 60 billion mark. So where are the rest of the production goes?
> 
> Only stupid people would try to hide that fact even outsider like me realise. And that dude claim he is working on Oil and Gas industry...........LOL.....



...and the dead give away is that they're flaring at the Nord Stream compressor station at Portovaya.


Compressor stations are an integral part of the natural gas pipeline network that moves natural gas from individual producing well sites to end users. As natural gas moves through a pipeline, distance, friction, and elevation differences slow the movement of the gas, and reduce pressure. *Compressor stations are placed strategically within the gathering and transportation pipeline network to help maintain the pressure and flow of gas to market.*









Understanding Natural Gas Compressor Stations


Compressor stations are an integral part of the natural gas pipeline network that moves natural gas from individual producing well sites to end users.




extension.psu.edu

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Chill down hero. I am just trying to educate idiots here, I am actually not screaming. Whether China is good or bad, that's another topic, the point here is Russia is not in such a bad shape like what the msm describe. I personally think. It's good for them, they will be finally free and independent. New industries will be created, new jobs etc. With Chinese technology and productive powers, we can make them powerful.


This is probably single sanest post you have made. Look your job is not to educate anybody. This is not an indoctrination site where one side is convincing the other that they have to see things one way and thats it. Its a forum. To that end, its useful to get counter side of the argument from people that have perspectives that are informed even though they are opposite. Nobody comes here to prevail or have any chance of prevailing and changing the view point. All that said , getting the opposite view point helps to stay informed so we are not dumb drones listening to what press feeds us.

That said, I don't think anybody cares for a single mono-power world. There is no morale high ground in this world. When you want to be a world power, you check your morality in the door and the world power shapes it narrative in the way it wants to. US cares a lot about what happens in China but cares zero the oppression that takes place in other parts of world in its own allies. Or Russia uses the word Nazi when the PM is Jewish and all the male population of Ukraine decided to fight.

So share your perspective and took away from your credibility by childish abuses, or 'hahahas' or other things that distract from the knowledge you have.


----------



## K_Bin_W

What... Still no F35s and Abrams and other goodies.. OK I will check back after couple hundred posts.


----------



## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Harvesting machines? Seriously that's what you are thinking? Where do you the majority of the things are made in nowadays? It starts with a C. We make all the components that Russia needs except the most advanced chips, most applications don't require the most advanced chips. And for gods sake 7nm is not enough, its not kirk Russia will die without Apple. Use Xiaomi or Huawei. Use Chinese cars and tractors and computers powered by our own chips. They are alrwdy using it mate. I told you US and the West only hold onto.l legacy tech and institutions, once China reaches parity, its game over. Why do you think US had been going full. Throttle on. CHINA FOR THE past 5 years? We are the only one blocking their way to total dominance.
> 
> The evil empire is US... Wake up you lil cheer leaders. You need a thug to fight another thug. You need China. Btw Russia actually exports fertilizer and is a surplus country. The food prices increased because Russian and Belarusian fertilizer were banned.


Its called comparative advantage: countries produce what they have an advantage in. Sure they produced fertilizer. But so what. Here are all the things Russia can't do. Much like all the countries that import fertilzer can't produce it economically. Thats how global trade works. It will take 1-2 years and the world will adjust to producing fertilizers. 

1. Russia couldn't even repair their Nord Stream 1 turbine without sending it to Canada. 
2. The famed Sukhoi100 jet uses Goodrich wheels, Honeywell Avionics, and engines built with SNEMCA in a JV
3. In 2021, computers represented 18% of all its imports. Steel, pharma, industrial machinery are the other big ones.


----------



## Viet

“Ukraine can and will win this war!”

- Boris Johnson -


----------



## Viet

K_Bin_W said:


> What... Still no F35s and Abrams and other goodies.. OK I will check back after couple hundred posts.


There is an informal agreement within the Nato: no western tanks, no western fighter jets to Ukraine. There is a risk of direct escalation the Nato wants to avoid.
The question is how long can the Nato keep that agreement considering Russia pursues an aggressive foreign policy.
Germany is considering light tanks delivery to Ukraine.
Should Ukraine get western tanks and jets the war would be over in months.


----------



## jhungary

dbc said:


> ...and the dead give away is that they're flaring at the Nord Stream compressor station at Portovaya.
> 
> 
> Compressor stations are an integral part of the natural gas pipeline network that moves natural gas from individual producing well sites to end users. As natural gas moves through a pipeline, distance, friction, and elevation differences slow the movement of the gas, and reduce pressure. *Compressor stations are placed strategically within the gathering and transportation pipeline network to help maintain the pressure and flow of gas to market.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Understanding Natural Gas Compressor Stations
> 
> 
> Compressor stations are an integral part of the natural gas pipeline network that moves natural gas from individual producing well sites to end users.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> extension.psu.edu


sure, and I believe in coincident......

I was being sarcastic in case you didn't pick up



K_Bin_W said:


> What... Still no F35s and Abrams and other goodies.. OK I will check back after couple hundred posts.


It takes a US pilot from 8 months to 1 year in order for USAF Pilot to fly F-35 from F-16. This war is just 6 months old.

Also, why would US supplies that advance goodies to Ukraine when most of US NATO allies does not have them?


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> I am NOT an oil and gas guy and even I know Russia is extracting more than they can sell and that's why they have to flare the well. It's just basic Economic principal. EU brought around 150 billions of Oil and Gas product from Russia annually, they stopped buying and only brought around 40 billion to date, you can't stop production on a whimp, which mean all that oil and gas need to go somewhere, China and India combine didn't even get over 60 billion mark. So where are the rest of the production goes?
> 
> Only stupid people would try to hide that fact even outsider like me realise. And that dude claim he is working on Oil and Gas industry...........LOL.....


there can be another reason , i wonder of any gas refinery or sulphor extraction facility in one refinery get damaged recently ? that also can explain the flaring along side the surplus theory


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> there can be another reason , i wonder of any gas refinery or sulphor extraction facility in one refinery get damaged recently ? that also can explain the flaring along side the surplus theory


That's possible but a stretch. 

The reason why you can't shut off the well immediately is because of the pressure and if you just do it, the backpressure is going to damage the well. If a damage ALREADY occurred, would it be wise just to shut off the well immediately, so they won't damage the well further?

But again, I am not oil and gas people, I crunch numbers and data, ask @dbc, he obviously knows this.


----------



## Viet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564563649880014848
Ukraine shows off Vietnam War-era armored vehicles during counteroffensive in the south.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564946136481370114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564926579322626048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564920947496321027

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564906765354934272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564906368078864384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564873930971774978

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> sure, and I believe in coincident......
> 
> I was being sarcastic in case you didn't pick up
> 
> 
> It takes a US pilot from 8 months to 1 year in order for USAF Pilot to fly F-35 from F-16. This war is just 6 months old.
> 
> Also, why would US supplies that advance goodies to Ukraine when most of US NATO allies does not have them?



US does not need to supply anything just go in and librate UKr just like Kuwait.... I will sit back and watch... Ah! it will be popcorn time. 

Will check back for F35s and Abrams after few more pages. LMAO...


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564951533359431682

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564913967155265542

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564872774170148865


----------



## dbc

jhungary said:


> That's possible but a stretch.
> 
> The reason why you can't shut off the well immediately is because of the pressure and if you just do it, the backpressure is going to damage the well. If a damage ALREADY occurred, would it be wise just to shut off the well immediately, so they won't damage the well further?
> 
> But again, I am not oil and gas people, I crunch numbers and data, ask @dbc, he obviously knows this.



If the Russians burn that much H2S we would all drown in acid rain. Besides processed natural gas is transported to the compressor station all contaminants such as H2S is already removed. No one is going to pump H2S over thousands of miles of gas pipeline. Any leak would be catastrophic and installing thousands of miles of H2S corrosion resistant pipeline is unaffordable.


----------



## NotSure

How is the mighty offensive going?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564672617902231555


----------



## SalarHaqq

NotSure said:


> How is the mighty offensive going?



Kherson is being "liberated soon" for the approximately 536th time. Just watch.

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## HorusRa

NotSure said:


> How is the mighty offensive going?



How is the 3-day "special military operation" going? lmao

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564989822086909954




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564993983884959749

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564899294439686144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564933232705126403

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564987850961059842


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> US does not need to supply anything just go in and librate UKr just like Kuwait.... I will sit back and watch... Ah! it will be popcorn time.
> 
> Will check back for F35s and Abrams after few more pages. LMAO...


Why would US send troop? It's Europe problem, and there is nothing in Ukraine........

And I would not "sit back and enjoy the pop corn" if I were you, seeing Ukraine themselves manage to fight the Russian to a draw, if US get involved, it will either be a complete Russian Collapse, or a World engage in Thermonuclear war. Either way, this is not some popcorn moment

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564994437389996032


jhungary said:


> Why would US send troop? It's Europe problem, and there is nothing in Ukraine........
> 
> And I would not "sit back and enjoy the pop corn" if I were you, seeing Ukraine themselves manage to fight the Russian to a draw, if US get involved, it will either be a complete Russian Collapse, or a World engage in Thermonuclear war. Either way, this is not some popcorn moment



American young generation are too weak to fight. Their parents say: Ukraine is not my country. Why should we send our only sons to Ukraine to fight and die?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564963324214890497


----------



## The SC




----------



## The SC



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564963324214890497


----------



## Soldier35

Losses of Ukraine during the counteroffensive in the Kherson direction. The first footage of the consequences of the unsuccessful counter-offensive of the Ukrainian army in the Kherson direction began to appear. Officially, approximately 26 tanks, 23 infantry fighting vehicles, two Su-25 attack aircraft and 560 soldiers are reported to have been lost by the Ukrainian army. There is no video for all the affected equipment yet. Now you can see only a part of the affected military equipment of Ukraine. The result of this counteroffensive was the capture of the settlements of Andreevka and Lozovoe, several others have already been lost by the Ukrainian army. According to the latest data, Russia launched a counteroffensive.






Ukraine showed MiG-29 with AGM-88 HARM missiles. On the video you can see the flight of a Ukrainian pilot on a MiG-29 aircraft and the launch of AGM-88 HARM missiles.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564968141087805442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564971867412242432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564967475346907136

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565009632397086726


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564966588574564353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564920855741845505


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564908510701187072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564905622159740928


----------



## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Why would US send troop? It's Europe problem, and there is nothing in Ukraine........
> 
> And I would not "sit back and enjoy the pop corn" if I were you, seeing Ukraine themselves manage to fight the Russian to a draw, if US get involved, it will either be a complete Russian Collapse, or a World engage in Thermonuclear war. Either way, this is not some popcorn moment


lol excuses excuses excuses.... Russia is not Eyraq and yanks know whats coming if they go in and needle the bear....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565017851387420678

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565016251247763459

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565007383218249729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565004138605420545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565004147077910534

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564986270744453122


Viet said:


> There is an informal agreement within the Nato: no western tanks, no western fighter jets to Ukraine. There is a risk of direct escalation the Nato wants to avoid.
> The question is how long can the Nato keep that agreement considering Russia pursues an aggressive foreign policy.
> Germany is considering light tanks delivery to Ukraine.
> Should Ukraine get western tanks and jets the war would be over in months.



Tanks are very vulnerable in this war. Western tanks don't have active protection and don't shoot anti tank missiles. They only have short range 120 mm gun and have a crew of 4. It would be terrible loss of man power for Ukraine if Germany supplies Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine considering these tanks performed poorly in Syria.









Germany’s Leopard 2 Tank in Syria Was Beaten Badly in Battle. Why?


Here's what happened.




nationalinterest.org





Typhoon fighter jets however should be able to make an impact if Germany and the UK supply all their Typhoon fighter jets for the war in Ukraine. There they be facing off against Su-35, Su-57, MiG-31 backed by A-50 AWACs.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564990305908178946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564985939633504256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564985947233685504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564983813960355840


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564955751512264709


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> lol excuses excuses excuses.... Russia is not Eyraq and yanks know whats coming if they go in and needle the bear....


Well, consider Ukraine is 10 times smaller than Russia, and still they got beaten back twice and Russian invasion still going nowhere. yes, Russia is not Iraq........

I mean at least Iraq won't lose a flag ship and an island to an enemy without even a Navy......Tell me, how do Russian manage to do that? LOL 

You have to be extremely stupid to look at how Russian having a go in Ukraine and think "I wish my army perform just like that"

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564969074551099396

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564980614121537539

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564964359415160833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564929111033782274


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565017851387420678
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565016251247763459
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565007383218249729
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565004138605420545
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565004147077910534


So despite denial Russia troop admit Ukraine army is breaking thru deep into the first line of defense at Cherson. 
Now Ukraine mechanized corps should utilize the momentum.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565049678185512962


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565002509030236165

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## Thinker3

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565002509030236165


Russia has China, North Korea and Iran to supply them with unlimited amount of weapons and ammunition.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565049796079099907


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565027164528975875

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565024298238099457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565024309252341766

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564936888317841409


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Thinker3 said:


> Russia has China, North Korea and Iran to supply them with unlimited amount of weapons and ammunition.



Not unlimited but probably enough to keep the war going.


----------



## Thinker3

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Not unlimited but probably enough to keep the war going.


If it was only Iran, then I could agree but North Korea has enough capacity to provide huge supplies of arms and ammunition and if you bring China into the picture then unlimited supply.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565053007137587200


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Viet said:


> So despite denial Russia troop admit Ukraine army is breaking thru deep into the first line of defense at Cherson.
> Now Ukraine mechanized corps should utilize the momentum.
> 
> 
> View attachment 875238



Ukraine will regain all the lost territory including Crimea by the end of September, 2022.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565027479424745472


----------



## Ali_Baba

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565049796079099907



All i can infer from this video is :

1 - Russian Su25 have piss piss piss poor navigation systems that a $200 dollar phone does a better job than those on a "Russian" multimillion pound jet.

2 - Russia Su25 pilots have piss piss piss poor combat techinques - firing rockets randomly into the air hoping they hit some - or more likely nothing.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> So despite denial Russia troop admit Ukraine army is breaking thru deep into the first line of defense at Cherson.
> Now Ukraine mechanized corps should utilize the momentum.
> 
> 
> View attachment 875238


you want to send tanks and armor there ? that narrow gap would be their slaughter house


----------



## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Well, consider Ukraine is 10 times smaller than Russia, and still they got beaten back twice and Russian invasion still going nowhere. yes, Russia is not Iraq........
> 
> I mean at least Iraq won't lose a flag ship and an island to an enemy without even a Navy......Tell me, how do Russian manage to do that? LOL
> 
> You have to be extremely stupid to look at how Russian having a go in Ukraine and think "I wish my army perform just like that"


Stop beat around the bush, Just go in and librate UKR, Lets see. Bet ya Amreak will only rely on proxies and terrorists.. Just go in I dare you... LMAO..



Viet said:


> There is an informal agreement within the Nato: no western tanks, no western fighter jets to Ukraine. There is a risk of direct escalation the Nato wants to avoid.
> The question is how long can the Nato keep that agreement considering Russia pursues an aggressive foreign policy.
> Germany is considering light tanks delivery to Ukraine.
> Should Ukraine get western tanks and jets the war would be over in months.



All these agreements are not worth the toilet paper they are written on, there was no agreement with Kuwait either.... But let me give you the closing argument... Russkies have a plutonium rod that can screw west left right and center.. So you will only see west directly getting involved with countries that cannot hit back... Screw with the bear and you are finished.

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## NotSure

HorusRa said:


> How is the 3-day "special military operation" going? lmao


Why are you so butthurt about the Russians, Frito?


----------



## MeFishToo

K_Bin_W said:


> Stop beat around the bush, Just go in and librate UKR, Lets see. Bet ya Amreak will only rely on proxies and terrorists.. Just go in I dare you... LMAO..
> 
> 
> 
> All these agreements are not worth the toilet paper they are written on, there was no agreement with Kuwait either.... But let me give you the closing argument... Russkies have a plutonium rod that can screw west left right and center.. So you will only see west directly getting involved with countries that cannot hit back... Screw with the bear and you are finished.


The assumption that Russia is a superpower and that russian victory is inevitable is the reason Russia has been making a fool of itself in Ukraine these last 6 months. There is no reason for outsiders to make the same mistake.

You know Russia doesnt stand a chance in a conventional war against the USA, so why pretend they do. But youre right about asking the US to come to Ukraine or Russia, because unlike Russia the US has real projection power.

And there is no point mentioning nuclear weapons since the US has the same capacity, unless your argument is the russians are more insane than the americans.

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## K_Bin_W

MeFishToo said:


> The assumption that Russia is a superpower and that russian victory is inevitable is the reason Russia has been making a fool of itself in Ukraine these last 6 months. There is no reason for outsiders to make the same mistake.
> 
> You know Russia doesnt stand a chance in a conventional war against the USA, so why pretend they do. But youre right about asking the US to come to Ukraine or Russia, because unlike Russia the US has real projection power.
> 
> And there is no point mentioning nuclear weapons since the US has the same capacity, unless your argument is the russians are more insane than the americans.


You are not getting the gist, case in Point how amreekan behavior changes depending on the enemy it is going against. It only has 2 choices and it has exercised both around the world. Go direct or use proxies and terrorists and the choice is quite obvious in UKR.


----------



## Viet

The report of German state television ZDF on Ukraine offensive.

Ukraine troop broke thru however Russia defense lines at Cherson are too strong, too complex to overcome, and due to Russia artillery concentrated fire. Ukraine troop withdrew and retreated to the initial position.
Ukraine now using Himars to soften Russia defense lines. That’s new, using Himars at close distance. In the past Ukraine army using Himars to attack long distant targets.






__





Gegenschläge um Cherson: Wie läuft die Ukraine-Offensive? - ZDFheute


Die Gegenoffensive der Ukraine in der Region Cherson ist in vollem Gange. Warum schnelle Erfolge aber unwahrscheinlich sind.




amp.zdf.de


----------



## MeFishToo

K_Bin_W said:


> You are not getting the gist, case in Point how amreekan behavior changes depending on the enemy it is going against. It only has 2 choices and it has exercised both around the world. Go direct or use proxies and terrorists and the choice is quite obvious in UKR.


Russia has been using proxies in Ukraine since 2014, and now theyre drawn into a war they cant win. Whats the difference?
Ukraine won worldwide support from the real democracies, including the US. Ukraine is capable of winning this war with arms supplies from the west, and Russia cant do anything about it except live in denial (as they do).

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MeFishToo said:


> Russia has been using proxies in Ukraine since 2014, and now theyre drawn into a war they cant win. Whats the difference?
> Ukraine won worldwide support from the real democracies, including the US. Ukraine is capable of winning this war with arms supplies from the west, and Russia cant do anything about except live in denial (as they do).



Not only the West but Muslims powers like Turkiye and Pakistan are strongly supporting Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## K_Bin_W

MeFishToo said:


> Russia has been using proxies in Ukraine since 2014, and now theyre drawn into a war they cant win. Whats the difference?
> Ukraine won worldwide support from the real democracies, including the US. Ukraine is capable of winning this war with arms supplies from the west, and Russia cant do anything about except live in denial (as they do).


Oh really the west will win in UKR, yeah sure and I have a bridge to sell. West will win like it did in Nam, noko, Astan and countless other places.

But that still doesn't explain Amreekan behavior.


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> you want to send tanks and armor there ? that narrow gap would be their slaughter house


tanks are offensive weapon. Only tanks can take down heavy fortified positions.
At Cherson the Russians have 25,000 men on the west bank of the river. They dug in with 3 defense lines.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

K_Bin_W said:


> Oh really the west will win in UKR, yeah sure and I have a bridge to sell. West will win like it did in Nam, noko, Astan and countless other places.
> 
> But that still doesn't explain Amreekan behavior.



Ukraine is already winning.

First the Russians said they will destroy Ukranian Army and do a regime change. That plan failed miserably.

Then the Russians said they will take Donabss. That plan failed.

Then they said they will escalate if Crimea were to be hit. Russia lost most of their Naval fleet and Airforce in Crimea but could not do anything.

Russians are losing the whole of Donbass and Crimea as speak.

Russians have become a laughing stock of the world.

All Russian equipment turned out to be a piece of junk and their tactics stuck in WW2.

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## MeFishToo

K_Bin_W said:


> Oh really the west will win in UKR, yeah sure and I have a bridge to sell. West will win like it did in Nam, noko, Astan and countless other places.
> 
> But that still doesn't explain Amreekan behavior.


You are projecting. Reality is Russia is caught up in this mess. 
Ukraine is fighting of an invader with supplies of arms. The west and all the other countries supporting Ukraine is not winning anything in Ukraine except a moral victory.


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## K_Bin_W

MeFishToo said:


> You are projecting. Reality is Russia is caught up in this mess.
> Ukraine is fighting of an invader with supplies of arms. The west and all the other countries supporting *Ukraine is not winning anything in Ukraine except a moral victory*.


Yes I know...



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukraine is already winning.
> 
> First the Russians said they will destroy Ukranian Army and do a regime change. That plan failed miserably.
> 
> Then the Russians said they will take Donabss. That plan failed.
> 
> Then they said they will escalate if Crimea were to be hit. Russia lost most of their Naval fleet and Airforce in Crimea but could not do anything.
> 
> Russians are losing the whole of Donbass and Crimea as speak.
> 
> Russians have become a laughing stock of the world.
> 
> All Russian equipment turned out to be a piece of junk and their tactics stuck in WW2.


Really, Russia is losing, where on twitter or PDF? LMAO


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## MeFishToo

Viet said:


> tanks are offensive weapon. Only tanks can take down heavy fortified positions.
> At Cherson the Russians have 25,000 men on the west bank of the river. They dug in with 3 defense lines.


Could end up the russians digging their own graves on the western side of Dnieper River. Ukraine should focus the artillery on the airborne regiments and special forces brigade, if they can. Theyre holding it together.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565092130606891009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565092161494073345

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565060190269063170
Damn russians are really living like cockroaches


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565059392986386434

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565029477725380609

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565071345016356867


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565094894556913670

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565055816457134080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565051083650646018


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## NotSure

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565002509030236165


 Russian Independent Media? Two lies in a 3 words sentence, lol. The Insider is a) not Russian, it is a british propaganda shithole run by the MI6, b) as such it is not independent. Only independent from reality. 

And by the way: I though Russia ran many times out of weapons. The first time Russia ran out of missiles, according to the island monkeys and their MI6 bots, was in march. Then in april and today i lost the count, how many times Russia ran out of weapons.

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## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> Its called comparative advantage: countries produce what they have an advantage in. Sure they produced fertilizer. But so what. Here are all the things Russia can't do. Much like all the countries that import fertilzer can't produce it economically. Thats how global trade works. It will take 1-2 years and the world will adjust to producing fertilizers.
> 
> 1. Russia couldn't even repair their Nord Stream 1 turbine without sending it to Canada.
> 2. The famed Sukhoi100 jet uses Goodrich wheels, Honeywell Avionics, and engines built with SNEMCA in a JV
> 3. In 2021, computers represented 18% of all its imports. Steel, pharma, industrial machinery are the other big ones.



In an ideal world where trade is truly free from sanctions and subsidies. Then comparative advantage can work. Without subsidies, farming is dead in the US, but why do you think farming is kept alive? Same with China, without subsidies, farming is dead. The only reason is because food is a strategic commodity, people literally die if you have no food, you can have the most advanced economy but the whole shit crumbles with no food. Same goes with energy, hence why oil and gas prices are more expensive in China because most fields here are only profitable around 50$, few years back when oil dropped to 30 or 40$, we were selling oil at 50$ domestically to keep the fields running. Why? Because we want a 50% energy independence ratio. Unlike woke Germans and Japs who shut down all nukes and suffering inflation now. Look how Japan is now so desperate to restart some nuke plants and Germany some coal and nuke plants. This is called strategic planning. Russia can literally procure most of what they need from CHINA. 


For your list of advanced goods like Computers and turbines. China can produces all of those, but they are not the best. A 3% deficiency in compressors can mean alot of lost profit for Russia. The question is whether Russia wants lost profit or NO PROFIT. During peacetime, everybody goes for the best deal, when economic war happens, people will opt for friendlier versions even when it is not the best option. The same compressor Russia bought is produced by Shaanxi Compressors but less advanced, so is Russia willing to buy dongdong branded compressors and keep their plants running or let them shut down permanently. What do you think. HARVESTERS are not that big of a deal in my opinion, had been almost the same since the 60s, China is only weak in turbine engines and high end chips. We produce both but not the best, give us some market and experience. We can make wonders.

Let me tell you a story about a PLC controller we are using for one of our skids. We had been using Siemens S7 for years and its good and reliable and branded, they even produce it in China to be competitive. Then one day came a Chinese vendor, they produce an even better product and its secured from hacking due to Chinese military requirements. Remember the stuxnet attack by Israel on Iran, they were using Siemens PLC. But our company being a MNC refused to even consider this Chinese company even when it Is better and cheaper, why? There is something called market entrenchment. Siemens and maybe 2 other companies is entrenched in the market due to their cartel like dominance. Its always competition of the trio. Specs and approved vendors list were written to only favour the trio. Ultimately, they just recycle their decades old products with some new software interface and retain their dominance, minor advancement. OTOH, the Chinese company is really bringing something new to the table. So do you think this is free market competition? It is only free market competition for the established players. Alot of the current sensor and transmitter vendors are selling legacy products from the 80s with some packaging, to squeeze the most profit out of their old products.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565045161201209346

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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> Stop beat around the bush, Just go in and librate UKR, Lets see. Bet ya Amreak will only rely on proxies and terrorists.. Just go in I dare you... LMAO..


lol, sure, US should go because you dare us......   

Don't run if you can walk, don't walk if you can sit down, don't sit down if you can lie down, don't fight if you do not have to. Tell me, what is the advantage of US going to war with Russia when the Ukrainian is doing the job for them, Russia army is being killed in dove and Russia economic is going down to drain and mean while NATO expanded with 2 more countries with Sweden and Finland, all in exchange of 40 billion and no US Troop death. That's a bargain. 

And that's what Proxy was for, that's why you don't need to fight yourself. Winning a war is not a simply would you dare, you fight with your brain and if you can win a war without any casualty, it's stupid not to take that route. That's probably why you people are always used as proxy. You don't have a brain......

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> sure, US should go because you dare us......
> 
> Don't run if you can walk, don't walk if you can sit down, don't sit down if you can lie down, don't fight if you do not have to. Tell me, what is the advantage of US going to war with Russia when the Ukrainian is doing the job for them, Russia army is being killed in dove and Russia economic is going down to drain and mean while NATO expanded with 2 more countries with Sweden and Finland, all in exchange of 40 billion and no US Troop death. That's a bargain.
> 
> And that's what Proxy was for, that's why you don't need to fight yourself. Winning a war is not a simply would you dare, you fight with your brain and if you can win a war without any casualty, it's stupid not to take that route. That's probably why you people are always used as proxy. You don't have a brain......


Your gibberish is completely out of context it simply does not add up.. the great amreeka is pussy footing in UKR when it goes and liberate other countries at a drop of a hat.

Amreekan proxies and terrorist are not gona work against Russkies or China, just go in and liberate Kuwait oops i meant UKR, please pretty please. LMAO..

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## aviator_fan

K_Bin_W said:


> lol excuses excuses excuses.... Russia is not Eyraq and yanks know whats coming if they go in and needle the bear....


Your big powerful bear has turned out to have the size of a mouse. Russia's grandness (through USSR times) was to project its world wide power based on conventional war. You don't need to be a bear to unleash a nuclear conflict. Hell even the mouse of the world North Korea that is a 4th world country can lead the world to nuclear conflict.

If this is the last defence that 'watch how great Russia and Putin are that if NATO fights, he will unleash nuclear destruction' seems a pathetic position to admire Russia from. It relegates them to the size of North Korea in terms of influence. You don't dominate the world if your only recourse is to blow up the world.

Russia had a grand vision: maintain its greatness and expand its boundaries and influence by first taking on Ukraine and putting in its rightful place (or Russia's definition of the rightful place) and then get the other small former USSR to submit based on that fear). Instead its bogged down in a no-win situation that is no different from Afghanistan. And you think the bear's ultimate nuclear capability should be admired. May be. But not the greatness that Russia wanted to achieve out of this.

My point is not to pass judgment on Russia should or should not have done it. NATO countries have defined their own moral just wars. But I am saying that admiring Russia for its ability to unlease MAD (mutually assured destruction) is a not a sign of its power. Russia was capable of better. Y

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## K_Bin_W

aviator_fan said:


> Your big powerful bear has turned out to have the size of a mouse. Russia's grandness (through USSR times) was to project its world wide power based on conventional war. You don't need to be a bear to unleash a nuclear conflict. Hell even the mouse of the world North Korea that is a 4th world country can lead the world to nuclear conflict.
> 
> If this is the last defence that 'watch how great Russia and Putin are that if NATO fights, he will unless nuclear destruction' seems a pathetic position to admire Russia from. It relegates them to the size of North Korea in terms of influence. You don't dominate the world if your only recourse is to blow up the world.
> 
> Russia had a grand vision: maintain its greatness and expand its boundaries and influence by first taking on Ukraine and putting in its rightful place (or Russia's definition of the rightful place) and then get the other small former USSR to submit based on that fear). Instead its bogged down in a no-win situation that is no different from Afghanistan. And you think the bear's ultimate nuclear capability should be admired. May be. But not the greatness that Russia wanted to achieve out of this.
> 
> My point is not to pass judgment on Russia should or should not have done it. NATO countries have defined their own moral just wars. But I am saying that admiring Russia for its ability to unlease MAD (mutually assured destruction) is a not a sign of its power. Russia was capable of better. Y


I stopped right at "size of a mouse" that's why NATO is scared shyt to go in... I think you should get out more often..

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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> Your gibberish is completely out of context it simply does not add up.. the great amreeka is pussy footing in UKR when it goes and liberate other countries at a drop of a hat.
> 
> Amreekan proxies and terrorist are not gona work against Russkies or China, just go in and liberate Kuwait oops i meant UKR, please pretty please. LMAO..



Again, why? Just because your bruised ego said so.

And how to liberate Kuwait when Ukraine is not completely occupied by Russia? How to liberate Kyiv when it is already free lol??

And if Russia is that strong, why not they come to NATO? That's the same argument applies, are they chicken shit to piss off NATO? Why not really attack US and UK transport that fly into Kyiv daily to deliver the weapon like they said they would? I mean how many time Russia said any NATO plane bring in Weapon are legitimate target. Yet not a single one is shot down....

Come shoot down those NATO transport plane and see what will happen, please, pretty please.

LOL   Two can play this game dude.

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Again, why? Just because your bruised ego said so.
> 
> And how to liberate Kuwait when Ukraine is not completely occupied by Russia? How to liberate Kyiv when it is already free lol??
> 
> And if Russia is that strong, why not they come to NATO? That's the same argument applies, are they chicken shit to piss off NATO? Why not really attack US and UK transport that fly into Kyiv daily to deliver the weapon like they said they would? I mean how many time Russia said any NATO plane bring in Weapon are legitimate target. Yet not a single one is shot down....
> 
> Come shoot down those NATO transport plane and see what will happen, please, pretty please.
> 
> LOL   Two can play this game dude.


It's not the Russkies that go around the world and liberate poor helpless countries but US. Try that same shyte in UKR and see how it works out.. Pretty please one more time. Lolz

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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> It's not the Russkies that go around the world and liberate poor helpless countries but US. Try that same shyte in UKR and see how it works out.. Pretty please one more time. Lolz


Well, it's the Russkie that go around Ukraine and attack Ukraine first, why not try it on Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia? Come shoot some missile into them and see what happened? Aren't their goal is to roll back on NATO??

Russia is such a pxssy, said they want to fight NATO expansion and picking the only non-NATO country to fight, try the same shit in Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia and see how it work out, I dare you. lol, please, pretty please.

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Well, it's the Russkie that go around Ukraine and attack Ukraine first, why not try it on Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia? Come shoot some missile into them and see what happened? Aren't their goal is to roll back on NATO??
> 
> Russia is such a pxssy, said they want to fight NATO expansion and picking the only non-NATO country to fight, try the same shit in Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia and see how it work out, I dare you. lol, please, pretty please.


Same beat around the bush - Try to comprehend if you can... Amreeka is the one that is in the habit of liberating poor helpless weaker countries... How about liberating UKR... It would be nice to get Crimea back too..No.. LMAO....

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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> Same beat around the bush - Try to comprehend if you can... Amreeka is the one that is in the habit of liberating poor helpless weaker countries... How about liberating UKR... It would be nice to get Crimea back too..No.. LMAO....


Again, why Ukraine needs to be liberated when it is already free? I am sorry, I didn't see Russian Troop in Kyiv when I was overthere in April.

Russia is the one that go around the world and start fire, Syria, Afghanistan, Georgia, Ukraine. And now it's too pusxy shitless to start a war with NATO but instead invade Ukraine? LOL Stop beating around the bush and do something to NATO expansion? I dare you.

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Again, why Ukraine needs to be liberated when it is already free? I am sorry, I didn't see Russian Troop in Kyiv when I was overthere in April.
> 
> Russia is the one that go around the world and start fire, Syria, Afghanistan, Georgia, Ukraine. And now it's too pusxy shitless to start a war with NATO but instead invade Ukraine? LOL Stop beating around the bush and do something to NATO expansion? I dare you.



LOL your rebuttals are hilarious at best, Go back and comprehend the gist and then see the difference in Amreekan behavior... Putins plutonium rod is way too big for combined NATO to take on.. LOLzz...


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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> LOL your rebuttals are hilarious at best, Go back and comprehend the gist and then see the difference in Amreekan behavior... Putins plutonium rod is way too big for combined NATO to take on.. LOLzz...


lol, US plutonium rod is bigger, and more useful and is proven to work...That's why Russkie don't dare set foot on one inch of NATO territories lol  

Is that's why Russian strategy on fighting NATO is to fight non-NATO country so making other Non-NATO country join NATO and surround Russia even more?? LOL


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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> lol, US plutonium rod is bigger, and more useful and is proven to work...That's why Russkie don't dare set foot on one inch of NATO territories lol


Yes we saw that US Rod in Nam and NoKo when US tried to wave in front of the Russkies we all know the outcome.. LMAO...


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## Mrc

What happened to ukerainian counter offensive?

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## K_Bin_W

Mrc said:


> What happened to ukerainian counter offensive?


Where have you been all this time, It has come and gone only on twitter or PDF..

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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> Yes we saw that US Rod in Nam and NoKo when US tried to wave in front of the Russkies we all know the outcome.. LMAO...


lol, try Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

While I had fun keep pissing people like you off, I can keep using your own argument against you and I could do it literally forever, but I have better things to do.

Come back and talk to me when Russia occupied the entire Ukraine, talking trash when you can't even finish what you had started is just Bullshit. Take Ukraine first, then we will talk.........I mean, what kind of army can't even take a countries 10 times smaller with a tiny ground force, small airforce and no navy. And you are talking about want to challenge the US?

lol  



Mrc said:


> What happened to ukerainian counter offensive?


Progress of Ukrainian counter offensive as of Aug 30 (as mapped by geolocated information)

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> lol, try Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
> 
> While I had fun keep pissing people like you off, I can keep using your own argument against you and I could do it literally forever, but I have better things to do.
> 
> Come back and talk to me when Russia occupied the entire Ukraine, talking trash when you can't even finish what you had started is just Bullshit. Take Ukraine first, then we will talk.........I mean, what kind of army can't even take a countries 10 times smaller with a tiny ground force, small airforce and no navy. And you are talking about want to challenge the US?
> 
> lol
> 
> 
> Progress of Ukrainian counter offensive (as mapped by geolocated information)
> 
> View attachment 875313



LOL - You seem to be getting extremely frustrated with each rebuttal. My pleasure.. with Nagasaki and Hiroshima you prove my point without a shadow of a doubt. Now try the same shyt on the Russkies...

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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> LOL - You seem to be getting extremely frustrated with each rebuttal. My pleasure.. with Nagasaki and Hiroshima you prove my point without a shadow of a doubt. Now try the same shyt on the Russkies...


Dude, learn some English

Rebuttal is with reference and evidence, what you are stating is your opinion, as you did not gave any reference nor evidence to support your point. That's different. 

And unlike you, I have stuff to do and deadline to follow, you want to talk about how Great the Russian army is, that's you. Everybody with a pair of working eyes saw how the Russian perform in this war. And it is not just a joke at international level. The running joke in Russia currently is there are no fries in Russian McDonald's replacement "Tasty, Period". In a country of Potatoes, there are no French fries in any of Tasty, Period store. What, the great Mother Russia can't manage to crack how to make French fries?

Again, take Ukraine first, then, maybe only then, we can talk, otherwise I am not interested in debating with someone else wet dream, as I said, I could have, but that does not interest me at all.

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Dude, learn some English
> 
> Rebuttal is with reference and evidence, what you are stating is your opinion, as you did not gave any reference nor evidence to support your point. That's different.
> 
> And unlike you, I have stuff to do and deadline to follow, you want to talk about how Great the Russian army is, that's you. Everybody with a pair of working eyes saw how the Russian perform in this war. And it is not just a joke at international level. The running joke in Russia currently is there are no fries in Russian McDonald's replacement "Tasty, Period". In a country of Potatoes, there are no French fries in any of Tasty, Period store. What, the great Mother Russia can't manage to crack how to make French fries?
> 
> Again, take Ukraine first, then, maybe only then, we can talk, otherwise I am not interested in debating with someone else wet dream, as I said, I could have, but that does not interest me at all.


See you also have a serious comprehension problem... You need to go right back up and go line by line and stop where it does not sink....

BTW your Macdonalds and potatoes yada yada yada is another example of your gibberish that does not add up.


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## aviator_fan

Thinker3 said:


> Russia has China, North Korea and Iran to supply them with unlimited amount of weapons and ammunition.


So much Russia greatness as a potential second supwerpower, which is the position they started the war from. For a near superpower to rely on the likes of North Korea to maintain status quo seems quite a dissapointment in the Russia capabilities. And to be subservient to China, a next door neighbor, with whom they had a philosophical disagreement on the form of Communism since the 50s.

Not exactly a win for Russia given where it started with its military might and big ambitions to subjugate the satellite countries



K_Bin_W said:


> Oh really the west will win in UKR, yeah sure and I have a bridge to sell. West will win like it did in Nam, noko, Astan and countless other places.
> 
> But that still doesn't explain Amreekan behavior.


You are defining victory for west as Ukraine to be free. Actually the goal is likely bigger: bring Russia industry to its knees and weaken it even if Russia wins in the 6 months by some miracle. In a year 70% of Russian airliners will be non operational. That is the slow weakening.


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## aviator_fan

K_Bin_W said:


> I stopped right at "size of a mouse" that's why NATO is scared shyt to go in... I think you should get out more often..


When the war started, you used to see columns of 100s of tanks from Russia all mobilized. NATO, regardless of you think they are good or bad, has relegated this to where Russia even had to pull its S300s from Syria to use against a country that has barely 30 aircraft. The greatness of Russia is shattered. NATO accomplished this through what we all know (providing weapons) but we don't know (intel intercepts, targeting data) and all. 

If you assume that Ukranians are duds and idiots and at the behest of their NATO masters to manipulate them (and the entire male population can be dominated this way), then NATO was smart enough to do this. May be Russia led by a former KGB guy should have had some strategy too instead of going in like Qaddafi or Saddam would have: go in brute force to be then in stalemate.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> You are defining victory for west as Ukraine to be free. Actually the goal is likely bigger: bring Russia industry to its knees and weaken it even if Russia wins in the 6 months by some miracle. In a year 70% of Russian airliners will be non operational. That is the slow weakening.



In 1989 the West imposed arms embargo on China to strangle China into surrender to the West. Today China makes top notch J-20 fighter jets, 055 warships, Type 99A2 tanks, Type 093B submarines. The more the West strangles, the stronger China and Russia become and more self reliant.



aviator_fan said:


> When the war started, you used to see columns of 100s of tanks from Russia all mobilized. NATO, regardless of you think they are good or bad, has relegated this to where Russia even had to pull its S300s from Syria to use against a country that has barely 30 aircraft. The greatness of Russia is shattered. NATO accomplished this through what we all know (providing weapons) but we don't know (intel intercepts, targeting data) and all.
> 
> If you assume that Ukranians are duds and idiots and at the behest of their NATO masters to manipulate them (and the entire male population can be dominated this way), then NATO was smart enough to do this. May be Russia led by a former KGB guy should have had some strategy too instead of going in like Qaddafi or Saddam would have: go in brute force to be then in stalemate.



Ukraine may be as powerful as they say it is but so far Ukraine still has not been able to invade Russia and take a single major Russian city. Hmm. Maybe not as powerful as they say it is.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> In 1989 the West imposed arms embargo on China to strangle China into surrender to the West. Today China makes top notch J-20 fighter jets, 055 warships, Type 99A2 tanks, Type 093B submarines. The more the West strangles, the stronger China and Russia become and more self reliant.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine may be as powerful as they say it is but so far Ukraine still has not been able to invade Russia and take a single major Russian city. Hmm. Maybe not as powerful as they say it is.


Let me first state that I have no dislike for China. I like a balanced world. But at the same time let me give you some context. China's weapon advancement while admirable, did not happen in a vacum or was some divine destiny. It happened because of the growth of its economy. And almost all that growth for the last 30 years has been because of foreign investment sfrom Europe, US (from cheap socks to iphones). Taiwan , the renegade province, was the first country to take advantage of this. Taiwan led the way in this since they across industries and the west followed after that.

So there was mutual benefit (despite the policy differences) because it was a symbiotic relationship. That economic growth (or transfer of wealth) then led to ingenuity of Chinese to kick-in to produce the weapons you say.

That was then. Russia will get no such economic growth or benefit. Its rich people have left. Its smart people are leaving. You need a prosperous country, a growing economy, and that powers the rest. 

Iran and N. Korea is more likely what Russia's future looks like. Its unfortunate, because a unipolar world does no good to the rest of the world and unfortunately thats where things are headed.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Let me first state that I have no dislike for China. I like a balanced world. But at the same time let me give you some context. China's weapon advancement while admirable, did not happen in a vacum or was some divine destiny. It happened because of the growth of its economy. And almost all that growth for the last 30 years has been because of foreign investment sfrom Europe, US (from cheap socks to iphones). Taiwan , the renegade province, was the first country to take advantage of this. Taiwan led the way in this since they across industries and the west followed after that.
> 
> So there was mutual benefit (despite the policy differences) because it was a symbiotic relationship. That economic growth (or transfer of wealth) then led to ingenuity of Chinese to kick-in to produce the weapons you say.
> 
> That was then. Russia will get no such economic growth or benefit. Its rich people have left. Its smart people are leaving. You need a prosperous country, a growing economy, and that powers the rest.
> 
> Iran and N. Korea is more likely what Russia's future looks like. Its unfortunate, because a unipolar world does no good to the rest of the world and unfortunately thats where things are headed.



A nation's prosperity depends on the discipline of its population. A disciplined nation is prosperous. A not disciplined nation is not prosperous.

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## Thinker3

aviator_fan said:


> So much Russia greatness as a potential second supwerpower, which is the position they started the war from. For a near superpower to rely on the likes of North Korea to maintain status quo seems quite a dissapointment in the Russia capabilities. And to be subservient to China, a next door neighbor, with whom they had a philosophical disagreement on the form of Communism since the 50s.
> 
> Not exactly a win for Russia given where it started with its military might and big ambitions to subjugate the satellite countries
> 
> 
> You are defining victory for west as Ukraine to be free. Actually the goal is likely bigger: bring Russia industry to its knees and weaken it even if Russia wins in the 6 months by some miracle. In a year 70% of Russian airliners will be non operational. That is the slow weakening.


What do you have to say about the US who invaded Afghanistan with NATO counties and the whole world's support? against people with Ak's and still lost, and again invaded Iraq with Britian, Australia, and others, compared to that Russia is fighting Ukraine which is fully backed by the EU, Britain, and the US with an unlimited supply of advanced arms and ammunition and mercenaries and volunteers from different western countries.
If Iraq or Afghanistan had such support US would have been defeated in a month or two.


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## Viet

Thinker3 said:


> What do you have to say about the US who invaded Afghanistan with NATO counties and the whole world's support? against people with Ak's and still lost, and again invaded Iraq with Britian, Australia, and others, compared to that Russia is fighting Ukraine which is fully backed by the EU, Britain, and the US with an unlimited supply of advanced arms and ammunition and mercenaries and volunteers from different western countries.
> If Iraq or Afghanistan had such support US would have been defeated in a month or two.


Stop using US invasion of other countries as excuse for Russia invasion of Ukraine. By that logic we would see hundred of wars tomorrow, in Europe, Africa, Far East.
Russia, Putin agreed in Helsinki treaty to Nato expansion, agreed not changing countries by force, agreed not attacking Ukraine.

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## NotSure

German regime today: No matter what my german voters think.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/x2xfpc

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## Viet

NotSure said:


> German regime today: No matter what my german voters think.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/x2xfpc


Defending Ukraine is essential for European security, very important for US security, that’s why Ukraine will get money and weapons as long as Ukraine needs it.


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## ZeGerman

Thinker3 said:


> What do you have to say about the US who invaded Afghanistan with NATO counties and the whole world's support? against people with Ak's and still lost, and again invaded Iraq with Britian, Australia, and others, compared to that Russia is fighting Ukraine which is fully backed by the EU, Britain, and the US with an unlimited supply of advanced arms and ammunition and mercenaries and volunteers from different western countries.
> If Iraq or Afghanistan had such support US would have been defeated in a month or two.


What to say? 

Both afghanistan and iraq conventional war phase was finished succesfully with fast speed and very very low losses. 

It is the “occupation” phase that failed to win hearts and minds and saw decades of insurgency. Eventually they lost patience to try to keep dragging a dead horse and waste billions. 


Quite a difference from now where russia is stalemated in a conventional war with ukraine for its 190th day.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565236579593060353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565212445479735298


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## Thinker3

Viet said:


> Stop using US invasion of other countries as excuse for Russia invasion of Ukraine. By that logic we would see hundred of wars tomorrow, in Europe, Africa, Far East.
> Russia, Putin agreed in Helsinki treaty to Nato expansion, agreed not changing countries by force, agreed not attacking Ukraine.


When did Putin agree to NATO Expansion? I don't think he ever did, it is not just about NATO expansion, it is about regime change in Ukraine by the west(US, UK) and bringing in puppet regime and Ultra Nationalists fascists who are anti-Russian and who committed war crimes against the Russians, then instead of diplomacy and giving respect to Russia creating war in Donbas and killing more Russians.
The truth is that EU countries were no longer interested in NATO and Military buildup and were instead focused on socio-economic development and were getting closer to Russia, so US and probably UK also, created this conflict with Russia to achieve their multiple goals. 



ZeGerman said:


> What to say?
> 
> Both afghanistan and iraq conventional war phase was finished succesfully with fast speed and very very low losses.
> 
> It is the “occupation” phase that failed to win hearts and minds and saw decades of insurgency. Eventually they lost patience to try to keep dragging a dead horse and waste billions.
> 
> 
> Quite a difference from now where russia is stalemated in a conventional war with ukraine for its 190th day.


Like I said if Iraq and Afghanistan had the kind of support Ukraine is receiving they would have defeated the US and NATO in a few months.

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## Viet

Thinker3 said:


> When did Putin agree to NATO Expansion? I don't think he ever did, it is not just about NATO expansion, it is about regime change in Ukraine by the west(US, UK) and bringing in puppet regime and Ultra Nationalists fascists who are anti-Russian and who committed war crimes against the Russians, then instead of diplomacy and giving respect to Russia creating war in Donbas and killing more Russians.
> The truth is that EU countries were no longer interested in NATO and Military buildup and were instead focused on socio-economic development and were getting closer to Russia, so US and probably UK also, created this conflict with Russia to achieve their multiple goals. Ukraine is just a scapegoat for them.
> 
> 
> Like I said if Iraq and Afghanistan had the kind of support Ukraine is receiving they would have defeated the US and NATO in a few months.


In the Paris accord 1997 Boris Jelzin agreed to Nato expansion. In return Nato promised no nukes in East Europe and economic assistance to Russia.









Russland stimmt NATO-Osterweiterung zu | 27.5.1997


Nachdem Russlands Präsident Boris Jelzin sich jahrelang gegen die NATO-Osterweiterung gesperrt hat, wächst das Vertrauen zwischen Russland und dem Westen. 1997 gibt Jelzin den Widerstand auf. Am 27. Mai des Jahres kommt es zur NATO-Russland-Grundakte. Darin verpflichten sich beide Seiten, die...




www.swr.de

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> tanks are offensive weapon. Only tanks can take down heavy fortified positions.
> At Cherson the Russians have 25,000 men on the west bank of the river. They dug in with 3 defense lines.


Sending them expose their flank. Tanks are offensive but they must face enemy not expose their flank to enemy


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## Thinker3

Viet said:


> In the Paris accord 1997 Boris Jelzin agreed to Nato expansion. In return Nato promised no nukes in East Europe and economic assistance to Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russland stimmt NATO-Osterweiterung zu | 27.5.1997
> 
> 
> Nachdem Russlands Präsident Boris Jelzin sich jahrelang gegen die NATO-Osterweiterung gesperrt hat, wächst das Vertrauen zwischen Russland und dem Westen. 1997 gibt Jelzin den Widerstand auf. Am 27. Mai des Jahres kommt es zur NATO-Russland-Grundakte. Darin verpflichten sich beide Seiten, die...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.swr.de


Not true, Russians always opposed expansion of NATO.

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## Viet

Thinker3 said:


> Not true, Russians always opposed expansion of NATO.


that’s a fact: Jelzin signed the pact with the Nato in 1997. Putin as successor had no objection until he changed his mind.

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## gambit

Thinker3 said:


> Like I said if Iraq and Afghanistan had the kind of support Ukraine is receiving they would have defeated the US and NATO in a few months.


I wonder if there are any military academy or think tank or general's staff plan their countries' national defense based upon 'if'. Nevertheless, it is a fair speculation, although, it is also speculative that if a country received support that country would be able to bear US out.


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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Well, it's the Russkie that go around Ukraine and attack Ukraine first, why not try it on Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia? Come shoot some missile into them and see what happened? Aren't their goal is to roll back on NATO??
> 
> Russia is such a pxssy, said they want to fight NATO expansion and picking the only non-NATO country to fight, try the same shit in Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia and see how it work out, I dare you. lol, please, pretty please.



Says an american who can only invade poor weak countries like Afghanistan, iraq, libya lolz and wont dare go into Ukraine. That makes america a pxssy, only good to invad poor countries but cant go against a weak russia with WW2 weapons.

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## Thinker3

gambit said:


> I wonder if there are any military academy or think tank or general's staff plan their countries' national defense based upon 'if'. Nevertheless, it is a fair speculation, although, it is also speculative that if a country received support that country would be able to bear US out.


I don't get what you are trying to say here.



Viet said:


> that’s a fact: Jelzin signed the pact with the Nato in 1997. Putin as successor had no objection until he changed his mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 875366


No, they never agreed to NATO's expansion.

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## ZeGerman

Thinker3 said:


> When did Putin agree to NATO Expansion? I don't think he ever did, it is not just about NATO expansion, it is about regime change in Ukraine by the west(US, UK) and bringing in puppet regime and Ultra Nationalists fascists who are anti-Russian and who committed war crimes against the Russians, then instead of diplomacy and giving respect to Russia creating war in Donbas and killing more Russians.
> The truth is that EU countries were no longer interested in NATO and Military buildup and were instead focused on socio-economic development and were getting closer to Russia, so US and probably UK also, created this conflict with Russia to achieve their multiple goals.
> 
> 
> Like I said if Iraq and Afghanistan had the kind of support Ukraine is receiving they would have defeated the US and NATO in a few months.


You dont know what you are talking about….

Talibs were stalemated against northern alliance. Got absolutely annihilated with minimal extra force. So Throwing few hundreds of javelins/stingers/and dozens of tanks/artillery would not change outcome.

Iraq was 6th sized army. Hundreds of planes and thousands of manpads. Again it got utterly crushed and fell apart. Throwing relatively few extra material at it would not change outcome. 

But please…keep snorting more copium if that makes you feel better

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## Thinker3

ZeGerman said:


> You dont know what you are talking about….
> 
> Talibs were stalemated against northern alliance. Got absolutely annihilated with minimal extra force. So Throwing few hundreds of javelins/stingers/and dozens of tanks/artillery would not change outcome.
> 
> Iraq was 6th sized army. Hundreds of planes and thousands of manpads. Again it got utterly crushed and fell apart. Throwing relatively few extra material at it would not change outcome.
> 
> But please…keep snorting more copium if that makes you feel better


If Taliban got 1/10 of the support Ukraine is getting US would have left Afghanistan in 2 months. You don't know what you are talking about, ask some real military experts what would have happened if taliban had 1/10th of the advanced weapons Ukraine is getting, weapons like ATGM's, SAM's, Snipers etc
Iraq was attacked two times by full power of US and its many allies, Iraq had outdated Soviet equipment, if Iraq had received even half of support Ukraine is receiving with advanced weapons and intelligence, Iraq would have beaten US or atleast defended against the invasion.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565270940920971265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565278823750459392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565276798241357824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565276805015244805

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565218638604472323

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565233417976889344


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## Primus

Thinker3 said:


> If Taliban got 1/10 of the support Ukraine is getting US would have left Afghanistan in 2 months. You don't know what you are talking about, ask some real military experts what would have happened if taliban had 1/10th of the advanced weapons Ukraine is getting, weapons like ATGM's, SAM's, Snipers etc
> Iraq was attacked two times by full power of US and its many allies, Iraq had outdated Soviet equipment, if Iraq had received even half of support Ukraine is receiving with advanced weapons and intelligence, Iraq would have beaten US or atleast defended against the invasion.


Ssshhh, he doesn't know that the ANA its allies only controlled a total of 40% of the Afghanistan. Wonder who had the other 60%? As for Iraq, they only look at the numbers to make them selves feel tough. They never go into the details of the state of the Iraqi armed forces. Such as the T72 tanks using 3BM15 APFSDS rounds, or perhaps the T72 themselves were from the early 70s. Other wise they had the T55A from the 50s and so on.

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## ZeGerman

Primus said:


> Ssshhh, he doesn't know that the ANA its allies only controlled a total of 40% of the Afghanistan. Wonder who had the other 60%?


Dont wonder like an imbecile.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428133443783827459
My point stands. 


Primus said:


> As for Iraq, they only look at the numbers to make them selves feel tough. They never go into the details of the state of the Iraqi armed forces. Such as the T72 tanks using 3BM15 APFSDS rounds, or perhaps the T72 themselves were from the early 70s. Other wise they had the T55A from the 50s and so on.


I look at the numbers and the details and the iraqis were beaten so lopsidedly that a few hundreds of javelins and manpads would not have greatly affected the outcome. Let alone beaten the coalition in two months. 

point stands. 



Next time dont waste serverspace with shitposts….

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> I look at the numbers and the details and the iraqis were beaten so lopsidedly that a few hundreds of javelins and manpads would not have greatly affected the outcome. Let alone beaten the coalition in two months.



Iraqi air defense shot down plenty of Coalition aircraft. If they were supplied and had sufficient ammo they would have won Gulf war.






Coalition Fixed-Wing Attrition in Desert Storm







www.rjlee.org

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## Viet

Thinker3 said:


> Not true, Russians always opposed expansion of NATO.


90 percent correct. Yes, Russia is against NATO expansion however Jelzin accepted the inevitable. He signed the deal with the Nato in 1997. for money. Probably he had no choice. He needed the money. Russia was on brink of collapse. militarily, economically weakened.
People can argue, hey, Russia accepted Nato expansion. Which is correct.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> 90 percent correct. Yes, Russia is against NATO expansion however Jelzin accepted the inevitable. He signed the deal with the Nato in 1997. for money. Probably he had no choice. He needed the money. Russia was on brink of collapse. militarily, economically weakened.
> People can argue, hey, Russia accepted Nato expansion. Which is correct.



Money is printed. If you need money, just print it. Only government can print money. Civilians cannot.


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## ZeGerman

Thinker3 said:


> If Taliban got 1/10 of the support Ukraine is getting US would have left Afghanistan in 2 months. You don't know what you are talking about, ask some real military experts what would have happened if taliban had 1/10th of the advanced weapons Ukraine is getting, weapons like ATGM's, SAM's, Snipers etc
> Iraq was attacked two times by full power of US and its many allies, Iraq had outdated Soviet equipment, if Iraq had received even half of support Ukraine is receiving with advanced weapons and intelligence, Iraq would have beaten US or atleast defended against the invasion.


You sound like baghdad bob. 

The USA had a technological advantage, yet kept spending more on defence then the rest of the world combined for decades…
It is a behemoth. 


In 2 months, with a small force of 6000, together with northern alliance allies, they easily ousted taliban. Suffering 13 casualties….
America could have easily amassed 10 times the force. Yet this was not necessary. 

And here you are stating that if taliban just got 1/10, meaning few hundreds javelin/manpads, handfull of tanks/artillery….they would have beaten the US in 2 months? 


In iraq gulf war coalition had 950.000 men and lost..300? 
such an imbalance in force would not be overcome with donation of some javelins and stingers….

Change your username please. Add “no” before it.

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## Thinker3

Viet said:


> 90 percent correct. Yes, Russia is against NATO expansion however Jelzin accepted the inevitable. He signed the deal with the Nato in 1997. for money. Probably he had no choice. He needed the money. Russia was on brink of collapse. militarily, economically weakened.
> People can argue, hey, Russia accepted Nato expansion. Which is correct.


What is the proof of Jelzin signing a deal for NATO expansion?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565324471698874369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565323101688283138


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## Thinker3

ZeGerman said:


> You sound like baghdad bob.
> 
> The USA had a technological advantage, yet kept spending more on defence then the rest of the world combined for decades…
> It is a behemoth.
> 
> 
> In 2 months, with a small force of 6000, together with northern alliance allies, they easily ousted taliban. Suffering 13 casualties….
> America could have easily amassed 10 times the force. Yet this was not necessary.
> 
> And here you are stating that if taliban just got 1/10, meaning few hundreds javelin/manpads, handfull of tanks/artillery….they would have beaten the US in 2 months?
> 
> 
> In iraq gulf war coalition had 950.000 men and lost..300?
> such an imbalance in force would not be overcome with donation of some javelins and stingers….
> 
> Change your username please. Add “no” before it.


I don't argue with the ignorant.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565318906553720834


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## Viet

Thinker3 said:


> What is the proof of Jelzin signing a deal for NATO expansion?


“Nato/Russia master file on basic principles”

Signed by Jelzin and all members of the Nato

You can google it.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565321848396587009


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## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> I look at the numbers and the details and the iraqis were beaten so lopsidedly that a few hundreds of javelins and manpads would not have greatly affected the outcome. Let alone beaten the coalition in two months.
> 
> point stands.
> 
> 
> 
> Next time dont waste serverspace with shitposts….


Iraq did not possess any credible AT weaponry to destroy enemy tanks. All their equipment was heavily outdated and obsolete by the time it came to the first gulf War.

What is a base RpG7 supposed to do against an Abrams? Their tanks were obsolete using obsolete ammo. I mean the only credible thing they had wad their AD which shot down some 45 coalition jets down. (Total coalition losses come to 75). 

You clearly didn't go into the details. You probably looked at numbers on the Wikipedia page and thought " omg muh nato so stronk"

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## Thinker3

Primus said:


> Iraq did not possess any credible AT weaponry to destroy enemy tanks. All their equipment was heavily outdated and obsolete by the time it came to the first gulf War.
> 
> What is a base RpG7 supposed to do against an Abrams? Their tanks were obsolete using obsolete ammo. I mean the only credible thing they had wad their AD which shot down some 45 coalition jets down. (Total coalition losses come to 75).
> 
> You clearly didn't go into the details. You probably looked at numbers on the Wikipedia page and thought " omg muh nato so stronk"


Their Airdefence was also outdated, if they had the likes of S300 and other late Soviet weapons, or even late era Soviet manpads things would have been much different. Their Airforce was also outdated and obsolete.

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## Thinker3

Viet said:


> “Nato/Russia master file on basic principles”
> 
> Signed by Jelzin and all members of the Nato
> 
> You can google it.
> 
> View attachment 875417


I can't find anything saying Jelzin agreed to NATO expansion, if you have something credible kindly share here.


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## Viet

Thinker3 said:


> I can't find anything saying Jelzin agreed to NATO expansion, if you have something credible kindly share here.


Here from the Nato
The Nato/Russia agreement of May 27, 1997
in 3 languages English, Russian and French





__





Loading…






www.nato.int


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## A.P. Richelieu

K_Bin_W said:


> Stop beat around the bush, Just go in and librate UKR, Lets see. Bet ya Amreak will only rely on proxies and terrorists.. Just go in I dare you... LMAO..


Makes me think of a pro-verb:

It is ridiculous listening to lice coughing.
Why do you think anyone that makes decisions cares what You think more than they care about those lice?

Do you think it is smart to ”dare a thread participant” who observes but does not participate in decision making?

Or is it simply childish?



Thinker3 said:


> I can't find anything saying Jelzin agreed to NATO expansion, if you have something credible kindly share here.


Check the 1997 Foundation Act signed by Russia and NATO. It clearly states that it is up to each sovereign country to seek membership, and each NATO country has the sovereign right to accept and reject membership.
Russia ackowledges in that document that the NATO membership process is none of their business.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Thinker3 said:


> When did Putin agree to NATO Expansion? I don't think he ever did, it is not just about NATO expansion, it is about regime change in Ukraine by the west(US, UK) and bringing in puppet regime and Ultra Nationalists fascists who are anti-Russian and who committed war crimes against the Russians, then instead of diplomacy and giving respect to Russia creating war in Donbas and killing more Russians.
> The truth is that EU countries were no longer interested in NATO and Military buildup and were instead focused on socio-economic development and were getting closer to Russia, so US and probably UK also, created this conflict with Russia to achieve their multiple goals.
> 
> 
> Like I said if Iraq and Afghanistan had the kind of support Ukraine is receiving they would have defeated the US and NATO in a few months.


The ”regime change” was actually a vote in the Ukrainan Parliament after the President committed impeachable acts, and stole many billions of dollars.
The President remained so until the end of his term, and then Ukraine elected a new President according to the constitution,
Russias attack on Ukraine was started even before the President fled.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565339688163979269

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565336828902645761


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## Thinker3

Viet said:


> Here from the Nato
> The Nato/Russia agreement of May 27, 1997
> in 3 languages English, Russian and French
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nato.int


Yes, where did it say that Russia agrees to NATO expansion?


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## Thinker3

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The ”regime change” was actually a vote in the Ukrainan Parliament after the President committed impeachable acts, and stole many billions of dollars.
> The President remained so until the end of his term, and then Ukraine elected a new President according to the constitution,
> Russias attack on Ukraine was started even before the President fled.


That is not how regime change was done, the actual things happen behind the curtain, what you say happened is for common people.

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## ZeGerman

Primus said:


> Iraq did not possess any credible AT weaponry to destroy enemy tanks. All their equipment was heavily outdated and obsolete by the time it came to the first gulf War.
> 
> What is a base RpG7 supposed to do against an Abrams? Their tanks were obsolete using obsolete ammo. I mean the only credible thing they had wad their AD which shot down some 45 coalition jets down. (Total coalition losses come to 75).
> 
> You clearly didn't go into the details. You probably looked at numbers on the Wikipedia page and thought " omg muh nato so stronk"


you need to step back and read what i am actually discussing Instead of deluding yourself.



So we have a enormous force disbalance. Lousy state of iraq army. Doctrine, training.

However “thinker” here claims that just by giving half of what ukraine received…aka some 2000 anti-tank and 1000 stingers with 100 obsolete tanks and 80 modern artillery, that would have turned that entire war upside down with a coalition rout in 2 months.?!

Let alone take into account the sub-par performance arab armies often show even with superior weaponry. Ffs look at mosul vs isis.

So go ahead…dive into your details and tell us how 2000 peer antitank would have Iraq crush the coalition forces…. “Omg muh ummah so strong”. If only we had this or that…if only this didnt happen. If if if…

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## K_Bin_W

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Makes me think of a pro-verb:
> 
> It is ridiculous listening to lice coughing.


Ah there is another, "It gets one to know one" Eh!!! Now shoo and don't waste BW.

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## Vergennes

So basically in August,Russia only managed to advance something like few hundred meters from previously held positions and captured half of the village of Pisky and probably lost several BTGs in the process. @F-22Raptor

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## gambit

Thinker3 said:


> If Taliban got 1/10 of the support Ukraine is getting US would have left Afghanistan in 2 months. You don't know what you are talking about, ask some real military experts what would have happened if taliban had 1/10th of the advanced weapons Ukraine is getting, weapons like ATGM's, SAM's, Snipers etc
> Iraq was attacked two times by full power of US and its many allies, Iraq had outdated Soviet equipment, if Iraq had received even half of support Ukraine is receiving with advanced weapons and intelligence, Iraq would have beaten US or atleast defended against the invasion.


So what you are speculating is that if Iraq of Desert Storm got 30 yrs worth of technological advancement to fight the US of Desert Storm, then Desert Storm would not have been so lopsided? So in order for Desert Storm to be a 'real' war, it has to be 1991 US vs 2022 Iraq? You guys do not see how intellectually distorted that is?

When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, our F-16s just finished transition over to the C/D digital models. It is not our fault that Soviet jets were shiddy compared to US. Neither is it our fault that our people were better trained. The predictions were that US and allies *WOULD*, not merely could, incur Vietnam War era casualties. We took the Iraqi military seriously from the Iran-Iraq War and planned accordingly. I used to be on the F-111E and that jet was of the same technological time as the Iraqi Air Force. What the world's military leaderships, especially the Soviet Union and China, saw was that Desert Storm was %75 people and %25 hardware. Why do you think the PLA re-format itself to the US model?

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> So basically in August,Russia only managed to advance something like few hundred meters from previously held positions and captured half of the village of Pisky and probably lost several BTGs in the process. @F-22Raptor




Russian offensive capability has been essentially destroyed. They haven’t moved in 2 months.

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## Viet

Thinker3 said:


> Yes, where did it say that Russia agrees to NATO expansion?


It doesn’t say explicitly, it states
Page 6:

…respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and *their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security*, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents.”

Page 12:

“The member States of NATO reiterate that they have no intention, no plan and no reason to deploy nuclear weapons on the territory of *new members*, nor any need to change any aspect of NATO's nuclear posture or nuclear policy - and do not foresee any future need to do so.”

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565364577117814784

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Viet said:


> Defending Ukraine is essential for European security, very important for US security, that’s why Ukraine will get money and weapons as long as Ukraine needs it.



No one in the Europe and NATO is willing to fight the Russians by putting boots on the ground.

So the best option is to fund and support the Ukranians to fight the war with Russia.


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## jhungary

TNT said:


> Says an american who can only invade poor weak countries like Afghanistan, iraq, libya lolz and wont dare go into Ukraine. That makes america a pxssy, only good to invad poor countries but cant go against a weak russia with WW2 weapons.



lol, isn't that's what Russia is doing now?

Dude, there are always two side of an argument, if Russia is that great, why aren't they doing Ukraine in any NATO territories?? Why Russia dare not to invade NATO?

But then what do I expect you people to understand the term of "Strategic Value". Maybe I am asking too much. The only different I see here is US and Co can easily subjugate weak country like Iraq and Afghanistan, while Russia have problem subduing a pesky Ukraine......


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565372183244951552

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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> What is the proof of Jelzin signing a deal for NATO expansion?


Actually, the famous "No Expansion to the East" with James Baker was a myth, Gorbachev himself said in an interview with Russian Beyond (Own by the same company that own RT) that there was never a deal from NATO to not expand Eastward when Gorbachev himself sign the deal with NATO on East Germany.



https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html





> *RBTH: One of the key issues that has arisen in connection with the events in Ukraine is NATO expansion into the East. Do you get the feeling that your Western partners lied to you when they were developing their future plans in Eastern Europe? Why didn’t you insist that the promises made to you – particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East – be legally encoded? I will quote Baker: “NATO will not move one inch further east.”
> 
> M.G.: *The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.



As for Yeltsin sign away the deal with NATO expansion. Here are a good explanation on the issue






NATO Expansion: What Yeltsin Heard | National Security Archive


Washington, D.C., March 16, 2018 – Declassified documents from U.S. and Russian archives show that U.S. officials led Russian President Boris Yeltsin to believe in 1993 that the Partnership for Peace was the alternative to NATO expansion, rather than a precursor to it, while simultaneously...




nsarchive.gwu.edu

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## A.P. Richelieu

Thinker3 said:


> That is not how regime change was done, the actual things happen behind the curtain, what you say happened is for common people.


The actual thing happened as a vote in the parliament.


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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565364577117814784


Same ministry also claimed that all tb-2's shot downed, but

(volume up)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565372183244951552

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565346198751350784


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565348540335161345

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565383263954378752

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## RoadAmerica

K_Bin_W said:


> LOL your rebuttals are hilarious at best, Go back and comprehend the gist and then see the difference in Amreekan behavior... Putins plutonium rod is way too big for combined NATO to take on.. LOLzz...


Just stop, you’re the one without a clear argument. 
Please learn to spell, I don’t spell it Ruusiaaa


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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Iraqi air defense shot down plenty of Coalition aircraft. If they were supplied and had sufficient ammo they would have won Gulf war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coalition Fixed-Wing Attrition in Desert Storm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rjlee.org


Come on, please turn your brain on

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## Thinker3

gambit said:


> So what you are speculating is that if Iraq of Desert Storm got 30 yrs worth of technological advancement to fight the US of Desert Storm, then Desert Storm would not have been so lopsided? So in order for Desert Storm to be a 'real' war, it has to be 1991 US vs 2022 Iraq? You guys do not see how intellectually distorted that is?
> 
> When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, our F-16s just finished transition over to the C/D digital models. It is not our fault that Soviet jets were shiddy compared to US. Neither is it our fault that our people were better trained. The predictions were that US and allies *WOULD*, not merely could, incur Vietnam War era casualties. We took the Iraqi military seriously from the Iran-Iraq War and planned accordingly. I used to be on the F-111E and that jet was of the same technological time as the Iraqi Air Force. What the world's military leaderships, especially the Soviet Union and China, saw was that Desert Storm was %75 people and %25 hardware. Why do you think the PLA re-format itself to the US model?


I am taking nothing away from US military, they are indeed extremely well trained.
I did not say that in 1991 Iraqi Army had to be equipped with 2022 era weapons, I was saying that if Iraqi army at that time had the support like Ukraine is getting today they would have defended their land, the fact is that Iraqi army in 1991 or in 2003 had outdated Soviet weapons, in 1991 the Soviet weapons were very advanced and if Soviets had provided Iraq with those things would have been different, same with 2003.
This discussion started when someone was mocking Russian military that they are thought to be a mighty power but they are failing in Ukraine.



Viet said:


> It doesn’t say explicitly, it states
> Page 6:
> 
> …respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and *their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security*, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents.”
> 
> Page 12:
> 
> “The member States of NATO reiterate that they have no intention, no plan and no reason to deploy nuclear weapons on the territory of *new members*, nor any need to change any aspect of NATO's nuclear posture or nuclear policy - and do not foresee any future need to do so.”


So the US and NATO used these loopholes in the agreement, I am sure there must be some lack of communication and Russins were not able to anticipate the cunning and deception hidden in the agreement, the page 12 new members nuclear weapons, they might have thought about NATO talking about East Germany.


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## Thinker3

gambit said:


> So what you are speculating is that if Iraq of Desert Storm got 30 yrs worth of technological advancement to fight the US of Desert Storm, then Desert Storm would not have been so lopsided? So in order for Desert Storm to be a 'real' war, it has to be 1991 US vs 2022 Iraq? You guys do not see how intellectually distorted that is?
> 
> When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, our F-16s just finished transition over to the C/D digital models. It is not our fault that Soviet jets were shiddy compared to US. Neither is it our fault that our people were better trained. The predictions were that US and allies *WOULD*, not merely could, incur Vietnam War era casualties. We took the Iraqi military seriously from the Iran-Iraq War and planned accordingly. I used to be on the F-111E and that jet was of the same technological time as the Iraqi Air Force. What the world's military leaderships, especially the Soviet Union and China, saw was that Desert Storm was %75 people and %25 hardware. Why do you think the PLA re-format itself to the US model?


Soviets had pretty good military hardware in 1991 but they did not provide Iraq those weapons, eg SU 30 or new versions of mig 29 would have been a good match for f16 C/D and S300 would have been extremely deadly.

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## Viet

Thinker3 said:


> I am taking nothing away from US military, they are indeed extremely well trained.
> I did not say that in 1991 Iraqi Army had to be equipped with 2022 era weapons, I was saying that if Iraqi army at that time had the support like Ukraine is getting today they would have defended their land, the fact is that Iraqi army in 1991 or in 2003 had outdated Soviet weapons, in 1991 the Soviet weapons were very advanced and if Soviets had provided Iraq with those things would have been different, same with 2003.
> This discussion started when someone was mocking Russian military that they are thought to be a mighty power but they are failing in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> So the US and NATO used these loopholes in the agreement, I am sure there must be some lack of communication and Russins were not able to anticipate the cunning and deception hidden in the agreement, the page 12 new members nuclear weapons, they might have thought about NATO talking about East Germany.


The agreement says “new members”. East Germany is not a “new member” because part of Germany. Yes, I would say the West was clever in the formula of the agreement. the russians were probably drunken.


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## Thinker3

Viet said:


> The agreement says “new members”. East Germany is not a “new member” because part of Germany. Yes, I would say the West was clever in the formula of the agreement. the russians were probably drunken.


So finally we agree on something, so you see west was never sincere from the start with Russia, and western propaganda says that Putin was not sincere.


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## ZeGerman

Thinker3 said:


> So finally we agree on something, so you see west was never sincere from the start with Russia, and western propaganda says that Putin was not sincere.


Yes, how cunning and evil from nato to add that formerly colonised and occupied eastern europe countries could choose their own security and their sovereignity would be respected…..

Poor poor russia…..

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## Thinker3

ZeGerman said:


> Yes, how cunning and evil from nato to add that formerly colonised and occupied eastern europe countries could choose their own security and their sovereignity would be respected…..
> 
> Poor poor russia…..


Russia was not threatening or attacking anyone at that time, there was no need for NATO after Soviet Union let alone its expansion.
Even if we look 1 or 2 years ago, Russia had very good relations with European countries and both were getting socio economic benefits from eachother. But then Ukraine Issue was created, some countries did not wanted Russia and EU to get closer. Now instead of socio-economic development both EU and Russia will focus on military, which will hamper their socio-economic development.
Same with the Taiwan, the issue can easily be solved peacefully but then someone wants to create war.

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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> I am taking nothing away from US military, they are indeed extremely well trained.
> I did not say that in 1991 Iraqi Army had to be equipped with 2022 era weapons, I was saying that if Iraqi army at that time had the support like Ukraine is getting today they would have defended their land, the fact is that Iraqi army in 1991 or in 2003 had outdated Soviet weapons, in 1991 the Soviet weapons were very advanced and if Soviets had provided Iraq with those things would have been different, same with 2003.
> This discussion started when someone was mocking Russian military that they are thought to be a mighty power but they are failing in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> So the US and NATO used these loopholes in the agreement, I am sure there must be some lack of communication and Russins were not able to anticipate the cunning and deception hidden in the agreement, the page 12 new members nuclear weapons, they might have thought about NATO talking about East Germany.


The West actually did not supply Ukraine the way Soviet Union did with Iraq. In fact, if the West supply Ukraine the way SU supplied Iraq back in 1991, Russia would most likely had already been beaten back by now. 

You need to look at what the West had supplied Ukraine with vis-a-vis What Soviet Union did with Iraq. 

Western Aid in Ukraine
136 M777 Artillery System
16 HIMARS
7 M270 MLRS
~20,000 Javelin Missile System
~5000 stinger Missile System
15 Caesar Mobile Artillery
10 Pzh2000 SPG
2 NASAM System
45 M109 SPG
~250 T-72M/T-72M1
~200 BMP-1
~100 M113
50 Bushmaster AFV
70 Krabs
40 BM-21 Grad
20 Mi-8/Mi-17
80 Mastiff
40 FV-107
30 FV-104
10,000 AT-4 Launcher
5500 NLAW Launcher
40 MRAP
500 Switchblade Drone
160 Phoenix Ghost Drone
Assorted Small Arms, Drones, Helmet and etc. 

Soviet Supplies of Iraq
1000 T-72(A/M/M1)
72 Su-25
40 Mig-29
1000 BMP1
250 BMP2
1100 BM-21 Grad
300 SCUD-B
A combination of SA-2, SA-8 and SA-13.

Notice that the West did not deliver a hell lot of advance weapons to Ukraine, the most advance weapon in that list is HIMARS and Drones, MLRS and other SPG existed for more than 30 years. The West also did not supply Ukraine with Tank (Other than the 200 or so donated T-72), Aircraft and SAM. While SU supplies of Iraq are more comprehensive, it ranges from Tanks to Fighter Jets to Ballistic Missile.

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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> The West actually did not supply Ukraine the way Soviet Union did with Iraq. In fact, if the West supply Ukraine the way SU supplied Iraq back in 1991, Russia would most likely had already been beaten back by now.
> 
> You need to look at what the West had supplied Ukraine with vis-a-vis What Soviet Union did with Iraq.
> 
> Western Aid in Ukraine
> 136 M777 Artillery System
> 16 HIMARS
> 7 M270 MLRS
> ~20,000 Javelin Missile System
> ~5000 stinger Missile System
> 15 Caesar Mobile Artillery
> 10 Pzh2000 SPG
> 2 NASAM System
> 45 M109 SPG
> ~250 T-72M/T-72M1
> ~200 BMP-1
> ~100 M113
> 50 Bushmaster AFV
> 70 Krabs
> 40 BM-21 Grad
> 20 Mi-8/Mi-17
> 80 Mastiff
> 40 FV-107
> 30 FV-104
> 10,000 AT-4 Launcher
> 5500 NLAW Launcher
> 40 MRAP
> 500 Switchblade Drone
> 160 Phoenix Ghost Drone
> Assorted Small Arms, Drones, Helmet and etc.
> 
> Soviet Supplies of Iraq
> 1000 T-72(A/M/M1)
> 72 Su-25
> 40 Mig-29
> 1000 BMP1
> 250 BMP2
> 1100 BM-21 Grad
> 300 SCUD-B
> A combination of SA-2, SA-8 and SA-13.
> 
> Notice that the West did not deliver a hell lot of advance weapons to Ukraine, the most advance weapon in that list is HIMARS and Drones, MLRS and other SPG existed for more than 30 years. The West also did not supply Ukraine with Tank (Other than the 200 or so donated T-72), Aircraft and SAM. While SU supplies of Iraq are more comprehensive, it ranges from Tanks to Fighter Jets to Ballistic Missile.


First of all this military aid is not even 10% west has given Ukraine, plus add mercenaries, volunteers, training camps in border countries.
Secondly even if we compare your figures of military aid, still aid to Ukraine is much bigger.
If Iraq had 5000 Soviet latest manpads and 10000+ atgm's that can destroy Abrams imagine what would have happened.
The real damage Russia is taking and has taken is from manpads and ATGM's all other weapons don't matter much.

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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> First of all this military aid is not even 10% west has given Ukraine, plus add mercenaries, volunteers, training camps in border countries.
> Secondly even if we compare your figures of military aid, still aid to Ukraine is much bigger.
> If Iraq had 5000 Soviet latest manpads and 10000+ atgm's that can destroy Abrams imagine what would have happened.
> The real damage Russia is taking and has taken is from manpads and ATGM's all other weapons don't matter much.


This is the comprehensive list. You said it like Soviet Union were not training Iraqi back in the 90s too. 

And no way FIM-92 or Starstreak are "Latest" MANPADs. And Javelin and Pzk 3 was 80s technology. They had been supplying those to the First Afghanistan War (The one Afghan fought the Soviet Union). 

And no, Ukrainian aid was not bigger than Soviet Arms in Iraq, again, look at the number and what had sent......

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## dbc

Oh dear! another influential Russian, the Chairman of Lukoil no less "accidentally" falls out of a hospital window today.

y'all be careful when you visit a hospital.









Top Russian oil official falls to death from hospital window - sources


Ravil Maganov, the chairman of Russia's second-largest oil producer Lukoil , died on Thursday after falling from a hospital window in Moscow, two sources familiar with the situation said, becoming the latest in a series of businessmen to meet with sudden unexplained deaths.




www.reuters.com


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## Ali_Baba

U.S. Says Some Russian Units Are “Falling Back” In Kherson​








Ukraine Situation Report: U.S. Says Some Russian Units Are "Falling Back" In Kherson


The Pentagon acknowledges Ukrainian breakthroughs as a result of its offensive in the south around Kherson.




www.thedrive.com


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## HorusRa

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565383263954378752


 
Where's russian air defenses? Have they been... HARM'd?


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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> U.S. Says Some Russian Units Are “Falling Back” In Kherson​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Situation Report: U.S. Says Some Russian Units Are "Falling Back" In Kherson
> 
> 
> The Pentagon acknowledges Ukrainian breakthroughs as a result of its offensive in the south around Kherson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com


Well, they had to.

My source told me the Ukrainian had taken the first defence line.


----------



## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> The West actually did not supply Ukraine the way Soviet Union did with Iraq. In fact, if the West supply Ukraine the way SU supplied Iraq back in 1991, Russia would most likely had already been beaten back by now.
> 
> You need to look at what the West had supplied Ukraine with vis-a-vis What Soviet Union did with Iraq.
> 
> Western Aid in Ukraine
> 136 M777 Artillery System
> 16 HIMARS
> 7 M270 MLRS
> ~20,000 Javelin Missile System
> ~5000 stinger Missile System
> 15 Caesar Mobile Artillery
> 10 Pzh2000 SPG
> 2 NASAM System
> 45 M109 SPG
> ~250 T-72M/T-72M1
> ~200 BMP-1
> ~100 M113
> 50 Bushmaster AFV
> 70 Krabs
> 40 BM-21 Grad
> 20 Mi-8/Mi-17
> 80 Mastiff
> 40 FV-107
> 30 FV-104
> 10,000 AT-4 Launcher
> 5500 NLAW Launcher
> 40 MRAP
> 500 Switchblade Drone
> 160 Phoenix Ghost Drone
> Assorted Small Arms, Drones, Helmet and etc.
> 
> Soviet Supplies of Iraq
> 1000 T-72(A/M/M1)
> 72 Su-25
> 40 Mig-29
> 1000 BMP1
> 250 BMP2
> 1100 BM-21 Grad
> 300 SCUD-B
> A combination of SA-2, SA-8 and SA-13.
> 
> Notice that the West did not deliver a hell lot of advance weapons to Ukraine, the most advance weapon in that list is HIMARS and Drones, MLRS and other SPG existed for more than 30 years. The West also did not supply Ukraine with Tank (Other than the 200 or so donated T-72), Aircraft and SAM. While SU supplies of Iraq are more comprehensive, it ranges from Tanks to Fighter Jets to Ballistic Missile.


You are arguing with someone who thinks if taliban got 1/10th of what ukraine got, or iraq 1/5th of what ukraine got, that they would have crushed the coalition/USA and routed them in 2 months.


----------



## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> You are arguing with someone who thinks if taliban got 1/10th of what ukraine got, or iraq 1/5th of what ukraine got, that they would have crushed the coalition/USA and routed them in 2 months.


I think Taliban already had 1/10 of what Ukraine got. Seeing the US send the same thing they sent to Mujaheddin to Ukraine.....


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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> This is the comprehensive list. You said it like Soviet Union were not training Iraqi back in the 90s too.
> 
> And no way FIM-92 or Starstreak are "Latest" MANPADs. And Javelin and Pzk 3 was 80s technology. They had been supplying those to the First Afghanistan War (The one Afghan fought the Soviet Union).
> 
> And no, Ukrainian aid was not bigger than Soviet Arms in Iraq, again, look at the number and what had sent......


Find 92 stinger has been updated with time, same with Javelin, no way west is giving old tech, all of the weapons are advanced.


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## SIPRA

What happened to the Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson? Any latest update?


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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> I think Taliban already had 1/10 of what Ukraine got. Seeing the US send the same thing they sent to Mujaheddin to Ukraine.....


No, not true, if Taliban had lets say with 1/10 ratio 1000 Russian or Chinese Manpads that are advanced enough to beat modern Aircraft counter measures, and 2000 ATGMs also Russian or Chinese that can destroy even Abrams hypothetically speaking, what would have had happened? Unbiased opinion please.


----------



## The SC




----------



## TNT

jhungary said:


> lol, isn't that's what Russia is doing now?
> 
> Dude, there are always two side of an argument, if Russia is that great, why aren't they doing Ukraine in any NATO territories?? Why Russia dare not to invade NATO?
> 
> But then what do I expect you people to understand the term of "Strategic Value". Maybe I am asking too much. The only different I see here is US and Co can easily subjugate weak country like Iraq and Afghanistan, while Russia have problem subduing a pesky Ukraine......



I dont claim russia is great, that is done by americans only. russia is not as strong as NATO, u also claim NATO to be so powerful, so then why scared of directly intervening?

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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> Find 92 stinger has been updated with time, same with Javelin, no way west is giving old tech, all of the weapons are advanced.


What can you update with Stinger and Javelin?

Their operational principal are extremely simple. You can't update anything from that. In fact, the 2 update in 2008 and 2018 is for both to have anti-freeze battery (Both runs on battery that freeze in winter) and Warhead upgrade for the Javelin so you can hit both tank and soft target....

It's like saying LAW M7 (a 2010 derivative of M72 Law) is an advance weapon.......


----------



## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> What can you update with Stinger and Javelin?
> 
> Their operational principal are extremely simple. You can't update anything from that. In fact, the 2 update in 2008 and 2018 is for both to have anti-freeze battery (Both runs on battery that freeze in winter) and Warhead upgrade for the Javelin so you can hit both tank and soft target....
> 
> It's like saying LAW M7 (a 2010 derivative of M72 Law) is an advance weapon.......


Well I don't know the technicalities of both Stinger and Javelin, but there are many things that can be updated on both of them with time, better IR seekers, better warheads, better optics, better software, better electronics etc.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565419188650479616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565400090075955200


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## Thinker3

TNT said:


> I dont claim russia is great, that is done by americans only. russia is not as strong as NATO, u also claim NATO to be so powerful, so then why scared of directly intervening?


Nukes.


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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> No, not true, if Taliban had lets say with 1/10 ratio 1000 Russian or Chinese Manpads that are advanced enough to beat modern Aircraft counter measures, and 2000 ATGMs also Russian or Chinese that can destroy even Abrams hypothetically speaking, what would have had happened? Unbiased opinion please.


It would NOT have matter.

Bear in mind the entire Afghanistan the Allies launch over 300,000 sorties with only 10+ damage or loss, let's say Taliban have had 1000+ advance Russia or Chinese advance SAM, and let's say those kill rate are 50% (which is very generous by theway) you are looking at 3000+ damage and loss, not really enough to turn the tides.

Also US didn't use Abrams much in Afghanistan. And Armor is not at all important in the entire fight (there were around 10 Armored Brigade deployed in Afghanistan over 20 years)

It would have been the same. The fall of Taliban is a central strike in Kabul, that is what kick the Taliban out of Afghanistan, and that is done by Northern Alliance with the Help of US Special Force and ISAF Air Force. It won't stop that with 1000 advance Manpads and 2000+ advance ATGM......


----------



## The SC




----------



## jhungary

TNT said:


> I dont claim russia is great, that is done by americans only. russia is not as strong as NATO, u also claim NATO to be so powerful, so then why scared of directly intervening?


Why NATO need to directly intervene?

That's the same as why Russia needs to fight NATO directly? Even tho its Russian goal is to roll back on NATO, and you literally cannot achieve that without a direct confrontation with NATO.. 

Both sides don't want to trigger WW3 and uses proxy force to fight. Only that US and Allies defeated Russian proxy with change and Russia cannot defeat NATO proxy in Ukraine. 

Another thing other than that is merely self-soothing.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Why NATO need to directly intervene?
> 
> That's the same as why Russia needs to fight NATO directly? Even tho its Russian goal is to roll back on NATO, and you literally cannot achieve that without a direct confrontation with NATO..
> 
> Both sides don't want to trigger WW3 and uses proxy force to fight. Only that US and Allies defeated Russian proxy with change and Russia cannot defeat NATO proxy in Ukraine.
> 
> Another thing other than that is merely self-soothing.



Russia is nobody. Russia only has a tenth of China's population. Russia is a nothing but a Chinese vassal.


----------



## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> Well I don't know the technicalities of both Stinger and Javelin, but there are many things that can be updated on both of them with time, better IR seekers, better warheads, better optics, better software, better electronics etc.


What is "better IR seekers, better warheads, better optics, better software, better electronics"? 

I mean, how would you upgrade that? If you upgrade all of them, that things would not be Stinger or Javelin already, that would have been an entire new weapon system, you may call it Stinger and Javelin, but that wouldn't be the same.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565411570309644290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565347561249968130


----------



## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> It would have matter.
> 
> Bear in mind the entire Afghanistan the Allies launch over 300,000 sorties with only 10+ damage or loss, let's say Taliban have had 1000+ advance Russia or Chinese advance SAM, and let's say those kill rate are 50% (which is very generous by theway) you are looking at 3000+ damage and loss, not really enough to turn the tides.
> 
> Also US didn't use Abrams much in Afghanistan. And Armor is not at all important in the entire fight (there were arund 10 Armored Brigade deployed in Afghanistan over 20 years)
> 
> It would have been the same. The fall of Taliban is a central strike in Kabul, that is what kick the Taliban out of Afghanistan, and that is done by Northern Alliance with the Help of US Special Force and ISAF Air Force. It won't stop that with 1000 advance Manpads and 2000+ advance ATGM......


3000 damage and lost aircraft with 1 or 2 missiles from each launcher, surely they would not have only 2 missiles for each launcher, and you are saying nothing would have changed?
I just said Abrams as a hypothetical example because no other vehicle used in Afghanistan would be more armoured, that means the ATGM's would destroy all other types of vehicles.
US and Northern Alliance may had captured the cities but after that the guerilla war by Taliban with 2000 ATGM's would have caused havoc, and depending on the damage US could tolerate I gave 2 month timeline.



jhungary said:


> What is "better IR seekers, better warheads, better optics, better software, better electronics"?
> 
> I mean, how would you upgrade that? If you upgrade all of them, that things would not be Stinger or Javelin already, that would have been an entire new weapon system, you may call it Stinger and Javelin, but that wouldn't be the same.


How old are you? Everything is updated with time, f 16s is 60s tech but they are upgraded with time, the new blocks of F 16s are still top of the line, and they are still called F 16s, same with other military hardware.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565417643770789889


----------



## The SC




----------



## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> 3000 damage and loss aircraft, and you are saying nothing would have changed?
> I just said Abrams as a hypothetical example because no other vehicle used in Afghanistan would be more armoured, that means the ATGM's would destroy all other types of vehicles.
> US and Northern Alliance may had captured the cities but after that the guerilla war by Taliban with 2000 ATGM's would have caused havoc, and depending on the damage US could tolerate I gave 2 month timeline.


No. And again, that's a very generous count. In reality, if thye have had 1000 advance manpad, you probably have been taken around 100-200 damage and loss. If you look at how many Russian tank and helicopter loss versus how many Manpad and ATGM we had supplied.

The reason why is because you are talking about Air Component being a secondary role, as I said before, the reason why Taliban was kicked out is because of a surgical strike by the NA and USSCOM, even with 3000 damage or loss (Bear in mind the entire ISAF air force is about 10,000 strong) You will still have bomb dropped on location, you are not talking about a general Air War when Taliban Air Force is peer or near peer to the ISAF Airforce.

On the other hand, ATGM is only design to hit slow moving tank, try hitting a APC traveling around 60 Mile per hour instead of a 35 mph tank and you will probably be call god of ATGM if you can do that. It's one thing to have those weapon, it's another thing to know what those weapons is for.

And finally, Afghanistan is not a place you want to deploy ATGM for, it's not like Ukraine, where most of the area are build up where you can hide and maximize your range, if you have 2000 Taliban armed with ATGM, where are you going to put them? With the hilly terrain and open field, they will be sticking out like sore thumb.


----------



## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> No. And again, that's a very generous count. In reality, if thye have had 1000 advance manpad, you probably have been taken around 100-200 damage and loss. If you look at how many Russian tank and helicopter loss versus how many Manpad and ATGM we had supplied.
> 
> The reason why is because you are talking about Air Component being a secondary role, as I said before, the reason why Taliban was kicked out is because of a surgical strike by the NA and USSCOM, even with 3000 damage or loss (Bear in mind the entire ISAF air force is about 10,000 strong) You will still have bomb dropped on location, you are not talking about a general Air War when Taliban Air Force is peer or near peer to the ISAF Airforce.
> 
> On the other hand, ATGM is only design to hit slow moving tank, try hitting a APC traveling around 60 Mile per hour instead of a 35 mph tank and you will probably be call god of ATGM if you can do that. It's one thing to have those weapon, it's another thing to know what those weapons is for.
> 
> And finally, Afghanistan is not a place you want to deploy ATGM for, it's not like Ukraine, where most of the area are build up where you can hide and maximize your range, if you have 2000 Taliban armed with ATGM, where are you going to put them? With the hilly terrain and open field, they will be sticking out like sore thumb.


I completely disagree, I don't think you are much aware about Afghanistan or Taliban. And what 1000 manpads and 2000 ATGM's in their hand would do.


----------



## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> How old are you? Everything is updated with time, f 16s is 60s tech but they are upgraded with time, the new blocks of F 16s are still top of the line, and they are still called F 16s, same with other military hardware.


Dude, have I talk to you about that before?

You are comparing a $80 million platform to a Javelin/Stringer that cost less than $50,000 to produce.

F-16 produce now is not the same as F-16 back in 1970 (They weren't a 60 tech) you can have a lot of room for update, and it is cost productive.

A $50,000 a piece Javelin? How much update is cost effective? Again, I have already talked about what had Javelin had upgraded over the year. It's not like they made a new weapon out of Javelin. It would have been the same thing, because, again, the principal behind Javelin and Stinger are extremely simple, that's why Ukrainian can use them with minimal training, even if they had not used them before......



Thinker3 said:


> I completely disagree, I don't think you are much aware about Afghanistan or Taliban. And what 1000 manpads and 2000 ATGM's in their hand would do.


I fought in Afghanistan.........I know what Taliban is capable of.....What do you know about Taliban?

I mean, you can disagree all you want, if you think 1000 manpads and 2000 ATGM will change the matter, well, then you probably can't stop people laugh at you for this.....

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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Why NATO need to directly intervene?
> 
> That's the same as why Russia needs to fight NATO directly? Even tho its Russian goal is to roll back on NATO, and you literally cannot achieve that without a direct confrontation with NATO..
> 
> Both sides don't want to trigger WW3 and uses proxy force to fight. Only that US and Allies defeated Russian proxy with change and Russia cannot defeat NATO proxy in Ukraine.
> 
> Another thing other than that is merely self-soothing.



So mighty NATO not intervening to avoid WW3 is all good but if russia does the same, not directly attack NATO, that makes russia a pxssy??? 
Both russia and US have lost to proxies (afd and vietnam). US have the additional honor of losing to taliban in Afghanistan who were not supported by any major power lolz.

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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> Dude, have I talk to you before?
> 
> You are comparing a $80 million platform to a Javelin that cost less than $50,000 to produce.
> 
> F-16 produce now is not the same as F-16 back in 1970 (They weren't a 60 tech) you can have a lot of room for update and it is cost productive.
> 
> A $50,000 a piece Javelin? How much update is cost effective? Again, I have already talked about what had Javelin had upgraded over the year. It's not like they made a new weapon out of Javelin. It would have been the same thing, because, again, the principal behind Javelin and Stinger are extremely simple, that's why Ukrainian can use them with minimal training, even if they had not used them before......
> 
> 
> I fought in Afghanistan.........I know what Taliban is capable of.....What do you know about Taliban?
> 
> I mean, you can disagree all you want, if you think 1000 manpads and 2000 ATGM will change the matter, well, then you probably can't stop people laugh at you for this.....


What is wrong with your reasoning? With time new technologies become cheap, same as tech on F 16 is affordable, like wise development in other technologies that can upgrade manpads and ATGMs also become affordable.



jhungary said:


> Dude, have I talk to you about that before?
> 
> You are comparing a $80 million platform to a Javelin/Stringer that cost less than $50,000 to produce.
> 
> F-16 produce now is not the same as F-16 back in 1970 (They weren't a 60 tech) you can have a lot of room for update, and it is cost productive.
> 
> A $50,000 a piece Javelin? How much update is cost effective? Again, I have already talked about what had Javelin had upgraded over the year. It's not like they made a new weapon out of Javelin. It would have been the same thing, because, again, the principal behind Javelin and Stinger are extremely simple, that's why Ukrainian can use them with minimal training, even if they had not used them before......
> 
> 
> I fought in Afghanistan.........I know what Taliban is capable of.....What do you know about Taliban?
> 
> I mean, you can disagree all you want, if you think 1000 manpads and 2000 ATGM will change the matter, well, then you probably can't stop people laugh at you for this.....


You fought against Taliban equipped with Aks, some old Snipers and few RPGs, first tell me how was it fighting them?
Secondly imagine you going in blackhawk or Chinook and are hit by SAM out of nowhere, also imagine you sitting in humvee, or MRAP and suddenly are hit by ATGM from a mountain that goes through the armour and boom.

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## jhungary

TNT said:


> So mighty NATO not intervening to avoid WW3 is all good but if russia does the same, not directly attack NATO, that makes russia a pxssy???
> Both russia and US have lost to proxies (afd and vietnam). US have the additional honor of losing to taliban in Afghanistan who were not supported by any major power lolz.


Dude, in case you are too dumb to see, UKRAINE MEAN NOTHING TO NATO.

NATO intentionally dangle Ukraine in front of Sweden and Finland - THE COUNTRIES NATO WANTED. To teach them a lesson. See how much Russian "respect" their "Brothers" and if you don't join NATO, you are next. NATO don't care shit about Ukraine, if they do, they would have sent a more comprehensive package to Ukraine, 16 HIMARS? What can 16 HIMARS do?

And lol, you have to be stupid to compare US war in Afghanistan and Vietnam, first of all, both countries were 10,000 miles aways from US and Europe, Ukraine and Afghanistan were both next to Russia. Combat Power decrease with distant because it take longer and more resource to support a war further away from you. I would very much like to see how Russia would fare in a war outside their border not next to.

Secondly, both time US lost interest and leave, Both Vietnam and Taliban did not defeat US/NATO in military term, unless you are talking about being forced to live in a cave for 10 (in Vietnam) and 20 years (in Afghanistan) and loses over 100,000 men is "winning" in military term.



Thinker3 said:


> What is wrong with your reasoning? With time new technologies become cheap, same as tech on F 16 is affordable, like wise development in other technologies that can upgrade manpads and ATGMs also become affordable.



I am asking you, what upgrade can be perform to Manpad and ATGM?

You said better IR seekers, better warheads, better optics, better software, better electronics. That's the entire system, and if you do upgrade all of them, that thing will not be Stinger and Javelin

And finally, any kind of upgrade will only push the value up, that's why a 1970 era F-16A block 12 cost around 37 millions dollar while a 2010 F16 Block 70 cost around 85 million. Again, this may work in a multi million fighter jet, it won't work on a $50,000 missile system.....



Thinker3 said:


> You fought against Taliban equipped with Aks, some old Snipers and few RPGs, first tell me how it was fighting them?
> Secondly imagine you going in blackhawk or Chinook and are hit by SAM out of nowhere, also imagine you sitting in humvee, or MRAP and suddenly are hit by ATGM from a mountain that goes through the armour and boom.



You say that like Taliban had not shot at us with Stinger or other Manpads.......They did, and the loss are minimal.

And only moron will try to shoot a Humvee with ATGM.....It's lucky if you can hit the dust trail........And you would have been spotted by the Humvee or the Helicopter flying overhead a mile away, without scrub, vegetation or building, where are you going to hide to lay an ambush like that? Under a rock??

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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> Dude, in case you are too dumb to see, UKRAINE MEAN NOTHING TO NATO.
> 
> NATO intentionally dangle Ukraine in front of Sweden and Finland - THE COUNTRIES NATO WANTED. To teach them a lesson. See how much Russian "respect" their "Brothers" and if you don't join NATO, you are next. NATO don't care shit about Ukraine, if they do, they would have sent a more comprehensive package to Ukraine, 16 HIMARS? What can 16 HIMARS do?
> 
> And lol, you have to be stupid to compare US war in Afghanistan and Vietnam, first of all, both countries were 10,000 miles aways from US and Europe, Ukraine and Afghanistan were both next to Russia. Combat Power decrease with distant because it take longer and more resource to support a war further away from you. I would very much like to see how Russia would fare in a war outside their border not next to.
> 
> Secondly, both time US lost interest and leave, Both Vietnam and Taliban did not defeat US/NATO in military term, unless you are talking about being forced to live in a cave for 10 (in Vietnam) and 20 years (in Afghanistan) and loses over 100,000 men is "winning" in military term.
> 
> 
> 
> I am asking you, what upgrade can be perform to Manpad and ATGM?
> 
> You said better IR seekers, better warheads, better optics, better software, better electronics. That's the entire system, and if you do upgrade all of them, that thing will not be Stinger and Javelin
> 
> 
> 
> You say that like Taliban had not shot at us with Stinger or other Manpads.......They did, and the loss are minimal.
> 
> And only moron will try to shoot a Humvee with ATGM.....It's lucky if you can hit the dust trail........And you would have been spotted by the Humvee or the Helicopter flying overhead a mile away, without scrub, vegetation or building, where are you going to hide to lay an ambush like that? Under a rock??


If they had any Stinger it was outdated 70s tech, which any modern Aircraft can easily evade, same with their ATGMs, if they had any, they had old outdated ones, but mostly RPGs if you consider them to be even Atgm.
And those Humvees and MRAP will not be moving all the time, they may be stationary at times, or maybe forced to stop by some kind of ambush. 
If Taliban had something like Nlaw or AT 4 they would come close and fire at close range at some choke point, like Ukrainians are doing.


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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> If they had any Stinger it was outdated 70s tech, which any modern Aircraft can easily evade, same with their ATGMs, if they had any, they had old outdated ones, but mostly RPGs if you consider them to be even Atgm.


Well first of all, not many Russia Fighter were brought down by Ukrainian Stinger. Not even that many Helicopter did too, if you look at "Confirmed" kill only, you are talking about around 5 Su-25 and Su-30 and around 30 helicopter being brought down by Stinger.

What the Ukrainian had is what we gave to the Afghan when they fought the Russian. We can argue all day long whether or not how advance the "Advanced" stinger is. But even in Ukrainian War, it didn't do that much.



Thinker3 said:


> And those Humvees and MRAP will not be moving all the time, they may be stationary at times, or maybe forced to stop by some kind of ambush.
> If Taliban had something like Nlaw or AT 4 they would come close and fire at close range at some choke point, like Ukrainians are doing.



Sure, hit Humvee and MRAP with Javelin and NLAW. using a $50,000 system to kill a $12,000 Humvee. How many Humvee and MRAP can you kill with 2000 Nlaw and Javelin? Let's say 100% kill rate. That's 2000 Humvee or MRAP, that's 8000 men, Do you think the war is going to end if US lose 8000 men and 2000 Humvee?

I am not even going to comment on how you say you are going to use NLAW and Javelin.......That show you have no tactical sense, and I don't think you ever have to understand how to lay an ambush......


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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> Well first of all, not many Russia Fighter were brought down by Ukrainian Stinger. Not even that many Helicopter did too, if you look at "Confirmed" kill only, you are talking about around 5 Su-25 and Su-30 and around 30 helicopter being brought down by Stinger.
> 
> What the Ukrainian had is what we gave to the Afghan when they fought the Russian. We can argue all day long whether or not how advance the "Advanced" stinger is. But even in Ukrainian War, it didn't do that much.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, hit Humvee and MRAP with Javelin and NLAW. using a $50,000 system to kill a $12,000 Humvee. How many Humvee and MRAP can you kill with 2000 Nlaw and Javelin? Let's say 100% kill rate. That's 2000 Humvee or MRAP, that's 8000 men, Do you think the war is going to end if US lose 8000 men and 2000 Humvee?
> 
> I am not even going to comment on how you say you are going to use NLAW and Javelin.......That show you have no tactical sense, and I don't think you ever have to understand how to lay an ambush......


8000 men and 2000 vehicles with one missile per launcher, do you think they will have one missile per launcher?
Again I don't think you have much idea about weapon upgradation.
Chinese and Russian weapons don't cost as much as western and American ones, although they are still effective.


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## Viet

Thinker3 said:


> So finally we agree on something, so you see west was never sincere from the start with Russia, and western propaganda says that Putin was not sincere.


Politics is a dirty business. If you expect clean hands then go to hospital. Joke aside, even Nato plays dirty there is no justification for Russia invasion of Ukraine.
Ukraine is not member of the Nato and will not join the Nato anytime soon.
But now the water is shed, Ukraine wants to join the Nato, preferably tomorrow.


----------



## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> 8000 men and 2000 vehicles with one missile per launcher, do you think they will have one missile per launcher?
> Again I don't think you have much idea about weapon upgradation.
> Chinese and Russian weapons don't cost as much as western and American ones, although they are still effective.



You do know portable ATGM are one missile per launcher, and I am giving you 100% kill rate. which in reality would never had happened........

And you probably have no idea how weapon works. It's like saying M4 are better than M16 because it is the upgrade version of M16......It's not how much to upgrade those weapons, it's why. If you are talking about a $50,000 system, you are A LOT BETTER OFF to make a new system then upgrade the existing one. It's not a fighter jet that cost you multi million dollars to make where you need to maintain the production line as long as possible, so they cost as little as possible.

Upgrading in any sense a FIM-92 and Javelin is dumb. Because they are simple platform, you would be better off making a new system than to upgrade the existing one. Upgrading those system are usually limited to patching problems. Not increase its capability......


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## Thinker3

Viet said:


> Politics is a dirty business. If you expect clean hands then go to hospital. Joke aside, even Nato plays dirty there is no justification for Russia invasion of Ukraine.
> Ukraine is not member of the Nato m, and will not join the Nato anytime soon.


Ukraine had pro Russia Government, which was violently overthrown and a ultra Nationalist anti Russia movement came into existence which killed many Russians in Ukraine, even as of today people that speak Russian in Ukraine face violence. Also the regime change resulted in many Ukrainians siding with Russia like those in donbass, and Ukrainian military started a war with them, naturally Russia would back their supporters, west backed Ukranian army and ultra Nationalists and things escalated and here we are today.



jhungary said:


> You do know portable ATGM are one missile per launcher, and I am giving you 100% kill rate. which in reality would never had happened........
> 
> And you probably have no idea how weapon works. It's like saying M4 are better than M16 because it is the upgrade version of M16......It's not how much to upgrade those weapons, it's why. If you are talking about a $50,000 system, you are A LOT BETTER OFF to make a new system then upgrade the existing one. It's not a fighter jet that cost you multi million dollars to make where you need to maintain the production line as long as possible, so they cost as little as possible.
> 
> Upgrading in any sense a FIM-92 and Javelin is dumb. Because they are simple platform, you would be better off making a new system than to upgrade the existing one. Upgrading those system are usually limited to patching problems. Not increase its capability......


I am done arguing with you, I don't mean to offend you but you have no idea about weapon upgrades, ask other more knowledgeable people here the question about weapon upgrade, they will tell you as you are not listening to me and not all ATGMs are portable single use, many are multiple use.








FIM-92 Stinger - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org




You can check different variants of Stinger that have been upgrades over time in this on Wikipedia.


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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> I am done arguing with you, I don't mean to offend you but you have no idea about weapon upgrades, ask other more knowledgeable people here the question about weapon upgrade, they will tell you as you are not listening to me



I know what weapon upgrade means, you on the other hand, probably don't know, as evidence that you use a fighter jet as an example for upgrade and failed to realise the different between a fighter jet and small arms.



Thinker3 said:


> and not all ATGMs are portable single use, many are multiple use.


But we are talking about Javelin or NLAW, which is a single use Portable Weapon system. We are not talking about TOW (which could have 4 launcher) or any Multiple Use Rocket. Those are not the weapon the West supplying Ukraine with. If you want to talk about multiple use rocket launcher, that's another topic.


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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Dude, in case you are too dumb to see, UKRAINE MEAN NOTHING TO NATO.
> 
> NATO intentionally dangle Ukraine in front of Sweden and Finland - THE COUNTRIES NATO WANTED. To teach them a lesson. See how much Russian "respect" their "Brothers" and if you don't join NATO, you are next. NATO don't care shit about Ukraine, if they do, they would have sent a more comprehensive package to Ukraine, 16 HIMARS? What can 16 HIMARS do?
> 
> And lol, you have to be stupid to compare US war in Afghanistan and Vietnam, first of all, both countries were 10,000 miles aways from US and Europe, Ukraine and Afghanistan were both next to Russia. Combat Power decrease with distant because it take longer and more resource to support a war further away from you. I would very much like to see how Russia would fare in a war outside their border not next to.
> 
> Secondly, both time US lost interest and leave, Both Vietnam and Taliban did not defeat US/NATO in military term, unless you are talking about being forced to live in a cave for 10 (in Vietnam) and 20 years (in Afghanistan) and loses over 100,000 men is "winning" in military term.
> 
> 
> 
> I am asking you, what upgrade can be perform to Manpad and ATGM?
> 
> You said better IR seekers, better warheads, better optics, better software, better electronics. That's the entire system, and if you do upgrade all of them, that thing will not be Stinger and Javelin
> 
> And finally, any kind of upgrade will only push the value up, that's why a 1970 era F-16A block 12 cost around 37 millions dollar while a 2010 F16 Block 70 cost around 85 million. Again, this may work in a multi million fighter jet, it won't work on a $50,000 missile system.....
> 
> 
> 
> You say that like Taliban had not shot at us with Stinger or other Manpads.......They did, and the loss are minimal.
> 
> And only moron will try to shoot a Humvee with ATGM.....It's lucky if you can hit the dust trail........And you would have been spotted by the Humvee or the Helicopter flying overhead a mile away, without scrub, vegetation or building, where are you going to hide to lay an ambush like that? Under a rock??



Lolz all that cheerleading for Ukraine and now u endup with NATO doesnt give a shit? 😂 So basically u accept what russia is saying that NATO is only using ukraine against russia. You confirm that NATO is a war mongering alliance destroying world peace. It didn't take much to make u expose ur ugly face.

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## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> You do know portable ATGM are one missile per launcher, and I am giving you 100% kill rate. which in reality would never had happened........


Dont just hand him theoretical 100% kill rate. 

To get such teams into position, succesfully hit the target, and survive the whole encounter is no small feat. 
Especially against overwhelming force with better training and intelligence. 

We literally spent billions and 20 years arming and training ANA and look at their combat performance. Though the taliban were somewhat better fighters (motivation counts alot), lets not pretend they did not suffer from lack of training, doctrine, combined arms, and professionalism. 
a reason they lost all military conventional encounters against coalition. 

“Give those supersoldiers 1000 stingers and 3000 javelins and the USA would be beaten in 2 months!”


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## MeFishToo

SIPRA said:


> What happened to the Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson? Any latest update?


Source (War in Ukraine)





At the center the ukrainian bridgehead is expanding and the ukrainians were being stopped by a regiment from 98 airborne from reaching mainroad leading towards Nova Kakhovka dam.







In the north the ukrainians have partly encircled the 45 Special forces brigade, while a russian regiment from 98 airborne is trying to relieve them.








All in all, Russia is in trouble. The airborne divisions and special forces brigade have their hands full. If Ukraine breaks those units, the Kherson area is a mess.
7. airborne division is trying to hold the lines in the southern part.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565460304401670152
Huge launch of HIMARS rockets

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565457835336646656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565429004940853248


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565473920542810118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565473957892980739

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565467318154567688


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, that would have been an escalation, there are a lot going on already, Ukrainian Ops in Crimea, Occupied Ukraine and Russia, those ops have enough psychological effect on Russian morale already, unless Russia escalate (either mobilise or use nuke) I don't see any escalation on Ukrainian ends.
> 
> What Ukrainian needed now is conventional firepower, tanks, artillery and aircraft, you need that to pull a counter offensive. Drones are a must have, with HARM now into the fray, it will most definitely pushes Russian Air Defence system further out, it blind your enemy and let you expand your area of operation.


Escalation? What would the Russians do? Fire battleship size shells at the Ukrainians? Shoot humongous mortar rounds? Use thermobaric rockets on them? Fire Grad rockets and cluster munitions? Fire white phosphorus on them? All been done to dislodge the Ukrainians in trenches. Air burst GLMRS is the best way in response to go against dug in Russian troops in the trenches to push them back. Not to mention Russians using the new hardened small bunkers they are bringing in. Can use regular GLMRS to accurately hit and punch through those easily. We've seen them do it. Even hit deep fox holes as well. 

Also not to mention what you said before where the Ukrainians have hit the Russians hard in Crimea and even on Russian soil already along with using HIMARS and M240s to hit Russian ammo depots and command and control and barracks resulting heavy casualties. So providing airburst GLMRS is like not going to push beyond that.


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> What Ukrainian needed now is conventional firepower, tanks, artillery and aircraft, you need that to pull a counter offensive. Drones are a must have, with HARM now into the fray, it will most definitely pushes Russian Air Defence system further out, it blind your enemy and let you expand your area of operation.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565429362459017221
Been noticing the uptick of TB2s being used. HARMS are definitely helping to suppress them. Ukrainians should another hundred of them for Ukraine's version of ground attack air force and 5 million apiece, that's cheap. Who knows, maybe A10s could be delivered and sent in as long as Russian air defense is being suppressed in conjunction with SEAD fighter planes.



dBSPL said:


> Same ministry also claimed that all tb-2's shot downed, but
> 
> (volume up)
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565372183244951552


Ukraine needs another 100. Considering the Russian air defense is being suppressed. Also Tb2s, should have longer range missiles to counter short and medium range platforms.


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## Oldman1

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565364577117814784


Since Ukrainians have been using decoys, its not surprising the Russians claim that many kills.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565562142845280257


Oldman1 said:


> Also Tb2s, should have longer range missiles to counter short and medium range platforms.



TB2 is a pretty small drone. Doubt it can carry large long range missiles. It's only the size of Mohajer 6, Searcher II.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> A nation's prosperity depends on the discipline of its population. A disciplined nation is prosperous. A not disciplined nation is not prosperous.


Just population doesn't cut it. I agree that you need the right population. But you need the right policies from the Government and then the right eco-system outside the country to power the growth.

Iran is a disciplined population but with now ecosystem and sanctioned since 2010 has had a declining GDP.

China had the same disciplined population in the 70s it did in the 2000s. Aliens didn't land in China. But it wasn't till it opened up for foreign investment till it opened. The sanctions in 1989 were cosmetic it best. It was nothing ike what Russia is getting now.

Foreign investment in China went from $3BN in 1990 to $35BN in 5 YEARS! and $43BN after. So the innovation definitely occurred but not under duress of supreme sanctions


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Just population doesn't cut it. I agree that you need the right population. But you need the right policies from the Government and then the right eco-system outside the country to power the growth.
> 
> Iran is a disciplined population but with now ecosystem and sanctioned since 2010 has had a declining GDP.
> 
> China had the same disciplined population in the 70s it did in the 2000s. Aliens didn't land in China. But it wasn't till it opened up for foreign investment till it opened. The sanctions in 1989 were cosmetic it best. It was nothing ike what Russia is getting now.
> 
> Foreign investment in China went from $3BN in 1990 to $35BN in 5 YEARS! and $43BN after. So the innovation definitely occurred but not under duress of supreme sanctions



Perhaps. But fact remains China remains America's largest threat. Russia is nobody compared to China. Not in terms of population. Not in terms of military. And certainly not in terms of industry and production.

If Westerners invest in China. I guarantee you it has nothing to do with benevolence. If Westerners invest in China to exploit cheap labor. Okay. But do not tell me it was done out of kindness of heart. Because for certain it is not.


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## aviator_fan

Thinker3 said:


> What do you have to say about the US who invaded Afghanistan with NATO counties and the whole world's support? against people with Ak's and still lost, and again invaded Iraq with Britian, Australia, and others, compared to that Russia is fighting Ukraine which is fully backed by the EU, Britain, and the US with an unlimited supply of advanced arms and ammunition and mercenaries and volunteers from different western countries.
> If Iraq or Afghanistan had such support US would have been defeated in a month or two.


Come on Thinker. Just because I said Putin took Russia down a path of accelerated decline does not mean I said the invasions were a great idea or that there is a moral high ground that US or NATO have. I didn't plan the invasions nor did i say they were about some stupid term like 'democracy'. It was neo-cons dumb idea about redrawing the map.

But since you talked about 'much support': Iraq had unparalleled support from USSR in its war with Iran. Iran was all sanctioned up and only 15% of its Tomcat fleet was operational.

Iraq lost all the way up to Mig-25s in combat. And did not win the war. They could not win air or ground war against an army that was sanctioned and you think Desert Storm against a dozen nations would have been different?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Perhaps. But fact remains China remains America's largest threat. Russia is nobody compared to China. Not in terms of population. Not in terms of military. And certainly not in terms of industry and production.
> 
> If Westerners invest in China. I guarantee you it has nothing to do with benevolence. If Westerners invest in China to exploit cheap labor. Okay. But do not tell me it was done out of kindness of heart. Because for certain it is not.


I never said that by me stating facts was indicative that China was weak or I don't like China. And I agree with you that China is a threat. Russia was not and was a 'has been'. Also, Foreign Investment volumes had nothing to do with kindness , nor did I say it. It was simple capitalism and motivation for profits. Make things cheaper. It benefited both. China would have still been a great country without but not as modernized. Western ecnonomies got mass manufacturing at scale and China took 100s of millions out of poverty.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> I never said that by me stating facts was indicative that China was weak or I don't like China. And I agree with you that China is a threat. Russia was not and was a 'has been'. Also, Foreign Investment volumes had nothing to do with kindness , nor did I say it. It was simple capitalism and motivation for profits. Make things cheaper. It benefited both. China would have still been a great country without but not as modernized. Western ecnonomies got mass manufacturing at scale and China took 100s of millions out of poverty.



China is a threat. National security trumps profit. The US banned chip sale to China because China is a threat. 






U.S. Restricts Sales of Sophisticated Chips to China and Russia


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/technology/gpu-chips-china-russia.html Limits were placed on high-end GPUs that power supercomputers and artificial intelligence, said Nvidia and AMD, two Silicon Valley chip makers. The Biden administration has imposed new restrictions on sales of some...



defence.pk


----------



## Viet

Thinker3 said:


> Ukraine had pro Russia Government, which was violently overthrown and a ultra Nationalist anti Russia movement came into existence which killed many Russians in Ukraine, even as of today people that speak Russian in Ukraine face violence. Also the regime change resulted in many Ukrainians siding with Russia like those in donbass, and Ukrainian military started a war with them, naturally Russia would back their supporters, west backed Ukranian army and ultra Nationalists and things escalated and here we are today.
> 
> 
> I am done arguing with you, I don't mean to offend you but you have no idea about weapon upgrades, ask other more knowledgeable people here the question about weapon upgrade, they will tell you as you are not listening to me and not all ATGMs are portable single use, many are multiple use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FIM-92 Stinger - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can check different variants of Stinger that have been upgrades over time in this on Wikipedia.


Again, to clear misunderstanding
there are no Russians in Ukraine you mean Ukraine speaking Russian language. They are Russian settlers. Immigrants or now separatists. Ukraine and Russian are mutually understandable according to Ukraine refugees here in Germany. Before the war Ukraine is traditionally divided the western part who leans on the EU, and the East who looks at Russia.

The maidan upprising was provoked by the refusal of Yanukovych gov joining the EU. hr rejected the EU bid despite the approval of Ukraine parliament and majority of Ukraine population. Yanukovych was ousted a d fled. He was later charged by high treason because he called on Russia for invasion.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Dont just hand him theoretical 100% kill rate.
> 
> To get such teams into position, succesfully hit the target, and survive the whole encounter is no small feat.
> Especially against overwhelming force with better training and intelligence.
> 
> We literally spent billions and 20 years arming and training ANA and look at their combat performance. Though the taliban were somewhat better fighters (motivation counts alot), lets not pretend they did not suffer from lack of training, doctrine, combined arms, and professionalism.
> a reason they lost all military conventional encounters against coalition.
> 
> “Give those supersoldiers 1000 stingers and 3000 javelins and the USA would be beaten in 2 months!”


Well, I was trying to be generous, in reality, if we look at how Ukrainian uses their missile, the success rate is around 15-18% Bear in mind the US and EU supplied around 20000 over AT missile of all sorts which killed around 40% of Russian Armor (Which is around 1600) Then you have similar number of damage....

The thing is, Afghanistan and Iraq is NOT an ATGM country, it's wide open and hot, which mean any nation with a proper ISTAR asset would pick your team up like a hot rock in 5 minutes. There are nowhere to hide both within the geographical feature and thermos feature, Taliban having ATGM, or Stinger would have low to no effect on ISAF troop. That is something he don't know.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Again, to clear misunderstanding
> there are no Russians in Ukraine you mean Ukraine speaking Russian language. They are Russian settlers. Immigrants or now separatists. Ukraine and Russian are mutually understandable according to Ukraine refugees here in Germany. Before the war Ukraine is traditionally divided the western part who leans on the EU, and the East who looks at Russia.
> 
> The maidan upprising was provoked by the refusal of Yanukovych gov joining the EU. hr rejected the EU bid despite the approval of Ukraine parliament and majority of Ukraine population. Yanukovych was ousted a d fled. He was later charged by high treason because he called on Russia for invasion.



The president has the right to not join EU. Now Ukrainians will pay with the first forever war in human history. Is it worth it? Ukraine will never join EU anyway.


----------



## gambit

Thinker3 said:


> I am taking nothing away from US military, they are indeed extremely well trained.


Well trained? I will give you an advice I received from a Msgt many yrs ago: In a fight, you win not by fighting under your opponent's rules but by forcing him to fight under yours, and cheating is allowed.

Take range, for example...

If you have longer reach, then fight from a distance. It mean if you have better radar that can detect a longer range, then shoot first. If you can air refuel, then put your basing back further from the front line. In both situations, longer reach put you at an advantage and the enemy at a disadvantage. Longer reach or range is a rule and you just force your opponent to fight under your rule. Your ability to see far and fly far prevent the enemy from putting you under his rules.

What happened in Desert Storm, at least from an airpower perspective, was that we knew our air hardware better than the Iraqis knew theirs. Do you understand? Am not talking about knowing the technical ins-and-outs but how to use them in as many scenarios as we could dream up in peacetime, so that if the enemy air force do something maybe we have a response for that maneuver or tactic. We know what we can do better than the Iraqis know what they can do. That advantage is what truly killed the Iraqi military.



Thinker3 said:


> I did not say that in 1991 Iraqi Army had to be equipped with 2022 era weapons, I was saying that if Iraqi army at that time had the support like Ukraine is getting today they would have defended their land, the fact is that Iraqi army in 1991 or in 2003 had outdated Soviet weapons, *in 1991 the Soviet weapons were very advanced and if Soviets had provided Iraq with those things would have been different*, same with 2003.


Not really. It has been known since the Cold War that the US and allies hold the qualitative edge while the Soviets had the quantitative edge. My first jet was the F-111E at RAF Upper Heyford. The slightly more advanced F-111F was at RAF Lakenheath. During the Cold War yrs, the US had Soviet EE Adolf Tolkachev working for US. Tolkachev passed technical information on many Soviet radars and air defense systems. In every arms negotiation, the Soviets always demanded we removed the F-111s and we always refused but not knowing why they keep demanding. Then from Tolkachev, it turned out that the Soviets had no credible defense against the F-111s flying out of the UK, and the F-111 was 1960s technology.



https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/08/adolf-tolkachev-cia-kgb/400769/



In the early 1970s, *Soviet airborne radars could not spot moving objects close to the ground, meaning they could fail to detect a terrain-hugging bomber or cruise missile.* This vulnerability became a major design challenge for Tolkachev and the engineers he worked with; they were pressed to build radars that could “look down” from above and identify low-flying objects moving against the background of the earth. The United States was planning to use low-flying, penetrating bombers to attack the Soviet Union in the event of any war. *Tolkachev had joined the Scientific Research Institute for Radio Engineering, later known as Phazotron,* in the 1950s as it was expanding into research and development of military radars, which grew in sophistication from simple sighting devices to complex aviation and weapons-guidance systems. *It was the only place he had ever worked.*​
The Iraqi military was Soviet equipped. Sending more weapons that are technologically beyond the rifle or the tank would not have helped the Iraqi military. We had the qualitative edge and there was only so much the Iraqi soldiers could handle from the Soviets. More hardware does not mean more troops to operate. If a squadron have 20 pilots, sending 100 jets does nothing. You cannot train a pilot in a few weeks. Once we shut down Iraqi border radars, the war was on the down slope towards the victory for US.



Thinker3 said:


> This discussion started when someone was mocking Russian military that they are thought to be a mighty power but they are failing in Ukraine.


Am US Air Force. At the two months mark of this war, I asked 'Where was the VKS?' Now, I say the Russian Air Force is a shiddy air force. That is not mockery but a judgement. And it is clear that without a credible air force, the Russian Army is floundering. It is as if the Russian military barely moved since Desert Storm.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Well, I was trying to be generous, in reality, if we look at how Ukrainian uses their missile, the success rate is around 15-18% Bear in mind the US and EU supplied around 20000 over AT missile of all sorts which killed around 40% of Russian Armor (Which is around 1600) Then you have similar number of damage....
> 
> The thing is, Afghanistan and Iraq is NOT an ATGM country, it's wide open and hot, which mean any nation with a proper ISTAR asset would pick your team up like a hot rock in 5 minutes. There are nowhere to hide both within the geographical feature and thermos feature, Taliban having ATGM, or Stinger would have low to no effect on ISAF troop. That is something he don't know.



America is not the only country that has anti tank missiles. Russia has these things too.


----------



## jhungary

TNT said:


> Lolz all that cheerleading for Ukraine and now u endup with NATO doesnt give a shit? 😂 So basically u accept what russia is saying that NATO is only using ukraine against russia. You confirm that NATO is a war mongering alliance destroying world peace. It didn't take much to make u expose ur ugly face.


Dude, if NATO really do give a shit, they would have send in a lot more than what they had sent now. Thats what I have always been saying, and many military analyst had also been saying from Day 1 and what Zelenskyy himself have been saying from Day 1.

Look at how much weapon NATO is storing at the moment? And what had been giving to Ukraine? 

Germany have 100 Leopard 2 stored (Of the 290 L2 they only uses 188) and about 300 Marauder and Puma stored up, How many of those are given to Ukraine? None

UK had 60 Challenger 2 and 200 Warrior Light Tank stored up since they get rid of those territorial unit. How many of those are given to Ukraine? None

France have 180 Leclerc and 250 AMX 30 AuF 155 SPG stored. How many of those are given to Ukraine? None

US have whooping 450 M1 Abrams since the USMC given up their Armor Regiment, and 250 M270 MLRS from switching to HIMARS, and then around 700 stored M109 and the entire M198 stock (roughly 400) stored in National Guards depot gathering dust. How many of those are sending to Ukraine? None. And they had passed the 40 billion aid package, with President have the right to transfer existing stock to Ukraine, yet NONE of that are transferred. 

Bulgaria have 1000 T-72/BMP1/BMP2 stored, how many of those went to Ukraine? 40 T-72....

Poland is probably the leader in this aid package, Of the 1000 T-72 Poland stored, they had transferred 242 to Ukraine. 

If NATO really want Ukraine to defeat the Russian, try sending 10% of this list to Ukraine, 10% of the excess article would most likely turn the tide for Ukraine, yet, they are rather this equipment gather dust in depot than put it to Ukrainian Frontline. Don't get me started with Fighter Jet and Bomber. 

Only dumbass would think NATO had done even remotely enough to try to help Ukraine.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Germany have 100 Leopard 2 stored (Of the 290 L2 they only uses 188) and about 300 Marauder and Puma stored up, How many of those are given to Ukraine? None



They are worried the tanks would be captured. These are short range weapons. Once captured, Russians would gain knowledge of its classified armor.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Escalation? What would the Russians do? Fire battleship size shells at the Ukrainians? Shoot humongous mortar rounds? Use thermobaric rockets on them? Fire Grad rockets and cluster munitions? Fire white phosphorus on them? All been done to dislodge the Ukrainians in trenches. Air burst GLMRS is the best way in response to go against dug in Russian troops in the trenches to push them back. Not to mention Russians using the new hardened small bunkers they are bringing in. Can use regular GLMRS to accurately hit and punch through those easily. We've seen them do it. Even hit deep fox holes as well.
> 
> Also not to mention what you said before where the Ukrainians have hit the Russians hard in Crimea and even on Russian soil already along with using HIMARS and M240s to hit Russian ammo depots and command and control and barracks resulting heavy casualties. So providing airburst GLMRS is like not going to push beyond that.


Well, by escalation I mean Russia started general mobilisation or started to go crazy and bomb forbidden target (like the nuke plant and civilian corridor) 

NATO and the west is trying to limit the conflict to as small as possible, you can't give Russia excuse to start mobilising, Putin is afraid to take this to the next level, that's why he refused to call this war a "war" and call it "special military operation" that's because he knows if he call this a war, and then start mobilising the population for an foreign incursion, they will get rid of him quicker than getting rid of Ned Stark in Game of Throne.......But if US start supplying shotgun munition or airburst munition, and starting wholesale slaughter of Russian soldier. This is going to swing the Russian in Putin Favor and that give him the legitimacy to expand the war. 

That's the Balance of NATO, they can't be humiliating Russia that much like Marcon said (I did not agree with him with most of the issue but this one I agree with him) You need to humiliate Putin, yes, but if you go too far, that will rile up the Russian population.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Dude, if NATO really do give a shit, they would have send in a lot more than what they had sent now. Thats what I have always been saying, and many military analyst had also been saying from Day 1 and what Zelenskyy himself have been saying from Day 1.
> 
> Look at how much weapon NATO is storing at the moment? And what had been giving to Ukraine?
> 
> Germany have 100 Leopard 2 stored (Of the 290 L2 they only uses 188) and about 300 Marauder and Puma stored up, How many of those are given to Ukraine? None
> 
> UK had 60 Challenger 2 and 200 Warrior Light Tank stored up since they get rid of those territorial unit. How many of those are given to Ukraine? None
> 
> France have 180 Leclerc and 250 AMX 30 AuF 155 SPG stored. How many of those are given to Ukraine? None
> 
> US have whooping 450 M1 Abrams since the USMC given up their Armor Regiment, and 250 M270 MLRS from switching to HIMARS, and then around 700 stored M109 and the entire M198 stock (roughly 400) stored in National Guards depot gathering dust. How many of those are sending to Ukraine? None. And they had passed the 40 billion aid package, with President have the right to transfer existing stock to Ukraine, yet NONE of that are transferred.
> 
> Bulgaria have 1000 T-72/BMP1/BMP2 stored, how many of those went to Ukraine? 40 T-72....
> 
> Poland is probably the leader in this aid package, Of the 1000 T-72 Poland stored, they had transferred 242 to Ukraine.
> 
> If NATO really want Ukraine to defeat the Russian, try sending 10% of this list to Ukraine, 10% of the excess article would most likely turn the tide for Ukraine, yet, they are rather this equipment gather dust in depot than put it to Ukrainian Frontline. Don't get me started with Fighter Jet and Bomber.
> 
> Only dumbass would think NATO had done even remotely enough to try to help Ukraine.



They gave all the tanks they can give that work. Just because they have thousands of tanks stored doesn't mean all of them are in working condition.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565429362459017221
> Been noticing the uptick of TB2s being used. HARMS are definitely helping to suppress them. Ukrainians should another hundred of them for Ukraine's version of ground attack air force and 5 million apiece, that's cheap. Who knows, maybe A10s could be delivered and sent in as long as Russian air defense is being suppressed in conjunction with SEAD fighter planes.
> 
> 
> Ukraine needs another 100. Considering the Russian air defense is being suppressed. Also Tb2s, should have longer range missiles to counter short and medium range platforms.


That how modern day SEAD was done. It's not hard to understand the Ukrainian has been using their drone as a bait to draw out the Russian radar, and when they turn on and try to target the drone, they have Mig-29 armed with HARM and shoot that radar site at a standoff range. I suspect the Russian had lost several radar equipment to this tactic before we knew HARM was in use, notice how the Russian didn't even bother to try and intercept those drones and HIMARS rocket? That tell me they had lost a few systems and not going to be fool to turn them on again. Either way the function of those SEAD mission has completed, now the Russian won't know if they are going to be facing an incoming HARM when they turn on those radar.

Russia needs to step up their game, the only way I can see it turn this tide is to use RuAF, which have largely been an undeciding factor of this war. They will need to use it to fly CAP or Russia could lose air superiority to Ukraine......



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> They gave all the tanks they can give that work. Just because they have thousands of tanks stored doesn't mean all of them are in working condition.


I am not talking about deep storage, all those tanks i mentioned just pull off the line, I don't know how much you know about tanks. I used to drive one, you don't need 6 months to restore a tank just come off the line. In fact, you can restore a tank that had not been used for 5 years in a month time.

If we counted those stored for a long time, then US would have roughly 1500+ Abrams in long term storage. Getting them all online would take less than a year.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> I am not talking about deep storage, all those tanks i mentioned just pull off the line, I don't know how much you know about tanks. I used to drive one, you don't need 6 months to restore a tank just come off the line. In fact, you can restore a tank that had not been used for 5 years in a month time.
> 
> If we counted those stored for a long time, then US would have roughly 1500+ Abrams in long term storage. Getting them all online would take less than a year.



Sure. But do you think America can out supply China? I don't think so. America may be able to supply 1500 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, but guess what? China can supply 10 times as many anti tank missiles to Russia. It will be America that loses the war.


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## jhungary

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Sure. But do you think America can out supply China? I don't think so. America may be able to supply 1500 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, but guess what? China can supply 10 times as many anti tank missiles to Russia. It will be America that loses the war.


please do not ever quote me again.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The president has the right to not join EU. Now Ukrainians will pay with the first forever war in human history. Is it worth it? Ukraine will never join EU anyway.


Nonsense
Ukraine is a parliamentary democracy. Like 99 percent of western style democracies. Means the legislative or parliament makes laws, the executive branch or government does it. The president is not the law making body. He is not above the laws. He may delay however can’t reject the decisions made by parliament.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565406996253261825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565448455438336000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565467422156546054

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565603668124225536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565541823879303168


----------



## Thinker3

gambit said:


> Well trained? I will give you an advice I received from a Msgt many yrs ago: In a fight, you win not by fighting under your opponent's rules but by forcing him to fight under yours, and cheating is allowed.
> 
> Take range, for example...
> 
> If you have longer reach, then fight from a distance. It mean if you have better radar that can detect a longer range, then shoot first. If you can air refuel, then put your basing back further from the front line. In both situations, longer reach put you at an advantage and the enemy at a disadvantage. Longer reach or range is a rule and you just force your opponent to fight under your rule. Your ability to see far and fly far prevent the enemy from putting you under his rules.
> 
> What happened in Desert Storm, at least from an airpower perspective, was that we knew our air hardware better than the Iraqis knew theirs. Do you understand? Am not talking about knowing the technical ins-and-outs but how to use them in as many scenarios as we could dream up in peacetime, so that if the enemy air force do something maybe we have a response for that maneuver or tactic. We know what we can do better than the Iraqis know what they can do. That advantage is what truly killed the Iraqi military.
> 
> 
> Not really. It has been known since the Cold War that the US and allies hold the qualitative edge while the Soviets had the quantitative edge. My first jet was the F-111E at RAF Upper Heyford. The slightly more advanced F-111F was at RAF Lakenheath. During the Cold War yrs, the US had Soviet EE Adolf Tolkachev working for US. Tolkachev passed technical information on many Soviet radars and air defense systems. In every arms negotiation, the Soviets always demanded we removed the F-111s and we always refused but not knowing why they keep demanding. Then from Tolkachev, it turned out that the Soviets had no credible defense against the F-111s flying out of the UK, and the F-111 was 1960s technology.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/08/adolf-tolkachev-cia-kgb/400769/
> 
> 
> 
> In the early 1970s, *Soviet airborne radars could not spot moving objects close to the ground, meaning they could fail to detect a terrain-hugging bomber or cruise missile.* This vulnerability became a major design challenge for Tolkachev and the engineers he worked with; they were pressed to build radars that could “look down” from above and identify low-flying objects moving against the background of the earth. The United States was planning to use low-flying, penetrating bombers to attack the Soviet Union in the event of any war. *Tolkachev had joined the Scientific Research Institute for Radio Engineering, later known as Phazotron,* in the 1950s as it was expanding into research and development of military radars, which grew in sophistication from simple sighting devices to complex aviation and weapons-guidance systems. *It was the only place he had ever worked.*​
> The Iraqi military was Soviet equipped. Sending more weapons that are technologically beyond the rifle or the tank would not have helped the Iraqi military. We had the qualitative edge and there was only so much the Iraqi soldiers could handle from the Soviets. More hardware does not mean more troops to operate. If a squadron have 20 pilots, sending 100 jets does nothing. You cannot train a pilot in a few weeks. Once we shut down Iraqi border radars, the war was on the down slope towards the victory for US.
> 
> 
> Am US Air Force. At the two months mark of this war, I asked 'Where was the VKS?' Now, I say the Russian Air Force is a shiddy air force. That is not mockery but a judgement. And it is clear that without a credible air force, the Russian Army is floundering. It is as if the Russian military barely moved since Desert Storm.


You have right to your opinion and as you are a veteran I respect that, but when it comes to Iraq I am not talking about just airforce perspective, no way Iraqi Airforce could take on US Airforce, like I said US military is extremely well trained, if you look at it Ukrainian Airforce is also completely destroyed by Russia, and in the first few days Russian Airforce gained complete Air supremacy, but Russia is taking damage from Manpads and ATGM's, so if Iraq had good Soviet Manpads, ATGMs and SAMs things would have been much different.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565622230591086592


----------



## TNT

jhungary said:


> Dude, if NATO really do give a shit, they would have send in a lot more than what they had sent now. Thats what I have always been saying, and many military analyst had also been saying from Day 1 and what Zelenskyy himself have been saying from Day 1.
> 
> Look at how much weapon NATO is storing at the moment? And what had been giving to Ukraine?
> 
> Germany have 100 Leopard 2 stored (Of the 290 L2 they only uses 188) and about 300 Marauder and Puma stored up, How many of those are given to Ukraine? None
> 
> UK had 60 Challenger 2 and 200 Warrior Light Tank stored up since they get rid of those territorial unit. How many of those are given to Ukraine? None
> 
> France have 180 Leclerc and 250 AMX 30 AuF 155 SPG stored. How many of those are given to Ukraine? None
> 
> US have whooping 450 M1 Abrams since the USMC given up their Armor Regiment, and 250 M270 MLRS from switching to HIMARS, and then around 700 stored M109 and the entire M198 stock (roughly 400) stored in National Guards depot gathering dust. How many of those are sending to Ukraine? None. And they had passed the 40 billion aid package, with President have the right to transfer existing stock to Ukraine, yet NONE of that are transferred.
> 
> Bulgaria have 1000 T-72/BMP1/BMP2 stored, how many of those went to Ukraine? 40 T-72....
> 
> Poland is probably the leader in this aid package, Of the 1000 T-72 Poland stored, they had transferred 242 to Ukraine.
> 
> If NATO really want Ukraine to defeat the Russian, try sending 10% of this list to Ukraine, 10% of the excess article would most likely turn the tide for Ukraine, yet, they are rather this equipment gather dust in depot than put it to Ukrainian Frontline. Don't get me started with Fighter Jet and Bomber.
> 
> Only dumbass would think NATO had done even remotely enough to try to help Ukraine.



If NATO doesnt give a shit then why all the cheerleading? Why not just let russia end it quickly? Why get so many ukranians killed and cities demolished? I guess russia and others are right, NATO is an evil warmongering alliance, destroying world peace. First they hint and letting ukraine join and then leave them to be destroyed by russia and then claim russia is a pxssy. What kind of dumb morons are you ppl?😂 never seen someone go around in circles so much.

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## gambit

Thinker3 said:


> You have right to your opinion and as you are a veteran I respect that, but when it comes to Iraq I am not talking about just airforce perspective, no way Iraqi Airforce could take on US Airforce, like I said US military is extremely well trained, *if you look at it Ukrainian Airforce is also completely destroyed by Russia, and in the first few days Russian Airforce gained complete Air supremacy*, but Russia is taking damage from Manpads and ATGM's, so if Iraq had good Soviet Manpads, ATGMs and SAMs things would have been much different.


I highly recommend this book: *Firepower: How Weapons Shaped Warfare *by Paul Lockhart.





__





Firepower: How Weapons Shaped Warfare: Lockhart, Paul: 9781541672963: Amazon.com: Books


Firepower: How Weapons Shaped Warfare [Lockhart, Paul] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Firepower: How Weapons Shaped Warfare



www.amazon.com





It is a new book (2021), informative, thought provoking, and worth a PERMANENT seat in anyone's bookshelf who is interested in history. Not light reading either at 560 pages, not counting sections for reference sources.

But the book confirmed what I have been trying on this forum, and largely failed, to explain the impact of airpower on warfare. Throughout the history of war and warfare, there are points of no return, meaning a weapon came along and altered the course of warfare irrevocably. If you do not have X weapon, the odds of you losing battles trespassed %50. The spear is one such point, the bow and arrow is another, the horse is another, gunpowder, the ship, and the airplane just to name a few more examples.

The airplane and the submarine are attacks from the 3rd dimension. If you do not have either in their respective fields of battles, you will lose. All the major navies have subs. Those without are nearly terrified of those who have. But Lockhart also pointed out that just because you have X weapon, failure to employ it effectively is just as bad as not having it. And that is what we saw with the VKS in Ukraine. Supposedly, the Ukrainian Air Force numbers about 100+ fighters. The VKS can wield 10x. That mean Russia should have control of Ukraine within a few weeks. Why not? The best analogy I could come up with is that Russia uses the VKS as if a rifleman uses his machine gun like a musket. What is the time distance between the musket and the machine gun, eh? That is how bad I think of the VKS in particular and of the Russian military in general.

So absent effective use of the airplane over Ukraine, from both sides, we now see ground forces fighting close to how WW I soldiers did. The reason I am harsh on the VKS is because of its numerical superiority and Russia's reputation as a military power. It is not Russia compare to US or to the Brits or the Germans or anyone else, but to Ukraine. In a time where we travels thru the air casually over any weekend, there is no acceptable excuse for the sorry performance of the VKS against Ukraine.


----------



## Thinker3

gambit said:


> I highly recommend this book: *Firepower: How Weapons Shaped Warfare *by Paul Lockhart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firepower: How Weapons Shaped Warfare: Lockhart, Paul: 9781541672963: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> Firepower: How Weapons Shaped Warfare [Lockhart, Paul] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Firepower: How Weapons Shaped Warfare
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a new book (2021), informative, thought provoking, and worth a PERMANENT seat in anyone's bookshelf who is interested in history. Not light reading either at 560 pages, not counting sections for reference sources.
> 
> But the book confirmed what I have been trying on this forum, and largely failed, to explain the impact of airpower on warfare. Throughout the history of war and warfare, there are points of no return, meaning a weapon came along and altered the course of warfare irrevocably. If you do not have X weapon, the odds of you losing battles trespassed %50. The spear is one such point, the bow and arrow is another, the horse is another, gunpowder, the ship, and the airplane just to name a few more examples.
> 
> The airplane and the submarine are attacks from the 3rd dimension. If you do not have either in their respective fields of battles, you will lose. All the major navies have subs. Those without are nearly terrified of those who have. But Lockhart also pointed out that just because you have X weapon, failure to employ it effectively is just as bad as not having it. And that is what we saw with the VKS in Ukraine. Supposedly, the Ukrainian Air Force numbers about 100+ fighters. The VKS can wield 10x. That mean Russia should have control of Ukraine within a few weeks. Why not? The best analogy I could come up with is that Russia uses the VKS as if a rifleman uses his machine gun like a musket. What is the time distance between the musket and the machine gun, eh? That is how bad I think of the VKS in particular and of the Russian military in general.
> 
> So absent effective use of the airplane over Ukraine, from both sides, we now see ground forces fighting close to how WW I soldiers did. The reason I am harsh on the VKS is because of its numerical superiority and Russia's reputation as a military power. It is not Russia compare to US or to the Brits or the Germans or anyone else, but to Ukraine. In a time where we travels thru the air casually over any weekend, there is no acceptable excuse for the sorry performance of the VKS against Ukraine.


I will try to read the book.
Russian Airforce did achieve Air supremacy and completely Destroyed Ukranian Airforce in first few days of war, Russian Airforce and combat helicopters are facing problems from manpads.


----------



## jhungary

TNT said:


> If NATO doesnt give a shit then why all the cheerleading? Why not just let russia end it quickly? Why get so many ukranians killed and cities demolished? I guess russia and others are right, NATO is an evil warmongering alliance, destroying world peace. First they hint and letting ukraine join and then leave them to be destroyed by russia and then claim russia is a pxssy. What kind of dumb morons are you ppl?😂 never seen someone go around in circles so much.


You probably too naive to understand. 

War is good for NATO, NATO need something to show they are still needed, before this, NATO is all but abandoned and nobody care about paying money in defence, instead it gone into "Social Program" or simply gone woke.

This war in all circumstance revitalizes NATO, it makes people who weren't interested in joining NATO thinking about joining, it makes NATO member who does not care about defence care about defence. Before it was all kind of excuse to get to the 2% NATO defence budget mark, now they all wanted to do it ASAP,

If they let either party win, be it Ukraine or Russia, that party is over, nobody cares about defence again, everything going back to what it was before this war, people care about shit because either Russia win and they took Ukraine, game over, Russia got what it wanted and they are going back to blackmail EU with oil and gas, or Ukraine win and Russia no longer a threat and neutered. Either way, you may as well disband NATO.

Keep this war going tho, you put everyone in the back foot, everyone will scare this is going to spill over, everyone would think they are next. NATO needs a bogeyman, they try to sell it on China, but China is too far, and then come Putin the useful idiot. He singles handily did what NATO cannot since 1945, ad no US President can do since Clinton, revitalise NATO and expand with 2 more new member. Maybe more depends on what Kosovo, Georgia and Moldova thinking. 

Russia is a puxsy, otherwise why else would they attack the only country that are not in NATO when their goal is to roll back NATO and get the Russian empire back? It's a useful Puxsy for NATO, you need a loud mouth moron to take charge and really go attack someone so other people feel threaten and join NATO, and Putin is that loud mouth moron.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> I know what weapon upgrade means, you on the other hand, probably don't know, as evidence that you use a fighter jet as an example for upgrade and failed to realise the different between a fighter jet and small arms.
> 
> 
> But we are talking about Javelin or NLAW, which is a single use Portable Weapon system. We are not talking about TOW (which could have 4 launcher) or any Multiple Use Rocket. Those are not the weapon the West supplying Ukraine with. If you want to talk about multiple use rocket launcher, that's another topic.


Javelin can fire multiple missiles from one launcher.


----------



## Viet

6 months into war Ukraine has received money, weapons, aid and other relief worth 85 billion euros.









Welche Länder unterstützen die Ukraine am meisten?


Waffen, Kredite, Hilfsgüter - Wer unterstützt die Ukraine und mit was? Ein Vergleich in Zahlen.




interaktiv.tagesspiegel.de


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565603325344718849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565626386223665152


Viet said:


> 6 months into war Ukraine has received money, weapons, aid and other relief worth 85 billion euros.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Welche Länder unterstützen die Ukraine am meisten?
> 
> 
> Waffen, Kredite, Hilfsgüter - Wer unterstützt die Ukraine und mit was? Ein Vergleich in Zahlen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> interaktiv.tagesspiegel.de



Waste of money for nothing. Germans should be like Mexicans, Brazilians, South Africans and chill. Ukraine is not their country.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565603325344718849
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565626386223665152
> 
> 
> Waste of money for nothing. Germans should be like Mexicans, Brazilians, South Africans and chill. Ukraine is not their country.


What do Putin and the Russia invasion army in Ukraine! It’s not their country.

They can “abhauen” piss off as Zelinskki says it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> What do Putin and the Russia invasion army in Ukraine! It’s not their country.
> 
> They can “abhauen” piss off as Zelinskki says it.



Under UN Charter, it is legal to invade a country to defend oppressed civilians from authoritarian regime who bully them based on their ethnic or religious background. The US did that in 1999 in Kosovo war.

The US invade China to protect Uyghurs from Chinese government if they have the power to do that so so far not enough power to do that.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Under UN Charter, it is legal to invade a country to defend oppressed civilians from authoritarian regime who bully them based on their ethnic or religious background. The US did that in 1999 in Kosovo war.
> 
> The US invade China to protect Uyghurs from Chinese government if they have the power to do that so so far not enough power to do that.


What UN charta? Self cooked in Putin’s kitchen?

This war doesn’t concern China they should stay neutral, not supporting the separatists.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine partisans issue ultimatum to Russians at Cherson: either piss off or face Himars missiles!








Ein Plakat in Cherson: Untergrundgruppen drohen den russischen Besatzern, sie sollten sich zurückziehen – anderenfalls würden bald die Raketenwerfer vom Himars nachhelfen.
© Quelle: Ukraine Defense Ministry


----------



## NotSure

ZeGerman said:


> We literally spent billions and 20 years arming and training ANA and look at their combat performance.


No wonder, if the teacher is an imbecile with no understanding of land warfare.


----------



## ZeGerman

aziqbal said:


> Russians are now in the centre of Bakhmut and Avdiivka
> 
> The Soviet Steamroller has broke through the Bakhmut-Soldar-Seversk defensive lines which was fortified for 8 years since 2014 with deep tunnels, trenches and heavy concrete interlocking pill boxes
> 
> it also had high ground which was very hard to take, Russian took it
> 
> the Soviets are Soviets, no one knows how to take land better than them which is why they are the largest nation on earth for 500 years
> 
> they are masters of diversion and encirclement of armies
> 
> they also have a huge stomach to take punishment and casualties and can absorb anything you through at them
> 
> next line is the Kramastrosk-Sloviansk and actually this line is more heavily defended than previous one
> 
> but no doubt Russians will crush all opposition


People make jokes on “lack of progress” of ukraine counteroffensive. 

But how is Russias steamroller going? 
Balhmut/soledor were set to fall and then it was just blitzing over the flat terrain after that right?


----------



## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> Javelin can fire multiple missiles from one launcher.


Javelin CANNOT fire multiple missiles from one launcher at once.........

Dude, have you ever used a Javelin before?

A Javelin missile system were made up of 2 parts. A CLU (Control Launch Unit) and a Missile Housing. Missile housing house 1 single missile and it is disposable. which mean once that missile is expanded, the housing is to be discarded. CLU have to plug into a housing before you can launch a Javelin missile, without either, you can't launch anything. 

1 CLU can only be plug in 1 housing at any time, you can take the CLU off and plug it in another Missile Housing and fire that housing, CLU can be reused, Missile Housing cannot. 

And no, you cannot port a CLU in 2 missiles. You have to fire the one you plug in, and then take it off and put it on another and fire it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> People make jokes on “lack of progress” of ukraine counteroffensive.
> 
> But how is Russias steamroller going?
> Balhmut/soledor were set to fall and then it was just blitzing over the flat terrain after that right?



And Ukrainians were claiming they would take Moscow within a week. How that working out for them? So much for Europe's strongest army.

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## zartosht

Looks like another twitter offensive from the Ukies has been slaughtered. The Ukies had to sacrifice another few hundred of their best men for a couple of pictures.

people need to realize that when faced with a strong attack, The Russian tactic is not to hold ground at all costs. Thats stupid. They have an elastic defense that cedes some territory, while grinding the ukies and luring them into artilery death zones..

It is amazing what Russia is achieving with a 100k expeditionary army

Every single inch of territory captured is land ukraine will never ever see again. These lands were given to "ukraine" as an internal soviet administration decision. There is nothing "ukranian" about these Russian speaking regions. Historically they have been Russian, Russia is literally getting bigger by the day, while the twitter army continues to bark about some fantasy "victory"

Ukraine didnt like the USSR and wanted to remove everything about it? well Putin rightfully said why go halfway? give back everything you got from soviet times, especially the prime real estate given to ukraine for free as an internal soviet decision.

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## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> And Ukrainians were claiming they would take Moscow within a week. How that working out for them? So much for Europe's strongest army.


Why are you debating your own nonsense delusions as if this was a valid point? 

They were not.


----------



## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> People make jokes on “lack of progress” of ukraine counteroffensive.
> 
> But how is Russias steamroller going?
> Balhmut/soledor were set to fall and then it was just blitzing over the flat terrain after that right?


He has been saying that like every week Bakhmut and Adviiaka would fall. Yet, today the Armed Force of Ukraine posted a picture of soldier patrolling Pisky, Bakhmut......Russia is close (Last Update was 4 miles away from Bakhmut Town center), but still unable to take either. And he has been saying that since a month ago...


----------



## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> Looks like another twitter offensive from the Ukies has been slaughtered. The Ukies had to sacrifice another few hundred of their best men for a couple of pictures.
> 
> people need to realize that when faced with a strong attack, The Russian tactic is not to hold ground at all costs. Thats stupid. They have an elastic defense that cedes some territory, while grinding the ukies and luring them into artilery death zones..
> 
> It is amazing what Russia is achieving with a 100k expeditionary army
> 
> Every single inch of territory captured is land ukraine will never ever see again. These lands were given to "ukraine" as an internal soviet administration decision. There is nothing "ukranian" about these Russian speaking regions. Historically they have been Russian, Russia is literally getting bigger by the day, while the twitter army continues to bark about some fantasy "victory"
> 
> Ukraine didnt like the USSR and wanted to remove everything about it? well Putin rightfully said why go halfway? give back everything you got from soviet times, especially the prime real estate given to ukraine for free as an internal soviet decision.


Like with the captured ground around kiev and kharkov in march? 

Are you just trolling now?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Why are you debating your own nonsense delusions as if this was a valid point?
> 
> They were not.



Ukraine is Kievan Rus. Kievan Rus is by far the most powerful Slavic country. Russia is only a backwater nobody in the Slavic world. Ukrainians claimed they can take back Moscow within a week. Major fail for Europe's most powerful army.


----------



## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Like with the captured ground around kiev and kharkov in march?
> 
> Are you just trolling now?


Don't forget Snake Island..........They probably need to write a book detailing how to lose an island to an enemy without a Navy............


----------



## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> Javelin CANNOT fire multiple missiles from one launcher at once.........
> 
> Dude, have you ever used a Javelin before?
> 
> A Javelin missile system were made up of 2 parts. A CLU (Control Launch Unit) and a Missile Housing. Missile housing house 1 single missile and it is disposable. which mean once that missile is expanded, the housing is to be discarded. CLU have to plug into a housing before you can launch a Javelin missile, without either, you can't launch anything.
> 
> 1 CLU can only be plug in 1 housing at any time, you can take the CLU off and plug it in another Missile Housing and fire that housing, CLU can be reused, Missile Housing cannot.
> 
> And no, you cannot port a CLU in 2 missiles. You have to fire the one you plug in, and then take it off and put it on another and fire it.


Yes, you can use 1 CLU to fire many missiles, one at a time.


----------



## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> Yes, you can use 1 CLU to fire many missiles, one at a time.


That's the same as single use missile.......It depends on the missile being expanded first. If you have 10 AT4 launcher lying in front of you, you can fire 10 AT4 missile one by one, that does not make AT-4 launcher capable of firing multiple missile.....


----------



## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> He has been saying that like every week Bakhmut and Adviiaka would fall. Yet, today the Armed Force of Ukraine posted a picture of soldier patrolling Pisky, Bakhmut......Russia is close (Last Update was 4 miles away from Bakhmut Town center), but still unable to take either. And he has been saying that since a month ago...


Yep, or like hassan al somali with his incessant claims of encirclements and pockets just around the corner! 


It does seem the ukranians are meeting heavy resistance from the russians in Kherson. I do wonder how long the russians can keep this intensity of fire support going considering their degraded supply lines and how often their ammo depots are being hit. 
Strategically, kherson looks tricky for them to defend.


----------



## zartosht

ZeGerman said:


> Like with the captured ground around kiev and kharkov in march?
> 
> Are you just trolling now?


 
You still huffing and puffing about the russian adjustment in strategy? rural territory is very easy to take in this war. Russia could reoccupy those lands and then some whenver it wants. 

Russian offensive at the beginning was a blitz that was semi-succesful. While not breaking the kiev regime, Russia did manage to grab a huge amount of territory, including strategic kherson with barely any fighting.

its now an artillery duel where the Russians outgun the ukies 50 to 1 and are slaughtering the ukie army slow but methodically. while keeping their own casualties low....

The war is going much better for Russia then germany.... dont shower too long my friend, winter is coming. and you will see how useless inflated western brands are when theres no energy...



jhungary said:


> Don't forget Snake Island..........They probably need to write a book detailing how to lose an island to an enemy without a Navy............



What a glorious victory for a propaganda rock...

so strategic was this rock, that the ukies were defending it with 10-15 men with AKs... While Russia got a glorious initial victory by capturing those soldiers. Kiev started barking about their glorious fight to the death (LOL)

nothing exemplifies how pathetic the ukies are then snake island. general jhungary, I expected better from you.... you are our resident forum general (the only one as far as im aware) mutli-talented in intel,military, sof, belly dancing, and geopolitics...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> That's the same as single use missile.......It depends on the missile being expanded first. If you have 10 AT4 launcher lying in front of you, you can fire 10 AT4 missile one by one, that does not make AT-4 launcher capable of firing multiple missile.....


My point was that one Javelin launcher doesn't mean 1 missile, one launcher can have many missiles.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565693493812527108

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Yep, or like hassan al somali with his incessant claims of encirclements and pockets just around the corner!
> 
> 
> It does seem the ukranians are meeting heavy resistance from the russians in Kherson. I do wonder how long the russians can keep this intensity of fire support going considering their degraded supply lines and how often their ammo depots are being hit.
> Strategically, kherson looks tricky for them to defend.


From the look of it, Ukraine does not want to flatten Kherson, which is what the Russian did to almost every city they captured.

From the limited information I got, the planning for Ukrainian Armed Forces seems like try to encircle Kherson from 3 routes, T1501 from the West, M14 from the North and E58 from the East. The force converge in Kherson.

Russian 3rd Army already being pin as all of the bridge behind them are destroyed or damaged. Which mean if Ukraine want, they can just keep firing HIMARS into Kherson and take out as many Russian position they want, but judging from the language both Zelenskyy uses and High Command of AFU, it seems like Ukraine wanted to encircle the Russian force and make them retreat. There is pretty much no way for the Russian to hold indefinitely, to do that, they will need to have at least 1 of the bridge functioning. And once the 3 pronged met and converge in Kherson, that's pretty much game over for the Russian.

The problem is, to pull that off, Ukraine would need at least 2 times the Russian force, Russia has around 20k troop in the area, Ukraine is very tight lip about their formation, but general estimate usually put Ukrainian force at 5 to 6 Brigade, which is roughly 30,000 men. That is not enough to take on the defender. Unless Russia willingly retreats, this counter offensive is going to take a long time to complete. But all in all, unless Russia somehow manages to fix one of the bridges, I don't see how Russia can hold on indefinitely, they may be able to hold until winter came, but once fighting season start again next year, it will still be the same, their position is going to get pounded by HIMARS. And they would have problem bringing in reinforcement.



Thinker3 said:


> My point was that one Javelin launcher doesn't mean 1 missile, one launcher can have many missiles.


CLU is not a launcher......CLU is like the trigger of a firearms. The launcher is the tube that hold the missile.


----------



## Vergennes

ZeGerman said:


> Yep, or like hassan al somali with his incessant claims of encirclements and pockets just around the corner!
> 
> 
> It does seem the ukranians are meeting heavy resistance from the russians in Kherson. I do wonder how long the russians can keep this intensity of fire support going considering their degraded supply lines and how often their ammo depots are being hit.
> Strategically, kherson looks tricky for them to defend.



Dudes like the ones you cited are everydays telling us how the Russian army is killing 500K Ukrainian soldiers/hour and capturing 500km everydays while the reality is in August despite still amassing huge firepower and superior forces (+add LNR/DNR cannon fodders,volunteers and tiktok kadyrovites although they are quite discret recently,wonder why...) only managed to advance something like few hundred meters and capturing half of the village of Pisky despite turning it into rubbles.


----------



## jhungary

zartosht said:


> What a glorious victory for a propaganda rock...
> 
> so strategic was this rock, that the ukies were defending it with 10-15 men with AKs... While Russia got a glorious initial victory by capturing those soldiers. Kiev started barking about their glorious fight to the death (LOL)
> 
> nothing exemplifies how pathetic the ukies are then snake island. general jhungary, I expected better from you.... you are our resident forum general (the only one as far as im aware) mutli-talented in intel,military, sof, belly dancing, and geopolitics...


You have no idea how important Snake Island is to Russia haven't you?

There are no way Russia can fly aircraft into Odessa without refuelling, which mean whatever and whenever they decided to attack Odessa, Russian Aircraft can only have low on station time, you need long loitering time to support a seaborne invasion.

On the other hand, if Ukraine control Snake Island, they can (and did) position Anti Air Battery and now also Anti-Ship battery to further push Russian Air and Sea support out. Which mean if Ukraine have snake island, there are probably no way Russia can get close enough to launch an invasion anyway.

And finally, if Snake Island is all unimportant and only defended by 15 dudes with AK, then why Russia take it from day 1? Using their own Black Sea fleet flagship to do the job no less? In fact, if that "Rock" as you put it is extremely unimportant, why take it at all and try to reinforce the garrison for months. It's not like Russian took it and do nothing with it....Russian lost 2 transport, 1 tug boat, 1 cruiser, 3 aircrafts and unknown number of Ground Hardware and soldier try to defend Snake Island, dude, if it is nothing, they won't try to take it from the Ukrainian and try to defend it. 

Dude, I know you are delusional, but it pays to use your brain once in a while. Or maybe I am asking you people too much to try to think on a strategic level.


----------



## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> You still huffing and puffing about the russian adjustment in strategy? rural territory is very easy to take in this war. Russia could reoccupy those lands and then some whenver it wants.


Nonsense. They barely have enough to hold onto kherson or seize more then 100 meter land in donbass lately


zartosht said:


> Russian offensive at the beginning was a blitz that was semi-succesful. While not breaking the kiev regime, Russia did manage to grab a huge amount of territory, including strategic kherson with barely any fighting.


More nonsence. With how unprepared ukraine was in south that would have fell regardless. And did in the first week. 

The north and east offensive were complete shitshows costing the russians immensely. This was no “diversion” 



zartosht said:


> its now an artillery duel where the Russians outgun the ukies 50 to 1 and are slaughtering the ukie army slow but methodically. while keeping their own casualties low....


Every day i see blown up russians on videos. Their casualties are not low, and fire intensity has reduced from a 10vs1 advantage to less. 

Alot of that number advantage is also used on leveling infrastructure and towns to the ground. Not high on kill efficiency. 


But lets just see how their 3 day special operation is continuing.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Real comedy

Kirill Stremousow, the Gouverneur of Cherson installed by Moscow, announcing Ukraine offensive failing. The victory is near.
Meanwhile he escaped to Russia.
His post revealed he is hiding in a Marriott hotel in Woronesch. 800 km from Cherson.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565741812484022272


----------



## The SC




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565537184765169665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565536211883753472


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The president has the right to not join EU. Now Ukrainians will pay with the first forever war in human history. Is it worth it? Ukraine will never join EU anyway.


It’s not a forever war, never will be. 
The paper bear is hallow and already has a broken economy that won’t be fixed.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Sure. But do you think America can out supply China? I don't think so. America may be able to supply 1500 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, but guess what? China can supply 10 times as many anti tank missiles to Russia. It will be America that loses the war.


China won’t supply squat, stop with the what if’s


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> It’s not a forever war, never will be.
> The paper bear is hallow and already has a broken economy that won’t be fixed.



It is the first war in human history to the last man or woman or child. It takes hundreds if not thousands of years. For all intents and purposes it is forever.


----------



## RoadAmerica

TNT said:


> If NATO doesnt give a shit then why all the cheerleading? Why not just let russia end it quickly? Why get so many ukranians killed and cities demolished? I guess russia and others are right, NATO is an evil warmongering alliance, destroying world peace. First they hint and letting ukraine join and then leave them to be destroyed by russia and then claim russia is a pxssy. What kind of dumb morons are you ppl?😂 never seen someone go around in circles so much.


Get Ukrainians killed??? You must forget who the aggressor is 🤷🏿‍♂️



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It is the first war in human history to the last man or woman or child. It takes hundreds if not thousands of years. For all intents and purposes it is forever.


You’ll be proven very wrong in short time once Russia pulls back


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> You’ll be proven very wrong in short time once Russia pulls back



Not gonna happen. If Russians leave Ukraine than Ukrainians invade Russia to take Moscow.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565758649435394049


----------



## Wood




----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565764961560940549

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565764705729355776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565735113203367936


----------



## Viet

The G7 plans to establish an international buyer cartel with the aim to cap Russia oil price. That will deal a huge blow to Putin. Oil is the biggest income source for Moscow.

In parallel the EU is ready to intervene in the European gas and electricity markets.
The prices for gas and electricity will be capped as well.







__





G7 agrees to price cap on Russian oil


G7 finance ministers have called for a price cap on Russian oil. Their goal is to stop Russia from profiting from its war against Ukraine.




amp.dw.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> The G7 plans to establish an international buyer cartel with the aim to cap Russia oil price. That will deal a huge blow to Putin. Oil is the biggest income source for Moscow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G7 agrees to price cap on Russian oil
> 
> 
> G7 finance ministers have called for a price cap on Russian oil. Their goal is to stop Russia from profiting from its war against Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.dw.com



If Russia don't export any oil then they will simply print money the way America prints money. Print lots and lots of money.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565694099860213760


----------



## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If Russia don't export any oil then they will simply print money the way America prints money. Print lots and lots of money.


Sure, but Russia cannot export inflation. The US can.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565473957892980739


----------



## oberschlesier

European gas storage > 80% and still growing, with Nord Stream not working:



Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

oberschlesier said:


> European gas storage > 80% and still growing, with Nord Stream not working:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI


Germany gas storage is higher: 85 percent and rising, despite 0 gas from Russia.

Putin gas blackmailing is failing.

Germany receives gas from Norway over two gas pipelines. Europipe 1 and 2.
In addition Germany receives gas delivery from Netherlands and Belgium.

What will Putin do now with 90 billion cubic meters gas surplus?

Burn it?


----------



## The SC




----------



## NotSure

A Russian PKP (?) gunner vs. american super soldiers like our "military man" Jhungary, RoadAmerica and all the other Cowboys with their big mouth and spray and pray tactics. Not so super after all. Or at least super dead.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/x49usn

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
2 | Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Ahmadbhutta01

There is a blood bath going on in kherson where thousands of Ukrainian soldiers trapped are being butchered :/

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

Viet said:


> What will Putin do now with 90 billion cubic meters gas surplus?
> 
> Burn it?



Definitely not sell it to Europe. Maybe they will try to transfer it to China using buckets 
To be serious I think it`s a leverage to soften the Oil embargo, anyway in a long run it`s a one way ticket for Gazprom.


----------



## dbc

NotSure said:


> A Russian PKP (?) gunner vs. american super soldiers like our "military man" @jhungary, @RoadAmerica and all the other Cowboys with their big mouth and spray and pray tactics. Not so super after all. Or at least super dead.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/x49usn



it's a scene from a movie Rats and Dogs. Go sniff on some Putin farts for inspiration and then come back.
@jhungary @RoadAmerica 


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarMovies/comments/gwv96g

Reactions: Like Like:
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## 925boy

ZeGerman said:


> Like with the captured ground around kiev and kharkov in march?


can you tell us how those events impacted the war in any consequential ways? it didnt! the kiev move was a lure and distraction, which Ukraine fell for....or Russian military changed its mind/plans/strategy..SO WHAT?


ZeGerman said:


> Are you just trolling now?


no that's what you're doing, saying it proves you projecting. smh

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NotSure

dbc said:


> it's a scene from a movie Rats and Dogs. Go sniff on some Putin farts for inspiration and then come back.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/WarMovies/comments/gwv96g


Don't need it, enough american super soldiers are sniffing on russian projectiles and missiles in ukraine. Let's hope, it will be recorded, so we can see it.


----------



## Viet

oberschlesier said:


> Definitely not sell it to Europe. Maybe they will try to transfer it to China using buckets
> To be serious I think it`s a leverage to soften the Oil embargo, anyway in a long run it`s a one way ticket for Gazprom.


Gazprom is finished.
All the talks Germany will collapse if Putin turns off gas. Nothing happens. Life continues.
Yes inflation is high. Everything is expensive. But not the end of the world.


----------



## dbc

NotSure said:


> Don't need it, enough american super soldiers are sniffing on russian projectiles in ukraine. Let's hope, it will be recorded, so we can see it.


I feel sorry for you, hope Putin doesn't throw you out of a hospital window for that propaganda fail.

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## NotSure

dbc said:


> I feel sorry for you, hope Putin doesn't throw you out of a hospital window for that propaganda fail.


You should feel sorry for yourself, giving this NPC answer. Putin, Propaganda, bla bla. How many times i have read this garbage? It's like reading the "The warzone" comment section with all the murica stronk imbeciles.

I do not know every movie, and?

Ok, here is a real example, what happens, if you have angloid imbeciles as a teacher and try to capture the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant. Is this a movie too in your reality? At the end of the day YOU angloids have killed this men, like many other Ukrainian=Russian men:

https://****/intelslava/36343


----------



## The SC




----------



## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> You still huffing and puffing about the russian adjustment in strategy? rural territory is very easy to take in this war. Russia could reoccupy those lands and then some whenver it wants.
> 
> Russian offensive at the beginning was a blitz that was semi-succesful. While not breaking the kiev regime, Russia did manage to grab a huge amount of territory, including strategic kherson with barely any fighting.
> 
> its now an artillery duel where the Russians outgun the ukies 50 to 1 and are slaughtering the ukie army slow but methodically. while keeping their own casualties low....
> 
> The war is going much better for Russia then germany.... dont shower too long my friend, winter is coming. and you will see how useless inflated western brands are when theres no energy...
> 
> 
> 
> What a glorious victory for a propaganda rock...
> 
> so strategic was this rock, that the ukies were defending it with 10-15 men with AKs... While Russia got a glorious initial victory by capturing those soldiers. Kiev started barking about their glorious fight to the death (LOL)
> 
> nothing exemplifies how pathetic the ukies are then snake island. general jhungary, I expected better from you.... you are our resident forum general (the only one as far as im aware) mutli-talented in intel,military, sof, belly dancing, and geopolitics...


Seriously, nothing above is true.
Huge amount of territory- not really 
Reoccupy - 🤣
Casualties low - 😂
Outgun 50:1 - sure if you include non combat relics 

I mean I can go on but some of us come here for updates and intelligent debate not the opinion of a child

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## oberschlesier

925boy said:


> can you tell us how those events impacted the war in any consequential ways? it didnt! the kiev move was a lure and distraction, which Ukraine fell for....or Russian military changed its mind/plans/strategy..SO WHAT?
> 
> no that's what you're doing, saying it proves you projecting. smh


Actually the Kiev moved probably defined the outcome of this war.

As long Russia won`t occupy Kiev or install a Pro-Russian goverment there, this whole thing does not make sense for them. Ukraine will still exists as a extremely hostile state for Russia financed from the West.

In this moment: Russia occupies 20% of Ukraine, Zelensky goverment is still in Power, controls the armed Forces, has popular support and is financed from the West. If the Kiev move would work, this would not be the case.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565793581830389764


----------



## Stryker1982

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565798823703740416
Apparently Iranian ammunition in Ukrainian hands, ammunition appears to have been made in 2022. 

It's possible a third country, has bought some munitions from Iran, and is gun running it to Ukraine

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565796955405565955

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565794671770869760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565793467867041792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565792755363844097

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> There is a blood bath going on in kherson where thousands of Ukrainian soldiers trapped are being butchered :/



Zelensky sent the young men to die for nothing. It is his agenda.

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## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Zelensky sent the young men to die for nothing. It is his agenda.


Actualy you don`t know what is happening here, even if they die, it was not for nothing. For Ukraine the Kherson area is a ideal Trap for the Russian troops. 3 bridges over a big river ? You can just channel the Russian troops there and gradually destroy them with psuedo offensives. The Russians will come, as they don`t want to loose Kherson.


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

*The Kremlin is likely seeking to capitalize on the significance of seizing areas around Donetsk City that have been contested since 2014 to boost the morale of Russian and proxy forces.* Russian forces have not been successful in advancing toward Siversk or capturing the E40 highway to Slovyansk-Bakhmut since the fall of Lysychansk and are likely experiencing challenges incentivizing Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) elements to continue fighting to reach the Donetsk Oblast administrative borders.[15] Russian forces had minor territorial gains around Avdiivka, which generated positive chatter among the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) fighters in early August after which the advances stalled west of Donetsk City.[16]






Institute for the Study of War


Russian President Vladimir Putin reiterated his false framing of Russia’s unprovoked invasion of Ukraine as a defensive operation to protect Russia on September 1. During a meeting with schoolchildren in Kaliningrad, Putin stated that the purpose of the “




www.understandingwar.org






Russian offensive capability has been essentially destroyed.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sifar zero

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian offensive capability has been essentially destroyed.


Hearing that since the war started.

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## F-22Raptor

Sifar zero said:


> Hearing that since the war started.



You realize they haven’t moved in 2 months right?


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

NotSure said:


> A Russian PKP (?) gunner vs. american super soldiers like our "military man" Jhungary, RoadAmerica and all the other Cowboys with their big mouth and spray and pray tactics. Not so super after all. Or at least super dead.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/x49usn



LOL! WTF? Have you been a clueless all you life or something? You are posting some scene from a 10 year old movie.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565821508265680899

Russian losses now exceed 5,400

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## NotSure

Hamartia Antidote said:


> LOL! WTF? Have you been a clueless all you life or something? You are posting some movie scene.


I will quote myself, Frito Pendejo:



NotSure said:


> You should feel sorry for yourself, giving this NPC answer. Putin, Propaganda, bla bla. How many times i have read this garbage? It's like reading the "The warzone" comment section with all the murica stronk imbeciles.
> 
> I do not know every movie, and?
> 
> Ok, here is a real example, what happens, if you have angloid imbeciles as a teacher and try to capture the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant. Is this a movie too in your reality? At the end of the day YOU angloids have killed this men, like many other Ukrainian=Russian men:
> 
> https://****/intelslava/36343



Is this a movie too?

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Like Like:
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## Hamartia Antidote

NotSure said:


> I will quote myself, Frito Pendejo:



The only thing you are showing PDF is that Russian's are still bumbling oafs who think movie footage is real life.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565803533831651329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565803276095873026

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

Sifar zero said:


> Hearing that since the war started.


Ah don't worry, f22 raptor will just say they haven't moved in over 2 months or some crap. Or probably resort to saying the US would roflstomp Russia or something like Desert Storm US would destroy Russia or something along those lines.

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## NotSure

Hamartia Antidote said:


> The only thing you are showing PDF is that Russian's are still bumbling oafs who think movie footage is real life.


So i guess all the dead ukr. special need (because trained by nato) forces near the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant are from some kind of a movie.

I will post the link again: https://****/intelslava/36343

But you can milk my mistake as long as you want. Maybe 6 months, like you are milking the fake story about the russian plan to capture Kiev. You don't even have the guts to quote me, you must delete like 90%.

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## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> So i guess all the dead ukr. special need (because trained by nato) forces near the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant are from some kind of a movie.
> 
> I will post the link again: https://****/intelslava/36343
> 
> But you can milk my mistake as long as you want. Maybe 6 months, like you are milking the fake story about the russian plan to capture Kiev. You don't even have the guts to quote me, you must delete like 90%.


Of course there no Russia forces attacking Kiev in March. There were just tourists from the VDV.
Anyway a complete **** up.

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## NotSure

oberschlesier said:


> Of course there no Russia forces attacking Kiev in March. There just turist from the VDV.
> Anyway a complete **** up.


 Auf der Oder-Neiße schwamm ein Stückchen Scheiße, kam der kleine Nowak, dachte es wär Tobak. Steckt es in die Pfeife. Ach das war ja Scheiße.


----------



## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> Auf der Oder-Neiße schwamm ein Stückchen Scheiße, kam der kleine Nowak, dachte es wär Tobak. Steckt es in die Pfeife. Ach das war ja Scheiße.


wow, you are changing the topic. So my comment was right, I see.


----------



## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> Nope, Polacke, your reply has no topic relevant content.
> 
> By the way: Heute gestohlen, morgen schon in Polen.


Letztens hier: Heute gestohlen, morgen schon in Russland 

Polacke ... lol ach diese Wasserdeutche... wie komisch die sind...

RU / DE - das ist mehr als ein Witz


----------



## NotSure

oberschlesier said:


> Letztens hier: Heute gestohlen, morgen schon in Russland


You can't even invent a saying, so you must steal it. Poor Polacke.

But you still have not answered my question: When you was the last time on the monkey island to clean their toilets and capture a little bit of angloid shit? To feel like a real westoid cuckold?


----------



## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> You can't even invent a saying, so you must steal it. Poor Polacke.
> 
> But you still have not answered my question: When you was the last time on the monkey island to clean their toilets and capture a little bit of angloid shit? To feel like a real westoid?


You are Russian in Germany ? What are doing there ? You are not a TRUE Russian Patriot, I see. Just a simple traitor. For me, don`t worry I have my dignity.

Ach, diese russische Wasserdeutche, es geht nur ums Geld....

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## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> Yeah, i see your "dignitity". Parroting the angloid propaganda like a typical presstitute. But i guess it is better than cleaning british toilets?
> 
> By the way, Jacub: Learn german language: Ach, diese russischeN WasserdeutScheN, es geht nur ums Geld....
> 
> Deutsche Sprache, schwere Sprache.


Na Ja super... Was ich geschrieben habe, war nicht korrect ? Man! Schade, das ist mir Wurst 

btw."angloid typical propaganda presstitute" - it`s a interesting idea anyway : ) I see what is around me, economical crisis, that is not existing. LOL. Russia does not have much to offer comparing to the EU or US, that is probably the real reason why the war in Ukraine started.

"cleaning british toilets" - I don`t do that, but probably it`s better paid as a IT specialist in Moscow - Probably another real reason why the war in Ukraine started.


----------



## S10

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Zelensky sent the young men to die for nothing. It is his agenda.


Zelensky has to show the West that his forces are capable of attacking, to secure more NATO weapons. War is a continuation of politics, so I don't blame him for trying.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

S10 said:


> Zelensky has to show the West that his forces are capable of attacking, to secure more NATO weapons. War is a continuation of politics, so I don't blame him for trying.



Also, he is a sadist who enjoys massacring young men.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Also, he is a sadist who enjoys massacring young men.


well, Russia started this war...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

dbc said:


> it's a scene from a movie Rats and Dogs. Go sniff on some Putin farts for inspiration and then come back.
> @jhungary @RoadAmerica
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/WarMovies/comments/gwv96g


You don't need to be in Ukraine to know that is not Ukraine.......

That dude has gone out of his way try to discredit us, people who really know their stuff, but then every time he only manages to insult himself at the end. Sad, but fun to watch at the same time....I am just gonna sit back and watch him make a fool out of himself. And he is not lacking motivation and material to do it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> well, Russia started this war...



Kiev started the war in 2014.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

oberschlesier said:


> Letztens hier: Heute gestohlen, morgen schon in Russland
> 
> Polacke ... lol ach diese Wasserdeutche... wie komisch die sind...
> 
> RU / DE - das ist mehr als ein Witz


You need to stop responding to him.

He had enough rope to hang himself, why bother stopping a man trying to make a fool of himself.....LOL

On the other hand, Real Time Map of Kherson Counter Offensive released by UK MOD as of 02 September 2022


----------



## dbc

jhungary said:


> You need to stop responding to him.
> 
> He had enough rope to hang himself, why bother stopping a man trying to make a fool of himself.....LOL



the hilarious part is that he's goading me to pick up arms and fight for Ukraine while he cools his heals in Germany watching his comrades perish in droves while avoiding a return to his beloved mother Russia. Where he knows he'll likely be drafted , forced into a conscript uniform and sent to die or steal washing machines in Ukaraine.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dbc said:


> the hilarious part is that he's goading me to pick up arms and fight for Ukraine while he cools his heals in Germany watching his comrades perish in droves while avoiding a return to his beloved mother Russia. Where he knows he'll likely be drafted , forced into a conscript uniform and sent to die or steal washing machines in Ukaraine.



Russia does not have draft. It can't afford it.


----------



## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Kiev started the war in 2014.


Gorbachev started in 1991, I suppose,


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Gorbachev started in 1991, I suppose,



There was peace between Russia and Ukraine until 2014. Euro Maidan is the cause. Nothing else is the cause. Correlation is not causation.

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## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> There was peace between Russia and Ukraine until 2014. Euro Maidan is the cause. Nothing else is the cause. Correlation is not causation.


Well, Russia annected part of Ukraine, what were you expecting Ukraine to do?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565609142491963393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565609142491963393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565894998415085569

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Well, Russia annected part of Ukraine, what were you expecting Ukraine to do?



Ukrainians boasted they can take Moscow within a week and rebuilt Kievan Rus. Guess they are not as tough as they think they are.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565831721676935169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565816567362895872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565803533831651329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565791280109654019


----------



## Viet

NotSure said:


> Auf der Oder-Neiße schwamm ein Stückchen Scheiße, kam der kleine Nowak, dachte es wär Tobak. Steckt es in die Pfeife. Ach das war ja Scheiße.


@waz 
@The Eagle 
This guy uses foul language.


----------



## Viet

The EU considers to implement the European version of
“US defense production act”.

That would give the EU commission and European governments the authority to implement war style measures.

For instance, EU companies would be forced to meet domestic demands first before non EU customers.









Die EU will im Krisenfall der Privatwirtschaft Produktionsvorgaben machen


Die EU will im Krisenfall der Privatwirtschaft Produktionsvorgaben machen. Hier Details aus einem Entwurf, der bald präsentiert werden soll.



finanzmarktwelt.de


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The president has the right to not join EU. Now Ukrainians will pay with the first forever war in human history. Is it worth it? Ukraine will never join EU anyway.


this forever nonsense will not see the light of day. Its been 6 months. USSR was much mighter in every respect and USSR controlled the capital, major cities, and the Government in Afghanistan and it bled a thousand cuts and eventually collapsed. Pls stop propagating this myth of forever wars. No country can tolerate forever wars. US did not, Russia did not. To project Russians as some super human race that will carry this on indefinitely is not backed up by history



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Sure. But do you think America can out supply China? I don't think so. America may be able to supply 1500 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, but guess what? China can supply 10 times as many anti tank missiles to Russia. It will be America that loses the war.


Why doesn't china first stop fixing its property sector, then get a handle on Covid when 30 cases mean a city of 17m get in locked down instead of supplying tanks for a war several thousand miles away and debating theoritically if its supply will outlast Russias. 

Point is I hope as a potential global power, China has bigger things to worry about than to engage in a conflict that and they get better advice than yours. If the 1/3rd of tanks that Russia has didn't make a difference whats more tanks going to do if Russia runs out of people to fight. Not run out of people but run out of people that will fight. In Ukraine every man is fighting

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukrainians boasted they can take Moscow within a week and rebuilt Kievan Rus. Guess they are not as tough as they think they are.


That would be worth a laugh. But not as big a laugh as a perceived superpower thought it could just overrun its neighbor and failed miserably and now is in a war of attrition and a stalemate



NotSure said:


> Nope, Polacke, your reply has no topic relevant content.
> 
> By the way: Heute gestohlen, morgen schon in Polen.
> 
> You wannabe german. Or wannabe angloid? When is your next trip to monkey island aka great britain to clean their toilets?


Your posts are that of a spoiled teenager. They make no sense, and turn into abusive rants. I didn't know if Putin was losing or not but every time I ready our random choice of abuse , I know that Putin is getting is losing . You can't change that so you come here , vent, and mess up an otherwise important exchange of views.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> There is a blood bath going on in kherson where thousands of Ukrainian soldiers trapped are being butchered :/


Well if what you say is true, than Ukraine has run out of men, and this war will be over tomorrow, and we go back to world like it was before, except Russia having another country. Tomorrow will be a new day.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NotSure

So how is the Kherson offensive going? It was planned by Nato, USA and GB to be precise, the best "military men" in the world or maybe even in the whole alpha quadrant. And Ukrops were used as the cannon fodder.

Why are are our military men like @jhungary so quiet about it? Or the plan to capture the Zaporizhzhya NPP?



aviator_fan said:


> Your posts are that of a spoiled teenager. They make no sense, and turn into abusive rants. I didn't know if Putin was losing or not but every time I ready our random choice of abuse , I know that Putin is getting is losing . You can't change that so you come here , vent, and mess up an otherwise important exchange of views.


That was a personal conversation between me, a German/Russian, and a Polack. Don't interfere with things you don't understand. And i don't interfere with your daily drama between you Pakistani and the Indians here. It's like half of the content here in the forum is about this.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565949671863894017

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

This war will be the war with most media coverage.


----------



## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> can you tell us how those events impacted the war in any consequential ways? it didnt! the kiev move was a lure and distraction, which Ukraine fell for....or Russian military changed its mind/plans/strategy..SO WHAT?


Are you dimwitted?

Those events changed this from a week long conflict where they would occupy Kiev and oust Zelenski to install a pro-russian puppet, to year+ conflict bleeding the russian army dry. 



925boy said:


> no that's what you're doing, saying it proves you projecting. smh



Keep sniffing that copium



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565949671863894017


Let me know when they capture a panzerhaubitze. The donations of these ypr were actually almost embarrassing.

In 2004 we were already looking for replacements because they were deemed obsolete and at end technical life.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

ZeGerman said:


> Are you dimwitted?
> 
> Those events changed this from a week long conflict where they would occupy Kiev and oust Zelenski to install a pro-russian puppet, to year+ conflict bleeding the russian army dry.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep sniffing that copium
> 
> 
> Let me know when they capture a panzerhaubitze. The donations of these ypr were actually almost embarrassing.
> 
> In 2004 we were already looking for replacements because they were deemed obsolete and at end technical life.



Actually pro Russians can't accept the fact this invasion was an entire failure since day one forcing the Russians to revise down their entire objectives on a weekly basis. The "feint" was only a justification for their trash performance on the ground,if this was a feint they wouldn't have sent their elite armored and VDV divisions to the slaughterhouse in Kyiv.

Meanwhile the reality is Russia can no longer conduct major offensives in Ukraine,are on the defensive on many fronts,advanced only few hundred meters in the entire month of August and captured half of a village in the Donbass.

Of course it is shocking for people who swallowed Russia's propaganda about how strong their armed forces are,now that they are faced with reality,they can't believe it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565609142491963393
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565609142491963393
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565894998415085569



LMAO the last video was a Russian ammo depot destroyed few months ago already,seems like Russians are getting desperate like showing old videos or showing Ukrainian videos as Russians,pretty pathetic.


Meanwhile ;



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565975637369556993


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565973083651031045


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565985401571008513

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1565983471226556416?s=20&t=ayzEGlHCwwL40CoVvV1YjA


https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1565984811478548480?s=20&t=ayzEGlHCwwL40CoVvV1YjA


https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1565981584792199170?s=20&t=ayzEGlHCwwL40CoVvV1YjA


https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1565986608003817472?s=20&t=7cwKxzJ8dQ9VZggPtEDaig


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566010742217777152

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> That was a personal conversation between me, a German/Russian, and a Polack.


"German/Russian" lol Decide who you are 

German interests are definitely not with Russia, just "the Polacks", as you nicely said, as well Czechs etc are pooling more weight now, that the Russians. Hell, even small Hungary is more important economically. The current German policy is pragmatically reflecting this.


----------



## Ali_Baba

*UK - Latest Defence Intelligence update on the situation in Ukraine - 3 September 2022 *



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565939458867871746


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566010742217777152



The integration of HARM onto the Mig29 has changed things into Ukraines favour by some distance - Russians cannot put up a SAM shield and hide behind it now. Their SAMs are being hunted.

There is still the issue of the limited number of airframes that Ukraine has in her airforce and ongoing attrition of assets, and they are proving to be difficut to suppliment with new assets right now.

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## Primus

Ali_Baba said:


> *UK - Latest Defence Intelligence update on the situation in Ukraine - 3 September 2022 *
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565939458867871746
> 
> 
> The integration of HARM onto the Mig29 has changed things into Ukraines favour by some distance - Russians cannot put up a SAM shield and hide behind it now. Their SAMs are being hunted.
> 
> There is still the issue of the limited number of airframes that Ukraine has in her airforce and ongoing attrition of assets, and they are proving to be difficut to suppliment with new assets right now.


SAMs were being hunted by TB2 before the HARMs integration on the Mig29.


----------



## nangyale

Ali_Baba said:


> The integration of HARM onto the Mig29 has changed things into Ukraines favour by some distance - Russians cannot put up a SAM shield and hide behind it now. Their SAMs are being hunted.
> 
> There is still the issue of the limited number of airframes that Ukraine has in her airforce and ongoing attrition of assets, and they are proving to be difficut to suppliment with new assets right now.


This is all cosmetic. As soon as a Mig29 gets airborne it becomes a target.

Without a functioning airwing capable of atleast getting local air superiority this war is a lost cause for Ukraine. 

The west is only achieving to prolong this conflict at the cost of tens of thousands of Ukraine's young and the destruction of its infrastructure worth billions.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566029127773200387


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566014883807756288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566033587073318913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566033173347287045

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566005037859479552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566001739031056384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565999430439927821

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## jhungary

dbc said:


> the hilarious part is that he's goading me to pick up arms and fight for Ukraine while he cools his heals in Germany watching his comrades perish in droves while avoiding a return to his beloved mother Russia. Where he knows he'll likely be drafted , forced into a conscript uniform and sent to die or steal washing machines in Ukaraine.


Don't forget toilet seat bro.......

That's what Russian is dying for.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565998616870789121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565996981796880386

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565995696356048896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565993145518678021


jhungary said:


> That's what Russian is dying for.



Russians fight to protect Russian speakers in Donbas from Kiev artillery since 2014. What are YOU fighting for?

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> So how is the Kherson offensive going? It was planned by Nato, USA and GB to be precise, the best "military men" in the world or maybe even in the whole alpha quadrant. And Ukrops were used as the cannon fodder.
> 
> Why are are our military men like @jhungary so quiet about it? Or the plan to capture the Zaporizhzhya NPP?
> 
> 
> That was a personal conversation between me, a German/Russian, and a Polack. Don't interfere with things you don't understand. And i don't interfere with your daily drama between you Pakistani and the Indians here. It's like half of the content here in the forum is about this.


You do know I just posted a Progress Map from the UK MOD charting the Kherson Offensive like 8 hours ago.







Ukrainian has taken roughly 300 square kilometres from the Russian in the south (The shaded yellow line) of land in the last 3 days, more than the entire progress for Russia in the last two month.

I posted like every day about the progress of the Kherson Offensive, you choose to watch p0rn is not my issue here.

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## jhungary

dbc said:


> the hilarious part is that he's goading me to pick up arms and fight for Ukraine while he cools his heals in Germany watching his comrades perish in droves while avoiding a return to his beloved mother Russia. Where he knows he'll likely be drafted , forced into a conscript uniform and sent to die or steal washing machines in Ukaraine.


That guy remind me of a dude in this forum before I went to Ukraine in April to train a rotation of TDF. That guy claim he is an Indian Russian, but then in Feb he said he is an Indian. And all he put up is a flag of Russia.....

That guy is just a baboon, I stopped interact with him since he can't even tell me what the 4 corner of a M777 looks like and in his world, Russian can't make Mock up (Like they did with that TB-2 with a very bad job a while back) I mean that guy is not any sort of technical guy, I wouldn't care about what he had to say, just laugh and move on.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566030049169530881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565988674113835009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566046687021469699

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566041648429256704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566041520167436288

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

nangyale said:


> This is all cosmetic. As soon as a Mig29 gets airborne it becomes a target.
> 
> Without a functioning airwing capable of atleast getting local air superiority this war is a lost cause for Ukraine.
> 
> The west is only achieving to prolong this conflict at the cost of tens of thousands of Ukraine's young and the destruction of its infrastructure worth billions.



MiG-29 has very bad servicing. Engine is trashed after only a dozen missions. Also no match for Su-35 and gets shot down a lot.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566040070972473345


----------



## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Mavic 3 recon drone
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563608646222655489
> RPG-30 rocket launcher
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T-62 M tank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pantsir mobile air defense


Would the retarded Russians fare better against Javelins if those cope cages had ERA on them?


----------



## Vergennes

LMAO this is gold comedy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566038422816526338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566036414084546560

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> Would the retarded Russians fare better against Javelins if those cope cages had ERA on them?



Javelin is a heat seeking missile. The blanket on the tank has low heat signature. Javelin has hard time locking on the blanket.


----------



## Ali_Baba

*Russia wipes out its own Special Forces Unit in battle.*









Russians wipe out OWN special force unit in friendly fire fiasco


RUSSIAN commanders were left reeling after they inadvertently wiped out one of their prized special force units in a friendly fire fiasco.




www.express.co.uk

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> *Russia wipes out its own Special Forces Unit in battle.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians wipe out OWN special force unit in friendly fire fiasco
> 
> 
> RUSSIAN commanders were left reeling after they inadvertently wiped out one of their prized special force units in a friendly fire fiasco.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk



Fake news. British propaganda.

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## Hack-Hook

oberschlesier said:


> Well, Russia annected part of Ukraine, what were you expecting Ukraine to do?


they annexed part of Ukraine after Euro Maidan

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Kiev started the war in 2014.


Wake up, Russia has no say in Ukraine matters can’t you just accept that?


----------



## 925boy

oberschlesier said:


> Well, Russia annected part of Ukraine, what were you expecting Ukraine to do?


Russia annexed parts of ukraine BECAUSE Ukraine had been oppressing and suppressing Russian speakers in Ukraine...Russia stepped in to protect those Russian speakers- your order of understanding has dyslexia.

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## oberschlesier

925boy said:


> Russia annexed parts of ukraine BECAUSE Ukraine had been oppressing and suppressing Russian speakers in Ukraine...Russia stepped in to protect those Russian speakers- your order of understanding has dyslexia.


bla bla. 
"Russia annexed parts of ukraine" this is enough,


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566058522101653507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566073318419189760


----------



## oberschlesier

Hack-Hook said:


> they annexed part of Ukraine after Euro Maidan


yes, but did annexed it. This the Problem. Does not matter "bla bla" why.
You just dont do it, it`s stealing.

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## dbc

925boy said:


> Russia annexed parts of ukraine BECAUSE Ukraine had been oppressing and suppressing Russian speakers in Ukraine...Russia stepped in to protect those Russian speakers- your order of understanding has dyslexia.



weird reasoning, does France have the right to invade England to protect French speakers in England?

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## 925boy

dbc said:


> weird reasoning, does France have the right to invade England to protect French speakers in England?


1.French citizens AREN't being oppressed in UK as a matter of fact. so this a fake hypothetical, which cant work, or be considered seriously, because in the real world, Russian speakers in Ukraine were and are getting abused and shelled and killed.
2. False equivalence logic - Russia is the regional hegemon in its region, but France nor England is, so NO, that logic doesnt apply. Bettter logic is Iran stepping in in its region to protect Shiites. Next point?

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## Hack-Hook

oberschlesier said:


> yes, but did annexed it. This the Problem. Does not matter "bla bla" why.
> You just dont do it, it`s stealing.


we were talking about who started it . it started after 2014 specially when in ukraine they banned Russian language in Russian speaking areas 
Problem with Crimea is that it was not actually part of Ukraine , an Ukrainian president of USSR separated it from Russia and added it to Ukraine .
its like Belgium ban Dutch or French


----------



## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> Russia annexed parts of ukraine BECAUSE Ukraine had been oppressing and suppressing Russian speakers in Ukraine...Russia stepped in to protect those Russian speakers- your order of understanding has dyslexia.


Nonsense




__





Loading…






euvsdisinfo.eu





There were some minor issues nowhere near justifying annexing part of anothers country.

I mean christian minorities in muslim world have it worse then those donbass russians. So i suppose you support we annex everything?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566072209642340352


----------



## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> Nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> euvsdisinfo.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were some minor issues nowhere near justifying annexing part of anothers country.
> 
> I mean christian minorities in muslim world have it worse then those donbass russians. So i suppose you support we annex everything?


Russia didn't annex donbas , Donetsk and luhansk declared independence after their language declared illegal
Russia annexed Crimea , and the problem with crimea come back to some Stalin bad policy .


----------



## 925boy

ZeGerman said:


> Nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> euvsdisinfo.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were some minor issues nowhere near justifying annexing part of anothers country.


AND Integrating into NATO justified it for sure, especially in Russia's eyes. NATO cowards have their Afghanistan part II in Ukraine. loser idiots destined to get drained for jumping on America's ego imperialist train. sometimes stupidity is costly you know that right? thats what happened to EU in Ukraine. And now there is no way to turn the tide against Russia..or you tihnk there is? id love to hear how u think that woujld happen

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## dbc

925boy said:


> 1.French citizens AREN't being oppressed in UK as a matter of fact. so this a fake hypothetical, which cant work, or be considered seriously, because in the real world, Russian speakers in Ukraine were and are getting abused and shelled and killed.
> 2. False equivalence logic - Russia is the regional hegemon in its region, but France nor England is, so NO, that logic doesnt apply. Bettter logic is Iran stepping in in its region to protect Shiites. Next point?


well the Russian speakers in Ukraine weren't Russian citizens back then - try harder.

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## 925boy

oberschlesier said:


> bla bla.
> "Russia annexed parts of ukraine" this is enough,


why did lower Poland start getting angry with Germany because of the Ukraine war? y'all got some form of renewed PTSD from WW 2 or something?



dbc said:


> well the Russian speakers in Ukraine weren't Russian citizens back then - try harder.


They didnt have to be citizens....Russia can write the rules in its backyard, JUST LIKE AMERICA DOES. you're the one who needs to try harder.

its obvious ur in denial, and i understand and ac cept these issues better than u do, stop competing where ur not good enuf on the subject.



dbc said:


> well the Russian speakers in Ukraine weren't Russian citizens back then - try harder.


ALLSOOO, u need to really should keep quiet on this subject tbh, why? FOR ALL YOUR TOUGH TALK, all you nato cowards have done is supply weapons and money - AFHANISTAN LOSERS MOVIE PART II happening in Ukraine now fopr you guys, just soon after Afghanistan war ended...y'all just cant stop losing wars. lmao

ACtion speaks louder than your pathetic PDF words- on the battlefield, NATO is a toothless octogenarian.

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## oberschlesier

925boy said:


> why did lower Poland start getting angry with Germany because of the Ukraine war? y'all got some form of renewed PTSD from WW 2 or something?


getting angry with Germany ? Hehe, it`s more like funny, that some German politicians still believe you can buy gas from Russia on normal terms. It seems to over, good.


----------



## dbc

925boy said:


> why did lower Poland start getting angry with Germany because of the Ukraine war? y'all got some form of renewed PTSD from WW 2 or something?
> 
> 
> They didnt have to be citizens....Russia can write the rules in its backyard, JUST LIKE AMERICA DOES. you're the one who needs to try harder.
> 
> its obvious ur in denial, and i understand and ac cept these issues better than u do, stop competing where ur not good enuf on the subject.
> 
> 
> ALLSOOO, u need to really should keep quiet on this subject tbh, why? FOR ALL YOUR TOUGH TALK, all you nato cowards have done is supply weapons and money - AFHANISTAN LOSERS MOVIE PART II happening in Ukraine now fopr you guys, just soon after Afghanistan war ended...y'all just cant stop losing wars. lmao
> 
> ACtion speaks louder than your pathetic PDF words- on the battlefield, NATO is a toothless octogenarian.



Russia writing rules? hilarious. Russia imposes itself over tiny Belarus, that's the extent of their power. NATO toothless, is that why it's expanding? Why are countries risking its own survival to join a toothless 'octogenarian'?


----------



## oberschlesier

Hack-Hook said:


> we were talking about who started it . it started after 2014 specially when in ukraine they banned Russian language in Russian speaking areas
> Problem with Crimea is that it was not actually part of Ukraine , an Ukrainian president of USSR separated it from Russia and added it to Ukraine .
> its like Belgium ban Dutch or French


bla bla
As you said, Russia has annexed part of Ukraine, did you expect any Goverment in Kiev, does not matter the option to be happy about this?


----------



## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> euvsdisinfo.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were some minor issues nowhere near justifying annexing part of anothers country.
> 
> I mean christian minorities in muslim world have it worse then those donbass russians. So i suppose you support we annex everything?


That’s why Russian tourists are banned in Europe. Great risk they act as fifth column and found Donbas republic everywhere.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566083215139508226

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566090905936855045


----------



## jhungary

Tomnya Balka taken by AFU according to Russian Telegram and Media as of Sept 2


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565521506750255104
Tomnya Balka is a village along T-1501, West of Kherson. 15.4 Miles from Kherson City Center...

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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> Tomnya Balka taken by AFU according to Russian Telegram and Media as of Sept 2
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565521506750255104
> Tomnya Balka is a village along T-1501, West of Kherson. 15.4 Miles from Kherson City Center...
> 
> View attachment 875815



Progress - slow - grinding progress - but progress nonetheless.

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## Viet

Sergei Lavrov, the inventor of “new democratic world order” threatens Moldavia with military action, should the country do any harms to Russia troops in Moldavia.

Moldavia considers Russian troops as illegal and demands the withdrawal.









Moldova summons Russian diplomat over Lavrov threat


Moldova’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs summoned the interim chargé d'affaires of the Russian Federation in Chisinau on September 1 to explain the ...




www.bne.eu


----------



## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Progress - slow - grinding progress - but progress nonetheless.


If this is true, it is a very big progress.

Counter Offensive like that usually expect 1-5km advance a day. If Ukraine Forces really taken Tomnya Balka, that mean they had advanced 30km from the starting point, which means they had advanced 10km a day. 

I would have expected the Ukrainian aren't going to close the ring around Kherson at least until end of September or Early October but if this news is true, their progress is faster than I thought.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566090777201098752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566071440331669510

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566063135118745602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566058961962418176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566054257979277315

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566078990548455424

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566070319018024963


----------



## notorious_eagle

Viet said:


> Sergei Lavrov, the inventor of “new democratic world order” threatens Moldavia with military action, should the country do any harms to Russia troops in Moldavia.
> 
> Moldavia considers Russian troops as illegal and demands the withdrawal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moldova summons Russian diplomat over Lavrov threat
> 
> 
> Moldova’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs summoned the interim chargé d'affaires of the Russian Federation in Chisinau on September 1 to explain the ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bne.eu


Threaten them with WHAT? 

Russia is a spent military force. They have very limited resources left to conduct offensive operations inside Ukraine, let alone carry out simultaneous offensives inside Moldova. The myth of Russian Armed Forces and their superiority has been broken. NATO is essentially forcing the Russians to expend its best troops and best equipment in NATO, essentially leaving Russia with a devastated military when the dust settles.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

notorious_eagle said:


> Threaten them with WHAT?
> 
> Russia is a spent military force. They have very limited resources left to conduct offensive operations inside Ukraine, let alone carry out simultaneous offensives inside Moldova. The myth of Russian Armed Forces and their superiority has been broken. NATO is essentially forcing the Russians to expend its best troops and best equipment in NATO, essentially leaving Russia with a devastated military when the dust settles.



If need be the Chinese army will get involved in Europe. China has 1.4 billion population. Hell, even the American army don't dare fight Chinese army.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566098394459918336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566099497763094533

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566078297313779715

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566105979225362434

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SIPRA

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566078297313779715
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566105979225362434



As the time goes; many such protests would erupt in whole of the Europe.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

SIPRA said:


> As the time goes; many such protests would erupt in whole of the Europe.



They have lost business profit because of sanction. What is their profit has been snatched up by the Chinese. Their standard of living has gone down. No surprise they are fed up with the first forever war in human history.


----------



## Viet

notorious_eagle said:


> Threaten them with WHAT?
> 
> Russia is a spent military force. They have very limited resources left to conduct offensive operations inside Ukraine, let alone carry out simultaneous offensives inside Moldova. The myth of Russian Armed Forces and their superiority has been broken. NATO is essentially forcing the Russians to expend its best troops and best equipment in NATO, essentially leaving Russia with a devastated military when the dust settles.


Russia is finished. However a wounded dog is dangerous.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566096300503957504

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## monitor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566078297313779715
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566105979225362434





SIPRA said:


> As the time goes; many such protests would erupt in whole of the Europe.



Europeans join the war thinking it Will be a limited war . with all out support they can stop Russian aggression. But as war is lingering with both sides without clear victory war going to longer. When Europeans will have to pay more utility bill their support going to decrease. We will see more this kind protest in coming days.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566086952545288195

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566089042827137026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566066093219000321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566062964658110464


----------



## Ali_Baba

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If need be the Chinese army will get involved in Europe. China has 1.4 billion population. Hell, even the American army don't dare fight Chinese army.



Rubbish!!!!


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566027946107830272

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Steady progress for Ukrainian forces near Kherson.


----------



## aziqbal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565907739343261696

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## F-22Raptor

aziqbal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565907739343261696



You were saying 3 weeks ago Russian forces had taken Bakhmut. Your throwing s**t against the wall hoping it sticks.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566124623313379330

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566128866069987329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566124438562775040
TV guided missiles used for bombing Ukrainian pontoon bridges


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566098394459918336


F-22Raptor said:


> You were saying 3 weeks ago Russian forces had taken Bakhmut. Your throwing s**t against the wall hoping it sticks.



And Ukrainians have yet to take a single Russian village despite boasting they can take Moscow within a week. How's it working out for Ukrainians big mouth?

Reactions: Love Love:
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## aziqbal

F-22Raptor said:


> You were saying 3 weeks ago Russian forces had taken Bakhmut. Your throwing s**t against the wall hoping it sticks.



I have said it many times and will say it again 

I have no dog in this fight 

as long as US and Russia are fighting its weakening both nations and this will allow for a multi polar World which will benefit rest of the World like Africa, Middle East and Asia 

Europeans have a history of killing each other, when not killing each other they are killing poorer nations 

so its better they keep at each other and rest of nations can make up some time and gain some progress on economy and technology 

if China joins in even better it will weaken everyone at the top who always bully the smaller nations 

nations like Pakistan, Iran and Turkey and Malaysia can then advanced further ahead 

2 bullies fighting is always good to see so I take a total neutral approach

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566135999851290630

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566120243902160897


----------



## The SC




----------



## The SC




----------



## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> I have said it many times and will say it again
> 
> I have no dog in this fight
> 
> as long as US and Russia are fighting its weakening both nations and this will allow for a multi polar World which will benefit rest of the World like Africa, Middle East and Asia
> 
> Europeans have a history of killing each other, when not killing each other they are killing poorer nations
> 
> so its better they keep at each other and rest of nations can make up some time and gain some progress on economy and technology
> 
> if China joins in even better it will weaken everyone at the top who always bully the smaller nations
> 
> nations like Pakistan, Iran and Turkey and Malaysia can then advanced further ahead
> 
> 2 bullies fighting is always good to see so I take a total neutral approach


He didn't say you have dog in this fight, he said your "Prediction" is way off.

Also, US is not in this fight, and this fight, regardless of outcome will put US is a much better position because even if Russia win outright over Ukraine. What US loses is 40 billion, but what Russian loss is their economy, their security integrity as NATO being expanded. Russia will become a non-factor in world stage. Which means it will give US more power over Europe.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> He didn't say you have dog in this fight, he said your "Prediction" is way off.
> 
> Also, US is not in this fight, and this fight, regardless of outcome will put US is a much better position because even if Russia win outright over Ukraine. What US loses is 40 billion, but what Russian loss is their economy, their security integrity as NATO being expanded. Russia will become a non-factor in world stage. Which means it will give US more power over Europe.



Russia wanted to be friend with the West. The US said no. So now Russia is a Chinese vassal. Russia is much more powerful compared to Ukraine. 4 times the population. The US is being dumb. Choosing Ukraine over Russia.

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## jhungary

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia wanted to be friend with the West. The US said no. So now Russia is a Chinese vassal. Russia is much more powerful compared to Ukraine. 4 times the population. The US is being dumb. Choosing Ukraine over Russia.


Can you stop quoting me again? 

I am not interested in Indulging your fantasy.

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> He didn't say you have dog in this fight, he said your "Prediction" is way off.
> 
> Also, US is not in this fight, and this fight, regardless of outcome will put US is a much better position because even if Russia win outright over Ukraine. What US loses is 40 billion, but what Russian loss is their economy, their security integrity as NATO being expanded. Russia will become a non-factor in world stage. Which means it will give US more power over Europe.



The US is a clear winner. Destroying Russia economically and militarily for pennies and not losing a single soldier. And what has been given to Ukraine will easily be replaced over the next couple years. 

Stronger NATO, Europe more aligned with the US, etc

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566148435828523010


F-22Raptor said:


> The US is a clear winner. Destroying Russia economically and militarily for pennies and not losing a single soldier. And what has been given to Ukraine will easily be replaced over the next couple years.
> 
> Stronger NATO, Europe more aligned with the US, etc



Irrelevant. The US is rotting from within. By 2050 whites will be minority in the US and the US be like Mexico or Brazil or Argentina or Egypt or South Africa.

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> The US is a clear winner. Destroying Russia economically and militarily for pennies and not losing a single soldier. And what has been given to Ukraine will easily be replaced over the next couple years.
> 
> Stronger NATO, Europe more aligned with the US, etc


Yeah, there are no way Russia can win this war in a strategic point of view. What it had done is to make sure one of Russia neighbour is going to be armed to the teeth and hated the Russian for the next 100 or so years. Not a very good prospect for Russian if you ask me.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565794671770869760

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> The US is a clear winner. Destroying Russia economically and militarily for pennies and not losing a single soldier. And what has been given to Ukraine will easily be replaced over the next couple years.
> 
> Stronger NATO, Europe more aligned with the US, etc


Yeah like i stated back in first thread. Geopolitically, winners here are USA and China. 

Its a disaster for russia. The myth of near peer competitor is shattered, Nato strengthened, ties to their biggest customers (europe) ruined, and even ukraine is now driven completely out of their influence into the arms of the west. Other former soviet nations will watch and make their conclusions as wel (kazachstan already is) and their economy will be shattered once the high energy prices tone down.


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## aziqbal

jhungary said:


> He didn't say you have dog in this fight, he said your "Prediction" is way off.
> 
> Also, US is not in this fight, and this fight, regardless of outcome will put US is a much better position because even if Russia win outright over Ukraine. What US loses is 40 billion, but what Russian loss is their economy, their security integrity as NATO being expanded. Russia will become a non-factor in world stage. Which means it will give US more power over Europe.



you do realise that the Russian gas and oil which is being refined in China is making its way back into the EU?

Russia is making money the middle man China is making money and Russian economy is anything but declining 

actually since the war its gone up ! 

US just made Russia the most important nation on earth by end for his winter 

US has a history making gigantic blunders like taking out Taliban and Saddam giving free rain to Iran to open up proxies then trying to contain Iran and failing 

then fighting Russia and its back fired 

US is the most stupid nation on plant earth and the Russians are total experts

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## Iron Shrappenel

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566135999851290630
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566120243902160897


Illuminati confirmed 😂

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566082323002572800

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566165634723074051

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566154394843987968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566162249047314434

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566175753833779204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566175945546993667


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566082323002572800



1000 tanks that Russia lost could be replaced but Russia cannot replace the 192,380 soldiers she lost.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566182210834685958


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566155532469211142

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566180711958290433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566166372069134338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566165635507408896


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## RoadAmerica

So you admi


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> MiG-29 has very bad servicing. Engine is trashed after only a dozen missions. Also no match for Su-35 and gets shot down a lot.


So you admit it’s Russian trash? Finally we’re getting somewhere


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> So you admi
> 
> So you admit it’s Russian trash? Finally we’re getting somewhere



Early 80s Russian jets had poor engines. Modern ones have good engines which have much easier servicing. Su-35 and Su-57 are much better than MiG-29. MiG-29K have much better engines than early 80s MiG-29.

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## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> you do realise that the Russian gas and oil which is being refined in China is making its way back into the EU?
> 
> Russia is making money the middle man China is making money and Russian economy is anything but declining
> 
> actually since the war its gone up !
> 
> US just made Russia the most important nation on earth by end for his winter
> 
> US has a history making gigantic blunders like taking out Taliban and Saddam giving free rain to Iran to open up proxies then trying to contain Iran and failing
> 
> then fighting Russia and its back fired
> 
> US is the most stupid nation on plant earth and the Russians are total experts


You do realise Russia sold EU 150 billion of oil and gas every year before the war, after the war, India and China combine bought around 60 billion, even if China and India keep buying the rate they do, at the end of the year we won't see them buying over 100 billion (The war is 6 months old) So Russia net loss is 50 billion on Oil and Gas. That is why Russia is flaring the excessive gas and burning 10 million worth a day, that would have been the low end of the estimation because Russia is selling China and India at a discount rate. Which mean there are no way Russia is earning close to before they sell to EU than China and India.





__





Russia is burning off millions of dollars in gas every day. Here's why






www.msn.com





The Winner? India, China and US, US sell more oil and petroleum product after EU wean on Russian oil, and India and China resell cheap Russian gas to EU. Russia? They are the biggest loser in this deal.

And lol, as I said, US at most loses money, which is not really a big deal, but Russia have all the things to play here, money, resource, economy, security and national pride, all of those now gone down in drain. Have you seen how much things are cost in Russia lately? If you think EU is bad, try living in Russia at the moment.

On the other hand, this is a no sum game the US is playing, betting the wrong horse? Big F'king deal, again, all they lose is money and we would have lost it somehow when Biden is in charge, in fact, burning those money to F with the Russia is more welcome than burning those money on social agenda and woke issue, don't need to ask me, even the trumpiest hardline Republican welcome Biden spending all those money on Ukraine, you want to know how I know? 95 to 1 approve the bill in a 100-member senate. Go F the Russian I would say, this is probably the best my tax money spend during Biden Presidency...LOL


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566212772576256002


----------



## PakFactor

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566212772576256002



That’s a pretty nice BMW parked.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566245902305607680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566248492921659393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566254805256921088

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## PakAlp

notorious_eagle said:


> Threaten them with WHAT?
> 
> Russia is a spent military force. They have very limited resources left to conduct offensive operations inside Ukraine, let alone carry out simultaneous offensives inside Moldova. The myth of Russian Armed Forces and their superiority has been broken. NATO is essentially forcing the Russians to expend its best troops and best equipment in NATO, essentially leaving Russia with a devastated military when the dust settles.



We have witnessed clearly during the Russian/Ukrainian war that although Russia does have a powerful army but they're not exactly as powerful as we thought them to be. Both Russia and Ukraine have been getting ready for war since 2014 but Russia still got themselves stuck in this war, at first they sent the army to Kiev but found it difficult to take the city, then withdrew and started to concentrate on taking territory in the south east but even that is a stalemate. We must also understand its not Russia v Ukraine but Russia v Ukraine backed and funded by Nato. 
This is very difficult for Russia and it doesn't look they will overtake half of Ukraine.
Where are Russian allies? Nato is openly supporting Ukraine but Russian allies are scared to support Russia. It shows who is the ruling power of the world



jhungary said:


> Yeah, there are no way Russia can win this war in a strategic point of view. What it had done is to make sure one of Russia neighbour is going to be armed to the teeth and hated the Russian for the next 100 or so years. Not a very good prospect for Russian if you ask me.



Looks like that, otherwise Russia would have taken most of the East/south and moving towards Odessa, this would have landlocked Ukraine.

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## Viet

aziqbal said:


> you do realise that the Russian gas and oil which is being refined in China is making its way back into the EU?
> 
> Russia is making money the middle man China is making money and Russian economy is anything but declining
> 
> actually since the war its gone up !
> 
> US just made Russia the most important nation on earth by end for his winter
> 
> US has a history making gigantic blunders like taking out Taliban and Saddam giving free rain to Iran to open up proxies then trying to contain Iran and failing
> 
> then fighting Russia and its back fired
> 
> US is the most stupid nation on plant earth and the Russians are total experts


Russia sells oil to China. China refines, sell it to EU. That makes US, EU poor while Russia to superstar? Is that what you want to tell?
Man, wake up! Putin makes Russia to a failed state. He humiliates his country. A gas station, that’s all. Putin by every assessment is a thief.
He steals Russia resources to make him and his comrades rich. Now he trying to steal Ukraine.


----------



## aviator_fan

NotSure said:


> So how is the Kherson offensive going? It was planned by Nato, USA and GB to be precise, the best "military men" in the world or maybe even in the whole alpha quadrant. And Ukrops were used as the cannon fodder.
> 
> Why are are our military men like @jhungary so quiet about it? Or the plan to capture the Zaporizhzhya NPP?
> 
> 
> That was a personal conversation between me, a German/Russian, and a Polack. Don't interfere with things you don't understand. And i don't interfere with your daily drama between you Pakistani and the Indians here. It's like half of the content here in the forum is about this.


Then use the PM function for your racist rants. A forum for Pakistan Defence is not the place for your lunatic rants against another member. 

Kherson offensive has not stopped or stalled. Why are you worried about that offensive? Your superpower dictator that you are such a fan of thought he would have one country and submit the rest into submission. Instead he has half his army deployed to take over a few territories and importing drones from a third rate nation whose only claim is that its citizens are doing worse under sanctions.

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## Soldier35

Russian troops captured a Dutch YPR-765 tracked armored personnel carrier in Ukraine. The trophy armored personnel carrier visually looks intact, the car is a copy of the American M-113 armored personnel carrier.






Germany will give Ukraine 30 amphibious vehicles M3 Amphibious Rig. The M3 Amphibious Rig is an amphibious vehicle carrying two large deployable aluminum pontoons on its roof to create pontoon crossings. The car entered service with Germany in 1996 and can deploy pontoons immediately on the go. The M3 ferry is equipped with a 343-horsepower Deutz diesel engine, allowing it to reach a speed of 80 km / h on the highway. Two water jets allow the ferry to move through the water at a speed of 14 km/h.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Instead he has half his army deployed to take over a few territories and importing drones from a third rate nation whose only claim is that its citizens are doing worse under sanctions.



Iran is far from third rate country. When Iran was super power Russians were living in mud huts. BTW, Americans cooperate closely with British in military hardware too. Nothing wrong with cooperation with close allies.

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## Viet

Russia dissolves two elite brigades due to high casualties: 22th spenaz brigade, 31th paratrooper brigade. 

- Ukraine general staff 








Das vom ukrainischen Geheimdienst veröffentlichte Foto soll gefallene Fallschirmjäger der 31. Brigade bei Hostomel zeigen.
(Foto: Ukrainische Geheimdienst)

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566276561103454208


Viet said:


> Russia dissolves two elite brigades due to high casualties: 22th spenaz brigade, 31th paratrooper brigade.
> 
> - Ukraine general staff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Das vom ukrainischen Geheimdienst veröffentlichte Foto soll gefallene Fallschirmjäger der 31. Brigade bei Hostomel zeigen.
> (Foto: Ukrainische Geheimdienst)



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. The last Ukrainian will die before the last Russian will die. Russia wins the war by attrition over hundreds or thousands of years.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566276561103454208
> 
> 
> Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. The last Ukrainian will die before the last Russian will die. Russia wins the war by attrition over hundreds or thousands of years.


That’s not a forever war.

Ukraine needs a decisive victory. It needs western tanks to oust the Russians then it can erect a high wall along the border to Russia. Like other East European countries to Russia. what they are doing now. It’s like the former Berlin Wall. High wall with bare wire and automatic guns.
Putin hates the west so it’s better to cut off every ties.
Russians can make holiday in Turkey, Iran, China, North Korea or elsewhere.

Or stay in imprisoned Russia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566313132951232512


Viet said:


> That’s not a forever war.
> 
> Ukraine needs a decisive victory. It needs western tanks to oust the Russians then it can erect a high wall along the border to Russia. Like other East European countries to Russia. what they are doing now. It’s like the former Berlin Wall. High wall with bare wire and automatic guns.
> Putin hates the west so it’s better to cut off every ties.
> Russians can make holiday in Turkey, Iran, China, North Korea or elsewhere.
> 
> Or stay in imprisoned Russia.



Yanks do not want to escalate. If Yanks send Abrams tanks to Ukraine than China send Type 99A2 tanks to Russia. Type 99A2 is better than Abrams.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia didn't annex donbas , Donetsk and luhansk declared independence after their language declared illegal
> Russia annexed Crimea , and the problem with crimea come back to some Stalin bad policy .


You mean Russian infiltrators declared Donetsk and Luhansk independent with the support of the Russian Army.

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## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> Russia dissolves two elite brigades due to high casualties: 22th spenaz brigade, 31th paratrooper brigade.
> 
> - Ukraine general staff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Das vom ukrainischen Geheimdienst veröffentlichte Foto soll gefallene Fallschirmjäger der 31. Brigade bei Hostomel zeigen.
> (Foto: Ukrainische Geheimdienst)


All those dead elite commandos were ofcourse just a cunning diversion to take (already almost undefended) kherson….

For good measure they also kept the diversion going for 4 more weeks after kherson was taken. Just to make sure those ukranians were properly distracted by killing off the russian tip of the spear units

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## Vergennes

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566245902305607680
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566248492921659393
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566254805256921088



Seriously instead of spamming tweets make sure you aren't posting the same or have already been posted by another member,that's the second time you are posting same videos,posting same videos won't make it as 2x.


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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> Seriously instead of spamming tweets make sure you aren't posting the same or have already been posted by another member,that's the second time you are posting same videos,posting same videos won't make it as 2x.


He posted the ypr captured 3 times as well and kees repeating his “forever war” “russia 4 time population” nonsense as well. 

Is his job to crash this thread like the last?

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## Viet

Strong indication Russia sends the new established 3rd Army Corps to Ukraine southern front.
It’s a long way from Mulino, 200 miles east of Moscow.
Make sure that they are welcomed by Ukraine partisans and Himars.








VIA SOCIAL MEDIA

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## Vergennes

Viet said:


> Strong indication Russia sends the new established 3rd Army Corps to Ukraine southern front.
> It’s a long way from Mulino, 200 miles east of Moscow.
> Make sure that they are welcomed by Ukraine partisans and Himars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIA SOCIAL MEDIA



This "3rd army corps" is actually composed of poorly trained and mostly unfit volunteers,what could possibly go wrong ?

what air defence doin?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566347430588829696
Russian reconnaissance group was sent the way back.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566324478866595840

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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> You do know I just posted a Progress Map from the UK MOD charting the Kherson Offensive like 8 hours ago.


UK MOD, lol. Why not the Ukr. MOD directly? Oh wait, it's basically the same without much connection to the reality. Are you really that stupid to give such an answer?

Keep parroting your own propaganda. You obviously need it, because you think wars are won in the propaganda.

But don't forget to larp the "military man".

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## NotSure

dbc said:


> the hilarious part is that he's goading me to pick up arms and fight for Ukraine while he cools his heals in Germany watching his comrades perish in droves while avoiding a return to his beloved mother Russia. Where he knows he'll likely be drafted , forced into a conscript uniform and sent to die or steal washing machines in Ukaraine.


Genius, i live 30 years in germany and have german roots going back to 1778. Don't talk about things you don't understand. The only reason to leave this country permanently is, because you angloids have turned it into a shithole in the nearly 80 years of occupation. 

And i don't need to go and fight myself, the Russian military is doing pretty fine. With a smaller force they destroyed an army in the size of the british armed forces, supported by the whole Nato.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You mean Russian infiltrators declared Donetsk and Luhansk independent with the support of the Russian Army.


did they really entered war then ? just some support , just like what some other countries do.

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> This "3rd army corps" is actually composed of poorly trained and mostly unfit volunteers,what could possibly go wrong ?
> 
> what air defence doin?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566347430588829696
> Russian reconnaissance group was sent the way back.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566324478866595840


yes volunteers with some from old men, drug addicts, criminals but they are still very dangerous with Russian tanks. hey…Putin needs them. motivation is money not Nazi hunting.
$5,000 per month is not too bad.
Or $166 per day, that’s more than Russia monthly minimum wage
That means every day they survive in Ukraine matters.


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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> UK MOD, lol. Why not the Ukr. MOD directly? Oh wait, it's basically the same without much connection to the reality. Are you really that stupid to give such an answer?
> 
> Keep parroting your own propaganda. You obviously need it, because you think wars are won in the propaganda.
> 
> But don't forget to larp the "military man".


I don't think I will reply to you anymore.

Right now, you are just ranting, if Russia is doing what you think they are doing, you wouldn't be ranting here, there isn't really a point of discussion here, I will do both of us a favor and save some bandwidth on this forum. 

I mean, I could have gone into a name calling match with you, but then why bother?? 

Also, come back to me when this exact forum appreciates your input and give you some title before you challenge mine, it's made you look foolish, not smart.

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## MeFishToo

Source (War in Ukraine)

Dont mind the date. Its from sept. 3.





Center from the bridgehead. Attack is stalled, mainly because of russian air attacks. Ukraine is widening the bridgehead.





North: special forces brigade encircled and the ukrainians found a weak point in the eastern part of the northern front.

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## jhungary

PakAlp said:


> Looks like that, otherwise Russia would have taken most of the East/south and moving towards Odessa, this would have landlocked Ukraine.



They squandered that chance at the beginning of the war. Now it would be considered lucky if Russia did not lose Kerson in the next months. I don't like the timing the Ukrainian launch this offensive, I don't think they have enough force to do what they want to do (Which is take both Kherson and Nova Karkova) but I do understand why they start now, I will say there are 40% change Russia can hold on to Kherson after this. 

They should have forgot about the Kyiv and Northern Front and start a war solely on Eastern and Southern Flank of Ukraine. They got beaten back by Ukraine before May and the entire Northern Front collapsed, had they use those troop in the first hour and attack Odessa either thru Mykolaiv or thru a seaborne invasion, that might have been a different story. Now with Moskva sunk and 2 transports ship to go down with the flag ship, they don't have enough ship to launch a seaborne invasion, many people didn't realise Russia cannot replenish Black Sea fleet because to do that Russian military have to transverse thru Bosporus strait, which was blocked by Turkey at the start of this war as per international treaty, and with both Snake Island and Mykolaiv still in Ukrainian hand, there are virtually no chance Russia can take Odessa and landlock Ukraine.

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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> Right now, you are just ranting, if Russia is doing what you think they are doing, you wouldn't be ranting here, there isn't really a point of discussion here, I will do both of us a favor and save some bandwidth on this forum.
> 
> I mean, I could have gone into a name calling match with you, but then why bother??
> 
> Also, come back to me when this exact forum appreciates your input and give you some title before you challenge mine, it's made you look foolish, not smart.


I asked YOU about the Kherson offensive and YOUR opinion, but you simply copypasted the uk/ukr propaganda like a bot. Why? Because you have no own opinion, like a NPC. So are you really thinking, your replies have any worth for this forum or especially for me? This hubris is so laughable, plus your constant larping the military man, an expert and what not. And no, i do not need any "title".

In the meantime more ukr soldiers will die, because your super nato planners with no understanding of land warfare will f*ck up another offensive. But who gives a crap, they are just cannon fodder for you. Like Lindsey Graham said: We will fight to the last Ukrainian, as long as we send weapons.



jhungary said:


> I don't think I will reply to you anymore.



What a loss.

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> I asked YOU about the Kherson offensive and YOUR opinion, but you simply copypasted the uk/ukr propaganda like a bot. Why? Because you have no own opinion, like a NPC. So are you really thinking, your replies have any worth for this forum or especially for me? This hubris is so laughable, plus your constant larping the military man, an expert and what not. And no, i do not need any "title".
> 
> In the meantime more ukr soldiers will die, because your super nato planners with no understanding of land warfare will f*ck up another offensive. But who gives a crap, they are just cannon fodder for you. Like Lindsey Graham said: We will fight to the last Ukrainian, as long as we send weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> What a loss.


Dude, watch the Post *IMMEDIATE* before your post if you want to know what I think about the Ukrainian counter offensive......

I am done. Good night.



jhungary said:


> They squandered that chance at the beginning of the war. Now it would be considered lucky if Russia did not lose Kerson in the next months. I don't like the timing the Ukrainian launch this offensive, I don't think they have enough force to do what they want to do (Which is take both Kherson and Nova Karkova) but I do understand why they start now, I will say there are 40% change Russia can hold on to Kherson after this.
> 
> They should have forgot about the Kyiv and Northern Front and start a war solely on Eastern and Southern Flank of Ukraine. They got beaten back by Ukraine before May and the entire Northern Front collapsed, had they use those troop in the first hour and attack Odessa either thru Mykolaiv or thru a seaborne invasion, that might have been a different story. Now with Moskva sunk and 2 transports ship to go down with the flag ship, they don't have enough ship to launch a seaborne invasion, many people didn't realise Russia cannot replenish Black Sea fleet because to do that Russian military have to transverse thru Bosporus strait, which was blocked by Turkey at the start of this war as per international treaty, and with both Snake Island and Mykolaiv still in Ukrainian hand, there are virtually no chance Russia can take Odessa and landlock Ukraine.



Another one in this very thread 2 days ago.



jhungary said:


> From the look of it, Ukraine does not want to flatten Kherson, which is what the Russian did to almost every city they captured.
> 
> From the limited information I got, the planning for Ukrainian Armed Forces seems like try to encircle Kherson from 3 routes, T1501 from the West, M14 from the North and E58 from the East. The force converge in Kherson.
> 
> Russian 3rd Army already being pin as all of the bridge behind them are destroyed or damaged. Which mean if Ukraine want, they can just keep firing HIMARS into Kherson and take out as many Russian position they want, but judging from the language both Zelenskyy uses and High Command of AFU, it seems like Ukraine wanted to encircle the Russian force and make them retreat. There is pretty much no way for the Russian to hold indefinitely, to do that, they will need to have at least 1 of the bridge functioning. And once the 3 pronged met and converge in Kherson, that's pretty much game over for the Russian.
> 
> The problem is, to pull that off, Ukraine would need at least 2 times the Russian force, Russia has around 20k troop in the area, Ukraine is very tight lip about their formation, but general estimate usually put Ukrainian force at 5 to 6 Brigade, which is roughly 30,000 men. That is not enough to take on the defender. Unless Russia willingly retreats, this counter offensive is going to take a long time to complete. But all in all, unless Russia somehow manages to fix one of the bridges, I don't see how Russia can hold on indefinitely, they may be able to hold until winter came, but once fighting season start again next year, it will still be the same, their position is going to get pounded by HIMARS. And they would have problem bringing in reinforcement.



And this is from another thread talking about Kherson Offensive. I can excuse you for not finding it, but it would be easy AF to look it up on my profile and posting history.





__





Kherson is Russian land! The first day of school in Kherson sees students waving the Russia flag happily.


Einstein is not the same level as Archimedes, Galileo, Newton. Today, most of the Einstein theories have been proven wrong and invalid.



defence.pk







> First of all, if anyone tell you they have eliminate 200 tanks and 3000 soldier in 4 days, you probably need to treat this news with a serious grain of salt. This is NOT world war 2. If Ukraine did lose 200 tanks and 3000 soldiers in just 4 days, Russian should have, and would have counter attacked and taken more Ukrainian land considering the entire offensive probably would not have 500 tanks and 20,000 soldier with 5 to 6 Brigade, Russia should be at Mykolaiv by now if the Ukrainian had taken those loss.
> 
> Second of all, it does not really take a military genius to see Ukraine is playing the long game, and from a Trained Military Officer perspective, the way Ukrainian attack along the line of Russian Ground Line of Communication (The Bridges, The Ammo dumps and HQ/Communication), it shows Ukraine DO NOT want a frontal attack on Kherson, instead the Ukrainian wanted to cut off Russian line of retreat and threaten Russian rear, not saying the Ukrainian will be able to do that or not, that's depends on whether or not the Ukrainian can take E58 and cut off Russian Position in Kherson from Crimea, if they can do that, then it's game over or Russia, but that did show Ukraine is not going to have a fixed assault on a static front, which mean the 200 tanks and 3000 soldiers loss highly likely a myth.
> 
> Thirdly, Russian media themselves had admitted that they had lose several positions, albeit they said they loss those position in exchange with the aforementioned Ukrainian Casualty. Amongst those Russian admitted losing are 2 very important cities are *Tomyna Balka* and *Velyka Kostromka*, both are essential for Russia to hold Kherson. Tomyna Balka overlook T-1501 highway, it basically the entrant of Kherson City from the West, losing Tomyna Balka means they have lost the front door and the next step on Ukrainian agenda would be Bilozerka, which literally on the outskirt of Kherson City. Losing Velyka Kostromka means losing access to P47 Highway, which basically serve 2 purposes for Ukraine. 1. It gives them a clear run to Nova Karkova, where the hydroelectric dam was and where it feed Crimea fresh water. 2. It P47 continue with M14, which is the other axis of Ukrainian advance, IF the Ukrainian can come down from P47 and E58 and link up with M14, that basically serve as Blocking Position to Kherson. Which mean Russia access to the rear will be blocked off.



I mean again, if you rather watch p0rn and didn't even know I have made several comment on the current counter offensive, that's not my problem dude. I said this like 4 posts ago.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566362725005070337


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566379306581983232

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> They squandered that chance at the beginning of the war. Now it would be considered lucky if Russia did not lose Kerson in the next months. I don't like the timing the Ukrainian launch this offensive, I don't think they have enough force to do what they want to do (Which is take both Kherson and Nova Karkova) but I do understand why they start now, I will say there are 40% change Russia can hold on to Kherson after this.
> 
> They should have forgot about the Kyiv and Northern Front and start a war solely on Eastern and Southern Flank of Ukraine. They got beaten back by Ukraine before May and the entire Northern Front collapsed, had they use those troop in the first hour and attack Odessa either thru Mykolaiv or thru a seaborne invasion, that might have been a different story. Now with Moskva sunk and 2 transports ship to go down with the flag ship, they don't have enough ship to launch a seaborne invasion, many people didn't realise Russia cannot replenish Black Sea fleet because to do that Russian military have to transverse thru Bosporus strait, which was blocked by Turkey at the start of this war as per international treaty, and with both Snake Island and Mykolaiv still in Ukrainian hand, there are virtually no chance Russia can take Odessa and landlock Ukraine.




Russia is never taking Odessa. The Russian bootlickers should forget that nonsense.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> They squandered that chance at the beginning of the war. Now it would be considered lucky if Russia did not lose Kerson in the next months. I don't like the timing the Ukrainian launch this offensive, I don't think they have enough force to do what they want to do (Which is take both Kherson and Nova Karkova) but I do understand why they start now, I will say there are 40% change Russia can hold on to Kherson after this.
> 
> They should have forgot about the Kyiv and Northern Front and start a war solely on Eastern and Southern Flank of Ukraine. They got beaten back by Ukraine before May and the entire Northern Front collapsed, had they use those troop in the first hour and attack Odessa either thru Mykolaiv or thru a seaborne invasion, that might have been a different story. Now with Moskva sunk and 2 transports ship to go down with the flag ship, they don't have enough ship to launch a seaborne invasion, many people didn't realise Russia cannot replenish Black Sea fleet because to do that Russian military have to transverse thru Bosporus strait, which was blocked by Turkey at the start of this war as per international treaty, and with both Snake Island and Mykolaiv still in Ukrainian hand, there are virtually no chance Russia can take Odessa and landlock Ukraine.



I agree - a bit early to launch this offensive, but i think there is some internal pressure within Ukraine to do this but i think it is more to do with external pressure - ie the need to demonstrate that Ukraine can launch and execute offensive operations to reclaim land and liberate cities. If Ukraine can reclaim Kherson then they can make the pitch for more funding/weapons to liberate other areas, If Ukraine cannot reclaim Kherson - then Ukraines partners may force Ukraine to politically accept the status quo or negiotate their land away etc. Russia understands this also, and that is why it has turned off the gas permanently, hoping the likes of France/Germany not being able to withstand their internal pressure and force them to reduce weapons supplies and financial support so that this offensive fails. 

The only ones with real backbone to support Ukraine are the UK and the USA...

The dimensions of this war at a tactical military level, but also strategic level politically.

Ukraine has a lot riding on this offensive being successful and seen as being successful.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566396006786285572

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Daylamite Warrior

NotSure said:


> I asked YOU about the Kherson offensive and YOUR opinion, but you simply copypasted the uk/ukr propaganda like a bot. Why? Because you have no own opinion, like a NPC. So are you really thinking, your replies have any worth for this forum or especially for me? This hubris is so laughable, plus your constant larping the military man, an expert and what not. And no, i do not need any "title".
> 
> In the meantime more ukr soldiers will die, because your super nato planners with no understanding of land warfare will f*ck up another offensive. But who gives a crap, they are just cannon fodder for you. Like Lindsey Graham said: We will fight to the last Ukrainian, as long as we send weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> What a loss.



Give him hell bro!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566396097077075970

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## Vergennes

Russian VDV at the forefront of Ukrainian counter offensive are paying a large price over the recent days.



Spoiler: graphic


----------



## notorious_eagle

PakAlp said:


> We have witnessed clearly during the Russian/Ukrainian war that although Russia does have a powerful army but they're not exactly as powerful as we thought them to be. Both Russia and Ukraine have been getting ready for war since 2014 but Russia still got themselves stuck in this war, at first they sent the army to Kiev but found it difficult to take the city, then withdrew and started to concentrate on taking territory in the south east but even that is a stalemate. We must also understand its not Russia v Ukraine but Russia v Ukraine backed and funded by Nato.
> This is very difficult for Russia and it doesn't look they will overtake half of Ukraine.
> Where are Russian allies? Nato is openly supporting Ukraine but Russian allies are scared to support Russia. It shows who is the ruling power of the world


You're giving the Russians too much leeway here. Lets look at a few things and dissect this issue: 

1. Russians invaded Ukraine, Europe's second largest country with a population of 44 million with an Army of 200K. Russian leadership assumed that the Ukrainian leadership would fall and the country would fall like a house of cards. *MISTAKE*. Neither did the Russians deploy enough troops and neither had they told their troops that they will be fighting in Ukraine. Majority of the troops were told that they were going for an exercise. 
2. Russian Army was slow to adapt. Ukrainians rightly so avoided fighting the Russian Army head on and instead fought them in smaller mobile battles where their smaller independent groups would attack Russian advancing columns with ATGM's and Small Fire. Russians were fighting the war like they were fighting a peer level enemy, with lots of Armor and Artillery. *MISTAKE*
3. Russian Air Force has been severely exposed and no where to be seen. It has been exposed as a force that has not modernized itself with Electronic Warfare, and neither has it exercised to fight as a cohesive force with the Army. *MISTAKE*
4. Russian Logistics have been severely exposed. When corruption runs deep in the country, its bound to infest the Armed Forces as well. Russian Logistics were not prepared, the tires used on their heavy vehicles were cheap Chinese ones. This a lesson for us Pakistanis, when corruption runs deep inside the country, its bound to manifest itself on the Armed Forces. *MISTAKE*
5. Ukraine didn't fully start receiving Western Weapons atleast 3 months into the war. The Russians have every weapon in the book to overwhelm the Ukrainians, but its their incompetence that's not allowing them to fully utilize their overwhelming firepower. 
6. Russians still haven't learnt. While the Ukrainians delegated the decision making to its lower officers, the Russians still hold a rigid command where everything has to go through their commander meaning their lower level officers cannot make on the spot decisions. This is why so many Russian Generals have been lost because they are going to the front lines. 

I could keep going on and on about the Russian failures, but the fact of the matter is Russian incompetence is here for everyone to see. This is what happens when an institution is corrupted from within, this is a lesson we Pakistanis should learn.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566384917562507264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566379730747662344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566379396407099397

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566326462810038273

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566353149518118915

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566384815582154753


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566409790213029889

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566386663034703879
Russian convoy obliterated

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566415175519027200


ZeGerman said:


> He posted the ypr captured 3 times as well and kees repeating his “forever war” “russia 4 time population” nonsense as well.
> 
> Is his job to crash this thread like the last?



Russia 147 million people. Ukraine 36 million people not counting Crimea and rebel parts of Ukraine. Fact.

This war lasts hundreds if not thousands of years. While not technically not forever, it is forever for all intents and purposes. Again. Fact.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566415567556337665


----------



## Ali_Baba

Ukraine Situation Report: HIMARS Gets The America's Got Talent Treatment


Saint Javelin's latest production is another example of the unprecedented online information war swirling around the conflict in Ukraine.




www.thedrive.com





HIMARS got TALENT !!!!!

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is never taking Odessa. The Russian bootlickers should forget that nonsense.


Well, chances were always there, the question is how high or low, and with the Black Sea Fleet depleted, the chances Russia can take Odessa now is probably snowball in hell.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Well, chances were always there, the question is how high or low, and with the Black Sea Fleet depleted, the chances Russia can take Odessa now is probably snowball in hell.



In 100 years from now the battle of Odesa will be one for the books.


----------



## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> I agree - a bit early to launch this offensive, but i think there is some internal pressure within Ukraine to do this but i think it is more to do with external pressure - ie the need to demonstrate that Ukraine can launch and execute offensive operations to reclaim land and liberate cities. If Ukraine can reclaim Kherson then they can make the pitch for more funding/weapons to liberate other areas, If Ukraine cannot reclaim Kherson - then Ukraines partners may force Ukraine to politically accept the status quo or negiotate their land away etc. Russia understands this also, and that is why it has turned off the gas permanently, hoping the likes of France/Germany not being able to withstand their internal pressure and force them to reduce weapons supplies and financial support so that this offensive fails.
> 
> The only ones with real backbone to support Ukraine are the UK and the USA...
> 
> The dimensions of this war at a tactical military level, but also strategic level politically.
> 
> Ukraine has a lot riding on this offensive being successful and seen as being successful.


The problem for Ukraine is that if they don't launch it now, it would be too late to do anything during winter. And after the first winter, NATO may not be as willing to supply Ukraine with state-of-the-art weaponry come next year, they would have to do something now, because offensive takes time. 

In a conventional term, an attacking force have to be have 3 to 1 advantage, or at very least 2 to 1, Ukraine did not have even close to that number, western intelligence believe Ukraine have at most 6 Brigade in this counter offensive, with 1 Brigade in reserve which mean you are looking at around 20k troop committed to this fight. If this was me, I would wait til I have 7 or 8 Brigade, tactically, Ukraine would try to encircle Russian troop in Kherson to try to win this without a fight, but if Russia did not budge, then I can probably foresee a Russian style take over, which is using artillery and rocket launcher to level everything and walks in and take the rubble. A frontal strike is all but ruled out. 

I will say with a degree of certainty that Russia is going to lose Kherson, that's because there are literally nowhere the Russian can go, with all the bridges destroyed, there are no way Russian can be supplied, not to mention the logistic had not been well for the Russian throughout the entire war. The question is whether Ukrainian can do this with this counter offensive or buckle the Russian will to fight by constantly bombard Russian position over the winter if this counter offensive failed. That is the question to ask. But if it was latter, then the chances of Ukrainian having Western Support to pull another offensive is slim, Kherson may be the last counter offensive Ukrainian can mount, and they would have to settle with Russia in Negotiation in a long term.

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## Viet

Mission accomplished?

Ramsan Kadyrow, his Chechen troop famous for brutality, nick name Putin’s bloodhound, announcing on telegram, the chapter Ukraine is finished for him, he is no longer interested.

He will take infinite long holiday.

His next goal is Poland.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Mission accomplished?
> 
> Ramsan Kadyrow, his Chechen troop famous for brutality, nick name Putin’s bloodhound, announcing on telegram, the chapter Ukraine is finished for him, he is no longer interested.
> 
> He will take infinite long holiday.
> 
> His next goal is Poland.


Rumour has it Putin cannot pay him for his service anymore.....

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Rumour has it Putin cannot pay him for his service anymore.....


Too expensive,
Or Kadyrow disappoints his master Putin?


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Too expensive,
> Or Kadyrow disappoints his master Putin?


probably both, and Russia probably can't pay both Wagner and him at the same time...

Either one or both willing to work for free, otherwise no dice.....


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> probably both, and Russia probably can't pay both Wagner and him at the same time...
> 
> Either one or both willing to work for free, otherwise no dice.....


Putin runs out of money? Weird, where all the money go.
Considering how Kadyrow men raged in Bucha, killing civilians, all things he has done for Putin. Now just dumped like a dirty underwear that hurts.


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin runs out of money? Weird, where all the money go.
> Considering how Kadyrow men raged in Bucha, killing civilians, all things he has done for Putin. Now just dumped like a dirty underwear that hurts.


Not Putin, Russia.

You think Putin will reach into his own pocket and pay for this war lol??

There are report that Russia treasury is missing a trillion dollars, you wonder where it goes??


----------



## MH.Yang

BTW:

The China Meteorological Administration has 14000 anti-aircraft guns and 16000 rocket launchers for artificial rainfall.

More than the artillery and rocket launchers of the Russian army and the Ukrainian army combined.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Not Putin, Russia.
> 
> You think Putin will reach into his own pocket and pay for this war lol??
> 
> There are report that Russia treasury is missing a trillion dollars, you wonder where it goes??


Putin is super rich, Russia is his property. He commands the gov, the justice, the parliament, the media, the army, the nuclear arsenals. And the central bank.
Good question where is the trillion USD? Let’s me guess: in a private account at the bank of China.


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin is super rich, Russia is his property. He commands the gov, the justice, the parliament, the media, the army, the nuclear arsenals. And the central bank.
> Good question where is the trillion USD? Let’s me guess: in a private account at the bank of China.


He is super rich, but I don't think he cares about Russia. He is not going to dip into his own pocket to get out of this jam....

I don't think it is in a private account at Bank of China, possibly Cayman or may even be in Switzerland, I mean Putin is old school.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> He is super rich, but I don't think he cares about Russia. He is not going to dip into his own pocket to get out of this jam....
> 
> I don't think it is in a private account at Bank of China, possibly Cayman or may even be in Switzerland, I mean Putin is old school.


Cool. I came back from Spain. 
I think Swiss is my next holiday destination.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566438694088835072


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566385652920360960

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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566433999437824000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566434014323683328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566430554211450884


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566183711363764226

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> The problem for Ukraine is that if they don't launch it now, it would be too late to do anything during winter. And after the first winter, NATO may not be as willing to supply Ukraine with state-of-the-art weaponry come next year, they would have to do something now, because offensive takes time.
> 
> In a conventional term, an attacking force have to be have 3 to 1 advantage, or at very least 2 to 1, Ukraine did not have even close to that number, western intelligence believe Ukraine have at most 6 Brigade in this counter offensive, with 1 Brigade in reserve which mean you are looking at around 20k troop committed to this fight. If this was me, I would wait til I have 7 or 8 Brigade, tactically, Ukraine would try to encircle Russian troop in Kherson to try to win this without a fight, but if Russia did not budge, then I can probably foresee a Russian style take over, which is using artillery and rocket launcher to level everything and walks in and take the rubble. A frontal strike is all but ruled out.
> 
> I will say with a degree of certainty that Russia is going to lose Kherson, that's because there are literally nowhere the Russian can go, with all the bridges destroyed, there are no way Russian can be supplied, not to mention the logistic had not been well for the Russian throughout the entire war. The question is whether Ukrainian can do this with this counter offensive or buckle the Russian will to fight by constantly bombard Russian position over the winter if this counter offensive failed. That is the question to ask. But if it was latter, then the chances of Ukrainian having Western Support to pull another offensive is slim, Kherson may be the last counter offensive Ukrainian can mount, and they would have to settle with Russia in Negotiation in a long term.


Well like was discussed, they need to show that they can retake land to ensure supplies past winter. 

However, conventionally you want to have a 3 to 1 of 5 to 1 advantage, however wouldnt motivation come into play here?

Ukraine is fighting for their homeland
Russia soldiers for rubles. 

Are russia BG willing to die being cut off at kherson?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Well like was discussed, they need to show that they can retake land to ensure supplies past winter.
> 
> However, conventionally you want to have a 3 to 1 of 5 to 1 advantage, however wouldnt motivation come into play here?
> 
> Ukraine is fighting for their homeland
> Russia soldiers for rubles.
> 
> Are russia BG willing to die being cut off at kherson?



Russians are also fighting for their homeland. Kherson was founded by Catherine the Great. Russians consider Kherson Russian land, not Ukrainian land. Also, Kherson dam is vital to Crimea water. So Russians fight tooth and nail for Kherson dam.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> Mission accomplished?
> 
> Ramsan Kadyrow, his Chechen troop famous for brutality, nick name Putin’s bloodhound, announcing on telegram, the chapter Ukraine is finished for him, he is no longer interested.
> 
> He will take infinite long holiday.
> 
> His next goal is Poland.


I wonder just how many of his chechen special forces came back in bodybags.

I noticed the amount of videos on tiktok, dual wielding against empty buildings was getting rare lately


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566447799805378560


----------



## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Well like was discussed, they need to show that they can retake land to ensure supplies past winter.
> 
> However, conventionally you want to have a 3 to 1 of 5 to 1 advantage, however wouldnt motivation come into play here?
> 
> Ukraine is fighting for their homeland
> Russia soldiers for rubles.
> 
> Are russia BG willing to die being cut off at kherson?


Conventionally you will need at least 3 to 1, but most of the time you can make do with 2 to 1, but then it would have been a bloody fight. 

The motivation wouldn't really matter for a professional army, so the question will be whether or not Russia is professional enough. It seems like it's what Ukraine is betting on tho, that's Russian army is not really that professional, because as I said, from what I can see on the position in battlefield, seems like the Ukrainian is trying to encircle them and then either hitting their supply line and starve their will to fight by hitting their GLOC or level the city with the Russian in it. Either way, I don't sense that the Ukrainian is looking for a fight to finish off the Russian, seems like they want to encircle it, make the Russian know there are no escape, and they would have to pull out instead of perishing inside the city.


----------



## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> Conventionally you will need at least 3 to 1, but most of the time you can make do with 2 to 1, but then it would have been a bloody fight.
> 
> The motivation wouldn't really matter for a professional army, so the question will be whether or not Russia is professional enough. It seems like it's what Ukraine is betting on tho, that's Russian army is not really that professional, because as I said, from what I can see on the position in battlefield, seems like the Ukrainian is trying to encircle them and then either hitting their supply line and starve their will to fight by hitting their GLOC or level the city with the Russian in it. Either way, I don't sense that the Ukrainian is looking for a fight to finish off the Russian, seems like they want to encircle it, make the Russian know there are no escape, and they would have to pull out instead of perishing inside the city.


Well considering the limited venues of retreat, allowing them an exit might be wise to get a retreat/rout going.

This route can then be saturated by Himars once they get piled up there?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566454860022747137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566451121324949504


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565794671770869760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566428810052046848

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Well considering the limited venues of retreat, allowing them an exit might be wise to get a retreat/rout going.
> 
> This route can then be saturated by Himars once they get piled up there?


This is extremely similar to when Russia attack Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk, the Russian surrounded the Ukrainian on 3 sides with the river behind Sieverodonetsk and all 3 bridges destroyed, Ukrainian choose to fight until their position is untenable, and then retreat back across the river.

This is more or less the same, Ukrainian is attacking the Russian on 3 fronts, with the Dnieper behind the Russian back over Kherson and with all the bridges either destroyed or damage and cannot be used. Now whether or not Russian troop would fight it out and perish inside the city, or they will hold on to it until the Ukrainian closing the ring and make their position untenable and withdraw across the river. That is unknown.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> This is extremely similar to when Russia attack Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk, the Russian surrounded the Ukrainian on 3 sides with the river behind Sieverodonetsk and all 3 bridges destroyed, Ukrainian choose to fight until their position is untenable, and then retreat back across the river.
> 
> This is more or less the same, Ukrainian is attacking the Russian on 3 fronts, with the Dnieper behind the Russian back over Kherson and with all the bridges either destroyed or damage and cannot be used. Now whether or not Russian troop would fight it out and perish inside the city, or they will hold on to it until the Ukrainian closing the ring and make their position untenable and withdraw across the river. That is unknown.



The situation is not comparable. While it is true there is also a river, but the other side of the river is controlled by Russians who can shot missiles across the river. Even if Ukrainians reach Kherson city they cannot take the city because of missile strikes from the other side of the river.


----------



## Vergennes

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566447799805378560



Funny how some Russian sources are trying to claim it was a Russian strike,LMAO.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566444995485335552


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566458009672466433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566458018123980802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566457479537594372

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC




----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566458009672466433
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566458018123980802
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566457479537594372


It's a blood bath going in kherson hundreds of Ukrainians have died while thousands trapped, but Ukraine sent more reinforcement with huge number of soldiers and armored vehicles with no artillery :/


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> It's a blood bath going in kherson hundreds of Ukrainians have died while thousands trapped, but Ukraine sent more reinforcement with huge number of soldiers and armored vehicles with no artillery :/



This is the first ever forever war in human history where it is fought down to the last man, woman, or child. It is barbarism that has no place in past centuries and millenia and certainly not in today's civilized world.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566210994988355585


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wagner equipped with BMP-3M light tanks


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566413240397168640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566398599092731906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566378860895240193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566378872551137282

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Ukraine PM visit to Germany
Shmyhal hopes on 5 billion euros aid package.
And Leopard 2 tanks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566453822578462721


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ukraine PM visit to Germany
> Shmyhal hopes on 5 billion euros aid.
> And Leopard 2 tanks.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566453822578462721



Leopard 2 only has short range gun. It is suicidal in today's ATGM environment. I think Germany will not send that. Losses will hurt its image and sales.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566483902524297216


----------



## Viet

The “green” is the most vocal supporter for direct weapon delivery to Ukraine, and cutting off all energy ties to Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566484429383630850


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566488109205884928


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Leopard 2 only has short range gun. It is suicidal in today's ATGM environment. I think Germany will not send that. Losses will hurt its image and sales.


We will see.
A German tank brigade in Lithuania.
Just few km to Russia border.







Bild vergrößern
Ein Leopard-2-Panzer der Bundeswehr im Litauern Nato-Camp Adrian Rohn

Foto: Michael Kappeler / dpa


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566488172518932481


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566488146782703616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566490882467155969


----------



## Viet

Ukraine gov chief Shmyhal in German state television

He confirms the ongoing southern offensive against Russia invasion army, Ukraine army seeking weak points in the defense lines. He says Ukraine wants to take back all territories lost to Russia, all lands within international recognized border of 1991, that means including Donbas and Crimea. Ukraine will fight until the end considering Russia war crimes against Ukraine population.










Denys Schmyhal, ukrainischer Ministerpräsident, zur Lage in der Ukraine und dem Gespräch mit Bundespräsident Steinmeier


Denys Schmyhal, ukrainischer Ministerpräsident, zur Lage in der Ukraine und dem Gespräch mit Bundespräsident Steinmeier




www.tagesschau.de

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ukraine gov chief in German state television
> 
> He confirms the ongoing southern offensive against Russia invasion army, Ukraine army seeking the weak points in the defense lines. He says Ukraine wants to take back all territories lost to Russia including Donbas and Crimea. Ukraine will fight until the end considering Russia war crime against Ukraine population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Denys Schmyhal, ukrainischer Ministerpräsident, zur Lage in der Ukraine und dem Gespräch mit Bundespräsident Steinmeier
> 
> 
> Denys Schmyhal, ukrainischer Ministerpräsident, zur Lage in der Ukraine und dem Gespräch mit Bundespräsident Steinmeier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de



Well, considering Kiev started the war, Kiev should finish the war.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566496213620428800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566495334146183170


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566496213620428800
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566495334146183170



Lots of these were wrecked by Houthis in Yemen. 600 grand a piece.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566492998753460226


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566499070583111681


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566499070583111681



Useless. It's made of concrete. Rockets can only make potholes on it. Fixed within a day.


----------



## RektAtKasserinePass

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> This is the first ever forever war in human history where it is fought down to the last man, woman, or child. It is barbarism that has no place in past centuries and millenia and certainly not in today's civilized world.



Will you shut up with your forever war nonsense you forever faggot.

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## Ali_Baba

RektAtKasserinePass said:


> Will you shut up with your forever war nonsense you forever faggot.



Dude - i put Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen on the ignore list earlier today(look at their profile and hit ignore) - so far - proving to be a good decision as i dont see any posts from him anymore!


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566488629110767623


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566498612045090817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566509115253444609

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566501390519881729


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566521274574295043


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566519627890544640

Reactions: Like Like:
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## HorusRa

Ali_Baba said:


> Dude - i put Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen on the ignore list earlier today(look at their profile and hit ignore) - so far - proving to be a good decision as i dont see any posts from him anymore!



The dude definitely is in the spectrum.


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566503160109211657


----------



## RektAtKasserinePass

Not heard of any US volunteers recently. Are they shook?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566548024301592577

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566524749978779651

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566550769536491521


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566561974716186633

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> That how modern day SEAD was done. It's not hard to understand the Ukrainian has been using their drone as a bait to draw out the Russian radar, and when they turn on and try to target the drone, they have Mig-29 armed with HARM and shoot that radar site at a standoff range. I suspect the Russian had lost several radar equipment to this tactic before we knew HARM was in use, notice how the Russian didn't even bother to try and intercept those drones and HIMARS rocket? That tell me they had lost a few systems and not going to be fool to turn them on again. Either way the function of those SEAD mission has completed, now the Russian won't know if they are going to be facing an incoming HARM when they turn on those radar.
> 
> Russia needs to step up their game, the only way I can see it turn this tide is to use RuAF, which have largely been an undeciding factor of this war. They will need to use it to fly CAP or Russia could lose air superiority to Ukraine......


The Ukrainians should keep it up and the U.S. and the rest of the world keep supplying HARMs. Also need to beef up their EW and air defense against possible new drones provided by Iran if confirmed and what I have pointed out that Iran could supply them.



jhungary said:


> Well, by escalation I mean Russia started general mobilisation or started to go crazy and bomb forbidden target (like the nuke plant and civilian corridor)
> 
> NATO and the west is trying to limit the conflict to as small as possible, you can't give Russia excuse to start mobilising, Putin is afraid to take this to the next level, that's why he refused to call this war a "war" and call it "special military operation" that's because he knows if he call this a war, and then start mobilising the population for an foreign incursion, they will get rid of him quicker than getting rid of Ned Stark in Game of Throne.......But if US start supplying shotgun munition or airburst munition, and starting wholesale slaughter of Russian soldier. This is going to swing the Russian in Putin Favor and that give him the legitimacy to expand the war.
> 
> That's the Balance of NATO, they can't be humiliating Russia that much like Marcon said (I did not agree with him with most of the issue but this one I agree with him) You need to humiliate Putin, yes, but if you go too far, that will rile up the Russian population.


Putin isn't going to mobilize since it would show weakness and as you said, would have turn the public against him. Ned Stark early death as you mentioned it. Its Catch 22 for Putin. Hence why the Russian government and military hasn't mention any casualty updates because it would scare the public even for pro-war. And it would definitely not swing to Putin's favor if more Russians are dying at a higher rate because of the GMLRS air burst being provided in that scenario. Why would the Russians want to be motivated to join the slaughterhouse? Hence Putin's refusal to mobilize. And he sure won't be going to war with NATO as well. I can think of many scenarios of helping Ukraine if Russia tries to do so, and it won't be pretty for Russia for sure. Especially air support for the Ukrainian forces where they do most of the fighting on the ground while NATO fights and bomb from the air. Russian troops won't have any vehicles left, repair bases, barracks, ammo dumps, transportation like the trains and convoys will be like Highway of Death 2.0.

Anyways, as I have pointed out previously, there will be no escalation using airburst GLMRS. Whether Russian troops die slowly or faster to the point that Putin would mobilize.

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## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565562142845280257
> 
> 
> TB2 is a pretty small drone. Doubt it can carry large long range missiles. It's only the size of Mohajer 6, Searcher II.


Missiles of those size in especially newer missiles can travel 2 to 3 times the range.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians are also fighting for their homeland. Kherson was founded by Catherine the Great. Russians consider Kherson Russian land, not Ukrainian land. Also, Kherson dam is vital to Crimea water. So Russians fight tooth and nail for Kherson dam.


Russians considered all of Ukraine as theirs, we saw what happened there.



jhungary said:


> Conventionally you will need at least 3 to 1, but most of the time you can make do with 2 to 1, but then it would have been a bloody fight.
> 
> The motivation wouldn't really matter for a professional army, so the question will be whether or not Russia is professional enough. It seems like it's what Ukraine is betting on tho, that's Russian army is not really that professional, because as I said, from what I can see on the position in battlefield, seems like the Ukrainian is trying to encircle them and then either hitting their supply line and starve their will to fight by hitting their GLOC or level the city with the Russian in it. Either way, I don't sense that the Ukrainian is looking for a fight to finish off the Russian, seems like they want to encircle it, make the Russian know there are no escape, and they would have to pull out instead of perishing inside the city.


I say they should kill as many Russian troops as possible. I know its cliché. But they have that capability and can be provided.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566560723869880323


----------



## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566560723869880323



I'm afraid you got this one wrong. According to the original tweet the warehouse was targeted by a Ukrainian Pion.

Andrew Perpetua

@AndrewPerpetua
·
3h

Replying to 
@AndrewPerpetua
Apparently this warehouse was targeted by a Ukrainian Pion.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566407319340072960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566553672334643207

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566549357951959041


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Russians considered all of Ukraine as theirs, we saw what happened there.



They take what they can. Ukrainians were boasting they can take Moscow within a week because they are glorious descendants of the mighty Kievan Rus and look where they are now. Still unable to take a single Russian village.


----------



## gambit

notorious_eagle said:


> You're giving the Russians too much leeway here. Lets look at a few things and dissect this issue:
> 
> 1. Russians invaded Ukraine, Europe's second largest country with a population of 44 million with an Army of 200K. Russian leadership assumed that the Ukrainian leadership would fall and the country would fall like a house of cards. *MISTAKE*. Neither did the Russians deploy enough troops and neither had they told their troops that they will be fighting in Ukraine. Majority of the troops were told that they were going for an exercise.
> 2. Russian Army was slow to adapt. Ukrainians rightly so avoided fighting the Russian Army head on and instead fought them in smaller mobile battles where their smaller independent groups would attack Russian advancing columns with ATGM's and Small Fire. Russians were fighting the war like they were fighting a peer level enemy, with lots of Armor and Artillery. *MISTAKE*
> 3. Russian Air Force has been severely exposed and no where to be seen. It has been exposed as a force that has not modernized itself with Electronic Warfare, and neither has it exercised to fight as a cohesive force with the Army. *MISTAKE*
> 4. Russian Logistics have been severely exposed. When corruption runs deep in the country, its bound to infest the Armed Forces as well. Russian Logistics were not prepared, the tires used on their heavy vehicles were cheap Chinese ones. This a lesson for us Pakistanis, when corruption runs deep inside the country, its bound to manifest itself on the Armed Forces. *MISTAKE*
> 5. Ukraine didn't fully start receiving Western Weapons atleast 3 months into the war. The Russians have every weapon in the book to overwhelm the Ukrainians, but its their incompetence that's not allowing them to fully utilize their overwhelming firepower.
> 6. Russians still haven't learnt. While the Ukrainians delegated the decision making to its lower officers, the Russians still hold a rigid command where everything has to go through their commander meaning their lower level officers cannot make on the spot decisions. This is why so many Russian Generals have been lost because they are going to the front lines.
> 
> I could keep going on and on about the Russian failures, but the fact of the matter is Russian incompetence is here for everyone to see. This is what happens when an institution is corrupted from within, this is a lesson we Pakistanis should learn.


Very good...

But the point that most people missed is that all these mistakes are philosophical or conceptual or theoretical which inevitably bled down into the applications levels which inevitably dragged out the war when on paper, Russia should have had its own Desert Storm which I believe what Poutine wanted. Poutine wanted Ukraine and he wanted it conquered in spectacular fashion, instead, he got Afghanistan redux, but unlike Afghanistan where the news were generally slow to reach the public, news of the debacle are merely half a degree away from real time via social media, bypassing any filter. Any deeper than these six points you would tread into the applications levels and we already have plenty of evidence for Russia's incompetence in contrast to its image.

As an Air Force guy, I am understandably pro airpower, and with all due respects to the ground pounders of any country, there is no greater ally or terror on the battlefields than the presence of something flying overhead. You hear the jet engine roar and/or the characteristic cutting of the air, and you hope that the producers of the noise belongs to your side, and when you hear those noises move towards the other side, your morale rises. The Russian Air Force is a failed air force and a miserable one. Once this war is over, no matter the outcome, the VKS should be disbanded and reformed. All of its top leaders and their seconds should be fired. Let the third tier officers take over. They could not be any worse.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566515926123560965

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566566049872547842

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> The Ukrainians should keep it up and the U.S. and the rest of the world keep supplying HARMs. Also need to beef up their EW and air defense against possible new drones provided by Iran if confirmed and what I have pointed out that Iran could supply them.



Ukraine needs both active and passive area denial weapon. They needed more SAM system rather than just the 2 NASAM promised but yet delivered by the US (Or Norwegian)

HARMs are going to hit limits by the sorties of UAF that fly them, which mean if you keep supplying them with HARM to do SEAD, you will most likely need to supply the Ukrainian with the aircraft that launch SEAD from. UAF lost around half of their inventory since the war begin.



Oldman1 said:


> Putin isn't going to mobilize since it would show weakness and as you said, would have turn the public against him. Ned Stark early death as you mentioned it. Its Catch 22 for Putin. Hence why the Russian government and military hasn't mention any casualty updates because it would scare the public even for pro-war. And it would definitely not swing to Putin's favor if more Russians are dying at a higher rate because of the GMLRS air burst being provided in that scenario. Why would the Russians want to be motivated to join the slaughterhouse? Hence Putin's refusal to mobilize. And he sure won't be going to war with NATO as well. I can think of many scenarios of helping Ukraine if Russia tries to do so, and it won't be pretty for Russia for sure. Especially air support for the Ukrainian forces where they do most of the fighting on the ground while NATO fights and bomb from the air. Russian troops won't have any vehicles left, repair bases, barracks, ammo dumps, transportation like the trains and convoys will be like Highway of Death 2.0.
> 
> Anyways, as I have pointed out previously, there will be no escalation using airburst GLMRS. Whether Russian troops die slowly or faster to the point that Putin would mobilize.


I too would not think Putin is bolt enough to escalate the thing. However, seeing how NATO refused basic Ukrainian request based on it "would' or "might" seen as an escalation (I mean, NATO got pussyfooted to even supply Polish Mig to Ukraine...) NATO top brass seems unwilling to commit claiming it will escalate, not sure whether or not they really do believe it will escalate the whole thing or just unwilling to help Ukraine with that.

I don't make decision at NATO......but if it was up to me, I would have set up No Fly Zone over Ukraine already, let Russia worry about getting into Nuclear War and call their bluff. But well, I don't make decision there, and they do, and they seems to think this is not a good idea.....



Oldman1 said:


> I say they should kill as many Russian troops as possible. I know its cliché. But they have that capability and can be provided.


Well, Ukrainian need at least 60 HIMARS or M270, we gave them 16.....(4 with the last aid package) We should have transferred 100 or 50 M270 that was retired from USMC when they switch to HIMARS. 

I don't really think the current administration has the stomach to kill as many Russian troop as possible. Either that or Biden is really senile and can't read the situation right......I dont know

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

jhungary said:


> I don't think I will reply to you anymore.
> 
> Right now, you are just ranting, if Russia is doing what you think they are doing, you wouldn't be ranting here, there isn't really a point of discussion here, I will do both of us a favor and save some bandwidth on this forum.
> 
> I mean, I could have gone into a name calling match with you, but then why bother??
> 
> Also, come back to me when this exact forum appreciates your input and give you some title before you challenge mine, it's made you look foolish, not smart.


I am going to take somebody elses advice on this forum and block this NotSure loser. He is adding nothing to the discussion. Hurling abuses because his side is getting its butt kicked and has gone from a image of a superpower to a worthless one whose best hope of relevance is to be sub-serviant to China, its arch enemy since the 60s.

He can't make Putin win so he is directing his anger on everybody here with his keystrokes to maintain is negative reaction score status. On any other forum he would be blocked.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> They take what they can. Ukrainians were boasting they can take Moscow within a week because they are glorious descendants of the mighty Kievan Rus and look where they are now. Still unable to take a single Russian village.


Mr. Forever war: can you pls show me where they have said they can take this in a week. I don't think any leader sets goals that cannot be achieved

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566550769536491521


jhungary said:


> Well, Ukrainian need at least 60 HIMARS or M270, we gave them 16.....(4 with the last aid package) We should have transferred 100 or 50 M270 that was retired from USMC when they switch to HIMARS.
> 
> I don't really think the current administration has the stomach to kill as many Russian troop as possible. Either that or Biden is really senile and can't read the situation right......I dont know



Probably careful not to give too much advantage to Ukrainians. The goal of the US is stalemate. If Ukrainians push into Russian soil and take a village or city China may get involved directly with arms supply to even the field. The last thing the US want is another arms race with China. China has much more powerful industrial base than the US. China out manufactures the US the way the US out manufactured Japan in WW2.


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566515926123560965
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566566049872547842


Cheap misleading propaganda

Natural gas is the main component to making fertilizer. Without gas no fertilizer. It’s like without stainless steel no cars. Russia wages energy war against Europe. Here Putin turns off the tap then blames lack of competitive. Rediculous.

Also, rediculous, citing Marcon out of context.


----------



## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> I am going to take somebody elses advice on this forum and block this NotSure loser. He is adding nothing to the discussion. Hurling abuses because his side is getting its butt kicked and has gone from a image of a superpower to a worthless one whose best hope of relevance is to be sub-serviant to China, its arch enemy since the 60s.
> 
> He can't make Putin win so he is directing his anger on everybody here with his keystrokes to maintain is negative reaction score status. On any other forum he would be blocked.


Stopped taking him seriously when he claims the entire Northern front is a feign, that Russia was not at all trying to take Kyiv and that is a fake.......It stop being fake the moment you move your troop into Ukraine and reach 30 mile from Kyiv. Let alone trying to reinforce that front by piping troop thru a second line bypassing Chernihiv.












He has offered no technical aspect on the discussion even Tho he claims he is a nerd and a technical person. All he say here is Ukraine lose x amount of men and Russia is going to take Ukraine, he has been saying this from day 1 without even explaining how.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566690489264488450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566686336827940864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566642451208704000

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

*Don't forget. In a few hours this thing will be in power.*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Build up of a NATO brigade with 4,000 men in Litauen with German armor infantry.


----------



## jhungary

Ukrainian force took Vysokopillya and raise flag on Vysokopillya Hospital



Ukraine Recaptures Kherson Village From Russia, Raises Flag Over Hospital



Vysokopillya is South West of Velyka Kostromka, taking Vysokopillya means Ukraine will have access to T-2207 highway, leading south toward Nova Karkova.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566721358893092865

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566751311990853632


----------



## Ali_Baba

*Ukraine retakes Blahodativka, Vysokopillya, and Lyubymivka in Kherson *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566577128040169472

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566751311990853632


No joke, a Taliban trench is better build than this......

Did Russian Officer even check their fortification?? That would not have allowed in the US, your senior sergeant would make you redo the trench until it's to his liking...


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> No joke, a Taliban trench is better build than this......
> 
> Did Russian Officer even check their fortification?? That would not have allowed in the US, your senior sergeant would make you redo the trench until it's to his liking...


What’s worse?
Terrible trench against Ukraine frontal assault or terrible tank protection against Ukraine top attack?




T-72B3M tanks of 126th Coastal Brigade in[+]PHOTO FROM RUSSIAN SOCIAL MEDIA.







KIEV, UKRAINE - 2021/08/24: Ukrainian servicemen[+]SOPA IMAGES/LIGHTROCKET VIA GETTY IMAGES


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566762481959292930

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> Russia annexed parts of ukraine BECAUSE Ukraine had been oppressing and suppressing Russian speakers in Ukraine...Russia stepped in to protect those Russian speakers- your order of understanding has dyslexia.


Keep believing that bs. Oh Putin the humanitarian 🤣


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> What’s worse?
> Terrible trench against Ukraine frontal assault or terrible tank protection against Ukraine top attack?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T-72B3M tanks of 126th Coastal Brigade in[+]PHOTO FROM RUSSIAN SOCIAL MEDIA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KIEV, UKRAINE - 2021/08/24: Ukrainian servicemen[+]SOPA IMAGES/LIGHTROCKET VIA GETTY IMAGES


Cope cage is just desperation, but the trench thing is bad soldiering. I mean, as an infantrymen fought in frontline. You do your trench like you do your home, because that's your home for whenever long you are online. Would you renovate your home in shamble and stuff everywhere and put garbage everywhere?? You don't. Unless you are saying Russian position had been shelled continuously for the last 6 months, this type of shoddy building work cannot and should not be forgiven...


----------



## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> 1.French citizens AREN't being oppressed in UK as a matter of fact. so this a fake hypothetical, which cant work, or be considered seriously, because in the real world, Russian speakers in Ukraine were and are getting abused and shelled and killed.
> 2. False equivalence logic - Russia is the regional hegemon in its region, but France nor England is, so NO, that logic doesnt apply. Bettter logic is Iran stepping in in its region to protect Shiites. Next point?


That’s your logic? Hum explains a lot


----------



## jhungary

RoadAmerica said:


> Keep believing that bs. Oh Putin the humanitarian 🤣


Lol, he didn't even know Ukrainian are forced to teach Russian in UKRAINIAN school after Ukraine become a separate country. Talk about oppressing Russian speaker.....There should NOT HAVE BEEN RUSSIAN SPEAKER in Ukraine to begin with, you are in Ukraine, speak Ukrainian......

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566766662220652550


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566750608819998722

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566750982104662018


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia didn't annex donbas , Donetsk and luhansk declared independence after their language declared illegal
> Russia annexed Crimea , and the problem with crimea come back to some Stalin bad policy .


Declare independence? That’s like California declaring independence because they don’t agree with Washington. That logic has more holes than Swiss cheese



925boy said:


> why did lower Poland start getting angry with Germany because of the Ukraine war? y'all got some form of renewed PTSD from WW 2 or something?
> 
> 
> They didnt have to be citizens....Russia can write the rules in its backyard, JUST LIKE AMERICA DOES. you're the one who needs to try harder.
> 
> its obvious ur in denial, and i understand and ac cept these issues better than u do, stop competing where ur not good enuf on the subject.
> 
> 
> ALLSOOO, u need to really should keep quiet on this subject tbh, why? FOR ALL YOUR TOUGH TALK, all you nato cowards have done is supply weapons and money - AFHANISTAN LOSERS MOVIE PART II happening in Ukraine now fopr you guys, just soon after Afghanistan war ended...y'all just cant stop losing wars. lmao
> 
> ACtion speaks louder than your pathetic PDF words- on the battlefield, NATO is a toothless octogenarian.


America doesn’t write the rule smarty, when was the last time they took over Mexico, Canada, Cuba? I’ll wait



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians are also fighting for their homeland. Kherson was founded by Catherine the Great. Russians consider Kherson Russian land, not Ukrainian land. Also, Kherson dam is vital to Crimea water. So Russians fight tooth and nail for Kherson dam.


Man you just keep changing your reasoning


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566762481959292930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566767891927678981

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Iran is far from third rate country. When Iran was super power Russians were living in mud huts. BTW, Americans cooperate closely with British in military hardware too. Nothing wrong with cooperation with close allies.


Iran was never a super power in modern times, open a history book and get off this forum



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566313132951232512
> 
> 
> Yanks do not want to escalate. If Yanks send Abrams tanks to Ukraine than China send Type 99A2 tanks to Russia. Type 99A2 is better than Abrams.


Same crap over and over, once again China isn’t sending squad. 
Please go back to school, I’m still trying to determine what grade you’re in 🤷🏿‍♂️

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566697075160584193


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566663000378966018The late delivery of these MRAP vehicles was a mistake. It could have saved the lives of many Ukrainian soldiers.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566750064583778305


----------



## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> Genius, i live 30 years in germany and have german roots going back to 1778. Don't talk about things you don't understand. The only reason to leave this country permanently is, because you angloids have turned it into a shithole in the nearly 80 years of occupation.
> 
> And i don't need to go and fight myself, the Russian military is doing pretty fine. With a smaller force they destroyed an army in the size of the british armed forces, supported by the whole Nato.


Haha blaming someone else, got to say I was just in stuttgart and I won’t be going back. You’ve done a great job ruining your country yourselves. Who’d you vote for last time, let me guess the Green Party


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566746178816991232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566745611260526592


----------



## RoadAmerica

MH.Yang said:


> BTW:
> 
> The China Meteorological Administration has 14000 anti-aircraft guns and 16000 rocket launchers for artificial rainfall.
> 
> More than the artillery and rocket launchers of the Russian army and the Ukrainian army combined.


Russia vs Ukraine thread, who cares 🤦🏿‍♂️

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

https://****/loordofwar/40866

_**** = t dot me_

🥁🥁🥁💀💀💀

According to Ukrop Legitimny channel this was the setup for Kherson offensive, wave 1-2 got completely destroyed.

- the first wave: strike groups of special forces.
Approximate 5.000 people

- the second wave: immediately after the first, regular units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which went through the spring campaign and have good combat experience.
Approximate participation 10.000 people

- the third and fourth wave: it is underway now, and consists of additional special forces and Armed Forces of Ukraine with combat experience of at least four months.
Approximate number of participants: 10.000

- the fifth wave, now being brought from the rear: it consists of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the territorial defense. Approximate number: 20.000 😆😆😆and all heading to suicide assisted by NATO

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Leopard 2 only has short range gun. It is suicidal in today's ATGM environment. I think Germany will not send that. Losses will hurt its image and sales.


Once again you’re clueless m, just stop


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566742336071036928


----------



## DF41

https://****/NovichokRossiya/9833 
_**** = t dot me_

💀💀💀🥁🥁🥁

☝️👆☝️👆☝️👆
The bloody failure of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Kherson: the girl of the Armed Forces of Ukraine spoke about the horrific losses in the Odessa group

“My loved one was thrown 2 days ago without anything on tanks and artillery, then their unit was taken back, giving 1 day to rest (before death). What he himself says: “They were going to send us back yesterday, they promised support and a bunch of everything, everyone refused. This is straight f*ck, I can’t find another word, another cauldron in which thousands of people died over these months. It’s the same in other units, one of ours was sent to the 18th battalion, then we saw his video on Facebook, where he tells in tears that out of his company (about 100 people) 7 survived, and out of the entire battalion (about 800 people .) there are no more than 150 left. The corpses of those who manage to be taken out of the battlefield disappear - while they were transporting back and forth the body was lost, and now it is listed as missing.
All these actions of our "high commanders" seem strange and I have only 2 assumptions why this happens - either working for the enemy, or stupidly stealing the dough allocated to us in the form of assistance. Now all the fighters are sitting and thinking how to make all this tin publicity."

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> https://****/loordofwar/40866
> 
> _**** = t dot me_
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁💀💀💀
> 
> According to Ukrop Legitimny channel this was the setup for Kherson offensive, wave 1-2 got completely destroyed.
> 
> - the first wave: strike groups of special forces.
> Approximate 5.000 people
> 
> - the second wave: immediately after the first, regular units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which went through the spring campaign and have good combat experience.
> Approximate participation 10.000 people
> 
> - the third and fourth wave: it is underway now, and consists of additional special forces and Armed Forces of Ukraine with combat experience of at least four months.
> Approximate number of participants: 10.000
> 
> - the fifth wave, now being brought from the rear: it consists of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the territorial defense. Approximate number: 20.000 😆😆😆and all heading to suicide assisted by NATO


So you’re saying a min of 25k Ukraine troops are Kia? And you believe that?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> They take what they can. Ukrainians were boasting they can take Moscow within a week because they are glorious descendants of the mighty Kievan Rus and look where they are now. Still unable to take a single Russian village.


They never said they could take Moscow 
Did you forget they’re fighting in Ukraine for their land they have no desire to take Russia’s empty shit hole


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Cope cage is just desperation, but the trench thing is bad soldiering. I mean, as an infantrymen fought in frontline. You do your trench like you do your home, because that's your home for whenever long you are online. Would you renovate your home in shamble and stuff everywhere and put garbage everywhere?? You don't. Unless you are saying Russian position had been shelled continuously for the last 6 months, this type of shoddy building work cannot and should not be forgiven...


Russia is not South Korea. Russia is low tech. They luckily inherited much of Soviet Union. If not then Putin’s Russia is worse off. No, I won’t let my house be renovated by idiots.

Putin is disappointed by drones delivered by Iran. Most are garbage. How possible? Meanwhile the faked referendum for Cherson is postponed.
Seems the separatists, Russian troops, traitors are afraid of Ukraine artillery.







Bild vergrößern
Hier sollen iranische Drohnen als Teil eines Militärmanövers in dem Land zu sehen sein

Foto: AFP

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566550769536491521
> 
> 
> Probably careful not to give too much advantage to Ukrainians. The goal of the US is stalemate. If Ukrainians push into Russian soil and take a village or city China may get involved directly with arms supply to even the field. The last thing the US want is another arms race with China. China has much more powerful industrial base than the US. China out manufactures the US the way the US out manufactured Japan in WW2.


Are they going be able to churn out all that equipment during covid lock downs 🤣

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566783231009112070


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566707263263444994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566776870439370756

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566782756071383040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566747738473218049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566751813474422784


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566791625866498049


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566771139841605635


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566800761723523074


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Are they going be able to churn out all that equipment during covid lock downs 🤣



If need be.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566800410748207105

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566807580109930503

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566800245664669697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566799029563957251

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566793408135499777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566788539764842501


https://mobile.twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1566779930574217216





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566800410748207105



200 grand per missile. Waste of money for nothing. Printing money causes inflation.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566812644371320834

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566811795385421831


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Russia is not South Korea. Russia is low tech. They luckily inherited much of Soviet Union. If not then Putin’s Russia is worse off. No, I won’t let my house be renovated by idiots.
> 
> Putin is disappointed by drones delivered by Iran. Most are garbage. How possible? Meanwhile the faked referendum for Cherson is postponed.
> Seems the separatists, Russian troops, traitors are afraid of Ukraine artillery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Hier sollen iranische Drohnen als Teil eines Militärmanövers in dem Land zu sehen sein
> 
> Foto: AFP


Talked to a friend of mine recently (like 2 weeks ago) he is a Colonel now but we served together back when we were junior officer.

He put a very good point to me, he said, "I wonder how much preparation Russia had put into this war, because it does not seem very much" When you put together all the logistic issue, all the resupply issue, the under-performing military front, all that point to a war they got into without knowing what will happen, like they are going in blind.

A lot of those stuff are not just shoddy work, but it goes way back to training and indoctrination period. You look at the "Base" they made, that's not soldiering at all. Either they are sending troop that weren't at all trained to the frontline, which in itself is a problem, or that is a much deeper problem goes all the way to their Training Doctrine and Command, and with the first half of this war seems like a headless assault, it points to basic and fundamental problem with Russian Training Doctrine and Command issue.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> did they really entered war then ? just some support , just like what some other countries do.


All the leaders of the insurgency were Russians.
Russians declared independence, not Ukraine.
Did the East Ukrainans have a choice?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566829074303049728


A.P. Richelieu said:


> All the leaders of the insurgency were Russians.
> Did the East Ukrainans have a choice?



Yanukovych was from Donbas and he was Donbas governor before he became Ukraine president. When Euro Maidan riot ousted Yanukovych Donbas civilians got angry and set up Donbas republic. Although Russia did not recognize Donbas republic until the day after 2022 Beijing Olympics at the insistence of Putin's master Xi.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566834490055557122

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566833536564436992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566832229078237186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566830986205319169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566829628911718400


----------



## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> Talked to a friend of mine recently (like 2 weeks ago) he is a Colonel now but we served together back when we were junior officer.
> 
> He put a very good point to me, he said, "I wonder how much preparation Russia had put into this war, because it does not seem very much" When you put together all the logistic issue, all the resupply issue, the under-performing military front, all that point to a war they got into without knowing what will happen, like they are going in blind.
> 
> A lot of those stuff are not just shoddy work, but it goes way back to training and indoctrination period. You look at the "Base" they made, that's not soldiering at all. Either they are sending troop that weren't at all trained to the frontline, which in itself is a problem, or that is a much deeper problem goes all the way to their Training Doctrine and Command, and with the first half of this war seems like a headless assault, it points to basic and fundamental problem with Russian Training Doctrine and Command issue.



That’s I agree with but the rotting of Russian Armed Forces internally is much worse due to corruption.


----------



## Hack-Hook

RoadAmerica said:


> Declare independence? That’s like California declaring independence because they don’t agree with Washington. That logic has more holes than Swiss cheese


you think what will happen if federal government say people of California cant use English in school and offices ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Declare independence? That’s like California declaring independence because they don’t agree with Washington. That logic has more holes than Swiss cheese



America did declare independence from Britain due to high tax.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566836449579864066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566590158278983680


----------



## The SC




----------



## DF41

https://****/DonbassDevushka/23145 
_**** = t dot me_
🥁🥁🥁. 

🤣🤣🤣 One without both legs🤣🤣🤣 

The battle for Kherson: the situation in the Posad-Pokrovsky and Aleksandrovsky sections
as of 19.00 September 5, 2022

Having concentrated to the north of Posad-Pokrovsky to the battalion tactical group formed from 24, 28 and 59 brigades, the Armed Forces of Ukraine today made another attempt to attack at the turn of Ternovye Pody - Zeleny Gai - Blagodatnoye (Petrovskoye).

The BTGr of the Armed Forces of Ukraine went on the offensive after active artillery preparation by a group of eight tanks: the main load fell on the sector of the 20th Motor Rifle Division of the RF Armed Forces.

With the support of special forces reconnaissance groups that carried out target designation, fire support for artillery and equipment of the 7th airborne division of the RF Armed Forces, Russian troops managed to destroy five tanks, three infantry fighting vehicles, four pickup trucks and a Hammer. Two commanders of the Yavorovskaya company of the 59th ombr of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were taken prisoner - one without both legs.

Units of 108 airborne infantry regiments of the RF Armed Forces successfully worked on two Ukrainian Su-25s: one plane was shot down, the second was at least seriously shot down.

The offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on Posad-Pokrovskoye is currently fizzling out.

At the Aleksandrovsky section of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, no active actions have been taken since August 30-31: everything is limited to occasional shelling.

https://****/DonbassDevushka/23148 
_**** = t dot me_
🥁🥁🥁

Video message to the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Vladimir Oleksandrovich Zelensky: we are servicemen of the 2nd platoon of the 2nd company of the 59th separate rifle battalion filmed this video in memory of the dead brothers and also with the aim of informing the Ukrainian society about the situation that has developed in the 53rd separate brigade to which we were seconded by chance or even malicious intent.
In the event that we go missing, we ask that all the blame be placed on the command of the 53rd Motorized Brigade and the 59th OSB: the command of the 53rd brigade, having no full-fledged technical means for conducting combat operations, uses seconded rifle companies as cannon fodder, giving orders to equip positions in the areas already targeted to the enemy (This is to us, that is). At the same time, leaving the wounded to the mercy of fate and refusing to take out the bodies of the dead. Motivating this by the fact that it is impossible to evacuate without the loss of their combat units. Knowing the place of death, they assign the status of "missing" and those who were forced to retreat under fire from enemy artillery are credited with criminal unauthorized abandonment of positions. The deceased commander of the 3rd platoon of the 2nd company of the 59th OSB, senior lieutenant Sergey Boby, as well as his subordinates, are charged with entering positions while intoxicated, which is an absolute lie and slander. We, the 2nd platoon of the 2nd company, express our distrust of the command of the 53rd brigade and the 59th separate rifle battalion. At the same time, we do not refuse combat orders, but not as part of the 53rd OMB and 59th OSB. Since they do not have the correct planning of combat orders, defense and technical support, and transmit false information about the dead and wounded.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Talked to a friend of mine recently (like 2 weeks ago) he is a Colonel now but we served together back when we were junior officer.
> 
> He put a very good point to me, he said, "I wonder how much preparation Russia had put into this war, because it does not seem very much" When you put together all the logistic issue, all the resupply issue, the under-performing military front, all that point to a war they got into without knowing what will happen, like they are going in blind.
> 
> A lot of those stuff are not just shoddy work, but it goes way back to training and indoctrination period. You look at the "Base" they made, that's not soldiering at all. Either they are sending troop that weren't at all trained to the frontline, which in itself is a problem, or that is a much deeper problem goes all the way to their Training Doctrine and Command, and with the first half of this war seems like a headless assault, it points to basic and fundamental problem with Russian Training Doctrine and Command issue.


Recently watching a video German army commenting on Ukraine offensive

They made estimates how much fuel an army division (15,000 men, 10,000 verhicles) needs per day: 1.5 million liter. The Russians have about 30,000 men west of the river bank, 2 divisions, so they will need 3 million liter fuel per day. Not to mention tons of foods, waters are certainly needed as well.

If Ukraine artillery continue to destroy bridges, supplies That will be difficult to impossible for the Russians to sustain a long fight against Ukraine assaults.


----------



## DF41

https://****/disclosetv/9144 
_**** = t dot me_

🧻🧻🧻

UST IN - Hakle, the German toilet paper manufacturer and largest importer in Europe, is insolvent.

@disclosetv 🚽🚽🚽D:
Welcome to the dirty *** Germany period

Jake Matthews:
Aww shit here we go again

Raphael Z:
That’s shine big shit 😂

Rex Butt:
That’s Shitty 🥁

Caroline Sebastiau:
Take that, Putin!

Samuel Tamayo G:
Holy CRAP

×ºℜ𝔢𝔟𝔢𝔩º× #ც૦੮ՆฯԲ:
So, Hakle went to shit

Iron Ardito:
Let them use bidets

Erik A.G. Hanon:
The era of toilet paper has ended. The time of poop has begun.

RK:
no gas, no heat, no water, no food, no toilet paper. enjoy your winter

Jeremy Marcus:
Shit is about to hit the fan in Germany

Unsilenced Patriot:
The shits really hitting the fan now

Geraldine von Fintel:
Klaus Schwab and Bill Gates must be so happy!

Krzysztof:
Good, time to clean *** with bills.

gun gun:
Time for the planet to stand up and make it clear we dont give a crap about ukraine. Who cares if it exists or doesnt. Its not our problem.

🤍 🤍:
Europeans ought to be scared shitless

Daz Machine:
No electricity to keep the skid marks at bay.

C J:
They can wash their asses with a cold shower

HP:
As they are gathering their fire wood they can grab some leaves too

Khiem:
Toilet paper panic hoarding like its early 2020 again

Žarko:
they gonna be using corn husks like back in the day 🤡


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Recently watching a video German army commenting on Ukraine offensive
> 
> They made estimates how much fuel an army division (15,000 men, 10,000 verhicles) needs per day: 1.5 million liter. The Russians have about 30,000 men west of the river bank, 2 divisions, so they will need 3 million liter fuel per day.
> 
> If Ukraine artillery continue to destroy bridges, supplies That will be difficult to impossible for the Russians to sustain a long fight against Ukraine assaults.



Dnipr river is only about 400 meters wide. Russian artillery on the east side of the river has enough range to cover Kherson oblast west of the Dnipr river. Tornado-S MRLS using GLONASS guided rockets have max range 120 km. Also, Mi-17 / Mi-26 air lift helicopters, BTR-82A / BMP-3 / BMD-4 amphibious light tanks, Zubr hovercraft can transport fuel and ammo across Dnipr back and forth.


----------



## DF41

https://****/azmilitary11/18837 
_**** = t dot me_

😆😆😆🥁🥁🥁

Gazprom has published a video with an epic soundtrack "And winter will be big"

Judging by the comments in various channels, the Europeans did not like this video very much.

P.S. It is worth reminding commentators that it was the European Union that imposed sanction

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Dnipr river is only about 400 meters wide. Russian artillery on the east side of the river has enough range to cover Kherson oblast west of the Dnipr river. Tornado-S MRLS using GLONASS guided rockets have max range 120 km. Also, Mi-17 / 26 air lift helicopters, BTR-82A / BMP-3 / BMD-4 amphibious light tanks, hovercraft can transport fuel and ammo across Dnipr back and forth.


Post pictures with hovercraft


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Post pictures with hovercraft











Zubr-class LCAC - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## oberschlesier

The Gas storage in EU is at 81,5% with a daily increase of 0.4%:



Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI



With North Stream turn off, The TTF Gas futures increased today by 12%:




__





ICE Futures and Options | Product Guide


Contracts are for physical delivery through the transfer of rights in respect of Natural Gas at the Title Transfer Facility (TTF) Virtual Trading Point, operated by Gasunie Transport Services (GTS), the transmission system operator in the Netherlands. Delivery is made equally each hour...




www.theice.com







DF41 said:


> https://****/azmilitary11/18837
> _**** = t dot me_
> 
> 😆😆😆🥁🥁🥁
> 
> Gazprom has published a video with an epic soundtrack "And winter will be big"
> 
> Judging by the comments in various channels, the Europeans did not like this video very much.
> 
> P.S. It is worth reminding commentators that it was the European Union that imposed sanction


Gas is not sanctioned. These are counter Sanctions by Russia.
We will see, who has more economic leverage.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566845557913649152


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Zubr-class LCAC - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


On this small craft? Good luck in transporting 3 million litre fuels per day over the river


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566852271098445825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566851757908566021


Viet said:


> On this small craft? Good luck in transporting 3 million litre fuels per day over the river



They use catapults to hurl fuel barrels over river.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566752920724553728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566536104785887237


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566847779854491649
Russian Buk air defense unit annihilated

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566847779854491649
> Russian Buk air defense unit annihilated


Buk-M1 . that piece of equipment really belong to museum not battlefield. it belong to same area with s-200 with one small difference . S-200 several time get upgraded during the years . Buk-M1 was not upgraded at all


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566861140100976640


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566831528700776453


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566829074303049728
> 
> 
> Yanukovych was from Donbas and he was Donbas governor before he became Ukraine president. When Euro Maidan riot ousted Yanukovych Donbas civilians got angry and set up Donbas republic. Although Russia did not recognize Donbas republic until the day after 2022 Beijing Olympics at the insistence of Putin's master Xi.


Civilians can’t declared independence plain and simple


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

HorusRa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566831528700776453



Staged.



RoadAmerica said:


> Civilians can’t declared independence plain and simple



Sure they can. Government of the people, by the people, for the people. It is the Western democratic manifesto.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

Hack-Hook said:


> you think what will happen if federal government say people of California cant use English in school and offices ?


Wrong it would be like saying they can’t use Spanish and nothing would happen



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> America did declare independence from Britain due to high tax.


Lol seriously you’re comparing the revolutionary war with Ukraine 🤦🏿‍♂️


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Wrong it would be like saying they can’t use Spanish and nothing would happen



The US has no official language. Ukraine has.



RoadAmerica said:


> Lol seriously you’re comparing the revolutionary war with Ukraine 🤦🏿‍♂️



Why not?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Staged.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure they can. Government of the people, by the people, for the people. It is the Western democratic manifesto.


I’m about to block your dumb @ss
Once again how old are you? I can’t assume more than 20 with intellect like yours


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566849156819427333

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The US has no official language. Ukraine has.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?


If you can’t see the difference I’m done talking to you. Grow up


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

T-62M tank with coop cage which detonates Javelin missile prematurely above the roof.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566828603345670144


----------



## Vergennes

Russians are really living like cockroaches


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566844433513029632


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566850628206346241


----------



## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566763545550897152




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566712741288624129


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566519533367607299


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566870416072785921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566874297905434626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566876664570716162


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## Hack-Hook

RoadAmerica said:


> Wrong it would be like saying they can’t use Spanish and nothing would happen


wrong majority on those area were Russian speaking people not Ukrainian speaking one so it would be like telling people of California use Spanish instead of English.
its not the question of telling people to use the language of central government , its like telling people from today you can't speak the language you spoke all your life, the language you taught your children and the one your father and mother taught you


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hack-Hook said:


> wrong majority on those area were Russian speaking people not Ukrainian speaking one so it would be like telling people of California use Spanish instead of English



Isn't California Spanish majority?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566508947187666944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566514815920652289


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566508947187666944
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566514815920652289



Russia buy J-16D SEAD plane from China which whacks Buk.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566861330073649152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566855250467848197

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566832570775621632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566838767083716609


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566811029723648001


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566785095557697537


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566891565309730817


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566779930574217216


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566881393174614030

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566873931079983107


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566903741822996480

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566916465663647745




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566916716424269827


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566915176007442433


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566924577711726592


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566934043245035520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566934432614912000

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## RoadAmerica

Hack-Hook said:


> wrong majority on those area were Russian speaking people not Ukrainian speaking one so it would be like telling people of California use Spanish instead of English.
> its not the question of telling people to use the language of central government , its like telling people from today you can't speak the language you spoke all your life, the language you taught your children and the one your father and mother taught you


It doesn’t matter it’s Ukraine and they can decide whatever language they want as the official language, what is so hard to comprehend. Stop using the bs oppressed Russian speakers as a justification for an invasion of a sovereign country



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Isn't California Spanish majority?


No moron


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> No moron



In California Hispanic is the largest ethnic group.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566855237331304449

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566454210882846728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566953420132843522

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566878047545991169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565479943387193350

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## Soldier35

Ukraine received TheMIS robotic systems, Ukrainian media reported. According to press reports, the first instance of such a platform has already been delivered to Ukraine in August this year. THeMIS robotic complexes are produced by the Estonian company Milrem Robotics. THeMIS is a universal unmanned combat platform that allows you to install various weapons on it or use it simply as a vehicle. In Ukraine, THeMIS will be used mainly for the evacuation of the wounded and for the delivery of ammunition. The project for the acquisition of THeMIS robotic complexes for Ukraine was called Zhuravel, it was initiated by the former President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko together with the Ukrainian volunteer medical unit Hospitallers. To date, THeMIS robotic platforms have been acquired by the armed forces of 11 countries for testing.







Russian artillery destroyed a Ukrainian T-64 tank with pinpoint strikes, possibly the tank hit the mines. There is no exact information.

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## Viet

Talking about money

Per a think tank in Finland, 6 months into the war Russia earns 158 billion euros by selling oil, gas and coal. The earning came almost from 2 sources: 85 billion euros from Europe, 35 billion from China.

About expenditure. The war costs Russia more than 100 billion euros. That means Putin just has 58 billion euros remaining for the budget social housing, schools, healthcare, etc.
Good question how Putin will finance the budget if he gets zero or less money from Europe. Or what happens if the oil, gas, coal prices sink. no matter how this war continues the damage to Europe is done.
Europe won’t finance Russia war of aggression.


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566454210882846728
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566953420132843522


Ah yes.
The 100th post on:
Imminent encirclement of ten thousands troops!!!omg!!

what was the russian speed of advance lately? Few km a month?


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Talking about money
> 
> Per a think tank in Finland, 6 months into the war Russia earns 158 billion euros by selling oil, gas and coal. The earning came almost from 2 sources: 85 billion euros from Europe, 35 billion from China.
> 
> About expenditure. The war costs Russia more than 100 billion euros. That means Putin just has 58 billion euros remaining for the budget social housing, schools, healthcare, etc.
> Good question how Putin will finance the budget if he gets zero or less money from Europe. Or what happens if the oil, gas, coal prices sink. no matter how this war continues the damage to Europe is done.
> Europe won’t finance Russia war of aggression.


China buys 300bil worth of oil and gas and if its priced in Rmb, even more. Lolol, that's assuming your math is correct. RUSSIAN reserves increased by 300 bil recently, so if its used to finance the war, where is the 300 bil$ coming from? China is not even actively supplying Russia, if we provide weapons, not even the whole West can help. So better pray hard we don't do that.

Let's use some common sense here, if the current action Russia is taking will destroy Russia, isn't it better to encourage them to continue the war so they get economically destroyed? Just saying.


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## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> Strong indication Russia sends the new established 3rd Army Corps to Ukraine southern front.
> It’s a long way from Mulino, 200 miles east of Moscow.
> Make sure that they are welcomed by Ukraine partisans and Himars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIA SOCIAL MEDIA


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## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> China buys 300bil worth of oil and gas and if its priced in Rmb, even more. Lolol, that's assuming your math is correct. RUSSIAN reserves increased by 300 bil recently, so if its used to finance the war, where is the 300 bil$ coming from? China is not even actively supplying Russia, if we provide weapons, not even the whole West can help. So better pray hard we don't do that.
> 
> Let's use some common sense here, if the current action Russia is taking will destroy Russia, isn't it better to encourage them to continue the war so they get economically destroyed? Just saying.


China is not going to do much cause europe/US are far far more important trade-wise then Russia.
Alienating them would be a hit to chinese economy which is already slowing down due to evergrand/corona shutdowns.
Xi is not going to rock the boat before his re-election.

So no….we dont have to pray for shit all


Also..so much for “china stands for justice and respects sovereignity”. They dropped Ukraine hard. China only really cares for money and power.


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## khansaheeb




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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> China buys 300bil worth of oil and gas and if its priced in Rmb, even more. Lolol, that's assuming your math is correct. RUSSIAN reserves increased by 300 bil recently, so if its used to finance the war, where is the 300 bil$ coming from? China is not even actively supplying Russia, if we provide weapons, not even the whole West can help. So better pray hard we don't do that.
> 
> Let's use some common sense here, if the current action Russia is taking will destroy Russia, isn't it better to encourage them to continue the war so they get economically destroyed? Just saying.


That’s impossible Russia forex increase by $300b. Russia prewar forex stood at $600b then decreased to $300b because half is sanctioned. You buy more however China not buying everything oil and gas from Russia.

About weapons, just a matter of time Beijing will deliver weapons to Russia. Ccp hates the West as much as Putin. Iran, North Korea so why not China on the list Russia gets weapons. So no, we don’t pray that’s anticipated by the West.


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## NotSure

RoadAmerica said:


> Haha blaming someone else, got to say I was just in stuttgart and I won’t be going back. You’ve done a great job ruining your country yourselves. Who’d you vote for last time, let me guess the Green Party


You have no clue about history and geopolitics. Germany is occupied by you angloids since nearly 80 years and you bred this morons here in our country. ALL the big political parties and media outlets here are under transatlantic control. Directly or indirectly. And the Green Party is the party with the tightest british-american control EVER in the history of the BRD. Stupid apparatshiks like Bearbock literally got their so called "education" given in GB for their servility. And all our big polit apparatshiks are members in transatlantic clubs.

And you are really thinking, i have voted for this transatlantic creatures, the Green Party? Plus considering their woke mental illness? Lol...

Long story short: You are acting like the typical angloid, especially the american version. Dumb and uneducated like "drei Meter Feldweg" but with a big mouth and a huge portion of arrogance.

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## NotSure

Congrats Brits, your new prime minister is like the british version of Killary Clinton. But the uneducated and retarded version. If you thought your Boris was bad ...

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## patero

Viet said:


> That’s impossible Russia forex increase by $300b. Russia prewar forex stood at $600b then decreased to $300b because half is sanctioned. You buy more however China not buying everything oil and gas from Russia.
> 
> About weapons, just a matter of time Beijing will deliver weapons to Russia. Ccp hates the West as much as Putin. Iran, North Korea so why not China on the list Russia gets weapons. So no, we don’t pray that’s anticipated by the West.


Russia has spent about 75b of its reserves since the war started, which are now down to 235b. As the sanctions really start to hit and Western Europe gradually shifts its suppliers of oil and gas, the hole in the Russian state budget will continue to grow. So the rate at which they deplete their reserves will increase from the current 12b per month, which gives them a maximum of 20 months before they are basically broke but will likely happen much sooner. Add to this the fact they are shut out of the global bond and money markets due to sanctions and defaults, they won't be able borrow from anywhere to fill their budget deficit.


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## Viet

patero said:


> Russia has spent about 75b of its reserves since the war started, which are now down to 235b. As the sanctions really start to hit and Western Europe gradually shifts its suppliers of oil and gas, the hole in the Russian state budget will continue to grow. So the rate at which they deplete their reserves will increase from the current 12b per month, which gives them a maximum of 20 months before they are basically broke but will likely happen much sooner. Add to this the fact they are shut out of the global bond and money markets due to sanctions and defaults, they won't be able borrow from anywhere to fill their budget deficit.


Swift is cut off. Russia central bank is sanctioned so impossible to do any money transactions with the west. So no. And the west includes Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and many other.

The only source of income for Russia is selling natural resources however the West stops buying or less buying now and in the future.


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## patero

Viet said:


> Swift is cut off. Russia central bank is sanctioned so impossible to do any money transactions with the west. So no. And the west includes Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and many other.
> 
> The only source of income for Russia is selling natural resources however the West stops buying or less buying now and in the future.


And their net revenues from oil and gas are down due to the high ruble and heavy discounting to China and India. Oil prices are also falling, and without Western Europe to sell their oil and gas to there are no viable alternative and accessible markets. China and India will also reach their storage capacity soon, so the squeeze on the Russian economy is only going to get tighter.


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## NotSure

patero said:


> And their net revenues from oil and gas are down due to the high ruble and heavy discounting to China and India. Oil prices are also falling, and without Western Europe to sell their oil and gas to there are no viable alternative and accessible markets. China and India will also reach their storage capacity soon, so the squeeze on the Russian economy is only going to get tighter.


Discounting compared to what prices? I will tell you, because you didn't mentioned it in your propaganda: Compared to the very high prices we have today. So even with the discounts Russia still is making big profits. And the prices will grow and grow in the future, therefore Russia will make more and more money. Even with discounts.



patero said:


> As the sanctions really start to hit and Western Europe gradually shifts its suppliers of oil and gas, the hole in the Russian state budget will continue to grow.



Western Europe is shifting to what exactly? To thin air? Outsmart the laws of physics with woke mental illness and green ideology?

There are simply not enough gas and oil producers in the world, to substitute Russia. So Western Europa has to buy renamed Russian oil and gas and therefore pay a) Russia and +b) China and India and all the other countries, which will buy Russian oil and gas and then sell it to the geniuses here in western Europe.

And by the way: You can't even get your basic facts straight. Not all Europe is shifting away from Russian oil and gas, not even western europe. At this point it's not more than wishfull thinking the EU apparatshiks have, because their masters in Washington and London said so. But winter is coming ...

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> That’s impossible Russia forex increase by $300b. Russia prewar forex stood at $600b then decreased to $300b because half is sanctioned. You buy more however China not buying everything oil and gas from Russia.
> 
> About weapons, just a matter of time Beijing will deliver weapons to Russia. Ccp hates the West as much as Putin. Iran, North Korea so why not China on the list Russia gets weapons. So no, we don’t pray that’s anticipated by the West.


shhhhhh.....Mr Oil and Gas said China bought 300 billion oil and gas from Russia (Or more if you count in RMB, whatever that mean), then China bought 300 billion oil and gas from Russia....Don't you know? He works in Oil and Gas industry, what he said must be true, no need any explanation. 

How dare you challenge Mr Oil and Gas.....lol



patero said:


> Russia has spent about 75b of its reserves since the war started, which are now down to 235b. As the sanctions really start to hit and Western Europe gradually shifts its suppliers of oil and gas, the hole in the Russian state budget will continue to grow. So the rate at which they deplete their reserves will increase from the current 12b per month, which gives them a maximum of 20 months before they are basically broke but will likely happen much sooner. Add to this the fact they are shut out of the global bond and money markets due to sanctions and defaults, they won't be able borrow from anywhere to fill their budget deficit.


Most likely more, don't forget a lot of Russian forexes are in bond, which they cannot exchange even if they have access to it. And the war is costing Russia a lot more than 12 billion a month again because part of those cost is in bond. Which they have to pay for somehow. Russia is likely to have run out of money in a relatively short term, like 6 to 9 months, then they would have to issue bond, depends on how many suckers bought them, they can probably last for another 3 to 6 months, then they will run out of money.


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## patero

jhungary said:


> shhhhhh.....Mr Oil and Gas said China bought 300 billion oil and gas from Russia (Or more if you count in RMB, whatever that mean), then China bought 300 billion oil and gas from Russia....Don't you know? He works in Oil and Gas industry, what he said must be true, no need any explanation.
> 
> How dare you challenge Mr Oil and Gas.....lol
> 
> 
> Most likely more, don't forget a lot of Russian forexes are in bond, which they cannot exchange even if they have access to it. And the war is costing Russia a lot more than 12 billion a month again because part of those cost is in bond. Which they have to pay for somehow. Russia is likely to have run out of money in a relatively short term, like 6 to 9 months, then they would have to issue bond, depends on how many suckers bought them, they can probably last for another 3 to 6 months, then they will run out of money.


Yeah I agree, Russia is burning through more than 12b a month funding the war effort and meeting the 2% budget deficit, 12b per month is just a quick calculation of the 75b they have depleted their reserves by in the 6 months.


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## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


> Discounting compared to what prices? I will tell you, because you didn't mentioned it in your propaganda: Compared to the very high prices we have today. So even with the discounts Russia still is making big profits. And the prices will grow and grow in the future, therefore Russia will make more and more money. Even with discounts.
> 
> 
> 
> Western Europe is shifting to what exactly? To thin air? Outsmart the laws of physics with woke mental illness and green ideology?
> 
> There are simply not enough gas and oil producers in the world, to substitute Russia. So Western Europa has to buy renamed Russian oil and gas and therefore pay a) Russia and +b) China and India and all the other countries, which will buy Russian oil and gas and then sell it to the geniuses here in western Europe.
> 
> And by the way: You can't even get your basic facts straight. Not all Europe is shifting away from Russian oil and gas, not even western europe. At this point it's not more than wishfull thinking the EU apparatshiks have, because their masters in Washington and London said so. But winter is coming ...


Prices will grow and grow??
Last recession gas prices dropped fivefold….

So russia pushing europe (and the world) too hard into recession might very well backfire enormously if europe shows backbone to take some economic hits


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## jhungary

patero said:


> Yeah I agree, Russia is burning through more than 12b a month funding the war effort and meeting the 2% budget deficit, 12b per month is just a quick calculation of the 75b they have depleted their reserves by in the 6 months.


And the artificial rate the Russian set does not help. Effectively, the halved the value of their own currency reserve by putting it twice as high before the war....

If Russia did nothing but simply just finance the war (like no fiscal input in any governmental program and welfare) The Russian are likely to deplete their money before same time next year...



ZeGerman said:


> Prices will grow and grow??
> Last recession gas prices dropped fivefold….
> 
> So russia pushing europe (and the world) too hard into recession might very well backfire enormously if europe shows backbone to take some economic hits


Dude knows nothing about how economy work lol......

Basic principle of economy is drive by the* BALANCE* of supply and demand, too much on either side of the equation is not good for economy. Russia by selectively selling their oil and gas with cheap price will go back to haunt them when the cheap oil and gas saturated the selective market.

But then he will probably say the demand of Russian oil and gas is bottomless.....Well, then we all know who the idiots is...

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## Foinikas

Meanwhile in Britain...

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## Primus

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in Britain...
> 
> View attachment 876599

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## Viet

A German TV team underway with Ukraine troops. They seized Russian open trenches at Cherson and remade them with more comforts with sleeping beds, kitchen.
Compared russians troops that sleep in open that’s like a hotel.


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## DF41

Han Patriot said:


> China is not even actively supplying Russia, if we provide weapons, not even the whole West can help. So better pray hard we don't do that.





Taiwan supplying drones to drop shells to Ukraine via Poland. Likely though the instigations from Murica.

And Murica supplying more and more armaments to Taiwan to provoke war with Murica proxy aka Japan and Taiwan.

China should turn and supply in bulk and quality to Russia especially as Russia is on the front line of the war Murica and NATO want to have with China.









Poland could acquire South Korean K239 Chunmoo rocket launcher systems


Poland could acquire South Korean K239 Chunmoo rocket launcher systems Defense News September 2022 Global Security army industryPOSTED ON SUNDAY, 04 SEPTEMBER 2022 10:53 According to information published by the Polish "Defence24" website on August 27, 2022, during an interview, the Polish...



defence.pk




extract to below
==============================================================

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pola...-rocket-launcher-systems.750267/post-13967543
Add bookmark
#2
Why other countries can supply Ukraine and those countries supporting Ukraine with weapon systems?

Time for China to step in to supply Russia and those on the side of Russia with weapon systems too.

 Especially with *Chinese PCL-191 and FireDragons

details here*

*China's Version of HIMARS, long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), Could Be 'Game Changer' if Beijing Attacks Taiwan*​*China's Version of HIMARS, long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), Could Be 'Game Changer' if Beijing Attacks Taiwan BY ZOE STROZEWSKI ON 8/5/22 AT 1:33 PM EDT long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) that has been described as China's version of the HIMARS could be a "game...
defence.pk*







Anytime Murica want to embarrass themselves by comparing their touted HIMAR to PHL-191?

*HIMAR CANNOT COMPARE IN REACH, AND COMPARE WITH BANG
OR IN CEP
OR COMPARE IN NUMBERS.

The new M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, will bring the total number committed to Ukraine to 16. The light, wheeled multiple rocket launcher allows Ukraine to strike at ranges of 85 kilometers, or 53 miles,

AND REMEMBER CHINA INDUSTRIAL PROWESS CAN CHURN OUT
PHL-191 AND FIREDRAGONS LIKE COOKIES AND DIMSUMS.

CHINA CAN EASILY SUPPLY RUSSIA WITH 10 PHL-191 FOR EVERY 1 HIMARS MURICA GIVING TO UKRAINE

HIMAR IS LIKE USING MUZZLE LOADER BLACK POWDER SINGLE SHOT AGAINST Type 85 heavy machine gun*







After all , Russia is on the frontline of the war waged by Murica and NATO on both of them. Hoping to destroy or weaken Russian prior to taking on China

And also send 100 PCL 191s together with 20,000 Fire Dragons with reach of 350km and CEP of 1 meter ++  

With big missiles, China also got tiny cutie wutie missiles size of cucumbers.
Of much shorter range than the FireDragons.



World first micro missile to hunt snipers, helicopters and armour cars​






https://inf.news/en/military/e216edc4350d07ad049b992cf0b50fd4.html

China should gift Russia with 500 such boxes for a start.






Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?​2022-09-05 18:00 HKT

The development of miniature missile systems has become a new trend in the national defense and military industry. The more famous ones are the American Scorpion, Spear and other micro missiles, and China's QN202 micro missiles. Compared with the US micro-missiles, how strong is the Chinese-made micro-missiles?




*1. What is QN202, and why is it eye-catching?*

At the 2018 Zhuhai Air Show, many cutting-edge military weapons appeared, making the audience dizzy. The QN202 micro missile is one of the more eye-catching weapons at this air show. On the introduction card, it intimately used multiple languages to briefly and concisely introduce to the audience where this miniature missile is and where it is new.




From the appearance, this QN202 is relatively small and exquisite, and the thickness is equivalent to that of an adult's arm. The QN202 mini missile is only 52 cm in size and 1.2 kg in mass, which is basically equivalent to the weight of two bottles of conventional mineral water and is very light.

As can be seen from the pictures uploaded back to the Zhuhai Air Show, QN202 creatively adopts a backpack-style design. The backpack-like storage for individual soldiers makes carrying missiles as easy and fast as students carrying their schoolbags to school. It is expected to greatly increase the speed of assembly of soldiers on the battlefield, thereby improving combat efficiency. A soldier's backpack can carry six QN202 micro missiles. If the soldier holds another one, then one person can carry seven mini-missiles. This type of micro missile system is flexible, easy to carry, and has advantages that traditional missile systems cannot match in the past.




QN202 manufacturer AutoNavi is a private enterprise based in Wuhan Optics Valley. Although the name is similar to AutoNavi Software Co., Ltd., which developed the AutoNavi map, the two companies are actually not the same. AutoNavi Infrared mainly produced infrared thermal imaging products, such as infrared thermal imaging cameras. In 2014, this company creatively obtained the overall development qualification for a certain type of new and complete weapon system, setting a precedent for a private enterprise, and it can be described as a great success.

QN202 is a successful innovation attempt by a Chinese company, adding to the field of R&D and manufacturing of China's micro-missiles. Following the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation's 63.5 cm "Rainbow" miniature precision attack missile, China's miniature missile has opened a new chapter, adding QN202, a new force from private enterprises.




*2. With a small body and great power, are micro missiles really useful?*

The miniature missiles have shrunk in size, will their functions also be weakened, and can't they be used in modern battlefields? The answer is of course no.
Another big idea of QN202 is the use of gun-type launchers. In the past, miniature missiles such as "Rainbow" were mainly used on drones and were not considered for individual combat. The QN202 is light and portable, and the matched gun-type launcher makes it possible for individual soldiers to launch missiles in hand.





This gun launcher weighs about 1.2 kg, while a single soldier backpack full of QN202 weighs 7.2 kg. The total weight of the entire device is only 8.4 kg, which is light and labor-saving, and easy to carry.
The gun launcher of the QN202 is similar to an ordinary military assault rifle and has an aiming display similar to a gun sight. The display can display the images transmitted by the missile seeker, and is also equipped with a fore grip, a target indication system, and a retractable support.
On the actual battlefield, soldiers can use the transmitter to launch QN202 by operating the controller with their left hand. The familiar design reduces the difficulty of operating this new miniature self-seeking missile system for individual soldiers in actual combat in a sense, and enables soldiers to use new weapons more quickly.





Of course, QN202 is not only used for individual combat, it can also be carried on the popular UAV for military strikes. Take the WS30 micro drone independently developed by AutoNavi Infrared as an example. In order to cooperate with the QN202 micro missile, it is equipped with a special barrel device. This drone alone can carry four QN202 micro missiles into it. Enemy line.
The application of miniature drones and miniature self-seeking missiles may be the embodiment of the technological charm of the age of science and technology. It does not require the soldiers of the People's Liberation Army to take risks or snipers. When the QN202 micro missile is mounted on a UAV, it can use semi-active laser guidance to guide the enemy. Such a high-tech combination can replace individual soldiers to go deep into dangerous places, complete more arduous combat missions, and avoid unnecessary casualties.

At the Zhuhai Air Show, there was such a phrase "don't care after launch" in the introduction column of QN202. What does it mean? In fact, no matter after launch, it means that QN202 does not require special laser irradiation, and only needs to use the scope on the gun transmitter to complete one-key lock.




As long as the operator completes the step of locking the target, there is no need to do any extra operations on the QN202 missile. Once the target is locked , QN202 can be launched automatically without any guidance. The QN202 has a range of 2 kilometers. As long as the enemy is within 2 kilometers, whether the enemy is light armor or a vivid target, the QN202 can effectively strike it.

And not to forget China drones and suicide drones

To take out the enemies of both Russia and China





and https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pola...-rocket-launcher-systems.750267/post-13968744
=================================================
I love to see Chinese weapon systems in real actual use against Murican supplied and touted to high heaven.

Ukraine war will end very very fast

When dozens of PCL 191 and Firedragons with reach of 350km and CEP of 1 meter ++  

Against that of HIMARS used by *Ukraine to strike at ranges of 85 kilometers, or 53 miles,*

And sniper duels between mercenaries and Nazis using Barrett XM109 that weigh 15 kg unloaded.

And that of Russian snipers using QN202 light and portable, and the matched gun-type launcher makes it possible for individual soldiers to launch missiles in hand.

This gun launcher weighs about 1.2 kg, while a single soldier backpack full of QN202 weighs 7.2 kg. The total weight of the entire device is only 8.4 kg, which is light and labor-saving, and easy to carry.

And China to further supply 60 boxes of below to Russia to start with



That was written 2 years ago in Oct 2020.

And that CH 901 first emerged in 2016.

I presume that CH 901 becoming even more sexy in the last couple of years.





China Conducts Test Of Massive Suicide Drone Swarm Launched From A Box On A Truck​China shows off its ability to rapidly launch 48 weaponized drones from the back of a truck, as well as from helicopter









China Conducts Test Of Massive Suicide Drone Swarm Launched From A Box On A Truck


China shows off its ability to rapidly launch 48 weaponized drones from the back of a truck, as well as from helicopters.




www.thedrive.com





So while Russian and Allied snipers take their tea breaks, de nazifications and de militarizations and sending of Darwin Awards can still be carried out.

*AND ANYTIME MURICA AND NATO WANT TO SEND MORE WEAPONS TO NAZIS, CHINA WILL RECIPROCRATE MANY TIMES MORE.
THE BEST AND ONLY WAY TO REAL PEACE IN UKRAINE.

ANYTIME MURICA AND NATO AND JAPAN WANT TO TANGO OVER TAIWAN, PLEASE DO SO*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567112118415024129


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567064948244635653

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567042717628211200


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566972348431048704
Russia now having to purchase artillery shells and rockets from North Korea. Talk about desperate

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566972348431048704
> Russia now having to purchase artillery shells and rockets from North Korea. Talk about desperate



Picture or it's fake.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566972348431048704
> Russia now having to purchase artillery shells and rockets from North Korea. Talk about desperate



Buying shells from North Korea that are probably in ever poorer condition than yours,buying drones from Iran. So much for the "world's second most powerful army".


----------



## Wood




----------



## ZeGerman

DF41 said:


> Taiwan supplying drones to drop shells to Ukraine via Poland. Likely though the instigations from Murica.
> 
> And Murica supplying more and more armaments to Taiwan to provoke war with Murica proxy aka Japan and Taiwan.
> 
> China should turn and supply in bulk and quality to Russia especially as Russia is on the front line of the war Murica and NATO want to have with China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poland could acquire South Korean K239 Chunmoo rocket launcher systems
> 
> 
> Poland could acquire South Korean K239 Chunmoo rocket launcher systems Defense News September 2022 Global Security army industryPOSTED ON SUNDAY, 04 SEPTEMBER 2022 10:53 According to information published by the Polish "Defence24" website on August 27, 2022, during an interview, the Polish...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> extract to below
> ==============================================================
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pola...-rocket-launcher-systems.750267/post-13967543
> Add bookmark
> #2
> Why other countries can supply Ukraine and those countries supporting Ukraine with weapon systems?
> 
> Time for China to step in to supply Russia and those on the side of Russia with weapon systems too.
> 
> Especially with *Chinese PCL-191 and FireDragons
> 
> details here*
> 
> *China's Version of HIMARS, long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), Could Be 'Game Changer' if Beijing Attacks Taiwan*​*China's Version of HIMARS, long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), Could Be 'Game Changer' if Beijing Attacks Taiwan BY ZOE STROZEWSKI ON 8/5/22 AT 1:33 PM EDT long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) that has been described as China's version of the HIMARS could be a "game...
> defence.pk*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime Murica want to embarrass themselves by comparing their touted HIMAR to PHL-191?
> 
> *HIMAR CANNOT COMPARE IN REACH, AND COMPARE WITH BANG
> OR IN CEP
> OR COMPARE IN NUMBERS.
> 
> The new M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, will bring the total number committed to Ukraine to 16. The light, wheeled multiple rocket launcher allows Ukraine to strike at ranges of 85 kilometers, or 53 miles,
> 
> AND REMEMBER CHINA INDUSTRIAL PROWESS CAN CHURN OUT
> PHL-191 AND FIREDRAGONS LIKE COOKIES AND DIMSUMS.
> 
> CHINA CAN EASILY SUPPLY RUSSIA WITH 10 PHL-191 FOR EVERY 1 HIMARS MURICA GIVING TO UKRAINE
> 
> HIMAR IS LIKE USING MUZZLE LOADER BLACK POWDER SINGLE SHOT AGAINST Type 85 heavy machine gun*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all , Russia is on the frontline of the war waged by Murica and NATO on both of them. Hoping to destroy or weaken Russian prior to taking on China
> 
> And also send 100 PCL 191s together with 20,000 Fire Dragons with reach of 350km and CEP of 1 meter ++
> 
> With big missiles, China also got tiny cutie wutie missiles size of cucumbers.
> Of much shorter range than the FireDragons.
> 
> 
> 
> World first micro missile to hunt snipers, helicopters and armour cars​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://inf.news/en/military/e216edc4350d07ad049b992cf0b50fd4.html
> 
> China should gift Russia with 500 such boxes for a start.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?​2022-09-05 18:00 HKT
> 
> The development of miniature missile systems has become a new trend in the national defense and military industry. The more famous ones are the American Scorpion, Spear and other micro missiles, and China's QN202 micro missiles. Compared with the US micro-missiles, how strong is the Chinese-made micro-missiles?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1. What is QN202, and why is it eye-catching?*
> 
> At the 2018 Zhuhai Air Show, many cutting-edge military weapons appeared, making the audience dizzy. The QN202 micro missile is one of the more eye-catching weapons at this air show. On the introduction card, it intimately used multiple languages to briefly and concisely introduce to the audience where this miniature missile is and where it is new.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the appearance, this QN202 is relatively small and exquisite, and the thickness is equivalent to that of an adult's arm. The QN202 mini missile is only 52 cm in size and 1.2 kg in mass, which is basically equivalent to the weight of two bottles of conventional mineral water and is very light.
> 
> As can be seen from the pictures uploaded back to the Zhuhai Air Show, QN202 creatively adopts a backpack-style design. The backpack-like storage for individual soldiers makes carrying missiles as easy and fast as students carrying their schoolbags to school. It is expected to greatly increase the speed of assembly of soldiers on the battlefield, thereby improving combat efficiency. A soldier's backpack can carry six QN202 micro missiles. If the soldier holds another one, then one person can carry seven mini-missiles. This type of micro missile system is flexible, easy to carry, and has advantages that traditional missile systems cannot match in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QN202 manufacturer AutoNavi is a private enterprise based in Wuhan Optics Valley. Although the name is similar to AutoNavi Software Co., Ltd., which developed the AutoNavi map, the two companies are actually not the same. AutoNavi Infrared mainly produced infrared thermal imaging products, such as infrared thermal imaging cameras. In 2014, this company creatively obtained the overall development qualification for a certain type of new and complete weapon system, setting a precedent for a private enterprise, and it can be described as a great success.
> 
> QN202 is a successful innovation attempt by a Chinese company, adding to the field of R&D and manufacturing of China's micro-missiles. Following the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation's 63.5 cm "Rainbow" miniature precision attack missile, China's miniature missile has opened a new chapter, adding QN202, a new force from private enterprises.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2. With a small body and great power, are micro missiles really useful?*
> 
> The miniature missiles have shrunk in size, will their functions also be weakened, and can't they be used in modern battlefields? The answer is of course no.
> Another big idea of QN202 is the use of gun-type launchers. In the past, miniature missiles such as "Rainbow" were mainly used on drones and were not considered for individual combat. The QN202 is light and portable, and the matched gun-type launcher makes it possible for individual soldiers to launch missiles in hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This gun launcher weighs about 1.2 kg, while a single soldier backpack full of QN202 weighs 7.2 kg. The total weight of the entire device is only 8.4 kg, which is light and labor-saving, and easy to carry.
> The gun launcher of the QN202 is similar to an ordinary military assault rifle and has an aiming display similar to a gun sight. The display can display the images transmitted by the missile seeker, and is also equipped with a fore grip, a target indication system, and a retractable support.
> On the actual battlefield, soldiers can use the transmitter to launch QN202 by operating the controller with their left hand. The familiar design reduces the difficulty of operating this new miniature self-seeking missile system for individual soldiers in actual combat in a sense, and enables soldiers to use new weapons more quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, QN202 is not only used for individual combat, it can also be carried on the popular UAV for military strikes. Take the WS30 micro drone independently developed by AutoNavi Infrared as an example. In order to cooperate with the QN202 micro missile, it is equipped with a special barrel device. This drone alone can carry four QN202 micro missiles into it. Enemy line.
> The application of miniature drones and miniature self-seeking missiles may be the embodiment of the technological charm of the age of science and technology. It does not require the soldiers of the People's Liberation Army to take risks or snipers. When the QN202 micro missile is mounted on a UAV, it can use semi-active laser guidance to guide the enemy. Such a high-tech combination can replace individual soldiers to go deep into dangerous places, complete more arduous combat missions, and avoid unnecessary casualties.
> 
> At the Zhuhai Air Show, there was such a phrase "don't care after launch" in the introduction column of QN202. What does it mean? In fact, no matter after launch, it means that QN202 does not require special laser irradiation, and only needs to use the scope on the gun transmitter to complete one-key lock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As long as the operator completes the step of locking the target, there is no need to do any extra operations on the QN202 missile. Once the target is locked , QN202 can be launched automatically without any guidance. The QN202 has a range of 2 kilometers. As long as the enemy is within 2 kilometers, whether the enemy is light armor or a vivid target, the QN202 can effectively strike it.
> 
> And not to forget China drones and suicide drones
> 
> To take out the enemies of both Russia and China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pola...-rocket-launcher-systems.750267/post-13968744
> =================================================
> I love to see Chinese weapon systems in real actual use against Murican supplied and touted to high heaven.
> 
> Ukraine war will end very very fast
> 
> When dozens of PCL 191 and Firedragons with reach of 350km and CEP of 1 meter ++
> 
> Against that of HIMARS used by *Ukraine to strike at ranges of 85 kilometers, or 53 miles,*
> 
> And sniper duels between mercenaries and Nazis using Barrett XM109 that weigh 15 kg unloaded.
> 
> And that of Russian snipers using QN202 light and portable, and the matched gun-type launcher makes it possible for individual soldiers to launch missiles in hand.
> 
> This gun launcher weighs about 1.2 kg, while a single soldier backpack full of QN202 weighs 7.2 kg. The total weight of the entire device is only 8.4 kg, which is light and labor-saving, and easy to carry.
> 
> And China to further supply 60 boxes of below to Russia to start with
> 
> 
> 
> That was written 2 years ago in Oct 2020.
> 
> And that CH 901 first emerged in 2016.
> 
> I presume that CH 901 becoming even more sexy in the last couple of years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China Conducts Test Of Massive Suicide Drone Swarm Launched From A Box On A Truck​China shows off its ability to rapidly launch 48 weaponized drones from the back of a truck, as well as from helicopter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China Conducts Test Of Massive Suicide Drone Swarm Launched From A Box On A Truck
> 
> 
> China shows off its ability to rapidly launch 48 weaponized drones from the back of a truck, as well as from helicopters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So while Russian and Allied snipers take their tea breaks, de nazifications and de militarizations and sending of Darwin Awards can still be carried out.
> 
> *AND ANYTIME MURICA AND NATO WANT TO SEND MORE WEAPONS TO NAZIS, CHINA WILL RECIPROCRATE MANY TIMES MORE.
> THE BEST AND ONLY WAY TO REAL PEACE IN UKRAINE.
> 
> ANYTIME MURICA AND NATO AND JAPAN WANT TO TANGO OVER TAIWAN, PLEASE DO SO*


Please add “on paper”, “as claimed by china” and “in theory” on everything of the above. 

So far china is an untested army, with weapons that have yet to see true combat. 


And as for sending weapons to russia? China will not do so seeing as how western trade and risk of losing that outweighs helping russia to not become the next north korea. 
Hell..having russia collapse might even be beneficial to China.


----------



## aziqbal

Is Russia running out of steam 

No gains and actually some loss of ground in last few weeks

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567148134928711681


----------



## Viet

Vergennes said:


> Buying shells from North Korea that are probably in ever poorer condition than yours,buying drones from Iran. So much for the "world's second most powerful army".


I believe have predicted in a first week of invasion: Putin will ask China for delivery of ready to eat meals REM. The PLA will send tons of delicious foods near expiration dates.
Will be interesting to observe Russian soldiers hiding in trenches, eating chinese foods with chopsticks.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567087994514948098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567123923828875264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567104511105241088
More Russian armor destroyed

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567153946355015692

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567154073639550979
The Russians are getting pushed back near Izyum


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567155713801158656

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567154961951105024


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567155519302893568

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## DF41

https://****/Slavyangrad/7252
_**** = t dot me_
🥁🥁🥁. 

Slavyangrad:
⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine (September 6, 2022)

Part 1 (read Part 2)

◽️ The Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) continued their attempts to attack several areas of Nikolayev-Krivoy Rog direction.

Russian Aerospace Forces, missile troops and artillery launch high-precision attacks at AFU units and reserve forces.

💥 Manpower and military equipment at the provisional bases of 61st Infantry Brigade, 35th Marines Brigade and 17th Tank Brigade of the AFU have been neutralised near Visunsk, Yavkino, Bereznegovatoye and Chervonopolye.

💥 3 depots of missiles, artillery armament and munitions have been destroyed near Velikoye Artakovo (Nikolayev region).

💥 Launch of Kalibr high-precision long-range sea-based missiles has resulted in the elimination of a large fuel depot intended for Ukrainian troops at Nikolayevo-Krivoy Rog direction near Karpovka (Dnepropetrovsk region).

💥 Fighter aviation of Russian Aerospace Forces and air defence means have shot down 3 Su-25 airplanes of Ukrainian Air Force. 1 Su-25 has been shot down near Snigiryovka and 2 Su-25 have been shot down near Mirnoye (Nikolayev region).

📊 The enemy has lost a total of 12 tanks, 11 infantry combat vehicles and 8 other armoured vehicles, 6 pick-ups with large-calibre machine guns and over 210 servicemen at Nikolayev-Krivoy Rog direction.

💥 High-precision air-based armament has neutralised the provisional bases of the units from 54th and 93rd mechanised brigades of the AFU near Artyomovsk (Donetsk People's Republic). Up to 250 servicemen and over 10 motor and armoured vehicles have been eliminated.

✈️ High-precision attacks of Russian Aerospace Forces launched at the provisional bases of 1st Battalion from 65th Mechanised Brigade of the AFU have resulted in the elimination of up to 100 servicemen and 15 units of military equipment near Veselyanka (Zaporozhye region).

▫️Due to high losses and discontinued rotation, the personnel of 53rd Mechanised Brigade of the AFU that operated near Zaytsevo (Donetsk People's Republic) refuses to fulfil combat tasks and abandons its positions in groups.

Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery continue launching attacks at the military facilities in Ukraine.

💥 3 AFU command posts, including one of 14th Mechanised Brigade near Kamennaya Yaruga (Kharkov region), a command and observation post of a battalion from 102nd Territorial Defence Brigade near Poltavka (Zaporozhye region), as well as 52 artillery units and 161 AFU manpower and military equipment concentration areas.

💥 1 launching ramp of Buk-M1 Ukrainian air defence system has been destroyed near Grigorovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

💥 Air defence means have shot down 12 unmanned aerial vehicles near Yakovenkovo, Kapitolovka, Liptsy (Kharkov region), Kirillovka, Sladkoye, Valeryanovka, Novoandreyevka (Donetsk People's Republic), Skadovsk (Kherson region) and Kherson.

💥 1 Tochka-U ballistic missile has been intercepted near Popasnaya (Lugansk People's Republic) and 11 projectiles launched by U.S.-manufactured HIMARS multiple rocket-launching system have been intercepted near Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant.

📊 In total, 290 airplanes and 152 helicopters, 1,889 unmanned aerial vehicles, 373 air defence missile systems, 4,845 tanks and other armoured combat vehicles, 825 combat vehicles equipped with MRLS, 3,369 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 5,343 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #report
@mod_russia_en

⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine (September 6, 2022)

Part 2 (read Part 1)

⚠️ Kiev regime continues its provocations at Zaporozhye power plant aimed at creating a possible technological disaster.

◽️ 15 artillery attacks launched at the city of Energodar and Zaporozhye power plant by AFU have been recorded over the past 24 hours.

📊 Ukrainian artillery has launched a total of 20 projectiles, including 3 of them at the nuclear power plant. One of the projectiles has impacted the roof of the special building №1, the second has impacted the area between the special building №1 and the second power generator, the third has exploded near the tankers designed for storaging distilled water near the power plant №2.

💥 The fire was being conducted from Ukrainian positions deployed near Marganets (Dnepropetrovsk region). AFU units have been neutralised by a counter-attack launched by Russian artillery.

◽️ The radiation environment at the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant remains normal.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #report
@mod_russia_en

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Viet

Liz Truss becomes UK prime minister and as reaction to her election the Russian propaganda runs amok.
Sergei Lavrov, the liar, will regret. he insulted her in public when she met him in Moscow days before invasion.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566783439088615429


----------



## Vergennes

No need to panic on Kharkiv front it seems.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567156330628091906


Spoiler: graphicf





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567155200837783553





Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567131103768752135



Russians tried to assault an Ukrainian position but things didn't go as planned


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567163924348375045

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567165031166386176
Russian forces retreating near Izyum

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567176216288923648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567180882376642561


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567182545350950913

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567180750469926912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567181297071661059

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567181355942903810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567179851479531520

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567167747984949250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567168188663619586


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567194634383679497


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567164073145425931

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567164572934496256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567146523019862018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567056575843516417


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567198415192211456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567198128306012162


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567188109032390657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567148469474791424

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567202803780575239


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567206044241215490
4 HIMARS


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567192707327475718

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567185338103205888

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567111591677624321


----------



## The SC




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567214789457334274


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567220459074162689

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567206044241215490
> 4 HIMARS


They are being launched at very sharp angles


----------



## F-22Raptor

Beny Karachun said:


> They are being launched at very sharp angles


Russian front line positions probably


----------



## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian front line positions probably


I think they're firing from close ranges quickly after target designation to compensate for target movement.


----------



## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566972348431048704
> Russia now having to purchase artillery shells and rockets from North Korea. Talk about desperate


but stupid Ukranian military is using Iranian shells, SO NOW WHAT??? what have you proven? lmao.


----------



## Beny Karachun

925boy said:


> but stupid Ukranian military is using Iranian shells, SO NOW WHAT??? what have you proven? lmao.


Ukrainian military was given captured Iranian equipment. Russia, with the allegedly robust military industry, shouldn't rely on North Korea. Ukraine can be given a pass.


----------



## 925boy

Beny Karachun said:


> Russia, with the allegedly robust military industry, shouldn't rely on North Korea. Ukraine can be given a pass.


is Russia actually relying on North Korean weapons, (just like you all lied and said Russia ran out of Ammunition like months ago), or is Western propaganda telling u Russia is running out of ammunition?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

‘Great news’ coming from Kharkiv counteroffensive, says Ukraine official - National | Globalnews.ca


Several posts in social media from military bloggers and witnesses reported fighting around Balakliia, a town of 27,000 people that lies between the cities of Kharkiv and Izyum.




globalnews.ca


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567224604510273538


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

If only the US would provide:

200 Abrams
300 Bradley’s 
50-75 M109s

The US has 5,000+ Bradley’s and Abrams just sitting in storage.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## HorusRa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567220459074162689


LMAO

Im curious to hear what Vatniks have to say about this 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567230771026432001
Slava Ukraini!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567241112812658690

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567249984826785792

You can imagine if the US was involved

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Talking about money
> 
> Per a think tank in Finland, 6 months into the war Russia earns 158 billion euros by selling oil, gas and coal. The earning came almost from 2 sources: 85 billion euros from Europe, 35 billion from China.
> 
> About expenditure. The war costs Russia more than 100 billion euros. That means Putin just has 58 billion euros remaining for the budget social housing, schools, healthcare, etc.
> Good question how Putin will finance the budget if he gets zero or less money from Europe. Or what happens if the oil, gas, coal prices sink. no matter how this war continues the damage to Europe is done.
> Europe won’t finance Russia war of aggression.


a question , how Russia spend 100billion euro on the war in just 6 month while they primary use artillery rockets and iron bombs ?

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## oberschlesier

Hack-Hook said:


> a question , how Russia spend 100billion euro on the war in just 6 month while they primary use artillery rockets and iron bombs ?


Offshore accounts.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567219026056585220

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567240957682139138


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567266822566690817




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567270667464089600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567266270290087949

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567218259266527233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567202803780575239

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## F-22Raptor

The Russian Air Force has been nonexistent since May. Somehow, they’ve put up a worse performance than their Army.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russian Air Force has been nonexistent since May. Somehow, they’ve put up a worse performance than their Army.



Russia only deployed 1% of army. 99% of man power is rebels.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567233842938798082


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567257711133265924


----------



## aviator_fan

DF41 said:


> https://****/NovichokRossiya/9833
> _**** = t dot me_
> 
> 💀💀💀🥁🥁🥁
> 
> ☝️👆☝️👆☝️👆
> The bloody failure of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Kherson: the girl of the Armed Forces of Ukraine spoke about the horrific losses in the Odessa group
> 
> “My loved one was thrown 2 days ago without anything on tanks and artillery, then their unit was taken back, giving 1 day to rest (before death). What he himself says: “They were going to send us back yesterday, they promised support and a bunch of everything, everyone refused. This is straight f*ck, I can’t find another word, another cauldron in which thousands of people died over these months. It’s the same in other units, one of ours was sent to the 18th battalion, then we saw his video on Facebook, where he tells in tears that out of his company (about 100 people) 7 survived, and out of the entire battalion (about 800 people .) there are no more than 150 left. The corpses of those who manage to be taken out of the battlefield disappear - while they were transporting back and forth the body was lost, and now it is listed as missing.
> All these actions of our "high commanders" seem strange and I have only 2 assumptions why this happens - either working for the enemy, or stupidly stealing the dough allocated to us in the form of assistance. Now all the fighters are sitting and thinking how to make all this tin publicity."


Your source is some show you claim you watched that you share as actionable information. 
At least share the claims that a pro-Putin that claims Russinas are superhumans and are defending themselves may have put forth. At least then the fabrication went on a twitter handle.
Instead of wasting your time here (where you accomplish nothing) you could work for KGB and its cyber team to promote these stories. They are good and they will reach the audience thats looking for lots of news (doesn't matter if its true or not)



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If need be.


Need is here now. If Russia doesn't need them now when do you think they need them. Pls manufacture these tanks and send them and stop the lockdowns in your 4 industrial cities. At least keep up with the Iranians instead of shutting a city of tens of millions with 2 cases positive



F-22Raptor said:


> The Russian Air Force has been nonexistent since May. Somehow, they’ve put up a worse performance than their Army.


its what happens when you train to less than 100 hours of flight time. Its the opposite of 'train like you fight and fight like you train'. I have friends that are private pilots that log more time than that.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567309562734157824


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567217248229629954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567226875738562564


----------



## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> China is not going to do much cause europe/US are far far more important trade-wise then Russia.
> Alienating them would be a hit to chinese economy which is already slowing down due to evergrand/corona shutdowns.
> Xi is not going to rock the boat before his re-election.
> 
> So no….we dont have to pray for shit all
> 
> 
> Also..so much for “china stands for justice and respects sovereignity”. They dropped Ukraine hard. China only really cares for money and power.


It depends on national interest, we don't agree on Russia invading Ukriane, but we don't agree on NATO expanding either. Therefore we proposed that Ukraine sign a neutrality pact with Russia but it seems nobody gave a damn and hence we are in this mess now. And we don't agree on unilateral sanctions on sovereign states, because we buy oil and gas from Russia. Systemically, we depend on the West because its their system but if you talk about hard core resources, Russia is more important.dont forget the West is trying to destroy China too, so wht should we help the West?



Viet said:


> That’s impossible Russia forex increase by $300b. Russia prewar forex stood at $600b then decreased to $300b because half is sanctioned. You buy more however China not buying everything oil and gas from Russia.
> 
> About weapons, just a matter of time Beijing will deliver weapons to Russia. Ccp hates the West as much as Putin. Iran, North Korea so why not China on the list Russia gets weapons. So no, we don’t pray that’s anticipated by the West.


Just Google and check the latest Russian forex increase. Thanks to the price increase, Russia gained more forex in this 6 months than their lost 300bil$.

Well, the floodgates aren't even open yet matey. If we start building warships for Russia, not even your Papa USA can compete. We essentially launch the same number of destroyers in a year the whole Indian navy has. That's why its stupid to push Russia to China. With Russia, a multilateral world can be created, imagine Russia in Nato, we would be dead long ago. All the whitey gang banging China. That's my biggest nightmare. Stupidest strategic mistake, I was more afraid of Trump.


----------



## Han Patriot

DF41 said:


> Taiwan supplying drones to drop shells to Ukraine via Poland. Likely though the instigations from Murica.
> 
> And Murica supplying more and more armaments to Taiwan to provoke war with Murica proxy aka Japan and Taiwan.
> 
> China should turn and supply in bulk and quality to Russia especially as Russia is on the front line of the war Murica and NATO want to have with China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poland could acquire South Korean K239 Chunmoo rocket launcher systems
> 
> 
> Poland could acquire South Korean K239 Chunmoo rocket launcher systems Defense News September 2022 Global Security army industryPOSTED ON SUNDAY, 04 SEPTEMBER 2022 10:53 According to information published by the Polish "Defence24" website on August 27, 2022, during an interview, the Polish...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> extract to below
> ==============================================================
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pola...-rocket-launcher-systems.750267/post-13967543
> Add bookmark
> #2
> Why other countries can supply Ukraine and those countries supporting Ukraine with weapon systems?
> 
> Time for China to step in to supply Russia and those on the side of Russia with weapon systems too.
> 
> Especially with *Chinese PCL-191 and FireDragons
> 
> details here*
> 
> *China's Version of HIMARS, long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), Could Be 'Game Changer' if Beijing Attacks Taiwan*​*China's Version of HIMARS, long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), Could Be 'Game Changer' if Beijing Attacks Taiwan BY ZOE STROZEWSKI ON 8/5/22 AT 1:33 PM EDT long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) that has been described as China's version of the HIMARS could be a "game...
> defence.pk*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime Murica want to embarrass themselves by comparing their touted HIMAR to PHL-191?
> 
> *HIMAR CANNOT COMPARE IN REACH, AND COMPARE WITH BANG
> OR IN CEP
> OR COMPARE IN NUMBERS.
> 
> The new M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, will bring the total number committed to Ukraine to 16. The light, wheeled multiple rocket launcher allows Ukraine to strike at ranges of 85 kilometers, or 53 miles,
> 
> AND REMEMBER CHINA INDUSTRIAL PROWESS CAN CHURN OUT
> PHL-191 AND FIREDRAGONS LIKE COOKIES AND DIMSUMS.
> 
> CHINA CAN EASILY SUPPLY RUSSIA WITH 10 PHL-191 FOR EVERY 1 HIMARS MURICA GIVING TO UKRAINE
> 
> HIMAR IS LIKE USING MUZZLE LOADER BLACK POWDER SINGLE SHOT AGAINST Type 85 heavy machine gun*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all , Russia is on the frontline of the war waged by Murica and NATO on both of them. Hoping to destroy or weaken Russian prior to taking on China
> 
> And also send 100 PCL 191s together with 20,000 Fire Dragons with reach of 350km and CEP of 1 meter ++
> 
> With big missiles, China also got tiny cutie wutie missiles size of cucumbers.
> Of much shorter range than the FireDragons.
> 
> 
> 
> World first micro missile to hunt snipers, helicopters and armour cars​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://inf.news/en/military/e216edc4350d07ad049b992cf0b50fd4.html
> 
> China should gift Russia with 500 such boxes for a start.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?​2022-09-05 18:00 HKT
> 
> The development of miniature missile systems has become a new trend in the national defense and military industry. The more famous ones are the American Scorpion, Spear and other micro missiles, and China's QN202 micro missiles. Compared with the US micro-missiles, how strong is the Chinese-made micro-missiles?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1. What is QN202, and why is it eye-catching?*
> 
> At the 2018 Zhuhai Air Show, many cutting-edge military weapons appeared, making the audience dizzy. The QN202 micro missile is one of the more eye-catching weapons at this air show. On the introduction card, it intimately used multiple languages to briefly and concisely introduce to the audience where this miniature missile is and where it is new.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the appearance, this QN202 is relatively small and exquisite, and the thickness is equivalent to that of an adult's arm. The QN202 mini missile is only 52 cm in size and 1.2 kg in mass, which is basically equivalent to the weight of two bottles of conventional mineral water and is very light.
> 
> As can be seen from the pictures uploaded back to the Zhuhai Air Show, QN202 creatively adopts a backpack-style design. The backpack-like storage for individual soldiers makes carrying missiles as easy and fast as students carrying their schoolbags to school. It is expected to greatly increase the speed of assembly of soldiers on the battlefield, thereby improving combat efficiency. A soldier's backpack can carry six QN202 micro missiles. If the soldier holds another one, then one person can carry seven mini-missiles. This type of micro missile system is flexible, easy to carry, and has advantages that traditional missile systems cannot match in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QN202 manufacturer AutoNavi is a private enterprise based in Wuhan Optics Valley. Although the name is similar to AutoNavi Software Co., Ltd., which developed the AutoNavi map, the two companies are actually not the same. AutoNavi Infrared mainly produced infrared thermal imaging products, such as infrared thermal imaging cameras. In 2014, this company creatively obtained the overall development qualification for a certain type of new and complete weapon system, setting a precedent for a private enterprise, and it can be described as a great success.
> 
> QN202 is a successful innovation attempt by a Chinese company, adding to the field of R&D and manufacturing of China's micro-missiles. Following the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation's 63.5 cm "Rainbow" miniature precision attack missile, China's miniature missile has opened a new chapter, adding QN202, a new force from private enterprises.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2. With a small body and great power, are micro missiles really useful?*
> 
> The miniature missiles have shrunk in size, will their functions also be weakened, and can't they be used in modern battlefields? The answer is of course no.
> Another big idea of QN202 is the use of gun-type launchers. In the past, miniature missiles such as "Rainbow" were mainly used on drones and were not considered for individual combat. The QN202 is light and portable, and the matched gun-type launcher makes it possible for individual soldiers to launch missiles in hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This gun launcher weighs about 1.2 kg, while a single soldier backpack full of QN202 weighs 7.2 kg. The total weight of the entire device is only 8.4 kg, which is light and labor-saving, and easy to carry.
> The gun launcher of the QN202 is similar to an ordinary military assault rifle and has an aiming display similar to a gun sight. The display can display the images transmitted by the missile seeker, and is also equipped with a fore grip, a target indication system, and a retractable support.
> On the actual battlefield, soldiers can use the transmitter to launch QN202 by operating the controller with their left hand. The familiar design reduces the difficulty of operating this new miniature self-seeking missile system for individual soldiers in actual combat in a sense, and enables soldiers to use new weapons more quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, QN202 is not only used for individual combat, it can also be carried on the popular UAV for military strikes. Take the WS30 micro drone independently developed by AutoNavi Infrared as an example. In order to cooperate with the QN202 micro missile, it is equipped with a special barrel device. This drone alone can carry four QN202 micro missiles into it. Enemy line.
> The application of miniature drones and miniature self-seeking missiles may be the embodiment of the technological charm of the age of science and technology. It does not require the soldiers of the People's Liberation Army to take risks or snipers. When the QN202 micro missile is mounted on a UAV, it can use semi-active laser guidance to guide the enemy. Such a high-tech combination can replace individual soldiers to go deep into dangerous places, complete more arduous combat missions, and avoid unnecessary casualties.
> 
> At the Zhuhai Air Show, there was such a phrase "don't care after launch" in the introduction column of QN202. What does it mean? In fact, no matter after launch, it means that QN202 does not require special laser irradiation, and only needs to use the scope on the gun transmitter to complete one-key lock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As long as the operator completes the step of locking the target, there is no need to do any extra operations on the QN202 missile. Once the target is locked , QN202 can be launched automatically without any guidance. The QN202 has a range of 2 kilometers. As long as the enemy is within 2 kilometers, whether the enemy is light armor or a vivid target, the QN202 can effectively strike it.
> 
> And not to forget China drones and suicide drones
> 
> To take out the enemies of both Russia and China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pola...-rocket-launcher-systems.750267/post-13968744
> =================================================
> I love to see Chinese weapon systems in real actual use against Murican supplied and touted to high heaven.
> 
> Ukraine war will end very very fast
> 
> When dozens of PCL 191 and Firedragons with reach of 350km and CEP of 1 meter ++
> 
> Against that of HIMARS used by *Ukraine to strike at ranges of 85 kilometers, or 53 miles,*
> 
> And sniper duels between mercenaries and Nazis using Barrett XM109 that weigh 15 kg unloaded.
> 
> And that of Russian snipers using QN202 light and portable, and the matched gun-type launcher makes it possible for individual soldiers to launch missiles in hand.
> 
> This gun launcher weighs about 1.2 kg, while a single soldier backpack full of QN202 weighs 7.2 kg. The total weight of the entire device is only 8.4 kg, which is light and labor-saving, and easy to carry.
> 
> And China to further supply 60 boxes of below to Russia to start with
> 
> 
> 
> That was written 2 years ago in Oct 2020.
> 
> And that CH 901 first emerged in 2016.
> 
> I presume that CH 901 becoming even more sexy in the last couple of years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China Conducts Test Of Massive Suicide Drone Swarm Launched From A Box On A Truck​China shows off its ability to rapidly launch 48 weaponized drones from the back of a truck, as well as from helicopter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China Conducts Test Of Massive Suicide Drone Swarm Launched From A Box On A Truck
> 
> 
> China shows off its ability to rapidly launch 48 weaponized drones from the back of a truck, as well as from helicopters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So while Russian and Allied snipers take their tea breaks, de nazifications and de militarizations and sending of Darwin Awards can still be carried out.
> 
> *AND ANYTIME MURICA AND NATO WANT TO SEND MORE WEAPONS TO NAZIS, CHINA WILL RECIPROCRATE MANY TIMES MORE.
> THE BEST AND ONLY WAY TO REAL PEACE IN UKRAINE.
> 
> ANYTIME MURICA AND NATO AND JAPAN WANT TO TANGO OVER TAIWAN, PLEASE DO SO*


I believe China is supplying indirectly through NK and Iran. All those components for those weapons and drones can only come from one source, CHINA. EVEN THE TAIWANESE DRONES ARE MOST LIKELY USING CHINESE PARTS.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Han Patriot said:


> I believe China is supplying indirectly through NK and Iran. All those components for those weapons and drones can only come from one source, CHINA. EVEN THE TAIWANESE DRONES ARE MOST LIKELY USING CHINESE PARTS.



Iran makes its own drones. However, it is likely some parts of it do come from China.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> a question , how Russia spend 100billion euro on the war in just 6 month while they primary use artillery rockets and iron bombs ?


It’s the total cost. You need to factor in money spent on foods, fuels, housing, services, wages, death, injury, destroyed equipment, etc. 
everything to keep the war machine running.
$100b is a very low estimate. The more higher end estimate is Russia spends $1b per day or $180b.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> It’s the total cost. You need to factor in money spent on foods, fuels, housing, services, wages, death, injury, destroyed equipment, etc. everything.
> $100b is a very low estimate. The more higher end estimate is Russia spends $1b per day or $180b.



Damn! That's a lot of money printing.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567116421884424192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567334016524894208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567219528932929536


----------



## Soldier35

In Ukraine, they continue to create new types of experimental weapons. This time, local weapon craftsmen took a self-propelled makeshift platform and installed a grenade launcher on it.







The calculation of the Russian air defense system "Buk-M3" spoke about his combat work in Ukraine.







The Ukrainian army has published a video, attempts to defeat the Russian drone. The drone corrected the work of Russian artillery, the soldiers even wanted to use MANPADS. The drone eventually took off.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> a question , how Russia spend 100billion euro on the war in just 6 month while they primary use artillery rockets and iron bombs ?


A Large chunk of those went to wages paid to soldier. 

A private in Russian army paid around 50000 Rouble a month. That's about 830 USD (or 800 Euro) a month, Russian have (Or had) around 300,000 (Starting with 200,000 and then put another 100,000 in May) Let's say all of them are private, the total wages are about 1.5 billion. Then you have NCO, Officer, Sign in bonus, Wagner Group, Other paid help which paid multiple times a private, conventional estimate would put the number of wages paid to all group about 50 billion in this war. 

Then you have death benefits, fuels, food, lodging, to pay for those people. Then you put in equipment lost, perishable (like munition and such) each dumb bomb alone cost around 2000 USD, each 152mm artillery shell cost around 200USD (US shell cost around 400/per), the Russian military had expanded multiple millions of those shell, then you talk about missile, and hypersonic missile used in this war, and the equipment lost and captured by Ukrainian, a tank will set Russian back several millions, and Ukraine had captured around 160 confirmed by Open Source. Moskva alone cost 750 million in today money, along with a few transports ship lost and tugboat, Helicopter and fighter jet, 

They probably had lost around 20 billion a month in the lower scale.


----------



## DF41

aviator_fan said:


> Your source is some show you claim you watched that you share as actionable information.
> At least share the claims that a pro-Putin that claims Russinas are superhumans and are defending themselves may have put forth. At least then the fabrication went on a twitter handle.
> Instead of wasting your time here (where you accomplish nothing) you could work for KGB and its cyber team to promote these stories. They are good and they will reach the audience thats looking for lots of news (doesn't matter if its true or not)









With the crap that you are posting and claiming, you be going where the sun and moon never shine.
And the 6 legged intellectuals, and your betters, be feasting on used toilet tissues and discarded condoms.

Even they will ignore you as they crawling around much better than you can hope to be


----------



## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> It depends on national interest, we don't agree on Russia invading Ukriane, but we don't agree on NATO expanding either. Therefore we proposed that Ukraine sign a neutrality pact with Russia but it seems nobody gave a damn and hence we are in this mess now. And we don't agree on unilateral sanctions on sovereign states, because we buy oil and gas from Russia. Systemically, we depend on the West because its their system but if you talk about hard core resources, Russia is more important.dont forget the West is trying to destroy China too, so wht should we help the West?


China is not helping west.
But they are not going to oppose west over russias dreams of empire either.

Russia failing and ending up a north korea paria state is not a big concern. As that means gas would be even cheaper for china. And they would never have to fear from their old communist “big brother” anymore.


Han Patriot said:


> Just Google and check the latest Russian forex increase. Thanks to the price increase, Russia gained more forex in this 6 months than their lost 300bil$.
> 
> Well, the floodgates aren't even open yet matey. If we start building warships for Russia, not even your Papa USA can compete. We essentially launch the same number of destroyers in a year the whole Indian navy has. That's why its stupid to push Russia to China. With Russia, a multilateral world can be created, imagine Russia in Nato, we would be dead long ago. All the whitey gang banging China. That's my biggest nightmare. Stupidest strategic mistake, I was more afraid of Trump.


Again. China is not going to do anything of that.
Also with how undiplomatic, arrogant, greedy china had been in matters if territory….”whitey” is far from is only problem.
China had territory disputes with almost all its neighbours.



F-22Raptor said:


> The Russian Air Force has been nonexistent since May. Somehow, they’ve put up a worse performance than their Army.


Why though?

Were their planes in storage badly maintained/cannibalised for parts?

Are they out of smart bombs and with terrible combined arms training they would do so little benefit that they just sit it out?

Cannot afford too much losses as these are not like the poor minority soldiers or wagner mercenaries and would cause a stir internally?


----------



## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> China is not helping west.
> But they are not going to oppose west over russias dreams of empire either.
> 
> Russia failing and ending up a north korea paria state is not a big concern. As that means gas would be even cheaper for china. And they would never have to fear from their old communist “big brother” anymore.
> 
> Again. China is not going to do anything of that.
> Also with how undiplomatic, arrogant, greedy china had been in matters if territory….”whitey” is far from is only problem.
> China had territory disputes with almost all its neighbours.
> 
> 
> Why though?
> 
> Were their planes in storage badly maintained/cannibalised for parts?
> 
> Are they out of smart bombs and with terrible combined arms training they would do so little benefit that they just sit it out?



Personally I think Putin does not want an empire, its has been dead simple since day 1, dont expand NATO. A 9 year old Chinese gurl could see this in tiktok, it doesn't take a genius to understand this.

It is not in our interest to see Russia fail, they are already selling us cheaper gas despite the 400% inflation in Europe. We need Russia as much as they need us, united we stand, divided we fall. The West wants to destroy any opposition to their domination, the West meaning USA, the rest in the west are just basically poodles. If Russia falls, we are next, you think we are stupid or something? I am pretty sure we are supplying semi finished weapons to NK and Iran to supply to Russia. Even clandestinely we are already supplying them something, our space imaging asset is the largest on earth....

Territory? For 40 years, did we invade anyone? Want is ours is ours... Nothing more nothing less



Viet said:


> It’s the total cost. You need to factor in money spent on foods, fuels, housing, services, wages, death, injury, destroyed equipment, etc.
> everything to keep the war machine running.
> $100b is a very low estimate. The more higher end estimate is Russia spends $1b per day or $180b.


It's just guesstimate..... Russia was supposed to have been bankrupt 6inths ago lol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Personally I think Putin does not want an empire, its has been dead simple since day 1, dont expand NATO. A 9 year old Chinese gurl could see this in tiktok, it doesn't take a genius to understand this.
> 
> It is not in our interest to see Russia fail, they are already selling us cheaper gas despite the 400% inflation in Europe. We need Russia as much as they need us, united we stand, divided we fall. The West wants to destroy any opposition to their domination, the West meaning USA, the rest in the west are just basically poodles. If Russia falls, we are next, you think we are stupid or something? I am pretty sure we are supplying semi finished weapons to NK and Iran to supply to Russia. Even clandestinely we are already supplying them something, our space imaging asset is the largest on earth....
> 
> Territory? For 40 years, did we invade anyone? Want is ours is ours... Nothing more nothing less
> 
> 
> It's just guesstimate..... Russia was supposed to have been bankrupt 6inths ago lol


You are biased.
Putin wants to rebuild the empire. He says it repeatedly in assays and public speeches.
He just signed a military doctrine on “Russian civilization”.
If he doesn’t deny why you chinese try to deny? I don’t understand.
As for NATO, imagine you live in the Baltic’s if you are small and weaker then understandable people seek protection. What do you want?


----------



## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> Personally I think Putin does not want an empire, its has been dead simple since day 1, dont expand NATO. A 9 year old Chinese gurl could see this in tiktok, it doesn't take a genius to understand this.


A 9 year old parroting propaganda….







Putin Laments Soviet Breakup As Demise Of 'Historical Russia,' Amid Ukraine Fears







www.rferl.org





And many soviet bloc nations came basically running towards Nato for protection.
Maybe russia should treat its former colonies better instead? 
“How dare you fear us!!” —> invades and annexes land. 

Not that USA instigating is no factor here…but it does not excuse russias war of agression. 


Han Patriot said:


> It is not in our interest to see Russia fail, they are already selling us cheaper gas despite the 400% inflation in Europe. We need Russia as much as they need us, united we stand, divided we fall. The West wants to destroy any opposition to their domination, the West meaning USA, the rest in the west are just basically poodles. If Russia falls, we are next, you think we are stupid or something? I am pretty sure we are supplying semi finished weapons to NK and Iran to supply to Russia. Even clandestinely we are already supplying them something, our space imaging asset is the largest on earth....


Clearly Xi thinks differently as china mostly “stayed out of this”. 

Perhaps as he is not as paranoid as you about “the west/whiteys coming for us”

Most of europe was on road to closer ties with russia….putin threw that all away to play risk. 


Han Patriot said:


> Territory? For 40 years, did we invade anyone? Want is ours is ours... Nothing more nothing less


China has invaded before that, and recent years see a huge buildup of the army, heavy nationalistic propaganda, and more agressive claims. It seems “chinas peacefull rise” is nearing an end?? 

claims on others territory/territorial waters usually causes some stir. 
Relations with india, japan, south korea, vietnam, indonesia, australia are shaky. 
This is not some simplistic “heroic china” vs “evil nato” scenario.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> It’s the total cost. You need to factor in money spent on foods, fuels, housing, services, wages, death, injury, destroyed equipment, etc.
> everything to keep the war machine running.
> $100b is a very low estimate. The more higher end estimate is Russia spends $1b per day or $180b.


let compare it with USA spending in Iraq with 15 time more sortie / day , use a lot more use of advanced and modern weapon . and those ridicilous amount the military contractor charged them ,


> The most recent major report on these costs come from Brown University in the form of the Costs of War, which totaled just over $1.1 trillion. The United States Department of Defense's direct spending on Iraq totaled at least $757.8 billion, but also highlighting the complementary costs at home, such as interest paid on the funds borrowed to finance the wars.


 that would be 157 milliard / year or 78 milliard for 6 month . a lot less than what people estimate for Russia , while Russia mainly use artillery rocket and free fall bomb not 500,000 dollar bombs , their army have lower maintenance certainly they won't ask the amount for dry cleaning a combat suit as other armies obtain two new one with that



jhungary said:


> A Large chunk of those went to wages paid to soldier.
> 
> A private in Russian army paid around 50000 Rouble a month. That's about 830 USD (or 800 Euro) a month, Russian have (Or had) around 300,000 (Starting with 200,000 and then put another 100,000 in May) Let's say all of them are private, the total wages are about 1.5 billion. Then you have NCO, Officer, Sign in bonus, Wagner Group, Other paid help which paid multiple times a private, conventional estimate would put the number of wages paid to all group about 50 billion in this war.
> 
> Then you have death benefits, fuels, food, lodging, to pay for those people. Then you put in equipment lost, perishable (like munition and such) each dumb bomb alone cost around 2000 USD, each 152mm artillery shell cost around 200USD (US shell cost around 400/per), the Russian military had expanded multiple millions of those shell, then you talk about missile, and hypersonic missile used in this war, and the equipment lost and captured by Ukrainian, a tank will set Russian back several millions, and Ukraine had captured around 160 confirmed by Open Source. Moskva alone cost 750 million in today money, along with a few transports ship lost and tugboat, Helicopter and fighter jet,
> 
> They probably had lost around 20 billion a month in the lower scale.


my question is usa army is a lot more expensive to maintain and the money you needed for iraq war was a lot less


----------



## NotSure

ZeGerman said:


> Prices will grow and grow??
> Last recession gas prices dropped fivefold….
> 
> So russia pushing europe (and the world) too hard into recession might very well backfire enormously if europe shows backbone to take some economic hits


Russia is pushing Europe into recession? In a parallel universe or what? Washington and London gave the order and the EU started the sanctions, NOT Russia. They are pushing Europe into a recession, they are destroying our Economy.

How do you want to analyse things or get them explained by me, like the future gas prices, if you can't get the most basic facts straight? But instead, in your psychosis, you are twisting them to parrot the narrative: Evil Russians!

Btw: For our newzeelandian "expert" @patero regarding european affairs. 

https://www.welt.de/newsticker/dpa_...-mit-Oel-Gas-und-Kohle-weiter-Milliarden.html



> Russland verdient mit dem Export von Öl, Gas und Kohle an Deutschland und andere Länder weiter Milliarden. In den ersten sechs Monaten des russischen Angriffskriegs gegen die Ukraine habe Russland mit den Ausfuhren fossiler Energieträger aufgrund der stark gestiegenen Preise Einnahmen in Höhe von 158 Milliarden Euro erwirtschaftet, schrieb die unabhängige und in Finnland ansässige Forschungsorganisation Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (Crea) in einem am Dienstag veröffentlichten Bericht.
> 
> Das ist demnach mehr, als Russland schätzungsweise für den Ukraine-Krieg ausgibt: Diese Kriegskosten werden von Crea auf etwa 100 Milliarden Euro geschätzt. Der Export fossiler Brennstoffe habe mit etwa 43 Milliarden Euro zum russischen Staatshaushalt beigetragen und somit geholfen, Kriegsverbrechen in der Ukraine zu finanzieren.





> Russia continues to earn billions by exporting oil, gas and coal to Germany and other countries. In the first six months of Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine, Russia earned revenue of *158 billion euros* from fossil fuel exports as prices soared, the independent and Finland-based research organization Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (Crea) wrote in a report published Tuesday.
> 
> According to the report, that's more than Russia is estimated to be spending on the Ukraine war: Crea estimates these war costs at around *100 billion euros*. Fossil fuel exports have contributed about 43 billion euros to Russia's national budget, helping to finance war crimes in Ukraine, it said.



Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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## gambit

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russian Air Force has been nonexistent since May. Somehow, they’ve put up a worse performance than their Army.





ZeGerman said:


> Why though?
> 
> Were their planes in storage badly maintained/cannibalised for parts?
> 
> Are they out of smart bombs and with terrible combined arms training they would do so little benefit that they just sit it out?
> 
> Cannot afford too much losses as these are not like the poor minority soldiers or wagner mercenaries and would cause a stir internally?


My take on the sorry affairs of the VKS is primarily doctrinal.









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Still no proof that that photo was taken in Ukraine. Random photo doesn't prove anything, bro. :lol: Yeah yeah the ukrainian uniform on the right,the left guy having an AK74U which are in service in mass numbers within Ukrainian armed forces.... Show me proof it wasn't in Ukraine. Try to...



defence.pk













Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


As for Iraq: Did Iraq violate the ceasefire by firing SAMs on coalition aircraft? Did Iraq attempt to assassinate George H.W, Bush? The answer to those questions determine the legality of Gulf War II. Saddam's decision to sell oil in EUR instead of USD was the, uh, legality of Gulf War II.



defence.pk





That is not to say that issues you listed like training and logistics are not contributors. They are important contributors. But doctrines were what limited the VKS from the onset and that set the stage for everything else. I am willing to go out on a limb and say that the VKS became *THE* critical turn of how the war is today for Russia.

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> You are biased.
> Putin wants to rebuild the empire. He says it repeatedly in assays and public speeches.
> He just signed a military doctrine on “Russian civilization”.
> If he doesn’t deny why you chinese try to deny? I don’t understand.
> As for NATO, imagine you live in the Baltic’s if you are small and weaker then understandable people seek protection. What do you want?


Bro, common sense, even if he wanted a Russian Empire, you think he will publicly say it. Russia eversince the fall of the SU had been pretty peaceful until NATO began incorporating ex Soviet States against a verbal agreement to not do that. What do I want, if I were Russian I wouild want neutrality, joining an alliance against Russia is like openly declaring hostilities. After decades of patience, finally Russia snapped, can't blame them man. All of this was created by the West, almost all conflicts actually, not the West, USA to be precise.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> my question is usa army is a lot more expensive to maintain and the money you needed for iraq war was a lot less


You do know Afghanistan alone cost US 2 trillion dollars plus change for the entire 20 years conflict. That's 300 million a day. Compare to Russia 660 million a day

You may think yeah, that's cheap, but you need to know the Russia had around 300,000 troops being committed in this current war in Ukraine, US only deployed around 50,000 men in Afghanistan (The entire ISAF only had around 120,000 men at it peak) and we are not losing tank, fighter jet or artillery piece left and right. In fact, we don't even use tank in Afghanistan

A more comparable conflict is Iraq, it's around 3 trillion dollars between 2003-2011 with equipment loss (375 billion a year) compared to Russia ~100 billions in 6 months, direct financial contribution is around 757.8 billion for the same 8 years according to Congress funding (So around 93.5 billion a year), that's because we don't need to rebuy the tank or fighter aircraft when we ask for money to deploy between 2003 to 2011, so taht money is mostly used for lodging, food and support issue. The US loses the following item in Iraq war


20 M1 tanks
50 M2 Bradley fighting vehicles
20 Stryker wheeled combat vehicles
20 M113 armored personnel carriers
250 Humvees
500+ mine clearing vehicles, heavy/medium trucks, and trailers
10 Assault amphibious vehicles
18 Fix Wing Aircraft
190 Helicopter
US troop deployment level in Iraq is approximately 150,000 - 170,000 troop per year.


----------



## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


> Russia is pushing Europe into recession? In a parallel universe or what?


Even During coldwar soviet union kept gas flowing.
Putin however uses it now to pressure and weaken europe. However annexing large parts of ukraine is unacceptable for many. 



NotSure said:


> Washington and London gave the order and the EU started the sanctions, NOT Russia. They are pushing Europe into a recession, they are destroying our Economy.


That is why gazprom stopped refilling supplies in 2021 already?? This was planned ahead of time. 









Gazprom Misses Own 2021 Gas Export Target After Flows Capped


Russian gas giant Gazprom PJSC missed its own “conservative” target for 2021 exports to Europe, and those capped flows contributed to the continent’s worst energy supply crunch in decades.




www.bloomberg.com








NotSure said:


> How do you want to analyse things or get them explained by me, like the future gas prices, if you can't get the most basic facts straight? But instead, in your psychosis, you are twisting them to parrot the narrative: Evil Russians!


Avoiding the point with useless dribble.

Last recession gas prices dropped fivefold.
If current conflicts lead to another recession, this WILL impact the gas and oil price as demand WILL plummet.


----------



## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> A 9 year old parroting propaganda….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin Laments Soviet Breakup As Demise Of 'Historical Russia,' Amid Ukraine Fears
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And many soviet bloc nations came basically running towards Nato for protection.
> Maybe russia should treat its former colonies better instead?
> “How dare you fear us!!” —> invades and annexes land.
> 
> Not that USA instigating is no factor here…but it does not excuse russias war of agression.
> 
> Clearly Xi thinks differently as china mostly “stayed out of this”.
> 
> Perhaps as he is not as paranoid as you about “the west/whiteys coming for us”
> 
> Most of europe was on road to closer ties with russia….putin threw that all away to play risk.
> 
> China has invaded before that, and recent years see a huge buildup of the army, heavy nationalistic propaganda, and more agressive claims. It seems “chinas peacefull rise” is nearing an end??
> 
> claims on others territory/territorial waters usually causes some stir.
> Relations with india, japan, south korea, vietnam, indonesia, australia are shaky.
> This is not some simplistic “heroic china” vs “evil nato” scenario.



Even if China is helping Russia behind, you think we will say it out loud? Hahaah. How naive can you woke cheerleaders be. Without China, Russia would have been bankrupt by now. 

Perception of threat does not entitle others to create a hostile environment, how does joining an alliance designed specifically against Russia enhance peace? I sometimes wonder how they educate kids in Germany, if the West or to be precise US wanted peace, they would have asked Ukraine to sign a neutrality agreement, Russia is safe, Ukraine is safe but do you think US wants it? 

Japan has border woes with Taiwan and Korea, Vietnam has rows with ASEAN too, India with Pakistan and all her smaller neighbours are afraid too. So? The point is we didn't do anything aggressive, we could have taken back macau and HK easily with war, but then what, we are very patient mate. Eversince Deng, China has been guided by a bunch of smart technocrat, US tried to create war with us, did we retaliate? So tell me who is the peaceful one here. Anyway, you best be a good poodle to US, they agent oranged your country, yet you love em lots. Maybe tahts the difference between the Han and Viets, we create civilizations and empires, we will not submit. We may bide our time and remain patient even with provocations, the Russian are not so patient.

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## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> Even if China is helping Russia behind, you think we will say it out loud? Hahaah. How naive can you woke cheerleaders be. Without China, Russia would have been bankrupt by now.


Keeping trade going and buying up resources is not what i am talking about.

Military aid will quickly get noticed on frontlines/by western intelligence services. 
China has shown to be taking quite a “hands off” role so far. 
Smart, considering the western trade is 10 times that of russia and china has its own economic issues (evergrand/corona). 

Before the assembly vote, xi will not rock the boat. Why risk so much for russias dream of empire? 


Han Patriot said:


> Perception of threat does not entitle others to create a hostile environment, how does joining an alliance designed specifically against Russia enhance peace?


1. It is not a perception of threath. Russia has numerously and structurally shown agression against eastern europe and other soviet states. If they dare to move outside of their influence they get the stick.

Proven once again now, with ukraine. 

2. Nato is a defensive alliance. europe greatly reduced their armies and sought stronger trade ties with russia.
What “threat/hostile environment” for russia? 

Stop annexing/opressing/manipulating your former colonies and they might not run to Nato for protection.

3. Ukraine is a sovereign state where russia vowed to protect its security (in return of getting rid of its nukes). Why are you chinese treating these countries as pure buffer pawns for russia to abuse as it sees fit to “feel safe”??? 



Han Patriot said:


> I sometimes wonder how they educate kids in Germany, if the West or to be precise US wanted peace, they would have asked Ukraine to sign a neutrality agreement, Russia is safe, Ukraine is safe but do you think US wants it?


Us wrongs does not make russia right on this….simple logic. 
russia was already full on pressuring ukraine just for seeking closer eu ties. Including russia paying and supporting many EU far right nationalistic elements to try and break up/weaken EU….

Russia is not a passive neutral party in this.
And EU not passive poodles of USA. 
Why do you think ukraine and poland fight so hard against russia?? Because Biden said so? Or because of things like holodomir and katyn?


Han Patriot said:


> Japan has border woes with Taiwan and Korea, Vietnam has rows with ASEAN too, India with Pakistan and all her smaller neighbours are afraid too. So? The point is we didn't do anything aggressive, we could have taken back macau and HK easily with war, but then what, we are very patient mate. Eversince Deng, China has been guided by a bunch of smart technocrat, US tried to create war with us, did we retaliate? So tell me who is the peaceful one here.


The point is you think it will be a rising china vs Nato. But it is likely that rising china is gonna trample over india/japan/vietnam. 

I admired chinas peacefull rise. Much better then USA forever war that is true. 
However. Now it seems to backslip into Mao style. 
It is pushing claims like the ox tongue, fueling nationalism…alienating neigbours. 
Chinese posters here have their mouth full of war….it feels like pre-WW1 europe.


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Bro, common sense, even if he wanted a Russian Empire, you think he will publicly say it. Russia eversince the fall of the SU had been pretty peaceful until NATO began incorporating ex Soviet States against a verbal agreement to not do that. What do I want, if I were Russian I wouild want neutrality, joining an alliance against Russia is like openly declaring hostilities. After decades of patience, finally Russia snapped, can't blame them man. All of this was created by the West, almost all conflicts actually, not the West, USA to be precise.


its up to you if you don’t believe it. Also, one or two months before invasion he issued ultimatum to the US and NATO, demanding the withdrawal of US troops from Europe and reversing the NATO expansion. It’s clear to everyone Putin was ready to make his move if the ultimatum was not met. When I read the news in December 2021, January 2022 I knew the war coming.
About neutrality, it’s unrealistic to ask Poland, the Baltic’s and other in the East to remain neutrality.

The thing is it’s Russia.

If you are Swiss, then neutrality is the perfect choice.
Swiss is surrounded by Germany, France, Austria, Italy. If Swiss has a neighbor as Russia, the Swiss will join the NATO.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567415763631312896

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567431374642069505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567388915757096960

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567443967062511616

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567443300793155584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567443787181350914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567442527745183744


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567443967062511616



Seems the Ukrainians tricked the Russians into thinking the main counter offensive would come from Kherson but seems the main target was the Kharkiv front and Izyum/Kupyansk front.

Too bad for the Russians their reinforcements and "elite troops" were sent and are cut off in Kherson.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567445547740446722


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567443300793155584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567443589428297729


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567443140910497792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567447609060515840

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567443140910497792
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567447609060515840



It looks like the Ukrainians have cut off one of the 2 main highways to Izyum and now have fire control over the other.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567387077611749377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567266270290087949

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567392924970749953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567410623343988738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567268160784502786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567264410871136258

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567447346128064516

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567392081315782656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567415637273608195

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567445629458071552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567197855760146441

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567441474232487937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567442249058852864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567455571338469376

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## jhungary

Zelenskyy let slip on a ABC interview that Kherson is not the only Counteroffensive they are working on at the moment....

(Well, I don't think he slip up at all, but it's nice to know they are looking at elsewhere as well and not just Kherson)


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567465028328034304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567454718972100611

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567465028328034304
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567454718972100611



If the Ukrainians take Kupyansk it’s over for Russian forces at the Izyum front.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567461984467034117

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567446119596040192

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567387077611749377
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567266270290087949
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567392924970749953
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567410623343988738
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567268160784502786
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567264410871136258


The real Ghanima…..

Instead of all those posts of a few (used) javelins….


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567439754215530499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567439757143056384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567439760787914753

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## Broccoli

Things arent looking good for Russians...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567467507665051648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567467511284645889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567467519278972928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567467527885701120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567467537364811776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567467541706018816

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## alimobin memon

This time what will happen if russians loose ? Something like end of ussr ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567467544641998848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567467548853080069

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567467553055719425

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567486096853852163

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Zelenskyy let slip on a ABC interview that Kherson is not the only Counteroffensive they are working on at the moment....
> 
> (Well, I don't think he slip up at all, but it's nice to know they are looking at elsewhere as well and not just Kherson)



Moscow, Vladivostok, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky of course are on the radar.



alimobin memon said:


> This time what will happen if russians loose ? Something like end of ussr ?



Ukraine annex Russia and Belarus and rebuild the mighty Kievan Rus.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567487845765451781

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567481544331202560
Russians fled their positions in Bairak.

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> a question , how Russia spend 100billion euro on the war in just 6 month while they primary use artillery rockets and iron bombs ?


Young, working age soldiers dying, in need of medical treatment, taken out of work, sanctions.

They also fired thousands of expensive cruise missiles/smart bombs/ballistic missiles, few billions of dollars. Thousands of vehicles destroyed. A few more billions of dollars worth. Vehicles captured, I'd say about 1-2 billion dollars.
Dozens of expensive fighter jets destroyed, average price 35 million dollars, 2.5-3 billion dollars. Moskva missile cruiser sunk, 800~ million dollars. Fuel, ammunition price, food and water, Russia firing on average 40,000~ artillery munitions per day (At least I've heard so a few months ago), that's probably around 100-150 million dollars per day, probably 20~ billion dollars since the war started. I'd say Russia lost at least 50 billion dollars considering losses, supplies, and ammo spending, excluding sanctions, compensations, medical bills.

War is incredibly expensive.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567486977368285185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567484342473039872


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567436624551710721

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567485544145321984

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## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567436624551710721


Where is the video?


----------



## Broccoli

alimobin memon said:


> This time what will happen if russians loose ? Something like end of ussr ?



Back to the 1990's when chaos reigned all over Russia and oligarkhs car bombed each others on weekly basis, etc. 

Of course Russia turning into somewhat normal democracy would be a good thing but i'm sceptical.



Beny Karachun said:


> Young, working age soldiers dying, in need of medical treatment, taken out of work, sanctions.
> 
> They also fired thousands of expensive cruise missiles/smart bombs/ballistic missiles, few billions of dollars. Thousands of vehicles destroyed. A few more billions of dollars worth. Vehicles captured, I'd say about 1-2 billion dollars.
> Dozens of expensive fighter jets destroyed, average price 35 million dollars, 2.5-3 billion dollars. Moskva missile cruiser sunk, 800~ million dollars. Fuel, ammunition price, food and water, Russia firing on average 40,000~ artillery munitions per day (At least I've heard so a few months ago), that's probably around 100-150 million dollars per day, probably 20~ billion dollars since the war started. I'd say Russia lost at least 50 billion dollars considering losses, supplies, and ammo spending, excluding sanctions, compensations, medical bills.
> 
> War is incredibly expensive.



They also need western chips for military hardware but getting those isn't that easy anymore.... everything from modern Russian cruise missiles to Pantsir SAM use western components.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Beny Karachun said:


> Where is the video?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567464762098814983

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567495649800634374


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567497825730142210

Wow, they just leave him behind

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567497529184460802

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567504980436783104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567502487816396800


----------



## HorusRa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567464762098814983



wow, it does look an air-to-air kill to me. Incredible footage.

VKS the second best air force in Ukraine


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567502462919008256


HorusRa said:


> wow, it does look an air-to-air kill to me. Incredible footage.
> 
> VKS the second best air force in Ukraine



Yep, you can see the missile at 5sec mark. Happens really fast.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567509451598450688

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567511754527150081

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567486096853852163


that is an ex-russian tank judging from paint on tank partially covered up ...


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567505066558365697
Everything is going to plan

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567515780786360323

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567520484991827969

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## Viet

Incredible

UK energy companies will make $200 billion profits.

That’s more than Putin receives on selling oil and gas in the first 6 months.

Energy companies in Germany make similar giant profits on high energy prices.

the big money go to the pockets of western energy companies not Russia.









UK Sees Up to £170 Billion Excess Profits for Energy Firms


UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.




www.bloomberg.com


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Incredible
> 
> UK energy companies will make $200 billion profits.
> 
> That’s more than Putin receives on selling oil and gas in the first 6 months.
> 
> Energy companies in Germany make similar giant profits on high energy prices.
> 
> the big money go to the pockets of western energy companies not Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK Sees Up to £170 Billion Excess Profits for Energy Firms
> 
> 
> UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


Would imagine that's either all or a big share of those profit are from BP...

BP operate in both North Sea and Gulf of Mexico, Russia loss is BP gain......


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567523654539399176


----------



## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Incredible
> 
> UK energy companies will make $200 billion profits.
> 
> That’s more than Putin receives on selling oil and gas in the first 6 months.
> 
> Energy companies in Germany make similar giant profits on high energy prices.
> 
> the big money go to the pockets of western energy companies not Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK Sees Up to £170 Billion Excess Profits for Energy Firms
> 
> 
> UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


 which is why the energy companies need a windfall tax !!!!!!


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567527293177794562


----------



## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> which is why the energy companies need a windfall tax !!!!!!


Yes too much, such profits are perverse. Can’t be we freeze in houses while they bath in money.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567534305622081538

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567528962917539844
Excalibur rounds

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Would imagine that's either all or a big share of those profit are from BP...
> 
> BP operate in both North Sea and Gulf of Mexico, Russia loss is BP gain......


I think so. Putin threatens again he won’t deliver anything if the West don’t follow his rule. Interesting. Gazprom delivers 0 gas now. how low can Gazprom go deeper? Minus gas delivery?


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> I think so. Putin threatens again he won’t deliver anything if the West don’t follow his rule. Interesting. Gazprom delivers 0 gas now. how low can Gazprom go deeper? Minus gas delivery?


Nah, he is delusional....

Well, you have to be to think starting this war is a good idea..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567538675436625926

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567538762262913024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567525673941569536

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567509816175742978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567540296698806272

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## Ali_Baba

Su-25 shootdown was an Air-to-Air kill









Ukrainian troops shoot Su-25 fighter jet out of the sky


Britain's defence ministry said there has been heavy fighting on three fronts: in the north, near Kharkiv; in the east in the Donbas; and in the south in Kherson Oblast




www.dailymail.co.uk





_"The video of the Su-25 being taken down was issued by Anatoliy Shtefan, an officer of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. 

The jet can be seen flying into the frame of the video from the right - *with a second aircraft flying closely behind it.* The first aircraft is visible losing altitude.

Excitement builds among those filming the plan as it comes down, and disappears behind a tree line. At this point in the footage, the jet smashes into the ground and bounces - like a skimming stone across a pond - along the earth.

A voice believed to be from the Ukrainian military is heard saying 'Yes, yes…' in accented English and then in Russian: 'Fell down'. 

The wrecked jet can be seen leaving a smoke trail as it skims into the distance.

Russian sources said that the pilot successfully ejected and was evacuated. However, there was no proof of this."_


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567543637742870530

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567532439588716545
Another abandonned russian position

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567544591045238786

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Nah, he is delusional....
> 
> Well, you have to be to think starting this war is a good idea..


He acts like a mafia boss. Or a drug dealer that threatens to stop giving out drugs. Europe was addicted. Many are naive thinking Russia drug is healthy. Now Putin finds China the new drug consumer. Time for Europe to move on.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567544580123365379

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567546292305272841


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567544580123365379



Ukrainian telegram channels are full of videos/pictures of killed/captured russians especially from the Kharkiv front. Things didn't go as "planned".

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## F-22Raptor

US Trained Ukrainian Missileers Who Sunk Russian Warship, Pentagon Official Says​
Ukrainian forces who sank a Russian warship with Harpoon missiles in June were trained in the United States, the Pentagon’s top weapons buyer said.

That key detail of the strike and a few others were disclosed Wednesday by Bill LaPlante, defense undersecretary for acquisition and sustainment, during a conference panel hosted by Defense News.

Ukrainians were trained on the use of the weapons “in our country over Memorial Day weekend,” LaPlante said.

The Boeing-made Harpoon anti-ship missiles used in the strike were given to the Ukrainians by a U.S. ally that LaPlante did not disclose. The missiles were removed from the ally’s ship and then mounted on the back of a flatbed truck. A second flatbed truck served as a “power source,” he said. “There's incredible innovation going on right now and we just don't talk about it enough.” 

In mid-June, Ukraine said it deployed Harpoons provided by Denmark. Days later, reports emerged that the Ukrainian military had sunk the Russian naval supply ship Spasatel Vasily Bekh. A week later the Pentagon said Ukraine had sunk that ship with Harpoons.

On Wednesday, LaPlante said that Ukrainian forces had since sunk another Russian warship with the Harpoons. He did not name the ship.

In June, U.S. officials pledged to send Ukraine vehicle-mounted Harpoons as part of a $1 billion weapons package.

In April, Ukrainian forces used Neptune missiles to sink the Moskva, flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet.









US Trained Ukrainian Missileers Who Sunk Russian Warship, Pentagon Official Says


Bill LaPlante also said the Ukrainians have used modified Harpoons to sink a second warship.




www.defenseone.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567549060600549376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567549291517952008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567549374577647618


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567549588940152833

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567549693411950598


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567536308834140162


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567544426280386560
What T-34 doing?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567557546084278278


----------



## Viet

Ukraine receives another 5 billion euros from the EU.









Ukraine thanks EU for 5 billion euros aid, calls for full IMF program


Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Wednesday thanked the European Union for confirming 5 billion euros ($4.97 billion) in macro-financial aid but said the country needed a "full-fledged" program of financing from the International Monetary Fund.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ukraine receives another 5 billion euros from the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine thanks EU for 5 billion euros aid, calls for full IMF program
> 
> 
> Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Wednesday thanked the European Union for confirming 5 billion euros ($4.97 billion) in macro-financial aid but said the country needed a "full-fledged" program of financing from the International Monetary Fund.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



Too little. Ukraine needs 50 billion euros per month to stay afloat. However, too much money supply causes inflation and does not solve the crumbling infrastructure problem.


----------



## Primus

Well this week certainly has not been good for Russia. 

Also that a2a kill caught on cam was wild. 

Wished we had something similar like that footage when the IAF mig 21 was downed by the PAF f16, but at least we have the wreckage.

I looked at the footage, but I couldn't tell whether it was a mig29 or su27 that shot down the Su25. It was too blurry. @jhungary can you confirm which jet shot it down?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567571695535366145
Boom goes the pontoon bridge


----------



## jhungary

Primus said:


> Well this week certainly has not been good for Russia.
> 
> Also that a2a kill caught on cam was wild.
> 
> Wished we had something similar like that footage when the IAF mig 21 was downed by the PAF f16, but at least we have the wreckage.
> 
> I looked at the footage, but I couldn't tell whether it was a mig29 or su27 that shot down the Su25. It was too blurry. @jhungary can you confirm which jet shot it down?



Most official Ukrainian channel insist the aircraft was shot down by MANPAD fired by 80th Separate Air Assault Brigade. So official position from Ukraine is a MANPAD shot it down. 

There is unofficial position that it was down by a Ukrainian Jet because of the missile travelling direction and a second jet flew close by. If this is the case, then most likely it was Su-27 as 831st Tactical Aviation Brigade operate close by and they uses Su-27. 

But again, official channel acknowledges that as a ground kill.

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567571695535366145
> Boom goes the pontoon bridge




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567572943969845251


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567572943969845251


Why the Russian still using leather boots in combat?

It does not make sense as it's too hot for leather boots and too early for winter.........


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567563669248131073


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567496634216644608


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567578319205318666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567577504973479938


----------



## alimobin memon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567546274752204801

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Vergennes said:


> Ukrainian telegram channels are full of videos/pictures of killed/captured russians especially from the Kharkiv front. Things didn't go as "planned".


What's the channel name


----------



## F-22Raptor

alimobin memon said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567546274752204801

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## alimobin memon

one thing is clear though. Ukraine is very active on social media and Russians are either suppressed or are not uploading content compared to Ukraine. Could be the reason why its confusing to conclude what is the actual result of UA Offensive.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567582330889314304


----------



## alimobin memon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567582134910476289After much gains by Ukraines looks like the offensive has stopped and Russian Counter offensive to begin.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567571695535366145


alimobin memon said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567582134910476289After much gains by Ukraines looks like the offensive has stopped and Russian Counter offensive to begin.



Russian counter offensive are just BS spread by Russian telegram channels not to cause panic. Reality is Russia sent much reinforcements and its "elite" troops to the Kherson front and they are actually trapped there. Russia simply doesn't have enough troops to sustain Ukrainian attacks on so much fronts.

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## alimobin memon

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567571695535366145


Dude this and your previous tweet already posted and old one.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567571695535366145
> 
> 
> Russian counter offensive are just BS spread by Russian telegram channels not to cause panic. Reality is Russia sent much reinforcements and its "elite" troops to the Kherson front and they are actually trapped there. Russia simply doesn't have enough troops to sustain Ukrainian attacks on so much fronts.


Could be but you have no proof they are lying or that Ukrainians could be also lying too. I am neutral I think its too premature to decide if they really sustained damages or Russians.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567571695535366145
> 
> 
> Russian counter offensive are just BS spread by Russian telegram channels not to cause panic. Reality is Russia sent much reinforcements and its "elite" troops to the Kherson front and they are actually trapped there. Russia simply doesn't have enough troops to sustain Ukrainian attacks on so much fronts.



If need be Russia can mobilize. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. 4 times man power advantage is quite a lot.

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## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567583287874404353

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566075840722604033
Russian losses now exceed 5,500

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567588381256736769

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## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567588381256736769


It remains to be seen if they can leave.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567583000430264320


----------



## dbc

I think some of esteemed members may need a cope cage. I hear it's available on Amazon discount code #I<3Putin#

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567570220851630086

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567570230804713477


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567599259544846336

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567565484349964288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567565493900394499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567551615997018115

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## F-22Raptor

I’ve noticed a significant decline in Russian missile attacks in recent weeks. Russia likely running low on missiles.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567601925146681346

Highly unconfirmed, but there are some reports the Ukrainians are moving quickly on Kupiansk. 

This really could be disastrous for Russia

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Wood said:


>





aziqbal said:


> Is Russia running out of steam
> 
> No gains and actually some loss of ground in last few weeks




Russia is done.

By end of this month Russia will be out of Ukraine completely. All of Donbas and Crimea will be back under Ukranian control.

Russia will lose the war by end october.

The balkazied Russia and annexed by all the US, NATO and the neighbors of Russia.



F-22Raptor said:


> I’ve noticed a significant decline in Russian missile attacks in recent weeks. Russia likely running low on missiles.



Russia will lose the war and will get balkanized in the next few weeks.

The question is who will get Russia's UNSC seat.

I bet it would be Germany.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567622172444590087
It was a bad day for the Russians

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## Stryker1982

No matter what side you take, one can only praise the courage of Ukrainian soldiers who must've felt holding off a Russian invasion would be an impossible task. Of course, they couldn't do it without NATO.


----------



## PakFactor

Stryker1982 said:


> No matter what side you take, one can only praise the courage of Ukrainian soldiers who must've felt holding off a Russian invasion would be an impossible task. Of course, they couldn't do it without NATO.



Without NATO support Ukraine would have been defeated early.

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567622172444590087
> It was a bad day for the Russians



This is the worst day of the war for Russia since the Kyiv disaster in March.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567613654316552192


Stryker1982 said:


> No matter what side you take, one can only praise the courage of Ukrainian soldiers who must've felt holding off a Russian invasion would be an impossible task. Of course, they couldn't do it without NATO.



Yet so far they have not been able to to even take a village in Russia. So much for Europe's most powerful army.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567458270293491713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567446826655047681

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> I’ve noticed a significant decline in Russian missile attacks in recent weeks. Russia likely running low on missiles.


Please don't start with this again. You made the same remark back in early March.

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## F-22Raptor

Primus said:


> Please don't start with this again. You made the same remark back in early March.



I’ve been dead on this entire war. I was saying in May Russia would be exhausted by end of summer and Ukraine would begin their offensives by autumn.

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## Stryker1982

F-22Raptor said:


> I’ve been dead on this entire war.


RIP my brother.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> I’ve been dead on this entire war. I was saying in May Russia would be exhausted by end of summer and Ukraine would begin their offensives by autumn.


You said in May, that Russia has exhausted its ammo supply (for its missiles and guided weaponry) and posted bs articles saying the same.

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## F-22Raptor

Primus said:


> You said in May, that Russia has exhausted its ammo supply (for its missiles and guided weaponry) and posted bs articles saying the same.



Yes, their PGMs, which are barely used these days. I was accurate, once again.

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## 925boy

PakFactor said:


> Without NATO support Ukraine would have been defeated early.


and NATO exhausted ALOT of military resources to keep Ukraine afloat.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567591184322777089


----------



## F-22Raptor

925boy said:


> and NATO exhausted ALOT of military resources to keep Ukraine afloat.



I can’t speak for Europe, but not the US. 

It’s given only $10B in military aid. 

8,500 Javelins 
25-30K AT-4 anti armor rockets
1,500 Stingers
16 HIMARS 
126 M777s
16 M119s
2K drones 
800K 155 ammo

In the grand scheme, it’s not much for the US military.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567608975910125569

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567632678949732354
Ukrainians are clever,they are bypassing strongholds,surrounding and cutting them off and finishing them with artillery instead of frontal and costly assaults.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

alimobin memon said:


> This time what will happen if russians loose ? Something like end of ussr ?


Its unfortunate that Putin (despite his KGB background in the craft of intelligence) fell into the same trap as less intelligent people like Saddam and Qaddafi. Saddam would very much have still been in power if after Collin Powell lied to the UN he would have opened himself to inspectors instead of playing hardball. Putin should have known that the myth of superpower status and having gas as the lever to Europe was better than a war that breaks and exposes the myth.

This is what happens with despots: their advisors fear for their lives and so nobody gives honest advice. Instead the adviers tell the boss what he wants to hear and it does the country in



PakFactor said:


> Without NATO support Ukraine would have been defeated early.


Support goes some of the way but the will to fight has to exist. Thats what striker1982 is talking about. You can have all the support in the world but if you can't fight you are toast. Look at the Afghan National Army. Years of training, equipment and $ approaching only that of Israel. They gave up to Taliban in motorcycles.

UA did the first round of resistance on their own with western arms that were defensive in nature. They had to pay in blood and courage to push Russians back, and then get the offensive assistance.

Yemenis and Mujahadeens and now Ukrainians have set an example in terms of courage against superior adversary.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> and NATO exhausted ALOT of military resources to keep Ukraine afloat.


A lot is an exaggeration. They may have dipped a lot into the defensive stockpile (Stingers, Javelins) but the offensive capability they gave (HIMARS) , there is plenty left. Same with artillery pieces from othe rcountries. Air dropped weapons, and the entire air force inventory is very much in tact as well as long range PGMs. Only surface to surface artillery likely < 10% of it.

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## F-22Raptor

aviator_fan said:


> A lot is an exaggeration. They may have dipped a lot into the defensive stockpile (Stingers, Javelins) but the offensive capability they gave (HIMARS) , there is plenty left. Same with artillery pieces from othe rcountries. Air dropped weapons, and the entire air force inventory is very much in tact as well as long range PGMs. Only surface to surface artillery likely < 10% of it.



Stingers haven’t been delivered since the early stage of the war. The US has given 8,500 Javelins, about 35-40% of its stockpile. A significant number, but that will be backfilled and there’s so many anti tank weapons in Ukraine, Russia will never be able to outnumber them. 

Artillery about 500K delivered and 300K for future delivery. US stockpile of 155mm is 5M+.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> US stockpile of 155mm is 5M+.



Not all of them are usable. Most are expired. Some are used by US army for training. Realistically about 1 or 2 million tops.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567652191279661056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567656649954938880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567639957312765954

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## khansaheeb

Estimated losses

From Reuters · Updated 2 hours ago
Deaths
At least 29,587 people
Non-fatal injuries
At least 52,890 people
Displaced
Approximately 14M people
Buildings destroyed
At least 2,841
Property damage
Approximately $750B


----------



## Viet

Today a regular meeting of “Ukraine contact group” at US airbase in Germany.
50 countries come together with all members the NATO.
The military alliance is expected to announce delivery of assistance for the incoming Ukraine winter war. Winter jackets, shoes, tents.









Verteidigungsminister sprechen in Ramstein über Ukraine-Krieg


Am Donnerstag treffen sich auf der US Air Base in Ramstein Verteidigungsminister und hochrangige Militärs aus 50 Ländern. Die Kontaktgruppe diskutiert über weitere Unterstützung der Ukraine im Krieg.




www.swr.de

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## Stryker1982

Viet said:


> Today a regular meeting of “Ukraine contact group” at US airbase in Germany.
> 50 countries come together with all members the NATO.
> The military alliance is expected to announce delivery of assistance for the incoming Ukraine winter war. Winter jackets, shoes, tents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verteidigungsminister sprechen in Ramstein über Ukraine-Krieg
> 
> 
> Am Donnerstag treffen sich auf der US Air Base in Ramstein Verteidigungsminister und hochrangige Militärs aus 50 Ländern. Die Kontaktgruppe diskutiert über weitere Unterstützung der Ukraine im Krieg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.swr.de


50+ countries supporting 1 country, vs another 1 country.

Is anyone really surprised how this will turn out. The longer it goes the worse it gets for Russia.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine has military means to attack far distant targets

The series of attacks on Crimea 4 weeks ago were due to Ukraine missiles according to Ukraine army chief Waleryj Saluschnyj. Russia airbase at Crimea including 10 aircraft was destroyed.









Serie von Explosionen: Ukraine gibt Beschuss der Krim zu


Die Ukraine hat eingeräumt, für die Explosionen auf russischen Krim-Stützpunkten vor rund vier Wochen verantwortlich zu sein. Bei den Offensiven im Süden und Osten macht die ukrainische Armee offenbar Fortschritte.




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## DF41

https://****/Slavyangrad/7396 
_**** = t dot me_
🥁🥁🥁🏔️🐲

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Situation in the #Nikolaev-#KrivoyRog direction at the end of 7 September 2022⚡️

On the ninth day since the Ukrainian offensive on Kherson began, the frontline has stabilised. The AFU are still trying to expand their bridgehead to advance further towards Novaya Kakhovka and #Kherson, but are unable to build on their earlier success.

▪️ In the #Andreevka sector, the Ukrainian command continues to cling to Sukhoy Stavok and the surrounding settlements, trying to rotate the units there. 
➖ Russian Ground and Airborne Forces artillery is pounding enemy positions in the narrow "intestine" near #Andreevka. Tornado-S MLRSs struck precisely at the AFU position near #Bereznegovatoye, and aerial bombs hit the bridgehead near Sukhoy Stavok. Russian units also approached the eastern outskirts of #Belogorka, which had been attacked by Su-34 bombers in recent days.
➖ Ukrainian militants are suffering losses of personnel and equipment. Vehicles with wounded and killed fighters drive almost continuously through #Bereznegovatoye towards the north. Equipment damaged by the attacks is also being transported through the village.

▪️ In the #PosadPokrovskoye sector, Ukrainian militants continue their attempts to entrench themselves west of the village of Ternovye Pody. Meanwhile, TRO brigade units are in no hurry to take new positions, having suffered heavy losses in suicide attacks in recent days.

▪️ In the #Snigirovka sector, it is relatively quit. The AFU are not actively going on the offensive and are trying to drop shells from helicopters on the positions of the Russian paratroopers in the previously captured #Blagodatnoye.

▪️ In the #Olgino and #Vysokopolye areas there are no changes on the front line.

@Slavyangrad /@rybar/#SMO/ ****/SLG_MAPS/7
Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community

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## Soldier35

Soldiers of PMC Wagner told about some episodes of fighting in Ukraine near Artemovsk. Video with subtitles youtube







The Ukrainian army has begun to mark its military equipment with new identification marks, with a distinctly white cross on the videos that have appeared. It is not yet known whether all military equipment of Ukraine will be marked this way, or whether the equipment of one of the groupings of troops is designated this way.







A Ukrainian soldier spoke about the battle in Ukraine and the defeat of his ambushed squad. Video with subtitles youtube







Attack of PMC Wagner, soldiers of Ukraine were ambushed. A video of a real battle in Ukraine was filmed by soldiers of the Ukrainian army, on the way to their stronghold near the city of Bakhmut, Ukrainian soldiers were ambushed by Wagner PMCs. The video was taken from the phone of a deceased soldier of the Ukrainian army. Video with youtube subtitles

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Bengal71

PakFactor said:


> That’s a pretty nice BMW parked.



It's a Lexus.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Not all of them are usable. Most are expired. Some are used by US army for training. Realistically about 1 or 2 million tops.


Source please on why you think only 1/4th is usable and how you knwo that from sitting in your apartment in Canada (according to your location). Does this mean only 1/4th of China's army is lethal and the rest is useless?

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## Viet

Bengal71 said:


> It's a Lexus.


You will be surprised. Ukrainians seem having higher living standards than Russians. Many as refugees here arrived in Germany (almost 1 million now and rising) drive Mercedes, Audi, BMW.
Ukraine have the same access to Germany social programs like other privileged groups. Free housing, free healthcare, free public transports, free schools, free kindergarten.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Yes, their PGMs, which are barely used these days. I was accurate, once again.


My God, dude you were talking about their cruise and ballistic missile quantities. You said they were running out of them when we saw a dip in the amount of CM and BM they launched. On top of that you said they were running out of arty ammo posting bs sources saying the same thing. You were wrong then and most likely wrong now.

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## Viet

Interesting stuff

Ukraine army deploys robot tanks.

40 mm grenade launcher
30 mm automatic cannon
anti-tank missile system
81 mm mortar rounds to provide rear support


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567789109824917504


----------



## Broccoli

alimobin memon said:


> one thing is clear though. Ukraine is very active on social media and Russians are either suppressed or are not uploading content compared to Ukraine. Could be the reason why its confusing to conclude what is the actual result of UA Offensive.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567582330889314304



He used to work for Russia Today so he is saying what Kremlin is saying.

Nothing independent about "The Duran".


----------



## James David

Hack-Hook said:


> let compare it with USA spending in Iraq with 15 time more sortie / day , use a lot more use of advanced and modern weapon . and those ridicilous amount the military contractor charged them


We are alot richer than Russia. Make that 20x richer. or maybe 50.

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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567623045023469570
All according to plan.


----------



## James David

Han Patriot said:


> Even if China is helping Russia behind, you think we will say it out loud? Hahaah. How naive can you woke cheerleaders be. Without China, Russia would have been bankrupt by now.


You can send the whole army of China to Ukraine to help your Russia you still loose. End of Story.

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## Viet

The Russian invasion army is caught pants down by Ukraine surprised attacks on northern and center fronts.
Putin just anticipated Ukraine offensive at the southern front towards Cherson.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567722946491211782

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## Hack-Hook

James David said:


> We are alot richer than Russia. Make that 20x richer. or maybe 50.


its not the question of you are richer or poorer, the comparison only concerned about how much Russia spent on the war . at least look at what the discussion is about


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567801361236131840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567801867580874752
$675M new weapons package for Ukraine

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567796458732113920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567817138550833160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567805343236849667

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567792306752716802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567779490784231424
No more videos for this tiktok warrior ^^

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## Viet

Real comedy

Viktor Zolotov, chief of Russia national guard said to Putin in a public meeting:

“I would like to emphasize that we can feel that the population of the liberated areas is supporting us. They realize that we are defending their right to a peaceful life and their children’s happiness,”

Look at Putin face. He begins to doubt his own self cooked propaganda.






TASS Agency Twitter​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564595122792288256

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567835675109490689

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567837725889384450

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567847516401434624

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567846711615168517

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567842286783938561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567832564005588992

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567853043164631040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567854134417580035

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## Viet

Futures contract TTF for natural gas goes down from $300 to $200 per 1 MWh.

People made bet because Russia delivers zero natural gas the price must explode however it’s not. The price went Up, now down. They lose money. Dumb.

Putin blackmail not working.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567809957508128772

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## DF41

MR Z O V 🇷🇺🔪🐷🇺🇦:
🇺🇦 It is reported that Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Zaluzhny and the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine warned the office of the President and Zelensky himself that an offensive in two strategic directions could have bad consequences. Due to the large losses in manpower and equipment, there may be a huge shortage of heavy weapons and experienced units. The personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, seeing and knowing all the "underground" (huge losses), will be morally broken if the territorial result is not achieved and retained.

At the same time, there is a huge risk that the Russian army is exhausting parts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, drawing in and knocking out the most combat-ready units. At the same time, the attempt of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation to go on the counteroffensive with a high degree of probability has a chance of success. The Armed Forces of Ukraine will no longer have reserves to contain the "onslaught" and a complete collapse of the defense will begin, at least in two strategic directions.

All reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are now thrown into the attack so that Ukrainian politicians can achieve their goals at a meeting with donors in the Ramstein format.

Winter will be interesting to say the least.
I expect some big offensives by the Russians during the winter season.

FD:
Wise people. 

"yesterday a Russian tank hit a bunker with four foreign fighters who were there, two of whom died, and two others with the call signs "Watchman" and "Messi" were seriously injured, the last of which had his leg blown off."

lmao Messi lost his legs in ukraine!

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567861827798695940

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567847685666791424

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567862024196980738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567864175044468737

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567862821173530624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567892237920485379

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567861190994296832


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567852907881455617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567845641484738562

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567845657385263107

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567843152135856129


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567869041750032384


----------



## Vergennes

Ukrainian flag raised over Balakleya city council. Seems like Russian reports of "reinforcements being sent" were entire BS.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567877782113222658

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> In California Hispanic is the largest ethnic group.


As of ‘21 and sorry I don’t count illegals


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> As of ‘21 and sorry I don’t count illegals







__





Demographics of California - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> You have no clue about history and geopolitics. Germany is occupied by you angloids since nearly 80 years and you bred this morons here in our country. ALL the big political parties and media outlets here are under transatlantic control. Directly or indirectly. And the Green Party is the party with the tightest british-american control EVER in the history of the BRD. Stupid apparatshiks like Bearbock literally got their so called "education" given in GB for their servility. And all our big polit apparatshiks are members in transatlantic clubs.
> 
> And you are really thinking, i have voted for this transatlantic creatures, the Green Party? Plus considering their woke mental illness? Lol...
> 
> Long story short: You are acting like the typical angloid, especially the american version. Dumb and uneducated like "drei Meter Feldweg" but with a big mouth and a huge portion of arrogance.


Please back up your trash above. 
And I have more than a clue as I’m German and have plenty of still there 🙄



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Demographics of California - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


I don’t count illegals


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567884021698371585

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567888671461761024

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567893569813336065

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567888671461761024


Not bad
Ukraine offensive is a great success.
They should use the momentum.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567862821173530624
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567861190994296832


Old news
Germany buys 0 from Gazprom.

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## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> Not bad
> Ukraine offensive is a great success.
> They should use the momentum.


Very impressed by the way they suprised the russians with a second counteroffensive while drawing them into cherson for months.

The rate of lost russian material seems to spike heavily.


----------



## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Very impressed by the way they suprised the russians with a second counteroffensive while drawing them into cherson for months.
> 
> The rate of lost russian material seems to spike heavily.


That’s although Ukraine army lacks of tanks. Most assaults are carried out by foot soldiers. The Russians are finished. They are too well fed by propaganda. They waste time and money their best troops are trained with the Chinese in Far East.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567895837828681728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567897059545518080

Russian forces are getting overrun

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## gambit

Stryker1982 said:


> 50+ countries supporting 1 country, vs another 1 country.


Smart.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567897504376655874

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## Viet

U.S. provides nearly $3 billion to Ukraine as Blinken makes unannounced visit to Kyiv​
Updated September 8, 202211:11 AM ET

Twitter






U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken talks with Marina, 6, from Ukraine's Kherson region, during his visit to a children's hospital in Kyiv on Thursday.
Genya Savilov/Pool/AFP via Getty Images


----------



## F-22Raptor

Latest weapons package

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567902222532370433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567904464845111297

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567902831285248001

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567901548587384833


----------



## MeFishToo

Source (War in Ukraine)
Objective of second offensive is to reach Kubyansk, bypassing and blocking russian strongholds, and essentially cut off the Izyum bridgehead.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567906072735653890

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567903200673406978


----------



## Stryker1982

MeFishToo said:


> Source (War in Ukraine)
> Objective of second offensive is to reach Kubyansk, bypassing and blocking russian strongholds, and essentially cut of the Izyum bridgehead.
> View attachment 877237


I might actually die of cringe for Russia, and the disaster that has befallen them if UKR takes back Kubyansk and Izyum. 

One could ask what Russia is spending $80 billion/year on exactly for it's military budget.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567900932867854339

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567881524212633608


----------



## MeFishToo

Stryker1982 said:


> I might actually die of cringe for Russia, and the disaster that has befallen them if UKR takes back Kubyansk and Izyum.
> 
> One could ask what Russia is spending $80 billion/year on exactly for it's military budget.


The guy running War in Ukraine has been very pessimistic and constantly saying the ukrainian army is incompetent in terms of offensive operations. But according to him, this offensive might change the entire war - if its a succes. The ukrainians are taking a risk if Russia is able to mobilize a counter attack.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567912259703263233

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567875674475581441

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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567856213882294272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567843147262181379

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## Vergennes

Seems like tiktok warriors aren't panicking either,LMAO.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567916735054991360


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567887266562850819

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## Viet

Stryker1982 said:


> I might actually die of cringe for Russia, and the disaster that has befallen them if UKR takes back Kubyansk and Izyum.
> 
> One could ask what Russia is spending $80 billion/year on exactly for it's military budget.


From the budget Putin spends $1.2 billion per year on propaganda and disinformation.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567920178545000455


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567920377749176320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567924907081596931

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567925068134506496

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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567924893957734405

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567924896478502914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567924898856673281

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567931812436901889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567928821218672641



Russian losses on the kharkiv front in terms of men and equipments are staggering.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567936446161616901

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567939748924211202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567940138495254528

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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567936769127063552

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567939190222131200


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567941514809982977


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567944644750905344


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567922550872883202

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FuturePAF

Is India selling/giving weapons to Russia to use in the Ukraine war?


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567948728517943298

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567947305214693376


----------



## Viet

Putin as liar

He accused Ukraine as aggressor. He accused Ukraine of preparing assaults on Donbas, Luhansk and Crimea as reason why Russia went to war.

Now, Alexander Chodakowski, the commander of separatists at Donez said that’s not true. Ukraine had no intention to do so. Among the documents captured by his troops after capturing Ukrainian positions, he did not find a single tactical document that provided for offensive actions.






Bild vergrößern
Der Kommandeur der Besatzer in Donezk, Alexander Chodakowski, im Jahr 2015

Foto

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567915910882807810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567949329419083776


----------



## HorusRa

What a great week for Ukraine. Vatniks everywhere on suicide watch.


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


>


Apparently he is wrong about the translation. The ukrainians are shelling Kupyansk and havent reached it.
But if they do reach Kupyansk, the russians in Izyum could be forced to retreat east or north-east leaving most of the heavy equipment behind.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567954365750865921
Russian column destroyed


----------



## Stryker1982

Treasury Sanctions Iranian Persons Involved in Production of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles and Weapon Shipment to Russia


WASHINGTON — Today, the U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) is designating an air transportation service provider for its involvement in the shipment of Iranian Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) to Russia for its war against Ukraine. Additionally, OFAC is...




home.treasury.gov





US just added some sanctions on individuals for UCAV shipments from Iran to Russia that are so stealthy that no one has ever seen them.

Secret invisible stealth technology, so stealthy that not even Russians have seen them.

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## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567954919021514758

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## NotSure

RoadAmerica said:


> Please back up your trash above.
> And I have more than a clue as I’m German and have plenty of still there 🙄



A "german" who is a wannabe yank, denies obvious historical and political facts. What a surprise. And no, i will not play your teacher here.



ZeGerman said:


> That is why gazprom stopped refilling supplies in 2021 already?? This was planned ahead of time.


Yeah, because the hostile politics against Russia started only after the 24.2.22 and not many years before. In some parallel universe called angloid propaganda.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567956230668275716


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567957965801414657



Fleeing russians are being ambushed left and right

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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567960336342327296

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## 925boy

aviator_fan said:


> there is plenty left.


EU AKA Germany has said categorically they cannot dip further into their army's stocks to supply Ukraine, so NO, that's a lie that EU and US have "so much equipment left", because we know Ukraine has large but poor and unable military, so EU and US HAD TO BUY everyting for Ukraine, TO FIGHT RUSSIA, a powerful world military.

EU and US are also fatigued from helping Ukraine, and the moment they stop supporting Ukraine, Ukraine will start losing alot quicker on the battlefield, simple. 

Ukraine is NATO's Afghanistan war Part II, just Euro twist this time.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567967439333347333

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2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567886214589550592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567888663782064134


----------



## Vergennes



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## F-22Raptor

Here’s an official list of every military equipment the US has given Ukraine since the start of the war. It’s approximately $15.2B

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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567965147171266561
LMAO

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## mulj

Russians are suffering worst period since their agression i think only way to cope with this onslaught is ditching out this stupidity of so called special military operation and commit to war as it is or they will probably face humiliating defeat.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567971602125713410


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567970224015659011


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567950376187330560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567937855988580353


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567973955553615880


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

HorusRa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567965147171266561
> LMAO


The decisive role in this war appears to be played by a Russian guy with a packet of cigarettes.


----------



## jhungary

mulj said:


> Russians are suffering worst period since their agression i think only way to cope with this onslaught is ditching out this stupidity of so called special military operation and commit to war as it is or they will probably face humiliating defeat.


A general mobilisation on an invasion??

First of all, this will not look good on Putin resume as a leader of Russia. That is if he will not be replace or killed outright, there are going to be general pushback by the public, they (whoever actually in charge of Russia) will replace Putin faster than Ned Stark being replaced in Game of Throne. 

Putin don't call this a war from the beginning for a reason, you can't mobilise your population for an away war. Just because you execute this war poorly does not mean your people are willing to fight and died for you for some piece of land that's not their and there are nothing in return for them but death and destruction.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567976830581489664


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Just because you execute this war poorly does not mean your people are willing to fight and died for you for some piece of land that's not their and there are nothing in return for them but death and destruction.



Land has value. Ukraine used to be part of Russia for thousands of years. Many Russians do not see it as non Russian land even though Ukraine declared independence from Russia in 1991.


----------



## mulj

jhungary said:


> A general mobilisation on an invasion??
> 
> First of all, this will not look good on Putin resume as a leader of Russia. That is if he will not be replace or killed outright, there are going to be general pushback by the public, they (whoever actually in charge of Russia) will replace Putin faster than Ned Stark being replaced in Game of Throne.
> 
> Putin don't call this a war from the beginning for a reason, you can't mobilise your population for an away war. Just because you execute this war poorly does not mean your people are willing to fight and died for you for some piece of land that's not their and there are nothing in return for them but death and destruction.



I do not know what they think and with which infromation they calculate but for sure you do not wage war with 200k troops with limited air support against now fully mobilised country and suported both materialy and with OSINT by NATO.


----------



## Dalit

Does anyone know how much the Euro curreny is worth at the moment? Just an innocent question.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567966277867810816


----------



## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567902222532370433
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567904464845111297


Longer version from helmet cam of the gunner. I think he is american.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567963027084804096


mulj said:


> I do not know what they think and with which infromation they calculate but for sure you do not wage war with 200k troops with limited air support against now fully mobilised country and suported both materialy and with OSINT by NATO.



As long as Ukraine does not invade Russia proper I doubt Russians cares what happens in Ukraine as long as there is a civil war to prevent Ukraine joining NATO.


----------



## jhungary

mulj said:


> I do not know what they think and with which infromation they calculate but for sure you do not wage war with 200k troops with limited air support against now fully mobilised country and suported both materialy and with OSINT by NATO.


Again, he can't mobilise for a war that is not actually fought in Russian soil. That's the limit Putin has.

He can't pull a lot of troops, Putin still need to put troop to defend his own country. I am actually surprise that he can scrub up 200k troop to pull this off to begin with. 

And yes, starting this war, regardless of how much troop he had, is a mistake.

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## Dalit

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567963027084804096
> 
> 
> As long as Ukraine does not invade Russia proper I doubt Russians cares what happens in Ukraine as long as there is a civil war to prevent Ukraine joining NATO.



Russia is set to pounce Ukraine into oblivion. For the time being it is a cat and mouse game. This war will last for years and Russia has the longest breath. US/NATO won't be able to provide weapons and support to Ukraine for an eternity. Economic situation in Europe is bad and set to get worse. Already inflation is record high and energy prices are only going up. The appetite of Westerners to continue the war is bound to fade. Russia has the upperhand.

@HorusRa You feeling the pinch? LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Dalit said:


> Russia is set to pounce Ukraine into oblivion. For the time being it is a cat and mouse game. This war will last for years and Russia has the longest breath. US/NATO won't be able to provide weapons and support to Ukraine for an eternity. Economic situation in Europe is bad and set to get worse. Already inflation is record high and energy prices are only going up. The appetite of Westerners to continue the war is bound to fade. Russia has the upperhand.



"Will last for years". Russian lines are already crumbling,give it a few months,the mighty Russian army no longer looks as so mighty after nearly 7 months of conflict. And don't tell me they'll mobilize,no one will accept to go to die for Putler in Ukraine,majority of Russians aren't like previous generations where they would act as cannon fodder and could live with a single meal of borsch per day. 

On the other hand you have Ukrainians fighting for their existance as a people and a nation,they would rather die than live under Putler's imagination of a "Russian world". 

As for Europe do not worry,it will be short time pain for long time benefits cutting our dependence to Russia.

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## Dalit

Vergennes said:


> "Will last for years". Russian lines are already crumbling,give it a few months,the mighty Russian army no longer looks as so mighty after nearly 7 months of conflict. And don't tell me they'll mobilize,no one will accept to go to die for Putler in Ukraine,majority of Russians aren't like previous generations where they would act as cannon fodder and could live with a single meal of borsch per day.
> 
> On the other hand you have Ukrainians fighting for their existance as a people and a nation,they would rather die than live under Putler's imagination of a "Russian world".
> 
> As for Europe do not worry,it will be short time pain for long time benefits cutting our dependence to Russia.



Russia has already annexed geostrategic Ukrainian land. Try denying that. The Russians don't care about anything as long as the Ukrainians keep perishing for a European and American cause. In the end Ukrainians are moving out of their country and migrating to European nations. Europeans are also fed up of housing so many war refugees. European economy is already suffering and the common man can't take it anymore. This is only the beginning. Europeans and Americans promised to destroy Russian economy. Has this promise been fulfilled? How much is a European paying for his energy bills? The ordinary Europeans don't give a hoot about Russia Ukraine war. The ordinary Europeans are concerned about their living standard nosediving.

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## The SC




----------



## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> A "german" who is a wannabe yank, denies obvious historical and political facts. What a surprise. And no, i will not play your teacher here.
> 
> 
> Yeah, because the hostile politics against Russia started only after the 24.2.22 and not many years before. In some parallel universe called angloid propaganda.


Ok, you loose the argument in that case have a nice day.
Btw the Russian economy is done for, it won’t recover for decades

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## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> Ok, you loose the argument in that case have a nice day.
> Btw the Russian economy is done for, it won’t recover for decades



Says an American. You couldn't even win in Afghanistan and your generals are weeping till this very day.

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> EU AKA Germany has said categorically they cannot dip further into their army's stocks to supply Ukraine, so NO, that's a lie that EU and US have "so much equipment left", because we know Ukraine has large but poor and unable military, so EU and US HAD TO BUY everyting for Ukraine, TO FIGHT RUSSIA, a powerful world military.
> 
> EU and US are also fatigued from helping Ukraine, and the moment they stop supporting Ukraine, Ukraine will start losing alot quicker on the battlefield, simple.
> 
> Ukraine is NATO's Afghanistan war Part II, just Euro twist this time.


Nothing left? Lol
You saw how much was left behind in Afghanistan right? 
You don’t leave it behind if you don’t have any more.



Dalit said:


> Says an American. You couldn't even win in Afghanistan and your generals are weeping till this very day.


Way to change the topic, Russia is done. 
Get sad

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## Abid123

Dalit said:


> Says an American. You couldn't even win in Afghanistan and your generals are weeping till this very day.


They have a habit of losing so they most likely dont care.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567980744080867330


----------



## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> Nothing left? Lol
> You saw how much was left behind in Afghanistan right?
> You don’t leave it behind if you don’t have any more.
> 
> 
> Way to change the topic, Russia is done.
> Get sad



You lost in Afghanistan. You are losing against Russia. The Russians have already taken control of most important Ukrainian land. I don't know what victory you talk about.

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> Russia is set to pounce Ukraine into oblivion. For the time being it is a cat and mouse game. This war will last for years and Russia has the longest breath. US/NATO won't be able to provide weapons and support to Ukraine for an eternity. Economic situation in Europe is bad and set to get worse. Already inflation is record high and energy prices are only going up. The appetite of Westerners to continue the war is bound to fade. Russia has the upperhand.
> 
> @HorusRa You feeling the pinch? LOL


Have you seen Russians economy?
You talk of western inflation but have you looked at what the war has done to their ability to even run their country?



Dalit said:


> You lost in Afghanistan. You are losing against Russia. The Russians have already taken control of most important Ukrainian land. I don't know what victory you talk about.


Haha not fighting the Russians or are you a mental midget?
Get sad

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## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> Have you seen Russians economy?
> You talk of western inflation but have you looked at what the war has done to their ability to even run their country?
> 
> 
> Haha not fighting the Russians or are you a mental midget?
> Get sad



Have you seen Western economies? You talk about Russia, but ordinary Europeans cannot pay their energy bills and are cussing their leaders for fuelling Ukraine war. Europeans don't want a war with Russia. Only NATO and America does.

You are a pathetic American mouthpiece. Loser.

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## RoadAmerica

Abid123 said:


> They have a habit of losing so they most likely dont care.


Man you kids on here sure are butt hurt 🤣


----------



## Vergennes

Everything seems going according to the plan of the mighty Putin chess player.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567988529715609603

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567989684638289921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567987077329096704


----------



## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> Have you seen Western economies? You talk about Russia, but ordinary Europeans cannot pay their energy bills and are cussing their leaders for fuelling Ukraine war.
> 
> You are a pathetic American mouthpiece. Loser.


And how are the Russians living?
Here’s a hint watch something called joe blogs pretty impartial analysis daily. 
Or don’t you’ve already proven to be a moron.
Once again get sad

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567971602125713410


----------



## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> And how are the Russians living?
> Here’s a hint watch something called joe blogs pretty impartial analysis daily.
> Or don’t you’ve already proven to be a moron.
> Once again get sad



Spoken like a true American. Deceitful, hateful and above all arrogant.

Monday it is China hate day.
Tuesday it is Russia hate day.
Wednesday it is Moslem hate day.
Thursday it is Mexican hate day.
Friday it is Iran hate day.
Saturday it is Pakistan hate day.
Sunday it is gun day.

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> Spoken like a true American. Deceitful, hateful and above all arrogant.
> 
> Monday it is China hate day.
> Tuesday it is Russia hate day.
> Wednesday it is Moslem hate day.
> Thursday it is Mexican hate day.
> Friday it is Iran hate day.
> Saturday it is Pakistan hate day.
> Sunday it is gun day.


 Ha change the topic once more I see, trying to attack me for telling you the truth. 
It’s just sad or as I like to say get sad



Dalit said:


> Spoken like a true American. Deceitful, hateful and above all arrogant.
> 
> Monday it is China hate day.
> Tuesday it is Russia hate day.
> Wednesday it is Moslem hate day.
> Thursday it is Mexican hate day.
> Friday it is Iran hate day.
> Saturday it is Pakistan hate day.
> Sunday it is gun day.


And I see you didn’t read anything I wrote, once again how are the Russians living?


----------



## Abid123

RoadAmerica said:


> Man you kids on here sure are butt hurt 🤣


Lol... Butthurt. You are the one spamming the thread... I just stated a fact. I must have hit a nerve?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567993892313747458

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567967256726110209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567987249278754817


----------



## RoadAmerica

Abid123 said:


> Lol... Butthurt. You are the one spamming the thread... I just stated a fact. I must have hit a nerve?


Spamming? The only spamming is the minute by minute bs of Russia has taken Ukraine, Russia is selling all their oil to China 
Get sad



Abid123 said:


> Lol... Butthurt. You are the one spamming the thread... I just stated a fact. I must have hit a nerve?


Oh and the US didn’t loose the WAR in Afghanistan.
Take your time and read the word in caps then please try to comprehend


----------



## Abid123

RoadAmerica said:


> Spamming? The only spamming is the minute by minute bs of Russia has taken Ukraine, Russia is selling all their oil to China
> Get sad
> 
> 
> Oh and the US didn’t loose the WAR in Afghanistan.
> Take your time and read the word in caps then please try to comprehend


Keep them tears coming boy. 20 years to replace the Taliban with the.... Taliban...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567998080468787200


----------



## RoadAmerica

Abid123 said:


> Keep them tears coming boy. 20 years to replace the Taliban with the.... Taliban...
> 
> View attachment 877304


Oh who’s spamming now? 
Yep US still won the WAR.
How are Russians living?



Abid123 said:


> Keep them tears coming boy. 20 years to replace the Taliban with the.... Taliban...
> 
> View attachment 877304


Oh and if you tired reading a little the US and coalition combat mission formally ended in ‘14
So by process of elimination who lost?

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


>


I wouldnt pay too much attention to this guy. He has mostly been parotting russian propaganda. Now he is calling the offensive a NATO operation and talking about imaginary russian counter offensives from various directions involving 1.000 russian tanks. He doesnt know anything.


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Land has value. Ukraine used to be part of Russia for thousands of years. Many Russians do not see it as non Russian land even though Ukraine declared independence from Russia in 1991.


Thousand year history is not a justification. Under that pretext the Turks have authority from Iraq to Bulgaria because they ruled that for 100s of years. The world evolves. Or we would all be living under the Roman Empire (which by now would have included China too)

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## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> Kid, i don't have arguments with real and intellectual infants per se.
> 
> And as a german you should worry for the german economy. I do, as a "Russlanddeutscher", living here in germany.
> 
> But you?


1 I’m not a kid.
2 Germany has been a sleep at the wheel for decades so no I could care less.
3. You just like to jump from subject to subject when you loose the debate.
4. I’ll buy you a coupe cage if that will help, the sanctions are having little effect on me

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> Russia is set to pounce Ukraine into oblivion. For the time being it is a cat and mouse game. This war will last for years and Russia has the longest breath. US/NATO won't be able to provide weapons and support to Ukraine for an eternity. Economic situation in Europe is bad and set to get worse. Already inflation is record high and energy prices are only going up. The appetite of Westerners to continue the war is bound to fade. Russia has the upperhand.
> 
> @HorusRa You feeling the pinch? LOL


I don't know where you are getting information on situation on Europe is bad: Germany started producing 50% power back from coal to where its to 30% production. Its amped up nuclear by 25%

This summer airports in Europe had to tell airlines to cut flights because too many europeans were going on vacation. I don't think economies where situation is 'bad' as you to say, have their population mobilized to go on vacation. 

Russia's upper hand was to play the phantom superpower that would never expose its weakness pre-war and should have projected an image of strength vs. act on something that woudl expose and humliate it. 

The situation in Europe is not good, but its not bad. Russian middle class (about 400,000) has left. Nobody has left Europe

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## RoadAmerica

Sifar zero said:


> Leave him he's the stereotypical American idiot who believes in all the bullshit main stream media spreads.
> And as for you I have always found your arguments to be well thought out and effective.


Then try to counter argue instead of resorting to personal insults.
And where are you from? I’m sure I have some stereotypes I could use to describe you 
Get sad


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567987484000395264


----------



## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567998279346192384

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> Says an American. You couldn't even win in Afghanistan and your generals are weeping till this very day.


You are right US did not win Afghanistan. It was evil of it to have gone in the first place.

But Afghanistan collapsed USSR (or did you forget that USSR also did not gain in Afghanistan). US/NATO lost Afghanistan, USSR collapsed because of Afghanistan. At best thats an equal defeat, and possibly worse for USSR


----------



## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> Have you seen Western economies? You talk about Russia, but ordinary Europeans cannot pay their energy bills and are cussing their leaders for fuelling Ukraine war. Europeans don't want a war with Russia. Only NATO and America does.
> 
> You are a pathetic American mouthpiece. Loser.


Im an ordinary european. I can pay my energy bill, I dont cuss my leaders and I support Ukraine - as do everyone I know and have talked to these past 6 months. Exactly who are you talking about?
I follow RT and other russian propaganda sources making claims like you just did. It just isnt reality - yet.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567990273803698176
Another brutal day for Russia

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NotSure

RoadAmerica said:


> And how are the Russians living?
> Here’s a hint watch something called joe blogs pretty impartial analysis daily.
> Or don’t you’ve already proven to be a moron.
> Once again get sad


Again the Russians and their living standards. You as a german with relatives living here should be worried about the living standards HERE in germany.

But instead the most important thing for you and your psychosis is to shit on the Russians. Even if this shit is pure virtual. Meanwhile Europeans can't pay their bills and companys are getting bankrupt in huge masses. And the winter hasn't even started!

But the evil, stupid Russians!!!! You are like the Bidler in my avatar ...


----------



## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Russia is set to pounce Ukraine into oblivion. For the time being it is a cat and mouse game. This war will last for years and Russia has the longest breath. US/NATO won't be able to provide weapons and support to Ukraine for an eternity. Economic situation in Europe is bad and set to get worse. Already inflation is record high and energy prices are only going up. The appetite of Westerners to continue the war is bound to fade. Russia has the upperhand.
> 
> @HorusRa You feeling the pinch? LOL



Russia is getting its a$$ whipped. It’s now suffering it’s worst losses since Kyiv in March and losing significant territory. Its either stalled or retreating on all fronts.


----------



## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> Again the Russians and their living standards. You as a german with relatives living here should be worried about the living standards HERE in germany.
> 
> But instead the most important thing for you and your psychosis is to shit on the Russians. Even if this shit is pure virtual. Meanwhile Europeans can't pay their bills and companys are getting bankrupt in huge masses. And the winter hasn't even started!
> 
> But the evil, stupid Russians!!!! You are like the Bidler in my avatar ...


Ok name these companies en masses, I’ll wait

My point is theyre standards are far worse than when the war started.
As previously posted by another member 500k (he said 400k) of russias smartest have left.
You don’t leave your home land for good if your living standards haven’t been effected by the war. 
Oh and I’m not concerned about Germans, they’ll be fine. Just like me I can afford a little increase.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567975006101032961


----------



## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> Russia is set to pounce Ukraine into oblivion. For the time being it is a cat and mouse game. This war will last for years and Russia has the longest breath. US/NATO won't be able to provide weapons and support to Ukraine for an eternity. Economic situation in Europe is bad and set to get worse. Already inflation is record high and energy prices are only going up. The appetite of Westerners to continue the war is bound to fade. Russia has the upperhand.
> 
> @HorusRa You feeling the pinch? LOL


You sound like Baghdad Bob : check out these famous quotes. https://www.liveabout.com/baghdad-bob-quotes-4068522

Much like what you are saying that the real battle is to come is what the Iraqi info minister was saying when the Iraqi army was giving up.

It is exactly this sort of advice and mindset that Putin had from his military that got him into this. I am bitter that the somewhat multi-polar world will be more bi-polar one thanks to baseless attitude like this



Dalit said:


> Russia has already annexed geostrategic Ukrainian land. Try denying that. The Russians don't care about anything as long as the Ukrainians keep perishing for a European and American cause. In the end Ukrainians are moving out of their country and migrating to European nations. Europeans are also fed up of housing so many war refugees. European economy is already suffering and the common man can't take it anymore. This is only the beginning. Europeans and Americans promised to destroy Russian economy. Has this promise been fulfilled? How much is a European paying for his energy bills? The ordinary Europeans don't give a hoot about Russia Ukraine war. The ordinary Europeans are concerned about their living standard nosediving.


So their ambition to stop NATO expansion, go to Kiev, withdraw from Kiev, hope to install a native Govt were all deceptions to gain one more province and lose your black sea flag ship and park your airforce and fleet at base. Well played: thats strategy deception KGB style.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Ok name these companies en masses, I’ll wait
> 
> My point is theyre standards are far worse than when the war started.
> As previously posted by another member 500k (he said 400k) of russias smartest have left.
> You don’t leave your home land for good if your living standards haven’t been effected by the war.
> Oh and I’m not concerned about Germans, they’ll be fine. Just like me I can afford a little increase.



There will always be smart people in Russia. Even if all of them leave, Chinese will settle there. Like I said. Where there is land, there is people. This natural law no person can break.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> There will always be smart people in Russia. Even if all of them leave, Chinese will settle there. Like I said. Where there is land, there is people. This natural law no person can break.


You’re all alike change the subject and deflect. 
Mighty Russia is winning right 🙄
Anyone see putins latest interview where he said sanctions are having zero, that’s 0 effect. 
I’m sure you believe that too

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> You’re all alike change the subject and deflect.
> Mighty Russia is winning right 🙄
> Anyone see putins latest interview where he said sanctions are having zero, that’s 0 effect.
> I’m sure you believe that too



Depends on what is the objective. If the objective is prevent Ukraine from joining NATO then mission accomplished.


----------



## NotSure

RoadAmerica said:


> Ok name these companies en masses, I’ll wait
> 
> My point is theyre standards are far worse than when the war started.
> As previously posted by another member 500k (he said 400k) of russias smartest have left.
> You don’t leave your home land for good if your living standards haven’t been effected by the war.
> Oh and I’m not concerned about Germans, they’ll be fine. Just like me I can afford a little increase.


Again: The Russians. I talked about how UKUSA is destroying the european economy, but your answer is: The Russians. The Russians. The Russians. DId i forget something? Ah, yes: THE RUSSSSSSians. The Russians.

You nato Bots/NPCs have real mental problems.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## beast89



Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568014397578137604


----------



## dBSPL

LoL 

Do any of you know what this music means?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567429981847932930


----------



## MH.Yang



Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566750796532060163


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568025474655473664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568025479801901056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568025484155559936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568025487955628032


----------



## James David

Hack-Hook said:


> its not the question of you are richer or poorer, the comparison only concerned about how much Russia spent on the war . at least look at what the discussion is about


we can afford to spend more than your daddy russia. We are richer. It's all about the money

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568047111698092039


----------



## Han Patriot

MH.Yang said:


> View attachment 877309


Nato bots here are saying the situation is not bad. Hahahahaa


----------



## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> Again: The Russians. I talked about how UKUSA is destroying the european economy, but your answer is: The Russians. The Russians. The Russians. DId i forget something? Ah, yes: THE RUSSSSSSians. The Russians.
> 
> You nato Bots/NPCs have real mental problems.


Which companies? 
Yeh that’s what I thought, more bs
Get sad



MH.Yang said:


> View attachment 877309


More bs, is that a Russian woman?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Depends on what is the objective. If the objective is prevent Ukraine from joining NATO then mission accomplished.


They were never planning to join genius


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> They were never planning to join genius



The US wanted Ukraine to join NATO so the US can set up military bases on the Russian border and humiliate Russians, especially considering Ukraine is a Russian speaking country which would be utterly humiliating for Russians. That be like the US setting up military bases in Taiwan which would certainly cause war with China.

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## dbc

Han Patriot said:


> Nato bots here are saying the situation is not bad. Hahahahaa


..and CCP bots wishing fervently that the EU suffers this winter. Newsflash for you, there is 330 billion $'s of frozen Russian money in the EU and US. Another 200 Billion $'s in Switzerland. Plenty of money for the EU to make themselves all warm and cozy this winter.  
Besides careful what you wish for if the EU goes down China will be circling the drain right along side it. That's half a trillion dollars of yearly trade with China that will go up in smoke if the EU goes into depression. Still laughing?

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## VkdIndian

dbc said:


> Besides careful what you wish for if the EU goes down China will be circling the drain right along side it. That's half a trillion dollars of yearly trade with China that will go up in smoke if the EU goes into depression. Still laughing?


Nothing can happen to China under Papa Xi. He is invincible and can handle any and every situation.

Chinese Bots are just round the corner. They might claim that Papa Xi will start trade with Moon and Mars if EU falls.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567900209056817154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567913213454422021


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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The US wanted Ukraine to join NATO so the US can set up military bases on the Russian border and humiliate Russians, especially considering Ukraine is a Russian speaking country which would be utterly humiliating for Russians. That be like the US setting up military bases in Taiwan which would certainly cause war with China.


Prove it!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Prove it!



Because China and Russia are America's enemies, so America would like military bases in Taiwan and Ukraine. Because it a basic fact, I do not need to prove it.





__





The Axioms of Euclidean Plane Geometry






www.math.brown.edu


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Because China and Russia are America's enemies, so America would like military bases in Taiwan and Ukraine. Because it a basic fact, I do not need to prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Axioms of Euclidean Plane Geometry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.math.brown.edu


So just bs, you can’t even back up your statement with facts. Love how you’re focused on China all of a sudden



NotSure said:


> Again the Russians and their living standards. You as a german with relatives living here should be worried about the living standards HERE in germany.
> 
> But instead the most important thing for you and your psychosis is to shit on the Russians. Even if this shit is pure virtual. Meanwhile Europeans can't pay their bills and companys are getting bankrupt in huge masses. And the winter hasn't even started!
> 
> But the evil, stupid Russians!!!! You are like the Bidler in my avatar ...


Still waiting on that massive list of companies


----------



## khansaheeb

aviator_fan said:


> A lot is an exaggeration. They may have dipped a lot into the defensive stockpile (Stingers, Javelins) but the offensive capability they gave (HIMARS) , there is plenty left. Same with artillery pieces from othe rcountries. Air dropped weapons, and the entire air force inventory is very much in tact as well as long range PGMs. Only surface to surface artillery likely < 10% of it.


When Russia is weakened NATO will go in for the kill and all dressed as Ukrainian soldiers.


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## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> The Russian invasion army is caught pants down by Ukraine surprised attacks on northern and center fronts.
> Putin just anticipated Ukraine offensive at the southern front towards Cherson.


Seems like Ukraine is slowly turning red.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567912955819466755

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567915703260397568


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> When Russia is weakened NATO will go in for the kill and all dressed as Ukrainian soldiers.



First they have to learn to speak Ukrainian. If they get captured and can't speak Ukrainian they get busted as foreigners and foreigners are not taken prisoners they simply get executed.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> View attachment 877309


Don’t be ridiculous that will never come as bad like that. Maybe in some areas of Southern Europe but not the normal case. Germany gas stocks are 87 percent I expect 100 percent end of Sept. Just a shortage of gas but no shortage of coal. Wood oven is more for comfort feeling, not the major source for heating.
Besides most houses need very few energy. Thanks to gov subsidies if you renovate the houses. My house is built something like below, it can withstand -10 Celsius without heating. Walls, windows, doors are isolated against cold by 3 composite layers.





Für die Wärmedämmung ist der Primärenergiebedarf der
entscheidende Richtwert, Bild: Hornbach Holding AG

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Don’t be ridiculous that will never come as bad like that. Maybe in some areas of Southern Europe but not the normal case. Germany gas stocks are 87 percent I expect 100 percent end of Sept. Just a shortage of gas but no shortage of coal. Wood oven is more for comfort feeling, not the major source for heating.
> Besides most houses need very few energy. Thanks to gov subsidies if you renovate the houses. My house is built something like below, it can withstand -10 Celsius without heating. Walls, windows, doors are isolated against cold by 3 composite layers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Für die Wärmedämmung ist der Primärenergiebedarf der
> entscheidende Richtwert, Bild: Hornbach Holding AG


lol if only you know what the Russian media is telling Russian about EU. My friend in Russia told me some of their insane propanganda.....

There were one report saying EU have lice and ticks problem, that went so bad because people don't have enough money for gas to wash themselves daily........

Another one said the rampant of infectious disease because of bad personal hygiene and that in turn due to high gas price and European can't wash themselves regularly.

LOL.....

That is what Russian media is telling the Russia, seems like Chinese media (or at least the Chinese member here) trying to do the same. 

The fact is, most of the Gas Problem in EU are commercially related, European won't freeze to death this winter (well, other than those who live on the street who would normally risk the same thing every winter) Because electricity generation are not going to be affected and people can simply switch to Electric Heater to heat their home (It cost around $100 per) It's the business side that would suffer, but then those will relief once EU finish building those pipeline to UK and US.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> lol if only you know what the Russian media is telling Russian about EU. My friend in Russia told me some of their insane propanganda.....
> 
> There were one report saying EU have lice and ticks problem, that went so bad because people don't have enough money for gas to wash themselves daily........
> 
> Another one said the rampant of infectious disease because of bad personal hygiene and that in turn due to high gas price and European can't wash themselves regularly.
> 
> LOL.....
> 
> That is what Russian media is telling the Russia, seems like Chinese media (or at least the Chinese member here) trying to do the same.
> 
> The fact is, most of the Gas Problem in EU are commercially related, European won't freeze to death this winter (well, other than those who live on the street who would normally risk the same thing every winter) Because electricity generation are not going to be affected and people can simply switch to Electric Heater to heat their home (It cost around $100 per) It's the business side that would suffer, but then those will relief once EU finish building those pipeline to UK and US.


Here in Germany nobody really needs to worry about how to heat in winter. Simply because the gov pays it if you can’t pay.
Assume you are dumb, homeless, jobless, no money, no girlfriend, no future, the gov gives you: a free 50 sqm appartment, with standard furniture, kitchen, free warm waters, free heating. Then 450 euros per month for regular expenses foods, beers, electricity, transport.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567948825637126148

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567951983516196864


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> lol if only you know what the Russian media is telling Russian about EU. My friend in Russia told me some of their insane propanganda.....
> 
> There were one report saying EU have lice and ticks problem, that went so bad because people don't have enough money for gas to wash themselves daily........
> 
> Another one said the rampant of infectious disease because of bad personal hygiene and that in turn due to high gas price and European can't wash themselves regularly.
> 
> LOL.....
> 
> That is what Russian media is telling the Russia, seems like Chinese media (or at least the Chinese member here) trying to do the same.
> 
> The fact is, most of the Gas Problem in EU are commercially related, European won't freeze to death this winter (well, other than those who live on the street who would normally risk the same thing every winter) Because electricity generation are not going to be affected and people can simply switch to Electric Heater to heat their home (It cost around $100 per) It's the business side that would suffer, but then those will relief once EU finish building those pipeline to UK and US.


Yes mostly due to gas shortage. That’s artificial created by Moscow. There is enough gas even surplus of gas on the market. the problem is how to bring quickly this gas to Europe. There isn’t infra for liquid gas import yet.

This winter will be tough. I am looking to buy solar cells and probably electric heaters as well. Just in case. Ha ha.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Here in Germany nobody really needs to worry about how to heat in winter. Simply because the gov pays it if you can’t pay.
> Assume you are dumb, homeless, jobless, no money, no girlfriend, no future, the gov gives you: a free 50 sqm appartment, with standard furniture, kitchen, free warm waters, free heating. Then 450 euros per month for regular expenses foods, beers, electricity, transport.



Here in Australia, Cooling is more of a problem.

But assuming you are dumb, jobless, no money, the government will give you $1300 AUD a month for all essential, up to 300 a month for housing/rental, $70 a month for electricity, special $2.5 pension fare a week on transport, free medical, almost free drugs. That's per person.


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## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


> Yeah, because the hostile politics against Russia started only after the 24.2.22 and not many years before. In some parallel universe called angloid propaganda.


Your point was that russia responded to the sanctions after invasion. 
However russia turns out to have pre-planned to use gas as a weapon/blackmail half a year before their attempt to annex ukraine. 

Now you are trying to change the point in that russia faced hostile politics….
well two played that game as well with russia funding and supporting anti-eu far right parties in europe from well before 2017. 

Also if you go back in time we are wel into the soviets constantly invading/annexing/executing eastern europeans….so spare me your “victimhood” of putins russia….especially disgusting seeing their ongoing human rights abuses in ukraine….

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Here in Australia, Cooling is more of a problem.
> 
> But assuming you are dumb, jobless, no money, the government will give you $1300 AUD a month for all essential, up to 300 a month for housing/rental, $70 a month for electricity, special $2.5 pension fare a week on transport, free medical, almost free drugs. That's per person.


That’s more generous than here. Ok the Aussie are like Putin, the greedy oil sheik. From god given natural resources.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> That’s more generous than here. Ok the Aussie are like Putin, the greedy oil sheik. From god given natural resources.


lol, that's because we heavily tax our elite and our mineral industry (Coal, Iron Ore and so on) we will have to pay 47c per dollar every dollar we earn above 80,000 annually.

The New Start Allowance used to be more, giving out around $3000 a month when we are under COVID restriction. All other are the same, you still have free health care and almost free drugs and travel. Then they switch to Job Keeper, which literally give every Australian (Who was working before) $3000 a month for doing nothing for over 6 months, while everyone else continue with the New Start Allowance. I have "loss" my job with NSW Police due to COVID as my job cannot be done remotely, and not being a cop, my service wasn't needed, and I have not work since, I can get my job back, but meh....


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## jhungary

Russia claims they will take people out of occupied Kupiansk


UKRAINSKA PRAVDA — THURSDAY, 8 SEPTEMBER, 2022, 10:40




www.pravda.com.ua





Russia is pulling people out from Kupiansk, they had also move the regional capital somewhere. 

Russia is expected to lose Kupiansk in the next couple of days, report in Telegram suggested Ukrainian Force are 20km from Kupiansk..

@Oldman1 Did you remember we talked about Kupiansk like 2 months ago, looks like the Russian is exploiting the Southern Counter Offensive to retake that area. Would really love to know how Russia fight in the East in General. With Kupiansk gone, the only way Russia can supply their southern effort is thru the Kerch Strait into Crimea, then funnel Northward and Eastern ward, and I am pretty sure Ukraine is looking at that after they had taken Kupiansk..


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## SIPRA

According to latest, by Zelensky, Ukraine forces have taken about 1000 square km of area including dozens of settlements, back from Russian forces, since start of September.


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## Viet

SIPRA said:


> According to latest, by Zelensky, Ukraine forces have taken about 1000 square km of area including dozens of settlements, back from Russian forces, since start of September.


Russia occupies 125,000 including Crimea, so now minus 1,000, still 124,000 square km to go. Still a long way.

The US secretly reportedly delivers most accurate GPS guided artillery shells to Ukraine. Excalibur.







An M982A1 Excalibur round being loaded into a howitzer during US Army training in 2020.Photographer: Staff Sgt. Ashley Morris/US Army


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Russia occupies 125,000 including Crimea, so now minus 1,000, still 124,000 square km to go.


It's not what Russian occupied is the issue here, it's what Ukrainian took. 

In the last week, Ukraine took 5 strategic important cities from Russia (Balakliya, Tomyna Balka, Vysokopillya,Velyka Kostromka and one of the Yar in the East I forgot its name). And about to claim the sixth (Kupiansk) in the next couple of days. All those are important for Russian to hold the line and supply the troop. Otherwise most of the land Russian occupied currently is open land, once those key city falls, those land cannot be held by Russian anymore and they would have to evacuate.


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## Dalit

VkdIndian said:


> Nothing can happen to China under Papa Xi. He is invincible and can handle any and every situation.
> 
> Chinese Bots are just round the corner. They might claim that Papa Xi will start trade with Moon and Mars if EU falls.



LOL Why is your country India buying Russian oil and gas at huge discount and licking papa America's boots at the same time? When your Western allies ask you to condemn Russian actions you openly refuse to do so. Here you are throwing fits regarding China. It doesn't add up, pajeet. Which side are you own?

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## Dalit

dbc said:


> ..and CCP bots wishing fervently that the EU suffers this winter. Newsflash for you, there is 330 billion $'s of frozen Russian money in the EU and US. Another 200 Billion $'s in Switzerland. Plenty of money for the EU to make themselves all warm and cozy this winter.
> Besides careful what you wish for if the EU goes down China will be circling the drain right along side it. That's half a trillion dollars of yearly trade with China that will go up in smoke if the EU goes into depression. Still laughing?



Don't pat yourself on the back. You can have all the money in the world, but you still need the gas supply from other nations. Who are these nations that Europe is going to get gas from? The last news I heard, Europeans and Americans are now negotioting with Qatar and Iran LOL You can't get a nuclear deal done with Iran, but are ready to negotiate for gas.



khansaheeb said:


> When Russia is weakened NATO will go in for the kill and all dressed as Ukrainian soldiers.



Didn't the US/NATO try that in Afghanistan for 20 years? We have heard this BS before. When the US/NATO were fighting in Afghanistan we heard incredible lies and BS. In the end we witnessed the truth before our eyes. I would just sit back and grab popcorn.

All these US/NATO cheerleaders in this thread will be long gone after Russia mops the floor in Ukraine. Remember how these chumps used to break their keyboards in Afghan related threads on PDF? Where are they now? Their tall claims turned to rubble.


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## alimobin memon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567912955819466755


I believe Russia is a strong country. I don't believe one thing though, that is it has to keep tweeting to tell us that don't underestimate us and its all pre planned. If Russia wants to surprise then it will surprise Ukrainians anyway. Now one thing I believe that Russia is waiting for the right time for to punch back UA. Maybe the supplies coming from china and Iran or something even worse but in next month or 2 3 weeks some new weapons / attack methods might be used by Russia.

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568025474655473664
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568025479801901056
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568025484155559936
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568025487955628032


Are you paying attention @Hassan Al-Somal ?

Looks like a potential pocket forming.
A real one this time….

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Don't pat yourself on the back. You can have all the money in the world, but you still need the gas supply from other nations. Who are these nations that Europe is going to get gas from? The last news I heard, Europeans and Americans are now negotioting with Qatar and Iran LOL You can't get a nuclear deal done with Iran, but are ready to negotiate for gas.



Gas storages are 82% and rising. 
If the winter is harsh that would still spell problems for businesses/households, however financial support is being set up. 

West is pretty spoiled, we could do with putting on a sweater indoors…and businesses can shutdown like with covid under government support. 

Meanwhile russia will have its own problems.
Mild winter? Its blackmail will lose efficiency.
Hard winter? Its blackmail would work better…however temporary cause global recession would have gas/oil demand and prices plummet. 

A lot depends on political/public support/backbone for ukraines cause. 
That is why the counterattack is also so politically important. 
If it seemed ukraine was just getting pounded by artillery without end…public might push for a settled peace.


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## Vergennes

ZeGerman said:


> Are you paying attention @Hassan Al-Somal ?
> 
> Looks like a potential pocket forming.
> A real one this time….



So much for the "Russians sent reinforcements to shevschenkove and will defend the town and have already repelled Ukrainian attacks".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568149473200689155

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568152311112863744

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## NotSure

ZeGerman said:


> Your point was that russia responded to the sanctions after invasion.
> However russia turns out to have pre-planned to use gas as a weapon/blackmail half a year before their attempt to annex ukraine.
> 
> Now you are trying to change the point in that russia faced hostile politics….
> well two played that game as well with russia funding and supporting anti-eu far right parties in europe from well before 2017.
> 
> Also if you go back in time we are wel into the soviets constantly invading/annexing/executing eastern europeans….so spare me your “victimhood” of putins russia….especially disgusting seeing their ongoing human rights abuses in ukraine….


Do you really have such comprehension problems? No, it's not my point. my point is, and i said it many times, the hostile politics against russia started long time ago. So Russia has every right defend itself. And end the genocide on the Russian People in the Ukraine. Russia should have eliminated the nato regime in Ukraine 8 years ago.

And your hypocritical propaganda parroting about the so called "far right" politcal parties in Europe is absolutely ridiculous, if you consider the fact, that you are supporting the ukrainian nazis. You are more or less the same kind of russophobe fascist, who loves to see Russians get killed. That's your motiviation to sit here 24/7 in the thread and shit on Russians.

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## Vergennes

alimobin memon said:


> I believe Russia is a strong country. I don't believe one thing though, that is it has to keep tweeting to tell us that don't underestimate us and its all pre planned. If Russia wants to surprise then it will surprise Ukrainians anyway. Now one thing I believe that Russia is waiting for the right time for to punch back UA. Maybe the supplies coming from china and Iran or something even worse but in next month or 2 3 weeks some new weapons / attack methods might be used by Russia.



The Russians have already personnel shortage (speaks of their volume of losses) and now have to rely on DNR/LNR cannon fodder/wagner/volunteers/tiktok chechens and some VDV units as their main fighting force. Even if Putin declare total mobilization and mass forced recruitments no one will accept to die for his dreams of a "Russian world" in Ukraine.

If you thought highly of the Russians like they could take Europe in 48 hours,of course you wouldn't believe their garbage performance on the ground. Against an enemy that has a superior air force,better modern weapons and large combined arms combat capabilities,the Russians would simply get pulverized.

BTW if you think highly of the Russians you are mistaken,their only strategy on the ground is to flatten cities with artillery and to conducting frontal assaults in waves until one succeeds. The reason you hear so many assaults were repelled,the reason they are still struggling to take some villages in the Donbass for months.

@F-22Raptor amazing if confirmed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568035564452024321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567983573172363264

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## mulj

total collapse of russian forces around kharkov...

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## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


> Do you really have such comprehension problems? No, it's not my point. my point is, and i said it many times, the hostile politics against russia started long time ago. So Russia has every right defend itself.


Defend itself against what? 
Former east europe colonies wanting to run from its grasp? Demilitarised europe? 

Russia behaves like a wifebeater/rapist who stalks his ex. “Its your fault i have to be so rough, if only you did not resist”



NotSure said:


> And end the genocide on the Russian People in the Ukraine. Russia should have eliminated the nato regime in Ukraine 8 years ago.


Imaginary genocide. No such thing according to un reports. And since 2014 most deaths have been due to seperatists. 

So **** off with your baseless russian propaganda. There is a reason russias invasion was not supported by vast majority of the world. Only the likes of eritrea, iran, north korea supported russia. That should tell you enough. 


NotSure said:


> And your hypocritical propaganda parroting about the so called "far right" politcal parties in Europe is absolutely ridiculous, if you consider the fact, that you are supporting the ukrainian nazis.


Russia heavily supports our anti eu far right to break up EU…what a “victim” russia is. 

80% of the 44 million ukranian now want closer ties to EU. We stand for their freedom and sovereignity. 

You abuse the small % of far right elements in ukraine to justify ethnically cleansing millions. Its disgusting that russia abuses the word “fascist” by using it on every ukranian that not bends to its will.

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## Vergennes

mulj said:


> total collapse of russian forces around kharkov...



When you see the Ukrainian army retreating it is always done in good and organized order leaving very few things behind but when the Russian army retreats,it is always a debacle and disaster,it also happened when they were forced to retreat from Ukraine northern territories.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568147695352553473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568156410814386176

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## Vergennes

Those soldiers don't know it yet but they are writing and will be part of that history.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568172692347539457

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568173650725015553
Russian position obliterated

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## NotSure

ZeGerman said:


> Defend itself against what?
> Former east europe colonies wanting to run from its grasp? Demilitarised europe?
> 
> Russia behaves like a wifebeater/rapist who stalks his ex. “Its your fault i have to be so rough, if only you did not resist”
> 
> 
> Imaginary genocide. No such thing according to un reports. And since 2014 most deaths have been due to seperatists.
> 
> So **** off with your baseless russian propaganda. There is a reason russias invasion was not supported by vast majority of the world. Only the likes of eritrea, iran, north korea supported russia. That should tell you enough.
> 
> Russia heavily supports our anti eu far right to break up EU…what a “victim” russia is.
> 
> 80% of the 44 million ukranian now want closer ties to EU. We stand for their freedom and sovereignity.
> 
> You abuse the small % of far right elements in ukraine to justify ethnically cleansing millions. Its disgusting that russia abuses the word “fascist” by using it on every ukranian that not bends to its will.


Yeah, yeah, disgusting. Crimea a river, you westoid hypocrite with your fake outrage.

You are simply butthurt, bcs some one like me is saying the truth in to your face. And in the western empire of lies, there is no bigger thought crime, than saying the truth. Your Ukraine is not the victim, it's a bloody fascist regime, created to kill as many Russians as possible and drag Russia into a war.

And you know what, you European Herrenmensch? I feel pity for you. Look at our 20 year old nazi kid Apollon. He is openly calling Russians subhumans and calling to kill Russians. But you? You have to larp here the so called "democrat". You are supporting ukrainian nazis and at the same time you babbling something about european "far rights", who are lightyears away in beeing far right compared to your ukrainian nazi friends.

What a schizophrenia. But that is the typical mental state of the western Herrenmensch. He is a SSchizo. You know, with a double S, like the Waffen-SS.

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## mulj

Vergennes said:


> When you see the Ukrainian army retreating it is always done in good and organized order leaving very few things behind but when the Russian army retreats,it is always a debacle and disaster,it also happened when they were forced to retreat from Ukraine northern territories.


it is logical in this particular case, russians are cought with their pants down around kharkov, for global scale apparently UAF has better chain of command and communications among the troops then russians. is it because of structure of units or modern equipment i can not tell.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568108139425284097

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> Yeah, yeah, disgusting. Crimea a river, you westoid hypocrite with your fake outrage.
> 
> You are simply butthurt, bcs some one like me is saying the truth in to your face. And in the western empire of lies, there is no bigger thought crime, than saying the truth. Your Ukraine is not the victim, it's a bloody fascist regime, created to kill as many Russians as possible and drag Russia into a war.
> 
> And you know what, you European Herrenmensch? I feel pity for you. Look at our 20 year old nazi kid Apollon. He is openly calling Russians subhumans and calling to kill Russians. But you? You have to larp here the so called "democrat". You are supporting ukrainian nazis and at the same time you babbling something about european "far rights", who are lightyears away in beeing far right compared to your ukrainian nazi friends.
> 
> What a schizophrenia. But that is the typical mental state of the western Herrenmensch. He is a SSchizo. You know, with a double S, like the Waffen-SS.


Still waiting on that list 🤷🏿‍♂️


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568176915881525250
Liberated Ukrainians. Beautiful to see

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568128031184625665

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## mulj

NotSure said:


> Yeah, yeah, disgusting. Crimea a river, you westoid hypocrite with your fake outrage.
> 
> You are simply butthurt, bcs some one like me is saying the truth in to your face. And in the western empire of lies, there is no bigger thought crime, than saying the truth. Your Ukraine is not the victim, it's a bloody fascist regime, created to kill as many Russians as possible and drag Russia into a war.
> 
> And you know what, you European Herrenmensch? I feel pity for you. Look at our 20 year old nazi kid Apollon. He is openly calling Russians subhumans and calling to kill Russians. But you? You have to larp here the so called "democrat". You are supporting ukrainian nazis and at the same time you babbling something about european "far rights", who are lightyears away in beeing far right compared to your ukrainian nazi friends.
> 
> What a schizophrenia. But that is the typical mental state of the western Herrenmensch. He is a SSchizo. You know, with a double S, like the Waffen-SS.


dude, until now your country overplayed its cards, you are conducting some strange hybrid war against a serious country supported by all western world, leave ideologies aside it will not help your cause, it would be better for you to follow what will be next move from your country leadership, at the moment you are on brink of catastrophe in ukraina.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568171903919030274

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568181019441864704

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568181714639364098

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568181714639364098




That was fast. Russias Izyum front is collapsing

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> That was fast. Russias Izyum front is collapsing



Keep in mind pictures are coming to telegram channels hours if not days after they were taken,meaning Ukrainian army is probably already inside Kupiansk.


----------



## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568181714639364098


They made the 20 km in 12 hours??

Last I heard they were 20km from Kupiansk.......


----------



## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> They made the 20 km in 12 hours??
> 
> Last I heard they were 20km from Kupiansk.......



60-70km advance in 3 days


----------



## Hack-Hook

James David said:


> we can afford to spend more than your daddy russia. We are richer. It's all about the money


the problem with you is that you didn't understand what was being discussed here , and just insist make a joke of yourself by making these comments


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> 60-70km advance in 3 days


Can't find anything on the official channel, I need to log back into my Telegram account......

If true, then this is probably the biggest news so far in the war, Russian would need to withdraw and consolidate, they can't be able to hold anywhere south of Kupiansk along the entire Eastern front, because losing Kupiansk would mean everything will need to come from Crimea...

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Can't find anything on the official channel, I need to log back into my Telegram account......
> 
> If true, then this is probably the biggest news so far in the war, Russian would need to withdraw and consolidate, they can't be able to hold anywhere south of Kupiansk along the entire Eastern front, because losing Kupiansk would mean everything will need to come from Crimea...




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568185811002179584

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> There were one report saying EU have lice and ticks problem, that went so bad because people don't have enough money for gas to wash themselves daily........


well they are not completely wrong ,but I say not more than any other time ,some places in Europe have higher rate of ticks than average in rest of the world . but to be honest I can't say it has to do with economy or this war or lack of gas or anything else in that regard the subspecies of the bug that live there is simply more aggressive 


jhungary said:


> Another one said the rampant of infectious disease because of bad personal hygiene and that in turn due to high gas price and European can't wash themselves regularly.


that is just funny, if you wash your hand and face even with freezing water is enough to control the infection spread , its not that important if you go to bath once a day or once a week 


jhungary said:


> That is what Russian media is telling the Russia, seems like Chinese media (or at least the Chinese member here) trying to do the same.


i say this behavior always happened in any conflicts both side do the same thing about the other side , for example in this conflict western medias are also don't come out so rosy when it come to propaganda against Russia .


jhungary said:


> The fact is, most of the Gas Problem in EU are commercially related, European won't freeze to death this winter (well, other than those who live on the street who would normally risk the same thing every winter) Because electricity generation are not going to be affected and people can simply switch to Electric Heater to heat their home (It cost around $100 per) It's the business side that would suffer, but then those will relief once EU finish building those pipeline to UK and US.


i always wonder how much it cost more for European if they want to replace gas with electricity in their houses . here for me my bills probable will increase even more than 10 times if I use electricity instead of gas


----------



## dbc

Dalit said:


> Don't pat yourself on the back. You can have all the money in the world, but you still need the gas supply from other nations. Who are these nations that Europe is going to get gas from? The last news I heard, Europeans and Americans are now negotioting with Qatar and Iran LOL You can't get a nuclear deal done with Iran, but are ready to negotiate for gas.


I thought you were European and here you are cheering for miserable cold homes across Europe this winter. What's dutch for douchebag?🤔

The US is the largest gas supplier to Europe since March of this year. The US itself has plenty of gas for Europe and the Europeans have already built floating LNG terminals to handle the added demand. The problem isn't supply, since China and India are largely sourcing from Russia, there is plenty of gas in the middle east and the rest of the world. The problem is the added cost, the EU are about to announce energy subsidies, the Germans already did to the amount 66 billion Euros, they will debit this amount to Putin's frozen bank account simple - fully justified, since Putin is in breach of gas supply contracts.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568194373677899780


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568185811002179584


Well, this was pretty big, usually it will come with official announcement.

I know Russia had evacuated Kupiansk (I just posted the news about it like few hours ago) and expect Kupiansk to fall, but I expected it to be like a day or 2..

Now if Kupiansk really did felt to the Ukrainian, no doubt in my mind Ukraine is going to try for the bridge over Kerch strait. Take that out and Russia can only supply the war in the south by boat. Which they don't have many left...



Hack-Hook said:


> well they are not completely wrong ,but I say not more than any other time ,some places in Europe have higher rate of ticks than average in rest of the world . but to be honest I can't say it has to do with economy or this war or lack of gas or anything else in that regard the subspecies of the bug that live there is simply more aggressive
> 
> that is just funny, if you wash your hand and face even with freezing water is enough to control the infection spread , its not that important if you go to bath once a day or once a week
> 
> i say this behavior always happened in any conflicts both side do the same thing about the other side , for example in this conflict western medias are also don't come out so rosy when it come to propaganda against Russia .



That's why it's propaganda. 

But the thing is, you need to make it believable, instead of just throwing it out there and hope for the suckers to believe it. 



Hack-Hook said:


> i always wonder how much it cost more for European if they want to replace gas with electricity in their houses . here for me my bills probable will increase even more than 10 times if I use electricity instead of gas


Electricity is cheaper than gas, I don't know about Europe (I didn't live there long enough to know) but in Australia and US, you will be about 1/3 cheaper to use electric heater in Australia about half the price in the US.


----------



## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


> Yeah, yeah, disgusting. Crimea a river, you westoid hypocrite with your fake outrage.
> 
> You are simply butthurt, bcs some one like me is saying the truth in to your face. And in the western empire of lies, there is no bigger thought crime, than saying the truth. Your Ukraine is not the victim, it's a bloody fascist regime, created to kill as many Russians as possible and drag Russia into a war.
> 
> And you know what, you European Herrenmensch? I feel pity for you. Look at our 20 year old nazi kid Apollon. He is openly calling Russians subhumans and calling to kill Russians. But you? You have to larp here the so called "democrat". You are supporting ukrainian nazis and at the same time you babbling something about european "far rights", who are lightyears away in beeing far right compared to your ukrainian nazi friends.
> 
> What a schizophrenia. But that is the typical mental state of the western Herrenmensch. He is a SSchizo. You know, with a double S, like the Waffen-SS.


Again deflecting and namecalling.

Its hilarious to see you desperately squirm and cling to any excuse just to justify Putler playing risk trying to annex a sovereign nation, and justify the fascist like “z”s whom we have seen gunning down storeclercs in the back and mowing down civilian cars…next to leveling cities with dumb bombs ofcourse. 

Russian propaganda is so poorly done that it only works on those with the brain of a small child. 
This is why russia stands almost alone….
apart from “humanitarians” like iran and north korea aiding it.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568196021145976835

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> 60-70km advance in 3 days


Now with that speed (what took russia 1-2 months) you can create some pockets of cut off and surrounded foes.

Right @Hassan Al-Somal ??

Also give thank to Zelenski for feeding your people





Ukraine to ship 28,600 tons of grain to famine-stricken Somalia 07.09.2022 - UkrAgroConsult







ukragroconsult.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568196604838002688


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568206918874701825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568207542957875201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568206418083282947

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568204605187674115

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568200856750669824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568198985633959936


----------



## jhungary

Norway donate Hellfire missile to Ukraine. 









Norway sending Hellfire missiles, night vision googles to Ukraine


The Norwegian defense ministry said it would donate Hellfire missiles and night vision systems to Ukraine, to aid the country in its defense against the Russian invasion. The donation includes approximately 160 missiles, launching pads and guidance units. Both the missiles and the night-vision e




defbrief.com


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568199283278548995
Stunning. Ukraine now has better SEAD capability than Russia lol

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568195500792336384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568194689961975814

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568191660198084610

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568192418561785863

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568215129799499779

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568203137340538893


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568214571495657472

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568158445718700032


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568198653902200833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568196558885212174

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568218048745586690
thanks for the russian air defence to keep Ukrainian sky safe.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568219244059398145

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## Viet

Ukraine wants $300 billion reparation from Russia. That’s the sum the G7 has frozen it from Russia national bank.










Ukraine fordert 300 Milliarden US-Dollar Entschädigung


Die Ukraine fordert von Russland Entschädigungen in Höhe von 300 Milliarden US-Dollar. Der Betrag entspricht dem in den G7-Staaten eingefrorenen Guthaben der russischen Nationalbank.




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568220188742455298

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568220188742455298



It seems most of the soldiers of this "column" are from the 3rd army corps,mostly composed of unfit and poorly trained volunteers with no military experience. It's going to be a massacre.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568224268789456897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568220406133186561

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568215104704888833
If I were a Russian soldier in Izyum, I’d be hauling a$$ right about now.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568228249498427392

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## Vergennes

Massive if true,it would mean Russian defence collapsed even worse than we thought.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568229857066188800

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568224082503802881

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568229587439570950

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568230817171734534

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## Vergennes

Time to post again these masterclasses.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Time to post again these masterclasses.
> 
> View attachment 877456




The posts before and during the early days of this war on this forum are golden.

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## Viet

50 members of Ukraine contact group
Poland, Czech and Slovakia want to step up ammo, spare part production to meet Ukraine needs. Germany supports demining training of soldiers, wants to deliver stuffs for the winter.
All in all however it’s the US that bears the burden.


----------



## Han Patriot

dbc said:


> ..and CCP bots wishing fervently that the EU suffers this winter. Newsflash for you, there is 330 billion $'s of frozen Russian money in the EU and US. Another 200 Billion $'s in Switzerland. Plenty of money for the EU to make themselves all warm and cozy this winter.
> Besides careful what you wish for if the EU goes down China will be circling the drain right along side it. That's half a trillion dollars of yearly trade with China that will go up in smoke if the EU goes into depression. Still laughing?


Money is but a piece of paper in countries with resources. So what is Europe gonna do? Burn cash in the fire pit to avoid freezing their balls off? 70k people protesting is no small number mate.

It is the US trying to destroy the current system to reset their debt numb numb. I am not sure if you realise it. The conservatives believes the current ssutem leads to multilateralism and the rise of China. I can't say they are wrong. They want war in both Europe and Asia to reset their economy. In such a world, 500bil trade means nothing, and resources mean everything.

When will you dimwit realise that you can't eat money. In a functioning world trading system, money is important to facilitate trade. But in the current mass destruction scenario, I think this dollar trading system might collapse. The ssutem is only surviving because China and the other resource countries are in it.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> Keeping trade going and buying up resources is not what i am talking about.
> 
> Military aid will quickly get noticed on frontlines/by western intelligence services.
> China has shown to be taking quite a “hands off” role so far.
> Smart, considering the western trade is 10 times that of russia and china has its own economic issues (evergrand/corona).
> 
> Before the assembly vote, xi will not rock the boat. Why risk so much for russias dream of empire?
> 
> 1. It is not a perception of threath. Russia has numerously and structurally shown agression against eastern europe and other soviet states. If they dare to move outside of their influence they get the stick.
> 
> Proven once again now, with ukraine.
> 
> 2. Nato is a defensive alliance. europe greatly reduced their armies and sought stronger trade ties with russia.
> What “threat/hostile environment” for russia?
> 
> Stop annexing/opressing/manipulating your former colonies and they might not run to Nato for protection.
> 
> 3. Ukraine is a sovereign state where russia vowed to protect its security (in return of getting rid of its nukes). Why are you chinese treating these countries as pure buffer pawns for russia to abuse as it sees fit to “feel safe”???
> 
> 
> Us wrongs does not make russia right on this….simple logic.
> russia was already full on pressuring ukraine just for seeking closer eu ties. Including russia paying and supporting many EU far right nationalistic elements to try and break up/weaken EU….
> 
> Russia is not a passive neutral party in this.
> And EU not passive poodles of USA.
> Why do you think ukraine and poland fight so hard against russia?? Because Biden said so? Or because of things like holodomir and katyn?
> 
> The point is you think it will be a rising china vs Nato. But it is likely that rising china is gonna trample over india/japan/vietnam.
> 
> I admired chinas peacefull rise. Much better then USA forever war that is true.
> However. Now it seems to backslip into Mao style.
> It is pushing claims like the ox tongue, fueling nationalism…alienating neigbours.
> Chinese posters here have their mouth full of war….it feels like pre-WW1 europe.


Dude, sorry no time to go through all your points, Mao style? China is authoratarian but comparing our sophisticated technocratic system to peasant style Mao is oversimplication. You have the right to think what you want. The new conflict will be between Russia, Iran, China and Venezuela against the West and their poodles. India I believe will remain neutral with hostilities towards China but there will not be outright war. Notice, Iran and Russia and Venezuela are all the top 3 oil and gas producers, I am saying combined oil and gas to be precise. A new trading system ruble Yuan mix or a basket would really undermine your currently subsidized living standards. Trust me, when your balls freeze, that 2 mil$ house and Tesla car is worthless.



James David said:


> You can send the whole army of China to Ukraine to help your Russia you still loose. End of Story.


Yup Russia had been losing since 6 months ago. I am still waiting. And China haven't even supplied stuff yet. You don't want us to use our industrial might mate, 8 destroyers a year is peanuts in our country. Lololol

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## OverandOut

Video proof: US-made AGM-88 HARM into Soviet MiG-29 fighter







bulgarianmilitary.com




With this Russian radars are doomed. With no SAM cover (assume there was one to begin with) will inflict losses many folds.


The kharkiv op was a complet success for Ukrainian forces. 


https://southfront.org/successful-offensive-of-ukrainian-army/



Not sure what Russian forces have been doing since their gains but with such incompetence the fear of Russian might will fade away. I wont be surprised to see more Russian losses after this.


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> its up to you if you don’t believe it. Also, one or two months before invasion he issued ultimatum to the US and NATO, demanding the withdrawal of US troops from Europe and reversing the NATO expansion. It’s clear to everyone Putin was ready to make his move if the ultimatum was not met. When I read the news in December 2021, January 2022 I knew the war coming.
> About neutrality, it’s unrealistic to ask Poland, the Baltic’s and other in the East to remain neutrality.
> 
> The thing is it’s Russia.
> 
> If you are Swiss, then neutrality is the perfect choice.
> Swiss is surrounded by Germany, France, Austria, Italy. If Swiss has a neighbor as Russia, the Swiss will join the NATO.


Yup and you just keep on expanding NATO without giving any fck to Russia. Smart move. Anyway, I am gonna stop this, good luck in winter. Lolol

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568212792376979461


----------



## Viet

Ah cool

Germany considers reviving Hitler’s flak bunkers.
Those giant bunkers offer protection against allies air assaults during WW2.

Maybe they still offer some comfort against incoming Russia bombers.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568240894683357185


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568246115803271171


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568245612725915648


----------



## dbc

Han Patriot said:


> Money is but a piece of paper in countries with resources. So what is Europe gonna do? Burn cash in the fire pit to avoid freezing their balls off? 70k people protesting is no small number mate.
> 
> It is the US trying to destroy the current system to reset their debt numb numb. I am not sure if you realise it. The conservatives believes the current ssutem leads to multilateralism and the rise of China. I can't say they are wrong. They want war in both Europe and Asia to reset their economy. In such a world, 500bil trade means nothing, and resources mean everything.
> 
> When will you dimwit realise that you can't eat money. In a functioning world trading system, money is important to facilitate trade. But in the current mass destruction scenario, I think this dollar trading system might collapse. The ssutem is only surviving because China and the other resource countries are in it.



I guess you are incapable of engaging in a discussion without resorting to insults. 
There is still plenty of energy and mineral resource outside Russia and China - Russia isn't the world. Besides if you think China can survive without the west then you are seriously deluded. Finally, tell me why China hasn't jumped into bed with Putin so far? What's holding China back? What happened to cooperation without limits?

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Yup Russia had been losing since 6 months ago. I am still waiting. And China haven't even supplied stuff yet. You don't want us to use our industrial might mate, 8 destroyers a year is peanuts in our country. Lololol


Your China will do nothing to militarily help Russia. Am not talking about buying Russia oil or even make loans to Russia. Am talking making *DIRECT* military assistance like how China did in the Vietnam War. Will China send even cooks? No.

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## ZeGerman

Eurobarometer: Europeans broadly support EU policy towards Ukraine and Russia - EU NEIGHBOURS east


The Eurobarometer, conducted in June-July 2022, shows that EU citizens continue strongly to support the EU's response to the Russian aggression against Ukraine.




euneighbourseast.eu





Despite high energy prices. Support for ukraine in europe still strong per late july.

Lets see if and how that change in coming months but this is promising. Especially with gas reserves building up.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568208510533386241

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## F-22Raptor

gambit said:


> Your China will do nothing to militarily help Russia. Am not talking about buying Russia oil or even make loans to Russia. Am talking making *DIRECT* military assistance like how China did in the Vietnam War. Will China send even cooks? No.




Where is Russias Air Force? Absolutely no where to be found. You’d think they would have responded to Ukraines offensive by now.

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> Where is Russias Air Force? Absolutely no where to be found. You’d think they would have responded to Ukraines offensive by now.


And uptick in cruisemissiles/incendiary. 

It seems always as a reaction to some humiliating event/defeat instead of part of a consistent/planned campaign. 


But yeah….where the **** is there airforce? If at any time for them to step in (let alone combine arms which they clearly lack training/structure for), just to plug their collapsing front…it is now. 

Instead ukraine is degrading their air defence, running sead with harm…and we see bayraktar back in play…..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568240027355987970

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568194689961975814


----------



## F-22Raptor

Reports coming in that Kupyansk has been liberated and Russian forces have retreated 10-20km north.

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## The SC




----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Yup and you just keep on expanding NATO without giving any fck to Russia. Smart move. Anyway, I am gonna stop this, good luck in winter. Lolol


You see what happens to Ukraine, they are not under in the Nato umbrella. Russian hooligans and rapists coming. Best advertisement for the Nato ever.
Anyway too late
Russia eastern front collapsing.
Maybe the PLA can come to help.

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## Vergennes

Russians to compensate their garbage performance on the ground are shelling civilian areas of Kharkiv.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568258988654960640


----------



## RoadAmerica

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568229587439570950
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568230817171734534


Collapsing faster than their narrative 🤣
Time for the bear to hibernate



Han Patriot said:


> Dude, sorry no time to go through all your points, Mao style? China is authoratarian but comparing our sophisticated technocratic system to peasant style Mao is oversimplication. You have the right to think what you want. The new conflict will be between Russia, Iran, China and Venezuela against the West and their poodles. India I believe will remain neutral with hostilities towards China but there will not be outright war. Notice, Iran and Russia and Venezuela are all the top 3 oil and gas producers, I am saying combined oil and gas to be precise. A new trading system ruble Yuan mix or a basket would really undermine your currently subsidized living standards. Trust me, when your balls freeze, that 2 mil$ house and Tesla car is worthless.
> 
> 
> Yup Russia had been losing since 6 months ago. I am still waiting. And China haven't even supplied stuff yet. You don't want us to use our industrial might mate, 8 destroyers a year is peanuts in our country. Lololol


China will never supply squat
Now back to the classroom with you



Han Patriot said:


> Yup and you just keep on expanding NATO without giving any fck to Russia. Smart move. Anyway, I am gonna stop this, good luck in winter. Lolol


How will they freeze please tell?
Same bs over and over


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568267855870758917


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568270743669981186

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568254189834498049


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568280906674368524

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568271208222986247

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## SIPRA

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568254189834498049



Russian forces seem to be on retreat. So, the model of US-West appears to be working effectively.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568248865102364673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568272951933378560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568267562059988993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568198985633959936


----------



## PakAlp

Ukraine has retaken 1,000 square kilometres in a week - Zelensky


Kyiv says a lightning counteroffensive has recaptured vast swathes of territory in its south and east.



www.bbc.com













Ukraine counterattack takes Russia – and everyone else – by surprise


Ukrainian forces recapture about 154 sq miles of Russian-held territory, changing analysis of Kyiv’s military strategy




www.theguardian.com





The west is showing why they are the ruling power of the world for over a century. Russian forces are retreating, Ukraine army and weapons are difficult for the Russians to beat. 

The first sign of Russian failure was when they failed to destroy Ukrainian airforce and failed to have air superiority over Ukrainian territory, Russian airforce should have been able to destroy Ukrainian artillery, tanks etc.

2nd sign of failure was when they retreated from Kiev because they could not overtake it 

3rd was when Russia with Belarus attacked from the North but quickly retreated back. 

4th was when Ukrainian allies are openly funding, training and supporting Ukraine but Russian allies are quiet. The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, their central Asian allies, Iran, China, India are all quiet.

This war has been a disaster for the Russians, they exposed their lack of military planning, weaponry, they showed they are not the Soviet Union who became victories during WW2.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568280906674368524
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568271208222986247



Remember when they said HIMARS wouldn’t be a gamechanger?

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

What Russians gained in 6 months, Ukraine is getting back in 6 weeks.

Balkanization of Russia has started.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568284610714570757
What did I just witness

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568276196147838978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568233966884241408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568212613611282435

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568204605187674115


----------



## mmr

Good job Ukraine!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568271544249421828

HIMARS on the move

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## dbc

F-22Raptor said:


> What did I just witness


China's new suppa powa bff, at least they'll have the PLA rolling in laughter.

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568271544249421828
> 
> HIMARS on the move



LMAO 4 himars were enough to obliterate the Russians and stop their advance on every fronts,let alone if they had hundreds of them.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568289990244810752


----------



## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568284610714570757
> What did I just witness


Holy shit…russias image as 2nd superpower down the drain…what am i seeing?!



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568271544249421828
> 
> HIMARS on the move


Nonsense. I heard from a good source on this forum that they would all be hunted by russian attack helicopters. And that 40 of the 16 delivered were now indeed destroyed.

Video Must be photoshopped.


----------



## Vergennes

It seems a general Ukrainian counter offensive is on the way on the eastern front


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568296807360495616

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568296982833233921

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568287345710858240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568246879145660418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568272951933378560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568253390026850305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568267562059988993


Vergennes said:


> It seems a general Ukrainian counter offensive is on the way on the eastern front
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568296807360495616



They will reach Moscow within a month if they can get 1,000 F-16 and 2,000 M1A2 from the US.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568247324652015617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568288955514208258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568288961956659202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568293504010563585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568283737833574407

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568276196147838978


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ukrainian forces are attacking Izyum and Lyman from the South.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568272476018286592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568270322423500802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568260918512951296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568259662071435265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568259720238047233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568255360460550145

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## Viet

Breaking news

Ukraine army has broken thru the Russians second defense line deep inside 80 km of north eastern front.









Den Moment festhalten: Ein ukrainischer Soldat macht ein Selfie während hinter ihm ein Artilleriegeschütz feuert
Quelle: AP/Kostiantyn Liberov

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## The SC




----------



## Viet

While Ukraine increasingly receives smart ammunition from the West, Russia runs out of smart ammo now turns to dumb ammo.
Russia even turns to Belarus, North Korea for dumb ammo.
Russians are getting dumber.

Says a US military official.






Ukrainian servicemen work inside a Polish 155 mm self-propelled tracked gun-howitzer Krab at a position on the front line in the Donetsk region on Aug. 29.
ANATOLII STEPANOV/AFP via Getty Images

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568308618516201472

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568314463400464385

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568319363937083394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568319308228435968


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568305705274286080


----------



## Viet

the tide is turning.

Ukraine army captured Isjum, Kupjansk and Welykyj.
Russia army withdrew from those cities, admits Russia state TV.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568333006489923584


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568222139064487937


----------



## HorusRa

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/xa0lv2

Drunk Ivans are at it again  Probably my favorite footage of the war so far lmao


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568326176455680001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568319147272032256


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568331676807495680


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568312701855879169


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568343234228748289


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568295514260795392


----------



## Stryker1982

RoadAmerica said:


> Haha not fighting the Russians or are you a mental midget?
> Get sad


One should be realistic and also recognize that Russia currently occupies large parts of Ukraine, even with their setback right now, their is still a long way to go to take back all their land, as for Russia being able to push forward is also doubtful. This is a war of attrition now that either ends in a temp ceasefire or lasts for a few years.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568284453822427136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568351243986243584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568293652559962112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568345495755431938


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Depends on what is the objective. If the objective is prevent Ukraine from joining NATO then mission accomplished.


In the process of stopping one country that may have joined, they got two other countries that were never going to join NATO. So this picture is quite accurate given the disaster Bush put US into after this shot. You could not have chosen a better pic. If Putin had made decisions like this in a Casino, he would go broke (gain one, lose two)

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## Corax

The Ukrainian offensive will stall for the same reasons as the Russian advance - dilution of forces in the theatre and the stretching of supply lines. The few gains the Ukis have made could be reversed, as it's unlikely they'll be able to hold ground, they simply don't have the weight in numbers. The front lines are likely to change backwards and forwards between both sides, as it looks like a stalemate to a large degree, with both sides not having the weight and capabilities to achieve their respective objectives. What's interesting from the Russian side is the re-emergence of the O forces, they've been largely absent since Feb/March, and perhaps held back in reserve, while the V forces have done much of the work.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Because China and Russia are America's enemies, so America would like military bases in Taiwan and Ukraine. Because it a basic fact, I do not need to prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Axioms of Euclidean Plane Geometry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.math.brown.edu


I don't know how you make this stuff up. I am not on the side of NATO and this being a moral issue. But I don't know if you are teenagers in your parents apartment or you have too many censors to get you access to info to think objectively. If US didn't put a base in Taiwan since 1948, why would it put one there now. It has its battle groups, it has bases in Japan and South Korea. Then add Guam and then Diego Garcia.

What would putting a base in Taiwan's small island within easy striking range accomplish? Seriously?

Same for Ukraine: in the era of long range strike, why do you think the US would want to put any airbase that close. Its primary army bases are in Germany or Poland.

This is all a figment of your imagination of doing something so militarily stupid to put these bases. Yes US / NATO do want to check China, but they are not stupid to put a base right next door in either country when none is needed

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568330515664478211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568362102535897089


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568263131771830280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568218665438380037

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568252166074236929


----------



## aviator_fan

Viet said:


> Russia occupies 125,000 including Crimea, so now minus 1,000, still 124,000 square km to go. Still a long way.
> 
> The US secretly reportedly delivers most accurate GPS guided artillery shells to Ukraine. Excalibur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An M982A1 Excalibur round being loaded into a howitzer during US Army training in 2020.Photographer: Staff Sgt. Ashley Morris/US Army


Thats awesome. That was worth it to lose $500BN in hard cash, its intellegensia, and slowly attrit its economy. No western engineering equipment to help them extract future gas. No computers, no medicine. But yes, they have gone for the ultimate humiliation for that 1000sqkm: importing things from Iran and North Korea. Thats what their stature has gotten them.

This sort of pathetic decision making would have been expected out of Saddam and Qaddafi. But a former KGB buy could have played it better...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568357688396095488


Stryker1982 said:


> lasts for a few years



Wrong. This is the first war that lasts forever.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568344642105532418


----------



## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Yup and you just keep on expanding NATO without giving any fck to Russia. Smart move. Anyway, I am gonna stop this, good luck in winter. Lolol


Dude are you just upset that Xi is going to appoint himself emperor and nothign the billion of you can do about it? What resource richness do you have? 40Bn of your GDP is tied up in the property sector. Thats not too different from the west.

And where are you getting this imagination that people will freeze: Germany has 90% of its storage goal reached two months of winter. What this means people won't have saunas and warm pools. And may be drop the temps by a 4 centigrate in the house so they wear a sweater. They will not be out on the street without a house and freezing. Pls at least make your arguments somewhat sensical.

Whats next: Europeans are going to starve?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568342410043826177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568352148102025217


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568331699460661249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568339539562827777


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568309459977633792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568278789938941952


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568364334665068546

Russian losses now exceed 5,600

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568272222619373569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568364012387143685


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568349968548728836


----------



## Vergennes

damn,


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568312857757978624


----------



## TNT

Got to appreciate the ukranians for giving a very tough fight. Putin should have modernized russian forces. It seems Russia might need to take help from china, only china can change situation on the ground. But will china help russia with weapons and intelligence?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568356841289138178

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## Stryker1982

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568364334665068546
> 
> Russian losses now exceed 5,600


At a huge cost of Ukrainian land and infrastructure damage, as well as lives lost and displaced, Russia is also de-militarizing itself. Nato has done its job already no matter how anyone can look at it.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568369971599745027
The entire Izyum front is collapsing

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## Beny Karachun

TNT said:


> Got to appreciate the ukranians for giving a very tough fight. Putin should have modernized russian forces. It seems Russia might need to take help from china, only china can change situation on the ground. But will china help russia with weapons and intelligence?


China can't help with intelligence more than Russia can help itself. Weapons, maybe.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Russia is in serious jeopardy of its entire eastern front caving in. Svatove and Severodonetsk would be next


----------



## TNT

Beny Karachun said:


> China can't help with intelligence more than Russia can help itself. Weapons, maybe.



Chinese surveillance and intelligence capabilities are way ahead of russia and almost at par with US. They have huge number of observing satellites, coupled with AI enabled systems. The only reason Ukraine is inflicting damage on Russia is the accurate US intelligence on russian positions and ammo storages.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568391899181993985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568391961081696257


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

TNT said:


> Chinese surveillance and intelligence capabilities are way ahead of russia and almost at par with US. They have huge number of observing satellites, coupled with AI enabled systems. The only reason Ukraine is inflicting damage on Russia is the accurate US intelligence on russian positions and ammo storages.



Satellites don't work in winter. Ukraine is too cloudy in winter for satellites to see the ground. This is why Russians will do offensive in winter when the clouds will obstruct American recon satellites from seeing what's happening on the ground.

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## The SC

US Federal reserve bank: economic slowdown is coming with certainty.. and US families will suffer..

Russian prime minister: Oil and Gas revenues of Russia up 50% despite the western sanctions..

Russian finance ministry: The Chinese Yuan, the UAE Dirham and a few other currencies will replace the poisoned Dollar and Euro.. that Russia doesn't need anymore..

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

TNT said:


> Got to appreciate the ukranians for giving a very tough fight. Putin should have modernized russian forces. It seems Russia might need to take help from china, only china can change situation on the ground. But will china help russia with weapons and intelligence?



Russia will lose this war and get balkanized.

China will get Eastern Russia.



F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is in serious jeopardy of its entire eastern front caving in. Svatove and Severodonetsk would be next



NATO will capture Moscow before winter sets in.


----------



## ZY-CN-CA

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russia will lose this war and get balkanized.
> 
> China will get Eastern Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> NATO will capture Moscow before winter sets in.


I think China mainly experienced in Taiwan
The border with Russia will not change


----------



## Han Patriot

dbc said:


> I guess you are incapable of engaging in a discussion without resorting to insults.
> There is still plenty of energy and mineral resource outside Russia and China - Russia isn't the world. Besides if you think China can survive without the west then you are seriously deluded. Finally, tell me why China hasn't jumped into bed with Putin so far? What's holding China back? What happened to cooperation without limits?


I think in an interconnected world, everybody depends on one another, that is assuming the current dollar system can function. But if you keep on printing dollars and sanction every god damn country because you hate them, who the fck in their right minds can continue using it. Look at Europe and US now with their inflation, a simple respect of the security concerns of other would have ensured a peaceful world but no, they want to control every God damn thing and imposed their 'values' to the world while printing money to subsidise their lifestyle.



gambit said:


> Your China will do nothing to militarily help Russia. Am not talking about buying Russia oil or even make loans to Russia. Am talking making *DIRECT* military assistance like how China did in the Vietnam War. Will China send even cooks? No.


Yup I am sure nothing is happening. Those Nk and Iranian drones have no Chinese components at all. I am very veery sure. Lolol. The same reason why Papa US is only shouting on the sides and not fighting in Ukriane huh? Lol



Viet said:


> You see what happens to Ukraine, they are not under in the Nato umbrella. Russian hooligans and rapists coming. Best advertisement for the Nato ever.
> Anyway too late
> Russia eastern front collapsing.
> Maybe the PLA can come to help.


What is happening? I see Russia gaining 20% of Ukraine and Europe is under high inflation and their balls are freezing. Lol. Collapsing so high taht all the European gases are going to be diverted to China matey. Lololol

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## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> Dude are you just upset that Xi is going to appoint himself emperor and nothign the billion of you can do about it? What resource richness do you have? 40Bn of your GDP is tied up in the property sector. Thats not too different from the west.
> 
> And where are you getting this imagination that people will freeze: Germany has 90% of its storage goal reached two months of winter. What this means people won't have saunas and warm pools. And may be drop the temps by a 4 centigrate in the house so they wear a sweater. They will not be out on the street without a house and freezing. Pls at least make your arguments somewhat sensical.
> 
> Whats next: Europeans are going to starve?


Yup China has no resources at all matey, and those desperate old ladies in Germany burning wood from park benches, they aren't affected at all. Lolololol. I bet you don't see our world class infrastructure, where do you think we invest our money? 

1) words largest expressway system 
2) largest high speed rail 
3) largest port system
4) largest uhv transmission
5) largest Hydro electric system
6) largest wind power system 
7) largest solar system
8) largest mass transit system. 



Yup ITS ALL. IN PROPERTIES. LOL


----------



## serenity

aviator_fan said:


> I don't know how you make this stuff up. I am not on the side of NATO and this being a moral issue. But I don't know if you are teenagers in your parents apartment or you have too many censors to get you access to info to think objectively. If US didn't put a base in Taiwan since 1948, why would it put one there now. It has its battle groups, it has bases in Japan and South Korea. Then add Guam and then Diego Garcia.
> 
> What would putting a base in Taiwan's small island within easy striking range accomplish? Seriously?
> 
> Same for Ukraine: in the era of long range strike, why do you think the US would want to put any airbase that close. Its primary army bases are in Germany or Poland.
> 
> This is all a figment of your imagination of doing something so militarily stupid to put these bases. Yes US / NATO do want to check China, but they are not stupid to put a base right next door in either country when none is needed



The guy you're responding to is "Tai Hai Chen" user falseflagger. Either the biggest troll or some young autistic child. Used to promote Indian bullshit talking points in the past and was super pro Russia and anti-China then retarded pro China and still super pro-Russia. Maybe Russian paid who knows but certainly not speaking for Chinese. Most lines are borderline retarded except for a few insightful nuggets hahaha a broken clock is right twice a day in 12 hour format so...



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russia will lose this war and get balkanized.
> 
> China will get Eastern Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> NATO will capture Moscow before winter sets in.



No chance Russia will surrender their land. Not to China not to USA or Europe, not to Ukraine.

NATO capturing Moscow? Only if somehow all Russian nuclear weapons are neutralized and if they even smell such a possibility due to secretive methods, they will simply go diplomatic route or perform total war and total nuclear exchange before NATO even gets 100km of Moscow. NATO is not the 4D chess master some are implying here. It has little interest to overtly cover Moscow and take over Russia. It has the chance to implement puppet leaders and regimes into Russia to take over their resources.

OPEC leash is not that tight it appears. Russian leash if it ever even comes down to that which I feel is a fantastical imagination, would also be a loose one so much that it will almost not be there.

Pro Russia people are suggesting this allowing counteroffesnive is a trap? Not sure if that is true but sometimes pro NATO people see one win in 100 losses and suddenly they talk about taking over Moscow.

The only thing known now is all are unknown.


----------



## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568276196147838978
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568233966884241408
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568212613611282435
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568204605187674115


That is not the same sign, you can see from the sign and the road next to the sign they were shot in different area......And the Russian now said the picture was taken on the other part of Kupiansk now





__





“Photoshop troops in action”: how the Russians of Krivuko are trying to lie about the situation near Kupyansk – News







newsreadonline.com

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## sammuel

Han Patriot said:


> Yup China has no resources at all matey, and those desperate old ladies in Germany burning wood from park benches, they aren't affected at all. Lolololol. I bet you don't see our world class infrastructure, where do you think we invest our money?
> 
> 1) words largest expressway system
> 2) largest high speed rail
> 3) largest port system
> 4) largest uhv transmission
> 5) largest Hydro electric system
> 6) largest wind power system
> 7) largest solar system
> 8) largest mass transit system.



9) largest number of hungry mouths to feed.

~



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568331699460661249



Fiesta ? i see one vehicle , loaded who knows where. I think you need more than one for it to be a " fiesta ".

Why do you post this nonsense ?

~

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## Reashot Xigwin

Izyum has already fallen. God the russian suck huge balls


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568300744255721472


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Russian retreat from Kharkiv

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567982569874157569


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568468010020773891

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568263131771830280
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568218665438380037
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568252166074236929


Why are you regurgitating the most ridiculous russian propaganda?

This massive abandonment of material and retreat is all a clever ploy and again talk about a “pocket closing imminently” by the russians?? Really?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russian retreat from Kharkiv
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567982569874157569


Ghanima

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## Reashot Xigwin

Kharkiv offensive in graphic form provided by a very nice cartoon dog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568227635641331713


ZeGerman said:


> Why are you regurgitating the most ridiculous russian propaganda?
> 
> This massive abandonment of material and retreat is all a clever ploy and again talk about a “pocket closing imminently” by the russians?? Really?
> 
> 
> Ghanima


LOL its the same people that think throwing thousands of soldiers to try to take kyiv was a feint.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568471469893599232

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568468746930647040
Ukrainian forces in Kupyansk

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Russia claims they will take people out of occupied Kupiansk
> 
> 
> UKRAINSKA PRAVDA — THURSDAY, 8 SEPTEMBER, 2022, 10:40
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pravda.com.ua
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is pulling people out from Kupiansk, they had also move the regional capital somewhere.
> 
> Russia is expected to lose Kupiansk in the next couple of days, report in Telegram suggested Ukrainian Force are 20km from Kupiansk..
> 
> @Oldman1 Did you remember we talked about Kupiansk like 2 months ago, looks like the Russian is exploiting the Southern Counter Offensive to retake that area. Would really love to know how Russia fight in the East in General. With Kupiansk gone, the only way Russia can supply their southern effort is thru the Kerch Strait into Crimea, then funnel Northward and Eastern ward, and I am pretty sure Ukraine is looking at that after they had taken Kupiansk..


Indeed! Definitely talked about it. Either with missile or artillery strikes or maybe an offensive attack I believe. Russia may try to save what they can by sending in forces which means the Ukrainians need to ambush any possible counter attacks from the north general direction Vovchansk. Ukrainians should keep moving around fast and causing chaos, isolating and killing and capturing Russian units, capturing more equipment and vehicles and ammo. Besides moving around and killing and capturing the Russian forces, it prevents them from providing coordinates to their artillery which means they would be mostly blind and fear of possibly getting overrun hopefully by the Ukrainian spearhead since the Russians really depend on the artillery. Need to clean the region of the Russian forces from Ukrainian-Russian border all the way south to Izium that it would have to be a very clean slate and the Russian forces will not be motivated to re-establish an offensive attack ever again. Be like me destroying your sandcastle after months of building it and its now all destroyed and flat, washed away. Next stop would be to attack Luhansk region, especially the northern part.

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## mulj

Beside which side you support you have to appreciate this epic style of lifting battle spirit, rare scenery.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568347655595765760
On the front situation, i do not see how russians can reverse situation and gain initiative again without commiting much more resources and man power, ukrainians have better morale and all help received is starting to pay of in land gains and russians could face domino effect in next months.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Ukraine needs both active and passive area denial weapon. They needed more SAM system rather than just the 2 NASAM promised but yet delivered by the US (Or Norwegian)
> 
> HARMs are going to hit limits by the sorties of UAF that fly them, which mean if you keep supplying them with HARM to do SEAD, you will most likely need to supply the Ukrainian with the aircraft that launch SEAD from. UAF lost around half of their inventory since the war begin.


I like that Vampire system which can be easily put on a simple technical truck. Maybe send in some Avenger Humvees as well. But if not, at least something on these similar with 2 pods. 








jhungary said:


> I too would not think Putin is bolt enough to escalate the thing. However, seeing how NATO refused basic Ukrainian request based on it "would' or "might" seen as an escalation (I mean, NATO got pussyfooted to even supply Polish Mig to Ukraine...) NATO top brass seems unwilling to commit claiming it will escalate, not sure whether or not they really do believe it will escalate the whole thing or just unwilling to help Ukraine with that.
> 
> I don't make decision at NATO......but if it was up to me, I would have set up No Fly Zone over Ukraine already, let Russia worry about getting into Nuclear War and call their bluff. But well, I don't make decision there, and they do, and they seems to think this is not a good idea.....
> 
> 
> Well, Ukrainian need at least 60 HIMARS or M270, we gave them 16.....(4 with the last aid package) We should have transferred 100 or 50 M270 that was retired from USMC when they switch to HIMARS.
> 
> I don't really think the current administration has the stomach to kill as many Russian troop as possible. Either that or Biden is really senile and can't read the situation right......I dont know


I say give them 25 more to reach to 50. Enough for half attacking the frontlines and other half attack the rear as well. Biden doesn't have a say in how many Russians should be killed by the Ukrainians.

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## Reashot Xigwin

American volunteer near Kharkiv

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568263405412433920

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## Reashot Xigwin

.....& the Ukrainian have founds evidence of Russian warcrimes during their march on Kharkiv. Expect to see Bucha but worse somehow. Wait for further confirmation.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568483008952287232

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568483758751490048

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568485655625211904
Kupyansk liberated


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568487455887589382

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568487108796456960

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## Reashot Xigwin

Chef kiss... Also relax this is the clean version. No blood just satisfying explosion. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568312857757978624


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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Satellites don't work in winter. Ukraine is too cloudy in winter for satellites to see the ground. This is why Russians will do offensive in winter when the clouds will obstruct American recon satellites from seeing what's happening on the ground.


probably Russian made they use infrared or optical.

US military satellites use other sensors in addition to see thru clouds and bad weather.
Germany military satellites Sarah use a combi of 3 sats: the middle has phased radar, the left and right have electromagnetic waves radars. The constellation gives perfect 2D or 3D pictures on the ground. No matter clouds or not.





Die drei neuen Sarah-Satelliten bestehen aus zwei Reflektor-Satelliten und einem Phased-Array-Satelliten.

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## sammuel

ZeGerman said:


> This massive abandonment of material and retreat is all a clever ploy and again talk about a “pocket closing imminently” by the russians?? Really?



mmm , maybe a clever diversion , like the one we saw in Kiev .


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## F-22Raptor

Russia has lost the Battle of the Donbass. With the collapse of the Izyum front, it makes capturing the Donetsk Oblast nearly impossible.

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568485655625211904
> Kupyansk liberated
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568487455887589382


And there go all the russian reports that waves of ukranians were stopped at kupyansk by wagner/Z…..

Why do the russians lie so blatantly and constantly? It just makes you treat EVERYTHING they say as a pile of manure.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568499029981511685
Izyum has been liberated

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## Reashot Xigwin

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568499029981511685
> Izyum has been liberated


If there still any russian fanboys on this site or others can now be disregarded as mentally ill or deserving to be punched in the face. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568357799603699712

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## F-22Raptor

Now there are reports that Ukrainian forces are attacking Lyschansk. Is Russias entire Eastern front going to collapse?

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## alimobin memon

If this is all true. Ukraine has earned the respect from everyone.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russian propagandist running away from izyum

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568348413636542467


F-22Raptor said:


> Now there are reports that Ukrainian forces are attacking Lyschansk. Is Russias entire Eastern front going to collapse?



Could be. What's on twitter are few hours late or days from on the ground. But I'm not surprised though. The russian has shown to be so incompetent. I'll trust an armed monkey to guard a military base.

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## kenyannoobie

Goodness! There's so much propaganda in here many threads look like standard MSM outtakes-because they are! For me, a constant history reader it confirms since Man first stood up on 2 legs there's been nothing new in our sociohistory under the sun.
This area,the Crimea, the Ukraine and the wider Caucasus has an especially interesting history. The details aren't important-the wider story has played itself out endlessly ever since the Kurgans,a tribe of extremely aggressive Caucasoid Neanderthals the ancestors of todays Caucasus people,the Dagestanis,Chechens,Georgians,Armenians,Abkhazians,Azeris,Turkics (not Turks!) etc,etc and ofc the Khazars stumbled off the steppes 5000 yrs ago into today Caucasus region.








A mere glance at history shows the current war is simply the latest in a LOONNGGG series of conflicts,mass murders and genocides involving the Indigenes,local and foreign state actors,the most recent being the Armenian/Azeri war last year.
As far back as a 2 millennia the first genocide of the Originals,the Out-of-Africa migrants dating from 50 kya migrations by the invading Kurgans from the steppes happened. 







Warning! Graphic! They took heads of the leaders of the Originals as trophies.

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Russia/Russian_history.htm

If you know where to look their descendants are still around.






Now they're almost totally assimilated.






Let me leave with this typical example of a denatured Originals.






Since then the Caucasus people have massacred each other so regularly peace is just an interlude between normal times! Apart from the better known Chechen and Nagorno Karabakh wars and Armenian clashes with Azeris the Caucasus hasn't enjoyed a continuous 5 yrs of peace since.....Hmmm,I don't know when!

These are just 2 wars. The first was a 50 yr campaign that killed a million +!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_War

This was actually a series of 12 campaigns lasting 300 years!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Russo-Turkish_wars

Rmbr how Georgia was manoeuvred into provoking Russia into war in 2008? *WTF does that!?*

At least it left us this memorable meme of then Prez Shasvilli. Btw,he's besties with Zelensky,

*



*

Speaking of Georgia there's an ancient culture of blood feuds.

_"A 2002 article published in The Guardian reports some anecdotal figures on blood feuds in Svaneti (30 July 2002). According to a local resident, there were at least 20 families feuding in Mestia, the main city of Svaneti; the Guardian reporter also heard about one blood feud in the village of Becho Marina that resulted in 22 deaths over 10 years (The Guardian 30 July 2002). These figures could not be corroborated among the sources consulted by the Research Directorate.


According to the photojournalist, in the late 1980s and early 1990s there were intensive blood feuds in Svaneti, but such murders have decreased significantly since 1990 (19 Jan. 2011). He expressed the opinion that it has become "quite rare" to kill somebody for blood-feud-related motives, even though tensions between clans and families continue (Photojournalist 19 Jan. 2011). The HRIDC Executive Director, who similarly indicated that blood-feud killings are less frequent, was aware of only a few cases occurring between 2000 and 2010 (21 Jan. 2011)."
https://www.refworld.org/docid/51dd0ef84.html_

*Its obvious there's smth in the air,water,DNA or socioculture of these people.*






One should be careful making such statements but imo the evidence is undeniable. Ideally someone from the Caucasus should tell us. Anyone else is ofc free to make a comparative study of anywhere else on earth and tell us.

If I'm wrong I'll apologise.


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## Primus

alimobin memon said:


> If this is all true. Ukraine has earned the respect from everyone.


Eh not really. Both sides are morons for what they did in this war.


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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL the rusky propagandists are now starting to panic 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568310989149605888

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## sammuel

~
Just announced :

Ukrainian Armed Forces have liberated Kupiansk from Russian occupation - official​









Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests, terrorism, weapons deployment, health matters, natural disasters, and weather...




liveuamap.com





if the road leading from Kupiansk to Lyman is cut off . Russians would have some serious problem supplying their soldiers trapped in the area .

~
​

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## OverandOut

alimobin memon said:


> If this is all true. Ukraine has earned the respect from everyone.


If rag tag afghan can do it with uncle sam and all the bunch backing then For Ukraine who aren’t rag tags should have a walk in the park. 


Intelligence and communication is the key here. This is what Usa and west have provided to Ukraine and with that they provided strategic weapons that would reap maximum benefits. Now that Ukraine has produced dividends the investors will pour in more money and equipment. This is not a good look for Russia and could be the end for Russian invasion. But of course, Russia isn’t going to sit idly by and let its international reputation get destroyed(?). It will lose face, a country who could not even fight for its own interest and security.

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> Now there are reports that Ukrainian forces are attacking Lyschansk. Is Russias entire Eastern front going to collapse?


Very possible not only the eastern, but center and southern fronts will collapse if Putin sticks to his own propaganda: everything runs well according to plan.
Russian soldiers don’t know why they are sent to Ukraine.

Putin will face the choice, using everything every weapons he has in inventory, mass mobilization, or tactical nuclear weapons.


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## MeFishToo

Source (War in Ukraine)
Russians retreated to eastern side of Oskil river. Russian airborne units dropped east of Kupyansk. Two minor escape routes across Oskil in the south, but Ukraine is putting preassure on those escape routes by crossing Siverskyi Donetsk near Lyman.
The Izyum bridgehead is basically lost as is Kherson in a matter of time. Wonder how Putin is going to sell this a victory.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Before & after. Yep it's a total rout. A complete Ukrainian victory in izyum region.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568460547452014592

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Yup I am sure nothing is happening.


For the PLA? Correct. Cannot afford to dirty those parade uniforms.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568370177124999168

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## dBSPL

Russian forces have left Izyum. The official statement will probably come within the day.

Russia had to leave the region, which it had been fighting for 4 months, in just 4 days.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> I like that Vampire system which can be easily put on a simple technical truck. Maybe send in some Avenger Humvees as well. But if not, at least something on these similar with 2 pods.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I say give them 25 more to reach to 50. Enough for half attacking the frontlines and other half attack the rear as well. Biden doesn't have a say in how many Russians should be killed by the Ukrainians.



Humvee is a very versatile platform. And since it was already 40 years old (The first one was issued back in 1983 IIRC) they are dirt cheap. We should be sending 2000 Humvee with different weapon station on top. 

And they would need at least 100 to rout the Russian entirely. It's pointless not to follow up on the success in battlefield after they all but routed the Russian from Eastern Front. 



Oldman1 said:


> Indeed! Definitely talked about it. Either with missile or artillery strikes or maybe an offensive attack I believe. Russia may try to save what they can by sending in forces which means the Ukrainians need to ambush any possible counter attacks from the north general direction Vovchansk. Ukrainians should keep moving around fast and causing chaos, isolating and killing and capturing Russian units, capturing more equipment and vehicles and ammo. Besides moving around and killing and capturing the Russian forces, it prevents them from providing coordinates to their artillery which means they would be mostly blind and fear of possibly getting overrun hopefully by the Ukrainian spearhead since the Russians really depend on the artillery. Need to clean the region of the Russian forces from Ukrainian-Russian border all the way south to Izium that it would have to be a very clean slate and the Russian forces will not be motivated to re-establish an offensive attack ever again. Be like me destroying your sandcastle after months of building it and its now all destroyed and flat, washed away. Next stop would be to attack Luhansk region, especially the northern part.



Just as I said, once they took Kupiansk (which they officially did now) Russia would have to abandon anything South of Kupiansk. Some say Ukraine announced a Southern Offensive to draw Russian troop to the south so they can do this, but as I mentioned a few months ago, strangely the regular unit is absent from fighting in the East, they probably are trying to push, just that Ukraine most likely exploited the Southern Offensive for the best result. 

4 months of fighting in the East now all for almost nothing.

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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> For the PLA? Correct. Cannot afford to dirty those parade uniforms.


You mean those US parade uniforms? Lol


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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568335638771924992
Ukrainian soldiers sing the national anthem of Ukraine somewhere in the Kharkiv region.
Slava Ukraini!

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## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> You mean those US parade uniforms? Lol


US Don't have Parade Uniform. Not since the 60s. 

Parade seldom happens in the US, if they do, they wear Utilities or ACU/OCP except for the passing out, you wear Dress Green/Blue. 

US Military only have 4 types of Uniforms, Dress Uniform, Mess Uniform, PT Uniform and Combat Uniform.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568513828379586561
Even top Russian propagandists are admitting the debacle

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## [TR]AHMET

as the war seems russians weapons very far away from today's technology, they are really weak as capability and from technological side. If any war happen between to Russia and USA without nukes, USA can send to Russia to stone age. 

Rusia destroyed its image itself front of the countries. After that very diffucult days waiting for Russia i hope China get lesson from this because expansionist policy is not for this century.

We have to develope our relationships with the all countries and working for trade from peacefull sides. War mean is demolition for all sides.

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## dBSPL

HorusRa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568335638771924992
> Ukrainian soldiers sing the national anthem of Ukraine somewhere in the Kharkiv region.
> Slava Ukraini!


There is no doubt that this victory will be a tremendous source of morale for the Ukrainian soldiers, who have been forced to defend their homeland under very difficult conditions for months.

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## Elvin

Where are all of these Russian bots and paid spammers who have had a hard on for Russia the last few months?

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## Broccoli

dBSPL said:


> Russian forces have left Izyum. The official statement will probably come within the day.
> 
> Russia had to leave the region, which it had been fighting for 4 months, in just 4 days.



Complete collapse.

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## mulj

Lyman has fallen also, they fought for it many months but lost it again in week.
Complete disarray, now it is only remained to see how much teritory UAF will regain before attack fizzle out due troops and equipment fatigue.

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## jhungary

mulj said:


> Lyman has fallen also, they fought for it many months but lost it again in week.
> Complete disarray, now it is only remained to see how much teritory UAF will regain before attack fizzle out due troops and equipment fatigue.


They are going to lose chunk of occupied territories East of Izyum, without Kupiansk unless Russia can build a Railway network from Rostov before winter (In a month or so time), they can't really supply the Russian force at the far east of Luhansk. They would need to once again depends on the road network and we all saw how that ends the last time.

Whatever supplies they have in Luchansk will be it for a while, depends on how much logistic effort the Russian can speed up from Crimea, the Russian force in the East may not have enough supply to last thru winters......

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## dBSPL

Broccoli said:


> Complete collapse.


(Another) big defeat for Russia that is hard to digest.

In the first pages of this topic(first thread), I have repeatedly written about the corruption and structural problems in the Russian army, and I wrote that this adventure will seriously damage Russia's 'mighty land force' image. And that a country with a diplomatic tradition like Russia should not fall into such a simple trap. Maybe regulars of the thread will remember. At that time, many pro-Russian friends made fun of what I wrote.

Russia had to provide the appropriate political way in order to turn the conditions in its favor over time with a solution that would 'save its face' asap. Because as the war progresses on the field, the staff of the army will continue to blush the state. At this point, a U-turn is no longer possible. Either complete defeat has to be digested( I think it is out of question with current Kremlin) or Russia has to become even more aggressive.

I am happy for Ukraine. However, conditions will become much more risky for our region, and this should be taken into account. There is both Russian military incompetence and political folly, which can be manipulated by the western bloc, the kind of combination that could create a dangerous reaction for a country with Russia's capabilities.

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## HorusRa

Elvin said:


> Where are all of these Russian bots and paid spammers who have had a hard on for Russia the last few months?



Overdosing on Copium

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568540357255634944

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## Reashot Xigwin

If you want to see how of a shitshow the russian army retreat was look no further. This is what the chinese want as an ally against the west btw. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568284610714570757

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## Viet

dBSPL said:


> (Another) big defeat for Russia that is hard to digest.
> 
> In the first pages of this topic(first thread), I have repeatedly written about the corruption and structural problems in the Russian army, and I wrote that this adventure will seriously damage Russia's 'mighty land force' image. And that a country with a diplomatic tradition like Russia should not fall into such a simple trap. Maybe regulars of the thread will remember. At that time, many pro-Russian friends made fun of what I wrote.
> 
> Russia had to provide the appropriate political way in order to turn the conditions in its favor over time with a solution that would 'save its face' asap. Because as the war progresses on the field, the staff of the army will continue to blush the state. At this point, a U-turn is no longer possible. Either complete defeat has to be digested( I think it is out of question with current Kremlin) or Russia has to become even more aggressive.
> 
> I am happy for Ukraine. However, conditions will become much more risky for our region, and this should be taken into account. There is both Russian military incompetence and political folly, which can be manipulated by the western bloc, the kind of combination that could create a dangerous reaction for a country with Russia's capabilities.


You have good points.

I also predicted in the first week of invasion Russia economy would collapse, Russia living standard get lowering, Putin making Russia to a chinese colony. However I never imagined such low scale of Russia army incompetence.

The worst of all is constant cheap propaganda by Moscow that tries to camouflage everything. Lies and deceptions prevail over everything.

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## mulj

jhungary said:


> They are going to lose chunk of occupied territories East of Izyum, without Kupiansk unless Russia can build a Railway network from Rostov before winter (In a month or so time), they can't really supply the Russian force at the far east of Luhansk. They would need to once again depends on the road network and we all saw how that ends the last time.
> 
> Whatever supplies they have in Luchansk will be it for a while, depends on how much logistic effort the Russian can speed up from Crimea, the Russian force in the East may not have enough supply to last thru winters......





jhungary said:


> They are going to lose chunk of occupied territories East of Izyum, without Kupiansk unless Russia can build a Railway network from Rostov before winter (In a month or so time), they can't really supply the Russian force at the far east of Luhansk. They would need to once again depends on the road network and we all saw how that ends the last time.
> 
> Whatever supplies they have in Luchansk will be it for a while, depends on how much logistic



North front is probably lost for russians at the moment, UAF made sucessfull bridghead over severnodoneck river, so they will probably conitnue towards border instead to donbas.


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## dBSPL

Reashot Xigwin said:


> If you want to see how of a shitshow the russian army retreat was look no further. This is what the chinese want as an ally against the west btw.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568284610714570757


In the last 3-4 months, I think at least 20-30 more events like this have been caught on UAV cameras. And even worse, these events are not individual incidents actually, reflecting a part of big picture.

Social psychology adapts easily to the conditions and so quickly adopts the new normal. The image of the Russian ground army was shattered in less than 6 months.

Staff incompetence, even incompetence at the commanding levels of the army, cowardly soldiers who are not willing to fight, technical impossibilities, logistic failures, looting and desertion incidents, fronts where the chain of command is destroyed... Even in PSYOPs, where the Russian military has traditionally been strong, we see it lagging behind.

Russia lost its 'military power epaulettes' on Ukrainian soil, mostly. Russian policy makers will feel the consequences of the radical change in the psychological impact of their country on different parts of the world and in all areas. It's a big country with nuclear deterrence, but there's a big void as the conventional sense.

It have nuclear deterrent but struggling with numerous problems in production and supply chains in all other conventional systems... As the war progresses, Russia's leverages will weaken more and more. (Europe is about to get through the worst, they just need 1-2 years.) All this, I fear, could lead Russia into a dangerous game.


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## MeFishToo

Maybe a major russian defeat is humiliating, and it does pose a risk of some major russian respons in Ukraine or somewhere else, in order for Putins regime to save face. Its a threat the world has been living with since the 50s. It is what it is. 
Ukraine has every right to defend itself, and the rest of the world has the moral responsibility to support them. Russia has to be contained while they, by themself, figure out how to get rid of Putin and his regime.

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## Vergennes



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## Wesen Hunter

Russia needs to announce a Total war against Ukraine and announce mass mobilization and shift economy into war mode.
Aim should be to take entire Ukraine.

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 877666


With the siege of Kyiv ending in a fiasco (I think it was the second or third week of the war), anyone capable of strategic thinking could see how Russia got stuck in a quagmire and how this business turned into a counter-factor that would wear Russia out tremendously. Russian propaganda accounts have held up well to this day. But failure on the field (and at the table) cannot be covered up for long with just social media.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568549645327949832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568509954394316800
Himars sending its regards

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> With the siege of Kyiv ending in a fiasco (I think it was the second or third week of the war), anyone capable of strategic thinking could see how Russia got stuck in a quagmire and how this business turned into a counter-factor that would wear Russia out tremendously. Russian propaganda accounts have held up well to this day. But failure on the field (and at the table) cannot be covered up for long with just social media.


They didn't even know what they wanted to do. It's as if they had no clear target. What's the point of declaring DPR and LPR independent 2 days before you invade the entire country to annex them and grab more land. They sent their men with bad logistics,they fought here and there without having a clear target,retreating here,going there,trying to get that place,then going to another place,then going east,it's stupid.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568553339100479489

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## Vergennes

Foinikas said:


> They didn't even know what they wanted to do. It's as if they had no clear target. What's the point of declaring DPR and LPR independent 2 days before you invade the entire country to annex them and grab more land. They sent their men with bad logistics,they fought here and there without having a clear target,retreating here,going there,trying to get that place,then going to another place,then going east,it's stupid.



Russia's main objectives were a "shock" attack and invasion which main goal was to make Ukrainian armed forces collapse to achieve quick victory (which failed),they hoped to rally support of Russian speaking Ukrainians (which failed),a rapid attack on Kyiv to decapitate Zelensky government and quickly install a puppet government (which failed). 

After that they totally got lost,always revising their objectives down coupled with the total incompetence of their armed forces.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568549645327949832
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568509954394316800
> Himars sending its regards




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568552147821764610

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## dBSPL

Foinikas said:


> They didn't even know what they wanted to do. It's as if they had no clear target. What's the point of declaring DPR and LPR independent 2 days before you invade the entire country to annex them and grab more land. They sent their men with bad logistics,they fought here and there without having a clear target,retreating here,going there,trying to get that place,then going to another place,then going east,it's stupid.


The Russian military has a number of problems that it is trying to deal with. However worst of all was the corruption in the command. Putin did not see this until the war began.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568553616469794817

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568493198623875073

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568554572238528512

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## Viet

Ukraine main attack line is seen as northwards. towards Kharkiv, not Cherson, southwards, not expected by the Russians.
If Ukraine army succeed seizing the entire Kharkiv region, the Russian invasion army will be cut off. They will sit like mouse in a trap.
They only have the choice, either flee or surrender.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Foinikas said:


> They didn't even know what they wanted to do. It's as if they had no clear target. What's the point of declaring DPR and LPR independent 2 days before you invade the entire country to annex them and grab more land. They sent their men with bad logistics,they fought here and there without having a clear target,retreating here,going there,trying to get that place,then going to another place,then going east,it's stupid.



Russia wanted Ukraine. But they didn't think ukraine is going to fight back the troops sent to kyiv was issued parade uniform. Most russian think ukrainian will welcome them with open arms for some reason.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568239324537274368

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## [TR]AHMET

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568549645327949832
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568509954394316800
> Himars sending its regards


very devastating effect it is really so effective UAV + Himars. This combinations showed to armies guided artillary with surveillance system like UAV cost effective and game changer.

Turkish army has same concept as well we have used them since last 3 years.

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## dBSPL

Chechens are again the soldiers at the front of the meat grinder.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568528027948138496


----------



## Primus

dBSPL said:


> Chechens are again the soldiers at the front of the meat grinder.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568528027948138496


They should have never joined this war


----------



## jhungary

mulj said:


> North front is probably lost for russians at the moment, UAF made sucessfull bridghead over severnodoneck river, so they will probably conitnue towards border instead to donbas.


They will do both. 

Don't forget, there is still significant troop left behind in Kharkiv from the May Offensive, right now they are sitting at North of Kharkiv doing probably nothing. I am pretty sure they will try to break out Northeast ward after they took Kupiansk.

On the other hand, Donbas front has stalled even before this, I don't see how or what Russia can do except retreating now that their supply line is cut from Belgorod, Ukrainian have to be stupid not to exploit that. If they push now toward Siversky Donets River, they can probably reclaim even pre-war Luchansk.......

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## Vergennes

When Putin asked his army to fully liberate the Donbass by the 15th of september he probably didn't mean this,LMAO.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568560997371191296

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> When Putin asked his army to fully liberate the Donbass by the 15th of september he probably didn't mean this,LMAO.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568560997371191296



Good grief, I didn’t expect Russia to collapse so fast.

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> Good grief, I didn’t expect Russia to collapse so fast.



Ukrainians are advancing on every fronts it seems. Kharkiv,Kherson in the Donbass too.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568562901698371584
No wonder these quick victories will give Ukraine such a needed morale boost. The entire eastern front is collapsing and Russia's best troops are trapped in Kherson. Disaster in the making.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Ukrainians are advancing on every fronts it seems. Kharkiv,Kherson in the Donbass too.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568562901698371584
> No wonder these quick victories will give Ukraine such a needed morale boost. The entire eastern front is collapsing and Russia's best troops are trapped in Kherson. Disaster in the making.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568565785311715331

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568566319854788608
Izyum officially liberated!!!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568568315848581121

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568559546926235650

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568559265463390208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568558950756360192


----------



## Vergennes

As the tide is turning after nearly 7 months of war, let's remember those endless Russian columns crossing into Ukraine,some gave Ukraine a few days (if not hours)....






Many equipments on this video are probably destroyed as of now,many of the soldiers on this video are probably no longer alive

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568574922905059328

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## Elijah Manson

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568554572238528512


In other words, the AFU is advancing on all fronts now.

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## Ali_Baba

Woke up - had my coffee - and logged in to see and hear about the collapse of the Russian "red" Army in the Donbas region.

Totally shocked and suprised of the speed of the collapse - and I welcome that collapse with open arms !!!

This is a Ukranian _Blitzkrieg_ !!!!!!

Shocked at the lack of skill of the Russian Army in organising a defence and or retreating in defence. The Russians took 4months to occupy all the terrority that they lost in 4 days. This further highlights the skill of the Ukranian ability to organise a defensive strategy(!!!) and their desire to defend their homeland in the initial defence of their country against the russian offensives, but now also to combine their resources and their fighting spirit to go on the offensive and reclaim their terrority!

There is passion and spirit to reclaim their terrority is second to none. True warriors.

The Russians have totally destroyed the reputation of the "Red" Army ( lets not kid ourselves - we all saw the flags of the Red Army during the initial stages of this war ). The Russians have also destroyed the reputation of their military-industrial complex aswell. Russian systems will now stagnate further due to lack of purchases from foreign buyers who can see how ineffective they are in war and investment of the Russian goverment due to sanctions.

Turkey will benefit from this was alot as the reputation of their systems have gotten a boost and that will further aid the growth of their defence industry.

The combo of Drones / HIMARS / TB2 / AGM-88 HARM is proving to be lethal !!!!

The no show of the Russian Airforce is _still mindblowing_, and i can only put this down to the ongoing sanctions against Russia, and the inability of Russia to replinsh their airforce due to needing western technology and components ? They cannot sacrifice aircraft that they cannot rebuild?

Also - Ukraine has demonstrated it has better military commanders and strategists than Russia and now that they off their backfoot and "winter is coming", Russia's problems will only magnify with the passage of time from now on.

Ukraine has to reclaim Donbas area and break the physical link between Donbas and Crimea, when that happens, Russia will withdraw from Ukraine as their entire rationale for starting and maintaining the war will be gone. No landbridge, and no Donbas means no point in continuing the war. Ukraine does not need to "evict" all Russia troops to win the war - it just has to undermine those 2 key strategic objectives and the "political logic" for the war for Russia goes out of the window.

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## HorusRa

Vergennes said:


> As the tide is turning after nearly 7 months of war, let's remember those endless Russian columns crossing into Ukraine,some gave Ukraine a few days (if not hours)....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many equipments on this video are probably destroyed as of now,many of the soldiers on this video are probably no longer alive



500 BC - The great wall of China

1400 AD - Walls of Ston, Croatia

1700 AD - Great Ranikort fort, Pakistan

2022 AD - The unfuelled Russian convoy, Ukraine

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568567597314068481

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568581406724333571

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## Han Patriot

sammuel said:


> 9) largest number of hungry mouths to feed.
> 
> ~
> 
> 
> 
> Fiesta ? i see one vehicle , loaded who knows where. I think you need more than one for it to be a " fiesta ".
> 
> Why do you post this nonsense ?
> 
> ~


Which is why we are also the largest producer of fisheries, grain and vegetables. Fruits depending on type.;p



jhungary said:


> US Don't have Parade Uniform. Not since the 60s.
> 
> Parade seldom happens in the US, if they do, they wear Utilities or ACU/OCP except for the passing out, you wear Dress Green/Blue.
> 
> US Military only have 4 types of Uniforms, Dress Uniform, Mess Uniform, PT Uniform and Combat Uniform.








Ok....waht about uniforms not called 'parade uniforms' and used during parades? Lololol. Ooo man, you amaze me everytime.


----------



## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> Which is why we are also the largest producer of fisheries, grain and vegetables. Fruits depending on type.;p
> 
> 
> View attachment 877690
> 
> Ok....waht about uniforms not called 'parade uniforms' and used during parades? Lololol. Ooo man, you amaze me everytime.


Dude, did I already say you wear dress green/blue when you pass out?

And no, Dress Blue is NOT Parade Uniform. Dress blue is what you wear instead of 9 to 5 function or what we called "Barrack Uniform". If you want to talk about Parade Uniform, Full Dress Mess is probably closer than Dress Blue Uniform (Marine called them Blue White). But again, US Military DO NOT have a dedicated Parade Uniform. Blue White official designation is Mess Uniform, you use it for Mess Function, like the Marine Ball as pictured below.














Full dress uniform - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




















I suggest you pick a topic you do understand, unless you claim you served in the US Military, like I did.

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## Viet

Vietnam has established direct seas, rail links to Russia. That will ease Russia over reliance on Beijing.

Win win









Sea, rail transport routes between Vietnam & Russia now linked - Fibre2Fashion


The link between the sea freight passage connecting Vietnam and Russia and a Vladivostok-Moscow rail course has been recently inaugurated. The connection utilises a digital...




www.fibre2fashion.com


----------



## The SC




----------



## sammuel

Ukrainian flag raised in Izyum :







~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568596462870892545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568602652103135232

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## jhungary

sammuel said:


> Ukrainian flag raised in Izyum :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


A telegram channel I was following said 6500 Russian surrendered to the Ukrainian in Izyum.....

Most likely that is an exaggerated number, but that have to be in the thousands........

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## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> Dude, did I already say you wear dress green/blue when you pass out?
> 
> And no, Dress Blue is NOT Parade Uniform. Dress blue is what you wear instead of 9 to 5 function or what we called "Barrack Uniform". If you want to talk about Parade Uniform, Full Dress Mess is probably closer than Dress Blue Uniform (Marine called them Blue White). But again, US Military DO NOT have a dedicated Parade Uniform. Blue White official designation is Mess Uniform, you use it for Mess Function, like the Marine Ball as pictured below.
> 
> View attachment 877697
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full dress uniform - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 877694
> 
> 
> View attachment 877695
> 
> 
> View attachment 877696
> 
> 
> I suggest you pick a topic you do understand, unless you claim you served in the US Military, like I did.


Thats what I said, there are not parade uniforms, just uniforms worn for parade. For gods sake dmbdmb, you think we call our uniforms parade uniforms. When I use that word, of course I was refering to whatever uniforms worn for parades which are not used for battles. You can call them ymca uniforms all I care. Get it genius? You must those retards that can't see the big picture. Hahahha, gosh I give up. First you said oil and gas prices not affected by Ukrainian war then you talk to me about LNG delivered using pipelines. FFS.......


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> A telegram channel I was following said 6500 Russian surrendered to the Ukrainian in Izyum.....
> 
> Most likely that is an exaggerated number, but that have to be in the thousands........



There weren't thousands of Russians in Izium. At best a few hundred tops.


----------



## The SC




----------



## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> Thats what I said, there are not parade uniforms, just uniforms worn for parade. For gods sake dmbdmb, you think we call our uniforms parade uniforms. When I use that word, of course I was refering to whatever uniforms worn for parades which are not used for battles. You can call them ymca uniforms all I care. Get it genius? You must those retards that can't see the big picture. Hahahh


Dude, exactly how stupid were you?

There are 4 types of US Miliary Uniform, *ALL OF THEM CAN BE WEAR IN PARADE*. That's because we don't designated event like that, we choose what uniform to wear according to duty, ceremonial, social functions.

For a VFW Parade, that is duty occasion, it can be either Service Uniform or Utilities or Combat Uniform for that Parade.
For Honor Guard Parade, this is a ceremonial occasion, you wear Dress White/Mess.
For Passing Out/Graduation Parade, you wear Dress Green or Dress Blue.

So when you said this



> I was refering to whatever uniforms worn for parades which are not used for battles



You are dead wrong. Because we wear this in Ukrainian Independence Day Parade in 2018






The same uniform we wore to Battle.

We don't have a designated uniform used for Parade whether or not they were called "Parade Uniform", like the British Number 2 Uniform. We can literally wear any uniform for parade depends on function. That's my point. WE DON'T HAVE A PARADE UNIFORM SINCE 1960s.

*Jesus, how dumb are you to talk about US military uniform when you had not served with US Military, and then you are dumb enough to challenge a person who wear those uniform for a living?? Just tell me how dumb are you to think you can win an argument about US Military Uniform with an US Vet??*

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

This is a war of attrition, and Ukraine has been on a population decline for decades, which accelerated since February. Russians can afford to play the long game. With a population advantage of 4 to 1, 147 million people compared to 36 million people, the balance of power will shift to Russians over the next few years and decades. By 2050 Russians can go on the counter offensive with absolute overwhelming man power advantage of 10 to 1.

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## dBSPL



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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> A telegram channel I was following said 6500 Russian surrendered to the Ukrainian in Izyum.....
> 
> Most likely that is an exaggerated number, but that have to be in the thousands........



Hpefully - numbers are confirmed soon. Which ever way you look at - not good for Russia.


----------



## dBSPL

Severidonetsk 😘






Kharkiv

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Hpefully - numbers are confirmed soon. Which ever way you look at - not good for Russia.


Seeing that was the anchor point for the entire Eastern Zone, it has to be in the thousands.


----------



## dBSPL

Russian Ministry of Defense:

In order to achieve the goals of the special military operation and to increase the efforts in the Donetsk direction, it was decided to regroup the troops in the Balakliya and Izyum districts.

/facepalm/

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## Deliorman

There is no panic in Russian ranks, everything is going according to plan! No losses too...

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## Vergennes

It was of course planned by the Russian MoD,it isn't a debacle,LMAO.

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## dBSPL

September 11, 2022 will be an important day. It also has an esoteric meaning.



Vergennes said:


> It was of course planned by the Russian MoD,it isn't a debacle,LMAO.
> 
> View attachment 877719




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568615332612378626

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568605699222999043

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> It was of course planned by the Russian MoD,it isn't a debacle,LMAO.
> 
> View attachment 877719





Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568605699222999043


Next Russian MOD would be forced to say 

"We are withdrawing from Occupied Ukrainian Territories to save the live of Local Ukrainian"

Because I don't see how this can goes in any way but this.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568605699222999043




The collapse is stunning. I really thought they’d put up a fight by now.

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> The collapse is stunning. I really thought they’d put up a fight by now.


Well, that's a complete Intelligence failure on Russia ends.

You don't just pull a counter offensive like that out of thin air, you need to group your troop, establish a staging area, stockpile ammunition and resource, kind of the stuff our intelligence picked up on what Russian is doing when they say they have no intention to invade Ukraine back in December last year. 

None of that was picked up by Russian intelligence, there are no SIGINT or ELINT warning them they have stuff stacked somewhere. And then the Russian managed to switch from Russian initiative to Ukrainian initative.....that's just bad...

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## dBSPL

BREAKING: The Ukrainian army reached Lycshansk. 50 km in 1 day!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568623034856251398

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## Viet

Thanks to the breakthrough at northeastern front, the territory gains by Ukraine offensive has increased from 386 square miles to 965 square miles.

Ukraine’s Blitzkrieg









Ukraine breaks through front line in east, nearing key town


Western defense officials and analysts on Saturday said they believed Ukraine had punched through Russian front lines south of the country's second-largest city, taking large areas territory.




www.npr.org


----------



## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> Dude, exactly how stupid were you?
> 
> There are 4 types of US Miliary Uniform, *ALL OF THEM CAN BE WEAR IN PARADE*. That's because we don't designated event like that, we choose what uniform to wear according to duty, ceremonial, social functions.
> 
> For a VFW Parade, that is duty occasion, it can be either Service Uniform or Utilities or Combat Uniform for that Parade.
> For Honor Guard Parade, this is a ceremonial occasion, you wear Dress White/Mess.
> For Passing Out/Graduation Parade, you wear Dress Green or Dress Blue.
> 
> So when you said this
> 
> 
> 
> You are dead wrong. Because we wear this in Ukrainian Independence Day Parade in 2018
> 
> View attachment 877717
> 
> 
> The same uniform we wore to Battle.
> 
> We don't have a designated uniform used for Parade whether or not they were called "Parade Uniform", like the British Number 2 Uniform. We can literally wear any uniform for parade depends on function. That's my point. WE DON'T HAVE A PARADE UNIFORM SINCE 1960s.
> 
> *Jesus, how dumb are you to talk about US military uniform when you had not served with US Military, and then you are dumb enough to challenge a person who wear those uniform for a living?? Just tell me how dumb are you to think you can win an argument about US Military Uniform with an US Vet??*


It's amazing you can spew so much crap without answering anything. Do I look I give fck about US uniforms? Lol. Gosh, do you have slight autism spectrum or something? Uniforms used in parades, not necessarily called parade uniforms, and posted a BIG picture of Uniforms used in a parade, I don't give a fck if it's called YMCA uniform. And wtf are you arguing over a uniform ffs? The gist of my argument with another person was about US military presence in Ukraine. Gosh, your EQ is so damn low. You have PTsD brain damage or something Mr Vet trader living in Australia. Lolol

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## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> It's amazing you can spew so much crap without answering anything. Do I look I give fck about US uniforms? Lol. Gosh, do you have slight autism spectrum or something?


Then don't be a smart a$$ and make stupid comment on stuff you have absolutely no idea on.

You just got called on by someone who know their shit, you made stupid comment and got called stupid. Move on and don't' be a dumbarse.

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> You mean those US parade uniforms? Lol


Buddy, the PLA uses its parade uniforms far more than we do. After all, look at all those PLA parade threads you guys created. That picture of the PLA trooper with pins on his neck? That is the most blood the modern PLA shed.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568611847351271424

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, that's a complete Intelligence failure on Russia ends.
> 
> You don't just pull a counter offensive like that out of thin air, you need to group your troop, establish a staging area, stockpile ammunition and resource, kind of the stuff our intelligence picked up on what Russian is doing when they say they have no intention to invade Ukraine back in December last year.
> 
> None of that was picked up by Russian intelligence, there are no SIGINT or ELINT warning them they have stuff stacked somewhere. And then the Russian managed to switch from Russian initiative to Ukrainian initative.....that's just bad...


Putin as commander in chief is busy elsewhere. He is far away. he opens an economic forum in Far East, and stages military exercise with the PLA in the Sea of Japan. He is too delusional.


----------



## sammuel

dBSPL said:


> Russian Ministry of Defense:
> 
> In order to achieve the goals of the special military operation and to increase the efforts in the Donetsk direction, it was decided to regroup the troops in the Balakliya and Izyum districts.
> 
> /facepalm/



Putin does not deserve to be a leader of a super power.

He has been lying to his people and the world for the last 6 months , not to mention dragging the world into this unnecessary war , after two years of corona virus.

Unfortunately , there is no one in Russia that can bring him into account for his crimes.

~

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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> Then don't be a smart a$$ and make stupid comment on stuff you have absolutely no idea on.
> 
> You just got called on by someone who know their shit, you made stupid comment and got called stupid. Move on and don't' be a dumbarse.





gambit said:


> Buddy, the PLA uses its parade uniforms far more than we do. After all, look at all those PLA parade threads you guys created. That picture of the PLA trooper with pins on his neck? That is the most blood the modern PLA shed.



I can't believe there are 3-4 pages of just uniform talk. Thank God you guys didn't go down to underwear, Lol.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin as commander in chief is busy elsewhere. He is far away. he opens an economic forum in Far East, and stages military exercise with the PLA in the Sea of Japan.



lol, no one in the entire administration saw it coming??

I mean, probably it's a different time when I was working in intelligence, I mean, Russia used to be the shit and on par with ours........


----------



## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Buddy, the PLA uses its parade uniforms far more than we do. After all, look at all those PLA parade threads you guys created. That picture of the PLA trooper with pins on his neck? That is the most blood the modern PLA shed.


We don't call it parade uniforms, it's called dragon green chivalry type 002 uniform. Just like your pal Hungary said, you have no idea about our uniforms and he is an. Outfit expert. A Hahahah.


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## Vergennes



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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> I can't believe there are 3-4 pages of just uniform talk. Thank God you guys didn't go down to underwear, Lol.


I don't wear underwear when I was in uniform.........



Han Patriot said:


> We don't call it parade uniforms, it's called dragon green chivalry type 002 uniform. Just like your pal Hungary said, you have no idea about our uniforms and he is an. Outfit expert. A Hahahah.


First of all, stop saying things like you served in the PLA. I am pretty sure you haven't. That's not "Yours" army.

Second, EVERY SOLDIER IS AN EXPERT IN UNIFORM. You are going to do push up to the queue if you don't, I mean, try to show up in an event with the wrong type of uniform or have crease on them, see how your top reacts.. That's why I know you never even spend a day in National Service.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568624061659373568

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## gambit

PakFactor said:


> I can't believe there are 3-4 pages of just uniform talk. Thank God you guys didn't go down to underwear, Lol.


I wear tactical boxer briefs.

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## Han Patriot

PakFactor said:


> I can't believe there are 3-4 pages of just uniform talk. Thank God you guys didn't go down to underwear, Lol.


I was amazed he can post 3 pages. Btw, I would really wnna know what their parade underwear is.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568625267781910528


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> I wear tactical boxer briefs.


Geez, you flyboy......

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## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> Then don't be a smart a$$ and make stupid comment on stuff you have absolutely no idea on.
> 
> You just got called on by someone who know their shit, you made stupid comment and got called stupid. Move on and don't' be a dumbarse.


So what do you call your parade underwear? Lololol.


----------



## dBSPL

sammuel said:


> Putin does not deserve to be a leader of a super power.
> 
> He has been lying to his people and the world for the last 6 months , not to mention dragging the world into this unnecessary war , after two years of corona virus.
> 
> Unfortunately , there is no one in Russia that can bring him into account for his crimes.
> 
> ~


Leaders are the face of the establisment behind them. It is a very comfortable point of view to identify state practices with leaders, I admit, but it is not that simple.

If you ask what is Russia's most fundamental problem, I think the shortest answer is the incompetent and rotten structure that surrounds the leaders in the Kremlin like a shell.

The first three qualities that the cadres who rising the state should have:
1.Merit
2.Merit
3.Merit

If a state loses this quality in its cadres, it cannot use its power effectively.


----------



## Ali_Baba

if Ukraine is that close to Severodonetsk or about to liberate it - then the Russian collapse is of *BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS *...


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> if Ukraine is that close to Severodonetsk or about to liberate it - then the Russian collapse is of *BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS *...



Obviously DPR and LPR are a whole different ball game compared to Kharkov. DPR and LPR are excellent fighters on par with Syrian rebels. Keep in mind Donetsk and Luhansk are the only regions in Ukraine that declared secession from Kiev.


----------



## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> if Ukraine is that close to Severodonetsk or about to liberate it - then the Russian collapse is of *BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS *...


Not really......

Since Russian took Lysychansk and Sieverodonetsk 2 months ago, they made maybe 9 miles inland. They haven't even took Siversky and Bakhmut even today. So Ukrainian troop were always close by.


----------



## Ali_Baba

@Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Where are you - can you share you "brilliance" and reinterpretation of the Russian strategy here .. we are missing something of course..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568625028383576065

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen
> 
> Where are you - can you share you "brilliance" and reinterpretation of the Russian strategy here .. we are missing something of course..



It's a war. You win some. You lose some. So far Ukrainians have not taken a major city of more than 100,000 inhabitants. We shall see 10 years from now what the battle situation is like.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568616989337296897
lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568619634693390338

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568625028383576065


Mercenaries from all over the world are pouring into the territory of Ukraine. From South America, Europe, the Balkans, Africa, the Middle East and even Asia. Both sides use these mercenary militias. Both sides distributes an extraordinary amount of weapons and arsenals, mostly uncontrolled.

This can be a very serious headache for Ukraine in the years to come.


----------



## Wood




----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568591694391644161

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568631043657277442


----------



## dBSPL

Wood said:


>


It is seen that the main-secondary attacks of the Ukrainian army from the Kharkiv and Izyum axis, including deception and diversion, produced results and affected the positions of the Russian army, the will and determination to fight, and forced them to retreat. The Russian army had to retreat in order not to disperse, not to lose force, not to be all front dissolved. If they had not retreated, a terrible loss would have occurred.

There is some success that can be included in the curriculum of the war academies worldwide.

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> We don't call it parade uniforms, it's called dragon green chivalry type 002 uniform. Just like your pal Hungary said, you have no idea about our uniforms and he is an. Outfit expert. A Hahahah.


You can call it anything you want. The bottom line here is that you and your fellow PDF Chinese are clueless about military life in general, let alone something as serious as warfare. You guys treat warfare and soldiering as convenient props for Chinese propaganda never expecting that somewhere along the way, a couple of guys who actually served their country exposed the lot of you for the fools that *ALL* of you really are. Anything from finance to semiconductor, fools you are. So bad that you guys actually tried to gaslight the world on who invented the internet.

PLA = Parade Line Army.

Your China will do nothing to help Russia. Whatever short term gains do not outweigh the probable international cost.







For every meter of Ukrainian land regained, Xi will take one meter away from Poutine. Russia will never be the vassal to China. We all joked about it, but seriously, Russia have too much nuclear weapons to submit to China. Instead, China will begin to mend rifts with the West over this miscalculation. China will attempt to mollify the Asian regional powers, re SKR and JPN, so that they will not increase their defense spending, but China will fail in that theater. An Asian version of NATO is coming. Taiwan maybe just physically 100 miles away, but that virtual distance is increasing and more countries will be looking at some kind of formal relations with Taiwan. This latest news for Russia is not looking good for Xi. He is still politically safe in China, but now as there are calls in Russia to remove Poutine, Xi cannot afford to go down with him.

So save your faces, just leave this Ukraine thread. You cannot help China any more here.

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## dBSPL

Unconfirmed claim: Russian Defense Minister dismissed.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568623406698070016


----------



## dBSPL

BREAKING: Russia has closed its border gate and not accepting fleeing civilians from conflict zones.


----------



## gambit

Am an Air Force guy, so let this be a lesson to anyone wishing to win any war -- look what happened in Ukraine and see how the VKS failed Russia.


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> Unconfirmed claim: Russian Defense Minister dismissed.



Yep - that will help in the middle of a battle... 🤣😆😂


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568642008042065920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568625553305124866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568628787457433600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568641127577751553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568643124880150528

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568596003615379460

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568606514415550466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568622763904061443


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568642847649443841

Lyschansk and Severodonetsk set to be liberated


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> lol, no one in the entire administration saw it coming??
> 
> I mean, probably it's a different time when I was working in intelligence, I mean, Russia used to be the shit and on par with ours........


No, they don’t see it coming because they are confident that would never come. I listened to his speech on the forum, published on YouTube. He read from the script, he spent most of the speech to insult the West, and painted a wonderful picture of Russia.

“Russia has not lost anything”.

- Vladimir Putin


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568643958074392577

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568649772369645568

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## monitor



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568650288961052672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568650445710839808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568651110277345280

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## mulj

It is really big question if the russians be able to defend other regions including Crimea, UAF now has 1mil strong army with high morale and battle hardened spearheads supported with bundless equipment emphasizing fact superior one to the russian equivalents.
Right now russia is on the ropes as merely relevant military and world power, i am keen to see if this disaster will change something in their overall approach to the internal policy, economy, industry and military, their system is disfunctional to the core which was known fact for long time but we now have major public demonstration.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568650372864004096

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## jhungary

mulj said:


> It is really big question if the russians be able to defend other regions including Crimea, UAF now has 1mil strong army with high morale and battle hardened spearheads supported with bundless equipment emphasizing fact superior one to the russian equivalents.
> Right now russia is on the ropes as merely relevant military and world power, i am keen to see if this disaster will change something in their overall approach to the internal policy, economy, industry and military, their system is disfunctional to the core which was known fact for long time but we now have major public demonstration.


AFU is not 1 mil strong, in fact the 2 counter offensive was pulled off with 3 Battlegroup (about 40000 soldiers) only. 

Russia simply have failed in controlling the situation, and now they are paying for it. Russia lose the momentum and I really don't see how they can get it back without putting a lot more troop in.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568635055697960961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568644104724090881

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## fallschirmjager786

Where's all the pro Russian posters. Al Somali etc. Epic Russian collapse.

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## Viet

mulj said:


> It is really big question if the russians be able to defend other regions including Crimea, UAF now has 1mil strong army with high morale and battle hardened spearheads supported with bundless equipment emphasizing fact superior one to the russian equivalents.
> Right now russia is on the ropes as merely relevant military and world power, i am keen to see if this disaster will change something in their overall approach to the internal policy, economy, industry and military, their system is disfunctional to the core which was known fact for long time but we now have major public demonstration.


No, the russians can’t defend Donbas, Crimea by conventional means. That’s why Putin and his coyotes Peskow, Medvedew, state media threaten nuclear war against Ukraine, against the Nato on the first day of invasion of Ukraine.

No, as long as Putin is in power that won’t change anything. Neither Russia domestic politics nor relation to the West. Putin will push on his oppressive internal politics and aggressive foreign policy.


----------



## Vergennes

Overdose of copium


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568620410316673024

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## mulj

jhungary said:


> AFU is not 1 mil strong, in fact the 2 counter offensive was pulled off with 3 Battlegroup (about 40000 soldiers) only.
> 
> Russia simply have failed in controlling the situation, and now they are paying for it. Russia lose the momentum and I really don't see how they can get it back without putting a lot more troop in.


They have 1mil under arms overall, sure that number of shock and assault capable troops is much smaller as in all armies but man power is important to posses front lines and free better equiped and trained troops for complex tasks of breaking enemy lines, that was my context of that 1mil army figure

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## SIPRA

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Where's all the pro Russian posters. Al Somali etc. Epic Russian collapse.



They are presently relaxing, like the Russian forces.

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## Ali_Baba

"Russia lets slip it has lost more land than officially confirmed"​
😂 ..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568599564814553089


----------



## mulj

Frenkly russians had their chance in this constelation but their over ambitious goals and number of troops commited for it was huge blunder.
In first month they could take without to much difficulfies donbas and zaporozje region but they fought stupid battles around biggest population centers in ukraina, dnepar river bank was achievable.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568656117475188736


mulj said:


> Frenkly russians had their chance in this constelation but their over ambitious goals and number of troops commited for it was huge blunder.
> In first month they could take without to much difficulfies donbas and zaporozje region but they fought stupid battles around biggest population centers in ukraina, dnepar river bank was achievable.



Their invasion was doomed from the start,they bet on a quick collapse of Ukrainian armed forces and the Ukrainian population (at least Russian speakers) to rally for their cause.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568658152714911746
More Russian tanks captured

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## Reashot Xigwin

Three funniest words in the english dictionary: 

Russian Armed Forces

I used to joke that NATO B-lister like Poland, Turkey & Italy can beat Russia Alone but now even C-lister like Romania & Croatia can beat Russia it seems.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568650829288071169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568651116392456193


Reashot Xigwin said:


> Three funniest words in the english dictionary:
> 
> Russian Armed Forces
> 
> I used to joke that NATO B-lister like Poland, Turkey & Italy can beat Russia Alone but now even C-lister like Romania & Croatia can beat Russia it seems.



Russia is not military strong country. Japan beat Russia in 1905. Napoleon and Hitler both burned Moscow. Brits kicked Russian arse in Crimean war.

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## khansaheeb

Russian military collapse has started:-









Ukraine troops raise flag over railway hub as advance threatens to turn into rout


The Ukrainian advance threatens to encircle thousands of Russian troops in Izium, the main Russian stronghold and logistics base in the northeast sector of the front.



www.dawn.com




Ukraine troops raise flag over railway hub as advance threatens to turn into rout​Reuters Published September 10, 2022 Updated about 8 hours ago














3





A tank of Ukrainian Army advances to the fronts in the northeastern areas of Kharkiv, Ukraine on September 08, 2022. — Andalou Agency
1x1.2x1.5x
Ukrainian officials shared photos on Saturday showing troops raising the nation’s flag over the main railway city that has supplied Russian forces in northeastern Ukraine, as a collapse in Russia’s frontline threatened to turn into a rout.
A _Reuters_ journalist inside a vast area recaptured in recent days by the advancing Ukrainian forces saw Ukrainian police patrolling towns and boxes of ammunition lying in heaps at positions abandoned by fleeing Russian soldiers.
With Ukrainians now having reached the city of Kupiansk, where rail lines linking Russia to eastern Ukraine converge, the advance had penetrated all the way to Moscow’s main logistics route, potentially trapping thousands of Russian troops.
Natalia Popova, adviser to the head of the Kharkiv regional council, shared photos on Facebook of troops holding up a Ukrainian flag in front of Kupiansk city hall. A Russian flag lay at their feet. “Kupiansk is Ukraine. Glory to the armed forces of Ukraine,” she wrote.
ADVERTISING






















×

In Hrakove, one of dozens of recaptured villages, _Reuters_ journalists saw burnt out vehicles bearing the “Z” symbol of Russia’s invasion, and piles of rubbish and ammunition in positions the Russians had abandoned in evident haste.
“Hello everyone, we are from Russia,” was spray painted on a wall.
Three bodies lay in white body bags in a yard.
The regional chief of police, Volodymyr Tymoshenko, said Ukrainian police had moved in the previous day, and had checked the identities of local residents who had lived under Russian occupation since the invasion’s second day.
“The first function is to provide help that they need. The next job is to document the crimes committed by Russian invaders on the territories which they temporarily occupied.”
The capture of at least part of Kupiansk, if confirmed, potentially leaves thousands of Russian soldiers trapped at the frontline and cut off from supplies. _Reuters_ could not independently verify the situation in the city.
Ukraine has seized a huge swathe of territory in the east in recent days in its fastest advance since it defeated the Russian assault on the capital Kyiv in March.
In an overnight video address, President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said at least 30 settlements had been liberated in Kharkiv region.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568656458857717760

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## Mista

Vergennes said:


> Overdose of copium
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568620410316673024




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568570274685112320

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## mulj

Vergennes said:


> Their invasion was doomed from the start,they bet on a quick collapse of Ukrainian armed forces and the Ukrainian population (at least Russian speakers) to rally for their cause.


not really, i remember very well how uaf could not oppose russian columns but chosen directions were idiotic because false assumptions.
In first month russians could easly go along dnepar river after kherson, uaf was not ready to oppose that both with man power and equipment.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568639244503060482

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568670360375296001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568670870368829441

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## The SC

Very interesting analysis:

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## Viet

Russia’s biggest gamble 
Shutting down north stream 1.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568675464163770369

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568667335032016897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568655165799940101

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568603748351500289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568603756668850176

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568675050097905665

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## -=virus=-

Superboy !!! that's the one.. haha


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568591590385684482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568575179227267077


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568684665858572291

You can’t be serious 



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568684665858572291
> 
> You can’t be serious


Seems to be a video from Crimea

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## A.P. Richelieu

dBSPL said:


> Russian Ministry of Defense:
> 
> In order to achieve the goals of the special military operation and to increase the efforts in the Donetsk direction, it was decided to regroup the troops in the Balakliya and Izyum districts.
> 
> /facepalm/


They learned from their idols.






Frontbegradigung – Wikipedia







de.wikipedia.org





*Translated:*

Front straightening is both a military or military-historical term and an example of euphemism in the propaganda language of the Third Reich in World War II. In the literal sense, front straightening (or synonymously front shortening) means the elimination of bulges and zigzag courses of the war front between two states in the state of war.

Front straightening was carried out more often, especially in the First World War. This war was marked, especially on the Western Front, by position and trench fighting, solidified fronts over a long time and offensives stuck in the opposing defense system. A front straightening could be achieved both by a new offensive, which made the connection of the resting neighboring positions to the advanced front section, as well as through a tactical retreat. A front straightening shortened the length of the front and thus freed troops for other tasks, but also for the opponent. The most extensive front straightening of the First World War took place in 1917 on the direction of the German Supreme Army Command (OHL) on the Western Front. A few months after the Allied offensive on the Somme, which had left a zigzag-like and confusing frontline - without opposing pressure - withdrew to the so-called victory peace position in Alberich. This expanded front line was much shorter and could be better defended. This front straightening had not only tactical, but also strategic importance.

During World War II, "front straightening" took on a slightly different meaning. *The term became - especially in the second half of the war - a euphemism for an opponent-forced withdrawal of German troops.* On the part of the Wehrmacht leadership, Nazi propaganda, the Deutsche Wochenschau and the other media, the catastrophic situation of the German Wehrmacht and the associated withdrawal or Collapse on all fronts with terms such as "planned set-off movement", "front shortening" or even "front straightening" trivialized or obfuscated. Since the actual situation could not be concealed by the population with the increasing duration of the war, the term "front straightening" was usually used popularly in a mocking or ironic way and the official propaganda thus reversed in its intention.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568681705342664706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568683879405441024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568681329432363009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568680705143742464


----------



## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568684665858572291
> 
> You can’t be serious
> 
> 
> Seems to be a video from Crimea


….what the ****…

With himars threat it seems weird to have such a depot/gathering. Are these all the heavy weapons that they couldnt cross the bridges anymore and abandoned??


Oh and for all the russian fanboys…now thats ghanima….
Soon the ukranian army will have more tanks/bmps/artillery then the start of the offensive….

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## F-22Raptor

ZeGerman said:


> ….what the ****…
> 
> With himars threat it seems weird to have such a depot/gathering. Are these all the heavy weapons that they couldnt cross the bridges anymore and abandoned??
> 
> 
> Oh and for all the russian fanboys…now thats ghanima….
> Soon the ukranian army will have more tanks/bmps/artillery then the start of the offensive….



It’s a video from Crimea, but Russian losses are still enormous

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568680705143742464



Damn. These choppers are brutal. Can't wait to see Mi-28NM and Ka-52M in action come next year.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568687458438578176

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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568598243289726976
lmao

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## Reashot Xigwin

Well it seems the Ukrainian is entering Lysechaensk and close to severodonetsk river. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568676426811076611


ZeGerman said:


> ….what the ****…
> 
> With himars threat it seems weird to have such a depot/gathering. Are these all the heavy weapons that they couldnt cross the bridges anymore and abandoned??
> 
> 
> Oh and for all the russian fanboys…now thats ghanima….
> Soon the ukranian army will have more tanks/bmps/artillery then the start of the offensive….



Russian logistic are not as flexible as western one they stockpiled ungodly amount of supplies & ammo usually near their railroad. This makes them extremely vulnerable to precision strike.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568692680162672641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568692224463880192


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568695390635196417

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568691899158122496


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568694678840811520


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568681705342664706


----------



## Viet

Welcome to Kupkansk
Russia officially withdrew from Kharkiv. Witali Gantschew, the chief of Kharkiv, installed by Moscow called all citizens to leave. The battle is over.







Ukrainische Soldaten posierten für ein Foto in Kupkansk. Bild: via REUTERS





Bild vergrößern
Vorrückende ukrainische Truppen im Gebiet Charkiw

Foto:
IMAGO/David Ryder / IMAGO/ZUMA Wire

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568697611397533696

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3


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568701448644427777

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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568677303089090561
me IRL

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568701609982689282

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568606562918494211

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568606562918494211



HIMARS is good, but compared to Tornado-S it's just garbage in terms of range and fire power.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568705706206846976

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568676960947310592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568708334013890561

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## khansaheeb

HorusRa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568677303089090561
> me IRL


2 hr 34 min ago
Mayor of Izium: City "liberated" from Russians​From CNN's Mariya Knight and Tim Lister

The mayor of Izium in Kharkiv region, Vladimir 








Live updates: Russia's war in Ukraine


Ukrainian forces have entered the strategic city of Izium after forcing Russian troops to retreat, an officer involved in the operation told CNN. Follow news updates here.




www.cnn.com





Matsokin, has said in a radio interview the city has been liberated.


> Matsokin told a Ukrainian radio station: "Our Armed Forces of Ukraine are in Izium. It cannot be said that the military operation to liberate Izium is over, but our military is working."


Matsokin said above the city on the Kremenets mountain "our blue-and-yellow flag is already fluttering. This has been confirmed."
"This is a real holiday — the Liberation Day of our city," Matsokin added. "Sept. 10 is the day of the liberation of Izium from Russian invaders."
CNN earlier Saturday reported that according to Ukrainian military officers involved in the operation, the first units had entered Izium. There are no reports of Russian resistance; it appears most Russian units had already left the city.
Ukrainian soldiers have posted several videos and images of their presence at the entrances to the city.






4 hr 58 min ago
Ukrainian official says Russian troops' "main artery" through Kharkiv region is severed​From CNN's Julia Kesaieva and Tim Lister

A senior Ukrainian official said that the "main artery" for Russian forces through Kharkiv region has been severed.
Yurii Mysiagin, a Ukrainian member of Parliament and deputy head of the parliament's committee on national security, said on Telegram that a "few days ago, military experts said that the Armed Forces of Ukraine were trying to take the main logistical artery of the Russians in the Kharkiv region under full fire control."
He said that artery ran from Vovchansk in the north, close to the Russian border, down to Izium, on the border of Donetsk region — a distance of some 125 kilometers (approximately 77 miles).


> "And today our fighters succeeded," Mysiagin said. "Now there is only one way out for the occupiers — to leave this area, flee, retreat."







5 hr 1 min ago
Ukrainian forces appear to be moving toward city of Lysychansk in Luhansk region​From CNN's Tim Lister, Vasco Cotovio and Julia Kesaieva

Ukrainian forces appear to have opened a new front against Russian defenses on the border of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
The head of the regional military administration for Luhansk, Serhiy Hayday, posted a message indicating that the city of Lysychansk was the target of the new offensive. 
The city was lost to Russian forces and their allied militia after weeks of fierce fighting in June.


> Hayday posted: "Lysychansk, a great Ukrainian city. There will be a lot of reconstruction work."


Hayday later told Ukrainian media outlets Suspilne and Channel 5 that Ukrainian units had reached the outskirts of the city of Lysychansk.
CNN is unable to confirm his claim.
Lysychansk was the last city of any consequence to have been captured by the Russians, but they subsequently failed to make further advances into the neighboring Donetsk region.
The reported Ukrainian advance toward Lysychansk comes as Ukrainian ground forces complete a sweep through much of what was Russian-held territory in Kharkiv region, depriving the Russians of a critical front in their attack on Donetsk region.
In another sign of Ukrainian advances, the head of the so-called Donetsk People's Republic, Denis Pushilin, admitted that the situation in northern Donetsk had become "pretty tough." 


> Pushilin said on his Telegram channel that in the town of Lyman, not far from the Ukrainian-held city of Sloviansk, that "the situation is pretty tough, just like in a number of settlements in the North of the Republic."
> "However, I'm in touch with the local administrations, with emergency services and with our units. There is more information but I can not reveal it for now, as it might harm our units," he said.


Hayday said that locals in the city of Lysychansk have reported the hasty departure of Russian officials from the city.
Speaking to CNN by phone, Hayday said that according to residents, "the occupiers, including both the collaborators and the military, are running away in a hurry."
"Locals have videos and photos proving that," Hayday said. He said the visual evidence could not be shared for security reasons.
Hayday also suggested that there was an exodus of pro-Russian officials and collaborators in Luhansk toward Russia. "Those from Svatove, Starobilsk, Novopskov are trying to leave, not to Luhansk, but to the border with Russia at Milove."
CNN is unable to verify Hayday's claim, but at least one border crossing into Russia has seen lines of vehicles forming. 
Hayday also told CNN that the Russians had failed to build a defensive line in Luhansk. "Svatove, Starobilsk — this is an open rural countryside, so there's nowhere to hide."
He claimed Russian forces were leaving the town of Svatove. If true, it would be significant as Svatove is a key link in Russian supply lines to parts of occupied Luhansk region.
Hayday also confirmed to CNN that "partisans" had raised the Ukrainian flag in the town of Kreminna, north of Lysychansk.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568677853860085761


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568684239587082240Morales are high. Next stop is Belgorod.

Ukrainian army vehicle following the track of Russian tanks.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568625729067261954


dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568684239587082240Morales are high. Next stop is Belgorod.
> 
> Ukrainian army vehicle following the track of Russian tanks.



So far they haven't been able to invade DPR and LPR let alone Russia.


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568683879405441024


Exactly whats the point of this pompous presentation of less than a manoeuvre brigade. Even if they somehow reach Ukraine, theyd just end up joining the so called russian regrouping.
Cant wait to see the good people on this forum posting news about Ukraine forcing the russians and its mercenaries regroup out of eastern Ukraine. Fact is only the Wagner group is making small gains in the east, and airborne units keeping the defence in Kherson from total breakdown.
Russia is done in Ukraine. Someone just need to tell them

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## F-22Raptor

MeFishToo said:


> Exactly whats the point of this pompous presentation of less than a manoeuvre brigade. Even if they somehow reach Ukraine, theyd just end up joining the so called russian regrouping.
> Can wait to see the good people on this forum posting news about Ukraine forcing the russians and its mercenaries regroup out of eastern Ukraine. Fact is only the Wagner group is making small gains in the east, and airborne units keeping the defence in Kherson from total breakdown.
> Russia is done in Ukraine. Someone just need to tell them



It’s all downhill from here for Russia. Not sure why anyone would expect anything different at this point.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

jhungary said:


> AFU is not 1 mil strong, in fact the 2 counter offensive was pulled off with 3 Battlegroup (about 40000 soldiers) only.
> 
> Russia simply have failed in controlling the situation, and now they are paying for it. Russia lose the momentum and I really don't see how they can get it back without putting a lot more troop in.



Ukranians are patriotic than Russians.

Ukranians are dying for their country while Russians are abondoning their positions.

As I said Ukraine will capture moscow before the winter sets in.

Russia will lose this war and balkanized.

China will get Eastern Russia as part of the deal.

No leader or country who challeged the Dollar has survived

Not Saddam, Not Gaddafi and Not Putin


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568715978086948870

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568717017615826944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568718217908219905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568718601393422336

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568717017938526216
Another awful day for Russia with 70 losses. That’s now 5,700 total for the war.

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## The SC




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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568716765764456448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568717246813306880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568719247735390208

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568724999447670784
Kadyrov is a clown

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## FuturePAF

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Indians already shivering...
> 
> 
> 
> 16 Himars are more than enough for Russia. Need 300 for China.


India maybe buying a large number of Himars soon, but the Himalayas cut both ways and can India win in a war or attrition against China when China could just produce more and fly them to the frontlines around the clock. 








F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568724999447670784
> Kadyrov is a clown


The US should have recognized the Chechen Republic under Aslan Maskhadov after the first Chechen war in the early 90s, it would have gained another ally like Kosovo.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568357688396095488
> 
> 
> Wrong. This is the first war that lasts forever.


How many brain cells do you have? 
You just repeat the same garbage page after page

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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Exactly whats the point of this pompous presentation of less than a manoeuvre brigade. Even if they somehow reach Ukraine, theyd just end up joining the so called russian regrouping.
> Cant wait to see the good people on this forum posting news about Ukraine forcing the russians and its mercenaries regroup out of eastern Ukraine. Fact is only the Wagner group is making small gains in the east, and airborne units keeping the defence in Kherson from total breakdown.
> Russia is done in Ukraine. Someone just need to tell them


I understand one thing though.. Russia is committing 150K troops against 350k Ukrainian troops..


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568699996694003712

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568701282214641666

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## PakAlp

Time to accept Russia lost the war in Ukraine. It has been disaster from the beginning till the end. 









Russia orders troops to withdraw from front line positions after shock Ukrainian advance


Ukrainian forces, backed by increasingly powerful Western weapons, have captured hundreds of square miles of territory from Russian control in the past four days across the Kharkiv region, as the Russian line collapsed.




news.sky.com

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## jhungary

mulj said:


> They have 1mil under arms overall, sure that number of shock and assault capable troops is much smaller as in all armies but man power is important to posses front lines and free better equiped and trained troops for complex tasks of breaking enemy lines, that was my context of that 1mil army figure



Well, if your context is 1 million men under armed, yes, there are going to be 1 million plus organised and unorganised resistance if you also counted local militia, police and basically everyone in Ukraine with a gun.

The Armed Force number is a lot less, maybe 600,000 to 700,000k trained troop. They started this war with 214,000 reported Military Strength, even tho if we put 100,000 trained and equipped every month (Which is almost impossible to do) they would have 800,000k top, then you will also need to take out the dead and wounded fighting this war..


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## F-22Raptor

What happened to Hassan?

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## aviator_fan

Corax said:


> The Ukrainian offensive will stall for the same reasons as the Russian advance - dilution of forces in the theatre and the stretching of supply lines. The few gains the Ukis have made could be reversed, as it's unlikely they'll be able to hold ground, they simply don't have the weight in numbers. The front lines are likely to change backwards and forwards between both sides, as it looks like a stalemate to a large degree, with both sides not having the weight and capabilities to achieve their respective objectives. What's interesting from the Russian side is the re-emergence of the O forces, they've been largely absent since Feb/March, and perhaps held back in reserve, while the V forces have done much of the work.


This could go in any direction. But like any asymmetric warfare, a weaker power can make a few gains and look like heroes. A superpower that doesn't meet its original objective looks weak regardless of what few gains from Ukraine they reverse



TNT said:


> Chinese surveillance and intelligence capabilities are way ahead of russia and almost at par with US. They have huge number of observing satellites, coupled with AI enabled systems. The only reason Ukraine is inflicting damage on Russia is the accurate US intelligence on russian positions and ammo storages.


They may have comparable intelligence sensors, but more for use in surrounding region. Not project it that far out. And if they could, what were they waiting for? How bad do they want things for Russia to come through with it.

Russia's state craft history is at least as good as China's if not better. But if your battle doctrine is wrong, then not all the intel is going to help.



The SC said:


> I understand one thing though.. Russia is committing 150K troops against 350k Ukrainian troops..


If they didn't have the troops why did they go in? Or do they get a pass for not having enough troops. Attacking army is always going to be larger. There is no rocket science here.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> HIMARS is good, but compared to Tornado-S it's just garbage in terms of range and fire power.


And the Russians are holding off on Tornado-S till when? Till they really need it? Now was the time to need it. Please get off the high horse and coming up with random baseless facts. And so what even if its superior , its not having an impact in this battle.

Or are you a sales person for Tornado-S and promoting its advantages. If so , this is a free forum (unlike ability to speak freely in China) and start a new thread on Torndao vs. HIMARS. This thread is about Ukraine war with Russia



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It's a war. You win some. You lose some. So far Ukrainians have not taken a major city of more than 100,000 inhabitants. We shall see 10 years from now what the battle situation is like.


10 years? What sort of stamina do you think Russia has? 

China wasn't able to fight a measly Vietnam (devestated from years of destruction by the US) for more than a month. 

USSR (when it was a superpower) was able to barely hold on to Afghanistan for 10 years.

You really need to look at the past before coming up with your typical 'forever war' scenario.

Pls North Koreans send them more of your AK-47s and artillery shells since this poster thinks this will last 10 years.

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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> You can call it anything you want. The bottom line here is that you and your fellow PDF Chinese are clueless about military life in general, let alone something as serious as warfare. You guys treat warfare and soldiering as convenient props for Chinese propaganda never expecting that somewhere along the way, a couple of guys who actually served their country exposed the lot of you for the fools that *ALL* of you really are. Anything from finance to semiconductor, fools you are. So bad that you guys actually tried to gaslight the world on who invented the internet.
> 
> PLA = Parade Line Army.
> 
> Your China will do nothing to help Russia. Whatever short term gains do not outweigh the probable international cost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For every meter of Ukrainian land regained, Xi will take one meter away from Poutine. Russia will never be the vassal to China. We all joked about it, but seriously, Russia have too much nuclear weapons to submit to China. Instead, China will begin to mend rifts with the West over this miscalculation. China will attempt to mollify the Asian regional powers, re SKR and JPN, so that they will not increase their defense spending, but China will fail in that theater. An Asian version of NATO is coming. Taiwan maybe just physically 100 miles away, but that virtual distance is increasing and more countries will be looking at some kind of formal relations with Taiwan. This latest news for Russia is not looking good for Xi. He is still politically safe in China, but now as there are calls in Russia to remove Poutine, Xi cannot afford to go down with him.
> 
> So save your faces, just leave this Ukraine thread. You cannot help China any more here.


Exactly, you don't give a fck what my uniform is called, I actually also don't give a fck on what you call yours. But your cheerleadinh woke strawberry thinks it's cute posting 3 pages of crap on uniforms. Lolololol and you posting half a page of bullshit again. Gosh.


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> This is a war of attrition, and Ukraine has been on a population decline for decades, which accelerated since February. Russians can afford to play the long game. With a population advantage of 4 to 1, 147 million people compared to 36 million people, the balance of power will shift to Russians over the next few years and decades. By 2050 Russians can go on the counter offensive with absolute overwhelming man power advantage of 10 to 1.


This is the wishful thinking you have based on rationale of Taiwan. Taiwan that you consider to be a small portion of the population is the reason China even has a semi conductor industry. Or you would still be working on paper/pencils. Russia's population is also in decline and their BIG population advantage didn't really help their numerical superiority when they started in Feb but somehow in your world, this will play out better later after their humiliation. Good one.



Elvin said:


> Where are all of these Russian bots and paid spammers who have had a hard on for Russia the last few months?


I wonder too. I am keen to see who the Russia's are advertising this victory (Moscow Bob borrowing from Baghdad Bob).

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## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> This is the wishful thinking you have based on rationale of Taiwan. Taiwan that you consider to be a small portion of the population is the reason China even has a semi conductor industry. Or you would still be working on paper/pencils. Russia's population is also in decline and their BIG population advantage didn't really help their numerical superiority when they started in Feb but somehow in your world, this will play out better later after their humiliation. Good one.


Whats wrong with my patriotic Han brethren helping the motherland? You do know alot of Taiwanese are actually ethnic Han right. Technically, we must thank the US for inventing semiconductors not Taiwan. I dont see Indians working with pencils despite having no semiconductors matey. You csn import them right? Lololol. If it weren't fir China's invention of money money and paper, you would still be using clay.

Taiwan is in a significantly more dangerous situation than Ukraine, we are talking about the largest country in Europe after Russia. Taiwan is pretty tiny and isolated.


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## RoadAmerica

Wesen Hunter said:


> Russia needs to announce a Total war against Ukraine and announce mass mobilization and shift economy into war mode.
> Aim should be to take entire Ukraine.


Good luck with that


----------



## aviator_fan

The SC said:


> US Federal reserve bank: economic slowdown is coming with certainty.. and US families will suffer..
> 
> Russian prime minister: Oil and Gas revenues of Russia up 50% despite the western sanctions..
> 
> Russian finance ministry: The Chinese Yuan, the UAE Dirham and a few other currencies will replace the poisoned Dollar and Euro.. that Russia doesn't need anymore..


Car sales are at same level as 2021 with very little spare inventory. Airlines are full. And home prices high. 

And yes lets believe the Russian finance ministry because they speak openly. THey are worried about themselves being dismissed. Just like today's battle was in the making, so is the plan for the debacle of Russia's economy. This money is not making it to the average person either. Its ending up with Putin and his buddies. GDP is down 4%: why is that if revenues are up 50%?

Nobody here can predict it how it turns out for the economy, we are all guessing. But at least look at the overall picture and all facts, not just the ones that make you feel good because Russia is gain on the run and you are disappointed about that


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Even the chinese think the rusky are shitnow. Good luck fighting the west together. LOL


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568679341474861056

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Yup China has no resources at all matey, and those desperate old ladies in Germany burning wood from park benches, they aren't affected at all. Lolololol. I bet you don't see our world class infrastructure, where do you think we invest our money?
> 
> 1) words largest expressway system
> 2) largest high speed rail
> 3) largest port system
> 4) largest uhv transmission
> 5) largest Hydro electric system
> 6) largest wind power system
> 7) largest solar system
> 8) largest mass transit system.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup ITS ALL. IN PROPERTIES. LOL


Nobody is disputing what China has in resources. China has come a long way in 25 years and I am not taking away from that.

What I have issue with you and your compatriots claiming China is a set of superhumans or something and somehow with this super human power is going to use its resources to help the Russians. 

Xi is not stupid enough to do that regardless of what you are thinking. How would any of the above help Russia.

And don't use childish language like LOLLOLL on a global defence forum. It makes you look pathetic and takes away from the important facts that you are stating


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> This is the wishful thinking you have based on rationale of Taiwan. Taiwan that you consider to be a small portion of the population is the reason China even has a semi conductor industry. Or you would still be working on paper/pencils. Russia's population is also in decline and their BIG population advantage didn't really help their numerical superiority when they started in Feb but somehow in your world, this will play out better later after their humiliation. Good one.



Russia's population is declining slower than Ukraine's population decline. Besides, Chinese immigration is boosting Russia's population. By 2050 Russia's population increase to more than 150 million and Ukraine's population decline to less than 30 million. By 2050 the war is still going on and Russia has more than 5 to 1 advantage in man power compared to Ukraine.


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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> This is a war of attrition, and Ukraine has been on a population decline for decades, which accelerated since February. Russians can afford to play the long game. With a population advantage of 4 to 1, 147 million people compared to 36 million people, the balance of power will shift to Russians over the next few years and decades. By 2050 Russians can go on the counter offensive with absolute overwhelming man power advantage of 10 to 1.


Same crap, go away

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia's population is declining slower than Ukraine's population decline. Besides, Chinese immigration is boosting Russia's population. By 2050 Russia will be a Chinese majority country. By 2050 Russia's population increase to more than 150 million and Ukraine's population decline to less than 30 million. By 2050 the war is still going on and Russia has more than 5 to 1 advantage in man power compared to Ukraine.


Blind man leading the deaf. China itself is on a worse decline, and with 20 million fewer women anticipated then men (I hope you nad your friends have secured your women in this generation). So the few people that China will have, you think they will move to Russia. This is a brilliant strategy. Are you going to force them to move like you have done to the muslims in western china by 're-educating' them.

Please don't come with these, as they really humiliate the greatness of China has and stands for when you write this. Even an Indian could not dream up the sort of things you come up with if they wanted to embarass China.

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## Foinikas

Stop bickering like idiots. One side rubbing hands because they hate Russia and the other laughing because they hate the West. This war is unfortunate,two brother countries are fighting and warhawks from USA to China threaten and flex. 

Enough. Talk about the war and the war only. Don't mock each side and each other. If you don't like Putin,suck it up and behave. If you don't like NATO,eat some noodles and relax. Talk about the battles and the tactics without insulting and flaming others.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Blind man leading the deaf. China itself is on a worse decline, and with 20 million fewer women anticipated then men (I hope you nad your friends have secured your women in this generation). So the few people that China will have, you think they will move to Russia. This is a brilliant strategy. Are you going to force them to move like you have done to the muslims in western china by 're-educating' them.
> 
> Please don't come with these, as they really humiliate the greatness of China has and stands for when you write this. Even an Indian could not dream up the sort of things you come up with if they wanted to embarass China.



Chinese single men are emigrating to Russia en mass. Humans have more men than women. There are 105 males born for every 100 females. Single men are used up in war. This is the biological nature of the human species.

Do you know why there are 105 males born for every 100 females? Because humans are bred for war. War is human nature. Do not deny your nature.


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## MultaniGuy

As a Pakistani Muslim I could not care about this conflict.

Let the Europeans fight it out amongst themselves.

Now it is our turn to say that.

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568650829288071169
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568651116392456193
> 
> 
> Russia is not military strong country. Japan beat Russia in 1905. Napoleon and Hitler both burned Moscow. Brits kicked Russian arse in Crimean war.


Wow you sure did a 180 there

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## Hamartia Antidote

MultaniGuy said:


> As a Pakistani Muslim I could not care about this conflict.
> 
> Let the Europeans fight it out amongst themselves.
> 
> Now it is our turn to say that.



I'm glad you see the Russians as Europeans. Seems other Asians say they are Asians even though 75%+ of the population is in Europe while 77%+ of their land area is in Asia.

I think that should be a hint of where their people's allegiance will be in the future if push comes to shove.






Population density







Europe/Asia line


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Wow you sure did a 180 there



I never said Russia is military strong country. I've always said Russia is military weak country.



Hamartia Antidote said:


> I'm glad you see the Russians as Europeans. Seems other Asians say they are Asians.



Russians have both Europeans and Asians. It is multi cultural and multi religious. There are Buddhists in Russia.

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Damn. These choppers are brutal. Can't wait to see Mi-28NM and Ka-52M in action come next year.


Lol, next year the bear will be headless


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## Hamartia Antidote

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians have both Europeans and Asians. It is multi cultural and multi religious. There are Buddhists in Russia.



Looking at the maps posted...uh..huh.

Hey the US has Eskimos too. Unfortunately most of the population lives in the 48.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I'm glad you see the Russians as Europeans. Seems other Asians say they are Asians even though 75%+ of the population is in Europe while 77%+ of their land area is in Asia.
> 
> I think that should be a hint of where their people's allegiance will be in the future if push comes to shove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Population density
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe/Asia line



There is no naturally defined line between Europe and Asia. You know, you can just drive your car between Vladivostok and Moscow.



RoadAmerica said:


> Lol, next year the bear will be headless



Oh come on already. You know this war is forever. It is the first forever war.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> here is no naturally defined line between Europe and Asia. You know, you can just drive your car between Vladivostok and Moscow.



Anything east of Ural mountains belongs to China.


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## A.P. Richelieu

F-22Raptor said:


> What happened to Hassan?



Many other social media accounts suddenly went off the air.
They were of course located inside Ukraine.
Perhaps he forgot to update his flag.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Anything east of Ural mountains belongs to China.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 877819



Chinese are not warmongers. The only lands Chinese claim are Taiwan and possibly Senkaku.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese are not warmongers. The only lands Chinese claim are Taiwan and possibly Senkaku.


India, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia Joins the chat

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> India, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia Joins the chat



China has never invaded another country. And neither has Russia.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China has never invaded another country. And neither has Russia.


Invasion tally
China: Tibet, Korea. India, Vietnam, 

Russia: Chechya, Georgia, Ukraine (2014-current) (intervention in Mali, C.A.R. Libya, Syria, Sudan) Russia is only 30 years old and they spend more time in conflict than they are in peace.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Invasion tally
> China: Tibet, Korea. India, Vietnam,
> 
> Russia: Chechya, Georgia, Ukraine (2014-current) (intervention in Mali, C.A.R. Libya, Syria, Sudan) Russia is only 30 years old and they spend more time in conflict than they are in peace.



Georgia invasion was humanitarian war to save Osessians and Abkhaz from Georgian army. It's no different from American invasion of Serbia to save Kosovars from Serbian army. Syria invasion was because of invitation from the UN recognized government.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia is only 30 years old and they spend more time in conflict than they are in peace.



Russia began with founding of Moscow in 1147.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Humvee is a very versatile platform. And since it was already 40 years old (The first one was issued back in 1983 IIRC) they are dirt cheap. We should be sending 2000 Humvee with different weapon station on top.



Definitely. I know we have thousands that are in storage since the Marines and the Army are replacing them with JTLV. 2000 armored Humvees armed with air to air or anti tank or troop transport is dirt cheap for the fight in Ukraine and we are not sending in Abrams or Bradleys in there. Except in post war with export to Ukraine maybe. Should also send in M1117 vehicles as well. 

Anyways need for speed and mobility is important as we saw in Kharkiv region. As well as in Kherson. 








jhungary said:


> And they would need at least 100 to rout the Russian entirely. It's pointless not to follow up on the success in battlefield after they all but routed the Russian from Eastern Front.



Don't know if they will give them a 100. At least 50 would be optimistic. Hopefully they sped up production on the missiles as well as artillery rounds. Not just from U.S. but also other countries. Helps they all contribute.



jhungary said:


> Just as I said, once they took Kupiansk (which they officially did now) Russia would have to abandon anything South of Kupiansk. Some say Ukraine announced a Southern Offensive to draw Russian troop to the south so they can do this, but as I mentioned a few months ago, strangely the regular unit is absent from fighting in the East, they probably are trying to push, just that Ukraine most likely exploited the Southern Offensive for the best result.
> 
> 4 months of fighting in the East now all for almost nothing.


Any chance they could spearhead into Luhansk region? I've seen the Oskil River doesn't look too wide or too deep in some parts especially north of Kupyansk. Should use artillery and drones and HIMARS to hit any possible defensive line that the Russians may try to establish on the other side of the river while spearheading at the same time. Would scare the Russians that are busying attacking Sloviansk and trying to maintain control over other cities and towns in that direction especially Lysychansk and Sievierodonesk.


----------



## Viet

MultaniGuy said:


> As a Pakistani Muslim I could not care about this conflict.
> 
> Let the Europeans fight it out amongst themselves.
> 
> Now it is our turn to say that.


You are mistaken. Certainly it’s not a religious war.
That’s a global war.
Foods, energy, supplies, everything is up side down. Millions will die because of famine, countries going bankrupt. Drought, flooding in Pakistan will get worse if Putin continues burning gas off, european countries return to coal.


----------



## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Exactly, you don't give a fck what my uniform is called, I actually also don't give a fck on what you call yours. But your cheerleadinh woke strawberry thinks it's cute posting 3 pages of crap on uniforms. Lolololol and you posting half a page of bullshit again. Gosh.


Parade Line Army = PLA . That is what you gots. 

Of course, it is still too early to say that the Ukrainians will win. Poutine can still turn the war into his favor but that will take another large bite out of Russia's weakened economy, and your China will do nothing to help if it come to that because China cannot afford to dirty up those parade uniforms. All these talk about how Russia and China will take over the world, now looks dim, ain't it? Mocking the PLA's pretty boys and girls in their parade uniforms seems about right. Unlike Viet Nam, China will not send even a few cooks to Russia.

What do you think a weakened Russia _sans_ Poutine will do? How about make peace with the West and leaving China out in the cold? China, all alone again. Russia might even have diplomatic relations with Taiwan just to piss you off. 

Indeed, Parade Line Army sounds about right.

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## gambit

RoadAmerica said:


> How many brain cells do you have?
> You just repeat the same garbage page after page


One. And he has not permission from his 50-cent army commander to change the info in that cell.

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## Viet

This week turns to be a disaster for Russia invasion army. Charkiw is lost, faked referendum in Cherson cancelled .
Ukraine army had retaken 2,000 square kilometers. Russia defense lines are shattered. next waves of assaults coming.






Zerstörte Panzerfahrzeuge in der Region Charkiw am 10. September © Juan Barreto/AFP/Getty Images

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## Viet

Russia troops fleeing Charkiw, leaving all heavy equipment behind, retreating to Luhansk. Bad: Ukraine still has not received any western tanks, otherwise they can quickly chase, go after. Before the russians can regroup.
Moscow troops still hold Cherson. military observers believe Putin will demand the troops at southern sector, at Cherson to fight until the end.








Hrakove, Ukraine © IMAGO/ZUMA Wire






Ukraine drängt russische Truppen aus Gebieten im Osten zurück: „Das ist erst der Anfang“


Binnen Stunden erobert die Ukraine strategisch wichtige Städte zurück. Militärexperten sprechen bereits von einer „russischen Niederlage“ und einem „militärischen Wendepunkt“.




amp2.handelsblatt.com

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## Soldier35

The Russian Mi-8MTV-5 helicopter was named the Mad Eight after one of its sorties in Ukraine. The Mi-8MTV-5 is a modern modification of the Mi-8MT helicopter, developed taking into account the experience of combat use.






The MTLB tractor was modernized in Donetsk. The car was equipped with protection and a 23-mm ZU-23-2 twin anti-aircraft gun, and a 12.7 Utes machine gun was also installed.






The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine showed the exercises of the Marine Corps of Ukraine. The video shows one of the units crossing the river, the location of the exercises is unknown.






The Russian army, using Mi-26 transport helicopters, is transferring troops to the Kharkov direction to create a strike group of troops. Details and the purpose of the transfer of Russian troops are in the interview with the military correspondent in the video (Youtube subtitles)






Footage of lost and abandoned Ukrainian military equipment in the Izyumsko-Kupyansky direction. The video shows three Ukrainian-made infantry fighting vehicles and a new Turkish-made Kirpi armored personnel carrier. And two armored personnel carriers and a pickup truck from one of the mobile groups.


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## thetutle

This is all quite remarkable. To me and any foreign military official, it only demonstrates western power and military might. This is supposedly the second most powerful military on the run. 

also, the really scary thing is, Russia might be the number 2 army in the world. I'm not sure which army would do better. 

This tells you all you need to know about america's military. Can you imagine US army being overrun like this? there would be hundreds if not thousands of aircraft in the air providing air support and blowing everything up. 

Why isn't russia sending thousands of aircraft to counter this? They probably dont have them. Or they know they will mainly be shot down. 

This is just humiliating.

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> I understand one thing though.. Russia is committing 150K troops against 350k Ukrainian troops..


Russian leadership must be complete morons then. Trying to conquer, rape and pillage a neighboring country with half as many soldiers as the defenders.. Or are you trying to say Russia has something to be proud of?

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## Viet

Service members of the State Security Service of Ukraine patrol of an area of the recently liberated town of Kupiansk, amid Russia's attack on Ukraine, in Kharkiv region, Ukraine in this handout picture released September 10, 2022. Photo by Press Service of the State Security Service of Ukraine/Reuters


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## ZeGerman

thetutle said:


> This is all quite remarkable. To me and any foreign military official, it only demonstrates western power and military might. This is supposedly the second most powerful military on the run.
> 
> also, the really scary thing is, Russia might be the number 2 army in the world. I'm not sure which army would do better.
> 
> This tells you all you need to know about america's military. Can you imagine US army being overrun like this? there would be hundreds if not thousands of aircraft in the air providing air support and blowing everything up.
> 
> Why isn't russia sending thousands of aircraft to counter this? They probably dont have them. Or they know they will mainly be shot down.
> 
> This is just humiliating.


Russia is supposed to have over 1500 combat aircraft…..

Yet 200 days into the 3 day special operation they still did not control the skies…and couldnt even aid the troops being overrun in kharkiv

I think russia just turned out to be a massive paper tiger. Their numbers badly maintained or cannibilised/sold for parts.

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## Viet

MeFishToo said:


> Russian leadership must be complete morons then. Trying to conquer, rape and pillage a neighboring country with half as many soldiers as the defenders.. Or are you trying to say Russia has something to be proud of?


That’s propaganda. When the war began Russia fighting groups including separatists, mercenaries, ex hooligans, ex inmates, ex drug addicts are about 230,000 men. Then coming estimated 50,000 men re-enforcement. The new 3rd army corps, etc. that’s almost the entire Russia land army. Then you add Russia airforce personnel, Russia Black Sea fleet personnel.

If you add civilians working behind the front lines that support the war, then the number goes to one million.

Not to forget, to mention, Putin has turned the economy into a war machine by a parliament vote. That means the entire Russia manufacturing supports the war against Ukraine.


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## Vergennes

LMAO. A planned regrouping.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568887056822042626

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## alimobin memon

This is true or not ?

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## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> LMAO. A planned regrouping.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568887056822042626




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568876740088315906
@F-22Raptor

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## merzifonlu

Next Belarus. Ukraine case is closed now.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568858923225980928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568862303654936579

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568880226024976384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568890687248023554

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## Viet

alimobin memon said:


> This is true or not ?


It’s war, not kindergarten. Zelinskki has threatened, I believe, there is a presidential order, any Ukrainain that works with the enemy will be treated as enemy.
Probably not all but the worst traitors will be treated properly by a mobile execution commando.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568878637415559169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568840294916825088

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Definitely. I know we have thousands that are in storage since the Marines and the Army are replacing them with JTLV. 2000 armored Humvees armed with air to air or anti tank or troop transport is dirt cheap for the fight in Ukraine and we are not sending in Abrams or Bradleys in there. Except in post war with export to Ukraine maybe. Should also send in M1117 vehicles as well.
> 
> Anyways need for speed and mobility is important as we saw in Kharkiv region. As well as in Kherson.



Pretty sure Post War Ukraine WILL have a lot of American Equipment floating around, it would be mostly likely on US list, they are cheap, they are outdated for the US but they can pack a lot of power. 

On the other hand, would anyone want to piss off Ukraine after this war is over??

Kherson is different than Kharkiv, the Ukrainian was using a textbook probing and exploit attack in Kharkiv, they can do that because Russian hollow out most of their troop in Kharkiv and send them to Kherson. Notice that they gradually exploit the Russian line by moving and overlapping each other. That is a standard exploiting attack. Kherson on the other hand, have to be taken by brute force, as I said, I don't think Russian position is tenable in Kherson with all the bridges are blown, now with Kharkiv gone, it will severely limited Russian logistic option. They probably could not hold out until winter. 

But then they can't do what they do in Kharkiv in Kherson, because Russian has dug in, you need to dislodge their position methodically. Unless Russia is really incompetent, which after Kharkiv, I am not too sure the competence of Russian troop anymore.



Oldman1 said:


> Don't know if they will give them a 100. At least 50 would be optimistic. Hopefully they sped up production on the missiles as well as artillery rounds. Not just from U.S. but also other countries. Helps they all contribute.



They can, but whether or not they will is another problem, 50 is similar to 100, If US don't want to give them that much, that's because 50 or 100 HIMARS is very powerful as shown in this war. What 16 can do, now try to imagine what 50 can do? Maybe they will do something on HIMARS on FMS later on? But I wouldn't think the US will give them anymore.




Oldman1 said:


> Any chance they could spearhead into Luhansk region? I've seen the Oskil River doesn't look too wide or too deep in some parts especially north of Kupyansk. Should use artillery and drones and HIMARS to hit any possible defensive line that the Russians may try to establish on the other side of the river while spearheading at the same time. Would scare the Russians that are busying attacking Sloviansk and trying to maintain control over other cities and towns in that direction especially Lysychansk and Sievierodonesk.



With Kupiansk and Izyum gone, they are going to exploit Lyman and then Eastward, Lyman is already said to be about to fall, there are no way Russia can defend Lyman now if the Ukrainian also push from Sloviansk, they would envelope Lyman in 3 sides, Once Lyman is gone, that will threaten Russian line of Communication between LNR pre-2014 territories and new Occupied land, there are meaningful supply in pre-2014 LNR held territories and attacking them would be hard, but pre-2014 Ukrainian held territories would be another matter. There are no defensive lines for Siveredonetsk and Lysychansk, there are no defence line in Popasna, which mean if Ukraine attack now, most likely the Russian have to fall back to Pre-2014 LNR position to have anything defendable. 

So yes, I would imagine Ukraine will take a few days break taking control and consolidate the gain they made, and then breakout Northward from Kharkiv and Eastward toward rest of Luhansk.

Another thing I want to say is now the entire Russian operation was supplied by Kerch Strait and Bridge, I am more than certain Ukraine is going to do something to that Bridge in Kerch Strait.

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## mulj

What i counted of organized retreat from russian army that they passed over whole armored brigade to uaf.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568888139841683457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568896095375302656

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## gambit

It is estimated to rebuild Ukraine would take about 350 bils. We can count China out of this.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> It’s war, not kindergarten. Zelinskki has threatened, I believe, there is a presidential order, any Ukrainain that works with the enemy will be treated as enemy.
> Probably not all but the worst traitors will be treated properly by a mobile execution commando.


I think it's general norm anyone that collaborate with the enemy is committing treason, and in most country, the punishment of Treason is death.

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## Viet

Cool stuff
mini drone
Good for close combats


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## Vergennes

mulj said:


> What i counted of organized retreat from russian army that they passed over whole armored brigade to uaf.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568897246690672641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568892625519874048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568894697791459328
With Russia's debacle,Ukraine is recapturing some of its lost hardware

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## mulj

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568888139841683457
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568896095375302656


Kharkov was under realy heavy and unselective artillery fire from this region, hopefully now they are out of the reach of classical tube artillery.


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## Broccoli

thetutle said:


> This is all quite remarkable. To me and any foreign military official, it only demonstrates western power and military might. This is supposedly the second most powerful military on the run.
> 
> also, the really scary thing is, Russia might be the number 2 army in the world. I'm not sure which army would do better.
> 
> This tells you all you need to know about america's military. Can you imagine US army being overrun like this? there would be hundreds if not thousands of aircraft in the air providing air support and blowing everything up.
> 
> Why isn't russia sending thousands of aircraft to counter this? They probably dont have them. Or they know they will mainly be shot down.
> 
> This is just humiliating.



I guess that communication between Russian air force and Russian land forces is so bad that if they send fighters to bomb convoys moving on roads they most likely hit their own units, and since Russians lack GPM's it means they do strikes with dump munitions making their planes vulnerable to all kinda SAM system, even MANPADS what have relatively short range. 

USAF would simply pummel advancing Ukrainian columns with smart munitions from far away... Russian air force simply doesn't have that capability. This all must make Chinese sweat because they've basically arranged their air force same way with emphasis put on dump bombs vs mass quantaties of more expensive smart munitions.

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## Vergennes

Broccoli said:


> I guess that communication between Russian air force and Russian land forces is so bad that if they send fighters to bomb convoys moving on roads they most likely hit their own units, and since Russians lack GPM's it means they do strikes with dump munitions making their planes vulnerable to all kinda SAM system, even MANPADS what have relatively short range.
> 
> USAF would simply pummel advancing Ukrainian columns with smart munitions from far away... Russian air force simply doesn't have that capability. This all must make Chinese sweat because they've basically arranged their air force same way with emphasis put on dump bombs vs mass quantaties of more expensive smart munitions.



Some people here don't get the Russian air force is garbage,they can't conduct effective CAS missions given their AF lacks targeting pods and guided bombs,uses in majority unguided bombs and rockets,thus to provide CAS they have to fly low at the mercy of Ukrainian manpads and medium range air defence systems which are saturating the sky. Given also the bad inter arms capabilities and communications of the Russian armed forces,this is a path to a total disaster.

This is the reason you see Russians conducting strikes in Ukraine from Russia using cruise missiles.

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## alimobin memon

Viet said:


> It’s war, not kindergarten. Zelinskki has threatened, I believe, there is a presidential order, any Ukrainain that works with the enemy will be treated as enemy.
> Probably not all but the worst traitors will be treated properly by a mobile execution commando.


That is not the point. We are not im kindergarten duh. This is pro russian twitter account admits the russians retreat.


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## Muhammed45

alimobin memon said:


> This is true or not ?


You have any doubt? 

These are the savages wishing for Valhalla

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## Viet

alimobin memon said:


> That is not the point. We are not im kindergarten duh. This is pro russian twitter account admits the russians retreat.


I addressed the part where Ukraine security forces go from door to door, they look for collaborateurs.

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## Ali_Baba

Broccoli said:


> I guess that communication between Russian air force and Russian land forces is so bad that if they send fighters to bomb convoys moving on roads they most likely hit their own units, and since Russians lack GPM's it means they do strikes with dump munitions making their planes vulnerable to all kinda SAM system, even MANPADS what have relatively short range.
> 
> USAF would simply pummel advancing Ukrainian columns with smart munitions from far away... Russian air force simply doesn't have that capability. This all must make Chinese sweat because they've basically arranged their air force same way with emphasis put on dump bombs vs mass quantaties of more expensive smart munitions.



For both India / China - this war is an eye opener on the quality of Russian systems they have inducted and Soviet era tactics they rely on.

Having said that, it does seem that the average Russian soldier is very poorly trained, so full extrapolation is a tad difficult as-well.

In the case of China - she has the industrial capability to develop large quantities of smart weapons quickly and upgrade her airforce, and induct new operational tactics.

India will most likely go on a USA shopping spree - the recent articles about "running" out of weapons to deter China is part of the Indian establishment approach to try to unshackle itself from some Modi directives of make in India and to go on a buying spree(with all the lovely associated commissions the middlemen would get of course). I expect to see large quantities of HIMARS ordered by India - including the long range ATACMS rockets that give it the 300km range. This will have a negative effect on the PA doctrine for sure, but would give India the long range precision "surgical strike" capability against Pakistan it longs for ...

A lot of lessons learnt for a lot of countries for sure.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> This is all quite remarkable. To me and any foreign military official, it only demonstrates western power and military might. This is supposedly the second most powerful military on the run.
> 
> also, the really scary thing is, Russia might be the number 2 army in the world. I'm not sure which army would do better.
> 
> This tells you all you need to know about america's military. Can you imagine US army being overrun like this? there would be hundreds if not thousands of aircraft in the air providing air support and blowing everything up.
> 
> Why isn't russia sending thousands of aircraft to counter this? They probably dont have them. Or they know they will mainly be shot down.
> 
> This is just humiliating.


The key failure of this war is not personnel or equipment the Russian had, but the command structure and the war aim. 

In a long story very short, they put the wrong people in charge of this operation, and I don't know who's in Russian army is capable to put in charge.....The execute of this war was handled badly since the beginning.

Take Battle of Kyiv for example, once that was bogged down in the first 2 weeks, the High Command should have do something about that, instead of waiting for almost 5 weeks before declaring the Kyiv assault is dead and move on to the next object. What we did in the US would not allow this to happen. In Iraqi Freedom, 3rd Infantry was tasked to assault thru Karbala Gap to strike within range of Baghdad, we failed (I was with the 3d Infantry in Iraq, but I wasn't at Karbala Gap), we underestimated their combat strength, so we modify the plan and the 3d ID continue on and by-pass Karbala Gap and 101st Airborne (the follow up unit) would stay and fight, that make sure we got to Baghdad on time. 

None of this was done after the initial set back from Kyiv.

In number term, Russia have enough to take Ukraine, how they use their unit is the problem here, and that is a serious problem.

As for can you imagine US troop being run off like that? Well, a good army will withdraw before it gets to that point, we would have been long gone before that can happen. This is a complete failure of Russian military, they didn't even know Ukrainian are at the doorstep until they were knocking on their door, hence this rout.......

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## Ali_Baba

FuturePAF said:


> India maybe buying a large number of Himars soon, but the Himalayas cut both ways and can India win in a war or attrition against China when China could just produce more and fly them to the frontlines around the clock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US should have recognized the Chechen Republic under Aslan Maskhadov after the first Chechen war in the early 90s, it would have gained another ally like Kosovo.



The problem India has - is that there is not much of value to hit in Tibet for HIMARS.. but China has its own version of HIMARs and there is alof of high value items for China to hit in India in such an exchange, as even New Delhi is in range.

If India does procure the HIMARs, it will be for Pakistan and not China.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568899212976201728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568899223139110913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568899233314381824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568899243397550080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568899249688952833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568899257771384832

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## PakFactor

Ali_Baba said:


> The problem India has - is that there is not much of value to hit in Tibet for HIMARS.. but China has its own version of HIMARs and there is alof of high value items for China to hit in India in such an exchange, as even New Delhi is in range.
> 
> If India does procure the HIMARs, it will be for Pakistan and not China.



Of course, if I were India, I would acquire it as a Pakistan-specific weapon as well. Just be ready once this conflict is done India is going on an enormous spending spree and American training, and it will come to haunt Pakistan down the road. No amount of boot licking will save it; Pakistan will be neutered.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568899264650280961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568887051327504386

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568887056822042626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568887483093422080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568901256038567938

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## FuturePAF

Ali_Baba said:


> The problem India has - is that there is not much of value to hit in Tibet for HIMARS.. but China has its own version of HIMARs and there is alof of high value items for China to hit in India in such an exchange, as even New Delhi is in range.
> 
> If India does procure the HIMARs, it will be for Pakistan and not China.


True, they will buy it in the name of China and hope to use it against Pakistan.


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## PakFactor

FuturePAF said:


> True, they will buy it in the name of China and hope to use it against Pakistan.



Of course, if I were India, I would acquire it as a Pakistan-specific weapon as well. Just be ready once this conflict is done India is going on an enormous spending spree and American training, and it will come to haunt Pakistan down the road. No amount of boot licking will save it; Pakistan will be neutered.

India doesn't need to play the game of saying it's for China, and then it'll be used against Pakistan.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568922066182602752

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568829539240878080


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568922142217060354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568922201495150592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568920775113031680
Looks like Russia has abandoned nearly all territory west of the Oskil

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568919845533618177


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568927187457445889
The entire Kharkiv Oblast has been liberated

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568906817811484675


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568888288530038785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568923234489307136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568926696471945217

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568903049871065089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568889693911281664


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568929173380497408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568925411647561729

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## jhungary

Ukrainian Force had taken Bilohorvika, Lysychansk is next.....









Russians Flee From Izyum And Weaken In Luhansk Region: Current Battles Maps


The defence of the Russian troops "fell down" on a huge section of the front under the blows of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.




charter97.org

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## Viet

Ukraine army advance unstoppable, 3,000 square kilometers liberated.
Ukraine won territory in 5 days than Russia gains in 5 months.

Russia’s 3rd mechanized rifle division, and 20th army corps failed to retreat, still trapped at Charkiw. They are cut off from suppliers, panicked, as per Ukraine general staff.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568931495573864448

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568888288530038785
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568923234489307136
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568926696471945217



Videos keep coming of liberated towns and villages in Kharkiv oblast.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568916167179513861
Keep in mind videos are coming to telegram channels hours if not days after their real liberation,meaning even more territories are being liberated as of now. Seems Russia will pull out of Kharkiv oblast.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568928534537863169
Russians even abandoned their shitty orlans after their debacle sorry strategic and planned regrouping.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568927655839293440

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568939457713213443

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568927187457445889
> The entire Kharkiv Oblast has been liberated



This is a military victory for Ukraine in that region - a complete rout of Russian forces, hard fought on the battlefield and through the use of superior strategy and fighting spirit. It is not a strategic move or a "master" feint move nonsense ...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568939083170291718

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568942466350342148

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568942220790890499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568937543969669124

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568945873517793280

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568947213656522755

HIMARS/M270 licking their chops

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568916290655461376

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## Viet

Welcome to Vasylenkow






Ukrainische Soldaten posieren am Ortseingang der kürzlich befreiten Siedlung Vasylenkow in der Region Charkiw.
(Foto: via REUTERS)

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568947213656522755
> 
> HIMARS/M270 licking their chops



Not sure they will be allowed to use HIMARS to attack those sites in Russia?

Ukraine can use conventional artillery to take out those sites anyway - they are a fair target given their involvement in actively supplying troops in Ukraine.

Russia troops 'putting on civilian clothes and running away' as Putin invasion collapses​








Russia troops 'putting on civilian clothes and running' from front


RUSSIAN soldiers have been reported to be shedding their uniforms and deserting amid Ukraine's ongoing pushback to force Putin's troops back across the border.




www.express.co.uk

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## Viet

The Russians participate Ukraine assault on Luhansk where the main forces from Charkiw retreating.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568860757537837056


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## Hold the door

Russia definitely lost this war.

They will overthrow Putin. They will withdraw completely from Ukraine. They will give Ukraine a large war indemnity.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568956934249644034

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## Ali_Baba

Pretty much sums up Russian Forces occupation forces in the Kharkiv district ....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568955994415288322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568955997623881729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568956002200076289

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568876674544173057

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568627069872898054
My goodness, some Russian tank crewman got sent to space and back through a roof.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568961431793549315

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568954436470415368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568962638331392001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568967168473157632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568965320102281217

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568937242877476867


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568967459209879554

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568965320102281217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568946408023097344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568968911324073984

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568954086938087426


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## Viet

Russian troop panic retreating from Charkiw left lots of ammo behind.







Bild vergrößern
Zurückgelassene Munitionskisten in Balaklija
Foto: JUAN BARRETO / AFP
​


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568927683060301827


----------



## Broccoli

Only one pro-Russian forum member bothers posting Russian talking points. Says it all really.

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## F-22Raptor

Broccoli said:


> Only one pro-Russian forum member bothers posting Russian talking points. Says it all really.


Supaboy been trolling this forum for years

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## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568627069872898054
> My goodness, some Russian tank crewman got sent to space and back through a roof.


Imagine returning to your house to see that

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568728342643310595


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Broccoli said:


> Only one pro-Russian forum member bothers posting Russian talking points. Says it all really.



I'm not pro Russian. I'm simply pro war. I like forever war. I am interested in military hardware.


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, SEPTEMBER 10​Sep 11, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Grace Mappes, George Barros, Angela Howard, and Mason Clark
September 10, 11:30pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The Ukrainian counteroffensive in Kharkiv Oblast is routing Russian forces and collapsing Russia’s northern Donbas axis.* Russian forces are not conducting a controlled withdrawal and are hurriedly fleeing southeastern Kharkiv Oblast to escape encirclement around Izyum. Russian forces have previously weakened the northern Donbas axis by redeploying units from this area to Southern Ukraine, complicating efforts to slow the Ukrainian advance or at minimum deploy a covering force for the retreat. Ukrainian gains are not confined to the Izyum area; Ukrainian forces reportedly captured Velikiy Burluk on September 10, which would place Ukrainian forces within 15 kilometers of the international border.[1] *Ukrainian forces have penetrated Russian lines to a depth of up to 70 kilometers in some places and captured over 3,000 square kilometers of territory in the past five days since September 6 – more territory than Russian forces have captured in all their operations since April.
Ukrainian forces will likely capture the city of Izyum itself in the next 48 hours if they have not already done so. *The liberation of Izyum would be the most significant Ukrainian military achievement since winning the Battle of Kyiv in March. It would eliminate the Russian advance in northwest Donetsk Oblast along the E40 highway that the Russian military sought to use to outflank Ukrainian positions along the Slovyansk – Kramatorsk line. A successful encirclement of Russian forces fleeing Izyum would result in the destruction or capture of significant Russian forces and exacerbate Russian manpower and morale issues. Russian war correspondents and milbloggers have also reported facing challenges when evacuating from Izyum, indicating Ukrainian forces are at least partially closing a cauldron in some areas.[2]
*The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced the withdrawal of troops from the Balakliya-Izyum line on September 10, falsely framing the retreat as a “regrouping” of forces to support Russian efforts in the Donetsk Oblast direction – mirroring the Kremlin’s false explanation for the Russian withdrawal after the Battle of Kyiv.*[3] The Russian MoD did not acknowledge Ukrainian successes around Kharkiv Oblast as the primary factor for the Russian retreat, and claimed that Russian military command has been carrying out a controlled withdrawal from the Balakliya-Izyum area for the past three days. The Russian MoD falsely claimed that Russian forces undertook a number of demonstrative actions and used artillery and aviation to ensure the safety of withdrawing Russian forces. These Russian statements have no relation to the situation on the ground.
*The Russian MoD’s inability to admit Russian failures in Kharkiv Oblast and effectively set information conditions is collapsing the Russian information space. *Kremlin-sponsored TV propagandists offered a wide range of confused explanations for Ukrainian successes ranging from justifications that Russian forces are fighting against the entire Western Bloc, to downplaying the importance of Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCS) in Kupyansk.[4] The Kremlin’s propagandists appeared unusually disorganized in their narratives, with some confirming the liberation of certain towns and others refuting such reports. Guest experts also were unable to reaffirm the hosts’ narratives that Ukrainian successes are not significant for the Donbas axis. Such programming may reveal the true progress of the Russian “special military operation” to the general Russian public that relies on state media and the Russian MoD for updates.
*The withdrawal announcement further alienated the Russian milblogger and Russian nationalist communities that support the Kremlin’s grandiose vision for capturing the entirety of Ukraine. *Russian milbloggers condemned the Russian MoD for remaining quiet, choosing self-isolation, and distorting situational awareness in Russia.[5] One milblogger even stated that the Russian MoD’s silence is a betrayal of Russian servicemen that fought and still fight in Ukraine.[6] A Russian milblogger also noted that the Russian MoD has repeatedly ignored or demeaned the milblogger community that raised concerns with Russian military leadership and lack of transparency on the frontlines.[7] The milbloggers called on the Russian MoD to take the information space into its own hands and stop relying on silencing information.
Prior to the withdrawal announcement, the Russian MoD released footage of Russian military convoys reportedly moving to reinforce the Kharkiv direction on September 9.[8] Many Russian outlets and milbloggers expressed hope that these reinforcements would stabilize the frontline and repel Ukrainian advances on Izyum despite the Russian MoD failing to address the unfolding situation days prior. Russian milbloggers would have likely accepted MoD’s announcement of a withdrawal like they previously did with the Russian retreat from the Snake Island and other tactical Russian losses if the Russian information space was not oversaturated with footage of Ukrainian successes. Such inconsistencies in messaging further support ISW’s assessment that the Russian MoD faces challenges in responding to unexpected developments within the established informational framework, which portrays Russian invasion of Ukraine as an easy and faultless operation.[9] Most importantly, such unaware information practices erode the Russian public’s trust in Russian MoD messaging and disrupt the Kremlin’s propaganda facade.
*Russian milbloggers also criticized the Russian occupation authorities for failing to organize evacuation measures in Kharkiv Oblast. *Some milbloggers noted that occupation administrations are disoriented and lack initiative.[10] The Ukrainian counteroffensive is effectively paralyzing the Russian occupation leadership that is likely afraid for its fate.
*Key Takeaways*

*Ukrainian forces in Kharkiv Oblast are collapsing Russia’s northern Donbas axis, and Ukrainian forces will likely recapture Izyum itself in the next 48 hours.*
*The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced the withdrawal of troops from the Balakliya-Izyum line on September 10, and the Russian MoD’s failure to set effective information conditions is collapsing the Russian information space.*
*The withdrawal announcement and occupation authorities’ failure to organize evacuation measures is further alienating the Russian milblogger and Russian nationalist communities that support the Kremlin’s grandiose vision of capturing the entirety of Ukraine.*
*Ukrainian forces reached positions within 15–25km of the Russo-Ukrainian border in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast, Izyum’s northern outskirts, and Lyman’s south and southwestern outskirts, and captured the western half of Kupyansk.*
*Russian forces are reinforcing frontline positions in Kherson Oblast while Ukrainian forces conduct positional battles and continue their interdiction campaign against Russian logistics lines.*
*Russian forces conducted limited ground assaults north of Kharkiv City, south of Bakhmut, and west of Donetsk City.*
*Russian recruitment drives are generating some criticism among Russian milbloggers and regions.*
*Russian forces are reportedly intensifying filtration measures in Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts in response to Ukrainian counteroffensives on the Southern Axis.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives – Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort – Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort- Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort 1- Kharkiv City
Russian Supporting Effort 2- Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Vovchansk-Kupyansk-Izyum-Lyman Line)*
Ukrainian forces reached the northern outskirts of Izyum on September 10 and will likely recapture the city within the next 48 hours if they have not already.[11] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Ukrainian forces have not yet entered Izyum and largely reported that Russian forces are withdrawing from the city.[12] Russian sources reported that the Russian military deployed reinforcements to cover a withdrawal from Izyum to the left bank of the Oskil River.[13] Ukrainian forces’ northern advance has severed Russian forces’ most significant ground lines of communication (GLOCS) to Izyum. Russian forces must now rely on suboptimal paths to the south and southeast that run through difficult terrain and over the Siverskyi Donets and Oskil rivers to withdraw forces.



[Source: Esri, Maxar, Earthstar Geographics, and the GIS User Community]​Ukrainian forces seized the western half of Kupyansk on September 10 and can likely take the rest of the city within 24 hours if they choose to cross the Oskil River.[14] Russian sources reported that Russian forces retreated from western Kupyansk to the east bank of the Oskil River, where, a Russian source claimed, Russian forces can defend Kupyansk’s industrial zone more easily.[15] A Russian source claimed that Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance groups are operating in the eastern half of Kupyansk.[16] Geolocated footage shows Russian forces fleeing east from Kupyansk’s eastern outskirts, suggesting that most or all Russian forces in Kupyansk are withdrawing or have withdrawn to the east, most likely to Svatove, Luhansk Oblast.[17]
Ukrainian forces advanced to the southern and southwestern outskirts of Lyman on September 10, where Russian forces are covering the Izyum group’s withdrawal. Russian sources reported that Russian forces defended positions in Lyman against Ukrainian advances.[18] Some Russian sources reported that Ukrainian forces established positions in small areas of Lyman’s environs, but that the Russian defense holds.[19] Conflicting Russian reports that Russian forces withdrew from Lyman are likely false but attest to the panicked and confused state of the Russian information space about Russian forces’ situation in this area.
Ukrainian forces advanced to positions within 15–25km of the Russo-Ukrainian border in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast on September 10. Russian sources reported that Ukrainian forces captured Velyky Burlyk at the T2111 and T2114 intersection and Khotomlya on the east bank of the Pechenhy Reservoir.[20] Russian sources stated that Ukrainian forces took advantage of the absence of a continuous Russian front line while advancing on Velyky Burluk.[21] Ukrainian forces’ continued quick pace of advance is severing long-held Russian GLOCS that support operations in northern Luhansk Oblast, and their loss will severely hamper Russian and proxy operations.
Russian forces likely no longer hold all of Luhansk Oblast as of September 10. Ukrainian forces likely captured Bilohorivka sometime between September 4 and 10. Russian sources reported that Russian forces withdrew from Bilohorivka sometime on September 4–10.[22] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai stated that Ukrainian forces reached the outskirts of Lysychansk on September 10.[23] A recently posted, though undated, video shows Ukrainian forces entering Bilohorivka on an unspecified date.[24] Bilohorivka was on the previously known frontline and is immediately adjacent to Lysychansk.
*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Ukrainian military officials reported that Ukrainian forces are conducting positional battles in Kherson Oblast on September 10 but did not disclose specific areas of operation.[25] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command Spokesperson Nataliya Humenyuk stated that Ukrainian forces have advanced tens of kilometers in some unnamed areas of Kherson Oblast and noted that the Ukrainian counteroffensive is pushing Russian forces to retreat to their second lines of defenses.[26] Humenyuk added that Russian forces continue to resist Ukrainian attacks and retain ammunition and supplies on the frontlines, but Russian units are suffering heavy losses. The Ukrainian General Staff, for example, stated that unspecified elements of the Russian 106th Guards Airborne Division operating in Kherson Oblast lost over 58 servicemen in one day.[27] Humenyuk and other Ukrainian military officials reiterated that Ukrainian forces are continuing their interdiction campaign by striking Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCS), ammunition depots and key positions to further weaken the reportedly 25,000- to 35,000-strong group of Russian troops on the Dnipro River's right bank.[28] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command notably reported that Ukrainian forces destroyed another Russian ferry crossing over the Dnipro River in Lvove (west of Nova Kakhovka) and an ammunition depot in Bilyaivka in northern Kherson Oblast.[29] Russian forces are also reportedly attempting to repair the collapsed Kakhovka Bridge.[30]
Social media footage of strikes, explosions, and activated Russian air defense systems indicates Ukraine’s interdiction campaign against Russian logistics in Kherson Oblast continued on September 10. Kherson City Telegram channels and media outlets reported a powerful explosion at a local military recruitment center in Kherson City, which housed newly arrived Russian personnel and military staff.[31] Ukrainian sources also reported explosions in Kherson City’s industrial zone and in the area of the Antonivsky Railway Bridge.[32] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed to have destroyed five rounds of Ukrainian HIMARS strikes in the vicinity of Nova Kakhovka.[33] Local reports also indicate that Russian forces are continuing to use barges to transport equipment to and from Kherson City.[34]
Ukrainian military officials also noted the arrival of additional Russian troops to central Kherson Oblast, which will reinforce occupied positions. Russian forces reportedly deployed an unspecified 1,300-person-strong Chechen unit to Kherson Oblast.[35] It is possible that the Chechen units may be newly formed volunteer battalions or are at least in part staffed by new recruits. The Ukrainian General Staff and Ukrainian intelligence previously noted that new arrivals are older and inexperienced men, which fits the profile of Russian volunteer recruits.[36] Deputy Head of the Republic of Bashkortostan Alik Kamaletdinov announced that volunteer battalions from Bashkortostan are fighting on the frontlines in the Mykolaiv Oblast direction, suggesting that Russian forces are deploying newly formed volunteer units to the Southern Axis.[37] Russian forces are reportedly also regrouping surviving personnel of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) 1st Army Corps into other units.[38]
Ukrainian and Russian sources identified four areas of kinetic activity along the Kherson Oblast administrative border: west of Kherson City, near Snihurivka (about 60km east of Mykolaiv City), southeast of the Ukrainian bridgehead over the Inhulets River, and south of the Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast administrative border. Kremlin-affiliated Russian war correspondents published footage of Russian artillery reportedly striking Ukrainian forces attempting to advance on Oleksandrivka, approximately 40km west of Kherson City, and noted that the settlement is near a “gray zone” between Russian and Ukrainian artillery positions.[39] A Russian milblogger also claimed that Russian forces are launching offensive operations from Snihurivka to suppress a claimed Ukrainian logistics hub in Bereznehuvate, about 25km due north from Snihurivka.[40] The Russian MoD claimed that Russian forces struck a Ukrainian command post in the Snihurivka Raion.[41] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces launched air strikes on Bruskynske (on the T2207 highway about 11km southeast of the bridgehead), which may indicate that Ukrainian forces are advancing in its vicinity or that Russian forces have left their positions near the settlement.[42] A Russian milblogger also noted that Ukrainian and Russian forces engaged in positional battles near Ukrainian-liberated Vysokopillya, Olhyne, and Arkhanhelske in northern Kherson Oblast.[43]
The Russian MoD did not comment on the progress of the Ukrainian southern counteroffensive on September 10.[44] A Kremlin-affiliated war correspondent stated that Russian reporters in Kherson Oblast have strict restrictions on publishing combat footage and noted minimal use of commercially-available drones.[45]
*Russian Main Effort- Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort- Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground attacks in the Siversk area on September 10 and continued to conduct routine strikes on Siversk and surrounding settlements.[46] A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces attempted to break through Russian defenses in Spirne (southeast of Siversk).[47]
Russian forces attempted several minor ground attacks south of Bakhmut of September 10. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted failed offensive operations near Bakhmut, toward Mayorsk, Mykolayivka Druha, Zaitseve, Vesela Dolyna, and Bakhmut.[48] Chechen Republic Head Ramzan Kadyrov posted footage of Chechen Akhmat Special Forces Commander Apta Alaudinov celebrating an alleged breakthrough at an unspecified point in the Soledar direction (approximately 12km northeast of Bakhmut), and a Russian milblogger mirrored claims of unspecified “slight” Wagner group advances east of Bakhmut.[49] The milblogger also claimed that Russian forces took control of several blocks around the Knauf Gips Donbas gypsum factory southeast of Soledar.[50] These represent the only claimed Russian territorial gains on September 10. Russian forces continued routine artillery strikes on Bakhmut and its surroundings.
Russian forces conducted two confirmed ground attacks west of Donetsk City on September 10. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled attempted Russian assaults on Pervomaiske (about 18km west of Donetsk City) and Novomykhailivka (about 29km southwest of Donetsk City).[51] Russian milbloggers denied social media reports that Ukrainian forces attacked Russian positions near the Donetsk City Airport.[52]



*Supporting Effort #1- Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the Russian border)*
Russian forces conducted a limited ground assault north of Kharkiv City and continued routine fire on Kharkiv City and the surrounding settlements on September 10.[53] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian ground assault near Sosnivka, less than 10km from the international border.[54] A Russian source claimed that Ukrainian forces are probing Russian defenses in Liptsy.[55]



*Supporting Effort #2- Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces did not attempt to advance in western Zaporizhia Oblast and continued routine shelling throughout the Southern Axis.[56] Ukrainian sources reported that Ukrainian forces struck unspecified targets in Russian-occupied Polohy on the western Zaporizhia Oblast frontline.[57] Melitopol Mayor Ivan Fedorov noted reports of unspecified explosions and shooting in Melitopol on the night of September 9–10.[58]
Russian forces continued launching artillery, missile, and air strikes at Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv Oblasts on September 10. Russian forces launched two Kh-59 cruise missiles on Dnipro City, and Ukrainian air defense units shot down one of the missiles.[59] Russian forces continued to target Nikopol Raion with MLRS and heavy artillery and launched S-300 air defense missiles at the pier area in Mykolaiv City.[60]
Russian occupations authorities are setting information conditions to seize control of Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) operations amid international outcries. Zaporizhia Oblast occupation official Vladimir Rogov claimed that Ukrainian officials deliberately shut down power to the ZNPP and that the occupation administration is considering having the ZNPP continue to generate power or conserving the plant through a cold shutdown.[61] Rogov stated that he is opposed to peacekeepers visiting the ZNPP, claiming they will be biased against Russia, and claimed the ZNPP needs security against claimed Ukrainian shelling instead of peacekeepers.[62] Rogov’s statement comes one day after the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) released a draft resolution calling on Russia to cease all operations at the ZNPP.[63] Rogov’s statements indicate continued Russian hostility towards any non-Russian intervention at the ZNPP.



*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Russian federal subjects’ (regions) excessive recruitment advertisements for contract service and enlistment into volunteer detachments are igniting some criticism among local Russians and milbloggers. Khaborovsk Krai residents started a petition to send Khabarovsk Krai Governor Mikhail Degtyaryov to the frontlines in Ukraine after Degtyaryov stated that he would love to fight in Ukraine if he did not hold his office.[64] ISW previously reported that the Kremlin likely ordered regional heads to personally advertise contract service, and such efforts may give rise to local dissatisfaction with regional authorities.[65] Hundreds of Khabarovsk Krai residents protested Degtyaryov’s appointment as the krai governor in summer of 2020, and his recruitment advertisement may be reopening public criticism of his leadership.[66] Russian military correspondent and milblogger Maksim Fomin (known under the alias Vladlen Tatarsky) has called on interested volunteers to refrain from enlisting into volunteer battalions, despite previously welcoming the Kremlin’s force-generation initiative in mid-July.[67] Fomin stated on September 10 that recruits should enlist into the Russian Armed Forces to fill out the 3rd battalion in existing Russian brigades (referencing the Russian practice of pulling personnel from each regiment’s first and second battalions to generate battalion tactical groups), rather than joining “disparate battalions and incomprehensible detachments.”[68] Fomin also called on officers to properly train volunteers, instead of simply taking photos of recruits at the training ground for propaganda.
Russian forces are reportedly continuing to forcefully mobilize men in Luhansk Oblast and are recruiting Central Asian men for contract service. The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian recruiters are promising retired Kyrgyz military personnel high salaries through social media to serve in the Russian invasion of Ukraine.[69] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian forces continued to forcefully mobilize disabled and old men.[70]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian forces are reportedly intensifying filtration measures in Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts in response to Ukrainian counteroffensives on the Southern Axis. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces and Russian Security Service (FSB) elements deployed from Russia are searching for civilians who assist Ukrainian forces and are checking civilian mobile phones in Nova Kakhovka.[71] The Ukrainian General Staff reported similar filtration practices in Enerhodar.
Russian occupation authorities are further restricting the movement of goods from Ukraine into occupied territories that will likely impact the transport of humanitarian cargo. Head of the Zaporizhia Occupation Administration Yevheny Balitsky announced a complete ban on September 10 of commercial cargo transport to occupied territories through the checkpoint at Vasylivka, Zaporizhia Oblast.[72] Occupation authorities will likely use the ban on cargo transportation at Vasylivka to justify preventing humanitarian convoys from entering occupied Zaporizhia Oblast from unoccupied Ukraine.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568979057668227079

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## jhungary

Unconfirmed report from a telegraph channel I followed said Lyman has been taken by Ukrainian force. Official announcement will come soon.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568983920175202304

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## Hamartia Antidote

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> There is no naturally defined line between Europe and Asia. You know, you can just drive your car between Vladivostok and Moscow.



Well the whole US population can fly on a plane to Hawaii...but that isn't going to change anything,


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Well the whole US population can fly on a plane to Hawaii...but that isn't going to change anything,



There is ocean between Hawaii and mainland US. There is no ocean between Vladivostok and Moscow.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> There is ocean between Hawaii and mainland US. There is no ocean between Vladivostok and Moscow.



Are you saying the population density in the Europe side is just a byproduct of Asians migrating there to look for better jobs..akin to mass migration of people from the 48 states moving to Hawaii but actually having North American loyalties?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568987433613799424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568988821492203520

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine’s southern offensive ‘was designed to trick Russia’​








Ukraine’s southern offensive ‘was designed to trick Russia’


Exclusive: Russian forces wrong-footed by attack in Kharkiv region after preparing for offensive in the south




www.theguardian.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine’s southern offensive ‘was designed to trick Russia’​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s southern offensive ‘was designed to trick Russia’
> 
> 
> Exclusive: Russian forces wrong-footed by attack in Kharkiv region after preparing for offensive in the south
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



Kherson is heavily defended and it's pretty much suicidal to march tanks across 50 km of flat ground with no cover. Ukraine cannot take back Kherson.


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## Ali_Baba

Putin loyalist Kadyrov criticises Russian army’s performance over Ukraine retreat​








Putin loyalist Kadyrov criticises Russian army’s performance over Ukraine retreat


Ramzan Kadyrov, Kremlin-appointed Chechnya leader, suggests Putin might not be fully aware of true state of affairs




www.theguardian.com


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China has never invaded another country. And neither has Russia.


No just their territorial water as defined by the UN


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> No just their territorial water as defined by the UN



People cannot live on water. Whether China counts it or not is not relevant. China's area 9.6 million square kilometers does not count South China Sea. This is official area counted by Chinese government. It does not count South China Sea. Counting South China Sea means China has area more than 13 million square kilometers, more than Canada.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568992480909205504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568990447841722370


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568989148916187138


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568982695862046722

Reactions: Love Love:
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## jhungary

Su-34 shot down in Kharkiv 









Russian Su-34 20 red shot down in Kharkiv region Kharkiv - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Russian Su-34 20 red shot down in Kharkiv region. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests, terrorism, weapons deployment...




liveuamap.com

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568919845533618177


Cool story, maybe they’ll make some tik toks


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568992480909205504
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568990447841722370




The Russians are retreating from Starobilsk. If the Ukrainians get here, they’ll have flanking positions on Russian forces in Severodonetsk and Bakhmut

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568997493504884736
Near the Russian border

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## FuturePAF

PakFactor said:


> Of course, if I were India, I would acquire it as a Pakistan-specific weapon as well. Just be ready once this conflict is done India is going on an enormous spending spree and American training, and it will come to haunt Pakistan down the road. No amount of boot licking will save it; Pakistan will be neutered.


Yes and No. It will be one of the legacies of the time wasted this year due to the internal political dynamic in Pakistan, but beyond key systems and platforms, India will still try to get foreign ToT as part of any deal and it will be what slows them down. That is why the Indians have been buying Russian equipment recently. They want ToT such as their carrier and their subs.

Pakistan for its part needs to get its political and economic house in order to be able to rebuild its diplomatic and military stability vis a vis India. IK was right that regional economic integration (geo-economics) is the key to economic development and regional stability. Hopefully the PTI comes back with a more “refined” platform for the 2023 elections. This time out of power, has let the current leadership reset some relations and frayed others. The PTI can come back and be diplomatic with those where the relations have improved and work to rebuild the relations with those that have ebbed. The Russo-Ukrainian war has created new realities on the ground and its good that Pakistan shipped artillery shells to Ukraine via the Brits to get mend some fences with the west. Pakistan should be sending experimental systems to the Ukrainians so they can be tested against Russian systems as well as “advisors”  to help use these systems (as well as watch these systems like Himars and learn what needs to be learned so that should the Indians acquired anything that is battle tested in Ukraine, Pakistan will be ready for it).


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568988100281651202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568989028392865793


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I'm not pro Russian. I'm simply pro war. I like forever war. I am interested in military hardware.


Pro war?? You really only have one brain cell and now it’s confirmed



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> People cannot live on water. Whether China counts it or not is not relevant. China's area 9.6 million square kilometers does not count South China Sea. This is official area counted by Chinese government. It does not count South China Sea. Counting South China Sea means China has area more than 13 million square kilometers, more than Canada.


No no no you said China doesn’t start wars I point out that you’re full of 💩


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568998482182119425
Unconfirmed, but reports saying Russians have retreated from Snihurivka in Kherson oblast. That would be huge


----------



## ziaulislam

I have no idea what Russia is planning here.

Are they planning to take all Ukraine? Don't think so I don't see the effort or declaration of full war 

Are they planning to take donbass..don't see that there isn't a focus push on that.

IMO, they should have just planned for donbass


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ziaulislam said:


> Are they planning to take all Ukraine?



No. Why would they do that?



ziaulislam said:


> Are they planning to take donbass



Yes.



ziaulislam said:


> don't see that there isn't a focus push on that.



Next offensive is only in winter.



ziaulislam said:


> IMO, they should have just planned for donbass



That was the plan all along.


----------



## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians are retreating from Starobilsk. If the Ukrainians get here, they’ll have flanking positions on Russian forces in Severodonetsk and Bakhmut




If true this can have a significant impact , wait and see :






~


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians are retreating from Starobilsk. If the Ukrainians get here, they’ll have flanking positions on Russian forces in Severodonetsk and Bakhmut



At this rate - Ukraine will be able to liberate the whole of Luhansk .. it does look like Russia cannot stablise any defensive lines anywhere right now.

The shock and awe of the Ukranian _Blitzkrieg_ operation seems to have completely broken the morale of the Russian occupiers and right now, Russia risks the breakage of the landbridge to Crimea and the associated supply lines of materials and men to those in Kherson ....

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569006790838308865

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## FuturePAF

Ali_Baba said:


> Not sure they will be allowed to use HIMARS to attack those sites in Russia?
> 
> Ukraine can use conventional artillery to take out those sites anyway - they are a fair target given their involvement in actively supplying troops in Ukraine.
> 
> Russia troops 'putting on civilian clothes and running away' as Putin invasion collapses​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia troops 'putting on civilian clothes and running' from front
> 
> 
> RUSSIAN soldiers have been reported to be shedding their uniforms and deserting amid Ukraine's ongoing pushback to force Putin's troops back across the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk


The US won’t allow targets inside Russia to be hit with US weapons. The goal is to drive out Russia and bloody them while they are in Ukraine.



Ali_Baba said:


> At this rate - Ukraine will be able to liberate the whole of Luhansk .. it does look like Russia cannot stablise any defensive lines anywhere right now.
> 
> The shock and awe of the Ukranian _Blitzkrieg_ operation seems to have completely broken the morale of the Russian occupiers and right now, Russia risks teh breakage of the landbridge to Crimea and the associated supply lines of materials and men to those in Kherson ....


So what was the operation that started this shift back? Did the Russians just exhaust themselves or did they hit some real barrier that bogged them down enough for the Ukrainians to rally and push the Russians back?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569000232788033536


----------



## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> At this rate - Ukraine will be able to liberate the whole of Luhansk .. it does look like Russia cannot stablise any defensive lines anywhere right now.
> 
> The shock and awe of the Ukranian _Blitzkrieg_ operation seems to have completely broken the morale of the Russian occupiers and right now, Russia risks teh breakage of the landbridge to Crimea and the associated supply lines of materials and men to those in Kherson ....


No worry, everything goes according to plan. 

- Vladimir Putin

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## Ali_Baba



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Kharkiv has never been that important to Russia anyway. The main focus has always been Kherson. Kherson is vital to Crimea's water supply via the Dnipr. In fact, it can be said the rationale for starting the war in the first place is water.

That is why there was a feint assault on Kiev to draw Ukrainian army away from Kherson.


----------



## Viet

Real comedy

While Russia army suffers a military disaster at Charkiw, the commander in chief Putin opens a Ferris wheel in Moscow.
However the giant wheel breaks down after one day due to technical problem.






Das neu errichtete Riesenrad am Samstag in Moskau Bild: AP

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## ziaulislam

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> No. Why would they do that?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> Next offensive is only in winter.
> 
> 
> 
> That was the plan all along.


Well if donbass was the plan then why did Russia launched a three prong attack focusing on capital Kiev during earlier war..

They took half of donbass via proxy war they could have taken all of them had concentrates their war..

Hell Europe would have given it's blessings..no one wants this war surely not the Europeans..
Americans like it but not the Europeans

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ziaulislam said:


> Well if donbass was the plan then why did Russia launched a three prong attack focusing on capital Kiev during earlier war..
> 
> They took half of donbass via proxy war they could have taken all of them had concentrates their war..
> 
> Hell Europe would have given it's blessings..no one wants this war surely not the Europeans..
> Americans like it but not the Europeans



The main focus has always been Kherson. Kherson is vital to Crimea's water supply via the Dnipr. In fact, it can be said the rationale for starting the war in the first place is water.

That is why there was a feint assault on Kiev to draw Ukrainian army away from Kherson.


----------



## Viet

The twin attacks by Ukraine army at north and southern flank at Charkiw has inflicted high casualties among Russian army members. 600 per day. The highest number of casualties ever. 10,000 Russian soldiers luckily managed to escape the encirclement, fleeing eastwards over Oskil river toward Russia.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569006377107963906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569007063912665096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569016132689973249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569016314202669057


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569014074960142337


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russian soldiers 'literally running' for their lives as chain of command collapses​








Exclusive: Russian soldiers 'literally running' for their lives as chain of command collapses


Ukraine intelligence unit fighters tell The Telegraph they are struggling to deal with the mountains of equipment left behind after rout




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

For the first time since war started Russia started targeting Ukrainian civilian infrastructure to force Ukrainians to flee to the West for a better life.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569017979731574785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569015539703455747

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569013046424608769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569014155423920131


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568899264650280961
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568887051327504386
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568887056822042626
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568887483093422080
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568901256038567938


An Ukrainian friend of mine just made a joke in an online convo we had around 2 hours ago.

"Looks like the Russian want to compete with the American for the #1 spot of Foreign Military aide in Ukraine, seeing they just donated around a brigade worth of Armour Vehicle to us (The Ukrainian)"

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## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The main focus has always been Kherson. Kherson is vital to Crimea's water supply via the Dnipr. In fact, it can be said the rationale for starting the war in the first place is water.
> 
> That is why there was a feint assault on Kiev to draw Ukrainian army away from Kherson.


So now, the narration is, that Kherson was the main target. I though it was denazification and multipolar world, or something ?

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## Ali_Baba

FuturePAF said:


> So what was the operation that started this shift back? Did the Russians just exhaust themselves or did they hit some real barrier that bogged them down enough for the Ukrainians to rally and push the Russians back?



"because the Kremlin refuses to label its war in Ukraine as such, Moscow can mobilise limited additional resources." .... Russia is trapped in its own lies !!!!!

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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569012717796691969
Russian military column destroyed.

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> So what was the operation that started this shift back? Did the Russians just exhaust themselves or did they hit some real barrier that bogged them down enough for the Ukrainians to rally and push the Russians back?


This is a very standard Probe and Exploit attacks. Starting on the 8th of September. 

Ukrainian probably have heard or have intel about occupied territories inside and decided to send a probing force and test the line. Russian has been thinning out their unit inside Occupied East and move them south to help defend Kherson. 

When the first probing force did not meet any resistance on Balakliya, the Ukrainian force started to explore surrounding area. Then on the next 2 days open up enough fronts to push Russian out of the way, thus taking so much ground.


----------



## FuturePAF

Ali_Baba said:


> "because the Kremlin refuses to label its war in Ukraine as such, Moscow can mobilise limited additional resources." .... Russia is trapped in its own lies !!!!!


So they exhausted the resources they had set aside for this operation. I would have suspected it also had something to do with the natural barriers in the south, but attrition is probably their number one downfall. Now they need ammo from Iran and North Korea.

For the US, it’s better if this conflict goes on for a few years till the Russian military and its partners have exhausted their military supplies and deal with them as as weaker states.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568990523616071681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568985785176571913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568987226268114946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568988977075736576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568988774742491141


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569022767131131904

Looks like clearing of Japanese bunkers in WW2. The Russians should have stayed home.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569023945218707456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569025442153172992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569025987760865283


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569022767131131904


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569014155423920131

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569019974626189312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569017979731574785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569025442153172992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569025987760865283

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569020574139322368

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569002874872672256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569006833599225862

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569009666612695040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569013204541374464


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569030630251569155

Holy s**t it’s an M1 Abrams…..What the

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## RoadAmerica

oberschlesier said:


> So now, the narration is, that Kherson was the main target. I though it was denazification and multipolar world, or something ?


He’s either brain dead or 12, either way he still hasn’t learn to just keep quiet


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569035292463759360

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569032236778901506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569033255071932416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569026881734774789

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## mulj

Logical but desperate attacks on energy infrastructure by russians, probably it will follow with attacks on other civilian imfrastructure to undermine moral of population and make it more difficult for cvilian institutions to support war efforts but it will create opposite effect even more people would like to join army and considering how western public is particulary sensitive towards ukraininan plight (hipocrisy i know, to prevent possible replies), it will result in even bigger support and supply.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569042669283807235


mulj said:


> Logical but desperate attacks on energy infrastructure by russians, probably it will follow with attacks on other civilian imfrastructure to undermine moral of population and make it more difficult for cvilian institutions to support war efforts but it will create opposite effect even more people would like to join army and considering how western public is particulary sensitive towards ukraininan plight (hipocrisy i know, to prevent possible replies), it will result in even bigger support and supply.



It'll cause millions of refugees flooding into the West. Ukraine losing millions of people within a short time span gives Russia the decisive man power advantage it needs to take Bakhmut city.

It is the West that started the war by having Ukraine join NATO. It is the war the West wanted. So don't complain about it and fight.


----------



## mulj

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569042669283807235
> 
> 
> It'll cause millions of refugees flooding into the West. Ukraine losing millions of people within a short time span gives Russia the decisive man power advantage it needs to take Bakhmut city.
> 
> It is the West that started the war by having Ukraine join NATO. It is the war the West wanted. So don't complain about it and fight.


You will go on ignore, do not have time for your stupid remarks.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569042389339373568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569042106764722178


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569043966347169794


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569042031971819520

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## aziqbal

seems like Russia is losing ground and losing ground fast 

they were held up at Bukhmut-Soldedar-Seversk lines for 3 months and never really took any of the towns 

and now they started losing ground 

I wonder how this will end


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Stfu



@waz @The Eagle 

@RoadAmerica doing personal attacks against another member.



aziqbal said:


> seems like Russia is losing ground and losing ground fast
> 
> they were held up at Bukhmut-Soldedar-Seversk lines for 3 months and never really took any of the towns
> 
> and now they started losing ground
> 
> I wonder how this will end



It is not the beginning of the end. It is the end of the beginning.

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## zartosht

Looks like one side (Russia) is fighting the war on military principles and logic.

while the other side (nato) is fighting an all out propaganda war with 0 regard for military logic, or the lives of ukie soldiers.

It should be noted that literally until the last day of surrender, German army was conducting offensives (even succesful ones) right until the end. 

An offensive against an enemy that has the overwhelming advantage in firepower is beyond stupid. You are sacrificing your absolute best men, to capture a couple of villages, to justify ukies recieving more nato aid at a time where nato is struggling to keep the lights/heat on for their own citizens...

This fits perfectly into the Russian elastic defense plans. Instead of facing these highly trained ukie troops in a defensive posture where Russia has to grind them out. They can slaughter them en-mass in open fields with Artillery death zones. The ukies are absolutely killing their military right now to capture a few villages for the cameras..

The impact of this stupid move will surely be felt as soon as their propaganda "offensive" fizzles out from too many ukies turning into natural fertilizer on the field.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569045698393346048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569047797499936774

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569048282155843585


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569023945218707456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569025442153172992
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569025987760865283


Such attacks by Russia on civil infrastructures are act of terror, coward, against international laws, against war conducts. That won’t change anything on the battlefields.

Also, when light goes off in Donbas then the separatists will sit in the darkness.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569057880027832327

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569058662869516289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569059447284142080

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## Viet

Ukraine army approaching Donbas, Luhansk. “the people’s republics”.
Leaflets calling on the separatists to surrender.









Ukrainians fire projectiles with leaflets calling on Russians to surrender


Ukrainian Armed Forces are also conducting another kind of counteroffensive: a propaganda one.




tvpworld.com

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## dBSPL

Electricity is completely gone in the east of the Dnieper and in the south of Ukraine, all critical targets are hit by cruise missiles, there are explosions in Kharkov, Poltava, Dnepropetrovsk and Odessa.

Russians back


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dBSPL said:


> Electricity is completely gone in the east of the Dnieper and in the south of Ukraine, all critical targets are hit by cruise missiles, there are explosions in Kharkov, Poltava, Dnepropetrovsk and Odessa.
> 
> Russians back



Gloves are off. From now on civilian infrastructure are fair game. To be fair, Ukrainians started it by targeting the Kherson bridge.



Viet said:


> Ukraine army approaching Donbas, Luhansk. “the people’s republics”.
> Leaflets calling on the separatists to surrender.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians fire projectiles with leaflets calling on Russians to surrender
> 
> 
> Ukrainian Armed Forces are also conducting another kind of counteroffensive: a propaganda one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tvpworld.com



Rebels are pretty hardcore and have 8 years of battle experience. They are not so easy for Ukrainian army to fight.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> @waz @The Eagle
> 
> @RoadAmerica doing personal attacks against another member.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the beginning of the end. It is the end of the beginning.



Good give me my warning.
Apparently there’s no repercussions for posting the same bs over and over and over.
Get a clue and grow up.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569061023138852865


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I'm not pro Russian. I'm simply pro war. I like forever war. I am interested in military hardware.



I am also pro-war.

This is the reason I support the US.

They start a war every year without exception.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Forpost drone armed with 4 missiles

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

ziaulislam said:


> I have no idea what Russia is planning here.
> 
> Are they planning to take all Ukraine? Don't think so I don't see the effort or declaration of full war
> 
> Are they planning to take donbass..don't see that there isn't a focus push on that.
> 
> IMO, they should have just planned for donbass



Russians did not have any clear plan.

Russia just thought the it will be a cake walk.

Russia did not under estimate Ukraine but Russia under estimated the power of the US & NATO.

Russians assumed that EU and NATO powers like Germany and Turkiye to remain neutral but they did not.

No Country/leader who challenged the US dollar survived.

Be it Saddam/Iraq, Be it Gaddafi/Libya or Be it Putin/Russia.

Russia will lose this war and get balkanized.

China will just reamin silent as it will get Eastern Russia once Russia gets balkanized.

Putin will be killed or commit suicide like Hilter.

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## The SC

Surprising number of Ukrainian losses in men..up to 30 000 in 10 days!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russians did not have any clear plan.
> 
> Russia just thought the it will be a cake walk.
> 
> Russia did not under estimate Ukraine but Russia under estimated the power of the US & NATO.
> 
> Russians assumed that EU and NATO powers like Germany and Turkiye to remain neutral but they did not.
> 
> No Country/leader who challenged the US dollar survived.
> 
> Be it Saddam/Iraq, Be it Gaddafi/Libya or Be it Putin/Russia.
> 
> Russia will lose this war and get balkanized.
> 
> China will just reamin silent as it will get Eastern Russia once Russia gets balkanized.
> 
> Putin will be killed or commit suicide like Hilter.



There's no way a country of 30 million people can invade a country of 150 million people, not even with HIMARS rockets artillery.


----------



## khansaheeb

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568684239587082240Morales are high. Next stop is Belgorod.
> 
> Ukrainian army vehicle following the track of Russian tanks.


Ukrainians are getting so excited that their goal is now: The Russian city of- Volgograd



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> There's no way a country of 30 million people can invade a country of 150 million people, not even with HIMARS rockets artillery.


Try telling that to the Israelis.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> I am also pro-war.
> 
> This is the reason I support the US.
> 
> They start a war every year without exception.



Only while white people are majority. Once the US is white minority it turns like Mexico or Brazil. Cannot fight.



khansaheeb said:


> Try telling that to the Israelis.



Israel was never able to invade Egypt or Syria even after stopping their invasion force.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569066201686351873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569057753792118784

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Only while white people are majority. Once the US is white minority it turns like Mexico or Brazil. Cannot fight.



White people are verry efficient.

British ruled the Indian subcontinent with only 3000 white soldiers. 

Most of the British police and army was made up by the people in the subcontinent.

Most of the US military is also made up of latinos and blacks.

Latinos get Greencard if they serve in the US Army.

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## merzifonlu

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russians assumed that EU and NATO powers like Germany and Turkiye to remain neutral but they did not.


Türkiye and Germany and even France, they used all kinds of diplomacy to prevent war. But Putin was not convinced. This is not about the dollar. You cannot occupy people who do not want to live with you and do not dream of a common future with you. This is basically about that!

Of course, if you make such mistakes, your enemies will also take advantage of it. Also, if we talk specifically about Türkiye, Russia has put obstacles to us at every opportunity. Maybe we wanted Russians to stumble, who knows.


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## NotSure

zartosht said:


> Looks like one side (Russia) is fighting the war on military principles and logic.
> 
> while the other side (nato) is fighting an all out propaganda war with 0 regard for military logic, or the lives of ukie soldiers.
> 
> It should be noted that literally until the last day of surrender, German army was conducting offensives (even succesful ones) right until the end.
> 
> An offensive against an enemy that has the overwhelming advantage in firepower is beyond stupid. You are sacrificing your absolute best men, to capture a couple of villages, to justify ukies recieving more nato aid at a time where nato is struggling to keep the lights/heat on for their own citizens...
> 
> This fits perfectly into the Russian elastic defense plans. Instead of facing these highly trained ukie troops in a defensive posture where Russia has to grind them out. They can slaughter them en-mass in open fields with Artillery death zones. The ukies are absolutely killing their military right now to capture a few villages for the cameras..
> 
> The impact of this stupid move will surely be felt as soon as their propaganda "offensive" fizzles out from too many ukies turning into natural fertilizer on the field.



There are 2-3 points. The first one is the propaganda war, you have mentioned. The other one is the psychosis the american general staff has. They lost the 20 year (!) war in Afghanistan, they have more or less lost the war against the 3. class army of Iraq.

So on the one hand they have a hubris of epic proportions beeing the gratest military on the planet, on the other hand they haven't won a single war since Korea. What a cognitive dissonance. So now they have to show of, no matter what. Look only at our "military man" and all the other nato NPCs here, how they constantly have to larp the military experts.

The 3. point is, they hate the Russians on a such level, this is a mental illness on it's own. They literally would fight to the last Ukrainian, like Lindsey Graham said.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

merzifonlu said:


> Türkiye and Germany and even France, they used all kinds of diplomacy to prevent war. But Putin was not convinced.



The war stops immediately as soon as Kiev army stop shelling Donbas civilians.


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## NotSure

dBSPL said:


> Electricity is completely gone in the east of the Dnieper and in the south of Ukraine, all critical targets are hit by cruise missiles, there are explosions in Kharkov, Poltava, Dnepropetrovsk and Odessa.
> 
> Russians back


Seems like he was correct. It hope so. Russia has to stop playing nice. It is important, to neutralise the nato "military men" in Kiev with precision strikes. They are controlling the ukrainian armed forces.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

merzifonlu said:


> Türkiye and Germany and even France, they used all kinds of diplomacy to prevent war. But Putin was not convinced. This is not about the dollar. You cannot occupy people who do not want to live with you and do not dream of a common future with you. This is basically about that!
> 
> Of course, if you make such mistakes, your enemies will also take advantage of it. Also, if we talk specifically about Türkiye, Russia has put obstacles to us at every opportunity. Maybe we wanted Russians to stumble, who knows.



I support our Turkish and Ukranian brothers.

Let Putin and Russia die.

Balkanization of Russia is good for Pakistan, Turkiye and China.

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## MeFishToo

NotSure said:


> Seems like he was correct. It hope so. Russia has to stop playing nice. It is important, to neutralise the nato "military men" in Kiev with precision strikes. They are controlling the ukrainian armed forces.


It will just lead to more anti air systems donated to Ukraine. Russia cant prevent the Ukrainian advancing by targeting civilian infrastructure with some cruise missiles. Its just an act of desperation.

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## merzifonlu

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Balkanization of Russia is good for Pakistan, Turkiye and China.


No no no, The balkanization not fine for ANYBODY! Huuuge numbers of immigrants fill your country. This is HUGE disaster. In addition, the Balkanization process creates very productive resources for organizations such as ISIS. It is extremely dangerous.


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## NotSure

MeFishToo said:


> It will just lead to more anti air systems donated to Ukraine. Russia cant prevent the Ukrainian advancing by targeting civilian infrastructure with some cruise missiles. Its just an act of desperation.


For the beginning the west need to have these systems, beeing able to intercept slow Russian cruise missiles. Not even talking about things like P-800 or Iskander/Kinzhal ...


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## RoadAmerica

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> White people are verry efficient.
> 
> British ruled the Indian subcontinent with only 3000 white soldiers.
> 
> Most of the British police and army was made up by the people in the subcontinent.
> 
> Most of the US military is also made up of latinos and blacks.
> 
> Latinos get Greencard if they serve in the US Army.


Um no actually, almost 70% of active US military men are white.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The war stops immediately as soon as Kiev army stop shelling Donbas civilians.


Oh boy you haven’t used that bs line for at least 10 pages


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569079250246062080
Over 100 losses for Russia today. Russian losses are now at 5,800 for the war

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569080503239598081

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## MeFishToo

NotSure said:


> For the beginning the west need to have these systems, beeing able to intercept slow Russian cruise missiles. Not even talking about things like P-800 or Iskander/Kinzhal ...


Lets just say Russia holds all those mighty missiles they like to talk about. How are they going to prevent the Ukrainians advancing with the support of the west? How are those missiles going to help Russia invade a country using a few hundred thousend soldiers?
Those missile attacks are nothing but revenge. It changes nothing.


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## zartosht

Its hilarious how the same clowns that were downplaying unchecked Russian gains for months, are now celebrating the recapture of a tiny fraction of it

But now that the ukies are slaughtering their best men in suicide missions to desperately re-capture a couple of villages (a tiny fraction of territory lost).

those same clowns are jumping up and down thinking ukies will drive into Russia proper. Lol.

Its almost laughable the childish imagination of some lil kids here. Reality is going to be brutally harsh for them in a couple of weeks when the smoke from this “offensive” settles

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## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> Its hilarious how the same clowns that were downplaying unchecked Russian gains for months, are now celebrating the recapture of a tiny fraction of it
> 
> But now that the ukies are slaughtering their best men in suicide missions to desperately re-capture a couple of villages (a tiny fraction of territory lost).
> 
> those same clowns are jumping up and down thinking ukies will drive into Russia proper. Lol.
> 
> Its almost laughable the childish imagination of some lil kids here. Reality is going to be brutally harsh for them in a couple of weeks when the smoke from this “offensive” settles


Is this youngpeng pt2? 
Slaughtering their best men lol.
How’s the Russian economy?

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## ziaulislam

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> White people are verry efficient.
> 
> British ruled the Indian subcontinent with only 3000 white soldiers.
> 
> Most of the British police and army was made up by the people in the subcontinent.
> 
> Most of the US military is also made up of latinos and blacks.
> 
> Latinos get Greencard if they serve in the US Army.


Because Indians Arabs had no national pride.

Don't confuse that with Chinese or Russians.

You will be ignorant if you do so


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## zartosht

RoadAmerica said:


> Is this youngpeng pt2?
> Slaughtering their best men lol.
> How’s the Russian economy?



Much better then the EU economy as a matter of fact. The hit to the living standards of the average Russian pre-war to now is far less then the a average westerner

While official data in the west has their inflation at 10%. Critical things that people actually need daily to survive like energy and food have seen inflation over 100%. This is crippling the average westerner, and winter is fast coming.

Ps. If your account is 3 months old and youve done. Nothing but spam pro nato propaganda for every single one of your posts (almost as if your on a mission) i wouldnt pull the seniority/ questioning integrity card if i were you

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## ziaulislam

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569080503239598081


That's the problem.

Putin hasn't been serious..

He should have been in britzg mode and should have taken donbass fast with rest of movements as feints.

But no he has been prolonging this into a useless war



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The main focus has always been Kherson. Kherson is vital to Crimea's water supply via the Dnipr. In fact, it can be said the rationale for starting the war in the first place is water.
> 
> That is why there was a feint assault on Kiev to draw Ukrainian army away from Kherson.


So you're telling me Russia went to war spend billions and billions of dollars just because it couldn't set up a few dieselination plants???
Honestly that's crazy
It's not crazy it's ridiculous
Pick up a map and see the size of Crimea
500 million dollars desalination plant is more than enough

Crimea population is just 2 million


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ziaulislam said:


> So you're telling me Russia went to war spend billions and billions of dollars just because it couldn't set up a few dieselination plants???



Desalination plants is not enough water for agriculture. That's why Israel had to invade and annex Golan Heights to have enough water for agriculture.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569087368119853056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569084976120971264

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## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> Much better then the EU economy as a matter of fact. The hit to the living standards of the average Russian pre-war to now is far less then the a average westerner
> 
> While official data in the west has their inflation at 10%. Critical things that people actually need daily to survive like energy and food have seen inflation over 100%. This is crippling the average westerner, and winter is fast coming.
> 
> Ps. If your account is 3 months old and youve done. Nothing but spam pro nato propaganda for every single one of your posts (almost as if your on a mission) i wouldnt pull the seniority/ questioning integrity card if i were you


Completely false, you are fake news!

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## F-22Raptor

zartosht said:


> Its hilarious how the same clowns that were downplaying unchecked Russian gains for months, are now celebrating the recapture of a tiny fraction of it
> 
> But now that the ukies are slaughtering their best men in suicide missions to desperately re-capture a couple of villages (a tiny fraction of territory lost).
> 
> those same clowns are jumping up and down thinking ukies will drive into Russia proper. Lol.
> 
> Its almost laughable the childish imagination of some lil kids here. Reality is going to be brutally harsh for them in a couple of weeks when the smoke from this “offensive” settles



Since September 1, Russia has lost more than 400 pieces of armor and equipment and lost the entire Kharkiv Oblast and your here talking about how the Ukrainians are getting slaughtered. The copium must be strong. What a 🤡.

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## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> Much better then the EU economy as a matter of fact. The hit to the living standards of the average Russian pre-war to now is far less then the a average westerner
> 
> While official data in the west has their inflation at 10%. Critical things that people actually need daily to survive like energy and food have seen inflation over 100%. This is crippling the average westerner, and winter is fast coming.
> 
> Ps. If your account is 3 months old and youve done. Nothing but spam pro nato propaganda for every single one of your posts (almost as if your on a mission) i wouldnt pull the seniority/ questioning integrity card if i were you


Oh and been lurking these formula for over 10 years but the last straw of me being quiet was people like you spreading fake news, so fake a 3 year old can see thru it.
Back to the Russian economy, it will be toast before the end of the year. 
Educate yourself and do some research

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569091124232323079

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569087352638930944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569093949951713286

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569082366735384577

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568987084983250946
HIMARS has been the STAR weapon in Ukraine

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569085405013712896


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568987084983250946
> HIMARS has been the STAR weapon in Ukraine



HIMARS is crap compared to Tornado-S and Iskander.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569101284405383170

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## Wood



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Moscow replenished its losses, and uses more attack helos in Ukraine


Moscow has managed to replenish its losses and is currently using more attack helicopters in Ukraine. According to Yuriy Ignat, Russia operates 360 helicopters.




bulgarianmilitary.com


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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569101284405383170


That is basically the different between Ukrainian and Russian troop. Ukraine can rotate their troop, while Russian Troop being locked in combat, they can't.

Latest intelligence report suggested that the current Counter Offensive (Both Kherson and Kharkiv) are done by 3 Battlegroup (Around 3 divisions of men, or 10 Brigade, which is around 30,000-40,000) Those troop can be constantly rotated and put in the rear (like Lviv or Kyiv) or even on leave in EU, that give them time to recharge and get back to the battlefield.

On the other hand, Russia force is moving backward across the board, which mean their "rear" troop is now on the frontline, the only way for them to go is basically go back to Russia. and they are going need all their troop to hold the line.

That would amplify the moral problem, I mean, more than likely once those troop were really rotated back to Russia, there are high chance they will desert. If they went back to Russia, they are not coming back.

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## aviator_fan

MultaniGuy said:


> As a Pakistani Muslim I could not care about this conflict.
> 
> Let the Europeans fight it out amongst themselves.
> 
> Now it is our turn to say that.


valid point but it burns us indirectly. Food costs more. Less disposable money to help flood crisis.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese single men are emigrating to Russia en mass. Humans have more men than women. There are 105 males born for every 100 females. Single men are used up in war. This is the biological nature of the human species.
> 
> Do you know why there are 105 males born for every 100 females? Because humans are bred for war. War is human nature. Do not deny your nature.


This is not the 1800s where males are bred for war. According to your earlier post China never attacks anybody so why have more men. May be this is what your Govt tells you. Read past your sensors and get basic knowledge on the world.

A few countries the ratio is like China, but the rest of the world the ratio is much more even in the era of 2020, not 1850. See here: https://statisticstimes.com/demographics/countries-by-sex-ratio.php

As for people moving from China to Russia: lets see how your Russian brothers welcome you. This is the first time any body would have immigrated to Russia. Will you be leading the pack?

​

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## aviator_fan

Ali_Baba said:


> Russian soldiers 'literally running' for their lives as chain of command collapses​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exclusive: Russian soldiers 'literally running' for their lives as chain of command collapses
> 
> 
> Ukraine intelligence unit fighters tell The Telegraph they are struggling to deal with the mountains of equipment left behind after rout
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk


as
Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen *says, each will be replaced with a Chinese immigrant because they have so much more experience in combat over the last 200 years..*​


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569042669283807235
> 
> 
> It'll cause millions of refugees flooding into the West. Ukraine losing millions of people within a short time span gives Russia the decisive man power advantage it needs to take Bakhmut city.
> 
> It is the West that started the war by having Ukraine join NATO. It is the war the West wanted. So don't complain about it and fight.


Western European has handled these refugees pretty well. And war is accomplishing pretty well in humiliating Russia thanks to ferociousness of Ukrainians. Imagine if in the 30s this is how China had resisted the Japanese what the world would be like.

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> valid point but it burns us indirectly. Food costs more. Less disposable money to help flood crisis.


Out of curiosity. How much more food cost you guys because of this war?

For us, not much has changed. In fact some food price has gone down since 2021. The only thing I notice had gone up is Beef Product, went from $11-$12 a kilo to now $15-$16 a kilo, but then I hardly think this is about Ukrainian war as Australia produce world class beef ourself, pretty sure those weren't affecting how our beef stock, Pork went down from $10 to $8 per kilo (I know you guys don't eat pork, this is just for reference) Chicken stays the same around $4 or $5 per kilo for Drumstick or $9 for fillet. 

Rice price didn't change much, but then I most buy bulk when they are on sale, and they are still $20 per 10 kg when I buy them. Oil maybe up 50 cents IIRC, they were 3.49 before, now 3.99 per liter. Sugar went up 10 to 20 cents per kilo, it was 1.5 in 2021 and 1.7 per kilo now. Salt stays almost the same ar=t around $2 per kilo.

Probably the thing that hit us most is pet food. A bag of Cat food went from 19.99 per 2.5kg to 22.50 per 2.5 kg. And a can of 85 gram can pet food wet from 1.60 to 2.30 That is 15% increase for the dry food, and 30% increase for the can food......

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> There's no way a country of 30 million people can invade a country of 150 million people, not even with HIMARS rockets artillery.


Balkanization does not mean conquest: it means fragmentation of country. Can occur because of internal divisions/instability. Not by direct invasion

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569025444405444618

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Western European has handled these refugees pretty well. And war is accomplishing pretty well in humiliating Russia thanks to ferociousness of Ukrainians. Imagine if in the 30s this is how China had resisted the Japanese what the world would be like.



This is genocide through decades. You think those soldiers want to fight? They don't. Once they are released from the army they come to Canada. Ukraine's population has been falling for decades since USSR broke up in 1991.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese are not warmongers. The only lands Chinese claim are Taiwan and possibly Senkaku.


Know that this forum has members that are a bit more worldly than what your narrow minded view of history brings. Everytime you make a blanket statement like this (Chinese are peaceful, or superhuman), you will be corrected and you lose credibility.

If Chinese are not warmongers: did you forget annexation of Tibet in 1951? And attack on Vietnam because of its actions on Khmer Rouge. 

These posts of yours are distraction from what this thread is about. When I correct your misstated facts because of the restrictions in school through which you learned history, it is not because i don't like China. It is to set the record straight. 

China is no less evil than other countries. Countries project power by occupying/starting wars. Some they win, some not. Everybody does that/has done that/and will continue to do so. So don't go around saying as if China is some exception to the rule.



F-22Raptor said:


> Since September 1, Russia has lost more than 400 pieces of armor and equipment and lost the entire Kharkiv Oblast and your here talking about how the Ukrainians are getting slaughtered. The copium must be strong. What a 🤡.


I have something better on an earlier post somebody wrote: 'oh russia lost Kharkiv because it wasn't important'. Why put any troops and armor there if it wasn't important.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> This is genocide through decades. You think those soldiers want to fight? They don't. Once they are released from the army they come to Canada. Ukraine's population has been falling for decades since USSR broke up in 1991.


Yes and so have Russians and so have Chinese. But both managing to survive. Chinese educated elite still migrating to west, but it hasn't collapsed China. And you yourself said they will go to Russia next to offset Russia's male/female ratio of population (they have fewer men then women)


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> If Chinese are not warmongers: did you forget annexation of Tibet in 1951?



Tibet has been Chinese land and they simply took back it.









Qing dynasty - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Republic of China (1912–1949) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## PakAlp

Difficult to defend Russia. They're panicking.










Kadyrov slams Russian army’s performance after Ukraine losses


Chechen leader and Putin ally dismisses the loss of Izyum, but concedes the campaign is not going to plan.




www.aljazeera.com













Russia ‘fires army commander after just 16 days’ amid major losses in Kharkiv


Ukraine says a ‘series of defeats’ inflicted by its armed forces led to the change in leadership




www.independent.co.uk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569052453433233408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569074240070057988

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569044744843534336

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Tibet has been Chinese land and they simply took back it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qing dynasty - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Republic of China (1912–1949) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Yes since 1400s they were independent and you made my point that you took it in a war which means war mongering.

Vietnam was never part of China, why interfere there. Nobody is holier in this regard. This is what big countries do, or countries that think they should be big. Saudis/UAE did it in Yemen. US/NATO we know. USSR Afghanistan and list is long and distinguished and goes back in history

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Pretty sure Post War Ukraine WILL have a lot of American Equipment floating around, it would be mostly likely on US list, they are cheap, they are outdated for the US but they can pack a lot of power.


Wish we can give them Blackhawk helos. Would help with operations that helos are needed for. Don't think Ukraine has enough helos even those provided by NATO countries with Russian made ones including the U.S. 



jhungary said:


> On the other hand, would anyone want to piss off Ukraine after this war is over??
> 
> Kherson is different than Kharkiv, the Ukrainian was using a textbook probing and exploit attack in Kharkiv, they can do that because Russian hollow out most of their troop in Kharkiv and send them to Kherson. Notice that they gradually exploit the Russian line by moving and overlapping each other. That is a standard exploiting attack. Kherson on the other hand, have to be taken by brute force, as I said, I don't think Russian position is tenable in Kherson with all the bridges are blown, now with Kharkiv gone, it will severely limited Russian logistic option. They probably could not hold out until winter.
> 
> But then they can't do what they do in Kharkiv in Kherson, because Russian has dug in, you need to dislodge their position methodically. Unless Russia is really incompetent, which after Kharkiv, I am not too sure the competence of Russian troop anymore.



Well with any breach of the frontlines with tanks and bmps and sudden wave of MRAPS and Humvess and other vehicles that can cause chaos behind the lines while spreading out and fast, still worth sending in those Humvees with the number you mentioned and let the Ukrainians do whatever they wish with them.



jhungary said:


> They can, but whether or not they will is another problem, 50 is similar to 100, If US don't want to give them that much, that's because 50 or 100 HIMARS is very powerful as shown in this war. What 16 can do, now try to imagine what 50 can do? Maybe they will do something on HIMARS on FMS later on? But I wouldn't think the US will give them anymore.



50 HIMARs would be too powerful in the eyes of the Biden Administration huh? That would be hilarious! Treating them like handing over nukes. Not sure why they can't give them 25 more considering they are ramping production of the vehicles to make up for the donated vehicles not to mention exporting them to other countries like Taiwan who wanted them early and Poland who wants 500!



jhungary said:


> With Kupiansk and Izyum gone, they are going to exploit Lyman and then Eastward, Lyman is already said to be about to fall, there are no way Russia can defend Lyman now if the Ukrainian also push from Sloviansk, they would envelope Lyman in 3 sides, Once Lyman is gone, that will threaten Russian line of Communication between LNR pre-2014 territories and new Occupied land, there are meaningful supply in pre-2014 LNR held territories and attacking them would be hard, but pre-2014 Ukrainian held territories would be another matter. There are no defensive lines for Siveredonetsk and Lysychansk, there are no defence line in Popasna, which mean if Ukraine attack now, most likely the Russian have to fall back to Pre-2014 LNR position to have anything defendable.
> 
> So yes, I would imagine Ukraine will take a few days break taking control and consolidate the gain they made, and then breakout Northward from Kharkiv and Eastward toward rest of Luhansk.
> 
> Another thing I want to say is now the entire Russian operation was supplied by Kerch Strait and Bridge, I am more than certain Ukraine is going to do something to that Bridge in Kerch Strait.


True, not massive defensive lines in those areas you mentioned. Also I think the Russians are pretty much panicking right now even in some parts of Luhansk that they can't coordinate. Probably send in few recon units and light forces to ambush or take some villages or towns while other forces are still consolidating in Kharkiv region. And Luhansk is pretty vulnerable especially dealing with the current Ukrainian military at full war instead of pre war Ukrainian military when they didn't have advanced weaponry and massive forces along with DNR/LNR who have been killed or wounded or MIA or fled to Russia or are operating in another area far from Donbas region.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> That is basically the different between Ukrainian and Russian troop. Ukraine can rotate their troop, while Russian Troop being locked in combat, they can't.
> 
> Latest intelligence report suggested that the current Counter Offensive (Both Kherson and Kharkiv) are done by 3 Battlegroup (Around 3 divisions of men, or 10 Brigade, which is around 30,000-40,000) Those troop can be constantly rotated and put in the rear (like Lviv or Kyiv) or even on leave in EU, that give them time to recharge and get back to the battlefield.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia force is moving backward across the board, which mean their "rear" troop is now on the frontline, the only way for them to go is basically go back to Russia. and they are going need all their troop to hold the line.
> 
> That would amplify the moral problem, I mean, more than likely once those troop were really rotated back to Russia, there are high chance they will desert. If they went back to Russia, they are not coming back.


Think most of their troops have been there since the beginning besides the ones that have been sent afterwards as the war goes on.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Gloves are off. From now on civilian infrastructure are fair game. To be fair, Ukrainians started it by targeting the Kherson bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> Rebels are pretty hardcore and have 8 years of battle experience. They are not so easy for Ukrainian army to fight.


That’s reaction of a loser.
How russians want to gain respect from other countries when they act in such way.

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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Parade Line Army = PLA . That is what you gots.
> 
> Of course, it is still too early to say that the Ukrainians will win. Poutine can still turn the war into his favor but that will take another large bite out of Russia's weakened economy, and your China will do nothing to help if it come to that because China cannot afford to dirty up those parade uniforms. All these talk about how Russia and China will take over the world, now looks dim, ain't it? Mocking the PLA's pretty boys and girls in their parade uniforms seems about right. Unlike Viet Nam, China will not send even a few cooks to Russia.
> 
> What do you think a weakened Russia _sans_ Poutine will do? How about make peace with the West and leaving China out in the cold? China, all alone again. Russia might even have diplomatic relations with Taiwan just to piss you off.
> 
> Indeed, Parade Line Army sounds about right.



Name-calling doesn't stop you guys from panicking and fear us. China threat this and China threat that. It seems stronk USA is so afraid of PLA. We are just a weak 3rd world country only mate. Nothing to worry about. I am just here to see fanatically democrazy cheerleading natards here thinking Russia is gonna lose the war. Trust me, in the end the war wil escalate and the use of even more lethal weapons will be introduced, US will fight till the last Ukrainian. The ones who suffer are Ukrainians and Europeans freezing their balls. Lol

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569206707540365314

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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> Its hilarious how the same clowns that were downplaying unchecked Russian gains for months, are now celebrating the recapture of a tiny fraction of it


Wrong. Initial russian gains were large. After the defeat in Kiev, the donbass campaign started to slow down over time to a complete crawl. 
The kharkiv territory they just lost in 10 days took them 3+months to take….

And its the breaking of their frontlines and reversal of the momentum that is important. If russian front collapses, even the villagers can retake area which snowballs the speed of liberation. 


zartosht said:


> But now that the ukies are slaughtering their best men in suicide missions to desperately re-capture a couple of villages (a tiny fraction of territory lost).


they run into resistance, but on many fronts it has been an easy rout of the enemy. 

This is also seen in the many many many proven material losses of russia, vs few visual “defeats” of ukranian pushes. 

Russia is now the second most donor of military equipment to ukraine after USA


zartosht said:


> those same clowns are jumping up and down thinking ukies will drive into Russia proper. Lol.


Not really. Dont give putin an excuse to go full mobilization. Humiliate him in ukraine till he gets dropped from a window


zartosht said:


> Its almost laughable the childish imagination of some lil kids here. Reality is going to be brutally harsh for them in a couple of weeks when the smoke from this “offensive” settles


You have been consistently wrong on this 3 day special operation. And your wrong again. Talking about “imagination” hahahaha. 

In couple a weeks, i expect donbass or kherson to be heavily pressed for the russians.

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Name-calling doesn't stop you guys from panicking and fear us. China threat this and China threat that. It seems stronk USA is so afraid of PLA. We are just a weak 3rd world country only mate. Nothing to worry about. I am just here to see fanatically democrazy cheerleading natards here thinking Russia is gonna lose the war. Trust me, in the end the war wil escalate and the use of even more lethal weapons will be introduced, US will fight till the last Ukrainian. The ones who suffer are Ukrainians and Europeans freezing their balls. Lol


Panic and fear? Hardly. Is China a military threat to US? I guess China's strategy is to keep out of wars thereby leaving the world wondering how lethal is the Parade Line Army (PLA) in a non-nuclear war. You guys mocked the US military despite our experience in wars, so why are you offended that I jabbed at your PLA for lack of the same? And yeah, we will see you posting responses containing Korea. 

Is it possible that the Party believe that the PLA is not ready for modern warfare despite all the shiny new toys China bought all these yrs? What if the US/NATO told Xi that if China actually fight with Russia for Ukraine, the US/NATO would get active and we would slaughter the PLA in Ukraine? You do not know and neither do I. But we both know such backdoor communication has happened before.

Back in the Cuban Missile Crisis, SAC CINC General Thomas Power ordered, on his own authority, Strategic Air Command (SAC) to DefCon 2. Then he ordered all SAC units to respond on open radio their combat status. He wanted the Soviets to actually intercept those open transmissions. Within 15 minutes, 75 B-52s reported readied to taxi and about 1400 more assorted bombers will be runway able in 30 min, 40 ICBMs readied to launch and 170 are under fueling status. The Soviets called in that back channel phone and offered negotiations. I am five9s certain Xi got that call and he backed off. He cannot afford to dirty up those pretty Parade Line Army (PLA) uniforms because he need them to glorify himself. Any blood on those uniforms will be that of his political enemies, not of the enemies of China.

So for you to tell us to 'trust' you regarding something you know nothing about, is hilarious. All those PLA soldiers, sailors, and airmen? At least they submitted themselves to a lifestyle that you wish you have the balls and spine to endure. In your case, as well as your fellow PDF Chinese members, being sofa soldiers are shameful but you guys are too clueless to know why. You are cheering for a side that your country is readied to abandon in a moment, and abandon with extreme distaste.

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## thetutle

Oldman1 said:


> 50 HIMARs would be too powerful in the eyes of the Biden Administration huh? That would be hilarious! Treating them like handing over nukes. Not sure why they can't give them 25 more considering they are ramping production of the vehicles to make up for the donated vehicles not to mention exporting them to other countries like Taiwan who wanted them early and Poland who wants 500!


Poland wants 500 HIMAR's? why? do they plan to conquer the world?


Han Patriot said:


> The ones who suffer are Ukrainians and Europeans freezing their balls. Lol



Have you been to europe? have you seen how people live there? obviously not if you think people are suffering and freezing.

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## thetutle

gambit said:


> So for you to tell us to 'trust' you regarding something you know nothing about, is hilarious. All those PLA soldiers, sailors, and airmen? At least they submitted themselves to a lifestyle that you wish you have the balls and spine to endure. In your case, as well as your fellow PDF Chinese members, being sofa soldiers are shameful but you guys are too clueless to know why. You are cheering for a side that your country is readied to abandon in a moment, and abandon with extreme distaste.



China is learning some very valuable lessons form this conflict and I think this is helping them understand what they are potentially up against. They probably wont move against Taiwan for at least 10 years if not more now that they see what the west is capable of. It would be very humiliating to see its own navy at the bottom of the ocean floor. As Russia is seeing. 

China is probably smart enough to abandon russia very quickly if the need arises. And that need will probably arise soon.

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## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569229402860552192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569210166570098688
This TOS-1 had a bad day it seems.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569231856620404737

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## thetutle

Russians hold no land west of the Oskin river. This is remarkable. This is a remarkable counteroffensive. simply remarkable.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569237360906309632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569243047782670337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569234194949181441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569230730970157056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569226721114877952
"oRgANiZeD ReGRoUpInG"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569247061765390336

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## Ali_Baba

thetutle said:


> Russians hold no land west of the Oskin river. This is remarkable. This is a remarkable counteroffensive. simply remarkable.



Crossing the Oskin river might will be an issue for now, Ukraine may well focus on Donesk and Kherson to break the land bridge to Crimea.

The offensive achieved its objective of increasing public morale and demonstrating to the west that Ukraine can successfully retake terrority.


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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569229402860552192
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569210166570098688
> This TOS-1 had a bad day it seems.
> 
> View attachment 878209


Finally some of those nasty things taken out. Hats off to ukranian trench soldiers having to endure those.

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Crossing the Oskin river might will be an issue for now, Ukraine may well focus on Donesk and Kherson to break the land bridge to Crimea.
> 
> The offensive achieved its objective of increasing public morale and demonstrating to the west that Ukraine can successfully retake terrority.


Crossing Oksil is not really an issue, if the Ukrainian have taken Kupiansk competely, then they are already on the Eastern Bank of Oksil. And when they took Lyman (If the Ukrainian had not already) the Ukrainian would have control of Northern and Southern Bank of Oksil river.

Lyman is next to fall (Again, if they had not already, as I have some source said that they already did) afterward, the Ukrainian would control the Oksil. The question is whether or not the Russian want to hold Lyman as long as possible so their retreating force can properly regroup, or forces holding Lyman is also in a general retreat?


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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Crossing the Oskin river might will be an issue for now, Ukraine may well focus on Donesk and Kherson to break the land bridge to Crimea.
> 
> The offensive achieved its objective of increasing public morale and demonstrating to the west that Ukraine can successfully retake terrority.


There are still Russian troops trapped in Charkiw, Ukraine army needs to rout them out first. Russia 3rd mechanized rifle division, and 20th army corps.
Once the region is secured the supplies to Russia troops at Donbas, Luhansk, Cherson will be cut off. They will sit like mouse in a trap.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Wish we can give them Blackhawk helos. Would help with operations that helos are needed for. Don't think Ukraine has enough helos even those provided by NATO countries with Russian made ones including the U.S.



Post war? Sure. Now? No.....

At this point Helicopter did not do much for Ukrainian, even tho Russia did not have air superiority, they can still take down those choppers with Su-25 or Su-30. At this point Helicopter is probably a liability rather than asset to the Ukrainian, because when you use them, that mean you need asset to protect them, that also mean you need asset to protect the area you use them with. Better stick with slick ground transport for quite movement for now. 


Oldman1 said:


> Well with any breach of the frontlines with tanks and bmps and sudden wave of MRAPS and Humvess and other vehicles that can cause chaos behind the lines while spreading out and fast, still worth sending in those Humvees with the number you mentioned and let the Ukrainians do whatever they wish with them.



Maybe they will? We don't know what the US is sending them next. But chances are not high. 

Bear in mind anything you send taking a seat on a C-17 literally, which mean you can either use the space to send in a few Humvees or a few Up Armoured MRAP or even M113. I would prefer the latter than Humvee now. 




Oldman1 said:


> 50 HIMARs would be too powerful in the eyes of the Biden Administration huh? That would be hilarious! Treating them like handing over nukes. Not sure why they can't give them 25 more considering they are ramping production of the vehicles to make up for the donated vehicles not to mention exporting them to other countries like Taiwan who wanted them early and Poland who wants 500!


500 is an insane amount, I don't think US State Dept will allow transfer of 500 HIMARS to Poland....

Nobody other than US and Romania (Which has 56 IIRC) have more than 50. 50 is a very potent number of platform being used. I also think Lockheed Land System can't make 500 in a short time. We gave them 50, which mean we will have to have that 50 back by buying them from LLS. That alone would make Lockheed Production line busy for the next few years....

IIRC we had approved sale for HIMARS to Taiwan in 2020. Probably 20 systems.





Oldman1 said:


> True, not massive defensive lines in those areas you mentioned. Also I think the Russians are pretty much panicking right now even in some parts of Luhansk that they can't coordinate. Probably send in few recon units and light forces to ambush or take some villages or towns while other forces are still consolidating in Kharkiv region. And Luhansk is pretty vulnerable especially dealing with the current Ukrainian military at full war instead of pre war Ukrainian military when they didn't have advanced weaponry and massive forces along with DNR/LNR who have been killed or wounded or MIA or fled to Russia or are operating in another area far from Donbas region.


Problem is, I don't see how Russian can hold on to East of Oksil river. 

The majority of the Russian force are either trapped when Izyum-Kupiansk line felt, or fighting in the south near Bakhmut and Siversky. The force that got away is not at all much, you are talking about a division worth or 10 BTG at most. That's nothing. Problem is, lacking defensive position, all they can do is to collect troop that on the way of their retreat, but then how many troops you can gather and mount a proper defence? Not much. Either Russia abandoned the entire Bakhmut and Siversky front and divert those solider to help defend East of Oksil, first of all, this will take time, you don't just disengage and redeploy? Second of all, doing that you basically expose another front the Ukrainian can exploit. Let's not forget how the Russian get into this mess at the begining, they hollow out people too much and when the Ukrainian probe the line, there are no response, and this counter offensive happened. 

The only thing I can think of is to send the newly Created 3rd Army 20k strong force to try to hold the Oksil front, but again, it take time to deploy and I am not sure it is any quicker to do them from Russia than from pulling troops from Siversky and Bakhmut? what's more, if and when Lyman felt, the Ukrainian are going to roll up from Lyman and Roll East from Kupiansk to competely encircle the Russian, don't forget they have freed up quite a lot of troop now Izyum is theirs and Kharkiv virtually broke the siege, they can spare more force than the original spearhead that make these advance. That's a dangerous game for Russian to play. You can send in the 3rd Army to try to make a different and gamble it will, but if not, then you just used your strategic reserve for nothing. 

On the other hand, if we say Russian had depleted their force and had to rely on Syria Volunteer and PMC, then DNR/LPR are probably at even more dire strait. They don't have the human resource the Russian have, and they have been boring the blunt of most of the fighting, the attrition rate of those Separatist force are going to be bad, in fact, I think if they had won now and took everything in Donbas (Like Bakhmut, Slovianks Kramatosk and so on) They can't govern those area because they would have problem with the number of military personnel. Their rank is depleted so badly I don't think even if they had won, they wouldn't had anyone to defend the gain.



Oldman1 said:


> Think most of their troops have been there since the beginning besides the ones that have been sent afterwards as the war goes on.


Russian have to wait til April next year to have the new draftee in to help with number. Or they can try raising volunteer battalion, which so far we see less than 50, and they are more or less just people getting 4 weeks of training and give them weapon and put them in frontline. 

It would work if you were the Ukrainian because you are defending the country, it's not good if you are tasked to take cities, an act you would not know how to do if you are a US Soldier unless you went thru 16 weeks of Advance Individual Training as a 11B00.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569218860623994882

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> There are still Russian troops trapped in Charkiw, Ukraine army needs to rout them out first. Russia 3rd mechanized rifle division, and 20th army corps.
> Once the region is secured the supplies to Russia troops at Donbas, Luhansk, Cherson will be cut off. They will sit like mouse in a trap.


Why? cant they supply these cities from russia?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569234301807468544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569246294019022853

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569217937411645440

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Why? cant they supply these cities from russia?


Majority of the Russian supplies comes in Rail, which is why Belgorod is the logistic base, with both Izyum and Kupiansk gone, there are no rail line coming from East, or North of Ukraine (Where Russia are) which mean whatever supply they have to run thru have to be by road network in Rostov region (East of Ukraine) or go thru Kerch strait. 

We all know how or what happened to Russian Military when they uses ground transport....And Crimea can only process limited amount of supplies for Russian force, not enough to hold up 2 front at once. And if I was the Ukrainian, I will look for a way to bring down Kerch Bridge.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569269482060914688
(Just south of sviatohirsk)

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569216409938575360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569213928982323201

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569225418531655686

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569275372050743296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569274691147407360

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> Why? cant they supply these cities from russia?


if the Russians transport troops, tanks, supplies via rails then they make via kupansk. The city is junction of all railroads.
By retaking Kupansk Ukraine army cuts off the supply link Russia invasion army to Russia mainland.
Now the Russians need to find out how to supply the troops in Donbas, Luhansk and Cherson that won’t be easy.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> if the Russians transport troops, tanks, supplies via rails then they make via kupansk. The city is junction of all railroads.
> By retaking Kupansk Ukraine army cuts off the supply link from Russia invasion army to Russia.
> Now the Russians need to find out how to supply the troops in Donbas, Luhansk and Cherson that won’t be easy.


They can always use trucks.


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## Viet

thetutle said:


> They can always use trucks.


Yes certainly they can use trucks instead, but imagine, how many trucks you need to transport an army tank division? It costs more time, more money, then trucks are more vulnerable to Ukraine artillery.


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> They can always use trucks.


lol

Remember this??






This is back when they use truck and supply Kyiv advance, 150 km away. This is done at the time when the Ukrainian did not have this






If the Russian do that again, HIMARS would want to have a word......

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569275480343281665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569280342531665922

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569275480343281665
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569280342531665922




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569283399617228800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569281785623707648

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## notorious_eagle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569269482060914688
> (Just south of sviatohirsk)


Jeez, what a spectacular clusterfu** by the Russians. When this war is over, there will be books written about this debacle. 

With the loss of Kupiansk, the Russians loose their major rail network thus loosing the ability to bring in their supplies and reinforce their positions. My hats of to the Ukrainians and their determination. Russians on paper should have steam rolled the Ukrainians, but this war is the perfect example that what you see on paper does not translate to what's on the ground.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569282909239971843

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569232465117720579

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569244824846360579


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569272300658106370

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569290685873799170

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569294135810527232

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569172762635436032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569185605854035971
The M1 Abrams photo was a fake


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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569272300658106370
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569290685873799170



Pilot didnot eject... some thing happens at 18s into video - no chute seen though.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> lol
> 
> Remember this??
> 
> View attachment 878262
> 
> 
> This is back when they use truck and supply Kyiv advance, 150 km away. This is done at the time when the Ukrainian did not have this
> 
> View attachment 878263
> 
> 
> If the Russian do that again, HIMARS would want to have a word......


Just disable some trucks at the column then the rest is duck shooting.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569297354867580928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569299019473584128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569299810330476544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569297703733202944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569296780038213632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569296147499597835


notorious_eagle said:


> Russians on paper should have steam rolled the Ukrainians



Why? You think Russians are super men or something?

"_Russia is never as strong as she looks_; Russia is never as weak as she looks." (Attributed to multiple individuals, including Winston Churchill.)

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569299101518540803

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569296596856102914

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## Viet



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569302811057487875

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569303157821284359

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569303079190761472

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569303606070853633


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569296141828718592


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569306854190190594

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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569006377107963906
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569007063912665096
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569016132689973249
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569016314202669057


they can put their pride aside and buy our Fajr-5c , it has 130km of range and with GNSS it is precise

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569306854190190594


That map is misleading.....

What Russia effectively held is Kherson, Melitopol, Crimea, Donetsk and Luchansk. The area means nothing if those cities fall. Izyum and Kupiansk is the prime example.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569305798639251456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569305310812069890

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Such attacks by Russia on civil infrastructures are act of terror, coward, against international laws, against war conducts. That won’t change anything on the battlefields.
> 
> Also, when light goes off in Donbas then the separatists will sit in the darkness.


they may say those infrastructures provide power to Ukraine military infrastructure


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569306046119682048

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## Viet

TTF future on natural gas for dec 22 delivery again cheaper. Down from the peak $300 to $193. The downward trend continues.
Good news for Europe, bad for Russia 





__





ICE Futures and Options | Product Guide


Contracts are for physical delivery through the transfer of rights in respect of Natural Gas at the Title Transfer Facility (TTF) Virtual Trading Point, operated by Gasunie Transport Services (GTS), the transmission system operator in the Netherlands. Delivery is made equally each hour...




www.theice.com


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> they can put their pride aside and buy our Fajr-5c , it has 130km of range and with GNSS it is precise


It's not whether or not Russia have the reach to get the HIMARS. It's whether or not they can find it.

Russia have Air Asset and Missile asset to hit HIMARS in a standoff range, in fact, when HIMARS was first donated, many analysts expected that 7 or 12 would not last long because Russia will actively seek and destroy it, I even talked about that with another member here (I don't remember who I talked to) and saying this will be Russian White Ghost if Russia decided to chase it down.

Problem is, Russia did not exactly chase it down, conventional estimation judging from Russian COUNTBAT Mission, it takes anywhere between 90-120 seconds for Russia to launch a COUNTBAT strike. What they should have done is not calculate the incoming but have forward personnel send drone to locate those HIMARS. That has not been done, which mean most Russian COUNTBAT mission is a simple guessing game. I have saw footage of Russian COUNTBAT after a Ukrainian 2S3 strike, you can see from the round dispersion, you can literally see they fix a position without knowing whether or not the tube was still there and go nuts on that general area, that's a sign they are guessing their coord. Don't get me wrong, they did it quite close (The guy said they landed 5 km away) but that probably works with 2S3 or other older SPG, it won't work with HIMARS as HIMARS rocket change direction mid-course to counter just that.



Hack-Hook said:


> they may say those infrastructures provide power to Ukraine military infrastructure


lol, if they need grid power to provide for Military Infrastructure, then it's even more amazing how Russia can lose that much territories to an Army that backward.

Most Military Infra are off grid, which mean they can be self sufficient without the powergrid, that's part of night fighting capability. Most installation have their own generator, or alternative energy source, so they cannot be interrupted when the power grid is taken down.

This is not the 60s anymore. taking out Powerplant will not stop a fight, most military trained with Night fighting anyway, with the use of NVG and other stuff, I am afraid the only consequence after they bombed the grid is some poor bastard can watch Eurovision online because powerline is cut.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> It's not whether or not Russia have the reach to get the HIMARS. It's whether or not they can find it.
> 
> Russia have Air Asset and Missile asset to hit HIMARS in a standoff range, in fact, when HIMARS was first donated, many analysts expected that 7 or 12 would not last long because Russia will actively seek and destroy it, I even talked about that with another member here (I don't remember who I talked to) and saying this will be Russian White Ghost if Russia decided to chase it down.
> 
> Problem is, Russia did not exactly chase it down, conventional estimation judging from Russian COUNTBAT Mission, it takes anywhere between 90-120 seconds for Russia to launch a COUNTBAT strike. What they should have done is not calculate the incoming but have forward personnel send drone to locate those HIMARS. That has not been done, which mean most Russian COUNTBAT mission is a simple guessing game. I have saw footage of Russian COUNTBAT after a Ukrainian 2S3 strike, you can see from the round dispersion, you can literally see they fix a position without knowing whether or not the tube was still there and go nuts on that general area, that's a sign they are guessing their coord. Don't get me wrong, they did it quite close (The guy said they landed 5 km away) but that probably works with 2S3 or other older SPG, it won't work with HIMARS as HIMARS rocket change direction mid-course to counter just that.


another problem with russia is they use drone to spot enemy and then they had to find some artillery that is in range to attack it . they still don't get the concept that the drone must be able to do the strike when have the chance not wasting the times on finding someone else who can do the strike


----------



## Vergennes

It's funny because the more the conflict goes on,the more professional,better equipped and better trained Ukrainian soldiers become while it is the total opposite for Russian soldiers. Same goes for the morale,while it is going up for the Ukrainians,it is the total opposite for the Russians. Nowadays the Russian army in Ukraine no longer looks like an army but just a bunch of rag tag militias.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569312993275674632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569243748957134850

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> lol, if they need grid power to provide for Military Infrastructure, then it's even more amazing how Russia can lose that much territories to an Army that backward.


that's Russia , several month ago i said they are stock in Korea war mentality, they literally have no concept of modern warfare


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> another problem with russia is they use drone to spot enemy and then they had to find some artillery that is in range to attack it . they still don't get the concept that the drone must be able to do the strike when have the chance not wasting the times on finding someone else who can do the strike


It's easier to say than done. 

To start, finding it is not easy, and if you launch attack capable drone, how many can you spare to find 1 HIMARS system? Don't forget their range is 80KM, which mean the area to look for is a circle drawn with a radius of 80KM. Sure, if you know the direction, you can narrow it down to 1/4 of that area. But it is still a big a$$ area. Unless you have 100 or so attack capable drone launched and sweep the area. You probably can't find it and attack it right away, not counting being lucky. And then you don't have hours to find it, you have merely minutes. 

That's why most country uses smaller inexpensive drone to look for target, then call in an Alpha Strike, that's more affordable and you don't sacrifice the chance.


----------



## Vergennes

Hack-Hook said:


> another problem with russia is they use drone to spot enemy and then they had to find some artillery that is in range to attack it . they still don't get the concept that the drone must be able to do the strike when have the chance not wasting the times on finding someone else who can do the strike



I would add the other problem is what do you expect from an army that lacks NCOs.... where the decision making is centralized in the higher command and where they don't let any trust,freedom of movement and decisions making to those at the bottom of the command chain. Truly inherited from the soviet era and Russia hasn't evolved. The time a decision comes,the enemy is already far away...

Add to that an army where nepotism and corruption are the rules and you get this kind of disaster.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569309784523902978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569305952767049738

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> that's Russia , several month ago i said they are stock in Korea war mentality, they literally have no concept of modern warfare


Well, Russia is just lashing out after losing that swarf of land

You don't need powergrid to fight, most NVG and NAV equipment works on Battery, and Generator are not something expensive to a point its unreachable. Taking out powerplant would not do much to a night fighting capable military.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569320243964649472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569320613696749574


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569322360909533186

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569274265538633734

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> they may say those infrastructures provide power to Ukraine military infrastructure


By that logic Russia army can bomb every toilet in Ukraine because it serves military members.
Even in war, people should have a minimum of self respect.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Old video


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569287832010883072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569319279308460032


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569336186984103939

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569260230944632832


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569338974224760834

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569338997629140995


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569335718853640195

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569340777259585538

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NotSure

Transatlantic politicians in germoney 2022: Bring me Solo and the Wookie!



https://cdni.russiatoday.com/deutsch/images/2022.09/original/631f3d7cb480cc6e4d481ac4.jpg


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569345403056783361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569345862932828160

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> By that logic Russia army can bomb every toilet in Ukraine because it serves military members.
> Even in war, people should have a minimum of self respect.


that's the logic behind it, how effective it is I'm not the expert in that field


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569346119402147852
The Russian losses don’t stop

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Don't forget their range is 80KM



That's max range. Effectively it's only about 30 km tops.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SIPRA

Russian forces seem to be on run, with their tails in their hind legs.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569347507309711362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569348839353585665

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569336141144363017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569318347908464641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569317646104936449

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569070539649552385
American volunteers at Izyum

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569354256670498819

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569353003659890688


----------



## Viet

Putin army is exposed as giant propaganda show. In some areas of Charkiw Russian troops ran away leaving everything behind, even 2 days before Ukraine army was approaching.


“The Russian army is not the overwhelming force that many in the West have feared. It is the product of Putin's rule: eaten away by the corruption system, he built like a mafia boss, bled dry both materially and morally.”

- Handelsblatt-


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> Much better then the EU economy as a matter of fact. The hit to the living standards of the average Russian pre-war to now is far less then the a average westerner
> 
> While official data in the west has their inflation at 10%. Critical things that people actually need daily to survive like energy and food have seen inflation over 100%. This is crippling the average westerner, and winter is fast coming.
> 
> Ps. If your account is 3 months old and youve done. Nothing but spam pro nato propaganda for every single one of your posts (almost as if your on a mission) i wouldnt pull the seniority/ questioning integrity card if i were you


Yes, the rising price of fuel for my car has cost me almost $300 in the last three months which is significantly less than 1% of what I bring in. I doubt bankrupcy is around the corner.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569344419878273026

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## srshkmr

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569345403056783361
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569345862932828160


What the hell are they even firing that rockets at from those jets anyway? The more i watch the more senseless it becomes


----------



## The SC

Kharkiv explosion last night..Russian bombing

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569320564824674305
The former chief of staff of the Italian Air Force, General Leonardo Tricarico, believes that the counterattack launched by Ukraine against Russian forces in the east of the country, will not lead to an imminent defeat for Moscow.

“This counterattack by the Ukrainians is a tactical move that will not lead to a Russian defeat in the medium or short term,” said Trikariko, head of the Institution for Intelligence, Cultural and Strategic Analysis (ICSA). “However, we are at a stage where the Ukrainians are regaining their lands very quickly.” .

He explained that “this is due to several factors: armament with precise guidance, intelligence that allows for better selection of targets, Western training, whether in terms of using weapons or interpreting military operations,” adding: “But there is no justification for optimism at this stage. Be careful".

He added, "It is better to be concerned in terms of such a sensitive stage. Moscow's military capacity is still very strong, and precisely now, because Russia and Ukraine are at a major drain point, and it is time to separate them and lead them to serious negotiations so that Russia does not lose its dignity."


Some Russian POWs


----------



## F-22Raptor

srshkmr said:


> What the hell are they even firing that rockets at from those jets anyway? The more i watch the more senseless it becomes



Russia has lost. They have no offensive capacity left. It’s all downhill from here for Russia. They can try to defend but the end result will be the same…Russian defeat. I think this war may be over within the next 6-12 months.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569361307949846530

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569352783857422336





Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569345862932828160




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569297354867580928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569259405136257025


----------



## NotSure

Nato is preparing Butcha 2.0 in the Kherson region. Let's hope, their nazi regime in Kiev will use mostly already dead people instead of killing pro Russian citizens.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569360701583671299


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569366572946591745


----------



## PakFactor

The SC said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569352783857422336
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569345862932828160



Meat grinder, I love it; keep it up, Euro.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569367513917538304


----------



## Vergennes

The SC said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569352783857422336
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569345862932828160



Not a single yellow or blue tape on the soldiers


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569368777971695617


----------



## zartosht

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yes, the rising price of fuel for my car has cost me almost $300 in the last three months which is significantly less than 1% of what I bring in. I doubt bankrupcy is around the corner.



Good for you Sven Gates. 

I am extremely happy for you and your immense wealth. I have tremendous awe and respect for those who flaunt their supposed wealth on the internet. Thats why i specifically included the “average” wording for a good reason. 


the average person whos not an internet millionaire is deeply struggling with the increase in energy , food and everything.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569370156119244802


----------



## SalarHaqq

NotSure said:


> Nato is preparing Butcha 2.0 in the Kherson region. Let's hope, their nazi regime in Kiev will use mostly already dead people instead of killing pro Russian citizens.








Iranian Chill Thread


if you think the entire NATO is 200 t72m of Poland +atgm and manpad, and some artillery ,then ok The entire NATO backing them doesn't mean NATO regimes will be transferring their whole arsenal to Ukraine. They sent more than the above cited items, it's all over the Ukraine thread and I can't...



defence.pk


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> Good for you Sven Gates.
> 
> I am extremely happy for you and your immense wealth. I have tremendous awe and respect for those who flaunt their supposed wealth on the internet. Thats why i specifically included the “average” wording for a good reason.
> 
> 
> the average person whos not an internet millionaire is deeply struggling with the increase in energy , food and everything.


The average person in the West is still much better off than the average person in the West during WWII. 
You do not have a problem with Petrol prices, if you do not have a car.
While not unaffected, it is nothing that we cannot handle.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569015128284188674

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569370496554205186


----------



## newb3e

Vergennes said:


> Not a single yellow or blue tape on the soldiers


yeh man western armies or their allies just dont die i dont know what the coffin from Afghanistan were filled with!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine Pulled Off a Masterstroke​


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/09/ukraine-russia-putin-kharkiv-kupyansk/671407/



( worth reading .. )

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569378184852021249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569377469806874626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569370496554205186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569368729959415812


----------



## The SC

Russian Federation began to hit the critical infrastructure..main power plants and railroad structure

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## gambit

Vergennes said:


> I would add the other problem is what do you expect from an army that *lacks NCOs*.... where the decision making is centralized in the higher command and where they don't let any trust,freedom of movement and decisions making to those at the bottom of the command chain. Truly inherited from the soviet era and Russia hasn't evolved. The time a decision comes,the enemy is already far away...
> 
> Add to that an army where nepotism and corruption are the rules and you get this kind of disaster.


When I was active duty, a chief explained the US model of the NCO this way...And he once lectured at the Air Force Academy on leadership issues.

An officer is supposed to maintain the 'big picture' at all time. It does not matter where they are in the chain of command, just keep the 'big picture' at all time. Then chop that 'big picture' up into smaller pieces and trust your NCOs to do their jobs, which is to chop their pieces into smaller pieces among themselves. The officer's job is to make sure those small goals meshes with each other back into that 'big picture' originally started out with, find any difference, and hold accountable those who created the differences. So in order for that to work, you must have the institution to start. Without the NCO corps, and the faith and trust that come with it, the officer would be overloaded with work, mentally and physically.

I paraphrased what he told our squadron before he retired. People thinks that just because the words 'non commissioned' mean the person has lower IQ, not well educated, and less refined as an individual. But I would say that the US military NCO corps fit only one out of three: they are not so refined.  Even with the more genteel Air Force, our sergeants are just slightly more refined than our Army, Navy, and Marines colleagues.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569381613523374081


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569379021091373057





Ali_Baba said:


> View attachment 878427
> 
> 
> ...



@waz @The Eagle

Dehumanizing soldiers is against forum rules.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569327116835033094

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569276293048573954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569293016342601730


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569392101477023747


----------



## PakFactor

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569381613523374081
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569379021091373057
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @waz @The Eagle
> 
> Dehumanizing soldiers is against forum rules.



Do not take it personally. Our generals and government officials do it to all 200 million Pakistanis daily. 😂


----------



## MeFishToo

zartosht said:


> Good for you Sven Gates.
> 
> I am extremely happy for you and your immense wealth. I have tremendous awe and respect for those who flaunt their supposed wealth on the internet. Thats why i specifically included the “average” wording for a good reason.
> 
> 
> the average person whos not an internet millionaire is deeply struggling with the increase in energy , food and everything.


An average working person in Scandinavia brings in atleast $3000 after taxes per month. $100 extra on fuel doesnt really hurt most of us. People depending on transfer income might have a hard time - as always - but they are not the average people.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ukraine Signals Major Weapons Request for Long-Term Offensive Against Russia​

WASHINGTON—Ukraine has signaled that it will make major new requests for weapons from the US and its allies, including a long-range missile system Washington has declined to provide, as Kyiv presses a successful offensive that has reclaimed thousands of square miles from Russian forces .

A document shared with US lawmakers and reviewed by The Wall Street Journal lists dozens of types of armaments the Kyiv government says it will need to press its offensive into 2023.

Among them are the Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMS, which has a range of about 190 miles. The Biden administration, which has dispatched more than $15 billion worth of weapons and other security assistance to Ukraine, has declined to provide that system over concerns Ukraine could use it to strike Russian territory and spark a wider conflict with the West.

Ukraine’s list of requirements for “offensive operations” includes 29 types of weapon systems and ammunition. Among them are tanks, drones, artillery systems; more Harpoon antiship missiles; and 2,000 missiles for the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or Himars, which the United States began providing earlier this year.

Ukraine’s requests come as its forces have routed Russian troops in northeastern Ukraine.

It follows the recent publication of a strategy statement by Valeriy Zaluzhny, the commander in chief of Ukraine’s forces, and Mykhailo Zabrodsky, a member of the Ukrainian parliament and a senior military officer who led the most significant Ukrainian counterattack in the 2014 war with Russia.

They argued that Russia has long-range cruise missiles that greatly outdistance the systems in the Ukrainian inventory. A turning point could come if the Ukrainians also had longer-range systems, they argued, specifically mentioning the ATACMS.

“The only way to radically change the strategic situation is, without a doubt, for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to launch several consecutive, and ideally, simultaneous counterattacks during the 2023 campaign,” they wrote.

The Kyiv government says it has taken back about 3,500 square miles of territory in the Kharkiv region.

Ukraine’s embassy in Washington did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Asked Friday why the US remained reluctant to give Ukraine the ATACMS missiles, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said the US was committed to giving the Ukrainians what they need to beat back the Russian forces, but said “It’s not just about one particular weapon or weapons system .”

“It’s about how you integrate these systems and how you integrate the efforts of various elements in the inventory to create effects that provide advantage to the Ukrainians,” he said in Prague alongside Czech Minister of Defense Jana Cernochova. “And we’re beginning to see that.”









WSJ News Exclusive | Ukraine Signals Major Weapons Request for Long-Term Offensive Against Russia


Ukraine has indicated it will make new requests for weapons from the U.S. and its allies, including a long-range missile system Washington so far has declined to provide.




www.wsj.com


----------



## thetutle

MeFishToo said:


> An average working person in Scandinavia brings in atleast $3000 after taxes per month. $100 extra on fuel doesnt really hurt most of us. People depending on transfer income might have a hard time - as always - but they are not the average people.



Your facts mean nothing and will fall on deaf ears to any person swallowing the offical Moscow line. Particularly some of the Iranian forumers, who are quite convinced that europeans will be starving and freezing to death this winter. Its just cluelessness together with wishful thinking.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

They want Ukraine to now take Crimea and "take out Putin" himself !!









A Ukraine push towards Crimea could be the hammer blow that knocks out Vladimir Putin


The occupied peninsula on the Black Sea is Russia’s 'centre of gravity' in this war, without which their whole force crumbles




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569297354867580928



That's not a krab........

First of all, Krab is a bit smaller and shorter in length. This is too big for a Krab.

Second, Krab has 2 circular hatches like this picture shown with the hatches open






You can definitely see a rectangular hatch on the gunner side on the drone photo


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569409287474003969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569418448588922886

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569381077759807489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569410346791706630

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569414094624538628


----------



## HorusRa

What you guys think will actually happen when the lend-lease kicks in next month?


----------



## jhungary

HorusRa said:


> What you guys think will actually happen when the lend-lease kicks in next month?


Depends on what article US signed over for Lend Lease....

The Ukrainian probably don't need it tho, they have captured stuff in Kharkiv that can armed 3 motorised Brigade with....That's a whole new Battlegroup.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

jhungary said:


> That's not a krab........
> 
> First of all, Krab is a bit smaller and shorter in length. This is too big for a Krab.
> 
> Second, Krab has 2 circular hatches like this picture shown with the hatches open
> 
> View attachment 878451
> 
> 
> You can definitely see a rectangular hatch on the gunner side on the drone photo
> 
> View attachment 878452




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569338007760637958


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569422012480733185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569422856907358211


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## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569338007760637958


You repost the same video from another account does not make it truer, unless you are claiming Ukrainian cutting the hatch to make it look like a M109 system when they receive those Krab, the system that was "Destroyed" is not a Krab. That rectangular hatch is a feature on older M109 system not Krab.

Unless you have evidence to counter my photo-evidence.

EDIT:: GO read the only reply from Chronology himself, he said it was a M109A3.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> Your facts mean nothing and will fall on deaf ears to any person swallowing the offical Moscow line. Particularly some of the Iranian forumers, who are quite convinced that europeans will be starving and freezing to death this winter. Its just cluelessness together with wishful thinking.


My main problem is that my apartment is to hot, even in the winter, because I happen to have my apartment right on top of the central heating in the cellar, so reducing the temperature by 4-5 degrees will suit me fine.
No need to run the air conditioner in the winter, LOL…

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## aziqbal

seems like Russia is losing this war and losing fast 

Ukraine has the momentum now 

Stupid Russians are making their ancestors look like idiots 

they are doing a terrible job and losing too much men and material 

hopefully Russian can come back and bleed US more so countries like Turkey, Iran and Malaysia can keep progressing 

US has to be tied down into another "never ending" war so it remains preoccupied for another decade


----------



## PakistaniandProud

Pakistan sells Soviet-Era artillery to Ukraine


"The massive needs of the Ukrainian Army when it comes to artillery are being met from some unorthodox sources- Ukrainian artillerymen were spotted using 122mm HE artillery projectiles made by Pakistani Ordnance Factories (POF)" "We can identify these projectiles through a few key aspects...



defence.pk


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569396931826257920


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569413930568613894

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569404298701717506


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569395029109506048


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569398936305123328


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569426437119123458

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569426393942949893


----------



## The SC

jhungary said:


> You repost the same video from another account does not make it truer, unless you are claiming Ukrainian cutting the hatch to make it look like a M109 system when they receive those Krab, the system that was "Destroyed" is not a Krab. That rectangular hatch is a feature on older M109 system not Krab.
> 
> Unless you have evidence to counter my photo-evidence.
> 
> EDIT:: GO read the only reply from Chronology himself, he said it was a M109A3.


They say it is the Polish 155 mm AHS Krab .. not the Russian one.. the poles have upgraded theirs many times..


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569427484025946113
It doesn’t stop


----------



## jhungary

The SC said:


> They saythe Polish 155 mm AHS Krab .. not the Russian one.. the poles have upgraded theirs many times..


Who said it's a Polish 155mm AHS Krab?

Read what the OP of taht tweet said in the reply section?







Again, you don't make a Krab to looks like a M109A3 with upgrade, and that square hatch is one of the features of an old M109 system.

Otherwise, show me one stock photo of a Krab that have Square Hatch?


----------



## mulj

This is lesson for Arabs who still stick to the russian equipment and combat doctrines to ditch of it ASAP for their own good.
Russians should learn electronics and apply it from airplanes upto the individual soldiers, it is kind sad to see how they are blind and inept on battlefield when faced with modern and precise weapons.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569429188360167427


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569392353579831296


----------



## mulj

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569413930568613894
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569404298701717506




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569427957458022400

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## The SC

jhungary said:


> Who said it's a Polish 155mm AHS Krab?
> 
> Read what the OP of taht tweet said in the reply section?
> 
> View attachment 878458
> 
> 
> Again, you don't make a Krab to looks like a M109A3 with upgrade, and that square hatch is one of the features of an old M109 system.
> 
> Otherwise, show me one stock photo of a Krab that have Square Hatch?


M109A3










it looks a lot different..and it has only one hatch.. but hey we aren't there.. maybe your guy is right..maybe he is not..


----------



## jhungary

The SC said:


> M109A3
> View attachment 878461
> 
> 
> 
> it looks a lot different.. but hey we aren't there.. maybe your guy is right..maybe he is not..


That's not my guy, that's your guy, the same guy you quoted his tweet at #5394


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569338007760637958


----------



## The SC

jhungary said:


> That's not my guy, that's your guy, the same guy you quoted his tweet at #5394
> 
> View attachment 878462


The thing we see on the video has two hatches..the Paladin has only one as you know for sure..


----------



## jhungary

The SC said:


> The thing we see on the video has two hatches..the Paladin has only one as you know for sure..


I know for a *FACT* that M109A3 have 2 hatches

Tell me what is the common thing highlighted by a green circle in both picture?









And you can see from the second picture, very clearly that that is a semi-circle hatch (Which is how it was opened) behind the gunner, and A SQUARE hatch that was opened next to the actual hatch, highlighted by the green circle.

Please, stop with this nonsense.....The more you try to defend that post when the author himself corrected would only make you look bad.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569356885190447104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569382456083755008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569360345591848961


----------



## gambit

We can be sure that Poutine have plans B and C for himself just in case Russia lost the war. All those 'offshore' bank accts. I doubt that Poutine would be so careless that he would have an 'accident' somewhere in Moscow.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569438708260302850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569438710420377600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569438712232296448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569438713922330631

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569429240973770753


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569243133925367809
Russian gains vs Ukrainian gains since beginning of June.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569414254708531200


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569243133925367809
> Russian gains vs Ukrainian gains since beginning of June.



Russian gains were large cities like Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Kherson, Melitopol, Berdyansk. Ukrainian gains were small cities like Izium, Kupyansk.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569456131994419200


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569457703004807171
Another horrific day of losses for Russia…99. That’s now 5,900 for the entire war

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569457703004807171
> Another horrific day of losses for Russia…99. That’s now 5,900 for the entire war



Russia has population growth for some years now. A few thousand losses is nothing.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has population growth for some years now. A few thousand losses is nothing.




Ukraine is capturing enough equipment to create multiple new brigades.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569427642482302977

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

Extended analysis of today's operations


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569465591114735616


F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine is capturing enough equipment to create multiple new brigades.



Ukraine population falling fast. The man power advantaging shifts to Russia over the coming years and decades. It is not about how many soldiers you have today. It's about how many soldiers you have tomorrow.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569338519302148101


----------



## jhungary

Russian Commander Says He's 'Depressed' by How War Is Turning Out​




__





Russian Commander Says He's 'Depressed' by How War Is Turning Out






www.msn.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Russian Commander Says He's 'Depressed' by How War Is Turning Out​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Commander Says He's 'Depressed' by How War Is Turning Out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com



These guys are so spoiled.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Schadenfreude in action, 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569283323507388419


----------



## jhungary

A very funny interview with Ukrainian Analyst and Russian Analyst on the same panel by Al Jazeera






Especially when the Ukrainian academic said to the Russian "You are doing a good job demilitarize yourself by supplying Russian equipment to Ukraine on battlefield." You can see the Russian guy have nothing to say but a priceless look.....

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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> A very funny interview with Ukrainian Analyst and Russian Analyst on the same panel by Al Jazeera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially when the Ukrainian academic said to the Russian "You are doing a good job demilitarize yourself by supplying Russian equipment to Ukraine on battlefield." You can see the Russian guy have nothing to say but a priceless look.....



It almost looked like the Russian was zoned out in the end -- watch it without any volume, and you get an eerie feeling.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Russian Commander Says He's 'Depressed' by How War Is Turning Out​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Commander Says He's 'Depressed' by How War Is Turning Out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com


That will end very ugly for Russia. We live in 21 century how can one invade another sovereign country with faked pretext and hope he can walk away from this? what a delusion.
Putin is ex Soviet spy he has learned nothing in life than lies and deceptions.
Russia is finished. Putin is pushing his country into abyss and nobody can stop him. What a tragedy.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> These guys are so spoiled.


Don't judge a soldier unless you have been one or your country mates have prevailed in a war. Pathetic performance in Vietnam so unless you emerged victorious, don't judge what the losing side feels like.

Experience over the civilian population under COVID lock-downs or quelling civiian protests under the guise of 'public security' does not count. Probably the only major Chinese engagement that could be given credit is the skirmish against India. But it was more of a martial arts contest and wrestling and sticks. No weapons, combined armed operations


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Don't judge a soldier unless you have been one or your country mates have prevailed in a war. Pathetic performance in Vietnam so unless you emerged victorious, don't judge what the losing side feels like.
> 
> Experience over the civilian population under COVID lock-downs or quelling civiian protests under the guise of 'public security' does not count. Probably the only major Chinese engagement that could be given credit is the skirmish against India. But it was more of a martial arts contest and wrestling and sticks. No weapons, combined armed operations



These men grew up spoiled, having a good life, never seen combat for a single day. Ukrainians grew up in war and destruction in the past 8 years. Russians compared to Ukrainians are pussies.


----------



## aviator_fan

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Schadenfreude in action,
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569283323507388419


No ejection either...no chance to survive. How does this happen in a two engine jet to have complete failure



gambit said:


> We can be sure that Poutine have plans B and C for himself just in case Russia lost the war. All those 'offshore' bank accts. I doubt that Poutine would be so careless that he would have an 'accident' somewhere in Moscow.


Unless China shelters him, his options for Plans are fairly limited. He won't go to N. Korea: he could never use the money there. The major reasons the despots steal money is to go then spend it and show off where it really matters , in Europe, so they can be considered worthy. This is the reason for the big mansions and $100M yacths in famous destinations. Taking it to N. Korea just not going to do it.

So very limited options (may be Venezuela). No I think he is going down this ship like Qaddafi and Saddam did. They had bad advice and then were committed to their death.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Unless China shelters him, his options for Plans are fairly limited. He won't go to N. Korea: he could never use the money there. The major reasons the despots steal money is to go then spend it and show off where it really matters , in Europe, so they can be considered worthy. This is the reason for the big mansions and $100M yacths in famous destinations. Taking it to N. Korea just not going to do it.
> 
> So very limited options (may be Venezuela). No I think he is going down this ship like Qaddafi and Saddam did. They had bad advice and then were committed to their death.



Don't forget Yanukovych is still in Russia.


----------



## Viet

aviator_fan said:


> No ejection either...no chance to survive. How does this happen in a two engine jet to have complete failure
> 
> 
> Unless China shelters him, his options for Plans are fairly limited. He won't go to N. Korea: he could never use the money there. The major reasons the despots steal money is to go then spend it and show off where it really matters , in Europe, so they can be considered worthy. This is the reason for the big mansions and $100M yacths in famous destinations. Taking it to N. Korea just not going to do it.
> 
> So very limited options (may be Venezuela). No I think he is going down this ship like Qaddafi and Saddam did. They had bad advice and then were committed to their death.


Putin is Stalin redux. He wants surrounded only by loyal stooges. He will not let anyone suspicious to him. Any coup d’e’tat or assassination is futile. All his opponents are dead, poisoned, imprisoned, or in gulags.


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russian gains were large cities like Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Kherson, Melitopol, Berdyansk. Ukrainian gains were small cities like Izium, Kupyansk.


Gains in Ukraine at expense of collapse in world standing, exposing a worthless Air Force, and dependence on third rate countries like N. Korea, and inability to reach the objective it reached out to: to completely dismantle the Ukrainian leadership which is why they targeted Kiev. 

To have such an aspiration, and then not achieve it, and then start the abandonment is the utlimate humiliation. Worth it to hold on to the 4-5 cities for now? Time will tell.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Gains in Ukraine at expense of collapse in world standing, exposing a worthless Air Force, and dependence on third rate countries like N. Korea, and inability to reach the objective it reached out to: to completely dismantle the Ukrainian leadership which is why they targeted Kiev.
> 
> To have such an aspiration, and then not achieve it, and then start the abandonment is the utlimate humiliation. Worth it to hold on to the 4-5 cities for now? Time will tell.



Ukrainians are much tougher than Russians. Ukrainians grew up in war and destruction. Russians grew up spoiled. Russians compared to Ukrainians are pussies. Only Chechens can go mano y mano with Ukrainians.


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569465591114735616
> 
> 
> Ukraine population falling fast. The man power advantaging shifts to Russia over the coming years and decades. It is not about how many soldiers you have today. It's about how many soldiers you have tomorrow.


Everytime you say something like this,it seems you are trying to get away from something you know is not true. Its happened before on your baseless points on burning of gas flames by another expert or this being a forever war.. So I will call you on this. Pls don't do this as it takes away from otherwise good (albeit opposing and thats what we are here for) sources you share

Ukraine's male population is in the country. Where do you get to its population is declining.
A simple search will tell you that Russia's population is in a decline. A million fewer people between 2019 and 2020. In the 90s it took an entire decade to reduce that much. That process will now further accelerate. Their fertility ratio is 1.8. You need to be at 2.1 to maintain your population. It is the same situation that several countries including EU and China are in.

So Russia has committed majority of its assets trying to take an insignificant military force. They are going 4th world countries to get weapons. And it has not a growing population 'tomorrow' as you say it.

And finally, lets say even if it was not in a population decline: its the will to fight that matters and how as an attacking army you can mobilize and motivate your soldiers. The way Russians are running off, its clear motiviation and morale is at zero.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Worth it to hold on to the 4-5 cities for now? Time will tell.



Kherson is vital to Crimea's water supply from Dnipr river. Zaporizhia and Mariupol are vital to land bridge to Crimea. These places are defended at all costs. Ukrainians cannot take these back.



aviator_fan said:


> Ukraine's male population is in the country. Where do you get to its population is declining.
> A simple search will tell you that Russia's population is in a decline. A million fewer people between 2019 and 2020. In the 90s it took an entire decade to reduce that much. That process will now further accelerate. Their fertility ratio is 1.8. You need to be at 2.1 to maintain your population. It is the same situation that several countries including EU and China are in.



Both Ukraine and Russia have population decline. America has birth rate 1.6 per woman. America has population decline if there is no illegal immigration from Mexico.

Ukraine population is declining faster than Russia population decline. Over the coming years and decades Russians will out number Ukrainians more and more as Ukraine's infrastructure is wrecked by cruise missiles and Ukrainians flee to the West in the millions.


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukrainians are much tougher than Russians. Ukrainians grew up in war and destruction. Russians grew up spoiled. Russians compared to Ukrainians are pussies. Only Chechens can go mano y mano with Ukrainians.


Are you mad? their own old defense systems of Ukraine Downing their best jets their best tanks so what's your point?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> And finally, lets say even if it was not in a population decline: its the will to fight that matters and how as an attacking army you can mobilize and motivate your soldiers. The way Russians are running off, its clear motiviation and morale is at zero.



Ukrainians are much tougher than Russians. Ukrainians grew up in war and destruction. Russians grew up spoiled. Russians compared to Ukrainians are pussies. Only Chechens can go mano y mano with Ukrainians.


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukrainians are much tougher than Russians. Ukrainians grew up in war and destruction. Russians grew up spoiled. Russians compared to Ukrainians are pussies. Only Chechens can go mano y mano with Ukrainians.


Stop your nonsense here you fake Chinese

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukrainians are much tougher than Russians. Ukrainians grew up in war and destruction. Russians grew up spoiled. Russians compared to Ukrainians are pussies. Only Chechens can go mano y mano with Ukrainians.



Ukranians are bandera Nazis. They are tough.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukranians are bandera Nazis. They are tough.



Nope. Here in Canada there are plenty of Ukrainians and they are pussies because they didn't grow up in war and destruction like the people in Ukraine did.


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Nope. Here in Canada there are plenty of Ukrainians and they are pussies because they didn't grow up in war and destruction like the people in Ukraine did.


Stop your nonsense here I am reporting you for insulting other nations


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

White and Green with M/S said:


> Stop your nonsense here I am reporting you for insulting other nations



I have classmates who are from Ukraine. I have co workers who are from Ukraine. I speak the truth.


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I have classmates who are from Ukraine. I have co workers who are from Ukraine. I speak the truth.


And you're told me you're at 38 in other thread so what are you studying??? Do PhD in some fields and this is not true for all Ukrainian now respect other nations


----------



## Soldier35

The Ukrainian Air Force showed footage of the landing of Ukrainian fighters on the highway.






The crew of the Russian airborne combat vehicle BMD-4M showed their combat work and told the tactics of the Ukrainian army units. The armament of the BMD-4M is a 100 mm 2A70 cannon, a 30 mm 2A72 automatic cannon and a 7.62 caliber PKMT machine gun.






Footage of an attempted offensive by Ukrainian troops in Pisky, this is the Donetsk region. In the video, the battle and attack of Ukraine by the forces of a motorized infantry platoon of three BMP-2s supported by two T-72B tanks. After the destruction of one of the Ukrainian T-72Bs by Russian artillery and grenade launchers, Ukrainian units began to retreat.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Soldier35 said:


> The crew of the Russian airborne combat vehicle BMD-4M showed their combat work and told the tactics of the Ukrainian army units. The armament of the BMD-4M is a 100 mm 2A70 cannon, a 30 mm 2A72 automatic cannon and a 7.62 caliber PKMT machine gun.



These light tanks seem more useful than main battle tanks. They are easy and quick to build, have sufficient fire power, nimble and more reliable, and are fully amphibious. On top of that, they can carry troops and supplies.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> These light tanks seem more useful than main battle tanks. They are easy and quick to build, have sufficient fire power, nimble and more reliable, and are fully amphibious. On top of that, they can carry troops and supplies.



They're made off aluminum


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> They're made off aluminum



Tank armor never work anyway. Kornet has demonstrated penetrating Abrams tanks in Yemen causing fuel to explode spectacularly. Might as well use light tanks which are cheap and quick to build.


----------



## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> Nobody is disputing what China has in resources. China has come a long way in 25 years and I am not taking away from that.
> 
> What I have issue with you and your compatriots claiming China is a set of superhumans or something and somehow with this super human power is going to use its resources to help the Russians.
> 
> Xi is not stupid enough to do that regardless of what you are thinking. How would any of the above help Russia.
> 
> And don't use childish language like LOLLOLL on a global defence forum. It makes you look pathetic and takes away from the important facts that you are stating


LOLOLOL. Hey numb numb, what superhuman, use some common sense, it's known as industrial capacity, if China decides to help Russia, you guys would be bankrupted. Imagine the amount of artillery we can supply them none stop. Why do you think Biden keep on asking us to NOT help Russia..... Warn us when we shook hands with Putin. Lololol. I don't care you what you think. I will still LOL as much as I want Jose.


gambit said:


> Panic and fear? Hardly. Is China a military threat to US? I guess China's strategy is to keep out of wars thereby leaving the world wondering how lethal is the Parade Line Army (PLA) in a non-nuclear war. You guys mocked the US military despite our experience in wars, so why are you offended that I jabbed at your PLA for lack of the same? And yeah, we will see you posting responses containing Korea.
> 
> Is it possible that the Party believe that the PLA is not ready for modern warfare despite all the shiny new toys China bought all these yrs? What if the US/NATO told Xi that if China actually fight with Russia for Ukraine, the US/NATO would get active and we would slaughter the PLA in Ukraine? You do not know and neither do I. But we both know such backdoor communication has happened before.
> 
> Back in the Cuban Missile Crisis, SAC CINC General Thomas Power ordered, on his own authority, Strategic Air Command (SAC) to DefCon 2. Then he ordered all SAC units to respond on open radio their combat status. He wanted the Soviets to actually intercept those open transmissions. Within 15 minutes, 75 B-52s reported readied to taxi and about 1400 more assorted bombers will be runway able in 30 min, 40 ICBMs readied to launch and 170 are under fueling status. The Soviets called in that back channel phone and offered negotiations. I am five9s certain Xi got that call and he backed off. He cannot afford to dirty up those pretty Parade Line Army (PLA) uniforms because he need them to glorify himself. Any blood on those uniforms will be that of his political enemies, not of the enemies of China.
> 
> So for you to tell us to 'trust' you regarding something you know nothing about, is hilarious. All those PLA soldiers, sailors, and airmen? At least they submitted themselves to a lifestyle that you wish you have the balls and spine to endure. In your case, as well as your fellow PDF Chinese members, being sofa soldiers are shameful but you guys are too clueless to know why. You are cheering for a side that your country is readied to abandon in a moment, and abandon with extreme distaste.


Say that to your generals and msm, keep on China this China that, we are ranked a bigger threat than Russia. We are just 3rd world ppl... Nothing to fear. We only supply pencils to Russia, No worries okay. Lol. Your long post suggest you do think otherwise. Lololol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Han Patriot

thetutle said:


> Poland wants 500 HIMAR's? why? do they plan to conquer the world?
> 
> 
> Have you been to europe? have you seen how people live there? obviously not if you think people are suffering and freezing.


Yes I been there several times. Lol. Your point being?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569563473105022977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569552555125907456

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

TTF natural gas futures is quoted $190 (Oct 22 delivery), down 8 percent.


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## Viet

That doesn’t look good for gas prices. The futures breaks thru the peaks in Jan (panic before invasion) and Mar (the shock after invasion). Should the EU economy slow down further, Ukraine regaining more territories, I would bet the price to go down to $150.
Winter coming, price crashing, although Gazprom delivers 0 gas thru north stream 1. Putin gets 0 euros. That hurts.
The only people that laugh loud on the way to the bank is Norway. They are now richer than the Swiss.


----------



## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> That doesn’t look good for gas prices. The futures breaks thru the peaks in Jan (panic before invasion) and Mar (the shock after invasion). I would expect the price to go down to $150.
> That price crashing although Gazprom delivers 0 gas thru north stream 1. Putin gets 0 euros.
> The only people that laugh loud on the way to the bank is Norway. They are now richer than the Swiss.
> 
> 
> View attachment 878586


For a long time I hoped EU and Russian relations could normalize vs too much reliance on USA.

With the war grinding on, I thought maybe a land for peace deal (the pro-russian parts only) would perhaps be the wisest way out of this mess (for all).

After bucha, refusing to negotiate, continuing landgrab, gas war…it has gone on too far and too long.

Russia needs to be crushed in ukraine. Its economy needs to be crushed…there can only be normalisation if putin is kicked out and russia agrees to reparations.

If putin remains…russia wil end up like another larger north korea. Putin needs to go.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569563473105022977
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569552555125907456


Humiliated on the battlefield russia takes it out on civilian infrastructure….

Care to explain the strategic value? 
They are trying to annex parts of ukraine…and denying (mostly russian speakers!) water and electricity will win their hearts and minds? 

This will just turn into more resentment and will to resist. Same why americas “bombs for democracy” failed.


----------



## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> For a long time I hoped EU and Russian relations could normalize vs too much reliance on USA.
> 
> With the war grinding on, I thought maybe a land for peace deal (the pro-russian parts only) would perhaps be the wisest way out of this mess (for all).
> 
> After bucha, refusing to negotiate, continuing landgrab, gas war…it has gone on too far and too long.
> 
> Russia needs to be crushed in ukraine. Its economy needs to be crushed…there can only be normalisation if putin is kicked out and russia agrees to reparations.
> 
> If putin remains…russia wil end up like another larger north korea. Putin needs to go.
> 
> 
> Humiliated on the battlefield russia takes it out on civilian infrastructure….
> 
> Care to explain the strategic value?
> They are trying to annex parts of ukraine…and denying (mostly russian speakers!) water and electricity will win their hearts and minds?
> 
> This will just turn into more resentment and will to resist. Same why americas “bombs for democracy” failed.


Land for peace is not an option that would never happen because that means Ukraine must surrender. That’s the initial demand by Moscow. Now Putin’s mad dog Medwedew threatens, Ukraine must submit to unconditional surrender, or else…


----------



## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Say that to your generals and msm, keep on China this China that, we are ranked a bigger threat than Russia. We are just 3rd world ppl... Nothing to fear. We only supply pencils to Russia, No worries okay. Lol. Your long post suggest you do think otherwise. Lololol


Your China have a chance to prove that the Parade Line Army (PLA) is a legitimate fighting force in Ukraine, but China chickened out. We suggest the PDF Chinese stop using Korea and Viet Nam as proof that the PLA can fight. It looks like Korea and Viet Nam are over for you sofa soldiers.


----------



## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Your China have a chance to prove that the Parade Line Army (PLA) is a legitimate fighting force in Ukraine, but China chickened out. We suggest the PDF Chinese stop using Korea and Viet Nam as proof that the PLA can fight. It looks like Korea and Viet Nam are over for you sofa soldiers.


I just fcking told you, we are a 3rd world poor country with no threat. How many times do I have to repeat myself. I have no idea why you make us into some superpower, we are not Indians. We have no technology, economy and military prowess. We just fight with our old AKs. 

Yup judging on how Afghanistan and Iraq went, US is really stronk. Do I need to start on Syria? The Russians won a war with one broken carrier puffing black smoke. Hahahahah. Gosh.

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> I just fcking told you, we are a 3rd world poor country with no threat. How many times do I have to repeat myself. I have no idea why you make us into some superpower, we are not Indians. We have no technology, economy and military prowess. We just fight with our old AKs.
> 
> Yup judging on how Afghanistan and Iraq went, US is really stronk. Do I need to start on Syria? The Russians won a war with one broken carrier puffing black smoke. Hahahahah. Gosh.


Syria? All we did was put in a pinky finger, not the whole fist. But in Ukraine, your China had its chance but turned tailed and ran from a US proxy. Still think you can take Taiwan?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569612301065666561

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## Viet

The reason why Russia aviation was absent during Ukraine offensive on Charkiw: Gepards flak tanks.


Russian Pilots Have More To Fear As Ukraine’s Gepard Anti-Aircraft Tanks Arrive​David Axe







A Gepard.

KMW PHOTO









Russian Pilots Have More To Fear As Ukraine’s Gepard Anti-Aircraft Tanks Arrive


The Gepard is an Su-25-killer.




www.forbes.com


----------



## sammuel

~

I will believe it if there is further confirmation . . . but this is what was reported :


Mon, September 12, 2022 at 4:11 AM

Russian units near Kherson negotiating surrender, Ukraine says​
“(They) are attempting to negotiate conditions of laying down arms, under the norms of international humanitarian law,” said Humeniuk.

According to her, the commanders of these Russian units are looking to find ways to abandon their positions by any means available. This could include attempting to retreat to Russian back lines, or laying down their weapons.

“The degree of creaking resolve and demoralization is so high, even the commanders now realize they don’t have anywhere to go,” Humeniuk added.

She said that enemy troops are aware of the major Ukrainian victory in Kharkiv

As their ability to cross the Dnipro River remains severely curtailed, Russian forces on the river’s western bank are forced to look for ways to extract themselves from the area – according to the spokesperson.

Humeniuk noted that Ukrainian forces have penetrated several dozen kilometers into Russia-held territory in southern Ukraine.










Russian units near Kherson negotiating surrender, Ukraine says


Some Russian units in Kherson Oblast are attempting to negotiate a surrender to Ukrainian troops, the Ukrainian military’s Operational Command South spokesperson Nataliya Humeniuk told Ukrainian broadcaster Channel 24 on Sept. 12.




news.yahoo.com






~

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## thetutle

Han Patriot said:


> I just fcking told you, we are a 3rd world poor country with no threat. How many times do I have to repeat myself. I have no idea why you make us into some superpower, we are not Indians. We have no technology, economy and military prowess. We just fight with our old AKs.



So be fair, you have weapons from the 1970's, or the kind of stuff US had in the 19070's. Those weapons are still pretty good. So congenitally you are not a threat to the west. Far from it. You are an emerging potential threat should you choose to disrupt the global order as defined by the west. So far you have not done that, and the way it's going, you probably wont.


----------



## Broccoli

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569563473105022977
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569552555125907456



Anger is one of the stages in griefing. 

That guy celebrates destruction of civilian infrastructure because Russians military cannot win on battlefield.

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## sammuel

~

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, September 12​
Ukraine’s southern counteroffensive is continuing to have significant impacts on Russian morale and military capabilities in southern Ukraine.

Satellite imagery of known Russian positions in Kyselivka, 15km northwest of Kherson City, shows that all but four Russian vehicles have departed from previous forward positions, consistent with rumors that Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) troops have abandoned Kyselivka and moved back towards the Dnipro River

. Kyselivka is an operationally significant location for Russian forces around Kherson City because it is the last major settlement along both the E58 highway and a railway line between current Ukrainian positions and Chornobaivka, the outermost part of Kherson City.

The apparent withdrawal of Russian troops from this position may compromise the Russians’ ability to defend the northwestern outskirts of Kherson City and suggests that Russian troops in this area perceive an imminent threat to their positions. 

Spokesperson for Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command, Natalya Humenyuk, stated on September 12 that Russian forces located along the right bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast are attempting to negotiate for surrender under the auspices of international law.

Ukrainian operations in Kharkiv Oblast are unlikely to have had such a dramatic psychological effect on Russian troops this far south, and both the withdrawal of troops from forward positions in Kyselivka and reports of surrender negotiations are indicators that Ukrainian counteroffensives in the south are progressing in a significant way, even if visibility on this axis is limited by the shift in focus to Kharkiv.






Institute for the Study of War







www.understandingwar.org


----------



## Broccoli

Viet said:


> That will end very ugly for Russia. We live in 21 century how can one invade another sovereign country with faked pretext and hope he can walk away from this? what a delusion.
> Putin is ex Soviet spy he has learned nothing in life than lies and deceptions.
> Russia is finished. Putin is pushing his country into abyss and nobody can stop him. What a tragedy.



That happens when a fascist state begins believing it's own propaganda and nobody wants to anger "strong man" by telling him facts about how things really are, we'll see if same happens in China with Xi Jinping since he most likely surrounded himself with _yes men, _hopefully it wont be too much of an disaster_._

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## Viet

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> I will believe it if there is further confirmation . . . but this is what was reported :
> 
> 
> Mon, September 12, 2022 at 4:11 AM
> 
> Russian units near Kherson negotiating surrender, Ukraine says​
> “(They) are attempting to negotiate conditions of laying down arms, under the norms of international humanitarian law,” said Humeniuk.
> 
> According to her, the commanders of these Russian units are looking to find ways to abandon their positions by any means available. This could include attempting to retreat to Russian back lines, or laying down their weapons.
> 
> “The degree of creaking resolve and demoralization is so high, even the commanders now realize they don’t have anywhere to go,” Humeniuk added.
> 
> She said that enemy troops are aware of the major Ukrainian victory in Kharkiv
> 
> As their ability to cross the Dnipro River remains severely curtailed, Russian forces on the river’s western bank are forced to look for ways to extract themselves from the area – according to the spokesperson.
> 
> Humeniuk noted that Ukrainian forces have penetrated several dozen kilometers into Russia-held territory in southern Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian units near Kherson negotiating surrender, Ukraine says
> 
> 
> Some Russian units in Kherson Oblast are attempting to negotiate a surrender to Ukrainian troops, the Ukrainian military’s Operational Command South spokesperson Nataliya Humeniuk told Ukrainian broadcaster Channel 24 on Sept. 12.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Very possible
Those 30k russian troops at Cherson are trapped west of the river. They can’t retreat over the eastern side of the river. Once Ukraine army notice, the russians want to retreat, she will run down artillery on them. Just a matter of days until they run out of foods, waters, ammo.
The collapse of Charkiw front only makes supplies worse for the Russians.

Yes better when Russians surrender they will get foods and waters. And most importantly, alive. They can go back to their families one day.


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Stryker1982 said:


> I might actually die of cringe for Russia, and the disaster that has befallen them if UKR takes back Kubyansk and Izyum.
> 
> One could ask what Russia is spending $80 billion/year on exactly for it's military budget.


So the "Generals" (Yes-Sayer) are fed and can buy luxury apartments in the West.


----------



## sammuel

Viet said:


> Very possible
> Those 30k russian troops at Cherson are trapped west of the river. Just a matter of days until they run out of foods, waters, ammo.



For few weeks now Ukraine have threaten to attack Kherson.

Russians pored more troops for reinforcement , than Ukraine blow up the bridges over the Dnieper river , trapping a lot of Russians in Kherson.

Could be the Russian where fooled big time in Kherson and this could cost them dearly.

~


----------



## Viet

sammuel said:


> For few weeks now Ukraine have threaten to attack Kherson.
> 
> Russians pored more troops for reinforcement , than Ukraine blow up the bridges over the Dnieper river , trapping a lot of Russians in Kherson.
> 
> Could be the Russian where fooled big time in Kherson and this could cost them dearly.
> 
> ~


War is always deception. The Ukraine twin attack on Charkiw follows classical war book. Interesting, the russians did not know it, probably too dumb.


----------



## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> It almost looked like the Russian was zoned out in the end -- watch it without any volume, and you get an eerie feeling.


He probably is.......

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## jhungary

A reliable source told me (And later an ex-US General said the same thing on an CNN interview) said that the troop that was used for the Kharkiv Push is TDF brigades, not Regular Force. 

That is interesting development. that mean they have not committed the 2 regular Brigade (93 and 81 Airmobile Brigade) was not in the fight.....both were known to have operate in Izyum direction. And both are offensive brigade. It makes you wonder what the Ukrainians are going to do after this. Right now, it's an operational pause to consolidate the gain. Expect some more fighting in the next week in the East.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569594788579532806


----------



## jhungary

Russia ‘fires army commander after just 16 days’ amid major losses in Kharkiv


Ukraine says a ‘series of defeats’ inflicted by its armed forces led to the change in leadership




www.independent.co.uk





Putin ‘fires army commander after just 16 days’ amid major losses in Kharkiv​
Well, looks like Putin want to start a game "How long can you last" within the Russian Military.......

As the old saying goes, if you have to keep replacing your commander, that's not the commander that have problem, it was your plan.....But then how many general Russia have to replace before they realise that??

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569644369581334528

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569630433251409921

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I speak the truth.



This is why I like you. You are not afraid to speak truth.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569665099367067648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569632707520380930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569668232067293186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569629196317560835

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569661348430086146

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569355014128148486


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569665099367067648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569632707520380930
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569668232067293186
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569629196317560835



LMAO at this point it is just Russia throwing random figures and claims left and right out of their bottom.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569605840486764544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569636260892876800
https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1569655041581015040?s=20&t=06Y4wN9K2-hFZ1FYX3yAzA

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569637897006977026

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569665957567598599

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## alimobin memon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569665099367067648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569632707520380930
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569668232067293186
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569629196317560835


Im liking this drama that whenever something in favor of russians is posted its all lie. but social media says 10000 russians soldiers killed in week then that must be true. Although was is not going in favor these days for russians its most probably true that ukraine is suffering great loses not easy to recover.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569637897006977026


for knowledge purpose why su 25 is firing rockets in air.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569602948145057794


alimobin memon said:


> for knowledge purpose why su 25 is firing rockets in air.



Ballistics. There's a computer that calculates the trajectory of the rocket based on gravity.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569408346691616770


----------



## alimobin memon

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569602948145057794
> 
> 
> Ballistics. There's a computer that calculates the trajectory of the rocket based on gravity.


Precision wise is it effective ? never seen west doing it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

alimobin memon said:


> Precision wise is it effective ? never seen west doing it.



The shooting is done by a computer controlled autopilot. It is much more accurate than manual shooting done by a person like with Il-2 Sturmovik in WW2.

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## LeGenD

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Nope. Here in Canada there are plenty of Ukrainians and they are pussies because they didn't grow up in war and destruction like the people in Ukraine did.


Why don't you go to Ukraine and join Russians to see if Ukrainians can fight or they are p******?

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## thetutle

alimobin memon said:


> Precision wise is it effective ? never seen west doing it.



Why do you think that is?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The shooting is done by a computer controlled autopilot. It is much more accurate than manual shooting done by a person like with Il-2 Sturmovik in WW2.



You heard it here folks. the method is more accurate than WW2 era accuracy.


----------



## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Why don't you go to Ukraine and join Russians to see if Ukrainians can fight or they are p******?



You are expecting someone who said this



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The shooting is done by a computer controlled autopilot. It is much more accurate than manual shooting done by a person like with Il-2 Sturmovik in WW2.



When it is because the Su-25 unload their payload miles ahead because of the Anti-Air Threat (Which has discussed many, many time) and you are expecting said person will give a reasonable discussion...

LOL

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> Russia ‘fires army commander after just 16 days’ amid major losses in Kharkiv
> 
> 
> Ukraine says a ‘series of defeats’ inflicted by its armed forces led to the change in leadership
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin ‘fires army commander after just 16 days’ amid major losses in Kharkiv​
> Well, looks like Putin want to start a game "How long can you last" within the Russian Military.......
> 
> As the old saying goes, if you have to keep replacing your commander, that's not the commander that have problem, it was your plan.....But then how many general Russia have to replace before they realise that??


Well they have 1100 generals. So he has plenty more to go round .


----------



## alimobin memon

thetutle said:


> Why do you think that is?
> 
> 
> 
> You heard it here folks. the method is more accurate than WW2 era accuracy.


Russians lack precision weapons that is clearly stated in different articles by western weapon experts. this is the reason they are using rockets which I would never think are effective as much as PGM.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569665957567598599



look at these troops. their equipment. very telling.



alimobin memon said:


> Russians lack precision weapons that is clearly stated in different articles by western weapon experts. this is the reason they are using rockets which I would never think are effective as much as PGM.


yep. there you go.


----------



## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> Russians lack precision weapons that is clearly stated in different articles by western weapon experts. this is the reason they are using rockets which I would never think are effective as much as PGM.


There is a reason why you never think they are effective, because they are not. 

If you firing rocket like that, that's already unguided, you factor in ballistic drop and target accuracy, it would hardly be able to land close to your target, let alone hitting them. 

This is ground equivalent of "Spray and Prey"



thetutle said:


> look at these troops. their equipment. very telling.
> 
> 
> yep. there you go.


Lyman was encircled by 3 sides last I heard, there are no way Russia can hold on to Lyman, Lyman is going to fall, the only thing is, will it fall like Kupiansk and Izyum or will the Russian try to do a Sieverodonetsk or even a Mariupol to sacrifice the unit to hold the Ukrainian at bay for as long as possible so the Russian on other part of the line have more time to dig in.



Primus said:


> Well they have 1100 generals. So he has plenty more to go round .


Hence the game "How long can you last?"


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569408346691616770


Nice. Another chance to turn them into fertilizer for the ukranian sunflowers 🌻


----------



## jhungary

Saw a video on The Telegraph






At 1:10 They said "Ukraine is struggling to move all of the Abandoned Russian equipment from Kharkiv"

Probably the only struggle Ukrainian Force encountered throughout the entire counteroffensive.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Saw a video on The Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 1:10 They said "Ukraine is struggling to move all of the Abandoned Russian equipment from Kharkiv"
> 
> Probably the only struggle Ukrainian Force encountered throughout the entire counteroffensive.



I heard they took 2 villages on the Russian side in Belgorod area.


----------



## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Saw a video on The Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 1:10 They said "Ukraine is struggling to move all of the Abandoned Russian equipment from Kharkiv"
> 
> Probably the only struggle Ukrainian Force encountered throughout the entire counteroffensive.



Over 500 pieces of equipment since September 1. Multiple brigades worth of equipment

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

jhungary said:


> Saw a video on The Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 1:10 They said "Ukraine is struggling to move all of the Abandoned Russian equipment from Kharkiv"
> 
> Probably the only struggle Ukrainian Force encountered throughout the entire counteroffensive.




I am curious how Biden will kill Putin.

Will it be like Hitler or Saddam or Gaddafi or OBL?

Fingers crossed.



F-22Raptor said:


> Over 500 pieces of equipment since September 1. Multiple brigades worth of equipment



Ukraine's next target is Moscow.

Putin's days are numbered now.


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Over 500 pieces of equipment since September 1. Multiple brigades worth of equipment


I counted 10 T-72 in this video alone.....That's an Armor Company.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569642045991518208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569614828729253889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569625316716339201

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## Viet

Primus said:


> Well they have 1100 generals. So he has plenty more to go round .


Putin replacing generals means little to nothing, won’t change anything. He acts like Hitler. Hitler changed generals by generals. The fronts collapsing faster than he replaced the generals.
Can Putin send reinforcements? No.
Unless he gives up the lie with special military ops shit, he can’t send fresh recruits and reserves to Ukraine.

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Over 500 pieces of equipment since September 1. Multiple brigades worth of equipment


And that remind me of a joke circulating in some Telegram channel.

It takes a Russian invasion for Ukraine to get the Russian T-90. (Russian refused to sell T-90 to Ukraine )


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569702241904521218

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Unless he gives up the lie with special military ops shit, he can’t send fresh recruits and reserves to Ukraine.


He can't.

General mobilisation mean he HAS TO draft Russian middle cast who lives in St Petersburg or Moscow to war. Right now, war happens on TV for the Russian middle cast, and Russian state TV are doing their hardest to insulate the Middle Cast from even knowing Russia is at war with Ukraine, the Russian media spin the war like Russia is merely helping DNR/LPR but instead of taking an active role in the war..

The reason is, Putin know if he started to draft these people into the military, the pushback is going to be 10 times more than trying to "Seduce" fringe kids or ethnic kids to war by the promise of big payday. That's because middle cast won't buy that big payday BS, which mean if he done that, it will instantly turn the biggest group of Russian against him. This is probably what Putin feared most, not NATO, not his oligarch friends, Putin fear the middle cast Russian...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> He can't.
> 
> General mobilisation mean he HAS TO draft Russian middle cast who lives in St Petersburg or Moscow to war. Right now, war happens on TV for the Russian middle cast, and Russian state TV are doing their hardest to insulate the Middle Cast from even knowing Russia is at war with Ukraine, the Russian media spin the war like Russia is merely helping DNR/LPR but instead of taking an active role in the war..
> 
> The reason is, Putin know if he started to draft these people into the military, the pushback is going to be 10 times more than trying to "Seduce" fringe kids or ethnic kids to war by the promise of big payday. That's because middle cast won't buy that big payday BS, which mean if he done that, it will instantly turn the biggest group of Russian against him. This is probably what Putin feared most, not NATO, not his oligarch friends, Putin fear the middle cast Russian...



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine and has millions of employed men. Russia has enough man power for war even without a draft. The new 3rd Corps has about 20,000 men recruited from unemployed men. They are rewarded plots of land they take in Ukraine. That is good motivation.


----------



## beast89

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569644369581334528


iranian drones hunting the "game changers", Iran couldn't ask for better marketing

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569430258650173440

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> He can't.
> 
> General mobilisation mean he HAS TO draft Russian middle cast who lives in St Petersburg or Moscow to war. Right now, war happens on TV for the Russian middle cast, and Russian state TV are doing their hardest to insulate the Middle Cast from even knowing Russia is at war with Ukraine, the Russian media spin the war like Russia is merely helping DNR/LPR but instead of taking an active role in the war..
> 
> The reason is, Putin know if he started to draft these people into the military, the pushback is going to be 10 times more than trying to "Seduce" fringe kids or ethnic kids to war by the promise of big payday. That's because middle cast won't buy that big payday BS, which mean if he done that, it will instantly turn the biggest group of Russian against him. This is probably what Putin feared most, not NATO, not his oligarch friends, Putin fear the middle cast Russian...


I think he will do. Russia middle class will feel the pains, they can no longer travel to EU. previously they can go to Paris for shopping. Passe’, finito. Visa fee now for 80 euros that is half of Russia monthly minimum wage. If they can get it. Processing can take months.









Visa-Erleichterungen für Russen ab sofort ausgesetzt


Russische Bürger profitieren von diesem Montag an nicht mehr von einer erleichterten Visa-Vergabe für Reisen nach Deutschland und in andere Staaten des...




www.sueddeutsche.de


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569691021348413440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569708995425837062


Viet said:


> I think he will do. Russia middle class will feel the pains, they can no longer travel to EU. previously they can go to Paris for shopping. Passe’, finito. Visa fee now for 80 euros that is half of Russia monthly minimum wage. If they can get it. Processing can take months.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Visa-Erleichterungen für Russen ab sofort ausgesetzt
> 
> 
> Russische Bürger profitieren von diesem Montag an nicht mehr von einer erleichterten Visa-Vergabe für Reisen nach Deutschland und in andere Staaten des...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sueddeutsche.de



EU is poor compared to China. China has way better malls than EU.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569709589938978819


----------



## jhungary

@Viet

Seems like a lot of Pro-Russian blogger have the same thought as you. They want General Mobilisation in Russia to stop this, and expecting Putin for an answer....

I'll say, Putin should give it to them see how far he can go lol...

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> @Viet
> 
> Seems like a lot of Pro-Russian blogger have the same thought as you. They want General Mobilisation in Russia to stop this, and expecting Putin for an answer....
> 
> I'll say, Putin should give it to them see how far he can go lol...


He will. Reasons:

1. He runs out of soldiers. No reserves. The entire land army is deployed, most of them are dead, wounded, defected, while the rest are hungry, desperate.

2. Same for mercenaries, fanatics, neonazi, facist groups. they are all decimated.

3. Russia economy is in freefall. Energy prices in freefall. He runs out of money.

4. Russia money reserves run out. Look at Russia budget deficit: it runs from surplus to giant deficits. $6 billion per month that’s unsustainable.





__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com

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## MeFishToo

Someone donated much needed equipment outside the russian embassy in Finland.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569705184242110464

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> it will instantly turn the biggest group of Russian against him. This is probably what Putin feared most, not NATO, not his oligarch friends, Putin fear the middle cast Russian..hat will the middle class do to him that he should fear that much? are they armed? are they



What will the middle class do to him? are they armed? Are they powerful? Are they ready to die in the streets to stop him?



beast89 said:


> iranian drones hunting the "game changers", Iran couldn't ask for better marketing



if they perform. 



Viet said:


> Visa fee now for 80 euros that is half of Russia monthly minimum wage. If they can get it. Processing can take months.



I down think 80 euros is a very big barrier for any russian that already has the money to go shopping in Europe.


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## Viet

thetutle said:


> What will the middle class do to him? are they armed? Are they powerful? Are they ready to die in the streets to stop him?
> 
> 
> 
> if they perform.
> 
> 
> 
> I down think 80 euros is a very big barrier for any russian that already has the money to go shopping in Europe.


Getting visa is no longer easy. The EU says it will scan every russian if they can pose security threat. But true, if they can afford to shop in Paris then 80 euros fee is too little. The EU should increase to 200 euros.
By the way getting visa is easier for russian oppositions, journalists.


----------



## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569359018828644356looks like a teenager between the ages of 18-20 send to Ukraine to fight.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569705184242110464




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569714972266995715

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> What will the middle class do to him? are they armed? Are they powerful? Are they ready to die in the streets to stop him?


The same question is as why Yanukovych got forced out of job from Euromaidan. 

The Middle Class is the biggest group in Russia and Ukraine. The reason why Putin start this war is exactly so there are million people protest in Red Square. But then Russia do not just have 1 million Middle Cast people, they have around 50 million....

People's power. And for a mafia state like Russia, you can only survive if the people either listen to you, or don't care. This will be another problem if you try to draft the middle cast.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Getting visa is no longer easy. The EU says it will scan every russian if they can pose security threat. But true, if they can afford to shop in Paris then 80 euros fee is too little. The EU should increase to 200 euros.
> By the way getting visa is easier for russian oppositions, journalists.



Chinese beach is just as good as Italian and French beach. EU's loss of tourism is China's gain.


----------



## Ali_Baba

MeFishToo said:


> Someone donated much needed equipment outside the russian embassy in Finland.
> View attachment 878798



Ukraine should just say it will give a free new fridge to every Russian soldier that surrenders... that will bring the war to an end much quicker and cheaper for everyone ...


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine should just say it will give a free new fridge to every Russian soldier that surrenders... that will bring the war to an end much quicker and cheaper for everyone ...



China makes best fridges in the world.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569636399338475520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569637431183568897
The US, UK, and Ukraine war gamed the counteroffensive and knew it would work

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569746783827369985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569737443753984001


----------



## Broccoli

jhungary said:


> @Viet
> 
> Seems like a lot of Pro-Russian blogger have the same thought as you. They want General Mobilisation in Russia to stop this, and expecting Putin for an answer....
> 
> I'll say, Putin should give it to them see how far he can go lol...



One reason why they haven't committed general mobilisation is that equipment for such big froces don't exist, many people also point out that Russian logistics couldn't handle more soldiers, they can give all new soldiers AK variant and old fashioned steel helmet but that's just cannon fodder. Russian demographics won't allow suicidal mass attacks.


----------



## The SC

According to Russia..the Ukrainians are going to start a big offensive in the south tonight..


----------



## Broccoli

Big losses and this is just one division. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569655969814298630

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> According to Russia..the Ukrainians are going to start a big offensive in the south tonight..



Russia has lost this conflict, and I was hoping it'll last a little longer before the West turns their guns on us peasant Muslims.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese beach is just as good as Italian and French beach. EU's loss of tourism is China's gain.


China just has Hainan. No comparison to beaches in France, Spain, Italy.
Chinese will ask for visa, money from the russians too if they want to bath. Don’t forget to tell them to make Pcr tests in series and be put in corona intern camps in China. 
Chinese state police will monitor them 24/7. any russian that survives those tortures can swim.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569741293445595138

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569741293445595138



It is a fantastic opportunity for the USA to test out their new capabilities on real targets(Russians) at zero risk to itself - and use this to develop the next generation of doctrines and intelligence gathering techniques.

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## gambit

Ali_Baba said:


> It is a fantastic opportunity for the USA to test out their new capabilities on real targets(Russians) at zero risk to itself - and use this to develop the next generation of doctrines and intelligence gathering techniques.


It is alleged that the Ukrainian counteroffensive measures had a lot US Army Special Forces contributions.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569618856687058945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569619513041190915

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569620233261817856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569621227542642691

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569621714346147847

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569639365655072770

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## ZeGerman

How long would it take to reintegrate these captured tanks/howitzers @jhungary ?
Into new ukranian BTG? Seems like they have enough to fuel another offensive just from russias generous donations

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569640170562912259

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569647344282378240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569658125824786434

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569679556629467137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569707532687478784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569711880675139585

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## aziqbal

I always feel when Russians are on the back foot its the calm before the storm 

and that a massive Red Army counter offensive is coming like Operation Uranus during Stalingrad when Wehrmacht went too deep and got encircled and wiped out 

you just cannot right Russia off historical speaking they always come back because they have a huge appetite to take casualties and come back

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## zartosht

MeFishToo said:


> An average working person in Scandinavia brings in atleast $3000 after taxes per month. $100 extra on fuel doesnt really hurt most of us. People depending on transfer income might have a hard time - as always - but they are not the average people.





thetutle said:


> Your facts mean nothing and will fall on deaf ears to any person swallowing the offical Moscow line. Particularly some of the Iranian forumers, who are quite convinced that europeans will be starving and freezing to death this winter. Its just cluelessness together with wishful thinking.








1 in 5 brits cant afford food/gas






MAybe send some of your over abundant danish pastry to your euro bros who are struggling. 






The middle class in the west is dying. Your going down to 2 groups. the tiny 0.5% super rich, and everybody else hand to mouth peasants..... kind of like the middle ages..

definitly send some pastries their way. They seem to be struggling far more then the average internet millionaire here from the west pretending they are rich/unbothered by record high inflation that is destroying a signifcant part of the western population

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569725397863993346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569727630189936641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569734765200248839

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569736199413309442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569736417047101441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569739016995569664

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## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> How long would it take to reintegrate these captured tanks/howitzers @jhungary ?
> Into new ukranian BTG? Seems like they have enough to fuel another offensive just from russias generous donations


it take as much as they find crew for the tanks . they are exactly the same tanks Ukrainian themselves use


----------



## The SC




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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569742426469720066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569743311690252292

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569768629696069638

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## MeFishToo

zartosht said:


> 1 in 5 brits cant afford food/gas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MAybe send some of your over abundant danish pastry to your euro bros who are struggling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The middle class in the west is dying. Your going down to 2 groups. the tiny 0.5% super rich, and everybody else hand to mouth peasants..... kind of like the middle ages..
> 
> definitly send some pastries their way. They seem to be struggling far more then the average internet millionaire here from the west pretending they are rich/unbothered by record high inflation that is destroying a signifcant part of the western population


I dont know why youre labelling someone an internet millionaire because an extra $100 on fuel per month doesnt bankrupt you. 
Our household income is pretty much average for working scandinavians our age, $7000 after taxes. We spend an average of $350 on fuel (we both commute), $120 on electricity and $160 on district heating per month.

The major household burden in Denmark is rent or mortgage, if you choose to live close to or in larger cities.

Energy is heavily taxed by the state in Denmark. Im sure my ”euro bros” can manage. Cost of living and salaries varies in EU countries.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukrainians are much tougher than Russians. Ukrainians grew up in war and destruction. Russians grew up spoiled. Russians compared to Ukrainians are pussies. Only Chechens can go mano y mano with Ukrainians.


Did somebody steal your login? Or after leaving 400s pieces of equipment you changed your mind about Russians?

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## aviator_fan

Back to Afghanistan and Iraq again? Those were stupid wars by neo-cons to re-draw the map in a distant land that failed miserably. What it did accomplish in Iraq was remove a permanent threat to Israel from Saddam.

What about Vietnam from 79: they were right next door. They are a thriving



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine and has millions of employed men. Russia has enough man power for war even without a draft. The new 3rd Corps has about 20,000 men recruited from unemployed men. They are rewarded plots of land they take in Ukraine. That is good motivation.


China had 8x the population of Vietnam in 1979: where did that help China. ZERO.
Israel is surrounded by population many times its own size and has not been run over.

USSR was 20x the population of Afghanistan in1979. So mister 'forever war, bigger population wins' you really need to go and spend a bit of time reading past conflicts.



zartosht said:


> 1 in 5 brits cant afford food/gas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MAybe send some of your over abundant danish pastry to your euro bros who are struggling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The middle class in the west is dying. Your going down to 2 groups. the tiny 0.5% super rich, and everybody else hand to mouth peasants..... kind of like the middle ages..
> 
> definitly send some pastries their way. They seem to be struggling far more then the average internet millionaire here from the west pretending they are rich/unbothered by record high inflation that is destroying a signifcant part of the western population


sure believe whatever your single isolated youtube videos tell you. Home prices are at historical highs. Car inventory are low. And obesity unfortunately is at 40%. And european airports were overcrowded with vacationers in the summer to where airlines were told to reduce the flights. I think the problem is there is too much pastry so may be you can have some for your countrymen

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569691021348413440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569708995425837062
> 
> 
> EU is poor compared to China. China has way better malls than EU.


100s of thousands of your countrymen will disagree. Before COVID forced them to be prisoners in CHina, they were going by the plane load over to Europe. You could not go anywhere in London or Paris with tour buses with Chinese visitors at the main shopping areas. I think those that spend money and travel in China know something your censors won't tell you.

And also, pls name one luxury global Chinese brand that other people covet from outside of China whereas all Chinese like the Western luxury brands.

I like China but your superlative statements are lies. Keep plugging away and I will keep correcting

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569792703528935425

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## Vergennes

Another level of "cope caging"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569705677488111618
As Ukraine pushes more into Kharkiv province we still decover abandoned and destroyed russian hardware....

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese beach is just as good as Italian and French beach. EU's loss of tourism is China's gain.


More delusion, nobody from Europe or America are going to China on vacation.
What about those lock downs?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569512156399288323

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569806669353189382
Another huge day of Russian losses…83.

Almost at 6,000 losses for the entire war

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Another level of "cope caging"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569705677488111618
> As Ukraine pushes more into Kharkiv province we still decover abandoned and destroyed russian hardware....






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569372276067295232

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569372276067295232



How’s that Russian offensive going Hassan?  Russia has now lost 600 pieces of armor and equipment since September 1 and the entire Kharkiv Oblast. Your on a sinking ship and don’t even realize it.

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> How’s that Russian offensive going Hassan?  Russia has now lost 600 pieces of armor and equipment since September 1 and the entire Kharkiv Oblast. Your on a sinking ship and don’t even realize it.



After being exterminated in Ukraine seems like Kadyrov is sending another wave of his tiktok regiments. It's going to be even funnier.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569726934640218114

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569795709666267138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569799812718936064


----------



## The SC

PakFactor said:


> Russia has lost this conflict, and I was hoping it'll last a little longer before the West turns their guns on us peasant Muslims.


Translate this..


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569816002728267778

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569728880755212290
Seems like Ukraine could open another front this time in Zaporijia.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569803937951137797


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569804651498717185

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Wood



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## mmr

zartosht said:


> 1 in 5 brits cant afford food/gas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MAybe send some of your over abundant danish pastry to your euro bros who are struggling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The middle class in the west is dying. Your going down to 2 groups. the tiny 0.5% super rich, and everybody else hand to mouth peasants..... kind of like the middle ages..
> 
> definitly send some pastries their way. They seem to be struggling far more then the average internet millionaire here from the west pretending they are rich/unbothered by record high inflation that is destroying a signifcant part of the western population


Lol are you describing Iran?

Lmao middle class dying? Dude average house here is million dollar and there are bidding war on every house sell. And most are middle class buyers.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569746783827369985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569715441844584455

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569393385949077505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569691212340252672

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> How long would it take to reintegrate these captured tanks/howitzers @jhungary ?
> Into new ukranian BTG? Seems like they have enough to fuel another offensive just from russias generous donations


Assuming the Russian did not spike those guns (like putting a C4 inside the barrel or temper with it) before leaving them for the Ukrainian. It won't take long, for Field Artillery, you basically just tow it and have ammunition ready, and they are ready to go. For SPG, that's a bit longer because you need to make sure those track and engine does work, and the gun is in ready to fire position, then all it takes is to get it to the unit you are going to give it to and they can use it. 

That's because Ukrainian operate Soviet/Russian equipment to begin with, they are most likely properly trained with those system (like S30, 2S3, 2S19 and so on) 

The question however, is do they want to? Ukraine has expanded almost their entire Russian munition stock, and the west don't supply as much Soviet munition to Ukraine than NATO standard munition, so at some point there are going to be more NATO munition than Soviet Stock, right now I think they can still use it, and depends on the ammo dump they captured, they can probably use it a while, but if the stock is low, it's more sensible to use these captured weapon in a defensive role than in an offensive role, like putting them into reserve. 

About another push and another offensive. As I mentioned some post ago, the Ukrainian are using TDF brigade instead of their regular brigade, none of the 3 regular brigade were used in this push, (93 mech, 81 Airmobile and 53 Mech were known to have operate in Izyum direction conducting offensive operation) Which suggest the Ukrainian is holding back, now I don't know if they held back those unit, it could be for any reason, from giving them a strategic break and do some R and O, or they want to redeploy them somewhere in the line, or holding them back to act as reserve for this offensive, I don't know, all I know is if the Ukrainian want to continue on with this counter offensive, they still have fresh manpower to do this.

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## PakFactor

Wood said:


>



Two words: Fucked up

But it did have me laughing: you cut our balls? 

I don’t know how the individual on the other line held himself from laughing cause had it been me on the line, and I would’ve said unconventional stuff.

Honestly, the Taliban had more guts in them than the Russians. But still, I’m cheering for the Russians.


----------



## jhungary

Broccoli said:


> One reason why they haven't committed general mobilisation is that equipment for such big froces don't exist, many people also point out that Russian logistics couldn't handle more soldiers, they can give all new soldiers AK variant and old fashioned steel helmet but that's just cannon fodder. Russian demographics won't allow suicidal mass attacks.


That's why the Middle Cast is anti-war, much like middle cast in any countries....


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> That's why the Middle Cast is anti-war, much like middle cast in any countries....



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine, with millions of unemployed. They don't need a full mobilization to have sufficient man power. The new 3rd corps is a good example. With incentive of cash or even reward of plots of land in Ukraine, as well as a chance to be a hero which ups your chance of getting a nice lady, plenty of poor and unemployed folks sign up to join.


----------



## nope



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## jhungary

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine, with millions of unemployed. They don't need a full mobilization to have sufficient man power. The new 3rd corps is a good example. With incentive of cash or even reward of plots of land in Ukraine, as well as a chance to be a hero which ups your chance of getting a nice lady, plenty of poor and unemployed folks sign up to join.


Is this a big ask to not to quote me again? And if you do, can you not post the same thing over and over and over and over again.


----------



## nope

lol the upcoming cope will be legendary

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## Bengal71

PakFactor said:


> Russia has lost this conflict,



Not yet. The Russian dog has a lot of fight in it. Refer to WW2 Germany vs USSR war.

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## dBSPL

The occupation in Kharkiv ended. It's hard to believe, but they succeeded. The Ukrainian army is shaping the re-birth of a nation.





_'There is a victory that grows in each failure'_

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## Wood

PakFactor said:


> Two words: Fucked up
> 
> But it did have me laughing: you cut our balls?
> 
> I don’t know how the individual on the other line held himself from laughing cause had it been me on the line, and I would’ve said unconventional stuff.
> 
> Honestly, the Taliban had more guts in them than the Russians. But still, I’m cheering for the Russians.


It may have been an idiom that does not translate well to English. I think that most Russians who actually fight on the frontlines are not too eager to be there. They are not defending their country afterall.


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## LeGenD

Bengal71 said:


> Not yet. The Russian dog has a lot of fight in it. Refer to WW2 Germany vs USSR war.


That was USSR backed by the West. Times have changed.

Some forget that the West flooded USSR with weapons and supplies to fight Germans (Lend-Lease Act). US-backed forces were also attacking and dismantling German lines across Europe.

Some think that Stalingrad turned the tide. No, it didn't. It was symbolic at best.

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## Bengal71

LeGenD said:


> That was USSR backed by the West. Times have changed.



Times has changed or not will be determined when the war is over, not now. Although I must say in WW2 the Russians were defending their homeland, so they had a motivation. Today they are invading, they should not theoretically have the same motivation. If they don't fight as hard as WW2, it's to do with the lack of motivation, not lack of fight in them.

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## LeGenD

Bengal71 said:


> Times has changed or not will be determined when the war is over, not now. Although I must say in WW2 the Russians were defending their homeland, so they had a motivation. Today they are invading, they should not theoretically have the same motivation. If they don't fight as hard as WW2, it's to do with the lack of motivation, not lack of fight in them.


This war is taking place in Russian backyard and Russians feel strongly about absorbing Ukraine due to historical factors. Problem is that Russians have lost more in like 7 months in Ukraine than they did in 10 years in Afghanistan. Imagine this.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569825776790282241

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## thetutle

zartosht said:


> 1 in 5 brits cant afford food/gas



Kat and Sanaa. Hmmm. Sanaa is from an immigrant family, probably an Arab with 7 kids and is a stay at home mum. Let me tell you, she's doing a to better in the UK than she would in her home country. 7 kids, I think millionaires would be struggling with 7 kids. 

Kat is an overweight smoker who complains that food is too expensive. Well, giver her body weight, I would say, it's not expensive enough. She also has a marijuana bracelet, any guesses where her social security money goes to? yes, her local dope dealer. Yes, lay off the drugs, and cigarettes and probably alcohol too and you can maintain your obese lifestyle in the UK.

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## Clutch

Hi, What Are You Looking For?







19FortyFive​
SMART BOMBS: MILITARY, DEFENSE, NATIONAL SECURITY AND MORE​Is The Russian Military Just Giving Up In Ukraine? It Feels Like It​





By
Stavros Atlamazoglou
Published
3 hours ago



















Russian T-90 Tank. Image Credit: Creative Commons.
*Russia’s Ukraine War Is Not Going Well: *After a frantic pace that often outran its own commanders, the Ukrainian counteroffensive in the east has slowed down. The results are astounding. The Ukrainian forces managed to liberate approximately 3,000 square miles of territory, which constitutes more land than the Russian military has managed to capture in the last five months of warfare.
On day 202 of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Ukrainian military is consolidating its gains in the east, clearing out any last pockets of resistance and going through the piles of equipment that the Russian forces left behind on their route.
Moreover, the Ukrainian counteroffensive in the south continues to press forward.
*The Russian Casualties*

The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense claimed that as of Tuesday, Ukrainian forces have killed approximately 53,300 Russian troops (and wounded approximately thrice that number), destroyed 244 fighter, attack, and transport jets, 213 attack and transport helicopters, 2,175 tanks, 1,279 artillery pieces, 4,662 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, 311 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems (MLRS), 15 boats and cutters, 3,469 vehicles and fuel tanks, 165 anti-aircraft batteries, 904 tactical unmanned aerial systems, 117 special equipment platforms, such as bridging vehicles, and four mobile Iskander ballistic missile systems, and 233 cruise missiles shot down by the Ukrainian air defenses.
*There’s a War Going On in the South Too *

Meanwhile in the south, the Ukrainian military continues to push with its counteroffensive toward Kherson. Over the past few weeks, the Ukrainian forces have conducted more than 350 long-range strikes against Russian high value targets, including ammunition dumps, fuel depots, command and control hubs, air-defense positions, electronic warfare systems, and critical infrastructure.
The Ukrainian military is also claiming that some Russian units on the southern front are actively negotiating their surrender in order to save themselves from a similar fate as what happened in the east.

The morale of the Russian forces in Ukraine is at a new low after more than six months of fighting. Left for months without clear objectives and with a dubious explanation as to why they were invading in the first place, the Russian forces now have to account for the devastating superiority of the Ukrainians.
*The Grain Situation*
The Russian invasion of Ukraine has caused global food insecurity and threatened tens of millions with famine. Ukraine is one of the largest producers and exporters of grain in the world, and the war severely affected the Ukrainian agricultural production.




A T-72 B3 tank operated by a crew from Russia jumps during the Tank Biathlon competition at the International Army Games 2020 in Alabino, outside Moscow, Russia September 2, 2020. REUTERS/Maxim Shemetov
After months of negotiations between the two warring parties and the United Nations, an agreement was reached to allow cargo ships carrying Ukrainian grain to leave Odessa, Ukraine’s third-largest city and biggest port.
The cargo ships travel primarily to developing countries in Africa and the Middle East, which are the most dependent on the Ukrainian grain and, thus, the most threatened with famine. However, the Russian government has tried to skew the facts and claim that Kyiv has been instead sending most of the grain to the developed nations of the European Union. This is a clear attempt to use disinformation and drive a wedge between the international front that has been created against Russia because of the invasion.

*Expert Biography:* A _19FortyFive Defense and National Security Columnist, __Stavros Atlamazoglou__ is a seasoned defense journalist specializing in __special operations__, a Hellenic Army veteran (national service with the 575th Marine Battalion and Army HQ), and a Johns Hopkins University graduate. His work has been featured in __Business Insider__, __Sandboxx__, and __SOFREP__._


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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569533294454407168

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## thetutle

zartosht said:


> The middle class in the west is dying. Your going down to 2 groups. the tiny 0.5% super rich, and everybody else hand to mouth peasants..... kind of like the middle ages..
> 
> definitly send some pastries their way. They seem to be struggling far more then the average internet millionaire here from the west pretending they are rich/unbothered by record high inflation that is destroying a signifcant part of the western population


Your own video states that % of middle class has not changed since the 1980's. Gives an example of a black lady who claims she is struggling, she has $100,000 USD yearly family income. spends $200 USD per month on phone and internet. Probably spends more on pet food than the average Iranian earns. Also, look at how fat she is. No struggle for food there I think. 

You can think think what you want of the west, but one thing it is not is poor. why do you think people all over the world are risking their lives to come as illegal migrants to the west?

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## Bengal71

LeGenD said:


> This war is taking place in Russian backyard and Russians feel strongly about absorbing Ukraine due to historical factors. Problem is that Russians have lost more in like 7 months in Ukraine than they did in 10 years in Afghanistan. Imagine this.



I can imagine that but Russia has the ability to do more and absorb far more losses. It will come down to motivation if they are willing to do that. In WW2 they were defending homeland and their independence against the Nazis who considered them subhumans. This time around no matter how much emotion they have, the motivation is not going to be the same as WW2 scenario, the existing Russian homeland is not in threat, if it was then Russia would've the motivation and incentive to fight to the last man.


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## sammuel

LeGenD said:


> That was USSR backed by the West. Times have changed.
> 
> Some forget that the West flooded USSR with weapons and supplies to fight Germans (Lend-Lease Act). US-backed forces were also attacking and dismantling German lines across Europe.
> 
> Some think that Stalingrad turned the tide. No, it didn't. It was symbolic at best.



Also in Stalingrad Russians where protecting their own city and homeland , opposite of what we have here. Where they are the invading army with no real reason to fight.

~


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## thetutle

Wood said:


>


Heartbreaking to hear. Very demoralised. 


Bengal71 said:


> Times has changed or not will be determined when the war is over, not now. Although I must say in WW2 the Russians were defending their homeland, so they had a motivation. Today they are invading, they should not theoretically have the same motivation. If they don't fight as hard as WW2, it's to do with the lack of motivation, not lack of fight in them.


if it was Germany vs Russia in WW2 it would be game over for russia very very quickly. Zero chance for russia. 

What happened in WW2 was the British and American bombers razing German cities day and night while at the same time arming russia like they are arming Ukraine now. UK and US produced 50% of the worlds steel at the time. 

The western allies started the war against Germany and Germany never had a chance. Russia was just the one chosen to sacrifice its people for the cause in return for western support. 

Russian morale was very high in WW2 because russian rear units would shoot ay retreating Russians soldiers.


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## jhungary

Bengal71 said:


> Times has changed or not will be determined when the war is over, not now. Although I must say in WW2 the* Russians were defending their homeland*, so they had a motivation. Today they are invading, they should not theoretically have the same motivation. If they don't fight as hard as WW2, it's to do with the lack of motivation, not lack of fight in them.


Russian is NOT Soviet. Russian is part of Soviet Union, it's the entirety of the union to defend the German invasion in 1943. That's the first mistake. And that's the same mistake when people look at Russian Military and see the lineage of the Red Army. It's like saying Indian Army is the same as British Army in WW2 when none of the Officer were Indian. 

This war, for all intent and purpose, is done, the only way Russia can turn the tides is they can achieve 2 things. 

1.) Have the numeric superiority over Ukrainian, which mean Mobilisation.
2.) Relocate Supply hubs from Belgorod to Rostov or Increase the capacity in Crimea before winter (in about a month) 

Right now, there are more Ukrainian fighting men in operation compare to the Russian, a leaked Russian telegram post said they were outnumbered 8 to 1 in that Kharkiv offensive, well, that's probably an exaggeration, but it would looks like Ukraine formed 4 to 5 new TDF Brigade just to do it, which mean it would be at least 3 to 1 advantage. Which mean Russian has to expand their troop number in Ukraine a whopping 9 times before they can turn the ties (3 times to get back to 1 to 1 and then another 3 times to get it over to 3 to 1 ratio) 

What's more, the entire Northern Logistic Base is gone, now if Russian ship any stuff from Belgorod, it will just end up with the Ukrainian. They would need to build a railway network in Rostov (The next closest supply point) and then establish a staging area in Rostov all before Winter or the Russian troop are going to make with their thumb up their arse in the cold without food, clothes and ammunition, because there are no railway network to Ukraine in Rostov, which mean if Russia want to supply their force in Ukraine, they would need to bring them in by plane or truck, bringing supply by plane in the frontline without air superiority is more or less suicide, and we all know what Russia is capable with Trucks, but this time they can't afford to have a 40 miles convoy, because this time Ukrainian will be waiting with HIMARS and MLRS or even Caesar Artillery system for them. Which mean they would have to relocate and rebuild the entire supply network from Belgorod to Rostov in about a month, even the Chinese cannot do that....

Looks like the only European that is going to get frozen in this winter is the Russian fighting in Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russians are more motivated to fight in the south because of water supply from Dnipr river to Crimea and land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv is not that important. Kharkiv is 20 km from the Russian border. Well within missile range. They just wreck it. Make it uninhabitable and not a threat to Russia.


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> It may have been an idiom that does not translate well to English. I think that most Russians who actually fight on the frontlines are not too eager to be there. They are not defending their country afterall.


It's a phase, mean would you do shit to us (Like beat us or more precisely torture)
It's like in Russian girl will say "Poka Poka (Покa)" instead of bye. This is just the way they say stuff.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569870269191229440

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Post war? Sure. Now? No.....
> 
> At this point Helicopter did not do much for Ukrainian, even tho Russia did not have air superiority, they can still take down those choppers with Su-25 or Su-30. At this point Helicopter is probably a liability rather than asset to the Ukrainian, because when you use them, that mean you need asset to protect them, that also mean you need asset to protect the area you use them with. Better stick with slick ground transport for quite movement for now.



The Ukrainians can use those helos like over the rivers to deliver them behind the lines or find gaps in defensive lines to send in troops to cause chaos. Even with the danger of SAMs or MANPADs. Most likely be using them at night time instead of daytime that led to the fiasco Black Hawk Down. 



jhungary said:


> Maybe they will? We don't know what the US is sending them next. But chances are not high.
> 
> Bear in mind anything you send taking a seat on a C-17 literally, which mean you can either use the space to send in a few Humvees or a few Up Armoured MRAP or even M113. I would prefer the latter than Humvee now.



I was more thinking they could deliver many of them in one go with a large ship from the Merchant Marine or a civilian one. Doesn't take long to transport them and take them to Europe. 











jhungary said:


> 500 is an insane amount, I don't think US State Dept will allow transfer of 500 HIMARS to Poland....
> 
> Nobody other than US and Romania (Which has 56 IIRC) have more than 50. 50 is a very potent number of platform being used. I also think Lockheed Land System can't make 500 in a short time. We gave them 50, which mean we will have to have that 50 back by buying them from LLS. That alone would make Lockheed Production line busy for the next few years....
> 
> IIRC we had approved sale for HIMARS to Taiwan in 2020. Probably 20 systems.



Think they are selling them to Poland, not just donating out of their own stock. Lockheed is producing more of them as you mentioned, close to a hundred a year I believe. 



jhungary said:


> Problem is, I don't see how Russian can hold on to East of Oksil river.
> 
> The majority of the Russian force are either trapped when Izyum-Kupiansk line felt, or fighting in the south near Bakhmut and Siversky. The force that got away is not at all much, you are talking about a division worth or 10 BTG at most. That's nothing. Problem is, lacking defensive position, all they can do is to collect troop that on the way of their retreat, but then how many troops you can gather and mount a proper defence? Not much. Either Russia abandoned the entire Bakhmut and Siversky front and divert those solider to help defend East of Oksil, first of all, this will take time, you don't just disengage and redeploy? Second of all, doing that you basically expose another front the Ukrainian can exploit. Let's not forget how the Russian get into this mess at the begining, they hollow out people too much and when the Ukrainian probe the line, there are no response, and this counter offensive happened.


Not to mention how many Russians are eager to go back into Ukraine in Luhansk region after just fleeing. Sudden U-turn back to hell. Thats why I think the norther Luhansk region is very expose and for the taking prior to winter. Not to mention possible muddy season before or after winter. Think its mostly after when the snow melts.



jhungary said:


> The only thing I can think of is to send the newly Created 3rd Army 20k strong force to try to hold the Oksil front, but again, it take time to deploy and I am not sure it is any quicker to do them from Russia than from pulling troops from Siversky and Bakhmut? what's more, if and when Lyman felt, the Ukrainian are going to roll up from Lyman and Roll East from Kupiansk to competely encircle the Russian, don't forget they have freed up quite a lot of troop now Izyum is theirs and Kharkiv virtually broke the siege, they can spare more force than the original spearhead that make these advance. That's a dangerous game for Russian to play. You can send in the 3rd Army to try to make a different and gamble it will, but if not, then you just used your strategic reserve for nothing.


Or push from north of Kupiansk which the river is narrower and not as deep from looking at the map. Its far behind the Russians fighting in Lyman and other locations in the south of Kharkiv or Luhansk or Donetsk or whatever cities in that area where regional borders meet. 



jhungary said:


> On the other hand, if we say Russian had depleted their force and had to rely on Syria Volunteer and PMC, then DNR/LPR are probably at even more dire strait. They don't have the human resource the Russian have, and they have been boring the blunt of most of the fighting, the attrition rate of those Separatist force are going to be bad, in fact, I think if they had won now and took everything in Donbas (Like Bakhmut, Slovianks Kramatosk and so on) They can't govern those area because they would have problem with the number of military personnel. Their rank is depleted so badly I don't think even if they had won, they wouldn't had anyone to defend the gain.


Yep DNR/LNR are pretty much depleted and out of position if they tried to defend Luhansk or Donetsk later. 



jhungary said:


> Russian have to wait til April next year to have the new draftee in to help with number. Or they can try raising volunteer battalion, which so far we see less than 50, and they are more or less just people getting 4 weeks of training and give them weapon and put them in frontline.
> 
> It would work if you were the Ukrainian because you are defending the country, it's not good if you are tasked to take cities, an act you would not know how to do if you are a US Soldier unless you went thru 16 weeks of Advance Individual Training as a 11B00.


I would say the Ukrainians should during the winter build a long defensive barriers to cover their rear areas at the Ukrainian-Russian border line. Get the personnel from each region and cities to start doing it. Have lots of bulldozers and front loaders and excavators and other vehicles for this. 

1. Build a very large anti tank ditch or trenches about 30 feet wide and 20 feet deep, fill it with anti tank and anti personnel mines. Have the dirt that was dug up act as a berm behind the anti tank ditch and put more mines behind the berms. 
2. Put Dragon's teeth in front of the anti tank ditch. Usually concrete since easy to make.




3. Put metal poles about 50 to 100 feet tall further behind at few hundred yards between with multiple cameras thermal and night vision too to watch the border. Along with border guards and rapid response units if there is a breach or something going on with the Russians.
4. And finally have long range drones that can see far to watch the border.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Next year things are heating up. Russians are waiting for the wunder waffes to come. Ka-52 M and Mi-28 NM sturmoviks are coming next year. These sturmoviks are beasts armed with long range EO and missiles which blast tanks from beyond 10 km. These sturmoviks will turn the tide in Russians favor next year.


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569810748989390850
Seems like they found someone who can talk sense in Russian tv


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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569870269191229440




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569814406707687424

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569712907604082688

Seems like mass mobilization in Russia will also remain a pipe dream

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569712907604082688
> 
> Seems like mass mobilization in Russia will also remain a pipe dream



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine, with millions of unemployed. They don't need a full mobilization to have sufficient man power. The new 3rd corps is a good example. With incentives of cash and reward of plots of land in Ukraine, as well as a chance to be a hero which ups your chance of getting a nice lady, plenty of poor and unemployed folks sign up to join.









3rd Army Corps (Russia) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> What's more, the entire Northern Logistic Base is gone, now if Russian ship any stuff from Belgorod, it will just end up with the Ukrainian. They would need to build a railway network in Rostov (The next closest supply point) and then establish a staging area in Rostov all before Winter or the Russian troop are going to make with their thumb up their arse in the cold without food, clothes and ammunition, because there are no railway network to Ukraine in Rostov, which mean if Russia want to supply their force in Ukraine, they would need to bring them in by plane or truck, bringing supply by plane in the frontline without air superiority is more or less suicide, and we all know what Russia is capable with Trucks, but this time they can't afford to have a 40 miles convoy, because this time Ukrainian will be waiting with HIMARS and MLRS or even Caesar Artillery system for them. Which mean they would have to relocate and rebuild the entire supply network from Belgorod to Rostov in about a month, even the Chinese cannot do that....
> 
> Looks like the only European that is going to get frozen in this winter is the Russian fighting in Ukraine.


If they try to bring in trucks in Luhansk region to support any offense, they will be ambushed by troops waiting besides the ones you mentioned with artillery and missiles.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> If they try to bring in trucks in Luhansk region to support any offense, they will be ambushed by troops waiting besides the ones you mentioned with artillery and missiles.



Luhansk is hardcore rebels. Luhansk rebels are some of the best warriors in the world. They can even kick American army's arse.









Luhansk People's Republic - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> The Ukrainians can use those helos like over the rivers to deliver them behind the lines or find gaps in defensive lines to send in troops to cause chaos. Even with the danger of SAMs or MANPADs. Most likely be using them at night time instead of daytime that led to the fiasco Black Hawk Down.



Normal Blackhawk can't do what you said here. You will need PAVEHAWK to do all that SOF thing. You can try to get a Blackhawk with Night Vision package, but I think you will need to extensively train with the platform before you can pull that out, that would be 160SOAR level of piloting skill to be able to pull that off, unless you are suggest staffing those Blackhawk with US Crew, I don't think Ukrainian pilot can pull that off without years, if not decade, of training.



Oldman1 said:


> I was more thinking they could deliver many of them in one go with a large ship from the Merchant Marine or a civilian one. Doesn't take long to transport them and take them to Europe.



Nah, that would be too slow, you need to give them now, not 2 or 3 months down the road, Sealift only make sense if we can directly put those aid on Ukrainian shore, but seeing our ship is blocked by Turkey when this war is still going on, there are no way we can ship it and unload them in Odessa, it would take too long to have it travel across the Atlantic and the across land over Europe either via the Baltic or Italy.



Oldman1 said:


> Think they are selling them to Poland, not just donating out of their own stock. Lockheed is producing more of them as you mentioned, close to a hundred a year I believe.



I don't know, 500 seems an absurd number, as I said, no one get more than 50, and suddenly they want to buy 500 and US is giving it to them? I just don't think that's likely, I could be wrong tho. 



Oldman1 said:


> Not to mention how many Russians are eager to go back into Ukraine in Luhansk region after just fleeing. Sudden U-turn back to hell. Thats why I think the norther Luhansk region is very expose and for the taking prior to winter. Not to mention possible muddy season before or after winter. Think its mostly after when the snow melts.
> 
> 
> Or push from north of Kupiansk which the river is narrower and not as deep from looking at the map. Its far behind the Russians fighting in Lyman and other locations in the south of Kharkiv or Luhansk or Donetsk or whatever cities in that area where regional borders meet.



You can't launch an offensive with 3rd Army corp alone, not enough men to do that, it's only number around 20,000

The Russian would need them to probably just hold the line, if the Russian is smart, they will put it in Crimea and move North East toward Donetsk and put it in the fight there, That is the only viable front now. Kherson with all the bridge blown is just a matter of time before Russian retreat or surrender, Ukraine could speed up that process by bombarding Kherson with HIMARS or even conventional Artillery, I don't think they wanted that to happen tho. 

Luhansk is what we would called "2 over" Over stretched and over exposed" Luhansk, it would only be a logical front when Russia still hold Izyum and Threaten Kharkiv, without both, and with Kupiansk gone, Ukraine can wrap around the entire front on 2 sides (West and South), making it impossible, all they need is to take Lyman, which again is now surrounded by 3 sides, Lyman is going to fall, it really depends on whether or not the Russian in Lyman want to do something like the Azov done in Mariupol, basically degrade their own unit to buy time so the Russian on other position on the line have more time to dig in. Would the Russian do that? I don't know.

Plus, winter is coming, without Kupiansk and there is no railway network in Rostov and Crimea is too small to support both Kherson and Donbas front, a lot of Russian troops are going to freeze in Winter. The Russian logistic capability has been seriously degraded to I would say probably more than 50% (I think Kupiansk handle more logistic that Crimea and there were only 2 LSP) So this will either very bad for the Russian in the East, or bad in general for all Russian in theatre 



Oldman1 said:


> Yep DNR/LNR are pretty much depleted and out of position if they tried to defend Luhansk or Donetsk later.



Can they still defend Donetsk and Luhansk?? I really doubt that. 



Oldman1 said:


> I would say the Ukrainians should during the winter build a long defensive barriers to cover their rear areas at the Ukrainian-Russian border line. Get the personnel from each region and cities to start doing it. Have lots of bulldozers and front loaders and excavators and other vehicles for this.
> 
> 1. Build a very large anti tank ditch or trenches about 30 feet wide and 20 feet deep, fill it with anti tank and anti personnel mines. Have the dirt that was dug up act as a berm behind the anti tank ditch and put more mines behind the berms.
> 2. Put Dragon's teeth in front of the anti tank ditch. Usually concrete since easy to make.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Put metal poles about 50 to 100 feet tall further behind at few hundred yards between with multiple cameras thermal and night vision too to watch the border. Along with border guards and rapid response units if there is a breach or something going on with the Russians.
> 4. And finally have long range drones that can see far to watch the border.


Well, fighting are not really likely during Winter, traditional, it is used to improve battle position and stuff like that. I would doubt you can make a defensive line on those, you would want more trained troop than fortification to guard the border with both Belarus and Russia. 

But in general term, I think Ukrainian will use the winter to improve their battle position, border won't be matter much, because there are already breach point for Russia to funnel their force, the only thing they need the border for is to launch a new offensive. And I don't think a defence line can hold such an attempt, and the Russian probably won't be raising enough force to do it to begin with anyway.


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## khansaheeb

merzifonlu said:


> Türkiye and Germany and even France, they used all kinds of diplomacy to prevent war. But Putin was not convinced. This is not about the dollar. You cannot occupy people who do not want to live with you and do not dream of a common future with you. This is basically about that!
> 
> Of course, if you make such mistakes, your enemies will also take advantage of it. Also, if we talk specifically about Türkiye, Russia has put obstacles to us at every opportunity. Maybe we wanted Russians to stumble, who knows.


Who wants to live with Nazis?


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568294992052895747

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568294992052895747



Luhansk militia are mostly poor settlers who immigrated from Russia. They are not Ukrainian citizens. They are Russian citizens.


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Normal Blackhawk can't do what you said here. You will need PAVEHAWK to do all that SOF thing. You can try to get a Blackhawk with Night Vision package, but I think you will need to extensively train with the platform before you can pull that out, that would be 160SOAR level of piloting skill to be able to pull that off, unless you are suggest staffing those Blackhawk with US Crew, I don't think Ukrainian pilot can pull that off without years, if not decade, of training.


True, would require the PAVEHAWK kind with those sensors. But I believe the Ukrainian pilots who already know how to fly helos can do a crash course and learn to fly the Blackhawks with NVGs or Blackhawks equipped with something like that. I mean they already flying low on the ground since the war started. 



jhungary said:


> Nah, that would be too slow, you need to give them now, not 2 or 3 months down the road, Sealift only make sense if we can directly put those aid on Ukrainian shore, but seeing our ship is blocked by Turkey when this war is still going on, there are no way we can ship it and unload them in Odessa, it would take too long to have it travel across the Atlantic and the across land over Europe either via the Baltic or Italy.


Was thinking more of going to a port in Poland and take it over the border by trailers. Sure it would take time, but I think it helps in the long run. Whether a month from now or so.



jhungary said:


> I don't know, 500 seems an absurd number, as I said, no one get more than 50, and suddenly they want to buy 500 and US is giving it to them? I just don't think that's likely, I could be wrong tho.


Most likely it would happen but will be piece meal style. 50 here or there each year or 20 or so each year, depending. 



jhungary said:


> You can't launch an offensive with 3rd Army corp alone, not enough men to do that, it's only number around 20,000
> 
> The Russian would need them to probably just hold the line, if the Russian is smart, they will put it in Crimea and move North East toward Donetsk and put it in the fight there, That is the only viable front now. Kherson with all the bridge blown is just a matter of time before Russian retreat or surrender, Ukraine could speed up that process by bombarding Kherson with HIMARS or even conventional Artillery, I don't think they wanted that to happen tho.


Nah they should just keep blowing up ferries and hit awaiting logistical vehicles or other vehicles at the rivers or bases near the river. Pretty much clumping them together and getting blown up.



jhungary said:


> Luhansk is what we would called "2 over" Over stretched and over exposed" Luhansk, it would only be a logical front when Russia still hold Izyum and Threaten Kharkiv, without both, and with Kupiansk gone, Ukraine can wrap around the entire front on 2 sides (West and South), making it impossible, all they need is to take Lyman, which again is now surrounded by 3 sides, Lyman is going to fall, it really depends on whether or not the Russian in Lyman want to do something like the Azov done in Mariupol, basically degrade their own unit to buy time so the Russian on other position on the line have more time to dig in. Would the Russian do that? I don't know.


They can make it 4 sided on Lyman if the Ukrainians crossed the Oskil River further north. Even make the Russians panic and flee and abandon more towns and other settlements in Luhansk.



jhungary said:


> Plus, winter is coming, without Kupiansk and there is no railway network in Rostov and Crimea is too small to support both Kherson and Donbas front, a lot of Russian troops are going to freeze in Winter. The Russian logistic capability has been seriously degraded to I would say probably more than 50% (I think Kupiansk handle more logistic that Crimea and there were only 2 LSP) So this will either very bad for the Russian in the East, or bad in general for all Russian in theatre


Still have the roads but can be pretty dangerous in the Luhansk region by making it like Indian country. As you pointed out the rails to through Crimea is just not able to make up for that alternative route to keep supporting any Donbas offensive for the Russians. 



jhungary said:


> Can they still defend Donetsk and Luhansk?? I really doubt that.


Now or later, pretty much no.



jhungary said:


> Well, fighting are not really likely during Winter, traditional, it is used to improve battle position and stuff like that. I would doubt you can make a defensive line on those, you would want more trained troop than fortification to guard the border with both Belarus and Russia.
> 
> But in general term, I think Ukrainian will use the winter to improve their battle position, border won't be matter much, because there are already breach point for Russia to funnel their force, the only thing they need the border for is to launch a new offensive. And I don't think a defence line can hold such an attempt, and the Russian probably won't be raising enough force to do it to begin with anyway.


It helps to funnel the Russians in one place and have awaiting border guards ready to blow up any vehicles going on a bridge layer instead of Russians able to go to multiple routes. Whether the Russians are willing to try or not, lets not make it easy.


----------



## Oldman1

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568294992052895747


@jhungary 

Saw a video of a captured very young Russian sailor turned tank crewmember with a only a week of training in tanks before being sent into battle.

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## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Luhansk militia are mostly poor settlers who immigrated from Russia. They are not Ukrainian citizens. They are Russian citizens.


Wouldn't matter to the Ukrainian forces now eh?

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## Clutch

aziqbal said:


> I always feel when Russians are on the back foot its the calm before the storm
> 
> and that a massive Red Army counter offensive is coming like Operation Uranus during Stalingrad when Wehrmacht went too deep and got encircled and wiped out
> 
> you just cannot right Russia off historical speaking they always come back because they have a huge appetite to take casualties and come back



Doubt it. This is a different Russia. A broken demoralized Russia that cannot compete in a technological modern battlefield. 


Only option for Russia is to go nuclear. But that will have consequences.

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## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine has exposed America's weakness. Back in the 70s America was 90% white. Now America is 50% white. Non whites simply don't want to fight. If this where 70s Americans can fight in Ukraine like they fought in Vietnam. But now Americans are like meh because of demographic change.


STOP YOUR NONSENSE WITH NO LOGIC
I'M REPORTING YOU FOR YOUR NONSENSE

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568294992052895747


It's getting worse, I was watching a Channel 1 news segment, they started to swing it like this is a DNR/LPR war, they largely blame the DNR/LPR people for the loss, they didn't even mentioned the name Russia on that program (maybe once or twice)

seems like they are trying to isolate Russian involvement from the war. It's not "Their" war, they were just there to help the Russian speaking brothers. And then turn around and blame them for not holding the line. 

Man, I think it's just a matter of time either DPR/LNR people turn on them or the Russian drop these people...


----------



## khansaheeb

merzifonlu said:


> No no no, The balkanization not fine for ANYBODY! Huuuge numbers of immigrants fill your country. This is HUGE disaster. In addition, the Balkanization process creates very productive resources for organizations such as ISIS. It is extremely dangerous.


Plenty of space in Russia for refugees. Most of Russia and Kazakhstan is empty.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> Plenty of space in Russia for refugees. Most of Russia and Kazakhstan is empty.



Also keep in mind back in 1991 Russia had 148 million people and that was without Crimea. Today Russia has 146 million people and that is with Crimea. Russia has space for millions of refugees. In fact, 2 million refugees fled from Ukraine into Russia since 2014 after Euro Maidan.

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569746783827369985
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569715441844584455
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569393385949077505
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569691212340252672


Reading the assessment report this morning. Russia troop retreating from Charkiw to another side of Oskil river bank. that would slow down however won’t stop Ukraine assault. The Oskil river is shallow in some areas, Ukraine troops and armored verhicles can cross.


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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Next year things are heating up. Russians are waiting for the wunder waffes to come. Ka-52 M and Mi-28 NM sturmoviks are coming next year. These sturmoviks are beasts armed with long range EO and missiles which blast tanks from beyond 10 km. These sturmoviks will turn the tide in Russians favor next year.



When an army, any army, loses it's will to fight, there is only one outcome. Missiles and artillery may win battles, but wars are won with boots on the ground.


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## newb3e

if we had a thread running during US AFG war we would be discussing how weak and pussy Americans are and how they are getting their racist arses handed to them! but no Hollywood made sure the fake superiority is projected and people dont talk about how weak American might is!

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## SalarHaqq

Below are some highly eye-opening, fresh indications as to the magnitude of the two sides' *casualties *in the conflict - and both originate from the NATO / Ukrainian camp. 


*Ukrainian casualties *

In a recent interview, Ukrainian general Sergei Gregorievich Krivonos, former deputy commander of Ukrainian reprisal operations in the Donbas under the Poroshenko regime, stated that the Ukrainian military incurred *hundreds of thousands* of losses. Assuming a high wounded to killed ratio of 10 to 1, this would imply at least 20.000 Ukrainian troops lost their lives so far.











Source: https://odysee.com/@STRATPOL:0/bulletin-n°98.-offensive-sur-kherson,:6


*Russian casualties *

In an article published on August 19, 2022 by the Russian-language service of the BBC - which can hardly be suspected of favorable biased towards Moscow, a team of investigative journalists exposed the results of their field research. They established a census of the deceased at cemeteries in Russia, tallied condolence messages, and everything else they could find all over Russia, and they arrived at a figure of *5700* killed.

Casualties among forces of the People's Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk have been higher though.

Using these open sources, we notice that their findings echo the Russian narrative. Indeed, the bulk of Russian casualties occurred in the early stages of the conflict, when Russia was conduct classic maneuver warfare on the entire front lines and not merely in border regions. Then, as Russia opted for new tactics focusing predominantly on artillery fire, its losses decreased considerably. This corresponds to the declaration of the Russian Ministry of Defence, which stressed that Russian advances have slowed down because the high command is bent on sparing the lives of Russian soldiers as well as of civilians taken hostage by Ukrainian militias.

We have other coherent data, such as that casualties were comparatively most frequent among Russian paratroopers, which is logical. For this is part of the reason why they are considered elite troops - when you are parachuted, you aren't protected as when you are in an MBT. Russian paratroopers do field their own IFV's, but these have relatively light armor.

(Un)surprisingly, this BBC report was hardly relayed by the streamlined mainstream media.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> True, would require the PAVEHAWK kind with those sensors. But I believe the Ukrainian pilots who already know how to fly helos can do a crash course and learn to fly the Blackhawks with NVGs or Blackhawks equipped with something like that. I mean they already flying low on the ground since the war started.



lol, it's different, I can fly a Bell Ranger 50 ft above ground during the morning (I actually can), that does not mean if they give me a Blackhawk and I can replicate the same manoeuvre on it. There are a lot of different factors on flying an aircraft. You have different speed, rate of climb, dimension, power/thrust, avionic and such, all that are going to change when you switch from flying from one platform to another. 

Just because Ukrainian pilot can fly low on a Mi-24 or 35, that does not make it able to do the same on a Blackhawk. 



Oldman1 said:


> Was thinking more of going to a port in Poland and take it over the border by trailers. Sure it would take time, but I think it helps in the long run. Whether a month from now or so.




Polish port can't really handle that much logistic, also you are not going to win a 1,3,5 battle with ship, you need to overwhelm your enemy with supplies and platform, the only way to do it is fly them into Europ and truck them across. 

By the time your ship dock in Europe, the list of weapon Ukraine need may have already changed.


Oldman1 said:


> Most likely it would happen but will be piece meal style. 50 here or there each year or 20 or so each year, depending.



Again, I don't know, I am just saying it seems impossible, as I said, I could be wrong.



Oldman1 said:


> Nah they should just keep blowing up ferries and hit awaiting logistical vehicles or other vehicles at the rivers or bases near the river. Pretty much clumping them together and getting blown up.



Well, some of my source of high position in Thr Southern Military command said Russian in the South is close to surrendering, the news of the Northern Front collapse did not go well with troop in the South. 

So probably we should just wait and see, but if Russia decided to fight it out, this would be a bloody battle, may even be Mariupol bloody, The Ukrainian said they are ready for it, so it's just whether or not the Russia is going down that road. 



Oldman1 said:


> They can make it 4 sided on Lyman if the Ukrainians crossed the Oskil River further north. Even make the Russians panic and flee and abandon more towns and other settlements in Luhansk.



I have looked at the map like 10 times already, and looking at troop deposition in and around East of Oksil, I just can't see how Russia can hold on to any of that. Before or after this winter. 

What people don't realise is, the reason why Ukrainian make such a big progress is not just because Russia thinning out their troop, that's part of the equation, another big part is the Ukrainian Artillery and MLRS have pushed Russian Artillery outside the 30 km zone that can support the entire front, some analyst even put Russian Artillery were pushed 20 to 30 km inside Russian border. That's why they buckle without a fight. 

Russian without Artillery support is like an ant without any direction, you don't know where to go, and what to do, but if you stay and fight, and you can't call artillery/air support, well, you are going to die....

That has not change as Russian move to the Eastern bank of Oksil, they still are just infantry, and they don't have much infantry to begin with. I wouldn't be surprise if Ukraine launch another Combine Arms Assault into East of Oksil the Russian line would probably buckle again.




Oldman1 said:


> Still have the roads but can be pretty dangerous in the Luhansk region by making it like Indian country. As you pointed out the rails to through Crimea is just not able to make up for that alternative route to keep supporting any Donbas offensive for the Russians.



Roads are an option, not the best option but is an option, on the brighter side, Road in the East is not like the Road in the North, flanked by tree and narrow bridges. But still it would be a problem, and now Ukraine have MLRS and HIMARS. It would be mostly foolish to try that again.



Oldman1 said:


> It helps to funnel the Russians in one place and have awaiting border guards ready to blow up any vehicles going on a bridge layer instead of Russians able to go to multiple routes. Whether the Russians are willing to try or not, lets not make it easy.



Yeah, but then it also funnel Ukrainian troop. Unless they are blinded like Kharkiv again (Which I don't think they will fail twice) they know how you try to funnel them and they will just choose another spot to attack. Ukraine can't put troop and secure all the border with both Belarus and Russia. Which mean there are going to be gap, if and when Russia round that, they are going to exploit it. 

But then that is assume they still have the required combat power to pull this off, most likely, nope.



SalarHaqq said:


> Below are some extremely eye-opening, fresh indications as to the magnitude of the two sides' *casualties (KIA)* in the conflict - and both originate from the NATO / Ukrainian camp.
> 
> 
> *Ukrainian casualties *
> 
> In a recent interview, Ukrainian general Sergei Gregorievich Krivonos, former deputy commander of Ukrainian reprisal operations in the Donbas under the Poroshenko regime, stated that *hundreds of thousands* of Ukrainians troops have been killed.
> 
> View attachment 878999
> 
> View attachment 879000
> 
> 
> Source: https://odysee.com/@STRATPOL:0/bulletin-n°98.-offensive-sur-kherson,:6
> 
> 
> *Russian casualties *
> 
> In an article published on August 19, 2022 by the Russian-language service of the BBC - which can hardly be suspected of favorable biased towards Moscow, a team of investigative journalists exposed the results of their field research. They established a census of the deceased at cemeteries in Russia, tallied condolence messages, and everything else they could find all over Russia, and they arrived at a figure of *5700* killed.
> 
> Casualties among forces of the People's Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk have been higher though.
> 
> Using these open sources, we notice that their findings echo the Russian narrative. Indeed, the bulk of Russian casualties occurred in the early stages of the conflict, when Russia was conduct classic maneuver warfare on the entire front lines and not merely in border regions. Then, as Russia opted for new tactics focusing predominantly on artillery fire, its losses decreased considerably. This corresponds to the declaration of the Russian Ministry of Defence, which stressed that Russian advances have slowed down because the high command is bent on sparing the lives of Russian soldiers as well as of civilians taken hostage by Ukrainian militias.
> 
> We have other coherent data, such as that casualties were comparatively most frequent among Russian paratroopers, which is logical. For this is part of the reason why they are considered elite troops - when you are parachuted, you aren't protected as when you are in an MBT. Russian paratroopers do field their own IFV's, but these have relatively light armor.
> 
> (Un)surprisingly, this BBC report was hardly relayed by the streamlined mainstream media.
> 
> View attachment 879003
> 
> View attachment 879004


If Russia only loss 5700 and Ukrainian loss in Hundreds of thousand, then how or why Russia loss those territories?? How they mount an counter offensive to begin with? Well, actually, they had mounted two......

Dude, I mean, if you really, like REALLY believe in those number, which very clearly did not match the battle result. Then all I can say is that you simply believe everything you are told. If so, I have a bridge to sell you.



Viet said:


> Reading the assessment report this morning. Russia troop retreating from Charkiw to another side of Oskil river bank. that would slow down however won’t stop Ukraine assault. The Oskil river is shallow in some areas, Ukraine troops and armored verhicles can cross.


It won't

They don't have enough troop to hold the line, and there are no defensive work done on the entire line. Even if they started to dig in now, they won't be able to hold those area on the other side of the River.

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## Reashot Xigwin

French & Americans volunteer doing god works


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569865511684415490

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## jhungary

Hmm....This is interesting.

UK Media started to report Russian is either retreating or abandoning Melitopol.









Putin's troops begin to abandon major city Melitopol


The city's pre-occupation mayor said that Russian troops were pulling out of the area in Ukraine's southern Zaporizhzhia region.




www.dailymail.co.uk













Volodymyr Zelenskyy visits retaken city as Ukrainian forces push frontline, retreating Russian forces abandon tanks


Ukrainian troops pile pressure on retreating Russian forces, pressing deeper into occupied territory.




www.abc.net.au





They said the Mayor announce on his Telegram account that Russian troops are withdrawing after Melitopol has been hit earlier yesterday and now abandoning the city. There were explosion heard in Melitopol Airfield by the way.

Again this is NOT confirmed (unless you claim the Mayor is a confirmed source within Ukrainian Government)

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## Broccoli

I find it funny that people rooting for Russia constantly tells us how Russia will all battles, their casaulties are minimal, only few hundred tanks have been lost by Russians, but none can explain why Russians can gain only marginal advances and now we've seen them lose massive areas they fought for months to gain. 

Ghosts and zombies are forcing Russians into retreat?

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Nah, that would be too slow, you need to give them now, not 2 or 3 months down the road, Sealift only make sense if we can directly put those aid on Ukrainian shore, but seeing our ship is blocked by Turkey when this war is still going on, there are no way we can ship it and unload them in Odessa, it would take too long to have it travel across the Atlantic and the across land over Europe either via the Baltic or Italy.



You can have a cargo ship load up humvees in Savannah, GA and and at the ukranian/polish border in 7.5 days.


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## Vergennes

Broccoli said:


> I find it funny that people rooting for Russia constantly tells us how Russia will all battles, their casaulties are minimal, only few hundred tanks have been lost by Russians, but none can explain why Russians can gain only marginal advances and now we've seen them lose massive areas they fought for months to gain.
> 
> Ghosts and zombies are forcing Russians into retreat?



Too much COD players who thought Russia could take entire Europe in 48 hours of course it is a shock to them if you tell them Russia for 2 months has only been able to take half of the village of Pisky despite turning it into rubbles and sending in waves after waves of soldiers/wagnerites/tiktok chechens and "volunteers". 

The myth the Russians created around their armed forces for decades was destroyed within weeks in Ukraine after the whole world saw how garbage they were,of course it is a shock.

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## ZeGerman

newb3e said:


> if we had a thread running during US AFG war we would be discussing how weak and pussy Americans are and how they are getting their racist arses handed to them! but no Hollywood made sure the fake superiority is projected and people dont talk about how weak American might is!


Stop with your taliban supermen bullshit please. 

Coalition kicked out taliban from kabul with a few thousand men.
In 20 years occupation, never lost a conventional battle. 
Last years of occupation lost very low amount of troops (dozens)…clearly not “forced out” by might but by money/Patience

While here we see russian troops routing, losing tens of thousands men, abandoning hundreds of tanks,bmps….

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> You can have a cargo ship load up humvees in Savannah, GA and and at the ukranian/polish border in 7.5 days.



That's just the voyage. You still have to transport all the Humvee to Savannah, then load them onto the ship and then you have to account for the union break and so on. And then you have to unload and have them transport all the way across Poland north to Southeast. It will take months.....


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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> Hmm....This is interesting.
> 
> UK Media started to report Russian is either retreating or abandoning Melitopol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's troops begin to abandon major city Melitopol
> 
> 
> The city's pre-occupation mayor said that Russian troops were pulling out of the area in Ukraine's southern Zaporizhzhia region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Volodymyr Zelenskyy visits retaken city as Ukrainian forces push frontline, retreating Russian forces abandon tanks
> 
> 
> Ukrainian troops pile pressure on retreating Russian forces, pressing deeper into occupied territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.abc.net.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They said the Mayor announce on his Telegram account that Russian troops are withdrawing after Melitopol has been hit earlier yesterday and now abandoning the city. There were explosion heard in Melitopol Airfield by the way.
> 
> Again this is NOT confirmed (unless you claim the Mayor is a confirmed source within Ukrainian Government)



Interesting - early days - but Ukraine will be keen to break the landbridge for Crimea to undermine the strategic objectives and logic of the war for Russia. It is also possible that Russia is regrouping to launch an offensive with the resources it has left and therefore there maybe one more move left of the chessboard for Russia before winter sets in and the war will go into some kind of standstill..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569918812660862979
another level of cope cage

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## ZeGerman

Regarding kerch bridge. What would be needed to bring that down? (Or make it impassible). Can himars/artillery do the job over time?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569957813379600384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569961594787856385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569962205218488324

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569962727392813057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569966644675354625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569968902079238145

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569986829113520128

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569986829113520128



Can you recall the last time Putler went to the front to support his troops ?

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Interesting - early days - but Ukraine will be keen to break the landbridge for Crimea to undermine the strategic objectives and logic of the war for Russia. It is also possible that Russia is regrouping to launch an offensive with the resources it has left and therefore there maybe one more move left of the chessboard for Russia before winter sets in and the war will go into some kind of standstill..


The reason why I said it's interesting is because Melitopol is closer to Crimea than to the Frontline, it was never in danger from being overrun by the Ukrainian. There are serious Partisan activities in the area but it was around 70km from the frontline give or take.

The troop withdraw toward Crimea, not moving ahead to the frontline in Zaporizhzhya, I just can't think of why. Hollowing out Melitopol does not really make sense, as there are no more than 1000 troop station in Melitopol, It does not really make sense as regrouping for an counter offensive, or does it work to use that force to reinforce Kherson or Donbas. 

Not sure why the reason Melitopol is being evacuated.



ZeGerman said:


> Regarding kerch bridge. What would be needed to bring that down? (Or make it impassible). Can himars/artillery do the job over time?


HIMARS can damage the bridge but cannot bring it down, you can bomb the bridge with fighter jet and it may be down from the airstrike, or you can use cruise missile to bring down the bridge.


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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Can you recall the last time Putler went to the front to support his troops ?


 
Remember according to Putin they’ve “lost nothing.” Those soldiers lives mean nothing to him.

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569986829113520128


Winston Churchill vibes how he stayed and kept leading the country during the dark days of invasion.



jhungary said:


> The reason why I said it's interesting is because Melitopol is closer to Crimea than to the Frontline, it was never in danger from being overrun by the Ukrainian. There are serious Partisan activities in the area but it was around 70km from the frontline give or take.
> 
> The troop withdraw toward Crimea, not moving ahead to the frontline in Zaporizhzhya, I just can't think of why. Hollowing out Melitopol does not really make sense, as there are no more than 1000 troop station in Melitopol, It does not really make sense as regrouping for an counter offensive, or does it work to use that force to reinforce Kherson or Donbas.
> 
> Not sure why the reason Melitopol is being evacuated.
> 
> 
> HIMARS can damage the bridge but cannot bring it down, you can bomb the bridge with fighter jet and it may be down from the airstrike, or you can use cruise missile to bring down the bridge.


Does ukraine have the fighter jet bomb/cruise missiles needed in inventory?

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## SalarHaqq

jhungary said:


> If Russia only loss 5700 and Ukrainian loss in Hundreds of thousand, then how or why Russia loss those territories?? How they mount an counter offensive to begin with? Well, actually, they had mounted two......



There's no necessary logical correlation between these propositions. Expanse of land controlled and extent of casualties incurred can be very disproportionate to each other.



jhungary said:


> Dude, I mean, if you really, like REALLY believe in those number, which very clearly did not match the battle result. Then all I can say is that you simply believe everything you are told. If so, I have a bridge to sell you.



So the Ukrainian general is lying and the BBC is making numbers up? What for?

I tend to believe credible research findings based upon sound methodology, as well as credible sources. These tick the boxes.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> That's just the voyage. You still have to transport all the Humvee to Savannah, then load them onto the ship and then you have to account for the union break and so on. And then you have to unload and have them transport all the way across Poland north to Southeast. It will take months.....


Fort benning is 4 hours drive. Ship is roll on roll off. so no unions. Soldiers can do it. 6 hour drive across Poland.


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Fort benning is 4 hours drive. Ship is roll on roll off. so no unions. Soldiers can do it. 6 hour drive across Poland.


Man, I wish loading on/off a military ship is as smooth as you think.

I still remember I was sitting for 8 hours on dockside shipping out to Kuwait with my Bradley......



SalarHaqq said:


> There's no necessary logical equivalence between these propositions. The expanse of land controlled can be very disproportional to the extent of casualties incurred.
> 
> 
> 
> So the Ukrainian general is lying and the BBC is making numbers up? What for?
> 
> I tend to believe credible research findings based upon sound methodology, as well as credible sources. These two tick the boxes.



Well, first of all, that's not research......I mean how can you tell from how many troop Russian loss by gravesite dug in Russia? Condolence Message?? What about Russian troop that was buried in Ukraine?? What about people don't go online? That is not even a valid measure on how many troop was killed. You look at how many new guy being brought in to replace the loss occurred, that's a way more accurate estimation.

As for the general comment, I watched that original interview, first of all, he is giving a ballpark figure, and he also said it was casualty. Not killed. (Casualty means Killed, Wounded and Missing) It was taken out of context judging from what you said (I don't speak French so I don't know what your video are saying).

Again, if you believe in this war Russia loss 5700 soldier because someone did a very quick search on how many new gravesites and how many online condolences, well, then. Again, I have a bridge to sell you...

And finally, land lose and gain and holding said land have to do with proportional to the casualty received. You cannot expel the enemy if your combat strength is not effective, nor would enemy gave up ground if their combat power is effective. And if Ukraine really do loss hundreds of thousands of soldiers, lost, not just wounded, then who is stopping the Russian advance? And who is launching the 2-counteroffensive??



ZeGerman said:


> Does ukraine have the fighter jet bomb/cruise missiles needed in inventory?


Ukraine have cruise missile, but I doubt they can go that far and bomb that bridge.

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## SalarHaqq

jhungary said:


> Well, first of all, that's not research......I mean how can you tell from how many troop Russian loss by gravesite dug in Russia? Condolence Message??



This is what social scientists refer to as empirical field research.



jhungary said:


> What about Russian troop that was buried in Ukraine??



Their relatives don't receive condolences from friends and comrades?



jhungary said:


> What about people don't go online?



The BBC's team of investigative journalists didn't confine themselves to online content.



jhungary said:


> That is not even a valid measure on how many troop was killed. You look at how many new guy being brought in to replace the loss occurred, that's a way more accurate estimation.



It's a measure of publicly confirmed troop deaths.



jhungary said:


> As for the general comment, I watched that original interview, first of all, he is giving a ballpark figure, and he also said it was casualty. Not killed. (Casualty means Killed, Wounded and Missing) It was taken out of context judging from what you said (I don't speak French so I don't know what your video are saying).



After verification the video I linked to is also saying losses, but assuming a wounded to killed ratio of 10 to 1 which is a relatively high one, several hundreds of thousands of casualties would imply at least 20.000 Ukrainian lost their lives.



jhungary said:


> Again, if you believe in this war Russia loss 5700 soldier because someone did a very quick search on how many new gravesites and how many online condolences, well, then. Again, I have a bridge to sell you...



Who says it was a very quick search rather than a series of extensive long-term surveys? Also it appears these weren't the only two criteria they looked into. They tracked any indication they could find. It's a valid estimate that offers a good approximation.

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## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> This is what social scientists refer to as empirical field research.



That was a probe. Not a Research.



SalarHaqq said:


> Their relatives don't receive condolences from friends and comrades?



Yes, but is there are rules that you have to do it over the internet?

How about going to the person's home and offer it yourselves? Or write a letter? Or you simply don't know your friend's relative was killed? 



SalarHaqq said:


> The BBC's team of investigative journalists didn't confine themselves to online content.



But did he ask the entirety of the Russian population??

Because you are claiming Entirety of the Russian death, so they MUST BE talking with everyone in Russia to find out how many of them offered condolence on dead relative?? Otherwise that's a representation, not an entirety. 



SalarHaqq said:


> It's a measure of publicly confirmed troop deaths.



Umm......no. 




SalarHaqq said:


> After verification the video I linked to is also saying losses, but assuming a wounded to killed ratio of 10 to 1 which is a relatively high one, several hundreds of thousands of casualties would imply at least 20.000 Ukrainian lost their lives.



First of all, there are no "several hundred thousand" seeing the entire Ukrainian Military themselves only in "Several Hundred Thousand" if that is true, then either half or all the entire Ukrainian military are casualty. Depends on how you interpret the term "Several Hundred Thousand" If so, who's doing the fighting now? Russian should have won and the war is over. You can't fight a war with half your army being casualty. 

Second of all, as I said, you need to factor in response in operation, you cannot have underman unit attacking a full unit, or you have suffer immerse casualty during an attack and still succeed. Sure, outlining event does exist, but if Ukraine really do suffer that kind of casualty (Those are small by the way) then it would be the Ukrainian in retreat, not Russian. 

And finally, there is already a thread on Russian and Ukrainian casualty, and you can look up more "Resonable" number by a certain degree than this. 



SalarHaqq said:


> Who says it was a very quick search rather than a series of extensive long-term surveys? Also it appears these weren't the only two criteria they looked into. They tracked any indication they could find. It's a valid estimate that offers a good approximation.



A good approximation would need a large amount of data set, and a consistency of data, this have neither. I used to process data for a living as my job is to interpret Military Intelligence. First of all. you cannot get a good approximation by trying to local new gravesite as that really don't represent anything, also you will need to have coverage large enough to have enough possible data to be factor in, given the size of Russia, if that BBC team really did that in 6 months, then I will say they are probably god of data, either that or they are the most efficient and hardworking worker I have ever knows. 

And finally, if I track a specific indication, that mean I am focus on that, again, you are arguing the entirety, ie the Russian loss for the ENTIRE war. How are you going to do that if you are imply tracking any indication, as by nature, all indication is passive.

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine, with millions of unemployed. They don't need a full mobilization to have sufficient man power. The new 3rd corps is a good example. With incentive of cash or even reward of plots of land in Ukraine, as well as a chance to be a hero which ups your chance of getting a nice lady, plenty of poor and unemployed folks sign up to join.


More fake news 😂



Bengal71 said:


> Not yet. The Russian dog has a lot of fight in it. Refer to WW2 Germany vs USSR war.


Not the same army or haven’t you figured that out yet. 
Russias military has proven to be hollow

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## kingQamaR

A brilliant feint by Ukraine. Get the Russians beefing up one part of the front, then attack the area weakened by troop withdrawals. Yet more huge failings by Russian intelligence services.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> A brilliant feint by Ukraine. Get the Russians beefing up one part of the front, then attack the area weakened by troop withdrawals. Yet more huge failings by Russian intelligence services.


I don't think Kherson front is a feint. with all the troops and the direction of attack, I think the Ukrainian really are going for broke in Kherson. They just didn't tell the Russian they also trying to have a go on Kharkiv.......

This is more likely an exploit attacks.

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## RoadAmerica

Bengal71 said:


> I can imagine that but Russia has the ability to do more and absorb far more losses. It will come down to motivation if they are willing to do that. In WW2 they were defending homeland and their independence against the Nazis who considered them subhumans. This time around no matter how much emotion they have, the motivation is not going to be the same as WW2 scenario, the existing Russian homeland is not in threat, if it was then Russia would've the motivation and incentive to fight to the last man.


Boy oh boy have the Russian cheerleaders done a 180 🤣 
Cue excuse after excuse


----------



## kingQamaR

SalarHaqq said:


> There's no necessary logical correlation between these propositions. Expanse of land controlled and extent of casualties incurred can be very disproportionate to each other.
> 
> 
> 
> So the Ukrainian general is lying and the BBC is making numbers up? What for?
> 
> I tend to believe credible research findings based upon sound methodology, as well as credible sources. These tick the boxes.




Reports are coming in that the Russian forces have fled melitipol. Ukraine has not attacked there yet! Other Russian troops in the area are surrendering to local partisans.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Next year things are heating up. Russians are waiting for the wunder waffes to come. Ka-52 M and Mi-28 NM sturmoviks are coming next year. These sturmoviks are beasts armed with long range EO and missiles which blast tanks from beyond 10 km. These sturmoviks will turn the tide in Russians favor next year.


🤣 now it’s next year
Please please educate yourself it will go a long way in life


----------



## SalarHaqq

jhungary said:


> That was a probe. Not a Research.



From a social science point of view, it's typical research work.



jhungary said:


> Yes, but is there are rules that you have to do it over the internet?
> 
> How about going to the person's home and offer it yourselves? Or write a letter? Or you simply don't know your friend's relative was killed?



There are probably media outside the internet where such messages are published, in which case they'd have been taken into account. Moreover this was one out of several sets of data considered. Chances are that for the bulk of Russian forces fallen in the conflict, there's going to be some accessible indication among the multiple sets of empirical sources investigated by those BBC journalists.



jhungary said:


> But did he ask the entirety of the Russian population??
> 
> Because you are claiming Entirety of the Russian death, so they MUST BE talking with everyone in Russia to find out how many of them offered condolence on dead relative?? Otherwise that's a representation, not an entirety.



If condolence messages were the only thing they looked at, but they weren't.



jhungary said:


> Umm......no.



Yes, as long as they examined all types of public sources acknowledging troop deaths.



jhungary said:


> First of all, there are no "several hundred thousand" seeing the entire Ukrainian Military themselves only in "Several Hundred Thousand" if that is true, then either half or all the entire Ukrainian military are casualty. Depends on how you interpret the term "Several Hundred Thousand" If so, who's doing the fighting now? Russian should have won and the war is over. You can't fight a war with half your army being casualty.



Eh... several hundreds of thousands can range from 200.000 to 900.000 or more. Also since we're talking about the sum of casualties, most of these weren't lethal. Still, it would realistically imply a minimum loss of 20.000 units of the Ukrainian military and probably more. This doesn't stem from my imagination but from the words of a Ukrainian general no less.



jhungary said:


> Second of all, as I said, you need to factor in response in operation, you cannot have underman unit attacking a full unit, or you have suffer immerse casualty during an attack and still succeed. Sure, outlining event does exist, but if Ukraine really do suffer that kind of casualty (Those are small by the way) then it would be the Ukrainian in retreat, not Russian.



What undermanned units? Total Ukrainian troop numbers have consistently been far superior to the amount of Russian forces mobilized in the operation.

Also your argument here is based on an strange premise, since it doesn't seem to occur to you that if, say, you are in a situation where you have fewer units to defend a given location, then you'll be more likely to lose that location and also to do so while sustaining fewer casualties compared to losing that same location with more troops defending it. Various scenarii are possible in which retreat does not equal high casualties.



jhungary said:


> And finally, there is already a thread on Russian and Ukrainian casualty, and you can look up more "Resonable" number by a certain degree than this.



I relayed a statement from a high ranking officer of the Ukrainian military as well as a methodologically acceptable piece of in-depth research by investigative journalists of the BBC. Neither of them are partial in favor of Russia.

Now this to me will weighs more than some random, unsubstantiated estimates based on thin air and published by either biased or uninvolved outside sources.



jhungary said:


> A good approximation would need a large amount of data set, and a consistency of data, this have neither. I used to process data for a living as my job is to interpret Military Intelligence. First of all. you cannot get a good approximation by trying to local new gravesite as that really don't represent anything, also you will need to have coverage large enough to have enough possible data to be factor in, given the size of Russia, if that BBC team really did that in 6 months, then I will say they are probably god of data, either that or they are the most efficient and hardworking worker I have ever knows.



Or maybe they affected large amounts of researchers to the task. Do you happen to be privy to this in order to draw that conclusion? You didn't produce evidence either that the volume of data they processed is actually small. As for grave sites not representing anything, no comment.



jhungary said:


> And finally, if I track a specific indication, that mean I am focus on that, again, you are arguing the entirety, ie the Russian loss for the ENTIRE war. How are you going to do that if you are imply tracking any indication, as by nature, all indication is passive.



?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570018634386534400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570017018211930113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570017805017161728


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## Vergennes

it never stops lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570020600881487873


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570009509560520704


----------



## SalarHaqq

kingQamaR said:


> Reports are coming in that the Russian forces have fled melitipol. Ukraine has not attacked there yet! Other Russian troops in the area are surrendering to local partisans.



If true it would simply go to illustrate once again the obvious reality that retreat does not necessarily imply (large amounts of) casualties.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569986832468779009


----------



## kingQamaR

SalarHaqq said:


> If true it would simply go to illustrate once again the obvious reality that retreat does not necessarily imply (large amounts of) casualties.



All the hallmarks of a rout, when they start fleeing out of contact.


----------



## Primus

Bro why people putting PHONK and rock music over combat footage? Just makes it cringey to watch


----------



## SalarHaqq

Six in 10 British Factories at Risk of Going Under as Bills Soar​





A worker walks between the production line at a bottling factory in Kegworth, UK. Photographer: Darren Staples/Bloomberg
By Julian Harris
September 3, 2022, 1:01 AM GMT+2

Soaring energy bills are threatening to put six in 10 British manufacturers out of business, according to a survey that lays bare the extent of the crisis facing the next prime minister.

MakeUK, the lobby group for UK factories, said that nearly half of manufacturers have experienced a jump in electricity bills of more than 100% in the past year.

“The current crisis is leaving businesses facing a stark choice,” the report said. “Cut production or shut up shop altogether if help does not come soon.”

The UK’s new prime minister will be announced on Monday, with Liz Truss expected to beat Rishi Sunak, her rival in the Conservative Party leadership race. The government is under intense pressure to announce a wider package of support to help consumers and businesses cope with an unprecedented surge in global energy costs.

Britain’s factory sector is already in decline, according to a purchasing managers’ index published by S&P Global this week. MakeUK’s survey said that 13% of factories now have reduced hours of operation or are avoiding peak periods, while 7% are halting production for longer stretches.

“Emergency action is needed by the new government,” said Stephen Phipson, MakeUK’s chief executive officer. “We are already lagging behind our global competitors.” 









Six in 10 British Factories at Risk of Going Under as Bills Soar


Soaring energy bills are threatening to put six in 10 British manufacturers out of business, according to a survey that lays bare the extent of the crisis facing the next prime minister.




www.bloomberg.com


----------



## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> From a social science point of view, it's research work.



It is just not.......As I said, this is at most a probe

Research is when you have empirical evidence to support something, this is nothing but a stab in the dark.......If this is science, then this is quack science.....


SalarHaqq said:


> There are probably media outside the internet where such messages are published, in which case they'd have been taken into account. Moreover this was one out of several sets of data considered. Chances are that for the bulk of Russian forces fallen in the conflict, there's going to be some accessiblev indication among the multiple sets of empirical sources investigated by those BBC journalists.



Again, there are many other ways or reason why no one was contacted or no condolence message was sent, even if they can crawl thru ALL OSINT, there are still private data that is not going to be available to the "BBC Researcher"

And again, you are not talking about a proportional casualty, as in how many of those are being notified or griefed, there are still many other factor that was not involved and therefore not recorded.



SalarHaqq said:


> If condolence messages were the only thing they looked at, but they weren't.



Just think of it like this, you need a handle to do any online communication, that is the one that you can look up.
Ask yoruself this, how many Russian soldier have online handle to begin with?

Unless these "BBC researcher" have access to the official roll of Russian Military (which I highly doubt they will) the people they know are deceased are only limited to people who are available on open source.

It doesn't matter if that is message, condolence or whatever, they won't have access to the entire database and I don't think the entire Russian Military roll call are being put on the internet so everyone can look up.



SalarHaqq said:


> Yes, as long as they examined all types of public sources acknowledging troop deaths.



See above response.



SalarHaqq said:


> Eh... several hundreds of thousands can range from 200.000 to 900.000 or more. Also since we're talking about the sum of casualties, most of these weren't lethal. Still, it would realistically imply a minimum loss of 20.000 units of the Ukrainian military and probably more. This doesn't stem from my imagination but from the words of a Ukrainian general no less.



You are talking about "several hundred thousand" casualty in a "several hundred thousand" Army. In America, your unit is labelled combat ineffective if you have 20% of casualty, the reason behind this is you will need another 20% of men to look after the 20% casualty, which mean your unit is down 40%. Let's say it's 200,000 on a 900,000 force, you are talking about 22% casualty, and there is no way Ukraine would have 900,000 personnel. More likely between 6-700,000 

And again, I watched the original interview, it has been taken out of context.



SalarHaqq said:


> What undermanned units? Total Ukrainian troop numbers have consistently been far superior to the amount of Russian forces mobilized in the operation.



Dude, just because Ukrainian have 6-700,000 troop in Ukraine vs 300,000 Russian, that does not mean they have superior in number, Ukrainian are defending their entire country, which mean they would have to put troop in fronts that are not active, to anticipate an attack.

It's the same as why Russia have 1.3 million troops but they can only spare 300,000 to attack Ukraine.



SalarHaqq said:


> Also your entire argument here is flawed, since it doesn't seem to occur to you that if, say, you are in a situation where you have fewer units to defend a given location, then you'll be more likely to lose that location and also to do so while sustaining fewer casualties compared to losing that same location with more troops defending it. Various other scenarii are possible in which retreat does not equal high casualties.



What the hell are you talking about??

If you have less troop defending an area, you either buckle or get slaughter, in either case, you will lose all your troop, either killed, wounded or captured, and you will also suffer casualty more proportional to the attacker. Less defender, less attacker casualty, you don't lose the same amount of attacker to say 100 soldiers defending an area to 10,000 soldiers defending the same area.

And I am NOT talking about the number, I am talking about the proportional lost.

If and when you retreated, that mean you lose more people to the attacker in proportional, the number may be smaller, say if I have a force of 100,000 to attack and you have 500, you lose all 500 but I lose 1000 taking your position, yes, I lose more than you in number, but you lose more than me proportional to the attacks. Because you lose your entire unit, I lost 1%





SalarHaqq said:


> I relayed a statement from a high ranking officer of the Ukrainian military as well as a comprehensive, transparent and methodologically sound piece of in-depth research by investigative journalists of the BBC. Neither of them are partial in favor of Russia.



Again, your video, according to you, are taking what that general said out of context.

And I don't know what value the BBC "research" has......



SalarHaqq said:


> Now this to me weighs more than some random, unsubstantiated estimates based on thin air and published by either biased or uninvolved outside sources.



And yours are substantiated?? I don't know counting internet post is a method to gather casualty information....

We can all guess, but again, it would not make sense to have 5700 loss in a 6 months war with nil or neglectable progress. Again, that casualty number need to fit the actual circumstance of the war. Either all the loss Russia suffer is bloodless. Or that is not a valid number.....





SalarHaqq said:


> Or maybe they affected large amounts of researchers to the task. Do you happen to be privy to this in order to draw that conclusion? Nor have you produced evidence that the volume of data they processed is actually small. As for grave sites not representing anything, no comment.



Dude, and you know??

First of all, Russia has 157 million people. If you want to know in entirety, you will have to interview all 157 million people and see if they have lost any one in the war. That's 157 million calls. Let's say a standard conversation is 3 minutes. It will take 471 million minutes of call to make sure everyone was contacted, and I am already discounting people not picking up the phone, or line is busy, let's just say every call was picked up and spend 3 minutes to gather data. 60 minutes an hour, which mean it will take 7.85 million hours to contact them all, which mean it will take around 327,085 days to contact all of them because each day have 24 hours. 300 thousand days. Which mean if you have a team of 1000, they did nothing but keep calling Russian all day, 24/7, it will take them 300 days to interview all the people.

Now, I don't know how big you think BBC is, I would doubt there are 1000 worker work for BBC Russia and I would very much doubt they will do nothing but call people 24/7 for 300 days, which this war is still in day 202.

Unless, again, those BBC dude have access to the entire list of Russian Service Personnel, then they will not need to call Everyone in Russia.



SalarHaqq said:


> ?


When you focus on an indication, you narrow that scope of the search.

Say if I focus on the estimation of ground force, then that number will not be representing the entirity of Russian Armed Force because you are ignoring the Navy, Air Force and other branch.

You are doing a broad-spectrum search, which mean you cannot use "Indication" as a starting point. Because "Indication" are passive.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570026933596917761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570026943428591616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570026955096952833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570030472595644419

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570032496397455361

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570030688442916864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570035765358505985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570029570669027328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570027482505515011


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570027482505515011


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570019650326659072




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570017018211930113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569945148741812226


----------



## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> This is what social scientists refer to as empirical field research.
> 
> 
> 
> Their relatives don't receive condolences from friends and comrades?
> 
> 
> 
> The BBC's team of investigative journalists didn't confine themselves to online content.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a measure of publicly confirmed troop deaths.
> 
> 
> 
> After verification the video I linked to is also saying losses, but assuming a wounded to killed ratio of 10 to 1 which is a relatively high one, several hundreds of thousands of casualties would imply at least 20.000 Ukrainian lost their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Who says it was a very quick search rather than a series of extensive long-term surveys? Also it appears these weren't the only two criteria they looked into. They tracked any indication they could find. It's a valid estimate that offers a good approximation.



And finally,

BBC Russia concluded that the 5701 name as of August 19 is not likely the entire loss Russia suffer in Ukraine, it's likely up to 60% of the name are not included in that report









BBC Russian Service and Mediazona uncover the names of more than 5,700 Russian soldiers who died in Ukraine — Meduza


Journalists from the BBC Russian Service and Mediazona, together with a team of volunteers, published updated data on the deaths of Russian servicemen in Ukraine. As of August 19, they've been able to confirm the deaths of 5,701 people.




meduza.io







> The journalists compiled the statistics based on reports from local authorities, the media, and relatives of the dead (while, as noted, heads of Russian regions are speaking publicly about the deaths of military personnel with increasing frequency). *They estimate that their list contains 40-60% fewer names than the actual number who've been buried in Russia.*


----------



## Bengal71

RoadAmerica said:


> Boy oh boy have the Russian cheerleaders done a 180 🤣
> Cue excuse after excuse



What are you blabbering about? Who is Russian cheerleader?


----------



## LeGenD

Bengal71 said:


> I can imagine that but Russia has the ability to do more and absorb far more losses. It will come down to motivation if they are willing to do that. In WW2 they were defending homeland and their independence against the Nazis who considered them subhumans. This time around no matter how much emotion they have, the motivation is not going to be the same as WW2 scenario, the existing Russian homeland is not in threat, if it was then Russia would've the motivation and incentive to fight to the last man.



I see your point but I do not think Russians were lacking in motivation. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568858452457398272
Hundreds of Russian OFFICERS are *KIA* in this war. These men have reportedly led their troops from the front but lost their lives in battles waged across Ukraine. 

Is this situation tenable for Russian forces? For how long? Conscripts are much easier to replace than quality OFFICERS, right?

Russia was a much stronger side than Ukraine. Russian military operation in Ukraine commenced on a brilliant footing with infiltration of latter from six different directions. I could not see any flaw in this Russian execution. This was the work of an experienced Russian side.

But Putin was in hubris (or misled). His advisors had convinced him that Zelenskyy is a comedian and a Western puppet in Ukraine. What does he know about war?

Well... Zelenskyy turned out to be everything *but* how Russians perceived him.

Courage by itself is not sufficient. Troops need competent OFFICERS to lead them. Secondly, the sight of Russian tank tops flying around will not help Russian morale.

American tanks are built for the offensive, Russian tanks not so much. I have argued this on a consistent basis here on PDF but too many takers of Russian hype in this forum and otherwise. 

Advanced technologies are 'necessary' to fight a conventional war in current times. Russia has managed to produce some good weapon systems but it is unable to keep up with technological sophistication of the WEST.

Russian forces managed to infiltrate and disrupt Ukrainian ICT infrastructure but Elon Musk provided Ukranians access to its state-of-the-art Starlink system. Russian cyber warfare was checkmated in this manner.

NATO is also providing increasingly sophisticated weapon systems to Ukraine. These supplies have made it possible for Ukraine to counter Russian tanks, UAVs, helicopters, jets, and even ships.

Americans are making it possible for Ukrainians to fight a conventional war with Russia on many counts.

Russia also have industrial limitations and limited economic opportunities due to tensions with the WEST. 

USSR was a bloc of 16 like-minded states and had ample manpower at its disposal in times of WW2. It also had support from USA and UK in these times. Military forces were also not very technology-driven back then.

But much has changed for Russia by now. Let us see.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570038008883077121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570031303801585669


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> It's getting worse, I was watching a Channel 1 news segment, they started to swing it like this is a DNR/LPR war, they largely blame the DNR/LPR people for the loss, they didn't even mentioned the name Russia on that program (maybe once or twice)
> 
> seems like they are trying to isolate Russian involvement from the war. It's not "Their" war, they were just there to help the Russian speaking brothers. And then turn around and blame them for not holding the line.
> 
> Man, I think it's just a matter of time either DPR/LNR people turn on them or the Russian drop these people...


It is just a matter of time (perhaps a few more months) before DNR/LPR will run out of fighting bodies. The majority Slav people in Russia have played very little (proportional) loss in this war so far. Their turn is next. Perhaps then, they will feel the burden of loosing their loved ones for this delusion of a mad man


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570026414392635394
lmao

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## SalarHaqq

jhungary said:


> It is just not.......As I said, this is at most a probe



In social science it's classified as research.



jhungary said:


> Research is when you have empirical evidence to support something, this is nothing but a stab in the dark.......If this is science, then this is quack science.....



The report is based on empirical data.



jhungary said:


> Again, there are many other ways or reason why no one was contacted or no condolence message was sent, even if they can crawl thru ALL OSINT, there are still private data that is not going to be available to the "BBC Researcher".





jhungary said:


> And again, you are not talking about a proportional casualty, as in how many of those are being notified or griefed, there are still many other factor that was not involved and therefore not recorded.





jhungary said:


> Just think of it like this, you need a handle to do any online communication, that is the one that you can look up.
> Ask yoruself this, how many Russian soldier have online handle to begin with?



To reiterate, condolence messages were merely one of multiple sets of data surveyed.



jhungary said:


> Unless these "BBC researcher" have access to the official roll of Russian Military (which I highly doubt they will) the people they know are deceased are only limited to people who are available on open source.



Hence my statement that it's a measure of publicly available data on fallen Russian soldiers.



jhungary said:


> It doesn't matter if that is message, condolence or whatever, they won't have access to the entire database and I don't think the entire Russian Military roll call are being put on the internet so everyone can look up.



Chances are that for the bulk of Russian forces fallen in the conflict, there's going to be some accessible indication among the multiple types of empirical sources investigated by those BBC journalists.



jhungary said:


> See above response.



Redundant retort, addressed already.



jhungary said:


> You are talking about "several hundred thousand" casualty in a "several hundred thousand" Army. In America, your unit is labelled combat ineffective if you have 20% of casualty, the reason behind this is you will need another 20% of men to look after the 20% casualty, which mean your unit is down 40%. Let's say it's 200,000 on a 900,000 force, you are talking about 22% casualty, and there is no way Ukraine would have 900,000 personnel. More likely between 6-700,000



Yes and 2-300.000 casualties out of 6-700.000 thus far is a realistic figure.



jhungary said:


> And again, I watched the original interview, it has been taken out of context.



Fact is the Ukrainian general thinks Ukrainian forces have had several hundreds of thousands of casualties.



jhungary said:


> Dude, just because Ukrainian have 6-700,000 troop in Ukraine vs 300,000 Russian, that does not mean they have superior in number, Ukrainian are defending their entire country, which mean they would have to put troop in fronts that are not active, to anticipate an attack.



Russians fielded more like 200.000. Ukraine proceeded with general mobilization. And their troops are all assigned to the same conflict regardless of the exact front section they're stationed at, whereas most units of the Russian armed forces aren't, they're stayin in Russia where there's no war going on.



jhungary said:


> What the hell are you talking about??
> 
> If you have less troop defending an area, you either buckle or get slaughter, in either case, you will lose all your troop, either killed, wounded or captured, and you will also suffer casualty more proportional to the attacker. Less defender, less attacker casualty, you don't lose the same amount of attacker to say 100 soldiers defending an area to 10,000 soldiers defending the same area.



You lose less defenders if there are only 100 of them versus if there are 10.000 assuming identical outcome i.e. enemy conquest of defended location.



jhungary said:


> And I am NOT talking about the number, I am talking about the proportional lost.





jhungary said:


> If and when you retreated, that mean you lose more people to the attacker in proportional, the number may be smaller, say if I have a force of 100,000 to attack and you have 500, you lose all 500 but I lose 1000 taking your position, yes, I lose more than you in number, but you lose more than me proportional to the attacks. Because you lose your entire unit, I lost 1%



The sources I cited are dealing with absolute numbers, not proportional loss!



jhungary said:


> Again, your video, according to you, are taking what that general said out of context.
> 
> And I don't know what value the BBC "research" has......



See above.



jhungary said:


> And yours are substantiated?? I don't know counting internet post is a method to gather casualty information....



Condolence messages, obituaries, funeral notices, news reports in Russian media and more.



jhungary said:


> We can all guess, but again, it would not make sense to have 5700 loss in a 6 months war with nil or neglectable progress. Again, that casualty number need to fit the actual circumstance of the war. Either all the loss Russia suffer is bloodless. Or that is not a valid number.....



Or most Russian losses occurred when they were conducting maneuver warfare in the early stage of the war, which allowed them to seize large swaths of territory. And then, they deliberately switched tactics and began focusing on artillery in order to reduce their casualties. Which is confirmed by the chronological breakdown of Russian KIA statistics in the chart I shared.



jhungary said:


> Dude, and you know??



I know what they accomplished supposes a whole group of people to partcipate in data gathering.



jhungary said:


> First of all, Russia has 157 million people. If you want to know in entirety, you will have to interview all 157 million people and see if they have lost any one in the war. That's 157 million calls. Let's say a standard conversation is 3 minutes. It will take 471 million minutes of call to make sure everyone was contacted, and I am already discounting people not picking up the phone, or line is busy, let's just say every call was picked up and spend 3 minutes to gather data. 60 minutes an hour, which mean it will take 7.85 million hours to contact them all, which mean it will take around 327,085 days to contact all of them because each day have 24 hours. 300 thousand days. Which mean if you have a team of 1000, they did nothing but keep calling Russian all day, 24/7, it will take them 300 days to interview all the people.
> 
> Now, I don't know how big you think BBC is, I would doubt there are 1000 worker work for BBC Russia and I would very much doubt they will do nothing but call people 24/7 for 300 days, which this war is still in day 202.
> 
> Unless, again, those BBC dude have access to the entire list of Russian Service Personnel, then they will not need to call Everyone in Russia.



They combed through a number of publicly accessible sources in which troop deaths are reported. This method represents a shortcut which allows valid approximation.



jhungary said:


> When you focus on an indication, you narrow that scope of the search.
> 
> Say if I focus on the estimation of ground force, then that number will not be representing the entirity of Russian Armed Force because you are ignoring the Navy, Air Force and other branch.
> 
> You are doing a broad-spectrum search, which mean you cannot use "Indication" as a starting point. Because "Indication" are passive.



As explained, the bulk of fallen soldiers are likely to leave some trace in either one of the data sets the BBC journalists studied. Especially in today's world where information circulates more intensely and is more readily available than ever, in a developed country at that.



jhungary said:


> And finally,
> 
> BBC Russia concluded that the 5701 name as of August 19 is not likely the entire loss Russia suffer in Ukraine, it's likely up to 60% of the name are not included in that report
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC Russian Service and Mediazona uncover the names of more than 5,700 Russian soldiers who died in Ukraine — Meduza
> 
> 
> Journalists from the BBC Russian Service and Mediazona, together with a team of volunteers, published updated data on the deaths of Russian servicemen in Ukraine. As of August 19, they've been able to confirm the deaths of 5,701 people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meduza.io



Difference is that those 5701 casualties are documented, while everything beyond that number is subjective estimation and guesswork.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569961678371946496


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570047651231547393

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## Bengal71

LeGenD said:


> I see your point but I do not think Russians were lacking in motivation.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568858452457398272
> Hundreds of Russian OFFICERS are *KIA* in this war. These men have reportedly led their troops from the front but lost their lives in battles waged across Ukraine.
> 
> Is this situation tenable for Russian forces? For how long? Conscripts are much easier to replace than quality OFFICERS, right?
> 
> Russia was a much stronger side than Ukraine. Russian military operation in Ukraine commenced on a brilliant footing with infiltration of latter from six different directions. I could not see any flaw in this Russian execution. This was the work of an experienced Russian side.
> 
> But Putin was in hubris (or misled). His advisors had convinced him that Zelenskyy is a comedian and a Western puppet in Ukraine. What does he know about war?
> 
> Well... Zelenskyy turned out to be everything *but* how Russians perceived him.
> 
> Courage by itself is not sufficient. Troops need competent OFFICERS to lead them. Secondly, the sight of Russian tank tops flying around will not help Russian morale.
> 
> American tanks are built for the offensive, Russian tanks not so much. I have argued this on a consistent basis here on PDF but too many takers of Russian hype in this forum and otherwise.
> 
> Advanced technologies are 'necessary' to fight a conventional war in current times. Russia has managed to produce some good weapon systems but it is unable to keep up with technological sophistication of the WEST.
> 
> Russian forces managed to infiltrate and disrupt Ukrainian ICT infrastructure but Elon Musk provided Ukranians access to its state-of-the-art Starlink system. Russian cyber warfare was checkmated in this manner.
> 
> NATO is also providing increasingly sophisticated weapon systems to Ukraine. These supplies have made it possible for Ukraine to counter Russian tanks, UAVs, helicopters, jets, and even ships.
> 
> Americans are making it possible for Ukrainians to fight a conventional war with Russia on many counts.
> 
> Russia also have industrial limitations and limited economic opportunities due to tensions with the WEST.
> 
> USSR was a bloc of 16 like-minded states and had ample manpower at its disposal in times of WW2. It also had support from USA and UK in these times. Military forces were also not very technology-driven back then.
> 
> But much has changed for Russia by now. Let us see.



You are just arguing for the sake of it and writing things that are not needed.

They obviously have some motivation as they invaded Ukraine for the last 7 months. But it's not the same motivation as WW2 when they defended their homeland. They lost ~15% of their entire population, still didn't give up and went all the way up to Berlin. I doubt an invasion warrants the same level of motivation.
Nevertheless an invasion still requires some motivation but it's not the same level that is shown in an existential threat such as the WW2 scenario.

The original point I was making with @PakFactor is that, the Russian dog has a lot of fight in it even after taking severe losses as they demonstrated in WW2. If the same motivation exists in Ukraine war (doubtful), the Russian dog still has a lot of fight in them even after heavy losses. It is yet to be seen how much motivation they have to win in Ukraine which will be translated to the fight they will put forth and commit to.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Bengal71 said:


> You are just arguing for the sake of it and writing things that are not needed.
> 
> They obviously have some motivation as they invaded Ukraine for the last 7 months. But it's not the same motivation as WW2 when they defended their homeland. They lost ~15% of their entire population, still didn't give up and went all the way up to Berlin. I doubt an invasion warrants the same level of motivation.
> Nevertheless an invasion still requires some motivation but it's not the same level that is shown in an existential threat such as the WW2 scenario.
> 
> The original point I was making with @PakFactor is that, the Russian dog has a lot of fight in it even after taking severe losses as they demonstrated in WW2. If the same motivation exists in Ukraine war (doubtful), the Russian dog still has a lot of fight in them even after heavy losses. It is yet to be seen how much motivation they have to win in Ukraine which will be translated to the fight they will put forth and commit to.



Motivation is defending Russian speakers from Kiev army artillery. It's not as strong as WW2 when Germans butchered Russians but stronger than Afghan invasion in the 80s.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566826228191055872
Who is the Nazi?

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## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> Difference is that there is evidence for those 5701 while everything beyond that number is subjective estimation and guesswork.



Not going to reply to the rest, because we are just dancing around the issue. But I will say this. 

Just because they can confirm 5701 does not mean that's the actual death, in fact, that "Confirm" is still an estimation, because there is no way to know that 5701 name are really dead until Russian MOD acknowledge the death, there is a saying with Morturary service, you are not dead until the government said you are. 

in the military, especially with Military Intelligence, there are ways better than "Count Condolence Message" to estimate enemy killed in action, I have already written a post on the other thread, check it out or not is up to you. 

At the end of the day, if you believe in Russia only suffer 5701 KIA, then well, that's you, I cannot stop you from believing there were no Russian casualty if you say so. At the end of the day, fact remains, Russia are at the backfoot of this war, and that cannot be logically explain by that low amount of casualty.



Wood said:


> It is just a matter of time (perhaps a few more months) before DNR/LPR will run out of fighting bodies. The majority Slav people in Russia have played very little (proportional) loss in this war so far. Their turn is next. Perhaps then, they will feel the burden of loosing their loved ones for this delusion of a mad man


As far as I know, a lot of those people already resent Putin. 

But yes, unless Russia itself can be isolated from the conflict, there are no steppingstone for Putin to step down. But doing so would put the entire blame on the separatist. But in the end, Putin care no one but himself, chances of him caring about those DNR/LPR guy are almost next to none. You have to be really stupid to think Putin is helping you because of Russian/Slavic brotherhood......


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570045792806641667


----------



## Han Patriot

thetutle said:


> So be fair, you have weapons from the 1970's, or the kind of stuff US had in the 19070's. Those weapons are still pretty good. So congenitally you are not a threat to the west. Far from it. You are an emerging potential threat should you choose to disrupt the global order as defined by the west. So far you have not done that, and the way it's going, you probably wont.


Exactly, nothing to fear, just old Soviet technology. Nothing breathtaking and advanced. Lol. Why worry about us Chinamen. Concentrate on Russia and the Mideast. That's right, we can't possibly threaten you. Digital rmb which is the first central bank blockchain currency on earth is just hype, definitely absolutely not in use, US and EU are dwfenitely absolutely not panicking and contemplating their own version. There was also definitely absolutely no few hundred billion crissborder trade done in Rmb last year. Yes, it's all fake news. Lolol

YMTC memory being more advanced than Samsung is fake, Apple wasnt thinking about using it... All fake. 

The 32nm EUV machine we completed in 2017, that's bullshit too. The 7nm chip by Smic, hell no. The EMALS on type 003,that's fake the 600km/hr hsr train prototype. The 1200 VAC UHV grid, the largest pumped Hydro storage. Uh uh, all fake we ain't building up our country economically, technologically and militarily. Now close your eyes and sleep tight, just keep on thinking of RUSSIA. THAT'S RIGHT, RUSSIA. LOL


----------



## ZeGerman

Ah i see @SalarHaqq spent some time digging for sources to use for propaganda. 

Now he compares bbc research to confirmed russian deaths (a huge under-count in a country that hides deaths and supresses online critique) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/07/russia-ukraine-war-deaths-toll/

To a single statement from a ukranian general who was being dismissed https://english.nv.ua/amp/state-bur...olving-retired-general-krivonos-50266414.html.
A statement which could easily have been a slip of the tongue or out of spite. 


Now he thinks he found the “truth” on 5500 russian deaths vs hundreds of thousands ukranian soldiers. 
Ofcourse we can see how Salars logic plays out on the battlefield in Kharkiv…..

Keep trying Salar. Russia will lose this war, so it will be amusing to see you crawl around digging for more and more desperate ways to paint this as a russian success.


----------



## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Syria? All we did was put in a pinky finger, not the whole fist. But in Ukraine, your China had its chance but turned tailed and ran from a US proxy. Still think you can take Taiwan?


Yup just like Ukraine. You ain't gonna face the bear direct okay. Its always proxy and what did Syria taught you. The Russians haven't even unleash total war, these are their ethnic cousins for gods sake. They won't use what they used in Syria until the last resort. If they did that, Ukraine is as good as gone, and I can tell you Putin is giving Ukraine alot of chances to reverse course The pain and suffering will be the Ukrainians, the one cheering are the dumbwits here thinking this is a game against good and evil. Numb numbs wake up, its better to let Ukraine lose than win. Russia will unleash their most destructive power. You think you are good guys, but cheering for the destruction of Ukraine is not ethical mate. Use some common sense, Russia can Never lose. They will just do a total destruction when they get cornered dumb fcks.


----------



## SIPRA

SalarHaqq said:


> In social science it's classified as research.
> 
> 
> 
> The report is based on empirical data.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To reiterate, condolence messages were merely one of multiple sets of data surveyed.
> 
> 
> 
> Hence my statement that it's a measure of publicly available data on fallen Russian soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> Chances are that for the bulk of Russian forces fallen in the conflict, there's going to be some accessible indication among the multiple types of empirical sources investigated by those BBC journalists.
> 
> 
> 
> Redundant retort, addressed already.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and 2-300.000 casualties out of 6-700.000 thus far is a realistic figure.
> 
> 
> 
> Fact is the Ukrainian general thinks Ukrainian forces have had several hundreds of thousands of casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> Russians fielded more like 200.000. Ukraine proceeded with general mobilization. And their troops are all assigned to the same conflict regardless of the exact front section they're stationed at, whereas most units of the Russian armed forces aren't, they're stayin in Russia where there's no war going on.
> 
> 
> 
> You lose less defenders if there are only 100 of them versus if there are 10.000 assuming identical outcome i.e. enemy conquest of defended location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sources I cited are dealing with absolute numbers, not proportional loss!
> 
> 
> 
> See above.
> 
> 
> 
> Condolence messages, obituaries, funeral notices, news reports in Russian media and more.
> 
> 
> 
> Or most Russian losses occurred when they were conducting maneuver warfare in the early stage of the war, which allowed them to seize large swaths of territory. And then, they deliberately switched tactics and began focusing on artillery in order to reduce their casualties. Which is confirmed by the chronological breakdown of Russian KIA statistics in the chart I shared.
> 
> 
> 
> I know what they accomplished supposes a whole group of people to partcipate in data gathering.
> 
> 
> 
> They combed through a number of publicly accessible sources in which report troop deaths are reported. This method represents a shortcut which allows valid approximation.
> 
> 
> 
> As explained, the bulk of troop deaths are likely to leave some trace in either one of the data sets the BBC journalists studied. Especially in today's world where information circulates more intensely and is more readily available than ever, in a developed country at that.
> 
> 
> 
> Difference is that there is evidence for those 5701 while everything beyond that number is subjective estimation and guesswork.



Your analysis of the situation is excellent.


----------



## Han Patriot

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Motivation is defending Russian speakers from Kiev army artillery. It's not as strong as WW2 when Germans butchered Russians but stronger than Afghan invasion in the 80s.


The idiotic natard cheerleaders don't even understand that Russia have not even went total war. In total war, the Ukrainians would be razed to the ground. You think you will still have Kiev standing with politicians sending selfies and tweeting? These people here are delusional, pushing Russia to a corner will just cause catastrophe. I pray for the Ukrainians now matey. Let Ukraine agree to a deal not push for total war. As usual US will just cheer for world destruction. These retards want to reset the world by burning it to ashes. THEY ARE WOKE BUT NOT AWAKE.


----------



## Broccoli

kingQamaR said:


> A brilliant feint by Ukraine. Get the Russians beefing up one part of the front, then attack the area weakened by troop withdrawals. Yet more huge failings by Russian intelligence services.



It's actually amazing how poor Russian recce capabilities are.

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## PakFactor

Han Patriot said:


> The idiotic natard cheerleaders don't even understand that Russia have not even went total war. In total war, the Ukrainians would be razed to the ground. You think you will still have Kiev standing with politicians sending selfies and tweeting? These people here are delusional, pushing Russia to a corner will just cause catastrophe. I pray for the Ukrainians now matey. Let Ukraine agree to a deal not push for total war. As usual US will just cheer for world destruction. These retards want to reset the world by burning it to ashes. THEY ARE WOKE BUT NOT AWAKE.



That's Russia's fault for not going total war; you ever seen a boxer going into the ring with one hand tied behind his back?

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## SIPRA

Bengal71 said:


> What are you blabbering about? Who is Russian cheerleader?



Any person, who tries to do some independent analysis of the situation, is invariably called a "Russian Cheerleader", by those, who are, in fact, "US Cheerleaders". That is how it is, unfortunately.

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## Zarvan

Han Patriot said:


> Yup just like Ukraine. You ain't gonna face the bear direct okay. Its always proxy and what did Syria taught you. The Russians haven't even unleash total war, these are their ethnic cousins for gods sake. They won't use what they used in Syria until the last resort. If they did that, Ukraine is as good as gone, and I can tell you Putin is giving Ukraine alot of chances to reverse course The pain and suffering will be the Ukrainians, the one cheering are the dumbwits here thinking this is a game against good and evil. Numb numbs wake up, its better to let Ukraine lose than win. Russia will unleash their most destructive power. You think you are good guys, but cheering for the destruction of Ukraine is not ethical mate. Use some common sense, Russia can Never lose. They will just do a total destruction when they get cornered dumb fcks.


Russia except for nukes unleashed everything they got. It's Ukrainians who fought back which even USA and NATO thought won't happen

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## Broccoli

Han Patriot said:


> The idiotic natard cheerleaders don't even understand that Russia have not even went total war. In total war, the Ukrainians would be razed to the ground. You think you will still have Kiev standing with politicians sending selfies and tweeting? These people here are delusional, pushing Russia to a corner will just cause catastrophe. I pray for the Ukrainians now matey. Let Ukraine agree to a deal not push for total war. As usual US will just cheer for world destruction. These retards want to reset the world by burning it to ashes. THEY ARE WOKE BUT NOT AWAKE.



We're already going with the nuke talks? Russia doesn't have money nor equipment for "total war", but I guess even you begin to realize slowly that Russia ain't gonna win this war.

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## SIPRA

PakFactor said:


> That's Russia's fault for not going total war; you ever seen a boxer going into the ring with one hand tied behind his back?



Sir Jee: There is a difference between geopolitics and a boxing match.


----------



## PakFactor

SIPRA said:


> Sir Jee: There is a difference between geopolitics and a boxing match.



I know I’m responding to the other poster saying Russia didn’t go all out, hence my response, who goes to war half-hearted?

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## kingQamaR

Broccoli said:


> It's actually amazing how poor Russian recce capabilities are.



Indeed, 

Ukraine it seems the combination of their bravery mixed with intelligence and weaponry provided by NATO countries is what makes the Ukrainian military very effective


----------



## Han Patriot

Zarvan said:


> Russia except for nukes unleashed everything they got. It's Ukrainians who fought back which even USA and NATO thought won't happen


Not really mate, civillan infrastructure was mostly intact as does deaths. They didn't target alot of civillan infrastructure through Syrian style carpet bombing. They used precision ammunition alot, which is to reduce destruction.



Broccoli said:


> We're already going with the nuke talks? Russia doesn't have money nor equipment for "total war", but I guess even you begin to realize slowly that Russia ain't gonna win this war.


You don't need nukes for total destruction. Compare Syria with Ukriane with so many civilian infrastructure intact. Russia haven't even started carpet bombing Ukriane. You know the good old bombing ala WW2? Tahts total war, not using cruise missiles to avoid civilian casualties.


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## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> Exactly, nothing to fear, just old Soviet technology. Nothing breathtaking and advanced. Lol. Why worry about us Chinamen. Concentrate on Russia and the Mideast. That's right, we can't possibly threaten you. Digital rmb which is the first central bank blockchain currency on earth is just hype, definitely absolutely not in use, US and EU are dwfenitely absolutely not panicking and contemplating their own version. There was also definitely absolutely no few hundred billion crissborder trade done in Rmb last year. Yes, it's all fake news. Lolol
> 
> YMTC memory being more advanced than Samsung is fake, Apple wasnt thinking about using it... All fake.
> 
> The 32nm EUV machine we completed in 2017, that's bullshit too. The 7nm chip by Smic, hell no. The EMALS on type 003,that's fake the 600km/hr hsr train prototype. The 1200 VAC UHV grid, the largest pumped Hydro storage. Uh uh, all fake we ain't building up our country economically, technologically and militarily. Now close your eyes and sleep tight, just keep on thinking of RUSSIA. THAT'S RIGHT, RUSSIA. LOL


It is good you stopped squeeling about that untested “good on paper” PLA.

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## jhungary

Broccoli said:


> We're already going with the nuke talks? Russia doesn't have money nor equipment for "total war", but I guess even you begin to realize slowly that Russia ain't gonna win this war.


Well, you are talking to a dude, presented with all the fact that even Russia agreed still think Ukraine should sue for peace. 

That tell you how delusion these people are. 

And then the nuke talk is just amazing, sure, Russia spends that many people and equipment so they can nuke Ukraine......If they want to nuke Ukraine, they would have done so already, why waste that many people and resource in the first place..

But then what do you expect from our resident troll here. Nothing to see here, it's just the daily dose of US don't dare to go against the bear.......

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## F-22Raptor

Broccoli said:


> We're already going with the nuke talks? Russia doesn't have money nor equipment for "total war", but I guess even you begin to realize slowly that Russia ain't gonna win this war.



I’ve never understood the Russia “holding back” argument. Sure, they could go full mobilization and call up a bunch of cannon fodder, but a huge amount of their armored force is destroyed. Likely 40-50%, and 85% of their entire forces were deployed to Ukraine. They don’t have much in reserve they can activate.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Indeed,
> 
> Ukraine it seems the combination of their bravery mixed with intelligence and weaponry provided by NATO countries is what makes the Ukrainian military very effective


What I found interesting is that Russia fold that fast. 

That means they do not even realise the Ukrainian are gathering force and momentum to pull a counter attack. I mean, in this day and age, it's not hard to know your enemy is gathering troop. They allowed the Ukrainian to gather up enough momentum and troop to push them over in 1 fell stroke. I mean, what is the Russian intelligence doing??

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569718134025719809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570053910383022081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570027833744936961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570059623104749570


F-22Raptor said:


> I’ve never understood the Russia “holding back” argument. Sure, they could go full mobilization and call up a bunch of cannon fodder, but a huge amount of their armored force is destroyed. Likely 40-50%, and 85% of their entire forces were deployed to Ukraine. They don’t have much in reserve they can activate.



They are the same ones saying "But Russia is only sending their second tier armed forces,the real army is waiting for NATO",while their elite divisions were pulverized in Ukraine so much that they have to send sailors with minimum training in tanks.

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## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> Not really mate, civillan infrastructure was mostly intact as does deaths. They didn't target alot of civillan infrastructure through Syrian style carpet bombing. They used precision ammunition alot, which is to reduce destruction.
> 
> 
> You don't need nukes for total destruction. Compare Syria with Ukriane with so many civilian infrastructure intact. Russia haven't even started carpet bombing Ukriane. You know the good old bombing ala WW2? Tahts total war, not using cruise missiles to avoid civilian casualties.


Well they leveled plenty of villages and cities with artillery….but here goes:

1. Russia does not have control of ukranian air. 
2. Doing carpetbombing style goes against their excuse for war “freeing brothers in ukraine from nazis”. 
3. Russia now has hardly any global support. Carpetbombing will make it a total paria.
4. Doing carpetbombing will push countries/nato into establishing no fly zone. Russian airforce stands no chance. 
5carpetbombing does not help win the ukranian population over. They will sow immense hatred for generations and thus a costly post-war occupation.

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## Han Patriot

PakFactor said:


> That's Russia's fault for not going total war; you ever seen a boxer going into the ring with one hand tied behind his back?



Dude do you realise Putin upping the intensity everytime?



ZeGerman said:


> Well they leveled plenty of villages and cities with artillery….but here goes:
> 
> 1. Russia does not have control of ukranian air.
> 2. Doing carpetbombing style goes against their excuse for war “freeing brothers in ukraine from nazis”.
> 3. Russia now has hardly any global support. Carpetbombing will make it a total paria.
> 4. Doing carpetbombing will push countries/nato into establishing no fly zone. Russian airforce stands no chance.
> 5carpetbombing does not help win the ukranian population over. They will sow immense hatred for generations and thus a costly post-war occupation.


Yup Kiev is still standing. Russia could have easily levelled Kiev mate. You coukld level a village with a tank mate.

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## Vergennes

what a bunch of clowns


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570017197279305729

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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Yup just like Ukraine. You ain't gonna face the bear direct okay. Its always proxy and what did Syria taught you. *The Russians haven't even unleash total war, these are their ethnic cousins for gods sake. *They won't use what they used in Syria until the last resort. If they did that, Ukraine is as good as gone, and I can tell you Putin is giving Ukraine alot of chances to reverse course The pain and suffering will be the Ukrainians, the one cheering are the dumbwits here thinking this is a game against good and evil. Numb numbs wake up, its better to let Ukraine lose than win. Russia will unleash their most destructive power. You think you are good guys, but cheering for the destruction of Ukraine is not ethical mate. Use some common sense, Russia can Never lose. They will just do a total destruction when they get cornered dumb fcks.


But you guys have been telling the world that if necessary, China would raze Taiwan even though the Taiwanese are ethnic cousins. So why should the Russians be any different, especially when their Ukrainians 'cousins' are even more threatening than Taiwan is to China? If you have to resort to this myth of 'total war' argument, it mean you lost the argument. You do not know what you are talking about and grasping at rhetorical straws to save face.

If the threat of a 'nuclearized' Ukraine via NATO was not enough to release that 'total war' capability, then what make you think the current losses by Russia will release it? It looks like Poutine overestimated Russia and underestimated the West. With the Cuban Missile Crisis, the US could have actually invaded the island but we chose the next level down: blockade. We did it because we knew that no one in the Western Hemisphere could come to Cuba's aid and the Soviet Union was nearly as helpless because the Soviet Union did not have sufficient logistical capabilities to support Cuba. With Ukraine, it seems Poutine thought that the US/NATO would do nothing, not could do nothing because Ukraine is land connected to the NATO countries. So Poutine must have know that logistics was not a problem for Ukraine. But he invaded with 'partial war' capability because he (wrongly) thought that the West would do nothing. Looks like Poutine is not so good of a strategist, eh? Should have gone 'total war' from the start.

But now you, numb numb, are telling us that Poutine is too much of a humanitarian and restrains his 'total war' until the last moment? When will that be? The US/NATO is still arming Ukraine, so when will Poutine act on this 'total war' capability? You are no more knowledgeable of Russia-Ukraine relationship than any of us here. I would say you are equally clueless about the China-Taiwan relationship.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## newb3e

ZeGerman said:


> Stop with your taliban supermen bullshit please.
> 
> Coalition kicked out taliban from kabul with a few thousand men.
> In 20 years occupation, never lost a conventional battle.
> Last years of occupation lost very low amount of troops (dozens)…clearly not “forced out” by might but by money/Patience
> 
> While here we see russian troops routing, losing tens of thousands men, abandoning hundreds of tanks,bmps….


so when Soviets ran out of money and patience and had to step back from cold war hollywood termed that as a defeat but not in Amreikays case during afghan war? 

what are standars ser? or we all suppose to watch top guns and bow down to amrikay?


----------



## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> Yup Kiev is still standing. Russia could have easily levelled Kiev mate. You coukld level a village with a tank mate.


How? Explain to me in Military Term. How Russia could have easily levelled a city like Kyiv?

I am not going to challenge the "You could level a village with a tank" as a 19A, I know for a fact that it is Impossible to do.

But do tell me how Russia can easily level a city as big as Kyiv?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

Broccoli said:


> We're already going with the nuke talks? Russia doesn't have money nor equipment for "total war", but I guess even you begin to realize slowly that Russia ain't gonna win this war.


I compared the Russian military to a mechanic whose skills are limited to changing the oil and air filter, any more complex and it is the 'nuclear option': scrap the motor.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

PakFactor said:


> who goes to war half-hearted?


Clearly russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> But you guys have been telling the world that if necessary, China would raze Taiwan even though the Taiwanese are ethnic cousins. So why should the Russians be any different, especially when their Ukrainians 'cousins' are even more threatening than Taiwan is to China? If you have to resort to this myth of 'total war' argument, it mean you lost the argument. You do not know what you are talking about and grasping at rhetorical straws to save face.
> 
> If the threat of a 'nuclearized' Ukraine via NATO was not enough to release that 'total war' capability, then what make you think the current losses by Russia will release it? It looks like Poutine overestimated Russia and underestimated the West. With the Cuban Missile Crisis, the US could have actually invaded the island but we chose the next level down: blockade. We did it because we knew that no one in the Western Hemisphere could come to Cuba's aid and the Soviet Union was nearly as helpless because the Soviet Union did not have sufficient logistical capabilities to support Cuba. With Ukraine, it seems Poutine thought that the US/NATO would do nothing, not could do nothing because Ukraine is land connected to the NATO countries. So Poutine must have know that logistics was not a problem for Ukraine. But he invaded with 'partial war' capability because he (wrongly) thought that the West would do nothing. Looks like Poutine is not so good of a strategist, eh? Should have gone 'total war' from the start.
> 
> But now you, numb numb, are telling us that Poutine is too much of a humanitarian and restrains his 'total war' until the last moment? When will that be? The US/NATO is still arming Ukraine, so when will Poutine act on this 'total war' capability? You are no more knowledgeable of Russia-Ukraine relationship than any of us here. I would say you are equally clueless about the China-Taiwan relationship.



Did we say that we will raze Taiwan? Please send me an official document saying we will raze Taiwan. If you can find one official statement, I would be willing to kiss your ***, if you can't find it, then please kiss mine. Lolol. Read the official statement and come back to me and talk Jose. 

Threat of a nuclearized Ukraine, what are you even smoking numbnuts. Ukraine had nukes, not have nukes, US swore to protect Ukraine on exchange for abandoning it. But now we know that protection meant proxy wars. Lolol. 

Putin is restrained not humanitarian. I will bet with you that Russia will not 'lose' this war. How much do you want to bet? Lol



gambit said:


> I compared the Russian military to a mechanic whose skills are limited to changing the oil and air filter, any more complex and it is the 'nuclear option': scrap the motor.


It's so poor but where is the stronk USA? I wonder.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Clearly russia.


For Mr Han Job? It's everyone but China.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

jhungary said:


> How? Explain to me in Military Term. How Russia could have easily levelled a city like Kyiv?
> 
> I am not going to challenge the "You could level a village with a tank" as a 19A, I know for a fact that it is Impossible to do.
> 
> But do tell me how Russia can easily level a city as big as Kyiv?


The PLA will send meals to Putin’s hungry troops. Voila, the victory is on the horizon. Every city will be leveled. Because chinese foods make them stronger.


----------



## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> Did we say that we will raze Taiwan? Please send me an official document saying we will raze Taiwan. If you can find one official statement, I would be willing to kiss your ***, if you can't find it, then please kiss mine. Lolol. Read the official statement and come back to me and talk Jose.


Am not saying official Chinese government policy. I was talking about you guys on this forum on how easy it would be for China to destroy Taiwan. How often some of you here said that if Taiwan declare independence, China should destroy Taiwan. Do not bother to nit-pick on the word 'destroy'. I seen enough of you guys' comments.



Han Patriot said:


> Threat of a nuclearized Ukraine, what are you even smoking numbnuts. Ukraine had nukes, not have nukes, US swore to protect Ukraine on exchange for abandoning it. But now we know that protection meant proxy wars. Lolol.


We already gone thru this and that argument did not fly.



Han Patriot said:


> Putin is restrained not humanitarian. I will bet with you that Russia will not 'lose' this war. How much do you want to bet? Lol


Sure, the bet is your reputation.


----------



## ZeGerman

newb3e said:


> so when Soviets ran out of money and patience and had to step back from cold war hollywood termed that as a defeat but not in Amreikays case during afghan war?
> 
> what are standars ser? or we all suppose to watch top guns and bow down to amrikay?


Well they did lose 5 times the troops and the financial stress caused the end of the soviet union…so that defeat was a bit harsher.

But yeah…the americans also strategically lost in afghanistan. With taliban coming back in power. The defeat however was mostly due to failing state building and mobilizing the population for western cause/ideology. 
I mean 2020 coalition had 11 casualties.
2021 under 20. 
We also left an ANA army stronger (on paper) in material and size then Ukraines army….

So i cringe when i see people talk how west got “chased out” by sandal wearing afghans.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Viet said:


> The PLA will send meals to Putin’s hungry troops. Voila, the victory is on the horizon. Every city will be leveled. Because chinese foods make them stronger.


Or made them all die from diarrhoea........

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## ZeGerman

ZeGerman said:


> Well they did lose 5 times the troops and the financial stress caused the end of the soviet union…so that defeat was a bit harsher.
> 
> But yeah…the americans also strategically lost in afghanistan. With taliban coming back in power. The defeat however was mostly due to failing state building and mobilizing the population for western cause/ideology.
> I mean 2020 coalition had 11 casualties.
> 2021 under 20.
> We also left an ANA army stronger (on paper) in material and size then Ukraines army….
> 
> So i cringe when i see people talk how west got “chased out” by sandal wearing afghans.


Eghh i noticed it is hard for me to openly say.

But yes. coalition was defeated in afghanistan. 
The taliban played the long game better.


----------



## thetutle

Han Patriot said:


> Dude do you realise Putin upping the intensity everytime?
> 
> 
> Yup Kiev is still standing. Russia could have easily levelled Kiev mate. You coukld level a village with a tank mate.


I hope you are not some strategist in the PLA. God help them if you are. I'm sure Taiwan would be very pleased if you are. 


Han Patriot said:


> I will bet with you that Russia will not 'lose' this war. How much do you want to bet? Lol


I would bet my life on it. I'd bet the whole western civilisation on it. They will not allow russia to expand its borders westwards. The west will not allow it under any circumstances. Despite what I want or you want. This is already decided in Washington and European centres of power, so russian defeat is as close as you will get to 100% certainty.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Or made them all die from diarrhoea........


Maybe better than died by hunger and thirst. Large russian contingent is trapped at Cherson. No foods, no waters. The PLA should send food bombers. Putin needs them alive to level Kiew.


----------



## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Am not saying official Chinese government policy. I was talking about you guys on this forum on how easy it would be for China to destroy Taiwan. How often some of you here said that if Taiwan declare independence, China should destroy Taiwan. Do not bother to nit-pick on the word 'destroy'. I seen enough of you guys' comments.
> 
> 
> We already gone thru this and that argument did not fly.
> 
> 
> Sure, the bet is your reputation.



Ahhh so now is people on the forum, since when does anonymous people in a forum represents China? Means you can't produce any official statement or policy right? Lolol. But you were so sure we were gonna raze our cousins. 

Yup the bet is on. I had a dumbfck here ranting about uniforms for 3 pages and then told me lng is delivered in pipelines. Lol


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Maybe better than died by hunger and thirst. Large russian contingent is trapped at Cherson. No foods, no waters. The PLA should send food bombers.


I would much rather to die of hunger than from diarrhoea.......dysentery is a horrible way to go......


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570046339743981570

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570071577907052545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570069006689751042


----------



## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> Ahhh so now is people on the forum, since when does anonymous people in a forum represents China? Means you can't produce any official statement or policy right? Lolol. But you were so sure we were gonna raze our cousins.
> 
> Yup the bet is on. I had a dumbfck here ranting about uniforms for 3 pages and then told me lng is delivered in pipelines. Lol


Not as much as someone who start talk about US uniform when he has no idea what the hack is going on.....

Dude, thanks for reminding me, that's priceless.

Lol a Dress Blue is a Parade Uniform, man, that's beyond funny.

Plus Mr Oil and Gas don't know LNG is delivered via pipeline....









Liquefied Natural Gas | LNG | Special Piping Materials


Liquefied natural gas or LNG is natural gas that has been converted temporarily to liquid form for ease of storage or transport.




specialpipingmaterials.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570068395097489410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570068427653681152


----------



## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> How? Explain to me in Military Term. How Russia could have easily levelled a city like Kyiv?
> 
> I am not going to challenge the "You could level a village with a tank" as a 19A, I know for a fact that it is Impossible to do.
> 
> But do tell me how Russia can easily level a city as big as Kyiv



Exactly, how do they even do that Mr LNG. Tell me. I don't even know anything taht you can Google. Lol


----------



## newb3e

ZeGerman said:


> Well they did lose 5 times the troops and the financial stress caused the end of the soviet union…so that defeat was a bit harsher.
> 
> But yeah…the americans also strategically lost in afghanistan. With taliban coming back in power. The defeat however was mostly due to failing state building and mobilizing the population for western cause/ideology.
> I mean 2020 coalition had 11 casualties.
> 2021 under 20.
> We also left an ANA army stronger (on paper) in material and size then Ukraines army….
> 
> So i cringe when i see people talk how west got “chased out” by sandal wearing afghans.


lols

Hollywood never loses!!

dint Tom cruise single handedly destroyed the whole Russian army/airforce sitting in a rusty not flying just be sitting his arse on the seat of P 51!!!

crazy! so powa ful!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> Not as much as someone who start talk about US uniform when he has no idea what the hack is going on.....
> 
> Dude, thanks for reminding me, that's priceless.
> 
> Lol a Dress Blue is a Parade Uniform, man, that's beyond funny.
> 
> Plus Mr Oil and Gas don't know LNG is delivered via pipeline....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liquefied Natural Gas | LNG | Special Piping Materials
> 
> 
> Liquefied natural gas or LNG is natural gas that has been converted temporarily to liquid form for ease of storage or transport.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> specialpipingmaterials.com


Triggered.... Lolol.. So you do admit US does have uniforms for parade right? Lolol. You were telling all of us there isn't any 'parade' uniform. 1 2 3, okay start the rant now...... Lolololol


----------



## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> Exactly, how do they even do that Mr LNG. Tell me. I don't even know anything taht you can Google. Lol


I never claim to be Mr LNG, unlike someone who once told me he is building ship for storage platform, so he is into "Oil and Gas Business"

LOL

And I am asking you, I didn't say they are easy to level Kyiv, you did.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570045327649947648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570066024082427905


----------



## thetutle

Han Patriot said:


> Man, the usual emotional woke bet. You don't have to bet as if you are an angel okay. You dimwits are just cheerleaders for a US proxy war to fck up Europe and Russia. Its to ensure Dollar dominance and weaken Euro. I bet based on logics not emotions, I don't fight for the light numbnuts.


Maybe you have trouble understanding Europe. Europe will pick US and freedom any day over the Ruble and Russian occupation. Especially the Eastern Europeans. If Ukraine falls, 40 million refugees will go to europe. Europe will not allow this. Neither will America. 

There is zero chance russia wins this. Maybe at best it keeps some territory and Ukraine gets into NATO and border with russia in the west freezes for a loooong looong time. And if Russia ever becomes democratic, even this land will have to be returned. 

You are welcome to live in your fantasy how russia will win and defeat everyone. Thats fine. But I'm just telling you what will happen.


----------



## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> So you do admit US does have uniforms for parade right? Lolol. You were telling all of us there isn't any 'parade' uniform. 1 2 3, okay start the rant now...... Lolololol


Oh wow, here we goes again.

*EVERY UNIFORM CAN BE USED FOR PARADE.* And I did not say they did not have parade, but you are the one that say "You use the uniform for parade not used for combat" lol.


----------



## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> Not as much as someone who start talk about US uniform when he has no idea what the hack is going on.....
> 
> Dude, thanks for reminding me, that's priceless.
> 
> Lol a Dress Blue is a Parade Uniform, man, that's beyond funny.
> 
> Plus Mr Oil and Gas don't know LNG is delivered via pipeline....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liquefied Natural Gas | LNG | Special Piping Materials
> 
> 
> Liquefied natural gas or LNG is natural gas that has been converted temporarily to liquid form for ease of storage or transport.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> specialpipingmaterials.com



So tell me which pipeline is delivering LNG using pipelines? And at what temperature. Are you sure you are not mistaking regasified LNG aka Gas in gas form in pipelines? Lololol.. Come on Google fast faster goooo


----------



## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> So tell me which pipeline is delivering LNG using pipelines? And at what temperature. Are you sure you are not mistaking regasified LNG aka Gas in gas form in pipelines? Lololol.. Come on Google fast faster goooo


So are you saying Gladstone pipeline did not exist? Wow, my tax dollar went to waste again.





__





QLD: Australia Pacific LNG Gladstone Pipeline


The Australia Pacific LNG Gladstone Pipeline (also known as the APLNG Pipeline or the APLNG Mainline) is a transmission pipeline in central Queensland. The pipeline is owned by Australia Pacific LNG (APLNG), which is a joint venture between Origin Energy, ConocoPhillips and Sinopec. Origin...




www.aemc.gov.au





And you claim to be mr Oil and Gas, now google faster, gooooo


----------



## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> Oh wow, here we goes again.
> 
> *EVERY UNIFORM CAN BE USED FOR PARADE.* And I did not say they did not have parade, but you are the one that say "You use the uniform for parade not used for combat" lol.



Don't get angry and triggered mate. Relax x... So there is a 'parade' uniform?


----------



## Mista

Vergennes said:


> They are the same ones saying "But Russia is only sending their second tier armed forces,the real army is waiting for NATO",while their elite divisions were pulverized in Ukraine so much that they have to send sailors with minimum training in tanks.



You just don't understand. Like retreating from Snake Island, Russia not sending its best troops is a goodwill gesture to Ukraine.

Putin could've easily capture Kyiv with his elite troops, but no, he cares about the lives of ordinary Ukrainian civilians. He would rather lose more equipment and see more of his troops die everyday. After all, he just reaffirmed that Russia has lost nothing. That alone just tells you that the lives of Russian troops are nothing compared to the lives of Ukrainians in Putin's eyes. That's what I call universal love.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> What I found interesting is that Russia fold that fast.
> 
> That means they do not even realise the Ukrainian are gathering force and momentum to pull a counter attack. I mean, in this day and age, it's not hard to know your enemy is gathering troop. They allowed the Ukrainian to gather up enough momentum and troop to push them over in 1 fell stroke. I mean, what is the Russian intelligence doing??



Good post. 

Russia has also failed with supply and logistics, including countering hostile drone intelligence gathering and targeting. 

Where the hell is Russia has, incredibly given its air force numbers, utterly failed to gain consistent air superiority over Ukraine. No, I am afraid the failures of the Russian military are so great that morale must have taken a hit, and if your soldiers don't want to fight any more, then 'for you, ze var is over'


----------



## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> Don't get angry and triggered mate. Relax x... So there is a 'parade' uniform?


Are there uniform? And yeah, Dress Blue is a "Parade" uniform, I would like you to say that to a Marine

Really, please do go.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570017102299381763

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570030173499555840


----------



## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> Lil dumb wit, this is a pipeline transmitting GAS to a lNG plant to be liquefied. Fck man, please stop being stupid and understand physics. LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.


look like you are the one that don't understand physics....

That is a field pipeline dude, it's not used to flow (You don't transmit gas by the way) gas into LNG plant to be liquified, have you even read that page I show you, tell me where is the end of that pipeline??

Again, no amount of personal insult would make your post smarter, it only makes you look like a loser.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SIPRA

newb3e said:


> Hollywood never loses!!



Hollywood and Bollywood in competition. See, who wins?


----------



## newb3e

SIPRA said:


> Hollywood and Bollywood in competition. See, who wins?


always tom cruise!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SIPRA

newb3e said:


> always tom cruise!



..... and Akshay Kumar.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## newb3e

SIPRA said:


> ..... and Akshay Kumar.


AK is Robin TC is Batman!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> 'The APLNG Pipeline transports gas from APLNG’s coal seam gas fields in the Bowen-Surat basins near Wandoan in central Queensland to APLNG’s LNG processing facility at Curtis Island near Gladstone. '
> 
> Serious dude. You should use those tax money and educate yourself in basic science. LNG stands for liquified Natural Gas. You need to deliver gas to be liquified, then transport it using LNG carriers. Do you even understand the pressure used to compressed it into liquid would make the normal pipes explode not to mention the cryogenic temperatures make the material brittle. Understand dumbfvk? Lol


lol, you really have no clue didn't you. Again, check where is the pipeline end, it does not end with Curtis Island. 

But yeah, keep up the "dumbfuk" insult, that make you look legit



kingQamaR said:


> Good post.
> 
> Russia has also failed with supply and logistics, including countering hostile drone intelligence gathering and targeting.
> 
> Where the hell is Russia has, incredibly given its air force numbers, utterly failed to gain consistent air superiority over Ukraine. No, I am afraid the failures of the Russian military are so great that morale must have taken a hit, and if your soldiers don't want to fight any more, then 'for you, ze var is over'


I will most likely go one further, the entire Russian command and control structure is basically F'ed up. 

There should be a person in charge of just about everything but seems like all these set back and short coming came from oversight from the command level. I am pretty sure there are Russian collaborator in Ukrainian line, and I am pretty sure they had reported Ukrainian troop movement, but that information was not pipe down to command structure before it was basically too late, it makes you wonder who is prosecuting the war at senior level?


----------



## Viet

Mista said:


> You just don't understand. Like retreating from Snake Island, Russia not sending its best troops is a goodwill gesture to Ukraine.
> 
> Putin could've easily capture Kyiv with his elite troops, but no, he cares about the lives of ordinary Ukrainian civilians. He would rather lose more equipment and see more of his troops die everyday. After all, he just reaffirmed that Russia has lost nothing. That alone just tells you that the lives of Russian troops are nothing compared to the lives of Ukrainians in Putin's eyes. That's what I call universal love.


I lose nothing.

- Vladimir Putin


----------



## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> lol, you really have no clue didn't you. Again, check where is the pipeline end, it does not end with Curtis Island.
> 
> But yeah, keep up the "dumbfuk" insult, that make you look legit


Gosh, your last attempt at saving face. So tell me where does the pipeline end and what does it carry? And tell me which consumer uses LNG directly. Lololol.


----------



## newb3e

SIPRA said:


> Hollywood and Bollywood in competition. See, who wins?


was just watching cnn braging about how Ukraine Capture few sqr kms (made it look like they fking capture Moscow) white pussies only good at fighting perception war!!

they created this false facade of wester superiority made them look like champions of human rights 

while these fkers dropped a nuclear bomb and the reason they gave was that they dint wanted to prolong war so they fucking killed hunders of thousands 
they dropped bombs on civilians because there were "terrorist" while they just wanted OIl

they support Israhell because they want a strategic partner in middle easy!

fucking hypocrites!

Reactions: Love Love:
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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I lose nothing.
> 
> - Vladimir Putin
> 
> View attachment 879097



He probably made some money on top of the war....lol




Han Patriot said:


> Gosh, your last attempt at saving face. So tell me where does the pipeline end and what does it carry? And tell me which consumer uses LNG directly. Lololol.


Seems to me, it's you who think people use crude oil directly, as you said Brent Price is the only reason Oil price is high.
Sure they bought crude with Brent Price and put it directly in the pump.

I am still waiting on the answer to the question I asked you like a month ago, I will tell you where it ends up and what does it carry in a month if you can tell me what is the 5-factor affecting oil price.

Now....Goggle..........GOOOO


----------



## SIPRA

newb3e said:


> was just watching cnn braging about how Ukraine Capture few sqr kms (made it look like they fking capture Moscow) white pussies only good at fighting perception war!!
> 
> they created this false facade of wester superiority made them look like champions of human rights
> 
> while these fkers dropped a nuclear bomb and the reason they gave was that they dint wanted to prolong war so they fucking killed hunders of thousands
> they dropped bombs on civilians because there were "terrorist" while they just wanted OIl
> 
> they support Israhell because they want a strategic partner in middle easy!
> 
> fucking hypocrites!



By and large, geopolitics and international relations are utterly devoid of principles of morality, justice and fair play. It is fundamentally a power game. That is how, it is, and we all have to live with it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570081723815460864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570074364564983809


----------



## Hossiiee

F-22Raptor said:


> I’ve never understood the Russia “holding back” argument. Sure, they could go full mobilization and call up a bunch of cannon fodder, but a huge amount of their armored force is destroyed. Likely 40-50%, and 85% of their entire forces were deployed to Ukraine. They don’t have much in reserve they can activate.


85%? You do realise that Russia including reserves has an army of about 2 milion. They only sent around 150k troops at most. Rest of the forces are LPR, DPR, Chechens and Wagner. So what the hell are you talking about? Sure Ukraine is doing a fine job against 10% of Russian army.. But the moment the Russian federation decides to go full force this war is over. You know it, I know it, everybody know it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia's new strategy is missile attacks to knock out Ukraine's critical infrastructure and cause millions of Ukrainian refugees to flood into EU. 10 years from now Ukraine's population fall below 30 or even 20 million. By then Ukraine is weak and Russia invade Odessa.

What do you think of this strategy?

@Viet @gambit @Oldman1


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570083098380976129

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Hossiiee said:


> 85%? You do realise that Russia including reserves has an army of about 2 milion. They only sent around 150k troops at most. Rest of the forces are LPR, DPR, Chechens and Wagner. So what the hell are you talking about? Sure Ukraine is doing a fine job against 10% of Russian army.. But the moment the Russian federation decides to go full force this war is over. You know it, I know it, everybody know it.



Russia has committed more than 80% of its army's available BTGs. Russian army is only comprised of something like 200 to 300K personnels,large part of them are conscripts.

And what are you going to send those so called "2 millions" with ? Mosint nagants and T55s ? And mass mobilization won't work,you are mistaken if you think Russians would fight and die for Putler's imperialistic dreams.

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## SIPRA

Hossiiee said:


> 85%? You do realise that Russia including reserves has an army of about 2 milion. They only sent around 150k troops at most. Rest of the forces are LPR, DPR, Chechens and Wagner. So what the hell are you talking about? Sure Ukraine is doing a fine job against 10% of Russian army.. But the moment the Russian federation decides to go full force this war is over. You know it, I know it, everybody know it.



Excellent factual analysis.

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## thetutle

Hossiiee said:


> 85%? You do realise that Russia including reserves has an army of about 2 milion. They only sent around 150k troops at most. Rest of the forces are LPR, DPR, Chechens and Wagner. So what the hell are you talking about? Sure Ukraine is doing a fine job against 10% of Russian army.. But the moment the Russian federation decides to go full force this war is over. You know it, I know it, everybody know it.


I down know, I think this is their best. If they send a million partially trained conscripts without air superiority, it will just make a very very target rich environment.

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## Viet

Hossiiee said:


> 85%? You do realise that Russia including reserves has an army of about 2 milion. They only sent around 150k troops at most. Rest of the forces are LPR, DPR, Chechens and Wagner. So what the hell are you talking about? Sure Ukraine is doing a fine job against 10% of Russian army.. But the moment the Russian federation decides to go full force this war is over. You know it, I know it, everybody know it.


Those 2 millions are not fighting troops. Most are civil personnel. Probably less 500,000 fighting personnel Putin can send to the war. That means all land, air and sea forces. Even if he sends 500k into Ukraine, that would not be a winning game.
you can see at the battle of Charkiw. Too many weaklings and cowards among Russian troops.
They ran away leaving all equipment behind.

Russia army is exposed as a giant propaganda.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

F-22Raptor said:


> How’s that Russian offensive going Hassan?  Russia has now lost 600 pieces of armor and equipment since September 1 and the entire Kharkiv Oblast. Your on a sinking ship and don’t even realize it.


He will soon be back with information about Russian encirclement operations around Belgorod and Rostov.


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## newb3e

SIPRA said:


> By and large, geopolitics and international relations are utterly devoid of principles of morality, justice and fair play. It is fundamentally a power game. That is how, it is, and we all have to live with it.


thats why this whole system is flawed and has been for ages and will come down crashing! even Tom cruise will fail!

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## StraightEdge

I "think" Russian commands are drunk on some heavy shit, or maybe they are just corrupt where only few incompetent members got promoted. Otherwise, I have no clue why they didn't attack critical infrastructure or made Ukraine completely dark or destroyed the dams etc., The 1st things you usually do is to take out communications, infrastructure etc., This is such a "weird" war. Either nuke Ukraine out of existence or be smart and take out every critical thing they have. 

Whatever it is, it has completely destroyed any perception of Russian might or Putin's power. Many countries and media would have still taken the Russian propaganda if they could at least shown some resemblance of planing or execution. 

To me they just look like a tough guy drinking vodka with a messy beard but having a IQ of 34.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570078265624375297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570078269021503489


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## SIPRA

newb3e said:


> thats why this whole system is flawed and has been for ages and will come down crashing! even Tom cruise will fail!



Perhaps. I am not sure.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

New warnings from Russia:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570005982209798145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569840512064000000

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## A.P. Richelieu

Municipal deputies in 18 Moscow and St. Petersburg districts demand Putin's resignation


In eighteen municipal districts of Moscow and Saint Petersburg, deputies have signed a public demand for Russian president Vladimir Putin to step down from his post




theins.ru



Municipal deputies in 18 Moscow and St. Petersburg districts demand Putin's resignation​12 September 2022 11:39





In eighteen municipal districts of Moscow and Saint Petersburg, deputies have signed a public demand for Russian president Vladimir Putin to step down from his post.

“We, the municipal deputies of Russia, believe that the actions of its president Vladimir Putin are detrimental to Russia’s and its citizens’ future. We demand Vladimir Putin's resignation from the post of the President of the Russian Federation,” reads the demand, as published by Ksenia Thorstrom, a municipal deputy of the Semenovsky District in Saint Petersburg.

The list of signatories also includes:

· Andrei Moiseykin, Dvortsovy District (Saint Petersburg)

· Dmitry Markevich, Liteyny District (Saint Petersburg)

· Roman Volga, Kolpino (Leningrad Region)

· Vitaly Bovar, Vladimirsky District (Saint Petersburg)

· Sergey Samusev, Municipal District 15 (Saint Petersburg)

· Alexander Budberg, Moskovskaya Zastava (Saint Petersburg)

· Dmitry Baltrukov, Smolninskoye District (Saint Petersburg)

· Anna Karulicheva, Narvsky District (Saint Petersburg)

· Valery Shaposhnikov, Vladimirsky District (Saint Petersburg)

· Galina Filchenko, Tverskoy District (Moscow)

· Timofey Nikolaev, Lomonosovsky District (Moscow)

· Olga Shtatskaya, Lomonosovsky District (Moscow)

· Yulia Shcherbakova, Cheremushki (Moscow)

· Vasily Khoroshilov, Akademichesky District (Moscow)

· Margarita Sharipova, Ramenki (Moscow)

· Vladimir Volokhonsky, Municipal District 72 (Saint Petersburg)

· Olga Fattush, Gavan (Saint Petersburg)

· Ekaterina Silaeva, Severnoye Izmaylovo (Moscow)

Earlier, the Deputy Council of the Lomonosovsky District in Moscow also appealed to Putin demanding his resignation. As the deputies pointed out, “things went south” starting from Putin's second presidential term.

Meanwhile, the municipal deputies of Smolninskoye in Saint Petersburg announced their intention to submit a suggestion to the State Duma to charge Putin with high treason for starting the war in Ukraine. According to the authors, his acts fall under Article 93 of the Russian Constitution on impeachment. The procedure of impeachment in Russia implies that the president can be removed from their post if the State Duma charges them with treason or other serious crimes.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570026459133104130

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570094563225915393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570097764247261185


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570046339743981570
Yippee

Missile rain all over Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570045327649947648

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## jhungary

Hossiiee said:


> 85%? You do realise that Russia including reserves has an army of about 2 milion. They only sent around 150k troops at most. Rest of the forces are LPR, DPR, Chechens and Wagner. So what the hell are you talking about? Sure Ukraine is doing a fine job against 10% of Russian army.. But the moment the Russian federation decides to go full force this war is over. You know it, I know it, everybody know it.


Russian committed at least 400,000 ground troop at this point, this is from the original 200 BTG (240,000 troop) deployed in February 24, 2022 with another 100 BTG (~100,000) During May 2022, plus volunteer Battalion (Around 50 BTG) couple with Navy and Air Force personnel. 

Russian ground force alone only has around 850,000 reported strengths. Around 130,000 of those are conscript, 200,000 are National Guard, only the rest are fighting force. 

On the other hand, if Russian decided to go full force on this war, then Russia will be over, because it will basically open for anyone to attack, Russia have 850,000 ground force, but they also have 6.6 million square miles of land to defend, most of these troop are used fo static defence with Finland, Georgia, China and Japan.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570030173499555840

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570097764247261185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570050902328745986

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570064462719197184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570060357497982978

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## LeGenD

Bengal71 said:


> You are just arguing for the sake of it and writing things that are not needed.
> 
> They obviously have some motivation as they invaded Ukraine for the last 7 months. But it's not the same motivation as WW2 when they defended their homeland. They lost ~15% of their entire population, still didn't give up and went all the way up to Berlin. I doubt an invasion warrants the same level of motivation.
> Nevertheless an invasion still requires some motivation but it's not the same level that is shown in an existential threat such as the WW2 scenario.
> 
> The original point I was making with @PakFactor is that, the Russian dog has a lot of fight in it even after taking severe losses as they demonstrated in WW2. If the same motivation exists in Ukraine war (doubtful), the Russian dog still has a lot of fight in them even after heavy losses. It is yet to be seen how much motivation they have to win in Ukraine which will be translated to the fight they will put forth and commit to.


You are confusing lack of capability with lack of motivation. You have yet to understand the difference between USSR and Russia.

Russians have thrown everything at Ukraine short of nuclear weapons to limited effect. What more it can throw at Ukraine to make difference? Peasants armed with sticks? By the next year perhaps.

Ukraine is much better organized and motivated to fight in comparison to other countries that Russia chose to invade since the 1960s. Ukraine is actually getting better at fighting with support of NATO.

You can assume that there is much fight left in Russia but my counter is NOT in offensive capacity. Russians were unable to capture Kyiv. They were ousted from Kharkiv recently. They will loose more ground in Ukraine in coming days. Russian military losses are staggering in this front. This war will leave Russian army exhausted and broken and it will take many years to rebuild it. This legacy will haunt Russia for a long time. Much more than Afghanistan.

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## alimobin memon

The way russia retreated without fight was clearly russian ruse. The water level risen now the ukraine forces which crossed the river might be cutoff. Pretty sure russians are gonna do actual counter attack maybe in 15 to 30 days.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> On the other hand, if Russian decided to go full force on this war, then Russia will be over, because it will basically open for anyone to attack, Russia have 850,000 ground force, but they also have 6.6 million square miles of land to defend, most of these troop are used fo static defence with Finland, Georgia, China and Japan.


none of these countries will attack russia. It does not need any defence posture with any neighbour except Ukraine.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570017106690719746

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## RoadAmerica

Han Patriot said:


> Not really mate, civillan infrastructure was mostly intact as does deaths. They didn't target alot of civillan infrastructure through Syrian style carpet bombing. They used precision ammunition alot, which is to reduce destruction.
> 
> 
> You don't need nukes for total destruction. Compare Syria with Ukriane with so many civilian infrastructure intact. Russia haven't even started carpet bombing Ukriane. You know the good old bombing ala WW2? Tahts total war, not using cruise missiles to avoid civilian casualties.


Fake news


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> none of these countries will attack russia. It does not need any defence posture with any neighbour except Ukraine.


Pretty sure Ukraine thinks none of the country bordering Ukraine will attack Ukraine....

You never know, never say never.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570104967515496448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570104970321575944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570100728793894917

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570100731025276928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570100734338928640


thetutle said:


> none of these countries will attack russia. It does not need any defence posture with any neighbour except Ukraine.



Precisely what the nukes are for. Deterrence.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570106153501167616
The noose tightens around Kherson


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570106418547621888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570106542375968770

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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> The way russia retreated without fight was clearly russian ruse. The water level risen now the ukraine forces which crossed the river might be cutoff. Pretty sure russians are gonna do actual counter attack maybe in 15 to 30 days.


That's a very convincing ruse. I mean, it felt really real when they leave behind 300 + Armored Vehicle for the Ukrainian to capture, I guess that is a ruse as well.....

And yes, I am being sarcastic.......If this is a ruse, they would have withdrawn in a single direction drawing Ukrainian to the area, instead of leaving their stuff left and right, as I said, either every one of the Russian soldiers are award winning actors, or they are really being routed......


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570106987802775555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570095347963150338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570096785984454659

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570105934327734273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570085389469097984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570108799276683264


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## Viet

alimobin memon said:


> The way russia retreated without fight was clearly russian ruse. The water level risen now the ukraine forces which crossed the river might be cutoff. Pretty sure russians are gonna do actual counter attack maybe in 15 to 30 days.


Russia ruse?
It’s more like Russia cowards!
10,000 men ran away from Charkiw without a fight.
No they won’t return anytime soon. Even so with what? Will they return with bamboo sticks? They left all heavy equipment behind.


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## SalarHaqq

SIPRA said:


> Your analysis of the situation is excellent.



Thank you, please don't hesitate to share your own.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

alimobin memon said:


> The way russia retreated without fight was clearly russian ruse. The water level risen now the ukraine forces which crossed the river might be cutoff. Pretty sure russians are gonna do actual counter attack maybe in 15 to 30 days.


Hahaha and left all their equipment behind right 🙄



Bengal71 said:


> What are you blabbering about? Who is Russian cheerleader?


Obviously you.
How’s the Russian economy?



RoadAmerica said:


> Hahaha and left all their equipment behind right 🙄
> 
> 
> Obviously you.
> How’s the Russian economy?


Oh and didn’t you say the Russian dog has a lot of fight left 🥱


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## SIPRA

SalarHaqq said:


> Thank you, please don't hesitate to share your own.



I think that ultimately Russia would achieve most, if not all, of it's objectives, from this war. Tactical level ups and downs would happen, though.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Obviously you.
> How’s the Russian economy?



Russia is flush with cash.


----------



## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570108799276683264


yeah, this looks really bad, you are free if you can survive 6 months in ukraine. I bet any of these prisoners serving less than 30 years are thinking, when can we go back to our cells?

Although might be a good idea to volunteer and surrender at the first opportunity.


----------



## merzifonlu

khansaheeb said:


> Who wants to live with Nazis?


Ukrainians. They don't see Europeans as Nazis. at least for now. On the contrary, they think that they are representatives of high civilization.

Of course, we Turks do not think so. While Europeans are not exactly Nazis, they are not as civilized as Ukrainians think. But it will take time for them to realize this. This is a very long-term game. Those who are patient and those who are smart at least survive.

The Russians lost this set of the match.

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## thetutle

merzifonlu said:


> The Russians lost this set of the match.


Are you sure its not just a tactical regrouping?

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## LeGenD

alimobin memon said:


> The way russia retreated without fight was clearly russian ruse. The water level risen now the ukraine forces which crossed the river might be cutoff. Pretty sure russians are gonna do actual counter attack maybe in 15 to 30 days.


Ruse = leaving huge stockpiles of munitions and weapon systems behind? Solid ruse it was.

Rout in Kharkiv came as a shock to Russians. Putin has dismissed a Russian general over this loss.

Now here is food for thought. Ukranians continue to train new battle groups armed with new weapon systems supplied by NATO in the reserve while others are pitted against Russian forces on the front lines. This strategy has enabled Ukrainians to rotate their battle groups and mount counterattacks on Russian forces at the time of their choosing. Ukraine has devised a long-term fighting strategy in this manner.

Rout of Russian forces in Kharkiv is NOT a fluke, therefore. Ukranian strategy is solid.

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## merzifonlu

thetutle said:


> Are you sure its not just a tactical regrouping?


I am very very sure. Russians lost almost half of their active combat equipment and rest are of lesser quality. Even if they declared general mobilization, they did not have the equipment to equip the conscripts.

They are left with two options: a) Withdraw completely from Ukraine and start negotiations on reparations. b) Or raising hands and using tactical nuclear weapons. Then the Americans will attack with full force. Americans already have itchy trigger fingers!

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia is flush with cash.


🤣 I’ve already guided you to some news on YouTube that you can watch but obviously you haven’t.
Russia is NOT flush with cash, their economy is in a major recession

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## alimobin memon

LeGenD said:


> Ruse = leaving huge stockpiles of munitions and weapon systems behind? Solid ruse it was.
> 
> Rout in Kharkiv came as a shock to Russians. Putin has dismissed a Russian general over this loss.
> 
> Now here is food for thought. Ukranians continue to train new battle groups armed with new weapon systems supplied by NATO in the reserve while others are pitted against Russian forces on the front lines. This strategy has enabled Ukrainians to rotate their battle groups and mount counterattacks on Russian forces at the time of their choosing. Ukraine has devised a long-term fighting strategy in this manner.
> 
> Rout of Russian forces in Kharkiv is NOT a fluke, therefore. Ukranian strategy is solid.


I remember americans left the equipment in afghanistan claiming that it was better to abandon then transporting it back. So they disabled them and took important items off of the vehicles and other items.

These equipment that the russians have left in hurry does not necessarily mean that all of tanks are in working order maybe they have disabled the internal electronic components. In no way I will believe they are all in working condition. The way Ukrainians are capturing russian hardware and tweeting that "captured tank in good condition" no one knows what good means here so fast. It may take hours to understand if this is in complete working order.

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## RoadAmerica

alimobin memon said:


> I remember americans left the equipment in afghanistan claiming that it was better to abandon then transporting it back. So they disabled them and took important items off of the vehicles and other items.
> 
> These equipment that the russians have left in hurry does not necessarily mean that all of tanks are in working order maybe they have disabled the internal electronic components. In no way I will believe they are all in working condition. The way Ukrainians are capturing russian hardware and tweeting that "captured tank in good condition" no one knows what good means here so fast. It may take hours to understand if this is in complete working order.


The difference is Americans had plenty more at home. The Russians ….I’ll wait

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Russia is NOT flush with cash, their economy is in a major recession



Russia has immense natural resources per capita. And with China's backing, Russia's economy is in good shape.

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has immense natural resources per capita. And with China's backing, Russia's economy is in good shape.


No it’s not you moron, educate yourself for the tenth time.
Oh and chinas backing their belly road has failed many of the countries can’t even pay the interest plus China is in their own recession.
Please debate me some more you toddler

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> The SC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570097764247261185
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570050902328745986
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570064462719197184
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570060357497982978
Click to expand...

Russia liberated the water.. Just an act of terror trying to force Ukraine to negotiate. It doesnt impact the war itself.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Mista said:


> You just don't understand. Like retreating from Snake Island, Russia not sending its best troops is a goodwill gesture to Ukraine.
> 
> Putin could've easily capture Kyiv with his elite troops, but no, he cares about the lives of ordinary Ukrainian civilians. He would rather lose more equipment and see more of his troops die everyday. After all, he just reaffirmed that Russia has lost nothing. That alone just tells you that the lives of Russian troops are nothing compared to the lives of Ukrainians in Putin's eyes. That's what I call universal love.


That certainly explains why many Russian politicians want to prosecute Putin for high treason - not.


----------



## alimobin memon

RoadAmerica said:


> The difference is Americans had plenty more at home. The Russians ….I’ll wait


Russians have highest no. Of tanks in the world including reserve. Dont see them getting worried on equipment so sooner. Most the tanks seem with nominal refurbishments were transported to ukraine.

My analysis are russia has only send 2nd class equipment or 3rd class one for ground forces and plus little no. Of elite forces.

No country in world would be so unprofessional its like violation of the normality of the world. A country who has scene greatest of wars suddenly is one of the most non professional ? Isnt it too early to speculate that ?

To me both countries are fierce and brave and fighting well.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia is flush with cash.


No, Russia runs out of money and will go bankrupt. That’s economic reality. Putin money comes mostly from selling oil and gas to the west, if they west stops buying where should the money come from? China? India? That’s too little to compensate the loss.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> No, Russia runs out of money and will bankrupt.



Print money. Russia has lots of trees. Enough wood for paper.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570111343402819585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570115802791088134


----------



## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> I remember americans left the equipment in afghanistan claiming that it was better to abandon then transporting it back. So they disabled them and took important items off of the vehicles and other items.
> 
> These equipment that the russians have left in hurry does not necessarily mean that all of tanks are in working order maybe they have disabled the internal electronic components. In no way I will believe they are all in working condition. The way Ukrainians are capturing russian hardware and tweeting that "captured tank in good condition" no one knows what good means here so fast. It may take hours to understand if this is in complete working order.


I don't know how much you know about Tanks......

Tanks are in working condition even if the optics are damaged or even destroyed. In fact, Tank have very high tolerant of damage, I can take 2 direct hit from the front and the tank can still drive and fire. 

That's because tanks gun while complex, but it is a very basic design, you have a barrel, you have a beech, you have your primer, you have your round, and finally you have your trigger. It's basically works like a firearm, as long as you can load the round in, and ignite the primer, and the barrel is not obstructed, then your main gun WILL fire.

Engine is a more complex issue, it involved an engine and a gearbox, that too cannot be easily destroyed, and even if it did, you can still salvage or repair it

So basically, when you see most of the tank they capture have no external damage at all, it usually mean they are in functioning order, anything that make the tank cannot function would most likely showing the damage on the outside


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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Print money. Russia has lots of trees. Enough wood for paper.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570111343402819585
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570115802791088134


Nobody will accept worthless rubbe.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Nobody will accept worthless rubbe.





https://www.google.com/search?q=usd+to+ruble&client=firefox-b-d&ei=th4iY47rK8iKptQPg-SeuAE&ved=0ahUKEwiOnp6J9pT6AhVIhYkEHQOyBxcQ4dUDCA0&uact=5&oq=usd+to+ruble&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIQCAAQsQMQgwEQkQIQRhCCAjIFCAAQkQIyBQgAEJECMgUIABCRAjIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDoKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzoHCAAQsAMQQzoGCAAQChBDOgcIABCABBAKOggIABAeEBYQCjoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwFKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQaFiaBWCZBmgBcAF4AIABeIgBkAOSAQMzLjGYAQCgAQHIAQrAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


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## jhungary

RoadAmerica said:


> The difference is Americans had plenty more at home. The Russians ….I’ll wait


Actually, we don't leave our tank, we leave our Toyota Pickup and Humvee, those are cheap like 10 to 20 grand each and it would be cheaper to buy new than ship it out with C-17 which each trip will cost around $50,000

Tank and APC on the other hand cost millions of dollars, you never leave those stuff behind........

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## alimobin memon

jhungary said:


> I don't know how much you know about Tanks......
> 
> Tanks are in working condition even if the optics are damaged or even destroyed. In fact, Tank have very high tolerant of damage, I can take 2 direct hit from the front and the tank can still drive and fire.
> 
> That's because tanks gun while complex, but it is a very basic design, you have a barrel, you have a beech, you have your primer, you have your round, and finally you have your trigger. It's basically works like a firearm, as long as you can load the round in, and ignite the primer, and the barrel is not obstructed, then your main gun WILL fire.
> 
> Engine is a more complex issue, it involved an engine and a gearbox, that too cannot be easily destroyed, and even if it did, you can still salvage or repair it
> 
> So basically, when you see most of the tank they capture have no external damage at all, it usually mean they are in functioning order, anything that make the tank cannot function would most likely showing the damage on the outside


There are grenade like devices that melt thickest of metal and point. Used since ww2 to quickly melt main parts of artillery and tank barrels component. To make them quickly disabled with heavy damage to loading mechanism or barrel itself.



jhungary said:


> Actually, we don't leave our tank, we leave our Toyota Pickup and Humvee, those are cheap like 10 to 20 grand each and it would be cheaper to buy new than ship it out with C-17 which each trip will cost around $50,000
> 
> Tank and APC on the other hand cost millions of dollars, you never leave those stuff behind........


They left helis didnt they ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570110125318508544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570110523026591744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570117110768050181


----------



## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> There are grenade like devices that melt thickest of metal and point. Used since ww2 to quickly melt main parts of artillery and tank barrels component. To make them quickly disabled with heavy damage to loading mechanism or barrel itself.



You meant Thermite?

You will know if a thermite was used to burn the barrel, you will see holes on the side of the barrel.....



alimobin memon said:


> They left helis didnt they ?


No, those were aide, we gave to Afghan, those are old chopper by the way, like nearly 40 years old, we did not leave any of ours helicopter behind.


----------



## Dazzler

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570110125318508544
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570110523026591744
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570117110768050181



T-64. Notice the road wheels.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Dazzler said:


> T-64. Notice the road wheels.



Yes that is correct. First pic is T-64. Second pic is T-72.

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## alimobin memon

jhungary said:


> You meant Thermite?
> 
> You will know if a thermite was used to burn the barrel, you will see holes on the side of the barrel.....
> 
> 
> No, those were aide, we gave to Afghan, those are old chopper by the way, like nearly 40 years old, we did not leave any of ours helicopter behind.











Photos: Tanks, helicopters, artillery: See what the U.S. left behind in Afghanistan


U.S. troops exiting Afghanistan left behind a vast amount of military gear and equipment that have made the Taliban better armed than ever.




www.latimes.com





La times news same in bbc and reuters news.

Expensive items were left but disabled. 

Yes thermite. Ukraines wont tell in there tweets russia left disabled equipment that would mean ukraine captured equipment that is not combat ready at the moment.


----------



## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> Photos: Tanks, helicopters, artillery: See what the U.S. left behind in Afghanistan
> 
> 
> U.S. troops exiting Afghanistan left behind a vast amount of military gear and equipment that have made the Taliban better armed than ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> La times news same in bbc and reuters news.
> 
> Expensive items were left but disabled.
> 
> Yes thermite. Ukraines wont tell in there tweets russia left disabled equipment that would mean ukraine captured equipment that is not combat ready at the moment.


Again, those chopper (MD-500 and UH-60) we gave as an aide to Ukraine since 2017, it was Afghan MD-500 and Blackhawk, we can't take them when Kabul fall, cause it wasn't ours. 

Probably the most expensive item on that list is 1000 pair of GPNVG 18 Night Vision Goggle, retail at around 45000 each. 

Ukraine won't tell you thermite was used, but you can literally see them......Thermite burn at 2300 degree, if they were use, the barrel and the Shrout (where the thermite sat on) will be burn out and melted. And the Barrel will bend and discolorised because of the heat if they were used. 

Which mean you will be able to see if thermite was used to spike a tank. And if a tank appears cosmetically good, which usually mean it is undamaged.

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## LeGenD

alimobin memon said:


> I remember americans left the equipment in afghanistan claiming that it was better to abandon then transporting it back. So they disabled them and took important items off of the vehicles and other items.
> 
> These equipment that the russians have left in hurry does not necessarily mean that all of tanks are in working order maybe they have disabled the internal electronic components. In no way I will believe they are all in working condition. The way Ukrainians are capturing russian hardware and tweeting that "captured tank in good condition" no one knows what good means here so fast. It may take hours to understand if this is in complete working order.


Afghanistan is landlocked and Americans had to depend on Pakistani transportation system to move supplies to and from Afghanistan in large part. Biden administration chose to withdraw NATO forces from Afghanistan in haphazard manner, however. I am not sure what Joe Biden was thinking but I recall then Pakistani PM Imran Khan being pissed at him for mishandling situation in Afghanistan. Biden was ridiculed in his own country for his mishandling of the situation in Afghanistan _but_ what if his call was *intentional*? Now Pakistani troops and Taliban types are fighting each other on the border. UK and USA are known to leave fault-lines in regions of choice. Americans are not done with Afghanistan in fact; recent UAV strike in Kabul is but a reminder. 

Americans handled Iraq in a much better way on the other hand. They pulled their troops from Iraq after stabilizing it and handing over its keys to the leader of their choice in 2011. The withdrawal process was peaceful and without incident. This was under Obama administration.

Russian forces have direct access to Ukraine and their forces were routed from Kharkiv in a battle. Russian troops left this region in a hurry to avoid capture.

The war is ongoing, however. Let us see.

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## MeFishToo

alimobin memon said:


> Russians have highest no. Of tanks in the world including reserve. Dont see them getting worried on equipment so sooner. Most the tanks seem with nominal refurbishments were transported to ukraine.
> 
> My analysis are russia has only send 2nd class equipment or 3rd class one for ground forces and plus little no. Of elite forces.
> 
> No country in world would be so unprofessional its like violation of the normality of the world. A country who has scene greatest of wars suddenly is one of the most non professional ? Isnt it too early to speculate that ?
> 
> To me both countries are fierce and brave and fighting well.


Would a professionel army send its 2nd and 3rd class forces and equipment in an attempt to invade a country the size of Ukraine?

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## Mista

jhungary said:


> That's a very convincing ruse. I mean, it felt really real when they leave behind 300 + Armored Vehicle for the Ukrainian to capture, I guess that is a ruse as well.....





Viet said:


> Russia ruse?
> It’s more like Russia cowards!
> 10,000 men ran away from Charkiw without a fight.
> No they won’t return anytime soon. Even so with what? Will they return with bamboo sticks? They left all heavy equipment behind.



Yes it's a well thought out convincing ruse. After all to catch a fish, you need a very good bait.

Just that to bait the fish, Putin decided to throw the fishing rod into the pond as well.

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## alimobin memon

jhungary said:


> Again, those chopper (MD-500 and UH-60) we gave as an aide to Ukraine since 2017, it was Afghan MD-500 and Blackhawk, we can't take them when Kabul fall, cause it wasn't ours.
> 
> Probably the most expensive item on that list is 1000 pair of GPNVG 18 Night Vision Goggle, retail at around 45000 each.
> 
> Ukraine won't tell you thermite was used, but you can literally see them......Thermite burn at 2300 degree, if they were use, the barrel and the Shrout (where the thermite sat on) will be burn out and melted. And the Barrel will bend and discolorised because of the heat if they were used.
> 
> Which mean you will be able to see if thermite was used to spike a tank. And if a tank appears cosmetically good, which usually mean it is undamaged.





jhungary said:


> Again, those chopper (MD-500 and UH-60) we gave as an aide to Ukraine since 2017, it was Afghan MD-500 and Blackhawk, we can't take them when Kabul fall, cause it wasn't ours.
> 
> Probably the most expensive item on that list is 1000 pair of GPNVG 18 Night Vision Goggle, retail at around 45000 each.
> 
> Ukraine won't tell you thermite was used, but you can literally see them......Thermite burn at 2300 degree, if they were use, the barrel and the Shrout (where the thermite sat on) will be burn out and melted. And the Barrel will bend and discolorised because of the heat if they were used.
> 
> Which mean you will be able to see if thermite was used to spike a tank. And if a tank appears cosmetically good, which usually mean it is undamaged.


Very informative discussion with you. Ill agree to most of what you say. Thanks



LeGenD said:


> Afghanistan is landlocked and Americans had to depend on Pakistani transportation system to move supplies to and from Afghanistan in large part. Biden administration chose to withdraw from Afghanistan in haphazard manner as well. I am not sure what Joe Biden was thinking but I recall then Pakistani PM Imran Khan being pissed at him for mishandling situation in Afghanistan. Biden was ridiculed in his own country for his mishandling of the situation in Afghanistan _but_ what if his call was *intentional*? Now Pakistani troops and Taliban types are fighting each other on the border. UK and USA are known to leave fault-lines in regions of choice. Americans are not done with Afghanistan in fact; UAV strike in Kabul is but a reminder.
> 
> Americans handled Iraq in a much better way on the other hand. They pulled their troops from Iraq after stabilizing it and handing over its keys to the leader of their choice in 2011. The withdrawal process was peaceful and without incident. This was under Obama administration.
> 
> Russian forces have direct access to Ukraine and their forces were routed from Kharkiv in a battle. Russian troops left this region in a hurry to avoid capture.
> 
> The war is ongoing, however. Let us see.


Thanks for informative post. Yes its on going lets see.



MeFishToo said:


> Would a professionel army send its 2nd and 3rd class forces and equipment in an attempt to invade a country the size of Ukraine?


Problem is russia is just keeping ukraine in red zone busy in conflict. I believe so.

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## MeFishToo

Is that a Gepard firing at 0.06 and 0.18?


----------



## PakFactor

Han Patriot said:


> Dude do you realise Putin upping the intensity everytime?
> 
> 
> Yup Kiev is still standing. Russia could have easily levelled Kiev mate. You coukld level a village with a tank mate.



He's not upping any intensity because he has nothing left. You do realize the sanctions crippled Russia's defense manufacturing. Corruption and nepotism have left the Russian Armed Forces hollow, and they are fighting with equipment dating back to the '70s and 1980s on a 21st Century battlefield. Their logistics are practically non-existent, and nowhere have they stopped the inflow of weapons from the Western Ukrainian border in the last couple of months.

I suggest you read the book On War by Carl Van Clausewitz on what total war is and how conflict should be. I fear the Chinese if they clash with Russian thinking, any more delay on taking Taiwan, you will not be able to touch it; consider Ukraine a test bed for what NATO & Co. can do and will do.

The worst part about Russia & China's last 20 years is that you failed to bleed the West in the conflict hot zones in Africa and the Middle East. Just as the West called certain groups friends and armed them, you could have played the same playbook.

China thought of a peaceful rise with no war; there was no such thing. You have a competent army if the nation is at war.

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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Russia liberated the water.. Just an act of terror trying to force Ukraine to negotiate. It doesnt impact the war itself.


Check this..it seems this act/attack has a very big impact on the war..







And this too..


----------



## ZeGerman

thetutle said:


> none of these countries will attack russia. It does not need any defence posture with any neighbour except Ukraine.


If i was georgia i would have some territorial boundaries to settle. 

Japan might reclaim an island as well. 

And forever friend China cannot be trusted….at all

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## aziqbal

Russians are getting hammered 

remember Ukraine was the brains of the Soviet Union so they know a thing or two 

they also know how to fight the Russians 

Russia is losing this badly and they have way too much material loss 

they are very very sloppy and very ill disciplined

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## MeFishToo

alimobin memon said:


> Problem is russia is just keeping ukraine in red zone busy in conflict. I believe so.


I think Russia had every intention to bring Ukraine into submission. They have deployed 7, 76, 98 and 106 airborne division, 40, 61, 155, 336 and 810 naval infantry brigade, atleast a handfull of special forces brigades and god knows how many battalion tactical groups with mostly empty infantry fighting vehicles. Russia did its best with its contract army.

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## Reashot Xigwin

ZeGerman said:


> If i was georgia i would have some territorial boundaries to settle.
> 
> Japan might reclaim an island as well.
> 
> And forever friend China cannot be trusted….at all


China to Russia before Russian invasion of Ukraine: 

"Our friendship has no limit."

After the invasion: 

"You're on your own b**ch."






China's Huawei scales back Russia operations to avoid US sanctions - Business & Human Rights Resource Centre







www.business-humanrights.org





LOL imagine China not supplying Russia with its malware & backdoor ridden devices. With friend like China who needs Enemy.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570113870093492225

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> Check this..it seems this act/attack has a very big impact on the war..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this too..


It has zero impact of the fate of the russians in Kherson. They are forced to retreat. Its just a matter of time. No matter how “military summary” is trying to spin the “special operation”, the russian forces are practically encircled in Kherson.
And Weeb Union has basically been parotting russian propaganda since day one. Im sure he doesnt know anything.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Russia finally hits the bottom of the barrel and still managed to found out that there is another bottom.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570087287643414528


----------



## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia finally hits the bottom of the barrel and still managed to found out that there is another bottom.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570087287643414528


Russia is waging colonial war like its the 17th century, while hiding under a nuclear umbrella.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570137029349883904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570138425843408896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570130067480801281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570130085017001985

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570103129798225920

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## Reashot Xigwin

Oh look a russian Torture Chamber. Nothing out of the ordinary here for the Russian at least.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569819491009269763


MeFishToo said:


> Russia is waging colonial war like its the 17th century, while hiding under a nuclear umbrella.


Russia is nothing without their nukes. If they want to send cannon fodders to die let them. I just hope the war doesn't end soon until Ukraine kill at least a million of them. Violence is the only language the russian knows.

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## Ali_Baba

When Ukraine retakes Kherson - will Russia sue for a ceasefire and "talks" as a prelude to try and stabilise her front and re-organise before relaunching another offensive?

Russia needs to buy time right now - maybe "peace talks are around the corner ?"

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570121065325625344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570121070664900609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570107349683081218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570140779137601537


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570148948538699777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570148950912507911

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570148953009852416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570146428231749632

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570152367915692033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570152375238950912

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570151100602544131
Contract awarded today to replenish more than 1,800 Javelin missiles sent to Ukraine

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570099815585054724


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570157461973401600

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570111644893585409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570107996835057664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570118334418456576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570122718527340546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570111269046460417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570112192984354818


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570110369070194690

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570155481766989825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570155483683594244

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570135686451236870

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570135689219678208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570121384147165184

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## Ali_Baba

According to a BBC report, Ukrainian military officials have said that “they have captured enough working weapons from Russia recently to replace all their losses to date”.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> According to a BBC report, Ukrainian military officials have said that “they have captured enough working weapons from Russia recently to replace all their losses to date”.



Doubt. I have not seen them use a single T-72B3 so far. They also cannot recover any tank that breaks down on the field because all their repair facilities got missiled.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570140872121131009


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570164866614173700


----------



## Broccoli

PakFactor said:


> I know I’m responding to the other poster saying Russia didn’t go all out, hence my response, who goes to war half-hearted?





Han Patriot said:


> Dude do you realise Putin upping the intensity everytime?
> 
> 
> Yup Kiev is still standing. Russia could have easily levelled Kiev mate. You coukld level a village with a tank mate.



Ukraine still has their S-300's, BUK's, and probably NASAMS what can all reach altitude of where Russian strategic bombers fly. Wouldn't be good look for Russia if their bombers started dropping from skies.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Broccoli said:


> Ukraine still has their S-300's, BUK's, and probably NASAMS what can all reach altitude of where Russian strategic bombers fly. Wouldn't be good look for Russia if their bombers started dropping from skies.



None of them can counter a 3,000 km range missile. And NASAM won't be available until 2024, 2 years from now. Their radars would also have a hard time locking on Kh-101 which has very small RCS.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/xcbmsv

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## Broccoli

I've noticed lack on fighting footage coming from Russians. Russians are only capable of attacking civilian targets because second rate military can't win on battlefield and is on panick mode.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Broccoli said:


> I've noticed lack on fighting footage coming from Russians. Russians are only capable of attacking civilian targets because second rate military can't win on battlefield and is on panick mode.



Russians don't need to fight Ukrainians in Ukraine. Just lob missiles and destroy critical civilian infrastructure. Force millions of Ukrainians to flee to the West. Depopulate Ukraine. Once Ukraine's population falls below 20 million, then invade Kharkov with a 200 grand grand army.


----------



## Vergennes

Broccoli said:


> I've noticed lack on fighting footage coming from Russians. Russians are only capable of attacking civilian targets because second rate military can't win on battlefield and is on panick mode.



They are also recycling lot of old footages,posting them again and again 

or posting this kind of BS


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570072612226895875

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570025552286810115
/


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570165921703989249

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## Wood




----------



## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570035415100399619

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570186857572601856

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570188892514488325
Another huge day of Russian losses, 82.

That’s now over 6,000 for the war

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570191725783838720

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Putin recruits half a million criminals to join the army


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570185654923067395

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570181485629706241


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Putin recruits half a million criminals to join the army
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570185654923067395
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570181485629706241


Why would he do that? I thought it was just Wagner and other turds fighting?
You change your story every page, educate yourself

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Why would he do that? I thought it was just Wagner and other turds fighting?
> You change your story every page, educate yourself



The criminals are recruited into Wagner which fights alongside rebels and the Chechen shock troops. The criminals are brutal and execute captured Ukrainian POWs.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The criminals are recruited into Wagner which fights alongside rebels and the Chechen shock troops. The criminals are brutal and execute captured Ukrainian POWs.


You’re joke. You know Russia imports machinery, planes, tech, pharmaceuticals on and on. How will they replace all?
Let me guess China 🤣

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## jhungary

This is what Ukrainian are fighting for.

The moment a son liberated his mother hometown.






Heartwarming footage of a Ukrainian mother tearfully embracing her son has gone viral after he returned home to help liberate her village.

Kozacha Lopan, a village in the north-east Kharkiv region, was captured by the Russians in the early days of the war.

Yet in emotional scenes captured earlier today, Vyacheslav Zadorenko, mayor of the nearby Derhachi district, entered the village for the first time in six months after he and other members of the Ukrainian forces seized back control.

As he exits a vehicle, his mother can be heard screaming with joy and rushes towards him, smothering her son with hugs and kisses as she welcomes him home.

‘I knew you’d come home, one of my flowers bloomed,’ she said as she greeted her son.

‘I saved all your things, but the house is booby-trapped.

‘I cooked borscht, do you want some? I knew you’d free me!’

‘I knew you’d come home, one of my flowers bloomed,’ she said as she greeted her son.

‘I saved all your things, but the house is booby-trapped.

‘I cooked borscht, do you want some? I knew you’d free me!’

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> You’re joke. You know Russia imports machinery, planes, tech, pharmaceuticals on and on. How will they replace all?
> Let me guess China 🤣



China has biggest industrial base in the world. When Admiral Yamamoto went to war with the US in 1941 he was terrified of the US's industrial might, which doomed Japan.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China has biggest industrial base in the world. When Admiral Yamamoto went to war with the US in 1941 he was terrified of the US's industrial might, which doomed Japan.


Hahahaha how’s I know that’s what you’d say. 
Funny you didn’t debate that China is in a recession and unable to get interest from their Silk Road buddies. 
Evergrande is busy you know the most indebted company in the world where are they from again?
Just the tip of the iceberg sonny

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Hahahaha how’s I know that’s what you’d say.
> Funny you didn’t debate that China is in a recession and unable to get interest from their Silk Road buddies.
> Evergrande is busy you know the most indebted company in the world where are they from again?
> Just the tip of the iceberg sonny



The US has bigger problem than China. The US has demographic decline.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, SEPTEMBER 13​Sep 13, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Katherine Lawlor, George Barros, and Frederick W. Kagan
September 13, 10:15 pm ET *​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The Kremlin acknowledged its defeat in Kharkiv Oblast, the first time Moscow has openly recognized a defeat since the start of the February 2022 invasion of Ukraine. *Kremlin officials and state media propagandists are extensively discussing the reasons for the Russian defeat in Kharkiv Oblast, a marked change from their previous pattern of reporting on exaggerated or fabricated Russian successes with limited detail.[1] The Kremlin never admitted that Russia was defeated around Kyiv or, later, at Snake Island, framing the retreat from Kyiv as a decision to prioritize the “liberation” of Donbas and the withdrawal from Snake Island as a “gesture of goodwill.”[2] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) originally offered a similar explanation for the Russian failure in Kharkiv, claiming that Russian forces were withdrawing troops from Kharkiv Oblast to regroup, but this false narrative faced quick and loud criticism online.[3] The Kremlin’s acknowledgment of the defeat is part of an effort to mitigate and deflect criticism for such a devastating failure away from Russian President Vladimir Putin and onto the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and the uniformed military command.
*Kremlin sources are now working to clear Putin of any responsibility for the defeat, instead blaming the loss of almost all of occupied Kharkiv Oblast on underinformed military advisors within Putin’s circle.[4]* One member of the Kremlin’s Council for Interethnic Relations, Bogdan Bezpalko, even stated that military officials who had failed to see the concentration of Ukrainian troops and equipment and disregarded Telegram channels that warned of the imminent Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kharkiv Oblast should have their heads ”lying on Putin’s desk.”[5] ISW has previously reported that the Kremlin delayed Putin‘s meeting with Russian defense officials immediately after the withdrawal of troops from around Kharkiv, increasing the appearance of a rift between the Kremlin and the Russian MoD.[6] The Kremlin’s admission of defeat in Kharkiv shows that Putin is willing and able to recognize and even accept a Russian defeat at least in some circumstances and focus on deflecting blame from himself.
*Several members of the Russian State Duma expressed concern about the dire situation on the frontlines in Ukraine during the Duma’s first plenary meeting of its autumn session on September 13.* Leader of the Russian Communist Party Gennady Zyuganov stated that Russia needs to announce full mobilization because the Russian “special military operation” is a war.[7] Zyuganov said that one can end a “special military operation” at any time, but that a war can end only in victory or defeat, and “we have no right to lose” this war. Leader of the “Fair Russia—For Truth” Party Sergey Mironov called for social “mobilization,” in which regular Russians would pay attention more to the war in Ukraine, rather than for full military mobilization. Leader of the Russian Liberal Democratic Party Leonid Slutsky also noted that Russia will continue to fight in the geopolitical “scrum” with the West. All three MPs had publicly advocated for Putin to recognize the independence of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) before the February invasion and were instrumental in setting information conditions for the invasion itself.[8] The MPs also discussed a December date for the next hearing on a bill that will simplify the delivery of the semiannual conscription notices.[9] The bill, which is likely to pass, will allow Russian military recruitment centers to send out conscription notices via mail instead of presenting them in person and will oblige men who have not received a notice in the mail to show up at the local recruitment center anyway.[10]
*The Kremlin is likely seeking to use the defeat in Kharkiv to facilitate crypto mobilization efforts.* Zyuganov’s, Mironov’s, and Slutsky’s statements could be aimed at raising concern and patriotism among Russians to encourage them to get more involved in the war. The bill could further facilitate the ongoing crypto mobilization campaign, which aims to promote recruitment into contract service via deception, coercion, or promised financial rewards. Recruitment centers throughout Russia have been delivering unofficial summonses that look like conscription notices via mail and phone calls, but many men are aware that Russian law requires military recruitment centers to issue conscription notices in person.[11] Russian men who have responded to the unofficial summonses have recounted recruiters attempting to persuade or pressure them into signing a military contract. The bill legalizing mailed conscription notices will facilitate this dishonest practice. Both the bill and MPs’ statements may evoke fear of general mobilization among men, which could incentivize some to sign military contracts and receive financial bonuses for volunteering, as opposed to being conscripted and forced to serve without such compensation.
*Nothing in the Duma bill suggests that Putin is preparing to order general mobilization, and it is far from clear that he could do so quickly. *Large-scale conscription would very likely overwhelm the Russian MoD’s ability to induct, train, and equip new soldiers, particularly since the Russian training base appears to be strained in preparing the limited numbers of volunteer battalions currently being fielded. Russia would likely first have to expand its training base significantly, a time-consuming process, and then find and prepare for combat sufficient equipment to kit out large numbers of new units before it could even begin to handle a large influx of new conscripts. Widely-reported Russian materiel shortages suggest deep failures in the Russian military industry that would make generating the necessary equipment, ammunition, and supplies for a large conscript army very difficult. ISW has not identified any indicators that preparations for such activities have been ordered or are underway.
*The Kremlin has adopted narratives that echo longstanding milblogger demands and complaints, suggesting that Putin seeks to appease and win back the critical milblogger community rather than censor it. *Russian milbloggers have long complained about the Russian MoD and the military high command, and now the Kremlin state media is openly expressing dissatisfaction with the progress of the war and the lack of situational awareness of events on the ground.[12] Milbloggers are advertising Telegram channels covering frontline developments 24/7 and urging readers to subscribe if they “believe” in Putin.[13] Kremlin-controlled and Kremlin-influenced media are now openly calling for an intensive missile campaign against Ukrainian civilian critical infrastructure and transit routes, an idea with broad support among many milbloggers.[14] These new calls are a stark departure from the Kremlin‘s previous line claiming that Russian forces did not target civilian infrastructure, and this new narrative is earning the Kremlin public support among milbloggers. Slutsky’s statement at the Duma meeting pointing to the disinterest of most Russian civilians in the war echoes frequent milblogger complaints about the harmful side effects of conducting a limited war.[15]
*Russia’s defeat in Kharkiv Oblast is causing panic among Russians in occupied Ukrainian territories, servicemen, and milbloggers. *The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence (GUR) reported that Russian authorities in Crimea urged their families to flee to Russia, while employees of the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) are selling their homes on the peninsula and are urgently evacuating their families due to Ukrainian counter-offensives.[16] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that forcibly mobilized proxy units are suffering low morale and psychological problems.[17] Russian milbloggers are increasingly worrying about Ukrainian counter-offensives in different areas along the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblasts frontline, and preemptively identifying vulnerable Russian positions.[18]
*Russia’s military failures in Ukraine are likely continuing to weaken Russia’s leverage in the former Soviet Union*. Armenia accused Azerbaijan of violating a Russian-brokered ceasefire and attacking Armenian forces along the Azerbaijan-Armenian border on September 13.[19] Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan held a call with Russian President Vladimir Putin and convened a meeting of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) member states later in the day but did not invoke the CSTO’s collective security agreement, according to government readouts of both meetings.[20] The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs did not comment on whether the Kremlin would fulfill its CSTO obligations to Armenia if Azerbaijan continued to press its attack.[21] Russia’s hedging approach may damage Russia’s relationship with Armenia and with other CSTO member states, particularly If Russia cannot provide military or peacekeeping support.
The CSTO is a Russia-created and Russia-dominated intergovernmental military alliance that the Kremlin claims is about collective security, but typically uses to justify or further its hybrid war aims. The degraded Russian military likely does not have sufficient forces to enforce a ceasefire or to deploy additional peacekeepers to the area after six months of devastating war in Ukraine. ISW reported on March 13 that Russia pulled 800 personnel from Russia’s base in Armenia and elements of its Nagorno-Karabakh “peacekeeping deployment” to replenish early losses in Ukraine.[22] ISW has observed no redeployments to Nagorno-Karabakh or Russia’s base in Armenia since then.
*Key Takeaways*

*The Kremlin has recognized its defeat in Kharkiv Oblast, the first defeat Russia has acknowledged in this war. The Kremlin is deflecting blame from Russian President Vladimir Putin and attributing it instead to his military advisors.*
*The Kremlin is likely seeking to use the defeat in Kharkiv to facilitate crypto mobilization efforts by intensifying patriotic rhetoric and discussions about fuller mobilization while revisiting a Russian State Duma bill allowing the military to send call-ups for the regular semiannual conscription by mail. Nothing in the Duma bill suggests that Putin is preparing to order general mobilization, and it is far from clear that he could do so quickly in any case.*
*The successful Ukrainian counter-offensive around Kharkiv Oblast is prompting Russian servicemen, occupation authorities, and milbloggers to panic.*
*Russia’s military failures in Ukraine are likely continuing to weaken Russia’s leverage in the former Soviet Union as Russia appears unwilling to enforce a violated ceasefire it brokered between Armenia and Azerbaijan or to allow Armenia to invoke provisions of the Russia-dominated Collective Security Treaty Organization in its defense.*
*Ukrainian troops likely continued ground attacks along the Lyman-Yampil-Bilohorivka line in northern Donetsk Oblast and may be conducting limited ground attacks across the Oskil River in Kharkiv Oblast.*
*Russian and Ukrainian sources indicated that Ukrainian forces are continuing ground maneuvers in three areas of Kherson Oblast as part of the ongoing southern counter-offensive.*
*Russian troops made incremental gains south of Bakhmut and continued ground attacks throughout Donetsk Oblast.*
*Ukrainian forces provided the first visual evidence of Russian forces using an Iranian-made drone in Ukraine on September 13.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counter-offensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counter-offensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Vovchansk-Kupyansk-Izyum-Lyman Line)*
Ukrainian forces continued to consolidate gains in eastern Kharkiv Oblast on September 13 and are likely conducting ground attacks in northern Donetsk Oblast. Ukrainian forces likely hope to take advantage of recent gains in Sviatohirsk (just south of the Kharkiv-Donetsk Oblast border 20km northwest of Slovyansk) to move east on Russian positions in Lyman, where Russian sources claim Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) and BARS Special Combat Reserve forces are repelling Ukrainian attacks.[23] Russian sources also stated that Ukrainian forces are fighting around Bilohorivka (30km east of Lyman) in an attempt to pressure Russian defenses in western Luhansk Oblast and in the Lysychansk-Severodonetsk area.[24]
Ukrainian forces may be threatening Russian positions along the Oskil River, which Russian mibloggers have identified as the new frontline.[25] A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian troops forded the Oskil River at Borova (about 30km northeast of Izyum and near the Kharkiv-Luhansk Oblast border), indicating that Ukrainian forces are continuing localized ground assaults to threaten Russian positions behind the Oskil River.[26] Russian troops are unlikely to be strong enough to prevent further Ukrainian advances along the entire Oskil River because they do not appear to be receiving reinforcements, and Ukrainian troops will likely be able to exploit this weakness to resume the counter-offensive across the Oskil if they choose.



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Ukrainian forces continued counter-offensive operations in Kherson Oblast on September 13. Ukrainian and Russian sources indicated that Ukrainian forces conducted ground attacks in three main areas along the Kherson-Mykolaiv frontline; northern Kherson Oblast just south of the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border; western Kherson Oblast along the Inhulets River; and northwest of Kherson City. A Russian source reported that Ukrainian troops are consolidating positions in Olhyne (5km south of the Dnipropetrovsk-Kherson Oblast border) and preparing for attacks along the Arkhanhelske line toward Novopetrivka (5km south of Olhyne).[27]
Russian sources additionally discussed Ukrainian ground maneuvers in western Kherson Oblast near the Inhulets River, with multiple sources claiming that Ukrainian troops launched attacks on Davydiv Brid.[28] A Russian source claimed that Ukrainian troops are regrouping near Sukhyi Stavok (10km southwest of Davydiv Brid) in order to attack toward Bruskynske, which lies along the T2207 highway that is supporting Russian positions in Davydiv Brid.[29] Ukrainian military officials also reported that Russian troops attempted to attack toward Bezimenne, just south of Sukhyi Stavok, indicating that fighting is occurring within the Sukhyi Stavok pocket.[30]
Ukrainian and Russian sources both discussed fighting northwest of Kherson City in the Ternovi Pody area. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command stated that Russian troops attempted to attack along the Ternovi Pody-Lyubomirivka line, about 30km northwest of Kherson City.[31] Russian milbloggers claimed that fighting is ongoing near Ternovi Pody as Ukrainian troops attempt to move south toward Chornobaivka and the Kherson City area.[32] Advisor to the Ukrainian President’s Office, Oleksii Arestovych, claimed that Ukrainian troops took control of Oleksandrivka, 33km northwest of Kherson City.[33]
Ukrainian forces are additionally continuing an operational-level interdiction campaign to target Russian military, logistical, and transportation assets in southern Ukraine to support ground maneuvers along the Kherson-Mykolaiv frontline. The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Ukrainian aviation conducted 11 strikes against concentrations of Russian manpower and equipment throughout the day on September 13.[34] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command stated that Ukrainian troops continued fire missions against Russian military and logistics assets throughout Kherson Oblast.[35] Social media footage from within Kherson City indicates that Ukrainian troops struck the suburbs of Kherson City on September 13 as part of the wider interdiction campaign.[36]
The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) did not comment on Ukrainian actions in Kherson Oblast at all on September 13, despite an apparent uptick in Russian milblogger coverage of the offensive compared to the last few days.[37]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort–Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on September 13 and claimed to have made marginal gains around Bakhmut. Russian milbloggers claimed that Wagner Group fighters took control of Mykhailivka Druha, a small settlement along the T0513 highway 10km southwest of Bakhmut.[38] Russian news outlet _Izvestia _claimed that Russian troops reached the suburbs of Bakhmut and occupied positions in the industrial zone on Bakhmut’s eastern outskirts.[39] Russian troops also continued localized ground attacks north and northwest of the Donetsk City area and conducted routine shelling along the Bakhmut and Avdiivka-Donetsk City frontlines.[40]
Russian sources are increasingly voicing concern that Ukrainian troops are pulling forces southwest of Donetsk City and near the eastern Zaporizhia Oblast frontline. A member of Zaporizhia’s occupation administration, Vladimir Rogov, claimed that the accumulation of Ukrainian forces in the Zaporizhia direction is “colossal” and unprecedented.[41] Russian milbloggers further claimed that Ukrainian troops are amassing near Vuhledar (45km southwest of Donetsk City), where they stated fighting is ongoing.[42] ISW cannot independently confirm if Ukrainian forces are indeed in this area, but the Russian milblogger discourse about the area southwest of Donetsk City indicates a pervasive sense of nervousness over perceived Russian vulnerabilities in Donbas and southern Ukraine.



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground assaults in western Zaporizhia Oblast on September 13 and continued routine shelling along the line of contact in Zaporizhia, Mykolaiv, and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts.[43] A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian troops are preparing to attack from Orikhiv in the direction of Tokmak, indicating continued concern in the Russian information space regarding attempted Ukrainian advances all along the southern axis.[44]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Ukrainian forces provided the first visual evidence of Russian forces using an Iranian-made drone in Ukraine on September 13. Ukrainian forces either shot down or recovered fragments of an Iranian-made Russian drone in Kupyansk, Kharkiv Oblast. A Ukrainian servicemember shared Twitter imagery of a drone fragment labeled “M412 Geran-2," which may be the Russian name for Iran’s Shahed-136 kamikaze drone.[45] The Shahed-136 is a single-use drone that can actively search for targets after launch, rather than following a pre-programmed path to its target.
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
The Kremlin had demonstrably intended to annex occupied Kharkiv Oblast prior to its liberation by Ukrainian forces in early September. The Ukrainian head of Derhachi Hromada, Vyacheslav Zaporenko, reported on September 13 that Russian forces had connected the village of Kozacha Lopan, Kharkiv Oblast to the Russian energy grid during the occupation.[46] Kozacha Lopan lies 10km from the Russian border and was one of the first towns Russian forces seized in late February. Connecting occupied Ukrainian territory to the Russian energy grid is an evident step toward complete economic and administrative integration of occupied and annexed Ukrainian territory into the Russian Federation. Ukraine’s counter-offensive in Kharkiv and southern Ukraine has likely forced the indefinite delay of Russian annexation plans.
Ukrainian partisans continued their attacks on Russian occupation officials on September 12. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Ukrainian partisans conducted an improvised explosive device (IED) attack on September 12 targeting the Russian-appointed rector of Kherson State University, Tetyana Tomilina, at her apartment.[47] The attack reportedly killed a Chechen bodyguard and led to Tomilina’s hospitalization. The Ukrainian Resistance Center emphasized that Tomilina “organized the illegal collection of personal data of students of the occupation pseudo-university" and was “responsible for the Russification of the region and propaganda.” Partisans also reportedly attacked a Russian patrol in Mariupol with explosives as the patrol tried to erase an “Ї” symbol that was painted on a building. The attack injured three Russian occupation personnel.[48] Ї, a letter found in the Ukrainian but not Russian alphabet, has become a Ukrainian resistance symbol since the invasion began.
*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update.*

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570213744160145409

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## khansaheeb

alimobin memon said:


> Russians have highest no. Of tanks in the world including reserve. Dont see them getting worried on equipment so sooner. Most the tanks seem with nominal refurbishments were transported to ukraine.
> 
> My analysis are russia has only send 2nd class equipment or 3rd class one for ground forces and plus little no. Of elite forces.
> 
> No country in world would be so unprofessional its like violation of the normality of the world. A country who has scene greatest of wars suddenly is one of the most non professional ? Isnt it too early to speculate that ?
> 
> To me both countries are fierce and brave and fighting well.


No doubt they are manufacturing huge numbers with war time mania too. Russian army would have planned for all contingencies, they are not fools, but they may be drunk some of the time.


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## Mista

Exclusive: As war began, Putin rejected a Ukraine peace deal recommended by aide


Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead with his military campaign, according to three people close to the...




www.reuters.com












Putin rejected Ukraine peace deal struck by aide as war began: report


President Vladimir Putin’s deputy chief of staff, Dmitry Kozak, had hammered out a deal with Kyiv at the start of the war that would keep Ukraine out of NATO, but the Kremlin strongman report…




nypost.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570159494188908544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570154775488122881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570153756918161409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570118115551490050

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570110494404497408

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## Viet

Mista said:


> Exclusive: As war began, Putin rejected a Ukraine peace deal recommended by aide
> 
> 
> Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead with his military campaign, according to three people close to the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin rejected Ukraine peace deal struck by aide as war began: report
> 
> 
> President Vladimir Putin’s deputy chief of staff, Dmitry Kozak, had hammered out a deal with Kyiv at the start of the war that would keep Ukraine out of NATO, but the Kremlin strongman report…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com


The NATO is a defense alliance she is not a threat to Russia. Putin is a thief. He trying to steal other people property, nothing else.
Putin’s spiritual head is Alexander Dugin, a Russian nationalist. Dugin invents the concept of “Russian world”. In his mind Ukraine doesn’t exist, the West is corrupt. Putin’s military doctrine is based on “ Russian civilization”. 25 million Russians live outside Russia, he sees as his obligation to protect them, irrespective of national borders.

In the book "Foundations of Geopolitics" in 1997 Dugin wrote "It is especially important to introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements -- extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S."









Foundations of Geopolitics - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org

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## Viet

Some interesting thoughts of Dugin on China:



China, which represents a danger to Russia, "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled". Dugin suggests that Russia start by taking Tibet–Xinjiang–Inner Mongolia–Manchuria as a security belt.[1] Russia should offer China help "in a southern direction – Indochina (except Vietnam), the Philippines, Indonesia, Australia" as geopolitical compensation.[9]

On Germany 


Germany should be offered the de facto political dominance over most Protestant and Catholic states located within Central and Eastern Europe. Kaliningrad Oblast could be given back to Germany. The book uses the term "Moscow–Berlin axis".[9]

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Post USSR, Ukraine weakens while Russia strengthens. 5 years from now, Russians out number Ukrainians 5 to 1, population 150 million compared to population 30 million. The longer the war, the worse for Ukraine, the better for Russia.

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## Soldier35

Combat work of Russian 240-mm self-propelled mortars 2S4 "Tulip" in Ukraine. Combat vehicle 2S4 "Tulip" is used in the most difficult sectors of the front.






Twenty Australian-made Bushmaster armored vehicles appeared in Ukraine. The Bushmaster armored car began to be produced in 1998, the car was originally intended to transport 10 soldiers and not to conduct combat operations. The armor of the vehicle protects the crew from 7.62 mm bullets and high explosives, it can be reinforced with modules. According to the developers, the armored vehicle is able to survive a landmine explosion up to 9.5 kg. The R400S-Mk2 combat module with an integrated 40-mm Mk.19 automatic grenade launcher is installed on the vehicle. Despite its appearance, the car is considered successful and has proven itself well. The approximate cost of an armored car, 1.5 million dollars.






Combat work of the Russian Osa-AKM air defense system in Ukraine. According to the servicemen, the air defense duty is on around the clock, only the crew of the air defense system changes.






Russian artillery attack on the Buk air defense system and Krab self-propelled guns of Ukraine. After the discovery of the Ukrainian air defense system, artillery attacked the area and destroyed the installation. A Polish-made Ukrainian self-propelled gun Krab was also found. The self-propelled guns Krab drove into the forest, the self-propelled guns were destroyed there by artillery strikes.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Soldier35 said:


> The approximate cost of an armored car, 1.5 million dollars.



That's damn expensive for an armored car.


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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Don’t be ridiculous that will never come as bad like that. Maybe in some areas of Southern Europe but not the normal case. Germany gas stocks are 87 percent I expect 100 percent end of Sept. Just a shortage of gas but no shortage of coal. Wood oven is more for comfort feeling, not the major source for heating.
> Besides most houses need very few energy. Thanks to gov subsidies if you renovate the houses. My house is built something like below, it can withstand -10 Celsius without heating. Walls, windows, doors are isolated against cold by 3 composite layers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Für die Wärmedämmung ist der Primärenergiebedarf der
> entscheidende Richtwert, Bild: Hornbach Holding AG


Are you sure it's Italian? Would you please help me to see if the text in the picture is Italian?


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## Clutch

Russian soldier in Kharkiv told his father in a call intercepted by Ukrainian intelligence that 'everything's bad,' Russia is 'losing," and they have 'nowhere to run'​Jake Epstein 
15 hours ago

Download the app





Ukrainian soldiers stand on the road in the freed territory of the Kharkiv region, Ukraine, Monday, Sept. 12, 2022. AP Photo/Kostiantyn Liberov

A Russian soldier told his father in an intercepted phone call that "everything's bad" in the war.
Ukraine's intelligence service said it intercepted the call and published it to social media. 
An ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensive in Kharkiv has sent Russian troops scrambling.

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## alimobin memon

Clutch said:


> Russian soldier in Kharkiv told his father in a call intercepted by Ukrainian intelligence that 'everything's bad,' Russia is 'losing," and they have 'nowhere to run'​Jake Epstein
> 15 hours ago
> 
> Download the app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian soldiers stand on the road in the freed territory of the Kharkiv region, Ukraine, Monday, Sept. 12, 2022. AP Photo/Kostiantyn Liberov
> 
> A Russian soldier told his father in an intercepted phone call that "everything's bad" in the war.
> Ukraine's intelligence service said it intercepted the call and published it to social media.
> An ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensive in Kharkiv has sent Russian troops scrambling.


Morale is down for the russian forces. Does not mean Morale couldn't get up.
Get real everyone russia isn't going out so easy. Yes its getting beaten up no doubt about that but Russia is one of the countries who can take a beat and lose for few years before going down.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570289812250263552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570289813982683137


alimobin memon said:


> Morale is down for the russian forces. Does not mean Morale couldn't get up.
> Get real everyone russia isn't going out so easy. Yes its getting beaten up no doubt about that but Russia is one of the countries who can take a beat and lose for few years before going down.



Japan took Hong Kong and Philippines and Malaysia from the Allies in WW2 but still ended up losing. The war is just getting started. Better grab that hot popcorn and enjoy the show.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Are you sure it's Italian? Would you please help me to see if the text in the picture is Italian?
> 
> View attachment 879234


That’s German, means, “Anfeuerholz”, wood used to ignite the fire.
What you need is “Kaminholz”, or “Feuerholz”, firewood used in stove or oven. now selling for 699 euros for 900 kg, free house delivery.









Brennholz Kaminholz Esche auf Palette 2 Raummeter


Getrocknetes Kamin/Brennholz Abmessungen der Palette: 85 cm x 117 cm x 200 cm (Inhalt – 2,0 Raummeter) Brennwert in KWh /rm: 2100 Brennwert in KWh /kg: 4,2 Länge des Brennholzes: 23 cm bis 26 cm Brennholzdurchmesser: 6 cm bis 15...




www.kaufland.de


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570294625306542080


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## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570289812250263552
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570289813982683137
> 
> 
> Japan took Hong Kong and Philippines and Malaysia from the Allies in WW2 but still ended up losing. The war is just getting started. Better grab that hot popcorn and enjoy the show.


Ukraine doesnt need to reinforce kherson. Russia has trouble holding on as it is on that front. 

Ukraine should start to pressure on luhansk/donetsk front. At most reinforce around bakhmut where Wagner still has its mini offensive going.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Ukraine doesnt need to reinforce kherson. Russia has trouble holding on as it is on that front.
> 
> Ukraine should start to pressure on luhansk/donetsk front. At most reinforce around bakhmut where Wagner still has its mini offensive going.



Ukraine is under a lot of stress. Ukraine population 36 million is out numbered more than 4 to 1 by Russia and rebels. It's like Japanese fighting in China in WW2. The odds are not good.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570175662622920704

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## alimobin memon

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570175662622920704


Definitely proof that russia is not sending elite infantries rather sending others to keep war going for interests of Russia.

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## NotSure

So how many soldiers Kiev has lost for this nato planned offensive? Even the Nazi propagandist Illia Ponomarenko said the number of 10k dead ukr. soldiers. 



https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/395391740/




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569937490060128256
End except Kherson Russia hasn't even really defended itself or started a counteroffensive. And in few weeks, when the Russian support will arrive in Kharkiv etc. the ukr. offensive will be trapped in cauldrons.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Second greatest army in the world everybody

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## Viet

Russian tanks have serious design flaws. They offer nearly zero protection against Ukraine infantry armed with western anti tank missiles. It’s like duck shooting.
Putin should send asap modern T90 and T14.
Interesting and free testing field for western weapons.






The scene in the Kharkiv region this weekend after Russian forces retreated.Credit...Juan Barreto/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

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## Reashot Xigwin

NotSure said:


> So how many soldiers Kiev has lost for this nato planned offensive? Even the Nazi propagandist Illia Ponomarenko said the number of 10k dead ukr. soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/395391740/
> 
> 
> 
> End except Kherson Russia hasn't even really defended itself or started a counteroffensive. And in few weeks, when the Russian support will arrive in Kharkiv etc. the ukr. offensive will be trapped in cauldrons.


Clearly the soviet lost judging by the numbers of their casualties. 









World War II casualties of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Viet

NotSure said:


> So how many soldiers Kiev has lost for this nato planned offensive? Even the Nazi propagandist Illia Ponomarenko said the number of 10k dead ukr. soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/395391740/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569937490060128256
> End except Kherson Russia hasn't even really defended itself or started a counteroffensive. And in few weeks, when the Russian support will arrive in Kharkiv etc. the ukr. offensive will be trapped in cauldrons.


Interesting high number of Ukraine casualties

How’s possible when Russians at Charkiw ran faster than Ukraine troop advance? Russians left everything behind. They even stole bicycles from the villagers to run faster when retreating.


----------



## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Clearly the soviet lost judging by the numbers of their casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World War II casualties of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Especially when we are talking about offensive operation. There are ALWAYS more casualty from the attacker than the defender

If you don't want casualty, then go home and watch TV.......lol

BY the way, Illia Ponomarenko mean Ukrainian lose tens of thousands of soldier for the entire war, not just this offensive. Lol, if there are 10,000 kill, Russia would not retreat leaving their grandma behind........



Viet said:


> Interesting high number of Ukraine casualties
> 
> How’s possible when Russians at Charkiw ran faster than Ukraine troop advance? Russians left everything behind. They even stole bicycles from the villagers to run faster when retreating.


That's because he takes that tweet out of context.....

Sometime people need to read the comment section of the tweet instead of just the tweet...

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## Reashot Xigwin

Let's point and laugh at the russians some more.

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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> BY the way, Illia Ponomarenko mean Ukrainian lose tens of thousands of soldier for the entire war, not just this offensive.


Mmmm, the entire war. Yeah, sure, sure. You are even parroting this copium nonsense, which you can read on reddit.

The number of dead ukr. soldiers for the entire war is somewhere around 100k - 200k. 



jhungary said:


> Lol, if there are 10,000 kill, Russia would not retreat leaving their grandma behind........


Again our "military man" is failing on elementary school math. The whole world knows, the american education system is pure garbage, but this? We have a German word for it: Zum Fremdschaemen.

Or are you simply a parrot, a propaganda NPC who will parrot every nonsense from Pentagon and the so called ISW, which is run by Nuland-Kagan? Are you really not embarrassed to prostitute yourself?


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## NotSure

Lol, it's like he is reading here in the forum. Or wait, maybe all the western "military men" are more or less all the same kind of NPCs with the same behavrior and are parroting all the same propaganda?


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## ZeGerman

*_* said:


> Ponomarenko is meaning FATAL causalities (Death) since September 24 2022 - 10 September 10k+ Killed atm according him
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569937490060128256
> Full article
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illia Ponomarenko: Stop whining about the war in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Sometimes, it just makes sense to admit that clairvoyance is a rare gift. And that not too many people can explain the future. Especially concerning things as complex as the largest European war since WWII. Russia’s all-out invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyivindependent.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a estimate from all sides
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


The guy is talkin about months. Talking about total killed up till 15-9 of when interview was done. 

Russia bullshit once again

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## 313ghazi

This war has not turned out as I expected. The incompetence and corruption of the Russian military has been exposed wholesale.

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## Viet

*_* said:


> Ponomarenko is meaning FATAL causalities (Death) since September 24 2022 - 10 September 10k+ Killed atm according him
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569937490060128256
> Full article
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illia Ponomarenko: Stop whining about the war in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Sometimes, it just makes sense to admit that clairvoyance is a rare gift. And that not too many people can explain the future. Especially concerning things as complex as the largest European war since WWII. Russia’s all-out invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyivindependent.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a estimate from all sides
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Well, when 6 or 7 months 10k fatalities on Ukraine army is very possible. The number of injuries would go 5x times higher.

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## Vergennes

NotSure said:


> The number of dead ukr. soldiers for the entire war is somewhere around 100k - 200k.



I thought Hassan al whatever was full on copium but seems like someone's taking the first prize. If 200K Ukrainian soldiers were killed Russia would already walk in Lviv. 

You are probably the same dude believing RuMod briefings about how their "regrouping" was planned and was well conducted while leaving hundreds (if not thousands) pieces of equipments in Kharkiv (that are discovered every days) or claiming to have hit a barge full of Ukrainian special forces and killed 2000 of them when they actually hit a German WW2 part bridge lol

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## Broccoli

313ghazi said:


> This war has not turned out as I expected. The incompetence and corruption of the Russian military has been exposed wholesale.



Funniest thing about this whole thing is that Russia fanboys still believe that Russia has the second best military.

Russian air force hasn't managed to achieve air dominance in seven months against an opponent whats right next their country and is numerically much weaker.

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## gambit

Broccoli said:


> Funniest thing about this whole thing is that Russia fanboys still believe that Russia has the second best military.
> 
> Russian air force hasn't managed to achieve air dominance in seven months against an opponent whats right next their country and is numerically much weaker.


Wait for it...

Mr. HanPastry will spew his Russia 'total war' at ya...

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## Vergennes

gambit said:


> Wait for it...
> 
> Mr. HanPastry will spew his Russia 'total war' at ya...



The real Russian army is at home waiting for NATO.

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## Broccoli

gambit said:


> Wait for it...
> 
> Mr. HanPastry will spew his Russia 'total war' at ya...



I'd like to see someone explain why Russian Su-30's and Su-34 aren't providing CAS to Russian troops.

RuAF is unable to provide even basic "services".

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570347641757913089


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## gambit

Broccoli said:


> I'd like to see someone explain why Russian Su-30's and Su-34 aren't providing CAS to Russian troops.
> 
> RuAF is unable to provide even basic "services".


I commented on the VKS months earlier. Use keywords search 'airborne artillery' to see why I think the VKS essentially failed in Ukraine. As far as the Ukrainian Air Force goes, they are too numerically inferior in proportionate to the entire Russian Army campaign to matter. So given the limited war doctrine for the Russian Air Force and few numbers of the Ukrainian Air Force, this war is essentially a ground war, we Air Force guys are nearly useless. See @jhungary for details on the ground war.

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Let's point and laugh at the russians some more.


Seems Putin spends more money on propaganda and yachts than on basic military hardware for the fighting troops.
Even Ukraine tanks are more protective than Russian tanks of same type.
Look at protective shields at turret and wheels.






Bild vergrößern
Ukrainische Panzer: Den Russen die Initiative entrissen

Foto: Ukrainian Ministry of Defence / AFP

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## NotSure

Vergennes said:


> I thought Hassan al whatever was full on copium but seems like someone's taking the first prize. If 200K Ukrainian soldiers were killed Russia would already walk in Lviv.


Not with:

a) A population of ~40 millions and that many mobilization waves. They are now even forcing old people and women to the front. Why is the Nato-Regime in Kiev doing this? Because they are simply running out of soldiers. * So 100k dead is even a very low estimate.*

b) The huge support of the whole Nato + other angloid countries like Australia. Ukraine had a huge reserve of tanks, APCs etc. and they are all destroyed + all the old soviet stockpiles combined the ex-warsaw Pacts countries had left are nearly destroyed too, so they are switching more and more to western weapons. So the human loses had to be horrendous.

The rest of your garbage i will not even try to comment. I will not wasting my time with Nato NPCs. I suggest you milk the tactical successes from this offensives as much as you can, because at the end the reality will kick in.

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> Mmmm, the entire war. Yeah, sure, sure. You are even parroting this copium nonsense, which you can read on reddit.
> 
> The number of dead ukr. soldiers for the entire war is somewhere around 100k - 200k.
> 
> 
> Again our "military man" is failing on elementary school math. The whole world knows, the american education system is pure garbage, but this? We have a German word for it: Zum Fremdschaemen.
> 
> Or are you simply a parrot, a propaganda NPC who will parrot every nonsense from Pentagon and the so called ISW, which is run by Nuland-Kagan? Are you really not embarrassed to prostitute yourself?


That's why i said you know shit about Military. 

First of all, you don't even know what the standard kill/wounded ratio is. Usually, you will have 5 or more wounded for every one killed in any peer war, 3 to 1 in general for non-peer. US invasion of Afghanistan have seen 2456 American killed and 20752 wounded for the entire 20 years operation. Of those 1908 killed were from direct action, and 14,000 wounded were from enemy action (ie purple heart were awarded) 

If Ukrainian lost 100k-200K there will *NOT BE A SINGLE UKRAINIAN STANDING*, seeing the entire Ukrainian Military as of now are somewhere north of 600,000, at most 700,000 that is given the war started with 214,000 Ukrainian army reported strength and we add 100,000 fully trained soldier a month, which in itself is impossible to do. For Ukraine to suffer 100,000 KIA, they would have around 500,000 WIA, or may be more seeing Russian military superiority. 

As for this operation, you cannot hide the troop in battle, they wear uniform and can be identifiable. Here are the maps.









Deployment map of military units in Ukraine


Interactive map with up-to-date vizualization of Ukrainian, Separatists and Russian units deployment inside and near Ukraine.



militaryland.net





There are 6 Brigade in Kherson, 9 in Kharkiv, Not all of them are in the push, but let's say they all are, that's 15 Brigade, each Brigade have 4000 men, a quick calculation would see 60,000 troop were use, again, with 5 to 1 wounded to killed ratio, all of those men in Kharkiv and Kherson would have been dead or wounded if Ukrainian suffer 10,000 killed. Because that would mean 10,000 killed and 50,000 wounded.


But then meh, what do I expect? Do I expect you to know the science of Force Regeneration? NO. But then at least you should check the original tweet Illia Ponomarenko made, he had explained in the comment section that he meant the entire operation. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569937490060128256
But hey, if you want to be a lazy a$$, that's you. I got nothing to say.



Vergennes said:


> I thought Hassan al whatever was full on copium but seems like someone's taking the first prize. If 200K Ukrainian soldiers were killed Russia would already walk in Lviv.
> 
> You are probably the same dude believing RuMod briefings about how their "regrouping" was planned and was well conducted while leaving hundreds (if not thousands) pieces of equipments in Kharkiv (that are discovered every days) or claiming to have hit a barge full of Ukrainian special forces and killed 2000 of them when they actually hit a German WW2 part bridge lol


@NotSure killed at least that many in his dream LOL

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## jhungary

Broccoli said:


> I'd like to see someone explain why Russian Su-30's and Su-34 aren't providing CAS to Russian troops.
> 
> RuAF is unable to provide even basic "services".


Before I explain in detail, let me tell you a true story I had when I was in Iraq. 

I was part of the first spearhead to the "Race to Baghdad" with the 3d Infantry Division in Iraq, that's back in 2003. What we essentially doing is to roll thru the enemy and let the mech infantry (that's us) to capture the area so the armor and spearhead can keep the momentum. 

So basically, the armor punch thru a line and we dismount from our transport and fight the routing Iraqi. The only thing is, it kind of depends on the Iraqi unit, sometimes they melted, sometimes they surrender, but sometimes they decided to fight on. I remember a village outside of Al-Najaf, the tank of 1st Brigade rolled thru and we are dismounted and try to take that village. We are about a company size, maybe minus a Platoon, anyway, the Iraqi that got rolled melted back into Najaf (which is around 5 click away IIRC) but then they come back with Reinforcement from Najaf, we got basically F'ked and got pinned down because the tanks and IFV had drove off, we are kind of naked. So I talked to my JTAC team (A lawyer and A pilot) and ask for Fast Mover. I know from Mission Briefing there are at least a pair of strike eagle above us. The JTAC team goes to works, come back and tell me that's a no go. Because the F-15 are needed elsewhere, the forward element were hitting stone in Karbala Gap, they diverted all available asset to help them punch thru, all I have is a pair of expanded F-16 coming back from an airstrike or RTBing, they ask me if I wanted them to do a fly-by instead. And quote "Maybe they can scare'em" 

Long story short, we were picked up by the trailing 101st Airborne Unit and together we push the Iraqi out, No Airstrike, No fly by and nothing. I think I have 3 wounded because of that. 

Now, as for why no Su-30 and Su-34 flying CAS for ground troop? I don't know. I am not familiar with Russian Air Force, but from my own experience, It's not like you can just drag unit off the shelve and use it that way, to call an airstrike you will need to have aircraft loitering in the area first, you know what unit you have when you are being brief on before the mission. But then, that's not a guarantee, because it also depends on whether or not they are in the area you are in, and then whether or not they are armed, and then whether or not they can get to you and drop the bomb. And finally at least for us, we have a very strict restriction or envelope before I can call in an Air Strike, that's why there are 2 officer in the JTAC team, a Pilot, who clear the route and direct the aircraft for the incoming, and a Lawyer, who then preside on the decision on whether or not that is a legitimate target, if you have 1 single civilian within Danger Close (2 km for fast mover) the lawyer will nullify the strike, afterall they are Air Force and it's their asset, we are just using them.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Let's point and laugh at the russians some more.


Maybe they like egg carton so much, they made helmet out of it too, I mean, you just can't put them all inside the reactive armor, right??

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The US has bigger problem than China. The US has demographic decline.


Ah yes the old change the topic you’ve been using for 400+ pages.
News flash China has a population problem


----------



## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> So how many soldiers Kiev has lost for this nato planned offensive? Even the Nazi propagandist Illia Ponomarenko said the number of 10k dead ukr. soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/395391740/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569937490060128256
> End except Kherson Russia hasn't even really defended itself or started a counteroffensive. And in few weeks, when the Russian support will arrive in Kharkiv etc. the ukr. offensive will be trapped in cauldrons.


Can you give me some winning lotto numbers too since you can see the future?


----------



## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570347641757913089



This base totally got wrecked

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570169288849326082
@gambit @F-22Raptor @jhungary

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## notorious_eagle

313ghazi said:


> This war has not turned out as I expected. The incompetence and corruption of the Russian military has been exposed wholesale.


You're not the only one. I think everyone is stunned as to how incompetent and corrupt the Russian Army is. We thought they had an extremely well trained/drilled military fighting machine, but turns it out, just having overwhelming fancy weapons does not win you wars. Their Command Structure is extremely rigid, the NCO is largely nonexistent and this is why they are struggling to adapt and think outside the box on the battlefield. The current Ukrainian offensive in Kharkiv where they spotted a gap and acted decisively to exploit it, i don't think the Russians can replicate a quick thinking operation like this.


gambit said:


> I commented on the VKS months earlier. Use keywords search 'airborne artillery' to see why I think the VKS essentially failed in Ukraine. As far as the Ukrainian Air Force goes, they are too numerically inferior in proportionate to the entire Russian Army campaign to matter. So given the limited war doctrine for the Russian Air Force and few numbers of the Ukrainian Air Force, this war is essentially a ground war, we Air Force guys are nearly useless. See @jhungary for details on the ground war.


This has been the biggest surprise for me, the Russian Air Force. While the incompetence of the Russian Army is here for all to see, but the incompetence of Russian Air Force crosses all leaps and bounds considering the Russian Air Force has decent equipment. What they did not learn from the US from Gulf War and Serbia is that electronic warfare is now a major force in the aerial battlefield. Its clear that the Russians invested very little in EW and building up a credible C4I. Heck, Pakistan with only a fraction of resources learnt from the Americans how important Electronic Warfare and C4I is and thus dedicated majority of their development budget in creating a credible Electronic Warfare and C4I network. The Russians have a pretty big defense budget for the size of their economy.

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## ZeGerman

NotSure said:


> Not with:
> 
> a) A population of ~40 millions and that many mobilization waves. They are now even forcing old people and women to the front. Why is the Nato-Regime in Kiev doing this? Because they are simply running out of soldiers. * So 100k dead is even a very low estimate.*
> 
> b) The huge support of the whole Nato + other angloid countries like Australia. Ukraine had a huge reserve of tanks, APCs etc. and they are all destroyed + all the old soviet stockpiles combined the ex-warsaw Pacts countries had left are nearly destroyed too, so they are switching more and more to western weapons. So the human loses had to be horrendous.
> 
> The rest of your garbage i will not even try to comment. I will not wasting my time with Nato NPCs. I suggest you milk the tactical successes from this offensives as much as you can, because at the end the reality will kick in.


I wonder what bullshit you will spew once kherson falls.

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570169288849326082
> @gambit @F-22Raptor @jhungary


Haha.......

There is another joke in Telegram saying the reason why Russia military performed this badly is because Putin try to convince the Ukrainian they are no harm, and they don't need NATO......


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570325462764634112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570379369281101824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570370484520325120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570369987344228354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570369655230824449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570364430873165824

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570364490360791043

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570362503758217216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570359850533535744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570336067919941632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570349960553455618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570337375167074305


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570317179081326595


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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> That's why i said you know shit about Military.
> 
> First of all, you don't even know what the standard kill/wounded ratio is. Usually, you will have 5 or more wounded for every one killed in any peer war, 3 to 1 in general for non-peer. US invasion of Afghanistan have seen 2456 American killed and 20752 wounded for the entire 20 years operation. Of those 1908 killed were from direct action, and 14,000 wounded were from enemy action (ie purple heart were awarded)
> 
> If Ukrainian lost 100k-200K there will *NOT BE A SINGLE UKRAINIAN STANDING*, seeing the entire Ukrainian Military as of now are somewhere north of 600,000, at most 700,000 that is given the war started with 214,000 Ukrainian army reported strength and



Everybody knows these ratios, even "military men" like you.

I repeat: You have problems with elementary school math and even basic logic. Your second problem is, to pull garbage sources out of your a ss.

Around 150k are dead. If you add 500.000 wounded, than you have around 650k maybe 700k combined. NO, not todays ukr. army, bcs most of them are dead or wounded. Combined for the whole 7 months. Kiev left with somewhere around 100k soldiers, maybe 200k bcs they are conscripting people with force (=much more conscripted than your 700k number for the whole time) and a bloody dictatorship. Which helps by the way to hide the causalties and silence the families of the dead soldiers.



jhungary said:


> and we add 100,000 fully trained soldier a month, which in itself is impossible to do.



They are NOT fully trained, me and others are saying it the whole time. You genius are pulling assumptions out of your angloid a*ss and then using it for an argument in a circular logic. They are NOT fully trained at all, they are used as cannon fodder by this bloody Nazi Regime under Nato control.




jhungary said:


> Deployment map of military units in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Interactive map with up-to-date vizualization of Ukrainian, Separatists and Russian units deployment inside and near Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> militaryland.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are 6 Brigade in Kherson, 9 in Kharkiv, Not all of them are in the push, but let's say they all are, that's 15 Brigade, each Brigade have 4000 men, a quick calculation would see 60,000 troop were use, again, with 5 to 1 wounded to killed ratio, all of those men in Kharkiv and Kherson would have been dead or wounded if Ukrainian suffer 10,000 killed. Because that would mean 10,000 killed and 50,000 wounded.



You can shovel your Nato "sources" right back into you a*ss again, including the numbers. Only one thing regarding the 10k number: One month ago this presstitute Ponomarenko wrote 10k dead for the whole 6 months, which is already ridiculous. But now one month later and a complete failed Kherson offensive there are still only 10k dead?

And you are talking about numbers? Lol ...I guess in murica you have stopped to learn math at all and prefer now only garbage like gender studies etc.


----------



## jhungary

NotSure said:


> Everybody knows these ratios, even "military men" like you.
> 
> I repeat: You have problems with elementary school math and even basic logic. Your second problem is, to pull garbage sources out of your a ss.
> 
> Around 150k are dead. If you add 500.000 wounded, than you have around 650k maybe 700k combined. NO, not todays ukr. army, bcs most of them are dead or wounded. Combined for the whole 7 months. Kiev left with somewhere around 100k soldiers, maybe 200k bcs they are conscripting people with force and a bloody dictatorship. Which helps by the way to hide the causalties and silence the families of the dead soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> They are NOT fully trained, me and others are saying it the whole time. You genius are pulling assumptions out of your angloid a*ss and then using it for an argument in a circular logic. They are NOT fully trained at all, they are used as cannon fodder by this bloody Nazi Regime under Nato control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can shovel your Nato "sources" right back into you a*ss again, including the numbers.


lol, that's just show you have no idea how battlefield works. You can't defend the ENTIRE Ukraine with 200k soldier, if they did, Russian already in Lviv right now. And if most of them are dead and wounded,, do tell me why professional army (at least according to you) like Russia cannot make head way into Ukraine? While we are seeing the exact opposite?

And if they are not "fully trained" and they can dislodge Russian Kharkiv position like that in just 4 days, then Russian Military is more of a joke than we thought out to be. Or you think a rapid assault on a static position *WITHOUT* air support is an easy task any dude given an AK can pull off??

Lol, and I am wondering why I am still replying to you.............

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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> lol, that's just show you have no idea how battlefield works. You can't defend the ENTIRE Ukraine with 200k soldier, if they did, Russian already in Lviv right now. And if most of them are dead and wounded,, do tell me why professional army (at least according to you) cannot make head way into Ukraine? While we are seeing the exact opposite?
> 
> And if they are not "fully trained" and they can dislodge Russian Kharkiv position like that in just 4 days, then Russian Military is more of a joke than we thought out to be. Or you think a rapid assault on a static position *WITHOUT* air support is an easy task any dude given an AK can pull off??
> 
> Lol, and I am wondering why I am still replying to you.............


Again you are pulling assumptions out of your a*ss and then using it for circular logic nonsense. Did i forgot something? Ah yes, the hard propaganda line, the propaganda narrative for this war: Russia is weak, Russia is losing. Bla, bla.

I will explain it only one time to you and the other NPCs here, parroting the Nato propaganda garbage.

What is UKUSAs goal?

1) The goal is to topple the Russian Gov. and install a sinophobe Regime, to use it later in the same way Ukraine is now abused against Russia.

2) To archive this, UKUSA have to win this war in the reality (impossible) or in the propaganda. Not the reality matters, the perception in Russia matters.

3) Why is it so? Because the liberal attempt for a regime change in Russia failed miserably. The next try is to use the patriotic mindset the Russians have. And you know what? It is common knowledge in Russia since at least 10 years ...

4) So you have to repeat it again and again, how weak Russia is, the Russian military, the Generals, Putin, Shoigu, bla, bla.

Last point:

5) What is your position here? What is your opinion here? The ridiculouis thing is, you do not even have an own opinion and don't even understand your own behavrior here. You are simply parroting the narrative i have explained above. I called you a NPC for exact this reason.

So i suggest you continue doing so. With your overblown american ego it is already your normal behavrior. You can pollute this thread with you walls of text to larp the "military man". Pls, feel free do do so. Because this doesn't matter.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570315221478133761
Then bring it on Igor. The US will deliver the death blow

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> Again you are pulling assumptions out of your a*ss and then using it for circular logic nonsense. Did i forgot something? Ah yes, the hard propaganda line, the propaganda narrative for this war: Russia is weak, Russia is losing. Bla, bla.
> 
> I will explain it only one time to you and the other NPCs here, parroting the Nato propaganda garbage.
> 
> What is UKUSAs goal?
> 
> 1) The goal is to topple the Russian Gov. and install a sinophobe Regime, to use it later in the same way Ukraine is now abused against Russia.
> 
> 2) To archive this, UKUSA have to win this war in the reality (impossible) or in the propaganda. Not the reality matters, the perception in Russia matters.
> 
> 3) Why is it so? Because the liberal attempt for a regime change in Russia failed miserably. The next try is to use the patriotic mindset the Russians have. And you know what? It is common knowledge in Russia since at least 10 years ...
> 
> 4) So you have to repeat it again and again, how weak Russia is, the Russian military, the Generals, Putin, Shoigu, bla, bla.
> 
> Last point:
> 
> 5) What is your position here? What is your opinion here? The ridiculouis thing is, you do not even have an own opinion and don't even understand your own behavrior here. You are simply parroting the narrative i have explained above. I called you a NPC for exact this reason.
> 
> So i suggest you continue doing so. With your overblown american ego it is already your normal behavrior. You can pollute this thread with you walls of text to larp the "military man". Pls, feel free do do so. Because this doesn't matter.


lol, whatever you say........

I honestly don't know what all this have to do with troop level and progress in the war, but yes. If you say Russia is winning, then Russia is winning or if NATO and US cannot win, then US and NATO cannot win. I have no problem for someone to live in a delusion.

I honestly don't even know why I bother to talk to you anymore.....

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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> I honestly don't even know why I bother to talk to you anymore.....


That's a good question. Why is it so important for you, what i am thinking? Why is it important for all you Nato NPC how the Russian economy is doing and so on? Why you have to sit here 24/7 and constantly mention it? Russia here, Russia there, bla, bla.

I will tell you: Because your propaganda said so and you have no own opinion and never had. And why the Nato propaganda is build in such a way i have already explained.


jhungary said:


> lol, whatever you say........
> I honestly don't even know why I bother to talk to you anymore.....


Satzzeichen sind keine Rudeltiere.


----------



## jhungary

NotSure said:


> That's a good question. Why is it so important for you, what i am thinking? Why is it important for all you Nato NPC how the Russian economy is doing and so on? Why you have to sit here 24/7 and constantly mention it? Russia here, Russia there, bla, bla.
> 
> I will tell you: Because your propaganda said so and you have no own opinion and never had. And why the Nato propaganda is build in such a way i have already explained.
> 
> Satzzeichen sind keine Rudeltiere.


I have NEVER mention anything other than the actual Military Progress in this war. 

I mean, if you want to think that's NATO propaganda. Then well, that's your call. At the end of the day, I don't really care what Russian can achieve or what NATO can achieve, my interest lies in how each side prosecute this war. That's it. 

And if you have to say "Propaganda" that much, wasn't you are indulging in your own propaganda in order for you to say so? Well, you don't need to answer that cos we all have a pretty good ideas.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

newly delivered BMP-2M light tanks








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570379369281101824


----------



## Viet

Germany provides Kiew with additional weapons. High precise multiple missile launchers and armored verhicles. The most surprising part is not weapons, Ukraine can expect to join the EU in 2 years.






Bild vergrößern
Raketenwerfer Mars II

Foto: Chris Emil JanÃxen / imago images/Chris Emil


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570398185767460866


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570415926616674306

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570405832696758272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570403011725500416


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570416502368776193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570416668626817026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570416005394100227


----------



## PakFactor

notorious_eagle said:


> You're not the only one. I think everyone is stunned as to how incompetent and corrupt the Russian Army is. We thought they had an extremely well trained/drilled military fighting machine, but turns it out, just having overwhelming fancy weapons does not win you wars. Their Command Structure is extremely rigid, the NCO is largely nonexistent and this is why they are struggling to adapt and think outside the box on the battlefield. The current Ukrainian offensive in Kharkiv where they spotted a gap and acted decisively to exploit it, i don't think the Russians can replicate a quick thinking operation like this.
> 
> This has been the biggest surprise for me, the Russian Air Force. While the incompetence of the Russian Army is here for all to see, but the incompetence of Russian Air Force crosses all leaps and bounds considering the Russian Air Force has decent equipment. What they did not learn from the US from Gulf War and Serbia is that electronic warfare is now a major force in the aerial battlefield. Its clear that the Russians invested very little in EW and building up a credible C4I. Heck, Pakistan with only a fraction of resources learnt from the Americans how important Electronic Warfare and C4I is and thus dedicated majority of their development budget in creating a credible Electronic Warfare and C4I network. The Russians have a pretty big defense budget for the size of their economy.



Now the question is, will the Russians return to the drawing board to rebuild and rebuild properly after this conflict? I see that it’s often difficult to adapt to a strict environment like the Russian high command.


----------



## thetutle

PakFactor said:


> Now the question becomes after this conflict will the Russians go back to the drawing board to rebuild, and rebuild properly? The issue I see is it’s often times difficult to adapt is a strict environment like the Russia high command.


we dont know what will come after this conflict and if there will be a need to rebuild anything. you're assuming things go back to normal and all countries remain in their current shape and form.

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## TNT

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Post USSR, Ukraine weakens while Russia strengthens. 5 years from now, Russians out number Ukrainians 5 to 1, population 150 million compared to population 30 million. The longer the war, the worse for Ukraine, the better for Russia.



You are a dumb moron and should be banned to even talk. The whole thread is stinking with ur stupid crap. Why is this headache not permanently banned? @mods

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## Viet

The head behind Ukraine military success. Colonel general Alexander Syrskyj, the commanding general of Ukraine land army. He belongs to a new generation of army commanders after the collapse of USSR.

Reading an interview from a government official. Ukraine says if she receives the means she requests in terms of weapons from the West, Ukraine army will annihilate the Russia army in a month.







Bild vergrößern
Generaloberst Syrskyj: Bescheidener Held

Foto:
Vadim Ghirda / AP


----------



## 925boy

LeGenD said:


> LeGenD said:
> 
> 
> 
> and Russians feel strongly about absorbing Ukraine due to historical factors.
Click to expand...

Historical factors or NATO integration? ignoring UKraine's pending NATO accession proves bias or ignorance. smh.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570425390400937987


----------



## 925boy

Broccoli said:


> I've noticed lack on fighting footage coming from Russians. Russians are only capable of attacking civilian targets because second rate military can't win on battlefield and is on panick mode.


SO lets agree US has 1st rate military then, so explain this- why has US killed more than 1 m civilians in the middle east and Asia since 9/11? If killing civilians is truly due to having 2nd rate military, US military wont have done it either, SO EH, YOUR lie is proven to be false.

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## PakFactor

thetutle said:


> we dont know what will come after this conflict and if there will be a need to rebuild anything. you're assuming things go back to normal and all countries remain in their current shape and form.



No, minus the form of the geopolitical landscape, just the military force by itself. Considering it's a wounded beast, its blood will draw others to it.


----------



## thetutle

here is Tony Blair, knight of the Order of the Garter and former PM, making it very clear that this will never be allowed to end with russia getting any reward for what it has done.

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## PakFactor

925boy said:


> SO lets agree US has 1st rate military then, so explain this- why has US killed more than 1 m civilians in the middle east and Asia since 9/11? If killing civilians is truly due to having 2nd rate military, US military wont have done it either, SO EH, YOUR lie is proven to be false.



Be happy it was only one million civilians, had the US not restrained itself further, multiple foreign countries would have been depopulated conventionally by now.

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## ZeGerman

TNT said:


> You are a dumb moron and should be banned to even talk. The whole thread is stinking with ur stupid crap. Why is this headache not permanently banned? @mods


I actually start to feel dumber every post i read through. 🤣

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> here is Tony Blair, knight of the Order of the Garter and former PM, making it very clear that this will never be allowed to end with russia getting any reward for what it has done.



Anglos are more war monger than any other nation on the planet. Every day Anglos fight war. Anglos once had the largest empire in the world.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570430474706735104


----------



## gambit

jhungary said:


> So I talked to my JTAC team (A *lawyer* and A pilot) and ask for Fast Mover.
> 
> we have a very strict restriction or envelope before I can call in an Air Strike, that's why there are 2 officer in the JTAC team, a Pilot, who clear the route and direct the aircraft for the incoming, and a *Lawyer*, who then preside on the decision on whether or not that is a legitimate target, if you have 1 single civilian within Danger Close (2 km for fast mover) the lawyer will nullify the strike


Were we surprised when we saw our wing's JAGs got their BDUs and deployed to Desert Storm. After, we were told that DS was the most legalistic war 'ever' in history, meaning the allies had lawyers in places no one, especially our ME allies, never expected. But I thought the word 'ever' was an exaggeration back then and I was correct because today, there are lawyers down to levels you saw, whereas our lawyers were more at the strike package level.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

925boy said:


> SO lets agree US has 1st rate military then, so explain this- why has US killed more than 1 m civilians in the middle east and Asia since 9/11? If killing civilians is truly due to having 2nd rate military, US military wont have done it either, SO EH, YOUR lie is proven to be false.


The US has not killed 1M civilians in the Middle East and Asia since 9/11.
As an example, in Iraq there has been ~200,000 civilians killed since 9/11, but 90-95% of those killed were killed by other Iraqis.

So you are basically lying your teeths out.






Iraq Body Count







www.iraqbodycount.org

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## Mista

jhungary said:


> Before I explain in detail, let me tell you a true story I had when I was in Iraq.
> 
> I was part of the first spearhead to the "Race to Baghdad" with the 3d Infantry Division in Iraq, that's back in 2003. What we essentially doing is to roll thru the enemy and let the mech infantry (that's us) to capture the area so the armor and spearhead can keep the momentum.
> 
> So basically, the armor punch thru a line and we dismount from our transport and fight the routing Iraqi. The only thing is, it kind of depends on the Iraqi unit, sometimes they melted, sometimes they surrender, but sometimes they decided to fight on. I remember a village outside of Al-Najaf, the tank of 1st Brigade rolled thru and we are dismounted and try to take that village. We are about a company size, maybe minus a Platoon, anyway, the Iraqi that got rolled melted back into Najaf (which is around 5 click away IIRC) but then they come back with Reinforcement from Najaf, we got basically F'ked and got pinned down because the tanks and IFV had drove off, we are kind of naked. So I talked to my JTAC team (A lawyer and A pilot) and ask for Fast Mover. I know from Mission Briefing there are at least a pair of strike eagle above us. The JTAC team goes to works, come back and tell me that's a no go. Because the F-15 are needed elsewhere, the forward element were hitting stone in Karbala Gap, they diverted all available asset to help them punch thru, all I have is a pair of expanded F-16 coming back from an airstrike or RTBing, they ask me if I wanted them to do a fly-by instead. And quote "Maybe they can scare'em"
> 
> Long story short, we were picked up by the trailing 101st Airborne Unit and together we push the Iraqi out, No Airstrike, No fly by and nothing. I think I have 3 wounded because of that.
> 
> Now, as for why no Su-30 and Su-34 flying CAS for ground troop? I don't know. I am not familiar with Russian Air Force, but from my own experience, It's not like you can just drag unit off the shelve and use it that way, to call an airstrike you will need to have aircraft loitering in the area first, you know what unit you have when you are being brief on before the mission. But then, that's not a guarantee, because it also depends on whether or not they are in the area you are in, and then whether or not they are armed, and then whether or not they can get to you and drop the bomb. And finally at least for us, we have a very strict restriction or envelope before I can call in an Air Strike, that's why there are 2 officer in the JTAC team, a Pilot, who clear the route and direct the aircraft for the incoming, and a Lawyer, who then preside on the decision on whether or not that is a legitimate target, if you have 1 single civilian within Danger Close (2 km for fast mover) the lawyer will nullify the strike, afterall they are Air Force and it's their asset, we are just using them.
> 
> 
> Maybe they like egg carton so much, they made helmet out of it too, I mean, you just can't put them all inside the reactive armor, right??



Thanks, that's quite informative.


----------



## gambit

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The US has not killed 1M civilians in the Middle East and Asia since 9/11.
> As an example, in Iraq there has been ~200,000 civilians killed since 9/11, but 90-95% of those killed were killed by other Iraqis.
> 
> So you are basically lying your teeths out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq Body Count
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iraqbodycount.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 879344


He did not lied. The way it works is like this...

If someone was suspected of collaborating with the US and he was killed for that suspicion, then it would count as a US-caused death. The direct gun-to-person criteria was discarded long ago. If there was just the presence of an American within horizon view range, any civilian death will be attributed to be US-caused.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570440530609295361


----------



## gambit

PakFactor said:


> Now the question is, *will the Russians return to the drawing board to rebuild and rebuild properly after this conflict?* I see that it’s often difficult to adapt to a strict environment like the Russian high command.


No. Not because Russia 'will not' but 'cannot'. From the Cold War, we know that the best military that you can create require the best economy you can create. Look at China and the PLA, for example. There is no guarantee because there are many other factors, internal politics for one, involved. But it is acknowledged that money equals choices.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570431485823303680

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570431485823303680



Useless waste of ammo. It's made of concrete.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570417540513558533

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570185423728541699

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570185423728541699



The decline in life expectancy and lack of healthcare is depopulating Ukraine back to middle ages.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570405001238904833

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570182245805346816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570446455344885766


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570405001238904833





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570314920226623488

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570417540513558533





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570293384581124096

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570452048738455554

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570450937000624128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570370484520325120

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570413506893078530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570412234945495040


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570437722623426563

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570405638852775940

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570394898720849921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570434141682036739
What is this? Does Khadyarov care about US sanctions? I am not getting the point of these sanctions.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570421404750991360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570400398099288065

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570427754566324225

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## PakFactor

gambit said:


> No. Not because Russia 'will not' but 'cannot'. From the Cold War, we know that the best military that you can create require the best economy you can create. Look at China and the PLA, for example. There is no guarantee because there are many other factors, internal politics for one, involved. But it is acknowledged that money equals choices.



That is very true. In your opinion, what course of action will Russia and its armed forces take, based on your military career studies of Russian military and political thinking? They have two more NATO members in the north and Ukraine, a major non-NATO ally down the road.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570424652132155392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570424638840127488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570424638840127488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570424638840127488


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakFactor said:


> That is very true. In your opinion and from that era, what course of action will Russia as a whole and its armed forces take? They have two more NATO members in the north and Ukraine, a major non-NATO ally down the road.



I think if the Yanks were smart they would have turned Russia into a major non NATO ally. Russians always loved the West, even during Soviet era. It is Yanks who pushed Russians into Chinese arms.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainians attacks on Peski, Donetsk went horribly wrong. Their bodies are all over the place.



Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570386225961336833
Video is here 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570396714514939904

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> SO lets agree US has 1st rate military then, so explain this- why has US killed more than 1 m civilians in the middle east and Asia since 9/11? If killing civilians is truly due to having 2nd rate military, US military wont have done it either, SO EH, YOUR lie is proven to be false.


Fake news once again, your 1 mil civilians has been proven to be false over and over

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570405638852775940
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570394898720849921
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570434141682036739
> What is this? Does Khadyarov care about US sanctions? I am not getting the point of these sanctions.


Maybe he cares less. Putting this facist Kadyrov however on sanction list makes sense for the west. Now he is treated like a terrorist. His money if found hidden in western banks is confiscated. His villa, yacht. His family members, his girlfriend will receive the same treatment.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570414965168668673

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

TV guided missiles


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570467001616969728


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570414965168668673



Good luck transporting that with no fuel. Russia bomb Ukraine's oil refinery.


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570414965168668673



The US is going to exhaust Russia to the point where it’s military is completely destroyed. 

Over 6,000 losses in 7 months already

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The US is going to exhaust Russia to the point where it’s military is completely destroyed.
> 
> Over 6,000 losses in 7 months already



Russia has population growth since 2010. It's almost 150 million by now.



Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570461001572823045




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570454494332481539


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570432250105192452

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## Viet

Germany sends 50x Dingo scout verhicles, 40x Soviet BMP-1 light tanks. The EU parliament approved 5 billion euros in loans to Ukraine.







50 Spähfahrzeuge "

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Germany sends 50x Dingo scout verhicles, 40x Soviet BMP-1 light tanks, 5 billion euros in loans over the EU funds to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 50 Spähfahrzeuge "



Ukraine is a middle ages country with no electricity, no running water, no fuel. No money to repay loan.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570465449854263307

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570472781464174592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570447332579106818


----------



## Lehrasap

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I think if the Yanks were smart they would have turned Russia into a major non NATO ally. Russians always loved the West, even during Soviet era. It is Yanks who pushed Russians into Chinese arms.



No, it was Putin and his dream of ruling the world once again as Super powere, which brought Russia to this state today. 
Putin never tried to bring real democracy in Russia, and making it corruption free. Without that, there was absolutely no chance that Russia ever got any significant likeness in the West.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine is a middle ages country with no electricity, no running water, no fuel. No money to repay loan.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570465449854263307


That’s coward!
Help is underway against Russia terror bombings.
Ukraine will get one of the most advanced air defense systems.


----------



## Wood




----------



## jhungary

Mista said:


> Thanks, that's quite informative.


no problem


----------



## Viet

G7 Meeting of trade minsters in Germany.

After China explicitly supports Russia war against Ukraine, the west now considers China as enemy. First step will be economically reducing dependence on China. Next step will be military confrontation.

Congrats Ccp.










G7-Minister: Hilfen für Ukraine und deutliche Worte an China


Die G7-Handelsminister planen einen größeren Aufbaufonds für die Ukraine. Ihre Handelsbeziehungen will die Gruppe künftig breiter und nachhaltiger gestalten. Gegenüber China kündigte Wirtschaftsminister Habeck eine "robustere Handelspolitik" an.




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## The SC

*On the way of Wagner towards Bakhmut, Ukraine counts losses*​


Spoiler: Graphic


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> Were we surprised when we saw our wing's JAGs got their BDUs and deployed to Desert Storm. After, we were told that DS was the most legalistic war 'ever' in history, meaning the allies had lawyers in places no one, especially our ME allies, never expected. But I thought the word 'ever' was an exaggeration back then and I was correct because today, there are lawyers down to levels you saw, whereas our lawyers were more at the strike package level.


JAG guys (or girls) were everywhere when I was deployed. You have 1 in TOC, 1 in HQC, 1 with Public Affair, 1 at Division, 1 at Brigade and 1 at Company, there were even a JAG moonlight as mess officer for whatever reason. You wonder where they get all these Lawyer from...

Anyway, most people don't know, or rather don't care, that we can't do a lot of stuff until JAG clears it. And if it backfires, it was the JAG that wears it. And there are no one in the field you hated more, because you always butthead with them because you always ended up in argument with them, you want to do stuff your way, and your way means you don't care about your enemy, and they want to do stuff within law and boundary...... There are no one I wanted to punch more than my division headquarter JAG, But you can't do it, because they will article 32 your a$$


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine, with millions of unemployed. They don't need a full mobilization to have sufficient man power. The new 3rd corps is a good example. With incentive of cash or even reward of plots of land in Ukraine, as well as a chance to be a hero which ups your chance of getting a nice lady, plenty of poor and unemployed folks sign up to join.


There you go with your useless population argument. USSR was 20x afghanistan and China was 10x Vietnam in 1979. Where did that land them? Nowhere.



Bengal71 said:


> Times has changed or not will be determined when the war is over, not now. Although I must say in WW2 the Russians were defending their homeland, so they had a motivation. Today they are invading, they should not theoretically have the same motivation. If they don't fight as hard as WW2, it's to do with the lack of motivation, not lack of fight in them.


Good point. Invaders are at a disadvantage. Happened in Afghansitan since 2001, before, and now here.

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## aviator_fan

SalarHaqq said:


> Six in 10 British Factories at Risk of Going Under as Bills Soar​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A worker walks between the production line at a bottling factory in Kegworth, UK. Photographer: Darren Staples/Bloomberg
> By Julian Harris
> September 3, 2022, 1:01 AM GMT+2
> 
> Soaring energy bills are threatening to put six in 10 British manufacturers out of business, according to a survey that lays bare the extent of the crisis facing the next prime minister.
> 
> MakeUK, the lobby group for UK factories, said that nearly half of manufacturers have experienced a jump in electricity bills of more than 100% in the past year.
> 
> “The current crisis is leaving businesses facing a stark choice,” the report said. “Cut production or shut up shop altogether if help does not come soon.”
> 
> The UK’s new prime minister will be announced on Monday, with Liz Truss expected to beat Rishi Sunak, her rival in the Conservative Party leadership race. The government is under intense pressure to announce a wider package of support to help consumers and businesses cope with an unprecedented surge in global energy costs.
> 
> Britain’s factory sector is already in decline, according to a purchasing managers’ index published by S&P Global this week. MakeUK’s survey said that 13% of factories now have reduced hours of operation or are avoiding peak periods, while 7% are halting production for longer stretches.
> 
> “Emergency action is needed by the new government,” said Stephen Phipson, MakeUK’s chief executive officer. “We are already lagging behind our global competitors.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Six in 10 British Factories at Risk of Going Under as Bills Soar
> 
> 
> Soaring energy bills are threatening to put six in 10 British manufacturers out of business, according to a survey that lays bare the extent of the crisis facing the next prime minister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


This is a Ukraine war thread. Not 'put every negative news in the world' thread. Just because you have news blockade from Russia (outside of the random twitter posts) doesn't mean 'no news is good news' .

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## 925boy

RoadAmerica said:


> Fake news once again, your 1 mil civilians has been proven to be false over and over


calling it fake news doesnt prove its fake, only proves you have low analytical understanding like Trump.

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## dBSPL

LOL

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Yup just like Ukraine. You ain't gonna face the bear direct okay. Its always proxy and what did Syria taught you. The Russians haven't even unleash total war, these are their ethnic cousins for gods sake. They won't use what they used in Syria until the last resort. If they did that, Ukraine is as good as gone, and I can tell you Putin is giving Ukraine alot of chances to reverse course The pain and suffering will be the Ukrainians, the one cheering are the dumbwits here thinking this is a game against good and evil. Numb numbs wake up, its better to let Ukraine lose than win. Russia will unleash their most destructive power. You think you are good guys, but cheering for the destruction of Ukraine is not ethical mate. Use some common sense, Russia can Never lose. They will just do a total destruction when they get cornered dumb fcks.


Still in dreamland: to not unleash they had to go to N. Korea and Iran. Where are they going to get what they need for full unleash. In a year, there will be no domestic air travel in Russia because the airliners will run out of parts.

I am not happy in Russia's misery that they brought on, but what milestone are they waiting for if they are ready to unleash?



Han Patriot said:


> Yup just like Ukraine. You ain't gonna face the bear direct okay. Its always proxy and what did Syria taught you. The Russians haven't even unleash total war, these are their ethnic cousins for gods sake. They won't use what they used in Syria until the last resort. If they did that, Ukraine is as good as gone, and I can tell you Putin is giving Ukraine alot of chances to reverse course The pain and suffering will be the Ukrainians, the one cheering are the dumbwits here thinking this is a game against good and evil. Numb numbs wake up, its better to let Ukraine lose than win. Russia will unleash their most destructive power. You think you are good guys, but cheering for the destruction of Ukraine is not ethical mate. Use some common sense, Russia can Never lose. They will just do a total destruction when they get cornered dumb fcks.


Still in dreamland: to not unleash they had to go to N. Korea and Iran. Where are they going to get what they need for full unleash. In a year, there will be no domestic air travel in Russia because the airliners will run out of parts.

I am not happy in Russia's misery that they brought on, but what milestone are they waiting for if they are ready to unleash?



Han Patriot said:


> The idiotic natard cheerleaders don't even understand that Russia have not even went total war. In total war, the Ukrainians would be razed to the ground. You think you will still have Kiev standing with politicians sending selfies and tweeting? These people here are delusional, pushing Russia to a corner will just cause catastrophe. I pray for the Ukrainians now matey. Let Ukraine agree to a deal not push for total war. As usual US will just cheer for world destruction. These retards want to reset the world by burning it to ashes. THEY ARE WOKE BUT NOT AWAKE.


Sure use child like language because you have run out points like Russians have run out of will to fight.

Russia is being very passionate by holding back or it would have razed it. What would have it razed by: pillows? Its getting artillery from North Korea.

Let me extend this logic:
1. USSR held back its best in Afghanistan
2. Hitler held off his best at D-Day
3. Egypt / Jordan held of its best against Israel in 1967.
4. US held its best back in Vietnam.

Nobody has in war has the luxury to be holding the best back while you are being humiliating in the world.

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## PakFactor

dBSPL said:


> LOL



I would slap the clown that decided to invite Erdogan.


----------



## dBSPL

Another one




Except for Raisi and Erdogan, everyone looks drunk.





PakFactor said:


> I would slap the clown that decided to invite Erdogan.


Putin's special guest. And it is stated by Russian sources that there is an official invitation to the SCO. The Uzbek president is also like Erdogan's buddy. Aliyev is like his own brother. The guy sits almost like a landlord, you talk about slapping.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> G7 Meeting of trade minsters in Germany.
> 
> After China explicitly supports Russia war against Ukraine, the west now considers China as enemy. First step will be economically reducing dependence on China. Next step will be military confrontation.
> 
> Congrats Ccp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G7-Minister: Hilfen für Ukraine und deutliche Worte an China
> 
> 
> Die G7-Handelsminister planen einen größeren Aufbaufonds für die Ukraine. Ihre Handelsbeziehungen will die Gruppe künftig breiter und nachhaltiger gestalten. Gegenüber China kündigte Wirtschaftsminister Habeck eine "robustere Handelspolitik" an.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de


I really doubt China is stupid enough to support Russia both economically and militarily,,,

Economically, China must have seen how EU ended up by overdependent on Russian energy products. They won't replicate, which mean there are no way China can buy at the level the EU had even if they want to help. 

Military, there are no way people won't know if China transfer Military hardware to Russia, parts and spare yes, you can still do it under the table, but whole product will get caught on immediately. China cannot afford the sanction from the West. 

This is more or less along the line of lip service. I think underneath Xi would very much like Putin to take EU down with Russia, that's the best outcome for them. Eliminate one major competitor and gain a vassal.

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## dBSPL

Ok it is last one, sorry for spamming. But everyone looks very close to eachother

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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> I really doubt China is stupid enough to support Russia both economically and militarily,,,
> 
> Economically, China must have seen how EU ended up by overdependent on Russian energy products. They won't replicate, which mean there are no way China can buy at the level the EU had even if they want to help.
> 
> Military, there are no way people won't know if China transfer Military hardware to Russia, parts and spare yes, you can still do it under the table, but whole product will get caught on immediately. China cannot afford the sanction from the West.
> 
> This is more or less along the line of lip service. I think underneath Xi would very much like Putin to take EU down with Russia, that's the best outcome for them. Eliminate one major competitor and gain a vassal.



The CCP wouldn't even come close to that option. It's just lip service. At worst, it'll make SCO look toothless.



dBSPL said:


> Ok it is last one, sorry for spamming. But everyone looks very close to eachother



There's our Prime Minister in the middle, a clueless rat among cats.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570505465351778305


----------



## The SC




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570497921015246848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570487357119565825


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


>


Russian telegram channels fabricating stories about ukrainian assaults theyve repelled. Its ridiculous. Why the hell would ukrainian forces try to build a bridgehead on a mostly deserted peninsula. They might aswell try to liberate southern Ukraine from Snake Island.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570486370443079681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570473768400855044


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570499560287637506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570476201260507137

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570466293903499277


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## MeFishToo

Source (War in Ukraine)
Ukraine regrouping, Russia digging in. Ukraine outnumber Russia and has the initiative. Only russian offensive capabilities are Wagner mercenaries, but assaults are pointless as it makes the retreat even longer.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Source (War in Ukraine)
> Ukraine regrouping, Russia digging in. Ukraine outnumber Russia and has the initiative. Only russian offensive capabilities are Wagner mercenaries, but assaults are pointless as it makes the retreat even long.
> View attachment 879414
> View attachment 879415
> 
> View attachment 879411



Ukrainians compared to Russians is like Manchus compared to Han. On paper, Han had 10 times the population of Manchus. In reality, Manchus had more soldiers than Han. That's why Manchus conquered Hans and founded Qing dynasty.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570521952800112641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570520792278142979

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570440691611729921


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570464374892138497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570480175019851777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570446686190698499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570439380652920838


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570503691316367362
Another weapons package on the way

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570503691316367362
> Another weapons package on the way



Too little. Should be 600 billion.


----------



## PakAlp

313ghazi said:


> This war has not turned out as I expected. The incompetence and corruption of the Russian military has been exposed wholesale.



I am against wars but a big shock indeed. Russian planning, key decisions, tactics, equipment, air force is a big disappointment. The least they should have done is have total air superiority over Ukraine. Ukrainian tanks, artillery, SAM, Radars, aircrafts should have been annihilated, people are talking about Himars but they should have been identified and destroyed by the Russian airforce. Where are the 4++++ generation jets? 🤔 Where are the cutting edge technology Putin talks about?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570325462764634112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570497190979850240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570465974129725443

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570465984389185538


----------



## PakAlp

Broccoli said:


> Funniest thing about this whole thing is that Russia fanboys still believe that Russia has the second best military.
> 
> Russian air force hasn't managed to achieve air dominance in seven months against an opponent whats right next their country and is numerically much weaker.



Makes perfect sense. Seems like they don't have the technology anymore, the jets look great on paper only. Air dominance is the least they should have done.

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## PakAlp

gambit said:


> I commented on the VKS months earlier. Use keywords search 'airborne artillery' to see why I think the VKS essentially failed in Ukraine. As far as the Ukrainian Air Force goes, they are too numerically inferior in proportionate to the entire Russian Army campaign to matter. So given the limited war doctrine for the Russian Air Force and few numbers of the Ukrainian Air Force, this war is essentially a ground war, we Air Force guys are nearly useless. See @jhungary for details on the ground war.











Ukraine has struck more than 400 Russian targets with HIMARS - U.S. top general


Ukraine has struck over 400 Russian targets with U.S.-supplied HIMARS rocket systems, General Mark Milley, the Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Thursday.




www.reuters.com













How HIMARS launchers are shifting momentum in Ukraine's fight against Russia


Since the U.S. provided Ukraine with 16 High-Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, the launchers are changing the face of battle, becoming a key weapon in Ukraine's counteroffensive against invading Russian forces.




www.cbsnews.com





I understand your point but can't the Russian airforce/drones target and destroy the mighty Himars. If the Russian airforce controlled the skies they would know where the Himars are coming from and chase and destroy them.


----------



## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> calling it fake news doesnt prove its fake, only proves you have low analytical understanding like Trump.


Go back a few pages where it was proven false for the umpteenth time.
Get sad


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570437011605000193


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Too little. Should be 600 billion.


Turn you brain on little boy 👦


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570534639303028737
Russian losses at 53 today. That’s 6,100 for the war

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570525375221956611

Endless Russian war crimes

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## Reashot Xigwin

Oh look I'm right once again

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570517067316736000

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## Reashot Xigwin

The numbers of bodies found in mass graves are expected to rise to 1000. Children also included

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## Han Patriot

...


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## Han Patriot

Broccoli said:


> Ukraine still has their S-300's, BUK's, and probably NASAMS what can all reach altitude of where Russian strategic bombers fly. Wouldn't be good look for Russia if their bombers started dropping from skies.


Well, nobody knows what they have. They might have something but if this war drags on, it is not good for Ukraine. Russia is still intact, people always forget this.


----------



## F-22Raptor

New $600M weapons package

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## Han Patriot

PakFactor said:


> He's not upping any intensity because he has nothing left. You do realize the sanctions crippled Russia's defense manufacturing. Corruption and nepotism have left the Russian Armed Forces hollow, and they are fighting with equipment dating back to the '70s and 1980s on a 21st Century battlefield. Their logistics are practically non-existent, and nowhere have they stopped the inflow of weapons from the Western Ukrainian border in the last couple of months.
> 
> I suggest you read the book On War by Carl Van Clausewitz on what total war is and how conflict should be. I fear the Chinese if they clash with Russian thinking, any more delay on taking Taiwan, you will not be able to touch it; consider Ukraine a test bed for what NATO & Co. can do and will do.
> 
> The worst part about Russia & China's last 20 years is that you failed to bleed the West in the conflict hot zones in Africa and the Middle East. Just as the West called certain groups friends and armed them, you could have played the same playbook.
> 
> China thought of a peaceful rise with no war; there was no such thing. You have a competent army if the nation is at war.


Well, that's for us to find out and my bet is he isn't as dumb as the Western media is describing him to be. We are talking about an ex KGB here man against a comedian. Logic dictates outcomes not emotions. And right now alot of cheerleading woke boys here are self pleasuring themselves. In a real war, people die, people suffer, this is not a game like CS. How many woke boys died in Ukraine thinking its some sort of game? Gosh, when will these woke boy be awakened.



RoadAmerica said:


> Can we get this mental midget banned finally?


Normally, the freedom boys would ban dissent when they can't debate anymore.



aviator_fan said:


> Still in dreamland: to not unleash they had to go to N. Korea and Iran. Where are they going to get what they need for full unleash. In a year, there will be no domestic air travel in Russia because the airliners will run out of parts.
> 
> I am not happy in Russia's misery that they brought on, but what milestone are they waiting for if they are ready to unleash?
> 
> 
> Still in dreamland: to not unleash they had to go to N. Korea and Iran. Where are they going to get what they need for full unleash. In a year, there will be no domestic air travel in Russia because the airliners will run out of parts.
> 
> I am not happy in Russia's misery that they brought on, but what milestone are they waiting for if they are ready to unleash?
> 
> 
> Sure use child like language because you have run out points like Russians have run out of will to fight.
> 
> Russia is being very passionate by holding back or it would have razed it. What would have it razed by: pillows? Its getting artillery from North Korea.
> 
> Let me extend this logic:
> 1. USSR held back its best in Afghanistan
> 2. Hitler held off his best at D-Day
> 3. Egypt / Jordan held of its best against Israel in 1967.
> 4. US held its best back in Vietnam.
> 
> Nobody has in war has the luxury to be holding the best back while you are being humiliating in the world.


My friend, chill, we will know whether I am right. My bet is this will go on for a longggg time with Russia grinding Ukraine into a meatball. Please wake up to the fact that Russia is intact and Ukriane is getting destroyed. Lolol

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## jhungary

Han Patriot said:


> Hahahahahahahah. (snipped) Hahahaahahah


I am sorry, but I can't really take you seriously with all these hahaha and lololol and all the numb numb and dumb dumb, and personal insult, May I ask you how old are you? Not even my 12 years old cousin talks or write like that. And he is an "Inspired rapper", go figure. This show you are not even mature enough to hold your dinner, let alone being handled in a forum seriously.

I mean, I used to be in the military, and I don't even swear like that.

On the other hand, It's not hard to understand there are place ship can't go, like a landlocked country like Switzerland or Central Australia, which unless you truck all the LNG in bottle constantly, which cost a lot more than just build a pressurized pipeline to run from one end to another. Otherwise you are saying place like Switzerland do not use LNG at all, or they have them truck them in in bottle every time from Germany. It take 25kpa/4psi to condense Gas to LNG, there are high pressure pipeline that can handle more pressure than that.

I am not interested at all to talk to immature little brat here, I am going to report your post and ignore you from now on,

@waz @LeGenD can you please look at how this poster and his history on how to "express" his opinion. He basically just insults everyone.

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## PakFactor

Han Patriot said:


> Well, that's for us to find out and my bet is he isn't as dumb as the Western media is describing him to be. We are talking about an ex KGB here man against a comedian. Logic dictates outcomes not emotions. And right now alot of cheerleading woke boys here are self pleasuring themselves. In a real war, people die, people suffer, this is not a game like CS. How many woke boys died in Ukraine thinking its some sort of game? Gosh, when will these woke boy be awakened.
> 
> 
> Normally, the freedom boys would ban dissent when they can't debate anymore.
> 
> 
> My friend, chill, we will know whether I am right. My bet is this will go on for a longggg time with Russia grinding Ukraine into a meatball. Please wake up to the fact that Russia is intact and Ukriane is getting destroyed. Lolol



Right now, he's getting his butt handed to him by a comedian.

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## Han Patriot

PakFactor said:


> Right now, he's getting his butt handed to him by a comedian.


Thats what most fans like to believe, it's a war, in a war, you win and lose some battles, what's important is the outcome, a few months ago, Russia was defeated when then redeployed to the South and East, but funny how they are now holding much more strategic land than before. Ukraine can't even export shit now genius. Common sense tells you a comedian has a lower chance against a veteran KGB with decades of experience. But well, woke boys have their fantasies.



jhungary said:


> I am sorry, but I can't really take you seriously with all these hahaha and lololol and all the numb numb and dumb dumb, and personal insult, May I ask you how old are you? Not even my 12 years old cousin talks or write like that. And he is an "Inspired rapper", go figure. This show you are not even mature enough to hold your dinner, let alone being handled in a forum seriously.
> 
> I mean, I used to be in the military, and I don't even talk like that.
> 
> On the other hand, It's not hard to understand there are place ship can't go, like a landlocked country like Switzerland or Central Australia, which unless you truck all the LNG in bottle constantly, which cost a lot more than just build a pressurized pipeline to run from one end to another. Otherwise you are saying place like Switzerland do not use LNG at all, or they have them truck them in in bottle every time from Germany. It take 25kpa/4psi to condense Gas to LNG, there are high pressure pipeline that can handle more pressure than that.
> 
> I am not interested at all to talk to immature little brat here, I am going to report your post and ignore you from now on,
> 
> @waz @LeGenD can you please look at how this poster "express" his opinion. He basically just insult everyone.


Okay you type so much and yet you can't admit you know jackshit Mr LNG in a pipe. Hahahha. Sure ban me when it's so obvious you were ignorant. I don't mind getting banned after exposing you as an imbecile. Consider my sacrifice as social justice against stupidity. Lol

25 kpa is 0.25 bar.....do you know what is 0.25 bar? Ahahhahahahahahahahaahahahhaahhahahahahahaahahahah. 25 kpa to compress gas to 1/600 of their original volume and that is at cryogenic temperatures. Fck, did you fail science? Lololol. Do you know why they don't use pipes to transport LNG? Because if they can't maintain - 160 for hundreds of km of pipes the pipe will explode with pressure rising to 600x their original pressure. Understand?


_The process begins with the pre-treatment of a feedstock of natural gas entering the system to remove impurities such as H2S, CO2, H2O, mercury and higher-chained hydrocarbons. Feedstock gas then enters the liquefaction unit where it is cooled to between -145 °C and -163 °C[9] Although the type or number of heating cycles and/or refrigerants used may vary based on the technology, the basic process involves circulating the gas through aluminum tube coils and exposure to a compressed refrigerant.[9] As the refrigerant is vaporized, the heat transfer causes the gas in the coils to cool.[9] The LNG is then stored in a specialized double-walled insulated tank at atmospheric pressure ready to be transported to its final destination.[9]

Most domestic LNG is transported by land via truck/trailer designed for cryogenic temperatures.[9] These units consist of an internal steel or aluminum compartment and an external carbon or steel compartment with a vacuum system in between to reduce the amount of heat transfer.[9] Once on site, the LNG must be stored in vacuum insulated or flat bottom storage tanks.[9] When ready for distribution, the LNG enters a regasification facility where it is pumped into a vaporizer and heated back into gaseous form.[9] The gas then enters the pipeline distribution system and is delivered to the end-user.__[9]_

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## aviator_fan

Zarvan said:


> Russia except for nukes unleashed everything they got. It's Ukrainians who fought back which even USA and NATO thought won't happen


NATO never thought Russians would be so incompetent and never believed Ukrainian would push back the initial on-slaught given in Afghanistan the Govt gave up Kabul to Taliban on motorcycles.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

I think the strikes on critical infrastructure is going to turn the tide back in Russia's favor. The loss of population is tremendous. Keep in mind Ukraine had less than 10 million people in the middle ages. Now that Ukraine's living standard is back to middle ages level, we can expect Ukraine's population to nose dive from here on out back to less than 10 million people within a few years as massive number of people in Ukraine either flee to the west as refugees or die from disease and high infant mortality from drinking untreated water.


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## jhungary

RoadAmerica said:


> Can we get this mental midget banned finally?


Just report mr 10 years old Han Job and move on. 

I mean no point dealing with a child who can't even form sentences without insulting someone.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> NATO never thought Russians would be so incompetent and never believed Ukrainian would push back the initial on-slaught given in Afghanistan the Govt gave up Kabul to Taliban on motorcycles.



"_Russia is never as strong as she looks_; Russia is never as weak as she looks." (Attributed to multiple individuals, including Winston Churchill

It depends on what you compare Russia to. Compare to China Russia is weak as hell. Compared to Sweden Russia is quite powerful.


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## Reashot Xigwin

PakFactor said:


> Right now, he's getting his butt handed to him by a comedian.


Fun fact: In "servant of the people" the series he played in before he becomes president. He ask historical figures greater than himself from all over the world for help with leading the country. Now if they did season 4 he might summon his real world self for help. 


Han Patriot said:


> Thats what most fans like to believe, it's a war, in a war, you win and lose some battles, what's important is the outcome, a few months ago, Russia was defeated when then redeployed to the South and East, but funny how they are now holding much more strategic land than before. Ukraine can't even export shit now genius. Common sense tells you a comedian has a lower chance against a veteran KGB with decades of experience. But well, lol boys have their fantasies.


How long has it been 6 months? The US led Coalition took 3 months to took over the entirety of Iraq. 1 hours to completely destroy her airforce, 1 week to take out her entire ground vehicles and they do it 1000 of miles away.

Meanwhile Russia still haven't taken out Ukraine yet. Even being repelled in multiple locations.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The decline in life expectancy and lack of healthcare is depopulating Ukraine back to middle ages.


This is the sort of advice from people like you but with real jobs close to Putin that gave him the phantom image of how Russia would prevail instead of being the humiliation of the 21st century: a near super power could not even prevail over an insignificant neighbor. Where do you get this information from? Do you go to more than one source of information or just follow Twitter feed

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

4 TV guided missiles attacking a pontoon. Helicopter launched. Range is not known but rumor say 14 to 25 km. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570467001616969728


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## Reashot Xigwin

aviator_fan said:


> NATO never thought Russians would be so incompetent and never believed Ukrainian would push back the initial on-slaught given in Afghanistan the Govt gave up Kabul to Taliban on motorcycles.


No Joke some veterans from Desert Strom I spoke on other forums are willing to admit that Saddam's Iraqi army are more competent than the Russian armed forces.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> This is the sort of advice from people like you but with real jobs close to Putin that gave him the phantom image of how Russia would prevail instead of being the humiliation of the 21st century: a near super power could not even prevail over an insignificant neighbor. Where do you get this information from? Do you go to more than one source of information or just follow Twitter feed



Ukraine used to be the 2nd most powerful country in USSR after Russia. When USSR broke up in 1991 Ukraine had more than a third of Russia's population, 51 million compared to 148 million. Even today Russia has barely 4 times the population of Ukraine. 147 million compared to 36 million.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has population growth since 2010. It's almost 150 million by now.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570461001572823045
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570454494332481539


Again you lie. Even Tass (the ultimate lying moutpiece for Putin) admits population decline. It just indicates a five times reduction but still a decline. 



https://tass.com/society/1505627



And for a more realistic view of the world consult other sources: population decline is to 146M on way to 130M by 2050. So they are in the same s**(hole of population decline as China and most of the rest of the world

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Again you lie. Even Tass (the ultimate lying moutpiece for Putin) admits population decline. It just indicates a five times reduction but still a decline.
> 
> https://tass.com/society/1505627
> And for a more realistic view of the world consult other sources: population decline is to 146M on way to 130M by 2050. So they are in the same s**(hole of population decline as China and most of the rest of the world



The US has low birth rate. The US has demographic decline even though immigration from Mexico prevents numerical decline. The US is weakening demographically.


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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine used to be the 2nd most powerful country in USSR after Russia. When USSR broke up in 1991 Ukraine had more than a third of Russia's population, 51 million compared to 148 million. Today today Russia has barely 4 times the population of Ukraine. 147 million compared to 36 million.


China was 20x vietnam's population in 1979 and got its border up the butt. USSR was 20x Afghanistan. You bring completely illogical points and it kills your credibility when you actually talk about Ukraine war, which is what this thread is.

If 20x population superiority didnt make a difference, why will a pathetic 4x be different. A 4x population of cowards will desert as they have aptly shown.

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Fun fact: In "servant of the people" the series he played in before he becomes president. He ask historical figures greater than himself from all over the world for help with leading the country. Now if they did season 4 he might summon his real world self for help.
> 
> How long has it been 6 months? The US led Coalition took 3 months to took over the entirety of Iraq. 1 hours to completely destroy her airforce, 1 week to take out her entire ground vehicles and they do it 1000 of miles away.
> 
> Meanwhile Russia still haven't taken out Ukraine yet. Even being repelled in multiple locations.


And what happened in the end


Reashot Xigwin said:


> Fun fact: In "servant of the people" the series he played in before he becomes president. He ask historical figures greater than himself from all over the world for help with leading the country. Now if they did season 4 he might summon his real world self for help.
> 
> How long has it been 6 months? The US led Coalition took 3 months to took over the entirety of Iraq. 1 hours to completely destroy her airforce, 1 week to take out her entire ground vehicles and they do it 1000 of miles away.
> 
> Meanwhile Russia still haven't taken out Ukraine yet. Even being repelled in multiple locations.


Yup carpet bombing Iraq to stone age.... That's what I was saying, Russia needs to put emotions aside and doing it the American way.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukrainians compared to Russians is like Manchus compared to Han. On paper, Han had 10 times the population of Manchus. In reality, Manchus had more soldiers than Han. That's why Manchus conquered Hans and founded Qing dynasty.


Or just go the Israeli Arab comparison of population mismatch.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> China was 20x vietnam's population in 1979 and got its border up the butt. USSR was 20x Afghanistan. You bring completely illogical points and it kills your credibility when you actually talk about Ukraine war, which is what this thread is.
> 
> If 20x population superiority didnt make a difference, why will a pathetic 4x be different. A 4x population of cowards will desert as they have aptly shown.



Population makes a difference. In WW2 the Allies USSR + US + UK out numbered the Axis Germany + Italy + Japan and therefore won. In the US civil war the North outnumbered the South and therefore won.



aviator_fan said:


> Or just go the Israeli Arab comparison of population mismatch.



Back then Syria only had 4 million people, not a big advantage compared to Israel.


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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Hahahahahahahah. So means you can't answer it right? Dumbfck, that is a spur line for GAS coming from another Shell gas plant, to be liquefied and exported at Gladstone. Understand numb numb, so next time, if you don't know shit, then don't talk so much, Mr LNG.
> 
> Since when did I say Brent price is the only reason why oil price is high? I told you the war had an effect on Oil and Gas prices. Why do you think US is releasing their strategic reserves to stabilise prices? Look at the gas prices now, its how much higher genius? But no, boy genius like you thinks it does not effect oil and gas prices at all. Mr trader US vet Vietnamnese mummy mexican daddy staying in Australia speaking in Hongkie accent. Hahahaahahah


Since you are all knowing: know this, gas price is about same as what it was before the invasion. There are almost 2 dozen times strategic reserves have been released, way before Putin got his butt kicked.









WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME A PRESIDENT RELEASED OIL FROM THE STRATEGIC RESERVE?


When was the last time a President released oil from the strategic reserve?




www.drslate.com





This is about as unusual as eating stomach medicine after bad takeout food. Don't think its some important milestone



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> "_Russia is never as strong as she looks_; Russia is never as weak as she looks." (Attributed to multiple individuals, including Winston Churchill
> 
> It depends on what you compare Russia to. Compare to China Russia is weak as hell. Compared to Sweden Russia is quite powerful.


There is absolute strength and then there is the strength you project when you have become relatively hollow.

Britain had absolute strength for 100s of years and colonised the world. Post WWII it projected an air of power through smart diplomacy and shrewdness (the GCC countries were still subsurvient till the 70s as protectorates). Ultimately Falklands proved that while it took it, what an extreme effort it took and its sole power projection was over. Putin should have used his KGB shrewdness to project the image and maniupulate vs. let the rot be exposed the way it has.



jhungary said:


> Just report mr 10 years old Han Job and move on.
> 
> I mean no point dealing with a child who can't even form sentences without insulting someone.


Hun Stuck in his parents apartment venting frustration when he can't string two coherent thoughts together. Instead its a bunch of 'hahahas' and fbombs. Imagine if this guy was a lawyer (assuming he lives in a place that has a court of law and lawyers)

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> Since you are all knowing: know this, gas price is about same as what it was before the invasion. There are almost 2 dozen times strategic reserves have been released, way before Putin got his butt kicked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME A PRESIDENT RELEASED OIL FROM THE STRATEGIC RESERVE?
> 
> 
> When was the last time a President released oil from the strategic reserve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.drslate.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is about as unusual as eating stomach medicine after bad takeout food. Don't think its some important milestone


lol I still remember he keep saying THIS WAR was the only reason why Brent is $130 a barrel. And then I told him several pundit (like JP Morgan) have in 2021 predicted gas is going to hit $150 in 2022 and asked him why do you think they think it will be $150 by 2022 or 2023, and asked him do he knows what dictate the world crude oil and gas price, I am still waiting on his answer, well, I have a lot of lololol and hahaha and dumb numb, and many different way to spell the f word, but no answer.....

Now Brent Crude is 93 and local gas station is selling gas for 145c/liter...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Again you lie. Even Tass (the ultimate lying moutpiece for Putin) admits population decline. It just indicates a five times reduction but still a decline.
> 
> https://tass.com/society/1505627
> And for a more realistic view of the world consult other sources: population decline is to 146M on way to 130M by 2050. So they are in the same s**(hole of population decline as China and most of the rest of the world



Last month Putin restored the reward system for women who give birth to 10 kids. Russia's birth rate is rising again as it did during Soviet era. Russia has population growth because of the reward system for women who give birth to 10 kids.









Russia is offering a hero’s medal and $16,000 to women who have 10 kids


Facing a declining and ageing population, Russia has revived a Soviet-era honor and introduced a cash reward for women who give birth to and raise 10 kids.




www.cnbc.com


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## RoadAmerica

Han Patriot said:


> And what happened in the end
> 
> Yup carpet bombing Iraq to stone age.... That's what I was saying, Russia needs to put emotions aside and doing it the American way.


They didn’t carpet bomb Iraq hand job



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Last month Putin restored the reward system for women who give birth to 10 kids. Russia's birth rate is rising again as it did during Soviet era. Russia has population growth because of the reward system for women who give birth to 10 kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is offering a hero’s medal and $16,000 to women who have 10 kids
> 
> 
> Facing a declining and ageing population, Russia has revived a Soviet-era honor and introduced a cash reward for women who give birth to and raise 10 kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


More fake news hand job

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## Han Patriot

RoadAmerica said:


> They didn’t carpet bomb Iraq hand job
> 
> 
> More fake news hand job


Okay, Iraq was defneitely intact. Civilian infrastructure was not destroyed at all, just cruise missiles all the way right? =)

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## RoadAmerica

Han Patriot said:


> Okay, Iraq was defneitely intact. Civilian infrastructure was not destroyed at all, just cruise missiles all the way right? =)


I can’t even debate you anymore. God you’re dumb. Go jerk off

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## PakFactor

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Fun fact: In "servant of the people" the series he played in before he becomes president. He ask historical figures greater than himself from all over the world for help with leading the country. Now if they did season 4 he might summon his real world self for help.
> 
> How long has it been 6 months? The US led Coalition took 3 months to took over the entirety of Iraq. 1 hours to completely destroy her airforce, 1 week to take out her entire ground vehicles and they do it 1000 of miles away.
> 
> Meanwhile Russia still haven't taken out Ukraine yet. Even being repelled in multiple locations.



Lol. He might even regret running for the presidency, let alone a season 4.

The sad part is, that Russia is next door, while in Iraq, they came from all over. 

I come from a military/business family, and when I speak to relatives they are just as shocked at the incompetence the Russians have displayed. As for Putin, what they tell me, there is a saying in Pakistan transliterated: _he should sink himself in water and kill himself out of shame._

The image that Russia had as a 2nd great power to counter US is completely Gone. This does three things according to family in the military:

1) It Emboldens the US even more and polishes its arrogance.

2) Full focus on China, knowing the Europeans can handle the Russians and keep mouth balling them within a specific geographic region.

3) Taiwan is where the US intends to kill China, and the Chinese dragging their time out isn’t going to work in their favor.

The geopolitical landscape will change in the coming decades, and we might see more confrontations. 

But they cautioned that pushing the wounded bear into the corner can be equally deadly. However, before the West backs off they'll do enough damage it'll never rise again.


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## PakFactor

aviator_fan said:


> Or just go the Israeli Arab comparison of population mismatch.



Let's not kill the Russians completely out of shame with that comparison. Lol. 

They wouldn't be able to handle it.


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## monitor

The Financial Times take on todays meeting between Russia's Putin and China's Xi

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## A.P. Richelieu

925boy said:


> calling it fake news doesnt prove its fake, only proves you have low analytical understanding like Trump.


Your failure to back up your claims do prove they are fake news.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> JAG guys (or girls) were everywhere when I was deployed. You have 1 in TOC, 1 in HQC, 1 with Public Affair, 1 at Division, 1 at Brigade and 1 at Company, there were even a JAG moonlight as mess officer for whatever reason. You wonder where they get all these Lawyer from...
> 
> Anyway, most people don't know, or rather don't care, that we can't do a lot of stuff until JAG clears it. And if it backfires, it was the JAG that wears it. And there are no one in the field you hated more, because you always butthead with them because you always ended up in argument with them, you want to do stuff your way, and your way means you don't care about your enemy, and they want to do stuff within law and boundary...... There are no one I wanted to punch more than my division headquarter JAG, But you can't do it, because they will article 32 your a$$



Interesting, so were the JAG guys out there in the field with you taking fire? And while taking fire they were saying, had dont kill the enemy this way, let's kill them this way?


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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> And what happened in the end
> 
> Yup carpet bombing Iraq to stone age.... That's what I was saying, Russia needs to put emotions aside and doing it the American way.



The Coalition won. The CCP higher up even suffered mental breakdown from it. Seeing Chinese trained & armed iraqi get pummeled so easily. 

LOL Russia already bombed children, maternity hospitals they mostly targeted civilians infrastructures & committed GENOCIDE. And it's not collateral damage mind you the Rusky actually targeted them on purpose. Russia can't do jack!

There is only 1 superpower in the world.

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## Reashot Xigwin

RoadAmerica said:


> I can’t even debate you anymore. God you’re dumb. Go jerk off


LOL the russian right now only destroy civilian infrastructures. Not just in Ukraine but in Syria. I mean just look at the country. 









Russian military intervention in the Syrian civil war - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Also shooting up hospitals & church in Africa.

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## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> I can’t even debate you anymore. God you’re dumb. Go jerk off



That is what you say after every argument you lose.

Russians will bounce back. This war isn't ending anytime soon.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Fun fact: In "servant of the people" the series he played in before he becomes president. He ask historical figures greater than himself from all over the world for help with leading the country. Now if they did season 4 he might summon his real world self for help.
> 
> How long has it been 6 months? The US led Coalition took 3 months to took over the entirety of Iraq. 1 hours to completely destroy her airforce, 1 week to take out her entire ground vehicles and they do it 1000 of miles away.
> 
> Meanwhile Russia still haven't taken out Ukraine yet. Even being repelled in multiple locations.



Russia isn't fighting Ukraine. Russia is fighting the US/NATO bulwark in Ukraine. In case you forgot, US/NATO are assisting Ukraine militarily and economically to counter Russia. Making simplistic claims like Russia hasn't been able to take out Ukraine is juvenile.

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## aviator_fan

jhungary said:


> lol I still remember he keep saying THIS WAR was the only reason why Brent is $130 a barrel. And then I told him several pundit (like JP Morgan) have in 2021 predicted gas is going to hit $150 in 2022 and asked him why do you think they think it will be $150 by 2022 or 2023, and asked him do he knows what dictate the world crude oil and gas price, I am still waiting on his answer, well, I have a lot of lololol and hahaha and dumb numb, and many different way to spell the f word, but no answer.....
> 
> Now Brent Crude is 93 and local gas station is selling gas for 145c/liter...


Mr. Patriot: in 2008, oil price (when Putin was still in power but hadn't become an idiot yet) oil had shot up to $138. Inflation adjusted $190. Way more than what this war has predicted it. World went through it just fine. So stop making oil price as an indicator of Putin's wisdom.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> That is what you say after every argument you lose.
> 
> Russians will bounce back. This war isn't ending anytime soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia isn't fighting Ukraine. Russia is fighting the US/NATO bulwark in Ukraine.



Yes Russia should "bounce back." There's still not enough dead russians to push Russia into another humiliating peace treaty.

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Yes Russia should "bounce back." There's still not enough dead russians to push Russia into another humiliating peace treaty.



Dude. The war is ongoing. Don't make premature claims. Losses and gains are part of every war. The opposing side also had many devestating losses.

Don't get angry if people are unwilling to buy your Western driven propaganda.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Population makes a difference. In WW2 the Allies USSR + US + UK out numbered the Axis Germany + Italy + Japan and therefore won. In the US civil war the North outnumbered the South and therefore won.
> 
> 
> 
> Back then Syria only had 4 million people, not a big advantage compared to Israel.


See the map and read the history of Arab Israeli wars of 1948, 1967, and 1973. Once you have gotten past the narrow field of view you have (not sure because if its because of who you are or kind of rote learning education you got), you will realize that there were 4 countries that fought the war and had a clear population advantage. 

And if you read about the Civil War, it was the industrial strength and ability to produce metal that prevailed. Same in WWII. Population was the winner in the savage days of horses and donkeys. Is that what you think this war is?

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Interesting, so were the JAG guys out there in the field with you taking fire? And while taking fire they were saying, had dont kill the enemy this way, let's kill them this way?


Well, at Platoon level, no, unless your mission is really sensitive and they attached a JAG on your platoon, but at Company level, yes.

When you are in a platoon fighting off your war individually, you have a lot of latitude on a lot of stuff, where you go, where you put your troop and stuff like that, calling support is NOT one of them. When you call support mission, you raise Company HQ, and they divert it to their FAC (Forward Artillery Control) if you are requesting tube support, and JTAC if you want an air support. So if I want, say 155mm target a certain area, in a platoon leader position, I can't do that, I have to call my CO and his Company HQ and ask for it, that's where the leadership element in a platoon located, CO, XO, First Sgt, RTO and Medic it also has the support element which they will have 1 or 2 FAC and a JTAC team on standby.

My CO will then ask the FAC or JTAC to get on the fire mission, you don't need to go thru your CO every time, sometimes you can talk directly to the FAC or JTAC if your situation is urgent, no point going back and forth relaying message with the RTO, they can just pick up the phone (well the PRC equipment) themselves. Say if the call sign of the FAC is heavy metal, you ask over the net and say "I want to talk to Heavy Metal actual" that means I want to talk to the FAC, instead of the RTO.

But if your platoon size mission is sensitive enough, say you are about to capture a top tier enemy target, then yes, they will attach a FAC or JTAC team to your platoon and it will be with the platoon leader and platoon sergeant and so on, and if you are taking hit, they took hit with you.

But if you are at Company and your company HQ is under attack, then yes, there are always FAC and JTAC officer with a company, and they will be in the Boonie like the rest of us.

And I know it's strange, but yes, even under fire with you, they will still deny your request on your target, even if they too are under fire..

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Last month Putin restored the reward system for women who give birth to 10 kids. Russia's birth rate is rising again as it did during Soviet era. Russia has population growth because of the reward system for women who give birth to 10 kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is offering a hero’s medal and $16,000 to women who have 10 kids
> 
> 
> Facing a declining and ageing population, Russia has revived a Soviet-era honor and introduced a cash reward for women who give birth to and raise 10 kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


Because Russian women will listen to Putin. Your Chinese women haven't listened to Xi and neither have those in European countries but you think Putin , whose troops don't listen to him, will convince the mothers. 

Also, genius, if the birth rate improves, that could mean (if somehow true and not out of fake Russian press) , it means a fertility rate goes from 1.6 to 1.8. An improvement in birth rate has to take the fertility rate to past 2.1 for population to maintain itself. Just an improvement in birth rate by itself can only reduce the pace of population decline.

Neither you or I know the truth since we don't have to hospital records in Russia, so stop distracting this thread and go exercise some freedom and create a new one.

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## Dalit

It is an enormous joy to see these US/NATO trolls spend every minute of the day arguing like crazy in this topic. Do these people even have a job I wonder...

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> That is what you say after every argument you lose.
> 
> Russians will bounce back. This war isn't ending anytime soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia isn't fighting Ukraine. Russia is fighting the US/NATO bulwark in Ukraine. In case you forgot, US/NATO are assisting Ukraine militarily and economically to counter Russia. Making simplistic claims like Russia hasn't been able to take out Ukraine is juvenile.


So by this logic, this would only be a fair war if everybody stayed out and Ukraine alone fought it. You are making Russians sound like pathetic imbecilles if you think this is how they thought this war was going to be fought.

For years they have been building their fortress economy, in theory spending on defence (but corrupt system stole most of it) and influencing via social media public opinion around the world. They were not idiots enough to believe that this would be a war that Ukraine alone will fight.

What they undersestimated is how Ukrainians hated them and how NATO would come together

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> Hun Stuck in his parents apartment venting frustration when he can't string two coherent thoughts together. Instead its a bunch of 'hahahas' and fbombs. Imagine if this guy was a lawyer (assuming he lives in a place that has a court of law and lawyers)


lol, funny you mention it, my wife is a lawyer, and I know some of her friend who swear like a lumberjack.

It's one thing to put a Fbomb in your sentence, I can still make sense if I say F this in the end (Which I did a lot back when I was in the Army) But Mr Han Job here is different, his entire sentence is hahahah lolololol and F bomb, I mean, you don't need to imagine him as a lawyer, you just need to imagine him as a normal adult like you and me, I mean who speak like that? I certainly had not met anyone who have 3 lololol in a sentence follow by the F bomb.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> I really doubt China is stupid enough to support Russia both economically and militarily,,,
> 
> Economically, China must have seen how EU ended up by overdependent on Russian energy products. They won't replicate, which mean there are no way China can buy at the level the EU had even if they want to help.
> 
> Military, there are no way people won't know if China transfer Military hardware to Russia, parts and spare yes, you can still do it under the table, but whole product will get caught on immediately. China cannot afford the sanction from the West.
> 
> This is more or less along the line of lip service. I think underneath Xi would very much like Putin to take EU down with Russia, that's the best outcome for them. Eliminate one major competitor and gain a vassal.


Russia is finished, no matter how this war continues. everything gone: global standing, military, economy, arms exports, living standard. fully dependent on China for minerals exports, on Turkey on smuggling. The world is transforming to green. There won’t be much demand for fossil fuels.
Putin degrades Russia to a cheap gas station. No technology, no progress.
Putin’s end game is a primitive hooligan with nuke.

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## Dalit

aviator_fan said:


> So by this logic, this would only be a fair war if everybody stayed out and Ukraine alone fought it. You are making Russians sound like pathetic imbecilles if you think this is how they thought this war was going to be fought.
> 
> For years they have been building their fortress economy, in theory spending on defence (but corrupt system stole most of it) and influencing via social media public opinion around the world. They were not idiots enough to believe that this would be a war that Ukraine alone will fight.
> 
> What they undersestimated is how Ukrainians hated them and how NATO would come together



NATO isn't united. It is fragmented like never before. Ukraine is in doldrums. A country ravaged by Russian intervention. You can try to paint a rosy picture, but Ukraine is indeed the bigger loser in this conflict. Russia is expected to distance itself further from EU orbit. EU clout over Russia due to energy supplies has already diminished to zero. A Chinese Russian resurgence is a reality.

I have also read the deceiving headlines in Western media when Putin met Xi LOL Trying to twist the positive meeting as a negative one. The headlines reveal how insecure the Western powers are regarding a Russian Sino nexus.

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> No Joke some veterans from Desert Strom I spoke on other forums are willing to admit that Saddam's Iraqi army are more competent than the Russian armed forces.


That's mostly because it is....

Even the Iraqi force the second time around in OIF perform better than the Russian...

I don't see any progress being made by Russia beside their PMC, which is probably the unit which have the most motivation, and even so, their "Progress" is at most 1km a day, some time none at all, and it has been no movement and no attack since August 30. 

It is as if the entire Russian Army in Ukraine does not exist, and the only time we heard from them is them abandoning their equipment in retreat. I mean, just tell me when did you heard from unit like 1st Guard Tank Army? The last I heard of them is back in June. Even tho they are in theatre since then.

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## Viet

dBSPL said:


> LOL


Interesting picture
Erdogan seems the most important man.
Putin looks like a drunken russian.
He as ex spy doesn’t trust anyone, probably only drinks Wodka served by FSB.

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> Mr. Patriot: in 2008, oil price (when Putin was still in power but hadn't become an idiot yet) oil had shot up to $138. Inflation adjusted $190. Way more than what this war has predicted it. World went through it just fine. So stop making oil price as an indicator of Putin's wisdom.


Think you quote the wrong guy......

But yes, the world had been worse in gas price and we still pull through. 

The thing is, US is currently the largest oil and gas (It was Russia before) now, and while US may let Exxon or even BP ride on the high gas price (which is one of the main reasons why we had $130 brent crude before) but they won't let the entire Oil and Gas Industry collapse, they will open reserve tap when it is over the limit.


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## Dalit

Viet said:


> Interesting picture
> Erdogan seems the most important man.
> Putin looks like a drunken russian.
> But I think he as ex spy only drinks Wodka served by FSB.



LOL Erdogan has become the favorite man of the West yet again. Not so long ago Western powers were tacitly approving a military takeover.

Don't get too happy. Erdogan will milk both sides.


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## Viet

Dalit said:


> LOL Erdogan has become the favorite man of the West yet again. Not so long ago Western powers were tacitly approving a military takeover.


Erdogan is an interesting man. He has two faces though. He delivers drones to Ukraine to kill Russians, while he helps Putin to smuggle western products to Russia. He is like an arms dealer that sells knife to opponents that want to kill each other. Putin needs him because Russia gets via Turkey what it needs from the west. At least he gets some.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> Erdogan is an interesting man. He has two faces though. He delivers drones to Ukraine to kill Russians, while he helps Putin to smuggle western products to Russia. He is like an arms dealer that sells knife to opponents that want to kill each other.



Welcome to the reality. I would have done the same and even more.


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Russia is finished, no matter how this war continues. everything gone: global standing, military, economy, arms exports, living standard. fully dependent on China for minerals exports, on Turkey on smuggling. The world is transforming to green. There won’t be much demand for fossil fuels.
> Putin degrades Russia to a cheap gas station. No technology, no progress.
> Putin’s end game is a primitive hooligan with nuke.


by June next year, Russia WILL run out of money, that's a given, and it probably happens a lot earlier before that. Unless it's the intention for Putin to beg SCO or CSTO country for money to continue prosecute this war. There are no way he can keep his country and fight this war at the same time. Hollowing out the equipment is one thing. But the thing that hurt Russia is the economy keep tanking. Just read a Bloomberg report today, by December this year Russia would have -20% increase (or I should say 20% decrease) of their GDP, which mean less tax and less budget, so by early next year, they will have to choose, either give those budget to the war department, or spend it on the school, hospital or whatever in the country.

But then at the same time, this Counter Offensive, although very successful, is not going to end this war now, in fact, after this retreat, Russia position had improved simply because their frontline is decreasing, which mean more troop density, It will take 4 or 5 more counter offensive, one harder than the other to completely dislodge the Russian to have them leave, this counter offensive, however, show the West that Ukrainian can fight the way the West thought, and eliminate any doubt on further assistance, so I am expecting more advance and heavy equipment NATO is sending either by the end of this year or next year.

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> That's mostly because it is....
> 
> Even the Iraqi force the second time around in OIF perform better than the Russian...
> 
> I don't see any progress being made by Russia beside their PMC, which is probably the unit which have the most motivation, and even so, their "Progress" is at most 1km a day, some time none at all, and it has been no movement and no attack since August 30.
> 
> It is as if the entire Russian Army in Ukraine does not exist, and the only time we heard from them is them abandoning their equipment in retreat. I mean, just tell me when did you heard from unit like 1st Guard Tank Army? The last I heard of them is back in June. Even tho they are in theatre since then.



The 1st time I heard of the 1st guard tank div I heard was back in march. Back when they were part of the failed push towards Kyiv. Slaughtered in Sumy (CMIIW). They are supposed to be the elite of the russian armed forces. If that's their best I don't need to see the rest.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> Dude. The war is ongoing. Don't make premature claims. Losses and gains are part of every war. The opposing side also had many devestating losses.
> 
> Don't get angry if people are unwilling to buy your Western driven propaganda.


Watching the russo-ukrainian war is like watching marvel movie. You already knows who is going to win. 

I just hope I gets to see Putin tortured, sodomized & hanged like Gaddafi in the end. I wish marvel movie has an end like this.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> by June next year, Russia WILL run out of money, that's a given, and it probably happens a lot earlier before that. Unless it's the intention for Putin to beg SCO or CSTO country for money to continue prosecute this war. There are no way he can keep his country and fight this war at the same time. Hollowing out the equipment is one thing. But the thing that hurt Russia is the economy keep tanking. Just read a Bloomberg report today, by December this year Russia would have -20% increase (or I should say 20% decrease) of their GDP, which mean less tax and less budget, so by early next year, they will have to choose, either give those budget to the war department, or spend it on the school, hospital or whatever in the country.
> 
> But then at the same time, this Counter Offensive, although very successful, is not going to end this war now, in fact, after this retreat, Russia position had improved simply because their frontline is decreasing, which mean more troop density, It will take 4 or 5 more counter offensive, one harder than the other to completely dislodge the Russian to have them leave, this counter offensive, however, show the West that Ukrainian can fight the way the West thought, and eliminate any doubt on further assistance, so I am expecting more advance and heavy equipment NATO is sending either by the end of this year or next year.


That’s granted.
The energy sales to China will not compensate the loss to EU. Russia will become a dumping ground for chinese products. I hope Vietnam will deliver whatever russians need too, from shoes to fridge to smartphone to car. Win win. The russians are cut off from the west, they have no choice. Russia will get garbage from allies Iran, North Korea, Cuba.

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## zartosht

Looks like i was correct. Here is a massive pro-russian source the washington post describing the brutal mass slaughter of ukie cannon fodder

Brutal slaughter of ukies



> SOUTHERN UKRAINE — In dimly lit hospital rooms in southern Ukraine, soldiers with severed limbs, shrapnel wounds, mangled hands and shattered joints recounted the lopsided disadvantages their units faced in the early days of a new offensive to expel Russian forces from the strategic city of Kherson.
> The soldiers said they lacked the artillery needed to dislodge Russia’s entrenched forces and described a yawning technology gap with their better-equipped adversaries. The interviews provided some of the first direct accounts of a push to retake captured territory that is so sensitive, Ukrainian military commanders have barred reporters from visiting the front lines.
> 
> “They used everything on us,” said Denys, a 33-year-old Ukrainian soldier whose unit fell back from a Russian-held village after a lengthy barrage of cluster bombs, phosphorous munitions and mortars. “Who can survive an attack for five hours like that?” he said.


.


Facts: 

-There has been no collapse of Russian lines. The Russians have made calculated withdraws with reargaurd action, while slaughtering ukies with artillery

-There has been no mass surrender , or anything out of the ordinary one would expect from a “collapse”. There should be thousands of russian pows getting captured. Not the handful which has been the norm

- This offensive is almost a mirror image of Germanys last ditch major offensive “the battle of the bulge”. The Germans threw absolutely everything they had in that offensive, made major gains, and the troops were really high on morale. That offensive depleted the last real fighting reserve of the german army, and hastened their defeat. 

-ukies are not fighting off Russians, but capturing evacuated territory Russians withdrew from with rearguard/artillery slaughter of poor ukies

- Bakhmut is almost surrounded , as Russia has exploited this twitter offensive to slaughter ukies using sound military logic.


Imagine yourself a Russian commander. Dumb ukies have massed 30 k troops with everything they have to attck lightly defended kherson. Do you make the militarily wise choice of making a orderly withdral while mass slaughtering ukies in the process? Or
Do you send in reinforcements to fight on poor odds, just for pr points?


Im really glad Russia is choosing the militarily sound tactic. While it may give some twitter clowns somethings to cheer about, as the battle of the bulge did for german morale. In reality, it will hasten ukraines defeat.

Lastly the Russians havent even gotten close to expensing all their cards. They are still toying with ukraine. They are not even forcing their reserves to fight. Let alone a mass mobilization (2 things you would surely see before any Russian defeat, followed by the nuxlear options)

I an laughing at the western shitstream induced mass hysteria, and i hope some of the clowns leave in shame once this “offensive” is exposed for what it is.

The ukies have taken nothing but sledgehammer shots to the groin for a couple of pictures.

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## Zarvan

aviator_fan said:


> NATO never thought Russians would be so incompetent and never believed Ukrainian would push back the initial on-slaught given in Afghanistan the Govt gave up Kabul to Taliban on motorcycles.


Every body though in a week war will be over and Ukraine will surrender. They proved all wrong including me. I thought Russia will capture entire Ukraine but then some sort of insurgency will start and go for years. Never expected this to happen.


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## PakFactor

aviator_fan said:


> NATO never thought Russians would be so incompetent and never believed Ukrainian would push back the initial on-slaught given in Afghanistan the Govt gave up Kabul to the Taliban on motorcycles.



Recently, the US reassessed its standing via Russia and said Russia is no longer a strategic threat. Some even went further, calling it intelligence failure for not seeing the rot in the Russian armed forces.


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## Reashot Xigwin

PakFactor said:


> Recently, the US reassessed its standing via Russia and said Russia is no longer a strategic threat. Some even went further, calling it intelligence failure for not seeing the rot in the Russian armed forces.


Plot Twist: There's no intelligence failure. Pentagon knows the true capability of the Russian armed forces & play it up so they can have a budget increase.

If so I applaud them but still a dick move by them because that gives Putin & any tin pot dictators worldwide false sense of self confidence to pull an invasion.



Zarvan said:


> Every body though in a week war will be over and Ukraine will surrender. They proved all wrong including me. I thought Russia will capture entire Ukraine but then some sort of insurgency will start and go for years. Never expected this to happen.


Not me though (humble brag). I already know 100k aint enough to pull an invasion. But I always thought they just going to annex donbass & luhansk not the entire country.

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570546009251647489


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## Viet

The US announces more supports for Ukraine, in total 40 billion USD, and more sanctions on Russia. More russian individuals, more companies, more state apparatus being put on sanction list, in addition more sanctions on exports of technology.










USA kündigen weitere Militärhilfen für Ukraine an


Die USA stocken ihre militärische Unterstützung für die Ukraine auf: Die weiteren Hilfen sollen einen Umfang von 600 Millionen US-Dollar umfassen. Gegen Russland brachte die US-Regierung erneut Sanktionen auf den Weg.




www.tagesschau.de


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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> Looks like i was correct. Here is a massive pro-russian source the washington post describing the brutal mass slaughter of ukie cannon fodder
> 
> Brutal slaughter of ukies


Out of context lies again. 

This mostly describes the kherson front.
death figures named by the interviewed are not that high. A lot of wounded that is true…but most show willingness to make such sacrifices and keep fighting. 



zartosht said:


> .Facts:
> 
> -There has been no collapse of Russian lines. The Russians have made calculated withdraws with reargaurd action, while slaughtering ukies with artillery


The interviews are in kherson front from before 7 september.
On this front advances have been slow and hardfought. 

Kharkiv front fell apart from 7 september onwards….a massive collapse of russian lines there….


zartosht said:


> -There has been no mass surrender , or anything out of the ordinary one would expect from a “collapse”. There should be thousands of russian pows getting captured. Not the handful which has been the norm


Again…deliberately mixing up kharkiv and kherson. 
Russia POW were made in the latter, however by dropping all their heavy weapons and running (sometimes by stolen civilian cars/bikes) before/on contact…the russians managed to avoid too many trapped troops. 


zartosht said:


> - This offensive is almost a mirror image of Germanys last ditch major offensive “the battle of the bulge”. The Germans threw absolutely everything they had in that offensive, made major gains, and the troops were really high on morale. That offensive depleted the last real fighting reserve of the german army, and hastened their defeat.


Kharkiv had few losses and a lot of material gain.
Kherson has not been an all in rush. 

Just wait till the next offensive buddy. 


zartosht said:


> -ukies are not fighting off Russians, but capturing evacuated territory Russians withdrew from with rearguard/artillery slaughter of poor ukies


Kherson cannot be supplied easily. Increasing the intensity of fighting will see russians run out of ammo. They are now slowly being pressured. 

Kharkiv was a massive succes. The russians lost major logistic hubs. 

Ukraine showed they can succesfully counterattack and will keep getting supplies wel past winter.


zartosht said:


> - Bakhmut is almost surrounded , as Russia has exploited this twitter offensive to slaughter ukies using sound military logic.


1km a day speed. Inconsequential. 


zartosht said:


> Imagine yourself a Russian commander. Dumb ukies have massed 30 k troops with everything they have to attck lightly defended kherson. Do you make the militarily wise choice of making a orderly withdral while mass slaughtering ukies in the process? Or
> Do you send in reinforcements to fight on poor odds, just for pr points?


More lies. Russia reinforced kherson a great deal. Draining troops from other front where they were routed from or are almost culminating. 


zartosht said:


> Im really glad Russia is choosing the militarily sound tactic. While it may give some twitter clowns somethings to cheer about, as the battle of the bulge did for german morale. In reality, it will hasten ukraines defeat.
> 
> Lastly the Russians havent even gotten close to expensing all their cards. They are still toying with ukraine. They are not even forcing their reserves to fight. Let alone a mass mobilization (2 things you would surely see before any Russian defeat, followed by the nuxlear options)


Keep coping. 


zartosht said:


> I an laughing at the western shitstream induced mass hysteria, and i hope some of the clowns leave in shame once this “offensive” is exposed for what it is.
> 
> The ukies have taken nothing but sledgehammer shots to the groin for a couple of pictures.


Stuck in the past around 1 september buddy? russian trolls now have to imagine an alternative world where the kharkiv embarrasment did not happen? Sad

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## NotSure

dBSPL said:


> LOL



Seems like Erdogan is telling a joke? A "military man" walks into a bar ...

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## gambit

PakAlp said:


> Ukraine has struck more than 400 Russian targets with HIMARS - U.S. top general
> 
> 
> Ukraine has struck over 400 Russian targets with U.S.-supplied HIMARS rocket systems, General Mark Milley, the Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How HIMARS launchers are shifting momentum in Ukraine's fight against Russia
> 
> 
> Since the U.S. provided Ukraine with 16 High-Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, the launchers are changing the face of battle, becoming a key weapon in Ukraine's counteroffensive against invading Russian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand your point but can't the Russian airforce/drones target and destroy the mighty Himars. If the Russian airforce controlled the skies they would know where the Himars are coming from and chase and destroy them.


There are controversies regarding drones.

For starter, who owns them? The air force or the army? Small drones have limited range and that maybe go to the army? Give out one hundred drones with no coherent tactics is just as bad as having no drones at all. But we must go thru these teething pain with the drones as they are still new in warfare.


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## gambit

PakFactor said:


> That is very true. In your opinion, what course of action will Russia and its armed forces take, based on your military career studies of Russian military and political thinking? They have two more NATO members in the north and Ukraine, a major non-NATO ally down the road.


What is the worst thing that can happen to a marriage? Divorce.

What is the worst thing that can happen to a company? Bankruptcy, hostile takeover, or economic depression.

What is the worst thing that can happen to a military? It is not being defeated but dissolution.

In all three cases, the final result is that there is no more of that being.

Take the Iraqi Army. Desert Storm was not the worst thing to happen to it. The occupation of Iraq was the worst. During the occupation, the Iraqi Army essentially self dissolved. The institution itself was held in such low regard that soldiers did not even bothered with the formality of resigning but simply discard their uniforms and returned to civilian life as if they never joined the army in the first place.

Viet Nam was perceived to be the lowest point for the US military. Not the worst but rock bottom as an institution. Morale was low all over. Civilians were at best feeling sorry for the military, if not outright hostile to it. The US Congress barely supported it. Scandals from the war tainted its image.

The French military after France surrendered to Hitler?

Assuming Ukraine succeeds in ejecting Russia out. That will be rock bottom for the Russian military. It will not dissolve, either by self or by act of the Duma or whatever legislative body there is, but by virtue of 6,000+ nuclear warheads, the Russian military will survive if at least to guard over those weapons. But if Ukraine, ostensibly cultural and genetic DNA cousin to Russia, succeeded in ousting the Russian military out of their country, the Russian military will continue to exist mostly on paper because of those nuclear weapons. This will be worse than Viet Nam for the US military. This Russian military 'rock bottom' will be lower. After Viet Nam, what did the Soviet/China alliance gained in Asia? Nothing. But in Ukraine, even though the war is not over, NATO grew in number and in strength.

So for now, we can safely assume that the Russian military will be weakened further but beyond that, how the Russian military will fare, as in reviving itself the way the US military did after Viet Nam, is unknown. As I said earlier on how economy tied to military strength, the West will not forgive Russia after the war, that will leave next to nothing for the Russian military to rise from being rock bottom.


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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> That is very true. In your opinion, what course of action will Russia and its armed forces take, based on your military career studies of Russian military and political thinking? They have two more NATO members in the north and Ukraine, a major non-NATO ally down the road.


I know that you had not ask me, but let me interject a bit on what Gambit had not talked about.

In short, it's not as easy as you think, because Russian (Or Soviet Union) standard is like Western Standard, it was copy and used worldwide by Russian allies, the problem is not on the people, nor the equipment, nor how they conduct warfare, the core issue on what get this war so wrong is the entire Soviet Union system, which is open to be exploited by higher up, because there are no self-censoring and there are no what we would call "Check and Balance" to it. The entire system is centralised which mean the person who on top in charge of everything, that's the reason why corruption is so rampant, and that is the reason why their power projection is not even half of what they should be.

Which mean the Soviet System has got to go if you want to rebuild the Russian Military, but then which system would they use? Bear in mind there are only ever 2 doctrines in the world to begin with, The Soviet and The West, Russia cannot copy China, because China copy the soviet system, Russia cannot copy India, Iran, North Korea, all CSTO state because they all uses the same system Russia was using. The only way it can move forward for Russian Military would be to try to be more Westernized Military, using Western Doctrine. The problem is, to do that, you will need to have a Western Country they can model. After this war, who would let Russian copy and studied their model in detail? No one in the West is going to help Russia rebuild their military. And you cannot have reform or say for example, build a NCO corps from scratch without Western help.

So, post war Russia is going to be stuck in a hard place, they can't change their system, which mean whatever they changes are peripherical, it may stem the problem now, but somewhere down the road, you can't stop the next guy from exploiting the system, then they are going to go back to square one. so either they start a whole new Military Tradition from scratch in the next decade or so, or one of the Western countries decided to throw a bone toward Russia and help them out, they are going to get stuck in this cycle.

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The 1st time I heard of the 1st guard tank div I heard was back in march. Back when they were part of the failed push towards Kyiv. Slaughtered in Sumy (CMIIW). They are supposed to be the elite of the russian armed forces. If that's their best I don't need to see the rest.


The Last I heard about 1st Guard Tank Army is Putin replaced their leader General Sergei Kisel back in May for failing to capture Kharkiv









Ukraine war: Russia suspends Lieutenant General Kisel over failure to capture Kharkiv


The UK Defence Ministry, on Thursday, revealed that Russia has suspended Lieutenant-General Serhiy Kisel for his failure to capture Kharkiv amid the




dailypost.ng





The next I heard of them is on a UK intelligence Cable identifying the 1st Guard Tank Army being the unit that was routed from Kharkiv Oblast....On September 13 or 14.



Viet said:


> That’s granted.
> The energy sales to China will not compensate the loss to EU. Russia will become a dumping ground for chinese products. I hope Vietnam will deliver whatever russians need too, from shoes to fridge to smartphone to car. Win win. The russians are cut off from the west, they have no choice. Russia will get garbage from allies Iran, North Korea, Cuba.


Well, have you ever heard that US Military buy drone from say Indonesia (not to say Indonesia is a fail state like North Korea, this is the first name I thought of, so no offence to any Indonesia member) 

That's a big problem when it was supposed to be Russia selling stuff to Iran, instead of buying stuff from them in order to prosecute the war. And that also comes with a stick, how long can Iran keep up your demand? Bear in mind Russia WAS a industrial powerhouse, they can make thousands of their own Drone every year, and yet their stock is depleted to a point they need to buy from Iran, does Iran have the same capability of production than Russia? I would think not. Which mean depending on Iran cannot be for long, even if Iran do nothing but manufacture stuff for Russia, a war that deplete the stock for Russia own manufacturer level would more than likely deplete Iranian stock as well.....That's simple economy of war


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570691702847074306

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570713138726830080
The prosecutor general and his deputy also died in the explosion it is reported. bastards got what they deserved.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570721970177843201

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The Coalition won. The CCP higher up even suffered mental breakdown from it. Seeing Chinese trained & armed iraqi get pummeled so easily.
> 
> LOL Russia already bombed children, maternity hospitals they mostly targeted civilians infrastructures & committed GENOCIDE. And it's not collateral damage mind you the Rusky actually targeted them on purpose. Russia can't do jack!
> 
> There is only 1 superpower in the world.


Right, Russians are not even doing it the proper American way, kill 500k civilians and bomb the hell outta Iraq. What do you think shock and awe was about. Its about the lust for Muslim blood okay, after 911.


Reashot Xigwin said:


> The Coalition won. The CCP higher up even suffered mental breakdown from it. Seeing Chinese trained & armed iraqi get pummeled so easily.
> 
> LOL Russia already bombed children, maternity hospitals they mostly targeted civilians infrastructures & committed GENOCIDE. And it's not collateral damage mind you the Rusky actually targeted them on purpose. Russia can't do jack!
> 
> There is only 1 superpower in the world.


And that's supposed to be good for the world? One superpower? What happened to equality and freedom. China is fighting for a multipolar world. You dimwits are fighting for the Empire.



RoadAmerica said:


> I can’t even debate you anymore. God you’re dumb. Go jerk off


What, Iraq was intact right? No carpet bombing, no civilians killed, all using precision weapons OnLEE. US is the good guy.... Lol



Dalit said:


> That is what you say after every argument you lose.
> 
> Russians will bounce back. This war isn't ending anytime soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia isn't fighting Ukraine. Russia is fighting the US/NATO bulwark in Ukraine. In case you forgot, US/NATO are assisting Ukraine militarily and economically to counter Russia. Making simplistic claims like Russia hasn't been able to take out Ukraine is juvenile.


You can't explain this to these fanatics. The current mess was created by US and yet they think they are 'helping' Ukraine. These idiots are supporting the prolonged suffering of Ukraine. They are now trying to make us kill our own Han brethren in Taiwan. This is how the empire is maintained, divide and conquer.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> Right, Russians are not even doing it the proper American way, kill 500k civilians and bomb the hell outta Iraq. What do you think shock and awe was about. Its about the lust for Muslim blood okay, after 911.
> 
> 
> Right, Russians are not even doing it the proper American way, kill 500k civilians and bomb the hell outta Iraq. What do you think shock and awe was about. Its about the lust for Muslim blood okay, after 911.
> 
> 
> Right, Russians are not even doing it the proper American way, kill 500k civilians and bomb the hell outta Iraq. What do you think shock and awe was about. Its about the lust for Muslim blood okay, after 911.
> 
> And that's supposed to be good for the world? One superpower? What happened to equality and freedom. China is fighting for a multipolar world. You dimwits are fighting for the Empire.


Russia already killed more civvies than the US in any of their wars combined. This modern Russia only I'm talking about? I'm not even counting about the red army raping every wonab their way through eastern europe to Berlin which are in the millions alone mind you.

Do you even know what multipolar even is? Seriously asking.

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia already killed more civvies than the US in any of their wars combined. This modern Russia only I'm talking about? I'm not even counting about the red army raping every wonab their way through eastern europe to Berlin which are in the millions alone mind you.
> 
> Do you even know what multipolar even is? Seriously asking.


Ooo really? RUSSIANS already killed 500k people? Oooo I bet you pluck that number out of some orifice right, or better yet, from CNN. Just like there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq right. Gosh, you lil sheeple get fed propaganda so easily. Just broadcast shit and repeat it a 1000x.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570691702847074306
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570713138726830080
> The prosecutor general and his deputy also died in the explosion it is reported. bastards got what they deserved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570721970177843201



Why yes more dead russian pls. What I like this war is that it's pretty much a moral war. Clear division between good & evil. Any acts of violence against russia is morally justified. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570680190887510016


Han Patriot said:


> Ooo really? RUSSIANS already killed 500k people? Oooo I bet you pluck that number out of some orifice right, or better yet, from CNN. Just like there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq right. Gosh, you lil sheeple get fed propaganda so easily. Just broadcast shit and repeat it a 1000x.


Chechnya ring any bell? That's just list number 1. I'm not even counting other atrocity like syria. Or even Ukraine which probably easily numbers in the millions seeing the ukrainians & syrians just keep finding mass graves after mass graves.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570730195933593600

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570691628985389056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570689778118709250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570687485474377734


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570744714445594626

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## dBSPL

Viet said:


> Interesting picture
> Erdogan seems the most important man.
> Putin looks like a drunken russian.
> He as ex spy doesn’t trust anyone, probably only drinks Wodka served by FSB.


In fact, almost all of these countries have very basic geopolitical problems between them. I do not want to give an example one by one, the simplest example was the clash on the Tajikistan-Kyrgyzstan border again this morning.

However, on the other hand, these countries also learned to use the dialogue channel and to meet at a table around common interests. SCO, even if we include BRICS, is becoming a more inclusive and important structure in world politics from being organizations based on economic relations. They take small matters into controlled frameworks and create opportunities for convergence around larger interests. If Asia can mobilize its collective power, the world will move in a different direction. The leaders there know this, as well as the western bloc that is not there.


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## SalarHaqq

Dalit said:


> It is an enormous joy to see these US/NATO trolls spend every minute of the day arguing like crazy in this topic. Do these people even have a job I wonder...



This _is_ their job, quite probably. Wouldn't be surprised if it was actually the case of at least some of the >10 accounts which have sprung up since February and ever since have been concentrating their commenting on this thread alone (and spend large amounts of time on here).


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, SEPTEMBER 15​Sep 15, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Katherine Lawlor, Grace Mappes, George Barros, and Frederick W. Kagan
September 15, 9:30 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukrainian forces are continuing counteroffensive operations in eastern Ukraine, increasingly pressuring Russian positions and logistics lines in eastern Kharkiv, northern Luhansk, and eastern Donetsk oblasts.* Russian sources reported that Ukrainian forces are continuing ground operations southeast of Izyum, near Lyman, and on the east bank of the Oskil River, reportedly compelling Russian forces to withdraw from some areas in eastern Ukraine and reinforce others.[1] Russian forces in eastern Ukraine will likely struggle to hold their defensive lines if Ukrainian forces continue to push farther east.
*The Kremlin is responding to the defeat around Kharkiv Oblast by doubling down on crypto-mobilization rather than setting conditions for general mobilization. *Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov called on all federal subjects to initiate “self-mobilization” and not wait on the Kremlin to declare martial law.*[2]* Kadyrov claimed that each federal subject must prove its readiness to help Russia by recruiting at least 1,000 servicemen instead of delivering speeches and conducting fruitless public events. Russian propagandist Margarita Simonyan echoed the need for Russians to volunteer to join the war effort, and several loyalist Russian governors publicly supported Kadyrov’s speech.[3] The Russian-appointed head of occupied Crimea, Sergey Aksyonov, announced the formation of two volunteer battalions on the peninsula in support of Kadyrov’s calls.[4]
*The defeat around Kharkiv Oblast prompted the Kremlin to announce a Russia-wide recruitment campaign. *Kremlin officials and state media had not previously made country-wide recruitment calls but had instead tasked local officials and outlets to generate forces ostensibly on their own initiative. Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov vaguely welcomed the creation of the battalions on July 12, while 47 loyalist federal subjects advertised and funded the regional volunteer battalion recruitment campaign.[5] A prominent Russian milblogger and a supporter of general mobilization praised officials such as Kadyrov for taking the recruitment campaign from the ineffective Russian Ministry of Defense; this recruitment revamp is likely to secure more support for the Kremlin among nationalist figures who are increasingly critical of the Russian MoD, even if the drive does not generate large numbers of combat-effective troops.[6]
*The Kremlin has likely abandoned its efforts to shield select federal subjects from recruitment drives, which may increase social tensions. *ISW has previously reported that the Kremlin attempted to shield Moscow City residents from reports of the formation of the Moscow-based “Sobyaninsky Polk” volunteer regiment.[7] Russian opposition outlet _The Insider _noted that several groups in the republics of Buryatia, Kalmykia, Tyva, and Yakytia (Republic of Sakha) are publicly opposed to the Kremlin's emphasis on recruitment on an ethnic basis.[8] Simonyan’s statement about “self-mobilization” prompted numerous negative comments among Russians calling on Russian oligarchs to pay for and fight in the war.[9]
*The Kremlin has almost certainly drained a large proportion of the forces originally stationed in Russian bases in former Soviet states since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine began in February, likely weakening Russian influence in those states. *A Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) investigation reported on September 14 that the Russian military has already deployed approximately 1500 Russian personnel from Russia’s 201st Military Base in Dushanbe, Tajikistan, to Ukraine since the full-scale invasion began and plans to deploy 600 more personnel from facilities in Dushanbe and Bokhatar, a southern Tajik city, in the future.[10] RFE/RL additionally reported on September 13 that Russia has likely redeployed approximately 300 Tuvan troops from the Russian Kant Air Base in Kyrgyzstan to fight in Ukraine at varying points since late 2021.[11]
The withdrawals from the Central Asian states are noteworthy in the context of border clashes between Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. Tajik and Kyrgyz border guards exchanged fire in three separate incidents on September 14, killing at least two people.[12] The uptick in violence between Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, both of which are members of the Russian-controlled Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), comes alongside renewed aggression by Azerbaijan against CSTO member state Armenia. Russian forces also withdrew 800 personnel from Armenia early in the war to replenish losses in Ukraine, as ISW has previously reported.[13]
*Key Takeaways*

*Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations in eastern Ukraine.*
*The Kremlin is responding to the defeat around Kharkiv Oblast by doubling down on crypto-mobilization, rather than setting conditions for general mobilization.*
*The Kremlin has almost certainly drained a large proportion of the forces originally at Russian bases in former Soviet states since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine began in February, likely weakening Russian influence in those states.*
*Russian and Ukrainian sources reported Ukrainian ground attacks northwest of Kherson City, near the Ukrainian bridgehead over the Inhulets River, and south of the Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border.*
*Russian-appointed occupation officials and milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted a landing at the Kinsburn Spit (a narrow peninsula in Kherson Oblast).*
*Russian forces conducted limited ground assaults and are reinforcing positions on the Eastern Axis.*
*The Russian proxy Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) is likely attempting to stop its administrators from fleeing ahead of the Ukrainian counteroffensive, demonstrating the bureaucratic fragility of the DNR.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Vovchansk-Kupyansk-Izyum-Lyman Line)*
Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations in eastern Ukraine, setting conditions to drive deeper into the Russian rear in eastern Kharkiv and western Luhansk oblasts. A Russian source claimed that Ukrainian forces expelled Russian forces from Sosnove on the north bank of the Siverskyi Donets River and are fortifying positions at the settlement.[14] The source also reported that Russian forces may have pulled out from Studenok immediately west of Sosnove to avoid encirclement.[15] Official Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces reinforced Russian positions in Lyman.[16] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that the heavily reduced remnants of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) 2nd Army Corps 202nd and 204th Motorized Rifle Regiments were disbanded into reserves, possibly meaning that the remnants of these reduced elements reinforced the Russian Combat Army Reserve (BARS) elements fighting in Lyman.[17]
Ukrainian forces are reportedly advancing across the Oskil River in northern Kharkiv Oblast. A Russian source claimed that Ukrainian forces are establishing bases and artillery positions throughout Kharkiv Oblast, including emplacing artillery in Hryanykivka on the east bank of the Oskil River near the R79 highway.[18] A confirmed Ukrainian position in Hryanykivka would indicate that the Russian frontline east of the Oskil River is weak and/or that Russian forces’ lines in this area are farther east of the Oskil River than previously assessed. ISW will continue collecting and reconciling data to refine our control of terrain assessment. A Russian source reported that Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance groups occasionally cross the Oskil River in unspecified areas.[19]
Ukrainian forces continued operations to disrupt Russian logistics in eastern Ukraine and pin Russian forces away from the frontlines. Ukrainian forces reportedly struck rear areas in occupied Luhansk Oblast, including Lysychansk, Svitlodarsk, Perevalsk, and Kadiivka, all situated along major Russian GLOCs.[20] Imagery shows the aftermath of a Ukrainian strike on a Russian base in Lysychansk.[21] Russian and Ukrainian sources engaged in artillery duels across the Kharkiv-Belgorod Oblast border.[22]



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Ukrainian military officials are continuing their operational silence regarding the progress of the southern counteroffensive, noting that Ukrainian forces are continuing to improve their tactical positions and are engaged in positional battles.[23] Ukrainian local sources stated that there is no official confirmation that Ukrainian forces have liberated Kyselivka northwest of Kherson City but noted receiving local reports that Russian forces are mining all of the roads in the settlement.[24] Ukrainian officials did not report changes in Russian troop composition, but social media footage showed a Tuva Oblast flag in Beryslav, which likely indicates that Russian forces are continuing to reinforce northern Kherson Oblast with regionally formed volunteer units.[25] Conventional Russian military units typically do not fly republic or federal subject flags.
Ukrainian military officials stated that Ukrainian forces are continuing their interdiction campaign, targeting Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) across the Inhulets and Dnipro Rivers.[26] Ukrainian military officials noted that Russian forces are continuing to transfer equipment across the Dnipro River, however.[27] Ukrainian forces reportedly struck areas of Russian manpower and equipment concentrations in the Kherson City suburbs and in Krynychanka (about 21km southeast of the Ukrainian bridgehead over the Inhulets River).[28] The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command noted that Ukrainian forces damaged Russian ammunition depots in Sadove (about 15km southwest of Snihurivka) and Mykolaiv and Kherson raions, and struck the unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) control center in Komyshany, northwest of Kherson City.[29] Ukraine’s Department of Strategic Communications (StratCom) reported that Ukrainian forces destroyed a Russian military base in Nova Kakhovka, and local footage and reports corroborated StratCom’s information.[30] Other social media reports noted Ukrainian strikes on Russian positions in Oleshky, on the left bank of the Dnipro River.[31]
Ukrainian and Russian sources indicated three areas of kinetic activity on September 15: northwest of Kherson City, near the Ukrainian bridgehead over the Inhulets River, and south of the Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border west of Vysokopillya. A Russian milblogger claimed that one Ukrainian reconnaissance and sabotage group drove down 25km southeast of the bridgehead to Charivne in a car without encountering any obstacles.[32] The milblogger added that Russian shelling decreased in Sukhyi Stavok (about 12km southeast of the bridgehead) and that Ukrainians are operating helicopters in the area, which may indicate that Russian forces have pulled back further from the bridgehead area. The milblogger noted that Russian forces continue to repel Ukrainian counterattacks on Davydiv Brid on the T2207 highway. The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults from Arhanhelske on Ivanivka (west of Vysokopillya), while Russian milbloggers claimed that Russian airborne troops repelled Ukrainian counterattacks on Kostyrka and Novopetrivka.[33] Kherson Oblast Head Yaroslav Yanushevych stated that Ukrainian forces conducted evacuations from Myrolyubivka (southeast of Vysokopillya), which could indicate that Ukrainian forces have advanced to the settlement.[34] Both the Russian Defense Ministry and the Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces launched missile strikes at Ukrainian positions on the Kherson Oblast border.[35]
Russian-appointed occupation officials and milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted a landing at the Kinsburn Spit (a narrow peninsula in Kherson Oblast) on September 14, but offered differing accounts. Several milbloggers amplified the claims of a single source that suggested Ukrainian forces conducted an unsuccessful amphibious landing at the Kinsburn Spit with five boats. The source also claimed that there was an unconfirmed report of a heliborne landing at the Iron Port in Lazurne, about 60km southwest of Kherson City.[36] Deputy Head of the Russian occupation administration in Kherson Oblast Kirill Stremousov claimed that Russian forces repelled the attempted landing and killed over 120 Ukrainian airborne troops at the Kinsburn Spit.[37] Another milblogger criticized Stremousov and pointed out that his sources within Russian units in the area did not witness or repel any Ukrainian landing attempts and that Stremousov did not present any visual evidence supporting his claim.[38]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces conducted limited ground assaults across the Eastern Axis and continued routine fire along the line of contact on September 15.[39] Both Ukrainian and Russian official sources confirmed fighting in Spirne (east of Siversk) and Mayorsk (south of Bakhmut).[40] Russian sources claimed that Russian forces captured Mayorsk, though ISW cannot verify this claim.[41] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground assaults against Mayorsk, southeast of Bakhmut, and southwest of Donetsk City.[42]
Russian forces are reinforcing positions along the Eastern Axis, likely due to extensive combat losses. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are moving reserves from 3rd Army Corps volunteer battalions and remnants of units previously operating in Kharkiv Oblast to reinforce the Donetsk and Zaporizhia Oblast frontlines.[43] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that the Russian 137th Airborne Regiment (subordinate to the 106th Airborne Division) sustained significant combat losses in the Bakhmut area and cannot continue combat operations without additional unspecified measures (likely meaning reconstitution).[44]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued to strike Ukrainian hydraulic structures in Kryvyi Rih and other infrastructure in Ukraine on September 15. Dnipropetrovsk Oblast officials reported that Russian forces again targeted unspecified hydraulic structures in Kryvyi Rih, and Russian sources published footage of smoke claiming that Russian strikes damaged an unspecified dam on the Inhulets River on September 15.[45] Russian forces are likely continuing to strike Ukrainian dams on the Inhulets River to raise flood levels in an effort to disrupt the Ukrainian bridgehead over the river in northern Kherson Oblast and threaten Ukrainian logistics lines in the same way that Ukrainian forces are targeting Russian crossings of the Dnipro River.[46] Russian milbloggers amplified footage of large-scale explosions in the cities of Uman, Zaporizhia, and Vinnytsia, as well as in Odesa Oblast.[47] Russian forces also launched an Onyx cruise missile from a Bastion coastal missile complex and a Kh-59 missile fired from an Su-35 aircraft at an open area in Mykolaiv Oblast.[48] Social media users reported witnessing the activation of Russian air defense systems in Yevpatoria, Crimea.[49]



*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Russian military leadership continues to pull newly-mobilized forces from every possible source but is unlikely to be able to meaningfully increase Russian combat power with those forces. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on September 15 that the Russian government lifted restrictions on conscription for large families, suggesting that multiple sons from the same family could be forced to fight in Ukraine.[50] The Ukrainian mayor of Melitopol, Ivan Fedorov, reported on September 14 that Russian forces are promoting Russian military service in occupied territories such as Melitopol.[51] Forcibly or even willingly-mobilized Ukrainian civilians without military experience who are ordered to fight their better-trained countrymen are unlikely to significantly enhance Russian combat power in Ukraine.
The Russian Ministry of Defense announced on September 15 that the Russian Military Construction Complex is building a new, modern “military town” in Sernovodskoye in the Chechen Republic.[52] The town will reportedly contain over 50 facilities to accommodate Chechnya-based units.



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
The Russian proxy Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) is likely attempting to stop its administrators from fleeing ahead of the Ukrainian counteroffensive, demonstrating the bureaucratic fragility of the DNR. The DNR’s State Defense Committee extended one-time injury payments of 3 million rubles and one-time death payments of 5 million rubles to the families of officers, civil servants, and employees of the DNR’s Ministry of Emergency Situations killed in the line of work, the first time ISW has observed DNR civil servants being promised payment in the event of their injury or death in the war.[53] The DNR is likely attempting to incentivize its employees to remain in place to prevent a collapse in local governance as Ukrainian forces advance. Russian occupation forces have struggled to staff local administrations in occupied Ukrainian territory since the invasion began due to a lack of willing Ukrainian collaborators and competent bureaucrats.


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Right, Russians are not even doing it the proper American way, kill 500k civilians and bomb the hell outta Iraq. What do you think shock and awe was about. Its about the lust for Muslim blood okay, after 911.
> 
> And that's supposed to be good for the world? One superpower? What happened to equality and freedom. China is fighting for a multipolar world. You dimwits are fighting for the Empire.
> 
> 
> What, Iraq was intact right? No carpet bombing, no civilians killed, all using precision weapons OnLEE. US is the good guy.... Lol
> 
> 
> You can't explain this to these fanatics. The current mess was created by US and yet they think they are 'helping' Ukraine. These idiots are supporting the prolonged suffering of Ukraine. They are now trying to make us kill our own Han brethren in Taiwan. This is how the empire is maintained, divide and conquer.


China not fighting a multipolar world, please spare people of your shit. you fight for cheap gas. In addition the war in Ukraine fits your interests because it weakens the West.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570773362150100992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570760202563244038


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## gitadiaz

thank you for sharing it with me, I got many informations here


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570768606769852419

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570761534137303043


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570704294042796039

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570674384003796992


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## Viet

Ukraine army has 900,000 men and women in reserves.






Stärker als gedacht: Ukrainische Soldaten, hier in der Region Donezk Bild: DPA


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> So, post war Russia is going to be stuck in a hard place, they can't change their system, which mean whatever they changes are peripherical, it may stem the problem now, but somewhere down the road, you can't stop the next guy from exploiting the system, then they are going to go back to square one. so either they start a whole new Military Tradition from scratch in the next decade or so, or one of the Western countries decided to throw a bone toward Russia and help them out, they are going to get stuck in this cycle.


You made good points, especially the peripheral issues which usually are the most visible and effects are felt by the people. Economics? Queues for products. Finance? Accounts freezes. And so on...

The core is rotten and eventually the rot will spread out to the periphery -- the people. How about the aviation industry?









Russian government tells pilots to repair planes on their own to save on technicians


In Russia, pilots of regional flights are being told to carry out aircraft maintenance on their own, says Oleg Bocharov, deputy head of the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade, the Telegram channel Aviatorshchina reports




theins.ru





In Russia, pilots of regional flights are being told to carry out aircraft maintenance on their own, says Oleg Bocharov, deputy head of the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade, the Telegram channel _Aviatorshchina_ reports.​​According to him, first of all it concerns regional aviation pilots. They have been told *to create “a fundamentally new system of maintaining airworthiness.”*​
Bush pilots, not jet pilots, fixes their own planes. Passengers going to the outback understands the greater risks of *HOW* they are getting to where they want, but passengers going home for the holidays or business are not supposed to consider such risks. But now, Russian general aviation was told to create a new airworthiness standards just for Russia.

I thought this 'news' came from The Onion. But if true, all I can say is 'My God...'

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## MajesticPug

aziqbal said:


> Russians are getting hammered
> 
> remember Ukraine was the brains of the Soviet Union so they know a thing or two
> 
> they also know how to fight the Russians
> 
> Russia is losing this badly and they have way too much material loss
> 
> they are very very sloppy and very ill disciplined


Stupid!! Only a citizen from the sinking nation still claims that. Should not understimate the Russian military. They might not be the smartest but they are resilient. Ask the best European and American armies. They will tell you.

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## SIPRA

Putin is now addressing a press conference in Samarkand.

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## The SC

SIPRA said:


> Putin is now addressing a press conference in Samarkand.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570799854410170369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570801351504039936

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ukraine army has 900,000 men and women in reserves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stärker als gedacht: Ukrainische Soldaten, hier in der Region Donezk Bild: DPA



Highly unlikely considering Ukraine has 36 million people total.


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## Viet

A total EU oil embargo against Russia coming.

In preparation Germany takes over the control of Rosneft Germany, owned by Moscow.

Oil is the biggest money earner for Russia.









Rosneft: Bundesregierung stellt Raffinerien unter Treuhandverwaltung


Der russische Staatskonzern Rosneft betreibt drei Raffinerien in Deutschland. Nun hat Berlin entschieden: Der Staat übernimmt die Kontrolle bei den Betrieben.




www.spiegel.de









Bild vergrößern
Rosneft-Raffinerie in Schwedt

Foto: Patrick Pleul / dpa


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## SIPRA

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570799854410170369
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570801351504039936



Kindly post news, covering whole of this press conference, if you get hold of one.


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## The SC

SIPRA said:


> Kindly post news, covering whole of this press conference, if you get hold of one.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570768924878446593




__





Loading…






twitter.com









__





Loading…






twitter.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570720176735408128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570732126991155200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570714890586976257



Viet said:


> A total EU oil embargo against Russia coming.
> 
> In preparation Germany takes over the control of Rosneft Germany, owned by Moscow.
> 
> Oil is the biggest money earner for Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosneft: Bundesregierung stellt Raffinerien unter Treuhandverwaltung
> 
> 
> Der russische Staatskonzern Rosneft betreibt drei Raffinerien in Deutschland. Nun hat Berlin entschieden: Der Staat übernimmt die Kontrolle bei den Betrieben.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Rosneft-Raffinerie in Schwedt
> 
> Foto: Patrick Pleul / dpa




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570774924649955328




__





Loading…






twitter.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570797760689098756

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570784803250925570

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570743712715804672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570760453089005569

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570797760689098756
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570784803250925570
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570743712715804672
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570760453089005569
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570768924878446593
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570774924649955328
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> twitter.com


It’s a war of attrition on economic front.
Let’s see who goes burst first.

Rosneft is nationalized. What will Putin do?
Spewing more propaganda on new democracic world order?


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## Zarvan

The way Ukraine has fought back. There are lot of lessons to be learnt for smaller countries which are facing much bigger enemy. Secondly Russia needs to politically settle this matter. There is no way they can win this war. And if go by recent events if this war continues for one more year trust me things will become far far worse for Russia. Because USA is already itching F-16 to Ukraine. Yes I know it takes years to get used to a fighter jet but war makes people desperate and even if 20 pilot with F-16 loaded with Air to Ground munition get ready to carry out suicide missions they can be devastating for Russian bases, ammo depo and other such places.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570809344283013121


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570716857161904128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570716865294651392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570713072725295104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570580629401784321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570580635143794688


Viet said:


> It’s a war of attrition on economic front.
> Let’s see who goes burst first.
> 
> Rosneft is nationalized. What will Putin do?
> Spewing more propaganda on new democracic world order?


You mean Rosnef buildings..where will Germany get Gas from for those facilities?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Zarvan said:


> The way Ukraine has fought back. There are lot of lessons to be learnt for smaller countries which are facing much bigger enemy. Secondly Russia needs to politically settle this matter. There is no way they can win this war. And if go by recent events if this war continues for one more year trust me things will become far far worse for Russia. Because USA is already itching F-16 to Ukraine. Yes I know it takes years to get used to a fighter jet but war makes people desperate and even if 20 pilot with F-16 loaded with Air to Ground munition get ready to carry out suicide missions they can be devastating for Russian bases, ammo depo and other such places.



The day Kiev army stop shelling Donbas civilians is the day the war ends. Which is never.


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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570716857161904128
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570716865294651392
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570713072725295104
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570580629401784321
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570580635143794688
> 
> You mean Rosnef buildings..where will Germany get Gas from for those facilities?


Rosneft delivers oil, Gazprom delivers natural gas. You mixed up. Where to get oil and gas?
There are enough oil and gas on international markets.

EU itself produces oil and gas. Even Germany produces oil and gas.





__





Crude Oil Production - Countries - List | Europe


This page displays a table with actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, statistics and historical data charts for - Crude Oil Production. This page provides values for Crude Oil Production reported in several countries part of Europe. The table has current values for Crude Oil Production...




tradingeconomics.com

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## Vergennes

Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570812684031119360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570816732574658565

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570688501452247042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570689778118709250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570803118077808643

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570811816074440707


Viet said:


> Rosneft delivers oil, Gazprom delivers natural gas. You mixed up. Where to get oil and gas?
> There are enough oil and gas on international markets.
> 
> EU itself produces oil and gas. Even Germany produces oil and gas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crude Oil Production - Countries - List | Europe
> 
> 
> This page displays a table with actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, statistics and historical data charts for - Crude Oil Production. This page provides values for Crude Oil Production reported in several countries part of Europe. The table has current values for Crude Oil Production...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tradingeconomics.com


So why are they still importing Oil and Gas from Russia???


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570724704306233344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570724712044699654


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570784211531083782

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570794027372675074

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570784318414553088

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SIPRA

Putin's today's press conference, in Samarkand, was extremely cool and confident.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570823900640182274

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570829847429251073

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570829847429251073


What kind of fire is this? Do they see anyone coming? is it supposed to be suppressive fire? Is it aimed at a target? won't you just give away your position doing this?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570820805633904642
Ukrainians now consolidating territory east of the Oskil river

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## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> So why are they still importing Oil and Gas from Russia???
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570724704306233344
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570724712044699654


The inflation in Russia is ~ 15% and they did not cut the Gas delivery to them self, have they ?

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570812684031119360
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570816732574658565


@jhungary
Ukraine army has crossed the river in two directions. Seems the russian troops can not defend the line eastern side of the Oskil, as you suggested.
Once the breakthrough is secured, Ukraine army chasing, Luhansk will fall.


----------



## The SC




----------



## oberschlesier

The Gas storage for Winter in Europe is at ~85% and growing: https://agsi.gie.eu/


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570829680802140164


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570820055646228481





Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570817975950909441


----------



## oberschlesier

MajesticPug said:


> Stupid!! Only a citizen from the sinking nation still claims that. Should not understimate the Russian military. They might not be the smartest but they are resilient. Ask the best European and American armies. They will tell you.


They lost the WW I, The Polish-Soviet war, Politically lost the war with Finland, won WWII due to the help from the West with huge losses, lost the cold war... not very impressive...

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## Ali_Baba

oberschlesier said:


> The Gas storage for Winter in Europe is at ~85% and growing: https://agsi.gie.eu/



Putin has pulled the "oil and gas" trigger... you can only that trigger once - now there are no more bullets in Putins gun.. 

AND - the EU will, with a passion - move away from Russian energy supplies - there is no going back now - no matter what happens.

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## The SC

oberschlesier said:


> The inflation in Russia is ~ 15% and they did not cut the Gas delivery to them self, have they ?


Russia is under sanctions..isn't it?
Did you know that the inflation rates in Europe were around 8% before this war..


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## oberschlesier

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin has pulled the "oil and gas" trigger... you can only that trigger once - now there are no more bullets in Putins gun..
> 
> AND - the EU will, with a passion - move away from Russian energy supplies - there is no going back now - no matter what happens.


Exactly it`s a one way ticket for RU. It is/will be tough for the EU, but will devastating to the Russian energy sector in the long run. I dont know what they are thinking, probably they don`t.



The SC said:


> Russia is under sanctions..isn't it?
> Did you know that the inflation rates in Europe were around 8% before this war..


According to Russia, the sactions are good for them, right?

The inflation was growing already before the war due to COVID, the energy blackmail of Russia contributed to it , but it is not the decisive factor.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> You made good points, especially the peripheral issues which usually are the most visible and effects are felt by the people. Economics? Queues for products. Finance? Accounts freezes. And so on...
> 
> The core is rotten and eventually the rot will spread out to the periphery -- the people. How about the aviation industry?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian government tells pilots to repair planes on their own to save on technicians
> 
> 
> In Russia, pilots of regional flights are being told to carry out aircraft maintenance on their own, says Oleg Bocharov, deputy head of the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade, the Telegram channel Aviatorshchina reports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theins.ru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Russia, pilots of regional flights are being told to carry out aircraft maintenance on their own, says Oleg Bocharov, deputy head of the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade, the Telegram channel _Aviatorshchina_ reports.​​According to him, first of all it concerns regional aviation pilots. They have been told *to create “a fundamentally new system of maintaining airworthiness.”*​
> Bush pilots, not jet pilots, fixes their own planes. Passengers going to the outback understands the greater risks of *HOW* they are getting to where they want, but passengers going home for the holidays or business are not supposed to consider such risks. But now, Russian general aviation was told to create a new airworthiness standards just for Russia.
> 
> I thought this 'news' came from The Onion. But if true, all I can say is 'My God...'


They can't rebuild or reform, when the core of their ideology is not replaceable. 

And there is nothing they can replace that with. At this point, Russia will probably have a better home defence if they contract the PLA to do the job. At this rate, I don't think anyone would believe in Russian military capability......


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570856580404641794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570852376143335425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570847788434599936


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> @jhungary
> Ukraine army has crossed the river in two directions. Seems the russian troops can not defend the line eastern side of the Oskil, as you suggested.
> Once the breakthrough is secured, Ukraine army chasing, Luhansk will fall.


The Kharkiv situation now is like back in 1973 when the Egyptian breached the Israeli defence in Sinai across the Suez.

There are defensive position across the Oksil river, but there are no defensive line, much like in Sinai. Defensive position can only maintain pressure at certain point, not across the whole line (That is exactly why the lose Balakliia in the first place), the Russian there did not build any defensive line at Balakliia in anticipation of a Ukrainian counter attack, they will most certainly will not build one 60-70 km from the front line, well, then frontline I should say.

Problem is, even if they had prepared for one, I don't think they have enough troop to hold the line shoulder to shoulder. Which mean Ukrainian are going to play the same games again sometime in the future, which is to locate the weak point and concentrate the force and attack them, then exploit the area. Not saying that they can, but they will most definitely try it.

As for whether or not Luhansk will fall, that's quite depends on the Eastern Offensive. There are report from both Russian and Ukrainian side that Ukrainian had crossed the Siveriky Donet river over Novodruzhesk, if these Ukrainian is not beaten back, I am pretty sure their objective is to go around Sieverodonetsk and attack from the rear, possibly with a simultaneous attack from Bilohorivk to take the high ground next to Lysychansk, if the Ukrainian can pull this off, they can cut across the Starobilsk and probably went back to pre-2022 line, if the report of Starobilsk being evacuated is true, this is doable.

But then taking the entire Luhansk Oblast would be a tough fight, I don't think Ukrainian have enough heavy weapon to overcome the post 2014 defensive line, not at least until they finished up in Kherson, it could be either before or after winter, I don't think Kherson can hold out forever, the writing are on the wall with the most prominent being they have called off the referendum.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570850496675737604

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570850501985730560


----------



## Reashot Xigwin



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570859376407351296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570862856824037382

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570797760689098756
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570784803250925570
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570743712715804672
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570760453089005569


Why are you posting this russian propaganda?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Factory fresh T-90M tanks delivered to the front from the Ural tank factory.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570793958313426944

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## aziqbal

unless Ukraine does not get more mechanised armour to move forward this offensive attack will stall 

however how exactly Ukraine has managed to pull of such a massive counter attack is surprising 

and the Russians have been caught off guard 

one thing I will say is that Russia did not find a solution to those HIMARS and those HIMARS absolutely devastated the Russian ammo dumps 

Western nations really did do a well co-ordinated attack against all the high value targets using HMARS and their potential was exploited

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570122591616249856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570428791721459712
SM-6 ground launchers now somewhere in Europe

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## MeFishToo

thetutle said:


> What kind of fire is this? Do they see anyone coming? is it supposed to be suppressive fire? Is it aimed at a target? won't you just give away your position doing this?


Winning the fire fight, preventing the enemy from doing whatever theyre trying to do. Thousends of rounds are probably fired straight at nothing, but it prevents the enemy from moving. The most obvious thing to do would be to keep your head down, especialy if youre not motivated to actually reach your objective.


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## Hack-Hook

zartosht said:


> -There has been no collapse of Russian lines. The Russians have made calculated withdraws with reargaurd action, while slaughtering ukies with artillery


by looking at what left behind i'm 100% sure the retreat neither was calculated nor there is any discipline in Russian soldiers while retreating



zartosht said:


> Imagine yourself a Russian commander. Dumb ukies have massed 30 k troops with everything they have to attck lightly defended kherson. Do you make the militarily wise choice of making a orderly withdral while mass slaughtering ukies in the process? Or
> Do you send in reinforcements to fight on poor odds, just for pr points?


orderly withdrawal mean destroying what ammunition and armor you want leave behind and boobytrap abandoned fortification , not live everything behind intact and in working conditiion and not even try to mine a single road


----------



## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> unless Ukraine does not get more mechanised armour to move forward this offensive attack will stall
> 
> however how exactly Ukraine has managed to pull of such a massive counter attack is surprising
> 
> and the Russians have been caught off guard
> 
> one thing I will say is that Russia did not find a solution to those HIMARS and those HIMARS absolutely devastated the Russian ammo dumps
> 
> Western nations really did do a well co-ordinated attack against all the high value targets using HMARS and their potential was exploited


Well, seeing I have been saying this since July with @Oldman1 here, it's not at all surprise Ukraine will make this counter attack toward Kupiansk, I mean, if I can see it, people in high ranking Ukrainian and Russian military should have been able to see it too. The only surprise is why they do it so late.

And Ukraine don't need more mechanised armour to continue with this offensive, in fact, doing so will make it harder to consolidate their gain. Right now, Russian is try to make a collective defence, you will expect Russia will retreat some more after they found a suitable location and a balance of troop level to make defence. Also, Ukrainian had broken thru 2 out of 3 exit point toward East of Oskil Rivier, they have taken Eastern Bank in Kupiansk in the north, and they had crossed the Oksil in Borova in the middle, and only Lyman in the south is left with Russian hand, it's not going to be long before they finish consolidating and move on with another offensive with new Troop, according to Zelenskyy, he named 4 Brigades (14, 25, 80 and 92) as part of the Counter Offensive, which mean there are another 5 behind held back, including the battle hardened 93, 81 and 54 Brigade. They don't lack of fresh men to continue with the assault.

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## jhungary

Apparently, the Russian Official told the people in Izyum and Balakliia that Russia had taken Kyiv.......






That's probably why these people are surprised that the Ukrainian came and liberate their city......

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## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570859376407351296
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570862856824037382


More tiktoks to shoot fleeing russian conscripts in the back? 

No one is impressed by these chechen lackeys. The real warriors died fighting the russians.

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## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> Well, seeing I have been saying this since July with @Oldman1 here, it's not at all surprise Ukraine will make this counter attack toward Kupiansk, I mean, if I can see it, people in high ranking Ukrainian and Russian military should have been able to see it too. The only surprise is why they do it so late.
> 
> And Ukraine don't need more mechanised armour to continue with this offensive, in fact, doing so will make it harder to consolidate their gain. Right now, Russian is try to make a collective defence, you will expect Russia will retreat some more after they found a suitable location and a balance of troop level to make defence. Also, Ukrainian had broken thru 2 out of 3 exit point toward East of Oskil Rivier, they have taken Eastern Bank in Kupiansk in the north, and they had crossed the Oksil in Borova in the middle, and only Lyman in the south is left with Russian hand, it's not going to be long before they finish consolidating and move on with another offensive with new Troop, according to Zelenskyy, he named 4 Brigades (14, 25, 80 and 92) as part of the Counter Offensive, which mean there are another 5 behind held back, including the battle hardened 93, 81 and 54 Brigade. They don't lack of fresh men to continue with the assault.


According to the source I follow (war in Ukraine) 54 is part of the defence south of Donesk. 81 and 93 is south of Donets river, and he is wondering why Ukraine doesnt follow up the assault with the forces (81, 93) not need to defend against the Izium bridgehead anymore.


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## NotSure

Noo, not the Heartland. More than a century later and the angloids are still not controlling the heartland. Mackinder must be rotating in his grave.

But maybe GB can use it to generate energy, after they are cut off from russian gas?









https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1663/35/1663357354311346.jpg[/IMG]




https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1663/36/1663361316727971.jpg


----------



## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> According to the source I follow (war in Ukraine) 54 is part of the defence south of Donesk. 81 and 93 is south of Donets river, and he is wondering why Ukraine doesnt follow up the assault with the forces (81, 93) not need to defend against the Izium bridgehead anymore.


Sorry, I meant 95th Air Mobile Brigade, which is last reported north of Sloviansk, which is the original unit pre-2014. 54 formed after 2014. And was involved in Mariupol, I don't know why I wrote 54, maybe thinking of something else.

All 3 were held at reserve at the moment, their troop strength should be effective as they are not active for months, that's most likely points to a Breakout from the Southeast.


----------



## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> Noo, not the Heartland. More than a century later and the angloids are still not controlling the heartland. Mackinder must be rotating in his grave.
> 
> But maybe GB can use it to generate energy, after they are cut off from russian gas?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1663/35/1663357354311346.jpg[/IMG]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1663/36/1663361316727971.jpg


Russia It`s not the heartland. It`s a semi-periphery( now more a periphery? ) to the center that is more/less a line coming from London to Milan.
Even, If you cut 5% of the GDP from the Center( now: Energy Crisis ) and 10% from the "Periphery"( now: Sanctions), the "Periphery" would still have a 4x smaller economy.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570867651613986818

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570864132584505344


----------



## NotSure

oberschlesier said:


> It`s not the heartland. It`s a semi-periphery( now more a semi-periphery? ) to the center that is more/less a line coming from London to Milan.
> Even, If you cut 5% of the GDP from the Center( now: Energy Crisis ) and 10% from the "Periphery"( now: Sanctions), the "Periphery" would still have a smaller economy.


And don't forget Warsaw as the center of the heartland. Muahaha.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570879548413317120


----------



## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> Sorry, I meant 95th Air Mobile Brigade, which is last reported north of Sloviansk, which is the original unit pre-2014. 54 formed after 2014. And was involved in Mariupol, I don't know why I wrote 54, maybe thinking of something else.
> 
> All 3 were held at reserve at the moment, their troop strength should be effective as they are not active for months, that's most likely points to a Breakout from the Southeast.


That makes sense. 95 used to be reported northwest of Sloviansk (part of the defence against Izium bridgehead).


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570884675975155712
Russian Nazi cruelty

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570885909406715904


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570881160695402496

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570884675975155712
> Russian Nazi cruelty


Makes you wonder if you _have_ to be a complete idiot in order to join the russian armed forces.

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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Why are you posting this russian propaganda?


You are propaganda itself.. go educate yourself..You are a real ignorant with your pairs.. you should feel idiotic posting argument just to argue fact on the ground..

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## F-22Raptor

MeFishToo said:


> Makes you wonder if you _have_ to be a complete idiot in order to join the russian armed forces.



The uncovering of war crimes in Mauripol will be especially horrific. Huge mass graves can be seen there from space.


----------



## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> And don't forget Warsaw as the center of the heartland. Muahaha.


Nope, Right now Frankfurt is the Center.

Anyways, Warsaw has a bigger income per capita as Moscow has btw


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> Go f**k yourself.. you are propaganda itself.. go educate yourself..You are a real ignorant with your pairs.. you should feel idiotic posting argument just to argue fact on the ground..


Just wondering why a canadian is quoting Putins mouthpieces, thats all. Lets not pretend Kremlin propaganda is actually facts on the ground.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570676754997727232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570691188927209473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570706203696631809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570869815069528064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570869863094325249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570817246867632128


----------



## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> NATO isn't united. It is fragmented like never before. Ukraine is in doldrums. A country ravaged by Russian intervention. You can try to paint a rosy picture, but Ukraine is indeed the bigger loser in this conflict. Russia is expected to distance itself further from EU orbit. EU clout over Russia due to energy supplies has already diminished to zero. A Chinese Russian resurgence is a reality.
> 
> I have also read the deceiving headlines in Western media when Putin met Xi LOL Trying to twist the positive meeting as a negative one. The headlines reveal how insecure the Western powers are regarding a Russian Sino nexus.


Well if this is how they can kick his *** not united. Imagine what they would do if they were united. Hope for Putin's sake they stay 'fragmented'.



Zarvan said:


> Every body though in a week war will be over and Ukraine will surrender. They proved all wrong including me. I thought Russia will capture entire Ukraine but then some sort of insurgency will start and go for years. Never expected this to happen.


Not just you. This was what NATO had anticipated. Thats why it was just defensive weapons. After the Afghan Govt collapse , nobody expected anything. They thought the Govt will be evacuated and this will be over.



Han Patriot said:


> Right, Russians are not even doing it the proper American way, kill 500k civilians and bomb the hell outta Iraq. What do you think shock and awe was about. Its about the lust for Muslim blood okay, after 911.
> 
> And that's supposed to be good for the world? One superpower? What happened to equality and freedom. China is fighting for a multipolar world. You dimwits are fighting for the Empire.
> 
> 
> What, Iraq was intact right? No carpet bombing, no civilians killed, all using precision weapons OnLEE. US is the good guy.... Lol
> 
> 
> You can't explain this to these fanatics. The current mess was created by US and yet they think they are 'helping' Ukraine. These idiots are supporting the prolonged suffering of Ukraine. They are now trying to make us kill our own Han brethren in Taiwan. This is how the empire is maintained, divide and conquer.


Dude, you have complete freedom of choice to start a thread that says 'US is evil and here is why' and we will join that. This thread is about the war in Europe. Just because its going badly for one side doesn't mean that everybody on the other side is an angel or morally correct.

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## Zarvan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The day Kiev army stop shelling Donbas civilians is the day the war ends. Which is never.


War needs to end soon. Donbas is part of Ukraine how about Rrussia gets inside its own borders

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Zarvan said:


> War needs to end soon. Donbas is part of Ukraine how about Rrussia gets inside its own borders



Tell that to the Americans who attacked Serbia to protect Kosovars. Russia has the right to protect the people of Donbas from Kiev artillery after Euro Maidan.

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> It is an enormous joy to see these US/NATO trolls spend every minute of the day arguing like crazy in this topic. Do these people even have a job I wonder...


Not half as entertaining to watch the fans of Putin feel sad and troll only the same twitter feeds that Putin is tracking (its all good news there) and then bring back the prior wars. All imperial powers are bad and kill people. You turn it into , 'well US killed so many people'. Half of us posted on this forum 15 years ago about the drone destruction US was causing. But this thread is not about what NATO/US did 15 years ago. Its about whats going on now



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Tell that to the Americans who attacked Serbia to protect Kosovars. Russia has the right to protect the people of Donbas from Kiev artillery after Euro Maidan.


And the Serbs deserved it for butchering the Bosnians. You can accuse the US of selective on where it decides to call the morality card. Kashmiris and Palestenians be damned

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## PakFactor

aviator_fan said:


> Not half as entertaining to watch the fans of Putin feel sad and troll only the same twitter feeds that Putin is tracking (its all good news there) and then bring back the prior wars. All imperial powers are bad and kill people. You turn it into , 'well US killed so many people'. Half of us posted on this forum 15 years ago about the drone destruction US was causing. But this thread is not about what NATO/US did 15 years ago. Its about whats going on now
> 
> 
> *And the Serbs deserved it for butchering the Bosnians. You can accuse the US of selective on where it decides to call the morality card. Kashmiris and Palestenians be damned*



Of course, permanent interest matters at the end of the day.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570917823781965824

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570769051340910592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570423339122044935


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, SEPTEMBER 16​Sep 16, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*
Katherine Lawlor, Grace Mappes, Mason Clark, and Frederick W. Kagan
September 16, 8pm ET *​*Click here to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The revelations of mass graves of civilians and torture chambers in newly liberated Izyum confirm ISW’s previous assessments that the Bucha atrocities were not isolated war crimes but rather a microcosm of Russian atrocities throughout Russian-occupied areas. *The Ukrainian General Staff published images on September 16 showing a mass burial site in Izyum, Kharkiv Oblast and noting that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that the site contained more than 400 bodies showing signs of torture and brutality.[1] The Ukrainian Ministry of Reintegration reported that the number of war crimes victims in Izyum may exceed those of Bucha.[2] The head of Ukraine’s National Police, Ihor Klymenko, stated that Ukrainian officials have found 10 Russian torture chambers in Vovchansk, Kupyansk, Balaklia, and Izyum.[3] One torture chamber was reportedly located in the Balakliya police department, where “Russians wore masks and tortured civilians with bare electric wires,” according to Andriy Nebytov, the head of the National Police Main Directorate in the Kyiv region.[4]
ISW Non-Resident Fellow Nataliya Bugayova had warned in April 2022 that “Bucha is an observable microcosm of a deliberate Russian terror campaign against Ukrainians. Similar intentional atrocities are happening throughout Russian-occupied areas in Ukraine.”[5] Ukrainian officials will likely continue to find evidence of Russian war crimes and atrocities as Ukrainian forces liberate occupied areas.
*Russian President Vladimir Putin appeared to threaten increased attacks on Ukrainian civilian infrastructure if reported Ukrainian attacks on Russian military positions in Russian Federation territory continue. *Putin said that Russia has been “rather restrained in our response” to Ukrainian “terrorist acts [and] attempts to damage our civilian [sic] infrastructure” in a question-and-answer session with reporters following the Shanghai Cooperation Organization meeting on September 16.[6] He continued “more recently, the Russian armed forces have dealt a couple of sensitive blows” that are “warning shots,” and threatened that more serious attacks could follow. Putin did not explicitly refer to the reported Ukrainian strikes on the base of the Russian 3rd Motorized Rifle Division near Valuyki that occurred on September 16, nor did he make clear which Russian actions he was referring to. But Russian forces have increased attacks on civilian infrastructure throughout Ukraine over the past several weeks as Russian media personalities increase explicit calls for such attacks.[7]
Putin’s comments are likely in part a response to criticism by Russian milbloggers, who attacked the Kremlin for failing to protect Russian territory and for failing to respond adequately. One milblogger asked if the Kremlin still regards Belgorod Oblast as part of Russia, part of the “special military operation” zone, or part of Ukraine.*[8]* Another blamed the reported Ukrainian attack on Valuyki on the so-called “regrouping” of Russian forces (referring to the initial language the Russian Ministry of Defense used to describe the rout of Russian forces in Kharkiv Oblast) and warned that another “regrouping” could allow Ukrainian forces to attack other critical Russian areas.*[9]* Putin has increasingly shown a determination to appease the milbloggers and the constituencies they speak to and on behalf of, even at the expense of the uniformed Russian military and the Russian Ministry of Defense.
*The Ukrainian Resistance Center warned on September 16 that Russian forces are planning to conduct false flag attacks against civilian population in Russian-occupied Ukraine and urged Ukrainians in occupied areas to avoid public places between September 17 and September 20.[10] *The Resistance Center suggested that such false flag attacks could be attempts to “divert the attention of the world community from the defeat in Kharkiv and the discovery of Russian war crimes” in liberated areas.
*Correction: ISW's 9/15/2022 update contained several errors. We mistakenly located the Kinburn Spit in Crimea rather than Kherson Oblast. We reported Ukrainian attacks northwest of Kharkiv City rather than Kherson City. And we reported Ukrainian operations continuing southwest of Izyum, near Lyman, instead of southeast of Izyum. We apologize for these errata, which have been corrected in the 9/15 update text.
Key Takeaways*

*The discovery of mass graves and torture chambers in liberated Izyum confirm previous ISW assessments that the Bucha atrocities were emblematic of Russian activities in occupied areas rather than an anomaly.*
*Russian President Vladimir Putin apparently threatened to expand Russia’s attacks on civilian Ukrainian infrastructure if Ukraine continues reported attacks on military facilities in Russia.*
*The Ukrainian Resistance Center warned that Russian forces may conduct false flag attacks in occupied areas between September 17 and September 20.*
*Ukrainian forces captured all of Kupyansk City on September 16, continuing offensive operations east of the Oskil River.*
*Ukrainian forces reportedly shelled targets in Valuyki, Belgorod Oblast, Russia, overnight on September 15-16.*
*Ukrainian forces struck Russia’s occupation headquarters in Kherson, likely using HIMARS, and are continuing ground maneuvers in three areas of Kherson Oblast as part of the ongoing southern counteroffensive.*
*Russian administrative officials are rallying around Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov’s call for “self-mobilization” at a local level to provide additional forces to the Russian military.*
*Forced Russian mobilization campaigns are likely depleting male populations in parts of the claimed territory of the Russian proxy Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) along the front lines.*
*Immediate and coordinated Russian information responses suggest that Ukrainian partisans may not be responsible for the September 16 assassination of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Prosecutor General and his deputy.*

*

*
*
We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Vovchansk-Kupyansk-Izyum-Lyman Line)*
*

*
Ukrainian forces captured all of Kupyansk City on September 16, continuing offensive operations east of the Oskil River. Russian milbloggers initially reported that Ukrainian forces captured eastern Kupyansk before claiming that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian advances.[11] Geolocated footage confirms that Ukrainian forces established positions on the east bank of the Oskil River in Kupyansk, however.[12] Russian forces will likely struggle to hold positions in eastern Kharkiv Oblast and in northern Luhansk Oblast as Ukrainian forces establish more positions on the east bank of the Oskil River, the line at which Ukrainian forces had halted on September 11. ISW has previously assessed on September 13 that Russian forces are likely too weak to prevent further Ukrainian advances along the entire Oskil River if Ukrainian forces choose to resume offensive operations.[13] Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) People’s Militia sources additionally claimed that Ukrainian forces struck Nyzhnia Duvanka (20km north of Svatove, Luhansk Oblast) with HIMARS.[14]
Ukrainian forces reportedly shelled targets in Valuyki, Belgorod Oblast, Russia, overnight on September 15-16. Belgorod Oblast Governor Vyacheslav Gladkov claimed that Ukrainian rounds struck a power substation in central Belgorod, and footage depicts damaged buildings and cars.[15] A Russian source claimed that Ukrainian forces fired over 20 rounds at Valuyki from positions 20km southwest of the city, which is within Ukrainian tube artillery range.[16] The attack appears to have struck a base of the Russian 3rd Motorized Rifle Division just north of Valuyki.[17] Russian sources posted images of a Tochka-U missile that reportedly struck Valuyki, but the images cannot be geolocated.[18]
Valuyki is situated on a critical Russian rail line to northern Luhansk Oblast. Ukrainian forces have cut Russian Ground Lines of Communication (GLOCs) through Kharkiv Oblast, likely forcing Russian forces to redirect logistics from the large bases and concentration points around Belgorod City through the Valuyki rail line. Sustained damage to this rail line would severely complicate Russian logistics supporting the Russian defense of Luhansk Oblast and eastern Kharkiv Oblast. A Russian source stated that the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) 206th Regiment is defending in Russia itself near Valuyki, indicating Russia is deploying proxy forces to screen Russian logistics – and additionally indicating the increasing Russian reliance on proxy forces for tasks even in Russia.[19] Gladkov and other sources stated that Ukrainian forces shelled additional Russian settlements on and near the Kharkiv-Belgorod Oblast border.[20]
Russian forces continued to defend against Ukrainian counteroffensive operations in northeastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces shelled Pristyn, northeast of Izyum on the west bank of the Oskil River, likely to prevent Ukrainian forces from establishing another bridgehead over the river.[21] The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) People’s Milita stated that Russian forces continue to defend Lyman from Ukrainian ground attacks and shelling.[22] Geolocated images from September 15 confirm that Russian forces maintain positions in Lyman.[23] However, the Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces shelled Lyman, indicating that Ukrainian forces may have made some gains around the settlement.[24]
Ukrainian sources confirmed previous reports that Ukrainian forces struck Russian rear positions in Luhansk Oblast on September 15. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on September 16 that Ukrainian forces struck a Russian concentration area causing many casualties among Russian servicemen in Perevalsk, Luhansk Oblast, likely on September 15.[25] Geolocated images show the aftermath of a Ukrainian strike on a LNR base in Kadiivka, also likely from September 15.[26] ISW reported on Russian claims of a series of Ukrainian strikes in rear Luhansk Oblast, including Perevalsk and Kadiivka, on September 15.[27]
*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
*

*
Ukrainian military officials are continuing their operational silence regarding the progress of the southern counteroffensive, noting that fighting continued along the southern axis without reporting any territorial changes.[28] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces continued counter-battery fire against Ukrainian positions and attempted to regroup frontline troops.[29] Ukrainian government and local sources reported mounting Russian casualties and the deployment of low-quality Russian units along the Kherson front. Local Russian media in the city of Ufa reported that members of the Shaymuratov volunteer battalion, operating around Mykolayiv, have not communicated with Ufa residents for over a week. The wife of one volunteer stated the Russian Ministry of Defense is not picking up her calls and that recruitment centers only state that the volunteers are abroad.[30]
Ukrainian forces struck Russia’s occupation headquarters in Kherson, likely using HIMARS, on September 16. Local social media reported that five Ukrainian rockets struck the Kherson Administrative Court building, which houses Russia’s occupation administration, and depicted heavy damage.[31] The Russian-appointed deputy head of the Kherson Occupation Administration stated the strike occurred during a meeting of Russian-appointed city and municipal heads.[32] Occupation authorities reported three deaths as of 1550 local time.[33] Kherson Oblast deputy occupation head Kirill Stremousov and several Russian milbloggers reported that Ukraine used HIMARS to conduct the strike.[34] Ukraine’s Kherson Oblast Military Administration Advisor Serhiy Khlan confirmed that Ukrainian forces struck Russian occupation authorities on September 16 and destroyed a Rosgvardia base in the city center on an unspecified date, warning civilians in occupied Kherson to stay away from Russian positions.[35] Ukraine’s ongoing interdiction campaign in the Kherson region continues to degrade Russia’s ability to administer occupied territory, in addition to disrupting Russian military logistics.
Ukrainian military officials stated that Ukrainian forces continued their interdiction campaign on September 16, targeting Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) across the Inhulets and Dnipro Rivers and notably disrupting Russian food and water supplies.[36] GUR reported that Ukrainian strikes have cut off Russian troops in Kherson from their food and water supplies, and that an unspecified Russian Air Assault unit based in Kakhovka (in Russian rear areas on the left bank of the river) cannot supply its frontline units.[37] The Ukrainian General Staff claimed that Ukrainian strikes are severely degrading Russian morale.[38] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian missile and artillery units struck Russian concentrations in Beryslav, Darivka, and Stara Zburyvka, as well as a pontoon crossing in the Kozatske Raion.[39]
Ukrainian and Russian sources indicated three areas of kinetic activity on September 16: northwest of Kherson City, near the Ukrainian bridgehead over the Inhulets River, and south of the Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border west of Vysokopillya. Milbloggers and DNR officials claimed that Russian VDV (airborne) forces repelled a Ukrainian attack near Pravdyne (northwest of Kherson City) on September 16.[40] However, Ukraine’s General Staff reported Russian forces shelled Ukrainian positions in Pravdyne, indicating Ukrainian forces have likely at minimum entered the town.[41] Geolocated footage depicted a DNR military correspondent in Oleksandrivka (directly west of Kherson) on September 16, confirming that Russian forces retain control of the town despite recent Ukrainian assaults.[42] Imagery released by pro-Russian telegram channels confirmed that Russian forces repelled an assault by Ukrainian naval infantry in the Andriivka area (near the Ukrainian bridgehead over the Inhulets River) on September 16.[43] Russian milbloggers reported that Ukrainian forces continue to deploy troops and equipment to the Andriivka and Bilohirka areas but that rising water levels in the Inhulets River due to Russian strikes on dams in Kryvyi Rih have blocked half of the Ukrainian crossing points.[44] Ukraine’s General Staff reported Russian forces shelled Novopetrivka (south of Kryvyi Rih) on September 16, suggesting that Ukrainian forces occupy the town despite previous Russian claims to have repelled Ukrainian attacks on the town.[45]
*Russian Main Effort- Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
*

*
Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks across the Eastern Axis and continued routine fire along the line of contact on September 16.[46] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground assaults directly on Bakhmut and south of that city, against Avdiivka, and southwest of Donetsk City.[47] Ukrainian Donetsk Oblast Head Pavlo Kyrylenko stated that Russian forces used S-300 anti-air systems in a ground-attack role to strike Selydove, likely to cut Ukrainian logistics lines between southern Donetsk Oblast and central Ukraine.[48] Russian forces have previously used air defense systems to strike ground targets in southern Ukraine and Kharkiv Oblast but have not previously done so extensively in the east, indicating further Russian deficiencies in precision fire munitions. Geolocated footage shows Russian forces striking Ukrainian positions east of Spirne on an unspecified date.[49]
*Supporting Effort- Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces did not conduct any ground assaults in Zaporizhia Oblast west of Hulyaipole and continued routine fire on the western Zaporizhia Oblast front line and against Ukrainian rear areas in Mykolaiv Oblast on September 16.[50] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces fired cruise missiles from positions in the Black Sea at port infrastructure in Ochakiv, Mykolaiv Oblast, less than 10km across the Dniprovska Gulf from the Kinburn Spit in Kherson Oblast.[51] The Russian Ministry of Defense confirmed the strike on Ochakiv.[52] Russian forces also fired on hydraulic infrastructure in Kryvyi Rih, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast again on September 16.[53]
Ukrainian forces likely struck the Melitopol airfield overnight on September 15-16. Ukrainian Melitopol Mayor Ivan Fedorov reported that explosions occurred at the airfield and posted footage of Russian air defenses activating amid multiple audible explosions.[54] Zaporizhia Occupation Administration Councilmember Vladimir Rogov reported explosions in Melitopol overnight but did not specify a cause.[55]
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Board of Governors passed a resolution on September 15 calling on Russia to cease all operations at and against the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) and any other nuclear facilities in Ukraine.[56] Russian sources denounced the IAEA resolution and claimed that Ukrainian forces again shelled the area around the ZNPP.[57] Russian forces continued routine fire on settlements on the north bank of the Kakhovka Reservoir, likely from positions in and around Enerhodar on the south bank.[58]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
*

*
Russian administrative officials are rallying around Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov’s call for “self-mobilization” at a local level to provide additional forces to the Russian military. Vladivostok City Hall confirmed on September 16 that the city administration is sending letters to men between the ages of 25 and 63 with military and reserve experience and those who are registered with their local military commissariat in Vladivostok, inviting them to join BARS (Combat Army Reserve of the Country) or Tigr (Naval Infantry) volunteer units.[59] The council emphasized that “each recipient makes their own decision.” Russian recruiters likely intend the letters to confuse recipients into thinking they have been formally and legally conscripted; the letters are in fact only invitations to discuss volunteering. The city council’s confirmation is a substantive deviation from the previous approach of Russian local administrations denying responsibility for the misleading letters. Vladivostok’s open admission indicates that Russian municipal leaders may be under pressure from federal authorities to produce set numbers of volunteer battalions.
Other local leaders announced new battalions in support of Kadyrov’s call on September 16. Kirov Oblast Governor Alexander Sokolov announced that Kirov had formed its second volunteer battalion named “Shironin” and claimed that the oblast’s Vyatka volunteer battalion is already fighting in Ukraine.[60] The Russian-appointed head of occupied Crimea, Sergey Aksyonov, reported on September 16 that Crimea is increasing its efforts to recruit volunteers.[61] Aksyonov announced that unspecified large banking institutions have joined the efforts to fund the provision of necessary and modern equipment for the volunteer battalions. Magadan Oblast Governor Sergey Nosov announced his financial support for Kadyrov’s call and called on all regions to implement self-mobilization, even small regions like his own Magadan, which has only one military recruitment center.[62] The heads of the Voronezh, Chuvashia, and Bashkiria regions also announced their support for self-mobilization and claimed that about 1,000 volunteers from each of their regions are already deployed.[63] Kemerovo Governor Sergey Tsivilev pledged financial support for volunteer battalions and claimed that many Kemerovo residents are already fighting in the Russian military.[64] Kadyrov himself announced on September 16 that two of his Chechen Akhmat battalions, Vostok and Zapad, have deployed to unspecified areas of Donbas.[65] Kadyrov also announced that he had created another “Akhmat-1” OMON unit with 2,000 heavily-armed personnel and claimed that it is not the last unit he and the Chechen Republic will field.[66] He claimed that his new unit will fire on Ukrainian and Western personnel (which Kadyrov commonly and baselessly claims are directly fighting with the Ukrainian military) in Ukraine but did not specify whether the unit has already deployed.
Likely anti-war Russian activists conducted a Molotov cocktail attack against a building that previously housed a military recruitment center and where “information about those liable for military service” was still stored in Shakhovskaya, Moscow Oblast on September 16.[67]
Forced Russian mobilization campaigns are likely depleting male populations in parts of the claimed territory of the Russian proxy Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) along the front lines. Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on September 15 that Russian forces are seeking to mobilize 6,000 local men in occupied Horlivka, Donetsk Oblast.[68] The GUR stated that Russian forces are detaining military-age men in public places like the town’s central market but noted that previous Russian mobilization campaigns (and men fleeing those mobilizations) mean that Russia has effectively eliminated the military-aged male population in Horlivka. The report stated that Horlivka men who were mobilized into the DNR’s 9th Naval Infantry Regiment, which may have been in Kherson Oblast, have not been heard from since September 11. Horlivka’s position on the front lines of the conflict likely means that Russian forces have continually drained its fighting-age men for assaults on key nearby locations like Bakhmut.
Wagner Group financier Evgeniy Prigozhin’s campaign to recruit Russian prisoners to fight in Ukraine is likely already bearing fruit. Ukraine’s Odesa Military Administration Spokesperson Serhiy Bratchuk posted footage that he said showed the first batch of Russian convicts deploying to Ukraine on September 16. Bratchuk claimed that the convoy was spotted in Tambov Oblast, Russia and was transporting 400 Russian prisoners to unspecified areas in southern Russia for training.[69] Russian propagandist Sasha Kots reshared the footage and said it appeared Wagner forces would be replenished.[70]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Unidentified assailants detonated an IED in the office of the Russian-appointed LNR Prosecutor General in Luhansk City, Luhansk Oblast, killing LNR Prosecutor General Sergey Gorenko and Deputy Prosecutor General Yekaterina Steglenko on September 16.[71] LNR head Leonid Pasechnik called the attack a “terrorist act” that demonstrated that the “Kyiv regime has gone beyond all limits.”[72] DNR Head Denis Pushilin also denounced it as a Ukrainian terrorist attack.[73] Russia’s Investigative Committee immediately ordered the opening of a criminal investigation into the attacks.[74]
The immediate and coordinated Russian responses to the attack suggests that Ukrainian partisans may not be responsible for the LNR assassinations. Ukrainian Presidential Advisor Mykhailo Podolyak did not attribute the attack to partisans, but instead offered two theories: that the killings were the result of organized crime groups feuding over sharing looted property, or that Russian forces conducted a “purge” of those who witnessed Russian war crimes.[75] Russian forces have already proven themselves capable of large-scale false-flag attacks that threaten their own personnel or infrastructure, as they did with their falsified strike on the Olenivka prison on July 28.[76]
Unidentified assailants also killed the Russian-appointed Zaporizhia Occupation Administration’s deputy head of housing and communal services, Oleg Boyko, and the Berdyansk Occupation Central Election Committee head, Lyudmyla Boyko, on September 16. Russian milbloggers blamed the couple’s death on “terrorists.”[77]
Ukrainian forces separately arrested the head of the “People’s Militia of Balakliya” on September 16 as he attempted to escape from liberated Kupyansk to Russian-occupied Luhansk Oblast. Ukraine’s SBU said that the man ran recruitment for and managed the illegal pro-Russia militia on behalf of Russian occupiers.[78]


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## Reashot Xigwin

I hope china have something like this when we scoop thousands of their sailors from the Sea

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570835842255704064


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## PakAlp

Russia will do everything it can to end Ukraine war 'as soon as possible', Vladimir Putin says


The Ukrainian flag flies once again over dozens more settlements, including the key city of Izyum where a mass burial site was unearthed, as a top police investigator expressed his shock at the discovery.




news.sky.com


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakAlp said:


> Russia will do everything it can to end Ukraine war 'as soon as possible', Vladimir Putin says
> 
> 
> The Ukrainian flag flies once again over dozens more settlements, including the key city of Izyum where a mass burial site was unearthed, as a top police investigator expressed his shock at the discovery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com



The war ends as soon as Kiev army stop shelling Donbas civilians.


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## Reashot Xigwin

A gentle reminder that it is morally okay to un-live Russian.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570537796905111552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570538114992705538


PakAlp said:


> Russia will do everything it can to end Ukraine war 'as soon as possible', Vladimir Putin says
> 
> 
> The Ukrainian flag flies once again over dozens more settlements, including the key city of Izyum where a mass burial site was unearthed, as a top police investigator expressed his shock at the discovery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com



It should end with Russia leaving Ukraine for good & with Ukraine Joining NATO

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BTR-82A light tank attacking ex Dutch YPR-765 armored personnel carrier in Kherson


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570962992317206531


Reashot Xigwin said:


> It should end with Russia leaving Ukraine for good & with Ukraine Joining NATO



The world does not go the way of Anglos. Anglos failed to unify the entire human race under a single hegemony by refusing to nuke China in the 1940s when the US had nukes and China did not have nukes.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> BTR-82A light tank attacking ex Dutch YPR-765 armored personnel carrier in Kherson
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570962992317206531
> 
> 
> The world does not go the way of Anglos. Anglos failed to unify the entire human race under a single hegemony by refusing to nuke China in the 1940s when the US had nukes and China did not have nukes.


Maybe because the US aren't savages. Unlike the Russian

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Maybe because the US aren't savages. Unlike the Russian



If you want to unify the entire human race under a single hegemony you gotta be vicious like Chinese. If not, you cannot unify the entire human race under a single hegemony. The US only had one chance in the 1940s when the US had nukes and no one else had nukes.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If you want to unify the entire human race under a single hegemony you gotta be vicious like Chinese. If not, you cannot unify the entire human race under a single hegemony. The US only had one chance in the 1940s when the US had nukes and no one else had nukes.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## patero

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I hope china have something like this when we scoop thousands of their sailors from the Sea
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570835842255704064


It's hard not to get the impression from watching these Russian state tv broadcasts that even if Russia loses this war and is eventually driven out of Ukraine (looking increasingly likely), either Putin will keep his grip on power or he will be replaced by another hardliner. Russia has become another pariah state and will experience a long period of decline as Western sanctions drive the Russian economy back to the Soviet era.

And none of this was necesary, neither the war or Russias antagonistic stance with the West. Putin made enemies out of the West for no other reason than it represented a threat to his own personal power. He resents the existance of a prosperous and stable democratic West, much like his Soviet predecessors who strove for world revolution to destroy a system of government that deep down they knew was superior.

The only enemies that exist are those that the ego creates. And Putin is the individual at the heart of a Russian collective ego that has made the West its enemy (in the same manner as the CCP collective ego), remove Putin and that collective ego still exists. It may become less focused for awhile if the Russian collective ego loses its central figure, but it will simply be waiting for a new one to emerge. Egos are drawn to even stronger Egos, and after watching these Russian state broadcasts, another extremely strong ego is going to emerge from the aftermath of the war with Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570997092759539712


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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The war ends as soon as Kiev army stop shelling Donbas civilians.


Donbas is Ukraine territory. And as such it can bomb 24/7 days and nights until the separatists surrender. In fact it’s better for the world if Putin just tells them to surrender or piss off.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If you want to unify the entire human race under a single hegemony you gotta be vicious like Chinese. If not, you cannot unify the entire human race under a single hegemony. The US only had one chance in the 1940s when the US had nukes and no one else had nukes.


you are right, Xi has unified all of China where nobody can express themselves, 2 years later big cities still living in arbitrary lockdown, and Xi is ascending to the status of a life long emperor. When do us outside of China get to be under this great leader and system where unless you tow the party line, you are in jail and your every post is monitored. 

You went from spewing 'forever wars' to now saying that there is some concept of entire human race being united. Is this what the Mongols tried to do?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Donbas is Ukraine territory. And as such it can bomb 24/7 days and nights until the separatists surrender. It’s better for the world if Putin just tells them to surrender or piss off.



Says who? Donbas is majority ethnic Russian.









DIRECT TRANSLATION: 'Donbas, the Heart of Russia'


A Commentator Close to Putin Writes: Unitary Ukraine is Finished A prominent Russian business magazine, Ekspert, publishes a lead article this week by two




www.atlanticcouncil.org

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Says who? Donbas is majority ethnic Russian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DIRECT TRANSLATION: 'Donbas, the Heart of Russia'
> 
> 
> A Commentator Close to Putin Writes: Unitary Ukraine is Finished A prominent Russian business magazine, Ekspert, publishes a lead article this week by two
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.atlanticcouncil.org


Saigon’s Chinatown is full of chinese. You mean Xi Jingping can declare the enclave as chinese colony? No way, we will shell them days and nights until they piss off.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Saigon’s Chinatown is full of chinese. You mean Xi Jingping can declare the enclave as chinese colony? No way, we will shell them days and nights until they piss off.



Donbas has been historically Russian land since the medieval era. Only in 1920 did Donbas become part of Ukraine because of Soviet allocation.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Donbas has been historically Russian land since the medieval era. Only in 1920 did Donbas become part of Ukraine because of Soviet allocation.


Don’t fake history. If so then Putin can take all russians and bring them back to Moscow area. That’s the place where they came from.
Anyway that can happen if this war goes lost. Putin will see Russia disintegrate into smaller states of different ethnicities.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Don’t fake history. If so then Putin can take all russians and bring them back to Moscow area. That’s the place where they came from.



Ukrainians took Donbas. Russians take it back. By force if necessary. Americans have taught Russians. Might makes right.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571006545424711680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571004767547314183


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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukrainians took Donbas. Russians take it back. By force if necessary. Americans have taught Russians. Might makes right.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571006545424711680
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571004767547314183


Just a matter of time until those russian hooligans are dead or wounded. I mean what they can expect? many of them are ex prison inmates.

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> NATO isn't united. It is fragmented like never before. Ukraine is in doldrums. A country ravaged by Russian intervention. You can try to paint a rosy picture, but Ukraine is indeed the bigger loser in this conflict. Russia is expected to distance itself further from EU orbit. EU clout over Russia due to energy supplies has already diminished to zero. A Chinese Russian resurgence is a reality.
> 
> I have also read the deceiving headlines in Western media when Putin met Xi LOL Trying to twist the positive meeting as a negative one. The headlines reveal how insecure the Western powers are regarding a Russian Sino nexus.


This fragmented NATO and a Ukraine in doldrums brought Russia the humiliation that nobody imagined. Russia till now was considered a near super power and so a counter balance to a unipolar world. At least that was the myth. And that got busted.

Imagine if NATO were not fragmented and Ukraine was not in the 'doldrums', Putin and his cronies would be sweeping streets in Moscow right now

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## Reashot Xigwin

aviator_fan said:


> This fragmented NATO and a Ukraine in doldrums brought Russia the humiliation that nobody imagined. Russia till now was considered a near super power and so a counter balance to a unipolar world. At least that was the myth. And that got busted.
> 
> Imagine if NATO were not fragmented and Ukraine was not in the 'doldrums', Putin and his cronies would be sweeping streets in Moscow right now



Right now we just counting the clock at Russia's defeat in Ukraine. How bad are they going to lose is still up to guesses,

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571009591122759680

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Right now we just counting the clock at Russia's defeat in Ukraine. How bad are they going to lose is still up to guesses,



Doubt it. Ukraine has a quarter of Russia population. On top of that, Russia has much bigger industrial base. Ukraine compared to Russia = Confederate states compared to Union states.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Russian just being Russian as usual. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570946953969803265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570946956998082561

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## Viet

Putin did it.
He managed to revive Germany’s militarization. Thank you.
Olaf Scholz says Russia is a threat and announcing Germany armed forces must the best equipped in Europe.
Now Germany’s next step is acquiring nukes.












__





Aktuell: Bundeswehr soll wieder Kernaufgabe übernehmen


Bundeskanzler Scholz kündigt mit Blick auf den Ukraine-Krieg eine Rückbesinnung der Bundeswehr auf ihre Kernaufgabe der Landes- und Bündnisverteidigung an. Russland liefert noch mehr Erdgas nach China. Der Überblick.




amp.dw.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Putin did it.
> He managed to revive Germany’s militarization. Thank you.
> Olaf Scholz says Russia is a threat and announcing Germany armed forces must the best equipped in Europe.
> Now Germany’s next step is acquiring nukes.
> 
> 
> View attachment 880155
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aktuell: Bundeswehr soll wieder Kernaufgabe übernehmen
> 
> 
> Bundeskanzler Scholz kündigt mit Blick auf den Ukraine-Krieg eine Rückbesinnung der Bundeswehr auf ihre Kernaufgabe der Landes- und Bündnisverteidigung an. Russland liefert noch mehr Erdgas nach China. Der Überblick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.dw.com



The best equipped in Europe is Russian army.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571020818624421888

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## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The best equipped in Europe is Russian army.


With how things are going in ukraine (massive material loss) and europea re-armament…not for long. 

Russia will turn into a bigger north korea pariah state

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## MyNameAintJeff

Viet said:


> Putin did it.
> He managed to revive Germany’s militarization. Thank you.
> Olaf Scholz says Russia is a threat and announcing Germany armed forces must the best equipped in Europe.
> Now Germany’s next step is acquiring nukes.
> 
> 
> View attachment 880155
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aktuell: Bundeswehr soll wieder Kernaufgabe übernehmen
> 
> 
> Bundeskanzler Scholz kündigt mit Blick auf den Ukraine-Krieg eine Rückbesinnung der Bundeswehr auf ihre Kernaufgabe der Landes- und Bündnisverteidigung an. Russland liefert noch mehr Erdgas nach China. Der Überblick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.dw.com


With what money are they going to do that? The coming energy crisis is going to wreck havoc n their economy.
And who are they going to recruit? A very large portion of their military aged population are foreign migrants who are just there for the free gibs.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, seeing I have been saying this since July with @Oldman1 here, it's not at all surprise Ukraine will make this counter attack toward Kupiansk, I mean, if I can see it, people in high ranking Ukrainian and Russian military should have been able to see it too. The only surprise is why they do it so late.
> 
> And Ukraine don't need more mechanised armour to continue with this offensive, in fact, doing so will make it harder to consolidate their gain. Right now, Russian is try to make a collective defence, you will expect Russia will retreat some more after they found a suitable location and a balance of troop level to make defence. Also, Ukrainian had broken thru 2 out of 3 exit point toward East of Oskil Rivier, they have taken Eastern Bank in Kupiansk in the north, and they had crossed the Oksil in Borova in the middle, and only Lyman in the south is left with Russian hand, it's not going to be long before they finish consolidating and move on with another offensive with new Troop, according to Zelenskyy, he named 4 Brigades (14, 25, 80 and 92) as part of the Counter Offensive, which mean there are another 5 behind held back, including the battle hardened 93, 81 and 54 Brigade. They don't lack of fresh men to continue with the assault.


Hopefully they can take most of all of Luhansk region north of the Luhansk city prior to winter. And the added benefit of flanking the Russians in Lyman and other cities from the north as well as cripple their logistics directly from Russia in north by roads.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> lol, it's different, I can fly a Bell Ranger 50 ft above ground during the morning (I actually can), that does not mean if they give me a Blackhawk and I can replicate the same manoeuvre on it. There are a lot of different factors on flying an aircraft. You have different speed, rate of climb, dimension, power/thrust, avionic and such, all that are going to change when you switch from flying from one platform to another.
> 
> Just because Ukrainian pilot can fly low on a Mi-24 or 35, that does not make it able to do the same on a Blackhawk.


So if you few for a whole month 8 hours a day in a Blackhawk simulator provided by the military and then fly the real one for a couple of weeks, you don't think you will be certified or proficient with it?



jhungary said:


> Polish port can't really handle that much logistic, also you are not going to win a 1,3,5 battle with ship, you need to overwhelm your enemy with supplies and platform, the only way to do it is fly them into Europ and truck them across.
> 
> By the time your ship dock in Europe, the list of weapon Ukraine need may have already changed.


I think the Ukrainians will want the Humvees even a month or 2 from now. Better than seeing them in those unarmored vans and trucks they driving around. Saves lives when in Humvees where I see bullet impacts on the windows but no penetration. 



jhungary said:


> Well, some of my source of high position in Thr Southern Military command said Russian in the South is close to surrendering, the news of the Northern Front collapse did not go well with troop in the South.
> 
> So probably we should just wait and see, but if Russia decided to fight it out, this would be a bloody battle, may even be Mariupol bloody, The Ukrainian said they are ready for it, so it's just whether or not the Russia is going down that road.


Hopefully true, maybe the winter will get them to surrender as long as their logistics are still being targeted. Not to mention killing more Russians directly with HIMARS and other methods like drones with grenades at night or something. Probably even use them to keep their heads down while advancing on the trenches. 



jhungary said:


> I have looked at the map like 10 times already, and looking at troop deposition in and around East of Oksil, I just can't see how Russia can hold on to any of that. Before or after this winter.
> 
> What people don't realise is, the reason why Ukrainian make such a big progress is not just because Russia thinning out their troop, that's part of the equation, another big part is the Ukrainian Artillery and MLRS have pushed Russian Artillery outside the 30 km zone that can support the entire front, some analyst even put Russian Artillery were pushed 20 to 30 km inside Russian border. That's why they buckle without a fight.
> 
> Russian without Artillery support is like an ant without any direction, you don't know where to go, and what to do, but if you stay and fight, and you can't call artillery/air support, well, you are going to die....
> 
> That has not change as Russian move to the Eastern bank of Oksil, they still are just infantry, and they don't have much infantry to begin with. I wouldn't be surprise if Ukraine launch another Combine Arms Assault into East of Oksil the Russian line would probably buckle again.


Considering they resorted to taking criminals directly from prisons is very telling. 



jhungary said:


> Yeah, but then it also funnel Ukrainian troop. Unless they are blinded like Kharkiv again (Which I don't think they will fail twice) they know how you try to funnel them and they will just choose another spot to attack. Ukraine can't put troop and secure all the border with both Belarus and Russia. Which mean there are going to be gap, if and when Russia round that, they are going to exploit it.
> 
> But then that is assume they still have the required combat power to pull this off, most likely, nope.


Hence why the reason for long range drones and cameras and other sensors to watch the borders. And have rapid response units nearby, but mostly the border guards will be watching and waiting with anti tank missiles that can hit the vehicles going over the bridge layers. Not to mention the roads or bridges (obviously they will be blocked just like Ukrainian-Belarus border) that connects to the two countries would funnel the Russians as well.



jhungary said:


> Apparently, the Russian Official told the people in Izyum and Balakliia that Russia had taken Kyiv.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably why these people are surprised that the Ukrainian came and liberate their city......


Russians also saying they are losing because of African Americans...


----------



## Viet

MyNameAintJeff said:


> With what money are they going to do that? The coming energy crisis is going to wreck havoc n their economy.
> And who are they going to recruit? A very large portion of their military aged population are foreign migrants who are just there for the free gibs.


Where to take the money? From tax payers from whom else? That means I will pay for Germany militarization, too. By the way Germany current account surplus in 2020 is 230 billion euros.
Instead of investing in China or give loans or make donations to other countries Germany can put the 230 billion per year money into the military that’s no problem with money at all.
As for recruits that’s indeed a problem.
I am all for foreign fighters.

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## NotSure

dBSPL said:


> LOL


Btw: Whats your source for these pics?


----------



## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> by looking at what left behind i'm 100% sure the retreat neither was calculated nor there is any discipline in Russian soldiers while retreating
> 
> 
> orderly withdrawal mean destroying what ammunition and armor you want leave behind and boobytrap abandoned fortification , not live everything behind intact and in working conditiion and not even try to mine a single road


Not to mention leaving many of your comrades behind without letting them know why.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571045082413006849

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571041481229742080

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## gambit

patero said:


> It's hard not to get the impression from watching these Russian state tv broadcasts that even if Russia loses this war and is eventually driven out of Ukraine (looking increasingly likely), either Putin will keep his grip on power or he will be replaced by another hardliner. Russia has become another pariah state and will experience a long period of decline as Western sanctions drive the Russian economy back to the Soviet era.
> 
> And none of this was necesary, neither the war or Russias antagonistic stance with the West. Putin made enemies out of the West for no other reason than it represented a threat to his own personal power. He resents the existance of a prosperous and stable democratic West, much like his Soviet predecessors who strove for world revolution to destroy a system of government that deep down they knew was superior.
> 
> The only enemies that exist are those that the ego creates. And Putin is the individual at the heart of a Russian collective ego that has made the West its enemy (in the same manner as the CCP collective ego), remove Putin and that collective ego still exists. It may become less focused for awhile if the Russian collective ego loses its central figure, but it will simply be waiting for a new one to emerge. Egos are drawn to even stronger Egos, and after watching these Russian state broadcasts, another extremely strong ego is going to emerge from the aftermath of the war with Ukraine.


Very good, sir.

Famous sci-fi author Frank Herbert expanded on the classic 'Power corrupt' adage: "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.”

The ever temporary solution, aka band-aid, to this dilemma is to disperse the governmental mechanisms of power that are necessary and available to a leader who know this and tries to consolidate said mechanisms when in office. Russia seems to be the perpetual exemplar of the successful consolidation of mechanisms of power which then feeds that personal ego from one generation to the next.

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## patero

gambit said:


> Very good, sir.
> 
> Famous sci-fi author Frank Herbert expanded on the classic 'Power corrupt' adage: "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.”
> 
> The ever temporary solution, aka band-aid, to this dilemma is to disperse the governmental mechanisms of power that are necessary and available to a leader who know this and tries to consolidate said mechanisms when in office. Russia seems to be the perpetual exemplar of the successful consolidation of mechanisms of power which then feeds that personal ego from one generation to the next.


I remember our friend Suvorov making much the same point about Russian political leadership, whether it was the Tsars or the Bolsheviks or Stalin, and now Putin continuing a Russian tradition of ego-dominated autocrats.

Imagine what Russia could have been like today if instead of Putin someone like Navalny had succeeded Yeltsin. With the oil revenues earned while the prices were high Russia could have truly prospered, diversifying their economy, investing more in infrastructure and a larger manufacturing base and high tech industries. Without the need of an ego creating imaginary enemies, a Navalny type leader could have even made Russia an EU member and possibly joined Nato, becoming a responsible member of the European and international community. 

Instead, they have the man who has led them into this mess, and there doesn't seem to be a way out for them

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## PakAlp

patero said:


> It's hard not to get the impression from watching these Russian state tv broadcasts that even if Russia loses this war and is eventually driven out of Ukraine (looking increasingly likely), either Putin will keep his grip on power or he will be replaced by another hardliner. Russia has become another pariah state and will experience a long period of decline as Western sanctions drive the Russian economy back to the Soviet era.
> 
> And none of this was necesary, neither the war or Russias antagonistic stance with the West. Putin made enemies out of the West for no other reason than it represented a threat to his own personal power. He resents the existance of a prosperous and stable democratic West, much like his Soviet predecessors who strove for world revolution to destroy a system of government that deep down they knew was superior.
> 
> The only enemies that exist are those that the ego creates. And Putin is the individual at the heart of a Russian collective ego that has made the West its enemy (in the same manner as the CCP collective ego), remove Putin and that collective ego still exists. It may become less focused for awhile if the Russian collective ego loses its central figure, but it will simply be waiting for a new one to emerge. Egos are drawn to even stronger Egos, and after watching these Russian state broadcasts, another extremely strong ego is going to emerge from the aftermath of the war with Ukraine.



Russia made enmity with the west because they are slowly surrounding Russia, the same plan is implemented against China. The only thing is these countries are too weak to respond to the threat and Russia tried to respond and has failed.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Hopefully they can take most of all of Luhansk region north of the Luhansk city prior to winter. And the added benefit of flanking the Russians in Lyman and other cities from the north as well as cripple their logistics directly from Russia in north by roads.


As I said, it's strange that they pull some Brigade in reserve and did not commit them into the war, and these Brigade were all battle hardened, if that was me, I would want them to be on the forefront of my offensive. 

Something tells me this counter offensive is not yet over, they crossed the East bank of Oksil at Kupiansk and Borova, and co-incidentally the 3 Brigade I talked about (81, 93 and 95) are all somewhere North/Northwest of Slovinask, it would surprise me if the Ukrainian launch another counter offensive to dislodge Russia from Sloviansk axis.


----------



## Viet

Kiew presents the plan for post war period.

1) the Ukrainian army is to be equipped and trained for the future, so that it can repel further Russian attacks.

2) Security guarantee by the United States, United Kingdom, Germany, Canada, Poland, Italy, France, Australia, Turkey, the countries of northern Europe and the Baltic states.

3) NATO accession remains the long term goal.





__





Ukraine calls for postwar security guarantees


In a new blueprint for a postwar order, several countries are to guarantee Ukraine's security as a precursor to NATO membership. Russia has expressed its disapproval in no uncertain terms.




amp.dw.com


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> So if you few for a whole month 8 hours a day in a Blackhawk simulator provided by the military and then fly the real one for a couple of weeks, you don't think you will be certified or proficient with it?



I don't know, most likely not. 

You need to actaully feel the aircraft when you fly it, there are something you can't just replicate with a simulator, that's why you need flying hours to fly a chopper or any aircraft. 

I mean I am not going to say that for all the pilots out there, but if this was me, I probably can't



Oldman1 said:


> I think the Ukrainians will want the Humvees even a month or 2 from now. Better than seeing them in those unarmored vans and trucks they driving around. Saves lives when in Humvees where I see bullet impacts on the windows but no penetration.



Well, that's why I said they probably need them after the war. 2 months from now the Ukrainian would have another set of equipment they want, and you can either give that to them or send the Humvee. I mean, they should transfer the Humvee but not in that 1000 or 2000 range, that would take up a lot of resource just to ship there.



Oldman1 said:


> Hopefully true, maybe the winter will get them to surrender as long as their logistics are still being targeted. Not to mention killing more Russians directly with HIMARS and other methods like drones with grenades at night or something. Probably even use them to keep their heads down while advancing on the trenches.



Judging by the movement, it seems like the Ukrainian want to encircle Russian troop at Kherson, I mean if they want to go in and take Kherson, they would not do that. They would just assault their position followed by a rage of artillery fire. But it seems like they are waiting on the Eastern Arm to cut the gap and take Nova Karkova first, I mean either they just want to starve the Russian out or they are trying to treat it like a main event, attack when all 3 pronge are in place, but I don't think it's necessary for them to wait. 

So I don't know....



Oldman1 said:


> Considering they resorted to taking criminals directly from prisons is very telling.



They had run out of regular force a long time ago, like back in June. You can see their dependence on PMC group like Wagner. Their PMC is the only unit that is gaining ground. Albeit not alot. Their regular unit were no where to be seen across the line. And this is like that since Late May to June. 

I actually just made a post with another member here sharing this fact.....



Oldman1 said:


> Hence why the reason for long range drones and cameras and other sensors to watch the borders. And have rapid response units nearby, but mostly the border guards will be watching and waiting with anti tank missiles that can hit the vehicles going over the bridge layers. Not to mention the roads or bridges (obviously they will be blocked just like Ukrainian-Belarus border) that connects to the two countries would funnel the Russians as well.



Well, call me old fashion, but I was trained in the old way, maybe you can pull that off with drone and what not, but for me, I can comment on what I know.

So I really cannot comment on that, otherwise it would be a stab in the dark.. 



Oldman1 said:


> Russians also saying they are losing because of African Americans...



They blame it on everyone, NATO, American, even DPR and LNR people, there are some shift on the tone with Russia Media, they are more or less blaming the DPR and LNR people for not holding the line, when it was 1st Guard Tank Army holding the Kharkiv area....


----------



## Viet

The Ukraine pressure on Germany seems working. Instead of Leopard 2 tanks Germany is ready to deliver the army’s most modern artillery to Ukraine.

RCH155 155mm haubitze by KMW

Greater range with more deadly accuracy

The entire Russia invasion army will be within the artillery range.















Krieg in der Ukraine: Die Ukraine bekommt bessere deutsche Artillerie


Die Bundesregierung hat der Ukraine den Kauf von 18 Haubitzen des Typs RCH 155 genehmigt. Sie sind noch moderner als die Panzerhaubitze 2000.




m.faz.net

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## A.P. Richelieu

PakAlp said:


> Russia made enmity with the west because they are slowly surrounding Russia, the same plan is implemented against China. The only thing is these countries are too weak to respond to the threat and Russia tried to respond and has failed.


You are aware that Russias border with NATO is very small compared with the total border of Russia. You are just parroting Russian propaganda that even Putin has abandoned,

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## PakAlp

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You are aware that Russias border with NATO is very small compared with the total border of Russia. You are nust parroting Russian propaganda that even Putin has abandoned,



Russia sees Nato as a threat because they keep expanding towards their border. Its a fact so get over it. Same plan is being implemented against China. So its obvious these countries will retaliate but as seen with Russia its a failure. Russian allies are quiet due to fear of Nato/west.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571049542912733184


A.P. Richelieu said:


> You are aware that Russias border with NATO is very small compared with the total border of Russia.



Russia shares a lot of border with Finland which is a NATO country.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571049723154567168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571105586477146112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571099824451366912


----------



## DF41

https://****/DonbassDevushka/25434

_**** = t dot me_

😆😆😆🥁🥁🥁


🥁🥁🥁 NEVER EVER BELIEVE LIES AND MORE LIES FROM MURICA AND NATO AND WESTERN MSMs🥁🥁🥁

Western media : China is "against" the Ukraine operation
Reality :🥁🥁🥁Tyler:
Wasn’t it so funny that Ukraine asked them to have Russia stop the war* like a few months ago🤣

Tboy Tboy:
China understand if Russia fails America Will come for them with full force .

Bojan:
All normal world is against war, nothing new. They use that just for propaganda like always

Vincent Won:
US wants to take China down. It is stupid not to support Russia. The only issue is China has too much economic connections to US and Europe. I doubt it can stand the economic sanctions like Russia did

Greg:
China remembers that time the UN (led by USA) tried to invade China and fucked around on their border

WROE3512789:
My grandpa too https://feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8906

Greg:
Super interesting, cheers for the link

M:
It's easy to trust the Chinese when you understand that they're first looking out for the Chinese. This is the problem with America and the west in general though, as they generally aren't looking out for their people at all, and instead their actions are entrenched in ideology that should have disappeared after the end of the cold war, or simping for entrenched capital interests.

Samuel Z:
If China suddenly stops supplying the west, the west collapses economically like a downed plane.

bijan:
China is the manufacturing hub of the world and with over 1.5 billion can develop a tremendous domestic market that surpass that of the west. So, it certainly can take over. However. It's culture and social psychology will not alow it to take that risk.

Pulgasso:
Lol. The took one word "concert" and trying to create an elephant out of it. It looks so pathetic. Chinese already made their comments and almost directly addressed it. This is how you know that Wesi is losing, as their are trying to create drama from nothing.

Sam Odsa:
People still don't get it. The West doesn't have any natural resources or humane cheap labor. But they are/were very lucky because until now with their fake currencies, they were able to buy it from the global South. The West worst nightmare is the end of their fiat system, because everything will become suddenly very expensive.

Just Me 🇺🇸🇨🇦:
Like the Chinese man said, Putin don't want biological weapons manufactured in Ukraine, belonging to the USA, on his border. Simple. And our Country is going to shit because of all the money they are laundering to Ukraine trying to recover what Putin destroyed. Oh yeah, that bitch Zelensky could bury the Biden Admin [Obama is controlling White House] alive, I'm sure 1/2 the payments going to Ukraine are blackmail payments. America citizens are paying thier fucking bill. Not exactly sure who's going to take Putins military findings seriously and publicly hang the Bidens, Clinton's, Obama's and Zelenskys for Crimes against Humanity. Us US citizens are lucky that someone doesn't blow us the **** up with the criminals running our Country. One of the 1st things "Biden" did was supply the Taliban with our best military equipment. What a clusterfuck of Afghanistan. BRICS (you forgot S.Africa). US will NEVER take China down. China owns the "Biden" Admin.... just for today. Things are about to change drastically in the United States. The Queen is dead, now it's game on here in the US. I won't believe anyone who disagrees w my logic that Xi, Putin and Trump are in this together. Nothing Can Stop What's Coming. Our Admin belongs in Gitmo, those treasonous bastards.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571064946208935937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571088190530007040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571079203864584194

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## Bengal71

oberschlesier said:


> The Gas storage for Winter in Europe is at ~85% and growing: https://agsi.gie.eu/



Where is the gas coming from? And how long will 100% reserve storage last?


----------



## jhungary

Bengal71 said:


> Where is the gas coming from? And how long will 100% reserve storage last?


Gas comes from everywhere, jsut because Russian cut off the pipe to EU that does not mean they can't get gas, there are other pipeline coming from North Sea and EU can always buy gas from US and Canada.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571126295618285568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571126299066003465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571121394016190464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571118002602639360


----------



## oberschlesier

Bengal71 said:


> Where is the gas coming from? And how long will 100% reserve storage last?


Norway, LNG, Russia via Ukraine(!) and production in the EU.
100% should last on average for 3 months during Winter.

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## Bengal71

oberschlesier said:


> Norway, LNG, Russia via Ukraine(!) and production in the EU.
> 100% should last on average for 3 months during Winter.



What's the long term plan to source oil and gas for Europe? Are the gulfies capable of supplying all of Europe's need?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

footage of Ka-52 shturmoviks armed with MANPADS and anti tank missiles


----------



## oberschlesier

Bengal71 said:


> What's the long term plan to source oil and gas for Europe? Are the gulfies capable of supplying all of Europe's need?


There is enough Gas on the market, e.g. in the US and it`s 8 times(!) cheaper. The Problem is the infrastructure( LNG ports, etc ), which are being built. The Gas problem should disappear in year or so. 

Oil - I don`t know the details, but it`s a smaller problem due to better infrastructure and diversification.

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## Bengal71

oberschlesier said:


> There is enough Gas on the market, e.g. in the US and it`s 8 times(!) cheaper. The Problem is the infrastructure( LNG ports, etc ), which are being built. The Gas problem should disappear in year or so.
> 
> Oil - I don`t know the details, but it`s a smaller problem due to better infrastructure and diversification.



Europe I think should press ahead with removing sanctions from Venezuela and Iran. Lot of oil and gas there. It will be good for both parties.

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## Wood




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## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571110871245672449
@F-22Raptor

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Bengal71 said:


> Europe I think should press ahead with removing sanctions from Venezuela and Iran. Lot of oil and gas there. It will be good for both parties.



Venezuela and Iran are dead set enemies of the US.



Vergennes said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571110871245672449
> @F-22Raptor



Tunguska isn't used by Russians which replaced it with Pantsir. Maybe used by rebels.

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## Bengal71

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Venezuela and Iran are dead set enemies of the US.



True, but Iran will sell oil and gas to Europe if they remove sanctions to their satisfaction and don't kowtow the US lines.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571136451588534272


Wood said:


>



War advances a nation. Human evolution is driven by war. Science and technology is driven by war. Without war, there would be no Renaissance, no Enlightenment, no modern society, humanity would still be in the stone age.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


>



Z is rebels.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571133380661739521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571138024054091776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571139622419439616


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

PakAlp said:


> Russia sees Nato as a threat because they keep expanding towards their border. Its a fact so get over it. Same plan is being implemented against China. So its obvious these countries will retaliate but as seen with Russia its a failure. Russian allies are quiet due to fear of Nato/west.


Countries bordering Russia sees Russias habit if invading neighbouring countries as a threat. Russia is basically forcing them to seek protection in alliances.
None of the countries joining NATO have any plans to contain China,
Russia hardly have any allies.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Countries bordering Russia sees Russias habit if invading neighbouring countries as a threat. Russia is basically forcing them to seek protection in alliances.
> None of the countries joining NATO have any plans to contain China,
> Russia hardly have any allies.



Historically, Russia has been the victim of European invasions. First by Sweden, then by Napoleon, then by Hitler. It is natural Russians are pretty paranoid about invasions by Europeans.

The notion of Russians being invaders has been largely a figment of Hollywood propaganda during the Cold War. Russia has never invaded a single country throughout its history.

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## F-22Raptor

Lot of chatter on social media that Russia is retreating from the Lyman area


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## Viet

Bengal71 said:


> Europe I think should press ahead with removing sanctions from Venezuela and Iran. Lot of oil and gas there. It will be good for both parties.


I believe there are no sanctions on oil and gas sectors. Venezuela and Iran can do it. It’s just they don’t want it. Or they not able to do it.



Bengal71 said:


> Where is the gas coming from? And how long will 100% reserve storage last?


From the US, it’s for immediate needs via Lng terminals. the US produces more gas than Russia thanks to fracking. Same for fracking oil.


----------



## 925boy

Zarvan said:


> War needs to end soon.


Can you mind your biz and let the war participants decide this for themselves? i bet you never told US to end its Afghanistan war even after it went over 10 years.

Also, Putin said Russia is not in a rush in its operations in Ukraine yesterday.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571150184947798018


----------



## RoadAmerica

Bengal71 said:


> What's the long term plan to source oil and gas for Europe? Are the gulfies capable of supplying all of Europe's need?


Nope but the US is


----------



## Bengal71

RoadAmerica said:


> Nope but the US is



Why is it not doing it then?


----------



## Wood




----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571136451588534272
> 
> 
> War advances a nation. Human evolution is driven by war. Science and technology is driven by war. Without war, there would be no Renaissance, no Enlightenment, no modern society, humanity would still be in the stone age.


I see it hasn’t worked in your case

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571165863742504963

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> Can you mind your biz and let the war participants decide this for themselves? i bet you never told US to end its Afghanistan war even after it went over 10 years.


Nah it’s an open forum he can express his point of view freely



Bengal71 said:


> Why is it not doing it then?


Biden administration, under trump the US was the number 1 producer

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## Soldier35

Video of overturning and collision of two BMP-1s of the Ukrainian army. The incident occurred during the counteroffensive of the Ukrainian army in the Kharkiv direction. For an unknown reason, one of the crews of the BMP-1 began to reverse and hit another combat vehicle. After that, both cars began to back up and one of them turned over.






Ukraine received 35 FV103 Spartan armored personnel carriers from England. Combat vehicles have already been seen at the front. The FV103 armored personnel carrier was adopted by the British Army in 1978, and in 2007 it began to be withdrawn from service. The armored vehicle is designed to transport special teams and anti-aircraft groups. Armament - one 7.62 mm machine gun. An anti-tank version of the FV103 armored vehicle was also produced; it was named the FV120 Spartan MCT. The aluminum armor of the vehicle provides protection in frontal projection from armor-piercing bullets of 14.5 mm caliber from a distance of 200 meters, in lateral projection from bullets of 7.62 mm caliber. Crew - 3 people, landing group - 4 people. The speed on the highway is 70 km / h, the cruising range is about 500 km.






Rare footage of a Russian Su-34 fighter-bomber dropping FAB-500 bombs in Ukraine at low altitude. Despite the presence of an armored titanium capsule for the Su-34 crew, it was a bold enough bombing, since the aircraft at such a low altitude could easily be shot down by MANPADS.






Footage of the strike of Russian Ka-52 helicopters on the amphibious assault of Ukraine. The attack by helicopters with Whirlwind missiles was carried out in the area of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant, where the Ukrainian army tried to land an amphibious assault on a barge.

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## Bengal71

RoadAmerica said:


> Nah it’s an open forum he can express his point of view freely
> 
> 
> Biden administration, under trump the US was the number 1 producer



Well number 1 producer doesn't mean they can supply all of Europe's need. If Trump was here, Russia would have taken Ukraine by now, Trump wouldn't spend a dollar helping Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Bengal71 said:


> Well number 1 producer doesn't mean they can supply all of Europe's need. If Trump was here, Russia would have taken Ukraine by now, Trump wouldn't spend a dollar helping Ukraine.



Trump is a businessman. Trump only does something if it is profitable. Cost benefit analysis. Ukraine is a black hole with no end. Ukraine is money losing machine.

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## Maula Jatt

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566826228191055872
> Who is the Nazi?


whats up the popularity of nazis in that whole region? What's going on? werent they butchered by nazis


----------



## RoadAmerica

Bengal71 said:


> Well number 1 producer doesn't mean they can supply all of Europe's need. If Trump was here, Russia would have taken Ukraine by now, Trump wouldn't spend a dollar helping Ukraine.


Oh yeh can you tell me winning lotto tickets from your crystal ball?
Did you just call 45 and ask him personally? 
Fake news



Bengal71 said:


> Well number 1 producer doesn't mean they can supply all of Europe's need. If Trump was here, Russia would have taken Ukraine by now, Trump wouldn't spend a dollar helping Ukraine.


And you asked a question I answered it, way to bring in trump blah blah blah.
Fact the US could easily supply much of Europe’s needs.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571077367015284736


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571077367015284736


Another day more spam 
How’s the Russian economy?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571172013909188612


RoadAmerica said:


> How’s the Russian economy?



Money printing full speed ahead. Russia has hundreds of billions of trees. Lots of wood for paper.


----------



## Bengal71

RoadAmerica said:


> Oh yeh can you tell me winning lotto tickets from your crystal ball?
> Did you just call 45 and ask him personally?
> Fake news
> 
> 
> And you asked a question I answered it, way to bring in trump blah blah blah.
> Fact the US could easily supply much of Europe’s needs.



Great American patriotism there, calm your tits.

If the US was number 1, how much difference they had in production to the number 2? That would determine if they can supply Europe's need.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571172013909188612
> 
> 
> Money printing full speed ahead. Russia has hundreds of billions of trees. Lots of wood for paper.



And what will happen to the inflation?


----------



## Ali_Baba

When you use mercenaries, thieves and murderers and not professional soldiers - they will get you into trouble in more ways than one!


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Bengal71 said:


> And what will happen to the inflation?



They send the money to China when they import stuffs from China.


----------



## Bengal71

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> They send the money to China when they import stuffs from China.



And China will send it back when they buy Russian oil and gas and it will create inflation in Russia.


----------



## 925boy

PakAlp said:


> but as seen with Russia its a failure


How is it a failure when its so early and its not even over yet? US was failing in Afghanistan for over 20 years and none of you were saying US was failing there until it agreed to pull out. I agree with most of your other comments though.

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## RoadAmerica

Bengal71 said:


> Great American patriotism there, calm your tits.
> 
> If the US was number 1, how much difference they had in production to the number 2? That would determine if they can supply Europe's need.
> 
> 
> 
> And what will happen to the inflation?


I am calm, just answering you question. The difference is +2 billion barrels/year in production so yes the USA has plenty to go around and has actually been decreasing production. 
No need for iran or Venezuela


----------



## The SC




----------



## DF41

West says Russia may get Chinese rocket launcher​

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## The SC



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## Viet

Ukraine army makes progress.
9,000 sq km2 retaken since offensive began.

Meanwhile Putin says he is not in hurry.
Interesting. He is busy in meetings.
Maybe he will inaugurate another carousel.





__





Putin droht Ukraine mit verschärften Angriffen - ZDFheute


Trotz der ukrainischen Gegenoffensive im Gebiet Charkiw will Moskau seine Angriffe in der Ostukraine fortsetzen.




amp.zdf.de

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## thetutle

oberschlesier said:


> The inflation in Russia is ~ 15% and they did not cut the Gas delivery to them self, have they ?


im paying 7 AUD for a Big Mac. inflation is everywhere. 


oberschlesier said:


> The Gas storage for Winter in Europe is at ~85% and growing: https://agsi.gie.eu/


How long does 85% storage capacity last when used if there is no more gas coming in?



aviator_fan said:


> And the Serbs deserved it for butchering the Bosnians. You can accuse the US of selective on where it decides to call the morality card. Kashmiris and Palestenians be damned


Just to be clear, Serbia was not bombed because of what they did to Bosnians. US bombed Serbia for what they did to Albanians in Kosovo. The only people that US bombed in response to the Serbian attack on Bosnia was the Bosnian Serbs. And it was only 2 weeks of bombing. The rest we had to do ourselves. 


Viet said:


> He managed to revive Germany’s militarization. Thank you.
> Olaf Scholz says Russia is a threat and announcing Germany armed forces must the best equipped in Europe.
> Now Germany’s next step is acquiring nukes.


So nice to see Germany's army on the march once again. How heartwarming.


----------



## PakFactor

925boy said:


> How is it a failure when its so early and its not even over yet? US was failing in Afghanistan for over 20 years and none of you were saying US was failing there until it agreed to pull out. I agree with most of your other comments though.



The U.S. failed in nation building but they didn't lose any battles and get pushed back, and same applies to Afghanistan.

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## 925boy

PakFactor said:


> The U.S. failed in nation building but they didn't lose any battles and get pushed back, and same applies to Afghanistan.


Did US lose Afghanistan war? its a simple yes or no question.

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## A.P. Richelieu

925boy said:


> How is it a failure when its so early and its not even over yet? US was failing in Afghanistan for over 20 years and none of you were saying US was failing there until it agreed to pull out. I agree with most of your other comments though.


That is because the US was not failing for 20 years.
It overran Afganistan with special forces and air support.
In the end it controlled Afghanistan with a few thousand troops.

Afghanistan ending up controlled by the Taliban is a much bigger failure.
The Afghan Army can be compared to the Italians during WWII.

The Taliban, which has shown that they are incapable of running a country likewise. Their incompetence should make them resign.

Pakistan has gotten a country which wants ”its land back” as a neighbour for its effort. Hardly a stellar result.

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> Did US lose Afghanistan war? its a simple yes or no question.


Thought this was a Ukraine thread, ah yes same old cheerleader changing the top when they can’t debate any longer.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

925boy said:


> Did US lose Afghanistan war? its a simple yes or no question.


The war is not over yet, with the US doing drone strikes at will.
So it is not a simple yes/no question.

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## thetutle

PakAlp said:


> Russia sees Nato as a threat because they keep expanding towards their border. Its a fact so get over it. Same plan is being implemented against China. So its obvious these countries will retaliate but as seen with Russia its a failure. Russian allies are quiet due to fear of Nato/west.


This is very true. Very plain and obvious to see. 


oberschlesier said:


> Norway, LNG, Russia via Ukraine(!) and production in the EU.
> 100% should last on average for 3 months during Winter.


Ok that makes sense. capacity to survive winter. I thin this 3 moths strategic reserve is some EU mandated thing. I know the EU has forced Bosnia to build storage facilities for 3 months of Gas and Petrol. I think its all mandated by EU, and thank God it is. 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Countries bordering Russia sees Russias habit if invading neighbouring countries as a threat. Russia is basically forcing them to seek protection in alliances.
> None of the countries joining NATO have any plans to contain China,
> Russia hardly have any allies.


What he said is trill true. NATO doesnt want to conquer or attack russia, but rather to limit their manouverabity and limit their ability to exploit others. To russia and china, this is a hostile policy. 


Bengal71 said:


> Well number 1 producer doesn't mean they can supply all of Europe's need. If Trump was here, Russia would have taken Ukraine by now, Trump wouldn't spend a dollar helping Ukraine.


Being number 1 producer mensal little, what matters is the excess capacity you have that can be exported. 

Trump would be impeached/assassinated if he didnt support and arm ukraine.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571205753813499905


----------



## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The war is not over yet, with the US doing drone strikes at will.
> So it is not a simple yes/no question.


US totally and completely lost the war, Despite probably winning every battle. US just didnt have the capacity to do what was needed to win, even though on paper it was able to do it. In reality it was not. Just like russia in Ukraine.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Wood

Maula Jatt said:


> whats up the popularity of nazis in that whole region? What's going on? werent they butchered by nazis


Rabid right wing causes are the last refuge for loosers


----------



## The SC




----------



## Mista

925boy said:


> Also, Putin said Russia is not in a rush in its operations in Ukraine yesterday.



lmao









Putin tells Modi he wants Ukraine war to end as soon as possible


Russia’s Putin tells India’s PM he understood New Delhi’s concerns over conflict in Ukraine after Modi urged diplomacy.




www.aljazeera.com












Putin tells India's Modi he wants Ukraine conflict to end 'as soon as possible' | DW | 16.09.2022


During a meeting with India's Narendra Modi on the sidelines of the Uzbekistan security summit, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he wanted to end the Ukraine conflict "as soon as possible," without saying how.




www.dw.com












Russia will do everything it can to end Ukraine war 'as soon as possible', Vladimir Putin says


The Ukrainian flag flies once again over dozens more settlements, including the key city of Izyum where a mass burial site was unearthed, as a top police investigator expressed his shock at the discovery.




news.sky.com


----------



## khansaheeb

PakFactor said:


> He's not upping any intensity because he has nothing left. You do realize the sanctions crippled Russia's defense manufacturing. Corruption and nepotism have left the Russian Armed Forces hollow, and they are fighting with equipment dating back to the '70s and 1980s on a 21st Century battlefield. Their logistics are practically non-existent, and nowhere have they stopped the inflow of weapons from the Western Ukrainian border in the last couple of months.
> 
> I suggest you read the book On War by Carl Van Clausewitz on what total war is and how conflict should be. I fear the Chinese if they clash with Russian thinking, any more delay on taking Taiwan, you will not be able to touch it; consider Ukraine a test bed for what NATO & Co. can do and will do.
> 
> The worst part about Russia & China's last 20 years is that you failed to bleed the West in the conflict hot zones in Africa and the Middle East. Just as the West called certain groups friends and armed them, you could have played the same playbook.
> 
> China thought of a peaceful rise with no war; there was no such thing. You have a competent army if the nation is at war.


We have seen what NATO can do in Afghanistan and that is run. Stop your boasting as it leads to failure, defeat and retreat.

Putin wasn't serious about invading Ukraine, he tried to copy the US model of the Iraq invasion: a quick invasion with a limited force, regime change , install puppet gov and a quick withdrawal. However the Russians miserably failed with 100K troops. They have been mauled and bogged down, failed to take Kiev, underestimated the NATO planning and supply network. The biggest mistake Putin and his generals made was not seal the Poland border, a strategic mistake they are dearly paying for.

Now Russia is stuck as the NATO logistics machine goes in full gear and the Russians have few choices: get bogged down in Ukraine, strategically withdraw and rebuild, entrench and absorb the counter attacks or up the scale and commit more forces and suffer more casualties.

China knows that after Russia it will be the sole target of NATO and it is highly unlikely the Chinese will allow the restructuring of the new New World Order. So NATO can expect Chinese indirect and direct support of the Russians. The only lever the West have is threat of economic and financial damage to China but the Chinese at the moment have showed that the economic impacts are mutually inclusive on both the US and China which has caused the US to back off.

One thing we can be sure of is if Russia is defeated in Ukraine we can expect a domino of attacks on all Russian allies as the same model will be applied.

One note: What is happening in Ukraine is chillingly the same model and by the same countries that was applied against the Germans to trigger WW1 and WW2.

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## zartosht

Hack-Hook said:


> by looking at what left behind i'm 100% sure the retreat neither was calculated nor there is any discipline in Russian soldiers while retreating
> 
> 
> orderly withdrawal mean destroying what ammunition and armor you want leave behind and boobytrap abandoned fortification , not live everything behind intact and in working conditiion and not even try to mine a single road



Well tell me what the losses should look like in such a major reargaurd action? tens of thousands of ukies attacking a couple of thousand Russians? 

This is a war against combined NATO. not some video game. there will be losses, but there is absolutely no evidence of any significant Russian casualties out of the norm that we havent seen all war. 

a collapse should have thousands of men getting taken as POWs, with positions collapsing, and isolated units getting routed. This was an orderly retreat, with reargaurd action, that took some casualties, but probably inflicted 5x+ more on the ukies.

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The war is not over yet, with the US doing drone strikes at will.
> So it is not a simple yes/no question.


What the civilised world calls international terrorism: drone strikes.


----------



## zartosht

The Euro has lost about 10-15% of its value since the start of the war.

inflation on essentials like food and fuel is astronomical 100% range, while "official" inflation is around 10%~

The average euro including the super rich scandanavian dudes who like to brag about their wealth have lost at least 20% of their purchasing power since the start of the conflict. probably more, im being extremely conservative. 

and the worse has yet to come. 

When the euros freeze, people should remeber this smug attitude. and their cheering of sanctions of poor nations, and not feel an ounce of sympathy for them when they starve/freeze. 

eastern europe is what western europe had always looked like economically and culturally before they colonized and mass looted the entire americas, south east asia, australia, and africa. They looted several continents for several hundred years to get their income levels. And karma is coming back for payback. and she is known to be a big bitch.

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## Ali_Baba

As Russia's military reputation nosedives, so do its Asian arms sales​








As Russia's military reputation nosedives, so do its Asian arms sales


Asia was once one of Russia's biggest weapons export markets but the war in Ukraine has accelerated falling sales




www.telegraph.co.uk





( it is happening - Russia's "surgical strike" on its own defence industry ! )..

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Wood said:


>



Indians are snakes and cannot be trusted.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

zartosht said:


> eastern europe is what western europe had always looked like economically and culturally before they colonized and mass looted the entire americas, south east asia, australia, and africa. They looted several continents for several hundred years to get their income levels. And karma is coming back for payback. and she is known to be a big bitch.


Have you even figured out how a poor and backward Western Europe was able to colonise the whole world? Sounds like you haven't. Keep thinking.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

thetutle said:


> Have you even figured out how a poor and backward Western Europe was able to colonise the whole world? Sounds like you haven't. Keep thinking.



That was 20th century dude. US is the undisputed leader in the 21st century.

Just compare how many wars Europe fought versus how many US fought.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571227491452215300


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571208714866016256

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571181226391748608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571165044372606977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571165063066558465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571125250380926978


----------



## ZeGerman

Ali_Baba said:


> As Russia's military reputation nosedives, so do its Asian arms sales​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Russia's military reputation nosedives, so do its Asian arms sales
> 
> 
> Asia was once one of Russia's biggest weapons export markets but the war in Ukraine has accelerated falling sales
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( it is happening - Russia's "surgical strike" on its own defence industry ! )..


Yeah a lot of buyers full of russian equipment and following russian doctrine are scratching their heads now….

That and the sanctions preventing parts gonna be a hit on their defence industry

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571117657948303363

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571117667859460096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571107372000739328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571068833989005312

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> That and the sanctions preventing parts gonna be a hit on their defence industry



Not really. Since the 60s Russians make chips for military. In the 80s they had full fledged smart bombs and tank launched / artillery launched smart munitions and air launched cruise missiles.






Kh-29 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













9M119 Svir/Refleks - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Krasnopol (weapon system) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Kh-55 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Hack-Hook

zartosht said:


> Well tell me what the losses should look like in such a major reargaurd action? tens of thousands of ukies attacking a couple of thousand Russians?
> 
> This is a war against combined NATO. not some video game. there will be losses, but there is absolutely no evidence of any significant Russian casualties out of the norm that we havent seen all war.
> 
> a collapse should have thousands of men getting taken as POWs, with positions collapsing, and isolated units getting routed. This was an orderly retreat, with reargaurd action, that took some casualties, but probably inflicted 5x+ more on the ukies.


destroying those tanks and ammunition would not even take 2 min , at least they must have been destroyed, not left behind for rebels . in syria also the exact same thing happened and SAA handed so many of its equipment to ISIS


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571227076312670213

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571227078296571904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571231559201525769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571237540195143681


----------



## The SC

Russian media:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was seen today with a new patch that reads:
"Ukraine or Death"











@RoaaMediaNews



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570908746448252928


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571222031340904450


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571247718261039110

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Iron Shrappenel

Reashot Xigwin said:


> A gentle reminder that it is morally okay to un-live Russian.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570537796905111552
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570538114992705538
> 
> 
> It should end with Russia leaving Ukraine for good & with Ukraine Joining NATO


Sounds like Bagram

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571254593249501186

Reactions: Haha Haha:

1


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## MeFishToo

zartosht said:


> The Euro has lost about 10-15% of its value since the start of the war.
> 
> inflation on essentials like food and fuel is astronomical 100% range, while "official" inflation is around 10%~
> 
> The average euro including the super rich scandanavian dudes who like to brag about their wealth have lost at least 20% of their purchasing power since the start of the conflict. probably more, im being extremely conservative.
> 
> and the worse has yet to come.
> 
> When the euros freeze, people should remeber this smug attitude. and their cheering of sanctions of poor nations, and not feel an ounce of sympathy for them when they starve/freeze.
> 
> eastern europe is what western europe had always looked like economically and culturally before they colonized and mass looted the entire americas, south east asia, australia, and africa. They looted several continents for several hundred years to get their income levels. And karma is coming back for payback. and she is known to be a big bitch.


You are exactly the kind of person one would expect to find on a forum like this. Cant believe you degraded yourself and expressed your hatred in english, while beating a strawman.

Best regards 
Your “super rich“ Scandinavian

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571272378423836672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571272410099220483


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> US totally and completely lost the war, Despite probably winning every battle. US just didnt have the capacity to do what was needed to win, even though on paper it was able to do it. In reality it was not. Just like russia in Ukraine.


Winning and Losing is a complex concept, especially when Territories are not involved since US does not want to annex Afghanistan into US Territories or Colony, unlike Russia did with Ukraine. Because we don't have a tangible measure to chart successes. eg You gain territories, you lose territories. At best we can say US has achieved all their Tactical Goal (Dismantled AQ network, killed OBL) and failed the Strategic Goal.

But then one can argue this war has not yet over strategically and this war has not yet finished. You could argue it had entered the proxy stage, look at Vietnam War for example, if we determined the strategic goal for Vietnam war is to pull Vietnam away from Communism and Soviet Influence (That's the reason why we support the Southern Regime) Then we can say the US succeed that goal because even US lost the South Vietnam Allies, Vietnam as a country is trying to normalise the relationship with US. Not to member Communism really did not spill into neighboring country. On the other hand, you can argue the war with Taliban is not over because US have the capacity and power to reinvade Afghanistan if Taliban cross the line again (Like do another 9/11) This is more or less the same case with Desert Storm, we didn't topple Saddam Hussein in 91, does that mean we lost in Desert Storm??

Same as the Vietnam case, we cannot bound Afghanistan together, unless it is our intention to annex it. You can say the US did not come out "Winning" the war outright, but whether it had lost, it's debatable, because you will need to actually "Lose" something to lose a war, then the question will become "What did US lost" ?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Winning and Losing is a complex concept, especially when Territories are not involved since US does not want to annex Afghanistan into US like Russia did with Ukraine.



Russia annexed Crimea. Not any other part of Ukraine.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571034179391062016


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571034179391062016



Nuclear is so 20th century. Meet modern artillery of the 21st century.






Russia deploys its latest artillery Geranium (locally manufactured Shahed-136 with TOT)


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-has-begun-using-iranian-kamikaze-drones-on-ukraine @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto...



defence.pk


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## jhungary

There are unconfirm Telegram report (with Video) that heavy fighting WITHIN the city of Kherson, the footage say the firefight took place near Kherson station in September. And stated that the fighting are either between Russian Force and Ukrainian Partisan, or Russian force fighting other Russian force over disagreement. 






(This youtube video quote the unconfirm firefight footage from Telegram and I don't quote Telegram channel here and elsewhere) 

In this case, it would have been much better for the Russian that this is just some renegade Russian unit, because it this is Ukraine Partisan, then they are facing problem within, which mean their problem is no longer just the Ukrainian force outside the city, which is gathering strength. But also inside.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> There are unconfirm Telegram report (with Video) that heavy fighting WITHIN the city of Kherson, the footage say the firefight took place near Kherson station in September. And stated that the fighting are either between Russian Force and Ukrainian Partisan, or Russian force fighting other Russian force over disagreement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (This youtube video quote the unconfirm firefight footage from Telegram and I don't quote Telegram channel here and elsewhere)
> 
> In this case, it would have been much better for the Russian that this is just some renegade Russian unit, because it this is Ukraine Partisan, then they are facing problem within, which mean their problem is no longer just the Ukrainian force outside the city, which is gathering strength. But also inside.



The SBU saboteurs were cornered and wiped out. Waste of lives for nothing.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571281809396142082

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571198231236808711

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571237997080625153

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## Bengal71

thetutle said:


> This is very true. Very plain and obvious to see.
> 
> Ok that makes sense. capacity to survive winter. I thin this 3 moths strategic reserve is some EU mandated thing. I know the EU has forced Bosnia to build storage facilities for 3 months of Gas and Petrol. I think its all mandated by EU, and thank God it is.
> 
> What he said is trill true. NATO doesnt want to conquer or attack russia, but rather to limit their manouverabity and limit their ability to exploit others. To russia and china, this is a hostile policy.
> 
> Being number 1 producer mensal little, what matters is the excess capacity you have that can be exported.
> 
> Trump would be impeached/assassinated if he didnt support and arm ukraine.



There is no ground for impeachment if didn't support Ukraine.


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## Wood

If Putin drops tactical nukes in Ukraine, then what are the options for the US? 🤔

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Doubt it. Ukraine has a quarter of Russia population. On top of that, Russia has much bigger industrial base. Ukraine compared to Russia = Confederate states compared to Union states.


There you go again with the industrial base crap and population size. China was 20x Vietnam population and it meant nothing in 1979. USSR was 20x of Afghanistan in the 80s and it meant nothing. Israel's Arab adversaries outnumbered it 5 to 1. 

This is not the ancient Ming dynasty with people on horses that population maters.

Also, if Russia's industrial base was strong, they wouldn't need Canada's help in repairing Nordstram 1 and going to North Korea (country of last resort) for help on artillery.

You are out of things to say so you repeat the same useless ideas. Now put out there 'this is a forever war' while you are at it.



Viet said:


> Where to take the money? From tax payers from whom else? That means I will pay for Germany militarization, too. By the way Germany current account surplus in 2020 is 230 billion euros.
> Instead of investing in China or give loans or make donations to other countries Germany can put the 230 billion per year money into the military that’s no problem with money at all.
> As for recruits that’s indeed a problem.
> I am all for foreign fighters.


The beginning of the German Foreign Legion ...but for continental defense vs. colonial power projection


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## aviator_fan

thetutle said:


> Have you even figured out how a poor and backward Western Europe was able to colonise the whole world? Sounds like you haven't. Keep thinking.


Colonoization was not an expertise of Europeans only. They were damned good at it. But Moghuls originated in Afghanistan and expanded all to India and subjugated India for 100s of years.

Arabs all the way to Spain.

Ottoman Empire.

Mongols all the way to Iraq.

Only difference is the Europeans held on for a 100 or 200 years longer. Some colonization was brutal (Belgium in Congo). 

All strong powers conquer. That does not make it right, but it occurs.



925boy said:


> Did US lose Afghanistan war? its a simple yes or no question.


They went in and neutralized Taliban's official control of the country. Had they left then, answer would have been 'no did not lose'.

But 1-2 years after being the Neo-Cons wanted to redraw the map of the region (here and Iraq) and mould it as some US democracy and uplift population. That expanded scope was certainly a 'yes lost'.

Russia failed in its original scope. US failed in the expanded redefinition of the goals of the war

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## aviator_fan

RoadAmerica said:


> Another day more spam
> How’s the Russian economy?


Its budget surplus that existed in May June is pretty much gone. Any normal country would be able to then take out a sovereign loan. But who is going to lend to them...that option is not open to them as no investor will provide any loan EVEN if sanctions allowed


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> There you go again with the industrial base crap and population size. China was 20x Vietnam population and it meant nothing in 1979. USSR was 20x of Afghanistan in the 80s and it meant nothing. Israel's Arab adversaries outnumbered it 5 to 1.



Man power is not the only factor. But it is an important factor. Allies wouldn't have beaten Axis if not for overwhelming man power advantage. Northern states wouldn't have beaten Southern states if not for overwhelming man power advantage.


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## dBSPL

Wood said:


> If Putin drops tactical nukes in Ukraine, then what are the options for the US? 🤔


I don't believe the theory that Doomsday will start with tactical warheads. No one can afford the snowball effect. Everything happens and ends in a day. lol.

Kidding aside, Russia has more important means at its disposal than its nuclear weapons. Still. Six months ago, I thought and wrote that it was wrong to overstate Russia. And today, I find it wrong to underestimate Russia today.

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## Viet

Elon Musk Hits Back on Russia​The billionaire CEO of Tesla and SpaceX gave his support to the Ukraine, invaded on February 24 by Moscow.

Elon Musk is a troublemaker in the Russian war machine. By sending Starlink into besieged Ukraine, the tech mogul derailed Moscow's plans to cut the country off from the outside world by destroying its telecommunications infrastructure.

"Rough data on Starlink's usage: around 150K active users per day. This is crucial support for Ukraine's infrastructure and restoring the destroyed territories," Ukrainian Vice Prime Minister and Digital Minister Mykhailo Fedorov said on May 2.

Fedorov explains that Starlink is now a kind of lifeline for many of his compatriots: "Ukraine will stay connected no matter what," he added.

The former head of Russia’s space agency, Dmitry Rogozin, has threatened Musk’s life, the billionaire said in a tweet in May. "You will have to answer in an adult way, Elon, no matter how you turn on the fool,” Rogozin wrote in a message.





__





Elon Musk Hits Back on Russia | TheStreet






www.thestreet.com

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## Viet

Wood said:


> If Putin drops tactical nukes in Ukraine, then what are the options for the US? 🤔


The same question what options we have if North Korea drops nukes South Korea, China drops on Japan, US drops on Russia, Israel drops on Iran, India on Pakistan?

Maybe the US won’t respond. However France and UK would respond, dropping nukes on Moscow and St. Petersburg.

The answer is we don’t know.

But if you read Einstein prediction on WW4 then we come closer. Global warming 10^6. nobody, no human, no animal would survive. Well, accept cockroaches. they would survive.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> If Putin drops tactical nukes in Ukraine, then what are the options for the US? 🤔


Depends on what type of Tactical Nuclear Weapon the Russian uses.

If this is sub-kilotons, most likely NATO will be seriously condemning such attack, likely to intervene directly somehow (like enforcing a no fly zone), unlikely to send troop to Ukraine.

If this is multiple kilo tons of tactical nuclear weapon (below 20kt) Then most likely NATO will directly intervene, possible troop on the ground or peacekeeper, this is most likely ends the conflict for Russia. This is because if Putin uses kiloton Tactical Nuke, anything east of the Dnieper River would have blown toward Poland, and that would trigger Article 5. And depends on Russian response, they may escalate or they may call it a day. Also, if they use 20kt device East of the Dnieper River, more than likely the Radioactive Fall out and radioactive matter will blown back toward Russia.

On the other hand, Russia using Sub Kiloton nuclear weapon is low, because there are a lot of ways to deal more damage in Ukraine than using them, using them is more of a statement rather than actual usage, it won't change the situation on the ground, in fact, even using 20kt weapon won't change the balance, as it can at most take out a single city. You will need 5 or 6 or even 10 to change the situation, if you use ten 20 kiloton nuclear weapon, that's starting a global thermonuclear war.

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## One_Nation

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 880469


The difference between Americans/Brits and other barbarians is that those barbarians do it themselves while Brits/Americans get it done through others.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

One_Nation said:


> The difference between Americans/Brits and other barbarians is that those barbarians do it themselves while Brits/Americans get it done through others.



Judging by the photo of General Patton I'd say he was an evil man bent on sadism. Just at the photo of his face. Looks like a brutal Mongol.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Depends on what type of Tactical Nuclear Weapon the Russian uses.
> 
> If this is sub-kilotons, most likely NATO will be seriously condemning such attack, likely to intervene directly somehow (like enforcing a no fly zone), unlikely to send troop to Ukraine.
> 
> If this is multiple kilo tons of tactical nuclear weapon (below 20kt) Then most likely NATO will directly intervene, possible troop on the ground or peacekeeper, this is most likely ends the conflict for Russia. This is because if Putin uses kiloton Tactical Nuke, anything east of the Dnieper River would have blown toward Poland, and that would trigger Article 5. And depends on Russian response, they may escalate or they may call it a day. Also, if they use 20kt device East of the Dnieper River, more than likely the Radioactive Fall out and radioactive matter will blown back toward Russia.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia using Sub Kiloton nuclear weapon is low, because there are a lot of ways to deal more damage in Ukraine than using them, using them is more of a statement rather than actual usage, it won't change the situation on the ground, in fact, even using 20kt weapon won't change the balance, as it can at most take out a single city. You will need 5 or 6 or even 10 to change the situation, if you use ten 20 kiloton nuclear weapon, that's starting a global thermonuclear war.


I think closing the airspace over Ukraine may also be an option for NATO


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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> US totally and completely lost the war, Despite probably winning every battle. US just didnt have the capacity to do what was needed to win, even though on paper it was able to do it. In reality it was not. Just like russia in Ukraine.


Yes, it was incapable of teaching sheeps to become wolves.
The Afghans embarrassed themselves when the US left.

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## SalarHaqq

Bengal71 said:


> True, but Iran will sell oil and gas to Europe if they remove sanctions to their satisfaction and don't kowtow the US lines.



Unlikely. Professor Marandi, an adviser to the current Iranian nuclear negotiating team, remarked in a recent appearance on Richard Medhurst's program that Iran is not going to compete with Russia on Europe-bound oil exports, because Russia and China have been far more rational than the west in their policies towards Iran including on the nuclear dossier.

As for Venezuela, Biden traveled there a few months ago, met with President Nicolas Maduro, and left totally empty handed.

Europe is likely going to get hit by an energy crisis, and there appears to be concerted coordination between Russia, Iran and Venezuela in this regard.




zartosht said:


> Well tell me what the losses should look like in such a major reargaurd action? tens of thousands of ukies attacking a couple of thousand Russians?



Only a couple thousand Russians were stationed the area, most of whom were members of Rosgvardia - the equivalent of a police force, with no actual military training!



zartosht said:


> a collapse should have thousands of men getting taken as POWs, with positions collapsing, and isolated units getting routed. This was an orderly retreat, with reargaurd action, that took some casualties, but probably inflicted 5x+ more on the ukies.



They didn't leave behind any important quantities of equipment at all. At Bakhmut one of the largest ammunition depots of Ukraine is located. When the Kiev regime re-occupied the town, they found that the ammo storage had been completely emptied - Russian forces had moved the content away, and this must have been done in an disciplined manner because it takes time.

Correct observation about the minimal number of Russian PoW's and fallen shown by the Ukrainian side. If what the Russians did was not a tactical retreat of their own volition, and if they were really overrun as some NATO propaganda sources are trying to make it seem, we would've been offered to see many, many more Russian PoW's in Ukrainian custody and many more images of fallen Russian troops than what the Ukrainians have actually shown.

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> What the civilised world calls international terrorism: drone strikes.



You mean the part of the world that sliths throats of captured civilians.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Man power is not the only factor. But it is an important factor. Allies wouldn't have beaten Axis if not for overwhelming man power advantage. Northern states wouldn't have beaten Southern states if not for overwhelming man power advantage.


I just gave you 4 examples from this previous 20th century. Stop living in the 1800s. It means nothing. China was MANY MANY times bigger than Japan when it occupied a 100 years ago. Thats my 5th example.

If population was a determinant than there would have been zero colonization in the world since the subjugated population was always larger than the colonizing force.

GDP/industrial strength factor in, and willingness to apply that strength and then die for it. This is where Putin misjudged. GDP/industrially/population wise he was at a disadvantage, but he didn't figure that willingness of NATO to apply its strength and willingness of Ukraine to die for it.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Depends on what type of Tactical Nuclear Weapon the Russian uses.
> 
> If this is sub-kilotons, most likely NATO will be seriously condemning such attack, likely to intervene directly somehow (like enforcing a no fly zone), unlikely to send troop to Ukraine.
> 
> If this is multiple kilo tons of tactical nuclear weapon (below 20kt) Then most likely NATO will directly intervene, possible troop on the ground or peacekeeper, this is most likely ends the conflict for Russia. This is because if Putin uses kiloton Tactical Nuke, anything east of the Dnieper River would have blown toward Poland, and that would trigger Article 5. And depends on Russian response, they may escalate or they may call it a day. Also, if they use 20kt device East of the Dnieper River, more than likely the Radioactive Fall out and radioactive matter will blown back toward Russia.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia using Sub Kiloton nuclear weapon is low, because there are a lot of ways to deal more damage in Ukraine than using them, using them is more of a statement rather than actual usage, it won't change the situation on the ground, in fact, even using 20kt weapon won't change the balance, as it can at most take out a single city. You will need 5 or 6 or even 10 to change the situation, if you use ten 20 kiloton nuclear weapon, that's starting a global thermonuclear war.


I think the risk of nuclear war is real. Assuming it’s correct, Russia command chain for nuclear weapons is Putin->Shoigu->Gerassimov.
Putin is a man nobody can trust. He will become irrational if the defeat in Ukraine is unavoidable. Shoigu is a personal friend of Putin he is unlikely to resist. Gerassimov would be the last man standing. He is general staff chief he is the real military man in Russia armed forces he may think twice.


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## aviator_fan

SalarHaqq said:


> Unlikely. Professor Marandi, an adviser to the current Iranian nuclear negotiating team, remarked in a recent appearance on Richard Medhurst's program that Iran is not going to compete with Russia on oil exports to Europe, because Russia and China have been far more rational than the west in their policies towards with Iran including on the nuclear dossier.
> 
> As for Venezuela, Biden traveled there a few months ago, met with President Nicolas Maduro, and left totally empty handed.
> 
> Europe is likely going to get hit by an energy crisis, and there appears to be concerted coordination between Russia, Iran and Venezuela in this regard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only a couple thousand Russians were stationed the area, most whom were members of Rosgvardia - the equivalent of a police force, with no actual military training!
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't leave behind any important quantities of equipment at all. At Bakhmut one of the largest ammunition depots of Ukraine is located. When the Kiev regime occupied the town, they found that the ammo storage had been completely emptied - Russian forces had moved the content away in an orderly and disciplined manner.
> 
> Correct observation about the minimal number of Russian PoW's and fallen shown by the Ukrainian side. If Russians hadn't opted for a retreat from that zone but had been overrun as some NATO propaganda sources are trying to make it seem, we would've seen many, many more Russian PoW's in Ukrainian custody.


Biden never travelled to Venezvuela. Where are you pulling that lie out from? Same place as the rest of your post? If so little was left by Russians why are they down to their prisoners and Wagner to come do the remaining of the fighting.

And oil price is same as before the invasion so why is that an issue now?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Judging by the photo of General Patton I'd say he was an evil man bent on sadism. Just at the photo of his face. Looks like a brutal Mongol.


There are no compassionate generals. They become generals because they succeed in achieving military objectives and unfortunately that involves a lot of killing. Generals become generals for that reason (at least the successful ones). The failed ones get fired (and who knows what later awaits them) by Putin.

If the one chance Chinese general had last year in the border skirmish had done his job, he would be worthy of it. Instead his soldiers got into a martial arts duo with the Indians. So much for fighting spirit. May be China should get Mongol assistance for Taiwan

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## SalarHaqq

For those who still have minimal critical thinking left, and those who've grown tired of the constant, unidimensional, bogus NATO propaganda feed, here's an objective and instructive analysis of the Ukrainian offensive in Kharkov by a military professional, former USA Marine Corps intelligence officer and UN arms inspector Scott Ritter:

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## alimobin memon

SalarHaqq said:


> For those who still have minimal critical thinking left, and those who've grown tired of the constant, unidimensional, bogus NATO propaganda feed, here's an objective and instructive analysis of the Ukrainian offensive in Kharkov by a military professional, former USA Marine Corps intelligence officer and UN arms inspector Scott Ritter:


True. This is what im saying. The way russians abandon tanks and artillery means there are no casualities required to call this offensive effective. Im sure russians are no joke and never will be. 

And in north russians were prepared i think intelligence wasnt that of a failure.

Plus, the fact that russians are loosing the equipment which was supposed to be retired in next year or so. To me these hardware loses are coverable. 

Social media is biased and showing ukrainian portion. You will see in end the looser would only be ukrainians not russians not nato. This is just playground for russians and nato.

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## Viet

SalarHaqq said:


> For those who still have minimal critical thinking left, and those who've grown tired of the constant, unidimensional, bogus NATO propaganda feed, here's an objective and instructive analysis of the Ukrainian offensive in Kharkov by a military professional, former USA Marine Corps intelligence officer and UN arms inspector Scott Ritter:


Such videos are embarrassing, for Putin, for Russia.

It’s the most successful offensive conducted by a smaller army against numerous larger army since WW2. People should have a minimum self respect to credit Ukraine.

Denying its a regroup, it’s a planned withdrawal it’s just an attempt to insult others people intelligence.

Spinning on Ukraine huge casualties in contrast to Russia small casualties during Ukraine military offensive is nothing more than dumb and dumber.

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## MeFishToo

SalarHaqq said:


> For those who still have minimal critical thinking left, and those who've grown tired of the constant, unidimensional, bogus NATO propaganda feed, here's an objective and instructive analysis of the Ukrainian offensive in Kharkov by a military professional, former USA Marine Corps intelligence officer and UN arms inspector Scott Ritter:


An anti-government conspiracy theorist interviewing an RT “expert” is hardly an objective analysis of anything.

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## Viet

MeFishToo said:


> An anti-government conspiracy theorist interviewing an RT “expert” is hardly an objective analysis of anything.


Scott Ritter is a sex convict underage girls.
He is the man Putin relies on for propaganda. In Germany there is a term for such people: „nützliche Idioten“.

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## Reashot Xigwin

SalarHaqq said:


> For those who still have minimal critical thinking left, and those who've grown tired of the constant, unidimensional, bogus NATO propaganda feed, here's an objective and instructive analysis of the Ukrainian offensive in Kharkov by a military professional, former USA Marine Corps intelligence officer and UN arms inspector Scott Ritter:



You do realize Scott Ritter is a pedophile right?

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## alimobin memon

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You do realize Scott Ritter is a pedophile right?


As sex offender he was caught talking to minor, exposed and convicted he will rot in hell for that.

But would this make his analysis on military studies wrong as he was general too ?

He is actually appreciating the valor of ukrainians who are fighting a big military.


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> I don't know, most likely not.
> 
> You need to actaully feel the aircraft when you fly it, there are something you can't just replicate with a simulator, that's why you need flying hours to fly a chopper or any aircraft.
> 
> I mean I am not going to say that for all the pilots out there, but if this was me, I probably can't


How much flying hours? At least 500?



jhungary said:


> Well, that's why I said they probably need them after the war. 2 months from now the Ukrainian would have another set of equipment they want, and you can either give that to them or send the Humvee. I mean, they should transfer the Humvee but not in that 1000 or 2000 range, that would take up a lot of resource just to ship there.


Should give some M1117s as well that I mentioned. In any case whether 2 months from now or post war, at least the Ukrainians have them. 



jhungary said:


> Judging by the movement, it seems like the Ukrainian want to encircle Russian troop at Kherson, I mean if they want to go in and take Kherson, they would not do that. They would just assault their position followed by a rage of artillery fire. But it seems like they are waiting on the Eastern Arm to cut the gap and take Nova Karkova first, I mean either they just want to starve the Russian out or they are trying to treat it like a main event, attack when all 3 pronge are in place, but I don't think it's necessary for them to wait.
> 
> So I don't know....


Probably keep them busy in the long run while other frontlines are being pushed or flanked. Considering the Russians are desperate to make up the losses with criminals directly from prisons, the Russians have at least few weeks training before they those in. Probably even a rotation at most for winter if possible. So the Ukrainians have the opportunity. 



jhungary said:


> They had run out of regular force a long time ago, like back in June. You can see their dependence on PMC group like Wagner. Their PMC is the only unit that is gaining ground. Albeit not alot. Their regular unit were no where to be seen across the line. And this is like that since Late May to June.
> 
> I actually just made a post with another member here sharing this fact.....


Crazy for that to happen, that its only far back in June considering that's like 5 months around since the war started. Wagner tends to be more independent and making quicker decisions and have more experience since they have fought in Syria and Africa. 



jhungary said:


> Well, call me old fashion, but I was trained in the old way, maybe you can pull that off with drone and what not, but for me, I can comment on what I know.
> 
> So I really cannot comment on that, otherwise it would be a stab in the dark..


Besides what I mentioned, I just included a second layer similar to the first. Enemy troops stuck between while Ukrainians can shoot anti tank missiles and artillery. Would disrupt their already disorganized attack.



jhungary said:


> They blame it on everyone, NATO, American, even DPR and LNR people, there are some shift on the tone with Russia Media, they are more or less blaming the DPR and LNR people for not holding the line, when it was 1st Guard Tank Army holding the Kharkiv area....


LOL yep.



alimobin memon said:


> As sex offender he was caught talking to minor, exposed and convicted he will rot in hell for that.
> 
> But would this make his analysis on military studies wrong as he was general too ?


He was never a general, and his analysis has been wrong before.



alimobin memon said:


> True. This is what im saying. The way russians abandon tanks and artillery means there are no casualities required to call this offensive effective. Im sure russians are no joke and never will be.
> 
> And in north russians were prepared i think intelligence wasnt that of a failure.
> 
> Plus, the fact that russians are loosing the equipment which was supposed to be retired in next year or so. To me these hardware loses are coverable.
> 
> Social media is biased and showing ukrainian portion. You will see in end the looser would only be ukrainians not russians not nato. This is just playground for russians and nato.


That is a serious reach. There were many casualties and POWS captured. Many just fled very fast leaving many units exposed to being captured or killed. Also the equipment they are using is pretty much what they have to use. Not because it's retired or was in storage. They lost that many. Doesn't make sense to send in units in very old vehicles to get killed like that. Even resorting to using T62s.

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## alimobin memon

Oldman1 said:


> How much flying hours? At least 500?
> 
> 
> Should give some M1117s as well that I mentioned. In any case whether 2 months from now or post war, at least the Ukrainians have them.
> 
> 
> Probably keep them busy in the long run while other frontlines are being pushed or flanked. Considering the Russians are desperate to make up the losses with criminals directly from prisons, the Russians have at least few weeks training before they those in. Probably even a rotation at most for winter if possible. So the Ukrainians have the opportunity.
> 
> 
> Crazy for that to happen, that its only far back in June considering that's like 5 months around since the war started. Wagner tends to be more independent and making quicker decisions and have more experience since they have fought in Syria and Africa.
> 
> 
> Besides what I mentioned, I just included a second layer similar to the first. Enemy troops stuck between while Ukrainians can shoot anti tank missiles and artillery. Would disrupt their already disorganized attack.
> 
> 
> LOL yep.
> 
> 
> He was never a general, and his analysis has been wrong before.


Chief UNSCOM weapons inspector to Iraq, 1991



Oldman1 said:


> How much flying hours? At least 500?
> 
> 
> Should give some M1117s as well that I mentioned. In any case whether 2 months from now or post war, at least the Ukrainians have them.
> 
> 
> Probably keep them busy in the long run while other frontlines are being pushed or flanked. Considering the Russians are desperate to make up the losses with criminals directly from prisons, the Russians have at least few weeks training before they those in. Probably even a rotation at most for winter if possible. So the Ukrainians have the opportunity.
> 
> 
> Crazy for that to happen, that its only far back in June considering that's like 5 months around since the war started. Wagner tends to be more independent and making quicker decisions and have more experience since they have fought in Syria and Africa.
> 
> 
> Besides what I mentioned, I just included a second layer similar to the first. Enemy troops stuck between while Ukrainians can shoot anti tank missiles and artillery. Would disrupt their already disorganized attack.
> 
> 
> LOL yep.
> 
> 
> He was never a general, and his analysis has been wrong before.
> 
> 
> That is a serious reach. There were many casualties and POWS captured. Many just fled very fast leaving many units exposed to being captured or killed. Also the equipment they are using is pretty much what they have to use. Not because it's retired or was in storage. They lost that many. Doesn't make sense to send in units in very old vehicles to get killed like that. Even resorting to using T62s.


Most of the russian equipment is captured where crew left it. So i dont see many losses. Destroyed some but mostly abandoned.

I am not in ukraine but trying to get hold of what is right and what is wrong. So far I am only seeing that russian news is mostly suppressed and limited and tons of news in favor of Ukrainians maybe they are winning or maybe ukraine is just playground


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571262938710740992


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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> If Putin drops tactical nukes in Ukraine, then what are the options for the US? 🤔


@jhungary 
Total no fly zone. Every Russian target in Ukraine gets bombed in the air by NATO while Ukrainian troops pushed on the ground. Also Putin has to be really stupid and desperate to do this with the world watching including his own people, the people of Ukraine who won't forget what Russia has done (if nukes were used), wouldn't be surprised to see Ukraine getting their own nukes in near future to prevent it happening again. Did anybody see the U.S. nuke Afghanistan when we lost the war? Russia should just get out like they did in Afghanistan during the 1980s without resorting to nukes.



alimobin memon said:


> Chief UNSCOM weapons inspector to Iraq, 1991



That doesn't make him a general. 


alimobin memon said:


> Most of the russian equipment is captured where crew left it. So i dont see many losses. Destroyed some but mostly abandoned


Yeah, around 2 brigades worth of equipment.

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## alimobin memon

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> Total no fly zone. Every Russian target in Ukraine gets bombed in the air by NATO while Ukrainian troops pushed on the ground. Also Putin has to be really stupid and desperate to do this with the world watching including his own people, the people of Ukraine who won't forget what Russia has done (if nukes were used), wouldn't be surprised to see Ukraine getting their own nukes in near future to prevent it happening again. Did anybody see the U.S. nuke Afghanistan when we lost the war? *Russia should just get out like they did in Afghanistan during the 1980s without resorting to nukes.*
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't make him a general.
> 
> Yeah, around 2 brigades worth of equipment.


They are next door neighbors unlike Afghanistan america had no home border issues. Russia getting out and expecting nato to have its bases in ukraine hell no.



Oldman1 said:


> That doesn't make him a general.


Chief unscom is a good designation to have know how of war.


----------



## Oldman1

alimobin memon said:


> They are next door neighbors unlike Afghanistan america had no home border issues. Russia getting out and expecting nato to have its bases in ukraine hell no.


LOL! Back then when the Soviet Union existed, Afghanistan was next door.

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## alimobin memon

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! Back then when the Soviet Union existed, Afghanistan was next door.


But not a direct threat.


----------



## Oldman1

alimobin memon said:


> But not a direct threat.


Sure if you think so. Now that Ukraine has been invaded, it has become even more of a threat to Russia in the long term.

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## Viet

The king of artillery
Ukraine is getting 100 more pieces.

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## alimobin memon

Oldman1 said:


> Sure if you think so. Now that Ukraine has been invaded, it has become even more of a threat to Russia in the long term.


*more of a threat to Russia ?*

Exactly more for RUSSIA to use desperate measures ...

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## Oldman1

alimobin memon said:


> *more of a threat to Russia ?*
> 
> Exactly more for RUSSIA to use desperate measures ...


Yes, Ukraine will have to get its own nukes in response to tactical nukes if used by Russia. Long range cruise missiles and ballistic missiles, kamikaze drones, etc.

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## alimobin memon

Oldman1 said:


> Yes, Ukraine will have to get its own nukes in response to tactical nukes if used by Russia. Long range cruise missiles and ballistic missiles, kamikaze drones, etc.


True that


----------



## Oldman1

alimobin memon said:


> True that


Think of something like Iran like country next door when dealing with a powerful enemy. Ballistic missiles and cruise missiles and loitering munitions. Ukrainians already have some of the tech of their own, but also the ones being provided by the countries from around the world. Even Taiwan with that revolver drone for example that can drop 8 mortar rounds or something bigger like 120mm mortar if modular. And don't forget like HIMARS technology...







Here's Ukraine version.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557341768227733507


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## alimobin memon

Oldman1 said:


> Think of something like Iran like country next door when dealing with a powerful enemy. Ballistic missiles and cruise missiles and loitering munitions. Ukrainians already have some of the tech of their own, but also the ones being provided by the countries from around the world. Even Taiwan with that revolver drone for example that can drop 8 mortar rounds or something bigger like 120mm mortar if modular. And don't forget like HIMARS technology...


Yes. Every country has right to defend themselves and right to chose.


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## Oldman1

alimobin memon said:


> Yes. Every country has right to defend themselves and right to chose.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571139658826002432

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## Reashot Xigwin

alimobin memon said:


> As sex offender he was caught talking to minor, exposed and convicted he will rot in hell for that.
> 
> But would this make his analysis on military studies wrong as he was general too ?
> 
> He is actually appreciating the valor of ukrainians who are fighting a big military.



The guys have been proven wrong in numerous issues especially this one. The guy pretty much regarded as a nonce in the def community. Him being pedophile just an icing on the cake.


alimobin memon said:


> Yes. Every country has right to defend themselves and right to chose.


Not a right to invade.

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## alimobin memon

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The guys have been proven wrong in numerous issues especially this one. The guy pretty much regarded as a nonce in the def community. Him being pedophile just an icing on the cake.
> 
> Not a right to invade.


No rihht if its to expand influence. Yes if it to assure no one is doing something to make their land insecure.

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## sammuel

~​​Occupiers are preparing retreat routes in Kherson Oblast, they have sunk 9 wagons General Staff​








SATURDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2022, 18:30


The Russians are preparing retreat routes in Kherson Oblast; in particular, near the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (HPP), they have sunk nine wagons for the construction of a crossing.

*Source*: General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on Facebook, information as of 18:00 on 17 September

*Quote*: "Due to the successful actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to disable all crossings across the Dnipro on the Kherson front, the occupiers are preparing their retreat routes.

Thus, *they have sunk 9 wagons* near the Kakhovka HPP for the construction of a further crossing."












Occupiers are preparing retreat routes in Kherson Oblast, they have sunk 9 wagons General Staff


KATERYNA TYSHCHENKO - SATURDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2022, 18:30 The Russians are preparing retreat routes in Kherson Oblast; in particular, near the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (HPP), they have sunk nine wagons for the construction of a crossing.




news.yahoo.com


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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> As sex offender he was caught talking to minor, exposed and convicted he will rot in hell for that.
> 
> But would this make his analysis on military studies wrong as he was general too ?
> 
> He is actually appreciating the valor of ukrainians who are fighting a big military.


He was a Marine Intel Officer, a Captain IIRC, he wasn't really impressive on that field. Me and him are virtually doing the same job and of the same rank, just different branch, and I constantly told people not to trust my analysis and use your brain to process the information as you can.









Scott Ritter’s Other War (Published 2012)


The former United Nations weapons inspector and fierce critic of the Iraq invasion is still fighting, but now against only himself.




www.nytimes.com







Wood said:


> I think closing the airspace over Ukraine may also be an option for NATO


That's what no fly zone meant.....

It will be the most obvious option whether or not NATO will put troop on the ground.



Viet said:


> I think the risk of nuclear war is real. Assuming it’s correct, Russia command chain for nuclear weapons is Putin->Shoigu->Gerassimov.
> Putin is a man nobody can trust. He will become irrational if the defeat in Ukraine is unavoidable. Shoigu is a personal friend of Putin he is unlikely to resist. Gerassimov would be the last man standing. He is general staff chief he is the real military man in Russia armed forces he may think twice.


Well, Putin knows if he used nuke, he would LOSE the war outright, whether or not it will become a global nuclear conflict. 

He may not be well verse in Military Tactics and Strategy, but as a KGB man, he knows the limit of what he can and cannot do, and he can tell by the action of the West that whether or not we are serious. 

Unless Russia itself were threatened, there are virtually no chance Russia will use nuke of any kind. It just defeats the purpose of this entire war.

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## mmr

SalarHaqq said:


> Unlikely. Professor Marandi, an adviser to the current Iranian nuclear negotiating team, remarked in a recent appearance on Richard Medhurst's program that Iran is not going to compete with Russia on oil exports to Europe, because Russia and China have been far more rational than the west in their policies towards Iran including on the nuclear dossier.
> 
> As for Venezuela, Biden traveled there a few months ago, met with President Nicolas Maduro, and left totally empty handed.
> 
> Europe is likely going to get hit by an energy crisis, and there appears to be concerted coordination between Russia, Iran and Venezuela in this regard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only a couple thousand Russians were stationed the area, most whom were members of Rosgvardia - the equivalent of a police force, with no actual military training!
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't leave behind any important quantities of equipment at all. At Bakhmut one of the largest ammunition depots of Ukraine is located. When the Kiev regime re-occupied the town, they found that the ammo storage had been completely emptied - Russian forces had moved the content away, and this must have been done in an disciplined manner because it takes time.
> 
> Correct observation about the minimal number of Russian PoW's and fallen shown by the Ukrainian side. If what the Russians did was not a tactical retreat of their own volition, and if they were really overrun as some NATO propaganda sources are trying to make it seem, we would've been offered to see many, many more Russian PoW's in Ukrainian custody and many more images of fallen Russian troops than what the Ukrainians have actually shown.




Energy crisis is will be minimal. Nothing like 70s oil embargo.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> How much flying hours? At least 500?



How much for what?? It took them around 50 hours to wing. 500 hours is 160SOAR level of flight time. 

You can do the hug the ground flight once you are somehow familiar with the craft, so anywhere between 50 to 100 I supposed. 



Oldman1 said:


> Should give some M1117s as well that I mentioned. In any case whether 2 months from now or post war, at least the Ukrainians have them.



I don't think we will, not in the near future. 

I mean it would be probably better off to send them MRAP or even Stryker (which I think is what they really need, more so than Humvee) 

Notice taht M1117 was for light cavalry scout, Ukraine does not actually have people trained in this capacity, all their armoured unit are either tanks or IFV. They can use it on the SOF tho, but i heard they are quite fond of the buggy.





Oldman1 said:


> Probably keep them busy in the long run while other frontlines are being pushed or flanked. Considering the Russians are desperate to make up the losses with criminals directly from prisons, the Russians have at least few weeks training before they those in. Probably even a rotation at most for winter if possible. So the Ukrainians have the opportunity.



What the Ukrainian doing is what we called "Show of Force" they basically show their hands to Russia, knowing they can't escape, and they can't hold, and hoping sense will prevail and they will give up and go home. 

Ukraine should already have enough troops and ways to attack Kherson, using the same "Bite and Hold" technique the Russian uses in the East and grind down Russian defence and take Kherson bit by bit, they didn't do that, most likely because they want to preserve the city. 





Oldman1 said:


> Crazy for that to happen, that its only far back in June considering that's like 5 months around since the war started. Wagner tends to be more independent and making quicker decisions and have more experience since they have fought in Syria and Africa.



Wagner was the one of the few unit that have recent experience in war, the last war before Syria for Russia is in late 90s and early 20s in Dagestan and Chechen, that was way too long ago, and that;s why their regular troop can't really fight. 

It also worth notice that the war in Ukraine has degraded Russian interest in Middle East and Africa, it's exactly because they had rotated a lot of Wagner people from those country and that degraded their local partnership, and in this case, they start recruiting from prison is not a good sign for force regeneration, I think if this war continue, and Russia continue to depend on their PMC, it will bring permanent shift for Russian Interest in Africa and Middle East



Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> Total no fly zone. Every Russian target in Ukraine gets bombed in the air by NATO while Ukrainian troops pushed on the ground. Also Putin has to be really stupid and desperate to do this with the world watching including his own people, the people of Ukraine who won't forget what Russia has done (if nukes were used), wouldn't be surprised to see Ukraine getting their own nukes in near future to prevent it happening again. Did anybody see the U.S. nuke Afghanistan when we lost the war? Russia should just get out like they did in Afghanistan during the 1980s without resorting to nukes.


It kind of depends of the mandate of No Fly Zone. If the No Fly Zone is created to demilitarise an area, then yes, they can engage ground target if they had determined that it was a legit military target inside a demilitarised area. If not, they can't target ground vehicle like the Iraqi No Fly Zone and the one over Serbia in the 90s. 

Ukraine will also not be able to launch their aircraft, and drone, so there will be set back here, but then most intel are provided by NATO to Ukraine anyway, it really wouldn't matter much

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> The king of artillery
> Ukraine is getting 100 more pieces.



But how long will it take for them to be delivered ?


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> He was a Marine Intel Officer, a Captain IIRC, he wasn't really impressive on that field. Me and him are virtually doing the same job and of the same rank, just different branch, and I constantly told people not to trust my analysis and use your brain to process the information as you can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Ritter’s Other War (Published 2012)
> 
> 
> The former United Nations weapons inspector and fierce critic of the Iraq invasion is still fighting, but now against only himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what no fly zone meant.....
> 
> It will be the most obvious option whether or not NATO will put troop on the ground.
> 
> 
> Well, Putin knows if he used nuke, he would LOSE the war outright, whether or not it will become a global nuclear conflict.
> 
> He may not be well verse in Military Tactics and Strategy, but as a KGB man, he knows the limit of what he can and cannot do, and he can tell by the action of the West that whether or not we are serious.
> 
> Unless Russia itself were threatened, there are virtually no chance Russia will use nuke of any kind. It just defeats the purpose of this entire war.


The concern is Russia military doctrine is based on a mix of nationalism and imperialism.
In fact the use of nuclear weapons is explicitly allowed in conventional wars if Russia security is threatened. “Threatened” is to up anybody’s guess.
So in scenario like this it’s up to military leadership, in this case, ex KGB spy Vladimir Putin.


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## 1ndy

Wood said:


> I think closing the airspace over Ukraine may also be an option for NATO


it mean shooting down anything that fly over Ukraine Airspace?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571431538306306048


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571215204033110016

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## Ali_Baba

Russia’s underperforming military capability may be key to its downfall​








Russia’s underperforming military capability may be key to its downfall


Despite superior firepower, Russian forces have failed to fulfil their potential and face a dispiriting battle to regain the upper hand over Ukrainesia-Ukraine war: latest update




www.theguardian.com








> Perhaps one of the greatest weaknesses of the country’s military system, though, is training. First, it simply does not do enough of it. At the beginning of the war, for example, there were fewer than 100 fully trained Russian pilots bordering Ukraine, despite Russia having at least 317 combat aircraft deployedto the theatre.

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## Wood

1ndy said:


> it mean shooting down anything that fly over Ukraine Airspace?


Yes. US may start shipping SAMs to Ukraine. Not sure how long it will take to train Ukrainians though


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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> But how long will it take for them to be delivered ?


In 30 months
A bit too long
If Germany could make 20 submarines per month during WW2, which is more complex weapon system, then it could make this simpler thing quicker.





__





Ukraine: Bundesregierung genehmigt Verkauf von Haubitzen - ZDFheute


Die Bundesregierung hat die Ausfuhr von 18 Haubitzen aus deutscher Produktion an die Ukraine genehmigt.




amp.zdf.de


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571432057657516033


Viet said:


> In 30 months
> A bit too long
> If Germany could make 20 submarines per month during WW2, which is more complex weapon system, then it could make this simpler thing quicker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Bundesregierung genehmigt Verkauf von Haubitzen - ZDFheute
> 
> 
> Die Bundesregierung hat die Ausfuhr von 18 Haubitzen aus deutscher Produktion an die Ukraine genehmigt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.zdf.de



Germany's demographics today is not comparable to Germany's demographics in WW2. In WW2 Germans were young, vibrant, energetic. Today's Germany has a declining demographics with an aging population who are not energetic and vibrant and not fit for combat.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571432057657516033
> 
> 
> Germany's demographics today is not comparable to Germany's demographics in WW2. In WW2 Germans were young, vibrant, energetic. Today's Germany has a declining demographics with an aging population who are not energetic and vibrant and not fit for combat.


a problem however can be solved.
Over a million of Ukrainians have arrived in Germany the number is rising every day. We will probably see several millions if the war continues next year.
Lot of russian deserters, opponents to Putin regime coming from Russia. That goes to hundred thousand.
Germany can recruit them and establish a foreign legion. Légion étrangère allemande. Similar to France army Légion étrangère. There were lots of German soldiers in the legion. Many were fighting in indochina. most never returned after surrender in Vietnam final battle.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> a problem however can be solved.
> Over a million of Ukrainians have arrived in Germany the number is rising every day. We will probably see several millions of the war continues next year.
> Lot of russian deserters, opponents to Putin regime coming from Russia. That goes to hundred thousand.
> Germany can recruit them and establish a foreign legion. Légion étrangère allemande. Similar to France army Légion étrangère. There were lots of German soldiers in the legion. Many were fighting in indochina. Many never returned after surrender in Vietnam final battle.
> 
> View attachment 880564
> View attachment 880565



You can have millions of soldiers but without electricity and fuel they are not combat effective on foot. Russia cruise missile Ukraine's power plants which shuts down water, oil refining. On top of that, Germany is not an oil producer. Even if Germany forms a million men army from Ukrainian refugees and Free Russia Army, Germany cannot beat Russia in Ukraine. All those men just get mowed down by machine guns and artillery fire and it's just a waste of human lives for nothing.

Considering Turkey backed Syrian rebels were never able to take Hama after many attempts, you think a Germany backed army made up of Ukrainian refugees can take Kherson? Sun Tzu would be rolling in his grave.


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## Viet




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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> You can have millions of soldiers but without electricity and fuel they are not combat effective on foot. Russia cruise missile Ukraine's power plants which shuts down water, oil refining. On top of that, Germany is not an oil producer. Even if Germany forms a million men army from Ukrainian refugees and Free Russia Army, Germany cannot beat Russia in Ukraine. All those men just get mowed down by machine guns and artillery fire and it's just a waste of human lives for nothing.
> 
> Considering Turkey backed Syrian rebels were never able to take Hama city after many attempts, you think a Germany backed army made up of Ukrainian refugees can take Kherson? Sun Tzu would be rolling in his grave.


Oil supply is important, without oil no tank can roll. Russia has oil however is too small to pose a threat. USSR is a threat but Russia not. Even though German army beat USSR in WW1, it surrendered giving territory including Ukraine to Germany.
In WW2 German army crushed the Soviet army in a giant encirclement at Kiew.


----------



## 925boy

aviator_fan said:


> But who is going to lend to them...t


1. China.
2. Russia doesnt need loans at the moment, because Russia is cash positive and fiscally responsible..you western countries always say your rich- then why cant you live without so much debt? broke azz!!


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571501582407340032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571501352357961730

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571495260454522882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571489938964635648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571483917848379392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571488507050266624

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571487792529637381

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571499321454903296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571493328989872128

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571507473546182657

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## RoadAmerica

SalarHaqq said:


> For those who still have minimal critical thinking left, and those who've grown tired of the constant, unidimensional, bogus NATO propaganda feed, here's an objective and instructive analysis of the Ukrainian offensive in Kharkov by a military professional, former USA Marine Corps intelligence officer and UN arms inspector Scott Ritter:


Hahaha Scott is paid by Russia so no he is not objective 
This has been pointed out many times



alimobin memon said:


> No rihht if its to expand influence. Yes if it to assure no one is doing something to make their land insecure.


Every country tried to expand their influence, what do you think BRICS is etc?


----------



## srshkmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571507473546182657


Fingernail wound looks new, without dirt on it unlike other parts?

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> 1. China.
> 2. Russia doesnt need loans at the moment, because Russia is cash positive and fiscally responsible..you western countries always say your rich- then why cant you live without so much debt? broke azz!!


The Russian economy is collapsing every day, they don’t have enough money to fund this war…..I mean super duper special operation.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571516077754159104

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## 925boy

RoadAmerica said:


> The Russian economy is collapsing every day, they don’t have enough money to fund this war…..I mean super duper special operation.


If they dont have enough money to keep funding the war, then how exactly do they keep funding the war? LMAO - you're the coward whose already gotten exhausted without actually even fighting a real war...ammunition stocks are lower than required, you just censor those kind of facts, lets just be factual! i will call out every lie i detect, simple.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571479973273243651
How Armenians greeted Nancy Pelosis motorcade. Russia losing another supposed ally

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## jhungary

From all the OSINT source, they all suggested that Russia DID NOT try to reinforce Northern Luhansk, in fact, thinning them out and continue move these troop south. They have transfer at least 20 BTG from Eastern Front to Southern front. 

Looks like the Russian is giving up defending the Svatove-Kreminna-Sieverodonetsk Line. If the Ukrainian break thru that line that's game over for Luhansk, it will be going back to pre-2022 line or maybe worse. 

Looks like the Russian are focus on Southern Front. Which does not make sense as the current war goal for them is to capture the entire Donbas. You can't do that if you lose Luhansk or at least part of it.

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> If they dont have enough money to keep funding the war, then how exactly do they keep funding the war? LMAO - you're the coward whose already gotten exhausted without actually even fighting a real war...ammunition stocks are lower than required, you just censor those kind of facts, lets just be factual! i will call out every lie i detect, simple.


I’ve pointed out many times objective information that can be found.
Case in point Russia has enacted their own airline maintenance, why?
Because they don’t have access to spare parts and no money to perform them. This will no only void any western aircraft warranties but more importantly jeopardize Russian lives as needed maintenance won’t be performed or performed to international standard. This is just one example, the Russian economy is already done and will only get worse.
Don’t be ignorant



925boy said:


> If they dont have enough money to keep funding the war, then how exactly do they keep funding the war? LMAO - you're the coward whose already gotten exhausted without actually even fighting a real war...ammunition stocks are lower than required, you just censor those kind of facts, lets just be factual! i will call out every lie i detect, simple.


And americas stocks are just fine, we have more arms rotting in the desert that Russia has active, again these are facts

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## alimobin memon

RoadAmerica said:


> I’ve pointed out many times objective information that can be found.
> Case in point Russia has enacted their own airline maintenance, why?
> Because they don’t have access to spare parts and no money to perform them. This will no only void any western aircraft warranties but more importantly jeopardize Russian lives as needed maintenance won’t be performed or performed to international standard. This is just one example, the Russian economy is already done and will only get worse.
> Don’t be ignorant


Just like world thought after ww1 germans had no steel to build a single tank to one of finest armoured forces in world. It all was exposed little later. Pretty sure russians are no fools who would invade a country with stocks of just few months. Even Pakistan and India can now fight for 3 months russia is leagues ahead. Do you think country like russia who produces engines dont have backup reserves of supplies to support production ? China and iran alone are backup for supplies or materials to make ammo.

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## F-22Raptor

RoadAmerica said:


> I’ve pointed out many times objective information that can be found.
> Case in point Russia has enacted their own airline maintenance, why?
> Because they don’t have access to spare parts and no money to perform them. This will no only void any western aircraft warranties but more importantly jeopardize Russian lives as needed maintenance won’t be performed or performed to international standard. This is just one example, the Russian economy is already done and will only get worse.
> Don’t be ignorant
> 
> 
> And americas stocks are just fine, we have more arms rotting in the desert that Russia has active, again these are facts




The US is nowhere close to running out of ammo 😂. He keeps throwing that s**t against the wall hoping it sticks.

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## RoadAmerica

alimobin memon said:


> Just like world thought after ww1 germans had no steel to build a single tank to one of finest armoured forces in world. It all was exposed little later. Pretty sure russians are no fools who would invade a country with stocks of just few months. Even Pakistan and India can now fight for 3 months russia is leagues ahead. Do you think country like russia who produces engines dont have backup reserves of supplies to support production ? China and iran alone are backup for supplies or materials to make ammo.


I think they’ve already shown they don’t have sufficient reserves or haven’t you been paying attention for the past 6 months?
Also you seem to ignore much of post soviet industrial base was in…..you guessed it Ukraine 🇺🇦 
Hence why they can’t make large combat ships like aircraft carriers, again this has all been pointed out many times.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> From all the OSINT source, they all suggested that Russia DID NOT try to reinforce Northern Luhansk, in fact, thinning them out and continue move these troop south. They have transfer at least 20 BTG from Eastern Front to Southern front.
> 
> Looks like the Russian is giving up defending the Svatove-Kreminna-Sieverodonetsk Line. If the Ukrainian break thru that line that's game over for Luhansk, it will be going back to pre-2022 line or maybe worse.
> 
> Looks like the Russian are focus on Southern Front. Which does not make sense as the current war goal for them is to capture the entire Donbas. You can't do that if you lose Luhansk or at least part of it.


yes, while the russians focusing on terror attack on Ukraine infra, the front is moving elsewhere. that looks promising, Ukraine army advancing fast closing at Luhanst. the russians risk being encircled. let´s them. will be interesting event.


----------



## alimobin memon

RoadAmerica said:


> I think they’ve already shown they don’t have sufficient reserves or haven’t you been paying attention for the past 6 months?
> Also you seem to ignore much of post soviet industrial base was in…..you guessed it Ukraine 🇺🇦
> Hence why they can’t make large combat ships like aircraft carriers, again this has all been pointed out many times.


Ammunition production for 1000s of artillery and tanks plus vehicles in reserve is still possibility for russia to keep going on. They have so much weaponry in reserve be it old 80s and 90s tech but still pack a punch. 


Ukraine is fighting hard it may win but not so easily and quickly. More lands will be liberated back by ukraine and will be taken back by russians and again ukraine will take back but this cycle will keep going on for a while before one loses.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> From all the OSINT source, they all suggested that Russia DID NOT try to reinforce Northern Luhansk, in fact, thinning them out and continue move these troop south. They have transfer at least 20 BTG from Eastern Front to Southern front.
> 
> Looks like the Russian is giving up defending the Svatove-Kreminna-Sieverodonetsk Line. If the Ukrainian break thru that line that's game over for Luhansk, it will be going back to pre-2022 line or maybe worse.
> 
> Looks like the Russian are focus on Southern Front. Which does not make sense as the current war goal for them is to capture the entire Donbas. You can't do that if you lose Luhansk or at least part of it.


Loosing Kherson city will be a great blow to Russian propaganda. Propaganda is more important than any military or political objective for the dictator


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## 925boy

RoadAmerica said:


> I think they’ve already shown they don’t have sufficient reserves


how did they show this? you just keep referencing bogus sht to make bad points.


RoadAmerica said:


> or haven’t you been paying attention for the past 6 months?


oh i have- Ukraine's been losing everything to Russia -teritory, oil, gas, arable land, what else?


RoadAmerica said:


> Also you seem to ignore much of post soviet industrial base was in…..you guessed it Ukraine 🇺🇦


Thats irrelevant to this discussuion since Ukraine has Per capita income of 3rd world couintry and is ANOTHER banana republic US has to support fully because it cant support itself, but yes men is US gov's preferred type of coiuntry sinceits ego is too sensitive to take independent countries as allies.


RoadAmerica said:


> Hence why they can’t make large combat ships like aircraft carriers, again this has all been pointed out many times.


Ukraine is a fukn relic, and NATO was trying to use it as a pawn with great potential against Russia, but Russia intervened, so no NATO reality for Ukraine anymore.

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## RoadAmerica

alimobin memon said:


> Ammunition production for 1000s of artillery and tanks plus vehicles in reserve is still possibility for russia to keep going on. They have so much weaponry in reserve be it old 80s and 90s tech but still pack a punch.
> 
> 
> Ukraine is fighting hard it may win but not so easily and quickly. More lands will be liberated back by ukraine and will be taken back by russians and again ukraine will take back but this cycle will keep going on for a while before one loses.


Hey we can agree on something!!!
But as more western high tech weapons come into Ukraine the less the numerical advantage the Russians have will make a difference.
You are correct this will be a long back and forth war, but Russia will wind up the looser economically



925boy said:


> how did they show this? you just keep referencing bogus sht to make bad points.
> 
> oh i have- Ukraine's been losing everything to Russia -teritory, oil, gas, arable land, what else?
> 
> Thats irrelevant to this discussuion since Ukraine has Per capita income of 3rd world couintry and is ANOTHER banana republic US has to support fully because it cant support itself, but yes men is US gov's preferred type of coiuntry sinceits ego is too sensitive to take independent countries as allies.
> 
> Ukraine is a fukn relic, and NATO was trying to use it as a pawn with great potential against Russia, but Russia intervened, so no NATO reality for Ukraine anymore.


Here’s my reply 🤣
Educate yourself


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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> Just like world thought after ww1 germans had no steel to build a single tank to one of finest armoured forces in world. It all was exposed little later. Pretty sure russians are no fools who would invade a country with stocks of just few months. Even Pakistan and India can now fight for 3 months russia is leagues ahead. Do you think country like russia who produces engines dont have backup reserves of supplies to support production ? China and iran alone are backup for supplies or materials to make ammo.


Actually, a great deal of "German" tank build after WW1 are built by Sweden, and store there until they were used in WW2. 
Germany was limited to the number of tanks they can have. And it does not have any bearing as to why German Tank is one of the finest in the world, it is related to the doctrine, as in how they use them, instead of the equipment alone. In fact, Tiger Tanks is not at all as advance as people think., it still use bolted on armor plate and straight armor also torsion bar for suspension which contribute to the slow speed and low maneuverability. When Slope Armor, Armor chassis and Individual suspension already available

On the other hand, Russia had already loss 1/3 of all their armor force (including reserve) as per confirmed OSINT, would probably be more in reality, if Russia is being attack right now, I don't think they can mount a combine arms defence anymore as their remaining armored force are in despair state and their unit is far and few in between, don't forget Russia have a huge landmass....


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> From all the OSINT source, they all suggested that Russia DID NOT try to reinforce Northern Luhansk, in fact, thinning them out and continue move these troop south. They have transfer at least 20 BTG from Eastern Front to Southern front.
> 
> Looks like the Russian is giving up defending the Svatove-Kreminna-Sieverodonetsk Line. If the Ukrainian break thru that line that's game over for Luhansk, it will be going back to pre-2022 line or maybe worse.
> 
> Looks like the Russian are focus on Southern Front. Which does not make sense as the current war goal for them is to capture the entire Donbas. You can't do that if you lose Luhansk or at least part of it.



Kharkov is not important to Russia. Kherson is important because of water to Crimea. And they already took the land bridge to Crimea. Luhansk and Donetsk both border Russia. They don't need Kharkov for supply line.

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## alimobin memon

RoadAmerica said:


> Hey we can agree on something!!!
> But as more western high tech weapons come into Ukraine the less the numerical advantage the Russians have will make a difference.
> You are correct this will be a long back and forth war, but Russia will wind up the looser economically
> 
> 
> Here’s my reply 🤣
> Educate yourself


Agreed. But lets not conclude russia loosing so early. Remember as more russia loses more russia gets desperate and more they invest and send more forces to theatre.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571524980143276038


RoadAmerica said:


> I think they’ve already shown they don’t have sufficient reserves or haven’t you been paying attention for the past 6 months?
> Also you seem to ignore much of post soviet industrial base was in…..you guessed it Ukraine 🇺🇦
> Hence why they can’t make large combat ships like aircraft carriers, again this has all been pointed out many times.



What makes you sure Russia can't make aircraft carrier? Russian warships are some of the best in the world.









Gremyashchiy-class corvette - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## thetutle

khansaheeb said:


> So NATO can expect Chinese indirect and direct support of the Russians. The only lever the West have is threat of economic and financial damage to China but the Chinese at the moment have showed that the economic impacts are mutually inclusive on both the US and China which has caused the US to back off.


China's support for Russia, if it exists in practical terms will have major costs. 


jhungary said:


> On the other hand, you can argue the war with Taliban is not over because US have the capacity and power to reinvade Afghanistan if Taliban cross the line again (Like do another 9/11)



If Taliban repeat the 9/11 scenario, I'm not sure the US would be so foolish to invade again. If they do, the lunatics are running the asylum. 


jhungary said:


> Same as the Vietnam case, we cannot bound Afghanistan together, unless it is our intention to annex it. You can say the US did not come out "Winning" the war outright, but whether it had lost, it's debatable, because you will need to actually "Lose" something to lose a war, then the question will become "What did US lost" ?


US did lose control of Afghanistan. It had control through waging war, then it lost it. 


Wood said:


> If Putin drops tactical nukes in Ukraine, then what are the options for the US? 🤔


The options are many and catastrophic for Russia. Firstly, they would have to regime change one way or another. They would get involved openly and it would be a very very dangerous situation. I would not rule anything out. from total blockade to decapitaiton strikes. 


aviator_fan said:


> Colonoization was not an expertise of Europeans only. They were damned good at it. But Moghuls originated in Afghanistan and expanded all to India and subjugated India for 100s of years.
> 
> Arabs all the way to Spain.
> 
> Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Mongols all the way to Iraq.
> 
> Only difference is the Europeans held on for a 100 or 200 years longer. Some colonization was brutal (Belgium in Congo).
> 
> All strong powers conquer. That does not make it right, but it occurs.


TRue, but the other poster was suggesting the west colonised the world when they were weak and undeveloped. This is unlikely. Poor undeveloped nations don't colonise the world. Its the powerful ones that do. The west was powerful, hence it colonised the world. 


Viet said:


> But if you read Einstein prediction on WW4 then we come closer. Global warming 10^6. nobody, no human, no animal would survive. Well, accept cockroaches. they would survive.


I think global nuclear war is very survivable for most in the developed world anyway.


alimobin memon said:


> As sex offender he was caught talking to minor, exposed and convicted he will rot in hell for that.
> 
> But would this make his analysis on military studies wrong as he was general too ?
> 
> He is actually appreciating the valor of ukrainians who are fighting a big military.


Hes very compromised.


jhungary said:


> Looks like the Russian are focus on Southern Front. Which does not make sense as the current war goal for them is to capture the entire Donbas. You can't do that if you lose Luhansk or at least part of it.


I think Russias larger strategic goal is to make Ukraine landlocked. so whilst Donbas is nice to have, I think it's secondary objective. Russia can live without Donbas, but it needs the whole coastline. This will be the toughest fight.

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## alimobin memon

jhungary said:


> Actually, a great deal of "German" tank build after WW1 are built by Sweden, and store there until they were used in WW2.
> Germany was limited to the number of tanks they can have. And it does not have any bearing as to why German Tank is one of the finest in the world, it is related to the doctrine, as in how they use them, instead of the equipment alone. In fact, Tiger Tanks is not at all as advance as people think., it still use bolted on armor plate and straight armor also torsion bar for suspension which contribute to the slow speed and low maneuverability. When Slope Armor, Armor chassis and Individual suspension already available
> 
> On the other hand, Russia had already loss 1/3 of all their armor force (including reserve) as per confirmed OSINT, would probably be more in reality, if Russia is being attack right now, I don't think they can mount a combine arms defence anymore as their remaining armored force are in despair state and their unit is far and few in between, don't forget Russia have a huge landmass....


1/3rd is exaggerated all forces exaggerate figures. I can guarantee you that if russia had lost so much equipment it would have completely abandon this operation. Osint like organization gathers data for publicly available data which can be fabricated. The tweeter counts of kills could be same equipment images taken from different angle and moved to other place to take more images. This is information era no more nuclear era. Fabricated information from both russia and ukraine both is making the real conclusion beyond possible. 

When the war ends the neutral people like me will be shocked when one of them is winner cause most probably 24 hrs before end of war it would look like both are punching through each other and winning.

When americans and ukrainians and other nato supporters say ukraine is winning or using there own social media platforms to promote that ill never take that seriously.

When putin and his supporters say I still wont believe. 

Only neutral perspective are right and apparently the role of neutrals is limited in providing right information because global media is in control of western powers.

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## gambit

patero said:


> I remember our friend Suvorov making much the same point about Russian political leadership, whether it was the Tsars or the Bolsheviks or Stalin, and now Putin continuing a Russian tradition of ego-dominated autocrats.
> 
> Imagine what Russia could have been like today if instead of Putin someone like Navalny had succeeded Yeltsin. With the oil revenues earned while the prices were high Russia could have truly prospered, diversifying their economy, investing more in infrastructure and a larger manufacturing base and high tech industries. Without the need of an ego creating imaginary enemies, a Navalny type leader could have even made Russia an EU member and possibly joined Nato, becoming a responsible member of the European and international community.
> 
> Instead, they have the man who has led them into this mess, and there doesn't seem to be a way out for them


We do have histories of countries that changed leaderships that ended up changes of their natures, but the common denominator seems to be size, as in the smaller the country, the easier it is to change, not guaranteed, but just easier. SKR, JPN, Singapore that have the reputation of being the only successful 'benevolent dictatorship' under Lee Kuan Yew, just a few in Asia. Europe post WW II radically changed. Not all of them at the same time, but changed nevertheless. There are plenty of public analyses from academic to popular authors pointing to the same conclusion that the issue is not the nature of leadership but how easy it is to change, from a 'bad' government to a 'good' one, and vice versa. Geopolitical borders have always been the dominant factor in creating the initial impression of how 'great' is a country, which of course, influence political leaders in supporting that impression. The sheer geography of Russia seems to be the blockage for change.

Gorbachev did not break up the Soviet Union but his policies enabled that dissolution. Yeltsin ended up with 'only' Russia, and Russia proper was no small matter to start, and managed to maintain the status quo, probably because he was too drunk to think of anything larger. Putin came from the Soviet era and he never knew 'only' Russia. It looks like Russia need leaders who know 'only' Russia. A tragic past compels the people not to replicate that past, but there are plenty of Russians who do not believe the Soviet era was tragic and that given the scope of Soviet presence in the world, that past was 'glorious'. What is an ambitious and nascent leader to do with such a bloc? Ignore them? Hardly. I do not think that Navalny or similar reformists can ignore them. Placate them? With what? How about we bring back Ukraine? After all, the Ukrainians are our cultural and genetic cousins, right? Ukraine maybe a military gamble, but not an intellectual one for Putin. Or anyone like him, for that matter.

Russia cannot expand into Asia, China will see to that containment. That leave westward expansion. The EU and NATO must get stronger, economically and militarily. The world know 'only' China, 'only' the US, and so on. But the Russian people have two entries in their collective intellect: Russia and the Soviet Union. To be blunt about it, if the world allows Russia to chose, the Soviet Union *WILL* reincarnate into something new.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Russia can live without Donbas, but it needs the whole coastline. This will be the toughest fight.



4) Russia - 37,653 Km/ 23,396 Miles​




__





Countries by Coastline 2022






worldpopulationreview.com


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Loosing Kherson city will be a great blow to Russian propaganda. Propaganda is more important than any military or political objective for the dictator


That is the problem, becuase when Ukraine liberated Luhansk to either Pre-2022 line or over LNR territories, their front line is going to get smaller and smaller for both the Ukrainian and Russian, yes, it will give Russian more troop density in Kherson if the Donbas felt completely to the Ukrainian (which is looking like they are going to be) But it will also increase the troop density of Ukrainian assault. And Kherson is not a particular good place to hold off the Ukrainian, as it is on the wrong side of the River.

It's like Sieverodonetsk, if you remember what I say early in June, I said the Ukrainian should retreat across the river instead of fighting for it because that position is untenable. This is the same case in Kherson, once the Ukrainian took Nova Karkova back, and it is not the matter of if but when. They are going to encircle Kherson from 3 sides. with 3 broken bridges connected Kherson to Russian territories. They know they can't hold on to Kherson, that's why the Russian delayed their referendum. 

So in reality, they are reinforcing a lost clause and what they are doing is just letting the Ukrainian to squeeze them. 

I wonder what kind of Military training did the Russian top brass had........

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## Vergennes

T90M captured


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571532763341230083

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

T-90M being built at the Ural tank factory for the war effort

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 4) Russia - 37,653 Km/ 23,396 Miles​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Countries by Coastline 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> worldpopulationreview.com


what I mean is Russia needs the coastline in order to deprive Ukraine and NATO from having access to it.


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## alimobin memon

Vergennes said:


> T90M captured
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571532763341230083


Massive blow


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

alimobin memon said:


> Massive blow



Not really. To date more than 100 T-90M have been built and the Ural tank factory can build at least 100 new T-90M a year. Besides, Ukrainians are not trained on how to use T-90M nor do they have the AT-11 Sniper anti tank missiles which are vital to T-90M's armament package. They also cannot service T-90M without the engine. T-90M only lasts a few weeks before engine pops without servicing.


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## alimobin memon

As of 15 September 2022, the open-source intelligence site, Oryx has visually confirmed the loss of 23 Russian T-90s (21 T-90A 11 destroyed, 2 abandoned, 8 captured and 2 T-90M 1 destroyed, 1 abandoned).[56][57]


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## SIPRA

alimobin memon said:


> 1/3rd is exaggerated all forces exaggerate figures. I can guarantee you that if russia had lost so much equipment it would have completely abandon this operation. Osint like organization gathers data for publicly available data which can be fabricated. The tweeter counts of kills could be same equipment images taken from different angle and moved to other place to take more images. This is information era no more nuclear era. Fabricated information from both russia and ukraine both is making the real conclusion beyond possible.
> 
> When the war ends the neutral people like me will be shocked when one of them is winner cause most probably 24 hrs before end of war it would look like both are punching through each other and winning.
> 
> When americans and ukrainians and other nato supporters say ukraine is winning or using there own social media platforms to promote that ill never take that seriously.
> 
> When putin and his supporters say I still wont believe.
> 
> Only neutral perspective are right and apparently the role of neutrals is limited in providing right information because global media is in control of western powers.



According to some of the enthusiastic anti-Russia posters, Ukraine has already defeated Russia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

alimobin memon said:


> As of 15 September 2022, the open-source intelligence site, Oryx has visually confirmed the loss of 23 Russian T-90s (21 T-90A 11 destroyed, 2 abandoned, 8 captured and 2 T-90M 1 destroyed, 1 abandoned).[56][57]



Without servicing, none of those tanks work for a few weeks. Ukrainian tank factory at Kharkov was missiled. Ukraine cannot service any tank.



SIPRA said:


> According to some of the enthusiastic anti-Russia posters, Ukraine has already defeated Russia.



And already taken Moscow.

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Not really. To date more than 100 T-90M have been built and the Ural tank factory can build at least 100 new T-90M a year. Besides, Ukrainians are not trained on how to use T-90M nor do they have the AT-11 Sniper anti tank missiles which are vital to T-90M's armament package. They also cannot service T-90M without the engine. T-90M only lasts a few weeks before engine pops without servicing.


You are either some sort of AI or a living person who is clearly on another wavelength, if you think the worst part of this scenario is that Ukraine get to use the newest russian tank in battle.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> You are either some sort of AI or a living person who is clearly on another wavelength, if you think the worst part of this scenario is that Ukraine get to use the newest russian tank in battle.



Evidence? I've not seen Ukrainians using captured tanks in battle. They cannot service the engine due to destruction of Kharkov tank factory.


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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Evidence? I've not seen Ukrainians using captured tanks in battle. They cannot service the engine due to destruction of Kharkov tank factory.


Yep, you're clearly on another level. I am 100% sure this tank will not be going into battle.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> You are either some sort of AI or a living person who is clearly on another wavelength, if you think the worst part of this scenario is that Ukraine get to use the newest russian tank in battle.



And even if Ukrainians manage to use captured T-90 in battle for a short time, they don't have the AT-11 Sniper long range laser guided anti tank missiles which is what makes T-90 stand out.









9M119 Svir/Refleks - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## alimobin memon

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Evidence? I've not seen Ukrainians using captured tanks in battle. They cannot service the engine due to destruction of Kharkov tank factory.


Because either they are same tanks or there magazine or barrel are damaged using thermite or some explosive. In no way tanks are left abandoned for enemy to use.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571537352442396672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571537354464141312


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## SIPRA

alimobin memon said:


> As of 15 September 2022, the open-source intelligence site, Oryx has visually confirmed the loss of 23 Russian T-90s (21 T-90A 11 destroyed, 2 abandoned, 8 captured and 2 T-90M 1 destroyed, 1 abandoned).[56][57]



I fail to understand that when, according to a number of posters, on this thread, Ukraine has already defeated Russia; then why this thread is continuing. It should better be closed.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571538577347018754


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## Vergennes

Seems like there's much more equipments to find abandonned by the Russians


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571521434379239430

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Attacking Ukrainian power plant.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571514857563856899

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## maverick1977

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/0...eached-the-battlefield-ukraines-military-says


Iranian drones are creating Havoc on Ukrainian artillery ...

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> China's support for Russia, if it exists in practical terms will have major costs.
> 
> 
> If Taliban repeat the 9/11 scenario, I'm not sure the US would be so foolish to invade again. If they do, the lunatics are running the asylum.
> 
> US did lose control of Afghanistan. It had control through waging war, then it lost it.



US WILL MOST DEFINITELY invade Afghanistan again if ther is another 9/11 scenario.

I don't know how much you know about US Politics, but the decision for US to withdraw troop is base on the fact that one man want to salvage his own presidency. You can literally see the movement shift from sending Afghanistan advance Military article in 2017 (Black Hawk, M1117, MD-500 and so on) to signing that agreement without even consulting the Afghani in 2020. 

If Trump and his team have made proper assessment and think the security situation is good enough to send all those equipment in, unless it really deteriorates that much in just 3 years of his presidency, there aren't really pointed to withdraw the force there.

There are already calls from the left wing to send US troop back into Afghanistan because of the deteriorate human right concern, and only the center left and the right wing are opposing that idea. And if Taliban tried another 9-11, I am sure as hell the right wing and center left would come on board. Nothing galvanize a country better than a terrorist attack.... 


thetutle said:


> I think Russias larger strategic goal is to make Ukraine landlocked. so whilst Donbas is nice to have, I think it's secondary objective. Russia can live without Donbas, but it needs the whole coastline. This will be the toughest fight.


First of all, there are no way Russia can landlock Ukraine even before this counter offensive, this offensive makes it even clear but also make it available for Russia to lose coastal city like Mariupol or Berdinsk. 

I don't get why people think Donbas is not important...Donbas is the area which tying almost all the Ukrainian offensive power in place, if Russia loses Donbas, the Ukrainian will have a unified line of defense over their own border, which will release 10 -15 brigade worth of fighting force free to do whatever they want, that's 6 divisions of men. over 80,000 fighting men all blooded in the East, that's a helluva combat power. 

On the other hand, Russia hold in Southern Ukraine is more difficult because of the Crimea Choke point, which only selective land connection between Ukrainian south and Crimea, and all open area are toward the Ukrainian held territories, yes, it allows a better defensive position in Crimea, so it will be harder, a lot harder for Ukraine to try to take Crimea, but it also hamper supply effort toward the Southern Front as choke point works both ways. There is no way Russia can supply Kherson or Melitopol over Crimea now Ukraine is armed with long range rockets. Kherson is actually for all intend and purpose already lost. There is no way to resupply Russian troop in Kherson with all the bridge are blown. 

Effective, what Russia doing now is setting up a condition where Ukraine will be able to defeat Russia in detail. If they did not stem the loss in Luhansk, then Luhansk will fall, then Donetsk will follow, and that will release a bunch of troops from Eastern front and make them available for Southern Offensive, when they already have problem supplying Kherson or Melitopol now, what do you think when Ukraine pours another 80,000 men in the area??


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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> And even if Ukrainians manage to use captured T-90 in battle for a short time, they don't have the AT-11 Sniper long range laser guided anti tank missiles which is what makes T-90 stand out.


Down worry my AI friend. They wont be using it.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Down worry my AI friend. They wont be using it.



If they use it, Russians recapture it again.



maverick1977 said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/0...eached-the-battlefield-ukraines-military-says
> 
> 
> Iranian drones are creating Havoc on Ukrainian artillery ...



Shahed-136 is a gamer changer as much as HIMARS was a game changer in July.

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## alimobin memon

SIPRA said:


> I fail to understand that when, according to a number of posters, on this thread, Ukraine has already defeated Russia; then why this thread is continuing. It should better be closed.


This is a good dreaming thread for ukrainians.

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## zartosht

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> Total no fly zone. Every Russian target in Ukraine gets bombed in the air by NATO while Ukrainian troops pushed on the ground.



LOL.. More clownish america stronkkkkk CNN rhetoric. 

no fly zone... as if its fuckin libya. 

Lets play the scenario down. USAF Planes warn Russian planes to leave the area. Russians tell you to pound sand, and put their nuclear forces on high alert.

do you think any american general/politician is going to have the balls to fire on an enemy that literally has the firepower to erase you from the planet, and turn your entire territory into uninahbitable glass?

Get this ridiculous delusion out of your low iq american skulls...... London, paris, washing dc, and NY would eat several nuclear warheads before a single inch of Russian territory is ceded to NATO, or any "no fly zone" is imposed on the Russian border...

" a no fly zone" is a declaration of war. The only reason why NATO has gotten away with it before, is because they have used it on weak and defenseless countries.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> There are already calls from the left wing to send US troop back into Afghanistan because of the deteriorate human right concern, and only the center left and the right wing are opposing that idea. And if Taliban tried another 9-11, I am sure as hell the right wing and center left would come on board. Nothing galvanize a country better than a terrorist attack....


What would another invasion of Afghanistan achieve? another trillion and another 20 years of exhausting itself and the treasury. America isn't that stupid. or maybe it is. lets hope we don't find out. History book would say, hey look at americas 40 year occupation of agfanistan and the cost of trillions? in the end it will withdraw again. and what then after a 3rd 9/11? go for 60 year occupation. what you think US tax payer wants to occupy and feed afghans for like 500 years?


jhungary said:


> First of all, there are no way Russia can landlock Ukraine even before this counter offensive, this offensive makes it even clear but also make it available for Russia to lose coastal city like Mariupol or Berdinsk.
> 
> I don't get why people think Donbas is not important...Donbas is the area which tying almost all the Ukrainian offensive power in place, if Russia loses Donbas, the Ukrainian will have a unified line of defense over their own border, which will release 10 -15 brigade worth of fighting force free to do whatever they want, that's 6 divisions of men. over 80,000 fighting men all blooded in the East, that's a helluva combat power.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia hold in Southern Ukraine is more difficult because of the Crimea Choke point, which only selective land connection between Ukrainian south and Crimea, and all open area are toward the Ukrainian held territories, yes, it allows a better defensive position in Crimea, so it will be harder, a lot harder for Ukraine to try to take Crimea, but it also hamper supply effort toward the Southern Front as choke point works both ways. There is no way Russia can supply Kherson or Melitopol over Crimea now Ukraine is armed with long range rockets. Kherson is actually for all intend and purpose already lost. There is no way to resupply Russian troop in Kherson with all the bridge are blown.
> 
> Effective, what Russia doing now is setting up a condition where Ukraine will be able to defeat Russia in detail. If they did not stem the loss in Luhansk, then Luhansk will fall, then Donetsk will follow, and that will release a bunch of troops from Eastern front and make them available for Southern Offensive, when they already have problem supplying Kherson or Melitopol now, what do you think when Ukraine pours another 80,000 men in the area??


Russia wants to deny NATO the use of that coastline and it wants access to the Danube. This I think is a critical war aim. No so much Donbas. That just my opinion. Let the supercomputer at Langley decide what Russias ultimate goals are. I know on thing, they certainly dont care about the Russian people in Donbas.

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## mmr

925boy said:


> how did they show this? you just keep referencing bogus sht to make bad points.
> 
> oh i have- Ukraine's been losing everything to Russia -teritory, oil, gas, arable land, what else?
> 
> Thats irrelevant to this discussuion since Ukraine has Per capita income of 3rd world couintry and is ANOTHER banana republic US has to support fully because it cant support itself, but yes men is US gov's preferred type of coiuntry sinceits ego is too sensitive to take independent countries as allies.
> 
> Ukraine is a fukn relic, and NATO was trying to use it as a pawn with great potential against Russia, but Russia intervened, so no NATO reality for Ukraine anymore.



Russia not losing anything lol?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

mmr said:


> Russia not losing anything lol?



Nope. Nada.



Vergennes said:


> Seems like there's much more equipments to find abandonned by the Russians
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571521434379239430



It's not much use without the long range laser guided Krasnopol rounds.

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## mmr

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Nope. Nada.


Lol yup

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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> 1/3rd is exaggerated all forces exaggerate figures. I can guarantee you that if russia had lost so much equipment it would have completely abandon this operation. Osint like organization gathers data for publicly available data which can be fabricated. The tweeter counts of kills could be same equipment images taken from different angle and moved to other place to take more images. This is information era no more nuclear era. Fabricated information from both russia and ukraine both is making the real conclusion beyond possible.
> 
> When the war ends the neutral people like me will be shocked when one of them is winner cause most probably 24 hrs before end of war it would look like both are punching through each other and winning.
> 
> When americans and ukrainians and other nato supporters say ukraine is winning or using there own social media platforms to promote that ill never take that seriously.
> 
> When putin and his supporters say I still wont believe.
> 
> Only neutral perspective are right and apparently the role of neutrals is limited in providing right information because global media is in control of western powers.


I worked in Military Intelligence, you never make decision based on just a single source, you look at what the Russian do and what is the condition of the troops and you made decision with that intel in mine. 

If you look at the small things. you can piece together what is the condition of Russian armed force now. 

Them buying and using Iranian drones means they cannot provide their own intel and survillence system, either those are depleted or not suitable to use anymore.

Them buying Artillery shell from North Korea means they are running out of apporiate ammunition or had exceed the usage they are limited to.

Them using 1970s era armor vehicle means they are going into their strategic reserve. On the other hand, Ukrainian report on bad condition of capture equipment points to those are inactive reserve. 

Not sure how much you understand the Military reserve system. Equipements are separated into different category. You have your deployable, which is ready to deploy with active troop and used with combat, when those are exhausted, you started to dip in the ready to use reserve, there are 2 types of Ready to Use reserve, one is being regular serviced, essentially is the back up for the deployable equipment, another is storage reserved, while still being kept in good condition, it will be housed somewhere where minimal work need to be perform before they can be use due to them being in storage, from small things like you have to change the gearbox oil, engine oil, to large thing like retool the barrel or have the electronic system service. Then there is the final category, long term reserve, those are what we called "Just In Case" equipment, it's too old to keep them regularly but to wasteful to recycle it. A lot of work have to be done to these equipment before you can use it. Because it has been stored outside in depot (In the US, we store inactive reserve article in Sierra Army Depot in California) 







Judging from the equipment standard, the stuff the Ukrainian capture are from inactive reserve stock, which mean unless they fancy just bringing these vehicles out for a ride and getting them captured, that mean they had exerted their deployable stock and the ready to use stock (which would have been the 1990s-2000s era T-72) Which mean they had expanded enough article to dip into the inactive reserve stock. 

There is a joke for us grunt. If you see them use Sierra Army Depot stuff, you may as well acquisition from private collector, it's the same stuff but better look after....

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If they use it, Russians recapture it again.


As I've said for a 5th time, this tank will no be used for combat. 


zartosht said:


> do you think any american general/politician is going to have the balls to fire on an enemy that literally has the firepower to erase you from the planet, and turn your entire territory into uninahbitable glass?


Yes I do. They will fire on such an enemy. 


zartosht said:


> Get this ridiculous delusion out of your low iq american skulls...... London, paris, washing dc, and NY would eat several nuclear warheads before a single inch of Russian territory is ceded to NATO, or any "no fly zone" is imposed on the Russian border...


This is very unlikely. In such a confrontation, Russia's ability to do this would be seriously degraded by methods that are classified and that we can only imagine. 


zartosht said:


> " a no fly zone" is a declaration of war. The only reason why NATO has gotten away with it before, is because they have used it on weak and defenseless countries.


NATO is in a war with Russia. This at least is clear to me. NATO weapons are killing troops, NATO advisors and soldiers are on the ground and NATO is supplying active intelligence that leads to Russian casualties every day. If this is not a war, I dont know what is.


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> What would another invasion of Afghanistan achieve? another trillion and another 20 years of exhausting itself and the treasury. America isn't that stupid. or maybe it is. lets hope we don't find out. History book would say, hey look at americas 40 year occupation of agfanistan and the cost of trillions? in the end it will withdraw again. and what then after a 3rd 9/11? go for 60 year occupation. what you think US tax payer wants to occupy and feed afghans for like 500 years?



You don't understand the American. 

We will do stuff because you piss us off, and there are no pissing off than try to attack us. Or what, do you think we wll just take it and let it go?? No way.

On the other hand, 2 trillions over 20 years is not really a big amount of money to spend in war, as they say in any government position, if you don't spend it, you will not have them the next year, 2 trillion over 20 years is like 100 billion a year, that's 1/6 or 1/7 of our defence budget, but well, most of these "Budget" is overblown anyway, or else you probably one of the people who believe a contractor install a toilet seat in Bagram cost the taxpayer $2500 per seat.....



thetutle said:


> Russia wants to deny NATO the use of that coastline and it wants access to the Danube. This I think is a critical war aim. No so much Donbas. That just my opinion. Let the supercomputer at Langley decide what Russias ultimate goals are. I know on thing, they certainly dont care about the Russian people in Donbas.



I am not denying that is what Russia want, I am saying that is something they CANNOT achieve. And what they are doing now is essentially handing Ukrainian a condition to defeat them in detail. That's what the Russia is going at the moment.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> You don't understand the American.
> 
> We will do stuff because you piss us off, and there are no pissing off than try to attack us. Or what, do you think we wll just take it and let it go?? No way.


I realise this, it will definitely be in Chains and Russias interest that US spends all its resources on another failed invasion of some far flung place. So expect then to actively try to make this happen. 

Im not going to beg US to not tear itself apart. if thats what they want fine, but I'm just trying to be practical. 

I believe if another such attack happens they might want to consider bombing the people that did it and greater government surveillance. Repeating the thing again and again, in this case Afghanistan invasion, and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571458973982945281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571438845790687235


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## alimobin memon

jhungary said:


> I worked in Military Intelligence, you never make decision based on just a single source, you look at what the Russian do and what is the condition of the troops and you made decision with that intel in mine.
> 
> If you look at the small things. you can piece together what is the condition of Russian armed force now.
> 
> Them buying and using Iranian drones means they cannot provide their own intel and survillence system, either those are depleted or not suitable to use anymore.
> 
> Them buying Artillery shell from North Korea means they are running out of apporiate ammunition or had exceed the usage they are limited to.
> 
> Them using 1970s era armor vehicle means they are going into their strategic reserve. On the other hand, Ukrainian report on bad condition of capture equipment points to those are inactive reserve.
> 
> Not sure how much you understand the Military reserve system. Equipements are separated into different category. You have your deployable, which is ready to deploy with active troop and used with combat, when those are exhausted, you started to dip in the ready to use reserve, there are 2 types of Ready to Use reserve, one is being regular serviced, essentially is the back up for the deployable equipment, another is storage reserved, while still being kept in good condition, it will be housed somewhere where minimal work need to be perform before they can be use due to them being in storage, from small things like you have to change the gearbox oil, engine oil, to large thing like retool the barrel or have the electronic system service. Then there is the final category, long term reserve, those are what we called "Just In Case" equipment, it's too old to keep them regularly but to wasteful to recycle it. A lot of work have to be done to these equipment before you can use it. Because it has been stored outside in depot (In the US, we store inactive reserve article in Sierra Army Depot in California)
> 
> View attachment 880650
> 
> 
> Judging from the equipment standard, the stuff the Ukrainian capture are from inactive reserve stock, which mean unless they fancy just bringing these vehicles out for a ride and getting them captured, that mean they had exerted their deployable stock and the ready to use stock (which would have been the 1990s-2000s era T-72) Which mean they had expanded enough article to dip into the inactive reserve stock.
> 
> There is a joke for us grunt. If you see them use Sierra Army Depot stuff, you may as well acquisition from private collector, it's the same stuff but better look after....


Russian buying iranian drones does not mean they lack in every aspect. Remember that americans use rh 120 gun on m1a2 cause there old gun wasnt effective as they wanted so the german gun was tot'd by us of a. Same is the case that the russians lacked drone fleet or numbers for war so compensated by buying from ally. Americans bough some systems from allies that they realized are good in afghanistan and iraq war. But you cannot conclude that since they are buying those means they are compensating loses.

Heres my 2 pence, they are buying ammo from north korea and iran is because as I have stated earlier that the russians are using mostly reserves from ussr era and there ammo is still produced by iran and north korea. Since the armata tank introduction the afv, apc and other combat systems of armata family there focus is shifting. It's not like north korean rounds are being used used yet in ukraine. Rather they are just insurance incase of issues with production and storage since ammos do expire this is just insurance of what if...

Russia always had these reserves which were to be used in war scenario. Not all reserves ae obsolete tanks there are t90s and t80s too in reserves

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I realise this, it will definitely be in Chains and Russias interest that US spends all its resources on another failed invasion of some far flung place. So expect then to actively try to make this happen.
> 
> Im not going to beg US to not tear itself apart. if thats what they want fine, but I'm just trying to be practical.
> 
> I believe if another such attack happens they might want to consider bombing the people that did it and greater government surveillance. Repeating the thing again and again, in this case Afghanistan invasion, and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.


Again, we did not spend that much of anything in Afghanistan....

The only thing we use is soldier, times, money, all of which will be used up regardless whether or not there is a war going on. 

Say what you will on the American. we always punch below our weight, not that we only target smaller enemy, but that we will not go all out for a war, and when we do go out for a war. we will drag a bunch of people along, that way the cost is distributed across differnt nation. Which in my mind is the only things the Russia did wrong in this war, they failed to secure partners who are willing to go into this adventure, and they have to go in alone. well, pretty much alone. 

You don't need to worry US is tearing itself apart because of another Afghan war. War for us is good for business. And right now, we have another war to support, and people who are willing to die for our clause and a country dumb enough to attack them. That's play really well for us, all the benefit, no lost. 

You can believe whatever you want, that does not mean it is true, and as much as I know the US government, if Taliban decided to support another 9/11 a lot of American would want heads, and we will be going in again, its never money or resource stopping us from going to war, it's ALWAYS PUBLIC SUPPORT. As long as public support are there, we will go in.



alimobin memon said:


> Russian buying iranian drones does not mean they lack in every aspect. Remember that americans use rh 120 gun on m1a2. The russians lacked drone fleet or numbers for war so compensated by buying from ally. Americans bough some systems from allies that they realized are good in afghanistan and iraq war. But you cannot conclude that since they are buying those means they are compensating loses.
> 
> Russia always had these reserves which were to be used in war scenario. Not all reserves ae obsolete tanks there are t90s and t80s too in reserves


The different is we are not buying Rheinmetall tank guns in the middle of the war. 

You buy something means you do not have the mean to manufacture something, that translate to you do not have the means to sustain an operation with that something because you cannot freely make it. Set aside the Rheinmetall Tank Gun is actually license production in the US. 

You would much rather stick to your existing stock if you have a choice, buying a new platform in the middle of the war means you no longer have that mean to support your operation with your own equipment, in this case, Drone. If this is a non-sustainable item (Like the 120mm main gun from Rheinmetall, you would want to buy surplus before you start a war. Not during a war. Because you can keep up the momentum and have the item in use continuously.

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## alimobin memon

jhungary said:


> Again, we did not spend that much of anything in Afghanistan....
> 
> The only thing we use is soldier, times, money, all of which will be used up regardless whether or not there is a war going on.
> 
> Say what you will on the American. we always punch below our weight, not that we only target smaller enemy, but that we will not go all out for a war, and when we do go out for a war. we will drag a bunch of people along, that way the cost is distributed across differnt nation. Which in my mind is the only things the Russia did wrong in this war, they failed to secure partners who are willing to go into this adventure, and they have to go in alone. well, pretty much alone.
> 
> You don't need to worry US is tearing itself apart because of another Afghan war. War for us is good for business. And right now, we have another war to support, and people who are willing to die for our clause and a country dumb enough to attack them. That's play really well for us, all the benefit, no lost.
> 
> You can believe whatever you want, that does not mean it is true, and as much as I know the US government, if Taliban decided to support another 9/11 a lot of American would want heads, and we will be going in again, its never money or resource stopping us from going to war, it's ALWAYS PUBLIC SUPPORT. As long as public support are there, we will go in.
> 
> 
> The different is we are not buying Rheinmetall tank guns in the middle of the war.
> 
> You buy something means you do not have the mean to manufacture something, that translate to you do not have the means to sustain an operation with that something because you cannot freely make it. Set aside the Rheinmetall Tank Gun is actually license production in the US.
> 
> You would much rather stick to your existing stock if you have a choice, buying a new platform in the middle of the war means you no longer have that mean to support your operation with your own equipment, in this case, Drone. If this is a non-sustainable item (Like the 120mm main gun from Rheinmetall, you would want to buy surplus before you start a war. Not during a war. Because you can keep up the momentum and have the item in use continuously.


Problem here is that thinking is not always identical between different armies. In case of war russia can do what I said keep producing and buying additional ammo from allied countries. Even if they run out of ammo then they still got it from friendly countries means the reserves are strong. In the end whether its home grown ammo or bought its causing damage to the enemy.



jhungary said:


> Again, we did not spend that much of anything in Afghanistan....
> 
> The only thing we use is soldier, times, money, all of which will be used up regardless whether or not there is a war going on.
> 
> Say what you will on the American. we always punch below our weight, not that we only target smaller enemy, but that we will not go all out for a war, and when we do go out for a war. we will drag a bunch of people along, that way the cost is distributed across differnt nation. Which in my mind is the only things the Russia did wrong in this war, they failed to secure partners who are willing to go into this adventure, and they have to go in alone. well, pretty much alone.
> 
> You don't need to worry US is tearing itself apart because of another Afghan war. War for us is good for business. And right now, we have another war to support, and people who are willing to die for our clause and a country dumb enough to attack them. That's play really well for us, all the benefit, no lost.
> 
> You can believe whatever you want, that does not mean it is true, and as much as I know the US government, if Taliban decided to support another 9/11 a lot of American would want heads, and we will be going in again, its never money or resource stopping us from going to war, it's ALWAYS PUBLIC SUPPORT. As long as public support are there, we will go in.
> 
> 
> The different is we are not buying Rheinmetall tank guns in the middle of the war.
> 
> You buy something means you do not have the mean to manufacture something, that translate to you do not have the means to sustain an operation with that something because you cannot freely make it. Set aside the Rheinmetall Tank Gun is actually license production in the US.
> 
> You would much rather stick to your existing stock if you have a choice, buying a new platform in the middle of the war means you no longer have that mean to support your operation with your own equipment, in this case, Drone. If this is a non-sustainable item (Like the 120mm main gun from Rheinmetall, you would want to buy surplus before you start a war. Not during a war. Because you can keep up the momentum and have the item in use continuously.


Media is tricky maybe the order was prior war but matured during the conflict. North korea providing ammo in bulk so fast means nk were ready for this before war.

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## RoadAmerica

alimobin memon said:


> Agreed. But lets not conclude russia loosing so early. Remember as more russia loses more russia gets desperate and more they invest and send more forces to theatre.


Very true 👍🏿



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571524980143276038
> 
> 
> What makes you sure Russia can't make aircraft carrier? Russian warships are some of the best in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gremyashchiy-class corvette - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


They don’t have the large dry docks needed, this was confirmed by Russia back in ‘18 when their PD-50 dry dock was damaged and they can no longer repair their aircraft carrier.
I believe this was part of the reason they wanted to buy Frances LHC

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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> Problem here is that thinking is not always identical between different armies. In case of war russia can do what I said keep producing and buying additional ammo from allied countries. Even if they run out of ammo then they still got it from friendly countries means the reserves are strong. In the end whether its home grown ammo or bought its causing damage to the enemy.
> 
> 
> Media is tricky maybe the order was prior war but matured during the conflict. North korea providing ammo in bulk so fast means nk were ready for this before war.


Well, you are doing what we in the intelligence field called "Scenario Fulfillment" 

You are looking at one way and only that way you can interpret the situation. But then I raised 5 issues here (Including the OSINT), how much of a chance all are based on your scenario? 

Step back, look at each issue independently and objectively and find common ground of the 5 pieces of intel. You will have your answer, instead of going for what you want to go and use the intelligence to try to justify your scenario. Many wars are fought and lost because people in power interpret data and information only to a tune that they wanted. But ignore the more simple and straight forward explanation because that does not fulfill their requirement. Until it is too late.


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> You don't need to worry US is tearing itself apart because of another Afghan war. War for us is good for business. And right now, we have another war to support, and people who are willing to die for our clause and a country dumb enough to attack them. That's play really well for us, all the benefit, no lost.


So why not stay in Afghanistan? why leave?

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> So why not stay in Afghanistan? why leave?


Did I just explained that?

It's because of one man and his quest to fulfill a campaign promise to get re-elected....

Ad subsequent administration inabilty to act to counter that deal.

Had Trump never in power, we would still be in Afghanistan.


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## alimobin memon

jhungary said:


> Well, you are doing what we in the intelligence field called "Scenario Fulfillment"
> 
> You are looking at one way and only that way you can interpret the situation. But then I raised 5 issues here (Including the OSINT), how much of a chance all are based on your scenario?
> 
> Step back, look at each issue independently and objectively and find common ground of the 5 pieces of intel. You will have your answer, instead of going for what you want to go and use the intelligence to try to justify your scenario. Many wars are fought and lost because people in power interpret data and information only to a tune that they wanted. But ignore the more simple and straight forward explanation because that does not fulfill their requirement. Until it is too late.


Oh I havent concluded anything I am more of what if this and what if that. Gives me many angles. Ukraine after offensive has morale boost but russians are not yet loosing.

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## zartosht

thetutle said:


> As I've said for a 5th time, this tank will no be used for combat.
> 
> Yes I do. They will fire on such an enemy.
> 
> This is very unlikely. In such a confrontation, Russia's ability to do this would be seriously degraded by methods that are classified and that we can only imagine.
> 
> NATO is in a war with Russia. This at least is clear to me. NATO weapons are killing troops, NATO advisors and soldiers are on the ground and NATO is supplying active intelligence that leads to Russian casualties every day. If this is not a war, I dont know what is.



In your mind, hollywood movies and your pants , the muricans would open fire

Past history, logic, and the fact that the people with their hands on such buttons are extremely. Well off elites who value their material possessions and lives, tells you they will not be pressing any buttons. 

I assure you of this, but your more then welcome to fap to whatever fantasy you like


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## The SC




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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> Oh I havent concluded anything I am more of what if this and what if that. Gives me many angles. Ukraine after offensive has morale boost but russians are not yet loosing.


That's still "scenario fulfillment" tho.

Most intelligence piece points to 1 direction openly, that's why it was gather in the first place, otherwise it would have no value at all. So if you are looking at that piece of intelligence and think "What if this means something else....", well, one piece probably not that much of a different, but again, as I said, there are 5 pieces of intelligence that points to Russian resource being depleted, and if you started to think "What if..." in all those 5 intelligence pieces. Then you are basically ignoring the basic fact because each intelligence piece has their weight on their validity, and if you come up with 5 pieces, the weight is pretty damn sure. Because you would need to have 5 pieces of intelligence all going the different direction they were collected for. What are the chances of that happening?

On the other hand, in term of military deposition, the chances of Russia turning this around is low. The problem they had is the same problem they had back in February, there are not enough people in operation. That is quite evident that they got routed that fast losing that much land in short amount of time. The thing is, at the earliest of the war, which Russia is at its strongest (That's universally true for any invading army) they are only manage to capture city like Kupiansk and Kherson because those city was betrayed by the Russian collaborator and the Russian took them without a fight. And after a very exhausted fight to get city like Izyum and Sieverodonetsk

Now 6 months down the road, they are no as strong as they were 6 months ago, and there are no more collaborator which mean if they want to reconquer those area, they will now have to fight for it, against a reinforced and motivated defender. The odds are not good for the Russian.

Don't get me wrong, miracle do and did happen in war, I mean a tiny destroyer task force can held of Yamato and its Battleground off Philippine in WW2 (Battle off Samar) The same miracle can happen to the Russian, but as we all say, if you have to depends on miracle to happen, you are more likely already lost the war.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Did I just explained that?
> 
> It's because of one man and his quest to fulfill a campaign promise to get re-elected....
> 
> Ad subsequent administration inabilty to act to counter that deal.
> 
> Had Trump never in power, we would still be in Afghanistan.


No they left Afghanistan because they could not defeat their enemy, the Taliban, despite spending 20 years and trillion dollars. They know that if they stayed another 20 they would be no closer to defeating them. So total military defeat with no prospect of winning. Most people realise this. But dont worry, Afghanistan has defeated many empires before. It comes quite naturally to them.

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## 925boy

jhungary said:


> It's because of one man and his quest to fulfill a campaign promise to get re-elected....


thats a lie - US was already overspent, drained, and unable to meet its unrealistic, imperialist+ "democratic transformation" goals by the time that man promised to pull out of Afghanistan- why ignore the truth that majority of AMericans wanted US military out of Afghanistan because it was a lost cause? that's what that man /leader smartly preyed on - most leaders were so smart they were too stupid to do what the American public wanted - dont blame him, blame the US military that cant win wars, and makes them expensive for US taxpayers, who then have revoked US military's ability to start senseless wars Americans cant afford and they wont win.


jhungary said:


> Had Trump never in power, we would still be in Afghanistan.


irrelevant

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iskander shoot cruise missiles


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571546691043561475


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## The SC

Ukraine blackout..

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## ZeGerman

thetutle said:


> No they left Afghanistan because they could not defeat their enemy, the Taliban, despite spending 20 years and trillion dollars. They know that if they stayed another 20 they would be no closer to defeating them. So total military defeat with no prospect of winning. Most people realise this. But dont worry, Afghanistan has defeated many empires before. It comes quite naturally to them.


Well. With only a dozen losses per latter years…and many billions straight into the hands of private contractors and their military industry….i can understand some parts of the USA military were perfectly fine staying there forever and leaching trillions off a budget while regular americans have to go without proper healthcare and see their infrastructure fall apart and a “working poor” class come about. 

USA defense spending is way out of whack….and their influence on politics too large.


----------



## Viet

mmr said:


> Russia not losing anything lol?


Putin’s new fairy tale is he wants to take Donbas, so just Donez und Luhansk. That’s what he said in Ubeskistan. If judging this goal then indeed he is not losing anything.
We can expect he will let his troops at Cherson to die, because they don’t fit in his grand scheme.
That may explain why the Russians since days and weeks focusing on taking Bachmut…

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571557388892635142

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571569133988216834


Viet said:


> Putin’s new fairy tale is he wants to take Donbas, so just Donez und Luhansk. That’s what he said in Ubeskistan. If judging this goal then indeed he is not losing anything.
> We can expect he will let his troops at Cherson to die, because they don’t fit in his grand scheme.
> That may explain why the Russians since days and weeks focusing on taking Bachmut…



Kherson is vital to Crimea water supply. Ukrainians built at dam at Kherson to block water to Crimea. Crimean troops were particularly motivated to take Kherson in March. Kherson is just about the most heavily defended city in the world right about now.


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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> thats a lie - US was already overspent, drained, and unable to meet its unrealistic, imperialist+ "democratic transformation" goals by the time that man promised to pull out of Afghanistan- why ignore the truth that majority of AMericans wanted US military out of Afghanistan because it was a lost cause? that's what that man /leader smartly preyed on - most leaders were so smart they were too stupid to do what the American public wanted - dont blame him, blame the US military that cant win wars, and makes them expensive for US taxpayers, who then have revoked US military's ability to start senseless wars Americans cant afford and they wont win.
> 
> irrelevant


Can’t win wars boy you’re dense. 
Had they committed the troops and not nation built Afghanistan would be our new home away from home much like Russia is attempting to do in Ukraine, however we don’t do that.
Ask Saddam who won in Iraq, I’ll wait while you try to contact his spirit

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Putin’s new fairy tale is he wants to take Donbas, so just Donez und Luhansk. That’s what he said in Ubeskistan. If judging this goal then indeed he is not losing anything.
> We can expect he will let his troops at Cherson to die, because they don’t fit in his grand scheme.
> That may explain why the Russians since days and weeks focusing on taking Bachmut…



Momentum is with Ukraine right now - and If Ukraine can make inroads into Luhansk - then even this limited goal will not be achievable for Putin. Ukraine simply has to ensure if has enough of an open door in Donbas and Luhansk so that Russia cannot stop its operations and then use the time that provides to take back Crimea, Donbas and Luhansk.

Putin is looking for a way out right now..

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## PakFactor

RoadAmerica said:


> Can’t win wars boy you’re dense.
> Had they committed the troops and not nation built Afghanistan would be our new home away from home much like Russia is attempting to do in Ukraine, however we don’t do that.
> Ask Saddam who won in Iraq, I’ll wait while you try to contact his spirit



He's going to dust off that Ouija lol


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> Momentum is with Ukraine right now - and If Ukraine can make inroads into Luhansk - then even this limited goal will not be achievable for Putin. Ukraine simply has to ensure if has enough of an open door in Donbas and Luhansk so that Russia cannot stop its operations and then use the time that provides to take back Crimea, Donbas and Luhansk.
> 
> Putin is looking for a way out right now..



Luhansk is near Russian border. Supply line from Russia is short. Supply line from Kiev is long. The bulk of Ukrainian army would get destroyed in Luhansk if they try to invade Luhansk.

And with 35 million people left, Ukraine needs all the men they have in order to have a chance at stabilizing population decline since USSR broke up in 1991.


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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571557388892635142
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571569133988216834
> 
> 
> Kherson is vital to Crimea water supply. Ukrainians built at dam at Kherson to block water to Crimea. Crimean troops were particularly motivated to take Kherson in March. Kherson is just about the most heavily defended city in the world right about now.


Cherson will fall. Time runs against the 20,000 Russians trapped at the west river bank. Ukraine army has destroyed all bridges, railroads. Not possible to retreat. Foods, waters, ammo cannot come in.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Cherson will fall. Time runs against the 20,000 Russians trapped at the west river bank. Ukraine army has destroyed all bridges, railroads. Not possible to retreat. Foods, waters, ammo cannot come in.



Ukraine doesn't have enough soldiers to take Kherson. With 35 million people it's not enough to fight 148 million Russians + 5 million rebels. If Ukraine has 100 to 200 million people they can have a chance of taking Kherson.


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## thetutle

ZeGerman said:


> Well. With only a dozen losses per latter years…and many billions straight into the hands of private contractors and their military industry….i can understand some parts of the USA military were perfectly fine staying there forever and leaching trillions off a budget while regular americans have to go without proper healthcare and see their infrastructure fall apart


Yep, I can understand it too. Leeching trillions of the taxpayer. 


RoadAmerica said:


> Can’t win wars boy you’re dense.
> Had they committed the troops and not nation built Afghanistan would be our new home away from home much like Russia is attempting to do in Ukraine, however we don’t do that.
> Ask Saddam who won in Iraq, I’ll wait while you try to contact his spirit


Had they committed the troops. But they didnt. Why? well because they couldn't. It like saying, well russia could raise and army of 15 million and take Ukraine. yeah ok. let them try. 

Can America send 2 million troops to occupy Afghanistan? not with contractors charging $1,500 per hammer. yeah. its just like Russias war, it looks possible on paper, but reality is somewhat different. 

Think of the cost of doing what you are suggesting. The truth is, US lost in Afghanistan just like the British lost and USSR lost. US should consider itself lucky to have gotten out. 

What US did in Germany and Japan simply cant be done in afganistan. For one, Germany and Japan consider western way of life to be superior and always strived for it. Afghanis think very little of the west and have no desire to have gay pride events anytime soon. 

So you have no chance in Afghanistan. Also, Pakistan will make sure west never succeeds there. 

As for Iraq, well the only people that won there are the Iranians. the Shiites got freed and Iraq is great friend with Iran. Saddam lost of course, but Saddam is not Iraq, he's just an illegitimate dictator. 

If you think US won in Iraq and got itself a friend, you are seriously deluded.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571576468467056643


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> The truth is, US lost in Afghanistan just like the British lost and USSR lost. US should consider itself lucky to have gotten out.



Tech trumps flesh. Send in the terminators.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571580056194916352


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## RoadAmerica

thetutle said:


> Yep, I can understand it too. Leeching trillions of the taxpayer.
> 
> Had they committed the troops. But they didnt. Why? well because they couldn't. It like saying, well russia could raise and army of 15 million and take Ukraine. yeah ok. let them try.
> 
> Can America send 2 million troops to occupy Afghanistan? not with contractors charging $1,500 per hammer. yeah. its just like Russias war, it looks possible on paper, but reality is somewhat different.
> 
> Think of the cost of doing what you are suggesting. The truth is, US lost in Afghanistan just like the British lost and USSR lost. US should consider itself lucky to have gotten out.
> 
> What US did in Germany and Japan simply cant be done in afganistan. For one, Germany and Japan consider western way of life to be superior and always strived for it. Afghanis think very little of the west and have no desire to have gay pride events anytime soon.
> 
> So you have no chance in Afghanistan. Also, Pakistan will make sure west never succeeds there.
> 
> As for Iraq, well the only people that won there are the Iranians. the Shiites got freed and Iraq is great friend with Iran. Saddam lost of course, but Saddam is not Iraq, he's just an illegitimate dictator.
> 
> If you think US won in Iraq and got itself a friend, you are seriously deluded.


Yes the US won in Iraq period 
Second you forget the US was fighting 2 wars, again had they committed the troops and they could have if it wasn’t for a second war the outcome would have been different (actually i personality believe they could have sustained both had the government not been concerned about public perception) 
I was simply contradicting the US can’t win wars because that’s just a stupid statement 
Now back to Ukraine, simple fact russia can barley sustain a 6 month war on their doorstep while the US fought 2 simultaneously 
Who can’t win wars?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Yes the US won in Iraq period
> Second you forget the US was fighting 2 wars, again had they committed the troops and they could have if it wasn’t for a second war the outcome would have been different (actually i personality believe they could have sustained both had the government not been concerned about public perception)
> I was simply contradicting the US can’t win wars because that’s just a stupid statement
> Now back to Ukraine, simple fact russia can barley sustain a 6 month war on their doorstep while the US fought 2 simultaneously
> Who can’t win wars?



War needs domestic public support. The US absolutely crushed Germany, Italy, Japan despite suffering millions of casualties in just 3 years. But the US weren't able to subdue Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia despite much weaker enemies. Because of lack of domestic public support.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571584927489040390

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571584929808498689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571594631074168840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571594633062277123


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571593154721378305

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> War needs domestic public support. The US absolutely crushed Germany, Italy, Japan despite suffering millions of casualties in just 3 years. But the US weren't able to subdue Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia despite much weaker enemies. Because of lack of domestic public support.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571584927489040390
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571584929808498689
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571584929808498689
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571584929808498689


Once again there’s no debate the US utterly slammed iraq
They lost in Vietnam because of politics and limiting strike tarkets
Afghanistan well we’ve already discussed that

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Once again there’s no debate the US utterly slammed iraq
> They lost in Vietnam because of politics and limiting strike tarkets
> Afghanistan well we’ve already discussed that



Like I said. War needs domestic public support. If the US had domestic public support like they did in WW1, WW2, they would have crushed Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam the way they crushed Germany, Italy, Japan.

In Afghanistan war Russians didn't have domestic public support. In Ukraine Russians have domestic public support.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571548165681168388


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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Like I said. War needs domestic public support. If the US had domestic public support like they did in WW1, WW2, they would have crushed Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam the way they crushed Germany, Italy, Japan.
> 
> In Afghanistan war Russians didn't have domestic public support. In Ukraine Russians have domestic public support.


As Putin is showing Russian domestic support doesn’t matter when you have a dictator so that argument holds no water

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571548165681168388



Two can play this game. The US cannot afford China ban GM and Ford and Apple and Boeing from the Chinese market. So the US will do nothing when China sells weapons to Russia.



RoadAmerica said:


> As Putin is showing Russian domestic support doesn’t matter when you have a dictator so that argument holds no water



Dictators also need public support. Gaddafi, Saddam, Assad were popular. Libya, Iraq, Syria population increased 4 fold since 1960s due to infrastructure development and socialism.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571533052245049344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571533060159553536


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571601600078315521


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571213434250842112


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## A.P. Richelieu

jhungary said:


> Actually, a great deal of "German" tank build after WW1 are built by Sweden, and store there until they were used in WW2.


I think you are mistaken here.
Sweden bought 10 x https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stridsvagn_fm/21 in parts from Germany and shipped one of them back to Germany in 1938.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571613108258340864


----------



## patero

gambit said:


> Russia cannot expand into Asia, China will see to that containment. That leave westward expansion. The EU and NATO must get stronger, economically and militarily. The world know 'only' China, 'only' the US, and so on. But the Russian people have two entries in their collective intellect: Russia and the Soviet Union. To be blunt about it, if the world allows Russia to chose, the Soviet Union *WILL* reincarnate into something new.


Yeah, if left unchecked they wouldn't have stopped at invading Ukraine. It's obvious they would have kept on using the 'denazifying' line to invade and occupy other former Soviet bloc nations, and then keep going into Western Europe using the same flimsy rationale.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571625351993856003


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571615959214952449


patero said:


> Yeah, if left unchecked they wouldn't have stopped at invading Ukraine. It's obvious they would have kept on using the 'denazifying' line to invade and occupy other former Soviet bloc nations, and then keep going into Western Europe using the same flimsy rationale.



The US started the war by arming Ukrainians to butcher Russians. Russians have no choice but to defend themselves.

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## khansaheeb

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Attacking Ukrainian power plant.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571514857563856899


At 0:24 a voice in the video says Alhamdulillah, must be a Chechen special forces soldier.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> At 0:24 a voice in the video says Alhamdulillah, must be a Chechen special forces soldier.



Good ear.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> No they left Afghanistan because they could not defeat their enemy, the Taliban, despite spending 20 years and trillion dollars. They know that if they stayed another 20 they would be no closer to defeating them. So total military defeat with no prospect of winning. Most people realise this. But dont worry, Afghanistan has defeated many empires before. It comes quite naturally to them.


It's different between "Winning in Afghanistan" and "Defeating Taliban"

You can NEVER defeat Taliban, that's an organisation, and they move between country to country, from Afghanistan to Pakistan and to Yemen, to do that you will need to invade multiple country, but then they will still move on to country that harbor the ideology. It's like telling PLA to try to defeat Google. Can they be done militarily? Even if PLA successfully invaded US and control the entire US, Google will still be operating in UK, EU or Australia. That's the same idea. 

On the other hand, to "Win" in Afghanistan is to prevent Taliban return, and that would do as long as US troop maintain a contingency there. If US maintain Resolute Freedom in Afghanistan, the Taliban will not be able to return. And there are actually not a lot of support to withdraw US troop home, that was done because one man and one man only, that's Trump. 

Again, 20 years is not a long period of time, look at South Korea, we have been stationed there since Korean War in 1950, that's 70 years. If it can be done to Korea, why not in Afghanistan? Again, do you really think stationing around 8000 US troop in Afghanistan every year will bankrupt the US?? 

Again, what you failed to realise is the withdrawal of US is one man's decision, we can stay there for as long as we need and as long as Public Support are there. I mean, you are free to believe what you want to believe. It's not at all minimal effort, even compare to Iraqi War which cost us around 4 trillion in 8 years and we still keep a contingent there. It's not hard to see if we can do that in Iraq and South Korea or even Japan, we can do that in Afghanistan.



925boy said:


> thats a lie - US was already overspent, drained, and unable to meet its unrealistic, imperialist+ "democratic transformation" goals by the time that man promised to pull out of Afghanistan- why ignore the truth that majority of AMericans wanted US military out of Afghanistan because it was a lost cause? that's what that man /leader smartly preyed on - most leaders were so smart they were too stupid to do what the American public wanted - dont blame him, blame the US military that cant win wars, and makes them expensive for US taxpayers, who then have revoked US military's ability to start senseless wars Americans cant afford and they wont win.
> 
> irrelevant


lol, sure, everything was a lies to you, go read the poll on Afghanistan between 2015-2021 and see how people really think.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Again, what you failed to realise...


No, they do realize, and by 'they' I mean all those who asserted that the US 'lost' or that the Taliban 'defeated' the US. They know better. They know that they are talking nonsense, especially military nonsense. This is about minimizing what the US done and done with impunity in others' backyards.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> No, they do realize, and by 'they' I mean all those who asserted that the US 'lost' or that the Taliban 'defeated' the US. They know better. They know that they are talking nonsense, especially military nonsense. This is about minimizing what the US done and done with impunity in others' backyards.


Well, I don't see things in a favourable prospective, just because I am pro-West does not mean I have to tow any of their line, in fact, I am one of those people who echo to pull our troop out as there are nothing to be had, the continue deployment in RS is more or less waste of time and money. 

To start, the feat US can come in from 9000 mile away and expel a country's political and military force on their home turf, that in itself is a feat, I dare say not one country in this world currently have this capability. Not Russia, Not China, not UK or even EU. That undertaking itself is immense, if you ever see the logistic depot and forward logistic base at work in Camp Bastion or KAF, you will know how big this operation was, and to fight on an away game, no less, that's no one in this world can replicate. 

On the other hand, the entire war basically depends on what US does, or does not do. As I mentioned, even the decision to pull troop come from US unilaterally, that's without even the consent from the Afghan. How does it translate to "Taliban have control the situation and kick US out" I mean Taliban never had any momentum until basically Doha Accord was signed and Trump accelerated the withdrawal plan.

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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> I realise this, it will definitely be in Chains and Russias interest that US spends all its resources on another failed invasion of some far flung place. So expect then to actively try to make this happen.
> 
> Im not going to beg US to not tear itself apart. if thats what they want fine, but I'm just trying to be practical.
> 
> I believe if another such attack happens they might want to consider bombing the people that did it and greater government surveillance. Repeating the thing again and again, in this case Afghanistan invasion, and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.


Just because the US can invade does not mean that they will do it.
They may just start hunting the Taliban Leadership.
Drones and B-21 bombers will make life miserable enough.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571494136183754752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571643591956520965

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## thetutle

gambit said:


> No, they do realize, and by 'they' I mean all those who asserted that the US 'lost' or that the Taliban 'defeated' the US. They know better. They know that they are talking nonsense, especially military nonsense. This is about minimizing what the US done and done with impunity in others' backyards.


I dont doubt US strength, its unparalleled. There are many countries US can defeat. Russia, china, all of EU. It can however not defeat Taliban or prevent them from ruling Afghanistan. This it seems will take some time to sink in and be accepted by many Americans. And its This lack of understanding and insight which led to the US defeat in Afghanistan.

Yes Taliban lost more soldiers, but their flag flies over Kabul. By any measure they won the war.

You lost, accept it, move on and learn from it. or dont. make no difference to me. Do it again but at your own peril.

US won in Afghanistan the same way russia will win in Ukraine. It will withdraw and declare total victory and all objectives achieved.

US won in Afghanistan the same way Japan won Ww2. you see Japan just got tired of fighting and there was no more domestic support for the war, particularly in Nagasaki, and a small group of Japanese leaders decided its better to end the war for their own political future.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Yes Taliban lost more soldiers, but their flag flies over Kabul. By any measure they won the war.



Taliban has fast reproduction rate. Birth rate in Afghanistan is about 4 to 6 kids per woman compare to 1.6 kids per woman in the US. Also, Afghanistan has a very young population. By comparison, the US has a very old population.


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## aviator_fan

SalarHaqq said:


> For those who still have minimal critical thinking left, and those who've grown tired of the constant, unidimensional, bogus NATO propaganda feed, here's an objective and instructive analysis of the Ukrainian offensive in Kharkov by a military professional, former USA Marine Corps intelligence officer and UN arms inspector Scott Ritter:


So you have the analysis of a convicted sex offender against a minor, being interviewed by somebody that only has a youtube channel? What exactly do you have here? Thats lots of Ukrainians died? Don't you think they know that?

I will buy this if you post an alternate view to Russia's propaganda machine that is not what KGB is feeding Russia. Oh wait, no you would be shot or imprisoned in Russia if you came up with an alternate view that explained why Russians have to go to their prisoner population.

For some reason, Russian propoganda is okay and take that as truth, but NATO is not. Stop parrotting Putin's bullsh**



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Taliban has fast reproduction rate. Birth rate in Afghanistan is about 4 to 6 kids per woman compare to 1.6 kids per woman in the US. Also, Afghanistan has a very young population. By comparison, the US has a very old population.


Afghanistan is sadly living on starvation where parents have to sell their kids in the country side. There is zero industry. If you are so enamored by life in Afghanistan, move there.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571615959214952449
> 
> 
> The US started the war by arming Ukrainians to butcher Russians. Russians have no choice but to defend themselves.


Make up your mind: You are posting the same video accusing the Germans of starting this. Is this the only thing you have that indicates that?

And what is your motivation on posting this: that Russia should be excused the humiliation because its innocent.

No war is started by an innocent or guilty. The world of global chess is blind to right and wrong. Given that war has started , why does it matter now. 

This would be the equivalent of being in trench warfare and be debating the merits of Archduke of Ferdinand.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine doesn't have enough soldiers to take Kherson. With 35 million people it's not enough to fight 148 million Russians + 5 million rebels. If Ukraine has 100 to 200 million people they can have a chance of taking Kherson.


There you go with the population crap again. Israel has brought to knees all its arab neighbors in every war (4 countries). China was useless against Vietnam, a fraction of its size.

Muslim Moghuls were outnumbered by Hindus 10 to 1 and ruled them for 100s of years.

And all these years, China was useless against Taiwan (50s, 60s, 70s, 80s)
Get this stupid concept out of your head.



alimobin memon said:


> Russian buying iranian drones does not mean they lack in every aspect. Remember that americans use rh 120 gun on m1a2 cause there old gun wasnt effective as they wanted so the german gun was tot'd by us of a. Same is the case that the russians lacked drone fleet or numbers for war so compensated by buying from ally. Americans bough some systems from allies that they realized are good in afghanistan and iraq war. But you cannot conclude that since they are buying those means they are compensating loses.
> 
> Heres my 2 pence, they are buying ammo from north korea and iran is because as I have stated earlier that the russians are using mostly reserves from ussr era and there ammo is still produced by iran and north korea. Since the armata tank introduction the afv, apc and other combat systems of armata family there focus is shifting. It's not like north korean rounds are being used used yet in ukraine. Rather they are just insurance incase of issues with production and storage since ammos do expire this is just insurance of what if...
> 
> Russia always had these reserves which were to be used in war scenario. Not all reserves ae obsolete tanks there are t90s and t80s too in reserves


Sage analysis of using older armaments in the war here so replinishing from these countries. 

Air Force however is not using vintage: they are using all current front-line aircraft (or were before they stopped). Why the inconsistency?

And this is a doomed war if you go in using your backward weapons: what are Russians saving their newer weapons for? Fighting Finland?

And lastly, they must have a weakness in their industrial capacity to replenish their newer ones if they are choosing to preserve them.

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## thetutle

aviator_fan said:


> Muslim Moghuls were outnumbered by Hindus 10 to 1 and ruled them for 100s of years.
> 
> And all these years, China was useless against Taiwan (50s, 60s, 70s, 80s)
> Get this stupid concept out of your head.


The more of a population of a potential adversary lives in total delusion the better it is for us. I would encourage him to think the way he does.

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## gambit

thetutle said:


> I dont doubt US strength, its unparalleled. There are many countries US can defeat. Russia, china, all of EU. It can however not defeat Taliban or prevent them from ruling Afghanistan. This it seems will take some time to sink in and be accepted by many Americans. And its This lack of understanding and insight which led to the US defeat in Afghanistan.
> 
> Yes Taliban lost more soldiers, but their flag flies over Kabul. *By any measure they won the war.*
> 
> You lost, accept it, move on and learn from it. or dont. make no difference to me. Do it again but at your own peril.
> 
> US won in Afghanistan the same way russia will win in Ukraine. It will withdraw and declare total victory and all objectives achieved.
> 
> US won in Afghanistan the same way Japan won Ww2. you see Japan just got tired of fighting and there was no more domestic support for the war, particularly in Nagasaki, and a small group of Japanese leaders decided its better to end the war for their own political future.


By any measure? That is where you are wrong because that comment implied there are many standards upon which to assess a war. And the military standards? We won. A war -- a *REAL* war -- start with combat. Not rhetoric or argument, but actual fighting. Combat is actually simple to understand. One side remain standing, the other side lie on the ground. But precisely that a 'war' have non-combat contexts that allows what constitutes 'winning' to be in play and the further away that context from actual fighting, the easier it is to assess who actually 'won' the war.

Afghanistan is the 'graveyard of empires' as so many pretentiously repeated to pretend they are so wise and prescient. *BULLSHIT...!!!*

Why the F did so many empires managed to get into Afghanistan in the first place? Anybody bothered to ask that question? Because Afghanistan does not have defenders, as in a military that is willing to sacrifice itself at the borders. The US military did not lose to the Taliban. We did not left Afghanistan because we finally learned how fierce was the Taliban as a combat force. We left because we got tired of trying to lift the country out of the dark ages. That goal have nothing to do with fighting, at least not physically fighting. So because it is remote from military affairs, that allows people like you to interpret wars and winnings any way you like.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

SIPRA said:


> I fail to understand that when, according to a number of posters, on this thread, Ukraine has already defeated Russia; then why this thread is continuing. It should better be closed.


Easy to understand:

1. Its the single place to look at Russia's version of it
2. And for all the Russia supporters, its the only place where they can keep talking about Afghanistan and NATO, or NATO's coloniolism and all else as if that makes Russia's inability to win a sure thing excusable. Nobody said NATO were angels: war needs to wrap up so fertilizer can get produced, wheat exported, and the starving poor don't have to keep on getting screwed again.

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## Viet

Ukraine army advance unstoppable.
The spearhead has crossed the Oskil and now controlling the East river bank. Seems the russian defense positions at the river after Charkiw retreat are overrun.










Ukraine strengthens hold on liberated lands, separatist calls for urgent referendum


Ukraine extended its hold on recently recaptured territory as troops marched farther east into areas abandoned by Russia.




www.reuters.com

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> The US military did not lose to the Taliban. We did not left Afghanistan because we finally learned how fierce was the Taliban as a combat force.


I tell you what I have learn or what to some extend what US military have learn. 

Taliban is very good at playing Whack-a-mole. They are a master of cave. 

I don't know how "fierce" they fought, because most of their time, they would choose not to fight us. They just hide in the cave been doing so for the last 20 years.

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## Viet

The planned high speed railway will connect the Baltics to central Europe. The link to Russia will become history.









The high-speed rail project cutting Baltic states' ties with Russia


Rail Baltica is connecting the Baltics to Europe’s rail network, another sign of how the Baltics have swung away from Russia to the West.




www.euronews.com










Artist's impression of a future station along the Rail Baltica route. - Copyright


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Ukraine army advance unstoppable.
> The spearhead has crossed the Oskil and now controlling the East river bank. Seems the russian defense positions at the river after Charkiw retreat are overrun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine strengthens hold on liberated lands, separatist calls for urgent referendum
> 
> 
> Ukraine extended its hold on recently recaptured territory as troops marched farther east into areas abandoned by Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



As I said before, they have abandoned the entire Svatove - Kremina - Sieverodonetsk line. They are drawing troop down south, which is strange considering their PMC and VDV still trying to push forward in Siversky and Bakhmut......

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> I tell you what I have learn or what to some extend what US military have learn.
> 
> Taliban is very good at playing Whack-a-mole. They are a master of cave.
> 
> I don't know how "fierce" they fought, because most of their time, they would choose not to fight us. They just hide in the cave been doing so for the last 20 years.


If they didn't fight then why did NATO run?



gambit said:


> By any measure? That is where you are wrong because that comment implied there are many standards upon which to assess a war. And the military standards? We won. A war -- a *REAL* war -- start with combat. Not rhetoric or argument, but actual fighting. Combat is actually simple to understand. One side remain standing, the other side lie on the ground. But precisely that a 'war' have non-combat contexts that allows what constitutes 'winning' to be in play and the further away that context from actual fighting, the easier it is to assess who actually 'won' the war.
> 
> Afghanistan is the 'graveyard of empires' as so many pretentiously repeated to pretend they are so wise and prescient. *BULLSHIT...!!!*
> 
> Why the F did so many empires managed to get into Afghanistan in the first place? Anybody bothered to ask that question? Because Afghanistan does not have defenders, as in a military that is willing to sacrifice itself at the borders. The US military did not lose to the Taliban. We did not left Afghanistan because we finally learned how fierce was the Taliban as a combat force. We left because we got tired of trying to lift the country out of the dark ages. That goal have nothing to do with fighting, at least not physically fighting. So because it is remote from military affairs, that allows people like you to interpret wars and winnings any way you like.


Create a separate thread for "Why did NATO leave Afghanistan" as this thread is for Ukraine-Russia war.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> As I said before, they have abandoned the entire Svatove - Kremina - Sieverodonetsk line. They are drawing troop down south, which is strange considering their PMC and VDV still trying to push forward in Siversky and Bakhmut......


Yes they do so because they have received Putin’s order to take Bakhmut at all costs. While the rest focusing to bomb Ukraine infrastructure and terrorize the population. Putin the greatest military leader in the universe. The neonazi Wagner will do the dirty job.

However taking Bakhmut won’t be easy. Ukraine has dug in heavily fortified bunkers and positions.


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> If they didn't fight then why did NATO run?


Ask Trump. Third time I said this, Trump pull the deal out by himself, it was neither needed or wanted. I don't know why he did that but I can guess, because he is losing in the poll and the only thing he say he will do but didn't is to pull troop off Afghanistan,

Trump leave when we are in the middle of Resolute Support, Taliban activities were minimum during 2017, 2018, and 2019, so much so Trump's own National Security Advisor deem it is safe enough to transfer sensitive Military Article to Afghanistan, that's where the Blackhawk, Little Bird were signed to Afghanistan, and even deals with Boeing to sell Chinook to the Afghan.

Either the Trump's NSA team were shit, or got paid to do that, or it's really that safe to do so, the spike only come after Doha Agreement and after the Troop draw down. That's lead to increase Taliban Activities, not the other way around.

As for whether or not Taliban is capable fighting, name me one FOB, COB that was overrun by Taliban. I am not even asking you to name regional command base or big base like KAF or Bastion. Small FOB and COB only, name me some of them being overrun by Taliban?



Viet said:


> Yes they do so because they have received Putin’s order to take Bakhmut at all costs. While the rest focusing to bomb Ukraine infrastructure and terrorize the population. Putin the greatest military leader in the universe. The neonazi Wagner will do the dirty job.
> 
> However taking Bakhmut won’t be easy. Ukraine has dug in heavily fortified bunkers and positions.


There is virtually no way for them to take Bakhmut, they had tried that since July when they took Lysychansk, even if they somehow manage to take it, that would be moot because once Ukrainian took Svatove and Sieverodonetsk, and they will because the Russia is abandoning the line there, they can just isolate and encircle Bakhmut had they lost them, making that push pointless.


----------



## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Ask Trump. Third time I said this, Trump pull the deal out by himself, it was neither needed or wanted. I don't know why he did that but I can guess, because he is losing in the poll and the only thing he say he will do but didn't is to pull troop off Afghanistan,
> 
> Trump leave when we are in the middle of Resolute Support, Taliban activities were minimum during 2017, 2018, and 2019, so much so Trump's own National Security Advisor deem it is safe enough to transfer sensitive Military Article to Afghanistan, that's where the Blackhawk, Little Bird were signed to Afghanistan, and even deals with Boeing to sell Chinook to the Afghan.
> 
> Either the Trump's NSA team were shit, or got paid to do that, or it's really that safe to do so, the spike only come after Doha Agreement and after the Troop draw down. That's lead to increase Taliban Activities, not the other way around.
> 
> As for whether or not Taliban is capable fighting, name me one FOB, COB that was overrun by Taliban. I am not even asking you to name regional command base or big base like KAF or Bastion. Small FOB and COB only, name me some of them being overrun by Taliban?
> 
> 
> There is virtually no way for them to take Bakhmut, they had tried that since July when they took Lysychansk, even if they somehow manage to take it, that would be moot because once Ukrainian took Svatove and Sieverodonetsk, and they will because the Russia is abandoning the line there, they can just isolate and encircle Bakhmut had they lost them, making that push pointless.



Well the US generals beg to differ from you, so soldier, just keep it shut and follow orders.





__





Loading…






www.washingtonpost.com




U.S. lost war in Afghanistan through miscalculations spanning multiple administrations, Milley tells lawmakers​By Karoun Demirjian
and 
Alex Horton

September 29, 2021 at 6:13 p.m. EDT

Milley: Afghanistan war was 'lost' through decisions spanning 20 years
1:01

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark A. Milley on Sept. 29 said the Afghanistan war was “lost” through decisions spanning multiple administrations. (Video: The Washington Post, Photo: Rod Lamkey/Pool via AP/The Washington Post)

Comment
1475

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_Correction: A previous version of this story stated incorrectly that Gen. Mark A. Milley described the war in Afghanistan as a loss for the first time publicly on Wednesday. He described the conflict’s outcome in similar terms Tuesday._

President Biden’s top military adviser told lawmakers Wednesday that the war in Afghanistan was lost through pivotal decisions spanning four previous administrations, offering his latest defense of the commander in chief whose order to end the 20-year campaign and the treacherous evacuation that followed have come under withering scrutiny on Capitol Hill.

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## alimobin memon

aviator_fan said:


> There you go with the population crap again. Israel has brought to knees all its arab neighbors in every war (4 countries). China was useless against Vietnam, a fraction of its size.
> 
> Muslim Moghuls were outnumbered by Hindus 10 to 1 and ruled them for 100s of years.
> 
> And all these years, China was useless against Taiwan (50s, 60s, 70s, 80s)
> Get this stupid concept out of your head.
> 
> 
> Sage analysis of using older armaments in the war here so replenishing from these countries.
> 
> Air Force however is not using vintage: they are using all current front-line aircraft (or were before they stopped). Why the inconsistency?
> 
> And this is a doomed war if you go in using your backward weapons: what are Russians saving their newer weapons for? Fighting Finland?
> 
> And lastly, they must have a weakness in their industrial capacity to replenish their newer ones if they are choosing to preserve them.


I saw the pattern of limited usage of air force for airstrikes. Could be due to the factor of having limited numbers of good fighters on Russian side and expectation that NATO could intervene. Yes they have many weaknesses but not enough to make remarks that they are lacking in ammunition or so. The way media is portraying and there is already new thread that Russians have no to very low stockpile left of cruise missiles. if you check defense industry of N.Korea they make plenty of these 152mm shells and Russian Artillery comprises of 152mm a lot. even new 155mm artillery has compatibility with 152mm. If I was Russian and in control of arms procurement then I would have bought additional artillery from friendlies as insurance.

*what are Russians saving their newer weapons for? *

Well obviously NATO intervention at full scale. Plus, the fact that the true estimation of end of war shouldnt be less than 3 to 5 years.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Well the US generals beg to differ from you, so soldier, just keep it shut and follow orders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.washingtonpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. lost war in Afghanistan through miscalculations spanning multiple administrations, Milley tells lawmakers​By Karoun Demirjian
> and
> Alex Horton
> 
> September 29, 2021 at 6:13 p.m. EDT
> 
> Milley: Afghanistan war was 'lost' through decisions spanning 20 years
> 1:01
> 
> Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark A. Milley on Sept. 29 said the Afghanistan war was “lost” through decisions spanning multiple administrations. (Video: The Washington Post, Photo: Rod Lamkey/Pool via AP/The Washington Post)
> 
> Comment
> 1475
> 
> Gift Article
> Share
> _Correction: A previous version of this story stated incorrectly that Gen. Mark A. Milley described the war in Afghanistan as a loss for the first time publicly on Wednesday. He described the conflict’s outcome in similar terms Tuesday._
> 
> President Biden’s top military adviser told lawmakers Wednesday that the war in Afghanistan was lost through pivotal decisions spanning four previous administrations, offering his latest defense of the commander in chief whose order to end the 20-year campaign and the treacherous evacuation that followed have come under withering scrutiny on Capitol Hill.
> 
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Well, try to read between the line

He said "“lost” through *decisions* spanning multiple administrations." It's quite clear he meant the Agreement to withdraw troop from Afghan by Trump, but he can't say that since he was the President and miltiary cannot be political, so he literally just went and blame the entire line of administration.

Again, if Taliban is really that "Fierce" fighter we all fear, tell me which COP and FOB they overrun? So we can be fear of them?? Lol

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## merzifonlu

khansaheeb said:


> Create a separate thread for "Why did NATO leave Afghanistan" as this thread is for Ukraine-Russia war.


I totally agree with you. Why NATO left Afghanistan is another matter entirely. It should be discussed in another topic.

By the way, I think Trump's smartest decision was to leave Afghanistan. You cannot force people to change. If they want to live in the Middle Ages, let them do so. As long as they don't interfere with others.

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## gambit

khansaheeb said:


> Create a separate thread for "Why did NATO leave Afghanistan" as this thread is for Ukraine-Russia war.


And yet, it is usually not Americans who brought up Afghanistan in other threads...



jhungary said:


> Again, if Taliban is really that "Fierce" fighter we all fear, tell me which COP and FOB they overrun? So we can be fear of them?? Lol


Looks like Ukrainians are fiercer fighters than the Taliban. The Ukrainians are actually planning and executing combat operations while the Taliban hid in caves and among civilians waiting for Americans to get tired of being away from home.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Ask Trump. Third time I said this, Trump pull the deal out by himself, it was neither needed or wanted. I don't know why he did that but I can guess, because he is losing in the poll and the only thing he say he will do but didn't is to pull troop off Afghanistan,
> 
> Trump leave when we are in the middle of Resolute Support, Taliban activities were minimum during 2017, 2018, and 2019, so much so Trump's own National Security Advisor deem it is safe enough to transfer sensitive Military Article to Afghanistan, that's where the Blackhawk, Little Bird were signed to Afghanistan, and even deals with Boeing to sell Chinook to the Afghan.
> 
> Either the Trump's NSA team were shit, or got paid to do that, or it's really that safe to do so, the spike only come after Doha Agreement and after the Troop draw down. That's lead to increase Taliban Activities, not the other way around.
> 
> As for whether or not Taliban is capable fighting, name me one FOB, COB that was overrun by Taliban. I am not even asking you to name regional command base or big base like KAF or Bastion. Small FOB and COB only, name me some of them being overrun by Taliban?
> 
> 
> There is virtually no way for them to take Bakhmut, they had tried that since July when they took Lysychansk, even if they somehow manage to take it, that would be moot because once Ukrainian took Svatove and Sieverodonetsk, and they will because the Russia is abandoning the line there, they can just isolate and encircle Bakhmut had they lost them, making that push pointless.


Perfect opportunity
Ukraine army can finish the Wagner.
Let’s them coming.


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Perfect opportunity
> Ukraine army can finish the Wagner.
> Let’s them coming.


Well, if they start recruiting from Prison, I will say they are already finished......

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## gambit

merzifonlu said:


> By the way, I think Trump's smartest decision was to leave Afghanistan. You cannot force people to change. If they want to live in the Middle Ages, let them do so. *As long as they don't interfere with others.*


And who is going to enforce that? You?

When Afghanistan hosted Al Qaeda, whose ideology and intents are well known, that constituted interference in other countries' affairs. And it looks like Afghanistan under the Taliban is returning to that relationship.

Finally, first you commented that Afghanistan belongs in another thread, but then you commented on Afghanistan that everyone know would likely compel responses. Looks like you just cannot help yourself.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, if they start recruiting from Prison, I will say they are already finished......


Criminals, sex convicts. Now they even seek recruits in mental hospitals.
That is the new multipolar world Putin dreams of. China is happy in joining because it seeks a new democracic order as well.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> And yet, it is usually not Americans who brought up Afghanistan in other threads...
> 
> 
> Looks like Ukrainians are fiercer fighters than the Taliban. The Ukrainians are actually planning and executing combat operations while the Taliban hid in caves and among civilians waiting for Americans to get tired of being away from home.


The motivation is different......

For the Ukrainian, their motivation is not to see Russian in their land for any second they do not need to.

For the Taliban, their motivation is to sit in the cave for 20 years and hope that one day the occupier would elect a selfish president and got bored and go home.



Viet said:


> Criminals, sex convicts. Now they even seek recruits in mental hospitals.
> That is the new multipolar world Putin dreams of. China is happy in joining because it seeks a new democracic order as well.


Well, I would watch my back if I was a Russian if they start recruiting from mental hospital, I mean these people are really crazy, like REALLY Crazy.......


----------



## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> The motivation is different......
> 
> For the Ukrainian, their motivation is not to see Russian in their land for any second they do not need to.
> 
> For the Taliban, their motivation is to sit in the cave for 20 years and hope that one day the occupier would elect a selfish president and got bored and go home.
> 
> 
> Well, I would watch my back if I was a Russian if they start recruiting from mental hospital, I mean these people are really crazy, like REALLY Crazy.......



Ridiculous narrative there is no charity in wars.. If you allow an enemy to stay they will settle forever. Look at British India for reference.

Nobody has ever occupied Afghanistan nor Colony era happened there neither because they made it hell for anyone who came in.. There was fighting everyday in Afghanistan. It was just under-reported for obvious reasons but the Taliban controlled 40% of afghanistan for like 15+ years in the 20 year war.. Until the otherside burned thru 20 trillion USD in the war of attrition.

Even for the US printing capability this was to much spend on an empty backward they had no intention of using that much money.. Afghan-US war is the most expensive war in history..

The Soviet union didn't collapse in Afghanistan out of fluke..

Ukraine is not Afghanistan they will not push out Russia and will likely settle for a ceasefire and release the eastern part to Russia.. Plus Russia ain't collasping in Ukraine they simply are not Afghans.

They don't have the consistency.. 1st year, 2nd year , 4th year etc etc that is not when fatigue sets in but in the 5th to 8th year the enemy will start to lose resolve you just keep up the consistency. The Afghans know how to break an Enemies resolve slowly. They all have limits.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Drwho

aviator_fan said:


> There you go with the population crap again. Israel has brought to knees all its arab neighbors in every war (4 countries). China was useless against Vietnam, a fraction of its size.
> 
> Muslim Moghuls were outnumbered by Hindus 10 to 1 and ruled them for 100s of years.
> 
> And all these years, China was useless against Taiwan (50s, 60s, 70s, 80s)
> Get this stupid concept out of your head.
> 
> 
> Sage analysis of using older armaments in the war here so replinishing from these countries.
> 
> Air Force however is not using vintage: they are using all current front-line aircraft (or were before they stopped). Why the inconsistency?
> 
> And this is a doomed war if you go in using your backward weapons: what are Russians saving their newer weapons for? Fighting Finland?
> 
> And lastly, they must have a weakness in their industrial capacity to replenish their newer ones if they are choosing to preserve them.


Ur right the wars of today are technology orientated which means not much manpower needed
But still in a prolonged warfare one would need young population to fight


----------



## Viet

alimobin memon said:


> I saw the pattern of limited usage of air force for airstrikes. Could be due to the factor of having limited numbers of good fighters on Russian side and expectation that NATO could intervene. Yes they have many weaknesses but not enough to make remarks that they are lacking in ammunition or so. The way media is portraying and there is already new thread that Russians have no to very low stockpile left of cruise missiles. if you check defense industry of N.Korea they make plenty of these 152mm shells and Russian Artillery comprises of 152mm a lot. even new 155mm artillery has compatibility with 152mm. If I was Russian and in control of arms procurement then I would have bought additional artillery from friendlies as insurance.
> 
> *what are Russians saving their newer weapons for? *
> 
> Well obviously NATO intervention at full scale. Plus, the fact that the true estimation of end of war shouldnt be less than 3 to 5 years.


It’s just math. During heavy fightings in summer Russia artillery fires on average 60,000 shells per day. That includes missiles. Or 1.8 million per month. 5.4 million 3 months. Even Russia has mountains of ammo at some point they run out of ammo. Why’s difficult to understand?


----------



## alimobin memon

Viet said:


> It’s just math. During heavy fightings in summer Russia artillery fires on average 60,000 shells per day. That includes missiles. Or 1.8 million per month. 5.4 million 3 months. Even Russia has mountains of ammo at some point they run out of ammo. Why’s difficult to understand?


Nothing is unlimited. Who says its difficult to understand. but this is Russia you are talking about they stockpile last for 2 3 years. its not always the case of 60K per day. its in peak conditions. these figures are for peak point. if they are short they just buy from friendlies simple.

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## Viet

alimobin memon said:


> Nothing is unlimited. Who says its difficult to understand. but this is Russia you are talking about they stockpile last for 2 3 years. its not always the case of 60K per day. its in peak conditions. these figures are for peak point. if they are short they just buy from friendlies simple.


I don’t know how large Russia ammo stockpile is, probably only Shoigu knows it. Probably huge. They prefer ammo over foods. Putin planned this special ops as 3-day war, he as genius never imagined that could last months or years. Well ok then not surprising when running low, he turns to countries that make Soviet ammo. China, Vietnam, Cuba or North Korea.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Can't wait to see the ukrainians kill the russian subhu- I mean Orcs with this

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571684272666189827

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## Reashot Xigwin

Honesty in my Russian media?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571266222871789575


----------



## ZeGerman

Battlion25 said:


> Ridiculous narrative there is no charity in wars.. If you allow an enemy to stay they will settle forever. Look at British India for reference.
> 
> Nobody has ever occupied Afghanistan nor Colony era happened there neither because they made it hell for anyone who came in.. There was fighting everyday in Afghanistan. It was just under-reported for obvious reasons but the Taliban controlled 40% of afghanistan for like 15+ years in the 20 year war.. Until the otherside burned thru 20 trillion USD in the war of attrition.
> 
> Even for the US printing capability this was to much spend on an empty backward they had no intention of using that much money.. Afghan-US war is the most expensive war in history..
> 
> The Soviet union didn't collapse in Afghanistan out of fluke..
> 
> Ukraine is not Afghanistan they will not push out Russia and will likely settle for a ceasefire and release the eastern part to Russia.. Plus Russia ain't collasping in Ukraine they simply are not Afghans.
> 
> They don't have the consistency.. 1st year, 2nd year , 4th year etc etc that is not when fatigue sets in but in the 5th to 8th year the enemy will start to lose resolve you just keep up the consistency. The Afghans know how to break an Enemies resolve slowly. They all have limits.


People are talking about occupation and defeating US military, coalition “running” are just in denial of reality.

America went in to oust taliban and AQ. 
Mission sucess there. 
Then came the exit strategy. 
Goal was set to change afghanistan into a pro-american democracy. 

It was never americas goal to occupy/colonize afghanistan. Coalition was always there temporary.
Once the Afghan state was set up and ready to fend for itself…coalition would leave. 

What caused the defeat in this war, was basically completely underestimating the efforts involved to remake afghanistan in a functioning state…and take up and fight for modern/western values. 

You can hardly boast that Coalition military was defeated and “run off” when they never lost 1 battle, and coalition yearly casualties were 30 a year at the end. 

We spend hundreds of billions and a decade training ANA to fend for themselves only for them to throw their weapons away and run (often begging to migrate to the west…). That is a culture clash and miscalculation politically and training/doctrine wise. 
But lets not dream up this myth of the taliban “defeating the USA military and having them run from afghanistan”. Its Bullshit.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571744180300353543

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571744929935769603


----------



## patero

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Honesty in my Russian media?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571266222871789575


This doesn't surprise me at all. Many people don't believe me when I say that Russians are the most brutal and inhumane group of people to ever walk the face of the Earth. I know its a generalization to say that, and I have had some good Russian friends that I worked with, but the kind of thought processes demonstrated in this video pervades their society.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Honesty in my Russian media?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571266222871789575


Rediculous russian propaganda shit

Yes I can confirm we still have electricity in Germany. the natural gas price makes me happy: downward trend continues. $178 per MWh. Down from the peak $354. the price will touch $170 this week. The market expects $155 for winter 2023.





__





ICE Futures and Options | Product Guide


Contracts are for physical delivery through the transfer of rights in respect of Natural Gas at the Title Transfer Facility (TTF) Virtual Trading Point, operated by Gasunie Transport Services (GTS), the transmission system operator in the Netherlands. Delivery is made equally each hour...




www.theice.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571702345473343492


----------



## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> Ridiculous narrative there is no charity in wars.. If you allow an enemy to stay they will settle forever. Look at British India for reference.
> 
> Nobody has ever occupied Afghanistan nor Colony era happened there neither because they made it hell for anyone who came in.. There was fighting everyday in Afghanistan. It was just under-reported for obvious reasons but the Taliban controlled 40% of afghanistan for like 15+ years in the 20 year war.. Until the otherside burned thru 20 trillion USD in the war of attrition.
> 
> Even for the US printing capability this was to much spend on an empty backward they had no intention of using that much money.. Afghan-US war is the most expensive war in history..
> 
> The Soviet union didn't collapse in Afghanistan out of fluke..
> 
> Ukraine is not Afghanistan they will not push out Russia and will likely settle for a ceasefire and release the eastern part to Russia.. Plus Russia ain't collasping in Ukraine they simply are not Afghans.
> 
> They don't have the consistency.. 1st year, 2nd year , 4th year etc etc that is not when fatigue sets in but in the 5th to 8th year the enemy will start to lose resolve you just keep up the consistency. The Afghans know how to break an Enemies resolve slowly. They all have limits.


the only thing i would agree is "The Soviet union didn't collapse in Afghanistan out of fluke.."

You seem to have forgotten where the Afghan get their weapon and training from.

As for Ukraine. unless you can see into the future, no one can comment on what will happen after 1st year or 5th years of the war. The thing is, Russia is ALREADY in an untenable position now, I mean, sure, Ukraine can go full retard to prosecute this war and lost the edge back to Russia, but the chances of it will happen is more or less slim to zilch. 

but i can tell you one thing tho, having been to Ukraine and met with, train with people who are now fighting, i can tell you this war is not going to settle, that's because they don't ever trust the Russian, and if they settle, it's just going to repeat what happening since Feb again sometime down the road, I don't know if Comarade Putin will fancy another try, but most Ukrainian I know think any peace talk or settlement will only serve as a breather for Putin, he will undoubtedly broke the deal, fact is, he has already broke 2.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571756174818824193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571740239680471041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571740244621279233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571731282144694272


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571799125187862534


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You can NEVER defeat Taliban, that's an organisation, and they move between country to country, from Afghanistan to Pakistan and to Yemen, to do that you will need to invade multiple country, but then they will still move on to country that harbor the ideology. It's like telling PLA to try to defeat Google. Can they be done militarily? Even if PLA successfully invaded US and control the entire US, Google will still be operating in UK, EU or Australia. That's the same idea.


seem you somehow mistaken Taliban with Al-Qaeda or ISIS


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> seem you somehow mistaken Taliban with Al-Qaeda or ISIS


Tell me what is Taliban if that is not an organisation.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571815972343881728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571815993810493441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571810928144027651

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571812231184089089

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571770741611192320


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571810517466980352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571814514001149952

Ukraine grows stronger as Russia gets weaker and weaker

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571810517466980352
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571814514001149952
> 
> Ukraine grows stronger as Russia gets weaker and weaker



Can't wait for the US lend lease. Hope it will be even better than Russia's lend lease.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Can't wait for the US lend lease. Hope it will be even better than Russia's lend lease.



Russia royally f’d itself. Ukraine will now become one of THE most powerful militaries in the world and a close ally to the West.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Tell me what is Taliban if that is not an organisation.


what to tell , they are different , never operated outside Afghanistan and actually right now are at war with ISIS


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571784865959264258


----------



## gambit

Battlion25 said:


> Ridiculous narrative there is no charity in wars.. If you allow an enemy to stay they will settle forever. Look at British India for reference.
> 
> Nobody has ever occupied Afghanistan nor Colony era happened there neither because they made it hell for anyone who came in.. There was fighting everyday in Afghanistan. It was just under-reported for obvious reasons but the Taliban controlled 40% of afghanistan for like 15+ years in the 20 year war.. Until the otherside burned thru 20 trillion USD in the war of attrition.
> 
> Even for the US printing capability this was to much spend on an empty backward they had no intention of using that much money.. Afghan-US war is the most expensive war in history..
> 
> The Soviet union didn't collapse in Afghanistan out of fluke..
> 
> Ukraine is not Afghanistan they will not push out Russia and will likely settle for a ceasefire and release the eastern part to Russia.. Plus Russia ain't collasping in Ukraine they simply are not Afghans.
> 
> They don't have the consistency.. 1st year, 2nd year , 4th year etc etc that is not when fatigue sets in but in the 5th to 8th year the enemy will start to lose resolve you just keep up the consistency. The Afghans know how to break an Enemies resolve slowly. They all have limits.


No one said you cannot assert the Soviets and the Americans 'lost' in Afghanistan, but there is a catch...All you have to do is go to your generals and make that assertion to their faces and see how hard they laugh.

The reason they laugh, at least inwardly so as not to offend you, is that the military have a different context of 'lost' and 'losing' than civilians. For the military, any military, losing a war is harsh because they actually lose something, like a limb or even life, when they are wrong, while for civilians, when they casually talk of 'lost' or 'losing', the worst they ever lose is their credibility when they are wrong. Civilians can go on with their lives unaffected whereas I have to suffer PTSD, difficult to move because I am less one leg, nowhere to get a job, jolt whenever I hear a loud noise, and cannot hold a conversation with my family and friends. For the military, losing a war is physical while for civilians losing is theoretical.

So yes, by all means, assert that the US 'lost' to the Taliban. And see how many armies would believe you and take on the US military just on your say so.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

gambit said:


> No one said you cannot assert the Soviets and the Americans 'lost' in Afghanistan, but there is a catch...All you have to do is go to your generals and make that assertion to their faces and see how hard they laugh.
> 
> The reason they laugh, at least inwardly so as not to offend you, is that the military have a different context of 'lost' and 'losing' than civilians. For the military, any military, losing a war is harsh because they actually lose something, like a limb or even life, when they are wrong, while for civilians, when they casually talk of 'lost' or 'losing', the worst they ever lose is their credibility when they are wrong. Civilians can go on with their lives unaffected whereas I have to suffer PTSD, difficult to move because I am less one leg, nowhere to get a job, jolt whenever I hear a loud noise, and cannot hold a conversation with my family and friends. For the military, losing a war is physical while for civilians losing is theoretical.
> 
> So yes, by all means, assert that the US 'lost' to the Taliban. And see how many armies would believe you and take on the US military just on your say so.



You can do a war even if you don't have a single casualty. You can win a war even if you have millions of casualties, like the US in WW2. War is about objective, not about casualty.

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## One_Nation

Battlion25 said:


> Ridiculous narrative there is no charity in wars.. If you allow an enemy to stay they will settle forever. Look at British India for reference.
> 
> Nobody has ever occupied Afghanistan nor Colony era happened there neither because they made it hell for anyone who came in.. There was fighting everyday in Afghanistan. It was just under-reported for obvious reasons but the Taliban controlled 40% of afghanistan for like 15+ years in the 20 year war.. Until the otherside burned thru 20 trillion USD in the war of attrition.
> 
> Even for the US printing capability this was to much spend on an empty backward they had no intention of using that much money.. Afghan-US war is the most expensive war in history..
> 
> The Soviet union didn't collapse in Afghanistan out of fluke..
> 
> Ukraine is not Afghanistan they will not push out Russia and will likely settle for a ceasefire and release the eastern part to Russia.. Plus Russia ain't collasping in Ukraine they simply are not Afghans.
> 
> They don't have the consistency.. 1st year, 2nd year , 4th year etc etc that is not when fatigue sets in but in the 5th to 8th year the enemy will start to lose resolve you just keep up the consistency. The Afghans know how to break an Enemies resolve slowly. They all have limits.


Mongols did occupy Afghanistan for a significant amount of time and did terrible things there.


----------



## 925boy

jhungary said:


> Again, if Taliban is really that "Fierce" fighter we all fear, tell me *which COP and FOB *they overrun? So we can be fear of them?? LolC


COB and FOB has to do with battles, tactical perspective, THEY ARE NOT THE WAR ITSELF. yes US won every battle against taliban, but it still lost the war. you can say whatever you want, that doesn't change or negate the fact US lost the Afghanistan war.



alimobin memon said:


> Nothing is unlimited. Who says its difficult to understand. but this is Russia you are talking about they stockpile last for 2 3 years. its not always the case of 60K per day. its in peak conditions. these figures are for peak point. if they are short they just buy from friendlies simple.


these guys opposing you are TALKING PROPAGANDA- have you forgotten its these same NATO bich countries that were buying TONs of small arms and weapons from Croatia, bulgaria etc to fund their asymmetrical militant project named ISIS?? Why didnt the US army just go fight htose enemies itself directly instead of funding ISIS Indirectly via UAE that bought toyota cruisers for ISIS via TOyota production line in Japan??

Anybody can buy weaposn from anybody, these damn hypocrites want us to forget that Ukraine today is fighting almost 100% with foreign weapons it cant buy or make. THey always create a diferent standard for every country that's different from US, a sign of their low analytical ability and brainwashing.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571860408654348290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571860411204472836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571860413398253570

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571854408689795073

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

Germany sends 4x more king of artillery to Ukraine.

Pz 2000

Immediate delivery

Ukraine needs them urgently for ongoing offensive.















Bundeswehr gibt vier weitere Panzerhaubitzen 2000 an Ukraine ab


Die Bundeswehr will der Ukraine vier weitere Artilleriegeschütze des Typs Panzerhaubitze 2000 zur Verfügung stellen. Es handle sich um gebrauchte und wieder instand gesetzte Hochleistungs-Geschütze des Heeres, die nun "trotz der angespannten eigenen Materiallage" an die Ukraine abgegeben werden...



de.nachrichten.yahoo.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571873857560055808


----------



## khansaheeb

merzifonlu said:


> I totally agree with you. Why NATO left Afghanistan is another matter entirely. It should be discussed in another topic.
> 
> By the way, I think Trump's smartest decision was to leave Afghanistan. You cannot force people to change. If they want to live in the Middle Ages, let them do so. As long as they don't interfere with others.


It wasn't Trump's decision it was the US military decision which was endorsed by the politicians who realised they had been defeated. Of course they will try and put a spin on it but the facts tell the true story, just like the Russians are trying to put a spin on the facts in Ukraine.


----------



## Viet

The new soldiers for special mil ops in Ukraine:

ex inmates of a prison in Siberia
Money and freedom should they still alive and survive after 6 months.

Putin’s money coffer seems running low. Instead of $5,000 per month new soldiers receive $2,500 per month. 50 percent less.






Bild vergrößern
Häftlinge in einem sibirischen Gefängnis: Amnestie nach einem halben Jahr an der Front
Foto: Ilya Naymushin / Sputnik / IMAGO

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## merzifonlu

gambit said:


> And who is going to enforce that? You?


Why are you asking me this? You should ask Ex. POTUS Trump. There is one thing he trusts, which is that the US withdrew its troops from Afghanistan.


----------



## Primus

Viet said:


> The new soldiers for special mil ops in Ukraine:
> 
> ex inmates of a prison in Siberia
> Money and freedom should they still alive and survive after 6 months.
> 
> Putin’s money coffer seems running low. Instead of $5,000 per month new soldiers receive $2,500 per month. 50 percent less.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Häftlinge in einem sibirischen Gefängnis: Amnestie nach einem halben Jahr an der Front
> Foto: Ilya Naymushin / Sputnik / IMAGO


Hiring prisoners is a great way to allow for war crimes and what not.


----------



## merzifonlu

Primus said:


> Hiring prisoners is a great way to allow for war crimes and what not.


Unfortunately. If they had already waged an ethical war, they would have declared a general mobilization. They themselves are aware of what the hell they are doing.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> I dont doubt US strength, its unparalleled. There are many countries US can defeat. Russia, china, all of EU. It can however not defeat Taliban or prevent them from ruling Afghanistan. This it seems will take some time to sink in and be accepted by many Americans. And its This lack of understanding and insight which led to the US defeat in Afghanistan.
> 
> Yes Taliban lost more soldiers, but their flag flies over Kabul. By any measure they won the war.
> 
> You lost, accept it, move on and learn from it. or dont. make no difference to me. Do it again but at your own peril.
> 
> US won in Afghanistan the same way russia will win in Ukraine. It will withdraw and declare total victory and all objectives achieved.
> 
> US won in Afghanistan the same way Japan won Ww2. you see Japan just got tired of fighting and there was no more domestic support for the war, particularly in Nagasaki, and a small group of Japanese leaders decided its better to end the war for their own political future.


The Taliban fails at governing Afghanistan right now. They do not need any help making a pigs breakfast of the country. They would resign if they were not so clueless.


----------



## The SC

Interesting..Non-biased analysis of the SMO and what to come..

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571882448434204676

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571860408654348290
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571860411204472836
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571860413398253570


So how much was this an intelligence failure on russian capabilities, and how much was actually known…but the military industrial complex needed a big scary “bear” for funding?



The SC said:


> Interesting..Non-biased analysis of the SMO and what to come..


Can you stop adding “non biased” to a clearly biased speaker?

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571859467439931393

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia bombs another Ukrainian nuclear power plant








Viet said:


> Germany sends 4x more king of artillery to Ukraine.
> 
> Pz 2000
> 
> Immediate delivery
> 
> Ukraine needs them urgently for ongoing offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bundeswehr gibt vier weitere Panzerhaubitzen 2000 an Ukraine ab
> 
> 
> Die Bundeswehr will der Ukraine vier weitere Artilleriegeschütze des Typs Panzerhaubitze 2000 zur Verfügung stellen. Es handle sich um gebrauchte und wieder instand gesetzte Hochleistungs-Geschütze des Heeres, die nun "trotz der angespannten eigenen Materiallage" an die Ukraine abgegeben werden...
> 
> 
> 
> de.nachrichten.yahoo.com



These don't last very long. Either they get Krasnopoled or they break down.

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## alimobin memon

alimobin memon said:


> Nothing is unlimited. Who says its difficult to understand. but this is russia you are talking about they stockpile last for 2 3 years.





Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia bombs another Ukrainian nuclear power plant
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These don't last very long. Either they get Krasnopoled or they break down.


True many members wont admit. But pzh 2000 failed turkey and ukraine in early weeks of august. They are heavy to tow for repairs.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hind shturmovik in Luhansk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571885886706417665


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571894313788887046


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571893765413146626

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571895436243521536


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571874249605877760

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571895436243521536


Russians will feel that in the winter


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571896698406064130


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571898496931827719

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571898498819428352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571898502451712000

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## Viet

The US signals the goahead for Germany to deliver Leopard 2 to Ukraine.

The Nato panzer armies in Europe have combined 2,000 Leopard 2 tanks.

Ukraine can form a tank division if just getting 10 percent of those tanks.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571847835221659649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571818085480370176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571893103052693508

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571830325269139458

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571901633520353282


----------



## MeFishToo

Source: War in Ukraine
The russian defensive lines east of Oskil river are basically broken. For some unknown reason Ukraine doesnt push forward. Same goes for russian defensive lines north of Donets. Capable russian forces pulled to southern Ukraine. 
Small russian gains in the east where Wagner operates. They do what there paid to do, eventhough it doesnt make sense doing offensive operations while the northern front is breaking.
Airborne and Naval infantry concentrated in Kherson and Zaporizhy front. Russia seemingly ready to give up Donbass.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Source: War in Ukraine
> The russian defensive lines east of Oskil river are basically broken. For some unknown reason Ukraine doesnt push forward. Same goes for russian defensive lines north of Donets. Capable russian forces pulled to southern Ukraine.
> Small russian gains in the east where Wagner operates. They do what there paid to do, eventhough it doesnt make sense doing offensive operations while the northern front is breaking.
> Airborne and Naval infantry concentrated in Kherson and Zaporizhy front. Russia seemingly ready to give up Donbass.
> View attachment 880908
> View attachment 880909
> View attachment 880910
> View attachment 880911



Ukraine lacks the man power for Luhansk offensive. They need 100 to 200 million people for that. With only 35 million people at their disposal, it is a mountain to climb against 5 million rebels and 147 million Russians. They can only blame themselves for having a measly birth rate of 1 child per woman.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

925boy said:


> COB and FOB has to do with battles, tactical perspective, THEY ARE NOT THE WAR ITSELF. yes US won every battle against taliban, but it still lost the war. you can say whatever you want, that doesn't change or negate the fact US lost the Afghanistan war.
> 
> 
> these guys opposing you are TALKING PROPAGANDA- have you forgotten its these same NATO bich countries that were buying TONs of small arms and weapons from Croatia, bulgaria etc to fund their asymmetrical militant project named ISIS?? Why didnt the US army just go fight htose enemies itself directly instead of funding ISIS Indirectly via UAE that bought toyota cruisers for ISIS via TOyota production line in Japan??
> 
> Anybody can buy weaposn from anybody, these damn hypocrites want us to forget that Ukraine today is fighting almost 100% with foreign weapons it cant buy or make. THey always create a diferent standard for every country that's different from US, a sign of their low analytical ability and brainwashing.


Umm, we are talking about in a context of Combat and Battles. That's what "Fear" come from, otherwise are you suggesting that US troop fear the Taliban from hiding in a cave 24/7 for 20 years??

And again, what is "Lost" the afghan war. Tell me what did US loses both Tactically and Strategically? In fact, tell me what stopped the American to reinvade Afghanistan?? Its like saying North Korea had won the Korean War because North Korea is still there even tho US has stationed troop in the South for more than 70 years........



Hack-Hook said:


> what to tell , they are different , never operated outside Afghanistan and actually right now are at war with ISIS


So you cannot tell me what they are if they are not considered as an organisation. 

And I think the Yemeni and Pakistani will beg to differ the Taliban never operated in their country, they have a press office in Qatar for Frying out loud. And the Pakistani has been fighting the offshoot of Taliban since 1996 in Pakistan.

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## jhungary

The SC said:


> Interesting..Non-biased analysis of the SMO and what to come..


Calling Scott Ritter non-biased is like calling Tucker Carlson everyday American voice........

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571624877714710528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571904312300937218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571903041967882242

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Source: War in Ukraine
> The russian defensive lines east of Oskil river are basically broken. For some unknown reason Ukraine doesnt push forward. Same goes for russian defensive lines north of Donets. Capable russian forces pulled to southern Ukraine.
> Small russian gains in the east where Wagner operates. They do what there paid to do, eventhough it doesnt make sense doing offensive operations while the northern front is breaking.
> Airborne and Naval infantry concentrated in Kherson and Zaporizhy front. Russia seemingly ready to give up Donbass.
> View attachment 880908
> View attachment 880909
> View attachment 880910
> View attachment 880911


Been saying this for 2 days, Russia did not seem to even try to reinforce Svatove to Sieverodonetsk, infact, they have done the opposit, source say they have vacated Kremina and move those troop south... 


Ukraine did not move mostly because they are consolidating their beach head East of Oksil.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

captured ex Polish T-72







knocked out BTR-4






knocked out BMP-1

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571901949993447425

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566075840722604033
Russian losses now exceed 6,200

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571884276060426240

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571884276060426240



It looks like Ukrainian defenders in Bakhmut are under a lot of stress.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571873873821569024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571856246763831296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571212309984321537


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

May be Putin is waiting for the winter , and then he blows up all of ukraine electricity stations and gas pipeline , then they all freeze to death or by starvation


----------



## MeFishToo

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> May be Putin is waiting for the winter , and then he blows up all of ukraine electricity stations and gas pipeline , then they all freeze to death or by starvation


Hell of a way to “liberate” the ukrainians from the “nazi regime”..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571916416059834368

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571916416059834368


The Russians are finished. Military, economy. In a year they will be bankrupt. This winter will be hard but in a year next winter Europe will be independent from oil and gas imports from Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Hell of a way to “liberate” the ukrainians from the “nazi regime”..



It's not as barbaric as Yanks nuking Japanese civilians in WW2.

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## Ali_Baba

Russia no longer has full control of Luhansk as Ukraine recaptures village​









Russia no longer has full control of Luhansk region after Ukraine captures village


Small but symbolic victory in suburb of Lysychansk undermines one of Putin’s key war aims




www.theguardian.com





>> every single Russian strategic objective is being rolled back by Ukraine.. Russia has lost strategically in all her objectives - now all that is left - is making sure the tactical objectives are also rolled back.

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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> May be Putin is waiting for the winter , and then he blows up all of ukraine electricity stations and gas pipeline , then they all freeze to death or by starvation


Well, that's pointless. 

First of all, people survive winter BEFORE Electricity. Otherwise there would not be Russian or Ukrainian to begin with, they would all be frozen to death in 1400 or whatever when there is no electric heater

Second of all, power station is easy to fix, 2 days after Russia attack Kharkiv Powerplant, they had restored the electricity to it, you can keep bombing it and that would just be a waste of missile. 

Finally, Ukraine can swtich electricity grid, the area closer to Poland or Romania can use their grid, and the rest of Ukraine can still get power from the remaining 3 Nuclear Power Plants, and you have to be stupid to bomb a NPP..

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571884276060426240


You just have to keep zooming in on the map to find those pockets huh?

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## MeFishToo

ZeGerman said:


> You just have to keep zooming in on the map to find those pockets huh?


This is Veselaia Dolina. Hard to believe the area around it contains 3 brigades of whom one was defending Kharkiv a few weeks ago and another is south of Donetsk.

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## Reashot Xigwin

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571860408654348290
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571860411204472836
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571860413398253570


Imagine going from a superpower to a trash not even worth being taken seriously.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russia just took another L in the diplomatic front

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571192371072704514

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571914597061337090

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## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571946435700031488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571946764428800002

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571947598621048832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571949385080254465

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571948326362423296

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571965051216580609

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571968865474576384
Reports that Ukrainian forces are 5km from Lyschansk city center

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571971427523502081

Russia has gotten itself into a clusterf***

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571886850251587584

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571956746503221248

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## aviator_fan

Putin is fighting this war as if he was a deep planted CIA/MI6 agent and not a KGB agent. Why would he trap Russia like this?

Back when Saddam's self inflicted destruction of Iraq through its actions in the invasion of Kuwait and by not withdrawing in 1991, the gossip conspiracy theory was that he must have been a CIA agent (like King Hussein in Jordan) to have caused this much destruction. What idiot would do that and weaken himself against Israel.

Thats how I feel Putin is conducting himself


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571945227719417862

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571939207089688581

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## aviator_fan

Viet said:


> The Russians are finished. Military, economy. In a year they will be bankrupt. This winter will be hard but in a year next winter Europe will be independent from oil and gas imports from Russia.


Its as if Putin was a deep CIA operative: only he would sabotage his own country's global prestige like this. What sane person would have done this.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It's not as barbaric as Yanks nuking Japanese civilians in WW2.


All civilized nations today have their barbaric phases. Japan in China. Belgium in Congo and pretty much take any colonial power.

Saying Russia is doing violent acts is not the same as saying that the other powers have been such angels



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine lacks the man power for Luhansk offensive. They need 100 to 200 million people for that. With only 35 million people at their disposal, it is a mountain to climb against 5 million rebels and 147 million Russians. They can only blame themselves for having a measly birth rate of 1 child per woman.


Shoot the Russians too while you are at it since everybody's measly rate well below 2.1 (you need 2.1 to maintain the population). And while at it, blame the entire Chinese population whose rate is close to China's.

Your logic on population (like your 'forever war') makes no sense: Even if they produced like rabbits for 100 years, they would not come close to being larger than Russia. But they did what Israelis did: mobilize every male and make sure every male is motivated for survival.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> As for whether or not Taliban is capable fighting, name me one FOB, COB that was overrun by Taliban. I am not even asking you to name regional command base or big base like KAF or Bastion. Small FOB and COB only, name me some of them being overrun by Taliban?


that makes losing the Afghan war even more humiliating, You own every battle and lost the war. Its quite unique in the history of warfare. 

Afghanistan was the first non white country to free itself from the British empire. So they've done this before. 3 empires withdrew in humiliation. this is no small feat. 

And America got defeated and was forced to leave, and not only do Americans not know how they got defeated, many dont even realise they got defeated.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Shoot the Russians too while you are at it since everybody's measly rate well below 2.1 (you need 2.1 to maintain the population).



Russians have the advantage of having Muslims which Ukrainians do not have. Chechens and Tatars have pretty high birth rate. In fact, Russian birth rate has stabilized somewhat recently after Putin restored Soviet era reward for women who have 10 kids.









Vladimir Putin Offers Money To Women To Have 10 Kids To Repopulate Russia


Russian President Vladimir Putin restored an award first introduced by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin that's designed to encourage women to have more children, The Moscow Times reported.




www.outlookindia.com

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## gambit

thetutle said:


> that makes losing the Afghan war even more humiliating, You own every battle and lost the war. Its quite unique in the history of warfare.


Not really. To people like you, we 'lose' no matter what. Even if all we did was go in to avenge 9-11, removed the Taliban from power, and leave, we would have been criticized as 'lose' Afghanistan because we did not stay and prevent the Taliban from returning to power.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571965051216580609


The tyrant's throne has started to creak

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> that makes losing the Afghan war even more humiliating, You own every battle and lost the war. Its quite unique in the history of warfare.
> 
> Afghanistan was the first non white country to free itself from the British empire. So they've done this before. 3 empires withdrew in humiliation. this is no small feat.
> 
> And America got defeated and was forced to leave, and not only do Americans not know how they got defeated, many dont even realise they got defeated.


Again, going back to my first post. 

Winning and Losing is a complex concept, if you think US "Loses" in Afghanistan, that's your opinion, in my opinion, if that's your conclusion, that mean you know nothing about warfare. That's my opinion. 

AS for the other stuff, that's already said in my previous post, I am not going to rinse and repeat.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> But they did what Israelis did: mobilize every male and make sure every male is motivated for survival.



Ukrainians are not religious. You need a deeply religious population to be able to mobilize. Otherwise they'll simply flee and emigrate.

For example, in Syria they had trouble mobilizing due to a heathen population brought up by Arab nationalism upbringing.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571932924345257986

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571943884175052801

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## patero

aviator_fan said:


> All civilized nations today have their barbaric phases. Japan in China. Belgium in Congo and pretty much take any colonial power.
> 
> Saying Russia is doing violent acts is not the same as saying that the other powers have been such angels


All very true, but there is something that puts the Russians in a category of their own when it comes to brutality. And their barbaric phase is more of a persistant state.

Over its 69 years in power, the Soviet/Russian regime murdered more of its own citizens than any other in history. Low end estimates are 40 million, upper end 100 million citizens unaccounted for. Mao may have starved more to death but more through negligence than outright intent.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571070558552592384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524710340545900546


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians have the advantage of having Muslims which Ukrainians do not have. Chechens and Tatars have pretty high birth rate. In fact, Russian birth rate has stabilized somewhat recently after Putin restored Soviet era reward for women who have 10 kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin Offers Money To Women To Have 10 Kids To Repopulate Russia
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin restored an award first introduced by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin that's designed to encourage women to have more children, The Moscow Times reported.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.outlookindia.com


And then half a million Russians left. So stop reading Putin propoganda about reward for 10 kids. He gave the reward but Russian mothers are not going to listen to him any more than Chinese mothers listened to Xi and co. Park this argument away and type some other useless thing like a 'forever war' concept will you.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukrainians are not religious. You need a deeply religious population to be able to mobilize. Otherwise they'll simply flee and emigrate.
> 
> For example, in Syria they had trouble mobilizing due to a heathen population brought up by Arab nationalism upbringing.


More BS: have you been to Syria to know the heathen population or just some random crap you read?

All Ukrainian men stayed. You don't need religion to unite. Religion helps, but not having it doesn't doom you. Yemenis are fighting Saudi and UAE: I can tell you its not their religion but other characteristics (including tolerating death) that let them fight



thetutle said:


> that makes losing the Afghan war even more humiliating, You own every battle and lost the war. Its quite unique in the history of warfare.
> 
> Afghanistan was the first non white country to free itself from the British empire. So they've done this before. 3 empires withdrew in humiliation. this is no small feat.
> 
> And America got defeated and was forced to leave, and not only do Americans not know how they got defeated, many dont even realise they got defeated.


Are you not able to read the title of this thread or you don't know the concept of a thread around a topic. Take this elsewhere. Call it 'America's defeat in all the wars' if you like

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia no longer has full control of Luhansk as Ukraine recaptures village​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia no longer has full control of Luhansk region after Ukraine captures village
> 
> 
> Small but symbolic victory in suburb of Lysychansk undermines one of Putin’s key war aims
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> every single Russian strategic objective is being rolled back by Ukraine.. Russia has lost strategically in all her objectives - now all that is left - is making sure the tactical objectives are also rolled back.



Russia never had full control of Luhansk. Ukraine kept control of 1 village or maybe 2 villages near Donetsk border.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571916416059834368



This guy is so old the war still goes on after he dies of old age.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572021395005276160


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572021395005276160



No steel means auto industry collapses. Steel industry heating requires natural gas for heating.


----------



## DF41

Xian Y20 already flying into Moscow

😆😆😆🥁🥁🥁

Delivery of Firedragons (range 300KM CEP 1m) 









China tests precision strike capability of its advanced rocket launch system at high altitude


Chinese experts believe that the range of the rocket launch system was extended to 500 km, which would mean that the rocket launch system could hit any Indian military base along the Line of




www.news9live.com





and Chinese suicide drones by the hundreds of boxes🤔🤔🤔😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🏔️🐲 Get thousands and tens of thousands of Chinese FH-901 suicide drones.
Get a hundred boxes to start with






FH-901 carry 10 times the bang of Switchblade, much longer loitering time and can carry out swarming attacks.

That will make Murican Switchblade look like a switchblade brought to a machine gun fight.

Zelensky and rest of NATO gangsters will crawl 3 times around Red Square and beg forgiveness
Especially as after de nazification of Ukraine, Russia move to denazified NATO as well.






China unveils its own 'switchblade' suicide drone
China has launched its own switchblade cruise missile, what's so magical about the Feihong-901? [Time and frequency of strong national defense] Welcome to subscribe to leave a message. Powerful defense time and frequency, bringing you the latest, most unique and in-depth news information, committed to creating the hottest and most cutting-edge military news! Overview of global military information, inventory of the latest weapons at home and abroad China launches its own "Switchblade" suicide drone, what's so magical about the Feihong 901? == 

🥁🥁🥁

Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments-part-2.746450/post-13969268

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> that makes losing the Afghan war even more humiliating, You own every battle and lost the war. Its quite unique in the history of warfare.
> 
> Afghanistan was the first non white country to free itself from the British empire. So they've done this before. 3 empires withdrew in humiliation. this is no small feat.
> 
> And America got defeated and was forced to leave, and not only do Americans not know how they got defeated, many dont even realise they got defeated.


People that does not realize they are defeated, are really not defeated.
A guy that gets tired of punching his abnoxious kid brother and leaves is not defeated. 
The war is simply not over, and the US can take out any target in Afghanistan that they become aware of, and there is nothing the Taliban can do about it.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

DF41 said:


> Xian Y20 already flying into Moscow
> 
> 😆😆😆🥁🥁🥁
> 
> Delivery of Firedragons (range 300KM CEP 1m)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China tests precision strike capability of its advanced rocket launch system at high altitude
> 
> 
> Chinese experts believe that the range of the rocket launch system was extended to 500 km, which would mean that the rocket launch system could hit any Indian military base along the Line of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.news9live.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and Chinese suicide drones by the hundreds of boxes🤔🤔🤔😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🏔️🐲 Get thousands and tens of thousands of Chinese FH-901 suicide drones.
> Get a hundred boxes to start with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FH-901 carry 10 times the bang of Switchblade, much longer loitering time and can carry out swarming attacks.
> 
> That will make Murican Switchblade look like a switchblade brought to a machine gun fight.
> 
> Zelensky and rest of NATO gangsters will crawl 3 times around Red Square and beg forgiveness
> Especially as after de nazification of Ukraine, Russia move to denazified NATO as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China unveils its own 'switchblade' suicide drone
> China has launched its own switchblade cruise missile, what's so magical about the Feihong-901? [Time and frequency of strong national defense] Welcome to subscribe to leave a message. Powerful defense time and frequency, bringing you the latest, most unique and in-depth news information, committed to creating the hottest and most cutting-edge military news! Overview of global military information, inventory of the latest weapons at home and abroad China launches its own "Switchblade" suicide drone, what's so magical about the Feihong 901? ==
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁
> 
> Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments-part-2.746450/post-13969268



China's industrial power is key to the war. In WW2 America's industrial might crushed Japan. Yamamoto was particularly scared of America's industrial might.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572076796518207488


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572081582311198723

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571932924345257986


Media sells fear

Companies exaggerate these claims as a way to pressure politics in aid packages. 

Before and during shutdown corona pandemics we constantly got reports on how so many businesses would fail…only to get an incredibly low bankrupcy rate instead. Because they had reserves, exaggerrated, and government aid.








Business registration and bankruptcy index EU 2021 | Statista


In the fourth quarter of 2021, the bankruptcy declaration index in the European Union stood at 73.6, compared with the business registration index which was 117.7.




www.statista.com





Same is happening now.

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## Viet

Not bad

Some technologically and pricey pieces from Russia army when Ukraine army captured Charkiw.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569707532687478784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571531776178245635

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571216692612669441

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Not bad
> 
> Some technologically and pricey pieces from Russia army when Ukraine army captured Charkiw.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569707532687478784
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571531776178245635
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571216692612669441



What good is T-90M when you cannot repair its engine?


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> What good is T-90M when you cannot repair its engine?


How do you know the engine not working? Anyway even if engine broken, the west intelligence is more interested of how the tank is made, what new technology is implemented, what protection, then figure out how to defeat the tank in battle.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> How do you know the engine not working? Anyway even if engine broken the west is more interested of how the tank is made, what new technology is implemented, then figure out how to defeat the tank in battle.



The engine breaks down after a couple of weeks of usage. If you cannot repair it, it's not much use. You also don't have the AT-11 Sniper missiles for it. Without it, it does not have long range engagement capability.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The engine breaks down after a couple of weeks of usage. If you cannot repair it, it's not much use. You also don't have the AT-11 Sniper missiles for it. Without it, it does not have long range engagement capability.


If Russian tanks break down after use then it’s the best news of day for Ukraine.
They can sit down and relax. Russian tank destroys itself.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> If Russian tanks break down after use then the good news of day for Ukraine.
> They can sit down and relax. Russian tank destroys itself.



Russians can service that engine. Ukrainians cannot.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians can service that engine. Ukrainians cannot.


Nonsense
Ukraine was the industrial heart of USSR.
Steel, coal, machinery, ship building, nuclear power, grains, foods.

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> China not fighting a multipolar world, please spare people of your shit. you fight for cheap gas. In addition the war in Ukraine fits your interests because it weakens the West.


We fight for what is in our interest and that's is for a multipolar world. Cheap gas? We are paying more but much less than natards but if it helps preserve global balance its a price worth paying. The West cannot continue to destabilise the world and subsidized their lifestyle.

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> We fight for what is in our interest and that's is for a multipolar world. Cheap gas? We are paying more but much less than natards but if it helps preserve global balance its a price worth paying. The West cannot continue to destabilise the world and subsidized their lifestyle.


You fight for your interests. Other countries fight for their interests. You don’t fight for multipolar or multiple universe. Nobody asks you to act as the pope. Please don’t steal or rape other people that’s all.


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> You fight for your interests. Other countries fight for their interests. You don’t fight for multipolar or multiple universe. Nobody asks you to act as the pope. Please don’t steal or rape other people that’s all.



Exactly, our interest is actually better for the world. A multipolar world is better than a hegemonic America right? But we'll you will always cheer for America even if they gassed your people go death. The brainwashing is too strong. Lol

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## jhungary

Russia needs to stop losing ship to an enemy without a Navy.......





__





Ukraine Sinks Russian Barge 'Loaded With Weapons, Equipment': Military






www.msn.com

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## alimobin memon

jhungary said:


> Russia needs to stop losing ship to an enemy without a Navy.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Sinks Russian Barge 'Loaded With Weapons, Equipment': Military
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com


Although war is far from over. These kind of stupid losses are humiliating for Russia.


----------



## mulj

alimobin memon said:


> Although war is far from over. These kind of stupid losses are humiliating for Russia.


it was barge over river Dnepar where UAF has full fire control over it, this kind of losses will only increase if russians are resolved to keep supplying troops on west bank of river.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians can service that engine. Ukrainians cannot.



ISIS literally had an entire service facility for their armored vehicles. If they can do it the Ukrainians can do it better.








Armour In The Islamic State - The Story Of ’The Workshop’







www.oryxspioenkop.com





FYI soviet armors are simple to repair for a reason.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571965179314995200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572099598314881024

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## jhungary

CONFIRMED :: Ukrainian retaken Bilogorivka (With photo of Ukrainian flag flew over the town)









The armed forces took control of Bilogorivka in the Luhansk region


This was announced by the head of the military administration of the Luhansk region Serhii Gaidai. He said that "Belogorivka" is going out of the control



kucnews.com





Which mean the Russian Siversky Offensive is dead. Also, Ukrainian is heading to Lysychansk next. (It's the next town East.)

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## thetutle

gambit said:


> Looks like Ukrainians are fiercer fighters than the Taliban. The Ukrainians are actually planning and executing combat operations while the Taliban hid in caves and among civilians waiting for Americans to get tired of being away from home.


Well if Taliban had HIMARS and Drones and AAA like Ukraine does, I wonder if US would do much better than russia in Ukraine. For what Taliban had, I the you'd agree they did a terrific job in kicking out not only US but all of NATO from Afghanistan. And not only that but then defeating the Afghan army armed with terrific weapons.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> For the Ukrainian, their motivation is not to see Russian in their land for any second they do not need to.
> 
> For the Taliban, their motivation is to sit in the cave for 20 years and hope that one day the occupier would elect a selfish president and got bored and go home.


No they had the same motivation, just that Taliban had less resources and worse weapons. And Taliban did very well for the resources they had. It was a constant 20 year insurgency, its alsmot unparalleled. Your opinions highlight just how blinded the US military and political leadership was during those 20 years. In the end individual military units just resorted to killing civilians and anyone suspected of being Taliban. Bringing the whole country against them pretty much. 

We can measure the taliban with the ukrnaian resistance partisans only once ukraine is totally occupied. then its measuring Apples vs Appels.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572098429693853697


jhungary said:


> CONFIRMED :: Ukrainian retaken Bilogorivka (With photo of Ukrainian flag flew over the town)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The armed forces took control of Bilogorivka in the Luhansk region
> 
> 
> This was announced by the head of the military administration of the Luhansk region Serhii Gaidai. He said that "Belogorivka" is going out of the control
> 
> 
> 
> kucnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which mean the Russian Siversky Offensive is dead. Also, Ukrainian is heading to Lysychansk next. (It's the next town East.)



Significant but symbolic,Ukrainian forces regained a foothold in Luhansk oblast.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572122995665129472


----------



## thetutle

Battlion25 said:


> Nobody has ever occupied Afghanistan nor Colony era happened there neither because they made it hell for anyone who came in.. There was fighting everyday in Afghanistan. It was just under-reported for obvious reasons but the Taliban controlled 40% of afghanistan for like 15+ years in the 20 year war.. Until the otherside burned thru 20 trillion USD in the war of attrition.


Its exactly right. I know Americans, Bosnians and Australians that were in Afghanistan and let me tell you some of the stories. Many Bosnians chose to be unemployed in Bosnia than go to Afghanistan for $50,000 USD per year. US had very low military losses only because they used civilian contractors who would be killed regularly. some of the truck drivers would be locked inside their trucks while they drive through Afghanistan. But nobody likes to admit defeat least of all Americans, they are a very proud people. So the truth takes time to accept.

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## thetutle

ZeGerman said:


> America went in to oust taliban and AQ.
> Mission sucess there.


So according to you the taliban is no longer in control of Afghanistan? Better check that one. 


ZeGerman said:


> You can hardly boast that Coalition military was defeated and “run off” when they never lost 1 battle, and coalition yearly casualties were 30 a year at the end.


This makes their defeat even more humiliating. Imagine Germany invaded France and then after 1 year of fighting the French resistance it just packed up and went back to Germany. And then celebrated their victory over france. Ridiculous right? And said, "we weren't driven out, we just got sick and tired that French didn't accept German rule and we left". Its bizarre and makes you wonder why they went In in the first place. 


ZeGerman said:


> But lets not dream up this myth of the taliban “defeating the USA military and having them run from afghanistan”. Its Bullshit.


So the US won in Afghanistan and gave it right back to the Taliban. So the US supports the Taliban? US was defeated militarily, because US military could not achieve its objectives in Afghanistan. Military failed. Thats a military loss. Mobilising the military to fight the global war on terror is a bit like mobilising the military to fight climate change. Or the War on drugs. Military will suffer a decisive defeat.



Viet said:


> Rediculous russian propaganda shit
> 
> Yes I can confirm we still have electricity in Germany. the natural gas price makes me happy: downward trend continues. $178 per MWh. Down from the peak $354. the price will touch $170 this week. The market expects $155 for winter 2023.


More western propaganda. You dont have electricity when using your PC, you have commandeered squirrels and hamsters on hamster wheels to run around and generate electricity. Admit it.

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## thetutle

gambit said:


> So yes, by all means, assert that the US 'lost' to the Taliban. And see how many armies would believe you and take on the US military just on your say so.


Just because the US military filed to achieve the desired outcome, does not mean its not the most powerful military in the world. What is means it lost to the Taliban because it was not suited to that type of warfare. Taliban liberated their country from foreign invaders. they have done something very few can boast of. If any army fights a conventional war with US, they are toast. Taliban was never able to even do that, it didn't need to, it achieved its objectives without it.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Tell me what did US loses both Tactically and Strategically?


They lost Afghanistan. Pretty major loss I'd say. you can even bring yourself for admit it. pretty sad. Just say to yourself, every night, we we in control of Afghanistan, We are now not. We fought for it, we died for it and we lost it. You are not a more patriotic American if you live in a delusion. 


aviator_fan said:


> Putin is fighting this war as if he was a deep planted CIA/MI6 agent and not a KGB agent. Why would he trap Russia like this?
> 
> Back when Saddam's self inflicted destruction of Iraq through its actions in the invasion of Kuwait and by not withdrawing in 1991, the gossip conspiracy theory was that he must have been a CIA agent (like King Hussein in Jordan) to have caused this much destruction. What idiot would do that and weaken himself against Israel.
> 
> Thats how I feel Putin is conducting himself


dictators and countries fall for their own delusions. Saddam did, Putin did, America did for a long time. Took some brave men to decide to cut their losses, Nixon in Vietnam, and trump in Afghaistan. The only president recently not beholden to the military industrial complex. 


gambit said:


> Not really. To people like you, we 'lose' no matter what. Even if all we did was go in to avenge 9-11, removed the Taliban from power, and leave, we would have been criticized as 'lose' Afghanistan because we did not stay and prevent the Taliban from returning to power.


to people like me? like normal objective people? ok. Well, no, if you avenged 9/11 by bombing some al qadea and some Taliban sheltering them, id say, yep, they avenged this. ok I would say, revenge mission successful. Then you would get hit again and you would avenge again. and over and over until some sort of peace with International terrorism was reached. But I would say, yes successful revenge mission. 

Sadly, and it is sad, because I would on balance choose to live in a prosperous western democracy before Taliban run country, your stated goals in Afghanistan were not reached. Because Taliban and its allies prevented you from reaching them. 

And now that Taliban has unwound your 20 year effort you think you've won. Seriously seriously deluded.

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## dbc

thetutle said:


> Its exactly right. I know Americans, Bosnians and Australians that were in Afghanistan and let me tell you some of the stories. Many Bosnians chose to be unemployed in Bosnia than go to Afghanistan for $50,000 USD per year. US had very low military losses only because they used civilian contractors who would be killed regularly. some of the truck drivers would be locked inside their trucks while they drive through Afghanistan. But nobody likes to admit defeat least of all Americans, they are a very proud people. So the truth takes time to accept.



nice story the US lost 1,822 contractors in Afghanistan in 20 years. Now can you please stop your Taliban off topic fantasies and return to Ukraine, Also the last thing a seasoned solider will do is lock themselves in a truck in hostile territory, they don't even wear a seat belt. The general preference is to abandon their vehicle and get as small as possible at the first sign of trouble. Finally, NATO forces in contact with the enemy never lost a fight in Afghanistan. They also never held territory, they went in cleared remote villages of Taliban infestation and returned to base - rinse repeat for two decades. After the first year of war the brave Taliban rarely massed to confront NATO troops preferring IED and suicide bombing while they dissolved into the country side or scurried over the border to Pakistan.

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## ZeGerman

thetutle said:


> So according to you the taliban is no longer in control of Afghanistan? Better check that one.


Nope. I am saying the initial combat goals were met. 

After that new goals were added. One being “nation building” and “winning hearts and minds” which are policing, propaganda, governmental and political fields.

That this failed…that the afghans were supporting or tolerating taliban despite 20 years occupation…is thus only partly a military shortfall. 



thetutle said:


> This makes their defeat even more humiliating. Imagine Germany invaded France and then after 1 year of fighting the French resistance it just packed up and went back to Germany. And then celebrated their victory over france. Ridiculous right? And said, "we weren't driven out, we just got sick and tired that French didn't accept German rule and we left". Its bizarre and makes you wonder why they went In in the first place.


False analogy. We are talking about 20-30 years. And nobody claims “victory”. 

Just that “defeated and run off the military” is a ridiculous statement considering that no battle was ever lost, the losses were in the dozens per year…and the taliban mostly avoided and simply bided their time. Nato also left an afghan army stronger on paper then ukraine. 
The failure here is not being able to motivate the regular afghan to oppose the taliban and fight for things like “my daughter can go to school”. 

We left the afghans with plenty of training and material…they just simply did not have the heart to oppose taliban.

That is a matter of education/offering alternatives/winning over public/nation building.
Not the usa being militarily defeated and run off. Even in the end the taliban did not dare to directly fight US troops. 

To learn from this mistake is to either never mind nation building a middle ages backwater….or go all in on cultural change. a china cultural re-education style, if you do not want to wait too long.


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## dbc

thetutle said:


> Sadly, and it is sad, because I would on balance choose to live in a prosperous western democracy before Taliban run country, your stated goals in Afghanistan were not reached. Because Taliban and its allies prevented you from reaching them.



well the US failed at nation building because Afghanistan isn't a nation - not to the people that live there. It was a fools errand to believe any amount of investment and time will suddenly make the Afghans want to see themselves as a nation and take charge of their own destiny. It took two decades for NATO to realize its a lost cause, the only way forward was to rule the country through application of brute force in perpetuity which the west was not prepared to do.

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## ZeGerman

Lets use another analogy. Boxing.

Afghanistan is like me fighting mike tyson. But instead of actually boxing, i hide out for days in the crowd till mike walks off cause his parking meter bill is getting too high.
I then run in, beat up the referee (ana) and start shouting:
I defeated mike tyson!! Did you see him run! What a humiliation! King of the ring baby!

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## RoadAmerica

khansaheeb said:


> It wasn't Trump's decision it was the US military decision which was endorsed by the politicians who realised they had been defeated. Of course they will try and put a spin on it but the facts tell the true story, just like the Russians are trying to put a spin on the facts in Ukraine.


Nope it was trump decision plain and simple, after all he’s the commander and chief genius



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571874249605877760


They’ll need that wine to cope

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572087951416336385

Listen to these Russian Nazis. They’ve completely lost touch with reality.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572090807376543744


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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> What good is T-90M when you cannot repair its engine?


Its pretty useful to western engineers, to see how it's made, what its weak points are. See the electronics.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Its pretty useful to western engineers, to see how it's made, what its weak points are. See the electronics.



Nothing that special about T-90M. It seems to be on par with the latest M1A2.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine's Luhansk region to hold Sept. 23-27 referendum on joining Russia


Russian-backed separatists in the Luhansk People's Republic (LPR) will hold a referendum on joining Russia between Sept. 23-27, the TASS news agency reported on Tuesday, citing the separatist deputy speaker of the region's parliament.




www.reuters.com


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## thetutle

dbc said:


> Also the last thing a seasoned solider will do is lock themselves in a truck in hostile territory, they don't even wear a seat belt. The general preference is to abandon their vehicle and get as small as possible at the first sign of trouble.


all the more shocking then the NATO decision to chain the contractors to their trucks. Disgraceful. 


dbc said:


> Finally, NATO forces in contact with the enemy never lost a fight in Afghanistan.


And still lost the war, thats even more humiliating. 


ZeGerman said:


> Just that “defeated and run off the military” is a ridiculous statement considering that no battle was ever lost, the losses were in the dozens per year


even more humiliating then to lose the war. 


ZeGerman said:


> The failure here is not being able to motivate the regular afghan to oppose the taliban and fight for things like “my daughter can go to school”.


like it will be hard to motivate the ukranians to fight other ukranians and the ukrnaian government. Russia doest get it and USA didnt get it for 20 years. Afghans rightly or wrongly wil not accept a western putter government like ukrnaians will never accept a russian puppet government. 


ZeGerman said:


> We left the afghans with plenty of training and material…they just simply did not have the heart to oppose taliban.


read above. 


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Nothing that special about T-90M. It seems to be on par with the latest M1A2.


We all knew this was likely the case.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> They lost Afghanistan. Pretty major loss I'd say. you can even bring yourself for admit it. pretty sad. Just say to yourself, every night, we we in control of Afghanistan, We are now not. We fought for it, we died for it and we lost it. You are not a more patriotic American if you live in a delusion.



Unless it's our objective to annex Afghanistan into our 51st state (No way, as that's the fate for Puerto Rico) we never "Had" Afghanistan. It's a sovereign nation. You cannot lose something you never had. Because we are not staying permanently or having them the same status like American Samoa or Guam, so we will have to leave Afghanistan at some point, be it 20 years or 100 years. 

If our objective is to invade and annex Afghanistan, then yes, we "Lost" Afghanistan. 

You seem to have problem digesting what or why we were there, we were there to dismantle AQ network in Afghanistan, and then hunt down OBL, and later on into a nation building mission, if you ask me, it is a mistake, we should have better thing to do than to build a nation and leave it at their own device, it only make sense if we are to annex it as part of US territories. But hey, top brass want what top brass want. 

On the other hand, leaving the country back with Taliban is probably a smart move, because we know for sure the moment we leave, the Chinese will smack money in front of Ghani face and he will be their "Yes" man, at least it will have no effect if you smack money on Taliban face.



khansaheeb said:


> It wasn't Trump's decision it was the US military decision which was endorsed by the politicians who realised they had been defeated. Of course they will try and put a spin on it but the facts tell the true story, just like the Russians are trying to put a spin on the facts in Ukraine.


It's was *SOLELY BECAUSE OF TRUMP*...... no one, not even SecDef want to sign Doha Agreement. 

Again, the military side of Operation were never defeated, so US military will not unilaterally pull out of Afghanistan, I mean, Taliban didn't even do a "Tet" during those 20 years, that's how incompetent Taliban was.

Military only pull out if there are serious and major defeat on the field, like the Kharkiv Offensive in Ukraine, that's why I ask you to name a COB or FOB that was being overrun by Taliban to be considered a pull out.

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Significant but symbolic,Ukrainian forces regained a foothold in Luhansk oblast.


It also killed off one of the Russian Offensive. 

They have been trying to push into Siversky since July, with Bilogorivka taken, they can flank the force in and around Soledar, I am expecting another rout any day now.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Unless it's our objective to annex Afghanistan into our 51st state (No way, as that's the fate for Puerto Rico) we never "Had" Afghanistan. It's a sovereign nation. You cannot lose something you never had. Because we are not staying permanently or having them the same status like American Samoa or Guam, so we will have to leave Afghanistan at some point, be it 20 years or 100 years.
> 
> If our objective is to invade and annex Afghanistan, then yes, we "Lost" Afghanistan.
> 
> You seem to have problem digesting what or why we were there, we were there to dismantle AQ network in Afghanistan, and then hunt down OBL, and later on into a nation building mission, if you ask me, it is a mistake, we should have better thing to do than to build a nation and leave it at their own device, it only make sense if we are to annex it as part of US territories. But hey, top brass want what top brass want.


Come on mate. NATO was there to also replace Taliban with a government that will not harbour terrorists. That was number 1 goal. 

Taliban now run Afghanistan. You lost.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Come on mate. NATO was there to also replace Taliban with a government that will not harbour terrorists. That was number 1 goal.
> 
> Taliban now run Afghanistan. You lost.


Again, it's a complex issue, as I said you have to physically lose something to have lost a war. I mean, what if Taliban did not control Afghanistan and Ghani still in charge but moved the country to China once we left? Does that mean we lost again? How about what if US work with Taliban and release the funding and prevent them from further harbor terrorist, does that mean we had won even Taliban is back?

I can tell you this, either one of these scenarios mean nothing to the US, because that's Afghanistan affair. Unless we want to annex Afghanistan and make it to our affair.

And why you are so keen on NATO lost anyway? Do you think life is really better under Taliban control?


----------



## jhungary

A senior defence official told CNN "US may send Tanks to Ukraine, but ATACMS are out" 









US may give Ukraine tanks in the future, senior US military official says


Ukrainian defenses continue to consolidate liberated territories in the eastern part of the country as tense fighting continues in the south, the Ukrainian military said Sunday. Follow live updates here.




edition.cnn.com


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> A senior defence official told CNN "US may send Tanks to Ukraine, but ATACMS are out"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US may give Ukraine tanks in the future, senior US military official says
> 
> 
> Ukrainian defenses continue to consolidate liberated territories in the eastern part of the country as tense fighting continues in the south, the Ukrainian military said Sunday. Follow live updates here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com



I think early version M1 or even M1A1 is possible. As for ATACMS. it doesn't have the range of Iskander and lacks accuracy considering it is early 90s missile which may cause too much civilian casualty.


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## dbc

thetutle said:


> And still lost the war, thats even more humiliating.



lost the war per your silly fantasy, if you expected the West to turn Afghanistan into another Japan or South Korea then the first question is obviously the desire of the population to step out of the tribal regressive mindset and embrace the future. When the vast majority of rural Afghans are happy stuck in the 17th century and don't even consider themselves Afghans. Forget the west, I'm not even sure God can achieve such a miracle.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571581224556318720

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572179581062332416

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> And why you are so keen on NATO lost anyway? Do you think life is really better under Taliban control?


This is about making US look bad. That is all there is to it. He knows 'winning' or 'losing' is a complex issue. It is not as if political reforms into the defeated country is new. Every defeated country has its political leadership or institutions modified in some ways or even abolished. The Romans are kinda famous on that front. So he is not ignorant of the historical facts or what you explained.

Here is the deal...

1. A fact is information without emotion.​2. An opinion is information with experience.​3. Ignorance is opinion without information.​4. Stupidity is opinion ignoring fact.​
I think we can safely put him, and those like him, into 3 and 4.



thetutle said:


> Well if Taliban had HIMARS and Drones and AAA like Ukraine does, I wonder if US would do much better than russia in Ukraine. For what Taliban had, I the you'd agree they did a terrific job in kicking out not only US but all of NATO from Afghanistan. And not only that but then defeating the Afghan army armed with terrific weapons.


Sure. All the Taliban have to do is export that argument *IF* any country is stupid enough to employ them as war consultants.

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## khansaheeb

RoadAmerica said:


> Nope it was trump decision plain and simple, after all he’s the commander and chief genius
> 
> 
> They’ll need that wine to cope


Trump is only a mouth piece of the Pentagon, Israel and the Republican party.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572209754289717249

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## khansaheeb

Ukraine war: Occupied areas call urgent vote to join Russia


As Ukraine's counter-offensive gathers pace, Russian-backed officials declare plans for an urgent vote.



www.bbc.com





Ukraine war: Occupied areas call urgent vote to join Russia​*By Paul Kirby*
BBC News



Published
38 minutes ago

Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war





IMAGE SOURCE,EPA-EFE/REX/SHUTTERSTOCK
Image caption,
It is hard to see how a vote can take place when much of the Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia regions remain under Ukraine's control
*Almost seven months after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, areas under Moscow's control have announced plans for urgent so-called referendums on joining Russia.*
Russia's invasion has stalled in recent months and Ukraine has recaptured swathes of territory in the north-east.
Now Russian-backed officials in the east and south say they want votes on annexation starting this week.
Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, after a vote widely condemned as a sham.
The international community has never recognised the annexation but it has long been clear that Russia intends to rubber-stamp its takeover of other occupied regions in the same way.
The deputy head of Russia's security council, Dmitry Medvedev, said early on Tuesday that holding votes in the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk - also known as Donbas - would correct "historical justice" and be irreversible: "After the amendments to the constitution of our state, no future leader of Russia, no official will be able to reverse these decisions."

Soon afterwards the two breakaway Russian-backed authorities in Donetsk and Luhansk said they would stage votes on 23-27 September. They were both recognised as independent by President Vladimir Putin three days before Russian troops invaded Ukraine from north, east and south.


Russian-installed officials in the southern region of Kherson said they would also hold a vote, and a similar declaration came from Russian-occupied areas of Zaporizhzhia.
For months, Russian-installed authorities have tried to organise self-styled referendums, but the continuing war has made holding them impractical. Ukraine's counter-offensives have made it harder still.
While most of Luhansk has been in Russian hands since July, on Monday, the Ukrainian leader in Luhansk announced that the army had recaptured the village of Bilohorivka.








Much of Donetsk remains under Ukrainian control, although Russia has seized the coastal strip along the Sea of Azov.
Although Russian forces quickly captured Kherson at the start of the war, Ukrainian forces have regained some territory and Russian-installed authorities have faced repeated attacks. Earlier attempts to hold a vote there were postponed.

Much of Zaporizhzhia is still under Ukrainian control, including the regional capital of the same name. Even though the 2014 vote in Crimea was widely rejected as illegal and boycotted by a large number of residents, Russia's military were in control of the peninsula.
Ukrainian forces are not far away from the city of Donetsk and on Monday the Russian-backed mayor accused them of shelling the city, killing at least 13 people.

Who is winning the war in Ukraine?
Sri Lankans freed from Russian brutality in Ukraine
In depth: Russia's war in Ukraine
Any attempt to further annex sovereign Ukrainian territory is bound to infuriate leaders in Kyiv and destroy any hope of a negotiated solution.
Ukrainian defence ministry adviser Oleksiy Koptyko suggested they were a "sign of hysteria" in Moscow. Respected Russian analyst Tatiana Stanovaya saw the latest move as an "unequivocal ultimatum" from Russia to Ukraine and the West, and that if they did not react appropriately Russia would fully mobilise its armed forces for war.
There have been growing calls from some quarters for full mobilisation of Russian forces. At present, Vladimir Putin has described the invasion as a "special military operation".
In a separate development, the lower house of Russia's parliament backed long sentences for crimes committed during military mobilisation or combat, including going absent without leave (AWOL), desertion and voluntary surrender.

In a sign that the Kremlin was preparing to back the so-called referendums, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that from the start of the operation Russia had wanted residents to have the decision: "The whole current situation confirms that they want to be masters of their fate."
The change in mood comes only hours after Turkey's president said the Russian leader was looking for a way out of the war. "He is actually showing me that he's willing to end this as soon as possible," he told US network PBS.



IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
President Erdogan, pictured with President Putin on Saturday, has tried to steer a middle path as an ally of both Russia and Ukraine
He also said 200 "hostages" would soon be exchanged between the two sides. He gave no further detail of who would be included in such a prisoner swap.
President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Monday night "the occupiers are clearly in a panic".


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572209754289717249


Crimea was attacked like repeatedly even after the sham referendum in 2014. 

There are absolutely pointless to do that. As ISW mentioned, if the referendum took place and Russia annexed those land, how are they going to kick the Ukrainian out of now "Annexed" territories. "Leave Donetsk or I will nuke you?" 

How about they make one for Kyiv in absentia? And then asked the current Ukrainian Government to vacate Kyiv? lol

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Crimea was attacked like repeatedly even after the sham referendum in 2014.
> 
> There are absolutely pointless to do that. As ISW mentioned, if the referendum took place and Russia annexed those land, how are they going to kick the Ukrainian out of now "Annexed" territories. "Leave Donetsk or I will nuke you?"
> 
> How about they make one for Kyiv in absentia? And then asked the current Ukrainian Government to vacate Kyiv? lol


I think that the annexation is meant as a paper justification for war mobilization. Just a trope for domestic audience. 

There are doubts if Russia can even provide the necessary logistical support to troops if a war mobilization is officially announced. No lend lease agreement in place now unlike the WW2 days. Maybe China will help its junior partner with helmets and such

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> I mean, what if Taliban did not control Afghanistan and Ghani still in charge but moved the country to China once we left? Does that mean we lost again?


No that means you won. your puppet run the show. 


jhungary said:


> How about what if US work with Taliban and release the funding and prevent them from further harbor terrorist, does that mean we had won even Taliban is back?


this means you lost becasue they are back in power and you failed to remove them, 


jhungary said:


> And why you are so keen on NATO lost anyway? Do you think life is really better under Taliban control?


I'm keen on it because it's the truth. I do not think life is better under Taliban.


----------



## Viet

Gazprom stops delivering gas to China. The company says week long maintenance on “power of Siberia” pipeline. The same reason Gazprom said when stopping gas delivery to Europe.

What’s happening?

Putin is not happy with Chinese unlimited friendship?

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## PakAlp

jhungary said:


> Again, going back to my first post.
> 
> Winning and Losing is a complex concept, if you think US "Loses" in Afghanistan, that's your opinion, in my opinion, if that's your conclusion, that mean you know nothing about warfare. That's my opinion.
> 
> AS for the other stuff, that's already said in my previous post, I am not going to rinse and repeat.



Usa defeated the Taliban government within a week and overtook the whole country. Isn't that a victory? Where the USA failed was they could not defeat the low level insurgency and they could not bring in a powerful puppet government. After 20 years they had enough because they could not win allies to form a powerful government so they left Afghanistan. In terms of military to military fight the USA won but other than that they lost because the Taliban are back and controlling Afghanistan. Dont forget the USA didnt have control of all Afghanistan, maybe 60%, they had heavily guarded bases all over their controlled areas, they were too afraid to fight the insurgency because it would cost too much soldiers lives. 

In Iraq it was a similar situation, they removed Saddam Hussain regime but the benefit for the USA was the anti Saddam Iraqi shias and Kurds allied with the USA and they were given power, effectively replacing Saddam regime.

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## kingQamaR

With every town the Ukrainians take they expand the range of their artillery and acquire a new set of targets. The Russians did not expect the Ukrainians to make gains and as a result didnt fortify their positions beyond the front lines. The Ukrainians can simply bypass the larger Russian held cities, cut them off of their supply lines, and wait until the Russians are forced to surrender


----------



## thetutle

gambit said:


> This is about making US look bad. That is all there is to it. He knows 'winning' or 'losing' is a complex issue.


of course it's a complex issue and NATO and US lost on every metric you measure it in. except of course if you consider profits to the military industrial complex, if the aim was to enrich those guys, then they won. 

I dont need to make US look bad, it usually does it all by itself. You clearly dont realise im very pro America, but I'm also pro facts. they dont have to be mutually exclusive categories. 

I also remember when a US army officer almost threw me out of his home when I suggested that Iraq doest have WMD's back in 2005. you dont have to lie to yourself to be patriotic Americans. You're better than that.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> With every town the Ukrainians take they expand the range of their artillery and acquire a new set of targets. The Russians did not expect the Ukrainians to make gains and as a result didnt fortify their positions beyond the front lines. The Ukrainians can simply bypass the larger Russian held cities, cut them off of their supply lines, and wait until the Russians are forced to surrender


There is a pressure on Ukraine army, it must continue pressing on the offensive.
The Russians want to stage faked referendum in Luhansk, Donez and Cherson as soon as possible.


----------



## thetutle

Viet said:


> Gazprom stops delivering gas to China. The company says week long maintenance on “power of Siberia” pipeline. The same reason Gazprom said when stopping gas delivery to Europe.
> 
> What’s happening?
> 
> Putin is not happy with Chinese unlimited friendship?


could it be sabotage? russia would not cut off their gas. it needs the money.


----------



## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> There is a pressure on Ukraine army, it must continue pressing on the offensive.
> The Russians want to stage faked referendum in Luhansk, Donez and Cherson as soon as possible.



The Russians were hoping to set up a defensive line on the Oskil river, but the Ukrainians have now crossed in numerous places. In the Khakiv region at least, it looks very bad for the Russian invaders


----------



## Viet

thetutle said:


> could it be sabotage? russia would not cut off their gas. it needs the money.


I don’t know what Putin has in minds.
Maybe his brain shows signs of degradation. He is 70y. Nobody with some little Iq stops gas delivery to Europe and China at the same time. But they do it. Maybe Putin has found a gold mine.


----------



## Mrc

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572179581062332416




And Russia has more nukes than NATO and US combined

Which given the above facts are also true leaves them with a very interesting choice

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572188273677635584
My fav reply on this tweet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572243243458232320

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572248959560687617

Russia admits its losing in Ukraine



Mrc said:


> And Russia has more nukes than NATO and US combined
> 
> Which given the above facts are also true leaves them with a very interesting choice



The US has around 5,500 nuclear warheads and Russia 6,000. The difference is inconsequential

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## zectech

Viet said:


> Gazprom stops delivering gas to China. The company says week long maintenance on “power of Siberia” pipeline. The same reason Gazprom said when stopping gas delivery to Europe.
> 
> What’s happening?
> 
> Putin is not happy with Chinese unlimited friendship?



The whole of the strategy of Russia is to not destroy Ukraine, it is to destroy the EU economically and politically. Ukraine is for desert. The main meal is to destroy the euro and EU for Russia.

natural gas is one of the main means of trump/putin war against a multipolar world that includes the EU and once included China. Trump, Putin and Pompeo want a unipolar world of US/UK/Fr/puppet Rus and to destroy the EU and rise of a successful economy and strong military in Europe.

Russia is capable of knocking out Ukraine, yet has not fully mobilized. The goal thus far has been to draw the EU into sanctions and hyperinflation warfare that Putin, Trump, British royals, Le Pen and other UK-US-Fr-Rus trolls want to achieve.

This was the Trump goal for the past 6 years:

Destroy the EU and China.









'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says


There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.




www.cnbc.com





Trump and Putin are exposed as partners in crime to stop a multiploar world. Trump was supposed to wipe out China to stop a multipolar world. And Putin is to wipe out the EU to stop a multipolar world. The British and Americans only want Entente of UK, US, Fr and Ruzzia with Israel to rule the globe. Putin and Trump are the tools to stop freedom in the globe. And the Iranians and Chinese fell for the Trump plan. Communist Chinese and Theocratic Iranians are as dangerous as the MAGA crowd. In their support of Trump/Putin, they are the MAGA crowd. Only fools believe Trump hates the British royals. Only fools believe Putin hates Trump. These three are on the same team. And the Communist Chinese are blind to this in trying to destroy the EU with Putin.

Have you ever heard that the cia were kicked out of the Kremlin.



https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/



The Chabad is a cia linked group.









What’s Behind Vladimir Putin’s Close Relationship With an Orthodox Jewish Sect?


Moscow’s Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center is an impressive place. Original artifacts, film clips, and interactive displays take visitors on a tour...




slate.com





The Russian mafia is cia linked.









Putin Welcomes the Return of the Russian Mafia


Putin appears to be courting the notion of Russia as "a superpower of crime," not as a threat or an embarrassment but a potential opportunity.




www.newsweek.com










Russian Mafia's Worldwide Grip


Operates In At Least 50 Countries



web.archive.org





The Putin Russian Oligarchs are neck deep into the Western Oligarch circles.

Ask the Iranians and others around the globe who know Trump is evil whether Trump is the zionist cia or fighting against the zionists. Yet are too revengeful to figure out Trump hates NATO Europe.









Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book


‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said




news.yahoo.com





Putin and buddy Trump wanted to destroy NATO Europe. For a unipolar global disorder led by Washington.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502387779749257216
Trump throughout the 4 years in the white house predicted this and warned Europe of Russia because Trump foreknew what partner in crime Putin would do to the EU. Trump ego spilled the beans and it is easy to realize that Putin and Trump are in on it together to destroy Europe.









Donald Trump Declares The European Union A 'Foe'


"In a trade sense, they’ve really taken advantage of us.”




www.huffpost.com





*CBS anchorman Jeff Glor had asked the president who he thought was the nation’s “biggest competitor” or “biggest foe.” Trump named the E.U. first.*

Gales of stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3,...


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572252704763944962
The Russians are pathological liars and clowns.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

zectech said:


> The whole of the strategy of Russia is to not destroy Ukraine, it is to destroy the EU economically and politically. Ukraine is for desert. The main meal is to destroy the euro and EU for Russia.
> 
> natural gas is one of the main means of trump/putin war against a multipolar world that includes the EU and once included China. Trump, Putin and Pompeo want a unipolar world of US/UK/Fr/puppet Rus and to destroy the EU and rise of a successful economy and strong military in Europe.
> 
> Russia is capable of knocking out Ukraine, yet has not fully mobilized. The goal thus far has been to draw the EU into sanctions and hyperinflation warfare that Putin, Trump, British royals, Le Pen and other UK-US-Fr-Rus trolls want to achieve.
> 
> This was the Trump goal for the past 6 years:
> 
> Destroy the EU and China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says
> 
> 
> There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump and Putin are exposed as partners in crime to stop a multiploar world. Trump was supposed to wipe out China to stop a multipolar world. And Putin is to wipe out the EU to stop a multipolar world. The British and Americans only want Entente of UK, US, Fr and Ruzzia with Israel to rule the globe. Putin and Trump are the tools to stop freedom in the globe. And the Iranians and Chinese fell for the Trump plan. Communist Chinese and Theocratic Iranians are as dangerous as the MAGA crowd. In their support of Trump/Putin, they are the MAGA crowd. Only fools believe Trump hates the British Royals. Only fools believe Putin hates Trump. These three are on the same team. And the Communist Chinese are blind to this in trying to destroy the EU with Putin.
> 
> Gales of stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3,...
> 
> Have you ever heard that the cia were kicked out of the Kremlin.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/
> 
> 
> 
> The Chabad is a cia linked group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What’s Behind Vladimir Putin’s Close Relationship With an Orthodox Jewish Sect?
> 
> 
> Moscow’s Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center is an impressive place. Original artifacts, film clips, and interactive displays take visitors on a tour...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> slate.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian mafia is cia linked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin Welcomes the Return of the Russian Mafia
> 
> 
> Putin appears to be courting the notion of Russia as "a superpower of crime," not as a threat or an embarrassment but a potential opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Mafia's Worldwide Grip
> 
> 
> Operates In At Least 50 Countries
> 
> 
> 
> web.archive.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Putin Russian Oligarchs are neck deep into the Western Oligarch circles.


Yes we know it. Angela Merkel says it.

Putin’s arch enemy is not Ukraine. It is the EU.

Ukraine wants to join the EU, that is in Putin’s head the worst betrayal ever.

His hatred on the EU is bottomless that he wants to exterminate Ukraine as country, Ukrainians as people from the map.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Yes we know it. Angela Merkel says it.
> 
> Putin’s arch enemy is not Ukraine. It is the EU.
> 
> Ukraine wants to join the EU, that is in Putin’s head the worst betrayal ever.
> 
> His hatred on the EU is bottomless that he wants to exterminate Ukraine as country, Ukrainians as people from the map.



Russia wanted to join EU and was not accepted.


----------



## aviator_fan

jhungary said:


> Again, it's a complex issue, as I said you have to physically lose something to have lost a war. I mean, what if Taliban did not control Afghanistan and Ghani still in charge but moved the country to China once we left? Does that mean we lost again? How about what if US work with Taliban and release the funding and prevent them from further harbor terrorist, does that mean we had won even Taliban is back?
> 
> I can tell you this, either one of these scenarios mean nothing to the US, because that's Afghanistan affair. Unless we want to annex Afghanistan and make it to our affair.
> 
> And why you are so keen on NATO lost anyway? Do you think life is really better under Taliban control?


You don't have to defend and or keep on reminding the obvious. There are dozens of posts from same 2 or 3 speakers that humiliation of Putin should be offset by evil colonial past, or rejoice in a past possible defeat.

Neither one is going to change the outcome of whats taking place and the pathetic manner it has been executed by a near superpower. They should have the common sense to start a new thread and thrash every NATO country or colonial power or US misguided adventures. For some reason these distractors that are out of justification for Putin's incompetence get some satisfaction out of changing the subject. They know to put that on this thread because they will get responses.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572232919522983936


----------



## aviator_fan

Authoritative source pls and I am keen to understand when this happened other than your random imagination. Putin would have been too proud to be part of EU.

And even if he attempted, the political governance requirements are to stringent to have been accepted. Thats why the process with Turkey never went forward. And even those that are in it (Hungary) have to continue to undertake political reforms to get more of the EU recovery funds


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia wanted to join EU and was not accepted.

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572260415211700225
Here comes the B-21

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia wanted to join EU and was not accepted.


Why would Putin want to join EU?
EU requirements are division of powers, rule of laws, etc. it’s a long list.
you seriously think Putin will ever accept these conditions?
No way, he wants to rule Russia like his car garage.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

khansaheeb said:


> Trump is only a mouth piece of the Pentagon, Israel and the Republican party.


You’re an idiot



zectech said:


> The whole of the strategy of Russia is to not destroy Ukraine, it is to destroy the EU economically and politically. Ukraine is for desert. The main meal is to destroy the euro and EU for Russia.
> 
> natural gas is one of the main means of trump/putin war against a multipolar world that includes the EU and once included China. Trump, Putin and Pompeo want a unipolar world of US/UK/Fr/puppet Rus and to destroy the EU and rise of a successful economy and strong military in Europe.
> 
> Russia is capable of knocking out Ukraine, yet has not fully mobilized. The goal thus far has been to draw the EU into sanctions and hyperinflation warfare that Putin, Trump, British royals, Le Pen and other UK-US-Fr-Rus trolls want to achieve.
> 
> This was the Trump goal for the past 6 years:
> 
> Destroy the EU and China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says
> 
> 
> There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump and Putin are exposed as partners in crime to stop a multiploar world. Trump was supposed to wipe out China to stop a multipolar world. And Putin is to wipe out the EU to stop a multipolar world. The British and Americans only want Entente of UK, US, Fr and Ruzzia with Israel to rule the globe. Putin and Trump are the tools to stop freedom in the globe. And the Iranians and Chinese fell for the Trump plan. Communist Chinese and Theocratic Iranians are as dangerous as the MAGA crowd. In their support of Trump/Putin, they are the MAGA crowd. Only fools believe Trump hates the British royals. Only fools believe Putin hates Trump. These three are on the same team. And the Communist Chinese are blind to this in trying to destroy the EU with Putin.
> 
> Have you ever heard that the cia were kicked out of the Kremlin.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/
> 
> 
> 
> The Chabad is a cia linked group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What’s Behind Vladimir Putin’s Close Relationship With an Orthodox Jewish Sect?
> 
> 
> Moscow’s Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center is an impressive place. Original artifacts, film clips, and interactive displays take visitors on a tour...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> slate.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian mafia is cia linked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin Welcomes the Return of the Russian Mafia
> 
> 
> Putin appears to be courting the notion of Russia as "a superpower of crime," not as a threat or an embarrassment but a potential opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Mafia's Worldwide Grip
> 
> 
> Operates In At Least 50 Countries
> 
> 
> 
> web.archive.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Putin Russian Oligarchs are neck deep into the Western Oligarch circles.
> 
> Ask the Iranians and others around the globe who know Trump is evil whether Trump is the zionist cia or fighting against the zionists. Yet are too revengeful to figure out Trump hates NATO Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book
> 
> 
> ‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin and buddy Trump wanted to destroy NATO Europe. For a unipolar global disorder led by Washington.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502387779749257216
> Trump throughout the 4 years in the white house predicted this and warned Europe of Russia because Trump foreknew what partner in crime Putin would do to the EU. Trump ego spilled the beans and it is easy to realize that Putin and Trump are in on it together to destroy Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump Declares The European Union A 'Foe'
> 
> 
> "In a trade sense, they’ve really taken advantage of us.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.huffpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CBS anchorman Jeff Glor had asked the president who he thought was the nation’s “biggest competitor” or “biggest foe.” Trump named the E.U. first.*
> 
> Gales of stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3,...


All fake news, nice try


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572284473273888770

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## alimobin memon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572284473273888770


Let them fight


----------



## SIPRA

Referendums are being held on 23-27 September, in LPR, DPR, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, for their inclusion in Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

SIPRA said:


> Referendums are being held on 23-27 September, in LPR, DPR, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, for their inclusion in Russia.



This could mean direct war between Russia and Ukraine.

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## Ali_Baba

Russia is going for full mobilisation and "war". At least the pretence of the Special operation is over. If you are between 18 and 35 - then you are going to Ukraine for Putin.

Russia has lost so much equipment that all they can do now is "throw" people at the problem.

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572283608294985728

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> No that means you won. your puppet run the show.
> 
> this means you lost becasue they are back in power and you failed to remove them,
> 
> I'm keen on it because it's the truth. I do not think life is better under Taliban.


How hard is it for you to understand US cannot dictate term with Afghan as much as Russia cannot dictate term with Ukraine. If Ukraine want to be Pro-West, same as Taliban, Ghani Government and the US. 

And one final time, because I am not going to be replying to you on this issue again. You cannot lose anything you never had. Afghan government is Afghan government, what they want to do is what they want to do, they want to do a runner instead of fighting for its own people is their choice, US never wanted to annex Afghanistan, and it certainly is not installing any puppet regime, because there is nothing to be had in Afghanistan. And if Afghan does not want to help themselves, nobody, including the American, can help them. 

And if US walk away after 20 years of trying to help, that show you how shit is the situation in Afghanistan. If anything, that is the thing people should focus on, Not who won what where, or *do you think there is a winner in this whole god damn situation*?? US spend 2 trillion dollars prop up a regime for nothing just for it to felt back to the Taliban, Taliban spend 20 years in a cave and now still can't hold the government together and moving from 1 war to another., people of Afghanistan don't have enough food and money and have to sell their children. Tell me, do anyone really win anything from this? And that's the truth. 

Now, can we just go back to Ukraine?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia is going for full mobilisation and "war". At least the pretence of the Special operation is over. If you are between 18 and 35 - then you are going to Ukraine for Putin.
> 
> Russia has lost so much equipment that all they can do now is "throw" people at the problem.



Also, Russia is deploying war economy. All military hardware factories will be on full capacity after declaration of state of war.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## alimobin memon

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Also, Russia is deploying war economy. All military hardware factories will be on full capacity after declaration of state of war.


Told everyone Russians are upto something. The way they retreated means they didnt care about equipment rather something big is to be done.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Another “Ringtausch”

Slovenia gives 28x M55S tanks to Ukraine.
Germany gives NATO materials to Slovenia as compensation.






Der Kampfpanzer M-55S wird nun von Slowenien an die Ukraine gegeben






Slowenien meldet Einigung auf Ringtausch: 28 Panzer für die Ukraine


LJUBLJANA (dpa-AFX) -Slowenien und Deutschland sind sich nach slowenischen Angaben über einen Ringtausch als Militärhilfe für die Ukraine einig. Demnach gibt Slowenien 28 alte Kampfpanzer M-55S an das von Russland angegriffene Land ab. Das teilte der slowenische Ministerpräsident Robert Golob in...




app.handelsblatt.com


----------



## jhungary

PakAlp said:


> Usa defeated the Taliban government within a week and overtook the whole country. Isn't that a victory? Where the USA failed was they could not defeat the low level insurgency and they could not bring in a powerful puppet government. After 20 years they had enough because they could not win allies to form a powerful government so they left Afghanistan. In terms of military to military fight the USA won but other than that they lost because the Taliban are back and controlling Afghanistan. Dont forget the USA didnt have control of all Afghanistan, maybe 60%, they had heavily guarded bases all over their controlled areas, they were too afraid to fight the insurgency because it would cost too much soldiers lives.
> 
> In Iraq it was a similar situation, they removed Saddam Hussain regime but the benefit for the USA was the anti Saddam Iraqi shias and Kurds allied with the USA and they were given power, effectively replacing Saddam regime.


I am not going to repeat my reply, if you have not gotten my point then you may never will, you may not agree with my point but that's my opinion. 



Wood said:


> I think that the annexation is meant as a paper justification for war mobilization. Just a trope for domestic audience.
> 
> There are doubts if Russia can even provide the necessary logistical support to troops if a war mobilization is officially announced. No lend lease agreement in place now unlike the WW2 days. Maybe China will help its junior partner with helmets and such



There will NOT be a full mobilisation, I don't think Russia even have the ability to fully mobilise their reserve. People are going to leave Russia in dove if Putin even hint at mobilisation. 

It's one thing for the middle class in Russia to watch the funny comment and war on TV, it's another set of fact when you are forced, not even asked, to fight that war. That is why he hasn't called this war a war, he can at most mobilise some reserve and put them in a bin and ship them to Ukraine. This wouldn't change much.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sifar zero

alimobin memon said:


> Told everyone Russians are upto something. The way they retreated means they didnt care about equipment rather something big is to be done.


Exactly there has almost little to no activity by the Russians in the previous 4 days.
So something big is in the works.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> You don't have to defend and or keep on reminding the obvious. There are dozens of posts from same 2 or 3 speakers that humiliation of Putin should be offset by evil colonial past, or rejoice in a past possible defeat.
> 
> Neither one is going to change the outcome of whats taking place and the pathetic manner it has been executed by a near superpower. They should have the common sense to start a new thread and thrash every NATO country or colonial power or US misguided adventures. For some reason these distractors that are out of justification for Putin's incompetence get some satisfaction out of changing the subject. They know to put that on this thread because they will get responses.


Yeah, I am done with this. 

I mean, if you have to kick for the Taliban, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## zectech

The BBC exposed Trump as Mafia linked 






Not fake news. Chabad connections of Putin and Trump confirmed by primary sources.

Chabad admits Putin lets Chabad run the economy of Russia.





__





Putin and Jews






www.bitchute.com





Trump family donated land to Chabad decades ago and Trump is connected to Chabad Jews.









Trump meets with Chabad rabbis in Oval Office


President issues proclamation in honor of Education and Sharing Day, marking anniversary of the birth of Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson




www.timesofisrael.com













The Odd Chabad Connection Between Putin and Trump | Washington Monthly


But, remember, Trump told us he has absolutely nothing to do with Russia and no business interests there.




washingtonmonthly.com





Trump and Putin links are not fake news. They have same cia-linked handlers, as exposed by primary sources and well documented news articles. This info triggers the trolls.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SIPRA

It seems that Russia is endeavoring to create conditions for an internal revolt and overthrowing of Zelensky Government. Then, the successor government can negotiate some peaceful settlement of all issues.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## alimobin memon

Russia agrees to provide petrol to Pakistan on deferred payments: report


ISLAMABAD: In a major development, Russia has agreed to provide petrol to Pakistan on deferred payments, Daily Jang reported Tuesday.The development came after Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif and...




www.google.com





Russian petrol to pakistan coming.


----------



## zectech

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572143697655132160


----------



## dbc

alimobin memon said:


> Russia agrees to provide petrol to Pakistan on deferred payments: report
> 
> 
> ISLAMABAD: In a major development, Russia has agreed to provide petrol to Pakistan on deferred payments, Daily Jang reported Tuesday.The development came after Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian petrol to pakistan coming.


Pakistani ammo to Ukraine and deferred payment Russian fuel for Pakistan - good deal for Pakistan.


----------



## alimobin memon

dbc said:


> Pakistani ammo to Ukraine and deferred payment Russian fuel for Pakistan - good deal for Pakistan.


Yes that is odd. Maybe the ammo thing will stop ?


----------



## Ali_Baba

alimobin memon said:


> Yes that is odd. Maybe the ammo thing will stop ?



Interesting if true - quid pro quo - but I dont think so - Pakistan cannot withstand pressure from USA who wants Ukraine to win. Fairly certain if the deal is true - it is being done without conditions.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## alimobin memon

Ali_Baba said:


> Interesting if true - quid pro quo - but I dont think so - Pakistan cannot withstand pressure from USA who wants Ukraine to win. Fairly certain if the deal is true - it is being done without conditions.


I think the artillery rounds have not much impact thats why its ignored by russia or doesnt care.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> I am not going to repeat my reply, if you have not gotten my point then you may never will, you may not agree with my point but that's my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> There will NOT be a full mobilisation, I don't think Russia even have the ability to fully mobilise their reserve. People are going to leave Russia in dove if Putin even hint at mobilisation.
> 
> It's one thing for the middle class in Russia to watch the funny comment and war on TV, it's another set of fact when you are forced, not even asked, to fight that war. That is why he hasn't called this war a war, he can at most mobilise some reserve and put them in a bin and ship them to Ukraine. This wouldn't change much.


I think he will call full mobi. What other options he has? Zero. Russia loses on average 5 tanks per day per estimate, by this pace, Russia will run of tanks in 200 days. russia tank factory in Ural or so can compensate some however not full replace the loss.

He will double down before Russia goes down the drain. China will wait and see how Russia collapsing.

After faked referendum at occupied regions he will accuse Ukraine to attack Russia territory then declare war against Ukraine.

Then he will accuse Germany the country delivers Ukraine weapons to attack Russia mainland.


----------



## zectech

Jared before meeting Ivanka spoke to Chabad House. So Trump has daughter "dated and married" to Kushner linked to Chabad.






chabad links with US government goes back decades









Chabad delegation meeting Obama includes woman, a first - Jewish Telegraphic Agency


The presence of the veteran female educator was a nod to the president’s emphasis on the need for education for girls.




www.jta.org













President Bush Meets With Chabad Rabbis. - The Yeshiva World


(Click on image) From the Whitehouse Website: President George W. Bush signs a presidential proclamation Tuesday, April 15, 2008, in honor of Wednesday's




www.theyeshivaworld.com









__





Loading…






www.chabad.org





Chabad are politically tied to the US deepstate. And politically tied to Russia and Putin.

Connected to Trump and Putin. Allowed to run the economy of Russia, according to Chabad in Russia. And get access to US politicians from Presidents to congress.

Jared Kushner is connected to them, before dating Ivanka.

The Chabad is the new Kissinger.

And, Kissinger is a confidant of both Putin and Trump.









Kissinger, a longtime Putin confidant, sidles up to Trump


America’s pre-eminent ex-diplomat gets back in the mix. Could he help broker a deal with Russia?




www.politico.eu





So when you see names such as Putin and Trump, these are puppets of the supa deepstate of London, Washington, Hell Aviv.

Is Trump connections tied with the Supreme Leader of Iran. No. Is Kissinger connected to Supreme Leader of Iran. No. Is Chabad linked to Supreme Leader of Iran. No.

Why. For one thing, Putin is a zionist Jew who got outed by the President of Israel as a Jew. Putin has been a puppet since the 1990s. And was vetted by the security agencies to be the approved successor to puppet Yeltsin.

Trump and the US MAGA deepstate want the EU destroyed and China destroyed. Putin is the planned do-er of the deed against the EU. And cia trolls don't want this info out to Europe to expose the cia as the handler of this war.



https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/



The cia want cia assets in the halls of the Kremlin and EU to destroy the EU, not the Kremlin.

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## dbc

alimobin memon said:


> Yes that is odd. Maybe the ammo thing will stop ?



let's hope not, it remains to be seen how Russia will ship refined fuel to Pakistan.
Russian refined fuel terminals are in the baltics. In a month or two these routes can only be serviced by 'ice class' ships. Further, Russia doesn't have enough tankers and the global fleet will be busy ferrying refined oil from the middle east to Europe this winter, so there isn't any spare capacity for Pakistan. Finally, Russian flag vessels will be banned from European waters by December so shipping refined petroleum from Russia to Pakistan will be challenging.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dbc said:


> Pakistani ammo to Ukraine and deferred payment Russian fuel for Pakistan - good deal for Pakistan.



122 mm unguided rounds. You can shoot 100 of these and not hit a single target. Meanwhile. Yeah that's what I'm talking about.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I think he will call full mobi. What other options he has? Zero. Russia loses on average 5 tanks per day per estimate, by this pace, Russia will run of tanks in 200 days. russia tank factory in Ural or so can compensate some however not full replace the loss.
> 
> He will double down before Russia goes down the drain. China will wait and see how Russia collapsing.
> 
> After faked referendum at occupied regions he will accuse Ukraine to attack Russia territory then declare war against Ukraine.
> 
> Then he will accuse Germany the country delivers Ukraine weapons to attack Russia mainland.


It has not changed, if he called for a full mobilisation, he is asking for a coup. With most of the Riot Police and National Guard sent to Ukraine (half of the 400,000 force is now in Ukraine) he don't have much to quell protest. 

And then the white middle class Russian will have Putin balls if he calls for a full Mob, people are not stupid, they expect this war is going to end soon, yet 7 months down the road and you call for a full mobilisation. You don't need to be smart to know something is wrong.

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## Viet




----------



## alimobin memon

PakFactor said:


> I love this white-on-white killing. Let them keep at it.


People fought their wars cause they had no option. Now let these guys have some taste of their own.

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## Ali_Baba

Russia-Ukraine war live: Putin’s address on ‘votes’ in occupied regions postponed, say Russian media – as it happened


Russian leader’s speech reportedly delayed as Kyiv says referendums would end any chance of diplomatic solution to invasion




www.theguardian.com





Putin address is postponed until tomorrow morning, Russian media reports​
Andrew Roth
Vladimir Putin’s big speech on new annexations of Ukrainian territory has been postponed until tomorrow morning, Russian media are reporting. Putin’s televised address to the Russian public has reportedly been rescheduled to 8AM Moscow time. Forbes Russia citing two sources in the Kremlin administration said the speech would be broadcast “when the Far East wakes up.” It isn’t clear why the speech was postponed. Analysts have suggested that the speech may also serve to announce a partial mobilisation in Russia. Pro-Kremlin pundits have told their readers to go to bed. “Tomorrow!” posted TV presenter Vladimir Soloviev.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...089a550b8a933e#block-632a155f8f089a550b8a933e


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> And then the white middle class Russian will have Putin balls if he calls for a full Mob,


white middle class russian? seriously? what will the Black Russians do?



PakFactor said:


> I love this white-on-white killing. Let them keep at it.


thats terrible. you should show there is more white people that Indians. World is not running out of white people.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Mrc said:


> And Russia has more nukes than NATO and US combined
> 
> Which given the above facts are also true leaves them with a very interesting choice


You do not know how many *working* nukes Russia has.

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## aviator_fan

alimobin memon said:


> Told everyone Russians are upto something. The way they retreated means they didnt care about equipment rather something big is to be done.


They already don't have people so resorting to the prison population. And they left the equipment. So whats their secret strategy



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> This could mean direct war between Russia and Ukraine.


Not the disney cartoon war thats been taking place. Wtf are you talking about

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## K_Bin_W

PakFactor said:


> I love this white-on-white killing. Let them keep at it.


Wrong white on white the real white culprit is on the other side of the world

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## aviator_fan

alimobin memon said:


> I think the artillery rounds have not much impact thats why its ignored by russia or doesnt care.


One or two aircraft worth doesn't change the balance. Bigger fish to fry


----------



## dbc

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia-Ukraine war live: Putin’s address on ‘votes’ in occupied regions postponed, say Russian media – as it happened
> 
> 
> Russian leader’s speech reportedly delayed as Kyiv says referendums would end any chance of diplomatic solution to invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin address is postponed until tomorrow morning, Russian media reports​
> Andrew Roth
> Vladimir Putin’s big speech on new annexations of Ukrainian territory has been postponed until tomorrow morning, Russian media are reporting. Putin’s televised address to the Russian public has reportedly been rescheduled to 8AM Moscow time. Forbes Russia citing two sources in the Kremlin administration said the speech would be broadcast “when the Far East wakes up.” It isn’t clear why the speech was postponed. Analysts have suggested that the speech may also serve to announce a partial mobilisation in Russia. Pro-Kremlin pundits have told their readers to go to bed. “Tomorrow!” posted TV presenter Vladimir Soloviev.
> 
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...089a550b8a933e#block-632a155f8f089a550b8a933e


Putin will announce his resignation tomorrow, Tonight he's busy in a 'how to flee your country with billions' Zoom workshop hosted by Ashraf Ghani.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572298517544157184
LMAO let's see how many Russians will accept to be sent as cannon fodder for Putler's dreams in Ukraine with old T55s,rusty ak47s and ww2 era helmets. 🤡

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572298517544157184
> LMAO let's see how many Russians will accept to be sent as cannon fodder for Putler's dreams in Ukraine with old T55s,rusty ak47s and ww2 era helmets. 🤡


North Koreans who flee to China are deported back to North Korea. The same fate will await the Russians who flee to China. Maybe they will get a free helmet from China to fight in Ukraine

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## WagmutJ

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571854408689795073


This savages mongrel need a nice barbarian cleansing even with Korean BBQ napalm🐄 🐄🐄🐄🐄🐄🐄


----------



## patero

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You do not know how many *working* nukes Russia has.


Especially after Russia suspended US inspections of its nuclear arsenal.

Russia halts U.S. inspections of its nuclear aresenal


----------



## Bengal71

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> T-90M being built at the Ural tank factory for the war effort


Where is their ARMATA tank? Why aren't they using it?


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> white middle class russian? seriously? what will the Black Russians do?


Black Russian can do shit, look at the demographic of Russia please

93% of Russian are White European. of those 55% are middle class. What Black Russian is? 0.08%??


----------



## TNT

ZeGerman said:


> Lets use another analogy. Boxing.
> 
> Afghanistan is like me fighting mike tyson. But instead of actually boxing, i hide out for days in the crowd till mike walks off cause his parking meter bill is getting too high.
> I then run in, beat up the referee (ana) and start shouting:
> I defeated mike tyson!! Did you see him run! What a humiliation! King of the ring baby!



So the weapons capability is way off the chart, u never mention that and then say they hid? Maybe u were too stupid to find them, or what abt those bombs that destroy tunnels? And ANA is compared referee? U seriously are thick, ANA was the main forced used by NATO in final 10 years.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Bengal71 said:


> Where is their ARMATA tank? Why aren't they using it?



Currently under trials.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572336362388324354


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Bengal71 said:


> Where is their ARMATA tank? Why aren't they using it?



There's only like around 10 Armata in existence

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## Wood




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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572297610177937410

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572297610177937410



Even so, 80s MiG-29 lacks the spare parts to fly, nor can they go up against Su-35 if they are able to fly.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572313966897922048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572185049432174592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572308162354593795


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Even so, 80s MiG-29 lacks the spare parts to fly, nor can they go up against Su-35 if they are able to fly.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571403342751928321

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572224955751829504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572276774863503365

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## The SC

About the referendums..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389840007892992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389844885835777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389851026100224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389854981275653

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389865526005760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389874732527616

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389879635640320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389884672737288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389892054831104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389901093732357

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389906525130752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389925148033025


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Also, Russia is deploying war economy. All military hardware factories will be on full capacity after declaration of state of war.


Pretty sad they need to do that to fight little Ukraine, notice I didn’t say defeat


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Pretty sad they need to do that to fight little Ukraine, notice I didn’t say defeat



Ukraine has the most powerful army in Europe. Ukraine used to be the second most country in USSR after Russia.

Not a single Chinese or Russian thinks Ukraine is weak. It is only Yanks who think Ukraine is weak.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389937831415808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389947361079298

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389967216914432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390013752741888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390026876682241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390039140573185

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## alimobin memon

Man tweeter is the worst fake news spreader or misinformation.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390053527310337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390059281879040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390063195193345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390071155703810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390075924717569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390083717890049

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## alimobin memon

RoadAmerica said:


> Pretty sad they need to do that to fight little Ukraine, notice I didn’t say defeat


Are you kidding me ? Ukraine as a country was not doing that bad militarily ... little ukraine has punch better than iraq or Afghanistan. By records to invade such countries USA had help from NATO.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390053527310337
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390059281879040
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390063195193345
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390071155703810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390075924717569
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390083717890049


Logical points but ukraine doesnt deserve atacms its just west using the same old technique of using others lives to get their job done.

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## Brainsucker

In 2014, they used to be weak. Don't you remember what happen to them at that time? It seems that they got a lot of help from NATO from behind in this current war. That's why they got boost of power.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Brainsucker said:


> In 2014, they used to be weak. Don't you remember what happen to them at that time? It seems that they got a lot of help from NATO from behind in this current war. That's why they got boost of power.



Ukraine is the most powerfully armed country in Europe.


----------



## RoadAmerica

alimobin memon said:


> Are you kidding me ? Ukraine as a country was not doing that bad militarily ... little ukraine has punch better than iraq or Afghanistan. By records to invade such countries USA had help from NATO.
> 
> 
> Logically points but ukraine doesnt deserve atacms its just west using the same old technique of using others lives to get their job done.


Please Europe couldn’t even bomb Libya without US tankers. Glad people are finally admitting Ukraine was the heart of Russia’s industrial base, remember the deniers a few pages back saying Russia can make aircraft carriers?

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine is the most powerfully armed country in Europe.


What happened to Kiev will fall in 3 days? 
You clowns can’t even keep your own propaganda straight.

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## alimobin memon

RoadAmerica said:


> Please Europe couldn’t even bomb Libya without US tankers. Glad people are finally admitting Ukraine was the heart of Russia’s industrial base, remember the deniers a few pages back saying Russia can make aircraft carriers?


Yes it was industrial base. But doesnt mean they cant do anything now without ukraine. They have exported every type of weapon without ukraine after 1990s



RoadAmerica said:


> What happened to Kiev will fall in 3 days?
> You clowns can’t even keep your own propaganda straight.


That is admitting and should be admitted that ukraine is not so easy to give up. Really proud and gives me morale too that Pakistan can fight big countries too if proper backing and logistics are present. The myth of superpowers is debatable even against the biggest powers.

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## RoadAmerica

alimobin memon said:


> Yes it was industrial base. But doesnt mean they cant do anything now without ukraine. They have exported every type of weapon without ukraine after 1990s
> 
> 
> That is admitting and should be admitted that ukraine is not so easy to give up. Really proud and gives me morale too that Pakistan can fight big countries too if proper backing and logistics are present. The myth of superpowers is debatable even against the biggest powers.


Let me correct you…Russian junk weapons 
Nobody with the ability to buy western weapons would choose Russian and after this super duper special operation they won’t ever again

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## khansaheeb

alimobin memon said:


> Told everyone Russians are upto something. The way they retreated means they didnt care about equipment rather something big is to be done.


Please don't say the N-word.


----------



## alimobin memon

khansaheeb said:


> Please don't say the N-word.


N is used in desperation.


RoadAmerica said:


> Let me correct you…Russian junk weapons
> Nobody with the ability to buy western weapons would choose Russian and after this super duper special operation they won’t ever again


You are wrong. There has been many cases where armies strategies and weapons just dont work.

Remember all su 35 that are dedtroyed in ukraine are friendly fired by s400. Whether you admit this or not ukraine has admitted that they didnt shoot them down.

S400 has glitch and thats why su 35 is less used to not confuse ground aa systems.

T90m is great weapon that counters this turret carousel issue.

Russias latest frigates are good systems the only naval ships destroyed are of cold war era

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Black Russian can do shit, look at the demographic of Russia please
> 
> 93% of Russian are White European. of those 55% are middle class. What Black Russian is? 0.08%??


Im sure whites are more like 98% of the russian population. So thats why im puzzled by your post.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Im sure whites are more like 98% of the russian population. So thats why im puzzled by your post.


Depends on what you mean white, I counted European White when I quote 93%,, that does not include Asian White (like Kazakh) or Middle Eastern White (like Dagestan or Chechen) because those don't earn nearly as much as ethnic Russian and ethnic Ukrainian in Russia.

And I think you asked me before why the White Middle Class will rise up if and when Russian announce mobilisation.


----------



## Viet

Bengal71 said:


> Where is their ARMATA tank? Why aren't they using it?


Silicon!

Without silicon, which the west controls it, by the US, UK, Germany, France, Netherlands to Japan, Korea and Taiwan, Russia military machine can’t make modern tanks. Same for modern aircraft.

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## jhungary

Jesus, they arrested Ben Rich (aka Bald and Bankrupt)

How low can Russia goes......That man just want to visit Soviet Mosaic, let him be..

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389879635640320
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389884672737288
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389892054831104
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389901093732357
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389906525130752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572389925148033025


Not funny

From the mainland Russian artillery terror bomb Ukraine civil infrastructure. They do it impunity, without fearing any Ukraine retaliation because Ukraine can’t return fire.

Now Putin and his stooges along with RT threaten with nuclear war if the US delivers long range ammo.

The US should not fear such blackmailing by Russia. Will they really start a nuclear war?


----------



## Viet

The front at Cherson is a hard nut Ukraine offensive still unable to knack it.
Ukraine spec ops unit trying the breakthrough by drones and precision artillery strikes.









(S+) Ukraine-Krieg: So wollen die Ukrainer die Russen in Cherson schlagen


Im Nordosten der Ukraine ziehen sich Russlands Truppen zurück. Im Süden haben es die ukrainischen Soldaten deutlich schwerer. Eine Spezialeinheit versucht, die Besatzer aufzureiben – mit Drohnen und präziser Artillerie.




www.spiegel.de










Ukrainische Spezialkräfte in der Region Cherson

Foto:
Maxim Dondyuk / DER SPIEGEL





Image:Ukrainians firing artillery in southern Ukraine


----------



## Soldier35

An episode of the battle in Ukraine showing the armor of the T-72 tank. In the video, the Russian T-72 tank, having received a blow from the Ukrainian ATGM, continued to move and did not leave the battlefield.






Ukrainian servicemen showed a home-made device for dropping 82 mm mines from drones. The device allows you to equip the drone with six mines.






The defeat of the BMP-1 of the Ukrainian army, moving at maximum speed. The BMP of Ukraine was destroyed in the battles in the Kherson direction, by soldiers of the 76th division of the Russian Airborne Forces.






Footage of the combat work of the Russian crew of the T-80BVM tank in Ukraine. In the video, the crew fires at the infantry of the Ukrainian army through the Sosna-U sight. The Sosna-U multi-channel sight has a sighting, thermal imaging and rangefinding channel, as well as a missile control channel. The tank commander's sight is connected to the gunner's sight by an optical channel and allows the commander to carry out target designation.






A Ukrainian tank and a Russian drone attack each other. Unusual footage of the battle in Ukraine, if you can call it that, appeared on the network. The crew of a Ukrainian T-64BV tank noticed a Russian drone attacking it, the attack was carried out by dropping grenades and ammunition on the tank. The tankers managed to close the hatch of the tank and after a while drove off to the side, after which they got out of the tank and tried to shoot down the drone with small arms.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572438643872088066


----------



## Viet

@jhungary

Putin has ordered the “partial” mobilization.

All men and women in the reserve are called in.


----------



## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> @jhungary
> 
> Putin has ordered the “partial” mobilization.
> 
> All men and women in the reserve are called in.


The USA should supply ATACMS so the ukranians can wipe out all russian train nodes and the kerch bridge. 

Good luck with russia to get all those men and material in place, and warm and fed, during winter.

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> The USA should supply ATACMS so the ukranians can wipe out all russian train nodes and the kerch bridge.
> 
> Good luck with russia to get all those men and material in place, and warm and fed, during winter.


Ukraine must urgently lay mines along the entire border, destroy every road, every bridge, every rail that connects to Russia.

The NATO should put the armies on the eastern flank in high alert.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/putin-announces-partial-mobilization-for-russian-citizens/2022/09/21/166cffee-3975-11ed-b8af-0a04e5dc3db6_story.html


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> @jhungary
> 
> Putin has ordered the “partial” mobilization.
> 
> All men and women in the reserve are called in.


Yeah, as I said, this would not be a full mob. 

Mobilising the reserve, that they can do, because those people signed up for it, it's not like they force you to, you sign a paper at the end of the draft you stay on as a reserve member. 

But then I don't know how this is going to change the equation, this war for Russia is never a manpower problem, they outnumber the Ukrainian, Russia has a command and control and logistic problem, I don't see how it is going to be solved with them piling bodies in.......

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## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> Yeah, as I said, this would not be a full mob.
> 
> Mobilising the reserve, that they can do, because those people signed up for it, it's not like they force you to, you sign a paper at the end of the draft you stay on as a reserve member.
> 
> But then I don't know how this is going to change the equation, this war for Russia is never a manpower problem, they outnumber the Ukrainian, Russia has a command and control and logistic problem, I don't see how it is going to be solved with them piling bodies in.......



Meanwhile Russia has recognized losing "only" 6000 soldiers in Ukraine.

I wonder how will those "300.000" reservists (numbers are always inflated in Russia) be equipped,trained and most importantely lead.... Expect untrained/unmotivated/under equipped soldiers that will desert within the first minutes if shit hits the fans...


----------



## patero

jhungary said:


> Yeah, as I said, this would not be a full mob.
> 
> Mobilising the reserve, that they can do, because those people signed up for it, it's not like they force you to, you sign a paper at the end of the draft you stay on as a reserve member.
> 
> But then I don't know how this is going to change the equation, this war for Russia is never a manpower problem, they outnumber the Ukrainian, Russia has a command and control and logistic problem, I don't see how it is going to be solved with them piling bodies in.......


How long do you think it will take for these newly mobilized troops to take the field? And how do you think will they be deployed, in newly formed units or reinforcing depleted units?


----------



## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Meanwhile Russia has recognized losing "only" 6000 soldiers in Ukraine.
> 
> I wonder how will those "300.000" reservists (numbers are always inflated in Russia) be equipped,trained and most importantely lead.... Expect untrained/unmotivated/under equipped soldiers that will desert within the first minutes if shit hits the fans...


Well, it depends on what kind of "Reserve" you are talking about.

I just read the decree, it said male who served in the armed force (Conscript or Not) within the last 4 years are mobilised, and female in reserve unit who had special skill also mobilised. Not sure what the actual criteria was for, but it will take about 4 weeks (for an infantry) to about 2 months (Specialty soldier like medic or armored crewman) if they are following the US National Guard Deployment pipeline.

Well, given it's now very close to winter, and those troop aren't really frontline ready, I can speculate the "Reserve" are going to be mostly light infantry designed to bulk up the defence.

But yes, this is increasingly turn into Russian own Vietnam, the moment you draft on an invasion, that's the moment your motivation dies.



patero said:


> How long do you think it will take for these newly mobilized troops to take the field? And how do you think will they be deployed, in newly formed units or reinforcing depleted units?



Not sure about how Russia Reserve works, but if we were to use the US Army National Guard deployment schedule, it takes around 4 weeks to 2 months to get them deployable.

Bear in mind National Guard serve at least 1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year. See my post above for more detail.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572288821420752912

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Yeah, as I said, this would not be a full mob.
> 
> Mobilising the reserve, that they can do, because those people signed up for it, it's not like they force you to, you sign a paper at the end of the draft you stay on as a reserve member.
> 
> But then I don't know how this is going to change the equation, this war for Russia is never a manpower problem, they outnumber the Ukrainian, Russia has a command and control and logistic problem, I don't see how it is going to be solved with them piling bodies in.......


I mean Putin runs out of soldiers. The regular are either dead, wounded, or defected. The second wave neonazi, facists, mercenaries also decimated. The third wave hooligans, sex convicts, prison inmates, rapists, thieves also gone. So now fourth wave with regular reserves.

Yes he keeps piling.

I think 5 or 6 months from now he will call full mobilization.

Russia classic tactic: human lives compensate deficits in logistics and command structure.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572528721437036544

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## mulj

i am worried about news that along the partial mobilization that russia will move over towards increased weapon production, if the scope of it is projected under war time conditions that is serious threat to ukraina to be overwhelmed by atrition.

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## hadi1990

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390053527310337
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390059281879040
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390063195193345
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390071155703810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390075924717569
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390083717890049


ive been reading ur posts they are so smart but it reflects reckless observation and superficial layer of thinking that often leads to disasters, the fire is already on and ur pooring the oil in, instead of opening the gate for negotiations to calm the russians and things down, u and tons like u in the west and mainly most of those in power are happy for the approach of the doom day, blood will only invite more blood and so will violence invite more violence.
do u think russians will accept the loss of this war at any cost or at all cost , we need to judge things from more appropriate angles the route to peace will cost tons of less price and time and effort, and above all lives and human pain .

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572534477980860416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572534483030806528

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## thetutle

hadi1990 said:


> ive been reading ur posts they are so smart but it reflects reckless observation and superficial layer of thinking that often leads to disasters, the fire is already on and ur pooring the oil in, instead of opening the gate for negotiations to calm the russians and things down, u and tons like u in the west and mainly most of those in power are happy for the approach of the doom day, blood will only invite more blood and so will violence invite more violence.
> do u think russians will accept the loss of this war at any cost or at all cost , we need to judge things from more appropriate angles the route to peace will cost tons of less price and time and effort, and above all lives and human pain .


What would you do to bring about peace?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572524813616566273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572523870455996416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572522889265713154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572514644711067649

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572516239200907264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572527821729460225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572526018111606785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572509111467790336

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572516239200907264
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572527821729460225
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572526018111606785
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572509111467790336


Yes, half the ukranian armies destroyed at loss of 5000 of our troops. Great succes! 

By the way…completely unrelated….we need 300.000 extra conscripts for our 3-day special operation please

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572474558837583872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572473928404312066
* Putin refused to receive a call from Macron for the first time since the outbreak of the war..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572501530502397952

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572538430869098500

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572540647076409346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572535483485523968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572530715270737921

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572534477980860416
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572534483030806528


Everyone thought that Russia's civil aviation industry will go bust because of sanctions. Putin has once again proved them wrong

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572523008060985345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572382767966572544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572372290746159104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572371509641097220

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I mean Putin runs out of soldiers. The regular are either dead, wounded, or defected. The second wave neonazi, facists, mercenaries also decimated. The third wave hooligans, sex convicts, prison inmates, rapists, thieves also gone. So now fourth wave with regular reserves.
> 
> Yes he keeps piling.
> 
> I think 5 or 6 months from now he will call full mobilization.
> 
> Russia classic tactic: human lives compensate deficits in logistics and command structure.


look at it this way

300,000 men (and women, probably in thousand) between 22 to 30 years old, must now leave their workforce and enter into some sort of training and then send to war in Ukraine. There are a lot of brain drain since the war started and many working ages people left Russia, with this they just thinning out their work force again, you wonder who earn bread in Russia right now?


----------



## jhungary

mulj said:


> i am worried about news that along the partial mobilization that russia will move over towards increased weapon production, if the scope of it is projected under war time conditions that is serious threat to ukraina to be overwhelmed by atrition.


First of all, this is an industrial war. And Ukraine is backed by 30 NATO member and then some of the biggest industrial nations on earth, I don't think Russia even enter into War Economy can out produce US, let alone US + Canada + UK + France + Germany + Poland + Japan + Australia and rest of EU.

Second of all, they really can't produce anything since sanction, that's the reason they have been buying from North Korea and Iran.

All Military people and intelligence people I talked to concluded that this mobilisation is not going to change anything in the field other than saying "we can raise 300,000 army" But then what do you equip them with? Ther Armor Army are deep into their reserve stocks, they are dusting out T-62 to fight in Ukraine. What can these newly formed unit can be equipped with? T-55 that stowed away for the last 60 years? You can't even find ammo for T-55 anymore, they use 100 rifled instead of either 115 or 125mm rounds......


----------



## alimobin memon

What kind of view of the people against Russia is in anyway right ? I mean of course in case of war in fear of calling the general population to fight the rich and middle class not all but many try to flee this has been seen many times in history. People think if out of millions of Russian population if 100'000 or 200k people flee means Russians are not in support of war ?

Let me make this straight the Russian people have questioned the performance of Russian operation for last 2 week failures but they will not let this easily without a fight.



jhungary said:


> First of all, this is an industrial war. And Ukraine is backed by 30 NATO member and then some of the biggest industrial nations on earth, I don't think Russia even enter into War Economy can out produce US, let alone US + Canada + UK + France + Germany + Poland + Japan + Australia and rest of EU.
> 
> Second of all, they really can't produce anything since sanction, that's the reason they have been buying from North Korea and Iran.
> 
> All Military people and intelligence people I talked to concluded that this mobilisation is not going to change anything in the field other than saying "we can raise 300,000 army" But then what do you equip them with? Ther Armor Army are deep into their reserve stocks, they are dusting out T-62 to fight in Ukraine. What can these newly formed unit can be equipped with? T-55 that stowed away for the last 60 years? You can't even find ammo for T-55 anymore, they use 100 rifled instead of either 115 or 125mm rounds......


T55 rounds are still produced. rifled tanks are good against AFV and APC's. Russia if lost is not due to there technology or mobilization it would be internal political defeat not because of decisive war victory.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572538430869098500
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572540647076409346
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572535483485523968
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572530715270737921


This.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572493956113367042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572493961012580353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572490928203464705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572487085260414976

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## aziqbal

Putin has announced mobilization

This means 300,000 extra troops

And up to 30 million if needed

This is Russia, the same nation who defeated Nazi

Simply huge resources of men + material 

World war 3?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> Putin has announced mobilization
> 
> This means 300,000 extra troops
> 
> And up to 30 million if needed
> 
> This is Russia, the same nation who defeated Nazi
> 
> World war 3?



300,000 is not that many. In Vietnam war the US mobilized nearly a million soldiers.


----------



## jhungary

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572477751910699009

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572554007188762624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572470684764499971

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572468496482566144


----------



## mulj

jhungary said:


> First of all, this is an industrial war. And Ukraine is backed by 30 NATO member and then some of the biggest industrial nations on earth, I don't think Russia even enter into War Economy can out produce US, let alone US + Canada + UK + France + Germany + Poland + Japan + Australia and rest of EU.
> 
> Second of all, they really can't produce anything since sanction, that's the reason they have been buying from North Korea and Iran.
> 
> All Military people and intelligence people I talked to concluded that this mobilisation is not going to change anything in the field other than saying "we can raise 300,000 army" But then what do you equip them with? Ther Armor Army are deep into their reserve stocks, they are dusting out T-62 to fight in Ukraine. What can these newly formed unit can be equipped with? T-55 that stowed away for the last 60 years? You can't even find ammo for T-55 anymore, they use 100 rifled instead of either 115 or 125mm rounds......


I agree with you mostly but i think you made one oversight, all mentioned countries are not commited to the war production and send helps from stocks, i really doubt that mentioned democracies will change guns and butter ratio without turmoil, for russia it is easier to sell their people that kind of effort as the accountibility and political system is diametral opposite of liberal democracies.


----------



## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> What kind of view of the people against Russia is in anyway right ? I mean of course in case of war in fear of calling the general population to fight the rich and middle class not all but many try to flee this has been seen many times in history. People think if out of millions of Russian population if 100'000 or 200k people flee means Russians are not in support of war ?
> 
> Let me make this straight the Russian people have questioned the performance of Russian operation for last 2 week failures but they will not let this easily without a fight.
> 
> 
> T55 rounds are still produced. rifled tanks are good against AFV and APC's. Russia if lost is not due to there technology or mobilization it would be internal political defeat not because of decisive war victory.
> 
> 
> This.


Rifle tank round were still in production, but not 100mm. That's WW2 era rounds, the world move on from 100mm 70 years ago, the closest round that still in production is UK L7 105mm rifled round.

On the other hand, you have to look at this war from an angle of structure. Which mean you need to find crack in order to continue prosecuting this war. The crack for Russia in this war is poor leadership and poor logistic, which had displayed time and time again. Both of which would not be solved, in fact, it will probably magnify when you put more people into theater. 

I mean they are all conscript, which mean they are most likely started from a lower rank, then the question is, how did you lead them into battle, are you conscripting Officer as well? (Which is not going to work) or you some how slot them in and expand the rank and file? Which if the leadership stink, it just get stinker, or did you promote people from the current structure? If so, you are stripping at least 1/5 of the current man power to put them in charge with the new conscript.

Not to mention Russia have problem supplying 210,000 troop in the initial phase of the war, and the subsequent troop surge in May, now with the 300,000 conscripts, are we supposed to believe Russia can supply 600,000 in theatre now?



mulj said:


> I agree with you mostly but i think you made one oversight, all mentioned countries are not commited to the war production and send helps from stocks, i really doubt that mentioned democracies will change guns and butter ratio without turmoil, for russia it is easier to sell their people that kind of effort as the accountibility and political system is diametral opposite of liberal democracies.



That's because you failed to realise one thing of all those country, majority of equipment are manufactured by US, UK, France, Germany and Japan. But the most important factor is that each of these countries make their own perishable. Munition, Kits and etc, those are the stuff that is going to out produce Russia. 

Sure, US can send 1000 tanks to Ukraine, then what? If you don't get constant munition and store supply, it's pointless, it's just a tank that can't fire. Now it may be hard to have US or UK or Germany to bump up Tanks production by a thousand, but it's not hard at all for each of these countries would easily bump up the munition production rate without turmoil. 

That's why we have NATO standard, because France or even Greece can produce rounds that US Abrams uses, because they are all in a single standard. That's what dwarf the Russian. Not because US can make more tank than Russia. (Well, they can too but that's beside the point)


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia can deploy more men for war compared to Ukraine can.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> I don't think Russia even enter into War Economy can out produce US


1.85 tillion economy vs 25 trillion economy. 

and you "think" the 1.85 trillion economy cant outproduce the 25 trillion economy. 

I hope you dint have to think too hard about this.


----------



## Primus

aziqbal said:


> World war 3?


Yes. You ready to stock up on supplies and buy a nuclear bunker? Live out the real life Fallout 4 experience. (Trash game btw).


----------



## kankan326

jhungary said:


> First of all, this is an industrial war. And Ukraine is backed by 30 NATO member and then some of the biggest industrial nations on earth, I don't think Russia even enter into War Economy can out produce US, let alone US + Canada + UK + France + Germany + Poland + Japan + Australia and rest of EU.


Don't worry. China's industrial capability is more than these countries combined. China will supply all Russia needs except things directly related to weapons.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> 1.85 tillion economy vs 25 trillion economy.
> 
> and you "think" the 1.85 trillion economy cant outproduce the 25 trillion economy.
> 
> I hope you dint have to think too hard about this.



Russia has more natural resource than the US. More trees. More wood for printing money.


----------



## One_Nation

Primus said:


> Yes. You ready to stock up on supplies and buy a nuclear bunker? Live out the real life Fallout 4 experience. (Trash game btw).


Its not a joke anymore. The world is getting closer to WW3 with a large nuclear power getting cornered and pushed to fight for its existence.

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## jhungary

kankan326 said:


> Don't worry. China's industrial capability is more than these countries combined. China will supply all Russia needs except things directly related to weapons.


Can China out produce US and entire NATO and some non-NATO major allies (Included Japan, Australia, Sweden and Middle East) put together? You have to be either naive or stupid to believe it would.

By the way, there are different between Chinese Shell and Russian shell, if they can tell a Chinese AK from a Russian AK, they can tell a Chinese round and a Russian round.

And what you need to fight a war if "excepts things directly related to weapon?" Again, are China going to send Russia 5000 helmets?? LOL. It's like saying "I will support your war with every effort I got EXCEPT Bullet, Ammo and Guns..."

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## ZeGerman

One_Nation said:


> Its not a joke anymore. The world is getting closer to WW3 with a large nuclear power getting cornered and pushed to fight for its existence.


Ukraine is a sovereign state in danger of annexation. Not russias little plaything/buffer colony. 

russia is under zero threat to its own territory. The moment Putin retreats to pre 2014 lines, the moment this war ends.

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## Primus

One_Nation said:


> Its not a joke anymore. The world is getting closer to WW3 with a large nuclear power getting cornered and pushed to fight for its existence.


Meh


----------



## kankan326

jhungary said:


> Can China out produce US and entire NATO and some non-NATO major allies (Included Japan, Australia, Sweden and Middle East) put together? You have to be either naive or stupid to believe it would.


The answer is yes. China has intact industrial chain. NATO doesn't. China can sustain Russia economy by offering things for daily life and basic industrial materials. If the war scale becomes bigger, for example, NATO army enters Ukraine, China will supply weapons to Russia.

I remember I told you that Russians will bet their country's future on the war. The situation is getting clearer. Russia can not afford to lose the war. And China can not afford to lose Russia either.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572569329622978560


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## jhungary

kankan326 said:


> The answer is yes. China has intact industrial chain. NATO doesn't. China can sustain Russia economy by offering things for daily life and basic industrial materials. If the war scale becomes bigger, for example, NATO army enters Ukraine, China will supply weapons to Russia.
> 
> I remember I told you that Russians will bet their country's future on the war. The situation is getting clearer. Russia can not afford to lose the war. And China can not afford to lose Russia either.


Again, you are supporting Russia war with everything you got, except "Weapon, Guns, and Ammo"........

Dude, do you even know the weapon making capability US and NATO allies have? It's one thing for your "Industrial Base" to make Pizza Oven or Air Conditioner. The collective west out produce in every military article compare to China. From tank to aircraft to ship, PLAN commissioned 35 ships in 2021-22, NATO alone had 67.

Even if China outsource their entire Industrial base to Russia, it will still lag behind the collective west. Just because China can beat any country in NATO 1 on 1 in term of industrial strength does not mean it can beat the entire collective effort. Either you are stupid or being lie to if you think otherwise.

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## RoadAmerica

Wood said:


> Everyone thought that Russia's civil aviation industry will go bust because of sanctions. Putin has once again proved them wrong


It takes time for planes to break down


----------



## jhungary

RoadAmerica said:


> It takes time for planes to break down


Well, seems like their railway website breakdown faster 



Russian Rail Website Crashes After Putin's Mobilization Decree

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## Wood

RoadAmerica said:


> It takes time for planes to break down


Yea, what I meant to say was that the domestic aviation market is still strong. Thanks to all the people who want to flee from Russia

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572563299576975361

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## DF41

kankan326 said:


> The answer is yes. China has intact industrial chain. NATO doesn't. China can sustain Russia economy by offering things for daily life and basic industrial materials. If the war scale becomes bigger, for example, NATO army enters Ukraine, China will supply weapons to Russia.
> 
> I remember I told you that Russians will bet their country's future on the war. The situation is getting clearer. Russia can not afford to lose the war. And China can not afford to lose Russia either.












Make the Ukraine and NATO and Murican Nazis shit and pee in pants even now. 🥁🥁🥁


Xian Y20 already flying into Moscow 😆😆😆🥁🥁🥁

Delivery of Firedragons (range 300KM CEP 1m)

https://www.news9live.com/world/chi...-rocket-launch-system-at-high-altitude-183588






















and Chinese suicide drones by the hundreds of boxes🤔🤔🤔😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🏔️🐲 Get thousands and tens of thousands of Chinese FH-901 suicide drones.
Get a hundred boxes to start with






FH-901 carry 10 times the bang of Switchblade, much longer loitering time and can carry out swarming attacks.

That will make Murican Switchblade look like a switchblade brought to a machine gun fight.

Zelensky and rest of NATO gangsters will crawl 3 times around Red Square and beg forgiveness
Especially as after de nazification of Ukraine, Russia move to denazified NATO as well.




China unveils its own 'switchblade' suicide drone
China has launched its own switchblade cruise missile, what's so magical about the Feihong-901? [Time and frequency of strong national defense] Welcome to subscribe to leave a message. Powerful defense time and frequency, bringing you the latest, most unique and in-depth news information, committed to creating the hottest and most cutting-edge military news! Overview of global military information, inventory of the latest weapons at home and abroad China launches its own "Switchblade" suicide drone, what's so magical about the Feihong 901? == 🥁🥁🥁 Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments-part-2.746450/post-13969268

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## kankan326

jhungary said:


> Again, you are supporting Russia war with everything you got, except "Weapon, Guns, and Ammo"........
> 
> Dude, do you even know the weapon making capability US and NATO allies have? It's one thing for your "Industrial Base" to make Pizza Oven or Air Conditioner. The collective west out produce in every military article compare to China. From tank to aircraft to ship, PLAN commissioned 35 ships in 2021-22, NATO alone had 67.
> 
> Even if China outsource their entire Industrial base to Russia, it will still lag behind the collective west. Just because China can beat any country in NATO 1 on 1 in term of industrial strength does not mean it can beat the entire collective effort. Either you are stupid or being lie to if you think otherwise.


LOL. I don't know where you got the data. I don't believe what you say. China manufacturing accounts 30% of whole world. If deducting construction, mining and considering underestimated RMB exchange rate, it would be 40%. China's human resources in manufacturing is bigger than NATO combined. NATO is an organization. China is a country. NATO can not be as efficient as China.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572514821471608832

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jhungary

kankan326 said:


> LOL. I don't know where you got the data. I don't believe what you say. China manufacturing accounts 30% of whole world. If deducting construction, mining and considering underestimated RMB exchange rate, it would be 40%. China's human resources in industry is bigger than NATO combined. NATO is an organization. China is a country. NATO can not be as efficient as China.


NATO is a collective of country, and I am specifically point out Military Article because such things as NATO standard exist.









NATO Standardization Office - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Effectively, a tank round made in North Macedonia made to NATO standard can be used in an US tank or British tank and vice versa, that's what it meant by NATO standard. The same with Non-NATO major allies such as Australia or Japan.

You don't support someone's war with TV or Washing Machine.

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## kankan326

jhungary said:


> NATO is a collective of country, and I am specifically point out Military Article because such things as NATO standard exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO Standardization Office - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Effectively, a tank round made in North Macedonia made to NATO standard can be used in an US tank or British tank and vice versa, that's what it meant by NATO standard. The same with Non-NATO major allies such as Australia or Japan.
> 
> You don't support someone's war with TV or Washing Machine.


TV and washing machine are essential for a country's stability. Russia just focuses its resources on war, The left leave to Chian. If China can use 30% its industrial capability to support Russia. NATO can use 10% at best. Every NATO member has its own interest. Winter is coming. Germany industry will be paused.

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## jhungary

kankan326 said:


> TV and washing machine are essential for a country's stability. Russia just focus its resources on war, the left leave to Chian. If China can use 30% its industrial capability to support Russia. NATO can use 10% at best. Every NATO member has its own interest. Winter is coming. Germany industry will be paused.


dude, you are funny. 

Sure, send TV and Washing Machine to the Russian, see how much it help their war........

I mean if I don't know better, I would think you were joking.......

And lol, NATO 10% at best? Where did that come from? Your bottom? You do know even if NATO only uses 10% of their capacity, that's still Dwarf Russia by a long mile.......

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572576635492388864


----------



## jhungary

zhxy said:


> What do you think about the comments below?
> 
> _" The Art of War say to never put your enemy in a corner?"
> 
> Russians have repeatedly asked Ukraina and Nato to stop, but the West does not care. Russia has no other options. Russians are completely desperate, they are pressed into the corner, there is no way back. Finally, the Russians choose to fight to death for the future of the country and Slavs race._


That's false narrative, because it's all on Russian hand. They are the one that invade a country, they can get away from the corner just by pulling troop out of Ukraine.

That's not the future of Russia they are fighting for, that's the future of Ukraine, that's why it's the Ukrainian, not the Russian, had the motivation behind this fight. I don't know who I heard this from. But I will quote it here.

"The war will stop when Russian stop fighting, Ukraine will cease to exist when Ukrainian stop fighting" That summed up the reason for war on both sides pretty good.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572568782748680194

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572576011920998404

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572560712555458561

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## dbc

zhxy said:


> What do you think about the comments below?
> 
> _" The Art of War say to never put your enemy in a corner?"
> 
> Russians have repeatedly asked Ukraina and Nato to stop, but the West does not care. Russia has no other options. Russians are completely desperate, they are pressed into the corner, there is no way back. Finally, the Russians choose to fight to death for the future of the country and Slavs race._


Russia isn't in a conner, Putin is... No one is threatening to send troops into Russian territory. Putin is trying desperately to save his political career there is no existential threat to Russia. This hullabaloo about Ukraine's ascension to NATO is a red herring. To become a NATO member all elected representatives from each NATO member country in their respective Senate or Parliament must approve the new member. Finland and Sweden are yet to join NATO since their ascension is yet to be approved by member states particularly Turkey. Do you really think Putin's BFF Viktor Orban the Prime Minister of Hungary would ever allow Ukraine to join NATO?

The Russians aren't fighting to the death for the future of their country. They are being asked to die to preserve Putin's grip on power.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572590558660513793

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572564710314381317

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572390039140573185





ZeGerman said:


> The USA should supply ATACMS so the ukranians can wipe out all russian train nodes and the kerch bridge.
> 
> Good luck with russia to get all those men and material in place, and warm and fed, during winter.



I don't think Ukraine is getting ATACMS. Biden is a responsible leader and he already said he does not want to escalate the war.

However Ukraine might have missiles of there own . . .

In the Novofedorivka air base attack , it seems likely that it was a missile attack by missiles carrying half a tone of explosive :

"The craters visible in satellite photos are 10 meters across, ... And each is consistent with the explosion of at least 500 pounds of C4. No Special Forces team is going to drag a ton of C4 to a target when two ounces would be sufficient to destroy an aircraft"









2022 Novofedorivka explosions - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






Could this be the cause ? :

" Several media outlets discussed the possible use of the Hrim-2, as the distance between the Ukrainian troops and the airfield was more than 200 km. "










Hrim-2 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





This thing has a range of 400–500 km .

So it has the range , but is it accurate enough ?

Judging by the crates made in the Novofedorivka attack , i would say rather accurate , look how they targeted both ends of the airplane storage :









~​


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> look at it this way
> 
> 300,000 men (and women, probably in thousand) between 22 to 30 years old, must now leave their workforce and enter into some sort of training and then send to war in Ukraine. There are a lot of brain drain since the war started and many working ages people left Russia, with this they just thinning out their work force again, you wonder who earn bread in Russia right now?


Yes that’s true, but Putin does not care. His ergo is big. He wants to be like Peter the great.
He has a mission: Russia becomes either a great power or lands in the next trash bin.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572597283782381568


Viet said:


> Yes that’s true, but Putin does not care. His ergo is big. He wants to be like Peter the great.
> He has a mission: Russia becomes either a great power or lands in the next trash bin.



Peter the Great recaptured Saint Petersburg from Sweden during Russia Sweden war.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572605127139246080


----------



## gambit

kankan326 said:


> The answer is yes. China has intact industrial chain. NATO doesn't. China can sustain Russia economy by offering things for daily life and basic industrial materials. If the war scale becomes bigger, for example, NATO army enters Ukraine, China will supply weapons to Russia.
> 
> I remember I told you that Russians will bet their country's future on the war. The situation is getting clearer. Russia can not afford to lose the war. And China can not afford to lose Russia either.


It is essentially too late for China. Too late in the sense that Russia can win with indirect support from China. What you said about economic assistance is indirect support. If ordinary Russians spends less and less because of the war, then all those indirect support become less and less effective. Poutine is shutting down the country which mean the Russian economy will deteriorate and China cannot force Russians to spend money they do not have. Plus, Russians will continue to try to escape Russia and each successful escape mean one less contributor to the Russian economy.

All this mean that now is the time for Chinese direct support to save the war. Not Russia, but the war. That direct support mean sending Chinese arms and have the Parade Line Army (PLA) on standby for deployment to the front. Not either but *AND*. The first Chinese attack must be the Parade Line Army Air Force (PLAAF) to make up for the failures of the VKS.

But...Xi needs the Parade Line Army (PLA) more than Poutine does. Must keep those uniforms spiffy.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572597283782381568
> 
> 
> Peter the Great recaptured Saint Petersburg from Sweden during Russia Sweden war.


Putin is a man of the past. He is like a living bomb, or worse, a suicide bomber.

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## maithil

For all his KGB credentials, Putin has screwed up big time. What miscalculation... Even if he "wins" now, damage has been done.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

If I were a betting man, I bet on Russia. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. That's 4 times the man power.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572619813440176128

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## Hack-Hook

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572597283782381568


Fab-500 the bane of Russian air-force .
2/3rd of their hunted airplane in this war shoot down because of this bomb


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572581496048996354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572581517792260099

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572594181834690560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572574272232783875


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hack-Hook said:


> Fab-500 the bane of Russian air-force .
> 2/3rd of their hunted airplane in this war shoot down because of this bomb



GLONASS guided bombs have range up to 40 km. Sufficient for stand off strikes outside range of air defense.









KAB-500S-E - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572626968667107329


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572568782748680194


If these 300,000 knew the full scope of NATO help to ukraine, I suspect many would have already left for a holiday to Turkey. I wonder how hard it is for them to leave today?


----------



## Wood

The 300K reserve troops will not be sent to battle. They will used as 'special police' for the occupied territories. Regular troops from occupied regions will likely be moved to frontlines


----------



## Hack-Hook

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> GLONASS guided bombs have range up to 40 km. Sufficient for stand off strikes outside range of air defense.


those are KAB, not FAB. the FABS are WW2 Iron Bombs


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> If these 300,000 knew the full scope of NATO help to ukraine, I suspect many would have already left for a holiday to Turkey. I wonder how hard it is for them to leave today?



Biden is too old to help Ukraine. Too old. Too weak. America has a shrinking and aging demographics, unsuitable for war.


----------



## thetutle

Wood said:


> The 300K reserve troops will not be sent to battle. They will used as 'special police' for the occupied territories. Regular troops from occupied regions will likely be moved to frontlines


lol, russia doesnt have a problem policing occupied territories. They have a collapsing front line. There guys are going toe to toe. and we will see massive casualties.


----------



## sammuel

~​Chechens stayed in destroyed Russian commandants office in Luhansk Oblast​

WEDNESDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 2022, 


The Armed Forces of Ukraine destroyed an occupiers' commandant's office in the town of Svatove in Luhansk Oblast on 20 September. According to preliminary information, Chechens stayed there when it was hit.
*Source:* Serhii Haidai, the Head of Luhansk Oblast Military Administration, on Telegram

*Quote: *"According to preliminary information, 250 Russians ended as 200 and 300 [military slang terms; 200 means killed in action, and 300 means wounded - ed.]. Most probably, Chechens stayed in the commandant’s office."

*Details: *Haidai has reported that the information about Chechens is being ascertained.


*Background: *The Head of Luhansk Oblast Military Administration stated that a local commandant’s office was destroyed in Svatove on the morning of 21 September. Occupiers had their headquarters and a weapons storage site there. The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine confirmed this information, too.









Chechens stayed in destroyed Russian commandants office in Luhansk Oblast


WEDNESDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 2022, 13:55 The Armed Forces of Ukraine destroyed an occupiers' commandant's office in the town of Svatove in Luhansk Oblast on 20 September. According to preliminary information, Chechens stayed there when it was hit.




news.yahoo.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572631602693345280


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572622531911356422

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## jhungary

Breaking : Protest in St. Petersburg against Partial Mobilisation

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Putin = modern Mussolini


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572512594262474752

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## merzifonlu

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572622531911356422


However, Armenia did not support the first UN general assembly resolution condemning the invasion of Ukraine. Were they allied with Russia?  It is typical Armenian, no actualy Dahsnak Armenian behavior. (Not all Armenians are so opportunist.) Dagger your weakened ally from behind first. Then pity the victors by pretending to be the victim.


----------



## Viet

Russians on panic mode after Putin announced partial mobilization. Mass exodus out of Russia. One way ticket Moscow to Istanbul: 9,200 euro in economy class. And sold out.
Also, flights to Georgia, Aserbaidschan and Kasachstan sold out. EU has closed doors to Russia.









Teilmobilmachung Russlands: Run auf Flugtickets ins Ausland


Kurz nachdem Putin die Teilmobilmachung verkündet hat, setzt in Russland ein Run auf Flugtickets ins Ausland ein. Was könnte dahinter stecken?




www.zdf.de

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## SIPRA

Scope of war is widening and deepening day by day. It can now take an extremely nasty turn anytime.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572473075542757382

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## Oublious

Russia lost the war, you are asking mobilization from your people means you lost the war. First it was operation and now full scale war.

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## Samurayr

Viet said:


> Russians on panic mode after Putin announced partial mobilization. Mass exodus out of Russia. One way ticket Moscow to Istanbul: 9,200 euro in economy class. And sold out.
> Also, flights to Georgia, Aserbaidschan and Kasachstan sold out. EU has closed doors to Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teilmobilmachung Russlands: Run auf Flugtickets ins Ausland
> 
> 
> Kurz nachdem Putin die Teilmobilmachung verkündet hat, setzt in Russland ein Run auf Flugtickets ins Ausland ein. Was könnte dahinter stecken?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zdf.de


He will soon get a big NATO 🦏 up his butt


----------



## merzifonlu

Oublious said:


> Russia lost the war, you are asking mobilization from your people means you lost the war. First it was operation and now full scale war.


Yes. This shitshow will turn into a "bloody shitshow" in the spring of 2023. Because Putin and his gang will use tactical nuclear weapons.


----------



## Viet

SIPRA said:


> Scope of war is widening and deepening day by day. It can now take an extremely nasty turn anytime.


Wrong. The scope of Russian invasion has not changed: the total extermination of Ukraine as country and people. It’s just Putin’s 3-day war failed.

Now Putin is willing to send 300,000 more Russians into death. After the first wave of 300,000 failed to succeed.

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## Oublious

merzifonlu said:


> Yes. This shitshow will turn into a "bloody shitshow" in the spring of 2023. Because Putin and his gang will use tactical nuclear weapons.




I hope that never happens, China and Turkey sould pressure Russia for peace talks and Western world Ukrain. This is a war of nothing....

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## zectech

Viet said:


> Now Putin and his stooges along with RT threaten with nuclear war if the US delivers long range ammo.





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572473075542757382



Europe needs thousands of nukes.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518501232083718144
And to put Putin on ignore:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569970321838546944

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## merzifonlu

Oublious said:


> I hope that never happens, China and Turkey sould pressure Russia for peace talks and Western world Ukrain. This is a war of nothing....


The terms of peace are simple. a) leave Ukraine unconditionally, b) agree to pay war reparations and start discussing the amount, and c) elect a new president, putting all the blame on Putin.

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## MeFishToo

The number 300.000 doesnt mean anything. Its a full mobilization in the sense that Russia can mobilize who they want and how many they want in order to replace casualties. As long as the russian population play along, Putin is now able to sacrifice huge amounts of human waste on the ukrainian frontlines.

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## SIPRA

Under the circumstances, no negotiations are possible.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572602250601562113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572604629229371395

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572586473064640512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572590736905732097

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572641692020260864


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

One_Nation said:


> Its not a joke anymore. The world is getting closer to WW3 with a large nuclear power getting cornered and pushed to fight for its existence.


The large nuclear power is painting itself into a corner, and trying to shift the blame of this stupidity on everyone else.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572568389645897729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572571094237982720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572590059752402946

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> Russians on panic mode after Putin announced partial mobilization. Mass exodus out of Russia. One way ticket Moscow to Istanbul: 9,200 euro in economy class. And sold out.
> Also, flights to Georgia, Aserbaidschan and Kasachstan sold out. EU has closed doors to Russia.


Well you gan get a one way from Moscow to Istanbul for 1,400 Euro on Tuesday. But they are all sold out until then. Business is 2,800 euro.


----------



## Vergennes

There has been an increase of ambushes against Russian convoys over the last few days by Ukrainian forces,even deep inside russian occupied territories.



Spoiler: graphic





















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572633418780868610

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## zectech

What is ironic is that India has more nukes than Germany has German made nukes. And Pakistan has more nukes than Spanish and Italian made nukes together.

Nobody finds this strange.

USA tolerates NK getting nukes, yet if Poland gets nukes, that is "escalation" or some such vomit.

India "can have 160 nukes". Yet if Germany and the EU get their nukes apart from UNSC permanent members in Europe, it is viewed as bad. India "needs" as many as their foe Pakistan. Europe needs as many nukes as foe Russia.

Would Pakistan tolerate 16 nukes vs Indian 160 nukes. We must never tolerate 10 times less nukes than Russia for Germany and the EU. This is common sense. If Germany gets nuked, would France retaliate for Germany, I doubt this. So Germany would need the same as Russia.

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## thetutle

zectech said:


> What is ironic is that India has more nukes than Germany has German made nukes. And Pakistan has more nukes than Spanish and Italian made nukes together.
> 
> Nobody finds this strange.


I have as many nukes in my personal possession as Germany, Spain and Italy have domestically produced nukes combined.

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> Well you gan get a one way from Moscow to Istanbul for 1,400 Euro on Tuesday. But they are all sold out until then. Business is 2,800 euro.


Putin outsmarts all russians. He signed the decree yesterday which becomes affective the day after. There is no time for anyone to react. Thus the panic. 9,200 euros for one way ticket to Turkey is murderous. I wonder which russian can afford such ticket?


----------



## zectech

thetutle said:


> I have as many nukes in my personal possession as Germany, Spain and Italy have domestically produced nukes combined.



Exactly.

I am aware the number is zero. Comparing that Germany has zero made German nukes compared to hundreds made and owned by Pakistan and India, should be alarming while Germany is threatened by Russia with nuclear annihilation. Has Washington daily reassured Germany that Russia would be nuked out of existence by the US if one nuke is used on Germany - no.

So Germany needs defensive nukes asap. If the globe tolerates Pakistan having nukes in the same number as main foe India and vice-versa, Germany needs thousands of nukes vs main foe Russia.









Trump Brags He Threatened to Not Defend NATO Allies From Russia


The former president said that NATO members were not paying enough to defend themselves.




www.newsweek.com


----------



## thetutle

zectech said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I am aware the number is zero. Comparing that Germany has zero made German nukes compared to hundreds made and owned by Pakistan and India, should be alarming while Germany is threatened by Russia with nuclear annihilation. Has Washington daily reassured Germany that Russia would be nuked out of existence by the US if one nuke is used on Germany - no.
> 
> So Germany needs defensive nukes asap. If the globe tolerates Pakistan having nukes in the same number as main foe India and vice-versa, Germany needs thousands of nukes vs main foe Russia.


I agree, but Pakistan was not defeated and occupied by the collective west in a major war. Noone trusts Germany nor do they allow Germany to have missiles with a range of over 300km. certainly not nukes. 

So germany will have to work on that.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> Putin outsmarts all russians. He signed the decree yesterday which becomes affective the day after. There is no time for anyone to react. Thus the panic. 9,200 euros for one way ticket to Turkey is murderous. I wonder which russian can afford such ticket?


Yeah but its not the price. ive checked on Turkish airlines website. in 1400 euro. Its bad but not that bad.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572668113606545413

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## The SC




----------



## Sifar zero

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572668113606545413


Only reservists are subject to mobilizations and not civilians so this panic is uncalled for.


----------



## MeFishToo

Sifar zero said:


> Only reservists are subject to mobilizations and not civilians so this panic is uncalled for.


All russians aged 18-60 are theoretically reservist, arent they? For now russia is claiming they need specialists and those who have previously served. But who hasnt with 12 months or even more mandatory.
The 300.000 is not mentioned. The russian army can in theory call upon as many as the population will accept.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572673548778340352

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572593737326563332

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## Vergennes

lmao it's going to be a massacre.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572679105480642560

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572624326548922375

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## Reashot Xigwin

Another attempt at bridge laying ended up in failure in kherson

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572563299576975361
To see more Russian Cope here's a substack aptly named Dumb Russia 








Dumb Russia #1


The Ukrainian Counteroffensive




dumbrussia.substack.com

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## Vergennes

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572624326548922375



Of course it won't be the sons and daughters of Russian elites that will be sent to the slaughterhouse nor people of Moscow and St Petersburg but minorities and those from the poorest regions of Russia,those that do not have money to leave the country or corrupt military recruiters.

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## 925boy

alimobin memon said:


> Russia agrees to provide petrol to Pakistan on deferred payments: report
> 
> 
> ISLAMABAD: In a major development, Russia has agreed to provide petrol to Pakistan on deferred payments, Daily Jang reported Tuesday.The development came after Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian petrol to pakistan coming.


i am confused as to why US gov would be ok with its puppet govt in Pakistan getting oil from Russia.

But maybe its to provide affordable energy to the masses so they dont revolt? Pakistan will not receive Russian oil for now.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572287112640344064
Ukraine can stifle Russia's mobilization efforts with saboteurs targeting perennial transport arteries around Moscow hub


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Vergennes said:


> Of course it won't be the sons and daughters of Russian elites that will be sent to the slaughterhouse nor people of Moscow and St Petersburg but minorities and those from the poorest regions of Russia,those that do not have money to leave the country or corrupt military recruiters.


The Collapse of Russia can't come soon enough

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572665542892457985

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## aziqbal

925boy said:


> i am confused as to why US gov would be ok with its puppet govt in Pakistan getting oil from Russia.
> 
> But maybe its to provide affordable energy to the masses so they dont revolt? Pakistan will not receive Russian oil for now.



india and Hungary are still getting oil from Russia


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572683134533251073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572654088080297986

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## Super Falcon

Things are getting messy day by day it as Al about cat and mouse game of who has patience will win thee war

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## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572665542892457985


Winning harts and minds is not a russian strategy. Maybe he left for Ukraine a little sooner than he was pretending to be.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572698717777694720

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## Reashot Xigwin

Super Falcon said:


> Things are getting messy day by day it as Al about cat and mouse game of who has patience will win thee war


It's pretty much already guaranteed that Ukraine will win this war. Right now we all just having fun at Russian expenses.

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## 925boy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine is the most powerfully armed country in Europe.


..because of US and NATO help.


----------



## Super Falcon

Reashot Xigwin said:


> It's pretty much already guaranteed that Ukraine will win this war. Right now we all just having fun at Russian expenses.


Too early to say Russia will use energy shot fall as weapon of blackmailing at the other handit EU get over that energy crisis Russia will loose but Russia will make dead sure that energy crisis hits eu harder

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## Reashot Xigwin

Super Falcon said:


> Too early to say Russia will use energy shot fall as weapon of blackmailing at the other handit EU get over that energy crisis Russia will loose but Russia will make dead sure that energy crisis hits eu harder


The problem with that Europe are rich they can absorb most of the economic damage by switching to other source. Azeri, Qatar, Saudi Arabia even willing to develop African resources extraction.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572218259587616768


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## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> It's pretty much already guaranteed that Ukraine will win this war. Right now we all just having fun at Russian expenses.


I think its becomming alot harder for Ukraine to win, if Russia succeed in deploying tens of thousends new soldiers into the occupied areas before Ukraine are ready to carry out some major assaults.
Hopefully the ukrainians will recieve the heavy equipment, ammo and general support they need to continue their defensive and offensive operation. Never mind the constant nuclear threats from Putin. Just tell him to pull the trigger or shut up.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572706047378219008


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## Reashot Xigwin

MeFishToo said:


> I think its becomming alot harder for Ukraine to win, if Russia succeed in deploying tens of thousends new soldiers into the occupied areas before Ukraine are ready to carry out some major assaults.
> Hopefully the ukrainians will recieve the heavy equipment, ammo and general support they need to continue their defensive and offensive operation. Never mind the constant nuclear threats from Putin. Just tell him to pull the tricker or shut up.


I'm not worried. That just means more confusion, logistical burden and lack of training for the Russian.


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## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I'm not worried. That just means more confusion, logistical burden and lack of training for the Russian.


Yes, but still, they will most probably be used in the rear, allowing Russia to concentrated its capable forces at the front. Not saying Russia is going to take over all of Ukraine. Just saying its going to be much harder for Ukraine to gain ground if Russia is allowed to reinforce the east and south with tens of thousends of soldiers. It doesnt leave the ukrainians many week points to exploite.


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## 925boy

jhungary said:


> NATO is a collective of country, and I am specifically point out Military Article because such things as NATO standard exist.


You keep saying NATO weapons production is high, then why has NATO reached peak point of supplying Ukraine only after 6 month of war? even US has admitted it is starting to dip into its own ammo stocks to supply Ukraine- same for the whole of EU, but you're just here blabbing and misleading people - the Ukraine war shows NATO's ammo and weapons production is at its peak and cant produce more weapons or produce them fast enough for the war Ukraine is in simple! No wonder Ukraine is using US enemy Iran's ammo to fight Russia- obviously Ukraine doenst have enough ammo from NATO countries it has to go use Pakistani or Iranian ammo. Ukraine is a 3rd world banana republic US has now foolishly inherited because of the greed to expand NATO power on Russia's border.

Talk specifics and stop using bogus generalizations you twist their meaning to suit your agenda!

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## Reashot Xigwin

925boy said:


> You keep saying NATO weapons production is high, then why has NATO reached peak point of supplying Ukraine only after 6 month of war? even US has admitted it is starting to dip into its own ammo stocks to supply Ukraine- same for the whole of EU, but you're just here blabbing and misleading people - the Ukraine war shows NATO's ammo and weapons production is at its peak and cant produce more weapons or produce them fast enough for the war Ukraine is in simple! No wonder Ukraine is using US enemy Iran's ammo to fight Russia- obviously Ukraine doenst have enough ammo from NATO countries it has to go use Pakistani or Iranian ammo. Ukraine is a 3rd world banana republic US has now foolishly inherited because of the greed to expand NATO power on Russia's border.
> 
> Talk specifics and stop using bogus generalizations you twist their meaning to suit your agenda!


The US produces around 6000 HIMARS missiles in a year. This is peace time production. Not including all the other toys america produce annually. If congress allow the US can ramp up productions in their existing facility or enlist civilian factories to help. 

The problem is that Russian armed forces are just garbage that's why the US doesn't even take them seriously as a threat anymore. This is not me btw this actual report from the white house.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572700160437764099

Russian losses now exceed 6,300

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The US produces around 6000 HIMARS missiles in a year. This is peace time production. Not including all the other toys america produce annually. If congress allow the US can ramp up productions in their existing facility or enlist civilian factories to help.
> 
> The problem is that Russian armed forces are just garbage that's why the US doesn't even take them seriously as a threat anymore. This is not me btw this actual report from the white house.



HIMARS is crap compared to Iskander.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> HIMARS is crap compared to Iskander.


HIMARS can actually hit something

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> HIMARS can actually hit something



So can every artillery. You need more than hitting something to win a war.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> So can every artillery. You need more than hitting something to win a war.


Children hospitals doesn't count as a target

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## 925boy

dbc said:


> Russia isn't in a conner, Putin is


how so?



dbc said:


> ... No one is threatening to send troops into Russian territory.


whats that relevant to?


dbc said:


> Putin is trying desperately to save his political career there is no existential threat to Russia.


why would he need to save his career when his popularity by polls in Russia is solid, between 60-% - 70%? the math doesnt support your propaganda


dbc said:


> This hullabaloo about Ukraine's ascension to NATO is a red herring.


False- NATO was integrating Ukraine in, Russia interjected it, dont be naive


dbc said:


> To become a NATO member all elected representatives from each NATO member country in their respective Senate or Parliament must approve the new member.


Nope, Ukraine doesnt have that privilege, not while Russia is alive and living.


dbc said:


> Finland and Sweden are yet to join NATO since their ascension is yet to be approved by member states particularly Turkey.


No, its because accession could increase tension/military problems on those countries borders with Russia, stop being naive, again.


dbc said:


> Do you really think Putin's BFF Viktor Orban the Prime Minister of Hungary would ever allow Ukraine to join NATO?


US wanted Ukraine in NATO, stop beating around the bush.


dbc said:


> The Russians aren't fighting to the death for the future of their country.


oh yea? how would you really know? why shoudl we trust you over those who are fighting and dying for what you are telling us on PDF you know about just cuz of your badge? go sit down bro.


dbc said:


> They are being asked to die to preserve Putin's grip on power.


why can you see that but the avg Russian cant? pls i need solid answers and reasoning.



Oublious said:


> Russia lost the war, you are asking mobilization from your people means you lost the war. First it was operation and now full scale war.


how is "mobilization" different from "surge" that US did in Iraq and Afghanistan?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The US produces around 6000 HIMARS missiles in a year. This is peace time production. Not including all the other toys america produce annually. If congress allow the US can ramp up productions in their existing facility or enlist civilian factories to help.
> 
> The problem is that Russian armed forces are just garbage that's why the US doesn't even take them seriously as a threat anymore. This is not me btw this actual report from the white house.



Russia has war time production. Probably twice the number of Tornado-S rockets per year. Tornado-S has much better firepower and range compared to vanilla HIMARS.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572576011920998404

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572721225113407491

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572699759676379136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572691090049728512

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## Reashot Xigwin

To all the brown Russian bootlickers here. This is what the Russian thinks of you 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571727099639263233

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572598504861896705

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572598504861896705



Tornado-S compared to HIMARS is like M14 compared to M16. It punches harder and has better range.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572697584397078529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572711518604775425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572614033114636288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572647309665570816

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## dBSPL

thetutle said:


> If these 300,000 knew the full scope of NATO help to ukraine, I suspect many would have already left for a holiday to Turkey. I wonder how hard it is for them to leave today?


In 2022, Russia is in the first place in the sales of residences to foreigners in TR. Iran citizens are in second place. The easiest way to get permanent residence is to buy real estate.

257 of every thousand houses sold in Antalya are sold to foreigners and the majority of this group consists of the citizens of these two countries. In Istanbul, 112 of every thousand houses are sold to foreigners.

In 2021, approximately 60,000 houses were sold to foreigners. In the first 6 months of this year, this figure is around 35,000.

Russia's money, trade, elites, everything is flowing to Turkiye right now.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572721225113407491

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572691090049728512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572646077731414018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572727343101231105


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

925boy said:


> You keep saying NATO weapons production is high, then why has NATO reached peak point of supplying Ukraine only after 6 month of war? even US has admitted it is starting to dip into its own ammo stocks to supply Ukraine- same for the whole of EU, but you're just here blabbing and misleading people - the Ukraine war shows NATO's ammo and weapons production is at its peak and cant produce more weapons or produce them fast enough for the war Ukraine is in simple! No wonder Ukraine is using US enemy Iran's ammo to fight Russia- obviously Ukraine doenst have enough ammo from NATO countries it has to go use Pakistani or Iranian ammo. Ukraine is a 3rd world banana republic US has now foolishly inherited because of the greed to expand NATO power on Russia's border.
> 
> Talk specifics and stop using bogus generalizations you twist their meaning to suit your agenda!



EU/USA are NOT @ WAR production.

Murricans can build ATM MAXIMUM 28 M1A2C/SEP V3 per month.

That are 2 coys.

Americans estimated to lose vs a near peer (Iran) or peer enemy (Russia/China) 1-2 TCoy(s) a day.

BUT

Murricans have good reserves from a time when they built many more Abrams per year. And these reserves are under a good control, not like in Russia where you can throw 75% into the garbage bin.

To get higher output at the lonely tank plant they would MINIMUM need 2 years, to restart a 2nd plant production, they would need MINIMUM 4 years.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572636388012720128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572597322886033410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572596267989225485

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572578796565565440

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572596697934561280

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572678499571318784
The Turkevi is right across from the UN building, and ironically, the diplomatic intensity of the last two days has been as intense as the Headquarters of the United Nations.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572554789183193088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572553688866230273

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russian patriotism in full display

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572603613524164610

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## dbc

925boy said:


> False- NATO was integrating Ukraine in, Russia interjected it, dont be naive



NATO was integrating Ukraine- what does that even mean? On second thoughts, never mind I'm not interested in Russian fantasies.

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## Reashot Xigwin

dbc said:


> NATO was integrating Ukraine- what does that even mean? On second thoughts, never mind I'm not interested in Russian fantasies.


LOL Ukraine was still pro-russia back then. Russia only invaded because they want to join the EU not NATO


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572596675285483521

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572737402249936896

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572669488620834816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572564850743873537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572564850743873537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572564850743873537

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572557569612447747

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572605039062949892

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572567457541521408

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572530995353759744


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572566352422109184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572545210529488896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572338898461663233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572307501496037377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572274611949285377

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572233716864536578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572468881196736513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572720073747447808

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572659238425563139

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## zectech

This is the imposed British clownness Europe has to face because of the UK.

Spain can't have nukes, Modi can, because of the Spanish Armada.
Denmark can't have nukes because of the Vikings, Modi can.
Italy can't make nukes because the Italians killed Mussolini and Mussolini/Italy wanted to kill Hitler to protect friend Dollfuss from nazis, Modi gets to have nukes though.
Germany can't make nukes because of an Austrian Jewish Painter.
Austria can't have nukes because of the same Austrian Painter.
Romania can't have nukes because of Vlad the Impaler.
Greece can't have nukes because of the Byzantine Empire
Bulgaria can't have nukes because they are not gun-toting, bible-thumping, trumpers who support Putin. "Shame on them" for not being Modites.
Poland can't have nukes because of Warsaw Pact.

Sh*t excuses why EU (x UNSC France) cant make nukes.

Would the US accept bans on the US developing nukes during the cold war because USA was mean to the American Indians and thus should not develop nukes. Would the US accept gales of stupid laughter about having ICBM numbers equal to the Soviets or comparable to the Soviets. No, those holding the US back would be seen as enemy states.









Biden says Putin was 'reckless' in veiled nuclear threat, calls on UN to support Ukraine; 2 Americans captured in war freed: Updates


Russia has "shamelessly" violated core tenants of the United Nations and the world must stand behind Ukraine, President Joe Biden said. Updates.



eu.usatoday.com







https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3654889-putins-elevated-nuclear-risk-over-ukraine-sparks-worry/











All ‘available means’: Putin threatens nuclear escalation, mobilizes Russian reserves


With his war in Ukraine stalled after a series of embarrassing battlefield defeats, Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday issued a veiled threat of nuclear war with the West and ordered the mobilization of up to 300,000 reserve forces in his country’s first major military call-up since...




www.washingtontimes.com





If you are holding back the EU from developing as many nukes as Russia, then we must view you as the Americans viewed those who demanded the US to disarm during the cold war.

Russia wants to nuke the EU. This much is known. MAD works. That is known too.

This British clown-ness is going to get Europe nuked.

Preventing the EU from getting nukes proves the world wars was about the UK holding back Europe from rivaling the UK.









A Manufacturing War Between the UK and Germany in the 19th Century Set the Stage For Today's Trade Crisis


Today, the word “globalism” is on everyone’s’ mind. Some fear a world increasingly dependent on foreign trade. Others worry about domestic industries dying due to over-seas competition. Many are anxious about what a changing economy will mean for their material prospects. Do we allow free trade...




historycollection.com





A Manufacturing War Between the UK and Germany in the 19th Century Set the Stage For Today’s Trade Crisis​*Dariusz Stusowski* - June 5, 2017
Today, the word “globalism” is on everyone’s’ mind. Some fear a world increasingly dependent on foreign trade. Others worry about domestic industries dying due to over-seas competition. Many are anxious about what a changing economy will mean for their material prospects. Do we allow free trade to flourish despite possible negative consequences for some of our industries at home in the hopes that other domestic business will change and grow as the world becomes more interdependent?
Do we tax imports in order to make our own goods and services more competitive? Or perhaps should we retreat, at least a little bit from global trade in order to reverse the trend of interdependence and globalism?
These questions and concerns seem so modern; so current. And indeed they are. However, they are not as modern as they seem. For centuries, politicians, economists and everyday citizens have been asking the same basic questions. Even more importantly, they have been coming up with many of the same solutions, often with disastrous results.




German became known for their engineering and technological breakthroughs as is exemplified by creation of the first automobile. Benz Patent Motor Car – The first automobile (1885-1886). daimler.com
Advertisement

One such misadventure took place in Great Britain, home of the industrial revolution and birthplace of the modern economic world. In the 19th Century, the British were known for their quality manufactured goods. In fact, as far back as the late 1700’s Great Britain was known as the “workshop of the world”. Revolutions in transportation, plentiful human labor, easy access to key raw materials, rapid advancements in technology and engineering combined with a sympathetic government made a perfect recipe for the creation of the first modern economy.
Finished goods from Britain were the best in the world, known for their quality and value. Everything from large items like railroad parts and locomotives to a multitude of smaller items like furniture, mirrors, silverware and linen were sold throughout the world. Even trivial items such as belt buckles, buttons and little ribbons flooded domestic and international markets. This dominance lasted decade after decade. The British were so used to their business superiority that many began to panic when a new competitor began to challenge the dominance of the British economic colossus. What was the name of this culprit? Germany.
Germans were experiencing massive changes as well. For most of history, a unified German state like the one that we know today did not exist. Instead, a series of smaller, regional states collectively made up a German cultural and language area in the middle of Europe. These smaller German countries were usually unable to threaten lager countries like Great Britain or France due to high taxation and general lack of coordination between states.
All this changed radically in 1871. That year, a powerful politician by the name of Otto Von Bismarck succeeded in a final push to unify Germany, creating a massive and powerful new state right in the center of Europe. It was not long before a greater Germany began to flex its business muscle.



Steel manufacturing was just one area in which Germans excelled by the late 19th Century. Essen Krupp Bessemer , circa 1880. University of Oregon
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In the beginning, even before German unification, many of their items were either of poor quality or directly copied by secretly replicating successful British business practices. German industrial spies were cunning and ruthless. Famous businessmen such as steel magnate Alfred Krupp, entered Britain under a false name and immediately began taking notes. He used flattery and behaved as nicely and kindly as possible, winning the trust of his British hosts who happily and proudly showed this kind German man all of their successes.
Krupp himself wrote: “_the proprietor was flattered that two such smart friends should deign to visit his works_.” Germans like Krupp came back from their “study tours” flush stolen information, eager to start competing with their foreign rivals.
The British soon saw German goods flooding markets all around the world, including their own. Many of these items were not just cheaply made, but were mislabeled as well. Some German factories were creating products falsely labeled as made in Great Britain. When it was discovered that Germans were marking scissors, knives and other cutlery as “Sheffield Made”, British businessmen were outraged. Dining ware made in Sheffield was the pride of British manufacturing. A movement began to punish Germans for their shameful theft of industrial ideas and iconic brands.
But there was an even greater, more long-term problem that the British faced when it came to German products. While some German products were poorly-made, or fraudulent, other products were steadily growing in quality. As time went on, many were often as good as or even better than the domestic items that Britons were used to buying.



Even the simplest items like this cake knife were coveted by foreign consumers, due to the high quality of German manufacture. Interestingly, this example possesses a star of David trade stamp. 19th century antique German cake knife from Mann and Federlein , Solingen Company. i offer
Advertisement

The paradoxical combination of good, high-quality German imports as well as mislabeled foreign fakes of German origin prompted British politicians to take action. By 1887 the worry was so great that British lawmakers passed the “Merchandise Marks Act”, which forced manufactured goods to state the country of origin. Clearly, this law was passed in order to protect domestic manufacturers. However, there was an unintended consequence to this action.
Though the bill was supposed to protect against cheap knock-offs, something surprising happened. British consumers already developed a taste for German goods. Once the act was passed, even more Britons than before were aware of the amount of German goods they were actually buying. Even the patriotic impulse to buy domestic goods could not stop the desire to buy increasingly excellent German products. Instead of slowing down the consumption of German products, German exports continued to increase. Slowly but continuously, the manufacturer’s mark “Made in Germany” developed into a mark of quality.
By the early 20th Century, the “Made in Germany” mark was already seen as a powerful and recognizable marketing tool. A newspaper article from the Spectator (of British origin) published a conversation occurring in 1907, in which a British man traveling in Germany had a discussion with a German merchant about trade between their two countries. The German exclaimed:
_“Now look at your Merchandise Marks Act! It didn’t do what was meant… You passed it to protect your industries, but in fact it has protected ours, for …it showed the traders of the world where the goods were really made”_. The same merchant went on to claim that international trade was making Germany so strong that soon there would be a military showdown between to two countries for dominance of the seas, and that the completion may even result in a general war. His remarks are now chilling as war between Britain and Germany as well as many others, broke out just seven years later, with the beginning of WWI.



Germans goods were known for their unrivaled quality and intricacy, as seen with the knife – featuring more than 100 tools including a gun. Daily Mail
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130 years ago, the British demanded a labeling campaign in an attempt to dissuade domestic consumers from buying foreign goods, out of fear that Germans were selling too many products. Similarly, just a generation ago many Americans were terrified of the Japanese and their auto and audio-visual industries. It did not help that by the 1980’s the Japanese were using their profits to invest in U.S. real estate.
Today, trade with places like China is a big source of concern and stress. Just like early German products, Chinese goods are considered cheaper and of lower-quality. And yet, Americans buy these items with a voracious and unyielding appetite. The Chinese are even known for stealing American intellectual property, much in the same way Germans copied and mislabeled their products so long ago.
As a result, some loudly call for restrictions on trade in a variety of ways. But will changes in trade policy stop inappropriate Chinese practices? Perhaps they may. However, the Chinese may shift their focus to higher-quality products, making them irresistible to Americans markets no matter what our policies may be, thusly transforming the Chinese economy into an even more powerful force, as did the Germans.
Just like the government action that led to labeling demands in Britain, artificial trade barriers have an odd way of causing all sorts of unintended consequences. Material desire is far more powerful than the fanciful aspirations of politicians. Perhaps excitable politicians should be careful for what they wish…






The US UK want no rivals. The purpose of trump and putin are to shut down the EU and China.

Putin nuking the EU is a huge shut down of the EU. The nuking of Europe is a net positive for Trump/Putin.









Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin Are Working to Weaken Europe, Official Says


Both Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin have worked to weaken the European Union, one high-level official said.




www.newsweek.com





Junior Partner EU and NATO Europe is to take getting nuked, while daddy USA laughs and does less than nothing to stop it and/or retaliate.

If Russia is threatening Europe with nuclear annihilation and the US/UK refuse to defend from a nuke attack. Each member of NATO and the EU should be allowed to build as many ICBM nukes as Russia has. Or gets the hell out of the way idiots.

If you believe Communist China, Modi and Pakistan get to have nukes, yet Germany does not get to make nukes and ICBMs, you are an enemy of Europe. Russia and China should be kicked off the UNSC and disarmed. Yet Germany is the enemy to imbeciles.

Here are the dime a dozen idiots on twitter:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572264450807459841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571443460531535873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568199527944933378
Putin spending tens of billions on their Russian weapons, barely any tweets about banning that. Germany re-arms and anybody loses their minds. It proves the enemy was always outside of Germany. The the pre-war reason for the world wars was to keep Germany down. Can Japan rearm in the next thousand years against China and Russia. Putin is threatening nuclear annihilation of Europe. "Germans don't have the right to defend themselves because of a Jewish Austrian Painter." Step up to defend Germany from nuclear annihilation or shut up on EU getting nukes.


----------



## jhungary

925boy said:


> You keep saying NATO weapons production is high, then why has NATO reached peak point of supplying Ukraine only after 6 month of war? even US has admitted it is starting to dip into its own ammo stocks to supply Ukraine- same for the whole of EU, but you're just here blabbing and misleading people - the Ukraine war shows NATO's ammo and weapons production is at its peak and cant produce more weapons or produce them fast enough for the war Ukraine is in simple! No wonder Ukraine is using US enemy Iran's ammo to fight Russia- obviously Ukraine doenst have enough ammo from NATO countries it has to go use Pakistani or Iranian ammo. Ukraine is a 3rd world banana republic US has now foolishly inherited because of the greed to expand NATO power on Russia's border.
> 
> Talk specifics and stop using bogus generalizations you twist their meaning to suit your agenda!



Are you really that dense?

NATO were not in any sort of mode to supply Ukraine with any weapon. Now, why that is your guess as best as mine. But just look back at what NATO give to Ukraine, that does not even mean 1% of the entire NATO reserve stock. Unless you call a few HIMARS, Pzh2000, MLRS, M777, a few Poland and Slovikia T-72 and the 28 upgraded M55 and several hundred thousand of assorted portable anti tank weapon are "Significant", and then even those weapon can stop an Russian invasion and make counter offensive.....That's how stupid Russian military were.

Where are the 450 M1 Abrams that the Marine just gave up? Where are the 142 M1128 Mobile Guns Platform the Army just retired this year? How about the M270 the Marine replaced with HIMARS? That's just American, there are alot of goodies like the Leopard 1 Tank from Canada, L2A4 tank from Netherland and Germany in storage, T-72 Poland had in storage? Yeah, Poland send some 100 but they had at least 10 times that.

And it wouldn't take a dumbass to figure out you need to send your stock ammo first, are you really expecting US to increase Ammo making capacity and send those newly make shell to Ukraine, sure, come back in a month time and collect your ammo?? LOL Are you for real?

It also would take a dumbass to figure out NATO does not produce 122 shell or 152 shell that Pakistan and Iran send respectively, those are ex-soviet Ammo, NATO don't produce them AT ALL, even China don't produce them, there aren't a lot of country producing them, majority of those are from Russia, I am sure Ukrainian should ask Russian for ammo for its Soviet Era weapon.

Jesus, just exactly how stupid were you? Most of the stuff you ask it wouldn't take 2 seconds to process to figure out. And yet you still ask them anyway....

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572557569612447747
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572605039062949892
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572567457541521408


Why complaining?
Putin just needs to say to his troops: the war is over, go home, return to families.
Otherwise Ukraine army will continue to fight until they piss off.
About NATO, Russia gets supports from China, Ukraine from the NATO. Win win. Why he doesn’t complain about getting support from China?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572630492796821506

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Why complaining?
> Putin just needs to say to his troops: the war is over, go home, return to families.
> Otherwise Ukraine army will continue to fight until they piss off.
> About NATO, Russia gets supports from China, Ukraine from the NATO. Win win. Why he doesn’t complain about getting support from China?



Russia annex Kherson, Donetsk, Luhansk. Why not? Theses cities were once part of Russian empire.

Besides, war is a good thing. Without war, humanity will become complacent and devolve. War breeds the strong and weeds out the weak. War drives science and technology and innovation. War drives advancement of society.

no war:






war:

Reactions: Like Like:
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## -=virus=-




----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia annex Kherson, Donetsk, Luhansk. Why not? Theses cities were once part of Russian empire.
> 
> Besides, war is a good thing. Without war, humanity will become complacent and devolve. War breeds the strong and weeds out the weak. War drives science and technology and innovation. War drives advancement of society.
> 
> no war:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> war:


Russia is so big, the Russians have more than lands than all countries combined in Europe. I don’t understand why they want to steal more lands from other. For what reason? Making the stolen lands into gulags? Putin instead can spend money and human lives on how to fight global warming.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russia is so big, the Russians have more than lands I don’t understand why they want to steal lands from other. Making the stolen lands into gulags is not ok.



No one ever have enough land, especially historical land. Wars are fought over land. Every day since 200,000 years ago there is war somewhere in the world.


----------



## Battlion25

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572557569612447747
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572605039062949892
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572567457541521408



Dayum.. It looks like Russia is now going to come inside Ukraine with even more forces.. Putin is rallying the Russian civilization. They wanna repeat another WW2 victory scenario in Ukraine. Hence the mobilization will be big in the coming days and weeks imho.. 

Russia realize this is serious and they won't gamble


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572576847287963648


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> No one ever have enough land, especially historical land. Wars are fought over land. Every day since 200,000 years ago there is war somewhere in the world.


Historically russian land belongs to dinosaurs.
Seriously, how will Putin win this war? That’s hopeless from the beginning. Now it’s more hopeless. The best troops are dead or wounded. Best weapons are used off or captured. Money runs out. All major foreign companies pulled out. Europe stops buying.

Sending more hooligans, rapists, fresh young men to die in Ukraine is worthless. I bet Putin will give some primitive rifles because little to nothing is left in inventory.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Historically russian land belongs to dinosaurs.
> Seriously, how will Putin win this war? That’s hopeless from the beginning.



This is the first forever war in human history. It'll never end.

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## 1ndy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> This is the first forever war in human history. It'll never end.


Russia will take China down with it in this forever war.
I won't mind fighting a forever war if we can get rid of stupid people.

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## A.P. Richelieu

zectech said:


> What is ironic is that India has more nukes than Germany has German made nukes. And Pakistan has more nukes than Spanish and Italian made nukes together.
> 
> Nobody finds this strange.
> 
> USA tolerates NK getting nukes, yet if Poland gets nukes, that is "escalation" or some such vomit.
> 
> India "can have 160 nukes". Yet if Germany and the EU get their nukes apart from UNSC permanent members in Europe, it is viewed as bad. India "needs" as many as their foe Pakistan. Europe needs as many nukes as foe Russia.
> 
> Would Pakistan tolerate 16 nukes vs Indian 160 nukes. We must never tolerate 10 times less nukes than Russia for Germany and the EU. This is common sense. If Germany gets nuked, would France retaliate for Germany, I doubt this. So Germany would need the same as Russia.


Read up about the non-proliferation treaty, and you will stop posting things like this.



thetutle said:


> I have as many nukes in my personal possession as Germany, Spain and Italy have domestically produced nukes combined.


Germany, Spain and Italy does not have any nukes because they made that choice.
You are not allowed to have nukes.
Time to ignore.

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## 1ndy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Read up about the non-proliferation treaty, and you will stop posting things like this.


Do you really think internet Russian bots to be any better than their military soldiers?

Can we just put them on block/ignore list and can avoid reading and entertaining them?

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## zectech

Israel is not part of the NFT.

They are nearly worshiped around the globe.









Why is Israel not signing the NPT?


Answer (1 of 6): Since Israel is very close ally to USA, it wants to develop Nuclear weapon in order to be stable in the region. So, US forces Israel not to sign NPT, so that Israel can develop nuclear bombs to threaten it rivals in the region like Iran, Saudi,etc. Under NPT, only P5 countries, ...




www.quora.com





If you are getting threatened with nuclear annihilation by Russia, Germany and Italy can leave the NPT, and piss off the UK and US who refuse to defend them with their US arsenal of nukes if Russia nukes Germany and Italy.

"Oh, no!" "Only UNSC permanent members and a few other approved nations can get nukes, or else UK dies of a heart attack." "Oh, no"

Germany can't get nukes because they are not on the big boyz table with the UK and US, who decides no more nukes as us and uk.









Erdogan says it's unacceptable that Turkey can't have nuclear weapons


Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Wednesday it was unacceptable for nuclear-armed states to forbid Ankara from obtaining its own nuclear weapons, but did not say whether Turkey had plans to obtain them. "Some countries have missiles with nuclear warheads, not one or two. "There is no...




news.yahoo.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572639050414297091

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If I were a betting man, I bet on Russia. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. That's 4 times the man power.


I would like to gamble with you


zectech said:


> Putin spending tens of billions on their Russian weapons, barely any tweets about banning that. Germany re-arms and anybody loses their minds. It proves the enemy was always outside of Germany. The the pre-war reason for the world wars was to keep Germany down. Can Japan rearm in the next thousand years against China and Russia. Putin is threatening nuclear annihilation of Europe. "Germans don't have the right to defend themselves because of a Jewish Austrian Painter." Step up to defend Germany from nuclear annihilation or shut up on EU getting nukes.


please dont insult Germany by falsely claiming hitler was jewish. USA wont allow Germany to get nukes. They have some US built nukes that they cant use without activation codes. 


Battlion25 said:


> Dayum.. It looks like Russia is now going to come inside Ukraine with even more forces.. Putin is rallying the Russian civilization. They wanna repeat another WW2 victory scenario in Ukraine. Hence the mobilization will be big in the coming days and weeks imho..
> 
> Russia realize this is serious and they won't gamble


what happened to the 3 day special operation?


zectech said:


> Germany can't get nukes because they are not on the big boyz table with the UK and US, who decides no more nukes as us and uk.


correct.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> what happened to the 3 day special operation?



1 Putin day = 1,000 years for a commoner like you and me


----------



## zectech

"We permit ourselves the victors of WWII to have nukes. Putin's Russia is allowed to have nukes, as Putin threatens the EU with nukes. Don't question Russia on the UNSC and having nukes. Know your place EU Europeans (xFrance). Germany does not get nukes because that is what has been decided FOR them by the US and UK, victors of WWII"





__





Should More Nations Have Nukes?


There is only one weapon that poses an existential threat to the United States, so why should America want other nations to possess it? The simple answer is that Washington’s nonproliferation policy, which once slowed the spread of nuclear weapons, now looks to be on the verge of collapse.




www.hoover.org





Only "us responsible" US, UK, Ruzzia, France and Communist China should have nukes as "we" decide.

Sheer clownery and buffonery to accept such nonsense.

_Five *nations* (were) permitted (themselves) to have nukes—the U.S., Britain, France, China, and Russia—and the rest were not. _

These are the same clown nations that brought you the Iraq War, Afghan War, Libyan War, Syrian Civil War, and the planned war against Iran. "The 'responsible nations' that can have nukes, the victors of WW2. You obey us, what we decide in the UNSC is international decision that you must obey. Obey no nukes with the NPT too."

This is concurrently as Russia threatens to nuke Germany with Germany needing defensive nukes. So what the US, UK, France, Russia and Chinese Communists say is dog sh*t.

Either protect the EU from being nuked, or else, obviously the EU (x UNSC France) has to look for other defenses from nukes, most importantly the MAD strategy of getting as many nukes as Russia.

Mention Russia needs to give up nukes and you get attacked that Russia would start WWIII to prevent that, defending that Russia deserves nukes being WWII victors. Then mention Germany should get nukes to defend themselves, and the same trolls lose their minds at the mere thought of Germany getting nukes. Since the US is not defending Germany with full arsenal of nukes, and Russia is not disarming their nukes, then Germany/EU needs as many nukes as Russia.

There were two countries that wanted war with Hitler's Germany in 1934, these two nations should be the only nations that get to have nukes, decided by me. Those two nations are Italy and Austria.



thetutle said:


> please dont insult Germany by falsely claiming hitler was jewish.


That was the British press and EU scientists.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

zectech said:


> "We permit ourselves the victors of WWII to have nukes. Putin's Russia is allowed to have nukes, as Putin threatens the EU with nukes. Don't question Russia on the UNSC and having nukes. Know your place EU Europeans (xFrance). Germany does not get nukes because that is what has been decided FOR them by the US and UK, victors of WWII"



I wonder why France is allowed nukes considering France fell after only a few months and did just about nothing for the rest of the war.


----------



## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I wonder why France is allowed nukes considering France fell after only a few months and did just about nothing for the rest of the war.


France forgot to ask for permission.


----------



## zectech

@ZeGerman, Other Germans...

What every Germany should watch... is that for a century, the UK hid UK guilt in the sinking of the Lusitania. This made the British press too.

Watch for a few minutes on how Germany war guilt was manufactured on the Lusitania.

On Lusitania:






On starvation blockade of Germany:






The entire video shows the real culprit of WWI. Meaning the UK was to blame.

This is the basis of why Germany cannot have nukes, which is framing the German war guilt for WWI. If the Germans were right about WWI. That means Versailles was unjust. While Hitler was a Putin figure and a Trump figure. Russia has their own Hitler. US has their own Hitler. This should not disqualify you decades and centuries later from defending yourself with nukes from Russian nuke attack.

What do Russia, UK, US and France have in common. The desire to keep Germany down, militarily, economically and politically. This pre-dates Hitler. UK, France and Russia have been trying to keep Germany down since before WWI. And US entered into this partnership in WWI. WWI was an unjust war waged on Germans. Meaning the Entente were the bad dudes.

UK, France, US, Russia and China are the trolls telling the Germans they should never be allowed nukes to defend/prevent a nuke attack from the Russians with Germany having nukes and keeping the peace for the EU.


----------



## mulj

who would assume year ago that the Turkyie and SA would be main diplomatic hubs for mediation and humanitarian efforts.

great job for prisoner swap and release.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

mulj said:


> who would assume year ago that the Turkyie and SA would be main diplomatic hubs for mediation and humanitarian efforts.
> 
> great job for prisoner swap and release.



LMAO you should look at Russian telegram channels and see what they think of this prisoner swap,it is hilarious. Must be hard for them to see Azov commanders and soldiers being liberated.

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## mulj

Vergennes said:


> LMAO you should look at Russian telegram channels and see what they think of this prisoner swap,it is hilarious. Must be hard for them to see Azov commanders and soldiers being liberated.


who give a **** what they think, most important thing that are people freed by Erdogan diplomacy, huge good will win for Turkyie. 

correct me if i am wrong, are you salty that it was achieved by them or not by some more established and stronger diplomacy?

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## Vergennes

mulj said:


> who give a **** what they think, most important thing that are people freed by Erdogan diplomacy, huge good will win for Turkyie.
> 
> correct me if i am wrong, are you salty that it was achieved by them or not by some more established and stronger diplomacy?



Why should I be salty ? Good for Turkey if they are able to use effective diplomacy to free Ukrainians while major European nations are doing God knows what on this field.

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## mulj

Vergennes said:


> Why should I be salty ? Good for Turkey if they are able to use effective diplomacy to free Ukrainians while major European nations are doing God knows what on this field.


lets hope that this could be sign of ending war despite all obvious odds.

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## Vergennes

"Anatoly Gerashchenko, big boss of the Russian aeronautical industry and former ally of Vladimir Putin died after a fall in a "high rise" staircase. It's true that falling out of the window became boring"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572605987164680193
LMAO


----------



## Viet

New round of sanctions against Russia coming from EU, G7 and NATO in response to Russia partial mobilization.

That will further strangulate Russia.









EU und G7 prüfen neue Sanktionen gegen Russland


Die Europäische Union will neue Sanktionen gegen Russland vorbereiten. Sie sollen sich gegen Personen und Sektoren der russischen Wirtschaft richten, so der EU-Außenbeauftragte Borrell.




www.tagesschau.de

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## jhungary

__





'How to Break Arm' Becomes Top Google Trend as Russians Face Conscription






www.msn.com





lol.....

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## alimobin memon

We the asians, middle easterns, south americans and africans who have seen so much western propanganda shouldnt believe this media crap so easily there was time when taliban was best friend defeating ussr, saddam was villain and many other cases. Right now putin is hitler figure for the west. 

Saying that russians fleeing and trending of breaking arms. This has been case with all countries during wars people try to flee their country to avoid conscription. 

You think all russians are coward?

I have seen these protests or sort of here in pak when cat food was banned only then burgers of dha protested. So most probably higher middle to higher classes are protesting in saint Petersburg

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## aviator_fan

Wood said:


> Everyone thought that Russia's civil aviation industry will go bust because of sanctions. Putin has once again proved them wrong


Aviation industry doesn't shut down immediately so you are not proving anybody wrong...First only the aircraft in the maintenance cycle are impacted for not getting spares. Not every aircraft in Russian fleet was due to for significant maintenance.

Then you have cannibalization of parts. Reduce your flying fleet by half and cannibalize the remaining. That will take more than a year to be felt.

Third, overall air traffic is down any way since there are a limited number of places Russian aircraft can fly to. This stretches the time it will take for it to be felt.

And finally, it doesnt say that flights are on Russian carriers (who can fly to very few places), but flights OUT of Russia. They are not one in the same. There are 30 international carriers still flying there.

And the fortess economy as it comes to aviation specifically is shot. Even the Sukhoi Regional jet has Honeywell avionics and Western Engines. Russians can take trains around their country like its the 40s.

So you have all the right to admire Russia, but choose a different axis of admiration.





__





Loading…






simpleflying.com







aziqbal said:


> Putin has announced mobilization
> 
> This means 300,000 extra troops
> 
> And up to 30 million if needed
> 
> This is Russia, the same nation who defeated Nazi
> 
> Simply huge resources of men + material
> 
> World war 3?


Nazis were fighting a multi-front war vs. all resources focused on Russia front. Their hegemony stretched them too thin. Plus Russia was fighting a militarily defense campaign. Much easier to beat the Germans when they are invading.

Neither holds true here. It has more of a track record of losing on the attacking side (Afghanistan) and Ukraine plus most of the industrialized world is fighting against Russia by proxy.

Material: sure , lets see if they can crank out more of the advanced equipment vs. rely on countries even further behind than them to supply them artillery. 

Unfortunately for Putin, the sort of living in the past confidence and euphoria is the belief that his advisers have been giving him which led to this sort of an incompetent operation. Almost to the incompetence level that you would think that Putin is not former KGB but a current US/British deep operative.

Nobody else would fight this way.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> This is the first forever war in human history. It'll never end.


THere you go again with your forever war. Have you got any historical context beyond the crap you post here and what you learn on this forum? Vietnam/China: not forever warl. Japan/China: not forever war.

Soviet Union (more powerful than Russia) and Afghanistan: NOT a FOREVER War.



zectech said:


> @ZeGerman, Other Germans...
> 
> What every Germany should watch... is that for a century, the UK hid UK guilt in the sinking of the Lusitania. This made the British press too.
> 
> Watch for a few minutes on how Germany war guilt was manufactured on the Lusitania.
> 
> On Lusitania:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On starvation blockade of Germany:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The entire video shows the real culprit of WWI. Meaning the UK was to blame.
> 
> This is the basis of why Germany cannot have nukes, which is framing the German war guilt for WWI. If the Germans were right about WWI. That means Versailles was unjust. While Hitler was a Putin figure and a Trump figure. Russia has their own Hitler. US has their own Hitler. This should not disqualify you decades and centuries later from defending yourself with nukes from Russian nuke attack.
> 
> What do Russia, UK, US and France have in common. The desire to keep Germany down, militarily, economically and politically. This pre-dates Hitler. UK, France and Russia have been trying to keep Germany down since before WWI. And US entered into this partnership in WWI. WWI was an unjust war waged on Germans. Meaning the Entente were the bad dudes.
> 
> UK, France, US, Russia and China are the trolls telling the Germans they should never be allowed nukes to defend/prevent a nuke attack from the Russians with Germany having nukes and keeping the peace for the EU.


Lose your way on this forum again and confused this Russia/Ukraine war thread with 'Lets admire how great UK is' debate? Do you know how you can create your own thread without approval from secret police?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

jhungary said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'How to Break Arm' Becomes Top Google Trend as Russians Face Conscription
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol.....


That will become ugly. You talking about Russia middle class the other day. until yesterday they don’t care. 2/3 Russians support the war. But now thing has changed. Their sons and daughters are sent to Ukraine. Not all will return home alive or in one piece.

Too bad, they are too young to die in a foreign country.

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## Broccoli

Americans snooped around Kalingrad. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572874877421457408


----------



## Viet

Click to Enlarge. Artist's Impression of the Ukrainian drone boat approaching a Russian landing ship outside Sevastopol. By H I Sutton
Ukraine’s New Weapon To Strike Russian Navy In Sevastopol​








Ukraine’s New Weapon To Strike Russian Navy In Sevastopol - Naval News


A previously unreported drone boat, known as a USV (uncrewed surface vessel), appears to have slipped past Russian Navy patrols. The device was found on a beach close to the major Russian Navy base of Sevastopol in Crimea.




www.navalnews.com


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia annex Kherson, Donetsk, Luhansk. Why not? Theses cities were once part of Russian empire.
> 
> Besides, war is a good thing. Without war, humanity will become complacent and devolve. War breeds the strong and weeds out the weak. War drives science and technology and innovation. War drives advancement of society.
> 
> no war:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> war:


So China should surrender to Mongolia because China was part of Mongolian land. Owning something in the past does not entitle somebody to reclaim it.

Military might and execution allow you to reclaim it. If Russia were strong enough it would have had those lands.

Are you thinking because after the dinosaurs, it was Russian land, Ukrainians should just put down their arms and give it up



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> HIMARS is crap compared to Iskander.


How much is the Iskander manufacturer paying you for this? And more importantly what beauty pageant is the Iskander being held back for? Where is it in use at a scale to make an impact

Reactions: Like Like:
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## One_Nation

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I wonder why France is allowed nukes considering France fell after only a few months and did just about nothing for the rest of the war.


This is an indirect way of providing nukes to Germany 😂


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572647574221496320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572893652669829120

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Wood

aviator_fan said:


> Aviation industry doesn't shut down immediately so you are not proving anybody wrong...First only the aircraft in the maintenance cycle are impacted for not getting spares. Not every aircraft in Russian fleet was due to for significant maintenance.
> 
> Then you have cannibalization of parts. Reduce your flying fleet by half and cannibalize the remaining. That will take more than a year to be felt.
> 
> Third, overall air traffic is down any way since there are a limited number of places Russian aircraft can fly to. This stretches the time it will take for it to be felt.
> 
> And finally, it doesnt say that flights are on Russian carriers (who can fly to very few places), but flights OUT of Russia. They are not one in the same. There are 30 international carriers still flying there.
> 
> And the fortess economy as it comes to aviation specifically is shot. Even the Sukhoi Regional jet has Honeywell avionics and Western Engines. Russians can take trains around their country like its the 40s.
> 
> So you have all the right to admire Russia, but choose a different axis of admiration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> simpleflying.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nazis were fighting a multi-front war vs. all resources focused on Russia front. Their hegemony stretched them too thin. Plus Russia was fighting a militarily defense campaign. Much easier to beat the Germans when they are invading.
> 
> Neither holds true here. It has more of a track record of losing on the attacking side (Afghanistan) and Ukraine plus most of the industrialized world is fighting against Russia by proxy.
> 
> Material: sure , lets see if they can crank out more of the advanced equipment vs. rely on countries even further behind than them to supply them artillery.
> 
> Unfortunately for Putin, the sort of living in the past confidence and euphoria is the belief that his advisers have been giving him which led to this sort of an incompetent operation. Almost to the incompetence level that you would think that Putin is not former KGB but a current US/British deep operative.
> 
> Nobody else would fight this way.


Seems like my sarcasm was too subtle. I was referring to people fleeing Russia and the temporary impact that had on domestic aviation market

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572912109612146689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572905704171925506


Broccoli said:


> Americans snooped around Kalingrad.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572874877421457408



Waste of jet fuel and money.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572902569273626629

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572899274828156929


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572883574088671233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572864185079574528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572858310826524672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572845374129291264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572873516147515393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572877644567556097


----------



## dBSPL

Guys, take a little vacation in Antalya and relax. lol

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572710532146409473


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572915970812911617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572919770554441728


----------



## dBSPL

Greek tankers carry over 300 million euros of Russian oil every day. Good job komşi 🤌 You say you're in anti-Russian stance, agree with the sanctions, but who knows that, you developed almost perfect oil transfer system.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572859897791881216

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> New round of sanctions against Russia coming from EU, G7 and NATO in response to Russia partial mobilization.
> 
> That will further strangulate Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU und G7 prüfen neue Sanktionen gegen Russland
> 
> 
> Die Europäische Union will neue Sanktionen gegen Russland vorbereiten. Sie sollen sich gegen Personen und Sektoren der russischen Wirtschaft richten, so der EU-Außenbeauftragte Borrell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de



China has 1.4 billion people. China support more than offsets EU sanction.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## alimobin memon

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572915970812911617
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572919770554441728


Yes I have seen posts people are energetic and applying for the cause of country whether right or wrong but they are supporting Russia. Just because minor chunk is fleeing doesn't mean whole country is against conscription.


----------



## Viet

dBSPL said:


> Greek tankers carry over 300 million euros of Russian oil every day. Good job komşi 🤌 You say you're in anti-Russian stance, agree with the sanctions, but who knows that, you developed almost perfect oil transfer system.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572859897791881216


The Russians rely on Greece for oil smuggling, on Turkey for consumer products smuggling, on China for semiconductor smuggling. Russia economy relies on smugglers. Putin is the mafia boss. Greek tankers transport 55 percent of total russia oil export.

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## A.P. Richelieu

zectech said:


> Israel is not part of the NFT.
> 
> They are nearly worshiped around the globe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is Israel not signing the NPT?
> 
> 
> Answer (1 of 6): Since Israel is very close ally to USA, it wants to develop Nuclear weapon in order to be stable in the region. So, US forces Israel not to sign NPT, so that Israel can develop nuclear bombs to threaten it rivals in the region like Iran, Saudi,etc. Under NPT, only P5 countries, ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.quora.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are getting threatened with nuclear annihilation by Russia, Germany and Italy can leave the NPT, and piss off the UK and US who refuse to defend them with their US arsenal of nukes if Russia nukes Germany and Italy.
> 
> "Oh, no!" "Only UNSC permanent members and a few other approved nations can get nukes, or else UK dies of a heart attack." "Oh, no"
> 
> Germany can't get nukes because they are not on the big boyz table with the UK and US, who decides no more nukes as us and uk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan says it's unacceptable that Turkey can't have nuclear weapons
> 
> 
> Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Wednesday it was unacceptable for nuclear-armed states to forbid Ankara from obtaining its own nuclear weapons, but did not say whether Turkey had plans to obtain them. "Some countries have missiles with nuclear warheads, not one or two. "There is no...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com


As I said, you need to read up on stuff.
One of the requirements of the next generation German fighterbombers is the capability to carry the B61 bombs.
Why do you think German Aircrafts needs to be able to carry nuclear bombs?
Start reading, and stop posting until you understand issues, that is my recommendation.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572895218848133120

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## Vergennes

alimobin memon said:


> Yes I have seen posts people are energetic and applying for the cause of country whether right or wrong but they are supporting Russia. Just because minor chunk is fleeing doesn't mean whole country is against conscription.



They are until they get Himarsed. 

With the so called "mobilization",it's no wonder the US and the west will speed up their military support. Let's wait for those under equipped,under staffed and low morale conscripts how they will feel under constant attack during the winter in the trenches. It's going to be a massacre.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572918194259599361


Vergennes said:


> They are until they get Himarsed.
> 
> With the so called "mobilization",it's no wonder the US and the west will speed up their military support. Let's wait for those under equipped,under staffed and low morale conscripts how they will feel under constant attack during the winter in the trenches. It's going to be a massacre.



The US does not have a war economy like Russia does. Russia is at war. The US is not. The US cannot out manufacture Russia with a slow poke peacetime economy.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572915068429545474


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## Vergennes

gold comedy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572818566021369857

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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> They are until they get Himarsed.
> 
> With the so called "mobilization",it's no wonder the US and the west will speed up their military support. Let's wait for those under equipped,under staffed and low morale conscripts how they will feel under constant attack during the winter in the trenches. It's going to be a massacre.


I hope they increase aid. Especially of airburst anti-personal rockets/rounds for artillery. 

Russians only seem to care about human life when it directly involves them. I guess more russians need to be maimed before Putin will fall out of a window like so many opponents lately.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572924327405707264

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## Viet

Real comedy 

Putin claims his weapon is longer, more modern than the West when declaring partial mobilization.

Anyone notices it? The telephone sets on the right are from 1980s. Russia Lada’s are from same tech. That’s the technology he wants to nuke Ukraine and the NATO.

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## Primus

Viet said:


> Real comedy
> 
> Putin claims his weapon is longer, more modern than the West when declaring partial mobilization.
> 
> Anyone notices it? The telephone sets on the right are from 1980s. Russia Lada’s are from same tech. That’s the technology he wants to nuke Ukraine and the NATO.
> 
> 
> View attachment 881711


You base their military technology off of a phone?

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## alimobin memon

Primus said:


> You base their military technology off of a phone?


Overkill

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572947680023965697

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China has 1.4 billion people. China support more than offsets EU sanction.


Dreaming again?

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## Viet

Primus said:


> You base their military technology off of a phone?


Sort of. My walkman is very powerful.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572962955817369604

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572975784720998404

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572943735348146177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572969458112544770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572881804360572928
If this is what Russia has to send,be afraid indeed. @F-22Raptor @ZeGerman @Broccoli @jhungary


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572963998563241984

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> That will become ugly. You talking about Russia middle class the other day. until yesterday they don’t care. 2/3 Russians support the war. But now thing has changed. Their sons and daughters are sent to Ukraine. Not all will return home alive or in one piece.
> 
> Too bad, they are too young to die in a foreign country.


lol, that's what a friend of mine in Russia said.

He said he talked to a Pro-War neighbor, and his neighbor started panicking after hearing the partial mobilisation and he started to ask my friend how their family can get out of Russia because he know my friend has connection outside Russia. My friend ask him why does he start panicking when he is supporting the war, and now is where he can really put his money where his mouth is. At this point I should say his son just completed the mandatory service 2 years ago 

I thought partial mobilisation wouldn't make much resistance in Russia but you can still see how people react to that. Now imagine it's a Full Mobilisation.....Again, war is fun and game until they started asking you your son and daughter to fill the rank.......because you know things aren't going great if they did that.

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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> We the asians, middle easterns, south americans and africans who have seen so much western propanganda shouldnt believe this media crap so easily there was time when taliban was best friend defeating ussr, saddam was villain and many other cases. Right now putin is hitler figure for the west.
> 
> Saying that russians fleeing and trending of breaking arms. This has been case with all countries during wars people try to flee their country to avoid conscription.
> 
> You think all russians are coward?
> 
> I have seen these protests or sort of here in pak when cat food was banned only then burgers of dha protested. So most probably higher middle to higher classes are protesting in saint Petersburg


It's not about who's breaking their arms and who's buying their ticket out of Russia. This is about general attitude regarding this war.

First of all, have you ever wondered why Russia only mobilise 300,000 troops, why not 500,000, why not 1,000,000? They have around 3 million people they can mobilise in this scope, everyone had military experience within the last 4 years, why only 300,000? That's because 300,000 is roughly the entirety of the Russian troop in Ukraine right now. Mobilising 300,000 troop would not change anything, they are just going to rotate the existing troop in Ukraine, which means they are just providing a different set of punching bags in Ukraine. Which mean sometime down the road, they will ask for more.

That mean for them to do this, they are not winning as much as they claim, people is start asking question why because most people aren't stupid, you said you were winning, then why you need to mobilise, and when you start wondering if they are lying to you on this, you start wondering what else were they lying to you about. And that's when things get personal.

War is fun to watch on TV but as a person who actually fought in 2. I can tell you fighting a war is nothing but fun. And when you start realise they are lying to you about this, now what can they lie to you that more concerning to you? That is the impact.

as for whether or not Russian support the war, sure, we have idiots aboard support this war on Russia, so you can guarantee that there are Russian within Russia who support this war and being energized to fight, but then those people are mostly in the lower class and living in rural area, middle class can think and that's what they are doing, and Russia have a lot of middle class than they have grassroot.

A dictatorship and citizen who think does not really go hand in hand together.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572975587702239233

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Another shock to Putin from the CA. No Ozbek, Kazakh, Kirgiz etc. will enroll. 10 year prison term for the ones who join in this war....


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572969458112544770


This is really sad to see. These guys look lost. will they be a cohesive unit that will defeat the NATO supplied and integrated Ukranian army, or will they be like the army before them that since February had lost 30% of its fighting force through casualties.

I think we know the answer to this.

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## Vergennes

thetutle said:


> This is really sad to see. These guys look lost. will they be a cohesive unit that will defeat the NATO supplied and integrated Ukranian army, or will they be like the army before them that since February had lost 30% of its fighting force through casualties.
> 
> I think we know the answer to this.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572988254005198849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572948739446243328

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## 925boy

dBSPL said:


> In 2022, Russia is in the first place in the sales of residences to foreigners in TR. Iran citizens are in second place. The easiest way to get permanent residence is to buy real estate.
> 
> 257 of every thousand houses sold in Antalya are sold to foreigners and the majority of this group consists of the citizens of these two countries. In Istanbul, 112 of every thousand houses are sold to foreigners.
> 
> In 2021, approximately 60,000 houses were sold to foreigners. In the first 6 months of this year, this figure is around 35,000.
> 
> Russia's money, trade, elites, everything is flowing to Turkiye right now.


all the money from Russia and Iran are flowing into Turkey now mainly because prices in Turkey today are DIRT CHEAP for wealthy citizens from other countries, seriously.

if Turkey's economy was healthy today, Turkey wouldnt allow all these foreign purchases.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572996851791691776

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## Primus

Viet said:


> Sort of. My walkman is very powerful.


Bruh with a capital B


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572988881766842368


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573010586241228805


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573004926351183873


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572842492919222272


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572989084569673735

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572974109914501121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572972959861714945


----------



## Broccoli

Russians lost Ka-52 and mi-8 lost in less than 12 hours. good going.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572972541693542401

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573020535621324801

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## Primus

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572989084569673735
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572974109914501121
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572972959861714945


Bro wtf is that music. Pirates of the carribean followed by DooM 2016 Damnation OST

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## aziqbal

925boy said:


> all the money from Russia and Iran are flowing into Turkey now mainly because prices in Turkey today are DIRT CHEAP for wealthy citizens from other countries, seriously.
> 
> if Turkey's economy was healthy today, Turkey wouldnt allow all these foreign purchases.



US makes it money off the por$ industry and exploiting its women and looting other nations and here you are taking the moral high ground on what is right and wrong money for Turkey to take?

please sit down Turkey should never lose a dollar because of these stupid "ethics" 

Turkey should do what benefits Turkey

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## Viet

Putin seems willing to go to overdrive. Now they talking of recruiting one million men and women from the reserve.

Sergei Shoigu , Russia’s defense minister and personal friend of Putin, says Russia has 25 millions in reserves.

That’s not special ops.

That’s all out war.

I am afraid, Zelinskki is right. He says Putin wants to drown Ukraine by blood.










Russlands Verteidigungsminister: 300 000 Reservisten gegen Ukraine


Russlands Verteidigungsminister Sergej Schoigu zufolge sollen 300 000 Reservisten gegen die Ukraine mobilisiert werden. Eingesetzt werden sollten bei der von...




www.sueddeutsche.de

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572975250828050434


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572954056968077315

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573015274055426048

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## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573043234112241665

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573033476978253832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573040155002564608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573040161218301953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573021261340766208


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573043124389253120


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573001228400967683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573001235938312194

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572987125943140353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572991353847709697


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573043124389253120



Brutal deaths, should have been sleeping in their own beds back in Russia

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572985756284493831


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572978159716388866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572979462311903232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572973885796261892

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572973899846926348

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572953866009776130


----------



## The SC

Referendums on joining Russia begin in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, as well as the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions..

@soldier2017kg


Medvedev:

Russian strategic nuclear weapons could lead to hypersonic attacks on the United States and Europe..

@soldier2017kg

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573045480455798784

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573056208365563905


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572902787180277760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572945742666285056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572938850938519553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572937425705394176

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573047726345953281

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572897086475046912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572988238465204226

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572988582066888705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572899952229060608

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572900518393163776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572881916113854466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572893806520942594

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## zectech

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573084546731737088
Somebody figured out the game.

The EU is planned to burn down economically, politically, militarily.

NATO US is not going to defend Europe.

And US (Trump, Barr, Pompeo, cia) and Russia (Putin, fsb) are working together to destroy Europe.

Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU​








Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède


Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède




www.theguardian.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572949594711130113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572524875201544193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572500660935077893
BREAKING: The European division of Russia's oldest tour operator Intourist started offering winter tour packages to Russia for the EU citizens. Package includes: unlimited hot showers, daily visits to Sandunovskaya Banya, and a heated room with electricity.
@fabushka

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## Wood




----------



## Clutch

Viet said:


> Putin seems willing to go to overdrive. Now they talking of recruiting one million men and women from the reserve.
> 
> Sergei Shoigu , Russia’s defense minister and personal friend of Putin, says Russia has 25 millions in reserves.
> 
> That’s not special ops.
> 
> That’s all out war.
> 
> I am afraid, Zelinskki is right. He says Putin wants to drown Ukraine by blood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russlands Verteidigungsminister: 300 000 Reservisten gegen Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russlands Verteidigungsminister Sergej Schoigu zufolge sollen 300 000 Reservisten gegen die Ukraine mobilisiert werden. Eingesetzt werden sollten bei der von...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sueddeutsche.de



Putin n should really just deploy nukes over Ukraine. There is no way the rest of the world will confront Russia for a total nuclear war. It's just the same as the Americans did to Japan. For world peace you need to drop a few. It's a necessary burden. 

Nuke Ukraine for World peace. ☮️ 
Just like Japan in WWII

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573024943364767746

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573088486659432448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573103491702456321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573009406622679042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573003128374689792

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572979446914637825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572979449100120066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572979449100120066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572979454795735041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572979454795735041

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## Wood

Seems like mobilization is only happening in ethnic minority regions for now

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## Han Patriot

Clutch said:


> Putin n should really just deploy nukes over Ukraine. There is no way the rest of the world will confront Russia for a total nuclear war. It's just the same as the Americans did to Japan. For world peace you need to drop a few. It's a necessary burden.
> 
> Nuke Ukraine for World peace. ☮️
> Just like Japan in WWII


That's the last resort man. Once Kherson, Zaprohye, Lugansk and Donestk are officially incorporated into Russia, any NATO attack is an attack on Russian soil.

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## khansaheeb

Clutch said:


> Putin n should really just deploy nukes over Ukraine. There is no way the rest of the world will confront Russia for a total nuclear war. It's just the same as the Americans did to Japan. For world peace you need to drop a few. It's a necessary burden.
> 
> Nuke Ukraine for World peace. ☮️
> Just like Japan in WWII




It's unbelievable but Russia might do a Hiroshima on Kiev, wtf, the world needs to stop this craziness and not sit around spectating. All countries must put pressure on NATO/Ukraine and Russia to stop this madness and sit down at the negotiating table and settle for a ceasefire and cessation of hostilities. 








Analysis: As Russia raises nuclear specter in Ukraine, China looks the other way


When Russian President Vladimir Putin met with Chinese leader Xi Jinping in Uzbekistan last week, the mood was noticeably different from their triumphant meeting in Beijing, weeks before Russia's invasion of Ukraine.




www.cnn.com




As Russia raises nuclear specter in Ukraine, China looks the other way​


Analysis by Nectar Gan, CNN
Published 10:46 PM EDT, Thu September 22, 2022







Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit in Samarkand, Uzbekistan, on Sept. 16, 2022.
Sergei Bobylev/Pool/Sputnik/AP
*Editor’s Note: A version of this story appeared in CNN’s Meanwhile in China newsletter, a three-times-a-week update exploring what you need to know about the country’s rise and how it impacts the world. **Sign up here.*
CNN — 
When Russian President Vladimir Putin met with Chinese leader Xi Jinping in Uzbekistan last week, the mood was noticeably different from their triumphant meeting in Beijing, weeks before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
There was no more touting of their “no-limits” friendship declared on the opening day of the Winter Olympics. Instead, Putin conceded that Beijing had “questions and concerns” about his faltering invasion, in a subtle nod to the limits of China’s backing and the growing asymmetry in their relationship.
In the Chinese readout of the meeting, Xi did not even refer to the much-heralded “strategic partnership” between Beijing and Moscow, observed Shi Yinhong, an international relations professor at Renmin University in Beijing. It was “the most prudent, or most low-key statement in years” issued by Xi on their strategic relationship, Shi said.
The shift in tone is unsurprising given Russia’s string of humiliating defeats on the battlefield, which has exposed Putin’s weakness to his friends and enemies alike. Those setbacks come at a bad time for Xi, too, who is only weeks away from seeking a norm-breaking third term at a key political meeting.
Under Xi, China has forged ever closer ties with Russia. Already facing domestic woes from a slowing economy and his unrelenting zero-Covid policy, Xi needed a projection of strength, not vulnerability, in his personally endorsed strategic alliance.
Six days later, in a desperate escalation of the devastating war, Putin announced a “partial mobilization” of Russian citizens in a televised speech, and even raised the specter of using nuclear weapons.
It is not known if Putin discussed his planned escalation with Xi during their latest talks, just as it remains an open question whether Putin had told Xi about his planned invasion the last time they met in Beijing.
To some Chinese analysts, Putin’s setbacks and escalation of the war offered China an opportunity to tilt away from Russia – a subtle shift that began with Xi’s meeting with Putin.
“China has no other choice except (to) stay away somewhat further from Putin because of his war escalation, his aggression and annexation, and his renewed threat of nuclear war,” said Shi with Renmin University.
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“China has not wanted this unheeding friend (to) fight. What may be his fate in the battlefield is not a business manageable at all by China.”
But others are more skeptical. Putin’s open admission of Beijing’s misgivings doesn’t necessarily signal a rift between the two diplomatic allies; instead, it could be a way for China to gain some diplomatic wiggle room, especially given how its tacit support for Russia has damaged Beijing’s image in Europe, said Theresa Fallon, director of the Centre for Russia Europe Asia Studies in Brussels.
“My impression was that Beijing just wanted a little sliver of daylight between China and Russia, but I think many have over interpreted that,” she said. “I think that was more for a European audience.”
“For China’s long-term interests, they’ve got to keep Russia on board,” Fallon added.
The two authoritarian powers are strategically aligned in their attempt to counterbalance the West. Both leaders share a deep suspicion and hostility toward the United States, which they believe is bent on holding China and Russia down. They also share a vision for a new world order – one that better accommodates their nations’ interests and is no longer dominated by the West.
Days after the meeting between Xi and Putin, Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev and China’s top diplomat Yang Jiechi held security talks in the southern Chinese province of Fujian, vowing to “implement the consensus” reached by their leaders, deepen their strategic coordination and further military cooperation.
The two countries are also looking to deepen economic ties, with bilateral trade expected to reach $200 billion “in the near future,” according to Putin.
“I don’t think we saw a major schism open up between Russia and China,” said Brian Hart, a fellow with the China Power Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
“I see this as a continuation of China trying to walk its pretty thin line on Russia and to make sure that it is continuing to support Russia to the extent that it can without infringing on its own interests.”
So far, Beijing has carefully avoided actions that would violate Western sanctions, such as providing direct military aid to Moscow. But it has presented a lifeline for the battered Russian economy by stepping up purchases of its fuel and energy – at a bargain price. China’s imports of Russian coal in August rose by 57% from the same period last year, hitting a five-year high; its crude oil imports also surged 28% from a year earlier.
After Putin called up army reservists to join the war in Ukraine, Beijing has continued to walk the fine line, reiterating its long-held stance for dialogue to resolve the conflict.
“We call on the relevant parties to achieve a ceasefire through dialogue and negotiation, and find a solution that accommodates the legitimate security concerns of all parties as soon as possible,” China’s foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin told a news briefing Wednesday.
Also on Wednesday, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi met Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York.
According to the Chinese readout, Wang stressed that China would continue to “maintain its objective and impartial position” and “push for peace negotiations” on the issue of Ukraine.
But that “impartial position” was given away in the prime evening newscast on China’s state broadcaster CCTV, the most-watched news program in China.
After a terse report on Putin’s “partial mobilization” – without any mention of the protests in Russia or international condemnations, the program cited an international observer laying the blame squarely on the US for “continuing to stoke the conflict between Russia and Ukraine.”
“The conflict between Russia and Ukraine should be resolved through dialogues. But the US keeps supplying Ukraine with weapons, which makes it impossible to end the conflict, and making the situation worse,” a former national defense adviser in Timor-Leste was shown as saying.
“The sanctions sparked by the conflict have repercussions across the globe…The oil prices in Timor-Leste have also gone up a lot. We, too, are suffering the consequences.”
The main factor driving the strategic alignment between Russia and China is the perception of threats from the United States, said Hart with CSIS.
“As long as that variable remains constant, as long as Beijing continues to worry about the United States, I think it will continue to strengthen ties with Russia.”

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> It's unbelievable but Russia might do a Hiroshima on Kiev, wtf, the world needs to stop this craziness and not sit around spectating. All countries must put pressure on NATO/Ukraine and Russia to stop this madness and sit down at the negotiating table and settle for a ceasefire and cessation of hostilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: As Russia raises nuclear specter in Ukraine, China looks the other way
> 
> 
> When Russian President Vladimir Putin met with Chinese leader Xi Jinping in Uzbekistan last week, the mood was noticeably different from their triumphant meeting in Beijing, weeks before Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Russia raises nuclear specter in Ukraine, China looks the other way​
> 
> 
> Analysis by Nectar Gan, CNN
> Published 10:46 PM EDT, Thu September 22, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit in Samarkand, Uzbekistan, on Sept. 16, 2022.
> Sergei Bobylev/Pool/Sputnik/AP
> *Editor’s Note: A version of this story appeared in CNN’s Meanwhile in China newsletter, a three-times-a-week update exploring what you need to know about the country’s rise and how it impacts the world. **Sign up here.*
> CNN —
> When Russian President Vladimir Putin met with Chinese leader Xi Jinping in Uzbekistan last week, the mood was noticeably different from their triumphant meeting in Beijing, weeks before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
> There was no more touting of their “no-limits” friendship declared on the opening day of the Winter Olympics. Instead, Putin conceded that Beijing had “questions and concerns” about his faltering invasion, in a subtle nod to the limits of China’s backing and the growing asymmetry in their relationship.
> In the Chinese readout of the meeting, Xi did not even refer to the much-heralded “strategic partnership” between Beijing and Moscow, observed Shi Yinhong, an international relations professor at Renmin University in Beijing. It was “the most prudent, or most low-key statement in years” issued by Xi on their strategic relationship, Shi said.
> The shift in tone is unsurprising given Russia’s string of humiliating defeats on the battlefield, which has exposed Putin’s weakness to his friends and enemies alike. Those setbacks come at a bad time for Xi, too, who is only weeks away from seeking a norm-breaking third term at a key political meeting.
> Under Xi, China has forged ever closer ties with Russia. Already facing domestic woes from a slowing economy and his unrelenting zero-Covid policy, Xi needed a projection of strength, not vulnerability, in his personally endorsed strategic alliance.
> Six days later, in a desperate escalation of the devastating war, Putin announced a “partial mobilization” of Russian citizens in a televised speech, and even raised the specter of using nuclear weapons.
> It is not known if Putin discussed his planned escalation with Xi during their latest talks, just as it remains an open question whether Putin had told Xi about his planned invasion the last time they met in Beijing.
> To some Chinese analysts, Putin’s setbacks and escalation of the war offered China an opportunity to tilt away from Russia – a subtle shift that began with Xi’s meeting with Putin.
> “China has no other choice except (to) stay away somewhat further from Putin because of his war escalation, his aggression and annexation, and his renewed threat of nuclear war,” said Shi with Renmin University.
> Enter your email to subscribe to the CNN Five Things Newsletter.
> close dialog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You give us five minutes, we’ll give you five things you must know for the day.
> 
> 
> Sign Me Up
> By subscribing you agree to our
> privacy policy.
> “China has not wanted this unheeding friend (to) fight. What may be his fate in the battlefield is not a business manageable at all by China.”
> But others are more skeptical. Putin’s open admission of Beijing’s misgivings doesn’t necessarily signal a rift between the two diplomatic allies; instead, it could be a way for China to gain some diplomatic wiggle room, especially given how its tacit support for Russia has damaged Beijing’s image in Europe, said Theresa Fallon, director of the Centre for Russia Europe Asia Studies in Brussels.
> “My impression was that Beijing just wanted a little sliver of daylight between China and Russia, but I think many have over interpreted that,” she said. “I think that was more for a European audience.”
> “For China’s long-term interests, they’ve got to keep Russia on board,” Fallon added.
> The two authoritarian powers are strategically aligned in their attempt to counterbalance the West. Both leaders share a deep suspicion and hostility toward the United States, which they believe is bent on holding China and Russia down. They also share a vision for a new world order – one that better accommodates their nations’ interests and is no longer dominated by the West.
> Days after the meeting between Xi and Putin, Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev and China’s top diplomat Yang Jiechi held security talks in the southern Chinese province of Fujian, vowing to “implement the consensus” reached by their leaders, deepen their strategic coordination and further military cooperation.
> The two countries are also looking to deepen economic ties, with bilateral trade expected to reach $200 billion “in the near future,” according to Putin.
> “I don’t think we saw a major schism open up between Russia and China,” said Brian Hart, a fellow with the China Power Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
> “I see this as a continuation of China trying to walk its pretty thin line on Russia and to make sure that it is continuing to support Russia to the extent that it can without infringing on its own interests.”
> So far, Beijing has carefully avoided actions that would violate Western sanctions, such as providing direct military aid to Moscow. But it has presented a lifeline for the battered Russian economy by stepping up purchases of its fuel and energy – at a bargain price. China’s imports of Russian coal in August rose by 57% from the same period last year, hitting a five-year high; its crude oil imports also surged 28% from a year earlier.
> After Putin called up army reservists to join the war in Ukraine, Beijing has continued to walk the fine line, reiterating its long-held stance for dialogue to resolve the conflict.
> “We call on the relevant parties to achieve a ceasefire through dialogue and negotiation, and find a solution that accommodates the legitimate security concerns of all parties as soon as possible,” China’s foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin told a news briefing Wednesday.
> Also on Wednesday, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi met Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York.
> According to the Chinese readout, Wang stressed that China would continue to “maintain its objective and impartial position” and “push for peace negotiations” on the issue of Ukraine.
> But that “impartial position” was given away in the prime evening newscast on China’s state broadcaster CCTV, the most-watched news program in China.
> After a terse report on Putin’s “partial mobilization” – without any mention of the protests in Russia or international condemnations, the program cited an international observer laying the blame squarely on the US for “continuing to stoke the conflict between Russia and Ukraine.”
> “The conflict between Russia and Ukraine should be resolved through dialogues. But the US keeps supplying Ukraine with weapons, which makes it impossible to end the conflict, and making the situation worse,” a former national defense adviser in Timor-Leste was shown as saying.
> “The sanctions sparked by the conflict have repercussions across the globe…The oil prices in Timor-Leste have also gone up a lot. We, too, are suffering the consequences.”
> The main factor driving the strategic alignment between Russia and China is the perception of threats from the United States, said Hart with CSIS.
> “As long as that variable remains constant, as long as Beijing continues to worry about the United States, I think it will continue to strengthen ties with Russia.”



Russians have had enough of Anglo bullying in the past 100 years. Enough is enough. Like Germans, Italians, Japanese, this time Russians fight back against Anglo bullying.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

According to this Turkish defense analyst, Mete Yarar, Putin is psychologically fully capable to use nukes albeit tactical. He won't accept another Western victory no matter what the cost is. Hopefully, Russia will keep the Eastern part, and Zelensky would claim no new lands lost during his term. It's the last win-win situation before it gets strategic for all the tactical options are now exhausted, thanks to the West's supply of all types of smart munitions under the sun that are decimating the Russian forces to an extent that the "mobilization" word has to be used by her since WW2....

*Not having nukes is no option.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> According to this Turkish defense analyst, Mete Yarar, Putin is psychologically fully capable to use nukes albeit tactical. He won't accept another Western victory no matter what the cost is. Hopefully, Russia will keep the Eastern part, and Zelensky would claim no new lands lost during his term. It's the last win-win situation before it gets strategic for all the tactical options are now exhausted, thanks to the West's supply of all types of smart munitions under the sun that are decimating the Russian forces to an extent that the "mobilization" word has to be used by her since WW2....
> 
> *Not having nukes is no option.



Anglos planned to genocide Russians. Don't blame Putin if he nukes Kiev.

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## Oldman1

zartosht said:


> LOL.. More clownish america stronkkkkk CNN rhetoric.
> 
> no fly zone... as if its fuckin libya.
> 
> Lets play the scenario down. USAF Planes warn Russian planes to leave the area. Russians tell you to pound sand, and put their nuclear forces on high alert.
> 
> do you think any american general/politician is going to have the balls to fire on an enemy that literally has the firepower to erase you from the planet, and turn your entire territory into uninahbitable glass?
> 
> Get this ridiculous delusion out of your low iq american skulls...... London, paris, washing dc, and NY would eat several nuclear warheads before a single inch of Russian territory is ceded to NATO, or any "no fly zone" is imposed on the Russian border...
> 
> " a no fly zone" is a declaration of war. The only reason why NATO has gotten away with it before, is because they have used it on weak and defenseless countries.


LOL! You think the Russians are the only ones with nukes? Guess what, who is the one keep screaming who will be using nukes especially when supplying weaponry to Ukraine and doesn't do crap? Where were the nukes or judgement day when Ukrainians hit Crimea? Where were the nukes when the Ukrainians hit actual Russian soil?

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> lol, that's what a friend of mine in Russia said.
> 
> He said he talked to a Pro-War neighbor, and his neighbor started panicking after hearing the partial mobilisation and he started to ask my friend how their family can get out of Russia because he know my friend has connection outside Russia. My friend ask him why does he start panicking when he is supporting the war, and now is where he can really put his money where his mouth is. At this point I should say his son just completed the mandatory service 2 years ago
> 
> I thought partial mobilisation wouldn't make much resistance in Russia but you can still see how people react to that. Now imagine it's a Full Mobilisation.....Again, war is fun and game until they started asking you your son and daughter to fill the rank.......because you know things aren't going great if they did that.


Partial mobilization was suppose to not get the populace riled up. I'm seeing mostly minorities or from distant lands outside of Moscow being called up instead. Pretty interesting. And many who are not very young or not knowledgeable on military or have never done mandatory service.


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## Oldman1

@jhungary 

By any chance are the mobilize troops will be sent into Ukraine prior to winter or after winter with either few weeks of training or months?

It be interesting to see how the Russian forces currently in Ukraine react, many who were eager to get out with their contracts ending in 3 or 6 months soon prior to winter and maybe even waiting for rotation but now have their contracts extended indefinitely. Anyways With 150k Russian troops along with 300k more coming in if that happens with those numbers, the U.S. and other countries to step up to provide the firepower and ammo needed to kill around 500,000 Russian troops as they come in whether before or after winter.

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## Viet

Clutch said:


> Putin n should really just deploy nukes over Ukraine. There is no way the rest of the world will confront Russia for a total nuclear war. It's just the same as the Americans did to Japan. For world peace you need to drop a few. It's a necessary burden.
> 
> Nuke Ukraine for World peace. ☮️
> Just like Japan in WWII


Putin can nuke himself for world peace.



Han Patriot said:


> That's the last resort man. Once Kherson, Zaprohye, Lugansk and Donestk are officially incorporated into Russia, any NATO attack is an attack on Russian soil.


We will see. You seriously think Ukraine will be deterred? Ukraine bombed Crimea, Ukraine bombed Russia cities, still no nukes flying around. NATO will deliver weapons however not intervene in Ukraine.

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## Oldman1

Clutch said:


> Putin n should really just deploy nukes over Ukraine. There is no way the rest of the world will confront Russia for a total nuclear war. It's just the same as the Americans did to Japan. For world peace you need to drop a few. It's a necessary burden.
> 
> Nuke Ukraine for World peace. ☮️
> Just like Japan in WWII


Sure deploy nukes in Ukraine, hopefully some will fall into Ukrainian hands and make up for giving them up in the first place.

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Sure deploy nukes in Ukraine, hopefully some will fall into Ukrainian hands and make up for giving them up in the first place.


I would not be surprised when Ukraine is developing nukes in secret. Ukraine once possessed thousand nukes. And by the way building nukes is not difficult for Ukraine, and for most industrial countries. Ukraine has nuclear plants, those plants generate lot of high grade uranium, and most importantly: plutonium. Just hundred kilograms plutonium then Moscow, St. Petersburg and more cities would turn into nuclear ashes.

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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> I would not be surprised when Ukraine is developing nukes in secret. Ukraine once possessed thousand nukes. building nukes is not difficult for Ukraine, and for most industrial countries.


Wouldn't be surprised about it. In the near future they can.


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## alimobin memon

Oldman1 said:


> Wouldn't be surprised about it. In the near future they can.


Most probably they already have it and only would announce when its worst case. Since they are getting weapons from NATO, I think the supply from NATO could be due to the reason that NATO doesnt want ukraine to declare and use nukes. 

Very drama style scenario but there is no harm speculating the, "WHAT IF?...."

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Wouldn't be surprised about it. In the near future they can.


Putin with his stooges Lavrov, Medwedew, Peskow, Shoigu are hooligans. They will resort to everything, every means to achieve their goals: killing, raping, deportation, destroying civil infrastructure. No country in Europe will feel safe.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Partial mobilization was suppose to not get the populace riled up. I'm seeing mostly minorities or from distant lands outside of Moscow being called up instead. Pretty interesting. And many who are not very young or not knowledgeable on military or have never done mandatory service.



These folks have no relatives in Ukraine and they are also more brutal because of Mongol ancestry. A lot of western Russians have relatives in Ukraine and they are not as brutal as Asian Russians. That's why far eastern Russians are more combat effective in Ukraine.

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## Viet

North Korea is bad, but the Russians top the list of babarians.

North Korea officially declares on Wednesday:
“We never deliver weapons or ammo to Russia and have no intention to do in the future”.









Weitere Staaten wenden sich von Russland ab – „Nicht einmal Nordkorea will sich mit dem Kerl sehen lassen?“


Die Türkei spielt für Russland eine wichtige Rolle. Nun distanziert sich die Regierung von Putin. Selbst eine Diktatur in Asien achtet darauf, die Distanz zu wahren.




app.handelsblatt.com


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Putin with his stooges Lavrov, Medwedew, Peskow, Shoigu are hooligans. They will resort to everything, every means to achieve their goals: killing, raping, deportation, destroying civil infrastructure. No country in Europe will feel safe.



If Western Europeans didn't want war, then they shouldn't have orchestrated Euro Maidan riots in 2014 during Sochi olympics. What goes around comes around.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Partial mobilization was suppose to not get the populace riled up. I'm seeing mostly minorities or from distant lands outside of Moscow being called up instead. Pretty interesting. And many who are not very young or not knowledgeable on military or have never done mandatory service.


That's because most ethics Russian, especially the middle cast can and would avoid draft by either going aboard or go to University. Most middle class have nothing to do with military and will not be drafted in mobilisation, that's very much done to avoid dissent, but still, you can see how people don't like this idea of being turned into cannon fodder, that's because that's what they are going to do.

Think about it, you are demob from a 1 year mandatory service, which in itself is not much to go on already, because half of that time you are going to do training and the other half doing what you were doing in the Army. Then you leave, and 2 or 3 or 4 years later, you are called back to partake on an active war with the enemy you are facing have been to real training and has been blooded by the war already. Now, that's 300,000 of whatever you call that into the fray, what can they do? 

As I explained before (Not sure if that's to you or to other member) it take US Army 10-13 weeks to finish basic training, then 26 weeks of AIT to become an infantryman, and if you want to participate in combine arms drill, that alone will cost you 1 year, that's 1.5 on a 4 to 8 years contract. Now you are brining in people who did 1 year of service before and didn't do jack squat until being call up again. There are virtually zero chance that those 300,000 were call into any offensive operation. They would most likely be just standing guard and try to look good in occupied territories, which mostly will be looking at the other end of HIMARS or M270....

Poor soul.......

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> I would not be surprised when Ukraine is developing nukes in secret. Ukraine once possessed thousand nukes. And by the way building nukes is not difficult for Ukraine, and for most industrial countries. Ukraine has nuclear plants, those plants generate lot of high grade uranium, and most importantly: plutonium. Just hundred kilograms plutonium then Moscow, St. Petersburg and more cities would turn into nuclear ashes.



If Ukraine nukes Russia then China nukes Ukraine. Let's go.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> By any chance are the mobilize troops will be sent into Ukraine prior to winter or after winter with either few weeks of training or months?
> 
> It be interesting to see how the Russian forces currently in Ukraine react, many who were eager to get out with their contracts ending in 3 or 6 months soon prior to winter and maybe even waiting for rotation but now have their contracts extended indefinitely. Anyways With 150k Russian troops along with 300k more coming in if that happens with those numbers, the U.S. and other countries to step up to provide the firepower and ammo needed to kill around 500,000 Russian troops as they come in whether before or after winter.



not sure, but inwter is coming in 6 weeks, that's minimal time to get ready, if these 300,000 were US Army National Guard, then yeah, there are 4 weeks course just for that, but then National Guard have around 2 months of service every year they are in the reserve, those people probably haven't even touch a weapon or have any refresher in tactics ever since they were demobbed. that is if they have them when they serve that 1 year mandatory service to begin with. 

That 300,000 troop are not going to do much, pretty much I can be sure the Russian is going to use them as replacement to give the soldier already in the frontline some breathing space and rotate them out, it would be quite stupid to put that 300,000 in any offensive capability. It will just be slaughter, But then you never know what Putin would do.

I don't think this will change much in Ukraine, probably strengthen the Russian line for a bit, well, they did get 300,000 worth of recruit. But those are mostly going to be light infantry, lightly trained and unlikely to be motivated. They would be even worse than the Iraqi troop we encountered in Desert Storm.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The conscripts are not that combat effective. They are used for guarding the rear. The volunteers are enthusiastic and are combat effective. They are used for offensive ops.

3rd Corps, Chechens, Cossacks are used for offensive.









3rd Army Corps (Russia) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If Ukraine nukes Russia then China nukes Ukraine. Let's go.


Very possible
Chinese hate Ukraine, Nato, the West.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Very possible
> Chinese hate Ukraine, Nato, the West.



China seeks revenge for 100 years of Anglo bullying. Anglos invaded China in war and annexed Hong Kong.


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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China seeks revenge for 100 years of Anglo bullying. Anglos invaded China in war and annexed Hong Kong.


Why not revenge against the russians? They took Manchuria. If the US didn’t jump in the russians probably took more lands from China.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Why not revenge against the russians? They took Manchuria.



China and Russia agreed the river is the border. Natural border makes sense.









Amur - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China and Russia agreed the river is the border. Natural border makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amur - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


chinese should feel lucky that they able kept large swathes of lands. Other smaller countries can’t do that. Russians don’t make anything useful for civilization. do you see anything in your daily life “made in Russia”?, putting oil and gas aside? their “business model” is enlarging territory and selling natural resources to make the livings.

Even in selling oil they rely on Greece, because Russia lacks of tankers and storage facilities.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> chinese should feel lucky that they able kept large swathes of lands. Other smaller countries can’t do that. Russians don’t make anything useful for civilization. do you see anything in your daily life “made in Russia”?, putting oil and gas aside? their “business model” is enlarging territory and selling natural resources to make the livings.



Some people prefer a simple lifestyle. The West may produce and produce. But everything comes with a cost. In the end, global warming will kill off humanity. Too much greed is not necessarily a good thing.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Some people prefer a simple lifestyle. The West may produce and produce. But everything comes with a cost. In the end, global warming will kill off humanity. Too much greed is not necessarily a good thing.


Global warming will kill off the poor. Rich countries can build higher walls. The Dutch will build higher flood barricades. Europe suffer from inflation, high energy bills, weakened economy, lower living standard. Russia is finished. The only winners are US and China. The rest is losers.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Partial mobilization was suppose to not get the populace riled up. I'm seeing mostly minorities or from distant lands outside of Moscow being called up instead. Pretty interesting. And many who are not very young or not knowledgeable on military or have never done mandatory service.


It wouldn't change anything even after the referendum, do bear in mind Ukraine have soldier in EVERY Oblast Russia want to annex, so what Russia can do about them when they are already in "Russian Land" I know, threaten to use nuke on Kyiv. 

There are absolutely nothing going to change that, in fact, annexing those Oblast by force will only start more insurgency activities in those Oblast and pretty much Russia. Russian is stupid enough to hand out Russian Citizenship like candy to the Occupied Oblast, that's going to create a large base of insurgency in Russia by now. That's why it takes years to get exit visa for Afghan to America, we don't know who's actual Afghan want out and who's Taliban agent, it takes time to dig into people background..

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## Trango Towers

Why does Ukraine still have functioning airports and airbase? 
Why are electricity power plants operational?
Why are railways and roads functional?
Why is the infrastructure still working?
Remember how the west even attacked hospitals and sanitation in Iraq.

There is something not right in this war

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Global warming will kill off the poor. Rich countries can build higher walls. The Dutch will build higher flood barricades. Europe suffer from inflation, high energy bills, weakened economy, lower living standard. Russia is finished. The only winners are US and China. The rest is losers.



Hahaha. Well. At least you know the real winners are the Americans and Chinese. But we will support the Russians no matter what, if they fall, we are next. We know it and they know it. US will never let us rise peacefully, their aim is global hegemony and domination and natatd cheerleaders here are cheering for it.

EUROPE will now be officially relegated to the status of US puppy. Russia will be weakened but through Chinese importation of resources cs and tech infusion, they can remain relevant.

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## jhungary

Trango Towers said:


> Why does Ukraine still have functioning airports and airbase?
> Why are electricity power plants operational?
> Why are railways and roads functional?
> Why is the infrastructure still working?
> Remember how the west even attacked hospitals and sanitation in Iraq.
> 
> There is something not right in this war


Why does Russia need to call up 300,000 reserves? If you can answer this question, it can probably answer yours.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Global warming will kill off the poor. Rich countries can build higher walls. The Dutch will build higher flood barricades. Europe suffer from inflation, high energy bills, weakened economy, lower living standard. Russia is finished. The only winners are US and China. The rest is losers.


I don't see how China getting to take care of a failed state like Russia is going to benefit them, sure, cheap Oil and Gas is good, but that is going up to a point, and that point would have been way pass the 450 billion dollars oil and gas industry Russia had before the war (now worth a lot less), otherwise, everything is only a one way traffic, from China to Russia. And you can't do business with that. 

Probably the only thing I can really think of is China probably will get all the Russian P0rn star, which most of them previously work in EU. I mean, think about it, where can these P0rn star goes? EU has now closes the door to them, Japan also do not welcome Russian, you can't shoot p0rn in Middle Eastern Country so Turkey is out. Which mean these girl are going to either Georgia or China, I am expecting a lot of Russian p0rn coming out of China the next year....

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## ZeGerman

Trango Towers said:


> Why does Ukraine still have functioning airports and airbase?
> Why are electricity power plants operational?
> Why are railways and roads functional?
> Why is the infrastructure still working?
> Remember how the west even attacked hospitals and sanitation in Iraq.
> 
> There is something not right in this war







__





Loading…






academiccommons.columbia.edu














WHO records 100th attack on health care in Ukraine


A grim milestone has been crossed today in the war in Ukraine – more than 100 attacks on health care verified by WHO since the start of the war on 24 February. The attacks so far have claimed 73 lives and injured 51.Of the current total of 103 attacks, 89 have impacted health facilities and 13...




www.who.int





**** off with your propaganda. 
Russia bombed 10 times the health facilities and you are trying to paint them as being “kind/soft” here….

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## alimobin memon

jhungary said:


> Why does Russia need to call up 300,000 reserves? If you can answer this question, it can probably answer yours.


If I may, they will most probably be initially stationed at borders near ukraine. Regulars will go fight. just one way to think about it.


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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> If I may, they will most probably be initially stationed at borders near ukraine. Regulars will go fight. just one way to think about it.


The thing is, there are no more "Regular" they are all committed to battle.

You may think Russia have a very big military, but their combatant troop is only around 300,000 strong, the rest are 400,000 National Guard (like Border Guard in Ukraine) and around 200,000 Internal Security Troop, which really are a bunch of Riot Police. Both of them aren't really geared for military operation.

You are basically replacing National Guard with Conscript, that does not make the National Guard suddenly trained and suitable for war. That's the reason why they failed the invasion in the first place and why they are asking for conscript now. Putting another group of untrained amateurs is not changing the matrix any bit...

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## alimobin memon

ZeGerman said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> academiccommons.columbia.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHO records 100th attack on health care in Ukraine
> 
> 
> A grim milestone has been crossed today in the war in Ukraine – more than 100 attacks on health care verified by WHO since the start of the war on 24 February. The attacks so far have claimed 73 lives and injured 51.Of the current total of 103 attacks, 89 have impacted health facilities and 13...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.who.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **** off with your propaganda.
> Russia bombed 10 times the health facilities and you are trying to paint them as being “kind/soft” here….


If anyone thinks these Russians, Ukrainians and neighbors are innocent then they are dumb. I do believe Russia will get upper hand or will be no more regional power as publicized, but they are surely ruthless. I remember one book of some colonel or maybe sergeant or platoon level commander equivalent, don't exactly remember the rank. Where he told that after defeat of Nazis in 1945. "He and his soldiers saw a young girl maybe minor in age of 13 to 15 and said, "was raped by us and we kept laughing". He regrets it years later in his book or memoir.









‘The Russian soldiers raped every German female from eight to 80’


Antony Beevor, author of the acclaimed new book about the fall of Berlin, on a massive war crime committed by the victorious Red Army




www.theguardian.com




Read this too.

I agree with what you said they are no innocents.



jhungary said:


> The thing is, there are no more "Regular" they are all committed to battle.
> 
> You may think Russia have a very big military, but their combatant troop is only around 300,000 strong, the rest are 400,000 National Guard (like Border Guard in Ukraine) and around 200,000 Internal Security Troop, which really are a bunch of Riot Police. Both of them aren't really geared for military operation.
> 
> You are basically replacing National Guard with Conscript, that does not make the National Guard suddenly trained and suitable for war. That's the reason why they failed the invasion in the first place and why they are asking for conscript now. Putting another group of untrained amateurs is not changing the matrix any bit...


Yes they are not trained but seems like Russia is in hurry or desperate right now.


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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> If anyone thinks these Russians, Ukrainians and neighbors are innocent then they are dumb. I do believe Russia will get upper hand or will be no more regional power as publicized, but they are surely ruthless. I remember one book of some colonel or maybe sergeant or platoon level commander equivalent, don't exactly remember the rank. Where he told that after defeat of Nazis in 1945. "He and his soldiers saw a young girl maybe minor in age of 13 to 15 and said, "was raped by us and we kept laughing". He regrets it years later in his book or memoir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘The Russian soldiers raped every German female from eight to 80’
> 
> 
> Antony Beevor, author of the acclaimed new book about the fall of Berlin, on a massive war crime committed by the victorious Red Army
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read this too.
> 
> I agree with what you said they are no innocents.
> 
> 
> Yes they are not trained but seems like Russia is in hurry or desperate right now.


That's the problem, you don't win war in a hurry or being desperate. Russia should really think of instead of calling 300,000 up and hope and pray that they can keep the momentum going, they should just vacate and try to consolidate and defend their gain selectively, that is what a well trained army do. 

If you are already losing, and you still want to keep every part of occupied territories, it will ALWAYS be going to end up losing all of them.....and that is tried and tested theory with more than 5000 years of warfare to back up....

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## alimobin memon

jhungary said:


> That's the problem, you don't win war in a hurry or being desperate. Russia should really think of instead of calling 300,000 up and hope and pray that they can keep the momentum going, they should just vacate and try to consolidate and defend their gain selectively, that is what a well trained army do.
> 
> If you are already losing, and you still want to keep every part of occupied territories, it will ALWAYS be going to end up losing all of them.....and that is tried and tested theory with more than 5000 years of warfare to back up....


Either they will win big or loss all. That is true.

If the lose then they will lose big because, the image of mighty Russia feared by her enemies will totally be vanished. Hence, more issues by NATO directly either taking the advantage of handicapped Russia.


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## Vergennes

alimobin memon said:


> If I may, they will most probably be initially stationed at borders near ukraine. Regulars will go fight. just one way to think about it.




As I said once people think Russia only deployed a small percentage of their army when they actually committed 85% of their available BTGs and deployed additionnal ones to replace those that were out of combat. Russian ground forces "only" number 280 to 300K personnels,a great part of them being conscripts. (And that number even might be inflated,read the thread I posted about corruption in the Russian army. )

Calling "300k" (even that number might be inflated given even Russian military telegram reports there aren't enough rifles let alone tanks,armored vehicles,artillery,who will supervise them on the field?) reservists is a desperate measure to try to hide the catastrophic situation of the Russian army on the field.

Many mobilized probably never had a military training in the first place,are already dead drunk and will be sent in the trenches in frozen winter with little to no clothes and in soviet relicas like T55s,no body armor and ww2 steel helmets,many poorly motivated and most importantely poorly led,how do you think this will end ? In a disaster,exactly.

Ukraine on the other hand will receive even more western weapons (soon US lend lease) and doesn't lack motivated men. Ukrainians would rather die than live under Russian occupation. Those drunkards Russia's sending isn't to renew offensives or to capture entire Ukrainian territories,but only to hold those which are currently occupied and under constant Ukrainian pressure.

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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> equivalent Either they will win big or loss all. That is true.
> 
> If the lose then they will lose big because, the image of mighty Russia feared by her enemies will totally be vanished. Hence, more issues by NATO directly either taking the advantage of handicapped Russia.


If this is the point where you draw if Russia win or lose, then they have lost already. Because since when since the start of the war did the Russian shown their mighty side and should be feared by her enemies? Nobody really took Russian Armed Force seriously since maybe May. And now with Putin publicly come out and say he needed 300,000 to plug the gap is basically a equivalent to publicly declare they had lost the battle since the invasion....

The image of Russian Armed Force being formidable is long gone. And I don't think throwing 300,000 troop in this would have change it.

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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Depends on what type of Tactical Nuclear Weapon the Russian uses.
> 
> If this is sub-kilotons, most likely NATO will be seriously condemning such attack, likely to intervene directly somehow (like enforcing a no fly zone), unlikely to send troop to Ukraine.
> 
> If this is multiple kilo tons of tactical nuclear weapon (below 20kt) Then most likely NATO will directly intervene, possible troop on the ground or peacekeeper, this is most likely ends the conflict for Russia. This is because if Putin uses kiloton Tactical Nuke, anything east of the Dnieper River would have blown toward Poland, and that would trigger Article 5. And depends on Russian response, they may escalate or they may call it a day. Also, if they use 20kt device East of the Dnieper River, more than likely the Radioactive Fall out and radioactive matter will blown back toward Russia.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia using Sub Kiloton nuclear weapon is low, because there are a lot of ways to deal more damage in Ukraine than using them, using them is more of a statement rather than actual usage, it won't change the situation on the ground, in fact, even using 20kt weapon won't change the balance, as it can at most take out a single city. You will need 5 or 6 or even 10 to change the situation, if you use ten 20 kiloton nuclear weapon, that's starting a global thermonuclear war.


And if they are several 100kt bombs? Will US like to endanger its own land?


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> I don't see how China getting to take care of a failed state like Russia is going to benefit them, sure, cheap Oil and Gas is good, but that is going up to a point, and that point would have been way pass the 450 billion dollars oil and gas industry Russia had before the war (now worth a lot less), otherwise, everything is only a one way traffic, from China to Russia. And you can't do business with that.
> 
> Probably the only thing I can really think of is China probably will get all the Russian P0rn star, which most of them previously work in EU. I mean, think about it, where can these P0rn star goes? EU has now closes the door to them, Japan also do not welcome Russian, you can't shoot p0rn in Middle Eastern Country so Turkey is out. Which mean these girl are going to either Georgia or China, I am expecting a lot of Russian p0rn coming out of China the next year....


In the first week when the invasion began, I made the joke, Russia would become a chinese colony, Putin to knee from Moscow to Beijing to ask for money.
Putin can’t defy military and economic logics.
common russians are now in panic. They realize Putin wants general mobilization. Shoigu says Russia has 25 millions reservists.


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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> And if they are several 100kt bombs? Will US like to endanger its own land?


First of all, Russia is next to Ukraine, if Russia drop several 100kt bomb, Russia is *GOING TO ENDANGER THEIR OWN LAND* first. Given Moscow is around 400km from Kharkiv, that's more than well into the danger zone if the bomb were dropped anywhere between Middle to Eastern part of Ukraine.

Second. If several 100kt bomb is used, and they are using it in the West Ukraine (like Kyiv and Lviv and so on), it is going to blow over to Poland and Romania. I don't see how Poland and Romania will not trigger article 5 on this and bring NATO into a collective defence.

So no, there will NOT be several 100kt bomb drop on Ukraine, either you burn yourself, or you burn Poland and bring NATO into it. At most if nuclear weapon were use, it will be low yield as in less than 20kt. Which probably can take out a city, which is not going to sway the battlefield, and there is a chance NATO and US will get involved.

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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> First of all, Russia is next to Ukraine, if Russia drop several 100kt bomb, Russia is *GOING TO ENDANGER THEIR OWN LAND* first. Given Moscow is around 400km from Kharkiv, that's more than well into the danger zone if the bomb were dropped anywhere between Middle to Eastern part of Ukraine.
> 
> Second. If several 100kt bomb is used, and they are using it in the West Ukraine (like Kyiv and Lviv and so on), it is going to blow over to Poland and Romania. I don't see how Poland and Romania will not trigger article 5 on this and bring NATO into a collective defence.
> 
> So no, there will NOT be several 100kt bomb drop on Ukraine, either you burn yourself, or you burn Poland and bring NATO into it. At most if nuclear weapon were use, it will be low yield as in less than 20kt. Which probably can take out a city, which is not going to sway the battlefield, and there is a chance NATO and US will get involved.


You are assuming Putin to remain rational... I am finding that assumption being challenged. The worst crimes are done out of cowardice.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> In the first week when the invasion began, I made the joke, Russia would become a chinese colony, Putin to knee from Moscow to Beijing to ask for money.
> Putin can’t defy military and economic logics.


I remember, and I don't think that's a joke because I have been saying the same thing.

We have a saying in the Military, "You don't reinforce your lost" and this is what Putin is doing right now. Yes, what Putin is doing is defying Military Logic, he should cut the loss and divert his meager resource to where they can hold out. Sending 300,000 men won't solve anything.



HydraChess said:


> You are assuming Putin to remain rational... I am finding that assumption being challenged. The worst crimes are done out of cowardice.


I am assuming the Chain of Russian command remain rational, Putin cannot order a nuclear strike until the Minister of Defence and the Chief of Russian Military approved. I don't know about Shoigu, Gerasimov is a traditional military man, he knows better than to do that, because if nuke was launch, one way or another, there are no way Russia can win. Gerasimov knows that.


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> I remember, and I don't think that's a joke because I have been saying the same thing.
> 
> We have a saying in the Military, "You don't reinforce your lost" and this is what Putin is doing right now. Yes, what Putin is doing is defying Military Logic, he should cut the loss and divert his meager resource to where they can hold out. Sending 300,000 men won't solve anything.


As I said, rationality is out of window. He should have remained content with Crimea and consolidated it. 

This also makes any country taking russians as refugees think twice... Russia can attack anywhere with russian population by the weird logic he is using.



jhungary said:


> I am assuming the Chain of Russian command remain rational, Putin cannot order a nuclear strike until the Minister of Defence and the Chief of Military approved. I don't know about Shoigu, Gerasimov is a traditional military man, he knows better than to do that, because if nuke was launch, one way or another, there are no way Russia can win. Gerasimov knows that.


How hard will it be to remove Gerasimov?


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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> As I said, rationality is out of window. He should have remained content with Crimea and consolidated it.
> 
> This also makes any country taking russians as refugees think twice... Russia can attack anywhere with russian population by the weird logic he is using.



I don't know, if Russian pull back everything and concentrate on Crimea, that itself would be a problem. Crimea is hard to take, but it depends on outside resources. if Russian got pushed back all the way to Crimea, then it mean the electricity and water will be cut, and put Kerch Bridge under range of Ukrainian Artillery, if that bridge was down, then you basically going to starve the entire garrison in Crimea. 

If the Russia cannot hold the land bridge, there are no way Russia can hold Crimea.



HydraChess said:


> How hard will it be to remove Gerasimov?


Unless you want the Russian Military to revolt...it's very hard. 

You don't get to be Chief of Russian Military (or whatever his title is, I forgot the actual name) without serious connection to Russian Military, removing him most likely ended with a bloody coup. I don't see Gerasimov going willingly......

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL China throwing Russia off the bus





This is what chinese "no limit" friendship all amounts to

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL China throwing Russia off the bus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what chinese "no limit" friendship all amounts to


That because whatever you want to say about the Chinese, they are very smart businessman. They can smell a pile of shit from a mile away and avoid it. 

Russia is increasingly turn into North Korea and Venezuela, but in a scale that probably more than the both of them combine. And Russia is basically depending on the Chinese to bail them out. But then would China spend trillions of their hard earn dollars to bail out the Russian is another issue...


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> I remember, and I don't think that's a joke because I have been saying the same thing.
> 
> We have a saying in the Military, "You don't reinforce your lost" and this is what Putin is doing right now. Yes, what Putin is doing is defying Military Logic, he should cut the loss and divert his meager resource to where they can hold out. Sending 300,000 men won't solve anything.
> 
> 
> I am assuming the Chain of Russian command remain rational, Putin cannot order a nuclear strike until the Minister of Defence and the Chief of Russian Military approved. I don't know about Shoigu, Gerasimov is a traditional military man, he knows better than to do that, because if nuke was launch, one way or another, there are no way Russia can win. Gerasimov knows that.


Putin can’t win this war. Unless he is willing to kill every Ukrainian, every man, every woman.

As for winner China, Ccp plays with fire. Should it come to a nuclear exchange, China would not be spared. Even if not, they can’t survive in a nuclear desert around China. For their own survival they should have some interests how to stop the war from the escalating.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573226523909406722

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573058974450159616

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin can’t win this war.
> 
> As for winner China, Ccp plays with fire. Should it come to a nuclear exchange, China would not be spared. For their own survival they should have some interests how to stop the war from the escalating.


lol, I remember when this war start that Chinese should be more concern when Russia do these nuclear sabre rattling. A lot of Chinese member laugh at my face, now who is laughing?

It's foolish to believe if Russia nuke Ukraine or even NATO and China will be spared. This is just not the way this thing goes. If the world going to end, that means the world is going to end, and China is a part of this world, so this is not a laughing matter. But then some Chinese member here honestly think they can survive a global thermonuclear war......Part of me want it to happen to prove them wrong, part of me wish this never going to get in that stage.....I am torn...

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## jhungary

@Oldman1 

Interesting discussion I had with my friend online, he was a retired LTC. He believes we are going to send American tank to Ukraine the next year. 

As we discussed before, these options were held back because it doesn't give Russian excuse to escalate the war. Well, thanks to Putin mobilisation order, now gloves are off. Expect a lot heavier equipment to send. My friend also points to the M55S tank the Slovenia going to send to Ukraine. Notice that those M55S uses L7 105mm guns, the same guns being used by UK Challenger I, Centurion, M60 Patton (Both A1 and A3 uses US Licensed M68 guns) and co-incidentally M1128 Mobile Gun System that are going to be pull off the line this year. My friend hint at M1128 for Ukraine and then followed by American tanks (Not sure if he meant M60 Patton or Abrams, but judging from the L7 Guns on the M55S, we are most likely sending M60 Patton we still store in California Desert.

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## MrHyperForEver

*Breaking News :*
Voting starts in occupied regions of Ukraine on referendums to join Russia in balloting labelled by West as sham.

 _Source: *AP*_
https://apnews.com/article/russia-u...n=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

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## Vergennes

2 days into mobilization and things look already messy 🤡


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573232823380897793

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573244019685335040
These guys are heading straight to their deaths

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573244019685335040
> These guys are heading straight to their deaths



Disaster in the making.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573160156019433473

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## Reashot Xigwin

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 881980
> 
> 
> 2 days into mobilization and things look already messy 🤡
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573232823380897793


It won't change anything. Russia is a state that adopted Alcoholism as a national trait. The state owned all the rights to sell Vodka since the reign of Ivan the terrible. And let's face it nobody that lives in Russia can stand to live inside of it while sober.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573243393886588931
Got to love the fraud caught on camera

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## Reashot Xigwin

More drunk russian

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573240485728190468

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## Trango Towers

jhungary said:


> Why does Russia need to call up 300,000 reserves? If you can answer this question, it can probably answer yours.


Simple because every western country's special forces are operational in Ukraine. Total and open military support and probably Russia will push to finish this war. Why else would you call up reserves.

Ps. We're u having trouble with your question...its not hard to see why a country would call up reserves.

Pps. I don't support Russia for I know what they did in Afghanistan and chechenya and Syria but also I don't support Ukraine as they are nazis and their units committed open murder in chechenya

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## jhungary

Trango Towers said:


> Simple because every western country's special forces are operational in Ukraine. Total and open military support and probably Russia will push to finish this war. Why else would you call up reserves.
> 
> Ps. We're u having trouble with your question...its not hard to see why a country would call up reserves.
> 
> Pps. I don't support Russia for I know what they did in Afghanistan and chechenya and Syria but also I don't support Ukraine as they are nazis and their units committed open murder in chechenya


Well, let's for argument sake, there is NATO special force operate in Ukraine.

Even if NATO special force are in Ukraine like you said, that does not change the fact that the Russian are being defeated, albeit by NATO special force, and if Russia are being held up by NATO special force, which is a small force compare to conventional armies (I don't know how big you think Special Force organization are) Calling up untrained reserve is not going to change anything, I mean, you had your best troop with roughly the similar number against NATO special force, so how or what do you think the same number of troop, this time reservist, those who served 4 years ago, with similar number will fare against these Special Force unit??

Nobody in this world call to mobilise their reserve when things are going their way. That's very clear, whether or not NATO special force were in Ukraine wouldn't really matter, because if that is the case, it wouldn't do you much good sending reserve in a situation when your regular having trouble with, if this is NOT the case, that's even worse. 

PS I don't think Ukraine have fought anything in Chechenya, there were 2 wars Checheya fought with Ukraine have its statehood, in 1994 and 2000, both of them they were agianst Russia. Maybe you are thinking of Russian Civil War? When Ukrainian were part of Soviet Union, led by Russian? Otherwise I think you are confusing the Russian with Ukrainian,

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573229951393964033

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573206327798935552

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## Trango Towers

jhungary said:


> Well, let's for argument sake, there is NATO special force operate in Ukraine.
> 
> Even if NATO special force are in Ukraine like you said, that does not change the fact that the Russian are being defeated, albeit by NATO special force, and if Russia are being held up by NATO special force, which is a small force compare to conventional armies (I don't know how big you think Special Force organization are) Calling up untrained reserve is not going to change anything, I mean, you had your best troop with roughly the similar number against NATO special force, so how or what do you think the same number of troop, this time reservist, those who served 4 years ago, with similar number will fare against these Special Force unit??
> 
> Nobody in this world call to mobilise their reserve when things are going their way. That's very clear, whether or not NATO special force were in Ukraine wouldn't really matter, because if that is the case, it wouldn't do you much good sending reserve in a situation when your regular having trouble with, if this is NOT the case, that's even worse.
> 
> PS I don't think Ukraine have fought anything in Chechenya, there were 2 wars Checheya fought with Ukraine have its statehood, in 1994 and 2000, both of them they were agianst Russia. Maybe you are thinking of Russian Civil War? When Ukrainian were part of Soviet Union, led by Russian? Otherwise I think you are confusing the Russian with Ukrainian,


No I agree. Russia is not having their way but to say Ukraine is winning is stupid as Russia still occupies large parts of Ukraine. 
Anyways the coming months and winter will play a significant role in the future.
A started by NATO for its expansionist policies has resulted in thousand dying on both sides and will probably end in a stalemate.

No one wins in wars.

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## jhungary

Trango Towers said:


> No I agree. Russia is not having their way but to say Ukraine is winning is stupid as Russia still occupies large parts of Ukraine.
> Anyways the coming months and winter will play a significant role in the future.
> A started by NATO for its expansionist policies has resulted in thousand dying on both sides and will probably end in a stalemate.
> 
> No one wins in wars.


I never said Ukraine were winning, well, there are sign they started to, because that's mobilisation is a sign that Russia is losing. 

Traditionally Winter won't see much fighting, it usually used to build fortification and train up replacement. So once there are winter, there won't be as much movement than we had now. 

And no, NATO alone does is not responsible for it, it takes two to tango, Russia is as much to blame with NATO. And when you are under attack, what should Ukraine do? Roll over and let Russia take it? Bear in mind there are a lot fo way to push back NATO influence in Ukraine, but Russia is the one that choose war. You can say NATO dangle Ukrainian problem in front of Sweden and Finland to have them join their camp, but none of this would happen unless Russia invades, and they did.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573243551038726144

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## Reashot Xigwin

& the Russian "limited mobilization" turns out to just be regular mobilization. 






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573080312158076929


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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL I can't stop laughing at the russian style voting. The point of having a sham election is not to make it obvious. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573246647341023233

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL I can't stop laughing at the russian style voting. The point of having a sham election is not to make it obvious.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573246647341023233


An Ukrainian friends of mine said most of these people in Kherson vote with the name "V. Zelenskyy"...........

That show you how "serious" these referendum were...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573278469600993280


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## PakAlp

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573226523909406722
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573058974450159616



Devastating weapon. The Ukrainian know exactly where the Russian troops are via the western intelligence. The Russians on the other hand are clueless.

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## Reashot Xigwin

You know it's bad when the russian ran out of AKs. Sad part is that Monag probably worth more and can be traded with something better. Also almost forget the Veshmenchok. What chance the rusky rob this off a museum display? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572729914142654465

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573275246245060616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573234098336071680


Trango Towers said:


> No I agree. Russia is not having their way but to say Ukraine is winning is stupid as Russia still occupies large parts of Ukraine.
> Anyways the coming months and winter will play a significant role in the future.
> A started by NATO for its expansionist policies has resulted in thousand dying on both sides and will probably end in a stalemate.
> 
> No one wins in wars.



If Westerners didn't want war, then they shouldn't have orchestrated Euro Maidan riot in 2014 during Sochi olympics. Now is the time for Russians to have their vengeance.

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## F-22Raptor

PakAlp said:


> Devastating weapon. The Ukrainian know exactly where the Russian troops are via the western intelligence. The Russians on the other hand are clueless.



And HIMARS/M270 are about to get a lot deadlier with GMLRS-ER and Precision Strike Missile coming next year.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> And HIMARS/M270 are about to get a lot deadlier with GMLRS-ER and Precision Strike Missile coming next year.



HIMARS / ATACMS is crap compared to its Russian counterpart with is the Tornado-S / Iskander combo. HIMARS / ATACMS compared to Tornado-S / Iskander is like M16 compared to M14.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573229745520640000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573284048063336453

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573207398860439555

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## jhungary

PakAlp said:


> Devastating weapon. The Ukrainian know exactly where the Russian troops are via the western intelligence. The Russians on the other hand are clueless.


All these tell me there are Ukrainian Spotter on the ground, I mean, even for us in the US, we can't achieve that kind of accuracy without eyes and ears on the ground.

Either this is some type of SOF Long Range Patrol, or there is partisan calling target behind enemy lines, they had to have eyes on target to get that kind of accuracy....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573203449868701697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573193825933312000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573215251625041921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573224394977050624


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## PakAlp

jhungary said:


> All these tell me there are Ukrainian Spotter on the ground, I mean, even for us in the US, we can't achieve that kind of accuracy without eyes and ears on the ground.
> 
> Either this is some type of SOF Long Range Patrol, or there is partisan calling target behind enemy lines, they had to have eyes on target to get that kind of accuracy....



Can't they do it through advanced satellites. One of the Russian spokesman mentioned it. Its also possible Nato military advisors are in Ukraine. Still I would say Russia is supposed to be the 2nd military power after the USA but its a complete failure on all parts. Russia should be able to destroy all planes of Ukraine and track and locate HIMAARS but its a big failure, plus lack of planning etc. All a failure.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573247992794349568


PakAlp said:


> Can't they do it through advanced satellites. One of the Russian spokesman mentioned it. Its also possible Nato military advisors are in Ukraine. Still I would say Russia is supposed to be the 2nd military power after the USA but its a complete failure on all parts. Russia should be able to destroy all planes of Ukraine and track and locate HIMAARS but its a big failure, plus lack of planning etc. All a failure.



In winter Ukraine and former parts of it are heavily covered by cloud. Satellite cannot see through cloud. So Russians will do offensive during winter when American satellites are useless for Ukrainian army.



PakAlp said:


> Can't they do it through advanced satellites. One of the Russian spokesman mentioned it. Its also possible Nato military advisors are in Ukraine. Still I would say Russia is supposed to be the 2nd military power after the USA but its a complete failure on all parts. Russia should be able to destroy all planes of Ukraine and track and locate HIMAARS but its a big failure, plus lack of planning etc. All a failure.



China has more powerful military than the US or Russia. It's not even close.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573259733292941312

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## Reashot Xigwin

PakAlp said:


> Can't they do it through advanced satellites. One of the Russian spokesman mentioned it. Its also possible Nato military advisors are in Ukraine. Still I would say Russia is supposed to be the 2nd military power after the USA but its a complete failure on all parts. Russia should be able to destroy all planes of Ukraine and track and locate HIMAARS but its a big failure, plus lack of planning etc. All a failure.


Satellite don't stay at one place too long. If there's western forces in the area it's all minimal with the heavy lifting done by the ukrainians.

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## jhungary

PakAlp said:


> Can't they do it through advanced satellites. One of the Russian spokesman mentioned it. Its also possible Nato military advisors are in Ukraine. Still I would say Russia is supposed to be the 2nd military power after the USA but its a complete failure on all parts. Russia should be able to destroy all planes of Ukraine and track and locate HIMAARS but its a big failure, plus lack of planning etc. All a failure.


Satellite don't have 24/7 cover, plus it would have been US satellite (or at least NATO) unless US is inviting the Ukrainian in to their Pentagon SCIF, which I highly doubt they will, all Sat intel would be 2nd hand, ie it takes time from the US satellite and to US intel analyst to process them to Ukrainian hand. Ie, by the time the US Intel people tell the Ukrainian where to hit, that intel may have been expired. 

Also, integrating Satellite into ISTAR asset is a very advance art, I doubt Ukraine can master that art seeing they don't even have their own satellite. This is more old school, that's why I am guessing there are actual boots on the ground calling the shot. 

I don't know, but that's my gut feeling.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Satellite don't stay at one place too long. If there's western forces in the area it's all minimal with the heavy lifting done by the ukrainians.


Well, NATO wouldn't approve Defence Contractor to set up base in Kyiv to fix western weapon for the Ukrainian, they wouldn't allow US or NATO Special Force to operate in Ukraine. Plus those are outsider, and they will stick up like a sore thumb in Russian occupied territories. 

If there are SOF involved, they must be Ukrainian. Either that or the Ukrainian partisan movement is calling out target there.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573289263852044288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573293829914238982

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573292958467620866

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573248071013928961


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573292958467620866




They did not hit anyone. You must be desperate if you think that has caused any damage.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573295546215067650

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572959557604839424


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573293097278111744


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573296304498802690

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573242070113914880

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, SEPTEMBER 22​Sep 22, 2022 - Press ISW





*Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, Katherine Lawlor, and Mason Clark
September 22, 8:15 pm ET *​*Click here to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The Kremlin’s heavy-handed approach to partial mobilization may successfully meet the Kremlin’s internal quota of mobilized personnel but is unlikely to generate effective soldiers and* *is prompting significant domestic backlash for little gain. *Russian authorities are forcibly recruiting Russian citizens to fight in Ukraine on flimsy pretexts, violating the Kremlin’s promise to recruit only those with military experience. Russian authorities are also demonstrably mobilizing personnel (such as protesters) who will enter the war in Ukraine with abysmal morale. The Kremlin's heavy-handed approach to partial mobilization will likely exacerbate domestic resentment of a measure that would have been unpopular even if implemented without the harsh approaches observed in the last 24 hours.
*The Kremlin is openly not adhering to its promised conditions for partial mobilization just 24 hours after its September 21 declaration. *Russian officials previously claimed that partial mobilization will only impact 300,000 men and only those with previous military experience.[1] Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated on September 22 that the practice of administering mobilization notices to detained protesters does not contradict the September 21 mobilization law. Peskov’s threat contravenes the Kremlin's claim that it will abstain from mobilizing men outside of composed reservist lists.[2] Western and Russian opposition media outlets reported instances of Russian military commissars administering draft notices to protesters in Moscow and Voronezh.[3] Russian opposition outlets also reported on a bank IT specialist who had received a draft notice despite never having served in the army or attended military-education courses in university.[4] The IT specialist is likely one of many Russian men who received mobilization notices despite not meeting the stated criteria for partial mobilization. A university student in Buryatia released footage of Rosgvardia and military police pulling students from lessons, reportedly for mobilization, despite Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu repeatedly stating that Russian students will not be mobilized.[5]
*Kremlin quotas will likely force local officials to mobilize men regardless of their military status. *The quota for mobilized men remains unverifiable, with Kremlin officials claiming that Russia will mobilize only 300,000 men and Russian opposition outlets’ sources suggesting that the number might reach a million.[6] Regardless of the total quota, the Russian federal subjects executing the mobilization order will likely undertake recruitment measures outside of the outlined reservist call-up. Some Russian federal subjects such as the Republic of Yakutia (Sakha) and Kursk Oblast are imposing laws restricting reservists from leaving their places of permanent residence.[7] Russian enlistment officers and police are also reportedly enforcing unscrupulous mobilization practices (as ISW previously observed during their crypto-mobilization campaigns) by calling up men by phone, issuing notices in the middle of the night, and notifying men of their mobilization via state social benefits websites.[8]
*The Kremlin will also likely mobilize ethnically non-Russian and immigrant communities at a disproportionate rate.* A member of the Kremlin’s Russian Human Rights Council, Kirill Kabanov, proposed mandatory military service for Central Asian immigrants that have received Russian citizenship within the last ten years, threatening to confiscate their Russian citizenship if they do not mobilize.[9] _Current Time _reported that residents of Kurumkan, a village in the Republic of Buryatia, noted that Russian enlistment officers mobilized about 700 men of the total population of 5,500 people.[10] If witness reports from Kurumkan are accurate, they would indicate that Russian officials mobilized about 25% of the male population from a single village in a majority ethnically Buryat district. An Armenian Telegram channel published a mobilization list from Tuapse, Krasnodar Krai that reportedly consists of 90% ethnically Armenian residents, despite the town’s total Armenian community being only 8.5% of the population.[11]
*The Kremlin’s heavy-handed approach to mobilization is prompting public anger and distrust across Russia.* Independent Russian human rights outlet _OVD-Info _reported that protests took place in 42 cities across the country, including protests even in small villages in the Republic of Dagestan.[12] Unidentified assailants set fire to several military recruitment centers and local administration buildings in Nizhny Novgorod, St. Petersburg, Tolyatti, and Zabailkalsky Krai.[13] The Kremlin will likely subdue such protests in the coming days. However, the declaration of partial mobilization and blatant disregard for even the government-dictated parameters for the mobilization may alienate concerned swathes of the Russian public who were previously more tolerant of the less personally impactful Russian invasion of Ukraine.
*The Kremlin likely attempted to downplay a prisoner swap with Ukraine that is deeply unpopular among Russian nationalists and milbloggers by undertaking the swap the same day Putin announced partial mobilization. *The Kremlin exchanged 215 Ukrainian prisoners of war (POWs), including captured foreign nationals and Azov Battalion leaders, for at least 55 Russian POWs and political prisoners, including Putin’s personal friend, Ukrainian billionaire Viktor Medvechuk, on September 21.[14] The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed on September 22 that Russian and DNR and LNR POWs were in “mortal danger” in Ukrainian custody.[15] Far-right Russian milbloggers criticized the exchange and asked if the Kremlin had given up on the ”de-Nazification” of Ukraine, one of the stated goals of the Russian invasion.[16] Kremlin propagandists had heavily publicized the capture and planned prosecution of Azov personnel, accusing them of being Ukrainian Nazis. Other milbloggers criticized the Kremlin for enabling what they called Ukrainian information operations and ”allowing Kyiv to manipulate the mood in Russia.”[17] Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov described the exchange as ”incomprehensible,” implied that Chechen forces tortured Azov prisoners in captivity, and implied that Russian forces who capture ”Nazis” should kill them rather than take them as POWs if they will be traded back to Ukraine.[18] Torturing or killing POWs is a war crime and violates the Geneva Conventions.
*The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) announced that it began negotiations to establish a nuclear safety zone around the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP). Such negotiations are unlikely to significantly ameliorate the situation due to continued Russian efforts to stage provocations at the plant. *IAEA Director General Rafael Grossi stated on September 22 that the IAEA had begun “productive conversations” with Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, and French President Emmanuel Macron in order to establish a Nuclear Safety and Protection Zone at the ZNPP.[19] Despite the positive intentions of external negotiators, Russian forces may use negotiations as an opportunity to stage further provocations at the ZNPP and accuse Ukrainian troops of endangering the safety of the plant, as they have repeatedly done in the past. As ISW has previously reported, Russian forces previously exploited the IAEA presence at the ZNPP in order to accuse Ukraine of disregard for nuclear safety and blame Ukrainian forces for shelling the plant, despite being unable to provide visual evidence to support their accusations.[20] Russian authorities may seek to leverage the IAEA negotiations to accuse Ukraine of nuclear irresponsibility in an attempt to degrade continued Western support to Ukraine.
*Key Takeaways*

*The Kremlin’s heavy-handed approach to partial mobilization may successfully meet the Kremlin’s internal quota of mobilized personnel, but is unlikely to generate effective soldiers and is prompting significant domestic backlash for little gain.*
*The Kremlin is openly not adhering to its promised conditions for partial mobilization.*
*Kremlin quotas will likely force local officials to mobilize men regardless of their military status and will likely incentivize the mobilization of ethnically non-Russian and immigrant communities at a disproportionate rate.*
*The Kremlin likely attempted to downplay a prisoner swap with Ukraine that is deeply unpopular among Russian nationalists and milbloggers by undertaking the swap the same day Putin announced partial mobilization.*
*IAEA negotiations around the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant are unlikely to significantly improve the situation at the plant and may provide an opportunity for Russian forces to stage provocations.*
*Ukrainian forces likely continued limited counteroffensive operations along the Kharkiv-Luhansk Oblast border and continued attacks toward Lyman on September 22.*
*Ukrainian military officials maintained their operational silence regarding Ukrainian ground attacks in Kherson Oblast on September 22 and reiterated that Ukrainian forces are conducting an operational-level interdiction campaign in Kherson Oblast.*
*Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks along the frontlines in Donetsk Oblast on September 22.*
*Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground attacks west of Hulyaipole on September 22 and continued routine strikes throughout western Zaporizhia Oblast.*
*Russian occupation forces are hurriedly setting conditions to hold sham annexation referenda across occupied Ukraine from September 23-27.*
*Russian officials created polling stations in parts of Russia, ostensibly to enable displaced (in many cases meaning kidnapped) Ukrainian residents of occupied territories to “vote.”*
*Russian occupation officials in Ukraine likely expect to be forced to provide personnel to meet Russian regional mobilization quotas after the Kremlin illegally annexes occupied Ukrainian territories.*
 


*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Vovchansk-Kupyansk-Izyum-Lyman Line)*
Ukrainian forces likely continued limited counteroffensive operations along the Kharkiv-Luhansk Oblast border on September 22. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian troops repelled a Russian attack on Kupyansk (northeastern Kharkiv Oblast, near the Kharkiv-Luhansk Oblast border).[21] The General Staff report is consistent with Russian milblogger claims that Ukrainian troops succeeded in breaking Russian defenses along a line that runs between Dvorichna (15km northeast of Kupyansk) to bypass Kupyansk from the north and cross the Oskil River to threaten Russian positions just east of this area.[22] The Russian milblogger also indicated that Ukrainian forces have taken ground east of Dvorichna and are fighting in Tavlizhanka, which is reportedly still contested territory.[23] While ISW cannot independently confirm these Russian claims, they are consistent with previous reporting on continued Ukrainian efforts to penetrate the current Russian defensive lines that run along the Oskil River and push eastward.



Ukrainian forces likely continued attacks toward Lyman on September 22. Several Russian sources reported fighting to the northwest of Lyman and claimed that Ukrainian troops penetrated Russian defenses in Ridkodub and Karpivka, both 20km north of Lyman.[24] Russian sources also stated that Ukrainian forces broke through at Korovii Yar (22km northwest of Lyman) and are continuing attacks in Drobysheve (just west of Lyman).[25] The Ukrainian General Staff seemingly confirmed that Ukrainian troops have made additional advances north of Lyman and stated that Russian troops shelled Yatskivka (25km northwest of Lyman) and Korovii Yar, indicating that Russian forces are targeting newly captured Ukrainian positions in this area.[26]



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Ukrainian military officials maintained their operational silence regarding Ukrainian ground attacks in Kherson Oblast on September 22 and reiterated that Ukrainian forces are conducting an operational-level interdiction campaign in Kherson Oblast. The Ukrainian General Staff and Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command noted that Ukrainian forces continued to strike Russian manpower and equipment concentrations, control points, logistics nodes, and transportation assets through Kherson Oblast.[27]
*

*
Social media footage provides visual evidence of continued Ukrainian interdiction efforts against Russian positions in Kherson Oblast on September 21 and 22. Geolocated footage from September 22 shows the aftermath of Ukrainian strikes in Kherson City.[28] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command also stated that Ukrainian troops hit Russian positions and equipment conglomerations around Nova Kakhovka, Beryslav, and Lvove, all along the Dnipro River and within 50km east of Kherson City.[29] Geolocated footage also shows strikes on Nova Kakhkovka on the night of September 21.[30] Ukraine’s Southern Operation Command stated that Russian forces have redeployed air defense units to Beryslav, suggesting that continued strikes are placing constant pressure on Russian positions in Kherson Oblast and necessitating increased defensive measures.[31] Ukrainian forces also struck Russian positions in northern Kherson Oblast around Novovoskresenske.[32]
Neither Russian nor Ukrainian sources discussed specific Ukrainian counteroffensive ground maneuvers in Kherson Oblast on September 22. A Russian milblogger claimed that unspecified positional battles occurring in the direction of Mykolaiv (likely northwest of Kherson City near the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border) and in the direction of Kryvyi Rih (northern Kherson Oblast), but did not provide further details.[33]
*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks along the frontlines in Donetsk Oblast on September 22. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled attacks south of Bakhmut in Zaitseve (8km southeast of Bakhmut) and Odradivka (10km south of Bakhmut along the T0513 highway).[34] Russian sources additionally indicated that Russian troops are fighting in both Zaitseve and Odradivka, making continued attempts to press northward on Bakhmut.[35] The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Territorial Defense Force claimed that DNR troops took control of Zhovanka, 20km south of Bakhmut on the northern outskirts of Horlivka.[36] Russian milbloggers also claimed that Ukrainian troops conducted a controlled withdrawal from the eastern outskirts of Bakhmut and posted imagery reportedly of a bridge over the Bakhmutka River in eastern Bakhmut that Ukrainian forces blew up as they withdrew.[37] The Ukrainian General Staff reported a limited Russian ground attack in western Donetsk Oblast and stated that Russian troops conducted an assault on Novomykhailivka, about 25km southwest of Donetsk City.[38] Russian forces continued routine strikes along the line of contact around Bakhmut, the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area, western Donetsk Oblast, and eastern Zaporizhia Oblast.[39]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground attacks west of Hulyaipole on September 22 and continued routine strikes throughout western Zaporizhia Oblast.[40] Ukraine’s State Security Service (SBU) stated that SBU special forces conducted a likely series of raids in an unspecified location of Zaporizhia Oblast and destroyed Russian equipment, ammunition stores, and positions over the last several days, suggesting that Ukrainian troops continue to threaten Russian positions and assets in Zaporizhia Oblast.[41] Russian troops continued routine strikes throughout Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv Oblasts, and reportedly utilized an Iranian Shahed-136 drone to attack civilian infrastructure in Kryvyi Rih.[42] Russian-appointed officials in Crimea claimed that Russian air defense systems shot down Ukrainian drones over Dzhankoi, Crimea on September 22.[43]
*

*
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
The Kremlin is likely dissatisfied with St. Petersburg officials’ recruitment efforts for regional volunteer battalions. St. Peterburg officials announced that they have completed the formation of three volunteer battalions - Kronshtadt, Neva, and Pavlovsk – after announcing recruitment efforts in July.[44] St. Petersburg’s Chief Federal Inspector Pavel Dashkov noted that ”a number” of military recruitment centers’ employees in St. Petersburg have shown their ”professional unsuitability” when conducting volunteer recruitment campaigns in the city.[45] ISW previously reported that Kremlin-sponsored outlets have blamed St. Petersburg Governor Alexander Beglov for refusing to sign a decree that would heavily advertise recruitment into volunteer battalions.[46]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation forces are hurriedly setting conditions to hold sham annexation referenda across occupied Ukraine from September 23-27. Ukraine’s General Staff reported on September 22 that Russian occupation authorities in Staroblisk, Luhansk Oblast are forming armed groups to go door-to-door and force locals to participate in the referendum.[47] Occupation authorities reportedly forbid the local population from leaving the city during the referendum period. Ukraine’s General Staff also reported that Russian occupation authorities in Kherson Oblast are preparing propaganda campaigns to legitimize the referenda, forming “election commissions,” and are predicating the distribution of humanitarian aid on civilians providing their personal information to occupation authorities—personal information that Russian authorities will likely use to falsify voting records. The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) reported on September 22 that it had intercepted documents from the Russian proxy Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) suggesting that DNR officials will allow children ages 13-17 to participate in Russia’s sham annexation referendum. [48]
Russian officials created polling stations in parts of Russia, ostensibly to enable displaced (in many cases meaning kidnapped) Ukrainian residents of occupied territories to “vote.” Russian officials will likely use these hundreds of voting stations to more easily rig the sham referenda. The ambassador of the so-called Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) to Russia, Rodion Miroshnik, announced on September 22 that the LNR established 201 polling stations across Russia for displaced LNR residents to “vote.”[49] A Russian milblogger reported that Russian authorities established 135 polling stations in Russia’s Rostov Oblast for displaced Ukrainians to vote in the sham referendum for the DNR, LNR, Kherson, or Zaporizhia.
Russian occupation officials in Ukraine likely expect to be forced to provide personnel to meet Russian regional mobilization quotas after the Kremlin illegally annexes occupied Ukrainian territories. DNR officials reported that they would suspend mobilization efforts during the referendum period, but would still accept voluntary contract service applicants between September 23-28.[50] Both the DNR and LNR have practiced forced mobilization since the war began, but may be pausing their efforts to better prepare to meet expected Russian mobilization quotas.[51] The Ukrainian mayor of Melitopol, Ivan Fedoro, announced on September 21 that Russian occupiers plan to ban draftable Ukrainian men from leaving occupied Zaporizhia Oblast on October 1, likely to preserve a forcibly mobilizable population of Ukrainian men to fight under duress against the Ukrainian military.[52] ISW previously reported that Russian occupation officials began openly preparing ”volunteer battalions” in occupied Zaporizhia and Kherson oblasts after occupation authorities announced the rushed referendum dates.[53] ISW continues to assess that Russian forces will likely coerce or physically force some Ukrainian men to fight in these units against the Ukrainian military, as Russian forces have done in Donetsk and Luhansk.


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## One_Nation

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573278469600993280


Sounds like Iranian drone.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573295376836214787

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## MeFishToo

Source (War in Ukraine)
Breakthrough of russian defensive positions northwest of Lyman. Potential collaps of russian defence east of Oskil river and Lyman. Situation fluid.
Wagner forces relocated to the northern part of the Donbass front to reinforce russian defence east of Spirne.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573281403571142660


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## Reashot Xigwin

Good news everyone. It seems Putin real draft numbers was not 300k but 1 million. Which means longer war and more rusky for the ukrainians to kill 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572925733223432192

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Good news everyone. It seems Putin real draft numbers was not 300k but 1 million. Which means longer war and more rusky for the ukrainians to kill
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572925733223432192



Russia has 146 million people compared to Ukraine's 34 million. It is very good man power advantage.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573223774949875712


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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has 146 million people compared to Ukraine's 34 million. It is very good man power advantage.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573223774949875712



Russian are not people...

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## Clutch

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russian are not people...



People are not people.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573302554716520449

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## Reashot Xigwin

Behold the average Russian

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572424074969886723


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## Viet

A M1 tank division requires 600,000 gallons of fuel per day. That’s a lot. German Leo2 tank consumes less fuel. it’s the better fit for Ukraine tank armies.





__





‘These are not rental cars’: As Ukraine pleads for tanks, the West holds back - POLITICO






www.politico.com










Ukrainian servicemen drive atop a tank in the recently retaken area of Izium, Ukraine, Wednesday, Sept. 14, 2022. | Evgeniy Maloletka/AP Photo


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> A M1 tank division requires 600,000 gallons of fuel per day. That’s a lot. German Leo2 tank consumes less fuel. it’s the better fit for Ukraine tank armies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘These are not rental cars’: As Ukraine pleads for tanks, the West holds back - POLITICO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian servicemen drive atop a tank in the recently retaken area of Izium, Ukraine, Wednesday, Sept. 14, 2022. | Evgeniy Maloletka/AP Photo



M1 used Avtur (Jet fuel) they used Gas turbine engine. 

It's not just about fuel consumption. It's about Logistic, training, etc & less talked about are the Tank's weight. M1 & Leo2 are >50 tons Behemoth. The average Ukrainian roads & bridges can't hold them. 

Pentagon only suggested sending more former warsaw pact tanks to ukraine (for now) because they are more familiar with the platforms, supplies are aplenty making logistic easier, easier to train & field than western tanks. In the future maybe but not now.

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## Viet

Great stuff

Australia wants to send several hundreds Bushmaster.

Ukraine needs more materials for the incoming winter war against the Russian invasion army.










Australia mulls building more Bushmasters to help Ukraine


The extra armoured vehicles would help replace those being given to Ukraine as it continues its offensive against the Russian invasion.




www.afr.com









An Australian Bushmaster PMV armoured vehicle is loaded onto a RAAF C-17 cargo plane at the Amberley Air Base. Getty

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russians flooding the border but its in Mongolia

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572820087802839040


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## PakFactor

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Behold the average Russian
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572424074969886723



Lol


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573310972508647425

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## RoadAmerica

zectech said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573084546731737088
> Somebody figured out the game.
> 
> The EU is planned to burn down economically, politically, militarily.
> 
> NATO US is not going to defend Europe.
> 
> And US (Trump, Barr, Pompeo, cia) and Russia (Putin, fsb) are working together to destroy Europe.
> 
> Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède
> 
> 
> Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


Trumps not president genius


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## One_Nation

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Behold the average Russian
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572424074969886723


This is the most horrible type of convict to be released.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573316051127144452

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## Reashot Xigwin

One_Nation said:


> This is the most horrible type of convict to be released.



Normally I agree but if you just going to use them as cannon fodders... Eh knock yourself out. But this just show the level of desperation in russia now.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573316051127144452

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573309239501668352


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## One_Nation

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Normally I agree but if you just going to use them as cannon fodders... Eh knock yourself out. But this just show the level of desperation in russia now.


He will likely eat one of his own comrades before taking on the enemy.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

One_Nation said:


> He will likely eat one of his own comrades before taking on the enemy.



Criminals are recruited into Wagner which is the best fighting unit.









Wagner Group - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## PakAlp

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China has more powerful military than the US or Russia. It's not even close.



Lol your a big troll. How many wars China fought during recent times 0. On paper they look good but no match for USA or Nato. They maybe similar to Russia except more manpower.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakAlp said:


> Lol your a big troll. How many wars China fought during recent times 0. On paper they look good but no match for USA or Nato. They maybe similar to Russia except more manpower.



China has much better military gear than the US. J-20 > F-35. Type 055 > Arleigh Burke.

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## PakAlp

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China has much better military gear than the US. J-20 > F-35. Type 055 > Arleigh Burke.



If China was as powerful as you claim then they would 100% supply weapons to Russia, they would destroy Nato/Ukraine in Ukraine. Its a great opportunity for them. Then Taiwan would be a sitting duck. Instead its Nato openly supporting Ukraine and defeating Russia, guess who's next?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakAlp said:


> If China was as powerful as you claim then they would 100% supply weapons to Russia, they would destroy Nato/Ukraine in Ukraine. Its a great opportunity for them. Then Taiwan would be a sitting duck. Instead its Nato openly supporting Ukraine and defeating Russia, guess who's next?



Relax. This is the first forever war in human history. In the past wars ended. This is the first war that will never end.


----------



## aviator_fan

zectech said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573084546731737088
> Somebody figured out the game.
> 
> The EU is planned to burn down economically, politically, militarily.
> 
> NATO US is not going to defend Europe.
> 
> And US (Trump, Barr, Pompeo, cia) and Russia (Putin, fsb) are working together to destroy Europe.
> 
> Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède
> 
> 
> Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


You do know Trump is not President any more. Why don't you print your birth announcement too if you are going to link a 3 year article


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians have had enough of Anglo bullying in the past 100 years. Enough is enough. Like Germans, Italians, Japanese, this time Russians fight back against Anglo bullying.


Okay China mouthpiece (fake Canadian accessing from Canada): Russia has been part of the same Anglo expansion. Its called empire building and it did plenty of it till 1800s.

If it catches a few new regions thats good for them: it will be economically on its way to be the same as an African country or worse cutoff from rest of the world. And it doesn't matter what China offers as a country, its companies will never comprimise their European business for Loser Russia.

I am willing to go with that tradeoff: a permenantly depressed Russia for a bit of Ukraine. Thatst he best case scenario



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Relax. This is the first forever war in human history. In the past wars ended. This is the first war that will never end.


Like the China-Japan forever war that lasted 8 years and only reason China became free was because the US came in to defeat Japan. Or China super humans would still be a colony



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China has much better military gear than the US. J-20 > F-35. Type 055 > Arleigh Burke.



And you have two aircraft carriers and none of your carrier pilots can conduct night time ops. So you want the adversary to not fight you at night beacuse you haven't figured out how to land at night. 

J20 is like the SU35. Its all good till you prove it in action. Lets see how it survives against AESA F-16s in Taiwan

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573321104273428480

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has 146 million people compared to Ukraine's 34 million. It is very good man power advantage.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573223774949875712


Worthless: Chinese manpower advantage of Japan 50x, but got colonised and ruled for 8 years till US came to defeat Japan. Worthless population advantage

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> M1 used Avtur (Jet fuel) they used Gas turbine engine.
> 
> It's not just about fuel consumption. It's about Logistic, training, etc & less talked about are the Tank's weight. M1 & Leo2 are >50 tons Behemoth. The average Ukrainian roads & bridges can't hold them.
> 
> Pentagon only suggested sending more former warsaw pact tanks to ukraine (for now) because they are more familiar with the platforms, supplies are aplenty making logistic easier, easier to train & field than western tanks. In the future maybe but not now.


Leo2 is some 70 tons. I don’t think that’s a problem with roads and bridges. Ukraine is not Burma. Even in Germany tanks can’t use every road, every bridge. There are special traffic signs for tanks. 90 ton one way bridge. 30 tons two ways.







Gelbe "Panzerschilder" standen jahrzehntelang


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Okay China mouthpiece (fake Canadian accessing from Canada)



I am Canadian immigrant but I do not consider myself Canadian. I consider myself Chinese.



aviator_fan said:


> Worthless: Chinese manpower advantage of Japan 50x, but got colonised and ruled for 8 years till US came to defeat Japan. Worthless population advantage



China man power over Japan is 11 times. 1400 million compared to 120 million.

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## Reashot Xigwin

One_Nation said:


> He will likely eat one of his own comrades before taking on the enemy.


Eh, whatchu gonna do. Psychopaths in the russian military are the norm

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572973473290502150


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I am Canadian immigrant but I do not consider myself Canadian. I consider myself Chinese.
> 
> 
> 
> China man power over Japan is 11 times. 1400 million compared to 120 million.


In here we call you traitor. I'm ethnically chinese but I will willingly slaughter every chinese if my country orders it


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573331656618180609


Reashot Xigwin said:


> In here we call you traitor. I'm ethnically chinese but I will willingly slaughter every chinese if my country orders it



@waz @The Eagle 

This speech from @Reashot Xigwin is against forum rules and borders on terrorism.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573275246245060616
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573234098336071680
> 
> 
> If Westerners didn't want war, then they shouldn't have orchestrated Euro Maidan riot in 2014 during Sochi olympics. Now is the time for Russians to have their vengeance.


Same useless video you keep posting thread after thread because you have nothing new to add. I have the same video about Chinese video of Uhygur but its as useless as yours. So your brother next door is getting his butt kicked and the best you have to post is 'what happened in 2014'....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> In here we call you traitor. I'm ethnically chinese but I will willingly slaughter every chinese if my country orders it



China is a great country. Most fertile land in the world. Oldest continuous civilization in the world.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573328689999540224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573328692113186817

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573315298861907968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573315052295397379

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573323074195582976

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## gambit

aviator_fan said:


> Same useless video you keep posting thread after thread because you have nothing new to add. I have the same video about Chinese video of Uhygur but its as useless as yours. So your brother next door is getting his butt kicked and the best you have to post is 'what happened in 2014'....


The guy is clearly a troll, but a rules compliant one. He does not contribute to the conversation in any intellectually meaningful way. All he want is provocative attention.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573336580395503619


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573334805604978691

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Drones find Ukrainian convoy and calls in artillery strike. 1 shot 1 kill with Krasnopol laser guided 6 inch rounds.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573308369712078850

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## F-22Raptor

gambit said:


> The guy is clearly a troll, but a rules compliant one. He does not contribute to the conversation in any intellectually meaningful way. All he want is provocative attention.



Supaboy been trolling this forum for years. He constantly changes his username hoping no one will notice.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China is a great country. Most fertile land in the world. Oldest continuous civilization in the world.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573328689999540224
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573328692113186817


Also the biggest humanitarian s-hole on planet earth so what? 

Meanwhile this is what actual terrorism looks like. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573000111680004098


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573334805604978691



The drone is cheaper than the missile. Hundreds of drones can deplete SAM stock.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The drone is cheaper than the missile. Hundreds of drones can deplete SAM stock.


The US sends >100k of stingers in Ukraine. They can shoot at them all day.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The US sends >100k of stingers in Ukraine. They can shoot at them all day.



Perhaps, but one day Biden won't be president anymore. Then no more Stinger. But the drones will keep coming.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Nothing says Russia is outproducing the west in weapons while sending their missile workers to the fronts


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573086781725351937

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Nothing says Russia is outproducing the west in weapons while sending their missile workers to the fronts
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573086781725351937



They hire Chinese workers. Chinese workers make missiles in Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573303611685310467

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573304044097097729

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## zectech

Putin slightly won the first phase of the war against the EU. In destroying businesses and making the euro weaker than the dollar.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573123734826795010

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573218674735026176
Putinites and fellow Putinites Trumpers are bitcoiners. They want the euro to collapse and the one global currency to be bitcoin to defeat the euro, dollar, rupee in Putin's hyperinflationary global meltdown. That is one of the late stage goals of the war. Trump/Putin destroying each currency and replacing them with Q-anon bitcoins.

#SaveTheDollar
#SaveTheEuro

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573304734353862656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573310103943626753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573310826722856961

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573341742354554883

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Source (War in Ukraine)
> Breakthrough of russian defensive positions northwest of Lyman. Potential collaps of russian defence east of Oskil river and Lyman. Situation fluid.
> Wagner forces relocated to the northern part of the Donbass front to reinforce russian defence east of Spirne.
> View attachment 882040


Pro-Russia Blogger WarGonzo (Yes, that one) confirmed Drobysheve (West of Lyman) has been fallen to Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572650311290073090
They are flanking Lyman from South, West and Northwest after Broken thru Korovii Yar, seems like Russian control of Lyman days is over.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Pro-Russia Blogger WarGonzo (Yes, that one) confirmed Drobysheve (West of Lyman) has been fallen to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572650311290073090
> They are flanking Lyman frim South, West and Northwest after Broken thru Korovii Yar, seems like Russian control of Lyman days is over.



Ukraine fights with 1 to 4 deficiency in man power. Think Confederates versus Unions. It is not sustainable.


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Reashot Xigwin said:


> M1 used Avtur (Jet fuel) they used Gas turbine engine.
> 
> It's not just about fuel consumption. It's about Logistic, training, etc & less talked about are the Tank's weight. M1 & Leo2 are >50 tons Behemoth. The average Ukrainian roads & bridges can't hold them.
> 
> Pentagon only suggested sending more former warsaw pact tanks to ukraine (for now) because they are more familiar with the platforms, supplies are aplenty making logistic easier, easier to train & field than western tanks. In the future maybe but not now.



Imagine Ukrainians can have several breaks and send T-72M/A series to Poland who will upgrade them with German/EU money to PT-91 M2 variant.
T-72B can be directly used or mabe upgraded?
I dunno know a program for them from former eastern block - now EU countries?
Because Russkis let them built T-72M1 (T-72A obrig. 1983) only.
Upgrade the Eastern Block stuff and THEN send it to Ukraine.
You can upgrade 2S1 122mm SPH to have MRSI... etc.
To send all different kinds of equipment now will bring problems with the logistics.
BMP-1 and BMP-2 could be nicely upgraded.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

& this is why it's morally justifiable to commit sacrilege against the russian orthodox church

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573322642752503809


----------



## jhungary

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Imagine Ukrainians can have several breaks and send T-72M/A series to Poland who will upgrade them with German/EU money to PT-91 M2 variant.
> T-72B can be directly used or mabe upgraded?
> I dunno know a program for them from former eastern block - now EU countries?
> Because Russkis let them built T-72M1 (T-72A obrig. 1983) only.
> Upgrade the Eastern Block stuff and THEN send it to Ukraine.
> You can upgrade 2S1 122mm SPH to have MRSI... etc.
> To send all different kinds of equipment now will bring problems with the logistics.
> BMP-1 and BMP-2 could be nicely upgraded.


The problem why Western tank were not currently in Ukraine is because of logistic and support issue. Currently there are no US or NATO defence contractor in Kyiv providing support to fix these western equipment Ukraine were not equip to support when it breakdown, so say if a HIMARS or M270 MLRS engine has broken down, they have to tow it from wherever they are to Poland for them to fix it, this is not really economical. Which is why NATO has been sending unmodified ex-Soviet stock, Ukraine can fix them on the ground.

And the reason why there aren't US or NATO contractor in Ukraine is because it wasn't stable, but that was a few months ago, they probably need to look at places like Lviv and Kyiv or even further east near Sumy or Kharkiv are more or less stable enough to operate a maintenance center

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> The problem why Western tank were not currently in Ukraine is because of logistic and support issue. Currently there are no US or NATO defence contractor in Kyiv providing support to fix these western equipment Ukraine were not equip to support when it breakdown, so say if a HIMARS or M270 MLRS engine has broken down, they have to tow it from wherever they are to Poland for them to fix it, this is not really economical. Which is why NATO has been sending unmodified ex-Soviet stock, Ukraine can fix them on the ground.
> 
> And the reason why there aren't US or NATO contractor in Ukraine is because it wasn't stable, but that was a few months ago, they probably need to look at places like Lviv and Kyiv or even further east near Sumy or Kharkiv are more or less stable enough to operate a maintenance center



They can probably just buy back the 300 T-80 they sold to Pakistan but it is likely they are in bad condition after all these years.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Imagine Ukrainians can have several breaks and send T-72M/A series to Poland who will upgrade them with German/EU money to PT-91 M2 variant.
> T-72B can be directly used or mabe upgraded?
> I dunno know a program for them from former eastern block - now EU countries?
> Because Russkis let them built T-72M1 (T-72A obrig. 1983) only.
> Upgrade the Eastern Block stuff and THEN send it to Ukraine.
> You can upgrade 2S1 122mm SPH to have MRSI... etc.
> To send all different kinds of equipment now will bring problems with the logistics.
> BMP-1 and BMP-2 could be nicely upgraded.


The long term plan is still on arming Ukraine with western made weapons. But the short term is giving the Ukrainian combloc weapons. Because that's what they are used to and because there's parts for it everywhere east of the berlin wall. 

Maybe we see the Ukrainian armed with Leopard 2 next years or the years after that. But for now Ukraine have to be satisfied with what they get.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The long term plan is still on arming Ukraine with western made weapons. But the short term is giving the Ukrainian combloc weapons. Because that's what they are used to and because there's parts for it everywhere east of the berlin wall.
> 
> Maybe we see the Ukrainian armed with Leopard 2 next years or the years after that. But for now Ukraine have to be satisfied with what they get.



Leopard 2 only has conventional rounds. Against T-90M it is sitting duck. T-90M is armed with AT-11 Sniper missiles which have twice the range of Leopard 2's conventional round.









9M119 Svir/Refleks - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## reflecthofgeismar

jhungary said:


> The problem why Western tank were not currently in Ukraine is because of logistic and support issue. Currently there are no US or NATO defence contractor in Kyiv providing support to fix these western equipment Ukraine were not equip to support when it breakdown, so say if a HIMARS or M270 MLRS engine has broken down, they have to tow it from wherever they are to Poland for them to fix it, this is not really economical. Which is why NATO has been sending unmodified ex-Soviet stock, Ukraine can fix them on the ground.
> 
> And the reason why there aren't US or NATO contractor in Ukraine is because it wasn't stable, but that was a few months ago, they probably need to look at places like Lviv and Kyiv or even further east near Sumy or Kharkiv are more or less stable enough to operate a maintenance center


Yeah I know but I wrote what should be done with Soviet classics when you have the time for that.
Ukries had good projects too before the war, sadly they have the same blood-sucking-parasites as company owners like in Russia.

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The long term plan is still on arming Ukraine with western made weapons. But the short term is giving the Ukrainian combloc weapons. Because that's what they are used to and because there's parts for it everywhere east of the berlin wall.
> 
> Maybe we see the Ukrainian armed with Leopard 2 next years or the years after that. But for now Ukraine have to be satisfied with what they get.


Well, they did send M55S, an upgraded T-55 to Ukraine.

That would open the door to NATO tanks, but then it's a small number of M55 getting thru. 

I was talking to one of my friends today, he was a retired Lt Col. He said the M55 uses the same guns with most NATO 80s weapons. The L7 105mm Rifled Main Gun. which would undoubtedly open the door to many older NATO weapon including M60 Patton Tanks, Centurion and Challenger 1, Leopard 1 and the M1128 Mobile Gun System. There are a lot of surplus platforms on those.



reflecthofgeismar said:


> Yeah I know but I wrote what should be done with Soviet classics when you have the time for that.
> Ukries had good projects too before the war, sadly they have the same blood-sucking-parasites as company owners like in Russia.


lol, like pimp my ride for those soviet tank??

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## reflecthofgeismar

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Leopard 2 only has conventional rounds. Against T-90M it is sitting duck. T-90M is armed with AT-11 Sniper missiles which have twice the range of Leopard 2's conventional round.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9M119 Svir/Refleks - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



You are talking so much non-sense, it's unbelievable.
The Russians can't even produce something on their own without western tech.
T-90M has still 4km/h reverse-speed haha.
And you are the perfect example why you need hard immigration test with option to kick leeches out of country.
T-90 mod. 1992 = T-72BU but because of marketing reasons = T-90.
T-90M is much better ture, but Turkish Leopard 2A4 which even had not late 80s/early 90s type c armour and were used very noobish aren't a fully upgraded Leopard 2 too. 
You know Germans could EASILY upgrade all their Leo2 to a completely new machine...
Germans have 2 own APS, the fastest of the world, even against top down attack and the best passive addon armour too.
T-90M have same weakness of penetrator lenght of their APFSDS rounds cause autoloader can only be loaded with such lenghts.
SLOW HEAT gun-ATGM  can even be dodged by Chinese dog-flesh transporter.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573344130306113536

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## Vergennes

Well,mobilization's going according to plan! So nice to see so much motivation and respect!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573333122304835584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573240127731687430

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## reflecthofgeismar

jhungary said:


> Well, they did send M55S, an upgraded T-55 to Ukraine.
> 
> That would open the door to NATO tanks, but then it's a small number of M55 getting thru.
> 
> I was talking to one of my friends today, he was a retired Lt Col. He said the M55 uses the same guns with most NATO 80s weapons. The L7 105mm Rifled Main Gun. which would undoubtedly open the door to many older NATO weapon including M60 Patton Tanks, Centurion and Challenger 1, Leopard 1 and the M1128 Mobile Gun System. There are a lot of surplus platforms on those.
> 
> 
> lol, like pimp my ride for those soviet tank??


Challenger 1 hadn't 105 
Even the predecessor, the Chieftain had the L11A5...
Royal Ordnance L11A5, main variant.
L30A1 = Challi 2.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

reflecthofgeismar said:


> The Russians can't even produce something on their own without western tech.



The missile is 80s. And even without Western import, Chinese import is sufficient.

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## reflecthofgeismar

jhungary said:


> Well, they did send M55S, an upgraded T-55 to Ukraine.
> 
> That would open the door to NATO tanks, but then it's a small number of M55 getting thru.
> 
> I was talking to one of my friends today, he was a retired Lt Col. He said the M55 uses the same guns with most NATO 80s weapons. The L7 105mm Rifled Main Gun. which would undoubtedly open the door to many older NATO weapon including M60 Patton Tanks, Centurion and Challenger 1, Leopard 1 and the M1128 Mobile Gun System. There are a lot of surplus platforms on those.
> 
> 
> lol, like pimp my ride for those soviet tank??


Yeah, give me Germans, Americans, British, French or any other western style forces with best upgraded SOVIET equipment and they will kick ***.
It's mostly the soldiers/officer-corps especially...
Sure, soviet goldies have (like everything) their weakness, even more so than others but it's the user.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573350468751085570

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573350470692773889

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Well, they did send M55S, an upgraded T-55 to Ukraine.
> 
> That would open the door to NATO tanks, but then it's a small number of M55 getting thru.
> 
> I was talking to one of my friends today, he was a retired Lt Col. He said the M55 uses the same guns with most NATO 80s weapons. The L7 105mm Rifled Main Gun. which would undoubtedly open the door to many older NATO weapon including M60 Patton Tanks, Centurion and Challenger 1, Leopard 1 and the M1128 Mobile Gun System. There are a lot of surplus platforms on those.
> 
> 
> lol, like pimp my ride for those soviet tank??


I would say bless the Israeli but F those guys for being MIA so long in the war. But to quote "Dozle Zabi" from the Gundam series "five used Rick Dom are better than one cutting edge mobile suit." 

But M55 are probably more advanced than most Ukrainian tank stock (not including captured T-90M) So it's an important force multiplier nonetheless. Wish the west can send more like Sheridan or Patton.

Turkey have a nice stock of old tanks especially the Sabra. That can so some damage to Russian tanks.


----------



## jhungary

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Challenger 1 hadn't 105
> Even the predecessor, the Chieftain had the L11A5...
> Royal Ordnance L11A5, main variant.
> L30A1 = Challi 2.


Yeah, my mistake, it was used on Merkava 1 with M68 main gun.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Tanks are not a gamechanger. What the US should do is hire Blackwater to fight in Ukraine. Print 100 trillion USD and pay each Blackwater 1 million USD to fight in Ukraine. They can mobilize 1 million Blackwater from the US unemployed population to fight in Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573314121285734401

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## jhungary

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Yeah, give me Germans, Americans, British, French or any other western style forces with best upgraded SOVIET equipment and they will kick ***.
> It's mostly the soldiers/officer-corps especially...
> Sure, soviet goldies have (like everything) their weakness, even more so than others but it's the user.


It really depends. 

There are good and bad on jury rigging stuff. The good thing is you patch their weakness with those upgrade, the bad thing is you don't know how it will perform until you use them in battle. 

I personally believe the original manufacturer have the best spec, which mean upgrade usually come up with second best, but that's just me.


----------



## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I would say bless the Israeli but F those guys for being MIA so long in the war. But to quote "Dozle Zabi" from the Gundam series "five used Rick Dom are better than one cutting edge mobile suit."
> 
> But M55 are probably more advanced than most Ukrainian tank stock (not including captured T-90M) So it's an important force multiplier nonetheless. Wish the west can send more like Sheridan or Patton.
> 
> Turkey have a nice stock of old tanks especially the Sabra. That can so some damage to Russian tanks.


Well, Israeli try to play both side but then it probably just got too hard for them to keep supporting Russia.

M55 probably is better stock than most 70s and 80s soviet tank Ukrainian have. It is on par with early-stage Abrams or L2. 

As for Sheridan and Patton, US have hundred of them in Sierra Army Depot, they are going to need some work before they can be used but that is not an impossible task, they should have transfer those to Ukraine ASAP and ask country like Turkey, Israel, Egypt or even Taiwan to transfer their upgraded Patton Stock in exchange for maybe US depoted M1 Abrams.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Well, Israeli try to play both side but then it probably just got too hard for them to keep supporting Russia.
> 
> M55 probably is better stock than most 70s and 80s soviet tank Ukrainian have. It is on par with early-stage Abrams or L2.
> 
> As for Sheridan and Patton, US have hundred of them in Sierra Army Depot, they are going to need some work before they can be used but that is not an impossible task, they should have transfer those to Ukraine ASAP and ask country like Turkey, Israel, Egypt or even Taiwan to transfer their upgraded Patton Stock in exchange for maybe US depoted M1 Abrams.



Taiwan may supply tanks to Ukraine but Turkey, Israel, Egypt won't. They have good relation with Russia and see Russia as a more important market than Ukraine because Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573355478830252033

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Good news everyone. It seems Putin real draft numbers was not 300k but 1 million. Which means longer war and more rusky for the ukrainians to kill
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572925733223432192


Putin sends them to dead march. No training, no preparation, direct to the front in Ukraine.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573337663561777155

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Well,mobilization's going according to plan! So nice to see so much motivation and respect!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573333122304835584
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573240127731687430


Well, Russian are just following their leader......

Lavrov storm out of UN building during meeting. Russian storm out of Russia during a war. 

Nothing to see here, just Patriotic Russian at works here....

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## reflecthofgeismar

jhungary said:


> Well, Russian are just following their leader......
> 
> Lavrov storm out of UN building during meeting. Russian storm out of Russia during a war.
> 
> Nothing to see here, just Patriotic Russian at works here....


Bljatiful.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573354046605463553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573295523406249985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572891959475290114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573313351585001473

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## Viet

EU 8th sanction package coming.

More russian banks will be ousted from Swift: Gazprombank, Alfbank and Rosbank.

More painful steps against Russia 

EU demands the UN to oust Russia from UN Security Council.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> EU 8th sanction package coming.
> 
> More russian banks will be ousted from Swift: Gazprombank, Alfbank and Rosbank.
> 
> More painful steps against Russia
> 
> EU demands the UN to oust Russia from UN Security Council.



So what? Russia has plenty of trees. Print 100 trillion rubles. Plus, consumer goods import from China is surging. Russian standard of living is increasing.









China’s Exports to the US Decline While Shipments to Russia Surge


China’s exports to the US shrank for the first time in more than two years while shipments to Russia surged, adding to evidence that slowing economies and the war in Ukraine are shifting global trade flows along geopolitical fault lines.




www.bloomberg.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573361069636349953

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573364862540980225

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573322398346235905


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573364862540980225



Mohajer-6 is Iranian counterpart of TB2.

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## Viet

Ukraine army pressing on offensive at Donbas, retaking areas of Yatskivka and Bakhmut.





















Ukraine pushes east into Donbas as Russia holds 'sham' annexation polls


The Ukrainian military has recaptured a village in the eastern Donetsk region, as well as territory around the key town of Bakhmut in Donbas, a senior officer said on Friday. The military gains come…




amp.france24.com


----------



## 1ndy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Relax. This is the first forever war in human history. In the past wars ended. This is the first war that will never end.


Hey, India going to have more population than China very soon... China can't win against India by your reasoning. 





Spoiler: Fun



Look, now weapons will start to play a decisive role.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ukraine army pressing on offensive at Donbas, retaking areas of Yatskivka and Bakhmut.
> 
> 
> View attachment 882122
> 
> 
> View attachment 882123
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine pushes east into Donbas as Russia holds 'sham' annexation polls
> 
> 
> The Ukrainian military has recaptured a village in the eastern Donetsk region, as well as territory around the key town of Bakhmut in Donbas, a senior officer said on Friday. The military gains come…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.france24.com



They will soon face the full might of Russia which has 4 times the population of Ukraine. If I were them, I flee to Canada.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573361456887861248


----------



## 1ndy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> They will soon face the full might of Russia which has 4 times the population of Ukraine. If I were them, I flee to Canada.


Why are you in Canada and not in oldest continuous civilization?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

1ndy said:


> Why are you in Canada and not in oldest continuous civilization?



I immigrated. Soon Canada will be Chinese majority.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573102815643598848


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573370032125784064



Ambushes against Russian forces continue

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573288761844461569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573324653648809984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573325603624947712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573320082201186304

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573391343598309376

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## Reashot Xigwin

No forces on heaven & earth can separate a russian from his bottle. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573328142563168263


----------



## mike2000 is back

ZeGerman said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> academiccommons.columbia.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHO records 100th attack on health care in Ukraine
> 
> 
> A grim milestone has been crossed today in the war in Ukraine – more than 100 attacks on health care verified by WHO since the start of the war on 24 February. The attacks so far have claimed 73 lives and injured 51.Of the current total of 103 attacks, 89 have impacted health facilities and 13...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.who.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **** off with your propaganda.
> Russia bombed 10 times the health facilities and you are trying to paint them as being “kind/soft” here….


They are Russian wannabes 🤣 yet they run away or won't help join putins conscription. They are only good in being keyboard warriors and cheering Russia in the security of their 
most often western homes. 🤣

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## Trango Towers

jhungary said:


> I never said Ukraine were winning, well, there are sign they started to, because that's mobilisation is a sign that Russia is losing.
> 
> Traditionally Winter won't see much fighting, it usually used to build fortification and train up replacement. So once there are winter, there won't be as much movement than we had now.
> 
> And no, NATO alone does is not responsible for it, it takes two to tango, Russia is as much to blame with NATO. And when you are under attack, what should Ukraine do? Roll over and let Russia take it? Bear in mind there are a lot fo way to push back NATO influence in Ukraine, but Russia is the one that choose war. You can say NATO dangle Ukrainian problem in front of Sweden and Finland to have them join their camp, but none of this would happen unless Russia invades, and they did.


My dear this didn't start due to Ukraine...this started more than 25 years ago. The agreement at the demise of the Berlin Wall was that nato will not expand east. Nato expanded east and the red line was Ukraine. Russia has warned for years. Also the Russian speakers in the eat were under stress. So it's not simple
Ukraine as well as any country has the right to resist. However, Russia also has the right to protect its borders so when Russia was saying no nato in Ukraine why didn't Ukraine just build its own military strong. Why was there a need to join nato. 
Now Ukraine will take a 30 years to recover and 100+ years to repay its debt

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## MeFishToo

Trango Towers said:


> My dear this didn't start due to Ukraine...this started more than 25 years ago. The agreement at the demise of the Berlin Wall was that nato will not expand east. Nato expanded east and the red line was Ukraine. Russia has warned for years. Also the Russian speakers in the eat were under stress. So it's not simple
> Ukraine as well as any country has the right to resist. However, Russia also has the right to protect its borders so when Russia was saying no nato in Ukraine why didn't Ukraine just build its own military strong. Why was there a need to join nato.
> Now Ukraine will take a 30 years to recover and 100+ years to repay its debt


Ukraine has every right to defend its territory as it might seem fit. If that includes joining NATO, its none of Russias business. The only reason Russia is against its neighboring country possibly joining NATO, is because it deprives Russia future expansion of its territory.

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## oberschlesier

Trango Towers said:


> My dear this didn't start due to Ukraine...this started more than 25 years ago. The agreement at the demise of the Berlin Wall was that nato will not expand east. Nato expanded east and the red line was Ukraine. Russia has warned for years. Also the Russian speakers in the eat were under stress. So it's not simple
> Ukraine as well as any country has the right to resist. However, Russia also has the right to protect its borders so when Russia was saying no nato in Ukraine why didn't Ukraine just build its own military strong. Why was there a need to join nato.
> Now Ukraine will take a 30 years to recover and 100+ years to repay its debt


The Russian borders are not threten, it`s a nuclear state! It is not easy too understand why the biggest country in the world needs to expand it`s borders.

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## MeFishToo

oberschlesier said:


> The Russian borders are not threten, it`s a nuclear state! It is not easy too understand why the biggest country in the world needs to expand it`s borders.


Kind of strange watching the Kremlin alternating narrative of Russia facing total destruction or being the mightiest country on the planet.

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China seeks revenge for 100 years of Anglo bullying. Anglos invaded China in war and annexed Hong Kong.


Ans Russia invaded at the same time and took Outer Manchuria, which it still keeps.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573256519373692928

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573418550450323456

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> They hire Chinese workers. Chinese workers make missiles in Russia.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573303611685310467
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573304044097097729


They should stick to making underwear and socks

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Tanks are not a gamechanger. What the US should do is hire Blackwater to fight in Ukraine. Print 100 trillion USD and pay each Blackwater 1 million USD to fight in Ukraine. They can mobilize 1 million Blackwater from the US unemployed population to fight in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573314121285734401


We are going to send the 10million Chinese unemployed over with Blackwater. How many Chinatowns are in the US and Europe. And how many 'Anglo towns's are there in China?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> They will soon face the full might of Russia which has 4 times the population of Ukraine. If I were them, I flee to Canada.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573361456887861248


Just like your country men gave up to Japan despite being 20x population. The ultimate humliation you experienced, you are just sad to see it again

Russia has exempted bankers, journalists, tech workers and will likely expand to other urban white collar jobs. So mobilize your peasants once you have run through criminals.

How much did CIA pay Putin to do this? I am just joking of course. CIA couldn't find a way to avoid Trump putting US on a disaster course so the reach to PUtin is untenable

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## 925boy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russian are not people...


...to you!

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573256519373692928


Military Summery: Ukraine lost 2 brigades worth of men while taking Kharkiv area, Oskil area today 2000 ukrainian infantry destroyed at bridgehead, 220 ukrainians destroyed by missile strike, any ukrainian advance just a russian trap… seriously?


----------



## Trango Towers

MeFishToo said:


> Ukraine has every right to defend its territory as it might seem fit. If that includes joining NATO, its none of Russias business. The only reason Russia is against its neighboring country possibly joining NATO, is because it deprives Russia future expansion of its territory.


Iram has every right to make nukes to defend itself its none of Americas business. 
Do u see the problem with your statement?


----------



## MeFishToo

Trango Towers said:


> Iram has every right to make nukes to defend itself its none of Americas business.
> Do u see the problem with your statement?


No I dont.

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## Trango Towers

MeFishToo said:


> No I dont.


Ask someone older they will explain it to u

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## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573256519373692928


120% pro Russia ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573414847202865152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573411410935447552


----------



## Super Falcon

Things are getting out of controll for Putin day by day


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573419551945261056

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## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573414847202865152
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573411410935447552


120% pro Russia, right ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573393275876245504

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573393275876245504


120% pro Russia, right ?


----------



## MeFishToo

Trango Towers said:


> Ask someone older they will explain it to u


In a couple of years you might return and explain it?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> 120% pro Russia, right ?



I am Chinese. Chinese are 1000% pro Russia. Chinese seek revenge for 100 years of Anglo bullying who invaded China and annexed Hong Kong.

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## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I am Chinese. Chinese are 1000% pro Russia. Chinese seek revenge for 100 years of Anglo bullying who invaded China and annexed Hong Kong.


Good, "bla bla" why are you in Canada then ? You don`t like China do you ?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Good, "bla bla" why are you in Canada then ? You don`t like China do you ?



Chinese immigrate to Canada to take over Canada. Canada is only 50% Anglo by now.

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## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese immigrate to Canada to take over Canada. Canada is only 50% Anglo by now.


Why move to Canada ? When China is so great ? You are NOT very credible

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Why move to Canada ? When China is so great ?



Chinese immigrate to Canada to turn Canada into a Chinese majority country.

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## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese immigrate to Canada to turn Canada into a Chinese majority country.


Yes, but why do it ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Yes, but why do it ?



To expand Chinese influence.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573391923783827456


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

925boy said:


> ...to you!


It's hard to humanize people that support bombing children hospital and raping baby

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## Reashot Xigwin

We all keep talking about the military industrial complex starting war but never about the coffin industrial complex. Could it be politicians are in the pockets of Big Coffin? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573302349543661569

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## oberschlesier

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> To expand Chinese influence.


LOL, so do it. European success is the interest of China.


----------



## 925boy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> It's hard to humanize people that support bombing children hospital and raping baby


ha ha ...thats what US was doing in Afghanistan too (wedding processions too; or u forgot the "ISIS planner' that was an NGO worker they killed iwth some kids around the exit from Afghanistan via the Kabul airport? uh!!), and were were you then? exactly- nowhere. Those hospitals were hosting Ukrainian forces most likely, or its propaganda you gladly accepted, which is all your fault.

Contextually and relative to modern wars, Russia has been a benign invader of Ukraine - it has spared SO MANY civilians in so many areas from so much worse harm possible to them.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573296928481320960

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## Reashot Xigwin

925boy said:


> ha ha ...thats what US was doing in Afghanistan too (wedding processions too; or u forgot the "ISIS planner' that was an NGO worker they killed iwth some kids around the exit from Afghanistan via the Kabul airport? uh!!), and were were you then? exactly- nowhere. Those hospitals were hosting Ukrainian forces most likely, or its propaganda you gladly accepted, which is all your fault.
> 
> Contextually and relative to modern wars, Russia has been a benign invader of Ukraine - it has spared SO MANY civilians in so many areas from so much worse harm possible to them.


Okay rapist... 









Bucha massacre - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## PakAlp

Trango Towers said:


> My dear this didn't start due to Ukraine...this started more than 25 years ago. The agreement at the demise of the Berlin Wall was that nato will not expand east. Nato expanded east and the red line was Ukraine. Russia has warned for years. Also the Russian speakers in the eat were under stress. So it's not simple
> Ukraine as well as any country has the right to resist. However, Russia also has the right to protect its borders so when Russia was saying no nato in Ukraine why didn't Ukraine just build its own military strong. Why was there a need to join nato.
> Now Ukraine will take a 30 years to recover and 100+ years to repay its debt



Its a fact Nato wants to expand towards Russia, also through QUAD surround China. Russia had no choice but to finally react but the problem is they're very poor, they should have known how to deal with sanctions (if possible), should have made SCO more strong so they get open support like Nato is giving to Ukraine, have better military planning, have air superiority over Ukraine, be able to destroy all HIMAARs, Tanks etc. They failed at all level. They requested Iran for drones but where are the Russian drones? They have Kronshtadt Orion drone, Sokol Altius drone, advance jets like su30, su35. I am sure these must have laser guided bombs, targeting pods to destroy tanks, HIMAARs etc. If Russia didn't have them then why start a war without them, why not buy from Iran, China and get ready for war before announcing. Like one PDF members mentioned, its command control problem and the higher up are corrupt.

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## PakAlp

925boy said:


> ha ha ...thats what US was doing in Afghanistan too (wedding processions too; or u forgot the "ISIS planner' that was an NGO worker they killed iwth some kids around the exit from Afghanistan via the Kabul airport? uh!!), and were were you then? exactly- nowhere. Those hospitals were hosting Ukrainian forces most likely, or its propaganda you gladly accepted, which is all your fault.
> 
> Contextually and relative to modern wars, Russia has been a benign invader of Ukraine - it has spared SO MANY civilians in so many areas from so much worse harm possible to them.



The amount of human right abuses took place in Iraq and Afghanistan is shocking. We all seen the photos.

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## SalarHaqq

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese immigrate to Canada to turn Canada into a Chinese majority country.



Hope they succeed, and that they are CPC loyalists.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573458316293963779


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573364672161812480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573366530666287104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573339130754473984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573332938170720258


----------



## jhungary

Trango Towers said:


> My dear this didn't start due to Ukraine...this started more than 25 years ago. The agreement at the demise of the Berlin Wall was that nato will not expand east. Nato expanded east and the red line was Ukraine. Russia has warned for years. Also the Russian speakers in the eat were under stress. So it's not simple
> Ukraine as well as any country has the right to resist. However, Russia also has the right to protect its borders so when Russia was saying no nato in Ukraine why didn't Ukraine just build its own military strong. Why was there a need to join nato.
> Now Ukraine will take a 30 years to recover and 100+ years to repay its debt


first of all, even Gorbachev said NATO had not say anything about not to expand Eastward. Notice on his interview with RT's sister publication Russian Beyond, he said that was never discussed



https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html





> *M.G.: The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years*. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.
> 
> Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled. The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been observed all these years. So don’t portray Gorbachev and the then-Soviet authorities as naïve people who were wrapped around the West’s finger. If there was naïveté, it was later, when the issue arose. Russia at first did not object.
> 
> The decision for the U.S. and its allies to expand NATO into the east was decisively made in 1993. I called this a big mistake from the very beginning. It was definitely a violation of the spirit of the statements and assurances made to us in 1990. With regards to Germany, they were legally enshrined and are being observed.



Now I am not there in 1991 when Gorbachev discusses NATO taking over East Germany, and I am certain neither were you, but when Both James Baker and Gorbachev come out and say it was never discussed, the two people who were actually in that discussion, I tend to take their position.

NATO Membership is clear and simple, it does not change since the formation in 1949, if you feel threaten, you can apply, and if all the members agree of your application, you get membership, it has not and did not change for the last 70 odd years

On the other hand, as I said, there are like 100,000 ways to solve this with NATO or Ukraine. They can try to talk to NATO and ask for assurance instead of demand one, they can try to sway the next Ukrainian election like they did with the US and try to install a Pro-Russia government, they can evacuate Russian speaking Ukrainian by giving them passport and freedom to move to Russia, or Russia can apply pressure to Germany and France and even Turkey to have to reject Ukraine membership, Ukraine can't join until all 30 member say yes, and Russia have some degree of hold in Germany and France, they could have done many thousand things, but Russia is the one that choose war.

And you don't need to be a grand strategist to know choosing war is probably the dumbest idea ever because it is winner takes all. it only works if Russia can win, and I am certain Russia think they can win and take Kyiv, but everyone knows it is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN since March 31, so what Russia do? They double down, knowing there are no way for them to win and by then it's pretty clear Zelenskyy government is going to stay in power, this war, the longer it continues, the more hatred that generate from the Ukrainian. There may be less than 50% chance Russia can install a pro-Russia government post Zelenskyy, the chances for this to happen in the next 100 years is almost zero. And the continue on with this war will only serve to militarize Ukraine further and drift them further apart. Now you have a highly motivated and highly energized neighbor that are going to hostile to you for 100 years maybe more, does that achieve what the Russian set out to achieve??

Again, you can blame NATO, I blame NATO because they should either clear cut and say Ukraine will never be accepted or piss off Russia out right and accept their membership instead of these dirty dealing of dangling the issue in front of Sweden and Finland and basically make Ukraine a cautionary tale to them. But then you need to equally blame Russia because they are the one who choose war with numerous action available to them, NATO did not force Russia to go to war with Ukraine, they are hoping for it to, but they did not force it, because nobody can force it, because it would mean using Ukraine to physically attack Russia, it has to be Putin and Russia willingness to go to war for that to happen. I don't know why people cannot see thing as simple as that.

P.S. I am pretty sure by now you should be able to see Ukraine *DID* built a strong army. This is all a Russian miscalculation. They want to win so they burn all the bridges, and then they couldn't

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573321196992864258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573305987188101120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573270291891060738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573257544113561602

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573110854693916673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573314542410813440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573247910078291968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573420466743697427

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1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573247910078291968



Need laser guided 8 inch rounds.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573322917009854469


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573397496793300992

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> Again, you can blame NATO, I blame NATO because they should either clear cut and say Ukraine will never be accepted or piss off Russia out right and accept their membership instead of these dirty dealing of dangling the issue in front of Sweden and Finland and basically make Ukraine a cautionary tale to them.



I agree with this part wholeheartedly. The West is hanging a carrot in front of the Ukraine horse while riding next to the Russian horse. Either feed it or not and not pussyfoot to get extra mileage. 

The Russians were not getting a response, and saying do not invade doesn’t solve the issue either. 

The blame goes to both sides, the West and Russia. Playing devil's advocate, maybe the West wanted this to neutralize Russia in its game against China? Wouldn’t you want to take out some of your enemy's allies before the showdown?


----------



## Wood




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


>


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573356250510893060

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573304857943052290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573430588253560851

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573430622047342597

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PakFactor

925boy said:


> ha ha ...thats what US was doing in Afghanistan too (wedding processions too; or u forgot the "ISIS planner' that was an NGO worker they killed iwth some kids around the exit from Afghanistan via the Kabul airport? uh!!), and were were you then? exactly- nowhere. Those hospitals were hosting Ukrainian forces most likely, or its propaganda you gladly accepted, which is all your fault.
> 
> Contextually and relative to modern wars, Russia has been a benign invader of Ukraine - it has spared SO MANY civilians in so many areas from so much worse harm possible to them.



The Russians were far more brutal in their Afghanistan & Chechnya offensive than in Ukraine. They limp-dicked in Ukraine, but then again, Ukrainians are beautiful blue-eyed blonde-haired. You can't compare that to brown-eyed black-haired serfs.


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## zectech

Rumor has it that there is more than 300000 being called. That is from some chatter on twitter, I have not seen blue-checkmarks discussing this, though twitter members with hundreds of thousands of followers and other Ukrainian and Ukrainian war analysts are mentioning the 300000 is the first group. That there could be more after, up to 1 million.

Ukraine needs tens of thousands more shoulder fire weapons from NATO (anti-tank, RPGs, etc) vs the new 300000 Ivans.

Need to stop the Ivans.

Russia is a mafia state, the Russian mafia and Putin run Russia as a criminal organization as some monopoly game. It is not only Putin that would use nukes to defend this fiefdom. The notoriously cutthroat Russian mafia could order Putin to nuke Europe to protect their money making enterprise known as Russia. The mafia threaten Duma members to support Putin agenda. Not to mention the Chabad who brag that they run the legit and legal part of the Russian economy.

When one of the worst global mafias are the backers of Putin - the Russian mafia - this is more difficult to take down Putin than the USSR in the 80s and 90s. Putin is eventually going to step down, though the thugs that back Putin - The Russian Mafia, The Russian Oligarchs and Chabad are not leaving Russia as their money making scheme with one of the largest militaries. Gorbachev was a kinder person than Putin, was not backed by many criminals such as Putin, when Gorbachev let the USSR collapse, that was a one moment event. Putin and criminal backers is going to be much tougher to dethrone and transition to neo-liberalism. Putin persecuted the WJC leader(s) in Russia, perhaps because it was too neo-liberal, and pro-European. The Trumpian/Putinian Chabad took its place. What Trump is, is what Chabad is. Trump openly hates the Jews of the neo-liberal movement, same as Putin with the WJC. Behind closed doors are things different.?. For there to be democratic change in Russia. Putin and the Russia mafia need to go. Chabad and the Oligarchs could morph into faux neo-libs making money. For true democracy, there needs to be no Oligarchs and Putin billionaires in Russia. A clean slate for Russia. To take down these groups - Putin and cronies, Russia mafia and cronies, Russia oligarch and cronies, etc is very difficult. The only way to do this is to expose the entire Putin facade of criminal groups in Russia. Then reject it and embrace democracy.

Down with the Putin Ivans. Never liked those orcs.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

zectech said:


> Rumor has it that there is more than 300000 being called. That is from some chatter on twitter, I have not seen blue-checkmarks discussing this, though twitter members with hundreds of thousands of followers and other Ukrainian and Ukrainian war analysts are mentioning the 300000 is the first group. That there could be more after, up to 1 million.
> 
> Ukraine needs tens of thousands more shoulder fire weapons from NATO (anti-tank, RPGs, etc) vs the new 300000 Ivans.
> 
> Need to stop the Ivans.
> 
> Russia is a mafia state, the Russian mafia and Putin run Russia as a criminal organization as some monopoly game. It is not only Putin that would use nukes to defend this fiefdom. The notoriously cutthroat Russian mafia could order Putin to nuke Europe to protect their money making enterprise known as Russia. The mafia threaten Duma members to support Putin agenda. Not to mention the Chabad who brag that they run the legit and legal part of the Russian economy.
> 
> When one of the worst global mafias are the backers of Putin - the Russian mafia - this is more difficult to take down Putin than the USSR in the 80s and 90s. Putin is eventually going to step down, though the thugs that back Putin - The Russian Mafia, The Russian Oligarchs and Chabad are not leaving Russia as their money making scheme with one of the largest militaries. Gorbachev was a kinder person than Putin, was not backed by many criminals such as Putin, when Gorbachev let the USSR collapse, that was a one moment event. Putin and criminal backers is going to be much tougher to dethrone and transition to neo-liberalism. Putin persecuted the WJC leader(s) in Russia, perhaps because it was too neo-liberal, and pro-European. The Trumpian/Putinian Chabad took its place. What Trump is, is what Chabad is. Trump openly hates the Jews of the neo-liberal movement, same as Putin with the WJC. Behind closed doors are things different.?. For there to be democratic change in Russia. Putin and the Russia mafia need to go. Chabad and the Oligarchs could morph into faux neo-libs making money. For true democracy, there needs to be no Oligarchs and Putin billionaires in Russia. A clean slate for Russia. To take down these groups - Putin and cronies, Russia mafia and cronies, Russia oligarch and cronies, etc is very difficult. The only way to do this is to expose the entire Putin facade of criminal groups in Russia. Then reject it and embrace democracy.



Fascism has more power than democracy.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573258612318814213

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573258612318814213



Albert _Einstein_ — 'I know not with what weapons _World War_ III will be fought, but _World War_ IV will be fought with _sticks_ and stones.'


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## ziaulislam

After a year we are seeing some sense and clear goal of what putins wants to do

He wants to annex 4 areas of ukraine. 

With full mobilzation will he bring ruthless aerial campaign to the table..

If he does the war will be more destructive and devasting but i think we will see acheivements of goals within 2 months









Russia's mobilisation explained | Russian President Putin has ordered a partial mobilisation of military reservists to bolster his forces in Ukraine. Analysts say he's doing “whatever he... | By Al Jazeera English | Facebook


1.1M views, 13K likes, 369 loves, 3.1K comments, 1.9K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Al Jazeera English: Russian President Putin has ordered a partial mobilisation of military reservists to...




fb.watch

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## zectech

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573394045187260416
Trump informing to Putin and other dictators on pro-democracy proponents informing to putinesque dictators around the globe.

Trump and Putin are the vanguard of authoritarian thugs of the criminal deepstate of united Russia-Washington-London redux-ed criminals. The criminals of the Bush years found their leaders - Trump and Putin.






Trump and Putin are neo-con PNACers. The enemy is the EU for Project for New American Century.









Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède


Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède




www.theguardian.com





Could Washington focus on destroying the Putinites of China and Iran and Venezuela. And not NATO Europe.





__





Loading…






www.theatlantic.com




​President-Elect Trump Calls Alliance 'Obsolete' In Interview With London Newspaper​








What Is Trump's Beef With NATO?


Six months ago, he told the New York Times he wouldn't help allies unless they pay their bills. Now he's calling the whole alliance "obsolete."




www.ibtimes.com





Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book​








Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book


‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said




news.yahoo.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573416019712000001

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## khansaheeb

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573416019712000001


​
Kh-47M2 Kinzhal - Wikipedia​https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Kh-47M2_Kinzhal



The Kh-47M2 _Kinzhal_ is a Russian nuclear-capable hypersonic aero-ballistic air-to-surface _missile_. It has a claimed range of more than 2,000 km (1,200 mi), ...
Maximum speed: Mach 10 – Mach 12 (12,300...
Warhead weight: up to 500 kg (1,100 lb)
Operational range: : More than 2,000 km (1,200 ...
Warhead: Nuclear (100–500 kT) or HE fragme...‎
‎Air-launched ballistic missile · ‎Plasma stealth · ‎Deliatyn

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## K_Bin_W

If Russia loses NATO won
If Russia wins Ukraine lost

Always remember that.

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## jhungary

Putin draft just gone haywire. 

Report suggested that Russian do not have all the information they needed for draft, stuff like drafting the wrong person with the same name with one case a person 63 years of ages were alleged being drafted on his son's notice. List that are not valid, there are report that Russian try to draft people who are already deceased. And also drafting people seemingly randomly whether or not they had served with the Armed force, like miner, mechanic, and builder that had not been in conscription system before.

Perhaps the most telling is the 70% of the current draft is on Minority in Dagestan, Khabarovsk and Far East region, with Russin metro only received 15% of the draft notice.... 

lol.......what kind of draft is this??,.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

K_Bin_W said:


> If Russia loses NATO won
> If Russia wins Ukraine lost
> 
> Always remember that.



China wins no matter who wins. The economies of Russia and Ukraine depend on China. The US cannot help either. Both Russia and Ukraine are client states of China.

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## K_Bin_W

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China wins no matter who wins. The economies of Russia and Ukraine depend on China. The US cannot help either. Both Russia and Ukraine are client states of China.


China wins regardless nothing to do with Russo/Ukri fight.

Like they say it's the economy stupid.

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## khansaheeb

ziaulislam said:


> After a year we are seeing some sense and clear goal of what putins wants to do
> 
> He wants to annex 4 areas of ukraine.
> 
> With full mobilzation will he bring ruthless aerial campaign to the table..
> 
> If he does the war will be more destructive and devasting but i think we will see acheivements of goals within 2 months
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's mobilisation explained | Russian President Putin has ordered a partial mobilisation of military reservists to bolster his forces in Ukraine. Analysts say he's doing “whatever he... | By Al Jazeera English | Facebook
> 
> 
> 1.1M views, 13K likes, 369 loves, 3.1K comments, 1.9K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Al Jazeera English: Russian President Putin has ordered a partial mobilisation of military reservists to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fb.watch


 Europe is in trouble and not only dependent on Russia for fuel but is also dependent on US for security and neither is cheap. The more Russia threatens the Europoodles the more money the US makes. Any Europoodles who step out of line could end up in a proxy war with calamitous results. As for Putin not sure which side he is on, either he is playing the fool and fu(king Russian people up or he is an evil man readying for Armageddon. His grandeur Soviet Union style invasion with the monetary fund of a pauper has caused a well planned quagmire andthe key question is what will he do if his mass mobilised force fails? Yes, that N-world flies to the mind, the all or nothing of a deranged gambler.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

K_Bin_W said:


> China wins regardless nothing to do with Russo/Ukri fight.
> 
> Like they say it's the economy stupid.



It is to China's benefit this war is a forever war.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> I agree with this part wholeheartedly. The West is hanging a carrot in front of the Ukraine horse while riding next to the Russian horse. Either feed it or not and not pussyfoot to get extra mileage.
> 
> The Russians were not getting a response, and saying do not invade doesn’t solve the issue either.
> 
> The blame goes to both sides, the West and Russia. Playing devil's advocate, maybe the West wanted this to neutralize Russia in its game against China? Wouldn’t you want to take out some of your enemy's allies before the showdown?


I don't know, it's like I sleep with your wife, and you punch me, I will not go to jail, you will. I mean, if you use the reason "Because I sleep with your wife" in court, it just wouldn't fly.

Problem is, NATO probably didn't think Russia will be stupid enough to actually invade Ukraine, if I am a betting man, I think NATO intentionally put this Infront of Ukraine and try to get some action from Russia, the action they are expecting is most likely a ramp up of the proxy war using the separatist force, you will have to say this, it would be pretty dumb for Russia to actually invade Ukraine to begin with, anyone with a sane mind would know the day they invade is the day they are losing the strategic game, because even if they rolled over Ukraine, which they didn't, Russia will most likely push Sweden and Finland toward NATO and alienate Russian own allies, because don't forget, Ukrainian are like "Brothers" to Russian, in fact, a lot of family connection between the two countries, it not hard to find some Ukrainian have family member living in Russia and vice versa, and if they can invade them, what won't they do??

But then Russian really did invade and then they failed. Instead of calling off this failure, they double down, I mean, sure, maybe there is a way for peace in March and hope that things will go back to normal one day, with who know how many thousand Ukrainian died defending their home now? That's really unlikely the two countries would mend their ties, it will more or less become Israel and Palestine, or India and Pakistan in term of relationship from now on. 

On the other hand, there are really a lot of ways to solve the NATO issue, if that is really the problem here, but it wouldn't really take much to know NATO was not the issue with Ukrainian War, even before the leak of Ukrainian Okay on not joining NATO in turn of a Russian stand down, that's because Ukraine cannot join NATO unilaterally, they will need all 30 countries approve to be able to, so it wasn't just focus on Ukraine, if Russia don't ever want Ukraine to join? They can pressure France or Germany or Turkey or most easily Hungary to reject their application. And then they can try to insert influence on the Ukrainian government and hope to gain the government back with a pro-Russia regime. 

On the other hand, NATO had already been enveloped Russia on three side, From Latvia and Estonia to the West to Turkey in the South, and Alaska in the East, NATO encroachment really wouldn't make any strategic balance to Russia, in fact now that Finland is joining, attacking Ukraine did the exact opposite to what Russia set out on, because it is about to gain 1200 km border with NATO when, not if, Finland join. And then NATO will really be completely enveloping Russian on all 4 side, and the only side of Russia is not facing NATO is in the North in the Arctics. 

So yes, NATO is expecting something, but never would they expect Russia really go all in with this and invade Ukraine themselves. and when this happen, what can you do? Would you be allowing this to happen because Russia invaded? You won't, that's why there are fighting now. And this will not be ending anytime soon, and the more this drag on, the more it put both countries down, the only different is, the West is going to help Ukraine rebuild, I don't think China will do to Russia, Russia is going to be a hot pile of shit after this war where nobody want to touch, and if you ask me, they are their own making, and they asked for it. And you can't blame NATO on this.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukraine was created by the Soviet Communist Party in 1920. Putin denounces the Communists. Therefore, Putin does not recognize Ukraine as a country. Therefore, Putin considers Ukraine as temporarily occupied land.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573397496793300992


Has nothing to do with Ukraine, get sad


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573511372972990485


----------



## RoadAmerica

zectech said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573394045187260416
> Trump informing to Putin and other dictators on pro-democracy proponents informing to putinesque dictators around the globe.
> 
> Trump and Putin are the vanguard of authoritarian thugs of the criminal deepstate of united Russia-Washington-London redux-ed criminals. The criminals of the Bush years found their leaders - Trump and Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump and Putin are neo-con PNACers. The enemy is the EU for Project for New American Century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède
> 
> 
> Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could Washington focus on destroying the Putinites of China and Iran and Venezuela. And not NATO Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​President-Elect Trump Calls Alliance 'Obsolete' In Interview With London Newspaper​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Is Trump's Beef With NATO?
> 
> 
> Six months ago, he told the New York Times he wouldn't help allies unless they pay their bills. Now he's calling the whole alliance "obsolete."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ibtimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book
> 
> 
> ‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com


Trumps still not president, boy are you dense


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> I don't know, it's like I sleep with your wife, and you punch me, I will not go to jail, you will. I mean, if you use the reason "Because I sleep with your wife" in court, it just wouldn't fly.
> 
> Problem is, NATO probably didn't think Russia will be stupid enough to actually invade Ukraine, if I am a betting man, I think NATO intentionally put this Infront of Ukraine and try to get some action from Russia, the action they are expecting is most likely a ramp up of the proxy war using the separatist force, you will have to say this, it would be pretty dumb for Russia to actually invade Ukraine to begin with, anyone with a sane mind would know the day they invade is the day they are losing the strategic game, because even if they rolled over Ukraine, which they didn't, Russia will most likely push Sweden and Finland toward NATO and alienate Russian own allies, because don't forget, Ukrainian are like "Brothers" to Russian, in fact, a lot of family connection between the two countries, it not hard to find some Ukrainian have family member living in Russia and vice versa, and if they can invade them, what won't they do??
> 
> But then Russian really did invade and then they failed. Instead of calling off this failure, they double down, I mean, sure, maybe there is a way for peace in March and hope that things will go back to normal one day, with who know how many thousand Ukrainian died defending their home now? That's really unlikely the two countries would mend their ties, it will more or less become Israel and Palestine, or India and Pakistan in term of relationship from now on.
> 
> On the other hand, there are really a lot of ways to solve the NATO issue, if that is really the problem here, but it wouldn't really take much to know NATO was not the issue with Ukrainian War, even before the leak of Ukrainian Okay on not joining NATO in turn of a Russian stand down, that's because Ukraine cannot join NATO unilaterally, they will need all 30 countries approve to be able to, so it wasn't just focus on Ukraine, if Russia don't ever want Ukraine to join? They can pressure France or Germany or Turkey or most easily Hungary to reject their application. And then they can try to insert influence on the Ukrainian government and hope to gain the government back with a pro-Russia regime.
> 
> On the other hand, NATO had already been enveloped Russia on three side, From Latvia and Estonia to the West to Turkey in the South, and Alaska in the East, NATO encroachment really wouldn't make any strategic balance to Russia, in fact now that Finland is joining, attacking Ukraine did the exact opposite to what Russia set out on, because it is about to gain 1200 km border with NATO when, not if, Finland join. And then NATO will really be completely enveloping Russian on all 4 side, and the only side of Russia is not facing NATO is in the North in the Arctics.
> 
> So yes, NATO is expecting something, but never would they expect Russia really go all in with this and invade Ukraine themselves. and when this happen, what can you do? Would you be allowing this to happen because Russia invaded? You won't, that's why there are fighting now. And this will not be ending anytime soon, and the more this drag on, the more it put both countries down, the only different is, the West is going to help Ukraine rebuild, I don't think China will do to Russia, Russia is going to be a hot pile of shit after this war where nobody want to touch, and if you ask me, they are their own making, and they asked for it. And you can't blame NATO on this.



China will increase support for Russia. A weaker Ukraine is a good thing for China. A weaker Ukraine means less American influence in Europe. A weaker Ukraine is more dependent on China for economy.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sammuel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573257544113561602



" *In case* of accession of Donbass and South Ukraine regions following referendum " 

I am sure all here are holding their breath wondering what will be the results of this referendum.

~

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> " *In case* of accession of Donbass and South Ukraine regions following referendum "
> 
> I am sure all here are holding their breath wondering what will be the results of this referendum.
> 
> ~



I think it will be some years. In 2014 Donbas declared secession from Ukraine. It wasn't until 2022 Putin recognized their independence. First, they must destroy all Ukrainian army located in Kherson, Zaporezia, Donetsk, Luhansk. After that, parliament introduce bill of annexation, then president signs the bill, then parliament ratifies the bill. In the case of Crimea, there was no Ukrainian army left in Crimea when they did the referendum, so annexation was quick.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Putin draft just gone haywire.
> 
> Report suggested that Russian do not have all the information they needed for draft, stuff like drafting the wrong person with the same name with one case a person 63 years of ages were alleged being drafted on his son's notice. List that are not valid, there are report that Russian try to draft people who are already deceased. And also drafting people seemingly randomly whether or not they had served with the Armed force, like miner, mechanic, and builder that had not been in conscription system before.
> 
> Perhaps the most telling is the 70% of the current draft is on Minority in Dagestan, Khabarovsk and Far East region, with Russin metro only received 15% of the draft notice....
> 
> lol.......what kind of draft is this??,.


Putin is like a Mafia gangster that goes around the neighborhood.

You are right. That will take weeks, months to draft them. That will months further to make them fit. Those freshmen, women will be shifted like animals to front.

that however will not change anything fundamental on battlefield. Those unmotivated, unfit personals will slow Ukraine offensive a bit, but that’s all.

Russia army has lost the initiative and will never regain it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573553987843985408


----------



## sammuel

jhungary said:


> Where are the 450 M1 Abrams that the Marine just gave up? Where are the 142 M1128 Mobile Guns Platform the Army just retired this year? How about the M270 the Marine replaced with HIMARS?



On another issue ,

I looked again today at the US weapons list to see what they can easily spare that would still make a difference.

And the most obvious candidate is the M109A6 "Paladin".

US has 1000 of those , and can easily spare 100 or more.

With an inertial navigation system, sensors detecting the weapons' lay, automation, and an encrypted digital communication system. I am sure they are more advanced than most of what the Russians have.

Your thoughts on this ?







M109A6 "Paladin".


~
​

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> On another issue ,
> 
> I looked again today at the US weapons list to see what they can easily spare that would still make a difference.
> 
> And the most obvious candidate is the M109A6 "Paladin".
> 
> US has 1000 of those , and can easily spare 100 or more.
> 
> With an inertial navigation system, sensors detecting the weapons' lay, automation, and an encrypted digital communication system. I am sure they are more advanced than most of what the Russians have.
> 
> Your thoughts on this ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M109A6 "Paladin".
> 
> 
> ~
> ​



Americans have lost spirit. They do not think Ukraine can win out numbered 1 to 4 and with no military hardware infrastructure.


----------



## jhungary

sammuel said:


> On another issue ,
> 
> I looked again today at the US weapons list to see what they can easily spare that would still make a difference.
> 
> And the most obvious candidate is the M109A6 "Paladin".
> 
> US has 1000 of those , and can easily spare 100 or more.
> 
> With an inertial navigation system, sensors detecting the weapons' lay, automation, and an encrypted digital communication system. I am sure they are more advanced than most of what the Russians have.
> 
> Your thoughts on this ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M109A6 "Paladin".
> 
> 
> ~
> ​


US have a bunch of weapons they can send, but one way or another, they decided not to transfer any of this.

The Official position for Biden is they want to leave room for negotiation and don't want to get the war hot, I mean if they pour these article in it and then turn around and as Russia for negotiation, it seems like not a genuine move.

About the M109A6, I have had a very serious discussion with @Oldman1 about the transfer of them, the Ukrainian need a lot M109 for offensive push, I think the Norwegian has transferred around 20 of them and was thinking of US will make a matching move and donate another 20 but then that was never materialised. I would say they will need around 200 to make a different across the board. But that most likely a dream number. 

On the other hand, the way the Ukrainian operate, we are probably better off send them tank than offensive artillery, because offensive artillery softens up a position, that is the kind of war they are doing in buildup area down south. In the east tho, that is wide open country, the speedy counter offensive is an example how a shift and mobile force can exploit an unprepared enemy, which is what Russian Army is, if the Ukrainian had a couple of hundred of Western Tank at their disposal during that counter offensive, they would have made a bigger gain then they did

You can't chase your enemy away with SPG, but you can with tank. That is why Western Tank (Abrams and Leo) have remained on the top of their wish list since April.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573433176122445836

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Americans have lost spirit. They do not think Ukraine can win out numbered 1 to 4 and with no military hardware infrastructure.


Keep trolling
The US is the biggest winner from this disaster.
Meanwhile in Russia industrial paradise, two biggest Germany’s industrial giants, Thyssen and Bosch unwind activity and close factories.









Deutsche Konzerne ziehen sich zunehmend aus Russland zurück - WELT


Die Teilmobilisierung der russischen Streitkräfte lässt nicht nur junge Russen das Land verlassen. Auch deutsche Industriekonzerne wie Thyssenkrupp und Bosch wollen sich nun weiter zurückziehen.




www.welt.de


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## Reashot Xigwin

No word

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573309789475852288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573323004653846528

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573374653128744960

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin is like a Mafia gangster that goes around the neighborhood.
> 
> You are right. That will take weeks, months to draft them. That will months further to make them fit. Those freshmen, women will be shifted like animals to front.
> 
> that however will not change anything fundamental on battlefield. Those unmotivated, unfit personals will slow Ukraine offensive a bit, but that’s all.
> 
> Russia army has lost the initiative and will never regain it.


The thing about Russian initiative is, they are maintained by a small group of motivated troops

The problem? Those troop has been on the frontline since the start of the war, experienced all the ups and downs of this war. It's one thing if they encounter victories after victories, that way their status is still fresh and their morale high. But that is not the case here, since the initial sucess in March, it all went downhill for more of the Russian unit, the frontline has been static since July (it's nearly October) and then they are beaten back, got tossed around and bombarded every day since. They are what we called "Worn Out" troop, there are no fight in them anymore, you need to pull them back, have them gone thru R&R and regroup and more importantly reconstitute. Get them away from the battlefield a few days or weeks and then come back to a sustained tempo. You can't keep them up and up without break.

That was what these 300,000 troops comes in, they are designed to give this force a break, but then these 300,000 are untrained, and equally unmotivated, if the original troop were lost fighting this war, these fresh conscripts are probably even more lost and wondering what are they doing here? When the Kremlin told them everything is alright and every time there are these pressers, they always say, "The Operation is going according to plan" Yet there they are, dropped off in the front line regardless of whether or not Putin will use them for a push. You can image what kind of through going thru these people's mind when they are being processed at depot.

They are never going to win war with soldier like that, there are way too many lies for the Russian to see and to find their true position in this war. In a normal, logical sense, I will pull everything off and just restart the whole thing, but then that's not Putin was doing, he is trying to reinforce a failure, believing referendum would means cessation of hostility is stupid, Ukrainian are already fighting the Russian Army, in and out of Russian land, what make you think now calling these lands are mind now would make any different? If it would be so, they would have stopped fighting the moment they know it was the Russian who is attacking them. 

So yes, the longer it drag out, the more it hurt Russia, Putin is running the country down to a shithole, I am seriously surprised there are no one in Russia making a move yet to dispose of him. There was news that there was an attempt on his life but, well, I would not want to be a Russian in the next 30 years

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## Reashot Xigwin

Something less depressing to watch after posting russian warcrimes. Aaahhh I love Lubach too bad there's not a lot of english subs for his shows


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572933094893559808

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## sammuel

jhungary said:


> US have a bunch of weapons they can send, but one way or another, they decided not to transfer any of this.
> 
> The Official position for Biden is they want to leave room for negotiation and don't want to get the war hot, I mean if they pour these article in it and then turn around and as Russia for negotiation, it seems like not a genuine move.



I can understand main will here is to see this war end as soon as possible.

The question is what will be the fastest way to do it ? Will more arms for arming Ukraine end the war sooner or not.

There are two things that have changed in recent weeks that now need to be considered.

First Ukraine has proven it can take a lot of land back , and might actually win this war.

The other thing is Putin mobilization , that demonstrate he has no intention of ending this war any time soon , by some sort of a compromise.

As much as this mobilization exposed Russia weaknesses and was subject for jokes , still US can't just ignore this move. It will need to match the Russians mobilization by strengthening and resupplying Ukraine . At least to the level where they can fend of any Russians new attacks


~

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## A.P. Richelieu

Clutch said:


> Putin n should really just deploy nukes over Ukraine. There is no way the rest of the world will confront Russia for a total nuclear war. It's just the same as the Americans did to Japan. For world peace you need to drop a few. It's a necessary burden.
> 
> Nuke Ukraine for World peace. ☮️
> Just like Japan in WWII


Wargaming shows that the best route after Russia is using a single nuke is an all-in attack with nuclear weapons, because the single nuke is going to be followed by others. While at it, I suspect that the US is going to call in a few debts.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573589410175746048
This is the kind of "rifles" reservists receive,can't wait to see the state of their vehicles!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Something less depressing to watch after posting russian warcrimes. Aaahhh I love Lubach too bad there's not a lot of english subs for his shows
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572933094893559808


Russia is depressing. By this pace of decline Netherlands GDP will surpass Russia.

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## Broccoli

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573589410175746048
> This is the kind of "rifles" reservists receive,can't wait to see the state of their vehicles!



Clearly a military superpower.

I bet their reserve tanks are in same condition.

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## jhungary

sammuel said:


> I can understand main will here is to see this war end as soon as possible.
> 
> The question is what will be the fastest way to do it ? Will more arms for arming Ukraine end the war sooner or not.
> 
> There are two things that have changed in recent weeks that now need to be considered.
> 
> First Ukraine has proven it can take a lot of land back , and might actually win this war.
> 
> The other thing is Putin mobilization , that demonstrate he has no intention of ending this war any time soon , by some sort of a compromise.
> 
> As much as this mobilization exposed Russia weaknesses and was subject for jokes , still US can't just ignore this move. It will need to match the Russians mobilization by strengthening and resupplying Ukraine . At least to the level where they can fend of any Russians new attacks
> 
> 
> ~


It depends. This war will NOT end with Ukraine took back all their territories, be it pre-2022 or pre-2014. This war can only end when Russia ambition in Ukraine is quashed, once and for all, otherwise even if Ukraine expelled the Russian completely on the ground, as long as Putin is still in charge or whoever take over still have ambition in Ukraine, that will follow a low-high-low intensity conflict between the 2 countries. 

The only way to end this war is when we get Ukraine NATO membership or security guarantee to that level, before we didn't do that because again, we don't want to be antagonising Russia, but now Russia had invaded, all bets are off, I think all cards should be on the table, and what this counter offensive show Ukraine is worthy of NATO membership, I think they probably fought better than most country in NATO. So until NATO membership or some sort of legally binding security pact is secured for Ukraine, this war will not end.

For this war to end, it also depends on how or what Ukraine want, do they want to take back all of Ukraine? Or do they just want to get back to Pre-2022 line. That was said by Zelenskyy many times, it depends on what the Ukrainian people want, they would have to vote for any cease fire agreement. And Ukraine have demonstrated that they have the requirement to retake their land, Crimea included. 

In fact, what my friend said to me this morning is very funny, but true, what if NATO offer Ukraine membership for NATO now that Russia escalated to annex those part of Ukraine? I think we should call Russian bluff, and see how it goes on the other hand, and let them taste their own medicine, I mean if Russia is allowed to do that, why not the west cannot offer Ukraine NATO Membership? That would solve 2 things. 1.) It will stop Russian from further attacking Ukraine, any missile landed in Lviv, Kyiv, Odessa or Kharkiv would be considered an act of war on NATO, article 5 applies, and we rollback Pre-2022 for Ukraine. If Russia decided not to attack, then there will be peace for what left of Ukraine. The downside is, Ukraine would have to accept the loss of their territories for the NATO membership, not sure how Ukrainian People will take that.

But other than that, I don't see a way this war is going to end soon, or quickly, even after Ukrainian repel all Russian advance.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573586822311153664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573552647986204672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573411364621914112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573384984282689538


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## Reashot Xigwin

sammuel said:


> I can understand main will here is to see this war end as soon as possible.
> 
> The question is what will be the fastest way to do it ? Will more arms for arming Ukraine end the war sooner or not.
> 
> There are two things that have changed in recent weeks that now need to be considered.
> 
> First Ukraine has proven it can take a lot of land back , and might actually win this war.
> 
> The other thing is Putin mobilization , that demonstrate he has no intention of ending this war any time soon , by some sort of a compromise.
> 
> As much as this mobilization exposed Russia weaknesses and was subject for jokes , still US can't just ignore this move. It will need to match the Russians mobilization by strengthening and resupplying Ukraine . At least to the level where they can fend of any Russians new attacks
> 
> 
> ~


There's a reason the US doesn't send all their big guns to Ukraine to quickly end the war, One major reason is that a quick war will just left Putin still in charge, Russian military still mostly intact and their populations more bitter & resentful of the west. 

But if the war are prolonged like you see now. Russia will be weakened in the long run. Their population will be angry more at their own government than the west. I say we just watch & see if the situation demanded that the US sends more weapons.

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese immigrate to Canada to take over Canada. Canada is only 50% Anglo by now.


Dont worry, if they carry on like this, they wont stay in Canada long.


----------



## The SC

HaHaHaHa!

































thetutle said:


> Dont worry, if they carry on like this, they wont stay in Canada long.


You have no idea man,, they do control a lot of things here,, beyond your imagination..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573617744347537408

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## The SC

Love Ukrain but not Zioneltsky ,,

















Here western girls dancing to Katyucha





Some civilization!!!

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## thetutle

The SC said:


> You have no idea man,, they do control a lot of things here,, beyond your imagination..


If they engage in anti Canada activities they will be rounded up very quick and chipped off back to where they came from or interned.


----------



## The SC

thetutle said:


> If they engage in anti Canada activities they will be rounded up very quick and chipped off back to where they came from or interned.


Not at all..they were the first to build the all over Canada's railways.. they are extremely entranched in the Canadian society.. told you ..you have no idea..


----------



## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine fights with 1 to 4 deficiency in man power. Think Confederates versus Unions. It is not sustainable.


Did confederates have HIMARS? or satellites?



Trango Towers said:


> My dear this didn't start due to Ukraine...this started more than 25 years ago. The agreement at the demise of the Berlin Wall was that nato will not expand east. Nato expanded east and the red line was Ukraine. Russia has warned for years. Also the Russian speakers in the eat were under stress. So it's not simple
> Ukraine as well as any country has the right to resist. However, Russia also has the right to protect its borders so when Russia was saying no nato in Ukraine why didn't Ukraine just build its own military strong. Why was there a need to join nato.
> Now Ukraine will take a 30 years to recover and 100+ years to repay its debt


Ukraine didnt join NATO, so all is well. NATO had to expand because the people in Eastern Europe had enough of Russian rule and waiting in line for toilet paper. They said no more. 


sammuel said:


> With an inertial navigation system, sensors detecting the weapons' lay, automation, and an encrypted digital communication system. I am sure they are more advanced than most of what the Russians have.


You are sure they are more advanced? you wold be right!


sammuel said:


> The question is what will be the fastest way to do it ? Will more arms for arming Ukraine end the war sooner or not.


The fastest way to end the war is to stop arming Ukraine and Arm Russia with HIAMRS and military intelligence. If your aim is to end the wart quickly. 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Wargaming shows that the best route after Russia is using a single nuke is an all-in attack with nuclear weapons, because the single nuke is going to be followed by others. While at it, I suspect that the US is going to call in a few debts.


A full nuclear first strike by USA, will probably be successful, I am sure it can be won without Russia being able to retaliate in a meaningful way. I think this has always been the case. in the last 20 years americas ability to do this is increased may times over. It would be all over in 45 minutes if a decision is made. US has classified tech that we odnt know much about., but I know for a fact they can sink every Russian submarine almost simultaneously. They know where the silos are, and nuke armed butler busters can take them out, they show where the airfields and bombers are and they track mobile launchers with those micro satlltelites. 

I think US will not do this as they are saving this capability for China. Once the Chinese see what US can do, the element of surprise is gone in the future. So they wont be striking russia with nukes. 

I think they will just isolate russia it if uses nukes and maybe sink their navy and say the ukrnaians did it. 


jhungary said:


> If Russia decided not to attack, then there will be peace for what left of Ukraine. The downside is, Ukraine would have to accept the loss of their territories for the NATO membership, not sure how Ukrainian People will take that.


The issue probably wont be solved in our lifetime. It will require a regime change in Russia. West will need to win a second Cold War. It will be a frozen conflict.



The SC said:


> Not at all..they were the first to build the all over Canada's railways.. they are extremely entranched in the Canadian society.. told you ..you have no idea..


Canada will defend itself against any hostile foreign population that has received Canadian passports recently. Have no worry about that. 

Australia can already take their citizzneship away if they act for a foreign power. And if people have to be rounded up, trust me the local population can't wait.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> There's a reason the US doesn't send all their big guns to Ukraine to quickly end the war, One major reason is that a quick war will just left Putin still in charge, Russian military still mostly intact and their populations more bitter & resentful of the west.
> 
> But if the war are prolonged like you see now. Russia will be weakened in the long run. Their population will be angry more at their own government than the west. I say we just watch & see if the situation demanded that the US sends more weapons.


The war can be over in 1 month, says Ukraine, if the West just provides 1/100 of its capabilities. Tanks, aircraft, missiles, drones, etc.
But the US, UK, Germany goal is to squeeze Russia slowly to death. Military, economy, diplomacy so Russia can never invade any country again. There is concern about Russia nuclear arsenals thus the West is hesitant.


----------



## The SC

thetutle said:


> Did confederates have HIMARS? or satellites?
> 
> 
> Ukraine didnt join NATO, so all is well. NATO had to expand because the people in Eastern Europe had enough of Russian rule and waiting in line for toilet paper. They said no more.
> 
> You are sure they are more advanced? you wold be right!
> 
> The fastest way to end the war is to stop arming Ukraine and Arm Russia with HIAMRS and military intelligence. If your aim is to end the wart quickly.
> 
> A full nuclear first strike by USA, will probably be successful, I am sure it can be won without Russia being able to retaliate in a meaningful way. I think this has always been the case. in the last 20 years americas ability to do this is increased may times over. It would be all over in 45 minutes if a decision is made. US has classified tech that we odnt know much about., but I know for a fact they can sink every Russian submarine almost simultaneously. They know where the silos are, and nuke armed butler busters can take them out, they show where the airfields and bombers are and they track mobile launchers with those micro satlltelites.
> 
> I think US will not do this as they are saving this capability for China. Once the Chinese see what US can do, the element of surprise is gone in the future. So they wont be striking russia with nukes.
> 
> I think they will just isolate russia it if uses nukes and maybe sink their navy and say the ukrnaians did it.
> 
> The issue probably wont be solved in our lifetime. It will require a regime change in Russia. West will need to win a second Cold War. It will be a frozen conflict.
> 
> 
> Canada will defend itself against any hostile foreign population that has received Canadian passports recently. Have no worry about that.
> 
> Australia can already take their citizzneship away if they act for a foreign power. And if people have to be rounded up, trust me the local population



HaHa!.. you have no idea..the Chinese were here for at least the last century,, the key word in your comment is recent!?

You have never heard of the Russian dead hand??? after a first strike by the US or others..\

https://www.military.com/history/russias-dead-hand-soviet-built-nuclear-doomsday-device.html




Viet said:


> The war can be over in 1 month, says Ukraine, if the West just provides 1/100 of its capabilities. Tanks, aircraft, missiles, drones, etc.
> But the US, UK, Germany goal is to squeeze Russia slowly to death. Military, economy, diplomacy so Russia can never invade any country again.


You sound so dumb.. it is the contrary that is happening!..


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> HaHa!.. you have no idea..the Chinese were here for at least the last century,, the key word in your comment is recent!?
> 
> You have never heard of the Russian dead hand??? after a first strike by the US or others..
> 
> 
> You sound so dumb.. it is the contrary that is happening!..


What tanks in Russia arsenals can be thrown at Leopard 2 tank or Panther?
Germany had 4,200 tanks in Cold War, that’s no problem at all to produce the same amount today. Then coming tanks from the US, UK, France, Spain, Italy…. a long list.

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## The SC

Viet said:


> What tanks in Russia arsenals can be thrown at Leopard 2 tank or Panther?
> Germany had 4,200 tanks in Cold War, that’s no problem at all to produce the same amount today.



Leopard 2 tank in Syria! .. HaHaHa!












Russia produced 40 000 tanks in WW2.. HaHa!


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Did confederates have HIMARS? or satellites?
> 
> 
> Ukraine didnt join NATO, so all is well. NATO had to expand because the people in Eastern Europe had enough of Russian rule and waiting in line for toilet paper. They said no more.
> 
> You are sure they are more advanced? you wold be right!
> 
> The fastest way to end the war is to stop arming Ukraine and Arm Russia with HIAMRS and military intelligence. If your aim is to end the wart quickly.
> 
> A full nuclear first strike by USA, will probably be successful, I am sure it can be won without Russia being able to retaliate in a meaningful way. I think this has always been the case. in the last 20 years americas ability to do this is increased may times over. It would be all over in 45 minutes if a decision is made. US has classified tech that we odnt know much about., but I know for a fact they can sink every Russian submarine almost simultaneously. They know where the silos are, and nuke armed butler busters can take them out, they show where the airfields and bombers are and they track mobile launchers with those micro satlltelites.
> 
> I think US will not do this as they are saving this capability for China. Once the Chinese see what US can do, the element of surprise is gone in the future. So they wont be striking russia with nukes.
> 
> I think they will just isolate russia it if uses nukes and maybe sink their navy and say the ukrnaians did it.
> 
> The issue probably wont be solved in our lifetime. It will require a regime change in Russia. West will need to win a second Cold War. It will be a frozen conflict.
> 
> 
> Canada will defend itself against any hostile foreign population that has received Canadian passports recently. Have no worry about that.
> 
> Australia can already take their citizzneship away if they act for a foreign power. And if people have to be rounded up, trust me the local population can't wait.


It really depends, I will say if Ukraine wanted NATO membership, they are going to get them, and the war will end and most likely ending the ambition of Russia. 

Problem is, as I mentioned, Ukraine would most likely need to give up those territories it lost to Russia. Would they want to do that? That's another story.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573521982691414018
Wow, Russian commanders requested to retreat from Kherson but Putin refused.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Mohsin A

TUCKER CARLSON: The point of the Ukraine war is regime change in Russia | Fox News


Fox News host Tucker Carlson voices his concerns about how the United States is handling the war in Ukraine on Thursday's "Tucker Carlson Tonight."




www.foxnews.com

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573521982691414018
> Wow, Russian commanders requested to retreat from Kherson but Putin refused.


Putin increasingly act like Hitler in the military strategic planning. 

And he, like Hitler, didn't know anything about Military Operation. That was the problem. 

The garrison near Nova Kharkova are about to be overrun, they were cut off and surrounded, conventional military theory they need to abandon the beachhead that side of the river and cross into the other side to consolidate, without that you are looking at a massive surrender in amybe a few days

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> Leopard 2 tank in Syria! .. HaHaHa!
> View attachment 882249
> 
> 
> View attachment 882250
> 
> 
> 
> Russia produced 40 000 tanks in WW2.. HaHa!


Haha for all your useless copy paste of russian propaganda…must have hurt to see russia being routed not only from kiev, but kharkiv now too! …haha

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## sammuel

jhungary said:


> It really depends, I will say if Ukraine wanted NATO membership, they are going to get them, and the war will end and most likely ending the ambition of Russia.
> 
> Problem is, as I mentioned, Ukraine would most likely need to give up those territories it lost to Russia. Would they want to do that? That's another story.



The only way I see Ukraine joining NATO is if there is an agreement to stop the war between them and Russia.

If Ukraine is asked to make concessions , they would ask for guarantees that they are not attacked again. And the only assurance for that can be membership in NATO.

I don't see a scenario where Ukraine is accepted to NATO as long as this war continues.

~


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> Leopard 2 tank in Syria! .. HaHaHa!
> View attachment 882249
> 
> 
> View attachment 882250
> 
> 
> 
> Russia produced 40 000 tanks in WW2.. HaHa!


Germany 27,000 tanks
Besides, it was USSR (including Ukraine).

But now thing is different. Russia fights alone. Putin sends hooligans, rapists to the front. Ccp chinese support Russia however only send cheap anti west rhetoric, Iran sends suicide drone, nothing else. Do I miss anything?

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## Broccoli

The SC said:


> Not at all..they were the first to build the all over Canada's railways.. they are extremely entranched in the Canadian society.. told you ..you have no idea..



Biggest China and Russia fanboys never live in those countries. One has to wonder why that is.



Viet said:


> Germany 27,000 tanks
> Besides, it was USSR (including Ukraine).
> 
> But now thing is different. Russia fights alone. Putin sends hooligans, rapists to the front. Ccp chinese support Russia however only send cheap anti west rhetoric, Iran sends suicide drone, nothing else. Do I miss anything?



And those tanks were mainly different T-34 variants. 

How many Armatas they have produced in seven years? Yep.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Problem is, as I mentioned, Ukraine would most likely need to give up those territories it lost to Russia.


Why would Ukraine have to give up occupied territories to join NATO? NATO can just accept them and declare those territories occupied. hold off activating article 5 until Ukraine rearms. Or not activate article 5 at all. There are no rules, NATO can do whatever it likes.


----------



## jhungary

sammuel said:


> The only way I see Ukraine joining NATO is if there is an agreement to stop the war between them and Russia.
> 
> If Ukraine is asked to make concessions , they would ask for guarantees that they are not attacked again. And the only assurance for that can be membership in NATO.
> 
> I don't see a scenario where Ukraine is accepted to NATO as long as this war continues.
> 
> ~


An such deal would have to be prepared well before Ukraine ascension to NATO. With or without negotiation with Russia. 

But yes, I don't see why or how NATO would accept Ukraine when there is still active combat happening in Ukraine. NATO may talk to Russia and extend them a ceasefire agreement in exchange of the recognition of occupied area. And in turn Ukraine will get NATO membership, if Russia refused, talk can be installed unilaterally between NATO and Ukraine to have them stop attacking occupied territories in exchange for NATO membership. 

But none of this will happen until the 30-member organisation vote for it. So, there are still time for war.



thetutle said:


> Why would Ukraine have to give up occupied territories to join NATO? NATO can just accept them and declare those territories occupied. hold off activating article 5 until Ukraine rearms. Or not activate article 5 at all. There are no rules, NATO can do whatever it likes.


The sole purpose of joining NATO is to the ability to use Article 5. If you suspended Article 5 or not activate it, then what's the point for Ukraine joining NATO? They may as well crawl back as much land as they can and stopped when they are ready to join NATO.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573584386813038593


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573653822106378241

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## beast89

Russians will be naming their kids after the Iranian drones

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573587164620800003

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> US have a bunch of weapons they can send, but one way or another, they decided not to transfer any of this.
> 
> The Official position for Biden is they want to leave room for negotiation and don't want to get the war hot, I mean if they pour these article in it and then turn around and as Russia for negotiation, it seems like not a genuine move.
> 
> About the M109A6, I have had a very serious discussion with @Oldman1 about the transfer of them, the Ukrainian need a lot M109 for offensive push, I think the Norwegian has transferred around 20 of them and was thinking of US will make a matching move and donate another 20 but then that was never materialised. I would say they will need around 200 to make a different across the board. But that most likely a dream number.
> 
> On the other hand, the way the Ukrainian operate, we are probably better off send them tank than offensive artillery, because offensive artillery softens up a position, that is the kind of war they are doing in buildup area down south. In the east tho, that is wide open country, the speedy counter offensive is an example how a shift and mobile force can exploit an unprepared enemy, which is what Russian Army is, if the Ukrainian had a couple of hundred of Western Tank at their disposal during that counter offensive, they would have made a bigger gain then they did
> 
> You can't chase your enemy away with SPG, but you can with tank. That is why Western Tank (Abrams and Leo) have remained on the top of their wish list since April.


The Ukrainians know what they need and are asking for that has made a big impact in their war effort from M777s to Harpoons to HIMARS. Not surprised that they want western tanks to help achieve their goals or objectives and you can see the same thing to what tools needed. Should transfer couple of hundred M109s that are in storage. Got hundreds of them sitting there gathering dust and sand.



jhungary said:


> not sure, but inwter is coming in 6 weeks, that's minimal time to get ready, if these 300,000 were US Army National Guard, then yeah, there are 4 weeks course just for that, but then National Guard have around 2 months of service every year they are in the reserve, those people probably haven't even touch a weapon or have any refresher in tactics ever since they were demobbed. that is if they have them when they serve that 1 year mandatory service to begin with.
> 
> That 300,000 troop are not going to do much, pretty much I can be sure the Russian is going to use them as replacement to give the soldier already in the frontline some breathing space and rotate them out, it would be quite stupid to put that 300,000 in any offensive capability. It will just be slaughter, But then you never know what Putin would do.
> 
> I don't think this will change much in Ukraine, probably strengthen the Russian line for a bit, well, they did get 300,000 worth of recruit. But those are mostly going to be light infantry, lightly trained and unlikely to be motivated. They would be even worse than the Iraqi troop we encountered in Desert Storm.


Probably send them in small groups instead of all at the same time to fill in the gaps immediately after few weeks of training. Hence the need to those who have experience and off they go.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573669224060489728

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1
> 
> Interesting discussion I had with my friend online, he was a retired LTC. He believes we are going to send American tank to Ukraine the next year.
> 
> As we discussed before, these options were held back because it doesn't give Russian excuse to escalate the war. Well, thanks to Putin mobilisation order, now gloves are off. Expect a lot heavier equipment to send. My friend also points to the M55S tank the Slovenia going to send to Ukraine. Notice that those M55S uses L7 105mm guns, the same guns being used by UK Challenger I, Centurion, M60 Patton (Both A1 and A3 uses US Licensed M68 guns) and co-incidentally M1128 Mobile Gun System that are going to be pull off the line this year. My friend hint at M1128 for Ukraine and then followed by American tanks (Not sure if he meant M60 Patton or Abrams, but judging from the L7 Guns on the M55S, we are most likely sending M60 Patton we still store in California Desert.


How many M60s do we have left? In my fantasy it should be modern Israeli or Turkish variant of the M60s but that's not possible. If they do send them in, should be with ERA blocks and other armor package against modern anti tank weaponry to save the crews. Course I would prefer the Abrams, maybe Egypt can license produce them since they don't have the classified DU armor package.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573286336202964994

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> US have a bunch of weapons they can send, but one way or another, they decided not to transfer any of this.
> 
> The Official position for Biden is they want to leave room for negotiation and don't want to get the war hot, I mean if they pour these article in it and then turn around and as Russia for negotiation, it seems like not a genuine move.


Honestly the Biden administration is being reactive instead of pro active. Only when Ukraine is in trouble do they finally provide the tools but late to the party. And room for negotiations and avoid hot war? The escalation with mobilization and fast referendum happened because Ukraine is winning especially in Kharkiv. Not because of HIMARS or HARMS provided. Heck not even ATACMS or Abrams have been provided yet. Russia is not going to take on NATO, thats they last thing they want involved to help Ukrainians push the Russians out of Ukraine faster.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573671631867633665
Dam, that’s really good camo

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573597342216978432


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> An Ukrainian friends of mine said most of these people in Kherson vote with the name "V. Zelenskyy"...........
> 
> That show you how "serious" these referendum were...


Best answer to 2 choices presented on the vote, leave Ukraine or join Russia.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukraine lacks the population to win against Russia. Ukraine needs at least 100 million people considering Russia has 146 million people. Ukraine has 40 million people and that's including rebel areas.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573609043066855425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573616942077906944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573620903132516353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573633609612890112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573643819689680897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573647615467700225

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## alimobin memon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573653822106378241


What parts of ukraine to be annexed exactly ? Can someone show in map ?


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> The problem why Western tank were not currently in Ukraine is because of logistic and support issue. Currently there are no US or NATO defence contractor in Kyiv providing support to fix these western equipment Ukraine were not equip to support when it breakdown, so say if a HIMARS or M270 MLRS engine has broken down, they have to tow it from wherever they are to Poland for them to fix it, this is not really economical. Which is why NATO has been sending unmodified ex-Soviet stock, Ukraine can fix them on the ground.
> 
> And the reason why there aren't US or NATO contractor in Ukraine is because it wasn't stable, but that was a few months ago, they probably need to look at places like Lviv and Kyiv or even further east near Sumy or Kharkiv are more or less stable enough to operate a maintenance center


Kharkiv used to be where they had a tank factory there until destroyed by the Russians. If they want to have a tank repair facilities, should be multiple hidden locations 1 or 2 for each area of operations. Most likely middle of Ukraine and can transport them from all directions with not too far distance.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573650072662941700

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573665950439821317

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573675892978622464

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## Oldman1

@jhungary 

With the Russians escalating, and gloves off, the U.S. should provide them with ATACMs and long range loitering munitions with a big punch. Not the short range less collateral damage front line versions. Heck the Iranians provided the newest loitering munition that came out last year and doing damage, which I have warned and mentioned that the Ukrainians needed more air defense and EW. The U.S. and other countries or maybe through a third party should provide those type of munitions way earlier on but with the escalation going on, should provide them now. Wouldn't worry about the proliferation of the loitering munition since many countries have them even Russia now. Heck Hezbollah has them as well. Either the U.S. helps provide it, or the Ukrainians will find a way, maybe even get ahold of the Iranian version and start using them on Russian soil since its not an American weapon. Long range weapon with about 2000km range from what I'm seeing.

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## MeFishToo

alimobin memon said:


> What parts of ukraine to be annexed exactly ? Can someone show in map ?


Look at the frontline. Its not like Ukraine is going to accept any kremlin decree. Makes you wonder how Putin is going to explain loosing territory the next comming weeks and months.


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## Oldman1

alimobin memon said:


> What parts of ukraine to be annexed exactly ? Can someone show in map ?








All of Kherson, Zaporizhia, Donetsk, Luhanks, and Kharkiv. Kharkiv was suppose to be part of it but you saw what happened. So they have to speed up the other 4 regions.









Russias plans for November "referendum" in Kharkiv region revealed: 75% were supposed to vote to join Russia


UKRAINSKA PRAVDA - MONDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 2022, 16:29 Russia planned to hold a so-called "referendum" in the Kharkiv region from 1 to 7 November in which 75% were supposed to "vote" for joining the Russian Federation.




www.yahoo.com





Russias plans for November "referendum" in Kharkiv region revealed: 75% were supposed to vote to join Russia​

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## MeFishToo

Oldman1 said:


> Kharkiv used to be where they had a tank factory there until destroyed by the Russians. If they want to have a tank repair facilities, should be multiple hidden locations 1 or 2 for each area of operations. Most likely middle of Ukraine and can transport them from all directions with not too far distance.


Ukraine shouldve moved military productions to the Carpathian area years ago. Theyve been warning us this was going to happen, yet they still didnt really prepare for it.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Best answer to 2 choices presented on the vote, leave Ukraine or join Russia.


lol, that's a joke, the same as the "Referendum"

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## Oldman1

MeFishToo said:


> Ukraine shouldve moved military productions to the Carpathian area years ago. Theyve been warning us this was going to happen, yet they still didnt really prepare for it.


Kind of far, but not to bad. Good place to put nukes there as well as protection with distance and hardened bunkers.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> The Ukrainians know what they need and are asking for that has made a big impact in their war effort from M777s to Harpoons to HIMARS. Not surprised that they want western tanks to help achieve their goals or objectives and you can see the same thing to what tools needed. Should transfer couple of hundred M109s that are in storage. Got hundreds of them sitting there gathering dust and sand.
> 
> 
> Probably send them in small groups instead of all at the same time to fill in the gaps immediately after few weeks of training. Hence the need to those who have experience and off they go.


Well, I think the point for hold back is gone, Biden probably realise that by now, now that Russian is escalating, we should also be. 

If this was me, I will send Ukraine Abrams, MGS, M109s and the MLRS in our stock, make one final push and see how it goes. No point try to care about what the Russian is feeling about it. 

As fo the recruit, there are literally no way to send them in, the Russian line is currently fragmented, if you send them piece by piece it's just going to get them killed before they can reach the front line. Better for the Russian to try to consolidate the front and then move in the reinforcement, but then that would take god knows how long.

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## SIPRA

alimobin memon said:


> What parts of ukraine to be annexed exactly ? Can someone show in map ?



Presently, 4 contiguous Oblasts: From South to North: Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk and Luhansk.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> How many M60s do we have left? In my fantasy it should be modern Israeli or Turkish variant of the M60s but that's not possible. If they do send them in, should be with ERA blocks and other armor package against modern anti tank weaponry to save the crews. Course I would prefer the Abrams, maybe Egypt can license produce them since they don't have the classified DU armor package.


We have around 200 left, mostly those were configurated for drone and target. What we can do is we can contract the Egyptian or the Turks to applies the same modification to their M60 upgrade and send them to Ukraine. If we do this before winter, we can have a substantial amount (~100) for them to use next year. 

That may not be a lot but if other NATO country also start giving them reserve stock (Like Challenger 1 or Leo 1) that would make a formidable armour force, those things are better than the T-72 or T-64 they are using.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Trango Towers said:


> My dear this didn't start due to Ukraine...this started more than 25 years ago. The agreement at the demise of the Berlin Wall was that nato will not expand east. Nato expanded east and the red line was Ukraine. Russia has warned for years. Also the Russian speakers in the eat were under stress. So it's not simple
> Ukraine as well as any country has the right to resist. However, Russia also has the right to protect its borders so when Russia was saying no nato in Ukraine why didn't Ukraine just build its own military strong. Why was there a need to join nato.
> Now Ukraine will take a 30 years to recover and 100+ years to repay its debt


You lying about history does not make it true.
All former Warsaw Pact countries and former members of the Soviet Union that are now sovereign states have the right to select their own means of security.
Russia acknowledged that in 1997 by signing the Foundation Act with NATO.
That means that Russia acknowledged that Ukraines membership in NATO is none of their business.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> We have around 200 left, mostly those were configurated for drone and target. What we can do is we can contract the Egyptian or the Turks to applies the same modification to their M60 upgrade and send them to Ukraine. If we do this before winter, we can have a substantial amount (~100) for them to use next year.
> 
> That may not be a lot but if other NATO country also start giving them reserve stock (Like Challenger 1 or Leo 1) that would make a formidable armour force, those things are better than the T-72 or T-64 they are using.


Could be that the Europeans are waiting for the U.S. to take the plunge before sending their own tanks. Hopefully the Biden administration make up their mind quick before the winter for next year.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573682176037724164

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Honestly the Biden administration is being reactive instead of pro active. Only when Ukraine is in trouble do they finally provide the tools but late to the party. And room for negotiations and avoid hot war? The escalation with mobilization and fast referendum happened because Ukraine is winning especially in Kharkiv. Not because of HIMARS or HARMS provided. Heck not even ATACMS or Abrams have been provided yet. Russia is not going to take on NATO, thats they last thing they want involved to help Ukrainians push the Russians out of Ukraine faster.


That's political point, I can tell you why that is the way to go but I cannot necessarily explain why that is the case. 

All I can say is Biden was weak, if we have people like Bush (not going to use Trump, because we would not have done anything if he is in power), we would have sent in the cavalry a long time ago. You want to crush the offensive, you don't muck around and try to look good in front of the camera, but then that was what our politician has been doing since Iraq and Afghanistan. 

And to some degree, I think Biden was weak because people criticize how he handle the Afghanistan drawn down.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Trango Towers said:


> Iram has every right to make nukes to defend itself its none of Americas business.
> Do u see the problem with your statement?


Iran has signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty. That means they do not have the right to make nukes.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Kharkiv used to be where they had a tank factory there until destroyed by the Russians. If they want to have a tank repair facilities, should be multiple hidden locations 1 or 2 for each area of operations. Most likely middle of Ukraine and can transport them from all directions with not too far distance.


Well, they will need a site close to all the highway, which mean they can be transport back and fix when they had broken down. 

But then it's a moot point because NATO did not seem to okay with their Contractor on the ground, this was not mentioned since maybe April and unless they solve this, there are not going to be serious/major heavy equipment movement to Ukraine. 

Hopefully they are going to look back at it soon.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> With the Russians escalating, and gloves off, the U.S. should provide them with ATACMs and long range loitering munitions with a big punch. Not the short range less collateral damage front line versions. Heck the Iranians provided the newest loitering munition that came out last year and doing damage, which I have warned and mentioned that the Ukrainians needed more air defense and EW. The U.S. and other countries or maybe through a third party should provide those type of munitions way earlier on but with the escalation going on, should provide them now. Wouldn't worry about the proliferation of the loitering munition since many countries have them even Russia now. Heck Hezbollah has them as well. Either the U.S. helps provide it, or the Ukrainians will find a way, maybe even get ahold of the Iranian version and start using them on Russian soil since its not an American weapon. Long range weapon with about 2000km range from what I'm seeing.



If the US arms Ukraine with ATACMS then China arms Russia with DF-17. Two can play the arms race game.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> And to some degree, I think Biden was weak because people criticize how he handle the Afghanistan drawn down.


Well instead of trying to avoid that repeat, he's doing it wrong with slow decisions and fear of the consequences that made people think he is weak. If he wants to look strong, suppose to help Ukraine win quickly.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> All of Kherson, Zaporizhia, Donetsk, Luhanks, and Kharkiv. Kharkiv was suppose to be part of it but you saw what happened. So they have to speed up the other 4 regions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russias plans for November "referendum" in Kharkiv region revealed: 75% were supposed to vote to join Russia
> 
> 
> UKRAINSKA PRAVDA - MONDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 2022, 16:29 Russia planned to hold a so-called "referendum" in the Kharkiv region from 1 to 7 November in which 75% were supposed to "vote" for joining the Russian Federation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russias plans for November "referendum" in Kharkiv region revealed: 75% were supposed to vote to join Russia​



Ukraine doesn't have Crimea anymore. Deduction 2 million people. Back to year 1940 population.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573646539188224002

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If the US arms Ukraine with ATACMS then China arms Russia with DF-17. Two can play the arms race game.


Why would Russia need that when they have their own Iskander? Ukraine benefits more because they have are more on par now before without ATACMS.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573646539188224002



40 million people (including areas taken by rebels) versus 146 million people is not winning odds. They will get slaughtered when war starts next year.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573685782379868160
More of Russias finest


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573686349583962112

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Why would Russia need that when they have their own Iskander? Ukraine benefits more because they have are more on par now before without ATACMS.



China is not in INF treaty which limits land based missile range to 500 km. DF-17 has 2000 km range. American and Russian missiles cannot exceed 500 km because they are in INF treaty.

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## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China is not in INF treaty which limits land based missile range to 500 km. DF-17 has 2000 km range. American and Russian missiles cannot exceed 500 km because they are in INF treaty.


They were in INF Treaty. The U.S. plans to have 500 plus km range missile and plans to extend it even further. Same for the Russians. For Ukraine's situation, the 300km range missile is sufficient for the war.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> With the Russians escalating, and gloves off, the U.S. should provide them with ATACMs and long range loitering munitions with a big punch. Not the short range less collateral damage front line versions. Heck the Iranians provided the newest loitering munition that came out last year and doing damage, which I have warned and mentioned that the Ukrainians needed more air defense and EW. The U.S. and other countries or maybe through a third party should provide those type of munitions way earlier on but with the escalation going on, should provide them now. Wouldn't worry about the proliferation of the loitering munition since many countries have them even Russia now. Heck Hezbollah has them as well. Either the U.S. helps provide it, or the Ukrainians will find a way, maybe even get ahold of the Iranian version and start using them on Russian soil since its not an American weapon. Long range weapon with about 2000km range from what I'm seeing.


Well, all I can say is this. 

While Ukraine fought like NATO, but then Ukraine did not have the standard and quality of NATO, that mean whatever we do in the US or UK, Ukraine may not be able to copy exactly, which is for me, that's a good thing, because this war happen in Ukraine, and they know their backyard like it's their backyard, so they should be the one that dictate how this war is being prosecuted. I am pretty sure NATO, especially US and UK have given a lot of advice as to how they can profit from the ground (Not like making money profit, but gain upper hand) but at the end of the day, They should and better to fight the Ukrainian way. 

From what I am seeing, they are doing what I predict at the beginning of the war, not sure if you had remembered when this started, we talked about what can Ukraine capitalise on the supply line during the 40 mile convoy, and I am saying they should have formed a mobile Armor brigade and do hit and run, that's what they are doing at the moment. They are attacking the center of gravity and try to push with speed and mobility, that's what get them going. That's because Russia would perfer a static set piece fight, so it's best for Ukraine not give that to the Russian. Which mean Area Denial weapon are mostly pointless in this offensive because that would limit the scope to where you get AA coverage. 

If this was the US, we will own the sky and speed run the battlefield. Much like how Alexander the Great uses their cavalry, Ukraine is trying to replicate that but without Air Support, which itself is a gamble, because this would not have worked if Russia had Air Superiority.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

China continues backing its client state Russia which has a large consumer goods market of 146 million people.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573421584874098688


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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> Did confederates have HIMARS? or satellites?
> 
> 
> Ukraine didnt join NATO, so all is well. NATO had to expand because the people in Eastern Europe had enough of Russian rule and waiting in line for toilet paper. They said no more.
> 
> You are sure they are more advanced? you wold be right!
> 
> The fastest way to end the war is to stop arming Ukraine and Arm Russia with HIAMRS and military intelligence. If your aim is to end the wart quickly.
> 
> A full nuclear first strike by USA, will probably be successful, I am sure it can be won without Russia being able to retaliate in a meaningful way. I think this has always been the case. in the last 20 years americas ability to do this is increased may times over. It would be all over in 45 minutes if a decision is made. US has classified tech that we odnt know much about., but I know for a fact they can sink every Russian submarine almost simultaneously. They know where the silos are, and nuke armed butler busters can take them out, they show where the airfields and bombers are and they track mobile launchers with those micro satlltelites.
> 
> I think US will not do this as they are saving this capability for China. Once the Chinese see what US can do, the element of surprise is gone in the future. So they wont be striking russia with nukes.
> 
> I think they will just isolate russia it if uses nukes and maybe sink their navy and say the ukrnaians did it.
> 
> The issue probably wont be solved in our lifetime. It will require a regime change in Russia. West will need to win a second Cold War. It will be a frozen conflict.
> 
> 
> Canada will defend itself against any hostile foreign population that has received Canadian passports recently. Have no worry about that.
> 
> Australia can already take their citizzneship away if they act for a foreign power. And if people have to be rounded up, trust me the local population can't wait.


Why do You think that the US will spare China, when retaliating against a Russian nuclear attack? 
China, Iran, North Korea goes at the same time, and the list is longer than that.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573644335500988418


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Could be that the Europeans are waiting for the U.S. to take the plunge before sending their own tanks. Hopefully the Biden administration make up their mind quick before the winter for next year.


I would think Europe will send their tanks first, because that's the closest, it can be there faster. 

When we send them the tank, it would be superior in number, maybe around 200-300 in a shipment.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573624785027866624


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Well instead of trying to avoid that repeat, he's doing it wrong with slow decisions and fear of the consequences that made people think he is weak. If he wants to look strong, suppose to help Ukraine win quickly.


Nah man, it's the media scrutiny, I think Biden was afraid Russia is going to parade with US equipment like Taliban did with our M4 and Blackhawk and shit like that, that's why he is extra cautious on sending those things to Ukraine. 

Do bear in mind the Kharkiv Counter Offensive and The referendum and reserve call up are recent event, which will not show in response in near term, you are expecting policy to change in a short term like 3 or 4 months from now.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573306634813820928

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, all I can say is this.
> 
> While Ukraine fought like NATO, but then Ukraine did not have the standard and quality of NATO, that mean whatever we do in the US or UK, Ukraine may not be able to copy exactly, which is for me, that's a good thing, because this war happen in Ukraine, and they know their backyard like it's their backyard, so they should be the one that dictate how this war is being prosecuted. I am pretty sure NATO, especially US and UK have given a lot of advice as to how they can profit from the ground (Not like making money profit, but gain upper hand) but at the end of the day, They should and better to fight the Ukrainian way.
> 
> From what I am seeing, they are doing what I predict at the beginning of the war, not sure if you had remembered when this started, we talked about what can Ukraine capitalise on the supply line during the 40 mile convoy, and I am saying they should have formed a mobile Armor brigade and do hit and run, that's what they are doing at the moment. They are attacking the center of gravity and try to push with speed and mobility, that's what get them going. That's because Russia would perfer a static set piece fight, so it's best for Ukraine not give that to the Russian. Which mean Area Denial weapon are mostly pointless in this offensive because that would limit the scope to where you get AA coverage.
> 
> If this was the US, we will own the sky and speed run the battlefield. Much like how Alexander the Great uses their cavalry, Ukraine is trying to replicate that but without Air Support, which itself is a gamble, because this would not have worked if Russia had Air Superiority.


Wonder if they can do the same if the Russians start bringing in the new troops in and Ukrainians apply the same hit and run or ambushes before the new troops get settled in trenches and fortications.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

If Germany sends Leopard 1 tanks, Russia can counter by buying HJ-12 anti tank missiles from China which are light and man portable.


----------



## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573306634813820928

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Wonder if they can do the same if the Russians start brining in the new troops in and Ukrainians apply the same hit and run or ambushes before the new troops get settled in trenches and fortications.


Well, *WHEN *(notice I highlighted the "when") those 300,000 reserve being assemble in Ukraine, Ukrainian armed force would need to change tactics to deal with them. Because that is what the Russian expected. 

I do not know, nor would I try to figure out how Russian is going to insert those 300,000 force, but if I have to guess, the battle field will go from mobility to hammer and anvil, where Ukrainian would pin down the extra Russian troop and then hammer it away and digest those troop in position. 

But that is just a pure guess.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Nah man, it's the media scrutiny, I think Biden was afraid Russia is going to parade with US equipment like Taliban did with our M4 and Blackhawk and shit like that, that's why he is extra cautious on sending those things to Ukraine.


Well Biden needs to open his eyes that the Ukrainians since the war started are not the ANA giving up their weapons and equipment without a fight.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Well Biden needs to open his eyes that the Ukrainians since the war started are not the ANA giving up their weapons and equipment without a fight.


lol, as I said, I don't know, I can just guess, and your guess is as good as mine. 

It's like I said on the post you reply first, they could have sent in a lot of stuff but they didn't, and I don't know why.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573689400801771524

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573687018168754176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573687020588761090

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, *WHEN *(notice I highlighted the "when") those 300,000 reserve being assemble in Ukraine, Ukrainian armed force would need to change tactics to deal with them. Because that is what the Russian expected.
> 
> I do not know, nor would I try to figure out how Russian is going to insert those 300,000 force, but if I have to guess, the battle field will go from mobility to hammer and anvil, where Ukrainian would pin down the extra Russian troop and then hammer it away and digest those troop in position.
> 
> But that is just a pure guess.


Probably even use HIMARS wherever they are getting settled at as well. Welcome to Ukraine as they said.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573688510791524354

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## alimobin memon

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573689400801771524
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573687018168754176
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573687020588761090


It is reported as I said russia retreated but will attack only those parts which are recaptured by ukrainians and are to be included in federation.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hind shturmovik


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573683677422391309


----------



## alimobin memon

Oldman1 said:


> All of Kherson, Zaporizhia, Donetsk, Luhanks, and Kharkiv. Kharkiv was suppose to be part of it but you saw what happened. So they have to speed up the other 4 regions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russias plans for November "referendum" in Kharkiv region revealed: 75% were supposed to vote to join Russia
> 
> 
> UKRAINSKA PRAVDA - MONDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 2022, 16:29 Russia planned to hold a so-called "referendum" in the Kharkiv region from 1 to 7 November in which 75% were supposed to "vote" for joining the Russian Federation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russias plans for November "referendum" in Kharkiv region revealed: 75% were supposed to vote to join Russia​


Is lyman part of these areas ? If so than how is referndum going where fighting is going on.


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## Oldman1

alimobin memon said:


> Is lyman part of these areas ? If so than how is referndum going where fighting is going on.


The Russians are going to push the referendum anyways even if they haven't taken half of the regions yet while at war.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

alimobin memon said:


> Is lyman part of these areas ? If so than how is referndum going where fighting is going on.



All of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts are annexed. Including areas currently controlled by Kiev government.


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, *WHEN *(notice I highlighted the "when") those 300,000 reserve being assemble in Ukraine, Ukrainian armed force would need to change tactics to deal with them. Because that is what the Russian expected.
> 
> I do not know, nor would I try to figure out how Russian is going to insert those 300,000 force, but if I have to guess, the battle field will go from mobility to hammer and anvil, where Ukrainian would pin down the extra Russian troop and then hammer it away and digest those troop in position.
> 
> But that is just a pure guess.



A perfect move would've been to actually raid Bilgorod, and hook around through Russian territory, but again, Ukraine is fighting with scraps for a battlefield of this size. They are torn in between concentrating forces like they did East of Kharkiv, and pursuing other easy battles.

Right now, there been huge window of opportunity near Huliaypole after Kharkiv offensive, as Russians depleted it to push Kherson, and Kharkiv itself, but UA army reserves were tied down securing the reclaimed grounds, securing a new defense line, and recuperating from 1 week of intense fighting.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> A perfect move would've been to actually raid Bilgorod, and hook around through Russian territory, but again, Ukraine is fighting with scraps for a battlefield of this size. They are torn in between concentrating forces like they did East of Kharkiv, and pursuing other easy battles.
> 
> Right now, there been huge window of opportunity near Huliaypole after Kharkiv offensive, as Russians depleted it to push Kherson, and Kharkiv itself, but UA army reserves were tied down securing the reclaimed grounds, securing a new defense line, and recuperating from 1 week of intense fighting.



Russia has mutual security with Belarus, Kazakhstan, Armenia etc. in CSTO. An invasion into Russia triggers a war with all 6 states.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Probably even use HIMARS wherever they are getting settled at as well. Welcome to Ukraine as they said.


lol I don't know. The only thing I know for certain is that Russia would be stupid to rush those 300,000 troop into the frontline with the rest of the troop morale hit rock bottom. 

HIMARS or not, Russian troop in Ukraine already suffered defeat and their morale has gone to shit, if you put those replacement DIRECTLY into those formation it will just buckle the line without even to fight for it. 

I would think the next 4 to 10 weeks, what Russia do is going to be trying to fortify their line, and then bring in the reinforcement, but then you also have to look at this in the frontline Russian soldier perspective, they are already in the shit, and they are sending untrain recruit to try to help you out? That would not be a good sight if I was one of them.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukrainian army found a Zoopark-1M counter battery radar which is used for locating HIMARS and M777


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573673801321222145


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## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I am Chinese. Chinese are 1000% pro Russia. Chinese seek revenge for 100 years of Anglo bullying who invaded China and annexed Hong Kong.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


>



China has good relation with Russia. In 1800s China and Russia agreed the rivers are the borders.


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573688510791524354



Lyman will cut 1 logistic line for Russian force assaulting Bakhmut, but at least 1 more will remain.

In private TG channels of wellwishers, there are quiet whispers of noticeable UA losses from Russia's still overwhelming artillery advantage supporting them from the south.

1 advantage of assaulting a city from woods, you can move force undetected until you engage, the other side of the medal, if you get detected, you slowed down, and they can area strike you.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Putin draft just gone haywire.
> 
> Report suggested that Russian do not have all the information they needed for draft, stuff like drafting the wrong person with the same name with one case a person 63 years of ages were alleged being drafted on his son's notice. List that are not valid, there are report that Russian try to draft people who are already deceased. And also drafting people seemingly randomly whether or not they had served with the Armed force, like miner, mechanic, and builder that had not been in conscription system before.
> 
> Perhaps the most telling is the 70% of the current draft is on Minority in Dagestan, Khabarovsk and Far East region, with Russin metro only received 15% of the draft notice....
> 
> lol.......what kind of draft is this??,.


Maybe the Russians forgot to change the filters in the computers. Or they forgot to read the memo.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> A perfect move would've been to actually raid Bilgorod, and hook around through Russian territory, but again, Ukraine is fighting with scraps for a battlefield of this size. They are torn in between concentrating forces like they did East of Kharkiv, and pursuing other easy battles.
> 
> Right now, there been huge window of opportunity near Huliaypole after Kharkiv offensive, as Russians depleted it to push Kherson, and Kharkiv itself, but UA army reserves were tied down securing the reclaimed grounds, securing a new defense line, and recuperating from 1 week of intense fighting.


Well, there are 3 Brigade in reserve so if Ukraine want to push, they can.

Although I would doubt they actually push thru Russian territories (not Russian controlled territories). 

Conventional wisdom suggest that Ukraine should and would capitalise the Kharkiv Offensive and push further East onto Donbas. Which is evident that they have retaken river crossing point in both Oksil and Siversky-Donets River. If this was me, I will probably open up a new axis and hit the Russian where they are not suspecting, most likely a South West to North East run toward Svatove or may even be Starobilsk, but then I am the daring type, they may want to play it safe.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

War is not yet started in earnest. In 2011 first year of Syria war there wasn't much. Serious fighting only started in 2012.

buzz bomb


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573659738587504642


----------



## Paul2

Oldman1 said:


>



China lost 20% of its land to colonizers, of which 84% to Russia, and 15% to Japanese.

British, French, Spanish, Germans, Dutch taken together barely amounted to 1%. They mostly sat in their concession ports, and did nothing.

Now, Japanese are kicked out of China, but Zhongnanhai galaxy brains keep insisting on fighting over tiny rocks in the pacific, while there is a 1000km long log in the eye they don't want to notice.

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573685782379868160
> More of Russias finest
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573686349583962112


Seems they are not so patriotic in Nazi hunting in Donbas. Putin should do something. he can send recruiters to China and Iran.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Lyman will cut 1 logistic line for Russian force assaulting Bakhmut, but at least 1 more will remain.
> 
> In private TG channels of wellwishers, there are quiet whispers of noticeable UA losses from Russia's still overwhelming artillery advantage supporting them from the south.
> 
> 1 advantage of assaulting a city from woods, you can move force undetected until you engage, the other side of the medal, if you get detected, you slowed down, and they can area strike you.



Russia doesn’t have an overwhelming artillery advantage and hasn’t for 2-3 months now. They’ve expended over 7M shells and a huge number of their ammo depots were destroyed by HIMARS. It’s not June anymore.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Seems they are not so patriotic in Nazi hunting in Donbas. Putin should recruit in China and Iran.


Well, you can see by judging where the Russian men ran off to in order to avoid Draft........

How many Russian fled to China or Iran??

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia doesn’t have an overwhelming artillery advantage and hasn’t for 2-3 months now.



They still do. From 4:1 to 10:1, but yes, not 25:1 anymore.

You guys all seen the mountains of expended shell casings they left after themselves in Kharkiv region.

When they ran from Kharkiv, the only thing they tried evacuating was their arty. And they left almost everything else, including even tanks. This is how important the artillery is for them — it's a lifeline for them.

Just a week ago, I had a privilege to exchange few words with a guy from French Foreign Legion who fought in Ukraine, and just few days after he was killed in Russian shelling west of Lyman, when they were staging to storm another village. Russians still clearly have enough tubes, and ammo to routinely do area shelling. And when they manage to catch UA in woods, it's guaranteed losses.


----------



## Oldman1

Paul2 said:


> They still do. From 4:1 to 10:1, but yes, not 25:1 anymore.
> 
> You guys all seen the mountains of expended shell casings they left after themselves in Kharkiv region.
> 
> When they ran from Kharkiv, the only thing they tried evacuating was their arty. And they left almost everything else, including even tanks. This is how important it is for them — it's a lifeline for them.
> 
> Just a week ago, I had a privilege to exchange few words with a guy from French Foreign Legion who fought in Ukraine, and just few days after he was killed in Russian shelling west of Lyman, when they were staging to storm a village. Russians still clearly have enough tubes, and ammo to routinely do area shelling.


Definitely need more artillery for the Ukrainians as well as drones to hunt down the Russian artillery. .

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> They still do. From 4:1 to 10:1, but yes, not 25:1 anymore.
> 
> You guys all seen the mountains of expended shell casings they left after themselves in Kharkiv region.
> 
> When they ran from Kharkiv, the only thing they tried evacuating was their arty. And they left almost everything else, including even tanks. This is how important it is for them — it's a lifeline for them.
> 
> Just a week ago, I had a privilege to exchange few words with a guy from French Foreign Legion who fought in Ukraine, and just few days after he was killed by Russian shelling west of Lyman, when they were staging to storm a village. Russians still clearly have enough tubes, and ammo to routinely do area shelling.



They may have an advantage in number of tubes but that’s largely been offset by lack of ammo, which the Pentagon has already alluded to, and the precision strike capability of HIMARS, which forces Russia to move their ammo depots way behind their front lines stressing their already atrocious logistics.

No one says they still can’t do area shelling, but their advantage has been offset to a huge degree.

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## Paul2

The entirety of Kharkiv offensive was done with totally insufficient level of artillery support.

Most villages were taken without any artillery support at all, because they only had enough for attacks on key large cities.

They were lucky Russians were in shock, and did not manage to realise that for entire week.

Lyman is where they caught up to that. They put cannon fodder in front, and tubes behind. A rush on Humvees, and MRAPs no longer worked there.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> The entirety of Kharkiv offensive was done with totally insufficient level of artillery support.
> 
> Most villages were taken without any artillery support at all, because they only had enough for attacks on key large cities.
> 
> They were lucky Russians were in shock, and did not manage to realise that for entire week.
> 
> Lyman is where they caught up to that. They put cannon fodder in front, and tubes behind. A rush on Humvees, and MRAPs no longer worked there.


lol, that was by design not because they were lucky........ That's what the "Surprise" come from. They will know when you trying to prep the area with artillery or rocket fire

As I said when they have done it, this is a textbook exploit attack, they probed the line and know that was the weak point, they took that pressure point and managed to free all those areas quickly, that's more have t to with on the ground intel than artillery power. They know that point is thinly defended, and they exploited that point in line and broke thru.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573314403847766016
Got HIMARS’d

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573648066057588738

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573709982138306561

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## Paul2

Very strange things are starting to happen in Kherson region.

RU soldiers are starting to quietly fraternise with UA solders on the radio, and there been at least 1 confirmed face to face meeting in Oleksandrivka.

I think RU force is considering themselves doomed there.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, you can see by judging where the Russian men ran off to in order to avoid Draft........
> 
> How many Russian fled to China or Iran??


I mean the other way around.
The most western haters live in China and Iran. That’s a large reservoir for Putin foreign soldiers. Especially chinese, judging their hatred comments, I think they will fight Ukraine for free.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Very strange things are starting to happen in Kherson region.
> 
> RU soldiers are starting to quietly fraternise with UA solders on the radio, and there been at least 1 confirmed face to face meeting in Oleksandrivka.
> 
> I think RU force is considering themselves doomed there.



Well, Russian commanders wanted to retreat from Kherson but were refused by Putin. They know their position in Kherson is untenable.

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## ziaulislam

Putins already controlls 80% of area he wants to annex

Ukriane has made 0 gains in areas he would like to annex.

Putin has made his goals clear for th first time.
I.e annex four regions of donbass and area sorrunding crimea.

With full mobilization and going all in one focused area withdrawing from thw rest of ukraine it would be tough for ukraine to withstand this pressure



Viet said:


> I mean the other way around.
> The most western haters live in China and Iran. That’s a large reservoir for Putin foreign soldiers. Especially chinese, judging their hatred comments, I think they will fight Ukraine for free.


I wont be surprised if putin simply starts buying marceniries


----------



## Viet

ziaulislam said:


> Putins already controlls 80% of area he wants to annex
> 
> Ukriane has made 0 gains in areas he would like to annex.
> 
> Putin has made his goals clear for th first time.
> I.e annex four regions of donbass and area sorrunding crimea.
> 
> With full mobilization and going all in one focused area withdrawing from thw rest of ukraine it would be tough for ukraine to withstand this pressure
> 
> 
> I wont be surprised if putin simply starts buying marceniries


Controlling 80 percent of what? Those occupied territories are within Ukraine artillery.
Maybe you should care of how to hold Russia itself together as it is collapsing. Today I read because Microsoft doesn’t grant license anymore Russia turns to Linux. Will be challenging because most of smart people, IT professionals have left Russia.


----------



## Trango Towers

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Iran has signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty. That means they do not have the right to make nukes.


Loool ... oh you are a simpleton when it comes to global politics. If rule of law prevailed then why is it only the weak get punished by the powerful. America makes laws as it sees fit. Ealxmaple every UN legislation against Israel is ignored or vetoed. So nations that wish to survive must have nukes. Please get your head out of the sand

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## A.P. Richelieu

Trango Towers said:


> If rule of law prevailed then why is it only the weak get punished by the powerful. America makes laws as it sees fit. Ealxmaple every UN legislation against Israel is ignored or vetoed. So nations that wish to survive must have nukes.


A vetoed resolution has no value. It is not a resolution.
If Iran, which does not have the right to have nuclear arms, develops such arms anyway, it can legally be punished.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Trango Towers said:


> Loool ... oh you are a simpleton when it comes to global politics. If rule of law prevailed then why is it only the weak get punished by the powerful. America makes laws as it sees fit. Ealxmaple every UN legislation against Israel is ignored or vetoed. So nations that wish to survive must have nukes. Please get your head out of the sand


Every UN legislation against Russia, Serbia, Syria & pretty much all Russian ally also vetoed by russian & chinese even though every single of them did worse than Israel. 

The US maybe bad & they are legitimate criticism than can be levied against them but right now the West & the US are protecting Ukrainian from genocide. They're doing god's work in my book.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> That's political point, I can tell you why that is the way to go but I cannot necessarily explain why that is the case.
> 
> All I can say is Biden was weak, if we have people like Bush (not going to use Trump, because we would not have done anything if he is in power), we would have sent in the cavalry a long time ago. You want to crush the offensive, you don't muck around and try to look good in front of the camera, but then that was what our politician has been doing since Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> And to some degree, I think Biden was weak because people criticize how he handle the Afghanistan drawn down.


imagine McCain was president.


----------



## Mista

Posting this again after Russia's mobilization, because it's so true.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573741676434268160


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573415461592891392
Give Mongolia Russia far east

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has mutual security with Belarus, Kazakhstan, Armenia etc. in CSTO. An invasion into Russia triggers a war with all 6 states.


armenaia shud declare war in ukraine. and fully mobilise


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573742355819151362
Bad day for Russian aircraft

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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Why do You think that the US will spare China, when retaliating against a Russian nuclear attack?
> China, Iran, North Korea goes at the same time, and the list is longer than that.


I dont think US has that much capacity. im talking about a US attack where the adversary cant retaliate. doing all at the same time is impossible I think. 


Oldman1 said:


>


its so nice to see russia taking outer machuria and Vladivostok ensuring white people have a presence in the western pacific/Asia, even if those white peole are currently a bit rogue. 


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China has good relation with Russia. In 1800s China and Russia agreed the rivers are the borders.


and in 1900 Russia took inner Manchuria and port Arthur.


----------



## The SC



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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> Well, Russian commanders wanted to retreat from Kherson but were refused by Putin. They know their position in Kherson is untenable.



The best thing they can do is surrender and survive the war now - their position is lost and their lives would be wasted for no reason.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573741676434268160



lol - and NOW they want to give these same people guns !!!!

They all look like they will have "each others back when the shit hits the fan - not !"

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I dont think US has that much capacity. im talking about a US attack where the adversary cant retaliate. doing all at the same time is impossible I think.


Think he is referring to when US is being nuke by Russia, US will retaliate by nuking not only Russia but China and North Korea and the world as well. 

US most definitely have that capability......


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

LOL. They will all die.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573650479799799809

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Wow Wow:
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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Think he is referring to when US is being nuke by Russia, US will retaliate by nuking not only Russia but China and North Korea and the world as well.
> 
> US most definitely have that capability......


well yes they will. but thats not in issue here. Im talking about US first strike. which exists as a US doctrine to win a nuclear war. which I believe is fully capable of succeeding with minimal retaliation from any adversary.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Bullets doesn't look so good either

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572273094307500033

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573755376725594113


----------



## Ali_Baba

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Bullets doesn't look so good either
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572273094307500033



Corruption !!!! Rotten to the core and then some it seems(thankfully!!!!!) - truly shocking..


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> well yes they will. but thats not in issue here. Im talking about US first strike. which exists as a US doctrine to win a nuclear war. which I believe is fully capable of succeeding with minimal retaliation from any adversary.


The discussion is not about a US first strike. The discussion is what will happen if Russia initiates a limited nuclear war. NATO has analyzed that scenario and the best reply according to studies of alternative responses is a fullblown attack with every nuclear weapon in operation.
Still You seems to believe that NATO rather hurt themselves when in reality Russia will be destroyed together with a lot of other things.

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## PakAlp

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The discussion is not about a US first strike. The discussion is what will happen if Russia initiates a limited nuclear war. NATO has analyzed that scenario and the best reply according to studies of alternative responses is a fullblown attack with every nuclear weapon in operation.
> Still You seems to believe that NATO rather hurt themselves when in reality Russia will be destroyed together with a lot of other things.



Any Nuclear attack on Russia will harm China and North Korea. They will retaliate if harmed.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573765504812081152


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

MeFishToo said:


> Ukraine shouldve moved military productions to the Carpathian area years ago. Theyve been warning us this was going to happen, yet they still didnt really prepare for it.


Yes! 
I wrote that 2021 in a TOE for Ukrainian Armed Forces Reborn Folder.

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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The discussion is not about a US first strike. The discussion is what will happen if Russia initiates a limited nuclear war. NATO has analyzed that scenario and the best reply according to studies of alternative responses is a fullblown attack with every nuclear weapon in operation.
> Still You seems to believe that NATO rather hurt themselves when in reality Russia will be destroyed together with a lot of other things.


Well firstly US will never let us know what the real response will be. But If Russia uses tactics nukes in ukraine, a nuke attack on russia would technically be a first strike. 

And I think any first strike on russia would be a mix of nuke and conventional designed to first eliminate Russias ability to use nukes. Then it would be followed by conventional invasion. Cities would certainly not be nuked unless there was a legitimate nuclear target there.

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> Well firstly US will never let us know what the real response will be. But If Russia uses tactics nukes in ukraine, a nuke attack on russia would technically be a first strike.
> 
> And I think any first strike on russia would be a mix of nuke and conventional designed to first eliminate Russias ability to use nukes. Then it would be followed by conventional invasion. Cities would certainly not be nuked unless there was a legitimate nuclear target there.



Former top US Army General in Europe Ben Hodges says the US would completely destroy Russias Black Sea Fleet in response to a tactical nuke on Ukraine

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, SEPTEMBER 23​Sep 23, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Katherine Lawlor, George Barros, and Frederick W. Kagan
September 23, 10:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The Russian mobilization system is struggling to execute the task Russian President Vladimir Putin set and will likely fail to produce mobilized reserve forces even of the low quality that Putin’s plans would have generated unless the Kremlin can rapidly fix fundamental and systemic problems. *Putin and Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu announced that the Russian Armed Forces would mobilize combat-ready reservists to quickly stabilize the frontlines and regain the initiative on the battlefield.[1] Milblogger and social media reports, however, show that Russian military recruitment centers, enlistment officials, and local administrations are mobilizing men who do not meet the Kremlin’s stated criteria, especially Shoigu’s promise that mobilization would prioritize men with “combat experience.” Russian opposition outlets and Telegram channels leaked information suggesting that the Kremlin aims to complete this partial mobilization by November 10 and that the Kremlin is seeking to mobilize 1.2 million men instead of the publicly announced 300,000.[2] ISW cannot verify these reports, but significant available information suggests that this mobilization campaign (the first in post-Soviet Russia) is overwhelming an ineffective and unmotivated bureaucratic system and could fail to generate the much-needed combat-ready reserve force in a short time or at all.
*Russian pro-war milbloggers and social media users are raising concerns about unlawful mobilization practices and showcasing many serious Russian mobilization problems on the second day of the mobilization effort. *Russian milbloggers reported receiving numerous complaints from social media users that older men, students, employees of military industries, and civilians with no prior military experience are receiving illegal mobilization notices.[3] Shoigu and other officials have repeatedly stated that these categories of individuals would be exempt from this partial mobilization. Other sources reported that Russians are mobilizing airport and airline employees and workers from other industries.[4] The Russian government FAQ portal also indicated that local mobilization-enforcing officials may mobilize part-time students, despite the Kremlin’s declaration that no students will undergo mobilization.[5] 
Some milbloggers noted that Russian enlistment personnel are assigning men with prior military service to very different specializations from those in which they served, while other sources recounted instances of military recruitment centers mobilizing men with chronic illnesses.[6]
The quality of Russian bureaucrats and military trainers are also raising fears among the Russian pro-war crowd that the partial mobilization effort may not succeed. Milbloggers noted that employees of the military enlistment centers are unmotivated and underpaid, reducing their enthusiasm to adhere to the envisioned mobilization plan. Milbloggers also pleaded with officers and commanders in charge of preparing mobilized men for war to train them before deployment.[7]
*Challenges and errors in the first days of executing a large-scale and demanding partial mobilization in the midst of a failing war are not necessarily surprising, although they suggest that the Russian military mobilization infrastructure was not better prepared for a major war than the Russian armed forces themselves.* It is nevertheless conceivable that the Russian Ministry of Defense will address some of the worst problems and get the mobilization effort on track. It is also possible, moreover, that much of the partial mobilization is proceeding more or less as planned and that social media and the milblogger community are highlighting problems that are serious but not necessarily pervasive. Some of the reports suggest, however, that regional mobilization officials have been given quotas to fill and received pressure to fill them in ways that are more likely to cause errors than to reward adherence to the stated principles and the needs of an effective, combat-ready reserve force.
*Divergences from the mobilization decree and from Putin’s and Shoigu’s statements about the categories of men who are exempt from mobilization are also causing anger and mistrust toward Russian federal subjects and the Kremlin itself.* Some social media footage already shows mobilized men fighting with enlistment officers, arguing with mobilization representatives, and refusing to serve under unlawful orders.[8] Some milbloggers claimed that some of the discontented men who have been wrongfully mobilized would have accepted their fate if they had actually met the mobilization criterium.[9] The Kremlin is thus committing unmotivated and potentially angry men to war with the task of regaining the initiative in an offensive war in a foreign land on a battlefield far from home.
*The highly nationalist and pro-war milblogger community is calling on the Kremlin to address these mobilization issues rapidly, but the Kremlin is unlikely to be able to meet their demands.* Russian milbloggers express cautious optimism that partial mobilization will reinforce degraded combat units and allow Russian forces to advance in Donetsk Oblast, but are concerned that the Kremlin’s failures to enforce mobilization according to the law and stated policies will create political unrest.[10] One milblogger stated that the Kremlin’s poor handling of the partial mobilization is giving rise to “separatist movements” and opposition media.[11] Another milblogger noted that the Kremlin’s failure to fix mobilization practices within the military recruitment centers may shatter Russians‘ trust in the military-political leadership.[12] A failed or badly flawed partial mobilization campaign may risk further alienation of the Russian nationalist crowd that has been supportive of the war and mobilization.
*Disparate mobilization processes across different regions may exacerbate social tensions in Russia already raised by perceived inequalities in the creation of volunteer battalions. *Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov stated in a live TV broadcast that the Republic of Chechnya will not conduct mobilization because the Republic has already exceeded an unspecified force generation plan by 254 percent.[13] Kadyrov added that Chechnya has already deployed 20,000 servicemen to war since February 24. Kadyrov threatened to mobilize any protesters in Chechnya and send them to the front, however. Kadyrov then seemingly modified his statements by encouraging those opposing mobilization to respect Russian sovereignty instead of using the constitution to avoid service.[14] Kadyrov’s initial statement, addressed to the Chechen public, may be an attempt to both address and discourage criticism of mobilization, the war, and himself within the Chechen community. Kadyrov’s statement could also be a worrisome indicator for the Kremlin—if one of the war’s most vociferous and aggressive advocates feels the need to refuse to mobilize his people, at least publicly, that could indicate that even Kadyrov senses the popular resentment the partial mobilization will cause and possibly even fears it.
*Key Takeaways*

Russian partial mobilization efforts are suffering from serious and systemic problems in their first days, generating popular resentment and setting conditions to produce a mobilized reserve force incapable of accomplishing the tasks Russian President Vladimir Putin has set for it.
Protests, attacks against recruiting centers, and vandalism have occurred across Russia in the first 48 hours after the announcement of partial mobilization.
Ukrainian forces continued to advance north and northwest of Lyman.
Ukrainian forces continued their interdiction campaign in Kherson Oblast and maintained operational silence regarding Ukrainian progress on the axis.
Russian forces continued to launch unsuccessful assaults near Bakhmut and northwest of Donetsk City.
Ukrainian forces reportedly shot down an Iranian-made Mohajer-6 drone in an unspecified area of the Black Sea, likely near Odesa.
Russian occupation authorities began the voting period for their sham annexation referenda on September 23 with overt coercion and falsified turnout numbers.
Russian occupation authorities remained on high alert to prevent partisan attacks against sham election workers, polling stations, and government facilities. 



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Vovchansk-Kupyansk-Izyum-Lyman Line)*
Ukrainian sources reported that Ukrainian forces continued to repel Russian effort to regain lost positions around eastern Kupyansk on September 23.[15] Ukrainian officials also reported that Russian forces again unsuccessfully targeted a dam over the Pechenihy Reservoir likely in an effort to flood the Siverskyi Donets River and disrupt Ukrainian logistics on its eastern bank.[16]
Ukrainian forces continued to advance north and northwest of Lyman. Russian milbloggers reported that Ukrainian forces have driven into the rear of Russian positions in Lyman from the north, after reportedly breaking through Russian defenses around Karpivka and Ridkodub (about 22km northwest of Lyman).[17] Another milblogger noted that there are no communications with a Russian BARS-13 reservist detachment that was occupying a defensive position near Drobysheve (7km west of Lyman).[18]
The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian strikes wounded the commander of the 144th Motorized Rifle Division of the 20th Combined Arms Army of the Western Military District (WMD), Major General Oleg Tsokov in Svatove (about 37km east of the new frontline in Kharkiv-Luhansk Oblast).[19] The 144th Division is based in western Russia near the Belarusian border. Its losses in Luhansk Oblast, along with those of the 1st Guards Tank Army of the WMD, confirm that Russia continues to expend some of its premier forces that had been responsible for defending Russian borders against a NATO attack as well as threatening NATO.



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Ukrainian military officials maintained their operational silence regarding Ukrainian ground attacks in Kherson Oblast but noted that Russian forces continued efforts to restore lost positions and fired along the entire line of contact on September 23. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported on September 23 that Russian forces continued to organize their defense of occupied Ukrainian territories and are using aerial reconnaissance to search for opportunities to regain Ukrainian-held positions.[20]
Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported continued Ukrainian interdiction efforts against Russian positions in Kherson Oblast on September 22-23. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian forces conducted seven airstrikes against Russian forces and anti-aircraft assets on September 23 and conducted 99 fire missions.[21] Ukrainian forces reportedly destroyed two command posts in Henichensk (just north of the Crimean Peninsula) and Kakhovka Raions. Social media users reported explosions on September 22 and 23 in Nova Kakhovka.[22] Ukrainian forces maintained fire control over the Kakhovka Bridge over the Dnipro River.[23] Social media footage published on September 23 depicted additional Ukrainian artillery strikes on a Russian warehouse and damaging a Russian armored vehicle near Liubymivka, 80km northeast of Nova Kakhovka.[24] A Kherson-based Ukrainian source reported on September 22 that Ukrainian forces likely targeted unspecified Russian military positions in Chornobaivka, just north of Kherson City.[25] A Russian milblogger confirmed reports of Ukrainian Tochka-U missile fire into Kherson Oblast.[26]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces conducted routine shelling and rocket artillery strikes along the front lines around Bakhmut and Donetsk City on September 23 according to the Ukrainian General Staff.[27] Russian forces conducted failed ground assaults on September 23 on Zaitseve and Maryorsk in the Bakhmut area and around Novomykhailivka, Avdiivka, Opytne, and Kamianka in the Donetsk City area.[28]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces are continuing to use Iranian-made drones to strike Ukrainian forces and cities in southern Ukraine. Ukrainian forces reportedly shot down an Iranian-made Mohajer-6 in an unspecified part of the Black Sea, likely near Odesa, on September 23.[29] That attack marks the first time ISW has observed a Mohajer-6 in Ukraine.[30] Russian forces have previously used Shahed-136 kamikaze drones in Ukraine.[31] Odesa City officials reported that Russian forces conducted a drone attack on an administrative building in Odesa on September 23, likely using a Shahed-136.[32] A Russian milblogger claimed that the attack targeted the Ukrainian Navy Headquarters.[33] Ukrainian forces also reportedly shot down two Shahid-136 drones over Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.[34]
Russian occupation officials claimed that Ukrainian forces broke through Russian defenses in western Zaporizhia Oblast. Russian-appointed Zaporizhia Oblast occupation official Vladimir Rogov claimed on September 23 that a Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance group broke through Russian defenses near Polohy and traveled toward Rozivka, likely along the N08 highway, in off-road vehicles.[35] The Zaporizhia Occupation Administration announced a 500,000-ruble reward for information leading to the capture of the “saboteurs.”[36] ISW cannot independently confirm these reports.
Russian forces continued strikes on Zaporizhia City on September 22-23. Rogov posted footage on September 22 of Russian rockets striking Ukrainian civilian infrastructure and military facilities overnight.[37] Rogov claimed that Ukrainian air defenses damaged civilian buildings by shooting down the rockets. A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian rocket attacks struck a Ukrainian military enlistment office and a factory in Zaporizhia City on September 23.[38] Ukrainian Zaporizhia Oblast Administration Head Oleksandr Starukh also reported that Russian forces hit civilian infrastructure in Zaporizhia City.[39]
Russian forces continued routine shelling of Nikopol, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, and Mykolaiv City, Mykolaiv Oblast on September 23. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command and local Ukrainian officials reported on September 23 that Russian forces shelled Nikopol and Marhanets, damaging civilian residences and electrical lines.[40]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Ukrainian counteroffensives are likely continuing to attrit and grind down Russian forces even as the Kremlin’s partial mobilization attempts to backfill new personnel to degraded Russian units. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on September 23 that the Russian military delivered the bodies of 105 deceased Russian servicemembers to a military hospital in Rostov-on-Don and reported that preparations are underway for the receipt of 200 additional bodies in the near future.[41]




*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities began the voting period for their sham annexation referenda on September 23 with overt coercion and falsified turnout numbers. Ukrainian sources reported that members of the occupation “election commissions” went door-to-door in occupied Zaporizhia and Kherson oblasts accompanied by armed men.[42] Voters who turned up at polling stations did not have access to private voting booths; armed occupation forces reportedly showed voters which boxes to check and did not check identification at polling sites.[43] Occupation authorities reportedly stopped people on the streets to force them to vote.[44] The Ukrainian head of the Luhansk Military Administration, Serhiy Haidai, reported that armed men threatened to break into apartment buildings that refused them entrance and told voters who offered identification that ”we already know you.”[45] Haidai reported that occupation authorities are recording the names of those who vote no on the referendum, indicating that Russian authorities are likely preparing to retaliate against uncooperative Ukrainian civilians.[46]
Russian occupation authorities remained on high alert to prevent partisan attacks against sham election workers, polling stations, and government facilities. The Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) reported that forces from Rosgavardia, the Russian military police, as well as the Russian Ministry of Emergencies are tasked with the “protection” of annexation referenda measures.[47] Russian occupation authorities in Luhansk Oblast reported that forces from the LNR Interior Ministry, the Russian Internal Affairs Ministry, and Rosgvardia implemented unspecified ”organizational and practical measures” to protect public order and civilian safety during the referendum, including the protection of election commission personnel ”outside the polling stations.”[48] The Russian Ministry of Defense stated on September 23 that sappers from the International Mine Action Center have begun inspecting polling stations and nearby areas in Luhansk for explosives, referring to these as ”anti-terrorist measures.”[49] The Russian head of the “We Are Together With Russia” movement, a likely Kremlin-directed attempt to demonstrate grassroots support for the sham referenda, reported a “terrorist” attack near a residential building in central Melitopol on September 23, likely describing a partisan attempt to disrupt the sham referendum there.[50]
Russian milbloggers already set information conditions to explain away any reported low turnout. One milblogger reported on September 23 that occupation administrations in Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhia oblasts have not maintained the telephone lines meant to inform residents in Ukraine and Russia about where polling stations are located.[51] The milblogger claimed that no employees answered the phone at informational call centers and that many residents in Ukraine and Russia cannot vote because they do not know where the polling stations are located. Russian milbloggers may use this misleading narrative to justify low turnout or coercive door-to-door “polling” of residents.
Russian media will likely distribute false turnout numbers each day of the sham referendum to maintain a thin veneer of legitimacy. A Russian reporter claimed that 15.3% of voters in Kherson Oblast, 22% of voters in Luhansk Oblast, 20.5% in Zaporizhia Oblast, and 23.6% in Donetsk Oblast turned out to vote on September 23.[52] He did not clarify whether these percentages refer to all eligible voters in each oblast, or only in occupied areas. Russian occupation authorities may have specific quotas of paper ballots to meet for informational purposes, but the results of these sham referenda are pre-determined and will wildly overstate turnout and support for Russian occupation.


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## Trango Towers

A.P. Richelieu said:


> A vetoed resolution has no value. It is not a resolution.
> If Iran, which does not have the right to have nuclear arms, develops such arms anyway, it can legally be punished.


So u are supporting the most undemocratic organisation on the planet namely the UN. The whole wold can vote and 5 members can veto. Lemming like u support that as just.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573776034339635206

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> Former top US Army General in Europe Ben Hodges says the US would completely destroy Russias Black Sea Fleet in response to a tactical nuke on Ukraine


I heard that.

I think we can be pretty sure that if a current or former general says something that is top secret, its probably not going to be true.

I down see the sense in destroying a russian fleet. The fleet is not a great threat. Its not in active combat to the level that ground troops are. Why not airfields or troops on the ground. Im pretty sure destroying the Black Sea fleet will invite larger nuclear strikes. Probably on US fleet.


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## PakFactor

Ali_Baba said:


> Corruption !!!! Rotten to the core and then some it seems(thankfully!!!!!) - truly shocking..



Yes, corruption will hollow out any country; Pakistan isn't an exception. Besides, our air force which will succeed for a limited time, Army & Navy, wouldn't fare any better in a protracted conflict.

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## MeFishToo

thetutle said:


> I heard that.
> 
> I think we can be pretty sure that if a current or former general says something that is top secret, its probably not going to be true.
> 
> I down see the sense in destroying a russian fleet. The fleet is not a great threat. Its not in active combat to the level that ground troops are. Why not airfields or troops on the ground. Im pretty sure destroying the Black Sea fleet will invite larger nuclear strikes. Probably on US fleet.


I believe the US is capable of defending against such a strike. 
Russia would have to fire ballistic missiles at multible targets in order to succesfully destroy something. And that would must certainly be the end of the world as we know.
Destroying the Black Sea fleet would be done conventionally and would show Russia what they are up against. Maybe Putin would back down, knowing nuclear retaliation would be suicide.

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## Trango Towers

MeFishToo said:


> I believe the US is capable of defending against such a strike.
> Russia would have to fire ballistic missiles at multible targets in order to succesfully destroy something. And that would must certainly be the end of the world as we know.
> Destroying the Black Sea fleet would be done conventionally and would show Russia what they are up against. Maybe Putin would back down, knowing nuclear retaliation would be suicide.


Ww3 on any strike

Nukes were the reason America didn't strike pakistan. Just do a little research and American generals are on record about this


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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> " *In case* of accession of Donbass and South Ukraine regions following referendum "
> 
> I am sure all here are holding their breath wondering what will be the results of this referendum.
> 
> ~


Yep, Jews have lost.


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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> I heard that.
> 
> I think we can be pretty sure that if a current or former general says something that is top secret, its probably not going to be true.
> 
> I down see the sense in destroying a russian fleet. The fleet is not a great threat. Its not in active combat to the level that ground troops are. Why not airfields or troops on the ground. Im pretty sure destroying the Black Sea fleet will invite larger nuclear strikes. Probably on US fleet.





MeFishToo said:


> I believe the US is capable of defending against such a strike.
> Russia would have to fire ballistic missiles at multible targets in order to succesfully destroy something. And that would must certainly be the end of the world as we know.
> Destroying the Black Sea fleet would be done conventionally and would show Russia what they are up against. Maybe Putin would back down, knowing nuclear retaliation would be suicide.



Any nuclear strike on US targets would be Russian suicide.

Conventional destruction of the Black Sea Fleet would be an appropriate response to a tac nuke on Ukraine.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Any nuclear strike on US targets would be Russian suicide.
> 
> Conventional destruction of the Black Sea Fleet would be an appropriate response to a tac nuke on Ukraine.



No, it wouldn't. Like if peepz in Moscow care about their fleet.

Instead it will be taken as a tacit "it's OK" nod.

At any moment in the last 7 month, Biden could've ended the conflict within 2 weeks by ordering to take out Moscow, and 3-4 remaining top-tier Russian command centres.


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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> Ww3 on any strike
> 
> Nukes were the reason America didn't strike pakistan. Just do a little research and American generals are on record about this


How would Pakistan be able to hit America with nukes? Does it have some delivery system that can reach that far?



MeFishToo said:


> I believe the US is capable of defending against such a strike.
> Russia would have to fire ballistic missiles at multible targets in order to succesfully destroy something.


How would US defend against a mass launch to nuclear missiles?


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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> No, it wouldn't. Like if peepz in Moscow care about their fleet.
> 
> Instead it will be taken as a tacit "it's OK" nod.
> 
> At any moment in the last 7 month, Biden could've ended the conflict within 2 weeks by ordering to take out Moscow, and 3-4 remaining top-tier Russian command centres.



The US would also destroy all of Russias major airfields, C2 nodes, and critical logistic points in Crimea. Pretty much crippling Russias entire war effort in Ukraine. That along with their entire Black Sea fleet.

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> Any nuclear strike on US targets would be Russian suicide.


well, it would be mutual collective suicide. 


F-22Raptor said:


> Conventional destruction of the Black Sea Fleet would be an appropriate response to a tac nuke on Ukraine.


would it? are there many ships left? what would the response be? Putin: "Oh you've just destroyed what's left of our fleet and killed 10,000 people, yeah ok. We will do nothing in response". 

Errrrrr, no. That would not happen.


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## The SC



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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> well, it would be mutual collective suicide.
> 
> would it? are there many ships left? what would the response be? Putin: "Oh you've just destroyed what's left of our fleet and killed 10,000 people, yeah ok. We will do nothing in response".
> 
> Errrrrr, no. That would not happen.



See my above post. They’d also destroy their entire operations in Crimea. Not just their ships alone. Their entire war effort in Ukraine would end.

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## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> How would Pakistan be able to hit America with nukes? Does it have some delivery system that can reach that far?
> 
> 
> How would US defend against a mass launch to nuclear missiles?


So dumb. Go read b4 u use the Internet



F-22Raptor said:


> Any nuclear strike on US targets would be Russian suicide.
> 
> Conventional destruction of the Black Sea Fleet would be an appropriate response to a tac nuke on Ukraine.


That's MAD. That's the whole point of mutually assured destruction


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## thetutle

The SC said:


>


well he admits russia might withdraw from a ruined Ukraine. That a would be a total win for the west. I dont think he understands that, he's only a psychiatrist.



Trango Towers said:


> So dumb. Go read b4 u use the Internet


so you admit Pakistan could not strike America?



F-22Raptor said:


> See my above post. They’d also destroy their entire operations in Crimea. Not just their ships alone. Their entire war effort in Ukraine would end.


Yeah, I dont think US would ever do that. like I'd say its 0% chance. the retaliation would just not be worth it.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573768618277478403

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> well he admits russia might withdraw from a ruined Ukraine. That a would be a total win for the west. I dont think he understands that, he's only a psychiatrist.
> 
> 
> so you admit Pakistan could not strike America?
> 
> 
> Yeah, I dont think US would ever do that. like I'd say its 0% chance. the retaliation would just not be worth it.



I absolutely believe the US would destroy every major Russian target in Crimea including their Black Sea and Med operations

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573732680314888192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573734965589774341

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573729101583622146

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The US would also destroy all of Russias major airfields, C2 nodes, and critical logistic points in Crimea. Pretty much crippling Russias entire war effort in Ukraine. That along with their entire Black Sea fleet.



If America invade Russia then China invade Taiwan. America cannot afford to lose Taiwan. China has overwhelming population advantage over Taiwan. 1400 million people compared to 20 million people.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573746288046346241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573742376845287425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573741200774938624

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> Any nuclear strike on US targets would be Russian suicide.
> 
> Conventional destruction of the Black Sea Fleet would be an appropriate response to a tac nuke on Ukraine.


what would the point of that be to sacrifice Ukraine for a few ships?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573801422310805506

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## khansaheeb

Closest the world has been to nuclear war since the Cuban crises. Euro Savages know no limit of barbarism:-









Ukraine war: Putin not bluffing about nuclear weapons, EU says


The EU's warning comes after Russia's president said he could use "all the means available to us".



www.bbc.com





Ukraine war: Putin not bluffing about nuclear weapons, EU says​

Published
15 hours ago

Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war





IMAGE SOURCE,SHUTTERSTOCK
Image caption,
Russia's president made a thinly veiled threat this week he could use nuclear weapons
*The EU must take Vladimir Putin's threats he could use nuclear weapons in the conflict in Ukraine seriously, the bloc's foreign policy chief has said.*
Josep Borrell told the BBC's Lyse Doucet that the war had reached a "dangerous moment".
His remarks come as Russia begins a partial mobilisation and moves to annex four regions of Ukraine.
Mr Putin has faced setbacks on the battlefield, with his forces pushed back by a Ukrainian counter-offensive.
"Certainly it's a dangerous moment because the Russian army has been pushed into a corner, and Putin's reaction - threatening using nuclear arms - it's very bad," Mr Borrell said.
Seven months since Russia's invasion of Ukraine began, analysts agree that President Putin's forces are on the back foot, but he said a "diplomatic solution" must be reached, one that "preserves the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine".

"Otherwise, we can finish the war, but we will not have peace, and we will have another war," he said.
In a rare address to the nation earlier this week, Mr Putin said his country had "various weapons of destruction" and would "use all the means available to us", adding: "I'm not bluffing."


"When people say it is not a bluff, you have to take them seriously," Mr Borrell said.
In the same speech President Putin announced the call-up of 300,000 Russians who have done compulsory military service, sparking protests and reports of people fleeing the country to avoid being sent to the front line.

Who is winning the war in Ukraine?
What does Russia's troop call-up mean for Ukraine?
It comes after a rapid counter-offensive in which Ukraine says it took more than 8,000 sq km (3,088 sq miles) back from Russian forces.
Now self-styled referendums on joining Russia are being held in four occupied regions. Ukraine has denounced these as annexation attempts, and reported that armed Russian soldiers are going door-to-door collecting votes.









Ukraine has dominated this year's UN General Assembly as this costly war drags on with no clear sense of a way out. Europe's foreign policy chief was surprisingly blunt and visibly pained.
He shared the anxious lament he was hearing everywhere he went. From friends on holiday, to leaders from around the world attending the UN General Assembly this week, they were all asking him when this war would end. "Stop this war, I can't pay my electricity bill," was, he regretted, a common refrain.
Mr Borrell was willing to say in public what many express in private - that Europe and its allies were struggling to control the narrative in this war as Russia spins the view that European sanctions against Russia were to blame for this suffering.
But Moscow's new and worrying threats, including a thinly-veiled nuclear one, are also concentrating minds. Most Western leaders, including Mr Borrell, are still categorical about the need to stay the course in a conflict with many far-reaching consequences, most of all for Ukraine, but many others too.




Mr Borrell dismissed concerns that the EU's arms supplies were running low, and said it must continue providing military support to Ukraine, as well as applying economic sanctions against President Putin and his allies and conducting diplomatic activity.
He admitted that the rising cost of energy prices caused by the conflict was a matter of concern.

"People in my country tell me the price of the gas means we cannot continue working, we cannot continue making my business run," the Spanish politician said, adding he had heard similar concerns from leaders from Africa, South America and Southeast Asia.
Mr Borrell called on President Putin to play his part in reaching a negotiated solution, saying "in order to dance the tango, you need two".
"Everybody who has gone to Moscow, to the Kremlin to talk to Putin, they came back with the same answer, 'I [Putin] have military objectives, and if I don't get these military objectives I will continue the fight.' This is certainly a worrisome direction, but we have to continue to support Ukraine," he said.

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573803196597911554

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573799971601752069

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## ziaulislam

Viet said:


> Controlling 80 percent of what? Those occupied territories are within Ukraine artillery.
> Maybe you should care of how to hold Russia itself together as it is collapsing. Today I read because Microsoft doesn’t grant license anymore Russia turns to Linux. Will be challenging because most of smart people, IT professionals have left Russia.


Yeah sure
80% of terroirty it wants annex.
If Ukraine wants shell then it's okay.
Both Russia and Ukraine can shell.
See who gets tired.
Ukraine and the west.
Or russia


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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> See my above post. They’d also destroy their entire operations in Crimea. Not just their ships alone. Their entire war effort in Ukraine would end.



They don't lose anything more this way. They know they are f**ked and will have to concede defeat as is, and will be f**ked and forced to concede anyways if US intervenes. But in both cases they walk away with their lives, and some parts of their empire.

The right move is to deny them the former.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese immigrate to Canada to turn Canada into a Chinese majority country.


You said it: its because Canada is so much better than China that they have been moving for 150 years and still not taken it over. Have you heard of a 'Canada town' in Beijing

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573397496793300992


And thats the benefit of a free society (Pakistan, US): any body can talk on TV on a difference of opinion. In Russia, you go to jail. In Iran you go to Jail. Because they put people in jail that disagree with them is the reason they are both in a bad spot. Russia keeps firing its generals.

Iran didn't bring its F-14 pilots out of prison till 18 months after the Iran Iraq war started and realized that the only pilots that could fly the Tomcat and defeat the Iraqis were in jail.

So more for public disagreements. Doesn't mean Fed was wrong.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China will increase support for Russia. A weaker Ukraine is a good thing for China. A weaker Ukraine means less American influence in Europe. A weaker Ukraine is more dependent on China for economy.


Thats pretty pathetic: China needs a week nobody (Ukraine) to feel strong, But thats to be expected when you have an army that punches its adversary (India) vs. shoot them. Is this how they tried to fight the Japanese in WWII?

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## aviator_fan

jhungary said:


> That's political point, I can tell you why that is the way to go but I cannot necessarily explain why that is the case.
> 
> All I can say is Biden was weak, if we have people like Bush (not going to use Trump, because we would not have done anything if he is in power), we would have sent in the cavalry a long time ago. You want to crush the offensive, you don't muck around and try to look good in front of the camera, but then that was what our politician has been doing since Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> And to some degree, I think Biden was weak because people criticize how he handle the Afghanistan drawn down.


I will respectfully disagree. Biden (and/or any non-Trump president) would have taken the same approach and played the 'options' game and hedge their bets:

1. Provide as much defensive capability as you can.
2. Now war is as much about signal and data as it is about kinetic effect. Go into overdrive on what NATO can detect (satellite, intercept) and provide that to Ukranians to improve the odds of their defensive. I have no doubt that beyond just passive detection, and lot of active targeting information must have been supplied for Ukraine to have the outcomes they were getting in the first 90 days
3. The play in summary was to give all you can to defend it and see how they come through.
4. At the off-chance that somehow Ukraine is able to defend itself then re-assess.
5. This is where the Ukrainians surprised everybody. No 'outside -n' view by any NATO country could estimate their ability to withstand pain and inflict damage till it was underway. You saw how wrong everybody was about the ANA on the opposite spectrum. There was little tolerance to do that analysis.
6. Once they resisted (or if they resisted), then go all in with support because it means they may be able to do something useful with what you assist them with
7. You don't bet on a strategy of assistance on military you don't think is capable or deserving of it: why throw your prestige, money, only to know it won't get the outcome you want.
8. Also in a democracy, you need to build public support for the long-term ('forever' as a loser who lives in Canada but loves everything about China, and never been past China Town) and coalition of allies/partners. This is what was needed.
9. Plus the real effect is on the economic side over the 2-4 year horizon where the coalition and the political support is really needed: lose some oil/gas for 1-2 winters for the price of moving Russia's economy back by 16 years.

The oil and gas they have will last a bit but without western know how, they can't drill more of that. And ithe little they could continue drilling, what do you do with all that oil with nobody to sell it to or sell it but nobody to buy things from: its like running a brothel on a ship in the middle of the sea. There are no male customers for the commodity.


Had Ukrainians lost Kiev, this would have been the end of the chapter. Ukraine would have been a closed book. Lots of lives saved but a front-line state lost. Food prices would have been lower, though sanctions would have been active to bring Russia economy back to the 80s. No digital technology, no computers, no airplanes. Just electricity to run a toaster is it.


----------



## aviator_fan

thetutle said:


> Well firstly US will never let us know what the real response will be. But If Russia uses tactics nukes in ukraine, a nuke attack on russia would technically be a first strike.
> 
> And I think any first strike on russia would be a mix of nuke and conventional designed to first eliminate Russias ability to use nukes. Then it would be followed by conventional invasion. Cities would certainly not be nuked unless there was a legitimate nuclear target there.


You are right, none of us know US plan just like we didn't know the US plan when every other day US was saying Russia was preparing for invasion last Dec.

I am sure that the rank and file commander is probably in doubt of following an order like this. I know that in Desert Storm, US had given overt/covert instructions to Iraqi frontline units on the fate that would personally fall on any unit that used chemical weapons IF Saddam gave the order. That was the insurance against IF Saddam gave the order. 

It doesn't have to be under threat of action, it can be that if you use it, its going to kill your own troops and fallout blow back to your capital


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I am Canadian immigrant but I do not consider myself Canadian. I consider myself Chinese.
> 
> 
> 
> China man power over Japan is 11 times. 1400 million compared to 120 million.


But got beaten and ruled for 8 years till saved by the Anglos. How do you feel about that?


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## The SC




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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> I will respectfully disagree. Biden (and/or any non-Trump president) would have taken the same approach and played the 'options' game and hedge their bets:
> 
> 1. Provide as much defensive capability as you can.
> 2. Now war is as much about signal and data as it is about kinetic effect. Go into overdrive on what NATO can detect (satellite, intercept) and provide that to Ukranians to improve the odds of their defensive. I have no doubt that beyond just passive detection, and lot of active targeting information must have been supplied for Ukraine to have the outcomes they were getting in the first 90 days
> 3. The play in summary was to give all you can to defend it and see how they come through.
> 4. At the off-chance that somehow Ukraine is able to defend itself then re-assess.
> 5. This is where the Ukrainians surprised everybody. No 'outside -n' view by any NATO country could estimate their ability to withstand pain and inflict damage till it was underway. You saw how wrong everybody was about the ANA on the opposite spectrum. There was little tolerance to do that analysis.
> 6. Once they resisted (or if they resisted), then go all in with support because it means they may be able to do something useful with what you assist them with
> 7. You don't bet on a strategy of assistance on military you don't think is capable or deserving of it: why throw your prestige, money, only to know it won't get the outcome you want.
> 8. Also in a democracy, you need to build public support for the long-term ('forever' as a loser who lives in Canada but loves everything about China, and never been past China Town) and coalition of allies/partners. This is what was needed.
> 9. Plus the real effect is on the economic side over the 2-4 year horizon where the coalition and the political support is really needed: lose some oil/gas for 1-2 winters for the price of moving Russia's economy back by 16 years.
> 
> The oil and gas they have will last a bit but without western know how, they can't drill more of that. And ithe little they could continue drilling, what do you do with all that oil with nobody to sell it to or sell it but nobody to buy things from: its like running a brothel on a ship in the middle of the sea. There are no male customers for the commodity.
> 
> 
> Had Ukrainians lost Kiev, this would have been the end of the chapter. Ukraine would have been a closed book. Lots of lives saved but a front-line state lost. Food prices would have been lower, though sanctions would have been active to bring Russia economy back to the 80s. No digital technology, no computers, no airplanes. Just electricity to run a toaster is it.


You are of course entitled to my opinion, as much as I do, and that's my opinion, it's okay you disagree with.

However, I will want to say one thing tho. Hedging the bet is the right move, however, this is actually the third success Counter Attacks carried out by the Ukrainian, first being push back all the territories North of Kyiv in late March, second being Push back all the territories north of Kharkiv and Sumy in May, and this Kharkiv Offensive is the third successful counter attack (fourth if we also counted the limited local offensive in Mykolaiv and Kherson leading to liberation of snake island and some ground North of Kherson)

So if this is a bet, and the West want to wait and see how the Ukrainian is doing and whether or not they should be helped by NATO I will say if I am a risky betting man, I would put my hat in the ring after they push the Russian off Kyiv, and if I was a conservative betting man, I would bet on Ukraine after the Sumy/Kharkiv offensive, you know by then they can't lose, but then the west and the US did nothing, and even a month after the third successful counter offensive, the support is still not coming.

The Ukrainian really need to have that list of weapons to make a different, otherwise it will be a slow grind. they need a big push, and the west is probably at this stage setting them back at the moment, because I don't think the Russian would have answer to any general big push (like push on all front) if the Ukrainian did it. But then the Ukrainian won't because they are lacking the tanks, artillery, SPG to make it happen, you can't just lob bodies against the line and hope it will break thru and you won't be able to catch Russia with their pants down twice.

That's my assessment.

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## A.P. Richelieu

PakAlp said:


> Any Nuclear attack on Russia will harm China and North Korea. They will retaliate if harmed.


China and North Korea will retaliate because when the US responds to the Russian attack, they will also attack China and North Korea for this very reason.
If You realize that China will attack the US. why don’t You think the US will do so as well? So the US will attack China, and China will be destroyed.
The question is if Pakistan goes the same way.



thetutle said:


> Well firstly US will never let us know what the real response will be. But If Russia uses tactics nukes in ukraine, a nuke attack on russia would technically be a first strike.
> 
> And I think any first strike on russia would be a mix of nuke and conventional designed to first eliminate Russias ability to use nukes. Then it would be followed by conventional invasion. Cities would certainly not be nuked unless there was a legitimate nuclear target there.


Any nuclear attack that affects NATO, even by fallout is a first strike.


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## alimobin memon




----------



## Paul2

alimobin memon said:


>



Exactly, the point the guy talks is that the worst thing for Putin is that he will be forced to walk back, and that's all. He will only lose his army, $300B in US banks, and that's all, but Ukraine will have half the country ruined.

It will be a very different conversation with B52s above Moscow. But there would be no B2s, B52s or anything flying above Moscow with Biden in charge, and Putin knows it.

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## Viet

ziaulislam said:


> Yeah sure
> 80% of terroirty it wants annex.
> If Ukraine wants shell then it's okay.
> Both Russia and Ukraine can shell.
> See who gets tired.
> Ukraine and the west.
> Or russia


Russia can’t get away with that. What’s endgame? 10y occupation then withdrew like the case of USSR? Putin can’t win this war.
He has no political backing neither domestic nor abroad.
No economy, no military, no logistics means, no money, no technology to support the war.
The only things he has in surplus in oil, gas, people, and propaganda.


----------



## The SC

aviator_fan said:


> You said it: its because Canada is so much better than China that they have been moving for 150 years and still not taken it over. Have you heard of a 'Canada town' in Beijing


Not a majority Chinese country,, that is a bit exaggerated,, but very influential,, believe me buddy,, I know a thing or two..


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573803672269725701

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573801542477651968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573788602085015555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573795449395453952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573783135631949824

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573803672269725701
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573801542477651968
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573788602085015555
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573795449395453952
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573783135631949824


Russia with nuclear threats is like the boy who cried wolf. Eventually it will fall on deaf ears.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573794703853625344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573711868065095683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573700098378371075

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573700103491276802


ZeGerman said:


> Russia with nuclear threats is like the boy who cried wolf. Eventually it will fall on deaf ears.


Not at all.. the West and the whole world knows it,, go educate yourself on the Russian nuclear arsenal..

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573803672269725701
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573801542477651968
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573788602085015555
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573795449395453952
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573783135631949824



Mobilised professional soldiers on their way to the warfront after 2 weeks training:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572905068168609793

https://twitter.com/andreibc/status/1572905068168609793?t=KUGVDwEZJ-Y-PytcPDrtqg&s=19

https://twitter.com/GoncharenkoUa/status/1573238791615258624?t=6arARBj-y1XVbAyD_nIdyA&s=19

Amazing state of the wet weapons and equipment being given to mobilised reservists:

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1573688776957734912?t=BohA7mvq64nA8Za7ULjWzg&s=19

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573794703853625344
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573711868065095683
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573700098378371075
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573700103491276802
> 
> Not at all.. the West and the whole world knows it,, go educate yourself on the Russian nuclear arsenal..


They constantly threathen with nukes. 

Aiding ukraine? Watch out for our nukes
Sanctions? Watch out for our nukes
Finland joining nato? Watch out for our nukes
Sweden joining nato? Watch out for our nukes
Ukraine hitting russian soil? Watch out for our nukes
Ukraine hitting annexed regions? Watch out for our nukes

Russia needs to shut its mouth and realize the eu and usa have plenty of nukes themselves to wipe out russia a hundredfold. Stop with the nuclear brinkmanship.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The difference between russian and a pig is that the pig doesn't do genocide. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573075955215699973

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## The SC

ZeGerman said:


> They constantly threathen with nukes.
> 
> Aiding ukraine? Watch out for our nukes
> Sanctions? Watch out for our nukes
> Finland joining nato? Watch out for our nukes
> Sweden joining nato? Watch out for our nukes
> Ukraine hitting russian soil? Watch out for our nukes
> Ukraine hitting annexed regions? Watch out for our nukes
> 
> Russia needs to shut its mouth and realize the eu and usa have plenty of nukes themselves to wipe out russia a hundredfold. Stop with the nuclear brinkmanship.


True.. but is the US and EU willing to get nuked too???


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## Paul2

Kharkiv — Russians tried a meager counterattack north of Lyman. Dozen vehicles. 2 tanks got destroyed by upfront welcome with Javelin, the rest spooked away with artillery fire, and drones dropping 40mms.

Kherson — more news of very strange events happening in between the trenches


----------



## MeFishToo

Source (War in Ukraine)
Ukraine established several bridgeheads east of Oskil river and russian defensive lines breached northwest of Lyman. Russia trying to delay ukrainian advance using aviation resulting in multiple downed airplanes and helicopters. Russia out of manpower in the area.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573802372719165441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573737876780638208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573721042165563394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573677331687915523

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> True.. but is the US and EU willing to get nuked too???


Nobody is willing to get nuked and that includes Russia. So Putin is wasting his time with these empty threats. Its basically him thumping his chest infront of a russian audience he is trying convince to fight for his cronies and palaces.

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## alimobin memon

Twitter is not a great source of info for war.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573668921575874560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573671065066344449


MeFishToo said:


> Nobody is willing to get nuked and that includes Russia. So Putin is wasting his time with these empty threats. Its basically him thumping his chest infront of a russian audience he is trying convince to fight for his cronies and palaces.


Hmmm.. not sure about that.. he can bomb Kiev with tactical nukes for real.. What the US and EU can do???


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573932846351355907
buzz bomb


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573918919508852739


----------



## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> Idiot....again another dumb question...what is a nuclear fallout. Stop asking stupid effing questions. Everyone knows pakistan doesn't have the weapons to reach USA. We're you dropped on your head as a baby?


Well exactly. we all know Pakistan could not nuke US as suggested by you earlier. Thank you for clearing this up.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

buzz bomb


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573908932288020481

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## thetutle

ziaulislam said:


> Yeah sure
> 80% of terroirty it wants annex.
> If Ukraine wants shell then it's okay.
> Both Russia and Ukraine can shell.
> See who gets tired.
> Ukraine and the west.
> Or russia


Thats exactly right, the side that gets tired first will lose.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573875873043849218

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573668921575874560
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573671065066344449
> 
> Hmmm.. not sure about that.. he can bomb Kiev with tactical nukes for real.. What the US and EU can do???


They could refere to the Budapest Memorandom and actually honor it.

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## Paul2

MeFishToo said:


> Source (War in Ukraine)
> Ukraine established several bridgeheads east of Oskil river and russian defensive lines breached northwest of Lyman. Russia trying to delay ukrainian advance using aviation resulting in multiple downed airplanes and helicopters. Russia out of manpower in the area.
> View attachment 882400
> View attachment 882401



Also, what's on Telegrams: a very warm, and dry autumn so far.



Paul2 said:


> Kherson — more news of very strange events happening in between the trenches



A full squad surrender


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573949837808205828

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## Reashot Xigwin

The average russian recruit

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573671534421590017


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573961561970020352

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573787617765752833

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573797134104657920
How SURPRISING...

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## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573668921575874560
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573671065066344449
> 
> Hmmm.. not sure about that.. he can bomb Kiev with tactical nukes for real.. What the US and EU can do???


I will tell you what US and EU WILL do if and when Russia nuke Kyiv with a 20-50kt tactical nuclear device.

First of all, there are going to be EU or NATO peacekeeper in and around Kyiv, that's a given. That's 100% it will happen

Then high chance (between 70-90%) NATO will enforce a no fly zone to stop every air traffic in Ukraine. That's highly likely in order to contain the nuclear fall out. 

Medium chance (about 50-60%) NATO will enact a peacemaking mission, declaring all Russian force within pre-2022 or 2014 border as legitimate target. And will deploy troop and air asset on the ground and pound the Russian force in Ukraine international border, every target will be destroyed. That is done so NATO can insert peacekeeper to enforce border security between Ukraine and Russia and stop the ongoing conflict. Stop the conflict from getting further out of hand. 

Low chance (Between 20% to 40%) NATO will fly into Russia and destroy strategic target or nuclear capable target, also known as "Full Count" to stop further nuclear escalation. 

What Russia will do is either take lost in Ukraine, or escalate to global nuclear option, as long as NATO does not have ground intrusion into Russia, this is highly unlikely to happen. 

Problem is, once you use a tactical nuclear device, then NATO have to intervene. Because either NATO did not do anything, and Russia will use the same trick on other country, or even NATO member, and second, most likely the radioactive fallout will float into Poland and Poland will initiate Article 5. So NATO are going to do something, as far as I know from what I served in NATO capacity, those are the option they have.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573792200982421505

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## Reashot Xigwin

UAF just got some rare drop

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571216169431867402

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> You dumb ***. I never once said US soil would be attacked. Show me you dumb f
> Even US generals are saying the only reason they didn't attack Pakistan was nukes.


Only reason I can conclude why you are so needlessly aggressive is that perhaps your village water source lacked adequate iodine.

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## sammuel

Paul2 said:


> Kharkiv — Russians tried a meager counterattack north of Lyman. Dozen vehicles. 2 tanks got destroyed by upfront welcome with Javelin, the rest spooked away with artillery fire, and drones dropping 40mms.
> 
> Kherson — more news of very strange events happening in between the trenches



source ?

`


----------



## sammuel

thetutle said:


> Only reason I can conclude why you are so needlessly aggressive is that perhaps your village water source lacked adequate iodine.



No need to reply to such . . . just report him as i have , takes a few days but most times it works.

~


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> I will tell you what US and EU WILL do if and when Russia nuke Kyiv with a 20-50kt tactical nuclear device.
> 
> First of all, there are going to be EU or NATO peacekeeper in and around Kyiv, that's a given. That's 100% it will happen
> 
> Then high chance (between 70-90%) NATO will enforce a no fly zone to stop every air traffic in Ukraine. That's highly likely in order to contain the nuclear fall out.
> 
> Medium chance (about 50-60%) NATO will enact a peacemaking mission, declaring all Russian force within pre-2022 or 2014 border as legitimate target. And will deploy troop and air asset on the ground and pound the Russian force in Ukraine international border, every target will be destroyed. That is done so NATO can insert peacekeeper to enforce border security between Ukraine and Russia and stop the ongoing conflict. Stop the conflict from getting further out of hand.
> 
> Low chance (Between 20% to 40%) NATO will fly into Russia and destroy strategic target or nuclear capable target, also known as "Full Count" to stop further nuclear escalation.
> 
> What Russia will do is either take lost in Ukraine, or escalate to global nuclear option, as long as NATO does not have ground intrusion into Russia, this is highly unlikely to happen.
> 
> Problem is, once you use a tactical nuclear device, then NATO have to intervene. Because either NATO did not do anything, and Russia will use the same trick on other country, or even NATO member, and second, most likely the radioactive fallout will float into Poland and Poland will initiate Article 5. So NATO are going to do something, as far as I know from what I served in NATO capacity, those are the option they have.


Fun joke. Lavrov complaints at UN session, people in the west do Russophobia, he doesn’t understand why people hate Russia, people fear Russia. Where is the cause?
Maybe he can ask his own people in Russia.
Putin, Medwedew, state media spewing nukes every week. Lavrov asks why people don’t love those guys instead.


----------



## One_Nation

thetutle said:


> Only reason I can conclude why you are so needlessly aggressive is that perhaps your village water source lacked adequate iodine.


He is likely trying to take revenge for insults from other forums members.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573685764705193987
Make of this what you will.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573977123920007175

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL it seems the breakup of Russia is closer than we think

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573888881530994688

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## RescueRanger

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL it seems the breakup of Russia is closer than we think
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573888881530994688




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573989722346643456
Russia is imploding.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573694641047851008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573983432610291717

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573767191178231808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573986947814522880
https://twitter.com/epi_ona/status/1573975382969274368

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Iran has signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty. That means they do not have the right to make nukes.


well , NPT also provide benefit and rights for the signatories , also duties for the nuclear armed countries.
as non of the nuclear armed countries acted on their duties and I ran never reaped any of the benefits that it was supposed to get from signing it then iran my decide to use one of its right and that is inform 6 month beforeehand to IAEA to GTFO

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> well , NPT also provide benefit and rights for the signatories , also duties for the nuclear armed countries.
> as non of the nuclear armed countries acted on their duties and I ran never reaped any of the benefits that it was supposed to get from signing it then iran my decide to use one of its right and that is inform 6 month beforeehand to IAEA to GTFO





Hack-Hook said:


> well , NPT also provide benefit and rights for the signatories , also duties for the nuclear armed countries.
> as non of the nuclear armed countries acted on their duties and I ran never reaped any of the benefits that it was supposed to get from signing it then iran my decide to use one of its right and that is inform 6 month beforeehand to IAEA to GTFO


You posting is easily disproven.
Feel free to show where it says that Iran can tell the IAEA to GTFO.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573826931476385792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573826224585162752

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> No need to reply to such . . . just report him as i have , takes a few days but most times it works.





One_Nation said:


> He is likely trying to take revenge for insults from other forums members.


No I think its probably lack of iodine in his village water. it has a detrimental effect on behaviour and development, and if thats the cause I cant fault him but rather global economic inequity.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You posting is easily disproven.
> Feel free to show where it says that Iran can tell the IAEA to GTFO.
> View attachment 882448



Article X


> *Article X*
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Each Party shall in exercising its national sovereignty have the right to withdraw from the Treaty if it decides that extraordinary events, related to the subject matter of this Treaty, have jeopardized the supreme interests of its country. It shall give notice of such withdrawal to all other Parties to the Treaty and to the United Nations Security Council three months in advance. Such notice shall include a statement of the extraordinary events it regards as having jeopardized its supreme interests.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Twenty-five years after the entry into force of the Treaty, a conference shall be convened to decide whether the Treaty shall continue in force indefinitely, or shall be extended for an additional fixed period or periods. This decision shall be taken by a majority of the Parties to the Treaty.







__





UNODA Treaties


UNODA Treaties database




treaties.unoda.org





and sorry it was only 3 month not 6 month
its a freaking treaty , you always can leave a treaty

and by the way what thoase B-52 have to do with article I and V of the traty that some country obviously failed . dismantle some useless old b-52 instead replace them with B-2 and B-1B and nuclear armed submarine and under guise of maintaining current nuke inventory modernize them and make them more lethal , is that what article 5 say


----------



## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> Russia is imploding.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573694641047851008



Truly shocking when the instruments of state have themselves become a mafia states in themselves that are untouchable.

Shoulds like she was getting raped as punishment for protesting ?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

buzz bomb


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574014542706778112


----------



## MeFishToo

Some screendumps from the “barracks” of Putins mobilization. Unknown location.

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## PakFactor

MeFishToo said:


> Some screendumps from the “barracks” of Putins mobilization. Unknown location.
> View attachment 882458
> View attachment 882457
> View attachment 882459



The ****. Seriously, what was Russia doing with a 70 billion dollar defense budget each year for the last 20+ years? Ah, corruption is worse than a divorce.

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## MeFishToo

PakFactor said:


> The ****. Seriously, what was Russia doing with a 70 billion dollar defense budget for the last 20+ years? Ah, corruption is worse than a divorce.


I guess the russian military reform didnt leave room for large scale conscript mobilization.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573608606632742912
EU thought sanctioning Russia will bring them to their knees; instead, it is the EU that is on its knees. Just wait for the winter and see what happens. President Putin is playing a chess game, and it seems it is EU elites that are facing revolts from its people.

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## alimobin memon

Ali_Baba said:


> Truly shocking when the instruments of state have themselves become a mafia states in themselves that are untouchable.
> 
> Shoulds like she was getting raped as punishment for protesting ?


Oh please seen many videos of karens shouting like world is ending.

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## jhungary

Geolocated Footage show Ukraine have taken out Russian tank east of Petropavlivka, Kharkiv Oblast, East of Oskil River









War update: Ukraine repels enemy attacks near eight settlements


Ukraine’s Army has repelled enemy attacks in the areas of Petropavlivka, Vyimka, Bakhmutske, Zaitseve, Opytne, Odradivka, Nevelske, and Novomykhailivka. — Ukrinform.




www.ukrinform.net





That means Ukrainian are at least 8 km into East Bank of Oskil River.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574020986739064834

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## PakFactor

alimobin memon said:


> Oh please seen many videos of karens shouting like world is ending.



Lol, true that.

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## RoadAmerica

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573989722346643456
> Russia is imploding.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573694641047851008
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573983432610291717
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573767191178231808
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573986947814522880
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573975382969274368


Sad, but Russians have let Putin get away with atrocities far too long. They deserve this.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574028200145047557

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukrainians are out numbered 35 million to 150 million. Fat chance winning that.

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## jhungary

Ukraine had taken Nove, Kharkiv Oblast. 

Now Lyman is officially surrounded by 3 sides........Russkie need to bug out now or it will be too late.

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## ziaulislam

Viet said:


> Russia can’t get away with that. What’s endgame? 10y occupation then withdrew like the case of USSR? Putin can’t win this war.
> He has no political backing neither domestic nor abroad.
> No economy, no military, no logistics means, no money, no technology to support the war.
> The only things he has in surplus in oil, gas, people, and propaganda.


You do know that local popula in this region support Russia? These are Russian speaking areas.

Once occupation is complete you won't see resistance like we did saw in crimera

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## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> Ukraine had taken Nove, Kharkiv Oblast.
> 
> Now Lyman is officially surrounded by 3 sides........Russkie need to bug out now or it will be too late.


The russians in Lyman are supposedly detachments of former contract soldiers. While I hope not, they will probably retreat in time.


----------



## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> The russians in Lyman are supposedly detachments of former contract soldiers. While I hope not, they will probably retreat in time.


BARS 13 and BARS 16.

If I remember correctly, Russian lost contact with BARS 13 like 2 days ago.


----------



## PakAlp

A.P. Richelieu said:


> China and North Korea will retaliate because when the US responds to the Russian attack, they will also attack China and North Korea for this very reason.
> If You realize that China will attack the US. why don’t You think the US will do so as well? So the US will attack China, and China will be destroyed.
> The question is if Pakistan goes the same way.
> 
> Any nuclear attack that affects NATO, even by fallout is a first strike.



If Nato/Usa strikes Russia with nukes and as this will hurt N Korea and China so they will retaliate against the Usa/Nato. Yes ofcourse Usa/Nato will then strike China and N Korea. We can't say for sure who will survive but most likely we will all perish. We need to understand Nuclear war will be a disaster for everybody.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573997205723222018

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## PakAlp

thetutle said:


> Well exactly. we all know Pakistan could not nuke US as suggested by you earlier. Thank you for clearing this up.



Pakistan does not have the capability or the guts. They have no long range missiles for delivery, aircraft carriers, submarines or airforce.


----------



## One_Nation

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573997205723222018


Man banging his head on car bonnet, another one walking with pants dropped 😂
Russians are providing good entertainment nowadays.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573979954693423104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573981746105909248

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Rebels get a load of mothballed Akatsyia howitzers. While no longer effective with conventional rounds, they are deadly accurate with Krasnopol rounds at range up to 20 km.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573932846351355907


----------



## One_Nation

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573842172033605632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573956321237520384

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## F-22Raptor

White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan promised Sunday that there would be "catastrophic" consequences if Russia used a nuclear weapon in Ukraine and said the US will enact further economic sanctions against Russia if the Kremlin completes its "sham" referenda.



> "If Russia crosses this line, there will be catastrophic consequences for Russia. The United States will respond decisively. Now in private channels, we have spelled out in greater detail exactly what that would mean," Sullivan told Chuck Todd on NBC's "Meet The Press."


On further consequences against Russia for the referenda in occupied Ukrainian territories, Sullivan pointed to the G7 leaders’ statement from Friday and said there will be more announcements from the US in the days ahead. 

"They reiterated that there would be consequences and specified that that would include additional enhanced sanctions, including sanctions on entities and companies outside of Russia that are supporting the Russian war machine or supporting these fake referenda or Russia's efforts," Sullivan said. 

In an interview on ABC “This Week”, Sullivan also said the US is planning “for every contingency.” 



> “We want to lay down the principle that there will be catastrophic consequences, but not engage in a game of rhetorical tit for tat. So, the Russians understand where we are, we understand where we are, we are planning for every contingency, and we will do what is necessary to deter Russia from taking this step. And if they do, we will respond decisively,” Sullivan said.


Asked about ongoing protests in Russia, Sullivan said the US is focused on continuing to support Ukraine: “The future of Russia is for the Russian people to decide."









September 25, 2022 Russia-Ukraine News


Facing protests at home and diminished forces in Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin moved to bolster his military and crack down on dissent.




www.cnn.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

One_Nation said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573842172033605632
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573956321237520384



Are they entering Georgia? I think South Ossetia or Abkhazia but not Georgia.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574051673026224129


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574053631736922114


----------



## Viet

A new “volunteer” to Ukraine special ops.

- Vladimir Putin


----------



## dbc

Viet said:


> A new “volunteer” to Ukraine special ops.
> 
> - Vladimir Putin



Looks like the Russians are "partially mobilizing" minorities particularly Russian Muslims. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574050174640463873


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Africans booster Russian man power against Anglo imperialism


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574052644682866691


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> Article X
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNODA Treaties
> 
> 
> UNODA Treaties database
> 
> 
> 
> 
> treaties.unoda.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and sorry it was only 3 month not 6 month
> its a freaking treaty , you always can leave a treaty
> 
> and by the way what thoase B-52 have to do with article I and V of the traty that some country obviously failed . dismantle some useless old b-52 instead replace them with B-2 and B-1B and nuclear armed submarine and under guise of maintaining current nuke inventory modernize them and make them more lethal , is that what article 5 say



You cannot always leave a treaty without consequences.
There are no extraordinary events that Iran can refer to. Sanctions because Iran is violating the treaty hardly counts.

The dismantled B-52s represents the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks which significantly reduced the nuclears arms.


----------



## RescueRanger

Russian Riot police killed this poor girl with a baton strike to the head. 


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572646420108410880





PakFactor said:


> The ****. Seriously, what was Russia doing with a 70 billion dollar defense budget each year for the last 20+ years? Ah, corruption is worse than a divorce.


Who needs bullet proof vests and ration packs when the mayor sends you off to war with a twaeez:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573707268054568963
The reality on the ground is that Gopniks are so scared of mobilisation they are trying to break their arms or injure themselves to avoid fighting:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573705960325013504

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## A.P. Richelieu

PakAlp said:


> If Nato/Usa strikes Russia with nukes and as this will hurt N Korea and China so they will retaliate against the Usa/Nato. Yes ofcourse Usa/Nato will then strike China and N Korea. We can't say for sure who will survive but most likely we will all perish. We need to understand Nuclear war will be a disaster for everybody.


You do not get it.
If the US decides to do a massive strike on Russia, then they will attack China and North Korea as well - at the same time.
Allowing China to attack the US first before attacking China is going to have higher US casualties. 
It is in Chinas best interest to threaten Russia with nuclear war to stop Putin from initiating the exchange.


----------



## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> Russian Riot police killed this poor girl with a baton strike to the head.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572646420108410880
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs bullet proof vests and ration packs when the mayor sends you off to war with a twaeez:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573707268054568963
> The reality on the ground is that Gopniks are so scared of mobilisation they are trying to break their arms or injure themselves to avoid fighting:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573705960325013504



Wow. That is messed up; I don't think South Asians have ever been this bad, to the point you would want to break your own body.

The issue, my brother @RescueRanger, is that even if Putin was to go, Russia wasn't left with any face-saving, and now with Europe squarely against it, and their own next of kin (Ukrainians), they are going to be in survival mode.

We have a 2nd India-Pakistan European Version, a hot point on Europe's doorstep. In this case, the Chinese would be the Americans in that relationship.

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## Viet

dbc said:


> Looks like the Russians are "partially mobilizing" minorities particularly Russian Muslims.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574050174640463873


Yes Putin’s most favorite fighters come from ethnic minorities. When they die, nobody missing them, he believes.
Now Russia middle class is revolting because their sons and daughters are recruited.
Putin did it, now Russia parliament just approved martial laws. Every Russian that refuses to join the army, or runs away will face prison term 5 to 10 years.









Gesetz in Russland: Gefängnis für Deserteure und das Verbot zu Plündern


Wladimir Putin hat ein neues Gesetz unterzeichnet. Laut diesem drohen Deserteuren nun hohe Strafen. Trotzdem regt sich Widerstand.




www.fr.de

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573948518238244864


----------



## aziqbal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You cannot always leave a treaty without consequences.
> There are no extraordinary events that Iran can refer to. Sanctions because Iran is violating the treaty hardly counts.
> 
> The dismantled B-52s represents the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks which significantly reduced the nuclears arms.



Iran is not the problem 

Europeans have been killing each other for 1000s of years and when not killing each other you kill Africans or turn to the Middle East 

so better you keep busy killing each other it gives the rest a break

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Black Saturday
Russia aviation lost 4 fighter jets when trying to halt Ukraine army advancing on Donez front.
Ukraine infantry has moved strong air defense in secret to the front.


----------



## RescueRanger

The trained/experienced and skilled people were already signed up on a really big pay packet with Wagner/Wolf Battalion. Video here:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573762296710660101
Whatever we see now are people who are literally farmers and factory workers and apprentices working in state functions. The young and old conscripts and mobilised reservists are all cannon fodder. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573633758640701440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573711527911235586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573665282668859393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573380545333334017


Just look at this... These people are not true reservists, they have no military deportment about them, they are cannon fodder, pure and simple. 

According to an interview on DW this morning, the Russians are going to schools (yes Schools) and if someone is over 16, they are being asked to sign a summons to join the Russian army, ethnic Russians and ethnic residents who have been living in Russia for the past 15 years or so without citizenship are being granted citizenship in a special ceremony and loaded onto busses for the front line. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572975386111377408
Don't take my word for it... Look even cancer patients are bring signed up:
https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1574011548187729920?s=20&t=2OaVaSXdxkmW47k-jd4SHg

The weapons and equipment they are being given is so old and dated the rifles in this photo are 120 years old that the AKM's actually have mould on the bakerlite grips and completely rusted:
https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1573637522302828545?s=20&t=2OaVaSXdxkmW47k-jd4SHg

Russia "Mobilised" 




__





Loading…






twitter.com

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You cannot always leave a treaty without consequences.
> There are no extraordinary events that Iran can refer to. Sanctions because Iran is violating the treaty hardly counts.


the sanction was not because of treaty , the sanction for treaty was removed in 2020 , they are USA imposed sanction and EU followed one outside the treaty. more importantly , Iran can recite double standards even if Iran violated the treaty. assassinations , also treat of wars from third party. Iran can recite it not be able to use article I and Article V . you see dear uncle Sam and his satanic son already gave Iran the reason to leave the treaty.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> The dismantled B-52s represents the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks which significantly reduced the nuclears arms.


replaced with trident and b-2 and b1-b 
also the article 5 is about disarming the bombs not useless ww2 era bombers that can't do shit to another country with any air defense left
by the way there is also an article that say you must not give nuclear bombs to 3rd countries which already violated at least by France


----------



## mulj

Dhagestan people protested against mobilisation, i hope other minorities will follow and escape cynical disproportion in mobilising numbers among ethnicities and avoid fate of lambs to slaughter for russian war machine.


----------



## Viet

Germany proposes new harsher EU sanctions on Russia.

global price cap on russian oil

EU citizens are forbidden to take top positions at Russia state companies.

companies are forbidden to collaborate with Russia on nuclear sector

More entry bans on Russia important personal. Their assets will be frozen.

total ban of property sales to russians

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## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> The trained/experienced and skilled people were already signed up on a really big pay packet with Wagner/Wolf Battalion. Video here:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573762296710660101
> Whatever we see now are people who are literally farmers and factory workers and apprentices working in state functions. The young and old conscripts and mobilised reservists are all cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573633758640701440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573711527911235586
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573665282668859393
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573380545333334017
> 
> 
> Just look at this... These people are not true reservists, they have no military deportment about them, they are cannon fodder, pure and simple.
> 
> According to an interview on DW this morning, the Russians are going to schools (yes Schools) and if someone is over 16, they are being asked to sign a summons to join the Russian army, ethnic Russians and ethnic residents who have been living in Russia for the past 15 years or so without citizenship are being granted citizenship in a special ceremony and loaded onto busses for the front line.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572975386111377408
> Don't take my word for it... Look even cancer patients are bring signed up:
> https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1574011548187729920?s=20&t=2OaVaSXdxkmW47k-jd4SHg
> 
> The weapons and equipment they are being given is so old and dated the rifles in this photo are 120 years old that the AKM's actually have mould on the bakerlite grips and completely rusted:
> https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1573637522302828545?s=20&t=2OaVaSXdxkmW47k-jd4SHg
> 
> Russia "Mobilised"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> twitter.com



I have a short-term solution to this drinking problem: declare Islam the state religion in Russian Federation cause Catholicism, with all its drunkness, is not working out. That is a sorry state of affairs.

This situation reminds me of a story my father told me years back when a Hindustani singer was called to perform in another country. While on the plane for the first time, he saw clouds and felt wind turbulence, which frightened him. He then called the air hostess to bring several cups of liquor because a single cup was so small. Then, after guzzling several cups and getting fully drunk, he said if the plane crashed, he was not worried because he would not feel anything. 🤣

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Germany proposes new harsher EU sanctions on Russia.
> 
> global price cap on russian oil
> 
> EU citizens are forbidden to take top positions at Russia state companies.
> 
> companies are forbidden to collaborate with Russia on nuclear sector
> 
> More entry bans on Russia important personal. Their assets will be frozen.
> 
> total ban of property sales to russians



If they sanction Russia then Russia will print money instead. Russia has more trees than any other country. Trees are natural resource for printing money.









Will Russia’s Forests Be an Asset or an Obstacle in Climate Fight?


New research indicating Russia’s vast forests store more carbon than previously estimated would seem like good news. But scientists are concerned Russia will count this carbon uptake as an offset in its climate commitments, which would allow its emissions to continue unchecked.




e360.yale.edu


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> BARS 13 and BARS 16.
> 
> If I remember correctly, Russian lost contact with BARS 13 like 2 days ago.



I bet, they do not encircle them completely intentionally.



PakAlp said:


> If Nato/Usa strikes Russia with nukes and as this will hurt N Korea and China so they will retaliate against the Usa/Nato. Yes ofcourse Usa/Nato will then strike China and N Korea. We can't say for sure who will survive but most likely we will all perish. We need to understand Nuclear war will be a disaster for everybody.



Russian most improbable attack plan would only kill 5% of NATO population.



Viet said:


> Black Saturday
> Russia aviation lost 4 fighter jets when trying to halt Ukraine army advancing on Donez front.
> Ukraine infantry has moved strong air defense in secret to the front.



I suspect NASAMS arrival

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> I suspect NASAMS arrival



NASAM is under construction and won't be available until 2024 or 2025.


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574051673026224129



A big, fat target for an MLRS strike


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574066415321382912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574064913626107904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574065106589188096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574063553593606147

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574063151032971265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574057604980121602

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574082959178506241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574083953354575873


----------



## RoadAmerica

aziqbal said:


> Iran is not the problem
> 
> Europeans have been killing each other for 1000s of years and when not killing each other you kill Africans or turn to the Middle East
> 
> so better you keep busy killing each other it gives the rest a break


Middle Eastern’s have been killing each other for thousands of years. You point?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574056366754467841

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## 925boy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Okay rapist...


So why you now attacking me personally? i thought we were respectfully arguing a point only?

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## Hack-Hook

RoadAmerica said:


> Middle Eastern’s have been killing each other for thousands of years. You point?


you see when middle eastern went to war a lot less people would have died . for example in the first major war between Othman empire with Safavid empire not even 1000 died , in Europe the amount of the dead were on another level .


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hack-Hook said:


> you see when middle eastern went to war a lot less people would have died . for example in the first major war between Othman empire with Safavid empire not even 1000 died , in Europe the amount of the dead were on another level .



Millions dead in Thirty Years War, WW1.

Russian T-90 M with a captured ex Polish T-72


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574083872983339017
Havoc shturmovik


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574068305337393153

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## khansaheeb

September 25, 2022 Russia-Ukraine News


Facing protests at home and diminished forces in Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin moved to bolster his military and crack down on dissent.




www.cnn.com




US warns of “catastrophic” consequences if Russia uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine​From CNN's Sam Fossum and Priscilla Alvarez





National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan speaks during the daily news briefing on September 20, in Washington, DC. (Alex Wong/Getty Images)
White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan promised Sunday that there would be "catastrophic" consequences if Russia used a nuclear weapon in Ukraine and said the US will enact further economic sanctions against Russia if the Kremlin completes its "sham" referenda.


> "If Russia crosses this line, there will be catastrophic consequences for Russia. The United States will respond decisively. Now in private channels, we have spelled out in greater detail exactly what that would mean," Sullivan told Chuck Todd on NBC's "Meet The Press."


On further consequences against Russia for the referenda in occupied Ukrainian territories, Sullivan pointed to the G7 leaders’ statement from Friday and said there will be more announcements from the US in the days ahead. 
"They reiterated that there would be consequences and specified that that would include additional enhanced sanctions, including sanctions on entities and companies outside of Russia that are supporting the Russian war machine or supporting these fake referenda or Russia's efforts," Sullivan said. 
In an interview on ABC “This Week”, Sullivan also said the US is planning “for every contingency.” 


> “We want to lay down the principle that there will be catastrophic consequences, but not engage in a game of rhetorical tit for tat. So, the Russians understand where we are, we understand where we are, we are planning for every contingency, and we will do what is necessary to deter Russia from taking this step. And if they do, we will respond decisively,” Sullivan said.


Asked about ongoing protests in Russia, Sullivan said the US is focused on continuing to support Ukraine: “The future of Russia is for the Russian people to decide."




1 hr 58 min ago
UK PM: Russian military escalation and "bogus threats" show Putin has been "outsmarted"​From CNN's Sana Noor Haq




UK Prime Minister Liz Truss speaks with CNN’s Jake Tapper. (CNN)
Vladimir Putin’s announcement of increased military conscription to bolster Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine shows the Russian President “has been outsmarted” by Kyiv, UK Prime Minister Liz Truss told CNN in an exclusive interview.
The new British leader, who takes power at a time of historic upheaval, told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union” that Putin had ordered an immediate military escalation “because he isn’t winning.”
“He made a strategic mistake, invading Ukraine,” Truss said in her first interview with a US network, which aired Sunday.
“I think he has been outsmarted by the Ukrainians. We’ve seen the Ukrainians continue to push back against the Russian offensive. And I think he didn’t anticipate the strength of reaction from the free world.”
Truss, who faces perhaps the biggest set of challenges of any incoming British prime minister since Winston Churchill, met with US President Joe Biden on Wednesday.
In a subsequent interview at 10 Downing Street, she told CNN that Washington “is an incredibly close partner” but did not roll back controversial comments she made last year, while UK Foreign Secretary, in which she described the US-UK relationship as “special but not exclusive.”


> “I do think our relationship is special and it’s increasingly important at a time when we’re facing threats from Russia, increased assertiveness from China. You know, we are both freedom-loving democracies. We have such a strong connection,” she told Tapper.


When asked how Western leaders should respond if Putin ramps up military activity in Ukraine, Truss said they “should not be listening to his saber-rattling and his bogus threats.”
“Instead, what we need to do is continue to put sanctions on Russia and continue to support the Ukrainians.”
*Read more **here**.*


----------



## dbc

Viet said:


> Yes Putin’s most favorite fighters come from ethnic minorities. When they die, nobody missing them, he believes.
> Now Russia middle class is revolting because their sons and daughters are recruited.
> Putin did it, now Russia parliament just approved martial laws. Every Russian that refuses to join the army, or runs away will face prison term 5 to 10 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gesetz in Russland: Gefängnis für Deserteure und das Verbot zu Plündern
> 
> 
> Wladimir Putin hat ein neues Gesetz unterzeichnet. Laut diesem drohen Deserteuren nun hohe Strafen. Trotzdem regt sich Widerstand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fr.de











‘A way to get rid of us’: Crimean Tatars decry Russia’s mobilisation


Members of ethnic group, which has largely opposed Russian rule since 2014, say they are being disproportionately targeted




www.theguardian.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dbc said:


> ‘A way to get rid of us’: Crimean Tatars decry Russia’s mobilisation
> 
> 
> Members of ethnic group, which has largely opposed Russian rule since 2014, say they are being disproportionately targeted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



Tatars claim they are great warriors. Now is the chance to prove themselves.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574038263727357953

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## khansaheeb

Jake Sullivan: US will act ‘decisively’ if Russia uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine


US national security adviser says: ‘Any use of nuclear weapons will be met with catastrophic consequences for Russia’




www.theguardian.com





What if Vladimir Putin used nuclear weapons in Ukraine?​_Experts are not convinced the Russian leader would use nukes, but here are several possible scenarios that could unfold._





A monument to the Soviet Union's first mass-produced tactical nuclear bomb RDS-4 at the Fedora Poletaeva square in Moscow, Russia [File: Maxim Shipenkov/EPA-EFE]
Published On 24 Sep 202224 Sep 2022
President Vladimir Putin’s thinly veiled threat to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine if Russian “territorial integrity” is threatened has sparked deep discussion in the West as to how it would respond.
In a televised address on Wednesday, the Russian leader said he was not bluffing about using nuclear weapons if Russian territories were threatened, as he announced a partial military mobilisation that would see some 300,000 reserve forces sent to fight in Ukraine.
KEEP READING​list of 4 itemslist 1 of 4
Infographic: How many nuclear weapons does Russia have?​list 2 of 4
‘The Cold War was nonsense compared with the situation today’​list 3 of 4
Russia can defend new regions with nuclear weapons: Medvedev​list 4 of 4
Zelenskyy: World would not allow Putin to use nuclear weapons​end of list
“Those who are trying to blackmail us with nuclear weapons should know that the wind can also turn in their direction,” Putin said, adding: “This is not a bluff.”
Analysts are not convinced that Putin is willing to be the first to unleash nuclear weapons since the United States dropped two atomic bombs on Japan in 1945.
Several experts and officials spoke with AFP about the possible scenarios that could arise should Russia carry out a nuclear attack.

What would a Russian nuclear attack look like?​Analysts say Moscow would likely deploy one or more “tactical” or battlefield nuclear bombs.
Tactical nukes are small weapons, ranging from 0.3 kilotons to 100 kilotons of explosive power, compared with the 1.2 megatons of the largest US strategic warhead or the 58 megaton bomb Russia tested in 1961.


Tactical bombs are designed to have a limited impact on the battlefield, compared with strategic nuclear weapons which are designed to fight and win all-out wars.
But “small” and “limited” are relative: The atomic bomb the US dropped on Hiroshima in 1945 to devastating effect was just 15 kilotons.



(Al Jazeera)
What might Moscow target?​Analysts say Russia’s goal in using a tactical nuclear bomb in Ukraine would be to frighten it into surrender or submission to negotiations, and divide the country’s Western backers.
Sign up for Al Jazeera​Weekly Newsletter​The latest news from around the world.Timely. Accurate. Fair.
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By signing up, you agree to our Privacy Policy
Mark Cancian, a military expert with the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington, said Russia would not likely use nuclear weapons on the front lines.
Capturing 20 miles (32km) of territory could require the use of multiple nuclear bombs – small gains for the huge risks of introducing nuclear weapons and nuclear fallout.
“Just using one will not be enough,” Cancian said.

Moscow could instead send a strong message and avoid significant casualties by detonating a nuclear bomb over water, or exploding one high over Ukraine to generate an electromagnetic pulse that would knock out electronic equipment.
Or, Putin could opt to attack a Ukrainian military base, or hit an urban centre and generate mass casualties and possibly kill the country’s political leadership.
Such scenarios “would likely be designed to split the NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) alliance and global consensus against Putin,” Jon Wolfsthal, a former White House nuclear policy expert, wrote on Friday on Substack.
“It is unclear if it would succeed, and could just as easily be seen as desperation as resolve,” he said.



(Al Jazeera)
How should the West respond?​The West has remained ambiguous on how it would respond to a tactical nuclear strike, and the choices are complicated.
The US and NATO do not want to appear weak in front of an implicit nuclear threat. But they also would want to avoid the possibility that the war in Ukraine – not a NATO member – could escalate into a much broader, devastating global nuclear war.

Experts say the West would have no option but to respond to a Russian nuclear attack, and that a response should come from NATO as a group, rather than the US alone.
The US has positioned about 100 of its own tactical nuclear weapons in NATO countries and could respond in kind against Russian forces.
The threat of response would demonstrate resolve and remind Moscow of the danger of its actions, according to Matthew Kroenig of the Atlantic Council.
However, he said, “it might also provoke a Russian nuclear reprisal, raising the risk of a larger nuclear exchange and further humanitarian disaster”.
Another risk is that some NATO members might reject a nuclear response, serving Putin’s aims of weakening the alliance.



(Al Jazeera)
Should Ukraine be given more powerful weapons?​Answering a nuclear attack in a more conventional military or diplomatic way, and supplying Ukraine with more lethal arms to attack Russia, could be more effective, experts say.


“Russian nuclear use might provide an opening to convince countries that have so far been reluctant – such as India and possibly even China – to participate in escalating sanctions,” Kroenig said.
In addition, the US could offer Ukraine NATO aircraft, Patriot and THAAD anti-missile batteries, and ATACMS long-range missiles that could be used by Ukraine forces to strike deep inside Russia.
“Whatever restrictions we have on Ukraine forces – and I think we have some restrictions – I think we take all of those off,” Cancian said.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574078652630929412

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574035379254165504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574065933810819072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574065940962152448

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574046389440479233
Pushing people who don't want to fight into unnecessary wars

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## aziqbal

RoadAmerica said:


> Middle Eastern’s have been killing each other for thousands of years. You point?



even when West interferes Middle East has very small wars compared with Europe who fight each other WITHOUT INTERFERENCE and 100s of millions die

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573951474656239618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573972426546974724

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573965090629582851

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573962523329679361

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## PakFactor

@RescueRanger

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Hello!

I hate what is going on in this world as of now.

This confrontation between US/NATO and Russia shouldn't have happened.

Bad blood and insults/mockery is flowing back and forth.

Russia, looks like, got caught off the guard but history shows they do make a ferocious comeback.

I hate how mobilisation/draft seems to be happening only in towns of ethnic minorities - Muslim areas. That's disgusting and shows how desperate Russia has become.

Mobilisation seems to be a knee jerk reaction by Russia. 

For sake of *balance in world order *- I do wish to see a strong Russia though.

Mr Putin may be fuming at the current situation.

Who would mediate and guarantee peace when the world powers themselves are at loggerheads with each other?

Dangerous situation, it is !!!

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## zectech

Here is the fate of a neo-liberal Jew in Russia who spoke out against nazi Putin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574106078220095489
Russia is a terrorist state.

The UK press saying that Russia commits terrorist actions in Russia and blame Chechens:









Take care Tony, that man has blood on his hands


The photograph below of a detonator pre-set to explode a bomb calls into question Russian leader Vladimir Putin's line - endorsed by Tony Blair during his visit to Russia yesterday - that Chechen terrorists were responsible for the explosions that killed more than 200 Russians last year.




www.theguardian.com





Confirmed by Russians:






If you are a jew and your kid grows up to be for democracy and freedom. Your child could be assassinated by Putin and other nazis.

If you are a jew and your child supports killing Palestinians, then their life is "sacred", and are protected by Trump, Putin, Netanyahu, Bennett, Le Pen and British "government".

If this does not tell you where the global order is headed with these Putinites, then your head is in the sand.

Those against Putin nazis are for peace and brotherhood. Those Putinites are nazi thugs, the new Hitlerites.

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## PakFactor

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Hello!
> 
> I hate what is going on in this world as of now.
> 
> This confrontation between US/NATO and Russia shouldn't have happened.
> 
> Bad blood and insults/mockery is flowing back and forth.
> 
> Russia, looks like, got caught off the guard but history shows they do make a ferocious comeback.
> 
> I hate how mobilisation/draft seems to be happening only in towns of ethnic minorities - Muslim areas. That's disgusting and shows how desperate Russia has become.
> 
> Mobilisation seems to be a knee jerk reaction by Russia.
> 
> For sake of *balance in world order *- I do wish to see a strong Russia though.
> 
> Mr Putin may be fuming at the current situation.
> 
> Who would mediate and guarantee peace when the world powers themselves are at loggerheads with each other?
> 
> Dangerous situation, it is !!!



Don't worry, brother, sit back and relax.

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## The SC



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## Hassan Al-Somal

More revolts in EU 👇







Drones from Iran rule the skies of Ukraine. The whole gear provided by the West became useless against these drones. 👇 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574066130603458561

Imagine the panic!!! Ukraine and its backers got owned by drones bought from Iran. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574064606041055233
A magnificent display of Iranian ingenuity.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574061565392949248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573904077079060480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574111573756502017

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## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> Russian Riot police killed this poor girl with a baton strike to the head.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572646420108410880
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs bullet proof vests and ration packs when the mayor sends you off to war with a twaeez:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573707268054568963
> The reality on the ground is that Gopniks are so scared of mobilisation they are trying to break their arms or injure themselves to avoid fighting:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573705960325013504



What is confirmed she died ? ( brutal )


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574020986739064834

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574020986739064834



How’s that Russian offensive going Hassan? For months all you talked about was Russia taking territory. When in reality it’s Ukraine taking territory

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## Viet

Ukraine receives NASAMS from United States – Zelensky​25.09.2022 20:37

The United States has sent two NASAMS air defense systems to Ukraine.





__





Ukraine receives NASAMS from United States – Zelensky






www.ukrinform.net


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Those Iran-provided drones are wiping out Ukrainian army headquarters, and the cries are coming out of Ukraine. I don't take pleasure in any civilian casualties, but Zelensky and his western backers have been taught a lesson. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573983579897577474

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## K_Bin_W

Hack-Hook said:


> well , NPT also provide benefit and rights for the signatories , also duties for the nuclear armed countries.
> as non of the nuclear armed countries acted on their duties and I ran never reaped any of the benefits that it was supposed to get from signing it then iran my decide to use one of its right and that is *inform 6 month beforeehand to IAEA to GTFO*


Its not 6 months but 3, Like NoKo did..


----------



## F-22Raptor

Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com






Russian losses now at 6,400 for the war

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> How’s that Russian offensive going Hassan? For months all you talked about was Russia taking territory. When in reality it’s Ukraine taking territory





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573826931476385792

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## BHAN85

khansaheeb said:


> September 25, 2022 Russia-Ukraine News
> 
> 
> Facing protests at home and diminished forces in Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin moved to bolster his military and crack down on dissent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US warns of “catastrophic” consequences if Russia uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine​From CNN's Sam Fossum and Priscilla Alvarez
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan speaks during the daily news briefing on September 20, in Washington, DC. (Alex Wong/Getty Images)
> White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan promised Sunday that there would be "catastrophic" consequences if Russia used a nuclear weapon in Ukraine and said the US will enact further economic sanctions against Russia if the Kremlin completes its "sham" referenda.
> 
> On further consequences against Russia for the referenda in occupied Ukrainian territories, Sullivan pointed to the G7 leaders’ statement from Friday and said there will be more announcements from the US in the days ahead.
> "They reiterated that there would be consequences and specified that that would include additional enhanced sanctions, including sanctions on entities and companies outside of Russia that are supporting the Russian war machine or supporting these fake referenda or Russia's efforts," Sullivan said.
> In an interview on ABC “This Week”, Sullivan also said the US is planning “for every contingency.”
> 
> Asked about ongoing protests in Russia, Sullivan said the US is focused on continuing to support Ukraine: “The future of Russia is for the Russian people to decide."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 hr 58 min ago
> UK PM: Russian military escalation and "bogus threats" show Putin has been "outsmarted"​From CNN's Sana Noor Haq
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK Prime Minister Liz Truss speaks with CNN’s Jake Tapper. (CNN)
> Vladimir Putin’s announcement of increased military conscription to bolster Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine shows the Russian President “has been outsmarted” by Kyiv, UK Prime Minister Liz Truss told CNN in an exclusive interview.
> The new British leader, who takes power at a time of historic upheaval, told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union” that Putin had ordered an immediate military escalation “because he isn’t winning.”
> “He made a strategic mistake, invading Ukraine,” Truss said in her first interview with a US network, which aired Sunday.
> “I think he has been outsmarted by the Ukrainians. We’ve seen the Ukrainians continue to push back against the Russian offensive. And I think he didn’t anticipate the strength of reaction from the free world.”
> Truss, who faces perhaps the biggest set of challenges of any incoming British prime minister since Winston Churchill, met with US President Joe Biden on Wednesday.
> In a subsequent interview at 10 Downing Street, she told CNN that Washington “is an incredibly close partner” but did not roll back controversial comments she made last year, while UK Foreign Secretary, in which she described the US-UK relationship as “special but not exclusive.”
> 
> When asked how Western leaders should respond if Putin ramps up military activity in Ukraine, Truss said they “should not be listening to his saber-rattling and his bogus threats.”
> “Instead, what we need to do is continue to put sanctions on Russia and continue to support the Ukrainians.”
> *Read more **here**.*


Kill thousands people with automatic guns is OK for USA.

But kill thousands people with nuclear/chemical/biological is a bad thing for USA.



The same speech than in Syria and chemical weapons.

I guess dead people doesnt care about if they are killed by automatic gun fire or any other weapon.

But USA knows how to handle masses of stupid people.

Nuclear/Chemical/Biological killed people would be main headlines.
And convetional weapons killed people are just statistics.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Hopefully, Iranians will obtain enriched, weapons-grade Uranium that they could use to develop nukes in exchange for these drones being sent to Russia. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573826224585162752


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573801539310948353

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574098775605477376
There are no secondary lines of defense for Russia here. Russia is perilously close to losing all of the northern Luhansk oblast.

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## Soldier35

Ukrainian media published footage of a Russian UAV Mohajer-6 manufactured by Iran that fell into the sea near Odessa. The reason for the fall of the UAV is unknown, visually it is intact, there may be a loss of communication with the command post. After the discovery of the drone, the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry withdrew the accreditation of the Iranian ambassador to Ukraine. The Mohajer-6 UAV has been produced in Iran since 2017 and is designed for reconnaissance, surveillance and fire destruction. Mohajer-6 was used in combat operations in Iraq, Syria and Ethiopia, where it performed well. The drone can use third-generation Almas anti-tank missiles, which are used on a fire-and-forget basis, this is an analogue of Israeli Spike missiles. The range of the drone is 200 km, the time spent in the air is 12 hours, the flight altitude is up to 5500 meters. The drone is quite large and has a wingspan of 10 meters, a flight speed of about 200 km/h. Takeoff weight - 670 kg, payload - 100 kg.






A group of Russian drones "Geran-2", as you know, it is an Iranian kamikaze drone "Shahed-136" attacked the Ukrainian city of Odessa. Judging by the video, the air defense of Ukraine did not notice them, since only shots from small arms were heard throughout Odessa. It is known that the Geran-2 UAV attack was large-scale, one of the UAVs was shot down from small arms. Several drones reached the target and struck in the area of the port of Odessa.






One of the soldiers of the Ukrainian army spoke about his impressions of the battles with PMC Wagner in Ukraine. Where there are battles with PMC Wagner, it is very problematic to conduct offensives of the Ukrainian army.






Video of the results of the battle of the Ukrainian army near the village of Pravdino, Kherson region. During the counteroffensive of the Ukrainian army in this direction, a battle ensued with units of the Russian Airborne Forces. As a result of the battle, the Ukrainian army reportedly lost 7 tanks and 13 armored vehicles.






The Ukrainian army is actively creating mobile military groups, how correctly these are civilian vehicles with handicraft-mounted weapons. The weapons installed in the vehicles are very diverse, from small arms and grenade launchers to improvised MLRS.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574127821034848263

No one wants to die for Putins war


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573826931476385792




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574130958705508352

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574098775605477376
> There are no secondary lines of defense for Russia here. Russia is perilously close to losing all of the northern Luhansk oblast.



News of mass surrenders from around Lyman coming. There are few platoons left in the town, 3 by counting radio callsigns of commanders, and one of them led his platoon to surrender.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> News of mass surrenders from around Lyman coming. There are few platoons left in the town, 3 by counting radio callsigns of commanders, and one of them led his platoon to surrender.



It seems the Russians are getting desperate on this front. It’s why we’ve seen an uptick in downed Russian aircraft in recent days.

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## RescueRanger

As per posts on social media at least she died. The police took her into the bank. Wonder how many more have died and not been captured on any video. 


Ali_Baba said:


> What is confirmed she died ? ( brutal

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## RoadAmerica

Hack-Hook said:


> you see when middle eastern went to war a lot less people would have died . for example in the first major war between Othman empire with Safavid empire not even 1000 died , in Europe the amount of the dead were on another level .


Lol plenty of wars and killing between them much more recently, don’t have to go back to the Othman Empire


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574126259218837504

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574137789293027328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574139058917298176

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573621517623099393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573737281613139969


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> the sanction was not because of treaty , the sanction for treaty was removed in 2020 , they are USA imposed sanction and EU followed one outside the treaty. more importantly , Iran can recite double standards even if Iran violated the treaty. assassinations , also treat of wars from third party. Iran can recite it not be able to use article I and Article V . you see dear uncle Sam and his satanic son already gave Iran the reason to leave the treaty.
> 
> replaced with trident and b-2 and b1-b
> also the article 5 is about disarming the bombs not useless ww2 era bombers that can't do shit to another country with any air defense left
> by the way there is also an article that say you must not give nuclear bombs to 3rd countries which already violated at least by France


*Article I*

Each nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to transfer to any recipient whatsoever nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or control over such weapons or explosive devices directly, or indirectly; and not in any way to assist, encourage,
or induce any non-nuclear-weapon State to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices, or control over such weapons or explosive devices.
——
I do not see any violation of Article I that Iran can use to leave the treaty.
.
——

*Article V*

Each Party to the Treaty undertakes to take appropriate measures to ensure that, in accordance with this Treaty, under appropriate international observation and through appropriate international procedures, potential benefits from any *peaceful applications of nuclear explosions *will be made available to non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty on a non-discriminatory basis and that the charge to such Parties for the explosive devices used will be as low as possible and exclude any charge for research and development. Non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty shall be able to obtain such benefits, pursuant to a special international agreement or agreements, through an appropriate international body with adequate representation of non-nuclear-weapon States. Negotiations on this subject shall commence as soon as possible after the Treaty enters into force. Non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty so desiring may also obtain such benefits pursuant to bilateral agreements.

——

There are no peaceful applications of nuclear explosions.
You arguments seems to lack substance.

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574098775605477376
> There are no secondary lines of defense for Russia here. Russia is perilously close to losing all of the northern Luhansk oblast.


Hopefully the ukrainians have the recources and manpower to make yet another major push into northern Luhansk an conquer Svatove and Starobil’s’k. Just to make Putin look like an idiot.

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## Paul2

Just seen a video of 2 Russian soldier from that platoon which surrendered this morning, all around Telegrams now, in public groups.


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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574137789293027328
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574139058917298176


Its just plain terror using those drones. Hopefully we will see german Gepards shooting those things down in the future.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Hopefully the ukrainians have the recources and manpower to make yet another major push into northern Luhansk an conquer Svarove and Starobil’s’k. Just to make Putin look like an idiot.



With 35 million people against 150 million people. Fat chance. Sun Tzu once said war depends on 3 factors: 人力, 物力, 财力. Man power, material power, financial power.

new Russian deputy defense minister Mikhail Mizintsev AKA The Butcher.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> replaced with trident and b-2 and b1-b
> also the article 5 is about disarming the bombs not useless ww2 era bombers that can't do shit to another country with any air defense left
> by the way there is also an article that say you must not give nuclear bombs to 3rd countries which already violated at least by France


You do not replace 5-600 bombers with a handful.
The B-52 is not a WW2 bomber and can launch cruise missiles.
It will remain in service long after the B-1B and B-2 are gone.

Both the Soviet Union and the US significantly reduced their nuclear forces.
China, not so much.

France has not given any nuclear bombs to anyone AFAIK.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573972576602300419

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574054768066043905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574055129090752518

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574130958705508352


Is that all Ukrainians can show for $20 billion of US tax payer money?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

American quality


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574059790824792066

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## ziaulislam

Seems everyone is having delusions here that even western analyst aren't.

Russia has for the first time clarified it goals. She no longer wants to take all Ukraine and is only going to focus on three regions that it already has taken 80% and is advancing even now as we speak
Sure it's withdrawing from Kharkov and areas surrounding it is not going to annex that region anyway

Seems everyone will end up being happy once Russia annex those regions just like in crimera

Doubt Europe will have appetite to continue this war once Russia calls those land as Russian.

Here is Ukraine victory map.
The greenish blue area is what Russia intend to take with only two major cities it wants to take. My guess Russia is going to keeping with drawing so it can focus on donbass and zaoprizhzhia

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ziaulislam said:


> Seems everyone is having delusions here that even western analyst aren't.
> 
> Russia has for the first time clarified it goals. She no longer wants to take all Ukraine and is only going to focus on three regions that it already has taken 80% and is advancing even now as we speak
> Sure it's withdrawing from Kharkov and areas surrounding it is not going to annex that region anyway
> 
> Seems everyone will end up being happy once Russia annex those regions just like in crimera
> 
> Doubt Europe will have appetite to continue this war once Russia calls those land as Russian.
> 
> Here is Ukraine victory map.
> The greenish blue area is what Russia intend to take with only two major cities it wants to take. My guess Russia is going to keeping with drawing so it can focus on donbass and zaoprizhzhia
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 882546
> 
> 
> View attachment 882547



With the newly annexed areas for the first time Russia population tops 150 million people. Not bad.

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## ziaulislam

Real word western analyst reporting









Russia-Ukraine war: Ukraine says it has pushed Russian forces back near Kramatorsk; last Zaporizhzhia reactor disconnected after Russian shelling – as it happened


Operator Energoatom says last transmission line cut because of a fire caused by shelling; EU and Ukraine sign aid deal




www.theguardian.com






"Ukraine victory & Russian withdrawal outside areas it wants to annex. With Russians still putting pressure on donbas region"

Vs.

Pdf delusional tomboys and hee-haa

ukrain gonna march to Moscow

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573775589034676229

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## khansaheeb

What Russia fears:-









NATO on the Map


Explore this interactive map to learn more about NATO, how the Alliance works and how it responds to today’s security challenges




www.nato.int


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## aviator_fan

alimobin memon said:


> Twitter is not a great source of info for war.


You are absolutely right. I am surprised how many (pro and against each side) post it by the dozens every day as if its TASS or the BBC. The only time I watch them is on this forum. I am off twitter

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> What Russia fears:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO on the Map
> 
> 
> Explore this interactive map to learn more about NATO, how the Alliance works and how it responds to today’s security challenges
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nato.int



NATO is powerful, but not as powerful as China + CSTO. Also, NATO is held together by the US. By 2050 the US is not white majority and weak like Mexico and Brazil and NATO breaks up.

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## MeFishToo

ziaulislam said:


> Real word western analyst reporting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine war: Ukraine says it has pushed Russian forces back near Kramatorsk; last Zaporizhzhia reactor disconnected after Russian shelling – as it happened
> 
> 
> Operator Energoatom says last transmission line cut because of a fire caused by shelling; EU and Ukraine sign aid deal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Ukraine victory & Russian withdrawal outside areas it wants to annex. With Russians still putting pressure on donbas region"
> 
> Vs.
> 
> Pdf delusional tomboys and hee-haa
> 
> ukrain gonna march to Moscow


Beating a strawman doesnt make you right. Russia is trying to define its goals in the aftermath of its failed offensive. Luhansk is at stake at this moment, and russias finest are facing defeat in the Kherson region west of Dnieper river. There is no way Russia is getting away with another sham referendum in Ukraine again.
Russia is facing a combined indefinitely western support of Ukraine, no matter how many times Putins going to remind us Russia is a nuclear power.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Beating a strawman doesnt make you right. Russia is trying to define its goals in the aftermath of its failed offensive. Luhansk is at stake at this moment, and russias finest are facing defeat in the Kherson region west of Dnieper river. There is no way Russia is getting away with another sham referendum in Ukraine again.
> Russia is facing a combined indefinitely western support of Ukraine, no matter how many times Putins going to remind us Russia is a nuclear power.



There is no such thing as forever support. The US gave up supporting South Vietnam and Ghani Afghanistan. If the pressure is too much, the US will give up supporting Ukraine and support the winning side Russia which is bigger and has bigger consumer products market which is more profitable.

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## aviator_fan

jhungary said:


> You are of course entitled to my opinion, as much as I do, and that's my opinion, it's okay you disagree with.
> 
> However, I will want to say one thing tho. Hedging the bet is the right move, however, this is actually the third success Counter Attacks carried out by the Ukrainian, first being push back all the territories North of Kyiv in late March, second being Push back all the territories north of Kharkiv and Sumy in May, and this Kharkiv Offensive is the third successful counter attack (fourth if we also counted the limited local offensive in Mykolaiv and Kherson leading to liberation of snake island and some ground North of Kherson)
> 
> So if this is a bet, and the West want to wait and see how the Ukrainian is doing and whether or not they should be helped by NATO I will say if I am a risky betting man, I would put my hat in the ring after they push the Russian off Kyiv, and if I was a conservative betting man, I would bet on Ukraine after the Sumy/Kharkiv offensive, you know by then they can't lose, but then the west and the US did nothing, and even a month after the third successful counter offensive, the support is still not coming.
> 
> The Ukrainian really need to have that list of weapons to make a different, otherwise it will be a slow grind. they need a big push, and the west is probably at this stage setting them back at the moment, because I don't think the Russian would have answer to any general big push (like push on all front) if the Ukrainian did it. But then the Ukrainian won't because they are lacking the tanks, artillery, SPG to make it happen, you can't just lob bodies against the line and hope it will break thru and you won't be able to catch Russia with their pants down twice.
> 
> That's my assessment.


My last comment was referring to the situation back in Jan-June. I agree with you that now situation is a lot more dynamic and more will have to be done. As both sides try to get an edge, I hope there is something being done to analyze how to electronically neutralize the Iranian drones . Now that they are in operation, it will be easier to detect their signals for analysis to see how to non-kinetically neutralize them.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> My bet comment was referring to the situation back in Jan-June. I agree with you that now situation is a lot more dynamic and more will have to be done. As both sides try to get an edge, I hope there is something being done to analyze how to electronically neutralize the Iranian drones . Now that they are in operation, it will be easier to detect their signals for analysis to see how to non-kinetically neutralize them.



You cannot neutralize if they are not remote controlled. Buzz bombs are essentially prop powered cruise missiles.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> You cannot neutralize if they are not remote controlled. Buzz bombs are essentially prop powered cruise missiles.


Now that they have picked up the first drone out of the water, its a matter of time to see what RF or microwave specifically will work against it. This drone is a game changer for 3-4 weeks, at best. 

NATO's OODA loop is much faster than any adversary in terms being ready strategically for the future and also in a tactical situation.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Now that they have picked up the first drone out of the water, its a matter of time to see what RF or microwave specifically will work against it. This drone is a game changer for 3-4 weeks, at best.
> 
> NATO's OODA loop is much faster than any adversary in terms being ready strategically for the future and also in a tactical situation.



Cost benefit analysis. Prop powered drones are dirt cheap. They can deplete much more expensive hardware like MANPADS. Especially considering Russia set up a number of factories manufacturing dozens of these a day.


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## PakAlp

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You do not get it.
> If the US decides to do a massive strike on Russia, then they will attack China and North Korea as well - at the same time.
> Allowing China to attack the US first before attacking China is going to have higher US casualties.
> It is in Chinas best interest to threaten Russia with nuclear war to stop Putin from initiating the exchange.



I doubt Usa will do just that. Attacking 3 Nuclear states at once would have severe consequences. China in return will fire everything at USA and Europe, Russia will also do the same. We can say Russian nukes are not good enough but China has plenty of nukes, from air to ground, from submarines, ballistic missiles. Nuclear strike on China will destroy India aswell. The conclusion is afterwards we will most likely be living in bunkers or caves.

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## The SC

ziaulislam said:


> Seems everyone is having delusions here that even western analyst aren't.
> 
> Russia has for the first time clarified it goals. She no longer wants to take all Ukraine and is only going to focus on three regions that it already has taken 80% and is advancing even now as we speak
> Sure it's withdrawing from Kharkov and areas surrounding it is not going to annex that region anyway
> 
> Seems everyone will end up being happy once Russia annex those regions just like in crimera
> 
> Doubt Europe will have appetite to continue this war once Russia calls those land as Russian.
> 
> Here is Ukraine victory map.
> The greenish blue area is what Russia intend to take with only two major cities it wants to take. My guess Russia is going to keeping with drawing so it can focus on donbass and zaoprizhzhia
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 882546
> 
> 
> View attachment 882547


You nailed it..


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## beast89

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573775589034676229



Chechens working


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## ziaulislam

MeFishToo said:


> Beating a strawman doesnt make you right. Russia is trying to define its goals in the aftermath of its failed offensive. Luhansk is at stake at this moment, and russias finest are facing defeat in the Kherson region west of Dnieper river. There is no way Russia is getting away with another sham referendum in Ukraine again.
> Russia is facing a combined indefinitely western support of Ukraine, no matter how many times Putins going to remind us Russia is a nuclear power.


Is it?
At least not from the people
People worry more about gas prices rather then donbass region.


My assement is war is getting in end zone..if Russia takes donbass does referendum this will effectively means Europe will agree to step back and accept this in exchange for gas

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## khansaheeb

MeFishToo said:


> Beating a strawman doesnt make you right. Russia is trying to define its goals in the aftermath of its failed offensive. Luhansk is at stake at this moment, and russias finest are facing defeat in the Kherson region west of Dnieper river. There is no way Russia is getting away with another sham referendum in Ukraine again.
> Russia is facing a combined indefinitely western support of Ukraine, no matter how many times Putins going to remind us Russia is a nuclear power.


No, Russia defined it's goal when it sent around 100K soldiers to invade Ukraine, it was obvious then that it was a limited operation. Putin's only gripe was the attack on Russian people in the Donbass region. If the Ukrainians hadn't attacked the Donbass region and ignited a civil war they would be living peacefully now. But the Ukrainians were egged on for the greater glory of NATO which has lead the world to the precipice of nuclear war. One miscalculation or mistake and the Europe could be devastated.

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## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> Seems everyone is having delusions here that even western analyst aren't.
> 
> Russia has for the first time clarified it goals. She no longer wants to take all Ukraine and is only going to focus on three regions that it already has taken 80% and is advancing even now as we speak
> Sure it's withdrawing from Kharkov and areas surrounding it is not going to annex that region anyway
> 
> Seems everyone will end up being happy once Russia annex those regions just like in crimera
> 
> Doubt Europe will have appetite to continue this war once Russia calls those land as Russian.
> 
> Here is Ukraine victory map.
> The greenish blue area is what Russia intend to take with only two major cities it wants to take. My guess Russia is going to keeping with drawing so it can focus on donbass and zaoprizhzhia
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 882546
> 
> 
> View attachment 882547


Actually, most analyst I know, including me, think Referendum would not change the ground matrix any bit, the fighting is going to continue because of 4 factors.

1.) Annexation cannot be fully implemented because Ukraine still holds lands that holding these "Referendum". And there are no way Russia can dislodge that force, even with 300,000 partial mobilisations.

2.) General sentiment in some parts of Annexed area is hostile to Russia, unlike in Crimea, which is generally friendly to Russia, this is quite apparent for the roughly 35 assassinations to Pro-Russia Official in occupied Region.

3.) There is nothing Russia can do to change the matrix on the ground, because there are only 2 courses of action left if Ukraine and the West keep attacking the so called "Annexed" territories. Nuclear Option and Full Mobilisation. Nuclear option would mean either the world (Including Russia) loses this war because we all die as it will escalate into a global thermonuclear conflict. Don't ever kid yourself a single or a few Tactical Nuclear Device will not do anything, if even one Tactical Nuclear Device is used, it WILL escalate. On the other hand, full mobilisation will not change the war because of the fundamental problem the Russian suffer from the beginning of the war, which is command and control problem, logistic problem, morale problem. Just because Putin claim this is now Russian land does not make Russian suddenly want to fight for those land, which is evidenced that even a Partial Mobilisation with reserve troop spawn into a massive protest and exodus.

I have explained in detail according to my Knowledge of how NATO works for the years I work for NATO command, what they will do when Russia send a Tactical Nuclear Device to any big city in Ukraine, like Kyiv, Kharkiv or Lviv. Believe it or not is up to you



jhungary said:


> I will tell you what US and EU WILL do if and when Russia nuke Kyiv with a 20-50kt tactical nuclear device.
> 
> First of all, there are going to be EU or NATO peacekeeper in and around Kyiv, that's a given. That's 100% it will happen
> 
> Then high chance (between 70-90%) NATO will enforce a no-fly zone to stop every air traffic in Ukraine. That's highly likely in order to contain the nuclear fallout.
> 
> Medium chance (about 50-60%) NATO will enact a peacemaking mission, declaring all Russian force within pre-2022 or 2014 border as legitimate target. And will deploy troop and air asset on the ground and pound the Russian force in Ukraine international border, every target will be destroyed. That is done so NATO can insert peacekeeper to enforce border security between Ukraine and Russia and stop the ongoing conflict. Stop the conflict from getting further out of hand.
> 
> Low chance (Between 20% to 40%) NATO will fly into Russia and destroy strategic target or nuclear capable target, also known as "Full Count" to stop further nuclear escalation.
> 
> What Russia will do is either take lost in Ukraine, or escalate to global nuclear option, as long as NATO does not have ground intrusion into Russia, this is highly unlikely to happen.
> 
> Problem is, once you use a tactical nuclear device, then NATO have to intervene. Because either NATO did not do anything, and Russia will use the same trick on other country, or even NATO member, and second, most likely the radioactive fallout will float into Poland and Poland will initiate Article 5. So NATO are going to do something, as far as I know from what I served in NATO capacity, those are the option they have.



4.) Almost all military aid package are pre-planned (ie the draw down, and the lend least coming into effect in October) It will not likely for politican to go back on those planning with a referendum result, which mean there are going to stteady supplies of Western Arms at least until deep into Next June. 

And any objective analyst will tell you Referendum is not actually showing Russian strength to the position of this war, rather, it shows that Russia is getting desperate because they believe or at least want to believe, if they annexed those land then hostility will stop, it just won't because the war in the Ukrainian side is power by two things. 1.) Kick the Russian out, that's their motivation. 2.) Western Support. Both of which are unlikely to stop even after these "Referendum". In fact, it would most likely going the other way, which legitimate Crimea into Ukrainian target list because it will be the same status as other "annexed" territories. 

That's my honest assessment on the ground situation, this is as if Think Tank want to commission me for my thought, believe it, don't believe it, it is up to you, and I guess we will find out in 4 days.

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## ziaulislam

khansaheeb said:


> No, Russia defined it's goal when it sent around 100K soldiers to invade Ukraine, it was obvious then that it was a limited operation. Putin's only gripe was the attack on Russian people in the Donbass region. If the Ukrainians hadn't attacked the Donbass region and ignited a civil war they would be living peacefully now. But the Ukrainians were egged on for the greater glory of NATO which has lead the world to the precipice of nuclear war. One miscalculation or mistake and the Europe could be devastated.


Wrong
Putin just claimed it was limited op.
His goal was the capital..

But now he has given up on that goal



jhungary said:


> Actually, most analyst I know, including me, think Referendum would not change the ground matrix any bit, the fighting is going to continue because of 4 factors.
> 
> 1.) Annexation cannot be fully implemented because Ukraine still holds lands that holding these "Referendum". And there are no way Russia can dislodge that force, even with 300,000 partial mobilisations.
> 
> 2.) General sentiment in some parts of Annexed area is hostile to Russia, unlike in Crimea, which is generally friendly to Russia, this is quite apparent for the roughly 35 assassinations to Pro-Russia Official in occupied Region.
> 
> 3.) There is nothing Russia can do to change the matrix on the ground, because there are only 2 courses of action left if Ukraine and the West keep attacking the so called "Annexed" territories. Nuclear Option and Full Mobilisation. Nuclear option would mean either the world (Including Russia) loses this war because we all die as it will escalate into a global thermonuclear conflict. Don't ever kid yourself a single or a few Tactical Nuclear Device will not do anything, if even one Tactical Nuclear Device is used, it WILL escalate. On the other hand, full mobilisation will not change the war because of the fundamental problem the Russian suffer from the beginning of the war, which is command and control problem, logistic problem, morale problem. Just because Putin claim this is now Russian land does not make Russian suddenly want to fight for those land, which is evidenced that even a Partial Mobilisation with reserve troop spawn into a massive protest and exodus.
> 
> I have explained in detail according to my Knowledge of how NATO works for the years I work for NATO command, what they will do when Russia send a Tactical Nuclear Device to any big city in Ukraine, like Kyiv, Kharkiv or Lviv. Believe it or not is up to you
> 
> 
> 
> 4.) Almost all military aid package are pre-planned (ie the draw down, and the lend least coming into effect in October) It will not likely for politican to go back on those planning with a referendum result, which mean there are going to stteady supplies of Western Arms at least until deep into Next June.
> 
> And any objective analyst will tell you Referendum is not actually showing Russian strength to the position of this war, rather, it shows that Russia is getting desperate because they believe or at least want to believe, if they annexed those land then hostility will stop, it just won't because the war in the Ukrainian side is power by two things. 1.) Kick the Russian out, that's their motivation. 2.) Western Support. Both of which are unlikely to stop even after these "Referendum". In fact, it would most likely going the other way, which legitimate Crimea into Ukrainian target list because it will be the same status as other "annexed" territories.
> 
> That's my honest assessment on the ground situation, this is as if Think Tank want to commission me for my thought, believe it, don't believe it, it is up to you, and I guess we will find out in 4 days.


It changed in crimera it will change it now too.
Once annexed and captured Russian will do everything including nukes to keep the areas. 
Super power don't give up their home land 

The war will effectively be over if Russia captures and annex the areas..it already has 80% of region..

Hence why Ukraine will throw everything at this time before the referendum

Regardless situation will get clear in 4-6 weeks


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574178948786823168

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> My last comment was referring to the situation back in Jan-June. I agree with you that now situation is a lot more dynamic and more will have to be done. As both sides try to get an edge, I hope there is something being done to analyze how to electronically neutralize the Iranian drones . Now that they are in operation, it will be easier to detect their signals for analysis to see how to non-kinetically neutralize them.


As my previous post said, there are just not enough support provided to Ukraine by the West at the beginning, 40 billion may seems a lot but a lot of those money goes to flying the Ukrainian to US or NATO Territories and then training and hosting those troop. 

Actual article transfer is minimal. 

Again, I was talking with a friend of mine who is a retired Lieutenant Colonel in the Army. Both him and I agree that there are going to be increasing shift to the materiel support to Ukraine after winter, now that Russia dropped the disguise of this "Special Military Operation" and turn them into a full-blown war. I mean, no point holding back and hoping they won't do it when they are already doing it. Of the equipment in US stock, we expect transfer of 

Tanks (Either older M1 Stock or Upgraded M60 Patton)
Drones (MQ-1 or MQ-9) 
Anti-Aircraft system. (Either more NASAM or Patriot system) 
M270/HIMARS MLRS
M109A6 SPG
M1128 Stryker Mobile Gun System.
Likely ground attack aircraft (Like Tucano or even A-10 Thunderbolt)



ziaulislam said:


> It changed in crimera it will change it now too.
> Once annexed and captured Russian will do everything including nukes to keep the areas.
> Super power don't give up their home land
> 
> The war will effectively be over if Russia captures and annex the areas..it already has 80% of region..
> 
> Hence why Ukraine will throw everything at this time before the referendum
> 
> Regardless situation will get clear in 4-6 weeks


It won't change, in fact, the only thing that will change is the Ukrainian will change the altitude toward Crimea and making it legitimate target.

All the source I have in Ukraine said they will now up the tempo and will take Crimea back, now whether or not they can do it depends on a lot of factors, but that point to you the decision and dynamic shift from being a safe haven for Russia to a legitimate target. 

I mean, I have listed my reason for my opinion, if you want to ignore all that, that's fine, but if you are so blindly think that "Thing will change because it will" well, I can tell you most of the time it just won't. 

Again, I guess we will find out who's right in 4 days, when Russia assessed to announce the annexation of those land.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Over time Russia's man power advantage over Ukraine increases. 10 years from now Russia population 150 million compared to Ukraine's 20 million. It becomes more and more difficult for Ukraine to fight. In the end America will back Russia over Ukraine for the sake of profits. America betrayed South Vietnam and Ghani Afghanistan. You cannot depend on America.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574187816841527297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574188503721713669

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574189025862246404

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574186326018215948

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574187137125470209

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## jhungary

Explosion heard in Berdiansk









Explosion rocks Russian-occupied city of Berdiansk


A powerful explosion has rocked the center of the temporarily occupied city of Berdiansk, Zaporizhzhia region. — Ukrinform.




www.ukrinform.net





Too far for HIMARS, so either this is one of those Russian simultaneous explosions, or it's work for Ukrainian partisan.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Explosion heard in Berdiansk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explosion rocks Russian-occupied city of Berdiansk
> 
> 
> A powerful explosion has rocked the center of the temporarily occupied city of Berdiansk, Zaporizhzhia region. — Ukrinform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ukrinform.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too far for HIMARS, so either this is one of those Russian simultaneous explosions, or it's work for Ukrainian partisan.



Berdy is one of Russia's most important port cities. No doubt it is heavily guarded.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573954033739522050

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574185559517548545

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## PakFactor

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573621517623099393
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573737281613139969





Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> With 35 million people against 150 million people. Fat chance. Sun Tzu once said war depends on 3 factors: 人力, 物力, 财力. Man power, material power, financial power.
> 
> new Russian deputy defense minister Mikhail Mizintsev AKA The Butcher.



This man has the face of a typical Ku Klux Klan member who'd gladly wear the signature white hood. Well, I approve, now go and wreck the place.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakFactor said:


> This man has the face of a typical Ku Klux Klan member who'd gladly wear the signature white hood. Well, I approve, now go and wreck the place.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574148404128911360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574160851740741633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574152370698985472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574157021263298562

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574125380146962432

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I do not see any violation of Article I that Iran can use to leave the treaty.


France transferred bomb making technology to Israel and South Africa and that Israel part very well can be used in that regard. now if you want to claim Israel don't have Nukes that is another discussion . also Germany by providing dolphin submarine , provided them with second nuclear strike capabilities .


RoadAmerica said:


> Lol plenty of wars and killing between them much more recently, don’t have to go back to the Othman Empire


in all of them traces of European and American handiwork


A.P. Richelieu said:


> There are no peaceful applications of nuclear explosions.
> You arguments seems to lack substance.


a nuclear reactor is nothing but controlled nuclear explosion 
but let amuse you


> ARTICLE IV
> 1. Nothing in this Treaty shall be interpreted as affecting the inalienable right of all the
> Parties to the Treaty to develop research, production and use of nuclear energy for peaceful
> purposes without discrimination and in conformity with Articles I and II of this Treaty.
> 2. All the Parties to the Treaty undertake to facilitate, and have the right to participate in. the
> fullest possible exchange of equipment, materials and scienti fic and technological information
> for the peaceful uses of nuclear energy. Parties to the Treaty in a position to do so shall also co -
> operate in contributing alone or together with other States or international organizations to the
> further development of t he applications of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes, especially in
> the territories of non -nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty, with due consideration for the
> needs of the developing areas of the world.





A.P. Richelieu said:


> You do not replace 5-600 bombers with a handful.
> The B-52 is not a WW2 bomber and can launch cruise missiles.
> It will remain in service long after the B-1B and B-2 are gone.
> 
> Both the Soviet Union and the US significantly reduced their nuclear forces.
> China, not so much.


old tech belong to ww2 and they increased the number of warheads and their lethality


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574094974177759233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574078290951806976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574067164901949442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574044737081905153

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Zoopark-1M counter battery radar at the 0:42 mark


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574067164901949442

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574179709814181888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573982546001526785

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I bet, they do not encircle them completely intentionally.


Don't know why I missed this quote......But anyway. 

Yes, this is the old "Switch and Bait" The reason they didn't take Lyman immediately (maybe a week after the Kharkiv push) is most likely an Ukrainian plan try to trap more Russian soldier in the eventual encirclement of Lyman. They bait the Russian to reinforce the city and try to trap as many as it can. 

I think they probably trapped an entire Battalion, now with Nove felt, there are only one way to withdraw, and that way was covered by Ukrainian artillery.....

And that' what I am going to say at this point because I promised some of my source in Ukraine that I don't talk about their operation publicly due to OPSEC. You never know who is watching....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Strelkov threatens Ukrainians with war


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574132296453701633

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Strelkov threatens Ukrainians with war
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574132296453701633



Next year the war starts. In 2011 there wasn't much fighting in Syria. Only starting in 2012 war started in Syria.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574188503721713669

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574187816841527297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574189025862246404


----------



## alimobin memon

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


>


Bond villain feeling after retiring should act in one of bond films hahaha

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574187137125470209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574143481764790272

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573089573089017862

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## A.P. Richelieu

PakAlp said:


> I doubt Usa will do just that. Attacking 3 Nuclear states at once would have severe consequences. China in return will fire everything at USA and Europe, Russia will also do the same. We can say Russian nukes are not good enough but China has plenty of nukes, from air to ground, from submarines, ballistic missiles. Nuclear strike on China will destroy India aswell. The conclusion is afterwards we will most likely be living in bunkers or caves.


As I said, if the US attacks only Russia, then China will attack the US.
Why would the US wait until the Chinese strike, if that is 100% guaranteed?
If your last prediction is true, why would not China threaten Russia against using nuclear arms?



khansaheeb said:


> No, Russia defined it's goal when it sent around 100K soldiers to invade Ukraine, it was obvious then that it was a limited operation. Putin's only gripe was the attack on Russian people in the Donbass region. If the Ukrainians hadn't attacked the Donbass region and ignited a civil war they would be living peacefully now. But the Ukrainians were egged on for the greater glory of NATO which has lead the world to the precipice of nuclear war. One miscalculation or mistake and the Europe could be devastated.


Trying to lie about history when everyone present experienced the event is kinda lame…



Hack-Hook said:


> France transferred bomb making technology to Israel and South Africa and that Israel part very well can be used in that regard. now if you want to claim Israel don't have Nukes that is another discussion . also Germany by providing dolphin submarine , provided them with second nuclear strike capabilities .
> 
> in all of them traces of European and American handiwork
> 
> a nuclear reactor is nothing but controlled nuclear explosion
> but let amuse you
> 
> 
> 
> old tech belong to ww2 and they increased the number of warheads and their lethality



It is yet to be confirmed that Israel has nuclear arms.
I guess you have proof that France transferred nuclear weapons technology to Israel - not.
Things that happened (if it happened) 50 years ago can hardly be used as a reason to leave now. The fact that Israel in that case had nuclear arms for 50 years is proof enough,
Possession by Israel of nuclear arms is not reason to leave.
Israel has not threatened Iran with nuclear attacks.
Trying to leave without a good cause will have consequences.
So just hot air…

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## Reashot Xigwin

The real Russian mobilization

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574121847641149440

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## alimobin memon

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The real Russian mobilization
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574121847641149440


I remember during Pandemic all rich people form India and Pakistan fled to thailand or other areas. This is norm when you have money apparently you run away.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The real Russian mobilization
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574121847641149440


Makes sense why dying worthless in a foreign country?

Ukraine offers fleeing Russia soldiers fair treatment.

Germany offers asylum for deserting Russia soldiers.

Bonus: I am willing to give free wodka to top Russia deserters (it costs 5 euros per 1l bottle here).

Let Putin, Medwedew, Lavrov send their sons and daughters to Donbas.

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## Viet

Al Mahdi said:


> Armenia is a weakling state, russia doesnt need them, thats why armenia was thrown under the bus in the first place.
> 
> germoney stronk1111
> 
> Allah is not impotent like the usual anglo saxon or french trash. in fact ALLAH is omnipotent and he says in the quran "We could have made everyone equal but we did not, so they may be tested on"


This war initiated by Russia against Ukraine is a war of aggression, of conquest, extermination. That has nothing to do with religious or other things. wake up!

Natural gas price today $172. Looks it will sink further to $170, as I predicted last week.

Some estimate the price will crash to $100 in spring.

Putin in trouble

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## kingQamaR

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The real Russian mobilization
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574121847641149440



So basically a large percentage of people who didn’t care what was happening in their backyard because it didn’t directly affect them are now fleeing cause now it’s their problem

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574067164901949442


Video shows the position of urkanian trenches, then shows russian artillery hitting a field at random points.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574307007850504192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574282010499190784
Mobilization going great it seems,lmao.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574268871254904833

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574338016411357184
Welcome to Ukraine!!


----------



## thetutle




----------



## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574307007850504192
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574282010499190784
> Mobilization going great it seems,lmao.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574268871254904833


Well….now he can be recruited by wagner and earn a lot more then as a mere mobilised soldier! 
4d chess player there. 

On other news, russia is a disgrace….


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574341693893058560


Viet said:


> This war initiated by Russia against Ukraine is a war of aggression, of conquest, extermination.



Anglos started the war in 2014 by orchestrating Euro Maidan coup during Sochi olympics. 







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574342635673866241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574341250244829184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574312549495242752

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574311652937400320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574311416009756672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574309706918727683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574244243945803776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574265105092681730


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574341693893058560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574342635673866241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574341250244829184


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Looks like those Iran-provided drones are wreaking havoc on Ukrainian forces in Odesa. The Ukrainian forces are constantly looking up the skies to keep eyes on those drones. Well, you keep eye on the sky constantly certainly it is going to cause issues. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574110988885889024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574359045955235840

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573682289338351617
A new group of Chechens is taking the road to the front. Ahmat force! 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573649763135889409

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573327883783008257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574379125225259010
he he


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574376336105377793

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574373911449460736

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574345851866324992

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573327883783008257
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574379125225259010
> he he
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574376336105377793
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574373911449460736



Russia don't need EU to lift sanction. Russia gets consumer goods from China. China makes better consumer goods than EU. EU can go screw themselves.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574388468884852741

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574391240883412992

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## DF41

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> In the end America will back Russia over Ukraine for the sake of profits. America betrayed South Vietnam and Ghani Afghanistan. You cannot depend on America.


In the end, and not too long from now, Murica will be absolutely irrelevant .

Few countries fear the sanctions of a toothless power on verge of bankruptcy and likely to implode into internal civil war.

US$ might be 1 yen to the dollar.

*AND MOST OF ALL, THE WORLD KNOW WORDS OF MURICA CANNOT BE TRUSTED OR RELIED ON.
THAT NOT JUST POMPEO, ALL MURICANS TELL LIES AND CHEAT AND STEAL






*

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574395139442761728

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574372777938898946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574338372620980226

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574366196115378177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574387124656291842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574381636673748992

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## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574395139442761728



That's why it's called Mutually Assured Destruction. The Kremlin should remember that there are nuclear armed nations in Europe as well.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574368050320707584
This is setting up just like the breakout from Balakliya.

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## Robin rone

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574395139442761728


if Russians used tactical nukes what America do is force all others to do more sanctions and do isolation on Russians they cant do any kinetic attack on Russia if USA directly attack Russia then its start of world war 3, do you really think after hitting Russian targets Russia will sit there and suck up their looses ?


----------



## mike2000 is back

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573321196992864258
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573305987188101120
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573270291891060738
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573257544113561602


To be honest, I believe it's actually a good thing for Europe in the long run. I never understood why European countries got so complacent relying on Russia for their critical energy needs and power(as they say complacency leads to laziness and makes people taje things for granted). I know its cheaper to get them from Russia, but we should have long also considered the fact that Russia is not western ally and has never been one, so things were bound to go south whenever there is a conflict of interets between both sides. It was silly to totally rely on Russia and make it the biggest energy supplier for European countries. 

In fact this Ukraine conflict and Russian cutting off Gas and oil supplies to the West is actually a good thing for us in the long run, short term pain for long term gain. Better suffer now and have a credible long term alternative energy supplier by diversifying our energy needs than relying on an adversary for the majority of your energy needs. Even if we have to pay abit more. Necessity is the mother of inventions indeed. It was even more silly that Germany was pushing for that north stream 2 gas pipeline from Russia( I can understand Russia pushing it through since it serves their interests, but not Germany) despite US warnings that it will only give Russia more leverage and blackmail when things hear up between both sides. Now here we are today, that's exactly what happened. Seems all that money was spent for no hood reason. Lol 
Just like relying on Russia for some space launches was a big mistake, European and US companies have learned their mistake , it won't happen again and they have already sought alternative means. It's better for both sides going forward. Russia should just be an easilly replaceable alternative(or plan B or C), not the main provider. We should keep it that way.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574383300398891009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574389056514957313


mike2000 is back said:


> To be honest, I believe it's actually a good thing for Europe in the long run. I never understood why European countries got so complacent relying on Russia for their critical energy needs and power. I know its cheaper to get them from Russia, but we should have long also considered the fact that Russia is not western ally and has never been one, so things were bound to go south whenever there is a conflict of interets between both sides. It was silly to totally rely on Russia and make it the biggest energy supplier for European countries.
> In fact this Ukraine conflict and Russian cutting off Gas and oil supplies to the West is actually a good thing for us in the long run, short term pain for long term gain. Better suffer now and have a credible long term alternative energy supplier by diversifying our energy needs than relying on an adversary for the majority of your energy needs. Even if we have to pay abit more. Necessity is the mother of inventions indeed.
> Just like relying on Russia for some space launches was a big mistake, European and US companies have learned their mistake , it won't happen again and they have already sought alternative means. It's better for both sides going forward



IMO Olaf Scholz gets voted out and Germany ditches Ukraine for Russia the way the US ditched South Vietnam for North Vietnam and ditched Ghani Afghanistan for Taliban Afghanistan. It's all about profit.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574391975704498181

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574393447011692544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574393601097875458

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574395811819044864


----------



## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> This is setting up just like the breakout from Balakliya.



If ukraine indeed has the extra reserves in kharkiv. I wonder why they are waiting before pressing the advantage. It gives the russians time to regroup.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574371124174938117
A real Army, unlike the drunks you see heading to Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573936332245803008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573935529183289344

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574366723788005376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574352378756829189

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574391240883412992


Winter coming, do they have winter clothes? Or do they sing to keep warm? It looks to me they don’t go to war they go to a picnic.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574305744563978240


Viet said:


> Winter coming, do they have winter clothes? Or do they sing to keep warm? It looks to me they don’t go to war they go to a picnic.



China supplies winter clothing.

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## Viet

Ukraine army pushing on the offensive towards Lyman to complete the encirclement.









German flak tank “Gepard” on the move towards Lyman.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ukraine army pushing on the offensive towards Lyman to complete the encirclement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German flak tank “Gepard” on the move towards Lyman.



Gepard is short range and very vulnerable to Krasnopol ground launched laser guided bombs.


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Gepard is short range and very vulnerable to Krasnopol ground launched laser guided bombs.


6 Russia aircraft were shot down just last weekend. Where was this wonder missile?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> 6 Russia aircraft were shot down just last weekend. Where was this wonder missile?



Manned jets are replaced by drones. Robots are the future of warfare.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574423071968165889


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574403779939962881
Those trucks are really old

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573936332245803008
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573935529183289344



Must feel strange to see western components being used against Ukraine despite sanctions. Best of all, these drone parts can be imported legally from anywhere in the world. Many parts of it are made in Russia under license


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574424088776409090


kingQamaR said:


> Must feel strange to see western components being used against Ukraine despite sanctions. Best of all, these drone parts can be imported legally from anywhere in the world. Many parts of it are made in Russia under license



They just buy parts cheap from China. Just about everything is made in China these days.


----------



## Shawnee



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## gambit

mike2000 is back said:


> To be honest, I believe it's actually a good thing for Europe in the long run. *I never understood why European countries got so complacent* relying on Russia for their critical energy needs and power(as they say complacency leads to laziness and makes people taje things for granted). I know its cheaper to get them from Russia, but we should have long also considered the fact that Russia is not western ally and has never been one, so things were bound to go south whenever there is a conflict of interets between both sides. It was silly to totally rely on Russia and make it the biggest energy supplier for European countries.


Going out on a limb here...

I was active duty when the Berlin Wall fell and later when the SU broke apart. In our main squadron breakroom where officers and enlisted mingle, we watched Berliners climbed on the Wall, partied, cried, sang, and some hammered away at the Wall for souvenirs of an era. I played tourist in East Berlin once and saw the difference between the two sides and I wished I was there to share in the celebration. Anyway...Just about everyone in the room cheered and some declared the Cold War over. There was a senior master named Dorr who was a second generation German emigre and he said he can retire happy. Sure, I was happy for the Germans but I was too cynical about Russia. Of everyone in the room, I was the lone dissenter.

I think the *MAIN* reason why the Euros were so willing to trust Russia is because overall, everyone was tired of the Cold War. The constant vigilance of the people from leaders all the way down to the ordinary townsfolk, the expenditure of some of the nation's finance towards defense, the nearly weekly dour news about arms reduction negotiations, and so on and on. I easily extrapolated the release of tension tenor of our breakroom to how nations must have felt, and I do not blame them one bit. With the Soviet Union, Russia was geopolitically enormous, so everyone, from Europe to Asia to the Americas, convinced themselves that a geopolitically smaller Russia must also mean a commensurate weaker power. What is happening in Europe today should make it clear that the Cold War is *NOT* over. The weapons actually multiplied from nuclear warheads to economics to now -- energy. They multiplied because the trust, and even the faith, multiplied. Now, we have to pay to consequences of that misplaced trust. You are correct about the pain that it must be suffered. Like it or not, the vigilance about Russia, and China for that matter, must return.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

gambit said:


> Going out on a limb here...
> 
> I was active duty when the Berlin Wall fell and later when the SU broke apart. In our main squadron breakroom where officers and enlisted mingle, we watched Berliners climbed on the Wall, partied, cried, sang, and some hammered away at the Wall for souvenirs of an era. I played tourist in East Berlin once and saw the difference between the two sides and I wished I was there to share in the celebration. Anyway...Just about everyone in the room cheered and some declared the Cold War over. There was a senior master named Dorr who was a second generation German emigre and he said he can retire happy. Sure, I was happy for the Germans but I was too cynical about Russia. Of everyone in the room, I was the lone dissenter.
> 
> I think the *MAIN* reason why the Euros were so willing to trust Russia is because overall, everyone was tired of the Cold War. The constant vigilance of the people from leaders all the way down to the ordinary townsfolk, the expenditure of some of the nation's finance towards defense, the nearly weekly dour news about arms reduction negotiations, and so on and on. I easily extrapolated the release of tension tenor of our breakroom to how nations must have felt, and I do not blame them one bit. With the Soviet Union, Russia was geopolitically enormous, so everyone, from Europe to Asia to the Americas, convinced themselves that a geopolitically smaller Russia must also mean a commensurate weaker power. What is happening in Europe today should make it clear that the Cold War is *NOT* over. The weapons actually multiplied from nuclear warheads to economics to now -- energy. They multiplied because the trust, and even the faith, multiplied. Now, we have to pay to consequences of that misplaced trust. You are correct about the pain that it must be suffered. Like it or not, the vigilance about Russia, and China for that matter, must return.



East Germany had better living standard than West Germany. In East Germany life was laid back and relaxed because of socialism. In Germany today life is difficult and stressful, and birth rate is low and population is aging and declining.

Take a look at the living standard of the US and China. It is not even close. The US living standard is third world compared to China where socialism is rampant.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574446738915872768
Billions more in military aid is coming to Ukraine

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## jhungary

Robin rone said:


> if Russians used tactical nukes what America do is force all others to do more sanctions and do isolation on Russians they cant do any kinetic attack on Russia if USA directly attack Russia then its start of world war 3, do you really think after hitting Russian targets Russia will sit there and suck up their looses ?


There are no other way but to response if Russia use tactical nuke, because if US /NATO did not intervene, that will basically give Russia blanch carte to either use or threaten nuke the next time they want something. Russia will say "Oh, give me Latvia or I will use nuke, and I am not bluffing" Worse yet, what if they use nuke first like they say they will do in Ukraine? Would you not react then?

If Russia use nuke in Ukraine, the most appropriate response is to take out any Russian target in Ukraine, end the war so there are no reason for nuke to fly, that's the most appropriate and direct response the US and NATO can give.

You can't allow a tactical nuke to be use an no solid response, whether or not Russia want to take it to the next level is their business, but a conventional response is warranted.



Al Mahdi said:


> In this Dunya you have to look behind the curtain of satan. All is an illusion. the finest scientists in the world say this is an HOLOGRAPHIC UNIVERSE made upon strings and Quantum particles. The will of Allah is manifest in this dunya. Our beloved Prophet Hz. Muhammad Peace be upon his soul said "If shoeless beduins build high buildings in the desert, than you know JUDGEMENT DAY is near." He said "If women are cloted but still naked than know JUDGEMENT DAY is near"


What does this have anything to do with Ukraine and Russian war? Neither of which were Islamic nor muslim majority....

If they want their girls to fight in their underwear, that's their choice.......


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574446738915872768
> Billions more in military aid is coming to Ukraine



Russia has transitioned to state of war and war economy. Even if the US spends billions every month, it's only a drop in the bucket compared to Russia's production rate. With such a low production rate, the US will lose this war just like the US lost in Vietnam and Afghanistan. The moral of the story is. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574448093763932161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574447253208670208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574432760609255424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574431783759888386

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574450285908459522

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## jhungary

Wow, Russia was fast, they had already put the newly mobilised recruit in the frontline with less than 1 week of training....









Russian conscripts with no training 'are on the frontlines in Ukraine'


Russia is using newly-conscripted men with no training to plug holes in frontline units which have been mauled in more than seven months of fighting in Ukraine, Kyiv's generals have said.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Probably the training schedule are as follow

Day 1 - How to fire a Rifle
Day 2 - How to roll up in a ball
Day 3 - How to surrender and not get shot
Day 4 - Why are you still here? You should be either surrendered or dead by now...



Al Mahdi said:


> Cant you see it? Cant you sense it? YOU are just an ILLUSION of seytan. Your name is not in the book of life with the holy lamb. Your doings (deeds) are in VAIN.


Yes, I am satan, not the dude who nuke all these people. They are saint and they should get away with their crime, right?

Exactly how old are you??

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574442634973782017

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574451573551423489

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574443148448878593


jhungary said:


> Wow, Russia was fast, they had already put the newly mobilised recruit in the frontline with less than 1 week of training....



The longer the war, the better for Russia. Next year Ukraine's population falls to 40 million (minus Crimea). Back to 1940 level. The man power disparity grows with time.









Ukraine Population (2022) - Worldometer


Population of Ukraine: current, historical, and projected population, growth rate, immigration, median age, total fertility rate (TFR), population density, urbanization, urban population, country's share of world population, and global rank. Data tables, maps, charts, and live population clock




www.worldometers.info

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## jhungary

UNCONFIRMED ; There are Telegram post saying Russia had retreated from Lyman. Ukrainian are expect to take it within the next 24 hours. 

Well, treat it with a pinch of salt as I have seen post like this since the 2nd or 3rd days of the Kharkiv Offensive.

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## PakFactor

Al Mahdi said:


> People like you vote for monsters like putin and viktor orban. So indeed you are just another seytan with your nato war mongering



@waz, can you ban this dumbass?

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## jhungary

Al Mahdi said:


> People like you vote for monsters like putin and viktor orban. So indeed you are just another seytan with your nato war mongering


lol, you are not making any sense. If I am Warmongering NATO, I wouldn't vote for neither Putin or Viktor Orban. That's the idea exactly opposite on what I stand for, it's like to tell a Republican to vote for Biden.

Dude, I am not going to talk to you anymore, this is just a serious waste of time.

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574429570849284099

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574458606313156608

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574446738915872768
> Billions more in military aid is coming to Ukraine


OMG! That is great news for Ukraine

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574367403995435008

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574454076590329858

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574367403995435008



Wagner has been “advancing” to Bakhmut since July  

Meanwhile, Russias lines are about to collapse in northern Luhansk.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Wagner has been “advancing” to Bakhmut since July
> 
> Meanwhile, Russias lines are about to collapse in northern Luhansk.



Next year when war starts the trend will shift again with Russia taking Donetsk. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. And now with state of war and war economy for every artillery round the US can make, Russia makes 10 times that many.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574462736591122432

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> Wagner has been “advancing” to Bakhmut since July
> 
> Meanwhile, Russias lines are about to collapse in northern Luhansk.


Exactly. I was just wondering when we were told Russia was about to take Bakhmut. Seems like weeks ago the pro-russians were claiming the russians were at the center of the city.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574464545006854144

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574467303584010252

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## The SC




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## PakFactor

Wood said:


> OMG! That is great news for Ukraine



Smart Americans are front-loading their SEP IRA, 401K(s), etc. So when it comes time to pay, the a$$ retards are left holding the bill.

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## SIPRA

War seems to have entered in a stalemate phase. No major gain, by either side, for quite some time.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574481756388048909


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574474604810117120




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574446165755629568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574402849664126976

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## sammuel

jhungary said:


> If they want their girls to fight in their underwear, that's their choice.......



Maybe if there where more of those running around there will be less fighting.

Make love not war,

~


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574470310874664960

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574481756388048909


Lets pretend HIMARS were used. Since none are actually voting chances of civilian casualties were close to zero.


----------



## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574391240883412992


Europeans just love it when armed asians are attacking their continent.


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## kingQamaR

Shades of Soviet’s in WW2. Untrained kids , with one rifle between four of them sent to fight Only this time they are not defending the motherland

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574470310874664960


What do these percentages refere to? Soldiers dropping by? Certainly not the population pre russians invasion. Russias just following the propaganda playbook - repeat a lie often enough and it becomes truth.
Its a freaking masquerade, and everybody knows it. But Putin went too far with this one.

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## sammuel

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574282010499190784
> Mobilization going great it seems,lmao.



Was not sure about this clip because i was wondering who leaked the arrest part.

But it was confirmed that :

Gunman detained after shooting at Russian draft office in Siberia​








Gunman detained after shooting at Russian draft office in Siberia


A gunman was detained after opening fire at a military draft office in Russia's Irkutsk region on Monday, the local governor said.




www.reuters.com





~

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574487690418044957

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## sammuel

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574467303584010252



with translation :






~

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574494662219513879
Mobilization is a complete clusterf

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497382600301858821

I still remember when posters here laughed at this Ukrainian in the first couple days of the war. 

Guy wasn’t joking, whose laughing now

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## thetutle

Robin rone said:


> if Russians used tactical nukes what America do is force all others to do more sanctions and do isolation on Russians they cant do any kinetic attack on Russia if USA directly attack Russia then its start of world war 3, do you really think after hitting Russian targets Russia will sit there and suck up their looses ?


yeah I cants seee russia having its forces obliterated in a NATO strike and taking it on the chin. It would bomb all nato bases in europe come what may.


gambit said:


> I think the *MAIN* reason why the Euros were so willing to trust Russia is because overall, everyone was tired of the Cold War.


europe was hoping russia would become one of them, to use against muslims and china later. They didnt predict Russias imperial ambitions.


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## Dalit

LOL I was reading a fun comment in a Dutch news section. The article was explaining how the Dutch government is going to give more weapons to Ukraine and apply more sanctions against Russia. One of the commentators said the most sanctioned group are the people in European capitals who are paying the price at the gas station and at home with gas/electricity bills.

The European citizens have really started feeling the pinch now since Russia turned off the tap. The government is already pleading to the people to conserve energy at homes despite a harsh winter.



Wood said:


> OMG! That is great news for Ukraine



What difference will these billions make? I predict that Ukraine is only able to keep it at a stalemate at best. That too with heavy economic and military support from the US/NATO.

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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> In the end, and not too long from now, Murica will be absolutely irrelevant .
> 
> Few countries fear the sanctions of a toothless power on verge of bankruptcy and likely to implode into internal civil war.
> 
> US$ might be 1 yen to the dollar.
> 
> *AND MOST OF ALL, THE WORLD KNOW WORDS OF MURICA CANNOT BE TRUSTED OR RELIED ON.
> THAT NOT JUST POMPEO, ALL MURICANS TELL LIES AND CHEAT AND STEAL
> 
> 
> View attachment 882700
> *


You’re a moron

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> If Russia use nuke in Ukraine, the most appropriate response is to take out any Russian target in Ukraine, end the war so there are no reason for nuke to fly, that's the most appropriate and direct response the US and NATO can give.



I would say, it would be just a nod "it's ok" to Moscow, since they don't really lose anything personal there.

You Americans are used to the idea of a shared agency, that rulers care for fates of their underlings, let alone soldiers.

I would say, anywhere outside of American culture, few elites will ever care more about underlings than, say losing their Rolce & Royce, or their luxury apartment.

There been no point in this war when Putin was more visibly upset & discombobulated than when his yacht was seized in Italy.

Also, he traded 6 super valuable UA commanders + 250 soldiers just for his personal moneyman.

As a Chinese, I have no ability to interpret him as Americans do, but I believe, where you see some high matters like him trying to repay historical injustices, spheres of influence, etc, I see just him doing ultra-commercial mindset things like risk/reward measuring, hedging his bets, going for risk free moves, moving out of assets soon to be illiquid.

Not just nuke, but almost everything else is a bluff from the beginning addressed exclusively at USA, because nobody else, even Europeans, would've understood it, let alone believed in it.

His interest now is to get out of Ukraine, while recouping at least some losses of reputation, and long term money. This is why he keeps doubling his bets, in hopes that one relatively big victory can cover all his previous losses, and I mean losses to him personally — reputational, financial, social, material.

Putin only went for this war because he was 99% sure that he would lose exactly nothing personally even if his army gets smashed. The West has done almost everything in its power possible to render Ukraine as an irresistible risk free adventure with enormous reward hanging in front of him.

Even if NATO will waltz into Ukraine now, and turn every russian conscripts to the last one into kebab, Putin & Co. will still be able spend the rest of their days living in golden palaces in Moscow, surrounded by hordes of likeminded court nobles, like Kims do.

Nuking Moscow would be the most appropriate.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> East Germany had better living standard than West Germany. In East Germany life was laid back and relaxed because of socialism. In Germany today life is difficult and stressful, and birth rate is low and population is aging and declining.
> 
> Take a look at the living standard of the US and China. It is not even close. The US living standard is third world compared to China where socialism is rampant.


Moron alert 🚨

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> LOL I was reading a fun comment in a Dutch news section. The article was explaining how the Dutch government is going to give more weapons to Ukraine and apply more sanctions against Russia. One of the commentators said the most sanctioned group are the people in European capitals who are paying the price at the gas station and at home with gas/electricity bills.
> 
> The European citizens have really started feeling the pinch now since Russia turned off the tap. The government is already pleading to the people to conserve energy at homes despite a harsh winter.
> 
> 
> 
> What difference will these billions make? I predict that Ukraine is only able to keep it ar a stalemate at best. That too with heavy economic and military support from the US/NATO.


Inflation and recession was ongoing anyway. The war in Ukraine just fast forwarded it.


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574027504326791168

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## thetutle

Dalit said:


> LOL I was reading a fun comment in a Dutch news section. The article was explaining how the Dutch government is going to give more weapons to Ukraine and apply more sanctions against Russia. One of the commentators said the most sanctioned group are the people in European capitals who are paying the price at the gas station and at home with gas/electricity bills.
> 
> The European citizens have really started feeling the pinch now since Russia turned off the tap. The government is already pleading to the people to conserve energy at homes despite a harsh winter.


your government can make it cheaper for you by ditching some these unless green policies that wont solve the imagined global warming. (I just love it when global warming people are protesting that its too expensive to heat their homes. - use the global warming to heat your home fool)


Dalit said:


> What difference will these billions make? I predict that Ukraine is only able to keep it ar a stalemate at best. That too with heavy economic and military support from the US/NATO.


they will result in the destruction of the russian army in ukraine, thats all.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574468385622167563


kingQamaR said:


> Shades of Soviet’s in WW2. Untrained kids , with one rifle between four of them sent to fight Only this time they are not defending the motherland



Sure they are. Russians consider Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson as Russian cities. To Russians, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson are as Russian as Moscow, Saint Petersburg.



RoadAmerica said:


> Moron alert 🚨



China population 1.4 billion. US population 300 million. It is American hardship that makes US birth rate so low. You must accept that fact, even if you are an American.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574479536669921280

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## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574479536669921280



what is Putin going to buy with Indian rupees? A call center?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dbc said:


> what is Putin going to buy with Indian rupees? A call center?



Russia has more trees than any other country. Trees are the natural resource for printing money. Therefore, Russia has more money than any other country. 









Will Russia’s Forests Be an Asset or an Obstacle in Climate Fight?


New research indicating Russia’s vast forests store more carbon than previously estimated would seem like good news. But scientists are concerned Russia will count this carbon uptake as an offset in its climate commitments, which would allow its emissions to continue unchecked.




e360.yale.edu


----------



## dbc

Russia's largest steel plant reduced to ruble.









Huge fire at Russian steel plant owned by Putin ally Abramovich—Video


Videos posted by Novokuznetsk residents showed clouds of smoke and a bright glow in the area where the steel plant is located.




www.newsweek.com





more bad news from Russia.

At least 17 people were killed, including 11 children, when a gunman wearing a T-shirt with a red swastika opened fire on Monday in a school in the central Russian city of Izhevsk, Russia’s Investigative Committee reported. The gunman, reportedly armed with two weapons, also killed himself.





__





Loading…






www.washingtonpost.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

dbc said:


> what is Putin going to buy with Indian rupees? A call center?




It is a trade between Russia an India where both countries are using their own currencies. They're basically bypassing the US Dollar and Euro. Now, you can laugh all you want, but this is how the multipolar world will work.

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## Paul2

This made my day: https://****/horevica/6445 (telegram)


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574476761462628352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574129219264806913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574129225858179079

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## Paul2

I am very convinced now that UA GHQ is intentionally keeping Kherson at low boil, to stress russian logistics, command bandwidth, and provoke russians into wasting reinforcements on it.

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## jhungary

sammuel said:


> Maybe if there where more of those running around there will be less fighting.
> 
> Make love not war,
> 
> ~


Well, I for one will probably reenlist.....

But well, what the hey....

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## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It is a trade between Russia an India where both countries are using their own currencies. They're basically bypassing the US Dollar and Euro. Now, you can laugh all you want, but this is how the multipolar world will work.



Russia holding a lot of volatile currency with limited global appeal isn't smart it's desperate.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> yeah I cants seee russia having its forces obliterated in a NATO strike and taking it on the chin. It would bomb all nato bases in europe come what may.


lol with what?? There is a limit for Russian cruise missile, they would have to launch within 200km from the origin, if NATO took Ukraine, Russia can only launch them either in Kaliningrad or if Belarus is game (which I highly doubt) from Belarus soil, otherwise it will not reach Europe. 

Air launch cruise or hypersonic missile will be intercepted by NATO air force, I don't think anyone will disagree NATO would have complete air dominance of the air over RuAF in Europe. 

And finally, if Russia do attack Europe via Kaliningrad, it will start WW3. Which mean invasion of Russian territories (most likely Kaliningrad) or use nuclear weapons is not off the table, the matrix is different than losing its force in Ukraine. Because you are now risking losing a chunk in Russia. 

So again, it goes back to whether or not Russia wants to start World War 3 over Ukraine. Militarily, it does not worth starting WW3 over Ukraine for Russia.


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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Cost benefit analysis. Prop powered drones are dirt cheap. They can deplete much more expensive hardware like MANPADS. Especially considering Russia set up a number of factories manufacturing dozens of these a day.


MANPADS are sunk cost with a half-life of a few years, i.e. their battery packs cannot last indefinitely. With the 70+ Russian jets shot down, the economic balance is well on side of stingers: several 100 can be wasted away because of the high return on investment for shooting down the 100x price jets

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574468385622167563
> 
> 
> Sure they are. Russians consider Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson as Russian cities. To Russians, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson are as Russian as Moscow, Saint Petersburg
> 
> 
> China population 1.4 billion. US population 300 million. It is American hardship that makes US birth rate so low. You must accept that fact, even if you are an American.



Let me fix that 
🚨 this is the first forever moron 🚨

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> MANPADS are sunk cost with a half-life of a few years, i.e. their battery packs cannot last indefinitely. With the 70+ Russian jets shot down, the economic balance is well on side of stingers: several 100 can be wasted away because of the high return on investment for shooting down the 100x price jets



Manned jets are replaced by drones. Drones are cheaper than MANPADS. Robots are the future of warfare.


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## aviator_fan

dbc said:


> Russia holding a lot of volatile currency with limited global appeal isn't smart it's desperate.


Almost as desperate as wielding a nuclear threat as a near superpower/former superpower while taking on an adversary 1/5th its size. Heck even non-global power entities like India, Pakistan, North Korea can do that. And exchanging money for barter (which is what it means to trade in its own currencies).

They can't buy sh*((* with India Rupees unless they need to buy Indian call center agents from Wipro to provide assitance to mobilize recruit minorities

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I would say, it would be just a nod "it's ok" to Moscow, since they don't really lose anything personal there.
> 
> You Americans are used to the idea of a shared agency, that rulers care for fates of their underlings, let alone soldiers.
> 
> I would say, anywhere outside of American culture, few elites will ever care more about underlings than, say losing their Rolce & Royce, or their luxury apartment.
> 
> There been no point in this war when Putin was more visibly upset & discombobulated than when his yacht was seized in Italy.
> 
> Also, he traded 6 super valuable UA commanders + 250 soldiers just for his personal moneyman.
> 
> As a Chinese, I have no ability to interpret him as Americans do, but I believe, where you see some high matters like him trying to repay historical injustices, spheres of influence, etc, I see just him doing ultra-commercial mindset things like risk/reward measuring, hedging his bets, going for risk free moves, moving out of assets soon to be illiquid.
> 
> Not just nuke, but almost everything else is a bluff from the beginning addressed exclusively at USA, because nobody else, even Europeans, would've understood it, let alone believed in it.
> 
> His interest now is to get out of Ukraine, while recouping at least some losses of reputation, and long term money. This is why he keeps doubling his bets, in hopes that one relatively big victory can cover all his previous losses, and I mean losses to him personally — reputational, financial, social, material.
> 
> Putin only went for this war because he was 99% sure that he would lose exactly nothing personally even if his army gets smashed. The West has done almost everything in its power possible to render Ukraine as an irresistible risk free adventure with enormous reward hanging in front of him.
> 
> Even if NATO will waltz into Ukraine now, and turn every russian conscripts to the last one into kebab, Putin & Co. will still be able spend the rest of their days living in golden palaces in Moscow, surrounded by hordes of likeminded court nobles, like Kims do.
> 
> Nuking Moscow would be the most appropriate.


Well, it's the different between MADMAN and MAD GOVERNMENT. 

Right now, Russia is a latter because it has a madman in charge, the problem for the west is not about to take care of 1 person, I mean whatever or whoever Putin is does not concern the West, the only thing concerns the west is that he is in charge of Russia. Which mean all western response is going to targeting this to decouple Putin with Russia. And to do that, you don't take away his money, you take away his army, the source of his power, because once his army is taken away, it will be like a Don without his Lieutenant, he is powerless. Then Russian themselves will sort him out once he is out of power. 

There is an old saying "Dictator usually don't have a good Retirment plan" The goal of the west is to put this dictator to retirement, what his "retirement plan" was does not concern the west, that's more for his own people.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Manned jets are replaced by drones. Drones are cheaper than MANPADS. Robots are the future of warfare.


Robots like super hypersonic weapons and invincibility of Russians were supposed to be running over Kiev in 3 days. Since you are watching movies, look at Airwolf too. Super hyper helicopters like the KA-52 being blown out of the sky

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574487554627231744

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## PakFactor

dbc said:


> what is Putin going to buy with Indian rupees? A call center?



You owe me a cappuccino after I spilled mines laughing. 🤣

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Robots like super hypersonic weapons and invincibility of Russians were supposed to be running over Kiev in 3 days. Since you are watching movies, look at Airwolf too. Super hyper helicopters like the KA-52 being blown out of the sky



1 Putin day = 1,000 commoner years. So 3 Putin days = 3,000 commoner years. So the war goes on after you and I died from old age.

Russian tank engages a Ukrainian BMP. Warning. Graphic.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574489929681289217

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Over time Russia's man power advantage over Ukraine increases. 10 years from now Russia population 150 million compared to Ukraine's 20 million. It becomes more and more difficult for Ukraine to fight. In the end America will back Russia over Ukraine for the sake of profits. America betrayed South Vietnam and Ghani Afghanistan. You cannot depend on America.


May be you have been too busy on twitter reposting Odessa shots to realize that in a few short days a few 100 thousand Russian men have left. Its time for you to leave the keyboard and do your part to deliver the manpower advantage you dream about but is going further and further away.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574336727195344897


aviator_fan said:


> May be you have been too busy on twitter reposting Odessa shots to realize that in a few short days a few 100 thousand Russian men have left. Its time for you to leave the keyboard and do your part to deliver the manpower advantage you dream about but is going further and further away.



Only the cowards leave. Likewise, millions of Ukrainians cowards fled Ukraine since February. The remaining people are the war mongers. It's going to get ugly next year.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> because once his army is taken away, it will be like a Don without his Lieutenant, he is powerless.



Russian 3 letter services are more numerous, better trained, and equipped than the army, and, most importantly, way better paid, just like in China.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574507012129316864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574508828426895361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574518898623406080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574515493779558400


----------



## aviator_fan

DF41 said:


> In the end, and not too long from now, Murica will be absolutely irrelevant .
> 
> Few countries fear the sanctions of a toothless power on verge of bankruptcy and likely to implode into internal civil war.
> 
> US$ might be 1 yen to the dollar.
> 
> *AND MOST OF ALL, THE WORLD KNOW WORDS OF MURICA CANNOT BE TRUSTED OR RELIED ON.
> THAT NOT JUST POMPEO, ALL MURICANS TELL LIES AND CHEAT AND STEAL
> 
> 
> View attachment 882700
> *


Reading Cinderalla books again? All empires eventually collapse as Russia is going through and I know it is paining you. As for EU , at some point its time will come but it won't be in our lives. Till then pls post some more cartoons so you can feel better



Viet said:


> Winter coming, do they have winter clothes? Or do they sing to keep warm? It looks to me they don’t go to war they go to a picnic.


Winter is going to be used to train these guys. If Russians could fight in winter and could do it better, they would have done so last November. Not waited till February. This is how long it will take to get these non troops ready

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Night time buzz bomb attack. MANPADS no use because don't have thermal.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574542755086454797


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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China population 1.4 billion. US population 300 million. It is American hardship that makes US birth rate so low. You must accept that fact, even if you are an American.


US has millions migrating in every year. Who goes to China , nobody. And see how many Chinatowns around the world (evidently, like the Russians, Chinese like to leave China too).

US saved China's *** from Japan in 1940s or part of China would still be occupied land by Japan whose population was even less than US.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> US has millions migrating in every year. Who goes to China , nobody. And see how many Chinatowns around the world (evidently, like the Russians, Chinese like to leave China too).
> 
> US saved China's *** from Japan in 1940s or part of China would still be occupied land by Japan whose population was even less than US.



While it is true the US has millions of illegal immigrants every year, but the white population is diluted. The US used to be 90% white, now it is only 50% white. Go to any major city in the US and whites are clear minority. This dilutes American identity. I know what a Chinese is. I know what a Russian is. I don't know what an American is. The US has no official language, no cultural identity. In the long run, the US weakens while China, Russia strengthen.

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## aviator_fan

Al Mahdi said:


> In this Dunya you have to look behind the curtain of satan. All is an illusion. the finest scientists in the world say this is an HOLOGRAPHIC UNIVERSE made upon strings and Quantum particles. The will of Allah is manifest in this dunya. Our beloved Prophet Hz. Muhammad Peace be upon his soul said "If shoeless beduins build high buildings in the desert, than you know JUDGEMENT DAY is near." He said "If women are cloted but still naked than know JUDGEMENT DAY is near"


Dude get off your spiritual horse. It will be here but not because you have some unique insight into when. Muslim rulers have had harems full of women like this for 100s of years and this prediction didn't materialize. It will happen but not because of some great conclusion you have drawn. Sorry to burst your bubble.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has transitioned to state of war and war economy. Even if the US spends billions every month, it's only a drop in the bucket compared to Russia's production rate. With such a low production rate, the US will lose this war just like the US lost in Vietnam and Afghanistan. The moral of the story is. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.


This sounds like typical communist thought of collective farming and industry that starved the communists for dozens of years.
1. Russia production rate: import from North Korea and Iran
2. Russia war economy: trade in rupees to get Indian outsourced services that nobody wants.

I really think you are Putin in disguise on this forum and its a privilege to have you joined it. Only he would have such a skewed stupid perspective of his country to humilate and decline a perfectly working near superpower to a humiliation of one.



Viet said:


> 6 Russia aircraft were shot down just last weekend. Where was this wonder missile?


They are waiting for the real war, not this one to bring those out. Its like your wife is getting slapped by a stranger outside in the garden but you keep your knife handy for when the guy comes punches you.

THats why the missiles are being held in reserve....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574098904525799428

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574506570452697088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574529735853363200

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574460037862658048

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574532845875343360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574527520593936385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574539291505709057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574435024501358594

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574427827633618945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574528871977713664

Reactions: Love Love:

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574444131283509248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574443148448878593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574424088776409090

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574427827633618945
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574528871977713664


It's a fake video

First of all, you can see the "Z" tank was travelling down the road toward the buildup area, unless you are claiming Ukrainian using Z tank without taking that mark off, it's quite obvious it was a Russian Assault. Not an Ukrainian Assault. 

On the other hand, the landscape between the outside shot and the Ukrainian running around are different. The outside shot is vegetated, but the Ukrainian running around close up, you can see the landscape is barren and scorched. Those are shot in two different places. Most likely two different time.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Israel has not threatened Iran with nuclear attacks.


actually they did , it about 8 years ago , it came out of olmert mouth in anger that they use nuke against iran



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Trying to leave without a good cause will have consequences.


assassinations and sabotage are act of war and a very good reason if we decide t leave

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## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It is a trade between Russia an India where both countries are using their own currencies. They're basically bypassing the US Dollar and Euro. Now, you can laugh all you want, but this is how the multipolar world will work.



they aren't, they're staying neutral as much as poss to get cheap fuel, if that wasn't available or runs out then they would be no longer be interested in them until they could provide sommat else of interest... (not military hardware or brains though)...


----------



## Viet

aviator_fan said:


> Dude get off your spiritual horse. It will be here but not because you have some unique insight into when. Muslim rulers have had harems full of women like this for 100s of years and this prediction didn't materialize. It will happen but not because of some great conclusion you have drawn. Sorry to burst your bubble.
> 
> 
> This sounds like typical communist thought of collective farming and industry that starved the communists for dozens of years.
> 1. Russia production rate: import from North Korea and Iran
> 2. Russia war economy: trade in rupees to get Indian outsourced services that nobody wants.
> 
> I really think you are Putin in disguise on this forum and its a privilege to have you joined it. Only he would have such a skewed stupid perspective of his country to humilate and decline a perfectly working near superpower to a humiliation of one.
> 
> 
> They are waiting for the real war, not this one to bring those out. Its like your wife is getting slapped by a stranger outside in the garden but you keep your knife handy for when the guy comes punches you.
> 
> THats why the missiles are being held in reserve....


I don’t think Russia military has much left in reserves. They stop all arms exports because they need all the stuffs for the campaign in Ukraine, even 70y old weapons, even T90S tanks that were destined for India and Algeria.
Putin is like a rat that is pushed into a corner with no way out.
He is dangerous. He will go all-in. General mobilization is just one step away. After that is nuke the option left on the table. The NATO and Ukraine must prepare scenarios in case Putin resorts to nuclear weapons.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Another russian made helmet. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574365899104010240

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574432385533460481

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## TNT

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has more trees than any other country. Trees are the natural resource for printing money. Therefore, Russia has more money than any other country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will Russia’s Forests Be an Asset or an Obstacle in Climate Fight?
> 
> 
> New research indicating Russia’s vast forests store more carbon than previously estimated would seem like good news. But scientists are concerned Russia will count this carbon uptake as an offset in its climate commitments, which would allow its emissions to continue unchecked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> e360.yale.edu



Someone ban this moron for good.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> That's what I had been telling you natards, respect the boundary. Don't push someone to a corner. NATO pushed Russia into a corner and they won't and can't lose this war. The worst outcome is nuclear. Do you think this is funny anymore? Oooo hahaha, the Russians are losing, hahhaha, HIMARS, hahaha, Bayrakthar, hahaha, M777. I am Chinese and I don't want nukes flying OK. I tried my best to drill into the thick skulls of cheerleaders here, you don't want Russia to LOSE, you want them to agree on a settlement. Divide Ukraine into 2 or just did what they asked in the first fcking place, a neutrality pact and noore expansion of NATO.


For a chinese to say "respect boundary" there is some god tiered level of irony here.

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> For a chinese to say "respect boundary" there is some god tiered level of irony here.


Yup, did we not respect boundaries? Unless it's disputed territory, China has always respected boundaries.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The real invasion forces

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574136666184646657


Han Patriot said:


> Yup, did we not respect boundaries? Unless it's disputed territory, China has always respected boundaries.


If you sign UNCLOS you do not have a disputed territory in the SCS. Ask the vietnamese members here & philippines what they think about chinese respecting their country boundaries, 

Also china is in violation of international ruling. See why nobody likes your country and starting to arming themselves?

Kinda like Ukraine & Russia

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## Goenitz

jhungary said:


> It's a fake video
> 
> First of all, you can see the "Z" tank was travelling down the road toward the buildup area, unless you are claiming Ukrainian using Z tank without taking that mark off, it's quite obvious it was a Russian Assault. Not an Ukrainian Assault.
> 
> On the other hand, the landscape between the outside shot and the Ukrainian running around are different. The outside shot is vegetated, but the Ukrainian running around close up, you can see the landscape is barren and scorched. Those are shot in two different places. Most likely two different time.


Bro.. are you still investigating old murder cases? I hope you have solved one.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Another day in the insane asylum

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574491958101393411


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 1 Putin day = 1,000 commoner years. So 3 Putin days = 3,000 commoner years. So the war goes on after you and I died from old age.
> 
> Russian tank engages a Ukrainian BMP. Warning. Graphic.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574489929681289217

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## jhungary

Goenitz said:


> Bro.. are you still investigating old murder cases? I hope you have solved one.


I no longer work for NSW Police

But we did crack 6 cold cases while I was there, 2 of them murder. 

We solved a Sydney School girl murder back in 1972 and Michelle Bright murder in 1999

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## Reashot Xigwin

There's a knock, knock joke somewhere. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574644546260336641


----------



## patero

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Another day in the insane asylum
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574491958101393411


Fascinating. Solovyov seems to be suggesting that sombody has intentionally undermined the mobilization by altering the conscription criteria, Simonyan seems to be leaning more towards bureaucratic incompetence. Probably a combination of the two.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russians leaving their wounded to die. TBF they have better chance of surviving as a Ukrainian POW. Still messed up though. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574473651478532096

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574660973536894979

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574662499080642560

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574488787400507416
LMAO,wait till civilians with no military exepriance and 1 day training will arrive on the frontline,it's going to be a total massacre.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574646904390144004

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574653538038386688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574632448461533184

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## Reashot Xigwin

Stay classy Russia.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574491564583182336

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574193621598752768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574658890662260738

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> That's what I had been telling you natards, respect the boundary. Don't push someone to a corner. NATO pushed Russia into a corner and they won't and can't lose this war. The worst outcome is nuclear. Do you think this is funny anymore? Oooo hahaha, the Russians are losing, hahhaha, HIMARS, hahaha, Bayrakthar, hahaha, M777. I am Chinese and I don't want nukes flying OK. I tried my best to drill into the thick skulls of cheerleaders here, you don't want Russia to LOSE, you want them to agree on a settlement. Divide Ukraine into 2 or just did what they asked in the first fcking place, a neutrality pact and no more expansion of NATO. US is trying to maintain a unipolar world and this is dangerous.


Ah you think China would survive if coming to a nuclear exchange between NATO and Russia?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574688839662292992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574681050575679488

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## sammuel

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574372777938898946



I find filming of POW's disturbing , no matter which side does it.

It shames not only the prisoner , but us as human beings.

~



New development :









Ukrainian military reportedly entered Pisky-Radkivski village in Kharkiv region Kharkiv - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Ukrainian military reportedly entered Pisky-Radkivski village in Kharkiv region. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests...




liveuamap.com





~


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574694164045799424

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574606905363898387

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574606919649882112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574606932123521024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574606949206958094

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574606957620731905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574606963794747408


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574606978026209280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607001484550144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607018597359616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607026260701184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607041854939138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607049094307859

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607054752423945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607066009935891

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607081113624582

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607111316656128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607120867041282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607149799337984

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## Ali_Baba

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Another day in the insane asylum
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574491958101393411



At least they have started calling it was it is - a WAR !!!!

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> MEDIA=twitter]1574606978026209280[/MEDIA]
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607001484550144
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607018597359616
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607026260701184
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607041854939138
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574607049094307859




The Pentagon is replacing the 126 M777s and 16 HIMARS sent to Ukraine with an additional 100 HIMARS.

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## Reashot Xigwin

F-22Raptor said:


> The Pentagon is replacing the 126 M777s and 16 HIMARS sent to Ukraine with an additional 100 HIMARS.


Welp the Rusky are boned. I just hope I can see their charred remains in 4k. They should at least do that much.

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russians leaving their wounded to die. TBF they have better chance of surviving as a Ukrainian POW. Still messed up though.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574473651478532096


Many Russian mil blogger said Russian unit had run out of frontline medical supplies back in June, same as Ukraine, the only different is, the West is stocking these supplies, but Russia don't have anyone to fill the gap, rumour has it even China refused to send emergency medicine like insulin or adrenaline to Russia.

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Many Russian mil blogger said Russian unit had run out of frontline medical supplies, same as Ukraine, the only different is, the West is stocking these supplies, but Russia don't have anyone to fill the gap, rumour has it even China refused to send emergency medicine like insulin or adrenaline to Russia.


I suspect as much when russian frontline medics were told to ask their girlfriend for tampons. Also begging the chinese for battlefield meds. Don't they have India on their shortlist?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574726839729147905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574726527329222657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574724081798332416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574706559267246080

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## jhungary

Serious land Ukraine retaken on the 25th and 26th 

Confirmed with Geolocated Data
-Nove (19km North of Lyman)
-Karpivka (20km NW of Lyman)
-Horobivka (10Km NE of Kupiansk)

Unconfirmed
-Drobysheve (8km NW of Lyman)
-Shandryholove (12km NW of Lyman)



Reashot Xigwin said:


> I suspect as much when russian frontline medics were told to ask their girlfriend for tampons. Also begging the chinese for battlefield meds. Don't they have India on their shortlist?


That's always bad sign if your medic start going to beg for stuff. 

Don't know, but Russia did not ask India for anything since the war, they asked just about everybody not India. Maybe they know India won't play ball? I don't know

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## One_Nation

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I suspect as much when russian frontline medics were told to ask their girlfriend for tampons. Also begging the chinese for battlefield meds. Don't they have India on their shortlist?


Indian has betrayed Russia as they found a new backer i.e. USA.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574630091413508101


F-22Raptor said:


> The Pentagon is replacing the 126 M777s and 16 HIMARS sent to Ukraine with an additional 100 HIMARS.



The US sends 100 HIMARS. Russia manufactures 1000 Tornado-S. Out numbered 10 to 1.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574646757845356547

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## F-22Raptor

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Welp the Rusky are boned. I just hope I can see their charred remains in 4k. They should at least do that much.



It’s just being replaced in US inventory, not actually going to Ukraine.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Welp the Rusky are boned. I just hope I can see their charred remains in 4k. They should at least do that much.



@waz @The Eagle 

Cheering deaths and mocking soldiers is against forum rules.

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Serious land Ukraine retaken on the 25th and 26th
> 
> Confirmed with Geolocated Data
> -Nove (19km North of Lyman)
> -Karpivka (20km NW of Lyman)
> -Horobivka (10Km NE of Kupiansk)
> 
> Unconfirmed
> -Drobysheve (8km NW of Lyman)
> -Shandryholove (12km NW of Lyman)
> 
> 
> That's always bad sign if your medic start going to beg for stuff.
> 
> Don't know, but Russia did not ask India for anything since the war, they asked just about everybody not India. Maybe they know India won't play ball? I don't know


From my experience you can get anything from under the table if you willing to go through the hassle. If Russia can't even get their medic the supply needed especially from friendly countries. Then they would better off surrender on masse. They can't blame this on poor prep. This is just unnecessary cruelty against their own men. 

Hitler at least gives his soldier meth (pervitin). 



One_Nation said:


> Indian has betrayed Russia as they found a new backer i.e. USA.


Yet they still supports Russia financially and diplomatically.,, India sits are complicated their armed forces hardwares are pretty much 90% russian. It will take couple o decades before India drop Russia completely.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574678686925742082

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russia continue making more enemy as they go

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574606296652947477


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia continue making more enemy as they go
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574606296652947477



Japan has always been Russia enemy because of Kuril dispute.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Japan has always been Russia enemy because of Kuril dispute.


I agree it's time for Japan to take back the entire islands. /srs

I like it. I hope there's peoples inside

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574291477080854528

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574745587525816325


Reashot Xigwin said:


> I agree it's time for Japan to take back the entire islands. /srs
> 
> I like it. I hope there's peoples inside
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574291477080854528



China has something to say about that. China is rival of Japan. If Japan invade Kurils then China invade Japan. In fact, back in the 90s China torpedoed Russia's plan to sell Kurils to Japan in exchange for Japanese investment in the Russian far east. China said if Russia does that then China will not invest in the Russian far east. So, Russia didn't dare to sell Kurils to Japan.


----------



## PakAlp

Russia is loosing territory fast.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574761349690888193

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## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574750260743880710

Suez canal
Qatar WC
Etc

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## dbc

Nord Stream 1 and 2 kaputski









Nord Stream: Ukraine accuses Russia of pipeline terror attack


The allegation comes after both Nord Stream undersea gas pipelines sprang a leak on Monday.



www.bbc.com

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## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574750302284050432
That is a huge coincidence then

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## dbc

American CPUs found in Iran-made kamikaze drones


ECONOMICHNA PRAVDA - MONDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2022, 14:53 Iran-made Shahed-131 kamikaze drones contain processors manufactured by Texas Instruments, the U.S. company. This is stated in the information posted by the Department of Strategic Communications of the Office of the Commander-in-Chief of the...




finance.yahoo.com

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574718255930830850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574743068464812033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574714729360424960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574724697828229121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574749168803123202

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574765978893914112
Yikes

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574702622765891586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574760471990771713

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> As I said, if the US attacks only Russia, then China will attack the US.
> Why would the US wait until the Chinese strike, if that is 100% guaranteed?
> If your last prediction is true, why would not China threaten Russia against using nuclear arms?
> 
> 
> Trying to lie about history when everyone present experienced the event is kinda lame…
> 
> 
> 
> It is yet to be confirmed that Israel has nuclear arms.
> I guess you have proof that France transferred nuclear weapons technology to Israel - not.
> Things that happened (if it happened) 50 years ago can hardly be used as a reason to leave now. The fact that Israel in that case had nuclear arms for 50 years is proof enough,
> Possession by Israel of nuclear arms is not reason to leave.
> Israel has not threatened Iran with nuclear attacks.
> Trying to leave without a good cause will have consequences.
> So just hot air…


Turkey should also join the war and fight for its territory?
Ottoman Ukraine​From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Jump to navigationJump to search

GovernmentOttoman Ukraine
Ханська Україна (Ukrainian)1667–1686Common languagesUkrainianReligion
Islam
Orthodox Church of UkraineDemonym(s)UkrainianBeylerbey, Pasha, Agha, Ataman History • Truce of Andrusovo1667• Treaty of Perpetual Peace (1686)1686Today part ofUkraine



1686 map of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth during the War of the Holy League. To the southeast of the Commonwealth is the realm of the Ottoman Empire in Ukraine (Ottoman Ukraine) that included cities like Bratslav, Kamianets-Podilskyi and Terebovlia and river border over Dnieper with Muscovy
*Ottoman Ukraine* (Ukrainian: Османська Україна), *Khan Ukraine* (Ukrainian: Ханська Україна, Romanian: _Ucraina Hanului_), *Hanshchyna* (Ukrainian: Ганьщина)[1] is a historical term for right-bank Ukraine (as well as the southern regions of the Kiev Voivodeship) also known after its Turkic name _Yedisan_. The first mentioned records are traced to 1737 when the Russian secret agent Lupul was urging to attack Ottoman Ukraine.
Contents​
1History
2Sanjak-beys
3See also
4References
5Sources
History[edit]​Officially, the southern, coastal edge of territory had been occupied by the Crimean Khanate since the 1520s in order to enable the slave raidings. The territory appeared as a consequence of the 1667 Truce of Andrusovo, which divided the Cossack Hetmanate, without consideration of the local population between the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Tsardom of Russia. Since 1669, the Ottoman authorities granted protectorate to the Cossack statehood west of the Dnieper and designated it into a separate sanjak which was headed by Cossack Hetman Petro Doroshenko. It was confirmed by the Treaty of Buchach in 1672.
The territory was bordered to its west by Podolia Eyalet and its south by Silistra Eyalet. With the help of Petro Doroshenko, the Ottomans were able to occupy Podilia and established its province in 1672. In 1676 the new King of Poland, Jan III Sobieski, managed to recover some of the lost territories of Ukraine and stopped paying a tribute after signing the Truce of Zhuravno. Also in 1676, Ivan Samoylovych, along with the boyar Grigory Romodanovsky, led a successful campaign against Doroshenko forcing him to surrender and occupied the Cossack capital, Chyhyryn. Between 1677 and 1678 a powerful army of Ibrahim Pasha fought over the control of Chyhyryn (see Russo-Turkish War (1676–81)). Eventually, the army of the Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa Pasha was successful in taking control over Chyhyryn, in 1678. The city of Nemyriv became the Hetman residence between the 1670s and 1699.
After the 1681 Treaty of Bakhchisarai, Ottoman Ukraine came under the government of Moldavia by Hospodar George Ducas.
In 1685, Polish king John III Sobieski revived some Cossack freedoms in right-bank Ukraine and signed the Eternal Peace Treaty of 1686, with Russia securing an alliance against the Ottoman Empire.









Ottoman Ukraine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574724065608323072

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## sammuel

jhungary said:


> Serious land Ukraine retaken on the 25th and 26th
> 
> Confirmed with Geolocated Data
> -Nove (19km North of Lyman)
> -Karpivka (20km NW of Lyman)
> -Horobivka (10Km NE of Kupiansk)
> 
> Unconfirmed
> -Drobysheve (8km NW of Lyman)
> -Shandryholove (12km NW of Lyman)



last 24 hours :​
Ukrainian military have liberated Kupiansk-Vuzlovyi town on the east bank of Oskil river, - head of regional military-civilian administration :









Ukrainian military have liberated Kupiansk-Vuzlovyi town on the east bank of Oskil river, - head of regional military-civilian administration Kupiansk-Vuzlovyi - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Ukrainian military have liberated Kupiansk-Vuzlovyi town on the east bank of Oskil river, - head of regional military-civilian administration. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important...




liveuamap.com






Ukrainian military reportedly entered Pisky-Radkivski village in Kharkiv region :









Ukrainian military reportedly entered Pisky-Radkivski village in Kharkiv region Kharkiv - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Ukrainian military reportedly entered Pisky-Radkivski village in Kharkiv region. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests...




liveuamap.com






Ukrainian military in liberated Ridkodub village :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574728163854516225
~

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## dbc

dbc said:


> Nord Stream 1 and 2 kaputski
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nord Stream: Ukraine accuses Russia of pipeline terror attack
> 
> 
> The allegation comes after both Nord Stream undersea gas pipelines sprang a leak on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



time to convert the Power of Siberia (POS) pipeline to piece of $hit (POS) next.

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## gambit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russians leaving their wounded to die. TBF they have better chance of surviving as a Ukrainian POW. Still messed up though.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574473651478532096


Special medical operations.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574781080170799106
Visual confirmation that Ukraine is close to flanking Lyman


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mi-28 and Ka-52 shturmoviks


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574791813503778818

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574787713227804672

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574781080170799106
> Visual confirmation that Ukraine is close to flanking Lyman


The latest intel suggest not just Lyman is under threat, also Kreminna and Makiivka has been retaken by Ukrainian force.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574795483620540416

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574777313048334338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574774727671009281

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## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> The latest intel suggest not just Lyman is under threat, also Kreminna and Makiivka has been retaken by Ukrainian force.


@Hassan Al-Somal pocket forming???!!! 

Though the advance is too slow to prevent russians from running away in time to be honest. It will however force them to give up Lyman.


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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574795483620540416


lol, you got to love the entire video of the purported "Iranian drone killed Ukrainian SPG Crew" show a single footage of a Tank, not a 2S3 as purported being hit and then a bunch of Ukrainian tank and soldier running around and say Russian destroyed this and destroyed that........

What's even more funny is that this video actually stole another video from other channel which show that's a RUSSIAN TANK being hit by Javelin and survive the blow.......

I don't know what to say but LOL. And that's the worse 9 minutes of my life I lost and can never get back. I mean, I saw bad copy and paste job and misinformation before, but not something this bad...



ZeGerman said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal pocket forming???!!!
> 
> Though the advance is too slow to prevent russians from running away in time to be honest. It will however force them to give up Lyman.


Well, there are no where for the Russian to run. The only decent fortification of the entire Luchansk area in that section is Troitske - Svatove - Kreminna - Sieverodonetsk. The Ukrainian is already pushing toward Svatove as we speak, and if Lyman fall and Kreminna (Which rumored to be vacated some weeks ago), then the entire line will fall, and there are no place for the Russian to go other than go back to the Pre-2022 line.

Listen to what Michael Clark said on Sky today






Or you can just go back to my post history because what he said I have said that a few weeks ago. There is one line of defence, that's Svatove toward Sieverodonetsk, and Lyman sit across two rivers, it is absolute requirement to hold Lyman to hold both crossing at the same time, and instead of reinforcing this line, Russia choose to pull troop from it and continue to attack Bakhmut, which is pointless because as Clarke said and as I point out a few weeks ago, even if you took Bakhmut (Which highly likely not) it won't do any good if Ukraine manage to roll over Northern Luhansk.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574757467799658501

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574794040951840771

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574797876630265858

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574796871134052356

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574796877119328260

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The desperation from Ukrainians of coming up with fictional stories after those Geran-2 kamikaze drones terrorized them is unbelievable. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574735875216314368

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574805812731465734

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574805831027019778

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574805831027019778

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574817327761195009


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574794040951840771





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574749827010908161


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574702622765891586



The first one if from Sep 19th, first test of new birds in the south.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574817327761195009




Source: Trust me, bro.


----------



## dbc

jhungary said:


> I don't know what to say but LOL. And that's the worse 9 minutes of my life I lost and can never get back. I mean, I saw bad copy and paste job and misinformation before, but not something this bad...



The Iranian Shahed 136 doesn't carry any onboard sensors it is programmed to follow waypoints and strike a predefined geographic coordinate using an onboard commercial GPS receiver. It's capability is limited to fixed targets, so reports of it destroying a self propelled artillery is dubious. I assume the munition can be reprogrammed in-flight provided it can communicate with its operator. Overall, it appears Ukraine has managed to intercept 8 of every 10 Shahed 136 launched by the Russians during the day with small arms and ack-ack. The Russians have now resorted to launching at night to increase its survivability, 

I've seen better drones created by high schools students but our Iranian friends and desperate Putinista's seem to think its the second coming of Christ.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Source: Trust me, bro.



Are you stupid? The source is Maxar its included in his post.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574491427400458241

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## Ali_Baba

dbc said:


> The Iranian Shahed 136 doesn't carry any onboard sensors it is programmed to follow waypoints and strike a predefined geographic coordinate using an onboard commercial GPS receiver. It's capability is limited to fixed targets, so reports of it destroying a self propelled artillery is dubious. I assume the munition can be reprogrammed in-flight provided it can communicate with its operator. Overall, it appears Ukraine has managed to intercept 8 of every 10 Shahed 136 launched by the Russians during the day with small arms and ack-ack. The Russians have now resorted to launching at night to increase its survivability,
> 
> I've seen better drones created by high schools students but our Iranian friends and desperate Putinista's seem to think its the second coming of Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you stupid? The source is Maxar its included in his post.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574491427400458241



It wont be long before the Americans work out the supply routes for the American processors being used in these drones and shut down those supply lines - I dont expect these Shahed 136 to last much longer..

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## dbc

Ali_Baba said:


> It wont be long before the Americans work out the supply routes for the American processors being used in these drones and shut down those supply lines -


It's impossible to block EAR99 technology since its classified as unrestricted. These chips go in washing machines and microwaves so blocking it is going to be challenging.

What is truly shocking is the Iranians have outdone the Russians a 'super power' in building cheap drones using off the shelf ITAR free technology.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> actually they did , it about 8 years ago , it came out of olmert mouth in anger that they use nuke against iran
> 
> 
> assassinations and sabotage are act of war and a very good reason if we decide t leave


The treaty says that reason for leaving needs to be related to nuclear weapons.
AFAIK, Olmert warned Iran that there was a price to pay for violating the treaty but did not go into specifics.
That is not an acceptable reason for leaving the treaty.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574809185317011456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574812574557868032


----------



## Dalit

thetutle said:


> your government can make it cheaper for you by ditching some these unless green policies that wont solve the imagined global warming. (I just love it when global warming people are protesting that its too expensive to heat their homes. - use the global warming to heat your home fool)
> 
> they will result in the destruction of the russian army in ukraine, thats all.



It won't bud. Russia will be fine. Ukraine is being destroyed as a country. Large Ukrainian areas are about to be officially annexed and announced as Russian territory.

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## dbc

Dalit said:


> It won't bud. Russia will be fine. Ukraine is being destroyed.



How are you enjoying them energy prices in The Netherlands? I'll know things are really bad when you abandon the EU and return to Pakistan. You're like my canary in the mine.  

But do let us know once your abandon ship...

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## Dalit

dbc said:


> How are you enjoying them energy prices in The Netherlands? I'll know things are really bad when you abandon the EU and return to Pakistan. You're like my canary in the mine.
> 
> But do let us know once your abandon ship...



LOL good to see you spend hours upon hours in this specific topic... It amounts to really nothing or does it?


----------



## dbc

Dalit said:


> LOL good to see you spend hours upon hours in this specific topic... It amounts to really nothing or does it?


Probably made less than 10 posts in total on this thread. Hardly hours upon hours.
Have you given up hope on Putin bringing immeasurable pain to your country and fellow Dutch nationals?

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## jhungary

dbc said:


> The Iranian Shahed 136 doesn't carry any onboard sensors it is programmed to follow waypoints and strike a predefined geographic coordinate using an onboard commercial GPS receiver. It's capability is limited to fixed targets, so reports of it destroying a self propelled artillery is dubious. I assume the munition can be reprogrammed in-flight provided it can communicate with its operator. Overall, it appears Ukraine has managed to intercept 8 of every 10 Shahed 136 launched by the Russians during the day with small arms and ack-ack. The Russians have now resorted to launching at night to increase its survivability,
> 
> I've seen better drones created by high schools students but our Iranian friends and desperate Putinista's seem to think its the second coming of Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you stupid? The source is Maxar its included in his post.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574491427400458241


They are using the Iran drone on rear target and civilian structure. That's why they choose Odessa for the attack, that's a very big give away. 

If these drones are capable of loitering and attack moving target, they would have been either used to help Russian push in Bakhmut or help defending Northern Luchansk. Its absent said words that this propaganda can never.

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> They are using the Iran drone on rear target and civilian structure. That's why they choose Odessa for the attack, that's a very big give away.
> 
> If these drones are capable of loitering and attack moving target, they would have been either used to help Russian push in Bakhmut or help defending Northern Luchansk. Its absent said words that this propaganda can never.



The Shaheds are strictly being used for terror bombing. Meanwhile, Russian lines are about to collapse in Northern Luhansk. Those drones won’t change anything.

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> They are using the Iran drone on rear target and civilian structure. That's why they choose Odessa for the attack, that's a very big give away.
> 
> If these drones are capable of loitering and attack moving target, they would have been either used to help Russian push in Bakhmut or help defending Northern Luchansk. Its absent said words that this propaganda can never.



The houthis have been using these exact same drones to better the American weaponry that the Saudis have deployed in Yemen. The efficacy and operational value of these Iranian systems have been sufficiently proven on the battlefield.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574838607080296504

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574726839729147905


dbc said:


> The Iranian Shahed 136 doesn't carry any onboard sensors it is programmed to follow waypoints and strike a predefined geographic coordinate using an onboard commercial GPS receiver. It's capability is limited to fixed targets, so reports of it destroying a self propelled artillery is dubious. I assume the munition can be reprogrammed in-flight provided it can communicate with its operator. Overall, it appears Ukraine has managed to intercept 8 of every 10 Shahed 136 launched by the Russians during the day with small arms and ack-ack. The Russians have now resorted to launching at night to increase its survivability,
> 
> I've seen better drones created by high schools students but our Iranian friends and desperate Putinista's seem to think its the second coming of Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you stupid? The source is Maxar its included in his post.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574491427400458241




Dumbo, how did the traffic that came to halt between the Republic of Abkhazia and Russia prove people fleeing from the partial mobilization in the Russian Federation? You and Maxar are spewing a hot air. You can't pass your wishful thinking as news.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574818385535303683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574816485087875076

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574827178419691521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574822162220945418

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574726839729147905
> 
> 
> Dumbo, how did the traffic that came to halt between the Republic of Abkhazia and Russia prove people fleeing from the partial mobilization in the Russian Federation? You and Maxar are spewing a hot air. You can't pass your wishful thinking as news.


Not just georgia shows an increase. Also finland, kazachstan, turkey. But i see you choose to be blind for anything but your own propaganda sources. 









Kazakhstan struggles to accommodate Russians fleeing war


Kazakhstan is struggling to accommodate tens of thousands of Russians who have fled their homeland since Moscow announced a military mobilisation last week, officials say, but the Almaty government has no plans to close its border.




www.reuters.com













More Russians travelled to Finland during weekend, border data shows


Almost 17,000 Russians crossed the border into Finland during the weekend, an 80% rise from a week earlier, Finnish authorities said on Monday, as the influx of people continued in the wake of Russia's announcement of military mobilisation.




www.reuters.com













Russian men flee the country. Many are showing up in Istanbul


Men are fleeing Russia by land or air days after President Vladimir Putin said he was mobilizing more forces into Ukraine. NPR met Russians arriving in Turkey, where they don't need visas to enter.




www.npr.org





How are those pockets going again? 

Some predictions:
Lyman will fall. 
Kherson will too. Its logistics cannot support the ongoing pressure cooker.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574831717311205381

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574726839729147905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574726527329222657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574706559267246080

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574758898086694912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574757686058573827

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574743473869262850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574754143251664897

Reactions: Like Like:
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## zectech

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572998230173941761

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574716317407772672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574737723621244928


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574845580718776321


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574823630730567680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574823960298098688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574824169732280322

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574861154609930248


----------



## aviator_fan

Energy woes, all relative. 85% of storage reached. Beer in Germany is expensive. And eiffel tower will be dark for an hour... definitely first world problems. It is more expensive energy but manageable compared to poorer countries who are losing their chance to buy at spot rates to richer countries. They should be shutting down the lights on the tower for the night as a symbolism. 









Lights out, ovens off: Europe preps for winter energy crisis


FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) — As Europe heads into winter in the throes of an energy crisis , offices are getting chillier.




apnews.com





FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) — As Europe heads into winter in the throes of an energy crisis, offices are getting chillier. Statues and historic buildings are going dark. Bakers who can’t afford to heat their ovens are talking about giving up, while fruit and vegetable growers face letting greenhouses stand idle.

In poorer eastern Europe, people are stocking up on firewood, while in wealthier Germany, the wait for an energy-saving heat pump can take half a year. And businesses don’t know how much more they can cut back.

“We can’t turn off the lights and make our guests sit in the dark,” said Richard Kovacs, business development manager for Hungarian burger chain Zing Burger. The restaurants already run the grills no more than necessary and use motion detectors to turn off lights in storage, with some stores facing a 750% increase in electricity bills since the beginning of the year.

With costs high and energy supplies tight, Europe is rolling out relief programs and plans to shake up electricity and natural gas markets as it prepares for rising energy use this winter. The question is whether it will be enough to avoid government-imposed rationing and rolling blackouts after Russia cut back natural gas needed to heat homes, run factories and generate electricity to a tenth of what it was before invading Ukraine.

Russia-Ukraine war​


Ukrainians scared by Russia's preordained referendums​

Russian military recruiter shot amid fear of Ukraine call-up​




Hardship remains for Ukrainian town emerging from occupation​

Japan bans export of chemical weapons goods to Russia​
ADVERTISEMENT


Europe’s dependence on Russian energy has turned the war into an energy and economic crisis, with prices rising to record highs in recent months and fluctuating wildly.

In response, governments have worked hard to find new supplies and conserve energy, with gas storage facilities now 86% full ahead of the winter heating season — beating the goal of 80% by November. They have committed to lower gas use by 15%, meaning the Eiffel Tower will plunge into darkness over an hour earlier than normal while shops and buildings shut off lights at night or lower thermostats.

Europe’s ability to get through the winter may ultimately depend on how cold it is and what happens in China. Shutdowns aimed at halting the spread of COVID-19 have idled large parts of China’s economy and meant less competition for scarce energy supplies.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said this month that early preparations mean Europe’s biggest economy is “now in a position in which we can go bravely and courageously into this winter, in which our country will withstand this.”

ADVERTISEMENT


“No one could have said that three, four, five months ago, or at the beginning of this year,” he added.

Even if there is gas this winter, high prices already are pushing people and businesses to use less and forcing some energy-intensive factories like glassmakers to close.

It’s a decision also facing fruit and vegetable growers in the Netherlands who are key to Europe’s winter food supply: shutter greenhouses or take a loss after costs skyrocketed for gas heating and electric light.

Bosch Growers, which grows green peppers and blackberries, has put up extra insulation, idled one greenhouse and experimented with lower temperatures. The cost? Smaller yields, blackberries taking longer to ripen, and potentially operating in the red to maintain customer relationships even at lower volumes.

ADVERTISEMENT


“We want to stay on the market, not to ruin the reputation that we have developed over the years,” said Wouter van den Bosch, the sixth generation of his family to help run the business. “We are in survival mode.”

Kovacs, grower van den Bosch and bakers like Andreas Schmitt in Frankfurt, Germany, are facing the hard reality that conservation only goes so far.

Schmitt is heating fewer ovens at his 25 Cafe Ernst bakeries, running them longer to spare startup energy, narrowing his pastry selection to ensure ovens run full, and storing less dough to cut refrigeration costs. That might save 5-10% off an energy bill that is set to rise from 300,000 euros per year, to 1.1 million next year.

“It’s not going to shift the world,” he said. The bulk of his costs is “the energy required to get dough to bread, and that is a given quantity of energy.”

ADVERTISEMENT

Schmitt, head of the local bakers’ guild, said some small bakeries are contemplating giving up. Government help will be key in the short term, he said, while a longer-term solution involves reforming energy markets themselves.

Europe is targeting both, though the spending required may be unsustainable. Nations have allocated 500 billion euros to ease high utility bills since September 2021, according to an analysis from the Bruegel think tank in Brussels, and they are bailing out utilities that can’t afford to buy gas to fulfill their contracts.

Governments have lined up additional gas supply from pipelines running to Norway and Azerbaijan and ramped up their purchase of expensive liquefied natural gas that comes by ship, largely from the U.S.

Natural gas prices
At the same time, the EU is weighing drastic interventions like taxing energy companies’ windfall profits and revamping electricity markets so natural gas costs play less of a role in determining power prices.

But as countries scramble to replace Russian fossil fuels and even reactivate polluting coal-fired power plants, environmentalists and the EU itself say renewables are the way out long term.

ADVERTISEMENT


Neighbors in Madrid looking to cut electricity costs and aid the energy transition installed solar panels this month to supply their housing development after years of work.

“I have suddenly reduced my gas consumption by 40%, with very little use of three radiators strategically placed in the house,” neighbor Manuel Ruiz said.

Governments have dismissed Russia as an energy supplier but President Vladimir Putin still has leverage, analysts say. Some Russian gas is still flowing and a hard winter could undermine public support for Ukraine in some countries. There have already been protests in places like Czechia and Belgium.

“The market is very tight and every molecule counts,” said Agata Loskot-Strachota, senior fellow for energy policy at the Center for Eastern Studies in Warsaw. “This is the leverage that Putin still has — that Europe would have to face disappointed or impoverished societies.”

In Bulgaria, the poorest of the EU’s 27 members, surging energy costs are forcing families to cut extra spending ahead of winter to ensure there is enough money to buy food and medicine.

More than a quarter of Bulgaria’s 7 million people can’t afford to heat their home, according to EU statistics office Eurostat, the highest in the 27-nation bloc due to poorly insulated buildings and low incomes. Nearly half of households use firewood in winter as the cheapest and most accessible fuel, but rising demand and galloping inflation have driven prices above last year’s levels.

In the capital, Sofia, where almost half a million households have heating provided by central plants, many sought other options after a 40% price increase was announced.

Grigor Iliev, a 68-year-old retired bookkeeper, and his wife decided to cancel their central heating and buy a combined air conditioner-heating unit for their two-room apartment.

“It’s a costly device, but in the long run, we will recoup our investment,” he said.

Meanwhile, businesses are trying to stay afloat without alienating customers. Klara Aurell, owner of two Prague restaurants, said she’s done all she can to conserve energy.

“We use LED bulbs, we turn the lights off during the day, the heating is only when it gets really cold and we use it only in a limited way,” she said. “We also take measures to save water and use energy-efficient equipment. We can hardly do anything else. The only thing to remain is to increase prices. That’s how it is.”

The gourmet Babushka Artisanal Bakery in an affluent district of Budapest has had to raise prices by 10%. The bakery used less air conditioning despite Hungary’s hottest summer on record and is ensuring the ovens don’t run without bread inside.

While it has enough traffic to stay open for now, further jumps in energy costs could threaten its viability, owner Eszter Roboz said.

“A twofold increase in energy costs still fits into the operation of our business and into our calculations,” she said. “But in the case of a three- to fourfold increase, we will really need to think about whether we can continue this.”



Han Patriot said:


> That's what I had been telling you natards, respect the boundary. Don't push someone to a corner. NATO pushed Russia into a corner and they won't and can't lose this war. The worst outcome is nuclear. Do you think this is funny anymore? Oooo hahaha, the Russians are losing, hahhaha, HIMARS, hahaha, Bayrakthar, hahaha, M777. I am Chinese and I don't want nukes flying OK. I tried my best to drill into the thick skulls of cheerleaders here, you don't want Russia to LOSE, you want them to agree on a settlement. Divide Ukraine into 2 or just did what they asked in the first fcking place, a neutrality pact and no more expansion of NATO. US is trying to maintain a unipolar world and this is dangerous.


May be you should have given some of your wise lectures to Putin too. Just because he is a rat, all should be forgiven? Today Ukraine , tomorrow Poland. Europe already has had a Hitler. Your hippie policies should be equally applicable to Putin as well instead of expressing your frustration at NATO.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> While it is true the US has millions of illegal immigrants every year, but the white population is diluted. The US used to be 90% white, now it is only 50% white. Go to any major city in the US and whites are clear minority. This dilutes American identity. I know what a Chinese is. I know what a Russian is. I don't know what an American is. The US has no official language, no cultural identity. In the long run, the US weakens while China, Russia strengthen.


This is where your pathetic brain is deluded. Once they are there and get rights, there is no distinction between them and 'whites'. Thats why the Vice President is a daughter of an immigrant. Thats why CEOs of top 5 most valuable companies are immigrants (not born). Your idols in Russia will give citizenship only to those that want to die . Hardly similar

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## thetutle

dbc said:


> How are you enjoying them energy prices in The Netherlands? I'll know things are really bad when you abandon the EU and return to Pakistan. You're like my canary in the mine.
> 
> But do let us know once your abandon ship...


Don't worry it wont happen. he'll stay in the EU even if he has to turn down his home heating from 28 to 26 degrees.

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## gambit

aviator_fan said:


> Today Ukraine , tomorrow Poland.


Right...So with each country, his argument will remain the same: "You don't want Russia to lose."

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574869554441949184


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574861154609930248



how many Russian Troops will be trapped?

With winter coming Russia logistics problems are about to get x4 worse!!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574876139641774100
New aid package


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574876139641774100
> New aid package



Too little. Only 10% the production rate of Russian military industrial complex which transitioned to war economy in September.

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Too little. Only 10% the production rate of Russian military industrial complex which transitioned to war economy in September.



Honestly seriously. You are believing g this phoney from Moscow. 

The state of degradation of the Russian military is shocking.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Honestly seriously. You are believing g this phoney from Moscow.
> 
> The state of degradation of the Russian military is shocking.



Iran produces faster than America. Iran absolutely hates America since 1979 revolution. Iran supply thousands of drones to Russia to blow up Ukrainian tanks. In addition, Russia builds thousands more a year with TOT.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574702380175986693

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574696958983217152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574841822433742886

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574857994596192270


----------



## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> That's what I had been telling you natards, respect the boundary. Don't push someone to a corner. NATO pushed Russia into a corner and they won't and can't lose this war. The worst outcome is nuclear. Do you think this is funny anymore? Oooo hahaha, the Russians are losing, hahhaha, HIMARS, hahaha, Bayrakthar, hahaha, M777. I am Chinese and I don't want nukes flying OK. I tried my best to drill into the thick skulls of cheerleaders here, you don't want Russia to LOSE, you want them to agree on a settlement. Divide Ukraine into 2 or just did what they asked in the first fcking place, a neutrality pact and no more expansion of NATO. US is trying to maintain a unipolar world and this is dangerous.


Just curious. If the rest of the world gives in to russian nuclear blackmail now, what prevents Russia from doing it again? 
Why isnt Russia scared shitless provoking NATO with all the combined nuclear weapons in its stockpile?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574862579012456450
These might be Saboteurs..lol

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574858181532127261

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574888460078432262

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574872425044516870

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The real invasion forces
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574136666184646657


The russian fleeing should be granted asylum. But to be honest, I cant blame smaller countries for not wanting them. We all know Putin wants to come “rescue” them in a few years down the road.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574866027648786447

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574870867573612555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574870155670294528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574867462511796226

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## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Another day in the insane asylum
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574491958101393411


You would have to be a complete moron not to realize this is not scripted and ment to push the blame away from Putin.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574563389657219074


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574860720239419392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574853065311719432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574848555864432640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574842146359808015

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574837439268622377

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574837439268622377





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574870801253277710
Over 1,100 Russian losses since September 1.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> The houthis have been using these exact same drones to better the American weaponry that the Saudis have deployed in Yemen. The efficacy and operational value of these Iranian systems have been sufficiently proven on the battlefield.


It's not about being "Battle Proven" because different battle has a different set of requirements and each side have different approach to the battle. 

Just because it worked in one battle (Which I still highly doubt the Iranian drone efficiency in Yemen) it may not work on another battlefield. It's about what they are used on the ground and how this impact that particular war. In THIS war, the Iranian drone is not a efficient battlefield weapon. That's coming from the ground facts in this war.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574896058219769856

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> how many Russian Troops will be trapped?
> 
> With winter coming Russia logistics problems are about to get x4 worse!!


There were 2 Battalion defending Lyman alone. Not counting the surrounding city. You are talking about 1,000 men +.

If Telegram channel were to believe, then most likely the Russian had already lost contact with 1 of the Battalion and the other one are withdrawing. But then there are now only 1 way to leave Lyman, and Ukrainian had set up Artillery Position along that road to cover the Russian retreat. If the Ukrainian want, they can do another Highway of Death in Iraq for the Lyman defender.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574807734649749504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574781142196158468

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574831917404491776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574828216895905792

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574563389657219074


Com'on, this is SO VERY OBVIOUSLY SHOT IN THE DESERT....and judging by the angle and the target, it is highly likely to be Target Practices session.....


----------



## _Nabil_

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574860720239419392




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574888777683968006

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## The SC

Three explosions occurred in Kharkiv, then electricity in the city disappeared - Reuters!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574862837519884297

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## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> The latest intel suggest not just Lyman is under threat, also Kreminna and Makiivka has been retaken by Ukrainian force.


If that is true (I hope so), we might see the ukrainians take 100s if not not 1000s POWs


----------



## jhungary

__





Russians tortured prisoner playing ABBA 24 hours a day






www.msn.com





The west uses Heavy Metal on advance interrogation, but seems like no Heavy Working band want to work with Russia and they have to use ABBA's Mamma Mia sound track......Do they know? Are they going to ask for royalty?



MeFishToo said:


> If that is true (I hope so), we might see the ukrainians take 100s if not not 1000s POWs


Actually, they are threatening Kreminna, they had not taken Kreminna yet, I have a bad choice of wording.

But Ukraine did take back Makiivka. 

And Lyman alone would see 1000 of POW if Russia dead set on keeping the defence there, Lyman is not defendable, has been so since after the Kharkiv Counteroffensive.


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574818385535303683
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574816485087875076
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574827178419691521
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574822162220945418


Russia trying to annex land while trying to divide europe. None but russian trolls and conspiracy theorist are spreading this russian sabotage as “CIA”.

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## Paul2

dbc said:


> The Iranian Shahed 136 doesn't carry any onboard sensors it is programmed to follow waypoints and strike a predefined geographic coordinate using an onboard commercial GPS receiver. It's capability is limited to fixed targets, so reports of it destroying a self propelled artillery is dubious. I assume the munition can be reprogrammed in-flight provided it can communicate with its operator. Overall, it appears Ukraine has managed to intercept 8 of every 10 Shahed 136 launched by the Russians during the day with small arms and ack-ack. The Russians have now resorted to launching at night to increase its survivability,
> 
> I've seen better drones created by high schools students but our Iranian friends and desperate Putinista's seem to think its the second coming of Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you stupid? The source is Maxar its included in his post.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574491427400458241



If it uses commercial GPS, it should be susceptible to simplest GPS jamming. US can actually just turn off civilian GPS over Ukraine.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Russia trying to annex land while trying to divede europe. None but russian trolls and conspiracy theorist are spreading this russian sabotage as “CIA”.



CIA started the war by orchestrating Euro Maidan riot in 2014 during Sochi olympics. They ain't fooling anyone. Every developing country supports Russia. Anglos think we are stupid. They got another thing coming.








Paul2 said:


> If it uses commercial GPS, it should be susceptible to simplest GPS jamming. US can actually just turn off civilian GPS over Ukraine.



They can't afford that. Ukraine is reliant on DJI drones for recon. If they turn off GPS all those DJI drones become useless.


----------



## MeFishToo

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574888777683968006


Doing your best spreading russian disinformation, arent you. The entire world by now know its russia trying to make europe worry about energy supply, while annexing ukrainian land.

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## dbc

Paul2 said:


> If it uses commercial GPS, it should be susceptible to simplest GPS jamming. US can actually just turn off civilian GPS over Ukraine.



it could be a Beidou or GLONASS or even a hybrid receiver all easily jammed of course but with the right equipment.


----------



## Paul2

dbc said:


> It's impossible to block EAR99 technology since its classified as unrestricted. These chips go in washing machines and microwaves so blocking it is going to be challenging.
> 
> What is truly shocking is the Iranians have outdone the Russians a 'super power' in building cheap drones using off the shelf ITAR free technology.



It's much harder to descend from heavens to earth, than the other way around.

One was a superpower which never had problems getting high end mil-spec parts, and tons of money to brute force issues engineers cannot solve. US took their candy, and they are helpless like a cat in water.

The other one was a survivalist, which had to wiggle, twist, and only solve issues with original solutions from the start.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574901568247406607

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574896930471256073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574897021080805389

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574869554441949184


Is that thing from WW2?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574896930471256073
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574897021080805389




That unit is dead before it hits the field with "_rubbing phosphorus in their eyes_." They might as well show the movie Full Metal Jacket; that'll make more sense than these dumb f**ks.
But I'm still rooting for the Russians. 🤣

** The Russians collectively as a nation have won the Darwin Award for 2022 **


----------



## PakFactor

RoadAmerica said:


> Is that thing from WW2?



I'm more concerned about that faggot pose he's doing than the tank.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Is that thing from WW2?



Cornflower is from 1970s









2B9 Vasilek - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574882851878739981

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574862579012456450
> These might be Saboteurs..lol
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574858181532127261
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574888460078432262
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574872425044516870


Every single oblast in Russia has held a referendum, and have decided to join me (98.9% in favor, 1.1% not able to vote) in the creation of a new nation called "Guyistan", our people will be called "Guys" irrespective of gender, and our national currency has the face of Gordon Freeman on it.

No one cares if Russia held a fake referendum. Unless Russia is willing to use nukes (and they aren't) Russia is clearly going to lose this war.

Russian population itself isn't buying Putin's bullshit, and once Putin loses this war (and he will) he'll likely lose his head.

Putin is the biggest fool Russia has ever seen.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486818088016355336


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574892761693790210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574841526303219712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574322759777361922

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The treaty says that reason for leaving needs to be related to nuclear weapons.


no don't say that , it say it must threaten security of the country and the information we shared with IAEA used in assassination of our scientists . that alone is reason enough


A.P. Richelieu said:


> AFAIK, Olmert warned Iran that there was a price to pay for violating the treaty but did not go into specifics.


he said if Iran attack us with nukes we answer them back with nuke , Iran never ever threatened Israel with nuke and the threat show they had it .


A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is not an acceptable reason for leaving the treaty.


that is far more agreeable reason than N.K. reason to leave , and N.K. reason accepted ,its additional protocol that close the door to leave and we didn't sign it


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574735371996373001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574806436600766464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574842671897710592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574882352135806984

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> It's not about being "Battle Proven" because different battle has a different set of requirements and each side have different approach to the battle.
> 
> Just because it worked in one battle (Which I still highly doubt the Iranian drone efficiency in Yemen) it may not work on another battlefield. It's about what they are used on the ground and how this impact that particular war. In THIS war, the Iranian drone is not a efficient battlefield weapon. That's coming from the ground facts in this war.



Don’t you think the Russians would be testing them first before buying !!!

Actually Iranian drones are already being used in Ukrainian I have seen the footage. Russia is not saying much neither is iran but Ukraine military has said their equipment is being destroyed by the Iranian kamikaze drones ?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574870801253277710
> Over 1,100 Russian losses since September 1.




Stop making shit up. If the Russians lost over 1100, why did the West attack Nord Stream 2? It is certainly an act of desperation on the part of Western powers after Russia announced the partial mobilization and those Iranian-built drones were introduced into the conflict. The whole muh HIMARS claims were no longer working, and the Western elites started attacking a civilian pipeline due to panicking.

Now, you can watch these Shahed-136 drones that are wreaking havoc on Western equipment in Ukraine. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574971987986100224
Destroyed Ukrainian equipment 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574322759777361922

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> no don't say that , it say it must threaten security of the country and the information we shared with IAEA used in assassination of our scientists . that alone is reason enough


”Each Party shall in exercising its national sovereignty have the right to withdraw from the Treaty if it decides that extraordinary events, related to the subject matter of this Treaty, have jeopardized the supreme interests of its country.”

By signing the treaty, Iran acknowledges that having nuclear arms is not a supreme interest. 
A resigned prime minister that made a comment a decade ago cannot today be an ”extraordinary” event. Even if Olmert threatened to respond to an attack with nukes on Israel with nukes, which is yet to be proven, this is not enough.

Basically you need a threat of a nuclear attack if you do not comply with unreasonable terms.


Hack-Hook said:


> he said if Iran attack us with nukes we answer them back with nuke , Iran never ever threatened Israel with nuke and the threat show they had it .


Feel free to show a source…


Hack-Hook said:


> that is far more agreeable reason than N.K. reason to leave , and N.K. reason accepted ,its additional protocol that close the door to leave and we didn't sign it


Ukraine would have a case, Iran does not.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574785397435023370

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574947720464171008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574857056040853504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574781023207948289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574761608274137090

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## aviator_fan

One_Nation said:


> Indian has betrayed Russia as they found a new backer i.e. USA.


India's entire growth is tied to the west. The number of $100BN corporations (IT, Steel), so what practical reason would they have ever backed the supplier of their substandard weapons? Just because Russians sold them a carrier they should back them up when their entire economic growth is hinged on US and Europe.

Its a practical decision

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## The SC

Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council:

I repeat..we will use nuclear to defend Russia..this is not a hoax






@US_World1

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2 | Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> @waz @The Eagle
> 
> Cheering deaths and mocking soldiers is against forum rules.


Also these points should be made against forum rules:
1. Idiotic baseless posts that says population advantage wins when there is no historical data
2. Making ignorant claims like Russia industrial might is huge in comaprison to the US when its really smaller than South Korea, let alone the rest of Europe. And that was before there 5% decline
3. Uninformed arguments about how a Russian or a Chinese system is better than HIMARS. Well if Chinese is better, give it to the Russians. And Russians have one, what wedding night celebration are they saving their precision artillery for
4. Claiming to speak for an entire population of 1BN+ Chinese that 'Chinese will do this and do that', when the only knowledge you have of China are the Made in China socks that you have on.
And I could go on for detracting from the knowledgable debate going on here on both sides by your repeat cut and pastes that make you sound dumber than a Russian bot on Twitter.



Dalit said:


> It won't bud. Russia will be fine. Ukraine is being destroyed as a country. Large Ukrainian areas are about to be officially annexed and announced as Russian territory.


Russia is fine yes, when it has resorted to retarded criminals to do the fighting and anybody that can afford it has left as part of the 250K male population. 

That and over the next 5 years its infrastructure will be like the 60s Soviet Union working with paper/ink/typer writers. . Only train transportation. Oil pumping will stop as Siemens and Shlumberger equipment will not be available. I think it will be a big tourist destination in 5 years if you wanted to visit a bigger version of Cuba, a land that has stood still in time.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Iran produces faster than America. Iran absolutely hates America since 1979 revolution. Iran supply thousands of drones to Russia to blow up Ukrainian tanks. In addition, Russia builds thousands more a year with TOT.


Average (not Shah and his rich subjects) have hated Iran way before 79: 79 was when they proved it.

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Stop making shit up. If the Russians lost over 1100, why did the West attack Nord Stream 2? It is certainly an act of desperation on the part of Western powers after Russia announced the partial mobilization and those Iranian-built drones were introduced into the conflict. The whole muh HIMARS claims were no longer working, and the Western elites started attacking a civilian pipeline due to panicking.
> 
> Now, you can watch these Shahed-136 drones that are wreaking havoc on Western equipment in Ukraine. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574971987986100224
> Destroyed Ukrainian equipment 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574322759777361922


Not bad. Now Iran has chosen the side. They should not blame if the west tightens the screw. they support Russia although Putin ousts iran oil exports to Asia. Dumb people.

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## aviator_fan

Putin will be the only leader in history that created war refugees outside and inside his country: first the rich left, and now the able bodied younger ones leaving.

Yes I know, we can't/shouldn't believe these numbers, because Russia has it together and we should follow Twitter handles that promote a Russia only view because if Russian's said anything against, they would be arrested and jailed.

But I will trust the quotes from Govt officials in Georgia, Kasakhastan that are quoted here and have to provide housing and sustainance for these large numbers. 

And once they settle in, chances they go back is zero .









Russians who fled Putin's mobilization speak out


Huge lines of traffic have formed at Russia's borders as Russians seek to get out, after Putin calls for nationwide draft for war in Ukraine.




abcnews.go.com




Russians who fled Putin's mobilization speak out​Huge lines of traffic have formed at borders as Russians seek to get out.
ByPatrick Reevell
September 27, 2022, 4:26 PM








2:55

Fears of escalation mount amid Russian war in Ukraine
Fears of escalation mount amid Russian war in Ukraine
With escalating resistance across Russia to Putin’s new military draft, thousands have taken to the streets to protest.


Tens of thousands of Russians continue to try to flee the country, fearful of being caught up in the military mobilization ordered by president Vladimir Putin last week to replenish his forces in Ukraine.
Miles-long lines of traffic have formed at border crossings with some neighboring countries amid the exodus, as Russians pack exit routes, worried the government might soon impose further restrictions on military age men leaving.




This satellite image provided by Maxar Technologies on Sept. 26, 2022, shows an overview of the traffic jam near the Russia border with Georgia on Sept. 25, 2022, after Russian President Vladamir Putin annou...
Maxar Technologies via AP
Officials in Kazakhstan, which borders Russia to the south, said 98,000 Russians have crossed into their country since Putin announced the mobilization last Wednesday. Georgia's interior ministry told ABC News Tuesday that 100,000 had entered its territory in the past few days. Tens of thousands more have left via other countries, including Finland and Mongolia. The European Union's border service said 66,000 Russians had entered the bloc over the past week, 30% more than the week before.
MORE: Wait reaches 40 to 50 hours as people attempt to flee into Georgia to avoid draft: Report​
Russians began fleeing the country within hours of Putin's ordering what he called a "partial" mobilization to call-up 300,000 men in an effort to reverse the course of his faltering war in Ukraine. In reality, experts say there are little restrictions on who can be drafted and there are widespread reports of men being mobilized regardless of their eligibility.
Although the mobilization for now is officially meant to apply only to those with some military experience, many fear the criteria could be expanded and that the government could block military age men from leaving the country. Men subject to the draft are barred from leaving the country and widespread reports are emerging of men with military experience being turned back from borders.




Russians wait and lineup to get Kazakhstan's INN in a public service center in Almaty, Kazakhstan, on Sept. 27, 2022.
Vladimir Tretyakov/NUR.KZ via AP
At the Verkhny Lars crossing where Russia borders Georgia, a line of hundreds of cars has formed, stretching back around 12 miles, according to journalists there, with thousands of people waiting, some sleeping in their cars. The BBC reported 2,500 cars were currently in the line, citing Russia's customs service.
Russian authorities on Tuesday confirmed that Russian troops with armored vehicles had set up a checkpoint at the crossing to turn back those subject to the call-up and were handing out draft papers there. Officials said a mobile enlistment office had also been set up at the border crossing.
Kazakhstan, which has a nearly 5,000 mile-long border with Russia and a relaxed entry regime, has become a magnet for those leaving, with border crossings swamped. A 37-year-old man who entered Kazakhstan Monday near the Oral-Uralsk crossing said the line of traffic waiting at one checkpoint point now stretched nearly 20 miles.
"There's simply a hellish line -- it's endless. And moreover at all checkpoints," the man, a manager from Tver, a city just outside Moscow, said by phone. He asked to remain anonymous for fear of punishment by the Russian authorities.




People ride bicycles along a queue of vehicles at the Verkhny Lars checkpoint in North Ossetia, Russia on the border to Georgia, on Sept. 27, 2022. Around 3.5 thousand cars are queueing at the checkpoint t...
Yelena Afonina/TASS via ZUMA Press
The man said he had spent 20 hours by road to reach the border from Moscow and was now in the border city of Uralsk, on the Kazakhstan side. Although he is currently not subject to the draft because he has no military experience, he said he had still decided to flee because he feared the borders being closed soon and did not believe in fighting against Ukraine.



Viet said:


> Not bad. Now Iran has chosen the side. They should not blame if the west tightens the screw. they support Russia although Putin ousts iran oil exports to Asia. Dumb people.


Iranians are the most selfish b***t*ds , like their Saudi brethren.

These drones are useless against Israel and they know it, so they never used it once. Instead they let Hamas attack Israel with projectiles that are intercepted but then in the counter-fire Palestinians civilians get slaughtered every time. This is Iran's strength.

So their strength is to brain wash and provide substandard weapons to groups that will stand up against Israel except they end up getting slaughtered: in Lebanon, Gaza, and more recently Syria.

But their supremacy is against Saudi Arabia where they can do some damage. Of course the entire Saudi military apparatus is as retarded as their ability to conduct intelligence: the joke of the century to murder your own citizen in your consulate that is almost always under surveiilance by your host country.

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## khansaheeb

If NATO -Russia nuke war starts these weapons could be used and it appears both sides are intensely preparing:-

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## thetutle

MeFishToo said:


> Just curious. If the rest of the world gives in to russian nuclear blackmail now, what prevents Russia from doing it again?
> Why isnt Russia scared shitless provoking NATO with all the combined nuclear weapons in its stockpile?


You down understand man. Russian can not lose.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Don’t you think the Russians would be testing them first before buying !!!
> 
> Actually Iranian drones are already being used in Ukrainian I have seen the footage. Russia is not saying much neither is iran but Ukraine military has said their equipment is being destroyed by the Iranian kamikaze drones ?


First of all, if Russia need to buy Iranian drone, they are desperate, I mean you have Chinese Drone, you have Israeli drone you have other drone in the market. You don't buy Iranian drone unless you are pretty desperate. 

Secondly, all the footage (the one people confirmed) are they are being used to hit what we call Static or Hard target. which mean encampment, building and ammunition depot, I don't think I have seen any Iranian drone were used to target soft target. Which is what Russia need to take on now, hard target won't do much on a mobile battlefield, and it is quite clearly the road Ukrainian is going for. Because by the time you hit those targets, the frontline may already be pushed 10s if not hundreds of miles further, rendering those targets useless. 

And equipment is a broad term, a tank is equipment, a radar system is a equipment, the computer on a HQ is also a equipment, again, I am not saying Ukraine loses nothing over those Iranian drone, and they are not a problem per se (well, it actually isn't at this point) but I am saying the problem is more or less nuisance and they cannot be used to target soft target or mobile target, otherwise they would already been deployed to Kherson and Kharkiv frontline, when the Russian is hanging on by a thread.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> You down understand man. Russian can not lose.


It's much rather Russia cannot AFFORD to lose, but not that they cannot lose, because they are going to lose in Ukraine. In fact, as I and many had already mentioned here and analyst worldwide said they had ALREAD LOST in term of strategic position, because in one stroke, they themselves had relegated to pariah state of the world, and now it pretty much depends on China to keep the government from malfunctioning. Border with NATO country increases instead of decreases, and then they got stuck with an angry neighbor have enough weapon that can take them down and a collective west that are more than happy to keep supplying them weapon to screw with the Russia. What Russia get in return? the "annexed" state?

Annexing those state is an act of desperation for Russia, that's literally the last draw because they would have to put their money to their mouth and really defend with everything they have when those annexed territories eventually get attacked. Nobody, not the west, not the Ukrainian is going to even entertain the fact that those state are now "Russian Territories". Which mean if this is the case, there are only 2 options left for Russia, they either call for a general mobilisation, or use nuke. To do either of that is basically Putin's political and probably literal suicide.

You asked me before what can the Russian middle class do when they are mobilised? Well, have you seen the state of affair in Russia lately? And that's not even them being mobilising, now imagine when Putin come down with a news that they are going to use nuke and bring them all down with him because of this war, or literally bring them to the war by drafting each and every one of them. What would you think will happen?

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## Viet

aviator_fan said:


> Putin will be the only leader in history that created war refugees outside and inside his country: first the rich left, and now the able bodied younger ones leaving.
> 
> Yes I know, we can't/shouldn't believe these numbers, because Russia has it together and we should follow Twitter handles that promote a Russia only view because if Russian's said anything against, they would be arrested and jailed.
> 
> But I will trust the quotes from Govt officials in Georgia, Kasakhastan that are quoted here and have to provide housing and sustainance for these large numbers.
> 
> And once they settle in, chances they go back is zero .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians who fled Putin's mobilization speak out
> 
> 
> Huge lines of traffic have formed at Russia's borders as Russians seek to get out, after Putin calls for nationwide draft for war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians who fled Putin's mobilization speak out​Huge lines of traffic have formed at borders as Russians seek to get out.
> ByPatrick Reevell
> September 27, 2022, 4:26 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2:55
> 
> Fears of escalation mount amid Russian war in Ukraine
> Fears of escalation mount amid Russian war in Ukraine
> With escalating resistance across Russia to Putin’s new military draft, thousands have taken to the streets to protest.
> 
> 
> Tens of thousands of Russians continue to try to flee the country, fearful of being caught up in the military mobilization ordered by president Vladimir Putin last week to replenish his forces in Ukraine.
> Miles-long lines of traffic have formed at border crossings with some neighboring countries amid the exodus, as Russians pack exit routes, worried the government might soon impose further restrictions on military age men leaving.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This satellite image provided by Maxar Technologies on Sept. 26, 2022, shows an overview of the traffic jam near the Russia border with Georgia on Sept. 25, 2022, after Russian President Vladamir Putin annou...
> Maxar Technologies via AP
> Officials in Kazakhstan, which borders Russia to the south, said 98,000 Russians have crossed into their country since Putin announced the mobilization last Wednesday. Georgia's interior ministry told ABC News Tuesday that 100,000 had entered its territory in the past few days. Tens of thousands more have left via other countries, including Finland and Mongolia. The European Union's border service said 66,000 Russians had entered the bloc over the past week, 30% more than the week before.
> MORE: Wait reaches 40 to 50 hours as people attempt to flee into Georgia to avoid draft: Report​
> Russians began fleeing the country within hours of Putin's ordering what he called a "partial" mobilization to call-up 300,000 men in an effort to reverse the course of his faltering war in Ukraine. In reality, experts say there are little restrictions on who can be drafted and there are widespread reports of men being mobilized regardless of their eligibility.
> Although the mobilization for now is officially meant to apply only to those with some military experience, many fear the criteria could be expanded and that the government could block military age men from leaving the country. Men subject to the draft are barred from leaving the country and widespread reports are emerging of men with military experience being turned back from borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians wait and lineup to get Kazakhstan's INN in a public service center in Almaty, Kazakhstan, on Sept. 27, 2022.
> Vladimir Tretyakov/NUR.KZ via AP
> At the Verkhny Lars crossing where Russia borders Georgia, a line of hundreds of cars has formed, stretching back around 12 miles, according to journalists there, with thousands of people waiting, some sleeping in their cars. The BBC reported 2,500 cars were currently in the line, citing Russia's customs service.
> Russian authorities on Tuesday confirmed that Russian troops with armored vehicles had set up a checkpoint at the crossing to turn back those subject to the call-up and were handing out draft papers there. Officials said a mobile enlistment office had also been set up at the border crossing.
> Kazakhstan, which has a nearly 5,000 mile-long border with Russia and a relaxed entry regime, has become a magnet for those leaving, with border crossings swamped. A 37-year-old man who entered Kazakhstan Monday near the Oral-Uralsk crossing said the line of traffic waiting at one checkpoint point now stretched nearly 20 miles.
> "There's simply a hellish line -- it's endless. And moreover at all checkpoints," the man, a manager from Tver, a city just outside Moscow, said by phone. He asked to remain anonymous for fear of punishment by the Russian authorities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People ride bicycles along a queue of vehicles at the Verkhny Lars checkpoint in North Ossetia, Russia on the border to Georgia, on Sept. 27, 2022. Around 3.5 thousand cars are queueing at the checkpoint t...
> Yelena Afonina/TASS via ZUMA Press
> The man said he had spent 20 hours by road to reach the border from Moscow and was now in the border city of Uralsk, on the Kazakhstan side. Although he is currently not subject to the draft because he has no military experience, he said he had still decided to flee because he feared the borders being closed soon and did not believe in fighting against Ukraine.
> 
> 
> Iranians are the most selfish b***t*ds , like their Saudi brethren.
> 
> These drones are useless against Israel and they know it, so they never used it once. Instead they let Hamas attack Israel with projectiles that are intercepted but then in the counter-fire Palestinians civilians get slaughtered every time. This is Iran's strength.
> 
> So their strength is to brain wash and provide substandard weapons to groups that will stand up against Israel except they end up getting slaughtered: in Lebanon, Gaza, and more recently Syria.
> 
> But their supremacy is against Saudi Arabia where they can do some damage. Of course the entire Saudi military apparatus is as retarded as their ability to conduct intelligence: the joke of the century to murder your own citizen in your consulate that is almost always under surveiilance by your host country.


Those Iran made drones are too few in numbers, too small in size for payloads. They do suicide attacks like the russians do terror attacks against Ukraine infra. They may have some psychological affects. In bigger pictures those drones won’t change anything on battlefields.
Ukraine pressures the west to deliver anti drone defense, once delivered those drones would be useless. On the other hand Iran economy and diplomatic standings will be damaged for few rubble from Putin. As said, dumb.
That’s what you get when the fate of country is in the hands of fanatics.


----------



## Bengal71

Paul2 said:


> If it uses commercial GPS, it should be susceptible to simplest GPS jamming. US can actually just turn off civilian GPS over Ukraine.



There is also GLONAS which is Russian. Besides the drones may have gyro as well.

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## jhungary

Ukrainian Flag hoisted over Kup'yans'k-Vuzlovyi​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574832786258759685
Ukrainian had expanded the beachhead South over East Kupiansk. 

For those who do not know, or can't read tactical situation, you need that town to protect the flank of Ukrainian troop moving toward Svatove along P07, my guess is they are going to take Pishchane and Kyslivka next. Then it will start challenging Svatove itself.

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians tortured prisoner playing ABBA 24 hours a day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The west uses Heavy Metal on advance interrogation, but seems like no Heavy Working band want to work with Russia and they have to use ABBA's Mamma Mia sound track......Do they know?


Damn. I would rather die than listen to that song all day



The SC said:


> Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council:
> 
> I repeat..we will use nuclear to defend Russia..this is not a hoax
> 
> View attachment 883154
> 
> @US_World1


Holy shit he looks like Nigel Farage


----------



## thetutle

"Putin plays his geopolitics very cleverly". March 2022. Nigel Farage.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> Ukrainian Flag hoisted over Kup'yans'k-Vuzlovyi​
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574832786258759685
> Ukrainian had expanded the beachhead South over East Kupiansk.
> 
> For those who do not know, or can't read tactical situation, you need that town to protect the flank of Ukrainian troop moving toward Svatove along P07, my guess is they are going to take Pishchane and Kyslivka next. Then it will start challenging Svatove itself.



Russians are still concentrating their efforts (without much success for MONTHS) on the Bakhmut front while they are being flanked in the north by the Ukrainians. Russians are very smart if you ask me.

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## Dalit

dbc said:


> Probably made less than 10 posts in total on this thread. Hardly hours upon hours.
> Have you given up hope on Putin bringing immeasurable pain to your country and fellow Dutch nationals?



There is a sizeable portion of the European population that would rather make peace with Russia. You are ill informed.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575009120423649280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575020696446521344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575002482115485698


----------



## thetutle

Dalit said:


> There is a sizeable portion of the European population that would rather make peace with Russia. You are ill informed.


Also some support isis, but they have no power.

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## jhungary

Primus said:


> Damn. I would rather die than listen to that song all day
> 
> 
> Holy shit he looks like Nigel Farage


Well, they said the entire soundtrack, not just that song all day....

But then this is probably the first time I heard anyone using Mamma Mia for torturing......



Vergennes said:


> Russians are still concentrating their efforts (without much success for MONTHS) on the Bakhmut front while they are being flanked in the north by the Ukrainians. Russians are very smart if you ask me.


Well, I would say that but I have been saying this for the last 7 months after the war begin, there are no logic on this war for Russia what-so-ever, it's like they point to a place in Ukraine on the map and told their army to go get it. 

There are neither Tactical nor Strategical consideration applies to Russia on this war. None.

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> Well, they said the entire soundtrack, not just that song all day....
> 
> But then this is probably the first time I heard anyone using Mamma Mia for torturing......


I hate ABBA in general. I feel sorry for those POWs that have to undergo said torture.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Well, they said the entire soundtrack, not just that song all day....


I could handle that soundtrack and song. weeks maybe. On the other hand any queen song or doors song, particularly bohemian rhapsody and I would crack very fast.


----------



## _Nabil_

aviator_fan said:


> Putin will be the only leader in history that created war refugees outside and inside his country: first the rich left, and now the able bodied younger ones leaving.
> 
> Yes I know, we can't/shouldn't believe these numbers, because Russia has it together and we should follow Twitter handles that promote a Russia only view because if Russian's said anything against, they would be arrested and jailed.
> 
> But I will trust the quotes from Govt officials in Georgia, Kasakhastan that are quoted here and have to provide housing and sustainance for these large numbers.
> 
> And once they settle in, chances they go back is zero .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians who fled Putin's mobilization speak out
> 
> 
> Huge lines of traffic have formed at Russia's borders as Russians seek to get out, after Putin calls for nationwide draft for war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians who fled Putin's mobilization speak out​Huge lines of traffic have formed at borders as Russians seek to get out.
> ByPatrick Reevell
> September 27, 2022, 4:26 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2:55
> 
> Fears of escalation mount amid Russian war in Ukraine
> Fears of escalation mount amid Russian war in Ukraine
> With escalating resistance across Russia to Putin’s new military draft, thousands have taken to the streets to protest.
> 
> 
> Tens of thousands of Russians continue to try to flee the country, fearful of being caught up in the military mobilization ordered by president Vladimir Putin last week to replenish his forces in Ukraine.
> Miles-long lines of traffic have formed at border crossings with some neighboring countries amid the exodus, as Russians pack exit routes, worried the government might soon impose further restrictions on military age men leaving.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This satellite image provided by Maxar Technologies on Sept. 26, 2022, shows an overview of the traffic jam near the Russia border with Georgia on Sept. 25, 2022, after Russian President Vladamir Putin annou...
> Maxar Technologies via AP
> Officials in Kazakhstan, which borders Russia to the south, said 98,000 Russians have crossed into their country since Putin announced the mobilization last Wednesday. Georgia's interior ministry told ABC News Tuesday that 100,000 had entered its territory in the past few days. Tens of thousands more have left via other countries, including Finland and Mongolia. The European Union's border service said 66,000 Russians had entered the bloc over the past week, 30% more than the week before.
> MORE: Wait reaches 40 to 50 hours as people attempt to flee into Georgia to avoid draft: Report​
> Russians began fleeing the country within hours of Putin's ordering what he called a "partial" mobilization to call-up 300,000 men in an effort to reverse the course of his faltering war in Ukraine. In reality, experts say there are little restrictions on who can be drafted and there are widespread reports of men being mobilized regardless of their eligibility.
> Although the mobilization for now is officially meant to apply only to those with some military experience, many fear the criteria could be expanded and that the government could block military age men from leaving the country. Men subject to the draft are barred from leaving the country and widespread reports are emerging of men with military experience being turned back from borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians wait and lineup to get Kazakhstan's INN in a public service center in Almaty, Kazakhstan, on Sept. 27, 2022.
> Vladimir Tretyakov/NUR.KZ via AP
> At the Verkhny Lars crossing where Russia borders Georgia, a line of hundreds of cars has formed, stretching back around 12 miles, according to journalists there, with thousands of people waiting, some sleeping in their cars. The BBC reported 2,500 cars were currently in the line, citing Russia's customs service.
> Russian authorities on Tuesday confirmed that Russian troops with armored vehicles had set up a checkpoint at the crossing to turn back those subject to the call-up and were handing out draft papers there. Officials said a mobile enlistment office had also been set up at the border crossing.
> Kazakhstan, which has a nearly 5,000 mile-long border with Russia and a relaxed entry regime, has become a magnet for those leaving, with border crossings swamped. A 37-year-old man who entered Kazakhstan Monday near the Oral-Uralsk crossing said the line of traffic waiting at one checkpoint point now stretched nearly 20 miles.
> "There's simply a hellish line -- it's endless. And moreover at all checkpoints," the man, a manager from Tver, a city just outside Moscow, said by phone. He asked to remain anonymous for fear of punishment by the Russian authorities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People ride bicycles along a queue of vehicles at the Verkhny Lars checkpoint in North Ossetia, Russia on the border to Georgia, on Sept. 27, 2022. Around 3.5 thousand cars are queueing at the checkpoint t...
> Yelena Afonina/TASS via ZUMA Press
> The man said he had spent 20 hours by road to reach the border from Moscow and was now in the border city of Uralsk, on the Kazakhstan side. Although he is currently not subject to the draft because he has no military experience, he said he had still decided to flee because he feared the borders being closed soon and did not believe in fighting against Ukraine.
> 
> 
> Iranians are the most selfish b***t*ds , like their Saudi brethren.
> 
> These drones are useless against Israel and they know it, so they never used it once. Instead they let Hamas attack Israel with projectiles that are intercepted but then in the counter-fire Palestinians civilians get slaughtered every time. This is Iran's strength.
> 
> So their strength is to brain wash and provide substandard weapons to groups that will stand up against Israel except they end up getting slaughtered: in Lebanon, Gaza, and more recently Syria.
> 
> But their supremacy is against Saudi Arabia where they can do some damage. Of course the entire Saudi military apparatus is as retarded as their ability to conduct intelligence: the joke of the century to murder your own citizen in your consulate that is almost always under surveiilance by your host country.


Now desertion is glorified 😁 what's this woke attitude in the west and in westerns minds ???

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## kuge

any updates on the referendum?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575046440879267840

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## Broccoli

Dalit said:


> There is a sizeable portion of the European population that would rather make peace with Russia. You are ill informed.



Where? Maybe among Putin's supporters but all polls show that European support Ukrainian fight against Russian imperialism.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575037643632492544


----------



## ZeGerman

Broccoli said:


> Where? Maybe among Putin's supporters but all polls show that European support Ukrainian fight against Russian imperialism.


Good source against all the russian propaganda claiming otherwise:








Public opinion on the war in Ukraine


Public Opinion at a Glance newsletters present a comprehensive overview on data published both on the EU level and in the Member States, drawing on available and published surveys.



www.europarl.europa.eu





There is a significant and persistent support for ukraine shown in polls. 
Begin september even weapon deliveries (which is the most controversial for pacifistic europe) has a heavy majority of 68% for and 26% against. 

After ukraine showed it could beat russia back…and the annexation sham election…I expect these numbers to be even higher.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575046440879267840


In iran women are facing regime police and gunfire for more freedom. 

In russia everyone stays quiet when their ukranian “brothers” are ethnically cleansed and murdered/tortured. 90% support putin…only to run away when there is risk to themselves. 
What to do with them? Added risk being that in X years..Putin could use “protecting russian speakers” to annex the rest of Georgia…

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575037072339271680

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## FuturePAF

A very damning video. No wonder hundreds of thousands of men are fleeing Russia. Everyone knows the war is a meat grinder, it’s the Russian way of war. Even these nationalist hosts don’t believe in it, and just want to send ethnic minorities and others they consider second class citizens to die in Putin’s Folly.

At least many if not most of the young men who ran away opposed the war or didn’t actively promote it like the guy in the following video


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574865224108220423

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575070757092089856

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575070757092089856



A larger picture :

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## Primus

FuturePAF said:


> A very damning video. No wonder hundreds of thousands of men are fleeing Russia. Everyone knows the war is a meat grinder, it’s the Russian way of war. Even these nationalist hosts don’t believe in it, and just want to send ethnic minorities and others they consider second class citizens to die in Putin’s Folly.
> 
> At least many if not most of the young men who ran away opposed the war or didn’t actively promote it like the guy in the following video
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574865224108220423


Everyone is fine with the draft and support it until it is time for them to be drafted

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## FuturePAF

Primus said:


> Everyone is fine with the draft and support it until it is time for them to be drafted


The ethical people are protesting or just keeping quiet because they know they are powerless.

There was a young Russian guy being interviewed that said it was either ten or fifteen years in jail or go to Ukraine and kill people, don’t remember what happened to him. I can’t find the video but it’s from yesterday.


----------



## Signalian

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575009120423649280
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575020696446521344
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575002482115485698


The annihilation of convoy is massive damage caused if they were carrying supplies.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575054315995029504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574894612224671744

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574964430877913090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575083811766865920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575069436440023040

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575054315995029504


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572515791148552192

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575052932940439552


kuge said:


> any updates on the referendum?



It is finished.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572515791148552192


Germany held a referendum in moscow. 99% wanted to join the german state.

We now have the right to use nukes to defend germany against russian attackers of our moscow province. 



On a serious note, this is nuclear blackmail, and hollow one at that. 
It is time to crush russia till they **** off out of the sovereign state of ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Germany held a referendum in moscow. 99% wanted to join the german state.
> 
> We now have the right to use nukes to defend germany against russian attackers of our moscow province.
> 
> 
> 
> On a serious note, this is nuclear blackmail, and hollow one at that.
> It is time to crush russia till they **** off out of the sovereign state of ukraine.



Russians are not ethnic Germans. Why should they want to join Germany?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574569153880530953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574960436239249409

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukraine has 36 million people (2019 census - 1 million people lost in lands lost since February) compared to Russia has 147 million people (2021 census). As Robert the Bruce said in Braveheart (1995). Fighting these odds is rage, not courage.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575045406807191553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575093650421587968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575080961162719233

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575097921464586241


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575002440868544513

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575106325834780674

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575102546368417794


----------



## Wood

So the only way for Ukraine to survive this war is by increasing the body count with Russian reservists to a point where Putin's authority is domestically challenged. That is perhaps years away and a lot can change (in terms of western support) if Tucker Carlson's homeboy gets to White House again.  


FuturePAF said:


> The ethical people are protesting or just keeping quiet because they know they are powerless.
> 
> There was a young Russian guy being interviewed that said it was either ten or fifteen years in jail or go to Ukraine and kill people, don’t remember what happened to him. I can’t find the video but it’s from yesterday.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575104696158916609

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## srshkmr

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575106325834780674
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575102546368417794


The grenade exploded right on their feet, and they walked it off, was it just a stun grenade?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575103229045592064


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

jhungary said:


> Well, they said the entire soundtrack, not just that song all day....
> 
> But then this is probably the first time I heard anyone using Mamma Mia for torturing......



When I was studying, I had this on repeat in the background.






so I can probable handle Mamma Mia for days.

The TV Series Scorpion S04E05 has a subplot where a detective buys a very cheap car and one of the big problems is that a cassette tape is stuck, and plays Gloria all the time.






Luckily he gets involved in a crash, and the tape pops out.


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council:
> 
> I repeat..we will use nuclear to defend Russia..this is not a hoax
> 
> View attachment 883154
> 
> @US_World1


This guy is funny. When he wakes up the first thing he does is nuking everything around him. Then he complains why the world is Russophobia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575123165688233990


----------



## thetutle

He is also of the view that using nukes would result in total destruction of russian militant in Ukraine.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575116146876948480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575108027078021121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575045406807191553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574984993390047232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575132538338672640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575123642404438017


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575130105038471171

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## Viet

Ilja Medwedew loves the west while his father Dmitri Medwedew wants to nuke it.

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## The SC

Soldiers of the "Northern" and "Southern" units of the Russian Guards in the Chechen Republic repelled a surprise attack by the Ukrainian army on one of the most difficult sections of the line of contact

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575075959036055552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575123017826533376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575120982712401922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575114691562577924

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## Viet

Same for Elizaweta Peskowa, the daughter of Dmitri Peskow, the nuke maker of Moscow.
Just weird. Moscow political elites send their children to the west while they want to nuke it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575113805213753344


Viet said:


> This guy is funny. When he wakes up the first thing he does is nuking everything around him. Then he complains why the world is Russophobia.


We should understand his statement in general terms; that Russia will use Nuclear weapons in case of an existential threat..that is for real.. but the statement in the case of Ukraine is only to terrorize the West..mostly Europe.. and it is not real..


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575090174337622021

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575062184299663360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575073528440684550

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575064771728408577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575065637960830976

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## ziaulislam

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575113805213753344
> 
> We should understand his statement in general terms; that Russia will use Nuclear weapons in case of an existential threat..that is for real.. but the statement in the case of Ukraine is only to terrorize the West..mostly Europe.. and it is not real..


Question is once Russia officially annex those regions capture them and declare cease fire what will happen then .will ukraine continue to fight and how will west respond..after annexation it's no going back


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575144438434861057
Russian cyber operations have been a huge failure.

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575113805213753344
> 
> We should understand his statement in general terms; that Russia will use Nuclear weapons in case of an existential threat..that is for real.. but the statement in the case of Ukraine is only to terrorize the West..mostly Europe.. and it is not real..


Not real? He is just mad. He threatens with nukes because he realizes Russia conventional army is badly beaten by Ukraine. Russia is naked.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575152500826685441

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## That Guy

ziaulislam said:


> Question is once Russia officially annex those regions capture them and declare cease fire what will happen then .will ukraine continue to fight and how will west respond..after annexation it's no going back


An act of annexation is an act of war, the Russians can declare a ceasefire all they want, the Ukrainians will keep fighting, and since the world (including Russia's closest allies) don't recognize Russia's fake referendums, they'll continue to supply Ukraine with weapons and cash.

In other words, Putin realizes that he's fucked and is trying to save face by annexing the amount he managed to get. It won't work because the Ukrainians have shown that Putin's foolish strategy and desperation have made it possible for Ukraine to reverse Russian gains quickly.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

That Guy said:


> An act of annexation is an act of war, the Russians can declare a ceasefire all they want, the Ukrainians will keep fighting, and since the world (including Russia's closest allies) don't recognize Russia's fake referendums, they'll continue to supply Ukraine with weapons and cash.
> 
> In other words, Putin realizes that he's fucked and is trying to save face by annexing the amount he managed to get. It won't work because the Ukrainians have shown that Putin's foolish strategy and desperation have made it possible for Ukraine to reverse Russian gains quickly.



Then the final solution is the death of every Ukrainian. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Even if every Ukrainian dies from war, Russia still have 75% population left assuming a 1 to 1 kill ratio.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575155110929367043

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575121985574785024

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## maverick1977

The possibility of tactical nuclear weapons is becoming a reality everyday


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575121985574785024



Only cowards leave. The ones who remain are war mongers.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575142361725796360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575141961471823874

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574964430877913090
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575083811766865920
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575069436440023040


I don’t see any nato troops


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians are not ethnic Germans. Why should they want to join Germany?


It was a joke like all your posts



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukrainian soldiers are NATO troops.


So they secretly joined nato
Come on man 🤦🏿‍♂️


----------



## jhungary

A.P. Richelieu said:


> When I was studying, I had this on repeat in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so I can probable handle Mamma Mia for days.
> 
> The TV Series Scorpion S04E05 has a subplot where a detective buys a very cheap car and one of the big problems is that a casette tape is stuck, and plays Gloria all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily he gets involved in a crash, and the tape pops out.


I don't have problem with ABBA, or any smooth pop. I only have problem with songs that very repetitive, high pitch, exactly like this song






Rumour has it, Rockstar put this song everywhere in GTAV to annoy the hell out of their player........


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> So they secretly joined nato
> Come on man 🤦🏿‍♂️



Ukraine is major non NATO ally and would have been NATO country if Yanks aren't such cowards.


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> So the only way for Ukraine to survive this war is by increasing the body count with Russian reservists to a point where Putin's authority is domestically challenged. That is perhaps years away and a lot can change (in terms of western support) if Tucker Carlson's homeboy gets to White House again.


US support to Ukraine is by-Partisan. And only a few of those issue are bi-partisan, it will take 42 Tucker Carlson in US senate to overturn this policy in the US senate. 

And if you had followed what I said since the Mobilisation, Russia is doing this so they can replace the troop that had been fighting since Feb and give them a breather, that only mean one thing, those troop are going to be retrain and regroup and possibly make one big push sometime next year. Most likely during the summer.

What Ukrainian need to do is to train up their troop, get more weapon, and increase their strength of their fortification. That way most definitely able to defeat that offensive. What Ukraine need to do is to consolidate their gain and prepare for a general Russian attack. And once that offensive is defeated, then there will be no fight with Russia, either they will need to use nuke or surrender.



Viet said:


> This guy is funny. When he wakes up the first thing he does is nuking everything around him. Then he complains why the world is Russophobia.


Well, as a detective, I kind of used to all kind of people buff.

When I hear words like "I am serious", "I am not bluffing", "I will (or will not) do it", "This is not a joke/hoax", "I swear to god" 

I tend to just disregard what those people say because usually a buffer will say they are not buffing. And if Russia is serious on nuking Ukraine, they would have not say that, and silently move their warhead into ready position. Because if you want to do something, you go do it, when you try to draw attention on someone, that mostly mean you are not serious.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575159389908045828


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575127200436822018


----------



## Primus

jhungary said:


> I don't have problem with ABBA, or any smooth pop. I only have problem with songs that very repetitive, high pitch, exactly like this song
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rumour has it, Rockstar put this song everywhere in GTAV to annoy the hell out of their player........


Ayo wtf is that music video?

Also w song


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575131849747308545


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575153239015792640


----------



## MeFishToo

thetutle said:


> You down understand man. Russian can not lose.


Ukraine is supported by NATO. They wont allow Russia to win this war. So, Russia is forced to somehow retreat and pretend its a victory.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575162237660061697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575162608952426498


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Ukraine is supported by NATO. They wont allow Russia to win this war. So, Russia is forces to somehow retreat and pretend its a victory.



The US allowed Communists to take over Vietnam and Taliban to take over Afghanistan. American support is not forever and not unlimited. Biden won't be president forever. When GOP gets into power, support for Ukraine will be gone.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575148197697159168

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575080605167276032

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## Soldier35

In Ukraine, the autumn thaw began, the roads become impassable and armored vehicles begin to get stuck. In the video, two American-made International MaxxPro armored vehicles pull another International MaxxPro armored car out of the mud.






A column of Ukrainian YPR-765 armored personnel carriers came under fire from the Russian Airborne Forces. Paratroopers of the 76th Guards Air Assault Division of Russia took part in the battle in the Kherson direction. The fire was fired from 30-mm cannons of BMD-4 landing vehicles.






Video of the work of the road troops of Russia, the work of the road commandant units in Ukraine.






Ukrainian servicemen showed the engine compartment of the BM "Oplot" tank. The date and location of the shooting is unknown. Ukrainian tank T-84 BM "Oplot" was put into service in 2009, the tank was created on the basis of the Ukrainian tank T-84. Now the Ukrainian army is armed with 6 BM "Oplot" tanks, also 49 tanks under the BM "Oplot-T" index were delivered to Thailand, several tanks are in the USA for research. The tank is equipped with a 125 mm gun. The tank is equipped with a 6TD-2E engine with a capacity of 1200 liters. With. and is capable of running on gasoline, kerosene and diesel fuel. The engine has reduced smoke and exhaust emissions.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575160824142139393
M1299s coming to the US Army next year.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575164495990661125

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## jhungary

Primus said:


> Ayo wtf is that music video?
> 
> Also w song


This is the most annoying song ever. 

It was featured in the game "Grand Theft Auto"

And yes, as a part Hispanic Person, I apologise for bringing you these type of music...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Primus

jhungary said:


> This is the most annoying song ever.
> 
> It was featured in the game "Grand Theft Auto"
> 
> And yes, as a part Hispanic Person, I apologise for bringing you these type of music...


Ayo I loved listening to this song on GTA V. It's my most favourite track in the entire game. El sondito and Bugatti. Best tracks in the game


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575178021341904911
US to provide an additional 18 HIMARS

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575181699297968128
It will also include 12 Titan counter UAS systems and 300 Trucks and SUVs.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575178021341904911
> US to provide an additional 18 HIMARS



HIMARS sucks compared to Tornado-S. HIMARS compared to Tornado-S is like M16 compared to M14.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575183751344099330

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575171308476076032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575169649754640386

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575168253575299081


----------



## ziaulislam

That Guy said:


> An act of annexation is an act of war, the Russians can declare a ceasefire all they want, the Ukrainians will keep fighting, and since the world (including Russia's closest allies) don't recognize Russia's fake referendums, they'll continue to supply Ukraine with weapons and cash.
> 
> In other words, Putin realizes that he's fucked and is trying to save face by annexing the amount he managed to get. It won't work because the Ukrainians have shown that Putin's foolish strategy and desperation have made it possible for Ukraine to reverse Russian gains quickly.


They can keep fighting..like they did after Russia annexed Crimea.
Ukriane is only fighting because Europe and USA is helping..they won't forever


----------



## ziaulislam

maverick1977 said:


> The possibility of tactical nuclear weapons is becoming a reality everyday


Ita going to be fair game once Russia officially annex parts of Ukraine and call for ceasefire 

Russia is going to capture the remiabiny10-15 donbass call it a day.

Ukriane would risk a nuclear reaction if they still wish to fight


----------



## dbc

Nord Stream saboteur caught in the act


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575115146707484679

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575193454665428992

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Basically you need a threat of a nuclear attack if you do not comply with unreasonable terms.


since bush USA put Iran in the list of the countries it do a first nuclear strike on isn't that threat enough for you
Information we gave IAEA was used for assassinating our scientists isn't that threat enough for you


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## The SC




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## FuturePAF

Wood said:


> So the only way for Ukraine to survive this war is by increasing the body count with Russian reservists to a point where Putin's authority is domestically challenged. That is perhaps years away and a lot can change (in terms of western support) if Tucker Carlson's homeboy gets to White House again.


The next 12 months will see Europe either manage or fail to manage its needs away from Russia. The US will also press Europe to help Ukraine for Europe’s own sake, and the world will press Russia to end the world due to the disruption of exports of vital raw materials out of Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

New weapons package, but these are future procurements, not immediate deliveries

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> The next 12 months will see Europe either manage or fail to manage its needs away from Russia. The US will also press Europe to help Ukraine for Europe’s own sake, and the world will press Russia to end the world due to the disruption of exports of vital raw materials out of Russia.


More likely we will see whether Europe will fall apart in 3 months, if they can last thru Jan 2023, then there is no way Russia will bring down EU. Because by next year, the inflation would have been subsided and gas dependence would drop.

Bear in mind most of European problem stem from irresponsible fiscal policy, not really related to Russian War in Ukraine.

My Prediction on this war will be there are going to be medium to massive gain for Ukrainian before Winter. Due to the fact that Russia is not in a position to defend their territories, the mobilised troop would be used to "Hold The Line" in occupied Ukrainian territories, and Ukraine will try to capitalise on their lack of discipline and training to gain more land all the way up to winter. Then fighting is going to subside.

Russia is going to pull their best troop off the line and rotate them to the rear. Then Russia is going to do one more major push, possibly nationwide push, sometime next year after the combat ready troop regroup and retrained. The war will end one way or the other because either Russia succeed on the push and capture all their strategic goal (I would say the complete occupation of the 4 Oblasts not Kyiv) and then declare themselves had won the war and ask for a peace talk. Or they failed to do it and exhausted the last bit of their combat power, and they will either have to pull back in general term or use nuke.

As for nuke, I just don't see them using it. You can already see the push back from Russian just on the Partial Mobilisation alone, now will the rest of the Russian want to die for Putin ambition? I would say if Putin was scare to call a mobilisation before, he would be even more scared if he were to decide to use nuke, if he even hint at that, I will say there is a pretty good chance Russian Military will revolt and take over.

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## zectech

The whole globe knows this except China, Iran, Syria, Venezuela and other fools.






Putin is on Team Trump and Trump is on Team Putin. That means both want to destroy the EU.

“We are [for the] first time in the history in a situation where the president of the United States and [the] president of Russia seem to share the same view on Europe: the weaker, the better, because they think that it’s better for their own country, which is obviously not right,” Katainen, a former prime minister of Finland, said.



https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/445055-top-official-accuses-trump-putin-of-trying-to-weaken-the-eu/



And Trump is a PNACer deepstater. Meaning both cia Dems and cia Republicans are on board to weaken Europe. Using their tool Putin. The longer this war continues and the longer both Putin is dragging this along and US with their only 16 HIMARS and 2 new ADS, and a dozen of this and a hundred of that, to string along Ukraine without defeating Russia decisively... the worse for the EU. The main enemy is the EU, as I have said many times. Destroy the euro and destroy the European economy is the mission of Trump/Putin.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575174026732789762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575229791527383040


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## dbc

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575193454665428992


This is hilarious 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575146149761241090

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575202690380222465


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## That Guy

ziaulislam said:


> They can keep fighting..like they did after Russia annexed Crimea.
> Ukriane is only fighting because Europe and USA is helping..they won't forever


Ukraine didn't have much of a military during the Crimean crisis, and got steamrolled because of it.

Now they have arguably one of the most powerful and experienced armies in all of Europe.

Against Russia, an eternal rival, the US and EU will continue to support Ukraine, especially since all they gotta do is give material support without having to send a single citizen of their own to their deaths.

The fact that Russian is losing major battles and entire chunks of occupied territories is evidence enough that the US smells blood and won't stop until Russia is forced into retreating.

Putin is delaying the inevitable, Russia will no longer be considered a great power after this war and will be relegated to regional power. They will 100% become a junior partner to China.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The 4 rebel leaders have arrived in Moscow.


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## That Guy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Then the final solution is the death of every Ukrainian. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Even if every Ukrainian dies from war, Russia still have 75% population left assuming a 1 to 1 kill ratio.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575155110929367043


I've told you hundreds of times to never quote me. Stop it.

Take your clown opinions elsewhere.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575202148668698625


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## PakFactor

That Guy said:


> I've told you hundreds of times to never quote me. Stop it.
> 
> Take your clown opinions elsewhere.



Once you in his list, pretend the rape wouldn't stop. Lol, half of the PDF is going through it.


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## kingQamaR

FuturePAF said:


> The next 12 months will see Europe either manage or fail to manage its needs away from Russia. The US will also press Europe to help Ukraine for Europe’s own sake, and the world will press Russia to end the world due to the disruption of exports of vital raw materials out of Russia.



The entire European economy over the last half a century was built on the back of near unlimited, cheap, reliable energy from Russia. Even if Europe had started switching to alternative sources a decade ago, they would have been that much more expensive that it would have destroyed Europe's manufacturing industry anyway. Europe is bewitched by the green nonsense.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575244243790340096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575242233220997121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575239951582896128


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575230350137368576
The loss rate for Russia this month has been absurd.

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## KAL-EL

PakFactor said:


> Once you in his list, pretend the rape wouldn't stop. Lol, half of the PDF is going through it.



It's almost like getting the VIP treatment in a club.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575267798594600963

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575268097661042688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575269604309467137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575260821281771521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575261473491795968


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575256245187104776


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575252707211939842


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575276324163584000


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## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> More likely we will see whether Europe will fall apart in 3 months, if they can last thru Jan 2023, then there is no way Russia will bring down EU. Because by next year, the inflation would have been subsided and gas dependence would drop.
> 
> Bear in mind most of European problem stem from irresponsible fiscal policy, not really related to Russian War in Ukraine.
> 
> My Prediction on this war will be there are going to be medium to massive gain for Ukrainian before Winter. Due to the fact that Russia is not in a position to defend their territories, the mobilised troop would be used to "Hold The Line" in occupied Ukrainian territories, and Ukraine will try to capitalise on their lack of discipline and training to gain more land all the way up to winter. Then fighting is going to subside.
> 
> Russia is going to pull their best troop off the line and rotate them to the rear. Then Russia is going to do one more major push, possibly nationwide push, sometime next year after the combat ready troop regroup and retrained. The war will end one way or the other because either Russia succeed on the push and capture all their strategic goal (I would say the complete occupation of the 4 Oblasts not Kyiv) and then declare themselves had won the war and ask for a peace talk. Or they failed to do it and exhausted the last bit of their combat power, and they will either have to pull back in general term or use nuke.
> 
> As for nuke, I just don't see them using it. You can already see the push back from Russian just on the Partial Mobilisation alone, now will the rest of the Russian want to die for Putin ambition? I would say if Putin was scare to call a mobilisation before, he would be even more scared if he were to decide to use nuke, if he even hint at that, I will say there is a pretty good chance Russian Military will revolt and take over.


If Russia is really mobilizing a million men, their best bet is to take the remainder of the coastline, especially Odessa, ASAP. Linking up with and taking over all of Moldova and encircling the bulk of Ukraine from nearly all sides will leave them in fait accompli, and a better bargaining go position come Spring 2023. BTW, I’m surprised US aid since the start of the war is only $16 Billion and only a further $3 Billion between January 2021 and February 2022, plus the few billions in equipment from Europe. Ukraine has done so much with only $20-25 Billion.


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## The SC

FuturePAF said:


> If Russia is really mobilizing a million men, their best bet is to take the remainder of the coastline, especially Odessa, ASAP. Linking up with and taking over all of Moldova and encircling the bulk of Ukraine from nearly all sides will leave them in fait accompli, and a better bargaining go position come Spring 2023. BTW, I’m surprised US aid since the start of the war is only $16 Billion and only a further $3 Billion between January 2021 and February 2022, plus the few billions in equipment from Europe. Ukraine has done so much with only $20-25 Billion.


That is military aid only.. the total US aid up till now is $80 billion..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> That is military aid only.. the total US aid up till now is $80 billion..



US money printing is causing global inflation.

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## 925boy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575045406807191553
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575093650421587968
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575080961162719233


When he said this rubbish:





Did he mean "increase" or "RETURN"?


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## ziaulislam

FuturePAF said:


> If Russia is really mobilizing a million men, their best bet is to take the remainder of the coastline, especially Odessa, ASAP. Linking up with and taking over all of Moldova and encircling the bulk of Ukraine from nearly all sides will leave them in fait accompli, and a better bargaining go position come Spring 2023. BTW, I’m surprised US aid since the start of the war is only $16 Billion and only a further $3 Billion between January 2021 and February 2022, plus the few billions in equipment from Europe. Ukraine has done so much with only $20-25 Billion.


Russians objective have been defined now








It's going to get greenish areas and declare a annexation and cease fire in my guess





Tactical withdrawal or Ukraine success..you decide.. holding Lyman walking into Kramatorsk and advancing towards zaoprizhzhia will decitate the duration of the war


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575279570676244481


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## ziaulislam

Per western analyst Russians are still slowly but surely advancing in donbas region despite losing ground(tactical withdrawal if u r Russian) in kharkiv


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, SEPTEMBER 28​Sep 28, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Karolina Hird, Katherine Lawlor, Grace Mappes, Riley Bailey, and Frederick W. Kagan
September 28, 7:30pm ET *​*Click here to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian milbloggers discussed Ukrainian gains around Lyman with increased concern on September 28, suggesting that Russian forces in this area may face imminent defeat.[1] *Several Russian milbloggers and prominent military correspondents claimed that Ukrainian troops advanced west, north, and northeast of Lyman and are working to complete the envelopment of Russian troops in Lyman and along the northern bank of the Siverskyi Donets River in this area.[2] Russian mibloggers stated that Ukrainian troops are threatening Russian positions and lines of communication that support the Lyman grouping. The collapse of the Lyman pocket will likely be highly consequential to the Russian grouping in northern Donetsk and western Luhansk oblasts and may allow Ukrainian troops to threaten Russian positions along the western Luhansk Oblast border and in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.
*Russian military leadership has failed to set information conditions for potentially imminent Russian defeat in Lyman. * The Russian Ministry of Defense has not addressed current Russian losses around Lyman or prepared for the collapse of this sector of the frontline, which will likely further reduce already-low Russian morale. Russian military authorities previously failed to set sufficient information conditions for Russian losses following the first stages of the Ukrainian counteroffensives in Kharkiv Oblast, devastating morale and leading to panic among Russian forces across the Eastern axis. The subsequent ire of the Russian nationalist information space likely played a role in driving the Kremlin to order partial mobilization in the days following Ukraine’s initial sweeping counteroffensive in a haphazard attempt to reinforce Russian lines. Future Ukrainian gains around critical areas in Donetsk and Luhansk Oblast may drive additional wedges between Russian nationalists and military leadership, and between Russian forces and their superiors.
*The Kremlin could temporarily postpone announcing the annexation of Russian-occupied Ukrainian territory to better prepare the Russian information space and administrative organization, although September 30 remains the most likely date for some kind of annexation announcement. *ISW forecasted on September 27 that Russian President Vladimir Putin will likely announce the Russian annexation of occupied Ukrainian territory on September 30 in his planned address to both houses of the Russian parliament.[3] The Russian Ministry of Defense announced on September 28 that Russia will “fulfill the aspirations of the residents of the LNR, DNR, Zaporizhia, and Kherson oblasts to be together with Russia” in the “near future.”[4] However, Russian State Duma speaker Vyacheslav Volodin announced on September 28 that the State Duma should hold its accession sessions to approve the annexation of occupied Ukrainian territory on October 3 and 4.[5] Latvian-based Russian-language opposition outlet _Meduza _quoted Kremlin sources on September 28 who claimed that the Kremlin decided ”not to rush things.” Those sources told _Meduza_ that ”the PR effect from [annexation] will be almost zero” due to broad dissatisfaction with partial mobilization in Russia.*[6]* _Meduza _reported that the Kremlin conducted a dissatisfactory closed public opinion poll that demonstrated broad Russian discontent and may be attempting to rectify public unhappiness with mobilization before announcing annexation. 
Russian-appointed occupation administration leaders of Kherson, Zaporizhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk Oblasts each shared an appeal to Russian President Vladimir Putin by September 28, asking Putin to recognize their sham referenda and welcome them to Russia.[7] The Russian occupation leaders of each oblast will likely meet with Putin in the coming days to present their requests. Putin could announce those performative accession negotiations, rather than final annexation, in his September 30 speech.
*Russian authorities continue to send newly-mobilized and undertrained recruits to directly reinforce severely degraded remnants of various units, including units that were previously considered to be Russia’s premier conventional fighting forces. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that newly-mobilized Russian men arrived to reinforce elements of the 1st Tank Regiment of the 2nd Motorized Rifle Division of the 1st Guards Tank Army in unspecified areas of Ukraine with no training at all.[8] Social media footage from September 27 shows a Russian soldier mobilized into the 1st Tank Regiment explaining that he will be sent to fight in Kherson Oblast within two days without any basic training, as ISW reported yesterday.[9] The 1st Guards Tank Army was considered Russia’s premier mechanized force prior to February 24, and that fact that its elements are being reinforced with poorly disciplined, untrained men is consistent with ISW’s previous assessments that even Russia’s most elite units have sustained substantial losses in Ukraine and are therefore increasingly degraded.[10] The addition of newly mobilized forces to elements of the 1st Guards Tank Army is unlikely to lend these units any decisive combat power.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian military leadership has likely failed to set information conditions for the potential defeat of the Russian grouping in Lyman, despite increasingly concerned discourse among Russian milbloggers regarding the potential for a Ukrainian envelopment of Lyman.*
*The Kremlin could temporarily postpone announcing the annexation of Russian-occupied Ukrainian territory to better prepare the Russian information space and administrative organization, although September 30 remains the most likely date for some kind of annexation announcement.*
*Russian authorities continue to send newly-mobilized and undertrained recruits to directly reinforce severely degraded remnants of various units, including units that were previously considered to be Russia’s premier conventional fighting forces.*
*Ukrainian forces likely continued to make significant gains around Lyman on September 28, advancing from the north along the Zelena Dolyna-Kolodiazi arc and from the southeast around Yampil.*
*Ukrainian military officials largely maintained operational silence regarding specific Ukrainian actions in Kherson Oblast on September 28 but stated that Ukrainian troops are continuing positional battles in unspecified locations to consolidate and improve their positions along the Southern Axis.*
*Russian forces continued unsuccessful ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast.*
*Russian military recruitment officials are openly contradicting the Kremlin’s publicly-stated guidelines for mobilization to meet quota requirements even as Kremlin propaganda is attempting to change the public perception of partial mobilization.*
*Russian authorities are beginning to restrict movement of Russian citizens into Russian border regions to cope with hundreds of thousands of Russian men attempting to flee the country.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Vovchansk-Kupyansk-Izyum-Lyman Line)*
*

*
Ukrainian forces likely continued to make significant gains around Lyman on September 28, advancing from the north along the Zelena Dolyna-Kolodiazi arc and from the southeast around Yampil. Geolocated combat footage corroborates claims made by Russian milbloggers that Ukrainians took control of Zelena Dolyna (15km north of Lyman) and pushed east to take control of Kolodiazi (11km northeast of Lyman).[11] Several Russian sources indicated that Ukrainian troops pushed southeast of Kolodiazi and are fighting on the outskirts of Torske, just 12km northeast of Lyman.[12] Russian milbloggers also claimed that Ukrainian troops accumulated near Yampil (13km southeast of Lyman) and broke through Russian defensive lines there to push towards Torske from the southwest.[13] Russian sources additionally discussed Ukrainian gains northwest of Lyman and claimed that Ukrainian troops are attacking Shandryholove, about 10km northwest of Lyman.[14] Geolocated footage shows that Ukrainian troops have liberated Novoselivka, just south of Shandryholove and 10km northwest of Lyman.[15] Several Russian milbloggers voiced escalated concern that Ukrainian forces are seeking to take control of the Svatove-Lyman road that is currently a critical ground line of communication (GLOC) for the Russian grouping in Lyman.[16]
Ukrainian troops also continued offensive operations around Kupyansk on September 28. Geolocated footage shows Ukrainian troops raising Ukrainian flags over Kivsharivka, about 10km southeast of Kupyansk.[17] Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian troops took control of the Kupyansk-Uzlovaya station, 8km southeast of Kupyansk on the outskirts of Kivsharivka.[18] Russian sources suggested that Ukrainian troops are attempting advances to the northeast of Kupyansk along the Pervshyi Lyman-Tavilzhanka line.[19] A prominent Russian military correspondent claimed that all Russian units entirely withdrew from Kupyansk on September 28, although it is unclear where those units are redeploying to.[20]
*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast) *
*

*
Ukrainian military officials largely maintained operational silence regarding specific Ukrainian actions in Kherson Oblast on September 28 but stated that Ukrainian troops are continuing positional battles in unspecified locations to consolidate and improve their positions along the Southern Axis.[21] Ukrainian military officials also reiterated that Ukrainian troops are continuing an interdiction campaign to target Russian logistics, military, and transportation assets, as well as concentration areas, in Kherson Oblast.[22] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command stated that Russian forces are pulling reserves from the Crimean direction to reinforce the current southern frontline against Ukrainian counteroffensive operations.[23]
Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Ukrainian forces hit two main areas in Kherson Oblast as part of Ukraine’s continuing interdiction campaign on September 27 and 28: around Kherson City and near Beryslav, about 70km east of Kherson City. Geolocated footage shows the aftermath of a reported Ukrainian HIMARS strike on Oleshky, 8km southeast of Kherson City.[24] Russian sources also posted imagery of the aftermath of a Ukrainian strike on Kherson Polytechnical College in Kherson City, where Russian troops reportedly were residing.[25] Ukrainian sources also stated that Ukrainian forces hit Russian concentration areas near Beryslav.[26]
Ukrainian sources reported that Ukrainian troops conducted limited ground maneuvers in western Kherson Oblast on September 27 and 28. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian troops repelled a Russian attack on Bezimenne, 15km southwest of Davydiv Brid and near the Inhulets River that runs along the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.[27] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command additionally noted that Russian troops attempted to attack Bezimenne from positions in Chkalove, 7km southeast of Bezimenne.[28] Russian sources discussed various Ukrainian troop rotations northwest of Kherson City near Posad-Pokrovske and in western Kherson Oblast near Andriivka.[29]
*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
*

*
Russian forces continued unsuccessful ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on September 28. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian attacks south of Bakhmut near Zaitseve, Mayorsk, Mykolaivka Druha, Odradivka, and Zalizne (all within 15km of Bakhmut), and west of Avdiivka near Pervomaiske.[30] A Russian source claimed that Wagner Group forces fought in Odradivka and advanced on Ukrainian positions in Zaitseve.[31] Chechen Republic Head Ramzan Kadyrov claimed that Chechen “Akhmat” special forces and other Russian and proxy forces control Spirne (25km northeast of Bakhmut) and repelled a Ukrainian ground attack on the settlement on September 28.[32] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Russian forces conducted failed ground assaults southwest of Donetsk City near Pobieda, Novomykhailivka, and Pavlivka.[33] A Russian source expressed continued concern that Ukrainian forces may launch ground attacks towards Vuhledar in the coming days.[34]
*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued routine artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole and in Mykolaiv and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts on September 28.[35] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck Mykolaiv City and Zaporizhzhia City.[36] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian heavy artillery and Grad rocket strikes damaged critical infrastructure in Nikopol, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.[37] Ukrainian sources also claimed that Ukrainian air defense systems shot down Russian Kh-59 cruise missiles over Kryvyi Rih, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, and Odesa on September 28.[38]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Russian military recruitment officials are openly contradicting the Kremlin’s publicly-stated guidelines for mobilization to meet quota requirements. Novosibirsk Oblast Military Commissar Yevgeny Kudryavtsev told a Siberian news outlet on September 28 that Russian officials will “naturally” mobilize men who are not reservists in order to meet military requirements.[39] Kudryavtsev said that commissars will start by mobilizing people with certain experience and within a certain age range, but that when that round of mobilization does not meet all of their requirements (likely referencing Kremlin-dictated quotas), commissars will then mobilize men with no military experience or who would violate other restrictions on mobilization. Those restrictions include current students, parents of four or more young children, retirees, and people with disabilities.
The Kremlin is likely ordering its officials to change the public perception of mass mobilization, however. The Russian governor of occupied Sevastopol, Mikhail Razvozhaev, announced on September 27 that he is taking personal interest in cases of mistakenly-mobilized men in Sevastopol and asserted that his administration will return mistakenly mobilized men to their homes.[40] The Kremlin’s media outlets and voices are increasingly sharing individual stories in which military recruitment centers released some men who were unfit for service following the involvement of local officials or with the help of Kremlin state media to suggest that errors are being corrected when called to the Kremlin’s attention, as ISW reported on September 26.[41] To that end, Kremlin propaganda outlet _RT_ announced that its charity ”We Will Continue to Act” will cover the stories of and support men who believe they have been wrongfully mobilized, an initial attempt at government accountability that the Kremlin will likely use to further accuse bureaucrats of incompetence for meeting quotas dictated by the Kremlin.[42] 
Russian authorities are beginning to restrict the movement of Russian citizens into Russian border regions to cope with hundreds of thousands of Russian men attempting to flee the country. The _Associated Press _reported that over 197,000 Russians have already fled through land borders to Georgia, Finland, Kazakhstan, and Mongolia between September 21 and 28, causing miles-long traffic jams at border crossings.[43] The governor of the Russian Republic of North Ossetia-Alania, Sergey Menyailo, declared a “high alert regime” on September 28 that restricted the entry of cars into North Ossetia, which borders Georgia. Menyailo also ordered the establishment of food, shelter, and hygiene facilities for citizens waiting in miles-long traffic jams at the Russian-Georgian border.[44] Russian State Duma Speaker Vyacheslav Volodin addressed rumors that unspecified entities required Russians who made it across the Georgian border to sign a document recognizing Russian aggression and occupation of Georgian territories. Volodin threatened all Russians who sign such documents with punishment if they ever return to Russia.[45] 
Russian occupation officials continued to set conditions to forcibly mobilize or conscript Ukrainian civilians in Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine. The People's Militias of the Russian proxy Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) shared information about stricter Russian penalties for desertion, insubordination, surrender, and avoiding mobilization on September 28.[46] The DNR militia called on its followers to “make up your minds—are you a defender of the motherland, or a deserter?” and warned that the penalties for desertion will be “significantly tightened” in line with Russian law as soon as the DNR joins Russia.[47] The DNR and LNR have forcibly mobilized their populations to varying degrees since 2014 and have not commented on whether their populations will be subject to Russian mobilization.
Ukraine’s National Resistance Center reported on September 28 that the heads of Kherson’s and Zaporizhia’s occupation administrations are planning the partial mobilization of Ukrainian civilians as soon as Russia annexes those oblasts.[48] However, Kherson Occupation Administration Head Vladimir Saldo alleged that no Kherson Oblast residents will be mobilized when Kherson Oblast joins Russia and that the oblast would provide only volunteer battalions to fight against Ukraine.[49] It remains unclear whether Saldo will remain in charge of Russia’s occupation of Kherson Oblast after the Kremlin annexes Kherson Oblast. The Ukrainian advisor to Ukraine’s Kherson Oblast Military Administration, Serhiy Klan, reported that Russian forces unexpectedly began allowing men between the ages of 18 and 35 to leave Kherson again on September 28 after closing the border to men of fighting age on September 25.[50] ISW had previously assessed that Russian forces may have prevented men of fighting age from fleeing occupied Ukraine to preserve forces for forced mobilization or conscription after the Kremlin formalizes its annexation of occupied Ukrainian territories.[51]


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## The SC

European official: We are ready and the European nuclear deterrent is on high alert..
@US_World1

US State Department: We have made it clear to the Russians, publicly and privately, that the consequences of using nuclear weapons will be real and exceptional.
@US_World1


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575267023764049922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575205349388259330


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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> If Russia is really mobilizing a million men, their best bet is to take the remainder of the coastline, especially Odessa, ASAP. Linking up with and taking over all of Moldova and encircling the bulk of Ukraine from nearly all sides will leave them in fait accompli, and a better bargaining go position come Spring 2023. BTW, I’m surprised US aid since the start of the war is only $16 Billion and only a further $3 Billion between January 2021 and February 2022, plus the few billions in equipment from Europe. Ukraine has done so much with only $20-25 Billion.



Again, there are virtually no way for Russia to take Odessa. Not with regular troop, not with 1 million conscripts.

The problem is, if Russia need to take Odessa, that involved a 2- or 3-pronged combine arms assault without Naval Support. That involved a very complex operation that Russian military do not have neither the skill nor equipment nor men to work on.

You can't use mobilised troop on an offensive operation, that's complex know how took at least a year to train, and those conscripts have had their 1-year service with at least half spent on training, then recall with minimum training (like really minimal as in days, not weeks) before they were put in the front line, the offensive capability is zero, and the defensive line the Ukrainian use are going to digest these unit if they come over, that's the same line that defeated a major Russian assault back in March, only now it's greatly improved and stocked with Western Weapon.

I would have to say it will be considered lucky if Russia did not lose Kherson before winter, I certainly don't see an offensive going the other way.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575182510408884225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575177043980918784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575187647567663104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575187653787799552


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575171627632848908

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575171856411537408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575155295659196417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575231923081064448

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575215511235096576

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## One_Nation

Viet said:


> Ilja Medwedew loves the west while his father Dmitri Medwedew wants to nuke it.
> 
> View attachment 883248


Even alcohol doesn't make them happy.


----------



## zectech

Weekly reminder that Russia wants Europe nuked out of existence. Trump and cia cronies want Europe nuked out of existence. And China wants Europe nuked out of existence.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress. (I get American channels too)

Oh, yeah, one more point, there has never been a nuclear power nuked by other nuclear power because MAD has worked (preventing such nuclear war) for nearly 75 years.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

zectech said:


> Weekly reminder that Russia wants Europe nuked out of existence. Trump and cia cronies want Europe nuked out of existence. And China wants Europe nuked out of existence.
> 
> Back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress. (I get American channels too)
> 
> Oh, yeah, one more point, there has never been a nuclear power nuked by other nuclear power because MAD has worked (preventing such nuclear war) for nearly 75 years.



This time they have gone mad with war. This time anything goes.


----------



## RoadAmerica

zectech said:


> The whole globe knows this except China, Iran, Syria, Venezuela and other fools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is on Team Trump and Trump is on Team Putin. That means both want to destroy the EU.
> For the millionth time trump isn’t president
> God you’re stupid
> “We are [for the] first time in the history in a situation where the president of the United States and [the] president of Russia seem to share the same view on Europe: the weaker, the better, because they think that it’s better for their own country, which is obviously not right,” Katainen, a former prime minister of Finland, said.
> 
> 
> 
> https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/445055-top-official-accuses-trump-putin-of-trying-to-weaken-the-eu/
> 
> 
> 
> And Trump is a PNACer deepstater. Meaning both cia Dems and cia Republicans are on board to weaken Europe. Using their tool Putin. The longer this war continues and the longer both Putin is dragging this along and US with their only 16 HIMARS and 2 new ADS, and a dozen of this and a hundred of that, to string along Ukraine without defeating Russia decisively... the worse for the EU. The main enemy is the EU, as I have said many times. Destroy the euro and destroy the European economy is the mission of Trump/Putin.


For the millionth time trump isn’t president 
God your stupid

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## zectech

There are Washington plans for US/UK total dominance in hegemony and war, after Europe is nuked and there are no more peace-niks in Europe stopping the USA endless war machine, which Chabad Putin/Trumper Putin is part of. US/UK would roll over the MENA and roll over East Asia. Africa and South America would fall in line for slavery. And then US could do Avatar and genocide the natives of other planets. Destroying/nuking Europe is the linchpin and the entire cia has known this for decades. Europe is the only competition the US/UK faces, two staged world wars to keep Europe down






The cia can't "Avatar" other planets with peace-nik Europeans demanding animal rights, human rights, environmental rights for other Sovereign planets. Genociding natives of various species of other planets would be stopped by Europeans, the US/UK could not steal resources from other planets with impunity. Europe stands in the way of global dominance of US/UK, and how "convenient" it would be to US/UK, for Russia to nuke Europe off the map. No need for two more world wars in Europe to keep down the Europeans.

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## One_Nation

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 883303
> 
> 
> 
> New weapons package, but these are future procurements, not immediate deliveries


Business is booming once again. 
Is there any estimate of how many new millionaires there will be in USA with private islands and mansions with swimming pools? I guess that will always stay a state secret.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

One_Nation said:


> Business is booming once again.
> Is there any estimate of how many new millionaires there will be in USA with private islands and mansions with swimming pools? I guess that will always stay a state secret.



It's just a drop in the bucket compared to Russian arms production. Russia is in state of war and has war economy. The US has a slow poke peace time economy.


----------



## Menthol

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575215511235096576



Russia intel and tactic are extremely flawed.

Russia should know and attacked this facility from the beginning of the war.

It's not the 20th century, it's already the 21st century.

Russia is extremely disappointing.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Menthol said:


> Russia intel and tactic are extremely flawed.
> 
> Russia should know and attacked this facility from the beginning of the war.
> 
> It's not the 20th century, it's already the 21st century.
> 
> Russia is extremely disappointing.



Russians didn't become monsters until recent days.

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> It's much rather Russia cannot AFFORD to lose, but not that they cannot lose, because they are going to lose in Ukraine. In fact, as I and many had already mentioned here and analyst worldwide said they had ALREAD LOST in term of strategic position, because in one stroke, they themselves had relegated to pariah state of the world, and now it pretty much depends on China to keep the government from malfunctioning. Border with NATO country increases instead of decreases, and then they got stuck with an angry neighbor have enough weapon that can take them down and a collective west that are more than happy to keep supplying them weapon to screw with the Russia. What Russia get in return? the "annexed" state?
> 
> Annexing those state is an act of desperation for Russia, that's literally the last draw because they would have to put their money to their mouth and really defend with everything they have when those annexed territories eventually get attacked. Nobody, not the west, not the Ukrainian is going to even entertain the fact that those state are now "Russian Territories". Which mean if this is the case, there are only 2 options left for Russia, they either call for a general mobilisation, or use nuke. To do either of that is basically Putin's political and probably literal suicide.
> 
> You asked me before what can the Russian middle class do when they are mobilised? Well, have you seen the state of affair in Russia lately? And that's not even them being mobilising, now imagine when Putin come down with a news that they are going to use nuke and bring them all down with him because of this war, or literally bring them to the war by drafting each and every one of them. What would you think will happen?


The only desperation I see is to take the world into a Nuke war for reasons that are still baffling. Why should the world care about Ukraine being invaded by Russia or China or even India? Fueling the fire is not a good idea as the flames could spread and burn down quite a few countries. It's going from one miscalculation to the next and either way Europe and the EU is under threat by agreement or consequence..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> The only desperation I see is to take the world into a Nuke war for reasons that are still baffling. Why should he world care about Ukrainian being invaded by Russia or China or even India? Fueling the fire is not a good idea as the flames could spread and burn down quite a few countries. It's going from one miscalculation to the next and either way Europe and the EU is under threat by agreement or consequentially.



Biden just want to nuke the world and take billions with him to hell. He is after all 80 years old.

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## aviator_fan

zectech said:


> There are Washington plans for US/UK total dominance in hegemony and war, after Europe is nuked and there are no more peace-niks in Europe stopping the USA endless war machine, which Chabad Putin/Trumper Putin is part of. US/UK would roll over the MENA and roll over East Asia. Africa and South America would fall in line for slavery. And then US could do Avatar and genocide the natives of other planets. Destroying/nuking Europe is the linchpin and the entire cia has known this for decades. Europe is the only competition the US/UK faces, two staged world wars to keep Europe down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cia can't "Avatar" other planets with peace-nik Europeans demanding animal rights, human rights, environmental rights for other Sovereign planets. Genociding natives of various species of other planets would be stopped by Europeans, the US/UK could not steal resources from other planets with impunity. Europe stands in the way of global dominance of US/UK, and how "convenient" it would be to US/UK, for Russia to nuke Europe off the map. No need for two more world wars in Europe to keep down the Europeans.


you get all your dumb conspiracy theories from Youtube where anybody with an iPhone can say what they want? What about the alternate view of Putin steamrolling through Europe.

Your sentiments of conspiracy are that of a frustrated person who is supporting a side whose own people are abandoning him, and the country, Russia, is on its way to economic and military irrelevance in the next 2-3 years.



khansaheeb said:


> The only desperation I see is to take the world into a Nuke war for reasons that are still baffling. Why should the world care about Ukraine being invaded by Russia or China or even India? Fueling the fire is not a good idea as the flames could spread and burn down quite a few countries. It's going from one miscalculation to the next and either way Europe and the EU is under threat by agreement or consequence..


Newsflash to the deaf on this thread: its Putin and Medev that have threatened the use of a nuclear device. Nobody else!



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians didn't become monsters until recent days.


Get your facts: Stalin killed a million of his people in the 30s. Yes ethnic Russians. Nobody wants to live under this sort of a system. They would rather live under anything else than this.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It's just a drop in the bucket compared to Russian arms production. Russia is in state of war and has war economy. The US has a slow poke peace time economy.


Cut and pasting idiot from your last 3 posts: Russia's economy is the size of South Korea and its importing from North Korea.



zectech said:


> Weekly reminder that Russia wants Europe nuked out of existence. Trump and cia cronies want Europe nuked out of existence. And China wants Europe nuked out of existence.
> 
> Back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress. (I get American channels too)
> 
> Oh, yeah, one more point, there has never been a nuclear power nuked by other nuclear power because MAD has worked (preventing such nuclear war) for nearly 75 years.


Okay Einstein, Trump is not president. You do know that or have you head up your a*s for the last 2 years

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575268097661042688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575261473491795968

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575256245187104776

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> The only desperation I see is to take the world into a Nuke war for reasons that are still baffling. Why should the world care about Ukraine being invaded by Russia or China or even India? Fueling the fire is not a good idea as the flames could spread and burn down quite a few countries. It's going from one miscalculation to the next and either way Europe and the EU is under threat by agreement or consequence..


So are you okay with US invading some place and then threaten to use nuke if things don't go its way? Or how about US demand Iran to stop their nuclear program or else they will nuke them?

The nuke is the line in the sand. that's the basic term for deterrence, but if this going over the line and can now be used in offence, that would have crossed the line and given the unparalleled power to nuclear capable countries. That is a horrifying scene in case you do not understand. And the only way to balance it is to basically raise the stake and put it back into the line.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575252707211939842
In the Kherson front, Ukrainian tanks and apcs have been taken down by Russia's VDV


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575173734222024704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575174026732789762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575174136594194432

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575165940458983424

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575271271444652034




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575263431938154498

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575260183709859840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575254621244866573

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575183429754200064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575183525741236224

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575170658497335296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575171432195059712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575171689549164552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575152829626548227


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575161010251767808


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Get your facts: Stalin killed a million of his people in the 30s. Yes ethnic Russians.



Proof?


----------



## Viet

Germany military intel BND delivers sensitive data of Russia military to Ukraine.
Russia radio message communications, mobile communications, ammo depots, troop morale, airports, aircraft, satellite images.
However Ukraine receives those intel not in real time thus Germany bd classified as not participating the war.









BND liefert der Ukraine militärisch nutzbare Daten


Der BND unterstützt die Ukraine mit militärisch nutzbaren Geheimdienstinformationen, darunter Satellitenbilder zu russischen Militärstandorten in der Ukraine. Juristisch ist Deutschland damit nicht in den Krieg eingetreten. Von G. Heil.




www.tagesschau.de





SAR Satelliten


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Proof?


Lol go read the article of Stalin on Wikipedia

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

White and Green with M/S said:


> Lol go read the article of Stalin on Wikipedia



Anglo propaganda.

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## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Anglo propaganda.


You retarded person it is fact he killed millions of innocent Russians in his term

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575196747009503232

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575161010251767808


All indications point to Moscow. It’s the last part of Putin’s total energy war against the West. Gazprom will stop gas delivery to the West via Ukraine pipeline. Yesterday the gas price futures jumped from $172 to $205.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575181983357227008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575242233220997121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574995596938973186

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> So are you okay with US invading some place and then threaten to use nuke if things don't go its way? Or how about US demand Iran to stop their nuclear program or else they will nuke them?
> 
> The nuke is the line in the sand. that's the basic term for deterrence, but if this going over the line and can now be used in offence, that would have crossed the line and given the unparalleled power to nuclear capable countries. That is a horrifying scene in case you do not understand. And the only way to balance it is to basically raise the stake and put it back into the line.


What would the US do if the Ruskies invaded Texas and and threatened to take California?

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## Viet

Breaking. Ukraine army breakthrough the Russia defense line at Lyman. Should the city fall, the entire northern russian Donbas army is finished.














Vorstöße durch die russischen Linien: Ein ukrainischer Kampfpanzer, hier bei Kupjansk.

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## kingQamaR

Doesn't make sense for Russia to destroy the pipe. They have huge investments in them. They could easily shut it from their end and give countless reasons. Destroying other countries' pipelines yes, leaving only option to buy from Russia, destroying their own own? For what benefit?

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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> Doesn't make sense for Russia to destroy the pipe. They have huge investments in them. They could easily shut it from their end and give countless reasons. Destroying other countries' pipelines yes, leaving only option to buy from Russia, destroying their own own? For what benefit?


That’s not Russia property. The pipelines north stream 1 & 2 were built and financed in large parts by western banks and companies.

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## alimobin memon

Biggest winner of this war are Iran and Turkey. Proved that Muslim might lives, with smart investments provided weapons that are lot cheaper yet lot harder to detect and do their missions without any drama.
Turkey was already powerful, now its more.
Iran is a surprise. Now I am fan of Iran military might. Imagine what else iran has in for the surprise to protect their own land.

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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> That’s not Russia property. The pipelines north stream 1 & 2 were built and financed in large parts by western banks and companies.



half of 20 billion investments in the Northern Streams were made by Russia, the second half by European companies

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> So are you okay with US invading some place and then threaten to use nuke if things don't go its way? Or how about US demand Iran to stop their nuclear program or else they will nuke them?
> 
> The nuke is the line in the sand. that's the basic term for deterrence, but if this going over the line and can now be used in offence, that would have crossed the line and given the unparalleled power to nuclear capable countries. That is a horrifying scene in case you do not understand. And the only way to balance it is to basically raise the stake and put it back into the line.


But USA do it left and right


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> All indications point to Moscow. It’s the last part of Putin’s total energy war against the West. Gazprom will stop gas delivery to the West via Ukraine pipeline. Yesterday the gas price futures jumped from $172 to $205.


who previously threatened to destroy it . let just say his nickname is sleepy Joe not Platov

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574995596938973186


His reasons are retarded. 
1. USA economic indicators are better then most. (Definately russia). And many flee to the dollar. 

2. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...s-who-voted-against-the-ukraine-aid-bill/amp/

Republican Majority support ukraine as well. So change of party would not matter. 
As if republicans would waste the chance to greatly weaken russia (and eu) for spare change

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## OldTwilight

Viet said:


> That’s not Russia property. The pipelines north stream 1 & 2 were built and financed in large parts by western banks and companies.


no sane one will shoot his own foot ... 
although , you probably claim 'Russians are not sane' next


----------



## Shawnee

alimobin memon said:


> Biggest winner of this war are Iran and Turkey. Proved that Muslim might lives, with smart investments provided weapons that are lot cheaper yet lot harder to detect and do their missions without any drama.
> Turkey was already powerful, now its more.
> Iran is a surprise. Now I am fan of Iran military might. Imagine what else iran has in for the surprise to protect their own land.



Iran is the inventor of UCAV since 1980s. UCAV is an Iranian brand.

Nobody else performed this in a war and documented before Iran.

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## Broccoli

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians didn't become monsters until recent days.



Oh, you are still pretending that Russians haven't bombed civilians 24/7.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575291818522075137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575319823902547968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575307783402127362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575223648981377024

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575389299696074752

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> US money printing is causing global inflation.


How’s the China housing market doing 🤣

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Proof?


Go read a history book and get off the internet 
Oh and Mao killed even more

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> But USA do it left and right


I don't think US threaten anyone they will use nuke on them, MacArthur tried it once, and got replaced like a jiffy.



khansaheeb said:


> What would the US do if the Ruskies invaded Texas and and threatened to take California?


lol, this is different. 

Donbas and Kherson were *NEVER* Russian soil, just because they make some referendum does not make it so, 

It's like US invade Lower Canada and said they are essentially English-Speaking American that different than French Speaking Canadian. And then when they failed, and US threaten to nuke Canada because they won't give up that land.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575404937101692928


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574872188087312401
@F-22Raptor

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> More likely we will see whether Europe will fall apart in 3 months, if they can last thru Jan 2023, then there is no way Russia will bring down EU. Because by next year, the inflation would have been subsided and gas dependence would drop.
> 
> Bear in mind most of European problem stem from irresponsible fiscal policy, not really related to Russian War in Ukraine.
> 
> My Prediction on this war will be there are going to be medium to massive gain for Ukrainian before Winter. Due to the fact that Russia is not in a position to defend their territories, the mobilised troop would be used to "Hold The Line" in occupied Ukrainian territories, and Ukraine will try to capitalise on their lack of discipline and training to gain more land all the way up to winter. Then fighting is going to subside.
> 
> Russia is going to pull their best troop off the line and rotate them to the rear. Then Russia is going to do one more major push, possibly nationwide push, sometime next year after the combat ready troop regroup and retrained. The war will end one way or the other because either Russia succeed on the push and capture all their strategic goal (I would say the complete occupation of the 4 Oblasts not Kyiv) and then declare themselves had won the war and ask for a peace talk. Or they failed to do it and exhausted the last bit of their combat power, and they will either have to pull back in general term or use nuke.
> 
> As for nuke, I just don't see them using it. You can already see the push back from Russian just on the Partial Mobilisation alone, now will the rest of the Russian want to die for Putin ambition? I would say if Putin was scare to call a mobilisation before, he would be even more scared if he were to decide to use nuke, if he even hint at that, I will say there is a pretty good chance Russian Military will revolt and take over.



Some are predicting n-times the economic effect from the mobilisation than I expected.

Food supply interruptions in Russian Far East reported.

Drivers were drafted, but n times more fled abroad.



That Guy said:


> Ukraine didn't have much of a military during the Crimean crisis, and got steamrolled because of it.
> 
> Now they have arguably one of the most powerful and experienced armies in all of Europe.
> 
> Against Russia, an eternal rival, the US and EU will continue to support Ukraine, especially since all they gotta do is give material support without having to send a single citizen of their own to their deaths.
> 
> The fact that Russian is losing major battles and entire chunks of occupied territories is evidence enough that the US smells blood and won't stop until Russia is forced into retreating.
> 
> Putin is delaying the inevitable, Russia will no longer be considered a great power after this war and will be relegated to regional power. They will 100% become a junior partner to China.



What matters is Germany, and France.

Before the war, they de facto been backing Russia. Russia been their foreign policy bid for 3 decades against the US.

If Russia loses completely, all their investments of 30 years go up in flames.

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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> The entire European economy over the last half a century was built on the back of near unlimited, cheap, reliable energy from Russia.



The entire European economy over the last half a century was built on the back of near unlimited checkbooks, and Euro


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> So are you okay with US invading some place and then threaten to use nuke if things don't go its way? Or how about US demand Iran to stop their nuclear program or else they will nuke them?
> 
> The nuke is the line in the sand. that's the basic term for deterrence, but if this going over the line and can now be used in offence, that would have crossed the line and given the unparalleled power to nuclear capable countries. That is a horrifying scene in case you do not understand. And the only way to balance it is to basically raise the stake and put it back into the line.



No, rather it's a one trick pony. After the first strike, anybody will do go for any cost to destroy enemy nuke stockpiles before the chaos settles.

Nuclear countries will surely retaliate with everything they still can to catch remaining portion of enemy nuke stockpiles before it's deployed.

Units in the field will be impacted the least, since it's both hard, and inequitable to expend a warhead on every trench line few kms apart.

After that, depending on how much of advanced weaponry will remain, the war will revert to anything in between WW2 to 1870


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> since bush USA put Iran in the list of the countries it do a first nuclear strike on isn't that threat enough for you
> Information we gave IAEA was used for assassinating our scientists isn't that threat enough for you








No, killing scientists working on nuclear weapons programs inside Iran are not valid reasons to leave the NPT, since Iran has acknowledged that access to nuclear weapons is not a strategic interest by signing the NPT.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575392627792510976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575296843688411136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575393308255338496

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## Paul2

Russia is kneecapped by the loss of officers.

Accounts are that RU has enormous loss of majors, which means that their fresh lieutenants have to command entire companies.

That would've been OK in the rear line, which most of Kharkiv line was, but now they go against UA shock troops, and predictably getting steamrolled.

RUAF paid a dear price for draining their rear line for fighting in the south.

Now, no matter the amount of rushed reinforcement, all these troops will have to fight under already mentally broken leadership.

That company which surrendered in its entirety in Drobysheve was also lead by a fresh from the academy lieutenant.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575440208392224769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575337193719140354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575455264165318657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575450212700766211


jhungary said:


> Donbas and Kherson were *NEVER* Russian soil, just because they make some referendum does not make it so,



Donbas and Kherson were always part of Russian empire until 1920 when Communists created Ukrainian Soviet Republic.









Russian Empire - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







White and Green with M/S said:


> You retarded person it is fact he killed millions of innocent Russians in his term



If he killed millions of Russians then why did Russia population boom under Stalin?  Your math don't add up.






Russian Empire Census - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575428523413602305


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 883453
> 
> 
> No, killing scientists working on nuclear weapons programs inside Iran are not valid reasons to leave the NPT, since Iran has acknowledged that access to nuclear weapons is not a strategic interest by signing the NPT.


first its well enough reason and second according to all of USA intelligence agencies combined there was no nuclear bomb program in Iran at least since 2003 and some of the ones that were assassinated were in high school at the time . so try harder,

and that page from wiki go show it to Obama the imbecile imbecile that said it will use first strike against Iran
in 2010 in his Nuclear Posture Review, and then ordered one month later to its delegate in Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) Review if iran talked about Nuke Free Middle east its delegate hat to walkout and the 3 usual guilty , USA, England and France walked out as soon as Iran talked about the necessity of Nuclear disarmament and specially Nuke Free Middle east . 


so sorry but you guys already gave us the reason to leave NPT as soon as we deemed it necessary


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> No, rather it's a one trick pony. After the first strike, anybody will do go for any cost to destroy enemy nuke stockpiles before the chaos settles.
> 
> Nuclear countries will surely retaliate with everything they still can to catch remaining portion of enemy nuke stockpiles before it's deployed.
> 
> Units in the field will be impacted the least, since it's both hard, and inequitable to expend a warhead on every trench line few kms apart.
> 
> After that, depending on how much of advanced weaponry will remain, the war will revert to anything in between WW2 to 1870


It depends. 

If, I am saying a big IF. A nuclear war broke out, I am very definitely believing it would be US who do the first strike. US will most likely launch a strike when they have intel the enemy are increasing their readiness of their missile. 

And then there are something called "Full Count" What would happen was that US will launch A wave of Air Brust and Ground Burst along with EMP into their target atmosphere, that was to take out all the possible fixed launch site. A Nuclear Strike would almost always accompanied with a full conventional strike. It is used to degrade the enemy capability to make war between and after the Nuclear Strike. 

Then what it would is to hunt down the mobile nuke, namely the airdroppable or sub-launched. Which mean to limit the damage the enemy Nuclear Strike on US soil. Those are smaller more mobile platform, which would limit their damage to a certain area. 

After that, it will be a full on invasion into the enemy state. and take control of any remaining stockpile. 

Not saying it will work, or how much it will work, but this is the US nuclear doctrine since 1950.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575432164816068615


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> I don't think US threaten anyone they will use nuke on them, MacArthur tried it once, and got replaced like a jiffy.


but obama used the threat against iran in 2010



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575389299696074752


11 hit to destroy one tank , what was used ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575464354354438144


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> *US support to Ukraine is by-Partisan. And only a few of those issue are bi-partisan, *it will take 42 Tucker Carlson in US senate to overturn this policy in the US senate.


I don't want to talk about American domestic politics in this thread, but cannot resist the temptation to point out that the conservative party in US is little more than a personality cult these days. This means that the conservative party position is subject to the whims of the cult leader, who in turn learns about right and wrong from the all knowing TC. I understand that the senate members on the conservative side can still technically make up their own mind (like the late great stalwart from Arizona did against repeal of the healthcare bill). But such men are too few and far in between. For many however, getting an endorsement from dear leader is often more important.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

DJI M30 recon drone


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575488314844794880


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> The only desperation I see is to take the world into a Nuke war for reasons that are still baffling. Why should the world care about Ukraine being invaded by Russia or China or even India? Fueling the fire is not a good idea as the flames could spread and burn down quite a few countries. It's going from one miscalculation to the next and either way Europe and the EU is under threat by agreement or consequence..


Most people agree that Russia should stop fuelling the fire.
You question makes as much sense as asking why you care about an arson in the neighbourhood.
A large part of the world is simply not going to accept Russias behaviour.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575411859456507904

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> but obama used the threat against iran in 2010


Yet another lie. He explicitly said that countries that did not violate the NTP would not be subject to first strikes.
You still owe the thread sources on Olmert and Bush.

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## Wood




----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> first its well enough reason and second according to all of USA intelligence agencies combined there was no nuclear bomb program in Iran at least since 2003 and some of the ones that were assassinated were in high school at the time . so try harder,
> 
> and that page from wiki go show it to Obama the imbecile imbecile that said it will use first strike against Iran
> in 2010 in his Nuclear Posture Review, and then ordered one month later to its delegate in Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) Review if iran talked about Nuke Free Middle east its delegate hat to walkout and the 3 usual guilty , USA, England and France walked out as soon as Iran talked about the necessity of Nuclear disarmament and specially Nuke Free Middle east .
> 
> 
> so sorry but you guys already gave us the reason to leave NPT as soon as we deemed it necessary


Obama’s policy rules out nuclear first strikes on Iran, *unless* Iran violates the NPT.
So there is no reason whatsoever to see that as a threat, unless Iran violates the treaty.
Anyone that thinks nuclear arms will protect against assassinations needs a headexam.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yet another lie ?
> You still owe the thread sources on Olmert and Bush.


its clear who lies
non nuclear threat





Obama threatens Iran


At a White House briefing Wednesday, President Obama personally joined the growing chorus of war threats against Iran coming from Washington and its allies.



www.wsws.org












Barack Obama warns Iran that US is still prepared to take military action


US president seeks to shore up US deterrence in the Middle East and warns action against Iranian nuclear programme




www.theguardian.com




nuclear threat





U.S. threatens first strike on Iran


A month-long meeting, involving 189 countries, is underway at the United Nations. It’s the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review.



www.workers.org












On Iran, Obama Says 'I Don't Bluff' And 'All Options Are On The Table'


With Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu due at the White House on Monday, President Obama has some pointed messages for Iran in an interview with The Atlantic.




www.npr.org





about bush


https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.2968/062005016




> During an impromptu
> April 18 press conference,
> President George W. Bush
> was asked if his assertion
> that “all options are on the table” re-
> garding Iran included the possibility of
> a nuclear strike. Bush reiterated, “All
> options are on the table. We want to
> solve this issue diplomatically, and we’re
> working hard to do so.” In no uncer-
> tain words, the president of the United
> States directly threatened Iran with a
> preemptive nuclear strike. It is hard to
> read his reply in any other way.



later that i have access to better internet I'll post about Israeli guy also, and prove to everybody who is liar here



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Obama’s policy rules out nuclear first strikes on Iran, *unless* Iran violates the NPT.
> So there is no reason whatsoever to see that as a threat, unless Iran violates the treaty.


Obama for 8 years accused Iran of violating NPT , he didn't say if world say Iran violated NPT . he didn't say what sort of violation . he meant if i think Iran violated NPT , I nuke iran

as i said there are enough reason for Iran to simply leave the treaty


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575505717930643459

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575504333290229760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575502391067418626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575502428828741634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575494252255408129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575488716252278789

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575487244429053952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575485732587966466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575465165172113412

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Proof?


Its called history..people with brains study it before they post crap on a forum



alimobin memon said:


> Biggest winner of this war are Iran and Turkey. Proved that Muslim might lives, with smart investments provided weapons that are lot cheaper yet lot harder to detect and do their missions without any drama.
> Turkey was already powerful, now its more.
> Iran is a surprise. Now I am fan of Iran military might. Imagine what else iran has in for the surprise to protect their own land.


Iranians are the biggest cowards in the world. For all their sabre rattling against Israel, they know they can't do anything to Israel . Instead they equip Hamas with weapons that can be easlily defended against and Israel retaliation leads to a 1000 civilian Palestinian deaths in each engagement.

Iran is as responsible for every dead Palestenian by virtue of its cowardice as Israel is iwith its weapons.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Its called history..people with brains study it before they post crap on a forum



Anglo history. I do not accept.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> but obama used the threat against iran in 2010
> 
> 
> 11 hit to destroy one tank , what was used ?





Hack-Hook said:


> Obama for 8 years accused Iran of violating NPT , he didn't say if world say Iran violated NPT . he didn't say what sort of violation . he meant if i think Iran violated NPT , I nuke iran
> 
> as i said there are enough reason for Iran to simply leave the treaty


On the NYT interview, he was asking what the US would do if Iran violated the NPT, he answered that question with an answer that anything up to and including nuclear weapons. (Well, I generalize a bit but it was in a tone like that) 

It depends on what do you define as a threat, and what is a baseline response. For me, that's a clarify of a position that US always have and a reminder of the capability of US in case of something happened. If you think that is a threat a la "I will nuke you if you attack the land I just annexed? and I am not bluffing". Then that's your interpretation. Well, it is not like US violate NPT and then say "I will use nuke on anyone who ask for consequence" Well, the US reply is not on something the US did, rather something someone else's did.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575498644882878465


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Anglo propaganda.


Why are you here then? Go to your like minded brethren (wherever you would find them, if you find them anywere on the net). 

These are probably some of the other things you believe in: Russia also did not fight WWII, and housing market in China is booming on a ponzi scheme. And Russian elite don't keep lots of money outside Russia in western cities. 

I feel sorry for you and your social circile

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## 925boy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575181983357227008
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575242233220997121
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574995596938973186


but @jhungary is constantly spewing propaganda on this thread telling us that US isnt sending much if ts weapons stockpile to Ukraine, and that US only sent Ukraine "$12bn", when the opposite is true- western countries are dipping itno national ammo stocks, AND have given Ukraine about $80bn of AID:
https://www.devex.com/news/funding-...id-to-ukraine-102887?utm_source=pocket_mylist






THis jhungary guy LIES LIKE HELL on this thread.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

925boy said:


> but @jhungary is constantly spewing propaganda on this thread telling us that US isnt sending much if ts weapons stockpile to Ukraine, and that US only sent Ukraine "$12bn", when the opposite is true- western countries are dipping itno national ammo stocks, AND have given Ukraine about $80bn of AID:
> https://www.devex.com/news/funding-...id-to-ukraine-102887?utm_source=pocket_mylist
> 
> View attachment 883501
> 
> THis jhungary guy LIES LIKE HELL on this thread.



He is Chinese who served in Australian army.

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## Alfa Centuri

vi-va said:


> In my humble opinion.
> 
> *Russia has lost the war politically and strategically, regardless the thrust towards The Dnieper River seems unstoppable.*
> 
> Attrition warfare is not in Russia's interest at all. Definitely the worst way to win the heart of Ukrainians. Russia original plan was a lightning war, but failed. Feel sorry for Russians.
> 
> The generals of Russia army and intelligence underestimated Ukraine, which is fatal.
> 
> *Never underestimate your rival.*


Totally Agree


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575523284833243139


----------



## Viet

The iron curtain is going down.
Finland will close border crossings to Russia tonight. common Russians are not allowed to go anywhere in Europe.
still a loophole: Norway land border. Russian deserters will try that border crossing.






IMAGE SOURCE, REUTERS
Image caption,
Finnish border guards check a Russian vehicle at the Vaalim










Finland closes border to Russian tourists - BBC News


It now means all of Russia's European Union neighbours have shut their borders to its tourists.




www.bbc.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> The iron curtain is going down.
> Finland will close border crossings to Russia tonight. common Russians are not allowed to go anywhere in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, REUTERS
> Image caption,
> Finnish border guards check a Russian vehicle at the Vaalim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finland closes border to Russian tourists - BBC News
> 
> 
> It now means all of Russia's European Union neighbours have shut their borders to its tourists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



Good. China has 1400 million people compared to Finland has 5 million people. Which will Russians choose to do business with? China? Or Finland? Hmm?

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Good. China has 1400 million people compared to Finland has 5 million people. Which will Russians choose to do business with? China? Or Finland? Hmm?


Russian deserters are welcome in China.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russian deserters are welcome in China.



10 million Chinese immigrate to Russia over the next few years. Russia population will top 160 million soon. It's already more than 150 million after annexation of Donbas, Kherson, and parts of Zaporazhia.









Kremlin says military campaign in Ukraine to continue at least until capture of all of Donetsk region


The Kremlin said on Wednesday its "special military operation" in Ukraine must continue at least until the capture of all of east Ukraine's Donetsk region.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 10 million Chinese immigrate to Russia over the next few years. Russia population will top 160 million soon. It's already more than 150 million after annexation of Donbas, Kherson, and parts of Zaporazhia.


Will be an interesting mix: nationalistic russians meet nationalistic chinese.

Seriously, russia army is not winning they are losing. They are under extreme pressure by Ukraine offensive. Putin now surrenders the northern flank to Nato because he needs all russians forces in Ukraine.







© Foto: dpa/KOCHETKOV









Verlegung in die Ukraine: Russland zieht offenbar Truppen von Nato-Grenze ab


Um Soldaten und militärisches Gerät in die Ukraine zu verlegen, zieht Russland Einheiten aus der nordisch-baltischen Region ab. Militärexperten beobachten das Geschehen misstrauisch.




www.tagesspiegel.de

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## 925boy

alimobin memon said:


> Biggest winner of this war are Iran and Turkey.


Iran and Turkey are big winners, but i think CHina is a bigger winner than them - this war puts China in a more advantageous position vis-a-vis its relationship and power dynamics with Russia and US.


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> The iron curtain is going down.
> Finland will close border crossings to Russia tonight. common Russians are not allowed to go anywhere in Europe.
> still a loophole: Norway land border. Russian deserters will try that border crossing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, REUTERS
> Image caption,
> Finnish border guards check a Russian vehicle at the Vaalim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finland closes border to Russian tourists - BBC News
> 
> 
> It now means all of Russia's European Union neighbours have shut their borders to its tourists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



I have just found out that Norway has a land border with Russia


----------



## MeFishToo

Paul2 said:


> I have just found out that Norway has a land border with Russia
> 
> View attachment 883517


Dont tell Putin. NATO bordering Russia is, in his mind, an existential threat.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> its clear who lies
> non nuclear threat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama threatens Iran
> 
> 
> At a White House briefing Wednesday, President Obama personally joined the growing chorus of war threats against Iran coming from Washington and its allies.
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsws.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barack Obama warns Iran that US is still prepared to take military action
> 
> 
> US president seeks to shore up US deterrence in the Middle East and warns action against Iranian nuclear programme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nuclear threat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. threatens first strike on Iran
> 
> 
> A month-long meeting, involving 189 countries, is underway at the United Nations. It’s the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review.
> 
> 
> 
> www.workers.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Iran, Obama Says 'I Don't Bluff' And 'All Options Are On The Table'
> 
> 
> With Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu due at the White House on Monday, President Obama has some pointed messages for Iran in an interview with The Atlantic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> about bush
> 
> 
> https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.2968/062005016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> later that i have access to better internet I'll post about Israeli guy also, and prove to everybody who is liar here
> 
> 
> Obama for 8 years accused Iran of violating NPT , he didn't say if world say Iran violated NPT . he didn't say what sort of violation . he meant if i think Iran violated NPT , I nuke iran
> 
> as i said there are enough reason for Iran to simply leave the treaty



Obama threatened Iran if they violated the NPT treaty.
That is not a reason that allows Iran to leave the treaty.
If Iran was threatened for exercising their sovereignity, then things would be different.
Iran, by adhering to the treaty simply avoids being attacked by nuclear weapons.


----------



## jhungary

925boy said:


> but @jhungary is constantly spewing propaganda on this thread telling us that US isnt sending much if ts weapons stockpile to Ukraine, and that US only sent Ukraine "$12bn", when the opposite is true- western countries are dipping itno national ammo stocks, AND have given Ukraine about $80bn of AID:
> https://www.devex.com/news/funding-...id-to-ukraine-102887?utm_source=pocket_mylist
> 
> View attachment 883501
> 
> THis jhungary guy LIES LIKE HELL on this thread.


LOL, well, that's mostly because you are dense, or you are intentionally misleading.

First of all, 69.3 billion according to your source is NOT entirely governmental aid, and not entirely US Government loan.






Poland alone contributed 10.1 billion on a single event, while 19.8 billion were pledged by G7.

Also, as per your source, not all those are for Military Aid, your source did not specifically mention how many % or how much was pledged to Military Assistance and how much was pledged into humanitarian aid, so that remain to be seen. The entire article mentioned "With Little humanitarian aid" but did not clarify how little or even quantify it.

On the other hand, it 63.9 billion would not even make 1/3 of Ukrainian GDP in 2021 which probably down to low 50 billion in 2022. Country still has to function even with a war going on, so If I have to guess, majority of those contribution, government or otherwise, went into either government, or civilian infrastructure.

Even the US 40 billions package pledged in July, not all 40 billion goes into security assistance.

I don't know whether or not you are just lazy and did not even read your own source, or you are intentional misleading and trying to defame me. I would give you the benefit of the doubt this time, but my patient is running thin. If I see this sloppy work accusing me or any member of lying from you, *I WILL DIRECTLY REPORT YOU TO THE MOD*.

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## 925boy

jhungary said:


> LOL, well, that's mostly because you are dense, or you are intentionally misleading.
> 
> First of all, 69.3 billion according to your source is NOT entirely governmental aid, and not entirely US Government loan.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whether or not you are just lazy and did not even read your own source, or you are intentional misleading and trying to defame me. I would give you the benefit of the doubt this time, but my patient is running thin. If I see this sloppy work accusing me or any member of lying from you, *I WILL DIRECTLY REPORT YOU TO THE MOD*.


Why you getting sensitive now? because i outed your point that you were lying to us all by underestimating how much AID Ukraine gets period, stop playing semantics as your typical fallacy card- at the end of the day, we are discussing HOW MUCH MONEY US AND WESTERN COUNTRIES HAVE GIVEN UKRAINE, and its in the high $xxbns, thats the truth, US is about to start dipping into its ammo stocks, thats what CNBC told us recently, but you already told us that US has more than sufficient weapons stocks.

youre only threatening me because i've outed your lies, go do better.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> I have just found out that Norway has a land border with Russia
> 
> View attachment 883517


Yes this piece of land in Norway is the only route for Russia tourists and deserters to Europe. Just a matter of time Norway closes it. As compensation Putin can offer Siberia as vacation destination for russians.

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## jhungary

925boy said:


> Why you getting sensitive now? because i outed your point that you were lying to us all by underestimating how much AID Ukraine gets period, stop playing semantics as your typical fallacy card- at the end of the day, we are discussing HOW MUCH MONEY US AND WESTERN COUNTRIES HAVE GIVEN UKRAINE, and its in the high $xxbns, thats the truth, US is about to start dipping into its ammo stocks, thats what CNBC told us recently, but you already told us that US has more than sufficient weapons stocks.
> 
> youre only threatening me because i've outed your lies, go do better.


We are discussing *HOW MUCH WEAPON* the west has given Ukraine, not how much money throw at him, because we are discussing a counter attack, and you cannot counter attack with money, you may have raised the point somewhere down the road, but I said US Military involvement in Ukraine is minimal, and even if 63.9 billion were all military assistance, that's still a small number. Considering that is less than 1 year worth of Military Assistance to Afghanistan.

This is the original post by the way, do you even have a brain to process what I said?



jhungary said:


> Are you really that dense?
> 
> NATO were not in any sort of mode to supply Ukraine with any weapon. Now, why that is your guess as best as mine. But just look back at what NATO give to Ukraine, that does not even mean 1% of the entire NATO reserve stock. Unless you call a few HIMARS, Pzh2000, MLRS, M777, a few Poland and Slovikia T-72 and the 28 upgraded M55 and several hundred thousand of assorted portable anti tank weapon are "Significant", and then even those weapon can stop an Russian invasion and make counter offensive.....That's how stupid Russian military were.
> 
> Where are the 450 M1 Abrams that the Marine just gave up? Where are the 142 M1128 Mobile Guns Platform the Army just retired this year? How about the M270 the Marine replaced with HIMARS? That's just American, there are alot of goodies like the Leopard 1 Tank from Canada, L2A4 tank from Netherland and Germany in storage, T-72 Poland had in storage? Yeah, Poland send some 100 but they had at least 10 times that.
> 
> And it wouldn't take a dumbass to figure out you need to send your stock ammo first, are you really expecting US to increase Ammo making capacity and send those newly make shell to Ukraine, sure, come back in a month time and collect your ammo?? LOL Are you for real?
> 
> It also would take a dumbass to figure out NATO does not produce 122 shell or 152 shell that Pakistan and Iran send respectively, those are ex-soviet Ammo, NATO don't produce them AT ALL, even China don't produce them, there aren't a lot of country producing them, majority of those are from Russia, I am sure Ukrainian should ask Russian for ammo for its Soviet Era weapon.
> 
> Jesus, just exactly how stupid were you? Most of the stuff you ask it wouldn't take 2 seconds to process to figure out. And yet you still ask them anyway....



Do I need to spell it Clear for you?


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Obama threatened Iran if they violated the NPT treaty.
> That is not a reason that allows Iran to leave the treaty.
> If Iran was threatened for exercising their sovereignity, then things would be different.
> Iran, by adhering to the treaty simply avoids being attacked by nuclear weapons.


Obama since its first day in office said Iran violating npt , after him trump while every one and even their pets said Iran adhering to NPT and JCPOA said Iran violating NPT . as you see USA threatening Iran if violating npt attack Iran is equal to saying they attack Iran. and it was not only obama , before him bush said that and he didn't even bother say if Iran violated NPT


by the way since when punishment for violating NPT is attacking the violator with nukes , how many country in last 20 years violated NPT and how many of them where threatened With NUKES ?

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> I don't want to talk about American domestic politics in this thread, but cannot resist the temptation to point out that the conservative party in US is little more than a personality cult these days. This means that the conservative party position is subject to the whims of the cult leader, who in turn learns about right and wrong from the all knowing TC. I understand that the senate members on the conservative side can still technically make up their own mind (like the late great stalwart from Arizona did against repeal of the healthcare bill). But such men are too few and far in between. For many however, getting an endorsement from dear leader is often more important.


Well, considering GOP is thinking of Dumping Trump, it won't be a problem, and Trump only command the far right side of GOP, there are many central right GOP member won't be leaning on him. 

There aren't going to have any change in this under the current presidency.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575525848240619527

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575531759374147584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575476472290197504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575555077724831744

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## RoadAmerica

jhungary said:


> Well, considering GOP is thinking of Dumping Trump, it won't be a problem, and Trump only command the far right side of GOP, there are many central right GOP member won't be leaning on him.
> 
> There aren't going to have any change in this under the current presidency.


I will have to politely disagree with you, it’s more like Trump is reshaping the GOP as recent elections have shown. The establishment lost big and trump endorsed candidates won. 
Either way I personally believe trump will support Ukraine but this war won’t last until ‘24

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575568274904870912

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575562356423536640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575562551877926917

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575561168524976129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575569430645702656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575567472375500801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575560623492337664


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575556335688912896


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575568274904870912



But at least Russia advanced 5 meters in the Bakhmut direction.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575572037791514626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575560922919505922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575561592241999872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575561771468746752

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575496526125682688
It seems the US will conduct a decapitation strike against Putin in the Kremlin if Russia uses a tactical nuke against Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575575887344709632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575574134482149376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575573785515728898


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575579082036690947

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575577902262861825


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575550915855392768

Russia is already defeated. Now the only question is how long it takes Putin to realize it, and if he doesn’t Russia will get completely destroyed.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575539391849672704

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575578171193188352

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## dBSPL

Zelinski posed in front of the bust of Sheikh Shamil.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575582685782626304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575582952448147457

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> But at least Russia advanced 5 meters in the Bakhmut direction.


You mean Russia army captured 5m in 4 weeks? too slow in my humble opinion. A snail crawls 3m in 1h.


----------



## Vergennes

Viet said:


> You mean Russia army captured 5m in 4 weeks? too slow in my humble opinion. A snail crawls 3m in 1h.



For months they only have been able to advance something like 100 meters in the Bakhmut direction. Entire months to capture half of the village of Pisky.

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## PakFactor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574859433192132617
LOL 

@waz @LeGenD @RescueRanger @Bilal9 @Bengal71

In the video, the Russians yell, "Again, Again."

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575608730699243521
Good,really hope himars will pound them hard to the last.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

925boy said:


> When he said this rubbish:
> View attachment 883319
> 
> 
> Did he mean "increase" or "RETURN"?



He was asking them to prepare for world war III. That is the essence of his message.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575604213270614017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575596326527516675

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575597297840246784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575583270389321728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575610039305261056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575579679192293377

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575580365418549248


----------



## Wood




----------



## zectech

Same as UK from 1900-1914 tried to turn each crisis in Europe, and globally, into blame Germany. To try to start a war to crush Germany.






Trump did FON, and outbreak blame, and trade war, kidnapping a CFO, and other things to cause conflict because the same as UK in 1900s/1910s vs Germany, US wants to trigger a war with China.

Present Germany and the EU are not allies of the US, they are foes of the US, this is cia policy. Trump was the true face of the cia. A PNACer to change from wars in the middle east and Afghanistan to cia war with China. Putins project is to destroy rival EU. That the cia has hated since the treaty of Rome and the European Economic Community.

The US wants Europe on their knees. And the entire global economy on their knees. One means was the outbreak. Another means is Putins war and supply shortages. A staged event after staged event. The pipeline explosion is another Entente staged event.

Westerners are foolish to not blame Biden/the cia that backs Trump for this pipeline explosion, in addition to already blaming Putin. And Chinese and Iranians are foolish for not blaming Putin for this, in addition to already blaming the US.

The Entente is almost re-formed. And when it reforms, it begins the path of an age of darkness. UK, US, France, Russia, and Balfour Declaration Israel. These are the Entente, these are the self approved rulers of the globe. These self appointed nuclear powers. The rest are to be poor and/or slaves.

The Entente destroyed Germany. The Entente wanted to destroy the Middle East. The Entente wanted to destroy East Asia. The Entente are destroying the European economy and global economy. Why. So you lose and the Entente gradually absorb the wealth of the globe.











China taking out Entente Russia or EU taking out Entente Russia is beneficial because one of the entente is taken out. The Entente want to take out China and the EU. To nuke China and the EU.

Putin and the conservative party of the UK, the MI6 political party are friends. Putin and the cia political party of Republicans and notorious cia asset Tucker Carlson are friends.









Putin’s Plot Against ‘Great’ Britain – And How He Got Away With It – Byline Times


Peter Jukes tracks Vladimir Putin’s long war against the West and the allies he has found in the pro-Brexit establishment in the plot to derail Britain




bylinetimes.com





For the cia and MI6 and cronies to back Putin overtly and covertly, means that Putin is a tool to destroy what the cia hates - Germany and the EU. And what MI6 hates Germany and the EU.


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575568274904870912


Nah, GOP is done with Trump, they know if they use Trump again, they will probably lose a sure thing in 2024. 

Plus, they have a new toy now, called DeSantis.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575632321440456704

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575604901941743616

Russian losses now exceed 6,500.

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## RoadAmerica

zectech said:


> Same as UK from 1900-1914 tried to turn each crisis in Europe, and globally, into blame Germany. To try to start a war to crush Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump did FON, and outbreak blame, and trade war, kidnapping a CFO, and other things to cause conflict because the same as UK in 1900s/1910s vs Germany, US wants to trigger a war with China.
> 
> Present Germany and the EU are not allies of the US, they are foes of the US, this is cia policy. Trump was the true face of the cia. A PNACer to change from wars in the middle east and Afghanistan to cia war with China. Putins project is to destroy rival EU. That the cia has hated since the treaty of Rome and the European Economic Community.
> 
> The US wants Europe on their knees. And the entire global economy on their knees. One means was the outbreak. Another means is Putins war and supply shortages. A staged event after staged event. The pipeline explosion is another Entente staged event.
> 
> Westerners are foolish to not blame Biden/the cia that backs Trump for this pipeline explosion, in addition to already blaming Putin. And Chinese and Iranians are foolish for not blaming Putin for this, in addition to already blaming the US.
> 
> The Entente is almost re-formed. And when it reforms, it begins the path of an age of darkness. UK, US, France, Russia, and Balfour Declaration Israel. These are the Entente, these are the self approved rulers of the globe. These self appointed nuclear powers. The rest are to be poor and/or slaves.
> 
> The Entente destroyed Germany. The Entente wanted to destroy the Middle East. The Entente wanted to destroy East Asia. The Entente are destroying the European economy and global economy. Why. So you lose and the Entente gradually absorb the wealth of the globe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China taking out Entente Russia or EU taking out Entente Russia is beneficial because one of the entente is taken out. The Entente want to take out China and the EU. To nuke China and the EU.
> 
> Putin and the conservative party of the UK, the MI6 political party are friends. Putin and the cia political party of Republicans and notorious cia asset Tucker Carlson are friends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin’s Plot Against ‘Great’ Britain – And How He Got Away With It – Byline Times
> 
> 
> Peter Jukes tracks Vladimir Putin’s long war against the West and the allies he has found in the pro-Brexit establishment in the plot to derail Britain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bylinetimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the cia and MI6 and cronies to back Putin overtly and covertly, means that Putin is a tool to destroy what the cia hates - Germany and the EU. And what MI6 hates Germany and the EU.


Wow, what a delusion


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainian Su-24 shot down. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575597612388196353
Ukrainian pows in Zaporoyzhe


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575504333290229760

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## zectech

These are the ways you take down the entente

In the US - you promote Ron Paul libertarianism (maximize liberty and go back to the gold standard) - have the US stop warmongering and endless wars, US leaves warmongering entente by default with Ron Paul libertarianism
In the UK - you have UK become a Republic, end the monarchy
In Russia - you break up the Russian Federation
In France - you keep France in the EU and on the side of EU and Germany
In Israel - a one state solution of multicultural Israel, Palestinians are full citizens with full equal rights.

This is the path to peace.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575581871164952576


----------



## F-22Raptor

The defeat of Russian forces at Lyman appear imminent.

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> The defeat of Russian forces at Lyman appear imminent.


A few telegram channel started to report Russian troop negotiating surrender to the Ukrainian. And they are all but waiting on Yampil being taken by the Ukrainian, that will happen soon.

Some Telegram channel even put the POW number to 3-4000 Russian Soldier. And those are SOBR and other Crack Troop too......

On another news, there are report that Ukrainian troop at the outskirt of Kreminna.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575613617650933760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575617969903706112


----------



## The SC




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575606626564083713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575632321440456704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575579679192293377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575576399326642181

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575572739359842305


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575569430645702656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575560623492337664

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## dBSPL

A rally area is being prepared for the Red Square, where Putin will make a speech.

Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhia are written on the posters.













Tomorrow is the big day. Step by step to D-day.


Keep a certain amount of supplies and money at home. In fact, if you have an ancestral home in the countryside, it might be wise to go and take care of the repairs.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575578166030057472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575583462060236802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575614507594190849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575608852459900929

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575606600207069185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575596326527516675

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575586246826434560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575521756424638465


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575598518051704832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575592206546931712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575592229208731648


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575591237456777216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575577380760227840


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> Obama since its first day in office said Iran violating npt , after him trump while every one and even their pets said Iran adhering to NPT and JCPOA said Iran violating NPT . as you see USA threatening Iran if violating npt attack Iran is equal to saying they attack Iran. and it was not only obama , before him bush said that and he didn't even bother say if Iran violated NPT


That is because Iran was planning to violate the NPT.
It enriched Uranium way beyond the level needed for nuclear power plants.




Hack-Hook said:


> by the way since when punishment for violating NPT is attacking the violator with nukes , how many country in last 20 years violated NPT and how many of them where threatened With NUKES ?


The treaty does not specify how violators are punished. It is clearly a casus belli so Iran can be legally attack


----------



## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575578166030057472


Like so many tweets you shared, this one is fake also. You post hundreds of tweets every day, but you don't bother to research whether or not any of them are real.

Above it says Wednesday, September 29, but September 29 is Thursday. Leman, on the other hand, is a weekly magazine and only comes out on Wednesdays. Also, the translation is wrong.

I would also like to say that Leman is an oppositional humor magazine with a very harsh language. They had very heavy descriptions about Putin.

Below is the cover dated September 28. Also, as you can see, the barcode is the same as the work you shared.









LeManDergisi on Instagram: "Yarın LeMan #iranprotests"


LeManDergisi shared a post on Instagram: "Yarın LeMan #iranprotests". Follow their account to see 2569 posts.




www.instagram.com





You can also view all the covers to the past here.









LeMan


LeMan, Istanbul, Turkey. 131,016 likes · 1,013 talking about this. Haftalık Bağımsız Mizah Dergisi




www.facebook.com

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Most people agree that Russia should stop fuelling the fire.
> You question makes as much sense as asking why you care about an arson in the neighbourhood.
> A large part of the world is simply not going to accept Russias behaviour.


Only issue arises when you don't know who the arsonist is.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> Only issue arises when you don't know who the arsonist is.
> 
> View attachment 883602


Unlike most arsonists, Russia broadcasts their acts of arson on TV channels.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575488254551674881


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Biden just want to nuke the world and take billions with him to hell. He is after all 80 years old.


May be he starts by striking where you live: how about a geo coordinate?


925boy said:


> but @jhungary is constantly spewing propaganda on this thread telling us that US isnt sending much if ts weapons stockpile to Ukraine, and that US only sent Ukraine "$12bn", when the opposite is true- western countries are dipping itno national ammo stocks, AND have given Ukraine about $80bn of AID:
> https://www.devex.com/news/funding-...id-to-ukraine-102887?utm_source=pocket_mylist
> 
> View attachment 883501
> 
> THis jhungary guy LIES LIKE HELL on this thread.


Billions or kzillions: its like Austin Powers. The numbers don't matter. The world's largest economy can pay for it. US is not going to be in an infantry war with anybody in the near future. So even if 50% of its stock of HIMARS is used up, from a US calculation, the cost is worth it to have Russia weakened.

I hope this war comes to some negotiated settlement soon. I am not proposing that US keep sending more or Russia keep fighting. But I am straightening the facts here.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Good. China has 1400 million people compared to Finland has 5 million people. Which will Russians choose to do business with? China? Or Finland? Hmm?


JYou are not a spokeperson for China so stop representing a country while you sit in your parent's basement.

Hey, why do you have a -57 score and nobody puts a 'like': its because you keep on posting the same stupid s*&t. At least post NEW stuid *(*

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## Viet

Explainer: How the U.S. could tighten sanctions on Russia over Ukraine​By Daphne Psaledakis





Ukraine supporters protest against Russia's invasion of Ukraine during a demonstration near the White House in Washington, U.S., March 1, 2022. 


REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque/File Photo
WASHINGTON, Sept 29 (Reuters) - The United States has imposed several rafts of sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine in February, targeting its central bank, major lenders, oligarchs and Russian President Vladimir Putin

SANCTIONS ENFORCEMENT​Experts said they expect Washington will continue to take measures enforcing its existing sanctions on Russia and target those helping Moscow to evade sanctions.

The United States could also enforce secondary sanctions against designated Russian entities and individuals, which would threaten anyone in the world performing transactions with Russia, Edward Fishman, who worked on Russia sanctions at the State Department during President Barack Obama's administration, said.

The targeting of foreign entities over sanctions evasion would not be surprising, Brian O'Toole, a former Treasury Department official now with the Atlantic Council think tank, said.

O'Toole also said he anticipates Commerce Department enforcement actions, though he said it might be a "slower burn".

Commerce could blacklist additional companies for violating its expansive export controls on Russia. Being added to the entity list forces U.S. suppliers to seek a special license before shipping to a blacklisted entity.

OLIGARCHS, HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATORS​The United States could still impose sanctions on Russian oligarchs and others who have not yet been targeted, experts said.

The U.S. State Department's head of sanctions coordination, James O'Brien, told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday that the United States would look to human rights violators in future sanctions packages.

SANCTIONS ALIGNMENT​The United States, European Union and United Kingdom could harmonize their sanctions lists, which have differences when it comes to names of those who have been designated, O'Toole said.

"I think leveling the playing field would probably be a smart move for everybody, so there's not confusion and nobody's taking advantage of one jurisdiction versus another," O'Toole said.

The United States could bring its measures on oligarchs in line with the EU and United Kingdom, which have targeted several Russian oligarchs not so far designated by Washington.

They include billionaire Roman Abramovich and tycoon Mikhail Fridman.

ENERGY​Washington and its G7 partners have said they will put a price cap on Russian oil in place, set to begin Dec. 5, but have held back from directly targeting major Russian energy companies over concerns about energy prices and supply.

Elizabeth Rosenberg, Treasury assistant secretary for terrorist financing and financial crimes, told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday that Russia's largest source of hard currency is from energy sales.

"It's in energy where we must focus our attention in order to deny Russia that revenue," she said.

The United States could still impose full blocking sanctions on major Russian energy companies, such as Rosneft and Gazprom, Fishman said.

"The biggest card left on the table, of course, is Russian oil sales," Fishman said.

The United States could also target Gazprombank with full blocking sanctions, O'Toole and Fishman said, wielding Washington's most powerful sanctioning tool and adding it to the SDN list.

"The two major things left on energy are blocking the companies and the associated bank," Fishman said.

TIGHTENED SANCTIONS ON BANKS, STATE-OWNED ENTERPRISES​Washington could also target other banks and state-owned enterprises, experts said.

The United States has imposed sanctions on major Russian banks, including Sberbank, the country's largest lender.

But Washington could target the banks that have stepped in to fill the void left by those that have been cut off by sanctions and are facilitating transactions for the designated lenders, O'Toole said.

Full blocking sanctions on all remaining Russian banks would be a good option, Fishman said.

He added that one of the biggest gaps is the lack of blocking sanctions on major Russian state-owned enterprises.

O'Brien said on Wednesday that Washington would look to the financial sector and high technology, especially for energy exploitation in future sanctions actions.

He also said Washington would maintain focus on Russia's military supply chains.

TRADE, FINANCIAL EMBARGOES​Washington could extend embargoes on the Donetsk and Luhansk regions to include Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, to encompass the four regions in Ukraine where Russia has held the referendums, O'Toole said.

U.S. President Joe Biden signed an executive order in February to prohibit trade and investment between U.S. individuals and the two breakaway regions of eastern Ukraine, Donetsk and Luhansk, after Russia recognized them as independent.

But Fishman said since Zaporizhzhia and Kherson are not entirely under Russian control, such an embargo may inadvertently hurt Ukrainians.

A total financial embargo on Russia further down the line is another possibility, O'Toole said, though he said he thinks such a move would be unlikely to happen unless there were a direct attack on a NATO member state or if a nuclear weapon was used.

It would likely be implemented through the issuance of a new executive order that would bar Americans from exporting to or importing from Russia goods, services or technologies, said O'Toole.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575680717291663361

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575747461888577539

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575746069836988416

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575747126105030656


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575680717291663361



At the usual circus Russian MoD briefing they will say how they destroyed a large gathering of Ukrainian AZOV nazis and killed 10K of them....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575738732044775424
Typical Russian tactic to attack civilians when their army gets beaten on the front. Hope lot of those bastards are neutralized,the less of them,the better.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575758652916506625

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is because Iran was planning to violate the NPT.
> It enriched Uranium way beyond the level needed for nuclear power plants.


and what was the level , Tehran research reactor before the revolution was designed to use 90% uranium , after the revolution because usa didn't provide us with the necessary uranium to work the reactor , with the help of Argentina we converted it so it can use 20% uranium , usa prevented Argentina to provide us the necessary uranium rods to work the reactor so we enriched uranium to that grade and turned it int power rods and used it in the reactor . completely legal under NPT , it was under the eye of IAEA .
till today the only weapon grade uranium traces found in iran was traces on the equipment we bought from Pakistan to start our program and the equipment were second hand and everybody knew that so no Iran didn't enrich uranium against NPT . if we build another reactor like original Tehran research reactor then we can legally enrich uranium up to 90% , if we build a reactor like Fukushima reactor that uses , mixture of plutonium and uranium as fuel we can legally reprocess the spent fuel and extract plutonium from them.
what you do with material and have a civilian use for them is important according to npt. its not even a violation of npt if you produce plutonium under IAEA observation and then sell it to someone who has a civilian use for it if you yourself don't have a civilian use for it . according to npt what is important diverting materials for nuke or not


A.P. Richelieu said:


> The treaty does not specify how violators are punished. It is clearly a casus belli so Iran can be legally attack


there is a rule and procedure for anything, IAEA refer the violator to Board of Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency, and they decide if violation is severe enough to warant more action they decide what to do , and if it can be solved in IAEA , if they decide it can't be solved there they refere the violator ti UNSC and its there that the fate of the violator must be decided. who is USA to single handedly decide what to do with anybody who violated NPT, who gave usa to be the police , Judge and executioner . it seems they really believe this


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575762730073853952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575762012961136641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575734823423184896

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## sammuel

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575758652916506625



Seems the encirclement around Lyman is getting a lot tighter.


----------



## jhungary

sammuel said:


> Seems the encirclement around Lyman is getting a lot tighter.


If Yampil is under Ukrainian control, that's game over. The only side Russia can retreat is over the cold river.


----------



## MH.Yang



Reactions: Love Love:
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## Viet

jhungary said:


> If Yampil is under Ukrainian control, that's game over. The only side Russia can retreat is over the cold river.


It looks good. Ukraine artillery can continue to shell the separatists until they surrender or piss off.
Will be critical in the next phases of the offensive.
Ukraine needs 15,000 rounds of 155mm per week. US runs low on those ammos. Can Japan or South Korea deliver?







Ukrainian servicemen fire an M777 howitzer, Kharkiv Region, northeastern Ukraine. This photo cannot be distributed in the Russian Federation.
Vyacheslav Madiyevskyy | Future Publishing | Getty Images

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575772296203358208


----------



## sammuel

jhungary said:


> If Yampil is under Ukrainian control, that's game over. The only side Russia can retreat is over the cold river.



From the map it seems they have one large road leading from Lyman to Zarichne and over the river by a bridge .


----------



## jhungary

sammuel said:


> From the map it seems they have one large road leading from Lyman to Zarichne and over the river by a bridge .


That would have been mighty close to the outskirt of Yampil. And Yampil is only 10 km from Zarichne. That's within even 120mm mortar range. 

If Russian want to survive, they would have to leave their Heavy equipment in Lyman, the road is not safe.


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575604901941743616
> 
> Russian losses now exceed 6,500.



~100 tanks in a week, all lost piecemeal

They clearly no longer function as a tank force. They could've easily taken at least half of these tanks, and threw them at something in an organised manner.

Also, their artillery losses seem to be getting critical as well. For the first time in months, UA is on offense without much signs of RU artillery showing.



jhungary said:


> Some Telegram channel even put the POW number to 3-4000 Russian Soldier. And those are SOBR and other Crack Troop too......



This is clearly more than just "few companies"

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## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575772296203358208



Seems they ran out of ladas LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575776110511464448

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> ~100 tanks in a week, all lost piecemeal
> 
> They clearly no longer function as a tank force. They could've easily taken at least half of these tanks, and threw them at something in an organised manner.
> 
> Also, their artillery losses seem to be getting critical as well. For the first time in months, UA is on offense without much signs of RU artillery showing.
> 
> 
> 
> This is clearly more than just "few companies"


They can't hold off Ukrainian offensive in the south if there are just a few company, there is an entire Brigade pushing North toward from Sloviansk.

I would say they probably have a few BTG between Lyman, Drobysheve and Zarichne, mostly match or superior to the number of Ukrainian in the southern flank. Which put around 4 to 6,000 troop in that area alone. That's going to hurt as they are battle hardened crack troop.

On the other hand, intel suggest Russia trying to send newly created Armour unit staffed by conscript to reinforce Lyman, one report that the new unit got into an accident and block the road.....imagine you have a bunch of Ukrainian on your tail about to close the ring and you see your tank got into road accident because of incompetent driver...That's gonna hurt.


----------



## MH.Yang



Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575778455832219649

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> View attachment 883674
> 
> 
> View attachment 883673


It's not nice to make fun of people with mental problem......


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> It's not nice to make fun of people with mental problem......



You were right before the West fell into an energy crisis.

But now she is a Russian spy.


And are you sure she needs your mercy? I'm sure she has much more property than you, and I believe you know how her property came about.


----------



## jhungary

Just saw a Telegram post now. It's just unfathomable. Now that I don't know if this is true, but the method and th background seems legit. Many Russian try to escape Russia to Georgia via Taxi. 

In it a video when a Russian man yell at a Russian woman inside a taxi near the border of Georgia, he said, "You don't need this, you are not getting drafted" and then proceed to pull the woman from the taxi and try to get in. It got on really ugly until someone intervene......

Whatever happened to woman and children first??


----------



## Paul2

Confirmation: RU artillery seem to be depleted around Lyman-Yampil


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575781593112670211


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575791834848055296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575790697541615616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575788339298709505


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575799287413252097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575803652589359104

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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575799287413252097
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575803652589359104


I assume they will run to death/surrender?

@jhungary with kharkiv counter, despite the speed, it seems the russians were able to run without too much losses (apart from equipment). That was suprising…any idea why ukraine failed to really press their advantage in regards of actually eliminating russian soldiers?


----------



## ziaulislam



Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> I assume they will run to death/surrender?
> 
> @jhungary with kharkiv counter, despite the speed, it seems the russians were able to run without too much losses (apart from equipment). That was suprising…any idea why ukraine failed to really press their advantage in regards of actually eliminating russian soldiers?


That's because of the speed, Ukraine cannot deploy a blocking force in time to cut off the Russian retreat route. With a speed like this, you will need to insert troop behind Russian escape point to cut them off, the only way it can possibly done is via Air Assault, you chopper in those troop behind their line to cut them off. Ukraine does not really have Air Assault capability on that scale.

Otherwise, an offensive like this would only brush the defender aside, without a blocking element, they can just retreat. If this was the US, we would probably send 101st Division and the 25th division to air assault over the river crossing to cut them off, and then squeeze the Russian with our main force. 

On the other hand, the size of the entire Kharkiv offensive would make a cut off/encirclement operation more or less impossible.

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## Viet

Separatists and Russia troops are encircled at Lyman there is no way out.
After taking Lyman the assault on Luhansk can begin.







Das ukrainische Militär konnte in den vergangenen Wochen entscheidende Erfolge verbuchen - nun deutet sich eine weitere Rückeroberung an. Foto:Kostiantyn Liberov/AP/dpa

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575706128360546304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575704618847571968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575467577744162819

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575806556901412865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575814225401810946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575815340293992448

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575817804326240256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575818183092887552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575814572086202369


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575799549259563009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575798075595100160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575745360416608256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575634489472319488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575627467007889408

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575816303398772736


----------



## jhungary

A BIG LOL





__





Russia accuses Guterres of «double standards» for not supporting annexation of Ukrainian regions






www.msn.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> A BIG LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia accuses Guterres of «double standards» for not supporting annexation of Ukrainian regions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com



Russia never accepted Kosovo referendum as legit, calling it a big farce orchestrated by Americans.

Russia's plan is to therefore kill off every Ukrainian by war and take Kiev. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukrainian. Even if every Ukrainian dies from war, Russia still have 100+ million people left.

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## PakAlp

Russia-Ukraine live news: Putin formalises annexation move


Russia formally annexes occupied Ukrainian regions in move dismissed by Kyiv and the West as a meaningless war tactic.




www.aljazeera.com


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Separatists and Russia troops are encircled at Lyman there is no way out.
> After taking Lyman the assault on Luhansk can begin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Das ukrainische Militär konnte in den vergangenen Wochen entscheidende Erfolge verbuchen - nun deutet sich eine weitere Rückeroberung an. Foto:Kostiantyn Liberov/AP/dpa
> 
> View attachment 883704


Lyman is going down. It would be amazing waiting on Putin reaction on "Part of Their Russia Territories of Donetsk" fall to Ukrainian.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575779557105627136

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575822881711616001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575821355580215297


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563128774300155905

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Acetic Acid

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575833308419612672
European borders are changed one more time

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## HorusRa

lmao

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## monitor

Russians are leaving Lyman, partial withdrawals as seen here (45 minutes ago).








Situation around Lyman - Sep 30 11:00: - UA forces liberated Yampil and advancing north - RU troops are reportedly abandoning its positions in Drobysheve - The only exit route from Lyman is within the firing range of UA forces #UkraineRussiaWar


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575835207424704518


----------



## F-22Raptor

HorusRa said:


> lmao




It’s embarrassing how poorly the Russian military has performed. Their backs are being broken by shoulder fired missiles, Soviet era armor and air defenses, a couple hundred pieces of NATO artillery, and 16 HIMARS.

I mean this a fraction of NATO military power. Pretty stunning

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575833976211587075

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575843498217144321


----------



## FuturePAF

Considering a disproportionate amount of the Russian casualties are coming from ethnic minorities, particularly Dagestan, any indication Turkey is working with Azerbaijan to make sure those areas become independent should Russia fracture, post Ukraine war and Putin?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575835730227740672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575834947604340736


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575843498217144321



HIMARS is 227 mm. Smerch / Tornado-S is 300 mm. HMARS compared to Smerch / Tornado-S is like M16 compared to M14.


----------



## Gripen9

Russians answering the call for mobilization

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575842000057683969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575847083558346752

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575843498217144321


Nice. Cant wait for it to be used to full effect.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575861607959515136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575861320423202818

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575858527054499840


----------



## F-22Raptor

I’m actually happy Putin is going all in. The West will throttle Russia until every last Russian depot is scraped and their back is broken in two, so that there’s no doubt about who got thoroughly humiliated and defeated.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Lyman is going down. It would be amazing waiting on Putin reaction on "Part of Their Russia Territories of Donetsk" fall to Ukrainian.


Yes however thing becomes dangerous now. Zelinskki has filed the application to Nato, as response to Russia provocation. Ukraine officially asks for acceleration of the entry to the Nato.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> and what was the level , Tehran research reactor before the revolution was designed to use 90% uranium , after the revolution because usa didn't provide us with the necessary uranium to work the reactor , with the help of Argentina we converted it so it can use 20% uranium , usa prevented Argentina to provide us the necessary uranium rods to work the reactor so we enriched uranium to that grade and turned it int power rods and used it in the reactor . completely legal under NPT , it was under the eye of IAEA .
> till today the only weapon grade uranium traces found in iran was traces on the equipment we bought from Pakistan to start our program and the equipment were second hand and everybody knew that so no Iran didn't enrich uranium against NPT . if we build another reactor like original Tehran research reactor then we can legally enrich uranium up to 90% , if we build a reactor like Fukushima reactor that uses , mixture of plutonium and uranium as fuel we can legally reprocess the spent fuel and extract plutonium from them.
> what you do with material and have a civilian use for them is important according to npt. its not even a violation of npt if you produce plutonium under IAEA observation and then sell it to someone who has a civilian use for it if you yourself don't have a civilian use for it . according to npt what is important diverting materials for nuke or not
> 
> there is a rule and procedure for anything, IAEA refer the violator to Board of Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency, and they decide if violation is severe enough to warant more action they decide what to do , and if it can be solved in IAEA , if they decide it can't be solved there they refere the violator ti UNSC and its there that the fate of the violator must be decided. who is USA to single handedly decide what to do with anybody who violated NPT, who gave usa to be the police , Judge and executioner . it seems they really believe this


Fuel for reactors are at around 2-3%, and enrichment to 20% is a clear indication of a weapons program.





Centrifuges and Nuclear Weapon Proliferation


Even moderately technically advanced nations are able to build and operate gas centrifuges for uranium enrichment. This spreading capability is creating dangerous opportunities for nuclear weapon proliferation. There are two routes to producing a nuclear weapon: one using highly-enriched uranium (H




fas.org


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575848344102252544


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Yes however thing becomes dangerous now. Zelinskki has filed the application to Nato, as response to Russia provocation. Ukraine asks for acceleration of the entry to the Nato.



Hungary veto Ukraine's NATO application. Hungary is pretty pro China and Russia these days after receiving Sinopharm and Sputnik vaccines from China and Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575853104490156032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575835230728257537


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575859158015844352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575856763731316737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575852698838085632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575834727193497600


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Fuel for reactors are at around 2-3%, and enrichment to 20% is a clear indication of a weapons program.


why you have to fight a loosing battle
at least go and look up Tehran research reactor, instead of posting that funny comment that reactor using only 2-3% uranium , they can use even 90% enriched uranium


> The Tehran Research Reactor (TRR) (35°44′18″N 51°23′17″E) was supplied by the United States under the Atoms for Peace program. The 5-megawatt pool-type nuclear research reactor became operational in 1967 and initially used *highly enriched uranium** fuel*.[64][65] Light water is used as moderator, coolant and shielding. The TRR core lattice is a 9×6 array containing Standard Fuel Elements (SFEs), Control Fuel Elements (CFEs), irradiation boxes (as vertical tubes provided within the core lattice configuration for long term irradiation of samples and radioisotope production) and graphite boxes (as reflectors).[66]
> 
> After the Iranian Revolution the United States cut off the supply of highly enriched uranium (HEU) fuel for the TRR, which forced the reactor to be shut down for a number of years.[67][68] Due to the nuclear proliferation concerns caused by the use of HEUs and following Reduced Enrichment Research and Test Reactor (RERTR) Programs, Iran signed agreements with Argentina's National Atomic Energy Commission to convert the TRR from highly enriched uranium fuel to low-enriched uranium, and to supply the low-enriched uranium to Iran in 1987–88. TRR core was converted to use Low Enriched Uranium (LEU) fuels in 1993.[69] Fuel elements of *TRR are now plate-type U3O8-Al with approximately 20% enrichment*.[70] In February 2012, Iran loaded the first domestically produced fuel element into the Tehran Research Reactor.[71]
> 
> Standard fuel elements of TRR have 19 fuel plates, while CFEs have only 14 fuel plates to accommodate the fork-type control rods. Control of the reactor is accomplished by the insertion or removal of safety and regulating absorber plates, which contain Ag–In–Cd alloy and stainless steel, respectively.[66] Additional control is provided by the inherent negative temperature coefficient of reactivity of the system.
> 
> The reactor core is immersed in either section of a two-section, concrete pool filled with water. One of the sections of the pool contains an experimental stall into which beam tubes and other experimental facilities converge. The other section is an open area for bulk irradiation studies. The reactor can be operated in either section.[72]
> 
> The reactor experimental facilities in the stall end are as follow:[72][73]
> 
> 1. Two pneumatic rabbit tubes (for short term irradiation of samples)
> 
> 2. One graphite thermal column
> 
> 3. One 12"×12" beam tube
> 
> 4. Four 6" diameter beam tubes
> 
> 5. One 8" diameter beam tube
> 
> 6. One 6" diameter through tube
> 
> TRR core cooling is accomplished by gravity flow of pool water at nominal rate of 500 m3/hr through the reactor core, grid plate, plenum and into the hold-up tank from where it is pumped through the shell of the heat exchanger and then back into the pool.[74]
> 
> TRR offers a variety of education and exposure services and production of radioisotopes for medical, scientific and industrial centers. One of the primary objectives of the facility is to render services to scientists, engineers and graduate students in nuclear techniques. Tehran research reactor can be utilized for laboratory work involving studies of the reactor core and experiments on neutron diffusion, neutron diffraction, shielding, gamma spectroscopy, boron neutron capture therapy, neutron radiography and Neutron Activation Analysis.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575865182923870209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575867197779456005

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575865182923870209
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575867197779456005



Payback for sham referendum the US did in Kosovo after invading Serbia.

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## Paul2

In the private Telegram group of soldiers & volunteers fighting on the south direction:



> Most of captured enemy vehicles, and our armour losses are from loss of tracks, and wheels, almost everything is easily repairable within days. Current backlog of vehicles with blow off wheels is 16, the priority now is just to refit, and repaint intact trophies.


----------



## Wood

Paul2 said:


> In the private Telegram group of soldiers & volunteers fighting on the south direction:


Is this from Ukrainian group or Russian group?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575870260405997568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575868889292230656


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575851108626755586
Look at this clown


----------



## dbc

Just saw the annexation ceremony and Putin's one hour speech on YouTube. The audience looked comatose, I must say I've seen more cheerful funerals.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Mista

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575738476858773506

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mista said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575738476858773506



If that were the case, Axis would have won over Allies, Confederates would have won over Union.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575873468855644161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575871077363773441


----------



## Viet

dbc said:


> Just saw the annexation ceremony and Putin's one hour speech on YouTube. The audience looked comatose, I must say I've seen more cheerful funerals.


That’s the staged show. Putin lets pick those fanatics and racists far away from Moscow and transport them by bus to the show propaganda.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575870191455522816


----------



## Viet

an article on "Spiegel", Ukraine airforce working out how to use modern western weapons on legacy Soviet/russian jets.
Not only anti radiation missiles but other missiles.

Cool music.

Slava Ukraini!


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> an article on "Spiegel", Ukraine airforce working out how to use modern western weapons on legacy Soviet/russian jets.
> Not only anti radiation missiles but other missiles.
> 
> Cool music.



No spare parts. Can only fly for a few weeks tops. Meanwhile, Su-25 SM3 has thermal, autotracking.


----------



## Mista

Ukraine announces fast-track NATO membership bid, rules out Putin talks


KYIV: President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said on Friday (Sep 30) that Ukraine was formally applying for fast-track membership of the NATO military alliance and that Kyiv was ready for talks with Moscow, but not with President Vladimir Putin. The Ukrainian leader made his comments in a video which...




www.channelnewsasia.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575867352553398274


----------



## Hack-Hook

Mista said:


> Ukraine announces fast-track NATO membership bid, rules out Putin talks
> 
> 
> KYIV: President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said on Friday (Sep 30) that Ukraine was formally applying for fast-track membership of the NATO military alliance and that Kyiv was ready for talks with Moscow, but not with President Vladimir Putin. The Ukrainian leader made his comments in a video which...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.channelnewsasia.com


since when nato accept countries with ongoing border dispute


----------



## Paul2

Wood said:


> Is this from Ukrainian group or Russian group?



UA of course

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575862871095140353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575851423920971777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575851251488595970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575850620392681472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575850323880517634

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

With this weeks RU losses, they may well be down to in between 400 and 600 tanks theatre-wide, of which 80 are T62s in the south which haven't seen action, and only been used for piquete lines

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## Lehrasap

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Payback for sham referendum the US did in Kosovo after invading Serbia.




Why then you supported Azerbaijan against Armenia when the majority of population living in Karabakh ist Armenian and deadly against Azerbaijan?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575762250605871104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575806032764317696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575773480980578305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575788560984076288

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

dBSPL said:


> Like so many tweets you shared, this one is fake also. You post hundreds of tweets every day, but you don't bother to research whether or not any of them are real.
> 
> Above it says Wednesday, September 29, but September 29 is Thursday. Leman, on the other hand, is a weekly magazine and only comes out on Wednesdays. Also, the translation is wrong.
> 
> I would also like to say that Leman is an oppositional humor magazine with a very harsh language. They had very heavy descriptions about Putin.
> 
> Below is the cover dated September 28. Also, as you can see, the barcode is the same as the work you shared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LeManDergisi on Instagram: "Yarın LeMan #iranprotests"
> 
> 
> LeManDergisi shared a post on Instagram: "Yarın LeMan #iranprotests". Follow their account to see 2569 posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.instagram.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can also view all the covers to the past here. was inline with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LeMan
> 
> 
> LeMan, Istanbul, Turkey. 131,016 likes · 1,013 talking about this. Haftalık Bağımsız Mizah Dergisi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com


You last post that made no sense was inline with this Leman tweet..why did you delete it and replaced it with Zelinsky's picture..???

You must be a lil' bit out of your mind..next time don't post your opinion if you're gonna reget it later..just post tweets..

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> why you have to fight a loosing battle
> at least go and look up Tehran research reactor, instead of posting that funny comment that reactor using only 2-3% uranium , they can use even 90% enriched uranium







__





The nuclear fuel cycle - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)


The nuclear fuel cycle including uranium mines, uranium mills, nuclear fuel fabrication, and nuclear waste storage and disposal.




www.eia.gov









The existence of a 5MW (peanuts) reactor which uses higher concentration is not of importance. Swedish commercial reactors have 2500-3500 MW and then you do not use Highly Enriched Uranium.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

ziaulislam said:


> View attachment 883696
> View attachment 883697
> View attachment 883699
> View attachment 883700
> 
> 
> View attachment 883702



The reality conveyed by Ukrainian troops in the battle of Kherson clearly demonstrates a different picture from the one claimed by the Western propagandists. There is a saying the truth has a strange way of revealing itself. And that truth is, the Ukrainians and their backers have taken a beating in the battle-field in the Kherson front.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575843498217144321




They're getting new weapons from the West because the previous weapons provided by the West are getting destroyed. If they were not destroyed, the West would have only provided ammunition. The whole reason of supplying new weapons is because the old ones were taken out.

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## HorusRa

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The reality conveyed by Ukrainian troops in the battle of Kherson clearly demonstrates a different picture from the one claimed by the Western propagandists. There is a saying the truth has a strange way of revealing itself. And that truth is, the Ukrainians and their backers have taken a beating in the battle-field in the Kherson front.


 Yea, and Russia lost no planes in Saky air base


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

President Putin's speech:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575844877312884741

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575845399075909633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575846228491141120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575846770529034240
Boohoo!

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> They're getting new weapons from the West because the previous weapons provided by the West are getting destroyed. If they were not destroyed, the West would have only provided ammunition. The whole reason of supplying new weapons is because the old ones were taken out.


Your posting a link where they literally discussed they have received new ammunition….
With nice little tungsten balls to shred apart the ww1 human wave attacks of the newly mobilised russian troops we can expect to see. 


As for kherson…i see the ukranians dishing out as much as they take there. (Videod losses). It comes at a cost but keeping up the pressure means the position of the partly cut off russians becomes untenable there. 
It is inspiring to see even the wounded wanting to rejoin battle. Talk about morale to throw out the invader!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575870007992410112

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## Hassan Al-Somal

President Putin's speech continued....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575879929136558080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575879934903726085
Boohoo, a new map of Russia. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575900779705147393

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575898860651655170


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## Hassan Al-Somal

President Putin's speech continued......


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575884116196671488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575883237771337729

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> President Putin's speech continued....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575879929136558080
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575879934903726085
> Boohoo, a new map of Russia. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575900779705147393



Good, the Russian defeat will be even more humiliating once Ukraine retakes all of it.

Regardless, absolutely no one recognizes this

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## The SC




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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> since when nato accept countries with ongoing border dispute


The criteria for allowing a country to join NATO is that no member votes against membership. The thing about border disputes is something that can be changed as long as noone opposes that.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575901585711898627
Poland wants to annex western Ukraine which were Poland land annexed by USSR in 1939 when USSR and Germany invaded Poland. So no NATO membership for Ukraine.

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## HorusRa

F-22Raptor said:


> Good, the Russian defeat will be even more humiliating once Ukraine retakes all of it.



Not when these bad boys start arriving the front line:


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575900077683769345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575896019149418496

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575886706141581312

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575762250605871104
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575806032764317696
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575773480980578305
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575788560984076288


What’s the inflation rate in Russia?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575891857589952515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575882488160755716

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575880640926347264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575880550212333568


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575894584726413312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575887615928438786


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575874784776392705


----------



## ziaulislam

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The reality conveyed by Ukrainian troops in the battle of Kherson clearly demonstrates a different picture from the one claimed by the Western propagandists. There is a saying the truth has a strange way of revealing itself. And that truth is, the Ukrainians and their backers have taken a beating in the battle-field in the Kherson front.


We find out soon. But facts are Russia controls 80% of regions it want to annex.

Russia lost parts of Ukraine it doesn't want to annex

Unlike Syria I don't see massive air power use by Russia..that is something I don't understand.likey to avoid collateral damage ..but if Russians are squeezed enough they may end up doing so

MANPADs won't work againzt high altitude bombing


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575917335906598914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575905843589136390

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575886124962439168

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575923750838554624

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## monitor

Apparently 5500 Russian soldiers are sorrouned by Ukrainian army in layman. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575925678330945536

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575925545581281282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575922901387296774

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575917355816943616

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575931300980338688

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## 925boy

aviator_fan said:


> Billions or kzillions: its like Austin Powers.


in your mind or in reality?


aviator_fan said:


> The numbers don't matter.


Oh yes they do, especially if you live in reality, like most of us.


aviator_fan said:


> The world's largest economy can pay for it.


THen why so much inflation and debt in the US economy?


aviator_fan said:


> US is not going to be in an infantry war with anybody in the near future.


It doesnt have to be- its already heavily involved in another war in UKraine.


aviator_fan said:


> So even if 50% of its stock of HIMARS is used up, from a US calculation, the cost is worth it to have Russia weakened.


ha ha ..and then what about "contingencies" for war with CHina, Iran, North Korea?? no plan? thats why you lose wars, blockhead, you fight with ego, not logic.


aviator_fan said:


> I hope this war comes to some negotiated settlement soon.


me too


aviator_fan said:


> I am not proposing that US keep sending more or Russia keep fighting.


we've spent alot already so far, but ok.


aviator_fan said:


> But I am straightening the facts here.


somewhat, but not fully or accurately.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575934632620498944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575936962074058752

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575931117743771649
Another weapons package next week

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## Viet

Russia aviation is finished. What’s Putin endgame? A big version of North Korea?


Russia Says Goodbye To Airbus And Boeing And Goes It Alone​BYMICHAEL DORAN
PUBLISHED 2 DAYS AGO
Although Russia holds on to hundreds of stolen Airbus and Boeing jets, it says it doesn't need the West anymore and will go it alone.
Photo: UAC

Aeroflot has 36 Airbus A321neos that it plans to replace with Russian-built aircraft, but how will they keep the neos airworthy until then? Photo: Airbus





__





Loading…






simpleflying.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russia aviation is finished.
> 
> 
> Russia Says Goodbye To Airbus And Boeing And Goes It Alone​BYMICHAEL DORAN
> PUBLISHED 2 DAYS AGO
> Although Russia holds on to hundreds of stolen Airbus and Boeing jets, it says it doesn't need the West anymore and will go it alone.
> Photo: UAC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> simpleflying.com











Sukhoi Superjet 100 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Irkut MC-21 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Comac C919 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Ilyushin Il-96 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













CRAIC CR929 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Sukhoi Superjet 100 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Irkut MC-21 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comac C919 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRAIC CR929 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


They will end up like Russia domestic automobile industry.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> They will end up like Russia automobile industry.










Viet said:


> Russia aviation is finished. What’s Putin endgame? A big version of North Korea?
> 
> 
> Russia Says Goodbye To Airbus And Boeing And Goes It Alone​BYMICHAEL DORAN
> PUBLISHED 2 DAYS AGO
> Although Russia holds on to hundreds of stolen Airbus and Boeing jets, it says it doesn't need the West anymore and will go it alone.
> Photo: UAC
> 
> Aeroflot has 36 Airbus A321neos that it plans to replace with Russian-built aircraft, but how will they keep the neos airworthy until then? Photo: Airbus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> simpleflying.com



Good opportunity for Ilyushin.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Good opportunity for Iluyshin.


this Lada?
A perfect choice for people that want to commit suicide.
No board computer, no anti brake blocking system, no electric window lifter, no emission control system, no servo steering, old steering wheel from previous Lada.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Lada?
> For people that want to commit suicide.
> No board computer, no anti brake blocking system, no electric window lifter, no emission control system, no servo steering, old steering wheel.



Russian government bought back AvtoVAZ from Renault Group in May this year. AvtoVAZ was run into the ground by Renault Group. Expect to see major improvements coming in the coming months and years to AvtoVAZ.









AvtoVAZ - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## oberschlesier

European gas storage for Winter is at 88.25% and still growing:


Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russian government bought back AvtoVAZ from Renault Group in May this year. AvtoVAZ was run into the ground by Renault Group. Expect to see major improvements coming in the coming months and years to AvtoVAZ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AvtoVAZ - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Russia has not made any domestic car since 20y. Putin is more focused on military and intimidation. Most cars in Russia are imported or assembled. Now Russia car industry and market is dead.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575936001947553792


Viet said:


> Russia has not made any domestic car since 20y. Most cars in Russia are imported or assembled. Now Russia car industry and market is dead.



Chinese cars are best in the world. Russia import a lot of those.


----------



## F-22Raptor

The continuing resolution will mostly keep spending levels frozen at the previous fiscal year’s levels, though it does include an extra $12 billion in aid for Ukraine—largely in line with Biden’s request for $11.7 billion earlier this month.

This new round of aid is intended to last through December. The $12 billion includes $3 billion in defense aid through the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, $1.5 billion to replenish Pentagon stocks depleted by presidential drawdowns to provide weapons to Ukraine and other countries aiding Ukraine, $540 million to increase production of critical munitions to replace those sent to Ukraine, and up to $3.7 billion in presidential drawdown authority.

Aside from security assistance, the bill also includes $4.5 billion to support Ukraine’s national government.









Congress Approves CR to Avoid Government Shutdown, Provide Ukraine Aid - Air & Space Forces Magazine


The U.S. Congress voted to approve a continuing resolution (CR) on Sept. 30 that will keep the government open through mid-December.




www.airandspaceforces.com






Another $12B has been passed to support Ukraines military and economy


----------



## Vergennes




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575952146667048961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575952392956567552


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575922473446518785


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575946087684153344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575952644212162560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575871077363773441

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575948876208488448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575948919934111744

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575963672127877120


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Yes however thing becomes dangerous now. Zelinskki has filed the application to Nato, as response to Russia provocation. Ukraine officially asks for acceleration of the entry to the Nato.


I said a couple of post ago, if Russia do annex those territories, one of the way to deal with it is for Ukraine to file NATO membership, but as I said back then, this depends on whether or not Ukraine willing to give up (At least on the table) the land occupied by Russia. That's expected response by Zelenskyy

The Annexation would not change much to the ground situation, because the same nuclear problem exist, Russia will not nukee Ukraine because of the no-first use policy, it's because NATO response and it will literally blow back to Russia. You have to be foolish to think Putin wouldn't change its domestic policy to achieve his goal, which mean if he really do want to nuke Ukraine, he don't need to wait for annexing those territories first, he would have just go do it. And as I said before, annexing those territories is probably the most desperate move Putin have, because it literally tell everyone he does not have any mean to stop Ukrainian advance and have to put it into "special protection" which no one will actually care. If things goes Russia way, they would not speed up the annexation process like this.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> since when nato accept countries with ongoing border dispute


Since 1949.

Otherwise how NATO admit West Germany when there are still a "East Germany"

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575964157819527169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575964018396626944


jhungary said:


> Since 1949.
> 
> Otherwise how NATO admit West Germany when there are still a "East Germany"



West Germany and East Germany were carved up from Germany by the Allies after WW2 with Potsdam treaty. West Germany and East Germany were never at war.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> What’s the inflation rate in Russia?


15-30% depends on items. 

Electricity went up the lowest around 9%, otherwise everyday supermarket item went up ~15% and luxury item was the worse.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575968528619868160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575957850354245632


----------



## MH.Yang

Thank you, Biden. Thank Hillary. We have just received news from the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

All 8 scientists from the research team of brain matrix and cellular neuroimaging technology of MPG (Max-Planck-Gesellschaft zur F&ouml;rderung der Wissenschaften e.V.) Institute of Neuroscience in Germany have joined the Research Center for Brain Science and Intelligent Technology of Chinese Academy of Sciences.

Eight top scientists from Germany have submitted their nationality applications to the Chinese government through the channel of China's special talent introduction program. It is expected that they will acquire Chinese nationality within two years.


European politicians are having a good time. But really smart Europeans have started voting with their feet.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## 925boy

Viet said:


> They will end up like Russia domestic automobile industry.


even after China's help?


----------



## jhungary

Sad situation in Lyman if this is true.

Telegram channel has reported since Drobysheve felt (Confirmed as of 30-09) The SOBR guy has abandoned the 752nd Guards Motorized Rifle Regiment guys and withdraw under the cover of the night and leaving 752nd to fend for themselves in Lyman, quote the SOBR guy "We are just here to make sure Lyman did not fall until Putin Speech is over"

.............


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

925boy said:


> even after China's help?



He's just full of sht.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575906370075127808


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575979009346654208


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575981376079134721

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## 1ndy

why


925boy said:


> even after China's help?


 would China help when they have own cars to sell in Russia.


----------



## jhungary

Double blow for Putin as Ukraine kills two top commanders


The deaths of such esteemed military personnel just 10 days apart underscores the frailty of Putin's 'military operation', even as he formally annexed four regions of Ukraine today




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575983444810600448


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

oberschlesier said:


> European gas storage for Winter is at 88.25% and still growing:
> 
> 
> Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI



Europe is gaining independence from Russia gas.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575999782253785088


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575976429077962752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575732504220553216


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575999782253785088




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575917001541062656

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576009710678945792


----------



## TruthSeeker

SPECIAL REPORT: ASSESSING PUTIN’S IMPLICIT NUCLEAR THREATS AFTER ANNEXATION​Sep 30, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Mason Clark, Katherine Lawlor, and Kateryna Stepanenko
September 30, 12:45pm ET*​*Russian President Vladimir Putin did not threaten an immediate nuclear attack to halt the Ukrainian counteroffensives into Russian-occupied Ukraine during his speech announcing Russia’s illegal annexation of Ukrainian territory. *Putin announced Russia’s illegal annexation of Ukraine’s Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhia oblasts on September 30 even as Ukrainian forces encircled Russian troops in the key city of Lyman, Luhansk Oblast, immediately demonstrating that Russia will struggle to hold the territory it claims to have annexed. Putin likely intends annexation to freeze the war along the current frontlines and allow time for Russian mobilization to reconstitute Russian forces. The annexation of parts of four Ukrainian oblasts does not signify that Putin has abandoned his stated objective of destroying the Ukrainian state for a lesser goal. As ISW assessed in May, if Putin’s annexation of occupied Ukraine stabilizes the conflict along new front lines, “the Kremlin could reconstitute its forces and renew its invasion of Ukraine in the coming years, this time from a position of greater strength and territorial advantage.”[1]
*Putin’s annexation speech made several general references to nuclear use that are consistent with his past language on the subject, avoiding making the direct threats that would be highly likely to precede nuclear use.* Putin alluded to Russia’s willingness to use “all available means” to defend claimed Russian territory, a common Kremlin talking point. Putin stated that “the US is the only country in the world that twice used nuclear weapons, destroying the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Incidentally, they created a precedent.” Putin stretched his historical allusions, stating that the United States and the United Kingdom demonstratively and without a military need destroyed many German cities during World War II with the “sole goal, just like in the case of nuclear bombardments in Japan, to scare our country and the entire world,” attempting to portray Western states as the true aggressor. Putin did not directly articulate any new red lines or overtly threaten to use a nuclear weapon against Ukraine if Ukrainian counteroffensives continue.
*Putin is attempting to force Kyiv to the negotiating table by annexing Russian-occupied territory and threatening nuclear use.[2] He is following the trajectory that ISW forecasted he might on May 13. *As ISW wrote at the time: “A Russian annexation would seek to present Kyiv with a fait accompli that precludes negotiations on territorial boundaries even for a ceasefire by asserting that Russia will not discuss the status of (illegally annexed through military conquest) Russian territory—the argument the Kremlin has used regarding Crimea since 2014.” Predictably, Putin demanded that Ukraine return to negotiations in his September 30 speech announcing annexation and precluded any discussion of returning illegally annexed Ukrainian territory to Kyiv’s control: “We call on the Kyiv regime to immediately cease all fire and hostilities and end the war it initiated in 2014 and return to the negotiations table. We are ready for it and have said that several times. But the decision of the people in Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson we will not negotiate. This choice has been made and Russia will not betray it.”
*Putin’s call for negotiations and implicit nuclear threats are aimed at both Ukraine and the West; he likely incorrectly assesses that his nuclear brinksmanship will lead the United States and its allies to pressure Ukraine to negotiate*. As ISW wrote in May: “The Kremlin could threaten to use nuclear weapons against a Ukrainian counteroffensive into annexed territory to deter the ongoing Western military aid that would enable such a counteroffensive.” However, Ukraine and its international backers have made clear that they will not accept negotiations at gunpoint and will not renounce Ukraine’s sovereign right to its territories. As Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba wrote on September 20, “Ukraine has every right to liberate its territories and will keep liberating them whatever Russia has to say.”[3] Where does this leave Putin, then, and what are the actual prospects for the Russian use of nuclear weapons?
*ISW cannot forecast the point at which Putin would decide to use nuclear weapons. Such a decision would be inherently personal, but Putin’s stated red lines for nuclear weapon use have already been crossed in this war several times over without any Russian nuclear escalation. *Reported Ukrainian cross-border raids into Belgorod Oblast and strikes against Russian-occupied Crimea could arguably meet the stated Russian nuclear use threshold of “aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy.”[4] Putin framed Ukraine as posing an existential threat to Russian sovereignty repeatedly at the start of his full-scale invasion—a phrase that meets that stated threshold: “For our country, it is a matter of life and death, a matter of our historical future as a nation. … It is not only a very real threat to our interests but to the very existence of our state and to its sovereignty. It is the red line which we have spoken about on numerous occasions,” he said on February 24.[5] Formal Russian nuclear doctrine is evidently not a deciding factor for Putin, who has reportedly been micromanaging this war down to the operational level.[6]
*Putin has set in motion two major means short of nuclear use through which he will try to achieve his objectives: partial mobilization to replace Russian losses, and wintertime energy pressures on Europe to deter European support. *He likely intends Russia’s ongoing mobilization to stabilize Russian positions and enable the temporary freezing of the conflict. He is unlikely to succeed; rushing thousands of untrained and unmotivated Russian men to the front will not meaningfully increase Russian combat power, particularly in places like western Luhansk oblast where the Ukrainian counteroffensives are making significant progress. Putin intends his second approach, curtailing natural gas exports to Europe, to fracture the Western consensus around supporting Ukraine and limit Western military aid to Ukrainian forces. This too is unlikely to succeed; Europe is in for a cold and difficult winter, yet the leaders of NATO and non-NATO European states have not faltered in their support for Ukrainian sovereignty and may increase that support in light of Russia’s illegal annexation even in the face of economic costs.[7] European states are actively finding alternatives to Russian energy and will likely be far more prepared by winter 2023.[8] *It is difficult to assess what indicators Putin will use to evaluate the success of either effort. But both will take considerable time to bear fruit or to demonstrably fail, time Putin will likely take before considering a nuclear escalation.
Putin would likely need to use multiple tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine to achieve his desired operational effect—freezing the front lines and halting Ukrainian counteroffensives. But the operational effect would need to outweigh the potentially very high costs of possible NATO retaliation. *Putin might try a nuclear terror attack against one or more major Ukrainian population centers or critical infrastructure in hopes of shocking Ukraine into surrender or the West into cutting off aid to Ukraine. Such attacks would be highly unlikely to force Ukraine or the West to surrender, however, and would be tremendous gambles of the sort that Putin has historically refused to take. Ukraine’s government and people have repeatedly demonstrated their will to continue fighting, and the West would find it very challenging simply to surrender in the face of such horrific acts because of the precedent such surrender would set. Putin is therefore far more likely to use nuclear weapons to change the operational environment, if he uses them at all. We assess Putin has two main tactical nuclear weapon use options: striking key Ukrainian ground lines of communication nodes and command centers to paralyze Ukrainian offensive operations, and/or striking major Ukrainian force concentrations near the line of contact. A single nuclear weapon would not be decisive against either of these target sets. Putin would likely need to use several tactical nuclear weapons across Ukraine to achieve significant effects and disrupt Ukraine’s ability to conduct counteroffensives. The scale of nuclear use likely required would raise the risks of Western retaliation, likely increasing the potential costs Putin would have to weigh against the likely temporary benefits the strikes themselves might provide.
*Russian nuclear use would therefore be a massive gamble for limited gains that would not achieve Putin’s stated war aims. *At best, Russian nuclear use would freeze the front lines in their current positions and enable the Kremlin to preserve its currently occupied territory in Ukraine. Russian nuclear use would not enable Russian offensives to capture the entirety of Ukraine (the Kremlin’s original objective for their February 2022 invasion). Russian military doctrine calls for the Russian Armed Forces to be able to effectively fight on a nuclear battlefield, and the “correct” doctrinal use of tactical nuclear weapons would involve tactical nuclear strikes to punch holes in Ukrainian lines, enabling Russian mechanized units to conduct an immediate attack through the targeted area and drive deep into Ukrainian rear areas.[9] The degraded, hodgepodge Russian forces currently operating in Ukraine cannot currently conduct effective offensive operations even in a non-nuclear environment. They will be flatly unable to operate on a nuclear battlefield. DNR/LNR proxy units, Wagner Group fighters, BARS reservist units, and the depleted remnants of the Russian conventional units that actually exercised fighting on a nuclear battlefield in annual exercises—not to mention newly mobilized replacements shipped to the front lines with less than a week of training—will not have the equipment, training, and morale necessary to conduct offensive operations following nuclear use. NATO is additionally likely to respond to Russian nuclear weapon use in Ukraine with conventional strikes on Russian positions there. Russian use of multiple weapons (which would be required to achieve decisive operational effects) would only increase the likelihood and scale of a Western conventional response.
*The more confident Putin is that nuclear use will not achieve decisive effects but will draw direct Western conventional military intervention in the conflict, the less likely he is to conduct a nuclear attack.*

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## Sineva

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Europe is gaining independence from Russia gas.


Yes,but how much more are they actually having to pay for the privilege of this "independence",or are they merely just switching dependence from one supplier to another?.

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## zartosht

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Europe is gaining independence from Russia gas.



definitly good on the euros 

they have gained "independence" from Russia by borrowing 200 billion dollars, ignoring their mandate to keep debt below a certain level, to barely survive the winter with the chancellor publicly saying we will "hopefully survive with some good luck in weather"

Germany is the only real productive euro country. Their industries are on government life support. Their gas companies had to be bought out by the government to avoid bankruptcy, and there is absolutely no plan for a couple of years down the road.

if independence means torching all your industries, and making them uncompettive, and going backwards in GDP, then eruope has achieved tremendous things.

Once germany economy sinks, and the economic engine of europe shuts down, the euro crashes and the service based deadbeat polands, baltics, and most of southern europe see their living standards return to ww2 era, then they will taste real independence. 

only a moron cant see what a catastrophic path the euro economy is going. and this is before any inevitable Russian retaliation on major European infrastructure, now that an extremely dangerous precedent has been set by the american terrorists.

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## Shawnee

What if Putin declares peace after this annexation? Is there western appetite for continuing the war?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Shawnee said:


> What if Putin declares peace after this annexation? Is there western appetite for continuing the war?



Putin is going to fight until the last Ukrainian dies from war. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Even after the last Ukrainian dies from war, Russia still have 100+ million people left. And then Russia will annex a completely empty Kiev.

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## TheNoob

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Putin is going to fight until the last Ukrainian dies from war. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Even after the last Ukrainian dies from war, Russia still have 100+ million people left. And then Russia will annex a completely empty Kiev.


That's horse's butt. 
I don't see any reason or motive in russia to gain the rest of Ukraine outside of Russian speaking areas.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

zartosht said:


> definitly good on the euros
> 
> they have gained "independence" from Russia by borrowing 200 billion dollars, ignoring their mandate to keep debt below a certain level, to barely survive the winter with the chancellor publicly saying we will "hopefully survive with some good luck in weather"
> 
> Germany is the only real productive euro country. Their industries are on government life support. Their gas companies had to be bought out by the government to avoid bankruptcy, and there is absolutely no plan for a couple of years down the road.
> 
> if independence means torching all your industries, and making them uncompettive, and going backwards in GDP, then eruope has achieved tremendous things.
> 
> Once germany economy sinks, and the economic engine of europe shuts down, the euro crashes and the service based deadbeat polands, baltics, and most of southern europe see their living standards return to ww2 era, then they will taste real independence.
> 
> only a moron cant see what a catastrophic path the euro economy is going. and this is before any inevitable Russian retaliation on major European infrastructure, now that an extremely dangerous precedent has been set by the american terrorists.



Russia has more resources than Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya combined.

NATO will get bigger bounty this time when Russia has been balkanized.



Sineva said:


> Yes,but how much more are they actually having to pay for the privilege of this "independence",or are they merely just switching dependence from one supplier to another?.



Russia has more resources than Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya combined.

NATO will get bigger bounty this time when Russia has been balkanized.

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## Wood




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## ziaulislam

jhungary said:


> I said a couple of post ago, if Russia do annex those territories, one of the way to deal with it is for Ukraine to file NATO membership, but as I said back then, this depends on whether or not Ukraine willing to give up (At least on the table) the land occupied by Russia. That's expected response by Zelenskyy
> 
> The Annexation would not change much to the ground situation, because the same nuclear problem exist, Russia will not nukee Ukraine because of the no-first use policy, it's because NATO response and it will literally blow back to Russia. You have to be foolish to think Putin wouldn't change its domestic policy to achieve his goal, which mean if he really do want to nuke Ukraine, he don't need to wait for annexing those territories first, he would have just go do it. And as I said before, annexing those territories is probably the most desperate move Putin have, because it literally tell everyone he does not have any mean to stop Ukrainian advance and have to put it into "special protection" which no one will actually care. If things goes Russia way, they would not speed up the annexation process like this.


Russian performance has been subpar and honestly diapaointing


Shawnee said:


> What if Putin declares peace after this annexation? Is there western appetite for continuing the war?


That's the plan...Putin is now focused
But he will need to conquer the 20% area first that's left


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## jhungary

Shawnee said:


> What if Putin declares peace after this annexation? Is there western appetite for continuing the war?


Putin can't "declare peace", because he didn't have physical ownership of those 4 territories or Oblast. 

I mean, what stop Ukraine from doing their own referendum on those 4 Oblast and come out with 96% favourable to remain in Ukraine? That didn't do much. On either side. 

Most people speculate that Putin did this so he can claim "Oh these provinces are now Russia, my mission is complete" that would be an off road for him. But then, it wouldn't do much because Ukrainian would keep fighting either out in the open or using irregular. That mean nothing has change on the situation on the ground.

On the other hand, Western Support will not stop in a short while, it all depends on US, if US keep supporting Ukraine, the rest will follow (plus the fact that US dwarf all EU members combine anyway). And there is no change at least until 2024 during Biden Presidency.


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## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> Russian performance has been subpar and honestly diapaointing
> 
> That's the plan...Putin is now focused
> But he will need to conquer the 20% area first that's left


That's quite foreseeable when we know they are going in alone. At the beginning people thought Belarus would be at least indulge into this, but no. And with Belarus out, Ukraine is too big for Russia to swallow. And it only leads to Ukrainian is swallowing Russia back. And this is pretty much the case now. 

But yes, while I do expect Russia will fail in this adventure, I did not expect they fail this miserably....

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574445462102241297

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## khansaheeb

TruthSeeker said:


> SPECIAL REPORT: ASSESSING PUTIN’S IMPLICIT NUCLEAR THREATS AFTER ANNEXATION​Sep 30, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Mason Clark, Katherine Lawlor, and Kateryna Stepanenko
> September 30, 12:45pm ET*​*Russian President Vladimir Putin did not threaten an immediate nuclear attack to halt the Ukrainian counteroffensives into Russian-occupied Ukraine during his speech announcing Russia’s illegal annexation of Ukrainian territory. *Putin announced Russia’s illegal annexation of Ukraine’s Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhia oblasts on September 30 even as Ukrainian forces encircled Russian troops in the key city of Lyman, Luhansk Oblast, immediately demonstrating that Russia will struggle to hold the territory it claims to have annexed. Putin likely intends annexation to freeze the war along the current frontlines and allow time for Russian mobilization to reconstitute Russian forces. The annexation of parts of four Ukrainian oblasts does not signify that Putin has abandoned his stated objective of destroying the Ukrainian state for a lesser goal. As ISW assessed in May, if Putin’s annexation of occupied Ukraine stabilizes the conflict along new front lines, “the Kremlin could reconstitute its forces and renew its invasion of Ukraine in the coming years, this time from a position of greater strength and territorial advantage.”[1]
> *Putin’s annexation speech made several general references to nuclear use that are consistent with his past language on the subject, avoiding making the direct threats that would be highly likely to precede nuclear use.* Putin alluded to Russia’s willingness to use “all available means” to defend claimed Russian territory, a common Kremlin talking point. Putin stated that “the US is the only country in the world that twice used nuclear weapons, destroying the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Incidentally, they created a precedent.” Putin stretched his historical allusions, stating that the United States and the United Kingdom demonstratively and without a military need destroyed many German cities during World War II with the “sole goal, just like in the case of nuclear bombardments in Japan, to scare our country and the entire world,” attempting to portray Western states as the true aggressor. Putin did not directly articulate any new red lines or overtly threaten to use a nuclear weapon against Ukraine if Ukrainian counteroffensives continue.
> *Putin is attempting to force Kyiv to the negotiating table by annexing Russian-occupied territory and threatening nuclear use.[2] He is following the trajectory that ISW forecasted he might on May 13. *As ISW wrote at the time: “A Russian annexation would seek to present Kyiv with a fait accompli that precludes negotiations on territorial boundaries even for a ceasefire by asserting that Russia will not discuss the status of (illegally annexed through military conquest) Russian territory—the argument the Kremlin has used regarding Crimea since 2014.” Predictably, Putin demanded that Ukraine return to negotiations in his September 30 speech announcing annexation and precluded any discussion of returning illegally annexed Ukrainian territory to Kyiv’s control: “We call on the Kyiv regime to immediately cease all fire and hostilities and end the war it initiated in 2014 and return to the negotiations table. We are ready for it and have said that several times. But the decision of the people in Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson we will not negotiate. This choice has been made and Russia will not betray it.”
> *Putin’s call for negotiations and implicit nuclear threats are aimed at both Ukraine and the West; he likely incorrectly assesses that his nuclear brinksmanship will lead the United States and its allies to pressure Ukraine to negotiate*. As ISW wrote in May: “The Kremlin could threaten to use nuclear weapons against a Ukrainian counteroffensive into annexed territory to deter the ongoing Western military aid that would enable such a counteroffensive.” However, Ukraine and its international backers have made clear that they will not accept negotiations at gunpoint and will not renounce Ukraine’s sovereign right to its territories. As Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba wrote on September 20, “Ukraine has every right to liberate its territories and will keep liberating them whatever Russia has to say.”[3] Where does this leave Putin, then, and what are the actual prospects for the Russian use of nuclear weapons?
> *ISW cannot forecast the point at which Putin would decide to use nuclear weapons. Such a decision would be inherently personal, but Putin’s stated red lines for nuclear weapon use have already been crossed in this war several times over without any Russian nuclear escalation. *Reported Ukrainian cross-border raids into Belgorod Oblast and strikes against Russian-occupied Crimea could arguably meet the stated Russian nuclear use threshold of “aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy.”[4] Putin framed Ukraine as posing an existential threat to Russian sovereignty repeatedly at the start of his full-scale invasion—a phrase that meets that stated threshold: “For our country, it is a matter of life and death, a matter of our historical future as a nation. … It is not only a very real threat to our interests but to the very existence of our state and to its sovereignty. It is the red line which we have spoken about on numerous occasions,” he said on February 24.[5] Formal Russian nuclear doctrine is evidently not a deciding factor for Putin, who has reportedly been micromanaging this war down to the operational level.[6]
> *Putin has set in motion two major means short of nuclear use through which he will try to achieve his objectives: partial mobilization to replace Russian losses, and wintertime energy pressures on Europe to deter European support. *He likely intends Russia’s ongoing mobilization to stabilize Russian positions and enable the temporary freezing of the conflict. He is unlikely to succeed; rushing thousands of untrained and unmotivated Russian men to the front will not meaningfully increase Russian combat power, particularly in places like western Luhansk oblast where the Ukrainian counteroffensives are making significant progress. Putin intends his second approach, curtailing natural gas exports to Europe, to fracture the Western consensus around supporting Ukraine and limit Western military aid to Ukrainian forces. This too is unlikely to succeed; Europe is in for a cold and difficult winter, yet the leaders of NATO and non-NATO European states have not faltered in their support for Ukrainian sovereignty and may increase that support in light of Russia’s illegal annexation even in the face of economic costs.[7] European states are actively finding alternatives to Russian energy and will likely be far more prepared by winter 2023.[8] *It is difficult to assess what indicators Putin will use to evaluate the success of either effort. But both will take considerable time to bear fruit or to demonstrably fail, time Putin will likely take before considering a nuclear escalation.
> Putin would likely need to use multiple tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine to achieve his desired operational effect—freezing the front lines and halting Ukrainian counteroffensives. But the operational effect would need to outweigh the potentially very high costs of possible NATO retaliation. *Putin might try a nuclear terror attack against one or more major Ukrainian population centers or critical infrastructure in hopes of shocking Ukraine into surrender or the West into cutting off aid to Ukraine. Such attacks would be highly unlikely to force Ukraine or the West to surrender, however, and would be tremendous gambles of the sort that Putin has historically refused to take. Ukraine’s government and people have repeatedly demonstrated their will to continue fighting, and the West would find it very challenging simply to surrender in the face of such horrific acts because of the precedent such surrender would set. Putin is therefore far more likely to use nuclear weapons to change the operational environment, if he uses them at all. We assess Putin has two main tactical nuclear weapon use options: striking key Ukrainian ground lines of communication nodes and command centers to paralyze Ukrainian offensive operations, and/or striking major Ukrainian force concentrations near the line of contact. A single nuclear weapon would not be decisive against either of these target sets. Putin would likely need to use several tactical nuclear weapons across Ukraine to achieve significant effects and disrupt Ukraine’s ability to conduct counteroffensives. The scale of nuclear use likely required would raise the risks of Western retaliation, likely increasing the potential costs Putin would have to weigh against the likely temporary benefits the strikes themselves might provide.
> *Russian nuclear use would therefore be a massive gamble for limited gains that would not achieve Putin’s stated war aims. *At best, Russian nuclear use would freeze the front lines in their current positions and enable the Kremlin to preserve its currently occupied territory in Ukraine. Russian nuclear use would not enable Russian offensives to capture the entirety of Ukraine (the Kremlin’s original objective for their February 2022 invasion). Russian military doctrine calls for the Russian Armed Forces to be able to effectively fight on a nuclear battlefield, and the “correct” doctrinal use of tactical nuclear weapons would involve tactical nuclear strikes to punch holes in Ukrainian lines, enabling Russian mechanized units to conduct an immediate attack through the targeted area and drive deep into Ukrainian rear areas.[9] The degraded, hodgepodge Russian forces currently operating in Ukraine cannot currently conduct effective offensive operations even in a non-nuclear environment. They will be flatly unable to operate on a nuclear battlefield. DNR/LNR proxy units, Wagner Group fighters, BARS reservist units, and the depleted remnants of the Russian conventional units that actually exercised fighting on a nuclear battlefield in annual exercises—not to mention newly mobilized replacements shipped to the front lines with less than a week of training—will not have the equipment, training, and morale necessary to conduct offensive operations following nuclear use. NATO is additionally likely to respond to Russian nuclear weapon use in Ukraine with conventional strikes on Russian positions there. Russian use of multiple weapons (which would be required to achieve decisive operational effects) would only increase the likelihood and scale of a Western conventional response.
> *The more confident Putin is that nuclear use will not achieve decisive effects but will draw direct Western conventional military intervention in the conflict, the less likely he is to conduct a nuclear attack.*


Seems like NATO is leading Ukraine to be nuked by pushing Russia into a corner. It is the equivalent of encouraging an unarmed man to fight someone with a knife, we know what the outcome will be. We know the consequence of the mobilisation of poorly trained Russian soldiers into the Ukraine quagmire. Should the Russian suffer consecutive defeats with Ukrainian/NATO army piling on the Ukrainian / Russia border could cause a Vodka infused Putin to launch a bloody launch of tactical nukes to break the back of the hostile forces. No doubt the US will push the EU to a hesitant declaration of war which will spiral into the next size of nuke weapons use. It is sad times when the world said never again 77 years ago that nuking countries is talked about in a cavalier manner by people detached from human suffering.

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## jhungary

Shit just got real


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572377515020124161
Report saying NATO Air Asset is now in "Dark" mode. ie IFF only, no transponder. @gambit knows what it means.......

I don't think NATO did this in Iraq and Afghanistan....

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Shit just got real
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572377515020124161
> Report saying NATO Air Asset is now in "Dark" mode. ie IFF only, no transponder. @gambit knows what it means.......
> 
> I don't think NATO did this in Iraq and Afghanistan....


NATO can smell Russian blood and are going to lead the hunt?


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## BHAN85

jhungary said:


> Shit just got real
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572377515020124161
> Report saying NATO Air Asset is now in "Dark" mode. ie IFF only, no transponder. @gambit knows what it means.......
> 
> I don't think NATO did this in Iraq and Afghanistan....



Are so crappy Russian radars that they can't track NATO airplanes without ADS-B transponders?

It seems more a psychological measure than a real useful thing.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> NATO can smell Russian blood and are going to lead the hunt?


More likely to prepare for Alpha Strike if shit really got real.



BHAN85 said:


> Are so crappy Russian radars that they can't track NATO airplanes without ADS-B transponders?
> 
> It seems more a psychological measure than a real useful thing.


You forget that NATO have a lot of Electronic Warfare Asset in the area. It's one thing to pinpoint NATO airbase and see plane takes off and land on Primary Radar, another issue whether or not Russia can see them airborne with EW asset like EC-130H, EG-18G and E-8A do the work. 

And judging from their ability to seek and destroy Ukrainian Air/Ground asset. I will say the probably of them picking NATO task group up is more or less zero.

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## jhungary

Russia will take weeks to take the first Phase line (North of Kyiv, Chernihiv, Sumy, Kharkiv down to South Central) and then get stuck on the way to Kyiv on a 3-pronged strike. From Chernobyl Power Plant, From Lutsk to Zhytomyr, and from Chernihiv) The assessment was they can get to Kyiv but can't take the city. And they will lose a lot of people doing it.

They are maybe able to take the approach up to Dnieper River, and maybe surrounding Kyiv, but they cannot take the entire Ukraine.






Why am I telling you what we already know? Look at the date of that video. It was made on February 19, 2022. 5 Days before the invasion.

Malcome Nance is a military intel guy, and he is right on all counts (except Russia did not come from Lutsk but chose a closer route to Zhytomyr.) And that's what a real Military Intel guy is like. Not the like of Scott Ritter.

And in fact, he is probably one of more optimistic analyst there are, even I have a more Pessimistic view if you had followed my post since the war.

@Viet @patero @F-22Raptor @Vergennes @aviator_fan @Wood @RoadAmerica @RescueRanger @nahtanbob @sammuel @Broccoli @ZeGerman @Paul2 @KAL-EL @James David @FuturePAF @MeFishToo

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## oberschlesier

Well, Ukraine is slowly gaining the initiative, which is good and anticipate ed.


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## Viet

925boy said:


> even after China's help?


China would help Russia in building a domestic automobile industry? Ok, we will see. I don’t think chinese are dumb, but if they do it they will face secondary sanctions.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Europe is gaining independence from Russia gas.


Russia gas just makes up 8 percent, 92 percent from other countries. Putin has destroyed the source of revenue he needs it.

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## ziaulislam

jhungary said:


> That's quite foreseeable when we know they are going in alone. At the beginning people thought Belarus would be at least indulge into this, but no. And with Belarus out, Ukraine is too big for Russia to swallow. And it only leads to Ukrainian is swallowing Russia back. And this is pretty much the case now.
> 
> But yes, while I do expect Russia will fail in this adventure, I did not expect they fail this miserably....


Belarus?? Lol what?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575872845284257792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575899100767141888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575845131176902656

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## v9s

jhungary said:


> Shit just got real
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572377515020124161
> Report saying NATO Air Asset is now in "Dark" mode. ie IFF only, no transponder. @gambit knows what it means.......
> 
> I don't think NATO did this in Iraq and Afghanistan....


The tweet is from 21st Sept - what are you implying.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575878133454028801

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## gambit

BHAN85 said:


> Are so crappy Russian radars that they can't track NATO airplanes without ADS-B transponders?
> 
> It seems more a psychological measure than a real useful thing.


IFF and ADS-B are identical in theory but different in application.

In theory, both IFF and ADS-B can, and usually does, works in conjunction with radar scanning. Basically, the radar scan pick up a target and at the same time transmits a unique query that essentially asks 'Who/what are you?'. The target then respond 'American Airline 123', or something similar.

In application is where they differ and will mean the difference between life and death. Assume that I am an F-16. If you query me with that question 'Who/what are you?', I can tell if that query came from an IFF or ADS-B interrogator. If *YOU* are an IFF interrogator, I will respond. But if *YOU* are an ADS-B interrogator, I will not respond.






ADS-B Out Explained


ADS-B is business jet technology that will eventually replace radar as the primary method for Air Traffic Control (ATC) monitoring and separation of aircraft worldwide.




txtav.com





ADS-B allows equipped aircraft and ground vehicles to broadcast their identification, position, altitude and velocity to other aircraft and ATC. This is called *ADS-B Out*. Being able to receive this information is known as *ADS-B In*.​
ADS-B Out is when I broadcast 'Who/what' to everybody. I do not care if there is anyone to receive that broadcast.

ADS-B In is when I am able to receive any/all 'Who/what' broadcast from anyone, and what I do with that info is my business.

ADS-B In or Out is not IFF.

The IFF hardware does not recognize the ADS-B interrogator signal. The IFF transponder does not ignore that query, it simply does recognize it. You cannot ignore something that you do not know, in other words, you have to know me in order to ignore me. Get it?

The IFF transponder recognize certain unique signal characteristics. It can tell if the interrogator is 'Friend' or 'Foe'. If the interrogator is 'Friend', then it will respond. But if the interrogator is unknown, the default assumption will be 'Foe' and the transponder will remain silent.

So the issue is not how 'crappy' are the Russian radars. They can be first class for all we know. But all a radar does is make skin contact, nothing more. It requires *COOPERATION* from the target to give that 'Who/what' info. That is why ADS-B is called a cooperative air traffic control system.

So if NATO flyers are in 'dark' mode, they are known to each other, but not to the outside world. Any radar belonging to anyone can see a bunch of 'blips' all over the scope but that will be it. Nothing more. Each 'blip' will have the minimum of heading, airspeed, and altitude info. Nothing more. On the other hand, a NATO AWACS, for example, would have more identifying markers for all those 'blips', as to which country the target belongs to and what are their purposes.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> 15-30% depends on items.
> 
> Electricity went up the lowest around 9%, otherwise everyday supermarket item went up ~15% and luxury item was the worse.


I think Russia inflation is higher. Much higher. Europe’s energy cost rises by 10 folds. There is no reason why Russia increase of cost of living is not the same level. Not all but at least 10 folds in major items. Russia can’t import or export anything from and to the West. Look at Iran, venezuela, Cuba, inflation rate is about 1,000 percent.

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## A.P. Richelieu

jhungary said:


> Putin can't "declare peace", because he didn't have physical ownership of those 4 territories or Oblast.
> 
> I mean, what stop Ukraine from doing their own referendum on those 4 Oblast and come out with 96% favourable to remain in Ukraine? That didn't do much. On either side.
> 
> Most people speculate that Putin did this so he can claim "Oh these provinces are now Russia, my mission is complete" that would be an off road for him. But then, it wouldn't do much because Ukrainian would keep fighting either out in the open or using irregular. That mean nothing has change on the situation on the ground.
> 
> On the other hand, Western Support will not stop in a short while, it all depends on US, if US keep supporting Ukraine, the rest will follow (plus the fact that US dwarf all EU members combine anyway). And there is no change at least until 2024 during Biden Presidency.


Ukraine does not need to do a referendum.
They can simply announce that they have annexed the territories…


----------



## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> More likely to prepare for Alpha Strike if shit really got real.
> 
> 
> You forget that NATO have a lot of Electronic Warfare Asset in the area. It's one thing to pinpoint NATO airbase and see plane takes off and land on Primary Radar, another issue whether or not Russia can see them airborne with EW asset like EC-130H, EG-18G and E-8A do the work.
> 
> And judging from their ability to seek and destroy Ukrainian Air/Ground asset. I will say the probably of them picking NATO task group up is more or less zero.


You can't be serious? What game is being played?

Alpha strike (United States Navy)​From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





__





Alpha strike (United States Navy) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Jump to navigationJump to search
*Alpha strike* is a term used by the United States Navy to denote a large air attack by an aircraft carrier air wing, first coined during the Vietnam War.[1] It is the Navy's version of the more widely used term "strike package."
An Alpha strike is typically a large strike representing a "deck load" of aircraft, i.e. the number of aircraft that can be brought to the flight deck, armed and launched against a high-value target. This will generally amount to about half of the aircraft aboard and will comprise aircraft from all squadrons on board and are also referred to as airwing-size strikes. The other half will normally have been recently recovered aircraft and will be parked and prepared for their next mission on the hangar deck below the flight deck. During an Alpha strike the carrier will remain into the wind and at General Quarters with a "ready deck" to recover any aircraft returning to the ship with battle damage. During the Vietnam War an Alpha strike also meant the target of a strike was specifically taken from a target list maintained by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and as such required JCS authorization.
The alternate form of carrier operations are "cyclic operations" during which a carrier will launch and recover aircraft (a launch and recovery is a complete cycle) on a prescribed schedule. Several factors will contribute to the length of a cycle depending on the type of aircraft, the time and distance to the target and the mission. With virtually all fast moving, jet aircraft aboard, carriers during the Vietnam War would launch and recover every 90 minutes and complete nine cycles daily over typically a 12- to 13-hour period. These carriers were generally assigned to Yankee Station located about 100 miles from the target area. When a carrier stood down after flight quarters another carrier would commence flight operations. Typically three and on rare occasions four carriers operated on Yankee Station and provided continuous fleet air operations around the clock. A carrier would typically be on the line for a "line period" of 30 to 35 days and then leave the line for six to eight days of rest and recreation. A deployment to the Western Pacific usually amounted to six line periods and typically lasted about 10 1/2 months including transit from and to the continental United States.
During the peak of the war a carrier typically launched 9,000 - 13,000 sorties. If a sortie may be used as a measure of activity, the periods from 1966 to early 1968 and 1970 to 1973 probably amounted to the most intensive level of combat flying in the history of naval warfare. Sometimes some very large air raids were staged by coordinating aircraft from three US Navy carriers in the Gulf of Tonkin and the US Air Force flying from airfields in Thailand. This could amount to 90 to 100 Navy aircraft and a similar number from the Air Force. During these very large raids either the Navy or the Air Force would strike first and the other service would re-strike the target 15 minutes later. The planning for these strikes was extensive, and typically a strike would remain over target no longer than two minutes in an effort to minimize losses in what was also the most intensive air defense system composed of fighters, anti-aircraft guns and missiles ever enco


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> You can't be serious? What game is being played?
> 
> Alpha strike (United States Navy)​From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alpha strike (United States Navy) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jump to navigationJump to search
> *Alpha strike* is a term used by the United States Navy to denote a large air attack by an aircraft carrier air wing, first coined during the Vietnam War.[1] It is the Navy's version of the more widely used term "strike package."
> An Alpha strike is typically a large strike representing a "deck load" of aircraft, i.e. the number of aircraft that can be brought to the flight deck, armed and launched against a high-value target. This will generally amount to about half of the aircraft aboard and will comprise aircraft from all squadrons on board and are also referred to as airwing-size strikes. The other half will normally have been recently recovered aircraft and will be parked and prepared for their next mission on the hangar deck below the flight deck. During an Alpha strike the carrier will remain into the wind and at General Quarters with a "ready deck" to recover any aircraft returning to the ship with battle damage. During the Vietnam War an Alpha strike also meant the target of a strike was specifically taken from a target list maintained by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and as such required JCS authorization.
> The alternate form of carrier operations are "cyclic operations" during which a carrier will launch and recover aircraft (a launch and recovery is a complete cycle) on a prescribed schedule. Several factors will contribute to the length of a cycle depending on the type of aircraft, the time and distance to the target and the mission. With virtually all fast moving, jet aircraft aboard, carriers during the Vietnam War would launch and recover every 90 minutes and complete nine cycles daily over typically a 12- to 13-hour period. These carriers were generally assigned to Yankee Station located about 100 miles from the target area. When a carrier stood down after flight quarters another carrier would commence flight operations. Typically three and on rare occasions four carriers operated on Yankee Station and provided continuous fleet air operations around the clock. A carrier would typically be on the line for a "line period" of 30 to 35 days and then leave the line for six to eight days of rest and recreation. A deployment to the Western Pacific usually amounted to six line periods and typically lasted about 10 1/2 months including transit from and to the continental United States.
> During the peak of the war a carrier typically launched 9,000 - 13,000 sorties. If a sortie may be used as a measure of activity, the periods from 1966 to early 1968 and 1970 to 1973 probably amounted to the most intensive level of combat flying in the history of naval warfare. Sometimes some very large air raids were staged by coordinating aircraft from three US Navy carriers in the Gulf of Tonkin and the US Air Force flying from airfields in Thailand. This could amount to 90 to 100 Navy aircraft and a similar number from the Air Force. During these very large raids either the Navy or the Air Force would strike first and the other service would re-strike the target 15 minutes later. The planning for these strikes was extensive, and typically a strike would remain over target no longer than two minutes in an effort to minimize losses in what was also the most intensive air defense system composed of fighters, anti-aircraft guns and missiles ever enco


Well, preparation......again, I have already stated, US will *NOT* sit by idle and wait for Russia to do first launch, most likely this is a response to increased tension to the region. 

You are talking about 100 to 200 sorties a day all of them gone dark, now, either it's just fun for these aviators to turn off their transponder, or they are making ready on something. And unlike Russia, NATO don't like to advertise what they are doing by repeatedly saying out loud, and I am guessing Russia should have known all NATO air asset in Eastern Europe has gone dark.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Ukraine does not need to do a referendum.
> They can simply announce that they have annexed the territories…


lol.....



Viet said:


> I think Russia inflation is higher. Much higher. Europe’s energy cost rises by 10 folds. There is no reason why Russia increase of cost of living is not the same level. Not all but at least 10 folds in major items. Russia can’t import or export anything from and to the West. Look at Iran, venezuela, Cuba, inflation rate is about 1,000 percent.


I don't know, that's what my friend told me before he left Russia.


----------



## jhungary

v9s said:


> The tweet is from 21st Sept - what are you implying.


Well, they are still dark as of a few days ago, and I am implying what I am implying.



ziaulislam said:


> Belarus?? Lol what?


Well, set aside training and how Ukrainian fought, because that we know after the war had happened. Belarus has 70,000 Active Troop and 300,000 reported reserves with conscript. That's a good chunk of manpower there. Let's say on war footing, Belarus mobilises 1/3 of those reserve, you are talking about 150,000 men on one flank.

Imagine it was Belarus troop that attack Ukraine from the North, maybe couple with some Russian unit like VDV or Spetsnaz, that will free up 2 or even 3 army to attack somewhere, can Ukraine handle that seismic shift? I don't know, but numerically, that will bring the troop number in Ukraine to roughly 400,000, that's more than enough on table to overwhelm the Ukrainian defender if Russia fought smart.


----------



## aviator_fan

How has Russia not yet blocked exit of males leaving the country? Incompetence or compassion? Doesn't make sense: if you arrest journalists or protestors, why not go all in and prevent 20-40 year old males from leaving



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia never accepted Kosovo referendum as legit, calling it a big farce orchestrated by Americans.
> 
> Russia's plan is to therefore kill off every Ukrainian by war and take Kiev. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukrainian. Even if every Ukrainian dies from war, Russia still have 100+ million people left


Brainless argument you cut and paste so you have a negative score. It makes you sound uninformed. Japan took over eastern china with 1/10th of the population.

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> How has Russia not yet blocked exit of males leaving the country? Incompetence or compassion? Doesn't make sense: if you arrest journalists or protestors, why not go all in and prevent 20-40 year old males from leaving


There were orders not to let anyone with Draft order out. And report stating that some airport bar male passenger between a certain age (Not necessarily 20-40) from boarding a plane. 

Was watching Inside_Russia streams the day he left Russia, he said he saw 5 men in front of him got lead away from border post.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Japan took over eastern china with 1/10th of the population.



False. China did not have Manchuria during WW2.



aviator_fan said:


> How has Russia not yet blocked exit of males leaving the country? Incompetence or compassion? Doesn't make sense: if you arrest journalists or protestors, why not go all in and prevent 20-40 year old males from leaving



Russia is a free country. If cowards want to leave, they can do so. The ones who remain are war mongers. There's no point having cowards in the army. They only bring down the whole army. There's a good saying. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

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## aviator_fan

Sineva said:


> Yes,but how much more are they actually having to pay for the privilege of this "independence",or are they merely just switching dependence from one supplier to another?.


Independence from Russian gas not gas as a source of energy



MH.Yang said:


> Thank you, Biden. Thank Hillary. We have just received news from the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
> 
> All 8 scientists from the research team of brain matrix and cellular neuroimaging technology of MPG (Max-Planck-Gesellschaft zur F&ouml;rderung der Wissenschaften e.V.) Institute of Neuroscience in Germany have joined the Research Center for Brain Science and Intelligent Technology of Chinese Academy of Sciences.
> 
> Eight top scientists from Germany have submitted their nationality applications to the Chinese government through the channel of China's special talent introduction program. It is expected that they will acquire Chinese nationality within two years.
> 
> 
> European politicians are having a good time. But really smart Europeans have started voting with their feet.
> 
> View attachment 883817
> View attachment 883818
> View attachment 883819
> View attachment 883820


How can somebody so intelligent with this information not have the presence of mind to use the search function and find the correct thread to post this. Whats the connection with the title of Russia-Ukraine war? Other than you just being lazy


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> False. China did not have Manchuria during WW2.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is a free country. If cowards want to leave, they can do so. The ones who remain are war mongers. There's no point having cowards in the army. They only bring down the whole army. There's a good saying. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.


Japan had most of eastern part of China. So none of that was part of China? Thats what the history books tell you or choose to ignore: these are the cities Japan occupied: Jiangsu, Shanghai, Shandong, Hebei, Beijing, Tianjin, plus parts of : Guangdong, Guangxi, Hubei, Hunan, Fujian, Guizhou, Inner Mongolia

The warmongers will surrender faster than these cowards would have when they make first .



925boy said:


> in your mind or in reality?
> 
> Oh yes they do, especially if you live in reality, like most of us.
> 
> THen why so much inflation and debt in the US economy?
> 
> It doesnt have to be- its already heavily involved in another war in UKraine.
> 
> ha ha ..and then what about "contingencies" for war with CHina, Iran, North Korea?? no plan? thats why you lose wars, blockhead, you fight with ego, not logic.
> 
> me too
> 
> we've spent alot already so far, but ok.
> 
> somewhat, but not fully or accurately.


Every country is running on debt. China's entire economy is tied up in property: so much for industrialization. No developed coutnry is immune from debt. The difference of course is most of the world still wants USD. So more money just gets printed.

N. Korea is no different than taking over Iraq except more backward in its military. ANd it didn't take a million man army to do that.

In your dreams you think if war occurs with N. Korea, the path to get to its nuclear weapons will be via infantry than you are wrong. Most of that will have to be neutralized by air. Much like Iraq's famous battle hardened Rpublican guard was decimated mostly by air


----------



## Viet

aviator_fan said:


> Independence from Russian gas not gas as a source of energy
> 
> 
> How can somebody so intelligent with this information not have the presence of mind to use the search function and find the correct thread to post this. Whats the connection with the title of Russia-Ukraine war? Other than you just being lazy


Some unknown scientist losers from a German institute want to migrate to China (probably because the electricity bill is lower) but he celebrates the news as evidence doom of western civilization.

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## jhungary

Was watching the latest troop movement on OSINT.

Looks like Ukraine have moved another 4 Brigades into Donetsk around Lyman and Kupiansk. Now there are 4 Brigade in Kupiansk (3rd Tank, 113 TDF, 92nd Mech and 80 Airmobile (the latter two were in the push in Kharkiv at the beginning of September) another 4 around Lyman (25 Airborne, 81 Airmobile, 79 Airmobile and 103 TDF) If and when Lyman is taken, some give it 24 hours some give it 72. There will be 8 Brigades on the continuous line between Lyman and Kupiansk. All converged toward Svatove......

What I found strange is that they have moved 93rd to north of Bakhmut and they moved 54 up north to North of Siversky. 54 is based in Bakhmut, it's garrison is Bakhmut, I would imagine the defence of of Bakhmut is hinged on 54. But they moved up, now 54 is facing Lysychansk.


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## MeFishToo

Source (War in Ukraine)
My goto source about Ukraine is describing the situation in the Lyman area like this:





Lyman encircled, Torske area resemples small pocket and being reinforced by regiment refitted with mobilized troops. Either they set up withdrawal from Lyman or Russia is trying to push Ukraine northwest of Torske area holding on to Lyman.


----------



## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Well, they are still dark as of a few days ago, and I am implying what I am implying.
> 
> 
> Well, set aside training and how Ukrainian fought, because that we know after the war had happened. Belarus has 70,000 Active Troop and 300,000 reported reserves with conscript. That's a good chunk of manpower there. Let's say on war footing, Belarus mobilises 1/3 of those reserve, you are talking about 150,000 men on one flank.
> 
> Imagine it was Belarus troop that attack Ukraine from the North, maybe couple with some Russian unit like VDV or Spetsnaz, that will free up 2 or even 3 army to attack somewhere, can Ukraine handle that seismic shift? I don't know, but numerically, that will bring the troop number in Ukraine to roughly 400,000, that's more than enough on table to overwhelm the Ukrainian defender if Russia fought smart.


If Belarus intervene then no doubt NATO will intervene. Also NATO could be readying for a pre-emptive strike on Belarus, which is understandable and then an invasion of Kaliningrad and barter for occupied Ukraine.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nuclear fuel cycle - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
> 
> 
> The nuclear fuel cycle including uranium mines, uranium mills, nuclear fuel fabrication, and nuclear waste storage and disposal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eia.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 883777
> 
> The existence of a 5MW (peanuts) reactor which uses higher concentration is not of importance. Swedish commercial reactors have 2500-3500 MW and then you do not use Highly Enriched Uranium.


have any complain go make it to uncle Sam that built it for us . its how it work , and its our only means to produce radionucleotides needed to treat and diagnose disease for more than 2,000,000 people each year , so sorry we don't let it shutdown again



Viet said:


> this Lada?
> A perfect choice for people that want to commit suicide.
> No board computer, no anti brake blocking system, no electric window lifter, no emission control system, no servo steering, old steering wheel from previous Lada.


the only useful feature for suicide is no anti brake blocking system, the no emission control is good for genocide , the rest useless feature for the purpose

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Since 1949.
> 
> Otherwise how NATO admit West Germany when there are still a "East Germany"


did they had border dispute ? I doubt so


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> did they had border dispute ? I doubt so


So what is Berlin Blockade??

And you are talking about Hostilities, it does not have to be border dispute


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575999782253785088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576095352804937728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575972253254135812

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576115668184797185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575813458184273921
Russian soldiers fled while wearing blue armbands in hope they wouldn't get caught.....



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575798361474883585


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> So what is Berlin Blockade??
> 
> And you are talking about Hostilities, it does not have to be border dispute


Berlin was not a border dispute , it was an ill taught dividing a city between two camp ,all party agreed were exact border was, it ended in may 1949, Germany officially joined NATO in 5 May 1955



jhungary said:


> Putin can't "declare peace", because he didn't have physical ownership of those 4 territories or Oblast.


no there is no peace declaration as no war declared yet , they may declare cease fire a


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576045751209431040

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> Berlin was not a border dispute , it was an ill taught dividing a city between two camp ,all party agreed were exact border was, it ended in may 1949, Germany officially joined NATO in 5 May 1955
> 
> 
> no there is no peace declaration as no war declared yet , they may declare cease fire a


Again, it does not have to be a border dispute......

And is Ukrainian joining NATO now? Or is NATO membership were given to Ukrainian now? The Hostilities ALWAYS preceded the application. Otherwise, what are you seeking protection from?? A dispute/hostilities you know is going to happened??


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## SecularNationalist

So finally the regions for which the special military operation was initiated by Russia are now officially party of Russia. The official annexation has been announced. 
A sad moment for those here who were giving bjs to uncle SAM. 
I've told that Russia is going to win. 
AND 
This is just the start slowly all of Ukraine will become part of Russia as historically it has been as a Slavic nation. 
A clear slap on the face of the west and for the Ukrainian to not get cosy with the EU and US. A message for Sweden and Finland as well to live as good neighbours or face the wrath of mighty Russia. 
Next target of Russia is all the coastal line of black sea and then perhaps kiev or the western border.

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## Vergennes

SecularNationalist said:


> So finally the regions for which the special military operation was initiated by Russia are now officially party of Russia. The official annexation has been announced.
> A sad moment for those here who were giving bjs to uncle SAM.
> I've told that Russia is going to win.
> AND
> This is just the start slowly all of Ukraine will become part of Russia as historically it has been as a Slavic nation.
> A clear slap on the face of the west and for the Ukrainian to not get cosy with the EU and US. A message for Sweden and Finland as well to live as good neighbours or face the wrath of mighty Russia.
> Next target of Russia is all the coastal line of black sea and then perhaps kiev or the western border.



Seeing Russia's amazing performance in Ukraine I'm pretty sure even Finland could handle those drunkards.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576097374883418112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576110403771211776

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## MeFishToo

SecularNationalist said:


> So finally the regions for which the special military operation was initiated by Russia are now officially party of Russia. The official annexation has been announced.
> A sad moment for those here who were giving bjs to uncle SAM.
> I've told that Russia is going to win.
> AND
> This is just the start slowly all of Ukraine will become part of Russia as historically it has been as a Slavic nation.
> A clear slap on the face of the west and for the Ukrainian to not get cosy with the EU and US. A message for Sweden and Finland as well to live as good neighbours or face the wrath of mighty Russia.
> Next target of Russia is all the coastal line of black sea and then perhaps kiev or the western border.


Officially those regions are part of Ukraine.

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## SecularNationalist

Vergennes said:


> Seeing Russia's amazing performance in Ukraine I'm pretty sure even Finland could handle those drunkards.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576097374883418112
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576110403771211776


Look at the bigger picture,don't find little clips of few soldiers to get the orgasm.


MeFishToo said:


> Officially those regions are part of Ukraine.


With no physical control.
Though in your wet dreams definitely they are part of Ukraine.


----------



## Vergennes

SecularNationalist said:


> Look at the bigger picture,don't find little clips of few soldiers to get the orgasm.
> 
> With no physical control.
> Though in your wet dreams definitely they are part of Ukraine.



The "bigger picture" ? Russia controls less territory than it did in march,were thrown out of Kharkiv,Sumy,Chernihiv,Kyiv,Mykolayiv lost its best troops in the process,has to rely on Wagner/"volunteers" and untrained and underequipped reservists to support its war effort. 

Russia in a matter of days/weeks is losing what it took them months and months to achieve. 

By declaring and incorporating bogus "republics" that never existed in the first place,the US and western world will only accelerate their arms deliveries,Russia's getting weaker every days while Ukrain's getting stronger. And before you say "muh Russia's fighting against NATO",they are only losing to our suplus stores as one once said.

NATO would absolutely obliterate those drunkards to the stone age.

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## jhungary

SecularNationalist said:


> Look at the bigger picture,don't find little clips of few soldiers to get the orgasm.
> 
> With no physical control.
> Though in your wet dreams definitely they are part of Ukraine.


You have to be really naive to think the war ends with Russian annexing those oblast.....

Especially Russia themselves does not have full control on all those oblast. And unlikely to gain ground.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576128217190387712


----------



## gambit

SecularNationalist said:


> With no physical control.
> Though in your wet dreams definitely they are part of Ukraine.


If you require physical control of territories, you just opened the doors for the legitimacy of conquests just for sheer territorial expansion. The inevitable corollary argument *WILL* be that if a country can lose physical control, then it does not deserve its sovereignty, and if a country can be proven even on paper that it can lose control, then strong countries do not need to threaten their weaker neighbors but just simply take what they want.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576131561711292418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576130135262040065


----------



## ZeGerman

SecularNationalist said:


> So finally the regions for which the special military operation was initiated by Russia are now officially party of Russia. The official annexation has been announced.
> A sad moment for those here who were giving bjs to uncle SAM.
> I've told that Russia is going to win.
> AND
> This is just the start slowly all of Ukraine will become part of Russia as historically it has been as a Slavic nation.
> A clear slap on the face of the west and for the Ukrainian to not get cosy with the EU and US. A message for Sweden and Finland as well to live as good neighbours or face the wrath of mighty Russia.
> Next target of Russia is all the coastal line of black sea and then perhaps kiev or the western border.


Hmm i think you lay in coma for a while. Maybe from day 3 of this special operation?

Please read through days 4-220…you will get updated that things are not so glorious for russia…

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## TNT

Seems shit may hit the fan. The Americans trying their best to push russia into making more mistakes. Well i hope russia nukes the US when shit hits the fan. America needs to learn a lesson, pushing others to war can burn ur own house.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Ich

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> West Germany and East Germany were carved up from Germany by the Allies after WW2 with Potsdam treaty. West Germany and East Germany were never at war.



Whereas it was not West Germany and East Germany but West Germany and Middle Germany. East Germany is still at stake.


----------



## SecularNationalist

Vergennes said:


> The "bigger picture" ? Russia controls less territory than it did in march,were thrown out of Kharkiv,Sumy,Chernihiv,Kyiv,Mykolayiv lost its best troops in the process,has to rely on Wagner/"volunteers" and untrained and underequipped reservists to support its war effort.
> 
> Russia in a matter of days/weeks is losing what it took them months and months to achieve.
> 
> By declaring and incorporating bogus "republics" that never existed in the first place,the US and western world will only accelerate their arms deliveries,Russia's getting weaker every days while Ukrain's getting stronger. And before you say "muh Russia's fighting against NATO",they are only losing to our suplus stores as one once said.
> 
> NATO would absolutely obliterate those drunkards to the stone age.





jhungary said:


> You have to be really naive to think the war ends with Russian annexing those oblast.....
> 
> Especially Russia themselves does not have full control on all those oblast. And unlikely to gain ground.





gambit said:


> If you require physical control of territories, you just opened the doors for the legitimacy of conquests just for sheer territorial expansion. The inevitable corollary argument *WILL* be that if a country can lose physical control, then it does not deserve its sovereignty, and if a country can be proven even on paper that it can lose control, then strong countries do not need to threaten their weaker neighbors but just simply take what they want.





ZeGerman said:


> Hmm i think you lay in coma for a while. Maybe from day 3 of this special operation?
> 
> Please read through days 4-220…you will get updated that things are not so glorious for russia…


I think by telling the truth I have put too much salt on your western wounds. I can see you are clearly in pain and frustration is touching the sky.
@Vergennes the parts of areas you claim to be retaken by Ukraine were in fact never a target of special military operation. Or even if lil ones are retaken , they will be taken back with brute force by russia BECAUSE now they are part of Russia.
Now those areas being officially declared part of Russia any future attempt of retaking them back will be considered an attack on mainland Russia and the response will be far more brutal than before. Now I hope NATO , US and EU won't be stupid to arm nazis in Ukraine because that means a direct confrontation with Russia, a confrontation the west can't afford to have.
What happened yesterday was a big big development which is going to alter the course of this conflict.
PERIOD.


----------



## jhungary

SecularNationalist said:


> I think by telling the truth I have put too much salt on your western wounds. I can see you are clearly in pain and frustration is touching the sky.
> @Vergennes the parts of areas you claim to be retaken by Ukraine were in fact never a target of special military operation. Or even if lil ones are retaken , they will be taken back with brute force by russia BECAUSE now they are part of Russia.
> Now those areas being officially declared part of Russia any future attempt of retaking them back will be considered an attack on mainland Russia and the response will be far more brutal than before. Now I hope NATO , US and EU won't be stupid to arm nazis in Ukraine because that means a direct confrontation with Russia, a confrontation the west can't afford to have.
> What happened yesterday was a big big development which is going to alter the course of this conflict.
> PERIOD.


And what happened today is Russia loses Lyman...And most likely Kreminna and Svatove by tomorrow. 

It seems like you are the one with too much salt on your wound. Not the Ukrainian or Us.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576151734732279808
Lyman is Ukraine!!

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576151734732279808
> Lyman is Ukraine!!


Shit, you beat me to it. 

I was going to post that after I post "Today Russian lost Lyman" to the other dude, but I got distracted by other post talking about M4s and 556 round......

Should not have done that...

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## Viet

The “endkampf “ at Lyman
5,000 russian troops are trapped at the city with no way out. Moscow general staff refused the retreat of the troops from the encirclement.
Ukraine says Only 3 options the russian troops try to break out, surrender or die.







© Foto: AP/dpa/Kostiantyn Liberov

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## Viet

The bridge to Lyman is destroyed. All ways in and out to and from the city are controlled by Ukraine army.

That would be a mass surrender of Russia troop since end of WW2.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> have any complain go make it to uncle Sam that built it for us . its how it work , and its our only means to produce radionucleotides needed to treat and diagnose disease for more than 2,000,000 people each year , so sorry we don't let it shutdown again
> 
> 
> the only useful feature for suicide is no anti brake blocking system, the no emission control is good for genocide , the rest useless feature for the purpose


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## A.P. Richelieu

SecularNationalist said:


> Look at the bigger picture,don't find little clips of few soldiers to get the orgasm.
> 
> With no physical control.
> Though in your wet dreams definitely they are part of Ukraine.


So any Pakistan claim to territory controlled by India is bogus?
Israel then have legal claim to the West Bank?
I doubt You will find many on PDF to agree with You.

Physical control has nothing to do with international borders

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 883879


Lol all at least one year or more after trump left it and European failed all of their obligation against iran in the JCPOA because they were afraid of usa, try harder. or you except you make a deal then you break it and the other party still follow its obligation .

western arrogance and hypocrisy at its fullest



A.P. Richelieu said:


> So any Pakistan claim to territory controlled by India is bogus?
> Israel then have legal claim to the West Bank?
> I doubt You will find many on PDF to agree with You.
> 
> Physical control has nothing to do with international borders


Israel opened the can by annexing occupied Golan . why don't talk about it , why not provide the same support for syria


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## Viet

How the picture has changed. In June Ukraine army retreated from Sjewjerodonezk, now in October the offensive may bring them back to the city.





Sjewjerodonezk im Juni: Ukrainischer Soldat kurz vor dem Rückzug. Bald könnte es umgekehrt gehen.


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## lydian fall

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 883879


Trump exited from JCPOA and triped sanctions


BTW if I had any power in Iran I would make tens of nukes and tested them on centcom bases

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## K_Bin_W

Sardar330 said:


> Trump exited from JCPOA and triped sanctions
> 
> 
> BTW if I had any power in Iran I would make tens of nukes and tested them on centcom bases


I salute you... Iran must join China and Russia and become one of the biggest economies with massive firepower both conventional and nuclear. No one gives the right or shyt about have and have nots.

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## lydian fall

K_Bin_W said:


> I salute you... Iran must join China and Russia and become one of the biggest economies with massive firepower both conventional and nuclear. No one gives the right or shyt about have and have nots.


Thank you my dear friend

I pray your wishes come true and very shiny future for Muslim countries

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## Viet

The entire northern Donbas front on verge of collapse. Russia offensive against Ukraine army at Bakhmut at southern front proves a strategic mistake.







UKRAINE-KRIEG​








Ukraine-Krieg: Schlachten um Lyman und Bachmut stehen exemplarisch für die strategischen Probleme der Russen


Die russischen Defensivlinien im Norden des Donbass stehen vor dem Kollaps. Das liegt auch am Festhalten an den verlustreichen Offensiven im Süden der Region.




www.handelsblatt.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576074565129838593


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## reflecthofgeismar

F-22Raptor said:


> I’m actually happy Putin is going all in. The West will throttle Russia until every last Russian depot is scraped and their back is broken in two, so that there’s no doubt about who got thoroughly humiliated and defeated.


With that casualty rate they would have not one tank left in 3 years.
But before that, they will run out of the better tanks.
Oh, and ofc of their crews...


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Is this true? 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576175252354179072

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## ZeGerman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576184572353871872
Again too many Orcs live to fight another day? Ukranians really need to work on taking advantage of pockets/fleeing units. 

This should have been a death highway.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

more Iskander artillery heading to the front


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576173057026424832
factory fresh T-90 M tanks


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576172815660699648
Ukrainians captured the Russian city of Lyman. It had a pre war population of about 20 thousand.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576159877650866176
bombing Odessa with drones


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576074400842989571

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## RoadAmerica

TNT said:


> Seems shit may hit the fan. The Americans trying their best to push russia into making more mistakes. Well i hope russia nukes the US when shit hits the fan. America needs to learn a lesson, pushing others to war can burn ur own house.


Oh yeh america started the super duper special operation. 
See how stupid you sound 
Then you top off your stupidity by wishing for nuclear war 🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️

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## 925boy

jhungary said:


> And unlikely to gain ground.


lets remember you said this in like 3-6 months. Ukraine IS getting ground out, despite all the NATO help- the WEst IS fatigued from helping Ukraine, even Us, thats the truth, they're just too proud and scared of all the losses given all the "investments "in Ukraine.


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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> It looks good. Ukraine artillery can continue to shell the separatists until they surrender or piss off.
> Will be critical in the next phases of the offensive.
> Ukraine needs 15,000 rounds of 155mm per week. US runs low on those ammos. Can Japan or South Korea deliver?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian servicemen fire an M777 howitzer, Kharkiv Region, northeastern Ukraine. This photo cannot be distributed in the Russian Federation.
> Vyacheslav Madiyevskyy | Future Publishing | Getty Images



A lessons learned for the on ammunition stocks they need for themselves for the future!!!!


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## TNT

RoadAmerica said:


> Oh yeh america started the super duper special operation.
> See how stupid you sound
> Then you top off your stupidity by wishing for nuclear war 🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️



The likes of u jumping here and ur govt pushing for conflict is evident. Only an idiot like u will be too gullible not to see it. 
The US been itching for this war, even there is video of biden talking abt it many years ago, u think ppl r stupid like u? The US is still pushing for more hostilities instead of working for peace or ceasefire. The US is the ugly evil pushing for use of nukes and i hope in the end the US eats it, so their stupid ppl learn a lesson.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576169801965527040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576173843453947904

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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> lets remember you said this in like 3-6 months. Ukraine IS getting ground out, despite all the NATO help- the WEst IS fatigued from helping Ukraine, even Us, thats the truth, they're just too proud and scared of all the losses given all the "investments "in Ukraine.


For the cost of a years afghanistan budget we see the complete demolition of russia as a near peer military power. 

And no we are not fatigued. What is given is mostly what can be missed. Infact, we should stop keeping so much stocks and treat ukraine as “forward defence” and donate more.

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## F-22Raptor

925boy said:


> lets remember you said this in like 3-6 months. Ukraine IS getting ground out, despite all the NATO help- the WEst IS fatigued from helping Ukraine, even Us, thats the truth, they're just too proud and scared of all the losses given all the "investments "in Ukraine.



The US is not tired at all. That’s a fantasy you keep telling yourself.

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## Vergennes

Shandrygolovo liberated


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576182322512031744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576175839846113281

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## Vergennes




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## Ali_Baba

*Inflation Hits Russia ...*










Families of Russian men called to fight Ukraine war bribed with SHEEP


Families of Russian men being called up to fight Putin's Ukraine war are being bribed with a sheep each. So far 91 live rams have been handed over to wives and mothers in Tuva republic.




www.dailymail.co.uk





*>> At first they were offering a LADA car for your son, now they are just offering a sheep !!!!!!! *

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> Lol all at least one year or more after trump left it and European failed all of their obligation against iran in the JCPOA because they were afraid of usa, try harder. or you except you make a deal then you break it and the other party still follow its obligation .
> 
> western arrogance and hypocrisy at its fullest


Feel free to show a list of obligations which the EU did not meet.


Hack-Hook said:


> Israel opened the can by annexing occupied Golan . why don't talk about it , why not provide the same support for syria


Noone recognizes the annexation of Golan.
Everyone knows that Syria is the original aggressor.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576223162358190081

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## RoadAmerica

TNT said:


> The likes of u jumping here and ur govt pushing for conflict is evident. Only an idiot like u will be too gullible not to see it.
> The US been itching for this war, even there is video of biden talking abt it many years ago, u think ppl r stupid like u? The US is still pushing for more hostilities instead of working for peace or ceasefire. The US is the ugly evil pushing for use of nukes and i hope in the end the US eats it, so their stupid ppl learn a lesson.


So facts:
The US didn’t start this war.
The US hasn’t threatened to use nukes 

And who’s the dummy

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> Berlin was not a border dispute , it was an ill taught dividing a city between two camp ,all party agreed were exact border was, it ended in may 1949, Germany officially joined NATO in 5 May 1955
> 
> 
> no there is no peace declaration as no war declared yet , they may declare cease fire a


That border agreement was in 1945. The matter did not end there. In 1948, Soviet Union blockaded the city and effectively wanted to starve it to submission. There is your dispute



Vergennes said:


> Seeing Russia's amazing performance in Ukraine I'm pretty sure even Finland could handle those drunkards.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576097374883418112
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576110403771211776


Finland was able to defeat the Russians back in the 1940s when the Russians were much stronger. Terrain harder, militarily just as strong. 

Unfortunately, Russian mindset is that of the 50s: send a few tanks to Hungary and you can take it over. That informed Putin's generals and not the more recent (NATO and Soviet) disasters with those approaches that jsut don't work any more



Sardar330 said:


> Thank you my dear friend
> 
> I pray your wishes come true and very shiny future for Muslim countries


newsflash: neither China or Russia are muslim countries. In fact they detest and suppress Islam.

May be Iran should start by either a) Condemning its dear friend for the oppression of muslims in Kashmir.
b) Since the b**lls to against Israel directly don't exist, may be stop goding Hamas with your second tier weapons to launch strikes against Tel Aviv only to see more Gazan civilians in the 1000s get slaughtered. All that blood is on your hands.

But your courage excels when it comes to beating your women!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576208153242312705
Russia confirmed to retreat from Lyman.

Now bring the hammer down to Svatove and Kremina

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## aviator_fan

TNT said:


> The likes of u jumping here and ur govt pushing for conflict is evident. Only an idiot like u will be too gullible not to see it.
> The US been itching for this war, even there is video of biden talking abt it many years ago, u think ppl r stupid like u? The US is still pushing for more hostilities instead of working for peace or ceasefire. The US is the ugly evil pushing for use of nukes and i hope in the end the US eats it, so their stupid ppl learn a lesson.


How do you figure the US 'eats' it. US has no moral standing against the annexation given how openly Israel is allowed to operate.

Separate your moral standing and emotion: US is not an angel. But Putin is no angel either. What he did the Chechnya . And more recently Putin's operations in western Syria. And its directly responsible through its outdated doctrine and substandard weapons for Arabs losing in every war with Israel to where Palestinians live in a permanent state of humiliation.

Unless you have a soft spot for beaten losers, and want to empathize with them. Putin is no better in interefering and killing muslims than US.

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## Wood



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## aviator_fan

ZeGerman said:


> Hmm i think you lay in coma for a while. Maybe from day 3 of this special operation?
> 
> Please read through days 4-220…you will get updated that things are not so glorious for russia…


Give him a break: he has been watching yesterday's Moscow annexation parade in a loop and really believes Russia has never had it better. Rest of Europe's fertility ratio is being solved as able bodies intelligent men leave and move there.



jhungary said:


> Shit, you beat me to it.
> 
> I was going to post that after I post "Today Russian lost Lyman" to the other dude, but I got distracted by other post talking about M4s and 556 round......
> 
> Should not have done that...


Sometimes you watch these tv ads that have disclaimers and terms adn conditions that effectively indicate exclusions to prevent misunderstandings.

I see Kremlin issuing a footnote to its annexation document where they have 'towns that are not part of the annexation'. That will be constantly updated as they lose the smaller towns.

Fortunately they can still us the Microsoft Word licenses from last year on the last laptops they will ever own to make these changes on a daily basis vs. to have to resort to a printing press

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576193457080582144


RoadAmerica said:


> The US didn’t start this war.



Prove it.

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## aviator_fan

SecularNationalist said:


> So finally the regions for which the special military operation was initiated by Russia are now officially party of Russia. The official annexation has been announced.
> A sad moment for those here who were giving bjs to uncle SAM.
> I've told that Russia is going to win.
> AND
> This is just the start slowly all of Ukraine will become part of Russia as historically it has been as a Slavic nation.
> A clear slap on the face of the west and for the Ukrainian to not get cosy with the EU and US. A message for Sweden and Finland as well to live as good neighbours or face the wrath of mighty Russia.
> Next target of Russia is all the coastal line of black sea and then perhaps kiev or the western border.


Yes this was the intent all along: good thing is you can recast the past as you wish but doesn't make it real.

For this original goal they had set the mission to be the replacement of the Nazi government and have an incompetent army with lines of armor in a single file go to Kiev? And lose its flagship in Black Sea and then home port the rest of the Navy and its Air Force.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576226277387902981

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576226108118179843
It looks like Ukraine has hit Belbek airfield in Crimea.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576166307263057922


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576229066952216576

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## monitor

Technically, if it's up to Putin declaration, *Lyman is now the first "Russain*" city to be returned back to Ukraine control. That was fast.


The latest update from Russian military blogger Rybar: "By the middle of the day it became obvious - the decision has been taken to withdraw forces and abandon Lyman" https://****/rybar/39615

Russia's Defense Ministry has confirmed Russia's withdrawal from Lyman, per @rianru and @tass_agency


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

monitor said:


> Technically, if it's up to Putin declaration, *Lyman is now the first "Russain*" city to be returned back to Ukraine control. That was fast.



True, but it's not a big city. It had a pre war population of about 20,000. It can be easily recaptured.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576228031168913410

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576149236202106880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576144390212706305


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576230939486982144
Looks like Russians fleeing Lyman were completely destroyed

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## Viet

Congrats to Ukraine army of taking Lyman

Well done!







An Ukrainian T-72 tank runs on a road near Lyman | Yasuyoshi/AFP via Getty Images

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576234022761472001

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## Viet

Embarrassing for Putin invasion army

Lyman is taken.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576159654056722433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576098083431063552

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## Ali_Baba

*Lyman FREE of Russian ORCS !!!!!!!*









Unleash nuclear weapons on Ukraine in wake of defeat in Lyman, Chechen warlord tells Putin


Ramzan Kadyrov calls for an intensification of the war after Vladimir Putin suffers another humilitating defeat




www.telegraph.co.uk





Congratulations to the defenders of Ukraine !!!! 

*Slava Ukraini !!!*

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## alimobin memon

Ok so whats next ? Didnt russian forces at lyman said they had to defend until putins speech ?


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## F-22Raptor

alimobin memon said:


> Ok so whats next ? Didnt russian forces at lyman said they had to defend until putins speech ?



Ukraine will push to the P66 to Svatove and Kremina to setup up flanking manuevers on Severodontesk and Lyschansk

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## TNT

RoadAmerica said:


> So facts:
> The US didn’t start this war.
> The US hasn’t threatened to use nukes
> 
> And who’s the dummy



Facts? Lolz the world is not black and white, its not a fairytale and the US is a devious evil state, with a history of doing such things, WMDs in iraq yeah? 
Yup the US hasn't threatened to use nukes but is the only country that have and is cornering Russia and pushing it to use nukes. Dummies dont realize what they r playing with, lives of millions of ppl.



aviator_fan said:


> How do you figure the US 'eats' it. US has no moral standing against the annexation given how openly Israel is allowed to operate.
> 
> Separate your moral standing and emotion: US is not an angel. But Putin is no angel either. What he did the Chechnya . And more recently Putin's operations in western Syria. And its directly responsible through its outdated doctrine and substandard weapons for Arabs losing in every war with Israel to where Palestinians live in a permanent state of humiliation.
> 
> Unless you have a soft spot for beaten losers, and want to empathize with them. Putin is no better in interefering and killing muslims than US.



I agree with that, putin is no better. A dictator and killer of muslims and im glad the whites r killing each other. But the point is, they r pushing the whole world into chaos. The US being super power should strive for ceasefire and peace and not be a cheerleader.

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## HorusRa

Belbek on fire, Lyman captured. 

lmao Orcs keep taking the L


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576242619683741698
Belbek was a plane crash with ammo onboard exploding

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## monitor

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> True, but it's not a big city. It had a pre war population of about 20,000. It can be easily recaptured.


very unlikely with the number of casualties of trained soldiers Russia losing it will be hard for Russia to regain any lost territory from the moraly-bosted Ukrainian army.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, SEPTEMBER 30​Sep 30, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*
Kateryna Stepanenko, Katherine Lawlor, Grace Mappes, Riley Bailey, George Barros, and Frederick W. Kagan
September 30, 8:30 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian President Vladimir Putin did not threaten an immediate nuclear attack to halt the Ukrainian counteroffensives into Russian-occupied Ukraine during his speech announcing Russia’s illegal annexation of Ukrainian territory. *ISW analysts broke down Putin’s speech in a separate September 30 Special Report: “Assessing Putin’s Implicit Nuclear Threats after Annexation.”
*Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the illegal Russian annexation of four Ukrainian territories on September 30 without clearly defining the borders of those claimed territories. *Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov declined to specify the borders of the newly annexed territories in a September 30 conversation with reporters: "[the] Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics [DNR and LNR] were recognized by Russia within the borders of 2014. As for the territories of Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts, I need to clarify this. We will clarify everything today.”[1] DNR head Denis Pushilin added that even the federal district into which the annexed territories will be incorporated remains unclear: “What will it be called, what are the borders—let's wait for the final decisions, consultations are now being held on how to do it right.”[2] Russian officials may clarify those boundaries and administrative allocations in the coming days but face an inherent problem: Ukrainian forces still control large swathes of Donetsk and Zaporizhia and some areas of Luhansk and Kherson oblasts, a military reality that is unlikely to change in the coming months.
Putin likely rushed the annexation of these territories before making even basic administrative decisions on boundaries and governance. Russian officials have therefore not set clear policies or conditions for proper administration. Organizing governance for these four forcibly annexed oblasts would be bureaucratically challenging for any state after Russian forces systematically killed, arrested, or drove out the Ukrainian officials who previously ran the regional administrations. But the bureaucratic incompetence demonstrated by the Kremlin’s attempted partial mobilization of Russian men suggests that Russian bureaucrats will similarly struggle to establish governance structures over a resistant and unwilling population in the warzone that is Russian-occupied Ukrainian territory.
*Putin announced that Russia’s usual autumn conscription cycle will start a month late on November 1, likely because Russia’s partial mobilization of Russian men is taxing the bureaucracy of the Russian military commissariats that would usually oversee the semi-annual conscription cycle*.[3] Putin’s September 30 decree calls for 120,000 Russian conscripts—7,000 fewer than in autumn 2021. Neither Putin’s decree nor subsequent official statements clarified whether Ukrainian civilians of conscription age (18-27) in Russia’s newly-annexed occupied Ukrainian territories will be liable for conscription. A representative of Russia’s Main Organizational and Mobilization Directorate, Rear Admiral Vladimir Tsimlyansky, claimed that no autumn 2022 conscripts would fight in the “special operation” in Ukraine, a promise Putin also made (and broke) about the autumn 2021 and spring 2022 conscripts.[4] Russian conscripts are not legally deployable overseas until they have received at least four months of training unless Putin were to declare martial law.[5] Russia’s illegal annexation of occupied areas in Ukraine likely removes this problem within the framework of Russian Federation law, which may be part of the reason for Putin’s rush in announcing the annexation.
*Russian officials could re-mobilize last year’s conscripts when their terms expire on October 1.* Tsimlyansky emphasized on September 30 that all Russian conscripts whose terms have expired—meaning those conscripted in autumn 2021—will be released from service and returned to their residences “in a timely manner.”[6] Once released, autumn 2021 conscripts will technically become part of the Russian reserves, making them legally mobilizable under Putin’s September 21 partial mobilization order.
*Putin invited some Russian milbloggers and war correspondents who have previously criticized the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) for a lack of transparency about Russian progress in Ukraine to attend his annexation speech in Moscow.*[7] Russian state media has been increasingly featuring some milbloggers on federal television channels as well, which likely indicates that Putin is attempting to secure the support of these nationalist and pro-war figures rather than censor them. The milblogger presence in Moscow may also explain why several prominent Telegram channels had limited or no coverage of daily frontline news on September 29.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the illegal Russian annexation of four Ukrainian territories on September 30 without clearly defining the borders of those claimed territories.*
*Putin announced that Russia’s usual autumn conscription cycle will start a month late on November 1, likely because Russia’s partial mobilization of Russian men is taxing the bureaucracy of the Russian military commissariats that would usually oversee the semi-annual conscription cycle.*
*Russian officials could re-mobilize last year’s conscripts when their terms expire on October 1.*
*Ukrainian forces will likely capture or encircle Lyman within the next 72 hours.*
*Ukrainian military officials maintained operational silence regarding Ukrainian ground maneuvers in Kherson Oblast but stated that Ukrainian forces continued to force Russian troops into defending their positions.*
*Russian troops continued ground assaults in Donetsk Oblast.*
*Russian authorities continued efforts to coerce Russian participation in mobilization efforts, but will likely struggle to coerce participation as Russians continue to flee Russia for border states who welcome them.*
*Russian officials are accepting bribes and engaging in other preferential treatment to prevent or ease the economic burden of mobilization on the wealthy.*
*Russian authorities are continuing to deploy mobilized personnel to Ukraine without adequate training or equipment, and personnel are unlikely to be able to afford to provide their own supplies.*
*Russian forces conducted a missile strike on a Ukrainian humanitarian convoy and attempted to blame the Ukrainian government.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Vovchansk-Kupyansk-Izyum-Lyman Line)*
Ukrainian forces will likely capture or encircle Lyman within the next 72 hours. Russian forces continued to withdraw from positions around Lyman on September 30 as Ukrainian forces continued to envelop Russian troops in the area.[8] The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) officials and Russian war correspondents stated that Russian forces still control Lyman but have withdrawn from their positions in Drobysheve (around 6km northwest of Lyman) and Yampil (about 13km southeast of Lyman).[9] Russian sources claimed that Russian forces still control one road from Lyman to Torske, while Ukrainian forces have cut off the Drobysheve-Torske road in the Stavky area.[10] Russian sources also noted the increasing activity of Ukrainian reconnaissance and sabotage groups on the Svatove-Torske highway northeast of Lyman after reportedly crossing the Zherebets River.[11] Geolocated footage also showed Ukrainian artillery striking withdrawing Russian forces near Torske.[12] Some Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces have crossed the Siverskyi Donets River in Dronivka and are now operating in the forests south of Kreminna.[13] Russian sources uniformly noted that Ukrainian artillery continues to interdict Russian forces’ single remaining egress route on the Kreminna-Torske road.[14]
Russian sources claimed that Russian forces are bringing additional reserves to reinforce Russian positions near Lyman, but some milbloggers criticized the Russian military command for failing to learn from its mistakes in Kharkiv Oblast. DNR Head Denis Pushilin claimed that Russian forces continued to deploy additional reserves to hold Lyman on September 30.[15] Russian milbloggers also reported that Russian forces deployed elements of the 503rd Guards Motorized Rifle Regiment of the 58th Combined Arms Army near Torske in an effort to break the encirclement in the area, noting that the unit is at least in part composed of newly-mobilized men.[16] Other milbloggers noted that elements of the Western and Central Military districts (WMD and CMD) are operating in the Lyman area alongside the Russian proxy republic units.[17] Many milbloggers claimed that the Russian withdrawal from Lyman resembles the chaotic retreat from Balakliya, Kharkiv Oblast, in its poor coordination and lack of artillery support.[18] Others stated that the Russian military command did not send necessary reinforcements and are instead firing rockets at Mykolaiv Oblast rather than helping the defense of Lyman.[19] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) only reported striking Ukrainian forces north of Lyman in Ridkodub and did not mention striking Ukrainian forces to the west, east, or south of Lyman.[20]
Ukrainian forces likely continued to make incremental advances around Kupyansk on the eastern bank of the Oskil River on September 30. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces shelled Petropavlivka (seven kilometers east of Kupyansk), which may indicate that Ukrainian forces are operating in the area.[21]
Ukrainian forces continued to strike Russian military targets in Luhansk Oblast on September 30. Geolocated footage showed the aftermath of Ukrainian reported HIMARS strikes on a television tower and a radio repeater in Starobilsk and at the asphalt plant near Alchevsk that reportedly housed Russian forces.[22]



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Ukrainian military officials maintained their operational silence regarding the progress of the Ukrainian counteroffensive in southern Ukraine on September 30. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian forces are continuing to force Russian troops to defend their positions. The Ukrainian General Staff added that Russian forces are continuing to evict civilians in Kherson City to quarter additional Russian reinforcements.[23] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command noted that Russian forces are attempting to restore the operations of the Antonivsky Bridge and are bringing additional construction materials and repair equipment to the bridge.[24]
Ukrainian forces continued their interdiction campaign on September 29 and September 30, primarily striking Russian ground lines of communications (GLOCs), positions, and ammunition depots in northern and central Kherson Oblast. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command stated that Ukrainian forces struck Russian military convoys in Nova Kakhovka, a command post in Beryslav Raion, and six Russian concentration areas in Kherson City, Nova Kakhovka, Dariivka, and Nova Kardashinka.[25] Ukrainian military officials added that Ukrainian forces targeted an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) control center in Davydiv Brid on the eastern bank of the Inhulets River.[26] Ukrainian and Russian sources reported that a Ukrainian strike on Kherson City killed Russian-appointed Kherson Oblast Deputy Occupation Administration Head Aleksei Katerinchev.[27] Local Telegram channels reported witnessing explosions in Nova Kakhovka, and Ukrainian strikes on the Elektromash factory in Nova Kakhovka and the area of the Kherson City shipyard.[28]
Ukrainian and Russian sources identified two areas of kinetic activity on September 30: south of the Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border and around the Ukrainian bridgehead over Inhulets River. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian forces discovered and repelled a small Russian sabotage and reconnaissance group in Osokorkivka (on the T0403 highway in northern Kherson Oblast), and the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces continued to strike Ukrainian positions in Osokorkivka.[29] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command also noted conducting unspecified ”successful actions in the area of Davydiv Brid and noted that Ukrainian forces “suppressed a Russian stronghold,” but this language is vague and can mean that Ukrainian troops conducted a ground attack in the area or inflicted bombardment damage on Russian positions.[30] A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces conducted a spoiling attack in anticipation of a Ukrainian attack on Davydiv Brid.[31] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian assault on Bezimenne (southeast of the bridgehead).[32]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on September 30 but did not make any confirmed territorial gains. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground assaults northeast of Bakhmut near Bakhmutske and south of Bakhmut near Vesela Dolyna (6km southeast of Bakhmut), Zaitseve (8km southeast of Bakhmut), Odradivka (9km south of Bakhmut), and Mayorsk (20km south of Bakhmut).[33] Russian sources also claimed that Russian forces conducted ground attacks in Bakhmut itself and near Soledar.[34] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces continued routine artillery, air, and missile strikes throughout the line of contact in Donetsk Oblast.[35]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole, and in Mykolaiv and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts on September 30.[36] Ukrainian and Russian sources reported that Russian forces struck Mykolaiv City, Zaporizhzhia City, Dnipro City, Nikopol, and Kryvyi Rih on September 30.[37] Ukrainian sources also reported that Russian forces fired Smerch multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) rockets near Ochakiv, Mykolaiv Oblast.[38] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces struck and destroyed a Russian command post and a Russian S-300 system in Melitopol and struck Russian positions in Tokmak on September 30.[39]
Russian forces continued to use Iranian-made drones to target Ukrainian positions and cities in Southern Ukraine on September 30. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces conducted two Shahed-136 drone attacks on an administrative building and a critical infrastructure facility in Mykolaiv City.[40] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command also reported that Ukrainian air defenses shot down three Russian Shahed-136 drones in Mykolaiv Oblast and two unspecified loitering munitions—likely also Shahed136 drones—in Odesa Oblast.[41]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Russian authorities continued efforts to coerce Russian participation in mobilization efforts. Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on September 30 that simplifies the citizenship process for foreigners who serve in the Russian military, further incentivizing foreigners to volunteer for military service.[42] A Russian source stated on September 30 that Russian authorities instituted a travel ban for Russian law enforcement and government personnel who have access to state secrets and are forcing these personnel to surrender their passports.[43] The source also stated that the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs is increasing target practice for its personnel to weekly, indicating Russian efforts to deploy more security service personnel to Ukraine, likely to act as security in occupied territories.[44] Duma deputies from the Republic of Bashkortostan submitted a draft bill to the Russian State Duma on September 30 that would legalize Russian military recruitment efforts in prison for the “special military operation,” taking 10 days off each prisoner’s sentence for each day served in Ukraine.[45] A Russian source reported that Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs personnel began detaining operators of Telegram channels that call for protests and trigger unrest and have likely coerced protest organizers in the Republic of Dagestan to issue public apologies for inciting protests.[46]
Russia will likely struggle to coerce participation in mobilization as Russians continue to flee Russia for border states that welcome them. The _Financial Times_ reported that Kazakh and Georgian officials have expressed willingness to welcome Russians fleeing to Kazakhstan and Georgia from forced mobilization, indicating that Russian influence in Central Asia and the Caucasus has degraded. The Kremlin likely cannot leverage its influence to coerce Kazakhstan and Georgia to return fleeing mobilized personnel to Russia.[47] Russians continue to flee Russia for Georgia and Kazakhstan, leaving behind their vehicles and even their families to escape mobilization.[48] Israeli officials reportedly called all Israeli military personnel who are dual citizens of Russia to return to Israel immediately, indicating international fear that Russia may mobilize people with dual Russian citizenship.[49]
Russian officials are accepting bribes and engaging in other preferential treatment to prevent or ease the burden of mobilization on the wealthy. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that officials in charge of the selection and preparation of mobilization in Khabarovsk Krai established a 100,000 ruble “tariff” for mobilized individuals to avoid mobilization, but this amount is unattainable for most Khabarovsk Krai residents.[50] The Russian Duma passed a law on September 30 that allows mobilized businessmen to apply for deferred loan payments, extensions on business transaction terms, and free account maintenance from their banks.[51]
Russian authorities are continuing to deploy mobilized personnel to Ukraine without adequate training or equipment. A Russian source reported on September 29 that mobilized personnel from Sverdlovsk Oblast stayed at a training center for one day before deploying to Russia’s border areas and did not indicate if these personnel would receive further training.[52] Russian authorities will likely redeploy personnel from border regions to areas in Ukraine as Russian efforts to advance and Ukrainian counteroffensives shift over time. A Russian source reported that Russian military authorities detained a Russian soldier who posted footage showing mobilized personnel from Perm Krai camped in a field in Volgograd Oblast without equipment necessary to weather the outdoors, but that Russian officials denied the detention.[53] Russian sources posted footage of mobilized personnel at training centers in occupied Donetsk Oblast with Soviet-era weapons and equipment.[54] The UK Ministry of Defense reported that Russia’s provision of medical supplies to mobilized personnel and personnel already in Ukraine is worsening and assessed that Russian forces likely have poor awareness of medical and first-aid training, exacerbating low Russian morale.[55]
Russian military personnel, especially newly mobilized personnel, are unlikely to be able to afford to provide their own supplies. A Russian source reported that prices for body armor in Russia have increased ten times since the partial mobilization announcement on September 21.[56] The source reported that mobilized personnel have purchased commercial body armor because they believe it to be more reliable than Russian military-issued equipment.[57] The Russian Anti-Monopoly Service ordered the tightening of price controls on military equipment and uniforms on September 30 to combat high equipment prices.[58] Russian authorities' decision to combat high costs of commercially-available equipment rather than provide quality equipment to Russian military personnel further emphasizes the ad hoc nature of Russian mobilization and the Russian government's failure to plan or provide for the sudden influx of personnel.
Regional Russian authorities continue to try to fix problems that result in the calling up of individuals ineligible for mobilization. A Russian source reported that Moscow Oblast authorities canceled some mobilization summons for wrongly mobilized men and have dedicated special groups in military recruitment offices to canceling the improper summonses.[59] Altai Krai authorities indefinitely postponed the dispatch of newly mobilized personnel originally scheduled to depart on September 30.[60] A local news outlet reported that Altai Krai authorities also created a commission for wrongly mobilized personnel and will resume mobilization efforts in mid-October.[61]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian forces conducted a missile strike on a Ukrainian humanitarian convoy and attempted to blame the Ukrainian government on September 30. Russian forces struck the humanitarian convoy outside Ukrainian-controlled Zaporizhzhia City, killing 28 civilians and wounding 88.[62] The convoy was reportedly waiting at a Russian checkpoint to enter Russian-occupied territory in Zaporizhia Oblast, possibly to transport Ukrainian civilians out of occupied territories.[63] The Russian-appointed head of the Zaporizhzhia Occupation Administration, Evgeny Balitsky, and other occupation officials claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted the attack in “revenge” for the Russian annexation of Zaporizhia Oblast and claimed the convoy was fleeing to Russian-occupied territory.[64] Russian forces may hope to restrict the movement of Ukrainian civilians in occupied areas; the Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on September 30 that occupation administration officials intend to prevent all movement into Ukrainian-held territory on October 1 and will introduce an unspecified system of temporary travel permits.[65]
Russian occupation officials continued efforts to mobilize Ukrainian civilians in occupied Ukrainian territories by force. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on September 30 that occupation authorities in Kherson City have increased their arbitrary detentions of fighting-age men, whom Russian forces then force into units that will soon be deployed to the frontlines.[66] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that additional Rosgvardia units deployed to Berdyansk to suppress expected unrest as occupation officials forcibly mobilize Berdyansk industrial workers. The Ukrainian mayor of Mariupol, Petro Andryuschenko, said on September 30 that Russian military officials stop men on the street to check their documents, and men registered in Donetsk Oblast are immediately mobilized and sent to the frontlines.[67] The Ukrainian mayor of Melitopol, Ivan Fedorov, said on September 30 that Russian occupation officials opened a military commissariat in Melitopol and intend to forcibly mobilize 3,000 “volunteers” from the city by October 10.[68] Fedorov reported that if a “volunteer” refuses conscription, he must bring another man to take his place.
Russian occupation officials intensified their efforts to eliminate Ukrainian influence and coerce citizens to cooperate with Russian administrators following Putin’s illegal annexation of occupied Ukrainian territories. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on September 30 that Russian occupation officials are forcing Ukrainian residents to obtain Russian citizenship and passports and are threatening to fire teachers who refuse to exchange their Ukrainian passports. Russian officials are reportedly confiscating Ukrainian passports and have threatened to deport those Ukrainian citizens who do not accept Russian citizenship by October 1.[69]
Occupation officials in Donetsk Oblast announced the confiscation of property from 144 Ukrainian officials from the Donetsk Oblast Administration and from various companies in Donetsk on September 30.[70] Occupation officials will likely either nationalize the property or distribute it to Kremlin-selected favorites as a reward for their support of Russia’s illegal annexation of the oblast.

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> The US is not tired at all. That’s a fantasy you keep telling yourself.


i can agree US is not tired, but i cant agree US is not tired ANd also accept US is not afraid, its one or the other.

no buildup around Iran due to no nuclear deal - US unable to stage xxx,xxx # of soldiers and required equipment
no buildup around CHina, or a decent one, not really good enough, only real situation will make many accept that as the truth, but US aircraft carrier ran last time to japan when tensions with Taiwan rose, so that gave us a sign of where things REALLY stand in the pacific.
-No actual NATO boots in Ukraine- this is the obv sign that NATo and US are actually afraid, because if they were not, WHERE ARE THEIR BOOTS ON THE GROUND? they're not afraid they will die are they? dont gimme that bullsht crap that Ukraine isnt NATO's war- whose war can it be then when Ukraine doesnt have the resources to keep the war its fighting going? reality will hit many next year.



ZeGerman said:


> For the cost of a years afghanistan budget we see the complete demolition of russia as a near peer military power.


lies - we will know you have demolished Russia's military when your cowardly ground forces are ready to beat Russian ground forces in a real conflict, Ukraine is your chance, but you've been too afraid to do it, so 0 NATO, 1 Russia.


ZeGerman said:


> And no we are not fatigued.


yes you are- funds running low, running into debt to get funds for Ukraine, worrired citizens will uprise due to high costs and sending too much $$ to Ukraine, action speaks louder than words, so your money is quiet- because you are a military coward who would rather drink win and eat burgers and visit your kids than fight for real freedom.


ZeGerman said:


> What is given is mostly what can be missed.


like HIMARS? thats a lie- US cant even make the HIMARS it promised Ukraine recently.


ZeGerman said:


> Infact, we should stop keeping so much stocks and treat ukraine as “forward defence” and donate more.


oh shut up, you will lose on the battlefield AGAIN, just like you did in the past few wars, and those wars were easier than this one, you've run into a one way problem! enjoy

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576252251571572736


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## 925boy

abn


Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Europe is gaining independence from Russia gas.


and gaining dependence on US gas? how is that better? thanks.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russia has more resources than Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya combined.


good you know that.


Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> NATO will get bigger bounty this time when Russia has been balkanized.


do you mean Ukraine or Russia? balkanization means a large country gets smaller, and that happened to Ukraine , not Russia, Russia got LARGER, so in reality, NATO's balkanization of RUssia (and Iran too) havent worked, you will have to try better, losers.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> The entire northern Donbas front on verge of collapse. Russia offensive against Ukraine army at Bakhmut at southern front proves a strategic mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UKRAINE-KRIEG​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: Schlachten um Lyman und Bachmut stehen exemplarisch für die strategischen Probleme der Russen
> 
> 
> Die russischen Defensivlinien im Norden des Donbass stehen vor dem Kollaps. Das liegt auch am Festhalten an den verlustreichen Offensiven im Süden der Region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.handelsblatt.com


Lyman felt, then next is Svatove, that's the key town which run MSR North-South, after Lyman, you are looking at 8 Brigades (32,000 men) facing off a degraded Russian division around 15,000, depends on how many Russian escaped Lyman, sources said up to 5,000 are trapped in Lyman, while I will say this is a bit optimistic, I will say if this is true, you are looking at 30,000 Ukrainian against 10,000 scatted Russian along Svatove - Kreminna Line. That will be going to be another rout. 

And after Svatove, Ukrianian target will no doubt be Starobilsk, which is what they really want, took Starobilsk and you take the rest of Northern Luchansk and threaten Luchansk City. 



925boy said:


> lets remember you said this in like 3-6 months. Ukraine IS getting ground out, despite all the NATO help- the WEst IS fatigued from helping Ukraine, even Us, thats the truth, they're just too proud and scared of all the losses given all the "investments "in Ukraine.


How about 2 years down the road? 5 years down the road? I have been saying all these since the beginning of the war 7 months ago, how about you really go remember what I said 3 to 6 months ago to see whether my prediction became true? I said US is going to send HIMARS back when HIMARS wasn't even known here on PDF. I said Ukraine is going to make Counter Offensive in the East when Russian still fighting for control in Sieverdonetsk back in May, I said Kherson counter offensive seems obvious for a distraction before they have been saying that for a long time back in August when Zelenskyy was talking about it before actually doing it in August. How many times I have been right since the beginning of the war? 

*PLEASE, DO FEEL FREE TO LOOK UP WHAT I SAID 3 TO 6 MONTHS AGO AND REMEMBER WHETHER OR NOT I AM RIGTH*. On the other hand, have you getting any right decision?

People have to be really dumb to buy what Putin said *WHEN ALL THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL*. Sure, according to him everything is A-OK since March to September as he said, "That's not a retreat, that's a planned troop movement, everything is going according to plan." How many times did he or that dude from MOD said that in the last 6 months. But then who call a general mobilisation on September 21? Sure, we lost 6000 soldiers, and everything is fine, I am just calling up 300,000 reserve who I send to the front line with 5 days of training and create a border issue where more men left Russia then the people I send to this war at the end of February. Sure, everything is A-OK according to him. 

Man, you people are really gullible.

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576252251571572736


a loss of such a high priced jet hurts Putin badly. Russia can’t produce jets anymore because of western sanctions on semiconductor, hightec, and everything else.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> a loss of such a high priced jet hurts Putin badly. Russia can’t produce jets anymore because of western sanctions on semiconductor, hightec, and everything else.



Russia makes chips since 1960s. Russia don't need to import components from the West. Since 2014 annexation of Crimea and Western sanction on Russia, Russia no longer use any Western made component.






Angstrem (company) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## merzifonlu

925boy said:


> so in reality, NATO's balkanization of RUssia (and Iran too) havent worked, you will have to try better, losers.


IMO the balkanization process works very effectively for both Iran and Russia. Especially for Russia, it will accelerate gradually. Loser.


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## 925boy

merzifonlu said:


> IMO the Balkanization process works very effectively for both Iran and Russia. Especially for Russia, it will accelerate gradually. Loser.


thats your opinion, but the facts on the ground prove the opposite, keep working at it ok? overstretched cowards- you cant kill people scott free anymore! new world order in place. NATO is the type of military coward that loathes the day it will have to boot up and actually fight, because it'll just be Afghanistan PART TWO.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

925boy said:


> abn
> 
> and gaining dependence on US gas? how is that better? thanks.
> 
> 
> good you know that.
> 
> do you mean Ukraine or Russia? balkanization means a large country gets smaller, and that happened to Ukraine , not Russia, Russia got LARGER, so in reality, NATO's balkanization of RUssia (and Iran too) havent worked, you will have to try better, losers.



Just wait and see. Putin will be killed like Hitler and Russia will be balkanized like Germany.

You do not know the power of Jews and Zelensky.

Zelensky pledges never to talk to Putin​Ukraine will not negotiate with Moscow until Putin is replaced as president, Zelensky and his cabinet said



https://www.rt.com/russia/563840-zelensky-negotiations-putin-russia/


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## zartosht

merzifonlu said:


> IMO the balkanization process works very effectively for both Iran and Russia. Especially for Russia, it will accelerate gradually. Loser.



Dont worry were not turkey.. a fascist state where they lost/genocided all non-turkish territories, and barely hanging on occupying a little kurdish territory. The second you become hostile to Iran, is the second the balkanization of turkey will be completed by Iran cutting you in half, and taking away your eastern kurdish regions. 


And thats a best case scenario. Worse case scenario you will get deported back to mongolia

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576262940566892544

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Since the start of the war Ukraine lost Kherson, Melitopol, Berdiansk, Mariupol, Severodonetsk + Lysychansk twin cities, a total of 1 million people, down to 36 million people from a pre war population of 37 million people, while Russia population increased from a pre war 147 million people to 151 million people. The numbers game gets better for Russia and gets worse for Ukraine as the war drags on.

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## SIPRA

Ukraine has recently achieved some degree of success, against Russian forces. So, it is quite possible, that Ukraine might be able to take their lands back from Russian occupation, in due time. Apparently, for quite some time, performance of Russian forces is quite dismal.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576234171445354497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576159877650866176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576201925615550465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576173057026424832

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> a loss of such a high priced jet hurts Putin badly. Russia can’t produce jets anymore because of western sanctions on semiconductor, hightec, and everything else.



Odd to deploy a Mig-31 down there given the use case of the aircraft - i can onsume it was there so that the Russians could use it to launch hypersonic missiles. An embarrasing loss to lose one in landing though.


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## 925boy

jhungary said:


> How about 2 years down the road? 5 years down the road?


Horrible for US- which was went good for US 5 years down the raod? Afghanistan, NO, iraw, NO, even SOmalia,incompetent weak Us forces had to be pulled out of there during Trump after 1 suicide bombing happened on US troops.


jhungary said:


> I have been saying all these since the beginning of the war 7 months ago, how about you really go remember what I said 3 to 6 months ago to see whether my prediction became true?


you are using a fallacy here - just because you have predicted some military actions Ukraine actions and weapons Ukraine used in the war or if Russia will get balkanized (which im sure other militarily familiar people would also know too), that DOES NOT MEAN you know how the war will end, simple.stop tricking us on this thread! ur such a fukn manipulator, always using your military knowledge to - 1) brainwash many people 2) tell lies and paint a different picture of the war - you're no authority on this forum, sit in your own seat, we each have a seat at this table/forum 3) you arent able to predict the future correctly about the conflict, your insight isnt v ery helpful, because its not very analytical, seriously, you just talk alot, and some emotiaonlly biased PDF members give u some lieks for support- end of story.


jhungary said:


> I said US is going to send HIMARS back when HIMARS wasn't even known here on PDF.


AND THEN WHAT? what does this have to do with the fact that Russia wont get broken up in 5 years? you change the argument mid way and then start attacking people like me for calling you out for your infinite lies and fallacies.


jhungary said:


> I said Ukraine is going to make Counter Offensive in the East when Russian still fighting for control in Sieverdonetsk back in May,


and then what? how is this linked to my point about NATO failing to balkanize Russia? stop changing the topic- weak stupid NATO tried to balkanize Russia via Georgia, but Russia beat up Georgia and set lazy NATO back!


jhungary said:


> I said Kherson counter offensive seems obvious for a distraction before they have been saying that for a long time back in August when Zelenskyy was talking about it before actually doing it in August. How many times I have been right since the beginning of the war?


AND SOO WHAAAT???????? none of this is related to whether NATO can balkanize Russia, and it says nothing about how the war will end for Ukraine, because the reality today is that Ukraine doesnt have the huiman financial or military resources to take back everyhtring Russia has taken - Is that statmeent true or false in your opinions? yes or no answer pls.


jhungary said:


> *PLEASE, DO FEEL FREE TO LOOK UP WHAT I SAID 3 TO 6 MONTHS AGO AND REMEMBER WHETHER OR NOT I AM RIGTH*.


you predicted some few things right, but you also lie and use fallacies, you are no future truth teller, why dont you tell us where this war will be in 7 months from now? huh??? cuz you cant!!! for someone whose spent so much time in the military, you should know how to give us more advanced analysis, instead of just thinking about which weapons US has in inventory that it will likelty send Ukraine (HIMARS)- that doesnt make you a genius, you want us to see you as agenius, but you're a bised emotional military brat, but the good news is that in military affairs, FACTS OVER EMOTIONS- Ukraine is a dead state, it will never be put together, humpty dumpty will stay better put togetether than Ukraine, and US cant change that, because US era of domination is over, and i'm not talking about how an American like you is power and ego hungry in your town and state, i mean worldwide levels.


jhungary said:


> On the other hand, have you getting any right decision?
> 
> People have to be really dumb to buy what Putin said


what exactly did we "buy"? tell us so we can confirm, but this is another bogus claim byou you with no facts toback it up, again.


jhungary said:


> *WHEN ALL THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL*.


what writing? stop talking vaguely and makek direct points, but you cant, because your bich Ukraine will never be one again, Ukraine is a former low self esteem state not worthy of independence, because it doesnt know how to keep and value it.


jhungary said:


> ure, according to him everything is A-OK since March to September as he said, "That's not a retreat, that's a planned troop movement, everything is going according to plan." How many times did he or that dude from MOD said that in the last 6 months. But then who call a general mobilisation on September 21?


Russia did!


jhungary said:


> Sure, we lost 6000 soldiers, and everything is fine, I am just calling up 300,000 reserve who I send to the front line with 5 days of training and create a border issue where more men left Russia then the people I send to this war at the end of February. Sure, everything is A-OK according to him.


yes everythign is ok, but because NATO gave Ukraine SOOO MUCH SUPPORT from NATO, Russia has to increase its militarty resources to fight the Ukraine war more effectively, what is wrong with that? US DID A SURGE IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ- why? after destroying those countries completely, and they were non nuclear states nad mostly terrorists and local militias, why did US increase its troops in Iraq and Afghanistan UNDER PATREUS? those surges are what Russia is doing now, Russia is doinga surge, why cnat you call it that too? Ukraine is a large state, with large terrritory, and lots of NATO Support, so Russia needs more forces there, but a blockhead like yourself will tell us you're brillaiinit, but also be unable to understand that point.


jhungary said:


> Man, you people are really gullible.


stop projecting, cuz that's who you are- you bought ALL THE LIES from foreign western govts that got rich abusing your people, and you think you will educate us with your propaganda? you're a joke, and i know it.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576259145765859329
Former US General in Europe

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## 925boy

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Just wait and see.


but why dont you do that instead of saying bogus things on PDF then? cuz this isnt evidence my G


Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Putin will be killed like Hitler and Russia will be balkanized like Germany.


lol, false equivalence- WW2 and today are very different global contexts.


Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> You do not know the power of Jews and Zelensky.


i know Jews in Israel struggle to keep their territory in the middle east, got pushed out of small southern Lebanon after 18 years, they cant worked down, you're just uninformed or in denial.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576264572473724928
Full salvo of GMLRS from HIMARS

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## jhungary

925boy said:


> Horrible for US- which was went good for US 5 years down the raod? Afghanistan, NO, iraw, NO, even SOmalia,incompetent weak Us forces had to be pulled out of there during Trump after 1 suicide bombing happened on US troops.



Are we talking about Ukraine or US? 



925boy said:


> you are using a fallacy here - just because you have predicted some military actions Ukraine actions and weapons Ukraine used in the war or if Russia will get balkanized (which im sure other militarily familiar people would also know too), that DOES NOT MEAN you know how the war will end, simple.stop tricking us on this thread! ur such a fukn manipulator, always using your military knowledge to - 1) brainwash many people 2) tell lies and paint a different picture of the war - you're no authority on this forum, sit in your own seat, we each have a seat at this table/forum 3) you arent able to predict the future correctly about the conflict, your insight isnt v ery helpful, because its not very analytical, seriously, you just talk alot, and some emotiaonlly biased PDF members give u some lieks for support- end of story.



Isn't it the exact point why you said, "Let's remember what I said 3 to 6 months down the road"? 

I mean no one know how this war ends, and you can try to predict every outcome and every movement, and being a infantry officer, I know something called "Military Science" and that way you can try to see how a war goes.

*I DON'T NEED TO PREDICT FUTURE TO SEE WHAT RUSSIAN IS DOING IS AGIANST THE PRINCIPAL OF BASIC MILITARY SCIENCE. *



925boy said:


> AND THEN WHAT? what does this have to do with the fact that Russia wont get broken up in 5 years? you change the argument mid way and then start attacking people like me for calling you out for your infinite lies and fallacies.



What about Russian broken up, I never said anything about Russian broken up. 

On the other hand, you accuse me of lies and fallacies, but in the end and time and time again, I prove it to be otherwise, do you want me to quote your last post saying I am a liar for saying US did not devote a lot of money up to Ukraine and show me Ukraine has received 63.9 billion of dollars aid, when I show you the exact post I quote you was about weapon and not money? 

Who's lying there?


925boy said:


> and then what? how is this linked to my point about NATO failing to balkanize Russia? stop changing the topic- weak stupid NATO tried to balkanize Russia via Georgia, but Russia beat up Georgia and set lazy NATO back!





925boy said:


> AND SOO WHAAAT???????? none of this is related to whether NATO can balkanize Russia, and it says nothing about how the war will end for Ukraine, because the reality today is that Ukraine doesnt have the huiman financial or military resources to take back everyhtring Russia has taken - Is that statmeent true or false in your opinions? yes or no answer pls




Again, since when did I say anything about Balkanize Russia? There are another guy (Forgot what's his name) saying that, I think you either confused me with that guy or you intentional misleading people and said I claim that?

Show me and quote me the post I said NATO, or anyone will Balkanize Russia?



925boy said:


> you predicted some few things right, but you also lie and use fallacies, you are no future truth teller, why dont you tell us where this war will be in 7 months from now? huh??? cuz you cant!!! for someone whose spent so much time in the military, you should know how to give us more advanced analysis, instead of just thinking about which weapons US has in inventory that it will likelty send Ukraine (HIMARS)- that doesnt make you a genius, you want us to see you as agenius, but you're a bised emotional military brat, but the good news is that in military affairs, FACTS OVER EMOTIONS- Ukraine is a dead state, it will never be put together, humpty dumpty will stay better put togetether than Ukraine, and US cant change that, because US era of domination is over, and i'm not talking about how an American like you is power and ego hungry in your town and state, i mean worldwide levels.



Dude, I predict a lot of military movement, and I listed quite a few, not just about HIMARS, I said there are no way they can take Kyiv from the get go, there are no way Russia can hold the entire Kharkiv back in May, and the Ukrainian are going to attack Kupainsk back in June when Ukraine started to receive these HIMARS?

Was I lying? You can literally look up my old post and find it, it's a public record. 

On the other hand, all your "Ukraine is done", "Ukraine is dead state" and "There are no way Ukraine can counter attack from you" is first been proven wrong, and second, that's a "Trust me Bro" comment. 

Also, what did I lie? I mean, how can a prediction be a lie? It's a prediction, it can either come true or not, You cannot lie about prediction. 



925boy said:


> what exactly did we "buy"? tell us so we can confirm, but this is another bogus claim byou you with no facts toback it up, again.
> 
> what writing? stop talking vaguely and makek direct points, but you cant, because your bich Ukraine will never be one again, Ukraine is a former low self esteem state not worthy of independence, because it doesnt know how to keep and value it.
> 
> Russia did!



Sure, Russia is doing A-OK, is that why they wanted to mobilise? all these mobilisation and protest in Russia is a lies, so did the 30% increase in food price, unable to make Mcdonald French Fries. and people exodus, those are all lies according to me, right?

LOL


925boy said:


> yes everythign is ok, but because NATO gave Ukraine SOOO MUCH SUPPORT from NATO, Russia has to increase its militarty resources to fight the Ukraine war more effectively, what is wrong with that? US DID A SURGE IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ- why? after destroying those countries completely, and they were non nuclear states nad mostly terrorists and local militias, why did US increase its troops in Iraq and Afghanistan UNDER PATREUS? those surges are what Russia is doing now, Russia is doinga surge, why cnat you call it that too? Ukraine is a large state, with large terrritory, and lots of NATO Support, so Russia needs more forces there, but a blockhead like yourself will tell us you're brillaiinit, but also be unable to understand that point.
> 
> stop projecting, cuz that's who you are- you bought ALL THE LIES from foreign western govts that got rich abusing your people, and you think you will educate us with your propaganda? you're a joke, and i know it.


Sure, even at your report, NATO and Non-NATO country only gave 63.9 billions of dollar of Aids, and let's for argument's sake those are all military aide going to Ukraine, which your own reference said it was not. That's not even a single year of Russian defence budget.

How is that "ALOT OF NATO SUPPORT" I mean, either you have a dumb way to interpret "How Many" or you aren't know shit on the topic. And you don't need to be well verse in Military Matter to know Russia is in dire state. I mean if you choose not to believe it, that only mean you are dumb, that does not mean I am lying. 

On the other hand, Ukraine JUST liberated Lyman, and forcing their troop on the way to Kreminna how about Russia live up to his promise to protect Every bit of Donetsk like it's Russian own territories? Or is that what they got? 

LOL you sounded like a wounded dog, barks but no bites. Same as Senor Putin


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## The SC




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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576260519333310464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576257616929378305

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576146731846479872


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## SIPRA

Seemingly, war is turning in favor of Ukraine.

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576260519333310464
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576257616929378305


That is why Lyman is extremely important to the Ukrainian. 

Unlike our bud @925boy here, who know nothing about MIlitary and Warfare. Lyman held the key access route North-South and East-West to the rest of Luhansk. There are only 3 Cities in this region have major access road (MSR) to all 4 directions, those are Kupiansk, Lyman and Starobilsk. Those are the center of Gravity of he entire Northern East, Ukraine, taking them will basically take the entire NE Ukraine 

This is also seen how different Ukraine and Russia persecute this war. Ukraine tries to manoeuvre around and attack the center of gravity, while Russia wastes their resource and try to take every town, regardless of significancy they encounter, they dump too many resources to try and take Sieverodonetsk, and now Bakhmut, this is going to blow back to them in a simple military point of view.

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576259145765859329
> Former US General in Europe


If HiMARS or any MRLS were the solution then Russia would have the whole of Ukraine by now. People seeming to be mixing fact and fiction, yes NATO supported Ukraine is counter attacking , in any war a counter attack would be expected and no army worth its salt wouldn't counter attack. . How Russia deals with the the Ukrainian counter attack and how Russia absorbs it are the keys. In WW2 Russia lost 60 Million people but still won the war. Russia has defined it's position and has declared an area to fight for which is a good step towards ending the war. Best for Ukraine to negotiate a settlement before it gets uglier.


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## Ali_Baba

khansaheeb said:


> If HiMARS or any MRLS were the solution then Russia would have the whole of Ukraine by now. People seeming to be mixing fact and fiction, yes NATO supported Ukraine is counter attacking , in any war a counter attack would be expected and no army worth its salt wouldn't counter attack. . How Russia deals with the the Ukrainian counter attack and how Russia absorbs it are the keys. In WW2 Russia lost 60 Million people but still won the war. Russia has defined it's position and has declared an area to fight for which is a good step towards ending the war. Best for Ukraine to negotiate a settlement before it gets uglier.



Russia of WW2 is not the Russia of today ....

You must remember, those losses in WW2 were incurred when the Germans invaded Russia. Now, it is the Russians who are the aggressors and those mobilised for this from Russia war are not fighting to protect and evict invades from their homeland, - but to satisfy Putins ego in a foreign land ....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576282349741821952


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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> If HiMARS or any MRLS were the solution then Russia would have the whole of Ukraine by now. People seeming to be mixing fact and fiction, yes NATO supported Ukraine is counter attacking , in any war a counter attack would be expected and no army worth its salt wouldn't counter attack. . How Russia deals with the the Ukrainian counter attack and how Russia absorbs it are the keys. In WW2 Russia lost 60 Million people but still won the war. Russia has defined it's position and has declared an area to fight for which is a good step towards ending the war. Best for Ukraine to negotiate a settlement before it gets uglier.


The problem is would the Ukrainian settle?

Look at it at a Military Point of view. It didn't take much to know Ukraine is on the High, Russia is on the low at least for now. Now I can't see into the future, maybe the 300,000 untrained conscript Putin is going to send may make a different? Most likely not. Which mean at this point Ukraine don't have an incentive to make Russia settle. Russia may want to settle this because they are in the "Negative Military Position" or "Negative Outcome" (Watch Siege of Jadotville if you want to know what that mean) Which mean it serve nothing for Ukrainian to settle at this point. But it will give Russia a breather to settle at this point, which mean Ukraine not likely to ask for one.

Look at it at a Political Point of view. What can Ukraine get from a settlement? Whatever Russia said they will do they had done it, with the exception of using Nuke, which as explained before, if they want to use nuke, they don't need to wait til those oblast to be annexed first. So basically, all the move are already expanded, which mean in a political bargaining chip sense, the only thing Russia can offer is that they stop doing that. But then would Ukrainian trust that, solely on Russian word? It didn't take a genius to know they won't, which mean if a settlement is going to make, there have to be some kind of Security Guarantee that can be binding and offered to Ukraine. There are literally only one way, that's for Ukraine to join NATO, because EU does not compel member state to fight if one were attack, only NATO does that, every other C2C defence pact is non-binding. Which beg the question, would Russia be okay to have Ukraine in NATO? I don't really think so. 

So as far as I see, both side don't want a negotiation, and as far as I see, this war will most likely decided on a battlefield.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

SIPRA said:


> Seemingly, war is turning in favor of Ukraine.



Yes. Putin's days are numbered.

Putin will be killed like Saddam and Russia will be balkanized like yugoslavia.

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## kingQamaR

Lyman now encircled by the Ukrainians, Russian garrison of 5,000 troops doomed. Unbelievable!


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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> The problem is would the Ukrainian settle?
> 
> Look at it at a Military Point of view. It didn't take much to know Ukraine is on the High, Russia is on the low at least for now. Now I can't see into the future, maybe the 300,000 untrained conscript Putin is going to send may make a different? Most likely not. Which mean at this point Ukraine don't have an incentive to make Russia settle. Russia may want to settle this because they are in the "Negative Military Position" or "Negative Outcome" (Watch Siege of Jadotville if you want to know what that mean) Which mean it serve nothing for Ukrainian to settle at this point. But it will give Russia a breather to settle at this point, which mean Ukraine not likely to ask for one.
> 
> Look at it at a Political Point of view. What can Ukraine get from a settlement? Whatever Russia said they will do they had done it, with the exception of using Nuke, which as explained before, if they want to use nuke, they don't need to wait til those oblast to be annexed first. So basically, all the move are already expanded, which mean in a political bargaining chip sense, the only thing Russia can offer is that they stop doing that. But then would Ukrainian trust that, solely on Russian word? It didn't take a genius to know they won't, which mean if a settlement is going to make, there have to be some kind of Security Guarantee that can be binding and offered to Ukraine. There are literally only one way, that's for Ukraine to join NATO, because EU does not compel member state to fight if one were attack, only NATO does that, every other C2C defence pact is non-binding. Which beg the question, would Russia be okay to have Ukraine in NATO? I don't really think so.
> 
> So as far as I see, both side don't want a negotiation, and as far as I see, this war will most likely decided on a battlefield.


Well since Ukraine has nothing to lose then why don't they join NATO? Best time is now as Russian army is so weak, which will allow NATO to send planes and soldiers in?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576280970587648000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576282265683824642

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576282812923006976

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Lyman felt, then next is Svatove, that's the key town which run MSR North-South, after Lyman, you are looking at 8 Brigades (32,000 men) facing off a degraded Russian division around 15,000, depends on how many Russian escaped Lyman, sources said up to 5,000 are trapped in Lyman, while I will say this is a bit optimistic, I will say if this is true, you are looking at 30,000 Ukrainian against 10,000 scatted Russian along Svatove - Kreminna Line. That will be going to be another rout.
> 
> And after Svatove, Ukrianian target will no doubt be Starobilsk, which is what they really want, took Starobilsk and you take the rest of Northern Luchansk and threaten Luchansk City.
> 
> 
> How about 2 years down the road? 5 years down the road? I have been saying all these since the beginning of the war 7 months ago, how about you really go remember what I said 3 to 6 months ago to see whether my prediction became true? I said US is going to send HIMARS back when HIMARS wasn't even known here on PDF. I said Ukraine is going to make Counter Offensive in the East when Russian still fighting for control in Sieverdonetsk back in May, I said Kherson counter offensive seems obvious for a distraction before they have been saying that for a long time back in August when Zelenskyy was talking about it before actually doing it in August. How many times I have been right since the beginning of the war?
> 
> *PLEASE, DO FEEL FREE TO LOOK UP WHAT I SAID 3 TO 6 MONTHS AGO AND REMEMBER WHETHER OR NOT I AM RIGTH*. On the other hand, have you getting any right decision?
> 
> People have to be really dumb to buy what Putin said *WHEN ALL THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL*. Sure, according to him everything is A-OK since March to September as he said, "That's not a retreat, that's a planned troop movement, everything is going according to plan." How many times did he or that dude from MOD said that in the last 6 months. But then who call a general mobilisation on September 21? Sure, we lost 6000 soldiers, and everything is fine, I am just calling up 300,000 reserve who I send to the front line with 5 days of training and create a border issue where more men left Russia then the people I send to this war at the end of February. Sure, everything is A-OK according to him.
> 
> Man, you people are really gullible.


What’s with Kherson? Ukraine should repeat the Lyman moment, not let Russians escape the encirclement. 20,000 Russians will try to break out and link up the eastern river bank.


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## khansaheeb

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Yes. Putin's days are numbered.
> 
> Putin will be killed like Saddam and Russia will be balkanized like yugoslavia.


Not when Russians have 5000 Nukes.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576279070081716225


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576285252992921601

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## MeFishToo

khansaheeb said:


> If HiMARS or any MRLS were the solution then Russia would have the whole of Ukraine by now. People seeming to be mixing fact and fiction, yes NATO supported Ukraine is counter attacking , in any war a counter attack would be expected and no army worth its salt wouldn't counter attack. . How Russia deals with the the Ukrainian counter attack and how Russia absorbs it are the keys. In WW2 Russia lost 60 Million people but still won the war. Russia has defined it's position and has declared an area to fight for which is a good step towards ending the war. Best for Ukraine to negotiate a settlement before it gets uglier.


Russia lost 6-7 million military personel and about the same number of civilians during WW2. The rest of the estimated loss of 27 million was from the rest of the former sovjet republics. 
Its pointless comparing the Sovjet Union from 1940-1945 with Russia of today, eventhough Russia is still waging war as if it still is 1945.


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## The SC

The Russian occupied territories by Ukraine (yellow parts) HaHaHa!

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## aziqbal

until HIMAR problem is not solved this war is not in favour of Russia 

HIMAR is devastating the Russia ammo dumps why throw more men into this war unless you have solved the biggest problem ?

also Russia has no dedicated aircraft for SEAD/DEAD missions and as a result are forced to fly low or ultra low and MANPADS has wiped out their aircrafts even new ones like Su34

Russia needs to find solutions to these issues otherwise this war is going to cost them terribly even newer aircraft like Su34 carry no pods or even try to suppress the enemy air defences

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MeFishToo said:


> Russia lost 6-7 million military personel and about the same number of civilians during WW2. The rest of the estimated loss of 27 million was from the rest of the former sovjet republics.
> Its pointless comparing the Sovjet Union from 1940-1945 with Russia of today, eventhough Russia is still waging war as if it still is 1945.



Most of the Russians who fought in WW2 are Ukranians and Georgians.

Russians are not patriotic like the Ukranians and they are unwilling to fight.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576289882774781952

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

khansaheeb said:


> Not when Russians have 5000 Nukes.



USSR too had nukes but collapsed without using any.

Nukes are only for show. They can never be used.

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> True, but it's not a big city. It had a pre war population of about 20,000. It can be easily recaptured.


Yes just like Kiev will be captured in 2056 and Kabul in 2098



alimobin memon said:


> Ok so whats next ? Didnt russian forces at lyman said they had to defend until putins speech ?


I think they musunderstood the declaration: they thought the celeberation in Moscow was to remind everybody to reduce the territory.


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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia makes chips since 1960s. Russia don't need to import components from the West. Since 2014 annexation of Crimea and Western sanction on Russia, Russia no longer use any Western made component.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angstrem (company) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


For once I will agree with you. They are putting the same 1960s tech in their weapons (offensive and defensive) in the 70s/80s/90s and now and Russian doctrine and weapons get beaten everytime:
1. All Arab/Israeli wars
2. NATO vs. Serbia
3. Israel every day over Syria
4. And an Air Force with 600 combat jets could not overcome Ukraine's primitive 60 jet inventory.
And their 'latest' SU-35 looks like an 80s era airplane with some cosmetic airplane: its like you get older, all the breast implants, butt tucks, and botox still not going to make you younger. Thats whats going on with its current set of components.

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## khansaheeb

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> USSR too had nukes but collapsed without using any.
> 
> Nukes are only for show. They can never be used.


Hiroshima was 77 years ago, have you forgotten already?


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## aviator_fan

SIPRA said:


> Ukraine has recently achieved some degree of success, against Russian forces. So, it is quite possible, that Ukraine might be able to take their lands back from Russian occupation, in due time. Apparently, for quite some time, performance of Russian forces is quite dismal.





khansaheeb said:


> If HiMARS or any MRLS were the solution then Russia would have the whole of Ukraine by now. People seeming to be mixing fact and fiction, yes NATO supported Ukraine is counter attacking , in any war a counter attack would be expected and no army worth its salt wouldn't counter attack. . How Russia deals with the the Ukrainian counter attack and how Russia absorbs it are the keys. In WW2 Russia lost 60 Million people but still won the war. Russia has defined it's position and has declared an area to fight for which is a good step towards ending the war. Best for Ukraine to negotiate a settlement before it gets uglier.


At the time Russia was fighting an adversary that was engaged in two fronts. No such division occurs.

Also, people could become cannon fodder then because unfortunately they did not have information. No more than some one does not die from a bacterial infection because of anti-biotics , Russia propoganda has reached its limit: it does not have a population it can send indefinitely.

Once you lose momentum, you are on the run. This is what happened to Germany against Russia when they had to pull back. Unfortunately for Russian empire, its in the same position now here where they are pulling back.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Well since Ukraine has nothing to lose then why don't they join NATO? Best time is now as Russian army is so weak, which will allow NATO to send planes and soldiers in?


They just signed a fast tracked NATO membership I think yesterday morning.....









Ukraine applies for Nato membership after Russia annexes territory


Volodymyr Zelenskiy dismisses Moscow ceremony as a farce and rules out negotiations with Putin




www.theguardian.com





Well, they can only applies, whether or not they can join depends on all 30 NATO members.

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## aviator_fan

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Just wait and see. Putin will be killed like Hitler and Russia will be balkanized like Germany.
> 
> You do not know the power of Jews and Zelensky.
> 
> Zelensky pledges never to talk to Putin​Ukraine will not negotiate with Moscow until Putin is replaced as president, Zelensky and his cabinet said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rt.com


Wow, former KGB , supreme ruler of the Russian empire and you guys are making Zelenskly look like some divine creature? May be if you knew the power of 'jews' 5 months ago and so did Russia, then he should have not invaded. Or is this new found obsession on power of the 'jews' just yesterday when you feel sorry that Russia is the victim

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> What’s with Kherson? Ukraine should repeat the Lyman moment, not let Russians escape the encirclement. 20,000 Russians will try to break out and link up the eastern river bank.


kherson is harder than you think, as you cannot outflank Kherson (it lies just above a river) And I have a feeling Ukraine don't want to destroy Kherson much like Russian did with Mariupol, Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk and pretty much every town they invaded. They are already in Artillery range, they can just reduce Kherson to rubble and waltz in with Western and Northern Flank.

It's also notice that Kherson is not the only intended target in the area, Ukrainian also wanted Nova Karkova. Which mean they will need to take Nova Karkova first (which is what they are trying to do) before they can encircle Kherson. On the other hand, the Russian are going nowhere because all the bridge is blown.

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## PakFactor

aziqbal said:


> until HIMAR problem is not solved this war is not in favour of Russia
> 
> HIMAR is devastating the Russia ammo dumps why throw more men into this war unless you have solved the biggest problem ?
> 
> also Russia has no dedicated aircraft for SEAD/DEAD missions and as a result are forced to fly low or ultra low and MANPADS has wiped out their aircrafts even new ones like Su34
> 
> Russia needs to find solutions to these issues otherwise this war is going to cost them terribly even newer aircraft like Su34 carry no pods or even try to suppress the enemy air defences



Let's not make HIMARS some magical weapon, and the main issue lies with the Russian war machine from tactics, implementation, and logistics (outside of corruption). The Russians are fighting as if it's still World War 1 & 2. They've not advanced in warfighting as one would have hoped. Another issue lies with no NCO and having a conscription-based army; this surprised me the most.

Lastly, Ukraine getting an endless supply of weaponry is another issue Russia didn’t tackle early on.

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## jhungary

Watching Open Source intel late night, it seems like the Ukrainian is pushing Lyman thru Western side, so I am guessing it was the 25th Airborne Brigade that liberated Lyman (Go Airborne) .

Which mean Russia would have moved the bulk of their troop back because the escape route is East thru Torske, I think even with Ukrainian taking Yampil and having eyes on the road to Torske, and probably will bring Arty on retreating Russian, there would be a lot of Russian escaped thru that route or just melted across the river.

On the other hand, I saw a funny post on a Pro-Russian Telegram account, who claims at the last moment Russia still held Lyman and the famous video (with the troop raise the flag on the Lyman administration sign, it was here a few pages before you can check it out if you want) is fake and proceed to try to geolocate the sign and say it wasn't in Lyman, the only problem is, he somehow Geolocated the city "Lyman" to Lyman, Maine, USA and give out the US Map and say Ukrainian were not in Lyman...

Gosh, if Telegram is not blocked here, I would share that post in a jiffy. That's just so freaking funny.









Lyman, Maine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## kingQamaR

PakFactor said:


> Let's not make HIMARS some magical weapons, and the main issue lies with the Russian war machine from tactics, implementation, and logistics (outside of corruption). The Russians are fighting as if it's still World War 1 & 2. They've not advanced in warfighting as one would have hoped. Another issue lies with no NCO and having a conscription-based army; this surprised me the most.
> 
> Lastly, Ukraine getting an endless supply of weaponry is another issue Russia didn’t tackle early on.



Putin sent his best military to invade Ukraine and they got smashed, now he plans to send in untrained Russian conscripts with zero will to fight and they will be nothing more than cannon fodder to keep his insane dream alive for a bit longer

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576304685325389824

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> Putin sent his best military to invade Ukraine and they got smashed, now he plans to send in untrained Russian conscripts with zero will to fight and they will be nothing more than cannon fodder to keep his insane dream alive for a bit longer



Indeed, that’s the best part of this war. What wouldn’t Russia do down the road to clean up its image? But then, hopefully, we still see Europe on its toes with Russia. 

But the question is, will Pakistanis learn from this and improve? This is the central question.

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## RoadAmerica

TNT said:


> Facts? Lolz the world is not black and white, its not a fairytale and the US is a devious evil state, with a history of doing such things, WMDs in iraq yeah?
> Yup the US hasn't threatened to use nukes but is the only country that have and is cornering Russia and pushing it to use nukes. Dummies dont realize what they r playing with, lives of millions of ppl.
> 
> 
> I agree with that, putin is no better. A dictator and killer of muslims and im glad the whites r killing each other. But the point is, they r pushing the whole world into chaos. The US being super power should strive for ceasefire and peace and not be a cheerleader.


I think you’re blinded by racism and hate. 
I’ll just stop there as there’s no point going any further


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576312374369583105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576312610827685888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576312675466104832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576270588406280193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576270008421752833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576270014427996161


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

khansaheeb said:


> Hiroshima was 77 years ago, have you forgotten already?



Only US is capable of repeating that feat.



aviator_fan said:


> Wow, former KGB , supreme ruler of the Russian empire and you guys are making Zelenskly look like some divine creature? May be if you knew the power of 'jews' 5 months ago and so did Russia, then he should have not invaded. Or is this new found obsession on power of the 'jews' just yesterday when you feel sorry that Russia is the victim



Russia never imagined that US & NATO will get involved in the war.

Putin under estimated the power of Zelensky and Jewish lobby on the US government.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakFactor said:


> Let's not make HIMARS some magical weapons, and the main issue lies with the Russian war machine from tactics, implementation, and logistics (outside of corruption). The Russians are fighting as if it's still World War 1 & 2. They've not advanced in warfighting as one would have hoped. Another issue lies with no NCO and having a conscription-based army; this surprised me the most.
> 
> Lastly, Ukraine getting an endless supply of weaponry is another issue Russia didn’t tackle early on.



HIMARS is good, but it's not as powerful as Smerch / Tornado-S. HIMARS is 227 mm. Smerch / Tornado-S is 300 mm. Comparing HIMARS to Smerch / Tornado-S is like comparing M16 to M14.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russia never imagined that US & NATO will get involved in the war.
> 
> Putin under estimated the power of Zelensky and Jewish lobby on the US government.



While it is true the US and the UK have a capable army, but the fact is their civilians are too cowardly to fight Russians. If this were their grandpas time they'd be fighting in the battlefields of Europe like in WW1, WW2. The fact that they are democracies means whoever goes to war will lose election. And their politicians care more about holding on to their jobs than caring about their Ukraine vassal.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576316739591151617


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576164255014866950

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576138424914182146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576135916712001537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576274348322656256

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576315537830793216


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576274348322656256



Easy target for

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## merzifonlu

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Putin under estimated the power of Zelensky and Jewish lobby on the US government.


Oh, Almighty God! When will you stop looking for a Jewish finger under everything, just like the Nazis?

For example, for Turkiye, there is a historical reckoning with the Russians over Crimea. The same applies to* every country* that is a NATO member or has a land border with the Russians.

When Russian incompetence and sheer corruption became evident early in the war, they joined the war with great ambition. The matter is that simple.

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## Paul2

merzifonlu said:


> IMO the balkanization process works very effectively for both Iran and Russia. Especially for Russia, it will accelerate gradually. Loser.



Totally, I feel Russia will make Yugaslavia look mild, and nice, and Iran...

You see already, it's Iranian Baluchistan, Iranian Kurudistan and Iranian Azerbaijan being first to start organised armed fighting.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576321957846319104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576319021267709952

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Paul2

Viet said:


> What’s with Kherson? Ukraine should repeat the Lyman moment, not let Russians escape the encirclement. 20,000 Russians will try to break out and link up the eastern river bank.



Khesanh is already devouring enormous resources to sustain. Pushing it now will disrupt RU momentum to reinforce Luhansk direction by forcing RU reserve from the south to do a u-turn while going at full speed


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576315030911361024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576327248289726465

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Noone recognizes the annexation of Golan.
> Everyone knows that Syria is the original aggressor.


strangely but Uncle Sam recognize it








United States recognition of the Golan Heights as part of Israel - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




again the mighty trump single handedly blown away your argument


aviator_fan said:


> That border agreement was in 1945. The matter did not end there. In 1948, Soviet Union blockaded the city and effectively wanted to starve it to submission. There is your dispute


guys a little history .
the blockade started in 1948, it ended in 1949,
Germany joined NATO in 1955. there was no border dispute no blockade in 1955


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Feel free to show a list of obligations which the EU did not meet.


let just say they failed their obligation in helping Iran redesigning Arak Nuclear power-plant , or they failed to honor the deal we had on providing us with Airbus and ATR airplanes . or after USA left deal and reinstate sanction they promised they use Instex , to bypass the USA sanction , they failed to do that

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576333415900540929
Russian losses now exceed 6,600

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576339285258948608


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576259226279632896

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576339285258948608



They diverted their regulars to the south, and only left specops, irregulars, leftovers of 1st GTA, and other oddball units (200th arctic warfare brigade) there.

You can guess, none of them were even remotely trained in defence.

All because they wanted Khesanh so much.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576331334317879297


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> They diverted their regulars to the south, and only left specops, irregulars, leftovers of 1st GTA, and other oddball units (200th arctic warfare brigade) there.
> 
> You can guess, none of them were even remotely trained in defence.
> 
> All because they wanted Khesanh so much.



Im seeing reports that Ukraine is massing a large amount of troops and armor just to the northeast of Kherson.


----------



## FuturePAF

oberschlesier said:


> Well, Ukraine is slowly gaining the initiative, which is good and anticipate ed.


They have the full collective D.I.M.E. weight of the western alliance behind them. Coalition warfare is the key to western success. If the west can get through this winter and wean themselves off Russian exports (oil, gas, wheat, fertilizer, etc.) then they can bargain with Russia from a position of strength. For the former Soviet republics and eastern bloc nations it will mean putting the specter of the Russian threat to rest once and for all.

The implications of this happens though is that the western alliance could then be free to support other initiatives around the world. For China, supporting Russia maybe necessary, once the Ukraine war ends, to keep the Europeans preoccupied with Russia so they don’t expend as many resources in Asia.



F-22Raptor said:


> Im seeing reports that Ukraine is massing a large amount of troops and armor just to the northeast of Kherson.


Perhaps, but it could be another feint as they prepare to move somewhere else along the frontline.


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Im seeing reports that Ukraine is massing a large amount of troops and armor just to the northeast of Kherson.



The Ukrainian have deployed 2 additional brigade (one of them a Mechanised and the other one was defending Odessa couple of month ago) they move them forward. It doesn't look like they are going to push, because it's just 2 Brigades, more likely they are doing troop replacement and regeneration on the frontline, I am almost certain they are going to pull the 2 Marine Brigade back to Odessa (Or someplace rear) for R&R and would only keep the pressure on in Kherson Area. I could be wrong, but that's the most likely reason, otherwise that would be a troop surge, it either mean they are making another push, or Russia is about to counterattack, I don't think chances of either of those happening is high.

On the other hand, the main event is on the East, now with Lyman taken, the Ukrainian has plan for the East, they just pushed another 3 Brigade SE of Lyman line (54 Mech now directly opposite Lysychansk, 10 Moutain next to 54 to their SE and 93 Mech North of Bakhmut.) Along with 114 and 118 TDF Brigade. The Ukrainian now have 5 Brigade in the entire Area of Lysychansk to Bakhmut line. That's way too much troop there for a defensive line, with Lyman push, I am pretty sure they are going to hit the entire Savtove - Kreminna - Sieverodonetsk line in a general push. All the tale-tell sign are there.

One Last Hoorah before winter. Or they may be doing what they did back in Early September in reverse, try to lure as many Southern Troop to the East now the momentum swing seriously to Ukraine in the East. That could also be the reason. Either that or a general push deeper into Luhansk.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

8 inch guns


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576370639187103746
drone attack


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576347865248845824


----------



## PakAlp

aziqbal said:


> until HIMAR problem is not solved this war is not in favour of Russia
> 
> HIMAR is devastating the Russia ammo dumps why throw more men into this war unless you have solved the biggest problem ?
> 
> also Russia has no dedicated aircraft for SEAD/DEAD missions and as a result are forced to fly low or ultra low and MANPADS has wiped out their aircrafts even new ones like Su34
> 
> Russia needs to find solutions to these issues otherwise this war is going to cost them terribly even newer aircraft like Su34 carry no pods or even try to suppress the enemy air defences



Its clearly visible Russia is failing to deal with the problems your pointing out but if Russia was planning an invasion then they should have considered this. 

It shows the incompetence of their military leadership as pointed out by @jhungary They could have imported and prepared for the war. I am guessing they made grave errors in judging the response from Nato and Ukraine.


----------



## aviator_fan

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Only US is capable of repeating that feat.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia never imagined that US & NATO will get involved in the war.
> 
> Putin under estimated the power of Zelensky and Jewish lobby on the US government.


Yes agreed he did not count on them earlier. But by 2021 Dec the way Biden was talking and warning, any deaf/dumb leader would have known what US intentions were. This is called 'reading the leaves'. Counting your entire campaign on a hunch that US is just talking and won't act.

You are going to have get your facts straight and come out of your 'jewish' lobby inferiority complex mindset as if they are some super humans. 

Ukraine's jewish population is 0.5% . The comedian president may be jewish but the country is not. As you know its not a monarchy so there is no jewish lobby activation for 0.5% of the country which can be easily relocated.

There was a bigger desire that Russia needed to checkmated here if they proceeded. Unfortunately, Putin went on a hunch and fell for it.



Hack-Hook said:


> strangely but Uncle Sam recognize it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United States recognition of the Golan Heights as part of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> again the mighty trump single handedly blown away your argument
> 
> guys a little history .
> the blockade started in 1948, it ended in 1949,
> Germany joined NATO in 1955. there was no border dispute no blockade in 1955
> 
> let just say they failed their obligation in helping Iran redesigning Arak Nuclear power-plant , or they failed to honor the deal we had on providing us with Airbus and ATR airplanes . or after USA left deal and reinstate sanction they promised they use Instex , to bypass the USA sanction , they failed to do that


The blockade ended yes, but it set the tone of the what the USSR mindset was going to be from that point on.


----------



## jhungary

PakAlp said:


> Its clearly visible Russia is failing to deal with the problems your pointing out but if Russia was planning an invasion then they should have considered this.
> 
> It shows the incompetence of their military leadership as pointed out by @jhungary They could have imported and prepared for the war. I am guessing they made grave errors in judging the response from Nato and Ukraine.


Well, to be honest, I think they did prepared for it, but probably preparing for the wrong thing. Now, I don't know what the Russian did or did not do. But seems to me they are pretty much on a mindset of an occupier, than an invader. 

Military Economy is actually very basic when it come down to, it's basically to a term you get twice the stuff that you need and have a way to bring them to battle. Russia failed at both task. They don't have twice the equipment they need for backup in case things didn't go their way, and they don't have means to bring them to battle. 

A lot of these equipment issue and manpower issue can be can should be solved BEFORE they enter Ukraine, not after, and when you have to go and beg or buy for ammo in the middle of the war, that's actually unheard of. I mean even at the last stage of WW2 when Germany got rip up pretty good, they don't ask Spain's Franco or Sweden for munition.....

Now, as I said, I don't know, they have time and shown they had prepare for it, but what exactly did they preparing for? I really don't know, maybe they prepare for a celebration in Freedom Square in Kyiv?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

drone attack


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576347212375740418


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

aviator_fan said:


> Yes agreed he did not count on them earlier. But by 2021 Dec the way Biden was talking and warning, any deaf/dumb leader would have known what US intentions were. This is called 'reading the leaves'. Counting your entire campaign on a hunch that US is just talking and won't act.
> 
> You are going to have get your facts straight and come out of your 'jewish' lobby inferiority complex mindset as if they are some super humans.
> 
> Ukraine's jewish population is 0.5% . The comedian president may be jewish but the country is not. As you know its not a monarchy so there is no jewish lobby activation for 0.5% of the country which can be easily relocated.
> 
> There was a bigger desire that Russia needed to checkmated here if they proceeded. Unfortunately, Putin went on a hunch and fell for it.



Biden implied that US would be okay if Russia only attacked east/south Ukraine.

That was a masterstroke by the US to pull Russia into a full scale war with NATO and Putin the idiot he is fell for that ploy.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Biden implied that US would be okay if Russia only attacked east/south Ukraine.
> 
> That was a masterstroke by the US to pull Russia into a full scale war with NATO and Putin the idiot he is fell for that ploy.



The US has twice the population of Russia. In a one on one war, the US can use its population advantage to crush Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576335132683665408


----------



## PakAlp

jhungary said:


> Well, to be honest, I think they did prepared for it, but probably preparing for the wrong thing. Now, I don't know what the Russian did or did not do. But seems to me they are pretty much on a mindset of an occupier, than an invader.
> 
> Military Economy is actually very basic when it come down to, it's basically to a term you get twice the stuff that you need and have a way to bring them to battle. Russia failed at both task. They don't have twice the equipment they need for backup in case things didn't go their way, and they don't have means to bring them to battle.
> 
> A lot of these equipment issue and manpower issue can be can should be solved BEFORE they enter Ukraine, not after, and when you have to go and beg or buy for ammo in the middle of the war, that's actually unheard of. I mean even at the last stage of WW2 when Germany got rip up pretty good, they don't ask Spain's Franco or Sweden for munition.....
> 
> Now, as I said, I don't know, they have time and shown they had prepare for it, but what exactly did they preparing for? I really don't know, maybe they prepare for a celebration in Freedom Square in Kyiv?



Their airforce clearly failed to destroy targets such as Ukrainian airforce, tanks, HIMAARS, artillery, SAM systems, Radars etc. The only conclusion is Russia is not as powerful as we thought they were, no wonder Nato is openly supporting Ukraine. If this was Usa they would destroy all air targets and major ground targets before invasion, yes to occupy a country who hates you or fight gorilla warfare is difficult as seen in Afghanistan.

Ukraine on the other hand would have lost the war but Nato supplies, intelligence, training and Ukrainan people are winning this war for Ukraine, by loosing war i mean Russia would have took all major Russian speaking areas, the Ukrainian speaking areas would be difficult to occupy.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Han Patriot

MeFishToo said:


> Just curious. If the rest of the world gives in to russian nuclear blackmail now, what prevents Russia from doing it again?
> Why isnt Russia scared shitless provoking NATO with all the combined nuclear weapons in its stockpile?


The rest of the world? What do you think China would do if Taiwan declares independence and is about to lose? We would have done the same. The key is balance of power. US and the West is bullying all other countries and disrespecting boundaries. Its not gonna be nice when everything is controlled by the US corporatoracy



Viet said:


> Ah you think China would survive if coming to a nuclear exchange between NATO and Russia?


That's my point, Nobody will, so stop poking the bear damn it.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The US has twice the population of Russia. In a one on one war, the US can use its population advantage to crush Russia.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576335132683665408



You cannot include all US population.

Republican White kids are no longer interested in joining US military.

Democrat white kids are rich and not interested in joining US military anyway.

That leaves blacks, latinos and immigrants who want a green card to join the US military to be the guinea pigs.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> You cannot include all US population.
> 
> Republican White kids are no longer interested in joining US military.
> 
> Democrat white kids are rich and not interested in joining US military anyway.
> 
> That leaves blacks, latinos and immigrants who want a green card to join the US military to be the guinea pigs.



American young generation is too spoiled to fight. They are lazy bums. They would never fight in Ukraine where there is no hot shower available.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> American young generation is too spoiled to fight. They are lazy bums. They would never fight in Ukraine where there is no hot shower available.



They are good at fighting with drones sitting in a safe A/C bunker.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

From now on they should only use 8 inch guns. And get those 8 inch laser guided rounds pronto. 6 inch guns are not useful in modern war anymore.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576370639187103746


----------



## Shawnee



Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> From now on they should only use 8 inch guns. And get those 8 inch laser guided rounds pronto. 6 inch guns are not useful in modern war anymore.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576370639187103746



Fighting with guns is getting boring.

I am enjoying the blowing up of the Pipelines.

I am waiting for TurkStream pipeline to be destroyed next.

Hope we will hear the good news in the next few days.


----------



## Brainsucker

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 884058


Well, If we accumulated the total experience on how to use Drone in combat that Ukraine accumulated during this war, and compared them to Israel, Ukraine win a lot.
So why they still moaning to Israel. With the military technology that Ukraine possessed, they should have already have enough know how to improve their drone. As they have already have using the weapon in an actual combat against a big adversary like Russia.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Polish made Krab howitzer explodes and destroys itself, indicating poor steel quality.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576303454917922817
Kalashnikov shows modernized AK-74.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576425317744275456


----------



## Hack-Hook

aviator_fan said:


> The blockade ended yes, but it set the tone of the what the USSR mindset was going to be from that point on.


we are not talking about strategic mindset of cold war , we are dealing with one question.
Did West Germany had any border dispute with any country at 1955 when it joined NATO ? I'm not aware of any.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> we are not talking about strategic mindset of cold war , we are dealing with one question.
> Did West Germany had any border dispute with any country at 1955 when it joined NATO ? I'm not aware of any.


Again, you don't need border dispute to go into war. I don't know why you are so dead set on Border Dispute.

I mean, did Austro-Hungary have any border dispute with the Serb before starting WW1? 

WW2 is a bit complicated


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Military Economy is actually very basic when it come down to, it's basically to a term you get twice the stuff that you need and have a way to bring them to battle. Russia failed at both task. They don't have twice the equipment they need for backup in case things didn't go their way, and they don't have means to bring them to battle.


they didn't even prepared 1/3rd of the force and logistic they needed 


jhungary said:


> Now, as I said, I don't know, they have time and shown they had prepare for it, but what exactly did they preparing for? I really don't know, maybe they prepare for a celebration in Freedom Square in Kyiv?


more than prepare the ammo and logistic you must have clear plan and goal if you star , not like Russia that change the objectives several time .


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> they didn't even prepared 1/3rd of the force and logistic they needed
> 
> more than prepare the ammo and logistic you must have clear plan and goal if you star , not like Russia that change the objectives several time .


You do know BOTH ARE COUNTED toward being unprepared. 

I mean if you go into a war, shouldn't you be having a solid goal as in what you want to do before you went in? You don't change the objective mid-way thru a war. And you can't say "Oh I don't know how much supply we will need in a war" well, that's your job to know....


----------



## Hack-Hook

Han Patriot said:


> The rest of the world? What do you think China would do if Taiwan declares independence and is about to lose? We would have done the same. The key is balance of power. US and the West is bullying all other countries and disrespecting boundaries. Its not gonna be nice when everything is controlled by the US corporatoracy
> 
> 
> That's my point, Nobody will, so stop poking the bear damn it.


Russia had 8 years to empower people of Luhansk and Donbass so they can do the fight , if they armed and trained those people and let they finish the job there never would have been such reaction from the NATO.


----------



## jhungary

PakAlp said:


> Their airforce clearly failed to destroy targets such as Ukrainian airforce, tanks, HIMAARS, artillery, SAM systems, Radars etc. The only conclusion is Russia is not as powerful as we thought they were, no wonder Nato is openly supporting Ukraine. If this was Usa they would destroy all air targets and major ground targets before invasion, yes to occupy a country who hates you or fight gorilla warfare is difficult as seen in Afghanistan.
> 
> Ukraine on the other hand would have lost the war but Nato supplies, intelligence, training and Ukrainan people are winning this war for Ukraine, by loosing war i mean Russia would have took all major Russian speaking areas, the Ukrainian speaking areas would be difficult to occupy.


Well, I don't know, that's a $64,000 question, by all account, corrupted or not, they should have enough firepower to neuter Ukrainian Air Defence, and if they cannot do that, the Russia can't fly CAP and take out those HIMARS, Radar or whatever. 

On the other hand, it's not hard at all to see at the beginning of this war, even with Air Superiority, they (The Russian) will not be able to conquer all the land like they wish, simply because Ukraine is fracking huge, you can't swallow the entire Ukraine or even the entire pre-dominantly Russian Speaking part even without HIMARS and anything else. And the Ukrainian speaking side of Ukraine is virtually a no go for Russia from the get go. That is regardless if Russia able to gain Air Superiority. 

Again, go back to a few page before, I have posted a video on Malcome Nance talks about the war before the war happened. You will get some insight as to how hard it is to do operation in Ukraine.






Now bear in mind this video is posted on the February 19, 2022. 5 days before the war.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Again, you don't need border dispute to go into war. I don't know why you are so dead set on Border Dispute.
> 
> I mean, did Austro-Hungary have any border dispute with the Serb before starting WW1?
> 
> WW2 is a bit complicated


was east and west Germany at brink of war in 1955 ? or any time after the blockade ended ?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> From now on they should only use 8 inch guns. And get those 8 inch laser guided rounds pronto. 6 inch guns are not useful in modern war anymore.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576370639187103746


you are talking about Russia , they still didn't learn the lesson and follow the Stalin ideology of quantity of the fire over its quality. some may say this defeat was necessary for Russia to wake it up from the cold war dream


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> was east and west Germany at brink of war in 1955 ? or any time after the blockade ended ?


Are you serious? I am sure US and Soviet Union is just playing a chess match all those year and not talking about actual hostilities.

Again, you are talking about "Hostilities", you don't need a physical dispute or a physical conflict to be in hostilities, if you do, *YOU ARE ARLEADY* at war one way or another, is it that hard to understand??

On the other hand, as other said in this thread, there are no requirement at all for barring country that have active hostilities to join NATO, again, the process are universal, you only need all other NATO member approve. Sure, individual country may think they don't want to fight for XYZ country and reject the bid, but there are no requirement to preclude country already at war from joining NATO.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Fighting with guns is getting boring.
> 
> I am enjoying the blowing up of the Pipelines.
> 
> I am waiting for TurkStream pipeline to be destroyed next.
> 
> Hope we will hear the good news in the next few days.











Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Polish made Krab howitzer explodes and destroys itself, indicating poor steel quality.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576303454917922817
> Kalashnikov shows modernized AK-74.


indicating over use , and not replacing the parts that need changed after 200-300 shell fired . show they have problem replacing the used one so they had to overuse the old ones


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Are you serious? I am sure US and Soviet Union is just playing a chess match all those year and not talking about actual hostilities.


actually they were playing chess match, just in the rest of the world it was more bloody than Europe. let keep bloodshed away from the homeland


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> indicating over use , and not replacing the parts that need changed after 200-300 shell fired . show they have problem replacing the used one so they had to overuse the old ones


Well, that's already on the ground, which mean it is likely had been replaced and discarded.

If that was overuse and have problem replacing it, you will see a bended barrel hanging on the shroud of the Krab.

Unless it's your claim that the barrel damaged and overheat from firing and the entire thing flew off. I have never seen failure like that. Again, I am a trained Tanker, and the barrel of a SPG is similar to the barrel on MBT in terms of function.



Hack-Hook said:


> actually they were playing chess match, just in the rest of the world it was more bloody than Europe. let keep bloodshed away from the homeland


Well, that mean there are hostilities......


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> strangely but Uncle Sam recognize it



Trump is a moron.



Hack-Hook said:


> United States recognition of the Golan Heights as part of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> again the mighty trump single handedly blown away your argument
> 
> guys a little history .
> the blockade started in 1948, it ended in 1949,
> Germany joined NATO in 1955. there was no border dispute no blockade in 1955
> 
> let just say they failed their obligation in helping Iran redesigning Arak Nuclear power-plant , or they failed to honor the deal we had on providing us with Airbus and ATR airplanes . or after USA left deal and reinstate sanction they promised they use Instex , to bypass the USA sanction , they failed to do that


That’s not what the JPCOA says.


https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/122460/full-text-of-the-iran-nuclear-deal.pdf


This also says that enrichment should be limited to 3.67%.
The last laugh appears to be on You.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Well, that's already on the ground, which mean it is likely had been replaced and discarded.
> 
> If that was overuse and have problem replacing it, you will see a bended barrel hanging on the shroud of the Krab.
> 
> Unless it's your claim that the barrel damaged and overheat from firing and the entire thing flew off. I have never seen failure like that. Again, I am a trained Tanker, and the barrel of a SPG is similar to the barrel on MBT in terms of function.


to me it looks like they use it till it broke in half 




you usually don't wait that long to replace the barrel , well unless you suggest they broke it after replacing it . that make no sense to me



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Trump is a moron.
> 
> 
> That’s not what the JPCOA says.
> 
> 
> https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/122460/full-text-of-the-iran-nuclear-deal.pdf


in jcpoa, there is some technical and financial duty for the countries who were part of it and they failed those.
its not the matter of Iran step back from obligation , its the matter that Iran made the decision you post after other party violated the treaty . we didn't violate the treaty for more than one year after west violation because Europe promised to use instex to render those violation ineffective they failed to do that . jcpoa was not all about Iran must not do something , it was if Iran not do something it receive something instead and west failed to deliver the something we supposed to receive


----------



## aviator_fan

These systems along with NASAMS were planned in June are now ready for delivery.

Given pretty much the absence of RuAF, is this a case of delivering because promised? I don't know what value they would provide in defending given they are primarily geared towards surface to air threat, and not ground artillery.

For counter drone, hope they have a better founter-measure.










Germany says it will supply Ukraine with air defense system in days


Germany will deliver the first of four advanced IRIS-T air defense systems to Ukraine to help ward off drone attacks, its defense minister Christine Lambrecht said.




www.cnbc.com





Germany says it will supply Ukraine with air defense system in days​Published Sat, Oct 1 20223:59 PM EDT




Share
Key Points

Germany will deliver the first of four advanced IRIS-T air defense systems to Ukraine to help ward off drone attacks, its defense minister Christine Lambrecht said.
Germany is facing calls to step up its support for Ukraine, including by sending offensive weapons such as the modern tanks Kyiv says it needs to take the fight to Russian forces.





German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht (R) attends a meeting with members of a Ukraine Security Consultative Group at the U.S. Air Base in Ramstein, western Germany, on April 26, 2022.
Andre Pain | AFP | Getty Images
Germany will deliver the first of four advanced IRIS-T air defense systems to Ukraine in the coming days to help ward off drone attacks, its defense minister Christine Lambrecht said during an unannounced visit to Odessa on Saturday.
As air raid sirens sounded in the port city above, Lambrecht held talks with her Ukrainian counterpart Oleksii Reznikov in an underground bunker. Lambrecht had extended a visit to nearby Moldova for the meeting.

“In a few days, we will deliver the very modern IRIS-T air defense system,” she told ARD television. “It is very important for drone defense in particular.”
Ukraine has been seeing more attacks from Iranian-made kamikaze drones in recent weeks, costing lives and causing serious damage to infrastructure.
It first emerged in May that Berlin was considering sending the IRIS-T surface-to-air defense system, which costs 150 million euros ($147 million) apiece.
The German armed forces themselves do not currently own the system, reckoned among the world’s most advanced.
Earlier, meeting her Moldovan counterpart Anatolie Nosatii in Chisinau, she urged Western countries not to be deterred from arming Ukraine by threats that Russia could use nuclear weapons.

“We have to be very careful,” she said. “But we mustn’t let ourselves be paralyzed.”
Germany is facing calls to step up its support for Ukraine, including by sending offensive weapons such as the modern tanks Kyiv says it needs to take the fight to Russian forces.
Berlin has so far resisted such calls, arguing that such moves would escalate the situation and pointing out that no other country has so far sent tanks more modern than old Soviet stock sent by former Warsaw Pact countries.


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> we are not talking about strategic mindset of cold war , we are dealing with one question.
> Did West Germany had any border dispute with any country at 1955 when it joined NATO ? I'm not aware of any.


West Germany never recognized East Germany as a sovereign state, but part of Germany.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Trump is a moron.


you receive no argument from me there, but here we have a word that say "a moron throw a rock in a well that 100 sage can't remove" . the moron was USA president and had the power to do a lot of damage and he actually used that power to do those damage to both others and USA itself


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> to me it looks like they use it till it broke in half
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you usually don't wait that long to replace the barrel , well unless you suggest they broke it after replacing it . that make no sense to me


well, again, I don't know how long have they been using that gun, as I said, it can be critical failure, it's uncommon but it happened. But most likely scenario is that they are either in the process or before/after the replacement. I mean not tank gun, but I did burn a few of M240 Barrel myself for overusing it, they are made to be able to change with minimal effort for a reason.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> West Germany never recognized East Germany as a sovereign state, but part of Germany.


not never in early 70s they recognize each other


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> not never in early 70s they recognize each other


No never
Germany “Grundgesetz” - the basic laws - forbid the recognition, consider east Germany as illegal separatists.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> well, again, I don't know how long have they been using that gun, as I said, it can be critical failure, it's uncommon but it happened. But most likely scenario is that they are either in the process or before/after the replacement. I mean not tank gun, but I did burn a few of M240 Barrel myself for overusing it, they are made to be able to change with minimal effort for a reason.


they are using those guns 24/7 against Russia , I say they easily can reach thousands of use after they received them m you can see the gun in back it don't have a barrel i say the rest of the guns there also see that much use and need barrel replacement . but how good the supply is I don't knew , only knew they are lucky the failure of these guns happen at middle of barrel not like m40 recoilless gun that explode at the base of the barrel if you overuse it



Viet said:


> No never
> Germany “Grundgesetz” - the basic laws - forbid the recognition, consider east Germany as illegal separatists.


they recognize each other and that's how they manage to enter UN


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> not never in early 70s they recognize each other


Yes by the WW2 victors: USSR, US, UK and France but not by west Germany.
You should understand until reunification in 1990 Germany was an occupied country. West Germany accepted the pact because there was no to little other options. Russia has 20 army divisions in east Germany.
The entry to UN followed by 4 power agreement.








Four Power Agreement on Berlin - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Yes by the WW2 victors: USSR, US, UK and France but not by west Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four Power Agreement on Berlin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org


come on both country had official representative in other country 




__





Basic Treaty, 1972 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> come on both country had official representative in other country
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basic Treaty, 1972 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Not what you think of. Not embassy.
West Germany did not allow it. It was called “Ständige Vertretung“ - permanent representative. Much like a Sales office. You can call it a downgraded embassy.









Ständige Vertretungen der Bundesrepublik Deutschland und der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik – Wikipedia







de.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576426893410111488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576436688674443264


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> to me it looks like they use it till it broke in half
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you usually don't wait that long to replace the barrel , well unless you suggest they broke it after replacing it . that make no sense to me
> 
> 
> in jcpoa, there is some technical and financial duty for the countries who were part of it and they failed those.
> its not the matter of Iran step back from obligation , its the matter that Iran made the decision you post after other party violated the treaty . we didn't violate the treaty for more than one year after west violation because Europe promised to use instex to render those violation ineffective they failed to do that . jcpoa was not all about Iran must not do something , it was if Iran not do something it receive something instead and west failed to deliver the something we supposed to receive


Thats is not what JPCOA says as far as i can tell.
You have the link, so point out what clause was violated.
Especially your point about Airbus.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576421396355289089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576382440155025408


----------



## khansaheeb

PakFactor said:


> Let's not make HIMARS some magical weapon, and the main issue lies with the Russian war machine from tactics, implementation, and logistics (outside of corruption). The Russians are fighting as if it's still World War 1 & 2. They've not advanced in warfighting as one would have hoped. Another issue lies with no NCO and having a conscription-based army; this surprised me the most.
> 
> Lastly, Ukraine getting an endless supply of weaponry is another issue Russia didn’t tackle early on.


That's what surprised me the most at the beginning of the war the fact that Russia committed a small number of soldiers to the invasion and did not take sealing of the NATO-Ukraine borders seriously which made me suspect perhaps he is an oligarch in disguise and not a man of the people. Putin seems to be finishing off what Brezhnev/ Gorbachev started the permanent dismantling and destruction of communism and the splintering of Russia. The consequence of this will be more Muslim states will become independent , expansion of NATO and the complete encircling of China and India. Sooner or later India will fall out of favour as the colonial forces relabel enemies. The mole/agent is the most potent weapon of war.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> That's what surprised me the most at the beginning of the war the fact that Russia committed a small number of soldiers to the invasion and did not take sealing of the NATO-Ukraine borders seriously which made me suspect perhaps he is an oligarch in disguise and not a man of the people. Putin seems to be finishing off what Brezhnev/ Gorbachev started the permanent dismantling and destruction of communism and the splintering of Russia. The consequence of this will be more Muslim states will become independent , expansion of NATO and the complete encircling of China and India. Sooner or later India will fall out of favour as the colonial forces relabel enemies. The mole/agent is the most potent weapon of war.


It seems to me that Putin planned this war as a kindergarten. He pushed Shoigu and Gerassimov aside. What can people expect from an ex spy as military chief? Nothing.

He invaded a country larger in size than Germany with an army less than 300,000 men. Now he seeks to refresh by additional 300,000 men.

No, unless Putin goes all out calling general mobilization this war will end very ugly for Russia army. This war is lost for Russia no matter what coming next anyway.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> It seems to me that Putin planned this war as a kindergarten. He pushed Shoigu and Gerassimov aside. What can people expect from an ex spy as military chief? Nothing.
> 
> He invaded a country larger in size than Germany with an army less than 300,000 men. Now he seeks to refresh by additional 300,000 men.
> 
> No, unless Putin goes all out calling general mobilization this war will end very ugly for Russia army. This war is lost for Russia no matter what coming next anyway.



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. 300,000 versus 300,000 is enough. The Russian army will constantly be reinforced to replace losses. The Ukrainian army cannot be reinforced to replace losses due to a quarter of the population. Over the years, Ukraine will run out of men and Kiev will become vulnerable to attack.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> The rest of the world? What do you think China would do if Taiwan declares independence and is about to lose? We would have done the same. The key is balance of power. US and the West is bullying all other countries and disrespecting boundaries. Its not gonna be nice when everything is controlled by the US corporatoracy
> 
> 
> That's my point, Nobody will, so stop poking the bear damn it.


Just to be clear. Ukraine is defending its territory against an invading force. What this invading force could or would do if facing a humiliating defeat remains to be seen. 
This russian fueled narrative of the west being the reason Russia is invading Ukraine and by some strange reason waging a defensive war, is ridiculous. From a european perspective there is nothing nice about Russia invading westward. Nobody here, including the socalled pro-russians on PDF living in Europe, wants to replace democracy and equality with a life under Russian influence and kleptocracy.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Just to be clear. Ukraine is defending its territory against an invading force. What this invading force could or would do if facing a humiliating defeat remains to be seen.
> This russian fueled narrative of the west being the reason Russia is invading Ukraine and by some strange reason waging a defensive war, is ridiculous. From a european perspective there is nothing nice about Russia invading westward. Nobody here, including the socalled pro-russians on PDF living in Europe, wants to replace democracy and equality with a life under Russian influence and kleptocracy.



After annexation, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaphrazhia are as Russian land as Moscow. From now on, Russian soldiers fight for these land as if they are fighting for Moscow. The morale will be high.


----------



## PakFactor

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> After annexation, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaphrazhia are as Russian land as Moscow. From now on, Russian soldiers fight for these land as if they are fighting for Moscow. The morale will be high.



You have got to be shitting me

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. 300,000 versus 300,000 is enough. The Russian army will constantly be reinforced to replace losses. The Ukrainian army cannot be reinforced to replace losses due to a quarter of the population. Over the years, Ukraine will run out of men and Kiev will become vulnerable to attack.


Attackers need 4-5 times in numbers than defenders. Russia needs 4-5 million soldiers as Ukraine can assemble 1 million men and women. 300k to invade a country is rediculous.
The PLA invaded Vietnam northern front in 1979 by more than 600,000 men. They attacked against Vietnam forces of 100,000 men and women.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Attackers need 4-5 times in numbers than defenders. Russia needs 4-5 million soldiers as Ukraine can assemble 1 million men and women.



4-5 times for attacking only applies if hardware and technology are the same. Russia has better hardware, better technology. 300 mm Smerch / Tornado-S + Iskander versus 227 mm HIMARS, attack choppers, 203 mm Malka guns versus 155 mm M777 guns. This mean Russia only need as many men as Ukrainians when attacking.



PakFactor said:


> You have got to be shitting me



Why not? Just because Communist in 1920 said those cities belong to Ukraine does not make it so. Communists are wrong. These cities were always Russian.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 4-5 times for attacking only applies if hardware and technology are the same. Russia has better hardware, better technology. 300 mm Smerch / Tornado-S + Iskander versus 227 mm HIMARS, attack choppers, 203 mm Malka guns versus 155 mm M777 guns. This mean Russia only need as many men as Ukrainians when attacking.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? Just because Communist in 1920 said those cities belong to Ukraine does not make it so. Communists are wrong. These cities were always Russian.


Ok that explains why Russia turns to Iran for suicide drones, North Korea for dumb artillery ammo. I bet Putin will turn to China for ready to eat foods, Cuba for winter clothing, Syria for military advice.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ok that explains why Russia turns to Iran for suicide drones, North Korea for dumb artillery ammo.



Iran has been using drones since 80s. It is one of the earliest users of drones with a lot of experience. Russia and Iran are close allies. Sort of like between the US and the UK. The US uses M777 which was originally British. P-51 fighter plane uses British Merlin engine.









P-51 Mustang's Switch to Merlin Engine Made it the World-beater of World War II | Defense Media Network


A history of the P-51 Mustang and its switch to the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine during World War II.




www.defensemedianetwork.com


----------



## Dalit

thetutle said:


> Also some support isis, but they have no power.



Didn't you say the same about the Taliban once?



PakFactor said:


> You have got to be shitting me



He really isn't.



Viet said:


> Ok that explains why Russia turns to Iran for suicide drones, North Korea for dumb artillery ammo. I bet Putin will turn to China for ready to eat foods, Cuba for winter clothing, Syria for military advice.



It is funny how drunk you are. You have no qualms about the entire Western world collectively providing a helping hand to Ukraine. Yet here you are mocking certain countries for helping out Russia.

This is the reason why Russia won't stop and continue its march towards other regions of Ukraine. This war will last for many years and we will witness how Ukrainian regions shrink at a continuous pace.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Iran has been using drones since 80s. It is one of the earliest users of drones with a lot of experience. Russia and Iran are close allies. Sort of like between the US and the UK. The US uses M777 which was originally British. P-51 fighter plane uses British Merlin engine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P-51 Mustang's Switch to Merlin Engine Made it the World-beater of World War II | Defense Media Network
> 
> 
> A history of the P-51 Mustang and its switch to the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine during World War II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defensemedianetwork.com


Wrong, Iran and Russia are not ally. They are hate brothers. bound by the common hatred against the west. A mullah regime colludes with a facist. Nothing else.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> It seems to me that Putin planned this war as a kindergarten. He pushed Shoigu and Gerassimov aside. What can people expect from an ex spy as military chief? Nothing.
> 
> He invaded a country larger in size than Germany with an army less than 300,000 men. Now he seeks to refresh by additional 300,000 men.
> 
> No, unless Putin goes all out calling general mobilization this war will end very ugly for Russia army. This war is lost for Russia no matter what coming next anyway.



Dude, Russia has all the time in the world. As far as I can see, Russia started empty handed and this is the result since the war began:







Russia has annexed critical Ukrainian regions at the border which are under its control. Don't expect things to stay like this because Putin isn't stopping anytime soon. Ukraine is going to lose more land. Russian advances are increasing like an oil spill.



Viet said:


> Wrong, Iran and Russia are not ally. They are hate brothers. bound by the common hatred against the west. A mullah regime colludes with a facist. Nothing else.



LOL who was ever a friend of anyone in this world of politics and backstabbing? Countries only unite because they have converging interests.

You have an ally called India that buys cheap oil and gas from Russia. India also buys huge quantities of arms from Russia. Doesn't India claim to be the best friend of the US and West?


----------



## Dalit

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 884058



LOL Israel is sitting quietly in a corner. This should tell you guys how divided the world is with regards to Ukraine war.

This war has put the entire Western world into a serious bind. Gone are the days where wars used to take place in so-called far away places. What goes around comes around.


----------



## Viet

Dalit said:


> Dude, Russia has all the time in the world. As far as I can see, Russia started empty handed and this is the result since the war began:
> 
> View attachment 884106
> 
> 
> Russia has annexed critical Ukrainian regions at the border which are under its control. Don't expect things to stay like this because Putin isn't stopping anytime soon. Ukraine is going to lose more land. Russian advances are increasing like an oil spill.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL who was ever a friend of anyone in this world of politics and backstabbing? Countries only unite because they have converging interests.
> 
> You have an ally called India that buys cheap oil and gas from Russia. India also buys huge quantities of arms from Russia. Doesn't India claim to be the best friend of the US and West?


I am a supporter of underdog.
Do you think Russia can get away with that? You are too delusional. How long Russia will push young men to die in a hopeless war?
You forget Russia pays a price.
Russia as energy supplier to Europe is finished. Russia economy is collapsing. Russia infra from aviation to agriculture will disintegrate. Mass exodus of men and women out of country. Mass exodus of foreign companies. Mass disinvestment.
Even if, even if those pieces of lands Putin managed to occupy, those lands will be covered by mass graves, there will be no life. Will you go there and build a home?

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> I am a supporter of underdog.
> Do you think Russia can get away with that? You are too delusional. How long Russia will push young men to die in a hopeless war?
> You forget Russia pays a price.
> Russia as energy supplier to Europe is finished. Russia economy is collapsing. Russia infra from aviation to agriculture will disintegrate. Mass exodus of men and women out of country.
> Even those pieces of lands Putin managed to occupy will be cover by mass graves, there will be no life. Will you go there and build a home?



Remember these infamous words? We will see.

No amount of crocodile tears you shed can convince anyone. You reap what you sow. This is karma striking back with extreme vengeance.

Russia will be fine. Always has been fine. You thought that Russia was finished after the Cold War. Of course Russia wasn't finished. Russia only became resurgent. Today you are again praying and hoping against all hope.

Let me lay it out for you. At the end of this journey, Russia will have annexed and conquered large swaths of Ukrainian land. The West will have to accept the new reality.

It is hilarious how people start crying when they are dealing with their own pain as opposed to other people's pains. When we inflict pain and suffering on others we like to pretend that this is all done in Lord's name. The hypocrisy has never been clearer. What goes around comes around. No doubt.


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> That's what surprised me the most at the beginning of the war the fact that Russia committed a small number of soldiers to the invasion and did not take sealing of the NATO-Ukraine borders seriously which made me suspect perhaps he is an oligarch in disguise and not a man of the people. Putin seems to be finishing off what Brezhnev/ Gorbachev started the permanent dismantling and destruction of communism and the splintering of Russia. The consequence of this will be more Muslim states will become independent , expansion of NATO and the complete encircling of China and India. Sooner or later India will fall out of favour as the colonial forces relabel enemies. The mole/agent is the most potent weapon of war.


Said it time and again, Western Ukraine (where they border Poland) is out of range of Russia. They can't interdict the Border between Ukraine and Poland because it is 500 miles to the nearest Russian Airbase in either Transnistria or Belarus. without advance electronic jamming and stealth technology, any Air interdiction along the entire line of Polish border will be more or less suicide, you can't cover 500 miles open sky with legacy fighter AA will make mincemeat out of them. The only way they can touch the Polish border is to use long range cruise or ballistic missile, which is cost Prohibitive to do so. 

Also, any miscalculation from the Russia side, like a bomb dropped into Poland or a missile fired in Polish direction or even accidental aerial intrusion will risk bringing NATO into the fight.

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Remember these infamous words? We will see.
> 
> No amount of crocodile tears you shed can convince anyone. You reap what you sow. This is karma striking back with extreme vengeance.
> 
> Russia will be fine. Always has been fine. You thought that Russia was finished after the Cold War. Of course Russia wasn't finished. Russia only became resurgent. Today you are again praying and hoping against all hope.


Soviet union collapsed leading to a loss of so many of its former occupied/warsaw pact nations that firmly sided with EU/Nato. 

Russia is now imploding its military and even soviet stocks against what used to be a firm part of the soviet union….
Ukraine now firmly pro nato…and sweden/finland joined as well. 


Dalit said:


> Let me lay it out for you. At the end of this journey, Russia will have annexed and conquered large swaths of Ukrainian land. The West will have to accept the new reality.


Oh that is why since march russia holds less ground.
And since september we see them being routed several times…



Dalit said:


> It is hilarious how people start crying when they are dealing with their own pain as opposed to other people's pains. When we inflict pain and suffering on others we like to pretend that this is all done in Lord's name. The hypocrisy has never been clearer. What goes around comes around. No doubt.


Because of your mental issues with “the west” you throw ukraine under the bus and cheer for an imperialist russia. 

Sad stuff. Especially considering your leeching of the west generosity and hospitality yourself…

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> Remember these infamous words? We will see.
> 
> No amount of crocodile tears you shed can convince anyone. You reap what you sow. This is karma striking back with extreme vengeance.
> 
> Russia will be fine. Always has been fine. You thought that Russia was finished after the Cold War. Of course Russia wasn't finished. Russia only became resurgent. Today you are again praying and hoping against all hope.
> 
> Let me lay it out for you. At the end of this journey, Russia will have annexed and conquered large swaths of Ukrainian land. The West will have to accept the new reality.
> 
> It is hilarious how people start crying when they are dealing with their own pain as opposed to other people's pains. When we inflict pain and suffering on others we like to pretend that this is all done in Lord's name. The hypocrisy has never been clearer. What goes around comes around. No doubt.


That’s why I don’t understand. Russia has massiv lands, why they need more? Putin and his gang, nothing more than thieves.
Anyway, talking to dummy seems worthless. Ukraine army is on the move. That matters.

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## kingQamaR

Fantastic news, Ive been hoping and expecting the Ukrainians would take Lyman. The Russians had built up extensive defence lines on the west of the city but the Ukrainians have gone round them and attacked from the rear. The Ukrainians are very astute and well led, 

Something of a Maginot line win, just hop around the back and Bob's your uncle.

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## jhungary

According to a Telegram channel I followed (Ukraine 365 News)

They posted 2 videos purporting the Russian leaving Kreminna under the cover of darkness yesterday.

One video is pitch black with the Russia in the background saying "We have left Kreminna"
Another video is a Russian soldier swear in front of the camera and tell the camera that there are no one in Kreminna and they are there last, and ask where is 208? (208 motor rifle regiment, the one defending Kreminna)"

I cannot authenticate the validity of the video, and my Russian is not as good as it was used to be.

Here is the channel you can view if you want, if you don't want to sub to Telegram (some people don't want to) I can clip the video out and put it somewhere for you and you can watch it yourself.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576480412020264960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576200011766849541

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576462685872349184

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Soviet union collapsed leading to a loss of so many of its former occupied/warsaw pact nations that firmly sided with EU/Nato.
> 
> Russia is now imploding its military and even soviet stocks against what used to be a firm part of the soviet union….
> Ukraine now firmly pro nato…and sweden/finland joined as well.
> 
> Oh that is why since march russia holds less ground.
> And since september we see them being routed several times…
> 
> 
> Because of your mental issues with “the west” you throw ukraine under the bus and cheer for an imperialist russia.
> 
> Sad stuff. Especially considering your leeching of the west generosity and hospitality yourself…



Keep crying. Like I said, what goes around comes around. You are paying for sins committed against others. No rocket science. If you had the ability of self-accountability you would know that this is justice.



Viet said:


> That’s why I don’t understand. Russia has massiv lands, why they need more? Putin and his gang, nothing more than thieves.
> Anyway, talking to dummy seems worthless. Ukraine army is on the move. That matters.



You are using Ukraine as a choking point against Russia. It makes full sense for Russia to retaliate.

Aren't you preparing Taiwan against China? You play all these nefarious games, but when something happens to you it is all hell.


----------



## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Keep crying. Like I said, what goes around comes around. You are paying for sins you committed against. If you had the ability of self accountability you would know that this is only justice.
> 
> 
> 
> You are using Ukraine as a choking point against Russia. It makes full sense for Russia to retaliate.
> 
> Aren't you preparing Taiwan against China?


Crying? I am celebrating ukraines recent sucesses on the battlefield (slava ukraini) and the degradation of russia from a near peer 2nd strongest military to a mere regional power. 
After this, no longer will we have to worry about the russians annexing territory here and there. 

Sniff more copium buddy. Russia 3 day mission great succes!!!

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## Viet

Christine Lambrecht, Germany’s defense minister visits Odessa.
A captured tank from Russia army made her laughing.
the tank was probably in service in the war against the German Wehrmacht.
I must admit the russians know how to keep tanks well for 70 years. Russians know wars keep coming.






Verteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht (SPD, 3.v.l) besichtigt eine Verteidigungsstellung außerhalb von Odessa und lässt sich einen von den Russen erbeuteten Panzer zeigen
Quelle: dpa/Jörg Blank

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## Han Patriot

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia had 8 years to empower people of Luhansk and Donbass so they can do the fight , if they armed and trained those people and let they finish the job there never would have been such reaction from the NATO.


NATO has no say in this shit okay.. It's an internal Russosphere problem. Stop poking and starting WW3.



MeFishToo said:


> Just to be clear. Ukraine is defending its territory against an invading force. What this invading force could or would do if facing a humiliating defeat remains to be seen.
> This russian fueled narrative of the west being the reason Russia is invading Ukraine and by some strange reason waging a defensive war, is ridiculous. From a european perspective there is nothing nice about Russia invading westward. Nobody here, including the socalled pro-russians on PDF living in Europe, wants to replace democracy and equality with a life under Russian influence and kleptocracy.


And the Russian people in Ukriane are defending their own? Why the double standard?


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## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> NATO has no say in this shit okay.. It's an internal Russosphere problem. Stop poking and starting WW3.
> 
> 
> And the Russian people in Ukriane are defending their own? Why the double standard?


Putin doesnt care about PEOPLE. Stop pretending. Putin cares about power and a desire to dictate the russian perception of his legacy. He is a con man running a cuckoos nest holding nuclear weapons. Its a freaking disaster.

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## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> NATO has no say in this shit okay.. It's an internal Russosphere problem. Stop poking and starting WW3.
> 
> 
> And the Russian people in Ukriane are defending their own? Why the double standard?


I thought china was all about sovereignity and territorial integrity. 

Why are they now throwing their ukranian allies under the bus? 

If russia can annex territory because of a ethnic/language tie with a fifth column…i guess turkey can do the same with the uyghurs?

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> I thought china was all about sovereignity and territorial integrity.
> 
> Why are they now throwing their ukranian allies under the bus?
> 
> If russia can annex territory because of a ethnic/language tie with a fifth column…i guess turkey can do the same with the uyghurs?


That is what mr Han Job here don't know. 

If China started to openly support Separatist Movement anywhere in the world, then those people are going to pay back to the Chinese own 56 different ethnic people. 

Fun fact, Russia only made up of 15 or 16 different ethnics group, it will be a field day if outside power uses the same separatist issue to divide China. That's why Mr Han Job here cry all day and wondering why China did not support Russia. He wouldn't even know why. 

But then what do you expect from people like him? He said on the other threat "Russian and Ukrainian only of slightly different." Yeah, even their religion (Russian Orthodox vs Ukrainian Orthodox) is different, and he have no idea how or why the group splintered off anyway, and yet Mr Han Job here have no problem blabbing something he don't understand lol. It just too cringe to watch.

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Crying? I am celebrating ukraines recent sucesses on the battlefield (slava ukraini) and the degradation of russia from a near peer 2nd strongest military to a mere regional power.
> After this, no longer will we have to worry about the russians annexing territory here and there.
> 
> Sniff more copium buddy. Russia 3 day mission great succes!!!



You lost. Give it up. The fact that you guys have to spend hours and hundreds of posts spewing nonsense day in day out is enough indication. Sitting comfortably behind your keyboard and copying pasting stuff. A waste of time.

Putin has the upperhand. That is just a simple fact. Russia is sending its military power into Ukraine and all you can do is send weapons to Ukraine. Letting the Ukrainians die and do the fighting for you. Send your soldiers to Ukraine and we will talk.

You couldn't win in Afghanistan. The Afghan army was wise to run from day one realising they were fighting your war. Russia will kick your arse in its neighborhood. You are provoking a giant in its own neighborhood. Don't even try fool.


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## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> I thought china was all about sovereignity and territorial integrity.
> 
> Why are they now throwing their ukranian allies under the bus?
> 
> If russia can annex territory because of a ethnic/language tie with a fifth column…i guess turkey can do the same with the uyghurs?



Is my name China? Lol. Respect traditional spheres, if US threatened nuclear war in Cuba, Russia can do the same in an Ex Soviet state.



MeFishToo said:


> Putin doesnt care about PEOPLE. Stop pretending. Putin cares about power and a desire to dictate the russian perception of his legacy. He is a con man running a cuckoos nest holding nuclear weapons. Its a freaking disaster.


Putin cares about Russia, if he doesn't care about Russia, it might have been easier being an American puppy like Germany or UK. Germany is technically still occupied by US. About the people aspect, I am not sure if Biden cares about his people too. Giving Ukraine 40bil$ while the American ppl are suffering.


----------



## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> You lost. Give it up. The fact that you guys have to spend hours and hundreds of posts spewing nonsense day in day out is enough indication.
> 
> Putin has the upperhand. That is just a simple fact. Russia is sending its military power into Ukraine and all you can do send weapons to Ukraine. Letting Ukrainians die and do your fighting. Send your soldiers to Ukraine and we will talk.


The funny thing is…we dont even have to.
With some economic and material support, ukraine is more then capable of liberating lost territories. Meanwhile russia is imploding militarily and economically. 

Adding 300.000 low morale and hardly trained cannon fodder will not change battlefield realities. 

Seeing how you are discussing your own fantasy where russias 3day offensive was a smashing succes…i will ignore you now till you have something worthwhile to add to the actual turn of events

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## Han Patriot

Dalit said:


> You lost. Give it up. The fact that you guys have to spend hours and hundreds of posts spewing nonsense day in day out is enough indication. Sitting comfortably behind your keyboard and copying pasting stuff. A waste of time.
> 
> Putin has the upperhand. That is just a simple fact. Russia is sending its military power into Ukraine and all you can do is send weapons to Ukraine. Letting Ukrainians die and do the fighting for you. Send your soldiers to Ukraine and we will talk.


Ppl don't understand the definition of victory. They think Putin wants to gobble up the whole Ukraine. His aim is neutralisation of Ukraine and he has been very direct about this. Make Ukraine neutral or else we neutralise them. This can mean tactical nukes or just destroying their industrial base. Novorussiya is just a side prize.


----------



## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> The funny thing is…we dont even have to.
> With some economic and material support, ukraine is more then capable of liberating lost territories. Meanwhile russia is imploding militarily and economically.
> 
> Adding 300.000 low morale and hardly trained cannon fodder will not change battlefield realities.
> 
> Seeing how you are discussing your own fantasy where russias 3day offensive was a smashing succes…i will ignore you now till you have something worthwhile to add to the actual turn of events



Look at him triggered. Your Ukrainian buddies are cannon fodder. You are using the Ukrainians for your own war and enmity with Russia. The Ukrainians are foolish to die for you.

You need to ignore yourself. Mute yourself for a few weeks because all that you have claimed has turned out to be untrue. Russia is in the driving seat. Russia has annexed Ukrainian land and all you can do is fume.


----------



## Viet

Worthless sacrifices 

Lots of 5,000 russian soldiers have not managed to escape the encirclement at Lyman.






Bild vergrößern
Eine ukrainische Flagge weht in einem Dorf nahe Lyman

Foto: Anadolu Agency / Getty Images

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> Worthless sacrifices
> 
> Lots of 5,000 russian soldiers have not managed to escape the encirclement at Lyman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Eine ukrainische Flagge weht in einem Dorf nahe Lyman
> 
> Foto: Anadolu Agency / Getty Images



The Russians will retrieve each territory. Only a matter of time.

You better prepare for a lengthy war boy. This is only the beginning.

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Worthless sacrifices
> 
> Lots of 5,000 russian soldiers have not managed to escape the encirclement at Lyman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Eine ukrainische Flagge weht in einem Dorf nahe Lyman
> 
> Foto: Anadolu Agency / Getty Images


I will bet with you the end is not a Ukrainian victory. How much you want to bet. The end is a Ukraine is ruins with 4 new Russian territories.

And also inflation in the West. Even shake gas prices are up 300% in the US.


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## Dalit

Han Patriot said:


> I will bet with you the end is not a Ukrainian victory. How much you want to bet. The end is a Ukraine is ruins with 4 new Russian territories.
> 
> And also inflation in the West. Even shake gas prices are up 300% in the US.



These European suckers are licking their wounds. The whole world is witnessing how Western hegemony is being challanged in broad daylight. One country Russia is pouncing on them all.

We were promised that Russian economy would be annihilated and Russia won't be able to fight within days. Here we are. The tables have been turned. Russia is turning off the gas tap and we can see the effects in many European capitals. Inflation is getting higher. The European economic crisis instigated by the war in Ukraine is real. It was supposed to be a one-way street.

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## yuba

Han Patriot said:


> I will bet with you the end is not a Ukrainian victory. How much you want to bet. The end is a Ukraine is ruins with 4 new Russian territories.
> 
> And also inflation in the West. Even shake gas prices are up 300% in the US.


Even though not my fight i love a bet got caned yesterday because Liverpool conceded late goal . Must be a way mods can take our bank details and when we know the result and who won they can take it . How much you want to bet


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## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> Is my name China? Lol. Respect traditional spheres, if US threatened nuclear war in Cuba, Russia can do the same in an Ex Soviet state.
> 
> 
> Putin cares about Russia, if he doesn't care about Russia, it might have been easier being an American puppy like Germany or UK. Germany is technically still occupied by US. About the people aspect, I am not sure if Biden cares about his people too. Giving Ukraine 40bil$ while the American ppl are suffering.


Since you are so much against countries being a puppy, how come you want Ukraine to be a russian puppy?

Im not sure how Biden supporting Ukraine relates to the fact that Putin doesnt care about people. Is that just deflection? Its obvious Putin is using people _speaking_ russian as pretext to influence and annex foreign territory in order to satisfy his imperial ambitions. He couldnt care less about the people residing in those territories.


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> I will bet with you the end is not a Ukrainian victory. How much you want to bet. The end is a Ukraine is ruins with 4 new Russian territories.
> 
> And also inflation in the West. Even shake gas prices are up 300% in the US.


Ok I take the bet. What do you want to give if you lose? About inflation, that’s a temporary market reaction to a shortage. That won’t last forever.

There is no lack of oil and gas on markets. The problem is transport, and time of delivery.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576462685872349184


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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> Since you are so much against countries being a puppy, how come you want Ukraine to be a russian puppy?
> 
> Im not sure how Biden supporting Ukraine relates to the fact that Putin doesnt care about people. Is that just deflection? Its obvious Putin is using people _speaking_ russian as pretext to influence and annex foreign territory in order to satisfy his imperial ambitions. He couldnt care less about the people residing in those territories.



Deal with it. Putin would rather have Ukraine on its side than becoming a EU puppet. The Europeans got little in common with Ukraine. Russia on the otherhand is literally a big brother of Ukraine. It makes full sense for Ukraine to be aligned with Russia as opposed to Europe.


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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Deal with it. Putin would rather have Ukraine on its side than becoming a EU puppet.



Russia has already lost strategically and Ukraine now liberating its territory. Ukraine has all the momentum and initiative.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has already lost strategically and Ukraine now liberating its territory. Ukraine has all the momentum and initiative.



Says the American poodle. You were also winning in Afghanistan not so long ago until you were not. Give it up.


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## jhungary

yuba said:


> Even though not my fight i love a bet got caned yesterday because Liverpool conceded late goal . Must be a way mods can take our bank details and when we know the result and who won they can take it . How much you want to bet



lol, you really have to be stupid to bet on Russia on this.

He nuke Ukraine, he gets nothing, He don't nuke Ukraine, he also gets nothing.

The problem is, in Military Term, he had wasted too much time and resource on places he should not have been. As I said before, even if he mobilise the entire Russian population into this war, he will still lose, he don't have the time to equip and train his army. It would have been fine if he mobilise back in March, now you would have combat ready troop ready to go in October. Instead, he can at best give them a week of training and then push them to the front line, facing the battle hardened Ukrainian.

*There should be a prerequisite for anyone who bet on Russia to go be one of these "Mobilised Troop" and then if he is alive in 6 months, I will take that bet.*

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> Deal with it. Putin would rather have Ukraine on its side than becoming a EU puppet. The Europeans got little in common with Ukraine. Russia on the otherhand is literally a big brother of Ukraine. It makes full sense for Ukraine to be aligned with Russia as opposed to Europe.


Just because you didnt adress me doesnt mean I havent read your previous posts. Take your anti western rhetoric and trolling somewhere else.

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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> Just because you didnt adress me doesnt mean I havent read your previous posts. Take your anti western rhetoric and trolling somewhere else.



That is all you guys got. You have a laudry list of enemies. China is your enemy. Russia your enemy. Iran is your enemy. Pakistan is your enemy. Islam is your enemy. Immigrants are your enemy. Enemies, enemies and more enemies. When will you guys stop hating others? When things don't go your way you start crying like babies. It is payback time. This is karma at work. You won't learn from it though.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576509318282608640
Some breakthrough for Ukraine just to the northeast of Kherson

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## kingQamaR

Han Patriot said:


> I will bet with you the end is not a Ukrainian victory. How much you want to bet. The end is a Ukraine is ruins with 4 new Russian territories.
> 
> And also inflation in the West. Even shake gas prices are up 300% in the US.



I feel for the conscripts. Many of them are now elderly men with no military training. This is so sad and disgusting on every level Russia has lost the war

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576509503960649730

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576509503960649730



Short-lived celebrations. You guys were also winning in Afghanistan not so long ago. We all know how that turned out.


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## kingQamaR

Han Patriot said:


> NATO has no say in this shit okay.. It's an internal Russosphere problem. Stop poking and starting WW3.
> 
> 
> And the Russian people in Ukriane are defending their own? Why the double standard?



They could have followed Britain's example when we handed Hong Kong back to China recently. 3 million Hong Kong residents were offered a British visa. If Russia genuinely wanted to help people they could have offered a place in Russia to house them, after all they have plenty of empty land. They are using people as pawns, they only want to grab territory.

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Look at him triggered. Your Ukrainian buddies are cannon fodder. You are using the Ukrainians for your own war and enmity with Russia. The Ukrainians are foolish to die for you.
> 
> You need to ignore yourself. Mute yourself for a few weeks because all that you have claimed has turned out to be untrue. Russia is in the driving seat. Russia has annexed Ukrainian land and all you can do is fume.


Most of what i predicted here was spot on. Check post history. 
Unlike your clown posts. 

Russia annexed provinces it doesnt even fully control. It “annexed” Lyman which it just lost (with more to follow) 
Yes…so much for me to be angry about hahaha. 


@Han Patriot 
Your bets have been off so far. 
I cannot call ukraine a winner here (too much sacrifices made), but russia will not be able to hold these full 4 provinces. 
Depending on the weather it will be an interesting winter for europe…but i predict a russian collapse (militarily and economically) next year. 

A full mobilization will not be accepted by the russian public. Hopefully Putin will be kicked out and peace can find its way.


----------



## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> That is all you guys got. You have a laudry list of enemies. China is your enemy. Russia your enemy. Iran is your enemy. Pakistan is your enemy. Islam is your enemy. Immigrants are your enemy. Enemies, enemies and more enemies. When will you guys stop hating others? When things don't go your way you start crying like babies. It is payback time. This is karma at work. You won't learn from it though.


I used to waste my time speaking with people like you at places like IslamicAwakening.com. Ive been told we are all doomed for decades. Mostly by people living in Europe. What makes you any different?.. Nothing.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> I feel for the conscripts. Many of them are now elderly men with no military training. This is so sad and disgusting on every level Russia has lost the war


That's the problem Russia is facing from the beginning. 

Putin don't have enough troop to finish the job, he should have known that by April when they were forced to retreat from Kyiv. And if he were to continue with this war then, he should have at least partially mobilised his troop back then, then you get 3 to 6 months training, then you send them to Ukraine. That way, they will have a chance. 

On the other hand, Ukraine has been following a rigorous regime to train up new troop, Europe alone is training around 100,000 Ukrainian a year. Then armed them and ready them for the war. Ukraine itself probably can generate around 350 - 400,000 troop a single year, and they have been doing that since day 1. 

Not much of a chance when you send someone who probably had already forgotten which end the bullet comes out, give them 5 days training and ship them to the front. They would not even made a punching bag for the Ukrainian....

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Most of what i predicted here was spot on. Check post history.
> Unlike your clown posts.
> 
> Russia annexed provinces it doesnt even fully control. It “annexed” Lyman which it just lost (with more to follow)
> Yes…so much for me to be angry about hahaha.
> 
> 
> @Han Patriot
> Your bets have been off so far.
> I cannot call ukraine a winner here (too much sacrifices made), but russia will not be able to hold these full 4 provinces.
> Depending on the weather it will be an interesting winter for europe…but i predict a russian collapse (militarily and economically) next year.
> 
> A full mobilization will not be accepted by the russian public. Hopefully Putin will be kicked out and peace can find its way.



Your predictions are hot air. Everyone knows that I predicted trouble for European economies when the Ukraine war started. All the Europhiles on this forum thought that Russian economy would be eliminated within weeks. That didn't happen and the war is raging on. The Europeans are now readying for a cold winter. 

Russia has annexed important Ukrainian border areas and the Western powers have just looked on angrily. That is a nutshell the bitter truth.

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## yuba

jhungary said:


> lol, you really have to be stupid to bet on Russia on this.
> 
> He nuke Ukraine, he gets nothing, He don't nuke Ukraine, he also gets nothing.
> 
> The problem is, in Military Term, he had wasted too much time and resource on places he should not have been. As I said before, even if he mobilise the entire Russian population into this war, he will still lose, he don't have the time to equip and train his army. It would have been fine if he mobilise back in March, now you would have combat ready troop ready to go in October. Instead, he can at best give them a week of training and then push them to the front line, facing the battle hardened Ukrainian.
> 
> *There should be a prerequisite for anyone who bet on Russia to go be one of these "Mobilised Troop" and then if he is alive in 6 months, I will take that bet.*


I will give him 10/1 odds I'm saying the brave Ukrainians will take back all their land Crimea everything


----------



## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Short-lived celebrations. You guys were also winning in Afghanistan not so long ago. We all know how that turned out.



The US achieved its main goal of destroying Al Qaeda and occupied Afghanistan for 20 years. The US suffered only several hundred casualties in the last decade of the war. That’s how ineffective the Taliban were. Russia is suffering those type of casualties every single day. There’s no comparison. All the Taliban did was wait. 

Nation building failed because the Afghan people failed. The US got tired of helping a people that didn’t want to help themselves.

Afghanistan has been talked ad nauseum in this thread. Keep on topic

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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> I used to waste my time speaking with people like you at places like IslamicAwakening.com. Ive been told we are all doomed for decades. Mostly by people living in Europe. What makes you any different?.. Nothing.



Says the guy who is a false flagger. First hating China all day long on PDF. Now he has found a new hobby to hate Russia and worship Western masters. You are not fooling anybody.


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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> Says the guy who is false flagger. First hating China all day long on PDF. Now he has found a new hobby to hate Russia and worship Western masters. You are not fooling anybody.


Ill just put you on ignore. Have a nice life in Europe.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> The US achieved its main goal of destroying Al Qaeda and occupied Afghanistan for 20 years. The US suffered only several hundred casualties in the last decade of the war. That’s how ineffective the Taliban were. Russia is suffering those type of casualties every single day. There’s no comparison. All the Taliban did was wait.
> 
> Nation building failed because the Afghan people failed. The US got tired of helping a people that didn’t want to help themselves.
> 
> Afghanistan has been talked ad nauseum in this thread. Keep on topic



You didn't achieve anyhing. AQ will be back whenever you want it to be back. AQ has always been a favorite hoax terror group of the US. Right now you are preoccupied with Russia and China. When the time is convenient you will be back to Islamic terrorism blah blah.

The bitter truth is that you didn't even win during the Cold War because Russia was always present. Now a resurgent Russia is proving how to fight back and reclaim victory.

LOL sure. You blame the Afghans for defeat who didn't want to fight your bloody war. The truth is that you couldn't convince nor buy Afghan loyalty for 2 decades. The Afghans were your best buddies until you invaded their land and gave them suitcases filled with dollars. Once you exited the Afghans knew the score.



MeFishToo said:


> Ill just put you on ignore. Have a nice life in Europe.



Sure thing China Russia hater. What happened to your Uyghur propaganda? Looks like the Ukraine war has put your Uyghur obsession in cold storage.

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## jhungary

yuba said:


> I will give him 10/1 odds I'm saying the brave Ukrainians will take back all their land Crimea everything


Nah, 10/1 is still too hot, I will give him 25/1. Again, given if he volunteers to get drafted into Russian Army and send to Ukraine, and I will offer him 25/1 when he come back, if he come back.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576318859828547584

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## Han Patriot

ZeGerman said:


> Most of what i predicted here was spot on. Check post history.
> Unlike your clown posts.
> 
> Russia annexed provinces it doesnt even fully control. It “annexed” Lyman which it just lost (with more to follow)
> Yes…so much for me to be angry about hahaha.
> 
> 
> @Han Patriot
> Your bets have been off so far.
> I cannot call ukraine a winner here (too much sacrifices made), but russia will not be able to hold these full 4 provinces.
> Depending on the weather it will be an interesting winter for europe…but i predict a russian collapse (militarily and economically) next year.
> 
> A full mobilization will not be accepted by the russian public. Hopefully Putin will be kicked out and peace can find its way.


Why is my bet off when the war is still ongoing? =)

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## yuba

jhungary said:


> Nah, 10/1 is still too hot, I will give him 25/1. Again, given if he volunteers to get drafted into Russian Army and send to Ukraine, and I will offer him 25/1 when he come back, if he come back.


For him to actually be drafted and go fight i put up a Peterbilt 389t hat I drive in the states when we got a shortage of drivers.


----------



## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Ok I take the bet. What do you want to give if you lose? About inflation, that’s a temporary market reaction to a shortage. That won’t last forever.
> 
> There is no lack of oil and gas on markets. The problem is transport, and time of delivery.


I will bet Russia will win in the end. Definition of victory is all 4 territories will remain Russian and Ukraine will be in ruins. If I lose I will be gone from this thread forever. What say you!?

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## Dalit

Han Patriot said:


> Why is my bet off when the war is still ongoing? =)



These guys are high on arrogance, but make no mistake they are feeling the heat. I can feel their pain and anguish from a thousand miles. These are the same arrogant brutes that used to taunt us by picking sides and fuelling wars. They termed it as conducting "normal" business. They used to walk around with a grin on their faces. I know what changed. They are crying on a daily basis and wearing their blue yellow. They ain't fooling anybody.

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> I will bet Russia will win in the end. Definition of victory is all 4 territories will remain Russian and Ukraine will be in ruins. If I lose I will be gone from this thread forever. What say you!?


Not so my friend 

My definition of victory is who actually controls it, who seizes the territory, not by a clown that decides that is mine.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> Not so my friend
> 
> My definition of victory is who actually controls it, who seizes the territory, not by a clown that decides that is mine.



The last time I checked Russia seized and controlled the former Ukrainain territory.


----------



## Viet

Dalit said:


> The last time I checked Russia seized and controlled the former Ukrainain territory.


We are talking about 100 percent of control of 4 regions that Russia says it’s her. Not 50 percent, or less.

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> That's the problem Russia is facing from the beginning.
> 
> Putin don't have enough troop to finish the job, he should have known that by April when they were forced to retreat from Kyiv. And if he were to continue with this war then, he should have at least partially mobilised his troop back then, then you get 3 to 6 months training, then you send them to Ukraine. That way, they will have a chance.
> 
> On the other hand, Ukraine has been following a rigorous regime to train up new troop, Europe alone is training around 100,000 Ukrainian a year. Then armed them and ready them for the war. Ukraine itself probably can generate around 350 - 400,000 troop a single year, and they have been doing that since day 1.
> 
> Not much of a chance when you send someone who probably had already forgotten which end the bullet comes out, give them 5 days training and ship them to the front. They would not even made a punching bag for the Ukrainian....



The truth is, Russia has been humiliated in this war. An old and rusty military getting smashed by the not so equipped Ukrainian military. Heavy loses of Russian soldiers that will probably be hushed up and the true number of deaths hidden from the general population. And only small areas of land gained to show for it. You call that a win, Putin? Pathetic. Its weak, Russia looks weak. A national humiliation for the whole world to see. And now The Russian forces are now made up of retirees and conscripts who don't want to be there. The vast majority being untrained and unprepared.what could possibly go wrong !

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> We are talking about 100 percent of control of 4 regions that Russia says it’s her. Not 50 percent, or less.



Russia is in full control. Besides this war is ongoing so much will change in the coming days, weeks and months.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> The last time I checked Russia seized and controlled the former Ukrainain territory.



They control only 17% of Ukraine now, 6.5% of which was controlled prior to February. That number continues to decline


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> They control only 17% of Ukraine now, 6.5% of which was controlled prior to February. That number continues to decline



The number is actually increasing and the territories that Russians hold is firmly under their control.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> The number is actually increasing and the territories that Russians hold is firmly under their control.



They just lost the entire Kharkiv Oblast and now Lyman. Ukraine has all the momentum and initiative. Stop lying to yourself.

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> Russia is in full control. Besides this war is ongoing so much will change in the coming days, weeks and months.


Full control of what? Lyman just lost. Luhansk, Kherson will be next.
Most well trained Russia soldiers are either dead, wounded or disappeared. What now coming from partial mobilization are untrained, weaklings and cowards. Worthless. When they die or wounded they would not even know why they fight for, far from home in Ukraine.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576536328107610112

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## alimobin memon

Viet said:


> Full control of what? Lyman just lost. Luhansk, Kherson will be next.
> Most well trained Russia soldiers are either dead, wounded or disappeared. What now coming from partial mobilization are untrained, weaklings and cowards. Worthless. When they die or wounded they would not even know why they fight for, far from home in Ukraine.


There are losses and wins in battle. Referendum WITHOUT any impact is pointless. Russians are upto something and they are currently silent and ghost.

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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> There are losses and wins in battle. Referendum WITHOUT any impact is pointless. Russians are upto something and they are currently silent and ghost.


The problem is, what can Russia up to?

They are already in a war, they are already try to mobilse. If you look at all the option Putin have on his card, he only has 1 left, that's Nuclear Option. But then ask yourself this, will nuclear option help Russia? Or simply speed up their demise? Or in most case, all our demise??



Viet said:


> Full control of what? Lyman just lost. Luhansk, Kherson will be next.
> Most well trained Russia soldiers are either dead, wounded or disappeared. What now coming from partial mobilization are untrained, weaklings and cowards. Worthless. When they die or wounded they would not even know why they fight for, far from home in Ukraine.


I don't even think Putin have full control of Russia. A lot of dissent coming from the minority group, and it's not hard to find them, and that's driving a crack between already fragmented Russian community. If this is not taken care of, it could really lead to Russian Civil War.

I mean, why wouldn't you when you are Minority in Russia, and you suffer 70% of the lost in this war? Some Russian group even call this "Purification of Russia".


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> The problem is, what can Russia up to?
> 
> They are already in a war, they are already try to mobilse. If you look at all the option Putin have on his card, he only has 1 left, that's Nuclear Option. But then ask yourself this, will nuclear option help Russia? Or simply speed up their demise? Or in most case, all our demise??
> 
> 
> I don't even think Putin have full control of Russia. A lot of dissent coming from the minority group, and it's not hard to find them, and that's driving a crack between already fragmented Russian community. If this is not taken care of, it could really lead to Russian Civil War.
> 
> I mean, why wouldn't you when you are Minority in Russia, and you suffer 70% of the lost in this war? Some Russian group even call this "Purification of Russia".


Very dangerous moment. 100 percent certainty the US and NATO will enter the war, should Putin order a nuclear strike on Ukraine. The US has warned Russia and said the US and allies have everything in place.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576366100354584576


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## ZeGerman

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576318859828547584


Wow this is massive change.

In meantime european support per september for ukraine remains very high.

Lets see what will break first…

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Very dangerous moment. 100 percent certainty the US and NATO will enter the war, should Putin order a nuclear strike on Ukraine. The US has warned Russia and said the US and allies have everything in place.


As reported, NATO air asset in Eastern Europe is already running on "Dark" mode, they had turn off their transponder and F-35 have their Lumberg lens removed. That's what the NATO Air Force is going to do if and when there are indication Russia is going to use nuke.

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## RoadAmerica

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> You cannot include all US population.
> 
> Republican White kids are no longer interested in joining US military.
> 
> Democrat white kids are rich and not interested in joining US military anyway.
> 
> That leaves blacks, latinos and immigrants who want a green card to join the US military to be the guinea pigs.


I’ve previously pointed out over 2/3 of active duty are white so you’re fake news

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## Ali_Baba

*60,000 Russian Soldiers dead and 2,300 destroyed tanks so far ....*









Ukraine claims over 60,000 Russian soldiers killed and Lyman 'cleared'


Of the 60,110 Russian soldiers that have died fighting, according to the Ukrainian armed forces, 500 were lost in the last 24 hours, mostly in the areas of Kramatorsk and Bakhmut




www.dailymail.co.uk





And ... winter has yet to "come".... with destroyed ammo dumps and food stocks/supplies and poor russian logistics - Russia's ability to simply occupy land it has currently is massively comprimised - let a lone fight a contested war.. you are now looking at the start of the total collapse of the Russian presence in large swathes of occupied Ukraine.

HIMARs has totally destroyed the offensive capability of the Russian Army and also destroyed their ability to occupy those lands in winter conditions ...

Russia had to "wrap" this up before winter - and it has failed .. and in doing so - now - the entire special operation is due to collapse. I dont think Russia expecting to fight a war in winter and i really dont think they prepared for one, nor can they now prepare for it..

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Not what you think of. Not embassy.
> West Germany did not allow it. It was called “Ständige Vertretung“ - permanent representative. Much like a Sales office. You can call it a downgraded embassy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ständige Vertretungen der Bundesrepublik Deutschland und der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik – Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> de.m.wikipedia.org


they recognized each other otherwise they didn't open that. their admission in un condition was that they recognize each other


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> That’s why I don’t understand. Russia has massiv lands, why they need more? Putin and his gang, nothing more than thieves.
> Anyway, talking to dummy seems worthless. Ukraine army is on the move. That matters.



Russia has lots of land. But it is bad cold land in the north. Yakutia has 3 million square kilometers, only 1 million people. Farming is not possible in Yakutia. Russians need southern land just as Manchus need southern land for farming and invaded China.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Thats is not what JPCOA says as far as i can tell.
> You have the link, so point out what clause was violated.
> Especially your point about Airbus.


what link , they made a deal , after USA pulled out , they break the deal.
what you think JCPOA was about.
what was the role of Europe in it .
there is a hundred+ page thread about it in Iranian section . you can read it, wonder why you guys cant do a small search and everything must be fed to you



> 1
> Annex II – Sanctions-related commitments
> The sequence of implementation of the commitments detailed in this Annex is
> specified in Annex V (Implementation Plan) to this Joint Comprehensive Plan of
> Action (JCPOA).
> A. European Union1
> 1. The EU and EU Member States commit to terminate all provisions of
> Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012 (as subsequently amended)
> implementing all nuclear-related sanctions or restrictive measures as
> specified in Sections 1.1-1.10 below, to terminate all provisions of
> Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP (as subsequently amended), as
> specified in Sections 1.1-1.10 below, and to terminate or amend
> national implementing legislation as required, in accordance with
> Annex V:
> 1.1. Financial, banking and insurance measures2
> 1.1.1 Prohibition and authorisation regimes on financial transfers to and
> from Iran (Article 10 of Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 30,
> 30a, 30b and 31 of Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012);
> 1.1.2. Sanctions on banking activities (Article 11 of Council Decision
> 2010/413/CFSP; Article 33 of Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012);
> 1.1.3. Sanctions on insurance (Article 12 of Council Decision
> 2010/413/CFSP; Article 35 of Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012);
> 1.1.4. Sanctions on financial messaging services (Article 20(12) of Council
> Decision 2010/413/CFSP; Article 23(4) of Council Regulation (EU) No
> 267/2012);
> 1.1.5. Sanctions on financial support for trade with Iran ( Article 8 of
> Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP);
> 1.1.6. Sanctions on grants, financial assistance and concessional loans
> (Article 9 of Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP);
> 1 For the purposes of EU legislation, “Iranian person, entity or body” means:
> (i) the State of Iran or any public authority thereof;
> (ii) any natural person in, or resident in, Iran;
> (iii) any legal person, entity or body having its registered office in Iran;
> (iv) any legal person, entity or body, inside or outside Iran, owned or controlled directly or
> indirectly by one or more of the above mentioned persons or bodies.
> 2 The headings and subheadings in this Annex are for descriptive purposes only.
> 
> 2
> 1.1.7. Sanctions on Government of Iran public-guaranteed bonds (Article 13
> of Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP; Article 34 of Council Regulation
> (EU) No 267/2012); and
> 1.1.8. Sanctions on associated services3 for each of the categories above (see
> the references above).
> 1.2. Oil, gas and petrochemical sectors
> 1.2.1. Sanctions on the import of oil and gas from Iran ( Articles 3a, 3c and
> 3e of Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 11, 12 and 14a, and
> Annexes IV and IVA of Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012);
> 1.2.2. Sanctions on the import of Iranian petrochemical products ( Articles
> 3b and 3d of Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 13 and 14,
> and Annex V of Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012);
> 1.2.3. Sanctions on the export of key equipment for the oil, gas and
> petrochemical sectors (Articles 4, 4a and 4b of Council Decision
> 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 8, 9 and 10, and Annexes VI and VIA of
> Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012);
> 1.2.4. Sanctions on investment in the oil, gas and petrochemical sectors
> (Articles 6, 6a and 7 of Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP; Articles
> 17(1), 17(2)(b) and (c), 17(3), 17(4), 17(5), 20 and 21 of Council
> Regulation (EU) No 267/2012); and
> 1.2.5. Sanctions on associated services for each of the categories above (see
> the references above).
> 1.3. Shipping, shipbuilding and transport sectors
> 1.3.1. Sanctions related to shipping and shipbuilding (Articles 4g, 4h, 8a, 18a
> and 1 8b of Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 1 0a, 10b, 10c,
> 37a, and 37b, and Annex VIB of Council Regulation (EU) No
> 267/2012);
> 1.3.2. Sanctions related to the transport sector (Articles 15, 16, 17 and 18 of
> Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 3 6 a n d 37 of Council
> Regulation (EU) No 267/2012); and
> 3 For the purposes of this Annex, the term "associated services" means any service – including
> technical assistance, training, insurance, re-insurance, brokering, transportation or financial service –
> necessary and ordinarily incident to the underlying activity for which sanctions have been lifted
> pursuant to this JCPOA.
> 
> 3
> 1.3.3. Sanctions on associated services for each of the categories above (see
> the references above).
> 1.4. Gold, other precious metals, banknotes and coinage
> 1.4.1. Sanctions on gold, precious metals and diamonds, banknotes and
> coinage (Articles 4c and 4d of Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP;
> Articles 15 and 16, and Annex VII of Council Regulation (EU) No
> 267/2012); and
> 1.4.2. Sanctions on associated services for each of the categories above (see
> the references above).
> 1.5. Nuclear proliferation-related measures
> 1.5.1. Sanctions related to proliferation-sensitive nuclear activities (goods
> and technology, investment and specialised training) (Articles 1(1) (a),
> (b), (d), (e), (2), (3) and (4), 2, 3, 5, 14 and 21 of Council Decision
> 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 17(1) and (2)(a), 18, 19 and
> 22, and Annexes I, II and III of Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012);
> and
> 1.5.2. Sanctions on associated services for the category above (see the
> references above).
> 1.6. Metals
> 1.6.1. Sanctions on metals (Articles 4e and 4f of Council Decision
> 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 15a, 15b and 15c, and Annex VIIB of Council
> Regulation (EU) No 267/2012); and
> 1.6.2. Sanctions on associated services for the category above (see the
> references above).
> 1.7. Software
> 1.7.1. Sanctions on software (Articles 4i and 4j of Council Decision
> 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 10d, 10e and 10f, and Annex VIIA of Council
> Regulation (EU) No 267/2012); and
> 1.7.2. Sanctions on associated services for the category above (see the
> references above).
> 1.8. Arms
> 
> 4
> 1.8.1. Sanctions on arms (Articles 1(1)(c), (3) and (4), and 3 of Council
> Decision 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 5(1)(a) and (c), 17(1) and (2)(a),
> and 19 of Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012); and
> 1.8.2. Sanctions on associated services for the category above (see the
> references above).
> 1.9. Listing of persons, entities and bodies (asset freeze and visa ban)
> 1.9.1. Asset freeze and visa ban measures applicable to:
> 1.9.1.1. listed Iranian banks and financial institutions, including the
> Central Bank of Iran;
> 1.9.1.2. listed persons, entities and bodies related to the oil, gas and
> petrochemical sectors;
> 1.9.1.3. listed persons, entities and bodies related to shipping,
> shipbuilding and transport;
> 1.9.1.4. other listed persons, entities and bodies not related to
> proliferation-sensitive nuclear-, arms- and ballistic missile-
> related activities;
> 1.9.1.5. listed persons, entities and bodies related to proliferation-
> sensitive nuclear-, arms- and ballistic missile-related
> activities; and
> 1.9.1.6. entities and individuals listed by the UN Security Council,
> as set out in Attachment 1, part I to this Annex for categories 1.9.1.1-
> 1.9.1.4, Attachment 2, part I to this Annex for category 1.9.1.5, and Parts
> II of Attachments 1 and 2 to this Annex for category 1.9.1.6 (Articles 19
> and 20, and Annexes I and II to Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP;
> Articles 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 28a, 28b and 29, and Annexes V I I I a n d
> IX to Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012).
> 1.10. Other provisions
> 1.10.1. The commitment in Section 1 covers all remaining provisions of Council
> Decision 2010/413/CFSP and Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012
> not specified above.
> 1.10.1.1. Definitions (Article 1 of Council Regulation (EU) No 267/2012); and
> 1.10.1.2. General and final provisions (Articles 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 26a, 27 and
> 28 of Council Decision 2010/413/CFSP; Articles 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43,
> 43a, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 and 51, and Annex X of Council
> Regulation (EU) No 267/2012).
> 
> 5
> 2. The EU represents that the provisions listed in Section 1 above constitute
> the full and complete list of all EU nuclear-related sanctions or restrictive
> measures. These sanctions or restrictive measures will be lifted in
> accordance with Annex V.





> 3. Effects of the lifting of EU economic and financial sanctions
> 3.1. As a result of the lifting of sanctions specified in Section 1 above, the
> following activities, including associated services, will be allowed,
> beginning on implementation day, in accordance with this JCPOA and
> provided that such activities are otherwise consistent with EU and EU
> Member States’ laws and regulations in effect:4
> 3.2. Financial, banking and insurance measures (See Sections 1.1.1 to
> 1.1.8)
> 3.2.1. Transfers of funds between EU persons, entities or bodies, including EU
> financial and credit institutions, and Iranian persons, entities or bodies,
> including Iranian financial and credit institutions, without the
> requirement for authorisation or notification;
> 3.2.2. Opening of new branches, subsidiaries or representative offices of
> Iranian banks in the territories of EU Member States; and the
> establishment of new joint ventures, or the taking of an ownership
> interest or the establishment of new correspondent banking
> relationships by Iranian banks with EU banks; and opening by EU
> persons, including EU financial and credit institutions, of representative
> offices, subsidiaries, joint ventures or bank accounts in Iran;
> 3.2.3. Provision of insurance or reinsurance to Iran or the Government of
> Iran, an Iranian legal person, entity or body, or a natural person or a
> legal person, entity or body acting on their behalf or at their direction;
> 3.2.4. Supply of specialised financial messaging services to any Iranian
> natural or legal persons, entities or bodies, including those listed in
> Attachment 1 to this Annex;
> 3.2.5. Entering into commitments by EU Member States to provide financial
> support for trade with Iran, including the granting of export credits,
> guarantees or insurance; and into commitments for grants, financial
> assistance and concessional loans to the Government of Iran; and
> 4 Unless specifically provided otherwise, the sanctions lifting described in this Section does not apply
> to transactions that involve persons still subject to restrictive measures and is without prejudice to
> sanctions that may apply under legal provisions other than those referred to in Section 1. Nothing in
> this JCPOA reflects a change in Iran's position on EU sanctions.
> 
> 6
> 3.2.6. Sale or purchase of public or public-guaranteed bonds to and from Iran,
> the Government of Iran, the Central Bank of Iran, or Iranian banks and
> financial institutions or persons acting on their behalf.
> 3.3. Oil, gas and petrochemical sectors (See Sections 1.2.1 to 1.2.5)
> 3.3.1. Import, purchase, swap or transport of Iranian crude oil and petroleum
> products, natural gas or petrochemical products and related financing;
> 3.3.2. Sale, supply, transfer or export of equipment or technology, technical
> assistance, including training, used in the sectors of the oil, gas and
> petrochemical industries in Iran covering exploration, production and
> refining of oil and natural gas, including liquefaction of natural gas, to
> any Iranian person, in or outside Iran, or for use in Iran; and
> 3.3.3. Granting of any financial loan or credit to, the acquisition or extension
> of a participation in, and the creation of any joint venture with, any
> Iranian person that is engaged in the oil, gas and petrochemical sectors
> in Iran or outside Iran.
> 3.4. Shipping, shipbuilding and transport sectors (See Sections 1.3.1 to
> 1.3.3)
> 3.4.1. Sale, supply, transfer or export of naval equipment and technology for
> ship building, maintenance or refit, to Iran or to any Iranian persons
> engaged in this sector; the design, construction or the participation in
> the design or construction of cargo vessels and oil tankers for Iran or
> for Iranian persons; the provision of vessels designed or used for the
> transport or storage of oil and petrochemical products to Iranian
> persons, entities or bodies; and the provision of flagging and
> classification services, including those pertaining to technical
> specification, registration and identification numbers of any kind, to
> Iranian oil tankers and cargo vessels;
> 3.4.2. Access to the airports under the jurisdiction of EU Member States of all
> cargo flights operated by Iranian carriers or originating from Iran;
> 3.4.3. Cessation of inspection, seizure and disposal by EU Member States of
> cargoes to and from Iran in their territories with regard to items which
> are no longer prohibited; and
> 3.4.4. Provision of bunkering or ship supply services, or any other servicing of
> vessels, to Iranian-owned or Iranian-contracted vessels not carrying
> prohibited items; and the provision of fuel, engineering and
> 
> 7
> maintenance services to Iranian cargo aircraft not carrying prohibited
> items.
> 3.5. Gold, other precious metals, banknotes and coinage (See Sections
> 1.4.1 to 1.4.2)
> 3.5.1. Sale, supply, purchase, export, transfer or transport of gold and
> precious metals as well as diamonds, and provision of related
> brokering, financing and security services, to, from or for the
> Government of Iran, its public bodies, corporations and agencies, or the
> Central Bank of Iran; and
> 3.5.2. Delivery of newly printed or minted or unissued Iranian denominated
> banknotes and coinage to, or for the benefit of the Central Bank of Iran.
> 3.6. Metals (See Sections 1.6.1 to 1.6.2)
> 3.6.1. Sale, supply, transfer or export of graphite and raw or semi-finished
> metals, such as aluminum and steel to any Iranian person, entity or
> body or for use in Iran, in connection with activities consistent with this
> JCPOA.
> 3.7. Software (See Sections 1.7.1 to 1.7.2)
> 3.7.1. Sale, supply, transfer or export of software for integrating industrial
> processes, including updates, to any Iranian person, entity or body, or
> for use in Iran, in connection with activities consistent with this JCPOA,
> 3.8. Listing of persons, entities and bodies (asset freeze and visa ban)
> (See Section 1.9.1)
> 3.8.1. As a result of delisting as specified in this Annex, releasing of all funds
> and economic resources which belong to, and making available funds or
> economic resources to, the persons, entities and bodies, including
> Iranian banks and financial institutions, the Central Bank of Iran, listed
> in Attachment 1 to this Annex; and
> 3.8.2. As a result of delisting as specified in this Annex, entry into, or transit
> through the territories of EU Member States of individuals listed in
> Attachment 1 to this Annex.



those are EU duty that only partially happened till USA left the deal after it they didn't happen after usa left they told us to stay in deal and they use their blocking mechanism to neutralize USA sanction . they didn't do that





EU Moves to Block U.S. Iran Sanctions - ProQuest


Explore millions of resources from scholarly journals, books, newspapers, videos and more, on the ProQuest Platform.




www.proquest.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576534054609920000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576534232671064065


RoadAmerica said:


> I’ve previously pointed out over 2/3 of active duty are white so you’re fake news



The US is 55% white. No way 2 thirds of US military personnel is white. More like a quarter to a third.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Han Patriot said:


> NATO has no say in this shit okay.. It's an internal Russosphere problem. Stop poking and starting WW3.


as i see they are saying many thing


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576535672101695489


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576560042630733824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576560125904445442

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> *60,000 Russian Soldiers dead and 2,300 destroyed tanks so far ....*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine claims over 60,000 Russian soldiers killed and Lyman 'cleared'
> 
> 
> Of the 60,110 Russian soldiers that have died fighting, according to the Ukrainian armed forces, 500 were lost in the last 24 hours, mostly in the areas of Kramatorsk and Bakhmut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And ... winter has yet to "come".... with destroyed ammo dumps and food stocks/supplies and poor russian logistics - Russia's ability to simply occupy land it has currently is massively comprimised - let a lone fight a contested war.. you are now looking at the start of the total collapse of the Russian presence in large swathes of occupied Ukraine.
> 
> HIMARs has totally destroyed the offensive capability of the Russian Army and also destroyed their ability to occupy those lands in winter conditions ...
> 
> Russia had to "wrap" this up before winter - and it has failed .. and in doing so - now - the entire special operation is due to collapse. I dont think Russia expecting to fight a war in winter and i really dont think they prepared for one, nor can they now prepare for it..



60,000 is a lot but for a country of 151 million it's nothing. Also, Ukrainians have suffered just as many dead if not more. In terms of population advantage Russia gets better of Ukraine over time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576540905108312064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576542714497101827

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576556114077884418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576556427162050561

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576550874930823168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576529798737719296


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576547821356199936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576540802955689984


----------



## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> Says the American poodle. You were also winning in Afghanistan not so long ago until you were not. Give it up.


Why every time someone states a fact you don’t agree with you resort to Afghanistan?
This is a Ukraine thread and they are on the offensive, anyone that can’t see that is blind, in denial or both

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576534278535380992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576534815419297792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576534877117505536


----------



## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> Short-lived celebrations. You guys were also winning in Afghanistan not so long ago. We all know how that turned out.


Ah yes another but but but Afghanistan 😂

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> we are not talking about strategic mindset of cold war , we are dealing with one question.
> Did West Germany had any border dispute with any country at 1955 when it joined NATO ? I'm not aware of any.


The world is not a court of law and I am not sure what the logic or applicability of your question is given the title of the threat.

W. Germany saw what its East Germany peer was going through. The wall had not yet gone up but the communism squeeze was evident. 

Regardless, invasions are not based on legal precedence, court/legal or moral authority. They happen because the occupying / attacking side "IT" believes it has a right to do so, and if it can militarily prevail, than land goes to the attacker.

This is how the Ottoman's expanded, and Berbers got Spain. Russia used a similar justification, but it hasn't delivered because the military advisers were trying to keep the bad news out. And so we find ourselves here.

Russia has no more right on Ukraine than Ottoman's had over Hijaz. They just happen to win and then occupy.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 60,000 is a lot but for a country of 151 million it's nothing. Also, Ukrainians have suffered just as many dead if not more. In terms of population advantage Russia gets better of Ukraine over time.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576540905108312064
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576542714497101827
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576556114077884418
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576556427162050561


They don’t have proper boots. They wear street shoes? different colors? Crazy. No wonder, they steal shoes. Ukraine soldiers are better equipped.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Russia has no more right on Ukraine than Ottoman's had over Hijaz. They just happen to win and then occupy.



Why not? If countries can split. As South Sudan from Sudan, the US from Britain, Kosovo from Serbia, then countries can merge. We don't need more and more countries. We don't need thousands and thousands of countries.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> what link , they made a deal , after USA pulled out , they break the deal.
> what you think JCPOA was about.
> what was the role of Europe in it .
> there is a hundred+ page thread about it in Iranian section . you can read it, wonder why you guys cant do a small search and everything must be fed to you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> those are EU duty that only partially happened till USA left the deal after it they didn't happen after usa left they told us to stay in deal and they use their blocking mechanism to neutralize USA sanction . they didn't do that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU Moves to Block U.S. Iran Sanctions - ProQuest
> 
> 
> Explore millions of resources from scholarly journals, books, newspapers, videos and more, on the ProQuest Platform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.proquest.com


So you don’t know, and cannot pinpoint any specific clause…


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> So you don’t know, and cannot pinpoint any specific clause…


there is no need , you failed on all clauses


----------



## Viet

Next stop Luhansk 







Ukraine auf dem Vormarsch: Soldaten fahren einen Panzer auf dem Weg nach Sewersk in der Region Donezk 
© Inna Varenytsia / AP / DPA

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Next stop Luhansk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine auf dem Vormarsch: Soldaten fahren einen Panzer auf dem Weg nach Sewersk in der Region Donezk
> © Inna Varenytsia / AP / DPA



Not gonna happen. The city is too big and too close to Russian border. Even in 2014 during ATO anti terror operation they were not able to take Luhansk.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576556952959995905

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Putin submitted to the State Duma bills on the admission of four new territories in the Russian Federation - Oops Top


A package of federal constitutional laws on the reunification of the DPR, LPR, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions with Russia was submitted to the State Duma by




oopstop.com

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## Viet

Germany confirms Ukraine will receive 16x Slovakia zuzana-2 155mm howitzer.















Deutschland, Dänemark und Norwegen wollen Ukraine mit weiteren Haubitzen unterstützen


Deutschland will zusammen mit Dänemark & Norwegen weitere schwere Waffen an die Ukraine liefern. Gemeinsam soll 16 Haubitzen beschafft werden.




www.businessinsider.de

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## retaxis

Viet said:


> Next stop Luhansk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine auf dem Vormarsch: Soldaten fahren einen Panzer auf dem Weg nach Sewersk in der Region Donezk
> © Inna Varenytsia / AP / DPA


this your first time following a war? let me give you some advice, wars go back and forward in momentum so its not even worth following most of the time. One side gets resupplied, makes gains and then the other side gets new toys and pushes back. Goes back and forward for years especially if no one is fully mobilised and throwing all their chips on the table.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576577055793491968


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576577415232438272


----------



## Viet

retaxis said:


> this your first time following a war? let me give you some advice, wars go back and forward in momentum so its not even worth following most of the time. One side gets resupplied, makes gains and then the other side gets new toys and pushes back. Goes back and forward for years especially if no one is fully mobilised and throwing all their chips on the table.


I see you are more relax you are in Australia far away from this war. Here in Germany people are very nervous. Less about inflation. More about, once Ukraine is taken, russian hooligans and rapists will knock door here.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> I see you are more relax you are in Australia far away from this war. Here in Germany people are very nervous. Less about inflation. More about, once Ukraine is taken, russian hooligans and rapists will knock door here.



Germany is far from Ukraine and is NATO member. Ukraine matters little in German people's lives. They say. It's not my country. It has nothing to do with me. Ukraine is not EU. Ukraine is not NATO. It's just a far off land in the eyes of the Germans which has nothing to do with them. To Germans, Russia is a more valuable market for consumer products considering Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine.

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## retaxis

Viet said:


> I see you are more relax you are in Australia far away from this war. Here in Germany people are very nervous. Less about inflation. More about, once Ukraine is taken, russian hooligans and rapists will knock door here.


Germans got their weiners cut off by Russians in WW2 so they are barely men these days of course they are afraid. Russia and Ukraine is fighting over a small region populated by Russian people not Ukrainian people. Russia isn't going for the whole country either its just trying to absorb Russian speaking people back into Russia. You should think for yourself instead of having victim coloniser inferiority complex where you have to worship what the white westerners tell you to worship. Don't be an Indian.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

retaxis said:


> Germans got their weiners cut off by Russians in WW2 so they are barely men these days of course they are afraid. Russia and Ukraine is fighting over a small region populated by Russian people not Ukrainian people. Russia isn't going for the whole country either its just trying to absorb Russian speaking people back into Russia. You should think for yourself instead of having victim coloniser inferiority complex where you have to worship what the white westerners tell you to worship. Don't be an Indian.



No point talking sense into him. He is a Vietnamese German wannabe.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576580479113138177


----------



## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> These European suckers are licking their wounds. The whole world is witnessing how Western hegemony is being challanged in broad daylight. One country Russia is pouncing on them all.
> 
> We were promised that Russian economy would be annihilated and Russia won't be able to fight within days. Here we are. The tables have been turned. Russia is turning off the gas tap and we can see the effects in many European capitals. Inflation is getting higher. The European economic crisis instigated by the war in Ukraine is real. It was supposed to be a one-way street.


This is what the losing side has to go on: hope for the future and misery of the winner in their mind. This is exactly what Putin's advisers are counting on that led them to this place where they have to stage fake referendum and a parade while getting another city surrendered.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> there is no need , you failed on all clauses


Just another way of producing hot air.


----------



## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> They just lost the entire Kharkiv Oblast and now Lyman. Ukraine has all the momentum and initiative. Stop lying to yourself.


But Lyman isnt THAT important or strategic actually, Bakhmut is far more important, and Ukraine is about to lose it...just rememvber that Ukraine war starts the same was Afghanistan war starts - feeling good, by the time this war goes into next year, US and west will dump Ukraine, because it will be a depressing, unfixable, LIABILITY, period. screenshot this.


----------



## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> Your predictions are hot air. Everyone knows that I predicted trouble for European economies when the Ukraine war started. All the Europhiles on this forum thought that Russian economy would be eliminated within weeks. That didn't happen and the war is raging on. The Europeans are now readying for a cold winter.
> 
> Russia has annexed important Ukrainian border areas and the Western powers have just looked on angrily. That is a nutshell the bitter truth.


Pain continum is relative: it doesn't take a genius to predict that.
Europe is closer together, may have to drop their home temps by 5 degrees, pay more energy, and beer. They are still moving as an economy (slower). Restaurants are full, airports are full, Eurorail running at capacity. Oh and nobody from NATO is dying and citizens not running to enemy. That may sound selfish but its a fact

Instead, Russia is losing its army, its prestige, 100s of thousands leaving, its world suppliers now pariah third rate nations like N. Korea.

Dealing with a cold winter vs. what Russians have to deal with was in every European leader's calculus. What are you going to predict when its March?

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

RoadAmerica said:


> I’ve previously pointed out over 2/3 of active duty are white so you’re fake news



After OnlyBlackLivesMatter, Entiffa, Defund the police movements and forcing service people to take untested vacccines, White people are no longer interested in joining any services.


----------



## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576550874930823168
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576529798737719296



Ukrainian counter battery fire is incoming with in 2-3 mins using networked drones. Russian equipment and tactics have no chance

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## 925boy

f


Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> White people are no longer interested in joining any services.


and US might soon have to fight Russia and CHina at the same time? smfh


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## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> But Lyman isnt THAT important or strategic actually, Bakhmut is far more important, and Ukraine is about to lose it...just rememvber that Ukraine war starts the same was Afghanistan war starts - feeling good, by the time this war goes into next year, US and west will dump Ukraine, because it will be a depressing, unfixable, LIABILITY, period. screenshot this.



Kherson is the key, if Ukraine can take Kherson then it will be a rout.


----------



## MeFishToo

Viet said:


> I see you are more relax you are in Australia far away from this war. Here in Germany people are very nervous. Less about inflation. More about, once Ukraine is taken, russian hooligans and rapists will knock door here.


No need to be nervous. Germany is no conventional match for Russia, especially if Germany actually fulfill its stated intentions to boost its armed forces. All you have to do is provide the ukrainians with some 21th century weapons (including manuals writen in ukrainian), and let them take care of the russians.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576565672838303745

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

925boy said:


> f
> 
> and US might soon have to fight Russia and CHina at the same time? smfh




The tragedy for Chinese is you will have non-white Asian people like @jhungary and @gambit fighting the Chinese while White people sit back and enjoy the show.

Ukraine is sample where Slavic are fighting on both sides while the Anglo-saxons are having fun.


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## 925boy

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukraine is sample where Slavic are fighting on both sides while the Anglo-saxons are having fun.


but you are ignoring the truth that there IS a divide between the Ukranian and Russian Slavics- they dont agree on the direction and policy of western-leaning and loving Ukrainian Slavics, and obviously Russian slavics saw Ukrainian slavic moves into NATO as a threat to their safety and future, so you cant oversimplify their identity and say no serious fracture exists there, because it does.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

925boy said:


> but you are ignoring the truth that there IS a divide between the Ukranian and Russian Slavics- they dont agree on the direction and policy of western-leaning and loving Ukrainian Slavics, and obviously Russian slavics saw Ukrainian slavic moves into NATO as a threat to their safety and future, so you cant oversimplify their identity and say no serious fracture exists there, because it does.



Ukraine is a mixed race state.

Western Ukrainians are German Aryan Nazis who are followers of Banderas while South & Eastern Ukrainians are Slavics.

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## aziqbal

the real question is can Ukraine take Severodonetsk and then Lysychansk?

both cities fell very fast to Russia and then Russia rolled down to the heavily fortified line at Bakhmut-Soledar-Seversk and they never really managed to break through it

if Severodonetsk/Lysychansk fall the Russians at the defensive line will be cut off and then entire Russian front in the East all collapse

Russia either needs to find a solution to the HIMARS or just pack this war up

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## F-22Raptor

925boy said:


> But Lyman isnt THAT important or strategic actually, Bakhmut is far more important, and Ukraine is about to lose it...just rememvber that Ukraine war starts the same was Afghanistan war starts - feeling good, by the time this war goes into next year, US and west will dump Ukraine, because it will be a depressing, unfixable, LIABILITY, period. screenshot this.



Ukraine has all of the momentum and initiative. It’s all downhill for Russia from here. Russia has lost strategically and Ukraine is liberating its lands.

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## Wood

Interesting perspectives from people in Russia. They seem to believe that nuclear war is the only way for Russia to win.

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## PakFactor

Wood said:


> Interesting perspectives from people in Russia. They seem to agree that nuclear war is the only way for Russia to win.



I'm all for nuke war in Europe.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> I will bet Russia will win in the end. Definition of victory is all 4 territories will remain Russian and Ukraine will be in ruins. If I lose I will be gone from this thread forever. What say you!?


Had Putin aligned with your bet, he would have a much more focused ambition to take the 4 territories. Publicly stated that, and also geared his military operation accordingly. 

Instead he denied up until January he had any plans, went all the way to Kiev, got butt kicked, and is redefining his goals to the 4 regions as a face saving measure. Not one about replacing the Nazi regime next door. Not sure why you would take a mult100 single file convoy to Kiev if all he wanted were the 4 regions


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakFactor said:


> I'm all for nuke war in Europe.



European men are the most aggressive and war mongering men on the planet. Nuke war in Europe is only a matter of when, not if.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Why not? If countries can split. As South Sudan from Sudan, the US from Britain, Kosovo from Serbia, then countries can merge. We don't need more and more countries. We don't need thousands and thousands of countries.


Its not a moral argument: you have to be able to deliver on the ambition. Russians failed (and thats why this thread is active). Ottomans delivered on the ambition and gained more than what they lost.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ukraine is massing up to 12K troops north and west of Kremina

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Its not a moral argument: you have to be able to deliver on the ambition. Russians failed (and thats why this thread is active). Ottomans delivered on the ambition and gained more than what they lost.



Ottoman empire was destroyed in WW1. German empire was destroyed in WW1. British and French empires were destroyed in WW2.



F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine is massing up to 12K troops north and west of Kremina



Too many men in the army and women will have no children. Birth rate will be practically 0. 10 years from now war is still going on and Ukraine population fall to less than 20 million.


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> European men are the most aggressive and war mongering men on the planet. Nuke war in Europe is only a matter of when, not if.


last 200 year history would support that. But at least they killed over other people. Russians and Chinese excelled in killing their own. Stalin deliberately, and Chinese out of famine because of failed communist agriculture system in the 60s.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ottoman empire was destroyed in WW1. German empire was destroyed in WW1. British and French empires were destroyed in WW2.
> 
> 
> 
> Too many men in the army and women will have no children. Birth rate will be practically 0. 10 years from now war is still going on and Ukraine population fall to less than 20 million.


Describing Russia and China? Yes you are. If your only hope is that Russia wins because of fertility ratio than you are in for a disappointment, for the other two countries you love. Its a global trend



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Germany is far from Ukraine and is NATO member. Ukraine matters little in German people's lives. They say. It's not my country. It has nothing to do with me. Ukraine is not EU. Ukraine is not NATO. It's just a far off land in the eyes of the Germans which has nothing to do with them. To Germans, Russia is a more valuable market for consumer products considering Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine.


Idiotic remarks based on some useless data you have: you are neither in Germany , nor are you a politician in Germany. You have no basis for your information: your side is losing currently, both in terms of world opinion, and its own people leaving. So best you have is the persona you embrace to be spokesperson for China/Germany to keep a shred of dignity. ANd its going fast as you are a -57

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine has all of the momentum and initiative. It’s all downhill for Russia from here. Russia has lost strategically and Ukraine is liberating its lands.



It is already starting to snowball. Lyman been much easier by latest accounts than I thought, as if Russian generals have given up on the inside, despite at least a regiment worth of forces there, which could've resisted for a while.

What has very apparently happened is that thousands of RU soldiers have dressed in civilian clothing, and escaped through woods under the cover of night. What the we seen later, captured on camera was just what was left.

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## aviator_fan

retaxis said:


> this your first time following a war? let me give you some advice, wars go back and forward in momentum so its not even worth following most of the time. One side gets resupplied, makes gains and then the other side gets new toys and pushes back. Goes back and forward for years especially if no one is fully mobilised and throwing all their chips on the table.


You are right. But Russia has been losing momentum since withdrawing from outside of Kiev and its situation has only worsened. Best hope is to reverse the last month's gains against Ukraine, but its still way far from the stated aim of this 'special' operation and install friendly Govt which has been what every colonial expansionist does and Soviets did in Hungary and Afghanistan

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## yuba

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ottoman empire was destroyed in WW1. German empire was destroyed in WW1. British and French empires were destroyed in WW2.
> 
> 
> 
> Too many men in the army and women will have no children. Birth rate will be practically 0. 10 years from now war is still going on and Ukraine population fall to less than 20 million.


You want to see Russian birth rate but after victory, the Ukrainian men will return home to their wives and partners drink loads of vodka and a baby boom will happen


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> It is already starting to snowball. Lyman been much easier by latest accounts than I thought, as if Russian generals have given up on the inside, despite at least a regiment worth of forces there, which could've resisted for a while.
> 
> What has very apparently happened is that thousands of RU soldiers have dressed in civilian clothing, and escaped through woods under the cover of night. What the we seen later, captured on camera was just what was left.



And it seems the Ukrainians have already reached the P66 highway and are massing troops around Kremina.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Tuesday next week Russia officially annex part of Ukraine as congress ratifies the treaty. At that time, Russian army can legally be deployed to those areas in accordance with Russian law. We are looking at half a million men. War is about to start.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576595723797245952

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576583171352645634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576576982871347202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576595024271196160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576591138144014336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576591144905248768


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576601069089525760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576605900537679872


----------



## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> Why every time someone states a fact you don’t agree with you resort to Afghanistan?
> This is a Ukraine thread and they are on the offensive, anyone that can’t see that is blind, in denial or both



You lost in Afghanistan. You are losing in Ukraine. Just own up.



yuba said:


> You want to see Russian birth rate but after victory, the Ukrainian men will return home to their wives and partners drink loads of vodka and a baby boom will happen



Is that one of your fantasies because that won't happen.



F-22Raptor said:


> And it seems the Ukrainians have already reached the P66 highway and are massing troops around Kremina.



Yes. It is all going according to plan...

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576539451177648129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576464543231840256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576454797355802624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575912105043279883

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## Dalit

aviator_fan said:


> Pain continum is relative: it doesn't take a genius to predict that.
> Europe is closer together, may have to drop their home temps by 5 degrees, pay more energy, and beer. They are still moving as an economy (slower). Restaurants are full, airports are full, Eurorail running at capacity. Oh and nobody from NATO is dying and citizens not running to enemy. That may sound selfish but its a fact
> 
> Instead, Russia is losing its army, its prestige, 100s of thousands leaving, its world suppliers now pariah third rate nations like N. Korea.
> 
> Dealing with a cold winter vs. what Russians have to deal with was in every European leader's calculus. What are you going to predict when its March?



Russia is pounding Ukraine and freeing it from Europhiles. Ukrainian citizens are the real victims. Ukrainian women are being exploited in European capitals by the same peoples and nations that are supposed to provide refuge. Ukrainian citizens are being forced to flee. For what? For fighting America's war against Russia.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576606152473079808

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## kingQamaR

Dalit said:


> You lost in Afghanistan. You are losing in Ukraine. Just own up.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that one of your fantasies because that won't happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. It is all going according to plan...



So you reckon , all these little wins are good but on a macro scale Putins special military operation is working . He is gradually meeting his objective. Before we realise it, there will be no country called Ukraine. The smartest decision would have been the west speeding Ukraines process to join nato. So we see if putin dares continue his invasion. For now you believe Putin seems May be winning!


----------



## Dalit

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576606152473079808



The time has come to confront you. You once very cold bloodedly said that it is business. You remember exactly what I am referring to. Don't pretend for one bit. Don't evade my question or I will be forced to reveal the incident. How does Ukrainian business feel today? I just wish I could get inside your head and find out how you are feeling. I have seen the torment you have gone through since the beginning of the Ukraine war. I have read your posts and I have analyzed you very carefully. You are in a state of mourning. You have been unlike yourself. Normally chest forward and confident. Now sad and angry. This topic has become your mainstay on the forum. Don't you for a moment think I haven't been observing you. The chickens have come home to roost, haven't they? The business comment you made years ago should haunt you now.

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## Vergennes




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## Dalit

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 884206



Don't ignore me. You are sinner of epic proportions. I won't ever forget your words. Insensitive and henious. Some might have short memories, but I don't. It feels like a victory today watching you so helpless. Just look at you. Pitiful. Copying and pasting Tweets from here and there. If I could just get one moment to crawl inside your head. I would give something for that. How does it feel to be on the receiving side?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576524606441037824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576509334196195329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576242515635642369


----------



## Ali_Baba

Paul2 said:


> It is already starting to snowball. Lyman been much easier by latest accounts than I thought, as if Russian generals have given up on the inside, despite at least a regiment worth of forces there, which could've resisted for a while.
> 
> What has very apparently happened is that thousands of RU soldiers have dressed in civilian clothing, and escaped through woods under the cover of night. What the we seen later, captured on camera was just what was left.



They would have also left lots of equipment behind and it would further make Russias problems harder as these soldiers would still need to be re-equipped..

Russia's problems are multiplying with each passing day..

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## Dalit

kingQamaR said:


> So you reckon , all these little wins are good but on a macro scale Putins special military operation is working . He is gradually meeting his objective. Before we realise it, there will be no country called Ukraine. The smartest decision would have been the west speeding Ukraines process to join nato. So we see if putin dares continue his invasion. For now you believe Putin seems May be winning!



The Europeans and Americans will never dare to jump into the conflict. When push comes to shove expect a nuclear confrontation. Yes, Putin is taking his time and not opting for brute force. Russia is going to capture all important regions of Ukraine little by little. Anything less means failure. Putin knows that there is no return after starting the Ukraine war. Europeans and Americans can live with a dismembered Ukraine. Russia won't tolerate any failure in capturing all important regions. The cost would be too heavy at this moment.

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576534054609920000
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576534232671064065
> 
> 
> The US is 55% white. No way 2 thirds of US military personnel is white. More like a quarter to a third.


Look it up, sorry to rain on your parade but it’s yet another fact.


----------



## Vergennes

Russians earlier planted sea mines in the Kherson region and destroyed them but claimed it was a Ukrainian ammo depot destroyed by a tank shell @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen even posted the video.

LMAO Russians are full of sh/t it's amazing.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576510114823278592

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576490899819089920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576317498693414912

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576539355593572353


----------



## alimobin memon

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576539355593572353


Why does this video fire and smoke look fake ? 🤔


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

MeFishToo said:


> Since you are so much against countries being a puppy, how come you want Ukraine to be a russian puppy?
> 
> Im not sure how Biden supporting Ukraine relates to the fact that Putin doesnt care about people. Is that just deflection? Its obvious Putin is using people _speaking_ russian as pretext to influence and annex foreign territory in order to satisfy his imperial ambitions. He couldnt care less about the people residing in those territories.


I suggest You consider ”Tribal Thinking” as an explanation.
Right or Wrong is unimportant.
As ”The West” is by definition the enemy, anything that is the opposite of the opinion of ”The West” is the opinion taken By a ”Tribal Thinker”.
Consistency in argumentation is on the whole unimportant.
It is also useless to argue with someone that approach an issue from a tribal point of view, which is why this Chinese is on ignore.


----------



## MultaniGuy

As Pakistanis why should we care about Ukraine?

This is not our problem.

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Said it time and again, Western Ukraine (where they border Poland) is out of range of Russia. They can't interdict the Border between Ukraine and Poland because it is 500 miles to the nearest Russian Airbase in either Transnistria or Belarus. without advance electronic jamming and stealth technology, any Air interdiction along the entire line of Polish border will be more or less suicide, you can't cover 500 miles open sky with legacy fighter AA will make mincemeat out of them. The only way they can touch the Polish border is to use long range cruise or ballistic missile, which is cost Prohibitive to do so.
> 
> Also, any miscalculation from the Russia side, like a bomb dropped into Poland or a missile fired in Polish direction or even accidental aerial intrusion will risk bringing NATO into the fight.


Russia has worst case planning for war with NATO. It would be interesting to know what the scope of that war would be and mean.


----------



## Soldier35

The strikes of Russian missiles on the positions of the Ukrainian army were filmed by one of the servicemen of Ukraine, the place where the Russian missile strike was carried out is not reported.






During the combat operation of the Russian Pantsir air defense system in Ukraine, one of the missiles flew right over the heads of the soldiers. Apparently the target for which the Pantsir air defense system worked fell too low.






The crew of a Ka-52 helicopter fired an Izdeliye-305E missile into a BMP-2 of the Ukrainian army. Russian 305E missile can be used at a distance of up to 14.5 kilometers


----------



## khansaheeb

You can tell things aren't going well for Ukraine as NATO call in the Pope:-









The pope makes his strongest plea yet for an end to Russia's war on Ukraine


Pope Francis asked Russian President Vladimir Putin to "stop this spiral of violence and death" and called on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to "be open" to serious peace proposals.




www.npr.org





The pope makes his strongest plea yet for an end to Russia's war on Ukraine​
*Facebook*
*Twitter*
*Flipboard*
*Email*
Updated October 2, 202210:17 AM ET 
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS






Pope Francis waves during the Angelus noon prayer from the window of his studio overlooking St. Peter's Square, at the Vatican on Sunday. He has appealed to Russian President Vladimir Putin, imploring him to "stop this spiral of violence and death" in Ukraine. The pontiff also called on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to "be open" to serious peace proposals.
Alessandra Tarantino/AP
VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis on Sunday appealed to Russian President Vladimir Putin, imploring him to "stop this spiral of violence and death" in Ukraine and denounced the "absurd" risk to humanity of catastrophic nuclear war as tensions escalate.
Francis uttered his strongest plea yet on the seventh-month war as he addressed the public in St. Peter's Square. It was the first time in public that he cited Putin's leadership.
The pontiff also called on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to "be open" to serious peace proposals. He exhorted the international community to "use all diplomatic instruments" to end this "huge tragedy" and "horror" of war.
"This terrible, inconceivable wound of humanity, instead of shrinking, continues to bleed even more, threatening to spread,'' Francis said.
"That humanity again finds itself before the threat of atomic war is absurd,'' the pontiff said. "What more has to happen, how much more blood has to flow" before the war ends? asked Francis.
The pope implored "the Russian Federation president, also for the love of his people, to stop this spiral of violence and death."


----------



## PakFactor

khansaheeb said:


> Russia has worst case planning for war with NATO. It would be interesting to know what the scope of that war would be and mean.



They have nothing but the nuclear option. Their armed forces are so degraded right now it's beyond belief.


----------



## khansaheeb

MultaniGuy said:


> As Pakistanis why should we care about Ukraine?
> 
> This is not our problem.


We should care about every war and learn from them.

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## PakFactor

khansaheeb said:


> We should care about every war and learn from them.



Just learn but not emotionally invest in it or feel other emotions for any nation.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> what link , they made a deal , after USA pulled out , they break the deal.
> what you think JCPOA was about.
> what was the role of Europe in it .
> there is a hundred+ page thread about it in Iranian section . you can read it, wonder why you guys cant do a small search and everything must be fed to you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> those are EU duty that only partially happened till USA left the deal after it they didn't happen after usa left they told us to stay in deal and they use their blocking mechanism to neutralize USA sanction . they didn't do that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU Moves to Block U.S. Iran Sanctions - ProQuest
> 
> 
> Explore millions of resources from scholarly journals, books, newspapers, videos and more, on the ProQuest Platform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.proquest.com


They did not promise to neutralize US sanctions, they promised to keep their committments, and again you make unspecific accusations, aka whining.


----------



## khansaheeb

PakFactor said:


> Just learn but not emotionally invest in it or feel other emotions for any nation.


Emotions is what differentiates us from the Kafirs

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## A.P. Richelieu

PakFactor said:


> I'm all for nuke war in Europe.


And You will be hit in the same war, regardless if you stay in the US or run back to Pakistan as both will be targetted in a nuclear war. That is my belief.
You should be careful what You wish for if You want to stay safe.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576606939123191808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576606948987846656


----------



## Dalit

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And You will be hit in the same war, regardless if you stay in the US or run back to Pakistan as both will be targetted in a nuclear war. That is my belief.
> You should be careful what You wish for if You want to stay safe.



You are getting a good taste of your own medicine. Russia is teaching you guys a lesson in humility.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> You are getting a good taste of your own medicine. Russia is teaching you guys a lesson in humility.



Russia is getting its a$$ kicked. 6,600 losses, losing territory, and getting humiliated. A reality check for you

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576636571658649605

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is getting its a$$ kicked. 6,600 losses, losing territory, and getting humiliated. A reality check for you



You don't understand; it's a white-on-white killing spree. We've been repeating that since this conflict began, it makes no difference how many Russians or Ukrainians were killed.

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## Vergennes



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## PakFactor

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And You will be hit in the same war, regardless if you stay in the US or run back to Pakistan as both will be targetted in a nuclear war. That is my belief.
> You should be careful what You wish for if You want to stay safe.



Worry about us later. First, try to settle this mess. Realistically, Russia wouldn't touch the US unless it's a last resort. So I'll try and settle the score with Europe first.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 884229



Seeing a lot of reports Ukrainians have broken through Russian lines up to 20km.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576643108166463488
Russians are panicking

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 884229



I belive Dudchane push was to make for a defensible flank for a further push.

You see on the map, it's located next to a large impassable marshland.

Also, it was an ideal point to push RU forces against.

I bet, few RU commanders did unknowingly retreat their units into marshes.


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is getting its a$$ kicked. 6,600 losses, losing territory, and getting humiliated. A reality check for you



You are on the losing side. As you were in Afghanistan.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576643108166463488
> Russians are panicking



LOL Yeah they are panicking because you posted a nonsensical Tweet.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> I belive Dudchane push was to make for a defensible flank for a further push.
> 
> You see on the map, it's located next to a large impassable marshland.
> 
> Also, it was an ideal point to push RU forces against.
> 
> I bet, few RU commanders did unknowingly retreat their units into marshes.



Strelkov has confirmed the breakthrough. He says the Ukrainians have over 100 AFVs and a full tank battalion in this area.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Russia has worst case planning for war with NATO. It would be interesting to know what the scope of that war would be and mean.


Well, considering how they executing the war in Ukraine, I don't know what Russia had planned for NATO, I don't think it will work.......Probably it will just speed up the Russian demise on the adventure.



925boy said:


> But Lyman isnt THAT important or strategic actually, Bakhmut is far more important, and Ukraine is about to lose it...just rememvber that Ukraine war starts the same was Afghanistan war starts - feeling good, by the time this war goes into next year, US and west will dump Ukraine, because it will be a depressing, unfixable, LIABILITY, period. screenshot this.


lol, how Lyman is not important? And Bakhmut. Can you name me some strategic and tactical value Bakhmut had and Lyman don't? I can probably name you 10 Lyman have and Bakhmut don't

And Bakhmut is not even close to falling. They tried it since July, and it's October, they aren't making any headway.

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## Ali_Baba

Ukrainian strikes Russian warehouse in 'huge' explosion as Putin's troops flee Donetsk​








Ukrainian strikes Russian warehouse in 'huge' explosion in Donetsk


A Russian ammunition depot blew up after a Ukrainian attack as Putin's forces pull out of the illegally annexed province of Donetsk.




www.express.co.uk


----------



## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> the real question is can Ukraine take Severodonetsk and then Lysychansk?
> 
> both cities fell very fast to Russia and then Russia rolled down to the heavily fortified line at Bakhmut-Soledar-Seversk and they never really managed to break through it
> 
> if Severodonetsk/Lysychansk fall the Russians at the defensive line will be cut off and then entire Russian front in the East all collapse
> 
> Russia either needs to find a solution to the HIMARS or just pack this war up


Depends on whether or not Ukraine take Kreminna and Svatove. Both town runs supply line into Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk, and if either or both towns felt. There is no way to supply Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk can hold. The problem rather is will Ukrainian take them? There is no strategic value for both town other than being one of the towns in Luhansk, Russia see it as the last town they need to take to complete Luhansk conquest. Ukraine don't see it so, they may simply by-pass them and attack Starbolisk instead and really try to crack Luhanksk city itself.

And current intel suggest Kreminna is going to fall in the next 72 to 108 hours, Ukrainian are already fighting in the outskirt of Kreminna, and Savtove can probably last a week or so, but Russian don't have enough troop to guard the entire line.







This is the OSINT Map on Kreminna-Lysychans front. Every Square with a X on top is a Brigade. and there are 10 Brigade stack in between Lyman and Kreminna at this moment. 10 Brigade = 40,000 men. 

Last intel Briefing I have access to claim Russia have 2 divisional strengths in the area or 5 regiment in total, 2 of them were just retreat from Lyman, so their loss is uncertain, and even if those 2 divisional strength are at full strength, you are talking about less than 25,000 men.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Just another way of producing hot air.


are you aware , its not me who must provide link on what you failed , you must provide us about what you manage to do .
tell us the benefit that iran get from the ones that it supposed to get from the deal.


----------



## 925boy

PakFactor said:


> They have nothing but the nuclear option.


based on what? your random azz opinion? lmao.


PakFactor said:


> Their armed forces are so degraded right now it's beyond belief.


if Russia's armed forces are so degraded then why does it have 800 aircraft parked close to Ukraine's territory at this moment? That doesnt sounded degraded to me, and that is just one aspect of Russia's military, but this also doesnt mean i am denying Russia has lost military equipment, but Russia being a top weapons producer also means that Russia can replenish stocks faster and more affordably (local production reduces costs vs importing @ with foreign currencies).

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## aziqbal

925boy said:


> based on what? your random azz opinion? lmao.
> 
> if Russia's armed forces are so degraded then why does it have 800 aircraft parked close to Ukraine's territory at this moment? That doesnt sounded degraded to me, and that is just one aspect of Russia's military, but this also doesnt mean i am denying Russia has lost military equipment, but Russia being a top weapons producer also means that Russia can replenish stocks faster and more affordably (local production reduces costs vs importing @ with foreign currencies).



I agree 

if Russian switches to full mobilisation they will make Su34 in the 100s 

one thing Russia has is huge reserve of resources in men + material, and can fight long wars with heavy casualties because they can stomach heavy losses 

the Russian industrial strength is unmatched, I always have the feeling of Operation Uranus, the massive Soviet Counter Attack which broke the back of the Wehrmacht in the Eastern front at Stalingrad

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## The SC




----------



## aziqbal

jhungary said:


> Depends on whether or not Ukraine take Kreminna and Svatove. Both town runs supply line into Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk, and if either or both towns felt. There is no way to supply Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk can hold. The problem rather is will Ukrainian take them? There is no strategic value for both town other than being one of the towns in Luhansk, Russia see it as the last town they need to take to complete Luhansk conquest. Ukraine don't see it so, they may simply by-pass them and attack Starbolisk instead and really try to crack Luhanksk city itself.
> 
> And current intel suggest Kreminna is going to fall in the next 72 to 108 hours, Ukrainian are already fighting in the outskirt of Kreminna, and Savtove can probably last a week or so, but Russian don't have enough troop to guard the entire line.
> 
> View attachment 884232
> 
> 
> This is the OSINT Map on Kreminna-Lysychans front. Every Square with a X on top is a Brigade. and there are 10 Brigade stack in between Lyman and Kreminna at this moment. 10 Brigade = 40,000 men.
> 
> Last intel Briefing I have access to claim Russia have 2 divisional strengths in the area or 5 regiment in total, 2 of them were just retreat from Lyman, so their loss is uncertain, and even if those 2 divisional strength are at full strength, you are talking about less than 25,000 men.



and another 25,000 Russians are cut off in the Kherson front and the bridges across the Dnipro have been destroyed and pontoons are coming under Ukraine attack 

everything to the West of the river is basically cut off

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576658889637961728


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> They did not promise to neutralize US sanctions, they promised to keep their committments, and again you make unspecific accusations, aka whining.


i even posted the newspaper


----------



## ZeGerman

Good to see some progress on the kherson front. Keep up the pressure! Slava ukraini! 

In the east they are rolling back many months of russian advances. 

Russian support for the war is plummeting while western support for ukraine stays high. Gas reserves in europe well over 80% and rising. 

I am also wondering how the mobilised orcs will like the ukranian winter in defensive trenches with their poor logistics and supplies….

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576615822210265091

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576615827671244803

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## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> and another 25,000 Russians are cut off in the Kherson front and the bridges across the Dnipro have been destroyed and pontoons are coming under Ukraine attack
> 
> everything to the West of the river is basically cut off
> 
> View attachment 884233


The Ukrainian have enough troop in the south to take Kherson, as long as they prep the city with artillery fire or rocket. There are 6 Brigade in the Kherson bridgehead on the Western Side of the Inhulet. The thing is, Ukraine stopped for some reason. They hasn't move since 9-10 and even they moved 3 Artillery Regiment in the area, they don't do much except taking out bridge and ammo dump or HQ. That's prepatory work and mostly try to keep the Russian in their heels. The conclusion I have is they don't want to destroy Kherson city (They can literally flatten the city with the 3 Artillery Regiment now) and they decided to wait until their Eastern Flank took Nova Karkova and encircle the Russian force there.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576621334725283846

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576660888362549249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576643873056509952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576645023206354945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576641861967806465

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## MeFishToo

Starting to wonder if both sides had a complete blackout in northern Kherson area. My favourite source mentioned ukrainian offence in the north 13. september, and hasnt changed the frontline since. Maybe an update tomorrow. War in Ukraine


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

US gains the most from this conflict and blowing up Nord Stream....

Russians are being mocked and laughed at - but they will extract their pound of flesh from US and Europe for sure. Russians will make sure that war gets dragged on (Ukraine gets paralysed for ever) and if possible, expand to other European states. Russians have a history of fierce counter attack...War ain't ending soon. Celebrations here are childish. 

*By the way, Russians should be grateful to Muslim Chechens...Only they seem to be doing heavy fighting with ferocity - no drinking, no fear - just straight marching into battlefield. *

Europe has become a battlefield now - Noticeable moment in history !!!

Meanwhile, Look at this...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576652946430824449

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## fallschirmjager786

jhungary said:


> The Ukrainian have enough troop in the south to take Kherson, as long as they prep the city with artillery fire or rocket. There are 6 Brigade in the Kherson bridgehead on the Western Side of the Inhulet. The thing is, Ukraine stopped for some reason. They hasn't move since 9-10 and even they moved 3 Artillery Regiment in the area, they don't do much except taking out bridge and ammo dump or HQ. That's prepatory work and mostly try to keep the Russian in their heels. The conclusion I have is they don't want to destroy Kherson city (They can literally flatten the city with the 3 Artillery Regiment now) and they decided to wait until their Eastern Flank took Nova Karkova and encircle the Russian force there.



Seems that Nova Khakovka is the prize, opens up the road to Kherson Oblast on the other side of the river and also the rest of Zaphorizia.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I belive Dudchane push was to make for a defensible flank for a further push.
> 
> You see on the map, it's located next to a large impassable marshland.
> 
> Also, it was an ideal point to push RU forces against.
> 
> I bet, few RU commanders did unknowingly retreat their units into marshes.


One thing I don't understand is Why Ukraine still have regular Brigade posted near Kyiv. I have counted 6 TDF/National Guard Brigade from Ratne to Chernihiv. 4 facing the Belarussian border and 2 National Guard and Special Brigade in Kyiv itself. And they still have 2 Mechanised brigades in reserve SE of Kyiv and SW of Zhytomyr (62 Mech and 110 Mech) . 

There were only a few Belarussian unit facing them and no Russian unit in sight, it would be quite stupid to cross the line as per situation now. Why not just deploy the 2 Mechanised Brigade south to take Kherson? I don't think they are there to R&R as they have been in their position for more than 3 months. Are the Ukrainian expecting something in the Belarussian border?

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## fallschirmjager786

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> US gains the most from this conflict and blowing up Nord Stream....
> 
> Russians are being mocked and laughed at - but they will extract their pound of flesh from US and Europe for sure. Russians will make sure that war gets dragged on (Ukraine gets paralysed for ever) and if possible, expand to other European states. Russians have a history of fierce counter attack...War ain't ending soon. Celebrations here are childish.
> 
> *By the way, Russians should be grateful to Muslim Chechens...Only they seem to be doing heavy fighting with ferocity - no drinking, no fear - just straight marching into battlefield. *
> 
> Europe has become a battlefield now - Noticeable moment in history !!!
> 
> Meanwhile, Look at this...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576652946430824449



Bhaijaan, at the moment Russia can't even hold on to what they had for months. How will they drag the war?? Loosing material and men is not easy to overcome especially when you can't even manufacture replacements because of sanctions.

I'm sure they will still try to smuggle in chips etc but on what scale. They can't even place those mobilized into uniforms because they disappeared....

Yet to see a breakthrough by the chechens, they seem to be chilling in the behind the remaining russian fodder.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576615100395331585
Corruption will end this sooner than we think.

Lesson for Pakistani faujis...


----------



## jhungary

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Seems that Nova Khakovka is the prize, opens up the road to Kherson Oblast on the other side of the river and also the rest of Zaphorizia.


Well, they need to take Nova Karkova to stop the water from flowing into Crimea. That's the reason why Russia take the town early on. 

But that's should have been independent from attacking Kherson. As I said, they already have the strength to get it move on, but they didn't, and in fact, they are taking hit by staying static instead of moving forward, they are waiting on something that they are willing to take hit for, something bigger than Nova Karkova I would assume.


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## PaklovesTurkiye

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Bhaijaan, at the moment Russia can't even hold on to what they had for months. How will they drag the war?? Loosing material and men is not easy to overcome especially when you can't even manufacture replacements because of sanctions.
> 
> I'm sure they will still try to smuggle in chips etc but on what scale. They can't even place those mobilized into uniforms because they disappeared....
> 
> Yet to see a breakthrough by the chechens, they seem to be chilling in the behind the remaining russian fodder.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576615100395331585
> Corruption will end this sooner than we think.
> 
> Lesson for Pakistani faujis...



Only few realise in what situation this world has come into.

Russians are facing the whole might of West. They will do mistakes or face the brunt but that doesn't mean they will kneel down while in war.


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

I have a question , how many jets and helicopters Russia producing yearly to make up for the loss and damaged jets and rotary planes . If they are producing a good amount then the loss don't matter much


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I have a question , how many jets and helicopters Russia producing yearly to make up for the loss and damaged jets and rotary planes . If they are producing a good amount then the loss don't matter much



Attack helicopters about 50 in peace time, about 100 in war time. Fighter jets about 25 in peace time, about 50 in war time. Tanks about 100 in peace time, about 200 in war time.

Production should exceed losses in war time.



PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Russians are facing the whole might of West.



Not really. Just from the US. The US want hegemony and views Russia as threat because Russia does not kow tow to the US.



jhungary said:


> Well, they need to take Nova Karkova to stop the water from flowing into Crimea. That's the reason why Russia take the town early on.
> 
> But that's should have been independent from attacking Kherson. As I said, they already have the strength to get it move on, but they didn't, and in fact, they are taking hit by staying static instead of moving forward, they are waiting on something that they are willing to take hit for, something bigger than Nova Karkova I would assume.



Crimea has sufficient water desalinisation. Considering it only has 2 million people compared to Israel's 9 million which has far higher population density.









Russia to spend $106 million on constructing desalination plants in Crimea — Meduza


The Russian government is planning to build industrial desalination plants in Crimea and Sevastopol to resolve local water shortages by 2023. This was outlined in the government’s newly released plan to ensure reliable water supply to the two regions.




meduza.io







jhungary said:


> One thing I don't understand is Why Ukraine still have regular Brigade posted near Kyiv. I have counted 6 TDF/National Guard Brigade from Ratne to Chernihiv. 4 facing the Belarussian border and 2 National Guard and Special Brigade in Kyiv itself. And they still have 2 Mechanised brigades in reserve SE of Kyiv and SW of Zhytomyr (62 Mech and 110 Mech) .
> 
> There were only a few Belarussian unit facing them and no Russian unit in sight, it would be quite stupid to cross the line as per situation now. Why not just deploy the 2 Mechanised Brigade south to take Kherson? I don't think they are there to R&R as they have been in their position for more than 3 months. Are the Ukrainian expecting something in the Belarussian border?



They have to guard against possible Polish invasion. Western Ukraine used to be Polish land until USSR invaded Poland in 1939 and annexed it, which brought Ukraine's population from 33 million pre annexation to 40 million post annexation. Poland is a NATO country and considering Ukraine is not allowed in NATO Poland remains a threat to Ukraine. Recently, Poland has been arming heavily to an unusual degree. Who knows what Poland's intention is. There's an old saying. Beware of the wolf bearing gifts.

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## gambit

925boy said:


> based on what? your random azz opinion? lmao.
> 
> if Russia's armed forces are so degraded then why does it have *800 aircraft parked* close to Ukraine's territory at this moment? That doesnt sounded degraded to me, and that is just one aspect of Russia's military, but this also doesnt mean i am denying Russia has lost military equipment, but Russia being a top weapons producer also means that Russia can replenish stocks faster and more affordably (local production reduces costs vs importing @ with foreign currencies).


Parked, not flying? In the USAF, or any air force for that matter, it takes at least one yr to certify a maintenance specialist, assuming a high school graduate for now. The assembly line for an F-16 is 6-9 months. Now, how long do you think it takes to train a combat pilot?

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## jhungary

British Army training turn Ukrainian into TDF.

That's 2 Division worth of men a year (the Col said 10,000 Ukrainian walk thru this training in the last 6 months). By the way, and the same training regime happened in Poland, Germany, Norway, US and Canada. That mean preimum overseas training provided more than 100,000 TDF troop a year turning Civilian into Soldier with quality training.

Compare to this

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## Wood

About the crowd in Putin's annexation party 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576254991160860673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576255843896434688


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576621334725283846
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576660888362549249
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576643873056509952
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576645023206354945
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576641861967806465


That's a grandpa


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

PakFactor said:


> Worry about us later. First, try to settle this mess. Realistically, Russia wouldn't touch the US unless it's a last resort. So I'll try and settle the score with Europe first.


It is childish to believe that Russia will allow the US to use nuclear weapons against Russia without retaliating.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> That's a grandpa



Grandpas are past the age of reproduction. They do not produce future soldiers for the nation. So they are expendable. Young men are scarce in Ukraine which has an aging declining population. Losing young men would be catastrophic for Ukraine which already has birth rate lower than pandas.


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Attack helicopters about 50 in peace time, about 100 in war time. Fighter jets about 25 in peace time, about 50 in war time. Tanks about 100 in peace time, about 200 in war time.
> 
> Production should exceed losses in war time.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. Just from the US. The US want hegemony and views Russia as threat because Russia does not kow tow to the US.
> 
> 
> 
> Crimea has sufficient water desalinisation. Considering it only has 2 million people compared to Israel's 9 million which has far higher population density.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia to spend $106 million on constructing desalination plants in Crimea — Meduza
> 
> 
> The Russian government is planning to build industrial desalination plants in Crimea and Sevastopol to resolve local water shortages by 2023. This was outlined in the government’s newly released plan to ensure reliable water supply to the two regions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meduza.io
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have to guard against possible Polish invasion. Western Ukraine used to be Polish land until USSR invaded Poland in 1939 and annexed it, which brought Ukraine's population from 33 million pre annexation to 40 million post annexation. Poland is a NATO country and considering Ukraine is not allowed in NATO Poland remains a threat to Ukraine. Recently, Poland has been arming heavily to an unusual degree. Who knows what Poland's intention is. There's an old saying. Beware of the wolf bearing gifts.


That's good enough, but I haven't witnessed massive bombardment by the Russians it's only artillery or some MRLS no carpet bombing no mother of all bombs , they need to use heavy fire power eradicate the mercernaries over a larger area tanks and artillery not enough , where is carpet bombing ?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Grandpas are past the age of reproduction. They do not produce future soldiers for the nation. So they are expendable. Young men are scarce in Ukraine which has an aging declining population. Losing young men would be catastrophic for Ukraine which already has birth rate lower than pandas.


About 11 million Ukrainians have already fled Ukraine to europian countries , it's mostly the mercenaries are fighting with nato weapons and satellite guidance and armaments


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576667747043667968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576671758115278848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576672101775253506

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> That's good enough, but I haven't witnessed massive bombardment by the Russians it's only artillery or some MRLS no carpet bombing no mother of all bombs , they need to use heavy fire power eradicate the mercernaries over a larger area tanks and artillery not enough , where is carpet bombing ?
> 
> 
> About 11 million Ukrainians have already fled Ukraine to europian countries , it's mostly the mercenaries are fighting with nato weapons and satellite guidance and armaments



The only bomber able to do carpet bombing is Tu-22. Tu-95 and Tu-160 are converted into cruise missile carriers and cannot carpet bomb. Mostly they use attack choppers for attacking tanks.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> are you aware , its not me who must provide link on what you failed , you must provide us about what you manage to do .
> tell us the benefit that iran get from the ones that it supposed to get from the deal.


You make the claim that Europe has failed to meet their obligations and has not been able to show exactly what point of the JPCOA was not met by not selling Airbus.
Sending back *all* obligations and saying that Europe violated all of them is not anything verifyable, and therefore just hot air.
One more reply like that, and I put You on ignore.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576629413172899841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576624871190441984

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The only bomber able to do carpet bombing is Tu-22. Tu-95 and Tu-160 are converted into cruise missile carriers and cannot carpet bomb. Mostly they use attack choppers for attacking tanks.


Ukrcrop attacked kherson with 150 vehicles that was a job one one time carpet bombing

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576587150199779330

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## Ahmadbhutta01

I hope the winter starts soon so the westerners go to their igloo sooner and stopped arms supply , so far Ukraine has been provided with 80bn$ of aid that could have eradicated hunger and poverty in all of Africa we know how much they care about humanity

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## MeFishToo

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Ukrcrop attacked kherson with 150 vehicles that was a job one one time carpet bombing


How are the russians supposed to carry out this carpet bombing youre calling for?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Only few realise in what situation this world has come into.
> 
> Russians are facing the whole might of West. They will do mistakes or face the brunt but that doesn't mean they will kneel down while in war.


They do not have time to kneel down, when racing to leave Russia…

The best example in Russian History of what is happening now is WWI.
That did not end well for Russia until the West defeated Germany.









Treaty of Brest-Litovsk - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I hope the winter starts soon so the westerners go to their igloo sooner and stopped arms supply , so far Ukraine has been provided with 80bn$ of aid that could have eradicated hunger and poverty in all of Africa we know how much they care about humanity



The arguments by supporters of dictators are becoming more and more embarassing over time. This situation is created by Russia, and they have the blame for the consequences.
Meanwhile You can enlighten us how much foreign aid Pakistan is providing.


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

A.P. Richelieu said:


> They do not have time to kneel down, when racing to leave Russia…
> 
> The best example in Russian History of what is happening now is WWI.
> That did not end well for Russia until the West defeated Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaty of Brest-Litovsk - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The arguments by supporters of dictators are becoming more and more embarassing over time.


I'm not much of a fan of Russians but I support Russia in this war we want a multipolar world not unipolar world where usa shut down ur swift and u go broke , western sanctions destroyed economies when it didn't meet their expectations, we are over that and Russia and china are final nail in coffin to western black mails



MeFishToo said:


> How are the russians supposed to carry out this carpet bombing youre calling for?


Hi altitude bombers

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576674175883759617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576674188462813186


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

The way things are going whether u like it or not , Russia will put an end to war by nuking Kiev just like Hiroshima

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## A.P. Richelieu

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I'm not much of a fan of Russians but I support Russia in this war we want a multipolar world not unipolar world where usa shut down ur swift and u go broke , western sanctions destroyed economies when it didn't meet their expectations, we are over that and Russia and china are final nail in coffin to western black mails
> 
> 
> Hi altitude bombers


Congratulations on supporting rape and murder then.
Ignored from now on.


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Congratulations on supporting rape and murder then.
> Ignored from now on.


Yeah rape and murder the term unheard of by west when they invaded iraq Libya and other countless countries

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## A.P. Richelieu

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> The way things are going whether u like it or not , Russia will put an end to war by nuking Kiev just like Hiroshima


Congratulations to being nuked then, because that is the likely side effect.


----------



## MeFishToo

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I'm not much of a fan of Russians but I support Russia in this war we want a multipolar world not unipolar world where usa shut down ur swift and u go broke , western sanctions destroyed economies when it didn't meet their expectations, we are over that and Russia and china are final nail in coffin to western black mails
> 
> 
> Hi altitude bombers


They havent left russian territory. Those aircrafts are used as donkeys transporting cruise missiles inside russian borders. They would be shot down flying over ukrainian air space.


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Congratulations on supporting rape and murder then.
> Ignored from now on.


Yeah rape and murder the term unheard of by west when they invaded iraq Libya and other countless c


----------



## MeFishToo

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> The way things are going whether u like it or not , Russia will put an end to war by nuking Kiev just like Hiroshima


Alternative ending - Russia makes tactical retreats all the way back to Russia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576689806322544641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576689727436005376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576689464927133697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576680340638212096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576562845151821824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576685581777530881


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576665886978879488

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## jhungary

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576410989104627712

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576678075991216128
Seems things are accelerating in Kherson


----------



## merzifonlu

jhungary said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576410989104627712


So suddenly! LOL They cannot bear to hear the truth. They cannot stand it, even if it is their former commander, whose loyalty cannot be doubted.


----------



## jhungary

merzifonlu said:


> So suddenly! LOL They cannot bear to hear the truth. They cannot stand it, even if it is their former commander, whose loyalty cannot be doubted.


And they are going to blame Skype for the disconnection. It's the western Evil Company, it's not about what that former commander has to say.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576305697746100225

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Russians are loosing ground! Im afraid they might use low yield nuke(s) against Ukraine...


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Russians are loosing ground! Im afraid they might use low yield nuke(s) against Ukraine...



Russians are poor warriors. Napoleon and Hitler both reached Moscow.


----------



## TNT

Seems the iranian drones did not change anything.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

TNT said:


> Seems the iranian drones did not change anything.



Too early to say. On paper, Russian arti trumps Ukrainian arti, 203 mm howitzers versus 155 mm howitzers, 300 mm MRLS versus 227 mm MRLS. On top of that, Russians have drone arti which Ukrainians don't have.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576665886978879488



If Ukraine truly made it to Berislav that would be stunning and Russia is in deep s**t.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576713940511657984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576716916340948992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576718123255881732

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576716255654207489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576717288644177920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576717552168079360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576717631473999873


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576675650165182464
Ukrainians made significant progress on the Kherson front today

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576724130283819010

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576710355278909441


----------



## ziaulislam

East only hope a swift end to this war with Russia being able to export food and gas/oil.

We don't care who the winner is..

But reality is more ukraine wins on battlefield the more likely the war is going to be prolonged..Russia simply can't give back the annex territories.. ultimately Russians will escalate and it won't look good


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ziaulislam said:


> East only hope a swift end to this war with Russia being able to export food and gas/oil.
> 
> We don't care who the winner is..
> 
> But reality is more ukraine wins on battlefield the more likely the war is going to be prolonged..Russia simply can't give back the annex territories.. ultimately Russians will escalate and it won't look good



This war won't end any time soon. Think Hundred Years War.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

retaxis said:


> this your first time following a war? let me give you some advice, wars go back and forward in momentum so its not even worth following most of the time. One side gets resupplied, makes gains and then the other side gets new toys and pushes back. Goes back and forward for years especially if no one is fully mobilised and throwing all their chips on the table.


Ah I come from Vietnam we in history have seen lots of wars in our country and in our immediate neighbors. This war however is the most unjustified I have ever seen. Putin, his army, his regime must suffer the defeat that they will never do it again.

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## Battlion25

The Russian mobilization force will reach the frontlines by mid-October and early november there will come in new waves creating another meat-grinder on the collision line.

I forsee or predict Russia taking off the gloves and things getting spicy from here on out but the Ukrainians will not fold but Russia will have to take it from them literally they give no charities ukrainians.

The Russians are also good at winning back wars when they are pushed to a corner just like the WW2 Russia came back from the brink of defeat but in this case Ukraine may win this conflict if Russia was to fail to take off it's gloves.

But the Ukrianians have proven to be solid so far and performed better then most assumed all tho they got territories annexed from them but still fighting for these territories to get them back


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576675169531142145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576675175403180033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576682634230448128

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576756896295288832
200,000 Russians, mostly men, have fled Russia since mobilization was announced.


----------



## Viet

ziaulislam said:


> East only hope a swift end to this war with Russia being able to export food and gas/oil.
> 
> We don't care who the winner is..
> 
> But reality is more ukraine wins on battlefield the more likely the war is going to be prolonged..Russia simply can't give back the annex territories.. ultimately Russians will escalate and it won't look good


Russia can export oil, gas, fertilizer nobody stops them to do that. but they don’t do. Because they use food, energy shortage as weapons. Only stupid cheerleaders like you don’t see that. Putin must withdraw there is no other option. What escalation? Full mobilization? That means more deaths more destruction for Ukraine and Russia.

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## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> Had Putin aligned with your bet, he would have a much more focused ambition to take the 4 territories. Publicly stated that, and also geared his military operation accordingly.
> 
> Instead he denied up until January he had any plans, went all the way to Kiev, got butt kicked, and is redefining his goals to the 4 regions as a face saving measure. Not one about replacing the Nazi regime next door. Not sure why you would take a mult100 single file convoy to Kiev if all he wanted were the 4 regions


So is the bet on?



Viet said:


> Not so my friend
> 
> My definition of victory is who actually controls it, who seizes the territory, not by a clown that decides that is mine.



Yes who controls it of course. I will bet at the end of the war, 4 of those areas will be under complete Russian control. What say you?



Viet said:


> Ah I come from Vietnam we in history have seen lots of wars in our country and in our immediate neighbors. This war however is the most unjustified I have ever seen. Putin, his army, his regime must suffer the defeat that they will never do it again.


WTF, agent orange is justified in your opinion. Damn, your masters trained you well.


----------



## aviator_fan

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Biden implied that US would be okay if Russia only attacked east/south Ukraine.
> 
> That was a masterstroke by the US to pull Russia into a full scale war with NATO and Putin the idiot he is fell for that ploy.


1. Do you understand the meaning of 'Russia will be held accountable'? This is what Biden states clearly. It is now being held accountable. Which of this is a 'masterstroke'.

2. And assume that you don't know the meaning of accountable and this was some masterstroke: Russia, a near superpower with a former KGB person as its leader for 2 decades is just retarded enough to fall for a trap that the US sets. So in this scenario, Russia is a below average IQ set of morons vs. a country capable of its own sound judgment. 

You are clearly a fan of Russia, so give them some credit of wanting to control their destiny vs. a retarded nation that can be manipulated and trapped by a 80 year old President



Hack-Hook said:


> we are not talking about strategic mindset of cold war , we are dealing with one question.
> Did West Germany had any border dispute with any country at 1955 when it joined NATO ? I'm not aware of any.


Wtf happened in Germany in 1955 has anything to do with today. Did anybody care about what happened in Iran in the 30s when the Iran - Iraq war started? 

What ever logic you are applying does not change the realities: USSR did not have any logic going to Afghanistan around some diplomacy border. Powers want to expand and grow, and influence. Some succeed, some fail, others die trying. Germany is united and you are more than welcome to start a thread on Germany in 1955 and run it yourself as I am sure nobody here cares to debate what happened then.



925boy said:


> But Lyman isnt THAT important or strategic actually, Bakhmut is far more important, and Ukraine is about to lose it...just rememvber that Ukraine war starts the same was Afghanistan war starts - feeling good, by the time this war goes into next year, US and west will dump Ukraine, because it will be a depressing, unfixable, LIABILITY, period. screenshot this.


So why don't you come back here when your dream materializes and tell us how true you were. Till then , nobody here believes you or others have a crystalball. There were others like you that predicted in Feb how easily Russia would prevail. We are 6 months in, 100s of thousands have left, minorities drafted, and Russia's prestige is right up there with Nigeria

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ottoman empire was destroyed in WW1. German empire was destroyed in WW1. British and French empires were destroyed in WW2.
> 
> 
> 
> Too many men in the army and women will have no children. Birth rate will be practically 0. 10 years from now war is still going on and Ukraine population fall to less than 20 million.


Good point, and US empire got created as a global dominator that its now in 1-1 against China. No doubt. 

And for the record, Russia myth of an empire destroyed now and will not be coming back for a few generations if at all.



Dalit said:


> Russia is pounding Ukraine and freeing it from Europhiles. Ukrainian citizens are the real victims. Ukrainian women are being exploited in European capitals by the same peoples and nations that are supposed to provide refuge. Ukrainian citizens are being forced to flee. For what? For fighting America's war against Russia.


Well Russia is failing miserably at that. If its so altruistic, why did all the rich ones that could leave, and now 300,000 more have left. Its like one can't protect ones own family but you go to neighbor's house and protect theirs when none is needed. Oh and get your butt kicked in the process...

So good altruistic intentions but may be it should have first kept its own population satisfied instead of turning himself into a default king and ruling over it. 

And finally, Ukrainians themselves (no keyboard warrior is from Ukranians) have chosen to return to live in their country. 7 million internally displaced and 5 million outside. More refugees inside the country than outside


----------



## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> The Europeans and Americans will never dare to jump into the conflict. When push comes to shove expect a nuclear confrontation. Yes, Putin is taking his time and not opting for brute force. Russia is going to capture all important regions of Ukraine little by little. Anything less means failure. Putin knows that there is no return after starting the Ukraine war. Europeans and Americans can live with a dismembered Ukraine. Russia won't tolerate any failure in capturing all important regions. The cost would be too heavy at this moment.


This is probably the only post you have that I agree with you on. But Russia will be economically and industrially reduced to the status of Mongolia by isolation from all technology that it does not make. There is no coming back for the west from that either.

Eventually NATO will settle to where the lines are once the next status quo is reached in a few months. There will be token territory in Dobas and Crimiea that will stay with Russia.



khansaheeb said:


> You can tell things aren't going well for Ukraine as NATO call in the Pope:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pope makes his strongest plea yet for an end to Russia's war on Ukraine
> 
> 
> Pope Francis asked Russian President Vladimir Putin to "stop this spiral of violence and death" and called on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to "be open" to serious peace proposals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pope makes his strongest plea yet for an end to Russia's war on Ukraine​
> *Facebook*
> *Twitter*
> *Flipboard*
> *Email*
> Updated October 2, 202210:17 AM ET
> THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pope Francis waves during the Angelus noon prayer from the window of his studio overlooking St. Peter's Square, at the Vatican on Sunday. He has appealed to Russian President Vladimir Putin, imploring him to "stop this spiral of violence and death" in Ukraine. The pontiff also called on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to "be open" to serious peace proposals.
> Alessandra Tarantino/AP
> VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis on Sunday appealed to Russian President Vladimir Putin, imploring him to "stop this spiral of violence and death" in Ukraine and denounced the "absurd" risk to humanity of catastrophic nuclear war as tensions escalate.
> Francis uttered his strongest plea yet on the seventh-month war as he addressed the public in St. Peter's Square. It was the first time in public that he cited Putin's leadership.
> The pontiff also called on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to "be open" to serious peace proposals. He exhorted the international community to "use all diplomatic instruments" to end this "huge tragedy" and "horror" of war.
> "This terrible, inconceivable wound of humanity, instead of shrinking, continues to bleed even more, threatening to spread,'' Francis said.
> "That humanity again finds itself before the threat of atomic war is absurd,'' the pontiff said. "What more has to happen, how much more blood has to flow" before the war ends? asked Francis.
> The pope implored "the Russian Federation president, also for the love of his people, to stop this spiral of violence and death."


The posts of Putin's fans (and desperation) amuse me. You think Vatican listens to NATO?

Do you even know that several thousands Russians surrendered another town (fortunately they left with their lives). 

And Putin fans will say 'well it was only a town of 30,000 people so its not a big deal'. Well if thats the case, then why the hell were the Russians deployed there.


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## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> The Russian mobilization force will reach the frontlines by mid-October and early november there will come in new waves creating another meat-grinder on the collision line.
> 
> I forsee or predict Russia taking off the gloves and things getting spicy from here on out but the Ukrainians will not fold but Russia will have to take it from them literally they give no charities ukrainians.
> 
> The Russians are also good at winning back wars when they are pushed to a corner just like the WW2 Russia came back from the brink of defeat but in this case Ukraine may win this conflict if Russia was to fail to take off it's gloves.
> 
> But the Ukrianians have proven to be solid so far and performed better then most assumed all tho they got territories annexed from them but still fighting for these territories to get them back


They are already pumping Mobilised Troop into the frontline without waiting for it to complete training. And they did it piecemeal, you don't do that if you are desperate. Because the pressure point in the East is about to fall, the Russian command knows that, that's why they piled untrained bodies in the front.

On the other hand, there are no good for any operation if they are to receive only 4 weeks training if they want to deploy them in Mid-October/November. And that would be too late too, by then Kherson and Svatove or Starbolisk would already buckle. That's a point of no return, because unless the Russian is trying to push from another front with the 4 weeks training recruit, there are no area they can insert those troop because the point of insertion would be Crimea.

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> You are getting a good taste of your own medicine. Russia is teaching you guys a lesson in humility.


I think more of a lesson on how to perpetrate fraud on the country and take it back 30 years in 3.

Russia has had to change every public position on this war and latest being the mobilization. Its young men would rather be refugees than go kill (or die) for lies. 

You and others have made a connection to Afghanistan and NATO. So let me make one, regardless of outcome (exit/defeat) nobody from NATO countries or US escaped their homeland.

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> This is probably the only post you have that I agree with you on. But Russia will be economically and industrially reduced to the status of Mongolia by isolation from all technology that it does not make. There is no coming back for the west from that either.
> 
> Eventually NATO will settle to where the lines are once the next status quo is reached in a few months. There will be token territory in Dobas and Crimiea that will stay with Russia.
> 
> 
> The posts of Putin's fans (and desperation) amuse me. You think Vatican listens to NATO?
> 
> Do you even know that several thousands Russians surrendered another town (fortunately they left with their lives).
> 
> And Putin fans will say 'well it was only a town of 30,000 people so its not a big deal'. Well if thats the case, then why the hell were the Russians deployed there.


There are a very subtle changes when the Russian MOD released info that they have abandoned Lyman, this is the first time they hinted at Ukrainian being in Superior Position, while the MOD guy did not say outright they were forced to withdraw, they did say Ukrainian broke thru and they have to leave (That's the same of withdraw by the way) Lyman to a more advantageous position.

This is not the same crap they said when they use the excuse that they are reorganises and token of good will to leave Kyiv, Kharkiv and Snake island or "Tactical Relocation" when the Ukrainian took swarth of land in Kharkiv just last month.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> based on what? your random azz opinion? lmao.
> 
> if Russia's armed forces are so degraded then why does it have 800 aircraft parked close to Ukraine's territory at this moment? That doesnt sounded degraded to me, and that is just one aspect of Russia's military, but this also doesnt mean i am denying Russia has lost military equipment, but Russia being a top weapons producer also means that Russia can replenish stocks faster and more affordably (local production reduces costs vs importing @ with foreign currencies).


So is it waiting for the next Olympics to bring them out? Why not bring the Air Force and fly 24x7 to wipe out the HIMARS or the supply routes.

We heard of all this: Russians saying they will interdict supply routes. Then they supposedly destroyed all the HIMARS units (in fact double the number of units that were supplied). 

Its not just a matter of hard assets: its a matter of doctrine and ability to fight. With 100 hours of flight time to each Russian pilot, they don't have the proficiency to go do this. There is no major Red Flag like exercise where they learn how to fly coordinated across as a single formation. 

Arabs had numerical superiority (and for that matter the Indians) in the air but it was the doctrine and how they fought (poorly) did them in.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Good point, and US empire got created as a global dominator that its now in 1-1 against China. No doubt.



USA is far weaker than the European empires. It's not even close in terms of population and area. European empires were absolutely monsters.

Donetsk is as important to Russians as Rostov-on-Don. These are twin cities. Communism placed them in different countries in 1920 but really they are twin cities.


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## aviator_fan

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> US gains the most from this conflict and blowing up Nord Stream....
> 
> Russians are being mocked and laughed at - but they will extract their pound of flesh from US and Europe for sure. Russians will make sure that war gets dragged on (Ukraine gets paralysed for ever) and if possible, expand to other European states. Russians have a history of fierce counter attack...War ain't ending soon. Celebrations here are childish.
> 
> *By the way, Russians should be grateful to Muslim Chechens...Only they seem to be doing heavy fighting with ferocity - no drinking, no fear - just straight marching into battlefield. *
> 
> Europe has become a battlefield now - Noticeable moment in history !!!
> 
> Meanwhile, Look at this...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576652946430824449


How far back are you in this Russia's super human history of striking fiercely? Afghanistan defeat occurred in 1988. When is it coming back 'fiercely'? In the mean time Afghans have been a deadzone for another enemy?

Stop chest thumping from WWII when its main enemy, Germany, was fighting another front. Russians would have been hopeless had Germans not been fighting the Brits and Americans at the same time. 

Nobody is celebrating the war. We hope it stops. By same token, I see very few here who say NATO or US is outstanding morally or otherwise. But some like you think Russians are a superhuman race and make outlandishly funny statements like this. Another one hoping for fertility ratio to save Russia. Another says that this war will go for 100s of years when its importing artillery shells from N. Korea.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

After annexation Russia can deploy conscripts. Russian law forbids deploying conscripts on foreign soil. 



https://tass.com/politics/1516715

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> USA is far weaker than the European empires. It's not even close in terms of population and area. European empires were absolutely monsters.
> 
> Donetsk is as important to Russians as Rostov-on-Don. These are twin cities. Communism placed them in different countries in 1920 but really they are twin cities.





PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Only few realise in what situation this world has come into.
> 
> Russians are facing the whole might of West. They will do mistakes or face the brunt but that doesn't mean they will kneel down while in war.


What 'whole might' of the west. How many NATO ships, aircraft, and armor have been used directly? Almost none. In reality it would only take the Nordic countries plus UK to defeat Russia. For about $40BN investment in arms, thats mostly man portable missiles, and artillery/ HIMARS they check mated Russia's progress.

It is definitely testing the civilian population in terms of higher inflation, but militarily don't be deluded that the entire might of US or UK or France or rest of NATO were put to test here.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> What 'whole might' of the west. How many NATO ships, aircraft, and armor have been used directly? Almost none. In reality it would only take the Nordic countries plus UK to defeat Russia. For about $40BN investment in arms, thats mostly man portable missiles, and artillery/ HIMARS they check mated Russia's progress.
> 
> It is definitely testing the civilian population in terms of higher inflation, but militarily don't be deluded that the entire might of US or UK or France or rest of NATO were put to test here.



HIMARS rounds costs a lot. 200 grand a piece. If the US is going to send thousands of them a year to Ukraine for war, it's going to cost far more than Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined. Hell, even more than Vietnam war adjusted for inflation.


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## aviator_fan

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> That's good enough, but I haven't witnessed massive bombardment by the Russians it's only artillery or some MRLS no carpet bombing no mother of all bombs , they need to use heavy fire power eradicate the mercernaries over a larger area tanks and artillery not enough , where is carpet bombing ?
> 
> 
> About 11 million Ukrainians have already fled Ukraine to europian countries , it's mostly the mercenaries are fighting with nato weapons and satellite guidance and armaments


Fiction: 5 million fled, all women, children and older males. Males did not flea.

And 7 million are internally displaced within the country.

It may burn you to think that while Russia has to get criminals and mercanaries, Ukranian males for the greater part sent their families and stayed. Thats the sort of fervor only Taliban have demonstrated to the cause: This is how they are getting results. The same HIMARs in the hands of Afghan National Army would have done squat



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> HIMARS rounds costs a lot. 200 grand a piece. If the US is going to send thousands of them a year to Ukraine for war, it's going to cost far more than Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined. Hell, even more than Vietnam war adjusted for inflation.


Newsflash: US is out of Afghanistan and Iraq. It can pay for these HIMARS for a long long time. You can hope that it won't but thats like 'hoping Russia has some military genius up its sleeve'. The world does not move on hope as Putin is finding out

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Newsflash: US is out of Afghanistan and Iraq. It can pay for these HIMARS for a long long time. You can hope that it won't but thats like 'hoping Russia has some military genius up its sleeve'. The world does not move on hope as Putin is finding out



For a long long time until the US is non white majority and weak like Mexico and Brazil.


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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> USA is far weaker than the European empires. It's not even close in terms of population and area. European empires were absolutely monsters.
> 
> Donetsk is as important to Russians as Rostov-on-Don. These are twin cities. Communism placed them in different countries in 1920 but really they are twin cities.


US has over 50 bases around the world. It has power projection globally and can sail off China unchallenged. China has Djibouti.

The way power is projected in 20th and 21st century is not the same was as Europeans projected 200 years ago. China quick learner and projecting it economically to influence parts of the world. 

You are comparing a 20th/21st century-era empire to one from 200 years ago makes no sense



ziaulislam said:


> East only hope a swift end to this war with Russia being able to export food and gas/oil.
> 
> We don't care who the winner is..
> 
> But reality is more ukraine wins on battlefield the more likely the war is going to be prolonged..Russia simply can't give back the annex territories.. ultimately Russians will escalate and it won't look good


AMEN!



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> For a long long time until the US is non white majority and weak like Mexico and Brazil.


Brazil is a strong economic power. Your racist rant that only whites in US are powerful is pathetic. Unless you don't use a laptop or google, you should know just for those two companies their CEOs are non-white. Big news to you I bet!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Brazil is a strong economic power. Your racist rant that only whites in US are powerful is pathetic. Unless you don't use a laptop or google, you should know just for those two companies their CEOs are non-white. Big news to you I bet!



Brazil minds its own business and barely has a military. Yeah. I know. I know. They bought a few Gripens recently.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576780075113930752


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## Battlion25

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576784788744085505


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You make the claim that Europe has failed to meet their obligations and has not been able to show exactly what point of the JPCOA was not met by not selling Airbus.
> Sending back *all* obligations and saying that Europe violated all of them is not anything verifyable, and therefore just hot air.
> One more reply like that, and I put You on ignore.


you can do that who care, if its a big deal . i listed all the obligation i believe eu failed , if you can prove me wrong , then do so.and as i said we have a detailed hundred plus page thread in iran section about it , you can go there for studying more


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## Oldman1

Battlion25 said:


> The Russian mobilization force will reach the frontlines by mid-October and early november there will come in new waves creating another meat-grinder on the collision line.
> 
> I forsee or predict Russia taking off the gloves and things getting spicy from here on out but the Ukrainians will not fold but Russia will have to take it from them literally they give no charities ukrainians.
> 
> The Russians are also good at winning back wars when they are pushed to a corner just like the WW2 Russia came back from the brink of defeat but in this case Ukraine may win this conflict if Russia was to fail to take off it's gloves.
> 
> But the Ukrianians have proven to be solid so far and performed better then most assumed all tho they got territories annexed from them but still fighting for these territories to get them back


Got news for you, the Ukrainians were also fighting in WW2. Bear the brunt of the war.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> One thing I don't understand is Why Ukraine still have regular Brigade posted near Kyiv. I have counted 6 TDF/National Guard Brigade from Ratne to Chernihiv. 4 facing the Belarussian border and 2 National Guard and Special Brigade in Kyiv itself. And they still have 2 Mechanised brigades in reserve SE of Kyiv and SW of Zhytomyr (62 Mech and 110 Mech) .
> 
> There were only a few Belarussian unit facing them and no Russian unit in sight, it would be quite stupid to cross the line as per situation now. Why not just deploy the 2 Mechanised Brigade south to take Kherson? I don't think they are there to R&R as they have been in their position for more than 3 months. Are the Ukrainian expecting something in the Belarussian border?


Think it was mentioned there were possible 20k Russian troops going to be deployed in Belarus. Don't know if its the reservists or professional. But could be a distraction since 20k is not enough for any renewed offensive even with Belarusian troops combined. Having 8 brigades is alot to keep in the north by the Ukrainians for sure. Another reason why I mentioned about the defenses I put out earlier so something like this won't happen and allows Ukrainians to divert some forces to south or east knowing the defenses are pretty strong in the north. Also once the Ukrainians take norther Luhansk, they should also prepared defenses as well as destroy a few miles of rail lines leading from Russia to Ukraine especially for long term to make any renewed invasion and reoccupied Luhansk untenable and elsewhere.








jhungary said:


> Depends on whether or not Ukraine take Kreminna and Svatove. Both town runs supply line into Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk, and if either or both towns felt. There is no way to supply Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk can hold. The problem rather is will Ukrainian take them? There is no strategic value for both town other than being one of the towns in Luhansk, Russia see it as the last town they need to take to complete Luhansk conquest. Ukraine don't see it so, they may simply by-pass them and attack Starbolisk instead and really try to crack Luhanksk city itself.
> 
> And current intel suggest Kreminna is going to fall in the next 72 to 108 hours, Ukrainian are already fighting in the outskirt of Kreminna, and Savtove can probably last a week or so, but Russian don't have enough troop to guard the entire line.
> 
> View attachment 884232
> 
> 
> This is the OSINT Map on Kreminna-Lysychans front. Every Square with a X on top is a Brigade. and there are 10 Brigade stack in between Lyman and Kreminna at this moment. 10 Brigade = 40,000 men.
> 
> Last intel Briefing I have access to claim Russia have 2 divisional strengths in the area or 5 regiment in total, 2 of them were just retreat from Lyman, so their loss is uncertain, and even if those 2 divisional strength are at full strength, you are talking about less than 25,000 men.


I pushed in the north as well.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Think it was mentioned there were possible 20k Russian troops going to be deployed in Belarus. Don't know if its the reservists or professional. But could be a distraction since 20k is not enough for any renewed offensive even with Belarusian troops combined. Having 8 brigades is alot to keep in the north by the Ukrainians for sure. Another reason why I mentioned about the defenses I put out earlier so something like this won't happen and allows Ukrainians to divert some forces to south or east knowing the defenses are pretty strong in the north. Also once the Ukrainians take norther Luhansk, they should also prepared defenses as well as destroy a few miles of rail lines leading from Russia to Ukraine especially for long term to make any renewed invasion and reoccupied Luhansk untenable and elsewhere.



Well, Russian can't mask troop movement, they failed to do so in the last 7 months, I don't think they can suddenly clean up the act and become a master of disguise and materialise an offensive out of nowhere. Even so 6 Brigades are more than enough to deter or even blunt any Russian advance from the North. They don't really need the 2 Mech Brigades to be held in reserve, or they at least held all 6 TDF/National Guard Brigade on the line. 

While it's unwise to send TDF/National Guard Brigade to take on the offensive in the East, they can replace Regular Brigade and act as reserve and relief force to consolidate hold once the regular retook those land. On the other hand, Ukraine are making 2 Brigade every month, they can spare 2 or even 4 and deploy them elsewhere, they are going to get incoming troop soon anyway, and if they were redeployed south, they can be moved back again if and when Russia try something in the North, they will know because US SATCOM would tell them Russia is building up force again, there are more than enough time to move those Capital Brigade back to defend the North if they have to. 





Oldman1 said:


> I pushed in the north as well.



Well, that's a no brainer decision. 

There are nothing to gain from taking Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk, they are just one town in an Oblast for the Ukrainian. As long as they hold the Lyman and Southern Approach, they can take those city any time. For the Ukrainian, their price is Starobilsk, always has been, without taking Starobilsk, the entire Northern Luhansk are protected, you need to take starobilsk to have a crack on Luhansk city itself. And once that is done, that's the entire Donbas because UKraine would just able to roll up the entire flank along Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia on their flank.

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## Viet

Christine Lambrecht in Ukraine
She brings good news.
Ukraine will receive the most modern air defense system from Germany: IrisT in a few days.
Ukraine will receive 7 systems.
1 system can provide aerial protection over a medium sized city.
Big city as Kiev requires 2.






Verteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht (SPD, 2.v.r) besichtigt mit ihrem ukrainischen Amtskollegen Olexij Resnikow (r.) im Getreidehafen von Odessa Flugabwehrpanzer vom Typ Gepard. Bild: DPA




Foto: Bernd von Jutrczenka/dpa

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## Viet

Annexation who?

Ukraine army continues the offensives at the north, center and southern front. Latest it breaking thru Russia defense line at Cherson.






Attribution: Ukraine Ministry of Defense
Ukrainian artillery gun goes "boom," somewhere in the Kharkiv front


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576729596674060288

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## Viet

Worthless sacrifices

First batches of Russian soldiers from mobilization sent to the fronts in Ukraine are dead.


“When asked how many of the 300,000 new Russian soldiers have been trained and will survive, Arestovich says: "None. They are poorly equipped, have no medicine and are armed with rusty rifles. They have no training at all. They don't even have a bad one, they don't have any – it's awful. It's like a professional boxer fighting against a schoolboy."






Russland beruft Zehntausende neuer Rekruten ein, die Berichten zufolge.






"Einfach keine Ausbildung": Kiew: Erste frisch einberufene Russen schon tot - n-tv.de


Es sei, "als würde ein Profiboxer gegen einen Schuljungen kämpfen", sagt der ukrainische Präsidentenberater Arestowitsch zum Kampf der Ukrainer gegen frisch rekrutierte Russen. "Sie sind schlecht ausgerüstet, haben keine Medikamente und sind mit rostigen Gewehren bewaffnet." Es sei schrecklich.



amp.n-tv.de


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## 1ndy

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I'm not much of a fan of Russians but I support Russia in this war we want a multipolar world not unipolar world where usa shut down ur swift and u go broke , western sanctions destroyed economies when it didn't meet their expectations, we are over that and Russia and china are final nail in coffin to western black mails
> 
> 
> Hi altitude bombers


Hi dear, 

If you want multi polar world then join the russian mobilisation and fight the evil Ukraine. Stop posting here.

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## 1ndy

ziaulislam said:


> East only hope a swift end to this war with Russia being able to export food and gas/oil.
> 
> We don't care who the winner is..
> 
> But reality is more ukraine wins on battlefield the more likely the war is going to be prolonged..Russia simply can't give back the annex territories.. ultimately Russians will escalate and it won't look good


Russia only has one thing left amd that is Nuclear if they work unlike other Russian systems.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> One thing I don't understand is Why Ukraine still have regular Brigade posted near Kyiv. I have counted 6 TDF/National Guard Brigade from Ratne to Chernihiv. 4 facing the Belarussian border and 2 National Guard and Special Brigade in Kyiv itself. And they still have 2 Mechanised brigades in reserve SE of Kyiv and SW of Zhytomyr (62 Mech and 110 Mech) .
> 
> There were only a few Belarussian unit facing them and no Russian unit in sight, it would be quite stupid to cross the line as per situation now. Why not just deploy the 2 Mechanised Brigade south to take Kherson? I don't think they are there to R&R as they have been in their position for more than 3 months. Are the Ukrainian expecting something in the Belarussian border?



Their force distribution is counterintuitive for sure.

I myself completely missed how they assembled forces for the Kharkiv offensive out of the blue.

The 93rd was doing something west of Izyum forest for 2 months, and then bang, they move north in an instant with units I completely lost track of 3 month ago, and here is an offensive.


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## Paul2

Wood said:


> About the crowd in Putin's annexation party
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576254991160860673
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576255843896434688



Essentially like China, I would say Russia is even more Chinese politically than China itself.

I guess, this is what CPC will turn into in 5-10 years

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Their force distribution is counterintuitive for sure.
> 
> I myself completely missed how they assembled forces for the Kharkiv offensive out of the blue.
> 
> The 93rd was doing something west of Izyum forest for 2 months, and then bang, they move north in an instant with units I completely lost track of 3 month ago, and here is an offensive.



Well, they posted their troop in the Northern Border like they are going to be attack by the Russian anytime soon. That's what the Ukrainian is doing, either than or they are saving troop up for something other than Kharkiv and Kherson. I don't know. 

Yes, the Kharkiv Offensive is a surprise. they didn't really let the Russian know any troop movement before H Hour D Day, even then it still has the Russian guessing. If I have to guess, the Ukrainian manage to use 93rd and 81st as smoke screen South West of Izyum, Russian thinking if the Ukrainian are going to try anything, it would have been from that direction. Instead, they amass troop and equipment North of them and when they attack Balakyela (Think I spell that wrong but whatever, you know what I meant). Further north, that's what got the Russian routed. 

But I could be wrong. That's just my thought.


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## Paul2

Battlion25 said:


> The Russian mobilization force will reach the frontlines by mid-October and early november there will come in new waves creating another meat-grinder on the collision line.
> 
> I forsee or predict Russia taking off the gloves and things getting spicy from here on out but the Ukrainians will not fold but Russia will have to take it from them literally they give no charities ukrainians.
> 
> The Russians are also good at winning back wars when they are pushed to a corner just like the WW2 Russia came back from the brink of defeat but in this case Ukraine may win this conflict if Russia was to fail to take off it's gloves.
> 
> But the Ukrianians have proven to be solid so far and performed better then most assumed all tho they got territories annexed from them but still fighting for these territories to get them back



Russia simply has no armour to put that meat into.

They literally have as little as 430 tanks left in the entire theatre by one account. Staffed by adhoc crews, and made of assorted hardware, from T55s to T90s. I bet there is literally nobody younger than 60 today who trained on T55s. And most reservists have certainly only trained on T72s, not 64s, or 80s — which russia has pulled from storage at last, since they are low on 72s.

Ukraine must have at least 600 in running condition, and veteran crews. Their losses are lower, and they can put armour to use in meaningful ways.

The bloodbath is Hostomel is what a tank battalion can do, when put to proper use. 40 tanks shooting HE with autoloader every 6 seconds, until they empty their ammo stock. And they themselves are immune to their own shrapnel, and allied artillery landing in front of them.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, they posted their troop in the Northern Border like they are going to be attack by the Russian anytime soon. That's what the Ukrainian is doing, either than or they are saving troop up for something other than Kharkiv and Kherson. I don't know.
> 
> Yes, the Kharkiv Offensive is a surprise. they didn't really let the Russian know any troop movement before H Hour D Day, even then it still has the Russian guessing. If I have to guess, the Ukrainian manage to use 93rd and 81st as smoke screen South West of Izyum, Russian thinking if the Ukrainian are going to try anything, it would have been from that direction. Instead, they amass troop and equipment North of them and when they attack Balakyela (Think I spell that wrong but whatever, you know what I meant). Further north, that's what got the Russian routed.
> 
> But I could be wrong. That's just my thought.



My guess is also that they held on at much more intense push on Kherson because they plan on repeating the same here after few inconclusive pushes made russians believe UAF staging for frontal assault.

Some part of that massive force blob staying in Mykolaiv is very likely jumping rocades to join the push from north-east


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> My guess is also that they held on at much more intense push on Kherson because they plan on repeating the same here after few inconclusive pushes.
> 
> Some part of that massive force blob staying in Mykolaiv is very likely jumping rocades to join the push from north-east


Well, those are inconclusive mostly because the Ukrainian don't really devote their artillery and rocket artillery in Kherson, I said this like the 8th time now, had they done what Russian did, level the city and then move in with troop, they could have waltz into Kherson by now. Was thinking they are going to do that when they move 3 Artillery Brigade in the area. But no, they are all standing fast instead. 

Evacuate the city, and then level it, anything can rebuild, it would not have waited this long if they had done that. I don't think putting more men into the area would do anything. They can, and they are, trying to strave the Russian out from what I am seeing.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, they posted their troop in the Northern Border like they are going to be attack by the Russian anytime soon. That's what the Ukrainian is doing, either than or they are saving troop up for something other than Kharkiv and Kherson. I don't know.
> 
> Yes, the Kharkiv Offensive is a surprise. they didn't really let the Russian know any troop movement before H Hour D Day, even then it still has the Russian guessing. If I have to guess, the Ukrainian manage to use 93rd and 81st as smoke screen South West of Izyum, Russian thinking if the Ukrainian are going to try anything, it would have been from that direction. Instead, they amass troop and equipment North of them and when they attack Balakyela (Think I spell that wrong but whatever, you know what I meant). Further north, that's what got the Russian routed.
> 
> But I could be wrong. That's just my thought.


I read the report by German army.
Balakhia. a small town, where two Russia army groups linked up, and the major weak point at Russia defense at Kharkiv.
Ukraine army initiated the assault, then amassed the troop Balakhia, additional 3 brigades in secret were brought in, overwhelming the Russians 4:1. The Russians were caught by surprise and fled in panic.
Russian army at Kharkiv were positioned as northern flank of attack. They were not prepared for center assault by Ukraine army.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576845139502596096
Mykhailivka(Kherson) under control of the Ukrainian armed forces.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576852910276689921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576856501645324289


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576845139502596096
> Mykhailivka(Kherson) under control of the Ukrainian armed forces.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576852910276689921
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576856501645324289



Borova and Shyikivka under control of the AFU








https://twitter.com/KilledInUkraine/status/1576847081091698688?s=20&t=nTiArALG-j9eYjZjtG9tJQ





https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1576860529590558720?s=20&t=nTiArALG-j9eYjZjtG9tJQ





https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1576858483663962112?s=20&t=nTiArALG-j9eYjZjtG9tJQ

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576838844020051968


----------



## Enigma SIG

khansaheeb said:


> We should care about every war and learn from them.


The ones who should learn are busy buying US franchises and investing in DHA.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576861212000014336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576854887588982788

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576675088321064960

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576835895910535169

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576871707880476673

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576876718542839809

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576871999875403777

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## jhungary

Intense action saw Ukrainian capture a squad of Russian Soldier (Video said 10 +)

Notice these Russian "Soldier" did not live in a quarter or their living condition is like they are on camping trip...



Viet said:


> I read the report by German army.
> Balakhia. a small town, where two Russia army groups linked up, and the major weak point at Russia defense at Kharkiv.
> Ukraine army initiated the assault, then amassed the troop Balakhia, additional 3 brigades in secret were brought in, overwhelming the Russians 4:1. The Russians were caught by surprise and fled in panic.
> Russian army at Kharkiv were positioned as northern flank of attack. They were not prepared for center assault by Ukraine army.












This summed up the Kharkiv offensive pretty well. And rest assure, Military Academy (probably not Russia) will be studying this offensive probably for decade to come. This is probably the one single most impressive military maneuver in the last 100 years or so.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576887514052186113
lmao @F-22Raptor

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## TNT

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Too early to say. On paper, Russian arti trumps Ukrainian arti, 203 mm howitzers versus 155 mm howitzers, 300 mm MRLS versus 227 mm MRLS. On top of that, Russians have drone arti which Ukrainians don't have.



On paper u should be in a mental hospital but here we r. Do u think its simply about mm of artillery and rockets? U should not be allowed to post here because u reduce the collective iq of the whole forum.

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## alimobin memon

in my opinion this week or next. It will be decided whether Russia can or cannot win this war. Right now its just skirmishes...


----------



## Ali_Baba

*Ukrainian troops 'break through Russian lines' near Kherson *









Ukrainian troops 'break through Russian lines' near Kherson


Ukrainian forces are advancing along the Dnipro River in the southern Kherson region, have captured more territory in Donetsk, and are now attacking into Luhansk, Kyiv has said.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Viet

the Russian troop seem sticking to assault on Bachmut. Important that Ukraine army holds on.








Ukrainische Soldaten in Bachmut am 1. Oktober © Zohra Bensemra/Reuters


----------



## Trango Towers

Viet said:


> I read the report by German army.
> Balakhia. a small town, where two Russia army groups linked up, and the major weak point at Russia defense at Kharkiv.
> Ukraine army initiated the assault, then amassed the troop Balakhia, additional 3 brigades in secret were brought in, overwhelming the Russians 4:1. The Russians were caught by surprise and fled in panic.
> Russian army at Kharkiv were positioned as northern flank of attack. They were not prepared for center assault by Ukraine army.


If Russia had air superiority and satellite coverage/drone coverage this wouldn't happen. 
This war shows drones are the future


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> the Russian troop seem sticking to assault on Bachmut. Important that Ukraine army holds on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainische Soldaten in Bachmut am 1. Oktober © Zohra Bensemra/Reuters


Bakhmut will be fine. There are more than enough spare troop to defend Bakhmut.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Bakhmut will be fine. There are more than enough spare troop to defend Bakhmut.


Seems the Ukraine army there has built strong fortifications. The Russians assaulting the city for 3 months now. They are attacking with everything they have. Still standing. Incredible.


----------



## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> Seems the Ukraine army there has built strong fortifications. The Russians assaulting the city for 3 months now. They are attacking with everything they have. Still standing. Incredible.


Yeah there are many unsung ukranian heroes who “held the line/trench”, especially few months ago outnumbered in artillery fire 10:1.


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> Seems the Ukraine army there has built strong fortifications. The Russians assaulting the city for 3 months now. They are attacking with everything they have. Still standing. Incredible.



I find it incredible how they kept on morale to keep doing failing frontal attacks for 3 months straight.

From what I read, they just keep on sending 1-2 squads, and 1 apc at a time for slaughter to more or less same locations.

They cannot be doing that for 3 months without some deliberation to sacrifice such amount of troops.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576780348918489089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576899744429150209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576883140542414848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576883146611904512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576881370260856832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576878473595203584

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> I find it incredible how they kept on morale to keep doing failing frontal attacks for 3 months straight.
> 
> From what I read, they just keep on sending 1-2 squads, and 1 apc at a time for slaughter to more or less same locations.



This ain't nothing. Abu Duhur airbase siege lasted years.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576873853363851264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576872774895042565

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576913551184515072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576911828919398400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576908926872092673

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Seems the Ukraine army there has built strong fortifications. The Russians assaulting the city for 3 months now. They are attacking with everything they have. Still standing. Incredible.


Well, Ukraine has been rotating 3 Brigades in the area where the same Wagner group attacked every day in the last 3 months. They rotated the brigade out once they think they are low on Morale or Menpower or Both, and insert a new one in, and then been doing so for the last 3 months. 

I think the current configuration is the Ukrainian are rotating the 93 mech, 72 mech and 58 Motor Rifle to zap the strength of the Russian, and you know what, even if Russian somehow break thru that line, there are 2 more TDF Brigade waiting to fight the Russian in Bakhmut itself....

As I said there are pretty much no way the Russian can take Bakhmut


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576915430194941956


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576899626611134466
Not long now until Ukraine advances on Svatove


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576913916520980480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576913922216849408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576899385304133633

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## Viet

Putin’s last reserves remind me of Germany’s “Volkssturm” and Japan “suicide squad” in the final days.

Militarily speaking from questionable to worthless

Those young russian men will run in sport shoes against Ukraine artillery.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Putin’s last reserves remind me of Germany’s “Volkssturm” and Japan “suicide squad” in the final days.
> 
> Militarily speaking from questionable to worthless
> 
> Those young russian men will run in sport shoes against Ukraine artillery.
> 
> 
> View attachment 884396
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 884398
> 
> View attachment 884397



Only difference is Russia has 4 times population advantage over Ukraine. 151 million compared to 36 million.


----------



## jhungary

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576694649967628291


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576917936710725633


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576909928622456832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576894006633857024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576729288006545408


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576899626611134466
> Not long now until Ukraine advances on Svatove



I have already predicted that 5 days and 60 pages of post ago......



jhungary said:


> Ukrainian Flag hoisted over Kup'yans'k-Vuzlovyi​
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574832786258759685
> Ukrainian had expanded the beachhead South over East Kupiansk.
> 
> For those who do not know, or can't read tactical situation, you need that town to protect the flank of Ukrainian troop moving toward Svatove along P07, *my guess is they are going to take Pishchane and Kyslivka next*. Then it will start challenging Svatove itself.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576921291663110144


----------



## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576921291663110144


Look at those fascists going to fight for their dictator who likes to play risk.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Look at those fascists going to fight for their dictator who likes to play risk.



They fight for land. Land is wealth. Land rewards you women and offspring. Men fight for land since birth of humanity 200,000 years ago.


----------



## ziaulislam

1ndy said:


> Russia only has one thing left amd that is Nuclear if they work unlike other Russian systems.


They also have large fleet of high altitude bombers with a lot of dumb bombs and a lot of dumb ICBM.

It may change to Syrian style carnage..if that happens it will be very unpopular at home..

It won't go nuclear it will go carnage first


----------



## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> They also have large fleet of high altitude bombers with a lot of dumb bombs and a lot of dumb ICBM.
> 
> It may change to Syrian style carnage..if that happens it will be very unpopular at home..
> 
> It won't go nuclear it will go carnage first


Need to be sensible.

If Russia don't want to fly fighter jet into Ukraine, why would they fly High Altitude Bomber into Ukraine? It's more or less suicide if Russia fly those bomber in without taking AIr Superiority or SEAD first. both of which were not done. 

On the other hand, Ukraine has been aided by NASAMS and IRIS-T, if they are not doing the carpet bombing at the beginning of the war, there are virtually no chance they are doing it now.

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Look at those fascists going to fight for their dictator who likes to play risk.


They won’t make far.

Against battle hardened Ukraine army those fresh orcs have no chance.







Ukrainische Soldaten grüßen in der befreiten Stadt Isjum. Bild: LAIF


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576933943240056832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576936252095737856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576938806346797056


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576868361757405185
That crowd was bussed in government employees

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> you can do that who care, if its a big deal . i listed all the obligation i believe eu failed , if you can prove me wrong , then do so.and as i said we have a detailed hundred plus page thread in iran section about it , you can go there for studying more



I ask you to take one specific example, show exactly which part of the JPCOA was violated.

Your reply is to list every obligation in the JPCOA.
That is your equivalent of a





__





Gish Gallop


The Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort. It's essentially a conveyor belt-fed version of the on the spot fallacy, as it's unreasonable...




rationalwiki.org





Using such tactics is a clear sign of lack of arguments.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576887640728576000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576888512527233026
This Russian Nazi said it was ok to rape 17yo Ukrainian girls because the legal age of consent is 16.

Now she mad

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I ask you to take one specific example, show exactly which part of the JPCOA was violated.
> 
> Your reply is to list every obligation in the JPCOA.
> That is your equivalent of a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gish Gallop
> 
> 
> The Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort. It's essentially a conveyor belt-fed version of the on the spot fallacy, as it's unreasonable...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rationalwiki.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using such tactics is a clear sign of lack of arguments.


my answer is from that list take one that in practice come in effect not just by name


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576943096545177600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576941020658294784


----------



## khansaheeb

Enigma SIG said:


> The ones who should learn are busy buying US franchises and investing in DHA.


Do you blame them?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> my answer is from that list take one that in practice come in effect not just by name


Nope You have just pulled accusations out of random, without anything verifyable to back them up.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576949001194065922


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Against battle hardened Ukraine army those fresh orcs have no chance.



Battle hardened men running around on foot. Their feet will break from walking around unless they are young men under the age of 30.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Nope You have just pulled accusations out of random, without anything verifyable to back them up.


What you call random , I call living 6 year with JCPOA and see how much it came into effect


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576954972394369024

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576686335074500608

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## ziaulislam

jhungary said:


> Need to be sensible.
> 
> If Russia don't want to fly fighter jet into Ukraine, why would they fly High Altitude Bomber into Ukraine? It's more or less suicide if Russia fly those bomber in without taking AIr Superiority or SEAD first. both of which were not done.
> 
> On the other hand, Ukraine has been aided by NASAMS and IRIS-T, if they are not doing the carpet bombing at the beginning of the war, there are virtually no chance they are doing it now.


Ukriane has no real fighters and no real high altitude SAMs


----------



## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> Ukriane has no real fighters and no real high altitude SAMs


Are you sure??


----------



## Clutch

Viet said:


> Seems the Ukraine army there has built strong fortifications. The Russians assaulting the city for 3 months now. They are attacking with everything they have. Still standing. Incredible.



This why nukes really make sense... From a Russian perspective.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576954972394369024



ATACMS has good range 300 km, but far short of Iskander 500 km and Geranium 1000+ km. It is not a game changer.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576960224216219649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576959417580675073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576963942592655361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576964683264712704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576916535066513408

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576913551184515072

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## ziaulislam

jhungary said:


> Are you sure??


Sorry my bad.. they operate 100s f16 while Russia has no air force at all


----------



## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> Sorry my bad.. they operate 100s f16 while Russia has no air force at all


So what is this??









NASAMS - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Maybe you ought to tell the white house NASAMS has no effect on High Altitude Bomber, they may as well surrender if Russian flew in the bear.

Or this??









S-300 missile system - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





And Ukriane still operate around 50 SU-27 and Mig-29, in case you do wonder.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576950125255356419

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> And Ukriane still operate around 50 SU-27 and Mig-29, in case you do wonder.



Don't work without spare parts. China refuses to sell Flankers to Ukraine. China makes J-16.


----------



## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> So what is this??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NASAMS - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you ought to tell the white house NASAMS has no effect on High Altitude Bomber, they may as well surrender if Russian flew in the bear.
> 
> Or this??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S-300 missile system - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Ukriane still operate around 50 SU-27 and Mig-29, in case you do wonder.


Not to mention the German Iris-T medium range soon to be delivered. I believe its designed with a max altitude range of 20 km.
Russia carpet bombing anything in Ukraine is not going to happen. Eventually their cruise missiles wont have any effect either.

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## ziaulislam

jhungary said:


> So what is this??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NASAMS - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you ought to tell the white house NASAMS has no effect on High Altitude Bomber, they may as well surrender if Russian flew in the bear.
> 
> Or this??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S-300 missile system - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Ukriane still operate around 50 SU-27 and Mig-29, in case you do wonder.


This short and medium range SAM.
S300 with ukriane is 30 yrs old so are mig29 pretty much obsolete without Russian support.

Unless USA provides them with fighters and high altitude SAM Russia will change ukriane into rubble like it did with Syria when it started to loose at ground warfare..

But given this is unpopular at home it will be last option


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576969054866132994

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## ziaulislam

MeFishToo said:


> Not to mention the German Iris-T medium range soon to be delivered. I believe its designed with a max altitude range of 20 km.
> Rusia carpet bombing anything in Ukraine is not going to happen. Eventually their cruise missiles wont have any effect either.


Again low altitude low to medium range


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576967033970753538

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

ziaulislam said:


> Again low altitude low to medium range


Didnt know Russia was planning to deploy the Death Star. The Tupolev isnt flying above 20 km.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ziaulislam said:


> Again low altitude low to medium range



NASAMs range 30 km, less than Buk range 50 km.


----------



## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> This short and medium range SAM.
> S300 with ukriane is 30 yrs old so are mig29 pretty much obsolete without Russian support.
> 
> Unless USA provides them with fighters and high altitude SAM Russia will change ukriane into rubble like it did with Syria when it started to loose at ground warfare..
> 
> But given this is unpopular at home it will be last option


NASAM have a flight ceiling of 27km, that's 27,000 meters, that's 88500 ft, I wonder how far is "High Altitude" in your book?
Range is the lateral range, if you are talking about High Altitude, you talk about ceiling.

And again, if Russian Air Force is too scare to venture into Ukraine to contest Air Superiority, why would you think they will venture into Ukraine with Bombers?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576969221128716288

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Didnt know Russia was planning to deploy the Death Star. The Tupolev isnt flying above 20 km.



lol, he is saying they can intercept an aircraft at 20 km or 65,000 ft is "low altitude" I don't know Russian bomber can fly into stratosphere.

Just to be clear, normal international air traffic flew at either FL350 or FL370. Which is between around 35,000 ft to 37,000 ft. And he said FL650 is considered Low Altitude. Just let that sink in for a moment.


----------



## ziaulislam

jhungary said:


> NASAM have a flight ceiling of 27km, that's 27,000 meters, that's 88500 ft, I wonder how far is "High Altitude" in your book?
> Range is the lateral range, if you are talking about High Altitude, you talk about ceiling.
> 
> And again, if Russian Air Force is too scare to venture into Ukraine to contest Air Superiority, why would you think they will venture into Ukraine with Bombers?


Sir please understand what low medium and high altitude SAMS are..

Aircraft don't sit up and wait at 50,000 feets for sam's with range of just 20-30 km to catch up onto them.

This is basic 101 of SAMs please go read on them



jhungary said:


> lol, he is saying they can intercept an aircraft at 20 km or 65,000 ft is "low altitude" I don't know Russian bomber can fly into stratosphere.
> 
> Just to be clear, normal international air traffic flew at either FL350 or FL370. Which is between around 35,000 ft to 37,000 ft. And he said FL650 is considered Low Altitude. Just let that sink in for a moment.


No want I mean modern mach 2 bombers don't sit and wait for sam to launch.

There is reason why we had loMAD mMad and HiMAD classification.



MeFishToo said:


> Didnt know Russia was planning to deploy the Death Star. The Tupolev isnt flying above 20 km.


Just wow..I am indeed dealing with 3rd grade kids


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> What you call random , I call living 6 year with JCPOA and see how much it came into effect


And you are not competent enough to be able to create an argument after that?
That must be a miserable situation.


----------



## HorusRa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576969054866132994



this is what I picture russian supporters in this forum would actually be doing if they were fighting for Russia

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> Sir please understand what low medium and high altitude SAMS are..
> 
> Aircraft don't sit up and wait at 50,000 feets for sam's with range of just 20-30 km to catch up onto them.
> 
> This is basic 101 of SAMs please go read on them
> 
> 
> No want I mean modern mach 2 bombers don't sit and wait for sam to launch.
> 
> There is reason why we had loMAD mMad and HiMAD classification.
> 
> 
> Just wow..I am indeed dealing with 3rd grade kids


The Basic principal of anti-aircraft intercept is to plot a course, and then you "Boost" the range. You don't just fire the missile WHEN YOU see the bomber or have them in your range, You can guide the missile even before they enter your range with on board guiding system, that's what semi-radar guiding is about.

If what you said is true, then it basically and effectively negates ALL Surface to Air Missile System, because they will all be chasing tail, because you can't be quick enough to fire before the aircraft move out of your range in high speed. Then explain to me how an SA-2 intercept a U2 flying in high altitude









1960 U-2 incident - Wikipedia
 






en.wikipedia.org





Please do not lecture how different system work on a veteran........

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## MeFishToo

ziaulislam said:


> Sir please understand what low medium and high altitude SAMS are..
> 
> Aircraft don't sit up and wait at 50,000 feets for sam's with range of just 20-30 km to catch up onto them.
> 
> This is basic 101 of SAMs please go read on them
> 
> 
> No want I mean modern mach 2 bombers don't sit and wait for sam to launch.
> 
> There is reason why we had loMAD mMad and HiMAD classification.
> 
> 
> Just wow..I am indeed dealing with 3rd grade kids


Your carpet bombing aircraft has to be above this stationary target before dropping its load. Its not like its able to hide its in the air. Ukraine knows already at take off.
If Russia could they would have deployed them already. Apparently Russia knows something you dont, like its limits.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Your carpet bombing aircraft has to be above this stationary target before dropping its load. Its not like its able to hide its in the air. Ukraine knows already at take off.
> If Russia could they would deployed them already. Apparently Russia knows something you dont, like its limits.



TV guided bombs have range up to 17 km. They don't need to be over the targets to carpet bomb.









KAB-500KR - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Need to be sensible.
> 
> If Russia don't want to fly fighter jet into Ukraine, why would they fly High Altitude Bomber into Ukraine? It's more or less suicide if Russia fly those bomber in without taking AIr Superiority or SEAD first. both of which were not done.
> 
> On the other hand, Ukraine has been aided by NASAMS and IRIS-T, if they are not doing the carpet bombing at the beginning of the war, there are virtually no chance they are doing it now.


At peak times Russia artillery was firing 60,000 shells per day that is worse than carpet bombings. Will be indeed a duck shooting if Russia now sends bombers to Kiew.


----------



## ziaulislam

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> TV guided bombs have range up to 17 km. They don't need to be over the targets to carpet bomb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KAB-500KR - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


We have this technology since 1940s.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ziaulislam said:


> We have this technology since 1940s.



There was no digital computer in 1940s. You need digital computer to make smart bomb.


----------



## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Your carpet bombing aircraft has to be above this stationary target before dropping its load. Its not like its able to hide its in the air. Ukraine knows already at take off.
> If Russia could they would have deployed them already. Apparently Russia knows something you dont, like its limits.


Sure, when he is challenged and pushed into a corner and he knows he can't get this right, the only reaction for him is to leave a stupid emoji.....


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576974980792733706

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Viet said:


> At peak times Russia artillery was firing 60,000 shells per day that is worse than carpet bombings. Will be indeed a duck shooting if Russia now sends bombers to Kiew.


Actaully, most Russia strategic bomber has been converted to missile truck to deliver Cruise and Ballistic missile. 
I don't know if Russia have enough strategic bomber to make a different to begin with.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Actaully, most Russia strategic bomber has been converted to missile truck to deliver Cruise and Ballistic missile.
> I don't know if Russia have enough strategic bomber to make a different to begin with.



Su-34 can do carpet bombing. It's F-111 sized.


----------



## fallschirmjager786

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576969054866132994


WTF lol!!


----------



## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> Sure, when he is challenged and pushed into a corner and he knows he can't get this right, the only reaction for him is to leave a stupid emoji.....


Its obvious those bombers wouldny make it to some strategic target protected by ukrainian air defence systems. Im sure US awacs have complete situational awareness of the ukrainian sky, including western parts of Russia, and would give Ukraine time to deploy jets in areas not protected by air defence systems.


----------



## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Its obvious those bombers wouldny make it to some strategic target protected by ukrainian air defence systems. Im sure US awacs have complete situational awareness of the ukrainian sky, including western parts of Russia, and would give Ukraine time to deploy jets in areas not protected by air defence systems.


Any national air defence are multiple layer, very seldom you only depends on one thing or the other to defend your skies. 

There is a reason why Russian Air Force did not even bother to contest on Air Superiority. And this guy is talking about sending in fast bomber in hight altitude will solve the issue. Well, of course, because according to him, the Missile is too short of a range and the fighter interception is too old to function. Well, it's just like I said I can beat Mike Tyson in boxing if his arms are too old to lift. 

It just won't


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576979173851033600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576981446686052352








Russia's lower house approves annexation of four Ukrainian regions


The lower house of Russia's parliament approved laws on Monday on annexing four occupied Ukrainian territories into Russia, following hastily organised votes that Ukraine and the West denounced as coercive and illegitimate.




www.reuters.com

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## Viet

Interesting how precise Ukraine artillery

One shot one kill

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Interesting how precise Ukraine artillery
> 
> One shot one kill



Do they still have some Krasnopol? Krasnopol is accurate against tanks up to 20 km.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576988935141478400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576987759209635840


----------



## zectech

Wall Street cronies are already starting to the preparation to blame Europe and Ukraine for a global economic collapse. That the cia/Trump/Republicans/deepstate and Putin have prepared to replace currencies with bitcoin around the globe as the "final solution".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576984956647092224
1) Entente stages a war and global economic meltdown
2) Trump, Tucker, Putin and other entente trolls blame the victim
3) cia runs the globe


----------



## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> Its obvious those bombers wouldny make it to some strategic target protected by ukrainian air defence systems. Im sure US awacs have complete situational awareness of the ukrainian sky, including western parts of Russia, and would give Ukraine time to deploy jets in areas not protected by air defence systems.


so US that had every tool at its disposal and lost in Iraq and Afghanistan will win against Russia? Is that the logic you believe in? lmaooo...reality will wake up up eventually, i promise you that.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576978477815050241
(Kherson)

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576979433659170817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576978041334427648

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> so US that had every tool at its disposal and lost in Iraq and Afghanistan will win against Russia? Is that the logic you believe in? lmaooo...reality will wake up up eventually, i promise you that.


No, the US will just share intel with the ukrainians. 
You may believe Russia could beat the US in a war. So be it. Nothing in my post said anything about the US going to war with Russia. But to be honest, Russia wouldnt stand a chance.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577004059349127168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577005979069136897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577006401959841793
Russian forces are collapsing on this front

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## The SC




----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577004059349127168
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577005979069136897
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577006401959841793
> Russian forces are collapsing on this front











F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577004059349127168
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577005979069136897
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577006401959841793
> Russian forces are collapsing on this front




lmao



https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1576993698914611200?s=20&t=sPeXXDLILrFnYQJyHglvoQ

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576977125822922757

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577009226811322368

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576998338821357568


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576969054866132994



I hope thy bolshevik choked



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> There was no digital computer in 1940s. You need digital computer to make smart bomb.



There were analog computers, and first TV guided bombs used them just fine.

Delay lines + comparators


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Actaully, most Russia strategic bomber has been converted to missile truck to deliver Cruise and Ballistic missile.
> I don't know if Russia have enough strategic bomber to make a different to begin with.


Russia aviation gets regular beatings.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576227894053208065


----------



## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Russia aviation gets regular beatings.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576227894053208065



This one was from the Mig-31 crash a few days back.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577021114978512896

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> This one was from the Mig-31 crash a few days back.


so the Mig catched fire. then when trying to stop it they must have caused the ammo depot nearby to explode.






© Foto: dpa
​


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577024936493068288

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> so US that had every tool at its disposal and lost in Iraq and Afghanistan will win against Russia? Is that the logic you believe in? lmaooo...reality will wake up up eventually, i promise you that.


There is a difference between conventional war and an (low level) insurgency you muppet. 

Last years US losses in afghanistan were a mere 20 to 30 a year.

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## Soldier35

In Russia, large-scale exercises and firing at firing ranges began. Before being sent to Donbass, mobilized soldiers practice firing small arms, AGS-17, RPG-7 grenade launchers, heavy machine guns and Dragunov sniper rifles






The first Ukrainian corvette "Hetman Ivan Mazepa" was launched in Turkey. The ship was built according to the project of Turkish Ada-class anti-submarine corvettes. The ship is to become part of the Ukrainian fleet in 2024, but the deadlines may shift, the ship for equipping and installing weapons should be completed in Ukraine, but there is no such possibility now, no one has answered this question yet.

Estimated armament of the ship, 4 Harpoon anti-ship missiles, VL MICA air defense systems, 76-mm OTO Melara Super Rapid and 35-mm Millennium artillery mounts. as well as two machine-gun installations with a caliber of 12.7 mm. Anti-submarine armament will consist of two 324-mm torpedo tubes. The ship has a speed of up to 29 knots with a cruising range of 3,500 nautical miles, an autonomy of 10 days, with a supply of 21 days. Possibly an S-70B Seahawk helicopter.






The M-109A5OE self-propelled howitzer was seen on the video of one of the soldiers of Ukraine, let's take a closer look at it. Howitzers M-109A5OE were previously delivered to Ukraine in the amount of 6 pieces by Latvia, which, in turn, bought them from Austria at a price of 140 thousand euros per piece. The M-109A5OE howitzer is a modernized version of the American M109 self-propelled guns, which was produced from 1962 to 2003 and has also been modernized many times. The American M109 self-propelled guns became the base self-propelled guns of many NATO armies in various modifications. The firing range of a howitzer with a standard projectile is 22 km, an active-reactive projectile is 30 km, self-propelled guns can fire GPS-guided projectiles. The vehicle is protected by rolled aluminum armor and has a crew of 6 people. Howitzer maximum speed - 56 km / h, cruising range - 350 km






Head-to-head tank battle footage in Ukraine. In the video, the Ukrainian T-64BV tank, having reloaded, moves forward to the closest possible distance, where it is struck by the Russian T-80BV tank of the Marine Corps units of the Pacific Fleet. These are the first shots where Russian and Ukrainian tanks are fighting head-on at a minimum distance.






One against four, rare footage of close combat in Ukraine. In the video, one of the Russian soldiers came into close combat against four soldiers of the Ukrainian army.

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## A.P. Richelieu

ZeGerman said:


> There is a difference between conventional war and an (low level) insurgency you muppet.
> 
> Last years US losses in afghanistan were a mere 20 to 30 a year.


Based on his reasoning, the Soviet Union lost wars against Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and a host of other European Countries which kicked out the Soviet Union at the end of the Cold War. It also lost WWII with Germany united and the Soviet Union dissolved.
That makes the Soviet Army the most useless Army of the 20th century,

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577011171189661697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576932001172451328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576895899267014657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576885823491883011

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577024936493068288



So - where did all the russian soldiers go ???

Oh yes - now i remember - they are all dead ..


----------



## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> No, the US will just share intel with the ukrainians.


But US is already sharing money and ammunition from national stocks with Ukraine currently, so its not only "intel" US is sharing in this NATO-initiated war.


MeFishToo said:


> You may believe Russia could beat the US in a war.


Many countries can beat US in a war, afterall Afghanistan and Iraq did, but main issue is that these countries dont want to have their entire country destroyed via war crimes just to prove they can beat US. Also, that doesnt even mean Russia can beat US in a war, and i didnt claim that as my point either. lol


MeFishToo said:


> So be it. Nothing in my post said anything about the US going to war with Russia.


But US IS already in a war with Russia, just indirectly, so stop with your bulsht semantics- war is war, indirect or direct, its still war, you think Putin is making nuke threats because US "isnt involved in the Ukraine war"? get over it, or stop manipulating- US is fully involved in the Ukraine war, period.


MeFishToo said:


> But to be honest, Russia wouldnt stand a chance.


then how did Afghanistan and Iraq stand a chance and win?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576872254205726720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576840387934552065

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576839116490125312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576813870571982848


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577012755097214978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577018146896347136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577018755896385543

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577025596680704001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577028292510523392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577016789502136320

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576782138116276224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577018898683416577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577013327120633856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577020233126408192

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577014548582002688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576880220984184832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577005239307489280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577002260038492160


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577025997832355840


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577040154342338560


----------



## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> But US is already sharing money and ammunition from national stocks with Ukraine currently, so its not only "intel" US is sharing in this NATO-initiated war.
> 
> Many countries can beat US in a war, afterall Afghanistan and Iraq did, but main issue is that these countries dont want to have their entire country destroyed via war crimes just to prove they can beat US. Also, that doesnt even mean Russia can beat US in a war, and i didnt claim that as my point either. lol
> 
> But US IS already in a war with Russia, just indirectly, so stop with your bulsht semantics- war is war, indirect or direct, its still war, you think Putin is making nuke threats because US "isnt involved in the Ukraine war"? get over it, or stop manipulating- US is fully involved in the Ukraine war, period.
> 
> then how did Afghanistan and Iraq stand a chance and win?


I have no idea why youre adressing me with those points. I was pointing out that Russia isnt going to carpet bomb anything in Ukraine, and one of the reasons being the US sharing intel with Ukraine. Take your diversion somewhere else. Im not going have some US/West bashing ping-pong with you or anyone else on this forum. Its pointless and a waste of time.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577041947566682112

Ukraine to get an additional 4 HIMARS and 200 MRAPS immediately along with more ammo.

That will increase Ukraines HIMARS to 20.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577041947566682112
> 
> Ukraine to get an additional 4 HIMARS and 200 MRAPS immediately along with more ammo.
> 
> That will increase Ukraines HIMARS to 20.



20 is too few. The US had 300 HIMARS at the start of the war. They need to send at least 100 to 200 HIMARS to Ukraine for war.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577046228910866433


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577041947566682112
> 
> Ukraine to get an additional 4 HIMARS and 200 MRAPS immediately along with more ammo.
> 
> That will increase Ukraines HIMARS to 20.



Remember when some over here said Himars wouldn't be a game changer. And now look at the Russian army.... Time goes by so fast.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> Remember when some over here said Himars wouldn't be a game changer. And now look at the Russian army.... Time goes by so fast.



If HIMARS so effective Ukrainians would have taken back Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson, Melitopol. Fact is, HIMARS lacks the range and punch of Tornado-S, Iskander, Geranium.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576989287702151170


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576967419025043458

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577040375029837824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577018755896385543

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## 1ndy

ziaulislam said:


> They also have large fleet of high altitude bombers with a lot of dumb bombs and a lot of dumb ICBM.
> 
> It may change to Syrian style carnage..if that happens it will be very unpopular at home..
> 
> It won't go nuclear it will go carnage first


they can't fly Su34, 35 and 30s above 100ft... and when they mistakenly go higher than that, get shot down.

High altitude bombers will get shot even before entering Ukraine. Let them try just to be sure.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577047069134815232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577044901686280192

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ziaulislam

1ndy said:


> they can't fly Su34, 35 and 30s above 100ft... and when they mistakenly go higher than that, get shot down.
> 
> High altitude bombers will get shot even before entering Ukraine. Let them try just to be sure.


Shot with what??
They need 100 km range SAMs to destroy bombers deploying simplr GLONASS based stand off weapons

Uncle sam needs to provide them woth patriot system


----------



## James David

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Putin under estimated the power of Zelensky and Jewish lobby on the US government.


Not that Jewish Sh*t again. Why is that that if something goes wrong it's always the Jew's fault?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 1​Oct 1, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Grace Mappes, and Frederick W. Kagan
October 1, 7 pm ET *​*Click **here**to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukrainian forces inflicted another significant operational defeat on Russia and liberated Lyman, Donetsk Oblast, on October 1. *The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced the withdrawal of Russian troops from Lyman to “more advantageous positions” to avoid the “threat of encirclement” in the settlement.[1] Social media footage and Ukrainian military officials confirmed that Ukrainian forces have entered Lyman and are likely clearing the settlement as of October 1.
*The Russian information space – composed of Kremlin propagandists, pundits, and milbloggers – registered the defeat as the result of the Russian military command’s failure to send reinforcements in a timely manner, while openly criticizing repeated bureaucratic failures during the mobilization.[2]* Russian commentators overwhelmingly expressed their hopes that partial mobilization would generate enough force to resume offensive operations and regain the initiative. Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, apparently devastated by the defeat in Lyman, called on Russia to continue to fight to ”liberate” the four annexed territories with all available means including low-yield nuclear weapons.[3]
Kadyrov’s rant is similar to the disorganized and often hyperbolic milblogger rants that call for the Kremlin to continue the war in Ukraine, and his call for the use of nuclear weapons was not representative of the discourse within the Russian information space. Russian federal TV channels and ultra-hawkish milbloggers have often discussed Russian nuclear capabilities as part of their efforts to stoke patriotic sentiments among Russian domestic audiences, and Kadyrov’s statement was not especially noteworthy in this context.
Kadyrov’s call for using tactical nuclear weapons is likely inconsistent with his demands to continue the “special military operation” to bring more Ukrainian territory under Russian control. The Russian military in its current state is almost certainly unable to operate on a nuclear battlefield even though it has the necessary equipment and has historically trained its units to do so. The chaotic agglomeration of exhausted contract soldiers, hastily mobilized reservists, conscripts, and mercenaries that currently comprise the Russian ground forces could not function in a nuclear environment. Any areas affected by Russian tactical nuclear weapons would thus be impassable for the Russians, likely precluding Russian advances. This consideration is another factor that reduces the likelihood of Russian tactical nuclear weapons use.
*Kadyrov blamed the commander of the Central Military District (CMD), Colonel General Alexander Lapin, for failures around Lyman. Kadyrov’s attacks gained significant traction within the Russian information space and indicate that the rift between Russian traditional and non-traditional forces is likely growing. *Kadyrov stated that Lapin, responsible for the ”central” group of forces in Ukraine, failed to properly equip units operating in the Lyman area and moved his headquarters far from the frontlines. Kadyrov also accused the Russian General Staff and specifically Chief of the General Staff, Army General Valery Gerasimov, of covering up Lapin’s failures. Wagner Group financier Evgeniy Prigozhin publicly agreed with Kadyrov’s criticism of Lapin, saying that the higher military command should fight “barefoot with machine guns on the frontlines.”[4] Milbloggers and state television hosts praised Kadyrov‘s and Prigozhin’s critiques of the Russian military command, adding that the command is corrupt and disinterested in Russian strategic goals.[5] Kadyrov, Lapin, and Prigozhin are all operating in the Donbas sector, and such comments indicate the strains within the Russian forces operating in Ukraine and their leadership. The Kremlin may be amplifying such criticism to set informational conditions for personnel changes within the higher military command in weeks to come.
*The defeat around Lyman also indicates that Russian President Vladimir Putin – who has reportedly been micromanaging Russian commanders on the ground – is deprioritizing defending Luhansk Oblast in favor of holding occupied territories in southern Ukraine. *Ukrainian and Russian sources consistently indicate that Russian forces continued to reinforce Russian positions in Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts, despite the recent collapse of the Kharkiv-Izyum front and even as the Russian positions around Lyman collapsed.[6] The decision not to reinforce vulnerable Kupyansk or Lyman front lines was almost certainly Putin’s, not that of the military command, and suggests that Putin cares far more about holding the strategic terrain of Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts than he does about Luhansk Oblast.
*Russia is likely setting conditions to assume legal responsibility for the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP). *Russian authorities detained the general director of the ZNPP, Ihor Murashov, on September 30.[7] A Russian miblogger claimed that Murashov’s detention will have no tangible impact on the operation of the plant since the power units are already shut down and stated that authorities are currently undertaking ”routine“ legal work to transfer control of the plant to Russian state nuclear energy corporation Rosatom and create a new legal entity for the ZNPP.[8] Murashov’s detention and the ”legal” process of transferring control of the ZNPP to Rosatom are noteworthy indications that Russian authorities will likely seek to exploit their control of the ZNPP to pressure the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to legitimize the illegal Russian annexations of occupied Ukrainian territory by coercing it to acknowledge Russia‘s legal control over the ZNPP.
*Russian forces conducted a failed ground attack on Kozacha Lopan in northern Kharkiv Oblast on October 1. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian ground attack on Kozacha Lopan, 5km from the Kharkiv Oblast-Russia border.[9] Such attacks indicate that Russian President Vladimir Putin likely retains the aim of regaining control of territory beyond the oblasts he has illegally annexed and is willing to allocate Russian military assets to such offensive actions rather than dedicating them to defending against the Ukrainian counteroffensive in Donbas.
*Key Takeaways*

*Ukrainian forces liberated Lyman and are likely clearing the settlement as of October 1.*
*Russia is likely setting conditions to assume legal responsibility for the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP).*
*Ukrainian troops are continuing to conduct counteroffensive operations in Kherson Oblast and setting conditions for future advances.*
*Russian forces conducted ground attacks in the Bakhmut and Avdiivka areas of Donetsk Oblast.*
*Russian forces continued routine strikes against Ukrainian rear areas in the south.*
*Russian military leadership is continuing to compromise the future reconstitution of the force by prioritizing the immediate mobilization of as many bodies as possible for ongoing fighting in Ukraine.*
*Russian mobilization authorities continue to carry out discriminatory mobilization practices.*
*

*

*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*


Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Vovchansk-Kupyansk-Izyum-Lyman Line)*
Ukrainian forces liberated Lyman on October 1. The Russian Ministry of Defense and various Russian milbloggers confirmed that Russian troops withdrew from Lyman to “more advantageous lines,” and geolocated social media footage shows Ukrainian troops in various parts of Lyman throughout the day on October 1.[10] Russian sources indicated that the BARS-13 detachment that was holding the Russian defensive line in Drobysheve, just northwest of Lyman, withdrew to Kreminna (about 25km east of Lyman).[11] Details about Ukrainian advances remain unclear, however. Several Russian sources reported that Ukrainian troops blew up a bridge on the eastern outskirts of Kirove, 10km northeast of Lyman.[12] However, the footage is not corroborated by social media geolocation communities. The dynamic nature of ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensive operations in this area is likely generating confusing and contradictory reporting. Russian sources also discussed Ukrainian attacks north of Lyman around Torske, Terny, and Yampilske, suggesting that Ukrainian troops are continuing efforts to take settlements north of Lyman as well.[13] ISW will continue to monitor developments around Lyman and provide updates on control of terrain as they become corroborated.



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Ukrainian military officials reiterated on October 1 that Ukrainian troops are continuing to conduct counter-offensive operations in Kherson Oblast and setting conditions for future advances in various areas along the frontline.[14] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command noted that Russian forces are drawing up reserves and regrouping in the face of constant Ukrainian actions in southern Ukraine.[15] Ukrainian officials additionally stated that Ukrainian forces are continuing an interdiction campaign to target Russian concentration areas in Kherson Oblast.[16]
Social media footage indicates that Ukrainian forces struck a Russian ammunition warehouse in Tavriisk, 57km east of Kherson City and on the outskirts of Nova Kakhkova.[17]
Russian sources identified one main area in which Ukrainian troops conducted active ground maneuvers in Kherson Oblast on October 1. A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces attacked Russian positions in Davydiv Brid, in western Kherson Oblast near the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border near the Inhulets River.[18] The milblogger claimed that Russian troops repelled the attack and forced Ukrainian troops to withdraw across the Inhulets, but maintained that Ukrainian troops are focused on taking Davydiv Brid.[19]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces conducted ground attacks in the Bakhmut and Avdiivka areas and continued routine fire along the line of contact in Donetsk Oblast on October 1.[20] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground attacks directly on Bakhmut, to the northeast near Soledar, and south of Bakhmut near Vesela Dolyna (6km southeast of Bakhmut), Zaitseve (8km southeast of Bakhmut), and Niu York (15km west of Horlivka), and west of Avdiivka near Pervomaiske.[21]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole and in Mykolaiv and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts on October 1.[22] Russian forces struck Zaporizhia City, Mykolaiv City, Ochakiv, and Nikopol.[23] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces continued to strike Mykolaiv City with Shahed-136 kamikaze drones and damaged port, residential, and industrial infrastructure.[24] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces also conducted a missile strike against Odesa City, damaging industrial infrastructure.[25] Russian Zaporizhia Oblast occupation administrator Vladimir Rogov accused Ukrainian forces of intensifying shelling against Enerhodar and the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant.[26]
Russian forces continued to divert Russian military assets to southern Ukraine. Footage posted to Twitter on September 30 shows Russian covered and armored vehicles and tanks moving by rail reportedly to Crimea.[27] Ukrainian Mariupol Mayoral Advisor Petro Andryushchenko stated that Russian forces transported 11 pieces of heavy equipment from Nikolske, Donetsk Oblast west towards Rozivka, Zaporizhia Oblast on October 1.[28]
Russian and Ukrainian sources reported explosions at the Belbek Airfield in occupied Sevastopol, Crimea on October 1. Russian occupation Governor of Sevastopol Mikhail Razvozhaev claimed that a Russian plane skidded off the runway and caught fire as it attempted to land.[29] Blurred footage shows a plane exploding after rolling off the runway, and footage of the aftermath shows plumes of smoke and secondary explosions of what appears to be rocket ammunition.[30]



*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Russian military leadership is continuing to compromise the future reconstitution of the force by prioritizing the immediate mobilization of as many bodies as possible for ongoing fighting in Ukraine. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on October 1 that the Russian military leadership has ordered the early graduation of cadets from Russian military academies due to the shortage of officer-cadre personnel.[31] Cadets in their final year at the Ryazan Airborne Training School will reportedly be assigned to junior officer positions and will train mobilization reserve regiments at grounds near Ryazan, Omsk, Pskov, Tula, and other cities.[32] The General Staff reported that cadets and their reserve regiments will deploy to the frontline in Ukraine after no more than a month of training.[33] The practice of prematurely assigning cadets to reserve regiments will likely further degrade already-poor command structures, as underprepared cadets will be forced into leadership roles with insufficient training and little or no professional experience. The expending of cadets in this fashion can gravely complicate Russian efforts to rebuild the Russian military in years to come.
Russian mobilization authorities continue to carry out discriminatory mobilization practices. Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) posted audio of an intercepted phone call in which a Russian serviceman complains that men from more affluent Russian regions, namely around St. Petersburg and Moscow, are not being mobilized to the same degree as areas such as Kursk, Voronezh, and Belgorod Oblasts, where the largest mobilization efforts are taking place.[34] The intercepted audio confirms that mobilization regimes in more peripheral and less affluent Russian oblasts are mobilizing men without military experience.[35] Ukrainian officials additionally stated that Russian officials are increasingly detaining military-aged men in occupied regions of Ukraine.[36]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Nothing significant to report.
*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update.*

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 2​Oct 2, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

_*Special Edition on Changes in the Russian Information Space Following the Russian Defeat in Lyman*_
*Kateryna Stepanenko and Frederick W. Kagan
October 2, 10:15 pm ET*​*Click here to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
This campaign assessment special edition focuses on dramatic changes in the Russian information space following the Russian defeat around Lyman and in Kharkiv Oblast and amid the failures of Russia’s partial mobilization. Ukrainian forces made continued gains around Lyman, Donetsk Oblast, and have broken through Russian defensive positions in northeastern Kherson Oblast. Those developments are summarized briefly and will be covered in more detail tomorrow when more confirmation is available.
The Russian defeat in Kharkiv Oblast and Lyman, combined with the Kremlin’s failure to conduct partial mobilization effectively and fairly are fundamentally changing the Russian information space. *Kremlin-sponsored media and Russian milbloggers – a prominent Telegram community composed of Russian war correspondents, former proxy officials, and nationalists – are grieving the loss of Lyman while simultaneously criticizing the bureaucratic failures of the partial mobilization.[1] Kremlin sources and milbloggers are attributing the defeat around Lyman and Kharkiv Oblast to Russian military failures to properly supply and reinforce Russian forces in northern Donbas and complaining about the lack of transparency regarding the progress of the war.[2]
Some guests on heavily-edited Kremlin television programs that aired on October 1 even criticized Russian President Vladimir Putin’s decision to annex four Ukrainian oblasts before securing their administrative borders or even the frontline, expressing doubts about Russia’s ability ever to occupy the entirety of these territories.[3] Kremlin propagandists no longer conceal their disappointment in the conduct of the partial mobilization, frequently discussing the illegal mobilization of some men and noting issues such as alcoholism among newly mobilized forces.[4] Some speaking on live television have expressed the concern that mobilization will not generate the force necessary to regain the initiative on the battlefield, given the poor quality of Russian reserves.[5]
*The Russian information space has significantly deviated from the narratives preferred by the Kremlin and the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) that things are generally under control. *The current onslaught of criticism and reporting of operational military details by the Kremlin’s propagandists has come to resemble the milblogger discourse over this past week. The Kremlin narrative had focused on general statements of progress and avoided detailed discussions of current military operations. The Kremlin had never openly recognized a major failure in the war prior to its devastating loss in Kharkiv Oblast, which prompted the partial reserve mobilization.[6]
The Russian MoD has consistently focused on exaggerating Russian success in Ukraine with vague optimistic statements while omitting presentations of specific details of the military campaign. The daily Russian MoD briefing has claimed to capture the same villages more than once as ISW and independent investigators have observed, and the Russian MoD rarely releases photographic evidence confirming claims of Russian advances. [7]
The Russian MoD has sought to impose this kind of narrative on the milbloggers as well. Advisor to the Russian Defense Minister Andrey Ilnitsky called on Russian journalists and milbloggers on May 26 to refrain from presenting detailed coverage of the war and to avoid publishing negative information that could help the West infiltrate the Russian information space and win the “hybrid war.”[8]
The milbloggers largely disregarded the MoD’s directives, and Putin seemed to support them in this disobedience, rewarding them with a lengthy personal meeting on June 17.[9] Most milbloggers have continued to report Russian battlefield setbacks and to criticize failures in the partial mobilization, often in strident tones. Putin has not apparently punished any major milbloggers for their outspokenness or allowed others to punish them. He has, however, kept their critiques off of the mainstream Russian airwaves. Kremlin mouthpieces on federally-owned TV channels had continued to puppet the MoD and Kremlin lines for the most part—until the partial mobilization.
*The Kremlin’s declaration of partial mobilization exposed the general Russian public to the consequences of the defeat around Kharkiv and then at Lyman, shattering the Kremlin’s efforts to portray the war as limited and generally successful.* The Russian defeat around Lyman has generated even more confusion and negative reporting in the mainstream Russian information space than had the Russian withdrawals from Kyiv, Snake Island, or even Kharkiv. The impact of Lyman is likely greater because Russians now fear being mobilized to fix problems on the battlefield. An independent Russian polling organization, the Levada Center, found that more than half of respondents said that they were afraid that the war in Ukraine could lead to general mobilization, whereas the majority of respondents had not voiced such concerns in February 2022.[10] Russians also likely see that the Kremlin is executing the current partial mobilization – which was supposed to be a limited call-up of qualified reservists – in an illegal and deceptive manner, which places more men at the risk of being mobilized to reinforce collapsing frontlines.
*Putin relies on controlling the information space in Russia to safeguard his regime much more than on the kind of massive oppression apparatus the Soviet Union used, making disorder in the information space potentially even more dangerous to Putin than it was to the Soviets. *Putin has never rebuilt the internal repression apparatus the Soviets had in the KGB, Interior Ministry forces, and Red Army to the scale required to crush domestic opposition by force. Putin has not until recently even imposed the kinds of extreme censorship that characterized the Soviet state. Russians have long had nearly free access to the internet, social media, and virtual private networks (VPNs), and Putin has notably refrained from blocking Telegram even though the platform refused his demands to censor its content and even as he has disrupted his people’s access to other platforms. The Russian information space has instead relied on journalists and TV talk-show guests to enforce coerced self-censorship, especially after the Kremlin adopted a law that threatens Russians with up to 15 years in jail for “discrediting the army.”[11] The criticism on Russian federal TV channels of military failings and failings of the partial mobilization effort, especially following the defeat at Lyman, is thus daring and highly unusual for the Kremlin’s propaganda shows. It has brought the tone and tenor of some of the milblogger critiques of Russia’s performance in the war into the homes of average Russians through official Kremlin channels for the first time.
*Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov and Wagner Private Military Company financier Evgeniy Prigozhin have further damaged the Kremlin’s vulnerable narratives during and after the fall of Lyman. *Kadyrov published a hyperbolic rant on October 1 in which he accused the Russian military command of failing to promptly respond to the deteriorating situation around Lyman and stated that Russia needs to liberate the annexed four oblasts with all available means including low-yield nuclear weapons.[12] Prigozhin reiterated Kadyrov’s critiques of the Russian military leadership. The West‘s focus on Kadyrov’s nuclear threat obscured the true importance of these statements. 
Kadyrov and Prigozhin are bona fide members of the small group of leaders Russians call _siloviki—_people with meaningful power bases and either membership in or direct access to Putin’s inner circle. Kadyrov has a history of irresponsible statements and boasts that do not always grab headlines or shape narratives in Russia. Prigozhin is not a normally dominant voice either, although his prominence has grown in recent weeks.[13] But their statements on October 1 have had a profound effect on the Russian information space. Together they broke the Kremlin’s narrative that attempted to soften the blow of the defeat around Lyman. Federal outlets had largely expressed hopeful attitudes that newly mobilized men and deployed reinforcements could either hold the line or conduct counter-attacks in the near future, prior to Kadyrov’s statement.[14] But talk shows on federally-controlled channels picked up immediately on the Kadyrov-Prigozhin statements, prompting commentators on live television to add to the criticism of the higher military command.[15] The Kremlin’s propagandists even had to disrupt the presentation of the former Russian Southern Military District (SMD) Deputy Commander Andrey Gurulyov when he started to blame the higher military command for the defeat in Lyman during a live broadcast.[16]
*Kadyrov and Prigozhin’s statement likely publicly undermined Putin’s leadership, possibly inadvertently. *Kadyrov specifically targeted the commander of the Central Military District (CMD), Colonel General Alexander Lapin, and accused Chief of the General Staff Army General Valery Gerasimov of covering up Lapin’s failures in Lyman. Putin had publicly expressed his trust in Lapin when the Russian MoD announced Lapin’s victory around Lysychansk on June 24.[17] Western military officials have also reported that Putin has been making operational military decisions in Ukraine and micromanaging his military command.[18] Putin is thus likely responsible for the decisions not only not to reinforce Lyman but also to attempt to hold it--facts that are probably known to a number of people in his inner circle at least.[19] Kadyrov’s direct attack on Lapin is thus an indirect attack on Putin, whether Kadyrov realizes it or not. Putin and his mouthpieces have been extremely tight-lipped about the performance of the military commanders or their replacements, which makes Kadyrov’s statement and Prigozhin’s echo of it especially noteworthy.
*Putin likely recognizes the dangerous path Kadyrov and Prigozhin had begun to walk, prompting push-back by Kremlin-controlled voices and milbloggers against the direct critiques of military commanders. *Federal television channels characterized Kadyrov’s statements against Lapin as rather “harsh,” while milbloggers argued that the Russian MoD is more responsible for the defeat claiming that Lapin was not in command of the Lyman garrison.[20]
*Putin has not previously censored nationalist milblogger figures, Kadyrov, war correspondents, and former proxy officials, likely because he has seen them as voices pushing for his preferred policies that Russians willing to support him are more likely to trust. *ISW has previously assessed that Putin is likely attempting to keep the milbloggers on his side and to use them to establish new scapegoats for his failures in Ukraine.[21] Putin may also have obtained a more unvarnished view of what is occurring on the frontlines than he was getting from the chain of command, which may be one of the reasons he met with the milbloggers in mid-June. Milbloggers likely have a reputation with their audiences of being more accurate sources than the Russian MoD because they report setbacks and mistakes while advancing pro-war and patriotic views. Putin likely seeks to retain the favor of the audience these nationalist figures reach as they promote his grandiose vision for the war.
*The milblogger community may begin to undermine Putin’s narratives to his core audience amidst the defeats and failures of the Russian war in Ukraine, however, especially as their narratives spread to mainstream Kremlin-controlled outlets. *Milbloggers are increasingly appearing on Russian state television and in Kremlin-affiliated outlets following the collapse of the Kharkiv frontline and are boldly pointing out failures in the Russian military campaign while exaggerating the need for Russia to win the war and the price Russians should be prepared to pay.[22] Putin likely attempted to win back some of the milbloggers by inviting them to his annexation speech in Moscow and by integrating them into the mainstream media.[23] But mibloggers are fueling impossible expectations and making demands that Putin and the Russian government cannot possibly meet. They insist that Putin seize all of Ukraine when Russian forces are only capable of making incremental territorial gains around Bakhmut and Avdiivka. They are calling on Russian military recruitment centers and the Russian MoD to fix the generational bureaucratic issues plaguing partial mobilization. They are likely adding to the domestic problems Putin will face in the coming months, however much it may seem to Putin that they are helping him through a hard time.
*Putin may be experiencing an odd variant of the problems Mikhail Gorbachev encountered resulting from his glasnost’ (openness) policy. *Gorbachev partially opened the Soviet information space in the mid-1980s in the hopes that Soviet citizens would give him insight into the causes of bureaucratic dysfunction within the Soviet state that he could not identify from above. But Soviet citizens did not stop where Gorbachev wanted or expected them to and instead began attacking the entire Soviet system. The reforms (_perestroika_) he initiated after a period of _glasnost’ _ended up destroying the Soviet Union rather than strengthening it.
Putin is no doubt fully aware of this pattern and surely has no intention of repeating it. He has never established Soviet-level degrees of control over the Russian information space even as he has steadily narrowed it to only platforms he tolerates. He has absolved the milbloggers of having to adhere to Kremlin-approved narratives while keeping open the platform on which they present to a core constituency on which he relies, and he is now mainstreaming them further. It remains to be seen how much Putin will tolerate and what will happen if and when he attempts to shut down the milbloggers and their critiques, increasingly of his own decisions, that he has allowed for the moment to circulate in Russia.
*Key inflections in ongoing military operations on October 2:*

*Ukrainian forces continued to liberate settlements east and northeast of Lyman and have liberated Torske in Donetsk Oblast. Russian sources claimed that Russian forces withdrew from their positions northeast of Lyman, likely to positions around Kreminna* *and along the R66 Svatove-Kreminna highway.[24]*
*Ukrainian forces continued to advance on settlements east of Kupyansk and liberated Kisharivka in Kharkiv Oblast.[25]*
*Russian forces continued to launch unsuccessful assaults around Bakhmut, Vyimka, and Avdiivka.[26]*
*Ukrainian forces resumed counteroffensives in northern Kherson Oblast and have secured positions in Zolota Balka and Khreshchenivka. Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces also liberated Shevchekivka and Lyubymivka, pushing Russian forces to new defensive positions around Mykailivka.[27]*
*Russian forces continued to target Kryvyi Rih and Mykolaiv Oblast with Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones.[28]*
*Russian State Duma MPs withdrew a law that would have given mobilized men a one-time payment of 300,000 rubles (about $4,980) and other benefits, without providing a reason for their decision.[29] Ukrainian military officials stated that Russian forces are forming a motorized rifle division with mobilized men from Crimea, Krasnodar Krai, and the Republic of Adygea.[30]*
*Russian President Vladimir Putin submitted a draft law to the State Duma on admitting the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics, and Zaporizhia and Kherson Oblasts, to the Russian Federation.[31]*

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## RescueRanger

Meanwhile.... You know the special operation is kaput when they've had to mobilise Putin's stunt double 🤣

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577094139006418945


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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> After annexation Russia can deploy conscripts. Russian law forbids deploying conscripts on foreign soil.
> 
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/politics/1516715


Its hard to read sarcasm in type so I have to assume this is a joke. You think Putin, the guy that alternated between him and Medev to give Russian population the ultimate leader he thought they deserved, he had to have a legal justification to get conscripts ready?

The annexation was more to show his population that he accomplised something , right before more defeat started. Conscription is taking place because he is out mercanaries, professional soldiers, and eventually prisoners



Enigma SIG said:


> The ones who should learn are busy buying US franchises and investing in DHA.


I finally got it. Don't forget, they are also busy importing the one luxury car permitted

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Only difference is Russia has 4 times population advantage over Ukraine. 151 million compared to 36 million.


There you go. With your low contribution, bringing down the IQ on this forum. Is this all you can think of? mm of shells on paper and population?

China-Japan: larger population, occupied
China-Vietnam: larger population, no victory
USSR-Afghan: larger population, sure defeat

If after this war, your ability to think logicially improves by 1%, that will be an accomplishment



ziaulislam said:


> They also have large fleet of high altitude bombers with a lot of dumb bombs and a lot of dumb ICBM.
> 
> It may change to Syrian style carnage..if that happens it will be very unpopular at home..
> 
> It won't go nuclear it will go carnage first


You think like Putin , and don't take that as a complement: just because in Syria, both Syrian Govt and Russia had a small guerilla army on the run that was not a near adversary and had no international support, and only small arms weapons, that this situation will arise here. 

Even the talk of nuclear in your own post should indicate that Russia is close to exhausting all options and now may consider it. Its defeated if conversation leads to nuclear.



925boy said:


> so US that had every tool at its disposal and lost in Iraq and Afghanistan will win against Russia? Is that the logic you believe in? lmaooo...reality will wake up up eventually, i promise you that.


Pathetic: you are still living in the the world of a decade ago? Wake up , time has moved on and for sure see the title of this thread. You had no value by hiding Putins' humiliation by bringing examples of past defeats. We are living in the present and this is why 5-6 pages get added to this thread daily. We are not living on 2010 or 2005 or any other era

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> But US is already sharing money and ammunition from national stocks with Ukraine currently, so its not only "intel" US is sharing in this NATO-initiated war.
> 
> Many countries can beat US in a war, afterall Afghanistan and Iraq did, but main issue is that these countries dont want to have their entire country destroyed via war crimes just to prove they can beat US. Also, that doesnt even mean Russia can beat US in a war, and i didnt claim that as my point either. lol
> 
> But US IS already in a war with Russia, just indirectly, so stop with your bulsht semantics- war is war, indirect or direct, its still war, you think Putin is making nuke threats because US "isnt involved in the Ukraine war"? get over it, or stop manipulating- US is fully involved in the Ukraine war, period.
> 
> then how did Afghanistan and Iraq stand a chance and win?


blah blah blah... l

When your system is corrupt to the core, this is the sort of misfired can occur. Wrong lists to mobilize. Stealing grain and going to great lenghts to cover it to sell it as Russian origin grain in Lebanon.

This reminds me when Iraqis back a few years ago had ISIS breathing down them and outside of Baghdad. Because Iraqi generals were corrupt, had phantom units that they were paying from US Dollars but pocketing the money.









Half of mobilised men in Russian region sent home, commissar fired, governor says


The military commissar of Russia's Khabarovsk region was removed from his post after half of the newly mobilised personnel were sent home as they did not meet the draft criteria, the region's governor said early on Monday.




www.reuters.com





Half of mobilised men in Russian region sent home, commissar fired - governor
(Reuters) - The military commissar of Russia’s Khabarovsk region was removed from his post after half of the newly mobilised personnel were sent home as they did not meet the draft criteria, the region’s governor said early on Monday.
Russia’s first mobilisation since World War Two, declared by President Vladimir Putin on Sept. 21, has led to widespread discontent among officials and citizens over the way the draft has been handled, including complaints about enlistment officers sending call-up papers to clearly ineligible men. [
“In 10 days, several thousand of our countrymen received summons and arrived at the military registration and enlistment offices,” Mikhail Degtyarev, the governor of the Khabarovsk region in Russia’s Far East, said in a video post on the Telegram messaging app.
“About half of them we returned home as they did not meet the selection criteria for entering the military service.”
Degtyarev said the removal of the commissar, Yuri Laiko, would not affect the mobilisation plan set by Putin.
The chaotic mobilisation of men to fight in Ukraine has also prompted thousands of fighting-age men to flee from the country to avoid a draft that was billed as enlisting those with military experience and specialities but has often appeared oblivious to service records, health, student status and even age.
Some 2,000 people have been arrested at anti-war protests in more than 30 towns and cities, and some of them promptly given call-up papers - something the Kremlin said was perfectly legal.
Reporting in Melbourne by Lidia Kelly; Editing by Robert Birsel On Monday, October 3, 2022, 7:10 AM, Taimur Khan <taimur_khan1@yahoo.com> wrote:

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## aviator_fan

Now the internal blame game begins. Everybody is a genius in retrospect. This is the equivalent of the big hedge fund hot shots who made billions with the US lose monetary policy for 2 years blaming the fed for raising the rates.










Russia's war machine faces ridicule from two Putin allies


The withdrawal of Russian forces from a strategically important town in eastern Ukraine has prompted two powerful allies of President Vladimir Putin to do something rare in modern Russia: publicly ridicule the war machine's top brass.




www.reuters.com






Russia's war machine faces ridicule from two Putin allies​By Guy Faulconbridge
and Felix Light













1/3
Russian President Vladimir Putin makes his annual New Year address to the nation in Moscow, Russia December 31, 2021. Kremlin.ru/via REUTERS




Summary

Chechen leader Kadyrov scolds top generals
Prigozhin: top brass should fight on front
Russian state television subdued

LONDON, Oct 3 (Reuters) - The withdrawal of Russian forces from a strategically important town in eastern Ukraine has prompted two powerful allies of President Vladimir Putin to do something rare in modern Russia: publicly ridicule the war machine's top brass.

Russia's loss of the bastion of Lyman, which puts western parts of Luhansk region under threat, touched a nerve for Ramzan Kadyrov, the leader of the southern Russian republic of Chechnya.

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Kadyrov, who has been close to Putin since his father and former president of Chechnya, Akhmad, was killed in a 2004 bomb attack in Grozny that also killed a Reuters photographer, suggested that Russia should consider using a small tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine in response to the loss.

The nuclear warning caught the headlines, but his public scorn for Russia's top generals may have been just as significant in a Russia where public criticism of the war effort from within the top echelons of the elite has been taboo.

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"Nepotism in the army will lead to no good," Kadyrov said, adding that the commander of Russian forces in the area should be stripped of his medals and sent to the front line with a gun to wash away his shame with blood.

Such public contempt for the generals running Russia's war is significant because it indicates the level of frustration within Putin's elite over the conduct of the war while also piercing the Kremlin's carefully controlled narrative.

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Kadyrov, who supports the war and has sent many of his own Chechen units to fight, said his criticism was the bitter truth about a Russian fighting force which he said allowed talentless mediocrities to let down the country.

The defence ministry did not respond to a request for comment. Russian officials say the history of Russian warfare shows that fighting often begins badly until the military can be properly organised. Writing off Russia, they say, is a poor bet.

Asked about Kadyrov's remarks on Monday, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said: "This is a very emotional moment."

"The heads of regions have the right to express their point of view," Peskov told reporters. "Even at difficult moments, emotions should still be excluded from any assessments."

SETBACKS​More than seven months into a war that has killed tens of thousands and triggered the biggest confrontation with the West since the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, even Russia's most basic war aims are far from achieved.

The vast army of a former superpower has been humbled on the field of battle by a much smaller Ukrainian force backed up with weapons, intelligence and advice from Western powers led by the United States.

In a fresh setback for Moscow on Monday, a Russian-installed official confirmed Ukrainian advances along the west bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson region in southern Ukraine, one of four regions Putin claimed last week to have annexed.

The defeats in Ukraine could undermine Putin, said Tatiana Stanovaya, non-resident scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

"Until September, the Russian elites had made the pragmatic choice to support Putin as a guarantor against defeat," said Stanovaya

"But matters have progressed so far that they may now have to choose among various losing scenarios. That makes Putin far more vulnerable, for he may just find that he and the elites settle on different scenarios."

Putin accuses the West of trying to use Ukraine to destroy Russia itself but says that Moscow will prevail in its "special military operation" there.

In an emotional interview with a pro-Kremlin radio host on Saturday, Andrey Gurulyov, a retired general and member of the State Duma from Putin's United Russia Party said he could not explain the fall of Lyman. He then said troops defending the town had been doomed by "a system ... of constant lying" that saw problems inside Russia's military covered up by superiors.

On Russian state television, humility appeared to be seeping into the usual jingoistic rhetoric.

"I'd really like us to attack Kyiv and take it tomorrow, but I'm aware that the partial mobilisation will take time," presenter Vladimir Solovyov said on Rossiya 1 state television.

"For a certain period of time, things won't be easy for us. We shouldn't be expecting good news right now."

TOP BRASS​Chechnya's Kadyrov said he had raised the possibility of a defeat at Lyman two weeks ago with Valery Gerasimov, chief of Russia's general staff, but that Gerasimov had dismissed the idea.

Gerasimov, 67, is the third most powerful man in the Russian military after Putin and Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu. Shoigu landed Gerasimov the top military job just a few days after he was appointed defence minister in 2012.

"I do not know what the defence ministry reports to the supreme commander-in-chief (Putin), but in my personal opinion, more drastic measures should be taken," said Kadyrov, who shed tears for the fallen at a ceremony in the Kremlin last week at which Russia formally annexed the four Ukrainian regions.

Asked about Kadyrov's remarks, the powerful founder of the Wagner Group of mercenaries, Yevgeny Prigozhin, congratulated the Chechen leader.

"Ramzan - you rock man!" Prigozhin, known as Putin's chef due to his company's Kremlin catering contracts, said in a statement. "All these bastards should be sent barefoot to the front with automatic guns."

When asked if his words should be considered criticism of the defence ministry, Prigozhin doused his reply with irony: "God forbid".

"These statements are not criticism, but merely a manifestation of love and support," said Prigozhin, who the United States says runs a mercenary army that has dabbled in conflicts in Africa and in Syria.

"I, and Ramzan Akhmatovich even more so, are the most cultured of people," Prigozhin said, using Kadyrov's patronymic as a sign of respect.

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## alimobin memon

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 884461
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lmao
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1576993698914611200?s=20&t=sPeXXDLILrFnYQJyHglvoQ


Never make fun of the enemy.


----------



## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile.... You know the special operation is kaput when they've had to mobilise Putin's stunt double 🤣
> 
> View attachment 884504
> 
> 
> View attachment 884500
> 
> 
> View attachment 884501
> 
> 
> View attachment 884502
> 
> 
> View attachment 884503



Great find, Lol.

The Russian army reputation and image is in tatters, and will never recover from this.

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## PakFactor

aviator_fan said:


> There you go. With your low contribution, bringing down the IQ on this forum. Is this all you can think of? mm of shells on paper and population?
> 
> China-Japan: larger population, occupied
> China-Vietnam: larger population, no victory
> USSR-Afghan: larger population, sure defeat
> 
> If after this war, your ability to think logicially improves by 1%, that will be an accomplishment
> 
> 
> You think like Putin , and don't take that as a complement: just because in Syria, both Syrian Govt and Russia had a small guerilla army on the run that was not a near adversary and had no international support, and only small arms weapons, that this situation will arise here.
> 
> Even the talk of nuclear in your own post should indicate that Russia is close to exhausting all options and now may consider it. Its defeated if conversation leads to nuclear.
> 
> 
> Pathetic: you are still living in the the world of a decade ago? Wake up , time has moved on and for sure see the title of this thread. You had no value by hiding Putins' humiliation by bringing examples of past defeats. We are living in the present and this is why 5-6 pages get added to this thread daily. We are not living on 2010 or 2005 or any other era



I'm still trying to see how US was defeated according to that Iranian poster. I mean, the Americans destroyed and occupied and killed with impunity. If they had left, their objectives would have changed new threats arose, but they did not lose.

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> Now the internal blame game begins. Everybody is a genius in retrospect. This is the equivalent of the big hedge fund hot shots who made billions with the US lose monetary policy for 2 years blaming the fed for raising the rates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's war machine faces ridicule from two Putin allies
> 
> 
> The withdrawal of Russian forces from a strategically important town in eastern Ukraine has prompted two powerful allies of President Vladimir Putin to do something rare in modern Russia: publicly ridicule the war machine's top brass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's war machine faces ridicule from two Putin allies​By Guy Faulconbridge
> and Felix Light
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1/3
> Russian President Vladimir Putin makes his annual New Year address to the nation in Moscow, Russia December 31, 2021. Kremlin.ru/via REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Summary
> Chechen leader Kadyrov scolds top generals
> Prigozhin: top brass should fight on front
> Russian state television subdued
> 
> LONDON, Oct 3 (Reuters) - The withdrawal of Russian forces from a strategically important town in eastern Ukraine has prompted two powerful allies of President Vladimir Putin to do something rare in modern Russia: publicly ridicule the war machine's top brass.
> 
> Russia's loss of the bastion of Lyman, which puts western parts of Luhansk region under threat, touched a nerve for Ramzan Kadyrov, the leader of the southern Russian republic of Chechnya.
> 
> Advertisement · Scroll to continue
> 
> Kadyrov, who has been close to Putin since his father and former president of Chechnya, Akhmad, was killed in a 2004 bomb attack in Grozny that also killed a Reuters photographer, suggested that Russia should consider using a small tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine in response to the loss.
> 
> The nuclear warning caught the headlines, but his public scorn for Russia's top generals may have been just as significant in a Russia where public criticism of the war effort from within the top echelons of the elite has been taboo.
> 
> Latest Updates​
> Polish foreign minister signs diplomatic note to Germany on WW2 reparations
> Russian TV protester listed as wanted fugitive
> Bosnian elections entrench splits but foreign policy tips West
> Four bodies recovered, 29 missing from boat rescued off Spain's Canary Islands
> "Nepotism in the army will lead to no good," Kadyrov said, adding that the commander of Russian forces in the area should be stripped of his medals and sent to the front line with a gun to wash away his shame with blood.
> 
> Such public contempt for the generals running Russia's war is significant because it indicates the level of frustration within Putin's elite over the conduct of the war while also piercing the Kremlin's carefully controlled narrative.
> 
> Advertisement · Scroll to continue
> 
> Kadyrov, who supports the war and has sent many of his own Chechen units to fight, said his criticism was the bitter truth about a Russian fighting force which he said allowed talentless mediocrities to let down the country.
> 
> The defence ministry did not respond to a request for comment. Russian officials say the history of Russian warfare shows that fighting often begins badly until the military can be properly organised. Writing off Russia, they say, is a poor bet.
> 
> Asked about Kadyrov's remarks on Monday, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said: "This is a very emotional moment."
> 
> "The heads of regions have the right to express their point of view," Peskov told reporters. "Even at difficult moments, emotions should still be excluded from any assessments."
> 
> SETBACKS​More than seven months into a war that has killed tens of thousands and triggered the biggest confrontation with the West since the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, even Russia's most basic war aims are far from achieved.
> 
> The vast army of a former superpower has been humbled on the field of battle by a much smaller Ukrainian force backed up with weapons, intelligence and advice from Western powers led by the United States.
> 
> In a fresh setback for Moscow on Monday, a Russian-installed official confirmed Ukrainian advances along the west bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson region in southern Ukraine, one of four regions Putin claimed last week to have annexed.
> 
> The defeats in Ukraine could undermine Putin, said Tatiana Stanovaya, non-resident scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
> 
> "Until September, the Russian elites had made the pragmatic choice to support Putin as a guarantor against defeat," said Stanovaya
> 
> "But matters have progressed so far that they may now have to choose among various losing scenarios. That makes Putin far more vulnerable, for he may just find that he and the elites settle on different scenarios."
> 
> Putin accuses the West of trying to use Ukraine to destroy Russia itself but says that Moscow will prevail in its "special military operation" there.
> 
> In an emotional interview with a pro-Kremlin radio host on Saturday, Andrey Gurulyov, a retired general and member of the State Duma from Putin's United Russia Party said he could not explain the fall of Lyman. He then said troops defending the town had been doomed by "a system ... of constant lying" that saw problems inside Russia's military covered up by superiors.
> 
> On Russian state television, humility appeared to be seeping into the usual jingoistic rhetoric.
> 
> "I'd really like us to attack Kyiv and take it tomorrow, but I'm aware that the partial mobilisation will take time," presenter Vladimir Solovyov said on Rossiya 1 state television.
> 
> "For a certain period of time, things won't be easy for us. We shouldn't be expecting good news right now."
> 
> TOP BRASS​Chechnya's Kadyrov said he had raised the possibility of a defeat at Lyman two weeks ago with Valery Gerasimov, chief of Russia's general staff, but that Gerasimov had dismissed the idea.
> 
> Gerasimov, 67, is the third most powerful man in the Russian military after Putin and Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu. Shoigu landed Gerasimov the top military job just a few days after he was appointed defence minister in 2012.
> 
> "I do not know what the defence ministry reports to the supreme commander-in-chief (Putin), but in my personal opinion, more drastic measures should be taken," said Kadyrov, who shed tears for the fallen at a ceremony in the Kremlin last week at which Russia formally annexed the four Ukrainian regions.
> 
> Asked about Kadyrov's remarks, the powerful founder of the Wagner Group of mercenaries, Yevgeny Prigozhin, congratulated the Chechen leader.
> 
> "Ramzan - you rock man!" Prigozhin, known as Putin's chef due to his company's Kremlin catering contracts, said in a statement. "All these bastards should be sent barefoot to the front with automatic guns."
> 
> When asked if his words should be considered criticism of the defence ministry, Prigozhin doused his reply with irony: "God forbid".
> 
> "These statements are not criticism, but merely a manifestation of love and support," said Prigozhin, who the United States says runs a mercenary army that has dabbled in conflicts in Africa and in Syria.
> 
> "I, and Ramzan Akhmatovich even more so, are the most cultured of people," Prigozhin said, using Kadyrov's patronymic as a sign of respect.


That's the problem now Putin is facing. 

The hawk part of Russia wants more blood, and Putin wasn't delivering to them in battlefield. 

The liberal part of Russia want less action, and Putin draft did not do any good on it. 

Now basically everyone is on his tail right now. He can't please both sides, that's a very big problem.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> That's the problem now Putin is facing.
> 
> The hawk part of Russia wants more blood, and Putin wasn't delivering to them in battlefield.
> 
> The liberal part of Russia want less action, and Putin draft did not do any good on it.
> 
> Now basically everyone is on his tail right now. He can't please both sides, that's a very big problem.


Putin is a victim of his own propagandaZ.
Russia army performance is terrible, far below expectation. Ukraine military excels far above most western military observers. I hope he realizes it and work out a face saving retreat.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin is a victim of his own propagandaZ.
> Russia army performance is terrible, far below expectation. Ukraine military excels far above most western military observers. I hope he realizes it and work out a face saving retreat.


Problem is Ukraine aren't going to let him save face.

Ukraine tasted blood and they think they can take on Russia, why wont you be? You have survived what the best Russian can throw at you in term of men, resource and equipment and then you made gain, would anyone (Other than the brainwashed bunch) really think the mobilisation can do what the Prime troop cannot? The chance for Russia turn the battlefield fortune now is almost zero, there are still chances but the chances of me hitting the lotto is probably bigger than the chance this motley army can turn the battlefield around.

Now if he go either way to please either side, it's going to be a straight piss off on the other side, he escalated more, that mean use nuke, how would the liberal Russia part would take it? If he back down, then how would the hawk part of Russia take it?

That's worse than Hitler, at lease he don't have a liberal anti-war part of Germany (or not at all much) during WW2....

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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> Putin is a victim of his own propagandaZ.
> Russia army performance is terrible, far below expectation. Ukraine military excels far above most western military observers. I hope he realizes it and work out a face saving retreat.



A video now on Russian social media was filmed by one of the mobilized who was sent to Omsk. They spend days & nights in the open field, eating only what they brought with them & drinking vodka. No command, no uniform, no barracks, no tents, no sleeping bags.



alimobin memon said:


> Never make fun of the enemy.



When you have no restriction on the amount of "volunteers" it doesn't matter how many you loose - WW2 taught us that, many Russians didn't even have a gun when sent to the front - life is cheap in the motherland it payed off they beat Germans !

Ukraine ?

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## RescueRanger

Well if the ticker from AP is accurate Putin just lost 31 MBTs and an MRLS outside of Kherson 🤣

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Problem is Ukraine aren't going to let him save face.
> 
> Ukraine tasted blood and they think they can take on Russia, why wont you be? You have survived what the best Russian can throw at you in term of men, resource and equipment and then you made gain, would anyone (Other than the brainwashed bunch) really think the mobilisation can do what the Prime troop cannot? The chance for Russia turn the battlefield fortune now is almost zero, there are still chances but the chances of me hitting the lotto is probably bigger than the chance this motley army can turn the battlefield around.
> 
> Now if he go either way to please either side, it's going to be a straight piss off on the other side, he escalated more, that mean use nuke, how would the liberal Russia part would take it? If he back down, then how would the hawk part of Russia take it?
> 
> That's worse than Hitler, at lease he don't have a liberal anti-war part of Germany (or not at all much) during WW2....


One thing is weird. What is behind Russia logic to assault Bakhmut again and again? 3 months now without success. Putin now commits 2 elite regiments to the Bakhmut. He wants to take the city at all cost. Why focusing on Bakhmut, while the other sectors are crumbling.







Stadt an der Front: „Die Russen wollen Bachmut mit aller Gewalt einnehmen“
Quelle: RICARDO GARCIA VILANOVA









Bachmut: Die Stadt, die Putins Truppen um jeden Preis einnehmen wollen - WELT


Nachdem die russische Armee sich aus Lyman zurückgezogen hat, dürften die Angriffe auf Bachmut zunehmen. Dass der Kreml gleich zwei seiner Eliteeinheiten hier einsetzt, zeigt, wie wichtig die Stadt für den Kriegsverlauf ist. Unsere Reporter vor Ort erklären, worauf es nun ankommt.




www.welt.de


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## Broccoli

kingQamaR said:


> A video now on Russian social media was filmed by one of the mobilized who was sent to Omsk. They spend days & nights in the open field, eating only what they brought with them & drinking vodka. No command, no uniform, no barracks, no tents, no sleeping bags.
> 
> 
> 
> When you have no restriction on the amount of "volunteers" it doesn't matter how many you loose - WW2 taught us that, many Russians didn't even have a gun when sent to the front - life is cheap in the motherland it payed off they beat Germans !
> 
> Ukraine ?



You forgot massive help from Lend-Lease what Soviets got in WW II... is someone going to give Russians 300.000 trucks and jeeps this time?

Russians have around 6,5 million people over 20 year old. When war begun at least 500.000 left, that includes many IT specialists, trained workers, university graduates and now after mobilization up to 350.000 young people, mostly men, of same category have left. Now think what that does to their economy and society. Then you add tens of thousands dead and wounded 20-30 year old who'm Russia has lost in Ukraine. 

Putin is literally destroying Russian military and Russias future.

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## zectech

US repeat performance with Putler






*The Rockefeller Foundation helped found the German eugenics program and even funded the program that Josef Mengele worked in before he went to Auschwitz.*






The Horrifying American Roots of Nazi Eugenics | History News Network







historynewsnetwork.org





How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power​








How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power


Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president.




www.theguardian.com





a coincidence that the bush family is a cia family. The difference between then and now, is then, they wanted to put Germany on max and crash Germany and keep Germany down. Hitler was the tool to vilify Germans as "evil", who should not have a military because "they are Germans". Putler is backed by the cia cronies because Putler is Entente, so is planned to defeat Europe to keep Germany down. Both Russia and US have the common enemy in three European wars.

There are 400 tons of documents that show the US corporations and other US parties involved in promoting the rise of Hitler and funding the Nazi war and aiding Hitler.


----------



## Viet

zectech said:


> US repeat performance with Putler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The Rockefeller Foundation helped found the German eugenics program and even funded the program that Josef Mengele worked in before he went to Auschwitz.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Horrifying American Roots of Nazi Eugenics | History News Network
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> historynewsnetwork.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power
> 
> 
> Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a coincidence that the bush family is a cia family. The difference between then and now, is then, they wanted to put Germany on max and crash Germany and keep Germany down. Hitler was the tool to vilify Germans as "evil", who should not have a military because "they are Germans". Putler is backed by the cia cronies because Putler is Entente, so is planned to defeat Europe to keep Germany down. Both Russia and US have the common enemy in three European wars.
> 
> There are 400 tons of documents that show the US corporations and other US parties involved in promoting the rise of Hitler and funding the Nazi war and aiding Hitler.


Stalin did terrible terror on Ukraine population. Why not post the story? That explains why Ukrainans are resentful they dislike the Russians. Same feeling for almost east European countries and ex Soviet states.

This Putin terror on Ukraine will create hatred for another 100y.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Now basically everyone is on his tail right now. He can't please both sides, that's a very big problem.



My analysis is that RU establishment, well, doesn't care. Yeltsin had 6% approval rating, but this did not preclude him fighting wars, and winning the 2nd election (which was, at the time, fair, and genuine)

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> One thing is weird. What is behind Russia logic to assault Bakhmut again and again? 3 months now without success. Putin now commits 2 elite regiments to the Bakhmut. He wants to take the city at all cost. Why focusing on Bakhmut, while the other sectors are crumbling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stadt an der Front: „Die Russen wollen Bachmut mit aller Gewalt einnehmen“
> Quelle: RICARDO GARCIA VILANOVA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bachmut: Die Stadt, die Putins Truppen um jeden Preis einnehmen wollen - WELT
> 
> 
> Nachdem die russische Armee sich aus Lyman zurückgezogen hat, dürften die Angriffe auf Bachmut zunehmen. Dass der Kreml gleich zwei seiner Eliteeinheiten hier einsetzt, zeigt, wie wichtig die Stadt für den Kriegsverlauf ist. Unsere Reporter vor Ort erklären, worauf es nun ankommt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.welt.de


To be honest with you? I don't know........

Whatever Russian did since July does not really mean much sense. Conventionally, if they were drag on for a month and didn't take a town, they should just move on, by-pass it and attack the center of gravity of the area, Ukraine did that, Russia did not, take Sieverodonetsk for example, any conventional military will tell you if you go around Popasna and attack Lysychansk from the South (which is what the Russian eventually did, after grinding for 100 days), yet they dump man and resource and get into a grinding battle which in my opinion is the reason why Ukrainian can save up men and launch that Kharkiv Counter offensive in the first place. But let's go back to May first, what they did was defy military logic, simply put, you just don't do that. 

What that do is it let the Ukrainian improve their defensive position elsewhere in Donbas, which is why the Russia try to crack Bakhmut for 3 months, almost going to 4th (They broke thru Lysychansk in July 4 and start the Bakhmut push on the 8th. )

So what do Russian think they can achieve? I would say Russia, most likely Putin, because for all account he is calling the shot right now. Putin has a disconnect from the battlefield, he is expecting something that won't happen to happen. There are several reason behind this. Range from he really think things can change in the battle field, the Svatove line is going to hold and the entire Northern Luhansk will not fold, Kherson will hold and everything will be A-OK so he continue the attack in Bakhmut? Or he is thinking he can stop the bleeding by either threaten nuke or whatever after the annexation and then he try to grab as much land as he could? Or simply he is punishing the people ion the field and see it as their fault and have them achieve the objective that him set out, no matter the cost. 

Problem is, all those ways of thinking have a very serious disconnect from the actual situation, sure, if you are an Russian Fan on PDF, that won't do much, but if you are THE OVERALL commander of the Russian Force in the field, that would be a problem. First of all, Ukraine has COMPLETELY retook Kharkiv, all the kharkiv oblast EAST of Oksil river are now under Ukrainian control. Which mean we can literally draw a line from Kuipansk down to Lyman and that line have 18 different battle hardened Ukrainian brigade on the front line facing Russian troop between Troitske, Svatove to Kreminna . Sure, not all those 18 Brigade are going to be used for the offensive. But even if they leave half behind. only use 9 for a general push, that still overwhelming manpower to the Russian line. Because Russian at most have 5 Regiment holding that line. And that is before Lyman fall, so you are talking about 5 Understrength regiment. On the other hand, Ukraine probably only need 6 to 8 Brigade to held back, so you are talking about 5 Understrength Regiment (around 25000 men) facing off against 10 or 11 Brigade (around 45000 men)






There are NO HOLDING the line, in fact, military analyst expects the entire line is going to fill with hole for Ukrainian to exploit. And the South didn't fare very well now either, because the months of isolation is now taking the toll, as I said, I would consider Russia lucky to still hold Kherson after this Winter. 

This is the actual situation in Ukraine right now. Yet Putin despite all that, continue to attack Bakhmut. As I said, I can't figure out why. Maybe he truely believe once the mobilising troop start flooding in, it would be better? I don't know, but I will say I have a better chance hitting the next lotto and win millions than that would happen? But hey, you never know, never say never....lol



Paul2 said:


> My analysis is that RU establishment, well, doesn't care. Yeltsin had 6% approval rating, but this did not preclude him fighting wars, and winning the 2nd election (which was, at the time, fair, and genuine)


Well, at least Yeltsin had won that war, instead of getting into the jam like Putin did this time. On the other hand, that war Yeltsin fought put Putin in his position, i am thinking would this war do the same, and who is the next Putin??

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577212725339754496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577213584420937728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577220111509131265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577219849268252672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577202446845513728







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577175300315615233

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577212725339754496
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577213584420937728
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577220111509131265
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577219849268252672
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577202446845513728
> View attachment 884548
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577175300315615233


That sounded like an excuse to me. 

I mean what do the Russian expect the Ukrainian to fight. Using tech and tactics from the 70s? I mean if they expect Ukrainian do not have network centric capability, that's big fat failure for Russian military.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And you are not competent enough to be able to create an argument after that?
> That must be a miserable situation.


and you failed to show a single thing that eu was supposed to do and actually come to effect in practice , all was talks no action at all , no effects at all


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## jhungary

Ukraine M113 in actions.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577213812453040128

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> who is the next Putin



I do not expect a rat race for the throne.

If there are still "red genes" left in them, leading figures will come together for a conclave, and divide power in between them — a low risk option vs. risking everything in a failed bid for supreme power. I don't see any of them having balls for that, since if any of them had them, they would've tried already.

Beijing think tanks say Jiriyenko, Shanghai sides with Mishustin.

I myself think they will be just technocrat figureheads backed by somebody commanding real force with a private army, like Kadirov, Prigozhin, or even two together.

So, it will be a rehash of surnames most people hear in the news, but the ultimate nature of the self-preservation interested regime will not change.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577222438961631232

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577231466228240386

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577231154788192257

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I do not expect a rat race for the throne.
> 
> If there are still "red genes" left in them, leading figures will come together for a conclave, and divide power in between them — a low risk option vs. risking everything in a failed bid for supreme power. I don't see any of them having balls for that, since if any of them had them, they would've tried already.
> 
> Beijing think tanks say Jiriyenko, Shanghai sides with Mishustin.
> 
> I myself think they will be just technocrat figureheads backed by somebody commanding real force with a private army, like Kadirov, Prigozhin, or even two together.
> 
> So, it will be a rehash of surnames most people hear in the news, but the ultimate nature of the self-preservation interested regime will not change.


There were 1 guy stand out, I forgot what's his name. But was mentioned in some report as the go-to guy to succeed Putin. Need to go back and look for those report. 

On the other hand, if and when the next guy take over, whether or not it will be more hawkish than Putin, I can surely say Putin and Co will probably not going to end up in a good way, the new guys have to blame Putin for the failure in order to settle the dust, which mean Putin, Shoigu and Medvedev are going to bore the blunt, I would not want to be either one of the 3 when the new guy take over.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577225820359503872

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577213812453040128


A few of Pro-Russia telegram channel that usually have connection to Russian Military said the Russian are to retreat back to Nova Karkovka.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577222826313936896

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577228435956514816

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## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> A few of Pro-Russia telegram channel that usually have connection to Russian Military said the Russian are to retreat back to Nova Karkovka.



Who would have thought 7 months after the start of the conflict the Russians would be on a forced retreat on many fronts..... The most worrying thing is that Kherson is actually the most fortified Russian front where Russia's best troops are located.

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> A few of Pro-Russia telegram channel that usually have connection to Russian Military said the Russian are to retreat back to Nova Karkovka.



Just a matter of time now until Khersons liberation. When the US conducted the war games with Ukraine on the Kherson and Kharkiv fronts, the Kherson front was much slower, but still liberation in the end.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577240963856363520

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Who would have thought 7 months after the start of the conflict the Russians would be on a forced retreat on many fronts..... The most worrying thing is that Kherson is actually the most fortified Russian front where Russia's best troops are located.


Well, not many Analyst (Both Western and Russian) believe Ukraine will take the city of Kherson by force, most of the military analyst worldwide are thinking of a isolation and encirclement operation on Kherson to starve the Russian in Kherson city of troop and supplies and then degrade their condition and force a surrender. 

Notice that Ukraine has enough manpower and artillery to take Kherson if they want to, there are 10 Brigade in this fight from left (Oleksandrivka) to right (Dudchany), + 3 Artillery Regiment (I believe 2 of those are HIMARS, so you have around 12 HIMARS in the area) if they want to do a "Russian Takeover" they can bombard Kherson day and night and then waltz thru after 20 or 30 days bombardment. 

But there are no sign they are doing that, and no sign of a general push toward Kherson, so I don't think they will, anyway, it's more economical that way. Ukraine already controls the high ground, all they need is for the Dudchanky force to flank ova Karkovka and then finish the encirclement.



F-22Raptor said:


> Just a matter of time now until Khersons liberation. When the US conducted the war games with Ukraine on the Kherson and Kharkiv fronts, the Kherson front was much slower, but still liberation in the end.


Yeah, there are no way Kherson is a tenable position for Russia, it's on the wrong side of the Dnieper River and putting more men in the city won't solve the problem, in fact, it will just make it worse as you make it harder to supply. Kherson is going to fold, it's just a matter of when they will give up, but I do think Ukraine would need to take some momentum, maybe do more targetted strike inside the city. That would speed things up.

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## F-22Raptor

Seeing reports Ukraine are massing forces in Vasylivka to begin its offensive towards Melitopol

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Seeing reports Ukraine are massing forces in Vasylivka to begin its offensive towards Melitopol


Think they moved 2 National Guard Bigrade and a Special Force Battalion to the region.

I don't know if they were trying to cut into Melitopol, but you don't need 4 Brigade on that line as there were already 2 TDF brigade in the area.

On the other hand, news report National Guard Brigade and Security Police regiment had moved up from Kramatosk and Sloviansk now in Drobysheve and Lyman. Which mean the Regular Brigade had moved on.

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> Just a matter of time now until Khersons liberation. When the US conducted the war games with Ukraine on the Kherson and Kharkiv fronts, the Kherson front was much slower, but still liberation in the end.


25,000 Russians are trapped with no way out. They will suffer the same taste like their comrades at Lyman. They could be at their families in warm apartment. No they rather die in a worthless racist war.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> 25,000 Russians are trapped with no way out. They will suffer the same taste like their comrades at Lyman. They could be at their families in warm apartment. No they rather die in a worthless racist war.


Probably more than 25,000 Russian now. Report suggested that Mobilised Troop were being deployed to Kherson, unless they also pull Regular Troop back, that number is going to swell.

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## TNT

James David said:


> Not that Jewish Sh*t again. Why is that that if something goes wrong it's always the Jew's fault?



Because they own most and are behind everything. Dont expect someone like u to see it lolz.


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> Seeing reports Ukraine are massing forces in Vasylivka to begin its offensive towards Melitopol



Ukraine wants to trap Russian soldiers and capture them as bargains to trade in negotiatons with Russia when this does come to talks I reckon.

Ukranian battlefield commanders are proving to be quick learners and better strategists on the battlefield compared to the Russians.


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## TNT

aviator_fan said:


> blah blah blah... l
> 
> When your system is corrupt to the core, this is the sort of misfired can occur. Wrong lists to mobilize. Stealing grain and going to great lenghts to cover it to sell it as Russian origin grain in Lebanon.
> 
> This reminds me when Iraqis back a few years ago had ISIS breathing down them and outside of Baghdad. Because Iraqi generals were corrupt, had phantom units that they were paying from US Dollars but pocketing the money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Half of mobilised men in Russian region sent home, commissar fired, governor says
> 
> 
> The military commissar of Russia's Khabarovsk region was removed from his post after half of the newly mobilised personnel were sent home as they did not meet the draft criteria, the region's governor said early on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Half of mobilised men in Russian region sent home, commissar fired - governor
> (Reuters) - The military commissar of Russia’s Khabarovsk region was removed from his post after half of the newly mobilised personnel were sent home as they did not meet the draft criteria, the region’s governor said early on Monday.
> Russia’s first mobilisation since World War Two, declared by President Vladimir Putin on Sept. 21, has led to widespread discontent among officials and citizens over the way the draft has been handled, including complaints about enlistment officers sending call-up papers to clearly ineligible men. [
> “In 10 days, several thousand of our countrymen received summons and arrived at the military registration and enlistment offices,” Mikhail Degtyarev, the governor of the Khabarovsk region in Russia’s Far East, said in a video post on the Telegram messaging app.
> “About half of them we returned home as they did not meet the selection criteria for entering the military service.”
> Degtyarev said the removal of the commissar, Yuri Laiko, would not affect the mobilisation plan set by Putin.
> The chaotic mobilisation of men to fight in Ukraine has also prompted thousands of fighting-age men to flee from the country to avoid a draft that was billed as enlisting those with military experience and specialities but has often appeared oblivious to service records, health, student status and even age.
> Some 2,000 people have been arrested at anti-war protests in more than 30 towns and cities, and some of them promptly given call-up papers - something the Kremlin said was perfectly legal.
> Reporting in Melbourne by Lidia Kelly; Editing by Robert Birsel On Monday, October 3, 2022, 7:10 AM, Taimur Khan <taimur_khan1@yahoo.com> wrote:



Pakistani generals are also really corrupt. Makes me wonder what will be the real situation of our army. There is a reason our generals are scared of war with india, would expose their corruption and incompetence.

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine wants to trap Russian soldiers and capture them as bargains to trade in negotiatons with Russia when this does come to talks I reckon.
> 
> Ukranian battlefield commanders are proving to be quick learners and better strategists on the battlefield compared to the Russians.


Actually, Ukrainian commander was not really that good if you compare to Western Commander like Colin Powell, or Ike or even Norman Schwarzkopf. In most case, their performance is actually only will get a passing grade if they are decision maker in Western Army.

Look at it this way, the Ukrainian succeed in the Kharkiv Route but failed to cut off the Russian supply and retreat line, that's a big blow to the operation because you are allowing many Russian troop to escape, and the same thing happened in Lyman, where the Ukrainian failed to block the escape tour toward Torske and instead enter the city from the East, quite a few Russian manage to escape (they numbered at less than 1000 Russian captured over 5000 there)

A Competent leader get the job done, the Ukrainian on ground leader had got the job done, however, a good leader will be able to read the situation and exploit the situation, that was not done in Ukrainian part. Which lead to the bulk of Russian force left their position intact and fight the other day. Ukrainian leadership is learning, and as time pass, they are going to get better. 

On the other hand, Russian commander are......Well, there are just one word for it. It's SHIT.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577259065549672449

Davydiv Brid is liberated!

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577254932696047616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577256807394725889

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## ZeGerman

Wow, russian lines collapsing on multiple fronts now….

Finally the kherson front is starting to crack for the russians. Hopefully they are dumb enough to pile in extra thousands of mobilised troops.
That will just add to the losses once kherson becomes unsupportable in winter.

Slava Ukraini!

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Seeing reports Ukraine are massing forces in Vasylivka to begin its offensive towards Melitopol



They did for more than a month from my observation, it's another blob of forces that nobody talked about... and for a good reason.

RUAF are very weak there, 58th army been there since the start, without any rotation, and they got depleted more by sending forces to Khesanh.

My calculation, they are just 1-1.5 division strong now due to initial losses from March, and depletion.

And we already know that RU motorized division is only 4000-5000 suitable warfighting troops. The rest are auxiliaries.

58th was supposed to be a more high readiness russian army, since they were stationed in southwest russia.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Russian lines have completely collapsed to the northeast of Kherson

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> They did for more than a month from my observation, it's another blob of forces that nobody talked about... and for a good reason.
> 
> RUAF are very weak there, 58th army been there since the start, without any rotation, and they got depleted more by sending forces to Khesanh.
> 
> My calculation, they are just 1-1.5 division strong now due to initial losses from March, and depletion.
> 
> And we already know that RU motorized division is only 4000-5000 suitable warfighting troops. The rest are auxiliaries.
> 
> 58th was supposed to be a more high readiness russian army, since they were stationed in southwest russia.


Well, I have a feeling they are going to do a Kharkiv toward Melitopol. 

There were already report Russian troop are doing defensive work in the area, If I have to guess, in the next 2 to 3 weeks, there probably will be Ukrainian "Phantom" unit materialised in that area, and once they have 6 or more Brigade inside the area, they will make a thunder run into Melitopol. 

Why 2 to 3 weeks? I am giving Kherson about 2 to 3 weeks to survive. Kherson is on the accerated-end phase right now. and once Ukrainian took Nova Karkovka, that's more or less game over for Kherson, and it will take around 2 to 3 weeks for the Ukrainian to roll over the garrison in Nova Karkova.


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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> And we already know that RU motorized division is only 4000-5000 suitable warfighting troops. The rest are auxiliaries.
> 
> 58th was supposed to be a more high readiness russian army, since they were stationed in southwest russia.



This is by the way an excellent demonstration how excess vehicles they took from the start eventually began to turn into a liability.

So many vehicles also mean having too much dead weight auxiliaries, which would've been better coming long after the spearhead force.


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## hembo

"Not Ready To Kill": Rapper, Drafted, Dies By Suicide

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Probably more than 25,000 Russian now. Report suggested that Mobilised Troop were being deployed to Kherson, unless they also pull Regular Troop back, that number is going to swell.


it said they are the best troops Moscow can field? Stalingrad moment with the deutsche Wehrmacht, the 6th. Army


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577262954960982018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577265124250787842

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## Paul2

ZeGerman said:


> That will just add to the losses once kherson becomes unsupportable in winter.



There is a nuance to this:

North of Ukraine will indeed become impassable for vehicles soon, but South will actually become more availing to mechanised combat because tilled fields will get frozen, and able to support a weight of an MBT.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> it said they are the best troops Moscow can field? Stalingrad moment with the deutsche Wehrmacht, the 6th. Army


It's quite pointless for Kherson, even if you send in the Spetsnez or any crack troop it's going to be the same, it's not a Stalingrad, it's a Siege of Port Standley.....


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Look at it this way, the Ukrainian succeed in the Kharkiv Route but failed to cut off the Russian supply and retreat line, that's a big blow to the operation because you are allowing many Russian troop to escape, and the same thing happened in Lyman



It's not like they have spare armour for that. By all accounts they did deploy ambushes on those roads, and had artillery reaching over them from the south, just not enough of it.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577272582336032770

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## Wood

Hopefully Ukraine will not outrun its own supply line


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577077588698095619

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577075931931627520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577265181679570945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577263671700774912


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> It's quite pointless for Kherson, even if you send in the Spetsnez or any crack troop it's going to be the same, it's not a Stalingrad, it's a Siege of Port Standley.....



They indeed did send crack troops to Lyman, and Izyum as reinforcements, and they just wasted them all by having them sit in trenches, waiting to be overrun by a mechanised push.

Spetsnez, not spetsnez all die if ran over by a tank.


----------



## maverick1977

The use of tactical nuke is quite a possibility within this week to the next... the world is on the edge..


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577255003848249345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577248425468645376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577238000768937984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577068420968816640

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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> They indeed did send crack troops to Lyman, and Izyum as reinforcements, and they just wasted them all by having them sit in trenches, waiting to be overrun by a mechanised push.
> 
> Spetsnez, not spetsnez all die if ran over by a tank.



This is also to counter the argument that RUAF did not react in Kharkiv.

They did, just totally wrong: too late, too early, or underreacting, or overreacting.

They sent all what they had to Kupyansk when it was already too late so save the area, but too early to defend the city.

So, their elite light infantry just sat in trenches in the forest for 2 weeks, and then had to face tank batallions flying at them at full speed, rather than trying to engage UA force on their own terms.

Them scramming from well fortified positions further East played into defeat at Lyman, by allowing AFU uncontested passage over forests, rocks, and bogs in the area.

It's UA generals outplaying their Russian counterparts in the rock, paper, scissors again.

There been very few times through this war when I felt UA being genuinely outplayed by RU, and all of that been in February (loss of the south, and succesful breakout through Crimean "chicken neck")


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576877069015085056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577145513719128064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577155105757229059

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577242951222063106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577277947664556032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577275427831549953

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## Paul2

I feen RU generals are trying to do things by the book, but their overall lack of experience, and excercise is such that they cannot even connect the dots in between the book, and situation in the field.

Few times in this war, I felt they tried to pull a page from history books, WW2 in particular, but such attempts were horridly misplaced/mistimed/too obvious.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577284878931873794

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## Broccoli

Paul2 said:


> I feen RU generals are trying to do things by the book, but their overall lack of experience, and excercise is such that they cannot even connect the dots in between the book, and situation in the field.
> 
> Few times in this war, I felt they tried to pull a page from history books, WW2 in particular, but such attempts were horridly misplaced/mistimed/too obvious.



Like all dictatorship militaries they wont do anything without ordered first, thats why you of then see Russian military doing odd things like assaulting strong defenses with few IFV's and tanks, it wont make sense but field commanders dont have any indendence to make decisions themselves. 

Many articles have been written about this issue.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577231980147576833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576971501164986368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577095706627563521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577342436531224585

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> There were 1 guy stand out, I forgot what's his name. But was mentioned in some report as the go-to guy to succeed Putin. Need to go back and look for those report.



This fellow? > https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/谢尔盖·弗拉季连诺维奇·基里延科

He is putin's man on Iran


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577278909871443968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577250682922336256

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> It's quite pointless for Kherson, even if you send in the Spetsnez or any crack troop it's going to be the same, it's not a Stalingrad, it's a Siege of Port Standley.....


No, there is no way out, Stalingrad or the siege of Malta, the question how ugly the ending. I hope the 25k Russia troops at Cherson will surrender, Putin will call the withdrawal. The war will be over end of the month. One most dangerous thing though: the nuclear threat. Putin’s the only joker he has on the table.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577228390423093248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577242405429923843

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## Viet

Russia defense lines at Kherson collapsing.

Incredible

Ukraine army has retaken 10 towns in the last 24h.

“tentacle” strategy

Attacking by multiple arm

Multiple units of Ukraine army headed by tanks followed by infantry circumvent Russia strongholds and attack the weak points, the flanks. Same tactic as Lyman, but now in larger scale.

Russia army retreating in panic.


----------



## sammuel

hembo said:


> "Not Ready To Kill": Rapper, Drafted, Dies By Suicide








~

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577292417551695872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577312186371899392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577319838250319875

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## Soldier35

The Russian PMC Wagner showed footage of the training of their assault groups. The exercise is called the "Confidence Test" since during the training of soldiers fire from military weapons is fired.






Video of a Russian Ka-52 helicopter hitting a Ukrainian T-64 tank with a Vikhr missile. The probability of destroying a tank class target with Whirlwind missiles is 80%.






The son of Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder of the Russian private military company Wagner, spoke about the battles in Ukraine in the Bakhmut direction and assessed the training of Ukrainian army soldiers.






Footage of the fall of the burning Su-24M of the Ukrainian Air Force has been published. It is not known what shot down the plane, possibly MANPADS, since two traces of missiles are visible at the beginning of the video. Before falling, the plane was attacked by two MANPADS missiles, but both missed the target.


----------



## alimobin memon

Man ukraine reports are true. Feeling worried for nuclear escalation since conventional war has brought russians down.

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## jhungary

This is how Russia retreat from Lyman



Viet said:


> No, there is no way out, Stalingrad or the siege of Malta, the question how ugly the ending. I hope the 25k Russia troops at Cherson will surrender, Putin will call the withdrawal. The war will be over end of the month. One most dangerous thing though: the nuclear threat. Putin’s the only joker he has on the table.


I can say this is going to be wishful thinking.



Paul2 said:


> This fellow? > https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/谢尔盖·弗拉季连诺维奇·基里延科
> 
> He is putin's man on Iran


Don't know.......again, saw a name in some report a few months ago when there is a rumor Putin is having assassination attempt. Maybe it is or maybe not, I don't know.


----------



## Viet

Gas price $169 today

Below the 170 mark

Looks it will crash to $100.

That will bring Russia economy to its knee.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> and you failed to show a single thing that eu was supposed to do and actually come to effect in practice , all was talks no action at all , no effects at all











EU restrictive measures against Iran


EU restrictive measures were adopted as part of an integrated policy approach to persuade Iran to comply with its international obligations.




www.consilium.europa.eu









__





Loading…






www.eeas.europa.eu





”On Implementation Day (16 January 2016), the EU lifted all its economic and financial sanctions taken in connection with the Iranian nuclear programme. As a consequence of the lifting of these sanctions, the following activities, including associated services, are allowed as of Implementation Day.
• Financial, banking and insurance measures
As of Implementation Day, it is allowed to engage in financial transfers to and from Iran. The obligation to have recourse to notification and authorisation regimes is lifted. Consequently, transfers of funds between EU persons, entities or bodies, including EU financial and credit institutions, and non-listed Iranian persons, entities or bodies, including Iranian financial and credit institutions, are permitted as of Implementation Day and the requirements for authorisation or notification of transfers of funds are no longer applicable.”


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> This is how Russia retreat from Lyman
> 
> 
> I can say this is going to be wishful thinking.
> 
> 
> Don't know.......again, saw a name in some report a few months ago when there is a rumor Putin is having assassination attempt. Maybe it is or maybe not, I don't know.



One of guys i spoke few weeks ago was put onto "scraping russian innards off captured vehicles" duty. The guy spoke too much on telegram.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Lehrasap

Where are Chechens deployed?
I want to see Ramzan Kadyrov in chains.

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## Corruptistan

Whatever you want to say, Ukrainians are tough warriors. Helps when they are fighting for their very survival. No wonder that the Russians are demoralized. They are fighting against their fellow Slavic brethren for a corrupt and incompetent Russian elite who has been blundering Russia for decades, stolen billions of USD and whose children and relatives study and live abroad in the same West that they publicly criticize.

A country the size of Russia, with all its enormous natural resources, mineral wealth, water reserves, forest cover, technological legacy of the USSR, competent people (elites) of the past etc. should have become a formidable power. Instead it has developed into a corrupt, mismanaged and decaying nation.











Russians cannot win this war and their army has been exposed as a second rate army. Remove the nukes and Russia would struggle to win a conventional war against any serious opponent.

If this turns into a nuclear-armed conflict, our very existence could be in danger. All for what, other than primitive human ego by those in power?

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> They indeed did send crack troops to Lyman, and Izyum as reinforcements, and they just wasted them all by having them sit in trenches, waiting to be overrun by a mechanised push.
> 
> Spetsnez, not spetsnez all die if ran over by a tank.


Well, they are going to freeze to death in this winter.....



Paul2 said:


> It's not like they have spare armour for that. By all accounts they did deploy ambushes on those roads, and had artillery reaching over them from the south, just not enough of it.


You can still exploit by the way you move your troop. Speed vs Maneuver, a competent commander can take one over the other, a good commander can do both. It's all about movement and how well did you plan and execute that maneuver.


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> One of guys i spoke few weeks ago was put onto "scraping russian innards off captured vehicles" duty. The guy spoke too much on telegram.



A guy I know actually trying to send a gift basket to Kremlin and thanking them for supplying the Ukrainian a lot of Russian weapons.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577174516358225920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577321318160236546

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

New weapons package for Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577343618003701760

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577338802137452544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577334920900644864


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577337552654172160


----------



## PakFactor

Khan2727 said:


> Whatever you want to say, Ukrainians are tough warriors. Helps when they are fighting for their very survival. No wonder that the Russians are demoralized. They are fighting against their fellow Slavic brethren for a corrupt and incompetent Russian elite who has been blundering Russia for decades, stolen billions of USD and whose children and relatives study and live abroad in the same West that they publicly criticize.
> 
> A country the size of Russia, with all its enormous natural resources, mineral wealth, water reserves, forest cover, technological legacy of the USSR, competent people (elites) of the past etc. should have become a formidable power. Instead it has developed into a corrupt, mismanaged and decaying nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians cannot win this war and their army has been exposed as a second rate army. Remove the nukes and Russia would struggle to win a conventional war against any serious opponent.
> 
> If this turns into a nuclear-armed conflict, our very existence could be in danger. All for what, other than primitive human ego by those in power?



This happens when you go from warrior status to building mansions, siphoning wealth outside your country, and stationing it in your enemy territory. I mean, Putin's daughters have real estate in Paris worth millions, and his close aids sent girlfriends on private planes to the US to give birth to babies to acquire US citizenship. The corruption and rot in the system do this to any nation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577352882109628416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577352492978884608


----------



## Vergennes

Note the difference between Ukrainian and Russian battle management during localized battles.....










Russian army general Lapin "leading the operations and managing the troops under his command".... Russians are simply not fit for 21st century warfare. @F-22Raptor @jhungary

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577353385140813824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577353634056110081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577310317616533504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577302573610139653

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577302617587326978

Reactions: Like Like:
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## alimobin memon

Reports coming russian forces quickly pulling back. Could be the fact that they are either ending the war themselves or clearing their forces for nuclear attack ?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

jhungary said:


> This is how Russia retreat from Lyman
> 
> 
> I can say this is going to be wishful thinking.
> 
> 
> Don't know.......again, saw a name in some report a few months ago when there is a rumor Putin is having assassination attempt. Maybe it is or maybe not, I don't know.


That’s just sad. Died for nothing. Left behind like street garbage. Nobody deserves that. Not even your worst enemy.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Note the difference between Ukrainian and Russian battle management during localized battles.....
> 
> View attachment 884683
> 
> View attachment 884685
> 
> 
> Russian army general Lapin "leading the operations and managing the troops under his command".... Russians are simply not fit for 21st century warfare. @F-22Raptor @jhungary
> 
> View attachment 884684


Well, they don't have NCO Corps, may not even have TOC.



alimobin memon said:


> Reports coming russian forces quickly pulling back. Could be the fact that they are either ending the war themselves or clearing their forces for nuclear attack ?


There are virtually no chances to launch a nuclear attack.

It will not do enough damage to Ukrainian for them to stop, you may destory a city or 2, that will only make the civilian population suffer, not the military force, and the Russian objective is land grab, what good does it do to nuke the city they want to take? And finally, it may most likely provoke the west to attack, when you stack all these reasons together, you will see the chance of nuclear strike is almost zero.



Viet said:


> That’s just sad. Died for nothing. Left behind like street garbage. Nobody deserves that. Not even your worst enemy.


Well, they died for toilet seat, sink, and TV. That's good enough. 

I mean, what do you think they are expecting back home??


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577361566378377226


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577311977935863809

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> EU restrictive measures against Iran
> 
> 
> EU restrictive measures were adopted as part of an integrated policy approach to persuade Iran to comply with its international obligations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.consilium.europa.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eeas.europa.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ”On Implementation Day (16 January 2016), the EU lifted all its economic and financial sanctions taken in connection with the Iranian nuclear programme. As a consequence of the lifting of these sanctions, the following activities, including associated services, are allowed as of Implementation Day.
> • Financial, banking and insurance measures
> As of Implementation Day, it is allowed to engage in financial transfers to and from Iran. The obligation to have recourse to notification and authorisation regimes is lifted. Consequently, transfers of funds between EU persons, entities or bodies, including EU financial and credit institutions, and non-listed Iranian persons, entities or bodies, including Iranian financial and credit institutions, are permitted as of Implementation Day and the requirements for authorisation or notification of transfers of funds are no longer applicable.”


usa also did those , the question is did they actually come in effect how many banking transaction happened after usa left JCPOA , i tell you instex only used once


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577298720668155904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577295030879911937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577094881776136192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577278334140284928


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577369293464944676


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577371366122299392

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> There are virtually no chances to launch a nuclear attack.
> 
> It will not do enough damage to Ukrainian for them to stop, you may destory a city or 2, that will only make the civilian population suffer, not the military force, and the Russian objective is land grab, what good does it do to nuke the city they want to take? And finally, it may most likely provoke the west to attack, when you stack all these reasons together, you will see the chance of nuclear strike is almost zero.


well nuclear attack probably won't happen , but if i want to use nukes i don't use it on the lands that i want to grab. , i probably use it some cities that are far away from those area , it just demoralize the opponent , if the city is were political and military headquarters are placed that would be better.

but honnestly before i go that route , i first use normal weapon against industrial and other infrastructure , i destroy major bridges , destroy power grids , destroy communication centers , .... if those failed then resort to nukes . there are many options that are not used yet so talking of using nukes seems a little premature


----------



## gambit

How the Soviet Union 'negotiate' and Russia is using the same tactics.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/washington-post-live/2022/02/01/transcript-world-stage-crisis-ukraine-with-estonia-prime-minister-kaja-kallas/



I’ve already quoted this several times, but, you know, it reminds me of the negotiation tactics of the former Soviet Union Foreign Minister Alexei Gromyko, who said basically three things.​​One is that demand the maximum. Do not meekly ask but demand.​​Second is that present ultimatums. And you know, this is also something that they are doing.​​And third is do not give one inch in negotiations because there will always be people in the West who will offer something, and in the end, you will have already a third or even a half of something you didn’t have before.​​So this is the situation, and we have to keep this in mind, because when there are discussions what could the West offer in order to deescalate, then they already have something that they didn’t have before.​
The 'third' means that there *WILL ALWAYS* those in the West who will, in the words of Margaret Thatcher to Ronald Reagan, 'go wobbly' and cave.


----------



## jhungary

Thousands of Russian troops contact Ukraine’s ‘surrender hotline’: Ukrainian official


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> How the Soviet Union 'negotiate' and Russia is using the same tactics.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/washington-post-live/2022/02/01/transcript-world-stage-crisis-ukraine-with-estonia-prime-minister-kaja-kallas/
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve already quoted this several times, but, you know, it reminds me of the negotiation tactics of the former Soviet Union Foreign Minister Alexei Gromyko, who said basically three things.​​One is that demand the maximum. Do not meekly ask but demand.​​Second is that present ultimatums. And you know, this is also something that they are doing.​​And third is do not give one inch in negotiations because there will always be people in the West who will offer something, and in the end, you will have already a third or even a half of something you didn’t have before.​​So this is the situation, and we have to keep this in mind, because when there are discussions what could the West offer in order to deescalate, then they already have something that they didn’t have before.​
> The 'third' means that there *WILL ALWAYS* those in the West who will, in the words of Margaret Thatcher to Ronald Reagan, 'go wobbly' and cave.


a question , how USA negotiate ?


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> well nuclear attack probably won't happen , but if i want to use nukes i don't use it on the lands that i want to grab. , i probably use it some cities that are far away from those area , it just demoralize the opponent , if the city is were political and military headquarters are placed that would be better.
> 
> but honnestly before i go that route , i first use normal weapon against industrial and other infrastructure , i destroy major bridges , destroy power grids , destroy communication centers , .... if those failed then resort to nukes . there are many options that are not used yet so talking of using nukes seems a little premature


Problem is, the industrial might of Ukraine does not really exist, it's Western Weapon and Western Supplies that keep the war going for Ukraine, which mean, as I already stated, the attack on City will only manage to kill Civilian, which won't really demoralise the population, in fact it will most likely to fuel more hatred and speed up deployment process and for Ukrainian to speed run the conflict and end the war quicker.

Whether or not will the West intervene directly is another issue. While it is likely in the case of nuclear weapon being used. But I can say for certainty the west will most definitely increase the indirect support to Ukraine if nuke was use regardless of they were engage in the conflict themselves, and there will be no weapon platform off limit for Ukraine, Tanks, Fighter Jets, Latest Artillery system, cruise missile, ballistic missile or even navy ship WILL ALL BE ON THE TABLE.

I would seriously doubt Russia can hold on to its land post nuke even if the west does not intervene themselves..


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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> a question , how USA negotiate ?


I would say we tends to be situational, meaning we will compromise if there are equal losses on both sides, but in situations like the Cuban Missile Crisis, we did not give. Economic inducements are our preferred method.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577374331893596161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577374711830429710

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Problem is, the industrial might of Ukraine does not really exist, it's Western Weapon and Western Supplies that keep the war going for Ukraine, which mean, as I already stated, the attack on City will only manage to kill Civilian, which won't really demoralise the population, in fact it will most likely to fuel more hatred and speed up deployment process and for Ukrainian to speed run the conflict and end the war quicker.


that depends .
also Ukraine still have industry that use for maintaining those equipment. and also if you destroy electricity and energy and communication grid , it really can be devastating for ukraine . just think hoe you want maintain some cities without them .and more importantly
*The Winter is Coming*



gambit said:


> I would say we tends to be situational, meaning we will compromise if there are equal losses on both sides, but in situations like the Cuban Missile Crisis, we did not give. Economic inducements are our preferred method.


don't you put all the possible economical and political pressure on the country then at the table , discuss on removing some of those pressure if they agree to your demands and after they do and you get what you wanted later again put those same pressure again and ask for something else

whats the difference in end result here with what Russia do , two tactic same shit


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577324419411836929

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, they don't have NCO Corps, may not even have TOC.
> 
> 
> There are virtually no chances to launch a nuclear attack.
> 
> It will not do enough damage to Ukrainian for them to stop, you may destory a city or 2, that will only make the civilian population suffer, not the military force, and the Russian objective is land grab, what good does it do to nuke the city they want to take? And finally, it may most likely provoke the west to attack, when you stack all these reasons together, you will see the chance of nuclear strike is almost zero.
> 
> 
> Well, they died for toilet seat, sink, and TV. That's good enough.
> 
> I mean, what do you think they are expecting back home??


We don’t know what Putin is up to. He is obsessed with Ukraine land grab. If he will accept the military defeat. Ukraine should prepare for worst case scenario. The US, the Nato would notice immediately I think if Russia prepares a nuclear attack.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577382405874360327

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577377847114895360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577378204926431232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577377614209105926

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577377549239336976

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> that depends .
> also Ukraine still have industry that use for maintaining those equipment. and also if you destroy electricity and energy and communication grid , it really can be devastating for ukraine . just think hoe you want maintain some cities without them .and more importantly
> *The Winter is Coming*


It won't make any difference. 

There aren't really that many Ukrainian industry in Ukraine, most Western Equipment in Ukraine were maintain in Poland. NATO called for US and EU to send contractor to Ukraine and establish maintain depot and those felt on deaf ears. 

As for Energy, Electricity and Communication Grid. First of all it is not something you can drop a few nuke and you will be completely able to destroy them, and Ukraine now very much depends on Satellite Communication, with Starlink for Civilian and SATCOM for military, it wouldn't make a different 

And if you are already in the blast zone, winter is coming have no different than you are smack right in the middle of nuclear blast, and then if you are not, there may be some disruption but that's not really in a scale they can't pull thru. And in most case, any left over of civilian or non-essential population in Ukraine would probably going to be relocated to Europe or even North American had Russia nuke Ukraine.


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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577377847114895360
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577378204926431232
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577377614209105926
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577377549239336976


Wow that’s quick.

Russia army collapsing faster than 300k or 1 million fresh mobis can arrive.

Putin the military genius


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577385386418049035
On to victory!!!


----------



## Titanium100

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577382405874360327


If Russia is defeated here in Ukraine they won't recover from it. Hence why I believe Russia will mobilize everything they have

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> As for Energy, Electricity and Communication Grid. First of all it is not something you can drop a few nuke and you will be completely able to destroy them, and Ukraine now very much depends on Satellite Communication, with Starlink for Civilian and SATCOM for military, it wouldn't make a different


you don't need nukes for that , just some well placed cruise missile do that for you . you don't need even attack power-planet , attacking distribution nodes is enough, to knock out the grid for several day and you can keep it up
star-link and sat-com need electricity , you cant win a war with emergency diesel generators



jhungary said:


> And if you are already in the blast zone, winter is coming have no different than you are smack right in the middle of nuclear blast, and then if you are not, there may be some disruption but that's not really in a scale they can't pull thru. And in most case, any left over of civilian or non-essential population in Ukraine would probably going to be relocated to Europe or even North American had Russia nuke Ukraine.


you have mistaken something , i already stated its premature to talk about nukes as there are many other option that are not used yet and what i said are those options.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> usa also did those , the question is did they actually come in effect how many banking transaction happened after usa left JCPOA , i tell you instex only used once


You have to separate two things.

Is there a law in the EU that blocks banking transactions
Are there policies in place within banks that blocks banking transactions with Iran.
All private companies have the sovereign right to choose whether they want to do business with Iran or not, so the second thing does not violate the JPCOA.
The EU only violates agreements to lift sanctions if they actually punishes people for trading with Iran.

Seems like Your accusations so far are unfounded.


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## F-22Raptor

But the Shahed-136 drones…..

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

Tomorrow will be a critical day..


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You have to separate two things.
> 
> Is there a law in the EU that blocks banking transactions
> Are there policies in place within banks that blocks banking transactions with Iran.
> All private companies have the sovereign right to choose whether they want to do business with Iran or not, so the second thing does not violate the JPCOA.
> The EU only violates agreements to lift sanctions if they actually punishes people for trading with Iran.
> 
> Seems like Your accusations so far are unfounded.


let see 
ok from 2018








SWIFT system to disconnect some Iranian banks this weekend


PARIS: The Belgium-based SWIFT financial messaging service will be disconnecting some Iranian banks this weekend, said SWIFT chief executive Gottfried Leibbrandt at an event in Paris on Friday. Earlier this week, SWIFT had already stated that it would be suspending some unspecified Iranian...




www.arabnews.com






> PARIS: The Belgium-based SWIFT financial messaging service will be disconnecting some Iranian banks this weekend, said SWIFT chief executive Gottfried Leibbrandt at an event in Paris on Friday.
> Earlier this week, SWIFT had already stated that it would be suspending some unspecified Iranian banks’ access to its messaging system in the interest of the stability and integrity of the global financial system.
> In a brief statement issued earlier this week, SWIFT had made no mention of US sanctions coming back into effect on some Iranian financial institutions on Monday, as part of US President Donald Trump’s effort to force Iran to curtail its nuclear, missile and regional activities.
> SWIFT’s statement on Nov. 5 said that suspending the Iranian banks access to the messaging system was a “regrettable” step but was “taken in the interest of the stability and integrity of the wider global financial system.”



you see we don't deal with your fancy word that only convince you
after usa left you promised us you use it to bypass usa sanctions








Europe sets up Iran trade mechanism to bypass US sanctions


Britain, France and Germany on Thursday launched a trade mechanism to bypass US sanctions on Iran, drawing praise from Tehran -- and a warning from Washington.




www.france24.com





this mechanism only used once and you were failed to deliver what you promised

why because you guys were not willing to use you blocking mechanism that you promised you use if your protect the trade with Iran




__





The EU Blocking Statute | Iran Helpdesk







sanctions-helpdesk.eu








__





IRAN EU Blocking Statute


EIFEC is the International Standards organization for Export Compliance. We are recognized as the global benchmark in areas that are a threat to international security as nuclear, biological and chemical armaments proliferation, Weapons of Mass Destruction Sanctions.




www.eifec.org






these are the promises that are made and were not delivered ,and as our official already said we don't care about some text on papers and some laws , we care about their effect and till today the effect of your laws , promises and talks or *nill*
so you can complain iran did not acted according to JCPOA after you delivered . we followed every word in word in JCPOA till 1 year after usa left it , but if the benefit it promissed are not delivered we don't see any reason to do so. here west is the one who break the deal not us


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577379530448244740


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577377847114895360
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577378204926431232
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577377614209105926
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577377549239336976


----------



## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> But the Shahed-136 drones…..


ask from Ukrainian , the problem is Russia is conservative on using them and also they for strange reason opt to not to buy our anti radiation drones .

also consider another thing , 2-3 month ago when russia arm storage one after each other get destroyed people said russia had a lot of them and its not important , now we see the effect of those incidence . right now russia start to give ukrain the same treatment with the help of Shahed-136 . winder what the war situation would be in 2 months after enough of those arm storage get blown away

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> let see
> ok from 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SWIFT system to disconnect some Iranian banks this weekend
> 
> 
> PARIS: The Belgium-based SWIFT financial messaging service will be disconnecting some Iranian banks this weekend, said SWIFT chief executive Gottfried Leibbrandt at an event in Paris on Friday. Earlier this week, SWIFT had already stated that it would be suspending some unspecified Iranian...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.arabnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you see we don't deal with your fancy word that only convince you
> after usa left you promised us you use it to bypass usa sanctions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe sets up Iran trade mechanism to bypass US sanctions
> 
> 
> Britain, France and Germany on Thursday launched a trade mechanism to bypass US sanctions on Iran, drawing praise from Tehran -- and a warning from Washington.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.france24.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this mechanism only used once and you were failed to deliver what you promised
> 
> why because you guys were not willing to use you blocking mechanism that you promised you use if your protect the trade with Iran
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The EU Blocking Statute | Iran Helpdesk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sanctions-helpdesk.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IRAN EU Blocking Statute
> 
> 
> EIFEC is the International Standards organization for Export Compliance. We are recognized as the global benchmark in areas that are a threat to international security as nuclear, biological and chemical armaments proliferation, Weapons of Mass Destruction Sanctions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eifec.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> these are the promises that are made and were not delivered ,and as our official already said we don't care about some text on papers and some laws , we care about their effect and till today the effect of your laws , promises and talks or *nill*
> so you can complain iran did not acted according to JCPOA after you delivered . we followed every word in word in JCPOA till 1 year after usa left it , but if the benefit it promissed are not delivered we don't see any reason to do so. here west is the one who break the deal not us


Show where in JPCOA the EU makes such promises…
Seems like you are confusing things.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hack-Hook said:


> ask from Ukrainian , the problem is Russia is conservative on using them and also they for strange reason opt to not to buy our anti radiation drones .
> 
> also consider another thing , 2-3 month ago when russia arm storage one after each other get destroyed people said russia had a lot of them and its not important , now we see the effect of those incidence . right now russia start to give ukrain the same treatment with the help of Shahed-136 . winder what the war situation would be in 2 months after enough of those arm storage get blown away



The Shaheds are only used for terror bombing at this point.


----------



## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> don't you put all the possible economical and political pressure on the country then at the table , discuss on removing some of those pressure if they agree to your demands and after they do and you get what you wanted later again put those same pressure again and ask for something else
> 
> whats the difference in end result here with what Russia do , two tactic same shit


What Estonia PM Kaja Kallas said is that for the Soviet/Russia method, if you want something that you do not have, just take it by force and negotiate from there. In a manner of speaking, you will be negotiating from a position of strength -- that you are in possession of that thing and it will require force to take it from you. Then as you drag out the negotiation, delays or teases of concessions, eventually someone from the other side will get tire and advises their leaders to give A, B, and/or C. You may get %100 of that thing, or you may get partial, but at least you get something from nothing.

The problem of Ukraine is that Russia failed to secure what Russia wanted, even partial of Ukraine so Russia have nothing to even tease of concessions to induce that tiredness of negotiation. If only the Ukrainians put a difficult fight, then Russia would have that position of strength, but the Ukrainians, with NATO assist, put up more than just difficult and for now, actually winning. So why should anyone from the West be tired of negotiations? Why should we put up any inducements? Elon Musk is being called out a 'simp' for his social media comments. Same for some Fox News talking heads when they tacitly advised giving Russia something because they are scared of Poutine.

You can bet whatever salary you make that right now, Poutine is aware that some of his people are plotting his removal from office. No one want a nuclear war. Ukraine is not worth it. Not even Crimea is worth it. Maybe, *IF* the Ukrainians feels truly indifferent about Crimea, then maybe we can negotiate with Russia over Crimea. However, with what Poutine put Russia thru and all he gained was little Crimea, his days are numbered. Either he dies a horrible death in Russia or he flee.

But...In case if we need to take out Russia thru a nuclear exchange, we need only two strikes.











Back in WW II, we did not destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki like popular impressions have it. But both cities suffered enough damages to induce surrender. So out of all Russia territory, we are looking at two critical targets to essentially cripple Russia. All of Russian government knows this.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577077588698095619


They all made it.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577373748290007040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577374860925603841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577375414728921088


----------



## -=virus=-

have no faith in the USA, not while that dementia ridden corpse, Biden is POTUS


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Show where in JPCOA the EU makes such promises…
> Seems like you are confusing things.


those are the promise EU made after USA left and reinstated the sanctions to Iran so Iran stay in the deal and don't leave it . 
lifting those sanction was the only reason for iran to agree to jcpoa, I wonder if you are under the impersion we agreed to the deal because we loved your eye and brew ?



F-22Raptor said:


> The Shaheds are only used for terror bombing at this point.


if hitting ammunition storage and central command of Ukrainian force and attacking ukrainian artillery with them is considered terror bombing then yes



gambit said:


> But...In case if we need to take out Russia thru a nuclear exchange, we need only two strikes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Back in WW II, we did not destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki like popular impressions have it. But both cities suffered enough damages to induce surrender. So out of all Russia territory, we are looking at two critical targets to essentially cripple Russia. All of Russian government knows this.


my guess is if it come to nuking each other two or three tzar bomba would be enough . but that aside as i doubt it will come to that , japan surrendered mainly because it was ready to surrender , it was talking with you about surrender


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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> View attachment 884711



That "zaro defences" allegedly has very bad roads, and marshy grounds.

When RU force first entered the area, they built their defence line along the very few roads.

They know they can't back off to the river, and they retreated from the area which they knew will be impossible to supply without that road.

With that, gone was their arty bases too.

They chose not to contest UA forces near the river.

It's now all about denying RU building new firebases near the dam.

Without defensive firebases, they will be doomed in those open fields.


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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> my guess is if it come to nuking each other two or three tzar bomba would be enough . but that aside as i doubt it will come to that , japan surrendered mainly because it was ready to surrender , it was talking with you about surrender


What I posted is well known even further back than when I was active duty and on the F-111. Our Victor Alert F-111s, from RAF Upper Heyford and RAF Lakenheath, each with two freefall B61s and two external fuel tanks, can reach Moscow. We can make the usual rhetoric that 'no one win a nuclear war' but realistically, after a nuclear exchange, the American people is actually more survivable than Russians because most of CONUS is livable while most of Russia is barely livable. When I say 'livable' I do not mean just eking out a scrabble existence but actually building something. And if survive mean win, then the US can win a nuclear war. This harsh calculus is not mine but from cold analyses done during the Cold War.

Poutine made the worst mistake of his life with Ukraine.

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> What I posted is well known even further back than when I was active duty and on the F-111. Our Victor Alert F-111s, from RAF Upper Heyford and RAF Lakenheath, each with two freefall B61s and two external fuel tanks, can reach Moscow. We can make the usual rhetoric that 'no one win a nuclear war' but realistically, after a nuclear exchange, the American people is actually more survivable than Russians because most of CONUS is livable while most of Russia is barely livable. When I say 'livable' I do not mean just eking out a scrabble existence but actually building something. And if survive mean win, then the US can win a nuclear war. This harsh calculus is not mine but from cold analyses done during the Cold War.
> 
> Poutine made the worst mistake of his life with Ukraine.


a question for you ,Chernobyl explosion released more radioactive material or a 1mega ton hydrogen bomb ?
do you knew how many people died and how many caught cancer because of it.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577388690883678222


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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> a question for you ,Chernobyl explosion released more radioactive material or a 1mega ton hydrogen bomb ?
> do you knew how many people died and how many caught cancer because of it.


Am not advocating for a nuclear war, if that is what you think. But what I did was put a dose of reality into the many trolls who mindlessly said how Russia would 'destroy' the US.

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## PakFactor

gambit said:


> How the Soviet Union 'negotiate' and Russia is using the same tactics.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/washington-post-live/2022/02/01/transcript-world-stage-crisis-ukraine-with-estonia-prime-minister-kaja-kallas/
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve already quoted this several times, but, you know, it reminds me of the negotiation tactics of the former Soviet Union Foreign Minister Alexei Gromyko, who said basically three things.​​One is that demand the maximum. Do not meekly ask but demand.​​Second is that present ultimatums. And you know, this is also something that they are doing.​​And third is do not give one inch in negotiations because there will always be people in the West who will offer something, and in the end, you will have already a third or even a half of something you didn’t have before.​​So this is the situation, and we have to keep this in mind, because when there are discussions what could the West offer in order to deescalate, then they already have something that they didn’t have before.​
> The 'third' means that there *WILL ALWAYS* those in the West who will, in the words of Margaret Thatcher to Ronald Reagan, 'go wobbly' and cave.



Well, this conflict changes a lot of the calculus because it's shown we've been wrong about many things regarding Russian capabilities. They've never retooled for modern warfare, and now under sanctions, they'll never have the capacity.

I don't think the West will negotiate under Russia's pressure tactics like with USSR.




gambit said:


> What Estonia PM Kaja Kallas said is that for the Soviet/Russia method, if you want something that you do not have, just take it by force and negotiate from there. In a manner of speaking, you will be negotiating from a position of strength -- that you are in possession of that thing and it will require force to take it from you. Then as you drag out the negotiation, delays or teases of concessions, eventually someone from the other side will get tire and advises their leaders to give A, B, and/or C. You may get %100 of that thing, or you may get partial, but at least you get something from nothing.
> 
> The problem of Ukraine is that Russia failed to secure what Russia wanted, even partial of Ukraine so Russia have nothing to even tease of concessions to induce that tiredness of negotiation. If only the Ukrainians put a difficult fight, then Russia would have that position of strength, but the Ukrainians, with NATO assist, put up more than just difficult and for now, actually winning. So why should anyone from the West be tired of negotiations? Why should we put up any inducements? Elon Musk is being called out a 'simp' for his social media comments. Same for some Fox News talking heads when they tacitly advised giving Russia something because they are scared of Poutine.
> 
> You can bet whatever salary you make that right now, Poutine is aware that some of his people are plotting his removal from office. No one want a nuclear war. Ukraine is not worth it. Not even Crimea is worth it. Maybe, *IF* the Ukrainians feels truly indifferent about Crimea, then maybe we can negotiate with Russia over Crimea. However, with what Poutine put Russia thru and all he gained was little Crimea, his days are numbered. Either he dies a horrible death in Russia or he flee.
> 
> But...In case if we need to take out Russia thru a nuclear exchange, we need only two strikes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Back in WW II, we did not destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki like popular impressions have it. But both cities suffered enough damages to induce surrender. So out of all Russia territory, we are looking at two critical targets to essentially cripple Russia. All of Russian government knows this.



I like that map.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577384960562024448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577407583769411584


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## gambit

PakFactor said:


> Well, this conflict changes a lot of the calculus because it's shown we've been wrong about many things regarding Russian capabilities. They've never retooled for modern warfare, and now under sanctions, they'll never have the capacity.
> 
> I don't think the West will negotiate under Russia's pressure tactics like with USSR.


I hate to say this but -- we will never be right, not just about Russia but about everyone else.

Think about this for a moment. We were never right about the Soviet Union then, they were never right about themselves and they broke up, we were never right about Russia now, and Russia was never right about Ukraine today. In short, no one is ever right about anyone.

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## Paul2

Apparently, somebody gave Ukraine M75 APCs.

Those are really old, almost WW2 materiel.

P.S. Seems to be Belgium, since US gave away their last ones to them, according to wikipedia.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> you don't need nukes for that , just some well placed cruise missile do that for you . you don't need even attack power-planet , attacking distribution nodes is enough, to knock out the grid for several day and you can keep it up
> star-link and sat-com need electricity , you cant win a war with emergency diesel generators


Like the one Russian did after the Kharkiv Offensive?









Russian strikes knock out power and water in Ukraine’s Kharkiv region


Cruise missiles hit infrastructure in what Ukraine says is revenge attack over recent rapid gains




www.theguardian.com





They took out the complete infrastructure network in Kharkiv and put the entire city in blackout.

Things is, power restored in 2 days, and the entire grid back online in 5.









Region's electricity restored following Russian strike, says Ukraine energy operator - Egypt Independent


Two of the main electricity lines supplying part of Kharkiv region have been restored, Ukraine’s energy supplier said Wednesday, following a Russian strike on a local facility that left many without power. “Repair crews of NPC Ukrenergo have already restored the operation of two main lines...




www.egyptindependent.com





It's damage is minimal, and there are about 17 nodes in Ukraine remaining, it will take way more than a few Cruises missile to try to put the entire country in the dark just for a few days, if not, they can increase output on other sector to compensate the loss of a few powers unit, and then what? It does not really do anything to the Military, because they are off grid anyway, many military equipment is either powered by generator or 12V battery, and it's not 1970 anymore, almost all Military have the ability fight in all weather. I don't know how much you think it will do, but the consequence of blackout really won't do much to the military, it will mostly be a civilian problem.








Viet said:


> We don’t know what Putin is up to. He is obsessed with Ukraine land grab. If he will accept the military defeat. Ukraine should prepare for worst case scenario. The US, the Nato would notice immediately I think if Russia prepares a nuclear attack.


He won't.

But he knows if he uses nuke, that's the end of him one way or the other.

Prepare for the worse yes, but I just don't see how Putin is to a point toward suicidal, he is crazy, but he aint stupid.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Like the one Russian did after the Kharkiv Offensive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian strikes knock out power and water in Ukraine’s Kharkiv region
> 
> 
> Cruise missiles hit infrastructure in what Ukraine says is revenge attack over recent rapid gains
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They took out the complete infrastructure network in Kharkiv and put the entire city in blackout.
> 
> Things is, power restored in 2 days, and the entire grid back online in 5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Region's electricity restored following Russian strike, says Ukraine energy operator - Egypt Independent
> 
> 
> Two of the main electricity lines supplying part of Kharkiv region have been restored, Ukraine’s energy supplier said Wednesday, following a Russian strike on a local facility that left many without power. “Repair crews of NPC Ukrenergo have already restored the operation of two main lines...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.egyptindependent.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's damage is minimal, and there are about 17 nodes in Ukraine remaining, it will take way more than a few Cruises missile to try to put the entire country in the dark just for a few days, if not, they can increase output on other sector to compensate the loss of a few powers unit, and then what? It does not really do anything to the Military, because they are off grid anyway, many military equipment is either powered by generator or 12V battery, and it's not 1970 anymore, almost all Military have the ability fight in all weather. I don't know how much you think it will do, but the consequence of blackout really won't do much to the military, it will mostly be a civilian problem.
> 
> View attachment 884727
> 
> 
> 
> He won't.
> 
> But he knows if he uses nuke, that's the end of him one way or the other.
> 
> Prepare for the worse yes, but I just don't see how Putin is to a point toward suicidal, he is crazy, but he aint stupid.



Here in Ontario if a power plant gets bombed it takes a year at least to repair it.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577419423723720706


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## F-22Raptor

Reports now that Ukraine has taken control of Snihurivka. That’d be terrible news for the Russians. That was a stronghold for the Russians in the Kherson region. If true, their lines are completely collapsing


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## jhungary

4 Smiling Ukrainian soldier and 1 pissed off cat






Kitty said "You 4 dudes didn't take this seriously enough"

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577414272598085633
Russian losses now exceed 6,700

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Reports now that Ukraine has taken control of Snihurivka. That’d be terrible news for the Russians. That was a stronghold for the Russians in the Kherson region. If true, their lines are completely collapsing


If they take Snihurivka, that mean there are 3 vectors toward Nova Kakhovka. One from Snihurivka, One from Dudchany and One form Davydiv Byid. More or less the same thing happened to Lyman will happen to Nova Kakhovka


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577436601470267392

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## jhungary

Ukrainian Colonel doing some Grand Theft Auto

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Ukrainian Colonel doing some Grand Theft Auto



T-90A is early 2000s tech and obsolete. T-90M is the latest Russian tank and has all that fancy gadgets.


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## jhungary




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577463097912020992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577459085468872704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577438425740812288

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## 925boy

alimobin memon said:


> Reports coming russian forces quickly pulling back. Could be the fact that they are either ending the war themselves or clearing their forces for nuclear attack ?


what happened to your analytical skills about this war? You used to make good points, now you talk like you're so unaware. smh.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577467316442632192

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## jhungary

Wow, the Russian mined their own Fallen's body. Usually, you only mine your enemy bodies when you retreat because you know they will recover them, mining your own people's body is a whole other level.

If it was me, I would probably just let them rot......

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## khansaheeb




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


>



Ukraine has 30 million people. Russia has 150 million people. Russia is willing to sacrifice 30 million people to annex Kiev. Russia still have 120 million people left.

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## alimobin memon

925boy said:


> what happened to your analytical skills about this war? You used to make good points, now you talk like you're so unaware. smh.


Semester started busy in conducting lectures... 

Having some fun here, I know what russia is capable militarily. 😉

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## khansaheeb

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine has 30 million people. Russia has 150 million people. Russia is willing to sacrifice 30 million people to annex Kiev. Russia still have 120 million people left.


I don't think most Russians want to fight or want to die for a dubious cause. They can stomach a few Nazis on the border?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> I don't think most Russians want to fight or want to die for a dubious cause. They can stomach a few Nazis on the border?



For Russians, Ukraine is legit Russian land. They are willing to sacrifice 30 million people to take back Ukraine and restore Russia back to 1917 border.









Russian Empire - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## khansaheeb

Petraeus: US would destroy Russia’s troops if Putin uses nukes in Ukraine


David Petraeus has said that the United States would destroy Russia’s troops and equipment in Ukraine and sink its Black Sea fleet if it carried out a nuclear attack in the country.




www.presstv.ir





Petraeus: US would destroy Russia’s troops if Putin uses nukes in Ukraine​Tuesday, 04 October 2022 3:54 PM *[ Last Update: Tuesday, 04 October 2022 3:54 PM ]*






Former CIA director and retired US army general David Petraeus
*Former CIA director and retired US army general David Petraeus has said that the United States would destroy Russia’s troops and equipment in Ukraine and sink its Black Sea fleet if it carried out a nuclear attack in the country, while Moscow has advised Washington of its nuclear “red line”.*
Petraeus said in an interview that he had not spoken to US national security adviser Jake Sullivan on the likely US response to such an attack in Ukraine by Russia, according to _The Guardian._
“Just to give you a hypothetical, we would respond by leading a NATO – a collective – effort that would take out every Russian conventional force that we can see and identify on the battlefield in Ukraine and also in Crimea and every ship in the Black Sea,” he told _ABC News._
Russian President Vladimir Putin last month hinted at being willing to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine. The Russian leader in a nationwide address called up to 300,000 reservists to aid Russia and threatened to use the country’s nuclear weapons in face of the US-led aggression against his country. 
“This is not a bluff,” Putin said. “And those who try to blackmail us with nuclear weapons should know that the weathervane can turn and point towards them.”
Petraeus said the use of nuclear weapons by Russia in Ukraine would not trigger NATO’s Article 5, which calls for the collective defense of NATO because Ukraine is not part of NATO.
Petraeus acknowledged that the likelihood that radiation would extend to NATO countries under the Article 5 umbrella could perhaps be construed as an attack on a NATO member.
“Perhaps you can make that case,” he said. “The other case is that this is so horrific that there has to be a response – it cannot go unanswered.”
Yet, Petraeus added, “You don’t want to, again, get into a nuclear escalation here. But you have to show that this cannot be accepted in any way.”
Petraeus claimed that Ukrainian is making gains in the east of the country and Putting is becoming “desperate.”
“The battlefield reality he faces is, I think, irreversible,” he said. “No amount of shambolic mobilization, which is the only way to describe it; no amount of annexation; no amount of even veiled nuclear threats can actually get him out of this particular situation.”
Meanwhile, New York-based journalist Don DeBar said in an interview with Press TV on Monday that “this is a bunch of nonsense, and highly disingenuous.”


> “Russia is not about to collapse in Ukraine, whatsoever. The US is trying to create a narrative, based on a couple of tactical retreats, that scares the life out of me, because it sounds like they intend to set off a small nuclear device in Ukraine, blame it on Moscow and use it as an excuse to make complete war on Russia,” he stated.
> “The American public has already been prepared for this by the media, for sure. This projection by the US is preparing the rest of the world for it, too,” he noted.
> “I think the morons in Washington and the psychos in Langley (the CIA headquarters) actually believe that if they do this, Russia will shy away from retaliating and just collapse like it did in 1991. I do not believe that this is a viable path for the Russian government, given the experience of the people in Russia during the 1990s, which is fresh in their memory,” he stated.


US President Joe Biden warned Putin against thoughts of using nuclear weapons in Ukraine, adding that it would “change the face of war unlike anything since WWII.”
Biden said Moscow would become a global pariah if it uses weapons of mass destruction on the former Soviet state.
In response to Biden's warning, Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov gave reporters this short answer, "Read the doctrine. Everything is written there," _RIA Novosti _reported.
The Russian nuclear doctrine allows the country to use nukes in two conditions. First, when "Russia or its ally [is under attack] with the use of mass destruction weapons," and second, "when the very existence of the state is under threat."



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> For Russians, Ukraine is legit Russian land. They are willing to sacrifice 30 million people to take back Ukraine and restore Russia back to 1917 border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Empire - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Don't think NATO will allow it and the Chinese are being opportunistic like hungry vultures waiting for the right time. India is like a paid whore willing to run to the highest bidder , but Russia has no money so has been dumped by the Indians.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> Petraeus: US would destroy Russia’s troops if Putin uses nukes in Ukraine
> 
> 
> David Petraeus has said that the United States would destroy Russia’s troops and equipment in Ukraine and sink its Black Sea fleet if it carried out a nuclear attack in the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.presstv.ir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Petraeus: US would destroy Russia’s troops if Putin uses nukes in Ukraine​Tuesday, 04 October 2022 3:54 PM *[ Last Update: Tuesday, 04 October 2022 3:54 PM ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Former CIA director and retired US army general David Petraeus
> *Former CIA director and retired US army general David Petraeus has said that the United States would destroy Russia’s troops and equipment in Ukraine and sink its Black Sea fleet if it carried out a nuclear attack in the country, while Moscow has advised Washington of its nuclear “red line”.*
> Petraeus said in an interview that he had not spoken to US national security adviser Jake Sullivan on the likely US response to such an attack in Ukraine by Russia, according to _The Guardian._
> “Just to give you a hypothetical, we would respond by leading a NATO – a collective – effort that would take out every Russian conventional force that we can see and identify on the battlefield in Ukraine and also in Crimea and every ship in the Black Sea,” he told _ABC News._
> Russian President Vladimir Putin last month hinted at being willing to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine. The Russian leader in a nationwide address called up to 300,000 reservists to aid Russia and threatened to use the country’s nuclear weapons in face of the US-led aggression against his country.
> “This is not a bluff,” Putin said. “And those who try to blackmail us with nuclear weapons should know that the weathervane can turn and point towards them.”
> Petraeus said the use of nuclear weapons by Russia in Ukraine would not trigger NATO’s Article 5, which calls for the collective defense of NATO because Ukraine is not part of NATO.
> Petraeus acknowledged that the likelihood that radiation would extend to NATO countries under the Article 5 umbrella could perhaps be construed as an attack on a NATO member.
> “Perhaps you can make that case,” he said. “The other case is that this is so horrific that there has to be a response – it cannot go unanswered.”
> Yet, Petraeus added, “You don’t want to, again, get into a nuclear escalation here. But you have to show that this cannot be accepted in any way.”
> Petraeus claimed that Ukrainian is making gains in the east of the country and Putting is becoming “desperate.”
> “The battlefield reality he faces is, I think, irreversible,” he said. “No amount of shambolic mobilization, which is the only way to describe it; no amount of annexation; no amount of even veiled nuclear threats can actually get him out of this particular situation.”
> Meanwhile, New York-based journalist Don DeBar said in an interview with Press TV on Monday that “this is a bunch of nonsense, and highly disingenuous.”
> 
> US President Joe Biden warned Putin against thoughts of using nuclear weapons in Ukraine, adding that it would “change the face of war unlike anything since WWII.”
> Biden said Moscow would become a global pariah if it uses weapons of mass destruction on the former Soviet state.
> In response to Biden's warning, Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov gave reporters this short answer, "Read the doctrine. Everything is written there," _RIA Novosti _reported.
> The Russian nuclear doctrine allows the country to use nukes in two conditions. First, when "Russia or its ally [is under attack] with the use of mass destruction weapons," and second, "when the very existence of the state is under threat."
> 
> 
> Don't think NATO will allow it and the Chinese are being opportunistic like hungry vultures waiting for the right time. India is like a paid whore willing to run to the highest bidder , but Russia has no money so has been dumped by the Indians.



Anglos are war mongers. Anglos are the only ones who ever used nukes.

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## khansaheeb

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Anglos are war mongers. Anglos are the only ones who ever used nukes.


Is the US and NATO really able to destroy the Russian army? If NATO does intervene would the Russians use swarms of Tactical nukes to hold them back and if so who or what would the targets be? Would the targets be restricted to Ukraine or hit European targets beyond the Ukraine border. If so would NATO hit back with tactical nukes if so would the targets be within Russia or would they contaminate Ukraine. Analysis is sure getting dirty and the Euro savages taking the world to the brink.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> Is the US and NATO really able to destroy the Russian army? If NATO does intervene would the Russians use swarms of Tactical nukes to hold them back and if so who or what would the targets be? Would the targets be restricted to Ukraine or hit European targets beyond the Ukraine border. If so would NATO hit back with tactical nukes if so would the targets be within Russia or would they contaminate Ukraine. Analysis is sure getting dirty and the Euro savages taking the world to the brink.



I doubt it. If the US invades Russia then China invade Taiwan and the US cannot afford to lose Taiwan. China has 1400 million people compared to Taiwan has 20 million people. Taiwan would lose without US support. US cannot afford a two front war the way Germany lost a 2 front war against UK and USSR in WW2.


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## khansaheeb



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577443927711440896

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## aviator_fan

jhungary said:


> Problem is Ukraine aren't going to let him save face.
> 
> Ukraine tasted blood and they think they can take on Russia, why wont you be? You have survived what the best Russian can throw at you in term of men, resource and equipment and then you made gain, would anyone (Other than the brainwashed bunch) really think the mobilisation can do what the Prime troop cannot? The chance for Russia turn the battlefield fortune now is almost zero, there are still chances but the chances of me hitting the lotto is probably bigger than the chance this motley army can turn the battlefield around.
> 
> Now if he go either way to please either side, it's going to be a straight piss off on the other side, he escalated more, that mean use nuke, how would the liberal Russia part would take it? If he back down, then how would the hawk part of Russia take it?
> 
> That's worse than Hitler, at lease he don't have a liberal anti-war part of Germany (or not at all much) during WW2....


Ukraine will not but in a month (assuming Putin doesn't do anything crazy), I see NATO saying 'go back to the way it was in January of 2022', i.e. keep Crimea and vacate the rest. Ukraine won't like it but if weapons are cut off, may settle


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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> Ukraine will not but in a month (assuming Putin doesn't do anything crazy), I see NATO saying 'go back to the way it was in January of 2022', i.e. keep Crimea and vacate the rest. Ukraine won't like it but if weapons are cut off, may settle



I don't think land border is the primary factor of why Ukraine will settle. I will say the security guarantee is the reason why Ukraine will settle.

It's never who hold what when is the problem here for Ukraine, it's always about Russia have to give up its ambition to encroach on Ukrainian land. Simply a peace offering is not going to be enough, I don't think after Budapest Memorandum, security guarantee between US, UK and Ukraine are going to be enough, it has to be a binding Defensive alliance, so it almost certain NATO membership is the ultimate sway for Ukraine to settle. Anything less in Ukrainian eyes are just a time buying and waiting on Russia to try this again.

I mean, I would think if NATO said, I would let you join if you give up Donbas (the one that was occupied by Separatist, not the entire thing) and Crimea, I think Ukraine will settle. Of course, that is going to be already binding first. So after all 30 members voted on it and present as a binding document, I think that's up for negotiation.

For NATO, that's a good proposal, the amount of Hardware they gave Ukraine make it impossible not to have them in NATO, think about it, the more NATO give their weapon to Ukraine, the more powerful it gets, and to a point if Ukraine go back to Russosphere and go against NATO, that would have been a MAJOR SETBACK for NATO, with the amount of equipment NATO gave Ukrainian already, it would be foolish NOT to lock Ukraine in.

Problem is, would Russia okay with that? I don't think they will be okay for Ukraine to join NATO, and on the other hand, I just don't see how Ukraine will settle without NATO membership. Now, that is the $64,000 question here.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Wow, the Russian mined their own Fallen's body. Usually, you only mine your enemy bodies when you retreat because you know they will recover them, mining your own people's body is a whole other level.
> 
> If it was me, I would probably just let them rot......


That’s low. Life seems little worth in Russia.

Meanwhile Shoigu says 200,000 are mobilized. Not all of them will return. They will die for nothing, for others peoples thieves.

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## mike2000 is back

None


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577298720668155904
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577295030879911937
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577094881776136192
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577278334140284928


Bullshit, zelesnky is as much a US puppet/client as Saudi Arabia leader is a US puppet. Those who believe the former are part of those who also believe the later , that's all I can say. Lol we have seen that here on PDF several.times as well. To some, basically every Arab country/gulf state is a US/Western puppet/client state with no independence of actions whatsoever. Lol

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## mike2000 is back

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577374331893596161
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577374711830429710


Seriously this Ukraine Crisis has again shown that many European countries are truly lacking not just in will for European security(something Trump was right in complaining about ) and has shown that the US remains the main one doing the heavy lifting as always. We can see this from military support Ukraine has received the US is by far the biggest supplier/helper followed by Poland( which i wont count as much since it's understandable due to the fact that they are one of the most sensitive country in the world when it comes to Russia and given they are the largest country in Eastwen Europe and very close to Russias border) followed by the UK as always, Germany in 5th position has again shown its limitations when it really matters given its size and weight in Europe, the rest are mostly small Eastern european countries who feel even more threatened by this invasion, and so have been providing ukraine military help way above a country their size mostly due to this reason. 
However, the most disappointing European country to me has been France. They have provided little help, despite being the country who was championing an independent European defence (under their lead obviously. Lol) the most. France had actually proven to be unreliable, and this will kill the plan they had to form a European independent defence/military before it even started. No country will trust them on such a thing again. This war has shown alot of things. @Vergennes what's to explain for France's timid military support? From what i heard the country is almost irrelevant when Ukraine authorities even look to discuss military procurement and aid. Interesting.



F-22Raptor said:


> But the Shahed-136 drones…..


Please leave Shaheed out of this. That dude has tried his best. 😁

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## mike2000 is back

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I doubt it. If the US invades Russia then China invade Taiwan and the US cannot afford to lose Taiwan. China has 1400 million people compared to Taiwan has 20 million people. Taiwan would lose without US support. US cannot afford a two front war the way Germany lost a 2 front war against UK and USSR in WW2.


Superboy. Can you please just remain silent for a few days/weeks(im sure i speak for most members on here)? You really hurt our IQ, give us time to heal it. The amount of stupid stuffs you say makes me wonder if you were born prematurely. Not even chinese members on here(despite their nationalism) want to be associated with you. 🤦🏽 and I don't like being rude or make personal attacks, but you make the most silly comments on here. 😵‍💫

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## alimobin memon

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine has 30 million people. Russia has 150 million people. Russia is willing to sacrifice 30 million people to annex Kiev. Russia still have 120 million people left.


Dude as a neutral person I know for one thing that talk senses is useless as Russia has surprised us all. Though it will eventually have some sort of upper hand. The reputation for now is completely reduced. Population numbers cannot alone justify the win to lose criteria.


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## gambit

mike2000 is back said:


> Superboy. Can you please just remain silent for a dew days/weeks(im sure i speak for most members on here)? You really hurt our IQ, give us time to heal it. The amount of stupid stuffs you say makes me wonder if you were birn prematurely. Not even chinese members on here(despite their nationalism) want to be associated with you. 🤦🏽 and I don't like being rude or make personal attacks, but you make the most silly comments on here. 😵‍💫


He is a full time sofa soldier. He needs that 50 cent per post income.

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## Deino

gambit said:


> He is a full time sofa soldier. He needs that 50 cent per post income.




Indeed, in Germany there is a saying: 

Es ist ja schon toll, dass inzwischen jeder (Idiot) im Internet seine Meinung frei äußern kann ... nur warum tut es ausgerechnet jeder (Idiot)?

It's really great that everyone (aka every idiot) can now express their opinion freely on the Internet ... but why does everyone (aka every idiot)?

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## ZeGerman

mike2000 is back said:


> Superboy. Can you please just remain silent for a dew days/weeks(im sure i speak for most members on here)? You really hurt our IQ, give us time to heal it. The amount of stupid stuffs you say makes me wonder if you were birn prematurely. Not even chinese members on here(despite their nationalism) want to be associated with you. 🤦🏽 and I don't like being rude or make personal attacks, but you make the most silly comments on here. 😵‍💫


Yes. His hundreds of post on 120 million population beats 40 million. 

And a artillery with higher mm ammo wins. 

Just hurts to filter through, let alone read.

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## hadi1990

well the west is at the same point of miss calculation they did prior to this crisis...
they kept sending signs to the Russians on how ukraine will change from a neighbour and old brother to a knife holder next door... Putin did what he thought he should do, he could have done it in other ways ... achieving more by more blood at the beginning but he was dreaming of an iconic invasion... the west and Ukraine fighted back the bad russion performance and ultimate weapons drones xcaliber 155 smart bonus artillery telecom.... now russian lines were struck painfully... the west is now in the dream of victory Putin once dreamed of...
this is russia wake up ... the west is just making things more complicated to the point where the russians may pull other triggers they hadnot used yet...
only negotiations may end this misery...
or all the white people will be crushed west and east...
the west caused the Russians to start this , now the are causing insane ends instead of stepping things down

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> They took out the complete infrastructure network in Kharkiv and put the entire city in blackout.
> 
> Things is, power restored in 2 days, and the entire grid back online in 5.


the problem they didn't follow suit with another strike and again another strike and again another one after they fix it . you think for how long they can keep fix it now if its not just one city but several ?


jhungary said:


> It's damage is minimal, and there are about 17 nodes in Ukraine remaining, it will take way more than a few Cruises missile to try to put the entire country in the dark just for a few days, if not, they can increase output on other sector to compensate the loss of a few powers unit, and then what? It does not really do anything to the Military, because they are off grid anyway, many military equipment is either powered by generator or 12V battery, and it's not 1970 anymore, almost all Military have the ability fight in all weather. I don't know how much you think it will do, but the consequence of blackout really won't do much to the military, it


it take 17 cruise missile or iskander or whatever they use each 2-3 day i say very good price consider the amount of damage and chaos it bring . 
as I said I can't understand the decision Russians are making in this war . if it was my war it was complete different type of war . you think which is cheaper and easier keep knocking that grid off or trying to keep it working . and for how long they can keep it up


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> the problem they didn't follow suit with another strike and again another strike and again another one after they fix it . you think for how long they can keep fix it now if its not just one city but several ?



With what?

There are limited amount of missile one country can have, Russian don't have unlimited supplies on, and since the war, they already had expanded 5000+, even with country like US, it's general believe they don't have more than 10,000 in stock,

Let's do a very basic calculation, each Substation Node cost 4 missile to hit, 17 of them would mean 68 missiles for all 17 site, and let's assume they bring it back up every 5 days, in a year, you would have expanded 4964 missiles.

I will most certainly think the Ukrainian have the ability to fix their node before Russian missile runs out.



Hack-Hook said:


> it take 17 cruise missile or iskander or whatever they use each 2-3 day i say very good price consider the amount of damage and chaos it bring .
> as I said I can't understand the decision Russians are making in this war . if it was my war it was complete different type of war . you think which is cheaper and easier keep knocking that grid off or trying to keep it working . and for how long they can keep it up



Cruise missile payload is too low, you can't just fire 1 and take care of the node, the last time Russian fired 5 missiles to take down the entire grid.

Let alone there are 3 Nuclear Power Plant you can't use missile to bring down, it was hardened for missile strike, and the only way you can bring it down is by airstrike, and if you DO bring it down, the Kharkiv Nuclear Power Plant would most certainly bring nuclear fallout to Moscow. It's merely 400 miles away.

There is a reason why Russia did not do it, if they think it is a cost-effective measure, they would have done it already. Instead of using their Iskander or shopping mall and building.

Again, this is not 1970s, most military have night fighting capability, it's nothing more than a waste of ammo to bomb power grid.

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## Hack-Hook

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Here in Ontario if a power plant gets bombed it takes a year at least to repair it.


no one talking about Powe planet , each power grid have nodes that distribute power , regulate the flow of electricity and voltage and balance it , if you take several out all the power grid go offline . they are not as big as a powerplanet , they wont look much at first glance but they are essential to a power grid and without them you can't have a functioning grid. from outside they may look like it










but in each of them there is a control room like this






bock that room out and i like to see how that grid can continue working



jhungary said:


> With what?
> 
> There are limited amount of missile one country can have, Russian don't have unlimited supplies on, and since the war, they already had expanded 5000+, even with country like US, it's general believe they don't have more than 10,000 in stock,
> 
> Let's do a very basic calculation, each Substation Node cost 4 missile to hit, 17 of them would mean 68 missiles for all 17 site, and let's assume they bring it back up every 5 days, in a year, you would have expanded 4964 missiles.
> 
> I will most certainly think the Ukrainian have the ability to fix their node before Russian missile runs out.


you say russia don't have 415 missile to keep all that grid offline for a month ?
, they are using those missiles to attack targets that must be attacked with drones more than that now they can use their Gran-2 to do the attack 6-7 for each node is more than enough


jhungary said:


> Cruise missile payload is too low, you can't just fire 1 and take care of the node, the last time Russian fired 5 missiles to take down the entire grid.


the infrastructure we are talking about is very sensitive in nature , you disable part of it then all of it is useless till you fix that part


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577544622863155202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577578457374023680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577547423517495296


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Let alone there are 3 Nuclear Power Plant you can't use missile to bring down, it was hardened for missile strike, and the only way you can bring it down is by airstrike, and if you DO bring it down, the Kharkiv Nuclear Power Plant would most certainly bring nuclear fallout to Moscow. It's merely 400 miles away.


no I don't want to attacks the Power planet , my target will be distribution nodes which are separate from Power planets 

and honestly i ask a question , how many people died in Chernobyl Power planet explosion , and how many get cancer from the fall out 


> Following the reactor explosion, which killed two engineers and severely burned two more, a massive emergency operation to put out the fire, stabilize the reactor, and clean up the ejected radioactive material began. During the immediate emergency response, 237 workers were hospitalized, of which 134 exhibited symptoms of acute radiation syndrome. Among those hospitalized, 28 died within the following three months, all of whom were hospitalized for ARS. In the following 10 years, 14 more workers (9 who had been hospitalized with ARS) died of various causes mostly unrelated to radiation exposure.





> Chernobyl's health effects to the general population are uncertain. An excess of 15 childhood thyroid cancer deaths were documented as of 2011.[9][10] A United Nations committee found that to date fewer than 100 deaths have resulted from the fallout.[11] Determining the total eventual number of exposure related deaths is uncertain based on the linear no-threshold model, a contested statistical model.[12][13] Model predictions of the eventual total death toll in the coming decades vary. The most widely cited studies by the World Health Organization predict an eventual 4,000 fatalities in Ukraine, Belarus and Russia.





> Although it is difficult to compare releases between the Chernobyl accident and a deliberate air burst nuclear detonation, it has still been estimated that about four hundred times more radioactive material was released from Chernobyl than by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki together. However, the Chernobyl accident only released about one hundredth to one thousandth of the total amount of radioactivity released during nuclear weapons testing at the height of the Cold War; the wide estimate being due to the different abundances of isotopes released.



I must say there is no doubt fall out is a nasty business , but it has become a more scare monger tactics than an actual threat


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> no one talking about Powe planet , each power grid have nodes that distribute power , regulate the flow of electricity and voltage and balance it , if you take several out all the power grid go offline . they are not as big as a powerplanet , they wont look much at first glance but they are essential to a power grid and without them you can't have a functioning grid. from outside they may look like it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but in each of them there is a control room like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bock that room out and i like to see how that grid can continue working
> 
> 
> you say russia don't have 415 missile to keep all that grid offline for a month ?



Then what? Again, do you think Ukraine cannot fight off grid?

Most combat equipment Ukraine use are can either run on Dry Battery, Car Battery and Generator, and most form did not use battery at all.

Seeing the Ukrainian war are almost entirely ground war, tell me which component of ground war have to rely on the grid to fight? Even when we fight in Iraq, we fought off grid. From the comm hub in the commander tank to the communication device and my targeting computer, they don't run on grids. Do you think somehow Russia taken Ukraine Military Off grid (If they had not done so already) would change anything? I mean would High Command TOC not function? Would the communication device like ICOM not function? Or the night vision goggle Ukrainian soldier using is not going to function??





Hack-Hook said:


> , they are using those missiles to attack targets that must be attacked with drones more than that now they can use their Gran-2 to do the attack 6-7 for each node is more than enough
> 
> the infrastructure we are talking about is very sensitive in nature , you disable part of it then all of it is useless till you fix that part


Again, you are not just talking about 1 part of the battlefield, you are talking the entire battlefield, in this case, your target will multiply, you no longer just need 400 some missile to take it down for month, you will need multiple thousand of missile to take down the redundant system

As I said, if Russia really think this is a cost effective solution, they would have done so already, military don't fight with grid power, yes, it means no hot water in the field when you shower, but that does not negate your combat power a bit.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Then what? Again, do you think Ukraine cannot fight off grid?
> 
> Most combat equipment Ukraine use are can either run on Dry Battery, Car Battery and Generator, and most form did not use battery at all.


the question id for how long 


jhungary said:


> Again, you are not just talking about 1 part of the battlefield, you are talking the entire battlefield, in this case, your target will multiply, you no longer just need 400 some missile to take it down for month, you will need multiple thousand of missile to take down the redundant system


the number of targets are limited in all ukraine something between 10-15 of them . and russia even don't need attack those in area under its control


jhungary said:


> As I said, if Russia really think this is a cost effective solution, they would have done so already, military don't fight with grid power, yes, it means no hot water in the field when you shower, but that does not negate your combat power a bit.


there we many sane solution that Russia did not do and it bite them latter . just think the cost of the armor and other equipment Russia lost due to prolongation of war ,



jhungary said:


> Seeing the Ukrainian war are almost entirely ground war, tell me which component of ground war have to rely on the grid to fight? Even when we fight in Iraq, we fought off grid. From the comm hub in the commander tank to the communication device and my targeting computer, they don't run on grids. Do you think somehow Russia taken Ukraine Military Off grid (If they had not done so already) would change anything? I mean would High Command TOC not function? Would the communication device like ICOM not function? Or the night vision goggle Ukrainian soldier using is not going to function??


the factory and industry that maintain those devices don't work on battery , you think how long Ukrainian tolerate living without electricity and water for areas that their previous president said if Ukraine want to become a modern country must like cancer cut away from it's body ?

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> the question id for how long



How long? How long does the supplies of dry battery, car battery and gas for generator last?

Again, do you think Russian Missile stock last longer? Or Ukrainian battery stock??


Hack-Hook said:


> the number of targets are limited in all ukraine something between 10-15 of them . and russia even don't need attack those in area under its control



The 17 node I quote already excluded Russian occupied area.




Hack-Hook said:


> there we many sane solution that Russia did not do and it bite them latter . just think the cost of the armor and other equipment Russia lost due to prolongation of war ,



Again, it won't shorten the war, I mean, it's not like Ukrainian General in the Headquarter of their field camp holding a cable and wonder where are the socket he is going to plug that in. ALL WAR ARE FOUGHT OFF GRID now. It makes absolutely no different if you attack the civilian power grid.





Hack-Hook said:


> the factory and industry that maintain those devices don't work on battery , you think how long Ukrainian tolerate living without electricity and water for areas that their previous president said if Ukraine want to become a modern country must like cancer cut away from it's body ?


Again, what factory are in Ukraine right now? Most, if not all weapon Ukrainian use are Western Weapon, there are few tanks and artillery guns that are still soviet stock but even those ammo come from the west. You are not talking about economy, here, where you need power to make stuff to earn money.

You are talking about how supply work in a battlefield. Everything from uniform to Bullet to artillery shell can be come from EU, as long as you have trucks and railway that bring stuff across the border from Poland and Romania, the war effort continues. And railway runs on diesel and truck runs on petrol or diesel. Taking power grid out does not mean Ukraine will stop receiving munition from the West. As long as the factory in EU keep turning out weaponry to replenish the stock, what ever happened in Ukraine does not really matter. Or you still think Ukrainian Factory still making tanks and artillery or even shell right now??


----------



## hadi1990

no one can understand the Russian plan and subsequently the objectives and sub objectives... ok they are fighting the Nato thats true... if it has been Ukraine left alone in one week i think it will be over, not to under estimate the Ukies moral and interesting human fighting capabilities and tactics ( they are a mini Russia at the end) ... but the support resources are not there , the Ukranians have lost strategically from the first days.... now they won some interesting tactical battles Kharkiv and Kherson attacks they won attrition and bleeding out russian equipment to critical levels but this may not be massed to a potential startegic victory to match thye losses they sufferd.. Ukraine needs 20 years to go back to the situation and potentials it had at the night of february 23 2022.. the west dont mind they only care to make russian losses greater...
russia can now or at any time start a systemetic bombing that can make ukraine go back to the 1950s in a couple of weeks... but no one can understand there methodology and logic after all

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577603797509095426


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577615847761362947

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> How long? How long does the supplies of dry battery, car battery and gas for generator last?
> 
> Again, do you think Russian Missile stock last longer? Or Ukrainian battery stock??
> 
> 
> The 17 node I quote already excluded Russian occupied area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it won't shorten the war, I mean, it's not like Ukrainian General in the Headquarter of their field camp holding a cable and wonder where are the socket he is going to plug that in. ALL WAR ARE FOUGHT OFF GRID now. It makes absolutely no different if you attack the civilian power grid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, what factory are in Ukraine right now? Most, if not all weapon Ukrainian use are Western Weapon, there are few tanks and artillery guns that are still soviet stock but even those ammo come from the west. You are not talking about economy, here, where you need power to make stuff to earn money.
> 
> You are talking about how supply work in a battlefield. Everything from uniform to Bullet to artillery shell can be come from EU, as long as you have trucks and railway that bring stuff across the border from Poland and Romania, the war effort continues. And railway runs on diesel and truck runs on petrol or diesel. Taking power grid out does not mean Ukraine will stop receiving munition from the West. As long as the factory in EU keep turning out weaponry to replenish the stock, what ever happened in Ukraine does not really matter. Or you still think Ukrainian Factory still making tanks and artillery or even shell right now??



btw It's still very surprising how much industry Ukraine still have working. Of course not talking names of the plants.

I didn't expect it to be real to setup a war economy in this day, but they did.

Their armour recovery is very remarkable, and they are puting back into action vehicles which would've been a write off because they have huge pool of industrial workers.

They had an Australian MRAP which had its wheel blown off twice, and both times repaired.

Russian armour recovery, on the other hand, is limited to moving damaged vehicles to a giant scrapyard near the border with Ukraine.

Ukraine has a lot of industry.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577624396063203328


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577615917193756673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577606559265423362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577606533780758529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577620369829425152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577570608573026305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577570937154818049

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> btw It's still very surprising how much industry Ukraine still have working. Of course not talking names of the plants.
> 
> I didn't expect it to be real to setup a war economy in this day, but they did.
> 
> Their armour recovery is very remarkable, and they are puting back into action vehicles which would've been a write off because they have huge pool of industrial workers.
> 
> They had an Australian MRAP which had its wheel blown off twice, and both times repaired.
> 
> Russian armour recovery, on the other hand, is limited to moving damaged vehicles to a giant scrapyard near the border with Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine has a lot of industry.


Well, most Ukrainian vehicle repair are done on the field, when I was in Ukraine, I saw how their recovery works.

They basically tow the recovered vehicle to safety, and then perform repair on roadside, or in the bush, or whatever, what they usually do is to take apart another damaged/destroyed Russian tank and transfer the parts to save the broken down tank. 

On the other hand, Russia can only target Ukrainian business with cruise missile anyway, and those will most likely destroy per building. And I will dare say there are a lot more building than Russian missile.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577623043525984258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577622139456430080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577618137977163776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577615808800464897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577602204717940736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577581714691473408


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577571177689661440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577569260792053761

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577618791982563328

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577570327755988994


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577628903824400385

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577628903824400385



Not to far from Svatove now. It seems the offensive will come from the south. Ukrainian forces coming from Kupyansk don’t seem to be in a hurry

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## One_Nation

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577077588698095619



That was a clever trap by Russians.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577638750510645248


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577571177689661440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577569260792053761



Striking empty bases...


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577627579787448320
More of Luhansk have been liberated from russian terrorists.

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## Primus

One_Nation said:


> That was a clever trap by Russians.


I don't think it was a trap. Rather the Ukrainians successfully ambushed a Russian logistics truck carrying a ZSU 23 on its back. However, as we see in the vid, there aren't bodies near the truck, so the personnel must have jumped out and radioed a friendly unit that was nearby of what just happened. The rest happens in the vid


----------



## One_Nation

Primus said:


> I don't think it was a trap. Rather the Ukrainians successfully ambushed a Russian logistics truck carrying a ZSU 23 on its back. However, as we see in the vid, there aren't bodies near the truck, so the personnel must have jumped out and radioed a friendly unit that was nearby of what just happened. The rest happens in the vid


Nice twist.


----------



## Primus

One_Nation said:


> Nice twist.


Bruh....

@jhungary 

Can you explain what happened in the vid with the Ukrainians inspecting an ambushed Russian truck with a zsu 23 on the back, before being fired upon by a Russian tank?


----------



## jhungary

Primus said:


> Bruh....
> 
> @jhungary
> 
> Can you explain what happened in the vid with the Ukrainians inspecting an ambushed Russian truck with a zsu 23 on the back, before being fired upon by a Russian tank?


First of all, it's quite obvious the Ukrainian had spotted the Russian Tank during the inspection.

At 0:26 - You can hear a tank gun firing.
At 0:28 - you can see the guy that pull security and hear the guy ask "What's that"
At 0:29 - Someone responded and the guy point at where the shot at
At 0:35 - The guy identified the Russian Position, and try to leave the area
Until 0:48 - The team ran back to the Humvee
At 0:58 - The guy urges the driver to go.
At 1:02 - Their Humvee was hit.

Judging from the timeline according to the video. The gap between a tank shown up (IDed by the Ukrainian) from whoever attacking the Humvee (I don't think that's a tank round, more like RPG, because you will hear the screeching sound from a High Velocity Tank round, probably from Dismounted Russian Infantry). In fact, we even don't know if the tank was Russian. The guy said "Russian was there" but there is a disconnect between whether or not that tank gun firing we heard at 0:26 were from the Russian or to the Russian.

On the other hand, it took 34 seconds to engage. If that is an ambush by the Russian, then the Russian is taking their time. And it would work a lot better if it was indeed a Russian tank, to fire at the SF group (They are no doubt Ukrainian SF) when they were inspecting the ZSU, because that's when they were still unexpected.

Judging from the angle. I would say either the Ukrainian were engaging the Russian at whenever we hear at 0:26 and the Russian spotted the Ukrainian SF, and fire a RPG round or low velocity round. That is the most likely scenario.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577661952385552384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577673603885240322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577673996430151680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577675639091613696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577677475785621504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577668623975518208


----------



## Shawnee

How to overcome these Iranian drones:

- Media should help to minimize the effect of the drones and overemphasize the effect of HIMARS and TB2. Bold titles. Hire professionals to call it ineffective.

- Also use Israeli tactics to hit unknown locations and then make a bold title “50 Iranian officers killed”. You don’t need any proof. Some satellite images of a burnt building plus media power make it work.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577653697093533698

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577654976255590400
Russia annexed Zaporazhia nuclear power plant at Enerhodar.



https://ria.ru/20221005/zaes-1821776300.html

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577567613206544384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577662441181388802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577674748158435330

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577673481029926912

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577621031212154881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577633698576584704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577632750462443521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577632755436949504

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## jhungary

A few Telegram channel call for Russian Troop in the Northern Kherson region to retreat back to Nova Kakovka citing being outflank by Ukrainian from Davydiv Brid direction.

They are kind of urgent in their tone.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577670454478864389

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577655678176460803

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577687979673485314

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577670716069232645

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577662069587025920

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## jhungary

lol, Rybar blasted Arab fighting for Ukraine......


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577652851924516864
I think he meant Chechen.....

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577709649519845378
Russians surrendering to Ukrainians

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## jhungary

Ukraine M270 in action


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> those are the promise EU made after USA left and reinstated the sanctions to Iran so Iran stay in the deal and don't leave it .
> lifting those sanction was the only reason for iran to agree to jcpoa, I wonder if you are under the impersion we agreed to the deal because we loved your eye and brew ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577713442089185280

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## zectech

The Russian winter offensive is near. Musk and other traitors want to be proven correct about Ukraine should bow out of the war because of a soon Russian offensive.

So Ukraine needs shoulder fired weapons, tens of thousands of anti-tank missiles, with thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of launchers. And nearly hundreds of thousands RPG that can knock out APV and other lighter vehicles for front and reserve lines. Build the defenses now and get the new shipments of weapons now. More T-72s and T-62s are going to be sent to Ukraine. Have to have the weapons ready to destroy these.

We need the majority of frontline Ukrainian soldiers carrying these shoulder fired weapons, one soldier shown in this tweet carrying. Most should be carrying inexpensive RPG.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577426387018735616
These counter-offensives are gonna to be at risk of the Russian winter offensive if Ukrainians do not have the weapons to send those Ruzzians back.

And don't hold 5K anti-tank launchers with missiles at some depot to be blown up. Distribute them to front and reserve soldiers. Of the main purposes of modern warfare is swarms. If you buy/get these shoulder fired weapons, disperse them to soldiers. Have overwhelming targets that can't be hit because too great of number of targets, instead of one giant target to lose the war. Having one giant target of a depot is how to lose the war quickly.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577711074513752070

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## Viet

Not bad

Ukraine army makes steady progress.

Keep pounding the orcs.





Show caption- Ukraine national guards fire a howitzer towards Russian troops in Kharkiv. Photograph: Reuters

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577679825040543746

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577679825040543746



Translation?


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577709649519845378
> Russians surrendering to Ukrainians



This is the first documented handover, but it should've been at least 3 more over the last week.

Unless it is staged, then murmurs of RU and UA officers quietly meeting in the field to negotiate surrender on favourable terms over the last few weeks are true.

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## The SC




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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 884966


and what was the term of the deal

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577653542684221440


----------



## Viet

zectech said:


> The Russian winter offensive is near. Musk and other traitors want to be proven correct about Ukraine should bow out of the war because of a soon Russian offensive.
> 
> So Ukraine needs shoulder fired weapons, tens of thousands of anti-tank missiles, with thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of launchers. And nearly hundreds of thousands RPG that can knock out APV and other lighter vehicles for front and reserve lines. Build the defenses now and get the new shipments of weapons now. More T-72s and T-62s are going to be sent to Ukraine. Have to have the weapons ready to destroy these.
> 
> We need the majority of frontline Ukrainian soldiers carrying these shoulder fired weapons, one soldier shown in this tweet carrying. Most should be carrying inexpensive RPG.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577426387018735616
> These counter-offensives are gonna to be at risk of the Russian winter offensive if Ukrainians do not have the weapons to send those Ruzzians back.
> 
> And don't hold 5K anti-tank launchers with missiles at some depot to be blown up. Distribute them to front and reserve soldiers. Of the main purposes of modern warfare is swarms. If you buy/get these shoulder fired weapons, disperse them to soldiers. Have overwhelming targets that can't be hit because too great of number of targets, instead of one giant target to lose the war. Having one giant target of a depot is how to lose the war quickly.


If anything Putin will order the offensive in spring next year when the 300,000 mobis are trained, armed and ready. At best Putin hopes his troops will survive Ukraine onslaughts thru winter.

As for Musk, as engineer I admire his engineering skills and richness however his “peace” plan is retarded. Ukraine is right when they say him to shut up.


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## Paul2

The video of big bang in Lyman as RU forces were retreating in a column:

It's not bombing, or ammo going off in a tank.

Telegrams say it were UA commandos who dug a mine under the road few days beforehand in preparation for ambush.


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## Paul2

Russian troop movements are such a total giveaway:







I've been tracking RU mobo troops over last weeks. They are not even trying to hide them.

Google gives off bi-hourly updates, and they match metadata in leaked phone videos 1-to-1 pretty much.

They haven't sent much of new troops to Ukraine. Rather they keep them in the middle of nowhere near UA border, most in Bilhorod.

UA sources tell of 20-40k of them along the border

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## alimobin memon

Paul2 said:


> Russian troop movements are such a total giveaway:
> 
> View attachment 884979
> 
> 
> I've been tracking RU mobo troops over last weeks. They are not even trying to hide them.
> 
> Google gives off bi-hourly updates, and they match metadata in leaked phone videos 1-to-1 pretty much.
> 
> They haven't sent much of new troops to Ukraine. Rather they keep them in the middle of nowhere near UA border, most in Bilhorod.
> 
> UA sources tell of 20-40k of them along the border


The way Ukrainians are reporting and online reports are coming its either that everyone has wrong impression or russians are actually dumb which I would never believe that they are dumb. To me still russians real figures are hidden how many are actually inside ukraine. I claimed before and I claim now that russians are hiding something big making fool of everyone. Putins speech and yesterdays approval and final sign of annexation is propf that the russians are not afraid and yes not even trying hard cause they are confident about annexing them. Its not about who is right or wrong its just a view.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577747155305074688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577668623975518208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577661736588550144

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## The SC




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## alimobin memon

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577747155305074688
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577668623975518208
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577661736588550144


Someone posted here a tweet claiming a huge blast through mine and now this says fab was used. Ofcourse mines with huge blasts is new thing 



Paul2 said:


> The video of big bang in Lyman as RU forces were retreating in a column:
> 
> It's not bombing, or ammo going off in a tank.
> 
> Telegrams say it were UA commandos who dug a mine under the road few days beforehand in preparation for ambush.


This one i guess.


----------



## aziqbal

Russia had 20% of Ukraine 

now they have lost 5% so now 15%

today also Ukraine pushed into Russian "claimed" territory 

so question is what will Russia do ?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> Russia had 20% of Ukraine
> 
> now they have lost 5% so now 15%
> 
> today also Ukraine pushed into Russian "claimed" territory
> 
> so question is what will Russia do ?



There isn't much fighting in the first year of the war. Starting in the second year there is more fighting.


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## Paul2

The biggest discovery for me this week was finding out that RUAF are super-short of junior officers, despite them having tons of them on the paper.

The level of training of a russian lieutenant is comparable to UK specialist, AT MOST.

How does russian army produce its lieutenants? 1. Military academies; 2. Civilian universities, and colleges which teach military subjects.

Most people were going for the second, because it gives a civilian job. AND, apparently, a lot of russians were getting these courses to actually AVOID getting drafted, or to get easy service if they were to be drafted.

*Basically 60%-70% of russian junior officers are civilians, who never did serve professionally, and only got to do real military duties for the first time in their lives this year.*

Second, russians do automatic promotions up to a captain in some cases, which is crazy. This means that any of such paper lieutenants can go up in rank by just staying for a few years doing nothing after their draft.

Captain's training in RUAF mostly accents on non-combat related disciplines, because they assume that lieutenants were already taught basics when they were cadets. They learn stuff like paperwork, admin work, legal, doctrine, psych work, etc.

But RUAF also have very few majors, because they are reluctant to promote such low quality officers further, nor they know how to pick good ones from so many candidates. Ones chances to get to a major before 30 is near zero in russian army because there are gazillions of captains. Even in PLA, I know few 28-29 years old majors.

The root cause of all of this seem to be Russia's zeal to "professionalize" the military akin to NATOs armies, and prepare more personel to man complex equipment. And this apparently began back in the USSR, in its last years, when they admitted that NATO has unimaginable qualitative advantage, and that the USSR will soon loose Warsow Pact Countries as allies.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577700943872856064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577704824581275650

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577687728799551495


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Translation?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577757167955939334

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## Paul2

aziqbal said:


> Russia had 20% of Ukraine
> 
> now they have lost 5% so now 15%
> 
> today also Ukraine pushed into Russian "claimed" territory
> 
> so question is what will Russia do ?



For Ukraine, gaining territory was relatively easy after they exhausted RUAF offensive potential.

I would argue, their overall strategic priority after March until Kharkiv offensive was to deny RU easy attack, and manoeuvre opportunities, rather than counterattack above all.

Now russians have spread themselves wide, because they themselves wanted to go on the defensive.... and here UA turned the table by throwing 10 brigades at a time enfilading thin defensive lines.

Answering your question now, the battle now will go for the next 10% of the territory, and after that, I bet, Kremlin will lose interest fighting for puny 5%, since Kremlin can't brag with a square face about wasting the entirety of world's №2 military for puny 30000 square kilometres of land.

The entirety of Khesanh province will almost certainly be going back to UA until the end of this month. AFU will also almost certainly be able to push past Krasna river, and reach Bila before the winter. That will be around another ~5%.

If UA will be able to herd RUAF into around 12% of remaining occupied territory, their advantage in long range fires will start to snowball.

Just 100-200 thousand untrained troops without tanks, and artillery would have zero chances to change the situation. It will be a slaughterhouse, especially if they will try to push conscripts into open fields in the south.

The best Russia can do is to stuff urban parts of Donetsk, and Luhansk with those new conscripts, and bid for time. Any other attempt at "Zerg Rush" is already doomed since AFU have already cleared the only remaining major area in the country where vehicles are at disadvantage. After UA will retake Starobilsk, RU will have close to none opportunities to employ infantry in the field.

If russian conscripts were ready just 2 months earlier, they could've bid for holding the Severo — Luhansk line, but now UA will have easy times cutting their supply lines in towns long the Siverskyi Donets river.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577641197186711552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577641208867872770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577629554771755008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577762604935745555

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577758214317346819

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## ziaulislam

Paul2 said:


> For Ukraine, gaining territory was relatively easy after they exhausted RUAF offensive potential.
> 
> I would argue, their overall strategic priority after March until Kharkiv offensive was to deny RU easy attack, and manoeuvre opportunities, rather than counterattack above all.
> 
> Now russians have spread themselves wide, because they themselves wanted to go on the defensive.... and here UA turned the table by throwing 10 brigades at a time enfilading thin defensive lines.
> 
> Answering your question now, the battle now will go for the next 10% of the territory, and after that, I bet, Kremlin will lose interest fighting for puny 5%, since Kremlin can't brag with a square face about wasting the entirety of world's №2 military for puny 30000 square kilometres of land.
> 
> The entirety of Khesanh province will almost certainly be going back to UA until the end of this month. AFU will also almost certainly be able to push past Krasna river, and reach Bila before the winter. That will be around another ~5%.
> 
> If UA will be able to herd RUAF into around 12% of remaining occupied territory, their advantage in long range fires will start to snowball.
> 
> Just 100-200 thousand untrained troops without tanks, and artillery would have zero chances to change the situation. It will be a slaughterhouse, especially if they will try to push conscripts into open fields in the south.
> 
> The best Russia can do is to stuff urban parts of Donetsk, and Luhansk with those new conscripts, and bid for time. Any other attempt at "Zerg Rush" is already doomed since AFU have already cleared the only remaining major area in the country where vehicles are at disadvantage. After UA will retake Starobilsk, RU will have close to none opportunities to employ infantry in the field.


Dumbest analysis I have seen.

Russia has two options

Accept defeat and give up Russia territory like at collapse USSR.
Or.

Escalate with carpet bombing and tactical nukes.

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## The SC

Paul2 said:


> For Ukraine, gaining territory was relatively easy after they exhausted RUAF offensive potential.
> 
> I would argue, their overall strategic priority after March until Kharkiv offensive was to deny RU easy attack, and manoeuvre opportunities, rather than counterattack above all.
> 
> Now russians have spread themselves wide, because they themselves wanted to go on the defensive.... and here UA turned the table by throwing 10 brigades at a time enfilading thin defensive lines.
> 
> Answering your question now, the battle now will go for the next 10% of the territory, and after that, I bet, Kremlin will lose interest fighting for puny 5%, since Kremlin can't brag with a square face about wasting the entirety of world's №2 military for puny 30000 square kilometres of land.
> 
> The entirety of Khesanh province will almost certainly be going back to UA until the end of this month. AFU will also almost certainly be able to push past Krasna river, and reach Bila before the winter. That will be around another ~5%.
> 
> If UA will be able to herd RUAF into around 12% of remaining occupied territory, their advantage in long range fires will start to snowball.
> 
> Just 100-200 thousand untrained troops without tanks, and artillery would have zero chances to change the situation. It will be a slaughterhouse, especially if they will try to push conscripts into open fields in the south.


Wrong assumptions..

There are 200 thousand Russian troops already fighting + 300 thousand volunteers being prepared to join them in about a week.. + the Wagner trying to recruit another 50 thousand..

But that is not all..the tricky part comes from these four regions officially joining the Russian federation; That means they are part of Russia now..and as we all know or some don't know..the Russian armed forces conscripts are not allowed to fight outside Russia.. but now they will fight on the new Russian territories..So at least 200 thousand of them from the 2 million Russian armed forces will join in to protect the rear of the fighting troops as well as guard important roads, ports, airports and other important facilities of the infrastructures ..That is already 750 thousand Russian troops that will be present on the war front..It is very dangerous for the Ukrainians..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577724104765050887

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577723829237026831

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## ziaulislam

The SC said:


> Wrong assumptions..
> 
> There are 200 thousand Russian troops already fighting + 300 thousand volunteers being prepared to join them in about a week.. + the Wagner trying to recruit another 50 thousand..
> 
> But that is not all..the tricky part comes from these four regions officially joining the Russian federation; That means they are part of Russia now..and as we all know or some don't know..the Russian armed forces conscripts are not allowed to fight outside Russia.. but now they will fight on the new Russian territories..So at least 200 thousand of them from the 2 million Russian armed forces will join in to protect the rear of the fighting troops as well as guard important roads, ports, airports and other important facilities of the infrastructures..That is already 750 thousand Russian troops that will be present on the war front..This is very dangerous for the Ukrainians..


The end game has been defined for the first time.

Russia has clarified what it wants to do. 

The war would have been less messy of Russia has defined those objectives earlier.


Objectives are to liberate Russian speaking areas of donbass. Russia has almost taken 70% of that area already

If it fails to take more it will escalate to carpet bombing or tactical nukes and noone will be able to do anything about it 

On top of that gas is just going to get more expensive with Opec Russia cut


----------



## Paul2

ziaulislam said:


> Escalate with carpet bombing and tactical nukes.



Carpet bombing, and nuking what? The biggest blob of forces UA uses in the field is less than a batalion.

From the very start, I believe they were very cognizant of russian area fires advantage.

They will have to expend nukes on individual companies, staying kilometres from each other. Even after they spend half of their known arsenal, I don't see how they can secure a concrete advantage.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577748803666563072
Strimosov, deputy head of the military administration of the Kherson region and one of the contributors to the annexation of Crimea to Russia:
All villages in the Kherson region will be liberated soon, and we will reach the Mykolaiv and Odessa regions. Believe me, it is only a matter of time.
@id7p_

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## 925boy

aziqbal said:


> so question is what will Russia do ?


With the mobilization of hte full 300K soldiers and some more weeks, probably 10-30, Russia will disable the low self esteem fake state of Ukraine.

Btw, i dont dislike Ukraine, i have met and know Ukranians who married Nigerians in NIgeria, and they are really nice people. i hate Ukraine's national weakness to NATO and US's pressure, because now, Ukraine is irreversibly deformed and destroyed, but no apologies for that, because Ukraine knew that would happen if it didnt negotiate seriously with Russia, which it didnt do.

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## ziaulislam

Paul2 said:


> Carpet bombing, and nuking what? The biggest blob of forces UA uses in the field is less than a batalion.
> 
> From the very start, I believe they were very cognizant of russian area fires advantage.
> 
> They will have to expend nukes on individual companies, staying kilometres from each other. Even after they spend half of their known arsenal, I don't see how they can secure a concrete advantage.


I know ukraine has no population
Yeah sure 10,000 nukes are nothing

Seems you get dumber and dumber.


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## Paul2

The other very interesting opportunity few people seem to notice, is that UA can well venture into russia, and mess up Millerovo, and Kaminsk-Shakhtinsky — two vital logistic bases which Russians have built well before the war.

If they can deny Russia the M-4 road just for a month, that will already be a knockout blow.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The longer the war, the better for Russia. With Ukrainian men drafted and serving on the front, Ukrainian women cannot get pregnant and have kids. 10 years from now, due to very low birth rate, Ukraine's population fall to less than 20 million. By then Russia's population grows to 160 million. 8 times man power advantage. The worse the man power disparity, the more Ukrainian men get drafted. The more Ukrainian men get drafted, the worse the man power disparity. Ergo, a vicious cycle.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577760071353831439

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577761849088610312

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> For Ukraine, gaining territory was relatively easy after they exhausted RUAF offensive potential.
> 
> I would argue, their overall strategic priority after March until Kharkiv offensive was to deny RU easy attack, and manoeuvre opportunities, rather than counterattack above all.
> 
> Now russians have spread themselves wide, because they themselves wanted to go on the defensive.... and here UA turned the table by throwing 10 brigades at a time enfilading thin defensive lines.
> 
> Answering your question now, the battle now will go for the next 10% of the territory, and after that, I bet, Kremlin will lose interest fighting for puny 5%, since Kremlin can't brag with a square face about wasting the entirety of world's №2 military for puny 30000 square kilometres of land.
> 
> The entirety of Khesanh province will almost certainly be going back to UA until the end of this month. AFU will also almost certainly be able to push past Krasna river, and reach Bila before the winter. That will be around another ~5%.
> 
> If UA will be able to herd RUAF into around 12% of remaining occupied territory, their advantage in long range fires will start to snowball.
> 
> Just 100-200 thousand untrained troops without tanks, and artillery would have zero chances to change the situation. It will be a slaughterhouse, especially if they will try to push conscripts into open fields in the south.
> 
> The best Russia can do is to stuff urban parts of Donetsk, and Luhansk with those new conscripts, and bid for time. Any other attempt at "Zerg Rush" is already doomed since AFU have already cleared the only remaining major area in the country where vehicles are at disadvantage. After UA will retake Starobilsk, RU will have close to none opportunities to employ infantry in the field.
> 
> If russian conscripts were ready just 2 months earlier, they could've bid for holding the Severo — Luhansk line, but now UA will have easy times cutting their supply lines in towns long the Siverskyi Donets river.


The single biggest problem for Russia is Ukraine reached local numeric superiority in Kherson and Kharkiv as of now, that's the reason why the Russia press untrained reserve into frontline with minimal training and hoping these recruit will make up the number and save the day. 

Problem is, Ukrainian force is highly mobile, as we can see from how they materialise the Kharkiv Counteroffensive. And the lack of manpower will simply not be solved by putting more body in the area and increase their troop density. As I have explained before, the problem Russia facing is not lack of resource, they are, at this point is due to inept leadership and logistic problem. 

For example, The Chechen guy said on his Telegram channel and blame the Kharkiv loss on the commander of Western Military District, because he has moved his HQ from Kupiansk to Staroblisk. But the problem is, as we can clearly see from the speed and progress of the Ukrainian maneuver, the number of 1st Guard Tank Army (which was supposed to hold Kharkiv) were just not there, and it would be stupid to post his HQ that close to the frontline and had he done that, his ENTIRE Western Military District will collapse, because he would have been captured and his HQ destroyed. 

On the other hand, Russia cannot move 300,000 troop in theatre, according to my source, a lot of these recruit would stuck at regional depot for days and sometime weeks, to be deployed, especially bad in Kherson region, because both line of communication was cut, they can some time ferry 100 men across to Kherson a day, sometime none.

The only way Russia can turn this around conventionally is for them to pull enough troop and attack on a new axis, that's would have the most concentration of force they can logistically give to make any meaningful push, but then the problem is, there are only one flank they can go, which is north thru Belarus again, and that place now have 10 Brigade waiting (as i said before there were 6 line up in the border between Lutsk to Chernihiv + 2 in Kyiv now they also have reconstituted 24 Air Assault and 106 TDF) I don't like the odds of any attempt Russia try to breach the Belarussian border again. Because even the UKrainian are preparing for it. This will make it time a lot harder than back in February this year


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> The single biggest problem for Russia is Ukraine reached local numeric superiority in Kherson and Kharkiv as of now, that's the reason why the Russia press untrained reserve into frontline with minimal training and hoping these recruit will make up the number and save the day.
> 
> Problem is, Ukrainian force is highly mobile, as we can see from how they materialise the Kharkiv Counteroffensive. And the lack of manpower will simply not be solved by putting more body in the area and increase their troop density. As I have explained before, the problem Russia facing is not lack of resource, they are, at this point is due to inept leadership and logistic problem.
> 
> For example, The Chechen guy said on his Telegram channel and blame the Kharkiv loss on the commander of Western Military District, because he has moved his HQ from Kupiansk to Staroblisk. But the problem is, as we can clearly see from the speed and progress of the Ukrainian maneuver, the number of 1st Guard Tank Army (which was supposed to hold Kharkiv) were just not there, and it would be stupid to post his HQ that close to the frontline and had he done that, his ENTIRE Western Military District will collapse, because he would have been captured and his HQ destroyed.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia cannot move 300,000 troop in theatre, according to my source, a lot of these recruit would stuck at regional depot for days and sometime weeks, to be deployed, especially bad in Kherson region, because both line of communication was cut, they can some time ferry 100 men across to Kherson a day, sometime none.
> 
> The only way Russia can turn this around conventionally is for them to pull enough troop and attack on a new axis, that's would have the most concentration of force they can logistically give to make any meaningful push, but then the problem is, there are only one flank they can go, which is north thru Belarus again, and that place now have 10 Brigade waiting (as i said before there were 6 line up in the border between Lutsk to Chernihiv + 2 in Kyiv now they also have reconstituted 24 Air Assault and 106 TDF) I don't like the odds of any attempt Russia try to breach the Belarussian border again. Because even the UKrainian are preparing for it. This will make it time a lot harder than back in February this year









If Russia is denied access to already overloaded M-4 road, and rail, they will have no choice, but to move supplies from as far away as Volgograd over rural roads, and too will be endangered by a single blown up bridge. USSR did intentionally not build too many bridges across Don river, fearing Barbarossa repeat.

They are hanging by a logistic shoestring.


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## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> With the mobilization of hte full 300K soldiers and some more weeks, probably 10-30, Russia will disable the low self esteem fake state of Ukraine.
> 
> Btw, i dont like Ukraine, i have met and know Ukranians who married Nigerians in NIgeria, i hate Ukraine's weakness in NATO and US's pressure, because now, Ukraine is irreversibly disformed and destroyed, but no apologies for that, because Ukraine knew that would happen if it didnt negotiate serious with Russia, which it didnt do.



Using 40 - 50 year old Russian kit against modern weapons , not surprised and A conscripted army will never beat a free army


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577654976255590400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577672383678320645

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> Wrong assumptions..
> 
> There are 200 thousand Russian troops already fighting + 300 thousand volunteers being prepared to join them in about a week.. + the Wagner trying to recruit another 50 thousand..
> 
> But that is not all..the tricky part comes from these four regions officially joining the Russian federation; That means they are part of Russia now..and as we all know or some don't know..the Russian armed forces conscripts are not allowed to fight outside Russia.. but now they will fight on the new Russian territories..So at least 200 thousand of them from the 2 million Russian armed forces will join in to protect the rear of the fighting troops as well as guard important roads, ports, airports and other important facilities of the infrastructures ..That is already 750 thousand Russian troops that will be present on the war front..It is very dangerous for the Ukrainians..


Russia doesnt have 2 million in its armed forces, and no 750.000 will ever be present at the frontlines in Ukraine. The russian mobilized troops will be even worse off than the ukrainian volunteers defending Ukraine back in february. The ukrainians are still learning how to do offensive operations. Those russian mobilzed battalions will have zero offensive value. If there are no trenches left to place them in, they might aswell stay in Russia.

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> Using 40 - 50 year old Russian kit against modern weapons ,


Modern or NATO?


kingQamaR said:


> not surprised and A conscripted army will never beat a free army


and weak azz NATO STILL DIDNT ENTER THE WAR? weak as fuk..but no surprise, its run out of so much ammunition, its afraid to keep supplying Ukraine cuz that's an automatic loss to China when conflict starts to have low ammunition.

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## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> Modern or NATO?
> 
> and weak azz NATO STILL DIDNT ENTER THE WAR? weak as fuk..but no surprise, its run out of so much ammunition, its afraid to keep supplying Ukraine cuz that's an automatic loss to China when conflict starts to have low ammunition.



First the premise of your question is incorrect. Tons of military equipment have come from NATO countries to Ukraine. NATO/EU countries have accepted millions of Ukrainian refugees. As others have said, however, Ukraine is not a NATO member and boots on the ground for a non-member would set a bad precedent.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> View attachment 884999
> 
> 
> If Russia is denied access to already overloaded M-4 road, and rail, they will have no choice, but to move supplies from as far away as Volgograd over rural roads, and too will be endangered by a single blown up bridge. USSR did intentionally not build too many bridges across Don river, fearing Barbarossa repeat.
> 
> They are hanging by a logistic shoestring.


Well, it's quite clear from day 1 of the mobilisation that they will have problem sending that force into war, seeing they have problem sending the initial smaller force with more time to prepare into war. 

The thing I found strange is, it's not hard to see Ukraine will focus on Donbas now because they have option (irregular warfare, siege warfare) down south, if that was me, I would focus more on sending more Russia troop to Eastern Flank, which also logically tuned because it IS the closest to Russia, yet from all the account I have follow, both Ukrainian and Russian, the Russia wasn't reinforcing the Donbas Front at all, in fact, they send more reinforcement to Bakhhmut on that pointless offensive than try to hold the line in Svatove or even Staroblisk.......

That's really scratches my head.


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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> As others have said,


others or NATO, cause you listen to NATO info with no questions asked.


kingQamaR said:


> however, Ukraine is not a NATO member and boots on the ground for a non-member would set a bad precedent.


Ukraine is not a NATO member, but Ukraine has been a POTENTIAL NATO RECRUIT, so shut the fuk up with your stupid semantics- Ukraine fights like NATO, receives NATO money, recives NATO intelligence, receieves NATO instructions....well what is it then? its already a NATO member without formally being integrated. grow up or have a real argument.

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## jhungary

A little insight on how this war will end according to the Ukraine Side






I found this interview geniune and straight forward, Zhovkva response to the interviewr question is instant, straight forward and to the point, it didn't show you he was filtering information or try to cover up his throught.


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## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> others or NATO, cause you listen to NATO info with no questions asked.
> 
> Ukraine is not a NATO member, but Ukraine has been a POTENTIAL NATO RECRUIT, so shut the fuk up with your stupid semantics- Ukraine fights like NATO, receives NATO money, recives NATO intelligence, receieves NATO instructions....well what is it then? its already a NATO member without formally being integrated. grow up or have a real argument.



You Russia troll-bots really are dredging the bottom of the barrel these days aren’t you? NATO has not and will not turn its back on Ukraine in the face of ongoing Russian criminality. Keep your black trash talk to yourself

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> You Russia troll-bots really are dredging the bottom of the barrel these days aren’t you? NATO has not and will not turn its back on Ukraine in the face of ongoing Russian criminality. Keep your black trash talk to yourself


lol, this guy is funny. 

If you ever follow Russian military blogger on Telegram, you will know even them wasn't seeing the war that much rosy anymore, and I am talking about those dude who claim they will be dancing in freedom square in Kyiv back in March and they will somehow manage to take Odessa from Ukraine

And this guy will only come to you and say "NATO is shit because they don't dare enter the war" when everyone has a working pair of eyes see NATO is not needed to even enter the war to win, why would you bother/

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> You Russia troll-bots really are dredging the bottom of the barrel these days aren’t you?


why not answer my points with real counter points? uve met someone you thought was dumb but is showing you they know more than you do on these subjects, so now yo attack, like a dog with no emotional control.


kingQamaR said:


> NATO has not and will not turn its back on Ukraine in the face of ongoing Russian criminality.


this is the same bulsht US and NATO told Afghanistan and "freedom from terrorism and Islamic radicals like the Taliban', and where did that end them? would you like to bet money NATO and Ukraine will lose at the end of this war? i could do with that extra cash.


kingQamaR said:


> Keep your black trash talk to yourself


Black trash talk? what does Black have to do with it? unless you're racist then that would make sense.



jhungary said:


> And this guy will only come to you and say "NATO is shit because they don't dare enter the war" when everyone has a working pair of eyes see NATO is not needed to even enter the war to win, why would you bother/


Afghanistan war loser trying to convince us NATO can do better against a much better army and country like Russia? trust me, you're not convincing me, your military is a bich that only fights when its against entities it can fly jets and drones WITH NO CONTEST, once its contested, NATO loses motivation, modern war cowards, i dunno which modern conflict NATO has won or will win.

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> lol, this guy is funny.
> 
> If you ever follow Russian military blogger on Telegram, you will know even them wasn't seeing the war that much rosy anymore, and I am talking about those dude who claim they will be dancing in freedom square in Kyiv back in March and they will somehow manage to take Odessa from Ukraine
> 
> And this guy will only come to you and say "NATO is shit because they don't dare enter the war" when everyone has a working pair of eyes see NATO is not needed to even enter the war to win, why would you bother/



Unbelievable mate! How many times has it been said on here by you and other posters 

I really give up - with some now 

NATO has said it will never intervene on behalf of Ukraine.

The only way it will get involved is if Russia threatens to attack one of NATO’s members. It is a defensive alliance, after all.

And I doubt that Putin’s that stupid. Why is it hard for some to understand, this important fact ? 

for love of god

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> why not answer my points with real counter points? uve met someone you thought was dumb but is showing you they know more than you do on these subjects, so now yo attack, like a dog with no emotional control.
> 
> this is the same bulsht US and NATO told Afghanistan and "freedom from terrorism and Islamic radicals like the Taliban', and where did that end them? would you like to bet money NATO and Ukraine will lose at the end of this war? i could do with that extra cash.
> 
> Black trash talk? what does Black have to do with it? unless you're racist then that would make sense.
> 
> 
> Afghanistan war loser trying to convince us NATO can do better against a much better army and country like Russia? trust me, you're not convincing me, your military is a bich that only fights when its against entities it can fly jets and drones WITH NO CONTEST, once its contested, NATO loses motivation, modern war cowards, i dunno which modern conflict NATO has won or will win.


NATO joining the fight in Ukraine would be exactly like that - jets and drones operating with no contest, decimating the russian frontline. We all know it, even you. You just like to troll.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> NATO joining the fight in Ukraine would be exactly like that - jets and drones operating with no contest, decimating the russian frontline. We all know it, even you. You just like to troll.



It would make a good movie but NATO males are too cuck to fight these days. They are not their ancestors. They are too spoiled, lazy, dumb.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577774095642533889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577779489706328066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577798471003897862

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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> Unbelievable mate! How many times has it been said on here by you and other posters
> 
> I really give up - with some now
> 
> NATO has said it will never intervene on behalf of Ukraine.
> 
> The only way it will get involved is if Russia threatens to attack one of NATO’s members. It is a defensive alliance, after all.
> 
> And I doubt that Putin’s that stupid. Why is it hard for some to understand, this important fact ?
> 
> for love of god



Don't waste your time on them, bro. No matter what, you'll never convince them, even if you NLAW them to the face.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577762546391650314

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> lol, this guy is funny.
> 
> If you ever follow Russian military blogger on Telegram, you will know even them wasn't seeing the war that much rosy anymore, and I am talking about those dude who claim they will be dancing in freedom square in Kyiv back in March and they will somehow manage to take Odessa from Ukraine
> 
> And this guy will only come to you and say "NATO is shit because they don't dare enter the war" when everyone has a working pair of eyes see NATO is not needed to even enter the war to win, why would you bother/



Have you considered that Beijing is being paid to spin agenda not of Kremlin itself, but some general division of Russian establishment?

They are staked so much in showing Kremlin that it is _their_ goons still keep attacking: then, Bakhmut suddenly begins to make sense.

The pro-Beijing faction in Moscow will greatly benefit the longer Russian elites believe in that rosy picture, and more they hook them onto copium.

The more they sleepwalk into no-return territory, the higher value would be Beijing's offers: personal security for their offsprings in China, shopping bonanza to sanctioned elite members, purchase of their illiquid assets, and maybe even protection from putin's long hand should they defect for good.


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## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> NATO joining the fight in Ukraine would be exactly like that - jets and drones operating with no contest, decimating the russian frontline.


but this is a fantasy/ FAKE HYPOTHETICAL, so other than it being just your random brainwashed wish, its 100% bulshit, Euros and Americans are afraid to fight competent enemies who will kill them, even if they havea good chance to win, they just dont wanna die, Iran knows this SO WELL.


MeFishToo said:


> We all know it, even you. You just like to troll.


you call me a troll when u cant counter my point, thats ok, just confirms i was right from the get go.



kingQamaR said:


> NATO has said it will never intervene on behalf of Ukraine.


this only proves you bought NATO's lie.


kingQamaR said:


> The only way it will get involved is if Russia threatens to attack one of NATO’s members.


ITS already involved- can you define "involved" by NATO here? tehy supply weapons, intelligence, assets, money (even money they dont have aka loans), and thats not "getting involved"? you must have a weird azz definition of military intervention.


kingQamaR said:


> It is a defensive alliance, after all.


distraction point


kingQamaR said:


> Why is it hard for some to understand, this important fact ?


for some or for you?


kingQamaR said:


> for love of god


for love of common sense.


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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> Have you considered that Beijing is being paid to spin agenda not of Kremlin itself, but some general division of Russian establishment?
> 
> They are staked so much in showing Kremlin that it is _their_ goons still keep attacking: then, Bakhmut suddenly begins to make sense.
> 
> The pro-Beijing faction in Moscow will greatly benefit the longer Russian elites believe in that rosy picture, and more they hook them onto copium.
> 
> The more they sleepwalk into no-return territory, the higher value would be Beijing's offers: personal security for their offsprings in China, shopping bonanza to sanctioned elite members, purchase of their illiquid assets, and maybe even protection from putin's long hand should they defect for good.



Bingo:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577753851544977411


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## sammuel

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577762546391650314




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577758753683906560

~

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Unbelievable mate! How many times has it been said on here by you and other posters
> 
> I really give up - with some now
> 
> NATO has said it will never intervene on behalf of Ukraine.
> 
> The only way it will get involved is if Russia threatens to attack one of NATO’s members. It is a defensive alliance, after all.
> 
> And I doubt that Putin’s that stupid. Why is it hard for some to understand, this important fact ?
> 
> for love of god


Because people like this is stupid, and because they don't have anywhere to go. 
They can't blame Russia when things do not turn out well, they can't blame the US, because they didn't really involve in the war. So what can they do to save face? That's NATO wasn't in the war.

That's just last straw of the strawmen argument. These people would want to have WW3 started rather than admit that Russia is not doing too well, again these people have nothing to lose, unlike the Russian blogger who actually have something to lose, that's why they are doing that.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577817449155674112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577816992131735552


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Have you considered that Beijing is being paid to spin agenda not of Kremlin itself, but some general division of Russian establishment?
> 
> They are staked so much in showing Kremlin that it is _their_ goons still keep attacking: then, Bakhmut suddenly begins to make sense.
> 
> The pro-Beijing faction in Moscow will greatly benefit the longer Russian elites believe in that rosy picture, and more they hook them onto copium.
> 
> The more they sleepwalk into no-return territory, the higher value would be Beijing's offers: personal security for their offsprings in China, shopping bonanza to sanctioned elite members, purchase of their illiquid assets, and maybe even protection from putin's long hand should they defect for good.


Well, that would only work if they can paint a rosy picture to the Russian, not wherever 925boy is to support Russia overseas, the problem is, when the Pro-Russia lost hope because the inability of Kremlin to do something, that is the problem not how Overseas people see the conflict in Russia. 

I mean, you need the Russian people to believe, to live on that copium in order to suck Russia dry from China, otherwise when the recruit don't want to go, and when the strategic within Russia all falling apart, it does not good on how Syrian or Iranian or North Korean cheer for Russia, it will still fail.


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 5​Oct 5, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Katherine Lawlor, Riley Bailey, Grace Mappes, George Barros, and Frederick W. Kagan
October 5, 8:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukraine’s northern Kharkiv counteroffensive has not yet culminated after one month of successful operations and is now advancing into western Luhansk Oblast. *Ukrainian forces captured Hrekivka and Makiivka in western Luhansk Oblast (approximately 20 km southwest of Svatove) on October 5.[1] Luhansk Oblast Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Ukrainian forces have begun liberating unspecified villages in Luhansk Oblast on October 5.[2] Ukrainian forces began the maneuver phase of their counteroffensive in Kharkiv Oblast— which has now reached Luhansk Oblast—on September 6.[3] Russian forces have failed to hold the banks of the Oskil and Siverskyi Donets rivers and leverage them as natural boundaries to prevent Ukrainian forces from projecting into vulnerable sections of Russian-occupied northeast Ukraine. The terrain in western Luhansk is suitable for the kind of rapid maneuver warfare that Ukrainian forces used effectively in eastern Kharkiv Oblast in early September, and there are no indications from open sources that the Russian military has substantially reinforced western Luhansk Oblast. Ukraine’s ongoing northern and southern counteroffensives are likely forcing the Kremlin to prioritize the defense of one area of operations at the expense of another, potentially increasing the likelihood of Ukrainian success in both.
*Russian forces conducted a Shahed-136 drone strike against Bila Tserkva, Kyiv Oblast, on October 5, the first Russian strike in Kyiv Oblast since June.[4] *Footage from the aftermath of the strike shows apparent damage to residential structures.[5] Russian milbloggers lauded the destructive capability of the Shahed-136 drones but questioned why Russian forces are using such technology to target areas deep in the Ukrainian rear and far removed from active combat zones. That decision fits into the larger pattern of Russian forces expending high-precision technology on areas of Ukraine that hold limited operational significance.[6]
*Russian President Vladimir Putin took measures to assert full Russian control over the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP). *Putin issued a decree transferring control of the ZNPP to Russian state company Rosenergoatom on October 5.[7] The ZNPP’s current Ukrainian operator Energoatom announced that its president assumed the position of General Director of the ZNPP on October 5.[8] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Russian officials are coercing ZNPP workers into obtaining Russian passports and signing employment contracts with Rosenergoatom.[9] International Atomic Energy Agency General Director Rafael Grossi plans to meet with both Ukrainian and Russian officials this week in Kyiv and Moscow to discuss the creation of a “protective zone” around the ZNPP.[10] Russian officials will likely attempt to coerce the IAEA in upcoming discussions and negotiations into recognizing Rosenergoatom’s official control of the ZNPP, and by implication Russia’s illegal annexation of Zaporizhia Oblast.
*The head of the Chechen Republic, Ramzan Kadyrov, announced that Putin awarded him the rank of colonel general on October 5.*[11] This promotion is particularly noteworthy in the context of the recent controversy surrounding Kadyrov and his direct criticism of Central Military District (CMD) Colonel General Aleksander Lapin, which ISW has previously analyzed.[12] Although ISW has not found official confirmation of Kadyrov’s promotion, Putin may have made the decision to elevate Kadyrov’s rank in order to maintain the support of Kadyrov and Chechen forces while simultaneously pushing back on the Russian Ministry of Defense and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, from whom Putin seems to be rhetorically distancing himself. Kadyrov’s new rank may be a sign that Putin is willing to appease the more radical and vocal calls of the _siloviki _base at the expense of the conventional military establishment.
*Increasing domestic critiques of Russia’s “partial mobilization” are likely driving Putin to scapegoat the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and specifically Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.* Putin deferred mobilization for all students, including part-time and masters students, via a decree on October 5.[13] Putin told Russian outlets that because “the Ministry of Defense did not make timely changes to the legal framework on the list of those who are not subject to mobilization, adjustments have to be made.”[14] That direct critique of the MoD is also an implicit critique of Shoigu, whom Putin appears to be setting up to take the fall for the failures of Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. The chairperson of the Russian State Duma Defense Committee, Colonel General (Ret.) Andrey Kartapolov, also criticized the MoD on Russian state television on October 5. Kartapolov said that all Russians know the MoD is lying and must stop, but that message is not reaching “individual leaders,” another jab at Shoigu.[15] One Russian milblogger claimed that Kartapolov’s comments demonstrate that Shoigu will soon be “demolished” and “recognized as the main culprit” of Russia’s military failures. The milblogger reminded his readers that it was the Russian MoD and its head that made an “invaluable and huge contribution to the fact that we are now on the verge of a military-political catastrophe.”[16] Another milblogger defended Wagner financier Yevgeny Prigozhin and Chechen head Ramzan Kadyrov for criticizing the MoD, applauding them for driving necessary change.[17] Kadyrov’s announcement that Putin awarded him the rank of Colonel-General is similarly indicative that Putin is willing to appease the _siloviki _base that has taken continued rhetorical swings at the MoD establishment.
Putin will likely hold off on firing Shoigu for as long as he feels he can in order to continue to blame Shoigu for ongoing military failures and to build up support among other factions. Shoigu’s replacement will need to take responsibility for failures that occur after his tenure begins. Putin is already working to improve his support among the nationalist milbloggers and the _siloviki _such as Prigozhin and Kadyrov. Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov old reporters on October 5 that Prigozhin “makes a great contribution within his capabilities” to efforts in Russia and Ukraine and declined to answer questions surrounding Prigozhin’s critiques of government officials.[18] A milblogger emphasized on October 5 that Putin “regularly hosts military correspondents, carefully reads their reports, asks the right questions, and receives objective answers,” implicitly contrasting that relationship with the dishonest way in which milbloggers believe the MoD interacts with Putin.[19]
*Russian authorities detained the manager of several milblogger telegram channels on October 5, indicating that the Kremlin is likely setting limits on what criticism is allowed in the domestic Russian information space. *Alexander Khunshtein, the deputy secretary of the General Council of Putin’s political party, United Russia, published footage on October 5 showing Russian authorities detaining Alexei Slobodenyuk.*[20]* Slobodenyuk is an employee of Wagner financier Yevgeny Prigozhin’s Patriot media group and the manager of several milblogger telegrams, the most prominent of which are “Release Z Kraken” and “Skaner.” The telegram channel “Skaner” has featured criticism of major state officials and military personnel, the most prominent of whom are Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, State Duma Speaker Vyacheslav Volodin, and Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov. Russian authorities detained Slobodenyuk on accusations of fraud. His detention suggests that the Kremlin is attempting to set boundaries for which criticism is allowed in the information space and on which high-ranking officials milbloggers and journalists can criticize—Defense Minister Shoigu, Putin‘s likely scapegoat-in-waiting, now appears to be fair game, whereas officials close to Putin such as Lavrov and Putin’s spokesperson are off-limits.
*Key Takeaways*

*The Ukrainian counteroffensive that began in Kharkiv Oblast has not yet culminated and is actively pushing into Luhansk Oblast.*
*Russian President Vladimir Putin took measures to assert full Russian control over the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP).*
*Russian forces conducted the first strike on Kyiv Oblast since June with a Shahed-136 drone.*
*The Head of the Chechen Republic, Ramzan Kadyrov, announced that Putin awarded him the rank of Colonel-General.*
*Increasing domestic critiques of Russia’s “partial mobilization” are likely driving Putin to scapegoat the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and specifically Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.*
*Ukrainian troops likely consolidated positions and regrouped in northern Kherson Oblast after making major gains over in the last 48 hours.*
*Russian sources reported Ukrainian offensive preparations northwest, west, and northeast of Kherson City.*
*Russian forces continued ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on October 5.*
*Russian milbloggers continued to criticize the implementation of the Russian “partial mobilization” on October 5.*
*Russian citizens who are economically disadvantaged and ethnic minority Russian communities continue to bear a disproportionate burden in mobilization rates and casualty rates according to investigative reports, suggesting that Russian authorities may be deliberately placing poor and minority Russian citizens in more dangerous positions than well-off or ethnic Russians.*
*Russian President Vladimir Putin completed the final formality in the process for illegally annexing Russian-occupied Ukrainian territories on October 5.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Oskil River-Kreminna Line)*
Ukrainian forces made gains in northwestern Luhansk Oblast near Svatove on October 5. Social media imagery shows Ukrainian troops in Hrekivka and Makiivka, two settlements in Luhansk Oblast 20km southwest of Svatove.[21] Russian sources continued to discuss Ukrainian attacks along the R66 (Svatove Kreminna) highway with concern and stated that Russian troops, reportedly including elements of the 3rd Motorized Rifle Division, are preparing defenses in Svatove, Kreminna, and along the R66.[22] Russian forces are likely focusing on the defense of the Svatove-Kreminna frontline because they are increasingly concerned that Ukrainian penetration of this line will allow Ukrainian troops to threaten Starobilsk, a key Russian logistics hub about 50km east of Svatove, through which run many ground lines of communication (GLOCs) that are essential to Russian operations in Luhansk Oblast. Access to the R66 will likely also allow Ukrainian troops to push south from Svatove to Kreminna, Rubizhne, Severodonetsk, and Lysychansk, which would likely have substantial informational effects considering the protracted and costly Russian campaign to capture Severodonetsk in June.
Ukrainian troops also likely continued advances in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast near the Kupyansk area on October 5. A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces advanced in the direction of Orlianka (8km east of Petropavlivka) through a “grey zone” between Petropavlivka and Vilshana.[23] The milblogger claimed that Ukrainian troops are reinforcing the Kupyansk area to prepare for further eastward advances.[24]



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Ukrainian forces likely consolidated positions in northern Kherson Oblast and regrouped on October 5 as Russian troops attempted to recover from recent Ukrainian advances. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command confirmed on October 4 that Ukrainian troops liberated Lyubimivka, Khreshchenivka, Zolta Balka, Bilyaivka, Ukrainka, Velyka Oleksandrivka, Mala Oleksandrivka and Davydiv Brid as ISW assessed on October 4.[25] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that recent Ukrainian success are forcing Russian troops to evacuate the wounded to crossings on the Dnipro River and that Russian forces moved over 150 wounded servicemen to Vesele, located across the Dnipro from Nova Kakhkovka.[26] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command also claimed that Russian forces are destroying their own ammunition reserves during withdrawal, likely to prevent Ukrainian forces from capturing ammunition and equipment as they advance.[27] Russian milbloggers previously criticized poorly conducted Russian withdrawals and routs in Kharkiv Oblast in early September that saw much Russian equipment and supplies abandoned and lost to Ukrainian forces. 
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian troops are preparing for offensive operations northwest of Kherson City on October 5. Several milbloggers reported that Ukrainian troops are building up their grouping around Posad Pokrovske (25km northwest of Kherson City), Oleksandrivka (35km west of Kherson City) and Ternovi Pody (25km northwest of Kherson City).[28] Several sources also reported fighting near Snihurivka (45km northeast of Kherson City).[29] Social media users amplified claims that Russian troops have entirely withdrawn from Snihurivka, which were refuted by Mykolaiv Oblast Head Vitaly Kim, who noted that Russian army officers left the city but that Russian troops remain.[30] Based on these conflicting reports, it is highly likely that Russian command may be withdrawing from Snihurivka in anticipation of Ukrainian attacks but that the core Russian contingent remains within the city. Russian sources are evidently focused on Ukrainian activity northwest of Kherson City due to concerns that Ukrainian forces are setting conditions for advances directly towards Kherson City. Russian forces’ loss of Snihurivka would be a significant development given the city’s position on the western side of the Inhulets River. Russian forces’ loss of control over the Inhulets River would further isolate Kherson City from the east and increase the city’s vulnerability to a Ukrainian encirclement.
Ukrainian troops continued the interdiction campaign in Kherson Oblast on October 5 to support ongoing ground offensives. Ukrainian sources reiterated that Ukrainian strikes targeted Russian logistics, transportation, and command assets and concentration areas throughout Kherson Oblast.[31] Geolocated footage shows the aftermath of a Ukrainian strike on a hotel in Kherson City that reportedly housed Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) officers.[32] Social media users additionally reported Ukrainian strikes near the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant in Nova Kakhkovka, about 60km east of Kherson City.[33]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on October 5. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults southeast of Siversk near Vyimka (8km southeast of Siversk) and Spirne (13km southeast of Siversk); on and south of Bakhmut near Zaitseve (8km southeast of Bakhmut), Mayorsk (20km south of Bakhmut), and Kurdiumivka (13km southwest of Bakhmut); and north of Bakhmut near Bakhmutske (10km northeast of Bakhmut).[34] The Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic Denis Pushilin made continued claims that Ukrainian forces are retreating from positions in Bakhmut, although ISW cannot independently verify Russian claims of Ukrainian withdrawals.[35] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground assaults south of Avdiivka near Novomykhailivka (36km southwest of Avdiivka).[36] Russian milbloggers claimed that Russian forces pushed through Ukrainian defensive positions near Donetsk City and are attempting to advance on Pervomaiske and Vodiane.[37] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces also repelled Russian ground attacks near Vuhledar.[38] The Ukrainian General staff reported that Russian forces continued routine indirect fire along the line of contact in Donetsk Oblast on October 5.[39]




*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued to conduct artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole and in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv Oblasts on October 5.[40] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck infrastructure in Zaporizhzhia City with Iskander missiles.[41] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces struck a Ukrainian military hangar at the Voznesensk Airfield in Mykolaiv Oblast.[42] Ukrainian Mykolaiv Regional State Administration Head Vitaly Kim reported that Russian forces continued to target unspecified areas in Mykolaiv Oblast with Shahed-136 kamikaze drones.[43] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces continued to target port infrastructure in Ochakiv, Mykolaiv Oblast.[44] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces conducted artillery and MLRS strikes against settlements on the northern bank of the Dnipro River in Nikopol, Marhanets, and Chervonohryhorivka, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.[45] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces destroyed a Russian S-300 system in Tokmak, Zaporizhia Oblast.[46] The Russian MoD and occupation authorities claimed that Ukrainian forces shelled the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) and the Zaporizhzhia Thermal Power Plant, and occupation official Vladimir Rogov claimed that the shelling damaged a tower at the Zaporizhzhia Thermal Power Plant.[47]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Russian milbloggers continued to criticize the implementation of the Russian “partial mobilization” on October 5. One milblogger criticized the MoD’s “blatant negligence” regarding mobilized personnel across the country, including in Omsk, Novosibirsk, and Voronezh oblasts and in Khabarovsk Krai.[48] The milblogger reported that three mobilized personnel in the Yelanksy, Sverdlovsk Oblast garrison have already died, implying that poor living conditions and general lawlessness among mobilized personnel killed them.[49] Social media users circulated videos of Russian personnel in an unspecified location claiming that they are living on the streets in the cold without a commander, tents, or food.[50] One milblogger reported that mobilized personnel in Omsk Oblast are trained in terrible conditions at overcrowded training grounds and are quartered in hangars without electricity or heat despite below-freezing temperatures.[51] Another milblogger shared a statement from a mobilized Moscow man who said that more than half of his unit has the coronavirus or another respiratory disease and that they went to southern Russia, spent several days there, and then were shipped back north.[52] The Russian MoD attempted to defend itself from these accusations and stated on October 5 that mobilized personnel from Amur Oblast began their training with “experienced instructors...who have experience in participating in modern armed conflicts.”[53]
Russian forces reportedly continued to rush newly-mobilized men to the frontlines on October 4 and 5. Ukraine’s Center for Strategic Communications reported on October 4 that a mobilized Russian man from Orsk joined the 15th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade to fight near Olhivka, possibly the village near Beryslav in Kherson, within five days of receiving his mobilization notice. The soldier reportedly surrendered to Ukrainian forces using Ukraine’s “I Want to Live” hotline.[54] The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) People’s Militia posted footage of mobilized Russian personnel training in an unspecified part of Russian-occupied Kherson Oblast on October 5 but did not clarify whether the mobilized personnel are originally from Kherson Oblast, other Russian-occupied Ukrainian territories like the DNR, or Russia itself.[55
Russian citizens who are economically disadvantaged and ethnic minority Russian communities continue to bear a disproportionate burden in mobilization rates and casualty rates according to investigative reports, suggesting that Russian authorities may be deliberately placing poor and minority Russian citizens in more dangerous positions than well-off or ethnic Russians. The Georgia-based Conflict Intelligence Team (CIT) and the Russian language outlet Important Stories released a study of mobilization numbers and mortality rate increases by Russian region on October 5, citing local officials and public media.[56] They calculated that Russian authorities have mobilized at least 213,000 men across 53 regions but were unable to find data for an additional 32 regions, suggesting that many more men have already been mobilized in the two weeks since September 21, when Russian President Vladimir Putin announced his “partial mobilization.” Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu claimed on October 4 that 200,000 men have already been mobilized.[57] CIT noted that the regions that are reporting disproportionate shares of mobilization are consistently the poorest and most majority-minority parts of Russia. Moscow and St Petersburg showed the lowest mortality rate increases since the war began, with a 0% and 3% increase respectively, whereas the Republic of Dagestan had the highest reported increase in the male mortality rate: 105%. CIT analysts suggested that the Kremlin is targeting regions that are less likely to protest disproportionate mobilization rates to generate additional manpower without increasing domestic instability.
Russian civilians and non-governmental organizations are continuing to fundraise to provide basic supplies for mobilized Russian servicemembers. The governor of Kaluga Oblast reportedly canceled the oblast’s New Year’s celebration (a major holiday in Russia) after a public petition called on him to divert New Year’s funds to mobilized residents instead.[58] A Russian outlet reported that other petitions are circulating across the country, but other celebrations have not yet been canceled. A Russian milblogger shared a video on October 5 purporting to show equipment purchased through a crowdfunding initiative of the Interregional Public Organization.[59] The milblogger added that the organization intends to buy winter clothes, generators, blankets, drones, communications equipment, and camouflage nets for Russian forces and the Russian proxy Luhansk People’s Militia.
Russian officials are attempting to publicize support to the families of forcibly-mobilized men, likely to improve the narrative surrounding mobilization and to reduce resistance from mobilized men with families. Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin signed a decree on October 5 ordering the Moscow City government to provide support to the families of mobilized men.[60] That support includes vocational training and assistance, free meals, free daycare, and additional social services for elderly and disabled family members.
Russian defense officials are continuing to recruit Russian prisoners to replenish depleted Russian forces in Ukraine. Ukraine’s General Staff reported on October 5 that over 650 prisoners from the strict-regime correctional colonies of the Stavropol region agreed to take part in combat operations in Ukraine.[61]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Russian President Vladimir Putin completed the final formality in the process of illegally annexing Russian-occupied Ukrainian territories on October 5. Putin signed four federal laws ratifying the treaties on the entry of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR), Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR), Zaporizhia Oblast, and Kherson Oblast into the Russian Federation.[62] The laws created new legal entities for the Russian-occupied territories and granted the current occupation administration heads the status of acting head or governor for their respective territories.[63]
Russian and occupation administration officials formalized administrative measures to clarify the border procedures between Russian-occupied Ukrainian territories and Russia on October 5. Russian sources reported that Russian officials now recognize the borders between the Russian-occupied Ukrainian territories and the Russian Federation as internal administrative borders, as opposed to international borders.[64] Russian sources also reported that Russian and occupation administration officials eliminated customs controls between the Russian Federation and Russian-occupied territories.[65] However, Russian sources reported that Russian authorities will continue to operate checkpoints along these borders for security purposes.[66]

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## alimobin memon

Post by @jamal18

What is happening is mind boggling, a quantum shift.

1. The Saudis/ UAE not even picking up the phone when Biden rings.

2. Selling oil to the Chinese in Yuan.

3. Consulting with Russia about a cut in oil production at a time when the US is demanding an increase.

The US has deemed Saudi actions as 'aggressive' towards them. The American's most loyal and servile vassal in the middle east being quantified by the US as an adversary.

We are truly living in exceptional times. ' Decades go by when nothing happens, then in the space of weeks decades go by.'


To sum it up russians are winning in international influence and diplomacy. That is only possible when they are doing something right in new russian federation areas... the media and news is so controlled by west that it feels like next week ukrainians will be in Moscow

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

alimobin memon said:


> 1. The Saudis/ UAE not even picking up the phone when Biden rings.



Arabs are sick and tired of Anglo bullying. Anglos are cruel. Anglos used nuclear weapons on Japanese civilians.


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, that would only work if they can paint a rosy picture to the Russian, not wherever 925boy is to support Russia overseas, the problem is, when the Pro-Russia lost hope because the inability of Kremlin to do something, that is the problem not how Overseas people see the conflict in Russia.
> 
> I mean, you need the Russian people to believe, to live on that copium in order to suck Russia dry from China, otherwise when the recruit don't want to go, and when the strategic within Russia all falling apart, it does not good on how Syrian or Iranian or North Korean cheer for Russia, it will still fail.



No russian military officer will believe that Chinese, or Iranian cheering give them any more chances to win, let alone in any kind of WW3 like scenario.

But if there is a special interest group within RU establishment wanting that, they would want Kremlin to believe into some illusion of progress, so Kremlin will keep offering more, and more to China, and Iran.

The more Tehran, and Beijing believe that putin will go on to the end, the more would they be able to gain.


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## khansaheeb

mike2000 is back said:


> Superboy. Can you please just remain silent for a few days/weeks(im sure i speak for most members on here)? You really hurt our IQ, give us time to heal it. The amount of stupid stuffs you say makes me wonder if you were born prematurely. Not even chinese members on here(despite their nationalism) want to be associated with you. 🤦🏽 and I don't like being rude or make personal attacks, but you make the most silly comments on here. 😵‍💫


If you can't tolerate alternative views then join the Israeli forums.

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## Wood

Winter has not even started and the mobilized Russian civilians are already throwing a tantrum. This will really be a success

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## aviator_fan

Viet said:


> it said they are the best troops Moscow can field? Stalingrad moment with the deutsche Wehrmacht, the 6th. Army


I believe one of them is the unit that was the Army group to defend Moscow. I don't think it gets better than that



Paul2 said:


> There is a nuance to this:
> 
> North of Ukraine will indeed become impassable for vehicles soon, but South will actually become more availing to mechanised combat because tilled fields will get frozen, and able to support a weight of an MBT.


You are right. This is why there was a narrow window left in Feb when Russia launched the attack. Ground had to be solid enough to support movement of armor and that clock was running out.

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> usa also did those , the question is did they actually come in effect how many banking transaction happened after usa left JCPOA , i tell you instex only used once


What the hell are you doing on this thread? Are you 'watch me Iran has an issue and the world did wrong, but Iran is really good at using force against its women' screaming: go to another thread about the wrongs the world has done (and it has). Don't ruin this debate on whats going on in the real war



-=virus=- said:


> have no faith in the USA, not while that dementia ridden corpse, Biden is POTUS


You don't get to choose Biden, the Americans did. And as it relates to this thread, its Biden's predecessor was ready to drop everything in Ukraine. They would have been cannon fodder had Putin attacked before 2020

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine has 30 million people. Russia has 150 million people. Russia is willing to sacrifice 30 million people to annex Kiev. Russia still have 120 million people left.


BS argument as usual: Israel prevailed over Arabs who were 10x bigger. So go with your wishful dreams...



mike2000 is back said:


> None
> Bullshit, zelesnky is as much a US puppet/client as Saudi Arabia leader is a US puppet. Those who believe the former are part of those who also believe the later , that's all I can say. Lol we have seen that here on PDF several.times as well. To some, basically every Arab country/gulf state is a US/Western puppet/client state with no independence of actions whatsoever. Lol


Saudi Arabia is a puppet no more: they just dropped oil production as part of OPEC+ much to chagrin of US and EU who perceive it as a sign that it supports Russia

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## 925boy

PakFactor said:


> Don't waste your time on them, bro.


thats exactly the same conclusion i came to about your opinions on the Ukraine war. When do you envision Ukraine gaining back all its territory from Russia?

lmao.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> Modern or NATO?
> 
> and weak azz NATO STILL DIDNT ENTER THE WAR? weak as fuk..but no surprise, its run out of so much ammunition, its afraid to keep supplying Ukraine cuz that's an automatic loss to China when conflict starts to have low ammunition.


Afraid? Have you bugged the rooms of every Defence Minister to provide this basis? Or is there a drop in weapons supplies to Ukraine. Every week there is more equipment coming its way.

Its fine for you to support the side you are supporting and hoping it wins: but stop acting like a Russian broadcast channel with worthless crap about running out of ammo.



925boy said:


> thats exactly the same conclusion i came to about your opinions on the Ukraine war. When do you envision Ukraine gaining back all its territory from Russia?
> 
> lmao.


LMAO to this: may be Ukraine does not need to gain 100% of its territory back. It gets 50%, but the other goal of permanently humiliating Russia, eliminating its global power status, dividing it internally, and economically moving it back 30 years may be good enough. Oh and it will get Russia's frozen funds to pay for its reconstruction to really drive the point home



925boy said:


> thats exactly the same conclusion i came to about your opinions on the Ukraine war. When do you envision Ukraine gaining back all its territory from Russia?
> 
> lmao.


LMAO to this: may be Ukraine does not need to gain 100% of its territory back. It gets 50%, but the other goal of permanently humiliating Russia, eliminating its global power status, dividing it internally, and economically moving it back 30 years may be good enough. Oh and it will get Russia's frozen funds to pay for its reconstruction to really drive the point home


925boy said:


> why not answer my points with real counter points? uve met someone you thought was dumb but is showing you they know more than you do on these subjects, so now yo attack, like a dog with no emotional control.
> 
> this is the same bulsht US and NATO told Afghanistan and "freedom from terrorism and Islamic radicals like the Taliban', and where did that end them? would you like to bet money NATO and Ukraine will lose at the end of this war? i could do with that extra cash.
> 
> Black trash talk? what does Black have to do with it? unless you're racist then that would make sense.
> 
> 
> Afghanistan war loser trying to convince us NATO can do better against a much better army and country like Russia? trust me, you're not convincing me, your military is a bich that only fights when its against entities it can fly jets and drones WITH NO CONTEST, once its contested, NATO loses motivation, modern war cowards, i dunno which modern conflict NATO has won or will win.


Just like (I hope you don't) clean our latrines ourselves and have modern plumbing to flush the extrement away, so too has NATO's version of modern warfare evolved. The entire concept of connected operations in an uncontested. If you can do that well, then why would you fight a war like its 1940s.

Russia is fighting the war the equivalent of way of cleaning out your latrine. So yes you can criticize NATO for havine flushing toilets. But its working and Russia's latrine cleaning war doctrine is getting its *** handed. And people like you are bitter about NATO's doctrine so you keep on coming back to Afghanistan. 

Should NATO just put out a press release to acknoledge 'hey we lost we left Afghanistan' so people like you then can focus just on this war.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukraine versus Russia is like England versus France in Hundred Years War. England beat France in Hundred Years War despite a third of the population. Same situation with Ukraine beat Russia despite a third of the population.

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## srshkmr

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine versus Russia is like England versus France in Hundred Years War. England beat France in Hundred Years War despite a third of the population. Same situation with Ukraine beat Russia despite a third of the population.


are you switching sides now?

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## aviator_fan

alimobin memon said:


> Post by @jamal18
> 
> What is happening is mind boggling, a quantum shift.
> 
> 1. The Saudis/ UAE not even picking up the phone when Biden rings.
> 
> 2. Selling oil to the Chinese in Yuan.
> 
> 3. Consulting with Russia about a cut in oil production at a time when the US is demanding an increase.
> 
> The US has deemed Saudi actions as 'aggressive' towards them. The American's most loyal and servile vassal in the middle east being quantified by the US as an adversary.
> 
> We are truly living in exceptional times. ' Decades go by when nothing happens, then in the space of weeks decades go by.'
> 
> 
> To sum it up russians are winning in international influence and diplomacy. That is only possible when they are doing something right in new russian federation areas... the media and news is so controlled by west that it feels like next week ukrainians will be in Moscow


This is not about Russia gaining any influence. OPEC's entire mission is to protect its revenue by having a certain minimum floor of oil price.

This is what it does. It hasn't changed oil production since 2020 so its been out of the news. Sometimes its moves are successful, sometimes not. For 7 years before 2020 it was trying to keep the oil price about $85 but it failed year after year.

It has made its first decision to drop production in a long time as part of protecting its oil revenue. They are not doing any favors for Russia. Its self-survival and preservation.

The US and EU will and have clearly interpreted this as a hostile move. What is different here is while they are taking an action they always take, its being perceived as hostile because of its timing.

And stop spreading lies: White House has categorically stated Biden did not call them. WH was involved. So unless MBS is your brother-in-law and shared with you the audio clip, stop fabricating crap that takes away from the argument.

Now US and EU are evaluating options including for the first time removal OPEC's price setting exemption from anti-trust. It may not go that far.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine versus Russia is like England versus France in Hundred Years War. England beat France in Hundred Years War despite a third of the population. Same situation with Ukraine beat Russia despite a third of the population.


Sounds like hte hope of a supporter of the losing side that keeps on cutting and pasting the same useless thought


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

srshkmr said:


> are you switching sides now?



Ukraine beat Russia the same way England beat France. Better leadership. Better tactics.

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## aviator_fan

Two points I have been pondering:
1. US released as a statement that the assassination (via car bomb) in Moscow was sanctioned by Ukraine. I am not sure what the value of releasing that statement was other than a deliberate measure to be in a position to at least tell Ukraine a month from now to settle and that its aid is not unlimited.

2. All this myth about Russia's ability to wage a cyber war in a full scale battle turned out to be hollow. Seems like Russians cyber ops are good as common criminals but they weren't able to overwhelm Ukrainians. Granted Ukranians are smart in that department and got help from US military and Microsoft to where Russian's weren't even able to disrupt the train system (despite multiple attempts). Looks like Russia cyber forces were as incompetent as its air and ground forces. My sympathy is with the families of the young men that went and did this out of duty for their country.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

drone attack


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577849723083542533

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia has 151 million people compared to Ukraine's 37 million. Russia will sacrifice 30 million people to take Kiev city.

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## Hack-Hook

aviator_fan said:


> What the hell are you doing on this thread? Are you 'watch me Iran has an issue and the world did wrong, but Iran is really good at using force against its women' screaming: go to another thread about the wrongs the world has done (and it has). Don't ruin this debate on whats going on in the real war


answer one people who heard talked nonsense


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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has 151 million people compared to Ukraine's 37 million. Russia will sacrifice 30 million people to take Kiev city.



Interesting how Ukrainian only attacks the attacker and not another part of Russia, they obviously have no interest in Russian land.


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## leviathan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine beat Russia the same way England beat France. Better leadership. Better tactics.


I don't believe Ukraine has any chance to win. Ukraine threwed everything at Russia at this moment. Russia is regrouping and try to adapt the war. If you feel tired of reposting. Take a break. Revisit this when there's new change on the battle ground.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> No russian military officer will believe that Chinese, or Iranian cheering give them any more chances to win, let alone in any kind of WW3 like scenario.
> 
> But if there is a special interest group within RU establishment wanting that, they would want Kremlin to believe into some illusion of progress, so Kremlin will keep offering more, and more to China, and Iran.
> 
> The more Tehran, and Beijing believe that putin will go on to the end, the more would they be able to gain.


Interesting, 

So you are saying there are Chinese mole within Russian establishment??

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## Lehrasap

alimobin memon said:


> Post by @jamal18
> 
> What is happening is mind boggling, a quantum shift.
> 
> 1. The Saudis/ UAE not even picking up the phone when Biden rings.
> 
> 2. Selling oil to the Chinese in Yuan.



Saudis will come to US in order to get F15s and other stuff which they cannot make. 

They are not picking the phone while Biden did uphold the human rights issue against MBS. 

If Biden also becomes a heartless person like Trump, then we all saw how MBS was friendly to Trump. 

Conclusion:

All Dictators help each other. Either it is trump or mbs or putin. 
Down with all these dictators.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> and what was the term of the deal


Sanctions are gone.
If Iran does not want to abide by rules set up, it is different.
If you want a loan in a bank, and want to pay 0% interest, then bank is not sanctioning you for not approving the loans.
You simply have a disagreement


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## alimobin memon

leviathan said:


> I don't believe Ukraine has any chance to win. Ukraine threwed everything at Russia at this moment. Russia is regrouping and try to adapt the war. If you feel tired of reposting. Take a break. Revisit this when there's new change on the battle ground.


Russia has always failed first then adapted and overcame. WW2 is the best example in the end Russians were the first to reach berlin.

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## Viet

aziqbal said:


> Russia had 20% of Ukraine
> 
> now they have lost 5% so now 15%
> 
> today also Ukraine pushed into Russian "claimed" territory
> 
> so question is what will Russia do ?


Little to nothing
Russia best troops are decimated. Russia amateur mobis are worst as cannon fodder or as best can slow Ukraine advance. They can’t stop Ukraine offensive. Russia has no means to stop Himars. Those missiles will continue to kill of Russia supplies.
Putin has just promoted Kadyrow to Col. General. Russia will escalate the war with fanatics and facists.


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## sammuel

alimobin memon said:


> Russia has always failed first then adapted and overcame. WW2 is the best example in the end Russians were the first to reach berlin.



From what i read , they did not reach it first . The Western Allies left eastern Germany and the city of Berlin to the Red Army.









Race to Berlin - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## zectech

The shame of the US


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577832058834935808
30+ HIMARS, some artillery and vehicles is a tiny amount of what is needed to crush Russia.


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## gambit

zectech said:


> The shame of the US
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577832058834935808
> 30+ HIMARS, some artillery and vehicles is a tiny amount of what is needed to crush Russia.


Not Russia. Just Russian troops inside Ukraine.

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## Viet

Putin part mobi scares more men to flee than to join a worthless war.










Russia-Ukraine live updates: Missiles rain on Ukraine after purported drone strikes in Russia


Live updates on the Russia-Ukraine crisis.




abcnews.go.com


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## zectech

Ukraine must take back Crimea and Donbas. And yes, that is crushing Russia. That is a total Ukrainian victory. Then EU can get natural gas from Ukrainian reserves, not Russia. As Europe diversifies. However, this goes against the US policy to stop a strong independent EU that surpasses the US in power. The UK/US goal is to keep Germany down, not rivaling the UK/US.

Excluding Russia’s gas reserves in Asia, Ukraine today holds the second biggest known gas reserves in Europe. As of late 2019, known Ukrainian reserves amounted to 1.09 trillion cubic meters of natural gas, second only to Norway’s known resources of 1.53 trillion cubic meters. Yet, these enormous reserves of energy remain largely untapped. Today, Ukraine has a low annual reserve usage rate of about 2 percent. Moreover, more active exploration may yield previously undiscovered gas fields, which would further increase the overall volume of Ukraine’s deposits.









The Forgotten Potential of Ukraine’s Energy Reserves


A resolute development of Ukraine’s untapped reserves in the production, export and storage of energy would be in the interest of all sides involved.




hir.harvard.edu





The war in Ukraine is not about Russians living in Ukraine vs "Nazi Jew Zelensky". It is against EU independence from Russian gas, to steal the areas of Ukraine with gas that can replace the need of Russia. Russia is obsolete with Ukrainian gas sold to Europe. And Putin wants to destroy the EU for the cia Pompeo/Trump agenda. The hatred of Putin and Putinites concerning the EU predates the finding of the gas reserves in Ukraine. The Putin policy is the US policy of keep Germany and EU weak.









Trump to Europe: Drop dead


It’s time to say it: Donald Trump is a mortal threat to the Western alliance.




www.politico.eu





Europeans are more hated by the US deepstate than China is hated. China is easily manipulated for 50 cents. As a lifeless puppet, the US can easily pull the strings of China for US ends. Europeans have morals and values that don't include supporting totalitarianism, that include freedom and democracy and the ability to be successful nations that rise above the US/UK. For that this is in progress:






(BTW, Quigley who taught at Georgetown [teaching Bill Clinton and the both Pelosi husband and wife], wrote the book on much of the information in the above video. Peter Hof and Docherty also referenced and accurate too. As are the other primary sourced books that are used. The narrator and producer of the video offers no evidence that UK in the 1890s started Franco-Russian alliance, no book that I am aware of touches this topic. I am not saying that it did or did not happen. I am saying Quigley does not mention this. And the two authors interviewed actually infer the opposite, that UK, as the history books show, was a late arrival into the Franco-Russian alliance. The famous scholar interviewed, Docherty, in the book tells that France and Russia were anti-UK when the Dual Alliance was signed. Corbett is a very poor researcher. Taking most of the best resources out there and arriving at the conclusion that Putin is the best fuhrer for Europe. I studied this extensively and that one piece of info I have been unable to find from the many scholars Corbett takes and puts the Corbett name to. Corbett is really a shotty "journalist". Taking the best well researched articles and twisting it, this is typical of the alt-wrong. Taking the modern classics and arriving at completely wrong conclusions that trump is fighting the deepstate and Putin should be your hero. The problem is not with the information provided by published authors and scholars, the leaders in the field. The problem is with Corbett. Could have the early Rhodes Round Table before the Franco-Russian alliance used connections to craft that agreement, perhaps. There is no evidence provided by Quigley and other scholars. There is evidence that the UK made sure to keep the Franco-Russian alliance continuing and having the UK join into the Triple Entente. Then the UK used crisis after crisis to blame Germany. This is referenced and sourced. Historians are taught the Franco-Prussian War and French revenge are reasons enough for France to side with Russia, who was jolted by Germany. Until primary sourced info is out, Corbett is to believed wrong on saying the UK crafted the Franco-Russian alliance, since it started in secret, it would difficult to pin on the UK even with UK involvement. What Corbett should have stated is the UK kept the Franco-Russian Alliance going and made it stronger in UK quest to destroy the rise of Germany. Corbett does zero investigative journalism, does shotty journalism, shotty research taken from those who are leaders in the field. Corbett gathers together already known info for well researched authors and journalists, then adds alt-wrong stuff into it)

The US/UK/Russia have been involved in an over 100 year project, known as the Entente, to keep down Germany and European states from banding together to rival UK and US. France and Russia are tools of the UK and US. Only during the late Soviet Union era was Russia free from UK and US control and manipulation to destroy Europe. Such a USSR eventually collapsed because they were cut-throat stalinists. Because Gorbachev did not want a war to destroy Europe, he let the USSR and empire collapse.

Chabad cia own Russia with the Bush cronies that own hundreds of billions in the oil and gas from project hammer.


----------



## Viet

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577343618003701760


Meanwhile the Russians still trying to take Bakhmut at all costs. 3 months and counting. The neofascist group Wagner leads the offensive. We know why the senseless attack. They don’t follow military logics, but racistic motives. Also terror against population as motive.

The Wagner is founded by Prigoschin, Putin’s cook. Incredible. A cook founded a private army. Bakhmut is destined for Putin’s 70y birthday gift.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Interesting,
> 
> So you are saying there are Chinese mole within Russian establishment??



Yes, and not if, but how many by now. I am confident about that.

I long thought that the reason why Beijing is so chill about Russian overtures in the East is because they have full visibility into Russian establishment, and they know these efforts being Potemkin villages, and they knew Russia's real potentials for years.

Every year, MOFCOM organizes around 10 to 20 all expenses paid trips to China for Russian officials, to be hosted in most expensive hotels, and supplied with compliments valued in tens of millions CNY.

Most of RU officials coming for them are relatively low rank, not normally warranting such expensive protocol, nor would officers of 3 letter services be normal guests at "economic forums"

I bet Kremlin is well aware of Beijing spies, but is intentionally overlooking it. What they do not anticipate, however, is the possibility of spies being influence agents. This way the motivation for Beijing 50-centers spinning RUAF capturing tiny villages into grandiose military victories suddenly begins to make sense — that's the "Hopium" which they pump into Kremlin's ears.

Or at least, they want Kremlin to believe that Beijing is "impressed" with their prowess to make impression that Beijing still has high expectations of Kremlin.

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## Menthol

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine beat Russia the same way England beat France. Better leadership. Better tactics.



At the beginning of war, Russia mobilize their forces near Kiev.

After the meeting, Russia retreated and focused on the four provinces at the East.

As I can guess, it's a wrong decision, and now Ukraine army keeps poking Russia's army on the butt all the time.


But what if Russia rejected the meeting resolution and conquered the whole Ukraine?

It's pretty much the same, Ukraine will enter guirella warfare and keeps poking Russia's army on the butt.

The same tactic used by Taliban in Afghanistan against USA.

Even USA itself unable to solve the problem, and finally retreat.

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## ziaulislam

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Sanctions are gone.
> If Iran does not want to abide by rules set up, it is different.
> If you want a loan in a bank, and want to pay 0% interest, then bank is not sanctioning you for not approving the loans.
> You simply have a disagreement


Sanctions are there and haven't been removed against Iran.
Hence why neither Iran or VNZ can put oil into market which helping causing a havoc around the world


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Sanctions are gone.
> If Iran does not want to abide by rules set up, it is different.
> If you want a loan in a bank, and want to pay 0% interest, then bank is not sanctioning you for not approving the loans.
> You simply have a disagreement


which rule ? again you say rule but won't say which ?


----------



## zectech

Putin Hero to the Muslims. god-king to defend Palestinians

The day Putin prayed for rebuilding of Temple​'That's exactly why I came here,' he said in little-reported visit to Jerusalem's Western Wall​








The day Putin prayed for rebuilding of Temple


Russian President Vladimir Putin maintains a deep and complex relationship with Russian Jews, Israeli leaders and the state of Israel.




www.wnd.com










China has such a friend in Putin as the Palestinians do. Putin is a rabid zionist, who is your controlled opposition to slowly boil you in oil as you cheer for Putin.

The Tucker/Trump/Putin cronies want to take out Iran, China, EU and are rabid zionists who want to steal Al Quds. And Iran and China support Trumper Putin.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Interesting how Ukrainian only attacks the attacker and not another part of Russia, they obviously have no interest in Russian land.



Ukraine had plan to take Moscow once they built up the Grand Armee with Operation Barbarossa 2.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577945742664257536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577882368874090497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577994859029331970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577971138940076037

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Paul2

AUF have forded the Pischana river, I belive they are not going directly to Svatove, bit will pass it on two sides.


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## zectech

zectech said:


> Putin Hero to the Muslims. god-king to defend Palestinians
> 
> The day Putin prayed for rebuilding of Temple​'That's exactly why I came here,' he said in _little-reported_ visit to Jerusalem's Western Wall​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The day Putin prayed for rebuilding of Temple
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin maintains a deep and complex relationship with Russian Jews, Israeli leaders and the state of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wnd.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has such a friend in Putin as the Palestinians do. Putin is a rabid zionist, who is your controlled opposition to slowly boil you in oil as you cheer for Putin.
> 
> The Tucker/Trump/Putin cronies want to take out Iran, China, EU and are rabid zionists who want to steal Al Quds. And Iran and China support Trumper Putin.



The whole pro-zionist pro-cia agenda of Putin is little reported. Except the information is out these for those who care about Truth. Those Putin supporters are being 100% manipulated. Putin hates China. Putin hates Muslims and using them for cannon fodder. Putin is one of the most evil criminals.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577969224030486530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577967417820684288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577966279012622336

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## Paul2

zectech said:


> The whole pro-zionist pro-cia agenda of Putin is little reported. Except the information is out these for those who care about Truth. Those Putin supporters are being 100% manipulated. Putin hates China. Putin hates Muslims and using them for cannon fodder. Putin is one of the most evil criminals.



I have no contest on Putin being firmly in the Western camp. Up until 2022, he was just a plain bad boy in the group, rather than a pariah. Remember, he had a G8 seat until Crimea.

Now compare, Xi has just done Xinjiang, and got so much flak just for that, but Putin did Chechnya, thousands of assassinations, rouge states, coups abroad, and only got hugs, and kisses from the West.

China was indeed more sanctioned as a country than Russia up until 2022. This is Xi's biggest problem with Putin allegedly: he says how anti-West he is, and then runs to get all the goodies from the West.

The West treated Putin as a member of the club, as one of their own. They genuinely wanted to to make Russia a part of their circle, even with all its antics.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577979480366202881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577995665854046216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577993277919346689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577985002607984642

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577963416739880960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577926941377708032


https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1577918724568502272?s=20&t=JnbGdoCtOsKp_8qS6MurUA





https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1577738971286749184?s=20&t=i4TWOAi0gDuBOovq7AFFaw

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577998410711441413

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578002784036831234

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578002229960839174

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578000227134488578


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577996465699430401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577970881476845568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577966278421127168

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia's Federation Council ratifies annexation of four Ukrainian regions


The upper house of Russia's parliament voted on Tuesday to approve the incorporation of four Ukrainian regions into Russia, as Moscow sets about formally annexing territory it sized from Kyiv during its seven-month conflict.




www.reuters.com













Russia’s Putin signs laws annexing occupied Ukrainian regions


Vladimir Putin formalises a move that Ukraine and its Western allies have condemned as a meaningless ‘sham’.




www.aljazeera.com

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## sammuel

~

Ukrainian military have liberated Tryfonivka of Kherson regioמ



~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577947277628407809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577945423859388416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577935607308894209

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The longer the war, the better for Russia. With Ukrainian men drafted and serving on the front, Ukrainian women cannot get pregnant and have kids. 10 years from now, due to very low birth rate, Ukraine's population fall to less than 20 million. By then Russia's population grows to 160 million. 8 times man power advantage. The worse the man power disparity, the more Ukrainian men get drafted. The more Ukrainian men get drafted, the worse the man power disparity. Ergo, a vicious cycle.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577760071353831439
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577761849088610312


Please go away


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577990767771095040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577981589098844160

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577457801076637700

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577982235101339648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577927296446496770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577894612387205121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577904652062019584

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## Paul2

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> Ukrainian military have liberated Tryfonivka of Kherson regioמ
> 
> 
> 
> ~



I seem a video of a solar powerplant, so likely it.

It means they got control of Tryfonivka road. All left behind russian units can be considered a write off.

I am seeing significant losses of russian long range artillery, and MLRSes for the first time since battle for Kiyv.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> which rule ? again you say rule but won't say which ?


I showed that there are differing opinions why banking transactions are low.



ziaulislam said:


> Sanctions are there and haven't been removed against Iran.
> Hence why neither Iran or VNZ can put oil into market which helping causing a havoc around the world


I have already provided links to decisions by the EU to terminate sanctions.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578027891983798272


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## sammuel

~

Ukrainian military liberated Hlushkivka of Kharkiv region

( from live map Ukraine ) :









Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests, terrorism, weapons deployment, health matters, natural disasters, and weather...




liveuamap.com





~



Paul2 said:


> I seem a video of a solar powerplant, so likely it.
> 
> It means they got control of Tryfonivka road. All left behind russian units can be considered a write off.
> 
> I am seeing significant losses of russian long range artillery, and MLRSes for the first time since battle for Kiyv.



They have a two head attack now at that side of Kherson region . if the advance in any of them , the Russians will be in danger of encirclement.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

drone artillery 1 gun artillery 0


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578043998136303617

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## Viet

Ukraine: EU agrees on eighth package of sanctions against Russia​The Commission welcomes the Council's adoption of an eighth package of hard-hitting sanctions against Russia for its aggression against Ukraine. This package – which has been closely coordinated with our international partners – responds to Russia's continued escalation and illegal war against Ukraine, including by illegally annexing Ukrainian territory based on sham “referenda”, mobilising additional troops, and issuing open nuclear threats.

This package introduces new EU import bans worth €7 billion to curb Russia's revenues, as well as export restrictions, which will further deprive the Kremlin's military and industrial complex of key components and technologies and Russia's economy of European services and expertise. The sanctions also deprive the Russian army and its suppliers from further specific goods and equipment needed to wage its war on Ukrainian territory. The package also lays the basis for the required legal framework to implement the oil price cap envisaged by the G7.

Specifically, this package contains the following elements:

Additional listings

Additional individuals and entities have been sanctioned. This targets those involved in Russia's occupation, illegal annexation, and sham “referenda” in the occupied territories/oblasts of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia regions. It also includes individuals and entities working in the defence sector, such as high-ranking and military officials, as well as companies supporting the Russian armed forces. The EU also continues to target actors who spread disinformation about the war. 

EU restrictive measure target key decision makers, oligarchs, senior military officials and propagandists, responsible for undermining Ukraine's territorial integrity.

Extension of restrictions to the oblasts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia 

The geographical scope of the restrictive measures in response to the recognition of the non-government controlled areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine and the ordering of Russian armed forces into those areas has been extended to cover all the non-government controlled areas of Ukraine in the oblasts of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.

New export restrictions
Additional export restrictions have been introduced which aim to reduce Russia's access to military, industrial and technological items, as well as its ability to develop its defence and security sector.

This includes the banning of the export of coal including coking coal (which is used in Russian industrial plants), specific electronic components (found in Russian weapons), technical items used in the aviation sector, as well as certain chemicals.

A prohibition on exporting small arms and other goods under the anti-torture Regulation has been added.

New import restrictions
Almost €7 billion worth of additional import restrictions have been agreed.
It includes, for example, a ban on the import of Russian finished and semi-finished steel products (subject to a transition period for some semi-finished), machinery and appliances, plastics, vehicles, textiles, footwear, leather, ceramics, certain chemical products, and non-gold jewellery.

Implementing the G7 oil price cap 
Today's package marks the beginning of the implementation within the EU of the G7 agreement on Russian oil exports. While the EU's ban on importing Russian seaborne crude oil fully remains, the price cap, once implemented, would allow European operators to undertake and support the transport of Russian oil to third countries, provided its price remains under a pre-set “cap”. This will help to further reduce Russia's revenues, while keeping global energy markets stable through continued supplies. It will thus also help address inflation and keep energy costs stable at a time when high costs – particularly elevated fuel prices – are a great concern to all Europeans.

This measure is being closely coordinated with G7 partners. It would take effect after 5 December 2022 for crude and 5 February 2023 for refined petroleum products, after a further decision by the Council.

Restrictions on State-owned enterprises
Today's package bans EU nationals from holding posts in the governing bodies of certain state-owned enterprises.

It also bans all transactions with the Russian Maritime Register, adding it to the list of state-owned enterprises which are subject to a transaction ban. 

Financial, IT consultancy and other business services

The existing prohibitions on crypto assets have been tightened by banning all crypto-asset wallets, accounts, or custody services, irrespective of the amount of the wallet (previously up to €10,000 was allowed).

The package widens the scope of services that can no longer be provided to the government of Russia or legal persons established in Russia: these now include IT consultancy, legal advisory, architecture and engineering services. These are significant as they will potentially weaken Russia's industrial capacity because it is highly dependent on importing these services.

Deterring sanctions circumvention
The EU has introduced a new listing criterion, which will allow it to sanction persons who facilitate the infringements of the prohibition against circumvention of sanctions.

More Information
The EU's sanctions against Russia are proving effective. They are damaging Russia's ability to manufacture new weapons and repair existing ones, as well as hinder its transport of material.

The geopolitical, economic, and financial implications of Russia's continued aggression are clear, as the war has disrupted global commodities markets, especially for agrifood products and energy. The EU continues to ensure that its sanctions do not impact energy and agrifood exports from Russia to third countries.

As guardian of the EU Treaties, the European Commission monitors the enforcement of EU sanctions across the EU.

The EU stands united in its solidarity with Ukraine, and will continue to support Ukraine and its people together with its international partners, including through additional political, financial, and humanitarian support.









Press corner


Highlights, press releases and speeches




ec.europa.eu


----------



## Inception-06

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has 151 million people compared to Ukraine's 37 million. Russia will sacrifice 30 million people to take Kiev city.



What a nonsense, Russia will be crushed into 30 Million pieces. You can’t imagine the Force and effectiveness which the Ukraine Military machines is gaining and developing!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578043210261209088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578043698004328450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578040224625659906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578045000063094784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578050654685335552

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I showed that there are differing opinions why banking transactions are low.
> 
> 
> I have already provided links to decisions by the EU to terminate sanctions.


and we said that a paper is useless , if your sanction removing means nothing until USA remove sanction then who care about you remove sanction ?all EU did was gesture without any effect , meaning or action


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578061671473586179


----------



## Vergennes

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> drone artillery 1 gun artillery 0
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578043998136303617



Seems Russian still put russian losses as "ukrainians".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577985002607984642

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> Seems Russian still put russian losses as "ukrainians".
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577985002607984642





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578061671473586179



You never put such valuable long range fires so close to the frontline.

The reason they can't leave is that the road network there does not go north-south, but they have go reach the rocade to the west to fall back. Land closer to the river is marshy, and risky to cross for heavy vehicles. In fact, many photos of stuck russian vehicles.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578054851371704323

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578048713603284994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578073606042656772

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577998404592062464

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> and we said that a paper is useless , if your sanction removing means nothing until USA remove sanction then who care about you remove sanction ?all EU did was gesture without any effect , meaning or action


That is the effect of living in a democratic country instead of a dictatorship.
We can apply sanctions against countries violating international treaties, but we will not force companies to do business with dictatorships.

If Airbus does not want to sell A310s to Iran, there is no reason for us to try to change their mind, is there?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578078530067480591

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578081086407573507

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578084491750522881

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## A.P. Richelieu




----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Meanwhile the Russians still trying to take Bakhmut at all costs. 3 months and counting. The neofascist group Wagner leads the offensive. We know why the senseless attack. They don’t follow military logics, but racistic motives. Also terror against population as motive.
> 
> The Wagner is founded by Prigoschin, Putin’s cook. Incredible. A cook founded a private army. Bakhmut is destined for Putin’s 70y birthday gift.


As I explained, that is not a military move. 

It's more or less Russia wants a win, ANY WIN, to try to stem the morale loss, and believe it or not, the closest they can pull a win is in Bakhmut. 

Even tho that place is probably more heavily defended than the entire Russian line and even if you capture it some how (Again, never say never) it would have been pointless because that is untenable once Northern Flank fall, and by all account, Ukrainian is going to take at least Svatove before November. They may even take WMD HQ in Staroblisk.

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## Viet

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 885161


She is backtracking because the US , the Nato have made them clear of the catastrophic consequences Russia will face if Putin resorts to nuclear in Ukraine. The russians become more mad than ever after 20y Putin’s reign.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578084491750522881



Guess that Russian "knew" how to use a toilet??? Shame he cannot teach anyone else in Russia what a toilet looks like now?

That has to be coined as "the last shit kill..."

( that twitter thread is brutal ! )

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578073725920051201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578059908897013762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578076791612358677

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## Viet

If Kherson falls to Ukraine army then the war is over. Russia army troops in other sectors will piss off.
Putin will continue to terrorize Ukraine with attacks from Russia.






Ukrainian servicemen drive a tank in the recently retaken area of Izyum, Ukraine [File: Evgeniy Maloletka/AP Photo


----------



## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> If Kherson falls to Ukraine army then the war is over. Russia army troops in other sectors will piss off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian servicemen drive a tank in the recently retaken area of Izyum, Ukraine [File: Evgeniy Maloletka/AP Photo



Kherson is the "canary in the coalmine" as far as this war goes. I do think Ukraine will liberate it in the next few weeks and most certainly before the onset of winter..

( i did not realise this earlier - but by "declaring" the occupied Regions as "Russian" - Putin can effectively send in untrained conscripts into the war which he was stopped from doing earlier as those troops could only be used in "Russian terrority" ) as well as those newly mobilised... )


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577991919271120896

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## jhungary

Russia now officially join the rank of "Boat People"



Russians Detained on Alaskan Island After Arriving by Boat


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> As I explained, that is not a military move.
> 
> It's more or less Russia wants a win, ANY WIN, to try to stem the morale loss, and believe it or not, the closest they can pull a win is in Bakhmut.
> 
> Even tho that place is probably more heavily defended than the entire Russian line and even if you capture it some how (Again, never say never) it would have been pointless because that is untenable once Northern Flank fall, and by all account, Ukrainian is going to take at least Svatove before November. They may even take WMD HQ in Staroblisk.


It seems Putin is obsessed with certain goals, he is deeply involved in daily operations. That will end in tears when an ex spy plays military expert.

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Kherson is the "canary in the coalmine" as far as this war goes. I do think Ukraine will liberate it in the next few weeks and most certainly before the onset of winter..
> 
> ( i did not realise this earlier - but by "declaring" the occupied Regions as "Russian" - Putin can effectively send in untrained conscripts into the war which he was stopped from doing earlier as those troops could only be used in "Russian terrority" ) as well as those newly mobilised... )


People don't realise is that Kherson is the anchor of the entire Western Flank, without Kherson, the entire south bank of Dnieper river is basically just flat land, it's going to get outflank easily, and when that do, it will blow back all the way toward Donetsk. 

Ukrainian have been stacking up force (now 6 Brigade strength, 2 Artillery Regiments) from Zaporizhzhia near Orikhiv. And continue to move troop from central area down south with intel suggest 2 more Brigade moving south, it's a tale-tell sign they are waiting on Kherson to fall to launch a double envelopment attack into Melitipol or may even be toward Mariupol.



Viet said:


> It seems Putin is obsessed with certain goals, he is deeply involved in daily operations. That will end in tears when an ex spy plays military expert.


What I have found discerning is no one in Russia Military try to stop him. 
Either they all yes man or they don't really know as much as Putin does, either way, that's alarming sign.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578089850263175173


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## The SC




----------



## jhungary

Retired Air Vice Marshal Ed Stringer talks about Russian war in Ukraine, and it's not good for the Russian, I should say Putin.

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Kherson is the "canary in the coalmine" as far as this war goes. I do think Ukraine will liberate it in the next few weeks and most certainly before the onset of winter..
> 
> ( i did not realise this earlier - but by "declaring" the occupied Regions as "Russian" - Putin can effectively send in untrained conscripts into the war which he was stopped from doing earlier as those troops could only be used in "Russian terrority" ) as well as those newly mobilised... )


I don’t understand how it’s possible a man can highjack a country? Putin can singlehanded destroy Ukraine. He can destroy Russia in the process. And potentially the planet. Amazing. That’s why important to limit the power of individuals.

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## MeFishToo

Footage of attack in Kherson region. Apparently a german gunner on this humvee.

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## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> NATO joining the fight in Ukraine would be exactly like that - jets and drones operating with no contest


but that's what you had in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen, and NATO still lost all those wars - try again.


MeFishToo said:


> , decimating the russian frontline.


in your mind, lol.


MeFishToo said:


> We all know it,


projection.


MeFishToo said:


> even you.


nope


MeFishToo said:


> You just like to troll.


if you wanna call my counter points trolling, thats your choice, but you ducked my points and then started ad homineming me, so that means im not trolling, You're the one whose trolling me because i dont give into your incorrect opinions and beliefs.

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Footage of attack in Kherson region. Apparently a german gunner on this humvee.


This is how we conducted armored assault. Back in the early 2000s, this is how I was taught exactly to a point how to do that. 

The Humvee need to take overhead position to cover the troop, that's why they are leaving, the troop will then sieve thru the crack and engage the Russian using both cover and concealment. 

This kind of assault works extremely well in difficult terrain because Humvee are high mobility, and they can get in and out of difficult terrain easy, that's why I keep saying we need to give the Ukrainian better wheeled vehicle like Stryker or LAV. They would have further their gain becasue those are better protected than Humvee.

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## jhungary

We demand Payment, Freeze of Interest and Loan, says Russian Conscript

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> but that's what you had in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen, and NATO still lost all those wars - try again.
> 
> in your mind, lol.
> 
> projection.
> 
> nope
> 
> if you wanna call my counter points trolling, thats your choice, but you ducked my points and then started ad homineming me, so that means im not trolling, You're the one whose trolling me because i dont give into your incorrect opinions and beliefs.


Difference is the ukrainians would welcome NATO air cover, and chase the remaining russian forces out. Now stop pretending NATO wouldnt steamroll this lame russian bluff of an invasion, if they choose to get involved in Ukraine.

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## Inception-06

jhungary said:


> We demand Payment, Freeze of Interest and Loan, says Russian Conscript



I think even Pakistan Army could beat this bunch of Russian military.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Sorry been MIA for a while. Somehow I'm missing so much & missing very little. 

I've been saying Russia suck since forever. But damn they still somehow managed to surprise even me. While I was out Ukraine took Lyman and about to took kherson possibly taking around 15k Russian soldiers hostage if they succeed.

Which mean will open them the path to either take Mariupol or even Crimea. 

I literally she'd tears watching this. This is so bad I can't even make a joke about it. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578092046212005888

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Sorry been MIA for a while. Somehow I'm missing so much & missing very little.
> 
> I've been saying Russia suck since forever. But damn they still somehow managed to surprise even me. While I was out Ukraine took Lyman and about to took kherson possibly taking around 15k Russian soldiers hostage if they succeed.
> 
> Which mean will open them the path to either take Mariupol or even Crimea.
> 
> I literally she'd tears watching this. This is so bad I can't even make a joke about it.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578092046212005888


I am amazed the fact that Russia manage to find a single Black Person in Russia to film this ad

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## Reashot Xigwin

Oh look Russian being Nazi again

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577446050167652356

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## jhungary

Inception-06 said:


> I think even Pakistan Army could beat this bunch of Russian military.


Think even Somalian Military can beat this bunch of Russian military......

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> I am amazed the fact that Russia manage to find a single Black Person in Russia to film this ad


The real question is what self respecting black person wants to be in this.

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## Inception-06

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Oh look Russian being Nazi again
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577446050167652356



Proved to be wrong and fake ! The story behind this is different do a research!



jhungary said:


> Think even Somalian Military can beat this bunch of Russian military......



I don’t think so.

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Think even Somalian Military can beat this bunch of Russian military......


The Russian military has gone from benchmark for other country to making 3rd world country's military feels good about themselves.

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## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Oh look Russian being Nazi again
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577446050167652356


I read that some german reporters did some investigations about this. Apparently its a goldtooth collection stolen from a ukrainian dentist in the area. So probably a fake story.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Inception-06 said:


> Proved to be wrong and fake ! The story is behind this is different do a research!
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t think so.


The source disputing it are just the Bild.


----------



## PakFactor

Inception-06 said:


> I think even Pakistan Army could beat this bunch of Russian military.



No


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## Paul2

Viet said:


> If Kherson falls to Ukraine army then the war is over. Russia army troops in other sectors will piss off.
> Putin will continue to terrorize Ukraine with attacks from Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian servicemen drive a tank in the recently retaken area of Izyum, Ukraine [File: Evgeniy Maloletka/AP Photo



Khesanh falls = Ukraine freeing up 8-10 brigades. It's pretty much an end game opener.

10 more brigades with tanks, armour, and artillery open up a possibility for a full frontal onto Donbass, Crimea, or incursions into Russia, or Belarus.

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## Primus

Inception-06 said:


> I think even Pakistan Army could beat this bunch of Russian military.


Bruh Pakistan would tear them a new one. Russia is incompetent and corrupt as heck. They have their own nawaz sharif but for the military.

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## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The source disputing it are just the Bild.


Yes, but still most probably true. He has been collecting for 30 years. They are not even made of gold, but mostly steel according to him.
It doesnt change the fact that the russians are savages. The ukrainians dont need to make up stories. The true testimonies given by the liberated ukrainians are bad enough.

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## Reashot Xigwin

MeFishToo said:


> Yes, but still most probably true. He has been collecting for 30 years. They are not even made of gold, but mostly steel according to him.
> View attachment 885168


Do you seriously not know what Bild is? 





__





Loading…






www.google.com


----------



## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> but that's what you had in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen, and NATO still lost all those wars - try again.


Are you really that simple of mind/IQ that you do not know the difference between conventional war and insurgency? 

nobody is going to invade russia and then waste 20 years there “nation building and winning hearts”….it will be simply wiping russia from ukraine.

The ukranians (with a bit of help) are already doing that by themselves. 
If nato was to join it would be a complete steamroll.

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## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Do you seriously not know what Bild is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


I know Bild. I was raised in the danish-german border area.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Retired Air Vice Marshal Ed Stringer talks about Russian war in Ukraine, and it's not good for the Russian, I should say Putin.



It's an big omission to think that RU establishment wants to appeal exclusively to Xi.

From all what I know, Xi never had personal stake in dealing with Putin. He only ever sent his 1st circle men like Liu, Wang, Li to US, and no other country.

Russian affairs in Beijing were relegated to 2nd, and now 3rd tier diplomats, and bureaucrats, but those are exactly the most hawkish rightists.

All those 40 something upstarts in CPC are extreme opportunists, who came to power "from the street" — lowest tier party enforcers, street thugs, etc.

Those will without any doubt welcome russia getting itself into real trouble with the west, and an opportunity to extract any imaginable concessions from the Kremlin for themselves. That will elevate their standing in Beijing ennormously.

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## Reashot Xigwin

MeFishToo said:


> I know Bild. I was raised in the danish-german border area.


That means they can't be trusted at face value. 

Even in their article they stated there's widespread torture & rape by the Russian forces. So you believe that but draw the lines at them yanking gold teeths out? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577615847761362947


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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> I don’t understand how it’s possible a man can highjack a country? Putin can singlehanded destroy Ukraine. He can destroy Russia in the process. And potentially the planet. Amazing. That’s why important to limit the power of individuals.


Agree - which is why demcracy(dispute its flaws) is the best political setup.. imho..

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## 925boy

ZeGerman said:


> Are you really that simple of mind/IQ that you do not know the difference between conventional war and insurgency?


are you really that simple of mind/IQ that you dont know that the difference between conventional war and insurgency when it comes to results DONT MATTER - you either lose, or you win.


ZeGerman said:


> nobody is going to invade russia and then waste 20 years there “nation building and winning hearts”….it will be simply wiping russia from ukraine.


ok good luck, lemme know when you succeed, coward- cant even boot 1 boot on the ground - western cowardly NATO has lost every war it was afraid to put boots down- Iranian took Iraq from your bich azz, now US has screwed your gas so you have to go back to 1900s and use charcoal. you want me to say EU and NATO are doing well when they act stupid and betray their interests because they cant stand up to US, its ok for Russia, that only makes EU easier to beat up.


ZeGerman said:


> The ukranians (with a bit of help) are already doing that by themselves.


in your deams, Ukranians will DIE IN masses before they get any peace, no apologies from me though, they knew what beef with Russia entails, i mean, even NATO doesnt want to fight Russia and its way more capable than Ukraine so why was Ukraine so stupid to think this military adventure against Russia would work?


ZeGerman said:


> If nato was to join it would be a complete steamroll.


ha ha - until we see it in life, its a pie in your fantasy.

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## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> That means they can't be trusted at face value.
> 
> Even in their article they stated there's widespread torture & rape by the Russian forces. So you believe that but draw the lines at them yanking gold teeths out?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577615847761362947


Honestly, I believe most of russian army is a bunch of lowlife neanderthals capable of anything you might imagine. That doesnt mean this Bild journalist reporting what he sees and hear is wrong. It just happend that some if the ukrainian version of the story went to far - maybe. Who knows.

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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> Those will without any doubt welcome russia getting itself into real trouble with the west, and an opportunity to extract any imaginable concessions from the Kremlin for themselves. That will elevate their standing in Beijing ennormously.



The total economic ruin coming from that scenario will be a nightmare for Xi. Nothing is undermining Xi's standing more than him being framed for causing economic downturn personally hitting the old elites by burning bridges with the West. Xi genuinely wants to mend ties with the West.

Thus, throwing the table upside town this way would be the easiest way for that up, and coming clique to sideline the ancien regime represented by Xi.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> are you really that simple of mind/IQ that you dont know that the difference between conventional war and insurgency when it comes to results DONT MATTER - you either lose, or you win.


Kicking russia out of ukraine would be conventional. Not insurgency.

Taliban were thrown out of kabul by 3000 SF.
Iraq army was crushed twice. 

Yes they can hide behind civilians or in a cave for 20 years till nato gets bored/tired of spending money….that means NOTHING to the difference in power if Nato would step in on side of ukraine. 
Russia is the invader here afterall. 



925boy said:


> ok good luck, lemme know when you succeed, coward- cant even boot 1 boot on the ground -


Ukraine is not nato
Russia has nukes

Cowardice had nothing to do with it. 


925boy said:


> western cowardly NATO has lost every war it was afraid to put boots down- Iranian took Iraq from your bich azz, now US has screwed your gas so you have to go back to 1900s and use charcoal.


Sure kid. Nato are such weak cowards  Thats why no one…not even mighty russia..dares to send a rocket a mm on the wrong side of the border. Even if nato massing training and weapons in poland. 



925boy said:


> you want me to say EU and NATO are doing well when they act stupid and betray their interests because they cant stand up to US, its ok for Russia, that only makes EU easier to beat up.


Winners here are usa and china.

after this war russia is no longer in any state to pose a threat to eu….


925boy said:


> in your deams, Ukranians will DIE IN masses before they get any peace, no apologies from me though, they knew what beef with Russia entails, i mean, even NATO doesnt want to fight Russia and its way more capable than Ukraine so why was Ukraine so stupid to think this military adventure against Russia would work?


Are you…besides low IQ, also Blind? 
Russia just got routed from kharkiv and kherson is to follow. And here you are claiming how great they are and how weak ukraine/nato. 

Their regular army got mangled. Losing paratroopers at hostomel, many spetznaz, the first tank guard…


925boy said:


> ha ha - until we see it in life, its a pie in your fantasy.



The only one living in a fantasy is you.

Kherson will be liberated this year. Despite all your trash posts.

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## Reashot Xigwin

MeFishToo said:


> Honestly, I believe most of russian army is a bunch of lowlife neanderthals capable of anything you might imagine. That doesnt mean this Bild journalist reporting what he sees and hear is wrong. It just happend that some if the ukrainian version of the story went to far - maybe. Who knows.


The russian literally raped babies man. Going too far for the Russian is just a direction for them. I just don't care because the ukrainians haven't liberated Mariupol and there's likely worst things than stack of gold teeths.

I actually got more triggered from reading the words Bild & journalist being used in the same sentence.

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## F-22Raptor

Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com






Russian losses now exceed 6,800

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## dbc

F-22Raptor said:


> Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian losses now exceed 6,800



losses...smooshes Putin is going to ride into battle shirtless astride his ferocious bear and wipe out NATO as per that Somalian dude..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578129956755963909

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578063393981956096

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578107260911423508

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578118921261129729

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578108737621041154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578119049724264453

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578126817592049684

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## 925boy

jhungary said:


> Think even Somalian Military can beat this bunch of Russian military......


more proof NATO is a coward that cant enter a war it has apparent advantage in.

Because logic says that if every tiny ant can beat Russian military, then why not NATO? lol- simple minds love simple answers and simple understanding!



Primus said:


> Bruh Pakistan would tear them a new one. Russia is incompetent and corrupt as heck. They have their own nawaz sharif but for the military.


Are you confusing RUssian military in Ukraine with Russian military in total? I think you are - Pakistani army CANNOT make a new one for Russia, wanna know why? you have no money to, end of story.


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578107260911423508



This is a good showing how ammo inefficient are the dumbfire MLRSes.

Basically, even cluster rockets only make sense to be used with WW2 level force densities.

In this entire war, there were, I would say, less than 20 attacks where area damage of MLRSes was used effectively. All near Kiyv, and Melitopol, where they landed few volleys onto famous kilometres long convoys.

The future of rocket artillery is self-targeting munitions. I.E. something like 122mm, but with the Brimstone targetting system.

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## kingQamaR

Retaking Crimea is a big ask. Given how the Ukrainian military have outperformed Russia in recent weeks, its not impossible, but their tactics thus far have been to use the open land to their benefit and encircle Russian strong points, cutting off logistical supply routes and flanking from 3 sides. Access to the Crimean peninsula though is a natural choke point and the peninsula itself has very direct logistics chains whilst the Kerch bridge is still standing. It's going to need an entirely different approach (and at least some naval support, which Ukraine is desperately short of) to the ones that Ukraine have been using to devastating effect recently. They have been very innovative and have improvised extremely well though, so it will be interesting to see how they conduct such an operation.

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## jhungary

925boy said:


> more proof NATO is a coward that cant enter a war it has apparent advantage in.
> 
> Because logic says that if every tiny ant can beat Russian military, then why not NATO? lol- simple minds love simple answers and simple understanding!
> 
> 
> Are you confusing RUssian military in Ukraine with Russian military in total? I think you are - Pakistani army CANNOT make a new one for Russia, wanna know why? you have no money to, end of story.


you sounded like your opinion is to be respected. LOL  

I don't care what you think about NATO, I care about how Russia failed 7 months to take Ukrainian land, it does not matter whether or not NATO is a coward, it matters when Russia loses.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The real question is what self-respecting black person wants to be in this.


Well, if you have to choose to appear in this video or be drafted and sent to the frontline, I would probably choose to appear in this video.

On the other hand, mostly likely his arse is going to be drafted anyway,

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## Inception-06

jhungary said:


> you sounded like your opinion is to be respected. LOL
> 
> I don't care what you think about NATO, I care about how Russia failed 7 months to take Ukrainian land, it does not matter whether or not NATO is a coward, it matters when Russia loses.



I think China will not perform better in a invasion of Taiwan. How would you rate Chinese and Indian Military? Both are heavy influenced by post soviet equipment and their doctrine.

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## jhungary

Inception-06 said:


> I think China will not perform better in a invasion of Taiwan.


Well, that's another issue. But if this is to be used as a yard stick, then I will say the Chinese invasion is going to be doomed. 

Bear in mind, a lot of Chinese military equipment and doctrine were copy from Russia. If I am a Chinese General, I would really be sitting on the edge of my seat and wonder would my army perform any better??



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The Russian military has gone from benchmark for other country to making 3rd world country's military feels good about themselves.


It's like the internet said

Zelenskyy is a very accomplished comedian, he virtually turn Russia into a joke.

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## MeFishToo

Paul2 said:


> This is a good showing how ammo inefficient are the dumbfire MLRSes.
> 
> Basically, even cluster rockets only make sense to be used with WW2 level force densities.
> 
> In this entire war, there were, I would say, less than 20 attacks where area damage of MLRSes was used effectively. All near Kiyv, and Melitopol, where they landed few volleys onto famous kilometres long convoys.
> 
> The future of rocket artillery is self-targeting munitions. I.E. something like 122mm, but with the Brimstone targetting system.


I was thinking the same - those grads just make a lot of noise and holes in the fields of Ukraine. Seems like a waste, but probably scary when at the recieving end.
Weve seen a few clips of guided airburst artillery rounds used by the ukrainians. That is really impressive and effective.


----------



## Inception-06

jhungary said:


> Well, that's another issue. But if this is to be used as a yard stick, then I will say the Chinese invasion is going to be doomed.
> 
> Bear in mind, a lot of Chinese military equipment and doctrine were copy from Russia. If I am a Chinese General, I would really be sitting on the edge of my seat and wonder would my army perform any better??
> 
> 
> It's like the internet said
> 
> Zelenskyy is a very accomplished comedian, he virtually turn Russia into a joke.


That’s my point, Indian Military is also influenced by the British Training, but their doctrine of Combine is warfare is developed from Russian military equipment. Chinas military is absolutely based on soviet Russian doctrine and training. At this moment and time China and India would marginally perform better then Russia. But China is a fast learner. They are watching this war very closely and clandestine.

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## aviator_fan

alimobin memon said:


> Russia has always failed first then adapted and overcame. WW2 is the best example in the end Russians were the first to reach berlin.


That may be true but only partial picture: its invader was then busy on the western front against a much bigger power (UK, US). There is no western front and the other powers are helping Russia's adversary

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578130675751944198

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## 925boy

jhungary said:


> you sounded like your opinion is to be respected. LOL


in reality, that's exactly how you are- you're the PDF's fake Ukraine thread professor.


jhungary said:


> I care about how Russia failed 7 months to take Ukrainian land,


YOu think RUssia sending in only 20% of its army initially and then facing Ukraine + NATO's military power would make Russia taking Ukraine's land easy? i dont understand what confuses you- there is nothing confusing- you're the kind of person who pours soapy water on the floor, tells your friend to run on it, they slip, and u tell them how did u fall - NATO has given Ukraine ALL IT HAS, to help Ukraine militarily, because its investing in Ukraine for the future of integrating it, but that wont happen, Russia will never allow Ukraine be a NATO springboard, and you and i know that, but NATO idiots are stubborn - they stayed in Afghanistan for 20+ years when they knew they had lost the war probably 5-10 years in..thats the calibre of stubborn you come from, Ukraine will reduce NATO's capacity, and other adversaries of NATO will be less scared, North Korea fired HGV over Japan 2 days ago, and S Korea fired bad missile after- you are on thh side that loses war after war so enjoy.

THe day know Ukraine has lost the war for sure, you will run from PDF.


jhungary said:


> it does not matter whether or not NATO is a coward, it matters when Russia loses.


thanks for admitting RUssia hasnt lost yet.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> That may be true but only partial picture: its invader was then busy on the western front against a much bigger power (UK, US). There is no western front and the other powers are helping Russia's adversary



Perhaps, but Ukraine is far weaker than Germany in 1941. Germany had massive military industrial complex in 1941. Ukraine's small military industrial complex was missiled by Russia. Also, in 1941 Germany had 79 million population. Ukraine only has about 35 million population. Ukraine cannot be compared with Germany.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578152657293672448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578153313236709376

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## aviator_fan

Paul2 said:


> I have no contest on Putin being firmly in the Western camp. Up until 2022, he was just a plain bad boy in the group, rather than a pariah. Remember, he had a G8 seat until Crimea.
> 
> Now compare, Xi has just done Xinjiang, and got so much flak just for that, but Putin did Chechnya, thousands of assassinations, rouge states, coups abroad, and only got hugs, and kisses from the West.
> 
> China was indeed more sanctioned as a country than Russia up until 2022. This is Xi's biggest problem with Putin allegedly: he says how anti-West he is, and then runs to get all the goodies from the West.
> 
> The West treated Putin as a member of the club, as one of their own. They genuinely wanted to to make Russia a part of their circle, even with all its antics.


He was very much in the western camp. I remember Bush saying something like 'he peered into his soul' because relations were cordial and bidrectionally important.

He and his cronies made billions and enjoyed them int he west.

But it goes back further. China broke with its socialism with Russia in the 50s because they didn't feel Russia (where communism was invented) was not extreme enough.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578149437117206529

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> It's an big omission to think that RU establishment wants to appeal exclusively to Xi.
> 
> From all what I know, Xi never had personal stake in dealing with Putin. He only ever sent his 1st circle men like Liu, Wang, Li to US, and no other country.
> 
> Russian affairs in Beijing were relegated to 2nd, and now 3rd tier diplomats, and bureaucrats, but those are exactly the most hawkish rightists.
> 
> All those 40 something upstarts in CPC are extreme opportunists, who came to power "from the street" — lowest tier party enforcers, street thugs, etc.
> 
> Those will without any doubt welcome russia getting itself into real trouble with the west, and an opportunity to extract any imaginable concessions from the Kremlin for themselves. That will elevate their standing in Beijing ennormously.


Well, that's depends, 

From my own Russian source, which is literally depleting by day because I have lost 6 in the last 3 weeks because of part mobilisation....

Russian aren't seeing the Chinese in a good light on this, I don't know if higher up in Russia is ay different but most general Russian sentiment is that Russia is in trouble and China is holding back. That's what piss off everyday Russian. 

So I doubt there are any gain for the Chinese, because at the end of this, If Russia do lose and we have not gone into armageddon, I don't see Russia will have a normal relationship with China.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578149437117206529


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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> in reality, that's exactly how you are- you're the PDF's fake Ukraine thread professor.
> 
> YOu think RUssia sending in only 20% of its army initially and then facing Ukraine + NATO's military power would make Russia taking Ukraine's land easy? i dont understand what confuses you- there is nothing confusing- you're the kind of person who pours soapy water on the floor, tells your friend to run on it, they slip, and u tell them how did u fall - NATO has given Ukraine ALL IT HAS, to help Ukraine militarily, because its investing in Ukraine for the future of integrating it, but that wont happen, Russia will never allow Ukraine be a NATO springboard, and you and i know that, but NATO idiots are stubborn - they stayed in Afghanistan for 20+ years when they knew they had lost the war probably 5-10 years in..thats the calibre of stubborn you come from, Ukraine will reduce NATO's capacity, and other adversaries of NATO will be less scared, North Korea fired HGV over Japan 2 days ago, and S Korea fired bad missile after- you are on thh side that loses war after war so enjoy.
> 
> THe day know Ukraine has lost the war for sure, you will run from PDF.
> 
> thanks for admitting RUssia hasnt lost yet.


This is the exact kind of ego-boosting fantasy advice that Russia got from its military that it put itself in this no-win situation and sure humiliation. Russia is humiliated. Its sanctioned. Its trade partners are Iran and N. Korea. Its Air Force no-where to be seen. MOre Russians have left Russia than mobilized.

And industrially Russia will move to the 70s, if its lucky over the next 2 years. All this while NATO's biggest problem is its people may not live with 20 degree room temp, and its pools may not be heated.

I don't think anybody will be running away from PDF. But you should look up who Saddam's and Qaddarfi's adviers are: you are exactly their persona. Disregard the facts and reason and be in some wizard land of alternate reality

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## jhungary

925boy said:


> in reality, that's exactly how you are- you're the PDF's fake Ukraine thread professor.
> 
> YOu think RUssia sending in only 20% of its army initially and then facing Ukraine + NATO's military power would make Russia taking Ukraine's land easy? i dont understand what confuses you- there is nothing confusing- you're the kind of person who pours soapy water on the floor, tells your friend to run on it, they slip, and u tell them how did u fall - NATO has given Ukraine ALL IT HAS, to help Ukraine militarily, because its investing in Ukraine for the future of integrating it, but that wont happen, Russia will never allow Ukraine be a NATO springboard, and you and i know that, but NATO idiots are stubborn - they stayed in Afghanistan for 20+ years when they knew they had lost the war probably 5-10 years in..thats the calibre of stubborn you come from, Ukraine will reduce NATO's capacity, and other adversaries of NATO will be less scared, North Korea fired HGV over Japan 2 days ago, and S Korea fired bad missile after- you are on thh side that loses war after war so enjoy.
> 
> THe day know Ukraine has lost the war for sure, you will run from PDF.
> 
> thanks for admitting RUssia hasnt lost yet.


Again, you say that as if your opinion count

If Russia do not use 100% of their force, whose fault is that? You fight with one hand tied behind your back, and you got beaten, you still got beaten, can you tell Ukraine "It does not count because I didn't use 100% of my force?"

And I will not even get into strategic and tactical discussion to someone who see Bakhmut and Lyman have the same military value. That's like talking about my lunch plan with a cow. 

And tell me when "THAT DAY" come. I don't see it, and I have been waiting for 7 months and in fact. And it's funny you compare Russian-Ukrainian war to US War in Afghanistan when you don't even realise Russia is in US position, and Ukraine is in Afghanistan position......LOL

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## aviator_fan

Inception-06 said:


> What a nonsense, Russia will be crushed into 30 Million pieces. You can’t imagine the Force and effectiveness which the Ukraine Military machines is gaining and developing!


I think you could do yourself a favor by ignoring this moron's post: all he writes are 'forever war', or 'bigger army wins'. Its all he is capable of typing.

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> This is the exact kind of ego-boosting fantasy advice that Russia got from its military that it put itself in this no-win situation and sure humiliation. Russia is humiliated. Its sanctioned. Its trade partners are Iran and N. Korea. Its Air Force no-where to be seen. MOre Russians have left Russia than mobilized.
> 
> And industrially Russia will move to the 70s, if its lucky over the next 2 years. All this while NATO's biggest problem is its people may not live with 20 degree room temp, and its pools may not be heated.
> 
> I don't think anybody will be running away from PDF. But you should look up who Saddam's and Qaddarfi's adviers are: you are exactly their persona. Disregard the facts and reason and be in some wizard land of alternate reality



Well, he sounded like this guy







Maybe @925boy was him? I don't know

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## aviator_fan

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577991919271120896


Now I know that this twitter poster is a moron. OPEC can't fix prices by destination . Whats specially moronic is that US doesn't even import OPEC oil and its the world's top oil producer.



925boy said:


> but that's what you had in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen, and NATO still lost all those wars - try again.
> 
> in your mind, lol.
> 
> projection.
> 
> nope
> 
> if you wanna call my counter points trolling, thats your choice, but you ducked my points and then started ad homineming me, so that means im not trolling, You're the one whose trolling me because i dont give into your incorrect opinions and beliefs.


They are not trolling. They are dumb and ignorant. Whatever other war was lost or won is not at debate here. But because you can't take Putin's repeated humiliation you have to keep on changing to 'x lost y war so Putin si doing well'


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## jhungary

Inception-06 said:


> That’s my point, Indian Military is also influenced by the British Training, but their doctrine of Combine is warfare is developed from Russian military equipment. Chinas military is absolutely base on soviet Russian doctrine and training. At this moment and time China and India would marginally perform better then Russia. But China is a fast learner. They are watching this war very closely and clandestine.


That's another problem.

Again, bear in mind, this is not individual personnel, nor individual equipment failure, but a systematic failure of the entire system. From top to bottom, and that system is, or was (Honestly I don't think anyone will go with Russian system after this) one of the only 2 doctrines in the world. The other being Western and NATO doctrine.

Now country that follow Russian doctrine would be shaking their boots, because you literally see the entire system disintegrated in front of your eyes on TV. the problem is, if this is the case, what can you change to?

Assuming the Russian system is poisonous, everything and anything derived from it would have been fruit from a poisonous tree, and it will only be second best to the Western or NATO system. Which mean either someone have to come up with a military doctrine that's built from scratch, or they would have to follow the Western Doctrine, however, since many of those who uses Russian Doctrine are NATO enemies, no one on the NATO side will help them establish NATO like system in their own country.

Which means, until a new doctrine, most possibly from China or even India or one of those regional military power come forward, there are not a military doctrine that can challenge the west. And that will send shockwave to the core of most country that uses Russian Doctrine. Because essentially, people know how to defeat your army.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> more proof NATO is a coward that cant enter a war it has apparent advantage in.
> 
> Because logic says that if every tiny ant can beat Russian military, then why not NATO? lol- simple minds love simple answers and simple understanding!
> 
> 
> Are you confusing RUssian military in Ukraine with Russian military in total? I think you are - Pakistani army CANNOT make a new one for Russia, wanna know why? you have no money to, end of story.


Bagdad Bob, you are back with us but now advising Russians. Why would NATO do the equivalent of using a latrine (sending boots on the ground) when it has the equivalent of indoor plumbing (intelligence, precision weapons, knowledge) to have greater effect.

Is your point that you are bitter that NATO is fighting an unfair war and it should send boots and the only way to prove its manhood? Start cleaning your own toilet and not flush it. That will give you an idea why NATO is not doing it. And may be it has learned from other insurgency operations.

Btw, here are some famous quotes you made in 2003:

Baghdad Bob on the Invasion​Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf made so many statements as information minister. Here is a sampling of some of his more outlandish quotes:



"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"
"My feelings, as usual, we will slaughter them all."
"Our initial assessment is that they will all die."
"No I am not scared and neither should you be!"
"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."
"They're not even [within] 100 miles [of Baghdad]. They are not in any place. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion ... they are trying to sell to the others an illusion

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Retaking Crimea is a big ask. Given how the Ukrainian military have outperformed Russia in recent weeks, its not impossible, but their tactics thus far have been to use the open land to their benefit and encircle Russian strong points, cutting off logistical supply routes and flanking from 3 sides. Access to the Crimean peninsula though is a natural choke point and the peninsula itself has very direct logistics chains whilst the Kerch bridge is still standing. It's going to need an entirely different approach (and at least some naval support, which Ukraine is desperately short of) to the ones that Ukraine have been using to devastating effect recently. They have been very innovative and have improvised extremely well though, so it will be interesting to see how they conduct such an operation.


Retaking Crimea is probably not possible until Ukraine have the same ratio of men and equipment than Russia.

Bear in mind the Russian line is currently stretch thin, but when they keep losing territories, they will increase their troop density in the remining stronghold. 

On the other hand, Russia still have advantage at sea, it's one thing for Ukraine to defend against Russian offensive naval operation. but another to fight off a defending Russian navy. 

And finally, there are two access point from Ukrainian mainland to Crimea, and that would favor the Defender because you limited your approach, and Ukraine does not have a good airborne or air assault force that can take objective inside Crimea and hold it. Which mean the defence would be heavily favourited.

That said, I would say Ukraine does not need to actually take Crimea. Once Ukraine roll over the land bridge and destroy the kerch bridge, and put AD/A2 asset in and around Crimea. And shut off electricity and water flow into Crimea, they would have to surrender eventually or basically starve the entire garrison, along with the entire Crimea population with it.



alimobin memon said:


> Russia has always failed first then adapted and overcame. WW2 is the best example in the end Russians were the first to reach berlin.


There is a point of no return on a comeback, Soviet Union was very near at that point before US and the West send them Lend Lease and help them stem the tides. You may not know or not willing to accept, but SU are very close at being defeated in Stalingrad, and if that is gone, then no amount of lend lease would turn the ties. 

On the other hand, Russia is fighting only with a portion of SU men, and without the same motivation as to 
Defend their own Territories, and they are the aggressor in this war. That point would have been gone since they lose the momentum I would say somewhere back in April when they lose in Kyiv. That's when their best men and their best equipment have a chance to win this outright, but they can't or didn't. And as time grinds on, as long as Ukrainian state exist, Russia would have to be fed into the grinder, the only different is, for the Ukrainian, there are nowhere else they can go, but for the Russian, it's always one order away from peace, that' will set the morale different between Ukraine and Russia. 

The longer this war drag on, the Russian is actually on a worse position, because the situation is already bad, and you cannot turn it around, when the bad is being compounded. It will only happens if and when a third outside force that are big enough to turn the ties and help Russia out, namely China, but then that's just giving them a chance, not a sure thing, on the other had, would China do it? That's another question altogether.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

maverick1977 said:


> The use of tactical nuke is quite a possibility within this week to the next... the world is on the edge..



BS

Putin is begging Zelensky to not do a regime change to depose him and balkanize Russia.

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## aviator_fan

Graphic more Russians left than got mobilized. The numbers

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Viet said:


> We don’t know what Putin is up to. He is obsessed with Ukraine land grab. If he will accept the military defeat. Ukraine should prepare for worst case scenario. The US, the Nato would notice immediately I think if Russia prepares a nuclear attack.



Putin is ready to with draw from all of Ukraine including Crimea, if Zelensky promises that there won't be any regime change in Russia.

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## aviator_fan

My theory on system weakness and the political set-up can lead to disaster:

1. A top down person based system based on fear
2. No feedback loop (out of fear/reprisal) to understand true state of affairs
3. No learning loop in society or military that improves upon itself
4. Then add to this the endemic corruption of rich Russians living in the West and setting a bad example. Then the not so rich military decided to take that example and steal from within.

I believe NATO's superiority is not its military. But it having an advantage in each of these. Open society, open to feedback/learning, and evolving its war doctrine.

The above is not just applicable to Russia, but also Iraq, Libya.

I was applying the principles to one of its weapons programs in the early 60s: Tu22. It had to be built at all cost. The Tuplov engineers worked under fear. Could not be honest about weakness.

So they built a sub-optimal supersonic bomber with odd handling characteristics, and made worse by building a bomber with only one pilot.

Both the prototypes crashed, but they were told to keep going. The plane had a landing speed of 320km/hour. Ultimately they built several 100,but 25% of the fleet was lost to crashes.

In the 1800s this learning culture did not matter. Everybody had the same baseline so there was no differentiator. But in 2022, it matters.

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## Paul2

MeFishToo said:


> I was thinking the same - those grads just make a lot of noise and holes in the fields of Ukraine. Seems like a waste, but probably scary when at the recieving end.
> Weve seen a few clips of guided airburst artillery rounds used by the ukrainians. That is really impressive and effective.



Romania makes airburst fuzes for grad


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

The SC said:


> Tomorrow will be a critical day..



Putin is fighting this war on hope.



gambit said:


> Am not advocating for a nuclear war, if that is what you think. But what I did was put a dose of reality into the many trolls who mindlessly said how Russia would 'destroy' the US.



If at all Putin uses his nukes, it will be on the US not Ukraine.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578162865562959872


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## The SC

aviator_fan said:


> Now I know that this twitter poster is a moron. OPEC can't fix prices by destination . Whats specially moronic is that US doesn't even import OPEC oil and its the world's top oil producer.


You seem to talk from ignorance not knowledge..
The US was a top oil producer .. but not anymore..it is a fact it is the top consumer.. it is tapping into its strategic reserve..!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danebe...e-despite-tight-oil-supplies/?sh=6830291a6456

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/us-oil-imports-by-country

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## aviator_fan

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Putin is ready to with draw from all of Ukraine including Crimea, if Zelensky promises that there won't be any regime change in Russia.


This is reasonable for what it matters on this forum. Enough is enough. No reason to push for regime change

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

aviator_fan said:


> This is reasonable for what it matters on this forum. Enough is enough. No reason to push for regime change



Zelensky needs a permanent solution for the security of Ukraine.

He has no option but to depose Putin and Balkanize Russia.

Remember that Zelensky owes a lot to a lot of countries which are funding this war.

Zelensky will only be able to payback with the resources of Russia once it has been balkanized.


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## dbc

The SC said:


> You seem to talk from ignorance not knowledge..
> The US was a top oil producer .. but not anymore..it is a fact.. it is tapping into its strategic reserve..!



why do you lie?









The U.S. Is Still The World’s Top Oil Producer


Despite President Biden's recent trip to Saudi Arabia to request more oil production, the U.S. remains the world's top oil producer.




www.forbes.com

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 6​Oct 6, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Katherine Lawlor, Riley Bailey, George Barros, and Frederick W. Kagan
October 6, 6:15pm ET
Click here to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report. *​*Russia’s use of Iranian-made drones is not generating asymmetric effects the way the Ukrainian use of US-provided HIMARS systems has done and is unlikely to affect the course of the war significantly. *The deputy chief of the Main Operational Department of the Ukrainian General Staff, Brigadier General Oleksiy Hromov, stated on October 6 that Russian forces have used a total of 86 Iranian Shahed-136 drones against Ukraine, 60% of which Ukrainian forces have already destroyed.[1] As ISW reported yesterday, Russian forces do not appear to be focusing these drones on asymmetric nodes near the battlefield. They have used many drones against civilian targets in rear areas, likely hoping to generate nonlinear effects through terror. Such efforts are not succeeding. Ukrainian Air Force Command Spokesperson Yuri Ignat stated that the Russian army is increasingly using the Iranian-made drones to conserve its stock of high-precision missiles.[2] Russian forces have likely used a non-trivial percentage of the Shahed-136 supply so far if the claims of an anonymous US intelligence official at the end of August were correct that Iran would likely provide ”hundreds” of drones to Russia.[3]
*The Wagner Private Military Company announced the creation of its own private Telegram channel on October 6, indicating that Wagner financier Yevgeny Prigozhin may want a voice that is clearly his own to compete with milbloggers and possibly Chechen warlord Ramzan Kadyrov, who all have their own Telegram channels. *A Telegram channel affiliated with Prigozhin shared the invitation to the Wagner channel, “Peacekeeper.” The Russian-language invitation reads “We arrived from Hell. We are WAGNER - our business is death, and business is going well.”[4] In addition to Peacekeeper, the channel suggested that followers subscribe to the “Novorossiya Z Project,” another private channel. The creation of a group for Wagner to share “uncensored materials from the front” may be in part a recruitment tool but is likely also an attempt to establish a formal means for Prigozhin and his allies to directly influence the information space in much the same way that Kadyrov and the Russian nationalist milbloggers use Telegram. 
*Key Takeaways*

*Russia’s use of Iranian-made drones is not generating asymmetric effects the way the Ukrainian use of US-provided HIMARS systems has done and is unlikely to affect the course of the war significantly.*
*The Wagner Private Military Company announced the creation of its own private Telegram channel on October 6, indicating that Wagner financier Yevgeny Prigozhin may want a voice that is clearly his own to compete with milbloggers and possibly Chechen warlord Ramzan Kadyrov, who all have their own Telegram channels.*
*Ukrainian forces likely continued counteroffensive operations in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast near Kupyansk and operations to threaten Russian positions along the Kreminna-Svatove road in western Luhansk Oblast on October 6.*
*Russian troops are likely establishing defensive positions in upper Kherson Oblast following the collapse of the Russian line in northeast Kherson.*
*Russian troops continued ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on October 6 and likely made incremental gains around Bakhmut.*
*Russian forces continued to conduct routine artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole, and in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv Oblasts on October 6.*
*Local Russian officials appear to be frantically looking for ways to fund their mobilized units as the Kremlin increasingly expects local administrations to pay for the war effort from their own budgets.*
*The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on October 6 that Russian forces began the forced mobilization of Ukrainian citizens in Russian-occupied Kremmina and Starobilsk, Luhansk Oblast.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Oskil River-Kreminna Line)*
Ukrainian forces likely continued counteroffensive operations in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast near Kupyansk on October 6. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled “up to three [Ukrainian] battalion tactical groups [sic]” as they attempted to advance towards Pershotravneve (20km northeast of Kupyansk), Kyslivka (23km southeast of Kupyansk), and Berestove (30km northeast of Kupyansk).[5] Geolocated footage also shows Ukrainian troops in Hlushkivka, 14km southeast of Kupyansk, indicating that Ukrainian troops are continuing to make eastward gains around Kupyansk.[6] A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces are attempting to extend the counteroffensive pocket around Kupyansk northeast towards Vilshana and east towards Orlianka (22km east of Kupyansk) and that Ukrainian troops are sending reinforcements to this pocket.[7] The deputy chief of the Main Operational Department of the Ukrainian General Staff, Brigadier General Oleksiy Hromov, reported that Russian troops are attempting to slow Ukrainian advances in the Kupyansk-Svatove direction, suggesting that Russian troops around Kupyansk are concerned that Ukrainians will use positions in this area to threaten Svatove from the northwest.[8]
*

*
Ukrainian troops likely continued counteroffensive operations to threaten Russian positions along the Kreminna-Svatove road in western Luhansk Oblast on October 6. Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Ambassador to Russia Rodion Miroshnik claimed that over 10,000 Ukrainian troops have amassed west of Kreminna, and that Russian forces have largely lost contact with Svatove and Kreminna.[9] Several Russian sources stated that Ukrainian troops are continuing sabotage and reconnaissance activities along the R66 (Svatove-Kreminna road) and that Russian troops are preparing for the defense of the Svatove-Kreminna line.[10] Local citizens and Russian troops have reportedly evacuated Svatove in anticipation of Ukrainian attacks.[11] 
*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Russian troops are likely establishing defensive positions in upper Kherson Oblast following the collapse of the Russian line in northeast Kherson. Satellite imagery dated October 3 and 4 shows Russian trench lines and radar deflector systems in the Beryslav-Nova Kakovkha area, which suggests that Russian troops are falling back to reinforce defensive positions in central Kherson Oblast in the face of recent Ukrainian advances in northeast Kherson Oblast.[12] Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces largely focused on regrouping in northern Kherson Oblast and did not conduct ground attacks on October 6.[13] The Russian MoD echoed claims made by some milbloggers that Ukrainian troops conducted limited ground attacks to break through new Russian defensive lines in northern Kherson, particularly from Piatykhatky (about 35km south of the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border).[14] 



Russian sources also suggested that Ukrainian troops conducted limited ground attacks northwest of Kherson City on October 6. A Russian milblogger stated that Ukrainian forces are conducting troop rotations northwest and west of Kherson City near Posad Pokrovske and Oleksandrivka in preparation for further attacks in the direction of Kherson City.[15] The milblogger claimed that Ukrainian troops attacked Russian positions near Novohryhorivka, about 25km northwest of Kherson City.[16] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command noted that a reinforced Russian tactical unit of an unspecified echelon attempted to attack in the direction of Lyubomirivka (27km northwest of Kherson City), likely in an attempt to push the frontline further north of Kherson City to afford Russian troops a wider buffer zone between Ukrainian positions and critical concentration areas near the Dnipro River on October 5.[17]
Ukrainian forces additionally continued their interdiction campaign in support of ground operations on October 6. Social media footage shows the aftermath of a HIMARS strike on a building used by Russian forces in Kherson City on the night of October 5 to 6.[18] Residents of Oleshky (5km southwest of Kherson City) reported smoke following Ukrainian strikes in the area.[19] Ukrainian forces also reportedly conducted strikes on the Antonivskyi Bridge.[20]
*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian troops continued ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on October 6 and likely made incremental gains around Bakhmut. The Russian MoD claimed that Russian forces took full control of Zaitseve (8km southeast of Bakhmut), but some milbloggers said that claims of the capture of Zaitseve are premature and that Wagner Group forces are continuing attempts to take full control of Zaitseve.[21] A Russian milblogger claimed that Wagner Group fighters took control of Vesela Dolyna (5km southeast of Bakhmut) and are advancing northwest towards Ivanhrad.[22] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian troops continued ground attacks northeast of Bakhmut near Yakovlivka, Soledar and Bakhmutske and south of Bakhmut near Odradivka, Mayorsk, and Zaitseve.[23] Ukrainian and Russian sources stated that Russian forces fought along the western outskirts of the Donetsk City-Avdiivka area and conducted ground assaults near Krasnohorivka and Vodyane and southwest of Donetsk City near Pobieda and Novomykhailivka.[24] Russian troops continued routine shelling around Bakhmut and the Donetsk City-Avdiivka area.[25]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued to conduct routine artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole, and in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv Oblasts on October 6.[26] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck Zaporizhia City, Nikopol, and Kryvyi Rih.[27] Ukrainian sources also reported that Ukrainian forces shot down Russian Shahed-136 drones and other unspecified loitering munitions in Mykolaiv and Odesa Oblasts.[28] Melitopol Mayor Ivan Fedorov reported that Ukrainian forces struck and destroyed Russian ammunition depots in Melitopol on October 6.[29]



*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Local Russian officials appear to be frantically looking for ways to fund their mobilized units as the Kremlin increasingly expects local administrations to pay for the war effort from their own budgets, as ISW has previously reported.[30] A Russian opposition outlet reported on October 5 that the Ministry of Industry and Trade for the Republic of Mari El forced business owners to “donate” 1% of their earnings to fund mobilized personnel in the Republic.[31] The ministry reportedly threatened to mobilize the employees of businesses that did not comply. One businessman told the outlet that he had to transfer money despite personal opposition to the war in order to protect his employees, and that the stated purpose of the funds was "voluntary donations to provide humanitarian assistance to military personnel called up for partial mobilization." An anti-war Russian outlet reported that public employees and teachers in Krasnodar Krai were forced to "voluntarily” deduct one day of October pay to transfer to a fund to support mobilized personnel.[32] The outlet noted that authorities in Krasnodar previously forced public officials to donate parts of their salaries to repair a highway in Russian-occupied Crimea in 2014. Omsk Governor Alexander Burkov reported on October 5 that Omsk faced a budget deficit of more than 13 billion rubles and was unable to pay for the additional benefits for mobilized Omsk citizens—like childcare support—that other, wealthier regions of Russia were able to provide.[33] Burkov was responding to a video circulated by Omsk servicemembers who alleged that their salaries were unpaid.
It is unclear whether Omsk Oblast is providing any salary to its mobilized citizens, or which government entities are responsible for paying mobilized men—the Russian Ministry of Defense, the federal government, or local administrations. However, Moscow Oblast governor Andrei Vorobyov told mobilized men from Moscow on October 6 that the Moscow administration has purchased necessary equipment for them; his remarks received general acclaim from the milblogger community.[34] The Ministry of Defense is demonstrably not providing even basic military equipment to mobilized personnel. It appears to be leaving wealthy oblasts to fill that gap, while mobilized men from poorer oblasts may be going without non-crowdsourced equipment entirely.[35]
The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on October 6 that Russian forces began the forced mobilization of Ukrainian citizens in Russian-occupied Kremmina and Starobilsk, Luhansk Oblast. The Center reported that Russian forces are sending Ukrainians of all ages and health statuses to the frontlines without proper training or ammunition because Russian forces “benefit from [Ukrainian deaths] regardless of which side we are fighting for, because it breaks the mental ties between the regions.”[36]
Unidentified hackers used fake mobilization notices purportedly from military commissariats to install malware on Russian computers, according to a Russian cybersecurity company. KasperskyLabs reported on October 6 that men received fake subpoenas from military registration offices calling on recipients to urgently appear at a place and time, with a PDF download purportedly containing more information.[37] The PDFs contained malware used for corporate espionage data theft, which KasperskyLabs attributed to the Eastern Europe-oriented hacking group XDSpy. Russian military commissars are legally required to present mobilization notices in person, not via email. 
Russian figures continue to poorly organize the nonconventional formation of volunteer battalions. Ultranationalist milblogger Igor Girkin announced on October 6 that his “Novorossiya” Societal Division would no longer oversee the creation and management of the “Nevsky” volunteer battalion detachment.[38] Girkin had commented on the progress of the ”Nevsky” detachment and its early October deadline for formation as recently as September 27.[39]
Newly-mobilized Russian citizens continued to arrive in all parts of occupied Ukraine to train “at training grounds in close proximity to areas where combat missions are being performed,” according to the Russian Ministry of Defense. Mobilized citizens reportedly arrived in Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts for training on October 3 and 4.[40] Russian proxy outlets also showed videos of unspecified personnel training in Kherson Oblast and newly mobilized personnel training in Donetsk and Zaporizhia oblasts.[41] The People’s Militia of the DNR reported on October 6 that the newly mobilized men will undergo intensive on-the-ground training that takes into account Russia’s recent experiences with combat in Ukraine. The Russian Ministry of Defense had told Interfax on October 2 that ”after the training is completed, these units will begin to carry out tasks for the control and defense of the liberated territories and will also operate as part of reserve and reinforcement units.”[42]
Members of the Russian public continued to express their dissatisfaction with Russia’s “partial mobilization” through attacks and threats against military facilities across the country. An unidentified individual issued a bomb threat to the administrative building for the Military Commissariat in Ulan-Ude, the Republic of Buryatia on October 5.[43] Russian authorities found no signs of an explosive. An unidentified person in Moscow threw four Molotov cocktails at an uninhabited barracks on October 5.[44] Police also arrested an 11th-grade girl on October 5 after she threw two Molotov cocktails at the military registration and enlistment office in Kazan, Republic of Tatarstan.[45]
The Russian military’s policy of funneling new recruits into pre-existing units as individual-level replacements are continuing to create incohesive formations down to the team level. A _Washington Post_ journalist reported that Ukrainian forces captured a Russian tank team near Mykolaiv with three soldiers from three different sources: a driver who was a mobilized prisoner with paratrooper experience in the Russian military, a commander from the Wagner Private Military Company, and a gunner who was a mobilized Ukrainian from Luhansk.[46]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Russian and occupation administration officials continued to restrict the movement of residents in Russian-occupied territories on October 6. Ukrainian sources reported that Russian and occupation administration officials implemented curfews and increased filtration measures in Rubizhne and Starobilsk, Luhansk Oblast with the stated purpose of finding Ukrainian saboteurs and partisans.[47] Odesa Military Administration Spokesman Serhiy Bratchuk claimed that the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) continues to prevent residents of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts from entering the Russian Federation despite Russia’s recent policy change to officially recognize those territories as part of Russia.[48] The mayor of Melitopol, Ivan Fedorov, reported that Russian and occupation administration officials are refusing to let Ukrainian civilians move through the Vasylivka checkpoint into Ukrainian-held Zaporizhia Oblast and that the queue at the checkpoint is now over 5,000 people long.[49] Russian and occupation administration officials will likely continue to increase restrictions on civilian movement as Ukrainian counteroffensives progress.
Russian and occupation administration officials began to set conditions for President Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party to dominate politics in illegally annexed Russian-occupied territories on October 6. United Russia Party Chairman Dmitry Medvedev stated that the party will extend its programming to the illegally annexed territories and create regional party branches there as well.[50] The head of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR), Denis Pushilin, announced on October 6 that he was the nominee for the post of the United Russia Regional Party Secretary for the DNR.[51] The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian officials are coercing public sector employees in Russian-occupied territories to join the United Russia party with threats of dismissal and mobilization if they refuse.[52]

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578113721368559616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578152867747094528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578129267568902184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578107677024075776

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578183900383580160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578153313236709376

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## aviator_fan

The SC said:


> You seem to talk from ignorance not knowledge..
> The US was was a top oil producer .. but not anymore..it is a fact.. it is tapping in its strategic reserve..
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/danebe...e-despite-tight-oil-supplies/?sh=6830291a6456
> 
> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/us-oil-imports-by-country



You can bring your own sources and I will bring mine. US produced almost same mount of oil per day as Russia and Saudi Arabia put together. https://investingnews.com/daily/res...nd-gas-investing/top-oil-producing-countries/

Only 20% of its oil is imported from OPEC+ countries. Its insignificant. Oil is is maintained at a global price level. Releasing of strategic reserves is not a sign of oil shortage but the theory is that if you offset a bit of the 2m/day loss the spike won't be as high.

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## jhungary

dbc said:


> why do you lie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. Is Still The World’s Top Oil Producer
> 
> 
> Despite President Biden's recent trip to Saudi Arabia to request more oil production, the U.S. remains the world's top oil producer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


lol he didn't even know US open the Strategic Reserve because what they drilled went to other country to balance supplies instead of back in US, which is what they normally do. That does not mean US stop drilling and producing oil......


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## kingQamaR

There's talk of Kherson falling to Ukraine soliders in the next week. If that happens the war now is completely unwinnable for Russia unless they use nuclear weapons. Crimea will be in range of American *HIMARS rocket *systems!!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> Seems Russian still put russian losses as "ukrainians".
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577985002607984642



It was destroyed Ukrainian pion. Ukrainian lie about it.


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## James David

aviator_fan said:


> Two points I have been pondering:
> 1. US released as a statement that the assassination (via car bomb) in Moscow was sanctioned by Ukraine. I am not sure what the value of releasing that statement was other than a deliberate measure to be in a position to at least tell Ukraine a month from now to settle and that its aid is not unlimited.
> 
> 2. All this myth about Russia's ability to wage a cyber war in a full scale battle turned out to be hollow. Seems like Russians cyber ops are good as common criminals but they weren't able to overwhelm Ukrainians. Granted Ukranians are smart in that department and got help from US military and Microsoft to where Russian's weren't even able to disrupt the train system (despite multiple attempts). Looks like Russia cyber forces were as incompetent as its air and ground forces. My sympathy is with the families of the young men that went and did this out of duty for their country.


naaaaah you're just switching sides.


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> There's talk of Kherson falling to Ukraine soliders in the next week. If that happens the war now is completely unwinnable for Russia unless they use nuclear weapons. Crimea will be in range of American *HIMARS rocket *systems!!


lol, next week is next to impossible. Unless Russian line buckled on the entire front. I don't see that likely. 

Probably next month, the Ukrainian may take or at least threaten Nova Kakovhka tho. After that, in about 2 or 3 weeks, they can start threatening Kherson.

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## KAL-EL

Paul2 said:


> Romania makes airburst fuzes for grad



Romania was once also home to the most powerful being on Earth.

A being that still quite possibly walks the Earth today.

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> lol, next week is next to impossible. Unless Russian line buckled on the entire front. I don't see that likely.
> 
> Probably next month, the Ukrainian may take or at least threaten Nova Kakovhka tho. After that, in about 2 or 3 weeks, they can start threatening Kherson.


Winter will soon and both sides will be bogged down until next spring. You may get winter units battling it out but won't achieve much. Russia will try and buy until more soldiers can be trained and more equipment manufactured.


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## merzifonlu

jhungary said:


> Again, bear in mind, this is not individual personnel, nor individual equipment failure, but a systematic failure of the entire system


The Soviet doctrine, as far as I know, is: First to suppress the enemy with superior firepower and then to destroy it by encircling it with low-trained but large numbers of soldiers. The operation of this system depends entirely on the very good functioning of the army logistics.

Their disdain for guided munitions and finding them both *mostly unnecessary* and excessively expensive prepared the end for the Russians.

First, their logistics collapsed. Because they relied so much on unguided shells, they needed an excessive amount of unguided shells. This put an enormous strain on the logistics system. Ukraine's actions were the spice of the matter.

Second, the Russian artillery was destroyed without a fight because of the NATO systems, which have longer ranges than the Russian artillery systems and which make precise shots.

The fact that they considered guided munitions mostly unnecessary also showed that they were an immoral society that didn't care about the lives of civilians!

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## khansaheeb

India got a request to press the Russians...which we did: S Jaishankar on Ukraine war


India got a request to press the Russians...which we did: S Jaishankar on Ukraine war​India Today Web Desk - 15h ago
_React
_
|





External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar on Thursday said that India, acting on a "request", pressed Russia on the safety of a nuclear power plant which was near the fighting zone during the country's ongoing war with Ukraine.



India got a request to press the Russians...which we did: S Jaishankar on Ukraine war
Jaishankar, who is on his first visit to New Zealand, said India is willing to do whatever it can to facilitate a solution to the Ukraine crisis.
"When I was in the United Nations, the big concern at that time was the safety of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant because there was some fighting going on in the very proximity to it," said Jaishankar at an event with business leaders in Aukland.


"There was a request to us to press the Russians on that issue which we did. There have been other concerns at various points of time -- either different countries have raised with us or the UN has raised with us. I think at this time whatever we can do, we will be willing to do," PTI quoted Jaishankar as saying.

*Also Read | India is on the side of peace: Jaishankar on Russia-Ukraine war at UNGA*
Maintaining India's neutral stand on the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, Jaishankar said it is natural that different countries would react a little differently.
"To me, the diversities of the world which are quite evident will also naturally lead to a differential response and I would not disrespect the position of other countries as I can see that many of them are coming from their threat perception, their anxiety, their equities in Ukraine," he said.
In this situation, Mr Jaishnakar said he would see what India can do, "which obviously would be in the Indian interest, but also in the best interest of the world".
Since the outbreak of war between Russia and Ukraine in February this year, India has called for peace and the need to end the war through diplomacy.
Earlier this week, *Prime Minister Narendra Modi held a telephonic conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy*. PM Modi conveyed India's readiness to contribute to peace efforts and asserted that there cannot be any military solution to the conflict.
_(With inputs from PTI)_
*Also Read | Zelenskyy thanks PM Modi for support amid Russia-Ukraine war*
Watch Live TV in English
Watch Live TV in Hindi


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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Winter will soon and both sides will be bogged down until next spring. You may get winter units battling it out but won't achieve much. Russia will try and buy until more soldiers can be trained and more equipment manufactured.


Winter in the South and Winter in the North is quite different, being coastal, Winter will be mild at the beginning in the South than Winter coming in the North. It will give Troop in the south a few more weeks to fight before everything frozen over near December, Average temperature in Kherson is 2 to 9 degree C in Kherson during November 

Ukraine will have at least up to Mid-November before temperature drop below a point thing don't work anymore, which give Ukraine at least 5 more weeks before both sides have to dig in.

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## khansaheeb

Seems like Ukraine is a testing ground for all the weapons of war:-








Ukraine war: The British weapon firing against Russian forces


Sky News is the first team to film one of the British systems in this war.




news.sky.com


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## jhungary

merzifonlu said:


> The Soviet doctrine, as far as I know, is: First to suppress the enemy with superior firepower and then to destroy it by encircling it with low-trained but large numbers of soldiers. The operation of this system depends entirely on the very good functioning of the army logistics.
> 
> Their disdain for guided munitions and finding them both *mostly unnecessary* and excessively expensive prepared the end for the Russians.
> 
> First, their logistics collapsed. Because they relied so much on unguided shells, they needed an excessive amount of unguided shells. This put an enormous strain on the logistics system. Ukraine's actions were the spice of the matter.
> 
> Second, the Russian artillery was destroyed without a fight because of the NATO systems, which have longer ranges than the Russian artillery systems and which make precise shots.
> 
> The fact that they considered guided munitions mostly unnecessary also showed that they were an immoral society that didn't care about the lives of civilians!


The entire Soviet Doctrine was built based on what DOD describe as Area Targeting. They use their troop and resource to saturate an area of target, instead of what we do in the west and what the Ukrainian is currently doing, which is to seek weak point and attack your enemy center of gravity. All their unit are build based on that, and all our unit are build base on our own doctrine. That's why they deploy their troop in a bloc of Battalion, we deploy in companies and sometime even platoons. 

I wouldn't say they disdain PGM, rather they don't really trust it or use it according to their doctrine, because you need to take down the entire area, and swamp your troop in, it's really pointless to seek weak point because you are going to attack all of them anyway, which mean they really don't need PGM that much the way they operate. 

The thing is, Russia military knows their school of thought were out of date. They were desperate to change and that what 2008 Military reform (or 2015, I don't remember which one) is for. But then that mean you will need to change the entire structure, which mean cutting force that you don't use and changing or redirecting contract to new supplier which is going to hurt the upper echelon because they are all in bed with the supplier in Russia. 

So when one thing fail, it all started to fall apart, and that started from Russia trying to bite more than they can chew. They started 3 lines of axis for general attack when they are trying to take every town and every city in between, This mean they would need to constantly supply their military for that month they are trying to do that, which they can't because that's impossible in military term, and they aren't used to splitting their force up like that, Bear in mind almost all war Russia fought before Ukraine was one directional, and with local support. Unlike in Ukraine. 

Even US when we attacked Iraq using a 3 pronged approach (Marine from South, 3rd ID go around and attack Baghdad direct and Airborne taking Northern Iraq) we don't try to take every town because we know we can't as you will depleted your force and strain your supply line because once you used up your supply, your truck will need to go back all the way to staging point, and nobody can have a "Wagon" that big and that long. 

The reason why NATO system works is because we pin point their C&C and pin point target with high priority (communication hub, staging point, ammo depot) all those would affect how the enemy fight, and it will compound the problem simply because the size of Russian unit.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> lol, next week is next to impossible. Unless Russian line buckled on the entire front. I don't see that likely.
> 
> Probably next month, the Ukrainian may take or at least threaten Nova Kakovhka tho. After that, in about 2 or 3 weeks, they can start threatening Kherson.







Remember when I mentioned about M1117s should be sent? Exactly for that reason. And I think the Ukrainians are capable of operating them and using them for scouting or recon quite well.



jhungary said:


> lol, next week is next to impossible. Unless Russian line buckled on the entire front. I don't see that likely.
> 
> Probably next month, the Ukrainian may take or at least threaten Nova Kakovhka tho. After that, in about 2 or 3 weeks, they can start threatening Kherson.


Saw satellite pictures of them setting up trenches around Nova Kakovhka, not impressed. Easily to shred them in the trenches with accurate artillery fire and HIMARS as well as drones with grenades, even use drones at night while attacking them simultaneously with vehicles and infantry.


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Retaking Crimea is probably not possible until Ukraine have the same ratio of men and equipment than Russia.
> 
> Bear in mind the Russian line is currently stretch thin, but when they keep losing territories, they will increase their troop density in the remining stronghold.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia still have advantage at sea, it's one thing for Ukraine to defend against Russian offensive naval operation. but another to fight off a defending Russian navy.
> 
> And finally, there are two access point from Ukrainian mainland to Crimea, and that would favor the Defender because you limited your approach, and Ukraine does not have a good airborne or air assault force that can take objective inside Crimea and hold it. Which mean the defence would be heavily favourited.
> 
> That said, I would say Ukraine does not need to actually take Crimea. Once Ukraine roll over the land bridge and destroy the kerch bridge, and put AD/A2 asset in and around Crimea. And shut off electricity and water flow into Crimea, they would have to surrender eventually or basically starve the entire garrison, along with the entire Crimea population with it.


If the Ukrainians can get close to Crimea with HIMARS, the Russian Navy will have to pull back because of also threats by Harpoons and other missiles. Something to think of providing Ukrainians with ability to hit ships in every part of the Black Sea since they can never match ton for ton with ship production, but large long range missiles would be enough to compensate. If the Ukrainians can whittle down their defenses and push them back from defending the narrow strip of road from the mainland to Crimea even with the Russian artillery, they have a good chance. No air assault, remember I mentioned about providing helos?

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## Oldman1




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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is the effect of living in a democratic country instead of a dictatorship.
> We can apply sanctions against countries violating international treaties, but we will not force companies to do business with dictatorships.
> 
> If Airbus does not want to sell A310s to Iran, there is no reason for us to try to change their mind, is there?


as I said as Europe have no power to protect their companies and is a slave to USA whims , and as we don't care about empty promises and papers and agreement that have no effects . 
we care not about it , when USA come on board with agreement then call us as agreement with you guys even don't worth the paper its written on .
you guys simply don't have spine to protect yourself and interesting part we are not the one seeking an agreement , its you guys who crave it

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## Reashot Xigwin

If you want to know what Russian game show looks like this is it

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578043057114853383

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## Oldman1

Reashot Xigwin said:


> If you want to know what Russian game show looks like this is it
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578043057114853383


Watching the Russian media, it was like watching Who Wants to Be a Millionaire setting.



Paul2 said:


> Bingo:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577753851544977411







Guess Wagner is tired of the war or at least the direction its going after all they done.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> This is how we conducted armored assault. Back in the early 2000s, this is how I was taught exactly to a point how to do that.
> 
> The Humvee need to take overhead position to cover the troop, that's why they are leaving, the troop will then sieve thru the crack and engage the Russian using both cover and concealment.
> 
> This kind of assault works extremely well in difficult terrain because Humvee are high mobility, and they can get in and out of difficult terrain easy, that's why I keep saying we need to give the Ukrainian better wheeled vehicle like Stryker or LAV. They would have further their gain becasue those are better protected than Humvee.


Not the M1117s or something similar to it?


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> We demand Payment, Freeze of Interest and Loan, says Russian Conscript


No payment? They fight for free?
Putin previously pays $5,000 per month. Then he reduced to $2,500 per month. Now 0? That’s bitter.

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> lol, next week is next to impossible. Unless Russian line buckled on the entire front. I don't see that likely.
> 
> Probably next month, the Ukrainian may take or at least threaten Nova Kakovhka tho. After that, in about 2 or 3 weeks, they can start threatening Kherson.



Since Kharkiv Offensive it seems the entire Russian line to Kherson is collapsing, conscripts apparently being sent to the frontline with no training or equipment. This could be over soon.



khansaheeb said:


> Winter will soon and both sides will be bogged down until next spring. You may get winter units battling it out but won't achieve much. Russia will try and buy until more soldiers can be trained and more equipment manufactured.



Winters coming so if the Ukrainians dont get the russian s the weather will.

Russia tried to compensate a lack of training and quality equipment with large troop counts. Looks like training and quality equipment wins


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## Viet

The Missile Ukraine Wants Is One the U.S. Says It Doesn’t Need​Ukrainian officials have asked for a weapon that can strike targets 190 miles away. But the Pentagon — wary of widening the war — says the ones it has provided are powerful enough.


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The Pentagon’s Army Tactical Missile Systems, or ATACMS, are all reserved for top secret war plans in places like the Korean Peninsula.Credit...Yonhap News Agency/Via Reuters

By John Ismay
Oct. 6, 2022

Since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Pentagon officials have sent the Ukrainian military an array of equipment totaling billions of dollars. But one powerful weapon, called the Army Tactical Missile System, has become part of a debate about the limits of U.S. support for its ally.


The long-range missile — known as ATACMS and pronounced like “attack ’ems” — can strike targets 190 miles away with a warhead containing about 375 pounds of explosives. It can be fired from the HIMARS mobile launchers that the United States has provided Ukraine, as well as from older M270 launchers sent from Britain and Germany.

Ukrainian officials say the missile could help them regain Crimea, a part of the country that Russia seized in 2014. But Pentagon officials insist they are already giving Ukraine the weapons it most needs: Guided Multiple Launch Rocket Systems, or GMLRS.

And this week, a senior Pentagon official saidthat the guided rockets, which the United States has sent Ukrainian forces by the thousands, can reach most of their targets, even in Crimea.

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Why has this weapon been such a sensitive issue?​It comes down to this: concern in the White House that Ukraine could use the long-range missile to strike targets deep inside Russia, and that President Vladimir V. Putin might respond by escalating the war, possibly by invading a neighboring NATO country.
“We’re trying to avoid World War III,” President Biden has said.

But President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine says the weapon is crucial to his country’s ability to launch a wider counteroffensive after its recent advances. He has also insisted that he has no plans to strike Russian cities or target civilians.
The State of the War​
*Russia’s Retreat: *After significant gains in eastern cities like Lyman, Ukraine is pushing farther into Russian-held territory in the south, expanding its campaign as Moscow struggles to mount a response and hold the line. The Ukrainian victories came as President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia illegally annexed four regions where fighting is raging.
*Dugina Assassination: *U.S. intelligence agencies believe parts of the Ukrainian government authorized the car bomb attack near Moscow in August that killed Daria Dugina, the daughter of a prominent Russian nationalist. American officials said they were not aware of the plan ahead of time and that they had admonished Ukraine over it.
*Oil Supply Cuts: *Saudi Arabia and Russia, acting as leaders of the OPEC Plus energy cartel, agreed to a large production cut in a bid to raise prices, countering efforts by the United States and Europe to constrain the oil revenue Moscow is using to pay for its war in Ukraine.
*Putin’s Nuclear Threats: *For the first time since the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962, top Russian leaders are making explicit nuclear threats and officials in Washington are gaming out scenarios should Mr. Putin decide to use a tactical nuclear weapon.
What is this thing?​The missile was developed in the 1980s to destroy high-value Soviet targets deep behind enemy lines. It was built as a rare guided weapon at a time when the United States mainly relied on “dumb bombs” and other unguided munitions for attacking targets on the ground.

A spokeswoman for Lockheed Martin said that the company has built 60,000 GMLRS and 4,000 ATACMS to date, some of which have been sold to foreign allies. A senior defense official told The New York Times that the United States can more easily part with the less expensive guided rockets, given that the Pentagon’s tactical missiles are all reserved for top secret war plans in places like the Korean Peninsula.

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Because ATACMS is the U.S. Army’s longest-range surface-fired weapon, it has traditionally been used in missions approved by three-star generals for the highest-priority targets on a battlefield. Lower-ranking officers are allowed to launch guided rockets as needed in combat.
What was ATACMS built for?​The missile was originally designed to destroy enemy surface-to-air missile defense weapons by blanketing them with hundreds of individual bomblets.

Today, the Pentagon has two versions of the ATACMS in its inventory — the cluster weapon and one that carries a single explosive charge.

Because of the high dud rate of the bomblets carried in the cluster weapon version, the Pentagon would probably provide allies with only the variant containing a single high-explosive charge.

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ATACMS is also the Army’s oldest surface-launched missile currently in service, and a prototype of its replacement is being test-firedat White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. That weapon, called the Precision Strike Missile, will fly to ranges previously barred by the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty.

Live Updates: Russia-Ukraine War​3 hours ago

Biden calls the ‘prospect of Armageddon’ the highest since the Cuban missile crisis.
Ukrainian police have found the bodies of 534 civilians and evidence of torture in recaptured territory.
Two Russians who braved miles of open sea arrive on an Alaskan island and request asylum.

Since the Trump administration chose to exit that pact in early 2019, the Pentagon has accelerated development of the Precision Strike Missile, which is smaller and can fly much farther than its predecessor. Two can fit into the same size container that carries a single tactical missile.

Has the U.S. used them in combat?​Yes. The U.S. military fired around 30 ATACMS in 1991 during Operation Desert Storm, according to government records. They were used to strike Iraq’s medium-range ballistic missile launchers and surface-to-air missile sites.

Those first-generation cluster munition versions could fly about 100 miles. Once over their targets, they released 950 bomblets.

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The Pentagon later restricted the use of cluster munitions because they often failed, littering battlefields with hazardous duds that killed and wounded friendly and enemy soldiers as well as civilians after combat ended. The Army refurbished many of the early ATACMS in the 2000s and replaced the bomblets with a single explosive warhead.

The Army fired more than 400 of the bomblet-carrying tactical missiles in Operation Iraqi Freedom, according to government records, most notably in the early hours of the 2003 invasion.

The U.S. Navy considered adopting the tactical missiles for use on submarines and warships — and even test-fired one from an armored launch vehicle on the flight deck of an amphibious ship off the coast of San Diego in 1995 — but ultimately decided against purchasing it.

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Occasionally, U.S. military leaders fire a tactical missile from South Korea into the ocean after North Korea test-fires its own missiles, as in June.

Image




A High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS, can be used to fire the guided rockets the United States has been giving Ukraine as well as the longer-range missiles that it wants.Credit...Fadel Senna/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
Why does Ukraine want it?​One word: range. And given that it is the Army’s longest-range ground-fired missile, and that the United States does not have very many of them, providing it to Ukraine could be seen as a sign of America’s commitment to Kyiv.

But there are trade-offs in terms of capabilities.

Compared with the GMLRS, the version of the ATACMS that Ukraine wants carries an explosive warhead that is about 50 percent larger and can strike targets more than three times as far.

The tactical missile is much larger though, about 13 feet long and 2 feet wide, and weighs about 3,000 pounds. As a result, a mobile launcher like the M142 HIMARS can carry six guided rockets but only one tactical missile at a time.

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Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the Ukrainians need the guided rockets more than they need to be able to attack at longer ranges.

“Volume matters,” General Milley told reporters in July. He said that both weapons were “very effective,” but that right now the GMLRS were “really fulfilling their need.”

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian military destroys hangar with Bayraktar drones with Iskander strike


The Russian military destroyed a hangar with Bayraktar TB2 drones...




news.am













Zaporizhzhia attacked with Iskander missiles


Russian troops attacked Zaporizhzhia city with Iskander-K missiles this morning. — Ukrinform.




www.ukrinform.net

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Since Kharkiv Offensive it seems the entire Russian line to Kherson is collapsing, conscripts apparently being sent to the frontline with no training or equipment. This could be over soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Winters coming so if the Ukrainians dont get the russian s the weather will.
> 
> Russia tried to compensate a lack of training and quality equipment with large troop counts. Looks like training and quality equipment wins


While I do hope so, but this is probably some wishful thinking. 

There are still ferry and barge ferry supplies to Kherson, not much but at least they keep it coming, it will last longer than the troop East of Kherson, there were talk of low morale and talk of surrender every sine Kharkiv Offensive, not that much on Kherson.



Viet said:


> No payment? They fight for free?
> Putin previously pays $5,000 per month. Then he reduced to $2,500 per month. Now 0? That’s bitter.


Well, that's what the man said. Nothing, they don't even delay these people mortgage when they pull them off, and ask him to talk to their bank. That's lol

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## Inception-06

jhungary said:


> That's another problem.
> 
> Again, bear in mind, this is not individual personnel, nor individual equipment failure, but a systematic failure of the entire system. From top to bottom, and that system is, or was (Honestly I don't think anyone will go with Russian system after this) one of the only 2 doctrines in the world. The other being Western and NATO doctrine.
> 
> Now country that follow Russian doctrine would be shaking their boots, because you literally see the entire system disintegrated in front of your eyes on TV. the problem is, if this is the case, what can you change to?
> 
> Assuming the Russian system is poisonous, everything and anything derived from it would have been fruit from a poisonous tree, and it will only be second best to the Western or NATO system. Which mean either someone have to come up with a military doctrine that's built from scratch, or they would have to follow the Western Doctrine, however, since many of those who uses Russian Doctrine are NATO enemies, no one on the NATO side will help them establish NATO like system in their own country.
> 
> Which means, until a new doctrine, most possibly from China or even India or one of those regional military power come forward, there are not a military doctrine that can challenge the west. And that will send shockwave to the core of most country that uses Russian Doctrine. Because essentially, people know how to defeat your army.



You are right, I think Pakistan is a example of trying to follow the western war doctrine and British discipline while of60% of Pakistani equipment is originated from soviet origin or routes. The same goes for India. China May be trying to change and develop them self as they have shown in the past war history in Korea and Vietnam. The Chinese are very good learners.

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## DF41

https://****/Slavyangrad/12419 

_***** = t dot me*_


🤡🤡🤡😆😆😆

⚔️🇺🇸🐮💩 Fiend Analysis of the situation in Ukraine from American Troll and Muzzlewhores Institute for the Study of War (ISW):

⚠️ Even if you trolls and morons don't like it, Wagner not only likely made incremental gains around Bakhmut. They have taken over two settlements 100%! Why likely? Graduate in mathemathics missing or only semantic problems? And naming of those, who are not allowed to be named ( when they are successful) helps against fear, as we know from Harry Potter. 🍻

October 6 Key Takeaways🔻 

▪️ Russia’s use of Iranian-made drones is not generating asymmetric effects the way the Ukrainian use of US-provided HIMARS systems has done and is unlikely to affect the course of the war significantly.

▪️ The Wagner Private Military Company announced the creation of its own private Telegram channel on October 6, indicating that Wagner financier Yevgeny Prigozhin may want a voice that is clearly his own to compete with milbloggers and possibly Chechen warlord Ramzan Kadyrov, who all have their own Telegram channels.

▪️ Ukrainian forces likely continued counteroffensive operations in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast near Kupyansk and operations to threaten Russian positions along the Kreminna-Svatove road in western Luhansk Oblast on October 6.

▪️ Russian troops are likely establishing defensive positions in upper Kherson Oblast following the collapse of the Russian line in northeast Kherson.

▪️ Russian troops continued ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on October 6 and likely made incremental gains around Bakhmut.

▪️ Russian forces continued to conduct routine artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole, and in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv Oblasts on October 6.

▪️ Local Russian officials appear to be frantically looking for ways to fund their mobilized units as the Kremlin increasingly expects local administrations to pay for the war effort from their own budgets.

▪️ The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on October 6 that Russian forces began the forced mobilization of Ukrainian citizens in Russian-occupied Kremmina and Starobilsk, Luhansk Oblast.

@Slavyangrad/@TheStudyofWar/ ****/SLG_MAPS/247
Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community

Source: understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-october-6 🥁🥁🥁01BTC10:
If the HIMARS make a difference like they claim then Russian's much more numerous Tornado system should win the war?

E On:
In a recent interview US Ret. Gen. Jack Keene holds that Ukraine military (UkA) with USA provided resources (F16s, tanks, etc.) will be able, in the spring offensive, to retake the Donbas & the south. 

Keene holds that Putin needs to be taught a lesson, and with the US's resources the UkA will be able to give Putin & the RF a decisive, unforgetable defeat.

The ret Gen. has minimal regard for the RF mobilized troops. He considers them weak, demoralized, incapable of defeating the new improved UkArmy.

Listen to the man & judge for yourself:









L L & Levin with Gen Jack Keene Oct 2 2022







rumble.com





Vasyl Jirov:
Aint this the same guy that got his *** kicked by farmers and never won a major war in his life? Smells like copium

Greg:
Isw are clowns 🤡

E On:
A PROFITABLE WAR 4 US

N.B. I haven't yet located on which Fox News programme Ret. Gen Jack Keene said the following.... He sees the bloody conflict in Ukraine as a big financial savings for the US....! (What about all those human lives that are killed...? And these people, especially the interviewers, NEVER talk about the 8+ years of the thousands of murdered civilians in the Donbass & in the south....) 

From Elena's comment on iEarlGray Telegram channel
https://****/c/1550682061/118383
"American General Jack Keane honestly admitted today on the Fox News channel: “For just $66 billion, we got Ukraine at war with Russia.”

According to him, the United States has invested about $66 billion in the Kyiv regime since February of this year, which helped arm Ukraine and set up local society for war with Russia. The old warrior said that “investments in Ukraine today are very profitable, because for relatively little money in the interests of the United States, not Americans die in the war with Russia, but Ukrainians.”

The confessions of the former chief of staff of the US Army are so cynical and frank that they knock the ground out of all pacifists and supporters of a peaceful settlement of the conflict in Ukraine. The questions of who attacked first and why this is necessary disappear by themselves. You just need to carefully listen to the words of the general:

“Some Republicans doubt the correctness of our spending today, including on Ukraine. But we have a budget of 6 trillion dollars, and, in fact, it is several hundred billion more. We invested crumbs in Ukraine - only 66 billion a year. This is 1.1% of the budget. And we get disproportionately large benefits.

Jack Keane clearly indicates the goal of the United States: “Washington was able to do the main thing, create a serious rival for Moscow on the borders of Russia, which will have to prevent the Russian leadership from pursuing a policy of influence in Eastern Europe, especially in the countries of the former USSR ... This will deprive them of the opportunity under Putin to realize their ambitions, how to take, for example, some of the Soviet republics back .... And, if this happened, and Russia still took some former republic of the USSR, then NATO would start a war.

The scale of this war would be much larger than what is happening now. And the risks of nuclear would be much higher. And the consequences of such a conflict are completely incomprehensible and not obvious to either side. This is what we avoided throughout the Cold War, a conventional war between two nuclear powers. Therefore, such an investment, specifically in Ukrainians, who are fighting Russia in the interests of the United States, is very profitable.”

The general's revelations need to be printed out in the form of leaflets and glued on their foreheads, to everyone who is against holding an NWO."


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Not the M1117s or something similar to it?


I would say Stryker or LAV would better suit the role. You can carry more troop into combat that way. M1117 are mostly used for ISTAR, it makes sense for Afghan to have it because they would need to call US Air Strike on target, it wouldn't make sense for the Ukrainian to have them.



Oldman1 said:


> If the Ukrainians can get close to Crimea with HIMARS, the Russian Navy will have to pull back because of also threats by Harpoons and other missiles. Something to think of providing Ukrainians with ability to hit ships in every part of the Black Sea since they can never match ton for ton with ship production, but large long range missiles would be enough to compensate. If the Ukrainians can whittle down their defenses and push them back from defending the narrow strip of road from the mainland to Crimea even with the Russian artillery, they have a good chance. No air assault, remember I mentioned about providing helos?


Ukraine won't put HIMARS close to the frontline, that is a good way to have them destroyed by COUNTBAT or Airstrike. they will put them inland, The reason is Russia don't need to put pressure on Ukraine if their job is to defend Crimea, it would have been another way around. Which mean the Ukrainian would expose their troop in order to go on the attack.

It's very hard to crack Crimea defence, traditional sense you would need to have naval superiority to be able to take it. Again, I don't know if Russian is this inept but what I am saying is the general term.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Remember when I mentioned about M1117s should be sent? Exactly for that reason. And I think the Ukrainians are capable of operating them and using them for scouting or recon quite well.
> 
> 
> Saw satellite pictures of them setting up trenches around Nova Kakovhka, not impressed. Easily to shred them in the trenches with accurate artillery fire and HIMARS as well as drones with grenades, even use drones at night while attacking them simultaneously with vehicles and infantry.


Already mentioned M1117 so I am not going to talk about it again. 

As for Nova Kakovhka, well, you still need to get there and dislodge them from their position before you can take it, that would take a week considering the Ukrainian is still around 60km from Nova Kakovhka.

And if you ask me, if you only started digging trench when you see your enemy at the gate, you are not going to hold that city..



Inception-06 said:


> You are right, I think Pakistan is a example of trying to follow the western war doctrine and British discipline while of60% of Pakistani equipment is originated from soviet origin or routes. The same goes for India. China May be trying to change and develop them self as they have shown in the past war history in Korea and Vietnam. The Chinese are very good learners.


Pakistan is another issue, China on the other hand, are quite heavily entrenched into Soviet Doctrine. You can see that from the unit distribution and formation of the Chinese PLA.

Problem is not whether or not Chinese can learn, the problem is, there are no one to teach them, which make their way to make their own doctrine ever harder. on the other hand, it would be easier for both Pakistan and India to migrate to Western or Western like System. Because both have Western Influence within their system. In this case, I think even Pakistan can teach the Chinese about Western Doctrine. But that would not be comprehensive tho, it would just be a start.

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## DF41

https://****/Slavyangrad/12420 
_***** = t dot me*_


🥁🥁🥁😆😆😆

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Summary of the 6th Separate Cossack Regiment for October 6⚡️

🔥 During the merciless fire of the artillery and units of the regiment were destroyed:

▪️ MLRS Rocket Division Fire: 1 Unit, 2 trucks, 16 Ukranazis

▪️ Howitzer Division Fire: 2 Guns, 1 SAU, 1 Pickup Truck, 14 Ukrofascists

▪️ Fire from Automatic Grenade Launchers: Up to 12 personnel

▪️ Fire from ATGM Units: 1 Pickup Truck, 1 BMP

And just now these ukrofascists were driving by bus on the #Soledar - #Artemovsk Highway, apparently they were bringing help, and then BAM ... 💥
ATGM rocket - and there is no group of fascists!

How many? The Ukropians will write a figure in their casualty list later!

****/Slavyangrad /@evgeniy_lisitsyn/#VID
Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community

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## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578318683754987520
Single drone taking out multiple russian terrorists

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## Inception-06

KAL-EL said:


> Romania was once also home to the most powerful being on Earth.
> 
> A being that still quite possibly walks the Earth today.


 You mean Dracula ?

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## Viet

Shoigu’s day as defense minister seems finished. At the front of Kherson, Putin forbids the troop to retreat. That will end very ugly for the russian troops.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577290218184523788


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## KAL-EL

Inception-06 said:


> You mean Dracula ?



Yes.. Count Vad Tepes Dracula.

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## Inception-06

KAL-EL said:


> Yes.. Count Vad Tepes Dracula.
> 
> View attachment 885300


Is that yours and what does it mean ? Do yYou believe the Dracula story?


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## jhungary

Joke of the day - I saw this on one of the Telegram channel

Shoigu : There will be no problem sending our 300,000 recently mobilised men to the frontline.
Putin : Really? I know the West has been lying, propaganda, propaganda
Shoigu : Da, by then the Ukrainian would have push the frontline back in Russian border.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578343682461532160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578342101825134593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578339876596244481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578338717592190977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578338180851326977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578325631711858688

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Joke of the day - I saw this on one of the Telegram channel
> 
> Shoigu : There will be no problem sending our 300,000 recently mobilised men to the frontline.
> Putin : Really? I know the West has been lying, propaganda, propaganda
> Shoigu : Da, by then the Ukrainian would have push the frontline back in Russian border.


The from Moscow installed vice chief of Kherson says Shoigu is a failure he must be executed.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578303019518525441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578352590282452993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578332160729436160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578314730229231616

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## Viet

Good progress

Ukraine army is retaking 400 square km at Kherson.






Ukrainian servicemen shoot from a captured Russian howitzer on a front line near Kupyansk city in the Kharkiv area, 6 October 2022. Photograph: Sergey Kozlov/









400 Quadratkilometer zurückerobert


Die ukrainische Armee hat in Cherson 400 Quadratkilometer zurückerobert. Gleichzeitig meldet Russland Einnahme von Siedlung in Donezk.




www.sueddeutsche.de

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578292879319240706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578262612176826368

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> This is Veselaia Dolina. Hard to believe the area around it contains 3 brigades of whom one was defending Kharkiv a few weeks ago and another is south of Donetsk.
> View attachment 880920


Lol, didn't they say Veselaia Dolina has already been captured back in September 19? So what is it? They re-capture it again on Oct 7??


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578303019518525441


Viet said:


> The from Moscow installed vice chief of Kherson says Shoigu is a failure he must be executed.


Sad truth is, the Moscow installed vice chief in kherson will most likely be killed way before Shoigu.....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The first year of the war there is not much fighting. There is a lot more fighting in the second year of the war. Pre war, Russia had 150 million people, Ukraine had 37 million people. 4 times.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578341981016555520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578323188655980544

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578262612176826368

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578343682461532160
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578342101825134593
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578339876596244481
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578338717592190977
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578338180851326977
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578325631711858688


Putin rotating his generals faster than a Turkish carousel.

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## Deino

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The first year of the war there is not much fighting. There is a lot more fighting in the second year of the war. Pre war, Russia had 150 million people, Ukraine had 37 million people. 4 times.




Can you simply stop posting at all since stop posting BS is impossible to you!
In fact, I really have no clue where so much non-sense and stupidity can grow but since you cannot off-load this BS at the SDF, it seems you misuse this forum to download yourtwisted reality! 

Do us all a favour, and stop with this BS!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578357718351777792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578357350033162241

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## Reashot Xigwin

FYI tampons doesn't stop bullet wounds that's a myth. Use a Gauze like normal people. How fukked up Russia have to be that they can't even go to a store to buy Gauze. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578280000452792322


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578303897378050048

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> FYI tampons doesn't stop bullet wounds that's a myth. Use a Gauze like normal people. How fukked up Russia have to be that they can't even go to a store to buy Gauze.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578280000452792322


Would love to see how you can stop a sucking chest wound with tampons.......

I mean those Ads saying their absorption rate is good, but I believe no ladies monthly issue is as bad as a sucking chest wound....


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578372759239131136

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Would love to see how you can stop a sucking chest wound with tampons.......
> 
> I mean those Ads saying their absorption rate is good, but I believe no ladies monthly issue is as bad as a sucking chest wound....


Never stop your enemy from making mistakes but I think this is just being unnecessarily cruel at this point. If they get sent into battle I hope they died quickly.


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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Never stop your enemy from making mistakes but I think this is just being unnecessarily cruel at this point. If they get sent into battle I hope they died quickly.


Well, that's not going to end well........even if you have gauss, I think you will need hemostat for that..

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## Deino

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578372759239131136




Since you constantly calls all Ukrainians Nazis ... seems as if Russia has no true issues with Nazis as long as they are their own Nazis!?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578357984278720512

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Deino said:


> Since you constantly calls all Ukrainians Nazis ... seems as if Russia has no true issues with Nazis as long as they are their own Nazis!?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578357984278720512



I never called Ukrainians Nazis and I bet you cannot find a single post I made that calls Ukrainian Nazis.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hind shturmoviks built at Mil helicopter plant

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Well, that's not going to end well........even if you have gauss, I think you will need hemostat for that..


& some sort of coagulant + morphine + stappler & all the other stuffs. This is Russia we talking about. Their morphine are probably just Vodka & a club to head.

Where the heck did they get in their head that Tampon stop bullet wounds. Don't they know that Bullet caused cavity?


----------



## ziaulislam

Zelanski calls for preemptive nuclear strikes on Russia

Next few weeks will tell us where this is heading.


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## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> Lol, didn't they say Veselaia Dolina has already been captured back in September 19? So what is it? They re-capture it again on Oct 7??
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578303019518525441
> 
> Sad truth is, the Moscow installed vice chief in kherson will most likely be killed way before Shoigu.....


I fail to understand why the russian population is accepting a leadership that is openly lying and exploiting its natural resources.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ziaulislam said:


> Zelanski calls for preemptive nuclear strikes on Russia
> 
> Next few weeks will tell us where this is heading.



European men are the most war mongering men. They did Hundred Years War, Thirty Years War, WW1, WW2. No other men is as brutal as European men.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578366303374450688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578377018412093440

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> I fail to understand why the russian population is accepting a leadership that is openly lying and exploiting its natural resources.


Well, that's just the tip of the iceburg, you need to watch Russian State TV program to believe the level of brain washing being pipe into Russian.

It's like back in WW2 when German blindly follow Hitler and when Japanese blindly follow their emperor.

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## ziaulislam

jhungary said:


> Well, that's just the tip of the iceburg, you need to watch Russian State TV program to believe the level of brain washing being pipe into Russian.
> 
> It's like back in WW2 when German blindly follow Hitler and when Japanese blindly follow their emperor.


And british also blindly followed their govt.

History is written by victors


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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> & some sort of coagulant + morphine + stappler & all the other stuffs. This is Russia we talking about. Their morphine are probably just Vodka & a club to head.
> 
> Where the heck did they get in their head that Tampon stop bullet wounds. Don't they know that Bullet caused cavity?


Well, maybe they think they are uberman......I dont know. But then nothing they do make any military sense anymore.

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## ziaulislam

Sure Hitler killed millions of European but for Indians what mattered more was how Churchill killed millions of Indians by back stabbing them(despite Indians fighting for them)

Being evil is relative term in geo politics

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## Reashot Xigwin

MeFishToo said:


> I fail to understand why the russian population is accepting a leadership that is openly lying and exploiting its natural resources.


 Brainwashed pops what do you expect? & with Russia there's cultural & historical reason for it.


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## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> And british also blindly followed their govt.
> 
> History is written by victors


Well, in UK, you have every kind of voice, be it pro-Government, anti-government, anti-human, or whatever. 

In Russia? There are only 1 way, or you go to jail. 

I mean, if you think British blindly follow their government, then you have no idea how much crazy stuff Russia take and still willingly to do what the government told them to. It's not like Tucker Carlson at Fox, that's funny, those dude with channel 1 in Russia?? They are freaking crazy.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Well, in UK, you have every kind of voice, be it pro-Government, anti-government, anti-human, or whatever.
> 
> In Russia? There are only 1 way, or you go to jail.
> 
> I mean, if you think British blindly follow their government, then you have no idea how much crazy stuff Russia take and still willingly to do what the government told them to. It's not like Tucker Carlson at Fox, that's funny, those dude with channel 1 in Russia?? They are freaking crazy.



Ukraine and Russia are fascist countries. People who dissent are arrested and killed.


----------



## Viet

The winter approaching. Ukraine wants more air defense systems delivery from the West in participation of Russia increased air assaults.







Ukrainian soldiers fire, on the front line in the Kharkiv region, Ukraine, Wednesday, Oct. 5, 2022. | Andrii Marienko





__





Ukraine reworks its weapons wish list as winter approaches - POLITICO






www.politico.com


----------



## ziaulislam

jhungary said:


> Well, in UK, you have every kind of voice, be it pro-Government, anti-government, anti-human, or whatever.
> 
> In Russia? There are only 1 way, or you go to jail.
> 
> I mean, if you think British blindly follow their government, then you have no idea how much crazy stuff Russia take and still willingly to do what the government told them to. It's not like Tucker Carlson at Fox, that's funny, those dude with channel 1 in Russia?? They are freaking crazy.


Majority of British did blindly followed their govt and killed millions of people throughout Asia and Africa just like how Hitler Germans followed their leader.

But why Churchill praised and Hitler condemned? Because victors write the history

Germans created a militancy group called free Indian army.

I imagine of British had lost and Indian freed up through that mechanism we would have been talking about British atrocities today.

Noone talks about how millions were killed by French in Algeria for same reason

Sure Russia is dictatorship, you don't expect more then a single channel but I doubt even without that Russians would have still supported a war seeing what was happening to minsk agreement and ukriane inflexibility in Russian speaking areas

We are seeing lack of freedom in Ukraine too.

The just solution is to let people decide as musk put it out on Twitter but west and probably even Russia won't agree to that

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## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> Majority of British did blindly followed their govt and killed millions of people throughout Asia and Africa just like how Hitler Germans followed their leader.
> 
> But why Churchill praised and Hitler condemned? Because victors write the history
> 
> Germans created a militancy group called free Indian army.
> 
> I imagine of British had lost and Indian freed up through that mechanism we would have been talking about British atrocities today.
> 
> Noone talks about how millions were killed by French in Algeria for same reason
> 
> Sure Russia is dictatorship, you don't expect more then a single channel but I doubt even without that Russians would have still supported a war seeing what was happening to minsk agreement and ukriane inflexibility in Russian speaking areas


You have no idea what the Russian TV channel said?

Unless BBC started to broadcast news segment calling for Russian to die in a nuclear blast for their country so they can nuke the UK, and quote "We need to make necessary sacrifice". That's not the same thing here. So yes, they support the war, would they want to destroy themselves like Channel 1 said just so they can nuke Britain??

And lol, they support the war because they don't know what is happening, would you willing to be sent to the frontline when they give you 5 days of training and give you subpar weapon, knowing the war has been there for 7 months and they have been rolling by an experience army and then not pay you and not even take care of your family? I don't know what will you do, for me, I don't think that is a good deal. I ain't stupid, and I don't know about you.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578349915826425856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578324949000806402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578282671926824961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578263377226657792

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578399398916136961

Reactions: Like Like:
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## merzifonlu

jhungary said:


> I wouldn't say they disdain PGM, rather they don't really trust it or use it according to their doctrine, because you need to take down the entire area, and swamp your troop in, it's really pointless to seek weak point because you are going to attack all of them anyway, which mean they really don't need PGM that much the way they operate.


No, they really despise PGMs. They described us hitting almost every target with PGM in Syria Operations as stupidity and unnecessary expense. Anyway, we come to the same conclusion in the end. Soviet doctrine does not work on the battlefield of the 21st century.

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## gambit

Deino said:


> Can you simply stop posting at all since stop posting BS is impossible to you!
> In fact, I really have no clue where so much non-sense and stupidity can grow but since you cannot off-load this BS at the SDF, it seems you *misuse* this forum to download yourtwisted reality!
> 
> Do us all a favour, and stop with this BS!


Misuse? I told you guys *YEARS* ago that the Chinese will abuse your playground and the warning was ignored. If anything, there were more than a couple of people who warned the admin staff of such, and the Chinese member of the admin staff gave us warnings and essentially done nothing. Get this straight -- the PDF Chinese cohort do not respect your house.

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## gambit

Apparently, the US Army 'foreign technology exploitation' office is working OT thanks to Ukraine.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Putin's birthday gift to Ukraine: Russia is now Kyiv's largest arms supplier with more than HALF of its tanks​








Russia is now Ukraine's largest arms supplier


Ukraine has captured more than 400 Russian tanks and 600 fighting vehicles since the war began, analysis shows, which far outstrips the number that have been donated by allies.




www.dailymail.co.uk







> Ukraine's rout of Russia's armies in Kharkiv oblast last month yielded huge amounts of gear, meaning more than *400 tanks*, *600 armoured *vehicles, and *44 multiple-launch rocket systems *have been captured in working or near-working condition.
> 
> It means that, in terms of pure numbers, *Russia is now easily the largest supplier of weapons to Ukraine - outpacing all other allies combined*.



Interesting article for a good laugh..


----------



## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin's birthday gift to Ukraine: Russia is now Kyiv's largest arms supplier with more than HALF of its tanks​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is now Ukraine's largest arms supplier
> 
> 
> Ukraine has captured more than 400 Russian tanks and 600 fighting vehicles since the war began, analysis shows, which far outstrips the number that have been donated by allies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



Yap, all the goodies of 1st tank army. They hugely lost personnel, and seemingly been burdened by excess hardware - they been running 2 man tank crews, and APCs/IFVs without dedicated commanders.

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## Viet

Big gift from Russia

Ukraine “received” 400 tanks of different models from fleeing Russians. Plus 650 armored vehicles.
Interesting, usually a retreating army destroys military equipment however the russians haven’t done that. Dumb.







Ukrainische Soldaten bergen einen russischen Panzer nahe Charkiw am 30. September. © YASUYOSHI CHIBA/AFP/Getty Images

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578415587436683264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578417092571037697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578412478286872576


Viet said:


> Big gift from Russia
> 
> Ukraine “received” 400 tanks of different models from fleeing Russians. Plus 650 armored vehicles.
> Interesting, usually a retreating army destroys military equipment however the russians haven’t done that. Dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainische Soldaten bergen einen russischen Panzer nahe Charkiw am 30. September. © YASUYOSHI CHIBA/AFP/Getty Images



Most of these tanks don't work anyway.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578428071199137792

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## Viet

IMAGE SOURCE, ARIS MESSINIS
Image caption, 
Less than 2% of foreign arms deliveries to Ukraine are contributed by France.

US 49%
Poland 22%
Germany 9%
France 2%


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> IMAGE SOURCE, ARIS MESSINIS
> Image caption,
> Less than 2% of foreign arms deliveries to Ukraine are contributed by France.
> 
> US 49%
> Poland 22%
> Germany 9%
> France 2%



Napoleon and Hitler got butt whopped by Russians. French and Germans are cucks. Only the US and Poland fight Russia.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578392017377394688

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578432740399063040

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Would love to see how you can stop a sucking chest wound with tampons.......
> 
> I mean those Ads saying their absorption rate is good, but I believe no ladies monthly issue is as bad as a sucking chest wound....


why you want to absorb the blood ? to hide the bleeding ?
when i face such patient the last thing i do is hiding the bleeding . instead it must be stopped with pressure till you can have access to a more permanent solution. and believe me tampoon is the last thing you want to use to stop bleeding



jhungary said:


> Well, that's not going to end well........even if you have gauss, I think you will need hemostat for that..


hemostat is ideal ,but if you don't have that if your pain tolerance is good you can do some miracles with several gauze , at least it can keep you from dying of blood loss

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## dbc

Russian State Propaganda  
I think Putin should hire our very own Mr Walker as the head of their propaganda team. Compared to the clowns in charge now our Mr Walker would have the Russians believe Russia is Eden itself.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577768742066524168












Russia warns citizens about Black, gay people if they flee country


The satirical skits have been shared on pro-Kremlin Telegram channels and have gone viral on Twitter with more than 450,000 views.




www.newsweek.com

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Big gift from Russia
> 
> Ukraine “received” 400 tanks of different models from fleeing Russians. Plus 650 armored vehicles.
> Interesting, usually a retreating army destroys military equipment however the russians haven’t done that. Dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainische Soldaten bergen einen russischen Panzer nahe Charkiw am 30. September. © YASUYOSHI CHIBA/AFP/Getty Images



Usually they just throw their standard issue hand grenade inside. That's usually not enough to set the tank on fire.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578446984545185792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578447249029627905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578408679153336321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578441749705666562

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578438022990680064


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578432453944827904

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578391926486835201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578392091696287744


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578343682461532160





Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578438022990680064

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578434640108736513


----------



## Paul2

Ukrainians were apparently very short on automatic grenade launchers. Significant amounts of Mk 19s coming from USA have made it possible to give multiple weapons per inf company, and dramatically easing assaults on fortified outposts in the south.

Prior, they had to stop, and wait for 81mm or 120mm to deploy, and fire, or wait for tanks, now they have an option to suppress, and clear trench networks from 1km on the go.

------------------------

US absolutely flooded Ukraine with small arms ammo for months to come. The level of small arms ammo expenditure they can afford now is "prior unimaginable" as one sergeant from 128th brigade said.

That's the one giant benefit of having civilian small arms industry the US have.

Now, compare that with accounts of RU _light infantry_ regularly running out of small arms ammo in the field. Russia had no plan B for infantry supplies when they were launching this campaign.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> Well, that's just the tip of the iceburg, you need to watch Russian State TV program to believe the level of brain washing being pipe into Russian.
> 
> It's like back in WW2 when German blindly follow Hitler and when Japanese blindly follow their emperor.


Ive watched some. Its grotesque and probably running 24/7, but still, anyone with common sense knows this is propaganda.The entire population must be in some state of apathy.


----------



## Mista

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578389020664545284

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Sad Sad:
3 | Angry Angry:
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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578084491750522881



This is a video from the same 128th brigade by the way. They been fighting for months in the Khesanh, and took double digit losses. I am surprised they can still deliver such frequent offensives.

From what I know, they have a lot of ethnic Hungarians there.


----------



## The SC




----------



## yuba

Mista said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578389020664545284


Poor man lost everything must be wishing everyday he was also in the house


----------



## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Brainwashed pops what do you expect? & with Russia there's cultural & historical reason for it.


Yes, the Zar is good and his people are not. Im not blind to the fact that Ukraine isnt (or hopefully wasnt) much different. It just blows my mind that 140 million people act like zombies in Russia. They do not strike me as if theyre afraid of fighting - just not against the system.


----------



## dbc

Ukrainian Kamikaze Drone Attacks Bomber Base Deep In Russia (Updated)


A Ukrainian drone attacked a Russian Tu-22M bomber base, which has been a hub for strikes on Ukrainian targets, far across the border.




www.thedrive.com

Reactions: Wow Wow:

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## aziqbal

Russia is losing way too much men and materials


----------



## PakFactor

Mista said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578389020664545284



I didn't see as much sympathy for Afghans and Iraqis who lost entire families through coalition strikes; do you expect me to feel empathy? This is no different than what's happened in the past; let's call it what it is, collateral damage. Shit happens in war people die, according to American and Western soldiers and officers.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Napoleon and Hitler got butt whopped by Russians. French and Germans are cucks. Only the US and Poland fight Russia.


Putin copies facism from Germany? Well done.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

PakFactor said:


> I didn't see as much sympathy for Afghans and Iraqis who lost entire families through coalition strikes; do you expect me to feel empathy? This is no different than what's happened in the past; let's call it what it is, collateral damage. Shit happens in war people die, according to American and Western soldiers and officers.


Except the civilians are the target this time. Blame the ISAF or the coalition all you want but they never targeted children hospitals, concerts, civilian convoys & what have you. This time it's not collateral this is just war crimes & crimes against humanity in general. I'm not even talking about the second Holocaust level of atrocity the Ukrainian will discover after this war.

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## PakFactor

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Except the civilians are the target this time. Blame the ISAF or the coalition all you want but they never targeted children hospitals, concerts, civilian convoys & what have you. This time it's not collateral this is just war crimes & crimes against humanity in general. I'm not even talking about the second Holocaust level of atrocity the Ukrainian will discover after this war.



Weddings and other activities were targeted. So let's not pussy foot around. This is collateral damage—a war crime, my ***.
The last 20 years have blurred the lines of what are and aren't war crimes. Unfortunately, it's left up to the belligerents to determine as it suits each's narrative.

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## Reashot Xigwin

PakFactor said:


> Weddings and other activities were targeted. So let's not pussy foot around. This is collateral damage—a war crime, my ***.


Usually targeting a high ranking terrorist. So at least there's a reason for it to be called a collateral. And unlike the russian the US actually admits it. Tell me again the reason why Russia targetted maternity hospital? 

Also them using chem weapons in syria. And all the rapes. Like to the Ukrainian this is pretty much their equivalent of the rape of Nanking. 

Also Ukrainian review of Iranian made drone:

"They are primitive handmade product, its are not high-tech conveyor belt production. Like the [Turkish] Bayraktar or the Israeli [unmanned aerial vehicle]"

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578460595245879296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578489774993993728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578472575067631617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578460321961811971

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578455977669853184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578378965856800768

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## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Usually targeting a high ranking terrorist. So at least there's a reason for it to be called a collateral. And unlike the russian the US actually admits it. Tell me again the reason why Russia targetted maternity hospital?
> 
> Also them using chem weapons in syria. And all the rapes. Like to the Ukrainian this is pretty much their equivalent of the rape of Nanking.
> 
> Also Ukrainian review of Iranian made drone:
> 
> "They are primitive handmade product, its are not high-tech conveyor belt production. Like the [Turkish] Bayraktar or the Israeli [unmanned aerial vehicle]"


Its like a modern V-1 fergeltungswaffe. Used exactly like that, just to get revenge. But must be rather easy to shoot down, if not launched in swarms. Point defence with anti aircraft guns is going to have a revival in the future.
With a speed of less than 200 km/h a couple of MG3 with tracers probably have a small chance of shooting it down.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578483397558554624

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## Paul2

dbc said:


> Ukrainian Kamikaze Drone Attacks Bomber Base Deep In Russia (Updated)
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian drone attacked a Russian Tu-22M bomber base, which has been a hub for strikes on Ukrainian targets, far across the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



Tu22? $160m per pop. That's the price russians tried to sell them to China in early 200x

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578475686247157760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578474648630890497


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578470082304352256





Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578457684684472321




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578470088088264704


Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578483397558554624



Chechens have very high birth rate, like rebels in Syria and Taliban in Afghanistan. And you now see. The advantage of very high birth rate.

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## Reashot Xigwin

MeFishToo said:


> Its like a modern V-1 fergeltungswaffe. Used exactly like that, just to get revenge. But must be rather easy to shoot down, if not launched in swarms. Point defence with anti aircraft guns is going to have a revival in the future.


At least Hitler doesn't outsource the V-1 & 2 production to a third country. Russia is too dumb to attach a scooter engine to drone now? 

Someone should donate Bofors to the Ukrainian.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578465548324995073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578457697602928640

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SalarHaqq

60-80% of Twitter accounts posting on Russia-Ukraine war bots, 90% ‘pro Ukraine’, finds new study​
Scholars from the University of Adelaide studied 5.2 million posts shared between 23 February & 8 March & found the bots may be pushing people to flee their homes in these countries.​
Regina Mihindukulasuriya
5 September, 2022 09:33 am IST






Representational image | Russia attacks Kyiv TV tower, Ukraine | 1 March 2022 | Twitter/@DefenceU​

*New Delhi*: Between 60 and 80 per cent of Twitter handles posting on the Russia-Ukraine war may be bot accounts, a research by scholars from the University of Adelaide, Australia has found. Among other influences, these bot accounts may have been pushing people to flee their homes during the conflict between these two countries, the researchers added.

The researchers also found more “pro Ukraine’ accounts than those that were “pro Russia”.

The paper titled “#IStandWithPutin versus #IStandWithUkraine: The interaction of bots and humans in discussion of the Russia/Ukraine war” was released on 20 August. 

The researchers studied 5.2 million posts on Twitter — tweets, retweets, quotes and replies to tweets — shared between 23 February and 8 March this year to understand how bot activity may influence online discussions around the Russia-Ukraine conflict and how bots may influence human emotions.

The studies posts contained hashtags like “StandWithPutin”, “(I)StandWithRussia”, “(I)SupportRussia”, “(I)StandWithUkraine”, “(I)StandWithZelenskyy” and “(I)SupportUkraine”.
Bot accounts were identified using Indiana University’s Botometer — a software which helps identify a bot account.

“We can say that between 60 per cent and 80 per cent of accounts tweeting the hashtags we studied during the first two weeks of the war were bots, as determined using the Botometer,” Joshua Watt, one of the researchers, told ThePrint.

According to Watt, it is not clear whether the bots were influencing people to flee Ukraine or Russia.
Watt added: “We cannot conclude where this is happening due to having no geographical information on the origin of accounts. All we can conclude is that the bot accounts are influencing more discussion surrounding moving/fleeing/going or staying in a country/location.”
​*More ‘pro Ukraine’ bot accounts *​
According to the researchers, 90.16 per cent of the accounts tweeting on the Russia-Ukraine war were “pro Ukraine” and only 6.80 per cent were “pro Russia”. “Balanced accounts” — those which showed mixed behaviour — comprised 3.04 per cent.

“The ‘ProRussia Not Bot’ account group has the largest outward information flows and significant flows to a range of other groups, having a positive information flow into both ‘ProUkraine’ and “Balanced” account groups, observed the researchers.

This means genuine pro-Russia users have the ability to influence more users on Twitter than genuine users who are pro-Ukraine. 

The researchers found “a spike in bots on March 2nd and 4th. The first spike aligns with Russia capturing Kherson (a town in Ukraine), but also when the #(I)StandWithPutin and #(I)StandWithRussia hashtags were trending.”

The research also found noon to 1:00 pm as “the most popular time to tweet in any timezone.

The most commonly-used bot type both by pro-Ukraine and pro-Russia sides is the “self-declared bots — accounts that are transparent about being bots — “suggesting that authorities have identified these bots to be most useful in a information warfare campaign”. Self-declared bot accounts have the word ‘bot’ either in the username or bio.
The research also found the pro-Ukraine side to be using more astroturf bots than the pro-Russian side. Astroturf bots are hyper-active, political bots, continuously following other accounts to increase follower count of that account and/or systematically deleting content from their own account.
​*How bots trigger emotion*​
The research studied the words that most commonly appear in the bot accounts to note that “self-declared bots drive more angst about governing bodies. From a pro-Russian perspective, this may be to cause more disruption in the West, and from a pro-Ukrainian perspective, this may be to cause more disruption in Russia”.

The research paper observed that the bots also trigger angst by using angst related words, a majority of which are “surrounding fear and worry”.

The researchers therefore argued that bots and automated accounts “combine to increase fear in the overall discussion of the Russia/Ukraine war”.

The bots also increase online discussion around motion, observed the research paper, by tweeting posts with words like “moving”, “go”, “going”, “leave”, which are potentially associated with staying or fleeing the country.

Combining this with increases in angst suggests that bots could be influencing people’s decisions surrounding whether to flee their homes or not, claimed the paper.

(Edited by Poulomi Banerjee)

https://theprint.in/tech/60-80-of-t...-bots-90-pro-ukraine-finds-new-study/1114878/


@Piotr

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## Paul2

Huge meeting engagement reportedly happening north-west of Kreminna right now. RUAF took whatever they had in the area, and threw it trying to preempt AUF strike.

South front: Ukraine has shifted the focus of the offensive to the Western flank this time. Did they anticipated RUAF throwing its reserves near the river?

We are up to a lot of news tomorrow.

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## MeFishToo

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578483397558554624


There are not even 10.000 at this showcase parade. And 70.000 would be like 5 percent of the entire chechnyan population. Just another pompous sham.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## patero

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Also Ukrainian review of Iranian made drone:
> 
> "They are primitive handmade product, its are not high-tech conveyor belt production. Like the [Turkish] Bayraktar or the Israeli [unmanned aerial vehicle]"


Maybe they need to install some of these:

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578501002130780160

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578475686247157760
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578474648630890497
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578470082304352256
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578457684684472321
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578470088088264704
> 
> 
> Chechens have very high birth rate, like rebels in Syria and Taliban in Afghanistan. And you now see. The advantage of very high birth rate.


Looks like ur prophesies are coming true , zelenskie knows what's coming ahead he already said defeat of Ukraine is start of ww3 which actually means he will move to Israel and let the world fights so their messiah comes sooner

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> why you want to absorb the blood ? to hide the bleeding ?
> when i face such patient the last thing i do is hiding the bleeding . instead it must be stopped with pressure till you can have access to a more permanent solution. and believe me tampoon is the last thing you want to use to stop bleeding
> 
> 
> hemostat is ideal ,but if you don't have that if your pain tolerance is good you can do some miracles with several gauze , at least it can keep you from dying of blood loss


The key word here is "sucking *CHEST* wound". Can you not already figure out by that already?

No? Okay, Blood will clot, and if this is a chest wound you want to drain the blood as soon as possible as well as stopping it otherwise it will accumulate in your chest, it will fill your lung with blood most likely and you will be choking on your own blood. 

And we are talking about tampon being a bad choice for such an occasion by the way, and we are making fun of the people who say Tampon can stop bleeding. In case you have not noticed.

Plus I think if you just use gauze, it will highly possible to developed tension pneumothorax



MeFishToo said:


> Ive watched some. Its grotesque and probably running 24/7, but still, anyone with common sense knows this is propaganda.The entire population must be in some state of apathy.


Well, lucky you.....

Yeah, they buy it like they are robot, but then when you look at how people were living in Russia, it wouldn't be surprised, State Apparatus has been in control of daily life since the beginning of Soviet Union, why won't you believe what the state tells you.

The newer generation because their love of technology, they usually follow trend like Youtube, Facebook, IG and all which allow them to receive alternative information, however, there are still a lot of people, young and old believe in the state, mostly the rural and poor, because they don't get access to the same thing people in the city access to.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578504166309130241

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578459464218599424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578436801752367104

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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> Weddings and other activities were targeted. So let's not pussy foot around. This is collateral damage—a war crime, my ***.
> The last 20 years have blurred the lines of what are and aren't war crimes. Unfortunately, it's left up to the belligerents to determine as it suits each's narrative.


To be very fair with you. US did directly or indirectly target civilian structure in Iraq and Afghanistan, but no where near the wholesale targeting like the Russian do in this war. 

Believe it or not, there are still rules of engagement in both Iraq and Afghanistan, but after seeing the destruction of Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, would you believe the Russian have theirs?

You don't need to feel sympathy toward the Ukrainian, that does not mean Russia did not just committing war crimes on the Ukrainian.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578508628364955648

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578526150996787201

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578508628364955648



With 16 new M777s on the way, practically all losses to date will be replaced.

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> To be very fair with you. US did directly or indirectly target civilian structure in Iraq and Afghanistan, but no where near the wholesale targeting like the Russian do in this war.
> 
> Believe it or not, there are still rules of engagement in both Iraq and Afghanistan, but after seeing the destruction of Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, would you believe the Russian have theirs?
> 
> You don't need to feel sympathy toward the Ukrainian, that does not mean Russia did not just committing war crimes on the Ukrainian.


This is why calling them Nazis not only accurate but actually saves time. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578426400091955201


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578505578107654144


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578464876510384128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578461963977314304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578434699352997888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578462672236183552


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578541166793932802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578524012552257537


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578504479116492800


F-22Raptor said:


> With 16 new M777s on the way, practically all losses to date will be replaced.



M777 is easy target for Mi-28NM and Ka-52M shturmoviks which shoot LMUR NLOS missiles.


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## Wood




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## aviator_fan

Deino said:


> Can you simply stop posting at all since stop posting BS is impossible to you!
> In fact, I really have no clue where so much non-sense and stupidity can grow but since you cannot off-load this BS at the SDF, it seems you misuse this forum to download yourtwisted reality!
> 
> Do us all a favour, and stop with this BS!


The guy is a moron, pls ignore him and he will crawl into his hole


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578525320394612736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578540329862430720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578524571497803776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578514547895201792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578506505237954560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578506726835294208


----------



## khansaheeb

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I never called Ukrainians Nazis and I bet you cannot find a single post I made that calls Ukrainian Nazis.


Well Ukraine does have an infestation of Nazis that needed to be denazified and Putin has done a good job. Where ever and when ever Nazis stick their head out and whatever form they appear they need to be eliminated quickly to stop the spread of the disease.









Ukraine war: World must act now to stop Russia nuclear threat - Zelensky


Ukraine's president tells the BBC "they are not ready to do it... But they begin to communicate".



www.bbc.com





Ukraine war: World must act now to stop Russia nuclear threat - Zelensky​

Published
6 hours ago

Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war

Media caption,
Watch: Zelensky warns Russians are being prepared for nuclear warfare
By Hugo Bachega and John Simpson
BBC News, Kyiv

*Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says Russian officials have begun to "prepare their society" for the possible use of nuclear weapons, but added he does not believe Russia is ready to use them.*
In an interview with the BBC, President Zelensky denied having urged strikes on Russia, claiming that an earlier remark had been mistranslated.
"You must use preventive kicks," he said, referring to sanctions, "not attacks".
In recent weeks, the Ukrainian army has recaptured large swathes of territory in a successful counter-offensive that has forced Russian troops to abandon long-held positions. In what Kyiv describes as Moscow's response to its defeats, President Vladimir Putin has incorporated four partially occupied regions of Ukraine.
The annexations, widely dismissed as illegal, have raised fears of a possible escalation in the seven-month war. President Putin and other senior Russian officials have suggested that nuclear weapons - possibly smaller, tactical weapons - could be used to defend those areas, although Western officials say there has been no evidence Moscow is prepared to do so.


Speaking in English at the president's office in Kyiv, President Zelensky said: "They begin to prepare their society. That's very dangerous.

"They are not ready to do it, to use it. But they begin to communicate. They don't know whether they'll use or not use it. I think it's dangerous to even speak about it."
Then, in Ukrainian, he said through a translator: "What we see is that Russia's people in power like life and thus I think the risk of using nuclear weapons is not that definite as some experts say, because they understand that there is no turning back after using it, not only the history of their country, but themselves as personalities."
However, he denied having called for strikes on Russia during an online event on Thursday, saying the Ukrainian word he had used had been misunderstood.
The initial comment was denounced by Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov as "an appeal to start yet another world war", while Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said it demonstrated why Russia was right to launch its operation in Ukraine.
"After that translation," President Zelensky said, "they [the Russians] did their way, how it's useful for them, and began to retranslate it in other directions."
The interview happened hours after US President Joe Biden said that the Russian threat to use nuclear weapons had brought the world closer to "Armageddon" than at any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis during the Cold War.

President Zelensky said action was needed now, as Russia's threats were a "risk for the whole planet". Moscow, he claimed, had "made a step already" by occupying the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, Europe's largest nuclear station which President Putin is trying to turn into Russian property.
Around 500 Russian troops were at the plant, he said, although the Ukrainian staff still operate it.
"The world can stop urgently the actions of Russian occupiers," President Zelensky said. "The world can implement the sanction package in such cases and do everything to make them leave the nuclear power plant."









Empowered by sophisticated Western-supplied weapons, the Ukrainian army has made significant advances in the east and the south, reclaiming towns and villages even in areas the Kremlin claims are now part of Russia.
President Zelensky said Russian forces were putting up a "good enough fight", but that Ukraine had received weapons - "I won't say we have enough now" - and soldiers were motivated to push forward.
The Russian military's setbacks, a major embarrassment for President Putin, have sparked unusual criticism of the country's military.

Amid the losses, President Putin announced the mobilisation of hundreds of thousands of reservists, which led to rare anti-war protests in Russia and to a huge exodus of military-age men.
President Zelensky urged Russians to "fight for your body, rights and soul", saying: "Those mobilised kids now, they come with nothing. Without guns or armour. They are being thrown here like cannon fodder... If they want to be kebabs - fine, let them come. But if they are people after all and think that this is their lives, they have to fight.
"Everything Putin is afraid of, and it's not the nuclear hit, he is afraid of his community," he said. He's afraid of his people. Because only those people are capable of replacing him nowadays. Take away his power. Give it to someone else."
Asked whether President Putin could survive in an eventual Ukrainian win in the war, he said: "I don't care."

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578508109085282304

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## KAL-EL

Inception-06 said:


> Is that yours and what does it mean ? Do yYou believe the Dracula story?



Yes the ring is in my possession. It is one of the Rings worn by Dracula with his crest.

And I absolutely believe the story.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Paul2 said:


> Khesanh falls = Ukraine freeing up 8-10 brigades. It's pretty much an end game opener.
> 
> 10 more brigades with tanks, armour, and artillery open up a possibility for a full frontal onto Donbass, Crimea, or incursions into Russia, or Belarus.


The Khe Sanh battle was fought in 1968…

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Sun Tzu says war is won by 3 factors: ren li, wu li, cai li. Man power. Material power. Financial power. France beat England in Hundred Years War because this. England won early battles but didn't have advantage in ren li, wu li, cai li. Likewise, Ukraine won early battles but will lose the war because Ukraine lacks ren li, wu li, cai li.

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## 1ndy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Sun Tzu says war is won by 3 factors: ren li, wu li, cai li. Man power. Material power. Financial power. France beat England in Hundred Years War because this. England won early battles but didn't have advantage in ren li, wu li, cai li. Likewise, Ukraine won early battles but will lose the war because Ukraine lacks ren li, wu li, cai li.


Nao li is more important. 
-Sun Tzu's cousin.

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## 1ndy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578602329514774528
The Kerch bridge gone... 

Best news of the day.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578605934539993090

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## dbc

1ndy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578602329514774528
> The Kerch bridge gone...
> 
> Best news of the day.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578605934539993090




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578605334062473216

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## Deino

burining ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578592665129869312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578603308834779136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578595663126069248
.... and collapsed ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578599931363065857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578605269051125760

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578612047553925120
Wow the Kerch Bridge got completely destroyed

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578612047553925120
> Wow the Kerch Bridge got completely destroyed
> 
> View attachment 885544




Well, this is disastrous for the Russian war effort in the South.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578615310261051392
Putin and Russia are headed for a humiliating defeat in Ukraine

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## jhungary

Deino said:


> burining ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578592665129869312
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578603308834779136
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578595663126069248
> .... and collapsed ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578599931363065857
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578605269051125760


That's only 1000kg + warhead can do that. 
Either a bomb or a ballistic missile. even ATACMS wouldn't possibly taken out entire stretch of the bridge

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> That's only 1000kg + warhead can do that.
> Either a bomb or a ballistic missile. even ATACMS wouldn't possibly taken out entire stretch of the bridge



Planted explosives on the fuel train?

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Planted explosives on the fuel train?


It could be, someone plant a 1000kg bomb on a train or even a car and leave it on the side or simply an IED.

But I suspect something I heard as a rumor back when Ukrainian uses Neptune Missile to take out Moskva, LM or Ratheon or some contractor may be working with Ukrainian to rewire their missile for Precision strike. I mean normally it wouldn't make sense for a Ballistic Missile like Neptune to be this accurate and hit the precise location of a ship that will blew up like USS Alabama. I had discarded this as rumor before but then they somehow manage to wire HARM on Mig-29. And this? You can't hit a bridge with conventionally guided Ballistic Missile, and precision guided missile are too soft to be able to take out an entire chunk on that. The logical conclusion is someone has been working on Ukrainian Ballistic Missile.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> as I said as Europe have no power to protect their companies and is a slave to USA whims , and as we don't care about empty promises and papers and agreement that have no effects .
> we care not about it , when USA come on board with agreement then call us as agreement with you guys even don't worth the paper its written on .
> you guys simply don't have spine to protect yourself and interesting part we are not the one seeking an agreement , its you guys who crave it


You seems to have forget the reason for this discussion.
Europe is meeting the commitments of the JPCOA.
Iran has signed away their right to develop nuclear arms with the NPT.
The right to retreat from the NPT basically requires that someone threatens Iran with a first strike with nuclear weapons. Threatening a strike if Iran violates the NPT is no cause to retreat from the treaty. Simply avoiding violating the treaty is the reasonable action.
The JPCOA states that enrichment of up to 3,67% is OK. Iran employing 10s of thousands of centrifuges to enrich above 20% is a clear indication of a weapons program. A single toy reactor (5 MW) does not change that.
The US supplied a nuclear reactor to Iran (the toy reactor) thus meeting its obligation to share nuclear technology for civilian purposes.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578620090265673729

This will take months to repair, at minimum

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> The key word here is "sucking *CHEST* wound". Can you not already figure out by that already?
> 
> No? Okay, Blood will clot, and if this is a chest wound you want to drain the blood as soon as possible as well as stopping it otherwise it will accumulate in your chest, it will fill your lung with blood most likely and you will be choking on your own blood.
> 
> And we are talking about tampon being a bad choice for such an occasion by the way, and we are making fun of the people who say Tampon can stop bleeding. In case you have not noticed.
> 
> Plus I think if you just use gauze, it will highly possible to developed tension pneumothorax


to be honnest no you don't want to do that . if you have a sucking chest wound probably your problem is about a pneumothorax not Hemothorax and you want to put a gauze (preferably stained with some oil or cream in middle of the layers) on the wound and fix it on 3 side so the air can leave and not enter back . each side of chest can be filled up to more than 3 liter of blood , if you have a heemothorax , if the bleeding is slow then really you don't want to mess with it , just cover it ad reach some place were they can provide adequate treatment . on other side if the bleeding is massive (blood drainage >1,500 mL after closed thoracostomy and continuous bleeding at 200 mL/hr for at least four hours.) then you are fucked after if you don't have access with proper medical facility i suggest instead of using the tampon to drain the blood , just use it to write your last will , or a latter to the ones you love . no matter what you do , you can't stop the bleeding in the field or even an emergency room . you must go to the surgery room , your chest be opened and surgeon find the site of the bleeding and fix it. by what i see in that kit they put something which is useless instead of something that can save you as in a chest wound its pneumo thorax that is immediate threat not hemothorax and by the way sucking wound is not the most immediate threat , in case of tension pneumothorax (the worst thing that can happen) if we didn't have access to anything else we used to make sucking wound to reduce the pressure in the chest


about using gauze and tension pneumothorax in open chest wounds. the key is how to use it , if you fix it on 4 side of the gauze , then yes it result in tension pneumothorax but if you fix it on 3 side and leave it open on one side then it let air leave when the pressure rise but prevent the air enter into the chest at other time and its actually the recommended treatment until you have access to a facility that they can put a chest tube there .
its called Three Sided Occlusive Dressing


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Yap, all the goodies of 1st tank army. They hugely lost personnel, and seemingly been burdened by excess hardware - they been running 2 man tank crews, and APCs/IFVs without dedicated commanders.


You follow Ukrainian Telegram channel, right?

There are call from several Ukrainian to name a newly formed Brigade "1st Guard Tank Brigde" seeing they were armed with 1st Guard Tank Army armor......



Hack-Hook said:


> to be honnest no you don't want to do that . if you have a sucking chest wound probably your problem is about a pneumothorax not Hemothorax and you want to put a gauze (preferably stained with some oil or cream in middle of the layers) on the wound and fix it on 3 side so the air can leave and not enter back . each side of chest can be filled up to more than 3 liter of blood , if you have a heemothorax , if the bleeding is slow then really you don't want to mess with it , just cover it ad reach some place were they can provide adequate treatment . on other side if the bleeding is massive (blood drainage >1,500 mL after closed thoracostomy and continuous bleeding at 200 mL/hr for at least four hours.) then you are fucked after if you don't have access with proper medical facility i suggest instead of using the tampon to drain the blood , just use it to write your last will , or a latter to the ones you love . no matter what you do , you can't stop the bleeding in the field or even an emergency room . you must go to the surgery room , your chest be opened and surgeon find the site of the bleeding and fix it. by what i see in that kit they put something which is useless instead of something that can save you as in a chest wound its pneumo thorax that is immediate threat not hemothorax and by the way sucking wound is not the most immediate threat , in case of tension pneumothorax (the worst thing that can happen) if we didn't have access to anything else we used to make sucking wound to reduce the pressure in the chest
> 
> 
> about using gauze and tension pneumothorax in open chest wounds. the key is how to use it , if you fix it on 4 side of the gauze , then yes it result in tension pneumothorax but if you fix it on 3 side and leave it open on one side then it let air leave when the pressure rise but prevent the air enter into the chest at other time and its actually the recommended treatment until you have access to a facility that they can put a chest tube there .
> its called Three Sided Occlusive Dressing


I am not a doctor, I did some basic combat medic thing (It' was a 2 weeks course), a doctor may treat a wound differently, Because they are the one to patch it. As a combat medic, their job is keeping that guy alive so the doctor can treat him. 

And in this case, what I was taught is if you don't drain a sucking chest wound, that guy will probably die right then and there because he will drown on his own blood..

A doctor may have different way to do that. I wouldn't know about it.

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## F-22Raptor



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## Reashot Xigwin

Everyone in Ukraine right now

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## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> Majority of British did blindly followed their govt and killed millions of people throughout Asia and Africa just like how Hitler Germans followed their leader.
> 
> But why Churchill praised and Hitler condemned? Because victors write the history
> 
> Germans created a militancy group called free Indian army.
> 
> I imagine of British had lost and Indian freed up through that mechanism we would have been talking about British atrocities today.
> 
> Noone talks about how millions were killed by French in Algeria for same reason
> 
> Sure Russia is dictatorship, you don't expect more then a single channel but I doubt even without that Russians would have still supported a war seeing what was happening to minsk agreement and ukriane inflexibility in Russian speaking areas
> 
> We are seeing lack of freedom in Ukraine too.
> 
> The just solution is to let people decide as musk put it out on Twitter but west and probably even Russia won't agree to that


Someone that cannot see the difference between extermination camps and deaths from starvation needs a head exam.
The British clearly prioritized food to other places but also made some unsuccessful efforts to remedy the situation. It was not a goal in itself to exterminate Indians, unlike the German goal to exterminate the Jews.

If Ukraine had a vote on whether they should fight a war against Russia or keep their borders from the time of the Ukraine SSR the result is obvious.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578628550378213383


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## A.P. Richelieu

PakFactor said:


> Weddings and other activities were targeted. So let's not pussy foot around. This is collateral damage—a war crime, my ***.
> The last 20 years have blurred the lines of what are and aren't war crimes. Unfortunately, it's left up to the belligerents to determine as it suits each's narrative.


What you don’t get, or refuse to acknowledge is that what determines if a war crime is commited or not, is not the presence of civilians, but the military value of a target.
If a wedding is attended by a number of military commanders, it is a valid military target.

War crimes are not about facts on the ground.
They are about

Intent
information
It is not illegal to ”attack a target without a military value”.
It is not illegal to ”kill civilians”
It is illegal to ”attack a target which you believe have no military value”.

Before you make an attack which may cause civilian casualties You must evaluate the value of the military in the target vs the number of civilian casualties.

The Western armies have lawyers that expect to be consulted. Drone attacks needs approvals by lawyers. Their decisions will be based on the reliability of the information source. If an attack turns out to be based on faulty information, that source will have its reliability downgraded.

I seriously doubt that Russians have the same system. If they simply mass bombard cities, it is not collateral damage (which requires an evaluation). It is simply dereliction of duty and a war crime.

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## Reashot Xigwin

A.P. Richelieu said:


> What you don’t get, or refuse to acknowledge is that what determines if a war crime is committed or not, is not the presence of civilians, but the military value of a target.
> If a wedding is attended by a number of military commanders, it is a valid military target.
> 
> War crimes are not about facts on the ground.
> They are about
> 
> Intent
> information
> It is not illegal to ”attack a target without a military value”.
> It is not illegal to ”kill civilians”
> It is illegal to ”attack a target which you believe have no military value”.
> 
> Before you make an attack which may cause civilian casualties You must evaluate the value of the military in the target vs the number of civilian casualties.
> 
> The Western armies have lawyers that expect to be consulted. Drone attacks needs approvals by lawyers. Their decisions will be based on the reliability of the information source. If an attack turns out to be based on faulty information, that source will have its reliability downgraded.
> 
> I seriously doubt that Russians have the same system. If they simply mass bombard cities, it is not collateral damage (which requires an evaluation). It is simply dereliction of duty and a war crime.


Just like In Syria Putin will just say all the people he killed were all terrorists.

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## Broccoli

Russian troubles are mounting and Zelensky said this was an just beginning. 

ATACMS?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578636594764189697

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## Moriro

Russian are almost fked, its good to see at least one tyrant of the world being decisively humiliated but then as the western doctrine says the balance of the world should be maintained, may be E.U along with ukraine+poland might replace their position of as world powers.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The moment of explo maybe can't confirm if it's real

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578633277895626752


Moriro said:


> Russian are almost fked, its good to see at least one tyrant of the world being decisively humiliated but then as the western doctrine says the balance of the world should be maintained, may be E.U along with ukraine+poland might replace their position of as world powers.


The French:
"Am I a joke to you? "

The after photo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578638564568760320


----------



## Moriro

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The moment of explo maybe can't confirm if it's real
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578633277895626752
> 
> The French:
> "Am I a joke to you? "
> 
> The after photo
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578638564568760320


French don't have much to cheer about , they are just contributors , don't have that ingredient to be considered as a world dominator today.


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Europe is meeting the comittments of the JPCOA.


no its not meeting the commitment , the commitment was removal of sanction , and assistance of rebuilding arak research reactor , *after usa left the sanction returned* , Europe told us they use their law to make the sanction ineffective , they failed to do that . it can't be explained as simple as that without removal of those sanctions there is no JCPOA


A.P. Richelieu said:


> ran has signed away their right to develop nuclear arms with the NPT.


and iran didn't developed , those particles that were found on iranian equipment and started it came from Pakistan use those equipment to make bombs and its proven and reported by IAEA. the only thing you found on iran was that for testing the IR-1 centrifuge some scientists injected them with gases in only one cascade before 180 day requirement to inform IAEA


A.P. Richelieu said:


> The right to retreat from the NPT basically requires that someone threatens Iran with a first strike with nuclear weapons. Threatening a strike if Iran violates the NPT is no cause to retreat from the treaty. Simply avoiding violating the treaty is the reasonable action.


no stux.net , scientist assassination by leaked IAEA data and sabotage of our facility is enough also all option on the table of all USA president since George Bush is the Icing on top of the cake, pretty much serious threat and two other country in middle east being nuclear armed and on already threatened Iran with nukes is a good appetizer 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> The JPCOA states that enrichment of up to 3,67% is OK. Iran employing 10s of thousands of centrifuges to enrich above 20% is a clear indication of a weapons program. A single toy reactor (5 MW) does not change that.


first that toy reactor is given to us by usa so go complain to them . also you fail to differentiate between a research reactor with a reactor designed for producing energy . so go learn about them and then talk about toy reactor. and blame yourself , we were buying fuel for it , you guys prevented producer of that type of fuel to provide it to us under the threat of sanction , so we built that fuel ourselves and now you can suck it up , the genie is out of the bottle . and that 10s of thousands of centrifuge is only less than 1000 centrifuge of IR-1 variant so done make lies about it. as always in this matter you must also blame your thoughtless politician that are swayed easily left and right by lobbies instead of thinking about consequence of their actions


A.P. Richelieu said:


> The US supplied a nuclear reactor to Iran (the toy reactor) thus meeting its obligation to share nuclear technology for civilian purposes.


and then prevent the fuel for it to reach Iran thus failed its obligation to share nuclear technology for civilian use


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The moment of explo maybe can't confirm if it's real
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578633277895626752
> 
> The French:
> "Am I a joke to you? "
> 
> The after photo
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578638564568760320


That’s a huge explosion. The bridge is damaged. will take weeks or months to repair.
The russians in the Crimea are trapped.














__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578605499838128129

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> I am not a doctor, I did some basic combat medic thing (It' was a 2 weeks course), a doctor may treat a wound differently, Because they are the one to patch it. As a combat medic, their job is keeping that guy alive so the doctor can treat him.
> 
> And in this case, what I was taught is if you don't drain a sucking chest wound, that guy will probably die right then and there because he will drown on his own blood..
> 
> A doctor may have different way to do that. I wouldn't know about it.


as an emergency medicine doctor I assure you first a tampon cant drain the massive hemorrhagic incident inside the chest . and the only thing that can save that patient is surgery and that must be done very fast as it mean there is hemorrhagy from some arteries and normal person chest volume is 1.5-2 liter on each side , that's more than 25% of the person blood the problem is as its an open wound it won't be limited to that and it continue to bleed until the guy loss all the blood , so only thing that save him is surgery .
but if like majority of times the wound only damage lungs and some very small vessels , you don't have massive hemorrhage but you will have air leak , in that case the leak can accumulate inside the chest and cause tension pneumothorax as the wound act as a valve . the way i told the wound must be dressed will prevent that and save the life. 
if the hemorrhagy is not massive , just send the patient to a hospital don't waste your time by draining the blood it really achieve nothing, you can use that time to look at another injured person, when he reach hospital they put a chest tube there and it drain the blood . draining the blood only reduce the risk in infection later and that's not your concern at the battlefield as it happen after 24 - 48 hour and the person no matter what must receive broad spectrum antibiotics for such wound to chest

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## Viet

Moriro said:


> Russian are almost fked, its good to see at least one tyrant of the world being decisively humiliated but then as the western doctrine says the balance of the world should be maintained, may be E.U along with ukraine+poland might replace their position of as world powers.


The world will be bipolar, not multipolar as a dumb ex spy wished for. Russia is finished. Military, economy, diplomatic standing, living standard, everything. Putin destroys Russia in a matter of months. The US is strengthened. On the other side that is China.

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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> The world will be bipolar, not multipolar as a dumb ex spy wished for. Russia is finished. Military, economy, diplomatic standing, living standard, everything. Putin destroys Russia in a matter of months. The US is strengthened. On the other side that is China.


Russia is finished in everything but nuclear weapons power.

And that's a very dangerous scenario.


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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> Russia is finished in everything but nuclear weapons power.
> 
> And that's a very dangerous scenario.


you can’t eat nuclear bombs. Russia will become a bigger version of North Korea. Europe will build a giant military fence to Russia, if not already happening, plus a giant missile shield.

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578612047553925120
> Wow the Kerch Bridge got completely destroyed
> 
> View attachment 885544




Wow , 

I was wondering about that , ever since they destroyed the Crimea airfield . . . 


~
​


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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> you can’t eat nuclear bombs. Russia will become a bigger version of North Korea.


You're right and NK is a dangerous state too, that does nuclear blackmail everytime they need food.

Russia doing Nuclear Blackmail will be a lot more horrific than NK.

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## Vergennes

BHAN85 said:


> Russia is finished in everything but nuclear weapons power.
> 
> And that's a very dangerous scenario.



LMAO,seriously Russians would be the first ones to use nuclear weapons in a war of agression just because they are losing territories that aren't theirs in the first place.... In case of use not only the US would level them and their army in Ukraine + Russia would become a pariah state even worse than north korea,not even the Chinese would side with them.

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## Moriro

Viet said:


> The world will be bipolar, not multipolar as a dumb ex spy wished for. Russia is finished. Military, economy, diplomatic standing, living standard, everything. Putin destroys Russia in a matter of months. The US is strengthened. On the other side that is China.


What i see after this the europe might opt for self reliance instead of relying on alliance, self reliance itself brings the chance of altering the the vary philosophy of alliance hence if not multipolar but a tripolar with a completely independent E.U will be better option then having war mongering russian bloc have any power to say in world matters.


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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> You're right and NK is a dangerous state too, that does nuclear blackmail everytime they need food.
> 
> Russia doing Nuclear Blackmail will be a lot more horrific than NK.


It can happen. famine in Russia is not rare. Millions of deaths under Zar regimes, under Stalin terror.


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## HorusRa

Amazing news to wake up to.

Slava Ukaini!

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> as an emergency medicine doctor I assure you first a tampon cant drain the massive hemorrhagic incident inside the chest.



Dude, you need to re-read our comment, we made a joke because Russian military asked the medic to get as many tampon as possible.

That's what the joke is, you can't drain or plug the wound with Tampon. 



Hack-Hook said:


> and the only thing that can save that patient is surgery and that must be done very fast as it mean there is hemorrhagy from some arteries and normal person chest volume is 1.5-2 liter on each side , that's more than 25% of the person blood the problem is as its an open wound it won't be limited to that and it continue to bleed until the guy loss all the blood , so only thing that save him is surgery .



I am sure that is the case, as I said, I am not a doctor, I wouldn't know. 

As I said, in the field, medic jobs is to keep the guy alive, he is not there to operate on him, and for me, I wasn't even a 68W, I would not have known shit about how to stabilise him. That's what I was told to drain the wound so people can see and it will not obstruct the ABC, and if you have a problem with that, I am gladly send you the email address of US Army Medical Command to have them consult with you on the Combat Livesafer Course curriculum.



Hack-Hook said:


> but if like majority of times the wound only damage lungs and some very small vessels , you don't have massive hemorrhage but you will have air leak , in that case the leak can accumulate inside the chest and cause tension pneumothorax as the wound act as a valve . the way i told the wound must be dressed will prevent that and save the life.
> if the hemorrhagy is not massive , just send the patient to a hospital don't waste your time by draining the blood it really achieve nothing, you can use that time to look at another injured person, when he reach hospital they put a chest tube there and it drain the blood . draining the blood only reduce the risk in infection later and that's not your concern at the battlefield as it happen after 24 - 48 hour and the person no matter what must receive broad spectrum antibiotics for such wound to chest


Dude, you are taking an off hand joke between me and @Reashot Xigwin way too seriously...

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## sammuel

jhungary said:


> That's only 1000kg + warhead can do that.
> Either a bomb or a ballistic missile. even ATACMS wouldn't possibly taken out entire stretch of the bridge



Also well coordinated , how did they manage to take out the train at the exact time and location ?


~

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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> That’s a huge explosion. The bridge is damaged. will take weeks or months to repair.
> The russians in the Crimea are trapped.
> 
> 
> View attachment 885579
> 
> 
> View attachment 885580
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578605499838128129





Viet said:


> That’s a huge explosion. The bridge is damaged. will take weeks or months to repair.
> The russians in the Crimea are trapped.
> 
> 
> View attachment 885579
> 
> 
> View attachment 885580
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578605499838128129



Zelensky should allow (Putin's) Kerch Bridge to only exist as long as Russian troops are retreating, if they try to use it for supply logistics into Crimea then destroy it. Ukraine have shown they now have missiles with range to do this. Putin's Black Sea fleet and Aircraft based in Crimea are already inactive and/or targeted.


----------



## Viet

Moriro said:


> What i see after this the europe might opt for self reliance instead of relying on alliance, self reliance itself brings the chance of altering the the vary philosophy of alliance hence if not multipolar but a tripolar with a completely independent E.U will be better option then having war mongering russian bloc have any power to say in world matters.


EU can’t defend against Russia nuclear blackmail.



kingQamaR said:


> Zelensky should allow (Putin's) Kerch Bridge to only exist as long as Russian troops are retreating, if they try to use it for supply logistics into Crimea then destroy it. Ukraine have shown they now have missiles with range to do this. Putin's Black Sea fleet and Aircraft based in Crimea are already inactive and/or targeted.


Ukraine does it. It allows Russian troops withdrawal from Lyman thru one single exit road. Will be the same for Kherson. as for Crimea, I think Ukraine will let Russians escape via sea route.


----------



## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> EU can’t defend against Russia nuclear blackmail.
> 
> 
> Ukraine does it. It allows Russian troops withdrawal from Lyman thru one single exit road. Will be the same for Kherson. as for Crimea, I think Ukraine will let Russians escape via sea route.



I think they want Russia to send weapons to crimea via that bridge rather than through Ukraine as Ukraine can close it off from 2 places and trap everything inside crimea


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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> I think they want Russia to send weapons to crimea via that bridge rather than through Ukraine as Ukraine can close it off from 2 places and trap everything inside crimea


Letting the Crimea bridge intact? No, that makes military perspective no sense. The goal must be destroying everything that supports the invasion army, only let one escape route for them to flee.

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## Paul2

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Khe Sanh battle was fought in 1968…



Freudian slip...

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## jhungary

sammuel said:


> Also well coordinated , how did they manage to take out the train at the exact time and location ?
> 
> 
> ~


That points to controlled IED, either the IED is next to/under the train and someone remote det the IED when it was on the IED, or the Train itself is an IED. 

Bear in mind that train is now blocking the rail bridge and depends on how quickly they can remove that and fix the rail, that bridge is completely blocked before that happened.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> no its not meeting the commitment , the commitment was removal of sanction , and assistance of rebuilding arak research reactor , *after usa left the sanction returned* , Europe told us they use their law to make the sanction ineffective , they failed to do that . it can't be explained as simple as that without removal of those sanctions there is no JCPOA



The sanctions agreed to be removed in JPCOA are removed.



Hack-Hook said:


> and iran didn't developed , those particles that were found on iranian equipment and started it came from Pakistan use those equipment to make bombs and its proven and reported by IAEA. the only thing you found on iran was that for testing the IR-1 centrifuge some scientists injected them with gases in only one cascade before 180 day requirement to inform IAEA
> 
> no stux.net , scientist assassination by leaked IAEA data and sabotage of our facility is enough also all option on the table of all USA president since George Bush is the Icing on top of the cake, pretty much serious threat and two other country in middle east being nuclear armed and on already threatened Iran with nukes is a good appetizer


No, that is not enough according to the NPT.
And Israel did not threaten explicitly with nuclear weapons. 
Israel stated that if Iran attacked Israel with nuclear weapons, they had the means to respond. Not enough to leave the NPT.



Hack-Hook said:


> first that toy reactor is given to us by usa so go complain to them . also you fail to differentiate between a research reactor with a reactor designed for producing energy . so go learn about them and then talk about toy reactor. and blame yourself , we were buying fuel for it , you guys prevented producer of that type of fuel to provide it to us under the threat of sanction , so we built that fuel ourselves and now you can suck it up , the genie is out of the bottle . and that 10s of thousands of centrifuge is only less than 1000 centrifuge of IR-1 variant so done make lies about it. as always in this matter you must also blame your thoughtless politician that are swayed easily left and right by lobbies instead of thinking about consequence of their actions



You can buy from Russia, your support for their war crimes should make you popular there.


Hack-Hook said:


> and then prevent the fuel for it to reach Iran thus failed its obligation to share nuclear technology for civilian use



Fuel is not technology.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

The Russian soldiers inside their natural habitat among their species. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578277975551668225
And the end of the life cycle of the Russian soldier: (Trigger warning dead body) 

Not for the faint of heart

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## A.P. Richelieu

jhungary said:


> That points to controlled IED, either the IED is next to/under the train and someone remote det the IED when it was on the IED, or the Train itself is an IED.
> 
> Bear in mind that train is now blocking the rail bridge and depends on how quickly they can remove that and fix the rail, that bridge is completely blocked before that happened.



I would trigger a bomb like that using GPS control.
A hidden mobile phone with an app that detected when you are at a certain location and then it would trigger the bomb using some low power RF.


----------



## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The Russian soldiers inside their natural habitat among their species.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578277975551668225
> And the end of the life cycle of the Russian soldier: (Trigger warning dead body)
> 
> Not for the faint of heart


That's very suiting, As the Russian Armed Force certainly treat them like pig....



A.P. Richelieu said:


> I would trigger a bomb like that using GPS control.
> A hidden mobile phone with an app that detected when you are at a certain location and then it would trigger the bomb using some low power RF.


That sound about right. 

The thing is, damage this big, it is NOT a small device. I mean it will be sticking out like a sore thumb and unless the Russian is that inept not to pick up an IED on the side of the road or on the rail bridge, I don't really believe it is a IED job. 

I would say either a Ballistic Missile or a Suicide VBIED.

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## sammuel

~


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578651660653629440


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The sanctions agreed to be removed in JPCOA are removed.


reinstated after USA left the deal. so no they are not removed , EU promised they make them ineffective , they failed that's all we care


A.P. Richelieu said:


> No, that is not enough according to the NPT.
> And Israel did not threaten explicitly with nuclear weapons.
> Israel stated that if Iran attacked Israel with nuclear weapons, they had the means to respond. Not enough to leave the NPT.


the famous or better say Infamous "All the options is on the Table" and in fact that the classified information given to IAEA was used to assassinate Iranian scientists and the sabotage against Iranian facilities is enough reason to leave if we decide on it.
make any complain go make it to the persons that taught those are wise moves


A.P. Richelieu said:


> You can buy from Russia, your support for their war crimes should make you popular there.


sadly in those times Russia was not at the war with Ukraine and there is small technical problem that they don't produce that type of fuel as you can see the design is somehow non-conventional and sort of band-aid to make the reactor that was designed to work with 91% enriched uranium be able to use a lot less enriched one that can't be used in nukes hence the 20% enriched uranium fuels that I'm aware of 3 country produce them, Argentina, Japan and Iran . so if you don't like it we always can return the reactor to its original sate and use 90+% fuel rods and then go and buy it from Russia , your decision . i wonder what the fuss about it , when we convert 20% uranium gas into the 20% uranium metal it effectively remove it from the process of producing bomb and can only be used as fuel in that type of reactors 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Fuel is not technology.


yay you give technology but not the means to use that technology . wonder whats the use of a nuclear reactor without fuel , you guys rationality sometimes become so irrational that I don't knew what to say


----------



## HorusRa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578659441159057408

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> That points to controlled IED, either the IED is next to/under the train and someone remote det the IED when it was on the IED, or the Train itself is an IED.
> 
> Bear in mind that train is now blocking the rail bridge and depends on how quickly they can remove that and fix the rail, that bridge is completely blocked before that happened.


wonder as that bridge is so important for Russia war effort , is it not more rational and easier you put the bomb on the train and rig it to detonate at a certain coordinate ?

at least if it was me i'd inspected the bridge regularly but I can't say how Russia would do it as they made so much decision in last 6-7 month that let say i consider them questionable



Bua said:


> Bro if you don't mind can you please have discussion about Iranian sanctions to some other thread ?


ask that from a certain person that started it .



Bua said:


> Bro if you don't mind can you please have discussion about Iranian sanctions to some other thread ?


ask that from a certain person that started it .

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## aziqbal

Looks like a truck Bomb which took out Kerch bridge

And also it was timed to go off next to a oil transport cargo train on the rail line

So they managed to not only take out the road but also the train Line

This is called intelligence and making most out of the attack


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578607087864553472

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## Hack-Hook

aziqbal said:


> Looks like a truck Bomb which took out Kerch bridge
> 
> And also it was timed to go off next to a oil transport cargo train on the rail line
> 
> So they managed to not only take out the road but also the train Line
> 
> This is called intelligence and making most out of the attack
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578607087864553472


the road damage is due to the explosion on the rail road and there is no sign of damage to the road or truck explosion
by the way if the damage is only to that section and the column are not damaged i say a willing operator can fix it in one week instead of months that mentioned here , and the rail road faster , but first i must see the damage to the rail-road bridge, the video only show damage to the guards on both side of the bridge 


jhungary said:


> The thing is, damage this big, it is NOT a small device. I mean it will be sticking out like a sore thumb and unless the Russian is that inept not to pick up an IED on the side of the road or on the rail bridge, I don't really believe it is a IED job.
> 
> I would say either a Ballistic Missile or a Suicide VBIED.


I'm not a demolition expert but can't you make a 1kg GPS triggered bomb that magnetically attach itself to the fuel tanks just in the size of a cigarette box and that will be enough to detonate one or two fuel tanks and the fuel in the tanks do the rest of the damage ?


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## alimobin memon

Hack-Hook said:


> the road damage is due to the explosion on the rail road and there is no sign of damage to the road or truck explosion
> by the way if the damage is only to that section and the column are not damaged i say a willing operator can fix it in one week instead of months that mentioned here , and the rail road faster , but first i must see the damage to the rail-road bridge
> 
> I'm not a demolition expert but can't you make a 1kg GPS triggered bomb that magnetically attach itself to the fuel tanks just in the size of a cigarette box and that will be enough to detonate one or two fuel tanks and the fuel in the tanks do the rest of the damage ?


It will be repaired soon. Then russians also have amphibious capacity? Or am I wrong abt that ?


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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> That's very suiting, As the Russian Armed Force certainly treat them like pig....
> 
> 
> That sound about right.
> 
> The thing is, damage this big, it is NOT a small device. I mean it will be sticking out like a sore thumb and unless the Russian is that inept not to pick up an IED on the side of the road or on the rail bridge, I don't really believe it is a IED job.
> 
> I would say either a Ballistic Missile or a Suicide VBIED.


& Now it's open season for the hogs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578664238075334656


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## sammuel

HorusRa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578659441159057408




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578662105636823041
~

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## Hack-Hook

alimobin memon said:


> It will be repaired soon. Then russians also have amphibious capacity? Or am I wrong abt that ?


the amphibious transport only can help you to an extent , it cant replace pipeline or railroads capacities

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578620090265673729
> 
> This will take months to repair, at minimum



Hitting the bridge at that distance in a precision strike is one thing !!! Hitting a FUEL TRAIN at the same train is another thing.

This must be a UAV "co-ordinated" strike with something else..

And it is the "mother of all surgical strikes" in the Ukraine war so far. This is going to hurt Russia esp now we are heading into winter. Looks like Ukraine could have done this strike at any time but chose to wait until now for _maximum strategic effect_ at this stage of the war..

( and it is really good news to wake up go aswell !!!!!! ).

EDIT : Looks like a Drone Ship took at the roadway and the resulting explosion managed to take out the fuel truck as collateral "damage".

_Looks like 1 roadway and 1 rail line have been taken out of this war_ - it does look like one of the roadway is still standing juding by videos taken by people on the bridge after the strike but is it structurally sound enough to be used - looking at the pillars - i suspect it is not useable or safe to do so.

There is no way that rail line is going to be repaired anytime soon as that amount of heat would have caused very significant structural damage to the railway section that would mean that portion of the structure would have to be removed and then replaced entirely - under war time conditions.

I would not be suprised if you see a few more ship-drones take another shot at the bridge.

Fantastic birthday present for Putin ..


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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> the road damage is due to the explosion on the rail road and there is no sign of damage to the road or truck explosion
> by the way if the damage is only to that section and the column are not damaged i say a willing operator can fix it in one week instead of months that mentioned here , and the rail road faster



Really does not look like this can be fixed in a week :







As for the rail bridge , take into account they are working on a tight bridge and not on land , this makes it a lot more complicated.

~

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## Reashot Xigwin

This is read like a bad SNL skit

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577268082690908160


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## Hack-Hook

I say the rail road bridge is repairable and can be repaired very quickly my estimation is at most 2-3 day even less




only a little fire damage , just fix the guards , throw the burned wagon in water and pull the rest to the shore and fix the rails . its done the fire was on the bridge and the worst part of it was not in actual contact with bridge , and more importantly it was open fire and wind moved the heat away .

but about the road bridge that fall in the water , it clearly show some engineering defect otherwise why they must fall with the wave of the explosion







sammuel said:


> Really does not look like this can be fixed in a week :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the rail bridge , take into account they are working on a tight bridge and not on land , this makes it a lot more complicated.
> 
> ~


that is the road bridge and depend on how they want to fix it , they can always make a temporary metal bridge fix until the real fix become ready . but what is important is rail road bridge that seems to have received minimal damage
b the way just look at it it literally fall of from the explosion shock waves , you really wonder about the quality of Russian engineering these days , there is no visible damage to the bridge , who is gonna bet there are lots of pocket that get a lot fatten on building this bridge, oh and your photo showed one interesting matter , only half the road bridge fallen , they probably can use the other half in 5-6 day after properly inspecting it and strengthen if there is some structurally weakened areas


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## MeFishToo

Could the attack on the Crimian bridge signal a larger upcomming ukrainian attack in the south? I personally want to see Ukraine reclaim the Zaporizhzhia power plant, just to humiliate Putin.

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## Ali_Baba

Hack-Hook said:


> I say the rail road bridge is repairable and can be repaired very quickly my estimation is at most 2-3 day even less
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only a little fire damage , just fix the guards , throw the burned wagon in water and pull the rest to the shore and fix the rails . its done the fire was on the bridge and the worst part of it was not in actual contact with bridge , and more importantly it was open fire and wind moved the heat away .
> 
> but about the road bridge that fall in the water , it clearly show some engineering defect otherwise why they must fall with the wave of the explosion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is the road bridge and depend on how they want to fix it , they can always make a temporary metal bridge fix until the real fix become ready . but what is important is rail road bridge that seems to have received minimal damage
> b the way just look at it it literally fall of from the explosion shock waves , you really wonder about the quality of Russian engineering these days , there is no visible damage to the bridge , who is gonna bet there are lots of pocket that get a lot fatten on building this bridge, oh and your photo showed one interesting matter , only half the road bridge fallen , they probably can use the other half in 5-6 day after properly inspecting it and strengthen if there is some structurally weakened areas



NO WAY that rail line can be repaired with that amount of *heat damage*... The pictures you have posted contradict your very words almost as if you did not bother to look at the pictures themselves.

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## HorusRa

This is art. Belongs in a museum.

Meanwhile, world-wide stocks of copium must be depleting fast.

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## alimobin memon

Hack-Hook said:


> the amphibious transport only can help you to an extent , it cant replace pipeline or railroads capacities


But it is something. Its not like entire supply is off. Light arms and other equipment by air and water is possible.

Huge letdown. But its for sure surprising to us but top brass must be aware of this possibility in russia.


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## aziqbal

Wow how did Ukraine do this ?

cant be truck bomb because both sides of the bridge is RUUSIA ! 

cant be a sea drone as Ukraine has no access to Kerch Strait or Sea of Azov

cant be HIMAR not heavy enough 

cant be a ballistic missile as I doubt it has this kind of accuracy 

Ukraine took out Crimea Air Base, Moskva Cruiser and now Kerch bridge 

and it does it in a way that leaves alot of question as to how 

one guy told me Ukrainians were the brains of the Soviet Union, very resourceful people 

they are certainly proving that 

Slavi Ukrani!

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## Hack-Hook

Ali_Baba said:


> NO WAY that rail line can be repaired with that amount of *heat damage*... The pictures you have posted contradict you very words as if you did not bother to look at the pictures themselves.


won't be repaired the bridge is completely intact and show no damage , only damage to guards , to replace around 100m of damaged lines will only take several hours . its how we do it these days , Don't knew how Russian do it but even if they want to do it by hand it won\t take more than 1-2 day















the bridge didn\t recieved that much damage because the worst of the heat is actually above the fire not in fire itself , the heat go up and above the fire there was nothing . if the fire was under the bridge or if the bridge had two floor , then it was really damaging . its like you wnt to sink a steel hulled ship with napalm , israel once for 40min bombed a steel hulled ship with fire bombs and the ship stayed a float and when they offered help later the ship refused and sailed under its own power to a friendly port


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578684949732855810

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## Hack-Hook

HorusRa said:


> This is art. Belongs in a museum.
> 
> Meanwhile, world-wide stocks of copium must be depleting fast.


if you look more closely half the bridge is intact they can use that half

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## A.P. Richelieu

jhungary said:


> That's very suiting, As the Russian Armed Force certainly treat them like pig....
> 
> 
> That sound about right.
> 
> The thing is, damage this big, it is NOT a small device. I mean it will be sticking out like a sore thumb and unless the Russian is that inept not to pick up an IED on the side of the road or on the rail bridge, I don't really believe it is a IED job.
> 
> I would say either a Ballistic Missile or a Suicide VBIED.


I saw a comment from Russia that a lorry exploded on the bridge.

Blowing up a Russian Army lorry loaded with grenades for Kherson would do the trick. Russians supply the explosives, and you only need a minor bomb to cause a chain reaction.
If the Russian force Ukrainans into their Army, then sabotage is to be expected.


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I saw a comment from Russia that a lorry exploded on the bridge.
> 
> Blowing up a Russian Army lorry loaded with grenades for Kherson would do the trick. Russians supply the explosives, and you only need a minor bomb to cause a chain reaction.
> If the Russian force Ukrainans into their Army, then sabotage is to be expected.


interesting , the video of the incident also show a lorry there , what you guys think was inside that lorry that made that explosion





when it move to the monitor in control room it showed the train exploded later , probably first the fuel tanker get damaged and then the fuel com in contact with hot metal


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## kingQamaR

aziqbal said:


> Wow how did Ukraine do this ?
> 
> cant be truck bomb because both sides of the bridge is RUUSIA !
> 
> cant be a sea drone as Ukraine has no access to Kerch Strait or Sea of Azov
> 
> cant be HIMAR not heavy enough
> 
> cant be a ballistic missile as I doubt it has this kind of accuracy
> 
> Ukraine took out Crimea Air Base, Moskva Cruiser and now Kerch bridge
> 
> and it does it in a way that leaves alot of question as to how
> 
> one guy told me Ukrainians were the brains of the Soviet Union, very resourceful people
> 
> they are certainly proving that
> 
> Slavi Ukrani!



It looks as if they blew up the road bridge and the fuel train ignited from the explosion. Either they were extremely lucky or, more likely, they were watching and their timing was pretty near perfect. It also suggests that Ukrainian special forces penetrated Russian-controlled waters to set charges and were watching either from within Crimea or via a drone that Russian air defence failed to detect.

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## aziqbal

The thing is the bridge must be used to handling explosives in civilian trucks all the time as Russian logistics are terrible and transporting weapons is probably normal over the bridge since the war started

So question is did they just get it wrong ? Was it a suicide mission with the right papers for clearance ?

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## A.P. Richelieu

If the conclusion is that this was a sabotage through a hidden bomb in a lorry, then Russia needs to start to check each and every lorry that can carry explosives over the bridge. Such checks will significantly decrease the throughput of transports over the bridge.

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## Viet

alimobin memon said:


> It will be repaired soon. Then russians also have amphibious capacity? Or am I wrong abt that ?


That’s a rat race. Once they repair it. Kaaabooom. The repair troop coming. Kaaabooom.

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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> i say a willing operator can fix it in one week



P.S


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578647258975064064


~

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## aziqbal

The train was no coincidence 

This has the hall marks of a very thought out plan 


1 bomb 3 parts of the bridge destroyed 

And one of them was a elevated railway track

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## Inception-06

jhungary said:


> That points to controlled IED, either the IED is next to/under the train and someone remote det the IED when it was on the IED, or the Train itself is an IED.
> 
> Bear in mind that train is now blocking the rail bridge and depends on how quickly they can remove that and fix the rail, that bridge is completely blocked before that happened.



Impossible to fix that disaster, if they try it Ukraine will finde a way for a second shoot. Russians are dumped!


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## dBSPL

If civilian safety is not important, of course, army engineering capabilities can make this bridge usable for limited, convoy crossings. I do not have enough research on the army engineering possibilities of the Russian army, but I do not think that the army, which has one of the most important armored inventories in the world, is completely inadequate in this sense.

On the other side, high temperature causes brittleness in prestressed concrete blocks and rebars. Contrary to what is written here, a very fast result cannot be obtained on repair. Because the only thing that needs to be done is not rebuilding the bridge deck.

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## ziaulislam

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Someone that cannot see the difference between extermination camps and deaths from starvation needs a head exam.
> The British clearly prioritized food to other places but also made some unsuccessful efforts to remedy the situation. It was not a goal in itself to exterminate Indians, unlike the German goal to exterminate the Jews.
> 
> If Ukraine had a vote on whether they should fight a war against Russia or keep their borders from the time of the Ukraine SSR the result is obvious.


Agree all Europeans people need head exam
British did to some sects and racea may not be known to blue eye Europeans but it's well documented else where
Just visit France skull collection or British royal museum

There was no difference between Hitler or British atrocities..the only difference was one were Europeans and others were Indians/Africans.
My great grand mother head all sort of stories how pushtoon we're eliminated in current Pakistan..








Good luck to Ukraine

The east interest in war is as long as it end quickly and wheat and oil keep flowing..


Most of the eastern countries know this is only possible if Russia wins otherwise the war will be prolonged for no use.

Musk had the right idea

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## kingQamaR

aziqbal said:


> The train was no coincidence
> 
> This has the hall marks of a very thought out plan
> 
> 
> 1 bomb 3 parts of the bridge destroyed
> 
> And one of them was a elevated railway track



Luck wasn't in it. As you say either a line of sight, real time initiation or they knew the train times to the minute. Very well done, way deep into enemy territory and a dent in the G4 Ops.

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> P.S
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578647258975064064
> 
> 
> ~


that operator have such inflated ego that rather see all Russian army destroyed than part with that table . so i suggest you find some other type of material for the repair .



aziqbal said:


> The train was no coincidence
> 
> This has the hall marks of a very thought out plan
> 
> 
> 1 bomb 3 parts of the bridge destroyed
> 
> And one of them was a elevated railway track


railroad bridge is intact and had only some superficial damage . if it was me i'd have exploded the lorry on the side of the bridge that is closer to the rail-road bridge as it had more chance to damage that bridge



dBSPL said:


> If civilian safety is not important, of course, army engineering capabilities can make this bridge usable for limited, convoy crossings. I do not have enough research on the army engineering possibilities of the Russian army, but I do not think that the army, which has one of the most important armored inventories in the world, is completely inadequate in this sense.
> 
> On the other side, high temperature causes brittleness in prestressed concrete blocks and rebars. Contrary to what is written here, a very fast result cannot be obtained on repair. Because the only thing that needs to be done is not rebuilding the bridge deck.


consider it . half the bridge is intact so if they want to use it for limited convoy usage , they can just close the traffic on that half than use it for convoys


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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> Luck wasn't in it. As you say either a line of sight, real time initiation or they knew the train times to the minute. Very well done, way deep into enemy territory and a dent in the G4 Ops.


the damage is huge. The rail is damaged. The road is damaged. parts even fell into the sea. It seems an Ukraine special ops did that with explosive charges. Well done.

Birthday gift for Putin 70y.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> the damage is huge. The rail is damaged. The road is damaged, parts even fell into the sea. It seems an Ukraine special ops did that with explosive charges. Well done.


the important part was the rail road and that was not destroyed only a change of rails in that section . you think how long it will take ?
also half of the road is intact and military convoys can use that half if an inspection show its safe. also consider the fact that the column are completely intact and only 3 section of the road has fallen into the water , you think how long it take for Russia to build those 3 section of the bridge and then transport them to the damaged site ?
well i said a willing operator can fix it fast , the current record is 43h for a 1300 ton bridge and they had to also build the columns that keep the bridge in place and also destroy the old one


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## kingQamaR

Hack-Hook said:


> the important part was the rail road and that was not destroyed only a change of rails in that section . you think how long it will take ?
> also half of the road is intact and military convoys can use that half if an inspection show its safe. also consider the fact that the column are completely intact and only 3 section of the road has fallen into the water , you think how long it take for Russia to build those 3 section of the bridge and then transport them to the damaged site ?
> well i said a willing operator can fix it fast , the current record is 43h for a 1300 ton bridge and they had to also build the columns that keep the bridge in place and also destroy the old one



For the trolls who are saying it's "hardly destroyed" there are a few videos doing the rounds showing one carriageway of the road deck under water, the other carriageway looks to have multiple cracks. The rail bridge has been blazing for almost 4 hours now.


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## zartosht

Russia has finally entered the next phase of its war. 

200-300k fresh troops will be injected. While even western media has reported that ukraines gone thru its regulars loong ago and is throwing any ukie it picks up on the street at gunpoint jnto the meat grinder

Russia is patiently organizing is forces for a massive attack that will break ukie necks. When only 90k Russian mobolized, it was easy for the ukies to mass forces against them, limit thinning out their forces , and predicting Russian movements. 

Now the exhausted ukies will face a massive wave from many different fronts that will absolutely overwhelm and crush them

Ukies are throwing everything they have to force a political outcome before Russia mobilizes. By trying to show Russia is losing, and with terror attacks. This is to turn the Russians against putin and the government. 

This is a fantasy. Putins approval rating is still astronomical, Russians are overwhelmingly supportive of their government and military mission, and are now royally pissed off and demanding overwhelming response 

I will enjoy the tears of our resident clowns and fake generals when the Russian offensive absolutely crushes your spirits and propaganda harder then the Russians crushed the 2 previous aggresive european armies that threatened Russia’s national survival

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> the important part was the rail road and that was not destroyed only a change of rails in that section . you think how long it will take ?
> also half of the road is intact and military convoys can use that half if an inspection show its safe. also consider the fact that the column are completely intact and only 3 section of the road has fallen into the water , you think how long it take for Russia to build those 3 section of the bridge and then transport them to the damaged site ?
> well i said a willing operator can fix it fast , the current record is 43h for a 1300 ton bridge and they had to also build the columns that keep the bridge in place and also destroy the old one


From the damages to road and rail sections I would say the repair will take weeks or months. But now unrealistic. Russia is at war, the most sanctioned country on earth. Russia can’t fix it quick. Oil, gas, aviation, ship, manufacturing, automobile industries of Russia are collapsing because all western companies pulled out.
Gazprom stops gas exports because a gas compressor is damaged. If Russia can’t even repair a compressor how will they repair bigger damages?

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## Hack-Hook

kingQamaR said:


> For the trolls who are saying it's "hardly destroyed" there are a few videos doing the rounds showing one carriageway of the road deck under water, the other carriageway looks to have multiple cracks. The rail bridge has been blazing for almost 4 hours now.


the fire on the rail is extinguished i post a photo of it , it was some fuel that were burning , hardly damage that bridge in open air and as i said the worst of the heat have been above fire not in fire itself . so the worst heat was above bridge and if half the bridge is in places it mean those cracks are just the asphalts above the actual bridge structure itself 9or what you see is the places that parts of the bridge connect to each other otherwise the bridge have been destroyed (don't forget each part of the bridge weigh more than 2-3 hundred ton , there is no way the actual structure get damaged and it stay in place)

also if you post those video that show the other half cracked and the rail-road bridge destroyed i very much like to see them , can you post it here for us to see


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Gazprom stops gas exports because a gas compressor is damaged. If Russia can’t even repair a compressor how will they repair bigger damages?


do you believe they stopped it because of that , did tey had problem with their other equipment
and about this photo






the actual bridge itself as you see is intact only damage to the guards around it , they just need to replace the rail there and some guards . its how the bridge look from top , you think how much damage is actually done to it








the damage you see is not the actual bridge structure itself , those are lateral beaming and the plates on them that is used in maintenance and damaged in fire , not important for the bridge to become operational and can be fixed later .
this is the part that you see damaged from the photo you post




the metal mesh on the right side of the picture


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## Reashot Xigwin

Slava traffic jam. 

There is only one Superpower


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578659032046268416


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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> From the damages to road and rail sections I would say the repair will take weeks or months. But now unrealistic. Russia is at war, the most sanctioned country on earth. Russia can’t fix it quick. Oil, gas, aviation, ship, manufacturing, automobile industries of Russia are collapsing because all western companies pulled out.
> Gazprom stops gas exports because a gas compressor is damaged. If Russia can’t even repair a compressor how will they repair bigger damages?



Looking at that bridge it looks like that bridge is now out of action

Both the remaining road carriageway and rail bridge will have to be closed for structural integrity checks. The Ukrainians have put the whole lot out of action for sure .

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> do you believe they stopped it because of that , did tey had problem with their other equipment
> and about this photo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the actual bridge itself as you see is intact only damage to the guards around it , they just need to replace the rail there and some guards . its how the bridge look from top , you think how much damage is actually done to it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the damage you see is not the actual bridge structure itself , those are lateral beaming and the plates on them that is used in maintenance and damaged in fire , not important for the bridge to become operational and can be fixed later .
> this is the part that you see damaged from the photo you post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the metal mesh on the right side of the picture


From the video footage the explosion was huge. That would have caused structural damage to the bridge, not just some cosmetics. Pretty much optimistic to say eh we just do some painting over then ok.
Whoever did it had probably calculated how much dynamic was necessary to cause irreversible damage.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Ooofff & it's the second worst burn that happened to Russia. 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578017864371605504

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578722671101026304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578720785404813312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578688418514542594

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## Reashot Xigwin

Someone should make a meme about this


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578684971811627009

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> From the video footage the explosion was huge. That would have caused structural damage to the bridge, not just some cosmetics. Pretty much optimistic to say eh we just do some painting over then ok.


it caused damage , to the bridge as it collapsed three section of it . but there is distance between two bridge and power of explosion is diminished by power of 3 . if you are 1 meter from the bridge you receive 27 time more energy than you are 30m away at 40m you receive 64 time less energy .

do you recall when usa tried to sink USS Independence (CVL-22) in operation crossroad with a nuke and they failed, the bomb was detonated half a mile away , again they detonated another bomb 7 day later and again they failed to sink it the first one was a free fall 23kt bomb and the second one was another 23 kt bomb but this time detonated underwater




the circle is 914m and number 28 is independent the 5 black ship sank , the orange ship was the ship that supposed to get bombed but air force made a 700m mistake in targeting
you think what would have happened if they detonated it 100m away

and in the case of the bridge , i say what i see , the other line of the car bridge stayed in place , why you think the railroad bridge get severely damaged while it was farther away and there is no sign of serious damage on it ? about the explosion you saw on camera , it actually look bigger than it was as it was dark then a big light , guess what the camerra would do to compensate for difference in the light intensity, traffic cameras do nothing , they become blind


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Someone should make a meme about this
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578684971811627009



They don't need Crimea bridge. They have land road via Donetsk, Zaporazhia, Kherson. Humans are tiny little ants on a mountain compared to planet Earth. HIMARS is powerful but it only makes little dents in the ground. Easily fixed.


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## Paul2

Hack-Hook said:


> won't be repaired the bridge is completely intact and show no damage , only damage to guards , to replace around 100m of damaged lines will only take several hours . its how we do it these days , Don't knew how Russian do it but even if they want to do it by hand it won\t take more than 1-2 day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the bridge didn\t recieved that much damage because the worst of the heat is actually above the fire not in fire itself , the heat go up and above the fire there was nothing . if the fire was under the bridge or if the bridge had two floor , then it was really damaging . its like you wnt to sink a steel hulled ship with napalm , israel once for 40min bombed a steel hulled ship with fire bombs and the ship stayed a float and when they offered help later the ship refused and sailed under its own power to a friendly port



Depends if armature inside is intact. Buildings which had fires inside often have to be knocked down if fire has damaged the armature inside the concrete.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578693763480059904

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## Mrc

Hack-Hook said:


> interesting , the video of the incident also show a lorry there , what you guys think was inside that lorry that made that explosion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when it move to the monitor in control room it showed the train exploded later , probably first the fuel tanker get damaged and then the fuel com in contact with hot metal





This looks like a suicide vehical born bombing using that van visible till explosion


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578697067668856833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578681842131435521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578679673844043776


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## Hack-Hook

Paul2 said:


> Depends if armature inside is intact. Buildings which had fires inside often have to be knocked down if fire has damaged the armature inside the concrete.


yes the key point is fire *inside* , do you knock-down a building which a tanker on the rough got fire , the heat go up . in the building you mentioned it is close environment , the heat have no other place to go and act as an oven or furnace 

for seeing what happen in front of your house build a concrete platform and burn fuel on it , see for yourself if there will be any damage but some charring


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The bridge is easily repaired. Money is not a problem. Russia has plenty of trees. Print money.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> wonder as that bridge is so important for Russia war effort , is it not more rational and easier you put the bomb on the train and rig it to detonate at a certain coordinate ?
> 
> at least if it was me i'd inspected the bridge regularly but I can't say how Russia would do it as they made so much decision in last 6-7 month that let say i consider them questionable
> 
> 
> ask that from a certain person that started it .
> 
> 
> ask that from a certain person that started it .


You cant control when the bomb is going off if you put it on a train, because that depends on the train, you don't move the bomb, the train move the bomb. It can be det before or after it crossed that bridge, or not at all, if that train was put out of service in the last minute.

Most likely senario given if this is Ukrainian doing, it will not be on a train. Too much variable to make it. 

I am most definitely believing Russia would have guard the bridge and clear it off explosive everyday, it's not that long stretch of road, they could have patrol going either way with minimum men power, they would be able to spot a 2000 pounder on the ground easy,. This is not a 155 round or 152 round IED job, too much bomb to be an artillery shell. This has to be either a dumb bomb, or a ballistic missile. 

That's why I said the most possible scenario is either a 2000 pounder hidden on a car or truck or whatever and it's a suicide mission, or Ballistic missile that take out that bridge


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

zartosht said:


> Russia has finally entered the next phase of its war.
> 
> 200-300k fresh troops will be injected. While even western media has reported that ukraines gone thru its regulars loong ago and is throwing any ukie it picks up on the street at gunpoint jnto the meat grinder
> 
> Russia is patiently organizing is forces for a massive attack that will break ukie necks. When only 90k Russian mobolized, it was easy for the ukies to mass forces against them, limit thinning out their forces , and predicting Russian movements.
> 
> Now the exhausted ukies will face a massive wave from many different fronts that will absolutely overwhelm and crush them
> 
> Ukies are throwing everything they have to force a political outcome before Russia mobilizes. By trying to show Russia is losing, and with terror attacks. This is to turn the Russians against putin and the government.
> 
> This is a fantasy. Putins approval rating is still astronomical, Russians are overwhelmingly supportive of their government and military mission, and are now royally pissed off and demanding overwhelming response
> 
> I will enjoy the tears of our resident clowns and fake generals when the Russian offensive absolutely crushes your spirits and propaganda harder then the Russians crushed the 2 previous aggresive european armies that threatened Russia’s national survival



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine pre war. Russia can afford partial mobilization which does not affect birth rate. Ukraine cannot afford that. Ukraine has to be full mobilization which puts a downer on birth rate. 10 years from now Ukraine's population down to 20 million.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You cant control when the bomb is going off if you put it on a train, because that depends on the train, you don't move the bomb, the train move the bomb. It can be det before or after it crossed that bridge, or not at all, if that train was put out of service in the last minute.


according to videos this was a suicide attack , about that bomb i mentioned , i meant for example if it come to a coordination proximity , here i meant the trigger was GPS controlled not a timer

i mean is it hard to design an app that activate reverse charging of a phone with USB-C connector when it come to for example 50m of a said coordination and then connect a detonator to that port

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> the road damage is due to the explosion on the rail road and there is no sign of damage to the road or truck explosion
> by the way if the damage is only to that section and the column are not damaged i say a willing operator can fix it in one week instead of months that mentioned here , and the rail road faster , but first i must see the damage to the rail-road bridge, the video only show damage to the guards on both side of the bridge
> 
> I'm not a demolition expert but can't you make a 1kg GPS triggered bomb that magnetically attach itself to the fuel tanks just in the size of a cigarette box and that will be enough to detonate one or two fuel tanks and the fuel in the tanks do the rest of the damage ?


Damage like this is not done by a bunch of grenade explosion or fuel car explosion, those are shrapnel explosion, or in the field, more Bang than Boom. To take out a concrete bridge, you need both Pressure and Heat, and that can only be done by TNT or PETN or equivalent explosive.

And it cannot be done by a 1KG device. If those explosives were planted on the load bearing pillar, that could be done with a a few C4 charges, but we can see from the explosive it was a surface blast. It cannot be anything smaller than an aircraft bomb to do that.

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## aziqbal

even the wind was on the side of Ukraine 

Ukraine really did a text book execution for this attack


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## jhungary

Inception-06 said:


> Impossible to fix that disaster, if they try it Ukraine will finde a way for a second shoot. Russians are dumped!


Well, if they can do it once, they probably could do it another time, but on the other hand, I don't see how Russia is fixing that bridge in a manner it would matter. 

That bridge is out, and will be out for a long time, losing a chunk like that you can't just lay across it, you will need to replace that slab completely, and that job would have taken months in peace time, not when you are under missile or IED threat.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> I saw a comment from Russia that a lorry exploded on the bridge.
> 
> Blowing up a Russian Army lorry loaded with grenades for Kherson would do the trick. Russians supply the explosives, and you only need a minor bomb to cause a chain reaction.
> If the Russian force Ukrainans into their Army, then sabotage is to be expected.


You can't bring down a whole section of a bridge with a tiny explosion and trunk loaded with grenade. A bridge was build with concrete, that can take a lot of blast. The way that bridge come down, judging by the photo is the section of that slab got completely removed from the brace that joint the 2 sections together, meaning that explosion had lifted the bridge up, rock it away and make the entire slab come back down not "re-sitting" back into the brace. It took a very big blast to move an entrie concrete slab like that. It's not some small explosion.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> even the wind was on the side of Ukraine
> 
> Ukraine really did a text book execution for this attack



A futile last ditch attempt. ISIS also used truck bombs but eventually lost Raqqa and Fallujah. Russia has 4 times Ukraine's population (pre war numbers). Ukraine cannot win.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Damage like this is not done by a bunch of grenade explosion or fuel car explosion, those are shrapnel explosion, or in the field, more Bang than Boom. To take out a concrete bridge, you need both Pressure and Heat, and that can only be done by TNT or PETN or equivalent explosive.
> 
> And it cannot be done by a 1KG device. If those explosives were planted on the load bearing pillar, that could be done with a a few C4 charges, but we can see from the explosive it was a surface blast. It cannot be anything smaller than an aircraft bomb to do that.


not on the road on the train that explode tankers but that don't matter as it was not the case as the video shows


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> Well, if they can do it once, they probably could do it another time, but on the other hand, I don't see how Russia is fixing that bridge in a manner it would matter.
> 
> That bridge is out, and will be out for a long time, losing a chunk like that you can't just lay across it, you will need to replace that slab completely, and that job would have taken months in peace time, not when you are under missile or IED threat.
> 
> 
> You can't bring down a whole section of a bridge with a tiny explosion and trunk loaded with grenade. A bridge was build with concrete, that can take a lot of blast. The way that bridge come down, judging by the photo is the section of that slab got completely removed from the brace that joint the 2 sections together, meaning that explosion had lifted the bridge up, rock it away and make the entire slab come back down not "re-sitting" back into the brace. It took a very big blast to move an entrie concrete slab like that. It's not some small explosion.


Seems like one side of the bridge is still standing no?


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> That bridge is out, and will be out for a long time, losing a chunk like that you can't just lay across it, you will need to replace that slab completely, and that job would have taken months in peace time, not when you are under missile or IED threat.


i still like to knew why you guys the railroad bridge is our as all the photo shows it only damaged superficially .
and also only half of the car bridge in 3 section is out . why Russia can't use the other half if after inspection it turn out its structurally sound enough to tolerate normal cars until the other half get fixed
the bridge was 4 line and 2 line are still in place



Wood said:


> Seems like one side of the bridge is still standing no?


that can't be used until get Okay by engineers that structure is safe enough and i doubt they can thoroughly inspect it in less than 3-4 day


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> yes the key point is fire *inside* , do you knock-down a building which a tanker on the rough got fire , the heat go up . in the building you mentioned it is close environment , the heat have no other place to go and act as an oven or furnace
> 
> for seeing what happen in front of your house build a concrete platform and burn fuel on it , see for yourself if there will be any damage but some charring


Without inspecting the bridge, I cannot say how fast they can put it back up to service. 

However, there are only a few ways a bridge can be fixed, normally you just either lay an engineer bridge section or cover it with plate for quick fix, both cannot be done in this case as the bridge sat on a sea (You cannot use Engineer Bridge span above the sea) and you cover the hole with plate to fix it. Because the entire section of the slab is on the seabed now, 

On top of that, we don't know how much damage is done to the rail bridge, rail bridge took a lot of loads, while normal traffic span only needs to support a few cars, a rail bridge needs to support a train, if the base is deformed by pressure and heat, you won't be able to run a train across. That mean you will need to conduct and engineer survey, and then try to reinforce the bridge and make it able to support train car over the damaged section. But even then, that's a temporary fix, along with the traffic bridge, you need to replace the entire span in order to have it fixed permanently. That's not a easy job when the bridge lay across the sea.


----------



## Inception-06

KAL-EL said:


> Yes the ring is in my possession. It is one of the Rings worn by Dracula with his crest.
> 
> And I absolutely believe the story.


Tell us more, how did you get this Ring, and what does it mean to have such a Symbol ?


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> Seems like one side of the bridge is still standing no?


With the heat and pressure damage? I don't think you can run anything across that section without collapsing it. And thats a railway section too, that stress will be a lot for a train to run over. 

Again, as I said, without personally inspecting the bridge, I do not know will it support a railway car as is, By the look of the photo, I will bet it wouldn't. You can try to patch up the unbroken side and use it for automobile traffic, but how long would it last? That's a $64,000 question.

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## aviator_fan

zartosht said:


> Russia has finally entered the next phase of its war.
> 
> 200-300k fresh troops will be injected. While even western media has reported that ukraines gone thru its regulars loong ago and is throwing any ukie it picks up on the street at gunpoint jnto the meat grinder
> 
> Russia is patiently organizing is forces for a massive attack that will break ukie necks. When only 90k Russian mobolized, it was easy for the ukies to mass forces against them, limit thinning out their forces , and predicting Russian movements.
> 
> Now the exhausted ukies will face a massive wave from many different fronts that will absolutely overwhelm and crush them
> 
> Ukies are throwing everything they have to force a political outcome before Russia mobilizes. By trying to show Russia is losing, and with terror attacks. This is to turn the Russians against putin and the government.
> 
> This is a fantasy. Putins approval rating is still astronomical, Russians are overwhelmingly supportive of their government and military mission, and are now royally pissed off and demanding overwhelming response
> 
> *I will enjoy the tears of our resident clowns an*d fake generals when the Russian offensive absolutely crushes your spirits and propaganda harder then the Russians crushed the 2 previous aggresive european armies that threatened Russia’s national survival


Right now you (not the situation in the war) is the source of great amusement. You write this paragraph of what you know and feel but even Russians watching just Russian TV (not twitter) are getting fed a dose of how Kremlin's own are criticizing Russian performance. This is not the US where any body can get on Fox news and oppose the Govt and side with the enemy.

Till then bless your approval ratings where the only answer is 'yes' but anybody that could afford to leave.

I also believe (looking at your flag) that the Revolutionary Guard are loved and have very adept at attacking women once they gave up doing anything of meaningful impact on Israel, their sworn enemy. Thats what Russia's future is: attacking its women and children

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> i still like to knew why you guys the railroad bridge is our as all the photo shows it only damaged superficially .
> and also only half of the car bridge in 3 section is out . why Russia can't use the other half if after inspection it turn out its structurally sound enough to tolerate normal cars until the other half get fixed
> the bridge was 4 line and 2 line are still in place
> 
> 
> that can't be used until get Okay by engineers that structure is safe enough and i doubt they can thoroughly inspect it in less than 3-4 day


That's because bridge are very depending on structural integrity. If a section of a bridge is damage, even a small damage, it will eat into it, and if you did not fix that permanently, it will only deteriorate further, to a point it will collapse itself as well. This is an engineer load bearing issue, and also stress issue, I cannot explain to you unless I give you a short run down of principal of engineering. 

On the other hand, Stress, Pressure and Heat damage are notoriously hard to see on the surface, it may look okay on the outside but if it was damaged structurally by pressure, you won't be able to see minor or even micro crack on those concrete and re-bar, it won't show up on picture like that, you would have to have people go under the bridge and find those crack, because small crack will become big, and it will become a tear, and then it would just break the bridge.


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## kingQamaR

Hack-Hook said:


> not on the road on the train that explode tankers but that don't matter as it was not the case as the video shows



Bridge exploded, with a fuel train crossing it . Ukrainian commandos!!!


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> On top of that, we don't know how much damage is done to the rail bridge, rail bridge took a lot of loads, while normal traffic span only needs to support a few cars, a rail bridge needs to support a train, if the base is deformed by pressure and heat, you won't be able to run a train across. That mean you will need to conduct and engineer survey, and then try to reinforce the bridge and make it able to support train car over the damaged section. But even then, that's a temporary fix, along with the traffic bridge, you need to replace the entire span in order to have it fixed permanently. That's not a easy job when the bridge lay across the sea.


if you look at the photos it look like only metal meshes on the side of the bridge are deformed and the bridge structure itself is intact , they probably need only change the rails and later fix the metal mesh
about fixing the car bridge there is another solution , it seems half the bridge is intact , if the structure on that half is sound and strong enough or if they manage to strengthen it enough they can carry metal slabs to the place they need and then move them on to the damaged area as the column of the bridge seems to be intact , on other hand they always can rebuild the fallen part as if they were building it for the first time but well it take more time . but all aside half the bridge is intact and after inspection they can use that half



jhungary said:


> That's because bridge are very depending on structural integrity. If a section of a bridge is damage, even a small damage, it will eat into it, and if you did not fix that permanently, it will only deteriorate further, to a point it will collapse itself as well. This is an engineer load bearing issue, and also stress issue, I cannot explain to you unless I give you a short run down of principal of engineering.
> 
> On the other hand, Stress, Pressure and Heat damage are notoriously hard to see on the surface, it may look okay on the outside but if it was damaged structurally by pressure, you won't be able to see minor or even micro crack on those concrete and re-bar, it won't show up on picture like that, you would have to have people go under the bridge and find those crack, because small crack will become big, and it will become a tear, and then it would just break the bridge.


my problem is that why the heat and stress most have damaged the bridge , it was not a closed area the heat dissipate , it was on the bridge not under the bridge so the worst of the heat would have gone away from the bridge not toward the bridge .the explosion energy that railroad bridge received at least was 50 time less than what road bridge received



kingQamaR said:


> Bridge exploded, with a fuel train crossing it . Ukrainian commandos!!!


more like Ukrainian suicide bombers , a truck get exploded on the bridge , they failed to drive truck toward the railroad section of the bridge and then detonate it

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> if you look at the photos it look like only metal meshes on the side of the bridge are deformed and the bridge structure itself is intact , they probably need only change the rails and later fix the metal mesh
> about fixing the car bridge there is another solution , it seems half the bridge is intact , if the structure on that half is sound and strong enough or if they manage to strengthen it enough they can carry metal slabs to the place they need and then move them on to the damaged area as the column of the bridge seems to be intact , on other hand they always can rebuild the fallen part as if they were building it for the first time but well it take more time . but all aside half the bridge is intact and after inspection they can use that half



As I said, you can't look at the photo and see what the damage is, nobody is that good. 

And even if that is metal meshes and re-bar, it does not mean it can support traffic. Again, you are talking about structure integrity, it only gives you the maximum load when the bridge is not compromised on both ends. The fact is, we KNOW there is damage done to the bridge, but we DON'T KNOW how much damage was done. But it would mean either way they will need to fix it somehow before they can be used again, and as I mentioned the quick fix way generally cannot be applies here, which mean this is going to be a long fix. 

And if you cannot take the load of a car, what make you think it can take the load of that "Metal Slab" you lay across the damaged section of the bridge?? 

If I have to guess, a blast that taken down that section of road bridge is not a small thing, it literally lift the bridge up and reset it somewhere, which make it collapse, which mean the railway bridge that set next to it would have taken at least serious amount of damage. I would bet if you fix the track and without fixing the bridge, it will collapse once the train run over that damaged section. But then as I said, I have to physically saw the damage to confirm it, and you can't tell anything good, or bad, from the photo itself.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> And if you cannot take the load of a car, what make you think it can take the load of that "Metal Slab" you lay across the damaged section of the bridge??


my question do you knew it can't take the weight of the car also its intact if its up there it can be fixed and strengthened 
if they close the bridge it don't mean it can't take the weight of car , it mean it need inspection before they determine it can be used again or not


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> my question do you knew it can't take the weight of the car also its intact if its up there it can be fixed and strengthened
> if they close the bridge it don't mean it can't take the weight of car , it mean it need inspection before they determine it can be used again or not


By car I mean train car, not a normal car. 

And as I said, you can't tell how bad or good that bridge is by the photo alone. 

And as I said, IF I HAVE TO GUESS, that bridge is seriously damaged, agian, it's not logical for that train bridge to suffer minimal damage if the road bridge is destroyed like that, that blast would have deal damage on both equally. But that is a guess, as I stressed that numerous time, without seeing the bridge myself, I would not know.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> If I have to guess, a blast that taken down that section of road bridge is not a small thing, it literally lift the bridge up and reset it somewhere, which make it collapse, which mean the railway bridge that set next to it would have taken at least serious amount of damage. I would bet if you fix the track and without fixing the bridge, it will collapse once the train run over that damaged section. But then as I said, I have to physically saw the damage to confirm it, and you can't tell anything good, or bad, from the photo itself.


but that blast failed to destroy the part of the roads that were beside it only to adjacent plate that were in contact with it , the part that were not in contact to plate just two 1 meter away from the section s in place why you think a blast that could not move weaker structure 1m away could damage a far stronger structure around 50+m away


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> but that blast failed to destroy the part of the roads that were beside it only to adjacent plate that were in contact with it , the part that were not in contact to plate just two 1 meter away from the section s in place why you think a blast that could not move weaker structure 1m away could damage a far stronger structure around 50+m away


That mean the blast LIFTED the entire bridge and move it. Now imagine how much of a force to lift up a section of the bridge and move it so it felt outside the curb when it come back down?

It's not like they just blew the socket joint out so it felt down.........LMFAO....


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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> it caused damage , to the bridge as it collapsed three section of it . but there is distance between two bridge and power of explosion is diminished by power of 3 . if you are 1 meter from the bridge you receive 27 time more energy than you are 30m away at 40m you receive 64 time less energy .
> 
> do you recall when usa tried to sink USS Independence (CVL-22) in operation crossroad with a nuke and they failed, the bomb was detonated half a mile away , again they detonated another bomb 7 day later and again they failed to sink it the first one was a free fall 23kt bomb and the second one was another 23 kt bomb but this time detonated underwater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the circle is 914m and number 28 is independent the 5 black ship sank , the orange ship was the ship that supposed to get bombed but air force made a 700m mistake in targeting
> you think what would have happened if they detonated it 100m away
> 
> and in the case of the bridge , i say what i see , the other line of the car bridge stayed in place , why you think the railroad bridge get severely damaged while it was farther away and there is no sign of serious damage on it ? about the explosion you saw on camera , it actually look bigger than it was as it was dark then a big light , guess what the camerra would do to compensate for difference in the light intensity, traffic cameras do nothing , they become blind


That were underwater and overwater explosions. That caused less damages. The water absorb much of explosion energy. In this case the explosion occurred direct over the bridge. Over steel concrete surface. The energy is more destructive. road sections collapsed. Rail sections burned at 4 places as you can see on the picture.
When the fire burned for hours then the bridge steel structures are damaged beyond repair.






Foto: -/AFP
Schäden an der Krim-Brücke ©


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> That were underwater and overwater explosions. That caused less damages. The water absorb much of explosion energy. In this case the explosion occurred direct over the bridge. road sections collapsed. Rail sections burned at 4 places as you can see on the picture.
> When the fire burned for hours then the bridge steel structures are irresistible damaged beyond repair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foto: -/AFP
> Schäden an der Krim-Brücke ©


Not to mention the burn damage was applies ON TOP of the pressure damage, the burning is done because of the fuel car exploded on top, you still have to account for the original blast. 

IMO, the rail bridge suffered MORE damage than the road bridge. It wasn't collapsed most likely because it was originally reinforced for Railway use. Otherwise, it would also lie in water right now.


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## BHAN85

Vergennes said:


> LMAO,seriously Russians would be the first ones to use nuclear weapons in a war of agression just because they are losing territories that aren't theirs in the first place.... In case of use not only the US would level them and their army in Ukraine + Russia would become a pariah state even worse than north korea,not even the Chinese would side with them.



I think that only the existence of China and his influence has avoided a Russian launching of a tactical nuke against Ukraine.

Putin meet Xi weeks before Ukraine war start.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> By car I mean train car, not a normal car.
> 
> And as I said, you can't tell how bad or good that bridge is by the photo alone.
> 
> And as I said, IF I HAVE TO GUESS, that bridge is seriously damaged, agian, it's not logical for that train bridge to suffer minimal damage if the road bridge is destroyed like that, that blast would have deal damage on both equally. But that is a guess, as I stressed that numerous time, without seeing the bridge myself, I would not know.


the problem is the road bridge actually didn't get completely destroyed if you consider that section of the bridge at 6 section it only damaged section 1-3-5 that were in contact with each other it didn't destroyed section 2-4-6 that were alongside it but had no contact with it and those section were just 1m away .
now the rail-road bridge it was 40-50m away and as you distance yourself from explosion the amount of energy you receive reduced by the power of 3 it mean at 40m you receive 64 time less energy than what you receive at 10m and at 50m you receive 125 time less energy than 10m also remain the question of that the railroad bridge is a lot stronger than the car bridge 
then my question why an explosion that could not dislodge a plate that was only 1m away from the section it was on could made serious damage to a more robust structure 50m away



jhungary said:


> Not to mention the burn damage was applies ON TOP of the pressure damage, the burning is done because of the fuel car exploded on top, you still have to account for the original blast.
> 
> IMO, the rail bridge suffered MORE damage than the road bridge. It wasn't collapsed most likely because it was originally reinforced for Railway use. Otherwise, it would also lie in water right now.


on that i believe you are wrong , the burning happened on top of the bridge so the heat was taken away from the bridge not like a building which act like furnace


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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> *What strategic reserve?
> 
> In a matter of weeks , if not days, there ain't gonna be no more Murica strategic reserve
> 
> What is new?
> 
> Murica cutting off own nose to spite the face in a brilliant Murican ploy conceived and executed by Nuland and menagerie of clowns and apes and Sleepy dotarding imbecile Joe*


Are you ok? 
Maybe seek professional help

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> That were underwater and overwater explosions. That caused less damages. The water absorb much of explosion energy.


sorry but you are completely wrong on that the water far notorious in transferring explosion shock-waves than air as its a lot denser, an explosion that have just thrown you away on the water , inside the water would have crush you .


Viet said:


> When the fire burned for hours then the bridge steel structures are damaged beyond repair.


depend on how and where it burn , test it make a building like slab of concrete and make a fire inside it for 4 hours , then make a concrete slab and make a fire over it for 4 hours and see the difference of damage for yourself


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> the problem is the road bridge actually didn't get completely destroyed if you consider that section of the bridge at 6 section it only damaged section 1-3-5 that were in contact with each other it didn't destroyed section 2-4-6 that were alongside it but had no contact with it and those section were just 1m away .
> now the rail-road bridge it was 40-50m away and as you distance yourself from explosion the amount of energy you receive reduced by the power of 3 it mean at 40m you receive 64 time less energy than what you receive at 10m and at 50m you receive 125 time less energy than 10m also remain the question of that the railroad bridge is a lot stronger than the car bridge
> then my question why an explosion that could not dislodge a plate that was only 1m away from the section it was on could made serious damage to a more robust structure 50m away


It did NOT need to be completely destroy.......If that happen, it only mean it suffered worse, it does not mean it did not suffer failure now. 

On the other hand, you quite obviously do not know how radius blast damage work. First of all, you don't even know where the origin of the explosion is, secondly, a blast that big, 40 -50 meters is not really a matter, again, I am suspecting a 2000lb bombs or equivalent, that have a blast damage of 600 meters, so no, it set 50 meters away would not have any different. 

And finally, just because the rail bridge did not felt it does not mean it took no damage. As I explained before, the heat damage is added ON TOP of the blast damage, which mean whatever the rail bridge suffered is going to be more than that road bridge and I would say if that bring down the road bridge, it would have been catastrophic, now unless Russia build that road bridge with crap material and shit engineering and that rail bridge on best material and detailed engineer calculation, the damage would be applies to the same loading to BOTH bridge, and just because it did not collapse, now, that does not mean it is not damaged beyond repair. 

Now, I will say that one final time, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH DAMAGE WERE DONE TO THE BRIDGE. As i said many times before, you have to see and inspect the bridge to know, but judging from the damages done to the other bridge and by a logical deduction, that bridge is gone, it will not be able to fix in just a few days. You can't lay a concrete or metal slab on top of it and call it fixed, I for one will not be willing to drive over that and bet my life on it if you know what I mean, I mean if you want to do that, that's up to you.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578747952234799104

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## sammuel

Viet said:


> Whoever did it had probably calculated how much dynamic was necessary to cause irreversible damage.



I agree it was well calculated.

Also this particular spot of the explosion , right before the bridge arches , on the Ukrainian side , must have carefully been chosen.

Not a bridge export , maybe someone can explain why they choose this particular spot before the arches ?



~


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> on that i believe you are wrong , the burning happened on top of the bridge so the heat was taken away from the bridge not like a building which act like furnace


Whatever you say.......

Sure, Heat cannot radiate, and cannot be conducted with metal. 

I mean, sure, there are only one way to suffer heat damage. Please do go ahead.



sammuel said:


> I agree it was well calculated.
> 
> Also this particular spot of the explosion , right before the bridge arches , on the Ukrainian side , must have carefully been chosen.
> 
> Not a bridge export , maybe someone can explain why they choose this particular spot before the arches ?
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Load bearing issue, 

We were taught in Ranger School if you want to bring down a bridge, you put explosive on the pillar, you do that if and when you need to denied your enemy to use it to attack you, it was done in a defensive manner, if you want to disable a bridge, you put bombs in between two pylons. You do that so your enemy cannot use it, you do this in offensive manner. 

That's a load and momentum thing, if you attack and cut off the middle part of the bridge, you have 2 unhindged section instead of one jointed section, that will seriously weaken the bridge, and if you want it to bring down completely, you put c4 on their load bearing pillars. But then it will take time to mine the bridge, it is most likely done in defensive operation.

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## Paul2

The paradox of war on at the current stage now, if you are on the Ukrainian side, is that you have lower chance to die going into frontal assaults than to sit in trenches. The highest risk mission is doing recon/logistics in the greyzone. Russians do have drones too. Lingering within their arty reach will eventually attract a strike.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> On the other hand, you quite obviously do not know how radius blast damage work. First of all, you don't even know where the origin of the explosion is, secondly, a blast that big, 40 -50 meters is not really a matter, again, I am suspecting a 2000lb bombs or equivalent, that have a blast damage of 600 meters, so no, it set 50 meters away would not have any different.


isn't it reduced cubed according to distance ? yes or no?
Isn't physiques law universal ? yes or no ?
does not it matter haw far you are from point blank the amount of damage you receive? yes or no ?
do you really believe it don't matter if the fire is on top of a armed concrete slab or it under under the slab ? yes or no?

and at last do you guys really are taught a blast under water damage you far less than a blast above water ?



jhungary said:


> Whatever you say.......
> 
> Sure, Heat cannot radiate, and cannot be conducted with metal.
> 
> I mean, sure, there are only one way to suffer heat damage. Please do go ahead.


you see it can , but which one is hotter burn 1 ton of fuel in a furnace or throw it on the ground in open and the burn it ?


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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> sorry but you are completely wrong on that the water far notorious in transferring explosion shock-waves than air as its a lot denser, an explosion that have just thrown you away on the water , inside the water would have crush you .
> 
> depend on how and where it burn , test it make a building like slab of concrete and make a fire inside it for 4 hours , then make a concrete slab and make a fire over it for 4 hours and see the difference of damage for yourself


Diesel fuel can cause flame temperature of max 2,000C. 1h burn thru is enough to cause every steel concrete structure to collapse.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> isn't it reduced cubed according to distance ? yes or no?
> Isn't physiques law universal ? yes or no ?
> does not it matter haw far you are from point blank the amount of damage you receive? yes or no ?
> do you really believe it don't matter if the fire is on top of a armed concrete slab or it under under the slab ? yes or no?
> 
> and at last do you guys really are taught a blast under water damage you far less than a blast above water ?


That's BS argument, because both you and I know nothing about how extensive the damage is. Which mean all of the above question are Yes and No at the same time, because we don't know where the origin of the blast. You are assuming it is on the road bridge side, we don't know. Unless you know something, I don't

And underwater blast did a different damage than ground blast. Underwater blast usually uses pressure to attack structural integrity, while ground blast are both pressure and explosive. Take an artillery shell as an example. when it attack a ground position, the explosive blast itself will done damage, but more are done to the concussion. On the other hand physic dictate any physical force will be dissipated in the water, which make blast damage done to a very limited area, but the pressure wave will not. Which mean the concussion damage remain.


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## PakFactor

RoadAmerica said:


> Are you ok?
> Maybe seek professional help



Ignore that idiot. The Chinese were short of talented trolls, so they picked that fool from the countryside.

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## aziqbal

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> A futile last ditch attempt. ISIS also used truck bombs but eventually lost Raqqa and Fallujah. Russia has 4 times Ukraine's population (pre war numbers). Ukraine cannot win.



meanwhile Chinese already Surender on behalf of Russia to the West


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## kingQamaR

Hack-Hook said:


> my question do you knew it can't take the weight of the car also its intact if its up there it can be fixed and strengthened
> if they close the bridge it don't mean it can't take the weight of car , it mean it need inspection before they determine it can be used again or not



From the footage I’ve seen , that bridge won’t be usable for a while. The roadway is hanging down in the water and the rail bridge looks like it’s not safe to use anymore either. The fire could weaken it further and cause it to collapse!


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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> Russia has finally entered the next phase of its war.
> 
> 200-300k fresh troops will be injected. While even western media has reported that ukraines gone thru its regulars loong ago and is throwing any ukie it picks up on the street at gunpoint jnto the meat grinder


Fakenews 1. 
Zelenski even canceled the autumn draft 

And nobody is being dragged into service at gunpoint. 


zartosht said:


> Russia is patiently organizing is forces for a massive attack that will break ukie necks.


Fakenews 2.
They are instead rushing troops in to plug the gaps.
On to fakenews 3. Troop amount was higher. 
When only 90k Russian mobolized, it was easy for the ukies to mass forces against them, limit thinning out their forces , and predicting Russian movements.


zartosht said:


> Now the exhausted ukies will face a massive wave from many different fronts that will absolutely overwhelm and crush them


Morale is sky high and they just captured alot of material from the russians. Far from exhausted..just watch further gains shortly.


zartosht said:


> Ukies are throwing everything they have to force a political outcome before Russia mobilizes. By trying to show Russia is losing, and with terror attacks. This is to turn the Russians against putin and the government.
> 
> This is a fantasy. Putins approval rating is still astronomical, Russians are overwhelmingly supportive of their government and military mission, and are now royally pissed off and demanding overwhelming response


Support for war is slowly dropping.



zartosht said:


> I will enjoy the tears of our resident clowns and fake generals when the Russian offensive absolutely crushes your spirits and propaganda harder then the Russians crushed the 2 previous aggresive european armies that threatened Russia’s national survival


Sure buddy. With your shitposts…

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## Viet

sammuel said:


> I agree it was well calculated.
> 
> Also this particular spot of the explosion , right before the bridge arches , on the Ukrainian side , must have carefully been chosen.
> 
> Not a bridge export , maybe someone can explain why they choose this particular spot before the arches ?
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Probably the weakest point of the bridge. This blast is the best news of the week. The days of russian troops at Kherson are numbered.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Probably the weakest point of the bridge. This blast is the best news of the week. The days of russian troops at Kherson are numbered.











Ilyushin Il-76 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Mil Mi-26 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578749816351649792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578749894558289920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578761497345372160

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## gambit

RoadAmerica said:


> Are you ok?
> Maybe seek professional help


The PDF Chinese behavior is typical of guests abusing the host's generosity. Each animated gif cost bandwidth and they do not care.

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## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> Agree all Europeans people need head exam
> British did to some sects and racea may not be known to blue eye Europeans but it's well documented else where
> Just visit France skull collection or British royal museum
> 
> There was no difference between Hitler or British atrocities..the only difference was one were Europeans and others were Indians/Africans.
> My great grand mother head all sort of stories how pushtoon we're eliminated in current Pakistan..
> 
> 
> View attachment 885615
> 
> 
> Good luck to Ukraine
> 
> The east interest in war is as long as it end quickly and wheat and oil keep flowing..
> 
> 
> Most of the eastern countries know this is only possible if Russia wins otherwise the war will be prolonged for no use.
> 
> Musk had the right idea
> View attachment 885617


Execution by cannon was invented by your rulers.
The British simply adopted the local habit.
Executions of deserters is not the same as extermination of a race
or You perhaps claim that the British killed millions by tying them to cannons…


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578735518740717573

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> according to videos this was a suicide attack , about that bomb i mentioned , i meant for example if it come to a coordination proximity , here i meant the trigger was GPS controlled not a timer
> 
> i mean is it hard to design an app that activate reverse charging of a phone with USB-C connector when it come to for example 50m of a said coordination and then connect a detonator to that port


You do not need to connect to the USB-C port. Bluetooth would do just fine.
Then again, it might be an embedded system with a GPS receiver.


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## Paul2

gambit said:


> The PDF Chinese behavior is typical of guests abusing the host's generosity. Each animated gif cost bandwidth and they do not care.



中俄两国；_不是盟友，胜似盟友_。

Explaining Beijing official policy towards Russia:

Russia is not an ally, because nobody needs an ally weaker than yourself
Russia being ready to supply bottomless resources unconditionally just for "friendship" is indeed much better than any real ally

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578762815271497728

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578762945378779137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578769260016730112


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## jhungary

Joke of the Day 

Putin's Aide - Mr President, I have great news, the London Bridge has come down by our glorious Spetsnaz, 
Putin - Da, that was the greatest Birthday Present.
Putin's Aide (Being worry) - Actually, it was the Crimea bridge that you opened in 2018 that had come down.



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578735518740717573


There are talks already in Ukraine that the Post Office of Ukraine will issue stamp on the downed Crimean Bridge to commemorate Putin's Birthday.

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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578749816351649792
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578749894558289920
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578761497345372160


The rail part is ****ed, and the highway into Crimea is blown up


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## Goenitz

jhungary said:


> n. On the other hand physic dictate any physical force will be dissipated in the water, which make blast damage done to a very limited area, but the* pressure wave *will not.


----------



## jhungary

I am not joking..









Ukraine mocks Russia with Crimea bridge blast commemorative stamp


Ukrainian post office announces it's preparing to print stamps showing the 'Crimean bridge -- or more precisely, what remains of it'




www.timesofisrael.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578771043141185538

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578772148776480768

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## ziaulislam

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Execution by cannon was invented by your rulers.
> The British simply adopted the local habit.
> Executions of deserters is not the same as extermination of a race
> or You perhaps claim that the British killed millions by tying them to cannons…


So it made it okay for British to execute kids and everyone

By that logic looting and killing was invented by vikings so Hitler was okay than

Thanks

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578757961643528194

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## jhungary

Goenitz said:


>


Yeah, most people mistaken that Torpedo kills ship with explosion. 

Well it does not, it's more a pressure wave creating a bubbling effect like the one in Pistol Shrimp uses.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578727351093202944

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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578771043141185538
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578772148776480768


Show us the train passing near the blown up part

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## ziaulislam

For most of Asians Hitler did nothing wrong..
He killed Europeans/jews but far more asians were killed by British, French and dutch then Germans..
Had Hitler won the war we would have been studying on atrocities of British Dutch and French..and that how Germans frees HALF of the world from colonial rule.

History is written by the victors.
PS my grandfather was prisoner of war against Japs

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578693288378667008

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## Beny Karachun

ziaulislam said:


> For most of Asians Hitler did nothing wrong..
> He killed Europeans/jews but far more asians were killed British, French and dutch then Germans..
> Had Hitler won the war we would have been studying on atrocities of British Dutch and French..and that how Germans frees HALF of the world from colonial rule.
> 
> History is written by the victors


Lol retard

Hitler was allied with Japan that killed far more Asians than Britiah, French, Dutch and Germans.

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## ziaulislam

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol retard
> 
> Hitler was allied with Japan that killed far more Asians than Britiah, French, Dutch and Germans.


Lol..reatarded Europeans don't even know how to do maths

Are yous saying Hitler killed more then 60 million Bengalis?

This is just one region.

I am sure British killed more then Genghis khan

Seems it was Hitler who blew half of pushtoon population not the british

The amount of delusions Europeans have IS MIND BOGGLING

Just wow

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## Beny Karachun

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You do not need to connect to the USB-C port. Bluetooth would do just fine.
> Then again, it might be an embedded system with a GPS receiver.


Pretty easy to do with Waze API or Google Maps API, you basically have it all set up,you write a code, when waze says "Arrived to destination" your code activates a button and you blow up your bomb. 

No need for anything out of the ordinary, it's all open sourced, I can do that if you give me a bomb, a detonator and a laptop with GPS capability.

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## Goenitz

jhungary said:


> Damage like this is not done by a bunch of grenade explosion or fuel car explosion, those are shrapnel explosion, or in the field, more Bang than Boom. To take out a concrete bridge, you need both Pressure and Heat, and that can only be done by TNT or PETN or equivalent explosive.


Yes, targeted pressure or rapid vibration can tear concrete.. though will not shatter it. heat is not necessary to melt etc but to cause great deal of* local* thermal expansion.. Shockwave if translates whole section (below plastic limit), nothing will happen... as concrete is very tough. Vibration is another things.. You know the calculus on teeth breaks down due to pulsation of water (like hammering) than momentum (due to speed).


----------



## Beny Karachun

ziaulislam said:


> Lol..reatarded Europeans don't even know how to do maths
> 
> Are yous saying Hitler killed more then 60 million Bengalis?
> 
> This is just one region.
> 
> I am sure British killed more then Genghis khan
> 
> Seems it was Hitler who blew half of pushtoon population not the british
> 
> The amount of delusions Europeans have IS MIND BOGGLING
> 
> Just wow


60 million Bengalis? Care to explain when?

The Japanese, allied with Germany, killed around 10 million Koreans, Chinese and other East Asians.


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> If civilian safety is not important, of course, army engineering capabilities can make this bridge usable for limited, convoy crossings. I do not have enough research on the army engineering possibilities of the Russian army, but I do not think that the army, which has one of the most important armored inventories in the world, is completely inadequate in this sense.
> 
> On the other side, high temperature causes brittleness in prestressed concrete blocks and rebars. Contrary to what is written here, a very fast result cannot be obtained on repair. Because the only thing that needs to be done is not rebuilding the bridge deck.



Totally agree - all the individuals who think the rail track can be easily repaired - dont appreciate the effect of burning fuel on the concrete structure itself. Fuel leaked from the fuel-train all over the railway and burned on the surface itself.

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## jhungary

Goenitz said:


> Yes, targeted pressure or rapid vibration can tear concrete.. though will not shatter it. heat is not necessary to melt etc but to cause great deal of* local* thermal expansion..


If I was not mistake, people use high pressure hose to cut concrete......









High Pressure Water Jet to Cut Concrete


Table of ContentsHigh-Pressure Pump and WaterlineWater Monitor and Test StandConcrete Test BlocksTesting ProcedureComputer AnalysisDesign of ExperimentDetermination of Physical PropertiesTreatment of DataResults of AnalysisDepth of PenetrationVolume of Material RemovedWidth of SlotEnergy...




www.911metallurgist.com


----------



## Goenitz

jhungary said:


> If I was not mistake, people use pressure hose to cut concrete......


Yes.. that is technically due to momentum.. like sand blasting (if held closely near the target).. it gives a clean cut by eroding. If flow is pulsating, it acts like a hammer. The repetitive strike send shockwave, causing fatigue or/and micro plastic deformations.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Soviet / Russian infrastructure is much harder to destroy than American infrastructure. Soviet / Russia is socialist where everything is owned by the state. America is capitalist. Capitalist infrastructure is shoddy due to cost saving and corruption. That's why Twin Towers collapsed.

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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Soviet / Russian infrastructure is much harder to destroy than American infrastructure. Soviet / Russia is socialist where everything is owned by the state. America is capitalist. Capitalist infrastructure is shoddy due to cost saving and corruption. That's why Twin Towers collapsed.


Lmfao, nonsense, a quick look at the roads of Russia as opposed to the roads of western countries will easily tell you otherwise

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## jhungary

Ukraine war latest: Bridge linking Russia to Crimea 'reopened' after powerful explosion


The bridge linking Moscow-annexed Crimea to the Russian mainland reopened to car traffic Saturday evening after it was heavily damaged by an explosion.




www.telegraph.co.uk





They had already came up with a design, that was fast...Maybe they know something we don't

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> 中俄两国；_不是盟友，胜似盟友_。
> 
> Explaining Beijing official policy towards Russia:
> 
> Russia is not an ally, because nobody needs an ally weaker than yourself
> Russia being ready to supply bottomless resources just for "friendship" is indeed much better than anything you can get from an ally on an equal footing


Russia becomes a cheap gas station for China. Xi Jingping will ask for 90 percent discount from unlimited friend Putin or else…

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## jhungary

Conscripted Russians Keep Mysteriously Dying Before Reaching Battlefield



Ukraine don't need to kill those conscript anymore, Moscow is doing it for them.

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## That Guy

ziaulislam said:


> For most of Asians Hitler did nothing wrong..
> He killed Europeans/jews but far more asians were killed by British, French and dutch then Germans..
> Had Hitler won the war we would have been studying on atrocities of British Dutch and French..and that how Germans frees HALF of the world from colonial rule.
> 
> History is written by the victors.
> PS my grandfather was prisoner of war against Japs


If Hitler had won, you and I would either be slaves to the Germans or dead.

Hitler's goal was to conquer the world and rid if of non-aryans, the only exception being the Japanese who he gave the title of honorary aryans to.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578781366720032769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578785731375665152

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## BHAN85

Beny Karachun said:


> 60 million Bengalis? Care to explain when?
> 
> The Japanese, allied with Germany, killed around 10 million Koreans, Chinese and other East Asians.


UK killed millions of bengalis of starving to death.

If UK had lost WWII, they would be seen worst than nazis in history books.

But they won.

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## ziaulislam

That Guy said:


> If Hitler had won, you and I would either be slaves to the Germans or dead.
> 
> Hitler's goal was to conquer the world and rid if of non-aryans, the only exception being the Japanese who he gave the title of honorary aryans to.


There is no objective evidence to that claim just constant propoganda. Not saying he would have but there is no way to tell.

One thing is undisputed without Hitler British would have never left Asia

Hitler support both Japs and rebel Indians
Noone knows what Hitler would have done. After all he attacked his alley in Russia as well. He could have turned against Asians sure possible..but at time of conflict that wasn't the case as you pointed out



BHAN85 said:


> UK killed millions of bengalis of starving to death.
> 
> If UK had lost WWII, they would be seen worst than nazis in history books.
> 
> But they won.


They killed far more..this is just one example
The starvation was deblierate so that Japs don't get hold of "grain"
I don't see how this is different then Jews genocide can someone tell me how this is different?????
You have to say by making common wealth they were very successful in erasing their misdeed and genocides

Same way America has erased the crime of boiling pregnant women to dust in heroshoma negasaki..that too when war was over in European front and Japs were only limited to mainland Japan



Ali_Baba said:


> Totally agree - all the individuals who think the rail track can be easily repaired - dont appreciate the effect of burning fuel on the concrete structure itself. Fuel leaked from the fuel-train all over the railway and burned on the surface itself.
> 
> 
> View attachment 885658


Obviously a sobotage.

Let see what will Russia do now.

Ukriane has decided it will take Crimea as well.

Will Russia escalate or nor

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## BHAN85

Beny Karachun said:


> Pretty easy to do with Waze API or Google Maps API, you basically have it all set up,you write a code, when waze says "Arrived to destination" your code activates a button and you blow up your bomb.
> 
> No need for anything out of the ordinary, it's all open sourced, I can do that if you give me a bomb, a detonator and a laptop with GPS capability.


It's not the tech big deal a smartphone or even a feature phone than turn on some electric thing when GPS position is x, you dont need Google Maps API.

I think it require a little bit more technology the accurate coincidence with the train position.

Or Ukraine had spies watching the train moves.

Or the West gave the intel from his sats.


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## Paul2

BHAN85 said:


> If UK had lost WWII, they would be seen worst than nazis in history books.



UK has formally won, but de-facto lost it. It did cost Brits the Empire.


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 7​Oct 7, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Katherine Lawlor, Grace Mappes, and Frederick W. Kagan
October 7, 9:15 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Western and Russian reports of fractures within the Kremlin are gaining traction within the Russian information space, undermining the appearance of stability of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s regime. *_The Washington Post _reported that US intelligence obtained information that a member of Putin’s inner circle directly criticized Putin’s “extensive military shortcomings” during the war in Ukraine, and other Western and Kremlin-affiliated officials noted rising criticism of Putin’s mishandling of the war and mobilization.[1] Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov acknowledged that there have been debates in the Kremlin regarding mobilization in a statement to _The Washington Post_ but denied all allegations of a member of the Kremlin confronting Putin. ISW cannot verify any of these reports are real or assess the likelihood that these arguments or fractures will change Putin’s mind about continuing the war, let alone if they will destabilize his regime. Word of fractures within Putin’s inner circle have reached the hyper-patriotic and nationalist milblogger crowd, however, undermining the impression of strength and control that Putin has sought to portray throughout his reign.
Some Russian milbloggers have begun speculating that there are two factions within the Kremlin following Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov and Wagner Private Military Company financier Yevgeny Prigozhin’s harsh criticism of the Russian higher military command.[2] A milblogger told his nearly one million readers that Kadyrov and Prigozhin are part of the faction that seeks to continue the war and accomplish its ideological goals regardless of cost. The milblogger noted that the faction opposed to them consisted of government officials who wish to negotiate with the West to save their assets and residences in the West but are too afraid to confront Putin directly. The milblogger expressed hope that the pro-war faction will defeat the faction that fails to see that Russia cannot afford to end the war.
The presentation of fundamental disagreements within Putin’s inner circle and challenges to his decisions, even if quiet, within the Russian nationalist space risks depicting Putin as weak and not fully in control of his government. The truth or falseness of that presentation is less important than its injection into the audiences on which Putin most relies for continued support in his war. Putin himself may have externalized his own concerns about this break in the façade of his power and of the unanimity of his trusted senior officials in an odd exchange with a teacher on October 5.[3] Putin asked the teacher how he taught his students about the causes of the Pugachev Rebellion that challenged Catherine the Great in the mid-1770s.[4] The teacher, from Izhevsk, one of the towns that Pugachev captured during his revolt, offered answers that did not satisfy Putin, including the observation that the rebellion had occurred because of the appearance of “a leader who could capitalize on a wave of dissatisfaction,” and that the lesson to be drawn from that episode of history was “that it is necessary to respect the views of other members of society.” Putin offered his own answer: “The leader [Pugachev] claimed to be tsar. And how did that arise? Why was that possible?...Because of the element of weakening of the central power.”[5] The exchange was bizarre and fascinating since there is no reason Pugachev’s Rebellion should have been on Putin’s mind at this time, nor any reason for him to worry about someone else “claiming to be tsar.”—unless, of course, Putin himself perceives a weakening of the central power, i.e., himself.[6]
*Kadyrov and Prigozhin will likely attempt to make minor ground advances in Donetsk Oblast to maintain their prominence and reputation in the nationalist and proxy information spaces.* Russian forces have been making incremental advances around Bakhmut and Avdiivka between October 6 and October 7, likely with the support of Wagner and Kadyrov’s elements in the area. Some milbloggers and Ukrainian officials reported that Prigozhin committed 1,000 of his troops to strengthen positions in Lysychansk to secure Russian frontlines following the collapse of the Lyman frontline.[7] Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Denis Pushilin even awarded Kadyrov the title of hero of the DNR.[8] The claims about Kadyrov and Prigozhin making gains and preparing to save the day coincides with Kremlin efforts to improve the reputation of the Commander of the Central Military District, Colonel-General Alexander Lapin whom they both attacked earlier.[9] Milbloggers even reported meeting Lapin, who is now reportedly commanding the Svatove-Kreminna frontline in Luhansk Oblast.[10]
*Russian President Vladimir Putin may have waited to announce that he had replaced Eastern Military District (EMD) Commander Aleksandr Chaiko until Putin could use Chaiko as a scapegoat for Russian military failures in Kharkiv and Lyman. *Russian media reported on October 7 that Putin replaced Chaiko with Lieutenant General Rustam Muradov. Chaiko is the second military district commander to be replaced since the Russian lines in Kharkiv collapsed—Putin replaced the Western Military District commander on October 3, as ISW previously reported.[11] Oddly, Russian milbloggers first reported that Muradov had replaced Chaiko on September 4, but the Kremlin has yet to formally confirm the appointment.[12] State-run and independent media outlets quoted the governor of Dagestan congratulating Muradov on his appointment and cited an entry in the Unified State Register of Legal Entities to confirm the replacement.[13] Muradov had previously commanded the eastern grouping of Russian forces in Ukraine, which is likely comprised of elements of the EMD, as of July.[14]
*Key Takeaways*

*Western and Russian reports of fractures within the Kremlin are gaining traction within the Russian information space, undermining the appearance of stability of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s regime.*
*Russian President Vladimir Putin may have waited to announce that he had replaced Eastern Military District (EMD) Commander Aleksandr Chaiko until he needed to use Chaiko as a scapegoat for Russian military failures in Kharkiv Oblast and Lyman, Donetsk Oblast.*
*Ukrainian forces likely continued counteroffensive operations along the Kreminna-Svatove road in western Luhansk Oblast.*
*Russian forces continued to establish defensive positions in northern Kherson Oblast, and Ukrainian and Russian sources reported ongoing battles north and northwest of Kherson City.*
*Russian forces continued ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast.*
*Anecdotal reports of poor conditions for mobilized personnel in the Russian information space are continuing to fuel the accurate narrative of Kremlin and Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) incompetence.*
*Russian officials offered basic concessions for mobilized men and their families on October 7 but continue to rely on local governments and other non-federal institutions to provide support, including food and training, to newly mobilized men.*
*Russian occupation authorities in Donetsk Oblast are continuing to forcibly mobilize Ukrainian civilians, belying Russian claims that residents of newly-annexed territories will not be mobilized.*
*Ukrainian officials in newly liberated Kharkiv Oblast continue to uncover Russian torture chambers and other human rights abuses.*
*Russian occupation officials have likely failed to repair necessary civilian infrastructure in occupied and illegally-annexed parts of Ukraine in time for winter as temperatures drop.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Oskil River-Kreminna Line)*
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued to counterattack from Kharkiv Oblast in the direction of Svatove on October 7. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian advances on settlements east and southeast of Kupyansk.[15] Russian forces continued to shell Kupyansk and settlements in its vicinity.[16]
Ukrainian forces likely continued counteroffensive operations along the Kreminna-Svatove road in western Luhansk Oblast on October 7. The Russian MoD claimed that Russian forces repelled a Ukrainian attempt at crossing the Zherebets River in an unspecified area in the Lyman direction.[17] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that heavy fighting is ongoing in unnamed settlements in Luhansk Oblast and noted that Russian forces are realizing the vulnerability of their defensive positions in Svatove.[18] Haidai added that Russian forces are mining infrastructure in Svatove and are stealing medical equipment from the settlement while calling on residents to evacuate.[19] Haidai added that Russian officers abandoned mobilized servicemembers in Kreminna.[20] Russian milbloggers reported that Central Military District Commander Colonel-General Alexandr Lapin is overseeing the situation on the Kreminna-Svatove stretch, especially Russian preparation of defensive positions in the area.[21]Russian sources claimed that Russian volunteer units BARS-16 and BARS-13 and elements of the 3rd Motorized Rifle Division are entrenching their positions and uploaded footage of a military convoy reportedly moving in the direction of Svatove.[22] Russian and Ukrainian sources claimed that 1,000 Wagner soldiers redeployed to Lysychansk to prevent Ukrainian breakthroughs in the area following the fall of Lyman.[23]
Russian forces continued to launch unsuccessful assaults north of Kharkiv City on October 7. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian assault on Krasne, approximately 30km northeast of Kharkiv City.[24]



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Russian forces continued to establish defensive positions in northern Kherson Oblast on October 7. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces continued to shell settlements in northern Kherson Oblast in an effort to prevent Ukrainian advances in the southern direction and fired S-300 air-defense missiles at ground targets in liberated settlements.[25] Kherson Oblast Military Administration Advisor Serhiy Khlan reported that Russian forces have urgently redeployed troops from Nova Kakhovka to Beryslav and emphasized that Russian forces still have the ability to cross the Dnipro River.[26] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Ukrainian forces unsuccessfully attempted to advance into Russian positions in Pyatokhatki, Sadok, Ishchenka, and Bezimenne.[27] Russian milbloggers also claimed that Russian forces are forming defensive lines along the Sukhyi Stavok-Borozenske-Sukhanove-Mylove line, running from the Inhulets River to Dnipro River.[28] Some Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces are still operating in Sukhy Stavok, however.[29]
Ukrainian and Russian sources reported ongoing battles north and northwest of Kherson City on October 7. Ukrainian military officials reported that Russian forces unsuccessfully attacked in the direction of Zeleny Hai-Ternovi Pody (approximately 30km northwest of Kherson City) three times.[30] The Russian MoD and milbloggers, in turn, claimed that Ukrainian forces attacked Russian positions in Ternovi Pody.[31] Russian sources also claimed that Russian forces are consistently firing at Ukrainian forces in Pravdyne and Soldatske, and along the E58 (M14) highway.[32] Russian forces are also fortifying positions northwest of Kherson City by having the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) 127th Regiment dig trenches in Kyselivka.[33] Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces attacked Maksymivka, about 33km due north of Kherson City.[34] Mykolaiv Oblast Administration Head Vitaliy Kim also stated that Russian command may have left Snihurivka (approximately 60km east of Mykolaiv City) but noted that he cannot confirm this information at this time.[35]
Ukrainian forces continued their interdiction campaign in Kherson Oblast to support their southern counteroffensive. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces struck an area of Russian force concentration in Borozenske (approximately 45km northeast of Nova Kakhovka), killing 10 servicemen and wounding 20.[36] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian forces struck three Russian ammunition depots in northern Kherson and southeastern Mykolaiv Oblasts and shot down a Russian Ka-52 helicopter.[37] Social media users reported that Ukrainian forces also struck Russian positions in Chornobaivka (northwest of Kherson City) and noted a gas pipe explosion in Kalanchak in southern Kherson Oblast.[38] Social media footage also showed the aftermath of a reported strike on a civilian mini-bus crossing the Inhulets River in Dariivka; Russian-appointed occupation officials blamed Ukrainian forces for the attack.[39]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued conducting ground attacks throughout Donetsk Oblast on October 7. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults on Bakhmut, to the northeast near Vyimka, Bakhmutske, and Krasna Hora and to the south near Andriivka and Mayorsk.[40] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults around Avdiivka near Kamianka and Vesele to the north, Pervomaiske to the west, and Nevelske to the southwest.[41] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults in western Donetsk Oblast near Pobieda and Novomykhaililvka.[42] The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) claimed that Russian and allied forces seized Otradivka, Vesela Dolyna, and Zaitseve, all south of Bakhmut, and geolocated footage showed that Russian forces entered Zaitseve on October 7.[43] A Russian source claimed that Russian forces are attempting to advance on Soledar and Bakhmutske.[44]A Russian source claimed that Russian forces made marginal advances toward Pervomaiske.[45] Russian sources claimed that the Russian 42nd Guards Motorized Rifle Division (MRD), which is subordinate to the 58th Combined Arms Army of the Southern Military District, stormed Ukrainian positions in Mariinka, and that unspecified Russian forces are advancing towards Novomykhailivka and Pobieda, south of Marinka in western Donetsk Oblast.[46] The 42nd MRD is based in Chechnya.



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued to conduct routine artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole and in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv Oblasts on October 7. Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck Zaporizhzhia City, Mykolaiv City, and unspecified areas of Odesa Oblast with drones.[47] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces also struck Slavhorod, Zaporizhia Oblast, 95km north of the front line.[48] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces continued routine shelling of Nikopol and Marhanets, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast on the northern bank of the Dnipro River.[49]
A Russian source expressed continued concern that Ukrainian forces are preparing to imminently launch a counteroffensive on the Zaporizhia Oblast front line.[50] The source claimed that Ukrainian officials and forces are conducting an information operation to mislead Russian forces about the probability of an offensive so Russian forces will transfer manpower away from other parts of the front line.[51] Ukrainian officials have made no concrete statements about a Ukrainian counteroffensive in Zaporizhia Oblast and have certainly not been conducting an information operation to that effect that ISW has been able to observe. It is more likely that Russian milbloggers have run an information operation on themselves by constantly repeating warnings of an imminent attack.
Russian and Ukrainian sources traded accusations of shelling the Zaporizhzhia Thermal Power Plant in Enerhodar, temporarily cutting power to the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) on October 7.[52] The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) confirmed that shelling damaged a power line, forcing the ZNPP to temporarily rely on its emergency diesel generators.[53] IAEA Director-General Rafael Grossi announced that the IAEA successfully rotated out its observers at the ZNPP, indicating that Russian occupation authorities are still allowing IAEA access to the plant despite ongoing tensions.[54]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
ISW cannot confirm how representative ongoing anecdotal reports of poor conditions for mobilized personnel are of the experience of the 300,000 or more mobilized Russian men. However, the prevalence of those anecdotes in the Russian information space is damaging the Kremlin by continuing to fuel the accurate narrative of Kremlin and MoD incompetence. Poor conditions could also be a driving force behind reported defections, surrenders, and strikes by mobilized personnel. Ukrainian intelligence officials told reporters that over 2,000 Russians contacted Ukraine’s “I Want to Live” surrender hotline since partial mobilization was announced on September 21.[55] Ukraine’s Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on October 7 that it intercepted a call wherein a Russian soldier told his wife that 60 of the 65 mobilized men in his unit disappeared without a trace on their second day at the frontlines.[56] Independent Russian media outlet _Sota _reported on October 6 that 100 mobilized men from Bryansk Oblast who were deployed to Belgorod Oblast refused to fight in Lyman because they had not received the training or duty assignments they were promised.[57] Around 500 Russian servicemembers in Livenka, Belgorod Oblast had called for a strike on October 5 due to unbearable living conditions.[58] Belgorod Oblast Governor Ivan Budlov announced that he sent 299 servicemembers to a different training ground on October 6 with better weapons, food, and medics, demonstrating that public pressure surrounding the conditions of the mobilized is forcing Russian government officials to make at least sporadic concessions.[59]
The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) attempted to defend itself from popular criticism of its training of mobilized personnel by sharing the announcement of a new “Russian Center for Mobilization Training” on October 7.[60] The new center will provide “educational activities for additional professional programs in the field of mobilization training and mobilization,” per the government decree, but is capped at 69 employees—an absurdly small number of trainers for the 300,000 men that the MoD claims it will mobilize under “partial mobilization.” The announcement is primarily a public relations stunt that will not alter Russian force generation capabilities in the coming months. The center is not subordinated to the MoD but rather to the Main Directorate for Special Programs of the President of the Russian Federation, which is technically in charge of mobilization. The center’s existence may or may not affect the Kremlin’s long-term ability to mobilize more capable personnel but is extraordinarily unlikely to improve those capabilities in the short term due to the ongoing bureaucratic incompetence of the MoD and its demonstrated shortages of training personnel.
Russian officials offered basic concessions for mobilized men and their families on October 7 but continue to rely on local governments and other non-federal institutions to provide support, including food and training, to newly mobilized men. Russian President Vladimir Putin signed two laws on October 7 exempting mobilized personnel and other participants in his “special military operation” from accruing penalties for late payments for housing, communal services, loans, and credit card debts.[61] Such payment holidays may cost the Russian federal government little in the short term, but the Kremlin likely hopes that such “concessions” will limit criticism of mobilization. The governors of Leningrad and Nizhny Novgorod Oblasts canceled planned celebrations of mass holidays, including New Year celebrations.[62] Russian outlets reported that holiday funds would be used to support the invasion of Ukraine and mobilized men and their families. The Union of Veterans of Belgorod announced on October 7 that it is working with a public organization for the promotion of patriotism, “Patria,” to ask the Belgorod Oblast government to allow both organizations to assist in organizing basic military training courses for mobilized residents of Belgorod Oblast.[63] The Union reported that veterans and specialists are currently developing a curriculum and that they are receiving support from other veterans’ groups. The Union claimed that it hopes to spread the initiative to Kursk Oblast.
Some Russian citizens continued to express their dissatisfaction with Russia’s “partial mobilization” on October 6-7. Social media users circulated a video of a man who lit two cars on fire in Moscow on October 6 using Molotov cocktails while shouting anti-war slogans.[64] Russian authorities quickly detained him. An unidentified person threw a Molotov cocktail at a military enlistment office in Simferopol in Russian-occupied Crimea on October 7.[65] And _RT _reported that Russian officials detained two university students for distributing anti-mobilization and anti-war leaflets in Russia’s Ryazan Oblast on October 7.[66]
The Ukrainian General Staff reported on October 7 that Russian occupation authorities in Donetsk Oblast are continuing to forcibly mobilize civilians, belying Russian claims that residents of newly-annexed territories will not be mobilized.[67] The General Staff said that in Horlivka, occupation authorities are targeting residents who did not support Russia’s illegal annexation and are detaining men who try to avoid mobilization to forcibly mobilize them into the Donetsk People’s Republic’s (DNR) 1st Army Corps. Mariupol Mayoral Advisor Petro Andryushchenko reported on October 7 that Russian officials issued mobilization summons to Mariupol men who work at a metallurgical plant in Russia’s Lipetsk Oblast.[68] The men had previously obtained Russian passports through an accelerated citizenship process for residents of Russian-occupied areas.
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Ukrainian officials in newly-liberated Kharkiv Oblast continue to report Russian torture chambers and other human rights abuses, further confirming ISW’s previous assessments that the atrocities uncovered in Bucha, Izyum, and elsewhere were not isolated war crimes but rather a microcosm of Russian atrocities throughout Russian-occupied areas.[69] The head of the Investigative Department of the State Police in the Kharkiv Oblast, Serhiy Bolvinov, reported that Ukrainian forces have so far discovered 22 Russian torture chambers in Kharkiv Oblast as of October 6.[70] He reported that Russian forces used electric shocks, severe beatings, suffocation, and tearing out fingernails as common methods of torture against local civilians.
ISW Non-Resident Fellow Nataliya Bugayova warned in April 2022 that “Bucha is an observable microcosm of a deliberate Russian terror campaign against Ukrainians. Similar intentional atrocities are happening throughout Russian-occupied areas in Ukraine.”[71] Ukrainian officials will likely continue to find evidence of Russian war crimes and atrocities as Ukrainian forces liberate occupied areas.
Russian occupation officials have likely failed to repair necessary civilian infrastructure in occupied and illegally annexed parts of Ukraine as winter approaches and temperatures drop, risking a humanitarian catastrophe. Ukraine’s Resistance Center reported on October 7 that occupation authorities have left half of occupied Zaporizhia Oblast without heating after failing to repair or build new natural gas pipelines.[72] The Center assessed that Russian authorities may not begin work on restoring natural gas supplies to parts of Zaporizhia oblast until the spring.
Ukrainian officials continued to encourage partisan activity in Russia’s illegally-annexed and occupied Ukrainian regions. GUR Representative Vadym Skibitsky stated on October 7 that Ukrainian partisan activity will only intensify in Russian-occupied parts of the country and emphasized that Ukrainian law allows for partisan activity.[73] Skibitsky emphasized that the GUR sees a strong partisan movement in Crimea, Kherson, and Zaporizhia oblasts, where partisans are not only eliminating collaborators and sharing intelligence, but also forcing Russian officials to use Rosgvardia and FSB forces to control populations in occupied territories.

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## Ali_Baba

*“A Bridge too Far” *









Video shows mystery 'wave' under Crimea bridge just before explosion


The bridge between Crimea and the Russian mainland has been crucial to the Russian military for supplying Putin's war in Ukraine.




www.dailymail.co.uk





*Pakistan, Ukraine, And The Race For Third-Party Ammunition*








Pakistan, Ukraine, And The Race For Third-Party Ammunition


In the rush to source artillery rounds, Ukraine and its allies turned to Pakistan and an air bridge provided by military cargo planes.




www.thedrive.com

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578787279770116097


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578781366720032769
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578785731375665152


So its a one way brigde now. Its better than before.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578807481001996288

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578775651792072705

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## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> So it made it okay for British to execute kids and everyone
> 
> By that logic looting and killing was invented by vikings so Hitler was okay than
> 
> Thanks



The British executed deserters and mutinous soldiers this way.
They did not execute ”everyone”. Then You would have not been alive and the crown-colony would have not had any population.
Looting and killings predated Vikings by thousands of years.
You simply hate the British but that does not make your comments true.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578671281905750018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578741237628432390


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## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> For most of Asians Hitler did nothing wrong..
> He killed Europeans/jews but far more asians were killed by British, French and dutch then Germans..
> Had Hitler won the war we would have been studying on atrocities of British Dutch and French..and that how Germans frees HALF of the world from colonial rule.
> 
> History is written by the victors.
> PS my grandfather was prisoner of war against Japs


If Germany had won the war, Japan would have won the war, and India would have been worked to death in Japanese slave camps.


----------



## aziqbal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> If Germany had won the war, Japan would have won the war, and India would have been worked to death in Japanese slave camps.



listen you Western boy you lot have been killing each other for 1000s of years way before Islam or any Asian even come to Europe 

and when not killing each other you kill poor Africans and bomb Middle East 

you killed 65 million of each other in WW1 and 45 million of each other in WW2 and now WW3 make it 200 million + 

so better you keep busying fighting each other as it gives the rest of us a break

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## The SC



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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> UK killed millions of bengalis of starving to death.
> 
> If UK had lost WWII, they would be seen worst than nazis in history books.
> 
> But they won.


No, the UK did not kill millions.
”Killing” is an activity.
Depriving of food is not ”killing”, unless a person is kept locked up without food.

It is far from - collecting people , shipping them to extermination caps where they are gassed to death within 24 hours of arrival.

You better open a new thread on this subject if you want to continue arguing.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You do not need to connect to the USB-C port. Bluetooth would do just fine.
> Then again, it might be an embedded system with a GPS receiver.


probably 
these days you can see a lot inventive use for bords like Arduino and raspberry Pico and such boards


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Diesel fuel can cause flame temperature of max 2,000C. 1h burn thru is enough to cause every steel concrete structure to collapse.





jhungary said:


> That's BS argument, because both you and I know nothing about how extensive the damage is. Which mean all of the above question are Yes and No at the same time, because we don't know where the origin of the blast. You are assuming it is on the road bridge side, we don't know. Unless you know something, I don't
> 
> And underwater blast did a different damage than ground blast. Underwater blast usually uses pressure to attack structural integrity, while ground blast are both pressure and explosive. Take an artillery shell as an example. when it attack a ground position, the explosive blast itself will done damage, but more are done to the concussion. On the other hand physic dictate any physical force will be dissipated in the water, which make blast damage done to a very limited area, but the pressure wave will not. Which mean the concussion damage remain.





kingQamaR said:


> From the footage I’ve seen , that bridge won’t be usable for a while. The roadway is hanging down in the water and the rail bridge looks like it’s not safe to use anymore either. The fire could weaken it further and cause it to collapse!





Beny Karachun said:


> The rail part is ****ed, and the highway into Crimea is blown up





Ali_Baba said:


> Totally agree - all the individuals who think the rail track can be easily repaired - dont appreciate the effect of burning fuel on the concrete structure itself. Fuel leaked from the fuel-train all over the railway and burned on the surface itself.
> 
> 
> View attachment 885658


well as explained continuosly for nearly four hours and repetedly denied by many https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63183404



MeFishToo said:


> So its a one way brigde now. Its better than before.


well not exactly , its a 4 lane bridge, each side two lane they easily can assign each lane to one side and resume the operation till those 3 section get fixed.

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> well as explained continuosly for nearly four hours and repetedly denied by many https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63183404


The train part is ****ed, as I said. 
But yeah, the other side of the bridge still works.


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Depriving of food is not ”killing”, unless a person is kept locked up without food.


you knew that is not considered killing but genocide , and we also have talk about these special practice of British empire



Beny Karachun said:


> The train part is ****ed, as I said.
> But yeah, the other side of the bridge still works.


a test train passed over it , that part is actually the least damaged part of it


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## Beny Karachun

BHAN85 said:


> It's not the tech big deal a smartphone or even a feature phone than turn on some electric thing when GPS position is x, you dont need Google Maps API.
> 
> I think it require a little bit more technology the accurate coincidence with the train position.
> 
> Or Ukraine had spies watching the train moves.
> 
> Or the West gave the intel from his sats.


If they knew the speed of the train a simple math equation and accurate coordinates could solve this.
But I guess they used something more advanced.

Or it was a suicide bomber lol



Hack-Hook said:


> you knew that is not considered killing but genocide , and we also have talk about these special practice of British empire
> 
> 
> a test train passed over it , that part is actually the least damaged part of it


Hmmmm. Unfortunate.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578798383191687168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578798134422949888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578797864087851009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578787044821979138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578779174457683969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578828904131067904


----------



## Flight of falcon

Bridge is now open for traffic and train service …. Less than 14 hours after the explosion. 









Crimea bridge partly reopens after huge explosion - Russia


The explosion wrecked one section of Europe's longest bridge, reportedly killing three people.



www.bbc.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578802435870453762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578801825943154688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578799754980786176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578824584702611456

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> If they knew the speed of the train a simple math equation and accurate coordinates could solve this.
> But I guess they used something more advanced.
> 
> Or it was a suicide bomber lol


certainly a lot more advance than a gps bomb , except in logic circuit


Beny Karachun said:


> Hmmmm. Unfortunate.


well shit happens. I wonder will it be a wakeup call for Russia and seriously participate in war or they will continue current nonsense


----------



## Ali_Baba

Hack-Hook said:


> well as explained continuosly for nearly four hours and repetedly denied by many https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63183404
> 
> 
> well not exactly , its a 4 lane bridge, each side two lane they easily can assign each lane to one side and resume the operation till those 3 section get fixed.



Right - so the single undamaged roadway(which we all knew about) is operational with 'light' traffic ... no actual proof on the train railroad being operational ..

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## Mrc

Russians shud seriously consider tactical nuclear strike or risk a humiliation

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## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> well as explained continuosly for nearly four hours and repetedly denied by many https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63183404
> 
> 
> well not exactly , its a 4 lane bridge, each side two lane they easily can assign each lane to one side and resume the operation till those 3 section get fixed.


Opened or not, bombing that bridge was a huge propaganda win for Ukraine. If it was a truck carrying the explosives, how can russia trust its own security concerning that bridge? They were already checking trucks passing it, but it still happend. All it takes is a larger briefcase of money and the last 2 lanes are gone.

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## Hack-Hook

Ali_Baba said:


> Right - so the single undamaged roadway is operational with 'light' traffic ... no actual proof on the train railroad being operational ..


come on i more than half an hour ago posted video of a test train pass over it.
and that one roadway has two lane also there is another thong that just come to my mind
look at this photo





there seems to be a section between road bridge and railroad bridge , at least when they were building it , wonder what happened to that section after they built the bridge


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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> well shit happens. I wonder will it be a wakeup call for Russia and seriously participate in war or they will continue current nonsense


I'm pretty sure that's their serious mode.
What's left for them to introduce except nuclear weapons?

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## MeFishToo

Beny Karachun said:


> I'm pretty sure that's their serious mode.
> What's left for them to introduce except nuclear weapons?


Nothing except sending more people in the trenches. The russian mobilized forces doesnt change its offensive capabilities. If there is nothing to defend they might aswell dont go.

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## khansaheeb

A view from Moscow: Ukraine war will get worse | The Bottom Line​


----------



## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> Opened or not, bombing that bridge was a huge propaganda win for Ukraine. If it was a truck carrying the explosives, how can russia trust its own security concerning that bridge? They were already checking trucks passing it, but it still happend. All it takes is a larger briefcase of money and the last 2 lanes are gone.


Russia problem not mine , i don't care about who win this war and already for many time stated the way Russia fight this war is hilarious 
if I was fighting this war even a single bridge between Ukraine and the rest of Europe would not have stayed and not a single airport in Ukraine were in working condition and it was more than 6 month that Ukrainian did not have any telephone or electricity.

all i talked about was about technicality of the attack . i said the railroad bridge was intact and a fire above a concrete structure don't harm it that much people here saw the 9/11 attack and taught the situation in that attack was the same as this one . i stated that only the mesh work and guards on one side the bridge was damaged and it was so.
about the road bridge i said only 3 section of one side of the road are damaged and the pillars are intact so the other half of the bridge can be used and other said no, well it was as I said . I talked about the physics behind it and was told you don't understand those laws it turn out I understand the basic behind those laws fairly well .

about the politic behind this war and who is right and who is wrong not my problem and don't care at all. even if tomorrow they detonated six car on it not my problem between them and Russians



Beny Karachun said:


> I'm pretty sure that's their serious mode.
> What's left for them to introduce except nuclear weapons?


attack Ukraine infrastructure like electricity network , bridges , communication networks . airports

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578832695840632833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578802436797771776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578841311515639808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578742264020336640

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578831806551404544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578837088249606145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578830461589016576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578831584437805056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578831914324328449

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## MeFishToo

Still a one way bridge. Seems the other part did take some damage and only one lane open.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Inception-06 said:


> The British Empire and UK has killed millions in the colonies actively. It’s written history.


In the same way as the US killed millions of civilians in Iraq, although only around 200-250,000 died, and 90% of those were killed by other muslims.
As i said, open a thread if You want to discuss,



ziaulislam said:


> Yeah sure haha.
> I think we should just praise the role swedes played in WW2
> 
> Apparently Hitler loved their steel


And the Allies appreciated the ball-bearings and all the information they received after Sweden broke the crypto used in the Geheimschreiber.





T-52 Geheimschreiber







www.cryptomuseum.com

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> you knew that is not considered killing but genocide , and we also have talk about these special practice of British empire
> 
> 
> a test train passed over it , that part is actually the least damaged part of it


The ”famine” in Bengal had many causes with the primary cause being the Japanese invasion of Burma depriving Bengal of a third of the rice supply.

The British part mainly consisted of not allocating shipping needed for D-Day preparations to shipping grain from Australia. That is not genocide.
Again, it is irrelevant for the thread.

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## Super Falcon

Poseidon torpedos will be used as bartending tool with west to force Ukraine on its knees

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> and the famine in Iran was also the result of Javanese attack , strangely it happened in British controlled area and Tehran
> 
> 
> usa figure for that engineered famine death toll at first was 15m and later moderated to 10-12m


Nobody cares - *in this thread…*



Inception-06 said:


> I would not like to discuss with you about the fate of millions death through the British Empire through their colonies. Such matter’s are to serious to take it in a pub.


Don’t worry. I am not interested in anything more than kicking out the discussion from this thread, Fake News can be discussed elsewhere.
If You still continue, You will be on ignore.


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## MeFishToo

Super Falcon said:


> Poseidon torpedos will be used as bartending tool with west to force Ukraine on its knees


Is it even operational?


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Thousands of mobilised Russians sent home, deemed unfit for duty​_The latest troop setback follows Ukraine’s recapture of Lyman in Donetsk, a move which Kyiv says sets the stage for further gains._






Russian reservists meet at a gathering point in the course of partial mobilisation of troops, aimed to support the country's military campaign in Ukraine [File: Reuters]
Published On 3 Oct 20223 Oct 2022
Thousands of Russians mobilised for military service in Ukraine have been sent home after being deemed unfit for duty, the latest setback to President Vladimir Putin’s conscription of 300,000 servicemen.
Mikhail Degtyarev, the governor of the Khabarovsk region in Russia’s far east, said several thousand men had reported for enlistment in 10 days but many were ineligible.
“About half of them we returned home as they did not meet the selection criteria for entering the military service,” Degtyarev said in a video post on the Telegram messaging app.
He said the military commissar in Russia’s Khabarovsk region was removed, but that his dismissal would not affect the mobilisation.
Russia’s first call to arms since World War II, declared on September 21, led to widespread discontent and drove thousands of men to flee abroad.
The move was billed as enlisting those with military experience.

Meanwhile, criticism over Putin’s war in Ukraine has been growing at home.
Some 2,000 people were arrested at anti-war protests in more than 30 towns and cities, with independent news outlets saying some detained were served summons to report at military enlistment offices.
Russian officials usually supportive of the president also expressed anger over the mobilisation move, in a rare show of dissent.
Among them, Valentina Matviyenko, the chairwoman of Russia’s upper house, the Federation Council, said mistakes made in sending call-up papers were “absolutely unacceptable”.
The Russian military appeared increasingly in turmoil on Monday as it suffered a stinging setback in its strategic rail hub of Lyman, in the Donetsk region.
Ukrainian forces claimed that their recapture of the major bastion sets the stage for further advances that could cut off thousands of Russian troops from all supplies as winter sets in.
Ukraine’s lightning counteroffensive in September has put into question Russia’s ability to control the Donbas.
Putin on September 30 proclaimed the annexation of four regions covering nearly a fifth of Ukraine, an area that includes Lyman.
Kyiv and the West have condemned the move as a meaningless war tactic following referendums conducted during the occupation and without oversight.
The announcement, which brings the annexed territories under Russia’s nuclear umbrella, constitutes the most serious escalation of the conflict since Moscow invaded Ukraine in February, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said.
Al Jazeera’s Mohamed Vall, reporting from Moscow, said Russia’s lower parliament was expected on Monday to ratify a draft constitutional law allowing the admission of the new provinces, which Russia now calls “independent”.
“Nobody expects any vote against these treaties,” Vall said, despite the reality on the field shifting in favour of Ukraine.
In a separate development, Putin ally Ramzan Kadyrov, the leader of Russia’s southern Chechnya region, called for the use of “low-yield nuclear weapons” to defend Russia’s “territorial integrity”.
The United States said it would respond decisively to any use of nuclear weapons and has warned Moscow of “catastrophic consequences”.









Thousands of mobilised Russians sent home, deemed unfit for duty


Latest troop setback follows Ukraine’s recapture of Lyman in Donetsk.




www.aljazeera.com

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Greek Foreign Minister Says Issue Of German Reparations For World War II Remains Open​
Sumaira FH Published October 06, 2022 | 02:00 AM

MOSCOW (UrduPoint News / Sputnik - 06th October, 2022) The issue of reparations from Germany to Greece for World War II remains open to the Greek government and society, Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias said on Wednesday.

"For the Greek Government and the Greek society this issue (reparations from Germany) remains open; and its resolution, which is primarily a matter of principle, I think will be beneficial for all the countries involved and the EU as such," Dendias said after a meeting with his Polish counterpart, Zbigniew Rau.

*Greece is seeking 309.5 billion Euros ($306 billion) in war reparations from Germany for damage during World War II and 9.2 billion euros for World War I. In addition, Greece estimates the compensation for the deaths and injuries should be more than 107.2 billion euros. Berlin claims that it has already compensated for the damage long ago.*

Dendias said in July that Athens appreciates that the current generation of Germans took historical responsibility for Nazism, although it had nothing to do with it, but the Greeks want Germans to take full responsibility and pay reparations.

Poland has also recently demanded Germany pay reparations for World War II despite Berlin's claims the issue was over.
https://defence.pk/pdf/javascript:void(0)








Greek Foreign Minister Says Issue Of German Reparations For World War II Remains Open - UrduPoint


The issue of reparations from Germany to Greece for World War II remains open to the Greek government and society, Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias said on Wednesday.For the Greek Government and the Greek society this issue (reparations from Germany) remains open; and its resolution, which...




www.urdupoint.com

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## MeFishToo

What is that down the left corner?

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## aziqbal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578867525462667265
Traffic is moving again 

Also trains are running but slowly 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578805579400679425

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## MeFishToo

aziqbal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578867525462667265
> Traffic is moving again
> 
> Also trains are running but slowly
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578805579400679425


One lane alternating in both directions. Trucks advised to use ferries. So it did something besides humiliating Putin.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578868124484792322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578860454780489728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578859436277653504

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> well as explained continuosly for nearly four hours and repetedly denied by many https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63183404
> 
> 
> well not exactly , its a 4 lane bridge, each side two lane they easily can assign each lane to one side and resume the operation till those 3 section get fixed.


The key word is "Partly" reopened.

Any damaged bridge can be Partly Reopened, literally until it had completely collapsed. That can mean literally anything, It said



> *Light traffic has resumed on Russia's only bridge to Crimea, hours after a huge blast brought down sections of the roadway.*




Did it reopen to human traffic, ie you can walk across?
Did it reopen to Road Traffic, ie you can drive across?
Did it reopen to Railway Traffic, ie you can take a train across.

And then there is a counterflow issue. and the frequency issue. How many cars or train are you allowing them to cross the bridge

Again, we don't know the extent of the damage, but seems to me, you know a lot of stuff we don't know, or at least you think you know.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> you knew that is not considered killing but genocide , and we also have talk about these special practice of British empire
> 
> 
> a test train passed over it , that part is actually the least damaged part of it


This video is most likely a fake

This video is supposed shot at 19:00 (it said 13 hours after the "attack" the attack is on 06:03 local time), when sun set in Crimea yesterday at 18:45 and last light reported at 18:52. It won't get pitch black at 19: 00....Unless Crimea don't go thru Twilight

This video probably was shot from after mid-night. Probably during night maintenance when the Bridge have low to no traffic. Actually, I don't even know if this is the same bridge, it literally just shows a bridge with train across it. It could literally be any railway bridge.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578722671101026304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578802892672479232

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

-=virus=- said:


> Putin should just nuke these cuntbags and their American masters
> 
> peace can wait till that walking corpse, old man biden is either dead (soon) or out of office...
> 
> he's disgusting, this demented old corpse.. Hunter ka papa
> 
> View attachment 885738



Indian-origin student Vikram Buddhi sentenced to jail in US









Indian-origin student Vikram Buddhi sentenced to jail in US


IIT alumnus Vikram Buddhi has been sentenced to 4 years and 9 months in prison and three years of supervised release for posting hate messages in 2006 to the then US President George W Bush.




www.ndtv.com

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## -=virus=-

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Indian-origin student Vikram Buddhi sentenced to jail in US
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian-origin student Vikram Buddhi sentenced to jail in US
> 
> 
> IIT alumnus Vikram Buddhi has been sentenced to 4 years and 9 months in prison and three years of supervised release for posting hate messages in 2006 to the then US President George W Bush.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ndtv.com


ok.. so ? 

what point were/are you trying to make here ?

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

-=virus=- said:


> ok.. so ?
> 
> what point were/are you trying to make here ?



Indians never learn. 

Get prepared to dorn the orange uniform.

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## -=virus=-

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Indians never learn.
> 
> Get prepared to dorn the orange uniform.


I still don't get what point you were trying to make there.. so some Indian got sent to jail in 2006.. so ? idgaf

dont even bother explaining, I'll never get your extreme rules based life bull shite anyway..


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

-=virus=- said:


> I still don't get what point you were trying to make there.. so some Indian got sent to jail in 2006.. so ? idgaf
> 
> dont even bother explaining, I'll never get your extreme rules based life bull shite anyway..



You trying to feign ignorance with me will not help your case.

There are many US service personnel and citizens like @gambit @jhungary @F-22Raptor etc who will feel obligated to report your post to the US authorities.

PDF management will be obligated to reveal your identity and you will be charged accordingly.

For your own good please delete your post immediately instead of trying to be smart with me.

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## Bengal71

PakFactor said:


> Ignore that idiot. The Chinese were short of talented trolls, so they picked that fool from the countryside.



I don't even want him banned. He is so much fun, I literally look for his posts, read them and have my daily dose of laugh. Mods will do a great harm to me if they ban him.

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## -=virus=-

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> You trying to feign ignorance with me will not help your case.
> 
> There are many US service personnel and citizens like @gambit @jhungary @F-22Raptor etc who will feel obligated to report your post to the US authorities.
> 
> PDF management will be obligated to reveal your identity and you will be charged accordingly.
> 
> For your own good please delete your post immediately instead of trying to be smart with me.


what the hell are you even on about, my man ?

what post ?

@jhungary @gambit and @F-22Raptor are going to report me to the US authorities for what exactly ? 

what you smoking, bro .. I can has toke, pliz ?

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## jhungary

-=virus=- said:


> what the hell are you even on about, my man ?
> 
> what post ?
> 
> @jhungary @gambit and @F-22Raptor are going to report me to the US authorities for what exactly ?
> 
> what you smoking, bro .. I can has toke, pliz ?


Yeah, I have reported you to the FBI.......

I am this bored......LOL

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578895123504861184


----------



## -=virus=-

jhungary said:


> Yeah, I have reported you to the FBI.......
> 
> I am this bored......LOL


..waiting for a black hawk and fast-roping mods to come double-tap shoot me with the ban gun.


----------



## jhungary

-=virus=- said:


> ..waiting for a black hawk and fast-roping mods to come double-tap shoot me with the ban gun.


SWATTING is for loser pal......That's a GG.......

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## jhungary

Inside Russian army's shoddy equipment including 'useless' first-aid kits


RUSSIAN soldiers have been complaining bitterly about their shoddy equipment, including flimsy helmets and useless first-aid kids. In a viral video, a soldier crushes a Russian helmet with just his…




www.the-sun.com





If you are a soldier, you know how bad is this, it kind of give you an insight on why the Russian did so badly in the field.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> I would say Stryker or LAV would better suit the role. You can carry more troop into combat that way. M1117 are mostly used for ISTAR, it makes sense for Afghan to have it because they would need to call US Air Strike on target, it wouldn't make sense for the Ukrainian to have them.
> 
> 
> Ukraine won't put HIMARS close to the frontline, that is a good way to have them destroyed by COUNTBAT or Airstrike. they will put them inland, The reason is Russia don't need to put pressure on Ukraine if their job is to defend Crimea, it would have been another way around. Which mean the Ukrainian would expose their troop in order to go on the attack.
> 
> It's very hard to crack Crimea defence, traditional sense you would need to have naval superiority to be able to take it. Again, I don't know if Russian is this inept but what I am saying is the general term.


I'm not saying they should or would put the HIMARS at the frontlines, they have the reach to hit into Crimea far enough. Hitting airbases, defense, command and control, etc. Ukrainians are very adaptable with the tools and skills they have. If they have boats and helos, and more missiles and drones for air support they could launch an assault. I have some good ideas when looking at Crimea map and where to attack it. But as I have said, they need to whittle down its defenses before launching a major assault.



MeFishToo said:


> What is that down the left corner?
> View attachment 885732


Bridge dislocated.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> I'm not saying they should or would put the HIMARS at the frontlines, they have the reach to hit into Crimea far enough. Hitting airbases, defense, command and control, etc. Ukrainians are very adaptable with the tools and skills they have. If they have boats and helos, and more missiles and drones for air support they could launch an assault. I have some good ideas when looking at Crimea map and where to attack it. But as I have said, they need to whittle down its defenses before launching a major assault.
> 
> 
> Bridge dislocated.


BY front line I don't mean like the forefront, like where the troop movement were, I mean at least 3-40km from the troop movement is, otherwise you can't cover the troop push because once they push 10-20 km into Crimea, they are out of the Artillery range and you will need to move them forward, and that takes time. 

As for what Ukraine can do, well, I don't know, but rest assure we are going to find out soon, once the US release what is included in the Lend Lease Package, we will know what Ukrainian are trained for. We may have some surprise when that did eventually released.

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## Oldman1

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Thousands of mobilised Russians sent home, deemed unfit for duty​_The latest troop setback follows Ukraine’s recapture of Lyman in Donetsk, a move which Kyiv says sets the stage for further gains._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian reservists meet at a gathering point in the course of partial mobilisation of troops, aimed to support the country's military campaign in Ukraine [File: Reuters]
> Published On 3 Oct 20223 Oct 2022
> Thousands of Russians mobilised for military service in Ukraine have been sent home after being deemed unfit for duty, the latest setback to President Vladimir Putin’s conscription of 300,000 servicemen.
> Mikhail Degtyarev, the governor of the Khabarovsk region in Russia’s far east, said several thousand men had reported for enlistment in 10 days but many were ineligible.
> “About half of them we returned home as they did not meet the selection criteria for entering the military service,” Degtyarev said in a video post on the Telegram messaging app.
> He said the military commissar in Russia’s Khabarovsk region was removed, but that his dismissal would not affect the mobilisation.
> Russia’s first call to arms since World War II, declared on September 21, led to widespread discontent and drove thousands of men to flee abroad.
> The move was billed as enlisting those with military experience.
> 
> Meanwhile, criticism over Putin’s war in Ukraine has been growing at home.
> Some 2,000 people were arrested at anti-war protests in more than 30 towns and cities, with independent news outlets saying some detained were served summons to report at military enlistment offices.
> Russian officials usually supportive of the president also expressed anger over the mobilisation move, in a rare show of dissent.
> Among them, Valentina Matviyenko, the chairwoman of Russia’s upper house, the Federation Council, said mistakes made in sending call-up papers were “absolutely unacceptable”.
> The Russian military appeared increasingly in turmoil on Monday as it suffered a stinging setback in its strategic rail hub of Lyman, in the Donetsk region.
> Ukrainian forces claimed that their recapture of the major bastion sets the stage for further advances that could cut off thousands of Russian troops from all supplies as winter sets in.
> Ukraine’s lightning counteroffensive in September has put into question Russia’s ability to control the Donbas.
> Putin on September 30 proclaimed the annexation of four regions covering nearly a fifth of Ukraine, an area that includes Lyman.
> Kyiv and the West have condemned the move as a meaningless war tactic following referendums conducted during the occupation and without oversight.
> The announcement, which brings the annexed territories under Russia’s nuclear umbrella, constitutes the most serious escalation of the conflict since Moscow invaded Ukraine in February, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said.
> Al Jazeera’s Mohamed Vall, reporting from Moscow, said Russia’s lower parliament was expected on Monday to ratify a draft constitutional law allowing the admission of the new provinces, which Russia now calls “independent”.
> “Nobody expects any vote against these treaties,” Vall said, despite the reality on the field shifting in favour of Ukraine.
> In a separate development, Putin ally Ramzan Kadyrov, the leader of Russia’s southern Chechnya region, called for the use of “low-yield nuclear weapons” to defend Russia’s “territorial integrity”.
> The United States said it would respond decisively to any use of nuclear weapons and has warned Moscow of “catastrophic consequences”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thousands of mobilised Russians sent home, deemed unfit for duty
> 
> 
> Latest troop setback follows Ukraine’s recapture of Lyman in Donetsk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


Sending in protesters against mobilization to the frontlines is a very bad idea. I wouldn't be surprised they give up easily or turn their weapons over to the Ukrainians.

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> and the famine in Iran was also the result of Javanese attack , strangely it happened in British controlled area and Tehran
> 
> 
> usa figure for that engineered famine death toll at first was 15m and later moderated to 10-12m


Get off this thread to talk this topic. This is not Iran. You are welcome to exercise your freedom to open another thread. You have some interesting poitns, but you are being a parasite by bringing it up here.



-=virus=- said:


> Putin should just nuke these cuntbags and their American masters
> 
> peace can wait till that walking corpse, old man biden is either dead (soon) or out of office...
> 
> he's disgusting, this demented old corpse.. Hunter ka papa
> 
> View attachment 885738


Putin has put Russia back 20 years, and humliated it. And the best you can do is hope for some superhuman capability that Russia has that its kept hidden. You are pathetic. Open up another thread to show your disdain for any western leader. Here , your master is getting his butt handed to him (by his own Army btw)



-=virus=- said:


> ok.. so ?
> 
> what point were/are you trying to make here ?


Unless you are sitting in piss infested India, you are going to be a news article for making threats. Anybody above an IQ of 30 would have made that connection

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## Soldier35

PMC "Wagner" spoke in detail about the real situation in some sectors of the Ukrainian front. According to the soldiers, do not expect easy fighting in Ukraine, do not underestimate the enemy. Despite this, the Wagner soldiers manage to advance even when the number of Ukrainian troops is 2-3 more. Videos with subtitles






Two episodes of fighting in Ukraine filmed by Ukrainian soldiers. In the first part of the video, soldiers make a sortie in mobile groups on Humvee armored vehicles, you can see that one of them is hit. In the second episode, a Ukrainian tank is blown up by two mines and ambushed, according to the second version of the events of this episode, the soldiers dismounted fire into the void, as at the end they ask where the enemy is.






The Russian crew of an infantry fighting vehicle rescued the crew of another vehicle in Ukraine under enemy fire. At the time of the evacuation, the armored vehicle was hit, presumably by the Javelin ATGM, since the blow was from above, despite the damage, the BMP was able to leave the battlefield and evacuate people.






The use by Ukrainian soldiers of the famous in quotation marks M120-15 Molot mortar. The 120 mm Ukrainian M120-15 mortar manufactured by the Mayak plant turned out to be very unsuccessful, but it was accepted into service anyway. During its use from 2016 to 2021, as a result of explosions of Molot mortars, more than 20 Ukrainian soldiers died and about 45 more were injured, some called it cursed. The mortar has a mass of 210 kg and a firing range of 7100 m, a rate of fire of up to 15 rounds per minute, a mortar crew of 5 people.






Episode of the battle in Ukraine. A Ukrainian mobile group in a Hummer found a damaged Russian truck. After trying to check the car, they heard the sounds of Russian armored vehicles and tried to drive away, while the car was attacked by the Russian army.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578952820006727680

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## GOAT

Hope the Ukrainians can make more significant progress before winter sets in and Russia gains some breathing room for a desperately needed “reset”.

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## DF41

aziqbal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578867525462667265
> Traffic is moving again
> 
> Also trains are running but slowly
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578805579400679425




Hardly devastating to Russia /Crimea

Russia now got a *HUGE LAND CORRIDOR* all the way to Crimea

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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> No, the UK did not kill millions.
> ”Killing” is an activity.
> Depriving of food is not ”killing”, unless a person is kept locked up without food.
> 
> It is far from - collecting people , shipping them to extermination caps where they are gassed to death within 24 hours of arrival.
> 
> You better open a new thread on this subject if you want to continue arguing.



You're right, that's offtopic, so I will add just only thing: I prefer to die fastly in a gas room than slowly starving to death.

In the West (Spain), in the public education system is studied Nazi Germany / Italy / Japan or even USSR crimes, but it's not studied UK/USA crimes, it just doesnt exist.

It can be shocking for a Bengali than in the west official educational system their millions of starving to death just doesnt exists.



Beny Karachun said:


> If they knew the speed of the train a simple math equation and accurate coordinates could solve this.
> But I guess they used something more advanced.
> 
> Or it was a suicide bomber lol
> 
> 
> Hmmmm. Unfortunate.


But you need to know when the train depart and if it's delayed through path.

Without near spies or sat intel, it can there are errors.

But it worked perfectly on time.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Nobody cares - *in this thread…*


only for you that claimed England never did such things, just wanted to inform you how wrong you were


----------



## ZeGerman

DF41 said:


> Hardly devastating to Russia /Crimea
> 
> Russia now got a *HUGE LAND CORRIDOR* all the way to Crimea


Yes and we saw how great their truck based logistics are!! Especially over much larger distances, through partisan territory 🤣 

I Am expecting ukraine to squeeze the corridor shortly by the way

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## BHAN85

aziqbal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578867525462667265
> Traffic is moving again
> 
> Also trains are running but slowly
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578805579400679425







The truck driver is Russian from Krasnodar region.

Likely he didn't know a thing.

But he must be deceived in some way to delay the truck pass exactly with the train timing.


----------



## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> only for you that claimed England never did such things, just wanted to inform you how wrong you were











Second Boer War concentration camps - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org




Another interesting tidbit. 

The UK was also all for terrorbombing campaigns on german cities. 

Or selling opium to china to offset their silver trade. And fighting wars to continue basically being a druglord. 

So yeah…reality is more of a different shades of gray then simple black and white, hero/villain movie.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> he key word is "Partly" reopened.
> 
> Any damaged bridge can be Partly Reopened, literally until it had completely collapsed. That can mean literally anything, It said


replay partly re-opened because the other part is under water , it was claimed that the bridge remain closed for the next several month and russia cant supply from there 


jhungary said:


> Did it reopen to human traffic, ie you can walk across?
> Did it reopen to Road Traffic, ie you can drive across?
> Did it reopen to Railway Traffic, ie you can take a train across.


well if you looked at the video posted here you have saw it reopened to Train and Cars , about pedestrian i'm not sure there was no video of that.


jhungary said:


> And then there is a counterflow issue. and the frequency issue. How many cars or train are you allowing them to cross the bridge


by what i saw its continuous flow, for cars its slower for obvious reasons


jhungary said:


> This video is most likely a fake
> 
> This video is supposed shot at 19:00 (it said 13 hours after the "attack" the attack is on 06:03 local time), when sun set in Crimea yesterday at 18:45 and last light reported at 18:52. It won't get pitch black at 19: 00....Unless Crimea don't go thru Twilight
> 
> This video probably was shot from after mid-night. Probably during night maintenance when the Bridge have low to no traffic. Actually, I don't even know if this is the same bridge, it literally just shows a bridge with train across it. It could literally be any railway bridge.


come on , train from Moscow started to move toward that direction , and after it there is a video that show a passenger train passed it


----------



## Cash GK

They took 15 percent of Ukraine and they still losing the war. How jurk this western media is...I meet personally with so many Ukrainens they say different stories then this western propaganda.. no one going to win this war especially Europa n Ukrainen. I fear out fall of this war some of them I am going to write.
Ukrainen population gona be Radicalized especially those kids in war zoon. Go and study the Iraq Afghanistan Syria libiya wars and it effects on their population.
Waponization in european society. European n America supplying billions of dollars weapons to Ukrainen and those weapons will smuggled back to european plus EU has to buy more weapons from usa. Usa will make more money.
Europ is facing energy crisis. Winter is on the doorstep.
So stop these lies to people.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> View attachment 885752
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Russian army's shoddy equipment including 'useless' first-aid kits
> 
> 
> RUSSIAN soldiers have been complaining bitterly about their shoddy equipment, including flimsy helmets and useless first-aid kids. In a viral video, a soldier crushes a Russian helmet with just his…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.the-sun.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are a soldier, you know how bad is this, it kind of give you an insight on why the Russian did so badly in the field.


for clarification the lower part is ukrainian kit the upper part russian kit , the Russian one came with tourniquet and several tampon nothing more . but honestly i can understand those thing that look like airway , but you are trained for providing first aid what's your idea about the kit . tracheal tube ? fat chance any of those soldier can put it in place , i could not put it properly at first year of my emergency medicine course even at 3 year i failed sometimes and had to use more invasive measures like tracheotomy and they supposed to put it without laryngoscope , they at least could give them a combitube that can be put in place blindly and latter check which route is in trachea , by the way do you knew what is in those closed aluminium bags ? hemostat ? specially that nasal airway honestly i don't trust it with normal people who don't knew its contraindication

somebody on reddit described the content of both kit
For reference:



> Contents of the top pack:
> 
> 
> Esmarch (red) tourniquet
> Rolled gauze bandage (probably 2 in there, non-sterile)
> Metamizole Sodium pain killers (likely expired, also outdated medicine with bad side effects such as infection since it _decimates_ your body's WBC)
> Something that looks like it may be an iodine-based disinfectant.
> Medical booklet with basic operating procedures
> Heavy canvas medical pouch (Possibly wax-coated for weather-resistance... but, at best, that coating wore off a few years after this was made... in the 1980's.)
> 
> Contents of the bottom pack:
> 
> 
> Universal rubber tourniquet “OMEGA”
> "CAT" North American Rescue Tourniquet, 7th Gen (modern)
> EMT Utility Sheers
> Compressed sterile gauze (the green plastic squared packaging in the top-left)
> 28FR Nasal Airway kit (which can also be used to create a throat-based ventilator in an emergency situation if absolutely necessary)
> Sterile combat bandages (brown package with yellow lettering, bottom-right)
> 2x pairs of nitrile examination gloves (non-sterile, lavender colored, center-left)
> Pen for marking things (the 2nd most useful thing in an IFAK aside from hemostatic powder)
> Medical tape
> Weatherproof IFAK pouch (likely with MOLLE webbing on the back to attach it to other gear)
> The bottom kit is a composite Individual First Aid Kit. I say "composite" because it contains products both from Ukraine and the United States (the black tourniquet is American, the sheers might also be, but the rest is all Ukrainian, go Ukraine!)


and the verdict


> Honestly... Russians would be better just carrying the tourniquet in their pockets and bringing a dirty bandana for a bandage. This kit is worthless. HURRAY!
> 
> 
> This isn't all good though... the Ukrainian kit, while better, shows signs of having been *partially* resupplied/used and is *missing key items* altogether.
> 
> 
> Redundancy: The Omega "rubber tape" tourniquet and CAT emergency tourniquet are larger items and basically do the same thing.
> Since the pack is missing other items, it would have been better to just take the CAT, leave the OMEGA, and pack some form of large patch for puncture wounds/chest wounds (see long bit below about why everyone needs to carry a chest wound kit).
> 
> Missing components:
> Pain relief. Normally, you'd see a single-use analgesic injector-pen or maybe some ibuprofen in here for a combat unit.
> Clotting agent/Hemostatic powder of some kind. Very useful for small-to-medium sized lacerations and puncture wounds.
> Trauma patch/chest sealing kit
> really surprised about this one... normally there is going to be a flat "sticky" patch at the back of the kit to close off sucking chest wounds. HUGE mistake not to carry one.
> You can't close a wide puncture wound with a bandage, you need to pack it and seal it until a medic can look at it.
> Sucking chest wounds aren't usually immediately fatal (unless there is other damage to major internal organs) but they are 100% incapacitating. The affected soldier will be gasping for air, unable to carry weight, unable to run, and very unlikely to shoot accurately. Their blood oxygen level will plummet and lead to cognitive declines as well. Talking with a punctured lung is also challenging.
> BUT: with a patch and some TLC, allowing the lung to at least partially reinflate will temporarily return the soldier to around 50% combat effectiveness. They'll at least be able to move and carry their primary weapon, aim and shoot, and communicate. A soldier with a patched chest wound can survive and help get himself/herself to a medical unit, whereas someone with an unpatched sucking wound is going to have to be rescued by others.
> 
> Splint (SAM splints <-- commonly used by most NATO countries)
> Same as the above. It's not uncommon to see someone break an ankle or take a bullet fragment/ricochet in the lower leg and need a splint+wrap to stay mobile.
> Note: not all soldiers like carrying splints in smaller medical packs like this because they are, by far, the bulkiest common component you could pack.
> 
> Disinfectant of some kind. Alcohol wipes, Iodine, something...
> 
> Final scores:
> 
> 
> Ukrainian IFAK (as shown): 83/100 --> B. Would be 95/100 with hemostatic powder and a chest kit in place of one of the tourniquets.
> Russian Garbage: 5/100 -> literal shit. Go home _to hell_, you don't belong here _anywhere_.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> only for you that claimed England never did such things, just wanted to inform you how wrong you were


I claimed that England did not do anything similar to the Holocaust.

You lying about the number of people starving to death in Iran does not change that.
Claming that 12-15 million Iranians died of starvation during WWII, when the population of Iran was 12-15 million during WWII is ridiculous.



DF41 said:


> Hardly devastating to Russia /Crimea
> 
> Russia now got a *HUGE LAND CORRIDOR* all the way to Crimea


Russian logistics is based on railways, not on trucks.


----------



## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> They took 15 percent of Ukraine and they still losing the war. How jurk this western media is...I meet personally with so many Ukrainens they say different stories then this western propaganda.. no one going to win this war especially Europa n Ukrainen. I fear out fall of this war some of them I am going to write.
> Ukrainen population gona be Radicalized especially those kids in war zoon. Go and study the Iraq Afghanistan Syria libiya wars and it effects on their population.
> Waponization in european society. European n America supplying billions of dollars weapons to Ukrainen and those weapons will smuggled back to european plus EU has to buy more weapons from usa. Usa will make more money.
> Europ is facing energy crisis. Winter is on the doorstep.
> So stop these lies to people.


What did you expect: Western Europe and Ukrainians to act like p**sys and just welcome Putin and just give up because some theory on future generation being radicilized vs. a sure disaster for them to live under Putin (whoever can afford to leave has left Russia)? Your logic is one of a spineless whimp.

European GDPs are in Trillions, they can afford to spend tens of billions. Russia went into to take over Kiev, and install a Govt friendly to them. A 10 year old following Russia's propaganda and actions would know that. They have regressed from that goal to holding 15% , and on that they have to mobilize the entire country. So complete humiliation by virtue of its own actions.

May be you have been brainwashed too much: had Russia had the brains and used its energy (instead of brainwashing its sympathizers) , it would have gone in with a goal of protecting its supposed 'ethnic' population and just gone in to the 15% of land and would have some worldly prestige and retained more of its military and called it a day.

Instead it has degenerate people like you in a minority thinking its the victor when Kremlin's own insiders think that the Army brass should be put in front of a firing squad


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You lying about the number of people starving to death in Iran does not change that.
> Claming that 12-15 million Iranians died of starvation during WWII, when the population of Iran was 12-15 million during WWII is ridiculous.


that was made by usa at the time not us, we claimed a quarter of the population that will be half that


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> replay partly re-opened because the other part is under water , it was claimed that the bridge remain closed for the next several month and russia cant supply from there



I don't know who said the ENTIRE bridge is going to be closed for the next few months. What I said is they will need to take months to fix the damaged part, and it will disrupt traffic

Even so, I said without looking at the Bridge personally, that remain my guess.


Hack-Hook said:


> well if you looked at the video posted here you have saw it reopened to Train and Cars , about pedestrian i'm not sure there was no video of that.



Again, it said "Partially" open, by definition, it could mean anything.



Hack-Hook said:


> by what i saw its continuous flow, for cars its slower for obvious reasons
> 
> come on , train from Moscow started to move toward that direction , and after it there is a video that show a passenger train passed it


Say if the traffic is counterflow, by that definition, it will be slowed to half because you are essentially using 1 lane for both direction, logic said you will half the efficiency, because you can only allow 1 lane to go thru.

And the video did not show a passenger train passed it, first of all, that's a freight train, second of all, as I point out, that video probably shot in midnight as there are no way it will get dark that quick, and finally, that stretch of bridge could be anywhere, without landmark, we cannot say for sure that is Crimea Bridge.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> that was made by usa at the time not us, we claimed a quarter of the population that will be half that


You claimed that: ”usa figure for that engineered famine death toll at first was 15m and later moderated to 10-12m”.

The US figure is for population, not death toll.






You have a single writer that claims 25% of that died, while statistics show larger than usual population growth.

The writer appears to be yet another case of an Islamist whining about being persecuted claiming millions of deaths without basis in facts.


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> for clarification the lower part is ukrainian kit the upper part russian kit , the Russian one came with tourniquet and several tampon nothing more . but honestly i can understand those thing that look like airway , but you are trained for providing first aid what's your idea about the kit . tracheal tube ? fat chance any of those soldier can put it in place , i could not put it properly at first year of my emergency medicine course even at 3 year i failed sometimes and had to use more invasive measures like tracheotomy and they supposed to put it without laryngoscope , they at least could give them a combitube that can be put in place blindly and latter check which route is in trachea , by the way do you knew what is in those closed aluminium bags ? hemostat ? specially that nasal airway honestly i don't trust it with normal people who don't knew its contraindication
> 
> somebody on reddit described the content of both kit
> For reference:
> 
> 
> and the verdict


Again, you are using a doctor point of view on frontline medical need.

As I pointed out before. The goal for a combat medic is to keep that person alive until he/she can reach medical care, forget about treating him/her on site, forget about finding permanent fix, the role for Combat Medic is not to play doctor, it is sustained life until that person can be looked at. So doctor in the rear can save him/her.

Which mean Medic primarily focus is ABC, Airway, Breathing and Circulation, because that is the basic to keep a person alive. For a combat medic, it's basically IV, and patch hole. You keep that guy breathing, try to stop the bleeding, and keep the fluid float coming. That way he/she can last til some see them. That is why in the field, you would use torniquet to shut off an arm circulation in order to save someone from bleeding, even if that mean he/she will lose the arm.

Which mean an IFAK kit would basically gear toward treating ABC and nothing else. So conventionally, you will have Gauze, Torniquet, Clotting Agent, IV needle, Scissors and Morphine or Opioid.

If you look at the Russian kit, it has what? A belt that acted mostly as Torniquet and roll of bandage/gauze a menu and some whip? It didn't even come with the scissor to cut the gauze; now well would you think that would work in frontline situation?? You are there to perform live saving operation, can you save life on that issue? You said you were a doctor? You tell me. Can you stop bleeding and keep airway open on those issue? 

Also, Medic is trained extensively on tracheal tube by the way, because that guaranteed the continue flowing of air and circulation.

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> I don't know who said the ENTIRE bridge is going to be closed for the next few months. What I said is they will need to take months to fix the damaged part, and it will disrupt traffic
> 
> Even so, I said without looking at the Bridge personally, that remain my guess.
> 
> 
> Again, it said "Partially" open, by definition, it could mean anything.
> 
> 
> Say if the traffic is counterflow, by that definition, it will be slowed to half because you are essentially using 1 lane for both direction, logic said you will half the efficiency, because you can only allow 1 lane to go thru.
> 
> And the video did not show a passenger train passed it, first of all, that's a freight train, second of all, as I point out, that video probably shot in midnight as there are no way it will get dark that quick, and finally, that stretch of bridge could be anywhere, without landmark, we cannot say for sure that is Crimea Bridge.



The Russians idea of a structural integrity check will be to order a conscript to drive a tank over it. If it doesn’t disappear into the sea , it’s fine.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> The Russians idea of a structural integrity check will be to order a conscript to drive a tank over it. If it doesn’t disappear into the sea , it’s fine.


Because in Soviet Russia, you don't fix the bridge, the bridge fixes you......

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## That Guy

ziaulislam said:


> There is no objective evidence to that claim just constant propoganda. Not saying he would have but there is no way to tell.
> 
> One thing is undisputed without Hitler British would have never left Asia
> 
> Hitler support both Japs and rebel Indians
> Noone knows what Hitler would have done. After all he attacked his alley in Russia as well. He could have turned against Asians sure possible..but at time of conflict that wasn't the case as you pointed out
> 
> 
> They killed far more..this is just one example
> The starvation was deblierate so that Japs don't get hold of "grain"
> I don't see how this is different then Jews genocide can someone tell me how this is different?????
> You have to say by making common wealth they were very successful in erasing their misdeed and genocides
> 
> Same way America has erased the crime of boiling pregnant women to dust in heroshoma negasaki..that too when war was over in European front and Japs were only limited to mainland Japan
> 
> 
> Obviously a sobotage.
> 
> Let see what will Russia do now.
> 
> Ukriane has decided it will take Crimea as well.
> 
> Will Russia escalate or nor


Hitler literally wrote a book about this, it's called mein kampf.

We also know from his various speeches and testimonies from those close to him.

There are a lot of scholarly sources out there that you can look at.

This isn't some grand mystery, it's all very well researched and documented.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Because in Soviet Russia, you don't fix the bridge, the bridge fixes you......


With this bridge incident Shoigu days are numbered. Putin does not trust him anymore. Gerasimov will be next on target list. Putin has just replaced the commander of Ukraine war campaign. He gives the investigation and future protection of the bridge to FSB. Russia military is out. In worst case scenario Russia spy agency will take over the army.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578714525867859969

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> With this bridge incident Shoigu days are numbered. Putin does not trust him anymore. Gerasimov will be next on target list. Putin has just replaced the commander of Ukraine war campaign. He gives the investigation and future protection of the bridge to FSB. Russia military is out. In worst case scenario Russia spy agency will take over the army.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578714525867859969


Shoigu is a civilian, he doesn't have much connection to the military except for the rank that he comes with, Gerasimov is another matter, he is well connected, if Putin try to remove him, Gerasimov will most likely start a coup. Bear in mind we expect the National Guard (Which is what holding Russia together now) is subpar than even to the Military. I don't think Putin would have much Military support now that he blames everything on them, and I think Putin knows that. I don't think he will further alienate himself from the Military. 

In a FSB v Military fight, Military is going to win with sheer brute force.....No doubt about that.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Shoigu is a civilian, he doesn't have much connection to the military except for the rank that he comes with, Gerasimov is another matter, he is well connected, if Putin try to remove him, Gerasimov will most likely start a coup. Bear in mind we expect the National Guard (Which is what holding Russia together now) is subpar than even to the Military. I don't think Putin would have much Military support now that he blames everything on them, and I think Putin knows that. I don't think he will further alienate himself from the Military.
> 
> In a FSB v Military fight, Military is going to win with sheer brute force.....No doubt about that.


Ok well the military has bigger gun. Putin is really in deep shit. Will be interesting in next days and weeks the internal fights. The facist wagner group is another black sheep. The Spenaz arrested the propaganda chief of the Wagner. What’s going on here? They failed to recruit enough hooligans, rapists, ex prison inmates to the front?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577801789612736512

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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> With this bridge incident Shoigu days are numbered. Putin does not trust him anymore. Gerasimov will be next on target list. Putin has just replaced the commander of Ukraine war campaign. He gives the investigation and future protection of the bridge to FSB. Russia military is out. In worst case scenario Russia spy agency will take over the army.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578714525867859969


I dont see the big deal in the bridge blast when Western weapons shipment and supplies are smuggled through Ukraine borders without stop everyday.

It's just Russia intel gathering is a big shit.

They must have webcams of 0.7 megapixels in their satellites or I dont know, something very crappy.

If Russia could stop the continuous flux of Western shipments through Ukraine border, war would have ended months ago.

But they can't do it.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Ok well the military has bigger gun. Putin is really in deep shit. Will be interesting in next days and weeks the internal fights. The facist wagner group is another black sheep. The Spenaz arrested the propaganda chief of the Wagner. What’s going on here?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577801789612736512


Putin increasingly act like D J Trump on his last day of presidency, completely distrust his own Military and rely on side channel and militia like Proud Boy or Oath Keeper to do his bidding.

Putin was a spy, and that inheritably mean he won't trust anyone that wasn't a fellow spy, even so that trust level is earned so people who he closes to are the only one that he trusts, everyone else is a throwaway. 

It is quite clear since 2018 when Putin put everything internal into National Guard, it's his way to separate the military and MVD, he don't trust the military, he only trust the FSB and other internal service, say what you may, but he needed MVD to survive because they are the one that is guarding Russia. 

It is also evidently shown why Russian Military is being degraded to this term, because Putin didn't really do anything on the Military, he freeze their pay for 4 years, did not give them enough vacation time, did not follow thru with Training and Exercise. I mean can you even tell me when is the last Russian Military exercise beside the one that just done with China and India and CAR country?

If things go the way it goes and Putin keep expanding the power of MVD or FSB, he is going to stare down the barrel of a gun from Russian Military.

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## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> I dont see the big deal in the bridge blast when Western weapons shipment and supplies are smuggled through Ukraine borders without stop everyday.
> 
> It's just Russia intel gathering is a big shit.
> 
> They must have webcams of 0.7 megapixels in their satellites or I dont know, something very crappy.
> 
> If Russia could stop the continuous flux of Western shipments through Ukraine border, war would have ended months ago.
> 
> But they can't do it.


The big issue of the blast is Crimea Bridge is one of the most well-guarded pieces of real estate in Russia. If the Ukrainian can hit that, what CAN'T they hit?

Which mean from now on, Russia has to beef up every strategic important roadway and railway, which mean more troop to guard those area connected to Ukraine. Rostov, Belgorod, Kursk, Voronezh, Volgograd, all these places have to beef up security, that would drain the troop deposition when they are almost all engaging in Ukraine right now. 

Another issue is the psychological aspect, Crimea were considered Russian Territories by Russian since 2014, unlike the newly annexed territories, an attack on this region means Ukraine will not care about the annexation, this will shake the boots of people who live in Crimea, because you will start to think were they really worth anything to the Russian? One question would be asked over and over again by the Crimean "Why are we not protected" On the other hand, this also mean there are insurgent operating on Crimea and Russia, which will go deep into a divided issue toward their population, now everyone will suspect everyone else as saboteur. It will keep people on their heels.

And finally, what's the big deal? This is the kind of deep strike any intelligence apparatus dream for. If there are one mission in your life as an intelligence operator, this is the kind of mission you want to pull off. And as they say, Attacking Kerch bridge is fantastic, attacking the bridge on Putin birthday is brilliant. This is a giant middle finger to Putin and his establishment.

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## sammuel

aziqbal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578867525462667265



I agree with you that the driver probably did not know about the bomb.

If he was in fact trying to cause damage he would drive on the left lane , so to damage the other bridge , or at least move to the middle of the road , to cause the most damage .

But the clip before the explosion clearly shows he is driving on the right lane.

~


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## DF41

DF41 said:


> Russia now got a *HUGE LAND CORRIDOR* all the way to Crimea



Russia now got a *HUGE LAND CORRIDOR* all the way to Crimea







*AND 

**** = t dot me*

: https://****/Slavyangrad/12713

🥁🥁🥁😘😘😘

Slavyangrad:
The Crimea Bridge is a marvel of engineering.

The Russian Ministry of Transport says the first trains on the bridge will be back in business THIS EVENING - after 8 pm.

The railway part of the bridge is extremely resistant. And structurally, the bridge is beyond rock solid. When I crossed it nearly four years ago, back to back, I had some excellent discussions in Kerch and looked at some structural maps.

As for the roadway, they just need to replace the sections damaged by the blast.

The logistics of moving military equipment and supply of Crimea will NOT be affected.

Crimea 24:

❗️Five trains are planned to be sent from Crimea today according to the schedule, the carrier company said

🚂 No. 28 Simferopol - Moscow leaves at 17:10
🚂 No. 8 Sevastopol - St. Petersburg departs at 17:15
🚂 No. 166 Simferopol - Moscow leaves at 20:00
🚂 No. 426 Simferopol - Kislovodsk leaves at 20:30
🚂 No. 174 Evpatoria - Moscow departs at 22:20

https://****/dva_majors/3234

https://****/Slavyangrad/12783 

🥁🥁🥁

Crimean Bridge Attack Failed It’s Strategic Objectives; Tactics Reveal Outside Technical Support 


The attack on the Crimean bridge revealed as a complex multi-layered operation performed by the collective West, but there are nuances. Obviously, the level of damage from the attack is not as anticipated, which means that both Kiev and Brussels could have their heads blown off 

We have already written earlier that it was impossible to synchronise in time and place the moment of blowing up a heavy goods vehicle and driving a train with fuel and lubricants by it without using western intelligence facilities (including satellite reconnaissance) and target designation. This is a complex operation that had been planned for a long time. However, we dare to suggest that it did not achieve its original objectives.

At this point, it is quite obvious that at least railway communication over the bridge will be restored within the next 24 hours, and therefore the main strategic goal - cutting off the supply lines of the Kherson group - was not achieved by the organizers of the terrorist attack. Moreover, if we consider the location of the explosion, we realize that it occurred a few hundred metres from the Crimean "Achilles' heel" - the arch of the bridge. This is the place where three types of traffic intersect: shipping, railroad and automobile, and this is where the railroad string of the bridge closely adjoins the automobile one. 

Obviously, this was the point where it was intended to collapse all the spans, thereby blocking the exit from the Sea of Azov. However, something went wrong and the tankers with the car ended up at the same point somewhat earlier, or the calculation was not entirely accurate. So today Kiev and the Western handlers have only solved the problem of the psychological effect of the strike, but not the strategic one.

And finally: note that all the posters and stamps now being replicated by Zelensky's office show the explosion in the vicinity of the arch. 

Apparently, Kiev had only one opportunity to carry out such an attack on the bridge, and only a partial effect was achieved, the resonance and consequences of which will be levelled in the coming days.

Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
https://****/+2pzG51JUhlYxZmQx
@Slavyangrad / SLG Spetsnaz Detachment (Inna&P)

Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community


https://****/loordofwar/51067 

🥁🥁🥁😘😘😘

🇷🇺⚡️Ministry of Transport of the Russian Federation: Permission has been received for the movement of trains along the Crimean bridge.

In the video, the first test train on the railway track was successful.



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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> I dont see the big deal in the bridge blast when Western weapons shipment and supplies are smuggled through Ukraine borders without stop everyday.
> 
> It's just Russia intel gathering is a big shit.
> 
> They must have webcams of 0.7 megapixels in their satellites or I dont know, something very crappy.
> 
> If Russia could stop the continuous flux of Western shipments through Ukraine border, war would have ended months ago.
> 
> But they can't do it.


Oh looks like my old commodore 64. great time. the sanctions now in place has pushed Russia automobile 50y back in time of USSR. If they can even make any sizeable number of cars at all. As for Russia computers they belong to museums.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> If you look at the Russian kit, it has what? A belt that acted mostly as Torniquet and roll of bandage/gauze a menu and some whip? It didn't even come with the scissor to cut the gauze; now well would you think that would work in frontline situation?? You are there to perform live saving operation, can you save life on that issue? You said you were a doctor? You tell me. Can you stop bleeding and keep airway open on those issue?


i probably open those band and pack them inside the wound and as there is nothing to cover them use that tourniquet to make a pressure on the gauze given that the wound is in a place that i can\t use that tourniquet to stop bleeding and always there is the good old fashioned technique of wrap the bands above the wound and use a thee branch to tighten it , that probably (more toward certainly ) **** up the limb but can stop bleeding and save life, keep opening the airway with that kit , well i call you and ask you to do that , its above my capabilities if i have more patient to tend beside the guy , if he is my only patient i'll try to use maneuver like jaw thrust or if there is no concern about neck trauma 

honestly stop bleeding is important and you must do that after securing the airway but my concerns with that kit is not stop bleeding there is so many way to stop bleeding and the first one we are taught is using direct pressure by your hand , there are far more serious problem that the kit won't offer a solution for , do you see any equipment for treating chest wound there , i don't concern about the lack of presence of airway or tracheal tube , they have no place in the soldier kits , they must be present in the equipment of medics there , i liked to have some splint there at least one for ankle in case of ankle sprain . some disinfectant .some easier way to stop bleeding



jhungary said:


> If you look at the Russian kit, it has what? A belt that acted mostly as Torniquet and roll of bandage/gauze a menu and some whip? It didn't even come with the scissor to cut the gauze; now well would you think that would work in frontline situation?? You are there to perform live saving operation, can you save life on that issue? You said you were a doctor? You tell me. Can you stop bleeding and keep airway open on those issue?


i probably open those band and pack them inside the wound and as there is nothing to cover them use that tourniquet to make a pressure on the gauze given that the wound is in a place that i can\t use that tourniquet to stop bleeding and always there is the good old fashioned technique of wrap the bands above the wound and use a thee branch to tighten it , that probably (more toward certainly ) **** up the limb but can stop bleeding and save life, keep opening the airway with that kit , well i call you and ask you to do that , its above my capabilities if i have more patient to tend beside the guy , if he is my only patient i'll try to use maneuver like jaw thrust or if there is no concern about neck trauma 

honestly stop bleeding is important and you must do that after securing the airway but my concerns with that kit is not stop bleeding there is so many way to stop bleeding and the first one we are taught is using direct pressure by your hand , there are far more serious problem that the kit won't offer a solution for , do you see any equipment for treating chest wound there , i don't concern about the lack of presence of airway or tracheal tube , they have no place in the soldier kits , they must be present in the equipment of medics there , i liked to have some splint there at least one for ankle in case of ankle sprain . some disinfectant .some easier way to stop bleeding


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## sammuel

Ukrainian military liberated Stelmahivka of Luhansk region

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> i probably open those band and pack them inside the wound and as there is nothing to cover them use that tourniquet to make a pressure on the gauze given that the wound is in a place that i can\t use that tourniquet to stop bleeding and always there is the good old fashioned technique of wrap the bands above the wound and use a thee branch to tighten it , that probably (more toward certainly ) **** up the limb but can stop bleeding and save life, keep opening the airway with that kit , well i call you and ask you to do that , its above my capabilities if i have more patient to tend beside the guy , if he is my only patient i'll try to use maneuver like jaw thrust or if there is no concern about neck trauma
> 
> honestly stop bleeding is important and you must do that after securing the airway but my concerns with that kit is not stop bleeding there is so many way to stop bleeding and the first one we are taught is using direct pressure by your hand , there are far more serious problem that the kit won't offer a solution for , do you see any equipment for treating chest wound there , i don't concern about the lack of presence of airway or tracheal tube , they have no place in the soldier kits , they must be present in the equipment of medics there , i liked to have some splint there at least one for ankle in case of ankle sprain . some disinfectant .some easier way to stop bleeding
> 
> 
> i probably open those band and pack them inside the wound and as there is nothing to cover them use that tourniquet to make a pressure on the gauze given that the wound is in a place that i can\t use that tourniquet to stop bleeding and always there is the good old fashioned technique of wrap the bands above the wound and use a thee branch to tighten it , that probably (more toward certainly ) **** up the limb but can stop bleeding and save life, keep opening the airway with that kit , well i call you and ask you to do that , its above my capabilities if i have more patient to tend beside the guy , if he is my only patient i'll try to use maneuver like jaw thrust or if there is no concern about neck trauma
> 
> honestly stop bleeding is important and you must do that after securing the airway but my concerns with that kit is not stop bleeding there is so many way to stop bleeding and the first one we are taught is using direct pressure by your hand , there are far more serious problem that the kit won't offer a solution for , do you see any equipment for treating chest wound there , i don't concern about the lack of presence of airway or tracheal tube , they have no place in the soldier kits , they must be present in the equipment of medics there , i liked to have some splint there at least one for ankle in case of ankle sprain . some disinfectant .some easier way to stop bleeding


Well, this is an IFAK kit not a medic go-bag, it won't have chest clamp, depression needle or valve or stuff that open the chest for.

On the other hand, at this level, bleeding is not really a big concern depends on how deep your wound are and how much you bled. Normall you bleed out in around 45 minutes to 1 hour, that's more than reasonable time to send you to the rear via chopper, if you got IV put into you, you are going to last longer. Unless it's like Black Hawk down when evac is not available, then it started to be a problem, but then if you tear your artery and you cant evac, pretty much nothing you can do even with a Medic or even a 18D with his go-bag.

On the other hand, these Russian IFAK kit weren't really up to the job there, because it lacks basic item that you can do to try to prolong life, sure, if you made do and improvise, you may get more value for the kit, but it was not supposed to, and you can't expect people who are using these kit necessarily know what they are doing. And you only have 1 medic per platoon, and he/she have to take care of all 42 men, you will need to use those IFAK kit if you want most of your men come home.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Sanna Marin response on what Putin Off Ramp will be just went viral.....



Finnish PM Sanna Marin's blunt solution for ending the war in Ukraine is truly iconic




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578308226709590017

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

Soldier35 said:


> The Russian crew of an infantry fighting vehicle rescued the crew of another vehicle in Ukraine under enemy fire. At the time of the evacuation, the armored vehicle was hit, presumably by the Javelin ATGM, since the blow was from above, despite the damage, the BMP was able to leave the battlefield and evacuate people.



This video was originally passed off as an attack on ukranian solider on top of the BMP s and now you are saying it was Russian -

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578992871813705729


Ali_Baba said:


> This video was originally passed off as an attack on ukranian solider on top of the BMP s and now you are saying it was Russian -



he's refering to that video


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577456465526362113

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Viet said:


> Oh looks like my old commodore 64. great time. the sanctions now in place has pushed Russia automobile 50y back in time of USSR. If they can even make any sizeable number of cars at all. As for Russia computers they belong to museums.


This image is a little misleading. I am no fan of Russia but the computer in the second photo is a POSITRON which was a soviet era computer aimed for schools. I know this because we had one such computer in our IT lab in Pakistan. 

Russia Military computers are supplied by a handful of companies the most prominent of which are ADK & Elbrus:







Let's make fun of Russia's epic fails in Ukraine, but please don't spread too misinformation. 

@Jango

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Putin carousel runs fast. army general Sergej Surowikin, “hero of Russia”, replaced Alexander Dwornikow, the butcher of Syria.

Surowikin should turn the tide of the war.
mission impossible.






Der „Schlächter von Syrien“, Alexander Dwornikow (l.) und sein Nachfolger als Chef der russischen Truppen in der Ukraine, Sergey Surowikin

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## kingQamaR

DF41 said:


> Russia now got a *HUGE LAND CORRIDOR* all the way to Crimea
> 
> 
> View attachment 885847
> 
> 
> *AND
> 
> **** = t dot me*
> 
> : https://****/Slavyangrad/12713
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁😘😘😘
> 
> Slavyangrad:
> The Crimea Bridge is a marvel of engineering.
> 
> The Russian Ministry of Transport says the first trains on the bridge will be back in business THIS EVENING - after 8 pm.
> 
> The railway part of the bridge is extremely resistant. And structurally, the bridge is beyond rock solid. When I crossed it nearly four years ago, back to back, I had some excellent discussions in Kerch and looked at some structural maps.
> 
> As for the roadway, they just need to replace the sections damaged by the blast.
> 
> The logistics of moving military equipment and supply of Crimea will NOT be affected.
> 
> Crimea 24:
> 
> ❗️Five trains are planned to be sent from Crimea today according to the schedule, the carrier company said
> 
> 🚂 No. 28 Simferopol - Moscow leaves at 17:10
> 🚂 No. 8 Sevastopol - St. Petersburg departs at 17:15
> 🚂 No. 166 Simferopol - Moscow leaves at 20:00
> 🚂 No. 426 Simferopol - Kislovodsk leaves at 20:30
> 🚂 No. 174 Evpatoria - Moscow departs at 22:20
> 
> https://****/dva_majors/3234
> 
> https://****/Slavyangrad/12783
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁
> 
> Crimean Bridge Attack Failed It’s Strategic Objectives; Tactics Reveal Outside Technical Support
> 
> 
> The attack on the Crimean bridge revealed as a complex multi-layered operation performed by the collective West, but there are nuances. Obviously, the level of damage from the attack is not as anticipated, which means that both Kiev and Brussels could have their heads blown off
> 
> We have already written earlier that it was impossible to synchronise in time and place the moment of blowing up a heavy goods vehicle and driving a train with fuel and lubricants by it without using western intelligence facilities (including satellite reconnaissance) and target designation. This is a complex operation that had been planned for a long time. However, we dare to suggest that it did not achieve its original objectives.
> 
> At this point, it is quite obvious that at least railway communication over the bridge will be restored within the next 24 hours, and therefore the main strategic goal - cutting off the supply lines of the Kherson group - was not achieved by the organizers of the terrorist attack. Moreover, if we consider the location of the explosion, we realize that it occurred a few hundred metres from the Crimean "Achilles' heel" - the arch of the bridge. This is the place where three types of traffic intersect: shipping, railroad and automobile, and this is where the railroad string of the bridge closely adjoins the automobile one.
> 
> Obviously, this was the point where it was intended to collapse all the spans, thereby blocking the exit from the Sea of Azov. However, something went wrong and the tankers with the car ended up at the same point somewhat earlier, or the calculation was not entirely accurate. So today Kiev and the Western handlers have only solved the problem of the psychological effect of the strike, but not the strategic one.
> 
> And finally: note that all the posters and stamps now being replicated by Zelensky's office show the explosion in the vicinity of the arch.
> 
> Apparently, Kiev had only one opportunity to carry out such an attack on the bridge, and only a partial effect was achieved, the resonance and consequences of which will be levelled in the coming days.
> 
> Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
> https://****/+2pzG51JUhlYxZmQx
> @Slavyangrad / SLG Spetsnaz Detachment (Inna&P)
> 
> Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community
> 
> 
> https://****/loordofwar/51067
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁😘😘😘
> 
> 🇷🇺⚡️Ministry of Transport of the Russian Federation: Permission has been received for the movement of trains along the Crimean bridge.
> 
> In the video, the first test train on the railway track was successful.
> 
> 
> 
> ⚡️ Follow our channel
> ⚡️ Donate



Putin cannot hold on to all the territories that he has grabbed this time! Russia does not have the resources, will power, and legitimacy to retain the stolen Ukrainian land!


----------



## Titanium100

Seems like war has escalated with the Mobilization and Ramazan Kadirov sending in alot of re-enforcement including Ukriane's offensive.. Things seems to be heating. But the explosion of the bridge is stragetic victory for Ukriane and so far I acknowledge the great performance of Ukraine..

Slava Ukraini


----------



## Ali_Baba

The billion dollar question is - can the Crimean bridge still be used to transport heavy military equipment, sending over light cars as a piece of propaganda is one thing but can you send over ammunition supplies, heavy trucks, tanks, fuel ???


*Is the Crimean bridge now out of this war militarily ?????*

There is no real proof that the railway line is operational - the videos show have been debunked as fake propaganda already...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

DF41 said:


> Russia now got a *HUGE LAND CORRIDOR* all the way to Crimea
> 
> 
> View attachment 885847
> 
> 
> *AND
> 
> **** = t dot me*
> 
> : https://****/Slavyangrad/12713
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁😘😘😘
> 
> Slavyangrad:
> The Crimea Bridge is a marvel of engineering.
> 
> The Russian Ministry of Transport says the first trains on the bridge will be back in business THIS EVENING - after 8 pm.
> 
> The railway part of the bridge is extremely resistant. And structurally, the bridge is beyond rock solid. When I crossed it nearly four years ago, back to back, I had some excellent discussions in Kerch and looked at some structural maps.
> 
> As for the roadway, they just need to replace the sections damaged by the blast.
> 
> The logistics of moving military equipment and supply of Crimea will NOT be affected.
> 
> Crimea 24:
> 
> ❗️Five trains are planned to be sent from Crimea today according to the schedule, the carrier company said
> 
> 🚂 No. 28 Simferopol - Moscow leaves at 17:10
> 🚂 No. 8 Sevastopol - St. Petersburg departs at 17:15
> 🚂 No. 166 Simferopol - Moscow leaves at 20:00
> 🚂 No. 426 Simferopol - Kislovodsk leaves at 20:30
> 🚂 No. 174 Evpatoria - Moscow departs at 22:20
> 
> https://****/dva_majors/3234
> 
> https://****/Slavyangrad/12783
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁
> 
> Crimean Bridge Attack Failed It’s Strategic Objectives; Tactics Reveal Outside Technical Support
> 
> 
> The attack on the Crimean bridge revealed as a complex multi-layered operation performed by the collective West, but there are nuances. Obviously, the level of damage from the attack is not as anticipated, which means that both Kiev and Brussels could have their heads blown off
> 
> We have already written earlier that it was impossible to synchronise in time and place the moment of blowing up a heavy goods vehicle and driving a train with fuel and lubricants by it without using western intelligence facilities (including satellite reconnaissance) and target designation. This is a complex operation that had been planned for a long time. However, we dare to suggest that it did not achieve its original objectives.
> 
> At this point, it is quite obvious that at least railway communication over the bridge will be restored within the next 24 hours, and therefore the main strategic goal - cutting off the supply lines of the Kherson group - was not achieved by the organizers of the terrorist attack. Moreover, if we consider the location of the explosion, we realize that it occurred a few hundred metres from the Crimean "Achilles' heel" - the arch of the bridge. This is the place where three types of traffic intersect: shipping, railroad and automobile, and this is where the railroad string of the bridge closely adjoins the automobile one.
> 
> Obviously, this was the point where it was intended to collapse all the spans, thereby blocking the exit from the Sea of Azov. However, something went wrong and the tankers with the car ended up at the same point somewhat earlier, or the calculation was not entirely accurate. So today Kiev and the Western handlers have only solved the problem of the psychological effect of the strike, but not the strategic one.
> 
> And finally: note that all the posters and stamps now being replicated by Zelensky's office show the explosion in the vicinity of the arch.
> 
> Apparently, Kiev had only one opportunity to carry out such an attack on the bridge, and only a partial effect was achieved, the resonance and consequences of which will be levelled in the coming days.
> 
> Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
> https://****/+2pzG51JUhlYxZmQx
> @Slavyangrad / SLG Spetsnaz Detachment (Inna&P)
> 
> Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community
> 
> 
> https://****/loordofwar/51067
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁😘😘😘
> 
> 🇷🇺⚡️Ministry of Transport of the Russian Federation: Permission has been received for the movement of trains along the Crimean bridge.
> 
> In the video, the first test train on the railway track was successful.
> 
> 
> 
> ⚡️ Follow our channel
> ⚡️ Donate



That the explosion happened in the first place indicates lack of security.
Russia must now carefully search through all cars and trains passing the bridge and *THAT* will affect throughput.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579047943927377920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579046719521984512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578841046485987328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579039067232083969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578995937384755201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578994685632466945


Spoiler: graphic






https://twitter.com/worldonalert/status/1579044216784969728?s=20&t=Q906hTl_n83smIV9F8IxJQ








https://twitter.com/ragnarbjartur/status/1578793396864700416?s=20&t=-myJjJ4K28m4RNGCtHEARQ

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579072327119040513

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579070929799622658

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579049429922766848

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> The billion dollar question is - can the Crimean bridge still be used to transport heavy military equipment, sending over light cars as a piece of propaganda is one thing but can you send over ammunition supplies, heavy trucks, tanks, fuel ???
> 
> 
> *Is the Crimean bridge now out of this war militarily ?????*
> 
> There is no real proof that the railway line is operational - the videos show have been debunked as fake propaganda already...


From the satellite image, I would say, yes, however the capacity is reduced by half.
Half of roadway is broken in 250m in length.
Half of railway is burned thru about the same length.






Die beschädigte Krim-Brücke am 8. Oktober Bild: AP

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579048989840011265


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579089125105635329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579068971541622785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579044686123388931

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579057363348488192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579089898182934528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579062846264324096

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579062267098075136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579062326862708736


Viet said:


> Oh looks like my old commodore 64. great time. the sanctions now in place has pushed Russia automobile 50y back in time of USSR. If they can even make any sizeable number of cars at all. As for Russia computers they belong to museums.











Samsung and Apple left Russia. China's phone brands filled the gap


It took mere months for China's top phone makers to seize the market share Apple and Samsung left behind.




fortune.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579060110638608384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579053911381794816


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579102549655027718


----------



## sammuel

Still cant figure how they pulled that off.

You can clearly see the truck is moving on the right lane , which makes me think that the driver was unaware of the bomb. If it was intentional , he would drive on the left lane ( to damage the other runway ) or in the middle of the road , to do the most damage.

But what ruins my theory , is the timing of the explosion at the exact time the train passed.

Just don't don't see how they could calculate the exact time a truck driver would be on the bridge and pass the train. That would be so much easier to pull off if the driver was actually the one pushing the button .

Still a mystery.

Any suggestions ?

~


----------



## Viet

DF41 said:


> Russia now got a *HUGE LAND CORRIDOR* all the way to Crimea
> 
> 
> View attachment 885847
> 
> 
> *AND
> 
> **** = t dot me*
> 
> : https://****/Slavyangrad/12713
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁😘😘😘
> 
> Slavyangrad:
> The Crimea Bridge is a marvel of engineering.
> 
> The Russian Ministry of Transport says the first trains on the bridge will be back in business THIS EVENING - after 8 pm.
> 
> The railway part of the bridge is extremely resistant. And structurally, the bridge is beyond rock solid. When I crossed it nearly four years ago, back to back, I had some excellent discussions in Kerch and looked at some structural maps.
> 
> As for the roadway, they just need to replace the sections damaged by the blast.
> 
> The logistics of moving military equipment and supply of Crimea will NOT be affected.
> 
> Crimea 24:
> 
> ❗️Five trains are planned to be sent from Crimea today according to the schedule, the carrier company said
> 
> 🚂 No. 28 Simferopol - Moscow leaves at 17:10
> 🚂 No. 8 Sevastopol - St. Petersburg departs at 17:15
> 🚂 No. 166 Simferopol - Moscow leaves at 20:00
> 🚂 No. 426 Simferopol - Kislovodsk leaves at 20:30
> 🚂 No. 174 Evpatoria - Moscow departs at 22:20
> 
> https://****/dva_majors/3234
> 
> https://****/Slavyangrad/12783
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁
> 
> Crimean Bridge Attack Failed It’s Strategic Objectives; Tactics Reveal Outside Technical Support
> 
> 
> The attack on the Crimean bridge revealed as a complex multi-layered operation performed by the collective West, but there are nuances. Obviously, the level of damage from the attack is not as anticipated, which means that both Kiev and Brussels could have their heads blown off
> 
> We have already written earlier that it was impossible to synchronise in time and place the moment of blowing up a heavy goods vehicle and driving a train with fuel and lubricants by it without using western intelligence facilities (including satellite reconnaissance) and target designation. This is a complex operation that had been planned for a long time. However, we dare to suggest that it did not achieve its original objectives.
> 
> At this point, it is quite obvious that at least railway communication over the bridge will be restored within the next 24 hours, and therefore the main strategic goal - cutting off the supply lines of the Kherson group - was not achieved by the organizers of the terrorist attack. Moreover, if we consider the location of the explosion, we realize that it occurred a few hundred metres from the Crimean "Achilles' heel" - the arch of the bridge. This is the place where three types of traffic intersect: shipping, railroad and automobile, and this is where the railroad string of the bridge closely adjoins the automobile one.
> 
> Obviously, this was the point where it was intended to collapse all the spans, thereby blocking the exit from the Sea of Azov. However, something went wrong and the tankers with the car ended up at the same point somewhat earlier, or the calculation was not entirely accurate. So today Kiev and the Western handlers have only solved the problem of the psychological effect of the strike, but not the strategic one.
> 
> And finally: note that all the posters and stamps now being replicated by Zelensky's office show the explosion in the vicinity of the arch.
> 
> Apparently, Kiev had only one opportunity to carry out such an attack on the bridge, and only a partial effect was achieved, the resonance and consequences of which will be levelled in the coming days.
> 
> Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
> https://****/+2pzG51JUhlYxZmQx
> @Slavyangrad / SLG Spetsnaz Detachment (Inna&P)
> 
> Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community
> 
> 
> https://****/loordofwar/51067
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁😘😘😘
> 
> 🇷🇺⚡️Ministry of Transport of the Russian Federation: Permission has been received for the movement of trains along the Crimean bridge.
> 
> In the video, the first test train on the railway track was successful.
> 
> 
> 
> ⚡️ Follow our channel
> ⚡️ Donate


I would not laugh. The bridge will not survive the second, third or fourth bomb blast.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579102580332199936

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

Some posters are this forum are suggesting that "full service" has resumed on both roads and the railway. Russian goverment are unsure and has ordered divers to inspect the damage : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/09/russian-divers-inspect-crimea-bridge-ukraine-russia


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Merkel: Europe Can Achieve Lasting Peace Only with Russia​




by Omnia Ahmed

10:28 AM October 7, 2022





Share on FacebookShare on Twitter


Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel stressed, on Thursday, that lasting peace in Europe can be reached only with the involvement of Russia, DPA news reported.​During her speech at a ceremony dedicated to the 77th anniversary of the Suddeutsche Zeitung newspaper in Munich, Merkel affirmed that the Cold War will go on until a lasting peace is achieved with the help of Russia.
In addition, the former chancellor pointed out that the current situation in Ukraine was a “turning point”, reiterating that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s words should be taken very seriously.
“We all are strongly advised to take the words seriously rather than classify them as a bluff from the very start,” Merkel said.
“Taking words seriously, not dismissing them from the outset as just a bluff, but dealing with them seriously is by no means a sign of weakness or appeasement, but a sign of political wisdom – a wisdom that helps to maintain room for maneuver or, at least as important, even to develop new ones,” she noted in previous remarks.

Last week, Merkel highlighted the need to work with Moscow on a pan-European security architecture amid the Nord Stream gas leaks.
Merkel tried to improve relations with Russia and supported the Nord Stream-2 gas pipeline construction project. She also noted that Germany currently has “no reason to be complacent,” adding that this crisis could be surpassed with sufficient strength and self-confidence.









Merkel: Europe Can Achieve Lasting Peace Only with Russia


Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel stressed, on Thursday, that lasting peace in Europe can be reached only with the involvement



see.news


----------



## Paul2

sammuel said:


> Still cant figure how they pulled that off.
> 
> You can clearly see the truck is moving on the right lane , which makes me think that the driver was unaware of the bomb. If it was intentional he would drive on the left lane ( to damage the other runway ) or in the middle of the road , to do the most damage.
> 
> But what ruins my theory , is the timing of the explosion at the exact time the train passed.
> 
> Just don't don't see how they could calculate the exact time a truck driver would be on the bridge and pass the train. That would be so much easier to pull off if the driver was actually the one pushing the button .
> 
> Still a mystery.
> 
> Any suggestions ?
> 
> ~



Beacon on the train? Long range radio?



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579070929799622658
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579049429922766848



Nova Kamyanka was retaken close to a week ago, during the initial push. They indeed retaken few villages to the west. Most of their push yesterday was with little russian contest.


----------



## sammuel

Paul2 said:


> Beacon on the train? Long range radio?
> 
> 
> 
> Nova Kamyanka was retaken close to a week ago, during the initial push. They indeed retaken few villages to the west. Most of their push yesterday was with little russian contest.




Yes , but you know how truck drivers are , he could have pulled off for a coffee , vodka or what ever and be on the bridge an hour after the train passed. 

Hard to calculate what an unaware driver would do.

~


----------



## MeFishToo

sammuel said:


> Still cant figure how they pulled that off.
> 
> You can clearly see the truck is moving on the right lane , which makes me think that the driver was unaware of the bomb. If it was intentional he would drive on the left lane ( to damage the other runway ) or in the middle of the road , to do the most damage.
> 
> But what ruins my theory , is the timing of the explosion at the exact time the train passed.
> 
> Just don't don't see how they could calculate the exact time a truck driver would be on the bridge and pass the train. That would be so much easier to pull off if the driver was actually the one pushing the button .
> 
> Still a mystery.
> 
> Any suggestions ?
> 
> ~


The train is not moving. My guess is the damaged train was a bonus for the ukrainians, if the truck did carry the bomb. I dont think the driver knew, so they couldnt plan for the train to be on the bridge, unless they bribed someone else but the guards ment to inspect the trucks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579108186094993408


Viet said:


> I would not laugh. The bridge will not survive the second, third or fourth bomb blast.



Bridge is not essential. Russia has sufficient air lifters









Ilyushin Il-76 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Mil Mi-26 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## sammuel

Ali_Baba said:


> Some posters are this forum are suggesting that "full service" has resumed on both roads and the railway. Russian goverment are unsure and has ordered divers to inspect the damage : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/09/russian-divers-inspect-crimea-bridge-ukraine-russia



The two highways sit on the same concrete slab , if it was moved by the explosion than it would effect both highways , not just the side that fell into sea. This is something only the divers would know.

As for the railway bridge , to tell what damage was cause by the fire , Surely the tracks were all twisted so I don"t buy they could use with in a day,

But we will know soon enough.

~


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579110286254280705


----------



## Hack-Hook

RescueRanger said:


> This image is a little misleading. I am no fan of Russia but the computer in the second photo is a POSITRON which was a soviet era computer aimed for schools. I know this because we had one such computer in our IT lab in Pakistan.
> 
> Russia Military computers are supplied by a handful of companies the most prominent of which are ADK & Elbrus:
> View attachment 885855
> 
> 
> 
> Let's make fun of Russia's epic fails in Ukraine, but please don't spread too misinformation.
> 
> @Jango





BHAN85 said:


> I dont see the big deal in the bridge blast when Western weapons shipment and supplies are smuggled through Ukraine borders without stop everyday.
> 
> It's just Russia intel gathering is a big shit.
> 
> They must have webcams of 0.7 megapixels in their satellites or I dont know, something very crappy.
> 
> If Russia could stop the continuous flux of Western shipments through Ukraine border, war would have ended months ago.
> 
> But they can't do it.





Viet said:


> Oh looks like my old commodore 64. great time. the sanctions now in place has pushed Russia automobile 50y back in time of USSR. If they can even make any sizeable number of cars at all. As for Russia computers they belong to museums.



and think here we were making fun of them in Tehran because they were using Lenovo Legion laptops from 4-5 years ago 

seems despite all sanction our situation is far better than Russia


----------



## sammuel

MeFishToo said:


> The train is not moving. My guess is the damaged train was a bonus for the ukrainians, if the truck did carry the bomb. I dont think the driver knew, so they couldnt plan for the train to be on the bridge, unless they bribed someone else but the guards ment to inspect the trucks.



I think there is more too it , don't believe in coincidence , they must have planned this for months and figured where it would do the most damage , i doubt they what just leave the rail bridge out.

Train not moving is an interesting observation.

That could have not happened by chance as well , maybe they caused some minor disturbance on the rail ( God knows how as it is heavily guarded ). But that would give them a much longer opportunity to hit the bridge and train at the same time.

~


----------



## Viet

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Merkel: Europe Can Achieve Lasting Peace Only with Russia​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Omnia Ahmed
> 
> 10:28 AM October 7, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
> 
> 
> Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel stressed, on Thursday, that lasting peace in Europe can be reached only with the involvement of Russia, DPA news reported.​During her speech at a ceremony dedicated to the 77th anniversary of the Suddeutsche Zeitung newspaper in Munich, Merkel affirmed that the Cold War will go on until a lasting peace is achieved with the help of Russia.
> In addition, the former chancellor pointed out that the current situation in Ukraine was a “turning point”, reiterating that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s words should be taken very seriously.
> “We all are strongly advised to take the words seriously rather than classify them as a bluff from the very start,” Merkel said.
> “Taking words seriously, not dismissing them from the outset as just a bluff, but dealing with them seriously is by no means a sign of weakness or appeasement, but a sign of political wisdom – a wisdom that helps to maintain room for maneuver or, at least as important, even to develop new ones,” she noted in previous remarks.
> 
> Last week, Merkel highlighted the need to work with Moscow on a pan-European security architecture amid the Nord Stream gas leaks.
> Merkel tried to improve relations with Russia and supported the Nord Stream-2 gas pipeline construction project. She also noted that Germany currently has “no reason to be complacent,” adding that this crisis could be surpassed with sufficient strength and self-confidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merkel: Europe Can Achieve Lasting Peace Only with Russia
> 
> 
> Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel stressed, on Thursday, that lasting peace in Europe can be reached only with the involvement
> 
> 
> 
> see.news


“by no means a sign of weakness or appeasement”

No offense but she should shut up.
Her energy politics is a disaster.
Her appeasement politics is a disaster.
Worst of all, she weakened the military to the point Trump wanted to withdraw the US from the Nato because he thought the US was cheated by Germany.

Her friendship to Putin made her blind. She said she knew Putin wanted to destroy the EU. She knew Putin hatred on liberty, democracy, good governance What’s her reaction? Nothing. She did not want to hurt Putin. She simply ignores Putin has hijacked Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Merkel: Europe Can Achieve Lasting Peace Only with Russia​
> 
> 
> 
> by Omnia Ahmed
> 
> 10:28 AM October 7, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
> 
> 
> Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel stressed, on Thursday, that lasting peace in Europe can be reached only with the involvement of Russia, DPA news reported.​During her speech at a ceremony dedicated to the 77th anniversary of the Suddeutsche Zeitung newspaper in Munich, Merkel affirmed that the Cold War will go on until a lasting peace is achieved with the help of Russia.
> In addition, the former chancellor pointed out that the current situation in Ukraine was a “turning point”, reiterating that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s words should be taken very seriously.
> “We all are strongly advised to take the words seriously rather than classify them as a bluff from the very start,” Merkel said.
> “Taking words seriously, not dismissing them from the outset as just a bluff, but dealing with them seriously is by no means a sign of weakness or appeasement, but a sign of political wisdom – a wisdom that helps to maintain room for maneuver or, at least as important, even to develop new ones,” she noted in previous remarks.
> 
> Last week, Merkel highlighted the need to work with Moscow on a pan-European security architecture amid the Nord Stream gas leaks.
> Merkel tried to improve relations with Russia and supported the Nord Stream-2 gas pipeline construction project. She also noted that Germany currently has “no reason to be complacent,” adding that this crisis could be surpassed with sufficient strength and self-confidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merkel: Europe Can Achieve Lasting Peace Only with Russia
> 
> 
> Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel stressed, on Thursday, that lasting peace in Europe can be reached only with the involvement
> 
> 
> 
> see.news



thankfully her delusion has been consigned to the dustbin of history !!!!



sammuel said:


> I think there is more too it , don't believe in coincidence , they must have planned this for months and figured where it would do the most damage , i doubt they what just leave the rail bridge out.
> 
> Train not moving is an interesting observation.
> 
> That could have not happened by chance as well , maybe they caused some minor disturbance on the rail ( God knows how as it is heavily guarded ). But that would give them a much longer opportunity to hit the bridge and train at the same time.
> 
> ~



I suspect the train driver saw the explosion and tried to stop his train in an emergency fashion, but stopping the train takes time and he only managed to do it "just after" the explosion point, and not "just before" ie units of 10's of metres.. so probably just a lucky happy coincidence?


----------



## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> Russia does not have the resources, will power, and legitimacy to retain the stolen Ukrainian land!


how can you conclude this when the war hasn't yet ended?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579116843285217280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579120636307595266

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579117691251871745

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Paul2

sammuel said:


> Yes , but you know how truck drivers are , he could have pulled off for a coffee , vodka or what ever and be on the bridge an hour after the train passed.
> 
> Hard to calculate what an unaware driver would do.
> 
> ~



If there is a beacon somewhere on the bridge, you calculate the moment where incoming signal frequency stops increasing, and starts decreasing.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Ali_Baba said:


> thankfully her delusion has been consigned to the dustbin of history !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect the train driver saw the explosion and tried to stop his train in an emergency fashion, but stopping the train takes time and he only managed to do it "just after" the explosion point, and not "just before" ie units of 10's of metres.. so probably just a lucky happy coincidence?


no if you look at the video you see the secondary explosion (train just happened 1-2s after the car exploded)
so either train was stopped or the driver stopped it after the explosion so he don't bring burning fuel int the city


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579123507166072833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579125775672180737

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579130962616586241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579125158711025664

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Paul2

What's your take on cracking this defence line? @jhungary ?

I wrote yesterday that they shifted push to Davydiv Brid direction, but this might have been a ruse, as they advanced a lot on the east instead.

I see RUAF being very worried that they lose control of roads going NW-SE, as their supply, and retreat routes are endangered. There is only 1 NE-SW road there, and it's near the river.


----------



## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> The two highways sit on the same concrete slab , if it was moved by the explosion than it would effect both highways , not just the side that fell into sea. This is something only the divers would know.
> 
> As for the railway bridge , to tell what damage was cause by the fire , Surely the tracks were all twisted so I don"t buy they could use with in a day,
> 
> But we will know soon enough.
> 
> ~


as soon as the damaged wagons are removed , fixing the track , if that's the only damage and the bridge structure is not damaged only take several hours of work

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Ahmadbhutta01

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579130962616586241
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579125158711025664


Any idea how many jets are still with Ukraine airforce ?


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Ali_Baba said:


> thankfully her delusion has been consigned to the dustbin of history !!!!




Thankfully the new German government is not that delusional.


Germany stands with Ukraine against Russia

Germany stands with Indian Occupied Kashmir against India

Germany stands with Taiwan against China


Great to see the new Germany taking up leadership on key matters that impact the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> no if you look at the video you see the secondary explosion (train just happened 1-2s after the car exploded)
> so either train was stopped or the driver stopped it after the explosion so he don't bring burning fuel int the city


That has a problem. The highway is north of the railway.
It is clear from videos that the highway is to the right of the railway.
This means that the truck is driving towards Crimea.

If it is the train that explodes, then that explosion should come from the left, but it is coming from the right.





View from North.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579061030079954945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579030092356861953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579027820520431616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579146663582896128

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> What's your take on cracking this defence line? @jhungary ?
> 
> I wrote yesterday that they shifted push to Davydiv Brid direction, but this might have been a ruse, as they advanced a lot on the east instead.
> 
> I see RUAF being very worried that they lose control of roads going NW-SE, as their supply, and retreat routes are endangered. There is only 1 NE-SW road there, and it's near the river.
> 
> 
> View attachment 885889


They are waiting for the Russian to get flanked.

Advance thru Davydiv Brid give them options. They basically splitted the entire Russian defence into two. This gives Ukrainian the option to either continue to attack thru Dudchany, or advance thru Davydiv Brid.

What that will do is if Russia reinforce Dudchany axis and thin out the flank, the Ukrainian will attack thru Davydiv Brid and sweep the Russian flank up, if they don' then the Ukrainian will grind down Dudchany and attack thru there and then push the flank into Davydiv Brid direction, and the Russian would have to retreat or surrender.

Russian is locked in a Anvil and Hammer action, the only way out is to draw troop out of Kherson, which I don't see Russia will do it because it weaken the Kherson defence, and the Ukrainian have troop to exploit that if Russia move any troop from Kherson to Mylove or Kostromska

Conventional Military senses tells me Russian cannot hold out NE Kherson without thinning up Kherson defence itself. Which mean If this was me, I would withdraw the troop from NE Kherson and put them behind Nova Karkova or even put them into Kherson because that NE flank is all dangled out, the longer you keep it there, the more troop you loses, I would much rather have them defend Kherson and give the Ukrainian one big fight in Kherson then being gradually grinded away from a small fight..


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

US is selling gas to Germany at 4 times the price of the Russia gas and 7 times the price of the gas in the US.

This is a masterstroke by the US. This is why I love the US.

US is the undisputed super power of the world.

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579069193982705664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579158124791214080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579082799033724929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579124223918084098

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zartosht

Major ammo crisis for ukies. Desperate americans turning into pakistani supply. 

One thing you will notice is the american ammo shipments are very random. They are not giving what the ukies need, but what they can spare. 

This means a shipment of 200k small arms fire was announced with big hoohaaa. The average dumb person sees that and sais wow!!! Sooo much ammoz russia defeated usa usa!!! 

While a non-retarded person not filled with western propaganda shit will do some basic math. And see an average soldiers needs around 200 rounds per engagement. That means the shipment wouldnt last a single brigade of ukies more then a couple days. 

I feel bad about the simple minded twitter clowns. Reality will be brutal, a Russian tidal wave is coming. Only an idiot cant see it coming

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> US is selling gas to Germany at 4 times the price of the Russia gas and 7 times the price of the gas in the US.
> 
> This is a masterstroke by the US. This is why I love the US.
> 
> US is the undisputed super power of the world.



RU gas was coming to DE for basically free to keep them hooked.

Even if Germans were to drill own gas, it would've been more expensive.

Also, the murmur always been that RU gas/oil reserves are vastly overestimated

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Paul2 said:


> RU gas was coming to DE for basically free to keep them hooked.
> 
> Even if Germans were to drill own gas, it would've been more expensive.



German companies can move to the US to take advantage of the cheap US gas.


----------



## jhungary

sammuel said:


> Still cant figure how they pulled that off.
> 
> You can clearly see the truck is moving on the right lane , which makes me think that the driver was unaware of the bomb. If it was intentional , he would drive on the left lane ( to damage the other runway ) or in the middle of the road , to do the most damage.
> 
> But what ruins my theory , is the timing of the explosion at the exact time the train passed.
> 
> Just don't don't see how they could calculate the exact time a truck driver would be on the bridge and pass the train. That would be so much easier to pull off if the driver was actually the one pushing the button .
> 
> Still a mystery.
> 
> Any suggestions ?
> 
> ~


I have been thinking about that myself. 

Look at it from several different factors. This is what we do in the Miliary for Damage Assessment, and most likely what the Russian is doing now.

1.) How much explosive to have taken out one entire road bridge, damage another, and damage to the Train and Train Track next to it?

2.) Was it one explosion or two?

3.) How does the bomb get in position? And how that affect the bombing.

4.) How much Damage assessment was done, co-related to the location of bombing.

Now, if we can answer all these question, then we probably have a good idea how they pull this off. So let's start

1.) Explosion taken out one entire section of the bridge is not small, and the damage it had done is quite big, I would say it is at least 1000 pound explosion involved, may be more, so a few things are going t be out of question, since we didn't see any pillar was damaged or destroyed, we can rule out C4 on load bearing beam, we can also rule out any thing from below because there were no blast damage from the joint that was exposed. And the surface of the bridge have a radiated and larger burnt mark than the side of the bridge, as the two photos below










I can say for certain (90%+ Certainty), this is a roadside det of a 1000 pound or more device. 

2.) If we look at the first picture of the rail bridge, you can see the side and the pillar underneat the train are both blackened, and suffered fire damage. Which suggest the fireball of the road bridge burn up and toward the rail bridge. Now I can't say for sure someone didn't just put C4 on the burned pillar and it just didn't go down, don't have enough data for that, but I would found it strange if they do send frogman to mine the rail bridge, why not do the same with the road bridge? So I found that unlikely, and based on that, I would conclude with potential certainty (50-60%) that this is a single bomb. 

3.) The bridge have X-ray to scan trucks and car on both ends, whether or not they are probably done, or has been done at all are unknown, so I cannot comment on that. However, if this is a truck bomb, and this is more or less maximum damage, then I don't think it is likely this is a truck bomb without the driver knowing because you have to be very lucky to have all the things line up without direct control of the driver. The bomb has to be detonated on the middle stretch of the bridge and has to be next to the railway with a fuel train on top. 10 seconds before or after would have change the damage matrix a lot because you will be detonating the bomb on top of a pillar, most likely weaken the road bridge but not taking it down, and 10 second would mean you will be 800 meters forward or backward from the train, which will not consume the train, I have ZERO doubt this is a coordinated strike, too much co-incident to have it a blind sabotage, a "Hope and Pray" style strike, if this is a truck bomb, the driver HAVE TO BE IN THE KNOW. 

So what other delivery method? If not truck or car bomb?

It can be a hit and run scoop from SF. A few frogman team using submersible and get all the way out to Kerch Bridge without being detected. Lay explosive on the bridge but as I explained, this is more likely a surface det, which mean the Frogman would have to work on the road surface with full view of Russian and motor traffic, this is unlikely.

The bomb on the train? Most likely not, an explosive this big would have disintegrate the train. Or at least blow it off the bridge, if the train have the bomb, the train will not be on the track afterward. So no, I don't believe so. 

Missile? The only missile remotely able to reach the bridge is Ballistic Missile, but it's hard to hit the specific point with old Russian technology, either ATACMS or US supplies ballistic missile could do the trick, but there are no record of any transfer, however, I have suspected US or Western Country has been working on upgrade on Ukrainian Missile stock, maybe integrate it into Western Guidance system, that would give them range and accuracy to pin point attack. Especially so after Ukrainian sink Moskva and the ammo dump and airfield attack in Crimea. 

4.) As explained before, this is probably the maximum damaged across the entire bridge, there are no part of the bridge were not damaged, and some part of the bridge was seriously damaged. 

This is highly likely a coordinated strike, intel between the train and how and when such attack occur will not be notified by the Russian. This is not some mad ram suicide attack, the traffic was moving as usual before the attack, which mean this is out of nowhere by the Ukrainian, meaning they have way to get around the Russian defences on the bridge. 

With all the info, I can conclude This is Highly Likely a suicide VBIED type attack, or a Missile Strike, less likely it is SF Direct Action op (SF would still be involved, just not on the ground) highly unlikely this is an unorganised attack. They have been planning this for a while.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BlessedKingOfLonging

BHAN85 said:


> I dont see the big deal in the bridge blast when Western weapons shipment and supplies are smuggled through Ukraine borders without stop everyday.
> 
> It's just Russia intel gathering is a big shit.
> 
> They must have webcams of 0.7 megapixels in their satellites or I dont know, something very crappy.
> 
> If Russia could stop the continuous flux of Western shipments through Ukraine border, war would have ended months ago.
> 
> But they can't do it.


Why do they have computers from the 1970s?!


----------



## lcloo

BlessedKingOfLonging said:


> Why do they have computers from the 1970s?!


Becasue those are old photos from 1970s or 1980s.


----------



## Viet




----------



## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> Major ammo crisis for ukies. Desperate americans turning into pakistani supply.
> 
> One thing you will notice is the american ammo shipments are very random. They are not giving what the ukies need, but what they can spare.
> 
> This means a shipment of 200k small arms fire was announced with big hoohaaa. The average dumb person sees that and sais wow!!! Sooo much ammoz russia defeated usa usa!!!
> 
> While a non-retarded person not filled with western propaganda shit will do some basic math. And see an average soldiers needs around 200 rounds per engagement. That means the shipment wouldnt last a single brigade of ukies more then a couple days.
> 
> I feel bad about the simple minded twitter clowns. Reality will be brutal, a Russian tidal wave is coming. Only an idiot cant see it coming


Like the russian tidal wave we have seen so far in this 3 day special operation? 

Ok buddy

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> The big issue of the blast is Crimea Bridge is one of the most well-guarded pieces of real estate in Russia. If the Ukrainian can hit that, what CAN'T they hit?
> 
> Which mean from now on, Russia has to beef up every strategic important roadway and railway, which mean more troop to guard those area connected to Ukraine. Rostov, Belgorod, Kursk, Voronezh, Volgograd, all these places have to beef up security, that would drain the troop deposition when they are almost all engaging in Ukraine right now.
> 
> Another issue is the psychological aspect, Crimea were considered Russian Territories by Russian since 2014, unlike the newly annexed territories, an attack on this region means Ukraine will not care about the annexation, this will shake the boots of people who live in Crimea, because you will start to think were they really worth anything to the Russian? One question would be asked over and over again by the Crimean "Why are we not protected" On the other hand, this also mean there are insurgent operating on Crimea and Russia, which will go deep into a divided issue toward their population, now everyone will suspect everyone else as saboteur. It will keep people on their heels.
> 
> And finally, what's the big deal? This is the kind of deep strike any intelligence apparatus dream for. If there are one mission in your life as an intelligence operator, this is the kind of mission you want to pull off. And as they say, Attacking Kerch bridge is fantastic, attacking the bridge on Putin birthday is brilliant. This is a giant middle finger to Putin and his establishment.


Putin has given the FSB to guard the bridge and other assets, including electricity lines, gas pipeline between Crimea and mainland. The spy agency receives “full power” via a presidential decree to exercise their duties. Gerasimov will not be amused that Russia military is degraded.





__





Putin befiehlt FSB verstärkte Kontrolle über Krim-Brücke


Russlands Präsident Wladimir Putin hat per Dekret den Geheimdienst FSB angewiesen, die Kontrolle über die durch eine Explosion beschädigte Krim-Brücke zu verschärfen. "Dem FSB werden die Vollmachten übertragen zur Organisation und Koordination von Schutzmaßnahmen für den Transportweg über die...




www.sn.at


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin has given the FSB to guard the bridge and other assets, including electricity lines, gas pipeline between Crimea and mainland. The spy agency receives “full power” to exercise their duties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin befiehlt FSB verstärkte Kontrolle über Krim-Brücke
> 
> 
> Russlands Präsident Wladimir Putin hat per Dekret den Geheimdienst FSB angewiesen, die Kontrolle über die durch eine Explosion beschädigte Krim-Brücke zu verschärfen. "Dem FSB werden die Vollmachten übertragen zur Organisation und Koordination von Schutzmaßnahmen für den Transportweg über die...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sn.at


This is probably the BIGGEST mistake Putin has made, FSB does not have enough manpower nor know how to protect bridge or important infrastructure.

It's like asking the FBI to guard all bridges, tunnel or what not in the US during war from sabotage......... How could they do it? I mean FBI, like FSB is an investigative arm of the federal law enforcement. It's not the action arms...


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> This is probably the BIGGEST mistake Putin has made, FSB does not have enough manpower nor know how to protect bridge or important infrastructure.
> 
> It's like asking the FBI to guard all bridges, tunnel or what not in the US during war from sabotage......... How could they do it? I mean FBI, like FSB is an investigative arm of the federal law enforcement. It's not the action arms...


Putin will give military grade weapons to the FSB. That’s the next step. That’s my guess. Otherwise I don’t know how the spies can protect the bridge and other strategic assets.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579136772063125504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579140461616594945

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

Cracking down hidden flows of crypto currency that secretly finance Russia war machine.









The Fight to Cut Off the Crypto Fueling Russia's Ukraine Invasion


Blockchain investigators have uncovered at least $4 million—and counting—in cryptocurrency donations to Russia’s violent militia groups.




www.wired.com










PHOTOGRAPH: OLGA MALTSEVA/GETTY IMAGES


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Cracking down hidden flows of crypto currency that secretly finance Russia war machine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Fight to Cut Off the Crypto Fueling Russia's Ukraine Invasion
> 
> 
> Blockchain investigators have uncovered at least $4 million—and counting—in cryptocurrency donations to Russia’s violent militia groups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wired.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PHOTOGRAPH: OLGA MALTSEVA/GETTY IMAGES



Russia can just print money to finance war. Russia has lots of trees to make paper to print money.









Will Russia’s Forests Be an Asset or an Obstacle in Climate Fight?


New research indicating Russia’s vast forests store more carbon than previously estimated would seem like good news. But scientists are concerned Russia will count this carbon uptake as an offset in its climate commitments, which would allow its emissions to continue unchecked.




e360.yale.edu


----------



## The SC



Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579201831984852992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579200905697984512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579184415124881408

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579199473376325632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579142716281479169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579141174459531267


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That has a problem. The highway is north of the railway.
> It is clear from videos that the highway is to the right of the railway.
> This means that the truck is driving towards Crimea.
> 
> If it is the train that explodes, then that explosion should come from the left, but it is coming from the right.
> 
> View attachment 885898
> 
> View from North.


no i say there was a secondary explosion after the truck exploded when the video switch to the control room monitor you see it . and there is only 1-2sec distance the train driver had no time to stop before the second explosion . 
that can mean one thing the train was stationary or stopped one tanker get exploded 
now look at the photo you post . it show the burning train is exactly adjacent to were the road bridge is fallen and the lorry exploded , it only mean one thing , the train for some reason was stationary at the time of explosion otherwise before stop it had moved 1-2 hundred meter at least


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579215829782392833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579163193720844288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579174050047614976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579162692379873281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579172354101387264

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> 2.) If we look at the first picture of the rail bridge, you can see the side and the pillar underneat the train are both blackened, and suffered fire damage. Which suggest the fireball of the road bridge burn up and toward the rail bridge. Now I can't say for sure someone didn't just put C4 on the burned pillar and it just didn't go down, don't have enough data for that, but I would found it strange if they do send frogman to mine the rail bridge, why not do the same with the road bridge? So I found that unlikely, and based on that, I would conclude with potential certainty (50-60%) that this is a single bomb.


I believe that is the fuel that were leaking from the tanker in train was falling down and burning in the process , that is what make the char-mark on the rail road bridge not explosion itself
this photo shows it






jhungary said:


> 3.) The bridge have X-ray to scan trucks and car on both ends, whether or not they are probably done, or has been done at all are unknown, so I cannot comment on that. However, if this is a truck bomb, and this is more or less maximum damage, then I don't think it is likely this is a truck bomb without the driver knowing because you have to be very lucky to have all the things line up without direct control of the driver. The bomb has to be detonated on the middle stretch of the bridge and has to be next to the railway with a fuel train on top. 10 seconds before or after would have change the damage matrix a lot because you will be detonating the bomb on top of a pillar, most likely weaken the road bridge but not taking it down, and 10 second would mean you will be 800 meters forward or backward from the train, which will not consume the train, I have ZERO doubt this is a coordinated strike, too much co-incident to have it a blind sabotage, a "Hope and Pray" style strike, if this is a truck bomb, the driver HAVE TO BE IN THE KNOW.


by looking at the train is exactly adjacent to the truck and didn't move i say it was moving very slow or was stopped at all and wonder can't you use a remote detonator to detonate the truck while you are at the bank of the river
that's a taught


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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> But what ruins my theory , is the timing of the explosion at the exact time the train passed.
> 
> Just don't don't see how they could calculate the exact time a truck driver would be on the bridge and pass the train. That would be so much easier to pull off if the driver was actually the one pushing the button .
> 
> Still a mystery.
> 
> Any suggestions ?



It was activated by a satellite phone in the truck. The truck was followed by a satellite and it activated at the moment the train was in the vicinity of the truck as observed from space. 

As you can see it happened while the road section was below the train. the Intention was for it to occur a bit earlier on the bridge where the truck and train were on the same height. But they couldn't coordinate. But they came close. 



sammuel said:


> Yes , but you know how truck drivers are , he could have pulled off for a coffee , vodka or what ever and be on the bridge an hour after the train passed.
> 
> Hard to calculate what an unaware driver would do.


You just tell the truck diver you have a hooker waiting for him at this and this time, she has to go home before then so make sure you are there at the specific time. That is the only way to motivate a truck driver. 

It will all be repaired quickly. the concrete section can be delivered in a day to two and a few days to mount it.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579168010836664325

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579148356458524674

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## khansaheeb

thetutle said:


> It was activated by a satellite phone in the truck. The truck was followed by a satellite and it activated at the moment the train was in the vicinity of the truck as observed from space.
> 
> As you can see it happened while the road section was below the train. the Intention was for it to occur a bit earlier on the bridge where the truck and train were on the same height. But they couldn't coordinate. But they came close.
> 
> 
> You just tell the truck diver you have a hooker waiting for him at this and this time, she has to go home before then so make sure you are there at the specific time. That is the only way to motivate a truck driver.
> 
> It will all be repaired quickly. the concrete section can be delivered in a day to two and a few days to mount it.


Exactly the same method used in Iraq and Afghanistan.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579194312914792449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579159476258902017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579138445926371328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579138215453556737

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579215829782392833
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579163193720844288
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579174050047614976
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579162692379873281
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579172354101387264


I wonder if Putin remember the Zatoga bridge or any other of the civilian infrastructure of which destruction he is responsible for, before instructing the head of the committee to label the Crimea bridge attack as terrorism.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579230682819481602
Russian losses now exceed 6,900

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1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579224747380191233

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1


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> I believe that is the fuel that were leaking from the tanker in train was falling down and burning in the process , that is what make the char-mark on the rail road bridge not explosion itself
> this photo shows it



Petrol, Diesel or any form of liquid follow gravitational pull, if fuel on that train spill over the bridge, they will gather on the edge that closer to the ground, that's because the gravity pull the liquid to the bottom edge. Which mean burn mark on the top side is a lot longer than the burn mark on bottom, and as you can see it is the opposite on the photo, the burn mark underneat the bridge is longer than the burn mark on top. Which mean the undercarriage were burn more than the top, which suggest the flame is under that part of the bridge, instead of on top of that bridge. 

You can try that at home, fill a lunch box with water and watch it fill to the rim and spill, when it spills it does not spill along the entire edge of the side of that lunch box, it spills at one point. 



Hack-Hook said:


> by looking at the train is exactly adjacent to the truck and didn't move i say it was moving very slow or was stopped at all and wonder can't you use a remote detonator to detonate the truck while you are at the bank of the river
> that's a taught


Again, not just the train, and you cannot use remote det unless you are also on that bridge, because you need to have visual, you can use drone but that would have been too noticeable, and you may not be in range of the detonator. 

There are no "Bank in the river" this is not a short bridge; this is a bridge across the entire strait. The entire length of the bridge is about 16km......either side face a sea,


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579209766362001408

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1


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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579230682819481602
> Russian losses now exceed 6,900


What a complete waste. All that in exchange for some land completely destroyed and depopulated bordering a country that will hate Russia for decades to come.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578945277968674816

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1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579188492029943812

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1


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin will give military grade weapons to the FSB. That’s the next step. That’s my guess. Otherwise I don’t know how the spies can protect the bridge and other strategic assets.


That's the point, you can't. Not even with military weapon. Cos you are not trained for it. 

FSB is intelligence apparatus, which mean they probably can sniff out plan to attack any infrastructure, but they were not trained to deal with the actual attack, you need to understand how to protect a road or a bridge before you can do enforcement work. 

FSB weren't train for any of that. Which mean even if they have enough people to post on every corner of the bridge, they won't be able to protect it.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579233867571298305

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> That's the point, you can't. Not even with military weapon. Cos you are not trained for it.
> 
> FSB is intelligence apparatus, which mean they probably can sniff out plan to attack any infrastructure, but they were not trained to deal with the actual attack, you need to understand how to protect a road or a bridge before you can do enforcement work.
> 
> FSB weren't train for any of that. Which mean even if they have enough people to post on every corner of the bridge, they won't be able to protect it.



FSB is not intelligence. De jure, they are a russian MI5. But in practice it's a multitool for, well..., anything putin wants.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579255667638276096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579255978767585280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579257175234732032

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579215829782392833
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579163193720844288
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579174050047614976
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579162692379873281
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579172354101387264


That’s funny, Putler calling it a terrorist attack 🤣 
It was Ukraine’s special operation


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 8​Oct 8, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Riley Bailey, Angela Howard, Grace Mappes, and Frederick W. Kagan
October 8, 10:30 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
A large-scale explosion damaged the Kerch Strait Bridge that links occupied Crimea with Russia on October 8. *Maxar satellite imagery shows that the explosion collapsed one lane of the road bridge and damaged the nearby railway track.[1] The Russian Investigative Committee stated that a truck exploded on the bridge and ignited seven fuel tanks on the railroad.[2] A small fraction of Russian milbloggers speculated that Ukrainian saboteurs used a boat to detonate the bridge from the sea, though there is no visible evidence for such a conclusion.[3] The Kremlin refrained from accusing Ukraine of sabotage or attack, echoing similar restraint following the sinking of the cruiser _Moskva _and the Ukrainian strike on Saky airfield in Crimea.[4] Ukraine did not claim responsibility for the incident, but _The New York Times_ reported that an unnamed senior Ukrainian official stated that Ukrainian intelligence participated in the explosion.[5] Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov noted that the Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered a government commission composed of government officials, security services, and the Ministry of Emergency Situations to investigate the ”emergency.”[6]
*The explosion will not permanently disrupt critical Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Crimea, but its aftermath is likely to increase friction in Russian logistics for some time. *The road bridge appears at least partially operational, and the railroad bridge did not suffer significant structural damage according to Russian reports that generally seem plausible based on the available video evidence. Russian footage shows people walking on the damaged road bridge and a train moving on the railroad bridge.[7] The Head of occupied Crimea Sergey Aksyonov claimed that the remaining lane of the road bridge opened to cars and buses after a rigorous security check, but that trucks must move by ferry.[8] The collapsed lane of the road bridge will restrict Russian military movements until it is repaired, forcing some Russian forces to rely on the ferry connection for some time. Russian forces will likely still be able to transport heavy military equipment via the railroad. Russian officials will likely intensify security checks on all vehicles crossing the bridge, however, adding delays to the movement of Russian military equipment, personnel, and supplies to Crimea. Putin has already signed a decree strengthening the security protocol on the bridge under the supervision of the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB).[9]
*The Kremlin is likely continuing to frame the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) as the scapegoat for the Kerch Bridge explosion and other Russian military failures to deflect the blame from Putin.* The Russian MoD has not issued an official statement regarding the incident as of this publication.[10] Russian opposition outlet _Meduza_ reported that the Russian Presidential Administration sent out a guide to Russian mass media on the appropriate way to downplay the severity of the damage to the bridge, and it is possible that the Kremlin has ordered the Russian MoD to remain quiet regarding the situation.[11] Russian propagandist Vladimir Solovyov stated that Russia must initiate a strike campaign on critical Ukrainian infrastructure instead of listening to Russian MoD promises.[12]
*Some nationalist voices noted that Putin and his close circle are failing to immediately address the attack on the symbolic bridge, voicing direct criticism of Putin for the first time. *A milblogger warned that if Putin fails to undertake retaliatory actions it “will be mistaken for the weakness of the president himself.”[13] Another milblogger noted that it is hypocritical for the Kremlin to call on Russians to rally behind Putin if he is unable to comment on significant events such as the _Moskva_ sinking, prisoner exchanges including Azovstal fighters, or the collapse of the Kharkiv frontline.[14] Others criticized the silence of Russian Deputy Chairman of the Security Council Dmitry Medvedev regarding the explosion, given that Medvedev had made several statements defining any attacks on the Kerch Bridge as a violation of Russian ”red lines.”[15] Russian milbloggers and propagandists alike called on the Kremlin to resume strikes on Ukrainian infrastructure and notably did not make any calls for Russia to use tactical nuclear weapons against Ukraine.
*Ukrainian and Russian sources claimed that the Kremlin targeted some higher military command figures following the Kerch Bridge explosion, but these reports remain unverified as of this publication. *The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that the Kremlin detained, arrested, and blocked unspecified military officials and ordered the units of the elite Dzerzhinsky Separate Operation Purpose Division to enter Moscow on October 8.[16] Milbloggers who favor the Wagner Group claimed that the Kremlin has replaced Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu and Chief of General Staff Army General Valery Gerasimov supposedly with Tula Governor Alexey Dyumin and the deputy commander-in-chief of the ground forces, Lieutenant General Alexander Matovnikov, respectfully.[17] ISW cannot independently verify either of these reports at this time.
*The Kremlin named the Russian Commander of the Aerospace Forces, Army General Sergey Surovikin, the new commander of the Russian operation in Ukraine, and this appointment has generated positive feedback within the nationalist community. *Sorovikin previously commanded the “southern” group of forces in Ukraine and was reportedly responsible for the capture of Lysychansk in July.[18] Milbloggers shared their excitement regarding Surovikin’s appointment, noting that Surovikin has the “tough” character necessary to regain the initiative in Ukraine.[19] Wagner financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin extravagantly praised Surovikin because he “got into a tank and rushed to save” the Soviet Union during the 1991 coup attempt in Moscow.[20] Prigozhin’s interview further confirmed reports of a fissure between pro-war and “liberal” factions within the Kremlin, which ISW will consider in more detail in subsequent reports.
*Key Takeaways*

*A large-scale explosion seriously damaged the Kerch Strait Bridge that links occupied Crimea with Russia.*
*The Kremlin named the Russian Commander of the Aerospace Forces, Army General Sergey Surovikin, the new commander of the Russian operation in Ukraine, and this appointment has generated positive feedback within the nationalist community.*
*Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations in Kharkiv and Luhansk Oblasts.*
*Russian forces continued establishing defensive positions in northern Kherson Oblast.*
*Russian forces continued to attack settlements around Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and west of Donetsk City.*
*Ukrainian forces reportedly continued to shoot down Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones.*
*Russian federal subjects are facing financial challenges in funding mobilization.*
*Russian and occupation administration officials continued measures to remove Ukrainian children from their homes in Russian-occupied territories.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Oskil River-Kreminna Line)*
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations from Kharkiv Oblast in the direction of Svatove on October 8. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian assaults southeast of Kupyansk.[21] The Head of the Kharkiv Oblast administration, Oleg Synehubov, reported that Russian forces continued to shell Kupyansk and surrounding settlements.[22] Russian forces continued routine artillery, air, and missile strikes in eastern Ukraine in the vicinity of Kharkiv City, Bohodukhiv, and near Izyum.[23]
Russian sources also claimed that Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations in the Kreminna direction on October 8. The Russian MoD claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian forces attempting to cross the Zherebets River at an unspecified location.[24] The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) People’s Militia claimed that Russian forces maintain full control over the Kreminna-Svatove highway, despite previous reports of Ukrainian forces operating in the area.[25] The Russian MoD also claimed that Russian airstrikes hit two Ukrainian concentrations of manpower south of Kreminna near Siversk and west of Kreminna near Yampilivka.[26] The Russian MoD is increasingly including tactical details about Ukrainian forces in its claims, likely in response to Russian milblogger criticism that they do not report enough on Ukrainian advances. ISW makes no attempt to evaluate the veracity of the details the Russian MoD presents about the sizes, echelons, designations, or types of Ukrainian units and will not present those details in our reports.
Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces are continuing to suffer personnel losses in Luhansk Oblast. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on October 8 that Russian forces transported 300 wounded personnel to a hospital in Luhansk Oblast.[27]



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Russian forces continued establishing defensive positions in Kherson Oblast on October 8. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces continued to shell areas along the line of contact to prevent Ukrainian advances and began establishing new defensive lines in the Beryslav and Nova Kakhovka Raions.[28] A Russian source claimed that Ukrainian forces are continuing to consolidate along the front line near Davydiv Brid and Mala Oleksandrivka and are equipping strongholds in Bezimenne, all near the Ukrainian bridgehead over the Inhulets River.[29] ISW does not attempt to validate Russian forecasts of possible Ukrainian operations and offers no comment on their plausibility.
Ukrainian and Russian sources reported ongoing battles north and northwest of Kherson City, near the Ukrainian bridgehead over the Inhulets River, and northeast of Beryslav on October 8. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian ground attack near Ternovy Pody, roughly 20km northwest of Kherson City.[30] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to advance in the area of Davydiv Brid and Mala Oleksandrivka near the Ukrainian bridgehead over the Inhulets River.[31] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian attempts to advance near Sukhanove, Pyatikhatki, Sadok, Ishchenka, Burskynske, Shchaslyve, and Mala Seidemynykha on the northern Kherson Oblast frontline.[32] A Russian source claimed that Russian forces retook Pravdyne, 33km northwest of Kherson City.[33] A Russian source claimed that Russian forces repelled a Ukrainian ground attack near Dudchany on the western bank of the Dnipro River.[34] The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) claimed that Russian forces maintain positions in Snihurivka, Mykolaiv Oblast, approximately 60km east of Mykolaiv City, and reported ongoing fighting on the outskirts of the settlement.[35]
Ukrainian forces continued their interdiction campaign in Kherson Oblast to support their southern counteroffensive on October 8. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian forces struck three Russian concentrations of manpower and equipment and a logistics point in Beryslav Raion.[36] Ukraine's Southern Operational Command also reported that Ukrainian aviation struck Russian anti-aircraft systems in Beryslav and Kakhovka Raions.[37] Geolocated images show that Ukrainian forces likely hit five fuel storage facilities near Kyselivka, Bilozerskyi Raion.[38] Ukrainian forces reportedly shot down a Russian Orlan-10 drone in Chervone, Beryslav Raion.[39] The Russian MoD claimed that land and maritime logistics routes are continuously provisioning Russian forces operating in the Mykolaiv-Kryvyi Rih and Zaporizhia directions, however.[40]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued conducting ground attacks throughout Donetsk Oblast on October 8. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground attacks on and around Bakhmut near Vyimka, Bilohorivka, Bakhmutske, and Krasna Hora to the north and Mayorsk, Ozeryanivka, Zaitseve, Odradivka, and Andriivka to the south.[41] A Russian milblogger referred to recent Russian-claimed gains south of Bakhmut of Zaitseve and Vesela Dolyna as a “tactical success.”[42] ISW first reported on Russian ground attacks against Zaitseve and Vesela Dolyna on August 5 and July 13 respectively, noting that Russian forces have taken over two months to be able to claim to have secured two small villages.[43] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground assaults around Avdiivka near Pervomaiske, Vesele, Kamianka, and Nevelske, and in western Donetsk Oblast near Pobieda, Krasnohorivka, and Novomykhailivka.[44] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled a Ukrainian counterattack at an unspecified location in the “South Donetsk” direction, possibly referring to the Vuhledar, western Donetsk Oblast area, but there is currently no independent confirmation of the Russian MoD’s definition of this operational direction.[45]
Ukrainian forces likely conducted strikes against railway stations in the Russian rear in Donetsk Oblast on October 8. The DNR claimed that Ukrainian forces struck a railway station in Ilovaisk, Donetsk Oblast, damaging three diesel fuel tanks for trains and a technical area of the station.[46] Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces struck the Karan railway station in Andriivka, Donetsk Oblast, roughly 51km north of Mariupol.[47] Geolocated footage shows smoke rising from the station area with audible secondary detonations, likely from ammunition.[48]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued to conduct routine artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole and in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv Oblasts on October 8.[49] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces attacked Zaporizhzhia City, Mykolaiv City, Ochakiv, and areas of Odesa Oblast with Shahed-136 kamikaze drones but stated that Ukrainian forces successfully shot them down.[50] Russian forces continued artillery fire and drone strikes against infrastructure in Nikopol and Marhanets, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, on the north bank of the Dnipro River.[51] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces shelled Russian manpower and equipment concentrations in the areas of Polohy and Tokmak, Zaporizhia Oblast, and that Russian forces suffered at least 85 casualties.[52]
Russian and Ukrainian sources traded accusations of shelling the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) overnight on October 7-8.[53] Russian and Ukrainian officials and the International Atomic Energy Agency stated that the shelling cut off the external energy supply to the ZNPP after engineers had just restored the external power line on October 7.[54] Ukrainian Enerhodar Mayor Dmytro Orlov later stated that engineers restored power to Enerhodar and the surrounding settlements on October 8.[55] Russian Zaporizhia Oblast occupation official Vladimir Rogov stated that Russian atomic energy agency Rosatom has already started the process of integrating the ZNPP into the Russian power grid.[56]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
The financial, logistical, and political challenges of supporting the Russian mobilization process continue to fuel societal division within Russia and criticism of the government. The Kremlin and Russian Ministry of Defense (MOD) risk alienating core supporters including those supportive of mobilization by failing to address inconsistencies and inadequacies in the implementation of mobilization.
The large-scale removal of Russian men of working age (either through mobilization or through their flight) has left holes in the positions they formerly filled. A Russian source reported on October 6 that the Russian Ministry of Natural Resources proposed to exempt garbage collectors and garbage truck drivers from mobilization.[57] Forbes reported on October 6 that Russian sports centers again petitioned authorities for an exemption to mobilization for coaches and instructors, as mobilization applies to 70% of men employed in the industry.[58] Mothers caring for children after the mobilization of their husbands will also face greater non-work demands on their time. A Russian source reported on October 6 that the Liberal Democratic Party drafted a bill authorizing the reduction of work hours for mothers with mobilized husbands to 35 hours a week at prior salaries.[59] Russian authorities appear to have recognized and attempted to address labor shortages caused by mobilization. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on October 8 that local authorities in some Russian districts are attempting to implement mobilization plans drawing on unemployed men of conscription age.[60] However, the economic gaps left by the sudden removal of part of the Russian workforce are likely to continue to create complications.
Funding mobilization poses an economic challenge to Russian regions, as ISW has previously reported.[61] Russian regions balance pressure to deliver on promises to the mobilized while remaining within their means. A local Russian source reported on October 6 that Tartarstan Deputy Finance Minister Gela Gerasimova stated that the budget of Tartarstan cannot finance mobilization. Gerasimova claimed mobilization will draw on the federal budget.[62] Omsk Governor Aleksandr Burkov stated on October 7 that he found an unspecified way to pay each mobilized person 100,000 rubles ($1,603) after previously stating the region's budget could not afford such payments.[63] The costs of mobilization are likely to continue well into 2023, and the long-term viability of such solutions is questionable.
Poor behavior demonstrated by conscripts brought to training grounds has disturbed nearby communities. A Russian source reported on October 7 that residents of Mulino raised complaints that the mobilized sent to Mulino training grounds drank heavily and walked around the village. ISW has previously reported similar complaints in this area.[64] Nizhny Novgorod Governor Gleb Nikitin has therefore banned the sale of alcohol during mobilization in Mulino.[65]
Reports from October 6 and 7 show a series of women across Russia recording video messages asking for help in response to their husbands’ illegal mobilization.[66] ISW has previously reported an ongoing pattern of mobilization of Russians with disqualifying health and personal circumstances.[67] _Fontanka Saint Petersburg _reported on October 6 that a housewife in Krasnogvardeysky District, Saint Petersburg, received a mobilization notice.[68] This report is the first that ISW has identified detailing the mobilization of a woman without mention of a relevant work background.
Mobilized soldiers also continue to face extreme conditions. A Russian news source counted 15 deaths among the mobilized from various regions prior to deployment to Ukraine as of October 7.[69]
Discrepancies in the level of public concern for newly mobilized units as compared to contract soldiers have likely created a rift in Russian society. Ukraine’s Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) published on October 8 a recording of a call between a contract Russian soldier and his mother. The mother complained that mobilized units face preferential treatment over volunteer and contract soldiers who have been fighting for months. The mother argued that Russian contract soldiers purchased their own equipment and faced the same difficulties as newly mobilized soldiers while the Russian public did not care in the same way that they do about the mobilized men. She also noted that contract soldiers faced such difficulties without the 200,000-300,000-ruble ($3,207-4,811) bonus received by the mobilized. The mother directly expressed discontent with the apparent unreachability of Putin on issues related to soldiers’ well-being and questioned whether he “even [knows] where our guys are?”[70] ISW cannot confirm the extent of such dissatisfaction, but the increasing concessions given to mobilized men in response to broad criticism of the mobilization effort could increase such feelings among contract soldiers, volunteer soldiers, and their families.
Deputy Russian Minister of Defense Viktor Goremykin deflected criticism that the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) is severely undersupplying soldiers by claiming on October 7 that the Russian Armed Forces “have everything necessary to provide for every servicemember in full.”[71] Widespread reports of Russian mobilized units being forced to purchase their own equipment and clothing, going for days with no food or water, and requesting donations from Russian society contradict Goremykin’s statement.[72] Russian military bloggers publicly mocked Goremykin’s false claim and marveled at the ability of the Russian MoD to continue denying obvious logistical problems. One Russian military blogger claimed that the Russian MoD prioritizes “attempts to create an external gloss” above the lives of soldiers and above the need to win.[73] Another military blogger stated that it is no longer possible to replace reality with beautiful reports.[74] Blatantly false claims decrease general belief in the credibility of the Russian MoD and contribute to the growing narrative of MoD incompetence.
Russian authorities appear to be avoiding prosecution of men avoiding military summonses. Russian lawyer Pavel Chikov posted to Telegram on October 7 that the Penza Prosecutor’s Office canceled the first criminal case for evasion of mobilization under Article 328 of the Russian criminal code after launching the case two days before.[75] Federation Council Committee on Constitutional Legislation and State Building Head Andrey Klishas stated on October 7 that it is unlawful to threaten citizens with criminal liability under Article 328 for refusal to mobilize.[76] Such responses could represent a response to public pressure or challenges in prosecuting all mobilization dodgers. They could also represent the desire to try mobilization dodgers under alternative articles or continue attempts to force dodgers to mobilize rather than sit in prison.
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Russian and occupation administration officials continued to increase filtration and law enforcement measures in Russian-occupied territories on October 8. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on October 8 that Russian forces continue filtration activities near positions struck by Ukrainian forces to find suspected Ukrainian partisans that they believe to be providing Ukrainian forces with the positions of Russian manpower and equipment concentrations.[77] Russian media reported that Russian forces in Russian-occupied Melitopol have increased street inspections of residents’ documents.[78] The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian and occupation administration officials launched a Telegram chatbot for reports on the location of Ukrainian partisans in the Russian-occupied territories.[79] The center also reported that Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) personnel increasingly question residents in filtration centers about their participation in the annexation referenda that were held in Russian-occupied territories in late September.[80] Mayor of Melitopol Ivan Fedorov claimed that occupation administration officials are deporting residents with pro-Ukrainian sentiments and transporting them to the Vasylivka border checkpoint, but that Russian forces are still not allowing residents to pass through into Ukrainian-held Zaporizhia Oblast.[81] Russian and occupation administration officials are likely to increase filtration and law enforcement activities as Ukrainian counteroffensives progress.
Russian and occupation administration officials continued measures to remove Ukrainian children from their homes in Russian-occupied territories on October 8. The Head of the Kherson Occupation Administration Vladimir Saldo reported that Russian-occupied Crimea agreed to take over 5,000 children from Kherson Oblast “on vacation” and that 1,500 of those children have already arrived in Crimea.[82] Vladimir Saldo also announced that the governors of Krasnodar Krai and Stavropol Krai stated that their administrations are ready to accept up to 10,000 children from Kherson Oblast. Saldo did not specify a duration for such offers or “vacations.”[83] Vladimir Saldo stated that the children’s parents would be able to join their children in the territories to which they are sent.[84]


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> FSB is not intelligence. De jure, they are a russian MI5. But in practice it's a multitool for, well..., anything Putin wants.


FSB was modelled after FBI IIRC (and FBI is modelled from MI5)

FSB is not a security agency.......


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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Putin carousel runs fast. army general Sergej Surowikin, “hero of Russia”, replaced Alexander Dwornikow, the butcher of Syria.
> 
> Surowikin should turn the tide of the war.
> mission impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Der „Schlächter von Syrien“, Alexander Dwornikow (l.) und sein Nachfolger als Chef der russischen Truppen in der Ukraine, Sergey Surowikin



To begin with, he is not even an army man. He is airforce, and he will be commanding land troops



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579148356458524674



As russian controlled area shrinks, they have less space to hide their big long lange stuff.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> To begin with, he is not even an army man. He is airforce, and he will be commanding land troops
> 
> 
> 
> As russian controlled area shrinks, they have less space to hide their big long lange stuff.


Watching DOD and British Military Intelligence Briefing. Now I think the stacking in Orikhiv make sense. 

The Ukrainian has been stealth stacking Orikhiv, which is opposite to the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant. With the Bridge damage, they can't run rail supply line to supply even remotely the same amount from Russia over Kerch Bridge anymore, any supplies now need to run thru A-Road from Mariupol to Melitopol and into Crimea and Kherson. Which mean if this land route were interruped, then basically that's game over for Kherson because a damaged bridge couple with ferry cannot ferry nearly enough supples for both Kherson and Crimea, something gotta give, and Russia will no doubt have to give up Kherson. 

That's why we are seeing 6 Brigade in that line opposite to Melitopol, a direct run from Orikhiv to Melitopol is only 80km, even shorter than from NE Kherson to Kherson. I suspect that is what the Ukrainian reserve was deployed, they may try to have a run toward Melitopol.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579287328866328577

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## aviator_fan

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> US is selling gas to Germany at 4 times the price of the Russia gas and 7 times the price of the gas in the US.
> 
> This is a masterstroke by the US. This is why I love the US.
> 
> US is the undisputed super power of the world.


And US is consumer is paying several x times of price before EUrope's war started.

It was not US that told Germany to focus on Russia for its energy needs, not build LNG infrastructure (including terminals) and have other suppliers. Those were all German's own doing for love with Putin.

So of course if US is going to send surplus gas its going to send it for higher than what its own consumers pay for. This is the same in all energy producing countries.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia can just print money to finance war. Russia has lots of trees to make paper to print money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will Russia’s Forests Be an Asset or an Obstacle in Climate Fight?
> 
> 
> New research indicating Russia’s vast forests store more carbon than previously estimated would seem like good news. But scientists are concerned Russia will count this carbon uptake as an offset in its climate commitments, which would allow its emissions to continue unchecked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> e360.yale.edu


Are you on some sort of opioids or some medicine? You do know that in modern day when they say a country can print money, they are not referring to it physically cutting down trees and printing money?

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## aviator_fan

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Merkel: Europe Can Achieve Lasting Peace Only with Russia​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Omnia Ahmed
> 
> 10:28 AM October 7, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
> 
> 
> Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel stressed, on Thursday, that lasting peace in Europe can be reached only with the involvement of Russia, DPA news reported.​During her speech at a ceremony dedicated to the 77th anniversary of the Suddeutsche Zeitung newspaper in Munich, Merkel affirmed that the Cold War will go on until a lasting peace is achieved with the help of Russia.
> In addition, the former chancellor pointed out that the current situation in Ukraine was a “turning point”, reiterating that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s words should be taken very seriously.
> “We all are strongly advised to take the words seriously rather than classify them as a bluff from the very start,” Merkel said.
> “Taking words seriously, not dismissing them from the outset as just a bluff, but dealing with them seriously is by no means a sign of weakness or appeasement, but a sign of political wisdom – a wisdom that helps to maintain room for maneuver or, at least as important, even to develop new ones,” she noted in previous remarks.
> 
> Last week, Merkel highlighted the need to work with Moscow on a pan-European security architecture amid the Nord Stream gas leaks.
> Merkel tried to improve relations with Russia and supported the Nord Stream-2 gas pipeline construction project. She also noted that Germany currently has “no reason to be complacent,” adding that this crisis could be surpassed with sufficient strength and self-confidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merkel: Europe Can Achieve Lasting Peace Only with Russia
> 
> 
> Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel stressed, on Thursday, that lasting peace in Europe can be reached only with the involvement
> 
> 
> 
> see.news


Putin was very much in the western fold and this is the time Merkel remembers: where Putin and Kremlin made money, took that money and put it in the west, go from rich to richer and shake hands at G8/G20 summits for the last 20 years. It was on this basis that Europe thought they had a good thing going. Thugs get richer and their enemy doesn't threaten.

Even after 2014 annexation followed by downing of an airliner, they thought the worst could not come but they should have realized that the world was going to be different. Instead Putin kept on getting benefit of doubt.

Merkel had enough sway over Putin that when Alexei Navalny was poisoned, she got him to Germany for treatment in 2020. Thats how the world went then.
​

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Watching DOD and British Military Intelligence Briefing. Now I think the stacking in Orikhiv make sense.
> 
> The Ukrainian has been stealth stacking Orikhiv, which is opposite to the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant. With the Bridge damage, they can't run rail supply line to supply even remotely the same amount from Russia over Kerch Bridge anymore, any supplies now need to run thru A-Road from Mariupol to Melitopol and into Crimea and Kherson. Which mean if this land route were interruped, then basically that's game over for Kherson because a damaged bridge couple with ferry cannot ferry nearly enough supples for both Kherson and Crimea, something gotta give, and Russia will no doubt have to give up Kherson.
> 
> That's why we are seeing 6 Brigade in that line opposite to Melitopol, a direct run from Orikhiv to Melitopol is only 80km, even shorter than from NE Kherson to Kherson. I suspect that is what the Ukrainian reserve was deployed, they may try to have a run toward Melitopol.


Melitopol is something we mentioned about in possible counter offensive early in the war besides Kharkiv and Kherson.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579247932200869889


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> I have been thinking about that myself.
> 
> Look at it from several different factors. This is what we do in the Miliary for Damage Assessment, and most likely what the Russian is doing now.
> 
> 1.) How much explosive to have taken out one entire road bridge, damage another, and damage to the Train and Train Track next to it?
> 
> 2.) Was it one explosion or two?
> 
> 3.) How does the bomb get in position? And how that affect the bombing.
> 
> 4.) How much Damage assessment was done, co-related to the location of bombing.
> 
> Now, if we can answer all these question, then we probably have a good idea how they pull this off. So let's start
> 
> 1.) Explosion taken out one entire section of the bridge is not small, and the damage it had done is quite big, I would say it is at least 1000 pound explosion involved, may be more, so a few things are going t be out of question, since we didn't see any pillar was damaged or destroyed, we can rule out C4 on load bearing beam, we can also rule out any thing from below because there were no blast damage from the joint that was exposed. And the surface of the bridge have a radiated and larger burnt mark than the side of the bridge, as the two photos below
> 
> View attachment 885902
> View attachment 885903
> 
> 
> I can say for certain (90%+ Certainty), this is a roadside det of a 1000 pound or more device.
> 
> 2.) If we look at the first picture of the rail bridge, you can see the side and the pillar underneat the train are both blackened, and suffered fire damage. Which suggest the fireball of the road bridge burn up and toward the rail bridge. Now I can't say for sure someone didn't just put C4 on the burned pillar and it just didn't go down, don't have enough data for that, but I would found it strange if they do send frogman to mine the rail bridge, why not do the same with the road bridge? So I found that unlikely, and based on that, I would conclude with potential certainty (50-60%) that this is a single bomb.
> 
> 3.) The bridge have X-ray to scan trucks and car on both ends, whether or not they are probably done, or has been done at all are unknown, so I cannot comment on that. However, if this is a truck bomb, and this is more or less maximum damage, then I don't think it is likely this is a truck bomb without the driver knowing because you have to be very lucky to have all the things line up without direct control of the driver. The bomb has to be detonated on the middle stretch of the bridge and has to be next to the railway with a fuel train on top. 10 seconds before or after would have change the damage matrix a lot because you will be detonating the bomb on top of a pillar, most likely weaken the road bridge but not taking it down, and 10 second would mean you will be 800 meters forward or backward from the train, which will not consume the train, I have ZERO doubt this is a coordinated strike, too much co-incident to have it a blind sabotage, a "Hope and Pray" style strike, if this is a truck bomb, the driver HAVE TO BE IN THE KNOW.
> 
> So what other delivery method? If not truck or car bomb?
> 
> It can be a hit and run scoop from SF. A few frogman team using submersible and get all the way out to Kerch Bridge without being detected. Lay explosive on the bridge but as I explained, this is more likely a surface det, which mean the Frogman would have to work on the road surface with full view of Russian and motor traffic, this is unlikely.
> 
> The bomb on the train? Most likely not, an explosive this big would have disintegrate the train. Or at least blow it off the bridge, if the train have the bomb, the train will not be on the track afterward. So no, I don't believe so.
> 
> Missile? The only missile remotely able to reach the bridge is Ballistic Missile, but it's hard to hit the specific point with old Russian technology, either ATACMS or US supplies ballistic missile could do the trick, but there are no record of any transfer, however, I have suspected US or Western Country has been working on upgrade on Ukrainian Missile stock, maybe integrate it into Western Guidance system, that would give them range and accuracy to pin point attack. Especially so after Ukrainian sink Moskva and the ammo dump and airfield attack in Crimea.
> 
> 4.) As explained before, this is probably the maximum damaged across the entire bridge, there are no part of the bridge were not damaged, and some part of the bridge was seriously damaged.
> 
> This is highly likely a coordinated strike, intel between the train and how and when such attack occur will not be notified by the Russian. This is not some mad ram suicide attack, the traffic was moving as usual before the attack, which mean this is out of nowhere by the Ukrainian, meaning they have way to get around the Russian defences on the bridge.
> 
> With all the info, I can conclude This is Highly Likely a suicide VBIED type attack, or a Missile Strike, less likely it is SF Direct Action op (SF would still be involved, just not on the ground) highly unlikely this is an unorganised attack. They have been planning this for a while.


Any chance this was an accident? The direction the truck was going was from Russia to Crimea. Could be another mishandling of explosives and attempt to hide it in the truck while transporting it to the Russian forces. Would be more embarrassing.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Any chance this was an accident? The direction the truck was going was from Russia to Crimea. Could be another mishandling of explosives and attempt to hide it in the truck while transporting it to the Russian forces. Would be more embarrassing.



Yes and if a nuke just so happens to explode in Kiev Russians will claim it was an accident.


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## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Yes and if a nuke just so happens to explode in Kiev Russians will claim it was an accident.


Russians claimed they had an accident at the air base in Crimea so could have happened again.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Russians claimed they had an accident at the air base in Crimea so could have happened again.



Yes and if a nuke explodes in NYC Russians will say it was an accident.


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## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Yes and if a nuke explodes in NYC Russians will say it was an accident.


Yeah and if there are multiple nuclear explosions around all of Russia's cities, the U.S. could say it was an accident.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Melitopol is something we mentioned about in possible counter offensive early in the war besides Kharkiv and Kherson.


Yeah, but then it wouldn't make sense as a standalone op, because you need to either took Kherson or break thru from Donetsk to get that line rolling. 

But with the line gone, they would have to double or event triple the effort to resupply Kherson and Crimea, and it would have been a decisive blow if Ukraine attack toward Melitopol now, that would cut the supply line to Western part of the battlefield.


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Yeah, but then it wouldn't make sense as a standalone op, because you need to either took Kherson or break thru from Donetsk to get that line rolling.
> 
> But with the line gone, they would have to double or event triple the effort to resupply Kherson and Crimea, and it would have been a decisive blow if Ukraine attack toward Melitopol now, that would cut the supply line to Western part of the battlefield.


Probably waiting for more progress in Kherson before making a flanking attack? So that way the Russians fleeing realize they are caught between a rock and a hard place.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Any chance this was an accident? The direction the truck was going was from Russia to Crimea. Could be another mishandling of explosives and attempt to hide it in the truck while transporting it to the Russian forces. Would be more embarrassing.


well, everything can happen, it's just what are the chances. 

When you combine timing (Near Winter with Ukraine trying to crack Kherson, and on Putin B-day no less?), and damage not only a bridge got destroyed but also the rail bridge was damage because a fuel train was convincedly just happened to be there right next to the explosion? 

Well, either it is pre-planned, or Ukrainian just hit the jackpot in Vegas.....That's Intelligence Operator paradise to hit that score, it's like a trifactor and I don't believe in Ukrainian score that many lucky moment...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah and if there are multiple nuclear explosions around all of Russia's cities, the U.S. could say it was an accident.



Sure. Why not? They are all a bunch of mad men at this point.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Probably waiting for more progress in Kherson before making a flanking attack? So that way the Russians fleeing realize they are caught between a rock and a hard place.


This is probably not about aiming at the fleeing Russian, I would think they try to hit the Russian where it hurt. Again, winter is coming, and if I tell you now you will only receive 1/2 or even 1/3 of supplies?? Your morale sinks..

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> This is probably not about aiming at the fleeing Russian, I would think they try to hit the Russian where it hurt. Again, winter is coming, and if I tell you now you will only receive 1/2 or even 1/3 of supplies?? Your morale sinks..


Added bonus when Russians realize what's happening there and start fleeing soon to Crimea because it gets closed.


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## Oldman1

@jhungary 

Any chance of more M113s for off road to handle the winter? Think the Ukrainians will still be busy.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> Any chance of more M113s for off road to handle the winter? Think the Ukrainians will still be busy.


Think the Dutch, the Dane, Spanish, Portugese, Australian, and American already gave them 400 M113 to Ukraine. IIRC. That's probably enough for now. That's like 3 division worth of M113...I mean even Australia and Canada do not have that number in service...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Think the Dutch, the Dane, Spanish, Portugese, Australian, and American already gave them 400 M113 to Ukraine. IIRC. That's probably enough for now. That's like 3 division worth of M113...I mean even Australia and Canada do not have that number in service...



M113 has high engine breakdown rate. Even if there were 400 of these delivered, more than half are lost to engine breakdown within a few months.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> no i say there was a secondary explosion after the truck exploded when the video switch to the control room monitor you see it . and there is only 1-2sec distance the train driver had no time to stop before the second explosion .
> that can mean one thing the train was stationary or stopped one tanker get exploded
> now look at the photo you post . it show the burning train is exactly adjacent to were the road bridge is fallen and the lorry exploded , it only mean one thing , the train for some reason was stationary at the time of explosion otherwise before stop it had moved 1-2 hundred meter at least


Still the explosion comes from the right of the lorry, while the train is to the left of the lorry. It is not the train exploding 1-2 seconds after the initial explosion,


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## khansaheeb

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Yes and if a nuke just so happens to explode in Kiev Russians will claim it was an accident.


Nuke doesn't even have to explode , all Russia has to do is tell the Kiev citizens that Russia is going to nuke the city and they should evacuate, you will then get around 2 million people exodus of the city which will block the Ukrainian supply routes and force Ukraine to negotiate.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Petrol, Diesel or any form of liquid follow gravitational pull, if fuel on that train spill over the bridge, they will gather on the edge that closer to the ground, that's because the gravity pull the liquid to the bottom edge. Which mean burn mark on the top side is a lot longer than the burn mark on bottom, and as you can see it is the opposite on the photo, the burn mark underneat the bridge is longer than the burn mark on top. Which mean the undercarriage were burn more than the top, which suggest the flame is under that part of the bridge, instead of on top of that bridge.
> 
> You can try that at home, fill a lunch box with water and watch it fill to the rim and spill, when it spills it does not spill along the entire edge of the side of that lunch box, it spills at one point.


honestly i don't understand whats the point here , if you are talking about burn mark on the pillar , its top was completely on fire at some time if you mean on top of railroad bridge well it was on fire so its natural it get charred all i see is burn mark on places the fuel split


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Still the explosion comes from the right of the lorry, while the train is to the left of the lorry. It is not the train exploding 1-2 seconds after the initial explosion,


look at the video when it cut to security camera on monitor it clearly show a big first explosion and then after 1-2 sec a small second explosion . the first explosion come exactly at were the lorry was . i cant say it was its left or right , how you can tell that ? the second explosion clearly happened out of the field of view

the second explosion is probably damaged tankers , nothing else i'm aware of exploded that night . and as the train exactly is adjacent to the place the lorry exploded it show that it was stationary and not moving


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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> look at the video when it cut to security camera on monitor it clearly show a big first explosion and then after 1-2 sec a small second explosion . the first explosion come exactly at were the lorry was . i cant say it was its left or right , how you can tell that ? the second explosion clearly happened out of the field of view
> 
> the second explosion is probably damaged tankers , nothing else i'm aware of exploded that night . and as the train exactly is adjacent to the place the lorry exploded it show that it was stationary and not moving


What caused the second explosion? It can’t be the truck, can it? That would mean the truck exploded twice which is implausible.


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## Viet

From the news today. 700,000 russians flee Russia to avoid draft. That makes sense why dying in a worthless war.
The EU becomes a military bloc. She wants to train 15,000 Ukraine soldiers.
Main training bases should be Germany and Poland. Ukraine army would be trained in combat against potential ABC weapons.








Kharkiv (Ukraine), 06/10/2022.- Ukrainian servicemen prepare to shoot from a captured Russian 152.4 mm howitzer Msta-B on a front line near the Kupyansk city of Kharkiv's area, Ukraine, 06 October 2022 amid Russia's military invasion. The Ukrainian army pushed Russian troops from occupied territory in the northeast of the country in a counterattack. Kharkiv and surrounding areas have been the target of heavy shelling since February 2022, when Russian troops entered Ukraine starting a conflict that has provoked destruction and a humanitarian crisis. (Atentado, Rusia, Ucrania) EFE/EPA/SERGEY KOZLOV





__





EU-Staaten wollen ukrainische Soldaten ausbilden - ZDFheute


Abwehr chemischer, biologischer und nuklearer Waffen, Umgang mit Cyberangriffen: Die EU-Staaten wollen Tausende ukrainische Soldaten ausbilden.




amp.zdf.de


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> What caused the second explosion? It can’t be the truck, can it? That would mean the truck exploded twice which is implausible.


probably damaged fuel tanks on the train , maybe a small bomb on the train


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## fatman17

Forwarded:

I wish every single person in the West would listen to Putin's speech. Obviously, that won't happen so let me summarise as a professional translator for 10+ years. He states, as he has done from the outset, what his intentions and complaints are in the plainest terms possible

Setting aside his brief comments on the recent "referendums", he spends most of his speech discussing the West. His primary complaint isn't NATO expansion, which gets only a cursory mention. The West is greedy and seeks to enslave and colonise other nations, like Russia.

The West uses the power of finance and technology to enforce its will on other nations. To collect what he calls the "hegemon's tax". To this end the West destabilises countries, creates terrorist enclaves and most of all seeks to deprive other countries of sovereignty.

It is this "avarice" and desire to preserve its power that is the reason for the "hybrid war" the collective West is "waging on Russia". They want us to be a "colony". They do not want us to be free, they want Russians to be a mob of soulless slaves - direct quote.

The rules-based order the West goes on about is "nonsense". Who made these rules? Who agreed to them? Russia is an ancient country and civilization and we will not play by these "rigged" rules. The West has no moral authority to challenge the referendums because it has violated...the borders of other countries. Western elites are "totalitarian, despotic and apartheidistic" - direct quote. They are racist against Russia and other countries and nations. "Russophobia is racism". They discriminate by calling themselves the "civilised world".

They colonised, started the global slave trade, genocided native Americans, pillaged India and Africa, forced China to buy opium through war. We, on the other hand, are proud that we "led" the anti-colonial movement that helped countries develop to reduce poverty and inequality.

They are Russophobic (they hate us) because we didn't allow our country to be pillaged by creating a strong CENTRALISED (emphasis his) state based on Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism. They have been trying to destabilise our country since the 17th century in the Times......of Trouble (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_T…). Eventually, they managed to "get their hands on our riches" at the end of the 20th century. They called us friends and partners while pumping out trillions of dollars (his irony game is strong today).

We remember this. We didn't forget. The West claims to bring freedom and democracy to other countries but it's the exact opposite of the truth. The unipolar world is anti-democratic by its very nature. It is a lie. They used nuclear weapons, creating a precedent. They flattened German cities without "any military need to do so". There was no need for this except to scare us and the rest of the world. Korea, Vietnam. To this day they "occupy" Japan, South Korea and Germany and other countries while cynically calling them "allies".

The West has surveillance over the leaders of these nations who "swallow these insults like the slaves they are".

He then talks about bioweapon research (haven't heard about them for a while) and human experiments "including in Ukraine".

The US rules the world by the power of the fist. Any country which seeks to challenge Western hegemony becomes an enemy. Their neocolonialism is cloaked in lies like "containment" of Russia, China and Iran. The concept of truth has been destroyed with fakes and extreme......propaganda(irony game still strong).

You cannot feed your people with printed dollars and social media. You need food and energy. But Western elites have no desire to find a solution to the food and energy crises *they* (emphasis his) created.

They solved the problems at the start of 20c with WW1 and the US established dominance of the world via the dollar as a result of WW2. In the 80s they had another crisis they solved by "plundering our country". Now they want to solve their problems by "breaking Russia".

Russia "understands its responsibility to the international community" and will "do everything to cool the heads of these neocolonials who are destined to fail".

They're crazy. I want to speak to all Russian citizens, do we want to replace mum and dad with parent 1 and 2?

They invented genders and claim you can "transition". Do we want this for our children? 

We have a different vision.

They have abandoned religion and embraced Satanism - direct quote.

The world is going through a revolutionary transformation. A multipolar world offers nations freedom to develop as they wish and they make up the majority of the world.

We have many like-minded friends in Western countries. We see and appreciate their support. They are forming liberation, anti-colonial movements as we speak - direct quote. These will only grow.

We are fighting for a fair world for our country. The idea of exceptionalism is criminal and we must turn this shameful page. The breaking of the West's hegemony is INEVITABLE (emphasis his).

There is no going back. We are fighting for our "great (as in big), historic Russia". Our values are (irony game crescendo): love of our fellow man, compassion and mercy.

Truth is with us, Russia is with us.

That's the end of the speech. As I said from day 1, the purpose of what Putin is doing in Ukraine is to throw the West off its pedestal. This isn't about NATO or Ukraine, this is the big play to replace the current world order.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> probably damaged fuel tanks on the train , maybe a small bomb on the train


Fuel tanks don’t explode per se.To get them explode fuels need high oxygen density. What is less likely. The first explosion consumed most of oxygen in the air.
I believe the second explosion was caused by a charge that was attached to the bridge. Or could be a bomb on the train.


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## Cash GK

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I claimed that England did not do anything similar to the Holocaust.
> 
> You lying about the number of people starving to death in Iran does not change that.
> Claming that 12-15 million Iranians died of starvation during WWII, when the population of Iran was 12-15 million during WWII is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Russian logistics is based on railways, not on trucks.


Go and read 1856 event around 3 millones Indians got killed by British forces

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## Viet

Ukrainian servicemen shoot from a captured Russian 152.4 mm howitzer Msta-B on a front line near the Kupyansk city of Kharkiv’s area, Ukraine, 06 October 2022. EFE/EPA/SERGEY KOZLOV


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## BHAN85

Facts:

1. Someone blow up nordstreams pipes
2. Putin blames "the anglosaxons" (a ethnicity, do you imagine he blaming "the jews" or "the blacks"?)
3. Russia does nothing, because "the anglosaxons" can defend themselves

1. Someone blow up a truck in the Crimea bridge
2. Putin blames "Ukraine Secret Service"
3. Russia bombs Ukraine Secret Service HQ street in Kyiv, I guess they wanted to bomb the building, but their missile guidance is crappy and it failed

Kremlin cowardice is astonishing.









Russia-Ukraine war live: Kyiv hit by missiles as several Ukrainian cities come under Russian attack


Blasts rock centre of Ukrainian capital for first time in months; fears that Kremlin plans escalation of war




www.theguardian.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579345753860091904

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## James David

ziaulislam said:


> For most of Asians Hitler did nothing wrong..


WT F are you talking about? The whole world knows Hitler is a bad dude. Seriously man!

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## Cash GK

aviator_fan said:


> What did you expect: Western Europe and Ukrainians to act like p**sys and just welcome Putin and just give up because some theory on future generation being radicilized vs. a sure disaster for them to live under Putin (whoever can afford to leave has left Russia)? Your logic is one of a spineless whimp.
> 
> European GDPs are in Trillions, they can afford to spend tens of billions. Russia went into to take over Kiev, and install a Govt friendly to them. A 10 year old following Russia's propaganda and actions would know that. They have regressed from that goal to holding 15% , and on that they have to mobilize the entire country. So complete humiliation by virtue of its own actions.
> 
> May be you have been brainwashed too much: had Russia had the brains and used its energy (instead of brainwashing its sympathizers) , it would have gone in with a goal of protecting its supposed 'ethnic' population and just gone in to the 15% of land and would have some worldly prestige and retained more of its military and called it a day.
> 
> Instead it has degenerate people like you in a minority thinking its the victor when Kremlin's own insiders think that the Army brass should be put in front of a firing squad


Oky genius! Let's start from unification of Germany events. What was agreed by German Chancellor US and soviet leaders.
Unification of journey was agreed on one principle principle That Allied forces will not go into the East Germany Later Allied forces went into the East Germany Lithuania Georgia Poland turkey keep extending to their borders.As we all know putin was there in East Germany as kgb official and he is main witness of that agreement when he demands to fullfil that agreement. I believe he as right. You know when nato got into the 🇹🇷 turkey.they blocked black sea for Russian. When nato got into Spain. Nato blocked Chablalter for them. British n French sea was already blocked for them. Soviet or Russian sea as we all know it is frozen for 8 months a year. Biggest country on planet it needs sea routes to trade with world. It is like if I park my car infront of your doorstep for 40 years what will you do..
Now come to Cuban Missile crisis. Do you know why it had happened. Because USA had installed atomic bombs and its misiles defence systems in Turkey and soviet Retaliated with cuban missil installment. When soviet installed those missile near US borders. US started crying like Prostitute.
If we follow the example of cuban missile crisis and amaraicn reaction. Then give right to Russians to defend their mother land when nato keep Extending to their borders on American behalf.
You know what cost soviet paid being Blocked in Turkish spanish franch British waters. They jumped in Afghanistan to have Access to warm waters. They thought if they go to European waters there will be world War 3. They thought Afghanistan n pakistan are much easy targets. Their Misscalculation cost them to lose 12 of its provinces including East Germany.
This time they took this risk to fight with Europe. They know if they did not stop amaraicns in Europe then their end is near as Russian nation.
End of story is with out knowing anything about Global politics. Dont jump in into discussions with harsh words.
Now look into the map how much territory they lost. Orange color they lost the land in green color it was their tread routes . Green color routes are blocked by nato..now they have 1 short route via Afghanistan and Pakistan and here comes removal of Imran khan by Americans. Do you understand what i mean. Same way they killed first pm of Pakistan. He was ready to give tread access to warm waters.


----------



## ZeGerman

fatman17 said:


> Forwarded:
> 
> I wish every single person in the West would listen to Putin's speech. Obviously, that won't happen so let me summarise as a professional translator for 10+ years. He states, as he has done from the outset, what his intentions and complaints are in the plainest terms possible
> 
> Setting aside his brief comments on the recent "referendums", he spends most of his speech discussing the West. His primary complaint isn't NATO expansion, which gets only a cursory mention. The West is greedy and seeks to enslave and colonise other nations, like Russia.


Putin dreams of reinstating russian empire. Which colonises others. russia are the ones now acting like an agressive imperialist colonizer. And against a country that went through the holodomir…..

Russia takes from goebbels playbook. Accuse others that which you are guilty of. 




fatman17 said:


> The West uses the power of finance and technology to enforce its will on other nations. To collect what he calls the "hegemon's tax". To this end the West destabilises countries, creates terrorist enclaves and most of all seeks to deprive other countries of sovereignty.


Ukraine was a sovereign state.
Russia guaranteed its security if it gave up nukes…

Also “west” is a almost racist generalisation of what basicaly are dozens of nations. 
Far from a simple “hegemon”

Germany and france kept their hands open towards russia…russia refused to take the road of trade and diplomacy. 


fatman17 said:


> It is this "avarice" and desire to preserve its power that is the reason for the "hybrid war" the collective West is "waging on Russia". They want us to be a "colony". They do not want us to be free, they want Russians to be a mob of soulless slaves - direct quote.
> 
> The rules-based order the West goes on about is "nonsense". Who made these rules? Who agreed to them? Russia is an ancient country and civilization and we will not play by these "rigged" rules. The West has no moral authority to challenge the referendums because it has violated...the borders of other countries. Western elites are "totalitarian, despotic and apartheidistic" - direct quote. They are racist against Russia and other countries and nations. "Russophobia is racism". They discriminate by calling themselves the "civilised world".
> 
> They colonised, started the global slave trade, genocided native Americans, pillaged India and Africa, forced China to buy opium through war. We, on the other hand, are proud that we "led" the anti-colonial movement that helped countries develop to reduce poverty and inequality.


More accuse others that of which you are guilty of.
And at best “pot calling kettle black” justification. 


fatman17 said:


> They are Russophobic (they hate us) because we didn't allow our country to be pillaged by creating a strong CENTRALISED (emphasis his) state based on Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism. They have been trying to destabilise our country since the 17th century in the Times......of Trouble (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_T…). Eventually, they managed to "get their hands on our riches" at the end of the 20th century. They called us friends and partners while pumping out trillions of dollars (his irony game is strong today).
> 
> We remember this. We didn't forget. The West claims to bring freedom and democracy to other countries but it's the exact opposite of the truth. The unipolar world is anti-democratic by its very nature. It is a lie. They used nuclear weapons, creating a precedent. They flattened German cities without "any military need to do so". There was no need for this except to scare us and the rest of the world. Korea, Vietnam. To this day they "occupy" Japan, South Korea and Germany and other countries while cynically calling them "allies".
> 
> The West has surveillance over the leaders of these nations who "swallow these insults like the slaves they are".
> 
> He then talks about bioweapon research (haven't heard about them for a while) and human experiments "including in Ukraine".
> 
> The US rules the world by the power of the fist. Any country which seeks to challenge Western hegemony becomes an enemy. Their neocolonialism is cloaked in lies like "containment" of Russia, China and Iran. The concept of truth has been destroyed with fakes and extreme......propaganda(irony game still strong).
> 
> You cannot feed your people with printed dollars and social media. You need food and energy. But Western elites have no desire to find a solution to the food and energy crises *they* (emphasis his) created.
> 
> They solved the problems at the start of 20c with WW1 and the US established dominance of the world via the dollar as a result of WW2. In the 80s they had another crisis they solved by "plundering our country". Now they want to solve their problems by "breaking Russia".
> 
> Russia "understands its responsibility to the international community" and will "do everything to cool the heads of these neocolonials who are destined to fail".
> 
> They're crazy. I want to speak to all Russian citizens, do we want to replace mum and dad with parent 1 and 2?
> 
> They invented genders and claim you can "transition". Do we want this for our children?
> 
> We have a different vision.
> 
> They have abandoned religion and embraced Satanism - direct quote.
> 
> The world is going through a revolutionary transformation. A multipolar world offers nations freedom to develop as they wish and they make up the majority of the world.
> 
> We have many like-minded friends in Western countries. We see and appreciate their support. They are forming liberation, anti-colonial movements as we speak - direct quote. These will only grow.
> 
> We are fighting for a fair world for our country. The idea of exceptionalism is criminal and we must turn this shameful page. The breaking of the West's hegemony is INEVITABLE (emphasis his).
> 
> There is no going back. We are fighting for our "great (as in big), historic Russia". Our values are (irony game crescendo): love of our fellow man, compassion and mercy.
> 
> Truth is with us, Russia is with us.
> 
> That's the end of the speech. As I said from day 1, the purpose of what Putin is doing in Ukraine is to throw the West off its pedestal. This isn't about NATO or Ukraine, this is the big play to replace the current world order.



Putin though he could for another crimea 2014 and quickly take whole or half of ukraine into its power. A short “special operation”

When that failed he is now making it seem like they struggle against the entire Nato might. Ofcourse this is to sell the war to internal public and explain why it has run into so many delays and challenges. 

Russia elites love spending their billions in the west. Living the luxury life….no “culture war” then…..

It was a deranged..desperate speech really…

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> honestly i don't understand whats the point here , if you are talking about burn mark on the pillar , its top was completely on fire at some time if you mean on top of railroad bridge well it was on fire so its natural it get charred all i see is burn mark on places the fuel split


The top part has a longer burn mark than the lower part if that's from spilling burn fuel, those burn fuel will gather at one spot and drop into the sea, which mean the shape of burn out fuel fire would be in a Funnel Shape, it's not the case here. 

The charred part underneath is obviously longer than the top part of the bridge. Which mean the flame are engulfing the lower part than radiate to the top part of the bridge, by the way, fuel fire is flash fire, you don't have a long burn mark if you just leak burning fuel, because burning fuel still a liquid it will move toward the lower center of gravity. It simple don't stay and scotch the area, because the fuel would have flow away


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## Cash GK

ZeGerman said:


> Putin dreams of reinstating russian empire. Which colonises others. russia are the ones now acting like an agressive imperialist colonizer. And against a country that went through the holodomir…..
> 
> Russia takes from goebbels playbook. Accuse others that which you are guilty of.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine was a sovereign state.
> Russia guaranteed its security if it gave up nukes…
> 
> Also “west” is a almost racist generalisation of what basicaly are dozens of nations.
> Far from a simple “hegemon”
> 
> Germany and france kept their hands open towards russia…russia refused to take the road of trade and diplomacy.
> 
> More accuse others that of which you are guilty of.
> And at best “pot calling kettle black” justification.
> 
> 
> Putin though he could for another crimea 2014 and quickly take whole or half of ukraine into its power. A short “special operation”
> 
> When that failed he is now making it seem like they struggle against the entire Nato might. Ofcourse this is to sell the war to internal public and explain why it has run into so many delays and challenges.
> 
> Russia elites love spending their billions in the west. Living the luxury life….no “culture war” then…..
> 
> It was a deranged..desperate speech really…


So when france is giving freedom to 12 of African countries. You forgetting what Italian milani said about France recently. come on guys how you do these things shamelessly lol

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## fatman17

ZeGerman said:


> Putin dreams of reinstating russian empire. Which colonises others. russia are the ones now acting like an agressive imperialist colonizer. And against a country that went through the holodomir…..
> 
> Russia takes from goebbels playbook. Accuse others that which you are guilty of.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine was a sovereign state.
> Russia guaranteed its security if it gave up nukes…
> 
> Also “west” is a almost racist generalisation of what basicaly are dozens of nations.
> Far from a simple “hegemon”
> 
> Germany and france kept their hands open towards russia…russia refused to take the road of trade and diplomacy.
> 
> More accuse others that of which you are guilty of.
> And at best “pot calling kettle black” justification.
> 
> 
> Putin though he could for another crimea 2014 and quickly take whole or half of ukraine into its power. A short “special operation”
> 
> When that failed he is now making it seem like they struggle against the entire Nato might. Ofcourse this is to sell the war to internal public and explain why it has run into so many delays and challenges.
> 
> Russia elites love spending their billions in the west. Living the luxury life….no “culture war” then…..
> 
> It was a deranged..desperate speech really…


Obviously we know your well versed sentiments based on western media propaganda.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Fuel tanks don’t explode per se.To get them explode fuels need high oxygen density. What is less likely. The first explosion consumed most of oxygen in the air.
> I believe the second explosion was caused by a charge that was attached to the bridge. Or could be a bomb on the train.


if the tankers are filled , very unlikely for them to explode but if its 2/3rd filled and 1/3rd empty then thats an option , we don\t knew if the fuel cargo was tampered with or not


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## Ali_Baba

*Russia commits further Terrorism in Ukraine *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579354378716053504

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## Vergennes

Chechens against Kadirovtsi



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579360160761679872


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## ZeGerman

Cash GK said:


> So when france is giving freedom to 12 of African countries. You forgetting what Italian milani said about France recently. come on guys how you do these things shamelessly lol


So because france colonised in the past and is mistreating african countries still…that gives russia the right to colonize ukraine? 

Weird logic….



fatman17 said:


> Obviously we know your well versed sentiments based on western media propaganda.


I have heard the “anti western” propaganda long enough.

What usa/uk did in past has **** all to do with giving russia a free pass to opress and colonize eastern europe…again…

Read up on holodomir and katyn how “liberating” these sovereign states felt under russian boot.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> The top part has a longer burn mark than the lower part if that's from spilling burn fuel, those burn fuel will gather at one spot and drop into the sea, which mean the shape of burn out fuel fire would be in a Funnel Shape, it's not the case here.
> 
> The charred part underneath is obviously longer than the top part of the bridge. Which mean the flame are engulfing the lower part than radiate to the top part of the bridge, by the way, fuel fire is flash fire, you don't have a long burn mark if you just leak burning fuel, because burning fuel still a liquid it will move toward the lower center of gravity. It simple don't stay and scotch the area, because the fuel would have flow away


I see burn mark only places the tanker above is damaged








I only see burn mark on the pillars and down side of the bridge when the tanker above is damaged
this news from the euro-news show the extent of the fuel leakage better








Russia tightens security on Crimea bridge after huge blast


The crossing was built after Russia seized and annexed Crimea from Ukraine in violation of international law in 2014.




www.euronews.com


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## Vergennes

Ali_Baba said:


> *Russia commits further Terrorism in Ukraine *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579354378716053504



Russia despite being limited in number of cruise missiles decide to use them on random civilian infrastructures of no importance whatsoever instead of military targets. 

Typical Russian strategy to attack civilians when faced by a resisting adversary. (Syria,Chechnya,Afghanistan....) to cause terror and surrender while it actualy causes the opposite. The Ukrainians will never bow down. 

Hope it causes the west to send much more air defence systems to Ukraine. Shows again the failure of the RuAF as they have to use strategic bombers and cruise missiles to strike "targets" deep into Ukraine.

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## sparten

The Russians seem to finally be hitting hard.
If it had been an American attack, Kiyv would have been flattened by B52 and B1 in the first few days.

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## Cash GK

ZeGerman said:


> So because france colonised in the past and is mistreating african countries still…that gives russia the right to colonize ukraine?
> 
> Weird logic….
> 
> 
> I have heard the “anti western” propaganda long enough.
> 
> What usa/uk did in past has **** all to do with giving russia a free pass to opress and colonize eastern europe…again…
> 
> Read up on holodomir and katyn how “liberating” these sovereign states felt under russian boot.


First return the gold you stolen from liybia very recently and pay the money to African countries for Uranium which worth trillions stolen and still steeling from them. You attacked not long ago on libiya and stolen 700 tone gold alone from lybia and oil money I am not counting yet which is continually being stolen by France....how you guys do these things shamelessly. Russia has no right to attack other countries i agree. But you have no moral to tell the world how they do things.. but I strongly believe russia as every right to defend itself. I am angry on your duble standers. When last week 4 Palestinian kids were killed by Israeli forces. But you talking shit about iranin lady which die under police custody. Come on guys.....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579390597886271491

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> I see burn mark only places the tanker above is damaged
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only see burn mark on the pillars and down side of the bridge when the tanker above is damaged
> this news from the euro-news show the extent of the fuel leakage better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia tightens security on Crimea bridge after huge blast
> 
> 
> The crossing was built after Russia seized and annexed Crimea from Ukraine in violation of international law in 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com


On the first video at 0:15, did you not see the underneath the bridge is burn on the fuel car that was intact??


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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Russia despite being limited in number of cruise missiles decide to use them on random civilian infrastructures of no importance whatsoever instead of military targets.
> 
> Typical Russian strategy to attack civilians when faced by a resisting adversary. (Syria,Chechnya,Afghanistan....) to cause terror and surrender while it actualy causes the opposite. The Ukrainians will never bow down.
> 
> Hope it causes the west to send much more air defence systems to Ukraine. Shows again the failure of the RuAF as they have to use strategic bombers and cruise missiles to strike "targets" deep into Ukraine.


This is just like WW2 Germany in the Battle of Britain. Germany change from bombing airfield to bombing London after the Brit hit German town, which have no strategic value beside you can kill score of civilian. While that's horrible but that give RAF some respite and finally take Germany down and won the Battle of Britain for them, and Germany has to cancel operation sea lion 

There are absolutely no strategic value to hit Kyiv or other city, if Russia are going to use those missiles, they should have use them on the frontline, killing civilian does not help the military situation, it only inflames it. They are simply wasting those missiles on civilian population. And in turn make more Ukrainian join up to fight the Russian....

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579393813860470784


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## ZeGerman

Cash GK said:


> First return the gold you stolen from liybia very recently and pay the money to African countries for Uranium which worth trillions stolen and still steeling from them. You attacked not long ago on libiya and stolen 700 tone gold alone from lybia and oil money I am not counting yet which is continually being stolen by France....how you guys do these things shamelessly. Russia has no right to attack other countries i agree. But you have no moral to tell the world how they do things.. but I strongly believe russia as every right to defend itself. I am angry on your duble standers. When last week 4 Palestinian kids were killed by Israeli forces. But you talking shit about iranin lady which die under police custody. Come on guys.....


1. Stop lumping every white/westerner under 1 faceless “collective brain” and generalizing them to be blamed for the worst acts of individuals of that bloc. 

russia already destroyed 50 times the medical facilities in ukraine then even USA did. 
Russias afghanistan invasion saw millions dead vs an improve in life standard/expectancy under Nato occupation. 

So firstly bad things done by others do not justify russias aggression.
And secobdly, in comparison, russia has been more ruthless, so there is no double standard to speak out against that. 

And not just the west, look at how the UN almost unanimously disapproved russias annexation plans. 
Only pariah states support russia. Like Iran under the ayatollahs. Otherwise Busy beating their own women to death because of medieval interpretations on religion.

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## Cash GK

ZeGerman said:


> 1. Stop lumping every white/westerner under 1 faceless “collective brain” and generalizing them to be blamed for the worst acts of individuals of that bloc.
> 
> russia already destroyed 50 times the medical facilities in ukraine then even USA did.
> Russias afghanistan invasion saw millions dead vs an improve in life standard/expectancy under Nato occupation.
> 
> So firstly bad things done by others do not justify russias aggression.
> And secobdly, in comparison, russia has been more ruthless, so there is no double standard to speak out against that.
> 
> And not just the west, look at how the UN almost unanimously disapproved russias annexation plans.
> Only pariah states support russia. Like Iran under the ayatollahs. Otherwise Busy beating their own women to death because of medieval interpretations on religion.


. You did not asnwer my questions and still try to tell others about modalities. Nato attacked Iraq right? Afghanistan right?. You attacked lybia right?. . Answer those questions first.. UN is joke. It is Prostitute which works for USA uk France and Isreal. UN CAN notT DO NOTHING. Look at Kashmir and Palestine

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## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> 1. Stop lumping every white/westerner under 1 faceless “collective brain” and generalizing them to be blamed for the worst acts of individuals of that bloc.


That's literally what you have been doing since the start of this thread and the one before it...

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## RoadAmerica

James David said:


> WT F are you talking about? The whole world knows Hitler is a bad dude. Seriously man!


Hitler was epicly terrible but Mao was far worse and China censors that small tidbit.
Point is I’m sure many people think both were fine, those that deny history

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## Cash GK

RoadAmerica said:


> Hitler was epicly terrible but Mao was far worse and China censors that small tidbit.
> Point is I’m sure many people think both were fine, those that deny history


They're more worse than both. 3 million indigenous people were killed Heroshima nagasaki Vietnam Iraq Afghanistan Syria top of that 60 thousands Americans got killed by hands of Americans in last 30 years in mass shootings. Most brutal nation on planet.. what joke you guys are.. look who is talking..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579405389048971264


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## Primus

RoadAmerica said:


> Hitler was epicly terrible but Mao was far worse and China censors that small tidbit.
> Point is I’m sure many people think both were fine, those that deny history


*ahem* Stalin?

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579405389048971264


They should have asked the Ukrainian how to hit bridges..........

This is just embarrassing


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## Cash GK

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579405389048971264


Oh they must have learn from mighty franch and amaraicn how they destroyed Afghanistan Iraq Syria libiya.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> This is just like WW2 Germany in the Battle of Britain. Germany change from bombing airfield to bombing London after the Brit hit German town, which have no strategic value beside you can kill score of civilian. While that's horrible but that give RAF some respite and finally take Germany down and won the Battle of Britain for them, and Germany has to cancel operation sea lion
> 
> There are absolutely no strategic value to hit Kyiv or other city, if Russia are going to use those missiles, they should have use them on the frontline, killing civilian does not help the military situation, it only inflames it. They are simply wasting those missiles on civilian population. And in turn make more Ukrainian join up to fight the Russian....


Strategically dumb. Germany bombed English civil infra after British bombers attacked Berlin. Which caused minor damage however embarrassing for Germany. Putin made the same mistake.
Let’s him bomb kindergartens, schools, hospitals.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> On the first video at 0:15, did you not see the underneath the bridge is burn on the fuel car that was intact??


to me look all the burn marks are under the damaged tanker




also don't forget one thing , the side of the bridge was not solid it was a metal mesh . when 3-4 tanker damage there is natural that enough fuel spill on the ground and move and some of them pour from that mesh under the bridge


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## ZeGerman

Cash GK said:


> . You did not asnwer my questions and still try to tell others about modalities. Nato attacked Iraq right?


No. America did. Under falsehood of “weapons of mass destruction”. 
Countries like germany were opposed. 
Western view on american war in iraq was quite negative. 

Keep in mind that Saddam was a dictator gassing kurds and attacking kuwait. 



Cash GK said:


> Afghanistan right?.


Taliban sheltered terrorists after 9-11
The attack was done with minimal civilian casualties. Billions were pumped into state-building, hopsitals, basic infra. Life expectancy grew 10 years during nato was there….

If you want to cry about afghanistan, do so about russias invasion, which actually saw pipukation plummet and millions dead


Cash GK said:


> You attacked lybia right?. .


Another dictator pushed his luck. So some Nato countries took opportunity when he started killing civilians in a civil war. 

I preferred they didnt. But small change compared to russia trying to annex ukraine. 



Cash GK said:


> Answer those questions first.. UN is joke. It is Prostitute which works for USA uk France and Isreal. UN CAN notT DO NOTHING. Look at Kashmir and Palestine


“palestine” is peanuts compared to the armenian or bangladesh genocide. 
1 month ukraine saw more civilian deaths then 30 years palestine…

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579405743434129408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579411732795363329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579391032491659264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579365583228850176


----------



## Cash GK

ZeGerman said:


> No. America did. Under falsehood of “weapons of mass destruction”.
> Countries like germany were opposed.
> Western view on american war in iraq was quite negative.
> 
> Keep in mind that Saddam was a dictator gassing kurds and attacking kuwait.
> 
> 
> Taliban sheltered terrorists after 9-11
> The attack was done with minimal civilian casualties. Billions were pumped into state-building, hopsitals, basic infra. Life expectancy grew 10 years during nato was there….
> 
> If you want to cry about afghanistan, do so about russias invasion, which actually saw pipukation plummet and millions dead
> 
> Another dictator pushed his luck. So some Nato countries took opportunity when he started killing civilians in a civil war.
> 
> I preferred they didnt. But small change compared to russia trying to annex ukraine.
> 
> 
> “palestine” is peanuts compared to the armenian or bangladesh genocide.
> 1 month ukraine saw more civilian deaths then 30 years palestine…


Iraq and liybia were supper rich countries then saudia and Qatar. Go and see those countries are shit whol now after your imposed war.. you still defending attack on Iraq Syria libiya Palestinian Kashmir. That shows how dubleface bc idiot you are.
We dont give any one morality lesson.. as you accepted iraq did not had WMD. When you going to compensate them. Any Afghan was involved in 9/11?. Osama used to dine in wighthouse. He was the man who made usa solo supper power after defeating soviet in Afghanistan. So dont talk shit here. We not idiots like many in west. Brain size of chicken. Go read about petrol dollar economy and Wallstreet guys those who meet sadam and qadafi after arab Israel war with offer to protect their dictatorship if they sell petrol in dollars. Those dictators who are selling petrol in dollars they are best budy of west. Those refused they are under mud. You are ignorant n funny.. West sell one wine with three labels Democracy humenrights and terrorism. Where Iraqi Palestinian Kashmir lives are less important then Ukrainens.
You and your kind is birth of this media mafia.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579412542639976448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579414276284231680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579409923007729665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579405632742264833

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> to me look all the burn marks are under the damaged tanker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also don't forget one thing , the side of the bridge was not solid it was a metal mesh . when 3-4 tanker damage there is natural that enough fuel spill on the ground and move and some of them pour from that mesh under the bridge


You go to 0:13 and you can see the different between the area of undamaged car that was not burn, and the area of undamaged car that burn.

And it wouldn't matter, it will still lead to the lowest point on the mesh


----------



## ZeGerman

Cash GK said:


> Iraq and liybia was supper rich county then saudia Qatar. Go and see that countries are shit whol now..


Relatively wealthy with most money in hands of strongman dictator. 

sect/tribe violence and corruption were heavily ingrained into these societies. 
A unstable situation that was temporarily forced together by a dictator


Cash GK said:


> We dont give any one morality lesson.. as you accepted iraq did not had WMD. When you going compensate them.


Usa spent tens of billions on humanitarian and rebuild. 
They did remove a dictator that gassed his own civilians. And did not annex iraq either. 


Cash GK said:


> Any Afghan was involved in 9/11. Osama used dine in wighthouse. He was the man who made usa solo supper power after defeating soviet in Afghanistan. So talk shit here. We not idiots like many in west. Brain size of chicken


Osama used to be (one of the many) mudhjahedeen fighting russia however turned on america and attacked it with disgusting terrorism. Taliban sheltered him so could expect a reaction.

War itself had minimal collateral damage and billions were pumped to improve afghan life. My oh my so “evil”

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## Ali_Baba

*Russians BOMB German Consulate in Kyiv..*



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-63193124



German consulate hit in Kyiv missile strike​The building housing the German consulate in Kyiv was hit by a Russian missile strike, Reuters news agency quotes the Germany's foreign ministry as saying.
It is not clear if anyone was killed or injured in the attack, we'll bring you more information as and when it is available.

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## Cash GK

ZeGerman said:


> Relatively wealthy with most money in hands of strongman dictator.
> 
> sect/tribe violence and corruption were heavily ingrained into these societies.
> A unstable situation that was temporarily forced together by a dictator
> 
> Usa spent tens of billions on humanitarian and rebuild.
> They did remove a dictator that gassed his own civilians. And did not annex iraq either.
> 
> Osama used to be (one of the many) mudhjahedeen fighting russia however turned on america and attacked it with disgusting terrorism. Taliban sheltered him so could expect a reaction.
> 
> War itself had minimal collateral damage and billions were pumped to improve afghan life. My oh my so “evil”


Usa spent money where? Did you ever go to those countries which were destroyed by west. Come on man where you live. Are you living on Mars. Come out on your high horses.
Osman fought along mujadeen to liberate their county. He was not their enemy. Problem could have fix by diplomatic mean. They asked usa give us proof Osman involvement and take Osman. But usa refused as they were not interested in Osman day first. They wanted to be Afghanistan to manage China Pakistan iran and Russia. Plan was total destruction and then world saw how they ran from Kabul Airport after killing 2.5 millones Afghans and losing 1.28 trillions dollars..

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> if the tankers are filled , very unlikely for them to explode but if its 2/3rd filled and 1/3rd empty then thats an option , we don\t knew if the fuel cargo was tampered with or not


Well, why not ask the russians. They are inventor of thermobombastic rocket truck. Russia army is the only army in the world that uses such cruel weapon.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579415809990230017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579412850426400770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579413371941982208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579404593683116032

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## The SC

The latest respected study on the results of a nuclear war between Russia and America: 5 billion people will die of starvation..

https://www.rutgers.edu/news/nuclea...ine-and-kill-billions-rutgers-led-study-finds

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579317232412557313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579368803133456384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579426830981169152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579425531405406208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579411540343947264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579407261184950273

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579406410743304192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579406446143639552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579437958083796993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579429833578545153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579428958260846592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579437015770464260

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579408656587972613

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579425376899846145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579427853804142593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579424141991882752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579432138478587905

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579406944204644353

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Ali_Baba said:


> *Russians BOMB German Consulate in Kyiv..*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German consulate hit in Kyiv missile strike​The building housing the German consulate in Kyiv was hit by a Russian missile strike, Reuters news agency quotes the Germany's foreign ministry as saying.
> It is not clear if anyone was killed or injured in the attack, we'll bring you more information as and when it is available.


Hope this will justify giving ATACMS to Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579402472694898688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579402204251066370

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579372516165898240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579399376174448641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579401671410536448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579373791834406913


Wood said:


> Hope this will justify giving ATACMS to Ukraine



ATACMS is garbage compared to Iskander.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579298351526612992


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579371428260237312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579441976549965826

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Names of 7 settlements liberated in Luhansk Oblast made public


KATERYNA TYSHCHENKO - SUNDAY, 9 OCTOBER 2022, 16:04 Sergii Haidai, the Head of the Luhansk Oblast Military Administration, has named 7 settlements that were recently liberated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Luhansk Oblast.




news.yahoo.com





While Russia is busy bombing civilian, Ukrainian military have crawl back 7 settlement in Luhansk

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579303993729495040


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579429054335586304

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> look at the video when it cut to security camera on monitor it clearly show a big first explosion and then after 1-2 sec a small second explosion . the first explosion come exactly at were the lorry was . i cant say it was its left or right , how you can tell that ? the second explosion clearly happened out of the field of view
> 
> the second explosion is probably damaged tankers , nothing else i'm aware of exploded that night . and as the train exactly is adjacent to the place the lorry exploded it show that it was stationary and not moving


There are videos where you can see both bridges, and the railway bridge is to the left, so you know that the driver is driving towards Crimea.
The railway is to the left, and the secondary explosion is expanding from the right.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579394268946649088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579447600063090688

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ziaulislam

James David said:


> WT F are you talking about? The whole world knows Hitler is a bad dude. Seriously man!


Simply objective question?
Did Hitler killed more Asians or queen Elizabeth reign?

Let's through another question?
Did Hitler killed more Africans or French.


Go Google the data and answer me back.

PS.
Sure we hate Japs the did a lot of killing in China and Korea


All lives are equal..not just European lives

Pakistanis are nobodies but your Darling Indians have taught you that lesson

Indians are main source of revenue in this current war buying cheap oil refining and reselling it



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579394268946649088
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579447600063090688


Russians are failing at front line.
Mostly because of poor planning
Putin needs to do a insight and military overhaul
It's beyond shameful how he has failed to deliver.

After the war he needs to go to China and buy stuff that works

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## F-22Raptor

Russia committed multiple terror attacks against civilian targets this morning. Just shows their desperation and helplessness.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579430033164500998

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Wood said:


> Hope this will justify giving ATACMS to Ukraine


That will accelerate delivery of modern air defense systems to Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

President Trump's rally speech makes an appearance on Russian state TV. Seems like Russians are desperate for the charlatan to return 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579168584445886464

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Names of 7 settlements liberated in Luhansk Oblast made public
> 
> 
> KATERYNA TYSHCHENKO - SUNDAY, 9 OCTOBER 2022, 16:04 Sergii Haidai, the Head of the Luhansk Oblast Military Administration, has named 7 settlements that were recently liberated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Luhansk Oblast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Russia is busy bombing civilian, Ukrainian military have crawl back 7 settlement in Luhansk




Ukraine makes real progress while Russia terror bombs Ukrainian civilians. Russia is clearly headed for a humiliating defeat. They look desperate.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia committed multiple terror attacks against civilian targets this morning. Just shows their desperation and helplessness.



A key objective in war is depopulation your enemy. The less people they have, the more man power advantage you have. It is legit.



Wood said:


> President Trump's rally makes an appearance on Russian state TV. Seems like Russians are desperate for the charlatan to return
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579168584445886464



Trump is businessman. Trump only cares profit. Biden wasted hundreds of billions of USD on Ukraine war for nothing. That is not what businessman do. So when Trump is president, no more money for Ukraine and lift sanction on Russia because Russia has 4 to 5 times the population of Ukraine and therefore a more profitable market.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia committed multiple terror attacks against civilian targets this morning. Just shows their desperation and helplessness.


worthless in military
Ukraine offensive will continue.
It’s a means by Putin regime to terrorize Ukraine civil population.
They can’t beat Ukraine army so they beat some random Ukraine infra.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> worthless in military
> Ukraine offensive will continue.
> It’s just a means by Putin regime to terrorize Ukraine civil population.



Ukraine population down to 30 million. Millions fled to the West. 30 million people will have trouble fighting Russia's 150 million people.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579449179558277122

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579444258401984512

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine population down to 30 million. Millions fled to the West. 30 million people will have trouble fighting Russia's 150 million people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579449179558277122


150 million zombies?
Zombie war.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579441632688373761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579436363250040834

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579391152733978624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579382726427541507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579380018681360384


Viet said:


> 150 million zombies?



150 million warriors. Russians are from the north. Cold weather makes brutal people. Just ask Mongols and Manchus. How they conquered China and India. Ukrainians are southerners. Warm weather means weak people.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579433829789765632

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579420456087474177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579420458084356098

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579434377381318656

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579368278819946496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579375969789706240

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579377363481022465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579398237169274880

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579452361067532289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579430547063205889

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> The latest respected study on the results of a nuclear war between Russia and America: 5 billion people will die of starvation..
> 
> https://www.rutgers.edu/news/nuclea...ine-and-kill-billions-rutgers-led-study-finds



When next ice age comes, billions of people die from starvation. Better to die in nuke war than die by starvation.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579425972671361028

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579424703974100995

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579443808634216450

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579453139459411968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579458961904132097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579455500072398848

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579447600063090688


Ridiculous, months of war, and they can't know Zelensky physical position, so hardly that missile is for him.

Where are Russia cyberwarfare capabilities? , How they can't know where Zelensky is? When he's posting in internet and meeting people online without stop.

Russia is only good killing civilians and weak people.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> And it wouldn't matter, it will still lead to the lowest point on the mesh


i still don't get what you mean by lowest point of the mesh the mesh is flat


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BHAN85 said:


> Ridiculous, months of war, and they can't know Zelensky physical position, so hardly that missile is for him.
> 
> Where are Russia cyberwarfare capabilities? , How they can't know where Zelensky is? When he's posting in internet and meeting people online without stop.
> 
> Russia is only good killing civilians and weak people.



Likewise, Americans were never able to kill Assad.

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## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Likewise, Americans were never able to kill Assad.



Or maybe they just dont want it.

USA military operation in Syria was against ISIS.

But USA got the physical position of Gadafi through his sat phone and gave it to rebels, to impale him.

So USA can do it.

Russia can't do a shit, but kill children and terrorize civilians.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BHAN85 said:


> Or maybe they just dont want it.
> 
> USA military operation in Syria was against ISIS.
> 
> But USA get the physical position of Gadafi through his sat phone and gave it to rebels, to impale him.
> 
> So they can do it.
> 
> Russia can't do a shit, but kill children and terrorize civilians.



Assad is hostile to the US. He has been on the hit list for many years. In 2014 the US supplied TOW missiles to Syrian rebels to take Damascus and kill Assad by blowing up all of Assad's tanks.


----------



## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Assad is hostile to the US. He has been on the hit list for many years. In 2014 the US supplied TOW missiles to Syrian rebels to take Damascus and kill Assad by blowing up all of Assad's tanks.


Assad is not meeting online everyday with a lot of people like Zelensky does


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BHAN85 said:


> Assad is not meeting online everyday with a lot of people like Zelensky does



Zelensky is young and energetic. He's only 44 years old. Plus, Assad minds his own business.


----------



## serenity

The millions of civilians the USA has killed beg to differ. Their spirits haunt all the US fanboys for eternity. Just wait until you're dead. You US bootlickers will see their faces soon enough. The ones without the guilty conscience or the real guilt are free from this.

I don't like Russia's aggression war. That's their business and their consequences. Just like European acts throughout history have their own consequences. But here to talk of USA as if a saint, curse you to hell! The US has murdered more foreign women and children in the last 100 years than Russia. So is it fair to also say that USA is useless for anything but killing children and civilians.

Shitstain USA will end up in hell along with all its bootlickers and supporters. Tormented for eternity by the wronged souls of their victims. USA got *** kicked in Korea, lost Vietnam, spent billions and 20 years replacing Taliban with Taliban. Nice work fucking useless loser USA. You lost here again dumbasses hahaha.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579461456546115584

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579425376899846145
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579427853804142593
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579424141991882752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579432138478587905


at last one person in Russia who know how the war must be executed and how to choose target
now it's NATO time , i wonder if they are willing to commit to a real war and provide Ukraine with weapon needed for such war or they will leave Ukraine alone and at best provide the same type of materials


----------



## Hack-Hook

James David said:


> WT F are you talking about? The whole world knows Hitler is a bad dude. Seriously man!


he didn't attack us , it was England and Soviet Union with blessing of USA



James David said:


> WT F are you talking about? The whole world knows Hitler is a bad dude. Seriously man!


he didn't attack us , it was England and Soviet Union with blessing of USA



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579433829789765632


it stated that was a uav


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579352038127079424

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> i still don't get what you mean by lowest point of the mesh the mesh is flat


Not with oil dripping on them. You do know fuel have weight, right?? And also, viscosity


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579365688246173696
The Russian Nazis attacked a childrens playground

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## serenity

If Russians have intended to hit those civilian targets of no military or infrastructure value such as power stations which they also hit, then they are beginning to be as evil as Americans. Since we are going to label all Russians as part of the package, we should hold all Americans to that same rule. All are evil if only some are. Certainly us Chinese get this treatment where even one misbehaves, we are all tarred and judged. Let that be onto you as well.

Now the Russians are saying some Ukrainian air defences failing to shoot down those missiles also cause damage. They are claiming to have been aiming at power stations. Clearly they hit their targets since most of Ukraine is offline and without electricity. As for attacking a playground, spending million dollar cruise missiles on civilian buildings means the Russians are either sick, stupid, or both. Or the missiles missed their targets or these are Ukraine's air defences failing and hitting buildings.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579465754197757952


----------



## serenity

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579465754197757952



Ahh there we have one answer for one case. Seems like Russians are not (I hope) intending to kill civilians using expensive missiles just for spite like Americans have done throughout the last century. It seems to be just inaccurate cruise missile. For military observation, this shows how important modern electronics and supporting networks are. In this domain, Russia isn't even weak but a cruise missile cannot be any less than perfectly accurate.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579470759575322625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579457290436218880

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## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Zelensky is young and energetic. He's only 44 years old. Plus, Assad minds his own business.


And what?

I just said that text in the missile is ridiculous because Russia can't know where Zelensky is.

And that is a prove of Russia cyberwarfare caps are a big shit, because Zelensky uses massively internet everyday.


----------



## BHAN85

serenity said:


> Let's condemn Russia after we condemn USA. Out of Russia's one war of aggression here, USA has pulled 50.
> 
> Have we forgotten that American fatcunt soldiers are only useful for murdering civilians? Innocent farmers gunned down for fun in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
> 
> Useless evil Americunts. Deserve to burn in hell and will burn in hell.



The funny thing here is that Russia is killing his own people.

It's not a war against a far away country and unknown people.

It's a war against their "brothers", same ethnicity almost same language, a lot of links between two peoples, the place where Russia born.

If they can be so criminal against their own people, what they wont do against far away differents countries if they could?

It's like if USA had killed UK civilians, do you imagine? That's what Russia is doing.

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## BHAN85

Ukraine is acting like a professional army, blowing up infrastructures, minimizing colateral civilian damage.

Russia is acting really like a terrorist group, attacking civilians with the intention of kill civilian and spread horror between people.

It's funny because in almost every else history example it happens the opposite. Russia is acting like the weak desperate.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579477357538463747


----------



## 925boy

jhungary said:


> Names of 7 settlements liberated in Luhansk Oblast made public
> 
> 
> KATERYNA TYSHCHENKO - SUNDAY, 9 OCTOBER 2022, 16:04 Sergii Haidai, the Head of the Luhansk Oblast Military Administration, has named 7 settlements that were recently liberated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Luhansk Oblast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Russia is busy bombing civilian,


US also bombed civilian infrastructures in IRaq and Afghanistan too..isnt that true? its part of war. actually, Russia knocking out Ukraine's electricity grid NOW proves its a much nicer dictator invader than US ever has been. You and i know US will first try to wipe out your coiuntry, then say it was doing so to bring you democracy. its all fair at this point, lets keep enjoying the show ok? the day that Ukraine beats Russia in this war, i will leave PDF, screenshot it, but the day Russia wins, you must dissapear from this forum as the fake professor you are. deal?

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## Viet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579458699370041344


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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia committed multiple terror attacks against civilian targets this morning. Just shows their desperation and helplessness.


did you also call US desperate when it bombed the living daylight out of Iraqi and Afghanistani infrastructure during those invasions?? keep it 100% B and dont be a hypocrite.

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## F-22Raptor

From a military standpoint, these attacks are worthless and a waste of missiles. Civilians are either getting terror bombed or missiles completely missing there targets. It doesn’t change anything on the ground for the Russian military which continues to lose ground and be heavily degraded.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Cash GK said:


> Oh they must have learn from mighty franch and amaraicn how they destroyed Afghanistan Iraq Syria libiya.


Afghanistan choose to abandon their neutrality in the war between the US and Al-Qaeda. They had it coming. When You have clueless leaders like Mullah Omar, you get such results. The Afghan war was a legal war of self-defense.

Iraq committed continuous acts of war during the cease-fire. Maybe it was a stupid idea to invade Quwait in the first place which was the legal start of the war.
The US did not start a new war in 2003. They terminated a cease-fire.

Syria has been destroyed by *Al-Assad and Russia*. Russian bombings caused the millions to flee Syria. The US has only killed a few hundred of the hundreds of thousands civilians killed. The US presence in Syria is based on a UNSC resolution calling for all states to get rid of ISIS.

The Libyan action was based on a UNSC resolution calling for countries to put a stop to Gadaffis atrocities. After the Libyans killed Gadaffi in the gutter, the coalition left and Islamists tried to grab power causing the country to fail.

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## F-22Raptor

925boy said:


> did you also call US desperate when it bombed the living daylight out of Iraqi and Afghanistani infrastructure during those invasions?? keep it 100% B and dont be a hypocrite.



The US overran the Iraqi military and Taliban in the matter of weeks. What on earth are you talking about?

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> The US overran the Iraqi military and Taliban in the matter of weeks. What on earth are you talking about?


then why did your military scurry to exit those countries in the end? its like Americans like youo forget any wars your country lost? smfh.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579390221908860928

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## Viet

More urgent than ever.

Germany will deliver Iris/T air defense system to Ukraine in few days. The system is ready.











__





Luftangriffe auf die Ukraine – Iris-T steht in den kommenden Tagen bereit


Nach Aussage von Verteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht steht „in den nächsten Tagen“ das erste Luftverteidigungssystemen des Typs IRIS-T SLM zum Schutz für die Menschen in der Ukraine bereit.




esut.de

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## RoadAmerica

Cash GK said:


> They're more worse than both. 3 million indigenous people were killed Heroshima nagasaki Vietnam Iraq Afghanistan Syria top of that 60 thousands Americans got killed by hands of Americans in last 30 years in mass shootings. Most brutal nation on planet.. what joke you guys are.. look who is talking..


Lol Mao and Stalin still ya e the record, read a history book and stop blaming America


----------



## Cash GK

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Afghanistan choose to abandon their neutrality in the war between the US and Al-Qaeda. They had it coming. When You have clueless leaders like Mullah Omar, you get such results. The Afghan war was a legal war of self-defense.
> 
> Iraq committed continuous acts of war during the cease-fire. Maybe it was a stupid idea to invade Quwait in the first place which was the legal start of the war.
> The US did not start a new war in 2003. They terminated a cease-fire.
> 
> Syria has been destroyed by *Al-Assad and Russia*. Russian bombings caused the millions to flee Syria. The US has only killed a few hundred of the hundreds of thousands civilians killed. The US presence in Syria is based on a UNSC resolution calling for all states to get rid of ISIS.
> 
> The Libyan action was based on a UNSC resolution calling for countries to put a stop to Gadaffis atrocities. After the Libyans killed Gadaffi in the gutter, the coalition left and Islamists tried to grab power causing the country to fail.


Here he goes another brainwash idiot going to teach the world self defense.. dont look world from your eyes. World dont live by your rules



RoadAmerica said:


> Lol Mao and Stalin still ya e the record, read a history book and stop blaming America


Mao attacked Japan with atomic bombs idiot.. Mao in United Nations said Iraq has wMD

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## Reashot Xigwin

Good news everyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579049841967378432

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## _Nabil_

fatman17 said:


> Obviously we know your well versed sentiments based on western media propaganda.


The don't need any propaganda, that's their nature ....


----------



## The SC

925boy said:


> did you also call US desperate when it bombed the living daylight out of Iraqi and Afghanistani infrastructure during those invasions?? keep it 100% B and dont be a hypocrite.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579424264947519488

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> From a military standpoint, these attacks are worthless and a waste of missiles.


Ok, based on what though?


F-22Raptor said:


> Civilians are either getting terror bombed


few did


F-22Raptor said:


> or missiles completely missing there targets.


then how is the entire Ukrainian largest cities all without electricity??? somethings were hit bro, are you blind?


F-22Raptor said:


> It doesn’t change anything on the ground for the Russian military which continues to lose ground and be heavily degraded.


lets wait and see on that- reality is the best truth, not your opinion on PDF.

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## Gripen9

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579424264947519488


They called it Shock and Awe......

Remember US tanks deliberately shooting at AlJazeera reporters in the Baghdad hotel?

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## The SC

Gripen9 said:


> They called it Shock and Awe......
> 
> Remember US tanks deliberately shooting at AlJazeera reporters in the Baghdad hotel?


I just remember that they have used depleted uranium shells..

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## RoadAmerica

serenity said:


> The millions of civilians the USA has killed beg to differ. Their spirits haunt all the US fanboys for eternity. Just wait until you're dead. You US bootlickers will see their faces soon enough. The ones without the guilty conscience or the real guilt are free from this.
> 
> I don't like Russia's aggression war. That's their business and their consequences. Just like European acts throughout history have their own consequences. But here to talk of USA as if a saint, curse you to hell! The US has murdered more foreign women and children in the last 100 years than Russia. So is it fair to also say that USA is useless for anything but killing children and civilians.
> 
> Shitstain USA will end up in hell along with all its bootlickers and supporters. Tormented for eternity by the wronged souls of their victims. USA got *** kicked in Korea, lost Vietnam, spent billions and 20 years replacing Taliban with Taliban. Nice work fucking useless loser USA. You lost here again dumbasses hahaha.





Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579303993729495040


And America has saved millions alone just in Africa 
This is a thread about Ukraine and Russia.
Btw next time a disaster hits your s hole country dont cry to America for any aid or help.

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## Reashot Xigwin

What I like about the Ukrainian war is that there is no grey area. Just good and evil. The idea of tolerance & reaching out to your enemy since the fall of the Soviet has been proven to be false. So we can at least thank Russia for that. Can't wait for China to get the same treatment. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578984931765932033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579179475455324161

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## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> then why did your military scurry to exit those countries in the end? its like Americans like youo forget any wars your country lost? smfh.


Please smack it harder, might turn it on



Cash GK said:


> Here he goes another brainwash idiot going to teach the world self defense.. dont look world from your eyes. World dont live by your rules
> 
> 
> Mao attacked Japan with atomic bombs idiot.. Mao in United Nations said Iraq has wMD


Say what????
Mao wasn’t alive then and surely didn’t attack Japan with nukes. 
Are you serious?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Cash GK said:


> Here he goes another brainwash idiot going to teach the world self defense.. dont look world from your eyes. World dont live by your rules
> 
> 
> Mao attacked Japan with atomic bombs idiot.. Mao in United Nations said Iraq has wMD


”My rules” are better known as ”International Law” and the details are available in the many treaties including the Haag and Geneva Conventions.
People that sign treaties agree to those rules.
Since Pakistan have signed these treaties, they are *your rules* as much as mine.
The difference is that I know how these rules work, and you don’t.

They are very different from the tribal thinking that says that everything ”my tribe” does is ok and everything the ”enemy tribe” does is not ok. Such thinking does not require much of intelligence.

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## Cash GK

Reashot Xigwin said:


> What I like about the Ukrainian war is that there is no grey area. Just good and evil. The idea of tolerance & reaching out to your enemy since the fall of the Soviet has been proven to be false. So we can at least thank Russia for that. Can't wait for China to get the same treatment.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578984931765932033
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579179475455324161


Ukrainen has every right to defend their country.that basic right,, We have problem with selective human rights champions. Those b....ters had killed millions in weak countries and they talking shit and now giving us lessons of morallities Fucking dickheads..

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## Wood

RoadAmerica said:


> And America has saved millions alone just in Africa
> This is a thread about Ukraine and Russia.
> Btw next time a disaster hits your s hole country dont cry to America for any aid or help.


Why have you quoted my post? Not sure what you mean to say


----------



## kingQamaR

Meanwhile Russia have just fired missiles into Zaporizhzhia killing 17 people. Zaporizhzhia is one of the four areas where Putin claimed that 92% voted for him recently, so is he now intentionally killing Russians?

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## Cash GK

A.P. Richelieu said:


> ”My rules” are better known as ”International Law” and the details are available in the many treaties including the Haag and Geneva Conventions.
> People that sign treaties agree to those rules.
> Since Pakistan have signed these treaties, they are *your rules* as much as mine.
> The difference is that I know how these rules work, and you don’t.
> 
> They are very different from the tribal thinking that says that everything ”my tribe” does is ok and everything the ”enemy tribe” does is not ok. Such thinking does not require much of intelligence.


Pakistan was well betrayed by it western alliance in 1971..Pakistan as issue of Kashmir. Where da **** those rulles go when we asked our western allies to talk on Kashmir... you follow those rules which suite you. You western dont care about human rights in Kashmir and Palestine....please. now you need man power to fight with Russian again. Now talking about rulles. West betrayed us aftet soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. Our generations got radicalized our economy got fucked up. 9 millions Afghan refugees.. Pakistan was the country which defeated soviet union and made US and west solo supper power in return you Sanctioned us to hell. You made sure Pakistan could not survive. Come on man.. we not stupid fight your own wars. We have given so much blood for West supermessy. You guys gave India free hand in atomic energy. Look what they gave you back. They buying Russian gas oil and selling out..


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Cash GK said:


> Ukrainen has every right to defend their country.that basic right,, We have problem with selective human rights champions. Those b....ters killed millions in weak countries and they talking shit and give us lessons of modalities. Fucking dickheads..


Speak human.

Russian rapes babies... I want you to put that inside your head. And why the West & Russia might not be the same thing.

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## Cash GK

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Speak human.
> 
> Russian rapes babies... I want you to put that inside your head. And why the West & Russia might not be the same thing.


I am not here to defend Russians wrong doing i am here to talk about your hipocresía 
Hahaha Australian spacial forces killed kids in Afghanistan 








Slitting the throats of boys: Anger as report details Australia war crimes


Horrific details emerge of abuses carried out by members of Australia’s special forces in Afghanistan.




www.trtworld.com




Human right at its best by so caller champion of world.




.
Remember last day attack on kids car by Americans in Kabul.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Cash GK said:


> Pakistan was well betrayed by it western alliance in 1971..Pakistan as issue of Kashmir. Where da **** those rulles go when we asked our western allies to talk on Kashmir... you follow those rules which suite you. You western dont care about human rights in Kashmir and Palestine....please. now you need man power to fight with Russian again. Now talking about rulles. West betrayed us aftet soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. Our generations got radicalized our economy got fucked up. 9 millions Afghan refugees.. Pakistan was the country which defeated soviet union and made US and west solo supper power in return you Sanctioned us to hell. You made sure Pakistan could not survive. Come on man.. we not stupid fight your own wars. We have given so much blood for West supermessy. You guys gave India free hand in atomic energy. Look what they gave you back. They buying Russian gas oil and selling out..



Again you engage in tribal thinking.
Pakistan did not meet the criteria set up to resolve the crisis In Kashmir.
Still you expect ”your tribe” to ignore that and give you favours.

The Palestinian War Crimes together with the utter corruption of the Palestine leadership is a significant contributor to the current situation. I am not aware that Pakistan has made any contribution towards peace in the Middle East.

Pakistan did not defeat the Soviet Union. US resources defeated the Soviet Union, even if Pakistan controlled them within Afghanistan.
The millions of refugees are the sole responsibility of Russia, so award the blame where it is deserved.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579513974621888513

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## Cash GK

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Again you engage in tribal thinking.
> Pakistan did not meet the criteria set up to resolve the crisis In Kashmir.
> Still you expect ”your tribe” to ignore that and give you favours.
> 
> The Palestinian War Crimes together with the utter corruption of the Palestine leadership is a significant contributor to the current situation. I am not aware that Pakistan has made any contribution towards peace in the Middle East.
> 
> Pakistan did not defeat the Soviet Union. US resources defeated the Soviet Union, even if Pakistan controlled them within Afghanistan.
> The millions of refugees are the sole responsibility of Russia, so award the blame where it is deserved.


It is you who going to tell us 10000 mails away that Kashmir is not our. That's call Fascism. You guys not meet our Criteria to be champion of human rights. Leav us alone go and fight yourself. Send own kids to fight Russian. We dont care.. w

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## ziaulislam

Cash GK said:


> Pakistan was well betrayed by it western alliance in 1971..Pakistan as issue of Kashmir. Where da **** those rulles go when we asked our western allies to talk on Kashmir... you follow those rules which suite you. You western dont care about human rights in Kashmir and Palestine....please. now you need man power to fight with Russian again. Now talking about rulles. West betrayed us aftet soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. Our generations got radicalized our economy got fucked up. 9 millions Afghan refugees.. Pakistan was the country which defeated soviet union and made US and west solo supper power in return you Sanctioned us to hell. You made sure Pakistan could not survive. Come on man.. we not stupid fight your own wars. We have given so much blood for West supermessy. You guys gave India free hand in atomic energy. Look what they gave you back. They buying Russian gas oil and selling out..


Ironically the berlin wall fell not due to Europe fighting strength but covert war of Afghanistan and sacrifices of afghans

Yet Germans and Europeans DID NOTHING TO HELP afghans post war.
Nothing for refugees 

They just packed up and went home.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Again you engage in tribal thinking.
> Pakistan did not meet the criteria set up to resolve the crisis In Kashmir.
> Still you expect ”your tribe” to ignore that and give you favours.
> 
> The Palestinian War Crimes together with the utter corruption of the Palestine leadership is a significant contributor to the current situation. I am not aware that Pakistan has made any contribution towards peace in the Middle East.
> 
> Pakistan did not defeat the Soviet Union. US resources defeated the Soviet Union, even if Pakistan controlled them within Afghanistan.
> The millions of refugees are the sole responsibility of Russia, so award the blame where it is deserved.


Sure I agree.
Asians are not humans only blue eyes Europeans are.
Similarly there were Tesla bots fighting Russians in Afghanistan not afghanis but in Ukraine there are no Tesla bots but brave ukrianians.

Also Pakistani traitors we're aligned with soviets and Indians were not hence why Europeans supportes India ..

Even today India showed middle finger to Europeans..I really like how they did it..it was fun

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## Cash GK

ziaulislam said:


> Ironically the berlin wall fell not due to Europe fighting strength but covert war of Afghanistan and sacrifices of afghans
> 
> Yet Germans and Europeans DID NOTHING TO HELP afghans post war.
> Nothing for refugees
> 
> They just packed up and went home.


Because they are dirty brown man.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Wood said:


> Why have you quoted my post? Not sure what you mean to say


That was directed to Cash GK

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## Cash GK

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Pakistan did not defeat the Soviet Union. US resources defeated the Soviet Union, even if Pakistan controlled them within Afghanistan.
> The millions of refugees are the sole responsibility of Russia, so award the blame where it is dedeserved.


You mean jhon Rambo came in Afghanistan to fight with soviets.. grow up man. I thought I was talking to sensible person. Lol I did not know that you belive in that movies

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## Easy When

Whether you are for Putin or against him, he is the last man standing against a unipolar world where everyone outside the US becomes a slave to the USD.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579522054050586624


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579505848917057536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579463005359968258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579430963607928834

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## ziaulislam

Cash GK said:


> You mean jhon Rambo came in Afghanistan to fight with soviets.. grow up man. I thought I was talking to sensible person. Lol I did not know that you belive in that movies
> View attachment 886096


Lol sensible?

Europeans especially swedes only care about money..

Swedes we're biggest Nazi supporters and were the main resource (steel) behind Nazism

Any way pushing Putin will mean more misery.

Ukriane should have agreed to minsk but didn't ..now they just need to agree Russian demands

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia can just print money to finance war. Russia has lots of trees to make paper to print money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will Russia’s Forests Be an Asset or an Obstacle in Climate Fight?
> 
> 
> New research indicating Russia’s vast forests store more carbon than previously estimated would seem like good news. But scientists are concerned Russia will count this carbon uptake as an offset in its climate commitments, which would allow its emissions to continue unchecked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> e360.yale.edu


also, you can use trees to make toilet paper. Do you know that?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579522577021964288

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## Reashot Xigwin

Cash GK said:


> I am not here to defend Russians wrong doing i am here to talk about your hipocresía
> Hahaha Australian spacial forces killed kids in Afghanistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slitting the throats of boys: Anger as report details Australia war crimes
> 
> 
> Horrific details emerge of abuses carried out by members of Australia’s special forces in Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trtworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Human right at its best by so caller champion of world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Remember last day attack on kids car by Americans in Kabul.



So Russia get a free pass?

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Think the Dutch, the Dane, Spanish, Portugese, Australian, and American already gave them 400 M113 to Ukraine. IIRC. That's probably enough for now. That's like 3 division worth of M113...I mean even Australia and Canada do not have that number in service...



NATO been in dire need to restock its conventional land forces for decades anyways.

Modern IFVs basically never arrived into service in most of Western armies in sufficient quantities after the cold war ended.

Russians basically have put a 30mm onto everything by now, close to no Western armoured vehicles sans tanks can stand it. .50 BMG on top of those M113s is a peashooter in comparison too.

In other words, most of NATO light armour can't do anything about RU light armour, while RU light armour can destroy most NATO light armour, and unlike NATO, RU has tons of IFVs, since they make them cheap (no fancy ceramics, aluminium, modular construction, or anything)


----------



## Enigma SIG

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So Russia get a free pass?


The US got one so why not Russia?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579528738525827073


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579538721141297152


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579521196059942912

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## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579522577021964288


I dont think these were HIMARS. I think its guided artillery like exalibur.
Looks like airburst, hardly any holes in the ground. Just like this example:

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579511453744529409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579478534212685825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579480001246035968

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## A.P. Richelieu

Cash GK said:


> It is you who going to tell us 10000 mails away that Kashmir is not our. That's call Fascism. You guys not meet our Criteria to be champion of human rights. Leav us alone go and fight yourself. Send own kids to fight Russian. We dont care.. w


No, it is the United Nations Security Council which tells You what to do and Pakistan have agreed to follow their decision by accepting membership in the United Nations. Since Pakistan decided to not implement their plan, Pakistan is stuck in limbo.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579498283357306882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579495817022697472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579489329197748224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579420428946505729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579487789741051904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579482637311569920


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> Lol sensible?
> 
> Europeans especially swedes only care about money..
> 
> Swedes we're biggest Nazi supporters and were the main resource (steel) behind Nazism



Care to explain why Sweden refused to let Germany run recruiting offices for Waffen-SS in Sweden?
Why did Sweden send airmen back to the Allies?
Why did Sweden warn Stalin about Barbarossa?
Why did Sweden warn the UK about Bismarck?
Why did Sweden share decrypted messages with the Allies?

You can’t because all You have is your racism to back up your accusations.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579529798241898496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579520484408201216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579511889062932483

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579510604393779201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579483359646208000


----------



## Ali_Baba

MeFishToo said:


> I dont think these were HIMARS. I think its guided artillery like exalibur.
> Looks like airburst, hardly any holes in the ground. Just like this eksample:
> View attachment 886106



If so - that is fantastic if exalibur as they are so much more cost effective. The CEP on exalibur is amazing and the results above if true - back that up.

This is why Russia will lose - she lack precision in any of her weapon systems. Their approach is brute force and grinding resistence down - but this approach cannot work if your opponent is starting to use systems like exalibur based shells.

In light of todays terrorist attacks by Russia, USA should look to ship the extra long range rockets with more HIMARs now to help Ukraine in light of the current escalation by Russia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579490384476246016


Ali_Baba said:


> This is why Russia will lose - she lack precision in any of her weapon systems. Their approach is brute force and grinding resistence down - but this approach cannot work if your opponent is starting to use systems like exalibur based shells.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579490384476246016



All exists on paper - Russia has not be able to demonstrate any level of precision guided systems in theatre .... all of what you post is vapourware and not in theatre in Ukraine right now ...

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## MeFishToo

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Care to explain why Sweden refused to let Germany run recruiting offices for Waffen-SS in Sweden?
> Why did Sweden send airmen back to the Allies?
> Why did Sweden warn Stalin about Barbarossa?
> Why did Sweden warn the UK about Bismarck?
> Why did Sweden share decrypted messages with the Allies?
> 
> You can’t because all You have is your racism.


Let it go. Whats the point taking the bait and discussing something none of us are guilty of. Yes they are probably driven by racism. Let them perish in their hate.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Enigma SIG said:


> The US got one so why not Russia?


They literally don't. Every news meds, orgs & even country condemn US invasion of Iraq. 

What Russia want is to annex a country & tells everyone that's the same as Iraq.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Cash GK said:


> You mean jhon Rambo came in Afghanistan to fight with soviets.. grow up man. I thought I was talking to sensible person. Lol I did not know that you belive in that movies
> View attachment 886096


It is pretty clear what I meant.
US money, and US supplied arms distributed by Pakistan within Afghanistan allowed the Mujahedin to defeat the Soviet Union.
Pakistan could not afford to beat the Soviet Union on its own.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> All exists on paper - Russia has not be able to demonstrate any level of precision guided systems in theatre .... all of what you post is vapourware and not in theatre in Ukraine right now ...





https://twitter.com/search?q=krasnopol&src=typed_query


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> Ironically the berlin wall fell not due to Europe fighting strength but covert war of Afghanistan and sacrifices of afghans
> 
> Yet Germans and Europeans DID NOTHING TO HELP afghans post war.
> Nothing for refugees
> 
> They just packed up and went home.
> 
> 
> Sure I agree.
> Asians are not humans only blue eyes Europeans are.
> Similarly there were Tesla bots fighting Russians in Afghanistan not afghanis but in Ukraine there are no Tesla bots but brave ukrianians.
> 
> Also Pakistani traitors we're aligned with soviets and Indians were not hence why Europeans supportes India ..
> 
> Even today India showed middle finger to Europeans..I really like how they did it..it was fun


You certainly engage in general whining when you have no arguments.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579548708915798017


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## MeFishToo

Ali_Baba said:


> If so - that is fantastic if exalibur as they are so much more cost effective. The CEP on exalibur is amazing and the results above if true - back that up.
> 
> This is why Russia will lose - she lack precision in any of her weapon systems. Their approach is brute force and grinding resistence down - but this approach cannot work if your opponent is starting to use systems like exalibur based shells.
> 
> In light of todays terrorist attacks by Russia, USA should look to ship the extra long range rockets with more HIMARs now to help Ukraine in light of the current escalation by Russia.


I agree, but Im not american, so I just hope they will. Denmark agreed ( so I heard, not sure) to send 12 or 16 Ceasar 8x8 155mm from Nextar being build for danish army. Its been a while since they made the order, so they may be delivered in the near future. I believe Slovakia will deliver 12-16 Zuzana 155 mm too. Given the right artillery rounds, Russia is ending up out gunned.


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## Shawnee




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> I agree, but Im not american, so I just hope they will. Denmark agreed to send 12 or 16 Ceasar 8x8 155mm from Nextar being build for danish army. Its been a while since they made the order, so they may be delivered in the near future. I believe Slovakia will deliver 12-16 Zuzana 155 mm too. Given the right artillery rounds, Russia is ending up out gunned.



Russia can build 100 Msta-SM2 within a few months. Russia will always out gun Ukraine when it comes to gun arti.

And, gun arti are most efficient when you use precision guided rounds. Otherwise, it's just wasted.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579546354418089984
Evil Russian Nazis

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579546354418089984
> Evil Russian Nazis



Wagner are not army and they are not bound by the rules of war.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579550457231724544


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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579546354418089984
> Evil Russian Nazis


Russia will just deny it. Claiming actors gave up their lives for fame.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579522460026036227
lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579525765947068416


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579553824599310338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579551008002539521


----------



## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Wagner are not army and they are not bound by the rules of war.



They are used to killing unarmed Syrian civilians, they never thought UKRAINE would hit back,

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579556607008333826


kingQamaR said:


> They are used to killing unarmed Syrian civilians, they never thought UKRAINE would hit back,



Never thought? How do you know? Do you read mind?

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## Cash GK

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So Russia get a free pass?


They did not get free pass. But you either not qualify to tell the people what rules they need to follow. This game is stared by you guys on the cost of Ukrainens lives. It is you who kicked out majority government in Ukraine and brought minority government way you guys did with Mr khan' government. You guys do not qualify to be humen right champions. When you guys start Condemning Israelis in Palestine syria Jordan and India’s actions in Kashmir and American actions in Iraq Syria Afghanistan. We will stand with you guys but as it istoo late for your Condomination. We will let you fight your own wars. We were no body for you guys and will be no body in this war bro. What goes around comes around..


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## Cash GK

A.P. Richelieu said:


> No, it is the United Nations Security Council which tells You what to do and Pakistan have agreed to follow their decision by accepting membership in the United Nations. Since Pakistan decided to not implement their plan, Pakistan is stuck in limbo.


Who united nation the one who allowed usa to attack Iraq right... you joking.. common. Wherr 5 permanent members decide the fate of 190 countries lol۔ that very Organization itself is clear sign of unjust. This world is like jungle where Predators have the right to kill everyone.. UN there are 5 predators. They allowed to do anything.. ask your United Nations to ask American to Compensate Iraqis way they forced lybia to pay airplane Hijack.

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## aziqbal



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## Cash GK

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is pretty clear what I meant.
> US money, and US supplied arms distributed by Pakistan within Afghanistan allowed the Mujahedin to defeat the Soviet Union.
> Pakistan could not afford to beat the Soviet Union on its own.


It was not amaraicn money it was arab'smoney usa only sold weapons. It was 1.5 millions people got killed while defeating soviet in 14 years. You are war with Russia how many months 7 right? You guys are crying like babies. Our elders fought for 14 years. Our generations got fucked up because of you guys.. now you doing with Ukrainens. Their generations going to be fucked up. Their history will destroyed by bombings. You guys could prevent this.. now you feeding weapons here n there. You know what will happen if those weapons get into wrong hands. You guys are the reason to destroye your own generation. I am afraid end game will be disaster for coming generations. They will be Ridiculous.. that thing fears me the most..

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579528738525827073


I hate seeing these war videos with music in it, there are people dying from both sides even the dead soldiers were human they felt the same pain as civilians do, grief even for the fallen enemy soldier everyone wants peace

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Drone calls in missile attack on armored car.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579561850525880321
Kh-101 air launched cruise missile


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579559495810056193

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579061030079954945
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579030092356861953
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579027820520431616
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579146663582896128


That last image of the soldier is highly misleading. The Russians and their apologists are purposefully using a low quality image. The actual image actually shows the proper symbol which is just a knot.

Heres the actual image.

This is why anyone who believes blatant Russian propaganda is such a moron to me.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Cash GK said:


> Who united nation the one who allowed usa to attack Iraq right... you joking.. common. Wherr 5 permanent members decide the fate of 190 countries lol۔ that very Organization itself is clear sign of unjust. This world is like jungle where Predators have the right to kill everyone.. UN there are 5 predators. They allowed to do anything.. ask your United Nations to ask American to Compensate Iraqis way they forced lybia to pay airplane Hijack.


Pakistan is free to leave the United Nations at any time.
If it choses to remain, it will have to play by the rules.

Anyone that has the slightest clue about the United Nation knows that the UNSC consists of 15 members with 5 permanent and 10 rotating members,
A resolution cannot be issued by the 5 permanent members.
They can block a resolution, that is all.

Since you do not show even a minimum of education, you are better ignored.
You will be in ten seconds,

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Those people who are cheering for Ukrainian advances are little too stupid , they have know idea what's coming ahead in winter . In kharkiv alone there were 20,000 Ukrainian casualities as per western sources . Putin is playing carefully while Ukraine is putting all they have into meat grinder, all these advances will be reversed in winter 
What Putin would do by the time winter has arrived Ukraine will have no electricity, no gas no water then what happens next ? Ukraine will collapse

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579556607008333826
> 
> 
> Never thought? How do you know? Do you read mind?



Falling out of a window soon for you if you go off message I see now


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Ukraine: Russia bombs German consulate in Kyiv.​





*By Samuel Bolaji*
Bombed German Consulate in Kyiv
10th October 2022


Germany’s Foreign Ministry said Monday in a briefing that the building housing its consulate in Kyiv, the capital city of Ukraine, was hit during Russian missile attacks on the city.

German embassy in Ukraine is a sovereign territory of Germany. “The building where the visa office of the German embassy in Kiev was located was hit by the Russians today. Maybe some ‘Leopards’ can be sent to check the situation on the ground?”
Germany Invokes NATO Article 5​Collective defence and Article 5

Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked.

The principle of collective defence is at the very heart of NATO’s founding treaty. 

It remains a unique and enduring principle that binds its members together, committing them to protect each other and setting a spirit of solidarity within the Alliance.

Collective defence means that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.
The principle of collective defence is enshrined in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty.
NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history after the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States.
NATO has taken collective defence measures on several occasions, including in response to the situation in Syria and the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
NATO has standing forces on active duty that contribute to the Alliance’s collective defence efforts on a permanent basis.

According to reports, multiple Ukrainian cities have been attacked by Russian forces, which began when Kyiv was hit by Russian missiles.

The attacks on Kyiv are reportedly a retaliation promised by Putin in response to Crimea bridge blast by Ukrainian forces.









Ukraine: Russia bombs German consulate in Kyiv


Germany's Foreign Ministry said Monday in a briefing that the building housing its consulate in Kyiv, the capital city of Ukraine, was hit during Russian missile attacks on the city.




punchng.com

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## That Guy

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Those people who are cheering for Ukrainian advances are little too stupid , they have know idea what's coming ahead in winter . In kharkiv alone there were 20,000 Ukrainian casualities as per western sources . Putin is playing carefully while Ukraine is putting all they have into meat grinder, all these advances will be reversed in winter
> What Putin would do by the time winter has arrived Ukraine will have no electricity, no gas no water then what happens next ? Ukraine will collapse


Right, sure. That's why Putin had to call up a military mobilization of 300,000 after losing tens of thousands and not even being able to hold on the territories the Russians have tried to annex.

Putin has had to fire multiple generals running his idiotic, unwinnable war, because he's too stupid to realize he himself fucked up.

That's not the actions of a careful strategist who's winning, those are the actions of a desperate loser.

What a joke.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukraine: Russia bombs German consulate in Kyiv.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *By Samuel Bolaji*
> Bombed German Consulate in Kyiv
> 10th October 2022
> 
> 
> Germany’s Foreign Ministry said Monday in a briefing that the building housing its consulate in Kyiv, the capital city of Ukraine, was hit during Russian missile attacks on the city.
> 
> German embassy in Ukraine is a sovereign territory of Germany. “The building where the visa office of the German embassy in Kiev was located was hit by the Russians today. Maybe some ‘Leopards’ can be sent to check the situation on the ground?”
> Germany Invokes NATO Article 5​Collective defence and Article 5
> 
> Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked.
> 
> The principle of collective defence is at the very heart of NATO’s founding treaty.
> 
> It remains a unique and enduring principle that binds its members together, committing them to protect each other and setting a spirit of solidarity within the Alliance.
> 
> Collective defence means that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.
> The principle of collective defence is enshrined in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty.
> NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history after the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States.
> NATO has taken collective defence measures on several occasions, including in response to the situation in Syria and the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
> NATO has standing forces on active duty that contribute to the Alliance’s collective defence efforts on a permanent basis.
> 
> According to reports, multiple Ukrainian cities have been attacked by Russian forces, which began when Kyiv was hit by Russian missiles.
> 
> The attacks on Kyiv are reportedly a retaliation promised by Putin in response to Crimea bridge blast by Ukrainian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Russia bombs German consulate in Kyiv
> 
> 
> Germany's Foreign Ministry said Monday in a briefing that the building housing its consulate in Kyiv, the capital city of Ukraine, was hit during Russian missile attacks on the city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> punchng.com


This is fake news.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

That Guy said:


> Right, sure. That's why Putin had to call up a military mobilization of 300,000 after losing tens of thousands and not even being able to hold on the territories the Russians have tried to annex.
> 
> Putin has had to fire multiple generals running his idiotic, unwinnable war, because he's too stupid to realize he himself fucked up.
> 
> That's not the actions of a careful strategist who's winning, those are the actions of a desperate loser.
> 
> What a joke.


He wouldn't want to use his soldiers to waste in Ukraine , he's keeping a big portion of them intact to face bigger war against west , that's what ay sane person would do

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## Enigma SIG

Reashot Xigwin said:


> They literally don't. Every news meds, orgs & even country condemn US invasion of Iraq.
> 
> What Russia want is to annex a country & tells everyone that's the same as Iraq.


Run it over and bomb it to **** loot all the gold and money or annex it whats the difference


----------



## That Guy

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> He wouldn't want to use his soldiers to waste in Ukraine , he's keeping a big portion of them intact to face bigger war against west , that's what ay sane person would do


That's literally not true. We've been hearing this nonsense since the beginning of the war.

If he has soldiers to spare, he wouldn't be sending untrained conscripts to the front line where they would 100% lose.

The truth is that Russia is losing the war, because they don't have the resources to fight against a Ukraine backed with EU/US money and weapons.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

That Guy said:


> Right, sure. That's why Putin had to call up a military mobilization of 300,000 after losing tens of thousands and not even being able to hold on the territories the Russians have tried to annex.
> 
> Putin has had to fire multiple generals running his idiotic, unwinnable war, because he's too stupid to realize he himself fucked up.
> 
> That's not the actions of a careful strategist who's winning, those are the actions of a desperate loser.
> 
> What a joke.
> 
> 
> This is fake news.


Just wait and watch , without water electricity food gas and supply lines in winter the Ukrainians will freeze to death just like the Germans did in Stalingrad , winter is only a month away. Russia is huge with unlimited natural resources and huge manpower they can sustain it for years unlike Ukraine who is fighting on nato weapons and western funds only . Russia has oil and gas that's enough for them to last a decade

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## That Guy

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Just wait and watch , without water electricity food gas and supply lines in winter the Ukrainians will freeze to death just like the Germans did in Stalingrad , winter is only a month away. Russia is huge with unlimited natural resources and huge manpower they can sustain it for years unlike Ukraine who is fighting on nato weapons and western funds only . Russia has oil and gas that's enough for them to last a decade


Ukraine will have plenty of everything, Russia will not.

The issue with your stalingrad example is that the Germans were in foreign territory with broken supply lines.

Ukrainian supply lines have gotten stronger, and its the Russians who are fighting in a foreign country.

Russia does NOT have unlimited resources, that's a myth.

Bro, you clearly don't have any clue how this works, the fact that the Russians have had to beg Iran for drone technology is evidence enough of how desperately low Russia's advanced weapons supplies are.

The fact that Russia is sending untrained conscripts to the front line is even worse for Russia because they're just throwing bodies at a HIMARS and Bayraktar powered meat grinder with zero results.

Russian defenses keep collapsing for a reason.

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## kingQamaR

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> He wouldn't want to use his soldiers to waste in Ukraine , he's keeping a big portion of them intact to face bigger war against west , that's what ay sane person would do



Russia has never had a decent army and always relied on sending waves of troops in until the enemy caves.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579516439303593989


----------



## Cash GK

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Pakistan is free to leave the United Nations at any time.
> If it choses to remain, it will have to play by the rules.
> 
> Anyone that has the slightest clue about the United Nation knows that the UNSC consists of 15 members with 5 permanent and 10 rotating members,
> A resolution cannot be issued by the 5 permanent members.
> They can block a resolution, that is all.
> 
> Since you do not show even a minimum of education, you are better ignored.
> You will be in ten seconds,


This is your behavior. fascist. You don't have pain for for other race. You are typical wight man who only care about your own kind. Very very racist and Fascist

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## Ahmadbhutta01

That Guy said:


> That's literally not true. We've been hearing this nonsense since the beginning of the war.
> 
> If he has soldiers to spare, he wouldn't be sending untrained conscripts to the front line where they would 100% lose.
> 
> The truth is that Russia is losing the war, because they don't have the resources to fight against a Ukraine backed with EU/US money and weapons.


That's how wars are fought , Pak created jihadis so that they can utilisize them during war send them to Frontline against line and have minimum army casualties, India now following the same pattern they are creating Hindu extremists and training them militarily like rss, and bajrang dal to minimize army casualities they were tested in Indian held kasmir 

Now who are Russian conscripts? Jobless folks they aren't doctors and scientists or engineer , they are desperate folks fighting for 3500$ a month which they couldn't have dreamed otherwise . Why was Wagner created ? Same purpose not to engage army rather use mercenaries just like usa utilises black water


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

That Guy said:


> the Russians who are fighting in a foreign country



Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson are as Russian as Moscow.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579568782699528193

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Like Like:
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## Cash GK

Cash GK said:


> This is your behavior. fascist


Will you condemned US attack on Iraq? No hanki panki. yes or no.


----------



## That Guy

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> That's how wars are fought , Pak created jihadis so that they can utilisize them during war send them to Frontline against line and have minimum army casualties, India now following the same pattern they are creating Hindu extremists and training them militarily like rss, and bajrang dal to minimize army casualities they were tested in Indian held kasmir
> 
> Now who are Russian conscripts? Jobless folks they aren't doctors and scientists or engineer , they are desperate folks fighting for 3500$ a month which they couldn't have dreamed otherwise . Why was Wagner created ? Same purpose not to engage army rather use mercenaries just like usa utilises black water


You're comparing a proxy war with a conventional war.

Conscripts are official army personnel fighting a conventional war.

You do not know how wars are fought.

This is a dumb argument.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson are as Russian as Moscow.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579568782699528193


Once again, everytime you reply to me, you get a negative rating.

I've warned you multiple times this would happen.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579572287074074624

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## Sifar zero

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I hate seeing these war videos with music in it, there are people dying from both sides even the dead soldiers were human they felt the same pain as civilians do, grief even for the fallen enemy soldier everyone wants peace


Bro do you live in Bosnia??


----------



## MeFishToo

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Those people who are cheering for Ukrainian advances are little too stupid , they have know idea what's coming ahead in winter . In kharkiv alone there were 20,000 Ukrainian casualities as per western sources . Putin is playing carefully while Ukraine is putting all they have into meat grinder, all these advances will be reversed in winter
> What Putin would do by the time winter has arrived Ukraine will have no electricity, no gas no water then what happens next ? Ukraine will collapse


I think you give Russia to much credit. There is a limit to its long range capabilities, and every strike puts pressure on western governments to deliver anti air systems asap.
If Russia could destroy the ukrainian infrastructure, they would have done it a long time ago. Doesnt have to take 8 months to figure out what to strike. And if the ukrainian claims are right, they took out half of the missiles - I even saw a group of ukrainian shooting down a cruise missile with manpads (dont understand a word of it, but the shear joy tells me it was a clear hit 😀







Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> He wouldn't want to use his soldiers to waste in Ukraine , he's keeping a big portion of them intact to face bigger war against west , that's what ay sane person would do


Except Russia doesnt have to fear NATO invading Russia. So this is a lame excuse.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> I think you give Russia to much credit. There is a limit to its long range capabilities, and every strike puts pressure on western governments to deliver anti air systems asap.
> If Russia could destroy the ukrainian infrastructure, they would have done it a long time ago. Doesnt have to take 8 months to figure out what to strike. And if the ukrainian claims are right, they took out half of the missiles - I even saw a group of ukrainian shooting down a cruise missile with manpads



Russians are generally nice people. If Ukrainians didn't host American military bases on Russia's border Russia would have never gone to war.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

MeFishToo said:


> I think you give Russia to much credit. There is a limit to its long range capabilities, and every strike puts pressure on western governments to deliver anti air systems asap.
> If Russia could destroy the ukrainian infrastructure, they would have done it a long time ago. Doesnt have to take 8 months to figure out what to strike. And if the ukrainian claims are right, they took out half of the missiles - I even saw a group of ukrainian shooting down a cruise missile with manpads


That was Iranian drone u can't shoot down cruise missile with a manpas for God sake there's too much propaganda from both sides 
Usa and west knows Ukraine can't win the war their only objective is to bleed Russia as much as it can so a weakened Russia might dis-integrate like USSR all at the expense or total destruction of Ukraine, u think west care about Ukraine lol 

Usa is selling gas to Europe at double the price , European economy is collapsing . Usa even destroyed Nord stream 1 shows how much it cares a out europians

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## Cash GK

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russians are generally nice people. If Ukrainians didn't host American military bases on Russia's border Russia would have never gone to war.


Our western friend dont want to understand this shit.. this is where are all evil started...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

War is not a romance novel. You couldn't last a day without water. You couldn't walk 2 hours even without carrying anything. Targeting key infrastructure is key to winning the war.

Modern society is all about electricity. No electricity. No nothing. Population falls by 90% because of starvation.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

That Guy said:


> You're comparing a proxy war with a conventional war.
> 
> Conscripts are official army personnel fighting a conventional war.
> 
> You do not know how wars are fought.
> 
> This is a dumb argument.
> 
> 
> Once again, everytime you reply to me, you get a negative rating.
> 
> I've warned you multiple times this would happen.


No not for proxy wars but for conventional wars , Wagner's are fighting in a conventional war not a proxy

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## Cash GK

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> That was Iranian drone u can't shoot down cruise missile with a manpas for God sake there's too much propaganda from both sides
> Usa and west knows Ukraine can't win the war their only objective is to bleed Russia as much as it can so a weakened Russia might dis-integrate like USSR all at the expense or total destruction of Ukraine, u think west care about Ukraine lol
> 
> Usa is selling gas to Europe at double the price , European economy is collapsing . Usa even destroyed Nord stream 1 shows how much it cares a out europians


Man I was paying 3.70 euros per kg. European consumer is really fucked up. I parked my car as gas is very expensive.. European consumer is paying the price.... winter is on the cornor..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Kornet missile is very effective with drones for recon. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579574471123701760

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## MeFishToo

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> That was Iranian drone u can't shoot down cruise missile with a manpas for God sake there's too much propaganda from both sides
> Usa and west knows Ukraine can't win the war their only objective is to bleed Russia as much as it can so a weakened Russia might dis-integrate like USSR all at the expense or total destruction of Ukraine, u think west care about Ukraine lol
> 
> Usa is selling gas to Europe at double the price , European economy is collapsing . Usa even destroyed Nord stream 1 shows how much it cares a out europians


Didnt know you were a conspiracy theorist. Im not going to reply to this Nordstream, weakening Russia, Europe collapsing, USA evil.
But a cruise missiler is slower than a fighterjet, and I do hope you agree Ukraine have shoot down russian jets during this war using manpads? .. Yes? .. So why cant you shot down a cruise missile flying right over your position with a couple of manpads?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

TOS thermobaric arti


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579566320567603200


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

50 pubs closing every month as inflation crisis bites
Jump in operating costs and reluctant consumers inflict pain on industry

New figures show that there are now around 39,800 pubs in England and Wales, with the number of closures accelerating in summer.

Between the end of June and September, a total of 150 pubs were either demolished or turned into homes and offices - close to the 200 pubs which shut in the whole previous six months. 

*Usa gift to Europe *

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## MeFishToo

Cash GK said:


> Man I was paying 3.70 euros per kg. European consumer is really fucked up. I parked my car as gas is very expensive.. European consumer is paying the price.... winter is on the cornor..


Im driving every day. Doesnt seem to have an impact in my life. How come?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Didnt know you were a conspiracy theorist. Im not going to reply to this Nordstream, weakening Russia, Europe collapsing, USA evil.
> But a cruise missiler is slower than a fighterjet, and I do hope you agree Ukraine have shot down russian jets during this war using manpads? .. Yes? .. So why cant you shot down a cruise missile flying right over your position with a couple of manpads?



It can be done but it is difficult because of small size. It flies low. At low altitude, something going near the speed of sound only gives you a couple of seconds to aim before it disappears from your view.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579573455770783744


----------



## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> Russia has never had a decent army and always relied on sending waves of troops in until the enemy caves.


but that doesnt logically mean that is what will happen in this war- use logic and stop relying on stupid fallacies.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It can be done but it is difficult because of small size. It flies low. At low altitude, something going near the speed of sound only gives you a couple of seconds to aim before it disappears from your view.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579573455770783744


Yeh reminds me of a British news article how a old Ukrainian man shot down sukhoi with a shot gun lol

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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579365688246173696
> The Russian Nazis attacked a childrens playground


don't knew its true or not but in some media say its the work of one air-defense missile that act funny

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## That Guy

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> That was Iranian drone u can't shoot down cruise missile with a manpas for God sake there's too much propaganda from both sides
> Usa and west knows Ukraine can't win the war their only objective is to bleed Russia as much as it can so a weakened Russia might dis-integrate like USSR all at the expense or total destruction of Ukraine, u think west care about Ukraine lol
> 
> Usa is selling gas to Europe at double the price , European economy is collapsing . Usa even destroyed Nord stream 1 shows how much it cares a out europians


Ukraine can and is winning the war.

European economy isn't collapsing, Russia's is.

It's still unclear who destroyed NS1, as every side has a motive to do so, my bet is either Ukraine or Russian hardliners that want put pressure on Putin.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579575568559136768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579578513832955905

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> but that doesnt logically mean that is what will happen in this war- use logic and stop relying on stupid fallacies.


The socalled russian advances in the Bakhmut area has been nothing but endless and pointless platoon sized assaults. So it already did happen.

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## That Guy

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> 50 pubs closing every month as inflation crisis bites
> Jump in operating costs and reluctant consumers inflict pain on industry
> 
> New figures show that there are now around 39,800 pubs in England and Wales, with the number of closures accelerating in summer.
> 
> Between the end of June and September, a total of 150 pubs were either demolished or turned into homes and offices - close to the 200 pubs which shut in the whole previous six months.
> 
> *Usa gift to Europe *


Ah yes, that famous EU country UK which totally didn't leave the EU, and totally isn't suffering from the consequences of BREXIT.

Bro, come the **** on. Is this your entire argument?

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Whether Russia lose or win , Russia will come out of it because of its vast natural resources mainly gas, oil not to forget the wheat .
The biggest loser will be Ukraine with destroyed infrastructure and Europe which will have it's economy destroyed and sent decades back 
And yes usa will also be a winner selling expensive gas to Europe and it's military industries making the most profit

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## That Guy

Hack-Hook said:


> don't knew its true or not but in some media say its the work of one air-defense missile that act funny


Source.


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

That Guy said:


> Ah yes, that famous EU country UK which totally didn't leave the EU, and totally isn't suffering from the consequences of BREXIT.
> 
> Bro, come the **** on. Is this your entire argument?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579554072684036097
Yeh look at france today , police cars running out of fuel , others standing in long long queues to get gasoline blame it also on Brexit


----------



## Cash GK

MeFishToo said:


> Im driving every day. Doesnt seem to have an impact in my life. How come?


3.7 euro per km went up here in spain from .90 cents. I drive around 150km everyday. My restaurant gass bill went 600 to 2000 euros. Even government is giving subsidies but still prices going crazy


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578777433561788416

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## That Guy

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Whether Russia lose or win , Russia will come out of it because of its vast natural resources mainly gas, oil not to forget the wheat .
> The biggest loser will be Ukraine with destroyed infrastructure and Europe which will have it's economy destroyed and sent decades back
> And yes usa will also be a winner selling expensive gas to Europe and it's military industries making the most profit


Ukraine is already rebuilding.

Russia's economy will not recover due to the economic sanctions in place. They're now China's junior partner.

The biggest winner will actually be two nations that no one is talking about here, Azerbaijan and Nigeria who now both have long term contracts to supply gas to the EU.

As for the US, they can't sell more gas ecen if they want to, because all their refineries are already working at full capacity.

You both can laugh all you want, but the truth is the truth. Acting like clowns and ignoring reality will only lead to disappointment.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579541583661518848


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579580923041157120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579582243500331008


That Guy said:


> Russia's economy will not recover due to the economic sanctions in place.



China is the world's factory and China does not sanction Russia considering Russia is long time China client state. Russian civilians have no shortage of consumer products.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578777433561788416



I have a feeling Marine Le Pen will win next election.

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## MeFishToo

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Whether Russia lose or win , Russia will come out of it because of its vast natural resources mainly gas, oil not to forget the wheat .
> The biggest loser will be Ukraine with destroyed infrastructure and Europe which will have it's economy destroyed and sent decades back
> And yes usa will also be a winner selling expensive gas to Europe and it's military industries making the most profit


The combined NATO spending is $1.2 trillion per year. The military industry is making a profit regardless. The donations to Ukraine is a drop in the ocean.
Ukraine is going to be backed financially by the west when this is over, given Ukraine has taken care of internal corruption when reaching the other side. Im not sure the ukrainian leadership survives a postwar election.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> The combined NATO spending is $1.2 trillion per year. The military industry is making a profit regardless. The donations to Ukraine is a drop in the ocean.



Perhaps. But a straw can break a camel's back. The US betrayed South Vietnam and Ghani Afghanistan. There is no reason to believe the US will not betray Zelensky Ukraine. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia is a much more profitable market compared to Ukraine.


----------



## Cash GK

That Guy said:


> Ukraine is already rebuilding.
> 
> Russia's economy will not recover due to the economic sanctions in place.
> 
> The biggest winner will actually be two nations that no one is talking about here, Azerbaijan and Nigeria who now both have long term contracts to supply gas to the EU.
> 
> As for the US, they can't sell more gas ecen if they want to, because all their refineries are already working at full capacity.


Who made you admin on this page. Defence.pk standers are going down.

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## MeFishToo

That Guy said:


> Ukraine is already rebuilding.
> 
> Russia's economy will not recover due to the economic sanctions in place.
> 
> The biggest winner will actually be two nations that no one is talking about here, Azerbaijan and Nigeria who now both have long term contracts to supply gas to the EU.
> 
> As for the US, they can't sell more gas ecen if they want to, because all their refineries are already working at full capacity.


If prices for natural gas stay high others will join the marked for exports. Canada has a lot of potential too.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> If prices for natural gas stay high others will join the marked for exports. Canada has a lot of potential too.



Canada natural gas price is very high. Even hot shower is expensive. No way it is politically feasible in Canada to export natural gas.


----------



## That Guy

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579554072684036097
> Yeh look at france today , police cars running out of fuel , others standing in long long queues to get gasoline blame it also on Brexit


Almost, a random twitter post and no actual source on your claims.

What a nice way to argue.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579580923041157120
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579582243500331008
> 
> 
> China is the world's factory and China does not sanction Russia considering Russia is long time China client state. Russian civilians have no shortage of consumer products.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling Marine Le Pen will win next election.


Stop replying to me with your bullshit troll posts.



MeFishToo said:


> The combined NATO spending is $1.2 trillion per year. The military industry is making a profit regardless. The donations to Ukraine is a drop in the ocean.
> Ukraine is going to be backed financially by the west when this is over, given Ukraine has taken care of internal corruption when reaching the other side. Im not sure the ukrainian leadership survives a postwar election.


Zelensky will likely lose elections if history is anything to go by.

He'll be remembered as a war hero, but a terrible politician mired with corruption allegations. Pretty much similar to what happened with Winston Churchill.



Cash GK said:


> Who made you admin on this page. Defence.pk standers are going down.


Lmao, where did that come from? Are you mad that I challenged your world view with actual facts?

It's funny that you said "standers" instead of "standards". Nice try though.

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## MeFishToo

Cash GK said:


> 3.7 euro per km went up here in spain from .90 cents. I drive around 150km everyday. My restaurant gass bill went 600 to 2000 euros. Even government is giving subsidies but still prices going crazy


Same thing happening here with certain restaurants and bakeries. But its not driven by the war and oil/gas prices alone. Hydro- and windpower has been at all time low because of weather conditions, and the businesses were all just trying to recover from corona lockdowns. So its in a sense a perfect storm, following years of economies being overstimulated. Were all going to get hurt by this major crash - but it was comming anyway. The war in Ukraine was just the last straw.

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## That Guy

MeFishToo said:


> If prices for natural gas stay high others will join the marked for exports. Canada has a lot of potential too.


We're also seeing a massive push in renewable since the start of the war. A lot more electric vehicles and solar panels popping up recently where I live, but that's just anecdotal.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579587465182351362


----------



## Cash GK

MeFishToo said:


> Same thing happening here with certain restaurants and bakeries. But its not driven by the war and oil/gas prices alone. Hydro- and windpower has been at all time low because of weather conditions, and the businesses were all just trying to recover from corona lockdowns. So its in a sense a perfect storm, following years of economies being overstimulated. Were all going to get hurt by this major crash - but it was comming anyway. The war in Ukraine was just the last straw.


We are in deep shit budy.. inflation and now Electricity water gas. Bills duble the prices


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Yanks said bridges are fair targets. Then sure, power plants are also fair targets. No more electricity.

You know, Iskander arti in Kherson can hit power plant in Kiev.

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## MeFishToo

That Guy said:


> We're also seeing a massive push in renewable since the start of the war. A lot more electric vehicles and solar panels popping up recently where I live, but that's just anecdotal.


Its the way its going. But not as fast as proclaimed. The electric grid isnt made for a complete push towards electricity. Im certain I wont have an electric car in my life, unless someone invents a battery that fits in my pocket.

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## MeFishToo

Cash GK said:


> We are in deep shit budy.. inflation and now Electricity water gas. Bills duble the prices


Good luck with your restaurant. I hope you make it.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russia's forces are exhausted, says GCHQ head​








War in Ukraine: Russia's forces are exhausted, says GCHQ head


The intelligence agency's chief will also claim the UK is at a key moment with China in his speech.



www.bbc.co.uk

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## RescueRanger

Cash GK said:


> Who made you admin on this page. Defence.pk standers are going down.










> standers








If you are going to act cute and insult someone about "standards" at least make the effort to spell check and proofread your post before hitting the reply button. FYI @That Guy is one of the most objective and pragmatic posters on PDF. If you don't like the "standers" as you put it here on PDF, you know where the off ramp is. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578668499622252544
--- Back on topic ---
*Present situation:* Russian response with a wider barrage against Ukrainian targets is not unexpected; the question is how long it can now be maintained. However, Iranian drones have added some extra capability. 

*Impact:* Demands for air defence support will increase - Read tweet below:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579396708148338691
*Outlook:* Expect Russian grey zone operations in Germany and Bornholm over the coming days. 


Russia hasn't learned anything from history:

*Afghanistan: Circa 1980's*





*Ukraine: 2022*

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Yanks said bridges are fair targets. Then sure, power plants are also fair targets. No more electricity.
> 
> You know, Iskander arti in Kherson can hit power plant in Kiev.



If blowing up a bridge is an act of terrorism, what does he call his own missile attacks on hospitals, shopping malls, power plants etc? Friendly interactions using explosives?

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## RescueRanger

kingQamaR said:


> If blowing up a bridge is an act of terrorism, what does he call his own missile attacks on hospitals, shopping malls, power plants etc? Friendly interactions using explosives?


Putin introduced a new medal to honour all the men who became fertilizer in Ukraine with the most valorous order of the Washing Machine, 1st Class:

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## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It can be done but it is difficult because of small size. It flies low. At low altitude, something going near the speed of sound only gives you a couple of seconds to aim before it disappears from your view.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579573455770783744


Everything flies low in Ukraine, and it still gets shot down by manpads.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> If blowing up a bridge is an act of terrorism, what does he call his own missile attacks on hospitals, shopping malls, power plants etc? Friendly interactions using explosives?



Hospitals, shopping malls don't work without electricity. Targeting the few power plants is enough. No need to waste missiles.



MeFishToo said:


> Everything flies low in Ukraine, and it still gets shot down by manpads.



Try it yourself. Try shooting a cruise missile with a MANPADS. Let me know how it goes.

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## RescueRanger

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Try it yourself. Try shooting a cruise missile with a MANPADS. Let me know how it goes.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579467284317605889

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579590744444407809


RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579467284317605889



Some say it is a drone, not a cruise missile. Anyway, it is not easy to shoot a cruise missile with a MANPADS.

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## MeFishToo

RescueRanger said:


> *Outlook:* Expect Russian grey zone operations in Germany and Bornholm over the coming days.


Military background people voicing their opinion for the last 10 years have warned that Bornholm in the Baltic Sea was easy prey for the russians. Politicians ignored them. The idea (the cheapest) was that we would have a 10 year warning before a serious conflict. Now, if you chose to ignore the warnings, you have months and no defence, no submarines, coastal defence, no ground to air defence. Just a few fighter jets operating from a runway with no anti air defence, and a reconnaisance batallion. I can assure you Denmark will be calling Stoltenberg if something happens around Bornholm.

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## ziaulislam

As predicted Russia is escalating
some analyst have view different from consensus view here on PDF(that ukriane will take everything back)











I don't see ukriane winning military..it's simply not possible


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukraine's population is falling fast. 10 years from now because of war Ukraine's population plunges to less than 20 million as millions flee Ukraine.


----------



## RescueRanger

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579590744444407809
> 
> 
> Some say it is a drone, not a cruise missile. Anyway, it is not easy to shoot a cruise missile with a MANPADS.


... Here is audio of a Kalbir missile, compare it to the sound in that video.


----------



## SaadH

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579441632688373761
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579436363250040834
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579391152733978624
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579382726427541507
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579380018681360384
> 
> 
> 150 million warriors. Russians are from the north. Cold weather makes brutal people. Just ask Mongols and Manchus. How they conquered China and India. Ukrainians are southerners. Warm weather means weak people.


Small correction, Mongols never conquered India, they were twice defeated by the local Muslim Turks and India was spared their destruction. Mongols did conquer and destroy the dominant power in Middle East and Abbassid Caliphate, a blow from which Islamic civilization never recovered.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RescueRanger said:


> ... Here is audio of a Kalbir missile, compare it to the sound in that video.



There could be drones nearby acting as decoys. Besides, MANPADS don't work well at night due to lack of night vision.



SaadH said:


> Small correction, Mongols never conquered India, they were twice defeated by the local Muslim Turks and India was spared their destruction. Mongols did conquer and destroy the dominant power in Middle East and Abbassid Caliphate, a blow from which Islamic civilization never recovered.



Mughals conquered India and Mughals were from Uzbekistan.


----------



## RescueRanger

Biden promises Ukraine ‘advanced air defense systems’ after Russian missile strikes - CNN ticker. ​

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## beast89

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579578513832955905


Dude will get results


----------



## RoadAmerica

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579554072684036097
> Yeh look at france today , police cars running out of fuel , others standing in long long queues to get gasoline blame it also on Brexit


Dude the unions are striking otherwise they’d be delivering fuel.
Try again 🙄

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579449179558277122

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Canada natural gas price is very high. Even hot shower is expensive. No way it is politically feasible in Canada to export natural gas.


Completely false. 
Seriously canada can’t afford to heat their water 🙄

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579582243500331008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579580923041157120

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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> Huge meeting engagement reportedly happening north-west of Kreminna right now. RUAF took whatever they had in the area, and threw it trying to preempt AUF strike.
> 
> South front: Ukraine has shifted the focus of the offensive to the Western flank this time. Did they anticipated RUAF throwing its reserves near the river?
> 
> We are up to a lot of news tomorrow.



RUAF seem to be trying a preemptive attack again


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579580113813147649

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## RescueRanger

Germany to 'quickly' send air defense systems to Ukraine​








Germany to 'quickly' send Ukraine air defense systems – DW – 10/10/2022


Germany is set to deliver the first of four high-tech air defense systems within "days." The rush to move up the delivery comes after heavy Russian missile strikes hit major Ukrainian cities including Kyiv.




www.dw.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579420458084356098
Peace negotiations should start or this is going to be World War III. There is nothing in between.


----------



## RescueRanger

Russian mi-8mtpr-1 (Electronic Warfare) helicopter operating in Ukraine













Enjoy the ridiculous promotional video which looks like it has been made by a 16-year-old armature using the Unreal Engine:






*Okay one last meme, I've got work in an hour:*

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579600237592981504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579564912388415488

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RescueRanger said:


> Biden promises Ukraine ‘advanced air defense systems’ after Russian missile strikes - CNN ticker. ​



No use. They target the few power plants. No electricity. Millions flee Ukraine because no electricity. They send in 100 drones to deplete Patriot PAC 3, then they send in 100 Iskanders to bomb the power plants.

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## RescueRanger

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> No use. They target the few power plants. No electricity. Millions flee Ukraine because no electricity. They send in 100 drones to deplete Patriot PAC 3, then they send in 100 Iskanders to bomb the power plants.


Lol 🤣😂

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Completely false.
> Seriously canada can’t afford to heat their water 🙄



Canadians are poor people with low living standard.



RescueRanger said:


> Lol 🤣😂



Patriot PAC 3 cannot stop Iskander. It's too fast. They need THAAD.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Canadians are poor people with low living standard.
> 
> 
> 
> Patriot PAC 3 cannot stop Iskander. It's too fast. They need THAAD.


Their standards are pretty much the same as Americans.
I travel there yearly and have friends/family there
Tell me another fairytale?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Their standards are pretty much the same as Americans.
> I travel there yearly and have friends/family there
> Tell me another fairytale?



Americans have low living standard compared to Chinese.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Crimea: Vast exit queues after bridge explosion • FRANCE 24 English​

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## The SC




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RescueRanger said:


> Germany to 'quickly' send air defense systems to Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany to 'quickly' send Ukraine air defense systems – DW – 10/10/2022
> 
> 
> Germany is set to deliver the first of four high-tech air defense systems within "days." The rush to move up the delivery comes after heavy Russian missile strikes hit major Ukrainian cities including Kyiv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dw.com



Germany is going to spend billions on Ukraine for nothing. What a waste.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579638251476127748

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## kuge

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579424264947519488


more spectacular than the one by russia


----------



## Wood




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


>



It works on hobby drones but not on military grade drones which have secure transmission.





__





Loading…






www.ruaviation.com


----------



## -=virus=-

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It works on hobby drones but not on military grade drones which have secure transmission.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ruaviation.com


Pretty sure I saw some pics of Russians using off the shelf DJI Mavics too.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

-=virus=- said:


> Pretty sure I saw some pics of Russians using off the shelf DJI Mavics too.



The new ones like Mini 3 Pro and Avata are very small and fly high which makes them difficult to detect.

These don't have that long a transmission range. Only 10 to 15 km. Best used for calling in a missile strike. That's about it.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579653617405288449

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mi-28 shturmoviks 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579657615856238595


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## Cash GK

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 886142
> 
> 
> View attachment 886143
> 
> 
> If you are going to act cute and insult someone about "standards" at least make the effort to spell check and proofread your post before hitting the reply button. FYI @That Guy is one of the most objective and pragmatic posters on PDF. If you don't like the "standers" as you put it here on PDF, you know where the off ramp is.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578668499622252544
> --- Back on topic ---
> *Present situation:* Russian response with a wider barrage against Ukrainian targets is not unexpected; the question is how long it can now be maintained. However, Iranian drones have added some extra capability.
> 
> *Impact:* Demands for air defence support will increase - Read tweet below:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579396708148338691
> *Outlook:* Expect Russian grey zone operations in Germany and Bornholm over the coming days.
> 
> 
> Russia hasn't learned anything from history:
> 
> *Afghanistan: Circa 1980's*
> View attachment 886144
> 
> 
> *Ukraine: 2022*
> View attachment 886146


You don't worry.. I am already on a project which is similar to defence.pk. as soon as it get ready. I will let you know. I am bring a team which is mix of highly qualified people. I will provide a place where people can not be bully

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## aviator_fan

fatman17 said:


> Forwarded:
> 
> I wish every single person in the West would listen to Putin's speech. Obviously, that won't happen so let me summarise as a professional translator for 10+ years. He states, as he has done from the outset, what his intentions and complaints are in the plainest terms possible
> 
> Setting aside his brief comments on the recent "referendums", he spends most of his speech discussing the West. His primary complaint isn't NATO expansion, which gets only a cursory mention. The West is greedy and seeks to enslave and colonise other nations, like Russia.
> 
> The West uses the power of finance and technology to enforce its will on other nations. To collect what he calls the "hegemon's tax". To this end the West destabilises countries, creates terrorist enclaves and most of all seeks to deprive other countries of sovereignty.
> 
> It is this "avarice" and desire to preserve its power that is the reason for the "hybrid war" the collective West is "waging on Russia". They want us to be a "colony". They do not want us to be free, they want Russians to be a mob of soulless slaves - direct quote.
> 
> The rules-based order the West goes on about is "nonsense". Who made these rules? Who agreed to them? Russia is an ancient country and civilization and we will not play by these "rigged" rules. The West has no moral authority to challenge the referendums because it has violated...the borders of other countries. Western elites are "totalitarian, despotic and apartheidistic" - direct quote. They are racist against Russia and other countries and nations. "Russophobia is racism". They discriminate by calling themselves the "civilised world".
> 
> They colonised, started the global slave trade, genocided native Americans, pillaged India and Africa, forced China to buy opium through war. We, on the other hand, are proud that we "led" the anti-colonial movement that helped countries develop to reduce poverty and inequality.
> 
> They are Russophobic (they hate us) because we didn't allow our country to be pillaged by creating a strong CENTRALISED (emphasis his) state based on Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism. They have been trying to destabilise our country since the 17th century in the Times......of Trouble (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_T…). Eventually, they managed to "get their hands on our riches" at the end of the 20th century. They called us friends and partners while pumping out trillions of dollars (his irony game is strong today).
> 
> We remember this. We didn't forget. The West claims to bring freedom and democracy to other countries but it's the exact opposite of the truth. The unipolar world is anti-democratic by its very nature. It is a lie. They used nuclear weapons, creating a precedent. They flattened German cities without "any military need to do so". There was no need for this except to scare us and the rest of the world. Korea, Vietnam. To this day they "occupy" Japan, South Korea and Germany and other countries while cynically calling them "allies".
> 
> The West has surveillance over the leaders of these nations who "swallow these insults like the slaves they are".
> 
> He then talks about bioweapon research (haven't heard about them for a while) and human experiments "including in Ukraine".
> 
> The US rules the world by the power of the fist. Any country which seeks to challenge Western hegemony becomes an enemy. Their neocolonialism is cloaked in lies like "containment" of Russia, China and Iran. The concept of truth has been destroyed with fakes and extreme......propaganda(irony game still strong).
> 
> You cannot feed your people with printed dollars and social media. You need food and energy. But Western elites have no desire to find a solution to the food and energy crises *they* (emphasis his) created.
> 
> They solved the problems at the start of 20c with WW1 and the US established dominance of the world via the dollar as a result of WW2. In the 80s they had another crisis they solved by "plundering our country". Now they want to solve their problems by "breaking Russia".
> 
> Russia "understands its responsibility to the international community" and will "do everything to cool the heads of these neocolonials who are destined to fail".
> 
> They're crazy. I want to speak to all Russian citizens, do we want to replace mum and dad with parent 1 and 2?
> 
> They invented genders and claim you can "transition". Do we want this for our children?
> 
> We have a different vision.
> 
> They have abandoned religion and embraced Satanism - direct quote.
> 
> The world is going through a revolutionary transformation. A multipolar world offers nations freedom to develop as they wish and they make up the majority of the world.
> 
> We have many like-minded friends in Western countries. We see and appreciate their support. They are forming liberation, anti-colonial movements as we speak - direct quote. These will only grow.
> 
> We are fighting for a fair world for our country. The idea of exceptionalism is criminal and we must turn this shameful page. The breaking of the West's hegemony is INEVITABLE (emphasis his).
> 
> There is no going back. We are fighting for our "great (as in big), historic Russia". Our values are (irony game crescendo): love of our fellow man, compassion and mercy.
> 
> Truth is with us, Russia is with us.
> 
> That's the end of the speech. As I said from day 1, the purpose of what Putin is doing in Ukraine is to throw the West off its pedestal. This isn't about NATO or Ukraine, this is the big play to replace the current world order.


Who died and made him Tsar and spokesperson for the Russian population. Nobody. At least nobody for the last 20 years

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## Cash GK

SaadH said:


> Small correction, Mongols never conquered India, they were twice defeated by the local Muslim Turks and India was spared their destruction. Mongols did conquer and destroy the dominant power in Middle East and Abbassid Caliphate, a blow from which Islamic civilization never recovered.


I agree but funder of mugal empire baber mirza was grand grand son of tamur lang and tamur wife was gand gand daughter of gangaz khan. That mean mungul became mugal inindia and they converted to Islam


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## sammuel

Cash GK said:


> You don't worry.. I am already on a project which is similar to defence.pk. as soon as it get ready. I will let you know. I am bring a team which is mix of highly qualified people. I will provide a place where people can not be bully



You wrote an offensive remark and now complain about being bullied.

I understand it is your last post here , so bye bye.

~

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## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> Oky genius! Let's start from unification of Germany events. What was agreed by German Chancellor US and soviet leaders.
> Unification of journey was agreed on one principle principle That Allied forces will not go into the East Germany Later Allied forces went into the East Germany Lithuania Georgia Poland turkey keep extending to their borders.As we all know putin was there in East Germany as kgb official and he is main witness of that agreement when he demands to fullfil that agreement. I believe he as right. You know when nato got into the 🇹🇷 turkey.they blocked black sea for Russian. When nato got into Spain. Nato blocked Chablalter for them. British n French sea was already blocked for them. Soviet or Russian sea as we all know it is frozen for 8 months a year. Biggest country on planet it needs sea routes to trade with world. It is like if I park my car infront of your doorstep for 40 years what will you do..
> Now come to Cuban Missile crisis. Do you know why it had happened. Because USA had installed atomic bombs and its misiles defence systems in Turkey and soviet Retaliated with cuban missil installment. When soviet installed those missile near US borders. US started crying like Prostitute.
> If we follow the example of cuban missile crisis and amaraicn reaction. Then give right to Russians to defend their mother land when nato keep Extending to their borders on American behalf.
> You know what cost soviet paid being Blocked in Turkish spanish franch British waters. They jumped in Afghanistan to have Access to warm waters. They thought if they go to European waters there will be world War 3. They thought Afghanistan n pakistan are much easy targets. Their Misscalculation cost them to lose 12 of its provinces including East Germany.
> This time they took this risk to fight with Europe. They know if they did not stop amaraicns in Europe then their end is near as Russian nation.
> End of story is with out knowing anything about Global politics. Dont jump in into discussions with harsh words.
> Now look into the map how much territory they lost. Orange color they lost the land in green color it was their tread routes . Green color routes are blocked by nato..now they have 1 short route via Afghanistan and Pakistan and here comes removal of Imran khan by Americans. Do you understand what i mean. Same way they killed first pm of Pakistan. He was ready to give tread access to warm waters.


With your revisionist ignorant logic of trying to justify an attack in this century you are bringing back grievances from 70 years ago. Thats genius. Grievances are only brought up by the not winning side.

Why stop here: why not then get Uzbekistan and Kazakastan get occupied too. In fact why don't you move there first and then promote the idea of living under Russian rule.

There is no moral right here (ether Russia or the west). Don't make Russia sound like some poor innocent victim that has historical grievance so everybody on this thread should magically support them.

Soviets went into Afghanistan to expand but they failed. They also built their satellite states with direct control over Hungary and Poland. But they could not keep control of them and eventually lost them.

So if your issue is Russia is miserable at maintaining its influence and so they should get Ukraine, thats a different matter. But your logic , regardless of how far back you go to blame western countries, does not change history or Russia's track record of having its own (but failed) record of not expanding and then retaining influence. 

May be the country you live in can surrender to the occupying force the next time its attacked under the logic that there is a legitimate grievance and you can bring some history in at that time.

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## Cash GK

sammuel said:


> You wrote an offensive remark and now complain about being bullied.
> 
> I understand it is your last post here , so bye bye.
> 
> ~


Who i Offended? That admain is Continuesly giv2ing negative ratings to a user. I objected on that. By the way I am working on project like defence.pk since may. As I feel this web is working under......... you know what I mean. And a Isreal going to tell if I stay on this web or not. I know you have seen my previous posts where I take Isreal for all his wrong doings in Palestine.. common man.. you Israelis are funny

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## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> . You did not asnwer my questions and still try to tell others about modalities. Nato attacked Iraq right? Afghanistan right?. You attacked lybia right?. . Answer those questions first.. UN is joke. It is Prostitute which works for USA uk France and Isreal. UN CAN notT DO NOTHING. Look at Kashmir and Palestine


When you create your new project, pls first understand what the title of the thread means and then respect it in that forum. You are distracting from this topic. Nobody is debating that somebody did right or wrong. This thread is on Ukraine and its war with Russia.

There are other threads for Iraq/Afghanistan or what Israel does. By saying Ukraine should win is not the same as saying that all other wars were justified. Stop distracting from this thread.

Oh and by the way, Russia also invaded Afghanistan and attacked Syria and killed 10s of thousands.



Cash GK said:


> Iraq and liybia were supper rich countries then saudia and Qatar. Go and see those countries are shit whol now after your imposed war.. you still defending attack on Iraq Syria libiya Palestinian Kashmir. That shows how dubleface bc idiot you are.
> We dont give any one morality lesson.. as you accepted iraq did not had WMD. When you going to compensate them. Any Afghan was involved in 9/11?. Osama used to dine in wighthouse. He was the man who made usa solo supper power after defeating soviet in Afghanistan. So dont talk shit here. We not idiots like many in west. Brain size of chicken. Go read about petrol dollar economy and Wallstreet guys those who meet sadam and qadafi after arab Israel war with offer to protect their dictatorship if they sell petrol in dollars. Those dictators who are selling petrol in dollars they are best budy of west. Those refused they are under mud. You are ignorant n funny.. West sell one wine with three labels Democracy humenrights and terrorism. Where Iraqi Palestinian Kashmir lives are less important then Ukrainens.
> You and your kind is birth of this media mafia.


May be you should consult with your Saudi and UAE brothers on why fellow Yemeni lives were dispensable and killed tens of thousands of their fellow arabs and yet still get their butts kicked.

The idea of moral right in this world will never give you the peace of mind you seek. Nobody here has stated that Israel is justified or what India is doing in Kashmir. But just because that injjustice is taking place is not reason for this to happen again



kingQamaR said:


> Meanwhile Russia have just fired missiles into Zaporizhzhia killing 17 people. Zaporizhzhia is one of the four areas where Putin claimed that 92% voted for him recently, so is he now intentionally killing Russians?


80 missiles with 17 dead? Either numbers of casualties are way off, or these missiles have the letahlity of a lego kit

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## Cash GK

aviator_fan said:


> When you create your new project, pls first understand what the title of the thread means and then respect it in that forum. You are distracting from this topic. Nobody is debating that somebody did right or wrong. This thread is on Ukraine and its war with Russia.
> 
> There are other threads for Iraq/Afghanistan or what Israel does. By saying Ukraine should win is not the same as saying that all other wars were justified. Stop distracting from this thread.
> 
> Oh and by the way, Russia also invaded Afghanistan and attacked Syria and killed 10s of thousands.


First question i will not asnwer second why Russian attacked Afghanistan in 80 they were blocked in western waters by our western friends. They were force to jump in Afghanistan to reach in warm waters . I belive if they tried to go there as they trying to go now it could have be world War three. And we inch closer to world War three after Russian Retaliation.By the way one Israeli objected on my post now my own Pakistanis are objecting lol Pakistan is getting funny these days .
This is sovit map and Russian map you can look yourself how much land they lost in last 40 years because of blockade. It is like you slice the cake slowly


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## aviator_fan

kingQamaR said:


> Meanwhile Russia have just fired missiles into Zaporizhzhia killing 17 people. Zaporizhzhia is one of the four areas where Putin claimed that 92% voted for him recently, so is he now intentionally killing Russians?


80 missiles with 17 dead? Either numbers of casualties are way off, or these missiles have the letahlity of a lego kit



Easy When said:


> Whether you are for Putin or against him, he is the last man standing against a unipolar world where everyone outside the US becomes a slave to the USD.


The world is already slave to the USD and Putin and his cronies were already in that category with their properties and holdings in the West. They stole from Russia to park it in the west. Or did you not know that?

And if Putin really was the saviour against US hegemony, this was a shitty way to demonstrate it by taking his own country back to N. Korea standards in the next 20 years. He should have maintained his illusion of greatness by soft power and interference around the world. Even if war stops tomorrow, Russia prestige is gone, its weapons unless go for free, nobody will buy. 

And its cut off economically from the world and unable to import anything from any advanced economy. 

So your wish may have been noble that he was standing up to a unipolar world. But he did it in an idiotic way

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## Cash GK

aviator_fan said:


> When you create your new project, pls first understand what the title of the thread means and then respect it in that forum. You are distracting from this topic. Nobody is debating that somebody did right or wrong. This thread is on Ukraine and its war with Russia.
> 
> There are other threads for Iraq/Afghanistan or what Israel does. By saying Ukraine should win is not the same as saying that all other wars were justified. Stop distracting from this thread.
> 
> Oh and by the way, Russia also invaded Afghanistan and attacked Syria and killed 10s of thousands.
> 
> 
> May be you should consult with your Saudi and UAE brothers on why fellow Yemeni lives were dispensable and killed tens of thousands of their fellow arabs and yet still get their butts kicked.
> 
> The idea of moral right in this world will never give you the peace of mind you seek. Nobody here has stated that Israel is justified or what India is doing in Kashmir. But just because that injjustice is taking place is not reason for this to happen again
> 
> 
> 80 missiles with 17 dead? Either numbers of casualties are way off, or these missiles have the letahlity of a lego kit


This world is like jungle. Where saudies Israeli amaraicns Russians Indian France uk the powerful countries have right to attack and occupy destroye poor countries


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## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


>


useless against Iranian drone as they don't care if they are jammed or not . and the only way they know to land is by diving nose down into their target


----------



## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> They did not get free pass. But you either not qualify to tell the people what rules they need to follow. This game is stared by you guys on the cost of Ukrainens lives. It is you who kicked out majority government in Ukraine and brought minority government way you guys did with Mr khan' government. You guys do not qualify to be humen right champions. When you guys start Condemning Israelis in Palestine syria Jordan and India’s actions in Kashmir and American actions in Iraq Syria Afghanistan. We will stand with you guys but as it istoo late for your Condomination. We will let you fight your own wars. We were no body for you guys and will be no body in this war bro. What goes around comes around..


You are making yourself sound like a pathetic fool by bringing matters not connected to this war on this thread. Its reducing the IQ level of the conversation. Looks like you like to use western tech (everything you are using to access this forum is a result of western inventions, but may have been manufactured elsewhere). Probably some of your family members got western vaccines. If you have an issue on US in Iraq, there were posts by the thousands on that matter when it was relevant. Its not relevant. US left Iraq. Nobody is sitting in the US saying 'wow that was such a great thing to go in'. Thats the reality. Only you are living that era as a way to cover your below average IQ Putin whose main job is to keep on replacing his generals .


----------



## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Hospitals, shopping malls don't work without electricity. Targeting the few power plants is enough. No need to waste missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> Try it yourself. Try shooting a cruise missile with a MANPADS. Let me know how it goes.


Hospitals have fuel electric generator for emergencies.

Anyway, there is something more criminal than intentionally disrupt the activity of a hopsital?


----------



## aviator_fan

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> He wouldn't want to use his soldiers to waste in Ukraine , he's keeping a big portion of them intact to face bigger war against west , that's what ay sane person would do


Oh you mean the competent soldiers that he can't trust to protect the bridge but he has outsourced that protection to FSB? The rest of his military is there to suppress his civilian population as Tsar Putin wants to be king for life


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## serenity

aviator_fan said:


> 80 missiles with 17 dead? Either numbers of casualties are way off, or these missiles have the letahlity of a lego kit
> 
> 
> The world is already slave to the USD and Putin and his cronies were already in that category with their properties and holdings in the West. They stole from Russia to park it in the west. Or did you not know that?
> 
> And if Putin really was the saviour against US hegemony, this was a shitty way to demonstrate it by taking his own country back to N. Korea standards in the next 20 years. He should have maintained his illusion of greatness by soft power and interference around the world. Even if war stops tomorrow, Russia prestige is gone, its weapons unless go for free, nobody will buy.
> 
> And its cut off economically from the world and unable to import anything from any advanced economy.
> 
> So your wish may have been noble that he was standing up to a unipolar world. But he did it in an idiotic way



Putin is a US Anglo pawn piece. There is hardly a doubt.

These men and nations at least their leaderships are all in the same pocket. It is a performance as it has always been.

Russia's recent hits on Ukraine are just to keep their internal power structure as status quo and intact so that no disruption to the leadership can occur. They may simply be a gesture. If not and Russia escalates war to highest degree without nuclear, then that is the will and design of those in charge of UK, USA, and Russia.


----------



## aviator_fan

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> 50 pubs closing every month as inflation crisis bites
> Jump in operating costs and reluctant consumers inflict pain on industry
> 
> New figures show that there are now around 39,800 pubs in England and Wales, with the number of closures accelerating in summer.
> 
> Between the end of June and September, a total of 150 pubs were either demolished or turned into homes and offices - close to the 200 pubs which shut in the whole previous six months.
> 
> *Usa gift to Europe *


Better for the tax payer in terms of health outcomes of population.Thats the ultimate gift



925boy said:


> but that doesnt logically mean that is what will happen in this war- use logic and stop relying on stupid fallacies.


Are they waiting for a wedding invite to put their best? No f))*(9(*&ing country in history of the last 100 years has gone in with a mercanary force and then mobilized its prisoners. You go in with the best. But for some reason there is an idiotic fallacy that 'oh yes there must be a bigger and better equipped force'. Even the tank regiment protecting Moscow has been used here



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Americans have low living standard compared to Chinese.


Spoken like a true loser where the suburban peasants come to work in the city and only in the last 5 years have gotten the basic human right to send their kids to school where they live vs. in the country side. Fortunately for the great Chinese people, you are just a low life and don't speak for them.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Americans have low living standard compared to Chinese.


Spoken like a true loser where the suburban peasants come to work in the city and only in the last 5 years have gotten the basic human right to send their kids to school where they live vs. in the country side. Fortunately for the great Chinese people, you are just a low life and don't speak for them.


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Germany is going to spend billions on Ukraine for nothing. What a waste.


Humiliating Putin will be worth it.


----------



## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Anglos are butchers. Anglos butchered millions of native Americans, Australians, New Zealanders.


This is why after thousands of years China can only dream of Taiwan, and is happy with Hong Kong. And got butchered by Japanese, and if it wasn't for Anglos, eastern China would be under Japanese control still


----------



## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> First question i will not asnwer second why Russian attacked Afghanistan in 80 they were blocked in western waters by our western friends. They were force to jump in Afghanistan to reach in warm waters . I belive if they tried to go there as they trying to go now it could have be world War three. And we inch closer to world War three after Russian Retaliation.By the way one Israeli objected on my post now my own Pakistanis are objecting lol Pakistan is getting funny these days .
> This is sovit map and Russian map you can look yourself how much land they lost in last 40 years because of blockade. It is like you slice the cake slowly
> View attachment 886172


You sound worse with each post you make. If you are upset about being flagged , its not about your viewpoint but the stupidity.

What is this the 1800s that Soviets needed a warm water port? They have ice breakers and can navigage all of north pole. You have empathy for their desire of a warm water port. Their fu*()(ng geography put them in the cold and they don't have a warm water port. Not the West. And you know Afghanistan does not have a port. Look up on google map, and it will tell you that in 1980 also it did not have a warm water port.

And it is not a birth right to have a warm water port that a country that does not have one, can go invade, kill tens of thousands, produce millions of refugees to have a go at it. I wonder where you could even find like minded analysts like you to join your project that have this 'birthright' perspective. From that logic then everything that anybody did or does is a birth right. Including slavery (access to cheap labor being a birth right by extension)

You are making no sense to justify the true losing empire. Russians have lost through out the 100 years. ONly reason they prevailed over Germany was because Germany was occupied on the western front. 

Now stop with the stupidity and put something makes some sense (or go cry victim and start your project)

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## Cash GK

aviator_fan said:


> You sound worse with each post you make. If you are upset about being flagged , its not about your viewpoint but the stupidity.
> 
> What is this the 1800s that Soviets needed a warm water port? They have ice breakers and can navigage all of north pole. You have empathy for their desire of a warm water port. Their fu*()(ng geography put them in the cold and they don't have a warm water port. Not the West. And you know Afghanistan does not have a port. Look up on google map, and it will tell you that in 1980 also it did not have a warm water port.
> 
> And it is not a birth right to have a warm water port that a country that does not have one, can go invade, kill tens of thousands, produce millions of refugees to have a go at it. I wonder where you could even find like minded analysts like you to join your project that have this 'birthright' perspective. From that logic then everything that anybody did or does is a birth right. Including slavery (access to cheap labor being a birth right by extension)
> 
> You are making no sense to justify the true losing empire. Russians have lost through out the 100 years. ONly reason they prevailed over Germany was because Germany was occupied on the western front.
> 
> Now stop with the stupidity and put something makes some sense (or go cry victim and start your project)


Oky what els. Are you the same Israeli which was upset on my post now you are using Pakistani flags. Right? You need to understand one thing my Israeli friend. We are very close to world War three. Those who are enjoying and making fun of this situation and they taking this as some random move they are mistaken. This war will finish around 5 billions people on earth. Do you get my point.. our stupid leaders invited this war at home.


----------



## Enigma SIG

aviator_fan said:


> Looks like you like to use western tech (everything you are using to access this forum is a result of western inventions, but may have been manufactured elsewhere).



I mean we won't be even using PC's if it weren't for Greeks / Persian / Arab centers of learning back in the day. No one civilization can call themselves the embodiment of knowledge. Lets stop throwing out generalist statements like "western inventions" just because you don't have any other argument left.


----------



## aviator_fan

Enigma SIG said:


> I mean we won't be even using PC's if it weren't for Greeks / Persian / Arab centers of learning back in the day. No one civilization can call themselves the embodiment of knowledge. Lets stop throwing out generalist statements like "western inventions" just because you don't have any other argument left.


The argument was in context of 'Putin is so great' and 'west is so evil'. This is not about evil and good. Its about who is winning and can loser have a winning scenario. So if west is so evil then swear off all things west then.


----------



## Cash GK

Enigma SIG said:


> I mean we won't be even using PC's if it weren't for Greeks / Persian / Arab centers of learning back in the day. No one civilization can call themselves the embodiment of knowledge. Lets stop throwing out generalist statements like "western inventions" just because you don't have any other argument left.


He does not know who was father of algorithm. Without algorithm his laptop can not work. Tell him Who was father of morden gps system.


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## Viet

aviator_fan said:


> 80 missiles with 17 dead? Either numbers of casualties are way off, or these missiles have the letahlity of a lego kit
> 
> 
> The world is already slave to the USD and Putin and his cronies were already in that category with their properties and holdings in the West. They stole from Russia to park it in the west. Or did you not know that?
> 
> And if Putin really was the saviour against US hegemony, this was a shitty way to demonstrate it by taking his own country back to N. Korea standards in the next 20 years. He should have maintained his illusion of greatness by soft power and interference around the world. Even if war stops tomorrow, Russia prestige is gone, its weapons unless go for free, nobody will buy.
> 
> And its cut off economically from the world and unable to import anything from any advanced economy.
> 
> So your wish may have been noble that he was standing up to a unipolar world. But he did it in an idiotic way


Russia fired 80 missiles to kill 8 people.
Great terror 
litte success.

This terror will get a response by Ukraine and the West.


----------



## Cash GK

aviator_fan said:


> The argument was in context of 'Putin is so great' and 'west is so evil'. This is not about evil and good. Its about who is winning and can loser have a winning scenario. So if west is so evil then swear off all things west then.


You taking it very wrong my dear Israeli friend. Many Western are not bad infact they very good human. But their establecimient used media as tool to run the lies.. one side they say attack on Iraq was right what Isreal is doing it is right. What Indians are doing in Kashmir they doing right but other side they what Russia is doing it is wrong we have problem with duble standers. You have to accept both side did wrong rather with amaraicn attack on Iraq Syria. Or ireali attack on Syria Jordan Palestine or Russian attack on Ukrainen. Whey selective justice

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Russia fired 80 missiles to kill 8 people.
> Great terror
> litte success.
> 
> This terror will get a response by Ukraine and the West.


come on recall when west fired 60 missile into Syria to take out a warehouse and kill how many ? 4-5 guards.
that was called precision strike this one great terror and little success

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## Enigma SIG

aviator_fan said:


> So if west is so evil then swear off all things west then.


Couldn't care less about State propaganda and definitions of good/evil.
There's no "all things west". All your tech is being manufactured in China.


----------



## kingQamaR

Cash GK said:


> You taking it very wrong my dear Israeli friend. Many Western are not bad infact they very good human. But their establecimient used media as tool to run the lies.. one side they say attack on Iraq was right what Isreal is doing it is right. What Indians are doing in Kashmir they doing right but other side they what Russia is doing it is wrong we have problem with duble standers. You have to accept both side did wrong rather with amaraicn attack on Iraq Syria. Or ireali attack on Syria Jordan Palestine or Russian attack on Ukrainen. Whey selective justice



A good example was that before the identity of the killer in Norway was identified (Anders Behring Breivik), the act was labelled in the media as that of Islamic terrorism. 

Yes. I think the media has a part to play. Its also a general attitude of people to believe the media outright. The western media really only gives people what they want. If people in the west were really uncomfortable with it, they would complain or watch something else, and the media would change its attitude.

Ps, don’t go out on a limb here bhai, for putim Russia , moscow has been Pakistan’s sworn enemy and Indians biggest arms provider and has blocked all Kashmiris resolutions against filthy Indians crimes in IOK

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## alimobin memon

Wow now I know how many here in this thread are actually worth discussing this war is worth and whom with its time wasting. Manpands vs Cruise missiles. Like Topgun 2 where su57 downed by f14. in close combat.


----------



## RescueRanger

Analysis: Putin has backed himself into a corner - and had no choice but to escalate​Our *security and defence editor Deborah Haynes* says Vladimir Putin had no choice but to escalate the war in Ukraine after backing himself into a corner.
Here's the latest Haynes had on the situation...
"The problem that Putin has is that he's backed himself into a corner. He can't back down because that would effectively mean the end of his presidency if he failed in Ukraine, given all of the fake news that he has used to support his argument for invading in the first place. 
"And yet his military is failing. It failed to take Kyiv, it failed to seize swathes of territory in the east and the south and to hold them.
"That's now being massively challenged by Ukraine and so what options does he have left other than to escalate - and that's what we're seeing.
"We're seeing in terms of the annexation of those four regions that he did last month, with the drafting of hundreds of thousands of Russians into the military - and now with this huge barrage of missile strikes."



Cash GK said:


> You don't worry.. I am already on a project which is similar to defence.pk. as soon as it get ready. I will let you know. I am bring a team which is mix of highly qualified people. I will provide a place where people can not be bully

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## alimobin memon

Viet said:


> Russia fired 80 missiles to kill 8 people.
> Great terror
> litte success.
> 
> This terror will get a response by Ukraine and the West.


Man seriously you think killing people is always a form of terror ?


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> also, you can use trees to make toilet paper. Do you know that?


He didn't even know Rouble were print on high strength fabric, not tree, do you think he knew that??


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> useless against Iranian drone as they don't care if they are jammed or not . and the only way they know to land is by diving nose down into their target


those Iran suicide drones are powered by primitive 2 cycle fuel motor. They are cheap, loud, they are slow, they fly deep. They aim static targets. a challenge for Ukraine air defense however not impossible to stop. Ukraine needs some rapid guns like Gepards. from military perspective they cause too little damage to turn the tide of the war.


jhungary said:


> He didn't even know Rouble were print on high strength fabric, not tree, do you think he knew that??


He implies Russia can print rubbe like US prints dollar. It’s like comparing a beggar to a millionaire.


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> those Iran suicide drones are powered by primitive 2 cycle fuel motor. They are loud, they are slow, they fly deep. They aim static targets. a challenge for Ukraine air defense however not impossible to stop. Ukraine needs some rapid guns like Gepards. But from military perspective they cause too little damage to turn the tide of the war.
> 
> He implies Russia can print rubbe like US prints dollar. It’s like comparing a beggar to a millionaire.


I know what he is implying, I am just playing words here.


----------



## James David

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Americans have low living standard compared to Chinese.


Oh My GODS I'm movin to China then!!! I'll get citizenship..... on second thought I'd rather stay here in the Garden State wy would I go there when I lot of 'em Chinese wants to come over here in the US!?   



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Anglos are butchers. Anglos butchered millions of native Americans, Australians, New Zealanders.


We're ANGELS compared to your Mao Zedong.

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## Viet

alimobin memon said:


> Man seriously you think killing people is always a form of terror ?


Not per se. The world is overpopulated.
Let’s say Pakistan and India go to war.
India artillery targets civil infrastructure instead of military infra in Pakistan, that’s terror that’s against war conduct.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> NATO been in dire need to restock its conventional land forces for decades anyways.
> 
> Modern IFVs basically never arrived into service in most of Western armies in sufficient quantities after the cold war ended.
> 
> Russians basically have put a 30mm onto everything by now, close to no Western armoured vehicles sans tanks can stand it. .50 BMG on top of those M113s is a peashooter in comparison too.
> 
> In other words, most of NATO light armour can't do anything about RU light armour, while RU light armour can destroy most NATO light armour, and unlike NATO, RU has tons of IFVs, since they make them cheap (no fancy ceramics, aluminium, modular construction, or anything)


NATO IFV have a different role than RU/Soviet IFV. 

We use our IFV as a quick response and to travel with Armor, which were used to deliver troop as soon as armor runs in, you never supposed to run NATO IFV without armor, either in a 4/4 or 8-8 (single platoon with 4 IFV and 4 Tanks or 2 platoon abreast with 8 tanks and 8 IFV) Which mean there are no point for NATO IFV to get big guns and heavy armor. 

Russian IFV are used to literally fight with Infantry, they are almost used exclusively with Infantry that may or may not have armor cover. They are design to fight standalone battle with infantry. 

As for whether or not M113 is useful, well, seeing most Ukrainian advance are focus on mobility, M113 would suit that role to a dot.


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## Easy When

Russia is trying to avoid civilian casualties, that's why so few were killed by the missile strikes. The purpose of the missile strikes is to hit infrastructure. Retaliation for the bridge bombing you could say.

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## Viet

RescueRanger said:


> Analysis: Putin has backed himself into a corner - and had no choice but to escalate​Our *security and defence editor Deborah Haynes* says Vladimir Putin had no choice but to escalate the war in Ukraine after backing himself into a corner.
> Here's the latest Haynes had on the situation...
> "The problem that Putin has is that he's backed himself into a corner. He can't back down because that would effectively mean the end of his presidency if he failed in Ukraine, given all of the fake news that he has used to support his argument for invading in the first place.
> "And yet his military is failing. It failed to take Kyiv, it failed to seize swathes of territory in the east and the south and to hold them.
> "That's now being massively challenged by Ukraine and so what options does he have left other than to escalate - and that's what we're seeing.
> "We're seeing in terms of the annexation of those four regions that he did last month, with the drafting of hundreds of thousands of Russians into the military - and now with this huge barrage of missile strikes."
> 
> 
> View attachment 886194


Putin makes Russia to a beggar. The war costs Russia 1 billion USD per day. Russia economy collapsing. Putin needs money, he sells oil, gas, coal, gold, diamonds and everything else up to 30 percent discount to China, India.


----------



## Cash GK

kingQamaR said:


> A good example was that before the identity of the killer in Norway was identified (Anders Behring Breivik), the act was labelled in the media as that of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> Yes. I think the media has a part to play. Its also a general attitude of people to believe the media outright. The western media really only gives people what they want. If people in the west were really uncomfortable with it, they would complain or watch something else, and the media would change its attitude.
> 
> Ps, don’t go out on a limb here bhai, for putim Russia , moscow has been Pakistan’s sworn enemy and Indians biggest arms provider and has blocked all Kashmiris resolutions against filthy Indians crimes in IOK


Look i do not favor Putin. I just hate duble face people. selective Justice selective humenrights Selective freedom of speech. Last week 4 Palestinian God killed but these western media mafia is still talking about Unfortunate event of a girl who got killed police custody in iran. They behaing like American police never kill people. 
Last thing we dont care what Putin is doing as they did not care when usa was doing with Muslim world.



RescueRanger said:


> Analysis: Putin has backed himself into a corner - and had no choice but to escalate​Our *security and defence editor Deborah Haynes* says Vladimir Putin had no choice but to escalate the war in Ukraine after backing himself into a corner.
> Here's the latest Haynes had on the situation...
> "The problem that Putin has is that he's backed himself into a corner. He can't back down because that would effectively mean the end of his presidency if he failed in Ukraine, given all of the fake news that he has used to support his argument for invading in the first place.
> "And yet his military is failing. It failed to take Kyiv, it failed to seize swathes of territory in the east and the south and to hold them.
> "That's now being massively challenged by Ukraine and so what options does he have left other than to escalate - and that's what we're seeing.
> "We're seeing in terms of the annexation of those four regions that he did last month, with the drafting of hundreds of thousands of Russians into the military - and now with this huge barrage of missile strikes."
> 
> 
> View attachment 886194


I know this defence.pk is under influence. Even Israeli telling us to leave this web.. man we gave hell of time to this shit. You keep puting Negative rating. We Pakistanis are realizing who are our real enemies with in us..

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## alimobin memon

Easy When said:


> Russia is trying to avoid civilian casualties, that's why so few were killed by the missile strikes. The purpose of the missile strikes is to hit infrastructure. Retaliation for the bridge bombing you could say.


Truth.


----------



## sammuel

come on :














Easy When said:


> Russia is trying to avoid civilian casualties, that's why so few were killed by the missile strikes. The purpose of the missile strikes is to hit infrastructure. Retaliation for the bridge bombing you could say.


----------



## sammuel

Russian Su-25 jet plane shot down over Kherson Oblast


VALENTYNA ROMANENKO - MONDAY, 10 OCTOBER 2022, 19:03 The anti-aircraft gunners of the Ukrainian Air Force shot down a Russian Su-25 attack jet aircraft in the skies over Kherson Oblast. Source: Public relations service of the air command Pivden (South) Quote: "On 10 October, at around 14:30, a...




news.yahoo.com

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## Cash GK

sammuel said:


> come on :


You mean gaza.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> hose Iran suicide drones are powered by primitive 2 cycle fuel motor. They are cheap, loud, they are slow, they fly deep. They aim static targets. a challenge for Ukraine air defense however not impossible to stop. Ukraine needs some rapid guns like Gepards. from military perspective they cause too little damage to turn the tide of the war.


still the problem of RCS remain . thats why we say they must fly at night


----------



## Easy When

sammuel said:


> come on :


Some missiles didn't hit their intended target, are you telling me every missile the US has fired has landed on top of an ISIS militant.

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## Hack-Hook

Easy When said:


> Some missiles didn't hit their intended target, are you telling me every missile the US has fired has landed on top of an ISIS militant.


some of them ended up in neighboring countries , people usually forget that


----------



## ziaulislam

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So Russia get a free pass?


Actually no..what we mean is let's talk about war ...not about how western wars / colonialism was blessing but this war


Cash GK said:


> You taking it very wrong my dear Israeli friend. Many Western are not bad infact they very good human. But their establecimient used media as tool to run the lies.. one side they say attack on Iraq was right what Isreal is doing it is right. What Indians are doing in Kashmir they doing right but other side they what Russia is doing it is wrong we have problem with duble standers. You have to accept both side did wrong rather with amaraicn attack on Iraq Syria. Or ireali attack on Syria Jordan Palestine or Russian attack on Ukrainen. Whey selective justice


How come Israeli occupation of international accepted boarders of three different countries is fine but Russia isn't okay.

Its a simple question that seems noone wants to answer

I mean default answer security reasons work both ways..

Ukriane wished to make Russia bored well it hasn't worked Russia is going to escalate as I said before(while people laughed saying Russia doesn't have any cruise missiles)


america..doesn't care like they didn't care in Afghanistan..as soon as the war is done they will pack and leave like they left in Afghanistan after Russian war


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579781580067057664

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> still the problem of RCS remain . thats why we say they must fly at night


What problem? The Gepard radars can detect any targets day and night within 15km radius. The double guns can acquire those drones in 3s and rapid fire within 4s. Ukraine has 30, but needs more from these weapon systems.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579743449670381569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579741984688066561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579747223503765505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579741772569137152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579676868605022208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579672659000184832

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579790449082261511

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579790901282738176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579756639225544705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579744441421922304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579744872730628097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579756324581408768

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579757339988852737


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579788075106193409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579774916836347904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579773167933214720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579772362119340032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579768583546372097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579757374621241346

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579752385857355777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579746569213337600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579747508901007366

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579793570470727682

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579793116164677632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579780954880888832

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579793162343968768


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579787752610361345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579785751835078658

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579785790946971649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579785823838666754


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579793162343968768



HIMARS is a toy compared to Iskander. 22 cm diameter compared to 92 cm diameter.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579807276205948929


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579779594252849153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579813303010103296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579801795505041415

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579742201923633157

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579807276205948929



Akatsiya is obsolete. These days they make Msta-SM2 which has automatic fire laying, battlefield management system.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579813303010103296

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579791834280513536

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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579813964036608002


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579786718831529984

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579782431343017986

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579777214501236736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579772700893286402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579766003718029313

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579785688480116739

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579786178697789442

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579765051652612096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579762731846336513


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579779464565002243

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1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579815237498572803

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579818457948119040


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579818293430349824


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579809293532266498

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579815237498572803


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579816812027338753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579766231225470977

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## serenity

US has bombed embassy in the past. Just call it an error. Either it is truly an error showing junk quality US weapons or it is intentional act of evil to kill civilians. Either way not better than Russians. And the Americans are crying about Russians being bad.

Maybe Russian weapons are junk like American ones or maybe they are nearly as evil as Americans. Maybe both, global south doesn't care.

If you find yourself angry at the Russians, go join the volunteers and fight the Russians. Do something useful rather than complain online and telling your old abuse victims why they need to hate your enemies for you.

This thread is just a collection of American bitching and anti-Russian propaganda.

I have little to no love for the Russians but honestly some people need to speak out about the ridiculous double standards.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579824285711216641

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579824285711216641




Well, NATO worries about being defeated in Ukraine, and the NATO Secretary General is saying this is a defeat that they can't accept. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579823517105020930

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579762412974379008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579793299082444800


----------



## ZeGerman

Its disgusting to see so many posters copy pasting russian propaganda cheering for civilians to be without electricity/heating/water. 

Forget about “denazification” excuse.
Or that they are supposed to be “brothers” or “fellow russians”

The facade is off

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579824569116155905


----------



## DF41

"Of the 84 Russian missiles that were launched against Ukraine, 43 were shot down. Of the 24 Russian drones, 13 were shot down. And even after that, every ten minutes I receive a notification about the downing of Iranian martyrs," Zelensky said.

Andrey Petrov:
Correction: 84 out of 43 launched missiles were shot down

Heyman101:
It's not even realistic 🤣

Andy pandy:
Lol from the comedian who was hiding in front of his green screen again.

Крле:
They shot down at least 200

Frogslig Nod:
Don’t you realize by now that doing math on globalist narratives is RACIST, you bigot?

T F:
In Ukraine everything is possible....

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## monitor

When we can give up hypocrisy world will be more beautiful to live .

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## Viet

monitor said:


> When we can give up hypocrisy world will be more beautiful to live .
> View attachment 886234


Thank you

Putin just uses your pic to bomb more Ukraine kindergartens.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579838995735154689

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## DF41



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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> What problem? The Gepard radars can detect any targets day and night within 15km radius. The double guns can acquire those drones in 3s and rapid fire within 4s. Ukraine has 30, but needs more from these weapon systems.


thats how each 10 min on telephone informed the comedian that a shahed have been shoot down?
that can detect anything is an stretch of truth


----------



## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579824285711216641


Why doesn't NATO give Ukraine the weapons to hit Russian territory directly or is this just a another managed conflict?


----------



## PakFactor

monitor said:


> When we can give up hypocrisy world will be more beautiful to live .
> View attachment 886234



This is a fact, and history itself is a witness.


----------



## MajesticPug

Viet said:


> Thank you
> 
> Putin just uses your pic to bomb more Ukraine kindergartens.


Please don't spread lies. Which kindergartens in Ukraine were bombed?

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## MajesticPug

The US doesn't owe Ukraine a damn thing. Biden and his family maybe, but not America:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579238335238721537

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## DF41

https://****/loordofwar/52167 

_***** = t dot me*_


🥁🥁🥁

🇭🇺🇷🇺🇺🇲 Peace in Ukraine is possible only on the basis of negotiations between Russia and the United States. A truce should be concluded not between Russia and Ukraine, but between the United States and the Russian Federation. Anyone who thinks that this war will be ended through Russian-Ukrainian negotiations does not live in this world. Reality looks different. (c) Orban

This is the base. The topic of negotiations with Ukraine should be removed in general so as not to look stupid, because it is absurd to discuss the topic of negotiations with an American puppet without negotiations with the United States. Only negotiations with the United States on Ukraine can have some practical meaning, but certainly not negotiations with their puppets or European satellites, which do not decide anything without the United States and do not have real military-political subjectivity.

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## Viet

MajesticPug said:


> Please don't spread lies. Which kindergartens in Ukraine were bombed?


Not only kindergartens. Russia terror attacks spare nothing. Hospitals, schools, housings, museums, universities. That’s Putin’s goal: extermination of Ukraine population. His ideology: Ukraine as people don’t exist.






Firefighters and police officers work on a site where an explosion created a crater on the street after a Russian attack in Dnipro, Ukraine, on Monday, Oct. 10, 2022. (AP Photo/Leo Correa)

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## Viet

Ah good news 

the first of 4 batteries of Iris/T air defense system arrives Ukraine.

















Ukraine receives first of four German IRIS-T air defence systems -source


Ukraine on Tuesday received the first of four IRIS-T air defence systems Germany promised to supply, a German defence ministry source said, confirming a report by Der Spiegel magazine.




www.reuters.com

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## Paul2

monitor said:


> When we can give up hypocrisy world will be more beautiful to live .
> View attachment 886234



Nobody cannot not to notice that. Besides the fact that's a world's no.2 military starting a war a walk away from EU border, it's above all a white country fighting another white county. Something the world haven't seen for quite a while. Saying that the West become desensitised seeing blown to bits coloured people on TV, is not to say anything.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ah good news
> 
> the first of 4 batteries of Iris/T air defense system arrives Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 886293
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine receives first of four German IRIS-T air defence systems -source
> 
> 
> Ukraine on Tuesday received the first of four IRIS-T air defence systems Germany promised to supply, a German defence ministry source said, confirming a report by Der Spiegel magazine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



Easy targets for Shahed-136.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Ah good news
> 
> the first of 4 batteries of Iris/T air defense system arrives Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 886293
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine receives first of four German IRIS-T air defence systems -source
> 
> 
> Ukraine on Tuesday received the first of four IRIS-T air defence systems Germany promised to supply, a German defence ministry source said, confirming a report by Der Spiegel magazine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


glorified manpads

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579879463319633920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579880623057309697


----------



## gambit

serenity said:


> US has bombed embassy in the past. Just call it an error. Either it is truly an error showing junk quality US weapons or it is intentional act of evil to kill civilians. Either way not better than Russians. And the Americans are crying about Russians being bad.
> 
> Maybe Russian weapons are junk like American ones or maybe they are nearly as evil as Americans. Maybe both, global south doesn't care.
> 
> If you find yourself angry at the Russians, go join the volunteers and fight the Russians. Do something useful rather than complain online and telling your old abuse victims why they need to hate your enemies for you.
> 
> This thread is just a collection of American bitching and anti-Russian propaganda.
> 
> I have little to no love for the Russians but honestly some people need to speak out about the ridiculous double standards.


This is a military oriented forum, so instead of the PDF Chinese complaining about US on the internet, why not you guys join the Parade Line Army (PLA) and do 'something useful'?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579854288192692224


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Easy targets for Shahed-136.


By cheap suicide drones?

Russia army sucks that’s why Putin relies on terror and suicide?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579877907136385024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579869343550427136

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

No place to hide


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579877907136385024



Pussies. Biden is afraid of backlash when American body bags start coming home.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579868243912949761


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578018332531642368

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579844887100674050


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579864994342383616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579865016282382337

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## ZeGerman

monitor said:


> When we can give up hypocrisy world will be more beautiful to live .





Viet said:


> Thank you
> 
> Putin just uses your pic to bomb more Ukraine kindergartens.


Or chechnians…or syrians…or afghanistan.

But its “ok” if non western nations do it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579883776729284610

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579879463319633920


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579883214705152000

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579893564053807104

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Ali_Baba

What use would Putin puppet Lukashenko's army be against Ukraine?


Alexander Lukashenko has announced he is deploying units to the Ukraine border and carrying out 'combat readiness' checks, hinting he may join the fighting against Kyiv.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Honestly - if Belarus joins the war - it will be a favour to Ukraine as Ukraine will walk all over Belarus and will remove the ability of Russia to use Belarus to launch strikes against Ukraine..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579879463319633920


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579877882893316096

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579862421887668225

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579850524471746560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579850530679316480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579831884204630017

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

Russian judge reported to be among victims of Crimea Bridge blast


Sergey Maslov, 42, an 'independent-minded' Russian judge who oversaw case involving the country's elite was reportedly among those killed in the Crimea Bridge attack last week.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Oh no - how inconvenient/unlucky was that.


----------



## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579862421887668225




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579865934818607104

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> glorified manpads


Bad comparison. Seeing the Ukrainian took out jets & helicopter with just stingers alone.

Imagine what the ukrainians can do with proper air defense platform.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

TB2s Mantra: We're the _Naib-i Azrail_ (Assistants to the Angel of Death). You can run from us to hide, but we'll get you at your time of _Ajl_ (appointed time).

TB2s find, point, guide and instruct to kill. Not even the best from the _Sheyatin_ amongst men and _Jinn_ can save you...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Or chechnians…or syrians…or afghanistan.
> 
> But its “ok” if non western nations do it.


They are blind on western eye. Talking about brainwashing.

A Good vid Ukraine army
They have come a long way.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> Actually no..what we mean is let's talk about war ...not about how western wars / colonialism was blessing but this war
> 
> How come Israeli occupation of international accepted boarders of three different countries is fine but Russia isn't okay.


Because the war was started by the Arabs.
According of Laws of War occupation during legal warfare can continue until a peace agreement is started. Israel can thus legally occupy things at the moment. The border with Syria is not an Internationally Accepted Border.

Russia started an illegal War of Agression.
That is a completely different situation and all their occupation is illegal, because the war is illegal.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

In before aMeRiCa ArE jUsT aS bAd! Crowd.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579849665226629121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579513923963084800


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Because the war was started by the Arabs.
> According of Laws of War occupation during legal warfare can continue until a peace agreement is started. Israel can thus legally occupy things at the moment. The border with Syria is not an Internationally Accepted Border.
> 
> Russia started an illegal War of Agression.
> That is a completely different situation and all their occupation is illegal, because the war is illegal.


Oh for F sake do not engage with them. In my times dealing with them they don't really care about Palestinian issue or human rights in general. Ask any Pakistani here what they think about the uyghur. 99% sure they just don't care.

People like them have no moral. All they care about is political scoring.

Meanwhile I been calling out Pakistan, china, vietnam, myanmar & even the US atrocious human rights violations in here anyway I can.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579785685636354048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579786178697789442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579786718831529984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579784380830339072

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

DF41 said:


> https://****/loordofwar/52167
> 
> _***** = t dot me*_
> 
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁
> 
> 🇭🇺🇷🇺🇺🇲 Peace in Ukraine is possible only on the basis of negotiations between Russia and the United States. A truce should be concluded not between Russia and Ukraine, but between the United States and the Russian Federation. Anyone who thinks that this war will be ended through Russian-Ukrainian negotiations does not live in this world. Reality looks different. (c) Orban
> 
> This is the base. The topic of negotiations with Ukraine should be removed in general so as not to look stupid, because it is absurd to discuss the topic of negotiations with an American puppet without negotiations with the United States. Only negotiations with the United States on Ukraine can have some practical meaning, but certainly not negotiations with their puppets or European satellites, which do not decide anything without the United States and do not have real military-political subjectivity.


People believe that this war will end when Ukraine has kicked out Russia from Ukraine, and Russia has kicked out the Kreml Klown.

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579785685636354048
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579786178697789442
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579786718831529984
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579784380830339072


There is more and more information that regular military personel from Russia is involved in the war in Ukraine.. Whats the difference? Tell Lavrov no one believes any russian narrative anymore, no matter how many twitter post his online army is spreading.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579872147073552384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579872149048655873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579900243415818240


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579904910573076481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579900628624896000


----------



## The SC




----------



## MeFishToo

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It can be done but it is difficult because of small size. It flies low. At low altitude, something going near the speed of sound only gives you a couple of seconds to aim before it disappears from your view.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579573455770783744





Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Yeh reminds me of a British news article how a old Ukrainian man shot down sukhoi with a shot gun lol





Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Try it yourself. Try shooting a cruise missile with a MANPADS. Let me know how it goes.





alimobin memon said:


> Wow now I know how many here in this thread are actually worth discussing this war is worth and whom with its time wasting. Manpands vs Cruise missiles. Like Topgun 2 where su57 downed by f14. in close combat.



I dont know why I even care to respond to you guys spreading BS all over, just because you dont like the fact that a russian wonder weapon was shot down by a couple of ukrainians armed with a manpad minding their own business in Ukraine.
RescueRanger posted a clip which is clear evidence they were shooting down a cruise missile and not some crappy iranian drone sounding and moving as fast as a lawn mower.
Now admit you were wrong, and Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen you go do all the things you claim russia is capable of and let me know how it goes. Until then youre back on my ignore list.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> What use would Putin puppet Lukashenko's army be against Ukraine?
> 
> 
> Alexander Lukashenko has announced he is deploying units to the Ukraine border and carrying out 'combat readiness' checks, hinting he may join the fighting against Kyiv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Honestly - if Belarus joins the war - it will be a favour to Ukraine as Ukraine will walk all over Belarus and will remove the ability of Russia to use Belarus to launch strikes against Ukraine..



Belarus won't make a different now, as I said before some page ago, if they had joined up WHEN Russian invaded back in Febuary, they may have make a different. 

There are no more than 15000 deployable troop in Belarus, even given 6 months mobilisation training, they can get around 65,000 if that was used with Russian 210,000 troop at the beginning of the war, yes, that's a serious bump. But with Russian depleted manpower they don't even have enough troop to hold a front, let alone attack into Ukraine. 

If you are looking at OS map and Satellite, Belarus has 6 Battalion deployed along Ukraine Border, Ukraine has 6 Brigade on the front, and 3 in reserve in Lviv and Kyiv. That's almost 10 times the troop Ukraine have facing Belarussian. And you need 3 to 1 advantage, not 10 to 1 disadvantage to attack. 





MeFishToo said:


> There is more and more information that regular military personel from Russia is involved in the war in Ukraine.. Whats the difference? Tell Lavrov no one believes any russian narrative anymore, no matter how many twitter post his online army is spreading.


On the other hand, would US be dumb enough to send troop if they are to do Black Op like that? Ukrainian already has been using US Missile. It would have been a lot easier to fly US Jet in Ukraine (Which is absolutely allowed by the way according to international law) and have them turn off the Transponder and fire US made missile on Russian Target? If the Transponder is off you would not know whether it was a US fighter jet or Ukrainian fighter jet unless you have visual because it will just be a blip in Russian radar.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> I dont know why I even care to respond to you guys spreading BS all over, just because you dont like the fact that a russian wonder weapon was shot down by a couple of ukrainians armed with a manpad minding their own business in Ukraine.
> RescueRanger posted a clip which is clear evidence they were shooting down a cruise missile and not some crappy iranian drone sounding and moving as fast as a lawn mower.
> Now admit you were wrong, and Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen you go do all the things you claim russia is capable of and let me know how it goes. Until then youre back on my ignore list.



Cruise missile can be shot with MANPADS. Though difficult. Let's see him try shoot Iskander with MANPADS.








jhungary said:


> Belarus won't make a different now, as I said before some page ago, if they had joined up WHEN Russian invaded back in Febuary



Russia invaded in February 2014.



jhungary said:


> Belarus won't make a different now, as I said before some page ago, if they had joined up WHEN Russian invaded back in Febuary, they may have make a different.
> 
> There are no more than 15000 deployable troop in Belarus, even given 6 months mobilisation training, they can get around 65,000 if that was used with Russian 210,000 troop at the beginning of the war, yes, that's a serious bump. But with Russian depleted manpower they don't even have enough troop to hold a front, let alone attack into Ukraine.
> 
> If you are looking at OS map and Satellite, Belarus has 6 Battalion deployed along Ukraine Border, Ukraine has 6 Brigade on the front, and 3 in reserve in Lviv and Kyiv. That's almost 10 times the troop Ukraine have facing Belarussian. And you need 3 to 1 advantage, not 10 to 1 disadvantage to attack.



Kiev is near Belarus border. Iskander from Belarus easily hits Kiev with short reaction time.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

@Oldman1 

I know it is wishful thinking, but what if Ukraine have this??


----------



## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> Belarus won't make a different now, as I said before some page ago, if they had joined up WHEN Russian invaded back in Febuary, they may have make a different.
> 
> There are no more than 15000 deployable troop in Belarus, even given 6 months mobilisation training, they can get around 65,000 if that was used with Russian 210,000 troop at the beginning of the war, yes, that's a serious bump. But with Russian depleted manpower they don't even have enough troop to hold a front, let alone attack into Ukraine.
> 
> If you are looking at OS map and Satellite, Belarus has 6 Battalion deployed along Ukraine Border, Ukraine has 6 Brigade on the front, and 3 in reserve in Lviv and Kyiv. That's almost 10 times the troop Ukraine have facing Belarussian. And you need 3 to 1 advantage, not 10 to 1 disadvantage to attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, would US be dumb enough to send troop if they are to do Black Op like that? Ukrainian already has been using US Missile. It would have been a lot easier to fly US Jet in Ukraine (Which is absolutely allowed by the way according to international law) and have them turn off the Transponder and fire US made missile on Russian Target? If the Transponder is off you would not know whether it was a US fighter jet or Ukrainian fighter jet unless you have visual because it will just be a blip in Russian radar.


The US might aswell do it. NATO is going to be directly involved in Ukraine down the road anyway. I guess passing someones red line in slow motion seems more acceptable. I honestly believe total destruction of russian forces in ukraine wouldve been a much better respons to the russian invasion than playing along with these talks about “nobody is going to win a nuclear war”. Let Putin worry about nuclear destruction. He is not crazy.


----------



## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> The US might aswell do it. NATO is going to be directly involved in Ukraine down the road anyway. I guess passing someones red line in slow motion seems more acceptable. I honestly believe total destruction of russian forces in ukraine wouldve been a much better respons to the russian invasion than playing along with these talks about “nobody is going to win a nuclear war”. Let Putin worry about nuclear destruction. He is not crazy.


Well, he wouldn't resolved to use Nuclear Weapon.

People always forget about the first rule of being a dictator

"You need to be alive to be a dictator"

And if "Nobody is going to win a nuclear war" then why Russia keep talking about it? I mean, do they want to lose? Because as they said nobody is going to win one.

On the other hand, we don't really know if US had already done that, as mentioned before, ALL NATO Air Traffic in that area has gone dark since the referendum, the US can be flying their jet in Ukraine and taking down Russian targets in Ukraine for all I know.....


----------



## Hack-Hook

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569484328064909313

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579898453404315648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579890984619737093

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579872327843844097

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579839090224422914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579829667712077825

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579916715471015937

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579723736911314946


----------



## RoadAmerica

serenity said:


> Lol yeah we don't do that. When US has disasters most countries also donate to USA idiot.
> 
> You think USA doesn't receive natural disaster assistance from others?
> 
> You sound bitter because I pointed out that the US has murdered millions of civilians in just the last 90 years. This is a fact. Saving millions?! HAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahaha..... ahahahaAHAHAHAHAHA ohhhhh dear you stupid stupid man.
> 
> USA and UK basically took slaves, stole everything from many countries, killed and took as they please and then claim to be saviors only after becoming rich off the back of others and stolen land. You are not better just because you stole in the past and did your crimes then in previous generations and now of course you're rich. And the way you use your richness is to further your ways.
> 
> So you took 100 and give back 10 and you say look how great I am for giving you something. Idiot. Go to hell. BTW America has never saved millions in Africa. American killed millions in Africa and took African slaves in large numbers. You are just desperate to look good when you are worse than even Russians. The same shit you talk down to about Russians, you are guilty of to much higher degree. There will be justice for you here on this earth and later on too. Don't worry old man, you are bound for fire. Enjoy your demise and punishment.
> 
> Calling all other countries that USA and it's old masters have invaded and stolen from, enslaved etc as shitholes (RoadAmerica's words not mine) is rich. Saying dont beg America for aid money when your money came from stealing most of India's and China's money, enslaving Africa, buying up everything using stolen money, paying for people using stolen money. Very rich lol. China and India have our separate disagreements but on this topic, UK owes nearly everything to India. Without capital injection into their colonies, those colonies could not be built up at all. It's not a hard concept to understand. We have our fights and disagreements but Global South wants the world to go from 70% owned and dominated by Europe and USA to their fair share.
> 
> No comment on Russia, that's their choices to make and their consequences to deal with. But backing and talking for USA in the context of this war is just hypocrisy to the nth degree and more. The rest are just USA trolls and fanboys suckers batting for their team because team USA means they benefit a tiny bit from USA hegemony. No surprises where and who. No human force to stop USA's divine path to devastation and destruction. It is so because nature has its balance as much as suckers like to deny. We see the evil and the prices to pay. That is all. The rest want to deny and distract.


You’ve been reported, get sad 😢 

Obviously you’re not up on current events as americas donations save millions per year, yeh but history bro history.



serenity said:


> Lol yeah we don't do that. When US has disasters most countries also donate to USA idiot.
> 
> You think USA doesn't receive natural disaster assistance from others?
> 
> You sound bitter because I pointed out that the US has murdered millions of civilians in just the last 90 years. This is a fact. Saving millions?! HAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahaha..... ahahahaAHAHAHAHAHA ohhhhh dear you stupid stupid man.
> 
> USA and UK basically took slaves, stole everything from many countries, killed and took as they please and then claim to be saviors only after becoming rich off the back of others and stolen land. You are not better just because you stole in the past and did your crimes then in previous generations and now of course you're rich. And the way you use your richness is to further your ways.
> 
> So you took 100 and give back 10 and you say look how great I am for giving you something. Idiot. Go to hell. BTW America has never saved millions in Africa. American killed millions in Africa and took African slaves in large numbers. You are just desperate to look good when you are worse than even Russians. The same shit you talk down to about Russians, you are guilty of to much higher degree. There will be justice for you here on this earth and later on too. Don't worry old man, you are bound for fire. Enjoy your demise and punishment.
> 
> Calling all other countries that USA and it's old masters have invaded and stolen from, enslaved etc as shitholes (RoadAmerica's words not mine) is rich. Saying dont beg America for aid money when your money came from stealing most of India's and China's money, enslaving Africa, buying up everything using stolen money, paying for people using stolen money. Very rich lol. China and India have our separate disagreements but on this topic, UK owes nearly everything to India. Without capital injection into their colonies, those colonies could not be built up at all. It's not a hard concept to understand. We have our fights and disagreements but Global South wants the world to go from 70% owned and dominated by Europe and USA to their fair share.
> 
> No comment on Russia, that's their choices to make and their consequences to deal with. But backing and talking for USA in the context of this war is just hypocrisy to the nth degree and more. The rest are just USA trolls and fanboys suckers batting for their team because team USA means they benefit a tiny bit from USA hegemony. No surprises where and who. No human force to stop USA's divine path to devastation and destruction. It is so because nature has its balance as much as suckers like to deny. We see the evil and the prices to pay. That is all. The rest want to deny and distract.


Yes they saved millions in Africa look it up.
Oh and the Africans started the slave trade genius.
I’m done with you


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579935298225831937

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## RoadAmerica

serenity said:


> US has bombed embassy in the past. Just call it an error. Either it is truly an error showing junk quality US weapons or it is intentional act of evil to kill civilians. Either way not better than Russians. And the Americans are crying about Russians being bad.
> 
> Maybe Russian weapons are junk like American ones or maybe they are nearly as evil as Americans. Maybe both, global south doesn't care.
> 
> If you find yourself angry at the Russians, go join the volunteers and fight the Russians. Do something useful rather than complain online and telling your old abuse victims why they need to hate your enemies for you.
> 
> This thread is just a collection of American bitching and anti-Russian propaganda.
> 
> I have little to no love for the Russians but honestly some people need to speak out about the ridiculous double standards.


Go away you’re contributing nothing to this thread


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Not about the Ukraine war but related. Finally the world is healing. No more compromise with human 💩💩💩 stain like MBS. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579846373054509058

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Not about the Ukraine war but related. Finally the world is healing. No more compromise with human 💩💩💩 stain like MBS.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579846373054509058


looking at the replays to this tweet I learned something new
Americans really do believe that the electricity for their electric car come from Solar and wind Power Plant

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> It would have been a lot easier to fly US Jet in Ukraine (Which is absolutely allowed by the way according to international law) and have them turn off the Transponder and fire US made missile on Russian Target? If the Transponder is off you would not know whether it was a US fighter jet or Ukrainian fighter jet unless you have visual because *it will just be a blip in Russian radar.*


At this point in the war, Russia would not care, I can say that with %99.999 certainty. We had the same thing back in Desert Storm when the Iraqi Air Force was effectively rendered useless. There were isolated bases that put up fighters and the F-15 guys were told that if they engage the Iraqis, all parties would be at risk from Iraqi air defense batteries because at that point, the Iraqis no longer care who get hit. Spray and pray was the Iraqi order. If an American got hit, great. But if a fellow Iraqi got hit, too bad so sad and martyrdom.

So at this point, all the US/NATO needs to do is supply the Ukrainians as much real time battlefield intel as we can.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579890396498644992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579908932403089409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579908939126558721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579879689610756096


----------



## Cash GK

Hack-Hook said:


> looking at the replays to this tweet I learned something new
> Americans really do believe that the electricity for their electric car come from Solar and wind Power Plant


It seems everyone started saying no to usa. Yesterday French Minister and today saudia....European population is getting angry on US occupation on Europ. Infact they are getting into senses that they were occupied by USA since world war2

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Hack-Hook

Cash GK said:


> It seems everyone started saying no to usa. Yesterday French Minister and today saudia....European population is getting angry on US occupation on Europ. Infact they are getting into senses that they were occupied by USA since world war2


well late is better than never.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579949186375876608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579949006784188417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579927795748474881


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> At this point in the war, Russia would not care, I can say that with %99.999 certainty. We had the same thing back in Desert Storm when the Iraqi Air Force was effectively rendered useless. There were isolated bases that put up fighters and the F-15 guys were told that if they engage the Iraqis, all parties would be at risk from Iraqi air defense batteries because at that point, the Iraqis no longer care who get hit. Spray and pray was the Iraqi order. If an American got hit, great. But if a fellow Iraqi got hit, too bad so sad and martyrdom.
> 
> So at this point, all the US/NATO needs to do is supply the Ukrainians as much real time battlefield intel as we can.


despite Russia recent shock and awe strategy still there is one way for Ukraine to win and that is to tolerate these attacks Russia stock of cruise missile and guided weapon unlike their artillery is limited .they need tolerate this phase of war and attack Russians supply lines and weapon storage for now. Russia can bring as many as it want without those supply lines it only make their work harder. but its the only way specially , soon the Russians will face the problem they had 5 month ago rain , winter cold and no supply and this time they had to provide 300,000 more
if they want to win they must be patient and try not to rush and specially try not to loose their allies by their comments and constantly asking for more to attack inside Russia , that only unite Russians


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579926668801871872

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## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> despite Russia recent shock and awe strategy still there is one way for Ukraine to win and that is to tolerate these attacks Russia stock of cruise missile and guided weapon unlike their artillery is limited .they need tolerate this phase of war and attack Russians supply lines and weapon storage for now. Russia can bring as many as it want without those supply lines it only make their work harder. but its the only way specially , soon the Russians will face the problem they had 5 month ago rain , winter cold and no supply and this time they had to provide 300,000 more
> if they want to win they must be patient and try not to rush and specially try not to loose their allies by their comments and constantly asking for more to attack inside Russia , that only unite Russians


Intersting to see if the russian soldiers are going to plunder the ukrainians in the occupied areas now Putin declared them russians.


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## Hack-Hook

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579927795748474881


when I say Russians are too soft , first they cut the electricity and fuel depot then they can't see Ukrainian force to sleep in cold and send that to warm them, they never end what they started


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hack-Hook said:


> when I say Russians are too soft , first they cut the electricity and fuel depot then they can't see Ukrainian force to sleep in cold and send that to warm them, they never end what they started



They need to missile the power plants. Iskander can hit any power plant in Ukraine from Kherson, Belarus. No power plant, no electricity. No electricity. No oil refining. No oil refining. No fuel.


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## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> Intersting to see if the russian soldiers are going to plunder the ukrainians in the occupied areas now Putin declared them russians.


depend on how Ukraine play it , but you mentioned good point Russia probably must provide for those civilian too and that made it harder. bad part for Ukraine is that probably the electricity in those area provided by nuclear power plants so they can't attack them , but in retaliation they can attack control centers in electricity grid of those areas , that also have the same effect , at least I'd have been done so


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## Cash GK

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579926668801871872


Someone please safe this world. It looks like we human race are going to its end.. is there any leader in the world who can bring them on table.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579947847579205633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579952570038382593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579953531515473922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579956043983253505


Cash GK said:


> Someone please safe this world. It looks like we human race are going to its end.. is there any leader in the world who can bring them on table.



Anglos are brutal and use nukes.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> At this point in the war, Russia would not care, I can say that with %99.999 certainty. We had the same thing back in Desert Storm when the Iraqi Air Force was effectively rendered useless. There were isolated bases that put up fighters and the F-15 guys were told that if they engage the Iraqis, all parties would be at risk from Iraqi air defense batteries because at that point, the Iraqis no longer care who get hit. Spray and pray was the Iraqi order. If an American got hit, great. But if a fellow Iraqi got hit, too bad so sad and martyrdom.
> 
> So at this point, all the US/NATO needs to do is supply the Ukrainians as much real time battlefield intel as we can.


There aren't really any point to send in NATO troop, ground troop is about training and number, Ukraine received enough NATO training to be seen as equal may even be above the average of NATO troop, which mean it have no meaning to send in American boots on the ground. They have enough troop and not short of menpower, sending more don't really help

On the other hand, what we need to do is to tell Ukraine how to fight, where to fight, conduct wargame with them, share intelligence with them, and then supply enough weapon to turn the tides, everything else Ukrainian can do it themselves, and they have been doing a pretty good job so far.


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> They have enough troop and not short of menpower, sending more don't really help



Getting more veterans with combat experience does help


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> depend on how Ukraine play it , but you mentioned good point Russia probably must provide for those civilian too and that made it harder. bad part for Ukraine is that probably the electricity in those area provided by nuclear power plants so they can't attack them , but in retaliation they can attack control centers in electricity grid of those areas , that also have the same effect , at least I'd have been done so


Again, Electricity playbook has not been used since 1970. 

Case in point, the "Heavy Missile strike" on Ukraine 2 days ago have brought power down for Ukrainian, for exactly 14 hours according to my friend who live in Kyiv. 

It changes nothing on ground, in fact, they took 3 more village and press closer to Svatove on the ground to now within 13 km (It was 20 km before). I mean, if you want to waste your precious ammo and drone on civilian infrastructure, that's up to you, but that's how people lose war. And Ukraine will gladly for you to bomb civilian power station or distribution hub.



Paul2 said:


> Getting more veterans with combat experience does help


The thing is, Ukraine did have a lot of vet with combat experience. 

In Ukraine, you are put into reserve for 4 years after you served 2 years in Donbas, which was an active warzone before Feb 2022. And that lasted for 8 years, and then the conventional campaign back in 2014 lasted for 6 months. 

In a way, Ukrainian military probably have more experience on how to fight a conventional war than any of the NATO military combine, because NATO had not seen 1 since 1970 (Or 1982 if you are British). It's one thing to fight in Afghanistan and playing whack-a-mole hunt, another to fight toe to toe with some country in a set piece.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> The thing is, Ukraine did have a lot of vet with combat experience.



What I mean... getting more vets for NATO, and exactly for reasons you mentioned


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579953958600470528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579956712215568386

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579954527121600512


Paul2 said:


> What I mean... getting more vets for NATO, and exactly for reasons you mentioned



NATO men are cowards.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> What I mean... getting more vets for NATO, and exactly for reasons aforementioned


Well, that depends. 

If the experience are solely what you are looking at, yes, but at command level (You are talking about NATO command authorise NATO boot on the ground, not individual soldier or even country sent the troop to Ukraine) Then no. 

NATO command would want to have maximum their skill set at a wide board of issue, it means unless you are sending the entire NATO task force, which NATO operate as a group to Ukraine, that's the only way NATO command would have gain experience from. Otherwise, what NATO would gain from is to how to fight a war in Ukraine using Ukrainian equipment and resource, and NATO will NEVER fight a war with Ukrainian equipment and resource. 

For NATO command, the exact thing they wanted is what they are doing now, have a NATO compatible troop using NATO equipment to fight a Third Country adversary. Because that would be able to test their doctrine and training, which is what NATO command would be looking for. Which mean sending NATO troop on the ground is redundant because Ukrainian, for all intend and purposes, are NATO troop.

On the other hand, if you are talking about individual level, as in individual who never been to a conventional war want to see how it looks like, then yes, that would have been a Unique experience, in fact, if I was 10 years younger, I would probably would already there fighting.

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## jhungary



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## Reashot Xigwin

Russia is essentially fukked. They only thing they can do is lob missiles at ukrainians and hope they call it quit. 

LOL can't wait for the baby rapists apologists here to take a massive L when Ukraine win the war & take back Crimea.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1
> 
> I know it is wishful thinking, but what if Ukraine have this??


Any 8x8s that can be provided besides that Stryker with the 105 gun? Or maybe Marine Corp's LAVs? Don't know if we have any in storage of old LAVs or something similar.



jhungary said:


> Think the Dutch, the Dane, Spanish, Portugese, Australian, and American already gave them 400 M113 to Ukraine. IIRC. That's probably enough for now. That's like 3 division worth of M113...I mean even Australia and Canada do not have that number in service...


I know we are replacing the M113s with the new model I believe it is already in production. Israel who may not provide weaponry have thousands of M113s with upgraded armor which are being replace with Namers.


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## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> despite Russia recent shock and awe strategy still there is one way for Ukraine to win and that is to tolerate these attacks Russia stock of cruise missile and guided weapon unlike their artillery is limited .they need tolerate this phase of war and attack Russians supply lines and weapon storage for now. Russia can bring as many as it want without those supply lines it only make their work harder. but its the only way specially , soon the Russians will face the problem they had 5 month ago rain , winter cold and no supply and this time they had to provide 300,000 more
> if they want to win they must be patient and try not to rush and specially try not to loose their allies by their comments and constantly asking for more to attack inside Russia , that only unite Russians


There are mobilize reservists already on the frontlines and are getting killed or captured after just being on the frontlines for few days or weeks. Not even being trained enough or troops being disorganized and just milling around. Not to mention as you said not being well equipped.


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## 925boy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579877907136385024
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579869343550427136


But Mr @jhungary has been on this thread this whole time telling us that "US/NATO isnt involved in this war" - well if they're not involved then how can Ukraine losing be a loss for NATO/US?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579975625166970880

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## Oldman1

925boy said:


> But Mr @jhungary has been on this thread this whole time telling us that "US/NATO isnt involved in this war" - well if they're not involved then how can Ukraine losing be a loss for NATO/US?


Because Russia would be next door to NATO like Poland along with Belarus next to the Baltics. Their next target.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579972635869728769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579961699343663105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579762750305492993

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## 925boy

Oldman1 said:


> There are mobilize reservists already on the frontlines and are getting killed or captured after just being on the frontlines for few days or weeks.


but Ukranians are dying also on the frontlines, AT THE SAME or higher rate than Russian casaulties, so why arent you asking Ukraine not to send those soldiers there? Russian artillery MOWED DOWN soo many Ukranian soldiers during the attack on Kharkiv and Kherson, its not even funny, Ukraine lost low to mid xx,xxx of troops easily in those stupid pushes that didnt b ring much territoryt gfain and evaporated Ukraine's best soldiers...now just wait for those 300K+ soldiers arriving in Ukraine gradually due to mobilization.

NATO LOGIC- "we lost in Afghanistan, but that doesnt mean we cant win against RUssia in Ukraine".
lmaooo


Oldman1 said:


> Not even being trained enough or troops being disorganized and just milling around.


how do you know that? you also dont know their strategy- they will probably hold the rear bases and territories, to free up bettter troops to go on the attack and take more Ukranian territory. dont speak on what you have no or poor knowledge about , for real.


Oldman1 said:


> Not to mention as you said not being well equipped.


and NATO's bich asz still cant move in and fight them? then i guess equipment doesnt matter then!

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## jhungary

925boy said:


> But Mr @jhungary has been on this thread this whole time telling us that "US/NATO isnt involved in this war" - well if they're not involved then how can Ukraine losing be a loss for NATO/US?


Are you seriously that dumb not to figure out Jens Stoltenberg meant the People of the Freeworld, or "the West" collectively. Not all the country in the west are US and NATO, hell, not all of Europe are NATO. 

Please don't tell me you are this dumb, because at least I use to think you are at least normal.

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## 925boy

Ali_Baba said:


> What use would Putin puppet Lukashenko's army be against Ukraine?
> 
> 
> Alexander Lukashenko has announced he is deploying units to the Ukraine border and carrying out 'combat readiness' checks, hinting he may join the fighting against Kyiv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Honestly - if Belarus joins the war - it will be a favour to Ukraine as Ukraine will walk all over Belarus and will remove the ability of Russia to use Belarus to launch strikes against Ukraine..


so can i understand your point right here : - are you saying that Ukraine that couldnt take out Crimea bridge in all actuality can take out BElarus? ha ha ha ......i have a serious quewstion - why are NATO troops afraid to enter Belarus? i can sense their apprehension.


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## 925boy

jhungary said:


> Are you seriously that dumb not to figure out Jens Stoltenberg meant the People of the Freeworld, or "the West" collectively.


wait, are you seriously this dumb to call this comment by the head of NATO, a military alliance, "speaking for the freeworld"?
This is indirect admission that NATO is in war with RUssia- we all know it on PDF< except you.



jhungary said:


> Not all the country in the west are US and NATO, hell, not all of Europe are NATO.


stupid semantics by a low IQ fake professor like you - stop ducking - you know we are talking ABOUT NATO HERE_ the entity whose interests the Ukraine war serves- getting its next "client".
what about those biolabs bro? any deets on them?


jhungary said:


> Please don't tell me you are this dumb, because at least I use to think you are at least normal.


you look dumb avoiding my question - me: 1, you 0.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Any 8x8s that can be provided besides that Stryker with the 105 gun? Or maybe Marine Corp's LAVs? Don't know if we have any in storage of old LAVs or something similar.



We don't have much LAV, Canadian have a lot, because they just upgraded their LAV 3 to Gen 4 Lav 6. Think they donated or donating 39 LAV 6 to Ukraine once the new one rolled off the production line. 

Canadian have around 600 LAV III and their plan is to acquire 360 LAV 6. And probably a few has been in service as it was back in 2015, so I would think Canada should have a few LAV III in storage.

On the other hand, we have a few hundred MGS that was pulled from service this year and probably a few hundred Stryker in storage or currently at the hand of Army National Guard, if US want to lend lease those, I think it could be done


Oldman1 said:


> I know we are replacing the M113s with the new model I believe it is already in production. Israel who may not provide weaponry have thousands of M113s with upgraded armor which are being replace with Namers.


Ukraine already have some AIFV from Netherland, they didn't say how many the Dutch gave them, but it should be in hundred. 

Beside Israel, Turkey also have a lot of upgraded M113, but I don't think turks would have transfer those to Ukraine.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Bomb the power plants cuts off oil refinery which runs on electricity. No fuel. Tanks cannot move.

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## jhungary

925boy said:


> wait, are you seriously this dumb to call this comment by the head of NATO, a military alliance, "speaking for the freeworld"?
> This is indirect admission that NATO is in war with RUssia- we all know it on PDF< except you.



So when UN secretary-general said anything, then does that mean it is officially UN Sanction or in any capacity on UN? Then should UN Condemn Russia annexation because Guterrez said this









Ukraine: UN Secretary-General condemns Russia annexation plan


Russia’s plan to annex four occupied regions in Ukraine would be an illegal move, a violation of international law, and should be condemned, UN Secretary-General António Guterres said on Thursday, warning of a “dangerous escalation” in the seven-month war.




news.un.org





Or how about this tweet from the man himself??


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575525551552569344
Or Did I miss the UN resolution somewhere??

I mean, if you are so dumb and cannot think the chief of an organisation cannot say anything that is not sanctioned by that organisation, then I can't help you man.

And pothead, I have already said numerous times, NATO is essentially at war with Russia by the means of sending weapon to Ukraine and organise Troop training to Ukrainian soldier. If you don't know that, that I cannot help you.




925boy said:


> stupid semantics by a low IQ fake professor like you - stop ducking - you know we are talking ABOUT NATO HERE_ the entity whose interests the Ukraine war serves- getting its next "client".
> what about those biolabs bro? any deets on them?



What Bio Lab? Even WHO said there were no biological program in those Bio Lab in Ukraine

And yes, that is from the official position of UN









No sign of Ukraine bioweapons labs says disarmament chief, after further Russian claims


The UN is not aware of any biological weapons programme being conducted in Ukraine, the Organization’s disarmament chief told the Security Council once more on Friday, responding to fresh allegations by the Russian Federation, that it had evidence to the contrary.




news.un.org





And lol, but seeing that's you, well, I figure you would felt for those crack story. Do carry on though, because I need my daily laugh



925boy said:


> you look dumb avoiding my question - me: 1, you 0.



lol, who's keeping score now? If it was me, even if I give you the win, it's me 2 you 1. Don't forget who is the idiot that said the money (And not all those money was from NATO for Pete's sake) when all the post I was referred to was weapon transfer? And then who is the idiot who think Mexico had not attacked the US back in 1800s?

Or somehow those don't count? Or you are simply too senile to remember those LOL

Do you want me to quote back what you said??


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## Cash GK

jhungary said:


> Again, Electricity playbook has not been used since 1970.
> 
> Case in point, the "Heavy Missile strike" on Ukraine 2 days ago have brought power down for Ukrainian, for exactly 14 hours according to my friend who live in Kyiv.
> 
> It changes nothing on ground, in fact, they took 3 more village and press closer to Svatove on the ground to now within 13 km (It was 20 km before). I mean, if you want to waste your precious ammo and drone on civilian infrastructure, that's up to you, but that's how people lose war. And Ukraine will gladly for you to bomb civilian power station or distribution hub.
> 
> 
> The thing is, Ukraine did have a lot of vet with combat experience.
> 
> In Ukraine, you are put into reserve for 4 years after you served 2 years in Donbas, which was an active warzone before Feb 2022. And that lasted for 8 years, and then the conventional campaign back in 2014 lasted for 6 months.
> 
> In a way, Ukrainian military probably have more experience on how to fight a conventional war than any of the NATO military combine, because NATO had not seen 1 since 1970 (Or 1982 if you are British). It's one thing to fight in Afghanistan and playing whack-a-mole hunt, another to fight toe to toe with some country in a set piece.


Nato fought 4 wars in last 20 years Iraq Syria lybia Afghanistan. How you say they dont have experience to fight a war.. I agree to you on one point when its comes man to man war they do hit n run Practice. But when it comes to proxies war they have good experience

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## jhungary

Cash GK said:


> Nato fought 4 wars in last 20 years Iraq Syria lybia Afghanistan. How you say they dont have experience to fight a war..


Se Sabe que es "Conventional War"?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-34 attack jet carrying a missile and a jamming pod


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## Cash GK

jhungary said:


> Se Sabe que es "Conventional War"?


recuerda mis palabras, no lucharán en la guerra convencional. no enviarán a sus hijos a que los maten en una guerra que no es de ellos. se están asegurando de sangrar a Rusia. a ellos no les importa Ucrania ... si todavía crees que enviarán a sus hijos a la guerra por los ortodoxos ucranianos, entonces estás viviendo en el cielo de los tontos.

mark my words they will not fight conventional war. they will not send their sons to get killed in war which is not theirs. they are making sure to bleed Russia. they dont care about Ukraine.. if you still believe they going to send their sons in war for Ukrainian Orthodox then you are living in fools heaven

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Cash GK said:


> mark my words they will not fight conventional war. they will not send their sons to get killed in war which is not theirs. they are making sure to bleed Russia. they dont care about Ukraine.. if you still believe they going to send their sons in war for Ukrainian Orthodox then you are living in fools heaven



Exactly. Who fights war. Who loses election. NATO will not fight unless NATO is attacked.


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## khansaheeb

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Exactly. Who fights war. Who loses election. NATO will not fight unless NATO is attacked.


NATO is already proxy fighting and Russia feels the pain.


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## jhungary

Cash GK said:


> recuerda mis palabras, no lucharán en la guerra convencional. no enviarán a sus hijos a que los maten en una guerra que no es de ellos. se están asegurando de sangrar a Rusia. a ellos no les importa Ucrania ... si todavía crees que enviarán a sus hijos a la guerra por los ortodoxos ucranianos, entonces estás viviendo en el cielo de los tontos.
> 
> mark my words they will not fight conventional war. they will not send their sons to get killed in war which is not theirs. they are making sure to bleed Russia. they dont care about Ukraine.. if you still believe they going to send their sons in war for Ukrainian Orthodox then you are living in fools heaven


Se la guerra convencional ya, es una guerra lucho por Ukraine.

Para a mis palabra, no habra NATO fuerza en Ukraine. No necceito alli


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## 925boy

khansaheeb said:


> NATO is already proxy fighting and Russia feels the pain.


but without ground troops to hold ground, you lose the war, so has NATO learned that lesson- even in Syria, NATO doesnt have much territory or freedom to operatte..but they fired 52 Tomahawks into Syria under Trump...in the long term, war is won by who holds ground more permanently using troops/ground forces- thats why NATO has lost every recent war, its so pathetic- they have all the reasons to win, but they always lose.

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## Cash GK

jhungary said:


> Se la guerra convencional ya, es una guerra lucho por Ukraine.
> 
> Para a mis palabra, no habra NATO fuerza en Ukraine. No necceito alli


they are bluffing if they take Ukraine In nato. it is bluff with ukraine to keep them fighting.. the day they take Ukrainen in nato i will buy you lunch. You don't know what rift nato countries have with in its members states .Do you think pols or france or Germans will send their kids in war for Ukrainian. As you know they not fool to take ukrain in nato. As Ukraine is under attack. To taking Ukraine in nato which is under attack. It will be start 9f world war Are you getting my point... in Worse case if if if . There is very big if they take Ukrain in nato which has only 0.00 chance then welcome to world War 3 and many of us will not be here writing idiotic stuff. Around 5 billions human will die..


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## jhungary

Cash GK said:


> they are bluffing if they take Ukraine In nato. it is bluff with ukraine to keep them fighting.. the day they take Ukrainen in nato i will buy you lunch. You don't know what rift nato countries have with in its members states .Do you think pols or france or Germans will send their kids in war for Ukrainian. As you know they not fool to take ukrain in nato. As Ukraine is under attack. To taking Ukraine in nato which is under attack. It will be start 9f world war Are you getting my point... in Worse case if if if . There is very big if they take Ukrain in nato which has only 0.00 chance then welcome to world War 3 and many of us will not be here writing idiotic stuff. Around 5 billions human will die..


Dude, that's not what I said at all......


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## Cash GK

925boy said:


> but without ground troops to hold ground, you lose the war, so has NATO learned that lesson- even in Syria, NATO doesnt have much territory or freedom to operatte..but they fired 52 Tomahawks into Syria under Trump...in the long term, war is won by who holds ground more permanently using troops/ground forces- thats why NATO has lost every recent war, its so pathetic- they have all the reasons to win, but they always lose.


Your infrastructure is important Ukraine was built in 300 years. Syria has the history of1000z years which is gone and destroyed. This is the fate for Ukrainen. Their history their generations their infrastructure will be fucked up. They need 800 billions dollars to rebuild their country. They don't have that money. Western weapons industry is main investor in this war. They not going to give them money to built their country. The money they taking from europ n usa it will take 100 of years topay off those loans. It will take generations to pay off those loans which they took in last 7 months
Why you guys think war is just pubg game. Real world every single bolt cost money. Comon guys...


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## ziaulislam

Cash GK said:


> they are bluffing if they take Ukraine In nato. it is bluff with ukraine to keep them fighting.. the day they take Ukrainen in nato i will buy you lunch. You don't know what rift nato countries have with in its members states .Do you think pols or france or Germans will send their kids in war for Ukrainian. As you know they not fool to take ukrain in nato. As Ukraine is under attack. To taking Ukraine in nato which is under attack. It will be start 9f world war Are you getting my point... in Worse case if if if . There is very big if they take Ukrain in nato which has only 0.00 chance then welcome to world War 3 and many of us will not be here writing idiotic stuff. Around 5 billions human will die..


Game play is simple
Weaken Russia use ukriane as guinea pig.

Once war is over ukriane will be abandoned like all previous guinea pigs.

Ukriane can't win this war.. it's going to loose why? Because Russia will escalate



Cash GK said:


> Your infrastructure is important Ukraine was built in 300 years. Syria has the history of1000z years which is gone and destroyed. This is the fate for Ukrainen. Their history their generations their infrastructure will be fucked up. They need 800 billions dollars to rebuild their country. They don't have that money. Western weapons industry is main investor in this war. They not going to give them money to built their country. The money they taking from europ n usa it willntake 100 of years topay of that loans. It will take generations to pay off these loans which they took in last 7 months
> Why you guys think war is just pubg game. Comon guys...


Lol. USA won't even give a Penny it's promises are just to keep ukriane busy in hurting the bear..it is using ukrianians as cannon fodder

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> NATO is already proxy fighting and Russia feels the pain.



Perhaps. But eventually Russia annexes all of Ukraine because 4 times the population which means Russia can sacrifice 30 million people but Ukraine cannot. Then NATO will face a more powerful Russia after Russia annexes all of Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580031772167143424

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## sutton999

Ukriane under grooming to be next Israel, young woman and children are leaving, by the time current population becomes much older, massive Jewish immigration will make Ukraine new homeland for Jews.


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## Cash GK

ziaulislam said:


> Game play is simple
> Weaken Russia use ukriane as guinea pig.
> 
> Once war is over ukriane will be abandoned like all previous guinea pigs.
> 
> Ukriane can't win this war.. it's going to loose why? Because Russia will escalate
> 
> 
> Lol. USA won't even give a Penny it's promises are just to keep ukriane busy in hurting the bear..it is using ukrianians as cannon fodder


This was first plan. Israelis and amaraicns wanted to take revenge from Russia after what Russia did with them in Syria. 90 percent urkrains are Orthodox and they are close to russian and Greeks Christians and ukrianian president is jew. Westren Establishment is Catholic. Do you understand my point...



sutton999 said:


> Ukriane under grooming to be next Israel, young woman and children are leaving, by the time current population becomes much older, massive Jewish immigration will make Ukraine new homeland for Jews.


You took my words man

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## ziaulislam

Cash GK said:


> This was first plan. Israelis and amaraicns wanted to take revenge from Russia after what Russia did with them in Syria. 90 percent urkrains are Orthodox and they are close to russian and Greeks Christians and ukrianians president is jew. Westren Establishment is Catholic. Do you understand my point...


Ingenious plan..
Russia first didn't want to bomb cities but ultimately it's going to come to that..they will bomb ukriane into oblivion just like Syria. Remember rebels were winning first untill Russia said **** it...

We saw the first signs the other day

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## sammuel

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Anglos are butchers. Anglos butchered millions of native Americans, Australians, New Zealanders.



Enough with the shallow ,inclusive , racist , off topic and plain stupid remarks.

Reported for all of the above and for for lowering the level of discussion.

~

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> There aren't really any point to send in NATO troop, ground troop is about training and number, Ukraine received enough NATO training to be seen as equal may even be above the average of NATO troop, which mean it have no meaning to send in American boots on the ground. They have enough troop and not short of menpower, sending more don't really help
> 
> On the other hand, what we need to do is to tell Ukraine how to fight, where to fight, conduct wargame with them, share intelligence with them, and then supply enough weapon to turn the tides, everything else Ukrainian can do it themselves, and they have been doing a pretty good job so far.


I believe Poutine no longer care about fratricide. Or he is approaching that point of no return. He must know that nuclear blackmail will not work and neither would a nuclear bluff. No capital city will be considered safe if Kyiv is reduced to nuclear rubble. Poutine must know that. So either the Ukrainians make a serious mistake, or Poutine will order an operation that will risk the lives of his troops in wasteful fashion.


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## Han Patriot

ziaulislam said:


> Ingenious plan..
> Russia first didn't want to bomb cities but ultimately it's going to come to that..they will bomb ukriane into oblivion just like Syria. Remember rebels were winning first untill Russia said **** it...
> 
> We saw the first signs the other day


The Russians had been too humane since they still consider Ukrainians as brothers. We must never do the same mistake with Taiwan, go full force and destroy any resistance. Repopulate the island with patriots, these wanwans had been brainwashed for too long. They now fcking think they are a different race.

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## Cash GK

ziaulislam said:


> Ingenious plan..
> Russia first didn't want to bomb cities but ultimately it's going to come to that..they will bomb ukriane into oblivion just like Syria. Remember rebels were winning first untill Russia said **** it...
> 
> We saw the first signs the other day


Russian did not understand first. They were mistaken sending their jets to fall against western techs. Now they taking same style what iranan did against American in Iraq n Syria.. this new plan going to work well as this will reduce their deaths. This way they can fight for next 5 years. In previous plan Ukraine was becoming Afghanistan for them. Now they can fire their missils from mainland and hurt western gains. Russian received heavy deaths in first plan. Second face will be much safer for them but more deadly for western friends.

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## gambit

sammuel said:


> Enough with the shallow ,inclusive , racist , off topic and plain stupid remarks.
> 
> Reported all of the above and for for lowering the level of discussion.
> 
> ~


The going rate is 5c/post and 10c/thread. Since he cannot contribute intellectually, how else do you expect him to make a living?

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## Cash GK

gambit said:


> I believe Poutine no longer care about fratricide. Or he is approaching that point of no return. He must know that nuclear blackmail will not work and neither would a nuclear bluff. No capital city will be considered safe if Kyiv is reduced to nuclear rubble. Poutine must know that. So either the Ukrainians make a serious mistake, or Poutine will order an operation that will risk the lives of his troops in wasteful fashion.


Remember what amaraicn Secretary of State said On Cuban missile crisis. We were eye bol to eye bol and i think our adversary judt blink the eyes. But Putin is deferent man then his elders. Man has iron will



gambit said:


> The going rate is 5c/post and 10c/thread. Since he cannot contribute intellectually, how else do you expect him to make a living?


You Discuss every possibility. Why you shyaway. When you guys took full advantage of suni shia in your occupied lands. Truth hurts budy

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## Cash GK

Han Patriot said:


> The Russians had been too humane since they still consider Ukrainians as brothers. We must never do the same mistake with Taiwan, go full force and destroy any resistance. Repopulate the island with patriots, these wanwans had been brainwashed for too long. They now fcking think they are a different race.


Devide and rul term coin by our best friend UK 😆


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## gambit

Han Patriot said:


> The Russians had been too humane since they still consider Ukrainians as brothers. We must never do the same mistake with Taiwan, go full force and destroy any resistance. Repopulate the island with patriots, these wanwans had been brainwashed for too long. They now fcking think they are a different race.


Too humane? Now it looks like too incapable. I analogized the Russian military to that of a mechanic whose skills consists of only oil change or scrap the motor, and nothing in the middle. Poutine tried the conventional path and is failing, that leave the nuclear option or like I said -- scrap the motor. It seems like the Russian military does not know how to do anything in-between. So for Taiwan, given there is a large body of water which is more difficult than land to traverse, the Parade Line Army (PLA) is having second thoughts.

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## Cash GK

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Perhaps. But eventually Russia annexes all of Ukraine because 4 times the population which means Russia can sacrifice 30 million people but Ukraine cannot. Then NATO will face a more powerful Russia after Russia annexes all of Ukraine.


I do not support this Russian action as they do not have the right to take someone els land. As they are biggest country on planet they dont need ukrianian land . I think they are there only to teach our western friends that russia is not Syria libiya or Afghanistan. Russia is big country and they retaliate when they retaliate It brings destruction for human lives economy and social behaviors in whol world not Russians or Ukraine. It hurts everyone. I hope they setback and fix this issue and safe this world. But i doubt


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## Cash GK

gambit said:


> Too humane? Now it looks like too incapable. I analogized the Russian military to that of a mechanic whose skills consists of only oil change or scrap the motor, and nothing in the middle. Poutine tried the conventional path and is failing, that leave the nuclear option or like I said -- scrap the motor. It seems like the Russian military does not know how to do anything in-between. So for Taiwan, given there is a large body of water which is more difficult than land to traverse, the Parade Line Army (PLA) is having second thoughts.


What do you think of amaraicn army skills what kind of skill they shown in Afghanistan. Remember when they were running out of kabul airport. When they bomb a car carring kids to airport. Look budy in war poor man's kids die to make rich man richey. War is best business. There is no batter business then war. Even drug comes second and politics comes third. They run by big corporations.

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## DF41

Cash GK said:


> Someone please safe this world. It looks like we human race are going to its end.. is there any leader in the world who can bring them on table.


Enough of Murica and NATO doing regime changes to suit their dirty purposes.

* TIME FOR THE WORLD TO DO REGIME CHANGE ON MURICA AND NATO AND HANG ALL THOSE TRAITORS TO MANKIND FROM THERE*

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## Viet

A.P. Richelieu said:


> People believe that this war will end when Ukraine has kicked out Russia from Ukraine, and Russia has kicked out the Kreml Klown.


This war can be over tomorrow if Russia withdraws and Putin is jailed in a Siberia gulag.

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## Cash GK

Viet said:


> This war can be over tomorrow if Russia withdraws and Putin is jailed in a Siberia gulag.


Will you jail bush and toni Blair for attacking iraq with out any reason. You guys are funny lol i think morally our western leaders are standing very low as per their previous wrong doings and now it is bitting them back. What ashame you guys can not ask someone even for moral support. This is sad

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> This war can be over tomorrow if Russia withdraws and Putin is jailed in a Siberia gulag.



Too late for that. Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Crimea were annexed. This is to the last man standing.

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## Cash GK

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Too late for that. Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Crimea were annexed. This is to the last man standing.


Now I realize why you got- ratings lol


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> This war can be over tomorrow if Russia withdraws and Putin is jailed in a Siberia gulag.


Well, technically, this war will only end once Ukraine is in NATO.

Even if Russia was kicked out, they will be back, this is not something Putin or whoever succeed Putin can just digest and be over with, either Ukraine destroy the full combat capability of Russia or Russia cannot attack Ukraine, this war will keep going in a High-Low-High Intensity conflict.

What Ukraine need is a binding security guarantee. Otherwise, it won't change, Russia will just come back in 8 or 10 years. Peace under a gun is not peace at all.

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Too late for that. Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Crimea were annexed. This is to the last man standing.



Maybe you should join your comrades on the front line. They need the help.

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## Viet

Switchblade kamikaze drone production to ramp up following Ukraine use​By Stephen Losey
Oct 11 at 08:10 PM





Lance Cpl. Isiah Enriquez, a rifleman with 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Division, launches a Switchblade 300 loitering munition during a training exercise at Camp Lejeune, N.C., July 7, 2021. Switchblade manufacturer 
AeroVironment is working on tripling the production of the heavier-duty Switchblade 600, so it can send more to Ukraine. (Pfc. Sarah Pysher/Marine Corps

Ukraine has had repeated battlefield successes with the Switchblade 300 since the United States shipped it 400 of the lighter-weight loitering munition earlier this year, Charlie Dean, AeroVironment’s vice president of sales and business development, said in an interview with Defense News at the Association of the U.S. Army’s conference on Monday.

And with the larger, more powerful Switchblade 600 on its way to Ukraine — Dean said the first batch of 10 would likely be in the country in the next few weeks — and growing visibility and interest in the weapon, AeroVironment is making preparations to produce more.

Dean said Ukraine has “considerable interest” in getting and using the Switchblade 600. Today, AeroVironment can produce more than 2,000 Switchblade 600 systems annually; within a few months, he said, the company hopes to roughly triple that to about 6,000.

To do that, he added, the company is working to obtain more supplies to build the 600 version as well as adding new lines dedicated to the heavier-duty loitering munition.





AeroVironment showed off several systems in use by Ukraine, including the Switchblade 300, during the 2022 AUSA conference. (Stephen Losey/Staff) 

Switchblade loitering munitions are essentially a combination of a reconnaissance drone and guided missile.

The smaller Switchblade 300 is small enough that a soldier can carry several in a backpack, set up its launching tube within a few minutes, and fire it off, with its folded wings snapping out like its namesake knife.

The soldier would then fly the 5.5-pound Switchblade 300 up to 10 kilometers, or about 6 miles, sweeping the area with the munition’s camera and looking for a target.

Once the target is spotted, Dean said, the Switchblade can loiter while the operator figures out the best spot to strike. Switchblade operators can even fine-tune the angle of attack to cause the most amount of damage, he added.

So far, he said, Switchblade 300s have been used to take out “soft-skin” Russian targets — fuel trucks, personnel carriers, machine gun nests, trench positions and dismounted infantry.

But when the Switchblade 600 hits the battlefield, Dean said, it could prove to be an even more devastating weapon — a “tank-killer” with a warhead as powerful as the Javelin, but controllable and able to travel a much greater range.

The Pentagon last month awarded AeroVironment a $2.2 million contract for 10 Switchblade 600s earmarked for Ukraine, and more are expected to follow. Switchblade 600s weigh 120 pounds and can fly up to 90 kilometers, Dean said.





The first 10 heavier-duty Switchblade 600s, which can strike tanks or other armored targets, are also expected to be in Ukraine soon. (Stephen Losey/Staff) 

And because Switchblades are precision weapons, Dean said, it’s more likely Ukraine would only need one shot to hit its intended target instead of several rounds, as an artillery fight might require.

The increased visibility from the Ukraine war — videos of the weapons in action regularly pop up on social media and have been publicized by Ukraine’s government — has driven more interest from other countries. France in June announced its plan to quickly buy Switchblades to plug a capability gap in its Army. Dean said other nations have expressed interest as well, though he declined to identify them.

Before the war started, as Russian threats against Ukraine increased, Dean said, AeroVironment set up a team within its company to consider ways to help Ukraine.

It was a personal mission for the firm’s chief executive, Wahid Nawabi, said Dean. Nawabi grew up in Afghanistan and fled with family members after the Soviet Union invaded, Dean added.

“We are very focused on helping Ukraine achieve victory,” Dean said.

About Stephen Losey
Stephen Losey is the air warfare reporter for Defense News. He previously covered leadership and personnel issues at Air Force Times, and the Pentagon, special operations and air warfare at Military.com. He has traveled to the Middle East to cover U.S. Air Force operations.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Maybe you should join your comrades on the front line. They need the help.



Why should I? It's not my country. I'm Chinese living in Canada. Besides, Russians are not short on man power. Russia has 151 million people. Ukraine has 36 million people. That's enough man power advantage.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, technically, this war will only end once Ukraine is in NATO.
> 
> Even if Russia was kicked out, they will be back, this is not something Putin or whoever succeed Putin can just digest and be over with, either Ukraine destroy the full combat capability of Russia or Russia cannot attack Ukraine, this war will keep going in a High-Low-High Intensity conflict.
> 
> What Ukraine need is a binding security guarantee. Otherwise, it won't change, Russia will just come back in 8 or 10 years. Peace under a gun is not peace at all.


Ukraine certainly needs security otherwise Putin, hooligans and rapists will return. Nobody will ever trust the words coming from their mouths.
Russia reminds me much of a stalker. A man stalks his ex wife after divorce. The man can’t move on, he becomes aggressive, violent because his ex wife finds a new relationship with a new man (Nato).

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Why should I? It's not my country. I'm Chinese living in Canada. Besides, Russians are not short on man power. Russia has 151 million people. Ukraine has 36 million people. That's enough man power advantage.



Because you have no spine and don't care about anyone else but yourself. Grow a set and don't let tyranny rule! Why do you think every straight thinking rational Russian has left Russia??

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579831797260566529

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579831797260566529



Whoa. Drones are the future of warfare. Look this.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579865934818607104




They're using candles now.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579970943166087168

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## serenity

gambit said:


> This is a military oriented forum, so instead of the PDF Chinese complaining about US on the internet, why not you guys join the Parade Line Army (PLA) and do 'something useful'?



No I'm only commenting on how much you Americans complain about Russia despite being worse than they are. Go take care of Russia instead of complaining on this forum. Do something useful and fight the Russians to stop their war of aggression rather than complaining.

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## Paul2

The last 5 pages of the thread is a pure mental retardation.

Ukraine ceases its existence, even if it wins? WTF, It's Russia which has a quite solid chances to fall apart.

Russia is a Yugoslavia on steroids, much, much worse.

It's quite realistic now that Ukraine be chopping off a good part of southern russia now.

Why I see the West being ok with Russia falling apart? It's by far the easiest way to deny them a UN seat with a straight face, and US can keep the security council without a reform.

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## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> He does not know who was father of algorithm. Without algorithm his laptop can not work. Tell him Who was father of morden gps system.


There is a big difference: those civilizations were not criticizing everything else the competing/preceding civilization: they took the inventions and moved them forward. This included the Ottomans with the printing press.

All you are doing is putting hypocritical statements about how bad the west is, and yet using everything the west delivers.



Enigma SIG said:


> Couldn't care less about State propaganda and definitions of good/evil.
> There's no "all things west". All your tech is being manufactured in China.


Nobody on this forum or I have every defended western hegemony or past wrongs going to slavery. Yet thats all Putin lovers can think off and distract from the military debate on this thread.

As for tech manufactured in China: you should know there is a difference between building a disruptive innovation, and then once its commoditized, manufacturing it. once you have figured out what you use from China that was invented in China, then you can start a new thread and I will join.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Why should I? It's not my country. I'm Chinese living in Canada. Besides, Russians are not short on man power. Russia has 151 million people. Ukraine has 36 million people. That's enough man power advantage.


Dude, stop faking it. You are a Chinese living in China and with your idiotic posts, fortunately we know that you don't represent the Chinese view point. If people advantage drove victory, China would have not been occupied by Japan and China would have beaten Vietnam in 79. Anybody with an IQ of 50 would know this. This is all you have to go on and is a cut and paste you keep putting in and making yourself sound dumber each time you do this.

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## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> You are fucking idiot. This is your Definition. People like you do clean my Toilet.


Spoken like a true 3rd class person who is a first generation toilet user: once all your logic is gone, you get to this emotion. Expected.

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## Cash GK

aviator_fan said:


> There is a big difference: those civilizations were not criticizing everything else the competing/preceding civilization: they took the inventions and moved them forward. This included the Ottomans with the printing press.
> 
> All you are doing is putting hypocritical statements about how bad the west is, and yet using everything the west delivers.
> 
> 
> Nobody on this forum or I have every defended western hegemony or past wrongs going to slavery. Yet thats all Putin lovers can think off and distract from the military debate on this thread.
> 
> As for tech manufactured in China: you should know there is a difference between building a disruptive innovation, and then once its commoditized, manufacturing it. once you have figured out what you use from China that was invented in China, then you can start a new thread and I will join.
> 
> 
> Dude, stop faking it. You are a Chinese living in China and with your idiotic posts, fortunately we know that you don't represent the Chinese view point. If people advantage drove victory, China would have not been occupied by Japan and China would have beaten Vietnam in 79. Anybody with an IQ of 50 would know this. This is all you have to go on and is a cut and paste you keep putting in and making yourself sound dumber each time you do this.


Are you sure you are Pakistani? No disrespect just a question? It seems you only using Pakistani flags to convince Pakistanis


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## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> You taking it very wrong my dear Israeli friend. Many Western are not bad infact they very good human. But their establecimient used media as tool to run the lies.. one side they say attack on Iraq was right what Isreal is doing it is right. What Indians are doing in Kashmir they doing right but other side they what Russia is doing it is wrong we have problem with duble standers. You have to accept both side did wrong rather with amaraicn attack on Iraq Syria. Or ireali attack on Syria Jordan Palestine or Russian attack on Ukrainen. Whey selective justice


First of all I am not Israeli. There is not a single post I have that says the Iraq war was justified or the war in Syria by Russians. The world (including Arab countries themselves) have let down the Palestinians. You are absolutely right but thats like you writing a useless post about the sun going up everyday: what point are you making with your Putin sympathy?

The forum discussion is about a an attack on a bridge, or how weapons will be supplied or how Putin is acting like the ultimate CIA plant by making every wrong decision.

Then you have people like you talking about all the wrongs that west did and how slavery was wrong but you justify Russia's birth right to have access to a warm water port by invading Afghanistan. Then post a map that shows Afghanistan is landlocked. Slavery was wrong but attacking Afghanistan and subsequently Paksitan to get to a warm water port would have been fin.

How is that relevant when war is occurring now? You think this is some sort of a sissy fest where if you hate the winning side, you take a grivience approach of what happened 300 years and come back put the map of Afghanistan and say 'slavery was wrong, but Russia deserved AFghanistan'.

This is the irrational approach and thought process that got Russia into this mess: from being a perceived global power to a hollow shell of nothing that is putting its prisoners to fight a war and replacing its own generals faster than I change socks.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579816812027338753
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579766231225470977


Pls post some of Saudi/UAE levelling Yemen while you are at it. Where are they?

Or put some of the Iranians egging Hamas on to fight the Israelis and make the Gazans turn to cannon fodder while the murdering Iranians sit a 1000 miles away.



Cash GK said:


> It seems everyone started saying no to usa. Yesterday French Minister and today saudia....European population is getting angry on US occupation on Europ. Infact they are getting into senses that they were occupied by USA since world war2


What news are you reading? A 'Pledge' definitely falls into a saying 'yes' category.










G7 pledges support for Ukraine in emergency meeting


G7 members said Tuesday they will continue to assist Ukraine in defending itself against Russia and condemned Moscow for the escalation of the war this week.




www.upi.com





G7 pledges support for Ukraine in emergency meeting​ 


By Clyde Hughes













Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky makes a statement in the capital Kyiv on Monday. He will speak to the G7 on Tuesday. Photo by Ukrainian President Press Office/UPI | License Photo

Oct. 11 (UPI) -- G7 members said Tuesday they will continue to assist Ukraine in defending itself against Russia and condemned Moscow for the escalation of the war this week with two straight days of intense missile attacks throughout the country.
The G7 met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky remotely, spurred by Moscow delivering a widespread attack after a portion of the Kerch Bridge that connected Russia with occupied Crimea was destroyed over the weekend, angering the Kremlin.
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Members also denounced Russia's forcibly capturing Crimea in 2014, which has never been recognized by the international community.
"We condemn these attacks in the strongest possible terms and recall that indiscriminate attacks on innocent civilian populations constitute a war crime," the G7 said in a joint statement released Tuesday. "We will hold [Russian] President [Vladimir] Putin and those responsible to account.
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"The G7 firmly condemn and unequivocally reject the illegal attempted annexation by Russia of Ukraine's Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhya and Kherson regions in addition to the autonomous Republic of Crimea and the City of Sevastopol."
Zelensky has continued to push G7 members to continue their support, especially militarily against Russia. Kyiv had had recent success in stalling Russian advances and in limited circumstances pushed Moscow back in key areas in the eastern and southern portions of the country.
"We have imposed and will continue to impose further economic costs on Russia, including on individuals and entities -- inside and outside of Russia -- providing political or economic support for Russia's illegal attempts to change the status of Ukrainian territory," the G7 said.
RELATED U.S. airport websites reportedly hit by Russian hacking group

"We deplore deliberate Russian escalatory steps, including the partial mobilization of reservists and irresponsible nuclear rhetoric, which is putting global peace and security at risk. We reaffirm that any use of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons by Russia would be met with severe consequences."
The emergency meeting was confirmed by German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who had talked with Zelensky. G7 members include the United States along with Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan.
G7 members have already imposed heavy sanctions on Moscow when they invaded Ukraine in February, but that has not deterred Putin and the Kremlin from capturing land and attempting to annex land it now occupies.
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Russia had been part of the group until it forcibly annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014.
President Joe Biden said Monday he talked with Zelensky as well, as he offered continued military, humanitarian and economic support from the United States.
The White House said that in the phone call Biden underscored his ongoing engagement with allies and partners to continue imposing costs on Moscow and holding Russia accountable for its alleged war crimes and atrocities.
In the meantime, members of the United Nations General Assembly on Monday debated a resolution to Russia over its illegal attempt to annex four regions of southern and eastern Ukraine. Representatives from Russia and Ukraine both criticized the other countries over the war.
The General Assembly is expected to vote on the draft resolution later this week and follows the U.N. Security Council's failed attempt to adopt a similar resolution on Sept. 30 due to Russia utilizing its veto power.
On the battlefield early Tuesday, Moscow launched a barrage of missiles targeting the southern Ukrainian city of Zaporizhzhia. The Ukrainian State Emergency Service said Russia launched 12 missiles early Tuesday, hitting public facilities and killing at least one person.
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## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> This was first plan. Israelis and amaraicns wanted to take revenge from Russia after what Russia did with them in Syria. 90 percent urkrains are Orthodox and they are close to russian and Greeks Christians and ukrianian president is jew. Westren Establishment is Catholic. Do you understand my point...
> 
> 
> You took my words man


What exactly in your fantasy land have they done to Israel? I am not a fan for Israel. Israel still holds Golan and with impunity fly where it wishes and bomb what it wishes. While the Russians were there.

You got the Bath party as spineless wimps (with Russia support behind it) in the 60s and 70s have no effect in Israel. The only Israelis shot in air to air were Pakistani pilots flying their same Russian aircraft in the 73 war.

For all of everybody's opinions on how NATO does not fight but helps Ukraine: imagine where the middle east had been if in the 60s/70s, the Arabs had been able to leverage this kind of success against Israel. Soviet tactics were outdated, and Arabs were spineless. But one thing the Arabs universally got really good at was bombing their own civilians: Saudis, UAE, Egyptions (in Tahrir) and of course your Syrian friends.



Cash GK said:


> Are you sure you are Pakistani? No disrespect just a question? It seems you only using Pakistani flags to convince Pakistanis


Look through all my posts on this thread and even your IQ level will determine where I am from when you connect the dots. I thought you were crying about being bullied and going to start a competing forum of ignorant dumwitted idiots that only follow Russian twitter handles and not think through facts.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580077129764524032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580078482343665666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580072984597139456

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## aviator_fan

Gas is several times more expensive but now only 9% of gas is coming from Russia. Its lost its biggest customer. And Europeans still have gas but it costs more.

Costs more is more palatable than not having an alternate.

What the FT has not had is coverage on what it does to poor countries whose starvation rates are going up because food that was unaffordable after the pandemic is impossible now

*From yesterday's Financial Times:*

Since the invasion of Ukraine in February, EU sourcing of Russian gas has plummeted from 46 per cent to 9 per cent. This pivot came partially through increased piped gas from Norway and Algeria. Even more noteworthy, the dramatic increases in shipped LNG imports from the US and elsewhere have replaced the lost Russian vaporous gas from the targeted pipelines. This new supply surge to the EU now approaches, based on our calculations, 40 per cent of total global LNG supply.

While Putin doubles down, his gas gambit is failing​
Jeffrey Sonnenfeld
As Russia launches missile strikes on Kyiv and other major cities across Ukraine, President Vladimir Putin’s plans to stoke fears of a European freeze this winter are on the point of backfiring.
While Russia needs to sell the EU its natural gas, Europe no longer needs these supplies. Gas is becoming a buyer’s market. The energy crunch should be no threat to unified support for Ukraine, let alone Europeans’ comfort this winter, despite Putin’s machinations.
Certainly the alleged sabotage of the active Nord Stream 1 pipeline and the unopened Nord Stream 2 pipeline has shut down two sources of Russian gas, but the EU no longer needs them. Similarly, Putin’s fresh threats to cut off Russian gas still being sent through the Ukrainian transit pipeline system are intended to spark renewed concerns in Europe. But Europeans should be warmed by the burst of gas transforming markets this autumn.
Much attention has been focused on the demand side of the market equation: the reduction or destruction of demand, rationing and switching away from natural gas. Basic economic reasoning, however, means we should not forget the supply side.
Analysis of underlying supply patterns reveals that, contrary to common belief, Europe is securing enough gas and liquefied natural gas from global markets to fully substitute for lost Russian supplies already. What is more, it can fully replace every last bit of Russian gas without any need for demand destruction or even substitution away from gas.
Since the invasion of Ukraine in February, EU sourcing of Russian gas has plummeted from 46 per cent to 9 per cent. This pivot came partially through increased piped gas from Norway and Algeria. Even more noteworthy, the dramatic increases in shipped LNG imports from the US and elsewhere have replaced the lost Russian vaporous gas from the targeted pipelines. This new supply surge to the EU now approaches, based on our calculations, 40 per cent of total global LNG supply.
It is easy to overlook this revolution because it is still very new. But a review of every large LNG development project, liquefaction terminal and production field shows that this year alone, more than 100bn cubic metres of additional supply is expected to be brought online. This is a 20 per cent increase in total LNG supply.
With demand for LNG declining in the rest of the world, particularly in China, the new additions to global supply are enough to fully replace Europe’s dependence on Russian gas from the Nord Stream and Ukrainian transit pipelines. So much for Putin’s “gas supply crunch”.
To be sure, LNG is expensive and consumers and businesses are understandably concerned about skyrocketing energy costs. But this is a separate question from whether there is enough gas for Europe to fully replace Russian supply.
European governments are clearly already prioritising fiscal relief for consumers with respect to both building-heating (42 per cent of gas consumption across the EU) and electricity costs (28 per cent of gas consumption), with massive subsidies and transfer payments on an unprecedented scale.
European industry, which accounts for 30 per cent of gas consumption, has long feared structurally higher gas prices, but the data suggest that the potential economic impact is considerably less than feared.
The most natural-gas intensive sectors — metals, chemicals, paper, coke, fertilisers and refined petroleum/minerals processing — account for a quarter of the region’s natural gas usage, but only 3 per cent of the total gross value added in Europe, and less than 1 per cent of the total European workforce.
All the data suggest that, contrary to fears of a supply crunch, Europe is securing enough gas and LNG from global markets to fully replace supplies from Russian gas. Putin, by contrast, will be losing what we conservatively estimate to be $100bn from lost gas sales annually.
Having undermined his country’s reputation as a reliable energy supplier, which the Soviet Union maintained even at the height of the cold war, Putin has very little existing export capacity and faces difficulties in building more given icy conditions and the challenges of Arctic shipping. The single pipeline connecting Russia to China carries 10 per cent of the capacity of Russia’s European pipeline network, and China is not rushing to build any new ones.
So the only losers from this gas blackmail are Putin and his enablers.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580048543683072000


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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579831797260566529



Your thoughts on this ? :









Ukraine. A ship loaded with wheat for Somalia arrived in Chornomorsk 03.10.2022 - UkrAgroConsult


As part of the implementation of the "grain initiative", the fifth vessel chartered by the World Food Program of the United Nations arrived at the Ukrainian port of Chornomorsk for loading. This was reported by the Ministry of Infrastructure of Ukraine in Telegram. "On October 2, the New Island...




ukragroconsult.com














Ukraine says it will ship 50,000 tons of grain for Somalia, Ethiopia | Somali Guardian


MOGADISHU (Somaliguardian) - Ukraine’s cabinet said in a statement on Monday that it had decided to provide Somalia and Ethiopia with 50,000 tons of grain




somaliguardian.com





~

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Too late for that. Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Crimea were annexed. This is to the last man standing.


That has no meaning. It’s like a robber claims my Audi is his because he likes it. Come on take it I have some surprise for him.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Paul2 said:


> The last 5 pages of the thread is a pure mental retardation.
> 
> Ukraine ceases its existence, even if it wins? WTF, It's Russia which has a quite solid chances to fall apart.
> 
> Russia is a Yugoslavia on steroids, much, much worse.
> 
> It's quite realistic now that Ukraine be chopping off a good part of southern russia now.
> 
> Why I see the West being ok with Russia falling apart? It's by far the easiest way to deny them a UN seat with a straight face, and US can keep the security council without a reform.


Russia is losing that's why they're panicking. While Russia is lobbing missiles, ukrainians actually succeding in taking back more & more land. 

Turns out if you don't "westernize" your armed forces you are not going to win war.

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## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> Ukraine certainly needs security otherwise Putin, hooligans and rapists will return. Nobody will ever trust the words coming from their mouths.
> Russia reminds me much of a stalker. A man stalks his ex wife after divorce. The man can’t move on, he becomes aggressive, violent because his ex wife finds a new relationship with a new man (Nato).


100% this.

Even the twisted excuses russia make.

“If you did not resist so much i would not have to be so heavyhanded”

And where every slight leads to further violent outbursts.


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## Viet

Bakhmut still standing despite Russia onslaughts


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580093876626665472


Viet said:


> Bakhmut still standing despite Russia onslaughts



Few days ago Russian army and wagner captured vesela dolyna near Bakhmut after months of fighting and carpet bombing and after taking heavy casualties..... Vesela Dolyna is literally 10 houses....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579970832708747264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580116727307808768

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## Paul2

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Turns out if you don't "westernize" your armed forces you are not going to win war.



You cannot have low tax is you aren't a martial society. You cannot be a martial society without armed freemen. You cannot have armed freemen without sharing power with them.

Westernization as a phenomenon is entirely thanks to Europe experiencing an explosion of civilian militancy circa 1810-1830.

Now Westerners have reverted back to sheeple, and their societies are declining because of that. You can have a Kingdom, a Sheikhdom, an Emirate, but never a _*Serf*_-dom. Slaves can't rule not because of them having no rights, but because they are not ready to _ fight_ for those rights.

Now, the West is a lot of people who don't want to pay high taxes for a professional army, while wanting somebody else to protect them from Putins, and such.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> It changes nothing on ground, in fact, they took 3 more village and press closer to Svatove on the ground to now within 13 km (It was 20 km before). I mean, if you want to waste your precious ammo and drone on civilian infrastructure, that's up to you, but that's how people lose war. And Ukraine will gladly for you to bomb civilian power station or distribution hub.


just ramp up shahed production

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580118669241163776


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## Hack-Hook

sutton999 said:


> Ukriane under grooming to be next Israel, young woman and children are leaving, by the time current population becomes much older, massive Jewish immigration will make Ukraine new homeland for Jews.


Europeans worked so hard to throw jews out of Europe , then you think they allow them come back

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## Cash GK

aviator_fan said:


> What exactly in your fantasy land have they done to Israel? I am not a fan for Israel. Israel still holds Golan and with impunity fly where it wishes and bomb what it wishes. While the Russians were there.
> 
> You got the Bath party as spineless wimps (with Russia support behind it) in the 60s and 70s have no effect in Israel. The only Israelis shot in air to air were Pakistani pilots flying their same Russian aircraft in the 73 war.
> 
> For all of everybody's opinions on how NATO does not fight but helps Ukraine: imagine where the middle east had been if in the 60s/70s, the Arabs had been able to leverage this kind of success against Israel. Soviet tactics were outdated, and Arabs were spineless. But one thing the Arabs universally got really good at was bombing their own civilians: Saudis, UAE, Egyptions (in Tahrir) and of course your Syrian friends.
> 
> 
> Look through all my posts on this thread and even your IQ level will determine where I am from when you connect the dots. I thought you were crying about being bullied and going to start a competing forum of ignorant dumwitted idiots that only follow Russian twitter handles and not think through facts.


The man questions my iq. But the idiot does not know Chachan forces were Fighting in Syria.. usa and Isreal lost Syrian war in hands of Russian watch the video now I have doubt on your mental health. Do you know what is going on outside of your door. I am sure you have no idea . And you talk on international politics lol.Are you sure you Pakistani? As i know many people use Pakistani flags to run their lie in Pakistan. By the way I did not read your idiotic post as I did not want to waste my time.. I dont blame west for every crime budy. Infact I have reasonable good friend who are western. west is very Civilized society. But I am talking about western establecimiento they love blood. Common people in europ They nice people but they been poison by evil media.. But you can not deny the fact west has given us world war1 n 2 plus countless wars in last 100 years... when I give you reference of historical events. It mean everything has Connection to one another. You can not run from your shadow. As we know Russian shoulders are still in Syria usa want to have shoulders in Ukraine. Similar to Cuban Missile crisis. When Americans installed weapons in turkey and soviet installed weapons in Cuba. Isreal is very important for usa to control Arabs. Next move usa will make to destabilize Saudi Arabia though Israel if they refused to listen American demands. Which is Isreal's solo purpose to be in Arabs land. It is complete complex chass game. You need to have brain to understand this shit. I came to know that you have brain size of chicken 🐔. Lol


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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Ukraine certainly needs security otherwise Putin, hooligans and rapists will return. Nobody will ever trust the words coming from their mouths.
> Russia reminds me much of a stalker. A man stalks his ex wife after divorce. The man can’t move on, he becomes aggressive, violent because his ex wife finds a new relationship with a new man (Nato).


Russia with Ukraine and China with Taiwan are like abusive ex-husbands.

They can't accept that someone doesnt want to stand with them.

Likely Russian and Chinese generals treat their wives in the same way.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> just ramp up shahed production


It didn't do anything but target city.

From the last 2 months I have never see a strike that was recorded from the onboard drone that kill a mobile target.






While there are a lot of "Video" purporting Shahed destroying SPG or Tank or whatever, but no Onboard Footage

That is because a study of Shahed wreckage would know there are no onboard guidance system, there is "Optics" port but no link, which mean this would not be able to control on the ground other than limited control, which mean it was more or less a cruise missile, which mean it cannot be used to attack mobile target.

That would be a problem for Ukraine battlefield because you can hit static target all you want, Ukrainian are working on maneuver warfare where unit and command center are on the move all the time. While if this is a normal country, you can still use it to target Military industrial base but there are none left in Ukraine, pretty much every article Ukrainian are having now are from the West or Russian "Donation"

You can make 1000 shahed drone a year and send them to Russia, that would not make a different, to be honest, even TB-2 or Switchblade wasn't really that strategically important for Ukraine in the counter offensive, what do you think Shahed can achieve?

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## Cash GK

jhungary said:


> It didn't do anything but target city.
> 
> From the last 2 months I have never see a strike that was recorded from the onboard drone that kill a mobile target.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While there are a lot of "Video" purporting Shahed destroying SPG or Tank or whatever, but no Onboard Footage
> 
> That is because a study of Shahed wreckage would know there are no onboard guidance system, there is "Optics" port but no link, which mean this would not be able to control on the ground other than limited control, which mean it was more or less a cruise missile, which mean it cannot be used to attack mobile target.
> 
> That would be a problem for Ukraine battlefield because you can hit static target all you want, Ukrainian are working on maneuver warfare where unit and command center are on the move all the time. While if this is a normal country, you can still use it to target Military industrial base but there are none left in Ukraine, pretty much every article Ukrainian are having now are from the West or Russian "Donation"
> 
> You can make 1000 shahed drone a year and send them to Russia, that would not make a different, to be honest, even TB-2 or Switchblade wasn't really that strategically important for Ukraine in the counter offensive, what do you think Shahed can achieve?


If Russian want to keep Ukrainen on their tos just keep hitting urkrain with missils and drones once or twice in a month way Isreal does with Jordan Palestine and Syria. Ukrainen must do one thing if they wants to give damage to Russians. Hit and run policy is good for them. Last thing thy expect if European send their kids to die for them. They have to fight alone..this is their fight not Europe's fight now..

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## Enigma SIG

aviator_fan said:


> 1. Nobody on this forum or I have every defended western hegemony or past wrongs going to slavery.
> 2. Yet thats all *Putin lovers* can think off and distract from the military debate on this thread.


1. Yet that's exactly what you're doing parroting imperial US propaganda.
2. You're distracting from the military debate yourself by hurling out slurs and epithets.

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> Russia with Ukraine and China with Taiwan are like abusive ex-husbands.
> 
> They can't accept that someone doesnt want to stand with them.
> 
> Likely Russian and Chinese generals treat their wives in the same way.


Abusing ex man can become very violent sometimes he can turn a terrorist. See Putin. He is very angry because ex wife Ukraine runs into the arms of a richer man. Putin the loser.
Yes Xi shares the same fate he cries all days after his ex spouse Taiwan.

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## Ali_Baba

*Ukraine’s armed forces on Wednesday downed four Russian helicopters*









Ukrainian forces 'shoot down four Russian helicopters in 18 minutes'


Ukraine’s armed forces on Wednesday downed four Russian helicopters in 18 minutes in the south of the country.




www.telegraph.co.uk







> Ukraine’s armed forces on Wednesday downed four Russian helicopters in 18 minutes in the south of the country.
> 
> Between 8.40am and 8.58am, anti-aircraft missile units of Ukraine’s Air Force managed to hit the Russian aircrafts, it was claimed.
> 
> *“Combat work was carried out on two more helicopters, so there is a high probability that the number of confirmed down helicopters will increase,” the Air Force said in a press release.*
> 
> It was claimed one Russian helicopter, believed to be a Ka-52, crashed on territory recently liberated from Russian-backed militants, while the rest crashed behind enemy lines.
> 
> The helicopters were said to be “providing fire support to ground occupation troops in the southern direction” when they were gunned down.
> 
> 
> The claims were partially confirmed by pro-Russian sources on the Telegram messaging app.



Possibly 6 !!

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## sammuel

Operation command South confirmed liberation of Novovasylivka, Novohryhorivka, Nova Kamianka, Tryfonivka and Chervone in Beryslav district of Kherson region









Operation command South confirmed liberation of Novovasylivka, Novohryhorivka, Nova Kamianka, Tryfonivka and Chervone in Beryslav district of Kherson region Kherson - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Operation command South confirmed liberation of Novovasylivka, Novohryhorivka, Nova Kamianka, Tryfonivka and Chervone in Beryslav district of Kherson region. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a...




liveuamap.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580118753744154624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580137222052802562

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580135547665670144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580133193306734592

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## Cash GK

sammuel said:


> Operation command South confirmed liberation of Novovasylivka, Novohryhorivka, Nova Kamianka, Tryfonivka and Chervone in Beryslav district of Kherson region
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Operation command South confirmed liberation of Novovasylivka, Novohryhorivka, Nova Kamianka, Tryfonivka and Chervone in Beryslav district of Kherson region Kherson - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com
> 
> 
> Operation command South confirmed liberation of Novovasylivka, Novohryhorivka, Nova Kamianka, Tryfonivka and Chervone in Beryslav district of Kherson region. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> liveuamap.com


Are you jew or hindu. You name and flags tels that you are jew but you have dp of hindu godess. How it had happend a jew follows Statue of godess.isnt It forbiden in Ibrahim religion? Or you are hiding behind curtain with different identity 🤔


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580126891419127812

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580127409919397888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580135096908013568

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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Abusing ex man can become very violent sometimes he can turn a terrorist. See Putin. He is very angry because ex wife Ukraine runs into the arms of a richer man. Putin the loser.
> Yes Xi shares the same fate he cries all days after his ex spouse Taiwan.



They have a very similar behavior to those disgusting acts of crazy husbands.

A mix of "love" and aggresivity.

Putin wrote a love letter to Ukraine months before the war.



http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181



What a lunatic.

How he can write those things and months after send his army to kill innocent Ukrainian civilians?

They same with CCP and his "love" for Han Chinese people, terrorizing them with military drills, launching missiles over the Taiwanese people heads, making them feel the terror for death.

Please abusive nutheads, dont love so much your beloved peoples.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580152289121406976

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580137450281631745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580171893776478208


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## sammuel

Cash GK said:


> Are you jew or hindu. You name and flags tels that you are jew but you have dp of hindu godess. How it had happend a jew follows Statue of godess.isnt It forbiden in Ibrahim religion? Or you are hiding behind curtain with different identity 🤔



Following your logic , I take it for your avatar , you are an Egyptian and an idol worshiper ?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580171195152232448


Viet said:


> Ukraine certainly needs security otherwise Putin, hooligans and rapists will return. Nobody will ever trust the words coming from their mouths.
> Russia reminds me much of a stalker. A man stalks his ex wife after divorce. The man can’t move on, he becomes aggressive, violent because his ex wife finds a new relationship with a new man (Nato).



Wife should be beneficial. Ukraine is all cost no profit. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine pre war. China's wife is Russia. America's wife is Ukraine. China has good wife. America has bad wife.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580155716446605312

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Whoa. Drones are the future of warfare. Look this.


Looks like they’re about 20 years behind the US, as the US has already retired a similar drone
Ok back to Ukraine


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580180275723587584


RoadAmerica said:


> Looks like they’re about 20 years behind the US, as the US has already retired a similar drone
> Ok back to Ukraine



The US has no counterpart that is close to being operational.


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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> 100% this.
> 
> Even the twisted excuses russia make.
> 
> “If you did not resist so much i would not have to be so heavyhanded”
> 
> And where every slight leads to further violent outbursts.


The problem Russia has is Putin. The damage is done. He hijacks Russia. He invades Ukraine. He blackmails Europe. If he is in a Siberia gulag, the relationship will be normalized to Ukraine, to Europe in 50y.

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580180275723587584
> 
> 
> The US has no counterpart that is close to being operational.


Ever heard of the X-47 🙄


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## serenity

lol X-47 never even reached service. This guy... talks about military commentating.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580180275723587584
> 
> 
> The US has no counterpart that is close to being operational.




The US has been operating the RQ-180 for a number of years now.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> From the last 2 months I have never see a strike that was recorded from the onboard drone that kill a mobile target.


you see there is no onboard camera there , but wasn't there a report from some ukrainian commanders that some of their tanks and cannons were destroyed?
beside that , i don't think you can use cruise missiles to target mobile target. the drone was not designed to hit mobile target it was built for stationary targets like fuel storage , ammunition depot , Powe plant , telecommunication center , command center , barracks , even some people claim its capable of hitting school , kindergarten and parks 



jhungary said:


> That would be a problem for Ukraine battlefield because you can hit static target all you want, Ukrainian are working on maneuver warfare where unit and command center are on the move all the time. While if this is a normal country, you can still use it to target Military industrial base but there are none left in Ukraine, pretty much every article Ukrainian are having now are from the West or Russian "Donation"


Ukraine can move as much as it like , when there is no supply and logistic is broken you have lost . a question for you do you think this new offensive of Ukraine would have been successful if in last two month Ukraine didn't ran a campaign of hitting Russia supplies and fuel storage ? that's the basic of warfare , destroy enemy supply route , let their tanks ran out of fuel , let they go low on ammunition



jhungary said:


> You can make 1000 shahed drone a year and send them to Russia, that would not make a different, to be honest, even TB-2 or Switchblade wasn't really that strategically important for Ukraine in the counter offensive, what do you think Shahed can achieve?


what himras achieved for Ukraine but cheaper .


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has been operating the RQ-180 for a number of years now.



It is not the same class as S-70. It cannot attack.


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## RoadAmerica

serenity said:


> lol X-47 never even reached service. This guy... talks about military commentating.


Either has the S-70 smart guy
The point was the US tested nearly the same tech almost 20 years ago and retired it before the s-70’s first flight
Have anything else smart to say?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580194849881739266


RoadAmerica said:


> Either has the S-70 smart guy
> The point was the US tested nearly the same tech almost 20 years ago and retired it before the s-70’s first flight
> Have anything else smart to say?



S-70 is close to being operational. Su-57 took 10 years between first flight and induction. S-70 is less due to computerized design.


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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580194849881739266
> 
> 
> S-70 is close to being operational. Su-57 took 10 years between first flight and induction. S-70 is less due to computerized design.


Again the X-47 was retired before the S-70’s first flight, the US is light years ahead.
Where’s Russia’s stealth bomber? China?
The b2 has been in service since ‘97 and the first flight was ‘89, 33 years ago

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580180721821683713


RoadAmerica said:


> The b2 has been in service since ‘97 and the first flight was ‘89, 33 years ago



B-2 is obsolete. It cannot carry long range missile.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580183189309763584

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580135006189780992


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580057245307789322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580092689995173888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580093876626665472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580121118664294401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580118669241163776


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580203375203090432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580170281485680640

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580093876626665472
> 
> 
> Few days ago Russian army and wagner captured vesela dolyna near Bakhmut after months of fighting and carpet bombing and after taking heavy casualties..... Vesela Dolyna is literally 10 houses....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579970832708747264
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580116727307808768


Liberation of 10 houses? Wow not bad, great success for Russia military. After taking over they probably liberated washing machines, television sets from the houses.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580210467603374080

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580189688165343232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580189693093720064

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580205643771699200


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580206850556846080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580208099037618176


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580206850556846080
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580208099037618176



Drones are cheap and manufactured dozens a day. A good way to deplete surface to air missiles which are expensive and slow to manufacture.

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## Meengla

I am going to just about skip this whole 'Part 2' of this topic and cut to the chase! I expect pretty much what was said before in not only Part 1 but also in Part 2. Basically, the same old, same old. I have been mostly away from this forum for several months due to some career reasons but I have tried to follow the course of this *latest pivotal war in human history* and, as of now, here is what I think the overall situation is, along with my personal observations:

Americans are not going to stop destroying Russia EVEN IF Russia totally abandons the recently captured areas and retreats. And a dictator like Putin can't be seen to have 'lost' so Russia won't retreat. If someone takes out Putin to stop this war then I have no issues; humanity is more important than the Donbas region or someone's pride in a former glory. Russia, as I have often said in the Part 1 of this topic, is 'The Sick Man of Europe'. It has no future unless it shrinks to the west of the Urals, (and with minus the Caucasus regions, which are very different from Russia). In that scenario, a big victory for the American-led neocons might be 'unfair' but that world will still be better than what the Russian political system can ever produce. I know I am saying controversial things here. 

I will expound on my views later....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579740996845572096

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580180721821683713
> 
> 
> B-2 is obsolete. It cannot carry long range missile.


Obsolete my butt, why is China developing their own version of it if it’s obsolete??
Yes the jASSM and JASSM-ER are carried by the B2


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580220549334470658

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580218527738306561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580218154240053248


Meengla said:


> I am going to just about skip this whole 'Part 2' of this topic and cut to the chase! I expect pretty much what was said before in not only Part 1 but also in Part 2. Basically, the same old, same old. I have been mostly away from this forum for several months due to some career reasons but I have tried to follow the course of this *latest pivotal war in human history* and, as of now, here is what I think the overall situation is, along with my personal observations:
> 
> Americans are not going to stop destroying Russia EVEN IF Russia totally abandons the recently captured areas and retreats. And a dictator like Putin can't be seen to have 'lost' so Russia won't retreat. If someone takes out Putin to stop this war then I have no issues; humanity is more important than the Donbas region or someone's pride in a former glory. Russia, as I have often said in the Part 1 of this topic, is 'The Sick Man of Europe'. It has no future unless it shrinks to the west of the Urals, (and with minus the Caucasus regions, which are very different from Russia). In that scenario, a big victory for the American-led neocons might be 'unfair' but that world will still be better than what the Russian political system can ever produce. I know I am saying controversial things here.
> 
> I will expound on my views later....



The world is safer if the US breaks up into 50 states.



RoadAmerica said:


> Obsolete my butt, why is China developing their own version of it if it’s obsolete??
> Yes the jASSM and JASSM-ER are carried by the B2



JASSM-ER doesn't have good range. Only 500 miles. By comparison, Kh-101 has range 2000 miles. B-2 doesn't have a large weapons bay.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580150079230312448

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## Paul2

Something is happening in Tokmak... A third prong opening? Or another ruse to lure more RUAF to the south?


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> you see there is no onboard camera there , but wasn't there a report from some ukrainian commanders that some of their tanks and cannons were destroyed?
> beside that , i don't think you can use cruise missiles to target mobile target. the drone was not designed to hit mobile target it was built for stationary targets like fuel storage , ammunition depot , Powe plant , telecommunication center , command center , barracks , even some people claim its capable of hitting school , kindergarten and parks



There will still be optical feed from the operator ends. Either real time or delay.

If there is guidance system on board, which is a pre-requisite for hitting moving target, then there WILL be real-time or delay input, which mean some dude in a container somewhere (Well, doesn't have to be in a container) have to be watching the drone via a monitor and direct the drone to hit that moving target once they are launch, the drone itself cannot distinguish what is a moving military target and what is a moving civilian target. 

I mean, that is not some kind of magic that Russia need to hold back, I am pretty sure if there is a successful hit, there will be operator video like the one I show being released by the Russian. 

And no, there are no official report about Artillery Destroyed and APC, official report means officially reported by the Ukrainian chain of command, which is literally a report written by commander somewhere or official statement released somewhere. There are none. What it has I can find is someone quote the commander of 92 Brigade and said Shahed Drone destroy 4 artillery piece and 2 BMP. But there are no official reference anywhere, not even on the 92 Brigade commander social media account.

And finally, if they are designed to hit static target, as I explained, it wouldn't make a different on the field, because you won't be able to hit the field command structure and logistical base for Ukrainian Military does not exist, because weapon and munition came directly from the West. 



Hack-Hook said:


> Ukraine can move as much as it like , when there is no supply and logistic is broken you have lost . a question for you do you think this new offensive of Ukraine would have been successful if in last two month Ukraine didn't ran a campaign of hitting Russia supplies and fuel storage ? that's the basic of warfare , destroy enemy supply route , let their tanks ran out of fuel , let they go low on ammunition



How? Weapon will not be stored because it came straight from the west to the frontline. It's not like when Ukraine receive 4 HIMARS launcher and they say "Hey, let's store it somewhere for future use" 

Same with ammunition and fuel, there are no fuel and ammunition produced by Ukraine, or they can only have limited capacity for that, most of those also come from the west, you may be able to hit field depot but majority of those would have been on the move. 

In fact, military runs on a "Just In Time" logistic model, you don't usually store stuff if you are talking about food, ammunition and fuel (or in the military we called 1,3,5 logistic) because those things are in high demand in the field, you would have to move it almost immediately the time you received it. In most western military (not sure about Ukraine, but I think they have the same logistic system) If you need 1 bullet in the field, they will send you 3, 1 for you to use, 1 for backup, and 1 for "Just in case" the triplicate system. Which mean at any time, 3 times the logistic needed are on the move to where you need it in the field, and you can't hit those with the Shahed Drone, as they are in a truck somewhere going to the frontline. 

If you are talking about country like US or UK, yes, there will be strategic reserve that you can hit because they have excessive supplies, but as they say, if they dump it somewhere, which mean those things aren't needed anywhere. 



Hack-Hook said:


> what himras achieved for Ukraine but cheaper .



Lol, no. 

HIMARS is a GUIDED missile, you can guide HIMARS rocket to your target, that's why you keep seeing video of HIMARS rocket attack just about anything. Hard and Soft Target, they can hit tank on the field, APC, SPG, Artillery, they can hit Ammo Depot, they can hit command center, they can just about hit anything you need if you can see it. While Shahed can only hit static target. 

On the other hand, was Shahed cheaper than an individual M30A1 rocket? Maybe cheaper, but should not be by a lot, each Shahed Drone is equal to 1 single M30A1 rocket, it's estimating that rocket cost anywhere around 70,000 to 100,000 depends on country that buys them, but it would be cheaper for Ukraine because they will be using US Stock, and US would almost certainly get them for cheaper from LM. If we say Shahed is 10,000 per (Well, considering a civilian DJI drone cost around 3000), that mean HIMARS rocket is about 5 to 7 times more expensive than a Shahed. 

But if this article is anything to go by (It's pretty pro-Iran by the way)



https://min.news/en/military/55826f15f6fb083852b74a8a3325c6fe.html



It said each Shahed cost not more than $50,000 which is the same price for a M30A1 rocket at low end.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> It said each Shahed cost not more than $50,000 which is the same price for a M30A1 rocket at low end.



M30 costs 200 grand a piece. Drone is about 30 grand a piece. However the Archilles heel of HIMARS is it needs fuel to move. No power plant. No electricity. No electricity. No oil refining. No oil refining. No fuel.


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Something is happening in Tokmak... A third prong opening? Or another ruse to lure more RUAF to the south?
> 
> View attachment 886445


I have been saying for the last couple of days the Ukranian are massing force around Orikhiv......and predicted a move South to Melitopol when I talked to @Oldman1 a few days ago. 

I am not surprised at all if they are making a move now, I mean first they stretch the Russian supply line in East Kherson, then they attack the Kerch Bridge, that's aim to strain supply line from Russia to Crimea and to Kherson, if they attacked toward Melitopol, that will cut off Kherson GLOC....

That's what we will do, and that's what I said a couple of days ago.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580227410481422336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580226812520542210

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580236667503661056

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## F-22Raptor

Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





Russian losses now exceed 7,000 for the war

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580238786956783616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580225182379409410

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580236480873496582

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## Dalit

I told you so. The Russians avenged the attacks against Crimea bridge.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580243776962166784

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## jhungary




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## Dalit

The million dollar question. Where is Indian support for its Western allies? The West virtually stands alone in this crisis. The developing world has taken a neutral stance. Western ambassadors are trying to rally support for Ukrainian cause in many developing capitals. The response has been mute at best. India which claims to be a staunch ally of the West has also responded neutrally. Does this mean that even a staunch ally like India won't support the West during critical times? This despite overwhelming support for India from Western quarters. Testing times for US/NATO.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580249673688059904

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## Viet

Meengla said:


> I am going to just about skip this whole 'Part 2' of this topic and cut to the chase! I expect pretty much what was said before in not only Part 1 but also in Part 2. Basically, the same old, same old. I have been mostly away from this forum for several months due to some career reasons but I have tried to follow the course of this *latest pivotal war in human history* and, as of now, here is what I think the overall situation is, along with my personal observations:
> 
> Americans are not going to stop destroying Russia EVEN IF Russia totally abandons the recently captured areas and retreats. And a dictator like Putin can't be seen to have 'lost' so Russia won't retreat. If someone takes out Putin to stop this war then I have no issues; humanity is more important than the Donbas region or someone's pride in a former glory. Russia, as I have often said in the Part 1 of this topic, is 'The Sick Man of Europe'. It has no future unless it shrinks to the west of the Urals, (and with minus the Caucasus regions, which are very different from Russia). In that scenario, a big victory for the American-led neocons might be 'unfair' but that world will still be better than what the Russian political system can ever produce. I know I am saying controversial things here.
> 
> I will expound on my views later....


I admire your patience in pushing your ego career, while the world is on the brink. In case you missed it: Putin threatens to nuke Ukraine, US, Nato.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> I admire your patience in pushing your ego career, while the world is on the brink. In case you missed it: Putin threatens to nuke Ukraine, US, Nato.



Russians have the right to defend themselves from Anglo threat.

FYI, we Chinese have not forgotten Anglo invasion of China and annexation of Hong Kong.

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> The million dollar question. Where is Indian support for its Western allies? The West virtually stands alone in this crisis. The developing world has taken a neutral stance. Western ambassadors are trying to rally support for Ukrainian cause in many developing capitals. The response has been mute at best. India which claims to be a staunch ally of the West has also responded neutrally. Does this mean that even a staunch ally like India won't support the West during critical times? This despite overwhelming support for India from Western quarters. Testing times for US/NATO.


It’s all about money. India makes more profits as long as the war ongoing. It’s cruel but the more deaths the cheaper the oil price. Russia offers 10 percent discount on crude oil to India. Chinese are smarter. They get oil cheaper. If I was India I would blackmail Putin with higher discount rate. (Rumour says Putin sells 30 percent discount rate to China).
Should the oil price cap coming as planned by G7, Russia would sell oil 50 percent cheaper than market price.

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## jhungary

Looks like Ukrainian are either starting something on Zaporizhya front or stuff has already started.

There are A LOT of communication on Telegram in Tokmak Area. It was quiet after Ukraine took out Russian S-300 launcher some 5 or 6 days ago, and now it was buzzed with chatter...

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> It’s all about money. India makes more profits as long as the war ongoing. It’s cruel but the more deaths the cheaper the oil price. Russia offers 10 percent discount on crude oil to India. Chinese are smarter. They get oil cheaper. If I was India I would blackmail Putin with higher discount rate. (Rumour says Putin sells 30 percent discount rate to China).
> Should the oil price cap coming as planned by G7, Russia would sell oil 50 percent cheaper than market price.



In other words, not a very reliable ally. The West constantly presents India as its most trusted ally. Yet India chooses to be absent at most critical times. India continues to buy Russian oil, gas and weaponry at discount rates. The Western powers continue to fool themselves with regards to India. Are they doing this with a specific purpose?

Would it be fair to say that India would also prove to be a untrustworthy ally in the quest contain China? After all, India's primary role is to contain China for Western powers.



Viet said:


> I admire your patience in pushing your ego career, while the world is on the brink. In case you missed it: Putin threatens to nuke Ukraine, US, Nato.



US, NATO and Ukraine is not the world through. This is your fight. Don't drag neutral nations into it.

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> The million dollar question. Where is Indian support for its Western allies? The West virtually stands alone in this crisis. The developing world has taken a neutral stance. Western ambassadors are trying to rally support for Ukrainian cause in many developing capitals. The response has been mute at best. India which claims to be a staunch ally of the West has also responded neutrally. Does this mean that even a staunch ally like India won't support the West during critical times? This despite overwhelming support for India from Western quarters. Testing times for US/NATO.


In times of strife you will know who your friends are. 

I do hope we keep a list of whom stabbed us in the back on this. Saudis as nr1.

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> In other words, not a very reliable ally. The West constantly presents India as its most trusted ally. Yet India chooses to be absent at most critical times. India continues to buy Russian oil, gas and weaponry at discount rates. The Western powers continue to fool themselves with regards to India. Are they doing this with a specific purpose?
> 
> Would it be fair to say that India would also prove to be a untrustworthy ally in the quest contain China? After all, India's primary role is to contain China for Western powers.
> 
> 
> 
> US, NATO and Ukraine is not the world through. This is your fight. Don't drag neutral nations into it.


You think nuclear war only affects people like me in Germany? Man, wake up. Nuclear fallouts would drop on Dubai, too or who knows Cuba. Let’s wait to where the wind blowing.
Yes true, India role as mediator is finished.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> It’s all about money. India makes more profits as long as the war ongoing. It’s cruel but the more deaths the cheaper the oil price. Russia offers 10 percent discount on crude oil to India. Chinese are smarter. They get oil cheaper. If I was India I would blackmail Putin with higher discount rate. (Rumour says Putin sells 30 percent discount rate to China).
> Should the oil price cap coming as planned by G7, Russia would sell oil 50 percent cheaper than market price.


The goal is to damage Russian Economy. The goal is NOT to stop China or India making money.

India and China are buying the oil that would have been purchased by EU at discounted price, that would be enough to hurt Russia.

And there are limited appetite for China and India to stomach Russian oil, the basic economic principal applies, when you flood a market with supplies, you will get less demand.


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## PakFactor

Dalit said:


> The million dollar question. Where is Indian support for its Western allies? The West virtually stands alone in this crisis. The developing world has taken a neutral stance. Western ambassadors are trying to rally support for Ukrainian cause in many developing capitals. The response has been mute at best. India which claims to be a staunch ally of the West has also responded neutrally. Does this mean that even a staunch ally like India won't support the West during critical times? This despite overwhelming support for India from Western quarters. Testing times for US/NATO.



The Indians, as I've said before, went back to their tried and tested Cold War strategy, whereas our nightclub dancing establishment was in the mood to entertain the West. So India milked the situation, whereas Pakistan wetted its bed sheets for the West, willingly a free offer without buying anything.

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> In times of strife you will know who your friends are.
> 
> I do hope we keep a list of whom stabbed us in the back on this. Saudis as nr1.



The Indians occupy top slot. You always present them as the most trusted ally. Not so trustworthy in the end. As things stand right now, India is a better ally of Russia. Europeans allow Indian tech and steel companies to compete in their markets. The US has gone out of its way to suck up to to India. CEO jobs for Indians at big US firms. India gets preferential treatment. The Western powers have clearly defined India's role. Yet, India fails to fulfil the role. India is today neutral and stands with Russia.



PakFactor said:


> The Indians, as I've said before, went back to their tried and tested Cold War strategy, whereas our nightclub dancing establishment was in the mood to entertain the West. So India milked the situation, whereas Pakistan wetted its bed sheets for the West, willingly a free offer without buying anything.



Pakistan will pay the ultimate price. Licking US European boots won't get Pakistan anywhere.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> The goal is to damage Russian Economy. The goal is NOT to stop China or India making money.
> 
> India and China are buying the oil that would have been purchased by EU at discounted price, that would be enough to hurt Russia.
> 
> And there are limited appetite for China and India to stomach Russian oil, the basic economic principal applies, when you flood a market with supplies, you will get less demand.


Yes will be very ugly, Russia economy is primary target. The planned oil cap will reduce Russia oil revenues by 50 pct. China/India reshipping oil to Europe is another story though.


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## PakFactor

Dalit said:


> The Indians occupy top slot. You always present them as the most trusted ally. Not so trustworthy in the end. As things stand right now, India is a better ally of Russia. Europeans allow Indian tech and steal companies to compete in their markets. The US has gone out of its way to suck up to to India. CEO jobs for Indians at big US firms. India gets preferential treatment. For what? India is today neutral and stands with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan will pay the ultimate price. Licking US European boots won't get Pakistan anywhere.



Of course, the next step will be 6 feet distance relationship between China and Pakistan. Enough to annoy India but not enough to tilt the balance; they've seen through Pakistan's establishment and do not see it as trustworthy.


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## Dalit

PakFactor said:


> Of course, the next step will be 6 feet distance relationship between China and Pakistan. Enough to annoy India but not enough to tilt the balance; they've seen through Pakistan's establishment and do not see it as trustworthy.



Pakistan is nowhere. Irrelivant. It has an army that calls the shots, but sells its country to the highest bidder. The Americans have always been the highest bidder. Hence, the Pak army is indebted to the US.

In the Ukraine war Pakistan has once again played the wrong cards. It has made an enemy out of Russia. Pakistani army is appeasing the Americans. The Americans will ditch Pakistan high and dry like they always have.

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## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580220549334470658
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580218527738306561
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580218154240053248
> 
> Actually the b-2 can carry 16 JASSM while the TU-160 (plane with the largest payload) can only carry 12 KH-101
> The world is safer if the US breaks up into 50 states.
> 
> 
> 
> JASSM-ER doesn't have good range. Only 500 miles. By comparison, Kh-101 has range 2000 miles. B-2 doesn't have a large weapons bay.


Actually the b-2 can carry 16 JASSM while the TU-160 (plane with the largest payload) can only carry 12 KH-101

So false once again


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> The goal is to damage Russian Economy. The goal is NOT to stop China or India making money.
> 
> India and China are buying the oil that would have been purchased by EU at discounted price, that would be enough to hurt Russia.
> 
> And there are limited appetite for China and India to stomach Russian oil, the basic economic principal applies, when you flood a market with supplies, you will get less demand.



I would argue that if the goal was to _ destroy_ russian economy, NATO + Japan + SK would've already had a big portion of russians eating grass without firing a bullet

As of now, the level of economic pressure is just a bit past mild annoyance, and is less than that of Iran for example, and miles away from NorKo


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580211727911641089

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Yes will be very ugly, Russia economy is primary target. The planned oil cap will reduce Russia oil revenues by 50 pct. China/India reshipping oil to Europe is another story though.



Few notice, but this will give a huge edge to Yugaslavia scenario.

Right now, moscow is not existentially dependent on regions, they can just import stuff from the same Europe, at least food, if 1-2 regions will send moscow a middle finger.

But if, say, Manchuria can tax _ existentially_ important traffic to moscow, that's half way to actual independence.


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I would argue that if the goal was to _ destroy_ russian economy, NATO + Japan + SK would've already had a big portion of russians eating grass without firing a bullet
> 
> As of now, the level of economic pressure is just a bit past mild annoyance, and is less than that of Iran for example, and miles away from NorKo


That's why I said "Damage" not "Destroy" 

If you "Destroy" Russian Economy, which EU and US can certainly do so, (US increase oil and gas production while Japan and SK dump Russian asset and stop exporting material important for industrial base and EU took Russia off SWIFT completely) But then that would mean we are facing a Russia that with nothing left to lose other than potato.....Russia may actually goes with Nuclear Option.

The NATO goal is always try to hurt Putin and co Pocket, not to take those out of their hand. You don't know what nothing to lose beggar with nuke might do.

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## ziaulislam

jhungary said:


> That's why I said "Damage" not "Destroy"
> 
> If you "Destroy" Russian Economy, which EU and US can certainly do so, (US increase oil and gas production while Japan and SK dump Russian asset and stop exporting material important for industrial base and EU took Russia off SWIFT completely) But then that would mean we are facing a Russia that with nothing left to lose other than potato.....Russia may actually goes with Nuclear Option.
> 
> The NATO goal is always try to hurt Putin and co Pocket, not to take those out of their hand. You don't know what nothing to lose beggar with nuke might do.


China will not cooperate with Russian sanctions nor can UN sanctions be imposed.

USA has done whatever it can

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## Reashot Xigwin

ziaulislam said:


> China will not cooperate with Russian sanctions nor can UN sanctions be imposed.
> 
> USA has done whatever it can


The US sanction already costed Russia billions of dollars a day for their illegal invasion.

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## LeGenD

925boy said:


> wait, are you seriously this dumb to call this comment by the head of NATO, a military alliance, "speaking for the freeworld"?
> This is indirect admission that NATO is in war with RUssia- we all know it on PDF< except you.
> 
> 
> stupid semantics by a low IQ fake professor like you - stop ducking - you know we are talking ABOUT NATO HERE_ the entity whose interests the Ukraine war serves- getting its next "client".
> what about those biolabs bro? any deets on them?
> 
> you look dumb avoiding my question - me: 1, you 0.


If you find a post triggering then report it instead of responding in kind or worse. You could be penalized for this post but I have showed leniency for now.



925boy said:


> but without ground troops to hold ground, you lose the war, so has NATO learned that lesson- even in Syria, NATO doesnt have much territory or freedom to operatte..but they fired 52 Tomahawks into Syria under Trump...in the long term, war is won by who holds ground more permanently using troops/ground forces- thats why NATO has lost every recent war, its so pathetic- they have all the reasons to win, but they always lose.


But USA is NOT trying to *colonize* Syria and other countries. 

A war can be fought for fulfillment of LIMITED political objectives in a particular region:

Americans wanted to dismantle Al-Qaeda Network in Afghanistan (Operation Enduring Freedom) = objective accomplished.
Americans wanted to bring an end to Saddam regime in Iraq (Operation Iraqi Freedom) = objective accomplished.
Americans wanted to bring an end to Qaddafi regime in Libya (Operation Odyssey Dawn) = objective accomplished.
Americans wanted to bring an end to ISIS across Iraq and Syria (Operation Inherent Resolve) = objective accomplished.

USA have demonstrated the capacity to conduct military operations in 3 countries at a time. US-led forces have completely altered the political landscape of Iraq and security dynamics of the Middle East by extension. How is this not an achievement in your books? This mission can be criticized on moralistic grounds (fair enough), but job well done from strictly military standpoint.

A regional power like Iran (or even Russia) does not have resources to replicate American military performance in terms of scale and desired outcomes. 
- Iran could NOT take Basra in 8 years of war with Iraq. Iraq was "receiving aid from other countries" mantra is not good enough; US-led forces destroyed Iraqi armed forces at their FINEST in 45 days in 1991. US-led forces were called again to occupy Iraq and topple Saddam regime in 2003 and overcame horrific levels of Iraqi insurgency in subsequent years (2004 - 2008); both Syria and Iran provided material and financial assistance to Iraqi insurgent groups [of choice] in these years but they were overcome one by one. Obama administration called off US-led forces from Iraq in 2011.
- ISIL emerged in 2013 and was TOO BIG for Iran (or even Russia) to handle across Iraq and Syria. Obama administration had to reverse course and launch another military operation to rollback this movement in subsequent years (2014 - 2021); American air power had operational capacity to strike at ISIL positions across Iraq and Syria with impunity while US-led forces destroyed ISIS strongholds on the ground. This operation was brilliantly executed on all counts. Any country should STUDY this COIN WARFARE MODEL.

You have a very pessimistic view of American missions. Do you think American war-machine is globally feared for being a paper tiger or photo-op sessions?

Russian armed forces are MEDIOCRE much like the army of any regional power in Asia and it shows in Ukraine. Even in Syria, Russian forces stood no chance against US-led forces in actual battle. They really don't. Ask Putin why he ordered deployment of mobile Topol-M ICBMs around Moscow while launching an attack on Ukraine.

Afghanistan is VERY DIFFICULT to control due to being LANDLOCKED. Afghan Taliban also enjoy significant support in the region - their support base extends beyond Afghan borders. US decided to stick to the core objective of dismantling Al-Qaeda Network. 

Now what do you want USA to do in a war? Utterly wipe out another country from the face of the Earth? 

You need to understand the nature of MODERN WARFARE. Limited objectives make it possible to KEEP your army battle-hardened, make your weapon systems combat proven, and arms manufacturers in business. 

I do think that companies involved in arms manufacturing should be allowed to diversify their portfolio and develop products for commercial use to keep them in business. Boeing follows this model for instance. Point is to find LESS reasons to fight a war and destroy lives in distant lands.

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## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> China will not cooperate with Russian sanctions nor can UN sanctions be imposed.
> 
> USA has done whatever it can


Really naive to think so.......

On top of my head, the first thing US can do, and most probably WILL DO in the near future is increase oil production and drive down the price, US wasn't really depending on Oil and Gas sector to survive, with price cap, and if US expand shale oil/gas extraction by 2 Millon barrel a day to 4 million barrel a day, it will drive oil price down to below $60, which mean Russia will be losing money by selling oil to China and India on discount. That's number 1.

Another thing US can do is to go after ALL essential machine and tooling, US provide a lot of advance machine tooling to Russia even after sanction because it deems essential for Russian Population (Same reason why Samsung or Apple has not left Russia), if that stop, in 3 to 6 months, it will take down Russian advance production capability, and they can't buy them from China, because US sell them to China. Things like integrated IC circuit and High Density Aluminium product.

Things EU can do is first of all, CUT RUSSIA COMPLETELY off SWIFT. This still has not done. Second, EU can dip into their vast undersea shale, which would also drive oil and gas price down. And finally, EU still buying a lot of agriculture product from Russia, and they still sell quite a lot of medical, technical and optical product to Russia.

On the other hand, China is a non-factor in this issue, US/EU don't really care if China enforces Russian sanction, as long as it did not send any economic or military aid to Russia. As I explained, the goal for Russian Sanction is to damage Russian economy, not stop India or China from making money, and China buying Russian oil and gas WITH DISCOUNT is hurting Russia, because otherwise they would have earned 30% or more if they were selling to EU, so earning 30% less is the damage to Russian economy because that black has to come out from something within Russian economy.

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## Whizzack

Viet said:


> Yes will be very ugly, Russia economy is primary target. The planned oil cap will reduce Russia oil revenues by 50 pct. China/India reshipping oil to Europe is another story though.



The planned oil price cap is unlikely to be successful.. the West can declare it, but the Global South (and especially OPEC) won't adhere to it.. the fact that OPEC chose to decrease production even at the risk of provoking the US's wrath is proof that they wont allow the West to dictate the price of oil... same with the rest of the Global South, most are commodity producers and exporters, if the West succeeded in capping (or fixing) the price of Russian oil, what will keep the West from doing the same with other commodities and against other countries whenever they feel like it..?



jhungary said:


> On top of my head, the first thing US can do, and most probably WILL DO in the near future is increase oil production and drive down the price, US wasn't really depending on Oil and Gas sector to survive, with price cap, and if US expand shale oil/gas extraction by 2 Millon barrel a day to 4 million barrel a day, it will drive oil price down to below $60, which mean Russia will be losing money by selling oil to China and India on discount.



If oil price goes down to below $60, shale oil producers will go out of business... even at $80, most shale oil producer will be thinking very hard before investing in additional production again.. $100 oil is likely the price where shale oil producers will start to feel comfortable to begin large scale investment and production.

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## Cash GK

Viet said:


> Yes will be very ugly, Russia economy is primary target. The planned oil cap will reduce Russia oil revenues by 50 pct. China/India reshipping oil to Europe is another story though.


You are very wrong. Chinese and Indians buying the oil very cheap. 2.9 billions people buying their oil and gass. These two countries will send cheap products in market and otherside europ is buying expensive gass from its best friend usa. Eu Manufacturing costs is going up. In China and India manufacturing cost is going down. Tell me who's economy is in good shape. Russians are getting money weapons from China india and iran along with their own tech. common man which world are you living...you live in Mars right? Europe alongside Ukrainen are the biggest losers. Usa selling weapons and gass. This statement is very strong

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> There will still be optical feed from the operator ends. Either real time or delay.


there is no feed , iran never published any russia never published any ,. they don't need any on this model


jhungary said:


> Weapon will not be stored because it came straight from the west to the frontline. It's not like when Ukraine receive 4 HIMARS launcher and they say "Hey, let's store it somewhere for future use"


it never work like that ,


RoadAmerica said:


> Actually the b-2 can carry 16 JASSM while the TU-160 (plane with the largest payload) can only carry 12 KH-101
> 
> So false once again


well some may say in the amount of time b-2 go and release the bombs that tu-160 go release the bomb , come back and reload and again go and do bombing


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## ZeGerman

LeGenD said:


> If you find a post triggering then report it instead of responding in kind or worse. You could be penalized for this post but I have showed leniency for now.
> 
> 
> But USA is NOT trying to *colonize* Syria and other countries.
> 
> A war can be fought for fulfillment of LIMITED political objectives in a particular region:
> 
> Americans wanted to dismantle Al-Qaeda Network in Afghanistan (Operation Enduring Freedom) = objective accomplished.
> Americans wanted to bring an end to Saddam regime in Iraq (Operation Iraqi Freedom) = objective accomplished.
> Americans wanted to bring an end to Qaddafi regime in Libya (Operation Odyssey Dawn) = objective accomplished.
> Americans wanted to bring an end to ISIS across Iraq and Syria (Operation Inherent Resolve) = objective accomplished.
> 
> USA have demonstrated the capacity to conduct military operations in 3 countries at a time. US-led forces have completely altered the political landscape of Iraq and security dynamics of the Middle East by extension. How is this not an achievement in your books? This mission can be criticized on moralistic grounds (fair enough), but job well done from strictly military standpoint.
> 
> A regional power like Iran (or even Russia) does not have resources to replicate American military performance in terms of scale and desired outcomes.
> - Iran could NOT take Basra in 8 years of war with Iraq. Iraq was "receiving aid from other countries" mantra is not good enough; US-led forces destroyed Iraqi armed forces at their FINEST in 45 days in 1991. US-led forces were called again to occupy Iraq and topple Saddam regime in 2003 and overcame horrific levels of Iraqi insurgency in subsequent years (2004 - 2008); both Syria and Iran provided material and financial assistance to Iraqi insurgent groups [of choice] in these years but they were overcome one by one. Obama administration called off US-led forces from Iraq in 2011.
> - ISIL emerged in 2013 and was TOO BIG for Iran (or even Russia) to handle across Iraq and Syria. Obama administration had to reverse course and launch another military operation to rollback this movement in subsequent years (2014 - 2021); American air power had operational capacity to strike at ISIL positions across Iraq and Syria with impunity while US-led forces destroyed ISIS strongholds on the ground. This operation was brilliantly executed on all counts. Any country should STUDY this COIN WARFARE MODEL.
> 
> You have a very pessimistic view of American missions. Do you think American war-machine is globally feared for being a paper tiger or photo-op sessions?
> 
> Russian armed forces are MEDIOCRE much like the army of any regional power in Asia and it shows in Ukraine. Even in Syria, Russian forces stood no chance against US-led forces in actual battle. They really don't. Ask Putin why he ordered deployment of mobile Topol-M ICBMs around Moscow while launching an attack on Ukraine.
> 
> Afghanistan is VERY DIFFICULT to control due to being LANDLOCKED. Afghan Taliban also enjoy significant support in the region - their support base extends beyond Afghan borders. US decided to stick to the core objective of dismantling Al-Qaeda Network.
> 
> Now what do you want USA to do in a war? Utterly wipe out another country from the face of the Earth?
> 
> You need to understand the nature of MODERN WARFARE. Limited objectives make it possible to KEEP your army battle-hardened, make your weapon systems combat proven, and arms manufacturers in business.
> 
> I do think that companies involved in arms manufacturing should be allowed to diversify their portfolio and develop products for commercial use to keep them in business. Boeing follows this model for instance. Point is to find LESS reasons to fight a war and destroy lives in distant lands.


Very well explained. The initial military goals were reached with immense display of power. It is in the aftermath, of adding/overreaching with geopolitical goals where Nato/USA had often miscalculated. 

It is at “winning hearts and minds”, nation building, and fostering the right alliances where they failed. And we see the results where taliban returns in power, syria falls to assad/russia, Libya is a mess, and iraq under heavy iranian influence.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> there is no feed , iran never published any russia never published any ,. they don't need any on this model



This war is pretty much about Bragging, from all the killing and bombing both side posted on social media, if you think Iranian drone work like what they say, they wouldn't post feed of those drone like they did with TB-2 or Switchblade? I found it hard to believe. 

Also, it is the RUSSIAN, not Iranian who are using those drone, if they killed Ukrainian Artillery with those, they will MOST CERTAINLY post the kill shot online.



Hack-Hook said:


> it never work like that ,



You mean what never work like that? The logistic or how Shahed was used?


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## ZeGerman

How much of Europe’s gas storage is filled


Tracking the latest figures as the EU races to fill storage sites to an 80% target by Oct.1, when the European heating season begins.




graphics.reuters.com













Europe's gas prices reach three-month low as demand falls


Gas prices have fallen as the EU's gas storage facilities hit 90% of capacity. #EuropeNews




www.euronews.com





Opec can reduce production but worldwide recession is coming. Last time it caused a fivefold decrease of gas and oil prices. 

Russia managed to dampen the economic hit from sanctions with the high gas/oil prices….but that is going to end soon…

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## Cash GK

jhungary said:


> Really naive to think so.......
> 
> On top of my head, the first thing US can do, and most probably WILL DO in the near future is increase oil production and drive down the price, US wasn't really depending on Oil and Gas sector to survive, with price cap, and if US expand shale oil/gas extraction by 2 Millon barrel a day to 4 million barrel a day, it will drive oil price down to below $60, which mean Russia will be losing money by selling oil to China and India on discount. That's number 1.
> 
> Another thing US can do is to go after ALL essential machine and tooling, US provide a lot of advance machine tooling to Russia even after sanction because it deems essential for Russian Population (Same reason why Samsung or Apple has not left Russia), if that stop, in 3 to 6 months, it will take down Russian advance production capability, and they can't buy them from China, because US sell them to China. Things like integrated IC circuit and High Density Aluminium product.
> 
> Things EU can do is first of all, CUT RUSSIA COMPLETELY off SWIFT. This still has not done. Second, EU can dip into their vast undersea shale, which would also drive oil and gas price down. And finally, EU
> 
> 
> LeGenD said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you find a post triggering then report it instead of responding in kind or worse. You could be penalized for this post but I have showed leniency for now.
> 
> 
> But USA is NOT trying to *colonize* Syria and other countries.
> 
> A war can be fought for fulfillment of LIMITED political objectives in a particular region:
> 
> Americans wanted to dismantle Al-Qaeda Network in Afghanistan (Operation Enduring Freedom) = objective accomplished.
> Americans wanted to bring an end to Saddam regime in Iraq (Operation Iraqi Freedom) = objective accomplished.
> Americans wanted to bring an end to Qaddafi regime in Libya (Operation Odyssey Dawn) = objective accomplished.
> Americans wanted to bring an end to ISIS
Click to expand...

You are a funny ma You still believe in that shit.... usa sale one botel in tthree deferent labels 🏷 

1 Democracy: Iraq war was fought with democracy tital
2 Humenrights:. Syrian war was fought with all three titles. Human rights terrorism and democracy 
3 Terrorism.:Afghanistan war was fought with label of terrorism 
These are their textbook methods for every war..

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## jhungary

lol, Russian at its best.......






Putin : IT's EU fault for creating the Energy Crisis

Also Putin : Russia can still send gas to Europe thru Nord Stream 2.....

I mean, com'on.......



Cash GK said:


> You are a funny ma You still believe in that shit.... usa sale one botel in tthree deferent labels 🏷
> 
> 1 Democracy: Iraq war was fought with democracy tital
> 2 Humenrights:. Syrian war was fought with all three titles. Human rights terrorism and democracy
> 3 Terrorism.:Afghanistan war was fought with label of terrorism
> These are their textbook methods for every war..


Well, I don't just "Believe" in that shit, I believe in what my friend LIVING IN RUSSIA had told me. 

Again, if you think Russia is that rosy, maybe you should move to Russia from where ever you are??

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## MeFishToo

Whizzack said:


> The planned oil price cap is unlikely to be successful.. the West can declare it, but the Global South (and especially OPEC) won't adhere to it.. the fact that OPEC chose to decrease production even at the risk of provoking the US's wrath is proof that they wont allow the West to dictate the price of oil... same with the rest of the Global South, most are commodity producers and exporters, if the West succeeded in capping (or fixing) the price of Russian oil, what will keep the West from doing the same with other commodities and against other countries whenever they feel like it..?
> 
> 
> 
> If oil price goes down to below $60, shale oil producers will go out of business... even at $80, most shale oil producer will be thinking very hard before investing in additional production again.. $100 oil is likely the price where shale oil producers will start to feel comfortable to begin large scale investment and production.


Lets say Shale oil production needs a price above $80. Then OPEC has to keep the price below those $80, because of the massive shale oil deposits on North America. Combined shale oil deposits in Europe are even on par with Russia. OPEC has somewhat monopoly on _cheap_ oil, but not on oil as such. Oil prices above $100 is abnormal.

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## The SC




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## jhungary

Whizzack said:


> If oil price goes down to below $60, shale oil producers will go out of business... even at $80, most shale oil producer will be thinking very hard before investing in additional production again.. $100 oil is likely the price where shale oil producers will start to feel comfortable to begin large scale investment and production.


No, shale oil company will not go out of business, Russia will. Oil took around 50 a barrel to extra, then you have tax and finally refining them into final product, there are a lot of profit margin for oil company. 

Bear in mind Brent Price is hovering around 53 - 64 between 18'- 19' then drop to < 40 during COVID. If US Shale oil producer will go out of business below 60, they would have 4 or 5 years ago. 

$100 a barrel is NOT AT ALL sustainable, that's what OPEC want, but that's not consumer want, and that's what US President wouldn't allow because POTUS need population support to be re-elected, you can't get re-elected if oil is at $100 a barrel..



Whizzack said:


> The planned oil price cap is unlikely to be successful.. the West can declare it, but the Global South (and especially OPEC) won't adhere to it.. the fact that OPEC chose to decrease production even at the risk of provoking the US's wrath is proof that they wont allow the West to dictate the price of oil... same with the rest of the Global South, most are commodity producers and exporters, if the West succeeded in capping (or fixing) the price of Russian oil, what will keep the West from doing the same with other commodities and against other countries whenever they feel like it..?


THe problem is, it's NOT OPEC who dictate oil price, it's always the consumer, for example, during COVID shut down, everyone not buying oil, Brent Dropped below $40 a barrel, do you think OPEC want to get $40 a barrel? I don't think so. 

The factor that determined oil price more or less based on consumer demand. Which mean how much the developed economy need. Which in term mean who have the best economic activities would dictate the oil price, because if their demand high, oil price high, and their demand low, oil price lower. That's the battle between US, EU and China. Each has roughly 1/4 share of world economy, which today is more like a Mexican standoff....


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> But then that would mean we are facing a Russia that with nothing left to lose other than potato.....Russia may actually goes with Nuclear Option.



I would argue that USA _desperately needs_ something to make its Western allies to fear Russia more to restart the Western alliance.

If few megatons looming above EU capitals is not a threat big enough. It's only logical to _ force_ that scenario; while the cost is _ only_ few megatons, and not the disintegration of Western alliance as a whole.

The cost for the US of a Suez scenario will be incomparable to what UK had in Suez. We had the US to take over, but there will be no big brother for the US.

Really, few mirvs flying into an EU capital, now, and moscow being subsequently Drezdenised by a combined NATO force would be the _ BEST_ possible scenario for the Western alliance.


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## kingQamaR

Fracking isn't going to produce cheap energy though and won't lower prices because they're set globally. It's a supply stop gap until cheap renewables take over - No amount of shale gas from hundreds of wells dotted across rural England would be enough to lower the European price any time soon. And with the best will in the world, private companies are not going to sell the shale gas they produce to UK consumers below the market price. They are not charities, but then again energy companies will make a tidy proffit


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> This war is pretty much about Bragging, from all the killing and bombing both side posted on social media, if you think Iranian drone work like what they say, they wouldn't post feed of those drone like they did with TB-2 or Switchblade? I found it hard to believe.
> 
> Also, it is the RUSSIAN, not Iranian who are using those drone, if they killed Ukrainian Artillery with those, they will MOST CERTAINLY post the kill shot online.


if we want brag , we do like what we did with Kurd terrorists in Iraq send a uav with the capability and that film it, why destroy good cameras and communication device on a suicide uavs that supposed to hit stationary target, to raise production cost and make the design more complex ?
and no war is not about bragging , its about killing and destroying enemy equipment



jhungary said:


> You mean what never work like that? The logistic or how Shahed was used?


logistics .for example you don't stash 100 missile beside himrass , or 500 shell beside each cannon it defeat the mobility ideology behind the system


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## kingQamaR

If the Germans got their finger out as in supplying the Ukraine with the promised Depard anti aircraft tanks they could take out these drones with ease as their radar can deal with up to 200 targets at any one time and using AI can prioritise targets in nano seconds and deal with them just as quick.

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## MeFishToo

kingQamaR said:


> Fracking isn't going to produce cheap energy though and won't lower prices because they're set globally. It's a supply stop gap until cheap renewables take over - No amount of shale gas from hundreds of wells dotted across rural England would be enough to lower the European price any time soon. And with the best will in the world, private companies are not going to sell the shale gas they produce to UK consumers below the market price. They are not charities, but then again energy companies will make a tidy proffit


Energy prices in a country is mostly defined by taxes or subsidies. Gasoline prices vary from $0.02 to $3 per liter across the world. Its just a matter of politics. More than half the price of gasoline in my country is taxes.

The major peak in natural gas prices is leading industries to temporarily shift to coal or other forms of energy. Eventually falling demands for an unstable energy source will make gas prices fall back to normal. 

Next year were all fine. Maybe Putin will even be asking for forgiveness ..

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## MeFishToo

kingQamaR said:


> If the Germans got their finger out as in supplying the Ukraine with the promised Depard anti aircraft tanks they could take out these drones with ease as their radar can deal with up to 200 targets at any one time and using AI can prioritise targets in nano seconds and deal with them just as quick.


I just dont think Germany has a fleet of working Gepards standing ready. Germany just woke up after decades of a collective naive understanding of the security situation in Europe - like most european countries. People honestly believed war was something from the past never to happen again.
They may have a hi-tech arms industry, but mostly meant for export.

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## Paul2

MeFishToo said:


> I just dont think Germany has a fleet of working Gepards standing ready. Germany just woke up after decades of a collective naive understanding of the security situation in Europe - like most european countries. People honestly believed war was something from the past never to happen again.
> They may have a hi-tech arms industry, but mostly meant for export.



Three critical theses:

European major powers categorically refused to believe in 2nd military in the world sitting at its doorsteps coming, and raping them
To this day, these fools are still trying to play games with moscow, and not take it seriously. Like the foolish idea of keeping russia alive to "ballance" the US
Point 1, and point 2, put Major Powers in opposition to the US — the only power out there in the world to save their asses if commies are to go for them
The conception of the Western alliance is dysfunctional, and not viable if US needs to defend EU, while EU does not want to be defended, clinging to the insane belief that "this can't happen to us," and that crazy Ivan will, for some reason, not rape them, like he did Ukrainians.

In years prior to WW2, the folly of The Major Powers was underestimating the German military, while now their folly is refusing to believe the threat exists as such.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580295103088066560

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
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## kingQamaR

MeFishToo said:


> I just dont think Germany has a fleet of working Gepards standing ready. Germany just woke up after decades of a collective naive understanding of the security situation in Europe - like most european countries. People honestly believed war was something from the past never to happen again.
> They may have a hi-tech arms industry, but mostly meant for export.



Germany handed Ukraine another six Gepard anti-aircraft self-propelled artillery guns along with ammunition.

This follows from the updated list of military supplies, posted on the of the German Federal Government, Ukrinform reports.

A total of 6,000 anti-aircraft munitions pieces go along with the self-propelled guns. Also, 3,000 shells for 155-mm artillery were handed over.

Thus, the Armed Forces of Ukraine already have in service a total of 30 Gepards


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## dbc

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580295103088066560


Well, surprised that Saudi and UAE voted against Russia. Cuba abstained now that is a big surprise. The votes in support of Russia the usual suspects, North Korea, Syria, Belarus and Nicaragua.

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## kingQamaR

dbc said:


> Well, surprised that Saudi and UAE voted against Russia. Cuba abstained now that is a big surprise. The votes in support of Russia the usual suspects, North Korea, Syria, Belarus and Nicaragua.



India are a real problem as many, many UK and european businesses host theirs and their clients data in India, much of it commercially sensitive. If India continues to support Russia, even through abstentions, then what trust do the owners of personell records and clients information have that India does not suddenly mandate it to all be given Russian access. The world has seen India as a cheap nation to host its data but that is looking more and more like a very expensive mistake.


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> if we want brag , we do like what we did with Kurd terrorists in Iraq send a uav with the capability and that film it, why destroy good cameras and communication device on a suicide uavs that supposed to hit stationary target, to raise production cost and make the design more complex ?
> and no war is not about bragging , its about killing and destroying enemy equipment



*NOT YOU* and* NOT YOUR WAR WITH KURD.*

I said Russia and this war, again, look at how many social media post on* BOTH SIDE* for people or tank that were Killed *IN THIS WAR?

I don't know or wouldn't say anything about your war with iraqi kurd or turkey or whoever, I am talking about this Russia-Ukrainian war. *




Hack-Hook said:


> logistics .for example you don't stash 100 missile beside himrass , or 500 shell beside each cannon it defeat the mobility ideology behind the system



You don't have 100 missiles next to a HIMARS, but you don't store 100 HIMARS missile off site somewhere, again, Logistic is about you have 1 next to you, 1 on the move, and 1 also on the move as backup, and unless Ukraine can produce 4 HIMARS rocket per every launcher, they won't have any store up.

You only will store whatever you have spare, and that is *NOT *the case for the Ukrainian, and I suggest you go read something about Just-In-Time logistic model before your next comment, because I cannot further dumb down the concept for you, and you obviously have no idea what is just-in-time logistic model.









A study of system dynamics in just-in-time logistics


Just-in-time (JIT) systems are designed to produce and deliver goods or services as needed, using minimal inventories. It is a logistics philosophy fo…




www.sciencedirect.com







Paul2 said:


> I would argue that USA _desperately needs_ something to make its Western allies to fear Russia more to restart the Western alliance.
> 
> If few megatons looming above EU capitals is not a threat big enough. It's only logical to _ force_ that scenario; while the cost is _ only_ few megatons, and not the disintegration of Western alliance as a whole.
> 
> The cost for the US of a Suez scenario will be incomparable to what UK had in Suez. We had the US to take over, but there will be no big brother for the US.
> 
> Really, few mirvs flying into an EU capital, now, and moscow being subsequently Drezdenised by a combined NATO force would be the _ BEST_ possible scenario for the Western alliance.


Well, US want EU at their heel, not want them to be destroyed, it works no good for anyone if EU is destroyed along with Russia. 

And you probably watch away too much TV or thriller novel on this.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580274375277748225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580202208490303488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580139027751399424

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2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## MeFishToo

kingQamaR said:


> Germany handed Ukraine another six Gepard anti-aircraft self-propelled artillery guns along with ammunition.
> 
> This follows from the updated list of military supplies, posted on the of the German Federal Government, Ukrinform reports.
> 
> A total of 6,000 anti-aircraft munitions pieces go along with the self-propelled guns. Also, 3,000 shells for 155-mm artillery were handed over.
> 
> Thus, the Armed Forces of Ukraine already have in service a total of 30 Gepards


That is great news. But still, a country like Germany shouldve been able to donate more. I believe they have 100 stored as do the Netherlands. Germany could deliever Weisel 2 in the light air defense version too.
Its not like Germany doesnt have great weapon systems, but it seems theyre just devoloping. Nothing really gets into large scale production for its armed forces.
Germany only has 200 operational MBT and 350 IFV. To compare, Sweden has 120 MBT and 350 IFV. Denmark has 40 MBT and 40 IFV, and we chose to reform our underfunded armed forces to expeditionary mechanized battle groups during the Afghan War to join the US.

Good news is Germany seem to be serious about arming up, and I have no doubt they are able to do it if they want to.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580308025902272512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580228558055968768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580192003458883585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580146514248093696

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## RoadAmerica

Cash GK said:


> You are very wrong. Chinese and Indians buying the oil very cheap. 2.9 billions people buying their oil and gass. These two countries will send cheap products in market and otherside europ is buying expensive gass from its best friend usa. Eu Manufacturing costs is going up. In China and India manufacturing cost is going down. Tell me who's economy is in good shape. Russians are getting money weapons from China india and iran along with their own tech. common man which world are you living...you live in Mars right? Europe alongside Ukrainen are the biggest losers. Usa selling weapons and gass. This statement is very strong
> View attachment 886469


With covid zero policy china’s economy is in shambles and their housing market is falling apart.
China isn’t in good shape

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## dbc

kingQamaR said:


> India are a real problem as many, many UK and european businesses host theirs and their clients data in India, much of it commercially sensitive. If India continues to support Russia, even through abstentions, then what trust do the owners of personell records and clients information have that India does not suddenly mandate it to all be given Russian access. The world has seen India as a cheap nation to host its data but that is looking more and more like a very expensive mistake.



Its not true, I know for a fact that major European business host their data center within the EU. Even the once that have IaaS,PaaS or SaaS arrangement with GCP, Azure or AWS use cloud data centers within the EU. Now EU GDPR laws do not specifically enforce data residency but the level of protection for EU PII (Personal Identity Information) must be retained regardless of where the data resides or who handles the data. Any business that is found not in compliance with GDPR will have to pay a very heavy fine. If memory serves the first breach will cost the business 5% of its global revenue. I didn't think India hosts data centers for EU or US businesses.
I mean the country does not even have UPS (uninterrupted power supply) in major cities. I remember visiting a large US chip maker facility in India in 2008 (I think) and I saw a dozen diesel power generators mounted on trucks humming all around the facility. I haven't visited India since then but I don't think India has developed enough to support the infrastructure hosting business at scale. Of course you are right, India should be treated with suspicion largely because I think Indians have been heavily compromised by the Russians over the last 70 years - I guess the Russians have plenty of dirt on Indian politicians, public servants and military officials.

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## MeFishToo

Paul2 said:


> Three critical theses:
> 
> European major powers categorically refused to believe in 2nd military in the world sitting at its doorsteps coming, and raping them
> To this day, these fools are still trying to play games with moscow, and not take it seriously. Like the foolish idea of keeping russia alive to "ballance" the US
> Point 1, and point 2, put Major Powers in opposition to the US — the only power out there in the world to save their asses if commies are to go for them
> The conception of the Western alliance is dysfunctional, and not viable if US needs to defend EU, while EU does not want to be defended, clinging to the insane belief that "this can't happen to us," and that crazy Ivan will, for some reason, not rape them, like he did Ukrainians.
> 
> In years prior to WW2, the folly of The Major Powers was underestimating the German military, while now their folly is refusing to believe the threat exists as such.


I believe the tide has turned, and western european countries are going to invest quite heavy in its armed forces. Maybe to a degree the US might like (or dislike?). 
The US has provided security for Europe, but its not like its been a burden for them enforcing global dominance partly from european soil. I believe it was just as much an advantage for the US as it was for Europe. Lets see what a divided US might think of Europe not needing US protection in the future. Maybe another economic and military powerhouse challenging the US is not what it wants.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580135585326706688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580125722567274497

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## 925boy

Cash GK said:


> Why you guys think war is just pubg game. Real world every single bolt cost money. Comon guys...


"You guys' or UKRAINE?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580205857672900610


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580336815965622274

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580328665623429120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580330904492597249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580316391827472384

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nonsense. It is raining back home and drought was mitigated. Ukraine helping anyone when they're getting bombed? Give me a break. We don't need the West's bogus food aid. They used it to destroy our bread basket.
> 
> Now, how about you., Pajeet? 👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Rat Eaters of India: A marginalised community that may be the country's poorest
> 
> 
> ALAMPUR GONPURA, INDIA (AFP) - The rat kept crawling over Mr Phekan Manjhi's arm as he battled to pin it to the ground before he eventually managed to kill it with repeated blows to the head. Read more at straitstimes.com.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.straitstimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask the Ukrainians that you love so much to send you a food instead of eating rats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Food crisis? Try rats, says Indian state government
> 
> 
> A state government in eastern Indian is encouraging people to eat rats in an effort to battle soaring food prices and save grain stocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A rat-eating pajeet has an audacity to point fingers on others. For heaven sake, stop eating rats, and ask Ukrainians to send you wheat.
> 
> It is laughable when Pajeets hide behind Israeli flags. ROFL LMAOFF





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580296190997852160

Even your own country voted in favor of Ukraine Hassan. Time to give it up, Russia has lost

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## Cash GK

Hack-Hook said:


> if we want brag , we do like what we did with Kurd terrorists in Iraq send a uav with the capability and that film it, why destroy good cameras and communication device on a suicide uavs that supposed to hit stationary target, to raise production cost and make the design more complex ?
> and no war is not about bragging , its about killing and destroying enemy equipment
> 
> 
> logistics .for example you don't stash 100 missile beside himrass , or 500 shell beside each cannon it defeat the mobility ideology behind the system


S


925boy said:


> "You guys' or UKRAINE?


Ukrainens are fools. This is what happen when you choose a emotional idiot as your leader. He was comedian and made his country a joke. If I was president of Ukraine I could have safe my country my history my infrastructure with one line. (We will stay neutral). We not going to join any organization. They were fooled by usa. Infact this time there is bigger fool then Ukrainens. It is Europe. They have to look after 5 millions refuses and plus expensive gas for the sake of usa wishes

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580293815357042688

Reactions: Love Love:
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## 925boy

Cash GK said:


> If I was president of Ukraine I could have safe my country my history my infrastructure with one line. (We will stay neutral). We not going to join any organizations.


EXACTLY! this would have saved the world and Ukraine all this mess- but oph well, now that Ukraine asked for a beating of its life, here it is- no apologies from me- when Ukranians get angry that they've lost so many lives and they cant rebuild theirt country, thats when US will tell Ukraine its done all it can and it needs to move on.

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## Cash GK

RoadAmerica said:


> With covid zero policy china’s economy is in shambles and their housing market is falling apart.
> China isn’t in good shape


Look this what happened to everyone in covid 19 times.but they got big jump which was needed. They are buying nonstop gass from Russia. They dont have to send ships to buy gass from Arabs and face blockade by US Navy . Infact you guys gave them favour to get cheap gass.. chines must be thankful of your help. Russia is giving them very cheap which they used to give to Germany..chines will take with open amrams.. common man come out of your Fantasy media affects. World is changing fast. You guys are not the supper power of 90z



925boy said:


> EXACTLY! this would have saved the world and Ukraine all this mess- but oph well, now that Ukraine asked for a beating of its life, here it is- no apologies from me- when Ukranians get angry that they've lost so many lives and they cant rebuild theirt country, thats when US will tell Ukraine its done all it can and it needs to move on.


Agree. World do not have sons tobe killed in war of a fool and his masters.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580296190997852160
> 
> Even your own country voted in favor of Ukraine Hassan. Time to give it up, Russia has lost



Because we have a puppet govt who takes orders from the West. The US, EU, and UK recently engineered a fake selection through a fake parliament where they overthrew the patriotic president and brought in a puppet. The idiot is just following the West's tail.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580252971753144320

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## 925boy

Cash GK said:


> Agree. World do not have sons tobe killed in war of a fool and his masters.


All for what? NATO aspirations? NATO aspirations vs lost territory + lost economy + lost trade + lost resources + lost lives + lost opportunity + lost future.

Ukrainian govt is surely stupid, but US chose it because US govt loves yes yes puppets, so the more of a puppet the country is, the more US "loves" them.

Ukraine will get fukd for foreseeable future and Russia and NATO will walk away and recover. And no fake professor Jhungary, Ukraine WONT join NATO ever. screenshot this

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## RoadAmerica

Cash GK said:


> Look this what happened to everyone in covid 19 times.but they got big jump which was needed. They are buying nonstop gass from Russia. They dont have to send ships to buy gass from Arabs and face blockade by US Navy . Infact you guys gave them favour to get cheap gass.. chines must be thankful of your help. Russia is giving them very cheap which they used to give to Germany..chines will take with open amrams.. common man come out of your Fantasy media affects. World is changing fast. You guys are not the supper power of 90z
> 
> 
> Agree. World do not have sons tobe killed in war of a fool and his masters.


Except China is still locked down, the rest of the world isn’t


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 11​Oct 11, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, George Barros, Kateryna Stepanenko, Grace Mappes, Riley Bailey, and Frederick W. Kagan
October 11, 8:15 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces conducted massive missile strikes across Ukraine for the second day in a row on October 11. *The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces fired nearly 30 Kh-101 and Kh-55 cruise missiles from Tu-95 and Tu-160 strategic bombers and damaged critical infrastructure in Lviv, Vinnytsia, Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, and Zaporizhia oblasts.[1] Ukrainian air defense reportedly destroyed 21 cruise missiles and 11 unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).[2] Social media footage shows the aftermath of strikes throughout Ukraine.[3] Russian forces additionally continued to launch attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure with Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones.[4] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian air defense destroyed eight Shahed-136 drones in Mykolaiv Oblast on the night of October 10 and 11.[5]
*Army General Sergey Surovikin’s previous experience as commander of Russian Armed Forces in Syria likely does not explain the massive wave of missile strikes across Ukraine over the past few days, nor does it signal a change in the trajectory of Russian capabilities or strategy in Ukraine. *Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) representative, Andriy Yusov, linked the recent strikes to Surovikin’s appointment as theatre commander and stated on October 11 that “throwing rockets at civilian infrastructure objects” is consistent with Surovikin’s tactics in Syria.[6] However, Surovikin has been serving in Ukraine (as the Commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces and then reportedly of the southern grouping of Russian forces) since the beginning of the war, as have many senior Russian commanders similarly associated with Russian operations in Syria.[7] Army General Aleksandr Dvornikov, who was appointed in April to the role that Surovikin now holds, similarly commanded Russian forces in Syria between 2015-2016 and became known for deliberately and brutally targeting civilians.[8] Colonel General Aleksandr Chayko, the former commander of the Eastern Military District who took an active part in the first stages of the war in Ukraine, also served as Chief of Staff of Russian forces in Syria from 2015 and into 2016.[9] As ISW noted in April, all Russian military district, aerospace, and airborne commanders served at least one tour in Syria as either chief of staff or commander of Russian forces, and Russian forces deliberately targeted civilian infrastructure including hospitals and breadlines throughout the period of Russia’s active engagement in that war.[10] Disregard for international law and an enthusiasm for brutalizing civilian populations was standard operating procedure for Russian forces in Syria before, during, and after Surovikin’s tenure. It has become part of the Russian way of war.
*Surovikin’s appointment will not lead to further “Syrianization” of Russian operations in Ukraine because the battlespace in Ukraine is fundamentally different from the battlespace in Syria, and direct comparisons to Surovikin’s Syrian “playbook” obfuscate the fact that Russia faces very different challenges in Ukraine. *Russia cannot further “Syrianize” the war largely because of its failure to gain air superiority, which precludes its ability to launch the kind of massive carpet-bombing campaigns across Ukraine that it could, and did, conduct in Syria. ISW has previously assessed that Russian air operations would have been markedly different if conducted in contested airspace or a more challenging air-defense environment, as is the case in Ukraine.[11] It is therefore highly unlikely that Surovikin’s role as theatre commander will cause a fundamental change in Russian air and missile operations in Ukraine as long as Ukraine’s Western backers continue to supply Kyiv with the air defenses needed to prevent Russia from gaining air superiority.
*Russian military officials may instead have coordinated Surovikin’s appointment and the October 10 cruise missile strikes on Ukrainian critical infrastructure to rehabilitate the perception of the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD). *Whoever was appointed as theatre commander would have overseen the October 10 cruise missile strikes, which Ukrainian intelligence reported had been planned as early as October 2 (and which Surovikin certainly did not plan, prepare for, and conduct on the day of his appointment).[12] Russian milbloggers have recently lauded both the massive wave of strikes on October 10 and Surovikin’s appointment and correlated the two as positive developments for Russian operations in Ukraine. This narrative may be aligned with ongoing Russian information operations to rehabilitate the reputation of Central Military District Command Colonel General Aleksandr Lapin following Russian failures around Lyman as part of a wider campaign to bolster public opinion of the Russian military establishment. The Russian MoD is evidently invested in repairing its public image, and the informational effects of the October 10 missile strikes and the appointment of Surovikin, a hero in the extremist nationalist Russian information space, are likely intended to cater to the most vocal voices in that space.
*The Russian Federation is likely extracting ammunition and other materiel from Belarusian storage bases—activity that is incompatible with setting conditions for a large-scale Russian or Belarusian ground attack against Ukraine from Belarus.* The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on October 11 that a train with 492 tons of ammunition from the Belarusian 43rd Missile and Ammunition Storage Arsenal in Gomel arrived at the Kirovskaya Railway Station in Crimea on an unspecified recent past date.[13] The GUR reported that Belarusian officials plan to send an additional 13 trains with weapons, equipment, ammunition, and other unspecified materiel from five different Belarusian bases to the Kamenska (Kamensk-Shakhtinsky) and Marchevo (Taganrog) railway stations in Rostov Oblast on an unspecified future date. Open-source social media footage supports this report. Geolocated footage showed at least two Belarusian trains transporting Belarusian T-72 tanks and Ural military trucks in Minsk and Tor-M2 surface-to-air missile launchers in Orsha (Vitebsk Oblast) on October 11.[14] Belarusian equipment movements into Russia indicate that Russian and Belarusian forces likely are not establishing assembly areas in Belarus. Belarusian equipment and supply movements to Crimea and Rostov Oblast indicate that Russian forces are less confident about the security of Russian ground lines of communication running through northern and western Luhansk Oblast given the ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensive there. Ukraine’s General Staff reiterated that it monitors Belarus and has not observed indicators of the formation of offensive groups in Belarus on October 11.[15] Russian and or Belarusian forces remain unlikely to attack Ukraine from Belarus, as ISW has previously assessed.[16]
Belarus remains a co-belligerent in Russia’s war against Ukraine, nonetheless. Belarus materially supports Russian offensives in Ukraine and provides Russian forces with havens from which to attack Ukraine with precision munitions. Russian forces struck Kyiv with Shahed-136 drones launched from Belarusian territory on October 10.[17] The GUR additionally reported that Russia deployed 32 Shahed-136 drones to Belarus as of October 10 and that Russia will deploy eight more to Belarus by October 14.[18]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces conducted massive missile strikes across Ukraine for the second day in a row.*
*Army General Sergey Surovikin’s previous experience as commander of Russian Armed Forces in Syria is likely unrelated to the massive wave of missile strikes across Ukraine over the past few days, nor does it signal a change in the trajectory of Russian capabilities or strategy in Ukraine.*
*The Russian Federation is likely extracting ammunition and other materiel from Belarusian storage bases, which is incompatible with the notion that Russian forces are setting conditions for a ground attack against Ukraine from Belarus.*
*Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued to conduct counteroffensives east of the Oskil River and in the direction of Kreminna-Svatove.*
*Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian troops continued ground attacks in northern and western Kherson Oblast.*
*Ukrainian forces are continuing an interdiction campaign to target Russian military, technical, and logistics assets and concentration areas in Kherson Oblast.*
*Russian forces continued to conduct ground assaults in Donetsk Oblast.*
*Russian reporting of explosions in Dzhankoy, Crimea, indicated panic over losing further logistics capabilities in Crimea following the Kerch Strait Bridge explosion.*
*Russian federal subjects are announcing new extensions and phases of mobilization in select regions, which may indicate that they have not met their mobilization quotas.*
*Russian and occupation administration officials continue to conduct filtration activities in Russian-occupied territories.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Oskil River-Kreminna Line)*
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued to conduct offensive operations east of the Oskil River in the direction of Kreminna and Svatove on October 11. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian forces near Krokhmalne in Kharkiv Oblast (20km northwest of Svatove) and Stel’makhivka in Luhansk Oblast (15km northwest of Svatove).[19] The Russian MoD also claimed that Ukrainian forces unsuccessfully attempted to cross the Zherebets River southwest of Svatove in the direction of Raihorodka and Novovodiane, Luhansk Oblast, on October 11.[20] [21] A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces are regrouping and restoring combat capabilities near Kupyansk to prepare for assaults near the Pershotravneve-Kyslivka line.[22] The milblogger also claimed that Ukrainian forces are concentrating personnel and equipment in the Lyman-Svatove direction to launch an offensive on Svatove and Kreminna with a strike group of up to 40,000 personnel.[23] ISW makes no effort to forecast Ukrainian operations or to evaluate the likelihood of Russian forecasts about them.
Russian sources claimed that Russian forces conducted a local counterattack and recaptured territories west of Kreminna while continuing to establish defensive positions in the Kreminna-Svatove area on October 11. Russian milbloggers claimed on October 11 that Russian forces conducted counteroffensive operations east of Lyman and recaptured Terny, Torske, Novosadove, Makiivka, and Nevske, although ISW cannot independently verify any of these claims.[24] Russian sources posted videos on October 11 purporting to show Russian forces constructing trenches with BTM-3 entrenching machines along the Svatove-Kreminna line, with one source dubbing the effort a Russian-made “Maginot” line (referring to the massive belt of French fortifications built between the two world wars that the Germans simply drove around).[25] Luhansk Oblast Head Serhiy Haidai also reported that Russian forces are continuing to mine territory in Luhansk Oblast to slow Ukrainian counteroffensive operations.[26] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted routine indirect fire along the Oskil River-Kreminna line on October 11.[27]



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Russian sources continued to claim that Ukrainian troops conducted ground attacks in northern and western Kherson Oblast on October 11. The Russian MoD claimed that two Ukrainian battalion tactical groups (BTGs) conducted offensive operations in the direction of Borozenske and Piatykhatky—both along the current Davydiv Brid-Dudchany frontline in northern Kherson Oblast and about 35km from the critical Russian-controlled town of Beryslav.[28] A Russian milblogger similarly indicated that Ukrainian troops are preparing to advance south of the Davydiv Brid-Dudchany line and conducting artillery preparations for subsequent attacks on Russian positions in the direction of Beryslav.[29] Russian milbloggers additionally indicated that Ukrainian troops are attempting to reinforce positions in the Davydiv Brid area (western Kherson Oblast near the Mykolaiv Oblast border and along the Inhulets River) to prepare for advances to the southeast.[30] Several Russian sources reported that Ukrainian troops attempted to attack toward Bruskynske (6km south of Davyvid Brid), Ishchenka (8km southeast of Davydiv Brid), and Sadok (12km southeast of Davydiv Brid).[31] ISW offers no evaluation of these Russian claims regarding likely future Ukrainian operations or force groupings.
Ukrainian military officials largely maintained their operational silence regarding Ukrainian ground attacks in Kherson Oblast but reiterated that Ukrainian forces are continuing an interdiction campaign to target Russian military, technical, and logistics assets and concentration areas.[32] Geolocated social media footage posted October 11 shows the aftermath of October 10 Ukrainian strikes on a medical college dormitory in Beryslav that Russian forces were reportedly using as quarters.[33] Imagery posted on October 11 additionally shows damage to the Antonivsky Bridge in Kherson City following a Ukrainian HIMARS strike.[34] Geolocated footage shows a Ukrainian RAM II loitering munition striking a Russian Osa air defense system near Kyselivka, 17km northwest of Kherson City.[35]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to conduct ground assaults in Donetsk Oblast on October 11. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground assaults near Bakhmut itself, northeast of Bakhkmut near Soledar and Bakhmutske, and south of Bakhmut near Mykolaivka and Mayorsk.[36] A Russian source stated that Russian forces tried to advance in the areas of Ozeryanivka south of Bakhmut and Kamianka, southeast of Bakhmut on the N20 highway.[37] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian ground assault west of Avdiivka near Pervomaiske.[38] A Russian source claimed that Russian forces conducted ground assaults in the directions of Nevelske and Pervomaiske.[39] The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed that Russian forces repelled three Ukrainian tactical company groups near Mykilske, Novomayorske, and Stepne in western Donetsk Oblast.[40]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued routine artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole, and in Dnipropetrovsk, Mykolaiv, and Odesa oblasts on October 10. Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck Zaporizhia City, Mykolaiv City, Kryvyi Rih, Dnipro City, and unspecified locations in Odesa Oblast.[41] Ukrainian sources also stated that Russian forces fired on Kutsurub Hromada, Mykolaiv Oblast, from positions on the Kinburn Spit in Mykolaiv Oblast.[42]
Russian sources reported explosions in Dzhankoy, Crimea, on October 11. A Russian milblogger reported that the explosion occurred at a rail junction between the Kherson-Kerch and Kharkiv-Sevastopol rail lines but did not identify a cause.[43] The source noted that the only logistics route through Crimea that supplies Russian forces in southern Ukraine runs through Dzhankoy.[44] Russian news outlet Baza reported that a Russian tank accidentally fired while undergoing repairs, striking a house in Dzhankoy and wounding a child.[45] The reporting and claims over this incident indicate Russian panic over losing further logistics capabilities in Crimea following the Kerch Strait Bridge explosion.
Russian occupation authorities intensified efforts to strengthen their physical control over the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) in occupied Enerhodar, likely to set conditions to take control over ZNPP operations and integrate the ZNPP into the Russian power grid. Ukrainian nuclear agency Energoatom reported that Russian occupation authorities kidnapped and tortured the ZNPP’s Deputy General Director Valeriy Martynyuk on October 10 and continue to hold Martynyuk in an unknown location.[46] Energoatom stated that Russian occupation authorities are torturing Martynyuk to obtain personal information about ZNPP personnel to force them into working for Russian nuclear agency Rosatom instead.[47] Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) stated that occupation authorities are forcing ZNPP personnel to sign contracts with Rosatom and use Russian passports for official work.[48] Energoatom stated that Russian authorities have begun transporting beds, mattresses, heaters, and other household items to the ZNPP.[49] Energoatom stated that Russian authorities are either trying to establish a winter base at the ZNPP or intend to take Ukrainian ZNPP personnel hostage as they did during the occupation of the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant in February and March 2022.[50] Zaporizhia Occupation Administration Council Member Vladimir Rogov stated that the ZNPP has been reconnected to external power lines but that it is too early to talk about restarting the reactors.[51]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
The Russian military command continues to deploy newly mobilized servicemen without combat training to frontlines in eastern and southern Ukraine. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that “thousands” of mobilized men are arriving in Luhansk Oblast but noted that only the first groups of these servicemen have any type of military experience.[52] A Ukrainian Telegram channel uploaded a video of Russian mobilized men complaining about their deployment to Svatove from Moscow Oblast only 11 days after being drafted and despite their minimal or nonexistent military experience.[53] Russian forces are also training mobilized men in occupied Ukrainian regions. A member of the Zaporizhia Oblast occupation administration, Vladimir Rogov, stated that Russian mobilized personnel are undergoing training in the suburbs of Melitopol.[54] Footage also shows mobilized personnel reportedly training in occupied Luhansk Oblast.[55] Mariupol Mayor’s Advisor Petro Andryushenko noted that the arrival of Russian military equipment in the direction of Manhush west of Mariupol, stating that Russian forces may be establishing a training center for the mobilized in the settlement.[56] The Ukrainian General Staff emphasized that the deployment of mobilized Russians to Ukraine will not undermine Ukrainian forces’ counteroffensives.[57]
Russian federal subjects are announcing new phases of mobilization in select regions. Rostov Oblast Governor Vasiliy Golubev noted stated that the oblast “received a new mobilization task” and stated that local enlistment commissions began the implementation of an unspecified mobilization order.[58] Voronezh Oblast Governor Alexander Gusyev noted that mobilization activities will continue past October 10.[59] It is unclear if these oblasts are launching a second mobilization wave or are following an entirely new mobilization order. It is possible that these oblasts could have failed to meet an initial mobilization quota and must extend their mobilization periods, a practice previously seen during the recruitment of volunteer battalions throughout the summer. A Russian milblogger even noted that Rostov and Kursk oblasts, despite having reported the completion of their mobilization orders, might need to continue their mobilization campaigns past the initial deadline to achieve original mobilization quotas.[60]
Russian officials are continuing to use mobilization as a form of punishment against individuals who refuse the Kremlin’s mobilization orders. Governor of Magadan Oblast Sergey Nosov in a leaked conversation with subordinates demanded that they directly issue a mobilization order to the manager of the gold mining company for refusing to administer mobilization notices to his employees.[61] An unnamed business owner told _RFE/RL_ that local officials are extorting businessmen for 10 percent of their employees in exchange for exempting firms’ top employees from mobilization.[62] The Kremlin has also mandated all Russian business owners to provide information regarding their employees to local military enlistment centers, and local officials may use these lists to coercively mobilize more men.[63] Local officials may use the guise of mobilization to demand bribes from business owners; Ukrainian and Russian sources have reported the emergence of such organized corruption schemes within the Russian defense sector.[64]
Russian enlistment officers continued to issue wrongful mobilization summonses and are increasingly attempting to coerce men to accept these notices. Russian authorities are issuing mobilization notices to deceased persons. St. Peterburg-based outlet _Fontanka_ reported that employees of housing maintenance offices left mobilization notices on the doors of men who have been dead for years.[65] _RFE/RL_ shared accounts of wrongfully mobilized men who had stated that enlistment officers, despite knowing of their wrongful mobilization, attempted to physically and mentally coerce men into accepting their summons.[66] Russian enlistment centers are likely continuing to mobilize exempt men to meet previously established mobilization quotas despite the Kremlin’s claims that it is addressing the issue of wrongful mobilization.
Some Russians continued to express resistance to mobilization throughout Russia. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that over a hundred mobilized men at an unspecified Eastern Military District training ground refuse to comply with command orders and are not leaving their barracks in protest of poor living and sanitary conditions.[67] A Russian man attempted to commit arson against a military recruitment center in Ryazan Oblast, and unknown perpetrators threw Molotov cocktails at a city hall in Chelyabinsk Oblast.[68]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Russian and occupation administration officials continue to conduct filtration activities in Russian-occupied territories on October 11. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian forces are detaining the family members and friends of Ukrainian military and law enforcement personnel in Starobilsk, Luhansk Oblast.[69] Mariupol City Advisor Petro Andryushenko claimed on October 11 that the Russian Federal Security Service and the Russian investigative committee have established a filtration center at the Central District Police Department in Mariupol, Donetsk Oblast.[70] Andryushenko also claimed that Russian authorities established a torture chamber at the filtration facility where FSB personnel coerce confessions from detainees.[71] Kharkiv Oblast Head Oleh Synehubov reported on October 11 that 37 children illegally taken from Kharkiv Oblast by Russian and occupation administration officials rejoined their parents in Zakarpattia Oblast.[72] Russian and occupation administration officials continue to remove Ukrainian children from Russian-occupied territories. The Head of the Kherson occupation administration Vladimir Saldo is currently implementing a program to take up to 40,000 children and adults from Kherson Oblast to Russian-occupied Crimea and the Russian Federation.[73] Russian and occupation administration officials will likely intensify filtration activities as Ukrainian counteroffensives progress.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Here we go, Looks like someone is so sure that Ukraine is gonna get toasted. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580363569887342595

Remember what the NATO Secretary General stated yesterday. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579868976938876930

You're getting it now? This has been a war between Russia vs NATO, where the Ukrainians provided the cannon fodder for NATO.

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## Shawnee

Ukraine fighter crashes whiles trying to hit an Iranian drone

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580320558918488066

They're using air-to-air missiles to destroy Shaheed-136 drones that costs $20,000 USD a piece. 
Guess what, the plane crashed. 😲


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580312547005460480

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580318725806641152


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580360144881217537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580336090552016896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580329360753831939

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## Shawnee

What a misery
Losing a fighter while chasing a cheap Shahed drone.

Ukrainians are great people but Zely is retarded.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580327117052485634
The entire NATO's top of the art air defense systems have been sent to Ukraine to fight the $20,000 Iranian-made Shaeed-136 drones. The Western alliance is panicking. These drones are taking down the existing air defenses and muh HIMARS rocker system as well in Ukraine. ROFL

This is the new panic!  👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580212765536374784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580339199936368640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579870640332746752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580303446275633152

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## Shawnee

Russia's Iran-Made Drones 'Failing' and Not Meeting Expectations: Pentagon


Iranian drones have suffered "numerous failures on the battleground" in Ukraine, according to a top U.S. official.




www.google.com











When you pay for an article you get slammed in the face the next day.

Welcome to the mullah land

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## Hassan Al-Somal

All of the new sons born this year and subsequent years should be named Shaheed 136.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580293031848132608


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## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> Too humane? Now it looks like too incapable. I analogized the Russian military to that of a mechanic whose skills consists of only oil change or scrap the motor, and nothing in the middle. Poutine tried the conventional path and is failing, that leave the nuclear option or like I said -- scrap the motor. It seems like the Russian military does not know how to do anything in-between. So for Taiwan, given there is a large body of water which is more difficult than land to traverse, the Parade Line Army (PLA) is having second thoughts.


Let's see if I am wrong. They already annexed the 4 regions, my prediction is the same with Elon Musk. Lol

As for Taiwan, if you want to destroy the plant, you must destroy until the roots.

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## Shawnee

Stay tuned for this headline tomorrow:

*150 Iranian drone instructors killed in Kherson after Himars strike.*

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## Beast

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580320558918488066
> 
> They're using air-to-air missiles to destroy Shaheed-136 drones that costs $20,000 USD a piece.
> Guess what, the plane crashed. 😲
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580312547005460480


I guess no western media will pick up this news and report it. What a comedy from Ukraine AF.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580329852686995456
GMLRS-ER rockets to begin production soon. They have twice the range of current HIMARS rockets.

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## Shawnee

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580327117052485634
> The entire NATO's top of the art air defense systems have been sent to Ukraine to fight the $20,000 Iranian-made Shaeed-136 drones. The Western alliance is panicking. These drones are taking down the existing air defenses and muh HIMARS rocker system as well in Ukraine. ROFL
> 
> This is the new panic!  👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580212765536374784
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580339199936368640
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579870640332746752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580303446275633152



@gambit
Re: Our discussion 2 years ago

Feel the difference in real life. Air Force is not air power.

and No
You cannot make an anecdote from the Vietnam war and say F35 is different. Russian tech stinks.


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## Beast

RoadAmerica said:


> Except China is still locked down, the rest of the world isn’t


But but... China don't have 580000 or a million death from covids. I guess life is cheap in USA or India. 



Shawnee said:


> Russia's Iran-Made Drones 'Failing' and Not Meeting Expectations: Pentagon
> 
> 
> Iranian drones have suffered "numerous failures on the battleground" in Ukraine, according to a top U.S. official.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 886516
> 
> 
> When you pay for an article you get slammed in the face the next day.
> 
> Welcome to the mullah land
> 
> View attachment 886512


You will not be surprised news about Ukraine soldiers reach Moscow and successfully remove Putin from these western comedy media.


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## Cash GK

925boy said:


> All for what? NATO aspirations? NATO aspirations vs lost territory + lost economy + lost trade + lost resources + lost lives + lost opportunity + lost future.
> 
> Ukrainian govt is surely stupid, but US chose it because US govt loves yes yes puppets, so the more of a puppet the country is, the more US "loves" them.
> 
> Ukraine will get fukd for foreseeable future and Russia and NATO will walk away and recover. And no fake professor Jhungary, Ukraine WONT join NATO ever. screenshot this


Many people fail to realize. Ukraine is under attack. Who want to take risk to have in atomic. Yes we all know nato and usa are giving covered support which isnot covered anymore they are giving weapons openly to Ukrainen but they don't realize most those weapons will be Smuggled back to Europe and black market. This is what happened in Afghanistan. Most of those weapons were Smuggled here n there. I am afraid when weapons fall in wrong hands and big Disaster can be happened. We have witnessed those thing 90z against soviet



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Here we go, Looks like someone is so sure that Ukraine is gonna get toasted. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580363569887342595
> 
> Remember what the NATO Secretary General stated yesterday. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579868976938876930
> 
> You're getting it now? This has been a war between Russia vs NATO, where the Ukrainians provided the cannon fodder for NATO.


This man is war monger monster his greed to extend nato boundaries is bringing near to human end.

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## The SC

The cause of the war between Russia 🇷🇺 and Ukraine 🇺🇦

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580267574503227392

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## dbc

Shawnee said:


> @gambit
> Re: Our discussion 2 years ago
> 
> Feel the difference in real life. Air Force is not air power.
> 
> and No
> You cannot make an anecdote from the Vietnam war and say F35 is different. Russian tech stinks.



I know you Iranians love your little flying mopeds but if you think these mopeds are going to win a war you need to have your head examined.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> We don't need the West bogus food aid.



Really ?


This is what you come up when you search " Somalia " in google , this is just o few a of the results from last week :

This one is 10 hours ago :














'So Many Children Dying': Somalia Drought Brings Famine Near


Rare famine declaration could be made within weeks




www.voanews.com













Somalia | Drought & humanitarian support | British Red Cross


After years of drought in Somalia, over 7 million people can't find enough food. The Red Cross is supporting with vital aid.




www.redcross.org.uk













Dispatches from Somalia: farmers and families describe struggle as drought deepens


Reporters from Bilan, an all-female media team based in Mogadishu, visited different areas of Somalia to find out how the crisis has hit communities




www.theguardian.com













Help Fight Hunger in Somalia | Caritas Australia


Many of the most vulnerable in Somalia are facing hunger and even starvation after another year of drought, low rainfall and failed crops.




www.caritas.org.au






You should not lie , and you deffenitly should not bite the hand that feeds you .

~

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## Reashot Xigwin

Don't ask how the FSB get their hands on the bus x-ray. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580090942614560769


sammuel said:


> Really ?
> 
> 
> This is what you come up when you search " Somalia " in google :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'So Many Children Dying': Somalia Drought Brings Famine Near
> 
> 
> Rare famine declaration could be made within weeks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somalia | Drought & humanitarian support | British Red Cross
> 
> 
> After years of drought in Somalia, over 7 million people can't find enough food. The Red Cross is supporting with vital aid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.redcross.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dispatches from Somalia: farmers and families describe struggle as drought deepens
> 
> 
> Reporters from Bilan, an all-female media team based in Mogadishu, visited different areas of Somalia to find out how the crisis has hit communities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Help Fight Hunger in Somalia | Caritas Australia
> 
> 
> Many of the most vulnerable in Somalia are facing hunger and even starvation after another year of drought, low rainfall and failed crops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.caritas.org.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should not lie , and you deffenitly should not bite the hand that feeds you .
> 
> ~


Fun fact: Russia & China are nothing without the West. They are the most ungrateful nation on the face of the planet & history. The West has done nothing but to help them & they spit on them because BS reasons.

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## sammuel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580385992791334912


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## aviator_fan

Paul2 said:


> You cannot have low tax is you aren't a martial society. You cannot be a martial society without armed freemen. You cannot have armed freemen without sharing power with them.
> 
> Westernization as a phenomenon is entirely thanks to Europe experiencing an explosion of civilian militancy circa 1810-1830.
> 
> Now Westerners have reverted back to sheeple, and their societies are declining because of that. You can have a Kingdom, a Sheikhdom, an Emirate, but never a _*Serf*_-dom. Slaves can't rule not because of them having no rights, but because they are not ready to _ fight_ for those rights.
> 
> Now, the West is a lot of people who don't want to pay high taxes for a professional army, while wanting somebody else to protect them from Putins, and such.


You were exactly right till March of this year. As an example, German population had considered the arms industry to be the equivalent of a vice (tobacco) like business and pressuring banks not to provide any financial assistance (letters of credit, loans) to arms manufacturers. 

This is how bad the lack of support for armed forces was in some countries. By not physically being overt Putin had weakened Europe more than what any other tactic. That of course does not hold true any more

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## sammuel

~

If you go to twitter and enlarge the top view picture of the bridge , sure does not look like the rail bridge was reopened , as the Russians tried to claim , or that they made any significant progress in the repairs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580329998027984897
~


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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> Europeans worked so hard to throw jews out of Europe , then you think they allow them come back


where do you guys this sh**. I am not jewish or Israeli (common accusation from those that are out of arguments). This makes no sense. About 85% of Jewish population is split between Israel and US.

Most of the rest of it is in advanced countries spread around Europe. Ukraine's population is only 0.2 % jewish so completely insignificant.

Total number of Jews around the world is 14M and change with most living in rich countries. WTF do you think anybody would want to Ukraine. 14M makes it slightly more than population of Tehran, less than Karachi.

I got news for you, there are very few Jews and almost nobody wants to leave the country they are in.



Viet said:


> Abusing ex man can become very violent sometimes he can turn a terrorist. See Putin. He is very angry because ex wife Ukraine runs into the arms of a richer man. Putin the loser.
> Yes Xi shares the same fate he cries all days after his ex spouse Taiwan.


To take the abusive relationship further: 'I only hit you harder because when I slap you less you resist'.

Btw for US this ex-spouse used to be Cuba


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## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> The man questions my iq. But the idiot does not know Chachan forces were Fighting in Syria.. usa and Isreal lost Syrian war in hands of Russian watch the video now I have doubt on your mental health. Do you know what is going on outside of your door. I am sure you have no idea . And you talk on international politics lol.Are you sure you Pakistani? As i know many people use Pakistani flags to run their lie in Pakistan. By the way I did not read your idiotic post as I did not want to waste my time.. I dont blame west for every crime budy. Infact I have reasonable good friend who are western. west is very Civilized society. But I am talking about western establecimiento they love blood. Common people in europ They nice people but they been poison by evil media.. But you can not deny the fact west has given us world war1 n 2 plus countless wars in last 100 years... when I give you reference of historical events. It mean everything has Connection to one another. You can not run from your shadow. As we know Russian shoulders are still in Syria usa want to have shoulders in Ukraine. Similar to Cuban Missile crisis. When Americans installed weapons in turkey and soviet installed weapons in Cuba. Isreal is very important for usa to control Arabs. Next move usa will make to destabilize Saudi Arabia though Israel if they refused to listen American demands. Which is Isreal's solo purpose to be in Arabs land. It is complete complex chass game. You need to have brain to understand this shit. I came to know that you have brain size of chicken 🐔. Lol


I don't question your IQ because its zero. You have no idea that Afghanistan is a land locked country, so I won't insult Pakistan by asking you are you in Pakistan. You can't even read the map you yourself posted and highlighted the border. 

And yes I have been on Pakistan side to see the millions of refugees sent over and a whole Klashnikov culture that has not gone away. To this your point is Russia should be justified in having access to a warm water port, despite this overflow of refugees. 

As for Israel/Syria: yes those people fought. But what did it matter. They fought a western Syria movement that was organic with no support. Any idiot would have prevailed over them. It changed no equation on Israel thats as powerful as it was and became even bolder: it moved its capital and its relentless expansion into occupied territories.

And it did it with full recognition from the Arabs you are such a big fan of. I see your bitterness for the west, but part of it stems from not having visited. The most you have gone is to the UAE and those b*(*Ds are in bed with Israel just like the west that you dislike.

And yes, pls stop posting stupid maps and with bad logic and nobody will call you out.



Ali_Baba said:


> *Ukraine’s armed forces on Wednesday downed four Russian helicopters*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces 'shoot down four Russian helicopters in 18 minutes'
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s armed forces on Wednesday downed four Russian helicopters in 18 minutes in the south of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly 6 !!


I think Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen would say that the really good helicopters are not being used and they were supplied by China and they are waiting to use them later in the war. Now they just use the ones that can be lost 4-6 at a time. But the ones they are NOT using can never be shotdown because they are made in China



Viet said:


> Liberation of 10 houses? Wow not bad, great success for Russia military. After taking over they probably liberated washing machines, television sets from the houses.


Go Wagner: worth every penny. Frankly this may be more the convicts accomplishment.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Drones are cheap and manufactured dozens a day. A good way to deplete surface to air missiles which are expensive and slow to manufacture.


Not as fast as how Russia is depleting its cruise missiles to have resorted to S300s (and even removing batteries from Syria)

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## gambit

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This has been a war between Russia vs NATO, where the Ukrainians provided the cannon fodder for NATO.


You need to stop with this insult. No one buys it.

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## aviator_fan

ZeGerman said:


> In times of strife you will know who your friends are.
> 
> I do hope we keep a list of whom stabbed us in the back on this. Saudis as nr1.


For Saudis, I understand what they did and why they did it even though other Gulf countries did not want to cut production.

Ultimately they want to maximize the oil revenue after 7 years of low prices and this is the last surge of oil prices as on-going shift from hydrocarbon.

I don't agree with Saudis but I know why they did it. I don't agree because it makes the poorest hurt the most (oil high and so is every other input down to food).

What they did not factor in is they are trying to diversify their economy and want to court foreign capital. The entire NOEM project is an example. Then the question is, whose foreign capital are they going to attract? Russians that could move their capital already did to UAE.

US and European capital is whats going to be at risk



Dalit said:


> Pakistan is nowhere. Irrelivant. It has an army that calls the shots, but sells its country to the highest bidder. The Americans have always been the highest bidder. Hence, the Pak army is indebted to the US.
> 
> In the Ukraine war Pakistan has once again played the wrong cards. It has made an enemy out of Russia. Pakistani army is appeasing the Americans. The Americans will ditch Pakistan high and dry like they always have.


The question is not intended to dispute what you are using but can you clarify what you mean (as in specific actions) Pakistan played the wrong card, vs. play no card. 

The army is a factor but Pakistan has another weakness: a large part of its economy is tied to foreign remittances. US/UK/European remittances are higher than Saudi Arabia. There is virtually nothing coming from Russia. This does not factor overtly in Army's decision but its tough to cut that supply line when nothing is coming from Russia

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## aviator_fan

ZeGerman said:


> Very well explained. The initial military goals were reached with immense display of power. It is in the aftermath, of adding/overreaching with geopolitical goals where Nato/USA had often miscalculated.
> 
> It is at “winning hearts and minds”, nation building, and fostering the right alliances where they failed. And we see the results where taliban returns in power, syria falls to assad/russia, Libya is a mess, and iraq under heavy iranian influence.


Also, US (as wrong as those actions were), never failed in those 3 countries to the point to threaten nuclear weapons. Thats ultimately what makes Putin look weak (and is weak): when you have to take on a country 1/5th your size and threaten nukes. Nation building was a dumb neo-con goal but never were nukes on the table

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## kingQamaR

Russia destroys itself with its unprovoked war in Ukraine. Blames the West for its military failure. Wants to nuke everyone

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## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> S
> 
> Ukrainens are fools. This is what happened when you choose a emotional idiot as your leader. He was comedian and made his country a joke. If I was president of Ukraine I could have safe my country my history my infrastructure with one line. (We will stay neutral). We not going to join any organizations. They were fool by usa. Infact this time there is bigger fool then Ukrainens. It is Europe. They have to look after 5 millions refuses and plus experience gas for the sake of usa wishes


Their entire male population mobilized and stayed in Ukraine. Its not the comedian, its their dignity.

When Putin mobilized 300K, 300K men also left. There is the difference



Shawnee said:


> Ukraine fighter crashes whiles trying to hit an Iranian drone


Video? Source? Or we believe it because you typed it?

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## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580320558918488066
> 
> They're using air-to-air missiles to destroy Shaheed-136 drones that costs $20,000 USD a piece.
> Guess what, the plane crashed. 😲
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580312547005460480



Sounds like Belarus is a legit HIMARS target now

Putin wants to open a Second Front from Belarus in order to distract Ukraine from winning the First Front. The Belarussians are too dumb to realize that they will be used as cannon fodder for the Ukrainians by Putin;

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## aviator_fan

For the company making the ultimate next generation missile (S400) and I say this sarcastically, they have to source basic computer network package to run its office from the US company. This is just to run the business and its operation.

Two observations: 

1. this is a top tier advanced company that can't gets its business done without working around export controls of basic stuff.
2. They got away with it when the sanctions were soft: this is what I mean that Putin is going to move the clock back on Russian productivity by 20 years.

Special Report-How a US firm supplied networking technology to maker of feared Russian missiles​





FILE PHOTO: Victory Day Parade in Moscow
Aram Roston and David Gauthier-Villars
Wed, October 12, 2022 at 10:46 AM·13 min read


(publishes to additional subscribers)
By Aram Roston and David Gauthier-Villars
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Since Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, American companies have been prohibited from dealing with MMZ Avangard, a state-owned firm that makes missiles for one of Russia's most sophisticated weapons, the S-400 air-defense system.
In a measure of Western concern about the S-400, the United States ejected Turkey, a NATO member, from a joint fighter jet program in 2019 after Ankara took delivery of the Russian system.
But even as the United States was taking actions to blunt MMZ Avangard's business, a publicly traded American technology company, Extreme Networks, was providing MMZ Avangard with computer networking equipment for its office IT systems, according to emails and other business records seen by Reuters, as well as interviews with people familiar with the matter.
 






In a statement to Reuters, Extreme said that based on information provided by the news agency it believed equipment "may have" been sold to MMZ Avangard using a surrogate buyer. Extreme said the equipment was sold without its knowledge. It added, without providing evidence, that an intermediary in Russia was "complicit" in supplying its products via a front company to "bad actors." Extreme said it is reporting its findings of these potential sales to U.S. authorities.
Ukraine has accused Russia of deploying missiles made by MMZ Avangard against ground targets since Russia launched what it terms its "special operation" on Feb. 24. Ukrainian authorities said MMZ Avangard missiles killed at least thirty civilians in a gruesome attack against a convoy on the edge of the southern city of Zaporizhzhia last month. Neither Kremlin officials nor MMZ Avangard responded to questions for this article. MMZ Avangard's parent, Almaz-Antey, also didn't comment.
Between 2017 and 2021, MMZ Avangard obtained over half a million dollars' worth of Extreme equipment for its IT systems, according to the business records reviewed by Reuters and the people familiar with the matter. The products included high-speed switches, an essential building block of corporate IT networks, and software.
The records also show that the deals went through a seemingly innocuous corporation near Moscow, and despite two Extreme officials raising concerns, the sales went forward.
That a Russian military company, identified as a threat by Washington, continued to acquire U.S. computer hardware is a case study in how Western countries may have overestimated their ability to choke the Russian economy with export bans and trade sanctions. It also highlights how dependent Russia's military machine is on U.S. high-tech equipment.
 
Advertisement





In April, six weeks after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, an Extreme employee filed an internal complaint, seen by Reuters, alleging that the company was selling to various military manufacturers in Russia. "Extreme equipment is used on Russian warships," the complaint said, "in communications systems."
Extreme said in its statement that the allegations were brought by a disgruntled employee. An investigation by the firm had found nothing to corroborate any of the claims until Reuters brought "new facts" to the company's attention this month. The company said it ceased operations in Russia in March, adding that it subsequently launched a process to dismiss the disgruntled employee for poor performance. It said it has no records of sales involving Russian warships.
Extreme, which trades on the NASDAQ exchange and is headquartered in Morrisville, North Carolina, has earned a solid reputation in the United States and is an official partner of the National Football League. The NFL declined to comment for this article.
A Reuters investigation in August found that while the United States and allies banned high-tech exports to Russia to try to cripple its defense industry, and many tech companies announced that they had halted exports to Russia, the flow of Western brand-name computer parts to Russian clients hasn't stopped.
This account of how Extreme supplied MMZ Avangard and at least two other Russian military companies is based on interviews with three people familiar with the shipments as well as a review by Reuters of documents spanning five years to 2021. The documents include sales records and email exchanges between Extreme employees, customers and distributors. The shipments are reported here for the first time.
 
Advertisement





The U.S. Department of Commerce, which administers export restrictions, declined to comment for this story.
"IT WAS NECESSARY TO USE COVER"
Russian companies, including those in the military sector, have virtually no choice but to buy foreign equipment to build the computer networks necessary for modern-day business. Russia has very limited domestic production of networking equipment.
Founded in 1996, Extreme is a junior player in the computer networking industry. Last year, it posted revenue of $1.1 billion, compared with $50 billion for Cisco Systems.
Still, the smaller company is a "meaningful competitor," according to Alex Henderson, a network and security analyst at Needham and Company in New York. The U.S. military as well as NASA use Extreme hardware and support, according to contracting records, and the company has built up a substantial marketing profile.
 






In Russia, as well, Extreme lists prestigious customers, such as the Ministry of Health, the federal pension fund and Lomonosov Moscow State University.
But according to documents seen by Reuters, other buyers of Extreme equipment included not just MMZ Avangard but a major Russian military shipbuilding company and a high-tech defense electronics manufacturer.
One of the documents shows that in the four years ending 2020, Russian customers purchased $41.5 million worth of equipment. Reuters couldn't determine Extreme's total sales to sanctioned or military firms because it wasn't clear if transactions other than those involving MMZ Avangard had been recorded under cover names.
In its statement to Reuters, Extreme said it doesn't report country specific revenue.
In Russia, Extreme maintained contacts with its customers in order to help design complex networks that expand over time, according to two of the people familiar with the matter. Each customer or potential buyer had its own account manager at the company and was listed on internal sales records. Actual sales, though, were done through authorized intermediaries.
 






Extreme, in its statement to Reuters, said it rarely provided direct installation services. It said it had no such contracts with DEMZ or MMZ Avangard.
In its statement, Extreme said it has a "firm policy" not to work with sanctioned entities, but added it isn't always notified of the end customer, especially when its products are sold through so-called "stocking" distributors that hold an inventory.
Extreme named one of those distributors as RRC and said it believed RRC was "complicit" in the scheme to supply MMZ Avangard. RRC and its Cyprus parent, BD Enterprise Networking didn't respond to messages from Reuters seeking comment.
For Russian military companies, Extreme equipment had a strong selling point, the three people familiar with the shipments said: Unlike larger rivals, Extreme doesn't require service subscriptions and frequent software updates. "It is absolutely autonomous," one of the people said of the equipment. "It works without a license and you don't even need to be connected to the internet." This means, another person said, that "you don't need to fear that your system will go dark because someone in the U.S. decided to disconnect you."
Extreme said that the "autonomous model" is not unique to the company, but acknowledged it has become relatively rare.
 






It was no secret in Russia that MMZ Avangard used Extreme equipment. In late 2019, the missile manufacturer issued a tender through Russia's online public procurement platform, saying it needed spare parts for the Extreme computer networks it possessed. Extreme didn't dispute this but said it wouldn't necessarily be aware of such a tender.
A few months before, in the summer of 2019, an intermediary had contacted Extreme's representative office in Russia, asking for advice on a network upgrade for the missile company, the documents show. "We are working on a solution for the customer, MMZ Avangard," an employee of the intermediary wrote in a June 28, 2019, email to an Extreme system engineer. "I was told that I could seek your help."
As soon as its equipment arrived in Moscow, Extreme dispatched a staff engineer to MMZ Avangard's offices to help ensure a smooth installation, one of the people familiar with the shipments said.
In its statement to Reuters, Extreme said it had no records of an Extreme employee installing equipment at MMZ Avangard.
When it came to processing MMZ Avangard's purchasing orders, the missile maker's name didn't appear on Extreme's books. Instead, Extreme's Moscow employees recorded the orders as having been placed by a company called OOO DEMZ, according to emails and sales records, as well as three people familiar with the matter.
 
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"It was necessary to use a cover because the Russian company is blacklisted in the U.S.," one of the people familiar with the shipments said. It has been illegal for U.S. companies to do business with MMZ Avangard since July 2014, when the U.S. Treasury Department listed its parent company, Almaz-Antey, as a "blocked" entity. The Treasury declined to comment for this story.
MMZ Avangard began buying products from Extreme in December 2017 and was disguised under the DEMZ cover in Extreme business records from that date, according to emails and other documents seen by Reuters. The most recent transaction using the DEMZ cover that Reuters identified was in September 2021. In total, the records show that Extreme shipped goods worth about $645,000 in this way during that period.
Extreme, in its statement, said it now believes that its equipment may have been acquired through a "front company." Extreme confirmed that the DEMZ account listed product purchases for approximately $645,000.
DEMZ is a small company based in Dmitrov, a city 50 miles north of Moscow. Russian corporate records list Vladimir Markov as its general director. Reached by phone, Markov said that DEMZ, which made tools for railcar maintenance, ceased all operations in 2016. The executive said he had never heard of Extreme or of DEMZ buying Extreme equipment for itself or on behalf of others.
The apparent ruse was a shallow one. Purported executives for DEMZ, listed in the Extreme customer records seen by Reuters, were actually employees of the missile maker who had provided their MMZ Avangard email addresses. They even included the Avangard email addresses when they applied for access to an Extreme customer service portal. One of these people declined to comment. The other couldn't be reached. Some of the documents also listed mmza.ru - MMZ Avangard's domain name - as DEMZ's purported web address.
 






On the last day of 2019, as a "DEMZ" order was winding through Extreme's approval system, an Extreme sales manager working in North Carolina emailed RRC, the Russian distributor, with a question about the domain name: "Can you tell me what the relationship is between DEMZ and mmza.ru?" An employee of the distributor responded that mmza.ru was "the customer's" domain. The employee didn't elaborate. A subsequent message indicates that the sale went through.
Extreme, in its statement, did not address questions about MMZ Avangard staff registering for access to online support, and an Extreme sales manager raising questions about the web domain.
Nearly a year later, dealing with another set of "DEMZ" orders, an employee from Extreme's in-house compliance desk in Ireland spotted the mmza.ru domain in the sales paperwork and researched it. "This link," the compliance team employee said in a Nov. 11, 2020, email, "goes directly to https://mmzavangard.ru/ which is a defense contractor seemingly [sic] to specialize in ground to air missile systems, we need to further review before we can make a decision."
Extreme, in its statement, also did not address questions about this email.
"GOOD NEWS"
 






The Extreme compliance employee instructed the Russia office to have "DEMZ," the purported customer, fill out a form to certify there was no military end-user, that the equipment would not be resold for any military purpose, and that it would not be transferred to any sanctioned company.
Less than a week after the message from the Extreme compliance employee, a two-page letter seen by Reuters attested that the end-user was not sanctioned, and would not use Extreme's equipment in a way banned by U.S. law. Bearing an illegible signature and a blue "DEMZ" stamp, the document was sent to Extreme's compliance desk, according to one of the people familiar with the matter.
DEMZ's business, according to the purported self-declaration, had nothing to do with sophisticated missiles. Rather it was "components for the Metalworking of country houses." DEMZ never made such components and was out of business at the time of the letter, according to former director general Markov.
"Just heard back from our supply team for the DEMZ orders," emailed the North Carolina manager on Nov. 25 "with some good news."
The sales could go through.
"Thank you," Extreme's Vienna-based regional director for Northern and Eastern Europe wrote.
U.S. export control specialists told Reuters self-declarations can be useful in determining whether a client is legitimate. However, upon coming across a red flag, "you stop or put on hold the transaction," said James Fuller, a former special agent with the U.S. Department of Commerce. "You don't offer an avenue to provide more false information, or suggest some kind of workaround."
Extreme in its statement to Reuters confirmed that its internal compliance officer had requested and received the self-declaration. The company added that it has "other screening processes to check for red flags."

Useless article, surprised Reuters put its name against it. Bold assertion but just a sentence with no basis. This assertion makes me feel like I am reading something from Tass.
​Russia has depleted large part of precision ammunition - NATO official​By Reuters Staff
1 Min Read


FILE PHOTO: A NATO flag is seen at the Alliance headquarters ahead of a NATO Defence Ministers meeting, in Brussels, Belgium, October 21, 2021. REUTERS/Pascal Rossignol
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Russia has depleted a significant proportion of its precision-guided ammunition in its invasion of Ukraine and its industry cannot produce all kinds of ammunition and weapon systems due to Western sanctions, a senior NATO official said on Wednesday.

The official said he did not know how long it would take for Russia to mobilise the 300,000 troops Moscow is aiming for, and suggested it could take a few months.

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## Soldier35

A serviceman of the Russian Airborne Forces spoke about the episode of the battle with the liquidation of the tank breakthrough of the Ukrainian army. As reported, 6 tanks and more than 10 units of other armored and automotive vehicles were destroyed.






The Russian crew of the T-72B3 tank of the 2016 model, inspected the wrecked foreign-made T-72 tank of Ukraine.






The newest Russian battle tank T-14 "Armata" was noticed at the training ground of the Kazan Tank Command School. There has been unconfirmed information that the Russian army may use about nine T-14 Armata tanks in Ukraine to test their combat systems in real combat. To date, it is not known exactly how many T-14 Armata tanks the Russian army has, according to some sources, from 21 to 132, judging by the contracts and agreements that were reported in the media.






The FV104 Samaritan armored personnel carrier appeared in the Ukrainian army, this is an armored ambulance. The armored car was developed 46 years ago in England and is considered rare, only 100 pieces were produced. The transporter was developed on the basis of the British FV101 Scorpion tank and has a crew of 2 people. The vehicle can transport 4 wounded on stretchers and 2 medics. The vehicle has no weapons. The 190 horsepower engine is installed in the front right side of the hull. The maximum speed on the highway is 72 km / h, the cruising range is 480 km.


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## Viet

Cash GK said:


> You are very wrong. Chinese and Indians buying the oil very cheap. 2.9 billions people buying their oil and gass. These two countries will send cheap products in market and otherside europ is buying expensive gass from its best friend usa. Eu Manufacturing costs is going up. In China and India manufacturing cost is going down. Tell me whose economy is in good shape. Russians are getting money weapons from China india and iran along with their own tech. common man which world are you living...you live in Mars right? Europe alongside Ukrainen are the biggest losers. Usa selling weapons and gass. This statement is very strong
> View attachment 886469


You don’t understand. The oil price cap aims to reduce Russia incomes not incomes other countries. Money just goes to others people pockets. If China, India get richer while Russia poorer, then ok. Win win.
Russia needs oil tankers but it hasn’t little to none. Russia needs insurance but no insurance companies. Russia needs finance but it needs to sell oil to get the money first.
That’s Russia weak points where western oil cap will plug in.

Let’s say the oil cap is $50 per barrel, every transactions above the level will be forbidden. Russia won’t find banks, tankers, insurance companies to ship oil.


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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580295103088066560


lol , we don't recognize the voting
by the way let look at the other interesting voting to fight glorification of Nazism just happened one year ago, guess the one who said no are nazi countries ,the one who abstained nazi simpathizers




we again didn't recognize that voting


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## Oldman1

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Don't ask how the FSB get their hands on the bus x-ray.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580090942614560769


So they got an Xray of the truck with explosives but did nothing about it. It be almost like the TSA showing a Xray of a gun in a suitcase but didn't show it til after the shooting on a plane. Reminds me of that Sims 3 fiasco with that Nazi claim. When a commander ask to plant 3 SIM cards, not SIMS 3 games.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> lol , we don't recognize the voting
> by the way let look at the other interesting voting to fight glorification of Nazism just happened one year ago, guess the one who said no are nazi countries ,the one who abstained nazi simpathizers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we again didn't recognize that voting


Who is “we”?


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## Cash GK

Viet said:


> You don’t understand. The oil price cap aims to reduce Russia incomes not incomes other countries. Money just goes to others people pockets. If China, India get richer while Russia poorer, then ok. Win win.
> Russia needs oil tankers but it hasn’t little to none. Russia needs insurance but no insurance companies. Russia needs finance but it needs to sell oil to get the money first.
> That’s Russia weak points where western oil cap will plug in.
> 
> Let’s say the oil cap is $50 per barrel, every transactions above the level will be forbidden. Russia won’t find banks, tankers, insurance companies to ship oil.


Look what I am trying to say is.. their oil sale is almost the same they getting weapons along side money in exchange. Other side Ukraine are getting weapons and European tax payers are paying for them or they getting those weapons on loans.....


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## Oldman1

@jhungary 








Russia To 'Modernize' 800 Vintage T-62 Tanks Due To Ukraine Losses: Report


Russian plans to return hundreds of Cold War-era T-62s to service points to serious attrition, supply chain, and industrial capacity problems.




www.thedrive.com




I'm pretty shocked about the the Russians refurbishing T62s instead of T72s and T80s. It be like refurbishing M60s instead of the old Abrams. They are even asking for Belarus to provide T72s as well.

What do you think of the Russians making such defensive lines?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580011095573827585
Reminds me of what I mentioned about Ukraine should do that at the Ukrainian-Russian border.


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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> lol , we don't recognize the voting



Hack ,

Seems like you estimates on the repair bridge were over optimistic.

The rail bridge seems still closed 5 days after ( not repaired in a few hours as you estimated ) and they have not even began the highway repair.






~


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## Cash GK

Viet said:


> You don’t understand. The oil price cap aims to reduce Russia incomes not incomes other countries. Money just goes to others people pockets. If China, India get richer while Russia poorer, then ok. Win win.
> Russia needs oil tankers but it hasn’t little to none. Russia needs insurance but no insurance companies. Russia needs finance but it needs to sell oil to get the money first.
> That’s Russia weak points where western oil cap will plug in.
> 
> Let’s say the oil cap is $50 per barrel, every transactions above the level will be forbidden. Russia won’t find banks, tankers, insurance companies to ship oil.


Look you blocked their swit code they using Alternative Chinese system. They making payments with chines digital Cruncy. Second they dont need dolers to trade with India china and iran. Thry getting enough man power and expertise from Syria iran India and China.. this war is total Disastrous for Eu and Russia.. they have hell of gold Reserves more then any country on planet. Chines and Indians Consumer market is enough for them to fight this war for next 10 years..


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## Viet

Germany will deliver 3 more batteries next year.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579941918720798720

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia To 'Modernize' 800 Vintage T-62 Tanks Due To Ukraine Losses: Report
> 
> 
> Russian plans to return hundreds of Cold War-era T-62s to service points to serious attrition, supply chain, and industrial capacity problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty shocked about the the Russians refurbishing T62s instead of T72s and T80s. It be like refurbishing M60s instead of the old Abrams. They are even asking for Belarus to provide T72s as well.



Pretty sure they are low on T-72, it has been the work horse for Russian on this war. They only have some 2000 that's serviceable to begin with, all other T-72 they have or had are almost 50 years old. Would have been a big ask to refeb those even in peace time when nobody is sanctioning Russia it would become an impossible task to do

Older T-62 are simpler, those thing can work almost forever as long as you have engine oil in the engine. On the other hand, the simplification means there are not going to be effective in modern battlefield.



Oldman1 said:


> What do you think of the Russians making such defensive lines?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580011095573827585
> Reminds me of what I mentioned about Ukraine should do that at the Ukrainian-Russian border.


Not going to work.

They are doing effectively the same thing the Russian did in Donbas after 2014.

The reason why Ukraine did not attack is because they think they will piss off Russia if they do attack, but now Russia is already at war, any engineering vehicle can bridge those trenches in like 10 seconds, rendering it useless.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> The reason why Ukraine did not attack is because they think they will piss off Russia, if they do, but now Russia is already at war, any engineering vehicle can bridge those trench in like 10 seconds, rendering it useless.


Yeah figure a couple of bulldozers even civilian versions can do the job. Even against Luhansk and Donetsk in future when overcoming such obstacles.


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## Viet

Cash GK said:


> Look you blocked their swit code they using Alternative Chinese system. They making payments with chines digital Cruncy. Second they dont need dolers to trade with India china and iran. Thry getting enough man power and expertise from Syria iran India and China.. this war is total Disastrous for Eu and Russia.. they have hell of gold Reserves more then any country on planet. Chines and Indians Consumer market is enough for them to fight this war for next 10 years..


Even if Russia has mountains of gold, at some point treasure vaults will be emptied when all gold are sold. Banning Russia from swift and other sanctions are aimed to wreck Russia economy. you are right, certainly, the EU economy will be damaged too in the process. More EU sanctions coming. Price oil cap is just one of many still follow. that’s a war between Russia and EU. Let’s see who will survive, I bet on EU. You?


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## Cash GK

aviator_fan said:


> Their entire male population mobilized and stayed in Ukraine. Its not the comedian, its their dignity.
> 
> When Putin mobilized 300K, 300K men also left. There is the difference
> 
> 
> Video? Source? Or we believe it because you typed it?


I had shelter Ukrainian family at my home for 8 months. Spain and turkey is full of Ukrainens enjoying holidays. Which world you are living man. They living safe lives here getting free Immigration in Europe and enjoying befits. You must come down on mother earth as Mars is too high. Europe has to mange housing medical and schooling for those 5 millones people plus Europe has to look after their mental health. Big task..


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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Pretty sure they are low on T-72, it has been the work horse for Russian on this war. They only have some 2000 that's serviceable to begin with, all other T-72 they have or had are almost 50 years old. Would have been a big ask to refeb those even in peace time when nobody is sanctioning Russia it would become an impossible task to do
> 
> Older T-62 are simpler, those thing can work almost forever as long as you have engine oil in the engine. On the other hand, the simplification means there are not going to be effective in modern battlefield.
> 
> 
> Not going to work.
> 
> They are doing effective the same thing the Russian did in Donbas after 2014.
> 
> The reason why Ukraine did not attack is because they think they will piss off Russia, if they do, but now Russia is already at war, any engineering vehicle can bridge those trench in like 10 seconds, rendering it useless.


Imagine running out of T-72... It won't be long before they start (really) looting museum pieces for armor.

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## Cash GK

Viet said:


> Even if Russia has mountains of gold, at some point treasure vaults will be emptied when all gold are sold. Banning Russia from swift and other sanctions are aimed to wreck Russia economy. you are right, certainly, the EU economy will be damaged too in the process. More EU sanctions coming. Price oil cap is just one of many still follow. that’s a war between Russia and EU. Let’s see who will survive, I bet on EU. You?


Tell me what europ has oil or what. They need to mamge expenses as well. Germany increased 100 billions for weapons 200 billions subsidy in bills. How about weak economy in europ. They are many poor countries in Europe man bring your fuck8ng horses back on earth. People like you are so Arrogant and not realizing the Temperature. When you drive foolishly then Accidents happen.Europe as to mange housing medical and schooling for those 5 millones people plus Europe has to look after their mental health. Big task..


----------



## Oldman1

925boy said:


> but Ukranians are dying also on the frontlines, AT THE SAME or higher rate than Russian casaulties, so why arent you asking Ukraine not to send those soldiers there? Russian artillery MOWED DOWN soo many Ukranian soldiers during the attack on Kharkiv and Kherson, its not even funny, Ukraine lost low to mid xx,xxx of troops easily in those stupid pushes that didnt b ring much territoryt gfain and evaporated Ukraine's best soldiers...now just wait for those 300K+ soldiers arriving in Ukraine gradually due to mobilization.


What makes you think they are suffering at a higher rate than the Russians? You still believe that 6k only dead BS? Russia loses 6k but needs to mobilize 300k. Hundreds of thousands of Russians are fleeing because they want no part in the war where their chances of surviving is very low. You talk about mowing down so many Ukrainians yet you see Russia losing occupied territory in matter of weeks in Kharkiv and Kherson. And now the first group of so called 300k of questionable troops are surrendering or dying in droves. 



925boy said:


> NATO LOGIC- "we lost in Afghanistan, but that doesnt mean we cant win against RUssia in Ukraine".
> lmaooo
> 
> how do you know that? you also dont know their strategy- they will probably hold the rear bases and territories, to free up bettter troops to go on the attack and take more Ukranian territory. dont speak on what you have no or poor knowledge about , for real.
> 
> and NATO's bich asz still cant move in and fight them? then i guess equipment doesnt matter then!


Afghanistan was a different war. Just like Vietnam was a different war and yet people constantly reminding the U.S. about how bad it would be in Gulf War just prior to fighting in Desert Storm yet we saw how that went, the so called Mother of all Battles or Vietnams. The war in Ukraine is more conventional.


----------



## Cash GK

The SC said:


> The cause of the war between Russia 🇷🇺 and Ukraine 🇺🇦
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580267574503227392


In jungle who attack in groups and who hunt alone lol hyenas


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## Reashot Xigwin

How do you know when someone are losing?

When they start building ww2 style trench lines:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580192286348279809


Oldman1 said:


> What makes you think they are suffering at a higher rate than the Russians? You still believe that 6k only dead BS? Russia loses 6k but needs to mobilize 300k. Hundreds of thousands of Russians are fleeing because they want no part in the war where their chances of surviving is very low. You talk about mowing down so many Ukrainians yet you see Russia losing occupied territory in matter of weeks in Kharkiv and Kherson. And now the first group of so called 300k of questionable troops are surrendering or dying in droves.
> 
> 
> Afghanistan was a different war. Just like Vietnam was a different war and yet people constantly reminding the U.S. about how bad it would be in Gulf War just prior to fighting in Desert Storm yet we saw how that went, the so called Mother of all Battles or Vietnams. The war in Ukraine is more conventional.


Ukrainians dying at a higher rate than Russian are just vatnik myth. At the 1st days of fighting maybe. but their lost are usually around 1/3 compared to the Russian casualty overall.

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## Viet

Cash GK said:


> Tell me what europ has oil or what. They need to mamge expenses as well. Germany increased 100 billions for weapons 200 billions subsidy in bills. How about weak economy in europ. They are many poor countries in Europe man bring your fuck8ng horses back on earth. People like you are so Arrogant and not realizing the Temperature. When you drive foolishly then Accidents happen.Europe as to mange housing medical and schooling for those 5 millones people plus Europe has to look after their mental health. Big task..


You are clueless. That’s a war. People will go to extremes. If no oil no gas no electricity, ok, people will still survive we just go back to old age. No joke, I myself have prepared for everything I built this oven for the coming winter. many Germans do that here.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You don't have 100 missiles next to a HIMARS, but you don't store 100 HIMARS missile off site somewhere, again, Logistic is about you have 1 next to you, 1 on the move, and 1 also on the move as backup, and unless Ukraine can produce 4 HIMARS rocket per every launcher, they won't have any store up.


not next to you , you have those missiles somewhere , load the Himras , the himras go somewhere else and fire its load , come back and reload and again go somewhere else and again empty its load , that's how you increase the survivability of the system . may look unnecessary but its how its done and the result showed its effective way to do it


jhungary said:


> You only will store whatever you have spare, and that is *NOT *the case for the Ukrainian, and I suggest you go read something about Just-In-Time logistic model before your next comment, because I cannot further dumb down the concept for you, and you obviously have no idea what is just-in-time logistic model.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A study of system dynamics in just-in-time logistics
> 
> 
> Just-in-time (JIT) systems are designed to produce and deliver goods or services as needed, using minimal inventories. It is a logistics philosophy fo…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencedirect.com


not available for me it want subscription , and you can do that for fuel and ammunition as your production is limited and your consumption is not constant , one day you use more , one day you use less


aviator_fan said:


> where do you guys this sh**. I am not jewish or Israeli (common accusation from those that are out of arguments). This makes no sense. About 85% of Jewish population is split between Israel and US.
> 
> Most of the rest of it is in advanced countries spread around Europe. Ukraine's population is only 0.2 % jewish so completely insignificant.
> 
> Total number of Jews around the world is 14M and change with most living in rich countries. WTF do you think anybody would want to Ukraine. 14M makes it slightly more than population of Tehran, less than Karachi.
> 
> I got news for you, there are very few Jews and almost nobody wants to leave the country they are in.


once 80% were living in Europe


Viet said:


> Who is “we”?


we means us


Oldman1 said:


> I'm pretty shocked about the the Russians refurbishing T62s instead of T72s and T80s. It be like refurbishing M60s instead of the old Abrams. They are even asking for Belarus to provide T72s as well.
> 
> What do you think of the Russians making such defensive lines?


wasn't t-62 or t-64 supposed to be better than t-72 and T80 is actually based on it ?
t-72 was just a lower class tank that could be produced a lot faster


sammuel said:


> Hack ,
> 
> Seems like you estimates on the repair bridge were over optimistic.
> 
> The rail bridge seems still closed 5 days after ( not repaired in a few hours as you estimated ) and they have not even began the highway repair.


the train pass over it , so the rail must be fixed , they are just fixing the guards and railing on its side , not a priority job that's why it seems slower. and the actual repair and train begin work was a lot faster than what I predict
by the way what's your idea about the speed of repair on the road it seems they don't need to replace one plate at all and the repair would be a lot faster in the road (about it not begin look at the right side of the photo their floating crane already move one plate into place to be fixed I'm more interested to see what they want to do with other section


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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> the train pass over it , so the rail must be fixed , they are just fixing the guards and railing on its side , not a priority job that's why it seems slower. and the actual repair and train begin work was a lot faster than what I predict
> by the way what's your idea about the speed of repair on the road it seems they don't need to replace one plate at all and the repair would be a lot faster in the road (about it not begin look at the right side of the photo their floating crane already move one plate into place to be fixed I'm more interested to see what they want to do with other section



Really don't see how that is possible , the clip they posted about the train passing looked fake and could have been taken anywhere any time.

If they really had solid evidence they would post a clip of it going through the damaged area , they did not post it ,cause they don't have it . From the looks of the tracks , nothing can drive through it. And the picture show they are still working on it.

Have not seen even one reliable picture of a train passing over the damaged area , nothing but propaganda fake clips.

As for the high way -On those two pieces that fell into the sea , they have not even began working - you estimated a week , yet the work has not even started yet.










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580267336707497989~


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## Shawnee

aviator_fan said:


> Their entire male population mobilized and stayed in Ukraine. Its not the comedian, its their dignity.
> 
> When Putin mobilized 300K, 300K men also left. There is the difference
> 
> 
> Video? Source? Or we believe it because you typed it?



Link was provided above.

misery:
Ukrainian fighter crashes chasing Iranian UAVs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580312547005460480


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580327117052485634


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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> not next to you , you have those missiles somewhere , load the Himras , the himras go somewhere else and fire its load , come back and reload and again go somewhere else and again empty its load , that's how you increase the survivability of the system . may look unnecessary but its how its done and the result showed its effective way to do it
> 
> not available for me it want subscription , and you can do that for fuel and ammunition as your production is limited and your consumption is not constant , one day you use more , one day you use less
> 
> once 80% were living in Europe
> 
> we means us
> 
> wasn't t-62 or t-64 supposed to be better than t-72 and T80 is actually based on it ?
> t-72 was just a lower class tank that could be produced a lot faster
> 
> the train pass over it , so the rail must be fixed , they are just fixing the guards and railing on its side , not a priority job that's why it seems slower. and the actual repair and train begin work was a lot faster than what I predict
> by the way what's your idea about the speed of repair on the road it seems they don't need to replace one plate at all and the repair would be a lot faster in the road (about it not begin look at the right side of the photo their floating crane already move one plate into place to be fixed I'm more interested to see what they want to do with other section


Ah us = Iran? I don’t see Iran votes yes on Russia annexation on Donbas, why not?
Anyway I can see a new war on the horizon between Iran and Saudi Arabia. That’s coming. the Saudi are too dumb to alienate US and EU. those greedy oil sheiks hug Putin they hunt some more dollars on oil. Let’s see if their overpriced weapons can protect their palaces.


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## alimobin memon

Reashot Xigwin said:


> How do you know when someone are losing?
> 
> When they start building ww2 style trench lines:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580192286348279809
> 
> Ukrainians dying at a higher rate than Russian are just vatnik myth. At the 1st days of fighting maybe. but their lost are usually around 1/3 compared to the Russian casualty overall.


Thats very sad state of affairs when people think that using old tactics means they are failing. Do you know that World militaries still follow Sun Tzu's art of war ?

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## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580332930160738305
Ukrainian fighter crashing while chasing Iranian drone per Ukrainian sources.






This pretty one million dollar sidewinder is being used to maybe shoot one Iranian drone, costing about 20k.

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## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> lol , we don't recognize the voting
> by the way let look at the other interesting voting to fight glorification of Nazism just happened one year ago, guess the one who said no are nazi countries ,the one who abstained nazi simpathizers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we again didn't recognize that voting


Iran is a paria state where its ayatollah leaders are too busy killing young women for not adhering to medieval religious laws. 

Ofcourse iran does not recognize voting where 90% world shows a working moral compass….no suprise there. 
How Iran has fallen really…i look up to its history and the iranians in europe are generally very nice people. 


The nazi-glorification vote is taken out of context. USA and Ukraine were disagreeing with the wording…knowing full well Russia was planning its “denazification” excuse for annexation. Russia refused to amend the bill. And look and behold! Now a year later we see russia ethnically cleansing their brother nation…torturing and raping civilians…all for “denazification”. 
Its utterly disgusting that these russian fascist taint this anti-nazism movement so much.

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## Shawnee

ZeGerman said:


> Iran is a paria state where its ayatollah leaders are too busy killing young women for not adhering to medieval religious laws.
> 
> Ofcourse iran does not recognize voting where 90% world shows a working moral compass….no suprise there.
> How Iran has fallen really…i look up to its history and the iranians in europe are generally very nice people.
> 
> 
> The nazi-glorification vote is taken out of context. USA and Ukraine were disagreeing with the wording…knowing full well Russia was planning its “denazification” excuse for annexation. Russia refused to amend the bill. And look and behold! Now a year later we see russia ethnically cleansing their brother nation…torturing and raping civilians…all for “denazification”.
> Its utterly disgusting that these russian fascist taint this anti-nazism movement so much.



0.01 percent of Iranians came to protest in the streets. No genuine video ever showed more than 200 people together despite all tries.

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Really don't see how that is possible , the clip they posted about the train passing looked fake and could have been taken anywhere any time.


there was another video and other videos , there is nothing strength , the damage was not to weight bearing part of the bridge , only some meshing and guards on the side that were used by personnel who want to maintain the bridges and rails not train itself


sammuel said:


> If they really had solid evidence they would post a clip of it going through the damaged area , they did not post it ,cause they don't have it . From the looks of the tracks , nothing can drive through it. And the picture show they are still working on it.


you can go there and film them passing if you don't want to believe russian , the ukrainina made a big mistake on where to detonate the bomb , if they fid it at the place the road is hanged under those arches , they probably could destroy both the rail road and road and made the repairs a lot harder


sammuel said:


> As for the high way -On those two pieces that fell into the sea , they have not even began working - you estimated a week , yet the work has not even started yet.


that's one piece bend from middle not two . and we see if my weeks is correct or not . the piece won't be made on the bridge they make them some place else probably some temporary workshop beside the bridge , then they transport it to the place and put it there the work on them certainly is started somewhere else . and as you see the work on road bridge already started , and as one piece is actually intact and only need putting back in place probably the work would be a lot faster than I predicted


----------



## Primus

Shawnee said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580332930160738305
> Ukrainian fighter crashing while chasing Iranian drone per Ukrainian sources.
> 
> View attachment 886552
> 
> 
> This pretty one million dollar sidewinder is being used to maybe shoot one Iranian drone, costing about 20k.


The aim9 isn't compatible with the Mig29, also the most advanced variant of the aim9 only costs 400,000 dollars. Not 1 million


----------



## Shawnee

Primus said:


> The aim9 isn't compatible with the Mig29, also the most advanced variant of the aim9 only costs 400,000 dollars. Not 1 million



Dear

Saudis used aim9 against Iranian Shahed multiple times with failure and sometimes success.

Multiple videos and sources available.

They paid 1 million per shot on average which is closer to 2 million adding maintaining F15.

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## Reashot Xigwin

alimobin memon said:


> Thats very sad state of affairs when people think that using old tactics means they are failing. Do you know that World militaries still follow Sun Tzu's art of war ?


Second reason:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580211727911641089


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Ah us = Iran? I don’t see Iran votes yes on Russia annexation on Donbas, why not?


against our foreign policy that refuse accepting the change of borders by forces , we still don't recognize the parts Russia took from Georgia or the part Armenia took from Azerbaijan or Azerbaijan later took from Armenia , we didn't recognize Luhansk and Donetsk as independent country we stated we won't recognize Kosovo as a country , even in 1952 we were part of the countries who abstained in voting for UN general assembly resolution 505 and in 1971 in UN general assembly resolution 2758 we say yes to restoring the UN rights to mainland China .till today we don't have any relation with Taiwan , you can look deeper in recent history . we simply don't recognize any annexation or land grab by force, for us it simply is a matter of no no


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## Paul2

Shawnee said:


> Dear
> 
> Saudis used aim9 against Iranian Shahed multiple times with failure and sometimes success.
> 
> Multiple videos and sources available.
> 
> They paid 1 million per shot on average which is closer to 2 million adding maintaining F15.



Those Shaheds, and cruise missiles can be easily shot down with a gun, which is what I am inclined to believe in due to news of UA planes downing more than 4 targets per sortie.


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## ZeGerman

Shawnee said:


> Dear
> 
> Saudis used aim9 against Iranian Shahed multiple times with failure and sometimes success.
> 
> Multiple videos and sources available.
> 
> They paid 1 million per shot on average which is closer to 2 million adding maintaining F15.


Ukraine is a testing ground for drone and anti drone warfare now really.

I am curious how the gepard tanks or anti-drone guns will work. These are better suited then expensive anti-missile systems.

Iran using its drones will open eyes of USA and Israel how to develop better counters however. Now the drone warfare is no longer 1 way street. (Russians also started using more grenade dropping drones and artillery spotters)


----------



## ziaulislam

Cash GK said:


> You are very wrong. Chinese and Indians buying the oil very cheap. 2.9 billions people buying their oil and gass. These two countries will send cheap products in market and otherside europ is buying expensive gass from its best friend usa. Eu Manufacturing costs is going up. In China and India manufacturing cost is going down. Tell me who's economy is in good shape. Russians are getting money weapons from China india and iran along with their own tech. common man which world are you living...you live in Mars right? Europe alongside Ukrainen are the biggest losers. Usa selling weapons and gass. This statement is very strong
> View attachment 886469


Westerns are been brain washed.
Look at middle and lower income Americans and Europeans they have been decimated inflation is rampant and retirement funds are down by 70%

Yet they told Russia is in ruines..

Well Russia is doing much better economically due to their energy exports

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## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> Iran is a paria state where its ayatollah leaders are too busy killing young women for not adhering to medieval religious laws.
> 
> Ofcourse iran does not recognize voting where 90% world shows a working moral compass….no suprise there.
> How Iran has fallen really…i look up to its history and the iranians in europe are generally very nice people.


go say that to the countries who voted no to it AKA USA and Ukraine or the ones who abstained AKA democracy heaven like Australia , Austria, Finland , France, Germany, Iceland , Italy, *Netherlands*, New Zeeland ,Luxemburg, Norway, Spain , Sweden , Switzerland , Poland , Portugal , Korea ,Turkey , United Kingdom aka all Europe and usa and their respective follower like Japan and Korea 
so go your fake crocodile tears some where else nobody buy it here


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## Shawnee

Paul2 said:


> Those Shaheds, and cruise missiles can be easily shot down with a gun, which is what I am inclined to believe in due to news of UA planes downing more than 4 targets per sortie.



Missiles not gun.
See:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580332483932872704





Paid journalism

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## Hack-Hook

Shawnee said:


> Ukrainian fighter crashing while chasing Iranian drone per Ukrainian sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This pretty one million dollar sidewinder is being used to maybe shoot one Iranian drone, costing about 20k.


what is this these guys literally working their *** off while those two in back watching them literally beside that lift truck , is it a new way of pranking new recruits ?

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## Shawnee

Hack-Hook said:


> what is this these guys literally working their *** off while those two in back watching them literally beside that lift truck , is it a new way of pranking new recruits ?



Just imagine if they were Iranian doing this, 
It would be CNN first page for fun

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## Hack-Hook

Primus said:


> The aim9 isn't compatible with the Mig29, also the most advanced variant of the aim9 only costs 400,000 dollars. Not 1 million


if AGM-88 can be made compatible with the Mig-29 why not AIM-9
I think Poland had a program to modernize its mig-29 with AIM-9x


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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> there was another video and other videos , there is nothing strength , the damage was not to weight bearing part of the bridge , only some meshing and guards on the side that were used by personnel who want to maintain the bridges and rails not train itself
> 
> you can go there and film them passing if you don't want to believe russian , the ukrainina made a big mistake on where to detonate the bomb , if they fid it at the place the road is hanged under those arches , they probably could destroy both the rail road and road and made the repairs a lot harder
> 
> that's one piece bend from middle not two . and we see if my weeks is correct or not . the piece won't be made on the bridge they make them some place else probably some temporary workshop beside the bridge , then they transport it to the place and put it there the work on them certainly is started somewhere else . and as you see the work on road bridge already started , and as one piece is actually intact and only need putting back in place probably the work would be a lot faster than I predicted



I guess on the high way - we will just wait and see.

As for the rail bridge , from all the reports i have been reading they are passing the trains on ferries for now and not on the bridge.









Collaborators Forced to Admit Transport Collapse in Crimea - Arc


After the explosions on the Crimean bridge, it was obvious that there was a collapse for the illegal transportation of goods, including military goods, by the occupiers through it. Fake Crimean “leaders” and occupiers’ propaganda took “calming” positions, that allegedly freight traffic on the...




arc.construction


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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> against our foreign policy that refuse accepting the change of borders by forces , we still don't recognize the parts Russia took from Georgia or the part Armenia took from Azerbaijan or Azerbaijan later took from Armenia , we didn't recognize Luhansk and Donetsk as independent country we stated we won't recognize Kosovo as a country , even in 1952 we were part of the countries who abstained in voting for UN general assembly resolution 505 and in 1971 in UN general assembly resolution 2758 we say yes to restoring the UN rights to mainland China .till today we don't have any relation with Taiwan , you can look deeper in recent history . we simply don't recognize any annexation or land grab by force, for us it simply is a matter of no no


Good. I hope you told that to Putin’s face during bilateral meetings. Putin tends to invent stories to justify aggression.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> not next to you , you have those missiles somewhere , load the Himras , the himras go somewhere else and fire its load , come back and reload and again go somewhere else and again empty its load , that's how you increase the survivability of the system .
> may look unnecessary but its how its done and the result showed its effective way to do it
> not available for me it want subscription , and you can do that for fuel and ammunition as your production is limited and your consumption is not constant , one day you use more , one day you use less



Again, You really should read up how logistic work. It's not the way you think it does. If not that one, go look for another one

Imagine you have 4 HIMARS in location A, 4 HIMARS in location B, 4 HIMARS in location C and 4 HIMARS in location D.

You have 16 (1-16) pods of missile to distribute between the 16 HIMARS. You will deliver 4 Pods (1-4) to location A, B, C, D and those pods will be next to the HIMARS at A, B, C and D. Then you will have 4 (5 -8) Pods always on the road and going around between A, B, C and D, and another 4 Pod (9-12) to back up that previous 4 (5-8) Pod, again, continuously going between A, B, C and D and finally, you have the last 4 pod as spare, So at any time, 12 pod will be on the move, 1, 2, 3, 4 will be next to Location A, B, C and D near to those HIMARS, so if you can find out where that is, then you will probably having a go at those HIMARS instead. And then you will have 8 Pods constantly on the road, say 5 going from D to A, 6 going from A to B, 7 going from B to C, and 8 going from C toD, 9 going the other direction from A to D, 10 going the other direction from B to C, 11 going the other direction form C to B and 12 going the other direction from D to A) 

so Pod 5-12 will be constantly on the move. and 13-16 will be in strategic reserve, so if any location still runs out of the pod, they will be sent. so at any time, of the 16 pod, 12 will be constantly on the move, and 4 will be store and static, which mean if you can use your Iranian drone to target, you can at best take out 1/4 of the combat power, that is IF you know where they are storing those pod, and 3/4 of the combat power is out of reach for you, because they will be constantly on the move between location A, B, C and D.


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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Imagine running out of T-72... It won't be long before they start (really) looting museum pieces for armor.


They already did, or else how or where do you think they have that many AK or SKS, some photo online suggested that Russian troop and their separatist counterpart are using WW2 PPsh and Mosin Nagant in the front line.


----------



## monitor



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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah figure a couple of bulldozers even civilian versions can do the job. Even against Luhansk and Donetsk in future when overcoming such obstacles.


There are no sure fire way to stop tank, it would literally be pointless now, and if we are actaully giving those engineering vehicle or breaching vehicle we have, those obstacle would have been breached in no time even if they booby trap those defence.

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> As for the rail bridge , from all the reports i have been reading they are passing the trains on ferries for now and not on the bridge.


I heard ferries are for truck . you cant conjure up train carrying ferries from somewhere in so short amount of time m they are rare and they are used in places they are needed ,



Viet said:


> Good. I hope you told that to Putin’s face during bilateral meetings. Putin tends to invent stories to justify aggression.


don't need to tell him , our foreign minister spokesman said it for many times that its against our foreign policy to accept change of borders by military use , it was the case even since before the revolution . and our action on those are clear , we don't recognize it, bilateral meetings with Putin was not about us acknowledge Russia right to annex any Ukrainian land or we say him you are right in attacking Ukraine , we just do business with another country that we recognize we can't be responsible for everything they do


----------



## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> go say that to the countries who voted no to it AKA USA and Ukraine or the ones who abstained AKA democracy heaven like Australia , Austria, Finland , France, Germany, Iceland , Italy, *Netherlands*, New Zeeland ,Luxemburg, Norway, Spain , Sweden , Switzerland , Poland , Portugal , Korea ,Turkey , United Kingdom aka all Europe and usa and their respective follower like Japan and Korea
> so go your fake crocodile tears some where else nobody buy it here


I just told you that those voted no/abstained did so because the bill used wording that would be easy to abuse by russia.
And now russia are indeed abusing “denazification” To ethnically cleanse areas of ukraine. It just proved us right and that russia was using it for a pathetic propaganda tool.

Nazism is almost non-existant in netherlands, and we have laws against promoting it already. It hurts to see “denazification” being abused like this by russia.
But keep up your pathethic mental gymnastics buddy.

Siding with russia 🇷🇺 On its annexation attempt on ukraine.
More state murders of young women








Videos show Iran teenager protesting before death - BBC News


Nika Shakarami's mother confirms she is the girl seen burning her headscarf on a Tehran street.




www.bbc.co.uk













Women reveal suffering torture, rape in Iran’s prisons in new Al Arabiya documentary


Iran commits horrific crimes against women detained in its prisons, including torture and rape, an Al Arabiya documentary revealed.Narges Guevar, an



english.alarabiya.net





Iran is a Pariah state that lost its moral compass. It hope the iranians can rid themselves of the ayatollahs or set that leadership on to a more moderate path.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You have 16 (1-16) pods of missile to distribute between the 16 HIMARS. You will deliver 4 Pods (1-4) to location A, B, C, D and those pods will be next to the HIMARS at A, B, C and D. Then you will have 4 (5 -8) Pods always on the road and going around between A, B, C and D, and another 4 Pod (9-12) to back up that previous 4 (5-8) Pod, again, continuously going between A, B, C and D and finally, you have the last 4 pod as spare, So at any time, 12 pod will be on the move, 1, 2, 3, 4 will be next to Location A, B, C and D near to those HIMARS, so if you can find out where that is, then you will probably having a go at those HIMARS instead. And then you will have 8 Pods constantly on the road, say 5 going from D to A, 6 going from A to B, 7 going from B to C, and 8 going from C toD, 9 going the other direction from A to D, 10 going the other direction from B to C, 11 going the other direction form C to B and 12 going the other direction from D to A)
> 
> so Pod 5-12 will be constantly on the move. and 13-16 will be in strategic reserve, so if any location still runs out of the pod, they will be sent. so at any time, of the 16 pod, 12 will be constantly on the move, and 4 will be store and static, which mean if you can use your Iranian drone to target, you can at best take out 1/4 of the combat power, that is IF you know where they are storing those pod, and 3/4 of the combat power is out of reach for you, because they will be constantly on the move between location A, B, C and D.except its good for theory , you have more than 16 pods and when you load those pods on the launcher , from somewhere you must replenish them . those somewhere is your reserve and logistic node and its where it get hit.


the strategic reserve is what I care , you hit it , there won't be any replacement for the ones on the move and there won't be any on the move any more , here the weak link is not the moving pods and the launcher , its the strategic reserve



ZeGerman said:


> I just told you that those voted no/abstained did so because the bill used wording that would be easy to abuse by russia.
> And now russia are indeed abusing “denazification” To ethnically cleanse areas of ukraine. It just proved us right and that russia was using it for a pathetic propaganda tool.


then how come its bad for Iran not to consider voting on such sham resolution ? how its good for you to abstain and show your moral but Iran refuse to participate in such sham is bad ?
that's hypocrisy and double standards



ZeGerman said:


> Nazism is almost non-existant in netherlands, and we have laws against promoting it already. It hurts to see “denazification” being abused like this by russia.
> But keep up your pathethic mental gymnastics buddy.


Nazism always were nonexistence in Iran so we don't even needed law against it


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580406354585403392


----------



## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> More state murders of young women
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Videos show Iran teenager protesting before death - BBC News
> 
> 
> Nika Shakarami's mother confirms she is the girl seen burning her headscarf on a Tehran street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women reveal suffering torture, rape in Iran’s prisons in new Al Arabiya documentary
> 
> 
> Iran commits horrific crimes against women detained in its prisons, including torture and rape, an Al Arabiya documentary revealed.Narges Guevar, an
> 
> 
> 
> english.alarabiya.net


unrelated for discussing it you can go to 5-6 thread that discussing it right now , wonder why moderators allow such amount of parallels threads on that matter



ZeGerman said:


> Iran is a Pariah state that lost its moral compass. It hope the iranians can rid themselves of the ayatollahs or set that leadership on to a more moderate path.


on this we have higher moral ground than you as we never ever recognized any land grab by force by any nation if its an ally nation , on other hand you guys time and time recognized such moves , even participated in them


----------



## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> then how come its bad for Iran not to consider voting on such sham resolution ? how its good for you to abstain and show your moral but Iran refuse to participate in such sham is bad ?
> that's hypocrisy and double standards


There are multiple abstaining the russia attack vote. Not nice but that is not my issue.

Iran supports Russia militarily. This speaks volumes. More then their voting. They are clearly in pro-russia camp. Their drones being used to hit civilian infrastructure (no more electricity and water for those ukranians through winter—-posts from russia millbloggers)

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580406354585403392


expect at 21st century after all those wars in 20-21 century people have learned their lessons that you don't entrench tanks and armors , they must be on move , want entrenched weapon go get some mortars and howitzers



ZeGerman said:


> There are multiple abstaining the russia attack vote. Not nice but that is not my issue.
> 
> Iran supports Russia militarily. This speaks volumes. More then their voting. They are clearly in pro-russia camp. Their drones being used to hit civilian infrastructure (no more electricity and water for those ukranians through winter—-posts from russia millbloggers)


go tell that to the countries who supported UAE and KSA attack on poor Yemeni people or supported destruction of Libya or bombing Serbia on Kosovo. or supporting certain country killing and bombing Palestinian as I said crocodile tear .
those UAVs are only Iranian design but made in Russia you did not even grasped that yet



ZeGerman said:


> civilian infrastructure


some call them double use facilities, like medical equipment and cancer drugs EU and USA prevented enter Iran


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> the strategic reserve is what I care , you hit it , there won't be any replacement for the ones on the move and there won't be any on the move any more , here the weak link is not the moving pods and the launcher , its the strategic reserve


Again, it's a small portion of the actual combat force, in my example it's 1/4 but in reality, is more like 1/7 or 1/10 if you disperse your combat power which is what Ukrainian is doing because you will not be having 4 HIMARS at 4 different places, it will be 1 here 2 there and 16 HIMARS in maybe 10 different place, which mean instead of 8 constantly on the road, it might have been 10 or 12 or might not even be a strategic reserve at all. Not to mention if you ever can target those, those pods are very easily be replaced. 

In the field, this is what we call chasing the white ghost or puff the magic dragon, you are basically dedicating your resource on something that is not useful. It only useful if you enemy have enough industrial power to make a lot of excess stock, it CERTAINLY not in Ukrainian case.


----------



## Primus

Shawnee said:


> Dear
> 
> Saudis used aim9 against Iranian Shahed multiple times with failure and sometimes success.
> 
> Multiple videos and sources available.
> 
> They paid 1 million per shot on average which is closer to 2 million adding maintaining F15.


I know the Saudis have been using them against the drones, which bearing in mind, is not a bad idea. The AIM9X the most advanced variant is only 400k dollars. The Sidewinder is not compatible with the Mig29 Ukraine uses. It was most likely an R73 which costs ~100,000 dollars at most?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Shawnee said:


> Missiles not gun.
> See:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580332483932872704
> View attachment 886554
> 
> Paid journalism


More than half of the drones & missiles were shot down by Ukrainian air defense. That's why the article said they suck.


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580295103088066560


at this rate, they can probably introduce a resolution at UNGA and kick Russia out of Security Council and they will pass. It's 143 to 5.......you only need 2/3 in UNGA to approve and Abstain does not count.

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## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> go tell that to the countries who supported UAE and KSA attack on poor Yemeni people


Usa does it so iran can do it too! 
Morals.



Hack-Hook said:


> or supported destruction of Libya or bombing Serbia on Kosovo.


Stopping a dictator killing civilians or serbians doing another srebrenica? 

Its just a situation of “damned if you do damned if you dont.” Not acting against serbia you would claim we dont care for kosovo muslims blahblahblah. Acting against serbia we are imperialist (and still dont care about muslims…somehow) 

“Palestine”? Yesh Iran funding so many terrorist groups certainly helps. Such morals to resolve this conflict. 



Hack-Hook said:


> those UAVs are only Iranian design but made in Russia you did not even grasped that yet


Nonsense. Reports of plane deliveries were given. And sharing designs is still a low move for a country supposedly “actively neutral”


Hack-Hook said:


> some call them double use facilities, like medical equipment and cancer drugs EU and USA prevented enter Iran



Context matters. Unfortunately loose sanctions are often abused by pariah states. 
Cement for terror tunnels in hamas
Or going for nuclear bombs for the ayatollahs. (and then the salafi saudis also want them…the horror)

I hoped iran would be an rational alternative for the saudis (unfortunately west is oil addicted) . However they seem to be in a competition with the saudis on medieval behaviour.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> at this rate, they can probably introduce a resolution at UNGA and kick Russia out of Security Council and they will pass. It's 143 to 5.......


general assembly don't have the right to do it otherwise all 5 permanent member already would have been kicked out

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> general assembly don't have the right to do it otherwise all 5 permanent member already would have been kicked out


General Assembly HAVE the right to enforce a resolution if they were passed by 2/3.

Or how do you think China replace Taiwan in Security Council back in 1970?









United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Article 18 of UN Charter






Charter of the United Nations: Chapter IV: The General Assembly


Charter of the United Nations: Chapter IV: The General Assembly



web.archive.org




Article 18​
Each member of the General Assembly shall have one vote.
Decisions of the General Assembly on important questions shall be made by a two-thirds majority of the members present and voting. These questions shall include: recommendations with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, the election of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, the election of the members of the Economic and Social Council, the election of members of the Trusteeship Council in accordance with paragraph 1 (c) of Article 86, the admission of new Members to the United Nations,* the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Members*, questions relating to the operation of the trusteeship system, and budgetary questions.
Decisions on other questions, including the determination of additional categories of questions to be decided by a two-thirds majority, shall be made by a majority of the members present and voting.
*They can literally kick Russia out of UN if they passed the resolution by 2/3...*

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## Cash GK

Viet said:


> You are clueless. That’s a war. People will go to extremes. If no oil no gas no electricity, ok, people will still survive we just go back to old age. No joke, I myself have prepared for everything I built this oven for the coming winter. many Germans do that here.


Ghahahahhwh you are funny man... keep thinking that your home is on Mars. We are here to tall facts. Fact is you living on earth . Acceptance is in your hands. If a pigeon thinks closing eyes will save him from cat than he is mistaken

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## Paul2

Shawnee said:


> Missiles not gun.
> See:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580332483932872704
> View attachment 886554
> 
> Paid journalism


but he cannot carry more than 4 missiles, reports of 5 and 7 targets per mission are only possible if they used a gun to shoot them down.


----------



## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> Usa does it so iran can do it too!
> Morals.


means USA and EU who does it , don't have the moral to make any complains


ZeGerman said:


> Stopping a dictator killing civilians or serbians doing another srebrenica?
> 
> Its just a situation of “damned if you do damned if you dont.” Not acting against serbia you would claim we dont care for kosovo muslims blahblahblah. Acting against serbia we are imperialist (and still dont care about muslims…somehow)
> 
> “Palestine”? Yesh Iran funding so many terrorist groups certainly helps. Such morals to resolve this conflict.


no you guys supporting the one who kill people or use hellfire against children tricycles help .
and dictator or not , you guys made a mental gymnasium and use a resolution that didn't allowed you attack Libya to attack Libya
Kosovo , the exact situation of Donbass and Luhansk for 8 years , and do I supposed to have some sort of double standards when it come to Muslims ?


ZeGerman said:


> Nonsense. Reports of plane deliveries were given. And sharing designs is still a low move for a country supposedly “actively neutral”


we have a 150milliard dollar economy deal wit Russia , have you see what those airplane carry , have you ever had a photo of them unload or load any Weapon 


ZeGerman said:


> Context matters. Unfortunately loose sanctions are often abused by pariah states.
> Cement for terror tunnels in hamas
> Or going for nuclear bombs for the ayatollahs. (and then the salafi saudis also want them…the horror)


yeah , cancer drugs for bomb . sonographic equipment for bomb , you and your mythical bomb , its 40 years that Iran is 6 month to1 year away from the bomb . go guess how real the claims and accusation are till today the only illegal nuclear material found in Iran is the one that ware stained the equipment we bought from Pakistan and they used the equipment to build bombs


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> General Assembly HAVE the right to enforce a resolution if they were passed by 2/3.
> 
> Or how do you think China replace Taiwan in Security Council back in 1970?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 18 of UN Charter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charter of the United Nations: Chapter IV: The General Assembly
> 
> 
> Charter of the United Nations: Chapter IV: The General Assembly
> 
> 
> 
> web.archive.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 18​
> Each member of the General Assembly shall have one vote.
> Decisions of the General Assembly on important questions shall be made by a two-thirds majority of the members present and voting. These questions shall include: recommendations with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, the election of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, the election of the members of the Economic and Social Council, the election of members of the Trusteeship Council in accordance with paragraph 1 (c) of Article 86, the admission of new Members to the United Nations,* the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Members*, questions relating to the operation of the trusteeship system, and budgetary questions.
> Decisions on other questions, including the determination of additional categories of questions to be decided by a two-thirds majority, shall be made by a majority of the members present and voting.
> *They can literally kick Russia out of UN if they passed the resolution by 2/3...*



Could've been done in 2008, but now.

Only a blind not sees that a lot of countries bet not on russia winning, but on the West getting weaker coming out of this.

For as long as the 3rd world sees any chance to exploit this as a springboard, 2/3 majority is unachievable.


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Could've been done in 2008, but now.
> 
> Only a blind not sees that a lot of countries bet not on russia winning, but on the West getting weaker coming out of this.
> 
> For as long as the 3rd world sees any chance to exploit this as a springboard, 2/3 majority is unachievable.


Still 143 to 5. Let's say 1/3 of those 3rd world changes their mind you still have around 90, I like those odd.


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## Hack-Hook

Paul2 said:


> but he cannot carry more than 4 missiles, reports of 5 and 7 targets per mission are only possible if they used a gun to shoot them down.


well it have 7 hardpoint and one cannon , let say the one on the body can't carry missile and is used for fuel tanks it can carry up to 6x r-77 (doubt they are compatible with Ukrainian Mig-29s) or more likely 4x-r-73 and 2x R-27


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## Reashot Xigwin

Ukrainian took out 4 KA-52 attack helicopter in just 18 minutes









Ukraines Air Force confirms theres photo and video evidence of shooting down of 4 Ka-52 helicopters on Wednesday


UKRAINSKA PRAVDA - WEDNESDAY, 12 OCTOBER 2022, 18:40 There is photo and video evidence to confirm the shooting down of 4 Russian Ka-52 combat helicopters. Sources: Yurii Ihnat, the spokesman for Air Force Command, on air during the national 24/7 newscast, on October 12 Quote: "18 minutes is the...




www.yahoo.com

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## jhungary

Ukraine war latest: Ukraine joining Nato 'would guarantee World War Three', says Russia


Ukraine joining Nato would mean "a guaranteed escalation" to a third world war, the deputy secretary of Russia's Security Council has said.




www.telegraph.co.uk





So let me get this straight.

Ukraine cannot join NATO, or gurantee WW3.
Ukraine cannot retake Russian Annexed territories, or guarantee WW3
Ukraine cannot even attack Russian in Annexed Territories or guarantee WW3.
The West even cannot support Ukraine or guarantee WW3

On the other hand

Russia can take any Ukrainian land and annex them.
Russia can attack any target, anywhere in Ukraine.
Russian can force conscript any Ukrainian to fight in Ukraine.
Russian can support any group in Ukraine as long as those group work for Russian interest. 

Why not just ask Zelenskyy to sign over the entire Ukraine to Russia lol.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> General Assembly HAVE the right to enforce a resolution if they were passed by 2/3.
> 
> Or how do you think China replace Taiwan in Security Council back in 1970?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 18 of UN Charter


that was not a vote by 2/3rd but it become a vote by majority
as un members decided its not important enough to be a vote by 2/3rd and rejected USA proposal

by the way let look at the un charter




__





Charter of the United Nations - Wikisource, the free online library







en.wikisource.org





more exactly at article 6


> _Article 6_​A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the Organization by the General Assembly *upon the recommendation of the Security Council.*



what happened to Taiwan is not applicable here in that they didn't throw out a member they gave its sit to another group that they believed represent the land and country better , now go and try get that recommendation about Russia from UNSC if you can

in short article 18 you quote only become to effect if article 6 come to effect first


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## Enigma SIG

Reashot Xigwin said:


> How do you know when someone are losing?
> 
> When they start building ww2 style trench lines:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580192286348279809



What you on about? 

Ukraine doing the same:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/y26981

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## Hack-Hook

Paul2 said:


> Could've been done in 2008, but now.
> 
> Only a blind not sees that a lot of countries bet not on russia winning, but on the West getting weaker coming out of this.
> 
> For as long as the 3rd world sees any chance to exploit this as a springboard, 2/3 majority is unachievable.


could not have been don in 2008 , 1993 or 1951 and never been done ever and never will be done until there is veto power in UNSC



jhungary said:


> Still 143 to 5. Let's say 1/3 of those 3rd world changes their mind you still have around 90, I like those odd.


even if it be 175 to 1 can't be done until you solve your problem with article 6 . general assembly can't discuss expulsion of a member from UN without recommendation of UNSC and UNSC have no authority to throw anyone out they had to refer it to general assembly

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> that was not a vote by 2/3rd but it become a vote by majority
> as un members decided its not important enough to be a vote by 2/3rd and rejected USA proposal
> 
> by the way let look at the un charter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charter of the United Nations - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more exactly at article 6
> 
> 
> what happened to Taiwan is not applicable here in that they didn't throw out a member they gave its sit to another group that they believed represent the land and country better , now go and try get that recommendation about Russia from UNSC if you can
> 
> in short article 18 you quote only become to effect if article 6 come to effect first



You don't need a UNSC resolution, you only need a UNSC recommendation, which according to Article 27, chapter 5,





__





Chapter V: Article 27 — Charter of the United Nations — Repertory of Practice of United Nations Organs — Codification Division Publications


This is the website of the Repertory of Practice of United Nations Organs (Legal Publications of the Codification Division of the Office of Legal Affairs). Here you will find related information and links.



legal.un.org





“1. Each member of the Security Council shall have one vote.

*2. Decisions of the Security Council on procedural matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members.*

3. Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting.”

There are no veto on procedural matters, as long as you get 9/15 (again, 2/3) of the vote, it will be recommended.

On the other hand, you are wrong about the Taiwan Issue were not declared an "important issue" Because United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1668 was passed by 61 to 34 and declare it "important enough" for any thereafter Chinese issue to have been passed by 2/3 of the majority (which US still lose in the end).





__





United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1668 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Bear in mind ROC WAS in the UN security council, if they can apply Veto to the article as you had suggested with Russia, would ROC be removed from the UNSC and got kicked out of UN to begin with (ROC are no longer a member of UN)?? Given even if you disallow Taiwan from vetoing their own issue as per article 27, US will still use their veto power.

Again, if they can do it to Taiwan, they can do it to Russia.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You don't need a UNSC resolution, you only need a UNSC recommendation, which according to Article 27, chapter 5,
> 
> "“ Decisions of the Security Council on procedural matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members.”"
> 
> There are no veto on procedural matters, as long as you get 9/15 (again, 2/3) of the vote, it will be recommended.
> 
> On the other hand, you are wrong about the Taiwan Issue were not declared an "important issue" Because United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1668 was passed by 61 to 34 and declare it "important enough" for any thereafter Chinese issue to have been passed by 2/3 of the majority (which US still lose in the end).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1668 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bear in mind ROC WAS in the UN security council, if they can apply Veto to the article, would they be removed from the UNSC to begin with??


that was not expulsion that require unsc vote , it never come to UNSC , it was proposed by Albania 

and again wrong the recommendation also can be vetoed you say procedural matters since when recommending expulsion of a member become procedural matter.

and I said the replacement of ROC by PRC was not deemed important enough to require 2/3rd of votes.

also I explain there why your Taiwan example is not applicable here , again then no country thrown out of UN , just decided Peking appoint China representative instead of Taipei


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> that was not a vote by 2/3rd but it become a vote by majority
> as un members decided its not important enough to be a vote by 2/3rd and rejected USA proposal
> 
> by the way let look at the un charter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charter of the United Nations - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more exactly at article 6
> 
> 
> what happened to Taiwan is not applicable here in that they didn't throw out a member they gave its sit to another group that they believed represent the land and country better , now go and try get that recommendation about Russia from UNSC if you can
> 
> in short article 18 you quote only become to effect if article 6 come to effect first


Also, Taiwan has been try to argue the expulsion from UN is illegal under article 6 since 1998 (IIRC) it has no result and UN again rejected Taiwan membership to UN on the basis of Article 27 in 2008, so no, you don't really need to have UNSC recommendation or persistently violate UN Charter (which both Taiwan claim to not have) to be removed from UN or UNSC, otherwise Taiwanese case would be a miscarriage of justice, and you can go tell PRC that.


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> that was not expulsion that require unsc vote , it never come to UNSC , it was proposed by Albania



It was an expulsion, otherwise if a change of representation was the only scope here, then Taiwan could be in UN because it was not named China, but it isn't.





Hack-Hook said:


> and again wrong the recommendation also can be vetoed you say procedural matters since when recommending expulsion of a member become procedural matter.



What do you mean wrong? I have quote you the entire article.

A recommendation is a procedural, and under point 2, you do not need concurrent vote, which mean Veto does not apply.

Again, if veto is in play, explain to me how Taiwan loses UNSC seat?



Hack-Hook said:


> and I said the replacement of ROC by PRC was not deemed important enough to require 2/3rd of votes.



Again, go read up on *United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1668*

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1668 (XVI) was a resolution of the United Nations General Assembly that *determined that any proposal to change the representation of China at the UN would be deemed an "important question"* under the UN Charter which would therefore require a two-thirds majority vote. The motion for UN Resolution 1668 was raised in 1961 by United States, Australia, Japan, Italy and Colombia and passed with 61 UN Member States voted in favor of it, 34 UN Member States voted against it, 7 UN Member States abstaining, and 2 UN Member States non-voting. With its Resolution 2758 in 1971, the UN General Assembly voted with a two-thirds majority to change China's representation in the UN from the Republic of China to the People's Republic of China. Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which is entitled by the founding of the United Nations as the cornerstone of modern day diplomacy since the Vienna Congress, was signed and ratified by Republic of China on 18 April 1961 and 19 December 1969.

The keyword here is "ANY" which mean the replacement of ROC by PRC WOULD be deemed an important issue under UN Charter. Otherwise, what is "any" or are you saying PRC replace ROC does not belong to "ANY proposal to change the representation of China?"



Hack-Hook said:


> also I explain there why your Taiwan example is not applicable here , again then no country thrown out of UN , just decided Peking appoint China representative instead of Taipei



Actually, no, UN ceased to recongnize ROC as a country, which is not according to Article 6. and you cannot simply replace a government of a country and not saying there were no country to begin with? Then what is Taiwan then? Who are the people living in Taiwan? And why Taiwan is not a member of UN if they are simply replacing the "representation" of China?

again, all these are very well documented and argued by Taiwanese since 1990, there are basically a bunch of legal scholars on both side of the issue, my wife, who is an international law lawyer, is basically by my side now siding with the PRC Chinese. And she said. ROC loses the seat not because if they are being replaced in China, but because they lost the statehood and hence lost the requirement of being a member of the UN. Which mean they were expelled, by the UN. which is what 2758 did. and not simply replaced by another entity.


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## Viet

A crowdfunding campaign for Ukraine to buy drones raised nearly $10 million in 24 hours​As Russia's air strikes wreak havoc on Ukraine, crowdfunding campaigns are cropping up to support Ukraine's armed forces.​BY 
PRARTHANA PRAKASH
October 12, 2022 5:33 PM EDT





Ukrainian servicemen train using commercial drones in a military capacity to spot and target enemies for artillery teams in Kharkiv Oblast, Ukraine on 13 August, 2022. Wolfgang Schwan/Anadolu Agency — Getty Images

Sign up for the _Fortune Features_ email list so you don’t miss our biggest features, exclusive interviews, and investigations.
When Russia fired missiles into civilian areas of various cities across Ukraine Monday, its largest airstrike since the invasion, Ukraine supporters responded with their own weapon: a crowdfund.

In 24 hours, the campaign organized by two Ukrainians, Serhiy Prytula and Serhii Sternenko, raised $9.6 million to buy kamikaze drones, or unmanned GPS-guided drones, to aid the Ukrainian army, _The Guardian_ reported. Prytula serves as a local politician and army volunteer and Sternenko is an activist.

Initially, the funds will be used to procure 50 Ram II drones, unmanned aerial vehicles with a 3kg explosive payload from Ukrainian companies, according to _The Guardian_.

Sternenko told the outlet that the campaign would make Ukraine’s defense stronger. “But we still need more weapons from our allies to stop this terror and the crime of genocide Russia commits daily in this European country,” he said.

Several funds dedicated to supplying drones for Ukrainian forces have emerged since the invasion in February. Drones for Ukraine Fund, for instance, has been raising money for Ukraine’s army by making key chain charms of scraps from plane wreckage sites.

Air defense has been key to Ukraine holding out against Russia. Allies to the country, including the U.S. and European countries, are supplying it with Soviet-eraand post-Cold War weapons

Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, told G7 representatives in a video conference Tuesday that Russia had killed 20 people on Monday using different munitions. He said that the Ukrainian intelligence unit believed Russia had ordered a specific type of kamikaze drone from Iran, which likely aided them in their recent attacks.

He requested other nations step up to help Ukraine establish an “air shield.”

“When Ukraine receives a sufficient number of modern and effective air defense systems, the key element of Russian terror—missile strikes—will cease to work,” Zelensky said during the virtual meeting.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said he had ordered the long-range strikes after an attack over the weekend on a bridge that connects Russia to Crimea. Russia has not taken responsibility for choosing civilian targets, but Putin warned that more strikes will come if Ukraine attacks Russian territory again, _Reuters _reported.

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## serenity

RoadAmerica said:


> Either has the S-70 smart guy
> The point was the US tested nearly the same tech almost 20 years ago and retired it before the s-70’s first flight
> Have anything else smart to say?



The troll said that the US has nothing equivalent to S-70 close to operational. You replied with "ever heard of the X-47".

The X-47 is not close to operational. In fact the X-47 is cancelled. Has never been operational and will never be operational. So your response to him is hilarious and incorrect. Sit down boy because you need to get smart first.


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## dbc

Paul2 said:


> Those Shaheds, and cruise missiles can be easily shot down with a gun, which is what I am inclined to believe in due to news of UA planes downing more than 4 targets per sortie.



I think I've said it before the Iranian Shahed fly straight and level at about 3,000 ft over preprogrammed waypoints until it arrives at its target. Fast air isn't really ideally suited to the task of guns only intercept. If I were flying the latest block F/A-18 E/F, I'd simply use my radar to fry the radioshack electronics on the Shahed. Don't get me wrong Guns intercept is possible but you have to get low and slow behind the flying moped and expose yourself to ground fire.

I think we should be supplying Ukraine with armed Super Tucano or similar ...useful for these pesky drones and close air support for ground troops. Thoughts @jhungary ?

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## jhungary

dbc said:


> I think I've said it before the Iranian Shahed fly straight and level at about 3,000 ft over preprogrammed waypoints until it arrives at its target. Fast air isn't really ideally suited to the task of guns only intercept. If I were flying the latest block F/A-18 E/F, I'd simply use my radar to fry the radioshack electronics on the Shahed. Don't get me wrong Guns intercept is possible but you have to get low and slow behind the flying moped and expose yourself to ground fire.
> 
> I think we should be supplying Ukraine with armed Super Tucano or similar ...useful for these pesky drones and close air support for ground troops. Thoughts @jhungary ?


Was talking to an Ukrainian friend this morning, he raise a very good point.

There is a reason why Russia did not even try or attempted to attack troop concentration, even without guidance, they can still swarm Ukrainian frontline troop or armour. Then why the Russian did not do it? It's because most Ukrianian Anti-Air Asset is in the frontline protecting those troop. Which the Russian know if they started targetting them with drone and cruise missile, they would have minimal result. Which is why they target city center.


This drone attack really did reveal the weakness of Ukrainian Anti-Air Defence, because most of them are forward deployed. and they just don't have enough to go round, which mean our priority number one should be increase Ukrainian anti-air capability so they have enough system to strategically deploy within Ukraine rather than using them tactically.

On the other hand, in Super Tucano case, I would argue we should either go big or go home, we should send the Ukrainian some A-10 Thunderbolt instead, there are no point to muck around now, we need to end this quick, imagine what 24 A-10 can do to a Russian front.



serenity said:


> The troll said that the US has nothing equivalent to S-70 close to operational. You replied with "ever heard of the X-47".
> 
> The X-47 is not close to operational. In fact the X-47 is cancelled. Has never been operational and will never be operational. So your response to him is hilarious and incorrect. Sit down boy because you need to get smart first.


X-47 is a demonstration program for UCLASS, it's not cancelled or suspended, in fact, Navy has said they kept the X-47B in operational readiness for future assessment (whatever that mean) which mean as of now as I wrote, Navy still can place X-47 into operational readiness, if they had not done so already.

On the other hand, UCASS program are not cancelled, it has been pushed from 2020 to 2023. We are expecting to see Boeing, which awarded the UCASS contract back in 2018) to come up with something later this year or next year. Which is now in the form of MQ-28 or formerly known as Loyal Wingman Program









Boeing MQ-28 Ghost Bat - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## ziaulislam

Reashot Xigwin said:


> More than half of the drones & missiles were shot down by Ukrainian air defense. That's why the article said they suck.


Well that is very low rate if it's true.
I would expect 90% + to be shot down.

If it's 50% then something is wrong 

The drone is basically a decoy/locate with bonus of destruction drone.

It's basically a cheap motorbike with wings and an old Intel processors with rudimentary civilian Gps. Costs the same as motorbike. 

It's so much nosy and so slow that anyone can shoot it down

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580518271635566592

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Also, Taiwan has been try to argue the expulsion from UN is illegal under article 6 since 1998 (IIRC) it has no result and UN again rejected Taiwan membership to UN on the basis of Article 27 in 2008, so no, you don't really need to have UNSC recommendation or persistently violate UN Charter (which both Taiwan claim to not have) to be removed from UN or UNSC, otherwise Taiwanese case would be a miscarriage of justice, and you can go tell PRC that.


as I say that was not expulsion that handing China sit from Taipei to Peking as far as I'm aware un don't recognize two China . if I'm wrong please correct me on this matter.


jhungary said:


> It was an expulsion, otherwise if a change of representation was the only scope here, then Taiwan could be in UN because it was not named China, but it isn't.


tell that to *Ban Ki-moon *not me
his understanding of resolution 2758 was that it state Taiwan is part of China to say otherwise Taiwan must first declare independence , did they made such announcement ? again if I'm wrong please correct me.


jhungary said:


> What do you mean wrong? I have quote you the entire article.
> 
> A recommendation is a procedural, and under point 2, you do not need concurrent vote, which mean Veto does not apply.
> 
> Again, if veto is in play, explain to me how Taiwan loses UNSC seat?


*2. Decisions of the Security Council on procedural matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members.*

3. Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by *an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members*; provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting.”

even if Russia had to abstain you must make China agree to that . according what you post. well go and try to achieve the feat 



jhungary said:


> Again, go read up on *United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1668*
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1668 (XVI) was a resolution of the United Nations General Assembly that *determined that any proposal to change the representation of China at the UN would be deemed an "important question"* under the UN Charter which would therefore require a two-thirds majority vote. The motion for UN Resolution 1668 was raised in 1961 by United States, Australia, Japan, Italy and Colombia and passed with 61 UN Member States voted in favor of it, 34 UN Member States voted against it, 7 UN Member States abstaining, and 2 UN Member States non-voting. With its Resolution 2758 in 1971, the UN General Assembly voted with a two-thirds majority to change China's representation in the UN from the Republic of China to the People's Republic of China. Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which is entitled by the founding of the United Nations as the cornerstone of modern day diplomacy since the Vienna Congress, was signed and ratified by Republic of China on 18 April 1961 and 19 December 1969.
> 
> The keyword here is "ANY" which mean the replacement of ROC by PRC WOULD be deemed an important issue under UN Charter. Otherwise, what is "any" or are you saying PRC replace ROC does not belong to "ANY proposal to change the representation of China?"


in 1971 it didn't get vote and if you count the votes you see it didn't had 2/3rd of the votes but the majority of them


jhungary said:


> Actually, no, UN ceased to recongnize ROC as a country, which is not according to Article 6. and you cannot simply replace a government of a country and not saying there were no country to begin with? Then what is Taiwan then? Who are the people living in Taiwan? And why Taiwan is not a member of UN if they are simply replacing the "representation" of China?


wrong UN ceased to recognize ROC as China instead recognized PRC as China. the china always were recognized as a country by UN


Viet said:


> Initially, the funds will be used to procure 50 Ram II drones, unmanned aerial vehicles with a 3kg explosive payload from Ukrainian companies, according to _The Guardian_.


well the unmatched performance include 30km of range and 3kg payload 
on twitter they estimated if they can collect 10million they can get 50-100 of them that's 100000 - 200000$ per unit

compare them to shahed-136 with 2000+km range and 60kg warhead with a 20000$ price tag

honestly in west they dont have mercy on themselves even when their country is being pounded left and right



ziaulislam said:


> Well that is very low rate if it's true.
> I would expect 90% + to be shot down.
> 
> If it's 50% then something is wrong
> 
> The drone is basically a decoy/locate with bonus of destruction drone.
> 
> It's basically a cheap motorbike with wings and an old Intel processors with rudimentary civilian Gps. Costs the same as motorbike.
> 
> It's so much nosy and so slow that anyone can shoot it down


in nights you have problem seeing it



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580518271635566592


i say the first ever battle between two DJI drone , China won


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580305049368268802
Recent Russian attacks are only terror bombings and will have no impact on the outcome of this war.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> as I say that was not expulsion that handing China sit from Taipei to Peking as far as I'm aware un don't recognize two China . if I'm wrong please correct me on this matter.
> 
> tell that to *Ban Ki-moon *not me
> his understanding of resolution 2758 was that it state Taiwan is part of China to say otherwise Taiwan must first declare independence , did they made such announcement ? again if I'm wrong please correct me.
> 
> *2. Decisions of the Security Council on procedural matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members.*
> 
> 3. Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by *an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members*; provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting.”
> 
> even if Russia had to abstain you must make China agree to that . according what you post. well go and try to achieve the feat
> 
> 
> in 1971 it didn't get vote and if you count the votes you see it didn't had 2/3rd of the votes but the majority of them
> 
> wrong UN ceased to recognize ROC as China instead recognized PRC as China. the china always were recognized as a country by UN
> 
> well the unmatched performance include 30km of range and 3kg payload
> on twitter they estimated if they can collect 10million they can get 50-100 of them that's 100000 - 200000$ per unit
> 
> compare them to shahed-136 with 2000+km range and 60kg warhead with a 20000$ price tag
> 
> honestly in west they dont have mercy on themselves even when their country is being pounded left and right
> 
> 
> in nights you have problem seeing it
> 
> 
> i say the first ever battle between two DJI drone , China won


shahed-136 is cheaper because it is a copy from a chinese that originated from a copy from a German. If you make copy from copy then it becomes cheaper with every with copy version.
Then those suicide drones are probably made by Islamist fanatics or prisoners in Iran. That costs nothing to produce.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> as I say that was not expulsion that handing China sit from Taipei to Peking as far as I'm aware un don't recognize two China . if I'm wrong please correct me on this matter.


Already did. If they just don't recognize two China, why not admit Taiwan as "Taiwan"

This is NOT about the name China, this is about sovereignty, where did Taiwan go?

It's quite obvious PRC does not have control of ROC, if they simply trade off Taipei to Peking, then they would have given Taiwan statehood if they are not expelled. Becasue Taiwan would still have a seat in UN.......



Hack-Hook said:


> tell that to *Ban Ki-moon *not me
> his understanding of resolution 2758 was that it state Taiwan is part of China to say otherwise Taiwan must first declare independence , did they made such announcement ? again if I'm wrong please correct me.
> 
> *2. Decisions of the Security Council on procedural matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members.*
> 
> 3. Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by *an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members*; provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting.”
> 
> even if Russia had to abstain you must make China agree to that . according what you post. well go and try to achieve the feat



You don't need veto, in fact, I would argue article 6 does not even applies in Taiwan case, again, if Veto is needed to bump Taiwan off, that would never happen. Another issue is Article 6 also included a clause Taiwan need to be repeating violate UN charter, tell me which UN Charter ROC had repeatedly violate?

Which mean article 6 does not at all applies at all when Taiwan was kick out of UN. 



Hack-Hook said:


> in 1971 it didn't get vote and if you count the votes you see it didn't had 2/3rd of the votes but the majority of them



You do know abstained vote *DID NOT* count toward the total cast, right?

The result is 76 for to 35 against. That's 76/111 = 68%, you needed 66%.



Hack-Hook said:


> wrong UN ceased to recognize ROC as China instead recognized PRC as China. the china always were recognized as a country by UN



If only China is concerned and no sovereignty was concerned, then why reject Taiwan bid as Taiwan or why not just replace UNSC with PRC and then created another entity as Taiwan if Sovereignty of Taiwan is NOT an issue here? 

It's not about the country China, it's about the legality of sovereignty of ROC, whether or not they call themselves China is not the matter here. 

Dude, you do know you are talking about 2 separate steps, right? UN ceased to recognize ROC is a different step than UN recognize PRC as China. Because if this is so, you are discounting everyone in Taiwan as a member of the world, because you are not just replacing ROC, you are taking it out of the entire organisation.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> lol , we don't recognize the voting
> by the way let look at the other interesting voting to fight glorification of Nazism just happened one year ago, guess the one who said no are nazi countries ,the one who abstained nazi simpathizers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we again didn't recognize that voting



Nicholas Hill
Deputy U.S. Representative for ECOSOC
New York, New York
November 12, 2021

*Explanation of Vote at the Third Committee Adoption of the Combating Glorification of Nazism, Neo-Nazism and other Practices that Contribute to Fueling Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance Resolution*

AS DELIVERED

Chair – As we mark the end of World War I with Armistice Day, the United States also joins the world community in commemorating the valiant sacrifice, heroism, and years-long struggle of all allied nations in the defeat of Nazi Germany in 1945 to end the Second World War. The United States joins those in the international community in condemning the glorification of Nazism and all forms of racism, xenophobia, discrimination, and intolerance. In fighting against the murderous ideology of Nazism, the United States fought for the freedom, dignity and human rights of all individuals and our steadfast commitment to preserving and protecting fundamental freedoms, including the freedom of expression.

Today, however, the United States must once again express opposition to this resolution, a document most notable for its thinly veiled attempts to legitimize Russian disinformation campaigns denigrating neighboring nations and promoting the distorted Soviet narrative of much of contemporary European history, using the cynical guise of halting Nazi glorification.

The United States Supreme Court has consistently affirmed the constitutional right to freedom of speech and the rights of peaceful assembly and association, including by avowed Nazis, whose hatred and xenophobia are vile and widely scorned by the American people. We nevertheless firmly defend the constitutional rights of those who exercise their fundamental freedoms to combat intolerance and express strong opposition to the odious Nazi creed and others that espouse similar hatreds.

We have again attempted this year to improve this resolution by engaging in negotiations on the draft text. Despite consistently expressing our concerns with the Russian delegation and proposing revisions to improve the text and protect against unacceptable restrictions on freedom of expression, most of these recommendations were ignored. We discourage States from invoking Article 4 of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination and Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights in order to either silence unwelcome opinions or to excuse their failure to combat intolerance.
For these reasons, the United States has voted against each new version of this resolution since 2005 and is, again, compelled to vote “No” on this resolution, and calls on other States to do the same.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Enigma SIG said:


> What you on about?
> 
> Ukraine doing the same:
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/y26981


Remember Russia supposed to be an invading force. While Ukrainian playing defense.


----------



## dbc

jhungary said:


> On the other hand, in Super Tucano case, I would argue we should either go big or go home, we should send the Ukrainian some A-10 Thunderbolt instead, there are no point to muck around now, we need to end this quick, imagine what 24 A-10 can do to a Russian front.


It would take longer to train Ukrainian pilots on the A-10 as opposed to the Tucano.
The Tucano can be flown by civilians with a amateur pilots license. Plus, the Russians may see the A-10 as major escalation not so much with a crop duster.


----------



## ZeGerman

dbc said:


> It would take longer to train Ukrainian pilots on the A-10 as opposed to the Tucano.
> The Tucano can be flown by civilians with a amateur pilots license. Plus, the Russians may see the A-10 as major escalation not so much with a crop duster.


Ukraine does not have air superiority either though. Are A-10s even an option for frontlines in that case?


----------



## dbc

ZeGerman said:


> Ukraine does not have air superiority either though. Are A-10s even an option for frontlines in that case?



The Russians aren't flying combat sorties in Ukrainian air space so I think those A-10's are safe. Particularly if @jhungary has the right information from his sources that anti-air assets are forward deployed. I guess the only challenge is avoiding blue-on-blue incidents since Ukraine is operating a zoo of anti-air assets donated by the West.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

ZeGerman said:


> Ukraine does not have air superiority either though. Are A-10s even an option for frontlines in that case?


A-10 is considered an overkill that's why there's a lot of hesitancy to give it to ukraine. 

A better ground attack aircraft for the Ukrainian is either OV10 Bronco or the Super Tucano. 

If not there's always su25.


----------



## nufix

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Remember Russia supposed to be an invading force. While Ukrainian playing defense.



Defense is what Russia is basically doing now. They are entrenching themselves in the east, mainly to defend Donbas and Luhanks. The initiative is now in Ukraine's court as they are the ones that are counter attacking.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580518271635566592


Yea okay no. Just no, this is an actual verified news source that is using Phonk for this footage. Wtf is wrong with people? Firstly the phonk used has been overused since the past 3 months, or in fact since Phonk became popular on tiktok/YouTube shorts. Secondly what? Cringe. I hate these people that put such music over combat footage. Cringe and disrespectful.


----------



## jhungary

dbc said:


> It would take longer to train Ukrainian pilots on the A-10 as opposed to the Tucano.
> The Tucano can be flown by civilians with a amateur pilots license. Plus, the Russians may see the A-10 as major escalation not so much with a crop duster.


Well, I don't think there are any Aircraft transfer, A-10 or Tucano. That would involve way too big of an logistic issue. You don't just need to train for it, you also need a chain of maintenance issue to come with, I mean it will take years to get a logistic hub set up for those, and even if they can be done, it would most likely be in inside Poland or Ukrainian neighbor, Ukrainian airfield is still too hot to be able to service those aircraft, I mean it would be pointless if you pull a Tucano or A-10 to a hanger then getting it bomb by Russian Drone or Missile.......They may not be able to do that in the air, but they can certainly do that when they are hangered for repair and service.

If we look at how far US in Afghanistan before giving the Afghan Tucano, it would not be 5 or 6 years before the situation being stabilised. Which mean I just don't see any chance US or anyone will give Ukraine any air power

My previous reply is actually if we have to dream, dream big....



dbc said:


> The Russians aren't flying combat sorties in Ukrainian air space so I think those A-10's are safe. Particularly if @jhungary has the right information from his sources that anti-air assets are forward deployed. I guess the only challenge is avoiding blue-on-blue incidents since Ukraine is operating a zoo of anti-air assets donated by the West.



Well, we need to give them enough AA first, and then once their air situation stabilised, then we can invest in advance platform. 

At this point there are just not enough AA system to go around and protect everything.


----------



## Wood

Canada announces another military aid package for Ukraine as Russia presses air attacks





__





Loading…






www.cbc.ca

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russia has lost 80% of the tanks they send to Ukraine... If you want to invade Russia now is the time. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580054762933825537

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## Flight of falcon

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia has lost 80% of the tanks they send to Ukraine... If you want to invade Russia now is the time.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580054762933825537




No No they have lost all the tanks, cars and mopeds tooo...Honestly I made a grape showing that too...


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Second bridge ain't looking so stable


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580225856504414208

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## MeFishToo

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Second bridge ain't looking so stable
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580225856504414208


No trains or trucks on the bridge. Hardly any trafic at all.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Picture taken before a disaster

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580540897141268480


----------



## Easy When

The bridge will be up and running long before the bombed power plants and railway stations in Ukraine are.


----------



## PakFactor

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Picture taken before a disaster
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580540897141268480



ERAs will kill him before the projectiles lol


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Flight of falcon said:


> No No they have lost all the tanks, cars and mopeds tooo...Honestly I made a grape showing that too...


Seems plausible... 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580291630913187840


----------



## MeFishToo

Easy When said:


> The bridge will be up and running long before the power plants and railway stations in Ukraine are.


Sure. Russia prefere reparing railways 30 meters above water.


----------



## Paul2

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia has lost 80% of the tanks they send to Ukraine... If you want to invade Russia now is the time.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580054762933825537



And this means 3/4 of its tank force, and the most modern, and well maintained part of it.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Paul2 said:


> And this means 3/4 of its tank force, and the most modern, and well maintained part of it.


Russian army now only fit to serves as a punchline for a joke. 

If anyone still believes in Russian victory or buy Russian made equipments after this need to be either laughed at or be put in an insane asylum. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580259309069271043

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## 925boy

Oldman1 said:


> What makes you think they are suffering at a higher rate than the Russians?


cuz of ALL THE MILITARY CRAP RUSSia threw at Ukraine? RUssia's artillery is better, its air defense is better, its just stronger militarily, and Ukraine has been stupid also during many parts of this war, Ukraine already reported 10s of thousands dead, but yes, Russia probably lost 10-20K soldiers.


Oldman1 said:


> You still believe that 6k only dead BS?


probably not that low, but not 60K dead- thats propaganda- Ukraine's military ISNT that effective, dont kid yourself - it likely doesnt evne have the strength to keep fighting like this past this year- so much for all those saying "Ukraine will switch to hit and run asymmetrical warfare when the war grinds on"..lmao...Ukranians are fleeing ukraine after their lightss got cut off. lmao.


Oldman1 said:


> Russia loses 6k but needs to mobilize 300k.


because it needs more soldiers to hold onto all that territory it ook from Ukraine- you forget how huge Ukraine is? fighting is different from fighting and staying and holding securely - that requires alot more troops.


Oldman1 said:


> Hundreds of thousands of Russians are fleeing because they want no part in the war where their chances of surviving is very low.


but millions are mobilizing no? just wait - arent Ukranians fleeing after their electricty got denazified? i mean, they're such patriots, a lil inconvenience and they wanna exit?


Oldman1 said:


> You talk about mowing down so many Ukrainians yet you see Russia losing occupied territory in matter of weeks in Kharkiv and Kherson.


RUssia lost some of the territory, Ukraine cant even get any back now, and its tried for 10+ days to do so- cuz its exhausted also- small, broke azz, 3rd world military that people would've called stupid if they werent white.


Oldman1 said:


> And now the first group of so called 300k of questionable troops are surrendering or dying in droves.


where? lmao--- yo utell youself these tales so u can live in your denial- Ukraine is getting killed as we speak now - no water, roads, rail, electricity, damn even Afghanistan isnt that bad now.


Oldman1 said:


> Afghanistan was a different war.


its all war though, dont get into any specifics to distract- war is war if your troops and military are formally involved and active in the conflict, end of story.


Oldman1 said:


> Just like Vietnam was a different war and yet people constantly reminding the U.S. about how bad it would be in Gulf War just prior to fighting in Desert Storm yet we saw how that went, the so called Mother of all Battles or Vietnams. The war in Ukraine is more conventional.


oh sharap!

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## Paul2

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russian army now only fit to serves as a punchline for a joke.
> 
> If anyone still believes in Russian victory or buy Russian made equipments after this need to be either laughed at or be put in an insane asylum.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580259309069271043



They can pull 1-2 more thousands of T55-T62s from storage, but those are patently pre-historic. I.E. 54 has no steering wheel, only levers. They never had upgrades for even most basic modern sights with own velocity correction. They are effectively useless for firing on the move, despite a basic stabiliser. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-54/55_fire_control_system

Paradoxically, T62 are in better condition in Russian storage plants because they were put to storage in an organised fashion, before the collapse of the USSR. Tons of T72s on the other hand, were pretty much dumped under open air at depots, and then chaotically scavenged for parts, and materials of value.

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## 925boy

ZeGerman said:


> Iran supports Russia militarily. This speaks volumes. More then their voting. They are clearly in pro-russia camp. Their drones being used to hit civilian infrastructure (no more electricity and water for those ukranians through winter—-posts from russia millbloggers)


Iran had to support Russia after NATO cowards couldnt attack for over 40 years...Iran got bored and knew it had to help RUssia drain NATO in Ukraine- this is one of US and NATO's biggest mistakes from the Ukraine war- its integrating Russia and Iran fully ,and trust me, you dont want that- but you would already know that though -NATO's been scared to fight Russia or CHina or Iran or North Korea for decades..your fancy toys called weapons dont impress us, cuz your actual war record is horrible.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> that was not a vote by 2/3rd but it become a vote by majority
> as un members decided its not important enough to be a vote by 2/3rd and rejected USA proposal
> 
> by the way let look at the un charter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charter of the United Nations - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more exactly at article 6
> 
> 
> what happened to Taiwan is not applicable here in that they didn't throw out a member they gave its sit to another group that they believed represent the land and country better , now go and try get that recommendation about Russia from UNSC if you can
> 
> in short article 18 you quote only become to effect if article 6 come to effect first


Russia cannot be expelled by the GA as long as it is on the UNSC, but the GA can suspend Russias right to attend UN meetings according to Article 18.
Once it cannot attend meetings, it cannot veto resolutions, and the UNSC can recommend that Russia is kicked out.
China can of course veto such a resolution.

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russian army now only fit to serves as a punchline for a joke.
> 
> If anyone still believes in Russian victory or buy Russian made equipments after this need to be either laughed at or be put in an insane asylum.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580259309069271043


At some point I think next year Putin will give WW1 rifles to his soldiers to die in Ukraine. Russia economy is all about selling oil and gas. If he can’t sell or sells too little he will earn too little to finance the war.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580596743162384384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580596435682066435

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580434942923677697

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## Viet

The Nato will deliver hundreds of jammers to Ukraine. These electromagnetic interfering transmitters will render russian and Iran drones useless.










Liveblog: ++ "Fortschritte" bei Gesprächen zu AKW Saporischschja ++


IAEA-Chef Grossi hat sich positiv über Gespräche zum AKW Saporischschja geäußert. Die Ukraine könnte mutmaßliche russische Kriegsverbrecher nach Den Haag ausliefern. Alle Entwicklungen vom Donnerstag zum Nachlesen.




www.tagesschau.de

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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> Iran had to support Russia after NATO cowards couldnt attack for over 40 years...Iran got bored and knew it had to help RUssia drain NATO in Ukraine- this is one of US and NATO's biggest mistakes from the Ukraine war- its integrating Russia and Iran fully ,and trust me, you dont want that- but you would already know that though -NATO's been scared to fight Russia or CHina or Iran or North Korea for decades..your fancy toys called weapons dont impress us, cuz your actual war record is horrible.


Sure buddy. Nato fears all these pariah states soooo much. 


In meantime NK threathens nukes to get grain shipments to feed its starving.

Iran will collapse one of these days as the young generation is fed up with medieval ayatollahs. 

Russia is in risk of being balkanised after their misadventure in ukraine which is like vietnam on steroids. 

Only China is a real near peer (russia just fell of that pedestal hard).

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## zectech

Wow. Someone is smart on the forums. In 2020, said Russia wants to invade neighbors. That you cannot give Putin excuses to invade because Putin wants to invade, nonetheless.






Azerbaijan Armenian War


good find.. but Russia wanted Crimea, but why Russia would fight for Armenia? Russian historical ties to Armenia. putin has nearly indicated if Azeri forces enter Armenian land in Armenia, Russia would intervene. putin wants the Baltic States in sphere and probably Azerbaijan too. Though the...



defence.pk





Later in the thread, I say, Putin wants the old USSR.

Wow. Somebody said Russians were genocidal crazies back in 2020:



Azerbaijan Armenian War



That Assad and Iran back genocidal Russians. And are wrong doing so.







The debate over whether to use the term genocide is moot. If your tribe/nation/capital has genocided a people in the past, you can't wage war on them, or else it is the continuation of the genocidal war. If the Swedes killed off half the population of Finns in the 1800s, and wants to invade again. They cannot without genocide. Once a serial killer, you are always a serial killer. If you kill "only" one more, you are a serial killer, even though it was "only one more". It gets tallied to the list you did. The murdered Ukrainians in this criminal war by the Russians gets tallied to the list of Ukrainians killed by Moscow during the Holodomor. Chechens have been genocided by the Russians three times. Every time they get killed by Russians, it is more to that list of evil deeds by Russians against Chechens. If the Ottoman/Young Turks descendants invade Armenia and force them to march and starve to death into the desert, this is the continuation of the Armenian Genocide even if only 12 die on the march. With only 12 dead Armenians in the entire conflict, it is part of a genocide by the Ottomans onto the Armenians because the genocide already happened in the 1910s, the crime continues. This newer attack is the continuation. The evil stain remains. A rape victim cannot be touched by her rapist, without the horrors returning. It is a crime for the rapist to grab and touch a former rape victim. It is the rape starting again to the victim. Other men can grab and touch her. Not the evil Russian rapist. In genociding, you lose privileges of war against that people. In raping some woman, you lose the privilege to touch her. Both of these are again crimes if you go after Ukraine or that woman again.

This is one of the reasons why barbarians are evil, and civilized are good. You cannot change a barbarian to a civilized. The Russian barbarians are going to barbar.


----------



## zectech

If the US reforms as the Union of Socialist Soviet States of America and starts to massacre Indians again. The Indians won't think oh, this is something brand new. No, the Indians would know this is a repeat/continuation of the events of the 1800s by Americans. Communist or Capitalists. USA or USSSA. Russians are criminals from generation to generation. The objective is to keep the Russians from murdering their neighbors. The UN vote showed that most the the global community opposes Russia murdering and genociding their neighbors.


----------



## Dalit

LOL there you have it.









India abstains on UNGA resolution on Russia, says decision ‘consistent’


India’s permanent representative to the UN, Ruchira Kamboj, said, “My prime minister has said unequivocally that this cannot be an era of war. With this firm resolve to strive for a peaceful solution through dialogue and diplomacy, India has decided to abstain”.




www.hindustantimes.com





India yet again chooses Russia over its European and American allies.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Beast said:


> But but... China don't have 580000 or a million death from covids. I guess life is cheap in USA or India.
> 
> 
> You will not be surprised news about Ukraine soldiers reach Moscow and successfully remove Putin from these western comedy media.


Says who, the Chinese state run media.
Great source 🙄


----------



## Dalit

LOL look at this. As Ukraine gets slayed like a sacrificial lamb of the US/NATO the Europeans decide to have their air defences. How convenient.









Russia strikes Ukrainian towns as Nato plans Europe air defences


At least 26 people have been killed since Monday in the Russian missile attacks.



www.dawn.com

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## RoadAmerica

Cash GK said:


> Look what I am trying to say is.. their oil sale is almost the same they getting weapons along side money in exchange. Other side Ukraine are getting weapons and European tax payers are paying for them or they getting those weapons on loans.....


Their oil sales are not the same, not even close

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## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> Their oil sales are not the same, not even close



LOL your so-called allies don't even support you in the Ukraine war.

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## beast89

ziaulislam said:


> Westerns are been brain washed.
> Look at middle and lower income Americans and Europeans they have been decimated inflation is rampant and retirement funds are down by 70%
> 
> Yet they told Russia is in ruines..
> 
> Well Russia is doing much better economically due to their energy exports


transfer of public tax money to private military industrial complex money is the name of the game


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580626179044016130

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580625350606098432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580597610796023814

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580575937028292608

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580305049368268802
> Recent Russian attacks are only terror bombings and will have no impact on the outcome of this war.



And with each of these terror attacks - western resolve becomes even stronger and their hesitation to provide systems to Ukraines becomes easier. 

Just look at how many SAM systems Ukraine will be getting. There is no strategy to Russia's actions.

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## RoadAmerica

serenity said:


> The troll said that the US has nothing equivalent to S-70 close to operational. You replied with "ever heard of the X-47".
> 
> The X-47 is not close to operational. In fact the X-47 is cancelled. Has never been operational and will never be operational. So your response to him is hilarious and incorrect. Sit down boy because you need to get smart first.


Sorry it was a demonstrator hence they had the technology in ‘11 that’s the point 
Go sit down yourself


----------



## Ali_Baba

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Second bridge ain't looking so stable
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580225856504414208



If you look at some of the other pictures on that twitter thread - the supports are damaged alot aswell - so it will take them some time to fix all that.

Currently the remaining road can only do light traffic - which right now is people trying to leave Crimea for good.


----------



## The SC




----------



## kingQamaR

Ali_Baba said:


> And with each of these terror attacks - western resolve becomes even stronger and their hesitation to provide systems to Ukraines becomes easier.
> 
> Just look at how many SAM systems Ukraine will be getting. There is no strategy to Russia's actions.



I'm no fan of Putin and I'm no diplomat, however, I do know that when a very dangerous man, who can extinct the entire human species with a nuclear war, is cornered, you don't humiliate him. Offer him a face saving way out for God Sake.


----------



## Ali_Baba

kingQamaR said:


> I'm no fan of Putin and I'm no diplomat, however, I do know that when a very dangerous man, who can extinct the entire human species with a nuclear war, is cornered, you don't humiliate him. Offer him a face saving way out for God Sake.



They offered him that face saving when overtook Crimea and Donbas and also parts of Georgia - but - like Hitler - Putins appetite to conquer land cannot be extinguished that easily.

He cannot use nukes against Ukraine as the outfall will go to Russia/Moscow as Ukraine is so close to Russia(the whole point of the war from his perspective) and he cannot use them against NATO - nukes are a empty threat..

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## zectech

zectech said:


> View attachment 886635
> 
> 
> The debate over whether to use the term genocide is moot. If your tribe/nation/capital has genocided a people in the past, you can't wage war on them, or else it is the continuation of the genocidal war. If the Swedes killed off half the population of Finns in the 1800s, and wants to invade again. They cannot without genocide. Once a serial killer, you are always a serial killer. If you kill "only" one more, you are a serial killer, even though it was "only one more". It gets tallied to the list you did. The murdered Ukrainians in this criminal war by the Russians gets tallied to the list of Ukrainians killed by Moscow during the Holodomor. Chechens have been genocided by the Russians three times. Every time they get killed by Russians, it is more to that list of evil deeds by Russians against Chechens. If the Ottoman/Young Turks descendants invade Armenia and force them to march and starve to death into the desert, this is the continuation of the Armenian Genocide even if only 12 die on the march. With only 12 dead Armenians in the entire conflict, it is part of a genocide by the Ottomans onto the Armenians because the genocide already happened in the 1910s, the crime continues. This newer attack is the continuation. The evil stain remains. A rape victim cannot be touched by her rapist, without the horrors returning. It is a crime for the rapist to grab and touch a former rape victim. It is the rape starting again to the victim. Other men can grab and touch her. Not the evil Russian rapist. In genociding, you lose privileges of war against that people. In raping some woman, you lose the privilege to touch her. Both of these are again crimes if you go after Ukraine or that woman again.



This ethical norm is why Ukraine has every right to seek friends, partnerships and alliances to protect from genocidal Russians. This is about humanity and human decency. Same with a raped woman who seeks friends and protection with whoever she wants, especially when these relationships piss off her rapist. You know you are doing something right when your genocider or criminal rapist gets visibly angry over you defending yourself from them. Russians are criminal genociders, nothing more. Russians = orcs/barbarians.

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## Shawnee

Three kills and counting …
Gimme more fighters.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> shahed-136 is cheaper because it is a copy from a chinese that originated from a copy from a German. If you make copy from copy then it becomes cheaper with every with copy version.
> Then those suicide drones are probably made by Islamist fanatics or prisoners in Iran. That costs nothing to produce.


LOL
Its developement of Shahed-131 which was based on IAI Harpy
wonder from where china and german come here and your logic sucks if european want to copy shahed-136 the price would be around 100000-200000 dollar


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Already did. If they just don't recognize two China, why not admit Taiwan as "Taiwan"


as i said did Taiwan declared independence , thats news to me


jhungary said:


> You don't need veto, in fact, I would argue article 6 does not even applies in Taiwan case, again, if Veto is needed to bump Taiwan off, that would never happen. Another issue is Article 6 also included a clause Taiwan need to be repeating violate UN charter, tell me which UN Charter ROC had repeatedly violate?
> 
> Which mean article 6 does not at all applies at all when Taiwan was kick out of UN.


ask Taiwanese about rule of generals there and they tell you how democratic it was and more importantly article-6 never used against china , Taiwan was never a member of UN it was china who was a member, before 1971 the delegation was selected in Taipei after 1971 General assembly rulled that the delegation must be selected by peking


jhungary said:


> You do know abstained vote *DID NOT* count toward the total cast, right?
> 
> The result is 76 for to 35 against. That's 76/111 = 68%, you needed 66%.


wrong again abstained votes will be counted toward the outcome, its stated as 2/3 0f the total votes that include yes, no and abstain , if a country don't vote or don't participate in the voting that wont be counted . again go and look at the number of votes and sum them up , you see several country like Spain and some other members didn't participate , so it was a vote by majority not a vote by 2/3rd , USA wanted to make it a vote by 2/3, they failed if they succeed to do that today it was Taipei who selected china delegate in un not Peking if you read the wiki article about the resolution completely it's explained there 


jhungary said:


> Taiwan bid as Taiwan or why not just replace UNSC with PRC and then created another entity as Taiwan if Sovereignty of Taiwan is NOT an issue here?


because resolution 2758 recognize Taiwan as part of china and Taiwan never declared independence , they want to join UN , good they had to first declare independence



jhungary said:


> Already did. If they just don't recognize two China, why not admit Taiwan as "Taiwan"


as i said did Taiwan declared independence , thats news to me


jhungary said:


> You don't need veto, in fact, I would argue article 6 does not even applies in Taiwan case, again, if Veto is needed to bump Taiwan off, that would never happen. Another issue is Article 6 also included a clause Taiwan need to be repeating violate UN charter, tell me which UN Charter ROC had repeatedly violate?
> 
> Which mean article 6 does not at all applies at all when Taiwan was kick out of UN.


ask Taiwanese about rule of generals there and they tell you how democratic it was and more importantly article-6 never used against china , Taiwan was never a member of UN it was china who was a member, before 1971 the delegation was selected in Taipei after 1971 General assembly rulled that the delegation must be selected by peking


jhungary said:


> You do know abstained vote *DID NOT* count toward the total cast, right?
> 
> The result is 76 for to 35 against. That's 76/111 = 68%, you needed 66%.


wrong again abstained votes will be counted toward the outcome, its stated as 2/3 0f the total votes that include yes, no and abstain , if a country don't vote or don't participate in the voting that wont be counted . again go and look at the number of votes and sum them up , you see several country like Spain and some other members didn't participate , so it was a vote by majority not a vote by 2/3rd , USA wanted to make it a vote by 2/3, they failed if they succeed to do that today it was Taipei who selected china delegate in un not Peking if you read the wiki article about the resolution completely it's explained there 


jhungary said:


> Taiwan bid as Taiwan or why not just replace UNSC with PRC and then created another entity as Taiwan if Sovereignty of Taiwan is NOT an issue here?


because resolution 2758 recognize Taiwan as part of china and Taiwan never declared independence , they want to join UN , good they had to first declare independence


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia cannot be expelled by the GA as long as it is on the UNSC, but the GA can suspend Russias right to attend UN meetings according to Article 18.
> Once it cannot attend meetings, it cannot veto resolutions, and the UNSC can recommend that Russia is kicked out.
> China can of course veto such a resolution.


wonder why you guys had to go to such mental gymnastics to reach some conclusion . first general assembly cant suspend Russia for no reason .
2nd Russia cant veto a resolution discussing Russia it had to abstain , its the case for all permanent member . that's why we have china , England and France there , they do the Veto in such cases , its a close elite group that everybody have the back of each other


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580565283193819137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580561245455122432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580564300326129665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580629656491163648

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## MeFishToo

kingQamaR said:


> I'm no fan of Putin and I'm no diplomat, however, I do know that when a very dangerous man, who can extinct the entire human species with a nuclear war, is cornered, you don't humiliate him. Offer him a face saving way out for God Sake.


What makes you think Putin is suicidal?


----------



## zectech

Orcs being orcs.

When this is happening, you are having many Ukrainian civilian deaths. The same thing happened in India with the coronavirUS. You had Indian former politicians dying, you hate sitting politicians dying, you had healthy Indian athletes dying... meaning there were millions of deaths that were not being reported by using basic math.

I waited for verified Western media reporting this. A fellow from the Atlantic Council:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580643087734689793
Still waiting for the BBC or other Western media to confirm.

What are the odds that the only civilian Ukrainian deliberate death by Russians is a conductor of the Kherson Philharmonic. There are many more. This helps prove that the stories of mass rapes are true too. And the stories that retired Ukrainian veterans are being targeted and shot. These are the stories that weeping and mournful Ukrainians are telling the world. The evils of Russia's exposed deeds prove the stories true.

Russia seeks to politically neutralize opposition to Russia in Ukraine through a terror campaign. Terrorize civilians to obey. Terrorize veterans and opposition. Terrorize non-compilers. Because Russia is a terrorist state. Has been for three decades. You are only learning about this recently because you are listening to the Ukrainians with tears in their eyes.

Russia has the worst criminal gangs on the globe, ruling Russia. It is clear from the press, that barely covers this. It is clear from basic study of Russia.

Putinite trolls: "Oh wow, the bully in school that sent 9 kids to the hospital and disappeared another kid... supports me... that means that bully is fighting for freedom. I support that bully"

Does Iran realize that when Iran was supporting the genocide in Chechnya, Tony Blair was also supporting Russia. That Trump and Trumper Putinites support Putin vs Ukraine. Llisten to Tucker. Does Iran realize that the Ukrainians were already genocided by Russians. And that Israel is trying, yet not yet succeeded in genociding the Palestinians. 5 million Ukrainians dead from a genocide by Russians and Moscow. Yet, Palestinians cry over a thousand massacred by Israelis. These are not comparable. Israel trying to genocide Palestinians, yes. Have they, no. Has Moscow genocided Ukrainians, yes. Can Moscow touch a Ukrainian without it being genocide, no. Can a Russian, no. Russia is a terrorist state. Russians are orcs. Russia/Putin is a cesspool of evil.

What is Russia going to do, nuke Ukraine and blame the USA. That would be typically Russia, as they false flag so often.

Or nuke Ukraine and blame the Muslim Chechens as is the favourite to blame by Russian and Western stupid security forces. Or have Putin tell Muslim Chechen Kadyrov to take the blame.

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## Shawnee

Less known Iranian drone capability for air warfare

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580571768212754432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580582209261473792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580621635765547008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580494805016096768

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580370184665149440

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> The Nato will deliver hundreds of jammers to Ukraine. These electromagnetic interfering transmitters will render russian and Iran drones useless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liveblog: ++ "Fortschritte" bei Gesprächen zu AKW Saporischschja ++
> 
> 
> IAEA-Chef Grossi hat sich positiv über Gespräche zum AKW Saporischschja geäußert. Die Ukraine könnte mutmaßliche russische Kriegsverbrecher nach Den Haag ausliefern. Alle Entwicklungen vom Donnerstag zum Nachlesen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de


we will be glad if you manage to jam our drones


----------



## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> Sure. Russia prefere reparing railways 30 meters above water.





MeFishToo said:


> No trains or trucks on the bridge. Hardly any trafic at all.


all it shown id the railroad bridge only need a paint and some guard changed


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Looks like American electorate are speaking out against this war waged against Russia by the West. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580399538979753989

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580614473563639808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580659113704312832

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## Hack-Hook

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 886670
> 
> 
> Less know Iranian drone capability for air warfare


by looking at the missile that is Azaraksh not fatter , so its geared for ground attack


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580628609156648960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580604831433363457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580601733192876045

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## kingQamaR

MeFishToo said:


> What makes you think Putin is suicidal?



Putin is so focused on preserving his reputation and winning the war that he's not interested in peace talks. Putin would commit mass executions he can not afford to loose his own head Ukraine loss


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580588230634004482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580564899050426371

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580557040249806849

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580634817967771649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580633613594263553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580617571111292928
NATO is planning nuclear maneuvers in Northern Europe in the 2 weeks time..So this is obviously a Russian proactive move!

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> as i said did Taiwan declared independence , thats news to me



I didn't say they declare independence. 

I said they LOST their sovereignty, that's the cause, and the result is they lost the UN Membership.

They WERE independent as per UN before 1970. That's why they have UN membership.



Hack-Hook said:


> ask Taiwanese about rule of generals there and they tell you how democratic it was and more importantly article-6 never used against china , *Taiwan was never a member of UN it was china* who was a member, before 1971 the delegation was selected in Taipei after 1971 General assembly rulled that the delegation must be selected by peking



ROC WAS a member of UN. You still don't get it. You were the representation of some country in UN, then a vote said you weren't then what? If they did not expel you, how do you get replace?? UN won't do what landlord do just clear out your desk and plaquette and put it on the side walk in New York and pretend you never live here.

As I said, ROC/Taiwan LOST their sovereignty, they were rejected from UN. This is not just UN said "Okay, please send someone from Beijing next year" 



Hack-Hook said:


> wrong again abstained votes will be counted toward the outcome, its stated as 2/3 0f the total votes that include yes, no and abstain , if a country don't vote or don't participate in the voting that wont be counted . again go and look at the number of votes and sum them up , you see several country like Spain and some other members didn't participate , so it was a vote by majority not a vote by 2/3rd , USA wanted to make it a vote by 2/3, they failed if they succeed to do that today it was Taipei who selected china delegate in un not Peking if you read the wiki article about the resolution completely it's explained there
> 
> because resolution 2758 recognize Taiwan as part of china and Taiwan never declared independence , they want to join UN , good they had to first declare independence



Dude, It DOES NOT count. 

Let's use another UNGA vote in April, when UN kicked Russia out of Human Right Council

That vote is article 18 (as it involved removing a member's privilege and duty, as stated in point 2, article 18, I have already quoted it before, not going to look it up again)

The result is 93 (F) 24 (A) and 58 Abstain.

Tell me if Abstain count, which mean you will need 140 to pass that resolution, so how the hack they passed the resolution? Because we all know Russia is EXPELLED from the Human Right Council.









United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/3 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Also, on another note, had article 6 ever applies to Russia being kick out of Human Right Council? I don't remember seeing a UNSC vote to recommend Russia being kick out of Human Right Council?

So no, you are wrong in both counts.

*1.) ABSTAIN VOTE DOES NOT COUNT IN GENERAL TOTAL.
2.) ARTICLE 6 DOES NOT APPLIES WHEN YOU TRIGGER ARTICLE 18 CLAUSE 2. WHICH INCLUDED the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Member*


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580448599988920320

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580603516254818305

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580527480917852160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580373181130739712

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## jhungary

925boy said:


> -reported-


Well, I am just going to say I am not going to reply to you anymore, your post is reported for personal insult, and I will do the same from now on everytime you post this to me.

You don't worth any of my time anymore.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> I didn't say they declare independence.
> 
> I said they LOST their sovereignty, that's the cause, and the result is they lost the UN Membership.
> 
> They WERE independent as per UN before 1970. That's why they have UN membership.


it was not about Taiwan



jhungary said:


> ROC WAS a member of UN. You still don't get it. You were the representation of some country in UN, then a vote said you weren't then what? If they did not expel you, how do you get replace?? UN won't do what landlord do just clear out your desk and plaquette and put it on the side walk in New York and pretend you never live here.
> 
> As I said, ROC/Taiwan LOST their sovereignty, they were rejected from UN. This is not just UN said "Okay, please send someone from Beijing next year"


then you get it wrong. china was member of UN not ROC . they were claiming they are china PRC claimed they are china . UN said PRC is china if ROC want to join UN first must announce its a country separate from CHINA


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580624635041058816

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
2


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## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> all it shown id the railroad bridge only need a paint and some guard changed


Russia must be out of paint then.



kingQamaR said:


> Putin is so focused on preserving his reputation and winning the war that he's not interested in peace talks. Putin would commit mass executions he can not afford to loose his own head Ukraine loss


Going nuclear is the end of him. Thats not going to happen. Russia do have an interest it keeping these nuclear speculations going, just to scare the world and maybe make us step down. We should just ignore it, since we cant control it anyway. If he has the capability, and wants to do it, nobody can stop it anyway.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> it was not about Taiwan
> 
> 
> then you get it wrong. china was member of UN not ROC . they were claiming they are china PRC claimed they are china . UN said PRC is china if ROC want to join UN first must announce its a country separate from CHINA


It's more like you don't understand what I said or the reasoning. 

China is China, yes, China is a member, which was represented by ROC before 1971. After 2758, it was represented by PRC.

For you, that change mean ROC delegate move out, PRC delegate move in. 

For me, I said it is a LOT more complicated than that, Because the entity might have been gone, you still need to take care of the sovereignty issue. ROC loses the seat NOT because the seat China should be represented by PRC not ROC, ROC loses that seat because UN NO LONGER RECONGNIZE ROC sovereignty over China. 

In effect, UN before 1970 recognize China is the extension of Taiwan Island. After 1971 UN recognize Taiwan Island is an extension of Chinese sovereignty. That is why when Taiwan wants to join with the name Taiwan, they can't because they were presented by China. Hence TAIWAN Island lost their sovereignty. That is the reason why ROC is being removed from UN.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580667283344527360

Reactions: Like Like:
5


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580373181130739712

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580571768212754432


Second strike at 0.24 is a fail. The drone is hitting a tree not the armored vehiccle.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580373181130739712


The drone's shrapnel after the mig shot it down is the cause of the plane's crash. 

Unless of course that's what u insinuating.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Looks like American electorate are speaking out against this war waged against Russia by the West.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580399538979753989


AOC doesn’t speak for anyone, she’s a fraud


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Ukrainian receives some locally sourced tank. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580574413220876289
Russia. The only country that somehow capable of bombing itself. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580518237757792256

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Dude, It DOES NOT count.
> 
> Let's use another UNGA vote in April, when UN kicked Russia out of Human Right Council
> 
> That vote is article 18 (as it involved removing a member's privilege and duty, as stated in point 2, article 18, I have already quoted it before, not going to look it up again)
> 
> The result is 93 (F) 24 (A) and 58 Abstain.
> 
> Tell me if Abstain count, which mean you will need 140 to pass that resolution, so how the hack they passed the resolution? Because we all know Russia is EXPELLED from the Human Right Council.


mistake of Reuters that came into the wiki
here is article 18

_Voting_​

_Article 18_​

Each member of the General Assembly shall have one vote.
Decisions of the General Assembly on important questions shall be made by a *two-thirds majority of the members present and voting*. These questions shall include: recommendations with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, the election of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, the election of the members of the Economic and Social Council, the election of members of the Trusteeship Council in accordance with paragraph 1(c) of Article 86, the admission of new Members to the United Nations, the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Members, questions relating to the operation of the trusteeship system, and budgetary questions.
Decisions on other questions, including the determination of additional categories of questions to be decided by a two-thirds majority, shall be made by a majority of the members present and voting.
now about what is super majority , well usually you are right and it don't include abstain or abscence but there is a but, if stated otherwise then it can include abstain and here it is stated *two-thirds majority of the members present and voting*. and i believe abstain is also mean a vote . if you say no abstain is not vote , then explain what is the difference of abstain and absence




__





Supermajority - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






jhungary said:


> Also, on another note, had article 6 ever applies to Russia being kick out of Human Right Council? I don't remember seeing a UNSC vote to recommend Russia being kick out of Human Right Council?
> 
> So no, you are wrong in both counts.
> 
> *1.) ABSTAIN VOTE DOES NOT COUNT IN GENERAL TOTAL.
> 2.) ARTICLE 6 DOES NOT APPLIES WHEN YOU TRIGGER ARTICLE 18 CLAUSE 2. WHICH INCLUDED the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Member*


here what happened
On 29 September 1971, a second draft resolution, A/L.632 and Add.l and 2, sponsored by 22 members including the U.S., was proposed declaring that any proposal to deprive the Republic of China of representation was an important question under Article 18 of the UN Charter, and thus would require a two-thirds supermajority for approval.[4]

On 29 September 1971, a third draft resolution, A/L.632 and Add.l and 2, sponsored by 19 members including the U.S., was proposed by which the Assembly would affirm the right of representation of the People's Republic of China and recommend that it be seated as one of the five permanent members of the Security Council, while also affirming the continuing right of representation of the Republic of China

On 25 October 1971, the voting took place. In the first vote held, the Assembly rejected the U.S. backed proposal that the matter would require a supermajority vote — the 'important question motion'.[4] The Assembly then voted on a separate U.S. proposal that the words "and to expel forthwith the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek from the place which they unlawfully occupied at the United Nations and in all the organizations related to it" be removed from the draft resolution. This motion would have allowed the PRC to join the UN as "China's representative",[_clarification needed_] while allowing the ROC to remain a regular UN member (if there had been enough votes for it). The motion was rejected by a vote of 61 to 51, with 16 abstentions.

At this point the representative of the Republic of China, Ambassador Liu Chieh, stated "in view of the frenzy and irrational manner that has been exhibited in this hall, the delegation of the Republic of China has now decided not to take part in any further proceedings of this General Assembly."[6] He said the "ideals upon which the UN was founded" had been "betrayed".[7]

The Assembly then adopted draft Albanian proposed resolution A/L. 630 and Add.l and 2, by a roll-call vote of 76 to 35, with 17 abstentions, as Resolution 2758. The Beijing government began representing China at the UN from 15 November 1971 and its delegates were seated at the UN Security Council meeting held on 23 November 1971, the first such meeting where representatives of the Beijing government represented China.[4]



MeFishToo said:


> Russia must be out of paint then.


the bridge work thats enough


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> For me, I said it is a LOT more complicated than that, Because the entity might have been gone, you still need to take care of the sovereignty issue. ROC loses the seat NOT because the seat China should be represented by PRC not ROC, ROC loses that seat because UN NO LONGER RECONGNIZE ROC sovereignty over China.
> 
> In effect, UN before 1970 recognize China is the extension of Taiwan Island. After 1971 UN recognize Taiwan Island is an extension of Chinese sovereignty. That is why when Taiwan wants to join with the name Taiwan, they can't because they were presented by China. Hence TAIWAN Island lost their sovereignty. That is the reason why ROC is being removed from UN.


no they didn't lost sovereignity as it don't need a UN sit and as i said , there is a solution , declare independent and join the way is open , well sort of


The State submits an application to the Secretary-General and a letter formally stating that it accepts the obligations under the Charter.
The Security Council considers the application. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of 9 of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members — China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America — have voted against the application.
If the Council recommends admission, the recommendation is presented to the General Assembly for consideration. A two-thirds majority vote is necessary in the Assembly for admission of a new State.
Membership becomes effective the date the resolution for admission is adopted.


----------



## ziaulislam

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580305049368268802
> Recent Russian attacks are only terror bombings and will have no impact on the outcome of this war.


As I predicted Russia will escalate
It has just started

Russia is at level 1 if we call Syria level 10.

The high oil prices mean it can keep doing it buying cheap stuff from Iran china north Korea or anyone who will sell.

Ultimately USA public will get tired
Russia won't

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> mistake of Reuters that came into the wiki
> here is article 18
> 
> _Voting_​
> 
> _Article 18_​
> 
> Each member of the General Assembly shall have one vote.
> Decisions of the General Assembly on important questions shall be made by a *two-thirds majority of the members present and voting*. These questions shall include: recommendations with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, the election of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, the election of the members of the Economic and Social Council, the election of members of the Trusteeship Council in accordance with paragraph 1(c) of Article 86, the admission of new Members to the United Nations, the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Members, questions relating to the operation of the trusteeship system, and budgetary questions.
> Decisions on other questions, including the determination of additional categories of questions to be decided by a two-thirds majority, shall be made by a majority of the members present and voting.
> now about what is super majority , well usually you are right and it don't include abstain or abscence but there is a but, if stated otherwise then it can include abstain and here it is stated *two-thirds majority of the members present and voting*. and i believe abstain is also mean a vote . if you say no abstain is not vote , then explain what is the difference of abstain and absence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supermajority - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



What mistake?

You failed to interpret the actual meaning of Article 18. 

It's *ALWAYS* for vs against. It has been since 1945, the abstained *DOES NOT COUNT* toward the total vote. 

again, a very simple question, if it's super-majority and abstain also counted as a vote as you "believed", explain to me how That resolution pass with 94 for and 58 abstain. with supermajority applies. 

Abstain means I am there but "I don't want to vote" by the way, but you do not take side of an issue, it's the same as you are NOT there and you CANNOT take side of an issue, 

What you believe is wrong. Because things literally not going the way you believe. And that's quite final, don't you think? Because Russia DID get kick out of Human Right Council with 94 to 25 with 58 abstain. I don't know what you believe, but that was the direct result.



Hack-Hook said:


> here what happened
> On 29 September 1971, a second draft resolution, A/L.632 and Add.l and 2, sponsored by 22 members including the U.S., was proposed declaring that any proposal to deprive the Republic of China of representation was an important question under Article 18 of the UN Charter, and thus would require a two-thirds supermajority for approval.[4]
> 
> On 29 September 1971, a third draft resolution, A/L.632 and Add.l and 2, sponsored by 19 members including the U.S., was proposed by which the Assembly would affirm the right of representation of the People's Republic of China and recommend that it be seated as one of the five permanent members of the Security Council, while also affirming the continuing right of representation of the Republic of China
> 
> On 25 October 1971, the voting took place. In the first vote held, the Assembly rejected the U.S. backed proposal that the matter would require a supermajority vote — the 'important question motion'.[4] The Assembly then voted on a separate U.S. proposal that the words "and to expel forthwith the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek from the place which they unlawfully occupied at the United Nations and in all the organizations related to it" be removed from the draft resolution. This motion would have allowed the PRC to join the UN as "China's representative",[_clarification needed_] while allowing the ROC to remain a regular UN member (if there had been enough votes for it). The motion was rejected by a vote of 61 to 51, with 16 abstentions.
> 
> At this point the representative of the Republic of China, Ambassador Liu Chieh, stated "in view of the frenzy and irrational manner that has been exhibited in this hall, the delegation of the Republic of China has now decided not to take part in any further proceedings of this General Assembly."[6] He said the "ideals upon which the UN was founded" had been "betrayed".[7]
> 
> The Assembly then adopted draft Albanian proposed resolution A/L. 630 and Add.l and 2, by a roll-call vote of 76 to 35, with 17 abstentions, as Resolution 2758. The Beijing government began representing China at the UN from 15 November 1971 and its delegates were seated at the UN Security Council meeting held on 23 November 1971, the first such meeting where representatives of the Beijing government represented China.[4]


I know how it went down, I am asking you if Taiwan/ROC sovereignty was not taken away by UN, how they replace ROC with PRC?

I have been asking this for like 5 posts now, I have skirting answer skirting around all the issue.



Hack-Hook said:


> no they didn't lost sovereignity as it don't need a UN sit and as i said , there is a solution , declare independent and join the way is open , well sort of
> 
> 
> The State submits an application to the Secretary-General and a letter formally stating that it accepts the obligations under the Charter.
> The Security Council considers the application. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of 9 of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members — China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America — have voted against the application.
> If the Council recommends admission, the recommendation is presented to the General Assembly for consideration. A two-thirds majority vote is necessary in the Assembly for admission of a new State.
> Membership becomes effective the date the resolution for admission is adopted.


Dude, YOU ALWAYS NEED SOVEREIGNTY. In fact you keep saying "They need to declare independent" is a direct result of sovereignty, otherwise, what is independent?? 

And we are not talking about Taiwan rejoining UN, we are talking about Taiwan/ROC got expelled from UN when they have membership before. I mean, what else is the parameter for ROC losing their seat (call it whatever you want) if sovereignty is not count? The entire thing is about sovereignty.......

Again, I cannot dumb it down further for you.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

The entire Russian experience in Ukraine. Sums up in a few words. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580628992209883136

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> no they didn't lost sovereignity as it don't need a UN sit and as i said , there is a solution , declare independent and join the way is open , well sort of
> 
> 
> The State submits an application to the Secretary-General and a letter formally stating that it accepts the obligations under the Charter.
> The Security Council considers the application. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of 9 of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members — China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America — have voted against the application.
> If the Council recommends admission, the recommendation is presented to the General Assembly for consideration. A two-thirds majority vote is necessary in the Assembly for admission of a new State.
> Membership becomes effective the date the resolution for admission is adopted.


This is my last post on this matter.

Let's use some case law as an example.

Russia being kicked out of UN Human Right Council with a UNGA vote according to Article 18, do you agree?

Russia being kicked out of UN Human Right Council with a UNGA vote WIHTOUT a Security Council recommendation, do you agree?

Russia was kicked out of Human Right Council with a UNGA vote that did not count the Abstained vote, do you agree?

Security Council is a privilege for UN Member, do you agree?

Here is the kicker

Article 18 did not specifically apply to any role within UN as it was not specifically call on which roles were covered by UN Charter Article 18. So what that would mean if someone was to start a vote on whether or not kicking Russia out of Security Council, the same condition as in Article 18 applies.

Now answer yourself this question, if Russia were able to kick out of UN Human Right Council with supermajority which abstain does not count (as the resolution result suggested) then what make you think Article 18 cannot applies to the same vote that would kick Russia out of Security Council? As long as they have supermajority? Weren't Security Council a part of UN member Privilege?

I don't need you to answer me, this is to pick your brain.


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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580613050427588610

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PakFactor

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580613050427588610



Damn. Soon they'll become less religious once all the Orthodox ISI are dead. I never thought I'd see the white terror in my lifetime. Thank you, Putin.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> It's *ALWAYS* for vs against. It has been since 1945, the abstained *DOES NOT COUNT* toward the total vote.


wrong, the count always included the abstain and if abstain was not counted , in the article 18 they didn't said said " *two-thirds majority of the members present and voting*. " we simply said a 2/3rd of votes


jhungary said:


> Dude, YOU ALWAYS NEED SOVEREIGNTY. In fact you keep saying "They need to declare independent" is a direct result of sovereignty, otherwise, what is independent??
> 
> And we are not talking about Taiwan rejoining UN, we are talking about Taiwan/ROC got expelled from UN when they have membership before. I mean, what else is the parameter for ROC losing their seat (call it whatever you want) if sovereignty is not count? The entire thing is about sovereignty.......
> 
> Again, I cannot dumb it down further for you.


and I cant make it dumber , you don't need a UN sit to be sovereign


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> This is my last post on this matter.
> 
> Let's use some case law as an example.
> 
> Russia being kicked out of UN Human Right Council with a UNGA vote according to Article 18, do you agree?
> 
> Russia being kicked out of UN Human Right Council with a UNGA vote WIHTOUT a Security Council recommendation, do you agree?
> 
> Russia was kicked out of Human Right Council with a UNGA vote that did not count the Abstained vote, do you agree?
> 
> Security Council is a privilege for UN Member, do you agree?
> 
> Here is the kicker
> 
> Article 18 did not specifically apply to any role within UN as it was not specifically call on which roles were covered by UN Charter Article 18. So what that would mean if someone was to start a vote on whether or not kicking Russia out of Security Council, the same condition as in Article 18 applies.
> 
> Now answer yourself this question, if Russia were able to kick out of UN Human Right Council with supermajority which abstain does not count (as the resolution result suggested) then what make you think Article 18 cannot applies to the same vote that would kick Russia out of Security Council? As long as they have supermajority? Weren't Security Council a part of UN member Privilege?
> 
> I don't need you to answer me, this is to pick your brain.


good if you think you can pull it out try it, who care
you are comparing apple with orange


Ukraine invasion: should Russia lose its seat on the UN Security Council? | Feature from King's College London


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The drone's shrapnel after the mig shot it down is the cause of the plane's crash.
> 
> Unless of course that's what u insinuating.




The drone has hit its pre-determined target. And it was not 1 MIG-29 that crashed, but actually two of them. So in essence, it is the Ukrainian MIG-29 plane that got defeated.

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## Hamartia Antidote




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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> wrong, the count always included the abstain and if abstain was not counted , in the article 18 they didn't said said " *two-thirds majority of the members present and voting*. " we simply said a 2/3rd of votes
> 
> and I cant make it dumber , you don't need a UN sit to be sovereign


Well, evidentially you did.

UN Seat, not Sit....


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580702648206262273

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> good if you think you can pull it out try it, who care
> you are comparing apple with orange
> 
> 
> Ukraine invasion: should Russia lose its seat on the UN Security Council? | Feature from King's College London


And as I said some post ago, there are scholar from both sides sit (yes, this is sit) at the issue,









Can Russia Be Removed from the U.N. Security Council?


Created to maintain global peace and stability, the council is powerless as one of its permanent members wages a brutal unprovoked war in Ukraine.




diplomaticacademy.us





Don't forget, Russia DID NOT get the current seat in Security Council as Russia, they got it by "Inherit" it from Soviet Union, in case you have not notice, the issue is much more similar than China/Taiwan issue than you think.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580707563888181249

Reactions: Like Like:
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## zectech

I have said it before, I'll say it again. Russia is using the Ukraine conflict to try to weaken or destroy the EU politically and economically.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579279261592354817

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580584785830813697
The panic is still on after those Shageed-136 drones kept hitting their targets. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580590797463789568

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## Oldman1

925boy said:


> cuz of ALL THE MILITARY CRAP RUSSia threw at Ukraine? RUssia's artillery is better, its air defense is better, its just stronger militarily, and Ukraine has been stupid also during many parts of this war, Ukraine already reported 10s of thousands dead, but yes, Russia probably lost 10-20K soldiers.


Just cause they all of the military crap thrown at the Ukrainians don't mean anything. Many of that crap have fallen into Ukrainian hands. Russia has lost more than 20k, even the 6k official claims. 



925boy said:


> probably not that low, but not 60K dead- thats propaganda- Ukraine's military ISNT that effective, dont kid yourself - it likely doesnt evne have the strength to keep fighting like this past this year- so much for all those saying "Ukraine will switch to hit and run asymmetrical warfare when the war grinds on"..lmao...Ukranians are fleeing ukraine after their lightss got cut off. lmao.
> 
> because it needs more soldiers to hold onto all that territory it ook from Ukraine- you forget how huge Ukraine is? fighting is different from fighting and staying and holding securely - that requires alot more troops.


Yes I'm aware how huge Ukraine is. Perhaps Russia should have thought of that in the first place. 



925boy said:


> but millions are mobilizing no? just wait - arent Ukranians fleeing after their electricty got denazified? i mean, they're such patriots, a lil inconvenience and they wanna exit?


Millions? Russians can barely get to 200k. Many of them have to be sent back home after realizing they just don't meet the needs of the Russian army because of their age or health. Or even their status like specialize worker or employee.



925boy said:


> RUssia lost some of the territory, Ukraine cant even get any back now, and its tried for 10+ days to do so- cuz its exhausted also- small, broke azz, 3rd world military that people would've called stupid if they werent white.
> 
> where? lmao--- yo utell youself these tales so u can live in your denial- Ukraine is getting killed as we speak now - no water, roads, rail, electricity, damn even Afghanistan isnt that bad now.
> 
> its all war though, dont get into any specifics to distract- war is war if your troops and military are formally involved and active in the conflict, end of story.
> 
> oh sharap!


Russia lost more occupied territory from Kiev region in the north to Kharkiv and Kherson and even Snake Island. Maybe they will do more goodwill retreat to help improve their relations with Ukraine in the long term. Just remember that the Russians could barely last long in the final weeks of the winter.



Hack-Hook said:


> we means us
> 
> wasn't t-62 or t-64 supposed to be better than t-72 and T80 is actually based on it ?
> t-72 was just a lower class tank that could be produced a lot faster


If it was better, then they would have stick to the T-64 or T-62 instead of moving on to the T-72 and T-80s.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580616354104676352
US Army plans to extend the Precision Strike Missile Range out to 1,000km. This weapon is the successor to ATACMS and is fired from HIMARS and M270. HIMARS will carry two PRSMs and M270 four. The Army plans to purchase a total of 4,000 PRSMs.

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## F-22Raptor

Switchblade kamikaze drone production to ramp up following Ukraine use


AeroVironment said Ukraine has "considerable interest" in further using the Switchblade, and is preparing to accelerate production to meet that demand.




www.defensenews.com





Ukraine will receive its first Switchblade 600 loitering munitions soon. And per Aerovironment, they will increase production to 6,000 per year in the next several months.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Mista

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580505771556888576

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## -=virus=-

Why'd they ban @Superboy aka yong peng whatever ?

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## KAL-EL

-=virus=- said:


> Why'd they ban @Superboy aka yong peng whatever ?



Austin Powers getting banned? Well that's a shock.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> wonder why you guys had to go to such mental gymnastics to reach some conclusion . first general assembly cant suspend Russia for no reason .
> 2nd Russia cant veto a resolution discussing Russia it had to abstain , its the case for all permanent member . that's why we have china , England and France there , they do the Veto in such cases , its a close elite group that everybody have the back of each other


The GA can suspend Russia for violating the UN Charter. Article 18 gives them that right.
They can remove the diplomatic credentials for the Arissian delegation, allowing the US to arrest or expel them.
Russia is depending 100% on China for protection in this case.


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## khansaheeb

Russia to receive people fleeing Russian-held parts of Ukraine's Kherson


A Russian region adjoining Ukraine said it was preparing to receive refugees from the Russian-held part of Ukraine's Kherson province, after its Russian-appointed leader proposed on Thursday that residents leave to seek safety as Ukrainian forces advance.




www.reuters.com


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## PakFactor

-=virus=- said:


> Why'd they ban @Superboy aka yong peng whatever ?



Who was he?


----------



## -=virus=-

PakFactor said:


> Who was he?


Some Chinese - Canadian (kid, I'm guessing) who has been endlessly spamming and obsessing over Ukraine for years now lol.

also of DSI (divert-less supersonic inlets) fame

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## KAL-EL

-=virus=- said:


> Some Chinese - Canadian (kid, I'm guessing) who has been endlessly spamming and obsessing over Ukraine for years now lol.
> 
> also of DSI (divert-less supersonic inlets) fame



He also once claimed ownership of a rare gem found deep in the mountains of Mongolia

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## -=virus=-

KAL-EL said:


> He also once claimed ownership of a rare gem found deep in the mountains of Mongolia


lol wut


----------



## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> I heard ferries are for truck . you cant conjure up train carrying ferries from somewhere in so short amount of time m they are rare and they are used in places they are needed ,



Hack

Care to change your estimate ? One week is tomorrow and it does not look like it would be fixed by than :




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580239237907030033


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580284238930513920


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580223283152101376

~


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## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> Oky brain size chicken you won i lost. Idiot


No dude, put map of Afghanistan and your intelligent argument of warm water port was Soviet Union's God given right. That tells the rest of us your depth of knowledge. 

No wonder you are starting your own forum. But I don't know how you will find people similar to you to go there since a 5th grader in the village of Sindh will know that Afghanistan doesn't have a warm water port (or any port for that matter).

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## khansaheeb

Putin Ally Declares Russia Will Target This City First If World War 3 Erupts


This article was originally published on June 25, 2022.




www.benzinga.com


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## aviator_fan

Cash GK said:


> I had shelter Ukrainian family at my home for 8 months. Spain and turkey is full of Ukrainens enjoying holidays. Which world you are living man. They living safe lives here getting free Immigration in Europe and enjoying befits. You must come down on mother earth as Mars is too high. Europe has to mange housing medical and schooling for those 5 millones people plus Europe has to look after their mental health. Big task..


If you are doing this than kudos to you for your generosity. For EU countries this is a boon since their labor shortages are temporarily solved for for a few years as more of the refugees will work. 

But majority (not all) have the males of their house are not with them and are in a war. European life may be better, but ultimately these families are broken. If war ends, some/most may return.

European refugee life may be better than Afghan refugee life. But its a refugee life afterall: nobody leaves the stability of what they own/have and move to a completely new place , be dependent on charity, and be dismembered as a household


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The drone has hit its pre-determined target. And it was not 1 MIG-29 that crashed, but actually two of them. So in essence, it is the Ukrainian MIG-29 plane that got defeated.


By clogging up the mig intakes with their debris you mean. 

& fun fact the Ukrainian took out 4 Ka-52 in 18 minutes. Russia can't even destroy the Ukrainian airforce so in essence the Russian airforce are garbage.


----------



## aviator_fan

ziaulislam said:


> Westerns are been brain washed.
> Look at middle and lower income Americans and Europeans they have been decimated inflation is rampant and retirement funds are down by 70%
> 
> Yet they told Russia is in ruines..
> 
> Well Russia is doing much better economically due to their energy exports


They can still afford to eat and keep roof over their heads. They won't go to disney for vacation and change their cars later this year. But nobody is leaving their countries because things suck.

Unemployment is still at record lows. Also the lower / middle class had a good run during COVID times with all the direct money they were getting. 

The real travesty is the lower cost countries that were already over leveraged in importing food. If you want to worry about whose life is difficult: its Lebanon, Egypt, Pakistan and the list goes on where food affordablity is even worse now while Germans are worried that cost of beer is going to duble.

You expect Russia to march through Europe so gas can go back to $60 a barrel? No country thinks that way.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> cuz of ALL THE MILITARY CRAP RUSSia threw at Ukraine? RUssia's artillery is better, its air defense is better, its just stronger militarily, and Ukraine has been stupid also during many parts of this war, Ukraine already reported 10s of thousands dead, but yes, Russia probably lost 10-20K soldiers.


Soviets military doctrine and weapons have time and again proven inferior. Arabs, despite outnumbering and surrounding Israel and with proportional assistance from USSR to US / Israel lost in every battle and ceeded land. And now Russians themselves have proven that neither their doctrine or weapons can prevail in a smaller adversary that they thought would be a walk in the park.

So they lost 20K soldiers, yet need to mobiles 300K and lose 400K to escaping the country? 

Nobody will subscribe to Russian doctrine of top down command and control nor their weapons from this point on



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Looks like American electorate are speaking out against this war waged against Russia by the West.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580399538979753989


Yes and thats the benefit of being in a democracy (Pakistan, US): you can speak against your Government. Imagine try doing that in Russia: you either go to jail, or fall out of a window or take your chances and run out of the country with nothing. 

Do you have any similar example of somebody freely speaking against the war? No because war has 99% approval because protesting would mean imprisonment.

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## aviator_fan

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The entire Russian experience in Ukraine. Sums up in a few words.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580628992209883136


I think the fellow posters saying that Europeans will tire of this and Russians have their act together will say that this guy is a CIA agent and Putin has a well oiled machine underway



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580707563888181249


Thats understandable: Raytheon and Lockheed get paid for things being used. So why not Musk? Specially since he has to purchase the ultimate lie spreading app.



KAL-EL said:


> Austin Powers getting banned? Well that's a shock.


Youngpeng is gone? I hope he comes back: I liked hearing about how much money Russia can print to stay in the war because Russia has lots of trees

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## aviator_fan

Now we know the first few days after the bridge attack, Russia/Crimea claiming all was opened was staged.









Satellite photos show long backup of cargo trucks going to Russia after Crimea bridge explosion


The current wait time for a cargo truck awaiting a ferry is three to four days.




www.axios.com





Eventually the bridge will get repaired but it will be painful till then.

Photos show long backup of cargo trucks after Crimea bridge explosion​



Ivana Saric






Closer view of cargo trucks waiting in Kerch, Crimea. Photo: Satellite image ©2022 Maxar Technologies
The explosion of the Kerch bridge linking Crimea to mainland Russia earlier this week has caused a significant backup in cargo trucks waiting to be transported across the strait, newly released satellite photos show.
*Driving the news: *In the aftermath of the explosion, Russian authorities rushed to reestablish supply lines to Crimea. A day after the explosion they said all freight trains were running according to schedule.

"The situation is manageable — it's unpleasant, but not fatal," Crimea's Kremlin-installed leader Sergei Aksyonov told reporters over the weekend, per Reuters.
Yet in a new video posted to Telegram on Wednesday, Aksyonov admitted that the current wait time for a cargo truck awaiting a ferry is three to four days.
*The big picture: *New satellite images from Maxar Technologies taken on Wednesday show large backups of cargo trucks at the Kerch ferry terminal.

Other photos show several hundred cargo trucks parked at an abandoned airport nearby, also waiting to be ferried to Russia.
Photos​



Overview of cargo trucks waiting in Kerch, Crimea. Photo: Satellite image ©2022 Maxar Technologies



Close up of trucks queued at Kerch airport. Photo: Satellite image ©2022 Maxar Technologies



Close view of traffic and bridge repair work on Crimea bridge, Kerch Strait. Photo: Satellite image ©2022 Maxar Technologies






​
Photos show long backup of cargo trucks after Crimea bridge explosion​



Ivana Saric





Closer view of cargo trucks waiting in Kerch, Crimea. Photo: Satellite image ©2022 Maxar Technologies
The explosion of the Kerch bridge linking Crimea to mainland Russia earlier this week has caused a significant backup in cargo trucks waiting to be transported across the strait, newly released satellite photos show.
*Driving the news: *In the aftermath of the explosion, Russian authorities rushed to reestablish supply lines to Crimea. A day after the explosion they said all freight trains were running according to schedule.

"The situation is manageable — it's unpleasant, but not fatal," Crimea's Kremlin-installed leader Sergei Aksyonov told reporters over the weekend, per Reuters.
Yet in a new video posted to Telegram on Wednesday, Aksyonov admitted that the current wait time for a cargo truck awaiting a ferry is three to four days.
*The big picture: *New satellite images from Maxar Technologies taken on Wednesday show large backups of cargo trucks at the Kerch ferry terminal.

Other photos show several hundred cargo trucks parked at an abandoned airport nearby, also waiting to be ferried to Russia.
Photos​




Overview of cargo trucks waiting in Kerch, Crimea. Photo: Satellite image ©2022 Maxar Technologies




Close up of trucks queued at Kerch airport. Photo: Satellite image ©2022 Maxar Technologies




Close view of traffic and bridge repair work on Crimea bridge, Kerch Strait. Photo: Satellite image ©2022 Maxar Technologies




https://www.axios.com/
Axios

There was some doubt handhelds SAMs being used to cruise missiles:

Ukraine’s Javelin Missiles Have a New Specialty: Shooting Down Russian Cruise Missiles​








Ukraine’s Javelin Missiles Have a New Specialty: Shooting Down Russian Cruise Missiles


While it’s an imperfect capability, it’s nice to have in a pinch—especially when your adversary is striking civilian areas like playgrounds.




www.popularmechanics.com





A new, improved launch unit for the Javelin missile can do more than just launch the now-famous anti-tank missile: it can also launch anti-air Stinger missiles. The new Lightweight Command Launch Unit is easier for soldiers to carry around, and can protect friendly airspace from aerial threats to boot. In a first this week, a Ukrainian shoulder-fired surface-to-air missile launcher shot down a Russian cruise missile, demonstrating the full spectrum of targets the new launch unit can engage, from tanks to cruise missiles.

A video of the shoot-down shows a Ukrainian air defense team, armed with an unknown man-portable air-defense system (MANPADS): either a Soviet-era SA-18 “Igla”, an American FIM-92 Stinger, or a Polish-made Piorun. A Russian cruise missile flies past the team, the turbine engine clearly audible. The MANPADS operator launches his missile, and seconds later, a distant explosion signals a successful intercept.
The eight-month-long war in Ukraine has reinforced many ideas about modern warfare, including the thought that sophisticated, relatively inexpensive missile systems, operated by a single person, can destroy multi-million-dollar weapons platforms like the T-90 tank, Ka-52 “Alligator” attack helicopter, Su-34 fighter bomber … and now cruise missiles. While these weapons have been around for years, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has driven home the idea that a single missile operated by a single person can easily destroy weapons often touted as decisive. Ukrainian troops have single-handedly destroyed Russian tanks and armored vehicles with NLAW and Javelin anti-tank weapons, and Stinger missiles have shot down Russian aircraft and drones.

Advertisement - Continue Reading Below

Battlefield drones have grown increasingly popular in recent years, serving in places like Libya, Nagorno-Karabakh, Ukraine, Israel, and elsewhere. The drones, cruising at relatively low altitudes, have been used for reconnaissance, surveillance, targeting, and dropping unguided munitions. Models such as the Iranian Shahed-136, which Russia bought by the planeload, are capable of one-way, kamikaze-style attacks.





_Three soldiers prepare to fire Javelin missiles during Saber Strike 16 in Tapa, Estonia._
Staff Sgt. Jennifer Bunn, 2nd Cavalry Regiment Public Affairs
Until now, the solution to the tank and armored vehicle threat was the Javelin missile; The solution to the aerial threat was the Stinger missile. Javelins are issued at a far greater rate in the U.S. Army, at two per platoon, or about one for every 20 soldiers. The growing threat from drones, however, is making previously neglected air defense systems more relevant than ever. Both Javelin and Stinger require command launch units (CLUs), which typically include a gripstock, sighting system, night-vision sight, controls, and indicators. The missile launch tube is attached to the CLU, the CLU is shouldered and switched on, and the soldier carrying it can engage multi-million-dollar targets with ease.

​


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> LOL
> Its developement of Shahed-131 which was based on IAI Harpy
> wonder from where china and german come here and your logic sucks if european want to copy shahed-136 the price would be around 100000-200000 dollar


I was talking about Iran drone’s 2 cycle fuel engine. Where it comes from?


----------



## khansaheeb

How the US would respond to Russia's nuke attack in Ukraine:-

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## A.P. Richelieu

jhungary said:


> And as I said some post ago, there are scholar from both sides sit (yes, this is sit) at the issue,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can Russia Be Removed from the U.N. Security Council?
> 
> 
> Created to maintain global peace and stability, the council is powerless as one of its permanent members wages a brutal unprovoked war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> diplomaticacademy.us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget, Russia DID NOT get the current seat in Security Council as Russia, they got it by "Inherit" it from Soviet Union, in case you have not notice, the issue is much more similar than China/Taiwan issue than you think.


What is stopping the GA from transferring the Security Council seat to Ukraine?
The motivation being that Ukraine is the largest part of the former Soviet Union that adheres to the UN Charter.
The analogy with Taiwan becomes even clearer.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580516552683593730

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> A Pajeet like you who survives on eating rat and whose 25% of their children don't have a chance of going to education shouldn't be pointing fingers. That is 345 million people out of 1.38 billion people. It is more than the population of US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poverty in India: Facts and Figures on the Daily Struggle for Survival
> 
> 
> Two-thirds of people in India live in poverty living on less than $2 a day. This makes the Indian subcontinent one of the poorest countries in the world; women and children, the weakest members of Indian society, suffer most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soschildrensvillages.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the sad fate of your people. Go and ask the West you love to change your situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the heck, your people even resort to cannibalism 👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Useless group of people who normalized eating cow dung and make a big festivities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You hide behind the Israeli flag as if you can fool people. You shouldn't be throwing rocks when you're in a glass house. I would be insulted if I were an Israeli if a rat-eating, Pajeet is hiding behind my country's flag.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580458764834340870





I am not Indian.

And what does India have to do with the issue of wheat shipment from Ukraine to Somalia , Or Somalia famine caused by the war you support ?

How does India having problems makes your situation any better ?

Your claim that Somalia does not need western aid , or that the war in Ukraine does not severely effect your country is simply a blunt lie disconnected from reality.



Drought and the Ukraine War Are Pushing Somalia Toward a Catastrophic Famine​








Drought Is Pushing Somalia Toward Catastrophic Famine


More than 1 million people have been displaced by drought in Somalia, according to figures released yesterday




time.com





~

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

A.P. Richelieu said:


> What is stopping the GA from transferring the Security Council seat to Ukraine?
> The motivation being that Ukraine is the largest part of the former Soviet Union that adheres to the UN Charter.
> The analogy with Taiwan becomes even clearer.


The concern is always they may not have enough to pull thru, because Russia has vast interest in Africa and developing countries. most of these countries do need Russia to stay in UNSC in order to have their reach in world stage. 

Any resolution like that would likely to need to have around 90-100 voted yes, while they can most likely get every developed nation on board (like EU, NA and Asia), that number may be around 50-60. That's a lot of ask to have 30 + to vote for to kick Russia out.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> And as I said some post ago, there are scholar from both sides sit (yes, this is sit) at the issue,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can Russia Be Removed from the U.N. Security Council?
> 
> 
> Created to maintain global peace and stability, the council is powerless as one of its permanent members wages a brutal unprovoked war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> diplomaticacademy.us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget, Russia DID NOT get the current seat in Security Council as Russia, they got it by "Inherit" it from Soviet Union, in case you have not notice, the issue is much more similar than China/Taiwan issue than you think.


here your problem is to find a country to claim it represent USSR not Russia otherwise its not a case of ROC and PRC . and non of the former republic who break out of USSR at the fall of communism can make such claim as when they separated from USSR they sign an agreement and transferred all benefit and liability of USSR to Russia even that damned Seat which have med UN a useless and toothless organization (not only that but also the other 4 Seat)


----------



## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> If it was better, then they would have stick to the T-64 or T-62 instead of moving on to the T-72 and T-80s.


look it up , it was t-64 it was apparently more expensive to produce it than t-72 and you knew how Russia was at the end of 90s
t72 and t-80 had some modernization , t80 was supposed to be elite force and t-72 cheap main force in high number , t64 was what t80 was based on .
its like you decide between the 9th generation Xeon processor or 12th generation core I3


----------



## Paul2

Hack-Hook said:


> as i said did Taiwan declared independence , thats news to me


Chen Shuibian declared independence like 20 times, just to be largely ignored


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580815231483203584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580632969001041921

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> Switchblade kamikaze drone production to ramp up following Ukraine use
> 
> 
> AeroVironment said Ukraine has "considerable interest" in further using the Switchblade, and is preparing to accelerate production to meet that demand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defensenews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine will receive its first Switchblade 600 loitering munitions soon. And per Aerovironment, they will increase production to 6,000 per year in the next several months.


still a battlefield weapon , swithblade 300 can do the job probably cheaper , and while switchblade is more affordable compared to other western weapon , it still lack range and that is what Ukraine need


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580612751923085313

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The GA can suspend Russia for violating the UN Charter. Article 18 gives them that right.
> They can remove the diplomatic credentials for the Arissian delegation, allowing the US to arrest or expel them.
> Russia is depending 100% on China for protection in this case.


why compare orange with apple , different situation



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The GA can suspend Russia for violating the UN Charter. Article 18 gives them that right.
> They can remove the diplomatic credentials for the Arissian delegation, allowing the US to arrest or expel them.
> Russia is depending 100% on China for protection in this case.


why compare orange with apple , different situation


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Hack-Hook said:


> still a battlefield weapon , swithblade 300 can do the job probably cheaper , and while switchblade is more affordable compared to other western weapon , it still lack range and that is what Ukraine need




Based on the reports that I've read and if my memory serves me right, Russian EW has made them useless. Those reports were according to Ukrainian troops fighting in the Donbas region.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580612366810566658

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## Hack-Hook

Paul2 said:


> Chen Shuibian declared independence like 20 times, just to be largely ignored


In 1999, the Democratic Progressive Party amended its charter to regard Taiwan as already independent as the ROC, and therefore it was unnecessary to declare independence. In his 2000 inauguration speech, Chen struck a more moderate tone and pledged to the Four Noes and One Without: that as long as the PRC did not intend to use military force against Taiwan, he would not declare independence, change the name of the country to "Republic of Taiwan", push for the inclusion of "special state-to-state relations" in the Constitution, or promote a referendum on independence. In addition, he pledged not to abolish the National Unification Council. However, in August 2002, frustrated by a lack of reciprocation from the PRC, he described the relationship as "one country on each side" and initiated a referendum on cross-strait relations in 2004, returning to a more confrontational stance.[71]

In a 2007 interview with the New York Times, Chen reiterated the DPP stance that the Taiwan was already independent.[72]

Post-presidency, Chen has expressed his wishes to one day visit the village in Fujian which his ancestors migrated from in the 18th century.[73][74] In 2018, Chen, along with Lee Teng-hui, expressed support for a Formosa Alliance plan to amend the referendum act to allow for a 2019 referendum on _de jure_ independence, though neither goal was realized by the planned date.[75]


DPP said that but when they come to power refrained from declaring independence and promised until china use armed force against them they don't do that



Paul2 said:


> Chen Shuibian declared independence like 20 times, just to be largely ignored


In 1999, the Democratic Progressive Party amended its charter to regard Taiwan as already independent as the ROC, and therefore it was unnecessary to declare independence. In his 2000 inauguration speech, Chen struck a more moderate tone and pledged to the Four Noes and One Without: that as long as the PRC did not intend to use military force against Taiwan, he would not declare independence, change the name of the country to "Republic of Taiwan", push for the inclusion of "special state-to-state relations" in the Constitution, or promote a referendum on independence. In addition, he pledged not to abolish the National Unification Council. However, in August 2002, frustrated by a lack of reciprocation from the PRC, he described the relationship as "one country on each side" and initiated a referendum on cross-strait relations in 2004, returning to a more confrontational stance.[71]

In a 2007 interview with the New York Times, Chen reiterated the DPP stance that the Taiwan was already independent.[72]

Post-presidency, Chen has expressed his wishes to one day visit the village in Fujian which his ancestors migrated from in the 18th century.[73][74] In 2018, Chen, along with Lee Teng-hui, expressed support for a Formosa Alliance plan to amend the referendum act to allow for a 2019 referendum on _de jure_ independence, though neither goal was realized by the planned date.[75]


DPP said that but when they come to power refrained from declaring independence and promised until china use armed force against them they don't do that


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> here your problem is to find a country to claim it represent USSR not Russia otherwise its not a case of ROC and PRC . and non of the former republic who break out of USSR at the fall of communism can make such claim as when they separated from USSR they sign an agreement and transferred all benefit and liability of USSR to Russia even that damned Seat which have med UN a useless and toothless organization (not only that but also the other 4 Seat)


Here your problem.

HOW ABOUT NO SUCCESSION AT ALL? Russia is NOT Soviet Union, and there are no rules or article that said there have to be a successor to a state, on the other hand, EVERY OTHER FOMRER Soviet Union state joined UN separately. except Russia, to which they just circulate a letter (or much rather a memo) from Boris Yeltsin which intended to take over the spot of Soviet Union, they did not sign any agreement to transfer the seat to Russia.
. 
You don't need to be a lawyer to know there is a legal challenge here.

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Hack
> 
> Care to change your estimate ? One week is tomorrow and it does not look like it would be fixed by than :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580239237907030033
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580284238930513920
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580223283152101376
> 
> ~


for what that estimation was ? railroad or the road bridge ? so no the estimation for railroad bridge achieved in fact it happen sooner than what estimated . for road that is not something that can\t repair fast and my estimation was not a week for that part but by looking and those part and see how the bridge exactly is built , i say it will be fixed sooner than what i expected that is small damage to the place the bridge lie upon not to the pillar itself , that can be fixed sooner than you think and is less serious than it seems , just lift the bridge then change that part its separate from the pillar itself , its fixed to the bridge by its weight and some locking mechanism very easily replaceable , at least its how we build it , we even some times don't use concrete for it just use some sort of plastic material (that i don't knew exactly what it is) to reduce earth-quack effect . honestly that damage while looking so intimidating , is not that serious , easily fixed


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> we will be glad if you manage to jam our drones


If the Nato says it can jam then it can, why do you believe it can’t?
Iran drones are guided by some sorts of guidance systems, most likely either by GPS or Glonass. Or you use chinese satellites? or map/visual guidance. Ok if the latter, then it’s difficult to impossible jam.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580814135562227713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580703186221817856

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> I was talking about Iran drone’s 2 cycle fuel engine. Where it comes from?


we can build that engine here if want as we do it once for motorcycles (before it become illegal to use two stroke engine in motorcycles . right now probably it come from china by the way as we can build engine for cars since late 70s why you think we cant build those two stroke engines?



A.P. Richelieu said:


> What is stopping the GA from transferring the Security Council seat to Ukraine?
> The motivation being that Ukraine is the largest part of the former Soviet Union that adheres to the UN Charter.
> The analogy with Taiwan becomes even clearer.


the mere unimportant fact that Ukraine while separating from USSR , denounced its right about the seat and signed all USSR rights and liabilities to Russia


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580825677443780609


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580643822874558465


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Here your problem.
> 
> HOW ABOUT NO SUCCESSION AT ALL? Russia is NOT Soviet Union, and there are no rules or article that said there have to be a successor to a state, on the other hand, EVERY OTHER FOMRER Soviet Union state joined UN separately. except Russia, to which they just circulate a letter (or much rather a memo) from Boris Yeltsin which intended to take over the spot of Soviet Union, they did not sign any agreement to transfer the seat to Russia.
> .
> You don't need to be a lawyer to know there is a legal challenge here.


interesting , but the legal challenge wold be England , he will be against throwing Russia out of UNSC as its something that may happen to it . if Scotland in one of its routine referendum to separate from Britain , then if they support this narrative right now that will put a precedence here that ca be used against them and take away their veto rights and they don't like it at all , so except them support Russia on it also it will be another problem to make china agree to it because if they agree to it they will be alone there and have nobody back them and it seems if they talk about china in UNSC , it must abstain from voting and rely on Russia to veto it if necessary , no Russia no such support

also
Professor Rein Mullerson [et] concluded that the succession was legitimate, identifying three reasons: "Firstly, after the dissolution, Russia is [sic] still remains one of the largest States in the world geographically and demographically. Secondly, Soviet Russia after 1917 and especially the Soviet Union after 1922 were treated as continuing the same State as existed under the Russian Empire. These are objective factors to show that Russia is the continuation of the Soviet Union. The third reason which forms the subjective factor is the State’s behaviour and the recognition of the continuity by the third States."[4]

The Vienna Convention on Succession of States in respect of Treaties was not a factor in the succession because it did not enter into force until 1996.


----------



## jhungary

Interview with the 93rd Mech Brigade in front line near Bakhmut.



Hack-Hook said:


> interesting , but the legal challenge wold be England , he will be against throwing Russia out of UNSC as its something that may happen to it . if Scotland in one of its routine referendum to separate from Britain , then if they support this narrative right now that will put a precedence here that ca be used against them and take away their veto rights and they don't like it at all , so except them support Russia on it also it will be another problem to make china agree to it because if they agree to it they will be alone there and have nobody back them and it seems if they talk about china in UNSC , it must abstain from voting and rely on Russia to veto it if necessary , no Russia no such support
> 
> also
> Professor Rein Mullerson [et] concluded that the succession was legitimate, identifying three reasons: "Firstly, after the dissolution, Russia is [sic] still remains one of the largest States in the world geographically and demographically. Secondly, Soviet Russia after 1917 and especially the Soviet Union after 1922 were treated as continuing the same State as existed under the Russian Empire. These are objective factors to show that Russia is the continuation of the Soviet Union. The third reason which forms the subjective factor is the State’s behaviour and the recognition of the continuity by the third States."[4]
> 
> The Vienna Convention on Succession of States in respect of Treaties was not a factor in the succession because it did not enter into force until 1996.


Problem is, UK is the same UK that joined UN, and Scotland has not yet independent. Those issue would come to fix when it have to, Russia already took Soviet Union place, that's the difference.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> If the Nato says it can jam then it can, why do you believe it can’t?
> Iran drones are guided by some sorts of guidance systems, most likely either by GPS or Glonass. Or you use chinese satellites? or map/visual guidance. Ok if the latter, then it’s difficult to impossible jam.


simply there is nothing to jam and the drone also come with INS , the gps is used there to compensate for INS mistake , if you want to jam it you must effectively jam all of ukraine , then your own systems will also find problems , even 5s of weakness in jamming signal result it get correct position and compensate for ins error


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> we can build that engine here if want as we do it once for motorcycles (before it become illegal to use two stroke engine in motorcycles . right now probably it come from china by the way as we can build engine for cars since late 70s why you think we cant build those two stroke engines?
> 
> 
> the mere unimportant fact that Ukraine while separating from USSR , denounced its right about the seat and signed all USSR rights and liabilities to Russia


I not saying you can’t build the engine.
those one way drones make like a Saigon motorcycle loud noise, fly slow, engine from the 70s. What’s about the controller, chips?


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> I not saying you can’t build the engine.
> those one way drones make like a Saigon motorcycle loud noise, fly slow, engine from the 70s. What’s about the controller, chips?


did those two stroke engine had any controller chips ? I doubt , i think they time themselves mechanically , that's why they were so inefficient and produced so much pollution


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

aviator_fan said:


> They can still afford to eat and keep roof over their heads. They won't go to disney for vacation and change their cars later this year. But nobody is leaving their countries because things suck.
> 
> Unemployment is still at record lows. Also the lower / middle class had a good run during COVID times with all the direct money they were getting.
> 
> The real travesty is the lower cost countries that were already over leveraged in importing food. If you want to worry about whose life is difficult: its Lebanon, Egypt, Pakistan and the list goes on where food affordablity is even worse now while Germans are worried that cost of beer is going to duble.
> 
> You expect Russia to march through Europe so gas can go back to $60 a barrel? No country thinks that way.


Europe are rich. They can handle the price increase. Russia on the other hands can't just switch market. 

Europe can just buy gas from other country while developing new one like Nigeria.


----------



## serenity

What are the opinions on Elon Musk and SpaceX no longer providing Starlink connectivity to Ukraine?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

serenity said:


> What are the opinions on Elon Musk and SpaceX no longer providing Starlink connectivity to Ukraine?


Negligible. 

It's only Crimea that I heard. The rest of Ukraine still have starlink which the US still foot the bill for & the us still have spy plane among others giving constant stream of data to the Ukrainian.


----------



## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> for what that estimation was ? railroad or the road bridge ? so no the estimation for railroad bridge achieved in fact it happen sooner than what estimated . for road that is not something that can\t repair fast and my estimation was not a week for that part but by looking and those part and see how the bridge exactly is built , i say it will be fixed sooner than what i expected that is small damage to the place the bridge lie upon not to the pillar itself , that can be fixed sooner than you think and is less serious than it seems , just lift the bridge then change that part its separate from the pillar itself , its fixed to the bridge by its weight and some locking mechanism very easily replaceable , at least its how we build it , we even some times don't use concrete for it just use some sort of plastic material (that i don't knew exactly what it is) to reduce earth-quack effect . honestly that damage while looking so intimidating , is not that serious , easily fixed





*Russia's government has ordered contractors to finish repairs to a key bridge linking annexed Crimea to Russia by July 2023.*









Crimea bridge: Russia 'to repair blast damage by July 2023'


The Russian government says work on the vital blast-hit bridge must be finished by July 2023.



www.bbc.com





If this is true that would mean serious supply issues to Russian forces in the south during winter.


~

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## -=virus=-

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580825677443780609
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580643822874558465


decoy ?


----------



## jhungary

serenity said:


> What are the opinions on Elon Musk and SpaceX no longer providing Starlink connectivity to Ukraine?


That was fake news.

Elon Musk was sending the bill to Pentagon since May, to which Pentagon actually paid for most of Ukrainian Starlink service.

The original article from CNN 



> The far more expensive part, however, is the ongoing connectivity. SpaceX says it has paid for about 70% of the service provided to Ukraine and claims to have offered that highest level – $4,500 a month – to all terminals in Ukraine despite the majority only having signed on for the cheaper $500 per month service.
> 
> The terminals themselves cost $1500 and $2500 for the two models sent to Ukraine, the documents say, while consumer models on Starlink’s website are far cheaper and service in Ukraine is just $60 per month.
> 
> That’s just 1.3% of the service rate SpaceX says it needs the Pentagon to start paying.





https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/13/politics/elon-musk-spacex-starlink-ukraine/index.html



In short, Elon Musk is not shutting off Starlink in Ukraine lol......He actually earn a lot of money from Pentagon.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

khansaheeb said:


> How the US would respond to Russia's nuke attack in Ukraine:-



I wonder how many nuclear capable submarines are within striking distance of Russia just sitting waiting for orders?

Reactions: Wow Wow:
2


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## Vergennes

-=virus=- said:


> decoy ?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580845815412637696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580820397616164864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580883407856226305

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580819437824839681

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4


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580831749491130368
Remember when I said it would take months to repair and I was told it’d take days at most?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580863579984605184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580864048786116609

Reactions: Angry Angry:
2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580570576099450882
More Russian war crimes

Reactions: Angry Angry:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580901513014431744

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## ziaulislam

aviator_fan said:


> They can still afford to eat and keep roof over their heads. They won't go to disney for vacation and change their cars later this year. But nobody is leaving their countries because things suck.
> 
> Unemployment is still at record lows. Also the lower / middle class had a good run during COVID times with all the direct money they were getting.
> 
> The real travesty is the lower cost countries that were already over leveraged in importing food. If you want to worry about whose life is difficult: its Lebanon, Egypt, Pakistan and the list goes on where food affordablity is even worse now while Germans are worried that cost of beer is going to duble.
> 
> You expect Russia to march through Europe so gas can go back to $60 a barrel? No country thinks that way.


Wow 
Do you live in America?
Have you seen the poverty?
Come to west Virginia and I will show you america

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580637031432003585
The newly mobilized already returning in body bags

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## ziaulislam

The dozens of patients I see in clinic will disagree with "all is well" mantra

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## serenity

jhungary said:


> That was fake news.
> 
> Elon Musk was sending the bill to Pentagon since May, to which Pentagon actually paid for most of Ukrainian Starlink service.
> 
> The original article from CNN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/13/politics/elon-musk-spacex-starlink-ukraine/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> In short, Elon Musk is not shutting off Starlink in Ukraine lol......He actually earn a lot of money from Pentagon.



Either Russia has jammed Starlink or Elon has stopped the service to Ukraine. Starlink for the last few days have been down allegedly by too many on both sides for it to be fake news.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580811628617994241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580690589418684416

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2


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## gambit

ziaulislam said:


> Wow
> Do you live in America?
> Have you seen the poverty?
> Come to west Virginia and I will show you america


I have been to WV. Yes, the poverty is terrible in America. All over the country. Please start a campaign so that not so many come to the US. You can start with your own Pakistan.

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## Viet

Speculation arises that Ukraine army will storm Cherson in next few days. 










Militärexperte Masala erwartet Schlacht um Cherson


Militärexperte Carlo Masala erwartet im Podcast "Ukraine – die Lage" einen Angriff der ukrainischen Streitkräfte auf die Großstadt Cherson




www.stern.de










A Ukrainian tank crew takes part in a training exercise with infantrymen on May 09, 2022 near Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Ukraine. (Photo by John Moore/Getty Images)

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## Wood

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580819437824839681


Ukrainian gov. and diplomats should have been smart enough to ignore Elon Musk's recent troll tweets about 'peace deal'. It would have been forgotten easily. The knee jerk response from President Zelensky and his diplomats is a display of immaturity in the administration. Dealing with trolls and trolling others must be taught in diplomat schools from henceforth

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## One_Nation

Russians run over their own soldier at training:

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580820766303522816


----------



## One_Nation

gambit said:


> I have been to WV. Yes, the poverty is terrible in America. All over the country. Please start a campaign so that not so many come to the US. You can start with your own Pakistan.


How many Pakistanis are coming to USA each year?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> we can build that engine here if want as we do it once for motorcycles (before it become illegal to use two stroke engine in motorcycles . right now probably it come from china by the way as we can build engine for cars since late 70s why you think we cant build those two stroke engines?
> 
> 
> the mere unimportant fact that Ukraine while separating from USSR , denounced its right about the seat and signed all USSR rights and liabilities to Russia


Which does not change the fact that the GA have the capability to do what it wants here. Russia has violated treaties to the extent that Ukraine can declare such agreements as null and void.
Each country in the GA then have to decide what they do.

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## zartosht

ukraine was a sovereign country that played the west against Russia to get the best deals for ukraine 

Ukraine lost its sovereignty and right to exist as a coubtry when it couped out an elected government by CIA funded and organized nazi thugs. In addition to ethnically cleansing everything Russian. 

Im actually surprised Russia has waited this long react. People screaming putin this and that should gey on their knees on kiss his feet. He is by faar the most moderate voice out of the Russian government. Former mild mannered medvedev has gone full stalin. Anybody replacing putin is going to be 100x more aggressive

Ukraine can no longer exist as a country. It forfeited that right in the 2014 cia/nazi coup. The only question remains is what the final borders will look like jn a rump remnants of it

“Ukraine” will do well to not get landlocked/nuked given the path they have chosen

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## ziaulislam

gambit said:


> I have been to WV. Yes, the poverty is terrible in America. All over the country. Please start a campaign so that not so many come to the US. You can start with your own Pakistan.


Lol.
I am part of elite like you in USA.
I am milking the federal govt for all the money

But unlike you I do have some human feeling left to see and understand misery

West Virginia has highest poverty in any developed world.. there are several documentries on YouTube

They are doing worse then ukriane no matter what metric you use.
Human development index, life expectancy, health care , education per Capital income..you name it.


Now it doesn't matter for elite like us ..



One_Nation said:


> How many Pakistanis are coming to USA each year?


The guy himself isn't an American..

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Speculation arises that Ukraine army will storm Cherson in next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militärexperte Masala erwartet Schlacht um Cherson
> 
> 
> Militärexperte Carlo Masala erwartet im Podcast "Ukraine – die Lage" einen Angriff der ukrainischen Streitkräfte auf die Großstadt Cherson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.stern.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian tank crew takes part in a training exercise with infantrymen on May 09, 2022 near Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Ukraine. (Photo by John Moore/Getty Images)



It can be a double whammy: Melitopol, and Khesanh at the same time. Overreaction to each of offensive will be damaging.

If they will rush troops from Melitopol to Khesanh while there are allegedly 4 AUF brigades staring on it from the north, the result if predictable.

If they will not do that, their force in Khesanh will be fighting 6 brigades without fresh troops, on the open ground, but at least their resupply/retreat route will be still open.


----------



## MeFishToo

zartosht said:


> ukraine was a sovereign country that played the west against Russia to get the best deals for ukraine
> 
> Ukraine lost its sovereignty and right to exist as a coubtry when it couped out an elected government by CIA funded and organized nazi thugs. In addition to ethnically cleansing everything Russian.
> 
> Im actually surprised Russia has waited this long react. People screaming putin this and that should gey on their knees on kiss his feet. He is by faar the most moderate voice out of the Russian government. Former mild mannered medvedev has gone full stalin. Anybody replacing putin is going to be 100x more aggressive
> 
> Ukraine can no longer exist as a country. It forfeited that right in the 2014 cia/nazi coup. The only question remains is what the final borders will look like jn a rump remnants of it
> 
> “Ukraine” will do well to not get landlocked/nuked given the path they have chosen


Maybe Ukraine defined everything within its borders as ukrainian. This ethnic cleansing of “russians”, CIA coup and Nazies all over is a kremlin narrative meant to justify Putins ambitions. Please dont pretend you dont know any better, just because your enemys enemy is your friend.


----------



## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580516552683593730


Probably a kill switch secret to them?


----------



## Paul2

About the famous video from few days back when RUAF vehicle rides into tank mines in the broad daylight.

It's impossible to appreciate from the outside just what an enormous amount of mines are being employed by both sides. There are thousands of mines being laid, and scooped per day. When you have mines applied in such numbers, you don't really need to hide them. That MT-LB which blew up likely drove into the field in the first place to manoeuvre around another mine field. 

Western armies by now use mostly remote mining based on intel, while both AFU, and RUAF are doing enormous static mine fields. Soviet union left both of them stocks of millions of tank mines. 200-300 mines per go is considered a routine mining there. Both AFU, and RUAF have engineering brigades, and regiments which are entirely dedicated to mining.

There are roads which are mined for span of 10 kilometres. Demining them under artillery fire is impossible.


Tank mines are unsung heroes of this war, and have probably claimed more vehicles than any single ATGM make.


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## MeFishToo

Viet said:


> Speculation arises that Ukraine army will storm Cherson in next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militärexperte Masala erwartet Schlacht um Cherson
> 
> 
> Militärexperte Carlo Masala erwartet im Podcast "Ukraine – die Lage" einen Angriff der ukrainischen Streitkräfte auf die Großstadt Cherson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.stern.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian tank crew takes part in a training exercise with infantrymen on May 09, 2022 near Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Ukraine. (Photo by John Moore/Getty Images)


Hopefully the ukrainians has the offensive capacity to do it. But I wouldnt count on it based on the opinion of military analysts. Seems to me they have been all wrong since february. I believe the ukrainians have to apply constant pressure on the russians, accepting many loses themself, in order to squeeze the russians back accross the river. I dont think they are going to make some major push through a weak spot, or carry out some fancy manoeuvre outsmarting the russians at the Kherson front.

I hope the ukrainians have a surprise for us at Melitopol.


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## Paul2

Kreminna is by all reports not seeing the amount of fighting originally anticipated.

Some trick is likely being planned.

I recall Russians in Izyum been harassed from the forests for close to a month, before a lightning repositioning, reinforcement, and attack to the flank.



MeFishToo said:


> Hopefully the ukrainians has the offensive capacity to do it. But I wouldnt count on it based on the opinion of military analyst. Seems to me they have been all wrong since february. I believe the ukrainians have to apply constant pressure on the russians, accepting many loses themself, in order to squeeze the russians back accross the river. I dont think they are going to make some major push through a weak spot, or carry out some fancy manouvre outsmarting the russians at the Kherson front.
> 
> I hope the ukrainians have a surprise for us at Melitopol.



Units fighting West of Khesanh are mostly light infantry — clearly not a force to fight in open fields. It's their mechanised attacking from NE, while 128th brigade sits, and awaits, while doing raids from time to time.

I also believe the current lull is due to Kremlin starting a new round of its Infowar, and subterfuge to discombobulate UA's Western supporters. If so, Ukraine will wait for mud to settle down in Washington before committing to another push, while using this time to stage.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Which does not change the fact that the GA have the capability to do what it wants here. Russia has violated treaties to the extent that Ukraine can declare such agreements as null and void.
> Each country in the GA then have to decide what they do.


as i said if you think its possible go do it , Its not me you must convince its the guys at general assembly


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## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> ukraine was a sovereign country that played the west against Russia to get the best deals for ukraine
> 
> Ukraine lost its sovereignty and right to exist as a coubtry when it couped out an elected government by CIA funded and organized nazi thugs. In addition to ethnically cleansing everything Russian.
> 
> Im actually surprised Russia has waited this long react. People screaming putin this and that should gey on their knees on kiss his feet. He is by faar the most moderate voice out of the Russian government. Former mild mannered medvedev has gone full stalin. Anybody replacing putin is going to be 100x more aggressive
> 
> Ukraine can no longer exist as a country. It forfeited that right in the 2014 cia/nazi coup. The only question remains is what the final borders will look like jn a rump remnants of it
> 
> “Ukraine” will do well to not get landlocked/nuked given the path they have chosen


Thanks for informing us that Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan has lost their right to exist as countries due to the coups.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580947981268058112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580948754735431680

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Which does not change the fact that the GA have the capability to do what it wants here. Russia has violated treaties to the extent that Ukraine can declare such agreements as null and void.
> Each country in the GA then have to decide what they do.


no it don't have the power , you claim it has , i'm tired of trying to convince you , so if it has then go and throw Russia out of security council , even general assembly and give his seat to Ukraine , while you are at it why not throw china out also and give their seat to Taiwan . then you can have your cozy family club


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580955140294467584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580923752107642880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580921824845516800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580906540768563200

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580958363990781953

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580959912016109571
Russia has fired around 3,500 missiles to date. 

My estimate is they have 500-1000 missiles left in their inventory.

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## Battlion25

Here is my take on the ukraine war and predictions for it from a neutral prespective all tho I sympathize with Ukraine.

1. The conflict will go on until minimum to 2023 where a temporary ceasefire will be reached which will last for approx 10-12 years or max in 2024 a ceasefire will be reached that will last 10-12 years.

- Both sides realizes despite the ceasefire this is only the beginning and from a geo-security point of view Russia can't allow the existence of Ukraine and forget about putin because he may not be around 10-12 years from now but others hardliners from his party will pick up the pieces and it is fundamental to Russian future security that Ukraine is dismantled if it was important before it is even more so post-ceasefire

- The reason for that is because Ukraine has been armed to the teeth and they are extremely motivated an probably the knife to use to defeat Russia in the future and they will commit atrocities in russia if angered ukrainians get the opportunity served. Ukraine will become a permanent Russian geo-political nightmare especially in the security department. If Russia was to allow their existence they have allowed NATO to have huge advantage into their heartlands in a future clash. Hence the future russian patriotic leaders will not tolerate Ukraine and the threat they represent to everything Russian on their borders is understated.

- Russia will accept the ceasefire but plan for the real war which is the one to dismantle Ukraine forever and now their ego and pride has been bruised. The Russians will re-group, re-arm and re-mobilize then suddenly come one day down the line unilaterally and this time Russia will start Nuclear war and strike Ukraine with stragetic and tactical warheads across much of the country. It will be pre-emptive nuke strikes and you may ask how I know this.. Because Russia has learned from this lesson that conventionally they can't overcome Ukraine which in my opinion if you leave the nukes out of the table Ukraine wins this war conventionally not only are they capable of pushing the russians out of Ukraine but advance to capture of Russia's western regions and most populated areas.

- Hence the ball game is on Russia's side to start the war pre-emptively and unilaterally down the line at the time of their choosing... I would even go as far to say that Russia will prepare exclusively for WW3 from here on out and will treat that conflict as the final conflict with Ukraine and they will make EU pay if they intervene which I believe won't intervene.

- Russia will drop approx 100-200 nuclear warheads on Ukraine around and between 2033-2034 AD

- Ukraine will also know that the next round will be the final one and the all out one hence they will prepare for a final stand and once the ceasefire is announced they won't treat it as real ceasefire but will prepare measures to counter a Russian all out war.

2. Russia may create a bloc that will join the attack if the war was to spread and others were to join Ukraine which is unlikely in my honest opinion. There will be saber-ratling once Russia comes in for real and means kill or be killed that is about it verbal support and condemnations nothing more.

- It won't be Putin tho who will do this but another Russian leader who is more hardline then Putin will replace him and one he and his team has selected to carry on the struggle for the Russian cause but he won't be a bluffer and he will go all-in and nobody will call it leading to the rest folding in Ukraine.

- Russia will reach the Romanian and polish borders and also they will take Moldova and it won't be much of a struggle as they will surrender upon invasion.

3. fast forward another 10 years in 2045 several states have left NATO like Hungary, Bulgaria, Croatia and Greece.. Forward another 6 years to 2051 Russia's new bloc will attack Romania, baltic states and Turkey being the objective but the attack will come against the entirety of EU and NATO this will begin WW3

- China will enter the conflict on Russia's side leading to NATO getting pushed back past the berlin wall all the way to the Netherlands and Belgium. The Chinese will turn out to be effective at that point with improved technology.. They will take out all the satellites in the sky except their own

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580938592473317378

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> Either Russia has jammed Starlink, or Elon has stopped the service to Ukraine. Starlink for the last few days have been down allegedly by too many on both sides for it to be fake news.


Where do you hear that from? I suspect the same source you get from "Elon Musk puling Starlink out"?

Starlink was down in selective area due to Russian missile strike. It was largely unimpacted, that's evident that I can communicate with all my friend in Ukraine (They all use starlink)

And there are no reported interruption with Military Starlink uplink by any of the military district as far as I know, and I know people high up in Ukrainian military, I doubt they will tell everyone if their starlink was down if they were indeed down.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580831749491130368
> Remember when I said it would take months to repair and I was told it’d take days at most?


You don't need to be an engineer to know that damaged part is not going to be fixed in "Days"



Hack-Hook said:


> no it don't have the power , you claim it has , i'm tired of trying to convince you , so if it has then go and throw Russia out of security council , even general assembly and give his seat to Ukraine , while you are at it why not throw china out also and give their seat to Taiwan . then you can have your cozy family club


Well, technically, they really can throw PRC out and reinstall ROC, I mean they had already done one in reverse, that's more or less a fact here because it already had precedent. 

Now whether or not they will succeed is another issue here. Seeing only 7 countries counties officially recognize Taiwan, that's a snowball chance in hell. But UNGA did have power to pass binding resolution. That part is also fact.

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580958363990781953


Put this guy within a 1000 meters of Putin

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## Paul2

First party source: 2 russian 300mm MLRSes seized in the south without contest. 1 more burned, 1 more damaged. No bodies found. Likely an entire rocket artillery company fled when they received counterbattery fire in the first wave of AFU offensive a week ago.

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## Cash GK

aviator_fan said:


> No dude, put map of Afghanistan and your intelligent argument of warm water port was Soviet Union's God given right. That tells the rest of us your depth of knowledge.
> 
> No wonder you are starting your own forum. But I don't know how you will find people similar to you to go there since a 5th grader in the village of Sindh will know that Afghanistan doesn't have a warm water port (or any port for that matter).


This man will be among one of those people 😉








Where did the refugees come from? | "Where did the #refugees come from?" by Jeffrey Sachs (Cr: @DiEM_25 on Twitter) | By T-House | Facebook


568K views, 21K likes, 3.4K loves, 1.4K comments, 20K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from T-House: "Where did the #refugees come from?" by Jeffrey Sachs (Cr: @DiEM_25 on Twitter)




fb.watch


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580959912016109571
> Russia has fired around 3,500 missiles to date.
> 
> My estimate is they have 500-1000 missiles left in their inventory.


I think Russia will find ways to bootleg components that are under sanction for import. Plenty of traitors and thieves in the western world to help the Russians


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## Paul2

Russian firebase in Borozenske is taken down for good, RUAF units likely left it 1 week ago.

It leaves most of the from without 8 inch, and MLRS cover.

If russian commander there has any brains, he will likely make a new one closer to Kakhovka. They will take the risk moving arty to the left bank, or lose it without it making much impact.

Russian lifeline on the right bank is their artillery, without that, AUF out-armour them by a lot.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580957529798225920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580956422035996677

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580881816554086400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580940126330318849

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## OldTwilight

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580448599988920320



Look like the war finally begins...

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russia already starting their evacuation from Kherson. 

The liberation of Kherson is just a matter of time.

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## OldTwilight

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580667283344527360



Arash was legendary archer who went to Damavand mountain and loose an arrow , the place that arrow landed was marked as Iran border ... so Arash is border-maker ... 



> According to Iranian folklore, the boundary between Iran and Turan was set by an arrow launched by *Arash*, _a__fter he put his own life in the arrow's launch._ The arrow was traveling for days before finally landing on the other side of the Oxus on the bark of a walnut tree hundreds of miles away from the original launch site atop a mountain.











Arash - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









the name simply says " whenever I can reach can be considered as Iran sphere of influence or border "

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## Viet

MeFishToo said:


> Hopefully the ukrainians has the offensive capacity to do it. But I wouldnt count on it based on the opinion of military analysts. Seems to me they have been all wrong since february. I believe the ukrainians have to apply constant pressure on the russians, accepting many loses themself, in order to squeeze the russians back accross the river. I dont think they are going to make some major push through a weak spot, or carry out some fancy manoeuvre outsmarting the russians at the Kherson front.
> 
> I hope the ukrainians have a surprise for us at Melitopol.


They are fleeing Kherson.
Russian troops are hungry, desperate and isolated. Returning to mother Russia is a good move. Putin will award them either with medals as hero or send them to gulags as traitors.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580967277628780544


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## The SC



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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia already starting their evacuation from Kherson.
> 
> The liberation of Kherson is just a matter of time.


I am expecting their entire line in Kherson (At least in the Northeast) to collapse within days. 
Once that was done, I have no doubt Ukraine will start another southern front from Zaporizhzhia

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## jhungary

Joke of the day from Telegram

The following is intercepted communication between a Russian Conscript and his family

Family : Do you have enough to eat?
Soldier : Yes
Family : Did you have enough equipment? Need us to send you anything?
Soldier : No
Family : How many and what do you need us to send you? 
Soldier : Yes


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## Paul2

Very interesting event in Astana:

The presitator of Tajikistan has publicly humiliated Putin. I remember, Tajikistan is the second, or third poorest Central Asian state after Afghanistan, and which hosts a Russian base.

His govt been living nearly entirely on RU support. Unless he found a new patron, what he did today would've been suicidal for his regime, nor would have he gained anything from that.

I am very sure the Istanbul-Astana axis is behind that.


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## Wood




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## _Nabil_

Wood said:


> Ukrainian gov. and diplomats should have been smart enough to ignore Elon Musk's recent troll tweets about 'peace deal'. It would have been forgotten easily. The knee jerk response from President Zelensky and his diplomats is a display of immaturity in the administration. Dealing with trolls and trolling others must be taught in diplomat schools from henceforth


_It's not immaturity, but arrogance...

remember Olaf Scholz "behaving “like an sulky liver sausage" 😁_

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580959912016109571
> Russia has fired around 3,500 missiles to date.
> 
> My estimate is they have 500-1000 missiles left in their inventory.


so much for "Russia has run out of missiles"...well here you go with some FACTS ON THOSE LIES:







Why wont you give up on this conspiracy theory that Russia has run out of missiles and ammunition? but its fine by me tbh, afterall, its Ukranians who will die and are dying for their NATO-joining illusions.

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## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> I am expecting their entire line in Kherson (At least in the Northeast) to collapse within days.
> Once that was done, I have no doubt Ukraine will start another southern front from Zaporizhzhia


I just dont think Russia is ready to give up protecting the North Crimean Canal. Wouldnt Ukraine be able to block the canal if the reach Kakhovka? Im not sure how the canal works.


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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> I just dont think Russia is ready to give up protecting the North Crimean Canal. Wouldnt Ukraine be able to block the canal if the reach Kakhovka? Im not sure how the canal works.


The Sign were there,

Russia announced a general evacuation in Kherson. A long queue in Petrol Station in Crimea, net flow of traffic from Crimea to Russia increased about 200%. All are tell tale sign the front is not holding. The last time Russia did this is in Kupiansk, they announced a Civilian evacuation of Kupainsk, and 4 days later, Kupiansk felt to the Ukrainian.

This is not really whether or not the Russia is ready to give up Kherson, but whether or not their position in Kherson is tenable. It wasn't the same after Kerch Bridge was damage, it was bad before, it's worse with a lot of backlog now.

There are alot of call for help in Mylove and Borozensky in Telegram, a lot of call but apparently no help because the call continues, that is not going to hold, and they are pressing very tight at the moment to a point I am expecting the Ukrainian are going to break thru to Nova Kakhovka next week. Once Ukrainian took that, that's game over for kherson. And all these evacuation calls is Russian telling you they cannot hold.

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## RoadAmerica

ziaulislam said:


> Lol.
> I am part of elite like you in USA.
> I am milking the federal govt for all the money
> 
> But unlike you I do have some human feeling left to see and understand misery
> 
> West Virginia has highest poverty in any developed world.. there are several documentries on YouTube
> 
> They are doing worse then ukriane no matter what metric you use.
> Human development index, life expectancy, health care , education per Capital income..you name it.
> 
> 
> Now it doesn't matter for elite like us ..
> 
> 
> The guy himself isn't an American..


Complete bs, was that documentary by Michael Moore 🤣


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## ziaulislam

RoadAmerica said:


> Complete bs, was that documentary by Michael Moore 🤣


You are saying that patients I am seeing in my clinic are my delusions..??
Homeless and hungry Appalachians is reality that some people don't want to see






PBS USA owned...

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## F-22Raptor

New US weapons package for Ukraine worth $725M

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## Clutch

OldTwilight said:


> Look like the war finally begins...



About time Russia!.... Now go kick some asss !!!!

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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580637031432003585
> The newly mobilized already returning in body bags


Prove it

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## F-22Raptor

Old photo


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## PakFactor

Paul2 said:


> Very interesting event in Astana:
> 
> The presitator of Tajikistan has publicly humiliated Putin. I remember, Tajikistan is the second, or third poorest Central Asian state after Afghanistan, and which hosts a Russian base.
> 
> His govt been living nearly entirely on RU support. Unless he found a new patron, what he did today would've been suicidal for his regime, nor would have he gained anything from that.
> 
> I am very sure the Istanbul-Astana axis is behind that.



What he do? I haven’t been up to date on the news the last few days cause of work.


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## dbc

ziaulislam said:


> West Virginia has highest poverty in any developed world.. there are several documentries on YouTube



sure thing buddy the GDP per capita and median income of of W.Virginia is higher than Germany.But no, YouTube says W.Virginia is the poorest state on the planet. Please spare us your YouTube knowledge and stay on topic. thank you.

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## F-22Raptor

dbc said:


> sure thing buddy the GDP per capita and median income of of W.Virginia is higher than Germany.But no, YouTube says W.Virginia is the poorest state on the planet. Please spare us your YouTube knowledge and stay on topic. thank you.



Yep, West Virginia has a GDP per capita of $54K, which would place it in the top 20 nations in the world.

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## gambit

ziaulislam said:


> Lol.
> I am part of elite like you in USA.
> I am milking the federal govt for all the money
> 
> But unlike you I do have some human feeling left to see and understand misery


You mooch off US but you are telling US that you have 'feelings'.

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## ziaulislam

gambit said:


> You mooch off US but you are telling US that you have 'feelings'.


No I am saying you don't care about Americans



dbc said:


> sure thing buddy the GDP per capita and median income of of W.Virginia is higher than Germany.But no, YouTube says W.Virginia is the poorest state on the planet. Please spare us your YouTube knowledge and stay on topic. thank you.


Lol..wtf?

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Very interesting event in Astana:
> 
> The presitator of Tajikistan has publicly humiliated Putin. I remember, Tajikistan is the second, or third poorest Central Asian state after Afghanistan, and which hosts a Russian base.
> 
> His govt been living nearly entirely on RU support. Unless he found a new patron, what he did today would've been suicidal for his regime, nor would have he gained anything from that.
> 
> I am very sure the Istanbul-Astana axis is behind that.


That's the side effect of Russia invading Ukraine. Russia is losing control of its former Soviet Republic allies. 

I mean just look at SCO convention last months, everyone is having Putin wait, I mean sure, when Putin was visiting Turkey, Erdogan have him wait, that's okay because Putin can't really afford to piss of Turkey, but even Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan?? Russia would have roll over them any given sunday, but the leader have Putin wait for 4 or 5 minutes before stepping up. That has NEVER done before. 

Russia is losing the traditional "Guardian" role in Central Asia, Putin knows it, he knows these Central Asian republics are seeking ties with other player in the region, namely China and Turkey. The problem is, even Russia is now completely depending on China, it wouldn't make any point for these small republics to suck up on Russia, when they can just go suck up on China.

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## aviator_fan

serenity said:


> What are the opinions on Elon Musk and SpaceX no longer providing Starlink connectivity to Ukraine?


Its costing SpaceX $20M. Some of it is paid for by US/Poland/EU but not entirely. They may be paying for the terminals. SpaceX is not yet a profitable enterprise: just like Raytheon gets paid for what is shipped to Ukraine, it would make sense that SpaceX be paid. 

Take aside the fact that Musk interferes needlessly via twitter on matters on how the war should end, eventually the supporting countries (taxpayers) have to start footing the bill to a loss making enterprise



ziaulislam said:


> Wow
> Do you live in America?
> Have you seen the poverty?
> Come to west Virginia and I will show you america


Of course there is poverty in certain states. I don't need to come to see it. There are corners of poverty across the country. THat is not the point I was writing. What I was responding to is that the war itself is not making people poor. Its the inflation/interest rate and all the other elements that have made things unaffordable but not the war.

As for the poor people you talk about, they were poor 40 years ago, 20 years ago, and still poor. 

See prior post before you jump emotionally. If I stated that US has no poverty, never had any poverty, and will never have any poverty, then you can respond this way. Otherwise bother to read the context please



zartosht said:


> ukraine was a sovereign country that played the west against Russia to get the best deals for ukraine
> 
> Ukraine lost its sovereignty and right to exist as a coubtry when it couped out an elected government by CIA funded and organized nazi thugs. In addition to ethnically cleansing everything Russian.
> 
> Im actually surprised Russia has waited this long react. People screaming putin this and that should gey on their knees on kiss his feet. He is by faar the most moderate voice out of the Russian government. Former mild mannered medvedev has gone full stalin. Anybody replacing putin is going to be 100x more aggressive
> 
> Ukraine can no longer exist as a country. It forfeited that right in the 2014 cia/nazi coup. The only question remains is what the final borders will look like jn a rump remnants of it
> 
> “Ukraine” will do well to not get landlocked/nuked given the path they have chosen


That would be then the equivalent of Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Yemen all surrendered their sovereignty in every country that Iran sticks its nose in. Your logic makes no sense.

Or Belarus has no soverignty because Russia helped it quash the protests.

Countries have alliances, they have needs, they partner to meet those needs. If your Iran flag is real, then see all the places the benevolent bearded regime interferes in to 'help' them while shooting bullets at teenage girls at home.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> so much for "Russia has run out of missiles"...well here you go with some FACTS ON THOSE LIES:
> 
> View attachment 886808
> 
> 
> Why wont you give up on this conspiracy theory that Russia has run out of missiles and ammunition? but its fine by me tbh, afterall, its Ukranians who will die and are dying for their NATO-joining illusions.


Remember Top Gun line 'your ego is writing checks your body can't cash'.

What happened to the bold statements that Russia made in May that supply lines were fair game and targets. For those you needed PGMs and cruise missiles. None got used, supply chain is as wide open as my corner store and more floating in. They used these missiles now because it was a retaliation for extreme humiliation for the bridge attack.

Putin just acknowledged that he does not intend to hit more infrastructure. All of a sudden after mass bombardment , he has become compassionate or really depleting his weapon stock. This is four days after saying there will be 'severe' attacks. One strike does not a severe attack make.

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## aviator_fan

No way should this be believed at face value since there is nothing but general assertions (rest probably classified).

But if one or more of these things happen as its soldiers get mobilized in the coming month:

1. No change in status quo in 1 month
2. T62 tanks get brought out (vs. just talked about)
3. Mass artillery or cruise missile strikes don't take place
4. More conciliatory tone from Russia of the 'hey we are ready to talk'

Western sanctions hurting Russia’s ability to replenish military supplies, intelligence analysis shows​









Western sanctions hurting Russia's ability to replenish military supplies, intelligence analysis shows | CNN Politics


Western sanctions have sharply curtailed Russia's ability to replenish the munitions it is using in Ukraine, according to a new analysis from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, forcing Moscow to task its intelligence services with finding ways to evade restrictions and procure...




www.cnn.com






Western sanctions have sharply curtailed Russia’s ability to replenish the munitions it is using in Ukraine, according to a new analysis from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, forcing Moscow to task its intelligence services with finding ways to evade restrictions and procure the critical technology and parts to sustain its war effort.


Russia has lost more than 6,000 pieces of equipment since the war began nearly eight months ago, the analysis obtained by CNN shows, with the country’s military struggling to acquire the microchips, engines and thermal imaging technology required to make new weapons.


Sweeping Western restrictions on exports to Russia have forced the country’s defense industrial facilities to periodically go idle. Two of the country’s largest domestic microelectronics manufacturers were forced to temporarily halt production because they weren’t able to secure necessary foreign components. And a shortage of bearings – a low-tech component – has undermined the production of tanks, aircraft, submarines and other military systems.


Even as early as May, only a few months into the war, the Russian defense industry found itself short of supplies and components for marine diesel engines, helicopter and aircraft parts and fire control systems, according to the analysis. And Russia has turned to Soviet-era tanks, removing them from storage to use in Ukraine.


The details were shared in a presentation with senior finance officials from nearly 30 nations Friday, who gathered at the Treasury Department for an update from Deputy US Treasury Secretary Wally Adeyemo, Deputy Commerce Secretary Don Graves and Deputy Director of National Intelligence Morgan Muir on the sanctions’ effectiveness in choking off Russia’s military industrial complex.


“They have to make critical choices about what they can do on the battlefield because they don’t have the tanks they need, they don’t have the equipment they need to make helicopters, they don’t have the semiconductors they need to launch precision missiles into Ukraine,” Adeyemo told CNN in an exclusive interview.


The meeting comes as Russia renews bombardments of civilian infrastructure, including in the capital Kyiv, a sign of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s intent on terrorizing the Ukrainian population after months of embarrassing losses on the battlefield.


US President Joe Biden, who said this week the attacks were “beyond the pale,” has warned that nuclear threats emanating from Russia could result in catastrophic mistakes and has wondered aloud at what Putin’s “off ramp” in the war could be.


The US and its allies are hurriedly working to send more air defense systems to Ukraine, the latest in tens of billions of dollars of military assistance that’s flowed into the country over the past several months. The effort has turned Ukraine into a nation heavily armed with advanced weapons and the latest technology.


On a parallel track, however, has been the effort to deprive Russia of its own ability to make new, advanced weapons, a process that officials acknowledged in the spring would take months to yield results as the country’s military ran through its stocks.


The effort has been coordinated between the Treasury Department, Pentagon and US intelligence agencies, who each bring experience in the makeup of Russia’s critical supply chains.


“Russia is running out of troops, they’re running out of ammunition. They’re running out of tanks and other materials. And what we’re trying to do using sanctions and export controls to make it harder for them to reinforce their troops and to get the things they need to fight the war in Ukraine,” Adeyemo said.


At the onset of the war, Russia suffered heavy losses and struggled with some of its advanced weapons. When they did use precision guided munitions, Russia suffered failure rates as high as 60%, US officials have previously said.


Now, the US says Russia is “expending munitions at an unsustainable rate” and turning to Iran and North Korea for help, a sign of the shortfalls facing the country’s own domestic defense industry after the US and other nations banned the export of key technologies needed for advanced weaponry at the start of the war.


The presentation delivered Friday at the Treasury Department went further in spelling out how the export controls have been effective in limiting Russia’s ability to either purchase or make new weapons – and in providing allies with critical information to tighten their own sanctions efforts.


A goal of the meeting was “to provide information to them that many of them have never received before,” a senior Treasury official said beforehand.


The export restrictions have forced “reliance on contraband chips, work-arounds, and lower-quality imports (for example from China) undermining weapons systems,” the presentation reads, and have “exposed vulnerability in ‘chokepoint’ technologies (small and innocuous parts such as bearings and fasteners).”


The extent to which Beijing is assisting Russia in its war effort has been the subject of intense scrutiny in Washington. Biden warned Chinese President Xi Jinping in a telephone call earlier this year against providing military assistance to Moscow. The US has gone after Chinese companies and research institutes for supporting Russia’s military.


Still, Adeyemo said Beijing so far hasn’t been much help.


“China can’t provide Russia with what China doesn’t have,” he said. “And China doesn’t produce the most advanced semiconductors. Those are produced by our allies and partners. So Russia is searching for these things. The reason they’re using their intelligence services and front companies to try and get them is because the countries they would naturally turn to don’t have them.”


Russia has sought to skirt the Western restrictions on critical technology through vast networks of wealthy oligarchs and front companies, the new analysis says, targeting Europe and North America in particular in an effort to procure the required components.


The effort to prevent the sanctions evasion has led to a “continuing cat-and-mouse game to detect and take action against these channels.”

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## dbc

F-22Raptor said:


> Yep, West Virginia has a GDP per capita of $54K, which would place it in the top 20 nations in the world.



He shared a youtube video of a Frontline documentary capturing the abject poverty of a W. Virginia family circa March 2020 during lock down. This family was filmed spraying down shower curtains with Lysol spray disinfectant and wiping surfaces around their home with Lysol wipes. Now I distinctly remember trying to buy a can of Lysol spray on Amazon around that time it sold for 50$s a can. I need to go look up the definition of low income and poverty in W. Virginia.

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 886832
> 
> 
> 
> New US weapons package for Ukraine worth $725M


Seems like a full NATO inventory assault on Russians in Ukraine.


----------



## khansaheeb

Putin says mobilization to end in two weeks; Musk says SpaceX will stop funding Starlink in Ukraine


Ukrainian forces continue to gain ground in territory occupied and annexed by Russia, with Kyiv saying it has liberated some 600 settlements this month.




www.cnbc.com





7 HOURS AGO
Don’t back Putin into a corner, Belarusian leader warns as nuclear fears grow​





Lukashenko is a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Alexander Nemenov | Afp | Getty Images
Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko has a warning for the West: Do not push Russian President Vladimir Putin into a corner.
Russia has nuclear weapons for a reason and crossing Putin’s “red lines” in Ukraine would be a mistake, the strongman and close Kremlin ally said in an exclusive interview Friday.
“If you back a person or a country into the corner, there is only one way out — forward,” Lukashenko told NBC’s Keir Simmons on the sidelines of a regional summit of post-Soviet leaders in Astana, the capital of Kazakhstan.
“That’s why don’t cross red lines, you cannot cross them.” 
Read the full NBC News exclusive here.
_— NBC NEWS_

8 HOURS AGO
Three vessels to leave Ukraine carrying more than 84,000 metric tons of agricultural products​




Ships, including those carrying grain from Ukraine and awaiting inspections are seen anchored off the Istanbul coastline on October 14, 2022 in Istanbul, Turkey.
Chris Mcgrath | Getty Images
The organization overseeing the export of grain from Ukraine said it has approved three vessels to leave the besieged country.
The Black Sea Grain Initiative, a deal among Ukraine, Russia, the United Nations and Turkey, said the vessels are carrying 84,500 metric tons of grain and other crops.
Two ships are set to leave from Ukraine’s port of Odesa and are destined for Tunisia and Spain. The third vessel is departing from Chornomorsk to Algeria.
Read more about the Black Sea Grain Initiative here.
_— Amanda Macias_

8 HOURS AGO
Russian troops will arrive in Belarus over the coming days, says Belarus defense ministry​The Belarus Ministry of Defense announced that Russian troops will arrive in Belarus in the coming days for its joint force operation, according to Reuters.
“Troops from the Russian component of the Regional Grouping of Forces will start arriving in Belarus in the next few days,” the Minsk defense ministry said.
This follows Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko’s announcement earlier this week that several thousand Russian soldiers would be stationed in Belarus, which he referred to as a “regional grouping of troops.”
Lukashenko, a longtime ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, indicated his willingness to respond to any threats from Ukraine, hinting at a possible escalation of the war. The announcement followed the blast that damaged the bridge linking Crimea to Russia, for which Putin blamed Ukraine.
_— Rocio Fabbro_

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## khansaheeb

China Would Violate the Arms Trade Treaty If It Sends Weapons to Russia for Use in Ukraine: Part I


[Dr Tomas Hamilton (@tomhamilton) is a Researcher at the University of Amsterdam and Managing Editor of the VICI-funded project ‘Rethinking the Outer Limits of Secondary Liability f…




opiniojuris.org





China Would Violate the Arms Trade Treaty If It Sends Weapons to Russia for Use in Ukraine: Part I​




06.04.22 | 0 Comments
[_Dr Tomas Hamilton (@tomhamilton) is a Researcher at the University of Amsterdam and Managing Editor of the VICI-funded project ‘Rethinking the Outer Limits of Secondary Liability for International Crimes and Serious Human Rights Violations’_.]
As Russian aggression against Ukraine continues and evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity mounts, third-party States and individuals may be considering their potential liability for supplying arms to Russia.
On 24 March 2022, the US reiterated its warning to China of ‘implications and consequences’ if it provides military aid to Russia, as did NATO leaders. Reportedly, US intelligence shared with allies shows that Russia requested supplies from China including surface-to-air missiles, drones, intelligence-related equipment and armoured and logistics vehicles. Beijing denies that any military assistance is being considered, while it has refused to join what it calls the West’s ‘unilateral sanctions’. China’s denial comes in the context of a joint statement by Russia and China on 4 February 2022 against NATO expansion, emphasizing that: ‘[f]riendship between the two States has no limits, there are no ”forbidden“ areas of cooperation’.
A salient fact overlooked in the legal commentary is that China acceded to the Arms Trade Treaty (‘ATT’) on 6 July 2020. In view of the obligations in the ATT, this blog post argues that China is prohibited from exporting most weapons to Russia since, at the very least, there is an overriding risk that they would be use in Ukraine in a manner that would contribute to undermining international peace and security. In the context of Russia’s ongoing act of aggression against Ukraine, the ATT prohibits China from sending any weapons to Russia absent credible assurances that they serve regular military and security purposes and will not be used in Ukraine. Importantly, some of the prohibitions under the ATT would not depend on establishing that the arms are linked to war crimes.
In addition to the ATT, this blog post recognises that Chinese military aid to Russia would almost certainly be a basis for China’s responsibility under international law in accordance with Articles 16 and 41(2) of the International Law Commission’s Draft Articles on State Responsibility (‘ASR’), as well as the prohibitions in Common Article 1 of the Geneva Conventions. And under international criminal law, the CEOs of China’s arms manufacturing corporations and Chinese State officials could be responsible through doctrines of aiding and abetting. In order to establish the international law standard to determine whether China, and its State officials and CEOs, are prohibited from exporting arms to Russia, this blog post suggests that the specific treaty requirements of the ATT may provide an appropriate _lex specialis _that is relevant to the determination of both State responsibility and individual responsibility_._
This post supplements my arguments made on the Just Security blog that there has been a lack of attention in the commentary on Russia and Ukraine to global arms control norms, and that these norms should be articulated, and not abandoned, during this time of crisis in Ukraine.
*What Violations Might Russia Commit Using Chinese Weapons? *
Since the invasion of Ukraine on 24 February 2022, Russia is almost certainly responsible for an unlawful act of aggression, constituting a violation of Article 2(4) of the UN Charter and an international crime under the Rome Statute.
There are strong and credible allegations of Russian war crimes and crimes against humanity in Ukraine. Notably, since 24 February, the World Health Organization’s Surveillance System for Attacks on Health Care has documented 57 unlawful attacks on health care carried out with heavy weapons that would almost certainly qualify as war crimes. Prior to the invasion, evidence had also been accumulating of Russian war crimes and crimes against humanity following the annexation of Crimea in 2014.
So far, Russia’s operations in Ukraine appear to have been carried out primarily, or exclusively, with Russian-made equipment. This could easily change, as Russia depletes its stocks of certain arms or material as the conflict wears on. If foreign arms are imported in Ukraine, the current circumstances of the conflict make it impossible for a supplier State to deny the obvious likelihood of supporting Russian unlawful actions. 
It is normally Russia that exports weapons to China, and not the other way around. This highlights that if Russia is indeed seeking military aid from China, it is due to the exceptional military demands it is facing in its Ukraine offensive. Of the items that Russia reportedly requested from China, the surface-to-air missiles, and perhaps other conventional weapons, would fall squarely within the scope of the ATT, as would parts or components of conventional weapons. 
The use of Chinese drones by Russia is already commonplace in the Ukraine conflict according to Financial Times analysis. It is unclear whether these would be military drones with lethal capacity that are subject to export regulation, or may be simple commercial drones that fall outside the scope of the ATT.
*China’s Accession to the Arms Trade Treaty*
China is subject to the rules of the ATT, according to which a State Party must not transfer conventional arms, ammunition, parts and components, where this would violate relevant international obligations (Article 6(2)); where it has ‘knowledge’ the weapons will be used in the commission of war crimes or crimes against humanity (Article 6(3)); or where the State Party determines there is an ‘overriding risk’ that the supplied arms will undermine peace and security or be used in the commission of war crimes or crimes against humanity (Article 7). Depending on the nature and surrounding circumstances of military aid provided by China, there would likely be violations of all three of these areas of the ATT.
China has grown increasingly committed to international norms on arms control in recent years. The object and purpose of the ATT, according to Article 1, includes ‘[c]ontributing to international and regional peace, security and stability’. It was consistent with this objective that, upon ratification on 6 July 2020, China released a statement that ‘[ratification] demonstrates China’s resolve and sincerity in maintaining international arms control regime, supporting multilateralism, and forging a community with a shared future for mankind. It will further enhance the treaty’s universality and contribute to global security governance and international arms control process.”
The failure of the United States to ratify the ATT has been emphasised by China to increasingly portray itself in diplomacy as a responsible actor in global arms control. In September 2021, Beijing criticised the US for its ‘political’ use of military support to Taiwan, and pointed to US supplied weapons captured by the Taliban in Afghanistan (see further comments here and here). More recently, in their joint statement of 4 February, Russia and China noted ‘the denunciation by the United States of a number of important international arms control agreements has an extremely negative impact on international and regional security and stability.’
*China’s Obligations Under Article 6 of the ATT Not to Transfer Arms to Russia*
It appears that China is barred by Article 6(2) of the ATT from providing any support that Russia would use in the war. In effect, since the war is itself internationally unlawful, the prohibition in Article 6(2) subsumes any question of a prohibition under Article 6(3) on international crimes. Or at least, wherever there is an Article 6(3) violation, there would also, necessarily, be a cumulative violation under Article 6(2).
Article 6(2) of the ATT provides as follows:


> [a] State Party shall not authorize any transfer of [conventional arms, ammunition, parts and components], if the transfer would violate its relevant international obligations under international agreements to which it is a Party, in particular those relating to the transfer of, or illicit trafficking in, conventional arms. […]


Could these provisions prohibit China from supplying weapons to Russia on the basis that this would violate China’s international obligations under Article 2(4) of the UN Charter? Arguably, as a UN member state, China is prohibited from providing arms where these would be used to commit an act of aggression or illegal use of force against another State, since these actions would be a clear and serious violation of its international obligations under an international agreement, namely, the UN Charter. This is to paraphrase a leading commentary on the ATT by Clapham et al (at 6.66), which argues that: 


> ‘Knowingly assisting a state through arms transfers to commit an act of aggression is already a violation of international law. Again as with the violation of international law which comprises assisting an armed non-state actor fighting against a state, the ATT may also prohibit transfers by UN member states where these would be used to commit an act of aggression or illegal use of force against another state. Such action will be a clear and serious violation of its obligations under an international agreement: the UN Charter.’


In the current circumstances of Russia’s unlawful invasion of Ukraine, China might additionally violate the following provisions of Article 6(3) of the ATT:


> 3. A State Party shall not authorize any transfer of [conventional arms, ammunition, parts and components], if it has knowledge at the time of authorization that the arms or items would be used in the commission of genocide, crimes against humanity, grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, attacks directed against civilian objects or civilians protected as such, or other war crimes as defined by international agreements to which it is a Party.


It is notable that the list of international crimes in Article 6(3) of the ATT does not include the crime of aggression. This is a peculiar omission from the ATT, and was apparently deliberate, since the final text did not include the proposal of Liechtenstein in 2012 (p. 52): ‘Be used to commit or facilitate serious violations of international criminal law, including genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes and crimes of aggression’ (emphasis added). Neither did it include the proposal in the Draft ATT (6.66) based on a State Party’s assessment of substantial risks that the weapons ‘would ‘provoke, prolong or aggravate acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace’. It would therefore seem clear that Article 6(3) also does not preclude the provision of general military aid to Russia on grounds of knowledge of an act of aggression.
Nonetheless, _arguendo,_ China would be prohibited by Article 6(3) from supplying conventional arms, ammunition, parts and components to Russia where it _knows_ they will be used in, for instance, the bombing of hospitals, theatres or other civilian targets in Ukraine. Also, we can exclude from consideration under the ATT any non-conventional weapons that would _per se _be prohibited from cross-border sale and export, and the use of which is a violation of IHL, ie chemical and biological weapons. The ATT applies to weapons that China could, in normal circumstances, trade lawfully.
It is clear that even if China was to recognize that its military aid would be used by Russia in hostilities against Ukraine, not all military aid to Russia would be linked to an international crime. A supply of ration-packs to be used by Russian forces in Ukraine, for instance, is unlikely to raise knowledge of ‘use in the commission of war crimes’, and it would not in any case be within the scope of the ATT. Even in a situation where China, hypothetically, was to supply missile parts to be used in attacks in Ukraine, they may be understood to be used in legitimate and proportionate attacks on military targets; their supply does not necessarily raise knowledge of use in a specific violation of international humanitarian law, such that Article 6(3) would not necessarily prohibit their use. 
While it is widely accepted that Russia’s attack is a blatant _jus ad bellum _violation, this does not mean that all Russian military operations contravene _jus in bello_. Unless China knows that exports will be used in violations, Article 6(3) does not preclude the provision of general military aid to Russia, even where China knows its supplies are going to be used in military operations in Ukraine. It is likely, in other words, that China would always have an arguable case _in relation to Article 6(3) _that it did not know of a clear link between the supplied weapons and an anticipated Russian war crime. Even as the conflict wears on and evidence of war crimes mounts, it may remain hard to establish that a supplier State _knows _(for the purposes of Article 6(3)) that violations will be committed with the supplied weapons. It would probably require a scenario where violations are so numerous or so systematic that any supply of weapons used in military activities carries the knowledge of improper use. Nonetheless, for these reasons, the Article 7 provisions (based on risk assessment) are more likely of relevance than the Article 6 provisions (based on knowledge).
This underscores that the relevant sub-provision for China is Article 6(2), with its general prohibition on weapons supplies where it is known they will violate the supplier State’s treaty obligations under Article 2(4) of the UN Charter (if we accept the argument in the _Clapham et al_ commentary referred to above). The existence of this general prohibition avoids the aberrant outcome that would result if China was prohibited under Article 6(3) from supplying weapons that it knows will be used in a human rights violation of lesser seriousness (eg violations of the civil rights of political dissidents) while at the same time permitted to supply those weapons if they were used in a massive and unlawful invasion of a peaceful State.



​








China Would Violate the Arms Trade Treaty If It Sends Weapons to Russia for Use in Ukraine: Part II


[Dr Tomas Hamilton (@tomhamilton) is a Researcher at the University of Amsterdam and Managing Editor of the VICI-funded project ‘Rethinking the Outer Limits of Secondary Liability f…




opiniojuris.org




China Would Violate the Arms Trade Treaty If It Sends Weapons to Russia for Use in Ukraine: Part II​




07.04.22 | 0 Comments
[_Dr Tomas Hamilton (@tomhamilton) is a Researcher at the University of Amsterdam and Managing Editor of the VICI-funded project ‘Rethinking the Outer Limits of Secondary Liability for International Crimes and Serious Human Rights Violations’_.]
*China’s Obligations Under Article 7 of the ATT Not to Transfer Arms to Russia*
In the event that assistance does not fall into the above mandatory prohibitions of Article 6, for instance if Russia provides assurances that the military aid is for use by its regular domestic police forces, China would still be required to conduct assessments under the ATT of the risks associated with the exported weapons. Article 7 provides, _inter alia, _(my emphasis):


> 7. 1. If the export is not prohibited under Article 6, each exporting State Party […] shall […] assess the potential that the conventional arms or items:
> (a) would contribute to or undermine peace and security;
> (b) could be used to:
> (i) commit or facilitate a serious violation of international humanitarian law;
> (ii) commit or facilitate a serious violation of international human rights law;
> […]
> 3. If, after conducting this assessment and considering available mitigating measures, the exporting State Party determines that there is an overriding risk of any of the negative consequences in paragraph 1, the exporting State Party shall not authorize the export.
> 
> 4. The exporting State Party, in making this assessment, shall take into account the risk of the [conventional arms, ammunition, parts and components] being used to commit or facilitate serious acts of gender- based violence or serious acts of violence against women and children.


Under the first of these sub-provisions, if China has information that a shipment of arms to Russia is bound for the war in Ukraine, there would be an overriding risk that that arms would contribute to undermining international peace and security, since they would help Russia in an ongoing violation of _jus ad bellum_. The leading commentaries on the ATT recognise that the scope of Article 7(1)(a) encompasses undermining peace and security by providing arms to a state likely to be engaged in future violations of _jus ad bellum_ (Clapham et al., 7.34), including where this constitutes a crime of aggression (Da Silva and Wood, p.155). Importantly, the peace and security provisions of Article 7(1)(a) are ‘international’ in character, so they do not provide a ‘loophole’ for a bad faith interpretation of the provision, whereby a State Party could interpret the terms as relating to ‘national security’ and therefore justify exports on spurious grounds of upholding an aggressive State’s purported national security concerns.
Any arms that China assesses as bound for use in Ukraine would contribute to undermining peace and security and violate Article 7(1)(a). Any such arms transfers might additionally violate Article 7(1)(b) if used in serious violations of international humanitarian law or international human rights law under Article 7(1)(b),or serious acts of violence against women and children under Article 7(4). Due to the difficulties of linking specific shipments of weapons to specific anticipated incidents in Ukraine, violations under Article 7(1)(b) and Article 7(4) are likely to be harder to establish during the risk assessment than the broader ‘undermining peace and security’ prohibition in Article 7(1)(a). 
Article 7 requires an assessment of ‘overriding risk’ (which has been equated with the ‘clear risk’ standard in EU arms control laws – see Wood et al, p. 169) of the ‘potential’ usage of the arms to ‘contribute’ to undermining peace and security. In the circumstances of Ukraine, the relevant assessment for China would simply be whether there is an overriding risk that the items sent to Russia are going to be used in the war. However, following Clapham et al. (7.31), the standard could be even lower – just the result of the mere delivery of the arms to Russia, even if not used in Ukraine, could be understood as sufficient to ‘contribute’ in some way to Russia’s actions in undermining global security. In other words, any arms sent to Russia that have a knock-on supporting effect on its military capacities to attack Ukraine could qualify. This would be a broad reading, however, and could be undone by Russia demonstrating that the arms did nothing more than address regular domestic policing needs, for instance (of course this does not rule-out that those regular domestic policing needs could be a basis for ATT prohibition). In any case, the threshold level for information about Russia’s intended use of the weapons that would trigger an export ban under Article 7(3) certainly appears to be lower than the standard under Article 6(2) of awareness that the transfer would violate China’s relevant international obligations under the UN Charter.
It is therefore Article 7(1)(a) of the ATT that provides the important minimum threshold: China must not authorise any shipment of weapons to Russia where it identifies an overriding risk of their use in the war in Ukraine.
*Information Available to China about Russia’s Intended Use of the Weapons*
A ‘hard case’ borderline scenario of prohibition under the ATT could arise if China supplies weapons based on assurances from Russia that they will not be used in Ukraine, but are instead intended for Russia’s regular and legitimate military and security needs.
In this situation, an assessment would still be required under Article 7(1)(a) of the overriding risk that the weapons would, in spite of and contrary to Russian assurances, be used in the war in Ukraine and therefore contribute to undermining peace and security. Such a scenario would then engage China in determinations under Article 7(2) as to whether it could take measures to mitigate the risk of the prohibited use in Ukraine, for instance by securing an undertaking from Russia that the items will not be used for purposes other than the declared regular usage. In this regard, it is salient that these provisions were included in the ATT primarily in relation to avoiding the risks of diversion from intended end-users to other recipients, not to mitigating unlawful uses by a purchasing State. It is hard to see how China could realistically mitigate these risks _bona fide_, or obtain any binding commitment that would prevent Russia from using the weapons in Ukraine _mala fides_.
At the present time, in order for any military aid requested by Russia from China to be permissible under the ATT, it would need to be accompanied by information substantiating that the weapons are not for use in Ukraine (of course this would not exclude possibilities of wrongful use against Russian civilians’ human rights. There is an obligation under Article 8(1) according to which States party to the ATT that are importing arms, must take measures to ensure that ‘appropriate and relevant information’ is provided to the exporting State Party to assist in the export assessment under Article 7. However, since Russia is not an ATT State Party (neither is it a signatory), Article 8(1) does not apply and it is under no treaty obligation to provide this information, although of course doing so could facilitate China in meeting its obligations under the ATT. 
The bottom-line here, however, is that if Russia is seeking military aid from China at the present time, it is likely for use in Ukraine. If the reports cited by US intelligence are accurate, Russia has requested military aid _expressly_ for use to attack Ukraine, removing any possibility of risk mitigation, and making the arms exports undoubtedly unlawful under Article 7(1).
In sum then, the ATT does not appear to prevent China from continuing to supply weapons to Russia for its regular and legitimate military and security needs. At least under the ATT, the illegal invasion of Ukraine does not _per se _mean that States must suspend regular support for Russia, for instance for its police and domestic security apparatus (of course, irrespective of the Ukraine situation there may be rights violations by Russian authorities that could trigger an ATT prohibition). Indeed, the Preamble to the ATT recognizes ‘the legitimate political, security, economic and commercial interests of States in the international trade in conventional arms’. However, as soon as China detects the potential overriding risk for an exported weapon to be used in the invasion of Ukraine (this need not rise to the level of ‘knowledge’), the ATT absolutely prohibits China from authorising such exports. This is a low bar, and would seem to apply to all of the rumoured conventional arms sales to Russia at present, since any such weapons raise an overriding risk of possible use in Ukraine.
*The ATT Offers a Lex Specialis for Chinese Arms Exports to Russia*
Following this detailed analysis of Articles 6 and 7, it can be seen that the ATT provides a more specific set of international law obligations to clarify the conditions in which a State must not transfer weapons to another State, than under general international law. 
These specific treaty law prohibitions of the ATT exist in the context of several other relevant prohibitions under international law. Chinese military aid to Russia would almost certainly provide a basis for China’s responsibility under international law in accordance with Articles 16 and 41(2) of the ASR, as well as the prohibitions in Common Article 1 of the Geneva Conventions, as Oona Hathaway and Ryan Goodman argue on their Just Security blog. There are further questions as to whether China would violate the principle of neutrality, gain the status of a belligerent party and be subject to countermeasures. 
Under international criminal law, the CEOs of China’s arms manufacturing corporations and Chinese State officials with authority over arms exports would need to consider the risk of individual responsibility under doctrines of aiding and abetting. Tom Dannenbaum has already pointed out the potential complicity of Russian industrialists in international crimes; the prospect of external military assistance to Russia could broaden the scope of individual complicity considerably.
There is no relevant arms embargo in place. Unlike in many armed conflicts, Chinese exports to Russia are not subject to any UN Security Council arms embargo, and the EU arms embargo on Russia since 2014 does not apply to China. Arguably, the ATT’s prohibitions take on a heightened importance in the situation where a State Party is considering the types of risks associated with arms exports that would normally for the basis for a UN Security Council embargo to be imposed under Chapter VII of the UN Charter but for an inevitable veto.
In general, arms control laws have received very little attention in the commentary on Ukraine since the invasion of 24 February. I would argue that arms control laws are highly relevant, both as a matter of international law and as a tool for legal diplomacy, to hopefully dissuade China from sending weapons to Russia for use in Ukraine where this is deemed unlawful. I would also argue, as I am developing for a forthcoming OUP monograph _The Arms Trade and International Criminal Law,_ that the prohibitions in Article 6(3) and 7 not only govern national export licensing requirements, they also provide a _lex specialis _on the prohibition of arms exports that may be relevant to determining the scope of responsibility in accordance with the rules of State responsibility and international criminal law. 
*Conclusions About the Relevance of ATT Violations for China*
Beyond international law, the serious ramifications if China decides to assist Russia are being described in stark terms: ‘China would in effect be entering a proxy war with the US and Nato nations that are backing Ukraine’, a decision that could ‘spell the end for the globalised economic system that has fuelled China’s extraordinary rise over the past 40 years.’
If pushed to recognise that supporting Russia would make hypocrisy of its ratification of the ATT and proclaimed commitment to global arms export norms, China might simply point to the US failure to ratify. But putting aside the whataboutism of US non-ratification of the ATT, China would still have violated its treaty obligations. In this context, China’s recent affirmations of ‘resolve and sincerity’ in maintaining international arms control norms provides an additional legal argument in the diplomatic toolkit, which could contribute to persuading China to resist the economic pull of Russia’s growing need for external sources of weaponry.



​


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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580901513014431744




It did explode and hit its target. You're giving the whole "shot down" to a new meaning.

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## gambit

khansaheeb said:


> Putin says mobilization to end in two weeks; Musk says SpaceX will stop funding Starlink in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces continue to gain ground in territory occupied and annexed by Russia, with Kyiv saying it has liberated some 600 settlements this month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7 HOURS AGO
> Don’t back Putin into a corner, Belarusian leader warns as nuclear fears grow​


If Poutine order a single nuclear strike on Ukraine and if some people in the Russian military obey, Poutine will be overthrown, those who obeyed will be dead, and Russia will suffer Ukrainian terrorism for the next few hundred yrs. And Belarus may suffer as well.

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## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> If Poutine order a single nuclear strike on Ukraine and if some people in the Russian military obey, Poutine will be overthrown, those who obeyed will be dead, and Russia will suffer Ukrainian terrorism for the next few hundred yrs. And Belarus may suffer as well.


As long as it is limited to this and the world is safe that is OK.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581002761038024704

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## PakFactor

khansaheeb said:


> As long as it is limited to this and the world is safe that is OK.



Exactly.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580897651486117888


When lying colludes your judgement. It is like the guy missed his addition and subtraction class.

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## Viet



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580808801661304832

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## aviator_fan

ziaulislam said:


> You are saying that patients I am seeing in my clinic are my delusions..??
> Homeless and hungry Appalachians is reality that some people don't want to see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBS USA owned...



Why is this relevant on this thread? So there are poor coal miners in W. Virginia. How does that fact belong on this thread which is about war in Europe. Did these patients of yours drive Range Rovers before the war and now because of US decision to help Ukraine all of certain poverty has struck these well to dos.

Just because you had no choice but to move to the poorest part of the country to provide medical care so you can work your 3 years to then earn your credentials to move a richer 'normal' city does not mean the whole country was poor. You are doing this so you can then have a path earn your money in a regular place.

There is a lot more to the country than the poor unfortunate people in Appalachian. Don't wait for your green card to see it. Go now just to experience it. After all you likely entered the country that way.

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## KAL-EL

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580808801661304832



His show was recently renamed to the "White Power Hour"

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## aviator_fan

Whats with the conciliatory tone: it goes from severe consequences to 'no need to attack more'.
ANd mobilization to end in two weeks and troop strength to stabilize in two weeks.

More irrational disjointed behavior OR US assessment is correct that weapons stocks are depleting and signal for negotiation OR something big is coming up









Putin says "no need" for more mass strikes amid report of missile shortage


Earlier in the day, Ukraine's defense minister said that only a third of Russia's missile inventory remains.




www.newsweek.com





Speaking to reporters Friday in a rare Q&A session, Putin said, "There is no need now for massive strikes. There are other tasks." He added that Russia's goal isn't "destroying Ukraine," according to The Moscow Times, an independent news outlet.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581153666211676160

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## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> Seems like a full NATO inventory assault on Russians in Ukraine.


That’s nothing. Still no tanks, no helos, no aircraft, no cruise missiles, no ballistic missiles. There is lots of No’s. Comparing to what weaponry Putin invasion army has used against Ukraine army. They even use hypersonic, they use phosphor bombs.

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## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> look it up , it was t-64 it was apparently more expensive to produce it than t-72 and you knew how Russia was at the end of 90s
> t72 and t-80 had some modernization , t80 was supposed to be elite force and t-72 cheap main force in high number , t64 was what t80 was based on .
> its like you decide between the 9th generation Xeon processor or 12th generation core I3


Then cost was the factor and hence the T72s and T80s. Do you think bringing back the T64s would improve their chances or odds compared to using T72s to T90s in the war?

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## aviator_fan

Viet said:


> That’s nothing. Still no tanks, no helos, no aircraft, no cruise missiles, no ballistic missiles. There is lots of No’s. Comparing to what weaponry Putin invasion army has used against Ukraine army. They even use hypersonic, they use phosphor bombs.


Helos? WTF is Ukraine going to do with helos when they are shooting the Russians ones so easily. Let them fight and win an 'info-tech' war against one that is a 'industrial-tech' doctrine


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## Viet

aviator_fan said:


> Whats with the conciliatory tone: it goes from severe consequences to 'no need to attack more'.
> ANd mobilization to end in two weeks and troop strength to stabilize in two weeks.
> 
> More irrational disjointed behavior OR US assessment is correct that weapons stocks are depleting and signal for negotiation OR something big is coming up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin says "no need" for more mass strikes amid report of missile shortage
> 
> 
> Earlier in the day, Ukraine's defense minister said that only a third of Russia's missile inventory remains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking to reporters Friday in a rare Q&A session, Putin said, "There is no need now for massive strikes. There are other tasks." He added that Russia's goal isn't "destroying Ukraine," according to The Moscow Times, an independent news outlet.


As ex a spy Putin is a professional liar. I would not trust any words coming from his mouth. Same coming from other three liars Lavrov, Peskow, Medwedew. To understand what Putin wants you can follow his mastermind, the russian nationalist Alexander Dugin.


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## Oldman1

khansaheeb said:


> Seems like a full NATO inventory assault on Russians in Ukraine.


Not even close. I don't see any F-16s, ATACMS, long range loitering munitions, long range cruise missiles, etc.



aviator_fan said:


> Whats with the conciliatory tone: it goes from severe consequences to 'no need to attack more'.
> ANd mobilization to end in two weeks and troop strength to stabilize in two weeks.
> 
> More irrational disjointed behavior OR US assessment is correct that weapons stocks are depleting and signal for negotiation OR something big is coming up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin says "no need" for more mass strikes amid report of missile shortage
> 
> 
> Earlier in the day, Ukraine's defense minister said that only a third of Russia's missile inventory remains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking to reporters Friday in a rare Q&A session, Putin said, "There is no need now for massive strikes. There are other tasks." He added that Russia's goal isn't "destroying Ukraine," according to The Moscow Times, an independent news outlet.


That means Putin can't attack Ukraine consistently like he did in response to the bridge attack. And he's trying to calms things down with Russians panicking and fleeing the country by saying he is stopping his partial mobilization in 2 weeks...for now.

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## gambit

khansaheeb said:


> Seems like a full NATO inventory assault on Russians in Ukraine.


 You ain't seen not even 1/2.

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## Oldman1

OldTwilight said:


> Look like the war finally begins...


They going to full mobilization or still partial? Putin says he will stop in 2 weeks. If losing 50k plus Russian troops and other personnel wasn't a war in last 8 months, I shudder to think how the Russians feel in a real war. Many hundreds of thousands Russian eligible men fled and its not even a real war yet.

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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> Then cost was the factor and hence the T72s and T80s. Do you think bringing back the T64s would improve their chances or odds compared to using T72s to T90s in the war?


i believe if instead of focusing on T-72 and its derivate T-90 , they focused on T-80 which was successor of t-64 and then their t-90 was based on T-80 they had better chance , right now upgraded t-64 will be something like t-80 , upgraded t-62 , depended on upgrade i doubt it but perhaps equal to t-80 or t-72 more probably worse


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## Oldman1

gambit said:


> You ain't seen not even 1/2.


Only a fraction.








Hack-Hook said:


> i believe if instead of focusing on T-72 and its derivate T-90 , they focused on T-80 which was successor of t-64 and then their t-90 was based on T-80 they had better chance , right now upgraded t-64 will be something like t-80 , upgraded t-62 , depended on upgrade i doubt it but perhaps equal to t-80 or t-72 more probably worse


Well in case whether they can refurbish the 800 T64 tanks, the problem is the crew since many are being abandoned in Kherson offensive and falling into Ukrainian hands. So imagine many of those upgraded T64s falling in their hands.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Crimea bridge repairs to be finished by July 2023 - Russian government document


Repairs to the bridge between the annexed Crimean peninsula and southern Russia, which was damaged in an explosion last Saturday, are to be finished by July 2023, a document published on the Russian government's website said.




www.reuters.com





Crimea bridge repairs to be finished by July 2023 - Russian government document​




MOSCOW, Oct 14 (Reuters) - Repairs to the bridge between the annexed Crimean peninsula and southern Russia, which was damaged in an explosion last Saturday, are to be finished by July 2023, a document published on the Russian government's website said.

The Crimea bridge, a showcase project of Russian President Vladimir Putin's rule, was damaged in a blast that Russia has blamed on Ukraine. Some Ukrainian officials celebrated the incident but Kyiv has not claimed reponsibility.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> That's the side effect of Russia invading Ukraine. Russia is losing control of its former Soviet Republic allies.
> 
> I mean just look at SCO convention last months, everyone is having Putin wait, I mean sure, when Putin was visiting Turkey, Erdogan have him wait, that's okay because Putin can't really afford to piss of Turkey, but even Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan?? Russia would have roll over them any given sunday, but the leader have Putin wait for 4 or 5 minutes before stepping up. That has NEVER done before.
> 
> Russia is losing the traditional "Guardian" role in Central Asia, Putin knows it, he knows these Central Asian republics are seeking ties with other player in the region, namely China and Turkey. The problem is, even Russia is now completely depending on China, it wouldn't make any point for these small republics to suck up on Russia, when they can just go suck up on China.


Putin is a poor uncle, no money, no influence, old aged, why should anyone suck up to? Look how many support Russia annexation? Belarus, North Korea and two other most unknown countries on the planet. China is the new rich uncle.


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## Oldman1

@jhungary 

Any chance of giving old Bradley IFVs?

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin is a poor uncle, no money, no influence, old aged, why should anyone suck up to? Look how many support Russia annexation? Belarus, North Korea and two other most unknown countries on the planet. China is the new rich uncle.


Well, it didn't help when Russian invade their "Slavic Brother" and failed to go thru with the occupation....

Almost all those Central Asian Nation are not Slavic, imagine what Putin would do to them poorly??



Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> Any chance of giving old Bradley IFVs?


It really depends on whether or not US would transfer the TOW missile. 

Bradley without TOW is probably worse than the BMPs. I mean, it's just basically bringing in 8 troops in a sweatbox with a 25mm, If US transfer the TOW missile as well, that will become a different thing.


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, it didn't help when Russian invade their "Slavic Brother" and failed to go thru with the occupation....
> 
> Almost all those Central Asian Nation are not Slavic, imagine what Putin would do to them poorly??
> 
> 
> It really depends on whether or not US would transfer the TOW missile.
> 
> Bradley without TOW is probably worse than the BMPs. I mean, it's just basically bringing in 8 troops in a sweatbox with a 25mm, If US transfer the TOW missile as well, that will become a different thing.


Didn't the U.S. already plan to send in TOWs prior to what I mentioned?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581171013538443265

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Didn't the U.S. already plan to send in TOWs prior to what I mentioned?


I don't know..........I can say I am not aware of US sending TOW......


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> I don't know..........I can say I am not aware of US sending TOW......











US Moves to Bolster Mobility of Ukrainian Forces


Pentagon is readying $775 million security package for Kyiv that includes more precision ammunition, reconnaissance drones, anti-armor capabilities




www.voanews.com





Another component of the new aid package seeks to enhance Ukraine's anti-armor capabilities with 1,000 tube-launched, optically tracked, wireless-guided missiles, known as TOW missiles, as well as 1,000 Javelin missiles and anti-armor rifle rounds.

The official said the U.S. would also deliver another 50 Humvees as well as mine-clearing equipment and systems, including 40 MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, known as MRAPs.

This latest U.S. aid package comes just under three weeks after the Pentagon announced a $1 billion security assistance package for Ukraine and brings the total value of U.S. security aid to Ukraine to about $10.6 billion since January 2021.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581175029383196673

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> US Moves to Bolster Mobility of Ukrainian Forces
> 
> 
> Pentagon is readying $775 million security package for Kyiv that includes more precision ammunition, reconnaissance drones, anti-armor capabilities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another component of the new aid package seeks to enhance Ukraine's anti-armor capabilities with 1,000 tube-launched, optically tracked, wireless-guided missiles, known as TOW missiles, as well as 1,000 Javelin missiles and anti-armor rifle rounds.
> 
> The official said the U.S. would also deliver another 50 Humvees as well as mine-clearing equipment and systems, including 40 MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, known as MRAPs.
> 
> This latest U.S. aid package comes just under three weeks after the Pentagon announced a $1 billion security assistance package for Ukraine and brings the total value of U.S. security aid to Ukraine to about $10.6 billion since January 2021.


Well, I can only say I am not aware of this news.....Maybe it has been brought up, maybe it just skipped my mind? I don't know.


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## Paul2

PakFactor said:


> What he do? I haven’t been up to date on the news the last few days cause of work.



He basically compared Putin's conduct to that of USSR

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581160950459420672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581179986748510209

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Russia would have roll over them any given sunday,



Russia could've simply withdrawn its paycheck to Tajikistan, and his regime would've fallen within few weeks.



jhungary said:


> these small republics to suck up on Russia, when they can just go suck up on China.



Doesn't seem to be a suckup, but pretty much a deliberate, and well orchestrated stab. I bet the guy been instructed by Erdo and Tokayev behind the scene, and given something very substantial in exchange. I just wonder what.

Or it may well be possible that he stopped receiving russian paycheques already, and is now complaining.


----------



## ZeGerman

https://tass.com/economy/1520957/amp











Russia’s Oil Revenues Drop To The Lowest Level This Year | OilPrice.com


In September, Russia’s oil revenues fell to the lowest level this year due to lower oil prices and declining exports




oilprice.com





The war will soon be very expensive when the oil and gas revenues plummet for russia….

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## Ali_Baba

Oldman1 said:


> US Moves to Bolster Mobility of Ukrainian Forces
> 
> 
> Pentagon is readying $775 million security package for Kyiv that includes more precision ammunition, reconnaissance drones, anti-armor capabilities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another component of the new aid package seeks to enhance Ukraine's anti-armor capabilities with 1,000 tube-launched, optically tracked, wireless-guided missiles, known as TOW missiles, as well as 1,000 Javelin missiles and anti-armor rifle rounds.
> 
> The official said the U.S. would also deliver another 50 Humvees as well as mine-clearing equipment and systems, including 40 MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, known as MRAPs.
> 
> This latest U.S. aid package comes just under three weeks after the Pentagon announced a $1 billion security assistance package for Ukraine and brings the total value of U.S. security aid to Ukraine to about $10.6 billion since January 2021.



$10.6 billion is a fantastic return on investment for the USA. Russia's best troops killed, best equipment destroyed. Red Army reputation destroyed. Putin - potentially politically neutered or dead. Picked up a new best friend in Ukraine for life. Broken the energy bond between the EU and Russia.. EU rapidily re-militarilising meaning it can withdraw it forces to focus on China more ...

What is there not to like about this for the USA... best $10.6 billion they have spent on anything ever ...

A strategic master-stroke from a bumbling fool's mistake in Ukraine ...

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## BHAN85

Starlink jamming should active Article V of NATO, because a American company is under attack. It's sabotage "infrastructures", like blow up a gas pipe.





Viet said:


> As ex a spy Putin is a professional liar. I would not trust any words coming from his mouth. Same coming from other three liars Lavrov, Peskow, Medwedew. To understand what Putin wants you can follow his mastermind, the russian nationalist Alexander Dugin.



The good part is that he's a liar but he knows the truth, so you can analyse him to guess what he's thinking.

Western public speakers often lie but they are dont aware of lying, because they dont know the truth.

There is no perfect liars, and people like Lavrov often reveal the truth because the kind of words they use.









Bible Gateway passage: Luke 6:45 - New International Version


A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.




www.biblegateway.com


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## _Nabil_

ZeGerman said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tass.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Oil Revenues Drop To The Lowest Level This Year | OilPrice.com
> 
> 
> In September, Russia’s oil revenues fell to the lowest level this year due to lower oil prices and declining exports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oilprice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The war will soon be very expensive when the oil and gas revenues plummet for russia….


This isn’t news since the revenues of oil producers the world over respond to rising or declining crude oil prices. Russia is no exception.

But the remarkable thing about Russia’s oil and petroleum products exports is that despite the harshest ever sanctions and embargoes imposed on a country, *Russian oil and products exports fell only to 7.5 million barrels a day (mbd) in September from 8.0 mbd prior to the Ukraine conflict*.

The important thing is that Russia’s annualized oil revenues in 2022 are estimated at *$301.13 bn based on an average Brent crude price of $110 a barrel compared with $201.48 bn in 2021 based on an average price of $69 or 50% higher.*

Dr Mamdouh G Salameh
International Oil Economist
Global Energy Expert


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581220257284313088

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## _Nabil_

🤔🤕


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580882360429867008

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## kingQamaR

Musk is right on this one. Starlink service was demanded by the Ukrainians with a sense of entitlement which he obliged. If armaments manufacturers are reaping billions supplying Ukraine, there is no reason why SpaceX shouldnt be remunerated for Starlink.

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581071906421510144
Good Job MBS, Palestinians, Kashmiris, Rohingyas, Sudanese, Lebanese, Yemenis, Somali, Egyptians don't have any need of those billions ....

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## ZeGerman

_Nabil_ said:


> This isn’t news since the revenues of oil producers the world over respond to rising or declining crude oil prices. Russia is no exception.
> 
> But the remarkable thing about Russia’s oil and petroleum products exports is that despite the harshest ever sanctions and embargoes imposed on a country, *Russian oil and products exports fell only to 7.5 million barrels a day (mbd) in September from 8.0 mbd prior to the Ukraine conflict*.
> 
> The important thing is that Russia’s annualized oil revenues in 2022 are estimated at *$301.13 bn based on an average Brent crude price of $110 a barrel compared with $201.48 bn in 2021 based on an average price of $69 or 50% higher.*
> 
> Dr Mamdouh G Salameh
> International Oil Economist
> Global Energy Expert
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581220257284313088


Oh it is news. 

Sanctions on oil and gas were mild cause reserves were at an all time low in europe. Together with post corona shortages this saw an enormous boom in prices for russia…managing them through the economic hardships. 

However that fun is going to end now reserves are filling up, alternatives are being found, demand will plummet, and recession will fall on top of that.

Russia could survive sanctions with gas at 150-200, lets see once it falls to 50. 

The should pray for a harsh european winter


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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580903093528510464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581186830463967232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581084108901744641

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## Beast

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580903093528510464
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581186830463967232
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581084108901744641


Even 3 years old kid know its Biden the idiot who blow the gas pipe.

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580916883590549504
Usual Social Darwinism and white supremacists we already know ....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581238323833892871

Ukraine has renewed its offensive towards Kherson


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581253736747261952

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581272936874246144

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## Reashot Xigwin

kingQamaR said:


> Musk is right on this one. Starlink service was demanded by the Ukrainians with a sense of entitlement which he obliged. If armaments manufacturers are reaping billions supplying Ukraine, there is no reason why SpaceX shouldnt be remunerated for Starlink.


Are u kidding me? Do you know that the bill for one starlink account is around $600. What elon wants is to make even more money of the hundreds of millions he already earned.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581268787420364802


----------



## aviator_fan

Ali_Baba said:


> $10.6 billion is a fantastic return on investment for the USA. Russia's best troops killed, best equipment destroyed. Red Army reputation destroyed. Putin - potentially politically neutered or dead. Picked up a new best friend in Ukraine for life. Broken the energy bond between the EU and Russia.. EU rapidily re-militarilising meaning it can withdraw it forces to focus on China more ...
> 
> What is there not to like about this for the USA... best $10.6 billion they have spent on anything ever ...
> 
> A strategic master-stroke from a bumbling fool's mistake in Ukraine ...


This is whats called taking advantage of an opportunity: there is no way US could have planned this Russia debacle, but its accelerated decision making and for once political will across both parties, were able to take advantage of Russia's poor decision making.

Putin was (before this) very successful in dividing democracies, doubting NATO, and causing divisions.

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL the Russians can't sends blanket to their troops but they can somehow sends children clothes to be used for propaganda. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581252675374456833


----------



## kingQamaR

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Are u kidding me? Do you know that the bill for one starlink account is around $600. What elon wants is to make even more money of the hundreds of millions he already earned.



OK so another company will offer free Internet to Ukraine? $20 million a month in war is peanuts. Musk has already given 20,000 terminals free and 6 months support. Ukraine, USA etc can pay.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Behold! The most advanced Russian air defense


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581046286223974401

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## aviator_fan

Beast said:


> Even 3 years old kid know its Biden the idiot who blow the gas pipe.


The same 3 year old would know its not a gas 'pipe', its 'pipeline'. Russia is played its worse chess moves in history by uniting NATO. You think US will ruin that once in a lifetime opportunity by blowing up a 'pipe'. Live your dreams with the 3 year old. Thats where they belong

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## Reashot Xigwin

kingQamaR said:


> OK so another company will offer free Internet to Ukraine? $20 million a month in war is peanuts. Musk has already given 20,000 terminals free and 6 months support. Ukraine, USA etc can pay.


They already paid. The reason I know it's 600 bucks each is because the Ukrainian shows the receipt. This is the average Ukrainian paying btw. Not subsidized in anyway.

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## Beast

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL the Russians can't sends blanket to their troops but they can somehow sends children clothes to be used for propaganda.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581252675374456833


There is no need propaganda, more than 80% of the 4 region of Ukraine population are ethic Russian. Why would they vote against joining Russia who will protect their heritage. language and same culture? You shall know that Ukraine has start a decree few years ago banning Russian culture and language from all its official usage.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Beast said:


> There is no need propaganda, more than 80% of the 4 region of Ukraine population are ethic Russian. Why would they vote against joining Russia who will protect their heritage. language and same culture? You shall know that Ukraine has start a decree few years ago banning Russian culture and language from all its official usage.



Zelensky is a Russian speaking Jew from Odessa... I don't need to tell you that what you just said is utter BS

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581213386456502272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581195445791264770


It's been days since the first mobilized are already coming home in trashbags.

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## Beast

aviator_fan said:


> The same 3 year old would know its not a gas 'pipe', its 'pipeline'. Russia is played its worse chess moves in history by uniting NATO. You think US will ruin that once in a lifetime opportunity by blowing up a 'pipe'. Live your dreams with the 3 year old. Thats where they belong


Nice propaganda from you. You shall know the basic logic why Russian blowing that pipe will never happened, You all treat us as idiot? That is how absurd the current media has become and they can even spread outright lies and think the rest of the world will buy it...

No wonder the India are bold enough to come out with a outright lie article claim INS VIkrant is more advance and better than Fujian aircraft carrier. Thinking even 3 years old kid will trust it...

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> OK so another company will offer free Internet to Ukraine? $20 million a month in war is peanuts. Musk has already given 20,000 terminals free and 6 months support. Ukraine, USA etc can pay.


Well, as the pentagon said, if Musk wanted to play hero, then he shouldn't ask Pentagon to foot the bill.

You need to look at it this way, Musk comes in and provided Starlink for free for almost 90% of Ukrainian Internet Usage, then he stopped, so you either have to pay for it, or pay other heaps of sum for someone else. You got to admit this is a very good (and greedy) business strategy, got you for free and you are hooked for its service, it's never the equipment that earn Musk the money, it's always the monthly usage fee.

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## Beast

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Zelensky is a Russian speaking Jew from Odessa... I don't need to tell you that what you just said is utter BS


What does Zelensky being a Jews got to do with Russian ethics want to rejoin Russia? You think that is hard to believe? And you believe those Ukraine ethics Russian want to give up Russian culture and speak Ukrainian? LOL..

Why not you claim Armenian in those region of Azerbaijan want to become Azeri? Or you can claim the globe is cube.

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL someone is losing the war. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581217629045690369


Beast said:


> What does Zelensky being a Jews got to do with Russian ethics want to rejoin Russia? You think that is hard to believe? And you believe those Ukraine ethics Russian want to give up Russian culture and speak Ukrainian? LOL..


Russian ethnics is the one that's fighting the most in the war right now. No Ukrainian Russian will be willing to join a failed state like Russia. Kinda like Taiwan... 

Fun fact: Identity are complicated.



Beast said:


> What does Zelensky being a Jews got to do with Russian ethics want to rejoin Russia? You think that is hard to believe? And you believe those Ukraine ethics Russian want to give up Russian culture and speak Ukrainian? LOL..


Russian ethnics is the one that's fighting the most in the war right now. No Ukrainian Russian will be willing to join a failed state like Russia. Kinda like Taiwan... 

Fun fact: Identity are complicated.

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## jhungary

Beast said:


> Nice propaganda from you. You shall know the basic logic why Russian blowing that pipe will never happened, You all treat us as idiot? That is how absurd the current media has become and they can even spread outright lies and think the rest of the world will buy it...
> 
> No wonder the India are bold enough to come out with a outright lie article claim INS VIkrant is more advance and better than Fujian aircraft carrier. Thinking even 3 years old kid will trust it...


Well, if US or EU or anyone want to blow up Russian Pipeline. They would have goes after NS2 not NS1 or more likely, BOTH. Because NS1 is old and not at all at capacity as NS1.

I mean, if US want to send a message, they would have gone after NS2, being newer and more money spent. And if US want EU to stop importing Russian gas, it would have gone after Both. It does not really make sense in a logical point of view to blow up NS1 and not NS2, which stopped supplying gas by the way, to try to EU for going to do something they had already gone out. I mean, there are slowball hell in chance EU is going to get any amount of gas from Russia after this, unless you are thinking the Entire EU parliament is a bunch of Idiots.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Any Ozzy here to confirm that Australian army only have kangaroo? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581179085669027840

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> Starlink service was demanded by the Ukrainians with a sense of entitlement which he obliged.


So NATO had no interest in UKrainian forces "getting Starlink"??


----------



## Beast

jhungary said:


> Well, if US or EU or anyone want to blow up Russian Pipeline. They would have goes after NS2 not NS1 or more likely, BOTH. Because NS1 is old and not at all at capacity as NS1.
> 
> I mean, if US want to send a message, they would have gone after NS2, being newer and more money spent. And if US want EU to stop importing Russian gas, it would have gone after Both. It does not really make sense in a logical point of view to blow up NS1 which stopped supplying gas by the way, to try to EU for going to do something they had already gone out. I mean, there are slowball hell in chance EU is going to get any amount of gas from Russia after this, unless you are thinking the Entire EU parliament is a bunch of Idiots.


NS1 is stopped but doesnt mean it cant be reactivated. Now its blow up, there is no chance of it being reactivate and used. Biden wanted to cut off these last hope for EU to depend on Russia for Gas. Russia is not stupid to cut off this last hope to blackmail EU. They are not stupid to cut off their own hand. 

With Russia pipe off. EU now has no choice but to buy American gas at whatever price US dictate.


----------



## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Any Ozzy here to confirm that Australian army only have kangaroo?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581179085669027840


If we import half of our kangaroo in Russia, it will probably destroy their entire habitats.

And no, we don't have Kangaroo in Australian Army, we have Emu, which is even more deadlier.



Beast said:


> NS1 is stopped but doesnt mean it cant be reactivated. Now its blow up, there is no chance of it being reactivate and used. Biden wanted to cut off these last hope for EU to depend on Russia for Gas. Russia is not stupid to cut off this last hope to blackmail EU. They are not stupid to cut off their own hand.
> 
> With Russia pipe off. EU now has no choice but to buy American gas at whatever price US dictate.


The point being, NS1 is an old pipeline, blowing it up didn't really serve the 2 major reason people believe US is behind this. It didn't hurt Russia as much because it is old. 

What about NS2? If I want to cut off these last hops for EU to depend on Russia for Gas, why NS2 still standing then?? You are talking about Biden want to cut off these last hope, which mean their goal is to stop Russia from being able to blackmail EU once again, which mean Biden would have taken down both NS1 and NS2. I mean, why leaving NS2 standing?? So Russia can blackmail EU again? What you are saying did not make sense.

On the other hand, it would be a snowball chance in hell for EU to go back to Russia for gas, that's like saying Ukraine have a chance to mend its ties with Russia in the next 10 years.

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## PakFactor

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Any Ozzy here to confirm that Australian army only have kangaroo?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581179085669027840



LOL


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## jhungary




----------



## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> If we import half of our kangaroo in Russia, it will probably destroy their entire habitats.
> 
> And no, we don't have Kangaroo in Australian Army, we have Emu, which is even more deadlier.
> 
> 
> The point being, NS1 is an old pipeline, blowing it up didn't really serve the 2 major reason people believe US is behind this. It didn't hurt Russia as much because it is old.
> 
> What about NS2? If I want to cut off these last hops for EU to depend on Russia for Gas, why NS2 still standing then?? You are talking about Biden want to cut off these last hope, which mean their goal is to stop Russia from being able to blackmail EU once again, which mean Biden would have taken down both NS1 and NS2. I mean, why leaving NS2 standing?? So Russia can blackmail EU again? What you are saying did not make sense.
> 
> On the other hand, it would be a snowball chance in hell for EU to go back to Russia for gas, that's like saying Ukraine have a chance to mend its ties with Russia in the next 10 years.


Ah yes of course the Emu war... Who could forget about those damnable bird


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## PakFactor

Beast said:


> NS1 is stopped but doesnt mean it cant be reactivated. Now its blow up, there is no chance of it being reactivate and used. Biden wanted to cut off these last hope for EU to depend on Russia for Gas. Russia is not stupid to cut off this last hope to blackmail EU. They are not stupid to cut off their own hand.
> 
> With Russia pipe off. EU now has no choice but to buy American gas at whatever price US dictate.



Bro, who cares who blew it up? Not like having it intact would have saved Russia's backside in this conflict. You guys are arguing for the sake of arguing.


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## Reashot Xigwin

I'm currently playing with the world smallest violin 🎻 right now. Also what's schadenfreude in Russia?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581114404544086018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581130968945295361


PakFactor said:


> Bro, who cares who blew it up? Not like having it intact would have saved Russia's backside in this conflict. You guys are arguing for the sake of arguing.


It's one of those cases of who gives a 💩💩💩. 

Like not even Germany cared that much about it.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Someone probs already posted this but what the hell. Putin getting the L it deserved. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581017812264398848

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## A.P. Richelieu

How will the Ukraine war end even if Ukraine pushes Russia out? Russia can just keep lobbing missiles into Ukraine for decades.


Misha Firer's answer: Retired colonel Mikhail Khodorenko was a whipping boy to Putin’s fantasies on Russian propaganda tv. In early modern Europe, a whipping boy was a boy who studied along with a prince and received punishment for the prince's transgressions in his presence. Mikhail Khodarenko...




qr.ae




*Misha Firer
How will the Ukraine war end even if Ukraine pushes Russia out? Russia can just keep lobbing missiles into Ukraine for decades.*




Retired colonel Mikhail Khodorenko was a whipping boy to Putin’s fantasies on Russian propaganda tv.
In early modern Europe, a whipping boy was a boy who studied along with a prince and received punishment for the prince's transgressions in his presence.
Mikhail Khodarenko, military expert, retired colonel, and ex-head of the 1st Group of the 1st Direction of the 1st Directorate of the Main Operational Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces had obediently served as a whipping boy on Russian propaganda talk shows for ages.
Royal propagandists would say stupid slogans like “we’re gonna defeat Ukraine in ten minutes” and Khodarenko would counter them with evidence and facts based rebuffs.
For the transgression against Putin’s wet dreams, Khodarenko would immediately get whipped - ridiculed, shouted at, scoffed, and when words failed, beaten.
Ironically, Khodarenko was the only sane person in the lunatic asylum of Russian television while all of the deranged Russia laughed at him believing he was a funny clown.
Unsuccessful invasion of Ukraine has turned the tables, and it’s safe to say now: In Russia, whipping boy whips you.
Two weeks before the invasion, Khodorenko published an article "*Forecasts of Bloodthirsty Political Scientists. About Enthusiastic Hawks and Hasty Cuckoos*" in Nezavisimaya Newspaper with his predictions of what to expect if Russia attacks Ukraine.
Here are some excerpts. I began to mark in italics colonel’s predictions that would come true until realising that the man whom Russian propaganda used as a buffoon has predicted everything absolutely correctly.


“Some representatives of the Russian political class today argue that Russia is able to inflict a crushing defeat on Ukraine in a few hours (shorter terms are also mentioned) if a military conflict breaks out. Let's see how such statements correspond to reality.
In the expert community of Russia, the opinion has recently taken root quite strongly that it will not even be necessary to send troops to the territory of Ukraine, since the Armed Forces of this country are in a deplorable state.
Some political analysts emphasize that a powerful Russian fire strike will destroy almost all surveillance and communication systems, artillery and tank formations. Moreover, a number of experts conclude that even one crushing blow from Russia will be enough to end such a war.
As a cherry on the cake, some analysts emphasize the fact that no one in Ukraine will defend the “Kyiv Regime”.

*THERE WILL NOT BE AN EASY WALK*
To assert that no one in Ukraine will defend the regime means, in practice, complete ignorance of the military-political situation and the mood of the broad masses of the people in the neighboring state.
Moreover, the degree of hatred (which, as you know, is the most effective fuel for armed struggle) in the neighboring republic in relation to Moscow is frankly underestimated. No one will meet the Russian army with bread, salt and flowers in Ukraine.
It seems that the events in the south-east of Ukraine in 2014 did not teach anyone anything. Then, after all, they also expected that the entire left-bank Ukraine would turn into Novorossia in a single impulse and in a matter of seconds. We have already drawn maps, figured out the personnel of future administrations of cities and regions, and developed state flags.
But even the Russian-speaking population of this part of Ukraine (including such cities as Kharkov, Zaporozhye, Dnepropetrovsk, Mariupol) did not support such plans in their vast majority. The project "Novorossiya" was somehow imperceptibly blown away and quietly died.
In a word, the liberation campaign in 2022, following the model and likeness of 1939, will not work out in any way.

*WE WILL INFLICT A POWERFUL BLOW WITH LITTLE SPILT BLOOD.*
Of course, MOU (massive strategic strikes) will inflict heavy losses on a potential enemy. But to expect to crush the armed forces of an entire state with just one such blow means to show simply unbridled optimism in the course of planning and conducting combat operations.
Such MOUs in the course of hypothetical strategic actions on the theater of operations will have to be delivered not one or two, but much more.
It must be added by all means that the stocks of promising and high-precision weapons in the RF Armed Forces are not of any unlimited nature.
Hypersonic missiles of the Zircon type are not yet in service.
And the number of Kalibr (sea-launched cruise missiles), Kinzhals, Kh-101 (air-launched cruise missiles) and Iskander missiles is measured in the hundreds at best (tens in the case of Kinzhals).
This arsenal is absolutely not enough to wipe out a state the size of France and with a population of more than 40 million from the face of the Earth. Namely, Ukraine is characterized by such parameters.

*ABOUT AIR SUPERIORITY*
Sometimes it is asserted in the Russian expert community (followers of the Douai doctrine) that since the hypothetical military operations in Ukraine will take place under the conditions of complete dominance of Russian aircraft in the air, the war will be extremely short and will end in the shortest possible time.
At the same time, it is somehow forgotten that the armed formations of the Afghan opposition during the conflict of 1979-1989 did not have a single aircraft and not a single combat helicopter. And the war in this country dragged on for as much as 10 years.
The Chechen fighters did not have a single aircraft either. And the fight against them continued for several years and cost the federal forces a lot of blood and casualties.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine still have combat aircraft as well as means of air defence.

*MOURNED IN ADVANCE*
Now about the thesis "The Armed Forces of Ukraine are in a deplorable state."
Of course, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have problems with aviation and modern air defense systems. But the following must also be acknowledged.
If before 2014 the Armed Forces of Ukraine were a fragment of the Soviet army, then over the past seven years a qualitatively different army has been created in Ukraine, on a completely different ideological basis and largely on NATO standards.
And very modern weapons and equipment are being supplied and continue to be supplied to Ukraine from many countries of the NATO.
This army cannot be taken lightly. In this regard, one must always remember the testament of Alexander Suvorov: "Never despise your enemy, do not consider him dumber and weaker than you."
With regard to the assertion that Western countries will not send a single soldier to die for Ukraine.
It should be noted that this is likely to be the case. However, in the event of Russia's invasion, this does not at all rule out massive assistance to the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the collective West with a wide variety of weapons and military equipment and bulk deliveries of all kinds of materiel.
In this regard, the West has already shown a consolidated position, unprecedented until now, which, it seems, was not predicted in Moscow.
There is no doubt that the United States and the countries of the NATO will begin some kind of reincarnation of Lend-Lease, modeled after the Second World War. An influx of volunteers from the West, which can be very numerous, is not ruled out.

*PARTISANS AND UNDERGROUND*
And finally, about the duration of a hypothetical campaign.
In the Russian expert community, several hours are called, sometimes even several tens of minutes for the operation. At the same time, it is somehow forgotten that we have already gone through all this.
The phrase "take the city with one airborne regiment in two hours" has already become a classic of the satire genre.
It is also worth recalling that the mighty Stalinist NKVD and the multi-million Soviet army fought the nationalist underground in Western Ukraine for more than 10 years.
There is an option that the whole of Ukraine can easily become partisans. In addition, these formations can easily begin to operate already on the territory of Russia.
The armed struggle in large Ukrainian cities is generally difficult to predict. It is common knowledge that the big city is the best battlefield for the weak and less technically advanced side of the armed conflict.
Serious experts emphasize that in an urban area it is possible not only to concentrate a grouping of thousands and even tens of thousands of fighters, but also to hide it from the superior firepower of the enemy and to supply it with material resources for a long time and make up for losses in people and equipment. Neither mountains, nor forests, nor jungles today provide such an opportunity.
Experts are convinced that the urban environment helps the defenders, slows down the movement of the attackers, allows you to place a record number of fighters per unit area, and compensates for the lag in forces and technologies.
The Russian army in the course of a hypothetical war with Ukraine may meet another Stalingrad and Grozny.

*CONCLUSIONS*
In general, there will be no Ukrainian blitzkrieg.
The statements of some experts such as “The Russian army will defeat most of the units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in 30-40 minutes”, “Russia is able to defeat Ukraine in 10 minutes in the event of a full-scale war”, “Russia will defeat Ukraine in eight minutes” have no solid grounds.
An armed conflict with Ukraine is currently fundamentally not in Russia's national interests.
Therefore, it is best for some overexcited Russian experts to forget about their fantasies of hatred.
And in order to prevent further reputational losses, they should forget about them.


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## Ali_Baba

Putin listens to lectures from the President of TAJIKISTAN ....​








Now Putin has to listen to lectures from the President of TAJIKISTAN


A glum and awkward looking Putin slouched back in his chair and took the seven minute tirade as a host of Central Asian leaders and officials watched on at the summit in the Astana, Kazakhstan.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> when you are down - you are down!!!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581293614562299904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581296036852641793

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## Reashot Xigwin

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin listens to lectures from the President of TAJIKISTAN ....​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now Putin has to listen to lectures from the President of TAJIKISTAN
> 
> 
> A glum and awkward looking Putin slouched back in his chair and took the seven minute tirade as a host of Central Asian leaders and officials watched on at the summit in the Astana, Kazakhstan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> when you are down - you are down!!!


I hope there's a rwanda like event for the russian in the region... It sorely needed.


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## A.P. Richelieu

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580903093528510464
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581186830463967232
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581084108901744641


Another load of BS.
Sweden is following normal procedures on this investigation,
That means not inviting Russia or any other country into the investigation.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581302887501955075

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## gambit

BHAN85 said:


> Starlink jamming should active Article V of NATO, because a American company is under attack. It's sabotage "infrastructures", like blow up a gas pipe.


When Musk made Starlink available to Ukraine, Musk and Starlink became biased belligerents in a conflict.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Behold! The most advanced Russian air defense
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581046286223974401



This is actually VERY smart. These fire at 100 rounds per minute and the 57mm rounds would reduce an IFV column into ground meat and metal in short order. These are very effective in a support role for the infantry. The same is with the Gepard, the Shilka, the Rheinmetall Zwiesola (2x20mm). 

They would also still be good against any drones, helicopters, or slow and low flying planes Ukraine might still have. 

And this thing can take down any house, any ifv, and smash infantry into pieces.

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## _Nabil_

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581293614562299904
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581296036852641793




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581304705925668871

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581305824734896128


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## Reashot Xigwin

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is actually VERY smart. These fire at 100 rounds per minute and the 57mm rounds would reduce an IFV column into ground meat and metal in short order. These are very effective in a support role for the infantry. The same is with the Gepard, the Shilka, the Rheinmetall Zwiesola (2x20mm).
> 
> They would also still be good against any drones, helicopters, or slow and low flying planes Ukraine might still have.
> 
> And this thing can take down any house, any ifv, and smash infantry into pieces.


Those things are rusted...



_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581304705925668871




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581193149149388802


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## Viet

Russia military is a bunch of rapists.
Says nobody else but the UN.









Russia using rape as 'military strategy' in Ukraine: UN envoy


Russia is using rape and sexual violence as part of its "military strategy" in Ukraine, a UN envoy said this week.




amp.cnn.com


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581311411480715264

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## _Nabil_

The #AFU offensive is underway in the north of the #Kherson pocket.

It uses aerial means: planes and helicopters. What does Russian anti-aircraft defense do? Where is the Russian Air Force?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581316225983913985

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## Parwaz e Ishq

jhungary said:


> What about NS2? If I want to cut off these last hops for EU to depend on Russia for Gas, why NS2 still standing then??



only ONE pipe of NS2 (somehow) remained intact. Not all pipes of NS2.

Hence it is clear that both NS1 NS2 were intended targets.

Your whole argumentation is based on your own assumption that NS2 was not the target.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580784976907280384

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581325886652968962


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Those things are rusted...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581193149149388802



Man, you're showing around an old man who is unarmed. Those human wave attacks that the Ukrainians have been sending to the Kherson front have been crushed. 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581303524553461760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581274179433017346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581309777702838272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581301612869750785

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581304705925668871

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581328955822333956

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## zectech

Tucker Carlson: Company Man









Tucker Carlson: Company Man


In this video I document the numerous connections Tucker Carlson has to the CIA, an agency which allegedly rejected his application when he applied right out of college. We are supposed to believe tha...




odysee.com





Delves into the history of Tucker, Tuckers father. Their links to cia connected groups, PNACers, neo-cons, and other deepstaters. The only fair conclusion: Tucker is run by cia assets and is a cia asset. Since that is so, the cia Washington agenda is to destroy Europe. While the neo-lib Democratic Party Beltway State and Defense Departments send Ukraine limited amounts of weapons to drag this war on to have Europe suffer month after month of inflation and economic turmoil. With the goal of political, societal, and economy collapse of the EU. Watch the entire video. The pro-Russia narrative of Tucker is from the Trumper and deepstate cia goal to destroy the EU, since Tucker is a cia asset. Neo-nationalist conservative statists is the cia brand. Putin is a cia brand. Tucker preaches that authoritarian conservative cia statism brand on Faux News. The same authoritiarian cia brand that is promoted in cia coups around the globe, Russia included. Tucker, Russian Republicans and Trump are the cia coup in the US to turn it into a Russian-style autocracy state.









The Real Deep State Is Trump


How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom




newrepublic.com













Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède


Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède




www.theguardian.com





These deepstaters would get covertly excited over Ukraine/Germany/EU being nuked, overtly blame Russian Muslims for the nuking or defending Putin with any "excuse" (Americans in, Russians out and Germany down... with nuking Germany off the map, Germany is down for a long while as is the goal of US/UK policy - if protecting Germany from nukes is the policy of the US, then have cold war policy if NATO gets nuked by Russia, have US nuke Russia off the map... except since Tucker/Trump/Pompeo cia are partners with Russia, there is no reason to protect Europe when Europe is a rival of the US). China also wants Europe nuked, to punish whitey for Trump. Putin is begging for excuses to nuke the EU.

If Trump returns and nukes China. And China is unable to hit the US because of US defenses, China would want to nuke Europeans, to punish NATO, as China is getting nuked. Read the 50 cent Chinese on the forums. They are only able to parrot Beijing Policy. "Punish whitey for Trump. NATO is the enemy of China. Russia destroy Europe in revenge for Trump being white." Ukraine is not NATO, Ukraine wants to be part of the EU, something that supported trade and healthy bilateral relations with China. And China wants Russia to destroy Ukraine and the EU. If that is not a warning that in the event of Trump nuking China and China unable to hit the USA... China would take out revenge and nuke Europe. UK an London would be protected by US nuke shield. Nuke shield would not cover Germany less than 200 km away from UK, because the USA does not want Germany to be safe from nukes from Putin or China. Trump backed Russia and China backed Russia blew up the pipeline for the purpose to destroy the EU economy, particularly Germany. Tucker/Trump/Pompeo cia want the EU in shambles. As does China and Russia.

Europeans need to learn from Franco. Franco survived for so long by taking the help of the Great Powers. Yet not joining the war of the warmongering UK/US deepstate. Had Franco joined the war, Franco would have shared the fate of Mussolini. Instead Nationalist Spain lived on. And Spain determined her fate. And was not vilified as Germans were. Learn the lessons of Mussolini. Mussolini wanted to knock out Hitler in 1934 and needed France and UK to help defeat Germany. Taking Hitler out before it gets too strong and before Germany was militarily/strategically powerful prevents much loss. Had UK and France gone along with Mussolini to kill Hitler in 1934, there would have been no Second World War, as we know it with total war. Hitler would have been defeated within months, as Germany had not rearmed. So take opportunities to defeat the Hitlers of Europe and not let Putin win. So learn to balance these two lessons. They are seemingly conflict. Peace, yet war. Or Peace, and arm Ukraine to defend Europe. Or better... Peace, and let fully nuclear armed nations arm Ukraine.

_Hitlers first major diplomatic play was the first attempt to Annex Austria into the newly minted German Reich. Working in close cooperation with Austrian [Nazis], they moved to remove the Austrian [fascist] government in early 34, Arresting or killing notable members of the democratically chosen government, and occupying important buildings and generally preparing to establish a regime not unlike Hitler's with the final goal of Anschluss. While most of Europe did not act. Mussolini was forced to intervene, not because he wanted to, but rather due to political and strategic reasons.

The strategic reason was that he did not fully trust Hitler, and wanted to keep a bufferzone between him and Germany. The second more important reason was that he knew that the annexation of Austria would serve as a powerful tool in forcing other Germans speakers to join his Reich. Alongside this, Mussolini knew that many people in South Tirol were sympathetic to the new Nazi regime and chances were that if given the chance they would join the Reich, regardless of what Italy wanted.

The result was possibly the closest the world came to ending Hitler before the war started. Mussolini ordered Comando Supremo to deploy troops to the Brenner Pass, and begin raising the additional 28 divisions for war. Its estimated that at the time Hitler pulled out of Austria, the italians had 8 divisions of troops at the Austrian Border, and another 4 positioned behind that, and apparently plans had been drawn up to invade within 4 hours of the order being given to do so.

This extremely aggressive stance meant that Hitler, who at this point, had nowhere near the means to fight the huge, if poorly equipped Italian army, had to pull out of Austria, and likewise did so. After this set of events, Italian Fascists, along with various democratic groups moved and arrested large numbers of Austrian Nazis and German agents, while restoring the Austrian government to its previous status.

This meant that the relations between the 2 Fascist regimes were cold, if not outright hostile to each other, until the Italian annexation of Abyssinia, which will be the subject of another article._






Mussolini and Hitler, a troubled relationship, Part 1


When discussing World War 2, there is very little attention given to the relation that the leaders of the Fascist block had, if anything, the usual portrayal is that Mussolini and Hitler were the best of friends, who shared their view on many things. The truth is a bit more complex, and it can be...




forum.warthunder.com





This is forbidden history. Telling of a time when Mussolini wanted to fight Hitler to defend Italy and defend fascist Austria. It is history nearly erased from the internet. The Critical Race Theory of "whitey bad", is that Italy was bad with Mussolini. And that fascism and nazism is the same ideology. Failing to address that Nazis killed Devout Catholic Fascists in Austria. This does not even delve into the history of Italy asking for aid to defeat Hitler from France and UK. That piece of info is nearly banned from the internet by the Entente cia that run the internet search results. I learned that from a book. The war would have been easy with French and UK forces in a 1934 war vs Nazi Germany. Both passed and let Hitler annex this and annex that territory. Letting Putin take over Ukraine, then Baltic, then Finland, then Georgia, then Azerbaijan, then Poland... Putin is the new Hitler and you have to defend Europe with careful thought.

Though if you want to comprehend the background and backers of Tucker, watch the 1/2 hour video exposing Tucker as a cia deepstate fraud. There to get the public to oppose the EU and support Russian Republicans. Faux News says the pipeline was a false flag done by Biden and Democrats. If that does not stink of lies...

The Republicans are the party that wanted to shut down the pipeline because EU was set up. The rivals of Trump and Russian Republicans were Iran, EU and China. Russia was a tool to destroy Europe. Republicans did not want Russian cheap gas fueling a vibrant EU economy. European "goodwill" to integrate Russia into the EU economy was a failure because Putin is planning the destruction of Europe, not economic trade with Europe. And Trumper Putin is using the war to harm the EU.









Exclusive-- Trump on Nord Stream 2: ‘I Shut It Down,’ Biden ‘Opened It Up’


Former GOP President Donald Trump is bashing President Joe Biden for opening up the Nord Stream 2 pipeline for Russians.




www.breitbart.com





Gales of stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3, 2...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## MeFishToo

Beast said:


> There is no need propaganda, more than 80% of the 4 region of Ukraine population are ethic Russian. Why would they vote against joining Russia who will protect their heritage. language and same culture? You shall know that Ukraine has start a decree few years ago banning Russian culture and language from all its official usage.


Who wouldnt VOTE yes to become part of an autocracy, right? Speaking russian doesnt mean those people are idiots.


----------



## Viet

Ouch!


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581296046726033411

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581295648649146368

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Ouch!



This is why the defence of Ukraine will depend on Ukraines ability to reach deep into Russia and strike targets at will. A lesson for the Ukranians for the future.


----------



## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> This is why the defence of Ukraine will depend on Ukraines ability to reach deep into Russia and strike targets at will. A lesson for the Ukranians for the future.


This russian city is the central logistic hub for Russian tanks, armored vehicles and other heavy equipment.


----------



## MeFishToo

Seems really stupid placing two launchers this close. Lancet drone taking out two S300 launchers

Reactions: Like Like:
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## zectech

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580235007972343822

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577813270483828737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577823772354039808
The Democrats in the US need a TV Ad called: Putin Manipulation.

In Europe and America: social, economic and political unrest is being fueled by Putin and Putin is fanning the flames. To have Democrats lose in the US. To have Social Democrats lose in Europe.

Due to Putins effort, inflation is double digit in much of Europe. The expectation is Putin supporters in Europe would grow with economic and social unrest, a Russian coup.

Putin is manipulating you, not to help you. To ruin enemies of Russia. To turn the US and Europe into Russian-style autocratic criminal states, owned by cia linked Chabad, cia linked Russian Mafia and other cia linked criminals.

Most of the entire globe is experiencing inflation. Putin wants to hide this and make it seem your anti-Putin politician is to blame for the inflation. "Your neo-liberal mayor is to blame for inflation", says the Putinite. Their only solution "is for you to vote in Trumpers and Putinites puppets of the deepstate into your mayoral seat."

The same Russian Republicans that want the EU to crash, cheer for Russia in Ukraine, cheer for Russia defeating the EU... are the Russian Republicans that blame Putins pipeline explosion on Biden. Russian Republicans blame the explosion on the enemy of Russian Republicans and Putin - Biden.

True statement: "NATO is being attacked economically, socially and politically. Russia wants to destroy NATO Europe. The pipeline was helping to save the NATO economy."

Question: "Then who did the attack on the pipeline"

Russian Republican Troll: "NATO"

Russian Republicans oppose NATO, oppose the Democrats, so they blame Democrats.









Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book


‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said




www.independent.co.uk













Donald Trump has repeatedly suggested leaving NATO: Report


President Trump floated the idea of withdrawing the U.S. from NATO among his officials several times last year, The New York Times reported late Monday night.




www.washingtontimes.com





NATO chief said Europe cannot defend from Russia, Europe needs the US. So the Russian Republicans want to abandon Europe to Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502387779749257216
Meaning those that support Putin are also Trumpers and Tucker Carlsonites. It is the cia plot destroy rivals, Russian Republicans using puppet Putin.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581329733769629696

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581358572403032064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581358325668536320

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
3


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## jhungary

Parwaz e Ishq said:


> only ONE pipe of NS2 (somehow) remained intact. Not all pipes of NS2.
> 
> Hence it is clear that both NS1 NS2 were intended targets.
> 
> Your whole argumentation is based on your own assumption that NS2 was not the target.


Just because NS2 is damage does not mean it was targeted.

NS2 damage can be collateral. Especially the stretch that got damage is near Denmark which 2 pipeline close to each other to a point it is overlapped.







On the other hand, if US is behind and targeting both pipelines, would you think US are not capable enough to bring down both pipeline??


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581366150377533440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581125053445378051

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581302892472201216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581301612869750785

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Seems really stupid placing two launchers this close. Lancet drone taking out two S300 launchers


Think some page ago someone posted this is a decoy from the OSINT guy??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Man, you're showing around an old man who is unarmed. Those human wave attacks that the Ukrainians have been sending to the Kherson front have been crushed. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581303524553461760
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581274179433017346
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581309777702838272
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581301612869750785


Yeah sure. We have seen those stupid reports before…and then russian kharkiv and part kherson lines collapsed….

Seems the offensive had restarted. 
Lets give it a week to see if the russians can resist in the kherson pressurecooker.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Soldier35

Details about the French VAB armored vehicle of the Ukrainian army. The armored vehicle was developed by Renault and Savier in 1976 and was produced in different versions. The VAB 4x4 version armed with a 12.7 mm M2 Browning machine gun was delivered to Ukraine. VAB armor provides protection only from 7.62 mm bullets, for which the car has been repeatedly criticized. There was also a weak protection against mines. The crew of the car is 2 people, the landing force is 10 people. Armored vehicle engine power - 300 hp The maximum speed on the highway is 110 km / h. Fuel range is about 1000 km. The armored car in various modifications is in service with about 15 countries.






Powerful defensive lines with the help of engineering equipment are created by the Russian PMC Wagner in Ukraine. Engineering units of PMC Wagner installed concrete tetrahedrons, anti-tank gouges, ditches and trenches were dug. Firing positions for infantry and equipment were created, and mining of the territory was probably carried out on the approaches to the defense line.






The Ukrainian army began to use the English counter-battery system MAMBA ARTHUR. It was reported that the MAMBA radar was supplied from England, but the experts found out that this is a similar Swedish ARTHUR radar of modification "A". The MAMBA ARTHUR radar is a mobile radar designed to determine the location of firing installations in the direction of their firing. The detection range of firing positions of 82-mm mortars is 20 km, of 120-mm mortars - up to 35 km, MLRS - up to 45 km, the accuracy of determining coordinates - up to 25 m, the system fixes - up to 100 targets per minute. Data on priority targets are transmitted to the control point in automatic or semi-automatic mode. To expand the search area, a network of four radars can be created. The radar is placed on the chassis of the Bv206 all-terrain vehicle. The cost of the ARTHUR radar, 5 million dollars.






Fight in Ukraine. Russian units, noticing a column of Ukrainian armored vehicles and firing points near the forest belt, aimed several tanks at them. UAV operators comment and correct the fire of tanks.


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## jhungary

lol Elon Musk did a 180.....

Probably after being called out by almost everyone


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581329971163041792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581326099724005376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581304747927404545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581336282474897413

Reactions: Like Like:
4


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581317507486740481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581310650982096897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581313922140753922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581299912406622209

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## RoadAmerica

ziaulislam said:


> You are saying that patients I am seeing in my clinic are my delusions..??
> Homeless and hungry Appalachians is reality that some people don't want to see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBS USA owned...


No i said you bs claim of the worst living conditions in the developed world are bs.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581317507486740481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581310650982096897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581313922140753922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581299912406622209

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## A.P. Richelieu

Soldier35 said:


> Details about the French VAB armored vehicle of the Ukrainian army. The armored vehicle was developed by Renault and Savier in 1976 and was produced in different versions. The VAB 4x4 version armed with a 12.7 mm M2 Browning machine gun was delivered to Ukraine. VAB armor provides protection only from 7.62 mm bullets, for which the car has been repeatedly criticized. There was also a weak protection against mines. The crew of the car is 2 people, the landing force is 10 people. Armored vehicle engine power - 300 hp The maximum speed on the highway is 110 km / h. Fuel range is about 1000 km. The armored car in various modifications is in service with about 15 countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powerful defensive lines with the help of engineering equipment are created by the Russian PMC Wagner in Ukraine. Engineering units of PMC Wagner installed concrete tetrahedrons, anti-tank gouges, ditches and trenches were dug. Firing positions for infantry and equipment were created, and mining of the territory was probably carried out on the approaches to the defense line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukrainian army began to use the English counter-battery system MAMBA ARTHUR. It was reported that the MAMBA radar was supplied from England, but the experts found out that this is a similar Swedish ARTHUR radar of modification "A". The MAMBA ARTHUR radar is a mobile radar designed to determine the location of firing installations in the direction of their firing. The detection range of firing positions of 82-mm mortars is 20 km, of 120-mm mortars - up to 35 km, MLRS - up to 45 km, the accuracy of determining coordinates - up to 25 m, the system fixes - up to 100 targets per minute. Data on priority targets are transmitted to the control point in automatic or semi-automatic mode. To expand the search area, a network of four radars can be created. The radar is placed on the chassis of the Bv206 all-terrain vehicle. The cost of the ARTHUR radar, 5 million dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fight in Ukraine. Russian units, noticing a column of Ukrainian armored vehicles and firing points near the forest belt, aimed several tanks at them. UAV operators comment and correct the fire of tanks.


Maybe the ”experts” found the Wiki page ;-)








ARTHUR (radar) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> Think some page ago someone posted this is a decoy from the OSINT guy??


I believe that was a BUK system, decoy or not. This S300 strike looks legit. I realize they didnt have much space setting up the system, but seems really stupid parking right next to one another.
I think they have a BUK operating at 0.09 left corner of the video.
They need some old school anti aircraft guns defending against those drones, or maybe call in members of the clay pigeon shooting association to shoot down those slow and low flying drones.


----------



## aviator_fan

Beast said:


> Nice propaganda from you. You shall know the basic logic why Russian blowing that pipe will never happened, You all treat us as idiot? That is how absurd the current media has become and they can even spread outright lies and think the rest of the world will buy it...
> 
> No wonder the India are bold enough to come out with a outright lie article claim INS VIkrant is more advance and better than Fujian aircraft carrier. Thinking even 3 years old kid will trust it...


Actually its not treating anybody like an idiot. I see no reason that NATO or US would sabotage the pipeline despite sci fi stories saying that this is what happened.

There is also no proof that Russians did it. Everybody on the keyboard then just stop accusing who did it as if they have some inside information when no news exist so then lets talk about stuff that is occuriring then (blowing up bridges, dead solders)



zectech said:


> Tucker Carlson: Company Man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tucker Carlson: Company Man
> 
> 
> In this video I document the numerous connections Tucker Carlson has to the CIA, an agency which allegedly rejected his application when he applied right out of college. We are supposed to believe tha...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> odysee.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delves into the history of Tucker, Tuckers father. Their links to cia connected groups, PNACers, neo-cons, and other deepstaters. The only fair conclusion: Tucker is run by cia assets and is a cia asset. Since that is so, the cia Washington agenda is to destroy Europe. While the neo-lib Democratic Party Beltway State and Defense Departments send Ukraine limited amounts of weapons to drag this war on to have Europe suffer month after month of inflation and economic turmoil. With the goal of political, societal, and economy collapse of the EU. Watch the entire video. The pro-Russia narrative of Tucker is from the Trumper and deepstate cia goal to destroy the EU, since Tucker is a cia asset. Neo-nationalist conservative statists is the cia brand. Putin is a cia brand. Tucker preaches that authoritarian conservative cia statism brand on Faux News. The same authoritiarian cia brand that is promoted in cia coups around the globe, Russia included. Tucker, Russian Republicans and Trump are the cia coup in the US to turn it into a Russian-style autocracy state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Real Deep State Is Trump
> 
> 
> How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> newrepublic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède
> 
> 
> Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These deepstaters would get covertly excited over Ukraine/Germany/EU being nuked, overtly blame Russian Muslims for the nuking or defending Putin with any "excuse" (Americans in, Russians out and Germany down... with nuking Germany off the map, Germany is down for a long while as is the goal of US/UK policy - if protecting Germany from nukes is the policy of the US, then have cold war policy if NATO gets nuked by Russia, have US nuke Russia off the map... except since Tucker/Trump/Pompeo cia are partners with Russia, there is no reason to protect Europe when Europe is a rival of the US). China also wants Europe nuked, to punish whitey for Trump. Putin is begging for excuses to nuke the EU.
> 
> If Trump returns and nukes China. And China is unable to hit the US because of US defenses, China would want to nuke Europeans, to punish NATO, as China is getting nuked. Read the 50 cent Chinese on the forums. They are only able to parrot Beijing Policy. "Punish whitey for Trump. NATO is the enemy of China. Russia destroy Europe in revenge for Trump being white." Ukraine is not NATO, Ukraine wants to be part of the EU, something that supported trade and healthy bilateral relations with China. And China wants Russia to destroy Ukraine and the EU. If that is not a warning that in the event of Trump nuking China and China unable to hit the USA... China would take out revenge and nuke Europe. UK an London would be protected by US nuke shield. Nuke shield would not cover Germany less than 200 km away from UK, because the USA does not want Germany to be safe from nukes from Putin or China. Trump backed Russia and China backed Russia blew up the pipeline for the purpose to destroy the EU economy, particularly Germany. Tucker/Trump/Pompeo cia want the EU in shambles. As does China and Russia.
> 
> Europeans need to learn from Franco. Franco survived for so long by taking the help of the Great Powers. Yet not joining the war of the warmongering UK/US deepstate. Had Franco joined the war, Franco would have shared the fate of Mussolini. Instead Nationalist Spain lived on. And Spain determined her fate. And was not vilified as Germans were. Learn the lessons of Mussolini. Mussolini wanted to knock out Hitler in 1934 and needed France and UK to help defeat Germany. Taking Hitler out before it gets too strong and before Germany was militarily/strategically powerful prevents much loss. Had UK and France gone along with Mussolini to kill Hitler in 1934, there would have been no Second World War, as we know it with total war. Hitler would have been defeated within months, as Germany had not rearmed. So take opportunities to defeat the Hitlers of Europe and not let Putin win. So learn to balance these two lessons. They are seemingly conflict. Peace, yet war. Or Peace, and arm Ukraine to defend Europe. Or better... Peace, and let fully nuclear armed nations arm Ukraine.
> 
> _Hitlers first major diplomatic play was the first attempt to Annex Austria into the newly minted German Reich. Working in close cooperation with Austrian [Nazis], they moved to remove the Austrian [fascist] government in early 34, Arresting or killing notable members of the democratically chosen government, and occupying important buildings and generally preparing to establish a regime not unlike Hitler's with the final goal of Anschluss. While most of Europe did not act. Mussolini was forced to intervene, not because he wanted to, but rather due to political and strategic reasons.
> 
> The strategic reason was that he did not fully trust Hitler, and wanted to keep a bufferzone between him and Germany. The second more important reason was that he knew that the annexation of Austria would serve as a powerful tool in forcing other Germans speakers to join his Reich. Alongside this, Mussolini knew that many people in South Tirol were sympathetic to the new Nazi regime and chances were that if given the chance they would join the Reich, regardless of what Italy wanted.
> 
> The result was possibly the closest the world came to ending Hitler before the war started. Mussolini ordered Comando Supremo to deploy troops to the Brenner Pass, and begin raising the additional 28 divisions for war. Its estimated that at the time Hitler pulled out of Austria, the italians had 8 divisions of troops at the Austrian Border, and another 4 positioned behind that, and apparently plans had been drawn up to invade within 4 hours of the order being given to do so.
> 
> This extremely aggressive stance meant that Hitler, who at this point, had nowhere near the means to fight the huge, if poorly equipped Italian army, had to pull out of Austria, and likewise did so. After this set of events, Italian Fascists, along with various democratic groups moved and arrested large numbers of Austrian Nazis and German agents, while restoring the Austrian government to its previous status.
> 
> This meant that the relations between the 2 Fascist regimes were cold, if not outright hostile to each other, until the Italian annexation of Abyssinia, which will be the subject of another article._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mussolini and Hitler, a troubled relationship, Part 1
> 
> 
> When discussing World War 2, there is very little attention given to the relation that the leaders of the Fascist block had, if anything, the usual portrayal is that Mussolini and Hitler were the best of friends, who shared their view on many things. The truth is a bit more complex, and it can be...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum.warthunder.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is forbidden history. Telling of a time when Mussolini wanted to fight Hitler to defend Italy and defend fascist Austria. It is history nearly erased from the internet. The Critical Race Theory of "whitey bad", is that Italy was bad with Mussolini. And that fascism and nazism is the same ideology. Failing to address that Nazis killed Devout Catholic Fascists in Austria. This does not even delve into the history of Italy asking for aid to defeat Hitler from France and UK. That piece of info is nearly banned from the internet by the Entente cia that run the internet search results. I learned that from a book. The war would have been easy with French and UK forces in a 1934 war vs Nazi Germany. Both passed and let Hitler annex this and annex that territory. Letting Putin take over Ukraine, then Baltic, then Finland, then Georgia, then Azerbaijan, then Poland... Putin is the new Hitler and you have to defend Europe with careful thought.
> 
> Though if you want to comprehend the background and backers of Tucker, watch the 1/2 hour video exposing Tucker as a cia deepstate fraud. There to get the public to oppose the EU and support Russian Republicans. Faux News says the pipeline was a false flag done by Biden and Democrats. If that does not stink of lies...
> 
> The Republicans are the party that wanted to shut down the pipeline because EU was set up. The rivals of Trump and Russian Republicans were Iran, EU and China. Russia was a tool to destroy Europe. Republicans did not want Russian cheap gas fueling a vibrant EU economy. European "goodwill" to integrate Russia into the EU economy was a failure because Putin is planning the destruction of Europe, not economic trade with Europe. And Trumper Putin is using the war to harm the EU.
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> Exclusive-- Trump on Nord Stream 2: ‘I Shut It Down,’ Biden ‘Opened It Up’
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> Former GOP President Donald Trump is bashing President Joe Biden for opening up the Nord Stream 2 pipeline for Russians.
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> www.breitbart.com
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> 
> Gales of stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3, 2...


How do you even have time to write out paragaphs of BullS*((*? I can see people wasting a minute for two sentences worth of fiction. But you wrote a chapters worth about figments of your imagination. The assumption you make is that there is some powerful way that CIA can control the entire situation around the world. Yet somehow Iran, N. Korea continue to exist despite being open adversaries.

Another one bites the dust. This is idea of fighting with fear and reprisal has done in all countries: Iraq, Hitler Germany, and Russia is well on its way.

Even the loyal diehards are going to not give their best to their leader when cost of failure is a made up death










Putin's head of Ukraine mobilisation campaign dies in 'suspicious circumstances'


Lt-Col Roman Malyk 'suspicious' death comes after a spate of attacks on mobilisation offices across Russia. His body was discovered near the fence of his home in a village in the Primorsky region




www.mirror.co.uk




Putin's head of Ukraine mobilisation campaign found dead in 'suspicious circumstances'​Lt-Col Roman Malyk 'suspicious' death comes after a spate of attacks on mobilisation offices across Russia. His body was discovered near the fence of his home in a village in the Primorsky region




By
Will StewartRussia Correspondent
Graeme MurrayNews Reporter


The head of Vladimir Putin's disastrous Ukraine mobilisation campaign has been found dead in “suspicious” circumstances.

Military commissar Lt-Col Roman Malyk, 49, a, was discovered near a fence at his home in a village in the Primorsky region of Russia.


Some reports claimed he died from hanging.

Russian police have opened a murder probe but have not ruled out suicide.

His “suspicious” death comes after a spate of attacks on mobilisation offices across Russia.

As many as 70 offices have been hit with Molotov cocktails as anger grows over enlistment.

There is rising fury over mobilisation officials forcibly recruiting men with little or no training in apparent violation of the rules.


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## RoadAmerica

zectech said:


> Tucker Carlson: Company Man
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> Tucker Carlson: Company Man
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> In this video I document the numerous connections Tucker Carlson has to the CIA, an agency which allegedly rejected his application when he applied right out of college. We are supposed to believe tha...
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> odysee.com
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> 
> Delves into the history of Tucker, Tuckers father. Their links to cia connected groups, PNACers, neo-cons, and other deepstaters. The only fair conclusion: Tucker is run by cia assets and is a cia asset. Since that is so, the cia Washington agenda is to destroy Europe. While the neo-lib Democratic Party Beltway State and Defense Departments send Ukraine limited amounts of weapons to drag this war on to have Europe suffer month after month of inflation and economic turmoil. With the goal of political, societal, and economy collapse of the EU. Watch the entire video. The pro-Russia narrative of Tucker is from the Trumper and deepstate cia goal to destroy the EU, since Tucker is a cia asset. Neo-nationalist conservative statists is the cia brand. Putin is a cia brand. Tucker preaches that authoritarian conservative cia statism brand on Faux News. The same authoritiarian cia brand that is promoted in cia coups around the globe, Russia included. Tucker, Russian Republicans and Trump are the cia coup in the US to turn it into a Russian-style autocracy state.
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> The Real Deep State Is Trump
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> How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom
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> newrepublic.com
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> Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède
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> Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède
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> www.theguardian.com
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> 
> 
> These deepstaters would get covertly excited over Ukraine/Germany/EU being nuked, overtly blame Russian Muslims for the nuking or defending Putin with any "excuse" (Americans in, Russians out and Germany down... with nuking Germany off the map, Germany is down for a long while as is the goal of US/UK policy - if protecting Germany from nukes is the policy of the US, then have cold war policy if NATO gets nuked by Russia, have US nuke Russia off the map... except since Tucker/Trump/Pompeo cia are partners with Russia, there is no reason to protect Europe when Europe is a rival of the US). China also wants Europe nuked, to punish whitey for Trump. Putin is begging for excuses to nuke the EU.
> 
> If Trump returns and nukes China. And China is unable to hit the US because of US defenses, China would want to nuke Europeans, to punish NATO, as China is getting nuked. Read the 50 cent Chinese on the forums. They are only able to parrot Beijing Policy. "Punish whitey for Trump. NATO is the enemy of China. Russia destroy Europe in revenge for Trump being white." Ukraine is not NATO, Ukraine wants to be part of the EU, something that supported trade and healthy bilateral relations with China. And China wants Russia to destroy Ukraine and the EU. If that is not a warning that in the event of Trump nuking China and China unable to hit the USA... China would take out revenge and nuke Europe. UK an London would be protected by US nuke shield. Nuke shield would not cover Germany less than 200 km away from UK, because the USA does not want Germany to be safe from nukes from Putin or China. Trump backed Russia and China backed Russia blew up the pipeline for the purpose to destroy the EU economy, particularly Germany. Tucker/Trump/Pompeo cia want the EU in shambles. As does China and Russia.
> 
> Europeans need to learn from Franco. Franco survived for so long by taking the help of the Great Powers. Yet not joining the war of the warmongering UK/US deepstate. Had Franco joined the war, Franco would have shared the fate of Mussolini. Instead Nationalist Spain lived on. And Spain determined her fate. And was not vilified as Germans were. Learn the lessons of Mussolini. Mussolini wanted to knock out Hitler in 1934 and needed France and UK to help defeat Germany. Taking Hitler out before it gets too strong and before Germany was militarily/strategically powerful prevents much loss. Had UK and France gone along with Mussolini to kill Hitler in 1934, there would have been no Second World War, as we know it with total war. Hitler would have been defeated within months, as Germany had not rearmed. So take opportunities to defeat the Hitlers of Europe and not let Putin win. So learn to balance these two lessons. They are seemingly conflict. Peace, yet war. Or Peace, and arm Ukraine to defend Europe. Or better... Peace, and let fully nuclear armed nations arm Ukraine.
> 
> _Hitlers first major diplomatic play was the first attempt to Annex Austria into the newly minted German Reich. Working in close cooperation with Austrian [Nazis], they moved to remove the Austrian [fascist] government in early 34, Arresting or killing notable members of the democratically chosen government, and occupying important buildings and generally preparing to establish a regime not unlike Hitler's with the final goal of Anschluss. While most of Europe did not act. Mussolini was forced to intervene, not because he wanted to, but rather due to political and strategic reasons.
> 
> The strategic reason was that he did not fully trust Hitler, and wanted to keep a bufferzone between him and Germany. The second more important reason was that he knew that the annexation of Austria would serve as a powerful tool in forcing other Germans speakers to join his Reich. Alongside this, Mussolini knew that many people in South Tirol were sympathetic to the new Nazi regime and chances were that if given the chance they would join the Reich, regardless of what Italy wanted.
> 
> The result was possibly the closest the world came to ending Hitler before the war started. Mussolini ordered Comando Supremo to deploy troops to the Brenner Pass, and begin raising the additional 28 divisions for war. Its estimated that at the time Hitler pulled out of Austria, the italians had 8 divisions of troops at the Austrian Border, and another 4 positioned behind that, and apparently plans had been drawn up to invade within 4 hours of the order being given to do so.
> 
> This extremely aggressive stance meant that Hitler, who at this point, had nowhere near the means to fight the huge, if poorly equipped Italian army, had to pull out of Austria, and likewise did so. After this set of events, Italian Fascists, along with various democratic groups moved and arrested large numbers of Austrian Nazis and German agents, while restoring the Austrian government to its previous status.
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> This meant that the relations between the 2 Fascist regimes were cold, if not outright hostile to each other, until the Italian annexation of Abyssinia, which will be the subject of another article._
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> Mussolini and Hitler, a troubled relationship, Part 1
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> When discussing World War 2, there is very little attention given to the relation that the leaders of the Fascist block had, if anything, the usual portrayal is that Mussolini and Hitler were the best of friends, who shared their view on many things. The truth is a bit more complex, and it can be...
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> forum.warthunder.com
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> 
> 
> This is forbidden history. Telling of a time when Mussolini wanted to fight Hitler to defend Italy and defend fascist Austria. It is history nearly erased from the internet. The Critical Race Theory of "whitey bad", is that Italy was bad with Mussolini. And that fascism and nazism is the same ideology. Failing to address that Nazis killed Devout Catholic Fascists in Austria. This does not even delve into the history of Italy asking for aid to defeat Hitler from France and UK. That piece of info is nearly banned from the internet by the Entente cia that run the internet search results. I learned that from a book. The war would have been easy with French and UK forces in a 1934 war vs Nazi Germany. Both passed and let Hitler annex this and annex that territory. Letting Putin take over Ukraine, then Baltic, then Finland, then Georgia, then Azerbaijan, then Poland... Putin is the new Hitler and you have to defend Europe with careful thought.
> 
> Though if you want to comprehend the background and backers of Tucker, watch the 1/2 hour video exposing Tucker as a cia deepstate fraud. There to get the public to oppose the EU and support Russian Republicans. Faux News says the pipeline was a false flag done by Biden and Democrats. If that does not stink of lies...
> 
> The Republicans are the party that wanted to shut down the pipeline because EU was set up. The rivals of Trump and Russian Republicans were Iran, EU and China. Russia was a tool to destroy Europe. Republicans did not want Russian cheap gas fueling a vibrant EU economy. European "goodwill" to integrate Russia into the EU economy was a failure because Putin is planning the destruction of Europe, not economic trade with Europe. And Trumper Putin is using the war to harm the EU.
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> Exclusive-- Trump on Nord Stream 2: ‘I Shut It Down,’ Biden ‘Opened It Up’
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> Former GOP President Donald Trump is bashing President Joe Biden for opening up the Nord Stream 2 pipeline for Russians.
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> www.breitbart.com
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> Gales of stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3, 2...


I see you’re back with more irrelevant bs 
🥱



zectech said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580235007972343822
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577813270483828737
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> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577823772354039808
> The Democrats in the US need a TV Ad called: Putin Manipulation.
> 
> In Europe and America: social, economic and political unrest is being fueled by Putin and Putin is fanning the flames. To have Democrats lose in the US. To have Social Democrats lose in Europe.
> 
> Due to Putins effort, inflation is double digit in much of Europe. The expectation is Putin supporters in Europe would grow with economic and social unrest, a Russian coup.
> 
> Putin is manipulating you, not to help you. To ruin enemies of Russia. To turn the US and Europe into Russian-style autocratic criminal states, owned by cia linked Chabad, cia linked Russian Mafia and other cia linked criminals.
> 
> Most of the entire globe is experiencing inflation. Putin wants to hide this and make it seem your anti-Putin politician is to blame for the inflation. "Your neo-liberal mayor is to blame for inflation", says the Putinite. Their only solution "is for you to vote in Trumpers and Putinites puppets of the deepstate into your mayoral seat."
> 
> The same Russian Republicans that want the EU to crash, cheer for Russia in Ukraine, cheer for Russia defeating the EU... are the Russian Republicans that blame Putins pipeline explosion on Biden. Russian Republicans blame the explosion on the enemy of Russian Republicans and Putin - Biden.
> 
> True statement: "NATO is being attacked economically, socially and politically. Russia wants to destroy NATO Europe. The pipeline was helping to save the NATO economy."
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> Question: "Then who did the attack on the pipeline"
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> Russian Republican Troll: "NATO"
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> Russian Republicans oppose NATO, oppose the Democrats, so they blame Democrats.
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> Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book
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> NATO chief said Europe cannot defend from Russia, Europe needs the US. So the Russian Republicans want to abandon Europe to Russia.
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> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502387779749257216
> Meaning those that support Putin are also Trumpers and Tucker Carlsonites. It is the cia plot destroy rivals, Russian Republicans using puppet Putin.


Give it up, trumps not president

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## Wood




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## zectech

The Russia Republicans. The Republican Agenda is to have total loyalty to Trump. Tucker is Pravda for the Russia Republicans. Pro-Putin is the policy of Republicans. Republicans have been the cia party since before the 1980s. Trump is no different.








Trump and Russia






The Trump sons on Russia and the Trump family over the decades. ^

Their plot is to take down Europe and the Democrats.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579014244154032128
Trump/Putin/cia want to take down the EU with this war.


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## zartosht

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Thanks for informing us that Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan has lost their right to exist as countries due to the coups.



The US launched a coup in Iran much the same way to ukraine. Overthrowing an elected government in favour of a thug puppet regime. 


The only difference is Iranians never Ever bought the narrative. And at the earliest opportunity decapited the imposed regime, and stuck a fist up the zionist/american rear ends since 1979. 

If Iran had become a willing participant of american coups. Became a fascist country ethnically cleansing minorities and made our country a foreign base with the sole purpose of attacking Russia or some orher major power. And that power got pissed off and retaliated. Then yes. That zombie aggressive state would lose its right to survive as far as the targeted country (Russia) is concerned

Ps. I know your a zionist and your schtick is to use walls of nonesense to play wordgames. I have no interest in engaging with such clowns

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## zectech

If there is a German member who can provide documented evidence that Angela Merkel's Party CDU has a German Version of Tucker Carlson and bnd runs that individual to promote Russian Propaganda.

Then we would welcome that information to show the internal politics of Germany. However, there is no Tucker Carlson of the CDU, run by the BND to promote Russian Propaganda.

However there is, as documented, a cia asset on Faux News who is a Republican and promotes Kremlin sh*t on the tv. That individuals name is Tucker Carlson.

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## Paul2

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580916883590549504
> Usual Social Darwinism and white supremacists we already know ....



Tell me where he is wrong at all. He is completely authentic when he says this.

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## _Nabil_

Paul2 said:


> Tell me where he is wrong at all. He is completely *authentic* when he says this.


Yeah, *authentic* racist 🤣

-----------------------------------------------------

*This* ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581414008045047808
*or this ?*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581423171127095296
*While the main issue can be this : *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581422165144076291

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581421313498890240


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## PakFactor

_Nabil_ said:


> Yeah, *authentic* racist 🤣
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> 
> *This* ?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581414008045047808
> *or this ?*
> 
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> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581423171127095296
> *While the main issue can be this : *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581422165144076291
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581421313498890240



1) That video of the European calling themselves privileged isn't wrong. However, compared to the rest of the world, European or, for that matter rest of the world is a garden.

2) Belarus isn't coming, and if by chance it does, it's too late. They should have come since the beginning. They've waited almost two weeks for the Ukrainians to prepare countermeasures.

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## aviator_fan

zartosht said:


> The US launched a coup in Iran much the same way to ukraine. Overthrowing an elected government in favour of a thug puppet regime.
> 
> 
> The only difference is Iranians never Ever bought the narrative. And at the earliest opportunity decapited the imposed regime, and stuck a fist up the zionist/american rear ends since 1979.
> 
> If Iran had become a willing participant of american coups. Became a fascist country ethnically cleansing minorities and made our country a foreign base with the sole purpose of attacking Russia or some orher major power. And that power got pissed off and retaliated. Then yes. That zombie aggressive state would lose its right to survive as far as the targeted country (Russia) is concerned
> 
> Ps. I know your a zionist and your schtick is to use walls of nonesense to play wordgames. I have no interest in engaging with such clowns


You don't have to ethnically cleanse minorities: its violent supression of everybody. Today's Iran in terms of not tolerating dissent is the same as Shah's Iran. Stop deluding yourself and making us believe as if through the revolution Iran has become a much more enlightened place.

As for 2014 protests: any time somebody stands up to a leader, its assumed that the population is dumb and stupid and there must be a foreign hand. Unless you were in Kiev in 2014, you are reading the same conspiracy articles that I can find: that all was really great in the country, and then US engaged in a coup. 

Why is it not possible that Ukrainians did not want the leader's U turn away from Europe and have some brains to express themselves? After all thats how the Shah was overthrown? Or are the bearded Khomenei was also a CIA stooge?

Give the people of countries some credit: they wanted a new leader, they got a leader. And they believe in it. Thats why all able bodied men stayed to fight. They weren't told to , they just wanted to. No mass exodus of men going to other countries.

If you have no interest in engaging in clowns, then start learning about the rest of the world and stop making every post about Iran. Nobody gives a rat's a** on Iran's position. All Iran is good at is making sure that Ghazans on one end and Yemenis on the other are good cannon fodder . That blood is on Iran's hands.


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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> I believe that was a BUK system, decoy or not. This S300 strike looks legit. I realize they didnt have much space setting up the system, but seems really stupid parking right next to one another.
> I think they have a BUK operating at 0.09 left corner of the video.
> They need some old school anti aircraft guns defending against those drones, or maybe call in members of the clay pigeon shooting association to shoot down those slow and low flying drones.


I don't know, as I said, I remember reading a post from the same YouTube handle about S300 and said that was a decoy. I don't remember much on that post but I think that OSINT people from Oynx came out and explain why it was a decoy. 

I could be wrong tho as I did not really digest the post but I am certain that's the same YT Handle because it was quite distinct. 

As for whether or not it is legit, I will give it some time and watch it myself, but probably not today as I am hella busy today. And I most likely would have forgot about all this by the time I had done my own thing....


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## khansaheeb

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-10-15-22/index.html


6 hr 54 min ago
Gunmen kill at least 11 people in attack on Russian military recruits, Russia's state media reports​From CNN's Mariya Knight
Two gunmen opened fire on Russian military recruits at a training ground in Russia’s Belgorod region, killing at least 11 people and wounding another 15, Russia’s state news agency TASS reports.
The attack happened Saturday during a training session at the Western Military District, according to TASS, which cited the Russian Defense Ministry. The gunmen were said to be from former Soviet states. Russian officials have branded the attack an act of terrorism.
“As a result of a terrorist attack at a military training ground in the Belgorod region, 11 people were killed, 15 were injured and are receiving medical assistance,” TASS reported.
“The incident occurred during a shooting training session with volunteers preparing for a special operation. The terrorists attacked the personnel of the unit with small-arms fire.”
According to TASS, two individuals who committed the “terrorist act” were killed in retaliatory fire at the training ground.
The Belgorod region is in western Russia on the border with Ukraine.

7 hr 28 min ago
Zelensky notes eastern regions with the fiercest fighting in evening address​ From CNN's Mariya Knight
Very fierce battles are taking place around the eastern Donetsk region, and the Ukrainian military is holding its position there, President Volodymyr Zelensky said in his nightly address Saturday.
“Active operations continue in various areas of the front. A very difficult situation persists in Donetsk region and Luhansk,” Zelensky said, referring to another eastern region that has been occupied by Russian troops for months. “The most difficult is the Bakhmut direction, as in the previous days. We hold our positions.”
Bakhmut is located in the northern portion of Donetsk region.
*Work still to do on recaptured land: *Zelensky also gave an update on the efforts to reconnect services to regions of Ukraine recently liberated from Russian forces.
He said homes in the northeastern Ukrainian city of Izium, which was under Russian occupation for six months before being liberated in September, are having their supply of natural gas restored.
“The first 500 families of the city already have gas in their homes again,” he said. “Just yesterday, more than 3,000 houses in the Izium, Kupiansk, Chuhuiv and Kharkiv districts of Kharkiv region were connected to the gas supply. Work is ongoing in other directions as well.”





6 hr 42 min ago
“The hell with it … we’ll just keep funding Ukraine govt for free,” Elon Musk tweets​From CNN's Tim Lister
Weeks after SpaceX said the company could not keep funding the Ukrainian military’s use of its satellite services, US billionaire Elon Musk seemed to reverse course on Twitter today — though it wasn’t clear if the issue was actually settled.
“The hell with it … even though Starlink is still losing money & other companies are getting billions of taxpayer $, we’ll just keep funding Ukraine govt for free,” a tweet from Musk’s verified account read Saturday.
*If you haven’t been following this: *Starlink is the name of a satellite system, made by Musk’s SpaceX, which has been a vital source of communication for Ukraine’s military. The company’s internet terminals have allowed troops to stay connected even as cellular phone and internet networks have been destroyed in the war with Russia.
SpaceX has warned the Pentagon it may stop funding the service in Ukraine unless the US military kicks in tens of millions of dollars per month. The company also requested the Pentagon take over funding for Ukraine’s government and military use of Starlink, which SpaceX claims would cost more than $120 million for the rest of the year and could cost close to $400 million for the next 12 months.
A Pentagon spokesperson said Friday it had been in communication with SpaceX over the funding of the Starlink satellite communication product. 
“No good deed goes unpunished,” Musk said in response to a follower who replied to his tweet Saturday. “Even so, we should still do good deeds.”
*Ukrainian officials voice support: *The situation involving Musk’s Starlink was complicated further when he publicly shared a Russia-Ukraine peace proposal this month. He faced withering criticism in Ukraine for the plan because it would see Kyiv surrender Crimea and agree to neutrality status.
However, some Ukrainian officials have since extended an olive branch.
Yegor “George” Dubynskyi, Ukraine’s deputy minister of digital transformation, told CNN Saturday that Starlink is crucial in newly liberated territories so that Ukrainian officials can communicate.
Ukraine continues to talk with donors such as the Polish and US governments on how to continue funding Starlink, Dubynskyi said. He had no immediate response to Musk’s tweet.
_CNN’s Sean Lyngaas contributed to this report._

8 hr 48 min ago
Analysis: The next few weeks of the war in Ukraine are critical. Here’s why​Analysis by CNN's Rob Picheta
The war in Ukraine, which for months appeared to be descending into a slow and painful grind, has erupted once again as winter nears. The conflict is teetering toward an unpredictable new phase.
“This is now the third, fourth, possibly fifth different war that we’ve been observing,” said Keir Giles, a senior consulting fellow at Chatham House’s Russia and Eurasia Programme.
An onslaught of Russian missile attacks this week was followed by steady Ukrainian ground gains and a huge explosion on the Kerch bridge, the only crossing between the annexed Crimean peninsula and Russia. That blast bruised the Russian psyche and handed Ukraine a significant strategic boost.
With the cold months nearing and likely bringing a slowdown in ground combat, experts say the next weeks of the war will be vital.
“What seemed a distant prospect for anything that could be convincingly described as a Ukraine victory is now very much more plausible,” Giles said. “The response from Russia is likely to escalate further.”
*“Playing for the whistle”*: Russia said Thursday its forces would help evacuate residents of occupied Kherson as Ukraine makes more gains in the region.
The successful offensive has shifted the momentum of the war and disproved a suggestion, built up in the West and in Russia last summer, that while Ukraine could stoutly defend territory, it lacked the ability to seize ground.
“The Russians are playing for the whistle – (hoping to) avoid a collapse in their frontline before the winter sets in,” Samir Puri, senior fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies and the author of “Russia’s Road to War with Ukraine,” told CNN.
“If they can get to Christmas with the frontline looking roughly as it is, that’s a huge success for the Russians given how botched this has been since February.”
_You can read Rob Picheta’s complete analysis here._

10 hr 43 min ago
What are the "kamikaze drones" used by Russia in Ukraine?​From CNN's Ivana Kottasová
Ukrainian officials say Russia has been deploying an increasingly familiar weapon in its attacks: “kamikaze drones.”
Most recently, the southern Ukrainian city of Zaporizhzhia was hit with four strikes by kamikaze drones overnight Saturday. Authorities said Moscow has also used them in assaults against Kyiv, Vinnytsia, Odesa and other cities across Ukraine in recent weeks.
Ukrainian officials have pleaded with Western countries to step up their assistance in the face of the new challenge, in addition to developing its own technology to counter the strikes.
Kamikaze drones, or suicide drones, are a type of aerial weapon system. They are known as a “loitering munition” because they are capable of waiting in an area identified as a potential target and only strike once an enemy asset is identified.
The drones are capable of carrying precision-guided missiles and have a payload of approximately 50 kilograms (110 pounds). They are small, portable and can be easily launched — but their main advantage is that they are hard to detect and can be fired from a distance.
The name “kamikaze” refers to the fact the drones are disposable. They are designed to hit behind the enemy lines and are destroyed in the attack – unlike the more traditional, larger and faster military drones that return home after dropping missiles.
*Ties to Iran: *The Ukrainian military and US intelligence say Russia is using Iranian-made attack drones. US officials told CNN in July that Iran had begun showcasing Shahed series drones to Russia the previous month.
US officials later said Russia bought the drones and was training its forces how to use them. According to Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky, Russia has ordered 2,400 Shahed-136 drones from Iran.
_CNN’s Josh Pennington contributed to this report._

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, it didn't help when Russian invade their "Slavic Brother" and failed to go thru with the occupation....
> 
> Almost all those Central Asian Nation are not Slavic, imagine what Putin would do to them poorly??
> 
> 
> It really depends on whether or not US would transfer the TOW missile.
> 
> Bradley without TOW is probably worse than the BMPs. I mean, it's just basically bringing in 8 troops in a sweatbox with a 25mm, If US transfer the TOW missile as well, that will become a different thing.


not about Slavic. Putin cares little about this. He is just greedy. Donbas is the industrial heart of Ukraine and rich in natural resources. As if Russia is not big enough and poor in oil and gas. But the world id not enough, more is always better, he is simply a primitive thief.


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## zartosht

FSB investigation into the ukranian/nato terrorist attack on a civilian bridge has confirmed the explosives came from odessa by the sea. 

This means there is a high chance it was smuggled in by a humanitarian grain ship. I reaallly hope this is not true, because it would just be low on soo many fronts. Hope it was worth it for the ukies/nato

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## Soldier35

Separate Iranian sources report that the Russian army has ordered new Arash-2 kamikaze drones from Iran. This model is more powerful than the Shahed-136 UAV, or as it is called Geran-2 in Russia. There is very little information on the Arash-2 UAV, it is known that it operates at a distance of up to 2000 kilometers and has a homing system. The UAV is a cruise missile and is capable of loitering over a target. Drone "Arash-2" is a new development of the Iranian army, perhaps its early version - "Arash-1" will be delivered to Russia.






Footage of the impact of the Russian kamikaze drone "Lancet" in the S-300 air defense system of the Ukrainian army. Usually S-300 air defense systems are not designed to work on such small targets, it is not even economically profitable, the complex should have been covered by other air defense systems designed to work on small targets, but apparently they were not. The cost of the S-300 air defense system is about $250 million. When attacked by a drone, it was attacked by soldiers with MANPADS, but all the missiles missed.






The Buk-M1 air defense system of the Ukrainian army was hit by a Russian kamikaze drone Lancet in the Zaporozhye region. Judging by the trenches nearby, the Buk-M1 air defense system was placed right on the front line






A series of strikes by a kamikaze Lancet drone in Ukraine. Footage of the use of the modernized loitering ammunition "Lancet" on the armored vehicles of the Ukrainian army. As reported, UAV crews of the Russian Airborne Forces worked in the Nikolaev-Krivoy Rog direction.

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## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> The US launched a coup in Iran much the same way to ukraine. Overthrowing an elected government in favour of a thug puppet regime.
> 
> 
> The only difference is Iranians never Ever bought the narrative. And at the earliest opportunity decapited the imposed regime, and stuck a fist up the zionist/american rear ends since 1979.
> 
> If Iran had become a willing participant of american coups. Became a fascist country ethnically cleansing minorities and made our country a foreign base with the sole purpose of attacking Russia or some orher major power. And that power got pissed off and retaliated. Then yes. That zombie aggressive state would lose its right to survive as far as the targeted country (Russia) is concerned
> 
> Ps. I know your a zionist and your schtick is to use walls of nonesense to play wordgames. I have no interest in engaging with such clowns


The ”coup” was in reality the Shah disposing Mossadeq according to the constitution. I am talking about the ousting of the Shah.
We can view the popularity of the regime on the news where people are killed daily.
Should you not change your flag, since Iran is not a country according to your point of view?


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## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> FSB investigation into the ukranian/nato terrorist attack on a civilian bridge has confirmed the explosives came from odessa by the sea.
> 
> This means there is a high chance it was smuggled in by a humanitarian grain ship. I reaallly hope this is not true, because it would just be low on soo many fronts. Hope it was worth it for the ukies/nato
> 
> View attachment 887043


FSB are told in advance what the conclusion of their investigations should be…

A grain ship from Odessa going to Russia to deliver explosives??
The idea in itself is ridiculous and if it against all common sense is true, point at unprecedented incompetence by Russia.

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## Oldman1

zartosht said:


> FSB investigation into the ukranian/nato terrorist attack on a civilian bridge has confirmed the explosives came from odessa by the sea.
> 
> This means there is a high chance it was smuggled in by a humanitarian grain ship. I reaallly hope this is not true, because it would just be low on soo many fronts. Hope it was worth it for the ukies/nato
> 
> View attachment 887043


A symbolic strike that forces the Russians to have to repair a bridge till next July. And forcing many trucks not able to take the road, and using ferries that can only accommodate a few every few hours. Not to mentioned ferries being delayed by weather. In all its about crippling logistics just like in Kherson and Kharkiv. It is worth it for sure.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Did Putin know the true state of his armed forces before invading Ukraine?


Misha Firer's answer: Try not to choke on your coffee, Westernsky. This true story told by Ilya Barabanov to Michael Naki on his YouTube channel shows the Russian Armed Forces for what it is: a paper tiger. At the beginning of April 2022, Ukrainian army intercepted messages between Russian troop...




qr.ae





*Did Putin know the true state of his armed forces before invading Ukraine?*








Misha Firer


Brutalsky Son of Quora.




www.quora.com






Try not to choke on your coffee, Westernsky. This true story told by Ilya Barabanov to Michael Naki on his YouTube channel shows the Russian Armed Forces for what it is: a paper tiger.

At the beginning of April 2022, Ukrainian army intercepted messages between Russian troops in the north that revealed a peculiar ceremony that had recently taken place in Chernihiv Oblast, then occupied by the Russian Armed Forces. For the good measure, it was recorded by a crew of the military TV channel Star, affiliated with the Ministry of Defence.





A son, the officer of Russian Army, is awarded a medal for personal heroism by his father, the general of Russian Army, in front of TV cameras in Chernihiv Oblast, Ukraine.

Lieutenant colonel Denis Alexandrovich Lapin Jr (left), commander of the 1st Guards Tank Regiment, part of the legendary 1st Guards Taman Motor Rifle Division, stationed in Moscow Oblast, receives a medal for the Siege of Chernihiv from his father, General Colonel Alexander Lapin, commander of the Central Military District, and his commander, too as they’re based in the same military district.

Ironically, on the same day when TV channel Star spoke about General Lapin awarding soldiers and officers medals for the liberation of Chernihiv Oblast, the Russian Army, including his son’s tank regiment, were retreating, or more like, running away as fast as they could abandoning tanks behind from Chernihiv, Kyiv and Sumi Oblasts.

Preceding the medal awarding ceremony, Denis Lapin’s Tank Regiment had been ordered to launch an attack on Kyiv, which he completely failed. Most of the regiment’s tanks were destroyed. Dozens of tank crews died, others were captured.

To this day, May 6th, many soldiers from the 1st Guards Tank Regiment are missing, and relatives do not get any information about their fate neither from Denis Lapin nor from his father.

Against the background of this military catastrophe, Denis Lapin, who’s lost most of the tanks of this elite regiment, receives a medal for personal heroism.

You can watch those tanks in the old footages of the May 9 Victory Day military parades on the Red Square as they participated every year with Denis Lapin in the lead tank sticking out of a tank turret.

Intercepted radio communication of the regiment revealed soldiers disrespecting commanders and complaining about awful supply lines and bad communication system. Up till the last moment, Lapin was telling his subordinates they were on the way to military exercises.

Then he abandoned them without any artillery support and, and a cherry on top…ladies and gentlemen, Denis Lapin, who received a medal from his dad for personal heroism, deserted his troops and never entered the territory of Ukraine.

Denis Lapin has lost so many tanks, destroyed and captured by the Ukrainian army, that it’s likely that 1st Guards Tank Regiment has been completely wiped out, and doesn’t exist anymore.





Denis Lapin lacks any military talents and made his career under his father’s guidance. He was supposed to spend the rest of his service in comfortable Moscow Oblast, in the elite Taman Division, once a year driving a tank across the Red Square and enjoying his massive salary… until Putin decided to go to war with Ukraine.

To add insult to injury, Denis Lapin not only received a medal for losing an elite tank regiment, but was also promoted to the Colonel rank.

Denis and Alexander Lapin still serve in the Russian Army.

Did Vladimir Putin know about the true state of the Russian armed forces? Of course, he did. After all, he ensured that every institution in this country is as corroded with nepotism and corruption as the army.

The truth is, and I might be hard for you accept with your rational Westernsky mind, Putin just didn’t give a shit.

The man is hell bent on destroying Russia probably because he doesn’t like the country nor its people.

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## Oldman1

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Did Putin know the true state of his armed forces before invading Ukraine?
> 
> 
> Misha Firer's answer: Try not to choke on your coffee, Westernsky. This true story told by Ilya Barabanov to Michael Naki on his YouTube channel shows the Russian Armed Forces for what it is: a paper tiger. At the beginning of April 2022, Ukrainian army intercepted messages between Russian troop...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> qr.ae
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Did Putin know the true state of his armed forces before invading Ukraine?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Misha Firer
> 
> 
> Brutalsky Son of Quora.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.quora.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try not to choke on your coffee, Westernsky. This true story told by Ilya Barabanov to Michael Naki on his YouTube channel shows the Russian Armed Forces for what it is: a paper tiger.
> 
> At the beginning of April 2022, Ukrainian army intercepted messages between Russian troops in the north that revealed a peculiar ceremony that had recently taken place in Chernihiv Oblast, then occupied by the Russian Armed Forces. For the good measure, it was recorded by a crew of the military TV channel Star, affiliated with the Ministry of Defence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A son, the officer of Russian Army, is awarded a medal for personal heroism by his father, the general of Russian Army, in front of TV cameras in Chernihiv Oblast, Ukraine.
> 
> Lieutenant colonel Denis Alexandrovich Lapin Jr (left), commander of the 1st Guards Tank Regiment, part of the legendary 1st Guards Taman Motor Rifle Division, stationed in Moscow Oblast, receives a medal for the Siege of Chernihiv from his father, General Colonel Alexander Lapin, commander of the Central Military District, and his commander, too as they’re based in the same military district.
> 
> Ironically, on the same day when TV channel Star spoke about General Lapin awarding soldiers and officers medals for the liberation of Chernihiv Oblast, the Russian Army, including his son’s tank regiment, were retreating, or more like, running away as fast as they could abandoning tanks behind from Chernihiv, Kyiv and Sumi Oblasts.
> 
> Preceding the medal awarding ceremony, Denis Lapin’s Tank Regiment had been ordered to launch an attack on Kyiv, which he completely failed. Most of the regiment’s tanks were destroyed. Dozens of tank crews died, others were captured.
> 
> To this day, May 6th, many soldiers from the 1st Guards Tank Regiment are missing, and relatives do not get any information about their fate neither from Denis Lapin nor from his father.
> 
> Against the background of this military catastrophe, Denis Lapin, who’s lost most of the tanks of this elite regiment, receives a medal for personal heroism.
> 
> You can watch those tanks in the old footages of the May 9 Victory Day military parades on the Red Square as they participated every year with Denis Lapin in the lead tank sticking out of a tank turret.
> 
> Intercepted radio communication of the regiment revealed soldiers disrespecting commanders and complaining about awful supply lines and bad communication system. Up till the last moment, Lapin was telling his subordinates they were on the way to military exercises.
> 
> Then he abandoned them without any artillery support and, and a cherry on top…ladies and gentlemen, Denis Lapin, who received a medal from his dad for personal heroism, deserted his troops and never entered the territory of Ukraine.
> 
> Denis Lapin has lost so many tanks, destroyed and captured by the Ukrainian army, that it’s likely that 1st Guards Tank Regiment has been completely wiped out, and doesn’t exist anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Denis Lapin lacks any military talents and made his career under his father’s guidance. He was supposed to spend the rest of his service in comfortable Moscow Oblast, in the elite Taman Division, once a year driving a tank across the Red Square and enjoying his massive salary… until Putin decided to go to war with Ukraine.
> 
> To add insult to injury, Denis Lapin not only received a medal for losing an elite tank regiment, but was also promoted to the Colonel rank.
> 
> Denis and Alexander Lapin still serve in the Russian Army.
> 
> Did Vladimir Putin know about the true state of the Russian armed forces? Of course, he did. After all, he ensured that every institution in this country is as corroded with nepotism and corruption as the army.
> 
> The truth is, and I might be hard for you accept with your rational Westernsky mind, Putin just didn’t give a shit.
> 
> The man is hell bent on destroying Russia probably because he doesn’t like the country nor its people.


By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey. This is called hobbling the army.-Sun Tzu

@jhungary 

Any chance the Ukrainians can reverse engineer the Shahed 136 they captured mostly intact and return the favor hitting Russian targets from Crimea to actual Russian soil? Maybe even get some help by the U.S. or other countries, build it in Poland by the thousands and transfer it over to Ukraine? Even make some improvements on it.

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## Mista

‘My son has died’: Russia mourns loss of first drafted soldiers in Ukraine


As newly mobilised men return from the front in coffins, critics complain of aggressive recruiting, low morale and poor training• Russia-Ukraine war latest – live blog




www.theguardian.com

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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> https://www.voanews.com/a/us-moves-to-bolster-mobility-of-ukrainian-forces-/6708905.html
> Another component of the new aid package seeks to enhance Ukraine's anti-armor capabilities with 1,000 tube-launched, optically tracked, wireless-guided missiles, known as TOW missiles, as well as 1,000 Javelin missiles and anti-armor rifle rounds.


i say those tows are downgrade over what Ukraine was receiving before , it seems the war is showing its effect on NATO arsenal


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581305824734896128


what for , just take it and use it , why destroy it


Reashot Xigwin said:


> Those things are rusted...


Iranian border guard barracks in Kurdistan region ,used to use those antiaircraft gun and cannons against attacking Kurdish militant , I assure you the result was ugly , you don't want be on receiving end of it even if you hide behind a stone or a mound , you are fucked up


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## TNT

Putin have not read the situation. He should have taken over these areas back in 2014 when he took crimea. You have to be decisive and quick, he instead took crimea and delayed taking the rest. They had 8 years to arm and prepare while the russian army was doing nothing. Big mistake.
The other thing that have disappointed and kind of astonished everyone is the russian air force. Its totally useless and have achieved nothing. Remember the fear of S400 before this war, even Pakistan was worried abt indian S400 deal but now, no one cares, ppl know russian systems and way way overrated.

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## ziaulislam

F-22Raptor said:


> Yep, West Virginia has a GDP per capita of $54K, which would place it in the top 20 nations in the world.


Those who study development don't use per Capital income which can be insanely high if Elon musk decides to move to west Virginia but human development index

Why don't you enlighten us on it

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Think some page ago someone posted this is a decoy from the OSINT guy??


that Buk clearly was a decoy , not even a single explosion after the hit, this two s-300 were legit , well unless they put several hundred kg of explosives under the decoy


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## A.P. Richelieu

TNT said:


> Putin have not read the situation. He should have taken over these areas back in 2014 when he took crimea. You have to be decisive and quick, he instead took crimea and delayed taking the rest. They had 8 years to arm and prepare while the russian army was doing nothing. Big mistake.
> The other thing that have disappointed and kind of astonished everyone is the russian air force. Its totally useless and have achieved nothing. Remember the fear of S400 before this war, even Pakistan was worried abt indian S400 deal but now, no one cares, ppl know russian systems and way way overrated.


I bet that many people are not disappointed with the performance of the Russian Air Force compared with expectations.


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## Dalit

TNT said:


> Putin have not read the situation. He should have taken over these areas back in 2014 when he took crimea. You have to be decisive and quick, he instead took crimea and delayed taking the rest. They had 8 years to arm and prepare while the russian army was doing nothing. Big mistake.
> The other thing that have disappointed and kind of astonished everyone is the russian air force. Its totally useless and have achieved nothing. Remember the fear of S400 before this war, even Pakistan was worried abt indian S400 deal but now, no one cares, ppl know russian systems and way way overrated.



Russia is doing okay under the circumstances. They have captured Ukrainian territory and probably will expand. Ukraine is receiving a lot of support and intel from the Americans and Europeans. They are bound to have some success against the Russians. Russians ars still the favorite.

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## BHAN85

Dalit said:


> Russia is doing okay under the circumstances. They have captured Ukrainian territory and probably will expand. Ukraine is receiving a lot of support and intel from the Americans and Europeans. They are bound to have some success against the Russians. Russians ars still the favorite.


Russia is doing bad.

First thing USA did in Cuba missile crisis was block Cuba.

But Russia let the West enters weapons and everything in Ukraine everytime they want.

You cut Western supply to Kiev, and you dont need to do anything else.

That's all, without Western money, weapons and free things, Kiev will surrender in 2 days.

Just cut Western supply and feed Ukrainian people through Russian border.

But Kremlin beasts prefer the domination through the terror and massive assasination.

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## F-22Raptor

ziaulislam said:


> Those who study development don't use per Capital income which can be insanely high if Elon musk decides to move to west Virginia but human development index
> 
> Why don't you enlighten us on it



West Virginia’s median income level is still higher than Germanys. Your argument simply doesn’t hold weight

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## ahaider97

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581545294826639360
Any thoughts?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581606575059652610

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581589953259405312
Russian S-300s hit by HARM missiles at Belgorod Airport

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581622067031863296


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581589953259405312
> Russian S-300s hit by HARM missiles at Belgorod Airport




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581585125741015041

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581589953259405312
> Russian S-300s hit by HARM missiles at Belgorod Airport


Looks like a SAM system tried to intercept the HARM and missed ...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581422051843194880

Russian losses now exceed 7,100

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine's vast untapped gas reserves lined up to supply energy to Europe


Country in talks with American drilling companies to bring its resources to the market




www.telegraph.co.uk





>> another one of the reasons for the invasion as Ukraine could have become an alternative to Russia for Gas ...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581585226710470656

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581585226710470656



I support both sides; I wish them luck.

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## Viet

zartosht said:


> FSB investigation into the ukranian/nato terrorist attack on a civilian bridge has confirmed the explosives came from odessa by the sea.
> 
> This means there is a high chance it was smuggled in by a humanitarian grain ship. I reaallly hope this is not true, because it would just be low on soo many fronts. Hope it was worth it for the ukies/nato
> 
> View attachment 887043


Civilian bridge according to Fsb?


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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581422051843194880
> 
> Russian losses now exceed 7,100



the fact that the match closely to the figures provided by *Oryx *match so closely the figures collated by the *Ukranian General Staff *- reinforces the notion that they are both very accurate..




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581541096592920579

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## Viet

Blow Up Russian Trains, Liberate The Coast: Ukraine Has A Plan To Win The War​





A Ukrainian 2S7 howitzer.

UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY PHOTO

It’s going to take engineers nine months to finish repairs to the Kerch Bridge after Ukrainian forces blew up the strategic span, connecting the Russian-occupied Crimean Peninsula to Russia proper, on October 7.


According to AFP, the Kremlin ordered repairs to the $4 billion, 11-mile span to wrap up in July 2023. Until then, Russian forces in southern Ukraine will depend on just one overland supply route—a rail line through eastern Ukraine that’s well within range of Ukrainian artillery.


All that is to say, the Russian field armies in and around the port of Kherson on Ukraine’s temporarily occupied Black Sea coast are in trouble. They were struggling with resupply before the Ukrainians blew up the Kerch Bridge, twisting its twin rail lines and dropping one of its two road lanes. Now the struggle will get worse. 


The partial destruction of the Kerch Bridge “presents the Russians with a significant problem,” tweeted Mick Ryan, a retired Australian army general. 


That sets conditions for what some analysts say is Ukraine’s plan to end the eight-month-old war. As Russian forces fray in the south, gaps could form in their defensive lines stretching from just north of Kherson 250 miles west to the terrain between occupied Mariupol and free Zaporizhzhia. 


If Ukrainian brigades can exploit those gaps and liberate the ruins of Mariupol, they will “sever the Russian armed forces in Ukraine into two pieces that cannot mutually reinforce,” according to Mike Martin, a fellow at the Department of War Studies at King’s College in London—and almost entirely isolate the Russians in the south. 

After that, “you’re going to see a general collapse of the [Russian armed forces], a change of power in Moscow and a deal that involves Crimea being handed over,” Martin added. “Or, the Ukrainians will just take it.”


The Russian army traditionally relies on trains to move the bulk of its supplies. That explains why the army never had the big, robust truck units that, say, the U.S. Army takes for granted. The Russians’ truck shortage got a lot worse this spring when the Ukrainians blew up hundreds of them trying to resupply Russian battalions rolling toward Kyiv on a doomed mission to capture the Ukrainian capital. 

The Kremlin’s problem, now that Ukraine has cut the main rail line into Kherson Oblast, is that the only other rail line connecting Russia to a railhead anywhere near Kherson, terminating in occupied Melitopol, lies just a few miles south of the front line near Volnovakha, north of Mariupol. Ukrainian troops could hit the line, and any trains rolling along it, with 120-millimeter mortars, 155-millimeter howitzers and High-Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems. 

Realistically, Russian commanders have few options short of surrender. They can feed small quantities of supplies into Kherson by truck, by boat and by plane—and hope that the garrison in the south can hold out until July, when the Kerch Bridge might fully reopen. 

The problem is that Ukrainian commanders know they’ve got nine months to take advantage of Russia’s logistical problem. Nine months to add a third counteroffensive to the counteroffensivesthey launched in the east and south six weeks ago. That third attack almost certainly will target Mariupol in order to cut in two the Russian army and starve half of it.

With the Russians on the defensive and the Kremlin’s desperate nationwide mobilization mostly feeding hapless old men into a war they’re not equipped to fight, the momentum clearly lies with the Ukrainians. They get to choose when to launch a third counteroffensive. Russian sources already are anticipating the possible attack.

It’s likely only the coming winter can dictate terms. The first few months of Ukraine’s winter are wet and muddy. The last few are cold and icy. The former are hostile to ground combat. The latter, somewhat less so. If Kyiv aims to end the war on its terms before, say, January, it might need to make its move soon.


The Russian army traditionally relies on trains to move the bulk of its supplies. That explains why the army never had the big, robust truck units that, say, the U.S. Army takes for granted. The Russians’ truck shortage got a lot worse this spring when the Ukrainians blew up hundreds of them trying to resupply Russian battalions rolling toward Kyiv on a doomed mission to capture the Ukrainian capital. 

The Kremlin’s problem, now that Ukraine has cut the main rail line into Kherson Oblast, is that the only other rail line connecting Russia to a railhead anywhere near Kherson, terminating in occupied Melitopol, lies just a few miles south of the front line near Volnovakha, north of Mariupol. Ukrainian troops could hit the line, and any trains rolling along it, with 120-millimeter mortars, 155-millimeter howitzers and High-Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems. 

Realistically, Russian commanders have few options short of surrender. They can feed small quantities of supplies into Kherson by truck, by boat and by plane—and hope that the garrison in the south can hold out until July, when the Kerch Bridge might fully reopen. 

The problem is that Ukrainian commanders know they’ve got nine months to take advantage of Russia’s logistical problem. Nine months to add a third counteroffensive to the counteroffensivesthey launched in the east and south six weeks ago. That third attack almost certainly will target Mariupol in order to cut in two the Russian army and starve half of it.

With the Russians on the defensive and the Kremlin’s desperate nationwide mobilization mostly feeding hapless old men into a war they’re not equipped to fight, the momentum clearly lies with the Ukrainians. They get to choose when to launch a third counteroffensive. Russian sources already are anticipating the possible attack.

It’s likely only the coming winter can dictate terms. The first few months of Ukraine’s winter are wet and muddy. The last few are cold and icy. The former are hostile to ground combat. The latter, somewhat less so. If Kyiv aims to end the war on its terms before, say, January, it might need to make its move soon.


Follow me on Twitter. Check out my website or some of my other work here. Send me a secure tip.




David Axe


----------



## Battlion25

Viet said:


> Blow Up Russian Trains, Liberate The Coast: Ukraine Has A Plan To Win The War​
> View attachment 887084
> 
> A Ukrainian 2S7 howitzer.
> 
> UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY PHOTO
> 
> It’s going to take engineers nine months to finish repairs to the Kerch Bridge after Ukrainian forces blew up the strategic span, connecting the Russian-occupied Crimean Peninsula to Russia proper, on October 7.
> 
> 
> According to AFP, the Kremlin ordered repairs to the $4 billion, 11-mile span to wrap up in July 2023. Until then, Russian forces in southern Ukraine will depend on just one overland supply route—a rail line through eastern Ukraine that’s well within range of Ukrainian artillery.
> 
> 
> All that is to say, the Russian field armies in and around the port of Kherson on Ukraine’s temporarily occupied Black Sea coast are in trouble. They were struggling with resupply before the Ukrainians blew up the Kerch Bridge, twisting its twin rail lines and dropping one of its two road lanes. Now the struggle will get worse.
> 
> 
> The partial destruction of the Kerch Bridge “presents the Russians with a significant problem,” tweeted Mick Ryan, a retired Australian army general.
> 
> 
> That sets conditions for what some analysts say is Ukraine’s plan to end the eight-month-old war. As Russian forces fray in the south, gaps could form in their defensive lines stretching from just north of Kherson 250 miles west to the terrain between occupied Mariupol and free Zaporizhzhia.
> 
> 
> If Ukrainian brigades can exploit those gaps and liberate the ruins of Mariupol, they will “sever the Russian armed forces in Ukraine into two pieces that cannot mutually reinforce,” according to Mike Martin, a fellow at the Department of War Studies at King’s College in London—and almost entirely isolate the Russians in the south.
> 
> After that, “you’re going to see a general collapse of the [Russian armed forces], a change of power in Moscow and a deal that involves Crimea being handed over,” Martin added. “Or, the Ukrainians will just take it.”
> 
> 
> The Russian army traditionally relies on trains to move the bulk of its supplies. That explains why the army never had the big, robust truck units that, say, the U.S. Army takes for granted. The Russians’ truck shortage got a lot worse this spring when the Ukrainians blew up hundreds of them trying to resupply Russian battalions rolling toward Kyiv on a doomed mission to capture the Ukrainian capital.
> 
> The Kremlin’s problem, now that Ukraine has cut the main rail line into Kherson Oblast, is that the only other rail line connecting Russia to a railhead anywhere near Kherson, terminating in occupied Melitopol, lies just a few miles south of the front line near Volnovakha, north of Mariupol. Ukrainian troops could hit the line, and any trains rolling along it, with 120-millimeter mortars, 155-millimeter howitzers and High-Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems.
> 
> Realistically, Russian commanders have few options short of surrender. They can feed small quantities of supplies into Kherson by truck, by boat and by plane—and hope that the garrison in the south can hold out until July, when the Kerch Bridge might fully reopen.
> 
> The problem is that Ukrainian commanders know they’ve got nine months to take advantage of Russia’s logistical problem. Nine months to add a third counteroffensive to the counteroffensivesthey launched in the east and south six weeks ago. That third attack almost certainly will target Mariupol in order to cut in two the Russian army and starve half of it.
> 
> With the Russians on the defensive and the Kremlin’s desperate nationwide mobilization mostly feeding hapless old men into a war they’re not equipped to fight, the momentum clearly lies with the Ukrainians. They get to choose when to launch a third counteroffensive. Russian sources already are anticipating the possible attack.
> 
> It’s likely only the coming winter can dictate terms. The first few months of Ukraine’s winter are wet and muddy. The last few are cold and icy. The former are hostile to ground combat. The latter, somewhat less so. If Kyiv aims to end the war on its terms before, say, January, it might need to make its move soon.
> 
> 
> The Russian army traditionally relies on trains to move the bulk of its supplies. That explains why the army never had the big, robust truck units that, say, the U.S. Army takes for granted. The Russians’ truck shortage got a lot worse this spring when the Ukrainians blew up hundreds of them trying to resupply Russian battalions rolling toward Kyiv on a doomed mission to capture the Ukrainian capital.
> 
> The Kremlin’s problem, now that Ukraine has cut the main rail line into Kherson Oblast, is that the only other rail line connecting Russia to a railhead anywhere near Kherson, terminating in occupied Melitopol, lies just a few miles south of the front line near Volnovakha, north of Mariupol. Ukrainian troops could hit the line, and any trains rolling along it, with 120-millimeter mortars, 155-millimeter howitzers and High-Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems.
> 
> Realistically, Russian commanders have few options short of surrender. They can feed small quantities of supplies into Kherson by truck, by boat and by plane—and hope that the garrison in the south can hold out until July, when the Kerch Bridge might fully reopen.
> 
> The problem is that Ukrainian commanders know they’ve got nine months to take advantage of Russia’s logistical problem. Nine months to add a third counteroffensive to the counteroffensivesthey launched in the east and south six weeks ago. That third attack almost certainly will target Mariupol in order to cut in two the Russian army and starve half of it.
> 
> With the Russians on the defensive and the Kremlin’s desperate nationwide mobilization mostly feeding hapless old men into a war they’re not equipped to fight, the momentum clearly lies with the Ukrainians. They get to choose when to launch a third counteroffensive. Russian sources already are anticipating the possible attack.
> 
> It’s likely only the coming winter can dictate terms. The first few months of Ukraine’s winter are wet and muddy. The last few are cold and icy. The former are hostile to ground combat. The latter, somewhat less so. If Kyiv aims to end the war on its terms before, say, January, it might need to make its move soon.
> 
> 
> Follow me on Twitter. Check out my website or some of my other work here. Send me a secure tip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Axe



This will be a short lived plan as Russia is taking the war very serious now with massive mobilizations. Russia will capture Odessa by this summer

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today's update across the battlefield - *16-10-2022*

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## Viet

Battlion25 said:


> This will be a short lived plan as Russia is taking the war very serious now with massive mobilizations. Russia will capture Odessa by this summer


That’s fantasy. How Russia wants to achieve that? More terror attacks on Ukraine civil infra? That won’t change anything. If Russia best troops and best weapons failed why young untrained men and old rifles will achieve better result? The 300,000 russians may survive a week or two. In Stalingrad battle russian soldiers hardly survived 24h.

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## Battlion25

Viet said:


> That’s fantasy. How Russia wants to achieve that? More terror attacks on Ukraine civil infra? That won’t change anything. If Russia best troops and best weapons failed why young untrained men and old rifles will achieve better result? The 300,000 russians may survive a week or two. In Stalingrad battle russian soldiers hardly survived 24h.



Russia tends to get stronger as the battle rages on.. I believe Russia will emerge 100 times stronger and battle hardened from this..

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## MeFishToo

Battlion25 said:


> Russia tends to get stronger as the battle rages on.. I believe Russia will emerge 100 times stronger and battle hardened from this..


I wish people would stop comparing Russia today with Sovjet WW2 achievements. Russia is not going to field millions into some massive onslaught in Ukraine. They will at best ophold the frontlines as they are right now, using those mobilzed men in defensive positions. It remains to be seen how long theyre going to accept being targets on ukrainian soil, defending the palaces of Putin and his croonies.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> that Buk clearly was a decoy , not even a single explosion after the hit, this two s-300 were legit , well unless they put several hundred kg of explosives under the decoy


Again, as I said, I saw a post talking about how Russia strike a S-300 is a decoy, it may or may not be this, because I just glance at the post and moved on. However, I distintively remember the same YT handle. 

Now I have NOT seen the video in question, so I cannot tell you about my opinion on whether or not that is legit or not.



Viet said:


> not about Slavic. Putin cares little about this. He is just greedy. Donbas is the industrial heart of Ukraine and rich in natural resources. As if Russia is not big enough and poor in oil and gas. But the world id not enough, more is always better, he is simply a primitive thief.


Well, he has his ambition, and in this case, it does not jive with Ukraine. 

The problem is, country around Russia would be alerted for 2 reasons.

1.) If they can do it to Ukraine, they can do it to you.
2.) Russia perform so badly in Ukraine, they will need to look for another country for protection.



Oldman1 said:


> By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey. This is called hobbling the army.-Sun Tzu
> 
> @jhungary
> 
> Any chance the Ukrainians can reverse engineer the Shahed 136 they captured mostly intact and return the favor hitting Russian targets from Crimea to actual Russian soil? Maybe even get some help by the U.S. or other countries, build it in Poland by the thousands and transfer it over to Ukraine? Even make some improvements on it.


I would not reverse engineer Shahed 136, if I do need that capability, I will just probably send them Tomahawk missile. 

On the other handm Shahed 136 is really simple, basically it's a RC Plane loaded with explosive pre-program to fly and dive into their target, I don't think you need much to reverse engineer those drone.


----------



## Viet

Battlion25 said:


> Russia tends to get stronger as the battle rages on.. I believe Russia will emerge 100 times stronger and battle hardened from this..


Yes ok magic can happen, Putin receives the victory from a pixie. Man, wake up, unless the war stops immediately Russia gets poorer and weaker with every passing day. Russia is pariah, worse than North Korea more sanctioned than all other combined.

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## RoadAmerica

Battlion25 said:


> Russia tends to get stronger as the battle rages on.. I believe Russia will emerge 100 times stronger and battle hardened from this..


Based on what, wishful thinking? 
You’re just being unrealistic


----------



## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581653691529973760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581584283474358276

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581676468504887297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581678205378785281

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## BHAN85

Chinese nationals in Ukraine sign up for evacuation after call from FM - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn





Putler must be planning something horrific.

And Beijing knows it.


----------



## Ali_Baba

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581678205378785281



Russia had the element of suprise in its last attempt to take the Kyiv capital as the Ukranian goverment did not believe a war was going to take place and therefore did not prepare for it and actively told its citizens to not prepare.

They are very very prepared now - there are more Ukranian soliders now than ever, and Russian's have lost their best equipment and soldiers.

An attack on Kyiv now is a suicide run - pure and simple. Given the poor strategic planning of the RuAF, it would not suprise me if they think it is somehow more "achieveable now" but it wont be.

If Belarus attempts to enter the war now or its armed forces get actively involved against Ukraine - it will be the end of the Lukashenko goverment - no way he can survive. He wont be able to control or supress his own population if Belarus gets involved in a war..

The equipment is being marked with those symbols not because Belarus is going to get involved in a war, they are being marked because they are being transferred to the Russian Army who will use them !!!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581665012086898689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581675526514565121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581672909000495104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581641742537068545

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581680320088530944

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581590957501612032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581590975293853696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581532924058382337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581683886052237312

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## _Nabil_

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia had the element of suprise in its last attempt to take the Kyiv capital as the Ukranian goverment did not believe a war was going to take place and therefore did not prepare for it and actively told its citizens to not prepare.
> 
> They are very very prepared now - there are more Ukranian soliders now than ever, and Russian's have lost their best equipment and soldiers.
> 
> An attack on Kyiv now is a suicide run - pure and simple. Given the poor strategic planning of the RuAF, it would not suprise me if they think it is somehow more "achieveable now" but it wont be.
> 
> If Belarus attempts to enter the war now or its armed forces get actively involved against Ukraine - it will be the end of the Lukashenko goverment - no way he can survive. He wont be able to control or supress his own population if Belarus gets involved in a war..
> 
> The equipment is being marked with those symbols not because Belarus is going to get involved in a war, they are being marked because they are being transferred to the Russian Army who will use them !!!


Never said Belarus army will be directly involved in the war.

Probably Russia will use their lands to attack from north if pressure in the south persist.

The objective won't be attacking to hold territory, just to divide the Ukrainian army not to join the south front.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581590957501612032
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581590975293853696
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581532924058382337
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581683886052237312


Solar Electric generators, yes. The ones with Diesel aren't forth it.

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581680320088530944



The vests obviously did not help the previous owners - they wont help the current ones either!

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## zectech

Was waiting for this to be confirmed by the British Press.

Russian troops kill Ukrainian musician for refusing role in Kherson concert​International condemnation swift after conductor Yuriy Kerpatenko shot dead in his home









Russian troops kill Ukrainian musician for refusing role in Kherson concert


International condemnation swift after conductor Yuriy Kerpatenko shot dead in his home




www.theguardian.com

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## The SC




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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581681497131847680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581714469490524161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581715286914236416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581582877825044480

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## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581721987097190401
Persian music plus some creativity

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## _Nabil_

zectech said:


> Was waiting for this to be confirmed by the British Press.
> 
> Russian troops kill Ukrainian musician for refusing role in Kherson concert​International condemnation swift after conductor Yuriy Kerpatenko shot dead in his home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops kill Ukrainian musician for refusing role in Kherson concert
> 
> 
> International condemnation swift after conductor Yuriy Kerpatenko shot dead in his home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


Tweeter full of this info for 2 days now

I will believe it just like this old one : 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581535908620181504

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## Shawnee

The air defense necessary to counter these drones should be sent to Ukraine ASAP.
Anybody who talks down arming Ukrainians from Musk to others should be isolated and shunned.

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## zectech

A Putin defeat in Ukraine would demoralize terrorist supporters of Putin around the globe:

China
Iran
international terrorists
Tankies
Anti-Imperialist Camp
fascists
libertarians
conspiracy theorists
nazis
gullible leftists
MAGA

Defeat Putin and Trump and the gullible enemies of the US deepstate would be soundly defeated. In a rout. Yet this is not the Washington agenda to soundly defeat Russia in Ukraine with sending much more in heavily weaponry.

Why is Washington not finishing off Russia in Ukraine by sending enough arms supplies for a quick and decisive victory. Putinites in the West are bitcoiners. The plan is to use Putin to collapse the global currencies, the euro, the Pakistani rupee, and so on... and collapse nation economies for a new Bretton Wood System of Bitcoin demanded by the masses of Trumpers and Putinites and agreed to by the Oligarch and Plutocrats running capitals in the West. If you thought making money in a debt based money supply (where money is invented in every loan) was difficult, wait for a bitcoin global currency. Paper money with debt money is easy money with low interest rates. Bitcoin is far more deflationary than gold, extremely scarce, rare and would make the poor desperate for the tinniest fraction of a bitcoin to pay for some slices of bread.

Look at this chart. A gold coinage system (pre-1933) is moderately deflationary, yet there is enough growth in gold coinage to supply growth for the poor. Gold coins were used from the 1800s, banned around 1933 by FDR. Paper replaced gold and silver coinage stayed. Without deflationary gold coins; and with paper money, the economy grew in the 50s and 60s. Silver coinage ended in 1964/5. And the gold window closed in the first half of 1970s. After that debt dollars that replaced the last vestiges of gold and silver money fueled growing economies. There was no need to mine new gold and silver to add to the monetary supply. An era of easy money from bank loans is the era of today. Bitcoin is far more deflationary and rarer than gold. During the gold coin era, the Industrialists and Capitalists were the economy. They had the gold. In the bitcoin economy, those owning enough bitcoin would own the globe.







Poorer nations are going to have to sell their countries for sale: land, mining, and so on to get some bitcoin. The poor nations are going to be desperate for bitcoin. Bitcoin trillionaires would be able to buy whole nations as own fief. In 1900, the British wanted to own the globe, bitcoin is precisely that, the Anglos owning the globe of slaves who are direly poor.

I am not advising you to buy crypto, I personally hate the stuff. I am simply saying the agenda. If the national currencies collapse, they must be replaced with new paper money or silver/gold coinage. Crypto is the distraction from silver and gold. National banks hold gold reserves to have gold be the default money if the paper currencies fail. Since gold was money for thousands of years. Gold was the default money until crypto was promoted by Trumpers and Putinites to have bitcoin replace the national currencies. If you want Qanon Trumper Putinites to own the globe, events are in place for that plan. If you don't, then support your national policy of gold reserves, gold and silver as money.


----------



## Shawnee

This brave pilot had the gut to fight against Shahed drones to the last piece. He ejected but the fighter was lost.

Kudos to these brave pilots who can hold the line until adequate western AD arrives.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581587254190911488
Police MMA fighting in Germany..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581564693084135424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581690787078995968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581666368822599682


----------



## mike2000 is back

Paul2 said:


> have no contest on Putin being firmly in the Western camp. Up until 2022, he was just a plain bad boy in the group, rather than a pariah. Remember, he had a G8 seat until Crimea.
> 
> Now compare, Xi has just done Xinjiang, and got so much flak just for that, but Putin did Chechnya, thousands of assassinations, rouge states, coups abroad, and only got hugs, and kisses from the West.
> 
> China was indeed more sanctioned as a country than Russia up until 2022. This is Xi's biggest problem with Putin allegedly: he says how anti-West he is, and then runs to get all the goodies from the West


I agree. Its actually weird that Western powers treated Russia more benovently than China despite Russia being far more belligerent and aggressive than China. I always wondered why. Maybe because China is a far away Adian country while Russia is still part of/very closed to Europe and emerged as one of the main suppliers of European energy/gas so European countries didnt want to get on their bad side.

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## MeFishToo

_Nabil_ said:


> Tweeter full of this info for 2 days now
> 
> I will believe it just like this old one :
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581535908620181504


Its a report from a demonstration being used by the russian propaganda machine. Some times I just dont know if people dont care about the truth at all. It would take you less than 2 minuts using google to find out this is russian generated fake news.

Climate protest Austria








Schock-Protest: 49 Aktivisten im Leichensack


Mit Freitag ist Österreich seit 400 Tagen ohne Treibhausgas-Reduktionsziele.




www.oe24.at

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581724850397204480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581721575597883392

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## _Nabil_

zectech said:


> Was waiting for this to be confirmed by the British Press.
> 
> Russian troops kill Ukrainian musician for refusing role in Kherson concert​International condemnation swift after conductor Yuriy Kerpatenko shot dead in his home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops kill Ukrainian musician for refusing role in Kherson concert
> 
> 
> International condemnation swift after conductor Yuriy Kerpatenko shot dead in his home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


Was this one also confirmed by British press ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580045949879341056

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581743796592660481
Tor air defense destroyed by a HARM missile

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## MeFishToo

_Nabil_ said:


> Was this one also confirmed by British press ?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580045949879341056


You didnt care much to respond to your latest russian disinformation reference








Schock-Protest: 49 Aktivisten im Leichensack


Mit Freitag ist Österreich seit 400 Tagen ohne Treibhausgas-Reduktionsziele.




www.oe24.at




Thats how disinformation works. Just flood the internet with made up stories and some of them may end up being considered true..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581733028870488064

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## zartosht

Rumours of Iranian short range missiles entering the war soon. Ukies better pray its fake news cause if they dont like the shaheds, they are reeally reeeeallllly gonna hate fateh

Depending on the model. Its a large 100-150kg warhead coming at you at mach 4+. Just look at craters on the american base to see the sheer power of them. 

Best of all, Iran has thousands of them and can mass produce them easily and cheaply. 

No wonder all Russian allies are telling their citizens to leave. I see alot of painfor the ukies.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581765458365071361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581411347979378688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581743286737256449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581738715348885505

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## ziaulislam

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581765458365071361
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581411347979378688
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581743286737256449
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581738715348885505


It's obvious

Russia has unlimited money
And unlimited man power as compared to Ukraine

Biden will loose his presidency

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## sammuel

zartosht said:


> Rumours of Iranian short range missiles entering the war soon. Ukies better pray its fake news cause if they dont like the shaheds, they are reeally reeeeallllly gonna hate fateh
> 
> Depending on the model. Its a large 100-150kg warhead coming at you at mach 4+. Just look at craters on the american base to see the sheer power of them.
> 
> Best of all, Iran has thousands of them and can mass produce them easily and cheaply.
> 
> No wonder all Russian allies are telling their citizens to leave. I see alot of painfor the ukies.



Iran denies supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine​
The Iranian government said its Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian emphasized in the call “once again” that Tehran “has not and will not” provide any weapon to be used in the Ukraine war.

“We believe that the arming of each side of the crisis will prolong the war, so we have not considered and do not consider war to be the right way either in Ukraine, Afghanistan, Syria or Yemen,” Amir-Abdollahian said, according to an Iranian readout of the call.









Iran denies supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine | CNN


Iran has denied supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine, saying it "has not and will not" do so.




edition.cnn.com

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## jhungary

sammuel said:


> Iran denies supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine​
> The Iranian government said its Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian emphasized in the call “once again” that Tehran “has not and will not” provide any weapon to be used in the Ukraine war.
> 
> “We believe that the arming of each side of the crisis will prolong the war, so we have not considered and do not consider war to be the right way either in Ukraine, Afghanistan, Syria or Yemen,” Amir-Abdollahian said, according to an Iranian readout of the call.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran denies supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine | CNN
> 
> 
> Iran has denied supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine, saying it "has not and will not" do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com


This would probably unlock Ukraine own request for US or Western made Cruise Missile. The West has already fast-tracking AA system that was pussyfooted since May, if Iran really do supply those missiles to Russia, US and NATO may supply ATACMS or even Tomahawk missile in good quantity to Ukraine to target those launch site. 

Ukraine has been wanting to get them since March, that would be a bad move for Russia.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581781189211234306

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581780628248596483

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581770179234910208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581767283478700032

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581615127500988417

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581764695119171584
Mobilization going great it seems


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581611523138408449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581757207024017408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581752417980645377


----------



## Paul2

mike2000 is back said:


> I agree. Its actually weird that Western powers treated Russia more benovently than China despite Russia being far more belligerent and aggressive than China. I always wondered why. Maybe because China is a far away Adian country while Russia is still part of/very closed to Europe and emerged as one of the main suppliers of European energy/gas so European countries didnt want to get on their bad side.



It's Russians totally exploiting Western misplaced wishful thinking.

Putin & Co. were very deliberate in molding themselves to look like members of the club, and telling others exactly what others wanted to hear.

Take a note, Russians probably take an absolute record for the amount of UN hours being used among countries, and they stayed in the ECHR, OSCE, PACE pretty much until they were kicked out by force.

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## beast89

zartosht said:


> Rumours of Iranian short range missiles entering the war soon. Ukies better pray its fake news cause if they dont like the shaheds, they are reeally reeeeallllly gonna hate fateh
> 
> Depending on the model. Its a large 100-150kg warhead coming at you at mach 4+. Just look at craters on the american base to see the sheer power of them.
> 
> Best of all, Iran has thousands of them and can mass produce them easily and cheaply.
> 
> No wonder all Russian allies are telling their citizens to leave. I see alot of painfor the ukies.


Iran making money whilst Elon Musk losing money and when he questioned it everyone got the pitchforks out.

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## jhungary

beast89 said:


> Iran making money whilst Elon Musk losing money and when he questioned it everyone got the pitchforks out.


I don't know what Iran is making, but I am quite certain it will not be money, nor it would be oil and gas either. 

Most likely some defence article, but most definitely not money......


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## Song Hong

Ukraine has lost the war. Fate of Ukraine will be partition and major powers are preparing for it. I estimate Ukraine being a 40 million nation, loss 10 million as per today as refuges. Loss to Europe is about 7.5 millions. I estimate at 2.5 millions loss to Russia are not registered as refuges but as legal residence,

The profile of refuges bode disaster for Ukraine. 90% are young women and children. That means Ukraine man has no one to fk now.

And unlike Islam refuges, EU see Ukraine refuges as jackpot strike (a bunch of young women and children) and open a fast track for their naturalization. 

Eventually their husbands and boyfriend will follow, now that their woman got Switzerland or Norway citizenship. 10 more millions most vital and smart people will migrate.

Ukraine is doom.


















Situation Ukraine Refugee Situation







data.unhcr.org

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 16​Oct 16, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Special Edition on Key Terrain in the Russian Invasion of Ukraine
Frederick W. Kagan
October 16, 4:45pm ET *​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
This campaign assessment special edition focuses on the specific parts of Ukrainian territory currently under Russian occupation that are important for the long-term viability of an independent Ukraine. Ukrainian forces are currently conducting a counteroffensive push in Kherson Oblast as of October 16. We will update our maps after information about the new front lines unambiguously enters the open-source environment.
Ukraine must regain certain specific areas currently under Russian occupation to ensure its long-term security and economic viability. *Ukraine’s ability to defend itself against a future Russian attack requires liberating most of Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts. Ukraine’s economic health requires liberating the rest of Zaporhizia Oblast and much of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, including at least some territory Russia seized in 2014. Ukraine’s security would be materially enhanced by liberating Crimea, which would also benefit NATO’s ability to secure its southeastern flank.
*Ukraine has every right to fight to liberate all the territory Russia has illegally seized, particularly in light of the continued atrocities and ethnic cleansing Russia is perpetrating in the areas it occupies. *Kyiv’s insistence on regaining control of Ukrainian territory to the internationally-recognized borders is not an absolutist or extremist demand—it is the normal position of a state defending itself against an unprovoked attack as part of a war of conquest. It is also the default position of the international community under international law, as it should be. Nothing in the following discussion should be construed as supporting any attempt to encourage, let alone coerce, Ukraine to abandon either its claims or its efforts to free all its land and people.
*However, Ukraine also requires the liberation of the areas mentioned above for purely strategic military and economic reasons. *ISW continues to assess that Putin’s intentions toward Ukraine are unlikely to change whether or not a ceasefire or some other settlement occurs. The Kremlin would use any suspension of hostilities to consolidate its gains and freeze the frontline in the best configuration Putin can get to prepare for future coercion and aggression against Ukraine. Those seeking enduring peace in Ukraine must resist the temptation to freeze the lines of combat short of Ukraine’s international borders in ways that set conditions for renewed conflict on Russia’s terms. The purpose of this brief essay is to consider why specific parts of Ukrainian territory still under Russian occupation are so important for the long-term viability of an independent Ukraine that is not a financial ward of the international community and can effectively defend itself against a renewed Russian invasion.
The Dnipro River is a formidable obstacle for its entire course in Ukraine. Any military would struggle to cross it in the face of prepared defenders. The current Russian lodgment on the west bank in Kherson Oblast is therefore a vital piece of terrain. If a ceasefire or any sort of agreement suspends fighting with the Russians still in possession of that lodgment, the prospects for a renewed Russian offensive in southern Ukraine would be vastly improved. If Ukraine regains control of the entire west bank of the river, on the other hand, the Russians would likely find ground attacks against southwestern Ukraine extraordinarily difficult. The long-term defensibility of Mykolayiv, Odesa, and the entire Ukrainian Black Sea coast thus rests in no small part on the liberation of western Kherson.
Parts of Kherson Oblast on the east bank of the Dnipro are also strategically critical, however. The oblast follows the line of the river to its mouth and then juts out into the Black Sea, coming to within about 40 miles of Odesa. The tip of the Kinburn Spit, the northwesternmost point of this part of Kherson Oblast, is less than 2.5 miles from the city of Ochakiv on the west bank of the Dnipro. Russian military positions in these areas allow Russian forces to bring artillery, drone, and missile fire against much of the Ukrainian Black Sea coast from many short-range systems without having to use expensive longer-range capabilities that will always be in shorter supply. These short distances also make the prospect of amphibious operations far more plausible and easier to support by fire than if the Russians had to conduct them from bases in Crimea. *Ukraine’s hold on its entire western Black Sea coast will remain tenuous as long as Russia holds territory in southwestern Kherson much further north than the 2014 lines.
Tracing defensible lines requires constantly referring to the roughly 25-kilometer maximum effective range of the 152mm artillery system. *All modern armies have ground-based systems with much longer ranges, to be sure. But 152mm guns are relatively easy and inexpensive to mass produce, as are the rounds they fire. They are also effectively impossible to defend against when used at scale. Systems exist that can shoot down individual artillery rounds (as well as missiles and drones), but not that can shoot down thousands of them at a time. The Russians showed how effective massed bombardments by such weapons can be in their seizures of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, where they pounded Ukrainian troops with artillery and enabled relatively weak Russian ground forces to advance. Planners must assume that Ukrainian positions within 25 kilometers of Russian lines may be subjected to massive artillery barrages from the outset of a renewal of hostilities.
*Sound military doctrine also teaches that one does not attempt to defend a position by standing on it—reliable defenses must be established well forward of the points or lines that must be held. *The Dnipro River should not be Ukraine’s first line of defense, but rather its last. Contested river crossings are very difficult but can be made easier if the attacker can make all preparations right at the river, including establishing protected artillery positions, pre-positioning bridging equipment, amassing necessary supplies, and generally laying in all the infrastructure needed to get across a wide river while the defenders fight back. The river is most reliable as a defense if the Russians must first advance to it and then prepare to cross it while Ukrainian defenders disrupt their efforts.
Ukraine must therefore be able to establish and hold positions on the eastern bank of the river. Those positions cannot be in a narrow strip along the river, however. They must be far enough away from the river that a concerted Russian attack cannot easily throw them back against the river itself—a potentially disastrous position for the defender. They must also be far enough east to keep the Russians out of artillery range (about 25 kilometers) of the west bank to prevent the Russians from bombarding Ukrainian defenders on that bank from the outset of a renewed invasion. The 2014 line of contact north of Crimea was close to the limit of how far Russian forces can be allowed to hold ground in the south without beginning to put the Ukrainian defense of the Dnipro and what lies behind it at risk. The distance from the northwesternmost part of those lines to the river at closest approach is about 70 kilometers, which is far enough to allow Ukraine to establish front-line defenses at the line of contact and then a main defensive area out of tube artillery (152mm) range, from which Ukrainian defenders could retreat some distance if necessary while still keeping the Russians out of artillery range of the river and avoiding finding themselves pressed right up against the river.
*Consideration of key terrain in eastern Kherson and western Zaporizhia Oblasts must integrate security and economic concerns because of the location of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) at Enerhodar. *The plant provided a significant proportion of Ukraine’s electricity before the 2022 invasion, and its loss would require considerable investment to replace the generating capacity and possibly redesign elements of Ukraine’s electrical grid. The liberation of Enerhodar in a way that allows the plant to come back online is therefore central to containing the costs in time and money of the restoration of Ukraine’s economy, which is in turn central to allowing Ukraine to avoid becoming an expensive ward of the international community.
Russia’s demonstrated irresponsibility toward nuclear facilities in Ukraine also makes restoring the ZNPP to Ukrainian control essential from a security perspective. Russian forces damaged the inactive Chernobyl facilities, kicking up radioactive dust and irradiating themselves in the process. Russian false-flag operations and the use of the ZNPP grounds as a base for conventional military operations show a similarly cavalier attitude toward the dangers of bringing war to a massive nuclear power plant. Allowing Moscow to retain control of the ZNPP puts Ukraine and all Black Sea states at permanent risk of the downstream consequences of Russia’s willingness to play with nuclear fire. The Russians must therefore also be kept out of artillery range of Enerhodar. Taking an approach to calculating required positions similar to the one used above would bring the line required to allow Ukrainian forces to reliably defend the ZNPP about 50 kilometers south of Enerhodar in principle. That line would be about 40 kilometers northwest of Melitopol, the next major geographical feature to consider.
Melitopol is a critical junction of roads that run from the Dnipro around the Nova Kakhovka Dam to the Sea of Azov coast and ultimately Mariupol on the one hand and that run from Crimea north to the city of Zaporizhia on the other. If the Russians retain control of Melitopol and the roads running south and east of it, they can and likely will turn it into a major militarized base from which to launch mechanized attacks across the largely flat steppe land to its north and west. Such a base, which could come to be similar to Belgorod, Russia, in the extent of military facilities and capabilities it houses, would be a permanent threat to the ZNPP, Ukrainian positions on the east bank of the Dnipro River, and the major cities of Zaporizhia and Dnipropetrovsk as well. If Ukraine regains control of Melitopol, on the other hand, the Russians would be confined to Crimea and the narrow and vulnerable road and rail connections across the Perekop Isthmus that separates Crimea from the mainland. Defense against such an attack is far easier than would be a defense against an attack that could use Melitopol as a well-stocked and fully prepared forward base.
Further east the weight of consideration becomes more economic. The Donbas—the area of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts divided by the line of control since 2014—had been a single integrated economic unit for centuries. Its mineral deposits were extracted and sent by rail to the port of Mariupol, on the one hand, and to Ukrainian industries in the west on the other. The 2014 Russian seizure of large parts of Donetsk Oblast disrupted this economic activity to Ukraine’s detriment. Permanently removing the entire Donbas would do far more serious economic damage to Ukraine. The reconstruction of a viable Ukrainian economy that does not require large amounts of long-term international financial assistance requires restoring the Donbas economic region to Kyiv’s control.
The military requirement for that restoration includes the Ukrainian liberation of Mariupol and the road and rail networks north via Volnovakha toward Donetsk City and to the west toward Melitopol and Zaporizhia City. Establishing secure Ukrainian control over Mariupol requires liberating at least some of the land the Russians had seized in 2014. The line of control resulting from that invasion was too close to the city to allow its defenders to avoid encirclement in the face of determined attacks. The same calculations used above regarding 152mm artillery ranges would argue that Ukraine must actually recapture all its land to the internationally recognized border, in fact.
Similar economic arguments hold for the historically industrial cities of Donetsk, Severodonetsk, and Luhansk. In the remaining areas of occupied northeastern Ukraine, the balance of concern shifts primarily to the agricultural sector. Grain plays such a critical part in Ukraine’s economy that one could straightforwardly calculate the cost of each lost hectare and consider the requirements to offset that loss over the long term as part of the price of ceding any of this land to Russia.
Northeastern Ukraine does contain some strategically important areas, however. The towns of Svatove, Starobilsk, and Bilovodsk sit on major road junctions, control of which determines in part which bases in Russia proper the Russians can use to support future attacks in Ukraine directly. Russia has major mechanized bases at Valuiki and Boguchar to the northwest and northeast of Luhansk Oblast. Russian forces have been flowing from their bases around Belgorod via Valuiki into northern Luhansk Oblast on the road that runs to Starobilsk and thence westward via Svatove to Kharkiv Oblast. The railway that runs from just north of Luhansk via Starobilsk to the Russian border is particularly important because Russian forces are heavily dependent on rail to move equipment and supplies. The base at Boguchar can also flow forces into Ukraine along a road that runs through Bilovodsk, however. Allowing Russia to retain control of these key junctions and the road and rail networks on which they sit would give Moscow a significant advantage in building up for a renewed invasion from the northeast.
*The Crimean Peninsula, finally, is strategically important for NATO as well as Ukraine. *Russian possession of the peninsula allows Russia to base anti-air and anti-shipping missiles 325 kilometers further west than it could using only the territory it legally controls. It lets Russia position aircraft in Sevastopol, about 300 kilometers further west than airbases on the territory of the Russian Federation. These differences matter greatly to the scale and scope of the air and missile threat Russia can pose to NATO’s southeastern flank as well as to Russia’s ability to prepare and support future invasions of Ukraine. Of all the Ukrainian lands NATO should desire Ukraine to regain for NATO’s own interests, Crimea should be at the top of the list.
*Principled legal, moral, and ethical considerations require supporting Ukraine’s efforts to regain its lost lands and people and should not be dismissed. The aim of this essay has been to show that purely military realities and strategic considerations lead to the same conclusion. If Ukraine is to emerge from this war able to defend itself against a future Russian attack and with a viable economy that does not rely on long-term international financial support, it must liberate almost all its territory.*



*Key inflections in ongoing military operations on October 16:*

*Several Russian sources reported renewed Ukrainian assaults in the Kherson direction and Ukrainian sources reported higher-than-average numbers of daily shelling and missile strikes, but Ukrainian forces are maintaining operational silence about any operations.[1]*
*Ukrainian military officials stated on October 16 that Russian forces are falsely claiming to have captured several towns near Bakhmut in the past several days, but Ukrainian forces have held their lines against Russian attacks.[2] Russian forces are likely falsifying claims of advances in the Bakhmut area to portray themselves as making gains in at least one sector amid continuing losses in northeast and southern Ukraine.*
*Ukraine's Main Intelligence Directorate announced a $100,000 bounty for the capture of prominent Russian milblogger and former proxy commander Igor Girkin and confirmed his presence in Ukraine, stating “it is known that one of the most famous Russian terrorists has decided to renew his participation in the war against our state.”[3]*
*Russian and Belarusian sources continued to report Russian men and material entering Belarus.[4]*
*Ukrainian sources reported Russian occupation officials in Kherson City are stepping up filtration measures against Ukrainian partisans and accelerating efforts to evacuate key materials and personnel from Kherson to Crimea.[5]*
*Unknown assailants attacked a military commissariat in the suburbs of Moscow with a Molotov cocktail on October 16.[6]*
*Local Russian authorities in Krasnodar Krai reportedly intend to mobilize 1,000 more people by December 2022 and discussed proposals to redirect funding from entertainment events so supply mobilized personnel, seemingly contradicting Putin’s announcement that mobilization will conclude by the end of October 2022.[7]*
*Poor medical care in both frontline and rear-area Russian units is exacerbating already dire morale problems.[8]*



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[1]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=470542768378021




;




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=480141197476835




; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02QbDVVdQfA7d6m4KBN1...; https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/526; https://****/rybar/40265;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581599202714738688.
[2] https://www.unian dot ua/war/bahmut-novini-v-armiji-ukrajini-vkazali-na-brehnyu-zagarbnikiv-shchodo-bojiv-bilya-mista-12013569.html; https://armyinform.com dot ua/2022/10/16/informacziya-rashystiv-pro-zahoplennya-selyshh-poblyzu-bahmuta-ne-vidpovidaye-dijsnosti-sergij-cherevatyj/.
[3] https://gur.gov dot ua/content/hur-harantuie-100000-za-polonenoho-hirkina.html.
[4] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-says-host-just-under-9000-r... ;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581603655098437632; https://****/m0sc0wcalling/12995; https://****/modmilby/18952.
[5] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid021D3Zpu7LfUDk7mqibB...; https://www.facebook.com/sergey.khlan/posts/pfbid0qCV1QHJKcbQztjCjQwb1ct....
[6] https://****/bazabazon/13931.
[7] https://****/Taygainfo/35410; https://ria dot ru/20221014/mobilizatsiya-1824084115.html?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop.
[8] https://gur.gov dot ua/content/skazhy-spasybo-nashemu-hlavnokomanduiushchemu-kotoryi-nakh-esyl-tut-delov.html; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid021D3Zpu7LfUDk7mqibB....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

zartosht said:


> Rumours of Iranian short range missiles entering the war soon. Ukies better pray its fake news cause if they dont like the shaheds, they are reeally reeeeallllly gonna hate fateh
> 
> Depending on the model. Its a large 100-150kg warhead coming at you at mach 4+. Just look at craters on the american base to see the sheer power of them.
> 
> Best of all, Iran has thousands of them and can mass produce them easily and cheaply.
> 
> No wonder all Russian allies are telling their citizens to leave. I see alot of painfor the ukies.



yeah. Washington Post reported it. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581699744308543490

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## Song Hong

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> yeah. Washington Post reported it.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581699744308543490



Iranian drones are easily brought down by electronics warfare as well. But when EW units is not deploy this drones can easy give big harm.

I guess in future EW sidekick is a must for infantry.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581579371562737664


Song Hong said:


> Iranian drones are easily brought down by electronics warfare as well. But when EW units is not deploy this drones can easy give big harm.
> 
> I guess in future EW sidekick is a must for infantry.




The Western backers wouldn't have shown so much panic had those drones been brought down so easily. All of the new deliveries of air defense weapons into Ukraine from Germany, France, UK, and US were in response to the devastation caused by the Iranian-made drones.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581726586549972993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581702934500634624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581579371562737664

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579730612621316096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581527812678201346

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## Song Hong

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581579371562737664
> 
> 
> 
> The Western backers wouldn't have shown so much panic had those drones been brought down so easily. All of the new deliveries of air defense weapons into Ukraine from Germany, France, UK, and US were in response to the devastation caused by the Iranian-made drones.



Me doing EW for quite something. The problem is -- all contemporary ground forces does not have EW.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581684836506357761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581856862219010048

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> i say those tows are downgrade over what Ukraine was receiving before , it seems the war is showing its effect on NATO arsenal
> 
> what for , just take it and use it , why destroy it
> 
> Iranian border guard barracks in Kurdistan region ,used to use those antiaircraft gun and cannons against attacking Kurdish militant , I assure you the result was ugly , you don't want be on receiving end of it even if you hide behind a stone or a mound , you are fucked up


Technology downgrade yes, but the higher technology Javelin already destroyed up to a 1000 of the contemporary current model tanks. If Russians are bringing in older T62s, why not resort to the older technology that was designed for the T62 era. Why waste a Javelin for that


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581861655029624832


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## aviator_fan

BHAN85 said:


> Russia is doing bad.
> 
> First thing USA did in Cuba missile crisis was block Cuba.
> 
> But Russia let the West enters weapons and everything in Ukraine everytime they want.
> 
> You cut Western supply to Kiev, and you dont need to do anything else.
> 
> That's all, without Western money, weapons and free things, Kiev will surrender in 2 days.
> 
> Just cut Western supply and feed Ukrainian people through Russian border.
> 
> But Kremlin beasts prefer the domination through the terror and massive assasination.


In May / June Russia threatened that supply routes from Poland into Ukraine were going to be targets. That made sense that in order to prevail over Ukraine, they would have to cut it off. There wasn't much of a reaction from NATO, which means they must have realized there was no strike capability to do that since the heavier equipment started flowing after that.

Like many lofty goals of the Russian military, this one never came true.

Point is Russia is not blockading because it is compassionate, but because it is unable to attack equipment on the move and is much better at attacking fixed targets.



Battlion25 said:


> Russia tends to get stronger as the battle rages on.. I believe Russia will emerge 100 times stronger and battle hardened from this..


It will emerge stronger with inferior soldiers, armor, and depleted ammunition, and a cut off supply line. This would be highly unconventional for this to occur, but I am keen to understand how.

THe only thing that is getting stronger is the list of senior Russian generals who are relieved of duty

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## aviator_fan

zartosht said:


> Rumours of Iranian short range missiles entering the war soon. Ukies better pray its fake news cause if they dont like the shaheds, they are reeally reeeeallllly gonna hate fateh
> 
> Depending on the model. Its a large 100-150kg warhead coming at you at mach 4+. Just look at craters on the american base to see the sheer power of them.
> 
> Best of all, Iran has thousands of them and can mass produce them easily and cheaply.
> 
> No wonder all Russian allies are telling their citizens to leave. I see alot of painfor the ukies.


This is a new development. Missiles rarely change the outcome of war that has already begun. It may intimidate a country at peace (like Saudi Arabia). Iraq-Iran were lobbing dozens of missiles daily (Scuds back then) at each other's population centers in the 1980s for half the decade. It didn't weaken the resolve of either side and battle was fought by the inventory in the front-lines.

Thats whats going to happen. More dead civilians certainly.

Just imagine, Russians being rescued by arms from a much smaller country

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## zectech

Who knows the Putin plan for using nuclear weapons on Ukraine. It is called DARVO.

Perhaps Putin says US sent nukes to Ukraine to use against Russia. When Putin nukes own cannon fodder in a false flag operation, Russia would nuke Ukraine/Germany off the map "in retaliation."

If the Russian nuke is detonated among Ukrainian forces, blame it on the US/Biden for "bringing a nuke into Ukraine from a NATO nation."

If B-52s go near Ukraine, Putin detonates Russian nuke(s) to cause a crisis and Putin blames the B-52s.

The more a substantial majority is aware that Putin false flags, blames the victims and shifts blame on Russian enemies. The less likely Putin would use nukes. The greater number in the idiot caucus of Putin supporters, the more moron Putin supporters would would cheer for Putin nuking Europe.


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## aviator_fan

Why would Iran deny it when just today there are reports of short range missiles going in.

Either Iran statement is not to be trusted, or press if fabricating the extent of Iran's weapons equipment being sent to Russia










Iran denies supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine | CNN


Iran has denied supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine, saying it "has not and will not" do so.




www.cnn.com





Iran denies supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine​ 

 
By Niamh Kennedy, Negar Mahmoodi, Ivana Kottasová and Andrew Raine, CNN 

Published 10:42 PM EDT, Sat October 15, 2022













A police officer inspects parts of an unmanned aerial vehicle, what Ukrainian authorities consider to be an Iranian-made suicide drone, or Shahed-136, at the site of a Russian strike on fuel storage facilities in Kharkiv, Ukraine, on October 6.
Vyacheslav Madiyevskyy/Reuters

CNN — 

Iran has denied supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine, saying it “has not and will not” do so.

The denial, reportedly made in a phone call between Iran’s Foreign Minister and his Portuguese counterpart on Friday, follows claims by Kyiv and US intelligence that Russia is using Iranian-made “kamikaze drones” in its attacks on Ukrainian territory.

The Iranian government said its Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian emphasized in the call “once again” that Tehran “has not and will not” provide any weapon to be used in the Ukraine war.

“We believe that the arming of each side of the crisis will prolong the war, so we have not considered and do not consider war to be the right way either in Ukraine, Afghanistan, Syria or Yemen,” Amir-Abdollahian said, according to an Iranian readout of the call.





Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian at a news conference with the Russian Foreign Minister in Moscow, on August 31, 2022.
Maxim Shemetov/Pool/AFP/Getty Images

The Portuguese government said its Foreign Minister João Gomes Cravinho had expressed concerns about the “recently reported evidence on the use of Iranian drones by the Russian Federation in Ukrainian territory” and “stressed the need for the Iranian authorities to ensure that this equipment is not supplied to Russia.”

Ukrainian authorities say Russia has used Iranian-supplied kamikaze drones in strikes against Kyiv, Vinnytsia, Odesa, Zaporizhzhia and other cities in recent weeks, and has pleaded with Western countries to step up their assistance in the face of the new challenge. The Ukrainians themselves have been using kamikaze drones to strike against Russian targets.

A key weapon​ 
Drones have played a significant role in the conflict since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in late February, but their use has increased since the summer, when the United States and Kyiv say Moscow acquired the drones from Iran.

On Saturday, just hours after the call between the foreign ministers, the Ukrainian military said the city of Zaporizhzhia had been hit by four kamikaze drone strikes overnight.

Kamikaze drones, or suicide drones, are a type of aerial weapon system. They are known as a loitering munition because they are capable of waiting for some time in an area identified as a potential target and only strike once an enemy asset is identified.

They are small, portable and can be easily launched, but their main advantage is that they are hard to detect and can be fired from a distance.

 





Russia's 'kamikaze drones' are the latest threat for Ukraine. Here's what we know about them


The name “kamikaze” refers to the fact the drones are disposable. They are designed to hit behind the enemy lines and are destroyed in the attack – unlike the more traditional, larger and faster military drones that return home after dropping missiles.

US officials told CNN in July that Iran had begun showcasing Shahed series drones to Russia at Kashan Airfield south of Tehran the previous month. The drones are capable of carrying precision-guided missiles and have a payload of approximately 50 kilograms (110 pounds).

In August, US officials said Russia had bought the

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## BHAN85

aviator_fan said:


> In May / June Russia threatened that supply routes from Poland into Ukraine were going to be targets. That made sense that in order to prevail over Ukraine, they would have to cut it off. There wasn't much of a reaction from NATO, which means they must have realized there was no strike capability to do that since the heavier equipment started flowing after that.
> 
> Like many lofty goals of the Russian military, this one never came true.
> 
> Point is Russia is not blockading because it is compassionate, but because it is unable to attack equipment on the move and is much better at attacking fixed targets.
> 
> 
> It will emerge stronger with inferior soldiers, armor, and depleted ammunition, and a cut off supply line. This would be highly unconventional for this to occur, but I am keen to understand how.
> 
> THe only thing that is getting stronger is the list of senior Russian generals who are relieved of duty


From a Russian rule point of view, it's cheaper terrorize civilians.

I would put soldiers in every path in Ukraine border, and that's all, there is no need from war, neither kill no one.


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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581684836506357761





Don"t see how this helps your country ?

Where the war , you support , only makes things worse.

I am talking about wheat shipment not arriving , and the world that now sends aid to Ukraine on top of the aid given the the usual countries.

See here :









How the focus on Ukraine is hurting other humanitarian responses


The Russian invasion is sucking up attention, funding, and resources. Aid workers say it’s starting to cost lives.




www.thenewhumanitarian.org






This is from today :










Somalia: On the brink of famine


Somalia is fighting a battle on all fronts: drought, disease and conflict.




news.sky.com





~

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## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> i say those tows are downgrade over what Ukraine was receiving before , it seems the war is showing its effect on NATO arsenal


TOWs are not downgraded no matter what people said. Not to mention the Russians are resorting to using old tanks with cope cages.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> This would probably unlock Ukraine own request for US or Western made Cruise Missile. The West has already fast-tracking AA system that was pussyfooted since May, if Iran really do supply those missiles to Russia, US and NATO may supply ATACMS or even Tomahawk missile in good quantity to Ukraine to target those launch site.
> 
> Ukraine has been wanting to get them since March, that would be a bad move for Russia.


Not to mention allow the Ukrainians to be on par with the Russians in terms of such long range firepower. Currently the Russians have the advantage with long range cruise missiles and ballistic missiles and Ukrainians can barely hit back long range.



jhungary said:


> I would not reverse engineer Shahed 136, if I do need that capability, I will just probably send them Tomahawk missile.
> 
> On the other handm Shahed 136 is really simple, basically it's a RC Plane loaded with explosive pre-program to fly and dive into their target, I don't think you need much to reverse engineer those drone.


Question still remains if Biden is willing to give the Tomahawks or even ATACMs in response to Iranian missiles being provided. Biden probably even be slow to react. On the other issue, reverse engineering the Shahed 136 however simple it is and even cheap compared to Tomahawks and ATACMs, even easier for the Ukrainians if provided the tools and materials to make build them in large numbers to hit back against the Russians for long range attacks especially in Crimea. Hit Russian airbases in Ukrainian borders as well to force their helos and aircraft far back that the Russian forces on the ground will have even less air support, not to mention forcing the Russians to expend their expensive SAM missiles to shoot them down. Not to mention showing the Russians the consequences of targeting Ukraine's infrastructures with like powerplants.


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## ZeGerman

West supposedly “hypocrites” but this thread is full of russian cheerleaders trying to justify ethnic cleansing while claiming to be beacon of morality. 
Somehow US/Israel faults justify ukrainian civilians being raped and murdered by russia….



Oh so moral iran now shipping terror rockets. 
Though that fits with their regular MO as worldwide terror supporting pariah state

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## Stryker1982

jhungary said:


> basically it's a RC Plane loaded with explosive pre-program to fly and dive into their target,


No its not like that at all. I have a whole thread on this.



ZeGerman said:


> Oh so moral iran now shipping terror rockets.


NATO; Guided Ballistic Missiles, Tactical Rockets.

*Iran sends the same class weapons*

Iran: "Terror Rockets".

You do realize how childish you sound right?

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## Viet

RoadAmerica said:


> Based on what, wishful thinking?
> You’re just being unrealistic


Christmas is coming. They hope Santa Claus will bring gift. Warm cloth, warm shoes to survive in trenches far from home.

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## jhungary

Stryker1982 said:


> No its not like that at all. I have a whole thread on this.
> 
> 
> NATO; Guided Ballistic Missiles, Tactical Rockets.
> 
> *Iran sends the same class weapons*
> 
> Iran: "Terror Rockets".
> 
> You do realize how childish you sound right?


all i can say is you don't really know much about RC planes


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## Stryker1982

jhungary said:


> all i can say is you don't really know much about RC planes


All I can say is, you don't know much about Iran until 2 weeks ago.

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## MeFishToo

Stryker1982 said:


> No its not like that at all. I have a whole thread on this.
> 
> 
> NATO; Guided Ballistic Missiles, Tactical Rockets.
> 
> *Iran sends the same class weapons*
> 
> Iran: "Terror Rockets".
> 
> You do realize how childish you sound right?


Depends how they use these rockets or missiles. If Russia has no intention striking military targets, but just civilian infrastructure, then it is terror. These last bombing campaigns were just meant to punish Ukraine in generel. I would say that is terror bombing.
Im sure Russia would define missile strikes in Moscow as terror.

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## Stryker1982

MeFishToo said:


> Depends how they use these rockets or missiles. If Russia has no intention striking military targets, but just civilian infrastructure, then it is terror. These last bombing campaigns were just meant to punish Ukraine in generel. I would say that is terror bombing.


Fair enough, of course I have no idea how they will use them, some are claiming residential areas/apartment was hit today, unless their was a navigational issue (which is possible), then I would agree, the attacks would be terror bombing.


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## kingQamaR

Song Hong said:


> Iranian drones are easily brought down by electronics warfare as well. But when EW units is not deploy this drones can easy give big harm.
> 
> I guess in future EW sidekick is a must for infantry.



They work very effectively. They are cheap and unleashed in mass quantities it overwhelms. They have good range but the price makes them excellent and extremely useful. Ukraine has not had an answer for them.

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## Song Hong

kingQamaR said:


> They work very effectively. They are cheap and unleashed in mass quantities it overwhelms. They have good range but the price makes them excellent and extremely useful. Ukraine has not had an answer for them.



The key is quantity. Ukraine has no answer if massive quantity of Iranian drone flooded Ukraine sky. But then, Iranian drone is LOS. You cannot go very deep beyond no man land.

I am not sure whether the quntity is high enough.

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## kingQamaR

Song Hong said:


> The key is quantity. Ukraine has no answer if massive quantity of Iranian drone flooded Ukraine sky. But then, Iranian drone is LOS. You cannot go very deep beyond no man land.
> 
> I am not sure whether the quntity is high enough.



If the story did not make it clear, these are not super drones with advance avoidance technology and/or stealth. Nor are they high tech fast and maneuverable. What they are though is plentiful and cheap enough to send them in to cause more damage than the cost of the drone. The Iranian drone peddler’s here seemed to make it seem like these were wunderweapons.


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## Stryker1982

kingQamaR said:


> They work very effectively. They are cheap and unleashed in mass quantities it overwhelms. They have good range but the price makes them excellent and extremely useful. Ukraine has not had an answer for them.





Song Hong said:


> The key is quantity. Ukraine has no answer if massive quantity of Iranian drone flooded Ukraine sky. But then, Iranian drone is LOS. You cannot go very deep beyond no man land.
> 
> I am not sure whether the quntity is high enough.


Yes, and they can also be directed by other Recon UAVs as part of an group. Compatible Recon UAVs act as a relay, and the eyes of the UAS and can update it's target. If the UAS is well beyond communication range then it is likely used in pre-programmed flight mode. The IAI Harop exacts exactly in this way, as both search & destroy UAV and pre-programable UAS, in this case, Iran has cut back on the cost of the UAS by give the search responsibility to another UAV, and the destroy responsibility to the Shaheed, thereby saving on the optics. This also allows them to operate as a network, rather than individual units.



kingQamaR said:


> advance avoidance technology and/or stealth


It has some basic anti-jam ability, but nothing special or worldclass.

It has a very low IR signature, and honeycomb RAM inside, you can see images of the wreckages. If it had no stealth, it would've been downed by the plentiful shorad they have around the capital. Obviously SARH SAMs have a difficult times with this system. What Ukraine would need is ARH based missiles like David Sling.

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## kingQamaR

Stryker1982 said:


> Yes, and they can also be directed by other Recon UAVs as part of an group. Compatible Recon UAVs act as a relay, and the eyes of the UAS and can update it's target. If the UAS is well beyond communication range then it is likely used in pre-programmed flight mode. The IAI Harop exacts exactly in this way, as both search & destroy UAV and pre-programable UAS, in this case, Iran has cut back on the cost of the UAS by give the search responsibility to another UAV, and the destroy responsibility to the Shaheed, thereby saving on the optics. This also allows them to operate as a network, rather than individual units.
> 
> 
> It has some basic anti-jam ability, but nothing special or worldclass.
> 
> It has a very low IR signature, and honeycomb RAM inside, you can see images of the wreckages. If it had no stealth, it would've been downed by the plentiful shorad they have around the capital. Obviously SARH SAMs have a difficult times with this system. What Ukraine would need is ARH based missiles like David Sling.



Which is the future - cheap mass produced drones can overwhelm the most sophisticated defences.

The answer would be firing $1 million dollar missiles at $500 drones - you soon run out of money on the wrong end of that equation - even if you're the US!

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## Stryker1982

kingQamaR said:


> Which is the future - cheap mass produced drones can overwhelm the most sophisticated defences.
> 
> The answer would be firing $1 million dollar missiles at $500 drones - you soon run out of money on the wrong end of that equation - even if you're the US!


Indeed, of course this is much more expensive than 500$ but I see your point.

The ultimate solution to this problem (which will be a international problem), is probably some Aerostat that can shoot lasers. Would be most cost effective and would be protected by other ground based systems, this is something I think Israel will work towards as they already have parts of this completed.

If Israel sends David Sling to Ukraine, while being a super expensive solution, will likely handle this problem well.

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## jhungary

Stryker1982 said:


> All I can say is, you don't know much about Iran until 2 weeks ago.


You really should get more involved in RC world, honestly it will amaze you how advance RC is today.


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## kingQamaR

Stryker1982 said:


> Indeed, of course this is much more expensive than 500$ but I see your point.
> 
> The ultimate solution to this problem (which will be a international problem), is probably some Aerostat that can shoot lasers. Would be most cost effective and would be protected by other ground based systems, this is something I think Israel will work towards as they already have parts of this completed.
> 
> If Israel sends David Sling to Ukraine, while being a super expensive solution, will likely handle this problem well.



CIWS point defense systems. Cheap enough to deploy over wide areas... can PHALANX CIWS aboard navy ships be made for land use they would be very effective weapon against drones ?


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## Stryker1982

jhungary said:


> You really should get more involved in RC world, honestly it will amaze you how advance RC is today.


I'm aware and respect the work these guys have done here, but Shahed-136 is a more than just a simple RC plane with explosives and pre-programmed flight path. The Russians are not using them at their full potential, probably due to lack of training time. Learn on the job I guess.

Don't get me wrong, it is not some super weapon at all, but on a conceptual level it exploits almost every conceivable vulnerability that AD have today, enhanced by tech growth, it has and will be very dangerous and expensive for any country to deal with including Iran.

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## Beast

MeFishToo said:


> Who wouldnt VOTE yes to become part of an autocracy, right? Speaking russian doesnt mean those people are idiots.


As if Ukraine are better off? No Russian want to be slaughter by other race. Yes, just becos they speak Russian. They want to be with Russia.


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## Stryker1982

kingQamaR said:


> CIWS point defense systems. Cheap enough to deploy over wide areas... can PHALANX CIWS aboard navy ships be made for land use they would be very effective weapon against drones ?


Phalanx is a solid solution to deploy on Government rooftops, it should be able to deal with these systems. Shaheed's need to fly high to avoid hitting building it doesn't intend too. But they are not cheap, and can really only be used a extremely short ranged defense of critical infrastructure. You would need alot of them to cover a large city like Kiev.

Most military targets are not even this far North, so you are really diverting critical AD to defend civilians, when they should be defending important logistical hubs, and depots, electrical infrastructure etc.. 

Personally I like the Gepard due to its mobility, but it's engagement range, is not useful for anything other than point defense, and if it wants to operate to protect frontline equipment, it will put itself in range of artillery. Such risks may need to be taken if Russia starts using Iranian UCAVs

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## Beast

zectech said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580235007972343822
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577813270483828737
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577823772354039808
> The Democrats in the US need a TV Ad called: Putin Manipulation.
> 
> In Europe and America: social, economic and political unrest is being fueled by Putin and Putin is fanning the flames. To have Democrats lose in the US. To have Social Democrats lose in Europe.
> 
> Due to Putins effort, inflation is double digit in much of Europe. The expectation is Putin supporters in Europe would grow with economic and social unrest, a Russian coup.
> 
> Putin is manipulating you, not to help you. To ruin enemies of Russia. To turn the US and Europe into Russian-style autocratic criminal states, owned by cia linked Chabad, cia linked Russian Mafia and other cia linked criminals.
> 
> Most of the entire globe is experiencing inflation. Putin wants to hide this and make it seem your anti-Putin politician is to blame for the inflation. "Your neo-liberal mayor is to blame for inflation", says the Putinite. Their only solution "is for you to vote in Trumpers and Putinites puppets of the deepstate into your mayoral seat."
> 
> The same Russian Republicans that want the EU to crash, cheer for Russia in Ukraine, cheer for Russia defeating the EU... are the Russian Republicans that blame Putins pipeline explosion on Biden. Russian Republicans blame the explosion on the enemy of Russian Republicans and Putin - Biden.
> 
> True statement: "NATO is being attacked economically, socially and politically. Russia wants to destroy NATO Europe. The pipeline was helping to save the NATO economy."
> 
> Question: "Then who did the attack on the pipeline"
> 
> Russian Republican Troll: "NATO"
> 
> Russian Republicans oppose NATO, oppose the Democrats, so they blame Democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book
> 
> 
> ‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump has repeatedly suggested leaving NATO: Report
> 
> 
> President Trump floated the idea of withdrawing the U.S. from NATO among his officials several times last year, The New York Times reported late Monday night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.washingtontimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO chief said Europe cannot defend from Russia, Europe needs the US. So the Russian Republicans want to abandon Europe to Russia.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502387779749257216
> Meaning those that support Putin are also Trumpers and Tucker Carlsonites. It is the cia plot destroy rivals, Russian Republicans using puppet Putin.


Saudi and Russia both hate Biden to core. They want this stupid senile old man dead.


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## Stryker1982

Russians wrote "For Belgorod" on the tail wing, knowing they break off almost intact post-explosion.

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## ZeGerman

Stryker1982 said:


> No its not like that at all. I have a whole thread on this.
> 
> 
> NATO; Guided Ballistic Missiles, Tactical Rockets.
> 
> *Iran sends the same class weapons*
> 
> Iran: "Terror Rockets".
> 
> You do realize how childish you sound right?


You do realize that giving a gun to a hunter or a serial killer is a different moral thing? 

Russia committed ethnic cleansing, annexation war, and used previous iranian weapons for strikes against civilian infrastructure. Iran is now piling weapons in their hands. 

How can Iranians see themselves as just and pious while acting the same as the worst of the USA hawk/radical right?

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## Stryker1982

ZeGerman said:


> You do realize that giving a gun to a hunter or a serial killer is a different moral thing?
> 
> Russia committed ethnic cleansing, annexation war, and used previous iranian weapons for strikes against civilian infrastructure. Iran is now piling weapons in their hands.
> 
> How can Iranians see themselves as just and pious while acting the same as the worst of the USA hawk/radical right?


Personally I was against supporting Russia due to several years of getting screwed over by them. I don’t make these decisions.

If you want to know how decisions are made, frankly speaking the leadership in Iran has no geostrategic benefit here other than ensuring Russia does not break its back in Ukraine. Iran does not want NATO to break Russia completely at which point it’s focus would probably go to Iran. In many ways, Iran wants NATO to stay busy here. And since Nato is the enemy, it becomes justified. 

Since Iran is under heavy sanctions from Europe, it has no incentive not to support Russia for monetary gain. For Iran to pass up the monetary gain that it needs to the benefit of Europe which sanctions it doesn’t seem logical. These decisions start to make more sense under these conditions.

Again, not my way of thinking

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## Viet

Wow

Putin invasion army breaks the US record.

The world’s second best army Russia lost more men in 8 months than the US army in 10 years in Vietnam.

If adding the number of wounded, usually 5x deaths, Russia has 325,000 wounded.









Russian Death Toll in Ukraine Overtakes American Losses in Vietnam: Kyiv


One analyst told Newsweek that Ukraine's estimate for the number of Russian dead "may not be too far off the mark."



www.newsweek.com

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## jhungary

Stryker1982 said:


> I'm aware and respect the work these guys have done here, but Shahed-136 is a more than just a simple RC plane with explosives and pre-programmed flight path. The Russians are not using them at their full potential, probably due to lack of training time. Learn on the job I guess.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it is not some super weapon at all, but on a conceptual level it exploits almost every conceivable vulnerability that AD have today, enhanced by tech growth, it has and will be very dangerous and expensive for any country to deal with including Iran.


Well consider this

Is Shahed-136 Stealth?
Does Shahed-136 have counter meaasure?
Can Shahed-136 communicate with fighter?

If all the above answer is no, then it's a programmed A-B drone loaded with explosive, to be frank, it's the same as Food Delivery Drone just instead it deliver my Uber Eat, it deliver bombs payload....

There are report that Ukrainian ZSU intercepted 6 Shahed-136 drones in succession, so no, it is not really that expensive to deal with. I mean I don't think Shahed-136 can escape CIWS type weapon system that shoot 20mm round.

And I would say even Accomplished Drone such as Switchblade or TB-2 is not expensive at all to counter, it basically depends on how you can do it. You can either soft kill and hard kill any drone.

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## ZeGerman

Stryker1982 said:


> Personally I was against supporting Russia due to several years of getting screwed over by them. I don’t make these decisions.
> 
> If you want to know how decisions are made, frankly speaking the leadership in Iran has no geostrategic benefit here other than ensuring Russia does not break its back in Ukraine. Iran does not want NATO to break Russia completely at which point it’s focus would probably go to Iran. In many ways, Iran wants NATO to stay busy here. And since Nato is the enemy, it becomes justified.
> 
> Since Iran is under heavy sanctions from Europe, it has no incentive not to support Russia for monetary gain. For Iran to pass up the monetary gain that it needs to the benefit of Europe which sanctions it doesn’t seem logical. These decisions start to make more sense under these conditions.
> 
> Again, not my way of thinking


Fair reply. I understand the geopolitical reasons, my post was more against some iranian posters who act like iran is a innocent poor victim.

Geopolitically i think it is the wrong move as well. These weapons will not change the tide….iran is in a very isolated and select list of russia supporters and many Nato countries will not forget.

Apart from alienating others and not changing the battlefield reality, they also caused more Nato support to ukraine with anti-air and anti-drone. And Irans weapons and strategies in ukraine will be under eyes of Nato intelligence, to test and improve their anti-drone defenses and doctrines vs Iran.


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## Hack-Hook

aviator_fan said:


> Technology downgrade yes, but the higher technology Javelin already destroyed up to a 1000 of the contemporary current model tanks. If Russians are bringing in older T62s, why not resort to the older technology that was designed for the T62 era. Why waste a Javelin for that


simple , javelin , fire and forget . Tow , fire and keep the lock on target. put the operator in danger and need more expertise to operate


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## MMM-E

jhungary said:


> There are report that Ukrainian ZSU intercepted 6 Shahed-136 drones in succession, so no, it is not really that expensive to deal with. I mean I don't think Shahed-136 can escape CIWS type weapon system that shoot 20mm round.



Ukraine needs Turkish KORKUT SPAAG with 35mm airburst ammunition ( range of 4 km ) to intercept Shahed-136 Drones so easily

Mobile and cost effective fire power to protect Ukrainian Forces and critical facilities from Shahed-136 kamikaze Drones

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## MeFishToo

Russia striking civilian infrastructure in Ukraine using drones doesnt change a thing at the frontline. But still, they need alot of dedicated point defence systems to combat those attacks. Maybe the solution would be to supply Ukraine with the same amount of drones or missiles and give them carte blanche to retaliate against Moscow..



MMM-E said:


> Ukraine needs Turkish KORKUT SPAAG with 35mm airburst ammunition ( range of 4 km ) to intercept Shahed-136 Drones so easly
> 
> Mobile and cost effective fire power to protect Ukrainian Forces and critical facilities from kamikaze Drones


This is basically a Gepard. Problem is no one seems to have any to spare.

Ukraine needs alot of these, rotating positions around key areas they want to protect from drone or cruise missile attacks

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## Shawnee

Closest picture of Shahed before the attack.


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## dbc

jhungary said:


> Well consider this
> 
> Is Shahed-136 Stealth?
> Does Shahed-136 have counter meaasure?
> Can Shahed-136 communicate with fighter?
> 
> If all the above answer is no, then it's a programmed A-B drone loaded with explosive, to be frank, it's the same as Food Delivery Drone just instead it deliver my Uber Eat, it deliver bombs payload....
> 
> There are report that Ukrainian ZSU intercepted 6 Shahed-136 drones in succession, so no, it is not really that expensive to deal with. I mean I don't think Shahed-136 can escape CIWS type weapon system that shoot 20mm round.
> 
> And I would say even Accomplished Drone such as Switchblade or TB-2 is not expensive at all to counter, it basically depends on how you can do it. You can either soft kill and hard kill any drone.


FYI, Javelin just got a software update that enables it kill cruise missiles and drones using stinger missiles. Twice the range of Stinger and significantly reduced time to lock targets. 














Ukraine’s Javelin Missiles Have a New Specialty: Shooting Down Russian Cruise Missiles


While it’s an imperfect capability, it’s nice to have in a pinch—especially when your adversary is striking civilian areas like playgrounds.




www.popularmechanics.com

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## Soldier35

A large-scale strike with the help of Geran-2 kamikaze drones was inflicted by the Russian army today on October 17. Prime Minister of Ukraine Denys Shmyhal said that kamikaze drones had attacked energy facilities and critical infrastructure in Kyiv. The office of the energy company Ukrenergo was also hit by Russian Geran-2 drones.








Ukrainian army units on French VAB 4×4 armored vehicles with infantry on board came under attack from Russian artillery in the Kherson region. As a result of the attack, two VAB armored vehicles were destroyed. The video also shows another destroyed armored personnel carrier, but its type could not be determined.






In Germany, at one of the railway stations, self-propelled guns Panzerhaubitze 2000 were seen. As reported, an additional batch of self-propelled guns Panzerhaubitze 2000 is being prepared for shipment to Ukraine. Also, the Ukrainian army will receive a new batch of armored vehicles and other equipment. Earlier, several repaired self-propelled guns of the same type were returned from the Baltic States to Ukraine.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Not to mention allow the Ukrainians to be on par with the Russians in terms of such long range firepower. Currently the Russians have the advantage with long range cruise missiles and ballistic missiles and Ukrainians can barely hit back long range.
> 
> 
> Question still remains if Biden is willing to give the Tomahawks or even ATACMs in response to Iranian missiles being provided. Biden probably even be slow to react. On the other issue, reverse engineering the Shahed 136 however simple it is and even cheap compared to Tomahawks and ATACMs, even easier for the Ukrainians if provided the tools and materials to make build them in large numbers to hit back against the Russians for long range attacks especially in Crimea. Hit Russian airbases in Ukrainian borders as well to force their helos and aircraft far back that the Russian forces on the ground will have even less air support, not to mention forcing the Russians to expend their expensive SAM missiles to shoot them down. Not to mention showing the Russians the consequences of targeting Ukraine's infrastructures with like powerplants.


Think Biden would be forced to send either Tomahawk or at least ATACMS (If Ukraine did not have it already) The Ukrainian is going to ask a lot of assistance on targetting launch spot for those drone and missile coming Ukrainian way,.

On the other hand, as I said before, why reverse engineer when you can put bombs on existing RC/Drone, it's cheaper and quicker that way, I assume a lot of hobbyist in Ukraine can help out with that.



dbc said:


> FYI, Javelin just got a software update that enables it kill cruise missiles and drones using stinger missiles. Twice the range of Stinger and significantly reduced time to lock targets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s Javelin Missiles Have a New Specialty: Shooting Down Russian Cruise Missiles
> 
> 
> While it’s an imperfect capability, it’s nice to have in a pinch—especially when your adversary is striking civilian areas like playgrounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.popularmechanics.com


Stinger still too expensive, I would probably just install land base CIWS on high-risk spot. I don't think those flying lawn mower (Which is what the Ukrainian called them) can evade CIWS.


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## Akritas

8th month of war in Ukraine, desperation plans on the Russian side, drones are used blindly against civilian targets, not on the battlefield. 
An attempt at drone terrorism. 
If this is how the Russian generals hope to win the war, then let them understand that they have already lost communicatively, morally and slowly, it can be seen on the battlefield, where the Ukrainians are liberating occupied territory.

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## MeFishToo

Akritas said:


> 8th month of war in Ukraine, desperation plans on the Russian side, drones are used blindly against civilian targets, not on the battlefield.
> An attempt at drone terrorism.
> If this is how the Russian generals hope to win the war, then let them understand that they have already lost communicatively, morally and slowly, it can be seen on the battlefield, where the Ukrainians are liberating occupied territory.


I believe those strikes are mostly PR for the russian population. They are reported and glorified as strikes on military infrastructure. Like “gloves are now off, Zar Putin is teaching Ukraine a lesson”. Again a miscalculation, the civilized west cant let this go by without increasing support for Ukraine.


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## kingQamaR

Uk have large stocks of Rapier which is going out of service having been replaced by Sky Sabre. They should send all Rapier stocks to Ukraine. While Rapier is too obsolete for engaging high speed jets, it should be perfectly capable of bringing down these slow moving drones and also have a chance at interdicting cruise missiles. There is no reason for keeping them locked in warehouses in the UK when they could be saving civilian lives in Ukraine


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## Beast

mike2000 is back said:


> I agree. Its actually weird that Western powers treated Russia more benovently than China despite Russia being far more belligerent and aggressive than China. I always wondered why. Maybe because China is a far away Adian country while Russia is still part of/very closed to Europe and emerged as one of the main suppliers of European energy/gas so European countries didnt want to get on their bad side.


Becos China has a higher probability of over taking western in economy ，technology , industries and leadership of the globe. While Russia despite being big sits on non futile land and non strategic places. 

What would u do to try slow down or eliminate the bigger threat?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581944041783971840
Once again, the Iranian drones were used for terror bombing

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## zhxy

jhungary said:


> Think Biden would be forced to send either Tomahawk or at least ATACMS (If Ukraine did not have it already) The Ukrainian is going to ask a lot of assistance on targetting launch spot for those drone and missile coming Ukrainian way,.
> 
> On the other hand, as I said before, why reverse engineer when you can put bombs on existing RC/Drone, it's cheaper and quicker that way, I assume a lot of hobbyist in Ukraine can help out with that.
> 
> 
> Stinger still too expensive, I would probably just install land base CIWS on high-risk spot. I don't think those flying lawn mower (Which is what the Ukrainian called them) can evade CIWS.





jhungary said:


> Well consider this
> 
> Is Shahed-136 Stealth?
> Does Shahed-136 have counter meaasure?
> Can Shahed-136 communicate with fighter?
> 
> If all the above answer is no, then it's a programmed A-B drone loaded with explosive, to be frank, it's the same as Food Delivery Drone just instead it deliver my Uber Eat, it deliver bombs payload....
> 
> There are report that Ukrainian ZSU intercepted 6 Shahed-136 drones in succession, so no, it is not really that expensive to deal with. I mean I don't think Shahed-136 can escape CIWS type weapon system that shoot 20mm round.
> 
> And I would say even Accomplished Drone such as Switchblade or TB-2 is not expensive at all to counter, it basically depends on how you can do it. You can either soft kill and hard kill any drone.




What do you think if before the war, Putin decided to buy license shahed-136 from Iran and produce 1 million units. (the cost of 1 unit is 20k USD, 1 million units is 20 billion USD)

With 1 million Shahed-136 if the war starts, can the Russians easily win this war? Could it save time, less bloodshed, and be less expensive?

I think 20 billion dollars for 1 million units of Shahed-136 is acceptable, because the current loss of Russia (including soldiers, weapons....) is several hundred billion dollars.


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## Beast

Song Hong said:


> Ukraine has lost the war. Fate of Ukraine will be partition and major powers are preparing for it. I estimate Ukraine being a 40 million nation, loss 10 million as per today as refuges. Loss to Europe is about 7.5 millions. I estimate at 2.5 millions loss to Russia are not registered as refuges but as legal residence,
> 
> The profile of refuges bode disaster for Ukraine. 90% are young women and children. That means Ukraine man has no one to fk now.
> 
> And unlike Islam refuges, EU see Ukraine refuges as jackpot strike (a bunch of young women and children) and open a fast track for their naturalization.
> 
> Eventually their husbands and boyfriend will follow, now that their woman got Switzerland or Norway citizenship. 10 more millions most vital and smart people will migrate.
> 
> Ukraine is doom.
> 
> View attachment 887181
> 
> 
> View attachment 887182
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Situation Ukraine Refugee Situation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> data.unhcr.org


Jackpot immigration? Including neo Nazi, criminal or sex pervert?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581969942651756544

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## jhungary

zhxy said:


> What do you think if before the war, Putin decided to buy license shahed-136 from Iran and produce 1 million units. (the cost of 1 unit is 20k USD, 1 million units is 20 billion USD)
> 
> With 1 million Shahed-136 if the war starts, can the Russians easily win this war? Could it save time, less bloodshed, and be less expensive?
> 
> I think 20 billion dollars for 1 million units of Shahed-136 is acceptable, because the current loss of Russia (including soldiers, weapons....) is several hundred billion dollars.


First of all, if Russia really do buy 1 million shahed drone, it wouldn't make much of a different after they had used around 10,000-20,000. Shahed is not a wonder weapon where Ukrainian cannot intercept. By the time Russia used 10,000 of those, the Ukrainian would probably already find a way to neutralise those drone capability. The more you use a single weapon platform, the more your enemy will be able to adapted to it. It's like Turkey TB-2 Drone, it would make an impact when it was brand new, but 3 to 4 months down the road, Russia had adapted the use of TB-2 and it's effectiveness had largely decreased since then, not saying it will not be useful after that certain amount, but rather it would most likely lose the edge. 

Second of all, Shahed Drone is what we called strategic weapon, which mean it will not change the tactical situation, ie what happening in the field, which would be a problem if Ukraine is a peer or near peer enemy with Russia, the problem is, you can hit as many Civilian Target or Industrial Target you want, the weapon weren't there, because it is the west that's backing Ukraine with weapon. The only way to make a strategic different is to send those drones to EU arms factory or arms depot and destroy those before it got ship to Ukraine, otherwise weapon and munition would just keep on coming. 

During WW2, the only reason why Allied started strategic bombing is to pin down Germany Weapon and Resource (like Oil Refinery or ball bearing factory) production capability, training ground or marshalling area, but that is not the case in Ukraine, as they produce almost no war material in Ukraine, and most troop weren't train inside Ukraine and was protected by the West.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Beast said:


> Becos China has a higher probability of over taking western in economy ，technology , industries and leadership of the globe. While Russia despite being big sits on non futile land and non strategic places.
> 
> What would u do to try slow down or eliminate the bigger threat?


No...






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581751911337758720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580889347846713344
Most of Chinese advancement in tech uses Western & Taiwan techs to achieve it. If you got cut off. China can't be a leader in anything.

Why do you think Xi Jinping backs off when the West demands China not to support Russia?

Notable example being Huawei.




__





China's Huawei scales back Russia operations to avoid US sanctions - Business & Human Rights Resource Centre







www.business-humanrights.org







F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581944041783971840
> Once again, the Iranian drones were used for terror bombing


Retaliate by dropping packages of small arms in tehran & other cities in Iran.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Another day in the meat grinder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581724134706655232

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

Song Hong said:


> The key is quantity. Ukraine has no answer if massive quantity of Iranian drone flooded Ukraine sky. But then, Iranian drone is LOS. You cannot go very deep beyond no man land.
> 
> I am not sure whether the quntity is high enough.


Ukraine needs Iron Dome.
The Jews are best trained and have means against suicide attacks.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582007939774107650

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582007900905799681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582007910015434752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581998917553905666

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MMM-E

MeFishToo said:


> This is basically a Gepard. Problem is no one seems to have any to spare.
> 
> Ukraine needs alot of these, rotating positions around key areas they want to protect from drone or cruise missile attacks





Viet said:


> Ukraine needs Iron Dome.
> The Jews are best trained and have means against suicide attacks.



Ukraine needs mobile CIWS + Missiles combined

Turkish SUNGUR mobile Air Defense System to intercept Shahed-136 kamikaze Drones within 8 km

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> Rumours of Iranian short range missiles entering the war soon. Ukies better pray its fake news cause if they dont like the shaheds, they are reeally reeeeallllly gonna hate fateh
> 
> Depending on the model. Its a large 100-150kg warhead coming at you at mach 4+. Just look at craters on the american base to see the sheer power of them.
> 
> Best of all, Iran has thousands of them and can mass produce them easily and cheaply.
> 
> No wonder all Russian allies are telling their citizens to leave. I see alot of painfor the ukies.


Iran is depending on US electronics for its drones, so mass production could soon be a problem.

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## Viet

Ouch!

What happens to natural gas price?

Crashing to $129 now.

Down from $352, when Putin began escalating blackmailing the EU.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Viet

MMM-E said:


> Ukraine needs mobile CIWS + Missiles combined
> 
> Turkish SUNGUR mobile Air Defense System to intercept Shahed-136 kamikaze Drones within 8 km


will be a welcome move. Turks drones are well received in Ukraine. I am surprised that Putin still smiling when meeting Erdogan. Ukraine needs to strengthen air defense quickly. Seems Iran mullahs are keen on more terror bloodshed they will send ballistic missiles.







Iran reportedly set to ship ballistic missiles to Russia for use in Ukraine | The Times of Israel







www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Stryker1982

jhungary said:


> Is Shahed-136 Stealth?
> Does Shahed-136 have counter meaasure?
> Can Shahed-136 communicate with fighter?


1. Yes, it does. Not only does it have very low IR signature thanks to its engine, that makes most MANPADS have trouble locking on its signature (as was demonstrated on video over Kiev). If you have looked at the wreckages yourself, you can see what body is made of which is a combination of fiberglass exterior, interior carbonfiber lining and honeycomb RAM. You will see very similar structure in the Bayraktar TB2. This enhances what is already a relatively small UAS.

It's RAS is also good. It is clearly what one would regard as "stealth".

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572046686138302465
The degree at which it is "stealth" of course varies on alot, but does it exhibit stealth technologies? Yes.

2. It does have anti-EW module inside, the Ukrainians themselves have verified this after capturing malfunctioned older Shahed-131 relatively intact.

3. It can communicate with recon UAVs and receive targeting coordinates from them. Most Iranian suicide drones are like this, they typically have antennas for communication despite having no optics. The cost of search & destroy have been split into two parts instead of what is typically regarded as a suicide drone like the IAI Harop where the whole kill chain is built into one.

If you are asking these questions, then why are you so confidently speaking about what it is. Everyone has become an expert on Iran overnight.


----------



## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581454961149325312

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dbc

Viet said:


> will be a welcome move. Turks drones are well received in Ukraine. I am surprised that Putin still smiling when meeting Erdogan. Ukraine needs to strengthen air defense quickly. Seems Iran mullahs are keen on more terror bloodshed they will send ballistic missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran reportedly set to ship ballistic missiles to Russia for use in Ukraine | The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com


There are lots of solutions but there is none that covers all of Ukraine. Especially when the Russians are targeting random undefended civilian facilities with the Shaheed drones. These attacks are meant to weaken the resolve of the people to fight but it is having the opposite effect.

The unrest in Iran is preventing the US from taking any action that will redirect Iranian civilian ire from the Iranian regime to the US. For now we bide our time.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Stryker1982

jhungary said:


> nd I would say even Accomplished Drone such as Switchblade or TB-2 is not expensive at all to counter, it basically depends on how you can do it. You can either soft kill and hard kill any drone.


Fair point, but it is worth using a BUK to kill a TB-2, not for a Shaheed which was verifiably used over Kiev to down 1 (confirmed). The underlying issue with these class of systems. Probably the need for direct energy weapons will be the accelerated


----------



## Viet

Belarus army is on the move. Massive troop concentration just 10km from Ukraine border. North of Kiew.
The joint Belarus/Russia army bears the triangle as code sign.


----------



## Stryker1982

dbc said:


> The unrest in Iran is preventing the US from taking any action that will redirect Iranian civilian ire from the Iranian regime to the US.


The unrest in Iran is exactly the time, you've got it backwards, most Iranians do not see the US as the enemy and would prefer their support.

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## MMM-E

Viet said:


> will be a welcome move. Turks drones are well received in Ukraine. I am surprised that Putin still smiling when meeting Erdogan. Ukraine needs to strengthen air defense quickly. Seems Iran mullahs are keen on more terror bloodshed they will send ballistic missiles.



Not only Ukraine but also 34 Countries bought TB-2 UCAV from Turkiye


*Turkiye can change balance of power in Ukraine for Russia
but Turkiye doesnt sell weapons ... Turkiye is neutral *

-- BAYKAR increase production capability to produce 500 TB2 UCAVs annually

-- Guided MLRS , TRLG-122 , TRLG-230 and TRG-300 with range of 40-70-120 km to hit even moving targets

-- 150 km J600T and 280 km KHAN Tactical Ballistic Missiles

-- KARAOK shoulder launched anti-Tank Missile ... similar to American JAVELIN

-- 1.000 km KARGI anti-radiation Drone with RF seeker .. 200 km variant with E/O System

-- ALPAGU and KARGU tactical kamikaze Drones

-- 100 km Aselsan STR weapon detection Radar to find HIMARS MLRS


And game over for Ukraine ...


----------



## jhungary

Stryker1982 said:


> 1. Yes, it does. Not only does it have very low IR signature thanks to its engine, that makes most MANPADS have trouble locking on its signature (as was demonstrated on video over Kiev). If you have looked at the wreckages yourself, you can see what body is made of which is a combination of fiberglass exterior, interior carbonfiber lining and honeycomb RAM. You will see very similar structure in the Bayraktar TB2. This enhances what is already a relatively small UAS.
> 
> It's RAS is also good. It is clearly what one would regard as "stealth".
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572046686138302465
> The degree at which it is "stealth" of course varies on alot, but does it exhibit stealth technologies? Yes.
> 
> 2. It does have anti-EW module inside, the Ukrainians themselves have verified this after capturing malfunctioned older Shahed-131 relatively intact.
> 
> 3. It can communicate with recon UAVs and receive targeting coordinates from them. Most Iranian suicide drones are like this, they typically have antennas for communication despite having no optics. The cost of search & destroy have been split into two parts instead of what is typically regarded as a suicide drone like the IAI Harop where the whole kill chain is built into one.
> 
> If you are asking these questions, then why are you so confidently speaking about what it is. Everyone has become an expert on Iran overnight.


1.) Stealth is NOT just about RCS; you also have to take care of "Heat and Noise Signature" and you can't have that on a 2 stroke Engine. 

2.) Lol, if you count that off the shelve anti-Jamming device is Anti-EW module the Ukrainian found, well, then yes, you have them.....

3.) If it did not have optics, which mean it can at most receive and compile coordinate, it cannot do what we called "Pathfinding" into their target. My wife Volvo GPS can do that. What I am talking about is the communication link akin to L-3 linkage, where you can literally guide the drone to the target either with active or passive guidance. If you cannot guide the drone onto target with passive guidance, that mean whatever "Communicate" with your drone have to be on target until the drone hit it, then why not just have your monitor hit the target with direct munition instead? Bear in mind the reason to use suicide drone is to limit the exposure of your force, if you have to put something on target, you may as well hit it with that and go home, because you are already risking that asset on target.

I am not an expert on Iran, I AM AN EXPERT ON DRONE. I know how they work and what they work.



Stryker1982 said:


> Fair point, but it is worth using a BUK to kill a TB-2, not for a Shaheed which was verifiably used over Kiev to down 1 (confirmed). The underlying issue with these class of systems. Probably the need for direct energy weapons will be the accelerated


Again, ZSU or CIWS type system is enough to bring down the drone, it's not fast, it's not maneuverable and it does not have decoy.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582036863086301185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582037459344404482
A Russian Su-34 has crashed into a residential building in Russia

Reactions: Wow Wow:
2


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## Dariush the Great

dbc said:


> The unrest in Iran is preventing the US from taking any action that will redirect Iranian civilian ire from the Iranian regime to the US. For now we bide our time.


The US can kick out regime officials and their children who are grazing on the freedom of the US despite the ''death to USA'' slogans by their daddies back home.

Why don't you kick these hypocrites and their families out of the US or those other Western nations? Or is it that you need them in your double games?


----------



## Stryker1982

jhungary said:


> 1.) Stealth is NOT just about RCS; you also have to take care of "Heat and Noise Signature" and you can't have that on a 2 stroke Engine.
> 
> 2.) Lol, if you count that off the shelve anti-Jamming device is Anti-EW module the Ukrainian found, well, then yes, you have them.....
> 
> 3.) If it did not have optics, which mean it can at most receive and compile coordinate, it cannot do what we called "Pathfinding" into their target. My wife Volvo GPS can do that. What I am talking about is the communication link akin to L-3 linkage, where you can literally guide the drone to the target either with active or passive guidance. If you cannot guide the drone onto target with passive guidance, that mean whatever "Communicate" with your drone have to be on target until the drone hit it, then why not just have your monitor hit the target with direct munition instead? Bear in mind the reason to use suicide drone is to limit the exposure of your force, if you have to put something on target, you may as well hit it with that and go home, because you are already risking that asset on target.
> 
> I am not an expert on Iran, I AM AN EXPERT ON DRONE. I know how they work and what they work.


1. The noise signature is a problem I agree, the heat signature is practically not existent, as I already stated. They probably did some cost-benefit analysis and determined the trade off is worth it. Unhoused 2 stroke engine with the right materials can be pretty cold.

2. I didn't say it is world class or anything lol, you asked and I answered. 

3). This is where it is not 100% certain. Technically this drone and its name is not even Iranian, but an Israeli designation because Iran never unveiled it formally, so all the info we have is purely open-source. 

Their are different suicide UAS in Iran, and different variants. We've seen some with what appears to be infared nosecaps or small housing for a camera at the tip of the head, and some and others do not any. The version that Russia has as far as we are concerned does not, which allows them much greater ability to use these at large quantities. 

The reason the UCAV wouldn't just hit the targets and leave is probably because this airspace is so densely packed with AD systems, that any Russian or Iranian system that tries interdiction would probably not survive on the way out. They would need to stay much further back and coordinate with these Shaheeds. We already see how UCAVs cannot survive in this environment. It's not as efficient as active guidance, because suddenly your target may move and it may not be able to adjust in time, and needs constant course updates, these are limitations for this particular drone. 

Other variants can have what you are referring too.


----------



## Viet

MMM-E said:


> Not only Ukraine but also 34 Countries bought TB-2 UCAV from Turkiye
> 
> 
> *Turkiye can change balance of power in Ukraine for Russia
> but Turkiye doesnt sell weapons ... Turkiye is neutral *
> 
> -- BAYKAR increase production capability to produce 500 TB2 UCAVs annually
> 
> -- Guided MLRS , TRLG-122 , TRLG-230 and TRG-300 with range of 40-70-120 km to hit even moving targets
> 
> -- 150 km J600T and 280 km KHAN Tactical Ballistic Missiles
> 
> -- 1.000 km KARGI anti-radiation Drone with RF seeker .. 200 km variant with E/O System
> 
> -- ALPAGU and KARGU tactical kamikaze Drones
> 
> -- 100 km Aselsan STR weapon detection Radar to find HIMARS MLRS
> 
> 
> And game over for Ukraine ...


I thought Turkey supports Ukraine. 
Or you going to use against Greece?


----------



## Beast

Reashot Xigwin said:


> No...
> View attachment 887315
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581751911337758720
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580889347846713344
> Most of Chinese advancement in tech uses Western & Taiwan techs to achieve it. If you got cut off. China can't be a leader in anything.
> 
> Why do you think Xi Jinping backs off when the West demands China not to support Russia?
> 
> Notable example being Huawei.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's Huawei scales back Russia operations to avoid US sanctions - Business & Human Rights Resource Centre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.business-humanrights.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Retaliate by dropping packages of small arms in tehran & other cities in Iran.


LOL... Another BS and nonsense from you? Most Chinese tech is from West and Taiwan? Then tell me how China EV sector grown into mammoth? and why did Huawei didnt collapse despite sanction? You are a well know anti-China hater. Not surprising this kind of nonsense spin story from you... Tell me why China managed to build space station and having all kind of advance? Some how magically the HSR tech China copy from West travel fast than them and more stable than Japan HSR since the West can easily straggle China. There are simply too much example China are leading many industries which nobody venture before. Tell other DJI drone tech is copy from west, they will laugh off your head. Get over it. China advancement is real and China tech is fact. Cry harder, loser and continue with so much of your lies.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581982738386518019

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581923354629414914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581913628126883840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582044553850552320

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Stryker1982 said:


> 1. The noise signature is a problem I agree, the heat signature is practically not existent, as I already stated. They probably did some cost-benefit analysis and determined the trade off is worth it. Unhoused 2 stroke engine with the right materials can be pretty cold.
> 
> 2. I didn't say it is world class or anything lol, you asked and I answered.
> 
> 3). This is where it is not 100% certain. Technically this drone and its name is not even Iranian, but an Israeli designation because Iran never unveiled it formally, so all the info we have is purely open-source.
> 
> Their are different suicide UAS in Iran, and different variants. We've seen some with what appears to be infared nosecaps or small housing for a camera at the tip of the head, and some and others do not any. The version that Russia has as far as we are concerned does not, which allows them much greater ability to use these at large quantities.
> 
> The reason the UCAV wouldn't just hit the targets and leave is probably because this airspace is so densely packed with AD systems, that any Russian or Iranian system that tries interdiction would probably not survive on the way out. They would need to stay much further back and coordinate with these Shaheeds. We already see how UCAVs cannot survive in this environment. It's not as efficient as active guidance, because suddenly your target may move and it may not be able to adjust in time, and needs constant course updates, these are limitations for this particular drone.
> 
> Other variants can have what you are referring too.


1.) Heat Signature is going to be a problem, because you are talking about temperature in contrast to the sky. Which depends on altitude, it's range between 10-25 degree C, a 2 strokes engine can warm up to at least 50 degree C, that's a very big contrast. 

You may be able to mask the heat signature if that is terrain hugging drone, but that would mean you need autonomous guidance system, which mean the moment it shoots up, that engine will get pick up like a hot rock in freezer. 

2.) You aren't answering my question. I asked "Did Shahed 136 have counter measure". I.E. Chaff, Flare, Electronic Countermeasure. Not anti-Jamming device. 

3.) This is not about open source, this is about physical attribute, I mean, unless Iran follow some sort of special physics which the Chinese here usually brag about, if you don't have optics onboard, you can't guide the drone passively on target. Which mean either it will become Fire and Forget, or predetermined waypoint, and the only thing you can change the way point for course adjustment is as if you have eyes on your drones from launch to on target. That's what the optical system for. And if you don't have it, you will need a set of physical eyes on target. 

Which again, defeat the purpose of launching a suicide drone to begin with, I don't know how or why Iran want to use loitering munition, but if I have to have a spotter on ground or in the air, then why I don't just strike that target with that asset? This is not about open source, this is about how drone was used. 

The very reason to use suicide drone is you don't want to risk your asset on high risk A2/AD laden area, so you use loitering munition, did it not defeat the purpose if you require a set of eyes on target to do course correction if you want to hit your target accurately??

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

The best Russian pilot

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582045969709174784
You see silly westerner while you give your recruit thousands of dollars in benefits as signing off bonus we in mother Russia only need to give potatoes to our soldiers. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582044184088674307


Beast said:


> LOL... Another BS and nonsense from you? Most Chinese tech is from West and Taiwan? Then tell me how China EV sector grown into mammoth? and why did Huawei didnt collapse despite sanction? You are a well know anti-China hater. Not surprising this kind of nonsense spin story from you... Tell me why China managed to build space station and having all kind of advance? Some how magically the HSR tech China copy from West travel fast than them and more stable than Japan HSR since the West can easily straggle China. There are simply too much example China are leading many industries which nobody venture before. Tell other DJI drone tech is copy from west, they will laugh off your head. Get over it. China advancement is real and China tech is fact. Cry harder, loser and continue with so much of your lies.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Belarus army is on the move. Massive troop concentration just 10km from Ukraine border. North of Kiew.
> The joint Belarus/Russia army bears the triangle as code sign.



It would be v.v.v.v brave and stupid of Belarus to enter this war right now... perfect opportunity for NATO by proxy to get involved and over throw the current regime there...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Ali_Baba said:


> It would be v.v.v.v brave and stupid of Belarus to enter this war right now... perfect opportunity for NATO by proxy to get involved and over throw the current regime there...


This is one of them rare situation where going to war is a good thing actually. The belarusian army are pretty much non existent and their populace are pretty much anti war in the Ukraine.

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## BHAN85

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582036863086301185
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582037459344404482
> A Russian Su-34 has crashed into a residential building in Russia



Sabotage?

I think it's the very first time a fighter jet crash in a residential building.









Russia fighter crashes into apartments in city near Ukraine, killing 13


A Russian fighter plane crashed into a residential building in the southern city of Yeysk shortly after take-off on Monday, engulfing apartments in a fireball and killing at least 13 people, Interfax news agency reported.




www.reuters.com





And it's near to Ukraine.

Or it's the God of Azov punishing Russian devil.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

BHAN85 said:


> Sabotage?
> 
> I think it's the very first time a fighter jet crash in a residential building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia fighter crashes into apartments in city near Ukraine, killing 13
> 
> 
> A Russian fighter plane crashed into a residential building in the southern city of Yeysk shortly after take-off on Monday, engulfing apartments in a fireball and killing at least 13 people, Interfax news agency reported.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it's near to Ukraine.
> 
> Or it's the God of Azov punishing Russian devil.


Pilot error caused by shortages most likely. The Russian sends sailors and airmen to fight in a pointless ground war


----------



## Beast

Reashot Xigwin said:


> View attachment 887348


Indeed, that all the BS you can reply with your freedom of lying speech.. Sourgrape loser everyday scream China copy or China depend on West. Cry harder while China will continue to progress while loser like you keep weeping.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## HAIDER

Seems Russians will start their next offensive during winter peak.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582037469683675136





The SU-34 has 2 pilots!?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582053951070879744

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1 | Angry Angry:
2


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## Reashot Xigwin

The second best army in the world everyone. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581999294437298178


Beast said:


> Indeed, that all the BS you can reply with your freedom of lying speech.. Sourgrape loser everyday scream China copy or China depend on West. Cry harder while China will continue to progress while loser like you keep weeping.


Not anymore apparently. Turns out Dark Brandon singlehandedly kills the entire Chinese chip industry. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395798259914919939

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> It would be v.v.v.v brave and stupid of Belarus to enter this war right now... perfect opportunity for NATO by proxy to get involved and over throw the current regime there...


Well, considered the Belarusian had swapped their armour with Russian troop. 

It really would have to be extremely stupid to try to invade Ukraine. Plus, they don't really have enough troop anyway, the latest intel suggest they have around 20,000 in Ukrainian border, Ukraine have 8 Brigades in that border, or 40,000 men.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Cause of th crash seems to be Engine failure 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582040874111840261

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BHAN85

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Pilot error caused by shortages most likely. The Russian sends sailors and airmen to fight in a pointless ground war



It's a big "error" crashing in a residential building.

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## Stryker1982

jhungary said:


> 1.) Heat Signature is going to be a problem, because you are talking about temperature in contrast to the sky. Which depends on altitude, it's range between 10-25 degree C, a 2 strokes engine can warm up to at least 50 degree C, that's a very big contrast.


I am aware, I don't know exactly at what temp the engine would be during flight but what is based on empirical evidence, the Manpad team guarding the Ukrenergo building completely missed, and failed to acquire the target. It had several minutes to do it. 

We already have the IR signature of the drone seen on camera, and it is very small. This is a still from a Shahed UAS strike on a UKR position which slightly missed and hit the center of the road, but probably was good enough to damage the vehicle.







jhungary said:


> 2.) You aren't answering my question. I asked "Did Shahed 136 have counter measure". I.E. Chaff, Flare, Electronic Countermeasure. Not anti-Jamming device.


No, this is too small for these systems to be integrated, maybe in a later larger design or never. It doesn't need flare/chaff which such a low signature it already has. Adding any high end electronics (even if it is available) is not cheap and defeats the purpose of a mass producible cheap system.


jhungary said:


> 3.) This is not about open source, this is about physical attribute, I mean, unless Iran follow some sort of special physics which the Chinese here usually brag about, if you don't have optics onboard, you can't guide the drone passively on target. Which mean either it will become Fire and Forget, or predetermined waypoint, and the only thing you can change the way point for course adjustment is as if you have eyes on your drones from launch to on target. That's what the optical system for. And if you don't have it, you will need a set of physical eyes on target.


I feel like you just want to argue for the sake of arguing, where did I disagree with anything you said here? These are the limitations I also stated. 


jhungary said:


> Which again, defeat the purpose of launching a suicide drone to begin with, I don't know how or why Iran want to use loitering munition, but if I have to have a spotter on ground or in the air, then why I don't just strike that target with that asset? This is not about open source, this is about how drone was used.


What I said about open source has nothing to do with this. The word open source is meant to describe the physical attributes. Not the doctrine behind the usage. 

I already explained this. Because trying to use a UCAV to interdict targets in this airspace is a guaranteed loss of the asset. Lets be realistic a UCAV can't survive long in this war if it acts in a combat role


jhungary said:


> The very reason to use suicide drone is you don't want to risk your asset on high risk A2/AD laden area, so you use loitering munition, did it not defeat the purpose if you require a set of eyes on target to do course correction if you want to hit your target accurately??


This is true, but the asset that acts as the eyes is far from the danger zone and has low risk. Considering how little aviation is used here, expect that TB2 UAVs for example are far back supporting recon.

Anything well beyond the front is pre-programmed. My only question is how well it can navigate and it does seem to have a decent CEP.


----------



## BHAN85

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Cause of th crash seems to be Engine failure
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582040874111840261


It's hard to believe how the pilot can't at least avoid the building.

If the pilot is alive, he deserves jail.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Well, considered the Belarusian had swapped their armour with Russian troop.
> 
> It really would have to be extremely stupid to try to invade Ukraine. Plus, they don't really have enough troop anyway, the latest intel suggest they have around 20,000 in Ukrainian border, Ukraine have 8 Brigades in that border, or 40,000 men.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581916278025261056


BHAN85 said:


> It's hard to believe how the pilot can't at least avoid the building.
> 
> If the pilot is alive, he deserves jail.


Rusky pilots ain't exactly up to NATO standard putting it politely.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## jhungary

Stryker1982 said:


> I am aware, I don't know exactly at what temp the engine would be during flight but what is based on empirical evidence, the Manpad team guarding the Ukrenergo building completely missed, and failed to acquire the target. It had several minutes to do it.
> 
> We already have the IR signature of the drone seen on camera, and it is very small. This is a still from a Shahed UAS strike on a UKR position which slightly missed and hit the center of the road, but probably was good enough to damage the vehicle.
> View attachment 887354



It still depends on what type of sensor you use to pick up that drone. A lot of IR sensor is very sensitive, especially the heat seeking one, just because it appear to be a small dot on a infrared cam (which no reference to the resolution) it does not mean it cannot be picked up, or at least hard to pick up.



Stryker1982 said:


> No, this is too small for these systems to be integrated, maybe in a later larger design or never. It doesn't need flare/chaff which such a low signature it already has. Adding any high end electronics (even if it is available) is not cheap and defeats the purpose of a mass producible cheap system.



Hence my point, once you were targeted, you can't run, you can't maneuver, you can't throw decoy, that's almost a guarantee kill



Stryker1982 said:


> I feel like you just want to argue for the sake of arguing, where did I disagree with anything you said here? These are the limitations I also stated.



I don't think I said you disagree with me, I am just reiterating my position. 



Stryker1982 said:


> What I said about open source has nothing to do with this. The word open source is meant to describe the physical attributes. Not the doctrine behind the usage.
> 
> I already explained this. Because trying to use a UCAV to interdict targets in this airspace is a guaranteed loss of the asset. Lets be realistic a UCAV can't survive long in this war if it acts in a combat role



It actually mean both. Open Source can be doctrinal, In fact, everything can be doctrinal because everything on the battlefield have its own say about the battle. 

On the other hand, the entire thesis of drone warfare is cost effectiveness. That's why you use a $30,000 drone instead of a multi-million dollars fighter jet for your mission. But that have a limit when it hit the ceiling of its efficiency. 



Stryker1982 said:


> This is true, but the asset that acts as the eyes is far from the danger zone and has low risk. Considering how little aviation is used here, expect that TB2 UAVs for example are far back supporting recon.
> 
> Anything well beyond the front is pre-programmed. My only question is how well it can navigate and it does seem to have a decent CEP.


How do you reckon that? In fact, I would argue that asset is going to be more risk than the drone, because if I know you are using this accurately, which mean there are going to be spotting involved, That mean I will do all I can to seek ut and destroy that spotter. And I know you can't be "far" from danger zone because you need first hand intel to guide the drone in. 

TB-2 is not at similar to loitering munition, they don't need that much support to guide their munition in, because TB-2 itself is a ISTAR asset. Which mean if you can stop the TB-2, you will stop the strike, which mean the question will become "Can you stop the TB-2"

Bear in mind, any asset you use to guide the loitering munition in is going to cost multiple fold of the loitering munition itself, again, it depends on whether or not you can bring it down. At this moment. the reason why Shahed drone weren't effectively intercepted is because Ukrainian don't have a vast functioning anti-air system like NATO did, that would depends on whether or not NATO would arm Ukraine with respect to their AA system, if that does, than it will negate the impact of those drone cost.


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## Shawnee

Saudis and Ukrainians did not have enough of AD

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## Ali_Baba

Link contains video of the actual hit on the building and burning plane flying across skyline ..










Aircraft crashes into residential building in Russian city near Crimea


The Su-34 bomber was on a training flight when it malfunctioned and ploughed into the block of flats in Yeysk, a resort city on the Sea of Azov in the Krasnodar region near Crimea.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Putin faces Chechen civil war after rebels attack Kadyrov's militia in 'massive' shootout​








Putin faces Chechen civil war after rebels attack Kadyrov's militia


The rebels opened fire on the Kadyrovites with automatic weapons and grenade launchers, before legging it.




www.express.co.uk

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## beast89



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Stryker1982

jhungary said:


> It still depends on what type of sensor you use to pick up that drone. A lot of IR sensor is very sensitive, especially the heat seeking one, just because it appear to be a small dot on a infrared cam (which no reference to the resolution) it does not mean it cannot be picked up, or at least hard to pick up.


Fair point. I will concede, that this a low-end sensor that is observing considering its point of origin


jhungary said:


> Hence my point, once you were targeted, you can't run, you can't maneuver, you can't throw decoy, that's almost a guarantee kill


Which would be fine, these assets are not worth providing high level protection like this. I reckon if Iran makes a micro-turboject engine version, it would be worth adding some countermeasures. But this may be too expensive and defeats the purpose of cheap and mass producible. 


jhungary said:


> I don't think I said you disagree with me, I am just reiterating my position.
> 
> 
> 
> It actually mean both. Open Source can be doctrinal, In fact, everything can be doctrinal because everything on the battlefield have its own say about the battle.
> 
> On the other hand, the entire thesis of drone warfare is cost effectiveness. That's why you use a $30,000 drone instead of a multi-million dollars fighter jet for your mission. But that have a limit when it hit the ceiling of its efficiency.


We are stuck in a position that the Iranian AF is completely insufficient for basically most things. And it will likely remain that way. Nothing will beat an F-16 in terms of efficiency with 16 small bombs, but with these limitations their is really no choice but to adapt or die.


jhungary said:


> How do you reckon that? In fact, I would argue that asset is going to be more risk than the drone, because if I know you are using this accurately, which mean there are going to be spotting involved, That mean I will do all I can to seek ut and destroy that spotter. And I know you can't be "far" from danger zone because you need first hand intel to guide the drone in.


I suppose this really comes down to what your opponent is capable of, Is Ukraine currently capable of intercepting the asset deeper inside enemy lines? Maybe MANPADS from Spec Ops forces can locate them? I don't think with Ukrainians current abilities they could do it very easily. Enemy aircraft may be able to engage it from long ranges hypothetically but is Ukraine capable of that right now? etc...

Hence I think the strategy works depending on your opponent, and it is not viable as an overall strategy for all opponents without serious degradation of your opponents air power.



jhungary said:


> TB-2 is not at similar to loitering munition, they don't need that much support to guide their munition in, because TB-2 itself is a ISTAR asset. Which mean if you can stop the TB-2, you will stop the strike, which mean the question will become "Can you stop the TB-2"


I didn't mean to make the distinction to loitering munition, just using TB2 as an example of a long range recon & combat asset that can monitor the front with low risk.


jhungary said:


> Bear in mind, any asset you use to guide the loitering munition in is going to cost multiple fold of the loitering munition itself, again, it depends on whether or not you can bring it down. At this moment. the reason why Shahed drone weren't effectively intercepted is because Ukrainian don't have a vast functioning anti-air system like NATO did, that would depends on whether or not NATO would arm Ukraine with respect to their AA system, if that does, than it will negate the impact of those drone cost.


If Russia uses it as a terror weapon (which can also play the role well), then I think NATO will react to it, and send what they need. Seems like a apartment building was hit, either their was navigational issues or deliberate, can't tell.

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## dbc

jhungary said:


> 1.) Heat Signature is going to be a problem, because you are talking about temperature in contrast to the sky. Which depends on altitude, it's range between 10-25 degree C, a 2 strokes engine can warm up to at least 50 degree C, that's a very big contrast.
> 
> You may be able to mask the heat signature if that is terrain hugging drone, but that would mean you need autonomous guidance system, which mean the moment it shoots up, that engine will get pick up like a hot rock in freezer.




These flying tuk-tuks are easily tracked even against a hot desert in the background.

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## Stryker1982

dbc said:


> These flying tuk-tuks are easily tracked even against a hot desert in the background.


This is a Qasef-2-K, which is a commercially made UAS made in Yemen with parts from Ali Express. You're a smart guy, not sure why you are comparing two different models together.

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## dbc

Dariush the Great said:


> The US can kick out regime officials and their children who are grazing on the freedom of the US despite the ''death to USA'' slogans by their daddies back home.



This is a surprise, I know Chinese and Russian princelings love living in the US. I didn't think Iranians were similarly inclined.



Stryker1982 said:


> This is a Qasef-2-K, which is a commercially made UAS made in Yemen with parts from Ali Express. You're a smart guy, not sure why you are comparing two different models together.



does it matter? the engine is the same or similar. If you notice the IR sensor has no problem tracking the hot engine.


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## BHAN85

Stryker1982 said:


> This is a Qasef-2-K, which is a commercially made UAS made in Yemen with parts from Ali Express. You're a smart guy, not sure why you are comparing two different models together.


The Iranian Shahed-136 used in Ukraine, its engine can be bought in aliexpress too.

A flying crap too, but so cheap that it works.

If you need more money to shoot down a flying crap than in build that crap, you're already lost.


----------



## Ali_Baba

US says nations and firms working with Iran's drone program face sanctions​








At least four dead after Russian bomber crashes into block of flats


At least four people are reported to have died with others still missing after one of Russia's warplanes crashed into an apartment building in the southern Russian city of Yeysk.




www.telegraph.co.uk





The United States has warned it would take action against companies and nations working with Iran's drone program after Russia used the imports for deadly kamikaze strikes in Kyiv.
"Anyone doing business with Iran that could have any link to UAVs or ballistic missile developments or the flow of arms from Iran to Russia should be very careful and do their due diligence - the US will not hesitate to use sanctions or take actions against perpetrators," State Department spokesman Vedant Patel told reporters.

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## Stryker1982

dbc said:


> This is a surprise, I know Chinese and Russian princelings love living in the US. I didn't think Iranians were similarly inclined.


Yes lol, Their are too many, and your country should kick them out.


dbc said:


> does it matter? the engine is the same or similar. If you notice the IR sensor has no problem tracking the hot engine.


Actually made a mistake, Qasef-2-K has 4 wings, this has 2, not sure what this is.


----------



## jhungary

Stryker1982 said:


> I suppose this really comes down to what your opponent is capable of, Is Ukraine currently capable of intercepting the asset deeper inside enemy lines? Maybe MANPADS from Spec Ops forces can locate them? I don't think with Ukrainians current abilities they could do it very easily. Enemy aircraft may be able to engage it from long ranges hypothetically but is Ukraine capable of that right now? etc...



It's a lot more complicated than you thought. 

You are talking about a kill chain that involve 1.) Spotting the Drone 2.) Able to Track the Heading and 3.) Have enough time to notify local anti-air defence to shoot it down. Basically mean you need to know where it is, where it is going and have asset in the area to shoot it down. Lacking one of those, and that kill chain will be broken.

Let's not say a drone, even at normal strike activities, there exist a time delay from early warning to actually fire the weapon. Making it hard to intercept the target. It's all depends on whether or not you have anti-air asset in the area, that's depends largely on luck and how you pick your target to strike.

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## Shawnee

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 887365
> 
> 
> Saudis and Ukrainians did not have enough of AD




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582066409219112960
More sanctions
More AD ASAP


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

As Russian intelligence agents have confided in him: „[Estonians’] advantage is that you’re all levelheaded.“ Dressen also hoped that Toots would show emotion during his interrogation, and lost his footing when it failed to come to fruition. _They_ don’t know how to keep it in check. Or they simply can’t. _They_ become emotional, testy, irate, confused. At some point, Russian agents lose control and are unable to do anything about it – it's just the way things are. As they admit: „You can’t beat Russia with reason.“



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581991421376012288


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## Dariush the Great

dbc said:


> This is a surprise, I know Chinese and Russian princelings love living in the US. I didn't think Iranians were similarly inclined.
> 
> 
> 
> does it matter? the engine is the same or similar. If you notice the IR sensor has no problem tracking the hot engine.


Well then you Americans are very naïve and have been fooled by these double faced mofo mullahs

official figures put it at 4000 but realistically it is even more than 10.000 in the US alone. You are allowing daddy and mommy shout death to US and engage in anti US activities but allow their relatives to enjoy relaxed lives with stolen Iranian money.

Like i said, either you are very naïve or you are extremely smart to prolong the lives of these subhuman mullahs so you can sell your overpriced equipment to stupid states such as Saudi arabia and turn our region into a ticking time bomb.


----------



## Shawnee

Iran must pay the price of this drone humiliation by sending agents who will change the direction of their head cover protests to ablazing stores.

Iran will pay it through sanctions if there is any left.

For now, let’s make a headline of killing 49 Iranian instructors in Syria and Kherson.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> Blow Up Russian Trains, Liberate The Coast: Ukraine Has A Plan To Win The War​
> View attachment 887084
> 
> A Ukrainian 2S7 howitzer.
> 
> UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY PHOTO
> 
> It’s going to take engineers nine months to finish repairs to the Kerch Bridge after Ukrainian forces blew up the strategic span, connecting the Russian-occupied Crimean Peninsula to Russia proper, on October 7.
> 
> 
> According to AFP, the Kremlin ordered repairs to the $4 billion, 11-mile span to wrap up in July 2023. Until then, Russian forces in southern Ukraine will depend on just one overland supply route—a rail line through eastern Ukraine that’s well within range of Ukrainian artillery.
> 
> 
> All that is to say, the Russian field armies in and around the port of Kherson on Ukraine’s temporarily occupied Black Sea coast are in trouble. They were struggling with resupply before the Ukrainians blew up the Kerch Bridge, twisting its twin rail lines and dropping one of its two road lanes. Now the struggle will get worse.
> 
> 
> The partial destruction of the Kerch Bridge “presents the Russians with a significant problem,” tweeted Mick Ryan, a retired Australian army general.
> 
> 
> That sets conditions for what some analysts say is Ukraine’s plan to end the eight-month-old war. As Russian forces fray in the south, gaps could form in their defensive lines stretching from just north of Kherson 250 miles west to the terrain between occupied Mariupol and free Zaporizhzhia.
> 
> 
> If Ukrainian brigades can exploit those gaps and liberate the ruins of Mariupol, they will “sever the Russian armed forces in Ukraine into two pieces that cannot mutually reinforce,” according to Mike Martin, a fellow at the Department of War Studies at King’s College in London—and almost entirely isolate the Russians in the south.
> 
> After that, “you’re going to see a general collapse of the [Russian armed forces], a change of power in Moscow and a deal that involves Crimea being handed over,” Martin added. “Or, the Ukrainians will just take it.”
> 
> 
> The Russian army traditionally relies on trains to move the bulk of its supplies. That explains why the army never had the big, robust truck units that, say, the U.S. Army takes for granted. The Russians’ truck shortage got a lot worse this spring when the Ukrainians blew up hundreds of them trying to resupply Russian battalions rolling toward Kyiv on a doomed mission to capture the Ukrainian capital.
> 
> The Kremlin’s problem, now that Ukraine has cut the main rail line into Kherson Oblast, is that the only other rail line connecting Russia to a railhead anywhere near Kherson, terminating in occupied Melitopol, lies just a few miles south of the front line near Volnovakha, north of Mariupol. Ukrainian troops could hit the line, and any trains rolling along it, with 120-millimeter mortars, 155-millimeter howitzers and High-Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems.
> 
> Realistically, Russian commanders have few options short of surrender. They can feed small quantities of supplies into Kherson by truck, by boat and by plane—and hope that the garrison in the south can hold out until July, when the Kerch Bridge might fully reopen.
> 
> The problem is that Ukrainian commanders know they’ve got nine months to take advantage of Russia’s logistical problem. Nine months to add a third counteroffensive to the counteroffensivesthey launched in the east and south six weeks ago. That third attack almost certainly will target Mariupol in order to cut in two the Russian army and starve half of it.
> 
> With the Russians on the defensive and the Kremlin’s desperate nationwide mobilization mostly feeding hapless old men into a war they’re not equipped to fight, the momentum clearly lies with the Ukrainians. They get to choose when to launch a third counteroffensive. Russian sources already are anticipating the possible attack.
> 
> It’s likely only the coming winter can dictate terms. The first few months of Ukraine’s winter are wet and muddy. The last few are cold and icy. The former are hostile to ground combat. The latter, somewhat less so. If Kyiv aims to end the war on its terms before, say, January, it might need to make its move soon.
> 
> 
> The Russian army traditionally relies on trains to move the bulk of its supplies. That explains why the army never had the big, robust truck units that, say, the U.S. Army takes for granted. The Russians’ truck shortage got a lot worse this spring when the Ukrainians blew up hundreds of them trying to resupply Russian battalions rolling toward Kyiv on a doomed mission to capture the Ukrainian capital.
> 
> The Kremlin’s problem, now that Ukraine has cut the main rail line into Kherson Oblast, is that the only other rail line connecting Russia to a railhead anywhere near Kherson, terminating in occupied Melitopol, lies just a few miles south of the front line near Volnovakha, north of Mariupol. Ukrainian troops could hit the line, and any trains rolling along it, with 120-millimeter mortars, 155-millimeter howitzers and High-Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems.
> 
> Realistically, Russian commanders have few options short of surrender. They can feed small quantities of supplies into Kherson by truck, by boat and by plane—and hope that the garrison in the south can hold out until July, when the Kerch Bridge might fully reopen.
> 
> The problem is that Ukrainian commanders know they’ve got nine months to take advantage of Russia’s logistical problem. Nine months to add a third counteroffensive to the counteroffensivesthey launched in the east and south six weeks ago. That third attack almost certainly will target Mariupol in order to cut in two the Russian army and starve half of it.
> 
> With the Russians on the defensive and the Kremlin’s desperate nationwide mobilization mostly feeding hapless old men into a war they’re not equipped to fight, the momentum clearly lies with the Ukrainians. They get to choose when to launch a third counteroffensive. Russian sources already are anticipating the possible attack.
> 
> It’s likely only the coming winter can dictate terms. The first few months of Ukraine’s winter are wet and muddy. The last few are cold and icy. The former are hostile to ground combat. The latter, somewhat less so. If Kyiv aims to end the war on its terms before, say, January, it might need to make its move soon.
> 
> 
> Follow me on Twitter. Check out my website or some of my other work here. Send me a secure tip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Axe









This nigga is daydreaming.



Shawnee said:


> Iran must pay the price of this drone humiliation by sending agents who will change the direction of their head cover protests to ablazing stores.
> 
> Iran will pay it through sanctions if there is any left.
> 
> For now, let’s make a headline of killing 49 Iranian instructors in Syria and Kherson.



Where the fvck do you guys come from? Sleepy Joe is dreaming of snatching Pakistani nukes. What do you say?



Ali_Baba said:


> US says nations and firms working with Iran's drone program face sanctions​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least four dead after Russian bomber crashes into block of flats
> 
> 
> At least four people are reported to have died with others still missing after one of Russia's warplanes crashed into an apartment building in the southern Russian city of Yeysk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States has warned it would take action against companies and nations working with Iran's drone program after Russia used the imports for deadly kamikaze strikes in Kyiv.
> "Anyone doing business with Iran that could have any link to UAVs or ballistic missile developments or the flow of arms from Iran to Russia should be very careful and do their due diligence - the US will not hesitate to use sanctions or take actions against perpetrators," State Department spokesman Vedant Patel told reporters.



Isn't Iran producing these drones largely domestically?



dbc said:


> This is a surprise, I know Chinese and Russian princelings love living in the US. I didn't think Iranians were similarly inclined.
> 
> 
> 
> does it matter? the engine is the same or similar. If you notice the IR sensor has no problem tracking the hot engine.



LOL Hey cowboy. Is it the end of Pakistan as you predicted in the sleepy Joe thread? You gonna bully and snatch Pakistani nukes? Here you are picking fights with Russia, Iran and China. You sure do have a list of hate countries, don't you?

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## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581684836506357761

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## dbc

Dalit said:


> LOL Hey cowboy. Is it the end of Pakistan as you predicted in the sleepy Joey thread? Here you are picking fights with Russia and China. You sure do have a list of hate countries, don't you?



If Pakistan ends it is from self inflicted wounds. It has nothing to do with the US.
As for Russia it's following Pakistan into the abyss. Chairman Xi if he sticks around for another term of 'rinse repeat' lock downs is likely to sink China.

For me Ukraine is the underdog fighting for it's very survival - I respect that, its more than you can say for other nations. If Ukraine rolled over and the mere sight of washing machine stealing drunk Russian conscripts - I'd have no sympathy for them.
But as things stand its a fight between David and Goliath.

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## Dalit

dbc said:


> If Pakistan ends it is from self inflicted wounds. It has nothing to do with the US.
> As for Russia it's following Pakistan into the abyss. Chairman Xi if he sticks around for another term of 'rinse repeat' lock downs is likely to sink China.
> 
> For me Ukraine is the underdog fighting for it's very survival - I respect that, its more than you can say for other nations. If Ukraine rolled over and the mere sight of washing machine stealing drunk Russian conscripts - I'd have no sympathy for them.
> But as things stand its a fight between David and Goliath.



We will see American. We will see. It is an utter joy to see you so helpless. LOL David versus Goliath.

It is clear. Pakistan, Iran, China and Russia are on your hate list. You can keep dreaming. Neither can papa America snatch Pakistani nukes. Nor won't Pakistan or any country on your hate list disappear. This is just wishful thinking by an arrogant 'Murican. After Afghanistan, Ukraine is another major loss for papa America. You are being challanged in broad daylight and I am loving it.

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## Ali_Baba

Iran breaching nuclear deal by providing Russia with armed drones, says UK​








Iran breaching nuclear deal by providing Russia with armed drones, says UK


UK joins France in saying apparent drone supply for use in Ukraine leaves Iran in breach of 2015 JCPoA




www.theguardian.com






>> UK joins France in saying apparent drone supply for use in Ukraine leaves Iran in breach of 2015 JCPoA

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## BHAN85

beast89 said:


> View attachment 887367



In a longterm, Russia will be the enemy of West Europe. With or without Ukraine war. Someday their fossil energy resources will run out and they will seek war to sustain its non-existant economy.

Isolate Russia is not Europe helping Ukraine, it's Europe helping itself thinking in a longerm.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582075808071311364

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582012965154213888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582074609930600448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582007669300563968

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## 925boy

Viet said:


> Christmas is coming.


BUt for Ukranian army, it winter that is coming.


Viet said:


> They hope Santa Claus will bring gift.


But they need NATO to supply at least high xx,xxx of fully suited winter gear for soldiers


Viet said:


> Warm cloth, warm shoes to survive in trenches far from home.


BUt NATO doesnt have enough to supply Ukraine, and Ukraine cant produce them, look at Lithuania:






https://orientalreview.org/2022/10/...the-nature-of-military-operations-in-ukraine/

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## The SC

Very interesting facts and analysis..

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## Shawnee

Shahed drone hit the lowest part of the fuel storage where pressure is the highest.

Same happened in Saudi attacks.

This drone has accurate with cm.

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> This is one of them rare situation where going to war is a good thing actually. The belarusian army are pretty much non existent and their populace are pretty much anti war in the Ukraine.


You never know. Lukanshenko probably wants a piece of Ukraine. He believes country of other people is like a pizza.


----------



## The SC

Urgent | A senior Pentagon official: We cannot confirm that the drones used by Russia to target Kyiv were Iranian-made

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## dbc

Dariush the Great said:


> Like i said, either you are very naïve or you are extremely smart to prolong the lives of these subhuman mullahs so you can sell your overpriced equipment to stupid states such as Saudi arabia and turn our region into a ticking time bomb.


we play the cards we are dealt. I actually like Iranian people, I have fond memories from visiting Iran in 2003. I was there during the earthquake and volunteered towards relief efforts with a group on Canadian expats. My father shared a company guest house with bachelors so he arranged for me to live with an affectionate Iranian family. I played golf, skied and had an awesome time. My fathers driver was a decorated war veteran with nothing to show for his courage on the battlefield except physical disability and a lifetime of trauma from killing a half dozen people. So all in all, I will be deeply saddened if our two nations ever went to war. Having experienced both sides of the Persian-Arab divide first hand, I don't share the same opinion of the desert dwelling bedouins across the Persian gulf. The rich history, the values, the culture and the fascinating variety of personalities I've met in Iran makes me partial to Iran. 

So it hurts me when I hear Iranians say the things they say here on PDF while they bay for the blood of my fellow Americans. But I'm not naive, I know the fault lies on both sides. I do know perpetuating hostile relations with Iran benefits the US. I have a sneaking suspicion the 'antipathy' is gamed by both sides for mutual benefit. I've said so over the years on PDF.

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## LeGenD

TNT said:


> Putin have not read the situation. He should have taken over these areas back in 2014 when he took crimea. You have to be decisive and quick, he instead took crimea and delayed taking the rest. They had 8 years to arm and prepare while the russian army was doing nothing. Big mistake.
> The other thing that have disappointed and kind of astonished everyone is the russian air force. Its totally useless and have achieved nothing. Remember the fear of S400 before this war, even Pakistan was worried abt indian S400 deal but now, no one cares, ppl know russian systems and way way overrated.


Russian forces were dispatched to Syria in 2015. Russian political focus was on Syria for a while.

Russians did prepare for war with Ukraine with a military buildup and development of supply lines.

But Russians assumed that Zelenskyy is a puppet and lacking in Public support. Him ousting a pro-Russian leader through Presidential elections was a Western conspiracy because some Americans were spotted in the country cheering for him. Lesson is to not draw conclusions about political inclination of a country on these grounds.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582088712426356737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582089419753803776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582089700642549760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582047900439150604

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## dbc

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 887384
> 
> 
> Shahed drone hit the lowest part of the fuel storage where pressure is the highest.
> 
> Same happened in Saudi attacks.
> 
> This drone has accurate with cm.


Nope you're wrong the accuracy is in the nanometers. As a matter of fact the Chinese have decided to drop the idea of acquiring ASML EUV's for sub 5nm nodes and will use Shahed instead.

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## Dalit

dbc said:


> we play the cards we are dealt. I actually like Iranian people, I have fond memories from visiting Iran in 2003. I was there during the earthquake and volunteered towards relief efforts with a group on Canadian expats. My father shared a company guest house with bachelors so he arranged for me to live with an affectionate Iranian family. I played golf, skied and had an awesome time. My fathers driver was a decorated war veteran with nothing to show for his courage on the battlefield except physical disability and a lifetime of trauma from killing a half dozen people. So all in all, I will be deeply saddened if our two nations ever went to war. Having experienced both sides of the Persian-Arab divide first hand, I don't share the same opinion of the desert dwelling bedouins across the Persian gulf. The rich history, the values, the culture and the fascinating variety of personalities I've met in Iran makes me partial to Iran.
> 
> So it hurts me when I hear Iranians say the things they say here on PDF while they bay for the blood of my fellow Americans. But I'm not naive, I know the fault lies on both sides. I do know perpetuating hostile relations with Iran benefits the US. I have a sneaking suspicion the 'antipathy' is gamed by both sides for mutual benefit. I've said so over the years on PDF.



Awww. He cares about Iran. Someone get me a stack of tissue papers. I cannot hold my tears.

@925boy What do you say bro? Should we believe the American?

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## dbc

Dalit said:


> Awww. He cares about Iran. Someone get me a stack of tissue papers.



Gas prices are down you must be cursing the market for failing to delivery the misery you so desperately crave upon your fellow Dutch.

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## Dalit

dbc said:


> Gas prices are down you must be cursing the market for failing to delivery the misery you so desperately crave upon your fellow Dutch.



Did sleepy Joe really mean the dangerous Pakistan comment? What is up with the incohorent nuke thing? You really seem to support sleepy Joe against dangerous Pakistan, don't you?


----------



## dbc

Dalit said:


> Did sleepy Joe really mean the dangerous Pakistan comment? What is up with the incohorent nuke thing? You really seem to support sleepy Joe against dangerous Pakistan, don't you?



Pakistan is inconsequential to the US at this time. You had leverage when we were in Afghanistan - now, its white noise.

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## beast89

jhungary said:


> I don't know what Iran is making, but I am quite certain it will not be money, nor it would be oil and gas either.
> 
> Most likely some defence article, but most definitely not money......


Iran is benefiting from this either way, whilst ukraine depends on the goodwill of a billionaire, European economy can't support Ukraine forever


----------



## Dalit

dbc said:


> Pakistan is inconsequential to the US at this time. You had leverage when we were in Afghanistan - now, its white noise.



Is that why sleepy Joe had to overthrow a sitting government and pass a 400+ million F-16 package despite Indian protests? Don't give me this BS about Pakistan being irrelevant. Sleepy Joe couldn't even forget Pakistan at some Democratic convention LOL You guys couldn't sleep for days when Imran Khan visited Russia. Your ambassadors had to collectively write a letter to plead to Bajwa.

Just have a look in the mirror, American. You sign into a Pakistani defence forum and have the nerve to claim you don't care about Pakistan. This isn't papa Joe's forum.

You still haven't answered the question. Is papa America going to snatch Pakistani nukes? Pakistani nukes keep sleepy Joe up at night. Answer the question.

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> BUt for Ukranian army, it winter that is coming.
> 
> But they need NATO to supply at least high xx,xxx of fully suited winter gear for soldiers
> 
> BUt NATO doesnt have enough to supply Ukraine, and Ukraine cant produce them, look at Lithuania:
> 
> View attachment 887382
> 
> 
> https://orientalreview.org/2022/10/...the-nature-of-military-operations-in-ukraine/


Canada alone agreed to send 500.000 pieces of winter gear (parkas, pants, boots). That will probably equip 100.000 soldiers. I think the ukrainians are going to be alright.

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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> Canada alone agreed to send 500.000 pieces of winter gear (parkas, pants, boots). That will probably equip 100.000 soldiers. I think the ukrainians are going to be alright.



Ukrainian front line soldiers are cannon fodder.

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## dbc

Dalit said:


> Is that why sleepy Joe had to overthrow a sitting government and pass a 400+ million F-16 package despite Indian protests? Don't give me this BS about Pakistan being irrelivant. Sleepy Joe couldn't even forget Pakistan at some Democratic convention LOL You guys couldn't sleep for days when Imran Khan visited Russia. Your ambassadors had to collectively write a letter to plead.
> 
> Just have a look in the mirror, American. You sign into a Pakistani defence forum and have the nerve to claim you don't care about Pakistan. This isn't papa Joe's forum.
> 
> You still haven't answered the question. Is papa America going ro snatch Pakistani nukes?



did you ever stop to consider that your COAS upon his week long visit to the US dropped the 'N' bomb at the Pentagon. I wouldn't put it past him to use nuclear blackmail for a few million dollars of aid. Something like give me money or Pakistan will destabilise and terrorists will steal my nukes. Pakistan has always been a 'client state' to the highest bidder. Unfortunately no one showed up to the latest auction.

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## Dalit

dbc said:


> did you ever stop to consider that your COAS upon his week long visit to the US dropped the 'N' bomb at the Pentagon. I wouldn't put it past him to use nuclear blackmail for a few million dollars of aid. Something like give me money or Pakistan will destabilise and terrorists will steal my nukes. Pakistan has always been a 'client state' to the highest bidder. Unfortunately no one showed up to the latest auction.



@waz You reading this bro? The American think tank thinks that Bajwa used the nukes as a bargaining chip to earn some aid money for Pakistan LOL An American snake who hates Pakistan 24/7 has been promoted as a think tank on a Pakistani defence forum. I knew we had a bunch of Pakistan haters roaming on this forum, but this is just extraordinary.

Hey American, why did sleepy Joe provide F-16 package to Pakistan? Did Bajwa put a gun to sleepy Joe's head? Why did the Americans put a medal on Bajwa's chest? Was it because Bajwa used the nuke threat? Answer the questions.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581728987780616192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582007225589334018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582048207420260364

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581988211449950209

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## A.P. Richelieu

LeGenD said:


> Russian forces were dispatched to Syria in 2015. Russian political focus was on Syria for a while.
> 
> Russians did prepare for war with Ukraine with a military buildup and development of supply lines.
> 
> But Russians assumed that Zelenskyy is a puppet and lacking in Public support. Him ousting a pro-Russian leader through Presidential elections was a Western conspiracy because some Americans were spotted in the country cheering for him. Lesson is to not draw conclusions about political inclination of a country on these grounds.


It was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petro_Poroshenko who became president in 2014. Zelenskyy only became president in 2019.

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## Dalit

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581728987780616192
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582007225589334018
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582048207420260364
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581988211449950209



This is just magnificent. A shaking Stoltenberg LOL

This is just delicious. Who knew that the Western powers would look on as weak spectators when Russia would pounce on Ukraine to rid the Nazis? This is the same West that gangs up against weaker opponents. From Iraq to Afghanistan. From Islamic terrorism to Russia/China phobia. Today it is providing some low level weapons and looking on. What a transformation.

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## PakFactor

Dalit said:


> @waz You reading this bro? The American think tank thinks that Bajwa used the nukes as a bargaining chip to earn some aid money for Pakistan LOL An American snake who hates Pakistan 24/7 has been promoted as a think tank on a Pakistani defence forum. I knew we had a bunch of Pakistan haters roaming on this forum, but this is just extraordinary.
> 
> Hey American, why did sleepy Joe provide F-16 package to Pakistan? Did Bajwa put a gun to sleepy Joe's head? Why did the Americans put a medal on Bajwa's chest? Was it because Bajwa used the nuke threat? Answer the questions.



You need to throw a small bone at a dog to make him (Pakistan) happy.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582115008195928064
Huge amount of losses added today.

Russian losses now nearly 7,400

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## dbc

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Pilot error caused by shortages most likely. The Russian sends sailors and airmen to fight in a pointless ground war


it was shot down by a rogue Shahed.

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## Englishman

Perhaps now zelenski understands what gazans feal on a daily basis?

Bad isn't it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582010132913065985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582074333379563520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581989168481468416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582002605990952960


----------



## jhungary

beast89 said:


> Iran is benefiting from this either way, whilst ukraine depends on the goodwill of a billionaire, European economy can't support Ukraine forever


lol, you think 40 billion a year is a lot of money the EU and US cannot dump in Ukraine?

Well, compare this to the ill-fated adventure in Afghanistan, that amount is literally peanuts....

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## jhungary

Englishman said:


> Perhaps now zelenski understands what gazans feal on a daily basis?
> 
> Bad isn't it.


You say this like Russia did not deliberately attack Ukrainian civil infrastructure in the last 6 months of war before September. 

Dude, he knows what Gazans (Or strictly Palestinian) felt like probably since day 1 of war. And just because he is jewish that does not mean he agree with what Israeli did.

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## Stryker1982

Being seeing some Ukrainian military analysts are saying, Russians replaced the native guidance system in Shaheeds with their GLONASS. Can't confirm this myself. Ukrainians would know when analyzing some of the malfunctioned units.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Dariush the Great said:


> Well then you Americans are very naïve and have been fooled by these double faced mofo mullahs
> 
> official figures put it at 4000 but realistically it is even more than 10.000 in the US alone. You are allowing daddy and mommy shout death to US and engage in anti US activities but allow their relatives to enjoy relaxed lives with stolen Iranian money.
> 
> Like i said, either you are very naïve or you are extremely smart to prolong the lives of these subhuman mullahs so you can sell your overpriced equipment to stupid states such as Saudi arabia and turn our region into a ticking time bomb.


It’s called a democracy, you don’t just kick people out for disagreeing 
Should try it sometime works wonders for one’s economy



Dalit said:


> We will see American. We will see. It is an utter joy to see you so helpless. LOL David versus Goliath.
> 
> It is clear. Pakistan, Iran, China and Russia are on your hate list. You can keep dreaming. Neither can papa America snatch Pakistani nukes. Nor won't Pakistan or any country on your hate list disappear. This is just wishful thinking by an arrogant 'Murican. After Afghanistan, Ukraine is another major loss for papa America. You are being challanged in broad daylight and I am loving it.


Wow you’re way off the topic of this thread, thanks for your contributions 🥱

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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> You say this like Russia did not deliberately attack Ukrainian civil infrastructure in the last 6 months of war before September.
> 
> Dude, he knows what Gazans (Or strictly Palestinian) felt like probably since day 1 of war. *And just because he is jewish that does not mean he agree with what Israeli did.*



After this war, if that question is posed to him, he would agree with Israeli tactics under the guise that "they are protecting their territorial integrity from terrorists." We've seen that drama before.

But that's another topic; screw his religion, and let's watch the war.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Stryker1982 said:


> Personally I was against supporting Russia due to several years of getting screwed over by them. I don’t make these decisions.
> 
> If you want to know how decisions are made, frankly speaking the leadership in Iran has no geostrategic benefit here other than ensuring Russia does not break its back in Ukraine. Iran does not want NATO to break Russia completely at which point it’s focus would probably go to Iran. In many ways, Iran wants NATO to stay busy here. And since Nato is the enemy, it becomes justified.
> 
> Since Iran is under heavy sanctions from Europe, it has no incentive not to support Russia for monetary gain. For Iran to pass up the monetary gain that it needs to the benefit of Europe which sanctions it doesn’t seem logical. These decisions start to make more sense under these conditions.
> 
> Again, not my way of thinking




I think Ukraine provides a perfect opportunity for Iran to test its drones and other strategic weapons. It would definitely allow Iranian engineers and military leaders to study the performance of their weapons vis-a-vis the capability of weapons and systems provided to Ukraine by Western powers.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582162004705693696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581917013165109248

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582153447079497728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582156044129931268

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## jhungary

@Oldman1 

Just gone back to some old cable and found this






US senators request to send to Ukraine Land-Based C-RAM Phalanx & Avenger air defense systems | Defense News July 2022 Global Security army industry | Defense Security global news industry army year 2022 | Archive News year


US senators ask Secretary of Defense to send Avenger air defense systems to Ukraine




www.armyrecognition.com





I hope the senate are really looking to this again, that senator who purpose this probably have a good insight on the entire situation.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581994777859747840

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## jhungary

lol Shoigu ex-girl friend just revealed Shoigu Daughter has Lithuanian citizenship in an immigration court with her own court case suing to reverse the cancellation of her own temporary residence permit.



'Ex-Girlfriend' of Russia Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu Sues to Stay in EU

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## Han Patriot

Stryker1982 said:


> Being seeing some Ukrainian military analysts are saying, Russians replaced the native guidance system in Shaheeds with their GLONASS. Can't confirm this myself. Ukrainians would know when analyzing some of the malfunctioned units.


I can bet with you, they are having some beidou chips too. Glonass is not complete, the only complete system is gps and beidou.


----------



## jhungary

Lol, Don't piss off France 24 with your "fake expose"






See how France 24 debunk Russian "fake" theory


----------



## Han Patriot

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581994777859747840


Fcking serious? They are shooting those toy drones with rifles now? What if they attack at night? Who would've thought a 20k drone with a 20pound explosive can do so much damage, if they mass produce in China, i bet the price can be lowered by half.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582010132913065985
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582074333379563520
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581989168481468416
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582002605990952960


So bayrakthars are no more the wunderwaffen? Hahaahahha. Fucking toy drones strapped with explosives massed produced paired with dual glonass/beidou receivers. Lolololol.

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## Dalit

PakFactor said:


> You need to throw a small bone at a dog to make him (Pakistan) happy.



Bajwa is an American hubby, but the Americans won't admit.


----------



## Han Patriot

BHAN85 said:


> The Iranian Shahed-136 used in Ukraine, its engine can be bought in aliexpress too.
> 
> A flying crap too, but so cheap that it works.
> 
> If you need more money to shoot down a flying crap than in build that crap, you're already lost.


Thanks to China, parts are so abundant and cheap. Lolol


----------



## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> It’s called a democracy, you don’t just kick people out for disagreeing
> Should try it sometime works wonders for one’s economy
> 
> 
> Wow you’re way off the topic of this thread, thanks for your contributions 🥱



You are too afraid to admit the facts LOL How did you end up on this forum anyway?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581930306713440256

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> I can bet with you, they are having some beidou chips too. Glonass is not complete, the only complete system is gps and beidou.


Glonass doesn't work outside of Russia as evidence by their piss poor bombing early on in the war willing to bet the same with whatever f the Chinese are using.

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Glonass doesn't work outside of Russia as evidence by their piss poor bombing early on in the war willing to bet the same with whatever f the Chinese are using.


Yup I agree, Chinese beidou is not a hyper precision system better than the GPS. MiT review was lying. I am very sure, rest assured, Chinese weapons and Russian weapons can't work, that's why only 20% of Ukraine is occupied. Lolol

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## Dalit

Ukraine looks anxiously towards its northern border, and a fresh influx of Russian troops into Belarus | CNN


The announcement last week by Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko that his country and Russia would form a joint regional force and carry out exercises set off alarm bells in Kyiv.




edition.cnn.com





The prospect of the Belarusian border becoming a passageway for Russian troops would be a nightmare for Kyiv's already stretched forces

Another lucrative entry point for Russian forces.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581989168481468416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582107583619665921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582107589445267457

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> Yup I agree, Chinese beidou is not a hyper precision system better than the GPS. MiT review was lying. I am very sure, rest assured, Chinese weapons and Russian weapons can't work, that's why only 20% of Ukraine is occupied. Lolol


Seeing the rest of the civilized world use GPS & the American used flying blender with pinpoint accuracy to kill Zawahiri me think GPS is still superior to whatever you people use.

18% now the Ukrainian are the one pushing back remember?

Also the West send techs from the 80s-90s to wipe out >50k Russians & 80% of Russian armor column in ukraine. If the Chinese & Russian can't even beat stinger & Javelin what hope you people have exactly?

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Seeing the rest of the civilized world use GPS & the American used flying blender with pinpoint accuracy to kill Zawahiri me think GPS is still superior to whatever you people use.
> 
> 18% now the Ukrainian are the one pushing back remember?
> 
> Also the West send techs from the 80s-90s to wipe out >50k Russians & 80% of Russian armor column in ukraine. If the Chinese & Russian can't even beat stinger & Javelin what hope you people have exactly?


Dude, I just said US stronk, China weak. You don't need to type so much to reassure yourselves mate. Be confident. Lolol

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> Dude, I just said US stronk, China weak. You don't need to type so much to reassure yourselves mate. Be confident. Lolol


Exactly know your place & keep smoking opium 😇

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Exactly know your place & keep smoking opium 😇


Okay, and keep smoking fentanyl. Lolol

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582064054675574784
LOL look at what they have on their kit. A hiking tourniquet. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582134597399490561


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Russian "we are winning" Army. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582091718953795584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582098520143974401

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russian "we are winning" Army.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582091718953795584
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582098520143974401



The Russians are winning.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> The Russians are winning.
> 
> View attachment 887438


Oh look the German are winning also.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> The Russians are winning.
> 
> View attachment 887438



Russia continues to lose territory, has sustained 7,400 armor and equipment losses, and approaching 100K casualties in 8 months of warfare.

Russia has absolutely lost

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## Dalit

Washington bullies Mexico into supporting war against Russia


Mexico’s indictment of Washington for escalating the war in Ukraine for its “own hegemonic interests” is a blow to US and NATO war propaganda.



www.wsws.org





López Obrador stressed, “Do not drag us in. We are not warmongers. We have ties with peoples from all over the world. Our policy is against war and for peace. Our policy is neutrality. No, we are not on the side of any hegemonic power in the world… In this case, we have acted and will continue to act in a neutral manner.”



F-22Raptor said:


> Russia continues to lose territory, has sustained 7,400 armor and equipment losses, and approaching 100K casualties in 8 months of warfare.
> 
> Russia has absolutely lost



It is an absolute joy to see you guys on the defensive.

LOL at Russia continues to lose territory. What have you been smoking?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Oh look the German are winning also.
> View attachment 887440



Dude, Russia just annexed huge parts of Ukraine and all you guys can do is post some irrelevant Twitter feeds LOL Who are you people kidding? Russia is pouncing Ukrainian forces as we speak.

Your own allies are abstaining at UN vote LOL You cannot even convince your allies to support you. Here you are demanding others to support your Ukraine rhetoric.

Look at your Indian allies as an example LOL They are not even in this topic to support you. They are hiding on PDF in other topics LOL

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Washington bullies Mexico into supporting war against Russia
> 
> 
> Mexico’s indictment of Washington for escalating the war in Ukraine for its “own hegemonic interests” is a blow to US and NATO war propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsws.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> López Obrador stressed, “Do not drag us in. We are not warmongers. We have ties with peoples from all over the world. Our policy is against war and for peace. Our policy is neutrality. No, we are not on the side of any hegemonic power in the world… In this case, we have acted and will continue to act in a neutral manner.”
> 
> 
> 
> It is an absolute joy to see you guys on the defensive.
> 
> LOL at Russia continues to lose territory. What have you been smoking?
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, Russia just annexed huge parts of Ukraine and all you guys can do is post some irrelevant Twitter feeds LOL Who are you people kidding? Russia is pouncing Ukrainian forces as we speak.
> 
> Your own allies are abstaining at UN vote LOL You cannot even convince your allies to support you. Here you are demanding others to support your Ukraine rhetoric.
> 
> Look at your Indian allies as an example LOL They are not even in this topic to support you. They are hiding on PDF in other topics LOL



Lost Kyiv and northern battles, lost the entire Kharkiv Oblast, and losing ground in Kherson Oblast. Ukraine has all the momentum

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Lost Kyiv and northern battles, lost the entire Kharkiv Oblast, and losing ground in Kherson Oblast. Ukraine has all the momentum



LOL at Ukraine has the momentum. You have been saying this for months.

Why aren't your allies willing to take your side? Any explanation?

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## _Nabil_

⚡ FLASH #China 🇨🇳 #Chine interrupts its sales from #GNL to #Europe . Bloomberg
China has ordered its state gas importers to stop reselling LNG to energy-starved buyers in #Europe and #Asie to secure its own supply for this winter 🤔


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582014061729878017

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## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> Dude, Russia just annexed huge parts of Ukraine and all you guys can do is post some irrelevant Twitter feeds LOL Who are you people kidding? Russia is pouncing Ukrainian forces as we speak.
> 
> Your own allies are abstaining at UN vote LOL You cannot even convince your allies to support you. Here you are demanding others to support your Ukraine rhetoric.
> 
> Look at your Indian allies as an example LOL They are not even in this topic to support you. They are hiding on PDF in other topics LOL


Can't wait to quote this when the Ukrainian took Kherson. 😁

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## khansaheeb

Dalit said:


> Washington bullies Mexico into supporting war against Russia
> 
> 
> Mexico’s indictment of Washington for escalating the war in Ukraine for its “own hegemonic interests” is a blow to US and NATO war propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsws.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> López Obrador stressed, “Do not drag us in. We are not warmongers. We have ties with peoples from all over the world. Our policy is against war and for peace. Our policy is neutrality. No, we are not on the side of any hegemonic power in the world… In this case, we have acted and will continue to act in a neutral manner.”
> 
> 
> 
> It is an absolute joy to see you guys on the defensive.
> 
> LOL at Russia continues to lose territory. What have you been smoking?
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, Russia just annexed huge parts of Ukraine and all you guys can do is post some irrelevant Twitter feeds LOL Who are you people kidding? Russia is pouncing Ukrainian forces as we speak.
> 
> Your own allies are abstaining at UN vote LOL You cannot even convince your allies to support you. Here you are demanding others to support your Ukraine rhetoric.
> 
> Look at your Indian allies as an example LOL They are not even in this topic to support you. They are hiding on PDF in other topics LOL


Seems like Regime change coming up in Mexico.

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582064054675574784
> LOL look at what they have on their kit. A hiking tourniquet.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582134597399490561


Better then the Russian on this video






I mean they strip them wounded and leave them to die, that's unheard of in any Military. I mean I have expected this happened to some African military, not Russia.

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## aviator_fan

Dariush the Great said:


> The US can kick out regime officials and their children who are grazing on the freedom of the US despite the ''death to USA'' slogans by their daddies back home.
> 
> Why don't you kick these hypocrites and their families out of the US or those other Western nations? Or is it that you need them in your double games?


I know Europe and US allows corrupt crooks from all over the world. Pakistani mullahs have their kids on US visa as do the thieve former PMs themselves seek refuge in Dubai and UK. We saw Putin's own kids hiding in Europe.

Who are the Iranian ruling elites living in the US: it is no accident, and they are put accepted for a reason. I just didn't know Iranians also did the same crappy stuff that other corrupt people do.

Wasn't Ayotallah himself in exile in Paris before he returned in 79?



Dalit said:


> We will see American. We will see. It is an utter joy to see you so helpless. LOL David versus Goliath.
> 
> It is clear. Pakistan, Iran, China and Russia are on your hate list. You can keep dreaming. Neither can papa America snatch Pakistani nukes. Nor won't Pakistan or any country on your hate list disappear. This is just wishful thinking by an arrogant 'Murican. After Afghanistan, Ukraine is another major loss for papa America. You are being challanged in broad daylight and I am loving it.


Come on, you post better than this. What does US-Pakistan dysfunction have to do with the war in Ukraine? Did the other poster egg you on or you just feel better putting this out there?



925boy said:


> BUt for Ukranian army, it winter that is coming.
> 
> But they need NATO to supply at least high xx,xxx of fully suited winter gear for soldiers
> 
> BUt NATO doesnt have enough to supply Ukraine, and Ukraine cant produce them, look at Lithuania:
> 
> View attachment 887382
> 
> 
> https://orientalreview.org/2022/10/...the-nature-of-military-operations-in-ukraine/


Your entire basis for excitement is based on the smallest Lithunian countries failure to live up to its commitment? If what started iwth 4 HIMARS went to 20 in 60 days, I can guarantee you there are enough winter supplies. After all NATO countries won't be using them in hand to hand battle with Russia so why let them expire, just use them so the Ukrainians can do the job much better (the ultimate in Russia destruction outsourcing)


----------



## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> Ukrainian front line soldiers are cannon fodder.


Do you drink when you post? First you said Lithuinia could not send and now you learn that Canada will equip 100,000. What does the cannon fodder have to do with winter clothing?

War is not fought on forums like this (despite what you may think). People that actually the fighting are prepared to die. They don't consider themselves fodder. Unfortunately (not cynically) the only ones that become fodder are the ciivilians (Gaza, Yemen, and in Kiev. Russian civilians are spared). They don't consider themselves cannon fodder. Neither you, nor I, nor anybody has numbers of Russian or Ukrainians killed so the 'fodder' comment is baseless at best.



Dalit said:


> Bajwa is an American hubby, but the Americans won't admit.


Relevance on this thread or did you take a wrong turn on topics?

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## jhungary

Vladimir Putin: Head of his military campaign found dead 'under mysterious circumstances'

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Yup I agree, Chinese beidou is not a hyper precision system better than the GPS. MiT review was lying. I am very sure, rest assured, Chinese weapons and Russian weapons can't work, that's why only 20% of Ukraine is occupied. Lolol


Well they never worked against Israel and never for the Serbs. And a 6x size army, near superpower, should be able to occupy at least 20% of the country if its going to humiliate itself in a war. 
Don't quote the 20%: quote against Russia's original intent: take over Kiev, install a friendly regime.

So it is failure to attain Russia's OWN objectives that determine their humiliation , not your selective memory of history.



Beast said:


> LOL... Another BS and nonsense from you? Most Chinese tech is from West and Taiwan? Then tell me how China EV sector grown into mammoth? and why did Huawei didnt collapse despite sanction? You are a well know anti-China hater. Not surprising this kind of nonsense spin story from you... Tell me why China managed to build space station and having all kind of advance? Some how magically the HSR tech China copy from West travel fast than them and more stable than Japan HSR since the West can easily straggle China. There are simply too much example China are leading many industries which nobody venture before. Tell other DJI drone tech is copy from west, they will laugh off your head. Get over it. China advancement is real and China tech is fact. Cry harder, loser and continue with so much of your lies.


Sanctions don't collapse a company, but they certainly have huge financial impact. Huawei's revenue is half of what it was two years ago and this year profits down 51%. Thats a material impact.

Today Apple announced its decision to NOT use YMTC chips for its iphone.

This is not a China hater thing and innovation in other areas is to be comended. But just know that China's tech industry (much like the rest of the world's) rests on working productively in a frictionless political system. Once thats gone, pain is real and its there.

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## jhungary

Putin's use of Iranian kamikaze drones risks dragging Israel into the war


----------



## Viet

925boy said:


> BUt for Ukranian army, it winter that is coming.
> 
> But they need NATO to supply at least high xx,xxx of fully suited winter gear for soldiers
> 
> BUt NATO doesnt have enough to supply Ukraine, and Ukraine cant produce them, look at Lithuania:
> 
> View attachment 887382
> 
> 
> https://orientalreview.org/2022/10/...the-nature-of-military-operations-in-ukraine/


just a moment in time. That means little. Increasing arms, ammo and winter clothing, that should not be a problem for the industrial capacity of the NATO states.

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## jhungary

Anyone who served would have known this kind of chatter is pointless, the commander uses the net to chew off the head of those gun crew for missing 500 meters. I mean, I could have used that time to adjust fire, port another coordinate and fire like 4 times with all those chatter about anal bead and accountant and mathematician talks. 

Jesus, I am surprised the Ukrainian didn't just sat there and laugh at the chatter instead get on their gun and do some COUNTBAT while the Russian CO is doing that.


----------



## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Ukraine looks anxiously towards its northern border, and a fresh influx of Russian troops into Belarus | CNN
> 
> 
> The announcement last week by Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko that his country and Russia would form a joint regional force and carry out exercises set off alarm bells in Kyiv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The prospect of the Belarusian border becoming a passageway for Russian troops would be a nightmare for Kyiv's already stretched forces
> 
> Another lucrative entry point for Russian forces.


Ukraine has always kept reserves there and the passageway is full of mines/blown bridges/mud.

I pray that they try. They will be crushed and belarussian regime would be hanging on by a thread.

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## MMM-E

*Only Turkiye has its own Kamikaze Drone in NATO
Ukraine needs Turkish KARGI kamikaze Drone which is better than İranian Shahed-136 *

6+ hours of operation capability ( 1.000 km )
RF seeker
SATCOM
Datalink
home-of-jam capability












KARGI variant with E/O System


----------



## monitor

Cᴀʟɪʙʀᴇ Oʙsᴄᴜʀᴀ

@CalibreObscura


#Ukraine: Ukroboronprom are teasing the near completion of the development of a loitering munition/suicide UAV, with a range of 1000km and a warhead of 75kg. Would be interesting to see where this will be (or has already been) used.


Cᴀʟɪʙʀᴇ Oʙsᴄᴜʀᴀ

@CalibreObscura


#Ukraine: Ukroboronprom are teasing the near completion of the development of a loitering munition/suicide UAV, with a range of 1000km and a warhead of 75kg. Would be interesting to see where this will be (or has already been) used.


----------



## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> LOL at Ukraine has the momentum. You have been saying this for months.
> 
> Why aren't your allies willing to take your side? Any explanation?


Sure baghdad bob. 

Take a pill against your delusions please. Its embarrassing to see you sniff more copium then even russia state tv.

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## khansaheeb




----------



## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> Well they never worked against Israel and never for the Serbs. And a 6x size army, near superpower, should be able to occupy at least 20% of the country if its going to humiliate itself in a war.
> Don't quote the 20%: quote against Russia's original intent: take over Kiev, install a friendly regime.
> 
> So it is failure to attain Russia's OWN objectives that determine their humiliation , not your selective memory of history.
> 
> 
> Sanctions don't collapse a company, but they certainly have huge financial impact. Huawei's revenue is half of what it was two years ago and this year profits down 51%. Thats a material impact.
> 
> Today Apple announced its decision to NOT use YMTC chips for its iphone.
> 
> This is not a China hater thing and innovation in other areas is to be comended. But just know that China's tech industry (much like the rest of the world's) rests on working productively in a frictionless political system. Once thats gone, pain is real and its there.



The losing Russians and the 20% territory the size of some European country. And again I told you China weak, US stronk, we absolutely definitely do not have the world's most accurate GPS ssystem and remote sensing system. I am. Pretty sure of it.

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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia continues to lose territory, has sustained 7,400 armor and equipment losses, and approaching 100K casualties in 8 months of warfare.
> 
> Russia has absolutely lost

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## SIPRA

Dalit said:


> LOL at Ukraine has the momentum.



Momentum, in physics, is product of mass and velocity. So, if a soldier is running away from the battle field, at high speed; he can be termed to have high momentum.

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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> TOWs are not downgraded no matter what people said. Not to mention the Russians are resorting to using old tanks with cope cages.


 who said they are downgraded , they are downgrade compared to FGM-148 Javelin which is a lot more portable , easier to operate and is fire and forget also can penetrate more modern target .


----------



## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> You do realize that giving a gun to a hunter or a serial killer is a different moral thing?
> 
> Russia committed ethnic cleansing, annexation war, and used previous iranian weapons for strikes against civilian infrastructure. Iran is now piling weapons in their hands.
> 
> How can Iranians see themselves as just and pious while acting the same as the worst of the USA hawk/radical right?


perfectly , in their right . arm industry is business . your unilateral sanctions prohibit our arm sale to angels , well you must expect we sell it to demons . and you have no moral high or low to complain about . every single western country sold arm even mean to produce wmd to warring nations . we just sold some artillery equipment to reduce collateral damage in the war . if we didn't do that it was scud and grad that was falling on Kiev . in fact by doing so we reduced civilian casualties


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Can't wait to quote this when the Ukrainian took Kherson. 😁





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582263156839440384

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## alimobin memon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582263156839440384


Its clear media is suppressing truth. Intellectuals influencers like Elon Musk, Jordan peterson etc etc know and thats why there tweets are clear that something else is going.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582266463314137089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582265716426047489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582262800260665344

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Is Shahed-136 Stealth?
> Does Shahed-136 have counter meaasure?
> Can Shahed-136 communicate with fighter?
> 
> If all the above answer is no, then it's a programmed A-B drone loaded with explosive, to be frank, it's the same as Food Delivery Drone just instead it deliver my Uber Eat, it deliver bombs payload....


well shahed-136 have something to talk about first question.


jhungary said:


> There are report that Ukrainian ZSU intercepted 6 Shahed-136 drones in succession, so no, it is not really that expensive to deal with. I mean I don't think Shahed-136 can escape CIWS type weapon system that shoot 20mm round.


a question , Ukraine have no problem for showing footage of every cat and dog they killed in Ukraine .. why when it come to shahed-136 we only have footage of at most less than 10 while they make daily claim of shooting down 30-60 on daily base 


jhungary said:


> And I would say even Accomplished Drone such as Switchblade or TB-2 is not expensive at all to counter, it basically depends on how you can do it. You can either soft kill and hard kill any drone.


Accomplished ? come on again your mentality that something our of iran must be lower grade.
by the way your comparison is like comparing apple and orange , the drones you mentioned cut the link to operator they are fucked up . shahed-136 cut the link , well who care

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582066409219112960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582267367358201858

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582259402530177024

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Iran is depending on US electronics for its drones, so mass production could soon be a problem.


unless usa stop selling those chips around the world and in that case the board can be redesigned



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Iran is depending on US electronics for its drones, so mass production could soon be a problem.


unless usa stop selling those chips around the world and in that case the board can be redesigned



Viet said:


> will be a welcome move. Turks drones are well received in Ukraine. I am surprised that Putin still smiling when meeting Erdogan. Ukraine needs to strengthen air defense quickly. Seems Iran mullahs are keen on more terror bloodshed they will send ballistic missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran reportedly set to ship ballistic missiles to Russia for use in Ukraine | The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com


only if assume it can detect Shahed-136 at 8km away . don't forget its low RCS nature compared to other drones


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582267681520070657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582267950715002880

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> 1.) Stealth is NOT just about RCS; you also have to take care of "Heat and Noise Signature" and you can't have that on a 2 stroke Engine.


heat signature are shown to be low , noise on other hand 



jhungary said:


> 3.) If it did not have optics, which mean it can at most receive and compile coordinate, it cannot do what we called "Pathfinding" into their target.


it can do that if necessary by using other radio source around , there is no need to only consider optic cues for that , you can used cell towers , radio stations , microwave towers ,....

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Sure baghdad bob.
> 
> Take a pill against your delusions please. Its embarrassing to see you sniff more copium then even russia state tv.



When are you coming to Pakistan to confiscate the nukes? LOL Take a hike son of Hitler. You are on the wrong forum twat. This isn't a far right Nazi forum in case you are lost.



alimobin memon said:


> Its clear media is suppressing truth. Intellectuals influencers like Elon Musk, Jordan peterson etc etc know and thats why there tweets are clear that something else is going.



Just have a look at how many of these American and Europhiles have ganged up on PDF LOL The irony... A Pakistani defence forum where a bunch of American and Europeans are trying to fight their keyboard wars. These suckers have found a forum where they can vent their frustration. These topics need to be archived so that we can name and shame them. Remind them how triggered they were. An NFT should be made out of this thread.

Too bad most aren't buying their BS apart from a handful of uncle Tom's.

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## Hack-Hook

dbc said:


> These flying tuk-tuks are easily tracked even against a hot desert in the background.





Stryker1982 said:


> Yes lol, Their are too many, and your country should kick them out.
> 
> Actually made a mistake, Qasef-2-K has 4 wings, this has 2, not sure what this is.


probably good old Shahed-123 





a lot less air on the engine as a result the engine work a lot hotter than Shahed-136 that air with a speed of more than 180km blow over it and cool it down



Ali_Baba said:


> Iran breaching nuclear deal by providing Russia with armed drones, says UK​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran breaching nuclear deal by providing Russia with armed drones, says UK
> 
> 
> UK joins France in saying apparent drone supply for use in Ukraine leaves Iran in breach of 2015 JCPoA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> UK joins France in saying apparent drone supply for use in Ukraine leaves Iran in breach of 2015 JCPoA


in the deal there is nothing about iran drones or iran selling weapons


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> well shahed-136 have something to talk about first question.



Yes, a lawn mower really does have something to say, OUT LOUD......



Hack-Hook said:


> a question , Ukraine have no problem for showing footage of every cat and dog they killed in Ukraine .. why when it come to shahed-136 we only have footage of at most less than 10 while they make daily claim of shooting down 30-60 on daily base



There are tons of intercepted Shahed 136 drone footage on Youtube and Telegram











I mean, you just need to go look it up. 




Hack-Hook said:


> Accomplished ? come on again your mentality that something our of iran must be lower grade.
> by the way your comparison is like comparing apple and orange , the drones you mentioned cut the link to operator they are fucked up . shahed-136 cut the link , well who care



Problem is, if Shahed 136 cut the link (well, if there are one to be cut) it would basically become a dumb bomb, you can't steer it, you can't control where it land. Then why I would use a Shahed 136 when I can literally use Dumb Bomb that cost not more than $1000 to make? Instead of a $20,000 shahed 136??

Drone warfare are there for you to hit critical target WIHTOUT endangering your other asset, which mean if it got intercepted, big deal, you can send another, then another, then another. That's why you would want to use something like Switchblade because they are inexpensive, and you can guide them. Or if you want to perform ISTAR as well, you use TB-2. Do tell me what Shahed-136 bring into the table both Tactically and Strategically?? 

It's not about whether or not Iranian equipment is low grade, it's about you can't put them in a category that are useful for Russian military.



Hack-Hook said:


> heat signature are shown to be low , noise on other hand



Again, if they can be picked up, it's not low. 



Hack-Hook said:


> it can do that if necessary by using other radio source around , there is no need to only consider optic cues for that , you can used cell towers , radio stations , microwave towers ,....



How about Ukrainian with a microwave tower that point to a Russian position??

You see my point there? I mean, I am not saying or suggesting the Ukrainian can just use microwave oven or whatever to spoof that cue, but the point is it can be spoof, and you don't have a direct linkage to the drone, which mean you either have to have someone with the eyes on target and guide the drone in using whatever you said you are using and hope the Ukrainian did not have countermeasure, or you basically launch it and let it rip, and hit whatever it hit.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582253359381491712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582246719307550720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582239358958022663

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582278264285892609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582278102821969921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582278573314179073

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582138742319775745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582138767858540545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582288382796779520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582283585209266179

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582283594021892097

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> There are tons of intercepted Shahed 136 drone footage on Youtube and Telegram
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, you just need to go look it up.


exactly my problem , that tons can be counted with finger of two hand , the rest shown parts of the UAV after it being intercepted by Ukrainian infrastructure 


jhungary said:


> Problem is, if Shahed 136 cut the link (well, if there are one to be cut) it would basically become a dumb bomb, you can't steer it, you can't control where it land. Then why I would use a Shahed 136 when I can literally use Dumb Bomb that cost not more than $1000 to make? Instead of a $20,000 shahed 136??


a dumb bomb is an Iron bomb like Fab-250 or MK-82 
the shahed-136 will become more like an SDB, they are in range of 40000-50000 for SDB-1 SDB-2 is more like 250000$ not 1000
they have the disadvantage of a you must send an airplane and you knew how well russian sead worked . also at best they can be fired at is 50-100km away . shahed-136 is a 2000+ km weapon


jhungary said:


> Again, if they can be picked up, it's not low.


depend on the signature size and if it will be considered as background noise or not.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581917013165109248I say pretty small heat signature , do you really believe F-35 heat signature is less than that ?


jhungary said:


> How about Ukrainian with a microwave tower that point to a Russian position??
> 
> You see my point there? I mean, I am not saying or suggesting the Ukrainian can just use microwave oven or whatever to spoof that cue, but the point is it can be spoof, and you don't have a direct linkage to the drone, which mean you either have to have someone with the eyes on target and guide the drone in using whatever you said you are using and hope the Ukrainian did not have countermeasure, or you basically launch it and let it rip, and hit whatever it hit.


microwave over don't spoof anything . those microwave tower i mentioned are used for TV and Communication , they are there . as part of the country infrastructure . . when you program a drone based on radio signature , it only look for the one it programmed for , you can add 100m radio signature in between , it won't care about them , just look for the one it was told to go toward , until it find the next one and go toward that next radio source



MMM-E said:


> *Ukraine needs Turkish KARGI kamikaze Drone which is better than İranian Shahed-136 *
> 
> 6+ hours of operation capability ( 1.000 km )
> RF seeker
> SATCOM
> Datalink
> home-of-jam capability


500,000 $ price tag


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582277143199125504

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> exactly my problem , that tons can be counted with finger of two hand , the rest shown parts of the UAV after it being intercepted by Ukrainian infrastructure



I can't quote Telegram here, otherwise I would have been able to post around 30 videos.

I used maybe 1 minute or less to look up those 2 videos.


Hack-Hook said:


> a dumb bomb is an Iron bomb like Fab-250 or MK-82
> the shahed-136 will become more like an SDB, they are in range of 40000-50000 for SDB-1 SDB-2 is more like 250000$ not 1000
> they have the disadvantage of a you must send an airplane and you knew how well russian sead worked . also at best they can be fired at is 50-100km away . shahed-136 is a 2000+ km weapon



SBD (GBU-39)is a guided bomb, again, you are saying if you cut off the link to Shahed 136, which means you can no longer guide it, and it will fall whenever it may according to the coordinate downloaded before you launch. Which make it a dumb bomb.

And you don't use SDB for SEAD, you use anti-radiation missile to suppress enemy radar. That's WAY Above Shahed-136 range.





Hack-Hook said:


> depend on the signature size and if it will be considered as background noise or not.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581917013165109248I say pretty small heat signature , do you really believe F-35 heat signature is less than that ?



F-35 uses heat shielding to shield the heat siganture, the engine of Shahed 136 is protruded outside the fuselage.

And lol, are you for real compare the heat signature of F-35 to Shahed Drone??



Hack-Hook said:


> microwave over don't spoof anything . those microwave tower i mentioned are used for TV and Communication , they are there . as part of the country infrastructure . . when you program a drone based on radio signature , it only look for the one it programmed for , you can add 100m radio signature in between , it won't care about them , just look for the one it was told to go toward , until it find the next one and go toward that next radio source



Dude, didn't you actually read what I read? You can spoof ANY radar signature. What if I spoof one and launch it over to the Russian side, would Shahed taht smart and know that is a spoof and not flew into the Russian formation??

You can't because you don't even have optics to steer it away, once you launch the drone, and that's it, you have minimal control over how this is targeted, and that is a point, I don't even US drone or Israeli drone are immune to signal spoofing, and you are saying it won't happen to Iranian drone.

Lol.....I believe you........


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> can't quote Telegram here, otherwise I would have been able to post around 30 videos.
> 
> I used maybe 1 minute or less to look up those 2 videos.


compare that to 30-40 daily Ukrainian claims


jhungary said:


> SBD (GBU-39)is a guided bomb, again, you are saying if you cut off the link to Shahed 136, which means you can no longer guide it, and it will fall whenever it may according to the coordinate downloaded before you launch. Which make it a dumb bomb.


and you gave a coordinate to shahed-136. you don't do that with mk-82 which is a dumb bomb.
even if you consider shahed-136 a dumb bomb which is wrong as it can correct its course if it loose connection to satellite in its flight path , its a damn precise long range dumb bomb and that is enough to do its duty , we don't except it to solve General Relativity , problems and questions.


jhungary said:


> And you don't use SDB for SEAD, you use anti-radiation missile to suppress enemy radar. That's WAY Above Shahed-136 range.


who said you use that for SEAD , you send airplanes with SEAD duty to clean the path for the one that carry the SDBs , and Russia don't have such airplanes 


jhungary said:


> F-35 uses heat shielding to shield the heat siganture, the engine of Shahed 136 is protruded outside the fuselage.
> 
> And lol, are you for real compare the heat signature of F-35 to Shahed Drone??


I very much like to see infrared camera image of this airplane 










if that is not clear how cool the exhaust is , what about these two photo










and some of those pictures are official United State published photos


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> compare that to 30-40 daily Ukrainian claims



I don't think you have 30-40 drone to get shot down since September 6, that mean you had send more than 1200 drone to Russia. 



Hack-Hook said:


> and you gave a coordinate to shahed-136. you don't do that with mk-82 which is a dumb bomb.
> even if you consider shahed-136 a dumb bomb which is wrong as it can correct its course if it loose connection to satellite in its flight path , its a damn precise long range dumb bomb and that is enough to do its duty , we don't except it to solve General Relativity , problems and questions.



You don't understand my analogy. I am not saying Shahed ARE dumb bomb, I am saying once you cut off the communication link, it will ACT LIKE a dumb bomb. It WILL BE HIT AND MISS. And if this is the case, why not just use dumb bomb??



Hack-Hook said:


> who said you use that for SEAD , you send airplanes with SEAD duty to clean the path for the one that carry the SDBs , and Russia don't have such airplanes



Oh well..



Hack-Hook said:


> I very much like to see infrared camera image of this airplane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if that is not clear how cool the exhaust is , what about these two photo



We all want to see a fully analysed and calibrated infrared picture of a F-35. That would have been Intelligence Treasury Trove. 

And again, are you seriously comparing a fighter jet that you are going to use anywhere between 5000 to 40,000 ft to a drone that at most flew at 1000 AGL?


----------



## Hack-Hook

wonder which is brighter on infrared camera this piece of technological marvel with its next gen heat shielding




or a Christmas tree

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> I don't think you have 30-40 drone to get shot down since September 6, that mean you had send more than 1200 drone to Russia.


tell that to Ukraine not me


jhungary said:


> You don't understand my analogy. I am not saying Shahed ARE dumb bomb, I am saying once you cut off the communication link, it will ACT LIKE a dumb bomb. It WILL BE HIT AND MISS. And if this is the case, why not just use dumb bomb??


a dumb bomb if loosing its way , is lost , shahed-136 is capable of continuing its way and actually find its way and adjust accordingly , that is the difference with dumb bombs



jhungary said:


> We all want to see a fully analysed and calibrated infrared picture of a F-35. That would have been Intelligence Treasury Trove.
> 
> And again, are you seriously comparing a fighter jet that you are going to use anywhere between 5000 to 40,000 ft to a drone that at most flew at 1000 AGL?


at 40000 feet the temp around airplane is a lot lower than at 1000 feet AGL, a lot easier for Infrared cameras .
and there is no doubt distance play a very important roles . but consider it that F-35 don't use the shielding that B-2 or YF-23 had against heat . it rely on mixing exhaust gases with cold air to reduce heat signature and the result is probably a lot better than 1700 degree Celsius of other jets but certainly alot more than several hundred degree and again the the contrast to ambient sub zero temperature at those altitude are a lot higher than air cooled shahed-123 with the ambient temperature 


jhungary said:


> Dude, didn't you actually read what I read? You can spoof ANY radar signature. What if I spoof one and launch it over to the Russian side, would Shahed taht smart and know that is a spoof and not flew into the Russian formation??


you can do that , but you must first find out which cell tower or radio station or ground radar I'm using


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Englishman said:


> Perhaps now zelenski understands what gazans feal on a daily basis?
> 
> Bad isn't it.


Not really.
It is more the experience of someone in Ashkelon.
Same type of war criminals on the other side focusing on targeting civilians.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Not really.
> It is more the experience of someone in Ashkelon.
> Same type of war criminals on the other side focusing on targeting civilians.


agree the experience in a certain 20km wide stripe on east side of Mediterranean sea


----------



## ziaulislam

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581781189211234306
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581780628248596483
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581770179234910208
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581767283478700032


Again change of strategey?
Or is it just feint to divert forces from its objectives



Englishman said:


> Perhaps now zelenski understands what gazans feal on a daily basis?
> 
> Bad isn't it.


There is no comparison.
Ukraine hasNOT been seriously bombed

Russia has been pretty conservative when it comes to mainland ukraine

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## Paul2

Hack-Hook said:


> wonder which is brighter on infrared camera this piece of technological marvel with its next gen heat shielding
> View attachment 887500
> 
> or a Christmas tree
> View attachment 887501



You cannot hide from modern infrared detection in any way. You however can reduce the distance from which dumber seekers of missiles will see you.

I predict, we will see space telescopes looking down on earth, and being able to detect every flying thing on the planet within our lifetime.


----------



## Englishman

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Not really.
> It is more the experience of someone in Ashkelon.
> Same type of war criminals on the other side focusing on targeting civilians.



Pray with me
That when we enter the next world,
You are raised up alongside the Israelis and I am raised up alongside the Palestinians.

We trust the judgment of g-d,

Aimen

Now put your money where you mouth is and repeat this with me.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

They used to be a superpower btw. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582038133306052608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579782611844603904

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## ZeGerman

ziaulislam said:


> Again change of strategey?
> Or is it just feint to divert forces from its objectives
> 
> 
> There is no comparison.
> Ukraine hasNOT been seriously bombed
> 
> Russia has been pretty conservative when it comes to mainland ukraine


Ehmm…ukraine in a few months has more civilians killed then the last 30 years in gaza.
Ukraine has entire villages bombed off the map and large areas ethnically cleansed, gaza had stayed more or less the same…and its population shows an very rapid increase. 

There is no comparison. But exactly the other way around. Spare me your hamas propaganda.

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## Ali_Baba

*Sat, Oct 8, 2022 *

Putin rocked as drone attack in Russia destroys two bombers and FSB agents come under fire​








Putin rocked as drone attack in Russia destroys two bombers


The military base is home to Russia's 52nd Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment, which has a fleet of TU-22M3 long-range bombers.




www.express.co.uk







> Vladimir Putin was left reeling after a drone attack on a military airfield inside Russia reportedly *destroyed two bombers*. The strike occurred yesterday at the Shaykovka air base in the Kaluga region, about 200km (124 miles) from the border with Ukraine. The military base is home to Russia's 52nd Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment, which has a fleet of TU-22M3 long-range bombers.



I missed this report initially - wow if true!

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## dbc

Hack-Hook said:


> wonder which is brighter on infrared camera this piece of technological marvel with its next gen heat shielding
> View attachment 887500
> 
> or a Christmas tree
> View attachment 887501



The F-35 is designed for long / medium range stealth which means it is deliberately engineered to dissipate heat as quickly as possible and is vulnerable to IR detection at WVR but undetectable at MWIR/LWIR. The F-35 can strike targets with impunity from 100 NM or greater and use its advanced onboard / off board sensor suite to stay out of close in engagement. Why are we comparing a flying tuk-tuk to the F-35?

I don't know any platform that isn't IR detectable in WVR. If people who comment here had a basic understanding of physics they'd know its impossible.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The Russian pilot of the SU-34 that crashed in Yesk earlier. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582073023988760576

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582339726321012736

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## ziaulislam

ZeGerman said:


> Ehmm…ukraine in a few months has more civilians killed then the last 30 years in gaza.
> Ukraine has entire villages bombed off the map and large areas ethnically cleansed, gaza had stayed more or less the same…and its population shows an very rapid increase.
> 
> There is no comparison. But exactly the other way around. Spare me your hamas propaganda.


Get math lesson.
7000 civilians PER WESTERN sources is 20X less then civilian causiliites in palestine

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## Reashot Xigwin

The state of Russian military right now is be the butt of joke. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580338223229784064

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## Viet

national gas price a new low: $117.

Too much supply, little demands

What will Putin do with giant gas surpluses he can’t sell?

EU won’t buy.

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## ZeGerman

ziaulislam said:


> Get math lesson.
> 7000 civilians PER WESTERN sources is 20X less then civilian causiliites in palestine


Learn to count.

Total deaths (including combatants, including westbank) for last 15 years is about 6000. 








Infographic: The Human Cost Of The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict


This chart shows Israeli & Palestinian deaths/injuries documented by the UN in Gaza and the West Bank.




www.statista.com




Should i continue? Its really small compared to many other conflicts

And 7000 ukranian civilians is per UN. And is a severe underreported figure as there is an ongoing war. 
Ukranian figures speak of 22000 plus just for Mariupol if you want to use those figures against “gaza”. 

Oh but a muslim counts 20 times more then ukranians? Is that your logic?

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> national gas price a new low: $117.
> 
> Too much supply, little demands
> 
> What will Putin do with giant gas surpluses he can’t sell?
> 
> EU won’t buy.



Hey - where are you tracking this from ?


----------



## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Hey - where are you tracking this from ?


You can follow the futures.

For Europe you can watch the ICE.




__





ICE Futures and Options | Product Guide


Contracts are for physical delivery through the transfer of rights in respect of Natural Gas at the Title Transfer Facility (TTF) Virtual Trading Point, operated by Gasunie Transport Services (GTS), the transmission system operator in the Netherlands. Delivery is made equally each hour...




www.theice.com





For the US you can follow the CME.


https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/energy/natural-gas/natural-gas.quotes.html

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582348312984055809
lmao kadyrov and his tiktok batallions won't stop to impress me.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582294338217746433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582346986921275392

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582308162241056770
What more proof do you need that Russians drunkards are just a bunch of liars ? Their words have less value than toilet paper.

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## _Nabil_

⚡ #Ukraine 💥 This morning at #Kyiv the power plant was hit by a drone 🇷🇺 . Ukrainian soldiers again fired at the drone with machine guns in an attempt to bring it down.
Earlier it was reported that there were power outages at #Kiev .
#Donbass #Crimea

_

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582343762319380481_


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582308162241056770
> What more proof do you need that Russians drunkards are just a bunch of liars ? Their words have less value than toilet paper.


Lolz, Westerns talking about liars 😁🤣








‘Blot’ on Powell’s record: Lies to the UN about Iraq’s weapons


Powell used his reputation to help convince the world Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat, but the US intel was false.




www.aljazeera.com

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> They used to be a superpower btw.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579782611844603904


 old saw it one month ago



Reashot Xigwin said:


> They used to be a superpower btw.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579782611844603904


 old saw it one month ago


----------



## Hack-Hook

dbc said:


> The F-35 is designed for long / medium range stealth which means it is deliberately engineered to dissipate heat as quickly as possible and is vulnerable to IR detection at WVR but undetectable at MWIR/LWIR. The F-35 can strike targets with impunity from 100 NM or greater and use its advanced onboard / off board sensor suite to stay out of close in engagement. Why are we comparing a flying tuk-tuk to the F-35?
> 
> I don't know any platform that isn't IR detectable in WVR. If people who comment here had a basic understanding of physics they'd know its impossible.


wvr ? you got something wrong if infra red camera in 3rd of khordad E/O is good enough to gude a missile up to 75km away for target like RQ4 and according to Iran 40km away for low targets like F-35 without using any radar then . i say its not WVR.
and how you can say my phot was close , it was an F-35 in its flight . also there are photo from Russian FLIR that they claim they take from F-22 outside visial range.

and as in videos shown that flying tuk-tuk heat signature is a lot less. ok you can detect it with your thermal camera from 100m away , let tell you something there is no time to react then . and no F-35 is not the must stealthy when you look at it from back and its only means of lowering heat signature is mixing hot exhaust gases with cold air which is not the best solution unlike b-2 and failed yf-23 which did a lot better in that regard



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582308162241056770
> What more proof do you need that Russians drunkards are just a bunch of liars ? Their words have less value than toilet paper.


Iranian design , made in Russia


----------



## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> Learn to count.
> 
> Total deaths (including combatants, including westbank) for last 15 years is about 6000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infographic: The Human Cost Of The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
> 
> 
> This chart shows Israeli & Palestinian deaths/injuries documented by the UN in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.statista.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should i continue? Its really small compared to many other conflicts
> 
> And 7000 ukranian civilians is per UN. And is a severe underreported figure as there is an ongoing war.
> Ukranian figures speak of 22000 plus just for Mariupol if you want to use those figures against “gaza”.
> 
> Oh but a muslim counts 20 times more then ukranians? Is that your logic?


Within 2 weeks, Israel caused more than 2200 casualties on the people of Gaza from aerial bombardment.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> wvr ? you got something wrong if infra red camera in 3rd of khordad E/O is good enough to gude a missile up to 75km away for target like RQ4 and according to Iran 40km away for low targets like F-35 without using any radar then . i say its not WVR.
> and how you can say my phot was close , it was an F-35 in its flight . also there are photo from Russian FLIR that they claim they take from F-22 outside visial range.
> 
> and as in videos shown that flying tuk-tuk heat signature is a lot less. ok you can detect it with your thermal camera from 100m away , let tell you something there is no time to react then . and no F-35 is not the must stealthy when you look at it from back and its only means of lowering heat signature is mixing hot exhaust gases with cold air which is not the best solution unlike b-2 and failed yf-23 which did a lot better in that regard
> 
> 
> Iranian design , made in Russia


Ah come, those suicide drones are made in Iran. I am curious where Iran buys the engine and electronics despite sanctions. Probably not on Amazon. A means of terror, military worthless. You can participate more sanctions on Iran.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582308162241056770
> What more proof do you need that Russians drunkards are just a bunch of liars ? Their words have less value than toilet paper.



Basically Iran was violating the terms of the nuclear deal and Iran will "now stop supplying these mopeds" to Russia. Russia will run out of these Shahed drones very soon ...

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## _Nabil_

Belarusian Railways, Minsk region



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582367821614313472


Ali_Baba said:


> Basically Iran was violating the terms of the nuclear deal and *Iran will "now stop* supplying these *mopeds*" to Russia. Russia will run out of these Shahed drones very soon ...


In your dreams 😜, Iran regime got balls ✌️

And why do you care about "mopeds"? 🤣

An Iranian source told Reuters: Iran promised Russia more UAV


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582364233949663232

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## dbc

Hack-Hook said:


> wvr ? you got something wrong if infra red camera in 3rd of khordad E/O is good enough to gude a missile up to 75km away for target like RQ4 and according to Iran 40km away for low targets like F-35 without using any radar then . i say its not WVR.
> and how you can say my phot was close , it was an F-35 in its flight . also there are photo from Russian FLIR that they claim they take from F-22 outside visial range.
> 
> and as in videos shown that flying tuk-tuk heat signature is a lot less. ok you can detect it with your thermal camera from 100m away , let tell you something there is no time to react then . and no F-35 is not the must stealthy when you look at it from back and its only means of lowering heat signature is mixing hot exhaust gases with cold air which is not the best solution unlike b-2 and failed yf-23 which did a lot better in that regard



The F-35 is hard to detect outside 30 NM using any advanced IR sensor available to the west. The reason is atmospheric absorption of heat, there is a classified way to increase the rate at which heat is absorbed by the atmosphere such that the IR signature is significantly reduced at distances greater than 30 NM. The F-35 is optimized for engagement at stand off distance, it isn't intended to loiter over the target so its heat signature at short distances is irrelevant.


----------



## BHAN85

Hack-Hook said:


> Iranian design , made in Russia


Designed by Iran in Isfahan. Assembled in Russia.

Like iPhones from the devil.

Axis of Evil.

Anyway I dont believe a single word from Russia.

Likely they were made in Iran too.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The Russian pilot of the SU-34 that crashed in Yesk earlier.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582073023988760576


Maybe some Ukrainian sympathizer threw maple syrup to fuel tank.

But the criminal behavior of dont avoid a residential building is only merit from the "brave" pilot.


----------



## BHAN85

MMM-E said:


> *Only Turkiye has its own Kamikaze Drone in NATO
> Ukraine needs Turkish KARGI kamikaze Drone which is better than İranian Shahed-136 *
> 
> 6+ hours of operation capability ( 1.000 km )
> RF seeker
> SATCOM
> Datalink
> home-of-jam capability
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 887450
> 
> 
> KARGI variant with E/O System
> View attachment 887451


But is it cheaper? I dont think


----------



## ZeGerman

Primus said:


> Within 2 weeks, Israel caused more than 2200 casualties on the people of Gaza from aerial bombardment.


Thats less then mariopol….1 city in ukraine. 

And your counting casualties instead of killed. And taking into account combatants. 
And still come up short! 
I repeat. Gaza is peanuts compared to many other conflicts. Stop your hamas propaganda by putting it on some “atrocity pedestal”

if Israel would act as russia does now, then there would be no “middle east conflict”. 
Flatten all resistance with hundred and thousands of dumb artillery. Then hold false referendum with the few pro-israel that stayed. Annexed. Done. Maybe repopulate a bit for good measure.

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## F-22Raptor

In response to Irans delivery of missiles, Ukraine should be provided ATACMS ballistic missiles and air launched SLAM-ER cruise missiles. Declare open season on all of Russias bases in Crimea and ringing Ukraine including Belgorod.

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## Mrc

F-22Raptor said:


> In response to Irans delivery of missiles, Ukraine should be provided ATACMS ballistic missiles and air launched SLAM-ER cruise missiles. Declare open season on all of Russias bases in Crimea and ringing Ukraine including Belgorod.




Go for it

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## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> Get math lesson.
> 7000 civilians PER WESTERN sources is 20X less then civilian causiliites in palestine


Exaggerated figures as always.
Not backed by figures.






Palestinian casualties of war - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





”Total casualties for this period 63,543, including 31,227 fatalities.”

This includes combatants and Palestinians killed by other Palestinians or Arabs
over a period of 73 years.

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## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> Thats less then mariopol….1 city in ukraine.
> 
> And your counting casualties instead of killed. And taking into account combatants.
> And still come up short!
> I repeat. Gaza is peanuts compared to many other conflicts. Stop your hamas propaganda by putting it on some “atrocity pedestal”
> 
> if Israel would act as russia does now, then there would be no “middle east conflict”.
> Flatten all resistance with hundred and thousands of dumb artillery. Then hold false referendum with the few pro-israel that stayed. Annexed. Done. Maybe repopulate a bit for good measure.


2256 total casualties on gaza, including 256+ dead in Gaza, 1000 casualties in East Jerusalem and another 528+ in the west bank. Peanuts you say, bearing in mind this was all done in 2 weeks, whilst it wasn't even a 'war'. I'm not downplaying the civilian casualties in Ukraine. I'm just calling you out for downplaying the civilian casualties in Gaza/Palestine. You seem to love downplaying civilian casualties in Muslim countries. Oh wait I forgot you are an Islamophobic pos. Also lol at you downplaying the civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan

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## A.P. Richelieu

Primus said:


> Within 2 weeks, Israel caused more than 2200 casualties on the people of Gaza from aerial bombardment.


And most of them were combatants.

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## Primus

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And most of them were combatants.


Hamas claimed 80 dead, Israel claimed 200 dead. That makes up 8% of total casualties. (If we take the 200 dead into considration)Congrats

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582339726321012736



LOL









Ukraine war: Energy situation 'critical' after Russian attacks


The capital, Kyiv, and other cities are targeted, and officials say rolling power cuts are possible.



www.bbc.com

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> In response to Irans delivery of missiles, Ukraine should be provided ATACMS ballistic missiles and air launched SLAM-ER cruise missiles. Declare open season on all of Russias bases in Crimea and ringing Ukraine including Belgorod.



What @Mrc said, go for it. We need to escalate this as soon as possible. We need to expand the boundary of this conflict in Europe.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> old saw it one month ago
> 
> 
> old saw it one month ago


The whole point is making fun of the Russian banning peppa pig for having LGBT content but somehow not their armed forces for sucking each other dick.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Exaggerated figures as always.
> Not backed by figures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian casualties of war - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ”Total casualties for this period 63,543, including 31,227 fatalities.”
> 
> This includes combatants and Palestinians killed by other Palestinians or Arabs
> over a period of 73 years.


For the love of God these fake muslim doesn't give a crap about other Muslim. Just ask them about the Uyghur that usually shut them up.

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## ziaulislam

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Exaggerated figures as always.
> Not backed by figures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian casualties of war - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ”Total casualties for this period 63,543, including 31,227 fatalities.”
> 
> This includes combatants and Palestinians killed by other Palestinians or Arabs
> over a period of 73 years.


Oh no they dont count
Only blue eyes europeans count

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## zartosht

General @jhungary seems to have solved the drone probleM on his own. Please tell the sauds and their multi- billion dollar air defense assets all about it

A 20k drone can fly for hours inside the heart of ukraine and hit targets at will in the city centre. No viable or effective method exist of stoppign these

The only reliable asset that can engage them are extremely pricey 500k + missiles with extremely sensitive sensors 

The problem with that is, Russia will love playing that game. You either deplete your precious and expensive ad assets on these, or just continualy eat it. No 3rd option

This shows how pathetic western miliatry industry is. They throw absurd amounts of money into overkill systems that cost so much, and are so difficult to produce that they essentially pr weapons for the cameras. 

Iran is shitting on western doctrine. One 20k dorito at a time. All the people who have suffered thru centuries of western oppression and looting should be enjoying this and western desperation immensely

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## F-22Raptor

zartosht said:


> General @jhungary seems to have solved the drone probleM on his own. Please tell the sauds and their multi- billion dollar air defense assets all about it
> 
> A 20k drone can fly for hours inside the heart of ukraine and hit targets at will in the city centre. No viable or effective method exist of stoppign these
> 
> The only reliable asset that can engage them are extremely pricey 500k + missiles with extremely sensitive sensors
> 
> The problem with that is, Russia will love playing that game. You either deplete your precious and expensive ad assets on these, or just continualy eat it. No 3rd option
> 
> This shows how pathetic western miliatry industry is. They throw absurd amounts of money into overkill systems that cost so much, and are so difficult to produce that they essentially pr weapons for the cameras.
> 
> Iran is shitting on western doctrine. One 20k dorito at a time. All the people who have suffered thru centuries of western oppression and looting should be enjoying this and western desperation immensely









The US Army is already fielding 50KW DE Strykers that have destroyed hundreds of mortars and Class 1-3 UAS including suicide drones in tests. 

The costs are in dollars per shot

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## Primus

Reashot Xigwin said:


> For the love of God these fake muslim doesn't give a crap about other Muslim. Just ask them about the Uyghur that usually shut them up.


You mean the Uyghur Muslim crisis which both the west and Chinese are doing mass propaganda over, giving a skewed look on the entire thing?

I mean hey, if you wanna fake your concern for the Muslims of China, you could've at least done it for the Muslims of Palestine and Gaza. Also Pakistan sent an independent team to investigate the matter.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582409798947332096

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## _Nabil_

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582339726321012736




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582378670542319616


----------



## gambit

Iranians criticizing our F-35s? No irony there?

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## _Nabil_

gambit said:


> Iranians criticizing our F-35s? No irony there?


I guess they just teasing you, just like you are criticizing their UAVs

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## gambit

_Nabil_ said:


> I guess they just teasing you, just like you are criticizing their UAVs


Currently, UAVs are components of ground warfare, not airpower. But am waiting for the inevitable violations of the laws of physics from the PDF Iranians regarding how capable are their UAVs.

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## _Nabil_

gambit said:


> Currently, UAVs are components of ground warfare, not airpower. But am waiting for the inevitable violations of the laws of physics from the PDF Iranians regarding how capable are their UAVs.


They do the job, what do you want more ????

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## F-22Raptor

_Nabil_ said:


> They do the job, what do you want more ????



Terror bombing civilians does the job?

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## Shawnee

gambit said:


> Currently, UAVs are components of ground warfare, not airpower. But am waiting for the inevitable violations of the laws of physics from the PDF Iranians regarding how capable are their UAVs.


“*For the first time since the Korean War, we are operating without complete air superiority,” warned CENTCOM Commander Gen. Kenneth McKenzie says regarding Iranian drones.*









CENTCOM commander warns about Iranian drone threat


'For the first time since the Korean War, we are operating without complete air superiority,' warned CENTCOM Commander Gen. Kenneth McKenzie




jewishinsider.com





He talks air superiority not ground warfare

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> Terror bombing civilians does the job?



Collateral damage happens; let's not start a label war now.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582408392026357763

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## _Nabil_

F-22Raptor said:


> Terror bombing civilians does the job?


Lolz, please spare me your Hypocrisy

The term collateral damage and chirurgical strikes remind you something?

Wasn't to post this as Ukrainian staging is very known

https://****/proofzzz
Replace *** with t dot me

PS: what about those?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580704896797405185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581962320162721792

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## A.P. Richelieu

Primus said:


> Hamas claimed 80 dead, Israel claimed 200 dead. That makes up 8% of total casualties. (If we take the 200 dead into considration)Congrats



Israel claimed 36% civilians, 44% combatants, 20% uncategorized males aged 16–50.

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## F-22Raptor

PakFactor said:


> Collateral damage happens; let's not start a label war now.



Russian is intentionally targeting Ukrainian civilians and has the entire war.

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## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> Oh no they dont count
> Only blue eyes europeans count



Casualties that only occurred in your phantasy does not count.



PakFactor said:


> What @Mrc said, go for it. We need to escalate this as soon as possible. We need to expand the boundary of this conflict in Europe.


Yes, some ballistic missiles targetting drone factories in Iran would be appropriate.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582315216175439872

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582385009050013697

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582422007354109953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582431470119161856
Seems like another goodwill gesture in the making


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582337054356434944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582294850744987648

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582433413251756034


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582415541754466305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582399586454638592

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582435104323878912
Yep, Kherson is going to be liberated soon enough

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582374187414343681

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Ah come, those suicide drones are made in Iran. I am curious where Iran buys the engine and electronics despite sanctions. Probably not on Amazon. A means of terror, military worthless. You can participate more sanctions on Iran.


directly from intel.


----------



## BHAN85

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582385009050013697


They defy nothing, because Russia and Iran, both are denying the use of Iranian drones in the war.

They are ridiculous.

They dont want sanctions from the West.

Iranian and Russian digusting ruling elites can't live without use Western luxury items.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582271357660061696

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## Hack-Hook

Ali_Baba said:


> Basically Iran was violating the terms of the nuclear deal and Iran will "now stop supplying these mopeds" to Russia. Russia will run out of these Shahed drones very soon ...


exactly which part of the jcpoa is violated by these sale of uavs



F-22Raptor said:


> In response to Irans delivery of missiles, Ukraine should be provided ATACMS ballistic missiles and air launched SLAM-ER cruise missiles. Declare open season on all of Russias bases in Crimea and ringing Ukraine including Belgorod.


ATACMS for delivering Fateh-110 ?


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And most of them were combatants.


in Lebanon in 2006 for each combatant 2-3 civilian was killed by Israel , at the same war for each 2 Israelian soldier one Israelian civilian was killed by Hezbollah and Israel was using precision weapon and Hezbollah MLRS
after the war , in western circle nobody criticized Israel for the civilian died in northern Lebanon hundreds of km away from battle field , but every body in western circle criticized Hezbollah for 60 civilian died in less than 50km from battlefield . 

that show how western media concern about civilian life is biased and fake

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## BHAN85

Shahed 136 'Kamikaze' Drone Caught Seconds Before Hitting Target In Ukraine


The Iranian-made Russian-operated suicide drone is one of the many launched during the latest massive wave of attacks across Ukraine. This morning Ukraine




theaviationist.com







> According to some sources, the Shahed 136 has been upgraded in Russia with the addition of a GLONASS control unit which supposedly increased the range at the expense of the warhead. Russia might have acquired 2,400 Shahed 136s, according to Ukrainian intelligence.



I wonder, hasn't Ukraine Glonass jammers? Kyiv should be NO-Glonass-Zone, with powerful jammers transmiting in every direction.

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Iranians criticizing our F-35s? No irony there?


no . point out to people who claimed the drone have great heat signature can be engaged by infrared system easily that it has less heat signature than f-35 and as its extermely hard to engage f-35 by heat seeking equipment , its also not that easy to engage this drone with heat seeking equipment 

the only viable way right now is ww2 era wall of shrapnel



F-22Raptor said:


> Terror bombing civilians does the job?


double use infrastructure and materials , don't you think the term is a little familiar


----------



## BHAN85

From a legal point of view, a country is not sovereign of RF spectrum over his land?

Ukraine could request to EU to send Galileo signal in the same frequency than Glonass over his land?

Ukraine can't complain in UN about Russia sending his filthy Glonass signal over his land?


----------



## zartosht

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 887602
> 
> 
> The US Army is already fielding 50KW DE Strykers that have destroyed hundreds of mortars and Class 1-3 UAS including suicide drones in tests.
> 
> The costs are in dollars per shot



That peice of shit can barely bring down toy rc planes in a heavily controlled environment. It is grossly inadequate for the task at hand. And the system cost, r&d, maintenance and operations do not cost dollars per shot in tye capitalist for profit weapons manufacturers in the west. And the numbers arent there to even begin with


In other BREAKING NEWS:

Desperate western propaganda stating that mighty israel will now get involved because of Iran. Terrible news for the Russians. As now the zionists will use the billions of dollars of military supplies they get for free from western taxpayers to re-transfer them to ukraine

Delusional people thinking tiny israel who wouldnt survive 2 minutes with western military, diplomatic and propaganda aid is gonna come to the rescue. I

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> You are too afraid to admit the facts LOL How did you end up on this forum anyway?


What you can’t accept a counter point of view?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582245981772722177








Lawmakers seek emergency powers for Pentagon’s Ukraine war contracting


Proposal aims at ramp up the U.S. defense industrial base and helping European allies arm up.




www.defensenews.com





If the US Senate gets its way, a massive increase in weapons and ammo are on the way

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## BHAN85

zartosht said:


> In other BREAKING NEWS:
> 
> Desperate western propaganda stating that mighty israel will now get involved because of Iran. Terrible news for the Russians. As now the zionists will use the billions of dollars of military supplies they get for free from western taxpayers to re-transfer them to ukraine
> 
> Delusional people thinking tiny israel who wouldnt survive 2 minutes with western military, diplomatic and propaganda aid is gonna come to the rescue. I


Rusia is draging Israel to the conflict.

Since the first moment Israel keeps neutral, they didnt want problems with Russia.

But Russia is financing Iran military industry buying drones and giving them the blood of Ukrainian people to test their devilish machines.

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> Washington bullies Mexico into supporting war against Russia
> 
> 
> Mexico’s indictment of Washington for escalating the war in Ukraine for its “own hegemonic interests” is a blow to US and NATO war propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsws.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> López Obrador stressed, “Do not drag us in. We are not warmongers. We have ties with peoples from all over the world. Our policy is against war and for peace. Our policy is neutrality. No, we are not on the side of any hegemonic power in the world… In this case, we have acted and will continue to act in a neutral manner.”
> 
> 
> 
> It is an absolute joy to see you guys on the defensive.
> 
> LOL at Russia continues to lose territory. What have you been smoking?
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, Russia just annexed huge parts of Ukraine and all you guys can do is post some irrelevant Twitter feeds LOL Who are you people kidding? Russia is pouncing Ukrainian forces as we speak.
> 
> Your own allies are abstaining at UN vote LOL You cannot even convince your allies to support you. Here you are demanding others to support your Ukraine rhetoric.
> 
> Look at your Indian allies as an example LOL They are not even in this topic to support you. They are hiding on PDF in other topics LOL


Mexico should probably remain silent as the cartels run the country, the president has no power



Dalit said:


> LOL at Ukraine has the momentum. You have been saying this for months.
> 
> Why aren't your allies willing to take your side? Any explanation?


How much territory has Russia gained in the last month?
I’ll wait

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> When are you coming to Pakistan to confiscate the nukes? LOL Take a hike son of Hitler. You are on the wrong forum twat. This isn't a far right Nazi forum in case you are lost.
> 
> 
> 
> Just have a look at how many of these American and Europhiles have ganged up on PDF LOL The irony... A Pakistani defence forum where a bunch of American and Europeans are trying to fight their keyboard wars. These suckers have found a forum where they can vent their frustration. These topics need to be archived so that we can name and shame them. Remind them how triggered they were. An NFT should be made out of this thread.
> 
> Too bad most aren't buying their BS apart from a handful of uncle Tom's.


Been lurking for over 10 years, when mental midgets like you run your mouth I’m inclined to educate

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## Mrc

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582245981772722177
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lawmakers seek emergency powers for Pentagon’s Ukraine war contracting
> 
> 
> Proposal aims at ramp up the U.S. defense industrial base and helping European allies arm up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defensenews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the US Senate gets its way, a massive increase in weapons and ammo are on the way



This does not sound for ukerine

What they will do with amraams and patriot?


----------



## gambit

Shawnee said:


> “*For the first time since the Korean War, we are operating without complete air superiority,” warned CENTCOM Commander Gen. Kenneth McKenzie says regarding Iranian drones.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CENTCOM commander warns about Iranian drone threat
> 
> 
> 'For the first time since the Korean War, we are operating without complete air superiority,' warned CENTCOM Commander Gen. Kenneth McKenzie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He talks air superiority not ground warfare


What he meant was that since the Korean War, US doctrines has it that US ground troops will not be attacked by foreign air forces, and we made that clear. UAVs are components of ground forces which are more mobile than manned airplanes and more difficult to locate and counter. This goes back to what I said earlier that even though there are UAVs in combat in Ukraine, it is essentially a ground war.

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## jhungary

zartosht said:


> General @jhungary seems to have solved the drone probleM on his own. Please tell the sauds and their multi- billion dollar air defense assets all about it
> 
> A 20k drone can fly for hours inside the heart of ukraine and hit targets at will in the city centre. No viable or effective method exist of stoppign these
> 
> The only reliable asset that can engage them are extremely pricey 500k + missiles with extremely sensitive sensors
> 
> The problem with that is, Russia will love playing that game. You either deplete your precious and expensive ad assets on these, or just continualy eat it. No 3rd option
> 
> This shows how pathetic western miliatry industry is. They throw absurd amounts of money into overkill systems that cost so much, and are so difficult to produce that they essentially pr weapons for the cameras.
> 
> Iran is shitting on western doctrine. One 20k dorito at a time. All the people who have suffered thru centuries of western oppression and looting should be enjoying this and western desperation immensely


Looks like armchair @zartosht seems to know shit.

FIrst of all, did Iran drone attack Saudi in Saudi Arabia? No, you attack Saudi Force in Yeman, I don't know if Saudi is dumb enough to bring their entire Anti-Air defence, like literally EVERYTHING they had to fight in Yeman. But if they did that, yes, that was dumb.

Second of all, there aren't many recorded strike on Saudi Position, and the situation, like in Ukraine, remain unchanged.

Thirdly Ukraine have almost all of their Anti-Air Defence position on the frontline to protect the troop, and they don't have enough AA system to go around, other than the S-300 and S-125 they had before, the west only gave them 4 NASAM and 1 IRIS-T system. Those also go straight into the frontline. And that's the reason why Russia only use the Iranian drone to attack the city center, not the frontline. Even you can swamp them.

And finally, you have to be stupid to believe a single weapon system can change the entire war, As Russia send drone to Kyiv, Ukrainian force retook another 3 strategic cities ((Orilenka (Partly), Vilshana and Tabaivka) in the East now closing in on Svatove. You don't win a war by bombing civilian position, you win a war by killing your opponent and taken or retaken those land, which is what Ukrainian is doing. Meanwhile those drone weren't even used at Bakhmut to help the Wagner group advance into the city, instead of using them in Kyiv and Lviv and Odessa, hundred mile away from the front line.

and not to mention by doign all that, you are drawing Israel into the fray on Ukrainian side for no to low operational and strategic gain, that's pretty dumb.

But hey, I am pretty sure this goes over your head, for you "Iran Stonk, West Stupid", Am I Right???   

And no, I am not a general, I was a Captain, and* THAT'S MY ACTUAL MILITARY RANK*, talk to me when you have one.



Hack-Hook said:


> tell that to Ukraine not me



Well, it's you who believe in those crap, I never believe any number given from both side.



Hack-Hook said:


> a dumb bomb if loosing its way , is lost , shahed-136 is capable of continuing its way and actually find its way and adjust accordingly , that is the difference with dumb bombs



Dumb Bomb can also continue it flight until it was impacted. There are no different between a dumb bomb and a Shahed 136 AFTER It has cut its communication, again, if there are any to begin with



Hack-Hook said:


> at 40000 feet the temp around airplane is a lot lower than at 1000 feet AGL, a lot easier for Infrared cameras .
> and there is no doubt distance play a very important roles . but consider it that F-35 don't use the shielding that B-2 or YF-23 had against heat . it rely on mixing exhaust gases with cold air to reduce heat signature and the result is probably a lot better than 1700 degree Celsius of other jets but certainly alot more than several hundred degree and again the the contrast to ambient sub zero temperature at those altitude are a lot higher than air cooled shahed-123 with the ambient temperature



Yes, but your sensor has to be *EXREMELY* good to detect the contrast at 40,000 ft at ground level. Can you even see it on a thermal camera over a plane flying at 40,000? I literally tried on mine pointing at a plane I know is flying at FL360 (36,000 Ft) and it didn't pick up shit. And I am pretty sure that aircraft burn like a star, I mean, maybe yours can? I don't know.

You can pick up the heat signature if you are an aircraft trailing about 5 miles from a F-35, but then you need to know it was there before you can do that.



Hack-Hook said:


> you can do that , but you must first find out which cell tower or radio station or ground radar I'm using



The key word is *YOU CAN DO THAT*.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582385009050013697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582361820680974336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582358715218333696

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## dbc

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582435104323878912
> Yep, Kherson is going to be liberated soon enough


he looks and sounds depressed, someone send him some happy pills.

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## Primus

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Israel claimed 36% civilians, 44% combatants, 20% uncategorized males aged 16–50.


And since when did Israel become the beacon of truth? This is the same Israel that claimed the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was responsible for the extermination of Jews in Poland

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## ZeGerman

Primus said:


> 2256 total casualties on gaza, including 256+ dead in Gaza, 1000 casualties in East Jerusalem and another 528+ in the west bank. Peanuts you say, bearing in mind this was all done in 2 weeks, whilst it wasn't even a 'war'. I'm not downplaying the civilian casualties in Ukraine. I'm just calling you out for downplaying the civilian casualties in Gaza/Palestine. You seem to love downplaying civilian casualties in Muslim countries. Oh wait I forgot you are an Islamophobic pos. Also lol at you downplaying the civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan


I was reacting to someone who said ukraine “got the easy treatment” and cannot possibly be compared to “gaza” 

So now you ARE downplaying ukrainian casualties cause we have more civilian dead in 7 months then almost 70 years “gaza conflict” 

“Afghanistan”? You mean the millions population decline under soviets or the greatly impoved life expectancy under nato?


Seriously…cut the shit…i am against civilian casualties. You lot however (so quick to accuse others of racism and whatnot) seem to use a lot of formulas to be “outraged” or not…..

Victim american/jew “well serves them right”
Victim Non muslim “meh” 
Victim is Muslim…well what kind of muslim? 
Sunny palestinian “outrage” 
Uyghur “little bit outrage”

Now on to:
Agressor. Other muslim? “Turn a blind eye” 
Russia/china? “Turn a blind eye if geopolitically advantageous…else Outrage”
The west? “Outrage!”
Jews “mouth foaming outrage” 

Disgusting to see

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## The SC




----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582315216175439872


Wow they dont even try to hide their glee…
“Look at these civilians running out of water and heating this winter” Hahahaha russia stronk!! 

And you are cheerleading that Hassan. 
You do realize this is terrorizing civilian population? Maybe change your name to Hassan al-Shabab if that is more your thing.

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## Battlion25

I have been saying this for now almost 2 years that Saudi Arabia has the worlds best air defense systems and now it has revealed itself to folks..

''Turki al-Malki, said the coalition has destroyed _350 ballistic missiles_ and 550 explosive-laden drones''

Basically rendering the Houthis useless because the Saudis have a larger bulk and much effective air defensive systems..

Even Iron dome is not remotely comparable to saudis defense systems. Note all air defense systems have gaps and there is not single bullet proof AD in the world as humanity has not developed these systems collectively but when it comes to the best of the best then look no further then KSA and it is a landslide.

''They have intercepted hundreds of drones, missiles, and cruise missiles in real-time combat. And they have adopted some tactics that are a standard above even those used by the U.S. Army''

Even experienced US generals echoed the same sentiment claiming the Saudis to have the best air defensive systems in the world.

Despite Ukraine having the best western air defense systems currently they don't compare with Saudi Arabia's because the saudis have such a great bulk and have also found different methods and tactics to deal with these..

The Saudi air force is also underrated when it comes to dealing out or dishing out punishment they managed to send back a country to the stone ages not many air force can achieve this

If Saudi air defense systems and saudi air force was introduced here Ukraine will be the one dishing out

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## Shawnee

Battlion25 said:


> I have been saying this for now almost 2 years that Saudi Arabia has the worlds best air defense systems and now it has revealed itself to folks..
> 
> ''Turki al-Malki, said the coalition has destroyed _350 ballistic missiles_ and 550 explosive-laden drones''
> 
> Basically rendering the Houthis useless because the Saudis have a larger bulk and much effective air defensive systems..
> 
> Even Iron dome is not remotely comparable to saudis defense systems. Note all air defense systems have gaps and there is not single bullet proof AD in the world as humanity has not developed these systems collectively but when it comes to the best of the best then look no further then KSA and it is a landslide.
> 
> ''They have intercepted hundreds of drones, missiles, and cruise missiles in real-time combat. And they have adopted some tactics that are a standard above even those used by the U.S. Army''
> 
> Even experienced US generals echoed the same sentiment.
> 
> Despite Ukraine having the best western air defense systems currently they don't compare with Saudi Arabia's because the saudis have such a great bulk and have also found different methods and tactics to deal with these..
> 
> The Saudi air force is also underrated when it comes to dealing out or dishing out punishment they managed to send back a country to the stone ages not many air force can achieve this
> 
> If Saudi air defense systems and saudi air force was introduce here Ukraine will be the one dishing out









So @thetutle is not your other ID?

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## kingQamaR

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 887639
> 
> 
> So @thetutle is not your other ID?



They do,

99% of attacks have been successfully stopped,

the rest 1% that actually manage to hit their targets is what you hear about on the news,

Saudi Arabia have been attacked by thousands of drones, missiles from Iranian-backed Houthi militia within the last five years,

so it’s fare to say that the Saudi air defense forces have been quite successful considering that Saudi Arabia is not a militarized country and is new to this

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## Dil Pakistan

F-22Raptor said:


> In response to Irans delivery of missiles, Ukraine should be provided ATACMS ballistic missiles and air launched SLAM-ER cruise missiles. Declare open season on all of Russias bases in Crimea and ringing Ukraine including Belgorod.



To do what?
Fire them on Russia?

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> in Lebanon in 2006 for each combatant 2-3 civilian was killed by Israel , at the same war for each 2 Israelian soldier one Israelian civilian was killed by Hezbollah and Israel was using precision weapon and Hezbollah MLRS
> after the war , in western circle nobody criticized Israel for the civilian died in northern Lebanon hundreds of km away from battle field , but every body in western circle criticized Hezbollah for 60 civilian died in less than 50km from battlefield .
> 
> that show how western media concern about civilian life is biased and fake


The discussion was about Gaza 2014.
War Crimes are not about how many civilians are killed.
It is about attacking non-military targets.
So killing one civilian can be more criminal than killing 50.


----------



## Battlion25

kingQamaR said:


> They do,
> 
> 99% of attacks have been successfully stopped,
> 
> the rest 1% that actually manage to hit their targets is what you hear about on the news,
> 
> Saudi Arabia have been attacked by thousands of drones, missiles from Iranian-backed Houthi militia within the last five years,
> 
> so it’s fare to say that the Saudi air defense forces have been quite successful considering that Saudi Arabia is not a militarized country and is new to this



Saudi arabia is militarized tho but here is the thing regarding the Shaheed and other iranian missiles they don't have conventional edge meaning they can only target buildings or stragetic areas but they don't give conventional edge to the fighting forces on the ground..

Ukraine will likely approach Saudi Arabia for intelligence advise. Also the gaps in the Iron dome is signficiantly large and much lower performance capability as we have seen in 2021 and 2022 The Israelis were in shelters

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Primus said:


> And since when did Israel become the beacon of truth? This is the same Israel that claimed the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was responsible for the extermination of Jews in Poland


Feel free to correct those numbers.



Hack-Hook said:


> unless usa stop selling those chips around the world and in that case the board can be redesigned


A redesigned board and new S/W can easily delay stuff a year or two.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The discussion was about Gaza 2014.
> War Crimes are not about how many civilians are killed.
> It is about attacking non-military targets.
> So killing one civilian can be more criminal than killing 50.


do you like me post videos , phots and maps of Israel bombing in that war ?


----------



## jhungary

Dil Pakistan said:


> To do what?
> Fire them on Russia?


You do know they already did...

Otherwise how do you supposed Crimea Airfield being bombed and Belgorod being bombed??
They don't just combust simultaneously like Russia claim....



Battlion25 said:


> Saudi arabia is militarized tho but here is the thing regarding the Shaheed and other iranian missiles they don't have conventional edge meaning they can only target buildings or stragetic areas but they don't give conventional edge to the fighting forces on the ground..
> 
> Ukraine will likely approach Saudi Arabia for intelligence advise. Also the gaps in the Iron dome is signficiantly large and much lower performance capability as we have seen in 2021 and 2022 The Israelis were in shelters


Problem is, Saudi did not deploy their entire AA Might in Yemen, you are not talking about Houthi Rebel attacking Saudi Arabia troop and target in Saudi Arabia, you are talking about a forward deployed situation in Yemen. 

Traditional sense would put only 20-25% of Available Saudi Air Defence in Yemen, most of those are back in Saudi, and that still managed to shoo down majority of those drone attack. 

Ukraine on the other hand have VERY LIMITED Air Defence capability. And almost all of those are put in the line and defending their troop. And that gap is going to be plugged by NATO in the next arms shipment.


----------



## kingQamaR

Battlion25 said:


> Saudi arabia is militarized tho but here is the thing regarding the Shaheed and other iranian missiles they don't have conventional edge meaning they can only target buildings or stragetic areas but they don't give conventional edge to the fighting forces on the ground..
> 
> Ukraine will likely approach Saudi Arabia for intelligence advise. Also the gaps in the Iron dome is signficiantly large and much lower performance capability as we have seen in 2021 and 2022 The Israelis were in shelters






Battlion25 said:


> Saudi arabia is militarized tho but here is the thing regarding the Shaheed and other iranian missiles they don't have conventional edge meaning they can only target buildings or stragetic areas but they don't give conventional edge to the fighting forces on the ground..
> 
> Ukraine will likely approach Saudi Arabia for intelligence advise. Also the gaps in the Iron dome is signficiantly large and much lower performance capability as we have seen in 2021 and 2022 The Israelis were in shelters



The Iron Dome is successful on a national level over Israel partly because Israel has such a small physical area to defend. Hamas rockets are basically homemade crude products The system would be much less effective over an area the size of Ukrainian . But an Iron Dome system could be used to defend specific strategic targets over a limited area, and the Ukrainian should look into investing in a system they could deploy against attacks ?


----------



## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> You do know they already did...
> 
> Otherwise how do you supposed Crimea Airfield being bombed and Belgorod being bombed??
> They don't just combust simultaneously like Russia claim....
> 
> 
> Problem is, Saudi did not deploy their entire AA Might in Yemen, you are not talking about Houthi Rebel attacking Saudi Arabia troop and target in Saudi Arabia, you are talking about a forward deployed situation in Yemen.
> 
> Traditional sense would put only 20-25% of Available Saudi Air Defence in Yemen, most of those are back in Saudi, and that still managed to shoo down majority of those drone attack.
> 
> Ukraine on the other hand have VERY LIMITED Air Defence capability. And almost all of those are put in the line and defending their troop. And that gap is going to be plugged by NATO in the next arms shipment.



According to my knowledge Air defense systems have been deployed to Ukraine since May-June which has limited the effect of the Russian rocket attacks significiantly..

They can somewhat close the gap further but won't be able to close it entirely or remotely close to as KSA..

Example the overrated Iron dome has significiantly large gaps and if that doesn't work there is nothing they can do to close the gaps as best as possible unless they utilize KSA ADS intelligence


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582477140238696448

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582437444586450944

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582355159346163712

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582284884386537472


----------



## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582478184087359489

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582394852196913154
Lockheed will increase HIMARS production to 96 per year. Currently it’s at 60

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## 925boy

jhungary said:


> Putin's use of Iranian kamikaze drones risks dragging Israel into the war


Israel that couldnt handle Hamas last year should be wise and stay away from Ukraine - Israel doesnt have the stamina for this type of conflict, and daddy AMerica is also getting exhausted too with helping Ukraine the adoptee country (when were us Americans asked if we wanted to financially adopt a broke azz Ukraine? smfh.).

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## ziaulislam




----------



## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> According to my knowledge Air defense systems have been deployed to Ukraine since May-June which has limited the effect of the Russian rocket attacks significiantly..
> 
> They can somewhat close the gap further but won't be able to close it entirely or remotely close to as KSA..
> 
> Example the overrated Iron dome has significiantly large gaps and if that doesn't work there is nothing they can do to close the gaps as best as possible unless they utilize KSA ADS intelligence


Well, if we run the war according to your knowledge, then all 3 Ukrainian counterattacks should not happen because they would not have enough tank and artillery to support such an attack.

Also, there are NO Air Defence Syste supply in May-June, there are stinger from the beginning of the war, and the NASAM/IRIS-T both supplied last month, and they already credited with 10 + aerial kills in a mix of Drone, Helicopter and Fix wing, and those are on public report.

NATO is going to seriously mull on C-RAM system to Ukraine, those are going to make an impact with the drone.









C-RAM System in Action


Counter Rocket Artillery Mortar Protection System.




www.military.com







925boy said:


> Israel that couldnt handle Hamas last year should be wise and stay away from Ukraine - Israel doesnt have the stamina for this type of conflict, and daddy AMerica is also getting exhausted too with helping Ukraine the adoptee country (when were us Americans asked if we wanted to financially adopt a broke azz Ukraine? smfh.).


lol, you make me laugh.....

Sure, every one should stay at home and not engage in it, probably we should start with you.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582477140238696448


Think he already had left......

That's telling you how the situation going in Kherson.

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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582527132944588803


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Primus said:


> I mean hey, if you wanna fake your concern for the Muslims of China, you could've at least done it for the Muslims of Palestine and Gaza. Also Pakistan sent an independent team to investigate the matter.


As opposed to you people faking concern about Palestinian? I know you don't really about care about the Palestinian. They just prop for you people to use.

so does the UN sent investigation team that claim that China does not give unrestricted access to the UN fact finding mission. Therefore blocking any investigation. 

Fun fact: I been consistently calling out every Muslims oppression uyghur, Palestine, rohingya, kurds even Yazidi & I'm an Atheist.

You people are not Muslims if you get to pick & choose which Muslim you want to protect & which one you want to throw under the bus.

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> The losing Russians and the 20% territory the size of some European country. And again I told you China weak, US stronk, we absolutely definitely do not have the world's most accurate GPS ssystem and remote sensing system. I am. Pretty sure of it.


? I don't recall any discussion about Chinese GPS with you.

What I am reminding you that Putin went into take over capital, install a friendly Govt and make it a satellite state like it was under USSR. Instead he has 20% of territory. May be this is how people living under dictators define victory. Wonderful!

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> You cannot hide from modern infrared detection in any way. You however can reduce the distance from which dumber seekers of missiles will see you.
> 
> I predict, we will see space telescopes looking down on earth, and being able to detect every flying thing on the planet within our lifetime.


Pretty sure we can already do that...


----------



## aviator_fan

alimobin memon said:


> Its clear media is suppressing truth. Intellectuals influencers like Elon Musk, Jordan peterson etc etc know and thats why there tweets are clear that something else is going.


You are concerned about westerm media: the media in Russia is a state controlled mouthpiece. Why don't you worry about them.
Elon Musk is a smart guy but not an intellectual influencer with picture of turd emojies that he uses to troll the CEO of Twitter.
The same guy that promoted dogecoin and later admitted on Saturday Night Live it was a joke. So you can worship him, but the rest of us no that he is an intelligent guy that shoots from the hip. Intellectuals don't show up on comedy shows.

He is not an intellectual no more than Putin is Mother Theresa.



Dalit said:


> When are you coming to Pakistan to confiscate the nukes? LOL Take a hike son of Hitler. You are on the wrong forum twat. This isn't a far right Nazi forum in case you are lost.
> 
> 
> 
> Just have a look at how many of these American and Europhiles have ganged up on PDF LOL The irony... A Pakistani defence forum where a bunch of American and Europeans are trying to fight their keyboard wars. These suckers have found a forum where they can vent their frustration. These topics need to be archived so that we can name and shame them. Remind them how triggered they were. An NFT should be made out of this thread.
> 
> Too bad most aren't buying their BS apart from a handful of uncle Tom's.


I am not American and European. But I am also not a moron. The 'F' in PDF is 'forum' not 'fist'. 
Forum by definition is where people with different perspectives come in and won't agree. There are people here that have tactical knowledge on the war, regardless of who they are supporting.

You are degrading the intellectual level of this discussion with your irrelevant posts as it relates to this thread. If you have something about the war to post , do it on this thread. If you are sad that imperialists are winning and Putin is not, then go get a cup of tea, calm down, and start your rant against imperialists on another thread, and I will join you (and likely support you).

But the war is going the way its going , don't degenerate this discussion like some vegetable seller at Sunday bazar talking about Hitler, Pakistan nukes blah blah.

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## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582379931983499264

Elon Musk tweet on Iranian drones

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1


----------



## aviator_fan

Viet said:


> national gas price a new low: $117.
> 
> Too much supply, little demands
> 
> What will Putin do with giant gas surpluses he can’t sell?
> 
> EU won’t buy.


What unit is this? Henry Hub unit price shows continues drop and is almost half of what it was mid-August, but I can't co-relate your unit


----------



## aviator_fan

ZeGerman said:


> Thats less then mariopol….1 city in ukraine.
> 
> And your counting casualties instead of killed. And taking into account combatants.
> And still come up short!
> I repeat. Gaza is peanuts compared to many other conflicts. Stop your hamas propaganda by putting it on some “atrocity pedestal”
> 
> if Israel would act as russia does now, then there would be no “middle east conflict”.
> Flatten all resistance with hundred and thousands of dumb artillery. Then hold false referendum with the few pro-israel that stayed. Annexed. Done. Maybe repopulate a bit for good measure.


ZeGerman, you are trying to win the argument that if more people are killed thats more just cause than when less people are killed. That makes no sense.

1. People that are violently and mercilessly attacked should have their attackers equally sanctioned.
2. The world does not start/stop at Gazans: for 50 years, they have been getting killed or equally bad fate of having to vacate land and give up homes to settlers. This settlement expansion is happening in Israel today, right under the nose of countries who look the other way, including the back stabbing GCC nations. ONLY Ben and Jerry's , a hippy ice cream company had the guts to take a stand.

Israeli annexation and resettlement is no different than Russians. This is not about one deserves more sympathy than others. 

There should not be a double standard.

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## aviator_fan

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 887639
> 
> 
> So @thetutle is not your other ID?


Same Saudi Arabia with 4th largest defence budget, but Aramco got hit in August 2019?



925boy said:


> Israel that couldnt handle Hamas last year should be wise and stay away from Ukraine - Israel doesnt have the stamina for this type of conflict, and daddy AMerica is also getting exhausted too with helping Ukraine the adoptee country (when were us Americans asked if we wanted to financially adopt a broke azz Ukraine? smfh.).


Deluded again? Have you analyzed every American's mindset or just listening to Fox. Or is this just wishful thinking. Putin also had wishful thinking about how he thought things would work out and how they actually worked out.

Senate about to approve more military aid, NATO sending EW systems, and Lockheed ramping up production of HIMARS by 30%. I learn from you when you present the Russian view (since I don't have time to go find the Russian view on my own). But don't let that braindwash you and put delusional comments that are not grounded in reality.


----------



## aviator_fan

Counter drone equipment underway.









NATO will send 'hundreds' of signal-jammers to Ukraine to counter Russia's onslaught of explosive Iranian-made suicide drones


"For Ukraine, this means more saved lives and a better protected energy infrastructure," Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said in response.




www.businessinsider.com





NATO will send 'hundreds' of signal-jammers to Ukraine to counter Russia's onslaught of explosive Iranian-made suicide drones​
When your weapon works, it works. 30% increased production for a system that Lockheed must have never thought would see action....









Lockheed making moves to increase HIMARS production to 96 per year - Breaking Defense


Lockheed’s High Mobility Artillery Rocket System and Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) — as well as the the Javelin anti-tank missile system it co-produces with Raytheon — are seeing “significant” interest from foreign customers and the US military, Lockheed CEO Jim Taiclet said.




breakingdefense.com





 Lockheed making moves to increase HIMARS production to 96 per year ​Lockheed’s High Mobility Artillery Rocket System and Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) — as well as the the Javelin anti-tank missile system it co-produces with Raytheon — are seeing “significant” interest from foreign customers and the US military, Lockheed CEO Jim Taiclet said.​By Valerie Insinna on October 18, 2022 at 4:48 PM






Soldiers with the 4th Battalion of the 133rd Field Artillery Regiment rehearse launching operations with a M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System at Fort Hood, Texas, July 16, 2018. (Staff Sgt. Michael Giles/US Army National Guard)
WASHINGTON — Lockheed Martin is dialing up production of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System amid the Ukrainian military’s success in using the system to fend off Russian forces over the past few months.
Lockheed plans to ramp up HIMARS production from 60 to 96 units per year and has already taken steps to expedite production of the new launchers in expectation of higher demand, Lockheed CEO Jim Taiclet announced during an earnings call today.
The company has met with its long lead supply chain and spent $65 million — which will eventually be paid back by the US government — to fund parts in advance, shortening the time needed to manufacture the rocket system, he said. “That was without a contract or any other memo or whatnot back from the government. We just went ahead and did that because we expected it to happen. So those parts are already being manufactured now,” he said.

The US Army has telegraphed a requirement to increase HIMARS production to 96 launchers per year through a request for information published this summer. According to the solicitation, the service could sustain a maximum annual production rate of 96 units through fiscal 2028.
As of Oct. 14, the United States had committed 38 HIMARS to Ukraine since Russia’s invaded the country in February, the Defense Department said in a factsheet. Of that total, 20 HIMARS have been provided to Ukraine through the presidential drawdown authority, which sources them from the US military’s existing stockpile.

The department is purchasing the remaining 18 HIMARS as part of a $1 billion arms package funded by the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which was announced in September. Those launchers have yet to be produced by Lockheed and could take “years” to deliver to Ukraine, a Pentagon official said at the time.
This summer, the Pentagon praised the rocket system, which has a range of about 40 miles depending on the munition, as having a “significant impact,” allowing Ukrainian forces to strike more distant Russian military targets than its previous artillery allowed.






Land Warfare,  Sponsored
Better fighting vehicles and trucks are in the Army’s future; American Rheinmetall has transformational solutions for each​Part of what makes American Rheinmetall’s approach transformational is that they prioritized enabling future growth — what the Army calls persistent modernization — in every part of their design.
From Breaking Defense
The war in Ukraine has ramped up demand for precision fire capability across the board, with Lockheed’s HIMARS and Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) — as well as the the Javelin anti-tank missile system it co-produces with Raytheon — all seeing “significant” interest from foreign customers as well as the US military, as it seeks to refill its own stocks, Taiclet said.
The company is modernizing the Camden, Ark.-based facility where it produces weapons such as HIMARS and has begun cross-training its employees to work across multiple product lines, he said.
Some weapon systems have already undergone a bump to production since the start of the year, with HIMARS moving from an annual rate of about 48 to 60 launchers since the conflict started, Lockheed officials have previously stated.
“We’re putting the best and newest manufacturing technology into some of these product lines first so that when the ramp comes, we can pivot to it quicker,” Taiclet said.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> ? I don't recall any discussion about Chinese GPS with you.
> 
> What I am reminding you that Putin went into take over capital, install a friendly Govt and make it a satellite state like it was under USSR. Instead he has 20% of territory. May be this is how people living under dictators define victory. Wonderful!



It's a multireply post, it's for another cheerleader. Victory? It's already a victory for China now, let you bozos fight Russia. Lol

Imagine a Russia in NATO, we would be fcked big time.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582541980118065155

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582258364976799744

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4


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582514462447132672

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2


----------



## LeGenD

925boy said:


> Israel that couldnt handle Hamas last year should be wise and stay away from Ukraine - Israel doesnt have the stamina for this type of conflict, and daddy AMerica is also getting exhausted too with helping Ukraine the adoptee country (when were us Americans asked if we wanted to financially adopt a broke azz Ukraine? smfh.).


Your views are FAR OFF from reality. Who feeds you with so much BS all the time?

US is getting exhausted in Ukraine? Based on what exactly?

Gaza (Palestine) is not equipped to fight a war with Israel but exists on world map because of international support and sympathy.

You should thank Egypt for resolving 2021 Israel-Palestine standoff:









2021 Israel–Palestine crisis - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





But Israel have slowly gobbled up Palestinian lands to such an extent that only one-state solution sounds feasible now.

How many Hezbollah and Iranians Israel have killed in Syria in recent years by the way? Have you been in touch?

Damn, you made me speak in favor of Israel - something that I do not want to do.

I suspect you are intentionally trolling. Stop trolling in this thread, or you will be booted from this thread. Temporary strike issued.

When you come back, try to be realistic and levelheaded for a change.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

aviator_fan said:


> Counter drone equipment underway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO will send 'hundreds' of signal-jammers to Ukraine to counter Russia's onslaught of explosive Iranian-made suicide drones
> 
> 
> "For Ukraine, this means more saved lives and a better protected energy infrastructure," Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said in response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO will send 'hundreds' of signal-jammers to Ukraine to counter Russia's onslaught of explosive Iranian-made suicide drones​
> When your weapon works, it works. 30% increased production for a system that Lockheed must have never thought would see action....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lockheed making moves to increase HIMARS production to 96 per year - Breaking Defense
> 
> 
> Lockheed’s High Mobility Artillery Rocket System and Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) — as well as the the Javelin anti-tank missile system it co-produces with Raytheon — are seeing “significant” interest from foreign customers and the US military, Lockheed CEO Jim Taiclet said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> breakingdefense.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lockheed making moves to increase HIMARS production to 96 per year​Lockheed’s High Mobility Artillery Rocket System and Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) — as well as the the Javelin anti-tank missile system it co-produces with Raytheon — are seeing “significant” interest from foreign customers and the US military, Lockheed CEO Jim Taiclet said.​By Valerie Insinna on October 18, 2022 at 4:48 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soldiers with the 4th Battalion of the 133rd Field Artillery Regiment rehearse launching operations with a M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System at Fort Hood, Texas, July 16, 2018. (Staff Sgt. Michael Giles/US Army National Guard)
> WASHINGTON — Lockheed Martin is dialing up production of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System amid the Ukrainian military’s success in using the system to fend off Russian forces over the past few months.
> Lockheed plans to ramp up HIMARS production from 60 to 96 units per year and has already taken steps to expedite production of the new launchers in expectation of higher demand, Lockheed CEO Jim Taiclet announced during an earnings call today.
> The company has met with its long lead supply chain and spent $65 million — which will eventually be paid back by the US government — to fund parts in advance, shortening the time needed to manufacture the rocket system, he said. “That was without a contract or any other memo or whatnot back from the government. We just went ahead and did that because we expected it to happen. So those parts are already being manufactured now,” he said.
> 
> The US Army has telegraphed a requirement to increase HIMARS production to 96 launchers per year through a request for information published this summer. According to the solicitation, the service could sustain a maximum annual production rate of 96 units through fiscal 2028.
> As of Oct. 14, the United States had committed 38 HIMARS to Ukraine since Russia’s invaded the country in February, the Defense Department said in a factsheet. Of that total, 20 HIMARS have been provided to Ukraine through the presidential drawdown authority, which sources them from the US military’s existing stockpile.
> 
> The department is purchasing the remaining 18 HIMARS as part of a $1 billion arms package funded by the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which was announced in September. Those launchers have yet to be produced by Lockheed and could take “years” to deliver to Ukraine, a Pentagon official said at the time.
> This summer, the Pentagon praised the rocket system, which has a range of about 40 miles depending on the munition, as having a “significant impact,” allowing Ukrainian forces to strike more distant Russian military targets than its previous artillery allowed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Land Warfare,  Sponsored
> Better fighting vehicles and trucks are in the Army’s future; American Rheinmetall has transformational solutions for each​Part of what makes American Rheinmetall’s approach transformational is that they prioritized enabling future growth — what the Army calls persistent modernization — in every part of their design.
> From Breaking Defense
> The war in Ukraine has ramped up demand for precision fire capability across the board, with Lockheed’s HIMARS and Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) — as well as the the Javelin anti-tank missile system it co-produces with Raytheon — all seeing “significant” interest from foreign customers as well as the US military, as it seeks to refill its own stocks, Taiclet said.
> The company is modernizing the Camden, Ark.-based facility where it produces weapons such as HIMARS and has begun cross-training its employees to work across multiple product lines, he said.
> Some weapon systems have already undergone a bump to production since the start of the year, with HIMARS moving from an annual rate of about 48 to 60 launchers since the conflict started, Lockheed officials have previously stated.
> “We’re putting the best and newest manufacturing technology into some of these product lines first so that when the ramp comes, we can pivot to it quicker,” Taiclet said.




HIMARS has proven to be the STAR weapon in this war. It completely changed the momentum in Ukraines favor. 

And HIMARS is about to get ALOT more capable with the introduction of GMLRS-ER and Precision Strike Missile next year. 

Increased production is definitely warranted.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

aviator_fan said:


> Counter drone equipment underway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO will send 'hundreds' of signal-jammers to Ukraine to counter Russia's onslaught of explosive Iranian-made suicide drones
> 
> 
> "For Ukraine, this means more saved lives and a better protected energy infrastructure," Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said in response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO will send 'hundreds' of signal-jammers to Ukraine to counter Russia's onslaught of explosive Iranian-made suicide drones​
> When your weapon works, it works. 30% increased production for a system that Lockheed must have never thought would see action....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lockheed making moves to increase HIMARS production to 96 per year - Breaking Defense
> 
> 
> Lockheed’s High Mobility Artillery Rocket System and Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) — as well as the the Javelin anti-tank missile system it co-produces with Raytheon — are seeing “significant” interest from foreign customers and the US military, Lockheed CEO Jim Taiclet said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> breakingdefense.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lockheed making moves to increase HIMARS production to 96 per year​Lockheed’s High Mobility Artillery Rocket System and Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) — as well as the the Javelin anti-tank missile system it co-produces with Raytheon — are seeing “significant” interest from foreign customers and the US military, Lockheed CEO Jim Taiclet said.​By Valerie Insinna on October 18, 2022 at 4:48 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soldiers with the 4th Battalion of the 133rd Field Artillery Regiment rehearse launching operations with a M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System at Fort Hood, Texas, July 16, 2018. (Staff Sgt. Michael Giles/US Army National Guard)
> WASHINGTON — Lockheed Martin is dialing up production of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System amid the Ukrainian military’s success in using the system to fend off Russian forces over the past few months.
> Lockheed plans to ramp up HIMARS production from 60 to 96 units per year and has already taken steps to expedite production of the new launchers in expectation of higher demand, Lockheed CEO Jim Taiclet announced during an earnings call today.
> The company has met with its long lead supply chain and spent $65 million — which will eventually be paid back by the US government — to fund parts in advance, shortening the time needed to manufacture the rocket system, he said. “That was without a contract or any other memo or whatnot back from the government. We just went ahead and did that because we expected it to happen. So those parts are already being manufactured now,” he said.
> 
> The US Army has telegraphed a requirement to increase HIMARS production to 96 launchers per year through a request for information published this summer. According to the solicitation, the service could sustain a maximum annual production rate of 96 units through fiscal 2028.
> As of Oct. 14, the United States had committed 38 HIMARS to Ukraine since Russia’s invaded the country in February, the Defense Department said in a factsheet. Of that total, 20 HIMARS have been provided to Ukraine through the presidential drawdown authority, which sources them from the US military’s existing stockpile.
> 
> The department is purchasing the remaining 18 HIMARS as part of a $1 billion arms package funded by the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which was announced in September. Those launchers have yet to be produced by Lockheed and could take “years” to deliver to Ukraine, a Pentagon official said at the time.
> This summer, the Pentagon praised the rocket system, which has a range of about 40 miles depending on the munition, as having a “significant impact,” allowing Ukrainian forces to strike more distant Russian military targets than its previous artillery allowed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Land Warfare,  Sponsored
> Better fighting vehicles and trucks are in the Army’s future; American Rheinmetall has transformational solutions for each​Part of what makes American Rheinmetall’s approach transformational is that they prioritized enabling future growth — what the Army calls persistent modernization — in every part of their design.
> From Breaking Defense
> The war in Ukraine has ramped up demand for precision fire capability across the board, with Lockheed’s HIMARS and Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) — as well as the the Javelin anti-tank missile system it co-produces with Raytheon — all seeing “significant” interest from foreign customers as well as the US military, as it seeks to refill its own stocks, Taiclet said.
> The company is modernizing the Camden, Ark.-based facility where it produces weapons such as HIMARS and has begun cross-training its employees to work across multiple product lines, he said.
> Some weapon systems have already undergone a bump to production since the start of the year, with HIMARS moving from an annual rate of about 48 to 60 launchers since the conflict started, Lockheed officials have previously stated.
> “We’re putting the best and newest manufacturing technology into some of these product lines first so that when the ramp comes, we can pivot to it quicker,” Taiclet said.



This escalation clearly points to a certain level of panic on the part of Western policymakers. And the only recent shift in the war that we've witnessed can be summarized: 1) Russia carrying out partial mobilization of their reserve forces; 2) their new bombings that have/are taken out Ukrainian power, energy, and rail infrastructure; 3) and the entry of Iranian-made drones into the conflict. 

And if and when Iranian-built Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar ballistic missiles enter the conflict, we'll have to see how much further panic the West's WAR party will show. I'm pretty much looking forward to seeing how much these below skirt-wearing "generals" will escalate. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582226374450122752

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## ZeGerman

aviator_fan said:


> ZeGerman, you are trying to win the argument that if more people are killed thats more just cause than when less people are killed. That makes no sense.
> 
> 1. People that are violently and mercilessly attacked should have their attackers equally sanctioned.
> 2. The world does not start/stop at Gazans: for 50 years, they have been getting killed or equally bad fate of having to vacate land and give up homes to settlers. This settlement expansion is happening in Israel today, right under the nose of countries who look the other way, including the back stabbing GCC nations. ONLY Ben and Jerry's , a hippy ice cream company had the guts to take a stand.
> 
> Israeli annexation and resettlement is no different than Russians. This is not about one deserves more sympathy than others.
> 
> There should not be a double standard.


Oh no my intention is to place the conflicts in perspective. And go against false narratives (incomparable to the horror of gaza. 20 times more dead etc etc) 


Apart from numbers, things like actions and intent also greatly matter. Perhaps moreso. 
However…on this aspect…the palestinian cause has complicated matters by falling to terrorism so often. But that is for another thread.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582434705093193729
I'm pretty much looking forward to how much panic we can observe in the Western camp. Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar ballistic missiles are indeed game-changing weapons. If the news is true, let us see if they are shipped in large numbers.



F-22Raptor said:


> HIMARS has proven to be the STAR weapon in this war. It completely changed the momentum in Ukraines favor.
> 
> And HIMARS is about to get ALOT more capable with the introduction of GMLRS-ER and Precision Strike Missile next year.
> 
> Increased production is definitely warranted.




HIMARS are getting taken out by Russian air defense systems. Too late, Russians have already figured out how to knock out your beloved "HIMARS". 👇 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582514462447132672

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## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> Been lurking for over 10 years, when mental midgets like you run your mouth I’m inclined to educate



You are getting a sound beating in Ukraine. We took you apart in Afghanistan. Not my words, but your own media and generals have been claiming this for 2 decades. Joey recently went bonkers about Pakistani nuclear weapons LOL What is it that you guys want because you seem a little confused...

LOL Now we have fatty burger eating rednecks suddenly running around on a Pakistani defence forum pretending all is well LMAO

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> It's a multireply post, it's for another cheerleader. Victory? It's already a victory for China now, let you bozos fight Russia. Lol
> 
> Imagine a Russia in NATO, we would be fcked big time.


Genius: this thread is about NATO and Ukraine and Russia. China , despite what you think, is not relevant. Its military capabilities may be like North Koreas or it may be the best in the world. In eitehr case its not relevant here on this thread.

With the rest of your rant, you are Deluded like your leadership thats announced emperor Xi for the third time and launched a carrier with Naval aviation that can't conduct night operations just so it can do some minor power projection in its backyard. Yes keep on getting brainwashed, it doesn't change the outcome of the world just because you are inflated on party propaganda and because you can't voice any disagreement in China you show up here to vent.

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## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> Mexico should probably remain silent as the cartels run the country, the president has no power
> 
> 
> How much territory has Russia gained in the last month?
> I’ll wait



1. Pakistan should remain silent and handover its nukes to papa USA.
2. Mexico should remain silent and not conduct any foreign policy.
3. China shouldn't develop at a rapid pace and pretend India and USA are the only superpowers in the world.
4. Russia should remain silent and let Europe/US encroach in its neighborhood?
5. Iran should remain silent and let Americans/Europeans come in and to do as they wish.

Did I miss anything?

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## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> What you can’t accept a counter point of view?



You guys realistically don't belong here. This isn't some KKK forum bud. You are at the wrong place.

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> 1. Pakistan should remain silent and handover its nukes to papa USA.
> 2. Mexico should remain silent and not conduct any foreign policy.
> 3. China shouldn't develop at a rapid pace and pretend India and USA are the only superpowers in the world.
> 4. Russia should remain silent and let Europe/US encroach in its neighborhood?
> 5. Iran should remain silent and let Americans/Europeans come in and to do as they wish.
> 
> Did I miss anything?


Yes you took a wrong turn somewhere and ended up on this thread to spew garbage that has no relevance to the war taking place. Don't have you have any knowledge on strength or Russian or NATO weapons, or weakness of either doctrine instead of screaming crap.



Dalit said:


> You guys realistically don't belong here. This isn't some KKK forum bud. You are at the wrong place.


Who made you king? Are you a professional loser that you come here claiming that this forum and this thread is yours? Who the hell gave you internet access? Some loser can claim that you don't belong on the internet.

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## Viet

aviator_fan said:


> What unit is this? Henry Hub unit price shows continues drop and is almost half of what it was mid-August, but I can't co-relate your unit


On the ICE the price is per MWh in Nov 22 delivery. One month from now. That’s the most watched quote.


----------



## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This escalation clearly points to a certain level of panic on the part of Western policymakers. And the only recent shift in the war that we've witnessed can be summarized: 1) Russia carrying out partial mobilization of their reserve forces; 2) their new bombings that have/are taken out Ukrainian power, energy, and rail infrastructure; 3) and the entry of Iranian-made drones into the conflict.
> 
> And if and when Iranian-built Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar ballistic missiles enter the conflict, we'll have to see how much further panic the West's WAR party will show. I'm pretty much looking forward to seeing how much these below skirt-wearing "generals" will escalate. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582226374450122752


If ramping up production to augment working weapon systems is panic, then by definition Russia is in crisis mode to have taken out T62s and bring in weapons from Iran and N. Korea.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582514462447132672


NO video? We are going to base the theory on a few lines. Come on, they take out a tank and there is a video. 6 HIMARS may be true but only believable if there is video. Any idiot can type up fiction.

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582434705093193729
> I'm pretty much looking forward to how much panic we can observe in the Western camp. Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar ballistic missiles are indeed game-changing weapons. If the news is true, let us see if they are shipped in large numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HIMARS are getting taken out by Russian air defense systems. Too late, Russians have already figured out how to knock out your beloved "HIMARS". 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582514462447132672


The West will step up air defense delivery.

Military worthless to bomb civil infra.

The US dropped 10x more bombs on Vietnam than allied forces dropped on Germany in WW2. And lost the war.


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## Dalit

Oh what a joy to start the morning like this. Your reap what you sow. A good taste of your own medicine. Now you know what it feels like.



aviator_fan said:


> Yes you took a wrong turn somewhere and ended up on this thread to spew garbage that has no relevance to the war taking place. Don't have you have any knowledge on strength or Russian or NATO weapons, or weakness of either doctrine instead of screaming crap.
> 
> 
> Who made you king? Are you a professional loser that you come here claiming that this forum and this thread is yours? Who the hell gave you internet access? Some loser can claim that you don't belong on the internet.



So, why doesn't NATO send its forces to Ukraine to fight Russia? You claim that NATO has superhuman abilities. What good are these abilities if you have to do the fighting on behalf of NATO in cyberspace.

When are you fatty rednecks coming to get Pakistan's nukes? Papa Joe is having sleepless nights LOL

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## LeGenD

Members are advised to stay on topic.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582434705093193729
> I'm pretty much looking forward to how much panic we can observe in the Western camp. Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar ballistic missiles are indeed game-changing weapons. If the news is true, let us see if they are shipped in large numbers.


What panic? We see civilian infra being targeted. We send more materials. Russia is only backing itself into the corner more.

And iran is losing its “suprise” capabilities. Nato will study everything carefully.


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> HIMARS are getting taken out by Russian air defense systems. Too late, Russians have already figured out how to knock out your beloved "HIMARS". 👇


Sure according to the russians all HIMARS have been destroyed thrice already. And we saw how they blocked all rockets with the antonov bridge. Like literally the bridge.

Also it is highly likely there was no attack at all. Russia is using fake news to justify their attacks on civil infrastructure, and in this case..their upcoming evacuation from Kherson.

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## MeFishToo

Viet said:


> On the ICE the price is per MWh in Nov 22 delivery. One month from now. That’s the most watched quote.








Panic seems to have left the market somewhat.


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## Dalit

LOL I still remember how initially the Americans and Europeans in this topic used to boast how Russia would kneel in a few weeks. Russian economy would be destroyed in a matter of days. Russia wouldn't be able to sustain the war. Russian soldiers have no chance. The Ukrainians would be enough to put the Russians in their place. 7 months on and we are in a different phase where Russia has conquered vast Ukrainian land. Surely Russia has taken losses, but if we weigh the losses against the wins Russia is clearly ahead. The talk has changed from Russia would kneel to let's sanction Iran who is providing very useful and cost-effective kamikaze drones to Russia. The impact of Iranian drones has been underestimated. Russia is suddenly not depleting expensive cruise missiles to attack Ukraine, but utilizing much cheaper Iranian drones to great effect. Russia is on a daily basis pouncing Ukrainian hideouts and critical infrastructure with ease. Crippling Ukrainian capabilities each hour.

To make matters worse, the most fierce allies of the West i.e. India and alike are displaying open neutrality. When it is crunch time at the UN no developing nation has come forward to support Western stance. The Europeans are also feeling the pinch. The war has impacted ordinary households. Inflation is sky high. The capitalist system that thrives on a falacy and was going to collapse sooner than later is also crumbling. The war in Ukraine has only accelerated the inevitable. Western countries are openly threatening developing nations to pick their side. Yet many developing nations are opting not do so.

If this isn't a sea change I don't know what is.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582625010820460545

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## hadi1990

war in first place is an insane choice , but human kind has seen war since at the dawn of our existence in life the sons of our main father fell to fight and one killed the other ! there might be a side with some thing right and another said to be wrong but no one is good in a war, nothing will be better than ending the war... the scale of this war disaster is still under estimated, the west will suck soon, USA also and the whole world will go back 20 years in economy ... and maybe worse... the best thing is to go to negotiations and stop this hellllllllll.
Elon Musk proposals are a sound basis for peace in ukraine.....
else every other day is a growing disaster

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## Primus

LeGenD said:


> Members are advised to stay on topic.


Bruh, zegerman and ap richelieu have been doing nothing but derailing this entire thread. They have just been making what about ism and islamophobic posts.

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582625010820460545



And a decent military would have drones that could fire missiles to "home" in on the jammers themselves 

The future of drone warfare is just beginning ... ( and China is the largest manufacturer of drones in the world - food for thought ).

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## MMM-E

Shahed-136 use Chinese engine and USA - European origin COTS electronic components

GNSS receiver COTS module,
and flight computer is with Texas Instruments TMS320 processor


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Russia does not deserves to exist in its current form who is with me? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582425561389223936

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## Ali_Baba

>> Nice simple explanation for those individuals who just dont get it right now of how badly this was/is F.U.B.A.R'ed for Russia ...

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## sammuel

MMM-E said:


> Shahed-136 use Chinese engine and USA - European origin COTS electronic components
> 
> GNSS receiver COTS module,
> and flight computer is with Texas Instruments TMS320 processor
> 
> View attachment 887733













American CPUs found in Iran-made kamikaze drones


ECONOMICHNA PRAVDA - MONDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2022, 14:53 Iran-made Shahed-131 kamikaze drones contain processors manufactured by Texas Instruments, the U.S. company. This is stated in the information posted by the Department of Strategic Communications of the Office of the Commander-in-Chief of the...




www.yahoo.com






~

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## Reashot Xigwin

Islamophobic Russian getting karmaed in the end. Notice not one Muslim member here will criticize Russian bigotry against their Muslim neighbor. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581754331057262592

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## Titanium100

Dalit said:


> LOL I still remember how initially the Americans and Europeans in this topic used to boast how Russia would kneel in a few weeks. Russian economy would be destroyed in a matter of days. Russia wouldn't be able to sustain the war. Russian soldiers have no chance. The Ukrainians would be enough to put the Russians in their place. 7 months on and we are in a different phase where Russia has conquered vast Ukrainian land. Surely Russia has taken losses, but if we weigh the losses against the wins Russia is clearly ahead. The talk has changed from Russia would kneel to let's sanction Iran who is providing very useful and cost-effective kamikaze drones to Russia. The impact of Iranian drones has been underestimated. Russia is suddenly not depleting expensive cruise missiles to attack Ukraine, but utilizing much cheaper Iranian drones to great effect. Russia is on a daily basis pouncing Ukrainian hideouts and critical infrastructure with ease. Crippling Ukrainian capabilities each hour.
> 
> To make matters worse, the most fierce allies of the West i.e. India and alike are displaying open neutrality. When it is crunch time at the UN no developing nation has come forward to support Western stance. The Europeans are also feeling the pinch. The war has impacted ordinary households. Inflation is sky high. The capitalist system that thrives on a falacy and was going to collapse sooner than later is also crumbling. The war in Ukraine has only accelerated the inevitable. Western countries are openly threatening developing nations to pick their side. Yet many developing nations are opting not do so.
> 
> If this isn't a sea change I don't know what is.



You know what your problem is every topic you find ways to make it about Pakistan and Pakistan local politics.. You hijack complete different topics... This is international arena..

In your view point only Pakistan exists in the world and Pakistan has to be insert where there is none

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## jhungary




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## ZeGerman

Ali_Baba said:


> >> Nice simple explanation for those individuals who just dont get it right now of how badly this was/is F.U.B.A.R'ed for Russia ...


This. It is a geopolitical nightmare for russia. And once gas/oil prices drop their economy will be hit by a freight truck.

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## alimobin memon

aviator_fan said:


> You are concerned about westerm media: the media in Russia is a state controlled mouthpiece. Why don't you worry about them.
> Elon Musk is a smart guy but not an intellectual influencer with picture of turd emojies that he uses to troll the CEO of Twitter.
> The same guy that promoted dogecoin and later admitted on Saturday Night Live it was a joke. So you can worship him, but the rest of us no that he is an intelligent guy that shoots from the hip. Intellectuals don't show up on comedy shows.
> 
> He is not an intellectual no more than Putin is Mother Theresa.
> 
> 
> I am not American and European. But I am also not a moron. The 'F' in PDF is 'forum' not 'fist'.
> Forum by definition is where people with different perspectives come in and won't agree. There are people here that have tactical knowledge on the war, regardless of who they are supporting.
> 
> You are degrading the intellectual level of this discussion with your irrelevant posts as it relates to this thread. If you have something about the war to post , do it on this thread. If you are sad that imperialists are winning and Putin is not, then go get a cup of tea, calm down, and start your rant against imperialists on another thread, and I will join you (and likely support you).
> 
> But the war is going the way its going , don't degenerate this discussion like some vegetable seller at Sunday bazar talking about Hitler, Pakistan nukes blah blah.


Worried. I dont care about Russia as people think here but I still wont believe that it is in loosing side. I just meant that Western media is showing only one side. Ofcourse Russian state media will post mostly things that are not against their country.

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> You are getting a sound beating in Ukraine. We took you apart in Afghanistan. Not my words, but your own media and generals have been claiming this for 2 decades. Joey recently went bonkers about Pakistani nuclear weapons LOL What is it that you guys want because you seem a little confused...
> 
> LOL Now we have fatty burger eating rednecks suddenly running around on a Pakistani defence forum pretending all is well LMAO


I’m not fat and I love burgers.
Way to change the topic as expected 🙄
Who’s getting a sound beating? 
America is only supplying hand me downs and Russia or whoever “we” are has shown the world to be a paper bear by being unable to handle a second rate army with a fraction of nato weaponry.
These are facts my friend, again here to educate but I doubt that’s possible with you



Dalit said:


> You guys realistically don't belong here. This isn't some KKK forum bud. You are at the wrong place.


Even more of a reason to be here, why don’t you ban me then 🤣 
Racist much?


----------



## RoadAmerica

hadi1990 said:


> war in first place is an insane choice , but human kind has seen war since at the dawn of our existence in life the sons of our main father fell to fight and one killed the other ! there might be a side with some thing right and another said to be wrong but no one is good in a war, nothing will be better than ending the war... the scale of this war disaster is still under estimated, the west will suck soon, USA also and the whole world will go back 20 years in economy ... and maybe worse... the best thing is to go to negotiations and stop this hellllllllll.
> Elon Musk proposals are a sound basis for peace in ukraine.....
> else every other day is a growing disaster


Keep dreaming 😂


----------



## Ali_Baba

Putin declares martial law in all annexed Ukrainian regions in desperate bid for control​








Putin declares martial law in occupied Ukraine


Vladimir Putin has today declared martial law in occupied Ukraine as his cronies began evacuating civilians from the city of Kherson, with Ukraine thought to be on the verge of re-taking it.




www.dailymail.co.uk












Putin declares martial law in all annexed Ukrainian regions


Martial law is when military authority is temporarily put in place of civilian rule.




www.express.co.uk





>> things are going from bad to worse for Putin ( so much for being greated with "open arms" by Ukranians ) with Moscow imposing martial law in the occupied terrorities ... local resistance is eating into his ability to maintain the occupation ....

>> Talk of putin setting off a nuke over the Black sea to prove his _manliness/_and masculinity( ergo the agiling stockpile of nukes) is still intact ........

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## _Nabil_

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin declares martial law in all annexed Ukrainian regions in desperate bid for control​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin declares martial law in occupied Ukraine
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin has today declared martial law in occupied Ukraine as his cronies began evacuating civilians from the city of Kherson, with Ukraine thought to be on the verge of re-taking it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin declares martial law in all annexed Ukrainian regions
> 
> 
> Martial law is when military authority is temporarily put in place of civilian rule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> things are going from bad to worse for Putin ( so much for being greated with "open arms" by Ukranians ) with Moscow imposing martial law in the occupied terrorities ... local resistance is eating into his ability to maintain the occupation ....
> 
> >> Talk of putin setting off a nuke over the Black sea to prove his _manliness/_and masculinity( ergo the agiling stockpile of nukes) is still intact ........


A whole national security council held, to give such futiles decisions?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582716901557665792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582717229522890752

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582712521789964290

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## zartosht

MMM-E said:


> Shahed-136 use Chinese engine and USA - European origin COTS electronic components
> 
> GNSS receiver COTS module,
> and flight computer is with Texas Instruments TMS320 processor
> 
> View attachment 887733





sammuel said:


> American CPUs found in Iran-made kamikaze drones
> 
> 
> ECONOMICHNA PRAVDA - MONDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2022, 14:53 Iran-made Shahed-131 kamikaze drones contain processors manufactured by Texas Instruments, the U.S. company. This is stated in the information posted by the Department of Strategic Communications of the Office of the Commander-in-Chief of the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Hahahahahha the evolution of butthurt^

-First Iranian drones were fake/sucked
-Then super dooper western winderweapos would make easy work of them
-now they are praying that Iran was dumb enough to make its weapons dependent on western tech…

Whats the next fantasy you gonna come up with?

Do you simpletons really believe that Iran doesnt have a work around? Iran is absolutely obsessed with self suffiency. Iran has never forgotten how its state of the art american military became useless overnight when cutoff. 

And this is a basic (but ingenious) weapon

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582716901557665792
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582717229522890752



Very expensive way of dealing with such drones - until of course all the jammers/EW interference equipment turns up and is operationalised. So - there is a small window where they will be effective for sure.


----------



## MMM-E

zartosht said:


> Hahahahahha the evolution of butthurt^
> 
> -First Iranian drones were fake/sucked
> -Then super dooper western winderweapos would make easy work of them
> -now they are praying that Iran was dumb enough to make its weapons dependent on western tech…
> 
> Whats the next fantasy you gonna come up with?
> 
> Do you simpletons really believe that Iran doesnt have a work around? Iran is absolutely obsessed with self suffiency. Iran has never forgotten how its state of the art american military became useless overnight when cutoff.
> 
> And this is a basic (but ingenious) weapon



Without American Texas Instruments TMS320 processor and GNSS receiver COTS module , İranian Shahed-136 is flying shit ..... nothing else

and İranian Shahed-136 is for terror attacks on civilians in Ukraine

so easy to shoot down Shahed-136 by İsraeli and Turkish Air Defense Systems
but this is not our war

USA-France-Germany should deploy Air Defense Systems in Ukraine to hunt Shahed-136 like fly

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## Primus

Reashot Xigwin said:


> As opposed to you people faking concern about Palestinian? I know you don't really about care about the Palestinian. They just prop for you people to use.
> 
> so does the UN sent investigation team that claim that China does not give unrestricted access to the UN fact finding mission. Therefore blocking any investigation.
> 
> Fun fact: I been consistently calling out every Muslims oppression uyghur, Palestine, rohingya, kurds even Yazidi & I'm an Atheist.
> 
> You people are not Muslims if you get to pick & choose which Muslim you want to protect & which one you want to throw under the bus.


So standing with and sending aid to the Palestinians does not equate to showing concern for them. Amazing logic. Literally using personal opinions over facts to form your arguments. 

Another graduate of the university of Wikipedia. What are you French?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582690130170507264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580179712324042752

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582735047412813824

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582697910550290433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582697427056078848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582562754455797760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582527275903291393

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## Reashot Xigwin

Primus said:


> So standing with and sending aid to the Palestinians does not equate to showing concern for them. Amazing logic. Literally using personal opinions over facts to form your arguments.
> 
> Another graduate of the university of Wikipedia. What are you French?


Did you do the same with the uyghur? If u don't, then you lost any right to criticize the West or anyone ever again. This is your logic btw. I'm just using it against you.

You don't give a hoot about the Palestinian. Period. They just prop for you to virtue signal against the west.

The Russian are literally raping babies in Ukraine & you virtue signal about the Palestinian?



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582735047412813824


Uhhh *chef kiss* more please

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582670888167620608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582732737890263040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582730630516703233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582706358738034688

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## Reashot Xigwin

A polite reminder that Israel would not exist today if it not for western support:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582713780361838594

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## Primus

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Did you do the same with the uyghur? If u don't, then you lost any right to criticize the West or anyone ever again. This is your logic btw. I'm just using it against you.
> 
> You don't give a hoot about the Palestinian. Period. They just prop for you to virtue signal against the west.
> 
> The Russian are literally raping babies in Ukraine & you virtue signal about the Palestinian?


My view on the Uyghurs stands in line with my view on the Palestinians. Uyghurs have my support, just like the Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqis etc etc. As for the Russians? You think I support them? You fool. Why would I support the nation which oppressed and killed the Chechens, supports India and is currently bombing the crap out of Syria?


----------



## Paul2

_Nabil_ said:


> A whole national security council held, to give such futiles decisions?


 Exactly, they only do that for publicity.

They have been declaring all kinds of special regimes to no effect on the ground.

I believe they did so not because they have any deliberate intent, but because they must show they are doing something, and reacting.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

& the genocide denialism from the Russian starts again

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582678714810511361


----------



## Paul2

MMM-E said:


> Shahed-136 use Chinese engine and USA - European origin COTS electronic components
> 
> GNSS receiver COTS module,
> and flight computer is with Texas Instruments TMS320 processor
> 
> View attachment 887733



That's quite sophisticated, people must to admit, Iranians have not "bought the drone off taobao"


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Primus said:


> My view on the Uyghurs stands in line with my view on the Palestinians. Uyghurs have my support, just like the Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqis etc etc. As for the Russians? You think I support them? You fool. Why would I support the nation which oppressed and killed the Chechens, supports India and is currently bombing the crap out of Syria?


Then don't mention Palestinian in a thread about Russia-ukraine war. This is what I meant by virtue signaling

The usual

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582606453676060672

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Ukraine on the other hand have VERY LIMITED Air Defence capability.



I wouldn't say so. They had hundreds of S300 launchers, and Buks, beside a the small stuff (which they actually lack the most now - shorad)

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## Primus

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Then don't mention Palestinian in a thread about Russia-ukraine war. This is what I meant by virtue signaling
> 
> The usual
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582606453676060672


What the ****? 😂😂😂

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## Reashot Xigwin

Posted this again because I like seeing dead Russian


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582722470259593219


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Primus said:


> Bruh, zegerman and ap richelieu have been doing nothing but derailing this entire thread. They have just been making what about ism and islamophobic posts.


You will find that @Englishman started derailing by comparing Ukraine with Gaza.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582657778061283328

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I wouldn't say so. They had hundreds of S300 launchers, and Buks, beside a the small stuff (which they actually lack the most now - shorad)


This would be true (well, actually, depends on what do you mean enough) if we are back in February), but after 7 months of attritions?? No way they would have enough

Ukraine HAD less than 70 system of Buk and less than 100 Batteries of S-300. That's the combine total, not operational one. 

Before the war, their operational rate is somewhat below 50% which mean only ~50% of those are serviceable, and during the war, they lost around 30 S-300 batteries and unknown number of Buk, Which put the operational unit probably into around 20-30 Buk system and around 40 S-300 still standing (not sure about their operational status) 

That is not enough to cover the entire Ukraine...


----------



## Primus

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You will find that @Englishman started derailing by comparing Ukraine with Gaza.


Okay


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Posted this again because I like seeing dead Russian
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582722470259593219





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582700287684653057
Kaboom


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582697595520311296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582695938895724544

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## Reashot Xigwin

Oh look at the poor Russian... Spare no one

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582718689811791873
Something boring & turns out sanction does work... 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582355863410421762

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## Stryker1982

Ukraine claims to have downed 223 Shaheds.

The serial#'s on the tailwings found in wreckages have not exceed 2xx. Logical fallacy. Doubtful that anywhere near 200 have been used at all so far. That would be an unsustainable rate of usage. Probably small numbers are used daily. Obvious exaggeration

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## Reashot Xigwin

I guess the Ukrainians already at the city limit... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582566696271097856

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582673129742049287

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582741180827435008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582724600257208320

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## Reashot Xigwin

Who needs NSA when you have Twitter sleuth

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582674583001632768


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Any French 🇫🇷 & German 🇩🇪 here wants to join the Russian Federation? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582679399731990528

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582753207255977987

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## Reashot Xigwin

The most well equipped Russian soldier

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582440149417271296


----------



## Shawnee

It is not enough to say 200 Shahed was hit. They must say 2000 Shahed was intercepted.

Do not admit Shahed hits power stations. Say buildings only.

Also don’t forget. Make a title that “*49 Iranian instructors were killed in a strike in Syria and Kherson”*

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582636060353306625

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582767455789023232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582683198307598336

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## ZeGerman

Russia started evacuating civilians and officers from kherson. 

Its not going to take long before kherson falls


----------



## alimobin memon

At least russian population increased after all people crossed original russia from these regions. To me ukraine infra destroyed and russian population imcrease is one kind of a way of winning. Calling it tactical retreat is not defeat.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582675254862041088

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

ZeGerman said:


> Russia started evacuating civilians and officers from kherson.
> 
> Its not going to take long before kherson falls



I think they AFU are waiting to let RUAF to start withdrawal first.


----------



## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582636060353306625


You should crowd fund some high res cameras for the Russians. Seriously, I don't know if the Russians struck an M777 or a cow grazing in the field.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582771686205554699


dbc said:


> You should crowd fund some high res cameras for the Russians. Seriously, I don't know if the Russians struck an M777 or a cow grazing in the field.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582626208923062272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582472043035242496

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582427400125964289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582777732491927557

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582778773086539776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582761485796679682

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582759943324590080

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582746060069679104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582670013500391425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582665961554948096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582643586683658241

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## zectech

WEF member Kissinger does not want war with Russia, wants Ukraine to give up territory.









Henry Kissinger: Ukraine Should Give Up Territory to Russia to Reach Peace


The former U.S. Secretary of State said to continue the war means risking destroying Europe's stability in the long term.




www.newsweek.com





Trump and Kissinger go way back. Trump is leading the "anti-deepstate resistance" for the Bush Republican Party. With the new enemy of EU and China.








Elon Musk wants Putin to get some land in Ukraine too. Musk, a BigTech deepstater that supports microchipping your brain, does not want war.









Elon Musk Can't Stop Peddling Putin Propaganda


The world’s richest man thinks the only way to avoid nuclear annihilation is to give in to Russia




www.rollingstone.com





And former Italian Prime Minister, who invented lies of Yellow Cake for war with Iraq for the Bushes is a "Best Friend Forever" with Putin. They send affectionate notes with gifts to each other.





__





Was Berlusconi Behind the Pre-Iraq War Yellow Cake Story? - Looking Glass News






www.lookingglassnews.org





Berlusconi is a Bushite and a Putinite, a European Oligarch friends with Russian Oligarchs. Same with Kissinger, Trump and Musk. Berlusconi, Kissinger, Trump and Musk support both the cia and Putin, as these are not mutually exclusive. Putin is no enemy of the cia, Putin is an asset.

Chosen by the cia operatives in Russia in the 1990s, those cia agents in Russia made the decisions for Yeltsin, Yeltsin chose Putin, so the cia chose Putin as new leader of Russia:



https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/



The Putin agenda is the destruction of the EU, which is the Trump/Republican agenda.

So this being a war of US vs Russia is a farce. The Putin Russia Republicans want to defeat Zelensky, Zelensky caused the impeachment of Trump. Republicans hate Ukraine, says Tucker Carlson.

Russia does not want to nuke friend Brexit UK, or friend cia US. Russia wants to nuke Europe, Germany or Ukraine.

It is not whitey NATO Europe that are behind the cia wars, it is the Bush Republican Putinites (Tony Blair supported Putin's genocide of Chechens) are behind these cia wars and the Ukraine War is a war the cia wants Putin to destroy the enemy and rival of the US - the EU.

Merkel: Putin Wants to Destroy Europe



https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/merkel/2022/06/07/id/1073404/



Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU









Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède


Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède




www.theguardian.com





WEF Kissinger does not want to defend the EU. cia trolls do not want to defend the EU. cia Republicans to block Ukraine aid in 2023.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582550491195506689
The war is against the EU. And the Russia Republicans hate the NATO alliance. Want the EU to fail. 8 trillion spent on Middle East Wars. How much to defend Europe. When the European nations are facing the destruction of the euro and European Union, the US cia has turned peace-nik to abandon the EU to crash.

Tucker/Russia Republicans, Musk, Trump, Berlusconi, Kissinger are on the side of China saying Ukraine needs to surrender and give up land. Let that sink in.

The US can send enough military aid for Ukraine to destroy Russia in weeks, pushing out the Russians. With the cia on Team Putin, Russia would never strike the US because of these existing relations between US and Russia.

Europeans know Putin wants more:

Putin's plan was to take Baltics, Poland after Ukraine – Arestovich​




__





Putin's plan was to take Baltics, Poland after Ukraine – Arestovich


VILNIUS – The Kremlin's plans called for capturing Ukraine and then attacking the Baltic countries and Poland and the whole of Eastern...




www.baltictimes.com





Vladimir Putin 'wants to build pro-Russia empire from Vladivostok to Portugal'​








Vladimir Putin 'wants to build pro-Russia empire from Vladivostok to Portugal'


World leaders are calling for President Vladimir Putin to be tried for war crimes but experts are concerned these horrors could continue as the despot pushes forward with a grander plan to build a sprawling empire




www.mirror.co.uk





EVIL EMPIRE
Vladimir Putin’s twisted dream of a new Russian empire stretching 10,000 miles encompassing Britain & Europe​








Vlad's twisted dream of a new Russian empire stretching 10,000 miles to the UK


VLADIMIR Putin’s twisted vision of Eurasia as an enormous Russian empire of influence, with Moscow’s power covering all of Europe and much of Asia, is helping to drive his bloody war in…




www.thesun.co.uk





Putin wants to rule the globe with the Entente. Alliance with Brexit Tory UK, Alliance with Trumper cia Bush Republicans in the US. Alliance with Le Pen and other Putinites in France. Alliance with Buddy Bibi Netanyahu in Israel. France, Russia, UK, US and Balfour Israel as the global powers. Totalitarian regimes in each of these nations. Each of these entente nations would have racism as state policy with Putin regime of Terror over politics and journalism.

The cia Russia-Republicans plan is this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578008187298451456
Voter intimidation in Florida. Voter rolls are purged in places of the south again. The Republicans are doing what Republicans do, suppress the vote via election stealing and terror.

The Chinese-Alliance is for morons. The Chinese are funny clowns in their support of Putin. Russia is not defending China from Trump. Putin hates China. The Middle East alliances is for fools, Putin is not going to defend Iran from the cia/Israel. The cia has many links and ties to Putin, inside and outside of Russia. Inside and outside of the US.


----------



## Paul2

dbc said:


> You should crowd fund some high res cameras for the Russians. Seriously, I don't know if the Russians struck an M777 or a cow grazing in the field.



I am only glad the footage comes, and confirm they have nothing else to show other than 1-2 major targets a week. Otherwise they wouldn't be trying portraying destroying a single howitzer, apc, or a tow truck as some giant victory.

On the other hand AUF have no need to prove anything now, Oryx does the job, and it says loss ratio is 1:3 to 1:4

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You do know they already did...
> 
> Otherwise how do you supposed Crimea Airfield being bombed and Belgorod being bombed??
> They don't just combust simultaneously like Russia claim....
> 
> 
> Problem is, Saudi did not deploy their entire AA Might in Yemen, you are not talking about Houthi Rebel attacking Saudi Arabia troop and target in Saudi Arabia, you are talking about a forward deployed situation in Yemen.
> 
> Traditional sense would put only 20-25% of Available Saudi Air Defence in Yemen, most of those are back in Saudi, and that still managed to shoo down majority of those drone attack.
> 
> Ukraine on the other hand have VERY LIMITED Air Defence capability. And almost all of those are put in the line and defending their troop. And that gap is going to be plugged by NATO in the next arms shipment.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582690130170507264
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580179712324042752


Running out due to strikes, nothing else.
I’ve already corrected this fake news pages ago


----------



## Sharma Ji

hasn't there been "martial law" in Ukraine for a whiles now already ? lol


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582789354396975104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582797135199682560

Reactions: Love Love:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Stryker1982 said:


> Ukraine claims to have downed 223 Shaheds.
> 
> The serial#'s on the tailwings found in wreckages have not exceed 2xx. Logical fallacy. Doubtful that anywhere near 200 have been used at all so far. That would be an unsustainable rate of usage. Probably small numbers are used daily. Obvious exaggeration


You *assume* that the tailnumber is a serial number.
You rarely see a photo of a WWII German tank with more than 3 digits.
Is that proof that Germany only produced around a thousand tanks during WWII?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

zectech said:


> WEF member Kissinger does not want war with Russia, wants Ukraine to give up territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Henry Kissinger: Ukraine Should Give Up Territory to Russia to Reach Peace
> 
> 
> The former U.S. Secretary of State said to continue the war means risking destroying Europe's stability in the long term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump and Kissinger go way back. Trump is leading the "anti-deepstate resistance" for the Bush Republican Party. With the new enemy of EU and China.
> 
> View attachment 887820
> 
> 
> 
> Elon Musk wants Putin to get some land in Ukraine too. Musk, a BigTech deepstater that supports microchipping your brain, does not want war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elon Musk Can't Stop Peddling Putin Propaganda
> 
> 
> The world’s richest man thinks the only way to avoid nuclear annihilation is to give in to Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rollingstone.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And former Italian Prime Minister, who invented lies of Yellow Cake for war with Iraq for the Bushes is a "Best Friend Forever" with Putin. They send affectionate notes with gifts to each other.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was Berlusconi Behind the Pre-Iraq War Yellow Cake Story? - Looking Glass News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lookingglassnews.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Berlusconi is a Bushite and a Putinite, a European Oligarch friends with Russian Oligarchs. Same with Kissinger, Trump and Musk. Berlusconi, Kissinger, Trump and Musk support both the cia and Putin, as these are not mutually exclusive. Putin is no enemy of the cia, Putin is an asset.
> 
> Chosen by the cia operatives in Russia in the 1990s, those cia agents in Russia made the decisions for Yeltsin, Yeltsin chose Putin, so the cia chose Putin as new leader of Russia:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/
> 
> 
> 
> The Putin agenda is the destruction of the EU, which is the Trump/Republican agenda.
> 
> So this being a war of US vs Russia is a farce. The Putin Russia Republicans want to defeat Zelensky, Zelensky caused the impeachment of Trump. Republicans hate Ukraine, says Tucker Carlson.
> 
> Russia does not want to nuke friend Brexit UK, or friend cia US. Russia wants to nuke Europe, Germany or Ukraine.
> 
> It is not whitey NATO Europe that are behind the cia wars, it is the Bush Republican Putinites (Tony Blair supported Putin's genocide of Chechens) are behind these cia wars and the Ukraine War is a war the cia wants Putin to destroy the enemy and rival of the US - the EU.
> 
> Merkel: Putin Wants to Destroy Europe
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/merkel/2022/06/07/id/1073404/
> 
> 
> 
> Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède
> 
> 
> Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WEF Kissinger does not want to defend the EU. cia trolls do not want to defend the EU. cia Republicans to block Ukraine aid in 2023.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582550491195506689
> The war is against the EU. And the Russia Republicans hate the NATO alliance. Want the EU to fail. 8 trillion spent on Middle East Wars. How much to defend Europe. When the European nations are facing the destruction of the euro and European Union, the US cia has turned peace-nik to abandon the EU to crash.
> 
> Tucker/Russia Republicans, Musk, Trump, Berlusconi, Kissinger are on the side of China saying Ukraine needs to surrender and give up land. Let that sink in.
> 
> The US can send enough military aid for Ukraine to destroy Russia in weeks, pushing out the Russians. With the cia on Team Putin, Russia would never strike the US because of these existing relations between US and Russia.
> 
> Europeans know Putin wants more:
> 
> Putin's plan was to take Baltics, Poland after Ukraine – Arestovich​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's plan was to take Baltics, Poland after Ukraine – Arestovich
> 
> 
> VILNIUS – The Kremlin's plans called for capturing Ukraine and then attacking the Baltic countries and Poland and the whole of Eastern...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.baltictimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin 'wants to build pro-Russia empire from Vladivostok to Portugal'​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin 'wants to build pro-Russia empire from Vladivostok to Portugal'
> 
> 
> World leaders are calling for President Vladimir Putin to be tried for war crimes but experts are concerned these horrors could continue as the despot pushes forward with a grander plan to build a sprawling empire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mirror.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EVIL EMPIRE
> Vladimir Putin’s twisted dream of a new Russian empire stretching 10,000 miles encompassing Britain & Europe​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vlad's twisted dream of a new Russian empire stretching 10,000 miles to the UK
> 
> 
> VLADIMIR Putin’s twisted vision of Eurasia as an enormous Russian empire of influence, with Moscow’s power covering all of Europe and much of Asia, is helping to drive his bloody war in…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thesun.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants to rule the globe with the Entente. Alliance with Brexit Tory UK, Alliance with Trumper cia Bush Republicans in the US. Alliance with Le Pen and other Putinites in France. Alliance with Buddy Bibi Netanyahu in Israel. France, Russia, UK, US and Baflour Israel as the global powers. Totalitarian regimes in each of these nations. Each of these entente nations would have racism as state policy with Putin regime of Terror over politics and journalism.
> 
> The Chinese-Alliance is for morons. Russia is not defending China from Trump. The Middle East alliances is for fools, Putin is not going to defend Iran from the cia/Israel. The cia has many links and ties to Putin, inside and outside of Russia. Inside and outside of the US.


Once again trump isn’t president, either is bush.
Please stop with your spam

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sharma Ji

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582789354396975104
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582797135199682560


Weak and pathetic, tap out while you still can.. this is not France's war.

Ukraine is NOT winning anything, they'll most likely be politically abandoned by the west soon enough too.. and your avatar is super cringe.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

Sharma Ji said:


> Weak and pathetic, tap out while you still can.. this is not France's war.
> 
> Ukraine is NOT winning anything, they'll most likely be politically abandoned by the west soon enough too.. and your avatar is super cringe.


Russia is definitely politically abandoned by the west. It remains to be seen what happens to Ukraine. So far they have shown the world the king is naked, and the west just loves it.

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## BHAN85

MMM-E said:


> Without American Texas Instruments TMS320 processor and GNSS receiver COTS module , İranian Shahed-136 is flying shit ..... nothing else
> 
> and İranian Shahed-136 is for terror attacks on civilians in Ukraine
> 
> so easy to shoot down Shahed-136 by İsraeli and Turkish Air Defense Systems
> but this is not our war
> 
> USA-France-Germany should deploy Air Defense Systems in Ukraine to hunt Shahed-136 like fly


The question is not if it's possible shoot down shaheds.

The question is if it's possible shoot down shaheds spending less money than the price of shaheds.

And I think those pieces can be changed by a lot of similar ones, we're not talking about cutting edge technology.
Certainly Iran can't manufacture processors, but a lot of Western countries neither. And the substitutes, made in china, are everywhere.


----------



## dbc

Paul2 said:


> I am only glad the footage comes, and confirm they have nothing else to show other than 1-2 major targets a week. Otherwise they wouldn't be trying portraying destroying a single howitzer, apc, or a tow truck as some giant victory.
> 
> On the other hand AUF have no need to prove anything now, Oryx does the job, and it says loss ratio is 1:3 to 1:4



Well, a lot of the times they rinse and repeat the same images and claim its a new strike . Sometimes they even reproduce scenes from movies and claim its a military strikes. But the resolution on their drones really sucks can't really tell if they hit a pile of dirt or an artillery piece.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582799268519153664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582769372694982656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582723855713325058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582705515276431360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582703325903867910

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582705182907195392


MMM-E said:


> Without American Texas Instruments TMS320 processor and GNSS receiver COTS module , İranian Shahed-136 is flying shit ..... nothing else
> 
> and İranian Shahed-136 is for terror attacks on civilians in Ukraine
> 
> so easy to shoot down Shahed-136 by İsraeli and Turkish Air Defense Systems
> but this is not our war
> 
> USA-France-Germany should deploy Air Defense Systems in Ukraine to hunt Shahed-136 like fly



I wouldn't be surprised despite being Western brands these are made in China.

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## MeFishToo

BHAN85 said:


> The question is not if it's possible shoot down shaheds.
> 
> The question is if it's possible shoot down shaheds spending less money than the price of shaheds.
> 
> And I think those pieces can be changed by a lot of similar ones, we're not talking about cutting edge technology.
> Certainly Iran can't manufacture processors, but a lot of Western countries neither. And the substitutes, made in china, are everywhere.


These drones can be shot down by any AA gun. I will even bet a handful of guys with machineguns could take it down. The problem is you need at lot of them to cover whatever Russia could possibly think of targeting
I dont think these drones actually did the real damage to the ukrainian energy infrastructure. I believe the russians fire cruise missiles and ballistic missiles at the real targets in the shadow of these drone strikes.

The answer to strikes like these (besides shooting them down) would be simply to retaliate in the same manner. Most countries would be able to construct a flying bomb reaching its target by GPS coordinates. No matter how much its praised by some members here.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582694289498263553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582694005610987522

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582666605711892480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582600424515076097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582465443843170304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582535202529632256

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582794925304729601
Russians now coming to the realization they’re about to lose Kherson

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582397207830925313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582457045537927169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582794071067664385

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## Sharma Ji

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


>


v-lads ? 

spetznaz vympel ? 

look like random tankers, this lot.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582767455789023232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582779983914622976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582764999902400512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582761780316557313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582739467416506369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582732737890263040

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582685057600303104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582700287684653057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582697595520311296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582695938895724544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582673129742049287

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582621465199144961

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582794925304729601
> Russians now coming to the realization they’re about to lose Kherson


Its actually really satisfying watching her (and some other TV propagandists) backpedaling. I still remember their confidence and pride back in february, talking about russian might and nuking left and right.

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582803641768894465

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582524190410043393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582077718195101697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582492337648697345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582473667807625216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582471986696945664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582437444586450944

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582811654865444865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582812077713809408


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__





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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582811654865444865
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582812077713809408


I like the word KleptoCapture. But they are going to have a hard time. Its like hunting down the mafia, only its the size of a country this time. Must be impossible.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582346242386198530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582320166997663744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582314904920674304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582310478830673920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582147668192526336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582081880970924033

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## F-22Raptor

MeFishToo said:


> I like the word KleptoCapture. But they are going to have a hard time. Its like hunting down the mafia, only its the size of a country this time. Must be impossible.



Two Russian nationals were arrested and several other individuals charged in a broad sanctions-evasion scheme to smuggle US military technology, some of which was used in Ukraine, and Venezuelan oil.

Yury Orekhov, co-owner and chief executive officer of Hamburg-based Nord-Deutsche Industrieanlagenbau (NDA) GmbH, was arrested Monday in Germany, and Artem Uss, the other co-owner of NDA, was arrested in Italy. Orekhov, 42, and Uss, 40, were among five Russian nationals and two Venezuelan oil traders charged in an indictment unsealed Wednesday in federal court in Brooklyn, New York. 









Five Russians Charged in Scheme to Obtain US Military Technology


Two Russian nationals were arrested and several other individuals charged in a broad sanctions-evasion scheme to smuggle US military technology, some of which was used in Ukraine, and Venezuelan oil.




www.bloomberg.com





Two were arrested

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582784345609506816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582781985856290816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582753775567392769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582747438292422656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582715923408244745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582715004385566720

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__





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__





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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582080878322515969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582765287451267072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582787865922019328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582772343604379649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582765287451267072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582741180827435008

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582827089254035456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582826277878145025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582761237607108608

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582793466370994178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582777732491927557

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582731921548709893

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582730630516703233


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> The question is not if it's possible shoot down shaheds.
> 
> The question is if it's possible shoot down shaheds spending less money than the price of shaheds.
> 
> And I think those pieces can be changed by a lot of similar ones, we're not talking about cutting edge technology.
> Certainly Iran can't manufacture processors, but a lot of Western countries neither. And the substitutes, made in china, are everywhere.


China can do pure CMOS but when you add high resolution ADCs and other Analog stuff and Flash memory they are way behind.
The drones does not use general purpose processors. They use Digital Signal Processors with the mixed signal stuff.
Not Chinas expertise.

Most if not all Western countries can design processors. This is taught in engineering classes.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582662920030208004

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582504157331992576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581647384336998401


----------



## Hack-Hook

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582643586683658241


look more like decoy


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

RoadAmerica said:


> Running out due to strikes, nothing else.
> I’ve already corrected this fake news pages ago



You never corrected anything. Show me proof, otherwise, you're spewing a hot air.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Most if not all Western countries can design processors. This is taught in engineering classes.



Not a lot of countries can make processors. China and Russia both can.









Zhaoxin - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org










Angstrem (company) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582794925304729601
> Russians now coming to the realization they’re about to lose Kherson





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582589907775541248


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582699444373712897

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582778909925707776


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

McCarthy: No 'blank check' for Ukraine if GOP wins majority


WASHINGTON (AP) — House GOP leader Kevin McCarthy warned Tuesday that Republicans will not write a “blank check” for Ukraine if they win back the House majority, reflecting his party's growing skepticism about financial support for Kyiv as it battles Russia's invasion.




apnews.com


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582830341454458880

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582788753516437504


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582829646919659520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582841017853571072

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582841834401062912

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## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582829646919659520
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582841017853571072


Whats the point having your kids firing different weapons with a grey bearded nanny?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582841834401062912



Oligarchy.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581171318589775872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581174212517330945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580620531073576960

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582840738705862656


----------



## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> Oh what a joy to start the morning like this. Your reap what you sow. A good taste of your own medicine. Now you know what it feels like.
> 
> 
> 
> So, why doesn't NATO send its forces to Ukraine to fight Russia? You claim that NATO has superhuman abilities. What good are these abilities if you have to do the fighting on behalf of NATO in cyberspace.
> 
> When are you fatty rednecks coming to get Pakistan's nukes? Papa Joe is having sleepless nights LOL


Same reason you have servants that bring your groceries , make your food, take care of your garden , and clean your bathroom. There is a more suitable and effective option to that. 

Every military uses the means to its advantage. Pakistan was using Cobra helicopters in Waziristan, not going in with a sword and a dagger. Your argument is the equivalent of 'hey why don't you bring a sword and a shield to a fight if you are a man'. Its because there are better ways to fight for the person that doesn't want to use a sword and a shield. 

If there is a better to way to fight, the country would be stupid enough not to use that better way to fight.

Then there is the matter of crossing a line: NATO has its boundaries. Russia doesn't expand beyond Ukraine and NATO doesn't send its soldiers in because you must know that Ukraine is not part of NATO.

Again , goading and daring is not how wars are won, Its through use of brains. Goading is what Putin's advisers did and Saddam's advisers did. For one the history is not written, the other got caught in a manhole than a rat.

I know you are angry at the expceptionalism that NATO has that despite not putting a single boot on the ground, they brought Russia to a stalemate. But don't let that eat into your intelligent thinking okay. 

Generals in a country may hate the enemy but they still think calmly and logically. Not bringing this 'he if you were a real man, you would fight the war with your own solidiers and a bow and arrow'

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582667905137004544
The desperation on the EU is unbelievable. Iran is used to being sanctioned since 1979 and it is not like they would stop for the endless sanctions that EU and others impose on then.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582830341454458880




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582832287376609281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582828521134911488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582827966387527680

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582809693486911488

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## aviator_fan

alimobin memon said:


> Worried. I dont care about Russia as people think here but I still wont believe that it is in loosing side. I just meant that Western media is showing only one side. Ofcourse Russian state media will post mostly things that are not against their country.


I agree with you. That both media (one by Govt edict, the other by just whats easier to report and preference to be on one side) will do it. Thats why its extra work (and personally why I come to this forum) to understand the other side (not my side). 

An extensio to this is: most local US tv channels always give reports on what Police say happened verbatum, including arrested person's footage. 50% of the time those arrested are not the right people, but tv channel doesn't go back and clearify it because its too much trouble. Easier to report what police tell youu.

Back to this topic, I need to understand the other side so I can balance the views out mentally. Of course the process to do that is hamstrung by idiots talking about everything from Russians have trees to US taking Pakistan nukes to hurling insults and distract from the topic.

IN 2003, almost all media was on the side of assuming Saddam had nukes. Of course Saddam also ate this up as he could have come clear at the last minute instead of standing up for a war for nukes that he didn't have.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582830579694772224


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582829646919659520
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582841017853571072





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582848792465842177

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582833467989331968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582816588520390656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582853819515686914


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You never corrected anything. Show me proof, otherwise, you're spewing a hot air.


Google it meatball.
Their truck drivers have been striking for weeks


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582834044819058688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582834056106242050

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582834066457759744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582834463477989376


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582834472663547905

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## RoadAmerica

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582829646919659520
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582841017853571072


Hiding in a hole shooting at the sky, I wouldn’t expect anything less 🤣


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582851516989583360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582852536675217409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582853355277549568

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582524190410043393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582732737890263040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582773195312361475

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582726440906547201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582852843270070272

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579883776729284610

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582834354576797697


----------



## MeFishToo

I hear some analyst calling the evacuation from Kherson a means to control general uprising against Russian troops once the ukrainian forces reach the outskirts of the city. Could be, if partisan activity is something starting to worry the russians.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580918193555902464

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> I hear some analyst calling the evacuation from Kherson a means to control general uprising against Russian troops once the ukrainian forces reach the outskirts of the city. Could be, if partisan activity is something starting to worry the russians.


a lot, LIKE A LOT of electronic surveillance activities in Black Sea conducted by NATO in the last 2 days. USAF EC-135 fly with RAF Typhoon is circling around Black sea near Crimea to collect electronic data in the area. Plus a complete blackout of all Ukrainian media in Kherson region means they are currently making a push.

And the Russia is telling the civilian to leave Kherson would mean Russia do not have confident to retain Kherson.

There are partisan force in Kherson, Russia has been dealing with it basically since March, which mean the evacuation order is not really logical if Russia only concern is the partisan activities. If there are just Martial Law, then yes, that point to Partisan, the evacuation is not.

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582698838359351297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582704266745372672


----------



## _Nabil_

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582726440906547201


There was a scandal years ago about the poor conditions of the gears of the German troops, I have to look further to find it.

This is 2022, still, the situation is the same :

The German army, air force and navy have long had to work with insufficient equipment. They lack mission-capable tanks, helicopters, *body armor*, *backpacks*, and night-vision gear. Even *warm underwear for the troops* on NATO's eastern front is in short supply.









German military: Strangled by bureaucracy – DW – 06/07/2022


Germany's military suddenly has €100 billion to spend on new equipment. Thousands of people in one of Germany's largest government agencies are tasked with procurement. But that may turn out to be a major problem.




www.google.com





Shortages of *body armor*. Radios so antiquated they are the butt of jokes from other NATO soldiers. A dysfunctional procurement system that takes years just to acquire *shoulder patches*.

After decades of budget cuts, the German military is woefully short of basic supplies, whether they’re bullets or *backpacks*.









Germany’s Military Industry Gears Up to Restock Its Own Forces


The country’s chancellor has pledged about $100 billion to rebuild its army, but that increase in spending may not be enough to reverse years of neglect, experts say.




www.google.com






So spare us your Hypocrisy....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582863178710413312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582867051495886849


----------



## _Nabil_

In Russia:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582767936527212544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582770065857880064
In Ukraine: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582696178163982336


----------



## _Nabil_

PRESIDENT BIDEN: I will do everything in my power to bring gasoline prices down.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582786999492444160
Biden: Announces the release of 15 million barrels of oil from the reserve


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582808466502320128

Meantime:


Brent crude rose $2.38 a barrel to $92.41 a barrel



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582808837521690625


----------



## The SC



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

_Nabil_ said:


> There was a scandal years ago about the poor conditions of the gears of the German troops, I have to look further to find it.
> 
> This is 2022, still, the situation is the same :
> 
> The German army, air force and navy have long had to work with insufficient equipment. They lack mission-capable tanks, helicopters, *body armor*, *backpacks*, and night-vision gear. Even *warm underwear for the troops* on NATO's eastern front is in short supply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German military: Strangled by bureaucracy – DW – 06/07/2022
> 
> 
> Germany's military suddenly has €100 billion to spend on new equipment. Thousands of people in one of Germany's largest government agencies are tasked with procurement. But that may turn out to be a major problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortages of *body armor*. Radios so antiquated they are the butt of jokes from other NATO soldiers. A dysfunctional procurement system that takes years just to acquire *shoulder patches*.
> 
> After decades of budget cuts, the German military is woefully short of basic supplies, whether they’re bullets or *backpacks*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany’s Military Industry Gears Up to Restock Its Own Forces
> 
> 
> The country’s chancellor has pledged about $100 billion to rebuild its army, but that increase in spending may not be enough to reverse years of neglect, experts say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So spare us your Hypocrisy....



@Vergennes is French.

French don't like the Anglo Saxons (Americans, British , Germans).

France is preparing to quit NATO shortly.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580918193555902464

Reactions: Like Like:
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## _Nabil_

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> @Vergennes is French.
> 
> French don't like the Anglo Saxons (Americans, British , Germans).
> 
> France is preparing to quit NATO shortly.


French really?

Descartes, Voltaire, d'Alembert et autres, doivent actuellement se retourner dans leurs tombes 😂🤣

Isn't Germany part of the NATO??

So he have to look for NATO members situation no for Russia ....


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582338499662880768

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581313922140753922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581610444867141634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582305606551339008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582002151710040065

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580899273847476224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582025027335356416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581853039522381824


----------



## ziaulislam

Hack-Hook said:


> in Lebanon in 2006 for each combatant 2-3 civilian was killed by Israel , at the same war for each 2 Israelian soldier one Israelian civilian was killed by Hezbollah and Israel was using precision weapon and Hezbollah MLRS
> after the war , in western circle nobody criticized Israel for the civilian died in northern Lebanon hundreds of km away from battle field , but every body in western circle criticized Hezbollah for 60 civilian died in less than 50km from battlefield .
> 
> that show how western media concern about civilian life is biased and fake


Israeil occupies west bank, syria and jordan recognized areas by whole world including israeil is okay but russia doing same is bad.
Double standarads.

Dont bring morality in this thread as their is no morality per western sources ..
Dont use words liberated or occupied..

Both sides have their reasons for war and both are more less justified.



Dalit said:


> LOL at Ukraine has the momentum. You have been saying this for months.
> 
> Why aren't your allies willing to take your side? Any explanation?


Russia still losing ground..and frankly its embrassing..

Regardless noone has forced russia to surrender or back off..

Even in afghanistan when they left the communist govt was intact completely.


They will escalate meaning more ukrainians will die


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ziaulislam said:


> Israeil occupies west bank, syria and jordan recognized areas by whole world including israeil is okay but russia doing same is bad.
> Double standarads.
> 
> Dont bring morality in this thread as their is no morality per western sources ..
> Dont use words liberated or occupied..
> 
> Both sides have their reasons for war and both are more less justified.



And don't forget Americans stealing oil in Syria in complete disregard of international law. As Americans say. Might makes right.


----------



## leviathan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580899273847476224
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582025027335356416
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581853039522381824


This is just sad... A Su-25 strike run is just to fire 8 ungiulded rockets.....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

leviathan said:


> This is just sad... A Su-25 strike run is just to fire 8 ungiulded rockets.....



Manned attack jets are a dying breed. Drones are the future.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582887934851629056


----------



## The SC

Zelensky's office:

Our situation is critical across the country because of the Russian strikes. We need to prepare for the fact that there will be no electricity, no water, no heating.

@USATtmmrr



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582811387918954496

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582771036957069314


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582850460523732992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582403819563978752

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## F-22Raptor

Now seeing multiple reports Russian forces are fleeing Kherson

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582819353434546177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582819349731381248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582804469846200320

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Now seeing multiple reports Russian forces are fleeing Kherson


Some Russian telegram blogger said Mylove is fallen with heavy Ukrainian loss. 
Ukrainian channel reported the same, but did not mention loss. 

If this is the case, then they are probably looking at Nova Kakovhka probably now.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582572545236049922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582188790080163840

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582572545236049922
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582188790080163840


Seriously how do you repost this crap.
Most experienced army based on a few months of fighting aka getting creamed?
Come on man

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## Reashot Xigwin

_Nabil_ said:


> There was a scandal years ago about the poor conditions of the gears of the German troops, I have to look further to find it.
> 
> This is 2022, still, the situation is the same :
> 
> The German army, air force and navy have long had to work with insufficient equipment. They lack mission-capable tanks, helicopters, *body armor*, *backpacks*, and night-vision gear. Even *warm underwear for the troops* on NATO's eastern front is in short supply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German military: Strangled by bureaucracy – DW – 06/07/2022
> 
> 
> Germany's military suddenly has €100 billion to spend on new equipment. Thousands of people in one of Germany's largest government agencies are tasked with procurement. But that may turn out to be a major problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortages of *body armor*. Radios so antiquated they are the butt of jokes from other NATO soldiers. A dysfunctional procurement system that takes years just to acquire *shoulder patches*.
> 
> After decades of budget cuts, the German military is woefully short of basic supplies, whether they’re bullets or *backpacks*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany’s Military Industry Gears Up to Restock Its Own Forces
> 
> 
> The country’s chancellor has pledged about $100 billion to rebuild its army, but that increase in spending may not be enough to reverse years of neglect, experts say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So spare us your Hypocrisy....







The Germans don't claim to be the most advanced armed forces in the world comparable to the US before the war. 

The German also dont corrupt basic gear by selling it on their version of ebay, giving airsoft equipment to their soldiers in the middle of a war, giving tampon for bullet wound instead of actual field dressing kit, buying Chinese radios & tires from Alibaba, skip out on training & pretty much everything. 

While the Bundeswehr lacks funding the Russian have around 12% of their GDP just for defense alone. So not even comparable.



RoadAmerica said:


> Seriously how do you repost this crap.
> Most experienced army based on a few months of fighting aka getting creamed?
> Come on man




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582778909925707776

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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> China can do pure CMOS but when you add high resolution ADCs and other Analog stuff and Flash memory they are way behind.
> The drones does not use general purpose processors. They use Digital Signal Processors with the mixed signal stuff.
> Not Chinas expertise.
> 
> Most if not all Western countries can design processors. This is taught in engineering classes.


I said "manufacture", I didnt say "design".
You can design processors under a tree in Uganda if you have the right knowledge.
You can't manufacture processors in Uganda or in Sweden, but you can in China, and if China someday conquere Taiwan, then there is no limits.
Anyway, no need to design anything, it's already done.

"The drones" is a wide word.

We're talking about Shaheds-136, there is nothing to process there but a few data, there is no need to high speed processing. They can use general purpose processors, and if it uses another thing, a more dedicated hardware, it's because is cheaper, smallest and spend less energy.

e.g: A dedicated hardware to decode h264 video can be substituted to a general purpose hardware with the correct software, but it will spend several times more energy, it will be bigger in size/weight, and it will be twenty times more expensive. Mutatis mutandis: the same doing another processing tasks.

In short: Can the West stop Iran from manufacturing Shahed-136 with sanctions to pieces? No, because substitute pieces are everywhere. It's a crappy flying machine, his strong point is price, it's not technology.

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## BHAN85

MeFishToo said:


> These drones can be shot down by any AA gun. I will even bet a handful of guys with machineguns could take it down. The problem is you need at lot of them to cover whatever Russia could possibly think of targeting
> I dont think these drones actually did the real damage to the ukrainian energy infrastructure. I believe the russians fire cruise missiles and ballistic missiles at the real targets in the shadow of these drone strikes.
> 
> The answer to strikes like these (besides shooting them down) would be simply to retaliate in the same manner. Most countries would be able to construct a flying bomb reaching its target by GPS coordinates. No matter how much its praised by some members here.



It can be shoot down with machine guns and Ukraine did it, but that is a matter of luck, they did it and they failed too.

I dont know his real power to destroy infrastructure. But just like terrorism tools are ok, Russia did it terrorizing Kiev.

Retaliate in the same manner would be sending suicide drones to Moscow.

I think it's better for everybody stop Shahed-136 in a cheap way than retaliate in the same manner .

They are very noisy, so that can be a weak point that Ukraine can take advantage to build another suicides drones to patrol, search and destroy shaheds-136 using sound as a way to find and follow them.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582718846741250048

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

If you think 42 million Ukrainians can fight 146 million Russians you have another thing coming.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582874579973812225


RoadAmerica said:


> Seriously how do you repost this crap.
> Most experienced army based on a few months of fighting aka getting creamed?
> Come on man




They're facing the whole NATO alliance and their cannon fodder in Ukraine. Just watch a few weeks from now; something is definitely in the oven.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582874579973812225
> 
> 
> 
> They're facing the whole NATO alliance and their cannon fodder in Ukraine. Just watch a few weeks from now; something is definitely in the oven.



Zelensky is Jewish and may have moved to Israel.

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## CrazyZ

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582874579973812225
> 
> 
> 
> They're facing the whole NATO alliance and their cannon fodder in Ukraine. Just watch a few weeks from now; something is definitely in the oven.


Drones probably have him in hiding.... worst case dead. I'm surprised the Russians waited this long to take out Ukrainian critical infrastructure.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582926551905361920

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BHAN85 said:


> They are very noisy, so that can be a weak point that Ukraine can take advantage to build another suicides drones to patrol, search and destroy shaheds-136 using sound as a way to find and follow them.



Ukraine has no defense industry left. They were bombed.


----------



## _Nabil_

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582874579973812225


Let me guess, .... Hmmmm

In front of a green screen, stagging he's with his troops in Kherson 🤣

Now, seriously, it a false info, please remove it ✌️

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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582819353434546177
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582819349731381248
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582804469846200320


Its what you call consolidating before the next offensive.


----------



## sammuel

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If you think 42 million Ukrainians can fight 146 million Russians you have another thing coming.




The " scroll down and ignore " guy , is back.

Just had to scroll down 5 pages of nonsense.


~

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## _Nabil_

sammuel said:


> The " scroll down and ignore " guy , is back.
> 
> Just had to scroll down 5 pages of nonsense.
> 
> 
> ~


Content of ignored members won't show up !!!

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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582926551905361920

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## aviator_fan

sammuel said:


> American CPUs found in Iran-made kamikaze drones
> 
> 
> ECONOMICHNA PRAVDA - MONDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2022, 14:53 Iran-made Shahed-131 kamikaze drones contain processors manufactured by Texas Instruments, the U.S. company. This is stated in the information posted by the Department of Strategic Communications of the Office of the Commander-in-Chief of the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


So much for Iranian 'independence' if it relies on components from the 'great' satan to produce these. Now its remains to be seen if NATO can adapt and knowing the components can figure out an area jamming system. Russians took 5 months to adapt , eventually using these imported weapons. Lets see if NATO and Ukraine does it in a month.

REgardless destroying civilian buildings in random locations does not generate the war fighting capability. US realized in Vietnam. Iran-Iraq realized in their battle of cities, and Israel to an extent in Gaza.



zartosht said:


> Hahahahahha the evolution of butthurt^
> 
> -First Iranian drones were fake/sucked
> -Then super dooper western winderweapos would make easy work of them
> -now they are praying that Iran was dumb enough to make its weapons dependent on western tech…
> 
> Whats the next fantasy you gonna come up with?
> 
> Do you simpletons really believe that Iran doesnt have a work around? Iran is absolutely obsessed with self suffiency. Iran has never forgotten how its state of the art american military became useless overnight when cutoff.
> 
> And this is a basic (but ingenious) weapon


Whats with your idiotic 'haha' and 'hoo hoo'. Seems like you belong on a teenage forum than here.

Iran's state of the art is assembling pieces from the satanic countries. Which means it is going to be equally easy to develop countermeasure.

What you should be really ashamed of is the Iranians are worse than Israelis in terms of their back stabbing Ghazans. They had all these weapons but never gave it to Hamas who was fighting with missiles that Iron Dome could defeat and then Gazan civilians would pay the ultimate price.

This is the evilness of the bearded regime who never truly wanted to hurt Israel but is really good at attacking its teenage women. Nice!

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## yuba

sammuel said:


> The " scroll down and ignore " guy , is back.
> 
> Just had to scroll down 5 pages of nonsense.
> 
> 
> ~


I was just thinking the same

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## aviator_fan

alimobin memon said:


> At least russian population increased after all people crossed original russia from these regions. To me ukraine infra destroyed and russian population imcrease is one kind of a way of winning. Calling it tactical retreat is not defeat.


Do you mean in the annexed regions? The situation in Russia is very different: 

death rate (not war related) is higher by 800K than birth rate, and birth late is going to fall further.









Russia headed for demographic disaster due to war | Semafor


A demographic crisis is worsening in Russia amid the Ukraine war. That's posing a problem for Vladimir Putin.




www.semafor.com





Russia headed for demographic disaster due to war​Updated Oct 19, 2022, 8:43am EDT
_Sign up for Flagship, our daily newsletter that distills what’s happening in the world into a concise, insightful morning read._




The News
Fewer and fewer people are being born in Russia every year, data shows. That's posing a problem for President Vladimir Putin, whose mobilization in Ukraine is accelerating fears that the country is headed toward a demographic crisis.



REUTERS/Stringer/File Photo




Know More
Russia's birth rate and total population stabilized in the 2010s, but have been sharply declining since then, World Bank data shows. And if the war in Ukraine continues, there will be just 1.2 million births in Russia next year, “the lowest in modern history,” according to Bloomberg. Total deaths, meanwhile, average around 2 million every year, but that increased during the pandemic.




Putin has been trying to boost the country's birth rate for years. In early 2020, he said the demographic situation was "very difficult" and announced a slate of new measures aimed at helping families.
But experts say the war is only making population growth harder, with more men away from their families.
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Hundreds of thousands of Russian men have been drafted in recent weeks as Putin announced a new military mobilization. But hundreds of thousands more have fled to other countries, according to The New York Times.
The impact to the country's birth rate "will be stronger the longer the mobilization lasts," Igor Efremov, a researcher in Moscow, told Bloomberg. He said if the war continues through next spring, it would be "catastrophic."



RoadAmerica said:


> Once again trump isn’t president, either is bush.
> Please stop with your spam


Kissinger is a 98 year old and has had no role: who cares what he thinks? What if Alexei Navalny says Putin should vacate. Nobody gives a rat's a**

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## The SC

_Nabil_ said:


> Let me guess, .... Hmmmm
> 
> In front of a green screen, stagging he's with his troops in Kherson 🤣
> 
> Now, seriously, it a false info, please remove it ✌️




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582861898252328960


khansaheeb said:


> Its what you call consolidating before the next offensive.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582477326079909888

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## ziaulislam

jhungary said:


> Some Russian telegram blogger said Mylove is fallen with heavy Ukrainian loss.
> Ukrainian channel reported the same, but did not mention loss.
> 
> If this is the case, then they are probably looking at Nova Kakovhka probably now.


I thought ukrianians forces were going to hit moscow soon.


----------



## khansaheeb

Ukraine moves to cut diplomatic ties with Iran after drone attacks


Ukraine's foreign minister said on Tuesday he was submitting a proposal to President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to formally cut diplomatic ties with Tehran after a wave of using what Kyiv says are Iranian-made drones.




www.reuters.com





Ukraine moves to cut diplomatic ties with Iran after drone attacks​

Dmytro Kuleba





Volodymyr Zelensky

Tue, 18 October 2022 at 5:48 am·2-min read






FILE PHOTO: Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba attends the 77th Session of the United Nations General Assembly
In this article:











Dmytro Kuleba
Ukrainian diplomat and politician





Volodymyr Zelensky
Sixth and current President of Ukraine


KYIV (Reuters) -Ukraine's foreign minister said on Tuesday he was submitting a proposal to President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to formally cut diplomatic ties with Tehran after a wave of Russian attacks using what Kyiv says are Iranian-made drones.
Russia launched dozens of "kamikaze" drones on targets in Ukraine on Monday, striking energy infrastructure and killing several civilians.
Ukraine says the attacks were carried out with Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones. Tehran denies supplying the drones.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said Kyiv was certain they were Iranian and would be ready to share a "bag of evidence" to European powers in doubt.
"Tehran bears full responsibility for the destruction of relations with Ukraine", Kuleba told a news conference. "I am submitting to the president of Ukraine a proposition to sever diplomatic ties with Iran."
Kuleba said he had urged the European Union to impose sanctions on Iran "for helping Russia to kill Ukrainians."
"Severe sanctions against Iran are especially relevant right now, as we are witnessing reports on Iranian intentions to give Russia ballistic missiles to be used against Ukrainians," he said.
"The actions of Iran are vile and deceitful. We won’t suffer them, because all those actions were done while Iran told us that they didn’t support the war and won’t support any of the sides with their weapons."
Kuleba said Kyiv would send an official note to Israel seeking immediate air defence supplies and cooperation in the sector.
There was no immediate Israeli response to Kuleba's remarks.
Earlier on Tuesday, a member of Israel's decision-making security cabinet, Justice Minister Gideon Saar, told national broadcaster Army Radio: "Our support for Ukraine does not include weapons systems and weaponry - and there is no change to that position."
While Israel has condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine and provided Kyiv with humanitarian relief, it has stopped short of also providing military support, citing concern for continued cooperation with Moscow over next-door Syria.
(Reporting by Max Hunder in Kyiv and Dan Williams in Jerusalem; writing by Tom Balmforth; editing by Timothy Heritage)









Gantz: Israel may supply Ukraine with rocket and drone alert system, but not weapons


Defense minister says Jerusalem seeking info needed for development of 'life-saving civilian early-warning system,’ amid repeated Russian attacks on Ukrainian cities




www.timesofisrael.com





Gantz: Israel may supply Ukraine with rocket and drone alert system, but not weapons​Defense minister says Jerusalem seeking info needed for development of ‘life-saving civilian early-warning system,’ amid repeated Russian attacks on Ukrainian cities​By EMANUEL FABIAN 19 October 2022, 4:16 pm  
8



Defense Minister Benny Gantz speaks to ambassadors from EU nations on October 19, 2022 (Ariel Hermoni/Defense Ministry)
Defense Minister Benny Gantz on Wednesday reiterated that Israel would not supply weapons to Ukraine to fight Russia’s eight-month-long invasion, but said Jerusalem could supply an early-warning system to the beleaguered nation to warn of incoming strikes, like the one used in Israel.
Speaking to a group of European Union ambassadors a day after Ukraine said it would submit a formal request for Israeli air defense systems like Iron Dome, Gantz ruled out the sale of such weapons.
“Israel supports and stands with Ukraine, NATO, and the West. This is something we have said in the past and repeat today. Israel has a policy of supporting Ukraine via humanitarian aid, and the delivery of life-saving defensive equipment,” Gantz said in remarks provided by his office.

































































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“This being said, I would like to emphasize that Israel will not deliver weapon systems to Ukraine due to a variety of operational considerations. We will continue to support Ukraine within our limitations, as we have done in the past,” he said.
“We have sent a request to the Ukrainians to share information about their needs for air defense alerts. Once we gain this information, we will be able to assist in the development of a life-saving civilian early-warning system,” Gantz added.
Get The Times of Israel's Daily Editionby email and never miss our top stories
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By signing up, you agree to the terms
Israel’s warning system uses a mix of radar and electro-optic devices to detect rocket, missile, and drone launches, classify the size and the threat they represent, and pinpoint on a map the areas that are in danger.



Defense Minister Benny Gantz speaks to ambassadors from EU nations on October 19, 2022 (Ariel Hermoni/Defense Ministry)
Citizens receive warnings through sirens, alerts on their phones, and messages on TV and radio.
The system has been credited with saving hundreds of lives over the years during flare-ups of violence with terror groups in the Gaza Strip and Lebanon, which have launched thousands of projectiles at Israeli cities.
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In recent years the system’s accuracy has been upgraded so that it can limit its alerts to specific areas of large cities.



Screenshot of Red Alert, the Israeli app that warns locals of incoming missile attacks. (Courtesy)
Ukrainian cities in recent weeks have faced repeated attacks by Iranian-made loitering munitions, also known as suicide drones, and other missiles launched by Russia.
“We are following Iran’s involvement in the war in Ukraine. We see that Iran provides UAVs and in the near future may also provide additional advanced systems,” Gantz said.
Ukraine on Wednesday said its military had shot down more than 223 Iranian-made drones in a little more than a month.



A drone approaches for an attack in Kyiv on October 17, 2022, amid the Russian invasion of Ukraine. (Yasuyoshi CHIBA / AFP)
Since the early days of the invasion, senior Ukrainian officials have asked Israel to send its missile defense systems, especially the Iron Dome, in public addresses and in private conversations with decision-makers in Jerusalem.
But Jerusalem has so far avoided providing direct military aid to Kyiv — neither offensive arms nor advanced defensive technology — since Russian troops invaded Ukraine on February 24, in an attempt to avoid sparking a crisis with Moscow.
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Israel is one of the few countries that maintains relatively warm relations with both Ukraine, a fellow Western democracy, and Russia.
But Israel has found itself at odds with Russia as Jerusalem has increasingly supported Ukraine while seeking to maintain freedom of movement in Syria’s skies, which are largely controlled by Moscow.
In April, Gantz okayed for the first time sending Ukrainian emergency services 2,000 helmets and 500 flak jackets, after long refusing.



A man is seen on the ground after a blast following a drone attack in Kyiv on October 17, 2022, amid the Russian invasion of Ukraine. (Yasuyoshi CHIBA / AFP)
That move came following reports of mass killing of civilians, rape and other atrocities committed by Russian forces in the Kyiv suburb of Bucha, leading to a change of tone from Israeli politicians.
At the time, Foreign Minister Yair Lapid, who is now also prime minister, explicitly accused Russia of war crimes over the reports, in the strongest comments against Moscow by a top Israeli official.
Ties between Israel and Russia were further frayed following a claim by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov that Adolf Hitler had Jewish heritage, in an attempt to defend Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine as an attempt to “de-Nazify” a country whose president, Volodymyr Zelensky, is Jewish.
While Jerusalem somewhat shifted its tone to align more with Western powers, it has so far steadfastly declined to contribute to the Ukrainian military effort.
On Wednesday, Gantz said he plans to approve an additional defensive aid package to Ukraine.
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582946954572550145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582920873564340225

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582572545236049922
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582188790080163840


Hahahahhaaa. 
I will repost this in a week okay?

Its hilarious to see the russian propaganda turn up the volumes (and as such their cheerleaders on this thread spamming their copy-paste) as soon The battlefield situation turns critical. We saw this uptick as well before kharkiv.

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## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> I thought ukrianians forces were going to hit moscow soon.


Why would they even need to go to Moscow??

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## Reashot Xigwin

ZeGerman said:


> Hahahahhaaa.
> I will repost this in a week okay?
> 
> Its hilarious to see the russian propaganda turn up the volumes (and as such their cheerleaders on this thread spamming their copy-paste) as soon The battlefield situation turns critical. We saw this uptick as well before kharkiv.


Russia can have the most battle hardened soldiers but if they can't supply or support them it meant nothing.

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## Clutch

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582926551905361920


Cheap Chinese engines bought from Ali Baba by Iran are too loud!


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Notice how the M113 have a much sturdier armor than the BMP? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582791700380278784


Clutch said:


> Cheap Chinese engines bought from Ali Baba by Iran are too loud!


Loud engine are bad actually. The whole point of drone is that they have to be silent. 

The Harops or other kamikaze drones are scarier because you don't realize it until it's too late to react. It's embarrassing to see so many here glorifying what essentially is a flying lawnmower. 

No country trying to put order for it should tell you the the reason why.

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Putin carousel runs fast. army general Sergej Surowikin, “hero of Russia”, replaced Alexander Dwornikow, the butcher of Syria.
> 
> Surowikin should turn the tide of the war.
> mission impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Der „Schlächter von Syrien“, Alexander Dwornikow (l.) und sein Nachfolger als Chef der russischen Truppen in der Ukraine, Sergey Surowikin



Appointing a somewhat prominent, and even charismatic leader during a crisis is very un-communist way I would say.

If it was China, I would've instantly said that the guys is appointed a captain on a burning ship. A complete nobody whom nobody would notice wouldn't have done it. The sacrifice needs to somebody genuinely eye catching, and "valid appointment", so his downfall can be dramatized. Otherwise people will see from the start who is scapegoating who.

I don't know how they do it in russia, but given 5 of his predecessors, including a guy whom I though would've been a much more "functioning" guy as an opcom.

That's like Afghanistan was lost when McCrystal was fired, and everybody knew Obama had intentionally disposed of really the only guy who managed to show results through extensive infantry combat, and chances anybody besting his record were microscopic.

Obama vent through 7 generals over 8 years, but putin is on the way to beat him in just 1 it seems.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Notice how the M113 have a much sturdier armor than the BMP?



Honestly, both are aluminium deathtraps which are said to even letting 7.62 through from the sides.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Notice how the M113 have a much sturdier armor than the BMP?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582791700380278784
> 
> Loud engine are bad actually. The whole point of drone is that they have to be silent.
> 
> The Harops or other kamikaze drones are scarier because you don't realize it until it's too late to react. It's embarrassing to see so many here glorifying what essentially is a flying lawnmower.
> 
> No country trying to put order for it should tell you the the reason why.


Iran drones use 2-stroke fuel engine.
Much like a flying bike.

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## Clutch



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## Viet

Clutch said:


>


7 percent. That is the percentage of EU gas imports from Russia. That will go to zero next year. Without EU market Russia status as energy superpower is finished. Threaten nuclear war won’t change anything. If Putin starts a nuclear war the Nato would respond.

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## Clutch

Viet said:


> 7 percent. That is the percentage of EU gas imports from Russia. That will go to zero next year. Without EU market Russia status as energy superpower is finished. Threaten nuclear war won’t change anything. If Putin starts a nuclear war the Nato would respond.



Not really the crux of the video. Watch it again with a dictionary or translator and tell me what it was about if you didn't understand the English the first time.


----------



## Viet

Clutch said:


> Not really the crux of the video. Watch it again with a dictionary or translator and tell me what it was about if you didn't understand the English the first time.


The crux? It’s the same with uncle Kim in North Korea. The problem with Russia is, there is no control, no check and balance. let’s say Putin wakes up in the morning he is in bad mood he wants to start a nuclear war and we don’t know if Russia military will refuse his order.
He can’t expect EU to buy Russia gas if he always threatens EU with nuclear war. That’s ridiculous.

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## The SC




----------



## Clutch

Viet said:


> The crux? It’s the same with uncle Kim in North Korea. The problem with Russia is, there is no control, no check and balance. let’s say Putin wakes up in the morning he is in bad mood he wants to start a nuclear war and we don’t know if Russia military will refuse his order.
> He can’t expect EU to buy Russia gas if he always threatens EU with nuclear war. That’s ridiculous.


The video isn't about Russia the good. Watch it again... I don't know if there are Vietnamese translation available you. It's basically saying what you are. I don't have a dog in this fight. Just forwarding a video.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582995171264069633

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## lcloo

Clutch said:


> Cheap Chinese engines bought from Ali Baba by Iran are too loud!


The Stuka dive bombing effect. Wrecking enemy's nerve and causing panic before the impact explosion.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Lancet and Shaheed-136 drones are turning out to be nightmares to the NATO's cannon fodder in Ukraine.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582999146562478081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582737907693277185

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## Viet

Clutch said:


> The video isn't about Russia the good. Watch it again... I don't know if there are Vietnamese translation available you. It's basically saying what you are. I don't have a dog in this fight. Just forwarding a video.


I don’t need translation. I speak multiple languages, for your information.
I give you a tip. Understand the content and intend before you forward any video.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582994346713878528

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582510018574057473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582887968158601216

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## Viet

Skynex by Rheinmetall

good against Iran suicide drone swarm

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582919886946578434

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582801958137892865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582911625304018945

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Kiev is getting abandoned by the diplomat corps of different countries


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582989469372014592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582798596620943361

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## Vergennes

Supa dupa Russian army is about to make another "goodwill gesture" it seems 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582999170201550848

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Supa dupa Russian army is about to make another "goodwill gesture" it seems
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582999170201550848


I think they had already broken thru Mylove and probably pressing into Nova Kakhovka or Kherson or both.

What strange is the RC-135 is still on station monitoring the war just outside Crimea in the black sea last I heard. The position it was in cannot sweep data from that much inland from the starting point at Duchany, either that RC-135 is plotting on the course for the Ukrainian counter offensive or they are doing SIGINT for Ukrainian troop already near Kherson. Notice that this RC-135 flew with NATO escort, unlike most of the time they hover outside international border solo.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Lancet and Shaheed-136 drones are turning out to be nightmares to the NATO's cannon fodder in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582737907693277185



*Iran’s U.N. representative sharply denied Western allegations that Tehran supplied Moscow with a fleet of drones for use in Ukraine.*









Iran calls Western allegations that it supplied Russia with drones 'disappointing,' calls for peaceful resolution of war


Moscow has carried out devastating drone strikes against what Ukraine said were civilian targets as well as critical infrastructure such as energy facilities.




www.cnbc.com





~

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582738603310198789

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## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> I think they had already broken thru Mylove and probably pressing into Nova Kakhovka or Kherson or both.
> 
> What strange is the RC-135 is still on station monitoring the war just outside Crimea in the black sea last I heard. The position it was in cannot sweep data from that much inland from the starting point at Duchany, either that RC-135 is plotting on the course for the Ukrainian counter offensive or they are doing SIGINT for Ukrainian troop already near Kherson. Notice that this RC-135 flew with NATO escort, unlike most of the time they hover outside international border solo.


Do you think they will use the thousands of “evacuating civilians” as literal human shields to pull back troops as well?

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Do you think they will use the thousands of “evacuating civilians” as literal human shields to pull back troops as well?


I think they will most likely put on civilian clothes and "Pretend" to be the thousands of evacuating civilians to pull back...

well, seriously tho, I don't know, there are talks with the Russian evacuation is just vacating the place for using nuke, or brusting the dam in Nova Kakhovka to flood Kherson (Which is IMO stupid because they will flood Crimea too.) to just a ploy to deploy chemical or biological weapon. 

I honestly don't know, and most likely NATO wouldn't know too because I suspect that is the reason why NATO send up that RC-135 to monitor the situation....


----------



## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582919886946578434


Oh no they are now using DooM Eternal OST now for combat footage 💀


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583039622686605313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582994079360905217


----------



## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> *Iran’s U.N. representative sharply denied Western allegations that Tehran supplied Moscow with a fleet of drones for use in Ukraine.*


For use in Ukraine is the point here


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> For use in Ukraine is the point here




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583050042784460800


----------



## ziaulislam

Clutch said:


> Cheap Chinese engines bought from Ali Baba by Iran are too loud!


As long as some one can deliver them in 1000s who cares...russia is buying them as they are using iran as their alibaba.

These will mostly be used as decoy



jhungary said:


> I think they will most likely put on civilian clothes and "Pretend" to be the thousands of evacuating civilians to pull back...
> 
> well, seriously tho, I don't know, there are talks with the Russian evacuation is just vacating the place for using nuke, or brusting the dam in Nova Kakhovka to flood Kherson (Which is IMO stupid because they will flood Crimea too.) to just a ploy to deploy chemical or biological weapon.
> 
> I honestly don't know, and most likely NATO wouldn't know too because I suspect that is the reason why NATO send up that RC-135 to monitor the situation....


Its because russia will go syria ...i.e bomb everything to obvillion


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

The average russian 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582856297204305920
Animorph but instead of cool animal you turn into a 💩💩💩 lada

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582861517266907136

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## ziaulislam

Russia last ditch effort will be tactical nukes on either large concentration of troops or a small city..
this would only happen when war is prolonged

Putin said all four regions are Russians and under nuclear protection

If Europe ends up supplying weapons like IRSTs, tanks..
it will come to this ultimately..
we all know how the west will respond..
ultimately it will be russian and ukraine loss..
Russia being pariah for few years and ukraine humanitarian crisis


----------



## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583050042784460800


as i said we didn't them the drones to use against Ukraine ,I doubt we even gave the the drones , we write on our drones in English not Russian , those drones certainly must be bult in Russia, Those bad  Russians just copied our design to tarnish our name  otherwise God forbade the day we support any side of any war.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583059305166942210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583021012102565889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583004739603640321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583057214159597569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583053356930863105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583051625899642880

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583012279817506816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583071846936682497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583069031820840961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583036375078932480

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## ziaulislam

best case scenrio, putin is removed..and russia withdraws but what happens to crimea..would ukraine want to take it


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582863719905734657


ziaulislam said:


> View attachment 887941
> 
> 
> best case scenrio, putin is removed..and russia withdraws but what happens to crimea..would ukraine want to take it



Withdraw from Russian land after annexation only happens in total defeat like what happened to Germany and Japan in WW2. If Moscow is nuked, I can see Russia withdraw from Crimea, Donetsk, Kherson.

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## jhungary

ziaulislam said:


> Its because russia will go syria ...i.e bomb everything to obvillion


Bomb what??

This isn't Syria where SDF and ISIS don't have AA platform, Ukraine have near peer Anti-Air System, you can try to hit Kherson with Shahed Drone with that 50kg warhead, you will probably need 100,000 of them to do the job, otherwise any fighter bomber that sent to Kherson would most likely be intercept with a mix of Buk, S-300, NASAM and IRIS-T.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Bomb what??
> 
> This isn't Syria where SDF and ISIS don't have AA platform, Ukraine have near peer Anti-Air System, you can try to hit Kherson with Shahed Drone with that 50kg warhead, you will probably need 100,000 of them to do the job, otherwise any fighter bomber that sent to Kherson would most likely be intercept with a mix of Buk, S-300, NASAM and IRIS-T.



Power plants and electrical substations is Achilles heel. Without electricity, Starlink don't work.

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## jhungary

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Power plants and electrical substations is Achilles heel. Without electricity, Starlink don't work.


Dude, if you want to be stupid, then go be stupid in your own corner, don't quote me over it.

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## AlKardai

Liz truss resigned just now. Hopefully she'll take her anti china sentiment with her

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583064507756122112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583039371074473990

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583069576023011328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583066494686351360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583054484049383425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583064565973032961

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583064596935454720

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## jhungary



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583021937718349825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583078875789426688


----------



## RoadAmerica

ziaulislam said:


> Russia last ditch effort will be tactical nukes on either large concentration of troops or a small city..
> this would only happen when war is prolonged
> 
> Putin said all four regions are Russians and under nuclear protection
> 
> If Europe ends up supplying weapons like IRSTs, tanks..
> it will come to this ultimately..
> we all know how the west will respond..
> ultimately it will be russian and ukraine loss..
> Russia being pariah for few years and ukraine humanitarian crisis


So sounds like Russia can’t handle the heat.
It’s like the bully who gets beat up and gets a gun because they can’t fight back

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## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Manned attack jets are a dying breed. Drones are the future.


And Russian have no significant drone Ucavs on their hand


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583073650227695617


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Lol


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582863719905734657
> 
> 
> Withdraw from Russian land after annexation only happens in total defeat like what happened to Germany and Japan in WW2. If Moscow is nuked, I can see Russia withdraw from Crimea, Donetsk, Kherson.


Lol with crap weapons they will definitely win in Ukraine LOL


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583075094150017024


White and Green with M/S said:


> Lol
> 
> Lol with crap weapons they will definitely win in Ukraine LOL



42 million people cannot beat 146 million people.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583080956575223808


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583075094150017024
> 
> 
> 42 million people cannot beat 146 million people.


Why you're so stupid 146 million are not all for fight 😆 just LOL

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

White and Green with M/S said:


> Why you're so stupid 146 million are not all for fight 😆 just LOL



3 times the population. In WW2 Allies had 2 times the population of Axis and this doomed Axis.


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Kalashnikov makes kamikaze drones


Show me then



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 3 times the population. In WW2 Allies had 2 times the population of Axis and this doomed Axis.


Your mental disorder has no cure with crap weapons they will not win in Ukraine

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

White and Green with M/S said:


> Show me then




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580894991073017857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582415541754466305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583021937718349825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583078875789426688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583075094150017024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583073650227695617

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582675730982240258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583075091658571777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583073756540375040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583068092850020354


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583074493475409922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583070909610414080


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580894991073017857
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582415541754466305
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583021937718349825
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583078875789426688
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583075094150017024
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583073650227695617


Its anti radar weapons you fool


----------



## Viet

Sanctions against Iran coming.
The Mullahs will feel the heat.
No more peaceful talks with the EU.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583021767626723328

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

White and Green with M/S said:


> Its anti radar weapons you fool



It has TV guidance. It has machine learning. It attacks tanks.



Viet said:


> Sanctions against Iran coming
> The Mullah will feel the heat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583021767626723328



China supplies all the components to Iran. Pretty much all the electronics in the West are made in China.


----------



## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583084890379411456
Goodbye Liz Truss, being a huge Zio didn't helped you 🤣😂

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

_Nabil_ said:


> Goodbye Liz Truss, being a huge Zio didn't helped you 🤣😂



Russia beat Liz Truss. UK was spending too much money on Ukraine war and broke its economy.

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## _Nabil_

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia beat Liz Truss. UK was spending too much money on Ukraine war and broke its economy.


And the lettuce won ✌️


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583075189969293312


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It has TV guidance. It has machine learning. It attacks tanks.


And Ukraine have a minimal tanks so what is the purpose



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China supplies all the components to Iran. Pretty much all the electronics in the West are made in China.


Lol get off your wet dreams kid


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583019608113836034

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583019618154971136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583019624102498305


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia beat Liz Truss. UK was spending too much money on Ukraine war and broke its economy.


UK have minimal military support for Ukraine doesn't effect its economy much

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## White and Green with M/S

Your mental disorder has no cure dude


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> times the population. In WW2 Allies had 2 times the population of Axis and this doomed Axis.

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## _Nabil_

White and Green with M/S said:


> UK have minimal military support for Ukraine doesn't effect its economy much


Seriously!!

Keyboard Warriors know better than UK government 🤣😂

The UK is already the second largest military donor to Ukraine, committing £2.3bn in 2022.









UK will match record Ukraine support in 2023


Prime Minister announces the UK will meet or exceed the amount of military aid spent on Ukraine in 2022 next year.




www.gov.uk


----------



## White and Green with M/S

_Nabil_ said:


> Seriously!!
> 
> Keyboard Warriors know better than UK government 🤣😂
> 
> The UK is already the second largest military donor to Ukraine, committing £2.3bn in 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK will match record Ukraine support in 2023
> 
> 
> Prime Minister announces the UK will meet or exceed the amount of military aid spent on Ukraine in 2022 next year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gov.uk


So its doesn't prove anything that UK economy is in because they are giving arms to Ukraine


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582990115692945408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582985729583767552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583053764755275778

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583048680512180224

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582973898244530176


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Sanctions against Iran coming.
> The Mullahs will feel the heat.
> No more peaceful talks with the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583021767626723328


sorry I had to laugh , those entities already sanctioned at least two time


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583096331853533184
RIP Russia

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## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> sorry I had to laugh , those entities already sanctioned at least two time


Its not just sanctions. This ruins the image of iran, and will push europe to agree/support harsher “other measures” to stop irans support for terrorism/aim for nukes. 

Win/win for usa and israel really.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583057822538903552

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----------



## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> I said "manufacture", I didnt say "design".
> You can design processors under a tree in Uganda if you have the right knowledge.
> You can't manufacture processors in Uganda or in Sweden, but you can in China, and if China someday conquere Taiwan, then there is no limits.
> Anyway, no need to design anything, it's already done.
> 
> "The drones" is a wide word.
> 
> We're talking about Shaheds-136, there is nothing to process there but a few data, there is no need to high speed processing. They can use general purpose processors, and if it uses another thing, a more dedicated hardware, it's because is cheaper, smallest and spend less energy.
> 
> e.g: A dedicated hardware to decode h264 video can be substituted to a general purpose hardware with the correct software, but it will spend several times more energy, it will be bigger in size/weight, and it will be twenty times more expensive. Mutatis mutandis: the same doing another processing tasks.
> 
> In short: Can the West stop Iran from manufacturing Shahed-136 with sanctions to pieces? No, because substitute pieces are everywhere. It's a crappy flying machine, his strong point is price, it's not technology.



They are using Digital Signal Processors.
They are not easily replaced by general purpose processor.
Any time a circuit is sanctioned, there is a redesign cycle, and this can easily be 1-2 years.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> sorry I had to laugh , those entities already sanctioned at least two time


But not by the EU yet my friend. Now the Mullahs have made EU to enemy. Europe treated Iran too well. No more.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583096137128751104

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583002995532345344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583112584047120384

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> Seriously!!
> 
> Keyboard Warriors know better than UK government 🤣😂
> 
> The UK is already the second largest military donor to Ukraine, committing £2.3bn in 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK will match record Ukraine support in 2023
> 
> 
> Prime Minister announces the UK will meet or exceed the amount of military aid spent on Ukraine in 2022 next year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gov.uk


dude, Liz Truss is NOT THE FIRST British PM support Ukraine war, Boris Johnson is, and he has already gone. Does that change anything? I wonder why nothing is said when he left office

I don't see Liz Truss leaving have any impact on Ukrainian war. Because Boris Johnson leaving have no impact on British Support, so your news belong here









Liz Truss news – live: PM resigns after less than seven weeks in Downing Street


Liz Truss has announced she is resigning as prime minister after just six weeks in the role. There will be a leadership election within a week, Ms Truss said. It comes after the chair of the 1922 Committee, Sir Graham Brady entered No 10 for a crisis meeting with the prime minister, followed...



defence.pk





Not here.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583125976061353985

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583087366918770688

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## Reashot Xigwin

What sanction does to a nation... 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582894917847699456

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## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine has no defense industry left. They were bombed.



Ukraine has great engineering brains.

They no need to manufacture pieces, just buy outside and assemble like the Iranian devils do.

A similar crappy drone but instead gnss guidance, sound guidance to follow and destroy shaheds-136.

The key to stop Iranian flying pistachios is doing another anti-system with the same or less price.

If you use high technology expensive pieces, then it's useless, because Shaheds pistachios are cheap.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> They are using Digital Signal Processors.
> They are not easily replaced by general purpose processor.
> Any time a circuit is sanctioned, there is a redesign cycle, and this can easily be 1-2 years.



"Digital Signal Processors" is a wide word too, so you must be more specific.

A USB sound card of 3 EUR is technically a "Digital Signal Processor" and you, of course, can't sanction it, because they are everywhere.

Every dedicated hardware processing task can be virtualized by software in a general purpose processor, everything, but it's more expensive and slower.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582848792465842177



Really desperate it seems


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583162184754159616


----------



## Soldier35

In Ukraine, they showed a homemade combat drone. The drone is designed to fight Russian UAVs, presumably Geran-2 drones. It is not clear how the drone stabilizes the sight






A new strike by the Russian Lancet drone on the launcher of the S-300 air defense system of the Ukrainian army has led to disputes among netizens. Many felt that the alleged drone strike was in a dummy launcher. We explain that this is not the case. When the drone approaches the target, the hatches of the missiles are closed on the launcher, after the impact they are torn off. Also, when magnified, you can see the tube of the hydraulic rocket lifting system. In dummies, this level of detail is never done. The explosion of rockets did not happen, apparently due to their absence in the installation.






In the fighting in Ukraine, a wide variety of weapons are used. The video shows the shooting of Luhansk military personnel from the Soviet automatic 57-mm anti-aircraft gun S-60. The S-60 gun was adopted by the USSR in 1950 and was exported to many countries of the world, where it was repeatedly used in military conflicts. A gun of this type greatly helped the North Vietnamese army during the Vietnam War. The technical rate of fire of the gun is 60-70 rounds per minute. Firing range 6000 meters.






Filming of the broken military column of the Ukrainian army was made by one of its commanders in the Kherson region. The video shows damaged French VAB 4x4 armored vehicles, British Husky TVS armored vehicles and about a dozen civilian trucks used for military transport.

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## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> Its not just sanctions. This ruins the image of iran, and will push europe to agree/support harsher “other measures” to stop irans support for terrorism/aim for nukes.
> 
> Win/win for usa and israel really.


are you kidding , there is no week in last 19 year that at least one new sanction didn't placed on Iran .

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583167098246733824

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> But not by the EU yet my friend. Now the Mullahs have made EU to enemy. Europe treated Iran too well. No more.


well we didn't saw a sanction by usa that didn't obeyed by european so no it wont affect the production . it only waste of some paper. when the entity is already effectively sanctioned .


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583167900952629249
US Congress intends to pass $50B in military aid for Ukraine to cover the entirety of next year

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583125976061353985


wonder from where they managed to get those 4 kit


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583169454359257088

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> What sanction does to a nation...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582894917847699456


guys guys , new node , thats natural , if you look TSMC node that produced Fermi GPU for nVIDIA was actually worse , after-1-2 year there was no such problem with that node , when they produced Kepler GPU's


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> guys guys , new node , thats natural , if you look TSMC node that produced Fermi GPU for nVIDIA was actually worse , after-1-2 year there was no such problem with that node , when they produced Kepler GPU's


40% failure rate is unnatural. It as if Chinese actually built it to fail in the 1st place.


----------



## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583167900952629249
> US Congress intends to pass $50B in military aid for Ukraine to cover the entirety of next year


intrestingly if i recall correctly there was no money for education system . more precisely there was no money to raise the wage of teachers if recall correctly somewhere around newyork


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583171340143538176

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> 40% failure rate is unnatural. It as if Chinese actually built it to fail in the 1st place.


well the original story is something else
https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/18/russia_china_semiconductro_failure_rates/

it don't say china products are bad , it seems after the Ukraine war , china mix dud chips with legit one and send them to Russia . it say before the war the failure rate was 2% after it , there is a 1900% failure rate increase and it become 40%

seems china is up to something here


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583171340143538176


I hope the war doesn't end soon. Russia still needs to bleed a lot more before they tapped out.



Hack-Hook said:


> well the original story is something else
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/18/russia_china_semiconductro_failure_rates/
> 
> it don't say china products are bad , it seems after the Ukraine war , china mix dud chips with legit one and send them to Russia . it say before the war the failure rate was 2% after it , there is a 1900% failure rate increase and it become 40%
> 
> seems china is up to something here


Chinese chips being bad is pretty much a fact. One review from a computer engineer about the Chinese kirin chip is that it only strong enough to run windows office.

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## Bleek

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Are u kidding me? Do you know that the bill for one starlink account is around $600. What elon wants is to make even more money of the hundreds of millions he already earned.


So?


----------



## Beny Karachun

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Are u kidding me? Do you know that the bill for one starlink account is around $600. What elon wants is to make even more money of the hundreds of millions he already earned.


Yeah, I'm Ukrainian myself, but it isn't Musk's responsibility to pay for it. Thankfully he is paying for it though.

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## _Nabil_

WASHINGTON/LONDON, Oct 20 (Reuters) - U.S. firms developing a new generation of small nuclear power plants to help cut carbon emissions have a big problem: only one company sells the fuel they need, and it's Russian.
.
.
.
Full article here: 

_








America's new nuclear power industry has a Russian problem


U.S. firms developing a new generation of small nuclear power plants to help cut carbon emissions have a big problem: only one company sells the fuel they need, and it's Russian.




www.reuters.com




_


----------



## _Nabil_

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583125976061353985


Better than stagging in front a green screen 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583123468458942465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583095700870823937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582972470994161665


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## Reashot Xigwin

Beny Karachun said:


> Yeah, I'm Ukrainian myself, but it isn't Musk's responsibility to pay for it. Thankfully he is paying for it though.


He didn't pay for it. The US, Poland & ordinary Ukrainian paid for it.



_Nabil_ said:


> Better than stagging in front a green screen
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583123468458942465
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583095700870823937
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582972470994161665


Fun fact: Putin never visited his troop in the frontline

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530993902832037888


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Russia choosing suicide the long way around. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583153920461111301

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583161615872294913


----------



## The SC

Kherson situation!


----------



## Shawnee

US general, Frank McKnzie calls Iranian drones very good/effective.

A killer for power grids.

50 percent success rate per McKenzie.
Low cost that Iran makes 1000s.

He has witnessed the attacks himself.


----------



## Shawnee

Shawnee said:


> US general, Frank McKnzie calls Iranian drones very good/effective.
> 
> A killer for power grids.
> 
> 50 percent success rate per McKenzie.
> Low cost that Iran makes 1000s.
> 
> He has witnessed the attacks himself.



CNN on results of drone:

Ukraine rations electricity to avoid power black.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583217381714718720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583218641050677249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583217760762736640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583163480840245248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583156959444099073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583093436928102402

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583077280997572608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583197429209309184

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## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583217381714718720
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583218641050677249
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583217760762736640
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583163480840245248
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583156959444099073
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583093436928102402


And why you're living in Canada go fight with Russian if you love Russia so much

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583174594495926272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583091216677490688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583097308635226112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583200736971661312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583219007896768512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583199092724748288


White and Green with M/S said:


> And why you're living in Canada go fight with Russian if you love Russia so much



I'm Chinese.

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## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I'm Chinese.


If you're Chinese than why you always take a side of Russia?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583197627700891648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583196963662876672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583150533073727489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583121466098585602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583119501452668928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583103408395157504


White and Green with M/S said:


> If you're Chinese than why you always take a side of Russia?



Because I do business and Russia has more population and therefore a more profitable market than Ukraine.

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## White and Green with M/S

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583197627700891648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583196963662876672
> 
> 
> Because I do business and Russia has more population and therefore a more profitable market than Ukraine.


😆 lol your mental disorder has no cure keep barking senseless

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## F-22Raptor

U.S. has viewed wreckage of kamikaze drones Russia used in Ukraine​
The U.S. government has examined the wreckage of Iranian-made drones shot down in Ukraine, deepening its insight into the unmanned craft that Russia has launched in a spate of kamikaze attacks on the country’s critical infrastructure, according to two U.S. officials.

Information about the drones’ structure and technology could prove crucial in helping the United States and its Ukrainian allies better identify and ultimately defeat them before they can reach their targets. Officials said the process has been used in the past to study weaponry deployed by Iran’s proxies in conflicts in the Middle East. People interviewed for this report spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence collection.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/10/20/russia-iran-kamikaze-drones/

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583095475627995136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583091978803109889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583083094365859846

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## Vergennes

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Because I do business and Russia has more population and therefore a more profitable market than Ukraine.



@waz @Jango @WebMaster @Horus seriously how is this guy still allowed to spread his BS on every categories of this forum ?  He's of the same type of that hindustani guy.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583173117987344384

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583193197345271808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583166929908289536


Vergennes said:


> @waz @Jango @WebMaster @Horus seriously how is this guy still allowed to spread his BS on every categories of this forum ?  He's of the same type of that hindustani guy.



I didn't break any forum rules.

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## PDF

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583086757028847616

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583074493475409922


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583165771898757123

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583239179386830848

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583215806162223104

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## PDF




----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583223042662363137


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 20​Oct 20, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Karolina Hird, Katherine Lawlor, Riley Bailey, George Barros, Nicholas Carl, and Frederick W. Kagan
October 20, 7:00pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russia is likely continuing to prepare for a false flag attack on the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (HPP). *Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky stated on October 20 that Russian forces mined the dam of the Kakhovka HPP and noted that the HPP holds over 18 million cubic meters of water, which would cause massive and rapid flooding of settlements along the Dnipro River, including Kherson City.[1] Zelensky emphasized that the flooding would impact hundreds of thousands of people.[2] Russian sources, however, continued to accuse Ukrainian forces of shelling the Kakhovka HPP and have widely circulated graphics depicting the flood path in the event of a dam breach.[3] As ISW reported on October 19, Russian sources are likely setting information conditions for Russian forces to blow the dam after they withdraw from western Kherson Oblast and accuse Ukrainian forces of flooding the Dnipro River and surrounding settlements, partially in an attempt to cover their retreat further into eastern Kherson Oblast.[4] Continued Russian preparation for a false-flag attack on the Kakhovka HPP is also likely meant to distract from reports of Russian losses in Kherson Oblast.
*Russian forces are likely setting conditions to remove military and occupation elements from the west bank of the Dnipro River in anticipation of imminent Ukrainian advances.* Kherson City Telegram accounts claimed on October 20 that Russian forces disbanded and looted a fire station in Kherson City and ferried fire trucks, stolen civilian cars, and other miscellaneous household items across the Dnipro River to Hola Prystan.[5] ISW cannot independently confirm those reports. The Ukrainian service of _Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty _also reported on October 20 that Russian forces are moving military equipment from the west bank to the east bank of the Dnipro River in the face of recent Ukrainian advances, and posted satellite imagery that shows a Russian cargo ferry traveling across the Dnipro River from Kozatske (west bank) to Nova Kakhovka (east bank).[6] _Radio Liberty _noted that the ferry is fully loaded when it arrives at Nova Kakhovka and empty when it returns to Kozatske and suggested that this movement has been ongoing since early October.[7] Taken in tandem, these reports indicate that Russian troops are likely deliberately removing large amounts of personnel and equipment from the west bank of the Dnipro River. Russian forces have likely learned, at least in part, from their failures during the panicked Russian retreat from Kharkiv Oblast in the face of a previous Ukrainian counteroffensive. The militarily sensible thing would be to remove men and equipment in good order to avoid another devastating rout. Such a rout in Kherson could trap Russian forces and equipment on the west bank of the Dnipro River.
*The White House confirmed on October 20 that Iranian military personnel are in Russian-occupied Crimea, Ukraine, to assist Russian forces in conducting drone attacks on Ukrainian civilians and civilian infrastructure. *US National Security Council Spokesperson John Kirby told reporters that “a relatively small number” of Iranian personnel are in Crimea to train Russian personnel in the use of unfamiliar Iranian-made drones.[8] Kirby emphasized that “Tehran is now directly engaged on the ground and through the provision of weapons that are impacting civilians and civilian infrastructure in Ukraine, that are killing civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure in Ukraine” and warned that Russia and Iran will continue to lie about their partnership. Russian officials have continued to deny their purchase of Iranian drones, but the existence of the deal is increasingly common knowledge even within Russia. A member of the Russian Ministry of Defense Public Council, Ruslan Pukhov, believed he was not being recorded when he told a Russian television host live on air on October 20 that “we won’t rock the boat too much, so I ask you not to [focus] too much on those Iranian [drones], like that classic story: ‘you have an *** but no word for it.’ We all know that they’re Iranian, but the authorities are not admitting that.”[9] Iranian officials have also denied the sales despite the widespread Russian use of Iranian drones in Ukraine since mid-September, but Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei boasted on October 19 that ”a few years ago, when pictures of [Iran’s] advanced missiles & drones were published, they said they’re photoshopped pictures! Now they say Iranian drones are dangerous [and ask] why do you sell them to so & so?”[10]
*Iran is providing military support to Russian forces in Ukraine despite new international sanctions likely in part because Iranian leaders believe that they need Moscow’s help to upend the US-led global order*. The European Union imposed additional sanctions on Iranian officials and the manufacturer of the Shahed-136 drones that Iran has sold to Russia for use in Ukraine on October 20.[11] Senior Iranian officials and state media frequently argue that Tehran must expand strategic relations with Russia and China to cooperate toward countering US global influence.[12] Iranian leaders may worry that a Russian failure in Ukraine would seriously disrupt this vision and possibly threaten Vladimir Putin’s hold on power and, therefore, Iran’s security. Iran could further expand its military support to Russia in the coming months.
*The risk of a Russian offensive from Belarus into northern Ukraine remains low despite a prominent Ukrainian official’s October 20 warning that the risk of a Russian offensive from Belarus is “growing.” *The deputy chief of the Main Operational Department of the Ukrainian General Staff, Brigadier General Oleksiy Hromov, stated that the risk of a renewed offensive from Russian forces against northern Ukraine is growing.[13] Hromov stated that Russian forces may attack northwest Ukraine to disrupt Ukrainian supply lines from Western partner countries. Such a course of action remains unlikely in the coming months given that Russian forces lack the capability even to interdict Ukrainian supply lines from the west with a ground offensive. The nearest Ukrainian east-west rail line is 30 km from the Belarusian border, and the Pripet Marshes in northern Ukraine and Belarus make maneuver warfare across the international border in Volyn and Rivne oblasts exceptionally difficult. Ukraine’s road and rail network has sufficient nodes with Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Hungary that a Russian incursion from Belarus could not seriously degrade Ukrainian logistical lines without projecting deeper into Ukraine than Russians did during the Battle of Kyiv, when Russian forces were at their strongest. Those forces are now significantly degraded. A Russian milblogger reiterated on October 20 that the Russian force group in Belarus is too small to threaten Kyiv.[14] White House National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby reiterated on October 20 that Belarus may concentrate manpower on the border to fix Ukrainian forces in northern Ukraine and prevent their deployment to the active area of operation in southern and eastern Ukraine, as ISW has assessed.[15]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russia is likely continuing to prepare for a false-flag attack on the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (HPP).*
*Russian forces are likely setting conditions to remove military and occupation elements from the west bank of the Dnipro River in anticipation of imminent Ukrainian advances.*
*The White House confirmed on October 20 that Iranian military personnel are in Russian-occupied Crimea, Ukraine to assist Russian forces in conducting drone attacks on Ukrainian civilians and civilian infrastructure.*
*Iran is providing military support to Russian forces in Ukraine despite new international sanctions likely in part because Iranian leaders believe that they need Moscow’s help to upend the US-led global order*.
*Iran is providing military support to Russian forces in Ukraine despite new international sanctions likely in part because Iranian leaders believe that they need Moscow’s help to upend the US-led global order*.
*Russian sources continued to claim that Russian forces are consolidating limited regained positions in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast on October 20 despite Ukrainian reports that Ukraine has liberated all but 1.8% of Kharkiv Oblast.*
*Russian sources indicated that Ukrainian troops have advanced in northern Kherson Oblast as Ukrainian forces continued their interdiction campaign.*
*Russian forces continued to conduct ground assaults in Donetsk Oblast but Russian sources contradicted their own claims on control of Bakhmut. Russian forces are likely continuing to falsify claims of advances in the Bakhmut area to portray themselves as making gains in at least one sector amid continuing losses in northeast and southern Ukraine.*
*Russian regional governments and the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) continue to blame each other for military administrative failures.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Oskil River-Kreminna Line)*
Russian sources continued to claim that Russian forces are consolidating limited positions in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast on October 20 that Russian forces allegedly regained over the last few days. Several Russian milbloggers claimed that Russian troops took control of a segment of the railway line in Horobivka, 16km northeast of Kupyansk.[16] However, Ukrainian Kharkiv Oblast Head Oleh Synehubov noted that Ukrainian troops have liberated all but 1.8 percent (32 unspecified villages) of an unspecified area of Kharkiv Oblast, which suggests that unsubstantiated Russian claims of regained territory in this area likely reflect extremely limited gains compared to the recent sweeping Ukrainian counteroffensive that retook almost the entire oblast.[17] ISW’s maps currently depict about 3-4 percent of Kharkiv Oblast under Russian control or advances. ISW will update its maps as soon as it has sufficient data to further clarify the control of terrain.
Russian and Ukrainian forces likely continued fighting along the Svatove-Kreminna line on October 20. Ukrainian Luhansk Oblast Head Serhiy Haidai reported heavy fighting along the frontline in the directions of Kreminna and Svatove.[18] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian troops repelled a Russian attack near Bilohorivka, about 10km south of Kreminna in the vicinity of Lysychansk.[19] Several Russian sources discussed continued Ukrainian attempts to cross the Zherebets River west of Kreminna around Nadiya, Stelmakhivka, Makiivka, and Yampolivka, each about 15km west of Kreminna.[20]



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Ukrainian military officials offered limited insight into ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensive actions in Kherson Oblast on October 20. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian units are active along the entire frontline and that Russian troops are taking defensive measures, regrouping, engineering fortifications, and mining areas of projected Ukrainian advance.[21] Deputy chief of the Main Operational Department of the Ukrainian General Staff, Brigadier General Oleksiy Hromov, noted that Russia has concentrated up to 45 battalion tactical groups (BTGs) in the Kherson ”direction” to defend against ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensives.[22] Hromov additionally reported that Ukrainian troops improved their tactical positions around Blahodatne, about 40km north of Kherson City, but did not offer additional details.[23]
Russian sources indicated that Ukrainian troops have advanced in northern Kherson Oblast. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) acknowledged on October 20 that Ukrainian forces penetrated Russian defenses around Sukhanove, about 30km north of Beryslav, and claimed Russian forces repelled the attack.[24] The Russian MoD also stated that Russian troops struck Piatykhatky, which lies 8km northwest of Sukhanove and 40km north of Beryslav, confirming that Ukrainian troops have taken control of the settlement.[25] Other Russian sources reported that Ukrainian troops attempted to break through Russian defenses in that area toward Beryslav from the Nova Kamianka area.[26] ISW has not observed independent verification of these Russian claims.
Ukrainian forces additionally continued their ongoing interdiction campaign against Russian military assets and concentration areas in Kherson Oblast on October 20. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command noted that Ukrainian strikes destroyed two Russian ammunition depots around Beryslav on October 19.[27] Social media footage and reports from residents of Nova Kakhovka showed explosions following Ukrainian strikes in the area on October 20.[28]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to conduct ground assaults in Donetsk Oblast on October 20. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults near Bakhmut, northeast of Bakhmut near Bakhmutske (11km northeast of Bakhmut), southwest of Bakhmut near Klishchiivka (7km southwest of Bakhmut) and Opytne (4km south of Bakhmut).[29] A Russian miblogger claimed on October 20 that Wagner units advanced near the southern outskirts of Bakhmut.[30] The Russian milblogger also claimed that Ukrainian forces launched a counterattack near Ivanhrad (4km southeast of Bakhmut) to hold back advancing Wagner forces so that Ukrainian strike groups could reposition in the Bakhmut direction.[31] Another Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces have also made minimal gains over the past five days in Soledar (12km northeast of Bakhmut).[32] ISW cannot independently verify these Russian claims. Russian outlet _RIA _published a map on October 20 showing Ukrainian control over most of Bakhmut despite repeated claims made by numerous Russian sources that Russian forces are operating within Bakhmut itself, supporting ISW‘s assessment that Russian forces are likely falsifying claims of advances in the Bakhmut area to portray themselves as making gains in at least one sector amid continuing losses in northeast and southern Ukraine.[33] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground attacks south of Avdiivka near Krasnohorivka (23km southwest of Avdiivka), Novomykhailivka (37km southwest of Avdiivka), Nevelske (16km southwest of Avdiivka), and Marinka (27km southwest of Avdiivka).[34] A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces also conducted assaults north of Avdiivka near Keramik (15km north of Avdiivka), Novobakhmutivka (15km northwest of Avdiivka), Niu-York (23km northeast of Avdiivka), and the Mayorsk Railway Station.[35] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued routine indirect fire along the line of contact in Donetsk Oblast.[36]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued to conduct routine artillery, air, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole, and in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv oblasts on October 20.[37] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck Marhanets, Chervonohryhorivka, Mykolaiv City, Ochakiv, and Bereznehuvate.[38] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces struck energy infrastructure in Kryvyi Rih Raion with S-300 missiles.[39] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces conducted drone attacks in Mykolaiv Oblast and that Ukrainian air defenses shot down 14 Russian drones and reported Ukrainian forces intercepted most of the drones.[40] The Ukrainian General Staff reported on October 20 that Ukrainian forces struck and damaged up to 150 Russian personnel and 15 vehicles in Zaporizhia Oblast in the past few days.[41]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Russian regional governments and the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) continue to blame each other for military administrative failures. Russian MoD officials mobilized a Russian physical education teacher in Pskov Oblast despite the Pskov Oblast governor’s previous statement that physical education teachers are exempt from mobilization.[42] A local Pskov Russian Telegram channel commented on the conflict between the Pskov Oblast governor and local MoD-run military commissariat, noting that local military registration and enlistment offices pay little attention to what Russian governors want or say.[43] Family members of Russian servicemembers from Kursk Oblast complained to the local government about the lack of information about their family members fighting in Ukraine’s Kharkiv Oblast.[44] Soldiers’ relatives contacted Kursk Oblast government officials and stated neither the governor nor the military commissariat knows where their relatives’ unit is currently deployed. Kursk Oblast Governor Roman Starovoit publicly deflected responsibility, stating that “all military commissariat and enlistment offices relate to the [MoD] and are not under the jurisdiction of the Kursk Oblast Administration.”[45]
Russian authorities continue mobilizing Russian men at least into November 2022 despite increasingly framing mobilization as complete. Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated that Russian leadership will continue its “first stage” of mobilization until November 25.[46] Russian President Vladimir Putin previously stated on October 14 that mobilization would be over “within about two weeks” (around October 28).[47] Putin claimed that Russia had already mobilized 220,000 people as of October 14. Magadan Oblast Governor Sergei Nosov announced that Magadan Oblast completed its mobilization on October 20.[48] Malyar stated on October 20 that Russian forces have mobilized approximately 200,000 people, about two-thirds of the target of 300,000 as of October 20.[49]
The Russian military continues to face difficulties in procuring body armor for Russian forces. Russian Federation Council Senator Lyudmila Narusova complained of the almost 2,000-percent increase in Russian body armor prices, up to 135,000 rubles (almost $2,200), since January 2022 and called on Russian antimonopoly authorities to investigate.[50] A Russian milblogger reported that the situation with Russian mobilized men having bad equipment is improving in terms of public attention and prioritization but that Russian troops are still receiving bad equipment. The milblogger argued that Russian forces receiving body armor may not make a difference since Russian body armor issued to mobilized forces demonstrably does not protect against small arms.[51] 
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
See topline text.
*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update.*
[1] https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/rosijskij-teror-maye-prograti-ukray...
[2] https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/rosijskij-teror-maye-prograti-ukray...
[3]https://****/rybar/40450; https://****/readovkanews/44878; https://t.m...
[4] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[5] https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1583046458474778626; https:/...
[6] https://www.facebook.com/sergey.khlan/posts/pfbid02u1kBYJyFw4RKt7nnjJVLG...(dot)radiosvoboda.org/a/skhemy-armiya-rf-khersonshchyna/32092006.html?fbclid=IwAR3mE-BPsb0H4aiZwe3JNqLMqQljb4bz6BPkjvP-sqw2ZOqZjIU1O2Hss20
[7] https://www.facebook.com/sergey.khlan/posts/pfbid02u1kBYJyFw4RKt7nnjJVLG...(dot)radiosvoboda.org/a/skhemy-armiya-rf-khersonshchyna/32092006.html?fbclid=IwAR3mE-BPsb0H4aiZwe3JNqLMqQljb4bz6BPkjvP-sqw2ZOqZjIU1O2Hss20
[8] https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/20/politics/white-house-iran-drones-crimea/i...
[9] https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1583107961647341569?s=20&t=sLU...
[10] https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/1582694255176298496?s=20&t=Ad-7cC...
[11] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/19/world/europe/eu-sanctions-iran-drones...
[12] www.tasnimnews dot com/fa/news/1401/04/31/2746522; www.fourdo dot ir/fa/news/14791; www.irna dot ir/news/84279066
[13] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I60ddXcd370&ab_channel=%D0%92%D1%96%D0%B...
[14] https://****/voenkorKotenok/41887
[15] https://twitter.com/OstapYarysh/status/1583156698566381569; https://und... https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[16] https://****/epoddubny/13225; https://****/militarymaps/29720
[17] https://****/stranaua/70895; https://strana dot news/news/412276-v-kharkovskoj-oblasti-sozdali-tri-linii-oborony-deokkupatsija-prodolzhaetsja.html
[18] https://****/serhiy_hayday/8430
[19] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02GB3oXswaYZbGDZCzQ4...
[20] https://****/mod_russia/21017; https://****/RVvoenkor/29804; https://t...
[21] https://www.facebook.com/okPivden/videos/1254932568397236/; https://www...
[22] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I60ddXcd370&ab_channel=%D0%92%D1%96%D0%B...
[23] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I60ddXcd370&ab_channel=%D0%92%D1%96%D0%B...
[24] https://****/mod_russia/21017
[25] https://****/voenacher/31492
[26] https://****/rybar/40436 ; https://****/rybar/40452; https://****/rea...
[27] https://****/Bratchuk_Sergey/21094; https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=6...
[28] https://****/hueviyherson/27698; https://****/hueviyherson/27701
[29] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02GB3oXswaYZbGDZCzQ4...
[30] https://****/rybar/40467
[31] https://****/rybar/40467
[32] https://****/evgeniy_lisitsyn/1450 
[33] https://****/riafan_everywhere/13858; https://understandingwar.org/back...
[34] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02GB3oXswaYZbGDZCzQ4...\
[35] https://****/wargonzo/8805
[36] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0VhWKgs6tTS5nNqGa1k4...
[37] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0VhWKgs6tTS5nNqGa1k4... ; https://****/spravdi/19451 ;
[38]
[39]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1254932568397236




[40] https://www.facebook.com/okPivden/videos/1254932568397236/ ; https://t...
[41] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02GB3oXswaYZbGDZCzQ4...
[42] https://gubernia dot media/news/gubernator-pskovskoy-oblasti-poprosil-voenkomaty-ne-vygrebat-vseh-kto-popad/; https://gubernia1.port0 dot org/news/mobilizovannyy-uchitel-fizkultury-iz-pskovskogo-rayona-ne-podlezhal-bronirovan/; https://****/guberniaband/4968; https://****/guberniaband/4957; https:... org/news/nesmotrya-na-slova-vedernikova-v-pskovskom-rayone-ne-otmenili-mobilizaciyu-edi/
[43] https://****/guberniaband/4968 ; https://****/guberniaband/4957
[44] https://****/astrapress/14349; https://focus dot ua/voennye-novosti/533559-brosili-v-lesu-kak-sobak-70-mobilizovannyh-rossiyan-poteryalis-v-ukraine-bez-bk-edy-i-vody
[45] https://****/astrapress/14349; https://focus dot ua/voennye-novosti/533559-brosili-v-lesu-kak-sobak-70-mobilizovannyh-rossiyan-poteryalis-v-ukraine-bez-bk-edy-i-vody
[46] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I60ddXcd370&ab_channel=%D0%92%D1%96%D0%B...
[47] https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-claims-partial-mobilization-to-end...
[48] https://****/readovkanews/44857; https://kolymaplus dot ru/news/zadachi-po-chastichnoy-mobilizacii-magadanskaya-oblast-vypolnila-polnostyu/20649
[49] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I60ddXcd370&ab_channel=%D0%92%D1%96%D0%B...
[50] https://www.vedomosti dot ru/politics/news/2022/10/19/946306-sovfede-prizvali-razobratsya-rostom-tsen-na-voennoe-snaryazhenie
[51] https://****/rybar/40440; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjinFyKmNAI&f...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583086624665370627


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583039622686605313



I can only see the Ukrainian Coat of Arms in the debris. So not sure how that can be a Russian Ka-52 helicopter if it has the Ukrainian symbol shown below. I think this propaganda wasn't well thought out.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583240741643427840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583219007896768512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583199092724748288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583197627700891648

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583196963662876672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583189339521314816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583166497345585153

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583103408395157504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583103076696629253

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583023693487562752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583254018909798400

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## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> Genius: this thread is about NATO and Ukraine and Russia. China , despite what you think, is not relevant. Its military capabilities may be like North Koreas or it may be the best in the world. In eitehr case its not relevant here on this thread.
> 
> With the rest of your rant, you are Deluded like your leadership thats announced emperor Xi for the third time and launched a carrier with Naval aviation that can't conduct night operations just so it can do some minor power projection in its backyard. Yes keep on getting brainwashed, it doesn't change the outcome of the world just because you are inflated on party propaganda and because you can't voice any disagreement in China you show up here to vent.


China is not relevant? Okay hwo about the main export market for Russian energy now financing the war genius. Lol

Yes of course Chinese aircraft can't take off at night, I am very very sure about that. Lololol

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> well we didn't saw a sanction by usa that didn't obeyed by european so no it wont affect the production . it only waste of some paper. when the entity is already effectively sanctioned .


Well, the EU pursed a more friendly posture towards Iran unlike the US. sanctions have psycho effects. As said, no more niceties, the EU places you on enemy list.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Well, the EU pursed a more friendly posture towards Iran unlike the US. sanctions have psycho effects. As said, no more niceties, the EU places you on enemy list.



EU barely has any manufacturing left. 99.9% of electronics in the West are made in China these days.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583201254574288897

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## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> 7 percent. That is the percentage of EU gas imports from Russia. That will go to zero next year. Without EU market Russia status as energy superpower is finished. Threaten nuclear war won’t change anything. If Putin starts a nuclear war the Nato would respond.


The same thing was said for Iran and North Korea, yet those countries continue to exist. Stop parroting propaganda. China and India are supporting Russia together with most of third world countries.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> EU barely has any manufacturing left. 99.9% of electronics in the West are made in China these days.


Stop trolling!



khansaheeb said:


> The same thing was said for Iran and North Korea, yet those countries continue to exist. Stop parroting propaganda. China and India are supporting Russia together with most of third world countries.


You mean when China, India buy cheap oil = support Russia? Well then be it.
The third world suffers hunger and starvation because Russia blockade foods and fertilizer I don’t think they are happy.

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## sammuel

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583193197345271808



Not sure it is still standing . . .
Explosions were reported near Antonivsky bridge in Kherson​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583188699998998528


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I didn't break any forum rules.



The mere volume of your massages , constitute spam.

Most of what you post are not important war updates , but propaganda , most here don't want to waste time on.

~

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


>



Russia has 3 to 4 times the population of Ukraine. Even if 1 Ukrainian soldier can fight 2 Russian soldiers, Ukraine still loses war.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed




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## Lehrasap

khansaheeb said:


> The same thing was said for Iran and North Korea, yet those countries continue to exist. Stop parroting propaganda. China and India are supporting Russia together with most of third world countries.


And we can see how the rest of the world and the people of North Korea and Iran are themselves against their regimes.
Same will be the fate of Putin, and he will be hated not only by the rest of the world, but by his own people too.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


>



Russia makes 100 T-90M a year.



Lehrasap said:


> And we can see how the rest of the world and the people of North Korea and Iran are themselves against their regimes.
> Same will be the fate of Putin, and he will be hated not only by the rest of the world, but by his own people too.



Napoleon and Hitler and Mussolini were loved by their people.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed




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## Lehrasap

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia has 3 to 4 times the population of Ukraine. Even if 1 Ukrainian soldier can fight 2 Russian soldiers, Ukraine still loses war.


This argument is not valid. 
Ukrainians are not running away from war, but Russians are running away to other countries in order to avoid to join war. 
That is why Ukrainians are winning on the ground.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed



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## Lehrasap

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Napoleon and Hitler and Mussolini were loved by their people.



The reality of present day is there are hardly any Germany left who love Hitler. Not only the whole world, but majority of Germans themselves hate Hitler.

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## khansaheeb

Lehrasap said:


> And we can see how the rest of the world and the people of North Korea and Iran are themselves against their regimes.
> Same will be the fate of Putin, and he will be hated not only by the rest of the world, but by his own people too.


Europe is not most of the world.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed



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## sammuel

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583240741643427840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583166497345585153



YOU ARE POSTING CLIPS THAT WHERE ALREADY POSTED HERE A MOMENT AGO < AND YOU WONDER WHY PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT YOUR SPAM ?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583261746705600513

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## Lehrasap

khansaheeb said:


> Europe is not most of the world.



It is not only Europe but indeed the most of the world which hates North Korea and Mullah Government of Iran and Taliban.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583142669689102337


Lehrasap said:


> This argument is not valid.
> Ukrainians are not running away from war, but Russians are running away to other countries in order to avoid to join war.
> That is why Ukrainians are winning on the ground.



Prove it.



khansaheeb said:


> Europe is not most of the world.



Europe doesn't have anything outside Germany, France, UK.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed




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## khansaheeb

Lehrasap said:


> This argument is not valid.
> Ukrainians are not running away from war, but Russians are running away to other countries in order to avoid to join war.
> That is why Ukrainians are winning on the ground.


Who are you kidding, 10 Million Ukrainians ran across European borders.


Lehrasap said:


> It is not only Europe but indeed the most of the world which hates North Korea and Mullah Government of Iran and Taliban.


Keep living in fantasy world of Euro self importance.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


>



Kornet is deadly to personnel and fortification because of thermobaric warhead. Also, vehicle launched Kornet has auto tracking which is fire and forget.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed




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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583201590051475457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583201599182098433

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583316623561138176

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed



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## Viet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582712521789964290

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581369040013967361

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed




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## AZMwi

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583156959444099073


Classic lol

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## aviator_fan

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> @Vergennes is French.
> 
> French don't like the Anglo Saxons (Americans, British , Germans).
> 
> France is preparing to quit NATO shortly.


And you know this because you wanted with the French parliament just now and we don't know the results? The French are their own identity yes, but may be you haven't heard they are shipping mor artillery to the war zone. This would be like saying Russia is ending because of all the military brass that Putin keeps firing or heads of companies dying in hospital beds. Sounds ridicilous

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Europe is not most of the world.


Most of the world DID NOT support Russia, Most of the population of the world, namely China and India, are staying neutral, staying neural is not supporting Russia, it mean I don't support either side, only Belarus, Syria, Nicargara, North Korea support Russia in that latest UN vote, and of those only North Korea and Syria is directly supporting Russia.

On the other hand, US and EU made up slightly more than 2/3 of World Economy. It does not really matter if a person in Boswana does not support Ukraine, because they can't give up to support anyway, but EU and US, represent 2/3 of the world economic support Ukraine, it means 2/3 of the world economy is backing Ukraine, and the other 1/3 (mainly China) can only either play ball or go to war with US and EU economically. Which for them will be a suicide. The only problem is, EU and US can trad with each other and salvage at least some of the market, who can China trade with??

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## ZeGerman

Can the russian cheerleaders ln this thread check eachothers previous posts and not repost the same videos 4 to 5 times please?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583316623561138176



Wow, Ukrainian bodies and destroyed armor are littered in Kherson. It seems the human wave campaign launched by NATO's cannon fodder (aka Ukrainian army) is suffering heavy casualties. 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583200234397896704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583190629756325888

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Wow, Ukrainian bodies and destroyed armor are littered in Kherson. It seems the human wave campaign launched by NATO's cannon fodder (aka Ukrainian army) is suffering heavy casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583200234397896704
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583190629756325888



It looks like GOP wins House. No more money for Zelensky.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

aviator_fan said:


> And you know this because you wanted with the French parliament just now and we don't know the results? The French are their own identity yes, but may be you haven't heard they are shipping mor artillery to the war zone. This would be like saying Russia is ending because of all the military brass that Putin keeps firing or heads of companies dying in hospital beds. Sounds ridicilous



LOL French are in no mood to support the NATO against Russia.


Macron under fire for saying France wouldn’t respond in kind if Russia launched nuclear attack on Ukraine​French president says Paris would not trigger a nuclear response if Russia launched such a strike ‘in Ukraine or in the region.’





French President Emmanuel Macron said on Wednesday that Paris would “evidently” not use nuclear weapons in response | Sean Gallup/Getty Images

BY CLEA CAULCUTT
OCTOBER 13, 2022 6:22 PM

PARIS – Emmanuel Macron’s recent comments on the French response in case of a Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine have drawn fire from observers and political opponents at home.

During an interview with French TV channel France 2, the French president said on Wednesday that Paris would “evidently” not use nuclear weapons in response to a Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine.

“France has a nuclear doctrine, that is based on the vital interests of the country and which are clearly defined. These would not be at stake if there was a nuclear ballistic attack in Ukraine or in the region,” the French president said.

The French president has since been criticized for breaking the usage of remaining vague on the topic of nuclear dissuasion, at a time when Russian leader Vladimir Putin has made nuclear threats.

“[Nuclear] dissuasion’s credibility relies on not saying anything about what we would have to do,” former French President François Hollande said on FranceInfo radio, adding one needed to “say as little as possible and be prepared to do as much as possible.”

As the leader of the EU’s only nuclear power, Macron’s comments that he would not respond to a nuclear attack in Ukraine “or in the region” are unlikely to reassure EU member states belonging to NATO such as Poland, Romania or Slovakia. Article 5 of the NATO treaty states that members should come to the defense of other members in case of attack.

Putin raised the specter of a nuclear war in a major escalation last month, threatening to use “all weapon resources” at his disposal to win.

While the U.S. has remained vague on how it would respond to a Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine, it has however made it clear that Russia would face a response of conventional forces on a massive scale.

Bruno Tertrais, deputy director for the think tank Foundation for Strategic Research, questioned Macron’s “curious” decision to spell out the limits of France nuclear doctrine, and the timing of the statement.

“In my opinion, the right answer should have been: I won’t play this game … and anyway Mr. Putin must be aware that he would lose,” he tweeted.

During the interview on Wednesday, the French president said the less dissuasion was discussed “the better,” but he then went on to clarify what would happen in case of an attack against Ukraine. Asked by the France 2 journalist if France would refrain from deploying nuclear bombs in response to a Russian nuclear attack on Ukrainian soil, Macron said “evidently.”

“When I heard him speak, I almost fell of my chair,” said the conservative MP Jean-Louis Thiériot, vice president of the National Assembly’s armed forces committee.
“It’s a political mistake. One of the principles of nuclear dissuasion is that there’s an uncertainty as to what is considered a vital interest,” he said.

Thiériot believes Macron’s message may have been meant for voters at home, who are worried about France’s military support for Ukraine and the possibility of a nuclear war.

The French president did not make any statements on what France’s conventional response might be if Russia used nuclear weapons. On Monday, the G7 countries released a statement that warned that Russia would face “grave consequences” if it did.

The comments risk further undermining France’s push for strategic autonomy and a Europe that defends itself and does not rely solely on the U.S. for protection.
_Lili Bayer and Stuart Lau contributed reporting._









Macron under fire for saying France wouldn’t respond in kind if Russia launched nuclear attack on Ukraine


French president says Paris would not trigger a nuclear response if Russia launched such a strike ‘in Ukraine or in the region.’




www.politico.eu


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583336350249807872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582435927602778112

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583336800663130112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583334338489614336

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Well, the EU pursed a more friendly posture towards Iran unlike the US. sanctions have psycho effects. As said, no more niceties, the EU places you on enemy list.


and we effectively were there already .
what's the point of nice talks when action wise eu was exactly ,Like USA



Viet said:


> Stop trolling!
> 
> 
> You mean when China, India buy cheap oil = support Russia? Well then be it.
> The third world suffers hunger and starvation because Russia blockade foods and fertilizer I don’t think they are happy.


didn't it some how related on financial transaction sanctions ?


----------



## Viet

Oh what happened?
Russia troops at Kherson really retreating from the western bench of Knipr river.
I thought Putin wanted them to stay fighting until the last man.






Dieses Foto veröffentlichte Makar Teplinskiy auf seinem Profil bei VKontakte.
(Foto: VKontakte/ Makar Teplinskiy)




Auch das britische Verteidigungsministerium berichtet über die Fährverbindung zwischen Kosazke und Nowa Kachowka.
(Foto: Britisches Verteidigungsministerium)


----------



## kingQamaR

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> LOL French are in no mood to support the NATO against Russia.
> 
> 
> Macron under fire for saying France wouldn’t respond in kind if Russia launched nuclear attack on Ukraine​French president says Paris would not trigger a nuclear response if Russia launched such a strike ‘in Ukraine or in the region.’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> French President Emmanuel Macron said on Wednesday that Paris would “evidently” not use nuclear weapons in response | Sean Gallup/Getty Images
> 
> BY CLEA CAULCUTT
> OCTOBER 13, 2022 6:22 PM
> 
> PARIS – Emmanuel Macron’s recent comments on the French response in case of a Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine have drawn fire from observers and political opponents at home.
> 
> During an interview with French TV channel France 2, the French president said on Wednesday that Paris would “evidently” not use nuclear weapons in response to a Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine.
> 
> “France has a nuclear doctrine, that is based on the vital interests of the country and which are clearly defined. These would not be at stake if there was a nuclear ballistic attack in Ukraine or in the region,” the French president said.
> 
> The French president has since been criticized for breaking the usage of remaining vague on the topic of nuclear dissuasion, at a time when Russian leader Vladimir Putin has made nuclear threats.
> 
> “[Nuclear] dissuasion’s credibility relies on not saying anything about what we would have to do,” former French President François Hollande said on FranceInfo radio, adding one needed to “say as little as possible and be prepared to do as much as possible.”
> 
> As the leader of the EU’s only nuclear power, Macron’s comments that he would not respond to a nuclear attack in Ukraine “or in the region” are unlikely to reassure EU member states belonging to NATO such as Poland, Romania or Slovakia. Article 5 of the NATO treaty states that members should come to the defense of other members in case of attack.
> 
> Putin raised the specter of a nuclear war in a major escalation last month, threatening to use “all weapon resources” at his disposal to win.
> 
> While the U.S. has remained vague on how it would respond to a Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine, it has however made it clear that Russia would face a response of conventional forces on a massive scale.
> 
> Bruno Tertrais, deputy director for the think tank Foundation for Strategic Research, questioned Macron’s “curious” decision to spell out the limits of France nuclear doctrine, and the timing of the statement.
> 
> “In my opinion, the right answer should have been: I won’t play this game … and anyway Mr. Putin must be aware that he would lose,” he tweeted.
> 
> During the interview on Wednesday, the French president said the less dissuasion was discussed “the better,” but he then went on to clarify what would happen in case of an attack against Ukraine. Asked by the France 2 journalist if France would refrain from deploying nuclear bombs in response to a Russian nuclear attack on Ukrainian soil, Macron said “evidently.”
> 
> “When I heard him speak, I almost fell of my chair,” said the conservative MP Jean-Louis Thiériot, vice president of the National Assembly’s armed forces committee.
> “It’s a political mistake. One of the principles of nuclear dissuasion is that there’s an uncertainty as to what is considered a vital interest,” he said.
> 
> Thiériot believes Macron’s message may have been meant for voters at home, who are worried about France’s military support for Ukraine and the possibility of a nuclear war.
> 
> The French president did not make any statements on what France’s conventional response might be if Russia used nuclear weapons. On Monday, the G7 countries released a statement that warned that Russia would face “grave consequences” if it did.
> 
> The comments risk further undermining France’s push for strategic autonomy and a Europe that defends itself and does not rely solely on the U.S. for protection.
> _Lili Bayer and Stuart Lau contributed reporting._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Macron under fire for saying France wouldn’t respond in kind if Russia launched nuclear attack on Ukraine
> 
> 
> French president says Paris would not trigger a nuclear response if Russia launched such a strike ‘in Ukraine or in the region.’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu



So he's saying that if a NATO country (other than France) is attacked, France would not help defend it because France won't have been directly attacked. I think France should be booted out of NATO.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Kornet is deadly to personnel and fortification because of thermobaric warhead. Also, vehicle launched Kornet has auto tracking which is fire and forget.


thermobaric warhead is not something that kornet only have , a TOW missile also can be available in thermobaric variation .
by the way believe me , you want use one with HEAT warhead against tanks , thermobarric variation have other uses but never against tanks or armored vehicle, against personnel , you can use frag warhead


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It looks like GOP wins House. No more money for Zelensky.




The deep state has its organs in both parties. So unless Trump's MAGA candidates win, I don't see much change to the current aggressive policy against Russia. Remember also, unless new senators are elected from the MAGA camp, it is basically Biden and the Senate that will drive this policy. So whatever the House of Representatives decide, that would still have to be cleared through the Senate and then the Executive (Biden administration) branch.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583049697618321409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582255042291122176

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583342628695052288

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## Reashot Xigwin

Well that happened earlier

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583336342032826368
Unlimited Corruption! 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582395690629890049

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> and we effectively were there already .
> what's the point of nice talks when action wise eu was exactly ,Like USA
> 
> 
> didn't it some how related on financial transaction sanctions ?


As said the EU treated Iran much nicer than should be in contrast to the US. No more.
I don’t understand Iran intentions why you jumping in a war in Ukraine?
China supports Russia because they can buy cheap gas with discount. The deeper Russia slips into disaster the cheaper everything they can buy from Russia. That’s ok from rational standpoint.
Iran has gas. You don’t need cheaper gas from Russia.

The only explanation is Iran jumping in because of religious, racial or other motives. The Mullahs hate the US too much that they hate Ukraine.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583353630048280576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583369541610242049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583147614958399488

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> As said the EU treated Iran much nicer than should be in contrast to the US. No more.


talked much nicer ,but when it come to action , please show me how Europe acted nicer ?


Viet said:


> I don’t understand Iran intentions why you jumping in a war in Ukraine?





Viet said:


> China supports Russia because they can buy cheap gas with discount. The deeper Russia slips into disaster the cheaper everything they can buy from Russia. That’s ok from rational standpoint.



Russia must not get defeated , the war must continue , the best result is stalemate , NATO must be occupied some where else away from middle-east where batter than Europe itself?, turkey is enough if nato go nearer to use , the next step will be Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaiejan , we don't like be sourounded by NATO . you can take your pick



Viet said:


> Iran has gas. You don’t need cheaper gas from Russia.
> 
> The only explanation is Iran jumping in because of religious, racial or other motives. The Mullahs hate the US too much that they hate Ukraine.


what religious has here , Russia is orthodox , Ukraine is orthodox ?
Racial , come on what the difference is between Ukrainian and Russian as far as we are concerned, nil.
Mullah hate the us ao they hate Ukraine again wrong on that mullah only care about themselves , they don't hate USA


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583368687217971201


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> talked much nicer ,but when it come to action , please show me how Europe acted nicer ?
> 
> 
> 
> Russia must not get defeated , the war must continue , the best result is stalemate , NATO must be occupied some where else away from middle-east where batter than Europe itself?, turkey is enough if nato go nearer to use , the next step will be Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaiejan , we don't like be sourounded by NATO . you can take your pick
> 
> 
> what religious has here , Russia is orthodox , Ukraine is orthodox ?
> Racial , come on what the difference is between Ukrainian and Russian as far as we are concerned, nil.
> Mullah hate the us ao they hate Ukraine again wrong on that mullah only care about themselves , they don't hate USA


As said I don’t have other explanation why Iran now jumps into other people’s war.

To keep NATO busy with wars around Iran? That’s why you participate the war?

Certainly it’s difficult to impossible to discuss strategic matters with religious nuts.

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## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> As said I don’t have other explanation why Iran now jumps into other people’s war.
> 
> To keep NATO busy with wars around Iran? That’s why you participate the war?
> 
> Certainly it’s difficult to impossible to discuss strategic matters with religious nuts.


Well he is now using geopolitical reasons to be fair.

Nato expanding closer to Iran. Nato having a LOT of power freed when russia collapses causes fear that its eye might fall on the Mullahs.

However..i believe that these drones/rockets that target civilian infrastructure will not have the desired strategic impact. They will not change the war, and instead will be what place Natos eyes firmly on iran, and causing a huge relations hit with europe and other countries.

And giving israel/usa free testing grounds to develop better counter material/strategies against Irans weapons.

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## Vergennes

More and more stories about mobilized who died few days after being drafted are emerging.














__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583151583742681088


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> As said I don’t have other explanation why Iran now jumps into other people’s war.
> 
> To keep NATO busy with wars around Iran? That’s why you participate the war?
> 
> Certainly it’s difficult to impossible to discuss strategic matters with religious nuts.


selling weapons is not jump into other people s war . its what USA and Europe did for centuries , how when we start do that suddenly it become immoral and bad

we didn't participate and that was not around its away . the war benefit us , how if a war benefit you guys you are allowed to fan the fire and we are not allowed to sell some low tech useless flying moped that according to a certain person more than 95% of them are shot down ?


and again wonder , what is so religious about iranian decision . recall somebody in usa called their attack on middle east as a crusade , don't recall we ever called our sale of some low tech weapon to russia as Jihad , show which people are religious nuts

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> More and more stories about mobilized who died few days after being drafted are emerging.


alcohol deprivation can be very nasty , if its not controlled and done under intense medical supervision



ZeGerman said:


> However..i believe that these drones/rockets that target civilian infrastructure will not have the desired strategic impact. They will not change the war, and instead will be what place Natos eyes firmly on iran, and causing a huge relations hit with europe and other countries.


we believe this war can be extended enough and we were in cross hair for several years , the more it take it will become harder to attack us , two years ago our airdefence range was 75km at most and we ghad no early warning system , right now its 300+km we have 3000km early warning radar and range if our precision missile increased from 300km to 2000+km and only because we put a 2ton warhead on the missile instead of a 1 ton frag or thermobarric warhead . just think whar a detterant it can be and our artillery rockets from 60-70km to 300km our drone from under 1000km to 2500+km 
, this years we managed to equip our ships with vls ,just think if we manage to keep the ones who may eye attacking iran in 3-4 year busy some place else , we will fix the problem with our air force . till two years ago we imported sensors for our weapon now we produce those sensors in house
then tell me why we must not do that. won't it be madness if we don't buy times

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## zartosht

Western propaganda vs reality:

- Russians are all running away from conscription!!! Ukies fighting to the last man!!!!

Reality: 10million + ukies ran to europe. Millions of ukies joined the Russian federation and ukraine lost faaaaaaaar more military age men

-Russian conscripts are armed with ww2 guns tampons and airsoft gear

Reality: the average fighting soldier is observed with regular weaponry killing ukies. 

-Russians dont want to fight for putin!!!

Reality: putin has close to 80% approval rating. The Russian people are overwhelmingly behind him and if anything, they are criticizing him for being too soft

- Russian soldiers are all drunks, kids, dumbasses and orca getting picked off the street as cannon fodder. While the ukies are all rambos, supermen and can do absolutely. No wrong

Reality: ukraine is on its desperate 9th? Roundof call ups. While Russia was fighting with contract soldiers. And has now called up 300k of military trained men who are on average going to be higher quality then whatever pool is left from the ukies to draft from

-Russia is losing! Ukies are beating Russia! They will be in moscow by this rate!!

Reality: this js natos version of the 1917 last ditch german offensive of ww1. The germans went for an all out attack to try and end the war before the US could fully mobilize. On average 10k soldiers a day were enterring the battle then, and it was a race against the clock. Exact same scenario here. 
Also stoltenberg is near tears saying russia cant wint. Cause thats how someone whos winning acts.. right?

Iranian weapons suck! Toys that can easily be taken out

Reality: a cheap Iranian drone is humiliating the beat air defenses nato can put in the heart of europe. They are theowing tantrums like lil children, and are soiling themselves at the thought of larger drones, or pinpoint accurAte Iranian missiles delivering 500kg of death at mach. 4-5 speeds on ukie/nato heads. 

-Europe has enough gas in its reserves who needs russia?

It wil be an absolute miracle if europe survives this winter without cutting off power. And god help them next year

-the world supports ukies. Russia alone!!

Reality puppets from small coubtries who cant weather western economic warfare/bullying are forced to vote but Nato is actually shocked by how little the people of the world or even large countries support them. Nobody buys natos crap anymore. Only the weak who cannot withstand western bullying are forced to get in line. Nobody likes a bully, thats why everyone is enjoying western downfall/humiliation 

I could go on and on debunking western propaganda shit of this war.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583407163393077248
How typical. Gets beaten by the Ukrainians,call it a war with NATO. They are in fact losing against our surplus. A real war with NATO Russia would be pulverized in the very first hours and that even without nuclear weapons.

50K Russians killed. How many NATO killed ? 0.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583371516594786304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583346435407286272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583346441589645312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583346450997850114

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## Lehrasap

khansaheeb said:


> Who are you kidding, 10 Million Ukrainians ran across European borders.


ٰIt happened only initially when it was feared that Kiev was going to fall. 
Nevertheless, the reality of today is this that Russians are running away and leaving Russia.
Ukrainians are showing much more patriotism than Russians at the moment. Anyone who denies it, he is a fool.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583395191951876096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583363865236340736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583390496138743808

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583413406073204737
Life going on after Russian drunkards were thrown out.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainian tanks and APCs getting wiped out in the Kherson front. These guys are sending their armored vehicles in the open without an air cover. Unbelievable! 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583388052273082368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583380936720142337

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583407163393077248
> How typical. Gets beaten by the Ukrainians,call it a war with NATO. They are in fact losing against our surplus. A real war with NATO Russia would be pulverized in the very first hours and that even without nuclear weapons.
> 
> 50K Russians killed. How many NATO killed ? 0.




How many NATO's cannon fodder (aka Ukrainians) killed? Over 100,000.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How many NATO's cannon fodder (aka Ukrainians) killed? Over 100,000.



Make it 1 million.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If you think 42 million Ukrainians can fight 146 million Russians you have another thing coming.


32 million , 10 million Ukrainian are refugees in europe

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## F-22Raptor

U.S. Sees Opportunity for Ukraine to Capitalize on Russian Weakness​

WASHINGTON — The Ukrainian military has a window of opportunity to make gains against Russia’s army over the next six weeks, according to American intelligence assessments, if it can continue its push in the south and the northeast before muddy ground and cloud cover force the opposing armies to pause and regroup.

American officials say there is little chance of a widespread collapse in Russian forces that would allow Ukraine to take another huge swath of territory, similar to what it claimed last month. But individual Russian units could break in the face of sustained Ukrainian pressure, allowing Kyiv’s army to continue retaking towns in the Donbas and potentially seize the city of Kherson, a major prize in the war.









U.S. Sees Opportunity for Ukraine to Capitalize on Russian Weakness


The next six weeks, before fall mud spreads, could allow Ukraine’s military to press forward in the Donbas and potentially retake Kherson, American officials said. But Russia may not be deterred.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Han Patriot

Let me get this straight, 1 attack from Russia and 40% of Ukraine is blackout. Wtf had the Russians been thinking, they should have fck Ukraine up day 1, they are no more your brethren when they sold their soul to the cabal. Just destroy Ukraine already, the country is beyond salvation.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583377492215144448


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Pieces of self-destructed IRIS-T missile after it failed to shoot down Shaheed -136 drone or Calipre cruise missile. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583368322904576007

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583434319959576576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583365320341082113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583382163696758785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583371516594786304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583368993829593088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583361845582516224

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583432002773975044

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583354137705840640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583435043909021698

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583429805306916864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583423375611133953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583413637288689667

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583082888031240192

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583361705995747328

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583401708235141120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583427955698831360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583431340716093441

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583435517529841665

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Well he is now using geopolitical reasons to be fair.
> 
> Nato expanding closer to Iran. Nato having a LOT of power freed when russia collapses causes fear that its eye might fall on the Mullahs.
> 
> However..i believe that these drones/rockets that target civilian infrastructure will not have the desired strategic impact. They will not change the war, and instead will be what place Natos eyes firmly on iran, and causing a huge relations hit with europe and other countries.
> 
> And giving israel/usa free testing grounds to develop better counter material/strategies against Irans weapons.


Iran could normalize the relationship to the west. They could sell oil and gas to the west. They could do normal trades, investments with the west. But No, they rather collude with Russia and go down the drains together.

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## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> Let me get this straight, 1 attack from Russia and 40% of Ukraine is blackout. Wtf had the Russians been thinking, they should have fck Ukraine up day 1, they are no more your brethren when they sold their soul to the cabal. Just destroy Ukraine already, the country is beyond salvation.


Putin couldnt justify an attack like that 8 months ago. We all knew the truth, and that includes the majority of the russian population. The russian propaganda machine may have convinced some in Russia that the ukrainian government were “nazies”. But the propaganda narrative didnt include the entire ukrainian population - they were infact russians waiting to be liberated, remember? Wouldve been really strange liberating them by total destruction.

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## Han Patriot

MeFishToo said:


> Putin couldnt justify an attack like that 8 months ago. We all knew the truth, and that includes the majority of the russian population. The russian propaganda machine may have convinced some in Russia that the ukrainian government were “nazies”. But the propaganda narrative didnt include the entire ukrainian population - they were infact russians waiting to be liberated, remember? Wouldve been really strange liberating them by total destruction.


What you mean justify, he was fighting the war half heartedly. That was the biggest mistake the Ukrainian elites are not interested in remaining neutral and NATO have no intention of halting their expansion. This is a do or die situation, Russia must fight this war. I was amazed how easily the Ukrainian power supply could have been destroyed, and they only do it now? That's the stupidest decision ever, the Ukrainians elites had been bribed, they don't regard Russians as a brother anymore, they want greenbacks and that Jew is willing to sell his soul to the devil. This must be the most painful thing the US can do to Russia, making them kill their own brethren country. Good play US, good play. Ferment hatred and division, good ole CIA play book.

Anyway a Russia not in NATO is good for the Han nation. Russia still owes us our land in Siberia, we will wait, we will wait. We waited 40 years to bide our time and build our strength, we bite our tongue and gnash our teeth when US openly step on our toes. Another 10 years till the fleet is complete, another 10.years of patience and hard work. XI said this chance only comes once in a century.

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## _Nabil_

Spain, Netherlands, Poland, and now France


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583449562462576640


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## _Nabil_

Finally a such title was released, tbh, I was expecting a higher number like 50-70 😂🤣

_








10 Iranians killed in Ukrainian strikes - report


The report comes as American and Ukrainian officials warn that Iranians are training Russians to use Iranian drones in Crimea.




m.jpost.com




_

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Iran could normalize the relationship to the west. They could sell oil and gas to the west. They could do normal trades, investments with the west. But No, they rather collude with Russia and go down the drains together.


strategically forgetting some facts 
there was a small problem and that was USA that could not guarantee they honor the agreement they sign and the rest of the parties that could not agree on compensating Iran if the leaving jcpoa fiasco happen again .
what you think , all the obligation of iran need spending money . its foolishness that we spend money on an agreement that the other party will live as soon as next president come to office without any compensation


----------



## ziaulislam

Viet said:


> Well, the EU pursed a more friendly posture towards Iran unlike the US. sanctions have psycho effects. As said, no more niceties, the EU places you on enemy list.


Where did that got Iran ?
No where 

Europe isn't gas self sufficient..USA is


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

kingQamaR said:


> So he's saying that if a NATO country (other than France) is attacked, France would not help defend it because France won't have been directly attacked. I think France should be booted out of NATO.



I think France is preparing to leave NATO.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583335870274605056


----------



## Hack-Hook

_Nabil_ said:


> Spain, Netherlands, Poland, and now France
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583449562462576640


it seems the only country that achieved its obligation on reducing emission and still adhere to those obligation and in fact reduced those emission far more than it was supposed to do is pariah , bad , evil , puppy killer Iran that reduced 60% of Greenhouse Gases.
sometimes i wonder why we care at all .
the same is the story of caspian sea , we are the only one that release fishes in caspian sea to keep its ecosystem stable and prevent the extinction of its unique fishes , some others just release poisons and sewage there


----------



## PakFactor

Viet said:


> Iran could normalize the relationship to the west. They could sell oil and gas to the west. They could do normal trades, investments with the west. But No, they rather collude with Russia and go down the drains together.



The West pussy-foots quite a lot in its relations; they'll approve something and then give another list of demands, and the cycle continues. Even the blind, without seeing, wouldn't try to make a second deal with the West. Iran having nuclear weapons isn't a bad idea. Every nation, race, and religion has a right to self-defense and determination, no matter how they achieve it. Its nukes protect North Korea from ravaging like Iraq and will afford Iran the same never let your sovereign rights be determined on a piece of paper from the West.


----------



## Hack-Hook

_Nabil_ said:


> Finally a such title was released, tbh, I was expecting a higher number like 50-70 😂🤣
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10 Iranians killed in Ukrainian strikes - report
> 
> 
> The report comes as American and Ukrainian officials warn that Iranians are training Russians to use Iranian drones in Crimea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


well it seems we managed to protect our personnel better this time , the last time they claimed 20 iranian instructor and 4 russian operator








The Armed Forces of Ukraine destroyed the control and training center for Iranian drone operators — SUNDRIES


The Ukrainian military struck the control and training center for Iranian drone operators, which was located in the village of Chulakivka, Kherson region.




sundries.com.ua


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> Ukraine has great engineering brains.
> 
> They no need to manufacture pieces, just buy outside and assemble like the Iranian devils do.
> 
> A similar crappy drone but instead gnss guidance, sound guidance to follow and destroy shaheds-136.
> 
> The key to stop Iranian flying pistachios is doing another anti-system with the same or less price.
> 
> If you use high technology expensive pieces, then it's useless, because Shaheds pistachios are cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> "Digital Signal Processors" is a wide word too, so you must be more specific.
> 
> A USB sound card of 3 EUR is technically a "Digital Signal Processor" and you, of course, can't sanction it, because they are everywhere.
> 
> Every dedicated hardware processing task can be virtualized by software in a general purpose processor, everything, but it's more expensive and slower.


You cannot virtualize a high-speed 12-bit Analogue to Digital converter with a general purpose processor.


----------



## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> it seems the only country that achieved its obligation on reducing emission and still adhere to those obligation and in fact reduced those emission far more than it was supposed to do is pariah , bad , evil , puppy killer Iran that reduced 60% of Greenhouse Gases.
> sometimes i wonder why we care at all .
> the same is the story of caspian sea , we are the only one that release fishes in caspian sea to keep its ecosystem stable and prevent the extinction of its unique fishes , some others just release poisons and sewage there








Energy Charter Treaty: Calls to ditch 'ecocide treaty' after failed reform efforts - Business & Human Rights Resource Centre







www.business-humanrights.org





Your both completely off. 
The reason they quit is because they want to reduce fossil fuel, but this treaty risks having to pay tens of billions to oil companies for their “missed investments/profits”. **** that. 










2030 Climate Target Plan


The Commission’s proposal to cut greenhouse gas emissions by at least 55% by 2030




climate.ec.europa.eu


----------



## Shawnee

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 886518
> 
> 
> Stay tuned for this headline tomorrow:
> 
> *150 Iranian drone instructors killed in Kherson after Himars strike.*



*Finally they did it.

Headline title:

Iranian instructors killed in Kherson.*

As a proof they can just publish satellite pictures of a few destroyed buildings. That is enough for average audience to believe the news.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> selling weapons is not jump into other people s war . its what USA and Europe did for centuries , how when we start do that suddenly it become immoral and bad



Iran does have the right to sell weapons to Russia.
That however means that Iran is not a neutral country any longer.



https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/law8_final.pdf








That point of view will not save Iran from the repercussions.
Iranians supporting Irans military or military production can now be legally killed by Ukrainans all over the world as they are valid military targets.
Ukraina can also legally fire ballistic missiles at Iran. That they may not have such missiles, and that Iran might replynis besides the point.

NATO is of course in the same situation, but Russia is carefully avoiding to attack NATO as they are non-belligerent, and Russia wishes they remain non-belligerent.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583371516594786304
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583346435407286272
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583346441589645312
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583346450997850114


Good luck getting hold of the US electronics components in such volumes.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583485984532213761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583480530359578624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583472095748853760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583448893844774914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583474170695778304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583442130605084673

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## Viet

ziaulislam said:


> Where did that got Iran ?
> No where
> 
> Europe isn't gas self sufficient..USA is


Has Japan gas? While Japan is rich Russia is poor? Gas is overrated. Gas makes you lazy. I waiting Japan to invent a car that can run on water fuel. About Iran, the mullah just are fooled by Putin. Russian traders flood markets in Asia with cheaper gas and oil than Iran can hardly sell anything to Asia.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583479888094195713


Viet said:


> Has Japan gas? While Japan is rich Russia is poor?



Define rich poor. Russia has higher standard of living compared to Japan because of socialism.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583483275468713984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583447268912664576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583439954465943552

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Good luck getting hold of the US electronics components in such volumes.



US hardly makes electronics. 99% of electronics sold in the US are made in China.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583479888094195713
> 
> 
> Define rich poor. Russia has higher standard of living compared to Japan because of socialism.


What socialism? Putin’s villa in Russia has hundreds of chambers, his concubine has a villa in the Swiss. I bet 99.999 percent russians don’t have that privilege.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583390906795061248


Viet said:


> What socialism? Putin’s concubine has a villa in the Swiss. I bet 99.99 percent russians don’t have that privilege.



All major industries in Russia are state owned. This is also true in China.

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## Viet

Oh that’s ugly!
The US deliver Himars with M30A1 ammo.
Large areas can be bombed by small steel balls and fragments.









__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575843498217144321

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583404501096366085

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1


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## Viet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580257159769571328


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583385844005511168

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583451315770122241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583458272752717824

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## jhungary



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Shawnee

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Iran does have the right to sell weapons to Russia.
> That however means that Iran is not a neutral country any longer.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/law8_final.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 888328
> 
> That point of view will not save Iran from the repercussions.
> Iranians supporting Irans military or military production can now be legally killed by Ukrainans all over the world as they are valid military targets.
> Ukraina can also legally fire ballistic missiles at Iran. That they may not have such missiles, and that Iran might replynis besides the point.
> 
> NATO is of course in the same situation, but Russia is carefully avoiding to attack NATO as they are non-belligerent, and Russia wishes they remain non-belligerent.
> 
> 
> Good luck getting hold of the US electronics components in such volumes.



Based on your reasoning, Yemenis can kill Americans with drones because US sells weapons to KSA.

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## ziaulislam

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Iran does have the right to sell weapons to Russia.
> That however means that Iran is not a neutral country any longer.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/law8_final.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 888328
> 
> That point of view will not save Iran from the repercussions.
> Iranians supporting Irans military or military production can now be legally killed by Ukrainans all over the world as they are valid military targets.
> Ukraina can also legally fire ballistic missiles at Iran. That they may not have such missiles, and that Iran might replynis besides the point.
> 
> NATO is of course in the same situation, but Russia is carefully avoiding to attack NATO as they are non-belligerent, and Russia wishes they remain non-belligerent.
> 
> 
> Good luck getting hold of the US electronics components in such volumes.


Sweden sells bofor guns to India that has killed Pakistani civilians at line of control inside Pakistan.

Is Pakistan now allowed to fire blastic missiles towards Sweden?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583498187125293060

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583494919116554248


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583340137177444352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583500317458829314

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1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583500920733589523

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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583460539745046529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583429344604848128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583455492126306304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583434458002493442

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## A.P. Richelieu

Shawnee said:


> Based on your reasoning, Yemenis can kill Americans with drones because US sells weapons to KSA.


Irani stooges does not care if they are legal or not.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583515608234086400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583481595335708673

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## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> Sweden sells bofor guns to India that has killed Pakistani civilians at line of control inside Pakistan.
> 
> Is Pakistan now allowed to fire blastic missiles towards Sweden?


The rule of neutrality is only applicable if there is a war going on.
Weapons sold before a war starts does not affect the status of the country selling the weapons.

Does Pakistan consider itself to be at war with India? Ukraine is at war with Russia.

Firing missiles at a country selling arms of course is an escalation, and due to Russias recent clusterfuck, Pakistan would find itself to be in war with the United States and other NATO nations. Ukraine might care less about what Iran will do.

Just because you can do a stupid thing, you are not forced to do it.
Now lets return to the Ukrainan War…


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583395289637220352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583409329214214144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583401741252710400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583378051596898304

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583523200410865666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583476259476029440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583292865220071425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583130397231104000

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583526172834824192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583381579384049664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583529266628943872

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ziaulislam

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The rule of neutrality is only applicable if there is a war going on.
> Weapons sold before a war starts does not affect the status of the country selling the weapons.
> 
> Does Pakistan consider itself to be at war with India? Ukraine is at war with Russia.
> 
> Firing missiles at a country selling arms of course is an escalation, and due to Russias recent clusterfuck, Pakistan would find itself to be in war with the United States and other NATO nations. Ukraine might care less about what Iran will do.
> 
> Just because you can do a stupid thing, you are not forced to do it.
> Now lets return to the Ukrainan War…


There was active war between Pakistan and India in 1984 when guns were sold

All through out the thread you have made weird claims.

Sure we want to talk about Russian Ukraine war

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## The SC




----------



## _Nabil_

Macron vient juste de réaliser qu'il est la dindon de la farce 😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583497886897434624


----------



## MeFishToo

Han Patriot said:


> What you mean justify, he was fighting the war half heartedly. That was the biggest mistake the Ukrainian elites are not interested in remaining neutral and NATO have no intention of halting their expansion. This is a do or die situation, Russia must fight this war. I was amazed how easily the Ukrainian power supply could have been destroyed, and they only do it now? That's the stupidest decision ever, the Ukrainians elites had been bribed, they don't regard Russians as a brother anymore, they want greenbacks and that Jew is willing to sell his soul to the devil. This must be the most painful thing the US can do to Russia, making them kill their own brethren country. Good play US, good play. Ferment hatred and division, good ole CIA play book.
> 
> Anyway a Russia not in NATO is good for the Han nation. Russia still owes us our land in Siberia, we will wait, we will wait. We waited 40 years to bide our time and build our strength, we bite our tongue and gnash our teeth when US openly step on our toes. Another 10 years till the fleet is complete, another 10.years of patience and hard work. XI said this chance only comes once in a century.


Im sorry. Your reply sounds like a printout from an Alex Jones broadcast. 
The only reason NATO is labelled a threat by Putin is because ukrainian NATO membership would deny Russia any possible future annexation of ukrainian territory. The russian propaganda narrative is total bullshit. NATO is no threat to russian _territory_ at all.
Russia doesnt consider Ukraine a brother nation. They wanted another vassal state like Belarus an the other CSTO nations used to be. To bad this russian adventure made it clear to the world the king is naked.
Good luck with your fleet and imperial ambitions. Now go join the Peoples Liberation Army.

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## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583523200410865666

Exactly 3 weeks, since arrival of Kamikaze drones.

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## Viet

This women can stop the war.

Alina Kabajewa

Putin’s concubine

Too bad

US, EU put her on sanctions list.


----------



## The SC



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## zectech

MeFishToo said:


> Im sorry. Your reply sounds like a printout from an Alex Jones broadcast.
> The only reason NATO is labelled a threat by Putin is because ukrainian NATO membership would deny Russia any possible future annexation of ukrainian territory. The russian propaganda narrative is total bullshit. NATO is no threat to russian _territory_ at all.
> Russia doesnt consider Ukraine a brother nation. They wanted another vassal state like Belarus an the other CSTO nations used to be. To bad this russian adventure made it clear to the world the king is naked.
> Good luck with your fleet and imperial ambitions. Now go join the Peoples Liberation Army.


----------



## zectech

Viet said:


> This women can stop the war.
> 
> Alina Kabajewa
> 
> Putin’s concubine
> 
> Too bad
> 
> US, EU put her on sanctions list.
> 
> 
> View attachment 888335



The war has been planned by those that wanted to destroy the European Community since the 1950s. And before the US WASPs hated China, these WASP hated the European Catholics in Europe and in America.

Before the Yellow Peril, there was the Catholic Peril









American Freedom and Catholic Power - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





WASPs chimping out over White European Catholics replacing WASPs and controlling the economic, political and social West. This internal coup by the rise of Catholic influence is more dangerous to Washington than the Soviet Union or Communist China because bad enough to Washington if a successful Chinese family move next door. Far worse is if the Catholics replace the WASPs and there are no more Anglos running the globe. With the Catholics rich and influential and the Anglos are second rate. Internal Washington planning to destroy Catholic and white European political power in Europe and the US was exposed decades ago. The Treaty of Rome was opposed by the cia and the cia deepstate that is today Trump:









The Real Deep State Is Trump


How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom




newrepublic.com





Has their pieces in in place to destroy the EU.

Merkel: Putin Wants to Destroy Europe​


https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/merkel/2022/06/07/id/1073404/



Putin is doing the plan of Trump and the Trumpers in Washington, and among the Alex Jones loonies.

Alex Jones spreads hatred of Europe. Says Europe is run by International Bankers. WEF, the UN, and other boogieman that are owned by the US cia deepstate of Trump.

Alex Jones and fellow Putinites for years have said that China is run by International Bankers, UN and is a WEF project of globalists. To demonize China. China instead of siding with Europe in the fight against the Trump plan, China sides with Trump.

_“We are (for the) first time in the history in a situation where the President of the United States (Trump) and (the) President of Russia seem to share the same view on Europe: the weaker, the better, because they think that it’s better for their own country, which is obviously not right,” Katainen, who is also the former prime minister of Finland said._









'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says


There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.




www.cnbc.com


----------



## LeGenD

@Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen 

Stay on topic in this thread or I will restrict your access in this thread.

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## zectech

Before the Yellow Peril was the entire WASP/Washington Oligarchs plotting how to stop white Catholic Europeans from taking over the US and the globe (peacefully):






The Treaty of Rome which was the founding document of the EU, was founded by these white Catholic Europeans of mostly white Catholic European nations. In the post WWII era, the new Western enemy was the Catholics, US academia saying Catholicism is basically fascism. And Catholic Adenauer shifted from denazifiation in Germany to fast development of industry, to make Germany an economic rival again. Worse Adenauer was forming a group of Catholic nations to economically rival the US. Catholics were the menace. Yet Adenauer supported NATO. And as Trump wanted to back stab the pro-US Europeans. The cia wanted to destroy the Catholic EU in its infancy with the EEC.

This war on Europe to destroy the pro-NATO EU, was planned since the 1950s.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583570599145676800

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583423580528070656

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## zectech

To the Chinese members, Catholic Americans are not citizens of the US, they are enemies of the US "that have to be kept down". Catholics are worse than 5th columnists to Anglo dominance:






The same is true with the EU, these NATO members are not allowed to surpass the US in power and influence. Putin is waging a war to destroy that Catholic organization - the EU. And the cia has known this as the enemy since the treaty of Rome.

Therefore the only conclusion is China is doing to the EU what Trump wanted to do to China - which is eliminate it. China is part of the cia plan to destroy Europe, as American Trumpers were part of the cia plot to destroy China.

Louis Wirth was working for the WASP Washington 'Government" seeking how to destroy White Catholic Europeans in the US because White Catholics globally were a threat, read more about this in "American Freedom and Catholic Power" book, a best selling book among the WASP 'elites'. White Catholics in Europe unified European nations to be an economic rival and competition to US dominance and EU politically is as greater threat to Anglo dominance.

This war is the US "government" final solution to Europe, planned since the 1950s, as documented in "US government" document after "US government" document.

So China has joined with the US/UK to destroy the ethnic groups in Europe that are enemies of the US. Remember the Americans in, Russia out and GERMANY DOWN. Germany is one of the hated ethnic groups of Europe, along with Catholic Poles, Italians, Irish. Now that Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union has cia agents in the Kremlin, there is no need to have Russia out of Europe. Russia is being used to destroy the Anglo enemy - EU.

Boris Yeltsin had entourage of ‘hundreds’ of CIA agents who instructed him how to run Russia, claims former parliamentary speaker​
he first Russian president, Boris Yeltsin, was surrounded by “hundreds” of CIA agents who told him what to do throughout his tenure as leader. That’s according to Ruslan Khasbulatov, the former chairman of Russia’s parliament.

Speaking to radio station Govorit Moskva, Khasbulatov claimed Yeltsin’s entourage was full of Americans. In 1996, he was elected to his leadership post with Washington’s help, it has been alleged, and it is still not yet known to what extent the US remained the voice in his ear throughout his presidency.

_“There must have been a hundred [CIA employees],”_ Khasbulatov said. _“They determined everything.”_ He also added that, after winning the presidential election, Yeltsin would send security officials and heads of departments to the US so the Americans could _“examine them”_ and _“give conclusions.”_

Khasbulatov’s statement comes after former Russian vice president Alexander Rutskoy told online outlet Lenta that 12 full-time employees of the CIA helped carry out the landmark Yeltsin-Gaidar market reforms, systematically dismantling the centrally planned economic system and leading the country into shock capitalism. Rutskoy also claimed that, on one significant occasion, he overheard Yeltsin speaking to a stranger with a foreign accent.

However, according to Khasbulatov, everyone knew about Rutskoy’s links to the US, and American officials even influenced the former president to replace a considerable number of his appointees.

_“On the whole, Rutskoy is absolutely right – Yeltsin was advised by foreigners,”_ he continued. _“There is no secret here, and a great number of people know about it. I don’t have any detective stories about eavesdropping, but, in general, it’s well known. Yeltsin used to confer very closely on all personnel matters with foreign representatives.”_

Yeltsin left office in 1999, but not before creating a hyper-presidential system, taking power away from a hostile parliament, and removing almost all checks and balances. This move was supported by Washington, which hoped to keep the Communist Party out of power in the newly formed Russian state.

Nowadays, Yeltsin has a mixed legacy, with many Russians believing he was a drunkard who sold the country to Western capitalists. However, abroad, he has been compared to revolutionaries such as South Africa's Nelson Mandela, Poland’s Lech Wałęsa, and Czechoslovakia’s Václav Havel, with former US president Bill Clinton even having likened him to Abraham Lincoln.



https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/

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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You cannot virtualize a high-speed 12-bit Analogue to Digital converter with a general purpose processor.


I said you can virtualize any "hardware dedicated *processing task*".

ADC is to get data from real world, you can't virtualise a sensor certainly. But once you get the data digitally, you can handle it in a general purpose processor like in any other specialised hardware would do, slower.

But every sensor that need flying pistachios 136 has his civil double-use product widely available (GNSS receiver, Inertial guidance: gyroscope and acelerometer, data link, and so on). AFAIK at least.

With sanctions, maybe the cost increase a little, it losts some warhead useful weigh load and some accuracy, but they can keep banging Ukraine even using a 100 EUR smartphone as only Shahed-136 digital hardware.

In the west military industry often they dont care about prices, and every little crappy thing has overrated costs.

Iran is doing something that we can call LowCost Warfare, and it must be fought in the same way.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583593411952594944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583595146246901760


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583515014371344385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583515014371344385

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## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> There was active war between Pakistan and India in 1984 when guns were sold
> 
> All through out the thread you have made weird claims.
> 
> Sure we want to talk about Russian Ukraine war



You make statements that are false throughout the thread.
India announced that Bofors got the order in 1986.

The rules for neutrality published by the International Red Cross are not ”weird”.
Bring Pakistan into the thread is derailing, so stop talking about Pakistan or Sweden, based on your false facts.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583448146771730434

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> I said you can virtualize any "hardware dedicated *processing task*".
> 
> ADC is to get data from real world, you can't virtualise a sensor certainly. But once you get the data digitally, you can handle it in a general purpose processor like in any other specialised hardware would do, slower.


The DSP in the drones are mixed signal chips.
You cannot replace them with just a general purpose processor, which is the point.
The use of DSP instead of a general purpose microcontroller indicates that running the algorithm slower will mean that the program will fail.
You forget about the flight controls, rudders etc. Those need analogue inputs.

Chinese companies that ship stuff to Iran risk being targetted by the US. It is known to withdraw right to use of patents for companies that ship parts to Iran.
That means that if they do not stop shipping parts that violate those patents immediately, the whole company will be sanctioned.
Why would a chinese company risk their business with the West to ship a few thousand chips to Iran. That would be bad ROI.



BHAN85 said:


> But every sensor that need flying pistachios 136 has his civil double-use product widely available (GNSS receiver, Inertial guidance: gyroscope and acelerometer, data link, and so on). AFAIK at least.
> 
> With sanctions, maybe the cost increase a little, it losts some warhead useful weigh load and some accuracy, but they can keep banging Ukraine even using a 100 EUR smartphone as only Shahed-136 digital hardware.
> 
> In the west military industry often they dont care about prices, and every little crappy thing has overrated costs.
> 
> Iran is doing something that we can call LowCost Warfare, and it must be fought in the same way.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583584116322488320

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583504530280357893

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583631455808532481


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583600681751318529


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581381393581428736


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583598098726543360
It looks like the Russians have neutralized the threat from much vaunted, GPS-guided HIMARS rockets. And it does explain the recent development where the British defense secretary rushed to Washington to share some dire warnings or perhaps desperation on his part.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583576510161485824

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583608415234174976

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583593975822569472

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583439954465943552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583637147248365569

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583637147248365569



Lancet is basically Javelin except 20 times the range.


----------



## ziaulislam

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583598098726543360
> It looks like the Russians have neutralized the threat from much vaunted, GPS-guided HIMARS rockets. And it does explain the recent development where the British defense secretary rushed to Washington to share some dire warnings or perhaps desperation on his part.


Then how would you explain the gains ukrianians are making..

Russia has been pounded bad and has been exposed how poor they are in equipment and training

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> U.S. Sees Opportunity for Ukraine to Capitalize on Russian Weakness​
> 
> WASHINGTON — The Ukrainian military has a window of opportunity to make gains against Russia’s army over the next six weeks, according to American intelligence assessments, if it can continue its push in the south and the northeast before muddy ground and cloud cover force the opposing armies to pause and regroup.
> 
> American officials say there is little chance of a widespread collapse in Russian forces that would allow Ukraine to take another huge swath of territory, similar to what it claimed last month. But individual Russian units could break in the face of sustained Ukrainian pressure, allowing Kyiv’s army to continue retaking towns in the Donbas and potentially seize the city of Kherson, a major prize in the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Sees Opportunity for Ukraine to Capitalize on Russian Weakness
> 
> 
> The next six weeks, before fall mud spreads, could allow Ukraine’s military to press forward in the Donbas and potentially retake Kherson, American officials said. But Russia may not be deterred.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


Defenses are harder to crack than an offense, it would be incredibly risky to just blindly charge into Russian Artilleries and the Ukrainian cost will be too high. All Ukraine has to is keep making the Russian pay a heavy price for the misadventure and grind the Russians down.



Viet said:


> Iran could normalize the relationship to the west. They could sell oil and gas to the west. They could do normal trades, investments with the west. But No, they rather collude with Russia and go down the drains together.


Yep just like Germany and Vietnam have gone down the drain.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ziaulislam said:


> Then how would you explain the gains ukrianians are making..
> 
> Russia has been pounded bad and has been exposed how poor they are in equipment and training



Early victories can still lose. England lost Hundred Years War despite early victories.








khansaheeb said:


> Defenses are harder to crack than an offense, it would be incredibly risky to just blindly charge into Russian Artilleries and the Ukrainian cost will be too high. All Ukraine has to is keep making the Russian pay a heavy price for the misadventure and grind the Russians down.



Time is not on Ukrainian side. Russians outnumber Ukrainians more than 3 to 1. The longer the war, the more Ukrainian attrition. Russians can replace tank losses with new tanks. Ukrainians cannot replace losses.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583404167254933504

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## aviator_fan

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If you think 42 million Ukrainians can fight 146 million Russians you have another thing coming.


The mental stupidity is back. You were gone for a while. Population has never been the determinant for military victory (no more than having trees is a way to print money which you also keep on idiotically writing about):
1. Japan 1/10th population occupied China (US defeated Japan)
2. Israel beat Arabs in conflict while outnumbered 10:1
3. European powers were small in population and (unfortunately) colonized the world

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> The mental stupidity is back. You were gone for a while. Population has never been the determinant for military victory (no more than having trees is a way to print money which you also keep on idiotically writing about):
> 1. Japan 1/10th population occupied China (US defeated Japan)
> 2. Israel beat Arabs in conflict while outnumbered 10:1
> 3. European powers were small in population and (unfortunately) colonized the world



Keeping all other factors constant, population makes a huge difference. Germany would have won WW1 and WW2 if they weren't outnumbered 2 to 1.


----------



## aviator_fan

jhungary said:


>


International airspace or not, this is not a smart move to send high value assets unprotected. Pakistan Navy lost an Atlantic MPA during peacetime.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 3 times the population. In WW2 Allies had 2 times the population of Axis and this doomed Axis.


China was occupied by Japan in WWII. Arab lands occupied by Israel. In both cases a 10-20x population advantage



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia beat Liz Truss. UK was spending too much money on Ukraine war and broke its economy.


Officially for your stupidity you are blocked so I don't have to read irrelevant material from you. She broke the economy because of arbitrary tax cuts. Ukraine was supported by Boris, her, and her successor. Not a factor....can't you just google basic facts before you post stupid sentences.

Now I never have to see the 'Russia wins because its bigger' sort of posts again

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> China was occupied by Japan in WWII. Arab lands occupied by Israel. In both cases a 10-20x population advantage



Japan had massive industrial and military hardware advantage over China in 1930s. This is not the case with Ukraine and Russia.


----------



## aviator_fan

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582990115692945408
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582985729583767552
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583053764755275778
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583048680512180224


And the world doesn't realize that somehow we the Russians are able to sell oil and overcome the settlements issue but not for wheat?


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1
> 
> Just gone back to some old cable and found this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US senators request to send to Ukraine Land-Based C-RAM Phalanx & Avenger air defense systems | Defense News July 2022 Global Security army industry | Defense Security global news industry army year 2022 | Archive News year
> 
> 
> US senators ask Secretary of Defense to send Avenger air defense systems to Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.armyrecognition.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the senate are really looking to this again, that senator who purpose this probably have a good insight on the entire situation.


He is ahead of his time. Anyways, that be great news to bring in Avengers and Vampires and maybe even the Coyotes being use to protect American bases in ME. Perhaps develop a new system that is cost effective and have in large abundance of missiles to defend the cities. This is a great learning experience for the U.S. and its allies in learning how to deal with massive loitering wave attacks.


----------



## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> intrestingly if i recall correctly there was no money for education system . more precisely there was no money to raise the wage of teachers if recall correctly somewhere around newyork


You recall this from having visited many teachers or just what the Revolutionary Guard tells you or a random youtube you tend to click.

Teachers are funded by county Govt, not federal Govt. Teachers in US do okay: they drive cars, they go on summer vacations, and they don't have to take on second jobs. They are not as highly paid as Finland but they do okay.

Students in school that come from lesser backgrounds have their school meals paid for so no school child is hungry.

Iran , i recall, teachers live below the poverty line but yet somehow manages to use satanic processors and give them to Russians.









Under the poverty line, Iran’s female teachers struggle to live


October 5 marks the World Teachers’ Day to honor the services of teachers whose efforts bear the greatest impact on




women.ncr-iran.org







Han Patriot said:


> China is not relevant? Okay hwo about the main export market for Russian energy now financing the war genius. Lol
> 
> Yes of course Chinese aircraft can't take off at night, I am very very sure about that. Lololol


I didn't say Chinese aircraft can't take off at night: I said Chinese Navy cannot conduct carrier operations at night. Emphasis was on aircraft carrier.

Yes excellent job financing the war, when China's own economy has the slowest performing economy in all of Asia for 30 years. Xi's infatuation (much like the US neo-cons) is getting China into trouble. China should be outperforming India, not falling behind Vietnam (yes I am not a China critic in case you are wondering the tone). So stop celeberating China's support of Putin war when its falling behind in its economic growth as a consequence

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## aviator_fan

khansaheeb said:


> Who are you kidding, 10 Million Ukrainians ran across European borders.
> 
> Keep living in fantasy world of Euro self importance.


Context of leaving has a Big difference; women/children/elderly escaped war. No part of mainland Russia is threatened by war but the rich left for Dubai and beyond and smart left for wherever they could get to.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> LOL French are in no mood to support the NATO against Russia.
> 
> 
> Macron under fire for saying France wouldn’t respond in kind if Russia launched nuclear attack on Ukraine​French president says Paris would not trigger a nuclear response if Russia launched such a strike ‘in Ukraine or in the region.’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> French President Emmanuel Macron said on Wednesday that Paris would “evidently” not use nuclear weapons in response | Sean Gallup/Getty Images
> 
> BY CLEA CAULCUTT
> OCTOBER 13, 2022 6:22 PM
> 
> PARIS – Emmanuel Macron’s recent comments on the French response in case of a Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine have drawn fire from observers and political opponents at home.
> 
> During an interview with French TV channel France 2, the French president said on Wednesday that Paris would “evidently” not use nuclear weapons in response to a Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine.
> 
> “France has a nuclear doctrine, that is based on the vital interests of the country and which are clearly defined. These would not be at stake if there was a nuclear ballistic attack in Ukraine or in the region,” the French president said.
> 
> The French president has since been criticized for breaking the usage of remaining vague on the topic of nuclear dissuasion, at a time when Russian leader Vladimir Putin has made nuclear threats.
> 
> “[Nuclear] dissuasion’s credibility relies on not saying anything about what we would have to do,” former French President François Hollande said on FranceInfo radio, adding one needed to “say as little as possible and be prepared to do as much as possible.”
> 
> As the leader of the EU’s only nuclear power, Macron’s comments that he would not respond to a nuclear attack in Ukraine “or in the region” are unlikely to reassure EU member states belonging to NATO such as Poland, Romania or Slovakia. Article 5 of the NATO treaty states that members should come to the defense of other members in case of attack.
> 
> Putin raised the specter of a nuclear war in a major escalation last month, threatening to use “all weapon resources” at his disposal to win.
> 
> While the U.S. has remained vague on how it would respond to a Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine, it has however made it clear that Russia would face a response of conventional forces on a massive scale.
> 
> Bruno Tertrais, deputy director for the think tank Foundation for Strategic Research, questioned Macron’s “curious” decision to spell out the limits of France nuclear doctrine, and the timing of the statement.
> 
> “In my opinion, the right answer should have been: I won’t play this game … and anyway Mr. Putin must be aware that he would lose,” he tweeted.
> 
> During the interview on Wednesday, the French president said the less dissuasion was discussed “the better,” but he then went on to clarify what would happen in case of an attack against Ukraine. Asked by the France 2 journalist if France would refrain from deploying nuclear bombs in response to a Russian nuclear attack on Ukrainian soil, Macron said “evidently.”
> 
> “When I heard him speak, I almost fell of my chair,” said the conservative MP Jean-Louis Thiériot, vice president of the National Assembly’s armed forces committee.
> “It’s a political mistake. One of the principles of nuclear dissuasion is that there’s an uncertainty as to what is considered a vital interest,” he said.
> 
> Thiériot believes Macron’s message may have been meant for voters at home, who are worried about France’s military support for Ukraine and the possibility of a nuclear war.
> 
> The French president did not make any statements on what France’s conventional response might be if Russia used nuclear weapons. On Monday, the G7 countries released a statement that warned that Russia would face “grave consequences” if it did.
> 
> The comments risk further undermining France’s push for strategic autonomy and a Europe that defends itself and does not rely solely on the U.S. for protection.
> _Lili Bayer and Stuart Lau contributed reporting._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Macron under fire for saying France wouldn’t respond in kind if Russia launched nuclear attack on Ukraine
> 
> 
> French president says Paris would not trigger a nuclear response if Russia launched such a strike ‘in Ukraine or in the region.’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu


Observers and opponents by default are going to oppose the view of the Govt. Thats how opposition works. Or have you never lived in a democratic country to know the definition of 'opposition'. Russia doesn't have opposition so opposition just escapes. In France they just oppose the view of the Govt. That means nothing till the opposition is in power.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583565363337646082


----------



## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> selling weapons is not jump into other people s war . its what USA and Europe did for centuries , how when we start do that suddenly it become immoral and bad
> 
> we didn't participate and that was not around its away . the war benefit us , how if a war benefit you guys you are allowed to fan the fire and we are not allowed to sell some low tech useless flying moped that according to a certain person more than 95% of them are shot down ?
> 
> 
> and again wonder , what is so religious about iranian decision . recall somebody in usa called their attack on middle east as a crusade , don't recall we ever called our sale of some low tech weapon to russia as Jihad , show which people are religious nuts


Centuries is too far back: Iran - Iraq war, France and Russia were both supplying Iraq. But despite that, it was a stalemate.


----------



## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> who said they are downgraded , they are downgrade compared to FGM-148 Javelin which is a lot more portable , easier to operate and is fire and forget also can penetrate more modern target .


Downgraded compared to the Javelin, sure. But the TOWs are cheaper and can't be jammed at all. And the TOW missiles have top attack mode. So it doesn't really matter how modern the tank is. Its thin on the top.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Downgraded compared to the Javelin, sure. But the TOWs are cheaper and can't be jammed at all. And the TOW missiles have top attack mode. So it doesn't really matter how modern the tank is. Its thin on the top.



TOW needs fuel to move. Where's Ukraine going to get fuel with no electricity? You cannot refine oil without electricity.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> On the other hand, as I said before, why reverse engineer when you can put bombs on existing RC/Drone, it's cheaper and quicker that way, I assume a lot of hobbyist in Ukraine can help out with that.


Well the Shahed is more military compared to the civilian RC no matter how we view them. They already using the Aliexpress drone that cost 10k to hit that oil refinery in Russia. But it didn't have a very large warhead where the Shahed does. I did read just now that the Ukrainians have developed their own long range loitering munition. Don't know if its a copy of the Shahed or their own design.


----------



## aviator_fan

zectech said:


> To the Chinese members, Catholic Americans are not citizens of the US, they are enemies of the US "that have to be kept down". Catholics are worse than 5th columnists to Anglo dominance:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same is true with the EU, these NATO members are not allowed to surpass the US in power and influence. Putin is waging a war to destroy that Catholic organization - the EU. And the cia has known this as the enemy since the treaty of Rome.
> 
> Therefore the only conclusion is China is doing to the EU what Trump wanted to do to China - which is eliminate it. China is part of the cia plan to destroy Europe, as American Trumpers were part of the cia plot to destroy China.
> 
> Louis Wirth was working for the WASP Washington 'Government" seeking how to destroy White Catholic Europeans in the US because White Catholics globally were a threat, read more about this in "American Freedom and Catholic Power" book, a best selling book among the WASP 'elites'. White Catholics in Europe unified European nations to be an economic rival and competition to US dominance and EU politically is as greater threat to Anglo dominance.
> 
> This war is the US "government" final solution to Europe, planned since the 1950s, as documented in "US government" document after "US government" document.
> 
> So China has joined with the US/UK to destroy the ethnic groups in Europe that are enemies of the US. Remember the Americans in, Russia out and GERMANY DOWN. Germany is one of the hated ethnic groups of Europe, along with Catholic Poles, Italians, Irish. Now that Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union has cia agents in the Kremlin, there is no need to have Russia out of Europe. Russia is being used to destroy the Anglo enemy - EU.
> 
> Boris Yeltsin had entourage of ‘hundreds’ of CIA agents who instructed him how to run Russia, claims former parliamentary speaker​
> he first Russian president, Boris Yeltsin, was surrounded by “hundreds” of CIA agents who told him what to do throughout his tenure as leader. That’s according to Ruslan Khasbulatov, the former chairman of Russia’s parliament.
> 
> Speaking to radio station Govorit Moskva, Khasbulatov claimed Yeltsin’s entourage was full of Americans. In 1996, he was elected to his leadership post with Washington’s help, it has been alleged, and it is still not yet known to what extent the US remained the voice in his ear throughout his presidency.
> 
> _“There must have been a hundred [CIA employees],”_ Khasbulatov said. _“They determined everything.”_ He also added that, after winning the presidential election, Yeltsin would send security officials and heads of departments to the US so the Americans could _“examine them”_ and _“give conclusions.”_
> 
> Khasbulatov’s statement comes after former Russian vice president Alexander Rutskoy told online outlet Lenta that 12 full-time employees of the CIA helped carry out the landmark Yeltsin-Gaidar market reforms, systematically dismantling the centrally planned economic system and leading the country into shock capitalism. Rutskoy also claimed that, on one significant occasion, he overheard Yeltsin speaking to a stranger with a foreign accent.
> 
> However, according to Khasbulatov, everyone knew about Rutskoy’s links to the US, and American officials even influenced the former president to replace a considerable number of his appointees.
> 
> _“On the whole, Rutskoy is absolutely right – Yeltsin was advised by foreigners,”_ he continued. _“There is no secret here, and a great number of people know about it. I don’t have any detective stories about eavesdropping, but, in general, it’s well known. Yeltsin used to confer very closely on all personnel matters with foreign representatives.”_
> 
> Yeltsin left office in 1999, but not before creating a hyper-presidential system, taking power away from a hostile parliament, and removing almost all checks and balances. This move was supported by Washington, which hoped to keep the Communist Party out of power in the newly formed Russian state.
> 
> Nowadays, Yeltsin has a mixed legacy, with many Russians believing he was a drunkard who sold the country to Western capitalists. However, abroad, he has been compared to revolutionaries such as South Africa's Nelson Mandela, Poland’s Lech Wałęsa, and Czechoslovakia’s Václav Havel, with former US president Bill Clinton even having likened him to Abraham Lincoln.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/


This is funny stuff. It amazes me you have this amount of time to look at these theories, and worse inconsiderate enough to post it here: Biden is catholic. Kennedy was catholic. WTF are you smoking these days?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Well the Shahed is more military compared to the civilian RC no matter how we view them. They already using the Aliexpress drone that cost 10k to hit that oil refinery in Russia. But it didn't have a very large warhead where the Shahed does. I did read just now that the Ukrainians have developed their own long range loitering munition. Don't know if its a copy of the Shahed or their own design.



Such drones are not particularly difficult to make. You can buy the components on Ali Express and assemble them yourself.









A swarm of armed drones attacked a Russian military base in Syria


Russia says it has now identified the launch location.




www.cnbc.com













Russia says it killed rebels behind swarm drone attack in Syria, but experts see more such strikes ahead


Moscow said it conducted a military operation to "eliminate" militants behind a coordinated drone attack on its Syrian military bases.




www.cnbc.com


----------



## aviator_fan

khansaheeb said:


> Defenses are harder to crack than an offense, it would be incredibly risky to just blindly charge into Russian Artilleries and the Ukrainian cost will be too high. All Ukraine has to is keep making the Russian pay a heavy price for the misadventure and grind the Russians down.
> 
> 
> Yep just like Germany and Vietnam have gone down the drain.


You heard about the Marshall Plan for Germany's recovery? Pls research it and see who paid for it.
US is Vietnam's largest trading partner. Both are benefiting from largesse after unfortunately being bombed to smithereens.

A blind man (Russia) is not going to be able to pull somebody else going down the drain.

So please don't use selective historical facts.

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## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Such drones are not particularly difficult to make. You can buy the components on Ali Express and assemble them yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A swarm of armed drones attacked a Russian military base in Syria
> 
> 
> Russia says it has now identified the launch location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


Yeah but its still civilian. 

Not like the Israeli Harpy or the Shahed 136.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah but its still civilian.
> 
> Not like the Israeli Harpy or the Shahed 136.



Nothing civilian about a kamikaze drone. Even if it is a fairly simply design.

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## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Nothing civilian about a kamikaze drone. Even if it is a fairly simply design.


Really? So you think you can buy a drone with about almost 100 pounds of warhead pre installed and ready to go?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583693268118024192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583690546731978752

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Well the Shahed is more military compared to the civilian RC no matter how we view them. They already using the Aliexpress drone that cost 10k to hit that oil refinery in Russia. But it didn't have a very large warhead where the Shahed does. I did read just now that the Ukrainians have developed their own long range loitering munition. Don't know if its a copy of the Shahed or their own design.


Well, as I said, this is really low-tech stuff, according to the Ukrainian who had inspected some downed drone, it's essentially a flying wing with a 2-stroke moped engine loaded with 50kg explosive, it would be more likely to be cheaper to make your own using existing RC or Drone available in the market than reverse engineer one of them. 

But then that's my own personal opinion.



Oldman1 said:


> He is ahead of his time. Anyways, that be great news to bring in Avengers and Vampires and maybe even the Coyotes being use to protect American bases in ME. Perhaps develop a new system that is cost effective and have in large abundance of missiles to defend the cities. This is a great learning experience for the U.S. and its allies in learning how to deal with massive loitering wave attacks.


Yeah, I think this was around the time when DoD or CIA first broke the news that Iran is looking to sell Drone to Russia (Not sure when is the first cable that come out but it should be right around that time) and that senator correctly predicted this is going to happen. 

But even if not, seeing how Ukrainian uses Switchblade to their maximum effect, it's not at all surprise anyone would see the Russian started to do the same.

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## khansaheeb

aviator_fan said:


> You heard about the Marshall Plan for Germany's recovery? Pls research it and see who paid for it.
> US is Vietnam's largest trading partner. Both are benefiting from largesse after unfortunately being bombed to smithereens.
> 
> A bland man (Russia) is not going to be able to pull somebody else going down the drain.
> 
> So please don't use selective historical facts.


----------



## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> International airspace or not, this is not a smart move to send high value assets unprotected. Pakistan Navy lost an Atlantic MPA during peacetime.


Think they now fly with Typhoon Escort in the area.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Yeah, I think this was around the time when DoD or CIA first broke the news that Iran is looking to sell Drone to Russia (Not sure when is the first cable that come out but it should be right around that time) and that senator correctly predicted this is going to happen.
> 
> But even if not, seeing how Ukrainian uses Switchblade to their maximum effect, it's not at all surprise anyone would see the Russian started to do the same.


I read that the Ukrainians could get the Switchblade 600 with longer range and bigger warhead but not as long range as I would like. Russia have their own loitering munition the Lancelet before the Iranians provided the Shahed 136. 






They have a new one coming out. Not sure when.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Iran does have the right to sell weapons to Russia.
> That however means that Iran is not a neutral country any longer.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/law8_final.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 888328
> 
> That point of view will not save Iran from the repercussions.
> Iranians supporting Irans military or military production can now be legally killed by Ukrainans all over the world as they are valid military targets.
> Ukraina can also legally fire ballistic missiles at Iran. That they may not have such missiles, and that Iran might replynis besides the point.
> 
> NATO is of course in the same situation, but Russia is carefully avoiding to attack NATO as they are non-belligerent, and Russia wishes they remain non-belligerent.
> 
> 
> Good luck getting hold of the US electronics components in such volumes.


that will be the case if Ukraine ask Iran for weapon and Iran say no , 
Did such thing ever happened?


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583423580528070656


Apple Watch ultra retails 999 euros. If he hates it he can give it to me.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The rule of neutrality is only applicable if there is a war going on.
> Weapons sold before a war starts does not affect the status of the country selling the weapons.


during the war you sold to KSA , you and your selective rule of neutrality
During the war eu sold to UAE.

and you're not neutral only if you refuse to sell weapon to the other party


----------



## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> during the war you sold to KSA , you and your selective rule of neutrality
> During the war eu sold to UAE.
> 
> and you're not neutral only if you refuse to sell weapon to the other party


And now iran “gets even” on those big and small satans…by acting exactly the same or worse at the expense of ukranian civilians.

Iran firmly in the north korea camp/direction. EU should and likely will adopt a much harsher stance against the mullahs.

Sad to see iran slip back further to a medieval thinking dictatorship.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

aviator_fan said:


> You recall this from having visited many teachers or just what the Revolutionary Guard tells you or a random youtube you tend to click.
> 
> Teachers are funded by county Govt, not federal Govt. Teachers in US do okay: they drive cars, they go on summer vacations, and they don't have to take on second jobs. They are not as highly paid as Finland but they do okay.
> 
> Students in school that come from lesser backgrounds have their school meals paid for so no school child is hungry.
> 
> Iran , i recall, teachers live below the poverty line but yet somehow manages to use satanic processors and give them to Russians.


if Forbes and TCF and NYTimes are aquired by IRGC








N.Y.C. Schools Are Forced to Cut Hundreds of Teachers as Funding Drops


More than three-quarters of district schools have lost enrollment. “I’ve wiped their tears and assured them the future is hopeful even as I’ve told them I’m leaving,” one teacher said.




www.nytimes.com





and NCR article from 5 years ago , the teachers wages have seen one of the highest rises in last 5-6 years compared to the rest and by the way NCR is a affiliated to some terrorist groups who have been proven to publish bullshit 
the article was truth if it was 10 years ago


----------



## Soldier35

Footage of the offensive of the Ukrainian army units in the Berislav direction on October 19 has been published. After Russian artillery strikes, the armored group of the Ukrainian army dispersed and retreated, having lost, according to preliminary data, a tank and abandoned the MT-LB transporter.






The Russian army captured an American M113 armored personnel carrier of the Ukrainian army. Why the armored personnel carrier was abandoned is unknown, it is reported that the armored vehicle is on the move and requires only light repairs.






With the help of the UR-77 installation, the Ukrainian army clears the road from mines.






An episode of the battle of Russian units in the Nikolaev-Krivoy Rog direction in Ukraine. Despite the wound, the Russian soldier with a machine gun is moving quite actively. The video has been shortened.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

How Iran suicide drones are made, and how to stop them?

Germany’s flak tanks “Gepard” are best suitable means.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> And the TOW missiles have top attack mode. So it doesn't really matter how modern the tank is. Its thin on the top.


you are aware that top attack mode is completely different from top attack mode of javelin .
javelin hit tank from top . Tow top attack mode is just fly 1-2m above tank and explode there only good against targets like Humvee or if infantry is hiding behind a wall cant penetrate tanks. 

about can\t be jammed if its wire guided yes , if its the laser variant well there are ways to deal with them , but as its a beam riding laser i agree its a lot harder to deal with it compared to other types . but that bring out the problem , you must keep tank on sight in all the duration of attack and you put the team in danger . (which is 2-3 men not one like Javelin) also the training and if the troop follow it in heat of war is another question.
let be honest right now the bulk of the troop of ukraine and russia are conscripts and nonprofessional troops with limited amount of training , in heat of war these type of troop tends to loose their cool far easier than professional ones



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> TOW needs fuel to move. Where's Ukraine going to get fuel with no electricity? You cannot refine oil without electricity.


tow can be transported by hand there is no need that it be carried by car , it just need a team of 3 to do that


----------



## Hack-Hook

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Such drones are not particularly difficult to make. You can buy the components on Ali Express and assemble them yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A swarm of armed drones attacked a Russian military base in Syria
> 
> 
> Russia says it has now identified the launch location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia says it killed rebels behind swarm drone attack in Syria, but experts see more such strikes ahead
> 
> 
> Moscow said it conducted a military operation to "eliminate" militants behind a coordinated drone attack on its Syrian military bases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


you see part of the effectiveness of shahed or harpy or harop and other design like this is the material you build the body from , those cant be made at home easily , even if you buy all the electronics from AliExpress (honestly i didn't knew they sell chips , taught only commercial boards is in their list) there are some small parts that make the difference . that INS is custom design , you can't get it on aliexpress , the board is custom design , you cant build it in your house as it is several layer not just two layer .and so many small thing . if they invest they can build it as its not that complex but certainly not in a home grade workshop



ZeGerman said:


> And now iran “gets even” on those big and small satans…by acting exactly the same or worse at the expense of ukranian civilians.
> 
> Iran firmly in the north korea camp/direction. EU should and likely will adopt a much harsher stance against the mullahs.
> 
> Sad to see iran slip back further to a medieval thinking dictatorship.


business is business , it knew no mother or father.
we learnt it from west , didn't you guys wanted us to embrace capitalism?


----------



## Viet

From the news. Key members of German gov want to triple the amount of weapons delivery to Kiew, worth 2.2 billion euros next fiscal year.







Bild vergrößern
Panzerhaubitze 2000: Hoffnung auf Ersatz

Foto: NIKOLAY DOYCHINOV / AFP

Reactions: Love Love:
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1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583717435613798400

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> How Iran suicide drones are made, and how to stop them?
> 
> Germany’s flak tanks “Gepard” are best suitable means.


there is some problem , first the Geprard radar of Germany are ku and s-band radar exactly the wavelength these drone have the best advantage against so no 5-5km is maximum range of the system against normal drones but in this case it will be a lot lower. , and those zu-23 also face the same problem.

second problem , there is a misconception on how these drones actually guided . the producers of video taught it only recieve a target coordination , that is not the case . it get the target coordination and several waypoint to define a path for it to the target so right its designed for swarm , but all the drones don't follow the same path . to increase the chance of the success of the mission , they are supposed to use different path to target and because of their long range this won't be a problem for them .

another problem is guidance , they assumed that it only use glonass or gps while in fact it also use INS , if in part of the path satellite link is lost for any reason the INS take control and right its not as precise , but you can't jam all the country , its only enough that for 2-3 second the drone fly in a zone that jamming is not effective , the ins reset itself and compensate for the inaccuracies with the help of new coordinate from satellite and it can do that as much as it need


----------



## sammuel

Viet said:


> From the news. Key members of German gov want to triple the amount of weapons delivery to Kiew, worth 2.2 billion euros next fiscal year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Panzerhaubitze 2000: Hoffnung auf Ersatz
> 
> Foto: NIKOLAY DOYCHINOV / AFP




France to train up to 2,000 Ukrainian soldiers, defence minister says​
“They will be assigned to our units for several weeks,” he said, adding that military training for the use of Caesar howitzers had previously been offered to Ukrainian soldiers.

“But now it’s a change of scale,” Lecornu said.


The minister said France had delivered 18 Caesar howitzers so far to Ukraine and that talks were going on to send six more. On top of these, France is also weighing the delivery of ground-to-ground missiles, Lecornu said.










France to train up to 2,000 Ukrainian soldiers, defence minister says


French President Emmanuel Macron has backed a proposal to train a large number of Ukrainian soldiers in the country, Defence Minister Sebastien Lecornu told newspaper Le Parisien on Saturday.




www.reuters.com


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> that will be the case if Ukraine ask Iran for weapon and Iran say no ,
> Did such thing ever happened?


I suggest you read up on neutrality.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Reason #3679 for why Russia will not win in Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583380070197972992
Meanwhile in Russia:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583224927507083264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581585563756285952
Can't even get logs for some reason:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583577173675606016
Remember it's not racist to call Russian Sub-human when they act like one:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583581733697425408

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I suggest you read up on neutrality.


and you on business and capitalism


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> I read that the Ukrainians could get the Switchblade 600 with longer range and bigger warhead but not as long range as I would like. Russia have their own loitering munition the Lancelet before the Iranians provided the Shahed 136.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have a new one coming out. Not sure when.


I don't think longer range is good, these drone is slow, and mostly not stealth. The longer it travel only mean the more chances you got shot down. 

Bear in mind Ukraine is not using loitering munition to attack Russian civilian target and infrastructure, which mean a well hidden troop can launch one of those drone toward enemy formation before they can react. So they don't need a lot of range. It does not work for the Ukrainian if you have to travel 1000km on a 100mph drone that Loud AF


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

I don't know about you but I think I prefer living under American "slavery" Than Russian "freedom"

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582733937473818625

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583737058291392512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583738873846587392

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## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> you are aware that top attack mode is completely different from top attack mode of javelin .
> javelin hit tank from top . Tow top attack mode is just fly 1-2m above tank and explode there only good against targets like Humvee or if infantry is hiding behind a wall cant penetrate tanks.


Are you being serious? Does that mean the NLAWs provided to Ukraine had no effect against MBTs too?

TOW top attack:

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## Vergennes

Ukrainian troops in Zaitseve,Bakhmut. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583710370111582209

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> there is some problem , first the Geprard radar of Germany are ku and s-band radar exactly the wavelength these drone have the best advantage against so no 5-5km is maximum range of the system against normal drones but in this case it will be a lot lower. , and those zu-23 also face the same problem.
> 
> second problem , there is a misconception on how these drones actually guided . the producers of video taught it only recieve a target coordination , that is not the case . it get the target coordination and several waypoint to define a path for it to the target so right its designed for swarm , but all the drones don't follow the same path . to increase the chance of the success of the mission , they are supposed to use different path to target and because of their long range this won't be a problem for them .
> 
> another problem is guidance , they assumed that it only use glonass or gps while in fact it also use INS , if in part of the path satellite link is lost for any reason the INS take control and right its not as precise , but you can't jam all the country , its only enough that for 2-3 second the drone fly in a zone that jamming is not effective , the ins reset itself and compensate for the inaccuracies with the help of new coordinate from satellite and it can do that as much as it need


INS is not precise enough, Iran drones most likely use Russia assistance or Glonass in addition. If satelitte guided or man guided from the Crimea as the Nato believe then the signals can be jammed. I don’t see why technically not possible.

About gepard flak tank, it’s 360 degree Radar can detect those deep flying drones far away and alert Ukraine air defense. That’s why the Gepard was developed, to detect and fight deep flying Soviet aircraft. What has gepard radar wave length to do with Iran guidance system?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

This is sad indeed 👇 If these types of bombings continue, there will be no infrastructure standing in Ukraine. Hopefully, a truce will be established, and Ukrainian leadership will show independence from the West.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583754532378791937

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ziaulislam said:


> Then how would you explain the gains ukrianians are making..
> 
> Russia has been pounded bad and has been exposed how poor they are in equipment and training



Those gains are no longer taking place. In the past few months, the Ukrainians have made some gains on the ground because they *hugely outnumbered* the Russians and because of their *human-wave attacks*. They were suffering heavy casualties in each piece of land they seized though.

Putin eventually let his military generals run the war without much interference. This is how the new mobilization and increased troop numbers were announced.

The Russian air defense units also adjusted to and eventually neutralized the new flux of Western weapons that for a few months gave the initiatives to Ukrainians in some areas. Now, the momentum is back on the Russian side.

The Ukrainian offensive in the Kherson front is neutralized as well. And in the Donesk region, Russians are actually gaining ground. There is also a huge military buildup on the Ukrainian-Belarus border. What the Russians will do in this theater remains to be seen.

Russians are also focusing on taking out all critical energy, rail, and power infrastructure in Ukraine. The goal is, while the new influx of troops will change the battle dynamics in the South and The Donbass region, these aerial attacks will also bring Ukraine to its knees.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Those gains are no longer taking place. In the past few months, the Ukrainians have made some gains on the ground because they *hugely outnumbered* the Russians and because of their *human-wave attacks*. They were suffering heavy casualties in each piece of land they seized though.
> 
> Putin eventually let his military generals run the war without much interference. This is how the new mobilization and increased troop numbers were announced.
> 
> The Russian air defense units also adjusted to and eventually neutralized the new flux of Western weapons that for a few months gave the initiatives to Ukrainians in some areas. Now, the momentum is back on the Russian side.
> 
> The Ukrainian offensive in the Kherson front is neutralized as well. And in the Donesk region, Russians are actually gaining ground. There is also a huge military buildup on the Ukrainian-Belarus border. What the Russians will do in this theater remains to be seen.
> 
> Russians are also focusing on taking out all critical energy, rail, and power infrastructure in Ukraine. The goal is, while the new influx of troops will change the battle dynamics in the South and The Donbass region, these aerial attacks will also bring Ukraine to its knees.



Ukrainians have made huge gains because of superior intelligence and because they have found breaches on certain areas of the front leading to total collapses of Russian lines of defence. Ukrainians have captured more territories in a matter of weeks than Russians in a matter of MONTHS. They did not "hugely outnumber" the Russians because the Ukrainians are actually outnumbered on the eastern front on every matters,be it artillery,aviation,troops,heavy equipments. 

What mattered is vastly superior intelligence and with western help combined with better combined arms tactics and superior artillery in terms of quality. The Ukrainians are constantely,helped with western intelligence,trying to find breaches on the front to conduct the same exact tactics that helped them capture areas in the east and the south.

Which Russian momentum are you talking about ? Russian "gains" are at best few dozen meters on the Bakhmut axis at the cost of huge losses,sending waves after waves notably from wagnerites. Russian army and wagner captured vesela dolyna near Bakhmut after months of fighting and carpet bombing and after taking heavy casualties..... as I said once Vesela Dolyna is literally 10 houses.... if that is the "success" you are talking about. 

Those mobilized cannon fodder without any meaningful military experience and with obsolete equipments will change zilch on the battlefield,it will eventually lead to a disaster some were already sent and killed on the front few days after being mobilized.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583751496910671873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583738483566604288

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583759163662176257

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583757528399515648

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## MeFishToo

Russia has deployed half its airborne forces (what is left of them) to defend Kherson. Ukraine might take Kherson, but I dont believe the russian forces are going to be overrun or panic. I think a slow push and an orderly russian retreat is more likely.

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> Ukrainians have made huge gains because of superior intelligence and because they have found breaches on certain areas of the front leading to total collapses of Russian lines of defence. Ukrainians have captured more territories in a matter of weeks than Russians in a matter of MONTHS. They did not "hugely outnumber" the Russians because the Ukrainians are actually outnumbered on the eastern front on every matters,be it artillery,aviation,troops,heavy equipments.
> 
> What mattered is vastly superior intelligence and with western help combined with better combined arms tactics and superior artillery in terms of quality. The Ukrainians are constantely,helped with western intelligence,trying to find breaches on the front to conduct the same exact tactics that helped them capture areas in the east and the south.
> 
> Which Russian momentum are you talking about ? Russian "gains" are at best few dozen meters on the Bakhmut axis at the cost of huge losses,sending waves after waves notably from wagnerites. Russian army and wagner captured vesela dolyna near Bakhmut after months of fighting and carpet bombing and after taking heavy casualties..... as I said once Vesela Dolyna is literally 10 houses.... if that is the "success" you are talking about.
> 
> Those mobilized cannon fodder without any meaningful military experience and with obsolete equipments will change zilch on the battlefield,it will eventually lead to a disaster some were already sent and killed on the front few days after being mobilized.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583751496910671873
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583738483566604288



looks like the pilots have changed their attack profile on the drones - ie take them out to the side, rather tham head on to avoid debris ingestion ..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583739566431010816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583803895251234816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583794627382890496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583812093383704577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583809622493696000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583808535271378944

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> you are aware that top attack mode is completely different from top attack mode of javelin .
> javelin hit tank from top . Tow top attack mode is just fly 1-2m above tank and explode there only good against targets like Humvee or if infantry is hiding behind a wall cant penetrate tanks.



As a dual trained Bradley/Abrams commander, I can tell you for a fact that what you are saying is wrong. 

TOW missile attack with a tandem warhead with the missile, a top attack mode would propel the tantalum warhead into the top side of enemy Armor......









TOW 2 Wire-Guided Anti-Tank Missile


The BGM-71 tube-launched, optically tracked, wire-guided (TOW) anti-tank missile is produced by Raytheon. TOW 2 missile is used by the US and its allies.




www.army-technology.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583795524733349888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583794089673125888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583794243583168512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583791189345546240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583794329319264256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583793433218404352

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583785637647290368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583783916506185729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583781134391201792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583808265028177920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583803032411983872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583802344256724994

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583785531292254208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583783336958644225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583778276501176320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583736645958107136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583738453317292034

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583737058291392512

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583771646719991811

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583766987494555648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583760581894451201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583751590561079296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583734219217416192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583741710319747072

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583804459058368513

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Zee-shaun




----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> and you on business and capitalism


That is not an issue. 
The actions of Iran allows Ukraine to fight a war of self-defense against Iran.


----------



## Ali_Baba

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583731413601308673

They got free sausages - or they look like sausages ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Primus

Ali_Baba said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583731413601308673
> 
> They got free sausages - or they look like sausages ?


Free lada and now free sausage. Benefits of conscription

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583807059014823938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583786031123689474

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583828725355143170

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583758458129506304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583776636398227456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583749351398322176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583815325824724992

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## Reashot Xigwin

Open mutiny by Russian ethnic minority

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## Paul2

So far AUF crushed 1 firebase which was covering the whole of northeast of Khesanh, but one located closer to Khesanh, covering Snihurivka is still operational as of 20th.

RUAF have artillery, and AUF have some tanks to spare.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583743643055435778

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Russian just being Russian

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583459486131703809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583100307843579904


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583743643055435778


The full retreat will take weeks. And the Ukrainian should attack soon if you ask me. Lest they regroup in the opposite side of the river.

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## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> Are you being serious? Does that mean the NLAWs provided to Ukraine had no effect against MBTs too?
> 
> TOW top attack:


first simply there is a problem with that tank , there is a reason they use shaped charges in atgm
second only TOW-2B or BGM-71F have Top attack capability in its rudimentary form a javelin hit the tank from top . TOW-2B fly above the target and explode 2m above the target , if you think the effect is the same i have nothing to add
a BGM-71C or BGM-71D have 900mm armor penetration a BGM-71E have 900mm penetration after ERA a TOW-2B well classified but we made a copy of it in form of Toofan-3 and Toofan-3m it was a lot less performing than other variant of Toofan missile , let just say around 100mm . so show me a video that prove the hatches above that tank were not open


and NLAWs were effective , 
against these


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583844569178722304


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583839983789834240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583813307508477952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583840550473461760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583722107992961024

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----------



## Paul2

Just as jhun predicted 2w ago. RUAF are getting flanked north of Khesanh.

The "plug" that was blocking the road to Beryslav from the north was weak, and folded upon first concerted assault.

I was puzzled what AFU were waiting in Brid, and now it appears they were waiting for this.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is sad indeed 👇 If these types of bombings continue, there will be no infrastructure standing in Ukraine. Hopefully, a truce will be established, and Ukrainian leadership will show independence from the West.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583754532378791937


Infrastructure can be rebuilt, freedom from a dictator cannot

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> INS is not precise enough, Iran drones most likely use Russia assistance or Glonass in addition. If satelitte guided or man guided from the Crimea as the Nato believe then the signals can be jammed. I don’t see why technically not possible.
> 
> About gepard flak tank, it’s 360 degree Radar can detect those deep flying drones far away and alert Ukraine air defense. That’s why the Gepard was developed, to detect and fight deep flying Soviet aircraft. What has gepard radar wave length to do with Iran guidance system?


where i said , Iran drones use ins to hit the target , if they wanted to use INS , they would have been another V1 . they are not , INS is there to help if the connection to satellite is lost , it use that ins to go toward the target , and as soon as it find satellite connection for several second , it fix that ins inaccuracy problem , if again the satellite is lost it again fallback to ins and continue toward target , if again it can connect to satellite well no problem , it fix the coordinate and INS and go toward the target , if no the satellite don't come back , no biggie its only less than 20000$ , sorry children in kindergarten that it fall on your head , your government was too lazy to effectively counter the drone, or just cared about the elites not you.

about Gepard radar , like any radar it has its limitation . let compare normal drone to F-4 and this drone to F-117 . a question for you do the radars detect them at the same distances?


----------



## Paul2

Hack-Hook said:


> where i said , Iran drones use ins to hit the target , if they wanted to use INS , they would have been another V1 . they are not , INS is there to help if the connection to satellite is lost , it use that ins to go toward the target , and as soon as it find satellite connection for several second , it fix that ins inaccuracy problem , if again the satellite is lost it again fallback to ins and continue toward target , if again it can connect to satellite well no problem , it fix the coordinate and INS and go toward the target , if no the satellite don't come back , no biggie its only less than 20000$ , sorry children in kindergarten that it fall on your head , your government was too lazy to effectively counter the drone, or just cared about the elites not you.
> 
> about Gepard radar , like any radar it has its limitation . let compare normal drone to F-4 and this drone to F-117 . a question for you do the radars detect them at the same distances?



TOWs are optically guided, they can be jammed. Yet, I have to see a single russian tank to try to use the Shtora jammer

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Just as jhun predicted 2w ago. RUAF are getting flanked north of Khesanh.
> 
> The "plug" that was blocking the road to Beryslav from the north was weak, and folded upon first concerted assault.
> 
> I was puzzled what AFU were waiting in Brid, and now it appears they were waiting for this.


Kind of easy to predict what the Ukrainian would do as they now solely operate like a Western Force. Mostly to throw the Russian off balance because the Russia are still probably think Ukraine will fight with Soviet doctrine, which would be just went in and wham bam thank you ma'am.

All the build up, all the positioning point to an hammer and anvil type advance. This is what I would do if I am in battlefield control.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583795594317156352


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> TOW missile attack with a tandem warhead with the missile, a top attack mode would propel the tantalum warhead into the top side of enemy Armor......


and if its not top secret what is the penetration compared to normal tows


----------



## ziaulislam

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583771646719991811
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583766987494555648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583760581894451201
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583751590561079296
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583734219217416192
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583741710319747072


ITS PATHETIC TO SEE THAT UKRIANE AIRFORCE STILL EXISTS..SHOWS HOW OVERATED russians are.
its amazing that they haven't neutralized airforce that should have been the first thing to neutralize..havent learned anything from last 4 decades of warfare

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## Dalit

Titanium100 said:


> You know what your problem is every topic you find ways to make it about Pakistan and Pakistan local politics.. You hijack complete different topics... This is international arena..
> 
> In your view point only Pakistan exists in the world and Pakistan has to be insert where there is none



Okay Uncle Tom. Whatever rocks your boat.

Your Pakistan under the leadership of Bajwa is currently a slave of America. That is all I am going to say about YOUR Pakistan.


----------



## ziaulislam

Hack-Hook said:


> and you on business and capitalism


Swedish are expert in neutrality. They were the only country who earned billions from nazis during WW2..you have to give it to them

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## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> Infrastructure can be rebuilt, freedom from a dictator cannot



That is if you retrieve lost Ukrainian territory from Russia. Also, the war in Ukraine is only intensifying. The Russians are changing their tactics constantly. When exactly do you intend to rebuild Ukraine?

What if Russia annexed more Ukrainian territory in the coming months and probably years? Have you thought of such a scenario? You can shelve your plan to rebuild Ukraine because this war isn't ending anytime soon.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is not an issue.
> The actions of Iran allows Ukraine to fight a war of self-defense against Iran.


well if they think we attack them , they can attack us . our missiles can reach Ukraine from Iran , our drones can reach Ukraine from Iran .
on a side note we also reserve the right to attack anybody who pits weapon is used by the terrorist who attack us

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583802909443076097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583796091924803585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583595132976144384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583808310402117632

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## Dalit

Such noises are becoming a daily routine now at the highest level.









The West is already fighting World War 3 with Russia, former White House Russia advisor Fiona Hill says


Fiona Hill one of the foremost experts on Putin's Russia, said the West has been embroiled in conflict with Russia for some time.




www.businessinsider.com





The Western world is already fighting a world war with Russia.

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russian just being Russian
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583459486131703809
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583100307843579904


don't Sweden use Nikon camera on its road and Russia use cannon camera in its drones ?


----------



## Dalit

There we have it. As I predicted. Russia continues to pounce more critical infrastructure.









Ukraine war: Massive Russian strikes target energy grid - Zelensky


Ukraine's president says the attacks were on a "very wide" scale, but power was restored in many areas.



www.bbc.com





Winter is coming and the Ukrainians have lesser power plants at their disposal. We are going to see massive power cuts across Ukraine.

Already almost a third of the country's power stations have been destroyed in a wave of air strikes since Monday last week.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583866113649410049


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583866113649410049



Single hit...

They were trying to counterbattery against an opponent with a cb radar, and an excalibur

You also see the driver is certainly a novice


----------



## ziaulislam

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583802909443076097
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583796091924803585
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583595132976144384
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583808310402117632


Real issue in ukriane isn't the tank failure
It's is the failure to establish airpower

Russia has failed to establish air superiority in ukriane...

The first order of business is always to destroy opposition air force, runaways and infrastructure..

Russia didn't do anything of such


----------



## Dalit

Russia strikes critical infrastructure to provoke new waves of refugees to Europe - Podolyak


By striking Ukraine’s critical infrastructure, Russia wants to provoke new refugees flee to Europe. — Ukrinform.




www.ukrinform.net





How do Europeans now respond to Ukrainian refugees?









EU weighs Ukraine support as new refugee exodus beckons | Times Leader


By LORNE COOK BRUSSELS (AP) — European Union leaders are gathering Friday to take stock of their support for Ukraine after President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned that Russia is trying to spark a refugee…




www.timesleader.com





LOL









Why Israel won't give lethal aid to Ukraine


With Hezbollah and Iran knocking on its northern border, and Russian troops deployed in Syria, Israel must be cautious.




spectatorworld.com





The world hasn't been in a greater crisis since the world wars. Climate crisis. Economic crisis. Territorial conflicts. Food shortages.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583804661089599489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583804078412681216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583802431124619264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583873870561304576

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583804661089599489
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583804078412681216



The uncle Tom's in this topic won't call it by its name. I will. This is a shock and awe against Ukrainian power infrastructure. The Russians are now deliberately targeting very specific infrastructure. This isn't the emotional pounce and run tactic. This is a carefully crafted policy to cripple Nazi Zelensky. Russia will continue this targeted assault against critical infrastructure. Something they should have done from day one. Nevertheless the effect on the ground is massive. Ukrainians understand that Zelensky won't be there to save the day during the ice cold winter.

All one has to do is listen to the cries of Zelensky. His words and cries of helplessness speak volume.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583863928072781825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583853831347392513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583853860061253634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583775472412160000

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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583863928072781825
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583853831347392513
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583853860061253634
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583775472412160000


it seems Russia still need to learn and yet to grasp how war most be conducted .destroy western links of the grid , will punish the ones who armed Ukraine , easily by one strike they will lose 10-20% of their electricity


----------



## kingQamaR

Real question here...why are the railroads being used to resupply the Russians still functional? Does anyone know? Wouldn't these rails be a primary target? Call me crazy, but one or two well placed missiles could certainly be money well spent. The intricacies of "polite" combat are certainly confusing.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## aziqbal

surely buying from Iran is a stop gap 

so what is Russias long term goal here ?

they are running low on almost everything


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583759184746905602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583737598203162625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583734542028148738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583730994149961728

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## zartosht

Even the zionists are starting to see the writing on the wall and want nothing to do. With this nato humiliation 

The zionist system sent would not only get humiliated once its saturated and destroyed by precision strikes rock throwing hamas lacks

But this would also piss Russia off to a degree, that the next major zionist war, they would be facing a combined alliance of Iran, Russia, Syria and Hezbollah

Hezbollah alone is enough to humiliate the pathetic zionists. Imagine those 3 countries added…. I doubt the zionist entity would survive long under these circumstances. 

It would take once weekly maintenance attacks by hezbollah to completely paralyze the zionist economy 

Half of zionist security is dependent on hot air and fear. Arabs have this inferior feeling towards zionjsts that thinm of them as this invincible force. Iranians and Iran allies dont share such delusions

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## Vergennes

According to grey zone (wagner) the situation is even worse in Kherson than it was in Kharkiv.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583885925423013888


zartosht said:


> Even the zionists are starting to see the writing on the wall and want nothing to do. With this nato humiliation
> 
> The zionist system sent would not only get humiliated once its saturated and destroyed by precision strikes rock throwing hamas lacks
> 
> But this would also piss Russia off to a degree, that the next major zionist war, they would be facing a combined alliance of Iran, Russia, Syria and Hezbollah
> 
> Hezbollah alone is enough to humiliate the pathetic zionists. Imagine those 3 countries added…. I doubt the zionist entity would survive long under these circumstances.
> 
> It would take once weekly maintenance attacks by hezbollah to completely paralyze the zionist economy
> 
> Half of zionist security is dependent on hot air and fear. Arabs have this inferior feeling towards zionjsts that thinm of them as this invincible force. Iranians and Iran allies dont share such delusions



Beware there's a juice under your bed.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Dalit said:


> There we have it. As I predicted. Russia continues to pounce more critical infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Massive Russian strikes target energy grid - Zelensky
> 
> 
> Ukraine's president says the attacks were on a "very wide" scale, but power was restored in many areas.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Winter is coming and the Ukrainians have lesser power plants at their disposal. We are going to see massive power cuts across Ukraine.
> 
> Already almost a third of the country's power stations have been destroyed in a wave of air strikes since Monday last week.



Most of those power plants already not operational or hardly operational due to lack of fuel. Especially nuclear power plants since Russia banned uranium export to Ukraine.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583796091924803585



T-62M shoots laser guided missiles range 4 km. It knocks out T-72 from beyond enagagement range of T-72.


----------



## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> first simply there is a problem with that tank , there is a reason they use shaped charges in atgm
> second only TOW-2B or BGM-71F have Top attack capability in its rudimentary form a javelin hit the tank from top . TOW-2B fly above the target and explode 2m above the target , if you think the effect is the same i have nothing to add
> a BGM-71C or BGM-71D have 900mm armor penetration a BGM-71E have 900mm penetration after ERA a TOW-2B well classified but we made a copy of it in form of Toofan-3 and Toofan-3m it was a lot less performing than other variant of Toofan missile , let just say around 100mm . so show me a video that prove the hatches above that tank were not open
> 
> 
> and NLAWs were effective ,
> against these


You are basically just talking nonsense.
You said: _Tow top attack mode is just fly 1-2m above tank and explode there only good against targets like Humvee or if infantry is hiding behind a wall cant penetrate tanks._

I challenge you to hide inside a T72 in line of sight of a TOW-2B. Its designed to penetrate armor, not infantry hidding behind something. And when I posted a test of the TOW system you just claim something was wrong with the tank…

The NLAW has proven itself in Ukraine, actually at the very beginning of the war:


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> Swedish are expert in neutrality. They were the only country who earned billions from nazis during WW2..you have to give it to them


Sweden declared itself to *non-belligerent* in December 1939.

Anyway, it does not violate neutrality to trade most goods with a belligerent nation.
Sweden traded both with Germany and with the Allies.

As Sweden had broken the crypto in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_and_Halske_T52 Geheimschreiber it knew exactly where the red lines were for Germany. Germany considered invading Sweden several times because of obstinate behaviour.


----------



## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> I challenge you to hide inside a T72 in line of sight of a TOW-2B. Its designed to penetrate armor, not infantry hidding behind something. And when I posted a test of the TOW system you just claim something was wrong with the tank…
> 
> The NLAW has proven itself in Ukraine, actually at the very beginning of the war:


whats the penetration of tow-2b
and yes it explode 2m above tank it has two charge , one directly down and one slightly forward to hit the target . and whatever you say Tow-2A have a lot better chance destroying a tank than TOW-2b and Javelin have better chance destroying tanks than TOW 
TOW is harder to use , you must keep target in sight , its heavier and is not one man weapon . a lot harder to ambush enemy with it , the tow Ukraine received are mounted on truck so they are even harder to hide. and so I again say they are downgrade compared to Javelin . if you are arguing TOW-2b top Attack is as effective or better than Javelin , well that is your belief . reality is something else


----------



## The SC




----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> well if they think we attack them , they can attack us . our missiles can reach Ukraine from Iran , our drones can reach Ukraine from Iran .
> on a side note we also reserve the right to attack anybody who pits weapon is used by the terrorist who attack us


Attacks on Iran by a nation in a conflict started by Iran is not terrorism, it is self-defense.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wergeland

kingQamaR said:


> Real question here...why are the railroads being used to resupply the Russians still functional? Does anyone know? Wouldn't these rails be a primary target? Call me crazy, but one or two well placed missiles could certainly be money well spent. The intricacies of "polite" combat are certainly confusing.



This is a mystery to me too.
Obviously Russia has the capability to destroy these critical supply lines.

I think Russia in the beginning wanted to spare critical infra, because they didnt want to harm civillian life unneccesary.

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> if Forbes and TCF and NYTimes are aquired by IRGC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> N.Y.C. Schools Are Forced to Cut Hundreds of Teachers as Funding Drops
> 
> 
> More than three-quarters of district schools have lost enrollment. “I’ve wiped their tears and assured them the future is hopeful even as I’ve told them I’m leaving,” one teacher said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and NCR article from 5 years ago , the teachers wages have seen one of the highest rises in last 5-6 years compared to the rest and by the way NCR is a affiliated to some terrorist groups who have been proven to publish bullshit
> the article was truth if it was 10 years ago


NY Times: yes its the ultimate Revolutionary newspaper. You are basing your facts on a US publication but you have never spoken to a teacher. And you expect the members here to NOT believe a publication because you accuse it of treachery, yet somehow the Govt magically listened to that bullshit and increased salaries.










Iran Teachers Protest New Pay Scales as Inflation Bites


Hundreds of rallied in cities across the country to protest changes to their pay and pensions that come just as soaring prices hit their wallets, state media reported




www.voanews.com





Then why are teachers protesting? Also must not be true: If Iran with 40% of population living at pvoerty line, and the rich parking their money in Dubai can afford to supply third rate mopeds to Russia, US as the worlds top 5 highest per capita income certainly has no trouble giving $100Bn a year to Ukraine for as long as it takes. 

This discussion is completely irrelevant but somehow you felt this was the path to go down on by starting this tangent.

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## Paul2

Wergeland said:


> This is a mystery to me too.
> Obviously Russia has the capability to destroy these critical supply lines.
> 
> I think Russia in the beginning wanted to spare critical infra, because they didnt want to harm civillian life unneccesary.



Rails are easy to repair. An engineering battalion needs less than an hour do things like put a fill, compact, weld rails, and restore signalling

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> whats the penetration of tow-2b
> and yes it explode 2m above tank it has two charge , one directly down and one slightly forward to hit the target . and whatever you say Tow-2A have a lot better chance destroying a tank than TOW-2b and Javelin have better chance destroying tanks than TOW
> TOW is harder to use , you must keep target in sight , its heavier and is not one man weapon . a lot harder to ambush enemy with it , the tow Ukraine received are mounted on truck so they are even harder to hide. and so I again say they are downgrade compared to Javelin . if you are arguing TOW-2b top Attack is as effective or better than Javelin , well that is your belief . reality is something else


Fact is the TOW system is going to destroy any armor the russians are going to field on the open plains of Ukraine. Its nothing like youre portraying it.
The TOW system is basically the NATO version of the Stuhna. I think the ukrainians will manage to use it for ambush or static defence as theyve done with the Stuhna.
Ukraine have recieved 10.000? Javelin missiles and 50.000? NLAW, EC LAW, Matador.. theyll find some use of the TOW systems range.


----------



## jamal18

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582980325885374464
An excellent interview of Victor Orban, Hungarian President. Insight into the war. About 1 hour.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583828327449923587

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583812093383704577

Reactions: Like Like:
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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583859473973936129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583829863500156929

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## kingQamaR

MeFishToo said:


> Fact is the TOW system is going to destroy any armor the russians are going to field on the open plains of Ukraine. Its nothing like youre portraying it.
> The TOW system is basically the NATO version of the Stuhna. I think the ukrainians will manage to use it for ambush or static defence as theyve done with the Stuhna.
> Ukraine have recieved 10.000? Javelin missiles and 50.000? NLAW, EC LAW, Matador.. theyll find some use of the TOW systems range.



Javelin, No need to find a weak spot. This is a "fire and forget" shoulder launched system. Anything it locks onto will be blown to smithereens.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

LOL where are those Russians that say the SU-57 are better than the F-35

"The Su-57 suffers from a low production rate. Export models are unlikely to be available until the end of the decade."









Russia’s military aircraft exports are headed for a nosedive


The military reputation of the Russian Aerospace Forces has been badly tarnished — and that is rubbing off on the aircraft.




www.defensenews.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wergeland

Reashot Xigwin said:


> 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
> 
> LOL where are those Russians that say the SU-57 are better than the F-35
> 
> "The Su-57 suffers from a low production rate. Export models are unlikely to be available until the end of the decade."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s military aircraft exports are headed for a nosedive
> 
> 
> The military reputation of the Russian Aerospace Forces has been badly tarnished — and that is rubbing off on the aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defensenews.com



Su-57 is a «failed» design.
Russia lacks the funding and tech necessary to build and mass produce a true 5th-gen fighter.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583610743437393921

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

ziaulislam said:


> Sweden sells bofor guns to India that has killed Pakistani civilians at line of control inside Pakistan.
> 
> Is Pakistan now allowed to fire blastic missiles towards Sweden?



No because Sweden sold Saab 2000 AEW&C to Pakistan.

Show proof that Turkiye is helping Russia or Iran is helping Ukraine.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583914410011418624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583909079403331584


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583882384864579584





Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583877348730232833




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583583465529696257


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Wergeland said:


> Su-57 is a «failed» design.
> Russia lacks the funding and tech necessary to build and mass produce a true 5th-gen fighter.



You know a weapon has failed when even the dumb Indians have rejected it.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583929636500537345

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583915862624735232

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583916021705936896

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

kingQamaR said:


> Javelin, No need to find a weak spot. This is a "fire and forget" shoulder launched system. Anything it locks onto will be blown to smithereens.


Thats not the point. Point is he claimed TOW 2B in top attack couldnt hurt a tank or any armor, just humvees or infantry, which is false. The TOW system is just as effective an anti tank missile as the ukrainian version. He is just deflecting, taking about effective armor penetration, fire and forget, crew based etc. I will bet no infantry unit is carrying a Javelin system around on foot anyway. Its transported by anti tank units in vehicles or stored somewhere in a trench system.


----------



## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583909220323590144

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

*US is officially entering the war with Russia in Ukraine.

Putin's time is up now.

Russia is going to be balkanized in the next few months.*




CBS MORNINGS 
The U.S. Army's 101st Airborne is practicing for war with Russia just miles from Ukraine's border​


BY CHARLIE D'AGATA, STEVE BERRIMAN, TUCKER REALS
OCTOBER 21, 2022 / 11:22 AM / CBS NEWS




_Mihail Kogălniceanu, Romania_ — The U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division has been deployed to Europe for the first time in almost 80 years amid soaring tension between Russia and the American-led NATO military alliance. The light infantry unit, nicknamed the "Screaming Eagles," is trained to deploy on any battlefield in the world within hours, ready to fight.

CBS News joined the division's Deputy Commander, Brigadier General John Lubas, and Colonel Edwin Matthaidess, Commander of the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, on a Black Hawk helicopter for the hour-long ride to the very edge of NATO territory — only around three miles from Romania's border with Ukraine.

From the moment Russian President Vladimir Putin launched his full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, his forces have advanced northward from the Crimean Peninsula, a Ukrainian region that Moscow illegally seized control of in 2014. For more than seven months, Russian troops have tried to push along the Black Sea coast into the Kherson region, aiming to capture the key Ukrainian port cities of Mykolaiv and Odesa.


Their goal is to cut off all Ukrainian access to the sea, leaving the country and its military forces landlocked.

That threat, so close to NATO territory in Romania, is why one of America's most elite air assault divisions has been sent in, with some heavy equipment.


"We're ready to defend every inch of NATO soil," Lubas told CBS News. "We bring a unique capability, from our air assault capability… We're a light infantry force, but again, we bring that mobility with us, for our aircraft and air assaults." 

Skirting northward along Romania's Black Sea coast, the Black Hawk eventually touched down at a forward operating site where U.S. and Romanian troops were pounding targets during a joint ground and air assault exercise.

The tank rounds and artillery fire were real. The drill was meant to recreate the battles Ukraine's forces are fighting every day against Russian troops, just across the border. The war games so close to that border are a clear message to Russia and to America's NATO allies, that the U.S. Army is here.


"The real meaning for me, to have the American troops here, is like if you were to have allies in Normandy before any enemy was there," Romanian Major General Lulian Berdila told CBS News, referring to the landmark World War II battle on France's north coast. The American forces have been establishing a garrison at the Romanian military's air base.


In all, about 4,700 soldiers from the 101st Airborne's home base in Fort Campbell, Kentucky, have been deployed to reinforce NATO's eastern flank.

Matthaidess told CBS News that he and his troops were the closest American forces to the fighting in Ukraine. From their vantage point, they've been "closely watching" the Russian forces, "building objectives to practice against" and conducting drills that "replicate exactly what's going on" in the war.

"It keeps us on our toes," he said.

The "Screaming Eagles" commanders told CBS News repeatedly that they are always "ready to fight tonight," and while they're there to defend NATO territory, if the fighting escalates or there's any attack on NATO, they're fully prepared to cross the border into Ukraine.










The U.S. Army's 101st Airborne is practicing for war with Russia just miles from Ukraine's border


U.S. troops in Romania are extremely close to Putin's war, conducting exercises with NATO allies that "replicate exactly what's going on" over the border.




www.cbsnews.com

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## MeFishToo

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> *US is officially entering the war with Russia in Ukraine.
> 
> Putin's time is up now.
> 
> Russia is going to be balkanized in the next few months.*
> 
> 
> 
> CBS MORNINGS
> The U.S. Army's 101st Airborne is practicing for war with Russia just miles from Ukraine's border​
> 
> 
> BY CHARLIE D'AGATA, STEVE BERRIMAN, TUCKER REALS
> OCTOBER 21, 2022 / 11:22 AM / CBS NEWS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Mihail Kogălniceanu, Romania_ — The U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division has been deployed to Europe for the first time in almost 80 years amid soaring tension between Russia and the American-led NATO military alliance. The light infantry unit, nicknamed the "Screaming Eagles," is trained to deploy on any battlefield in the world within hours, ready to fight.
> 
> CBS News joined the division's Deputy Commander, Brigadier General John Lubas, and Colonel Edwin Matthaidess, Commander of the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, on a Black Hawk helicopter for the hour-long ride to the very edge of NATO territory — only around three miles from Romania's border with Ukraine.
> 
> From the moment Russian President Vladimir Putin launched his full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, his forces have advanced northward from the Crimean Peninsula, a Ukrainian region that Moscow illegally seized control of in 2014. For more than seven months, Russian troops have tried to push along the Black Sea coast into the Kherson region, aiming to capture the key Ukrainian port cities of Mykolaiv and Odesa.
> 
> 
> Their goal is to cut off all Ukrainian access to the sea, leaving the country and its military forces landlocked.
> 
> That threat, so close to NATO territory in Romania, is why one of America's most elite air assault divisions has been sent in, with some heavy equipment.
> 
> 
> "We're ready to defend every inch of NATO soil," Lubas told CBS News. "We bring a unique capability, from our air assault capability… We're a light infantry force, but again, we bring that mobility with us, for our aircraft and air assaults."
> 
> Skirting northward along Romania's Black Sea coast, the Black Hawk eventually touched down at a forward operating site where U.S. and Romanian troops were pounding targets during a joint ground and air assault exercise.
> 
> The tank rounds and artillery fire were real. The drill was meant to recreate the battles Ukraine's forces are fighting every day against Russian troops, just across the border. The war games so close to that border are a clear message to Russia and to America's NATO allies, that the U.S. Army is here.
> 
> 
> "The real meaning for me, to have the American troops here, is like if you were to have allies in Normandy before any enemy was there," Romanian Major General Lulian Berdila told CBS News, referring to the landmark World War II battle on France's north coast. The American forces have been establishing a garrison at the Romanian military's air base.
> 
> 
> In all, about 4,700 soldiers from the 101st Airborne's home base in Fort Campbell, Kentucky, have been deployed to reinforce NATO's eastern flank.
> 
> Matthaidess told CBS News that he and his troops were the closest American forces to the fighting in Ukraine. From their vantage point, they've been "closely watching" the Russian forces, "building objectives to practice against" and conducting drills that "replicate exactly what's going on" in the war.
> 
> "It keeps us on our toes," he said.
> 
> The "Screaming Eagles" commanders told CBS News repeatedly that they are always "ready to fight tonight," and while they're there to defend NATO territory, if the fighting escalates or there's any attack on NATO, they're fully prepared to cross the border into Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. Army's 101st Airborne is practicing for war with Russia just miles from Ukraine's border
> 
> 
> U.S. troops in Romania are extremely close to Putin's war, conducting exercises with NATO allies that "replicate exactly what's going on" over the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com


All NATO units in eastern Europe are preparing for a defensive war with Russia. If that is “officially entering the war in Ukraine” it has been ongoing for years.

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## The SC




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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583946355868696576


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## The SC

Ukraine: The New Satellite War - Digital Eye​

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583692904950005761

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583514432596226048

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583953259299221504

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## khansaheeb

Ukraine war: Massive Russian strikes target energy grid - Zelensky


Ukraine's president says the attacks were on a "very wide" scale, but power was restored in many areas.



www.bbc.com




Ukraine war: Massive Russian strikes target energy grid - Zelensky​

Published
1 hour ago

Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war





IMAGE SOURCE,UKRAINIAN PRESIDENTIAL PRESS SERVICE VIA REUTERS
Image caption,
Russia strikes have crippled power plants across Ukraine in recent days
By Henri Astier & Yaroslav Lukov
BBC News

*Russia has launched a "new massive strike" targeting Ukraine's energy grid, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has said.*
He said the attacks were on a "very wide" scale, hitting Ukraine's regions in the west, centre, south and east.
Nearly 1.5 million households were without electricity, Kyiv said.
But Mr Zelensky said most of the Russian missiles and drones were being shot down, and such strikes would not stop a Ukrainian military advance.
"Of course, we do not yet have the technical ability to shoot down 100% of Russian missiles and attack drones. We will gradually come to this - with the help of our partners, I'm confident of this," the Ukrainian leader said in his video address late on Saturday.
Almost a third of Ukraine's power stations and other energy-generating facilities have been destroyed in a wave of air strikes since Monday last week.


How is Russia using 'kamikaze' drones in Ukraine?
Russia-Iran ties over Ukraine pose new dangers

The areas targeted by the latest attacks include the Cherkasy region, south-east of the capital Kyiv, and the city of Khmelnytskyi, further west.
Air strikes and power disruptions were also reported from Odesa in the south to Rivne and Lutsk in the north-west.

ADVERTISEMENT


The national electricity operator, Ukrenergo, said the strikes may have caused more damage than intense bombardment earlier this month.
President Zelensky said that 36 rockets had been launched on Saturday, and most of them had been downed.



IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
Image caption,
The latest wave of strikes have also wrecked many homes
The deputy mayor of the western city of Lviv, Serhiy Kiral, told the BBC on Saturday that Russia's strategy was to damage critical infrastructure before the winter, and bring the war to areas beyond the front line.
"The more successes the Ukrainian armed forces are having at the front the worse it's going to be for people on the home front because Russia is going to do all it can to target civilians and to target critical infrastructure," he said in an interview with the Newshour radio programme.

On Friday Mr Zelensky accused Russia of planting mines at a hydroelectric dam in the Kherson region of southern Ukraine, which is under the control of Moscow's forces.








He said that if the Kakhovka hydropower plant was destroyed, hundreds of thousands of people would be in danger of flooding. Russia has denied planning to blow up the dam and said Ukraine was firing missiles at it.
The dam may provide Russia with one of the few remaining routes across the River Dnieper (called Dnipro by Ukrainians) in the partially occupied Kherson region.
Thousands of civilians have been leaving the city of Kherson in recent days, as Ukrainian forces advance.
And on Saturday a new directive from occupying Russian authorities was released, renewing its appeal for civilians to leave "immediately".
The transfer or deportation of civilians by an occupying power from occupied territory is considered a war crime. In September, the UN said there were already credible accusations of forced deportation of Ukrainian children from Russian-occupied areas.

Russia's ambassador to the UN, Vasily Nebenzia, said the allegations were unfounded.
Meanwhile, Ukraine's armed forces said that Russian troops on Saturday had left two villages - Charivne and Chkalove - in Kherson region. The claim has not been independently verified.
Across the border, in Russia's Belgorod region, the local governor said two people had been killed in Ukrainian shelling.

Estimated losses

From Reuters · Updated 2 days ago
Deaths
At least 29,916 people
Non-fatal injuries
At least 53,616 people
Displaced
Approximately 14M people
Buildings destroyed
At least 140,000
Property damage
Approximately $350B


----------



## BHAN85

The SC said:


>



I dont see the "genius" idea.

Any GNSS can be jammed, Inertial Guidance can't be jammed.

I guess Shaheds-136 have the GNSS antenna as directional antenna pointing only to sky to avoid jamming.

So the solution must be put something higher than shahed in the sky jamming Glonass signal. A kind of air balloon just to fck up Glonass signal.

Something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon_LLC

But just to fck Glonass signal.


----------



## BHAN85

Paul2 said:


> Rails are easy to repair. An engineering battalion needs less than an hour do things like put a fill, compact, weld rails, and restore signalling



A train bridge is not easy to repair. There are no bridges in all train line?


----------



## khansaheeb

Russia has these ready, would it be classified as a WMD?:-









Father of All Bombs - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Father of All Bombs​From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Jump to navigationJump to search






show
This article *may be expanded with text translated from the corresponding article in Russian*. _(May 2012)_ Click [show] for important translation instructions.

SpecificationsProduction historyService history"The Father of All Bombs" (FOAB)


FOAB imageTypeThermobaric bombPlace of originRussiaUsed byRussian Air ForceWarsRussian military intervention in the Syrian Civil WarDesignerRussian militaryProduced2007Mass7,100 kg (15,650 lb)FillingHigh explosive and fine aluminum powder and ethylene oxide mix.Blast yield44 tons TNT / 88,000 Ibs
*Aviation Thermobaric Bomb of Increased Power* (*ATBIP*; Russian: Авиационная вакуумная бомба повышенной мощности, АВБПМ),[1] nicknamed *"Father of All Bombs"* (*FOAB*; Russian: "Папа всех бомб", Пвб),[2] is a Russian-designed, bomber-delivered thermobaric weapon.
The bomb is reportedly similar to the US military's GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast which is often unofficially called "Mother of All Bombs" derived from its official military acronym "MOAB". This weapon would therefore be the most powerful conventional (non-nuclear) weapon in the world.[3] However, the veracity of Russia's claims concerning the weapon's size and power have been questioned by US defense analysts.[4]
"FOAB" was successfully field-tested in the late evening of 11 September 2007.[5] The new weapon is to replace several smaller types of nuclear bombs in the Russian arsenal.[6]
Contents​
1Description
2Operational history
3Claims
4Analysis and veracity
5See also
6References
Description[edit]​


Fireball blast from the Russian "Father of All Bombs", with the beginnings of a mushroom cloud
The thermobaric device yields the equivalent of 44 tons of TNT using about seven tons of a new type of high explosive.[7] Because of this, the bomb's blast and pressure wave have a similar effect to a small tactical nuclear weapon.[8] The bomb works by detonating in mid-air. Most damage is inflicted by a supersonic shockwave and extremely high temperatures.[6][9] Thermobaric weapons differ from conventional explosive weapons in that they generate a longer, more sustained blast wave with greater temperatures. In doing so, they produce more damage over a larger area than a conventional weapon of similar mass.[3]
Operational history[edit]​On 8 September 2017, unconfirmed reports of the Russian Defense Ministry announced it had tested the FOAB in combat for the first time in Syria as a part of its military campaign in the region.[10]
Claims[edit]​According to General Aleksandr Rukshin, the Russian Deputy Chief of Staff, the new bomb was smaller than the MOAB but much deadlier because the temperature at the centre of the blast is twice as high.[5][11][12] He claimed the bomb's capabilities are comparable to nuclear weapons, but unlike nuclear weaponry known for its radioactive fallout, use of the weapon does not damage or pollute the environment beyond the blast radius.[6]
In comparison, the MOAB produces the equivalent of 11 tons of TNT from 8 tons of high explosive. The blast radius of the FOAB is 300 meters, almost double that of the MOAB, and the temperature produced is twice as high.[9]

IndicatorMОАВ[13]FОАВ[14]*Origin*:



US



Russia*Mass*:10.3 tonnes7.1 tonnes*Length*9.19 m7 m*Diameter*1030 mm7 - 930+ mm*TNT equivalent*:11 tons (22,000 lb)≈44 tons (≈88,000 lb)*Blast radius*:150 meters (492 ft)300 meters (984 ft)*Guidance*:INS/GPSGLONASS

Analysis and veracity[edit]​Some defense analysts question both the yield of the bomb and whether it could be deployed by a Tupolev Tu-160 bomber. A report by _Wired_[4] says photos and the video of the event suggest that it is designed to be deployed from the rear of a slow moving cargo plane, and they note that the bomb-test video released by the Russians never shows both the bomb and the bomber in the same camera shot. There are also questions on what type of explosives it used. They quoted Tom Burky, a senior research scientist at Battelle, saying "It's not even clear what kind of weapon the Russians tested." He questions if it was what some experts call a fuel-air explosive or if it was a thermobaric weapon. "Fuel-air and thermobaric bombs differ in usefulness". Burky says that the weapon depicted in the video appears to be a fuel-air explosive, based on its shape.[4]
German military analyst Sascha Lange speaking at _Deutsche Welle_ pointed out multiple discrepancies of the released video and expressed his skepticism.[15]
John Pike, an analyst at the think tank GlobalSecurity, says he believes the weapon is roughly as powerful as the Russians claim. What he does not necessarily believe is that the weapon is new. He says the Russians have possessed a range of thermobaric weapons for at least four decades.[4]
Robert Hewson, an editor for Jane's Information Group, told the BBC it was likely that FOAB indeed represented the world's biggest non-nuclear bomb. "You can argue about the numbers and how you scale this but the Russians have a long and proven history of developing weapons in the thermobaric class", he says.[4][8] UPI claimed the device "would enormously boost Russia's conventional military capabilities".[4]
See also[edit]​
Massive Ordnance Penetrator
Grand Slam (bomb)
Soviet atomic bomb project
Tsar Bomba
References[edit]​
*^* Romanized as _Aviatsonnaya vakuumaya bomba povyshennoy moshchnosti_ (AVBPM) or scientifically transliterated as _Aviacionnaja vakuumaja povyšennoj bomba moščnosti_.
*^* Transliterated as _Papa vsekh bomb_ (Pvb)
^ Jump up to:_*a*_ _*b*_ Luke Harding (2007-09-12). "Russia unveils the 'father of all bombs'". London: Guardian Unlimited. Retrieved 2007-09-12.
^ Jump up to:_*a*_ _*b*_ _*c*_ _*d*_ _*e*_ _*f*_ "Did Russia Stage the Father of All Bombs Hoax?". _Wired.com_. October 4, 2007. Retrieved 2007-10-04.
^ Jump up to:_*a*_ _*b*_ Илья Kрамник (2007-09-12). Кузькин отец (in Russian). Lenta.Ru. Retrieved 2007-09-12.
^ Jump up to:_*a*_ _*b*_ _*c*_ Russia tests `world's most powerful bomb, Russia Today Retrieved on March 18, 1987
*^* "Trump Dropped Mother of All Bombs. But he Wasn't Expecting Russia to do This – Belair Daily". _www.belairdaily.com_. Archived from the original on 2017-05-17. Retrieved 2017-04-16.
^ Jump up to:_*a*_ _*b*_ Russia tests giant fuel-air bomb BBC News, 12 September 2007, Retrieved on March 18, 2008
^ Jump up to:_*a*_ _*b*_ The "Father" of All Bombs Retrieved on March 18, 2008 Military.com
*^* "Don't let the Islamic State slip the noose in Syria". 23 December 2017. Archived from the original on 2017-09-12.
*^* Adrian Blomfield (2007-09-12). "Russian army 'tests the father of all bombs'". _The Daily Telegraph_. London. Archived from the original on 2007-10-13. Retrieved 2007-09-12.
*^* "Российская вакуумная бомба сравнима по мощности с ядерным боеприпасом" (in Russian). NewsRibbon. 2007-09-12. Archived from the original on September 30, 2007. Retrieved 2007-09-12.
*^* _Massive Ordnance Air Blast bomb_ – Aviation Thermobatic Bomb
*^* _(АTBIP) Aviation Thermobatic Bomb with Increased Power _ – Aviation Thermobaric Bomb
*^* "Russian Bomb Claims Qu


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MeFishToo said:


> All NATO units in eastern Europe are preparing for a defensive war with Russia. If that is “officially entering the war in Ukraine” it has been ongoing for years.



Putin has been extending the hand of friendship but no one is ready to shake the hand.

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## PakFactor

khansaheeb said:


> *Russia has these ready, would it be classified as a WMD?:-*
> 
> 
> Father of All Bombs​




I don't know and don't care. I say use whatever you can; the US used MOAB in Afghanistan; this should be permissible. You don't know how well something works in combat unless you use it, _fisabilillah _Kar ka Chalo.

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## khansaheeb

If Russia's close ally is advising it's people to leave then something big must be about to happen, this war must be stopped.






Iran Advises Citizens to Leave Ukraine - Politics news - Tasnim News Agency


TEHRAN (Tasnim) – The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Iran called on the Iranian nationals residing in Ukraine to leave that country for their own safety.




www.tasnimnews.com




Iran Advises Citizens to Leave Ukraine​
October, 21, 2022 - 12:56 
Politics news 






TEHRAN (Tasnim) – The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Iran called on the Iranian nationals residing in Ukraine to leave that country for their own safety.​The Consular Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Iran issued a travel advisory about Ukraine on Friday.
“Considering the escalation of military clashes and increased insecurity in Ukraine, all Iranian nationals are strongly advised to refrain from traveling to that country,” the advisory said.
The department has also seriously called on the Iranian citizens to leave Ukraine to protect their life and safety.
It has also called on the Iranian citizens to remain calm and call the Iranian Embassy in Kyiv when necessary.
The US, France and the UK have called a closed-door Security Council meeting on the alleged use of Iranian suicide drones in Ukraine war.
Russia has warned the United Nations against investigating its use of drones in Ukraine, while Iran has repeatedly rejected the accusations that it has delivered military drones to Russia for use in the Ukraine war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584031957801136131

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> you see part of the effectiveness of shahed or harpy or harop and other design like this is the material you build the body from , those cant be made at home easily , even if you buy all the electronics from AliExpress (honestly i didn't knew they sell chips , taught only commercial boards is in their list) there are some small parts that make the difference . that INS is custom design , you can't get it on aliexpress , the board is custom design , you cant build it in your house as it is several layer not just two layer .and so many small thing . if they invest they can build it as its not that complex but certainly not in a home grade workshop
> 
> 
> business is business , it knew no mother or father.
> we learnt it from west , didn't you guys wanted us to embrace capitalism?


While I didn't agree on earlier points, on an intellectual basis there is no restriction on Iran supplying drones. That much I will agree with you , and Iran could potentially be a supplier to both sides.

But why is Iran denying it drone supplies? Why not hang head high in the air with conviction and basis of their decision to the same level you have it. THats not a trick it learned from the west?

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## Han Patriot

MeFishToo said:


> Im sorry. Your reply sounds like a printout from an Alex Jones broadcast.
> The only reason NATO is labelled a threat by Putin is because ukrainian NATO membership would deny Russia any possible future annexation of ukrainian territory. The russian propaganda narrative is total bullshit. NATO is no threat to russian _territory_ at all.
> Russia doesnt consider Ukraine a brother nation. They wanted another vassal state like Belarus an the other CSTO nations used to be. To bad this russian adventure made it clear to the world the king is naked.
> Good luck with your fleet and imperial ambitions. Now go join the Peoples Liberation Army.



Once you said NATO which attacked multiple sovereign countries without any UN mandate as no threat, I know I cannot save you from your delusion.

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## Viet

What happens in Bachmut?

Russia army and their paid hooligans storming the city for 4 months now.

Ukraine defense still standing






A Ukrainian serviceman reacts as a self-propelled artillery vehicle fires near Bakhmut, Donetsk region, Ukraine, Oct. 22, 2022.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> where i said , Iran drones use ins to hit the target , if they wanted to use INS , they would have been another V1 . they are not , INS is there to help if the connection to satellite is lost , it use that ins to go toward the target , and as soon as it find satellite connection for several second , it fix that ins inaccuracy problem , if again the satellite is lost it again fallback to ins and continue toward target , if again it can connect to satellite well no problem , it fix the coordinate and INS and go toward the target , if no the satellite don't come back , no biggie its only less than 20000$ , sorry children in kindergarten that it fall on your head , your government was too lazy to effectively counter the drone, or just cared about the elites not you.
> 
> about Gepard radar , like any radar it has its limitation . let compare normal drone to F-4 and this drone to F-117 . a question for you do the radars detect them at the same distances?


That’s not new. Kalibr cruise missiles work on the same principle. That’s not a secret, lots of cruise missiles work the same way. They turn off onboard radars to avoid early detection. If Iran drone work so with on/off guidance then ok.
I think you misunderstood. Gepard is a flak tank it is designed to fight deep and very fast flying enemy aircraft and helicopters, not high flying objects. Gepard has 2 radars acquisition radar and fire control radar. Slow flying objects as Iran drones are easy targets at all. Germany has 420 Gepard flak tanks. Ukraine gets the gepards because they are getting aged they are replaced by higher performance flak tanks of Rheinmetall.


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## RescueRanger

More images shared on telegram of POF 122MM HE arty ammunition being used by UA in Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583906519761887233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583853874930397184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583937757814353921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583882632055918592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583880168816660480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583885952325324803

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584097136798359553


Viet said:


> What happens in Bachmut?
> 
> Russia army and their paid hooligans storming the city for 4 months now.
> 
> Ukraine defense still standing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian serviceman reacts as a self-propelled artillery vehicle fires near Bakhmut, Donetsk region, Ukraine, Oct. 22, 2022.



4 months is nothing in a war that lasts more than 100 years.

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583731413601308673
> 
> They got free sausages - or they look like sausages ?


The faces say it all- they will be the next ingredient in the sausage press.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584097505888722944

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> Once you said NATO which attacked multiple sovereign countries without any UN mandate as no threat, I know I cannot save you from your delusion.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584050879014936576
Damn


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584084551915122690
@F-22Raptor

Reactions: Love Love:
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## RescueRanger

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Reason #3679 for why Russia will not win in Ukraine
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583380070197972992
> Meanwhile in Russia:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583224927507083264
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581585563756285952
> Can't even get logs for some reason:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583577173675606016
> Remember it's not racist to call Russian Sub-human when they act like one:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583581733697425408



The first video is definitely an Alpha Vest Guard plate (made in USA) we have field tested these in Pakistan as they were donated to our Anti- Terrorist Squad in Islamabad. The foam you can see on the front is called "Anti Spall Armour"






What makes these inserts superior to any off the shelf or Russian trash is the unique multi-layer bonded plate and anti-spall armour:





Spall liners are a game changer in modular plates:

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584092402310033408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584102018146217984

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584102837851942914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584109790078201856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584096633553555456

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584092671043567616

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## Viet

Natural gas $115 last Friday
Will probably lower to $100 next week.

The Arabs from UAE delivered the first ever hydrogen tank in liquid ammonia to Germany.
The dominance of natural gas is over.

The more Putin blackmails EU, the faster the transition away from Russia gas.






Der Industrieminister der Emirate, Sultan Al Jaber, und Habeck am Hahn.
(Foto: picture alliance/dpa)

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## Vergennes

From "We'll capture Kyiv in 3 days" to "We have to protect Belgorod".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583842594454646785

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## RescueRanger

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Islamophobic Russian getting karmaed in the end. Notice not one Muslim member here will criticize Russian bigotry against their Muslim neighbor.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581754331057262592


Fucking shit show...

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582348312984055809
> lmao kadyrov and his tiktok batallions won't stop to impress me.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582294338217746433
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582346986921275392

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## Dalit

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> *US is officially entering the war with Russia in Ukraine.
> 
> Putin's time is up now.
> 
> Russia is going to be balkanized in the next few months.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CBS MORNINGS
> The U.S. Army's 101st Airborne is practicing for war with Russia just miles from Ukraine's border​
> 
> 
> BY CHARLIE D'AGATA, STEVE BERRIMAN, TUCKER REALS
> OCTOBER 21, 2022 / 11:22 AM / CBS NEWS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Mihail Kogălniceanu, Romania_ — The U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division has been deployed to Europe for the first time in almost 80 years amid soaring tension between Russia and the American-led NATO military alliance. The light infantry unit, nicknamed the "Screaming Eagles," is trained to deploy on any battlefield in the world within hours, ready to fight.
> 
> CBS News joined the division's Deputy Commander, Brigadier General John Lubas, and Colonel Edwin Matthaidess, Commander of the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, on a Black Hawk helicopter for the hour-long ride to the very edge of NATO territory — only around three miles from Romania's border with Ukraine.
> 
> From the moment Russian President Vladimir Putin launched his full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, his forces have advanced northward from the Crimean Peninsula, a Ukrainian region that Moscow illegally seized control of in 2014. For more than seven months, Russian troops have tried to push along the Black Sea coast into the Kherson region, aiming to capture the key Ukrainian port cities of Mykolaiv and Odesa.
> 
> 
> Their goal is to cut off all Ukrainian access to the sea, leaving the country and its military forces landlocked.
> 
> That threat, so close to NATO territory in Romania, is why one of America's most elite air assault divisions has been sent in, with some heavy equipment.
> 
> 
> "We're ready to defend every inch of NATO soil," Lubas told CBS News. "We bring a unique capability, from our air assault capability… We're a light infantry force, but again, we bring that mobility with us, for our aircraft and air assaults."
> 
> Skirting northward along Romania's Black Sea coast, the Black Hawk eventually touched down at a forward operating site where U.S. and Romanian troops were pounding targets during a joint ground and air assault exercise.
> 
> The tank rounds and artillery fire were real. The drill was meant to recreate the battles Ukraine's forces are fighting every day against Russian troops, just across the border. The war games so close to that border are a clear message to Russia and to America's NATO allies, that the U.S. Army is here.
> 
> 
> "The real meaning for me, to have the American troops here, is like if you were to have allies in Normandy before any enemy was there," Romanian Major General Lulian Berdila told CBS News, referring to the landmark World War II battle on France's north coast. The American forces have been establishing a garrison at the Romanian military's air base.
> 
> 
> In all, about 4,700 soldiers from the 101st Airborne's home base in Fort Campbell, Kentucky, have been deployed to reinforce NATO's eastern flank.
> 
> Matthaidess told CBS News that he and his troops were the closest American forces to the fighting in Ukraine. From their vantage point, they've been "closely watching" the Russian forces, "building objectives to practice against" and conducting drills that "replicate exactly what's going on" in the war.
> 
> "It keeps us on our toes," he said.
> 
> The "Screaming Eagles" commanders told CBS News repeatedly that they are always "ready to fight tonight," and while they're there to defend NATO territory, if the fighting escalates or there's any attack on NATO, they're fully prepared to cross the border into Ukraine.








Please papa America. Have mercy.

The funny thing is, this time around CIA didn't use the Godless communist BS to convince us how evil the commies are.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584127698913222657

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## Paul2

BHAN85 said:


> A train bridge is not easy to repair. There are no bridges in all train line?



Over a major river? No.

Small ditches can be filled fast as well


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584135369419030528


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584031957801136131



I wish there were trackers in Washing machines - that map would light up like a christmas tree of stolen washing machines in Russia ( imagine a country so primitive that you have steal a washing machine of all things ........ ).

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## sammuel

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584135369419030528



​
October 23, 20222

Russian military plane crashes into residential building in Siberia, 2 pilots killed - officials​
Reuters

Oct 23 (Reuters) - A Russian fighter plane crashed into a residential building in the Siberian city of Irkutsk on Sunday and the two pilots were killed, officials said.

In a post on Telegram, Irkutsk governor Igor Kobzev said the plane crashed into a two-storey house in the city. The emergencies ministry said the pilots died, but there were no other casualties.

It was the second such incident in six days. Last Monday, a Sukhoi Su-34 fighter plane crashed into an apartment block in the southern city of Yeysk, near Ukraine, and at least 15 people were killed.


Russian news agencies said the plane in Sunday's incident was an Su-30. In a statement, the emergencies ministry said the plane crashed during a test flight.

Footage shared on social media showed what appeared to be several buildings on fire and dense black smoke rising into the sky.










Two pilots killed as Russian fighter jet crashes into Siberian home


A Russian military jet crashed into a residential building in the Siberian city of Irkutsk on Sunday and the two pilots were killed, officials said, the second such fatal incident in six days involving a Sukhoi fighter plane.




www.reuters.com






~

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583781364306178048
Kaboom 👇 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584109790078201856

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584135369419030528



Aircraft maintenance and repair is becoming an issue for the Russian Airforce it seems - .... all their resources are being diverted to support planes in the war itself.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584102837851942914


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584127698913222657



Interesting - pilot was captured it seems. Would love a translation of what he is saying to his commanders. Nothing from video to indicate the impact of the missile.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584096633553555456
The sound is so terrorizing 

The Russian military has seized the initiative again in this conflict...More towns being liberated should be in the news again.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583940845945831424

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584097136798359553
> 
> 
> 4 months is nothing in a war that lasts more than 100 years.



If you’re that interested in prolonging the war why don’t sign yourself and your family up to fight ?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584139584383774721

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584158702378287104


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584139584383774721




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584142861540282371

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584139584383774721



They had plenty of time to eject - does seem to suggest an ejection failure ( maybe someone stole/sold the ejection cartridges? Or maybe the ejection cartridges were painted milk bottles and some one took the funds for themselves... not so hard to believe in todays Russia ... ) if the pilots died in the crash ..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584173433000439810


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Vergennes said:


> From "We'll capture Kyiv in 3 days" to "We have to protect Belgorod".
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583842594454646785


Even the ”dragonteeth” are fake.

This is the real thing. The different teeth are connected and not easily moved.

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## Ali_Baba

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584167364802670593


----------



## Viet

Vladimir Putin would sacrifice 20 million Russian soldiers to win the war with Ukraine and ensure his political survival, an exiled Russian diplomat has said.









Ukraine war: Vladimir Putin would sacrifice 20 million soldiers to win and ensure political survival, exiled diplomat says


Boris Bondarev, who quit Russia's permanent mission at the UN over the Ukraine war, told Beth Rigby that Vladimir Putin is "lucky not smart" and his luck "is over".




news.sky.com

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584181239883317248

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## Ali_Baba

Major explosion kills three at gunpowder factory working 24/7 to make rocket launchers and air defence systems for war on Ukraine​








Major explosion kills three at gunpowder factory in Russia


Perm Gunpowder Plant, which produces Grad and Smerch rocket launch systems for Russian troops, was set ablaze by the strikes. Two of the three people killed were reportedly burned alive.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Oooppsssiiee .......

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584187593906094081


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584115047986434048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584101377609199616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584085756787982336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584085027092324352

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## kingQamaR

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584092402310033408
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584102018146217984




A better guess is that they are not retreating and want those civilians they consider pro-Russian to get out of the way..... also because they will barely be able to feed their soldiers over during the Winter months, let alone supply civilians too. Any civilian remaining behind will be considered anti-Russian and wont receive any food the coming months. Quite a dilemma for the civilians who consider themselves Ukrainian.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584080710192992256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584115902135832576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584106900047548418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584082835995996160

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## PakFactor

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Even the ”dragonteeth” are fake.
> 
> This is the real thing. The different teeth are connected and not easily moved.
> View attachment 888729



Wow. There setting it up in a single file line without covering the opening with another pillar. Who taught them tactics in school must shoot himself dead before Putin does it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584190629571350528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584181685717209089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584185485467213826

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584192894306394112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584186920116293635

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584186961828642821

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584186058232954880

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## Reashot Xigwin

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Even the ”dragonteeth” are fake.
> 
> This is the real thing. The different teeth are connected and not easily moved.
> View attachment 888729


Also they need to be at least waist deep and actually you know staked to the ground. 

The Russian just place precast concrete and call it a day.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584203315814227970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584201632090234881

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Attacks on Iran by a nation in a conflict started by Iran is not terrorism, it is self-defense.


which conflict exactly Iran started ?
don't you think for your comment to become true ,Iran must first start a conflict.
by the way are you aware that our drones and balistic missile don't care much about enemy rasons for its action .



MeFishToo said:


> Fact is the TOW system is going to destroy any armor the russians are going to field on the open plains of Ukraine. Its nothing like youre portraying it.


its exactly what i portray it , a downgrade compared to Javelin.
Its weight more thamn 6-7 time of Javelin , the operator need to keep target on sight , and the need of truck to carry it make it hard to ambush enemy


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584215471557345281


----------



## Hack-Hook

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> No because Sweden sold Saab 2000 AEW&C to Pakistan.
> 
> Show proof that Turkiye is helping Russia or Iran is helping Ukraine.


Sweden didn't sold anything to Yemen , how you explain that


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> which conflict exactly Iran started ?
> don't you think for your comment to become true ,Iran must first start a conflict.
> by the way are you aware that our drones and balistic missile don't care much about enemy rasons for its action .


While Russia started the war, Iran started the conflict between Iran and Ukraine by abandoning its neutrality.
By supporting an illegal war of aggression, Iran is supporting war crimes.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

T-62M upgraded with thermal is on par with M60A3 TTS


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583796679102599171

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## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> Thats not the point. Point is he claimed TOW 2B in top attack couldnt hurt a tank or any armor, just humvees or infantry, which is false. The TOW system is just as effective an anti tank missile as the ukrainian version. He is just deflecting, taking about effective armor penetration, fire and forget, crew based etc. I will bet no infantry unit is carrying a Javelin system around on foot anyway. Its transported by anti tank units in vehicles or stored somewhere in a trench system.


and you failed to provide penetration capabilities of top attack TOW , how much it is ?
let me tell you we tested such system it was only 100mm. Javelin is about 800mm



A.P. Richelieu said:


> While Russia started the war, Iran started the conflict between Iran and Ukraine by abandoning its neutrality.
> By supporting an illegal war of aggression, Iran is supporting war crimes.


no as pointed here , jast practicing NATO and USA textbook , its not our problem ,what russia do with our weapon . we didn't sold them to them to use them in Ukraine

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584210907332083713


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Fact is the TOW system is going to destroy any armor the russians are going to field on the open plains of Ukraine. Its nothing like youre portraying it.
> The TOW system is basically the NATO version of the Stuhna. I think the ukrainians will manage to use it for ambush or static defence as theyve done with the Stuhna.
> Ukraine have recieved 10.000? Javelin missiles and 50.000? NLAW, EC LAW, Matador.. theyll find some use of the TOW systems range.



How are they going to move TOW around with no fuel? Russia bombed all their power plants. No electricity. No oil refining.

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## Hack-Hook

aviator_fan said:


> While I didn't agree on earlier points, on an intellectual basis there is no restriction on Iran supplying drones. That much I will agree with you , and Iran could potentially be a supplier to both sides.
> 
> But why is Iran denying it drone supplies? Why not hang head high in the air with conviction and basis of their decision to the same level you have it. THats not a trick it learned from the west?


russia uses at least 40-50 each day , that is more than iran can ship , it seems the drone is iranian design made in Russia

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584146214202748929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584217580213915649

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> I wish there were trackers in Washing machines - that map would light up like a christmas tree of stolen washing machines in Russia ( imagine a country so primitive that you have steal a washing machine of all things ........ ).


A washing machine retails between 400 and 500 euros on Amazon.de depending on western or China made. That’s a pricy booty. Russia minimum wage is 160 euros per month. If they just steal some washing machines they probably can sell for 1,000 euros apiece on Russia black market.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> That’s not new. Kalibr cruise missiles work on the same principle. That’s not a se
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572590167218884608cret, lots of cruise missiles work the same way. They turn off onboard radars to avoid early detection. If Iran drone work so with on/off guidance then ok.
> I think you misunderstood. Gepard is a flak tank it is designed to fight deep and very fast flying enemy aircraft and helicopters, not high flying objects. Gepard has 2 radars acquisition radar and fire control radar. Slow flying objects as Iran drones are easy targets at all. Germany has 420 Gepard flak tanks. Ukraine gets the gepards because they are getting aged they are replaced by higher performance flak tanks of Rheinmetall.


you see , German Gepard , use S and Ku band radars , netherland ones use X-band radar.
I don't say they can't shootdown drones they detect . I say the problem is detection.
Like all radars they have a tracking ranfe and a detection range , its not fixed for all targets its depend on RCS.
All I say the data published for Gepard is against normal drones not a low RCS one like Shahed-136 . this is Shahed-136 RCS

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572590167218884608
do you think Gepard have the same detection range and engagement range for TB-2 and Gran-2 ?
as i said , its how air-defence had problem with engaging F-117 but there was no such problem with F-4
if Gepard is to be effective it must be used in hundreds not just several hand me down you say germany have 420 , are they ready to build another 420 and hand all 840 to Ukraine ?


----------



## Paul2

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Even the ”dragonteeth” are fake.
> 
> This is the real thing. The different teeth are connected and not easily moved.
> View attachment 888729



They were cross-linked as well. With WW2 explosives, high strengths concretes would've taken quite an effort to blast


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> you see , German Gepard , use S and Ku band radars , netherland ones use X-band radar.
> I don't say they can't shootdown drones they detect . I say the problem is detection.
> Like all radars they have a tracking ranfe and a detection range , its not fixed for all targets its depend on RCS.
> All I say the data published for Gepard is against normal drones not a low RCS one like Shahed-136 . this is Shahed-136 RCS
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572590167218884608
> do you think Gepard have the same detection range and engagement range for TB-2 and Gran-2 ?
> as i said , its how air-defence had problem with engaging F-117 but there was no such problem with F-4
> if Gepard is to be effective it must be used in hundreds not just several hand me down you say germany have 420 , are they ready to build another 420 and hand all 840 to Ukraine ?


Ah come on, the difference between s band and x band radar is the difference between 15cm and 3cm. You are saying Iran drones are smaller than 15cm?


----------



## Paul2

Hack-Hook said:


> you see , German Gepard , use S and Ku band radars , netherland ones use X-band radar.
> I don't say they can't shootdown drones they detect . I say the problem is detection.
> Like all radars they have a tracking ranfe and a detection range , its not fixed for all targets its depend on RCS.
> All I say the data published for Gepard is against normal drones not a low RCS one like Shahed-136 . this is Shahed-136 RCS
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572590167218884608
> do you think Gepard have the same detection range and engagement range for TB-2 and Gran-2 ?
> as i said , its how air-defence had problem with engaging F-117 but there was no such problem with F-4
> if Gepard is to be effective it must be used in hundreds not just several hand me down you say germany have 420 , are they ready to build another 420 and hand all 840 to Ukraine ?



Gepard range is 3-4km. At 4km it's hard to not to detect even a bird

But you need quite a number of them to be effective

At 4km it's really only a point defence system, not area defence.


----------



## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584139584383774721


did really what i think I see happened , the pilot was trying to do a loop and failed ?



Ali_Baba said:


> They had plenty of time to eject - does seem to suggest an ejection failure ( maybe someone stole/sold the ejection cartridges? Or maybe the ejection cartridges were painted milk bottles and some one took the funds for themselves... not so hard to believe in todays Russia ... ) if the pilots died in the crash ..


they were upside down don't knew if the Russian ejection sit designed to operate in that position


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584218449215074305

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## _Nabil_

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584106900047548418


This hub is to supply Europe with Gaz, looks like Europe is against it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580970803600175104


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> While Russia started the war, Iran started the conflict between Iran and Ukraine by abandoning its neutrality.
> By supporting an illegal war of aggression, Iran is supporting war crimes.


since when the party who sell weapon is responsible on how it us used ?

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## _Nabil_

This is Big 🤣😂

Pelossi : When I hear people talk about inflation...we have to change the subject


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584200479395164160

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Ah come on, the difference between s band and x band radar is the difference between 15cm and 3cm. You are saying Iran drones are smaller than 15cm?


come on , i assure you F-35, F-117 and B-2 are far bigger than 3cm or 15 cm but well , you are welcome to detect them with any X-band or S-band radar in any meaningful distance .


Paul2 said:


> Gepard range is 3-4km. At 4km it's hard to not to detect even a bird
> 
> But you need quite a number of them to be effective
> 
> At 4km it's really only a point defence system, not area defence.


if its 4km against TB-2 the question is how much it is against Shahed-136 ? the radar itself is not exactly an AN/MPQ-53/65
these are Gepard radars ,do you think they are the latest nato can offer


----------



## kingQamaR

Hack-Hook said:


> since when the party who sell weapon is responsible on how it us used ?



So Iranians can go into Ukraine to support Russia how operate drones, hitting civilians deaths , there will be severe consequences for both Russia and Iran your not just a bystander now are you.


----------



## Hack-Hook

kingQamaR said:


> So Iranians can go into Ukraine to support Russia how operate drones, hitting civilians deaths , there will be severe consequences for both Russia and Iran your not just a bystander now are you.


never proven , never shown a single evidence . just baseless claim


----------



## kingQamaR

Hack-Hook said:


> never proven , never shown a single evidence . just baseless claim



Two weeks ago, lying Iran denied supplying Russia with any weapon Secret's out now. Admit you bit off more than you could chew and end this.


----------



## Hack-Hook

kingQamaR said:


> Two weeks ago, lying Iran denied supplying Russia with any weapon Secret's out now. Admit you bit off more than you could chew and end this.


Iran denied selling any weapon to Russia for the purpose of use in Ukraine , by the way by the amount of Gran-2 Russia uses its clear they are manufactured in Russia.

and so you admit you have no proof only make some baseless claims


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> and you failed to provide penetration capabilities of top attack TOW , how much it is ?
> let me tell you we tested such system it was only 100mm. Javelin is about 800mm
> 
> 
> no as pointed here , jast practicing NATO and USA textbook , its not our problem ,what russia do with our weapon . we didn't sold them to them to use them in Ukraine


It does not matter.
If You deliver weapons to a belligerent party in a war, then you are no longer neutral. This means that the other side can take every measure in the book to stop your deliveries. 
Russia can try to stop Western deliveries of weapons to Ukraine within NATO borders as NATO is not neutral, but is well aware of the consequences.
Ukraine however might reason that the incremental drawback of Iran joining isso small that getting even is more important.



Paul2 said:


> They were cross-linked as well. With WW2 explosives, high strengths concretes would've taken quite an effort to blast
> 
> View attachment 888773


Yes, that was what i meant by ”connected”.


----------



## kingQamaR

Hack-Hook said:


> Iran denied selling any weapon to Russia for the purpose of use in Ukraine , by the way by the amount of Gran-2 Russia uses its clear they are manufactured in Russia.
> 
> and so you admit you have no proof only make some baseless claims



Be patient, They'll be easy to track and caught - my sources are from different news outlets


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584164368543256577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584239998613983232

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> since when the party who sell weapon is responsible on how it us used ?


A country is normally not responsible for how weapons they sold are used.

Iran is abandoning its neutrality by delivering weapons to a belligerent.
It can therefore legally be attacked by the other side including allies.

Since Russias war is an illegal war of aggression, which is a violation of the UN charter, Irans weapons deliveries is an affront to the UN, and there may be consequences. 

My favourite idea is for the US to lease Navy Ships to Ukraine complete with crew which run a blockade on Iran. Any oil tanker with Iranian Oil should be grabbed and the oil sold for the benefit of Ukraine,

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

_Nabil_ said:


> This is Big 🤣😂
> 
> Pelossi : When I hear people talk about inflation...we have to change the subject
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584200479395164160



Inflation happens because the US prints trillions of dollars a year. Increasing the amount of US dollars in the world.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

RescueRanger said:


> More images shared on telegram of POF 122MM HE arty ammunition being used by UA in Ukraine.
> 
> View attachment 888684
> 
> 
> View attachment 888683





Proud to be a Pakistani.

Russia needs to be balkanized immediately.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584228118113316867


A.P. Richelieu said:


> A country is normally not responsible for how weapons they sold are used.
> 
> Iran is abandoning its neutrality by delivering weapons to a belligerent.
> It can therefore legally be attacked by the other side including allies.
> 
> Since Russias war is an illegal war of aggression, which is a violation of the UN charter, Irans weapons deliveries is an affront to the UN, and there may be consequences.
> 
> My favourite idea is for the US to lease Navy Ships to Ukraine complete with crew which run a blockade on Iran. Any oil tanker with Iranian Oil should be grabbed and the oil sold for the benefit of Ukraine,



The US does not respect international law. The US steals oil in Syria. The US says. Might makes right.

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584228118113316867
> 
> 
> The US does not respect international law. The US steals oil in Syria. The US says. Might makes right.



Haha …. Your hilarious 

Putin's newly appointed General Surovikin is most likely going to turn Kherson into another Aleppo.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584254392550977536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584203179910045696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584198832510095361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584162957675859968

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## Reashot Xigwin

Sry in advance if someone posted this already

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584187919509880833


----------



## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> A washing machine retails between 400 and 500 euros on Amazon.de depending on western or China made. That’s a pricy booty. Russia minimum wage is 160 euros per month. If they just steal some washing machines they probably can sell for 1,000 euros apiece on Russia black market.



Might be cheaper to end this war by offering a free washing machine to each Russian soldier if they up arms and surrender for their free ticket for a washing machine that can be redeemed  ...

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It does not matter.
> If You deliver weapons to a belligerent party in a war, then you are no longer neutral. This means that the other side can take every measure in the book to stop your deliveries.
> Russia can try to stop Western deliveries of weapons to Ukraine within NATO borders as NATO is not neutral, but is well aware of the consequences.
> Ukraine however might reason that the incremental drawback of Iran joining isso small that getting even is more important.


you are completely wrong on that.



kingQamaR said:


> Be patient, They'll be easy to track and caught - my sources are from different news outlets


well , so till then, there is no Iranian personnel in ukraine



kingQamaR said:


> Be patient, They'll be easy to track and caught - my sources are from different news outlets


well , so till then, there is no Iranian personnel in ukraine


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Iran is abandoning its neutrality by delivering weapons to a belligerent.
> It can therefore legally be attacked by the other side including allies.


again completely wrong according to international laws and norms.
first there is no international rule , sanction or anything to prevent Iran export weapon to anyone we like or Russia to import weapon from Iran.
second the amoount of the uav neing used show that they actually are manufactured in russsia not delivered from iran,they are only Iranian by design


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Since Russias war is an illegal war of aggression, which is a violation of the UN charter, Irans weapons deliveries is an affront to the UN, and there may be consequences.


not really until UNSC say so


A.P. Richelieu said:


> My favourite idea is for the US to lease Navy Ships to Ukraine complete with crew which run a blockade on Iran. Any oil tanker with Iranian Oil should be grabbed and the oil sold for the benefit of Ukraine,


and may favorite part is what will happen to those poor sailors

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## The SC

The dirty nuclear bomb and the Kakhovka dam..


----------



## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> and you failed to provide penetration capabilities of top attack TOW , how much it is ?
> let me tell you we tested such system it was only 100mm. Javelin is about 800mm
> 
> 
> no as pointed here , jast practicing NATO and USA textbook , its not our problem ,what russia do with our weapon . we didn't sold them to them to use them in Ukraine


Sure you did. Ive already shown you a test of a TOW 2B against a T72. Just scroll back to see the result.



Viet said:


> Ah come on, the difference between s band and x band radar is the difference between 15cm and 3cm. You are saying Iran drones are smaller than 15cm?


These drones are the size of a flying car.


----------



## Hack-Hook

MeFishToo said:


> Sure you did. Ive already shown you a test of a TOW 2B against a T72. Just scroll back to see the result.
> 
> 
> These drones are the size of a flying car.


T72-a without era , and 28cm at thickest point when you look at it from top but only 80mm at the nose of turret , and average of 200mm and worst of all its not a composite armor , its cast Iron
as i said the penetration was around 100mm , a javelin have at least 750mm of penetration 
and


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> you are completely wrong on that.
> 
> 
> well , so till then, there is no Iranian personnel in ukraine
> 
> 
> well , so till then, there is no Iranian personnel in ukraine
> 
> again completely wrong according to international laws and norms.
> first there is no international rule , sanction or anything to prevent Iran export weapon to anyone we like or Russia to import weapon from Iran.
> second the amoount of the uav neing used show that they actually are manufactured in russsia not delivered from iran,they are only Iranian by design
> 
> not really until UNSC say so
> 
> and may favorite part is what will happen to those poor sailors



This is what the Red Cross has to say about neutrality - for the second time.





so Iran is no longer neutral.
As a non-neutral power supporting an illegal war, you think there will be no consequences…
There are plenty of consequences that does not need to involve the UNSC.

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## MeFishToo

Hack-Hook said:


> T72-a without era , and 28cm at thickest point when you look at it from top but only 80mm at the nose of turret , and average of 200mm and worst of all its not a composite armor , its cast Iron
> as i said the penetration was around 100mm , a javelin have at least 750mm of penetration
> and


All these statistics of armor penetration are irrelevant using top attack against 50 years old sovjet made equipment. What ever the ukrainians are facing in a defensive position, the TOW system is going to be effective 3.000+ meters down range. 
Im not going to waste anymore time on this.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

A.P. Richelieu said:


> This is what the Red Cross has to say about neutrality - for the second time.
> View attachment 888818
> 
> so Iran is no longer neutral.
> As a non-neutral power supporting an illegal war, you think there will be no consequences…
> There are plenty of consequences that does not need to involve the UNSC.




Red Cross and Vatican helped thousands of Nazis to escape​This article is more than 11 years old
Research shows how travel documents ended up in hands of the likes of Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele and Klaus Barbie in the postwar chaos




SS officers at Auschwitz in 1944. From left: Richard Baer, who became the commandant of Auschwitz in May 1944, Josef Mengele, commandant of Birkenau Josef Kramer, hidden, and the former commandant of Auschwitz Rudolf Höss, foreground; the man on the right is unidentified. Photograph: AP

Dalya Alberge
Wed 25 May 2011 15.31 BST


49
The Red Cross and the Vatican both helped thousands of Nazi war criminals and collaborators to escape after the second world war, according to a book that pulls together evidence from unpublished documents.
The Red Cross has previously acknowledged that its efforts to help refugees were used by Nazis because administrators were overwhelmed, but the research suggests the numbers were much higher than thought.

Gerald Steinacher, a research fellow at Harvard University, was given access to thousands of internal documents in the archives of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC). The documents include Red Cross travel documents issued mistakenly to Nazis in the postwar chaos.
Advertisement

They throw light on how and why mass murderers such as Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele and Klaus Barbie and thousands of others evaded capture by the allies.
By comparing lists of wanted war criminals to travel documents, Steinacher says Britain and Canada alone inadvertently took in around 8,000 former Waffen-SS members in 1947, many on the basis of valid documents issued mistakenly.
The documents – which are discussed in Steinacher's book Nazis on the Run: How Hitler's henchmen fled justice – offer a significant insight into Vatican thinking, particularly, because its own archives beyond 1939 are still closed. The Vatican has consistently refused to comment.
Steinacher believes the Vatican's help was based on a hoped-for revival of European Christianity and dread of the Soviet Union. But through the Vatican Refugee Commission, war criminals were knowingly provided with false identities.
The Red Cross, overwhelmed by millions of refugees, relied substantially on Vatican references and the often cursory Allied military checks in issuing travel papers, known as 10.100s.
It believed it was primarily helping innocent refugees although correspondence between Red Cross delegations in Genoa, Rome and Geneva shows it was aware Nazis were getting through.
"Although the ICRC has publicly apologised, its action went well beyond helping a few people," said Steinacher.
Steinacher says the documents indicate that the Red Cross, mostly in Rome or Genoa, issued at least 120,000 of the 10.100s, and that 90% of ex-Nazis fled via Italy, mostly to Spain, and North and South America – notably Argentina.
Former SS members often mixed with genuine refugees and presented themselves as stateless ethnic Germans to gain transit papers. Jews trying to get to Palestine via Italy were sometimes smuggled over the border with escaping Nazis.
Steinacher says that individual Red Cross delegations issued war criminals with 10.100s "out of sympathy for individuals … political attitude, or simply because they were overburdened". Stolen documents were also used to whisk Nazis to safety. He said: "They were really in a dilemma. It was difficult. It wanted to get rid of the job. Nobody wanted to do it."
The Red Cross refused to comment directly on Steinacher's findings but the organisation says on its website: "The ICRC has previously deplored the fact that Eichmann and other Nazi criminals misused its travel documents to cover their tracks."









Red Cross and Vatican helped thousands of Nazis to escape


Research shows how travel documents ended up in hands of the likes of Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele and Klaus Barbie in the postwar chaos




www.theguardian.com


----------



## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584085996421156866


----------



## jamal18

1. A lot of info about a possible Ukrainian false flag nuclear attack. Either a nuclear warhead or a 'dirty bomb' in Ukraines hands is about to be detonated and blamed on Russia.

2. A lot of Radio chatter about Belarus. With the end of the 'SMO' and the war moving to a new level, it seems that an occupation of Kiev is the only way. A Russian attack from Belarus to take Kiev looks on the cards.

3. Petraeus, considered Biden's unofficial spokesman, said that the US might lead an 'international' force into Ukraine. Large number of US and Nato forces now located near the Ukrainian border.

It doesn't seem to be de-escalating.

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## ziaulislam



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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

jamal18 said:


> 1. A lot of info about a possible Ukrainian false flag nuclear attack. Either a nuclear warhead or a 'dirty bomb' in Ukraines hands is about to be detonated and blamed on Russia.
> 
> 2. A lot of Radio chatter about Belarus. With the end of the 'SMO' and the war moving to a new level, it seems that an occupation of Kiev is the only way. A Russian attack from Belarus to take Kiev looks on the cards.
> 
> 3. Petraeus, considered Biden's unofficial spokesman, said that the US might lead an 'international' force into Ukraine. Large number of US and Nato forces now located near the Ukrainian border.
> 
> It doesn't seem to be de-escalating.



NATO is all trained and deployed on the Ukrainian border.

They just need an excuse to enter Ukraine war officially.

NATO has realized that this is the best opportunity to balkanize Russia.

Internationally countries are either supporting NATO or refraining from supporting Russia.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

jamal18 said:


> 1. A lot of info about a possible Ukrainian false flag nuclear attack. Either a nuclear warhead or a 'dirty bomb' in Ukraines hands is about to be detonated and blamed on Russia.
> 
> 2. A lot of Radio chatter about Belarus. With the end of the 'SMO' and the war moving to a new level, it seems that an occupation of Kiev is the only way. A Russian attack from Belarus to take Kiev looks on the cards.
> 
> 3. Petraeus, considered Biden's unofficial spokesman, said that the US might lead an 'international' force into Ukraine. Large number of US and Nato forces now located near the Ukrainian border.
> 
> It doesn't seem to be de-escalating.


Russia is “escalating“ by words. Your first two points are russian propaganda and the third is taken out of context. Petraeus was giving his opion as to what would happen if Russia were going to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584281767145779200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584268592937594880


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584192894306394112




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584185485467213826

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584265648389390336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584289404729757696

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> so Iran is no longer neutral.
> As a non-neutral power supporting an illegal war, you think there will be no consequences…
> There are plenty of consequences that does not need to involve the UNSC.


sorry red cross don't define the rules 
and as its said the drones are made in Russia.
a question for you have you guys ever found one time the drones being loaded or unloaded from airplane
and no there is no consequence in supporting wars. 
what you want to do sanction those who are sanctioned for 3rd or 4th time?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584299349751697408
Russian losses now at 7,500

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584031957801136131


More Russian war crimes.


----------



## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> A better guess is that they are not retreating and want those civilians they consider pro-Russian to get out of the way..... also because they will barely be able to feed their soldiers over during the Winter months, let alone supply civilians too. Any civilian remaining behind will be considered anti-Russian and wont receive any food the coming months. Quite a dilemma for the civilians who consider themselves Ukrainian.


There were 2 orders in Kherson, each contradict to the other.

There is order for Civilian general evacuation.
There is an order for Martial Law.

Civilian in Kherson cannot go outside because of the Martial Law, which mean they cannot be evacuated. 

So, its easy to tell only people who are Russian (who moved to Kherson to help administrating Kherson after they took it back in March) and Russian collaborator are allowed to leave. 

That points to 1 or two points.

1.) Russia wants to pull out completely from Kherson and take their people out of there.
2.) Russia wants to fight it out in Kherson and using Ukrainian as meat shield. 

But judging from the fact they are moving heavy equipment out, it usually mean point to a strategic withdraw.

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## Vergennes

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584265648389390336
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584289404729757696








Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2


A country is normally not responsible for how weapons they sold are used. Iran is abandoning its neutrality by delivering weapons to a belligerent. It can therefore legally be attacked by the other side including allies. Since Russias war is an illegal war of aggression, which is a violation...



defence.pk





That's the second time you are posting this video maybe you should do sometimes a little "check" before posting the same video but from different twitter sources.... posting it 40x times won't make it 40x times.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Haha …. Your hilarious
> 
> Putin's newly appointed General Surovikin is most likely going to turn Kherson into another Aleppo.


Only this time it's the Russian who is in "Aleppo"....

They don't have much to stop a Ukrainian Advance in kherson, technically Ukraine can bombard Kherson day and night with even D-30 to turn the city into rubble and the Russian in it. As I said about a month ago, they didn't do that to try to envelope and cut off the city on three side.

The Russian is going to lose Kherson very soon. The troop there is completely at the mercy of the Ukrainian force. How ever many troop Russian can extract is the number that is going to be saved, and it will not be full 25,000 reported in the region.


----------



## jhungary

jamal18 said:


> 1. A lot of info about a possible Ukrainian false flag nuclear attack. Either a nuclear warhead or a 'dirty bomb' in Ukraines hands is about to be detonated and blamed on Russia.
> 
> 2. A lot of Radio chatter about Belarus. With the end of the 'SMO' and the war moving to a new level, it seems that an occupation of Kiev is the only way. A Russian attack from Belarus to take Kiev looks on the cards.
> 
> 3. Petraeus, considered Biden's unofficial spokesman, said that the US might lead an 'international' force into Ukraine. Large number of US and Nato forces now located near the Ukrainian border.
> 
> It doesn't seem to be de-escalating.


I don't really know what you are smoking but I wanted some....

There *ARE NO NORTHERN FRONT*. Russia tried it back in February with 100,000 troop and full equipment on an unprepared Ukrainian who only have 2 Brigade in the entire front. And that got beaten back. And you are telling me that 90,000 joint Russian - Belarus troop can make a different with most of their armor stripped to use in the East can attack a Fortified Ukrainian position since April with 8 Brigades in the area with another 2 Brigade reserved in Lviv and Poland Border??

Some Ukrainian cable even wanted Russia to invade from the North, so it can give them the excuse so they can move into Belarus and establish a DMZ with the border. 

Again, tell me what you are smoking because I really wanted some.

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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> Only this time it's the Russian who is in "Aleppo"....
> 
> They don't have much to stop a Ukrainian Advance in kherson, technically Ukraine can bombard Kherson day and night with even D-30 to turn the city into rubble and the Russian in it. As I said about a month ago, they didn't do that to try to envelope and cut off the city on three side.
> 
> The Russian is going to lose Kherson very soon. The troop there is completely at the mercy of the Ukrainian force. How ever many troop Russian can extract is the number that is going to be saved, and it will not be full 25,000 reported in the region.



And Russia wil have to leave a lot of heavy equipment behind in Kherson as thge pontoon bridge wont be able to carry the bigger stuff over(if it is still standing that is..)

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> And Russia wil have to leave a lot of heavy equipment behind in Kherson as thge pontoon bridge wont be able to carry the bigger stuff over(if it is still standing that is..)


An Ukrainian friend of mind told me they are expecting another generous Russian donation after Kherson is liberated.

And he is expecting that to make what happened in Kharkiv like a child play. You are talking about thousand of tanks, APC/IFV and artillery piece, all of which are going to leave behind. They can ferry truck and car and some mobile piece but since the main bridge is out and the Russian is relying heavily on Pontoon Bridge and Ferry, you can't take everything out.

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## ziaulislam

Russia may be pushed for tactical nukes and west would do nothing..

Ukriane will be loser in the end..

Russia through prolonged sanctions that won't matter a lot for India or China..they won't give up on cheap gas

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## jhungary

Joke of the day on Telegram

Russia is using the Special Military Operation to make money from selling Stock Footage

You can't beat a real-life Fighter Jet ejection video with Michael Bay CGI stuff. This one shot cost 15 million to make

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## Hassan Al-Somal

kingQamaR said:


> So Iranians can go into Ukraine to support Russia how operate drones, hitting civilians deaths , there will be severe consequences for both Russia and Iran your not just a bystander now are you.




But there are other countries who supply weapons to Ukraine, and those weapons kill Russians in the Russia mainland and also in the Donbas and Southern Ukraine. So there should be consequences for those countries as well, don't you think? They aren't just bystanders.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584317606244147202

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## khansaheeb

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584050879014936576
> Damn
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584084551915122690
> @F-22Raptor


WTF, this is crazy stuff straight out of a comedy movie.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584292545378406400

Reactions: Like Like:
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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584278311097708546

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584314367973429248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584310578427805696


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584299473596870656

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## Hassan Al-Somal

It seems NATO came to realize the inevitable Russian military victory over the Ukrainian forces, and they've opted to directly interfere. This is World War III. There is no way Russia will easily accept a defeat in Ukraine. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584185560796913665

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems NATO came to realize the inevitable Russian military over the Ukrainian forces, and they've opted to directly interfere. This is World War III. There is no way Russia will easily accept a defeat in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584185560796913665



US forces have been conducting exercises in Europe for decades.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 23​Oct 23, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*By Mason Clark
October 23, 5:30pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
ISW is publishing an abbreviated campaign update today, October 23. This report focuses on Russian Defense Minister Shoigu's several calls with his western counterparts and preposterous claims that Ukraine is preparing a false-flag “dirty bomb” attack against Russia, likely to pressure Ukraine into concessions and intimidate NATO. On the battlefield, Ukrainian forces conducted further offensive operations in northeastern Ukraine, and Russian forces continued to set conditions for a withdrawal from Kherson. Those developments are summarized briefly and will be covered in more detail tomorrow.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu likely sought to slow or suspend Western military aid to Ukraine and possibly weaken the NATO alliance in scare-mongering calls with several NATO defense ministers on October 23. *Shoigu separately called his counterparts from France, Turkey, the United Kingdom, and the United States on October 23, claiming that Ukraine is preparing to conduct a false-flag attack using a dirty bomb (a conventional explosive laced with radioactive material that is not a nuclear weapon) to accuse Russia of using weapons of mass destruction.[1] Russian state media amplified this false and ridiculous claim.[2] Russian Ministry of Defense reports on the calls contain slight differences; they state that Shoigu discussed a claimed “steady tendency towards further, uncontrolled escalation” in Ukraine in the call with his French counterpart; discussed the “situation in Ukraine” and made false claims that Ukraine is preparing to use a dirty bomb in his calls with the United Kingdom, France, and Turkey; and simply discussed the situation in Ukraine without reference to a dirty bomb in his conversation with US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin. Shoigu last spoke with Secretary Austin on October 21. Representatives from the United States, United Kingdom, and Ukraine categorically denied and condemned Shoigu’s false allegations, and US Secretary Austin called his UK counterpart, Ben Wallace, following the calls with Shoigu.[3] France and Turkey have not issued formal statements as of this writing.
*The Kremlin is unlikely to be preparing an imminent false-flag dirty bomb attack. *Shoigu’s claims further a longstanding Russian information campaign. The Kremlin has repeatedly claimed that Western states will help Ukraine conduct a false-flag WMD attack since the earliest stages of its invasion of Ukraine in February. The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed it had information the US was “preparing provocations to accuse the Russian Armed Forces of using chemical, biological, or tactical nuclear weapons” in April.[4] Putin claimed in his pre-invasion speech on February 24 that Ukraine was preparing for a nuclear attack against Russia, and Russian state disinformation outlets repeatedly claimed Western states were supporting Ukraine’s development of nuclear weapons and planning false-flag attacks.[5]
*Shoigu’s claims likely do not portend Russian preparations to use non-strategic nuclear weapons in Ukraine either. *ISW previously stated on September 30 that “ISW cannot forecast the point at which Putin would decide to use nuclear weapons. Such a decision would be inherently personal, but Putin’s stated red lines for nuclear weapon use have already been crossed in this war several times over without any Russian nuclear escalation.”[6] Russia does not “need,” under formal Russian nuclear doctrine, a further event to justify nuclear weapons use.[7] Ukraine is not apparently on the verge of tripping some new Russian redline, on the other hand, that might cause Putin to use non-strategic nuclear weapons against it at this time. Shoigu’s comments are thus unlikely to presage a nuclear terror attack against one or more major Ukrainian population centers or critical infrastructure in hopes of shocking Ukraine into surrender or the West into cutting off aid to Ukraine. Such attacks would be highly unlikely to force Ukraine or the West to surrender, as Ukraine’s government and people have repeatedly demonstrated their will to continue fighting, and the West would find it very challenging simply to surrender in the face of such horrific acts because of the precedent such surrender would set.
Shoigu’s calls—and Russian state media’s amplification of false dirty bomb threats—are therefore likely intended to intimidate Western states into cutting or limiting support for Ukraine as Russia faces continued military setbacks and the likely loss of western Kherson by the end of the year. ISW has assessed since May that Putin seeks to force Ukraine to accept his terms and deter continued Western support for Ukraine through nuclear brinksmanship.[8] The recipients of Shoigu’s calls are also notable. The Kremlin has repeatedly framed the United States and the United Kingdom as Ukraine’s primary backers and the enablers of what it claims are aggressive policies toward Russia, while France and Turkey have (to varying degrees) framed themselves as mediators in the conflict. Shoigu’s round of calls was likely further Russian saber-rattling to intimidate Ukraine’s Western supporters and possibly widen fissures within the NATO alliance, not condition setting for imminent nuclear use.
*Key inflections in ongoing military operations on October 23:*

*Russian authorities likely cut internet access in Kherson City on October 22 to limit local reporting of Russian evacuations to the east bank of the Dnipro River.[9] Russian sources claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian ground attacks in northwestern Kherson Oblast.[10]*
*Ukrainian and Russian sources reported fighting near Siversk, Soledar, Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and Marinka in eastern Ukraine.[11] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian ground attacks in western Donetsk Oblast.[12]*
*Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations in the direction of Kreminna and Svatove.[13]*
*Russian forces struck Zaporizhzhia City, Mykolaiv City, and other areas in Mykolaiv Oblast with Shahed 136 drones and S-300 missiles.[14] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces targeted Nikopol and Marhanets with multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) strikes.[15]*
*A spokesperson for the Ukrainian Air Force Command claimed that Ukrainian forces have shot down a total of 273 Iranian-provided Shahed-136 drones since Russia began using them in Ukraine on September 13.[16]*
*A Ukrainian government source reported that Iranian instructors in Belarus (in addition to previously reported instructors in Crimea) aided Russian forces in the coordination of previous Shahed-136 drone strikes against Kyiv Oblast and northern and western oblasts in Ukraine.[17]*
*Russian outlets continued to set conditions to blame Ukraine for the destruction of the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant, which Russian forces will likely destroy to slow advancing Ukrainian forces[18][19]*
*Russian sources widely discussed the construction of defensive positions in Kursk Oblast.[20]*
*A Ukrainian source reported that Russian authorities in Krasnodar Krai have “indefinitely” extended the “vacations” (meaning forced abductions as part of an ethnic cleansing campaign) of children from Enerhodar, Zaporizhia Oblast.[21]*
*Russian sources reported that private businesses are offering to train mobilized men on privately owned military and medical equipment in exchange for money.[22] Another Russian fighter aircraft crashed into a two-story building in Novo-Lenino, Irkutsk Oblast.[23]*












[1] https://****/mod_russia/21117; https://****/mod_russia/21118; https://****/mod_russia/21124; https://****/mod_russia/21126.
[2] https://ria dot ru/20221023/provokatsiya-1825967691.html; https://****/boris_rozhin/68219; https://****/rt_special/1916.
[3] https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1584200202948612096?s=20&t=LbM0tNaw...; https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1584201364259115008?s=20&t=LbM0t...; https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1584257292551491585?s=20&t=Lb... https://twitter.com/SecDef/status/1584268803642654721?s=20&t=j-i_UUudCVE....
[4] https://tass.com/defense/1442031.
[5] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/warning-update-russia-may-cond....
[6] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/special-report-assessing-p....
[7] https://rusemb dot org dot uk/press/2029#:~:text=25.,with%20the%20Collective%20Security%20Treaty; https://globalsecurityreview.com/nuclear-de-escalation-russias-deterrenc....
[8] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-annexation-occupie...; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/special-report-assessing-p....
[9]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583869885171761153;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584215908733837312; https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/10/23/blokuyut-zvyazok-v-khersoni/
[10] https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/583; https://****/mod_russia/21119; https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/582
[11] https://****/rybar/40526; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02Lg4cBCKLhpZAD6gWRX...; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02HJ96rqxm3m8xPQhHPJ...; https://****/wargonzo/8836
[12] https://****/mod_russia/21119
[13] https://****/mod_russia/21119 ; https://****/rybar/40517 ; https://****/vysokygovorit/9763 ; https://****/wargonzo/8836 ;
[14]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=810536600200102




; https://****/vilkul/2141; https://****/zoda_gov_ua/14136; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02Lg4cBCKLhpZAD6gWRX...
[15] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02Lg4cBCKLhpZAD6gWRX...; https://****/Yevtushenko_E/1136 ; https://****/dnipropetrovskaODA/2222 ; https://****/dnipropetrovskaODA/2225;
[16] 



[17] https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/10/23/v-bilorusi-pomicheni-iranski-instruktory/
[18] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02KyRpWLQGQ6DjSeAwCm...
[19] https://****/vrogov/5721 ; https://****/notes_veterans/6159
[20] https://****/readovkanews/45127 ; https://****/grey_zone/15448; https://****/epoddubny/13287; https://****/rybar/40524 ; https://****/boris_rozhin/68205
[21] https://****/orlovdmytroEn/1184
[22] https://****/Sladkov_plus/6536
[23] https://****/andriyshTime/3905 ;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584134182841643008 ;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584135662508572678 ; https://twitter.com/auditor_ya/status/1584159618875371520 https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1584139859689553922; https://****/smotri_media/27918; https://****/smotri_media/27922; https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1584142937197146112; https://****/smotri_media/27933; https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1584134837988134919; https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1584137062910869505; https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1584135268533039105


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

This "mobilization" isn't looking too good.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> NATO is all trained and deployed on the Ukrainian border.
> 
> They just need an excuse to enter Ukraine war officially.
> 
> NATO has realized that this is the best opportunity to balkanize Russia.
> 
> Internationally countries are either supporting NATO or refraining from supporting Russia.



What? NATO troops are going to run into some nuclear fallout area? I don't think so.

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## Hamartia Antidote

ziaulislam said:


> Russia may be pushed for tactical nukes and west would do nothing..



What are they going to target? Ukraine doesn't mass their troops. Plus Russia is downwind of Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584278311097708546





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584277434912108545

Israel is playing both sides. They're very good at duplicity and doublespeak.

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## gambit

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But there are other countries who supply weapons to Ukraine, and those weapons kill Russians in the Russia mainland and also in the Donbas and Southern Ukraine. So there should be consequences for those countries as well, don't you think? They aren't just bystanders.


You are correct. Not being facetious but you are correct. Any country whose government either give of its own military resources and/or actively facilitate the transport of military resources to Ukraine has taken a side. The consequences are up to Russia to create. Given the sorry performance of the Russian military, I would not wait too long for Russia to do anything. The Russian military must take care of Ukraine first, secure Ukraine meaning make sure Ukraine cannot fight any more, rebuild itself, then wage war against Ukraine's allies. Currently, no one is confident Russia can do the first item.

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> View attachment 888687


How come the people behind that dude looks kinda plump? The power of propaganda, not saying the Serbs were saints, but that does not mean anyone can just invade a sovereign country without UN mandate.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584283663335710720
On one hand, they tell us Russia is running out of weapons; on the other hand, they tell us "Russia is taking over the world". Lying and doublespeak are the norm for today's Western politicians.

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## gambit

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/524926582335754240

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Israel's doublespeak is getting busted. Their support to Ukraine is coming to the open. 

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572744486928928768*

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584380109771137026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584369178307309568

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584242285944139776

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> How come the people behind that dude looks kinda plump? The power of propaganda, not saying the Serbs were saints, but that does not mean anyone can just invade a sovereign country without UN mandate.


"That one Jew in a concentration camp looks fine."
~Han Patriot.

Another cigarette incident. This time in an Arms factory


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> There were 2 orders in Kherson, each contradict to the other.
> 
> There is order for Civilian general evacuation.
> There is an order for Martial Law.
> 
> Civilian in Kherson cannot go outside because of the Martial Law, which mean they cannot be evacuated.
> 
> So, its easy to tell only people who are Russian (who moved to Kherson to help administrating Kherson after they took it back in March) and Russian collaborator are allowed to leave.
> 
> That points to 1 or two points.
> 
> 1.) Russia wants to pull out completely from Kherson and take their people out of there.
> 2.) Russia wants to fight it out in Kherson and using Ukrainian as meat shield.
> 
> But judging from the fact they are moving heavy equipment out, it usually mean point to a strategic withdraw.


really not , martial law give special power to the army , it not necessarily bar people from going out of the home or leave the area.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> really not , martial law give special power to the army , it not necessarily bar people from going out of the home or leave the area.


Well, read the order again, it prohibit unnecessary movement by the civilian. And there are report from Kherson that Russian troop are active barring people to leave Kherson.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Well, read the order again, it prohibit unnecessary movement by the civilian.


some my argue leaving kherson may be considered a necessary movement.


jhungary said:


> And there are report from Kherson that Russian troop are active barring people to leave Kherson.


Are they confirmed ?


----------



## zectech

gambit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/524926582335754240


Ukraine, your crazy sociopathic ex-girlfriend, Putin's Russia, wants to get back together with you.




China and Iran are next. Their girlfriend Trump wants to move into Iran and China.

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## Hack-Hook

zectech said:


> Ukraine, your crazy sociopathic ex-girlfriend, Putin, wants to get back together with you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China and Iran are next. Their girlfriend Trump wants to move into Iran and China.


you mean trump want to burn usa so they can move into china and iran and everybody live together as a cozy family ?


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> some my argue leaving kherson may be considered a necessary movement.



Other may argue the different way around



Hack-Hook said:


> Are they confirmed ?



Well, you know as well as I do there can never be confirmed source in this, it still under Russian control, then there are no way to confirm. 

That's comes from several different resident and activities doing interview and Telegram post. Can I confirm it? No I can't, that's why I said there are reports, not facts that they are limiting people movement.


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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Might be cheaper to end this war by offering a free washing machine to each Russian soldier if they up arms and surrender for their free ticket for a washing machine that can be redeemed  ...


Problem is not common russian soldiers they will be happy with washing machine and shoes. Problem is Putin. He is too greedy. The world is not enough. This war will get uglier. There is no way out.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine receives TRML-4D multifunction radar from Germany​By
Dylan Malyasov
- 
Oct 22, 2022




Image by Hensoldt

*German sensor specialist Hensoldt announced that it is supplying four of its high-performance radars in record time for Diehl Defence’s IRIS-T SLM air defence system, which is designed to strengthen Ukraine’s defence capability. *

According to a press release from Hensoldt, as part of an order from Diehl Defence worth a two-digit million euro sum, one of the TRML-4D radars has already been delivered, with three more to follow within a few months.

Thomas Müller, CEO of Hensoldt, said: “The situation in Ukraine requires quick and decisive action. Due to a serial production line and the commitment of our employees, we are able to deliver such systems to protect the population in the shortest possible time.”

TRML-4D uses the latest Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar technology with multiple digitally shaped beams. It is capable of detecting, tracking and classifying various types of aerial targets, with a focus on small, fast and low-flying and/or manoeuvring cruise missiles and aircraft, as well as hovering helicopters. It ensures the rapid detection and tracking of some 1,500 targets in a radius of up to 250 km.

As purely German systems, Hensoldt’s solutions are not dependent on foreign technology and therefore offer the highest degree of approvability and certifiability for operation in Germany, as well as the highest possible security of supply. At the same time, they are fully compatible with NATO’s integrated air defence architecture.


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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Well, read the order again, it prohibit unnecessary movement by the civilian. And there are report from Kherson that Russian troop are active barring people to leave Kherson.


Why are some people surprised? Russia is not a nation of law. Anyone in charge can make whatever decision they want 

The declaration of Martial Law are just formality it doesn't change the situation on the ground.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

"While fighter jets have been effective against Iranian drones, said Yurii Ignat, a Ukrainian Air Force spokesman, *the approach is costly because of its use of air-to-air missiles.* *'It’s frustrating that we must hit these drones with expensive missiles*,' he said. 'What else can we do? This is the reality now.'"









‘We Heard It, We Saw It, Then We Opened Fire’


With an intense, hastily assembled effort, the Ukrainian military is pioneering successful techniques in the difficult art of anti-drone warfare.




www.nytimes.com





Using missiles and fighter jets that together costs ten of millions of USD a piece in order to take down a drone that cost $20,000 USD is the worst trade-off economically speaking. It is also something that will not be sustainable in the long-run.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584463162027683840
If the Ukrainian authorities had to force men as old as 60 years of age to join the Ukrainian armed forces, then that only means one thing: The attrition rate against experienced and younger Ukrainian soldiers must have been very high.

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## Ali_Baba

The Su-25 RuAF crash was due to hitting powerlines it seems..









Russian pilot ejects from burning fighter jet as it crashes


Helmet camera footage captures the moment a Russian Su-25 jet spun out of control mid-air and then fell to the ground in a flaming wreck as the pilot narrowly escaped with his life.




www.dailymail.co.uk







> On Sunday, an Su-30 plane taking part in a training flight over Irkutsk - eastern Russia - nose-dived into the ground, killing both of its pilots.
> 
> Those airmen have since been named as Maxim Konyushin, 50 and a renowned test pilot, and Major Viktor Kryukov, 43.
> 
> The exact cause of the crash remains a mystery, though information has emerged that both pilots may have blacked out in the cockpit.
> 
> *A second plane was sent up to make contact with the doomed aircraft after it failed to respond to calls from the Irkutsk Aviation Plant and began circling on autopilot.*
> 
> The aircraft is though to have circled 'for a considerable period' before their fuel ran out and *the plane plunged to earth.*
> 
> The crew of the second plane saw the pilots 'with their heads hanging down low, in other words, they both blacked out', a source at the testing plant said.
> 
> The insider told SibReal media that shocking safety abuses were common at the plant - one of Russia's major aircraft manufacturers.



SO - the russian ALSO lost the plane that was sent out to look for the first lost plane!!!!!!!!

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584441041109028864

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584459474877972480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584461741358223360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584440766860251136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584305170128965632

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## Viet

Natural gas futures hit $99.

Shocking.

That will be a bloodbath this week.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584464370905776131

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> "That one Jew in a concentration camp looks fine."
> ~Han Patriot.
> 
> Another cigarette incident. This time in an Arms factory


Nope that's alot of fine looking men behind it. If you look at holocaust pics, all of them are thin. Just asking mate....you know there is something known as propaganda warfare.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583882601042804737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584331286172168192

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584464702574579712

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## The SC

"We don't care"
Watch this video to the end before you write a comment regarding Russia and Ukraine.

This American senator said it briefly and in front of the world on the screen.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583584971343548416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583895932227108865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584301402133737472

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584494128075010051

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584487106717822976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584496343216959488

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584504581509484546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584503588163710977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584504038153801728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584504695732592642

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584497101773606912

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584482595286683649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584478178613276672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584516848720019457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584513827655553030

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584511671782948864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584503188115161089

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584508589728636928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584506907028774917

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584506994769031170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584501021925343232

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584504581509484546
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584503588163710977
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584504038153801728
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584504695732592642


Laughable. I wonder if the administration is the creator of the russian narrative or if Putin himself is involved.

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## Cash GK

Beast said:


> What does Zelensky being a Jews got to do with Russian ethics want to rejoin Russia? You think that is hard to believe? And you believe those Ukraine ethics Russian want to give up Russian culture and speak Ukrainian? LOL..
> 
> Why not you claim Armenian in those region of Azerbaijan want to become Azeri? Or you can claim the globe is cube.


You don't know enmity between Catholic and orthodox. Jew and Christians. Then you have no idea what's so ever. Welcome to reality and read something if you wana comment here. Otherwise people will make fun of you. You know what example define this Palestine and Syria.... Existence of Isreal. Crusade wars. Jewish Community was killed by the Christians.. so search these all things then come here for consideration...Ukrainians are 70 percent ortodoxos and western establecimient is Catholic... russia is majority ortodoxos.. it simler to suni shia. Enmity between iran and saudia..


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## Vergennes

These are the helmets Russian mobilized are receiving lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584516973303504900

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> These are the helmets Russian mobilized are receiving lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584516973303504900



And Ukrainians soldiers were trained with AK-47 in the UK. They train with obsolete stuff. Doesn't mean in combat they will use obsolete stuff.

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## Viet

Ukraine air defense knows the trick. It shoots down 85 percent of Iran drones.

Russians using Iran drones are a means of terror is over.







Unter anderem wegen ihrer geringen Flughöhe seien die Drohnen einfach abzuschießen, teilte das britische Verteidigungsministerium mit.
(Foto: picture alliance/dpa/AP)





__





85 Prozent abgefangen: London: Ukraine wehrt Großteil iranischer Drohnen ab - n-tv.de


Als Ersatz für russische Langstreckenwaffen soll Russland vermehrt auf iranische Kamikazedrohnen zurückgreifen. Diese werden von der Ukraine jedoch immer effektiver abgefangen, teilt der britische Geheimdienst mit. Die Drohnen seien nämlich recht einfach abzuschießen.



amp.n-tv.de

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584528996515352576




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584530586659868672


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ukraine air defense knows the trick. It shoots down 85 percent of Iran drones.
> 
> Russians using Iran drones are a means of terror is over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unter anderem wegen ihrer geringen Flughöhe seien die Drohnen einfach abzuschießen, teilte das britische Verteidigungsministerium mit.
> (Foto: picture alliance/dpa/AP)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 85 Prozent abgefangen: London: Ukraine wehrt Großteil iranischer Drohnen ab - n-tv.de
> 
> 
> Als Ersatz für russische Langstreckenwaffen soll Russland vermehrt auf iranische Kamikazedrohnen zurückgreifen. Diese werden von der Ukraine jedoch immer effektiver abgefangen, teilt der britische Geheimdienst mit. Die Drohnen seien nämlich recht einfach abzuschießen.
> 
> 
> 
> amp.n-tv.de



Cheap drones are good at depleting expensive SAM. These are good at paving the way for cruise missiles which have more range and more punch.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584523433018523649


Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584528996515352576
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584530586659868672





Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584532486956388360



Ukrainians have pushed back russians in Bakhmut.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584534909653487617

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584532037829939200


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584519426216370176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584525744859815936

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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584523433018523649
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584532486956388360
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians have pushed back russians in Bakhmut.


Now those wagners can do something positive for once. Enrich ukranian soil. 

I wonder how many months of “advances” in bakhmut area was rolled back.

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## Vergennes

ZeGerman said:


> Now those wagners can do something positive for once. Enrich ukranian soil.
> 
> I wonder how many months of “advances” in bakhmut area was rolled back.



Months of advance coupled with thousands of casualties and entire BTGs pulverized only to lose that advance in a couple of days.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> sorry red cross don't define the rules
> and as its said the drones are made in Russia.
> a question for you have you guys ever found one time the drones being loaded or unloaded from airplane
> and no there is no consequence in supporting wars.
> what you want to do sanction those who are sanctioned for 3rd or 4th time?


International treaties define the rules, you don’t.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But there are other countries who supply weapons to Ukraine, and those weapons kill Russians in the Russia mainland and also in the Donbas and Southern Ukraine. So there should be consequences for those countries as well, don't you think? They aren't just bystanders.


Russia is free to attack NATO, which will have its own consequences.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584533469186560000




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584518646352596993

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Cheap drones are good at depleting expensive SAM. These are good at paving the way for cruise missiles which have more range and more punch.


Ukraine can use guns. The ammo are cheap. Much cheaper than 20k USD drone.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ukraine can use guns. The ammo are cheap. Much cheaper than 20k USD drone.



Gepard uses radar. Kamikaze drone has anti radiation seeker. It kills radar equipped AD tanks.

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## Shawnee

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Gepard uses radar. Kamikaze drone has anti radiation seeker. It kills radar equipped AD tanks.



Ukraine can use media.
It is cheap. 

You title:
“99 percent of Iranian drones killed.
Iranian instructors killed in Syria and Kherson.”

Now what?

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## Elvin

So much life wasted…

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584547412861161473


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584547412861161473



42 million people is going to have a hard time fighting 146 million people. In WW2 Germany had 79 million people and lost to USSR which had 193 million people.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584532436364722176

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> International treaties define the rules, you don’t.


red crescent is not international treaty .


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia is free to attack NATO, which will have its own consequences.


as i said who care do your worst , we only here to prolong the war in European continent , waste your ressource on the war and buy the gas 3 time its price from your ally uncle sam.



Viet said:


> Ukraine can use guns. The ammo are cheap. Much cheaper than 20k USD drone.


well they tried it , solution was not that spectacular


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## Viet

A.P. Richelieu said:


> International treaties define the rules, you don’t.
> 
> 
> Russia is free to attack NATO, which will have its own consequences.


the 101.th US airborne division is just 5km away from Ukraine border. if tomorrow the war breaks out, they will be the first.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584554247815036928


Viet said:


> the 101.th US airborne division is just 5km away from Ukraine border. if tomorrow the war breaks out, they will be the first.
> 
> 
> View attachment 888964
> 
> View attachment 888962
> 
> View attachment 888963
> 
> View attachment 888961



Today's US is far weaker than 80s US when US was at its peak.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584558671178391552

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Ukraine can use guns. The ammo are cheap. Much cheaper than 20k USD drone.



That Oerlikon ammo costs 3 digit sum apiece, 1 ammo drum - $100-$200k

No wonder, Turks decided to make an own copy to save moneys.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> That Oerlikon ammo costs 3 digit sum apiece, 1 ammo drum - $100-$200k
> 
> No wonder, Turks decided to make an own copy to save moneys.



Oerlikon ammo is limited. It is Swiss made. Switzerland is neutral. Ammo is hard to come by.









The Shadow of Swiss neutrality on the war in Ukraine


Why has Switzerland blocked the re-export of ammunition for the Gepard tank, which Germany has agreed to send to Ukraine?




www.defenceprocurementinternational.com


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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584477788853047297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584465151280893953

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/yc99g5

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584295884367351809
A guy wearing a yarmulke and then has a swastika on his neck. This war in Ukraine is exposing many falsehoods that have been told before.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584573508532596736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584567641934819328
In a matter of days,Russians and those wagnerites have lost what they have gained after months of fighting.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584572765243576320

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584556045677887488

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> red crescent is not international treaty .


Noone said it was.


Hack-Hook said:


> as i said who care do your worst , we only here to prolong the war in European continent , waste your ressource on the war and buy the gas 3 time its price from your ally uncle sam.


Yes, and what goes around comes around.



Hack-Hook said:


> well they tried it , solution was not that spectacular


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584415870234685441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584574729129955328

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainian APCs taken out by the DPR (Donesk People's Republic) militia


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584555091993907203

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584567151184080896

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## zartosht

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584415870234685441
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584574729129955328



LOL!!

Bagheri had a seriously underrated trolling game i never knew about. I like him even more now 😂

The western hegemony has finally ran into a wall. And they are frustrated that they cant control free countries like Iran Russia and China


*“Men who only kneel before GOD”*

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> That Oerlikon ammo costs 3 digit sum apiece, 1 ammo drum - $100-$200k
> 
> No wonder, Turks decided to make an own copy to save moneys.


But if you consider a 10k or 20k USD drone can cause 1 million USD damage then 100k USD ammo is still a bargain, and a life is at risk then it’s worth off.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584576037895430144

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## jamal18

jhungary said:


> I don't really know what you are smoking but I wanted some....
> 
> There *ARE NO NORTHERN FRONT*. Russia tried it back in February with 100,000 troop and full equipment on an unprepared Ukrainian who only have 2 Brigade in the entire front. And that got beaten back. And you are telling me that 90,000 joint Russian - Belarus troop can make a different with most of their armor stripped to use in the East can attack a Fortified Ukrainian position since April with 8 Brigades in the area with another 2 Brigade reserved in Lviv and Poland Border??
> 
> Some Ukrainian cable even wanted Russia to invade from the North, so it can give them the excuse so they can move into Belarus and establish a DMZ with the border.
> 
> Again, tell me what you are smoking because I really wanted some.


Keep a civil tongue in your head.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584577584599564288


----------



## jhungary

jamal18 said:


> Keep a civil tongue in your head.


I have already restrained to be more insulting. And I really want to get a hold of what you are smoking.

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## jamal18

jhungary said:


> I have already restrained to be more insulting. And I really want to get a hold of what you are smoking.


Dickhead, listen clearly. Don't like what I say, don't respond.

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## jhungary

jamal18 said:


> Dickhead, listen clearly. Don't like what I say, don't respond.


lol, I could say the same to you

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584568614866530304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584585930475986944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584552652167294976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584585420624793601

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584605541737074688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584603874903478273

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584545389386293250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584532675339374594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584610935570038784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584609906493358080


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584609562375917573

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Noone said it was.


so it's not defining international rules. it my have its own definition for situation but they are not international rules


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yes, and what goes around comes around.


exactly and its coming around part


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584585930475986944


AZ forgot to add “*Russias* reports”.. This is nothing but Russia playing the game. Theyve reported all sorts of possible ukrainian atrocities trying to cover their own.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584600358705573888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584593395837984768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584579097451057153

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584620920097734656


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584622325802360833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584557464129015810

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584609562375917573


They look happy. Like prison guards of Siberia gulags. For every kindergarten that is bombed they get a medal, a hospital two medals.


----------



## The SC

Western Report: Ukraine lost 400 000 soldiers KIA since the start of this Special Operation

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> Western report that Ukraine lost 400 000 KIA since the start of this Special Operation



Devastating loss for a country where population is dropping like a stone and young people are in short supply.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584627808399405057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584616627114749952

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> so it's not defining international rules. it my have its own definition for situation but they are not international rules
> 
> exactly and its coming around part


The International Red Cross does not make the rules, they simply publish them.
Noone not accepting treaties on neutrality can claim protection by being neutral.


----------



## beast89

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584278311097708546


israel only cares about israel, they dont trust any nation especially European ones. They will continue milk European guilt and simping americans.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> Nope that's alot of fine looking men behind it. If you look at holocaust pics, all of them are thin. Just asking mate....you know there is something known as propaganda warfare.


Why can't u just admit that NATO & the US are the good guys here?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584623892206825472


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584629264741150720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584459474877972480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584638222344548352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584622927953416192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584627321159680000

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584551170407747584

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584650327336243203


----------



## ZeGerman

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584551170407747584


Russia always lies. So i guess it means they are starting to see their stocks diminish.

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## MeFishToo

I wonder at what level the price of natural gas in europe will settle.

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Why can't u just admit that NATO & the US are the good guys here?


Well good guys don't go around killing 500k civilians and bombing a sovereign nation. If they had UN mandate, then its a different story, you don't see Nato in Rwanda right?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584674182800896000

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## BHAN85

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584504581509484546
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584503588163710977
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584504038153801728
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584504695732592642





https://tass.com/politics/1526683



A little before war started, Moscow and Kiev accused each other of planning false flags, nothing of that happened, just Russia started the war.

So likely this time will happen the same, not a false flag will happen, just Russia will increase hostilities.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584657190614278144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584665744695906305


----------



## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> LOL!!
> 
> Bagheri had a seriously underrated trolling game i never knew about. I like him even more now 😂
> 
> The western hegemony has finally ran into a wall. And they are frustrated that they cant control free countries like Iran Russia and China
> 
> 
> *“Men who only kneel before GOD”*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 888990


Did you say free countries like iran and Russian?
Definitely not free for their people

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584645652180787200


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584688563203231744


BHAN85 said:


> just Russia started the war



When a nation has power, it will start war. Japan invaded China in 1894 and took Taiwan. Japan invaded Russia in 1904 and took South Sakhalin.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584617160701542401

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## sammuel

~​
Air Force: APU shot down three Russian Ka-52 helicopters in a day​




__





Loading…






odessa-journal.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> ~​
> Air Force: APU shot down three Russian Ka-52 helicopters in a day​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> odessa-journal.com



Fake news. They actually shot down 500 Ka-52 helicopters in a day.

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## Shawnee

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Fake news. They actually shot down 500 Ka-52 helicopters in a day.



They can well say 52 Ka-52 were shot and most people in the world will believe that.

The power of Russian and Chinese media is zilch before US media.

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## khansaheeb

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/22/bakhmut-russia-ukraine-wagner-war/



In bloody battle for Bakhmut, Russian mercenaries eye a symbolic prize​By Louisa Loveluck
and 
Robyn Dixon

October 22, 2022 at 1:00 a.m. EDT
Listen
9 min
Comment
563

Gift Article

Share
BAKHMUT, Ukraine — The crash and roar of artillery rarely stops in this eastern Ukrainian city. In the cold and broken houses, residents huddle by candlelight and pray that they have safety in numbers. On the battlefield, soldiers on both sides are dying in droves.
While Ukrainian advances have redrawn the battlefield map elsewhere, the front line in Bakhmut, in the Donetsk region some 10 miles from the border of Luhansk, has barely moved in four months of heavy fighting.

Of all the battles in the east, President Volodymyr Zelensky said last week, the “most difficult” is here. Yet in this fight for control of a shattered city, military experts say the ambitions of a Russian oligarch, Yevgeniy Prigozhin, founder of the Wagner mercenary group, may have eclipsed all strategic logic.

A destroyed house and a goat in the town of Soledar, near Bakhmut, Ukraine, on Oct. 16. (Wojciech Grzedzinski/for The Washington Post)
After a disorderly Russian retreat from nearby Izyum, the battle for Bakhmut is no longer part of any coordinated military operation. Instead, Prigozhin is pouring waves of mercenaries from Wagner into battle, appearing to see political advantage in capturing Bakhmut as a military trophy while President Vladimir Putin’s regular forces are on the back foot elsewhere.
Outgunned and outnumbered, exhausted Ukrainian troops are relying on nimbler tactics to withstand the brutal battle, monitoring enemy lines with civilian drones as newly recruited engineers experiment with customized weapons from pop-up laboratories in abandoned buildings nearby.
“To be honest, we have to,” said Vlad, who is overseeing the 93rd Brigade’s effort to refit drones, antitank mines and other weapons so that they are more effective. “The Russians have the soldiers, the guns, everything. We need to be smart,” he said.

Soldiers and drone operators from Ukraine's 93rd Brigade coordinate mortar fire at a position near Bakhmut, Ukraine, on Oct. 16. (Wojciech Grzedzinski/for The Washington Post)

Vitali, 22, an engineer with Ukraine's 93rd Brigade, prepares a suicide drone near Bakhmut on Oct. 16. (Wojciech Grzedzinski/for The Washington Post)

A soldier from Ukraine's 93rd Brigade rests at a position near Bakhmut on Oct. 16. (Wojciech Grzedzinski/for The Washington Post)

The salt-mining city of Bakhmut had a population of 70,000 before Russia’s Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine. Perhaps 15,000 remain, but the streets were almost empty as fighting raged there this week. Weeds smothered the wheat fields. Military vehicles sped down roads gouged by rockets, kicking up clouds of dust as they went.
Ukraine urges citizens to turn off appliances, save power after airstrikes
At the 93rd Brigade’s command post, a drone operator peered at the live feed of Russian positions that it was sending back to him. The soldiers worked fast, slipping mortar rounds down the barrel and loosing them up through the sky. Someone had scrawled “director” on the drone operator’s chair. Squinting down at the screen of his tablet, he waited a second, then he nodded, and a ripple of delight coursed through the men.

They had hit the target.







But these still felt like some of the unit’s worst days, said Dima, their 25-year-old commander. When darkness enveloped their dugout a night earlier, Russian forces fired on them with mortars and cluster munitions. “It’s not the first time we’ve been under fire, but this is different now,” Dima said.
After four years in the Ukrainian army, Dima said the battle for Bakhmut was among the “most dangerous” he had witnessed.
The fighting and its echoes hung heavy through the city on Wednesday. The air throbbed with the sound of shelling. When that fell quiet, clanking metal in the wind was the only sound left.
A 51-year-old entrepreneur, Oleksander, had dried blood on his face from a rocket strike that smashed his home the night before. He did not have clean water to wash up. He said he had invited his neighbors, a young couple and their daughter, to stay with him in the apartment, thinking that they would be safer if they stuck together.

Oleksander, 51, on Oct. 19 in the city center of Bakhmut, Ukraine, where his home was damaged by shelling. (Wojciech Grzedzinski/for The Washington Post)
The parents were now in intensive care, he said, and their 9-year-old child, Liza, had been evacuated, alone, to another city.
“I thought our place was safer,” he said blankly. “We were just sitting there. We were drinking tea.”
In a recent analysis, the Institute for the Study of War, a Washington-based think tank, described Prigozhin’s Bakhmut effort as “irrelevant operationally” after Russia’s loss of Izyum, 60 miles north.
“The Russian seizure of Bakhmut, which is unlikely to occur considering Russian forces have impaled themselves on tiny surrounding settlements for weeks, would no longer support any larger effort to accomplish the original objectives of this phase of the campaign,” the report concluded, “since it would not be supported by an advance from Izyum in the north.”
Prigozhin, who is nicknamed Putin’s chef because he grew fabulously wealthy off of government catering contracts, has been a loud critic of the regular Russian military’s performance in Ukraine. His involvement in the Ukraine war is seen by analysts as part of his effort to curry favor and potentially additional state contracts. There is also speculation among the Russian elite that he is angling for a government post.







Wagner played a key role in the capture of Popasna in May but reportedly took heavy losses. According to pro-Kremlin military bloggers, Prigozhin was awarded the nation’s highest honor, a Hero of Russia medal, the following month.
Ukraine improvises with aging air defenses to counter Russian missiles
After long denying any link to Wagner, which has sent soldiers-for-hire to Syria, Libya, Mali, Mozambique and the Central African Republic, Prigozhin acknowledged last month that he created the group. In a recent self-published interview he claimed that Wagner was carrying out the assault on Bakhmut alone, and called the situation “difficult.”
For the Ukrainians, surrendering Bakhmut would give the Russians a hugely symbolic victory, and undermine the prevailing narrative that Moscow’s forces are steadily losing ground and Putin’s war is failing. In theory, capturing Bakhmut would put the Russians one step closer to bigger urban centers of Kramatorsk and Slovyansk, but there is little evidence that the Russians could make a push for them now.
Across four locations in the Bakhmut area, Ukrainian soldiers described how Wagner troops at times appear to have been used almost as cannon fodder. “They’re treating them like single-use soldiers,” said Volodymyr, 24, the commander of a self-propelled artillery unit, as he waited on spotters to call in a new target. Usually it was infantry, he said.

Volodymyr, 24, commands a team with a 2S1 Gvozdika 122mm self-propelled howitzer at a position near Bakhmut on Oct. 18. (Wojciech Grzedzinski/for The Washington Post)

Andrii, a soldier from the 10th Brigade, sits on self-propelled howitzer near Bakhmut, Ukraine, on Oct. 18. (Wojciech Grzedzinski/for The Washington Post)

Volodymyr, 24, the commander of a team with a 2S1 Gvozdika 122mm self-propelled howitzer, prepares the unit to fire near Bakhmut, Ukraine, on Oct. 18. (Wojciech Grzedzinski/for The Washington Post)

Another soldier nodded.
“If we are shelling those positions, they keep pushing the men forward again and again,” the second soldier said. “They want to smoke us out, then fire artillery on us.”
From the 93rd Brigade’s position, drone operators have seen the mercenaries stumble over the bodies of fallen comrades as they advance.
A Russian reporter who filmed Wagner’s front-line positions near Bakhmut late last month reported that Prigozhin’s son was fighting there, and interviewed him, without identifying him by name.
“Bakhmut is a road to many directions. It’s a very important point strategically for the Ukrainian forces and for us,” another fighter said in the video. “Their team is ready to fight until the end, no matter what the losses are.”
The scale of the Russian losses are not known, but Ukrainian soldiers interviewed said they estimated them to be significant. “The number is big on their side because they’re not treating them like people,” said Misha, a 25-year-old soldier from the 93rd Brigade.

A drone operator from Ukraine's 93rd Brigade at a position near Bakhmut, Ukraine, on Oct. 16. (Wojciech Grzedzinski/for The Washington Post)
Ukraine’s casualties are also heavy. Ambulances shuttled back and forth between the Ukrainian firing positions last week, apparently carrying wounded men from the front line.
At a nearby hospital, two soldiers said they had brought four members of their unit to the emergency room after a Russian rocket attack in Bakhmut, and that three were in a critical condition. Their bloodstained jackets were still in the car. In a video taken shortly after the incident, the fourth man was seen howling in pain with his femur snapped at a sickening angle.
Torture, killings, abductions: Russian retreat from Izyum reveals horrors
The day before, they said, another company had been surrounded by Russian forces, and fired upon. “There weren’t even pieces of them left,” said one of the soldiers, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of describing Ukrainian casualties.
For Bakhmut’s residents, there is also little left. Rockets pound the city every day. A civilian doctor tries to patch up the injuries, but the walking wounded often just pull the shrapnel from their bodies on their own.

Vitalii Kuzmienko, 52, stands near a damaged bridge in Bakhmut on Oct. 19. Vitalii says he drinks every day because he is afraid of constant shelling. (Wojciech Grzedzinski/for The Washington Post)
Standing on the Bakhmutka River’s eastern bank this week, Vitalii Kuzmienko, 52, stared up at a damaged bridge, its deck blown away, leaving a huge gap at mid-span. To stop Russian forces from advancing, the Ukrainians had laid antitank mines on one side, but those mines never detonated.
Kuzmienko said his house had been destroyed in the fighting, and so he was living in the wreckage of an outdoor market. His relatives were buried in Bakhmut, he said, and he didn’t want to leave them.
With alcohol on his breath, Kuzmienko said he feared that shelling might hit the bridge, and detonate the unexploded mines and then damage nearby civilian homes. He said he drank every day now to numb the fear and to help him sleep.
When four rockets slammed into the riverbank moments later, he barely moved.
_Serhii Korolchuk and Wojciech Grzedzinski contributed to this report._


----------



## Shawnee

Ask Iran how to protect yourself against these Kamikaze drones.
Iran Dome will be more effective than Iron Dome.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584134868664864768

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584746445923844096

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## Hamartia Antidote

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584464702574579712



This is exactly why you can't drive on roads. Artillery units already have them fully spec'd out and know exactly the angle and timing to fire.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584690318812684289

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584642027014467584

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Russian soldiers beating up Muslims soldiers for praying

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584458685811564544


Han Patriot said:


> Well good guys don't go around killing 500k civilians and bombing a sovereign nation. If they had UN mandate, then its a different story, you don't see Nato in Rwanda right?


Why don't you just say gorrillion amounts of people because it's pretty much the same amount to you. Also don't google how many the serbs kill & how many war crimes the serbs commit.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Shawnee said:


> They can well say 52 Ka-52 were shot and most people in the world will believe that.
> 
> The power of Russian and Chinese media is zilch before US media.


Confirmed by OSINT

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584580973756551168
Even the Russian knows they can't win

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584731947666116608

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584610987079921664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584608141756420096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584619074180767744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584609046782685185


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Zelensky demands Israel to pick a side in Russian vs Ukrainian conflict. No duplicity, just pick a side.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Tell me again how Russia will win this? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584255535229980673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584203002935549953

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## Reashot Xigwin

*Update from the crash in Yeysk a few days ago. 17/10/22*

Turns out seagulls allegedly made nest in the jet engines. That caused the crash.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Paul2

Reashot Xigwin said:


> *Update from the crash in Yeysk a few days ago. 17/10/22*
> 
> Turns out seagulls allegedly made nest in the jet engines. That caused the crash.



somebody must have stole the FOD covers as well


----------



## Clutch

Viet said:


> Ukraine air defense knows the trick. It shoots down 85 percent of Iran drones.
> 
> Russians using Iran drones are a means of terror is over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unter anderem wegen ihrer geringen Flughöhe seien die Drohnen einfach abzuschießen, teilte das britische Verteidigungsministerium mit.
> (Foto: picture alliance/dpa/AP)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 85 Prozent abgefangen: London: Ukraine wehrt Großteil iranischer Drohnen ab - n-tv.de
> 
> 
> Als Ersatz für russische Langstreckenwaffen soll Russland vermehrt auf iranische Kamikazedrohnen zurückgreifen. Diese werden von der Ukraine jedoch immer effektiver abgefangen, teilt der britische Geheimdienst mit. Die Drohnen seien nämlich recht einfach abzuschießen.
> 
> 
> 
> amp.n-tv.de




Glad to see Iranian drones have the Vietcong terrified

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## Cash GK

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Tell me again how Russia will win this?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584255535229980673
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584203002935549953


Not Ukrainen and european gona win Eighter. Urkrain gona be picture like Iraq Syria Afghanistan.
Way Usa and european did not win in Iraq Afghanistan but those countries were left as hell. Russian will go back after 2 to 3 years. European gona buy Russian gass everything will be normal for them but Urkrain gona live in misery. Mark my words. You war mongers gona find another interesting topic.

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## Viet

MeFishToo said:


> I wonder at what level the price of natural gas in europe will settle.
> 
> View attachment 889074


The average price was $20. However that was prewar, pre corona.
We will unlikely return to that level.
$50 is probably the bottom.


----------



## gambit

Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia


What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame




www.theregister.com





The failure rate of semiconductors shipped from China to Russia has increased by 1,900 percent in recent months, according to Russian national business daily Коммерсантъ (Kommersant).​​Quoting an anonymous source, Kommersant states that before Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine the defect rate in imported silicon was two percent. Since that war commenced, Russian manufacturers have apparently faced 40 percent failure rates.​​Even a two percent defect rate is sub-optimal, because products made of many components can therefore experience considerable quality problems. Forty percent failure rates mean supplies are perilously close to being unfit for purpose.​
This is a serious long term problem for Russia.

Semiconductor products start with the silicon wafer. Every wafer have a yield as in how many dies (chips) can be sold for whatever purpose. Usually, products such as NAND or NOR that have a wafer yield of %90 or more are considered 'matured' and demands the highest contract and spot market prices. The wafer is considered 'prime' or for 'Tier One' customers. Less than %90 per wafer yield would be sold to Tier Two/Three customers and usually sold at break even or even at a loss.

But I will not bore the readers with the technical details. China, according to this report, is selling Russia semiconductor products that reputable manufacturers would have sent to the scrap barrels.

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## Shawnee

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Confirmed by OSINT
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584580973756551168
> Even the Russian knows they can't win
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584731947666116608



Twitter so called known OSINTs are an extension of the huge western media power.

Chine and Russia are zilch in media power.

Show me an OSINT who works on US satellite military imagery.

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## Soldier35

An episode of the work of Russian artillerymen with a gun - howitzer D-20. The Soviet 152-mm D-20 howitzer was put into service in 1953, howitzers of this series were used in many conflicts and are in service with a large number of countries, including the Ukrainian army. The maximum range of howitzer fire with a conventional projectile is 17400 meters, with an active reactive projectile 24 kilometers. Howitzer deployment time 2 minutes, calculation 8 people. More details about the work of artillerymen in Ukraine in the video.






Germany handed over to Ukraine its advanced TRML-4D radar from HENSOLDT. The TRML-4D radar was developed in 2018 and is intended for the IRIS-T SLM air defense system, which we will talk about later. The radar is capable of tracking up to 1,500 flying objects at an altitude of up to 30 kilometers and tracking them at a distance of up to 150 km for aircraft and 60 km for supersonic missiles. A four-dimensional radar is capable of identifying targets not only by range, height and speed, but also by its size, just like the radars of the Russian S-400 air defense system do. The TRML-4D radar unit includes an onboard power generator and can be transported by any truck. While one TRML-4D radar has been delivered to Ukraine, 3 more will be delivered in 2023.






The crew of the Russian Tor-M2 air defense system spoke about their combat work on UAVs in Ukraine. The calculation shot down the UAV of the army of Ukraine "Fury" and "Valkyrie". SAM Tor-M2 is considered one of the best systems for working on small targets.






The Ukrainian army began to use the Swedish light anti-ship system RBS-17. The complex is capable of firing at ground targets. The Robotsystem 17 was developed in 1987 and is a transportable tripod for a rocket launcher. RBS-17 uses the American AGM-114C Hellfire missile with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead and a semi-active laser seeker that requires target illumination. Several RBS-17 launchers can operate under the control of one observation station. The RBS-17 complex was discontinued in the nineties. The firing range of the RBS-17 complex is 10 km.

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## Viet

Clutch said:


> Glad to see Iranian drones have the Vietcong terrified


Terrorize civil population by using foreign suicide drones is not something Russia army is proud of. They are not soldiers they are cowards.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The International Red Cross does not make the rules, they simply publish them.
> Noone not accepting treaties on neutrality can claim protection by being neutral.


no they have a definition for themselves and publish it and act on it, that's not rule, that's their internal working guideline.
and as I said who care do your worse , its decade you guys lost their legitimacy on complaining anything on this regard


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584647899815694336
@F-22Raptor @ZeGerman

Those kadyrovites went to Ukraine thinking they could film some nice tiktoks only to end up getting himarsed.

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## OverandOut

Broken records stuck on Russia won’t win this or whatever, can they define what a win would look like for Ukraine?

Either side will do whatever to survive and yes it is either Russia block vs Ukraine/NATO and Wests lapdogs.

Again tell me what does win look like to you, those who support either side? And the cost you think you will have to pay for it because you ought to know what you’re aiming for and how to get there and what you’re going to loose or gain through it all.
There are clear alliances and blocks so it shouldn’t be difficult for Pakistan to know who to support as a muslim nation but if you still think being neutral is the best then leave it at that. Or perhaps those who have decided don’t want to think as muslims and only materialistic interests that prolong their subservience to their lords.


----------



## Clutch

Viet said:


> Terrorize civil population by using foreign suicide drones is not something Russia army is proud of. They are not soldiers they are cowards.



Yes, as an American I also say the same if the Vietnamese gooks.


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia
> 
> 
> What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theregister.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The failure rate of semiconductors shipped from China to Russia has increased by 1,900 percent in recent months, according to Russian national business daily Коммерсантъ (Kommersant).​​Quoting an anonymous source, Kommersant states that before Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine the defect rate in imported silicon was two percent. Since that war commenced, Russian manufacturers have apparently faced 40 percent failure rates.​​Even a two percent defect rate is sub-optimal, because products made of many components can therefore experience considerable quality problems. Forty percent failure rates mean supplies are perilously close to being unfit for purpose.​
> This is a serious long term problem for Russia.
> 
> Semiconductor products start with the silicon wafer. Every wafer have a yield as in how many dies (chips) can be sold for whatever purpose. Usually, products such as NAND or NOR that have a wafer yield of %90 or more are considered 'matured' and demands the highest contract and spot market prices. The wafer is considered 'prime' or for 'Tier One' customers. Less than %90 per wafer yield would be sold to Tier Two/Three customers and usually sold at break even or even at a loss.
> 
> But I will not bore the readers with the technical details. China, according to this report, is selling Russia semiconductor products that reputable manufacturers would have sent to the scrap barrels.


it seems according to article , China sell faulty chips to Russia not China chip making process ids faulty , the article say before war the fault rate was 2%, after it the rate become 40% and conclude because Russian importers can't go and complain anywhere China actually sell them the faulty chips.

serve as warning for anybody who don't produce essential industrial chips itself



Viet said:


> Terrorize civil population by using foreign suicide drones is not something Russia army is proud of. They are not soldiers they are cowards.


the targets not civilians , but Ukraine double use industry


----------



## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584647899815694336
> @F-22Raptor @ZeGerman
> 
> Those kadyrovites went to Ukraine thinking they could film some nice tiktoks only to end up getting himarsed.


Would have been nice if they manage to hit his Larping kids

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> it seems according to article , China sell faulty chips to Russia not China chip making process ids faulty , the article say before war the fault rate was 2%, after it the rate become 40% and conclude because Russian importers can't go and complain anywhere China actually sell them the faulty chips.
> 
> serve as warning for anybody who don't produce essential industrial chips itself
> 
> 
> the targets not civilians , but Ukraine double use industry


By that logic russian bombers can even bomb Ukraine factory that produces washing machines. Please have some brains.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584836007706341377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584833829629747200


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> By that logic russian bombers can even bomb Ukraine factory that produces washing machines. Please have some brains.


that's not my logic that's NATO and USA logic , and double use technology and industry is the term you guys used to prevent letting Iran buy medical equipment like CT-scan , Ultrasonographic and Gama-scan devices also equipment to produce vaccines and drugs. we learnt it from you guys


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584813922837622785

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## Deino

Why do I have that strange feeling, Russia‘s constant claims on Ukrainian Nazis is nothing but a diversionary tactic. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584849599449399298

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## jhungary

Hmm, it shows two things.

1.) I was right about the Russian soldier ditches their uniform and flee in civilian clothes.
2.) Assuming these Russian soldiers are not trying to flee to the Ukrainian side, that mean this video would be shot quite close to the rear of Russian line in Kherson. Which means Ukraine is taking quite a lot of ground in operation around Kherson.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584862599082307584


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584764151099887618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584878829083893760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584873146754076673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584859169781616640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584858232375611393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584824675414454273

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584822069526958080

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584874913219117057


----------



## Viet

Putin is not amused.

Russia army lost 480 men, 3 helicopters, 1 aircraft, 21 tanks and 26 armored vehicles in a single day.







Russland Präsident Wladimir Putin hat die Region Cherson im Süden der Ukraine widerrechtlich annektiert – nun droht er dort die Kontrolle zu verlieren

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584901315456540672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584919909506732032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584906191246966785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584906191246966785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584892498908164097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584896484549369858

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## A.P. Richelieu

gambit said:


> Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia
> 
> 
> What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theregister.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The failure rate of semiconductors shipped from China to Russia has increased by 1,900 percent in recent months, according to Russian national business daily Коммерсантъ (Kommersant).​​Quoting an anonymous source, Kommersant states that before Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine the defect rate in imported silicon was two percent. Since that war commenced, Russian manufacturers have apparently faced 40 percent failure rates.​​Even a two percent defect rate is sub-optimal, because products made of many components can therefore experience considerable quality problems. Forty percent failure rates mean supplies are perilously close to being unfit for purpose.​
> This is a serious long term problem for Russia.
> 
> Semiconductor products start with the silicon wafer. Every wafer have a yield as in how many dies (chips) can be sold for whatever purpose. Usually, products such as NAND or NOR that have a wafer yield of %90 or more are considered 'matured' and demands the highest contract and spot market prices. The wafer is considered 'prime' or for 'Tier One' customers. Less than %90 per wafer yield would be sold to Tier Two/Three customers and usually sold at break even or even at a loss.
> 
> But I will not bore the readers with the technical details. China, according to this report, is selling Russia semiconductor products that reputable manufacturers would have sent to the scrap barrels.


I do not think you understand semiconductor technology.
If a wafer costs $1500 to process and you have 100 dies 
with a yield of 10% you get 10 working dies and you have to sell them at $150 to break even.
If you get 50 working dies , you have to sell them at $30 to break even.
if you have competition with equivalent functionality, the market forces will drive the price down towards those numbers (+ a margin).
So high yield products tend to have lower price.


----------



## Viet

Kadyrow is not amused.

A Himars missile hit a Chechen hooligan troop while they bragging on a promote video.

Autsh!






In einer Schule in der Ukraine: Die Tschetschenen vor dem Einschlag der ukrainischen Rakete

Foto: Twitter





Hat im Gegensatz zu vielen seiner Kameraden überlebt: ein tschetschenischer Kämpfer sagt „Allahu Akbar“ (deutsch: „Gott ist groß“)

Foto: Twitter

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584957823091236865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584936184127848448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584928738407370754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584919926774669321

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584905043060350976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584894115614892033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584962612357652480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584847103246757888

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## Viet

A Ukraine tank accompanied by 12 infantry attacking a russian trench position.

A tactic in WW2.


----------



## Basel

MeFishToo said:


> I hear some analyst calling the evacuation from Kherson a means to control general uprising against Russian troops once the ukrainian forces reach the outskirts of the city. Could be, if partisan activity is something starting to worry the russians.



One can analiyize situation in other context, what if Russia is creating space to use battlefield nukes inside Russian majority areas of Ukraine again UA?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584909759811133440
Looks like the Russians got completely destroyed trying to advance on Bakhmut. Now the Ukrainians are advancing

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## MeFishToo

Basel said:


> One can analiyize situation in other context, what if Russia is creating space to use battlefield nukes inside Russian majority areas of Ukraine again UA?


Could be. I just dont think it really matters where Russia would use a nuclear weapon. They might as well just fire it up in the air. It wouldnt really change the situation at the frontline, as much as it would be a statement.
I think this is just another russian attempt to scare off western support. Russia is acting as if theyve nothing to loose but we have. I have no doubt Russia is not going to use a nuclear weapon, because it would be unacceptable. Nuclear armed western nations (maybe the rest of the world) would have to respond immediately or simply give up the rest of the world to russian nuclear blackmail. And every nation would arm itself with nuclear weapons as fast as possible in an attempt to defend itself against it.

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## Ali_Baba

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584132288576880641
Another better video of a Sukhoi crash earlier on this week...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




----------



## Shawnee



Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584972582746738688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584974316902715399

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584935820263591937


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584607815968395264


----------



## BHAN85

Birds caught in engine caused Su-34 aircraft crash in Yeysk — security agencies​


https://tass.com/emergencies/1526421







__





Russian SU-30 fighter jet crashes into building in Siberia, killing two


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/23/russian-jet-crashes-into-building-in-siberia-killing-two 23 Oct 2022 Two pilots have been killed when a Russian fighter jet crashed into a two-story residential building in the city of Irkutsk in southern Siberia. Video of Sunday’s crash showed the...



defence.pk





Even seagulls are pro-Ukraine



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Zelensky demands Israel to pick a side in Russian vs Ukrainian conflict. No duplicity, just pick a side.


What has given Ukraine to Israel to demand anything?

Ukraine is getting used to ask things for free.

And the whole world is not so dumb like EU rulers.


----------



## gambit

A.P. Richelieu said:


> *I do not think you understand semiconductor technology.*
> If a wafer costs $1500 to process and you have 100 dies
> with a yield of 10% you get 10 working dies and you have to sell them at $150 to break even.
> If you get 50 working dies , you have to sell them at $30 to break even.
> if you have competition with equivalent functionality, the market forces will drive the price down towards those numbers (+ a margin).
> So high yield products tend to have lower price.


Actually, I do. Am currently working for a major semicon company making NAND, NOR, and DRAM. Sometimes for specific customers, we will make SRAM and older products. Any wafer from any company that have a per wafer yield of less than %50 will be considered by the customers as 'run at risk' (RAR) product lines.

Here are examples of 'risky' product definitions...



Wafer Supply Agreement



1.83 *“Risk Starts”* shall mean Production Wafer Starts for Products that have yet to be accepted by a customer. Process Development Wafers and Product Development Wafers are not Risk Starts.​


https://www.edn.com/tsmc-risk-production-what-does-it-mean-for-28nm/



Before the start of *risk production* the company has already run a number of shuttles with test chips from customers, so foundry and clients are already starting to wring out the more critical structures in the first customer designs.​
RAR products are not confined to just new designs but also from new fabs, new hardware, and/or new processes. A customer can buy wafers/dies from a RAR product line as long as manufacturer and customer are in agreement. RAR products are usually sold at a loss no matter what calculation anyone can use to justify an X price. As a customer, I do not care what it cost you to make that wafer. The per wafer yield is less than %50 and that mean your processes are not good enough. Even if your competitors do not have the same technology, they will have the same products at the older technology so I do not have to take a chance with yours, so here is my X price, take it or leave it.









Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia


What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame




www.theregister.com





The point here is that China is dumping shiddy semicon products onto Russia. Products so shiddy that most of the industry would have scrapped the wafers long before the dies make it to extraction and encapsulation. Russia, as a customer, are in such dire straits that the Russians have no choice but to buy these shiddy semicon products. Most likely, the Russians bought them as packaged (encapped) products. The Kommersant article seems to imply that the Russians installed them without testing them, only to find failures upon equipment running. Or not running. Also note that the article mentioned the gray market so this leave Russia in even worse bargaining position.

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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> it seems according to article , *China sell faulty chips to Russia not China chip making process ids faulty* , the article say before war the fault rate was 2%, after it the rate become 40% and conclude because Russian importers can't go and complain anywhere China actually sell them the faulty chips.
> 
> serve as warning for anybody who don't produce essential industrial chips itself


If the chips are faulty, that mean the processes are faulty. And no processes are perfect. But I will clarify the article some more...









Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia


What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame




www.theregister.com





Let us say I make 100 wafers per week and each wafer have a %2 die failure rate. Now, a prime die is one that does not need repair during the final functional testing step. A die that needs repair would be part of that %2 failure rate even though it is fully functional after the repairs. The repaired die would be sold with a lower product grade and usually at cost. Some products cannot be repaired at all and the wafer must be scrapped. What China did was amass that %2 failed dies, week after week, month after month, and sold them to Russia. That explained the sharp increase of failure rates seen by the Russian electronics manufacturers. Since Russia is already suffering from sanctions, Russia have no legitimate alternatives to China so the Chinese companies are probably gouging the Russians for shiddy semicon products.

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> That is if you retrieve lost Ukrainian territory from Russia. Also, the war in Ukraine is only intensifying. The Russians are changing their tactics constantly. When exactly do you intend to rebuild Ukraine?
> 
> What if Russia annexed more Ukrainian territory in the coming months and probably years? Have you thought of such a scenario? You can shelve your plan to rebuild Ukraine because this war isn't ending anytime soon.


It will get rebuilt as Germany got rebuilt. And Russias funds will go to do that . Lets deal with Ukraine's recovery when we know how much is destroyed. Its not an issue now

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585000939785977856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584992611202306048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584986385391706112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584912936857903104

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> Russia strikes critical infrastructure to provoke new waves of refugees to Europe - Podolyak
> 
> 
> By striking Ukraine’s critical infrastructure, Russia wants to provoke new refugees flee to Europe. — Ukrinform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ukrinform.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do Europeans now respond to Ukrainian refugees?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU weighs Ukraine support as new refugee exodus beckons | Times Leader
> 
> 
> By LORNE COOK BRUSSELS (AP) — European Union leaders are gathering Friday to take stock of their support for Ukraine after President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned that Russia is trying to spark a refugee…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesleader.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Israel won't give lethal aid to Ukraine
> 
> 
> With Hezbollah and Iran knocking on its northern border, and Russian troops deployed in Syria, Israel must be cautious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spectatorworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world hasn't been in a greater crisis since the world wars. Climate crisis. Economic crisis. Territorial conflicts. Food shortages.


Have you been under a rock or just below average IQ to add LOLs. Millions left and have been successfully accomodated (at least by refugee standards). Many went back and now they may leave again. They are not showing as destitute as the Russian coward men who escaped after the order to fight came to non-western countries.

Russians men fled when their infrastructure is not under attack. Ukrainian women and children are fleeing when the infrastructure is at attack.

As for the LOL comment: this is how democracies work. There is always an element that disagrees and they argue it out and possibly may prevail. Putin's example, IF he does NOT win will be death in the sewer like Qaddafi, Saddam (captured in a sewer) because he did not take into account counter opinions.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
> 
> LOL where are those Russians that say the SU-57 are better than the F-35
> 
> "The Su-57 suffers from a low production rate. Export models are unlikely to be available until the end of the decade."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s military aircraft exports are headed for a nosedive
> 
> 
> The military reputation of the Russian Aerospace Forces has been badly tarnished — and that is rubbing off on the aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defensenews.com


And when they do, they will have an iPhone 5 processor in them for its sensors

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> View attachment 888707
> 
> 
> Please papa America. Have mercyha
> 
> The funny thing is, this time around CIA didn't use the Godless communist BS to convince us how evil the commies are.


If in the past the CIA had just been patient and relied on adversaries misguided stupidity (as in this case), the outcomes would have been better. Even if Russia wins by holding on to the regions and Ukraine gives up those regions what is left:
1. Rich gone
2. Many men in technical fields gone.
3. Cut off from all things high-tech
3. No gas exports to Europe. Gone
4. It has oil which will have some value to some countries for the next 15 eyars.
To gain a few 1000 sq Km, Russia is just a cold desolate place with no prosperity, smart people, and no value of its natural resources.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584940540784959492

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584987947778322432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584977032559366146

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584977749017759744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584976094935257093

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584974136312356865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584970178009276416

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## jhungary

Read an intel report saying Wagner and Ramzan Kadyrov is going/planning to do something on Putin, with both dissatisfy Putin initiative on the War. And both are actively recruiting and training personnel. We may see a civil war break out in Russia with Russian troop having their thumb up their arse...

Not say that I would perfer either to take the helm, but it would have been fun to watch the 3 fights against each other...lol. And if I were Either Prigozhin or Kadyrov. If I want to shoot for the top job, the time probably is now.

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## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584976094935257093


I wonder how a Shahed-136 can kill a fighter, if it's very noisy and you can hear it from miles.


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## Ahmadbhutta01

I wonder why is Russia going easy on Ukraine , it can easily withdraw from kherson and other places and bomb it to stone age but Russia is not resorting to it , they may have other plans either way the only loser will be Ukraine while the Jewish pm and president of Ukraine will settle in Israel or somewhere in US who were brought into power by usa

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BHAN85 said:


> I wonder how a Shahed-136 can kill a fighter, if it's very noisy and you can hear it from miles.



Many animals such as cats, dogs, horses, rabbits can determine the direction of a sound. Humans cannot.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585022904957227008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584947468902354948

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584947552923029506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584942908972548101

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584894757083709447

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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I wonder why is Russia going easy on Ukraine , it can easily withdraw from kherson and other places and bomb it to stone age but Russia is not resorting to it , they may have other plans either way the only loser will be Ukraine while the Jewish pm and president of Ukraine will settle in Israel or somewhere in US who were brought into power by usa


They tried to bomb Ukrainian position. That's why they lost over 50 fighters in Ukraine and around the same number of Attack Chopper

Ukraine is a near peer with Advance SAM (Buk, S-300, NASAM, Starstreak, IRIS-T), if Russia cannot gain Air Superiority, without stealth or E-dub, the Russian air force is and do get slaughter over Ukrainian skies. 

And lol, Russia lost this war, both tactically on the battlefront and strategically on the long term. Effectively they may as well apply to be Chinese's 24th province.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

jhungary said:


> They tried to bomb Ukrainian position. That's why they lost over 50 fighters in Ukraine and around the same number of Attack Chopper
> 
> Ukraine is a near peer with Advance SAM (Buk, S-300, NASAM, Starstreak, IRIS-T), if Russia cannot gain Air Superiority, without stealth or E-dub, the Russian air force is and do get slaughter over Ukrainian skies.
> 
> And lol, Russia lost this war, both tactically on the battlefront and strategically on the long term. Effectively they may as well apply to be Chinese's 24th province.


For duck sake Russia can never lose a war against 32 million people against 160 millions , all Russia can do is destroy their energy infrastructure and Ukrainians will die of cold , Putin is not resorting to it , the outer power which wants to weaken Russia is just prolonging this war just to weaken Russia , Putin ain't that stupid . If Putin is to nuke Ukraine what can the world do? West is using Ukraine as a test ground against Russia nothing else they don't care an inch about Ukrainians lives


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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> For duck sake Russia can never lose a war against 32 million people against 160 millions , all Russia can do is destroy their energy infrastructure and Ukrainians will die of cold , Putin is not resorting to it , the outer power which wants to weaken Russia is just prolonging this war just to weaken Russia , Putin ain't that stupid . If Putin is to nuke Ukraine what can the world do? West is using Ukraine as a test ground against Russia nothing else they don't care an inch about Ukrainians lives


Dude, not every Russian fight in the war, nor every Ukrainian fight in the war. The comparisons between Total Population is pointless. I mean, sure 32 millions Ukrainian, how long does it takes for a competent Russian force to kill 32 million people? And we are talking about an inept Russian force.

It does not do anything in the field to destroy Ukrainian infrastructure. Ukrainian military did not use the same grid as the civilian, no military do, the only thing Russia keep bombing power plant will only steel the Ukrainian to fight more so they can push the Russian out and put those infrastructure out of touch with Russia.

Putin use nuke then the West *WILL RESPOND*. Because if the West not response, they may as well pack up NATO and let Russia take over the world. Because the Russian will just keep on doing it until they turn the ties, not just in Ukraine, but anywhere they see fits. Not to mention EVERY COUTRY would want nuke to protect themselves, then UN may as well disband themselves because there will be no more non-proliferation. So the logical conclusion is the west WILL push back, they already up the defence stance, and all NATO traffic has gone dark, if Russia use nuke in Ukraine, NATO WILL fly all their sortie into Ukraine and target any and all Russian force in Ukraine. That's going to push Russia into either losing the conflict or escalate and use strategic nuclear weapon to stop the NATO onslaught. Putin is not stupid, he want to be in control, and you can't control people when everyone dies.

That's the only reason why Russian had not used nuke even they started threaten to use them since April, there are no turn left for Russia, *ALL* their assault are beaten back and now the tides turned to Ukrainian and Russia is about to lose Svatove and Kherson, the atmosphere has been like this since Early September and we are 1 month into Russian official "Annexed" those province,* if Russia are good on their promise, they would have already used nuke.

You have to be stupid or naive or both to think the West will not response if Russia use nuke, they may as well give the world order to Russia. Do you think that would happen??*

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585013171953479681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585079407336574976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584989326290882560

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584802669658771456


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 25​Oct 25, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Riley Bailey, George Barros, and Frederick W. Kagan
October 25, 7:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Members of the Russian siloviki faction continue to voice their dissatisfaction with Russian war efforts in Ukraine, indicating that Russian President Vladimir Putin will continue to struggle to appease the pro-war constituency in the long term. *The Russian _siloviki_ faction refers to people with meaningful power bases within Putin’s inner circle who are fielding combat forces in Ukraine. Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov complained that the Russian response to claimed Ukrainian strikes on Russian territory have been “weak,” noting that Russia must “erase Ukrainian cities from the earth.”[1] Kadyrov also claimed that Russia is now engaged in a war with Ukraine instead of a “special military operation,” given that Ukrainian forces are fighting on “Russian territory.” Kadyrov noted that he is unhappy with the lack of Russian retaliation despite the establishment of martial law. Kadyrov had remained relatively quiet throughout October.
Kadyrov’s statement indirectly criticizes the scale of the Russian missile campaign against Ukrainian energy infrastructure and is in line with milblogger critiques that followed days after the first massive campaign on October 10.[2] ISW has previously assessed that that Putin’s missile campaign is unlikely to satisfy the pro-war nationalist camp in the long term, given that Putin cannot fix the many flaws within the Russian military campaign in Ukraine nor can he deliver his maximalist promises.[3] Kadyrov’s rant also highlights Putin’s error in annexing four Ukrainian oblasts before Russian forces reached the oblasts’ borders, which has created confusion about where “Russian territory” begins. ISW has previously reported that Putin’s annexation of Ukrainian territories has likely triggered criticism within the Kremlin elite, which will likely intensify as Putin loses more occupied territories.[4]
*Russian siloviki have also directly confronted Putin regarding the progress of the Russian war in Ukraine, which further highlights their significance within Russian power structures. *_The Washington Post,_ citing US intelligence, revealed that Wagner Group financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin sharply criticized the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) in a private conversation.[5] Prigozhin reportedly accused the Russian MoD of heavily relying on Wagner forces while failing to finance the group or provide necessary resources, which is consistent with his numerous public statements.[6] Prigozhin has denied ever criticizing the Russian Armed Forces in response to _The Washington Post _report—a denial that is patently false given his repeated public attacks on the MoD.[7]
The criticism revealed by _The Post _further supports ISW’s assessment that Prigozhin holds a unique position that allows him to reap the benefits of Putin’s dependency on Wagner forces without having formal responsibility for any axis or area in Ukraine and while wielding considerable influence in the information space. Prigozhin is accumulating a following on Telegram (with some Wagner-affiliated channels having over 300,000 followers), is directly interacting with online publications, and is reportedly financing the RiaFan (Federal News Agency) media conglomerate.[8] Prigozhin is likely using a growing number of platforms to accrue power and has even previously engaged RiaFan in promoting his September prisoner recruitment drive to Russian audiences.[9] *Putin’s regime is largely dependent on Putin’s monopolization of the state information space, but Prigozhin is increasingly challenging that monopoly.
Prigozhin’s influence in the information space is evident through the positive portrayal of Wagner forces, despite their failure to make significant advances in the Bakhmut area. *Wagner forces have yet to reach Bakhmut despite fighting there since early summer and are reportedly suffering significant losses.[10] Prigozhin himself admitted that Wagner forces advance only 100-200 meters a day, which he absurdly and falsely claimed is the norm for modern warfare.[11] Wagner forces are plagued with the same supply and troop quality issues that Prigozhin‘s criticizes the Russian MoD for allowing to occur within the Russian Armed Forces. Prigozhin, for instance, denied seeing a video in which Wagner troops complained about the lack of food and supplies.[12] The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) also noted that Wagner prisoner recruits suffer from serious infectious diseases like HIV and Hepatitis C, and that Russian doctors are refusing to assist a growing number of infected troops when they are wounded in combat.[13]
Prigozhin is able to shape the narrative within Russian milblogger community by consistently deflecting attention from his forces by demeaning the Russian higher military command. He will likely retain his upper hand despite his forces’ lack of advances given the Russian information restrictions on the Russian MoD. Prigozhin’s close interactions with the media and online community allows him to address any criticism or unfavorable narratives in real time, unlike the Russian MoD or the Kremlin. Prigozhin, for example, denied his involvement with Russian war criminal Igor Girkin less than a day after Russian milbloggers suggested that Girkin is forming a Wagner-based volunteer battalion.[14]
*Russian officials are increasingly attempting to rhetorically align Russia’s war in Ukraine with religious concepts ostensibly accessible to both Christians and Muslims, likely in order to cater to religious minority groups within the Russian armed forces. *Assistant Secretary to the Russian Security Council Alexei Pavlov amplified statements made by Chechen Republic Head Ramzan Kadyrov on October 25 that the goal of the war in Ukraine should be “complete de-Satanization.”[15] Pavlov claimed that Ukrainian society is defined by “fanatics” who seek to abandon values held by the Russian Orthodox church, Islam, and Judaism.[16] Kadyrov also declared that the war on Ukraine is now a jihad against Ukrainian “Satanism.”[17] These statements may represent a desire to deflect dissent among religious minority groups in the Russian Armed Forces. As ISW previously reported, recent schisms between Muslim and non-Muslim servicemen have caused violent outbursts in Russia ranks.[18] The invocation of war on religious but not overtly Christian grounds is likely an attempt to transcend religious divides and set information conditions for continued recruitment of ethnic and religious minorities to fight in Ukraine.
*Russian occupation officials continued to indicate that efforts to “evacuate” civilians in Kherson Oblast to the east bank of Dnipro River are part of a wider resettlement scheme. *Kherson occupation deputy Kirill Stremousov claimed on October 25 that occupation officials have moved over 22,000 people from the west bank of the Dnipro to the east bank and that the administration’s “resettlement program” (программа переселения) is designed to accommodate 60,000 people.[19] Stremousov’s statement seemingly admits that Russian occupation officials view the evacuations as precursors to the permanent resettlement of a large population of Ukrainians. It is unclear where Russian officials intend to “resettle” those who move from the west bank. The implication of a permanent program designed to resettle Ukrainians in other Russian-occupied territories, and even within Russia itself, may amount to a violation of international law.[20] According to international law, an occupying power has the right to evacuate civilians for their safety with the necessary stipulation that such evacuations are temporary.[21] The implication of a “resettlement program” seems to suggest that Russian officials intend to permanently resettle large parts of Kherson Oblast’s population.
*Russian President Vladimir Putin held a coordination council meeting on October 25 in which Moscow Mayor Sergey Sobyanin expressed a need to enact additional security measures in border oblasts, likely indicating that the Kremlin intends to utilize recent martial law decrees.[22] *Putin also said that the Russian government needs to work at a high pace and according to an extremely realistic assessment of the national security situation. Sobyanin indicated that Russian officials are proceeding with planned security measures throughout the Russian Federation. These comments indicate that the Kremlin intends to utilize recent martial law declarations to ease mobilization and military efforts occurring within the Russian Federation.
*Russian independent polling organization Levada posted survey results on October 25 showing that the number of Russians desiring change has declined despite recent societal stresses introduced by sanctions, mobilization, and the war in Ukraine.[23] *The Levada surveys conducted in late September show that the percentage of Russians who believe that Russia needs decisive, full-scale changes decreased from 59 percent in July 2019 to 47 percent in October 2022. The surveys show that the percentage of the Russian public that believes Russia needs only minor changes increased from 31 percent in July 2019 to 36 percent in October 2022 as did the number of Russians who said that Russia needs no change whatsoever, from 8 percent to 13 percent. The Levada surveys show that of those Russians desiring full-scale change, only 11 percent desire a change of government in some fashion. The Levada surveys also show that of those Russians desiring full-scale change, 10 percent desire that the war in Ukraine ends and that Russia begins negotiations with Ukraine. Many changes that Russians wish for are primarily focused on domestic economic issues. 
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian siloviki factions continue to voice dissatisfaction with the Russian war effort in Ukraine, likely indicating that President Vladimir Putin will struggle to appease the pro-war faction.*
*Direct confrontations between Putin and siloviki members regarding the war in Ukraine illustrate the significance of siloviki factions in Russian power structures.*
*Russian officials are likely rhetorically realigning the war in Ukraine with religious ideals ostensibly accessible to both Christians and Muslims to cater to religious and ethnic minorities.*
*Russian occupation officials continue to claim that the evacuations in Kherson Oblast are a part of a larger resettlement program.*
*Levada polling surveys suggest that the Russian public’s sentiments toward the Russian government have not fundamentally changed despite societal pressures associated with the war in Ukraine.*
*Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted ground attacks west of Svatove and on Kreminna on October 25.*
*Russian forces continued to establish fallback and defensive positions on the eastern bank of the Dnipro River.*
*Russian forces conducted unsuccessful ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast.*
*The Russian military continues to mobilize personnel in violation of recruitment policies. Russian mobilization efforts also are placing strains on the Russian labor market.*
*Ukrainian partisans conducted an attack targeting the occupation head in Russian-occupied Zaporizhia Oblast.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Oskil River-Kreminna Line)*
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian troops conducted limited ground attacks west of Svatove on October 25. Russian sources claimed that Russian artillery fire repelled Ukrainian forces during an attempted attack on Kuzemivka, 15km northwest of Svatove.[24] A Russian milblogger also claimed that Ukrainian troops conducted unsuccessful offensive operations along the Raihorodka-Kovalivka line, about 10km southwest of Svatove.[25] Various Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian troops are grouping forces west of Svatove for future counteroffensive operations and that Russian forces are strengthening their defensive positions around Svatove.[26] Ukrainian Luhansk Oblast Head Serhiy Haidai noted that Russian troops mined the entire bank of the Krasna River near Svatove, apparently in anticipation of potential Ukrainian advances.[27]
Russian sources additionally claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted an unsuccessful frontal assault on Kreminna on October 25.[28] Russian milbloggers claimed that Russian troops repelled the attack.[29] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian troops repelled a Russian attack on Bilohorivka, about 10km south of Kreminna, suggesting that Russian troops are continuing efforts to retake lost positions along the Donetsk-Luhansk Oblast border.[30] 



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Russian forces continued to establish fallback positions near the Dnipro River on October 25. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are preparing defensive positions on the eastern bank of the Dnipro River and are mining the coastline near Hornostaivka, about 40km northeast of Nova Kakhovka.[31] The Ukrainian General Staff added that Russian forces are leaving small passages for a potential retreat and are attempting to repair destroyed pontoon crossings.[32] Russian milbloggers claimed that the Russian military command has not decided on the fate of Kherson City, given the ongoing situation in Kherson Oblast.[33] Other milbloggers argued that Russian forces will be unable to hold Kherson City and that the Russian government can prevent a “Battle of Stalingrad” by fully withdrawing to the eastern bank of the Dnipro River.[34]
Ukrainian and Russian sources provided limited insight into the situation on the frontlines in Kherson Oblast. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command stated that Ukrainian forces repelled two small-scale assaults by a platoon and a detachment in two unspecified areas on October 24.[35] Ukrainian military officials also reported that Russian forces continued to shell Ukrainian positions along the line of contact and struck Nova Kamianka in northern Kherson Oblast.[36] Ukrainian forces also reportedly shot down two Iranian-made Shahed-131 drones in Kherson Raion.[37] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian attacks in the direction of Ishchenka and Bruskinske in northern Kherson Oblast.[38] Geolocated footage also showed Ukrainian artillery striking a Russian tank in Kalynivske, approximately 47km northwest of Nova Kakhovka.[39]
Ukrainian forces continued to target Russian positions and logistics in Kherson Oblast. The Ukrainian General Staff stated that a recent precision strike on Kairy (about 27km northeast of Nova Kakhovka) killed up to 30 Russian servicemen and left over 100 troops under the rubble.[40] Recent combat footage seems to confirm this report and indicates that the strike likely hit Chechen forces.[41] The Ukrainian General Staff added that Ukrainian forces also destroyed an ammunition depot in Hornostaivka.[42] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command noted that Ukrainian forces struck three ammunition depots in Beryslav and Kakhovka raions, and shot down three Russian attack helicopters.[43] Ukrainian sources published footage of explosion sounds in Khakovka Raion on October 25.[44]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to conduct unsuccessful ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on October 25. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults on Bakhmut itself; northeast of Bakhmut near Bakhmutske (11km northeast of Bakhmut), Soledar (13km northeast of Bakhmut), Bilohorivka (23km northeast of Bakhmut), Verkhnokamianske (33km northeast of Bakhmut), and Spirne (30km north of Bakhmut); and south of Bakhmut near Ivanhrad (4km southeast of Bakhmut) and Klishchiivka (7km southwest of Bakhmut).[45] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian attacks southwest of Avdiivka near Mariinka (28km southwest of Avdiivka) and Nevelske (15km south of Avdiivka).[46] The Donetsk Peoples Republic (DNR) People’s Militia announced on October 25 that the “battle for Avdiivka is in full swing” and Russian forces intend to encircle Avdiivka.[47] Russian forces are unlikely to encircle Avdiivka given the poor performance of Russian offensives near Avdiivka since the beginning of the war. A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian operational encirclements of Avdiivka and Vuhledar in Donetsk Oblast are impossible as recent Russian offensives in the areas illustrate that Russian forces are unable to make rapid advances.[48] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued to conduct indirect fire along the line of contact in Donetsk Oblast on October 25.[49]
Chechen Republic Head Ramzan Kadyrov claimed that Chechen units continue to play an outsized role in Russian operations in Donetsk Oblast. Kadyrov claimed on October 25 that Chechen State Duma Deputy Adam Delimkhanov has directly coordinated the actions of Chechen forces fighting in Donetsk Oblast since the start of the Russian offensive campaign in Ukraine.[50] Kadyrov also claimed that “Akhmat” special forces are directly responsible for more than 100km of territory in Donetsk Oblast.[51] Kadyrov repeated claims that the Russian military leadership routinely praises Chechen elements for their fighting in eastern Ukraine.[52] Kadyrov and associates will continue to try to frame Chechen elements as significant formations among the Russian forces fighting in Donetsk Oblast.



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued to conduct routine air, missile, and artillery strikes west of Hulyaipole, and in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv oblasts on October 25.[53] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck Nikopol in Dnipropetrovsk Oblast and Ochakiv and Bereznehuvate in Mykolaiv Oblast.[54] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces also conducted drone attacks on Nikopol and Bashtanka Raion in Mykolaiv Oblast on October 25.[55] Ukraine’s General Staff reported that Russian forces did not conduct any ground attacks in the Zaporizhia direction on October 25.[56]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
The Russian military continues to mobilize Russian men—including those from ethnic minority republics—in violation of published Russian recruitment policies. _Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty _reported that Russian authorities mobilized 200 fathers with multiple children who are legally eligible for mobilization deferral in the Republic of Bashkortostan.[57] The report found that local Russian military commissariats flatly ignore or find legal arguments to circumvent deferment eligibility criteria. Mobilized men from Bashkortostan fighting near Enerhodar reportedly did not receive proper training, are running low on food, and are sleeping in a dirty granary with grain, mice, and pools of standing water.[58] A Moscow man legally entitled to mobilization deferment due to being the parent of three children was reportedly mobilized anyway on October 23 despite Moscow Mayor Sergey Sobyanin’s announcement that mobilization in Moscow ended on October 17.[59]
Russia’s military mobilization is causing workers to flee Russia, placing stress on the Russian labor market. Russian independent outlet _Verstka _reported on October 25 that Russian officials from local Moscow government offices are fleeing Russia en masse to avoid mobilization.[60] _Verstka _reported that between 20 to 30 percent of male IT employees from some departments within the Moscow City Hall fled Moscow, depriving Moscow local government departments of IT support for days. _Verstka _reported that employees from the Russian Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Digital Development, and the Central Bank are similarly fleeing Russia. Russian business newspaper _RBK _reported that demand for temporary employees working under fixed-term contracts increased by 52 percent in the first half of October 2022.[61] _RBK_ reported that temporary employees replaced mobilized workers so that mobilized workers (such as couriers, sales managers, and drivers) do not lose their positions while serving.[62] A Russian source reported that the mobilization of dozens of bus drivers in Voronezh is placing stress on public transit, with wait times between bus services increasing.[63] A large Russian agrobusiness in Tyumen Oblast reported losing a significant portion of its workers to mobilization and announced incentives to recruit more laborers.[64]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Ukrainian partisans conducted a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device (VBIED) attack against a building owned by the head of the Zaporizhia occupation administration in Melitopol on October 25. Russian media and Ukrainian sources reported that a car exploded near the headquarters of the Russian propaganda channel _ZaTV _where a Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) branch was reportedly deployed_._[65] Various sources reported that the building belongs to Zaporizhia occupation head Yevheny Balitsky, who was not present at the time of the attack.[66] Russian milbloggers called the event a “terrorist attack” and called for more stringent law enforcement protections in occupied areas.[67]
Russian occupation officials continued to move personnel, equipment, and occupation assets to the east bank of the Dnipro River on October 25. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian officials are continuing to move bank equipment and personnel and occupation administrators, as well as civilians, across the Dnipro River to Henichesk and Skadovsk, 175km and 60km southeast of Kherson City, respectively.[68] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally noted that medical personnel are subject to evacuation and that Russian officials have pulled funding and are no longer providing meals for school children who remain on the west bank.[69] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that mobilized servicemen are arriving in Lvove (40km east of Kherson City) to replace evacuated collaborators.[70] Kherson Occupation Deputy Kirill Stremousov claimed that Russian occupation officials have evacuated over 22,000 people from the west bank of the Dnipro River as of October 25.[71] Russian milbloggers noted that the decision to leave Kherson City is a chiefly political one and claimed that the evacuations are voluntary.[72]
Russian occupation officials are struggling to enforce the use of rubles in occupied territories, despite long-standing efforts to conduct rubleization measures. Stremousov reprimanded those who “refuse to accept rubles” in a video address on October 25 and claimed that after the situation in Kherson Oblast stabilizes, those who refuse to use rubles will be forcibly expelled from Kherson Oblast, which he claimed will adhere exclusively to the laws of the Russian Federation.[73] Stremousov’s statement reflects frustration on the part of Russian occupation officials in the face of recent reports that Ukrainian residents of Russian-occupied areas in Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblast are refusing to use rubles and that Russian soldiers are exchanging their rubles for hryvnias in order to make purchases.[74] ISW previously reported that Russian authorities in occupied areas had escalated efforts at rubleization in early August, and Stremousov’s statements suggest that Russian occupation officials have struggled in their efforts to economically integrate occupied areas into systems of the Russian Federation.[75]
*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update.*
[1] https://meduza dot io/news/2022/10/25/kadyrov-nazval-slabym-otvet-na-obstrely-territorii-rossii-prizval-stirat-s-zemli-goroda-i-nazyvat-spetsoperatsiyu-voynoy
[2] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[3] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***... https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[4] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[5] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/10/25/putin-inside...
[6] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***... https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[7] https://****/Prigozhin_hat/1873
[8] https://securingdemocracy.gmfus.org/the-illusion-of-a-russian-media-empi... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-19/sites-linked-to-putin...
[9] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/16/world/europe/russia-wagner-ukraine-vi... https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[10] https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvmpa4/vladimir-putin-wagner-ukraine; h...
[11] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[12] https://meduza.io/feature/2022/10/25/the-washington-post-raskryla-imya-c...
[13] https://gur.gov(dot)ua/content/vahnerivtsi-masovo-rekrutuiut-viazniv-khvorykh-na-vil-ta-hepatyt.html
[14] https://****/Prigozhin_hat/1871; https://****/aleksandr_skif/2450; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[15] https://aif dot ru/society/religion/chto_varyat_v_vedminom_kotle_na_ukraine_nabrali_silu_neoyazycheskie_kulty; https://****/s/RKadyrov_95
[16] https://aif.ru/society/religion/chto_varyat_v_vedminom_kotle_na_ukraine_...
[17] https://****/s/RKadyrov_95
[18] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[19] https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/611
[20] https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/population-displace...
[21] https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/population-displace...
[22] http://kremlin dot ru/events/president/news/69676;
[23] https://www dot levada.ru/2022/10/25/zhelanie-peremen/
[24] https://****/mod_russia/21174; https://****/rybar/40576
[25] https://****/rybar/40576
[26] https://****/rybar/40576; https://****/boris_rozhin/68387; https://t.m...
[27] https://****/luhanskaVTSA/6490 ; https://****/serhiy_hayday/8467
[28] https://****/kommunist/12150; https://****/vysokygovorit/9782 
[29] https://****/kommunist/12150; https://****/vysokygovorit/9782; https:/...
[30] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0nwmJqkCQGc3r91tJtpx...

[31] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0nwmJqkCQGc3r91tJtpx... 
[32] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0cTgZPHqH75xHHYfqz2J...
[33] https://****/wargonzo/8867; https://****/boris_rozhin/68387
[34] https://****/boris_rozhin/68387 
[35]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=780451049714709




[36] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0nwmJqkCQGc3r91tJtpx...
[37]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=780451049714709




[38] https://****/mod_russia/21174 
[39] https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1584645751119806464 ; https://twi...
[40] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0cTgZPHqH75xHHYfqz2J...
[41]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584777827077206017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584778335069958144[42] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0cTgZPHqH75xHHYfqz2J...
[43]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=780451049714709




[44] https://****/stranaua/71827
[45] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0nwmJqkCQGc3r91tJtpx...
[46] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0nwmJqkCQGc3r91tJtpx...
[47] https://****/nm_dnr/9283
[48] https://****/boris_rozhin/68387
[49] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0cTgZPHqH75xHHYfqz2J...
[50] https://****/RKadyrov_95/3029
[51] https://****/RKadyrov_95/3030
[52] https://****/RKadyrov_95/3030
[53] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0nwmJqkCQGc3r91tJtpx...
https://****/vilkul/2149 ; https://****/Yevtushenko_E/1156 ; https...
[54] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0cTgZPHqH75xHHYfqz2J...
[55]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=508100931189969




[56] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0cTgZPHqH75xHHYfqz2J...
[57] https://****/idelrealii/21492
[58] https://****/ostorozhno_novosti/12174 ; https://****/ostorozhno_novosti/12173
[59] https://****/msk_gde/1537 ; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[60] https://meduza dot io/feature/2022/10/25/uezzhayut-ostaviv-na-rabochem-meste-veschi-ne-pomyv-kruzhku
[61] https://www.rbc dot ru/economics/24/10/2022/63527ce09a7947deae987f58
[62] https://www.rbc dot ru/economics/24/10/2022/63527ce09a7947deae987f58
[63] https://****/chtddd/56499
[64] https://****/neft_media/4262
[65] https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1584807054258364416 ; https...(dot)ua/2022/10/25/v-czentri-melitopolya-prolunav-vybuh-poblyzu-biznes-czentru-golovnogo-gaulyajtera/; https://****/readovkanews/45288; https://twitter.com/Cosmonaut19/status... https://****/ZaTV_Media/3536; https://****/stranaua/71544; https://t.m...



[66] https://sprotyv.mod.gov(dot)ua/2022/10/25/v-czentri-melitopolya-prolunav-vybuh-poblyzu-biznes-czentru-golovnogo-gaulyajtera/; https://****/itsdonetsk/36527; https://****/The3rdForceUA/11883; https... 
[67] https://****/rybar/40570; https://****/readovkanews/45288; https://****/ZaTV_Media/3536;
[68] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0nwmJqkCQGc3r91tJtpx...
[69] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0nwmJqkCQGc3r91tJtpx...
[70] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0nwmJqkCQGc3r91tJtpx...
[71] https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/611
[72] https://****/voenkorKotenok/42028
[73] https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/612; https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/606
[74] https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/10/24/meshkanczi-tymchasovo-okupovanyh-terytorij-ignoruyut-rosijski-rubli/; https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/1584160299560894464 ; https://t... 
[75] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign... https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...


File Attachments: 



Kherson-Mykolaiv Battle Map Draft October 25,2022.png



Donetsk Battle Map Draft October 25,2022.png



DraftUkraineCoTOCtober25,2022.png



Kharkiv Battle Map Draft October 25,2022.png

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## The SC

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I wonder why is Russia going easy on Ukraine , it can easily withdraw from kherson and other places and bomb it to stone age but Russia is not resorting to it , they may have other plans either way the only loser will be Ukraine while the Jewish pm and president of Ukraine will settle in Israel or somewhere in US who were brought into power by usa


Nope ..Because Kherson is considered Russian territories now.. as simple as that,,

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## Menthol

jhungary said:


> Read an intel report saying Wagner and Ramzan Kadyrov is going/planning to do something on Putin, with both dissatisfy Putin initiative on the War. And both are actively recruiting and training personnel. We may see a civil war break out in Russia with Russian troop having their thumb up their arse...
> 
> Not say that I would perfer either to take the helm, but it would have been fun to watch the 3 fights against each other...lol. And if I were Either Prigozhin or Kadyrov. If I want to shoot for the top job, the time probably is now.



Both of them sound like good people.

But they are actually dangering Russia's national security.

And big traitors.

For the same logic...

If Russia decided to build nuclear missile launchers in Cuba, is it good for any USA president who opposes it to step down?

Of course not.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585001219558297600

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585076091865436161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585076093559529472

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## Reashot Xigwin

Deino said:


> Why do I have that strange feeling, Russia‘s constant claims on Ukrainian Nazis is nothing but a diversionary tactic.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584849599449399298


Then you probably won't like this too

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584913856534568960

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585044215247273991

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585028995816763393

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## Reashot Xigwin

The Russian has been kicked out of Bakhmut and Kherson is next

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584904853360463872

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632915992150016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632927690055680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632967850139648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632975144022017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632980349194240


https://twitter.com/UnrollHelper/status/1585083594757791746




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584991242714517504

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> that's not my logic that's NATO and USA logic , and double use technology and industry is the term you guys used to prevent letting Iran buy medical equipment like CT-scan , Ultrasonographic and Gama-scan devices also equipment to produce vaccines and drugs. we learnt it from you guys


Bombing a factory which produces washing machines is likely to violate the principle of proportionality, and thus a war crime.
That says that the military value of a target must be high enough to motivate the damage to civilians.
Since Western military equipment does not use commercial grade electronics, microcontrollers in washing machines does not have a military value.
Russia, not being competent in designing electronics, have to use commercial components, so they have a military value in Russian hands.


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## A.P. Richelieu

gambit said:


> Actually, I do. Am currently working for a major semicon company making NAND, NOR, and DRAM. Sometimes for specific customers, we will make SRAM and older products. Any wafer from any company that have a per wafer yield of less than %50 will be considered by the customers as 'run at risk' (RAR) product lines.
> 
> Here are examples of 'risky' product definitions...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wafer Supply Agreement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sec.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.83 *“Risk Starts”* shall mean Production Wafer Starts for Products that have yet to be accepted by a customer. Process Development Wafers and Product Development Wafers are not Risk Starts.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.edn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before the start of *risk production* the company has already run a number of shuttles with test chips from customers, so foundry and clients are already starting to wring out the more critical structures in the first customer designs.​
> RAR products are not confined to just new designs but also from new fabs, new hardware, and/or new processes. A customer can buy wafers/dies from a RAR product line as long as manufacturer and customer are in agreement. RAR products are usually sold at a loss no matter what calculation anyone can use to justify an X price. As a customer, I do not care what it cost you to make that wafer. The per wafer yield is less than %50 and that mean your processes are not good enough. Even if your competitors do not have the same technology, they will have the same products at the older technology so I do not have to take a chance with yours, so here is my X price, take it or leave it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia
> 
> 
> What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theregister.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point here is that China is dumping shiddy semicon products onto Russia. Products so shiddy that most of the industry would have scrapped the wafers long before the dies make it to extraction and encapsulation. Russia, as a customer, are in such dire straits that the Russians have no choice but to buy these shiddy semicon products. Most likely, the Russians bought them as packaged (encapped) products. The Kommersant article seems to imply that the Russians installed them without testing them, only to find failures upon equipment running. Or not running. Also note that the article mentioned the gray market so this leave Russia in even worse bargaining position.


If you buy wafers, then you are prepared to pay more for a wafer if the yield is guaranteed, but normal people are interested in the cost of a working die in a package.

Wafer sales is a niche market, and as You say Russia is likely to buy packaged die, and for those, the price is lower if the yield is higher. Memories are definitely governed by this rule.


Still You did not explain why someone would


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## zectech

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585044215247273991
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585028995816763393



That curse stuff is for idiots. Same with the Assad curse. Israel wants Assad in, to have a divided weak Syria. Netanyahu has said this. Putins rabbi has said this. Syrian rebels have pointed this out nearly a decade ago.









Netanyahu: Israel has no problem with Assad, agreements must be upheld


***




www.haaretz.com





A dictator of Assad is going to out last democracies that have leaders come and go.

A president of Ukraine with a long term limit is going to outlast PM whose governments fail, and new PMs are chosen. Italy has many PMs. There was no Ukraine curse in Italy having new PMs. From 2010-2020, Italy had 6 PMs.

Belief in the Assad curse is for the low IQ and weak minded.

Same with the "Zelensky curse". Putin is trying to destabilize Europe and the Russia shills say Zelensky has some curse to harm governments. This is Russia blaming Russian enemies for the economic and inflation crisis that Russia did to Europe.

Russia Republicans are giddy about the Saudis cutting oil production to harm Democrats in the 2022 election. If you can't figure out the Russian faction is trying to destroy the economy to take over the globe, you have not been paying attention.

Gale of stupid laughter

|
|
|
|
\/

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## khansaheeb

Ukraine latest: Russia notifies U.S. of planned nuclear exercises


Zara set to exit Russian market; Zelenskyy wishes British PM Sunak success




asia.nikkei.com





UKRAINE WAR: FREE TO READ
Ukraine latest: Russia notifies U.S. of planned nuclear exercises​Zara set to exit Russian market; Zelenskyy wishes British PM Sunak success





Russian President Putin during a past military exercise. The U.S. has been informed of upcoming drills by Russia's nuclear forces, the Pentagon says. © Reuters
October 7, 2022 17:46 JSTUpdated on October 26, 2022 05:29 JST
The Russian invasion of Ukraine that began on Feb. 24 continues, with casualties rising on both sides.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has announced Russia's annexation of four partially occupied Ukrainian regions following referendums that Western nations called a "sham."
Meanwhile, Ukrainian forces are mounting a strong counteroffensive against Russian troops, reclaiming territory lost when Moscow launched its invasion. Ukraine has managed to withstand the Russian onslaught with the help of Western military aid, but President Volodymyr Zelenskyy regularly calls on the world to do more. For all our coverage, visit our Ukraine war page.
Read our in-depth coverage:
Indo-Pacific more crucial because of Ukraine war: U.K.'s top diplomat
Putin suggests Turkey become regional 'gas hub' to Europe
Germany should provide more weapons to Ukraine, ex-president says
Putin's nuclear threat is real: Wladimir Klitschko
Asia Stream: Asia's Balancing Act with Russia
*Note:* Nikkei Asia decided on March 5 to suspend its reporting from Russia until further information becomes available regarding the scope of the revised criminal code. Entries include material from wire services and other sources.
Here are the latest developments:
*Wednesday, Oct. 26 (Tokyo time)
5:08 a.m.* Russia has given the U.S. notice of planned exercises of nuclear forces -- drills expected to include test-launching ballistic missiles.
"The U.S. was notified, and, as we've highlighted before, this is a routine annual exercise by Russia," said Pentagon spokesman Patrick Ryder, an Air Force brigadier general, in a news briefing. "And so in this regard, Russia is complying with its arms control obligations and its transparency commitments ... to make those notifications."
*4:57 a.m.* Zara owner Inditex has announced an initial agreement to sell its Russian business to the United Arab Emirates-based Daher group, which has interests in retailing and real estate.
The Spanish apparel group had paused Russian sales in March. It explicitly leaves the door open for returning in the future under a franchise agreement with Daher.
*1:00 a.m.* Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has congratulated new U.K. Prime Minister Rishi Sunak on taking office.
"I wish you to successfully overcome all the challenges facing British society and the whole world today," Zelenskyy says in a Twitter post.
Zelenskyy had a cordial relationship with former U.K. leader Boris Johnson, who put Ukraine at the top of his foreign-policy agenda and visited the country multiple times after Russia's invasion. Johnson's successor Liz Truss pledged continued support for Kyiv but resigned after just six weeks in office.


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## gambit

A.P. Richelieu said:


> If you buy wafers, then you are prepared to pay more for a wafer if the yield is guaranteed, but normal people are interested in the cost of a working die in a package.
> 
> Wafer sales is a niche market, and as You say Russia is likely to buy packaged die, and for those, the price is lower if the yield is higher. Memories are definitely governed by this rule.
> 
> 
> Still You did not explain why someone would


Each wafer have dies of three main grades: Prime, then grades 2 and 3. Overall, the prices for each grade decreases with maturity and maturity equals to higher yield and *CONSISTENT* yield. Even so, the prime dies will command higher prices than product grades 2 and 3.

At tech nodes below 20 nm, customers are less likely to be interested in buying PGL 2 and 3 dies, whether it is in wafer sales or packaged forms. I said 'less likely', not never. The reason is because at lower than 20 nm, the physical structures of the cell, whether it is processor memory, is small enough that manufacturing defects will create even greater unpredictable *FUTURE* failure modes. Imagine the cell structures like that of the walls and roof of houses, now imagine them thinner and thinner with each construction of each new house. There will be a point where you can no longer predict how the house will collapse in a storm or even a spring rain. There is a testing process call 'wafer level reliability' (WLR) testing.





__





Wafer Level Reliability Testing White Paper






www.lricks.com





Basically, what WLR does is extreme stress on the cell with higher voltage, current, and temperature, then there are fancy algos to calculate the product's estimate lifespans. Since memory is in the news these days, I will use NAND for an example...





__





Loading…






www.ictest8.com





One of the top five testing conditions is called the 'checkerboard' pattern.






The wafer's dies are injected with ones and zeros in a checkerboard pattern. At tech nodes below 20 nm, the walls between the dies can be thin enough due to various manufacturing defects that data (1) can leak into adjacent (0) dies. Now create the pattern with higher voltage, current, and temperature. By higher temperature, I mean hot enough to bake a pizza or lasagna. Going back to the house analogy, imagine living with your parents and hear them having sex or arguing in the next room. That is data leakage. At tech nodes below 20 nm for some products, prime dies commands the highest contract and spot market prices, PGL 2 dies sells at cost or loss, and PLG 3 dies are scrapped. For other memory products, PGL 3 dies can sell to Joe Schmoe Memory Emporium run out of someone's garage in the middle of Montana or Kansas.

So why would anyone sell such low grade/quality semicon products? To answer your question with a question -- Why not? China have nothing to lose but much Russian cash to gain. Chinese gray markets are notorious at being skilled enough to get their hands on wafers that should have been scrapped. They get them via shell companies that buy these lower grades wafers/dies ostensibly to be used in toys or non-critical electronics. Then they repackage the dies into something 'respectable' looking and sell at a profit.

China is screwing Russia over, if this article is true.









Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia


What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame




www.theregister.com





The effects of this ffukking over will not be felt for some time because the semicon crap that Russia is buying now still need to go thru their manufacturing pipelines. Put aside the nuclear option for now and assume Russia is defeated. The economic and technological sanctions from the West will not be lifted and that leave China as the only seller for anything semicon. Russian electronics makers will have no choice but to drop trou, bend over, spread cheeks, and take it without lube. Their companies' reputations for shoddy products, from toasters to cars, will suffer, going back to the Soviet era.

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Then you probably won't like this too
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584913856534568960


Russia imperialists meet religious mullahs. Putin wants to sastify Iran the new friend. People get used to it. Iran regularly calls the US as “satan”.


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## Viet




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## zectech

There is a plan to destroy the global economy and have Putin and Trump take over Europe politically with destabilization, economically with bitcoin after the collapse of currencies, and militarily in Ukraine and perhaps elsewhere. cia Russian Republicans support Putin and Trump. cia asset kissinger support Putin and Trump. So do cia asset tucker, cia asset Musk, cia asset Berlusconi. The other cia shills around the globe are for this Trump, Putin, bitcoin plan to have Putin be the catalyst into a loss of freedoms and liberty.

Yeltsin was a cia puppet, says Former Chairman of the Russian Parliament. Yeltsin picked Putin with the cia vetting Putin. Putin is as fake a populist as Trump. Both are cia assets.









Boris Yeltsin had entourage of ‘hundreds’ of CIA agents


TEHRAN, Jun. 12 (MNA) – The former chairman of Russia’s parliament says the first Russian president, Boris Yeltsin, was surrounded by “hundreds” of CIA agents who told him what to do throughout his tenure as leader




en.mehrnews.com





The cia is the deepstate that is the shadow government in the US, and their deepstate leader is Trump in the US:









The Real Deep State Is Trump


How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom




newrepublic.com





Making the Qanon bitcoin movement a cia movement:









Donald Trump is the QAnon president. And he's proud of it | Richard Wolffe


Under his leadership, and with his support, QAnon candidates like Marjorie Taylor Greene in Georgia are on a fast track to elected office




www.theguardian.com





Satoshi Nakamoto Means “Central Intelligence”. Satoshi Nakamoto literally translates to "Central Intelligent/Intelligence" in Japanese.









4 Reasons to Believe the Deep State (or the NSA) Created Bitcoin


Since 2009, there have been many theories of whom created Bitcoin. Some even think the NSA created it.




www.ccn.com





Bitcoin is extremely scarce and a global economy based on bitcoin would immediately have a system of haves and have nots. Super wealthy in bitcoin, and those in abject poverty of the new currency. The super wealthy would buy whole countries, the poor would be slaves in the new system.

I covered this in a previous post on how during the gold standard, the poor demanded more silver into money to help increase the money supply for the people. With bitcoin, it is going to be the bitcoin robber barons, and the poor.

Satoshi Nakamoto (cia) mined 1 million btc in the first few years. 5% of the supply of bitcoin owned by the cia. Other cia shills are aware of this replacement of currencies and national central banks to the new central bank of bitcoin.

This roll out is planned to happen with Putin shills in the capitals of Europe. Russian system of autocracy and no freedoms exported around the globe. cia controlling things hidden from view. This is the plan. Do you want no freedom, poverty for the good, and no access to truth/information as Russia has a of lack of freedom of thought, speech and information.

This guy is pretty close to things:






Where he is off on things. Is the cia founded bitcoin, as stated above, while Putin and Trumpers are part of the promoting bitcoin agenda. For the purpose of preventing gold and silver returning as money when the central banks collapse from monetary hyperinflation crisis.

Washington wanted to control dollars and anti-dollars. The anti-dollars were gold reserves. Washington hates gold and silver, you can't have endless wars with gold and silver, since you cannot print gold and silver. The debt money we have as our currencies funds economic growth and funds government spending and sustainable debt.

The Bush cia in 2006-2008 was panicked by gold and silver getting out of control, fearful of the mainstream buying of gold and silver by investors concerned about currency collapse, the cia invented bitcoin to be the replacement of gold commodity. Bitcoin was recently called a commodity by the US government:









Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity


The comment was notable, as the market has been operating under a different assumption




www.axios.com





Putin is a cia Trump asset. Putin is a cia Yeltsin appointee. Therefore part of the agenda by cia Republicans to destroy the economy and have bitcoin as the global currency.

So yes, Putin and the alt-wrong are behind bitcoin. So is Trump and Qanon behind bitcoin.

cia and cia allies and cia assets are the largest owners of bitcoin. And therefore are to own the globe after bitcoin becomes the global currency.

The plan is for bitcoin to go to 100 million dollars (in today's dollar valuation) per bitcoin. And collapse the currencies to get there.

Gales of Stupid laughter in 5, 4, 3, 2,....


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## OverandOut

Source: The Unz Review


> “Every dead Russian and Ukrainian in this war, every family anywhere in the world that suffers the consequences of this war, every business that shuts down because of the economic damage this war is causing and the increased risk of nuclear annihilation, it’s all US Govt made.” Twitter @KimDotcom
> Proxy War (def)– a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.


Written by *Mike Whitney*. Originally published by *The Unz Review*

Ukrainian gains on the battlefield have been met by a widely-anticipated Russian escalation. On September 21, in a rare national address, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the mobilsation of 300,000 reservists who would be called to serve in the war in Ukraine.

In recent weeks, the Russian army has suffered a number of setbacks due to its lack of sufficient manpower in the battlespace. Simply put, the Russians did not have enough combat troops to carry out their mission or to defend the vast area that has recently been annexed by Moscow. Russia’s Special Military Operation was never designed to seize and occupy great swaths of Ukrainian territory. In essence, the SMO was a police operation aimed at locating and eliminating the Ukrainian forces that had been bombarding and killing ethnic Russians living in east Ukraine.

After numerous clashes with advancing NATO-trained battalions, it’s clear that Russia needs significant reinforcements to roll back Ukrainian forces and impose a security buffer around its new provinces. Russia’s critics see the under-staffing as an indication of military incompetence but, in fact, Moscow is merely adapting to a fluid situation in which both parties continue to raise the stakes. Here is an excerpt from a post by Big Serge at Substack that helps to clarify what’s going on:



> Of all the phantasmagorical claims that have been made about the Russo-Ukrainian War, few are as difficult to believe as the claim that Russia intended to conquer Ukraine with fewer than 200,000 men. Indeed, a central truth of the war that observers simply must come to grasp with is the fact that the Russian army has been badly outnumbered from day one…. On paper, Russia has committed an expeditionary force of less than 200,000 men, though of course that full amount has not been on the frontline in active combat lately.
> The light force deployment is related to Russia’s rather unique service model, which has combined “contract soldiers” – the professional core of the army – with a reservist pool that is generated with an annual conscription wave….The transition from a Soviet mobilization scheme to a smaller, leaner, professional ready force was part and parcel of Russia’s neoliberal austerity regime throughout much of the Putin years.
> …. This Russian contract force can still accomplish a great deal, militarily speaking – it can destroy Ukrainian military installations, wreak havoc with artillery, bash its way into urban agglomerations in the Donbas, and destroy much of Ukraine’s indigenous war-making potential. It cannot, however, wage a multi-year continental war against an enemy which outnumbers it by at least four to one, and which is sustained with intelligence, command and control, and material which are beyond its immediate reach…
> More force deployment is needed. Russia must transcend the neoliberal austerity army. It has the material capacity to mobilize the needed forces – it has many millions in its reservist pool, enormous inventories of equipment, and indigenous production capacity undergirded by the natural resources and production potential of the Eurasian bloc that has closed ranks around it. But remember – military mobilization is also political mobilization.” (“Politics By Other Means; Putin and Clausewitz”, Big Serge Thoughts, Substack)


Russia’s critics, of course, will dismiss this explanation as nonsense, even so, the calling up of 300,000 reservists shows that Putin’s generals realize they cannot achieve their strategic objectives with merely an “expeditionary force” but must adjust to changes on the ground. And that is precisely what they are doing; they are beefing up their forces at a time when Putin’s public approval rating is at an eye-watering 77%. So, while an earlier mobilization would have undoubtedly been met with widespread condemnation and rejection, the great majority of Russians now fully support the policy. Simply put, Putin has won the hearts and minds of the Russian people. He has convinced them that their country, traditions, culture and lives face an unprecedented existential threat. Here’s more from Big Serge:



> Putin and those around him conceived of the Russo-Ukrainian War in existential terms from the very beginning. It is unlikely, however, that most Russians understood this….
> What has happened in the months since February 24 is rather remarkable. The existential war for the Russian nation has been incarnated and made real for Russian citizens. Sanctions and anti-Russian propaganda – demonizing the entire nation as “orcs” – has rallied even initially skeptical Russians behind the war, and Putin’s approval rating has soared. A core western assumption, that Russians would turn on the government, has reversed. Videos showing the torture of Russian POWs by frothing Ukrainians, of Ukrainian soldiers calling Russian mothers to mockingly tell them their sons are dead, of Russian children killed by shelling in Donetsk, have served to validate Putin’s implicit claim that Ukraine is a demon possessed state that must be exorcised with high explosives… The government of Ukraine (in now deleted tweets) publicly claimed that Russians are prone to barbarism because they are a mongrel race with Asiatic blood mixing.” (Big Serge, Substack)


In short, the establishment media and political class have made Putin’s job easier for him by persuading even left-leaning Russians that the western nations –led by the US– despise all-things Russian and are determined to destroy their country and subjugate their people. Here’s Putin:



> I want to underscore again that their insatiability and determination to preserve their unfettered dominance are the real causes of the hybrid war that the collective West is waging against Russia. They do not want us to be free; they want us to be a colony. They do not want equal cooperation; they want to loot. They do not want to see us a free society, but a mass of soulless slaves….I would like to remind you that in the past, ambitions of world domination have repeatedly shattered against the courage and resilience of our people. Russia will always be Russia. We will continue to defend our values and our Motherland.
> We have never agreed to and will never agree to such political nationalism and racism. What else, if not racism, is the Russophobia being spread around the world? What, if not racism, is the West’s dogmatic conviction that its civilisation and neoliberal culture is an indisputable model for the entire world to follow?…
> Today, we are fighting so that it would never occur to anyone that Russia, our people, our language, or our culture can be erased from history. Today, we need a united society, and this unification can only be based on sovereignty, freedom, creation, and justice. Our values are humanity, mercy and compassion.” (Speech on the Accession of the New Regions to Russia, Vladimir Putin, Unz Review)


According to Putin, the collective west wants to plunder Russia, enslave its people, and create a colony whose wealth can be siphoned off by tyrannical bigots and foreign profiteers. The media’s relentless attack on Russian athletes, scholars, scientists, musicians and even businessmen has only reinforced the view among ordinary Russians that they have entered the crosshairs of a violent and out-of-control western coalition that intends to deliver the same lethal death-blow to Russia that they did to Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and countless other nations. Putin’s soaring public approval ratings underscore the fact that most Russians think the threat is real and that the battle must be joined. Here’s more from Big Serge:



> “Putin has … achieved his project of formal annexation of Ukraine’s old eastern rim. This has also legally transformed the war into an existential struggle. Further Ukrainian advances in the east are now, in the eyes of the Russian state, an assault on sovereign Russian territory and an attempt to destroy the integrity of the Russian state. Recent polling shows that a supermajority of Russians support defending these new territories at any cost.” (Substack)


The speed at which Putin annexed the four regions in Ukraine suggests that the real purpose of the action goes far beyond the expansion of Russia’s western border. The real reason Putin rushed through the measure was to fundamentally change the rules of engagement. Needless to say, a Special Military Operation is worlds apart from the defense of one’s own sovereign territory. In other words, the real purpose of the referendum was to indicate that “the gloves are off” and that Russia is going to respond to Ukraine’s attacks with unexpected ferocity. Here’s Serge again:



> A political consensus for higher mobilization and greater intensity has been achieved. Now all that remains is the implementation of this consensus in the material world of fist and boot, bullet and shell, blood and iron.”
> ….. Russia is massing for a winter escalation and offensive, and is currently engaged in a calculated trade wherein they give up space in exchange for time and Ukrainian casualties.Russia continues to retreat where positions are either operationally compromised or faced with overwhelming Ukrainian numbers, but they are very careful to extract forces out of operational danger….
> Russia will likely continue to pull back over the coming weeks, withdrawing units intact under their artillery and air umbrella, grinding down Ukrainian heavy equipment stocks and wearing away their manpower. Meanwhile, new equipment continues to congregate in Belgorod, Zaporizhia, and Crimea. My expectation remains the same: episodic Russian withdrawal until the front stabilizes roughly at the end of October, followed by an operational pause until the ground freezes, followed by escalation and a winter offensive by Russia once they have finished amassing sufficient units.
> There is an eerie calm radiating from the Kremlin….. The disconnect between the Kremlin’s stoicism and the deterioration of the front are striking. Perhaps Putin and the entire Russian general staff really are criminally incompetent – perhaps the Russian reserves really are nothing but a bunch of drunks. Perhaps there is no plan.
> Or perhaps, Russia’s sons will answer the call of the motherland again, as they did in 1709, in 1812, and in 1941.
> As the wolves once more prowl at the door, the old bear rises again to fight.” (Big Serge, Substack)


Bottom line: Russia has now laid the groundwork for a broader and more violent conflict. 300,000 reservists have been called up, vast amounts of military hardware are being shipped to the front, and public opinion overwhelmingly supports the war-effort. All the signs point to a significant escalation in the fighting that will leave much of Ukraine in ruins while pushing Washington and Moscow closer to a direct confrontation.

Mearsheimer’s Chilling Prediction: “The Russians are going to turn Ukraine into rubble.” (2 minute video)



> John Mearsheimer called it right in 2015 and he called it right again 7 months ago. Maybe the US Govt should hire him as a fire alarm. pic.twitter.com/8CvbMPyUO6
> — Kim Dotcom (@KimDotcom) October 12, 2022


*Michael Whitney *is a renowned geopolitical and social analyst based in Washington State. He initiated his career as an independent citizen-journalist in 2002 with a commitment to honest journalism, social justice and World peace. He is a Research Associate of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG).

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## Deino

Well… 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584912189856571400

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## sammuel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585044215247273991





You are aware that in most sane countries leaders change ? 


Unlike other places , where the leader does not change, and the opposition leader is thrown into jail for 9 years for no reason . . .










Navalny facing fresh charges and up to 30 years in prison – DW – 10/21/2022


Russian authorities have accused Alexei Navalny of propagating extremism and calling for terrorism, the jailed Putin critic said. Fellow dissident Marina Ovsyannikova has also received new penalties.




www.dw.com











~

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## Viet

Wow

The gas market runs amok.

Too much gas on the market

For hours the price sinks to negative territory. Sellers want to sell at every cost.

Buyers get money when they buy natural gas. The more they buy the more money they make.

Putin energy war against EU is not going well.









Energiekrise: Zu viel Gas? Weshalb der Gaspreis jetzt ins Minus rutscht - WELT


Während die Politik in Berlin und Brüssel um die Gaspreis-Bremse verhandelt, brechen die Notierungen für den Brennstoff drastisch ein. Stundenweise müssen die Händler sogar Geld bezahlen, um ihr Gas loszuwerden. Doch Experten warnen vor falschen Schlüssen.




www.welt.de

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585164329145376770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585156638532861954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585147108486545408


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## A.P. Richelieu

gambit said:


> Each wafer have dies of three main grades: Prime, then grades 2 and 3. Overall, the prices for each grade decreases with maturity and maturity equals to higher yield and *CONSISTENT* yield. Even so, the prime dies will command higher prices than product grades 2 and 3.
> 
> At tech nodes below 20 nm, customers are less likely to be interested in buying PGL 2 and 3 dies, whether it is in wafer sales or packaged forms. I said 'less likely', not never. The reason is because at lower than 20 nm, the physical structures of the cell, whether it is processor memory, is small enough that manufacturing defects will create even greater unpredictable *FUTURE* failure modes. Imagine the cell structures like that of the walls and roof of houses, now imagine them thinner and thinner with each construction of each new house. There will be a point where you can no longer predict how the house will collapse in a storm or even a spring rain. There is a testing process call 'wafer level reliability' (WLR) testing.
> 
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> Wafer Level Reliability Testing White Paper
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> www.lricks.com
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> 
> Basically, what WLR does is extreme stress on the cell with higher voltage, current, and temperature, then there are fancy algos to calculate the product's estimate lifespans. Since memory is in the news these days, I will use NAND for an example...
> 
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> Loading…
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> www.ictest8.com
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> 
> One of the top five testing conditions is called the 'checkerboard' pattern.
> 
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> 
> The wafer's dies are injected with ones and zeros in a checkerboard pattern. At tech nodes below 20 nm, the walls between the dies can be thin enough due to various manufacturing defects that data (1) can leak into adjacent (0) dies. Now create the pattern with higher voltage, current, and temperature. By higher temperature, I mean hot enough to bake a pizza or lasagna. Going back to the house analogy, imagine living with your parents and hear them having sex or arguing in the next room. That is data leakage. At tech nodes below 20 nm for some products, prime dies commands the highest contract and spot market prices, PGL 2 dies sells at cost or loss, and PLG 3 dies are scrapped. For other memory products, PGL 3 dies can sell to Joe Schmoe Memory Emporium run out of someone's garage in the middle of Montana or Kansas.
> 
> So why would anyone sell such low grade/quality semicon products? To answer your question with a question -- Why not? China have nothing to lose but much Russian cash to gain. Chinese gray markets are notorious at being skilled enough to get their hands on wafers that should have been scrapped. They get them via shell companies that buy these lower grades wafers/dies ostensibly to be used in toys or non-critical electronics. Then they repackage the dies into something 'respectable' looking and sell at a profit.
> 
> China is screwing Russia over, if this article is true.
> 
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> Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia
> 
> 
> What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame
> 
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> www.theregister.com
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> 
> The effects of this ffukking over will not be felt for some time because the semicon crap that Russia is buying now still need to go thru their manufacturing pipelines. Put aside the nuclear option for now and assume Russia is defeated. The economic and technological sanctions from the West will not be lifted and that leave China as the only seller for anything semicon. Russian electronics makers will have no choice but to drop trou, bend over, spread cheeks, and take it without lube. Their companies' reputations for shoddy products, from toasters to cars, will suffer, going back to the Soviet era.



If You have two DDR5 designs with the same spec, and one design (A) gets 10 prime dies on average per wafer, and the other (B) gets 100 prime dies on average per wafer.
There are 3 additional manufacturers with the same two designs, and all four is trying to get into the Apple M4 multichip module. Apple only buys prime die and wants damages if quality is bad.

You claim that design A will sell at a lower price to Apple.
I claim that market pressure will force design B to a lower price.

Apple will expect (wafer cost / prime dies) * marginfactor.

Design A will be 10x the cost of design B, so it will be more expensive.
If the yield can be improved by selling dies not meeting full spec, they can be sold at a lower cost, but that was not the question.


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Hmm, it shows two things.
> 
> 1.) I was right about the Russian soldier ditches their uniform and flee in civilian clothes.
> 2.) Assuming these Russian soldiers are not trying to flee to the Ukrainian side, that mean this video would be shot quite close to the rear of Russian line in Kherson. Which means Ukraine is taking quite a lot of ground in operation around Kherson.



I have seem photos of Russian 8 inch guns being destroyed, and their 300mm MLRSes. Normally they would be 30km-40km behind the lines.

That means AUF managed to chop that much of the territory controlled somewhere near


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## sammuel

~​​Ukraine war: Russian forces preparing to defend Kherson, says Ukrainian spy chief​

*Russia is sending more troops into the key southern city of Kherson and may be preparing to defend it, Ukraine's spy chief has said.*

Ukraine had previously suggested some Russian units might be leaving.
Russia took Kherson in the early days of the war, but has recently come under pressure as Ukrainian troops advance along the Dnipro River.

Russian authorities in the city have ordered thousands of civilians to evacuate.

Kyrylo Budanov, the Ukrainian intelligence chief, dismissed this as an "information operation", telling the Ukrayinska Pravda website Moscow was "trying to create the illusion that everything is lost".

The Russian military is sending in more troops and preparing the streets for defence, he said, adding that the removal of citizens is a pretence to save face in case the city falls to Ukraine.

This is a departure from Kyiv's earlier comments that the invading forces were leaving the city. "They are not preparing to exit now," he said.

The BBC has not verified the precise movements of either sides' troops on the ground. The suggestion that Russian troops are digging in raises the possibility of a fierce fight in the coming weeks.










Ukraine war: Russian forces preparing to defend Kherson, says Ukrainian spy chief


Ukraine had suggested some Russian units were leaving Kherson, a city that fell early in the war.



www.bbc.com






~

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585186606683951106

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## Paul2

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> For duck sake Russia can never lose a war against 32 million people against 160 millions , all Russia can do is destroy their energy infrastructure and Ukrainians will die of cold , Putin is not resorting to it , the outer power which wants to weaken Russia is just prolonging this war just to weaken Russia , Putin ain't that stupid . If Putin is to nuke Ukraine what can the world do? West is using Ukraine as a test ground against Russia nothing else they don't care an inch about Ukrainians lives



FYI, Soviet Union once lost to... Finland with 60 to 1 force ratio

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## sammuel

~​​Russian anti-war group Stop The Wagons attacks Russian railway heading to Belarus​







A Russian anti-war group has claimed responsibility for an attack on a critical railway near the Russia-Belarus border.

On Monday, an explosive device damaged the railway near the village of Novozybkovo, approximately 15km from the Russia-Belarus border, the governor of Russia’s Belgorod region has announced.

The line is the main rail link between Russia and southern Belarus.


The Russian anti-war group Stop the Wagons (STW) has claimed responsibility for the damage, an update from the British Ministry of Defence said on Wednesday.

This is at least the sixth incident of sabotage against Russian railway infrastructure claimed by STW since June, British Intelligence said.

“This is part of a wider trend of dissident attacks against railways in both Russia and Belarus. The Russian authorities have previously clamped down on STW’s online presence.”

STW said on Telegram: “The results of this small explosive sabotage will have to be eliminated with a complete re-laying of the rails. And that’s great.”







The group disrupts Russian railways to prevent the transport of equipment, fuel, ammunition and other supplies to the war in Ukraine.

It has claimed responsibility for other damaged railways, including an incident in the Amur Oblast on the Trans-Siberian Railway in June.

The Russia military relies heavily on rail transport for transporting forces to Ukraine, but with a network extending to over 33,000km, largely transiting isolated areas, the system is extremely challenging to secure against physical threats.










Russian anti-war group Stop The Wagons attacks Russian railway heading to Belarus


This is at least the sixth incident of sabotage claimed by the group since June




uk.news.yahoo.com

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I have seem photos of Russian 8 inch guns being destroyed, and their 300mm MLRSes. Normally they would be 30km-40km behind the lines.
> 
> That means AUF managed to chop that much of the territory controlled somewhere near


Some of my source told me they are close to Nova Kakhovka near Beryslav, if that is true then the Ukrainian made around 50km from Dudchany


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## Viet

King of artillery

Pzh 2000






Germany sends two MARS II multiple-launch rocket systems and four Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine.





__





Steinmeier: Germany to send two more MARS II systems, four PzH 2000 howitzers to Ukraine






www.ukrinform.net


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585207857653649408

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Bombing a factory which produces washing machines is likely to violate the principle of proportionality, and thus a war crime.


Since when violating proportionality a war-crime , its called escalation, and even for that it all come to the point what was produced at the factory at the time


A.P. Richelieu said:


> That says that the military value of a target must be high enough to motivate the damage to civilians.


if there is military value , its justified 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Since Western military equipment does not use commercial grade electronics, microcontrollers in washing machines does not have a military value.


if the equipment in that factory is used to maintain those military equipment ?
and also ukraine have more eastern equipment than western ones


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia, not being competent in designing electronics, have to use commercial components, so they have a military value in Russian hands.


and ukraine is even more incompetent than russia ,otherwise they already had their copy of gran-1 and gran-2


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## jhungary

While we focus on the South, the East had made another progress for the Ukrianian.

Ukraine retaken Kyslivka sometime between 14 Oct to 25 Oct. Report states that Russia is bombing Kyslivka









Armed Forces of Ukraine push back Russian forces in east


The Ukrainian troops have pushed back Russian forces in the settlements of Karmazynivka, Myasozharivka, and Nevske in Luhansk region and Novosadove in Donetsk region. — Ukrinform.




www.ukrinform.net





Which mean Ukraine now control both side of P07 highway.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


>


what i see is that two projectile get intercepted by Ukrainian infrastructures not Ukraine air-defense one at 00:21 and another at 
what you see from 00:32 is not interception but some sort of flak cannon detonating and try to make a wall of shrapnel in front of the incoming projectiles and again at 00:46 another infrastructure successfully intercept an incoming projectile
Its clear that Air-Defense failed again wonder in which second actually Iranian drones get destroyed (well obviously beside the destruction of those two projectile in 00:21 and 00:46)


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> what i see is that two projectile get intercepted by Ukrainian infrastructures not Ukraine air-defense one at 00:21 and another at
> what you see from 00:32 is not interception but some sort of flak cannon detonating and try to make a wall of shrapnel in front of the incoming projectiles and again at 00:46 another infrastructure successfully intercept an incoming projectile
> Its clear that Air-Defense failed again wonder in which second actually Iranian drones get destroyed (well obviously beside the destruction of those two projectile in 00:21 and 00:46)


It's quite obvious they are the same interception just differnet angle. 

And You can see the object exploded in the air if you stop the video at 0:20, also at 0:49. you can see the blast radius is above the skyline and behind the building, suggested the object exploded in the air. 

Unless that is an Russian airburst, whatever is shooting at was intercepted.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585206315772960768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585218820599590914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585216638390968320

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> It's quite obvious they are the same interception just differnet angle.
> 
> And You can see the object exploded in the air if you stop the video at 0:20, also at 0:49. you can see the blast radius is above the skyline and behind the building, suggested the object exploded in the air.
> 
> Unless that is an Russian airburst, whatever is shooting at was intercepted.


in 21 the explosion is clearly on the ground , you can see it by the fact that the brightest point in video is on the ground not in sky and then you see something on the ground on fire

its also the case about 00:46 so I say no the interception occurred by infrastructure not Air-Defense


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> in 21 the explosion is clearly on the ground , you can see it by the fact that the brightest point in video is on the ground not in sky and then you see something on the ground on fire
> 
> its also the case about 00:46 so I say no the interception occurred by infrastructure not Air-Defense


I don't know what you are looking at







This is not a ground det......You can see the reference point at the time of explosion, the center is above ground.

And the one at 47 second is the same explosion just on a different angle....

You count the explosion the moment it exploded. Which is between 0:19 to 0:20. Whatever it is would have been drop to the ground in a fireball, that's why you saw it on the ground at 0:21...in fact, you can see the fireball gone down.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585253803145965568

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585258653833367552

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585261755902697472
Russian army no longer looks like an army,but a ragtag militia

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585189105201483777

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> I don't know what you are looking at
> 
> View attachment 889469
> 
> 
> This is not a ground det......You can see the reference point at the time of explosion, the center is above ground.
> 
> And the one at 47 second is the same explosion just on a different angle....
> 
> You count the explosion the moment it exploded. Which is between 0:19 to 0:20. Whatever it is would have been drop to the ground in a fireball, that's why you saw it on the ground at 0:21...in fact, you can see the fireball gone down.


If you compare it to the rest of the video you see the red line is buildings tops and the blue line is water line
the explosion is in line with buildings tops , your mistake is that because its above water line you think its above the ground .




by the way your theory don't explain the explosion and the fire after it .
secondary fire
before




after





this two photo clearly shows the explosion is on building tops .
in your photo the camera become blind , so it cant be used as a good photo for studying what exactly happened

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585253803145965568


Thanks for posting this exact example of war Crime 
@A.P. Richelieu please add this to your list of War crimes


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585253803145965568International Criminal Court 2002​Firing upon a Combat Medic with clear insignia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585276460981444614

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585250782756352003

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585280082855317505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585278786219786240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585268173670080513

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## RoadAmerica

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I wonder why is Russia going easy on Ukraine , it can easily withdraw from kherson and other places and bomb it to stone age but Russia is not resorting to it , they may have other plans either way the only loser will be Ukraine while the Jewish pm and president of Ukraine will settle in Israel or somewhere in US who were brought into power by usa


They’re not going easy, they simply don’t have the ability


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585283142365204481




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585254001779826688


----------



## RoadAmerica

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Just like Americans don't have the ability to beat Communist North Vietnam or Taliban Afghanistan.


Back to Afghanistan I see, ah yes no relation to this thread


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585275991844421632

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> what i see is that two projectile get intercepted by Ukrainian infrastructures not Ukraine air-defense one at 00:21 and another at
> what you see from 00:32 is not interception but some sort of flak cannon detonating and try to make a wall of shrapnel in front of the incoming projectiles and again at 00:46 another infrastructure successfully intercept an incoming projectile
> Its clear that Air-Defense failed again wonder in which second actually Iranian drones get destroyed (well obviously beside the destruction of those two projectile in 00:21 and 00:46)


Whatever
No difference to Hamas rockets on Israel
Even some rockets and missiles slip thru Israeli or Ukraine air defense
Military worthless such terror attacks.


----------



## MeFishToo

OverandOut said:


> Source: The Unz Review
> 
> Written by *Mike Whitney*. Originally published by *The Unz Review*
> 
> Ukrainian gains on the battlefield have been met by a widely-anticipated Russian escalation. On September 21, in a rare national address, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the mobilsation of 300,000 reservists who would be called to serve in the war in Ukraine.
> 
> In recent weeks, the Russian army has suffered a number of setbacks due to its lack of sufficient manpower in the battlespace. Simply put, the Russians did not have enough combat troops to carry out their mission or to defend the vast area that has recently been annexed by Moscow. Russia’s Special Military Operation was never designed to seize and occupy great swaths of Ukrainian territory. In essence, the SMO was a police operation aimed at locating and eliminating the Ukrainian forces that had been bombarding and killing ethnic Russians living in east Ukraine.
> 
> After numerous clashes with advancing NATO-trained battalions, it’s clear that Russia needs significant reinforcements to roll back Ukrainian forces and impose a security buffer around its new provinces. Russia’s critics see the under-staffing as an indication of military incompetence but, in fact, Moscow is merely adapting to a fluid situation in which both parties continue to raise the stakes. Here is an excerpt from a post by Big Serge at Substack that helps to clarify what’s going on:
> 
> 
> Russia’s critics, of course, will dismiss this explanation as nonsense, even so, the calling up of 300,000 reservists shows that Putin’s generals realize they cannot achieve their strategic objectives with merely an “expeditionary force” but must adjust to changes on the ground. And that is precisely what they are doing; they are beefing up their forces at a time when Putin’s public approval rating is at an eye-watering 77%. So, while an earlier mobilization would have undoubtedly been met with widespread condemnation and rejection, the great majority of Russians now fully support the policy. Simply put, Putin has won the hearts and minds of the Russian people. He has convinced them that their country, traditions, culture and lives face an unprecedented existential threat. Here’s more from Big Serge:
> 
> 
> In short, the establishment media and political class have made Putin’s job easier for him by persuading even left-leaning Russians that the western nations –led by the US– despise all-things Russian and are determined to destroy their country and subjugate their people. Here’s Putin:
> 
> 
> According to Putin, the collective west wants to plunder Russia, enslave its people, and create a colony whose wealth can be siphoned off by tyrannical bigots and foreign profiteers. The media’s relentless attack on Russian athletes, scholars, scientists, musicians and even businessmen has only reinforced the view among ordinary Russians that they have entered the crosshairs of a violent and out-of-control western coalition that intends to deliver the same lethal death-blow to Russia that they did to Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and countless other nations. Putin’s soaring public approval ratings underscore the fact that most Russians think the threat is real and that the battle must be joined. Here’s more from Big Serge:
> 
> 
> The speed at which Putin annexed the four regions in Ukraine suggests that the real purpose of the action goes far beyond the expansion of Russia’s western border. The real reason Putin rushed through the measure was to fundamentally change the rules of engagement. Needless to say, a Special Military Operation is worlds apart from the defense of one’s own sovereign territory. In other words, the real purpose of the referendum was to indicate that “the gloves are off” and that Russia is going to respond to Ukraine’s attacks with unexpected ferocity. Here’s Serge again:
> 
> 
> Bottom line: Russia has now laid the groundwork for a broader and more violent conflict. 300,000 reservists have been called up, vast amounts of military hardware are being shipped to the front, and public opinion overwhelmingly supports the war-effort. All the signs point to a significant escalation in the fighting that will leave much of Ukraine in ruins while pushing Washington and Moscow closer to a direct confrontation.
> 
> Mearsheimer’s Chilling Prediction: “The Russians are going to turn Ukraine into rubble.” (2 minute video)
> 
> 
> *Michael Whitney *is a renowned geopolitical and social analyst based in Washington State. He initiated his career as an independent citizen-journalist in 2002 with a commitment to honest journalism, social justice and World peace. He is a Research Associate of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG).


UNZ Review is a platform for Looney Tunes. The internet is providing bandwidth for 99% trash.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585299185129377792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585201700696395777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585251791792660481

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Whatever
> No difference to Hamas rockets on Israel
> Even some rockets and missiles slip thru Israeli or Ukraine air defense
> Military worthless such terror attacks.


depends on what is the target ?
to be honest , if EU- want to reduce such attacks on Ukraine , they must send all AA cannons they have decommissioned from Cold war to Ukraine m they have more chance intercepting drones at reasonable price than Air defense missiles and the useless tactics such as

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## gambit

A.P. Richelieu said:


> If You have two DDR5 designs with the same spec, and one design (A) gets 10 prime dies on average per wafer, and the other (B) gets 100 prime dies on average per wafer.
> There are 3 additional manufacturers with the same two designs, and all four is trying to get into the Apple M4 multichip module. Apple only buys prime die and wants damages if quality is bad.
> 
> You claim that design A will sell at a lower price to Apple.
> *I claim that market pressure will force design B to a lower price.*
> 
> Apple will expect (wafer cost / prime dies) * marginfactor.
> 
> Design A will be 10x the cost of design B, so it will be more expensive.
> If the yield can be improved by selling dies not meeting full spec, they can be sold at a lower cost, but that was not the question.


Ref the highlighted -- only if Apple is the sole buyer. Micron have a history of keeping old borderline ancient products on the books readied and would be applicable to your argument. NASA is often the caller because some of the older memory products have greater cell structural strength and more easily customized for the rigors of space, the yield per wafer may not be high because of various factors but whatever yielded can be sold, and NASA will pay a premium for the dies.


----------



## SIPRA

Hack-Hook said:


> depends on what is the target ?
> to be honest , if EU- want to reduce such attacks on Ukraine , they must send all AA cannons they have decommissioned from Cold war to Ukraine ...



It appears that after a while Ukraine would be left to use air guns, with slugs, to intercept Russian missiles and drones. 😃😃😃


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585310143297638400

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585289050587631616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585276460981444614

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585271984220475394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585266165424820226


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585303214827524098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585302356459065344

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1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585312049709522945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585305971467096064


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## Paul2

gambit said:


> Ref the highlighted -- only if Apple is the sole buyer. Micron have a history of keeping old borderline ancient products on the books readied and would be applicable to your argument. NASA is often the caller because some of the older memory products have greater cell structural strength and more easily customized for the rigors of space, the yield per wafer may not be high because of various factors but whatever yielded can be sold, and NASA will pay a premium for the dies.



I though that DRAM is never used in space in favour of SRAM


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585279405022224385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585283128834330628

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585306981471952896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585299185129377792

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> Since when violating proportionality a war-crime , its called escalation, and even for that it all come to the point what was produced at the factory at the time
> 
> if there is military value , its justified
> 
> if the equipment in that factory is used to maintain those military equipment ?
> and also ukraine have more eastern equipment than western ones
> 
> and ukraine is even more incompetent than russia ,otherwise they already had their copy of gran-1 and gran-2


No, it is not called escalation.

Proportionality is about common sense.
If You detect that there is a single private in uniform attending a football game together with 50,000 civilians, it is a war crime to carpet bomb the arena killing all of them claiming that the presence of that private makes all of the arena a valid military target.

If you detect a single sniper blocking a bridge from a house which might contain civilians, and that bridge is critical to the success of the campaign, then taking out the house is considered proportional even if a few civilians are killed.

Maybe You should ask your countrymen which whines about Israel not being proportional in its response to Palestinian War Crimes. Or maybe you shouldn’t because while they are aware that the rule if proportionality exists they have no clue how it works.

This is now considered customary law and based on various parts of the 1907 Hague convention and the 1949 Geneva Conventions.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> No, it is not called escalation.
> 
> Proportionality is about common sense.
> If You detect that there is a single private in uniform attending a football game together with 50,000 civilians, it is a war crime to carpet bomb the arena killing all ofbthem claiming that the presence of that private makes all of the arena a valid military target.
> 
> If you detect a single sniper blocking a bridge from a house which might contain civilians, and that bridge is critical to the success of the campaign, then taking out the house is considered proportional even if a few civilians are killed.
> 
> Maybe You should ask your countrymen which whines about Israel not being proportional in its response to Palestinian War Crimes. Or maybe you shouldn’t because while they are aware that the rule if proportionality exists they have no clue how it works.
> 
> This is now considered customary law and based on various parts of the 1907 Hague convention and the 1949 Geneva Conventions.



Tell that to the Ukrainians who bomb Kherson bridge, Crimean bridge which are mainly used by civilians.

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585292349889978368


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

gambit said:


> Ref the highlighted -- only if Apple is the sole buyer. Micron have a history of keeping old borderline ancient products on the books readied and would be applicable to your argument. NASA is often the caller because some of the older memory products have greater cell structural strength and more easily customized for the rigors of space, the yield per wafer may not be high because of various factors but whatever yielded can be sold, and NASA will pay a premium for the dies.


They are not paying high prices because the yield is low.
They are paying high prices because it is a single source product.

The yield is not defined as how many working die you get per wafer.
It is defined as how many working die you get as a percentage of the actual number of dies.

You also avoided my example. please explain why the low yielding design would be cheaper than the high yielding design, and please avoid introducing new irrelevant parameters.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585320897128255488


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585234899451404289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585234911560364032


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585333507211116546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585308796611502080


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585337839809486848

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

Important updates on all fronts..


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585352101655449601


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> *your mistake is that because its above water line you think its above the ground *.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by the way your theory don't explain the explosion and the fire after it .
> secondary fire
> before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> after
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this two photo clearly shows the explosion is on building tops .
> in your photo the camera become blind , so it cant be used as a good photo for studying what exactly happened


Above water is ALWAYS above ground. Water collect at the lowest point of the ground, if it is above waterline, that mean it is above the lowest point of the ground...............I can't further explain to you as this is simple physics.

Also, you will have a secondary fire if the fireball that crashed into the ground ignite something, that is a fire dude, if a fire ball crashed on, say a car, it can ignite the gasoline inside that car and explode it. Let alone if the drone was intact when intercepted, that can still carry 50 kg of explosive. You may just be seeing the drone exploded after it has been intercepted.


----------



## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585329495720198146

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## jhungary

The quality of Russian fake propaganda has gone down since the war..

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## jhungary

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585329495720198146


Not only that....They used their own Nuclear Scientific research lab in St Petersburg as the supposed lab in Kyiv that is developing the "Dirty Bomb" well, maybe they are making one in the St. Petersburg lab? I don't know

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585363157950029824


----------



## BHAN85

jhungary said:


> The quality of Russian fake propaganda has gone down since the war..


That remembers me when Russian talk about Ukraine Bio/Chem weapons labs.

They have no shame, If Ukraine have such weapons when they are supossed to use it, if they already have been invaded by Russia since months ago.

By the other side, Russia keeps the fast transformation in a North Korea King Size, doing nuclear blackmail to whole world, in a desesperate attempt to terrorize people and avoid the economic sanctions that are crushing Russian elite way of life, based in western luxuries.



> 26 OCT, 14:51
> Russia holds exercise to practice massive retaliatory nuclear strike — Shoigu​It is noted that in accordance with the Russian Armed Forces’ training schedule an exercise is being held to practice command and control of the Armed Forces







__





Loading…






tass.com

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585380737154703360

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585384136394821632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585384982511751168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585352350705012736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585380490172944384

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> "While fighter jets have been effective against Iranian drones, said Yurii Ignat, a Ukrainian Air Force spokesman, *the approach is costly because of its use of air-to-air missiles.* *'It’s frustrating that we must hit these drones with expensive missiles*,' he said. 'What else can we do? This is the reality now.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘We Heard It, We Saw It, Then We Opened Fire’
> 
> 
> With an intense, hastily assembled effort, the Ukrainian military is pioneering successful techniques in the difficult art of anti-drone warfare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using missiles and fighter jets that together costs ten of millions of USD a piece in order to take down a drone that cost $20,000 USD is the worst trade-off economically speaking. It is also something that will not be sustainable in the long-run.


Not practical or economically feasible. But there is a history of mismatched resources: a squad of US troops in Afghanistan always under the protection of a UAV, and with a FAC and pretty much round the clock patrols of fighter protection. If they came into contact with 20 taliban with nothing but AK-47s, the squad would then be supported by fighter jets, gunships, drone, plus tanker support. 

Not economical but if one country is industrially and economically mighter , it could sustain in the short-run. 

I remember reading about an F-22 mission over Syria to take out a few technicals and a building run by 2 F-22s. It was more of a show of using F-22 in ground attack. But figure in 2-3 hours of flight time, tanker, and smart munitions easily reached $300K to destroy two pick-up trucks.



Viet said:


> Ukraine air defense knows the trick. It shoots down 85 percent of Iran drones.
> 
> Russians using Iran drones are a means of terror is over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unter anderem wegen ihrer geringen Flughöhe seien die Drohnen einfach abzuschießen, teilte das britische Verteidigungsministerium mit.
> (Foto: picture alliance/dpa/AP)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 85 Prozent abgefangen: London: Ukraine wehrt Großteil iranischer Drohnen ab - n-tv.de
> 
> 
> Als Ersatz für russische Langstreckenwaffen soll Russland vermehrt auf iranische Kamikazedrohnen zurückgreifen. Diese werden von der Ukraine jedoch immer effektiver abgefangen, teilt der britische Geheimdienst mit. Die Drohnen seien nämlich recht einfach abzuschießen.
> 
> 
> 
> amp.n-tv.de


@Viet a request: if you are going to put a significant news report of significance in this matter (vs. blindly putting twitter links) can you pls translate? You must speak German but rest of us don't.


----------



## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> red crescent is not international treaty .
> 
> as i said who care do your worst , we only here to prolong the war in European continent , waste your ressource on the war and buy the gas 3 time its price from your ally uncle sam.
> 
> 
> well they tried it , solution was not that spectacular


Where are you getting 3x the price: gas spot prices are 126% from a year ago. So yes they are higher but not 3x. And its not uncle sam, Qatar also supplying a big portion of Gas. So pls check your facts before you make claims. It means the rest of the stuff you post may be as exagerrated and not believable.



zartosht said:


> LOL!!
> 
> Bagheri had a seriously underrated trolling game i never knew about. I like him even more now 😂
> 
> The western hegemony has finally ran into a wall. And they are frustrated that they cant control free countries like Iran Russia and China
> 
> 
> *“Men who only kneel before GOD”*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 888990


Indeed all these free countries that have internal police forces and sensors as big s their militaries. Thats 'freedom'.... where no counter view or political opinion is allowed. Putin has 95% rating yet a million people leave. Iran is free to cover its women and beat its teenagers. And in 2006 China had a sensor army of 50,000 when internet was barely underway to keep track of its people. Very free for sure.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585423914481905664

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> that's not my logic that's NATO and USA logic , and double use technology and industry is the term you guys used to prevent letting Iran buy medical equipment like CT-scan , Ultrasonographic and Gama-scan devices also equipment to produce vaccines and drugs. we learnt it from you guys


Sarcasm hard to establish. For a second you seemed like you believed a water pumping station was dual use.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585382694053347328


----------



## aviator_fan

BHAN85 said:


> Birds caught in engine caused Su-34 aircraft crash in Yeysk — security agencies​
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/emergencies/1526421
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian SU-30 fighter jet crashes into building in Siberia, killing two
> 
> 
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/23/russian-jet-crashes-into-building-in-siberia-killing-two 23 Oct 2022 Two pilots have been killed when a Russian fighter jet crashed into a two-story residential building in the city of Irkutsk in southern Siberia. Video of Sunday’s crash showed the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even seagulls are pro-Ukraine
> 
> 
> What has given Ukraine to Israel to demand anything?
> 
> Ukraine is getting used to ask things for free.
> 
> And the whole world is not so dumb like EU rulers.


Just because Europe didn't let your guy walk over a country and put Russia on a path to industrial backwardness in the next decade, they are the dumb guys? In 2 years, with all the equipment for drilling from Schlumberger and other companies will be useless and PUtin will be sitting on black stuff not able to extract it.



Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I wonder why is Russia going easy on Ukraine , it can easily withdraw from kherson and other places and bomb it to stone age but Russia is not resorting to it , they may have other plans either way the only loser will be Ukraine while the Jewish pm and president of Ukraine will settle in Israel or somewhere in US who were brought into power by usa


Another idiotic comment . More Jews live outside Israel then inside Israel. He is no more likely to go to Israel any more than a PM of Labenese origin is likely go to Lebanon or a Black European PM is going to go back to Africa or UK PM if kicked out will go to India. 

Did Saddam or Qaddafi vie to go to Mecca because they were muslim. Get a grip and use intelligence argument.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584521388236627970

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## aviator_fan

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632915992150016
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632927690055680
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632967850139648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632975144022017
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632980349194240
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/UnrollHelper/status/1585083594757791746
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584991242714517504


There shoudl be an award for Bashar and Bearded Khomeni to be responsible for more muslim blood on their hands than Israel could ever come close to (actually while at it, put MBS as well). All three excel at war monging and killing Arabs direclty or by propping them to fight Israel. Iran has the glorious title of having fought with Iraq. So yes only an Iranian idiot would see Assad as a hero. The rest of the muslim world sees him as an Israeli agent who after 30 years still can't re-capture Golan heights but levelled Aleppo

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585410974739488768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585425977437741056


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## aviator_fan

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585186606683951106


Destroyed as effectively as the disruption of NATO supply lines that Putin promised. But another lie he could not deliver on



RoadAmerica said:


> Back to Afghanistan I see, ah yes no relation to this thread


Wow you still respond to this thoughtless chatbot? I blocked him...next thing it will be trees, then population. Same rant over and over (not to mention reposting of same videos over and over)

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585376104243556352


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## aviator_fan

Warmer weather has certainly not helped Putin's plans: consumption in Oct similar to Aug/Sep levels so this year will be a save for Europe. Generally most suppliers (including Qatar) are warning that constraints will persist till 2024 so there is another winter to go after this



https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/26/energy/europe-natural-gas-prices-plunge/index.html


Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero​ London CNN Business — 

Europe has more natural gas than it knows what to do with. So much, in fact, that spot prices briefly went negative earlier this week.

For months, officials have warned of an energy crisis this winter as Russia — once the region’s biggest supplier of natural gas — slashed supplies in retaliation for sanctions Europe imposed over its invasion of Ukraine.

Now, EU gas storage facilities are close to full, tankers carrying liquefied natural gas (LNG) are lining up at ports, unable to unload their cargoes, and prices are tumbling.

The price of benchmark European natural gas futures has dropped 20% since last Thursday, and by more than 70% since hitting a record high in late August. On Monday, Dutch gas spot prices for delivery within an hour — which reflect real time European market conditions — dipped below €0, according to data from the Intercontinental Exchange.

Prices turned negative because of an “oversupplied grid,” Tomas Marzec-Manser, head of gas analytics at the Independent Commodity Intelligence Services (ICIS), told CNN Business.

It is a hugely surprising turn of events for Europe, where households and businesses have been clobbered by eye-watering rises in the price of one of its most important energy sources over the past year.

Warm weather to the rescue​ 
Massimo Di Odoardo, vice president of gas and LNG research at Wood Mackenzie, says unseasonably mild weather is largely responsible for the dramatic change in fortune.

“In countries like Italy, Spain, France, we’re seeing temperatures and [gas] consumption closer to August and early September [levels],” he told CNN Business. “Even in countries in the Nordics, the UK and Germany, consumption is way below the average for this time of the year,” he added.

The European Union has also built substantial buffers against any further supply cuts by filling gas storage facilities close to capacity. Stores are now almost 94% full, according to data from Gas Infrastructure Europe. That’s well above the 80% target the bloc set countries to reach by November.

“That’s an extremely high level,” Di Odoardo said, noting that the maximum storage level averaged 87% of capacity over the past five years.

Europe’s efforts to secure as much fuel ahead of winter as possible has caused a backlog of LNG tankers at European ports, made worse by a shortage of LNG import terminals.

The bloc has ramped up imports of LNG from the United States and Qatar as natural gas imports from Russia plummeted.

Felix Booth, head of LNG at data firm Vortexa, told CNN Business that as many as 35 vessels are either floating near, or sailing very slowly towards, ports in northwestern Europe and the Iberian peninsula because of a lack of storage options.

Those ships will “likely take another month to find home for the cargoes,” he said.

Together, they’re carrying about $2 billion worth of LNG, according to Kpler, citing energy market data provider Argus Media.

Higher prices next year​ 
Despite the recent slump, at around €100 ($100) per megawatt hour European natural gas futures are still 126% above where they were last October, when economies started to reopen from their pandemic lockdowns and demand spiked.

Prices could rise sharply again in December and January as the weather turns colder, providing an incentive for some of those tankers to wait offshore a while longer before coming into port to unload, said Booth.

And despite the fact that Russia’s share of Europe’s total gas imports has fallen from 40% to just 9%, the region could be in a difficult spot next summer as it tries to replenish its stores ahead of the following winter.

Prices are expected to hit €150 ($150) per megawatt hour by the end of 2023, said Bill Weatherburn, a commodities economist at Capital Economics.

“Filling storage ahead of next winter will require the EU to import even more LNG because there is a need to replace lost Russian gas imports for an entire year,” he told CNN Business.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585363610955808768


aviator_fan said:


> Warmer weather has certainly not helped Putin's plans: consumption in Oct similar to Aug/Sep levels so this year will be a save for Europe.



Global warming is most beneficial to Russia. Western Europe is already pretty warm thanks to Gulf stream. Berlin for example is only -2 C low in January. Global warming means large parts of Russia will become farmable. Consequently, Russia population will double from current 150 million to 300 million over the next few decades.

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584521388236627970


Indeed, a new world order is taking shape, Russia is to become Chinese bitches.......

It has never been done before since the age of Kingdoms and Empires......

LOL

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## BHAN85

aviator_fan said:


> Just because Europe didn't let your guy walk over a country and put Russia on a path to industrial backwardness in the next decade, they are the dumb guys? In 2 years, with all the equipment for drilling from Schlumberger and other companies will be useless and PUtin will be sitting on black stuff not able to extract it.


Just because they give things for free to Ukraine.

It's ok to sell things and weapons to Ukraine, but it's dumb give it free.

By the other side, here Russia military drills of yesterday.









Russia conducts strategic nuclear forces drills


Russian strategic nuclear forces recently held military exercises observed by President Vladimir Putin. The joint drills involved sea, air, and ground forces. The annual exercises were announced in ad...




odysee.com





The background beeep beep sound make shivers in my balls

In the minute 1:20 you can see a meeting of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse (not what you would expect it)


----------



## Shawnee

Ukrainian expert: Air defenses withheld by Israel would be an ‘outstanding’ solution


Colonel Viktor Kevliuk says David's Sling, Barak, and Iron Dome systems would be a great fit for emerging array as Russia leans on Iranian-made weapons




www.timesofisrael.com





Since Ukraine is so successful against the drones then no more Gepard and NASAM.
No iron dumb needed

The west should thank Iran for wasting the Russian money.

Thank you Iran for selling your photoshopped junks!

We love you Iran.

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## BHAN85

Shawnee said:


> Ukrainian expert: Air defenses withheld by Israel would be an ‘outstanding’ solution
> 
> 
> Colonel Viktor Kevliuk says David's Sling, Barak, and Iron Dome systems would be a great fit for emerging array as Russia leans on Iranian-made weapons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since Ukraine is so successful against the drones then no more Gepard and NASAM.
> No iron dumb needed
> 
> The west should thank Iran for wasting the Russian money.



I wouldn't call Iron dumb to a weapon that it seems got from a science fiction futuristic movie and it works so incredible well

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## Shawnee

BHAN85 said:


> I wouldn't call Iron dumb to a weapon that it seems got from a science fiction futuristic movie and it works so incredible well



Never tested beyond Hamas mix of pipe and sugar. Literally you put sugar as solid fuel in a pipe.

If those pretty lights are amazing you, you should see the shining of CRAM or Iranian Saeer.

Some people do fall for that light and shine. Those who have not seen likes of CRAM.

Send iron dumb to Ukraine for a REAL test baby.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585264900464689153

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Indeed, a new world order is taking shape, Russia is to become Chinese bitches.......



Russia has always been a Chinese client state (used to be called vassal state before the era of woke political correctness).



Shawnee said:


> The west should thank Iran for wasting the Russian money.



All drones made in Russia and Iran are made by people in gulags. They don't cost a cent.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585363610955808768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585382382219460608


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585395344569163776

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585363399143088128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585382587929100288

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## Shawnee

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585395344569163776



A bit of history:

UCAV itself is an Iranian innovation since 1980s.
Nobody else has documented a real life shot from UCAV in a real war. 

This is Iranian Mohajer 1 from 1980s shooting in Iran-Iraq war:


----------



## sammuel

BHAN85 said:


> By the other side, Russia keeps the fast transformation in a North Korea King Size, doing nuclear blackmail to whole world, in a desesperate attempt to terrorize people and avoid the economic sanctions that are crushing Russian elite way of life, based in western luxuries.



Indeed , this is an extortion .

Maybe some here should reconsider their support for this man. Or is it they like living in a reality of a threat to some nuclear escalation.

~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585471919125676036

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585477461495758848


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## BHAN85

Shawnee said:


> Never tested beyond Hamas mix of pipe and sugar. Literally you put sugar as solid fuel in a pipe.
> 
> If those pretty lights are amazing you, you should see the shining of CRAM or Iranian Saeer.
> 
> Some people do fall for that light and shine. Those who have not seen likes of CRAM.
> 
> Send iron dumb to Ukraine for a REAL test baby.


Dude that system works almost automatically, to a lot of targets at the same time.

The operator just confirms target.

Iranian anti missile systems are operator assisted, and they sometimes have human errors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752

Iron "dumb" system save lives
Iran smart anti missiles systems kill innocent people due to errors

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## Shawnee

BHAN85 said:


> Dude that system works almost automatically, to a lot of targets at the same time.
> 
> The operator just confirms target.
> 
> Iranian anti missile systems are operator assisted, and they sometimes have human errors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752
> 
> Iron "dumb" system save lifes
> Iran smart anti missiles systems kill innocent people due to errors



That was Russian Tor M1. 
Operator made a mistake. Yes

Your iron dumb system is untested except for Hamas sugar pipe rockets.

Let Iran saturate them with cheap targets and missiles. Then decide


----------



## BHAN85

Shawnee said:


> That was Russian Tor M1.
> Operator made a mistake. Yes
> 
> Your iron dumb system is untested except for Hamas sugar pipe rockets.
> 
> Let Iran saturate them with cheap targets and missiles. Then decide


If Ukraine wants that system they have just to offer a fair price for it.

By they are used to get all for free from EU dumbshit rulers an d American twisted rulers.

Just pay well and you'll get it.


----------



## Hack-Hook

aviator_fan said:


> Where are you getting 3x the price: gas spot prices are 126% from a year ago. So yes they are higher but not 3x. And its not uncle sam, Qatar also supplying a big portion of Gas. So pls check your facts before you make claims. It means the rest of the stuff you post may be as exagerrated and not believable.


get your facts right , not consumer price , but the price that EU buy the gas , only Germany put a 200billion$ subsidiary budget to lower the consumer price, eu right now buy it at 3x time the price it bought gas last year from Russia .
after all when you have USA as Friend you don't need any enemy


----------



## gambit

A.P. Richelieu said:


> They are not paying high prices because the yield is low.
> They are paying high prices because it is a single source product.


Let us revisit this story...









Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia


What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame




www.theregister.com





China has a captive market -- Russia. And Russia, despite the plethora of electronics products in the world, is unable to access any of them. This story illustrate perfectly your example. If there is a single source of DDR5, then Apple and everyone else would paying a premium price no matter the per wafer yield. But there are many sources of DDR5, even if one source maybe slightly behind in tech node than competitors, the availability of many sources drives prices down, and any company whose DDR5 wafers have less than %50 yield will be rejected.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The yield is not defined as how many working die you get per wafer.
> It is defined as how many working die you get as a percentage of the actual number of dies.
> 
> You also avoided my example. please explain *why the low yielding design would be cheaper than the high yielding design*, and please avoid introducing new irrelevant parameters.


Because customers do not want them, simple as that. What I presented are very relevant, not just to everyone but to the China-Russia relationship.

As a buyer, I do not care how much you want to recoup your failure rate. If there are alternatives to you, that is an edge in my favor, not yours. If your wafer have a %50 yield, that is suspicious to me. If your wafer is in the new tech node, then we can negotiate, but if your wafer is of established tech nodes same as your competitors, why should I take a chance on yours?

Look at this paragraph in that story...

Even a two percent defect rate is sub-optimal, because products made of many components can therefore experience considerable quality problems. *Forty percent failure rates mean supplies are perilously close to being unfit for purpose.*​
A %40 failure rate mean *ALL* the dies on that wafer is suspicious. It mean I do not know what I would be buying from you. A die may pass your tests but could fail mine, a %2 risk I am willing to accept, but not %40. That is what the Russian electronic products manufacturers are telling the world of Chinese semicon sold to Russia. Simplistically speaking, we can say that out of 100 washing machines, each of them have a %40 chance of failure to run. Out of 100 cars, each of them have a %40 chance of getting the Russian equivalent of the 'Check Engine' light. The average Russian would not know until he paid for his stuff.

This story perfectly illustrate the danger of having the world's semicon products so concentrated in Asia. When JPN experienced earthquakes, semicon markets reacted on the next day by raising prices. If China gain control of the SCS, the world would be similar to what Russia is going thru now.



Paul2 said:


> I though that DRAM is never used in space in favour of SRAM


There is a section call 'Commercial DRAM in space'...



https://nepp.nasa.gov/mapld_2009/talks/083109_Monday/06_Troxel_Ian_mapld09_pres_2.pdf

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## Soldier35

A Russian Ka-52 helicopter attacked an infantry fighting vehicle of the Ukrainian army with a Vikhr guided missile. Filming of the battle in the Svatovo area.






A Russian Su-35 fighter dropped bombs, presumably a FAB-250, and evaded a Ukrainian soldier's MANPADS missile. The location of the battle in Ukraine is unknown, the FAB-250 bombs seem to slow down, as the explosions occur at the end of the video.






The pilot of the Russian Su-34 fighter-bomber spoke about combat work in Ukraine. Each star on the body of the aircraft is 10 sorties. The main purpose of the sorties of the Su-34 crews is to search for the air defense of the Ukrainian army, which works sporadically, which is why it is difficult to detect.






The Ukrainian army began to use the German IRIS-T SLM air defense system. The medium-range air defense system IRIS-T SLM was created on the basis of an aviation missile by Diehl Defense. The air defense system began to be mass-produced in 2014, but so far it has not yet been adopted by Germany. The complex uses only the Sweden version and Egypt. Perhaps the supply of air defense systems to Ukraine will help the sales of the complex on the world market. The IRIS-T SLM air defense system is a cross between the Russian Buk-M3 and TOR air defense systems. The complex uses IRIS-T air-to-air missiles. They are equipped with an infrared homing head used at the final stage of the missile's flight, the missile's speed is Mach 3. The launch range of the IRIS-T SLM missile is 40 km, the reach in height is 20 km. Judging by expert opinions, the complexes are inferior in some ways and superior in some respects to the air defense systems of Russia. There are many opinions on them, but so far air defense systems are not very popular on the market. Among the shortcomings, the possibility of recapturing the target with an infrared head at low altitudes is noted, but all this is guesswork, since the complexes did not participate in hostilities. The standard equipment of the air defense system includes a command post, radar and launchers with anti-aircraft missiles. The cost of the IRIS-T SLM complex is 178 million euros, missiles are 400 thousand euros.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Indeed, a new world order is taking shape, Russia is to become Chinese bitches.......
> 
> It has never been done before since the age of Kingdoms and Empires......
> 
> LOL



Not so fast. Putin been trying selling himself to Beijing for as long as I remember, and Beijing has never really went for that.

If Jiang, Hu, or Xi actually wanted Siberia, they would've gone for a deal with Putin years ago I think.

Russians are already selling us pretty much anything at rock bottom prices anyways, thus obviating all these "Chinese invasion of Siberia" talks.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Above water is ALWAYS above ground. Water collect at the lowest point of the ground, if it is above waterline, that mean it is above the lowest point of the ground...............I can't further explain to you as this is simple physics.
> 
> Also, you will have a secondary fire if the fireball that crashed into the ground ignite something, that is a fire dude, if a fire ball crashed on, say a car, it can ignite the gasoline inside that car and explode it. Let alone if the drone was intact when intercepted, that can still carry 50 kg of explosive. You may just be seeing the drone exploded after it has been intercepted.


simple explanation for you , drone hit top of the building , not first floor , and the explosion was at top of the buildings.

if you guys consider that as interception , good , I support you intercept 100% of our drones not Just 85% of them 


by looking at this and your reactions to it I now completely understand how you intercept 85% of Gran-2 drones . 
and no if the drone explode in the sky , the fuel disperse and there won't be such fire on the building and certainly there won't be that explosion , if it get intercepted by shrapnel of a cannon . that explosion only happen if you use a missile against it and it hit the drone directly or if it hit its target and detonate


----------



## Hack-Hook

aviator_fan said:


> There shoudl be an award for Bashar and Bearded Khomeni to be responsible for more muslim blood on their hands than Israel could ever come close to (actually while at it, put MBS as well). All three excel at war monging and killing Arabs direclty or by propping them to fight Israel. Iran has the glorious title of having fought with Iraq. So yes only an Iranian idiot would see Assad as a hero. The rest of the muslim world sees him as an Israeli agent who after 30 years still can't re-capture Golan heights but levelled Aleppo


Whats with you guys obsession with mr. Khomeini . he had died 36 year ago

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585568405322694656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585556946194669575

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## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583395191951876096
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583363865236340736
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583390496138743808


Those are some shit tier optics on the KA-52, literally no way to distinguish whether it's an enemy or a friendly.



Hack-Hook said:


> Whats with you guys obsession with mr. Khomeini . he had died 36 year ago


He means Khamenei, the names are confusing.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> simple explanation for you , drone hit top of the building , not first floor , and the explosion was at top of the buildings.
> 
> if you guys consider that as interception , good , I support you intercept 100% of our drones not Just 85% of them
> 
> 
> by looking at this and your reactions to it I now completely understand how you intercept 85% of Gran-2 drones .
> and no if the drone explode in the sky , the fuel disperse and there won't be such fire on the building and certainly there won't be that explosion , if it get intercepted by shrapnel of a cannon . that explosion only happen if you use a missile against it and it hit the drone directly or if it hit its target and detonate


Dude, if that drone hit the top of the building, it would have been exploded right then and there, most drone like this have impact fuse, especially you don't have optical so there can't be anything on remote det. 

I mean, the rest of your post seems like ranting, which is beneath you, I mean if you are so dead set on Ukraine did not shot down that particular drone, than you probably have more problem then you are or will be facing in the future. 

I interpret the incident as evidence suggested and my experience on damage assessment. That drone detonated above ground, and have secondary explosion, which suggest it HAS BEEN shot down, you are free to think otherwise. I honestly don't really care.



Paul2 said:


> Not so fast. Putin been trying selling himself to Beijing for as long as I remember, and Beijing has never really went for that.
> 
> If Jiang, Hu, or Xi actually wanted Siberia, they would've gone for a deal with Putin years ago I think.
> 
> Russians are already selling us pretty much anything at rock bottom prices anyways, thus obviating all these "Chinese invasion of Siberia" talks.


I was making a joke......lol


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> A %40 failure rate mean *ALL* the dies on that wafer is suspicious. It mean I do not know what I would be buying from you. A die may pass your tests but could fail mine, a %2 risk I am willing to accept, but not %40. That is what the Russian electronic products manufacturers are telling the world of Chinese semicon sold to Russia. Simplistically speaking, we can say that out of 100 washing machines, each of them have a %40 chance of failure to run. Out of 100 cars, each of them have a %40 chance of getting the Russian equivalent of the 'Check Engine' light. The average Russian would not know until he paid for his stuff.
> 
> This story perfectly illustrate the danger of having the world's semicon products so concentrated in Asia. When JPN experienced earthquakes, semicon markets reacted on the next day by raising prices. If China gain control of the SCS, the world would be similar to what Russia is going thru now.


the problem here is the failure was 2% , then after sanctions against russia it become 40% and Russia don't buy wafers , it buy chips.
If you buy wafers you get lower price , but there is no guaranty if the chips work or not. when you buy chips , the faulty chips is the responsibility of the producer , they must test the chips and give you working chips .

the only answer is that Russia seems dont buy the chips from manufacturer , they buy it from black markets , there there is no guarantee , the chance you get a faulty chip is even higher than when you buy the wafer.

now in overall perspective , ts not good or bad . it come the the point how much you pay for those chips . is it the price of normal chips ? is it half the price of normal chips , or its more expensive.
as how it translate on your final product , it simple , you had to use the chips before using it no matter from where you bought it . faulty chip means higher operation cost and more expensive final products , but they don't mean lower quality final product , well unless you don't test the chips before using it



jhungary said:


> Dude, if that drone hit the top of the building, it would have been exploded right then and there, most drone like this have impact fuse, especially you don't have optical so there can't be anything on remote det.
> 
> I mean, the rest of your post seems like ranting, which is beneath you, I mean if you are so dead set on Ukraine did not shot down that particular drone, than you probably have more problem then you are or will be facing in the future.
> 
> I interpret the incident as evidence suggested and my experience on damage assessment. That drone detonated above ground, and have secondary explosion, which suggest it HAS BEEN shot down, you are free to think otherwise. I honestly don't really care.


and the drone exploded at the impact point which was top of the building , and the fire was on top of the building , the fire didn't fall down(which was the case if the drone exploded in the sky )(and if that was the case , the fire would only have been a small fire not all the building top) , it was started at the impact point .
here you say because the explosion and fire was not at waterline , it was intercepted .
well ok , it get intercepted but by building

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## Beny Karachun

Soldier35 said:


> the complexes are inferior in some ways and superior in some respects to the air defense systems of Russia.


You mean superior in every way, since Russian garbage air defense barely works


----------



## Broccoli

Russian soldiers training with T-62. If Russia really has thousands T-72 in working condition then T-62 use would be pointless... logical conclusion is that Russian tank T-72 & T-80 reserves aren't as large as claimed.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585531865011822592

I remember when back in 2015 Russia fanboys were telling me that by 2020 Russian army will have at least 1000 T-14 Armata tanks but in 2022 Russian military is fielding tanks from early 1960's.

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## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> That was Russian Tor M1.
> Operator made a mistake. Yes
> 
> Your iron dumb system is untested except for Hamas sugar pipe rockets.
> 
> Let Iran saturate them with cheap targets and missiles. Then decide


Intercepting low flying high speed rockets is a thousand times harder than shooting down your own civilian airliner. Iron Dome intercepted rockets bigger and faster than HIMARS like M302. Also intercepted drones.

Iron Dome is purchased by the US to defend Guam against drones and cruise missiles, also purchased by Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Romania, and many other are looking to buy it.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> and the drone exploded at the impact point which was top of the building , and the fire was on top of the building , the fire didn't fall down(which was the case if the drone exploded in the sky )(and if that was the case , the fire would only have been a small fire not all the building top) , it was started at the impact point .
> here you say because the explosion and fire was not at waterline , it was intercepted .
> well ok , it get intercepted but by building



lol, it really didn't, that was flash explosion captured on 0:20, it's not a fuel-fire detonation. It's a lot easier to see at night because explosion strength shown pretty good with night contrast.

If that drone hit the building and exploded. There will be a flash explosion + fuel fire expanded outward. Like this at 0:05






You can still see the flash and then a fireball expanded into the air and into the direction of travel.

This is *NOT* presented in the night video at the time of explosion, in fact, the explosive effect got smaller after the flash explosion. Which mean after it exploded, it turns into a fireball and felt to the ground. It was a giant ball due to the radiated expansion in the air that was ignited. If the drone detonated, the fireball will not be round, it will be leaning toward the direction of travel....


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585507781557497856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585452870232866816

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## Vergennes

Broccoli said:


> Russian soldiers training with T-62. If Russia really has thousands T-72 in working condition then T-62 use would be pointless... logical conclusion is that Russian tank T-72 & T-80 reserves aren't as large as claimed.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585531865011822592
> 
> I remember when back in 2015 Russia fanboys were telling me that by 2020 Russian army will have at least 1000 T-14 Armata tanks but in 2022 Russian military is fielding tanks from early 1960's.



Actually what Russians call "reserve" are just large open garbage fields where heavy equipments are such in a poor state after decades of negligeance,corruption,theft only God knows how many of them can be put back into action.

But remember Russia isn't sending its real army into Ukraine,the real army is in Russia waiting for NATO and remember Russia can steamroll Europe in 48 hours.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585569029430939648

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585542575401959425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585587275668275200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585595228781776896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585588754449825793

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585586634665377794


----------



## Deino

1st peace offer in Istanbul ended in failure, after Boris Johnson rushed to Kiev and ordered UA President Zelensky not to sign it. .... since you don't sign an agreement based on agression!

2nd peace offer now comes with much worse terms for Ukraine. .... since Russia slowly accepts it cannot win this war and tries all its best to gain as much!

3rd peace offer in 2023 will be catastrophic. ... for Russia, since its collapses as a functioning state!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585582152724500480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585611401904771075

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585610376216969218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585593687215673349

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585587861457346564


Deino said:


> 1st peace offer in Istanbul ended in failure, after Boris Johnson rushed to Kiev and ordered UA President Zelensky not to sign it. .... since you don't sign an agreement based on agression!
> 
> 2nd peace offer now comes with much worse terms for Ukraine. .... since Russia slowly accepts it cannot win this war and tries all its best to gain as much!
> 
> 3rd peace offer in 2023 will be catastrophic. ... for Russia, since its collapses as a functioning state!



I think Russia's goal is to have Ukraine surrender Crimea and Donbas.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585614575633940483

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585614771860262918

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585595638405906436

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585588003736535041


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585599960338276352


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584521388236627970




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584607016882143232


----------



## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> Intercepting low flying high speed rockets is a thousand times harder than shooting down your own civilian airliner. Iron Dome intercepted rockets bigger and faster than HIMARS like M302. Also intercepted drones.
> 
> Iron Dome is purchased by the US to defend Guam against drones and cruise missiles, also purchased by Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Romania, and many other are looking to buy it.



I have seen iron dumb action only against Hamas sugar and pipe rockets.
Any more real war example?

UAV is an Austrian invention from 1900s.

UCAV first documented real use: Iran

First drone with air to air combat use: Iran

First anti-aircraft loitering drone: Iran

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585599215967039490

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## A.P. Richelieu

gambit said:


> Let us revisit this story...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia
> 
> 
> What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theregister.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has a captive market -- Russia. And Russia, despite the plethora of electronics products in the world, is unable to access any of them. This story illustrate perfectly your example. If there is a single source of DDR5, then Apple and everyone else would paying a premium price no matter the per wafer yield. But there are many sources of DDR5, even if one source maybe slightly behind in tech node than competitors, the availability of many sources drives prices down, and any company whose DDR5 wafers have less than %50 yield will be rejected.



Most customers are not aware of the yield and only buy packaged chips which they expect will meet the specification.
You claim that those with lower yield will be sold at a lower price than those products with a high yield.
Why would anyone reject the lower priced product over the higher price product when both are sold based on the same specification?

The reality is that the high yield vendor with 100 chips need to charge the wafer processing cost / 100 per chip to break even, and the low yielding vendor with 10 chips per wafer need to charge wafer processing cost / 10 to break even.

They need to charge 10x more due to the low yield.





gambit said:


> Because customers do not want them, simple as that. What I presented are very relevant, not just to everyone but to the China-Russia relationship.
> 
> As a buyer, I do not care how much you want to recoup your failure rate. If there are alternatives to you, that is an edge in my favor, not yours. If your wafer have a %50 yield, that is suspicious to me. If your wafer is in the new tech node, then we can negotiate, but if your wafer is of established tech nodes same as your competitors, why should I take a chance on yours?
> 
> Look at this paragraph in that story...
> 
> Even a two percent defect rate is sub-optimal, because products made of many components can therefore experience considerable quality problems. *Forty percent failure rates mean supplies are perilously close to being unfit for purpose.*​
> A %40 failure rate mean *ALL* the dies on that wafer is suspicious. It mean I do not know what I would be buying from you. A die may pass your tests but could fail mine, a %2 risk I am willing to accept, but not %40. That is what the Russian electronic products manufacturers are telling the world of Chinese semicon sold to Russia. Simplistically speaking, we can say that out of 100 washing machines, each of them have a %40 chance of failure to run. Out of 100 cars, each of them have a %40 chance of getting the Russian equivalent of the 'Check Engine' light. The average Russian would not know until he paid for his stuff.
> 
> This story perfectly illustrate the danger of having the world's semicon products so concentrated in Asia. When JPN experienced earthquakes, semicon markets reacted on the next day by raising prices. If China gain control of the SCS, the world would be similar to what Russia is going thru now.
> 
> 
> There is a section call 'Commercial DRAM in space'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nepp.nasa.gov


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585623450437263362

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## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> I have seen iron dumb action only against Hamas sugar and pipe rockets.
> Any more real war example?
> 
> UAV is an Austrian invention from 1900s.
> 
> UCAV first documented real use: Iran
> 
> First drone with air to air combat use: Iran
> 
> First anti-aircraft loitering drone: Iran


M302 are Iranian made rockets, copies of Chinese rockets, weighing 500kg. Intercepted by Iron Dome. Also intercepted Hezbollah and Hamas drones.
In tests it intercepted cruise missiles. 

You call UCAV a drone with RPG7s attached to it lmfao, first UAV usage was done by Israel in 1973.

First air to air usage of drones was done in 1990 in Iraq when MQ1s were firing stingers at enemies.

last one is just wrong

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> the problem here is the failure was 2% , then after sanctions against russia it become 40% and Russia don't buy wafers , it buy chips.
> If you buy wafers you get lower price , but there is no guaranty if the chips work or not. when you buy chips , the faulty chips is the responsibility of the producer , they must test the chips and give you working chips .
> 
> the only answer is that Russia seems dont buy the chips from manufacturer , they buy it from black markets , there there is no guarantee , the chance you get a faulty chip is even higher than when you buy the wafer.


Hey, we agree on something ! ! !


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585632533311803392


----------



## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> M302 are Iranian made rockets, copies of Chinese rockets, weighing 500kg. Intercepted by Iron Dome. Also intercepted Hezbollah and Hamas drones.
> In tests it intercepted cruise missiles.
> 
> You call UCAV a drone with RPG7s attached to it lmfao, first UAV usage was done by Israel in 1973.
> 
> First air to air usage of drones was done in 1990 in Iraq when MQ1s were firing stingers at enemies.
> 
> last one is just wrong



Show me a picture of your UCAV in 1970s in action. Don’t make anecdotes without proof.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585578469731213312


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585644467243323394

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584607016882143232




They have a Ukrainian accent. It is a staged video for propaganda purposes.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585637416047906818

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585619178857324545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585618670612627464

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## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> Show me a picture of your UCAV in 1970s in action. Don’t make anecdotes without proof.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

There is panic on the oart of Israeli and Western leaders with respect to Russian and Iranian cooperation. 👇 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585445206563819522

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585644866234523649

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585632358861918211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585613098932658176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585601939693359105

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## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> View attachment 889783
> 
> View attachment 889789
> 
> View attachment 889784
> 
> View attachment 889787
> 
> View attachment 889792
> 
> 
> View attachment 889793



This is not UCAV.

Show me UCAV in action.
This is Iran in 1980s in real war:


----------



## sammuel

Shawnee said:


> Show me a picture of your UCAV in 1970s in action. Don’t make anecdotes without proof.











The birth of the drone


The first flight took place on July 7, 1969 – 50 years ago next Sunday. The target was a row of Egyptian military positions located near Ismailia.




www.jpost.com

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## Shawnee

sammuel said:


> The birth of the drone
> 
> 
> The first flight took place on July 7, 1969 – 50 years ago next Sunday. The target was a row of Egyptian military positions located near Ismailia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com



First UAV was made by Austria in 1900s.

We are taking UCAV.
Please spare us the stories. Show me UCAV in action.

Iran UCAV in action 1980s Iran-Iraq war:


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585614575633940483

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## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> This is not UCAV.
> 
> Show me UCAV in action.
> This is Iran in 1980s in real war:
> 
> View attachment 889807


This isn't a UCAV, it's a UAV that had RPG-7 rockets strapped on it lol

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585542575401959425

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## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> This isn't a UCAV, it's a UAV that had RPG-7 rockets strapped on it lol



First ever UCAV. Controlled by video transmission and remote firing. 
When people had DVR.

Yes. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

Like the first ever car.

You had no same capacity


----------



## jhungary



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## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> First ever UCAV. Controlled by video transmission and remote firing.
> When people had DVR.
> 
> Yes. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
> 
> Like the first ever car.
> 
> You had no same capacity


Lmfao, if merely mounting unguided munitions on a drone is making it a UCAV, then the first UCAV would TDN-1 from 1942, that could drop a 1000lb bomb.

Also, the RPG-7s you mounted on that drone were basically useless

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## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> Lmfao, if merely mounting unguided munitions on a drone is making it a UCAV, then the first UCAV would TDN-1 from 1942, that could drop a 1000lb bomb.
> 
> Also, the RPG-7s you mounted on that drone were basically useless



To be UCAV you need to be reusable.
They had kills in Iraq war with DVT and radio guidance.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Shawnee said:


> Show me a picture of your UCAV in 1970s in action. Don’t make anecdotes without proof.











Unmanned combat aerial vehicle - Wikipedia
 






en.wikipedia.org



















How the MQ-9 Reaper Works


Early unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) primarily carried out reconnaissance missions in war zones, but the Reaper packs some serious heat. Is there anything more foreboding than a drone with a Hellfire missile?




science.howstuffworks.com





During the American Civil War, an inventor patented an unmanned balloon that carried explosives that could be dropped after a time-delay fuse mechanism triggered the basket to overturn its contents. Air currents and weather patterns made it difficult to estimate for how long to set the fuse, and the balloon was never successfully deployed.

Iran, deploying something in the late 1980s cannot have invented something which was patented in the 1860s.









Remembering the Death of Lt. Joe Kennedy Jr. and America’s First Combat Drones


Seventy years ago, on August 12, 1944, Lieutenant Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. perished in one of the first American fatalities associated with a pilotless aircraft, which we usually know today as a drone or unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV). The older brother of future president, John F. Kennedy, was...




airandspace.si.edu

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## ZeGerman

Shawnee said:


> To be UCAV you need to be reusable.
> They had kills in Iraq war with DVT and radio guidance.


Iranians have long been smart and resourceful.

Too bad under the mullahs they are mostly busy with beating their own women, and trying to outdo the salafis in antisemitism.

their drone tactics is mis-used to support russian colonialism and terrorism against ukranian civilians….while nato and israel will test and greatly improve their drone counter weapons/strategies….

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## Shawnee

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Unmanned combat aerial vehicle - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 889814
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the MQ-9 Reaper Works
> 
> 
> Early unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) primarily carried out reconnaissance missions in war zones, but the Reaper packs some serious heat. Is there anything more foreboding than a drone with a Hellfire missile?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> science.howstuffworks.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the American Civil War, an inventor patented an unmanned balloon that carried explosives that could be dropped after a time-delay fuse mechanism triggered the basket to overturn its contents. Air currents and weather patterns made it difficult to estimate for how long to set the fuse, and the balloon was never successfully deployed.
> 
> Iran, deploying something in the late 1980s cannot have invented something which was patented in the 1860s.



American patent is a design and patent and no proof it was ever built.

That as well as Japanese balloon bombs are not reusable and don’t have real time control.
More like cruise missiles with no control.

Austrian version in 1900s had very limited radio guidance and not reusable to our knowledge. Not sure of ever built and is only a design. However no use in any war.

UCAV is controllable and reusable.

First ever documented controllable reusable drone (UCAV) is this:
1980s






American UCAV comes in 1990s.

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## Viet

Wow

It looks great.

Gas price futures go negative.

Putin helps EU to accelerate to renewable energy.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584542789068627970


----------



## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> American patent is a design and patent and no proof it was ever built.
> 
> That as well as Japanese balloon bombs are not reusable and don’t have real time control.
> More like cruise missiles with no control.
> 
> Austrian version in 1900s had very limited radio guidance and not reusable to our knowledge. Not sure of ever built and is only a design. However no use in any war.
> 
> UCAV is controllable and reusable.
> 
> First ever documented controllable reusable drone (UCAV) is this:
> 1980s
> 
> View attachment 889819
> 
> 
> American UCAV comes in 1990s.


Conveniently ignores the TDN-1 from the 1940s.

Also who said UCAVs have to be reusable drones?


----------



## Shawnee

American civil war patent


Beny Karachun said:


> Conveniently ignores the TDN-1 from the 1940s.
> 
> Also who said UCAVs have to be reusable drones?



TDN1 project abandoned because it failed to work:


“Developed and tested during 1942 and 1943, the design proved moderately successful, but development of improved drones saw the TDN-1 relegated to second-line duties, and none were used in operational service.”

Iran made the DVR images controllable.

Iran used it in Iran Iraq war.
Documented it.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585661656901865476

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585666599520014336

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## Viet

Putin, Shoigu, Gerasimov are exposed again as liars. They accused Ukraine of building dirty nuclear bombs. As evidence they show the world pictures of broken smoke detectors in Slovenia.






Bild vergrößern
Wladimir Putin
Foto: ALEXEI BABUSHKIN / AFP

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## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> American civil war patent
> 
> 
> TDN1 project abandoned because it failed to work:
> 
> 
> “Developed and tested during 1942 and 1943, the design proved moderately successful, but development of improved drones saw the TDN-1 relegated to second-line duties, and none were used in operational service.”
> 
> Iran made the DVR images controllable.
> 
> Iran used it in Iran Iraq war.
> Documented it.


Bruh, TDN-1 is from 1942, falls under the definition of a drone, and dropped a bomb, so garbage Iranian drone strapped with rockets wasn't even the first UCAV, not by a long shot.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585672445679239168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585672447839404032

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## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> Bruh, TDN-1 is from 1942, falls under the definition of a drone, and dropped a bomb, so garbage Iranian drone strapped with rockets wasn't even the first UCAV, not by a long shot.



TDN1 did not work per US. Abandoned project.

Iranian UCAV with RPG worked in a real war and had kills.

No picture of TDN1 firing. No document it ever fired. No real war use.

Iranian UCAV pictured while attacking. Iran Iraq war. Worked. Could be reused.

TDN1 can be called loitering munition. Then why is Israel saying they invented loitering munitions??

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## 1ndy

Shawnee said:


> TDN1 did not work per US. Abandoned project.
> 
> Iranian UCAV with RPG worked in a real war and had kills.
> 
> No picture of TDN1 firing. No document it ever fired. No real war use.
> 
> Iranian UCAV pictured while attacking. Iran Iraq war. Worked. Could be reused.
> 
> TDN1 can be called loitering munition. Then why is Israel saying they invented loitering munitions??


Can you make UCAV in 2022 without evil west's chips? If the answer is YES then I will believe that Iran is the inventor of UCAV.

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## Shawnee

1ndy said:


> Can you make UCAV in 2022 without evil west's chips? If the answer is YES then I will believe that Iran is the inventor of UCAV.



With Iranian and Chinese chips. Larger but works.

One example:




__





نمایشگاه تجهیزات و مواد آزمایشگاهی ایران ساخت







iranlabexpo.ir






You understand that western chips are full of Chinese rare metals, plastic, raw materials?

Iran makes all 17 rare earth metals at home. If needed.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585662666961522694


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585654971386810368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585654977011351556

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585626310927421440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585620445641973763

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585696020599836672

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## The SC

Two INSANE UNSEEN Trench Assaults | Ukraine War | Combat Footage​


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585700350761353218


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585706186174783490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585682920622129167

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585644866234523649

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585687481609068545

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## The SC



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585721570710130688

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> They have a Ukrainian accent. It is a staged video for propaganda purposes.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585637416047906818
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585619178857324545
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585618670612627464


"They have Ukrainian accents?"

So no real proof?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Another smoking related incident in russian occupied Donbass

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585440104285356033

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## F-22Raptor

Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





Russian losses now exceed 7,600

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian military has released a video on October 26 2022 in which can been seen how Dontsk people's army is fighting with Ukrainian army in close combat. In the end, 5 Ukrainian soldiers have surrendered to Donetsk people's army.

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## 1ndy

Shawnee said:


> With Iranian and Chinese chips. Larger but works.
> 
> One example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> نمایشگاه تجهیزات و مواد آزمایشگاهی ایران ساخت
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iranlabexpo.ir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You understand that western chips are full of Chinese rare metals, plastic, raw materials?
> 
> Iran makes all 17 rare earth metals at home. If needed.









Nah! You cannot... You are forced to use 40 year old US designed chips...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585739135062798336


1ndy said:


> You are forced to use 40 year old US designed chips



Texas Instrument chips are cheap and they are pretty slow but they are okay for military applications. Most US military hardware use Texas Instrument chips. Russia also uses chips made by Rostec in their military hardware which are just as cheap and slow.






Angstrem (company) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Shawnee

1ndy said:


> View attachment 889876
> 
> 
> Nah! You cannot... You are forced to use 40 year old US designed chips...



It is for comfort of the scientists who are historically comfortable with US chips and American FPGA programming.

They can easily switch if needed.

You see the drone performance and efficiency.
More butt burning outside of Ukraine

Iranians are educated on US FPGA as of now.

This can change.

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## 1ndy

Shawnee said:


> With Iranian and Chinese chips. Larger but works.
> 
> One example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> نمایشگاه تجهیزات و مواد آزمایشگاهی ایران ساخت
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iranlabexpo.ir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You understand that western chips are full of Chinese rare metals, plastic, raw materials?
> 
> Iran makes all 17 rare earth metals at home. If needed.


Yasin's products are based on Xilinx chips. 



Shawnee said:


> It is for comfort of the scientists who are historically comfortable with US chips and American FPGA programming.
> 
> They can easily switch if needed.
> 
> You see the drone performance and efficiency.
> More butt burning outside of Ukraine
> 
> Iranians are educated on US FPGA as of now.
> 
> This can change.


Yes! definitely, this can change but not today, not tomorrow, not in a decade.

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## Shawnee

1ndy said:


> Yasin's products are based on Xilinx chips.



All Iranian universities teach US chips 
FPGA, EPRAM and etc

It is easy to change.

Iran has a lot of domestic FPGA companies too. I gave one example.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585743318369337344

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## 1ndy

Shawnee said:


> All Iranian universities teach US chips
> FPGA, EPRAM and etc
> 
> It is easy to change.
> 
> Iran has a lot of domestic FPGA companies too. I gave one example.


That very example (Yasin) usage Xilinx FPGA, processors etc...

And it is now proved that you can't make an UCAV without US chips in 2022.

Will not reply you after this one.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585735744450170883

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585731638671339520

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BHAN85

F-22Raptor said:


> Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian losses now exceed 7,600


By the other side Ukraine losses now exceed more than 7,000 washing machines captured


----------



## aviator_fan

Shawnee said:


> All Iranian universities teach US chips
> FPGA, EPRAM and etc
> 
> It is easy to change.
> 
> Iran has a lot of domestic FPGA companies too. I gave one example.


You are so proud of Iran's ingenuity, but in the end the entire IRGC and the armament industry it generates is worthless. This is the FIRST time its been used to kill non-muslims. Up until now the only results they have caused is more Arab deaths [I am referring to Iranian Govt's approach to fund this, not the Iranian people]

In Yemen, the country has been devastated to a starving cholera invested nation with responsibility both with Iran and Saudi Arabia.

What they teach in the unviersities is worthless too: these weapons have no military effect on Israel. Have never had, will never have. All it does is get the Ghazans to be cannon fodder. Isreal continues to thrive, remove settlers, and for every single Israeli they may lose , they kill 100 Ghazans.

This is the worthlessness of Iranian ingenuity. This is the first time the weapons (which Iran completely denies of course) are being to used to some military effect but not against the military so it will phase itself out. Its another month before a countermeasure is developed for this but till Iran can for the FIRST time be proud that at least they are doing something to the enemy that is at par with Israel in Ghaza: , going after civilian buildings.

Genius Iran, genius

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## aviator_fan

Shawnee said:


> The link I provided contains 100+ FPGA companies with different options. Use search option.
> 
> Whether or not you respond, Iranian drones have put butts on fire.
> 
> Adios


Yes and so 50 year old Hawks are being brought of storage to shoot down this WWI performance equivalent drone. Thats how you intimidate the enemy when you get them to bring 50 year old weapons that have been written off in most NATO inventory. Spain just shipped the first batch.

The whole '$200K vs. $20K' argument goes away. Its cold sunk cost. Already paid for and put in storage to waste away

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## Shawnee

aviator_fan said:


> You are so proud of Iran's ingenuity, but in the end the entire IRGC and the armament industry it generates is worthless. This is the FIRST time its been used to kill non-muslims. Up until now the only results they have caused is more Arab deaths [I am referring to Iranian Govt's approach to fund this, not the Iranian people]
> 
> In Yemen, the country has been devastated to a starving cholera invested nation with responsibility both with Iran and Saudi Arabia.
> 
> What they teach in the unviersities is worthless too: these weapons have no military effect on Israel. Have never had, will never have. All it does is get the Ghazans to be cannon fodder. Isreal continues to thrive, remove settlers, and for every single Israeli they may lose , they kill 100 Ghazans.
> 
> This is the worthlessness of Iranian ingenuity. This is the first time the weapons (which Iran completely denies of course) are being to used to some military effect but not against the military so it will phase itself out. Its another month before a countermeasure is developed for this but till Iran can for the FIRST time be proud that at least they are doing something to the enemy that is at par with Israel in Ghaza: , going after civilian buildings.
> 
> Genius Iran, genius



What have you done to stop the settlements and help Palestinians?
Overestimating Israel and alienating Iran.

We shall see the effect of counter measures in your one month.


----------



## BHAN85

aviator_fan said:


> You are so proud of Iran's ingenuity, but in the end the entire IRGC and the armament industry it generates is worthless. This is the FIRST time its been used to kill non-muslims. Up until now the only results they have caused is more Arab deaths.
> 
> In Yemen, the country has been devastated to a starving cholera invested nation with responsibility both with Iran and Saudi Arabia.
> 
> What they teach in the unviersities is worthless too: these weapons have no military effect on Israel. Have never had, will never have. All it does is get the Ghazans to be cannon fodder. Isreal continues to thrive, remove settlers, and for every single Israeli they may lose , they kill 100 Ghazans.
> 
> This is the worthlessness of Iranian ingenuity. This is the first time the weapons (which Iran completely denies of course) are being to used to some military effect but not against the military so it will phase itself out. Its another month before a countermeasure is developed for this but till Iran can for the FIRST time be proud that at least they are doing something to the enemy that is at par with Israel in Ghaza: , going after civilian buildings.
> 
> Genius Iran, genius
> 
> Unintended consequence: at some point way Putin may be regarded as a hero for getting the world off fossil fuels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IEA: War in Ukraine likely to accelerate energy transition - Energy Live News
> 
> 
> The IEA warns that investment in renewables needs to triple by 2030 to help countries achieve net zero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.energylivenews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IEA: War in Ukraine likely to accelerate energy transition​The IEA warns that investment in renewables needs to triple by 2030 to help countries achieve net zero
> 
> Thursday 27 October 2022
> 
> The current energy crisis, triggered by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, could become a “historic turning point” towards a cleaner energy system.
> In its 524-page World Energy Outlook report, the International Energy Agency suggests that the current crisis provides a “short-term boost” to demand for fossil fuels such as oil and coal but the “lasting gains” come from renewables and nuclear in some cases.
> The Paris-based intergovernmental organisation predicts that a peak for fossil fuel demand is in sight – experts say that coal use will fall back within the next few years and natural gas demand will reach a plateau by the end of the decade.
> 
> Rising sales of electric vehicles also mean that oil demand will start reducing in the mid-2030s, according to the report.
> Analysts also estimate that the current energy price rises could see nearly 75 million people worldwide who recently gained access to electricity lose it this year.
> If that happens, it would mean that the number of people without access to modern energy rises for the first time in a decade.
> The IEA has also stressed that the world must triple clean energy investment by 2030 to curb climate change – it estimates that countries need to spend around $4 trillion (£3.4tn) in clean energy investment by 2030.
> Dr Fatih Birol, Executive Director of the IEA, said: “It is essential to bring everyone on board, especially at a time when geopolitical fractures on energy and climate are all the more visible.
> “This means redoubling efforts to ensure that a broad coalition of countries has a stake in the new energy economy. The journey to a more secure and sustainable energy system may not be a smooth one. But today’s crisis makes it crystal clear why we need to press ahead.”


Iran dont seek effects on Israel or Yemen.

Iran seeks avoid a USA/Israel first strike against them, and they are successful in that.

Remember Iraq 2003, remember Libya and Qaddafi impalament in 2011.

Remember Iran Hormuz Strait Tensions in 2011/2012, but it happened nothing but the Iran Deal in 2015.

So that's a great success of Iran deterrence.

Hussein and Qaddafi didn't be able to stop a Western war against them, even though they started to collaborate in last moments, but that doesnt work against a snake, Iran strategy works.

Moreover they are even more admirable than NK, because they has achieved the deterrence without develop nukes, just home made conventional weapons.


----------



## aviator_fan

Shawnee said:


> With Iranian and Chinese chips. Larger but works.
> 
> One example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> نمایشگاه تجهیزات و مواد آزمایشگاهی ایران ساخت
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iranlabexpo.ir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You understand that western chips are full of Chinese rare metals, plastic, raw materials?
> 
> Iran makes all 17 rare earth metals at home. If needed.


Texas Instrument is an Iranian or Chinese company? Pls send picture of its Texas Instrument HQ in Isfahan that make the 'larger' chips

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## Shawnee

aviator_fan said:


> Yes and so 50 year old Hawks are being brought of storage to shoot down this WWI performance equivalent drone. Thats how you intimidate the enemy when you get them to bring 50 year old weapons that have been written off in most NATO inventory. Spain just shipped the first batch.
> 
> The whole '$200K vs. $20K' argument goes away. Its cold sunk cost. Already paid for and put in storage to waste away



If this was WWI weapon, 23 countries would not be in line to buy it from Iran.




aviator_fan said:


> Texas Instrument is an Iranian or Chinese company? Pls send picture of its Texas Instrument HQ in Isfahan that make the 'larger' chips



Use the search in my link please. Look up the companies


----------



## aviator_fan

Shawnee said:


> What have you done to stop the settlements and help Palestinians?
> Overestimating Israel and alienating Iran.
> 
> We shall see the effect of counter measures in your one month.


Look back through last 3 hizbollah engagements in Israel. No change in Israel (or may IRGC press tells you otherwise). Each time, entire sections of Ghaza levelled and stay destroyed. Thats what happens so the world is right estimating Iran when it has no impact.

Iran's strategy in Palestine is to have Ghaza destroyed block by block by virtue of its worthless drones.

As for counter measures: they are called 50 year old Hawks that are on the way as a start.



BHAN85 said:


> Iran dont seek effects on Israel or Yemen.
> 
> Iran seeks avoid a USA/Israel first strike against them, and they are successful in that.
> 
> Remember Iraq 2003, remember Libya and Qaddafi impalament in 2011.
> 
> Remember Iran Hormuz Strait Tensions in 2011/2012, but it happened nothing but the Iran Deal in 2015.
> 
> So that's a great success of Iran deterrence.
> 
> Hussein and Qaddafi didn't be able to stop a Western war against them, even though they started to collaborate in last moments, but that doesnt work against a snake, Iran strategy works.
> 
> Moreover they are even more admirable than NK, because they has achieved the deterrence without develop nukes, just home made conventional weapons.


WTF are you talking about: Yemen is an Iran proxy. ANd Hizbollah and Hamas are both equipped by Iran. What tree do you live in. Do you think Hamas is making these rockets in Ghaza when it can't even get fuel for the city?

Unintended consequence: at some point way Putin may be regarded as a hero for getting the world off fossil fuels. What not all the environmentalists could do, Putin would have accomplished. May be in a 100 years the 'Save the planet peace prize', assuming he doesn't use a nuke first










IEA: War in Ukraine likely to accelerate energy transition - Energy Live News


The IEA warns that investment in renewables needs to triple by 2030 to help countries achieve net zero




www.energylivenews.com





IEA: War in Ukraine likely to accelerate energy transition​The IEA warns that investment in renewables needs to triple by 2030 to help countries achieve net zero

Thursday 27 October 2022

The current energy crisis, triggered by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, could become a “historic turning point” towards a cleaner energy system.
In its 524-page World Energy Outlook report, the International Energy Agency suggests that the current crisis provides a “short-term boost” to demand for fossil fuels such as oil and coal but the “lasting gains” come from renewables and nuclear in some cases.
The Paris-based intergovernmental organisation predicts that a peak for fossil fuel demand is in sight – experts say that coal use will fall back within the next few years and natural gas demand will reach a plateau by the end of the decade.

Rising sales of electric vehicles also mean that oil demand will start reducing in the mid-2030s, according to the report.
Analysts also estimate that the current energy price rises could see nearly 75 million people worldwide who recently gained access to electricity lose it this year.
If that happens, it would mean that the number of people without access to modern energy rises for the first time in a decade.
The IEA has also stressed that the world must triple clean energy investment by 2030 to curb climate change – it estimates that countries need to spend around $4 trillion (£3.4tn) in clean energy investment by 2030.
Dr Fatih Birol, Executive Director of the IEA, said: “It is essential to bring everyone on board, especially at a time when geopolitical fractures on energy and climate are all the more visible.
“This means redoubling efforts to ensure that a broad coalition of countries has a stake in the new energy economy. The journey to a more secure and sustainable energy system may not be a smooth one. But today’s crisis makes it crystal clear why we need to press ahead.”


----------



## Shawnee

aviator_fan said:


> Look back through last 3 hizbollah engagements in Israel. No change in Israel (or may IRGC press tells you otherwise). Each time, entire sections of Ghaza levelled and stay destroyed. Thats what happens so the world is right estimating Iran when it has no impact.
> 
> Iran's strategy in Palestine is to have Ghaza destroyed block by block by virtue of its worthless drones.
> 
> As for counter measures: they are called 50 year old Hawks that are on the way as a start.
> 
> 
> WTF are you talking about: Yemen is an Iran proxy. ANd Hizbollah and Hamas are both equipped by Iran. What tree do you live in. Do you think Hamas is making these rockets in Ghaza when it can't even get fuel for the city?



Hizbullah took south Lebanon back. 

What have you done? What is your solution? Do better than Iran.

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## BHAN85

aviator_fan said:


> Texas Instrument is an Iranian or Chinese company? Pls send picture of its Texas Instrument HQ in Isfahan that make the 'larger' chips


The pic posted is not a prove of anything, it can be got from any other device.

Anyway is a old design and China can manufacture chips like those and better.

AFAIK Chinese doesnt design processor architectures of the chips they manufacture, they just use Western designs, why reinvent the wheel?









Texas Instruments TMS320 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





It has nothing special that it doesnt have a million more modern alternatives.


----------



## ziaulislam

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632915992150016
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632927690055680
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632967850139648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632975144022017
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584632980349194240
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/UnrollHelper/status/1585083594757791746
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584991242714517504


This is war thread not a propoganda thread.
Lets keep it to war see who wininng

Seems ukriane is inching towards getting donbas back.slowly but steady and russia hasnt been able to counter.

Will russia escalate further?

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> Whats with you guys obsession with mr. Khomeini . he had died 36 year ago


Valid point: I should have used the word 'Ayotollah' , 'supreme leader' as they are two different individuals performing the same function. My opinions aside, I should not generalize and not come equipped with the right term.


----------



## BHAN85

aviator_fan said:


> WTF are you talking about: Yemen is an Iran proxy. ANd Hizbollah and Hamas are both equipped by Iran. What tree do you live in. Do you think Hamas is making these rockets in Ghaza when it can't even get fuel for the city?
> 
> Unintended consequence: at some point way Putin may be regarded as a hero for getting the world off fossil fuels. What not all the environmentalists could do, Putin would have accomplished. May be in a 100 years the 'Save the planet peace prize', assuming he doesn't use a nuke first


I didn't say the opposite. I just said that Iran main target when they "help" hezbollah is the deterrence to avoid a Israel first strike against them (against Iran, not against Lebanon). And they are succesful in that, they got it.

Ten years from this clown making the ridiculous in UN, threating with a first strike against Iran:







About Yemen, just a battlefield to test weapons, for Iran and for SA.

Also the target is have the capacity to block hormuz if someday USA attacks them, and they got it too.

USA barked against Iran one decade ago, but unlike Iraq or Libya, they did nothing but the Iran Deal.

It's a great Iran success.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BHAN85 said:


> The pic posted is not a prove of anything, it can be got from any other device.
> 
> Anyway is a old design and China can manufacture chips like those and better.
> 
> AFAIK Chinese doesnt design processor architectures of the chips they manufacture, they just use Western designs, why reinvent the wheel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texas Instruments TMS320 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing special that it doesnt have a million more modern alternatives.



If you consider the fact Apache helicopter went into serial production in 1982. This 1983 chip is very good for military applications.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Shawnee said:


> American patent is a design and patent and no proof it was ever built.
> 
> That as well as Japanese balloon bombs are not reusable and don’t have real time control.
> More like cruise missiles with no control.
> 
> Austrian version in 1900s had very limited radio guidance and not reusable to our knowledge. Not sure of ever built and is only a design. However no use in any war.
> 
> UCAV is controllable and reusable.
> 
> First ever documented controllable reusable drone (UCAV) is this:
> 1980s
> 
> View attachment 889819
> 
> 
> American UCAV comes in 1990s.


An UCAV is a combat drone.
Show proof that the Iranian ”UCAV” actually hit anything.

”The modern military drone as known today was the brainchild of John Stuart Foster Jr., a nuclear physicist and former head of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (then called the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory).[8] In 1971, Foster was a model airplane hobbyist and had the idea this hobby could be applied to building weapons.[8] He drew up plans and by 1973 DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) built two prototypes called "Prairie" and "Calera". They were powered by a modified lawn-mower engine and could stay aloft for two hours while carrying a 28-pound (13 kg) load.”

Don’t bother answer, as You are on ignore from now on.

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> I didn't say the opposite. I just said that Iran main target when they "help" hezbollah is the deterrence to avoid a Israel first strike against them (against Iran, not against Lebanon). And they are succesful in that, they got it.
> 
> Ten years from this clown making the ridiculous in UN, threating with a first strike against Iran:


Israel has threatened to respond to a first strike with nuclear weapons.
I certainly cannot recall that Israel has threatened a first strike with nuclear weapons.
I can recall many people which claims on PDF that Israel has threatened a first strike with nuclear weapons without being able to prove their claim.
Are you one of them?

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> The pic posted is not a prove of anything, it can be got from any other device.
> 
> Anyway is a old design and China can manufacture chips like those and better.
> 
> AFAIK Chinese doesnt design processor architectures of the chips they manufacture, they just use Western designs, why reinvent the wheel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texas Instruments TMS320 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing special that it doesnt have a million more modern alternatives.


There are plenty of articles floating around.










American CPUs found in Iran-made kamikaze drones


ECONOMICHNA PRAVDA - MONDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2022, 14:53 Iran-made Shahed-131 kamikaze drones contain processors manufactured by Texas Instruments, the U.S. company. This is stated in the information posted by the Department of Strategic Communications of the Office of the Commander-in-Chief of the...




news.yahoo.com





Iran has not denied this.

In order to debunk this claim, you need to show how a drone is disassembled and electronics inspected.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> There are plenty of articles floating around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American CPUs found in Iran-made kamikaze drones
> 
> 
> ECONOMICHNA PRAVDA - MONDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2022, 14:53 Iran-made Shahed-131 kamikaze drones contain processors manufactured by Texas Instruments, the U.S. company. This is stated in the information posted by the Department of Strategic Communications of the Office of the Commander-in-Chief of the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran has not denied this.
> 
> In order to debunk this claim, you need to show how a drone is disassembled and electronics inspected.



Not necessarily American made. Most likely Chinese made. These are sold on Ali Express and it is known SMIC is a major manufacturer of Texas Instrument chips.


----------



## Shawnee

A.P. Richelieu said:


> An UCAV is a combat drone.
> Show proof that the Iranian ”UCAV” actually hit anything.
> 
> ”The modern military drone as known today was the brainchild of John Stuart Foster Jr., a nuclear physicist and former head of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (then called the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory).[8] In 1971, Foster was a model airplane hobbyist and had the idea this hobby could be applied to building weapons.[8] He drew up plans and by 1973 DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) built two prototypes called "Prairie" and "Calera". They were powered by a modified lawn-mower engine and could stay aloft for two hours while carrying a 28-pound (13 kg) load.”
> 
> Don’t bother answer, as You are on ignore from now on.



If you disliked Shahed 135, you are going to hate Arash and Fateh series 

As I always say, more damage is done by Shahed drone outside of Ukraine. So many butts on fire.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585614320745988104


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585739496091316226

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khansaheeb

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585261755902697472
> Russian army no longer looks like an army,but a ragtag militia

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

seems the CIA is very active in Ukraine.

Russia will see USSR Afghanistan war redux.






An American volunteer teaching Ukrainian soldiers how to use a Javelin at a base outside Zaporizhzhia in South Eastern Ukraine.Credit...Lynsey Addario for The New York Times

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## sammuel

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585687481609068545



That is a 2a36 giatsint-b 152mm towed gun and has been in service since 1975.

It weighs 9,760 kg , compare that to the M777 howitzer , that weighs 4,200 kg .

Seems like with T-62 , their appearance indicates that Russia is running out not only of tanks , but also of armillary.

~

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## alimobin memon

sammuel said:


> That is a 2a36 giatsint-b 152mm towed gun and has been in service since 1975.
> 
> It weighs 9,760 kg , compare that to the M777 howitzer , that weighs 4,200 kg .
> 
> Seems like with T-62 , their appearance indicates that Russia is running out not only of tanks , but also of armillary.
> 
> ~


Whether out of new items or not. One thing is clear Russia is stubborn to abandon this that easy. Between the artillery is fine. Its not mountainous regions where its difficult to transport 9 ton artillery.


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## sammuel

alimobin memon said:


> Its not mountainous regions where its difficult to transport 9 ton artillery.



No , but it is going to be rather muddy soon.


----------



## alimobin memon

sammuel said:


> No , but it is going to be rather muddy soon.


If afghans with same russian weapons can fight then russians can also fight.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585902409100201985


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585927104562335745

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## Vergennes

Russian mobiks getting captured all over the frontline. Seems like sending poorly trained equipped and motivated men isn't a good solution after all


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585885548434137090

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> lol, it really didn't, that was flash explosion captured on 0:20, it's not a fuel-fire detonation. It's a lot easier to see at night because explosion strength shown pretty good with night contrast.
> 
> If that drone hit the building and exploded. There will be a flash explosion + fuel fire expanded outward. Like this at 0:05
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can still see the flash and then a fireball expanded into the air and into the direction of travel.
> 
> This is *NOT* presented in the night video at the time of explosion, in fact, the explosive effect got smaller after the flash explosion. Which mean after it exploded, it turns into a fireball and felt to the ground. It was a giant ball due to the radiated expansion in the air that was ignited. If the drone detonated, the fireball will not be round, it will be leaning toward the direction of travel....


you don't see fuel explosion because the camera is blinded after the impact and explosive explosion the fuel explosion is immediately after that , you can see its effect when camere again manage to get video in the form of the building be on fire



jhungary said:


> This is *NOT* presented in the night video at the time of explosion, in fact, the explosive effect got smaller after the flash explosion. Which mean after it exploded, it turns into a fireball and felt to the ground. It was a giant ball due to the radiated expansion in the air that was ignited. If the drone detonated, the fireball will not be round, it will be leaning toward the direction of travel....


depend on the position of camera and how the drone come down , if it dive , the explosion lean toward nowhere


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> you don't see fuel explosion because the camera is blinded after the impact and explosive explosion the fuel explosion is immediately after that , you can see its effect when camere again manage to get video in the form of the building be on fire
> 
> 
> depend on the position of camera and how the drone come down , if it dive , the explosion lean toward nowhere


Dude, com'on....Now you are moving the goal post once again....

First you say "*your mistake is that because its above water line you think its above the ground"*

Then I explained that water collect at the lowest spot on the ground, which is simple physics. Which mean if it is above waterline, then it is above ground."

Then you say "*drone hit top of the building , not first floor , and the explosion was at top of the buildings*."

First, that's completely 180 degree turn from your previous comment (which is you thought it is at ground level, now you think it hit the building)

Then I explained that since that drone don't have optics and comm module, it most definitely will have an impact fuse, so when that drone hit the building, it will not have a second det like you claim before (another contradiction to what you have said)

And then I further explained that if that drone hits its target, the debris will carry the explosion forward (or whereever the drone goes) and the fireball will not be perfect ball shape, it will be leading toward the motion of travel.

Then now you say "*camera is blinded after the impact and explosive explosion the fuel explosion is immediately after that*"

lol, camera won't be blinded by the flash, that's what flash do because the explosion will last a lot longer than the flash, and what is "If the drone dive, it goes no where?" Dude, even if it dive 90 degree straight down, the momentum will carry the drone forward to heavy side up. It's like if you drop something that have serious weight on the floor, once it hit the floor, it will NOT stay at where it first hit the ground, it will simply bounce off (the heavier the object the less the distance it bounce off to). That's because of Newton third law of motion, for every force there is a equal and opposite reaction force, and when that reaction force applies to the object being dropped on the floor, the momentum of the object will lead off the object. And If you had ever fire an explosive round straight down (like dropping a grenade on the floor), you will see the explosion will not just crater the floor, it will still have debris and each part will be flew off according to the size and weight.

Dude, you are moving your own argument trying to suit the situation, which is a sign you are losing said argument because if that is a fact, the goal post won't move, you won't have to change your argument to justify your point. You said you were a doctor?? Dude, how do you manage to get into Medical School with argument and logic like this? Did you do the same to your patient when you don't know why he/she is sick??

I mean, I wasn't going to argue with you because it's just one drone, whether it hit the target or got intercepted really not a big deal, I am simply telling you what I interpret as a former Military Intelligence officer with Damage Assessment experience, believe it or not is up to you, but dude, your argument is getting more ridiculous as you go. What next? The explosion wasn' captured by the camera at all or the shot is upside down or what??


----------



## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> M302 are Iranian made rockets, copies of Chinese rockets, weighing 500kg. Intercepted by Iron Dome. Also intercepted Hezbollah and Hamas drones.
> In tests it intercepted cruise missiles.
> 
> You call UCAV a drone with RPG7s attached to it lmfao, first UAV usage was done by Israel in 1973.
> 
> First air to air usage of drones was done in 1990 in Iraq when MQ1s were firing stingers at enemies.
> 
> last one is just wrong


wonder what M302 has to do with Iran , our artillery rockets are fajr-3 and various type of fajr-5.
M-302 is Syria doing

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> wonder what M302 has to do with Iran , our artillery rockets are fajr-3 and various type of fajr-5.
> M-302 is Syria doing


Yes you are right.
Fajr rockets were also shot down.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585948626953842689

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585967971951853569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585931541813022720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585957686809501697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585843625396609027

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585928858783531008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585833778123272192

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585841704317247489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585950775489855490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585920677743587328


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> seems the CIA is very active in Ukraine.
> 
> Russia will see USSR Afghanistan war redux.



Doubt. Afghans have 3 advantages over Ukrainians: devotion to religion, bravery, high birth rate. Ukrainians lack these 3 factors.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585949955843182592


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585853059153829888
New package for Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585853059153829888
> New package for Ukraine



The Biden packages seem to be getting smaller and less frequent.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585968624698785794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585938578349199361


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585980165330554881

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## A.P. Richelieu

*What is the actual political system in Russia?*








Misha Firer


Brutalsky Son of Quora.




www.quora.com




The actual political system in Russia is stupidity. Sorry, a typo: ztupidity.

Consider this, on top of all the hardships and suffering sustained by the Russian citizens due to sanctions and Covid, government piled on them a burden of ridding Ukraine of non-existent Nazis, while invoking the whole world’s condemnation that it’s the Russians who are fascists.

Youthful mass celebration of a young country’s nationalist spirit was stolen by the government, sprinkled with occult Nazi symbols, ending up in extermination of civilians in its very backyard for the whole world to witness.

Putin is anti-Midas: whatever he touches turns into hurting his countrymen. Is that what makes him so popular that his ratings have been rising and rapidly approaching 103%?

Literally, any expression of joy Russians show publicly inevitably winds up hitting them like a freight train. No wonder they don’t smile and look grouchy all the time. It’s safer that way.

Yesterday, patriarch “Gunya” Kiril, a KGB agent, Putin’s lackey, who sold his soul, sorry this should read contraband cigarettes and took bribes and kickbacks for selling church land to businessmen to live in luxury, blessed Satan nuclear heads and AK-47 with holy water, proclaimed in War Cathedral that the Russian Orthodox Church will break the back of the world’s Nazism.

Really? With what ? Soviet tanks? Or nuclear heads that would annihilate human life on the planet?

“Radioactive ash,” as TV propagandist Dmitry Kisilev says gleefully in prime time.

How do these people get themselves out of bed every morning to face another day of such psychological brutality?






It’s not easy to be a Russian person.





Put on a brutalsky face , and wait for something good to happen.





When Russian soldiers return home from the brutal special military war, they won’t lay weapons aside but will rape, rob and mug their way through cities and towns.





What they saw and experienced in Ukraine is very different from what is being shown on federal tv channels. They’ve been killing fake Nazis. What will stop them from killing other Russian speaking strangers ?





In five weeks, victory in the denazification of Ukraine will be proclaimed and celebrated at Victory Day military parade with tanks, rocket launchers, missiles and whatever infantry with all four limbs left.

Preparations for a new special operation will be announced and the vicious cycle of “besieged fortress striking back” will carry on costing a million citizens in brain drain and thousands in garbage bags a year.

Such is the political system in Russia, of utter Ztupidity.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Shawnee

We will clip the wings of this air monster, said Zelensky in darkness, having his whole power grid shot down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## 925boy

1ndy said:


> Yes! definitely, this can change but not today, not tomorrow, not in a decade.


so how is this related to Shahed 136s performance in the Ukraine war? stop trolling and distracting from the topic at hand pls.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585983203621236736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585983954288525314


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585922596415377408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585974087033454593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585977634290339840

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## A.P. Richelieu

alimobin memon said:


> If afghans with same russian weapons can fight then russians can also fight.


We saw a good example of the fighting spirit of Afghans when they ran from the Taliban last year.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Shawnee

Yesterday: we hit 85 percent of Iranians drones.

Today in country black out: we will clip off the wings of this air beast. We need more AD.


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 27​Oct 27, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*George Barros, Riley Bailey, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan
October 27, 7:30 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian President Vladimir Putin continues to reject the idea of Ukrainian sovereignty in a way that is fundamentally incompatible with serious negotiations. *Putin continued to reject Ukrainian sovereignty during a speech at the Valdai Discussion Club on October 27. Putin stated that the “single real guarantee of Ukrainian sovereignty” can only be Russia, which “created” Ukraine.[1] Putin reiterated that it is a “historical fact” that Ukrainians and Russians are fundamentally “one people” that were wrongly separated into “different states.”[2] Putin stated on October 26 that Ukraine has “lost its sovereignty” and become a NATO vassal.[3]
Putin’s statements reject the legal fact that Ukraine is a fully sovereign state, that the Russian Federation recognized Ukraine’s sovereignty, and that the Ukrainian people exist as a distinct nation. Putin’s perpetuation of the narrative that Ukraine and Russia are a single people separated into different states by arbitrary historical circumstance indicates his continued objective to destroy the Ukrainian state and erase the notion of a Ukrainian people. He added during the question-and-answer period that “if some part of that single ethnicity at some moment decided that it had reached such a level as to consider itself a separate people, then one could only respond with respect.”[4] The many conditionals in this comment underscore Putin’s rejection of the idea that there is currently any independent Ukrainian national identity. These statements, along with many Russian actions, must cause serious reflection on the question of whether Russia’s war against Ukraine is a genocidal action since genocide is legally defined as “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.”[5]
*A senior Russian official threatened that Russia could target Western commercial satellites supporting Ukraine. *Russian Foreign Ministry Deputy Director of the Department for Non-Proliferation and Arms Control Konstantin Vorontsov told the United Nations that the United States and its allies were trying to use space to enforce Western dominance and that "quasi-civilian infrastructure may be a legitimate target for a retaliatory strike."[6] _Reuters_ reported that US National Security Council Spokesperson John Kirby stated that the United States will meet any attack on US infrastructure “with a response.”[7]* 
Key Takeaways * 

*Russian President Vladimir Putin continues to reject Ukrainian sovereignty in a way that is fundamentally incompatible with serious negotiations.*
*A senior Russian official threatened that Russia could target Western commercial satellites supporting Ukraine.*
*Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast and along the Kreminna-Lysychansk line.*
*Russian forces are continuing to make defensive preparations along the east bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast.*
*Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted limited ground assaults in Kherson Oblast.*
*Russian forces continued to conduct ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast.*
*The Russian military sent mobilization notices to foreign citizens working in Russia.*
*Yevgeny Prigozhin‘s Wagner Group may be further developing its air warfare capabilities and fielding more complex equipment on par with the conventional Russian military.*
*Russian and occupation administration officials began seizing residents’ cell phones in Russian-occupied territories to support law enforcement and operational security measures.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Eastern Kharkiv Oblast-Western Luhansk Oblast)*
Russian sources continued to claim that Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast on October 27. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and other Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces unsuccessfully attacked Russian positions in the direction of Mykolaivka and Orlianka, both just east of Kupyansk and about 30km northwest of Svatove.[8] Russian milbloggers circulated footage of Russian forces firing a TOS-1 thermobaric multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) at Ukrainian positions reportedly in the direction of the Svatove-Kreminna highway.[9] The TOS-1 is notably a military-district-level asset, which may indicate either that Russian forces are allocating higher-level artillery systems to this area due to an intent to prioritize operations in this area, or that Russian forces lack sufficient artillery systems or ammunition more appropriate for standard fire missions on the Svatove-Kreminna axis.
Russian sources also claimed that Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations along the Kreminna-Lysychansk line on October 27. The Russian MoD and other Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces launched an attack on Chervonopopivka, 6km northwest of Kreminna.[10] Russian milbloggers reported that elements of the 144th and 3rd Russian motor rifle divisions of the 20th Combined Arms Army repelled Ukrainian attacks toward Kreminna and claimed that the BARS-13 (Russian Combat Reserve of the Country) detachment in this area is concerned about future Ukrainian assaults on Kreminna from multiple directions.[11] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported fighting around Bilohorivka, indicating that Ukrainian offensive operations continue south of Kreminna as well.[12]



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Ukrainian military sources continued to state that Russian forces are conducting defensive operations along the eastern bank of the Dnipro River in anticipation of future Ukrainian advances. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on October 27 that Russian troops are fortifying equipment in positions on the east bank of the Dnipro and conducting active aerial reconnaissance.[13] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command noted that Ukrainian forces are continuing to hold their positions and actively threatening Russian troops with artillery fire, forcing Russian forces to conduct active defensive measures.[14]
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian troops conducted limited ground attacks in Kherson Oblast on October 27. The Russian MoD claimed that Russian troops repelled Ukrainian attacks northwest of Kherson City and in western Kherson Oblast.[15] A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian troops are pulling reserves to the Davydiv Brid area in western Kherson Oblast and along the current frontline north of the Beryslav-Nova Kakhovka area.[16]
Ukrainian and Russian sources continued to indicate on October 27 that Ukrainian forces are conducting an interdiction campaign to target Russian concentration areas and military assets in Kherson Oblast. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian strikes destroyed a Russian concentration area and ammunition depot around Beryslav.[17] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command also stated that Ukrainian airstrikes hit Russian air defense forces and equipment in the Beryslav Raion on October 26.[18] Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian troops launched four HIMARS missiles at Kherson City, all of which Russian air defense intercepted, but ISW has not observed independent confirmation of the strike or of air defense activating over Kherson City on October 27.[19] There is no open-source evidence that Russian forces have ever intercepted a HIMARS munition.



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to conduct ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on October 27. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults on Bakhmut, northeast of Bakhmut near Soledar (13km northeast of Bakhmut), and south of Bakhmut near Ivanhrad (4km south of Bakhmut) and Mayorsk.[20] A Russian miblogger claimed that Russian forces also conducted an assault northeast of Bakhmut near Bakhmutske (11km northeast of Bakhmut).[21] Russian sources reported that Russian forces currently control Zaitseve (8km southeast of Bakhmut), although ISW cannot independently verify Russian control of the settlement.[22] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground attacks southwest of Avdiivka near Krasnohorivka (23km southwest of Avdiivka) and Mariinka (28km southwest of Avdiivka).[23] A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces also conducted an assault near Novomykhailivka (37km southwest of Avdiivka).[24] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued to conduct routine indirect fire along the line of contact in Donetsk Oblast.[25] Social media sources reported that Ukrainian forces struck fuel tankers at a railway station in Shakhtarsk, Donetsk Oblast with HIMARS MLRS missiles.[26]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued to conduct routine air, missile, and artillery strikes west of Hulyaipole, and in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv oblasts on October 27.[27] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck Zaporizhzhia City, Nikopol, and Bereznehuvate.[28] Odesa Oblast spokesperson Serhiy Bratchuk reported that Russian forces conduct drone attacks with over two dozen Shahed-136 drones in Odesa, Mykolaiv, and Vinnytsia oblasts on the night of October 26.[29] Bratchuk reported that Ukrainian air defenses shot down 15 Shahed-136 drones in Odesa Oblast, three in Mykolaiv Oblast, and one in Vinnytsia Oblast.[30]
Ukrainian forces may have conducted a drone attack on a critical infrastructure facility in Russian-occupied Crimea on October 27. Russian-occupied Sevastopol governor Mikhail Razvozhaev claimed that likely Ukrainian actors conducted a drone attack against the Balaklava thermal power plant in Crimea on October 27.[31] A Russian source claimed that the drone attack caused one of the transformers at the plant to catch on fire.[32] This supposed drone strike has not been accompanied by widespread reporting nor by video conformation, which has characterized previous Ukrainian strikes on facilities in Russian-occupied Crimea.
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
The Russian military sent mobilization notices to foreign citizens working in Russia on October 25. The Russian military sent notices to approximately 26 Uzbek workers at a waste management plant in Oryol Oblast who are not legally subject to military mobilization since they are not Russian citizens.[33] The Embassy of Uzbekistan in Moscow issued a statement claiming that the mobilization summonses were due to a “technical error” and stated that the summonses were nullified after contact with the Russian military commissariat.[34] Uzbekistan is a member of the Russian-dominated Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), an international organization the Kremlin has used to regain suzerainty over former Soviet states.[35]
Yevgeny Prigozhin‘s Wagner Group may be further developing its air warfare capabilities and fielding more complex equipment on par with the conventional Russian military. A Russian military blogger reported that the Wagner Group is recruiting soldiers to form and or replenish the crews of the Pantsir-S1 air defense missile systems, the S-300 air defense system, helicopters and fixed-wing attack aircraft, and electronic warfare specialists.[36] The Wagner Group is not known for independently operating combat aircraft, but it could begin to do so as the Russian military grows increasingly reliant on Wagner forces. Russian sources and the _BBC_ confirmed the existence of at least one Wagner aviation detachment that flew Su-25 aircraft operating in eastern Ukraine in May 2022.[37] Wagner elements reportedly used a French light transport helicopter in operations in the Central African Republic in 2021.[38] A Russian military blogger reported that Wagner’s acquisition of combat aircraft indicates that the Wagner Group is “an example of a contract army, the likes of which the Russian Ministry of Defense has been striving towards all these years.”[39] This language is noteworthy, as it emphasizes the degree to which Wagner does appear to be emerging as a parallel military alongside the Russian Ministry of Defense.
Wagner Financier Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed a Ukrainian intelligence report that the Wagner Group is recruiting prisoners with HIV and Hepatitis C to fight in Ukraine on October 27. Prigozhin stated that there are no Russian legal restrictions against patients with Hepatitis C or HIV and stated, “I don’t see anything immoral if soldiers carrying hepatitis C and HIV kill other soldiers without knowing whether they were carriers of any viruses during their lifetime.”[40] The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate first reported that Wagner prisoner recruits suffer from HIV and Hepatitis C and that Russian doctors are refusing to assist a growing number of infected troops when they are wounded in combat on October 25.[41]
The Russian military’s lack of contact with Russian forces in Ukraine is degrading Russian morale and force generating efforts. A Russian milblogger reported that mass hysteria and negative coverage about Russian mobilized soldiers would not exist if Russian commanders clearly knew more about the status of their men in Ukraine.[42] The milblogger stated that he went through great trouble to contact a soldier fighting in Ukraine only to later learn this soldier was wounded and back in Moscow. This milblogger previously complained that Russian officials are abandoning Russian POWs in Ukraine and implored Russian authorities to do something to help Russian POWs on October 26.[43] 
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Russian and occupation administration officials began seizing residents’ cellular devices to support law enforcement crackdowns and operational security measures in Russian-occupied territories on October 27. Zaporizhia occupation deputy Vladimir Rogov stated on October 27 that occupation law enforcement officers in Russian-occupied Zaporizhia Oblast began selective checks of residents' cellphones to look for those who subscribe to Ukrainian social media channels perceived to be associated with the Ukrainian government.[44] Rogov stated that the recent martial law declaration allows for such checks under stipulations of military censorship.[45] Rogov also stated that residents violating the prohibition on subscription to “propaganda resources of the terrorist Kyiv regime” will receive formal warnings and then fines.[46] The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on October 27 that Russian occupation officials began to “massively” seize residents’ cell phones in Russian-occupied territories to look for subscriptions to Ukrainian media and social media channels.[47] Russian occupation officials likely intend to use the seizure of cellphones, whether in a temporary check or a longer seizure, to aid law enforcement measures against Ukrainian partisans and to prevent reporting on Russian military activities that has weakened operational security in the past. Russian and occupation administration officials may use the seizure to continue to identify residents who hold pro-Ukrainian sentiments.
Russian forces continued to seize and loot residents’ property on October 27. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on October 27 that Chechen elements are increasing checks and raids in Russian-occupied Zaporizhia Oblast to look for suspected military deserters but to also confiscate and loot residents’ property.[48] Russian forces will likely continue to loot and seize residents’ property as discipline and supply issues persist.
*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update.* 
[1] http://kremlin dot ru/events/president/news/69695
[2] https://www.interfax dot ru/amp/869872
[3] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[4] https://riaru/20221027/ukraintsy-1827302074.html
[5] https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1...
[6] https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-says-wests-commercial-satellites-co...
[7] https://www.reuters.com/world/white-house-vows-response-if-russia-attack...
[8] https://****/mod_russia/21231; https://****/rybar/40643
[9] https://****/rlz_the_kraken/53640; https://****/kommunist/12294
[10] https://****/rybar/40643; https://****/mod_russia/21231; https://****/epoddubny/13381
[11] https://****/wargonzo/8914; https://****/vysokygovorit/9804
[12] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0gjvEofGJouPwRZMeg3Q... https://****/luhanskaVTSA/6529; https://****/rybar/40643
[13] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0WpVPNZvhPfTFiakQ6bU...
[14]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1241270390061898




;




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1308471839916348




[15] https://****/mod_russia/21231
[16] https://****/rybar/40647;
[17] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0gjvEofGJouPwRZMeg3Q...
[18]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1308471839916348




[19] https://****/kommunist/12290; https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/634; https://****/sashakots/36847
[20] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0gjvEofGJouPwRZMeg3Q...
[21] https://****/wargonzo/8908
[22] https://****/boris_rozhin/68525 ; https://****/kommunist/12304 ; https://****/milchronicles/1251
[23] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0gjvEofGJouPwRZMeg3Q...
[24] https://****/wargonzo/8908 
[25] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0WpVPNZvhPfTFiakQ6bU...
[26]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585580044482650114 ;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585584031768485888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585522952526766085 ; https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1585535229271457794
[27] ttps://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0WpVPNZvhPfTFiakQ6bU5VGnBaf2... ; https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1241270390061898 ; https://****/mykolaivskaODA/3185 ; https://****/zoda_gov_ua/14251 ; https://****/zoda_gov_ua/14228 ;
[28] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0gjvEofGJouPwRZMeg3Q... ;https://****/zoda_gov_ua/14228 ; https://****/mykolaivskaODA/3185
[29] https://****/Bratchuk_Sergey/21474
[30] https://****/Bratchuk_Sergey/21474
[31] https://****/razvozhaev/1315
[32] https://****/hueviyherson/27978 
[33] https://centralasia dot media/news:1813351;; https://oreltimes dot ru/news/svo/v-orlovskoj-oblasti-poluchivshie-povestki-o-mobilizacii-uzbeki-oboshlis-bez-pomoshhi-svoego-prezidenta/; https://asiaplustj dot info/ru/news/centralasia/20221027/rossiiskii-voenkomat-popitalsya-mobilizovat-grazhdan-uzbekistana; https://fergana dot agency/news/128140/
[34] http://uzembassy dot ru/news/20972
[35] https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Putin%27s%20Offset%...
[36] https://vk dot com/milinfolive?w=wall-123538639_3154937
[37] https://****/grey_zone/14186; https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-61559430
[38] https://www.scramble dot nl/military-news/gazelle-crash-in-central-african-republic
[39] https://vk dot com/milinfolive?w=wall-123538639_3154937
[40] https://****/Prigozhin_hat/1886
[41] https://gur.gov dot ua/content/vahnerivtsi-masovo-rekrutuiut-viazniv-khvorykh-na-vil-ta-hepatyt.html
[42] https://****/notes_veterans/6256
[43] https://****/notes_veterans/6243; https://****/notes_veterans/6241; https://****/notes_veterans/6240
[44] https://****/vrogov/5813
[45] https://****/vrogov/5813
[46] https://****/vrogov/5813
[47] https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/10/27/rosiyany-pochaly-vyluchaty-telefony-meshkancziv-tot-dlya-podalshoyi-perevirky/
[48] https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/10/27/na-okupovanyh-rajonah-zaporizkoyi-oblasti-kadyrovczi-posylyly-obshuky/

Tags​Ukraine Project
File Attachments: 



Donetsk Battle Map Draft October 27,2022.png



Kherson-Mykolaiv Battle Map Draft October 27,2022.png



Kharkiv Battle Map Draft October 27,2022.png



DraftUkraineCOTOctober27,2022.png

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585992815007346689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585990083773353985


A.P. Richelieu said:


> We saw a good example of the fighting spirit of Afghans when they ran from the Taliban last year.



Religion is strong. They joined Taliban.


----------



## Viet

A.P. Richelieu said:


> *What is the actual political system in Russia?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Misha Firer
> 
> 
> Brutalsky Son of Quora.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.quora.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The actual political system in Russia is stupidity. Sorry, a typo: ztupidity.
> 
> Consider this, on top of all the hardships and suffering sustained by the Russian citizens due to sanctions and Covid, government piled on them a burden of ridding Ukraine of non-existent Nazis, while invoking the whole world’s condemnation that it’s the Russians who are fascists.
> 
> Youthful mass celebration of a young country’s nationalist spirit was stolen by the government, sprinkled with occult Nazi symbols, ending up in extermination of civilians in its very backyard for the whole world to witness.
> 
> Putin is anti-Midas: whatever he touches turns into hurting his countrymen. Is that what makes him so popular that his ratings have been rising and rapidly approaching 103%?
> 
> Literally, any expression of joy Russians show publicly inevitably winds up hitting them like a freight train. No wonder they don’t smile and look grouchy all the time. It’s safer that way.
> 
> Yesterday, patriarch “Gunya” Kiril, a KGB agent, Putin’s lackey, who sold his soul, sorry this should read contraband cigarettes and took bribes and kickbacks for selling church land to businessmen to live in luxury, blessed Satan nuclear heads and AK-47 with holy water, proclaimed in War Cathedral that the Russian Orthodox Church will break the back of the world’s Nazism.
> 
> Really? With what ? Soviet tanks? Or nuclear heads that would annihilate human life on the planet?
> 
> “Radioactive ash,” as TV propagandist Dmitry Kisilev says gleefully in prime time.
> 
> How do these people get themselves out of bed every morning to face another day of such psychological brutality?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not easy to be a Russian person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Put on a brutalsky face , and wait for something good to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Russian soldiers return home from the brutal special military war, they won’t lay weapons aside but will rape, rob and mug their way through cities and towns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What they saw and experienced in Ukraine is very different from what is being shown on federal tv channels. They’ve been killing fake Nazis. What will stop them from killing other Russian speaking strangers ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In five weeks, victory in the denazification of Ukraine will be proclaimed and celebrated at Victory Day military parade with tanks, rocket launchers, missiles and whatever infantry with all four limbs left.
> 
> Preparations for a new special operation will be announced and the vicious cycle of “besieged fortress striking back” will carry on costing a million citizens in brain drain and thousands in garbage bags a year.
> 
> Such is the political system in Russia, of utter Ztupidity.


Putin is no different to Stalin, he rules Russia with iron fist. Every opponent, every resistance is futile. People can expect millions of deaths either by famine, execution, deportation or simply disappear in Siberia gulags.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## 925boy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The Biden packages seem to be getting smaller and less frequent.


America is broke, what else is the truth here?


----------



## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> Lmfao, if merely mounting unguided munitions on a drone is making it a UCAV, then the first UCAV would TDN-1 from 1942, that could drop a 1000lb bomb.
> 
> Also, the RPG-7s you mounted on that drone were basically useless


never fielded and used in war


Beny Karachun said:


> Bruh, TDN-1 is from 1942, falls under the definition of a drone, and dropped a bomb, so garbage Iranian drone strapped with rockets wasn't even the first UCAV, not by a long shot.


never fielded and used in war


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## Viet

Ah cool

Military verhicles are seen before Russia confederation council.

Putin seems to plan something.

Probably he wants to dissolve the parliament and declare martial law over Russia.

The next stage on escalation ladder 








"Russland wird anscheinend in Kriegssituation versetzt"


In der Nacht fahren vor dem Gebäude des Föderationsrats in Moskau Militärfahrzeuge vor. Offiziell heißt es, es handle sich um eine Übung. Für ntv-Reporter Rainer Munz passt das zu dem Eindruck, der Kreml wolle eine Kriegsstimmung im eigenen Land unter dem Motto "wir gegen den Westen" herstellen.




www.n-tv.de


----------



## JackTheRipper

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/yf7lbi


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> An UCAV is a combat drone.
> Show proof that the Iranian ”UCAV” actually hit anything.
> 
> ”The modern military drone as known today was the brainchild of John Stuart Foster Jr., a nuclear physicist and former head of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (then called the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory).[8] In 1971, Foster was a model airplane hobbyist and had the idea this hobby could be applied to building weapons.[8] He drew up plans and by 1973 DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) built two prototypes called "Prairie" and "Calera". They were powered by a modified lawn-mower engine and could stay aloft for two hours while carrying a 28-pound (13 kg) load.”
> 
> Don’t bother answer, as You are on ignore from now on.


those were RPG-7 with fragmentation warhead , we didn't need to hit anything , we fired those at barracks and areas there were chance of personnel gathering , and let the fragmentation do the work . the drone was a line of sight controlled drone , and usually several operator penetrated behind enemy lines and handed the control of the drone to each other and the last one approximated where the rocket will hit and fired it when he think it land near enemy and let the fragmentation warhead do the damage .


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> irst you say "*your mistake is that because its above water line you think its above the ground"*
> 
> Then I explained that water collect at the lowest spot on the ground, which is simple physics. Which mean if it is above waterline, then it is above ground."


let make it simpler , you think because its above water line its in sky , no its on top of the building which usually is above waterline ,
guess the meaning become more clear,


jhungary said:


> Then you say "*drone hit top of the building , not first floor , and the explosion was at top of the buildings*."
> 
> First, that's completely 180 degree turn from your previous comment (which is you thought it is at ground level, now you think it hit the building)


exactly what i said in first post
the drone hit top of the building , top of the building is above waterline , at night when everywhere is dark you don't see top of the buildings , but if you look at the video when they open fire you see a shadow of it and can have an estimation of where it is .


jhungary said:


> Then I explained that since that drone don't have optics and comm module, it most definitely will have an impact fuse, so when that drone hit the building, it will not have a second det like you claim before (another contradiction to what you have said)


not the second detonation , first explosion then what you see as second detonation , is burning og fuel and explosion of any explosives in the building itself for example lng capsules , gas lines , if there is explosive there .
if the drine hit with shtrapnel it fall , it wont explode , for that you need to hit it with a missile so the detonation of the warhead produce explossive waves and those explosion waves detonate the warhead in the drones.


jhungary said:


> And then I further explained that if that drone hits its target, the debris will carry the explosion forward (or whereever the drone goes) and the fireball will not be perfect ball shape, it will be leading toward the motion of travel.


no if it dive nearly vertically and also , because the camera become blind you don't see how the explosion derbies moved 


jhungary said:


> lol, camera won't be blinded by the flash, that's what flash do because the explosion will last a lot longer than the flash, and what is "If the drone dive, it goes no where?" Dude, even if it dive 90 degree straight down, the momentum will carry the drone forward to heavy side up. It's like if you drop something that have serious weight on the floor, once it hit the floor, it will NOT stay at where it first hit the ground, it will simply bounce off (the heavier the object the less the distance it bounce off to).


your argument is only correct if the dive is v1 style dive and let the engine turn off and the missile fall somewhere , not a controlled dive like shahed-136


jhungary said:


> lol, camera won't be blinded by the flash


it will be , that's a simple camera , not a fast camera designed for these scenario , in nights the diaphragm is wide open , a bright light , will blind it and it take time foe camera to adjust , if it have that capability , these cameras usually don't have it


jhungary said:


> Dude, you are moving your own argument trying to suit the situation, which is a sign you are losing said argument because if that is a fact, the goal post won't move, you won't have to change your argument to justify your point. You said you were a doctor?? Dude, how do you manage to get into Medical School with argument and logic like this? Did you do the same to your patient when you don't know why he/she is sick??


my argument never changed , the drone hit top of the building and made a bright flash that made the camera blind and then when camera could see again , you see the building on fire



Beny Karachun said:


> Yes you are right.
> Fajr rockets were also shot down.


probably yes , they are designed to be fired in hundreds not at most 3-5 like what palestinian do


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586029514844356609

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586019498909630464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586021386715209737

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> mean, I wasn't going to argue with you because it's just one drone, whether it hit the target or got intercepted really not a big deal, I am simply telling you what I interpret as a former Military Intelligence officer with Damage Assessment experience, believe it or not is up to you, but dude, your argument is getting more ridiculous as you go. What next? The explosion wasn' captured by the camera at all or the shot is upside down or what??


honestly , there is no point in that discussion , that drone hit top of the building , if you put photo of such drone and said it was intercepted there wa no argument from me 
this is interception (let not go into the fact its in front of green screen and the drone moved from another place there )





the video was actually hitting target



A.P. Richelieu said:


> We saw a good example of the fighting spirit of Afghans when they ran from the Taliban last year.


two decades of being in usa camps .do that , the ones who escape were not the ones fighting USA and Nato


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586035150013419520

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## Hack-Hook

JackTheRipper said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/yf7lbi


certainly the missile hit several hundred meter away , the question is what was hit that they use two missile for it


Viet said:


> Putin is no different to Stalin, he rules Russia with iron fist. Every opponent, every resistance is futile. People can expect millions of deaths either by famine, execution, deportation or simply disappear in Siberia gulags.


lol , no he is no where like Stalin , if he was like Stalin , he attacked both Ukraine and Finland and probably Uzbekistan with at least 3 million soldier .
and he would have sent anybody who was against the war to front-line , with their parents and children and spouse and probably their pets and grand parents .


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586020392044761089

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586039385845534720


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586033040501137409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586037640515969025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586039872783282176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586035974148345861

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585989085663199232

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1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586037112020893697


----------



## Shawnee




----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586046611943485441

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585753662458298368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585924061070168064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585861778491133952
The B61-12, represents one of the most important nuclear munitions that NATO relies on strongly for "tactical" nuclear strikes (of course in addition to the tactical nuclear cruise air and sea),

This version is the latest and most recent of its class (B61-family), the infographic below gives a good general idea about the B61-12 bomb, the programming of the detonation force (multi-forces and diversity in effect according to the nature of the target) and its programming method, guidance methods, approved air platforms, number of bombs The approximate (until the year 2020), its spread / distribution in NATO countries in Europe (I think the number has been increased recently due to the increase in tension)... Finally, the programming method and the device for programming the bomb..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586046611943485441



Russia builds 100 Msta-SM2 artillery a year.


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> honestly , there is no point in that discussion , that drone hit top of the building , if you put photo of such drone and said it was intercepted there wa no argument from me
> this is interception (let not go into the fact its in front of green screen and the drone moved from another place there )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the video was actually hitting target
> 
> 
> two decades of being in usa camps .do that , the ones who escape were not the ones fighting USA and Nato


Whatever you say, I said my piece, and your story is the one that keep changing. 

I mean, if you believe in your story, that's you. I said, as an intelligence expert. That particular strike was likely to be intercepted. Because the explosion is above ground and there are no second det when the explosion occur, it's that simple. 

And yes, it's pointless to keep arguing. Because you will try to find some way to justify your point, even if that argument goes completely opposite to what your previous argument claim. And I am not about to argue 90 different way on the same incident whether or not they are at the same side of the story, I don't just toss speculation out there and hope it hit something.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585985080153063424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585984826451976192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585981070977089536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586013622232576000

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## Shawnee

jhungary said:


> Whatever you say, I said my piece, and your story is the one that keep changing.
> 
> I mean, if you believe in your story, that's you. I said, as an intelligence expert. That particular strike was likely to be intercepted. Because the explosion is above ground and there are no second det when the explosion occur, it's that simple.
> 
> And yes, it's pointless to keep arguing. Because you will try to find some way to justify your point, even if that argument goes completely opposite to what your previous argument claim. And I am not about to argue 90 different way on the same incident whether or not they are at the same side of the story, I don't just toss speculation out there and hope it hit something.



Look at the big picture. Defense mechanism will not save anyone.

I think it is clear what the correct answer is:
- Choice A: Shahed performance is excellent.
- Choice B: AD performance is excellent

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585696020599836672



So A1 Excalibur came, old ones were regular M982.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586055860371214336

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## Paul2

Something is definitely brewing in the Tokmak direction.

I can't believe Russians don't see the amount of their troops there being dangerously low.

AUF will need a major troop count to make a deep enough dent in Russian controlled area just because of size of the area, but still.


----------



## jhungary

Shawnee said:


> Look at the big picture. Defense mechanism will not save anyone.
> 
> I think it is clear what the correct answer is:
> - Choice A: Shahed performance is excellent.
> - Choice B: AD performance is excellent


look at it this way.

If Shahed drone only used to hit civilian infrastructure, then you don't even need to intercept it. Because it does nothing to the military situation in Ukraine. You want a weapon to win a war, not a weapon to hit civilian infrastructure. Since the introduction of this drone, nothing has change for the Russian on the battlefront. sure, you can damage some building, but then what that do to frontline troop. Infact, Ukraine just cut off the main supply line to Kreminna just today, after taking around 15 settlement northeast of Kherson. if Shahed Drone are any "Wonder" weapon, it would have, and should have, turning the ties for the Russian right now, what it has been? It's almost 2 months.

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## The SC

*The Russians are pushing everywhere..*






Ukraine War Map | Massive Battle Near Kremmina | Zelensky says Russian Kherson Retreat is a TRAP​

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> look at it this way.
> 
> If Shahed drone only used to hit civilian infrastructure, then you don't even need to intercept it. Because it does nothing to the military situation in Ukraine. You want a weapon to win a war, not a weapon to hit civilian infrastructure. Since the introduction of this drone, nothing has change for the Russian on the battlefront. sure, you can damage some building, but then what that do to frontline troop. Infact, Ukraine just cut off the main supply line to Kreminna just today, after taking around 15 settlement northeast of Kherson. if Shahed Drone are any "Wonder" weapon, it would have, and should have, turning the ties for the Russian right now, what it has been? It's almost 2 months.



Cutting off electricity is devastating. You cannot refine oil without electricity. No fuel means tanks cannot move.

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## Shawnee

jhungary said:


> look at it this way.
> 
> If Shahed drone only used to hit civilian infrastructure, then you don't even need to intercept it. Because it does nothing to the military situation in Ukraine. You want a weapon to win a war, not a weapon to hit civilian infrastructure. Since the introduction of this drone, nothing has change for the Russian on the battlefront. sure, you can damage some building, but then what that do to frontline troop. Infact, Ukraine just cut off the main supply line to Kreminna just today, after taking around 15 settlement northeast of Kherson. if Shahed Drone are any "Wonder" weapon, it would have, and should have, turning the ties for the Russian right now, what it has been? It's almost 2 months.



Shutting down the whole power grid of a country and zeroing morale is nothing to you?
US did that to Iraq too.

The propaganda page is significantly toward Russians due to these drones as well.

Give it more time to see its ground effect if Russia keeps buying and destroying infrastructures.

Thanks to Shahed, Russia does not need to use tactical nukes now.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586042685793501184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586066556790145024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586046614480617472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586055803223482368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586055863781163008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586051917775441922


----------



## jhungary

Shawnee said:


> Shutting down the whole power grid of a country and zeroing morale is nothing to you?
> US did that to Iraq too.
> 
> The propaganda page is significantly toward Russians due to these drones as well.
> 
> Give it more time to see its ground effect if Russia keeps buying and destroying infrastructures.
> 
> Thanks to Shahed, Russia does not need to use tactical nukes now.


Shutting down the Powergrid "*PERMENANTLY*" may have work, otherwise it's more or less inconvenience than actual need. And do you even think the Military of Ukraine was hooked up on the same Powergrid? LOL, maybe in Iran they did, I have been to Ukraine in April, I can tell you that they don't. Actually, I have been to many Military installation, US, UK, Germany, even Iraq, they have a different grid than Civilian, and most military are all-day all-weather force anyway, which mean even if the entire Powergrid system was down, it does not hamper the force ability to conduct operation. Which mean shutting down the civilian grid for 3 days does not do anything for the military, all you did is to make the poor soul in Kyiv or Lviv can't download the latest Netflix episode from the internet.

And dude, Ukraine is at war, a war that they didn't ask for, do you think bombing them will zap their morale?? If so they would have already given up the fight already, you say it like Russia did not target civilian infrastructure before September. What make them fight is to protect their homeland, and what Russia is doing is to try and destroy it, in fact, what Russia is doing is fanning the hate in Ukraine, more Ukrainian join the fight, they just reported that they have recruited twice as many as new recruit than previous 6 months and they aren't short of manpower, all thanks to this. And It didn't work on the Londoner back in WW2, what make you think it work in Ukraine now?

Again, you want to win a war, that can only be done by killing your enemy fighting men, not killing civilian, if you don't understand that principal of war and think it would have made a different, then all I can say is you are extremely naive. You want to know how to zap Ukrainian morale? Look at what the Ukrainian done to the Russian. Battlefield loses zap both strength and morale of the enemy force, you don't demoralise your enemy by hitting their civilian, you do that by denying their attack and counter-attacking them, you destroy their tempo, then morale will follow, that's why Russian force morale is rock bottom now, how many Russian civilian has been killed by the Ukrainian? How many Russian City got plunged into darkness by Ukrainian missile strike??. That's warfighting 101.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586051951178919938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586053391394172928


jhungary said:


> And dude, Ukraine is at war, a war that they didn't ask for



If Ukrainians didn't want war, they would have chosen election rather than riot in 2013.


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## jhungary

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Cutting off electricity is devastating. You cannot refine oil without electricity. No fuel means tanks cannot move.









Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586051951178919938
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586053391394172928
> 
> 
> If Ukrainians didn't want war, they would have chosen election rather than riot in 2013.


Please, save yourself some time, do not ever quote me again. I don't speak Idiots.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> never fielded and used in war
> 
> never fielded and used in war


Seems someone that is desperate to find a niche where Iran is the leader.
We will grant you that Iran was the first to mount a useless RPG on a drone.
Reminds me of a visit to Tokyo.
Are You guys aware that they have the worlds tallest Tokyo Tower?



Hack-Hook said:


> those were RPG-7 with fragmentation warhead , we didn't need to hit anything , we fired those at barracks and areas there were chance of personnel gathering , and let the fragmentation do the work . the drone was a line of sight controlled drone , and usually several operator penetrated behind enemy lines and handed the control of the drone to each other and the last one approximated where the rocket will hit and fired it when he think it land near enemy and let the fragmentation warhead do the damage .


That is just hearsay, and no proof.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586076028392411136

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Whatever you say, I said my piece, and your story is the one that keep changing.
> 
> I mean, if you believe in your story, that's you. I said, as an intelligence expert. That particular strike was likely to be intercepted. Because the explosion is above ground and there are no second det when the explosion occur, it's that simple.
> 
> And yes, it's pointless to keep arguing. Because you will try to find some way to justify your point, even if that argument goes completely opposite to what your previous argument claim. And I am not about to argue 90 different way on the same incident whether or not they are at the same side of the story, I don't just toss speculation out there and hope it hit something.


my last post on the matter its how fast things fall from the sky . go see if what you call interception was like this

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586047344809676800


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Seems someone that is desperate to find a niche where Iran is the leader.
> We will grant you that Iran was the first to mount a useless RPG on a drone.
> Reminds me of a visit to Tokyo.
> Are You guys aware that they have the worlds tallest Tokyo Tower?
> 
> 
> That is just hearsay, and no proof.


thats how we operated armed Mohajer-1 . it was controlled by handheld radio in line of sight .
and now UCAV become niche ? let tell you about another Nieche , that is mechanized artillery we invented 1700s

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> my last post on the matter its how fast things fall from the sky . go see if what you call interception was like this
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586047344809676800
> 
> thats how we operated armed Mohajer-1 . it was controlled by handheld radio in line of sight .


Again, I am not interest in your theory anymore, I already said my piece, and it ain't for you, I don't care if you believe that drone hit the building. I am saying it's not, but hey, it's not like I am any kind of expert here, I just seen war and fought in some.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Shutting down the Powergrid "*PERMENANTLY*" may have work, otherwise it's more or less inconvenience than actual need. And do you even think the Military of Ukraine was hooked up on the same Powergrid? LOL, maybe in Iran they did, I have been to Ukraine in April, I can tell you that they don't. Actually, I have been to many Military installation, US, UK, Germany, even Iraq, they have a different grid than Civilian, and most military are all-day all-weather force anyway, which mean even if the entire Powergrid system was down, it does not hamper the force ability to conduct operation. Which mean shutting down the civilian grid for 3 days does not do anything for the military, all you did is to make the poor soul in Kyiv or Lviv can't download the latest Netflix episode from the internet.


the industry that support that millitary is hooked to the same civilian grid and disruption in those industries in long term show itself on battlefield

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> the industry that support that millitary is hooked to the same civilian grid and disruption in those industries in long term show itself on battlefield


What industry? Oil, Ammunition, Food, Equipment, Weapon even winter clothing are all coming from the West. Unless you think Ukraine still uses mostly Soviet Weapon to fight this war or Ukraine are producing 155mm shell, HIMARS rocket, 5.56mm bullet, then there is nothing in Ukraine is supporting this war right now.

You damage the grid to Hamburg, Salisbury Plain or Atlanta, it would do more to inhibit Ukrainian war effort than Powerstation in Lviv....

Ukraine stop being self sufficient in this war since maybe month 2 (April) when they expanded most of their old Soviet Weapon munition. Most munition they have in those weapon is strangely captured from the Russian form when they leave behind in Kyiv, Kharkiv and Kherson.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585881771882811398

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586081110311993344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586082484223369216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586085845886443522


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> What industry? Oil, Ammunition, Food, Equipment, Weapon even winter clothing are all coming from the West. Unless you think Ukraine still uses mostly Soviet Weapon to fight this war or Ukraine are producing 155mm shell, HIMARS rocket, 5.56mm bullet, then there is nothing in Ukraine is supporting this war right now.
> 
> You damage the grid to Hamburg, Salisbury Plain or Atlanta, it would do more to inhibit Ukrainian war effort than Powerstation in Lviv....


do the repair coming from west , do all the ammunition come from west . you are talking about a country that was the workhorse behind USSR industry .


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> do the repair coming from west , do all the ammunition come from west . you are talking about a country that was the workhorse behind USSR industry .


Do you think Ukraine has the ability to service Caeser and HIMARS? LOL. They can't even fix the Javelin launcher and CLU and has to sent it back to Poland for the American and British to fix it. Otherwise why would you think HIMARS and Western weapon most concentrated in Kherson. There aren't that many HIMARS strike in the East compare with Kherson.

ALL the munition of western weapon come from the west (Otherwise who do you think make them? The Ukrainian somehow able to set up war production in Ukraine after the war??) and all the ex-Soviet weapon (like 2S3 or BM-21 or BM-27) strangely come from Captured Russian stock when they retreated from Kyiv, Kherson and Kharkiv. Ukraine has no weapon manufacture and maintenance capability like since day 4 when they were targeted by the Russian.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Do you think Ukraine has the ability to service Caeser and HIMARS? LOL. They can't even fix the Javelin launcher and CLU and has to sent it back to Poland for the American and British to fix it. Otherwise why would you think HIMARS and Western weapon most concentrated in Kherson. There aren't that many HIMARS strike in the East compare with Kherson.
> 
> ALL the munition of western weapon come from the west (Otherwise who do you think make them? The Ukrainian somehow able to set up war production in Ukraine after the war??) and all the ex-Soviet weapon (like 2S3 or BM-21 or BM-27) strangely come from Captured Russian stock when they retreated from Kyiv, Kherson and Kharkiv. Ukraine has no weapon manufacture and maintenance capability like since day 4 when they were targeted by the Russian.


and last time strangely russia claimed target facility that produced fuel for Ukrainian weapons


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> and last time strangely russia claimed target facility that produced fuel for Ukrainian weapons


What Ukrainian Weapon??

Name me one Ukrainian made weapon being used in this war?? Beside small arms.

And lol, do you not think if the west can supply Ukraine with that much weaponry, they can't supply them with fuel to operate those equipment with?? Oh, I am just sending you those tanks, IFV and Self Propelled Artillery, you need to get your own fuel......

I am not sure it will work if you put Ukrainian fuel in the truck tank of the HIMARS.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586086182374739968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586086537195769856


jhungary said:


> What Ukrainian Weapon??
> 
> Name me one Ukrainian made weapon being used in this war?? Beside small arms.



Stugna-P anti tank missiles. BTR-4 light tanks.

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## jhungary

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Stugna-P anti tank missiles. BTR-4 light tanks.


You don't need fuel for Stugna-P, it's not a rocket, by the way, that's Belarussian Missile, it's based on Skif. Not Ukrainian.

BTR-4 is not a light tank, it's a IFV


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> What Ukrainian Weapon??
> 
> Name me one Ukrainian made weapon being used in this war?? Beside small arms.
> 
> And lol, do you not think if the west can supply Ukraine with that much weaponry, they can't supply them with fuel to operate those equipment with?? Oh, I am just sending you those tanks, IFV and Self Propelled Artillery, you need to get your own fuel......
> 
> I am not sure it will work if you put Ukrainian fuel in the truck tank of the HIMARS.


some anti-ship missiles ?
do you think the remaining Ukrainian air-force work without maintenance .what missile they use?
what about those Buks and S-300 they have , what about their tanks ?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> You don't need fuel for Stugna-P, it's not a rocket, by the way, that's Belarussian Missile, it's based on Skif. Not Ukrainian.
> 
> BTR-4 is not a light tank, it's a IFV



You need at least a pickup truck to move Stugna-P around. I'm only 38 and I tried walking outside for 2 hours and it's a no go. Your legs would break and your feet would break if you tried walking around carrying a Stugna-P. It just won't work.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> some anti-ship missiles ?
> do you think the remaining Ukrainian air-force work without maintenance .what missile they use?
> what about those Buks and S-300 they have , what about their tanks ?


Do you think Air Force repair depot hooked up on civilian grid?

You are talking about industry supporting the military, not the military itself, industry don't go fix Ukrainian SU-27 themselves, they produce parts that the mechanic used to fix the Su-27. And those parts CAN and DID come from the west, namely Bulgaria and Poland with their used Mig

You are talking about fuel for Buks and S-300, again, do you think country like Greece (which operate S-300) cannot supply soviet grade fuel to operate those weapon system?? You say that like a few fuel truck a day into Ukraine is so hard it can never be done....



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> You need at least a pickup truck to move Stugna-P around. I'm only 38 and I tried walking outside for 2 hours and it's a no go. Your legs would break and your feet would break if you tried walking around carrying a Stugna-P. It just won't work.


Are you for real?

A tank for pickup truck generally last 700 (From the oldest of the old truck that eat fuel like crazy)-1500km, if you fuel it in Poland, you can travel to and from the other end of Ukraine with fuel to spare. Not to mention it's not hard at all to have fuel truck come from Poland or Romania into Ukraine. It's not like pickup truck in Ukraine can only use fuel produced by Ukraine........

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You are talking about industry supporting the military, not the military itself, industry don't go fix Ukrainian SU-27 themselves, they produce parts that the mechanic used to fix the Su-27. And those parts CAN and DID come from the west, namely Bulgaria and Poland with their used Mig
> 
> You are talking about fuel for Buks and S-300, again, do you think country like Greece (which operate S-300) cannot supply soviet grade fuel to operate those weapon system?? You say that like a few fuel truck a day into Ukraine is so hard it can never be done....


you think Ukraine military is completely based on Europe donation . well you are wrong on that 
did Poland or Bulgaria had su-27 , you think how much spare they had in their inventory ?
how much Greece helped Ukraine ? what was their help exactly?


----------



## Vergennes

Last tiktok for those kadyrovites



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586069568250073088




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586077545547837440

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586098655962230784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586104659030069248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586113252806778885

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> never fielded and used in war
> 
> never fielded and used in war


So? Does that make it not the first UCAV?

Does that make it less innovative? If a UCAV isn't used in a war it isn't innovative, but when Iran strapped some RPG rounds on a drone 40 years later and used it in a war to no effect is innovative?

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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> You need at least a pickup truck to move Stugna-P around. I'm only 38 and I tried walking outside for 2 hours and it's a no go. Your legs would break and your feet would break if you tried walking around carrying a Stugna-P. It just won't work.


Lol, in the military you often walk with 50kg for tens of kilometers and even more than that in operation. Missile systems are carried dissaseembled, a man usually carries the missiles (often called here the suicide bomber role/death role, lol), another guy carries the tripod, third guy carries the tube, optics and computer.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586095666719252480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586095726417018880

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## dbc

jhungary said:


> Shutting down the Powergrid "*PERMENANTLY*" may have work, otherwise it's more or less inconvenience than actual need. And do you even think the Military of Ukraine was hooked up on the same Powergrid? LOL, maybe in Iran they did, I have been to Ukraine in April, I can tell you that they don't. Actually, I have been to many Military installation, US, UK, Germany, even Iraq, they have a different grid than Civilian, and most military are all-day all-weather force anyway, which mean even if the entire Powergrid system was down, it does not hamper the force ability to conduct operation. Which mean shutting down the civilian grid for 3 days does not do anything for the military, all you did is to make the poor soul in Kyiv or Lviv can't download the latest Netflix episode from the internet.
> 
> And dude, Ukraine is at war, a war that they didn't ask for, do you think bombing them will zap their morale?? If so they would have already given up the fight already, you say it like Russia did not target civilian infrastructure before September. What make them fight is to protect their homeland, and what Russia is doing is to try and destroy it, in fact, what Russia is doing is fanning the hate in Ukraine, more Ukrainian join the fight, they just reported that they have recruited twice as many as new recruit than previous 6 months and they aren't short of manpower, all thanks to this. And It didn't work on the Londoner back in WW2, what make you think it work in Ukraine now?
> 
> Again, you want to win a war, that can only be done by killing your enemy fighting men, not killing civilian, if you don't understand that principal of war and think it would have made a different, then all I can say is you are extremely naive. You want to know how to zap Ukrainian morale? Look at what the Ukrainian done to the Russian. Battlefield loses zap both strength and morale of the enemy force, you don't demoralise your enemy by hitting their civilian, you do that by denying their attack and counter-attacking them, you destroy their tempo, then morale will follow, that's why Russian force morale is rock bottom now, how many Russian civilian has been killed by the Ukrainian? How many Russian City got plunged into darkness by Ukrainian missile strike??. That's warfighting 101.


please don't waste your time on flying tuk tuk fanbois.

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## nahtanbob

An officer helping enact Putin's mobilization is the latest in a string of unexplained deaths among high-ranking Russians


Roman Malyk was responsible for enlistment in two districts in Russias extreme east. He was found dead on Friday, local officials said.




www.businessinsider.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586073945438007296


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586128335133970432


----------



## aviator_fan

Shawnee said:


> If you disliked Shahed 135, you are going to hate Arash and Fateh series
> 
> As I always say, more damage is done by Shahed drone outside of Ukraine. So many butts on fire.


I can guarantee you no arab or muslim butts on fire. All there is disdain for the Iranians that they can't do anything but get Ghazans killed but now they all pro-Iranian fans (who are actually not necessarily pro-Iranian, they just happen to be anti-west) are so happy that Iran has some temporarily in the news for the first time with any significance

Iran is as useless as a military power as it was in Syria as it is on a daily basis in Ghaza. It loses its commander and it attacks a base where the biggest casualty is shell shock. Wow, impressive innovation.



jhungary said:


> Dude, com'on....Now you are moving the goal post once again....
> 
> First you say "*your mistake is that because its above water line you think its above the ground"*
> 
> Then I explained that water collect at the lowest spot on the ground, which is simple physics. Which mean if it is above waterline, then it is above ground."
> 
> Then you say "*drone hit top of the building , not first floor , and the explosion was at top of the buildings*."
> 
> First, that's completely 180 degree turn from your previous comment (which is you thought it is at ground level, now you think it hit the building)
> 
> Then I explained that since that drone don't have optics and comm module, it most definitely will have an impact fuse, so when that drone hit the building, it will not have a second det like you claim before (another contradiction to what you have said)
> 
> And then I further explained that if that drone hits its target, the debris will carry the explosion forward (or whereever the drone goes) and the fireball will not be perfect ball shape, it will be leading toward the motion of travel.
> 
> Then now you say "*camera is blinded after the impact and explosive explosion the fuel explosion is immediately after that*"
> 
> lol, camera won't be blinded by the flash, that's what flash do because the explosion will last a lot longer than the flash, and what is "If the drone dive, it goes no where?" Dude, even if it dive 90 degree straight down, the momentum will carry the drone forward to heavy side up. It's like if you drop something that have serious weight on the floor, once it hit the floor, it will NOT stay at where it first hit the ground, it will simply bounce off (the heavier the object the less the distance it bounce off to). That's because of Newton third law of motion, for every force there is a equal and opposite reaction force, and when that reaction force applies to the object being dropped on the floor, the momentum of the object will lead off the object. And If you had ever fire an explosive round straight down (like dropping a grenade on the floor), you will see the explosion will not just crater the floor, it will still have debris and each part will be flew off according to the size and weight.
> 
> Dude, you are moving your own argument trying to suit the situation, which is a sign you are losing said argument because if that is a fact, the goal post won't move, you won't have to change your argument to justify your point. You said you were a doctor?? Dude, how do you manage to get into Medical School with argument and logic like this? Did you do the same to your patient when you don't know why he/she is sick??
> 
> I mean, I wasn't going to argue with you because it's just one drone, whether it hit the target or got intercepted really not a big deal, I am simply telling you what I interpret as a former Military Intelligence officer with Damage Assessment experience, believe it or not is up to you, but dude, your argument is getting more ridiculous as you go. What next? The explosion wasn' captured by the camera at all or the shot is upside down or what??


How do you have the patience to get the point across who is changing the goal post every other time?



925boy said:


> America is broke, what else is the truth here?


All the doomsdayers: GDP + 2.5% exports growth, dolllar is all time high, unemployment is low and oil being exported to the point that congress initiated a bill for halting exports. 

I will understand you don't like america mostly for its double standard and past foreign policy, but please get your head out of the sand. American economy and its currency is at historical high. 

Please don't let your dislike for American exceptionalism (its selective desire to exercise moral judgment) can't in the way of reality.

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> certainly the missile hit several hundred meter away , the question is what was hit that they use two missile for it
> 
> lol , no he is no where like Stalin , if he was like Stalin , he attacked both Ukraine and Finland and probably Uzbekistan with at least 3 million soldier .
> and he would have sent anybody who was against the war to front-line , with their parents and children and spouse and probably their pets and grand parents .


Its interesting that spend enough time on this forum and I start to agree with people I have previously disagreed with. Putin is not the same as Stalin. Stalin got millions of his own killed. At best Putin may have gotten 40,000 of his killed. Putin did/does business with the west and likes the stealing money/enjoy luxury part of life that Stalin didnt since he was a true communist.

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## Shawnee

aviator_fan said:


> I can guarantee you no arab or muslim butts on fire. All there is disdain for the Iranians that they can't do anything but get Ghazans killed but now they all pro-Iranian fans (who are actually not necessarily pro-Iranian, they just happen to be anti-west) are so happy that Iran has some temporarily in the news for the first time with any significance
> 
> Iran is as useless as a military power as it was in Syria as it is on a daily basis in Ghaza. It loses its commander and it attacks a base where the biggest casualty is shell shock. Wow, impressive innovation.
> 
> 
> How do you have the patience to get the point across who is changing the goal post every other time?



Iran freed south Lebanon, the only piece of land that was taken back from Israel.

Iran kept Assad in place despite Israel and 130 countries attending post Assad Syria conference.

Iran had the ability to address the requirements of the second world power in war.

Iran freed Iraq from ISIS.

If you are worried about Gazans, you should probably complain to many others before Iran.

What have you done for Gazans?

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> you think Ukraine military is completely based on Europe donation . well you are wrong on that
> did Poland or Bulgaria had su-27 , you think how much spare they had in their inventory ?
> how much Greece helped Ukraine ? what was their help exactly?


Are you for real??

Do you think 8 months into this war there are industrial sector in Ukraine being left untouched?? Where have you been in the last 8 months??

And you do realise there are third party company that produce Spare Russian Aircraft parts, right? You don't just produce them in Russia and Ukraine. It's not like you can't make parts if you don't fly Su-27. Parts distributor are basically EVERYWHERE. In EU (Poland and Bulgaria mostly, but also Macedonia and Greece) in China, in VIetnam, and in the US. 

https://www.iso-group.com/sustainment/military-aircraft/SU-27 (US parts manufacturer)
https://megmar.pl/aircraft-spare-parts/?lang=en (Poland Parts Manufacturer)
https://atlas-intbg.com/product/su-27-spare-parts/ (Bulgaria Parts Manufacturer) 

Dude, you are entering an unknown territory, I suggest you tread carefully. Don't comment on stuff that you have no idea on.



dbc said:


> please don't waste your time on flying tuk tuk fanbois.


Well, he asked for it..


----------



## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> do the repair coming from west , do all the ammunition come from west . you are talking about a country that was the workhorse behind USSR industry .


On a bad day Ukrainians are living like people in Pakistan and Sri Lanka that have lived without power for portions of a day on a daily basis ,and that was in peace time. Eventually power grid will be fixed, and irony is Russian funds frozen in west will pay for it. Iranians lost power in the capital in April 2021 but nobody surrendered to Israelis



Shawnee said:


> Iran freed south Lebanon, the only piece of land that was taken back from Israel.
> 
> Iran kept Assad in place despite Israel and 130 countries attending post Assad Syria conference.
> 
> Iran had the ability to address the requirements of the second world power in war.
> 
> Iran freed Iraq from ISIS.
> 
> If you are worried about Gazans, you should probably complain to many others before Iran.
> 
> What have you done for Gazans?


Asad is a useless coward. He lost Golan heights to Israel since 73 and still hasn't been able to claim it back. His Air Force pretty much has lost 100+ aircraft to Israelis since 73. The only Israeli Mirages shot down where those flown by Pakistani pilots that went to Syria. So Iran has been betting on a consistent loser, that other then being shia has no relevance. 

And what is with the 'you' . Are you same as Iran? Direct the question to a country or a political bloc , not to me. You have had nothing to do with Iranian drones, success, or failures, or the shooting of college students. All you have is a keyboard typing away taking credit for Iran.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Asad is a useless coward. He lost Golan heights to Israel since 73 and still hasn't been able to claim it back.



Same can be said of Ukraine not able to get Crimea back.


----------



## Shawnee

As we speak Ukraine continue to be out of power. Fear of dragon everywhere

Butts are on fire due to the dragon performance. Defense mechanism for the butts on fire: US chips, too inexpensive, low tech, we catch 85 percent (sure you do)

Zelensky promised to clip off the wings of this dragon. Asked for more AD. Asked for help. Help

Help help


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 890317
> View attachment 890318
> 
> 
> As we speak Ukraine continue to be out of power. Fear of dragon everywhere
> 
> Butts are on fire due to the dragon performance. Defense mechanism for the butts on fire: US chips, too inexpensive, low tech, we catch 85 percent (sure you do)
> 
> Zelensky promised to clip off the wings of this dragon. Asked for more AD. Asked for help. Help
> 
> Help help



SAM costs half a million dollars. Drone costs 10 grand. No way economy works out for AD.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586011034695106561


----------



## zartosht

The strategic picture is getting bleak for the ukies.

There is going to be a massive Russian offensive in the winter by the looks if it.

It is being rumoured Russia wont stop at 300k. And is going to mobilize upto a million men. 

Belarus is massing Iranian drones and missiles it seems. 

I predict an absolutely shocking Russian blitzkrieg of missiles/cruise missiles/drones numbering jn the thousands. While hundreds of thousands of men pour in from multiple fronts to absolutely break the neck of the ukie army

The ukies are already throwing 60 year olds and lil kids into the meatgrinder. While the population can enjoy a powerless winter. And Europe gets flooded with millions of ukie refugees

A massive day of reckoning is coming. Im like a kid waiting for christmas anticipating this Nato humiliation

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## The SC

Far from the war, the real power of the Russian hyper missiles, note the missile launch speed that America has not yet reached with its missiles.

There are some things in which Russia excels over Europe, China and America, such as the field of giant rocket engines, as evidenced by the fact that America was importing Russian rocket engines for the American space program..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586103019514503168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586099426271297536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586070332141555712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586039453076054016

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586024636394795010

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585994584873648128

Reactions: Love Love:
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## khansaheeb




----------



## BHAN85

zartosht said:


> The strategic picture is getting bleak for the ukies.
> 
> There is going to be a massive Russian offensive in the winter by the looks if it.
> 
> It is being rumoured Russia wont stop at 300k. And is going to mobilize upto a million men.
> 
> Belarus is massing Iranian drones and missiles it seems.
> 
> I predict an absolutely shocking Russian blitzkrieg of missiles/cruise missiles/drones numbering jn the thousands. While hundreds of thousands of men pour in from multiple fronts to absolutely break the neck of the ukie army
> 
> The ukies are already throwing 60 year olds and lil kids into the meatgrinder. While the population can enjoy a powerless winter. And Europe gets flooded with millions of ukie refugees
> 
> A massive day of reckoning is coming. Im like a kid waiting for christmas anticipating this Nato humiliation



NATO can be humiliated or not.

But Russia is already humiliated by itself.

Since they use Iran weapons, and his army is a proved group of drunk rapists and washing machines looters.

And all that against their "Ukrainian brothers".

USA has already won.

The best they can do is come back to their f home.

Moreover, Finland will join NATO and they are not invading Finland, so the argument of the NATO close to Russia borders is absurd.

Russia treat better westerners (because Kremlin cowards are afraid) than his own Russian people and "Ukrainian brothers".

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## Shawnee

jhungary said:


> Shutting down the Powergrid "*PERMENANTLY*" may have work, otherwise it's more or less inconvenience than actual need. And do you even think the Military of Ukraine was hooked up on the same Powergrid? LOL, maybe in Iran they did, I have been to Ukraine in April, I can tell you that they don't. Actually, I have been to many Military installation, US, UK, Germany, even Iraq, they have a different grid than Civilian, and most military are all-day all-weather force anyway, which mean even if the entire Powergrid system was down, it does not hamper the force ability to conduct operation. Which mean shutting down the civilian grid for 3 days does not do anything for the military, all you did is to make the poor soul in Kyiv or Lviv can't download the latest Netflix episode from the internet.
> 
> And dude, Ukraine is at war, a war that they didn't ask for, do you think bombing them will zap their morale?? If so they would have already given up the fight already, you say it like Russia did not target civilian infrastructure before September. What make them fight is to protect their homeland, and what Russia is doing is to try and destroy it, in fact, what Russia is doing is fanning the hate in Ukraine, more Ukrainian join the fight, they just reported that they have recruited twice as many as new recruit than previous 6 months and they aren't short of manpower, all thanks to this. And It didn't work on the Londoner back in WW2, what make you think it work in Ukraine now?
> 
> Again, you want to win a war, that can only be done by killing your enemy fighting men, not killing civilian, if you don't understand that principal of war and think it would have made a different, then all I can say is you are extremely naive. You want to know how to zap Ukrainian morale? Look at what the Ukrainian done to the Russian. Battlefield loses zap both strength and morale of the enemy force, you don't demoralise your enemy by hitting their civilian, you do that by denying their attack and counter-attacking them, you destroy their tempo, then morale will follow, that's why Russian force morale is rock bottom now, how many Russian civilian has been killed by the Ukrainian? How many Russian City got plunged into darkness by Ukrainian missile strike??. That's warfighting 101.



Power grid is predominantly off for the second week. 

Power quota is being performed. 

If they rebuild it ever again, it just takes few more Shahed 135.

A country sits in darkness. That crushes morale at home.

Soon no gas. No Transportation. Maybe no water.

This delays services. Paralyzes the system.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Shawnee said:


> Power grid is predominantly off for the second week.
> 
> Power quota is being performed.
> 
> If they rebuild it ever again, it just takes few more Shahed 135.
> 
> A country sits in darkness. That crushes morale at home.
> 
> Soon no gas. No Transportation. Maybe no water.
> 
> This delays services. Paralyzes the system.



Not to mention no electricity => fridge don't work => food goes bad quick.


----------



## 1ndy

925boy said:


> so how is this related to Shahed 136s performance in the Ukraine war? stop trolling and distracting from the topic at hand pls.


The guy was keep parroting that Iran is the inventor of UCAVs. I just shut his mouth.

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## khansaheeb

Shawnee said:


> Power grid is predominantly off for the second week.
> 
> Power quota is being performed.
> 
> If they rebuild it ever again, it just takes few more Shahed 135.
> 
> A country sits in darkness. That crushes morale at home.
> 
> Soon no gas. No Transportation. Maybe no water.
> 
> This delays services. Paralyzes the system.


If the winter is bitterly cold then the Ukrainians will feel it. Food and water shortage will create immense suffering and Western news will talk about how Russians are losing. Ukraine is losing until the war is fought on Russian soil. The key to the war is supply lines and the manufacturing and delivery of weapons to troops who are trained to use it. Neither side is showing deficiency With Russians able to incrementally increase firepower to tactical nukes. NATO have said they will declare war on Russia, if nukes are used, whatever that means, but can be interpreted to mean NATO would go fight with similar weapons. Why are the Zions so determined to side with Ukraine to the extent of losing 100s of millions of people would be interesting to know. The ZIoAnglosaxon fixation on Ukraine is strange but war with Russia is stranger.


----------



## That Guy

zartosht said:


> The strategic picture is getting bleak for the ukies.
> 
> There is going to be a massive Russian offensive in the winter by the looks if it.
> 
> It is being rumoured Russia wont stop at 300k. And is going to mobilize upto a million men.
> 
> Belarus is massing Iranian drones and missiles it seems.
> 
> I predict an absolutely shocking Russian blitzkrieg of missiles/cruise missiles/drones numbering jn the thousands. While hundreds of thousands of men pour in from multiple fronts to absolutely break the neck of the ukie army
> 
> The ukies are already throwing 60 year olds and lil kids into the meatgrinder. While the population can enjoy a powerless winter. And Europe gets flooded with millions of ukie refugees
> 
> A massive day of reckoning is coming. Im like a kid waiting for christmas anticipating this Nato humiliation


Lmao

Weapons grade copium right here 🤣🤣

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## 1ndy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586039385845534720


So more than 75% components either made in US or Europe and here Iranians are saying they are the inventor of UCAVs that too in 1980s. LOL!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

khansaheeb said:


> If the winter is bitterly cold then the Ukrainians will feel it. Food and water shortage will create immense suffering and Western news will talk about how Russians are losing. Ukraine is losing until the war is fought on Russian soil. The key to the war is supply lines and the manufacturing and delivery of weapons to troops who are trained to use it. Neither side is showing deficiency With Russians able to incrementally increase firepower to tactical nukes. NATO have said they will declare war on Russia, if nukes are used, whatever that means, but can be interpreted to mean NATO would go fight with similar weapons. *Why are the Zions so determined to side with Ukraine to the extent of losing 100s of millions of people would be interesting to know. The ZIoAnglosaxon fixation on Ukraine is strange but war with Russia is stranger.*




Because Russia chose to sell its oil and gas in a currency that is not the US Dollar. The whole Zio-Anglo-Saxon power comes from this fiat money. Otherwise, how would they sanction and suffocate countries if people are gonna abandon holding onto this paper and fraudulent money?

SWIFT is no longer the only means that central banks of countries around the world exchange messages while conducting trade; the Chinese-led CHIPS and Russian-led SPFS are also in the picture despite them being in the early stages. 

The sanctions imposed on Russia aren't working because Putin refused to take the US Dollar and Euro and instead demanded his Ruble or trade based on other currencies and because he chose to sell his gas and oil at a cheaper rate, especially to China, India, and others. 

The whole European economies are in meltdown; so the only thing left to the Zio-Anglo-Saxon elites is to prolong the war in Ukraine. This is why the Zelensky fool can't make decisions that can help his country. Once the West imposes a puppet on a country, they get something on that fool, and they can flip that impotent fool in any way they can. The plight of his countrymen and women is irrelevant to the puppet; what he worries about is what they (Zio-Anglo-Saxon elites) have on him.

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## 1ndy

Beny Karachun said:


> So? Does that make it not the first UCAV?
> 
> Does that make it less innovative? If a UCAV isn't used in a war it isn't innovative, but when Iran strapped some RPG rounds on a drone 40 years later and used it in a war to no effect is innovative?


Nuclear missiles never used in any war by any country. 
Anti satellite weapons never used in any war by any country. 
There are many examples.


----------



## jhungary

Shawnee said:


> Power grid is predominantly off for the second week.
> 
> Power quota is being performed.
> 
> If they rebuild it ever again, it just takes few more Shahed 135.
> 
> A country sits in darkness. That crushes morale at home.
> 
> Soon no gas. No Transportation. Maybe no water.
> 
> This delays services. Paralyzes the system.


lol, I don't know how you associated no power to no gas no transportation (So you bomb Ukraine powergrid and truck from Poland and Romania stopped working??) And lol, you really have to be stupid to believe no power will result in no morale. Not even Iran or Syria did that nor the worst time duing WW2..

At the end of the day, with border still open, and Europe still accepting refugee, if any Ukrainian felt like they can't hold on anymore, they would have done what the Brits done and what they themselves done at the beginning of the war and evacuate to the West. You really don't understand why civilian still living in Ukraine. If Morale is a factor, they would have already gone by now. 

Again, all this does NOTHING to soldier in the field. You can bomb their power station all you want, they probably will sent you a thank you note for doing that, because you basically taking pressure off troop on the front line. But hey, as they said, don't stop your enemy when they are being stupid, please do bomb the powergrid, as this is the right move...LOL


----------



## Shawnee

1ndy said:


> The guy was keep parroting that Iran is the inventor of UCAVs. I just shut his mouth.



Again
If you dislike Shahed you are going to hate Arash and Fateh series.

Yes
UCAV is Iranian invention and signature. Indic.


----------



## 1ndy

Shawnee said:


> Again
> If you dislike Shahed you are going to hate Arash and Fateh series.
> 
> Yes
> UCAV is Iranian invention and signature. Indic.


I already burst your bubble. You're on my ignore list now. Request others to do the same...

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## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> So? Does that make it not the first UCAV?
> 
> Does that make it less innovative? If a UCAV isn't used in a war it isn't innovative, but when Iran strapped some RPG rounds on a drone 40 years later and used it in a war to no effect is innovative?



Patents for balloons and idea and projects that were aborted per owner due to failure do not define building a successful UCAV.

If you made UCAV prior to Iranian 1980s, share the evidence.



1ndy said:


> I already burst your bubble. You're on my ignore list now. Request others to do the same...



I am not waiting for your reply. It is worthless.

I leave clarification for others.


----------



## jhungary

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Not to mention no electricity => fridge don't work => food goes bad quick.


Dude, it's you say Ukrainian will freeze to death with no electricity and no heat. So how food will go bad if people will freeze to death? Which mean either people freeze to death in above zero temperature, or food go bad quick in subzero temperature...It can't both be true

Do you really have a brain and use it before you say stuff? Or it's just a verbal diarrhea for you? You just puke whatever word out?? 

Don't answer me tho, as I don't speak Idiots.

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## sammuel

~

There are hundreds of m109 in storage in US and Europe , don't know why they have not send them 100+ of those long ago.

Even though it is older , it has been modernized and is much better than what the Russians are pulling out of storage now days.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586001454426619906

~

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> my last post on the matter its how fast things fall from the sky . go see if what you call interception was like this
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586047344809676800
> 
> thats how we operated armed Mohajer-1 . it was controlled by handheld radio in line of sight .
> and now UCAV become niche ? let tell you about another Nieche , that is mechanized artillery we invented 1700s


It is not an UCAV if you have to have line of sight.
It is an armed RC-model.
Leonardos Fighting Vehicle predated the 18th century.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Dude, it's you say Ukrainian will freeze to death with no electricity and no heat. So how food will go bad if people will freeze to death? Which mean either people freeze to death in above zero temperature, or food go bad quick in subzero temperature...It can't both be true
> 
> Do you really have a brain and use it before you say stuff? Or it's just a verbal diarrhea for you? You just puke whatever word out??
> 
> Don't answer me tho, as I don't speak Idiots.



While it is true humans can survive 4 C temperature, it is extremely uncomfortable. However, at 4 C food goes bad quick due to bacteria. Obviously, bacteria and humans have vastly different response to temperature.


----------



## Shawnee

Around 400 BC in Greece, Archytas was reputed to have designed and built the first artificial, self-propelled flying device, a bird-shaped model propelled by a jet of what was probably steam, said to have flown some 200 m.

He is not inventor of airplane because there is no evidence but anecdotes!!!

—————-
In 1799, George Cayley set forth the concept of the modern airplane as a fixed-wing flying machine with separate systems for lift, propulsion, and control.Cayley was building and flying models of fixed-wing aircraft as early as 1803, and he built a successful passenger-carrying glider in 1853.


He is not inventor of airplane because he was not in it.
——
Did you know Wright brothers were brought to the court to show witness or picture of the flight.
———
*If you read the very vague and mixed history of invention of the airplane, UCAV invention is actually very clear and well established.

Iran has the evidence and footage for UCAV better than wright brothers did.*


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> There are hundreds of m109 in storage in US and Europe , don't know why they have not send them 100+ of those long ago.
> 
> Even though it is older , it has been modernized and is much better than what the Russians are pulling out of storage now days.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586001454426619906
> 
> ~



Too expensive. These obsolete ones in storage can only fire unguided rounds. The logistics of supplying lots of unguided rounds is expensive in terms of fuel. Not to mention they don't last very long and break down easy.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586227898343636993

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## Beny Karachun

1ndy said:


> Nuclear missiles never used in any war by any country.
> Anti satellite weapons never used in any war by any country.
> There are many examples.


What's your point? Why does this matter?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Dude, it's you say Ukrainian will freeze to death with no electricity and no heat. So how food will go bad if people will freeze to death? Which mean either people freeze to death in above zero temperature, or food go bad quick in subzero temperature...It can't both be true
> 
> Do you really have a brain and use it before you say stuff? Or it's just a verbal diarrhea for you? You just puke whatever word out??
> 
> Don't answer me tho, as I don't speak Idiots.



When people freeze to death they typically get sick and die from bacteria rather than from cold temperature itself. Try it. If you sleep outside when it is 4 C outside you will catch a cold and die from bacteria.

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## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> Patents for balloons and idea and projects that were aborted per owner due to failure do not define building a successful UCAV.
> 
> If you made UCAV prior to Iranian 1980s, share the evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not waiting for your reply. It is worthless.
> 
> I leave clarification for others.


I'm entirely convinced you're braindead, your definition of innovation is strapping some RPG 7 rounds on a drone even though weapons have been mounted on a drone 40 years before that



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> When people freeze to death they typically get sick and die from bacteria rather than from cold temperature itself. Try it. If you sleep outside when it is 4 C outside you will catch a cold and die from bacteria.


I thought you said their food will go bad because their freezer won't work lol

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## jhungary

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> There are hundreds of m109 in storage in US and Europe , don't know why they have not send them 100+ of those long ago.
> 
> Even though it is older , it has been modernized and is much better than what the Russians are pulling out of storage now days.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586001454426619906
> 
> ~


There were talks in the US to send 200+ M109A6 currently being stored/used by National Guard to Ukraine. Me and @Oldman1 talked about it some months ago and it went nowhere.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## Paul2

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> There are hundreds of m109 in storage in US and Europe , don't know why they have not send them 100+ of those long ago.
> 
> Even though it is older , it has been modernized and is much better than what the Russians are pulling out of storage now days.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586001454426619906
> 
> ~



Moreover, US and allies have 1 thousand+ of M198 with pristine barrels, which were never even used for drills, which are being sent to smelter as we are speaking. This while expensive M777 barrels are running out, and the US went as far as to ask Australia to send back spares.

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## RescueRanger

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> There are hundreds of m109 in storage in US and Europe , don't know why they have not send them 100+ of those long ago.
> 
> Even though it is older , it has been modernized and is much better than what the Russians are pulling out of storage now days.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586001454426619906
> 
> ~


Because the US and EU need to maintain a WAR reserve mate.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> certainly the missile hit several hundred meter away , the question is what was hit that they use two missile for it
> 
> lol , no he is no where like Stalin , if he was like Stalin , he attacked both Ukraine and Finland and probably Uzbekistan with at least 3 million soldier .
> and he would have sent anybody who was against the war to front-line , with their parents and children and spouse and probably their pets and grand parents .


Where to get millions of soldiers? Putin struggles to recruit 300,000 men. The only option: he stops his self invented military ops shit, calling an all-out war, but he must explain to millions of mothers why he sends them to die in foreign countries.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586064065302237184

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585989522390761472


----------



## Viet

Chechen leader and “Blutshund” Kadyrow is not happy with Russia army’s performance.
Some believe he will ally with Pyroshenko, the leader of neonazi criminal Wagner group, to plan a coup d’etat.

Will be interesting.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586260101408489473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586262318853156864

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585926281526644736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586252000731156480
Basically each side is preparing for deploying nuclear weapons.

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## BHAN85

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/rosiya-namagayetsya-zrobiti-hersonshinu-bukvalno-zonoyu-vidc-78773





> The occupiers added another challenge - in the occupied territory. Virtually, they are dismantling the entire healthcare system there. *The occupiers have decided to close medical institutions in the cities, take away equipment, ambulances - just everything...* They put pressure on the doctors who still remained in the occupied areas for them to move to the territory of Russia.



Shameful!

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is not an UCAV if you have to have line of sight.
> It is an armed RC-model.
> Leonardos Fighting Vehicle predated the 18th century.


whatever, 1984 dude if you want to see what you fire at , you needed the line of sight, unless , you put a tv station in the uav

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## jhungary

Beny Karachun said:


> I thought you said their food will go bad because their freezer won't work lol


You are answering a dude who said "Homeless died because of hygiene problem" not because it's sleeping rough and there is no shelter in place for exposure. 

I guess either he is right and aide agency around the world should start handing out antibiotic instead of blanket or that dude know nothing about sleeping rough outside @ 4C (which is way higher than normal Ukraine winter by the way) 

lol, I had my smoothies speck out when I read his response....

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Where to get millions of soldiers? Putin struggles to recruit 300,000 men. The only option: he stops his self invented military ops shit, calling an all-out war, but he must explain to millions of mothers why he sends them to die in foreign countries.


you compare him to Stalin , I assure you Stalin did not have problem finding 3 million soldier , just sent 30000 draft dodger to Siberia with their family and the next week he had 5 million volunteer .


----------



## jhungary

Soldier whose sailor father died in notorious Kursk submarine tragedy is killed fighting in Ukraine


----------



## alimobin memon

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is not an UCAV if you have to have line of sight.
> It is an armed RC-model.
> Leonardos Fighting Vehicle predated the 18th century.


I have been observing this debate about iran being one of first. Well, before that I want to convey people that ucav means an unmanned vehicle with combat capabilities and it does not mean it is NLOS or in LOS sight. For the time of 80s fighting against iraq it should be effective as that time AD sys must have had hard time targetting them when we look at modern sys having difficulty there is no chance 80s sys have had better performance.

Armed rc model is unmanned vehicle please consider that in mind and if we debate on that then german nazis fielded goliath with explosive suicidal concept. So yes, nazis were first to field unmanned vehicle.

Siege of venice in 19th century was recorded case.

Lee de forest was first to bring concept in 1940 from USA to introduce radio guidance and tv guidance to control vehicle systems.

V1 was first ucav. Yes, cruise missile are first ucavs there were prototypes to use radio control as they can change trajectory but nazi military wanted to use for terror instead of precision bombing which would have had terrifying results. It was not wise or dumb decision it was just that they couldnt understand at full in beginning. This bombs concept was introduced in 1935.

So you can say iran was first to field in middle east with proper guidance to guide the aircraft.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> you compare him to Stalin , I assure you Stalin did not have problem finding 3 million soldier , just sent 30000 draft dodger to Siberia with their family and the next week he had 5 million volunteer .


You don’t see the differences?
Stalin ruled an empire USSR with allies.
Putin rules a poor Russia fully addicted to oil and gas. No allies, ok accept Iran.
The Red army was famous and successful.
The Russia army sucks.

Putin wants to be Stalin, but I believe he has a problem.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> whatever, 1984 dude if you want to see what you fire at , you needed the line of sight, unless , you put a tv station in the uav


Television guidance has been available since the 1960s.








AGM-62 Walleye - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Without a TV camera you cannot really aim, and are not much better than the Civil War balloons.

The fact is that Iran designs based on western ideas and western components, and have very little to brag about.



alimobin memon said:


> I have been observing this debate about iran being one of first. Well, before that I want to convey people that ucav means an unmanned vehicle with combat capabilities and it does not mean it is NLOS or in LOS sight. For the time of 80s fighting against iraq it should be effective as that time AD sys must have had hard time targetting them when we look at modern sys having difficulty there is no chance 80s sys have had better performance.
> 
> Armed rc model is unmanned vehicle please consider that in mind and if we debate on that then german nazis fielded goliath with explosive suicidal concept. So yes, nazis were first to field unmanned vehicle.
> 
> Siege of venice in 19th century was recorded case.
> 
> Lee de forest was first to bring concept in 1940 from USA to introduce radio guidance and tv guidance to control vehicle systems.
> 
> V1 was first ucav. Yes, cruise missile are first ucavs there were prototypes to use radio control as they can change trajectory but nazi military wanted to use for terror instead of precision bombing which would have had terrifying results. It was not wise or dumb decision it was just that they couldnt understand at full in beginning. This bombs concept was introduced in 1935.
> 
> So you can say iran was first to field in middle east with proper guidance to guide the aircraft.


You can say that Iran was the first country to have an UCAV designed in Iran and used by Iranian forces in a war between Iraq and Iran.
Congratulations Iran.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> You don’t see the differences?
> Stalin ruled an empire USSR with allies.
> Putin rules a poor Russia fully addicted to oil and gas. No allies, ok accept Iran.
> The Red army was famous and successful.
> The Russia army sucks.
> 
> Putin wants to be Stalin, but I believe he has a problem.


not important , the fact that you knew you and your family will disappear without any name of you mentioned if you didn't willingly sign yourself and your two year old child was incentive enough to go to nearest army recruitment center as soon as you saw they are talking about the possibility of mobilization



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Without a TV camera you cannot really aim, and are not much better than the Civil War balloons.


ww1 and ww2 bombers


A.P. Richelieu said:


> The fact is that Iran designs based on western ideas and western components, and have very little to brag about.


let not go into it , its not the place for that , if you want you can open a thread about it and tag me.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586157093534457856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586243507945095168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586273851729649664

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586157093534457856
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586243507945095168
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586273851729649664



"No guns, no training, no tactics ..... Aren't we the Russian Army ..."

Says it all right now!!!

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## Viet

Mercedes says goodbye.

By this pace of western exodus Russia will be emptied by western companies by next year. All investments in the last 50y gone.

Putin’s endgame is to be impoverished North Korea.









Mercedes and Ford pull out of Russian market - BBC News


The company said it did not expect the move to have a significant effect on profitability.




www.bbc.com

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## zartosht

jhungary said:


> Dude, it's you say Ukrainian will freeze to death with no electricity and no heat. So how food will go bad if people will freeze to death? Which mean either people freeze to death in above zero temperature, or food go bad quick in subzero temperature...It can't both be true
> 
> Do you really have a brain and use it before you say stuff? Or it's just a verbal diarrhea for you? You just puke whatever word out??
> 
> Don't answer me tho, as I don't speak Idiots.



You seem to be getting really frustrated my good general. I know man. I totally know if they had only listened to you things would have ended differently



That Guy said:


> Lmao
> 
> Weapons grade copium right here 🤣🤣



Mr pdf thinkthank. Want to put a wager on? 

You say Russia will accept west terms that are tantamount to an unconditional surrender

While im looking at enormous pain and territory loss for the ukies. In 6 months whoever is wrong deletes their account?

Want to put your money where your mouth is? Or you just coping/trolling?

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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> Where to get millions of soldiers? Putin struggles to recruit 300,000 men. The only option: he stops his self invented military ops shit, calling an all-out war, but he must explain to millions of mothers why he sends them to die in foreign countries.



These conscripts are not reinforcements. They are meat Shields for the trained soldiers, and they know it. Classic Russian doctrine.

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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> These conscripts are not reinforcements. They are meat Shields for the trained soldiers, and they know it. Classic Russian doctrine.


Their survivability is low. If these fresh 300,000 russians can survive a week or a month in Ukraine they will feel happy. Against combat hardened Ukraine army those cowards have zero chance. People can see it at the battle of Charkiw. Even the experienced reenforcement troops ran away. What the untrained unmotivated can do? The winter will make their lives even harder.

Worthless sacrifice.

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## zartosht

kingQamaR said:


> These conscripts are not reinforcements. They are meat Shields for the trained soldiers, and they know it. Classic Russian doctrine.



The ukies are in their 9th round of recruitment. And are recruiting 60 year olds and kids now

This is the very first Russian recruitment

I just do not see the logic behind pathetic western propaganda that the Russians are cannon fodder orcs, but the ukies are all Rambos

Do people just belive whatever western propaganda tells them? It would take 1 minute of logical thinking to debunk this. But logic is in short supply in a delusional land called the west, where men can be women and women can be men whenever they choose or say so. Sometimes even multiple gender changes a day

The west has really declined. Pathetic to see

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585311871208689666

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586317364114644992

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586329276344770560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586328077113532416

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## kingQamaR

zartosht said:


> The ukies are in their 9th round of recruitment. And are recruiting 60 year olds and kids now
> 
> This is the very first Russian recruitment
> 
> I just do not see the logic behind pathetic western propaganda that the Russians are cannon fodder orcs, but the ukies are all Rambos
> 
> Do people just belive whatever western propaganda tells them? It would take 1 minute of logical thinking to debunk this. But logic is in short supply in a delusional land called the west, where men can be women and women can be men whenever they choose or say so. Sometimes even multiple gender changes a day
> 
> The west has really declined. Pathetic to see



"Ukraine mobilised their population 8 months. Russia partially mobilised 1 month ago" Those dates don't add up. It was RUSSIA that invaded first. Good attempt at trying to defend Russia tho.



Viet said:


> Their survivability is low. If these fresh 300,000 russians can survive a week or a month in Ukraine they will feel happy. Against combat hardened Ukraine army those cowards have zero chance. People can see it at the battle of Charkiw. Even the experienced reenforcement troops ran away. What the untrained unmotivated can do? The winter will make their lives even harder.
> 
> Worthless sacrifice.




You forget the thousands of Russian soldiers killed and the vast amount of equipment destroyed. Russia is now using Iranian drones which tells you much about both the technology the Russians have and the number of weapons they have left to use. Attacking soft targets like the power grid shows the Russian forces are not prepared to engage with Ukrainian forces as they know they will loose. An army of conscripts are just cannon fodder

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586337360840515584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586329051391987712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586328283230208001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586315256338714625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586304573139927043

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586304610838667265


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586339298462220288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586333983658459137

Reactions: Like Like:
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## 1ndy

Shawnee said:


> Again
> If you dislike Shahed you are going to hate Arash and Fateh series.
> 
> Yes
> UCAV is Iranian invention and signature. Indic.


I already burst your bubble. You're on my ignore list now. Request others to do the same...


Beny Karachun said:


> What's your point? Why does this matter?


my point is, if a weapon isn't used in a war, it does not mean it won't work or it is not the first system of its kind.

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## Beny Karachun

1ndy said:


> I already burst your bubble. You're on my ignore list now. Request others to do the same...
> 
> my point is, if a weapon isn't used in a war, it does not mean it won't work or it is not the first system of its kind.


Yeah I agree, I was saying basically the same.



alimobin memon said:


> So you can say iran was first to field in middle east with proper guidance to guide the aircraft.


This isn't even remotely true, Israel used UAVs way before Iran. Since 1973.

Apparently Iran one upped Israel by strapping RPG7s onto it even though that's basically useless.


----------



## RescueRanger

The face of defeat...






In other news, U.S DOD has put a tender out for supply of Ak74 type assault rifles:









Link to official source:





SAM.gov







sam.gov


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RescueRanger said:


> In other news, U.S DOD has put a tender out for supply of Ak74 type assault rifles:



AK-74 is pretty rare. AK-47 7.62 mm is very common and was made in China for a long time. AK-74 5.45 mm is hard to find outside Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, former USSR countries. I would suggest the US supply M16 to Ukraine if they need rifles.

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586157093534457856
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586243507945095168
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586273851729649664


Special Operation codename: "Meat Shield"

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586341658945531904

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## zartosht

Massive diesel shortage coming to the delusional west

But but ukraine!! World war trans!!

10k british people expected to freeze to death this winter, while the british navy blows up pipelines. Cant make this ironic karma up

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RescueRanger said:


> Special Operation codename: "Meat Shield"
> View attachment 890485



The mobilized are only used for guarding the rear. Attacks are done by volunteers who are highly motivated.


----------



## RescueRanger

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The mobilized are only used for guarding the rear. Attacks are done by volunteers who are highly motivated.


Well as far as I am concerned the Russian military is Kaput, that is not to say that Russia hasn't destabilised western financial markets. While the common person struggles the big corporations make profit from blood:

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> The face of defeat...
> View attachment 890406
> 
> 
> In other news, U.S DOD has put a tender out for supply of Ak74 type assault rifles:
> 
> View attachment 890482
> View attachment 890483
> 
> 
> Link to official source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAM.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sam.gov


They are buying for CCDC-AC. Which mean they are used for training and development. It depends on the number they purchase, it can be for OPFOR, but most likely it is for training Ukrainian soldier, they are probably doing the same thing the Brits does. The US is sending 10,000 Ukrainian to US for advance training. That may be why

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> They are buying for CCDC-AC. Which mean they are used for training and development. It depends on the number they purchase, it can be for OPFOR, but most likely it is for training Ukrainian soldier, they are probably doing the same thing the Brits does. The US is sending 10,000 Ukrainian to US for advance training. That may be why


Thanks.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586343546008674305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586345967288463360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586338125680644096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586327262697512965

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586329631032070144

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## alimobin memon

Beny Karachun said:


> Yeah I agree, I was saying basically the same.
> 
> 
> This isn't even remotely true, Israel used UAVs way before Iran. Since 1973.
> 
> Apparently Iran one upped Israel by strapping RPG7s onto it even though that's basically useless.


Less effective, yes. Useless ? No.


----------



## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> I'm entirely convinced you're braindead, your definition of innovation is strapping some RPG 7 rounds on a drone even though weapons have been mounted on a drone 40 years before that
> 
> 
> I thought you said their food will go bad because their freezer won't work lol



This is like telling Wright brother: “ Your plane did not even have an engine. You strapped a few flaps together. This patent or failed contraption that never worked had an engine.”

Iranian Mohajer met all the requirements to be the first documented UCAV.

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## yuba

RescueRanger said:


> Well as far as I am concerned the Russian military is Kaput, that is not to say that Russia hasn't destabilised western financial markets. While the common person struggles the big corporations make profit from blood:
> View attachment 890488


Shell doubled its profits while I'm in favor of a windfall tax every ten pound of fuel put into a our vehicles 8 poud is tax they tax the fuel and then also stick VAT on it. It would be great if all that revenue went on schools and hospitals also giving free university to all citizens but it does not


----------



## That Guy

zartosht said:


> You seem to be getting really frustrated my good general. I know man. I totally know if they had only listened to you things would have ended differently
> 
> 
> 
> Mr pdf thinkthank. Want to put a wager on?
> 
> You say Russia will accept west terms that are tantamount to an unconditional surrender
> 
> While im looking at enormous pain and territory loss for the ukies. In 6 months whoever is wrong deletes their account?
> 
> Want to put your money where your mouth is? Or you just coping/trolling?


PDF doesn't allow deleting accounts, I've tried, so your bet is meaningless.

I also never said Russia would accept anything. The truth is Russia doesn't have to accept anything, but rather reality will force the issue of a Russian loss regardless of Russia's wishes.

The Ukranians just fucked up the Russian black Sea Fleet again, just to put into perspective of just how fucked up Russia is.

The fact that the Russians have had to mobilize 300,000 more troops for a war they don't even consider a war, because of their enormous attrition rate is proof enough that Russia is losing the war. On top of that, Ukraine is taking back territory using thunder run tactics, and absolutely decimating Russian defensive lines.

You really have no leg to stand on.

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## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> Useless, did nothing in the war
> 
> 
> Okay retard, if I put a toilet on a drone I'll be the inventor of a UTAV then, I'm probably a genius



Insult is reported. @waz 
Retard is your father

If you have one

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## MeFishToo

Antonovsky ponton bridge being hit by HIMARS at night. It probably only takes a few hits to disable that route.


----------



## That Guy

zartosht said:


> Massive diesel shortage coming to the delusional west
> 
> But but ukraine!! World war trans!!
> 
> 10k british people expected to freeze to death this winter, while the british navy blows up pipelines. Cant make this ironic karma up


Just a reminder, Tucker Carlson admitted in court that he's a liar and only idiots take him seriously.

If people take him seriously, they're by Tucker Carlson's own standards, complete morons.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586362892969967618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586369935395246080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586366547282472960

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## 925boy

zartosht said:


> The ukies are in their 9th round of recruitment. And are recruiting 60 year olds and kids now
> 
> This is the very first Russian recruitment
> 
> I just do not see the logic behind pathetic western propaganda that the Russians are cannon fodder orcs, but the ukies are all Rambos
> 
> Do people just belive whatever western propaganda tells them? It would take 1 minute of logical thinking to debunk this. But logic is in short supply in a delusional land called the west, where men can be women and women can be men whenever they choose or say so. Sometimes even multiple gender changes a day
> 
> The west has really declined. Pathetic to see


and then why does Russia have over 8000 Ukranian POWs??? that is so many soldiers, it tells me things are hard for Ukrainian soldiers fighting on the war front- they DONT have anything good or in good quantity- not food, not ammunition, not air defense, not drones, not good communications, nothing! But this is the necessary cost for their NATO aspirations that could not go past the dreams phase.

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## Ali_Baba

Russian warship is damaged in Ukraine drone assault as massive explosions rock key Crimean port Sevastapol​








Russian warship damaged in Ukraine drone assault on Crimean naval port


The drone attacks saw Russia end the 'grain corridor' in retaliation after claiming that the ships that were targeted by Ukraine forces were involved in the deal to allow grain exports.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> wow...

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## MeFishToo

Ali_Baba said:


> Russian warship is damaged in Ukraine drone assault as massive explosions rock key Crimean port Sevastapol​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian warship damaged in Ukraine drone assault on Crimean naval port
> 
> 
> The drone attacks saw Russia end the 'grain corridor' in retaliation after claiming that the ships that were targeted by Ukraine forces were involved in the deal to allow grain exports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> wow...


Ukrainian water drones being intercepted near Sevastapol




Strike in Sevastapol


----------



## Ali_Baba

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586227859965853696


> “In the Russian national identity, Potemkin is heavily associated with the Russian conquest of Ukrainian lands in the 18th century and highlights the weight Putin almost certainly places on perceived historical justification for the invasion,” the MoD update states.
> 
> “This symbolic removal of Potemkin and the civilian exodus likely pre-empts Russian intent to expedite withdrawal from the area.”



The more i read about Russia's actions of Kherson - the more i think the Russian's will explode a dirty bomb in Kherson to make the area uninhabitable for Ukranians... and this just proves it to me.. Russia is trying to make the Kherson region a no man’s land ....

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586347310153433088


----------



## SIPRA

Russia has suspended indefinitely implementation of the Grain Deal.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

SIPRA said:


> Russia has suspended indefinitely implementation of the Grain Deal.



About time. Without grain export, Ukraine's economy collapses.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586296406188310530

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The true power of Sevastopol is naval aviation Su-30 jets and especially combat drones.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586360812892958720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586359969766510592


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586370535767920643
Russian Foreign Ministry:

We will address the international community about Britain's involvement in the terrorist attacks in the Baltic and Black Seas

@Roaastudies

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## Hassan Al-Somal

What does Tucker Carlson mean by "World War Trans"? I didn't get the "Trans" part. 👇



zartosht said:


> Massive diesel shortage coming to the delusional west
> 
> But but ukraine!! World war trans!!
> 
> 10k british people expected to freeze to death this winter, while the british navy blows up pipelines. Cant make this ironic karma up





The troublemaking Britons are shitting in their pants. It seems they worry the repercussions of their actions in Nord Stream and Nord Stream II pipelines. Things are escalating. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586344804928999424

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## The SC

New Russian Suicide Drone Doing Duty
Very accurate and also has great explosive power

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> New Russian Suicide Drone Doing Duty
> Very accurate and also has great explosive power
> 
> View attachment 890573
> 
> 
> View attachment 890574
> 
> 
> View attachment 890575



Made of plastic. Radar cannot detect it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586391359916634112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586378139336597504

Russian Defense:
▪️ The Kyiv regime carried out a terrorist attack on the ships of the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol.
▪️ As a result of the attack, the naval minesweeper "Ivan Golopis" in Yuzhnaya Bay was slightly damaged
▪️ The British Navy that trained Ukrainian forces for the terrorist attack in Sevastopol is the one who blew up Nord Stream.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586333726018924550

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586361041985961985

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586371016598597632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586396019486388224






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586382742576824320

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586402445625729026
damn

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586325029511630850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586317008101994499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586356121186410496'

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586356132460625920

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586389983991955456


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585989522390761472


Also, the US says China is the bigger threat.
Russia becomes less and less important.

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## Shawnee

The SC said:


> New Russian Suicide Drone Doing Duty
> Very accurate and also has great explosive power
> 
> View attachment 890576
> 
> 
> View attachment 890573
> 
> 
> View attachment 890574
> 
> 
> View attachment 890575



Smaller Shahed version 

Estimated price 10k

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## zartosht

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What does Tucker Carlson mean by "World War Trans"? I didn't get the "Trans" part. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The troublemaking Britons are shitting in their pants. It seems they worry the repercussions of their actions in Nord Stream and Nord Stream II pipelines. Things are escalating. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586344804928999424



Hes mocking and making fun of the western establishments OBSESSION with woke lgbtq causes

Trans for transexuals. The newest obsession the establishment. They will not rest until perverted men are allowed into every womens bathtoom/change room

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Viet

Ukraine seems receiving many pieces of older western artillery.

Old but still good and lethal.







Soldaten der ukrainischen Streitkräfte feuern mit einer deutschen 155-mm-Haubitze FH70. © Ukrinform/dpa

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## Oublious

The SC said:


> Far from the war, the real power of the Russian hyper missiles, note the missile launch speed that America has not yet reached with its missiles.
> 
> There are some things in which Russia excels over Europe, China and America, such as the field of giant rocket engines, as evidenced by the fact that America was importing Russian rocket engines for the American space program..




these are old sovjet made anti balistic missiles, maybe at least 30 years old. They are testing if it works, they are armed with nuclear warhead to intercept ballistis missile.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> Smaller Shahed version
> 
> Estimated price 10k


Keep spewing numbers out of your ***

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## PakFactor

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


>



I hope she makes it out of there; don't worry about the machine.


----------



## Shawnee

IRGC officer, Brigadier general Sina from Kherson front will directly call Putin tonight.

Lots of butts on fire mostly outside Ukraine.

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## Viet

The US brings modernized version of B61 nuclear bombs to Europe by next months.

Probably Europe can sleep better with more nukes.










US to send hi-tech nuclear weapons to Nato bases amid rising tensions with Russia


Deployment of B61-12 tactical bombs to Europe comes after Moscow held military exercises showcasing its own ballistic capabilities




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586341619288215552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586337897300434947

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586337903692713984
Failed AFU offensive near Donetsk

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586125109810843648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586125116295237633

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586353603912294400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586353020597829633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586263382113517568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586288571282956288


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586424931667279872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586430828443500544


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

zartosht said:


> Hes mocking and making fun of the western establishments OBSESSION with woke lgbtq causes
> 
> Trans for transexuals. The newest obsession the establishment. They will not rest until perverted men are allowed into every womens bathtoom/change room



In that case, Tucker Carlson is on spot. I never understood how can men or women choose their gender; it is biological. You don't choose your gender. But then in the minds of the Satan-worshippers, the opposite of what is natural is what they promote.

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## The SC




----------



## 925boy

SIPRA said:


> Russia has suspended indefinitely implementation of the Grain Deal.


Good. Russia has shown Ukraine mercy that US has never shown any adversary.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586263382113517568


----------



## aviator_fan

zartosht said:


> The strategic picture is getting bleak for the ukies.
> 
> There is going to be a massive Russian offensive in the winter by the looks if it.
> 
> It is being rumoured Russia wont stop at 300k. And is going to mobilize upto a million men.
> 
> Belarus is massing Iranian drones and missiles it seems.
> 
> I predict an absolutely shocking Russian blitzkrieg of missiles/cruise missiles/drones numbering jn the thousands. While hundreds of thousands of men pour in from multiple fronts to absolutely break the neck of the ukie army
> 
> The ukies are already throwing 60 year olds and lil kids into the meatgrinder. While the population can enjoy a powerless winter. And Europe gets flooded with millions of ukie refugees
> 
> A massive day of reckoning is coming. Im like a kid waiting for christmas anticipating this Nato humiliation


You and Shawnee both sound like Putin's military advisers in January of this year: hope/wish/this will happen, that will happen. Fact is neither side knows how it will prevail. So stop acting like a fortune teller, and talk about the tactics and whats taking place, not the wet dream of what you think your idol will do

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## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> The US brings modernized version of B61 nuclear bombs to Europe by next months.
> 
> Probably Europe can sleep better with more nukes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US to send hi-tech nuclear weapons to Nato bases amid rising tensions with Russia
> 
> 
> Deployment of B61-12 tactical bombs to Europe comes after Moscow held military exercises showcasing its own ballistic capabilities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 890597


Europe is one step closer to a nuclear graveyard.


----------



## aviator_fan

Shawnee said:


> Again
> If you dislike Shahed you are going to hate Arash and Fateh series.
> 
> Yes
> UCAV is Iranian invention and signature. Indic.


I think you (just like the IRGC) don't know the difference between assembly and invention. I am still waiting for you to show this forum the HQ of Texas Instrument building in Isfahan. Invention would be something like an iPhone: engineered and top to bottom the first smart phone. Taking a motorcylce engine from China and a chip from TI (or Chinese copy) is an assembly.



Shawnee said:


> Patents for balloons and idea and projects that were aborted per owner due to failure do not define building a successful UCAV.
> 
> If you made UCAV prior to Iranian 1980s, share the evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not waiting for your reply. It is worthless.
> 
> I leave clarification for others.


All evidence you have shared is an old VHS video which given the spare time you have of making images of shirtless Putin on a dragon, you have doctored up. If you did build it first that all Iranian allies would have been winning against its enemies since then. Iran Iraq war was a draw. Syria shivers at Israel and list goes on.

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## kingQamaR

khansaheeb said:


> Europe is one step closer to a nuclear graveyard.
> 
> View attachment 890639



The Rubbish Russian army is why Putin and Russian State TV resort to constant claptrap about nuclear armageddon.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586347481532882952


----------



## kingQamaR

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 890595
> 
> 
> IRGC officer, Brigadier general Sina from Kherson front will directly call Putin tonight.
> 
> Lots of butts on fire mostly outside Ukraine.



Why so many Putin admirers? He's an isolated fool. No tactician starts a war that they can't win. Worse still, he can't admit his errors, so he ploughs on regardless. It takes a great man to admit his mistakes. Putin is not a great man and Russian's one day will learn the truth.

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586347481532882952


“Dagny Taggart” .. Does this twitter account somehow bear witness to the truth, or is it just some random anti western conspiracy theorist retweeting russian propaganda?


----------



## khansaheeb

kingQamaR said:


> Why so many Putin admirers? He's an isolated fool. No tactician starts a war that they can't win. Worse still, he can't admit his errors, so he ploughs on regardless. It takes a great man to admit his mistakes. Putin is not a great man and Russian's one day will learn the truth.


So Whole of NATO are fools because they couldn't win Afghanistan?

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## Dalit

Very very nice. Such immense pleasure. Such satisfaction. Good to see Russia continue the onslaught. Now with the grain deal gone into the gutter we can safely continue with conquering more Ukrainian land.

Papa America should request Bajwa for soldiers. Perhaps we might have a few battalions willing to serve papa America.

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## Reashot Xigwin

4 ships of the Russian Black Sea fleet were struck by Ukrainian drones on Sevastopol naval base.

A frigate (Admiral Makarov) & minesweeper (Ivan Golubet) ship are confirmed sunk.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586363908071489536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586358395933970433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586269415192027141
Russia now lost 2 flagship from Ukrainian attack

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> 4 ships of the Russian Black Sea fleet were struck by Ukrainian drones on Sevastopol naval base.
> 
> A frigate (Admiral Makarov) & minesweeper (Ivan Golubet) ship are confirmed sunk.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586363908071489536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586358395933970433
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586269415192027141
> Russia now lost 2 flagship from Ukrainian attack



Mark my words. Russia will avenge the losses. It will be an eye for an entire body. If Ukraine believes that it can win by sinking a few frigates it is sorely mistaken. Expect Russian response to be brutal and collosal. Ukraine is living a delusional lie. It's sponsors are stoking a fire that will be impossible to extinguish.

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## Dariush the Great

Dalit said:


> Mark my words. Russia will avenge the losses. It will be an eye for an entire body. If Ukraine believes that it can win by sinking a few frigates it is sorely mistaken. Expect Russian response to be brutal and collosal.



Proper revenge would be full blitzkrieg and deploying millions of soldiers marching on to Kyiv. Russia has been on the receiving end in the past months. They will be lucky if they do not lose Kherson.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> Mark my words. Russia will avenge the losses. It will be an eye for an entire body. If Ukraine believes that it can win by sinking a few frigates it is sorely mistaken. Expect Russian response to be brutal and collosal.


Oh no 🙀 the rusky might target civilian infrastructure next... Oh wait they already did.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586409892545372165

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586422264026767366


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Make the Black Sea Turkish Again 🇹🇷


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586464822719299585

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Make the Black Sea Turkish Again 🇹🇷
> View attachment 890658



LOL as if Turkey stands on US/EU side.


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, this Russia army is scrapping the bottom of the barrel. I remember I was watching a parade drill for new Russian recruit being deployed to Ukraine, most of these people aren't fit. They are at least 4 sizes over the regular uniform size. And their equipment are sub-standard.
> 
> It's pretty much obvious to us that Russia has not even prepared to someday reinstate the draft, equipment has not been stored properly and there are no surplus or surge stock. There are reports that local unit raid airsoft store for equipment. Sometime even recruit themselves had to fork out thousands of ruble to buy them.
> 
> In the US, even our selective service system is not implemented, we still have equipment surge in case for a draft, we have around 300,000 set of rifle and equipment (Granted most of them are M16A2 and 20 years old equipment like the one I had used in my war in Iraq like IBA without side panel.) So they can arm and trained those recruit at least to a point where new purchase and materialised. That had not been done in Russia. So if anything is being send to war in Ukraine by Russia, they aren't coming back alive. That's not because of they are white Russian or Afghan, it's because they don't have enough equipment.



I was never expecting RUAF to declare mobilisation, AND not ban people from leaving Russia.

They actually lost more military age men fleeing to Dubai than to Ukraine.

So RUAF got only so so people from rural Russia.


So I am downgrading my March predictions to at most 1.6 million from 2.5 millions upper estimate, and that in case of some military economy being instated.

And I can't say Russia will be able to instate military economy now. Military economy needs advanced preparedness just like a mobilisation. The later you introduce it, the less would be its effectiveness.

For example, how would Russians move, and prepare lodging for at least a part of people they want to enroll into military economy? They have trouble lodging, and moving enough soldiers as of now, and if they will go military economy, it will be even worse.

Next summer will be the most interesting period to watch how Russian economy will fare.

I believe Moscow is well aware of economic ruin from mobilisation, thus they try hard to decouple military mobilisation, from economic one, and this is why they kept borders open, and have not put any serious restraints on monetary system.


----------



## Dalit

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586464822719299585



This is escalating fast. This war has reached to a point of no return.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586421386721263616


Dalit said:


> This is escalating fast. This war has reached to a point of no return.



I do believe Ukraine will fight to the last man, woman, or child. However, I do believe Russia will come on top due to much bigger population than Ukraine.


----------



## Dalit

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586421386721263616
> 
> 
> I do believe Ukraine will fight to the last man, woman, or child. However, I do believe Russia will come on top due to much bigger population than Ukraine.



I am sure the Ukrainians will. This war has only one logical outcome. As you rightly predict, Russia on top with a lot of annexed Ukrainian territory.

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## Paul2

While I will keep 1.6m as an upper estimate, we now know that RU has no ways of blocking routes for its draftees to run on its southern borders.

If they will declare a total mobilisation, 2x-4x times the number of people being mobilised will try to run.

Now we know, on the paper they got 190k-220k draftees now, with most of them being stuck in the bases far away from the front due to jammed logistics capacity.

And that at least 800k Russians ran away permanently, with upper estimate being 1.6m Russian military age men leaving the country, with most of them being upper economic classes.

Russian most realistic plan for a more complete mobilisation would cause millions of men to flee, and nuke the remaining Russian economy — it will be at that time when food, and other basic civilian necessities will become an issue for RU.

Most likely, they will be treading a fine line in between nuking the economy, and real needs in troop counts. My guess 400k-600k will be the peak of Russian manpower thrown at war effort.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Dalit said:


> I am sure the Ukrainians will. This war has only one logical outcome. As you rightly predict, Russia on top with a lot of annexed Ukrainian territory.



Obviously, if Ukraine fights to the last man, woman, or child, then Russia annex the entire Ukraine as there won't be a single Ukrainian left in Ukraine.



Paul2 said:


> While I will keep 1.6m as an upper estimate, we now know that RU has no ways of blocking routes for its draftees to run on its southern borders.
> 
> If they will declare a total mobilisation, 2x-4x times the number of people being mobilised will try to run.
> 
> Now we know, on the paper they got 190k-220k draftees now, with most of them being stuck in the bases far away from the front due to jammed logistics capacity.
> 
> And that at least 800k Russians ran away permanently, with upper estimate being 1.6m Russian military age men leaving the country, with most of them being upper economic classes.
> 
> Russian most realistic plan for a more complete mobilisation would cause millions of men to flee, and nuke the remaining Russian economy — it will be at that time when food, and other basic civilian necessities will become an issue for RU.



If millions of Russians leave, then millions of Chinese come. The land is good. Cold. But good. I remember after WW2 lots of Turks settled in Germany.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 890595
> 
> 
> IRGC officer, Brigadier general Sina from Kherson front will directly call Putin tonight.
> 
> Lots of butts on fire mostly outside Ukraine.




The keyword here is butts on fire. lol



Reashot Xigwin said:


> 4 ships of the Russian Black Sea fleet were struck by Ukrainian drones on Sevastopol naval base.
> 
> A frigate (Admiral Makarov) & minesweeper (Ivan Golubet) ship are confirmed sunk.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586363908071489536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586358395933970433
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586269415192027141
> Russia now lost 2 flagship from Ukrainian attack




Proof is needed or it didn't happen.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586321453544181762


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586417900222488576


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586414503704424450
UK is asking for Russian nukes, I guess.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586197085178978306


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The keyword here is butts on fire. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof is needed or it didn't happen.


There's literally a drone footage before it smashed to a frigate (Admiral Makarov)

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Shawnee

Putin will wait for Trump come back. He will be a lot softer on him.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586332806841569280


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586487634033278976


----------



## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> Mark my words. Russia will avenge the losses. It will be an eye for an entire body. If Ukraine believes that it can win by sinking a few frigates it is sorely mistaken. Expect Russian response to be brutal and collosal. Ukraine is living a delusional lie. It's sponsors are stoking a fire that will be impossible to extinguish.


What nonsense, same old Russia will make them pay. Been hearing that for months and all Russia does is loose more territory


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Shawnee said:


> Putin will wait for Trump come back. He will be a lot softer on him.



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia is far more profitable than Ukraine. Trump is a businessman. For a businessman, the only important thing is profit. Who do you think Trump will favor? Russia or Ukraine?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586290478844350464


----------



## F-22Raptor

Seeing a lot of reports the Admiral Makarov has been sunk

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586487634033278976



Because of kamikaze drone attacks, eventually Ukraine run out of long range SAM. Only MANPADS would remain.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586291732148371457

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586393629106511878


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> LOL as if Turkey stands on US/EU side.


Erdogan want Turan guess which country's is blocking its way?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586092461641768960
 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586147788374827008

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BHAN85

Something expected since the first day of the deal:









Russia halts Ukraine Black Sea grain exports, Biden outraged


The defense ministry said it stopped its participation in the U.N.-brokered deal after attacks on ships in Crimea, dealing a blow to a three-month agreement aimed at easing a global squeeze on grain supplies.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586317008101994499

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Shawnee

Have you heard of TB2 in the past few months??

It was supposed to change the games.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Shawnee said:


> Have you heard of TB2 in the past few months??
> 
> It was supposed to change the games.


Ukraine still in the fight ain't it?

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## zartosht

That Guy said:


> Just a reminder, Tucker Carlson admitted in court that he's a liar and only idiots take him seriously.
> 
> If people take him seriously, they're by Tucker Carlson's own standards, complete morons.



Hes by faaaaaar the most reliable mainstream american voice. Highest rated by a wide margin.

But forget all that. You can Refute his points not attack his supposed character short comings.

If hes saying something thats a lie point it out. If your just gonna call him a liar and based on that wrong opinion dismiss his points without refute shows how intellectually bankrupt you are. Pathetic

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khansaheeb

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586464822719299585


Chechens warming up for war:-


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586409892545372165


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586524857495212032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586526772027428866

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586333489850331136


----------



## dbc

khansaheeb said:


> Chechens warming up for war:-


planet of the apes?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary



Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


>


A cruse on Putin and his zombie army.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Ukraine still in the fight ain't it?


Ignore the wet dreams of keyboard commandos here. Everything is fun and games when it's not your own blood being spilt. So much death, so much destruction, the planned and orchestrated use of illegal force against a smaller, weaker and largely peaceful country to what end?

In the end Russia and it's might army, the image, the prestige, the ego has been neutered in Ukraine, and Russian blood is fertiliser for sunflowers on the fields of Ukraine. 

*War: a massacre of people who don't know each other for the profit of people who know each other but don't massacre each other* - Paul Valery .

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> Nigga, Turkey only wants the best for itself. For you to think that you can somehow benefit in the process is foolhardy. Not so long ago you guys were cheering for Erdogan's dismissal at the hands of dusgruntled Turkish soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> You are right about one thing. Now it is our time to lay back and grab some popcorn. Do I feel any guilt and remorse in doing so? To quote the words of Imran Khan. Absolutely not. My people have suffered at the hands of these powers that were killing and exploiting the peoples. These Westerners have destroyed natives. Plundered and robbed entire contintents. Not to mention the recent wars against "Islamic terrorism".
> 
> To quote a friend. A bunch of Ukrainians were working at his house and the war was being discussed. They asked the friend for his opinion against evil Russia. He laughed and replied where the outrage is for other sufferers of this world. It is a taste of own medicine. Many reserve the right to become keyboard warriors and enjoy this this shit fest.


& what's best for turkey (erdogan) is to give them much needed Lebensraum. Russia doesn't need that much land after all.


----------



## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> & what's best for turkey (erdogan) is to give them much needed Lebensraum. Russia doesn't need that much land after all.



Russia will get whatever it wants and deems fit. This is not a decision for you to make.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> Europe is one step closer to a nuclear graveyard.
> 
> View attachment 890639


The opposite is true.
More nukes in Europe makes Europe safer.
Europe needs short and medium range missiles to match Russia arsenals. It’s not fair Putin has, it but we haven’t. The imbalance makes Europe very vulnerable.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

Viet said:


> The opposite is true.
> More nukes in Europe makes Europe safer.
> Europe needs short and medium range missiles to match Russia arsenals. It’s not fair Putin has, it but we haven’t.



LOL you sound like a kid who complaints to his mother that other kids in the neighborhood have candies and you don't. More nukes in the European continent means disaster. You know that, right?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Dalit said:


> LOL you sound like a kid who complaints to his mother that other kids in the streets have candies and you don't. More nukes in the European continent means disaster. You know that, right?


Candy or nuke is the same side of the coin my friend. I am pretty sure Putin will piss off if Europe can destroy Russia in 30 minutes as Russia threatens do it by every occasion.
Learn history. it was the arms race that brought down USSR. Same will bring down Russia.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> Candy or nuke is the same side of the coin my friend. I am pretty sure Putin will piss off if Europe can destroy Russia in 30 minutes as Russia threatens do it by every occasion.
> Learn history. it was the arms race that brought down USSR. Same will bring down Russia.



Candy and nukes are the same side of the coin and they call us keyboard warriors.


----------



## Viet

12,000 Russian Troops Were Supposed To Defend Kaliningrad. Then They Went To Ukraine To Die.​David Axe
Forbes Staff
I write about ships, planes, tanks, drones, missiles and satellites.
Follow
Oct 27, 2022,07:01pm EDT






The 11th Army Corps in 2017.
RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY PHOTO

Six years ago, the Russian navy formed a new army corps whose job it would be to defend Kaliningrad, Russia’s geographically separate outpost on the Baltic Sea between Poland and Lithuania.

This year, when the war in Ukraine began to go badly for Russia, the Kremlin yanked the 11th Army Corps from Kaliningrad and sent it into Ukraine. Where the Ukrainian army quickly destroyed it.






© Foto: REUTERS/Clodagh Kilcoyne

The formation, deployment and destruction of the 11th Army Corps tell a story that’s bigger than the tragic tale of Russia’s war in Ukraine. The corps, sandwiched between two NATO countries along a strategic sea, was supposed to give Russian forces an advantage in a global war.

Instead, it became cannon fodder for a Ukrainian army that, on paper, was weaker than the Russian army was. Now Kaliningrad is all but defenseless, and the threat the oblast’s troops once posed to NATO … has evaporated.

The 11th Army Corps isn’t really a new formation. It’s a new grouping of existing formations under a single headquarters that itself answers to the Russian navy’s Baltic Fleet. The corps oversees a motorized division, a separate motorized regiment, artillery, rockets, air-defense troops and supporting units.

Before Russia widened its war in Ukraine starting in late February, there were no fewer than 12,000 Russian troops in Kaliningrad with around 100 T-72 tanks, a couple hundred BTR fighting vehicles, Msta-S howitzers and BM-27 and BM-30 rocket-launchers. The 11th Army Corps oversaw most of these forces.

Looming on the western border of Lithuania, one of the weakest NATO member states, the 11th Army Corps was the anvil for a possible Russian invasion of the former Soviet republics Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The hammer was the 18,000-strong ground force in western Russia on the eastern border of the Baltic states.


NATO warily eyed the Kaliningrad buildup. “Kaliningrad certainly, historically, has been a place where we've been very attentive to the dynamics and the delicate regional situation,” a U.S. defense official told reporters in June.

Those dynamics radically changed after February. The Kremlin committed 80% of its ground forces to a wider invasion of Ukraine—and promptly lost many of them in a doomed bid to capture Kyiv.


Strung out along the roads leading to the capital, the poorly led, under-supplied Russian battalions, brigades and divisions were vulnerable to Ukraine’s artillery, drones and infantry teams hauling precision-guided anti-tank missiles.

After just a month of bitter fighting, the Russians retreated from Kyiv. Estimates vary, but it’s possible they suffered 50,000 killed and wounded by the time the front lines stabilized in May. The Russians at the time held the strategic port of Kherson in southern Ukraine and were on the outskirts of the free city of Kharkiv, 25 miles from the border with Russia in northeastern Ukraine.


But Russian forces were fragile. And getting more fragile as the Ukrainian army—rearmed with American and European artillery and rockets—began plucking at Russian supply lines. Desperate for fresh troops, the Kremlin mobilized the 11th Army Corps, moving it by ship and plane to Belgorod in southern Russia, then into Ukraine near Kharkiv.

Three months of grinding combat sapped the corps’ strength. Reuters got its hands on some of the 11th Army Corps’ paperwork. A spreadsheet dated August 30, right before a major Ukrainian counteroffensive, indicated the corps was at 71% of its full strength. Some battalions, however, were down to just a tenth of their original manpower.

It got worse for the corps. In late August and early September, the Ukrainian armed forces launched twin counteroffensives east of Kharkiv and north of Kherson. The Kharkiv operation, involving a dozen eager Ukrainian brigades, exposed profound weaknesses in the Russian forces in the area, including the 11th Army Corps.

Tens of thousands of Russians fled, surrendered or died in place as Ukrainian troops liberated a thousand square miles of Kharkiv Oblast in a heady two weeks. The 11th Army Corps suffered more than most Russian formations in the region. In late September, the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C., described the corps as “severely battered.”

That may have been an understatement. The Ukrainian general staff concluded the corps lost 200 vehicles and half of its troops in the counteroffensive.

It’s possible the 11th Army Corps survives. If so, it almost certainly will require many months to rest, re-equip and induct draftees in order to regain even a fraction of its former strength.


The deployment and subsequent destruction of the 11th Army Corps is a tragedy for the men who suffered and died under its command—and a terrible blow for the Russian war effort in Ukraine.

But the implications extend across Europe. The 11th Army Corps was supposed to defend Kaliningrad and threaten NATO’s eastern front. Now it can do neither.


Follow me on Twitter. Check out my website or some of my other work here. Send me a secure tip.


David Axe

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## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> The opposite is true.
> More nukes in Europe makes Europe safer.
> Europe needs short and medium range missiles to match Russia arsenals. It’s not fair Putin has, it but we haven’t. The imbalance makes Europe very vulnerable.


So every country should have them to make them feel safer? MAD MAD world.


----------



## Dalit

Viet said:


> 12,000 Russian Troops Were Supposed To Defend Kaliningrad. Then They Went To Ukraine To Die.​David Axe
> Forbes Staff
> I write about ships, planes, tanks, drones, missiles and satellites.
> Follow
> Oct 27, 2022,07:01pm EDT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 11th Army Corps in 2017.
> RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY PHOTO
> 
> Six years ago, the Russian navy formed a new army corps whose job it would be to defend Kaliningrad, Russia’s geographically separate outpost on the Baltic Sea between Poland and Lithuania.
> 
> This year, when the war in Ukraine began to go badly for Russia, the Kremlin yanked the 11th Army Corps from Kaliningrad and sent it into Ukraine. Where the Ukrainian army quickly destroyed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Foto: REUTERS/Clodagh Kilcoyne
> 
> The formation, deployment and destruction of the 11th Army Corps tell a story that’s bigger than the tragic tale of Russia’s war in Ukraine. The corps, sandwiched between two NATO countries along a strategic sea, was supposed to give Russian forces an advantage in a global war.
> 
> Instead, it became cannon fodder for a Ukrainian army that, on paper, was weaker than the Russian army was. Now Kaliningrad is all but defenseless, and the threat the oblast’s troops once posed to NATO … has evaporated.
> 
> The 11th Army Corps isn’t really a new formation. It’s a new grouping of existing formations under a single headquarters that itself answers to the Russian navy’s Baltic Fleet. The corps oversees a motorized division, a separate motorized regiment, artillery, rockets, air-defense troops and supporting units.
> 
> Before Russia widened its war in Ukraine starting in late February, there were no fewer than 12,000 Russian troops in Kaliningrad with around 100 T-72 tanks, a couple hundred BTR fighting vehicles, Msta-S howitzers and BM-27 and BM-30 rocket-launchers. The 11th Army Corps oversaw most of these forces.
> 
> Looming on the western border of Lithuania, one of the weakest NATO member states, the 11th Army Corps was the anvil for a possible Russian invasion of the former Soviet republics Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The hammer was the 18,000-strong ground force in western Russia on the eastern border of the Baltic states.
> 
> 
> NATO warily eyed the Kaliningrad buildup. “Kaliningrad certainly, historically, has been a place where we've been very attentive to the dynamics and the delicate regional situation,” a U.S. defense official told reporters in June.
> 
> Those dynamics radically changed after February. The Kremlin committed 80% of its ground forces to a wider invasion of Ukraine—and promptly lost many of them in a doomed bid to capture Kyiv.
> 
> 
> Strung out along the roads leading to the capital, the poorly led, under-supplied Russian battalions, brigades and divisions were vulnerable to Ukraine’s artillery, drones and infantry teams hauling precision-guided anti-tank missiles.
> 
> After just a month of bitter fighting, the Russians retreated from Kyiv. Estimates vary, but it’s possible they suffered 50,000 killed and wounded by the time the front lines stabilized in May. The Russians at the time held the strategic port of Kherson in southern Ukraine and were on the outskirts of the free city of Kharkiv, 25 miles from the border with Russia in northeastern Ukraine.
> 
> 
> But Russian forces were fragile. And getting more fragile as the Ukrainian army—rearmed with American and European artillery and rockets—began plucking at Russian supply lines. Desperate for fresh troops, the Kremlin mobilized the 11th Army Corps, moving it by ship and plane to Belgorod in southern Russia, then into Ukraine near Kharkiv.
> 
> Three months of grinding combat sapped the corps’ strength. Reuters got its hands on some of the 11th Army Corps’ paperwork. A spreadsheet dated August 30, right before a major Ukrainian counteroffensive, indicated the corps was at 71% of its full strength. Some battalions, however, were down to just a tenth of their original manpower.
> 
> It got worse for the corps. In late August and early September, the Ukrainian armed forces launched twin counteroffensives east of Kharkiv and north of Kherson. The Kharkiv operation, involving a dozen eager Ukrainian brigades, exposed profound weaknesses in the Russian forces in the area, including the 11th Army Corps.
> 
> Tens of thousands of Russians fled, surrendered or died in place as Ukrainian troops liberated a thousand square miles of Kharkiv Oblast in a heady two weeks. The 11th Army Corps suffered more than most Russian formations in the region. In late September, the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C., described the corps as “severely battered.”
> 
> That may have been an understatement. The Ukrainian general staff concluded the corps lost 200 vehicles and half of its troops in the counteroffensive.
> 
> It’s possible the 11th Army Corps survives. If so, it almost certainly will require many months to rest, re-equip and induct draftees in order to regain even a fraction of its former strength.
> 
> 
> The deployment and subsequent destruction of the 11th Army Corps is a tragedy for the men who suffered and died under its command—and a terrible blow for the Russian war effort in Ukraine.
> 
> But the implications extend across Europe. The 11th Army Corps was supposed to defend Kaliningrad and threaten NATO’s eastern front. Now it can do neither.
> 
> 
> Follow me on Twitter. Check out my website or some of my other work here. Send me a secure tip.
> 
> 
> David Axe



When American troops land in brown lands it is all for spreading democracy. When Russian troops land in Ukraine it is a death wish. Nice.


----------



## kingQamaR

khansaheeb said:


> So Whole of NATO are fools because they couldn't win Afghanistan?



No, the US didn’t ask NATO to join the 2001 invasion. They accepted only the Brits as their allies.

NATO was charged by the UN to take command of the ISAF peacekeeping and rebuilding mission. Initially it was there to support the new Afghani government, but later it took part in the larger war against the Taliban insurgency.

The Russians have better reason in Ukrainian love to hear it


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586454515863019520
Russia should either shut up or take down UK's military and/or critical infrastructure. UK's aggressive moves are very clear. Now either match it or shut up. What kind of sissy complaints are they issuing?

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Haha Haha:
2


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## sammuel

~​​Sevastopol: Unmanned surface vehicles hit Admiral Makarov, flagship of Russian Black Sea Fleet​







At least three ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, including the Admiral Makarov flagship, were damaged as a result of the unmanned surface vessel [USV] attack on 29 October.

*Source*: GeoConfirmed, a volunteer-managed outlet mapping the war in Ukraine based on geolocations, on Twitter

*Details*: GeoConfirmed investigators have analysed footage from the unmanned surface vessels [USVs are speedboat-size vessels that can pack hundreds of pounds of explosives – ed.], which roamed the harbour and the sea near Sevastopol.

The investigators released footage of an attack on an Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate. They concluded that the Admiral Makarov is the only one that matches this description in the Black Sea. The footage stops when the USV hits the vessel and explodes.









Sevastopol: Unmanned surface vehicles hit Admiral Makarov, flagship of Russian Black Sea Fleet


UKRAINSKA PRAVDA - SUNDAY, 30 OCTOBER 2022, 07:10 At least three ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, including the Admiral Makarov flagship, were damaged as a result of the unmanned surface vessel [USV] attack on 29 October.




news.yahoo.com


----------



## DF41

Dalit said:


> Britain. An epitome of evil. Now we supposedly have a pious Asian leading the island who represents all the brown kids LOL A nigga who came to power through undemocratic means and represents the richest of the rich.



https://****/rocknrollgeopolitics/5364 

_***** = t dot me*_



🥁🥁🥁⚡️🏴‍☠️🇺🇦🇷🇺 MoD on Today's Black Sea Terrorist Attack⚡️

⚠️ Today at 4.20 am, the Kiev regime carried out a terrorist attack against the ships of the Black Sea Fleet and civilian ships that were on the outer and inner roadsteads of the Sevastopol base.

◽️The attack involved nine unmanned aerial vehicles and seven autonomous maritime drones.

💥The prompt measures taken by the forces of the Black Sea Fleet destroyed all air targets.

💥When repulsing the terrorist attack on the outer roadstead of Sevastopol, four marine unmanned vehicles were annihilated by shipborne weapons and maritime aviation of the Black Sea Fleet, and three more were destroyed on the inner roadstead.

◽️Minor damage was received by the sea minesweeper Ivan Golubets as well as the floating net boom in Yuzhnaya Bay.

◽️It should be emphasised that the ships of the Black Sea Fleet that were subjected to the terrorist attack are involved in ensuring the security of the ‘grain corridor’ as part of an international initiative to export agricultural products from Ukrainian ports.

◻️The preparation of this terrorist act and the training of military personnel of 73rd Marine Special Operations Center were carried out under supervision of British specialists in the city of Ochakov, Nikolayev region in Ukraine.

◽️*According to the available information, representatives of this unit from the British Navy were involved in plotting, organising, and implementation of the terrorist attack in the Baltic Sea on 26 September this year to blow up the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 gas pipelines.*

****/sitreports /@mod_russia_en/
Join SITREP🔺Map Reports - Top Videos - Analyses

https://****/Slavyangrad/17383 
_***** = t dot me*_

🥁🥁🥁💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺

❗️Europe begs Russia to reverse its decision to suspend the grain deal. 

Less than a day later, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell asked Russia to change its decision on grain. 

We await the response of our authorities. 😎

Afraid of high price of food, in Europe? Well, you should be...

Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
https://****/+PUg0rQrZdiw4YWFh
@Slavyangrad
Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy, and Analysis, Expert Community


=========================================================

https://****/Slavyangrad/17399 

🥁🥁🥁💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
Judging by the hysteria in Kiev and Washington regarding the withdrawal from the "grain deal" and the demands to return to it, we are doing everything right. "Suspension" must be permanent. Obviously, the "grain deal" in its current form is unprofitable for us and beneficial for our enemies. And such transactions should be promptly thrown into the trash.

Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
https://****/+PUg0rQrZdiw4YWFh
@Slavyangrad
Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy, and Analysis, Expert Community

=======================================================

https://****/CyberspecNews/11742
🖕🖕🖕 

⚡️Smuggling of ammunition via the "grain deal" ships

---

ships loaded with grain left Ukrainian ports, unloaded at the destination port and went back to Ukraine supposedly empty. Allegedly...

In fact, the vessels involved in the grain deal, after passing the Bosphorus on the way back, were loaded with ammunition at 10-20% of the maximum deadweight directly at sea from Bulgarian and / or Romanian vessels. 

Why by 10-20%? Yes, so that the appearance (precipitation) does not betray their loading. And safely returned to the Ukrainian port, where ammunition was unloaded at night!

In order to reliably simulate the zero load of the ship, dear Western partners and their Ukrainian colleagues even repainted the cargo stamps on the sides of the ships that participated in the" deal", raising them higher on board!

Also, the vessels were bunkered with water and fuel at a minimum, just to reach the Odessa ports. Everything to save displacement for the sake of projectiles.

How much ammo could be transferred with such restrictions?
Enough for the AFU!

‼️A small bulk carrier with a deadweight of 20 thousand tons brought back 2000 tons of ammunition, and this is about 30 railway cars with ammunition or 3 railway trains!

https://****/odnajdi_v_odesse/1228

Reactions: Like Like:
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## 1ndy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586454515863019520
> Russia should either shut up or take down UK's military and/or critical infrastructure. UK's aggressive moves are very clear. Now either match it or shut up. What kind of sissy complaints are they issuing?


Russia will fire some more flying scooter and that's it.



DF41 said:


> https://****/rocknrollgeopolitics/5364
> 
> _***** = t dot me*_
> 
> 
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁⚡️🏴‍☠️🇺🇦🇷🇺 MoD on Today's Black Sea Terrorist Attack⚡️
> 
> ⚠️ Today at 4.20 am, the Kiev regime carried out a terrorist attack against the ships of the Black Sea Fleet and civilian ships that were on the outer and inner roadsteads of the Sevastopol base.
> 
> ◽️The attack involved nine unmanned aerial vehicles and seven autonomous maritime drones.
> 
> 💥The prompt measures taken by the forces of the Black Sea Fleet destroyed all air targets.
> 
> 💥When repulsing the terrorist attack on the outer roadstead of Sevastopol, four marine unmanned vehicles were annihilated by shipborne weapons and maritime aviation of the Black Sea Fleet, and three more were destroyed on the inner roadstead.
> 
> ◽️Minor damage was received by the sea minesweeper Ivan Golubets as well as the floating net boom in Yuzhnaya Bay.
> 
> ◽️It should be emphasised that the ships of the Black Sea Fleet that were subjected to the terrorist attack are involved in ensuring the security of the ‘grain corridor’ as part of an international initiative to export agricultural products from Ukrainian ports.
> 
> ◻️The preparation of this terrorist act and the training of military personnel of 73rd Marine Special Operations Center were carried out under supervision of British specialists in the city of Ochakov, Nikolayev region in Ukraine.
> 
> ◽️*According to the available information, representatives of this unit from the British Navy were involved in plotting, organising, and implementation of the terrorist attack in the Baltic Sea on 26 September this year to blow up the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 gas pipelines.*
> 
> ****/sitreports /@mod_russia_en/
> Join SITREP🔺Map Reports - Top Videos - Analyses
> 
> https://****/Slavyangrad/17383
> _***** = t dot me*_
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
> 
> ❗️Europe begs Russia to reverse its decision to suspend the grain deal.
> 
> Less than a day later, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell asked Russia to change its decision on grain.
> 
> We await the response of our authorities. 😎
> 
> Afraid of high price of food, in Europe? Well, you should be...
> 
> Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
> https://****/+PUg0rQrZdiw4YWFh
> @Slavyangrad
> Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy, and Analysis, Expert Community
> 
> 
> =========================================================
> 
> https://****/Slavyangrad/17399
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
> Judging by the hysteria in Kiev and Washington regarding the withdrawal from the "grain deal" and the demands to return to it, we are doing everything right. "Suspension" must be permanent. Obviously, the "grain deal" in its current form is unprofitable for us and beneficial for our enemies. And such transactions should be promptly thrown into the trash.
> 
> Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
> https://****/+PUg0rQrZdiw4YWFh
> @Slavyangrad
> Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy, and Analysis, Expert Community
> 
> =======================================================
> 
> https://****/CyberspecNews/11742
> 🖕🖕🖕
> 
> ⚡️Smuggling of ammunition via the "grain deal" ships
> 
> ---
> 
> ships loaded with grain left Ukrainian ports, unloaded at the destination port and went back to Ukraine supposedly empty. Allegedly...
> 
> In fact, the vessels involved in the grain deal, after passing the Bosphorus on the way back, were loaded with ammunition at 10-20% of the maximum deadweight directly at sea from Bulgarian and / or Romanian vessels.
> 
> Why by 10-20%? Yes, so that the appearance (precipitation) does not betray their loading. And safely returned to the Ukrainian port, where ammunition was unloaded at night!
> 
> In order to reliably simulate the zero load of the ship, dear Western partners and their Ukrainian colleagues even repainted the cargo stamps on the sides of the ships that participated in the" deal", raising them higher on board!
> 
> Also, the vessels were bunkered with water and fuel at a minimum, just to reach the Odessa ports. Everything to save displacement for the sake of projectiles.
> 
> How much ammo could be transferred with such restrictions?
> Enough for the AFU!
> 
> ‼️A small bulk carrier with a deadweight of 20 thousand tons brought back 2000 tons of ammunition, and this is about 30 railway cars with ammunition or 3 railway trains!
> 
> https://****/odnajdi_v_odesse/1228


terrorist attack against floating school... Not in a very distant future, China will accuse US of terror attack against floating casino.

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## jhungary

Moriro said:


> You can relate this with Kashmir , Syria and Palestine. Different people with similar suffering.


Wars are horrible, those who seen it first hand, those who experience it first hand will never forget the trauma that one has to go thru in war. It's like if you hit a cat with your car, you probably will never forget about that. That will burn in your memory and sear thru everything you do. And the hardest part is, you cannot unsee what you have seen, and that's gonna stay in your mind forever. 

War can be facinating to watch from afar, but up close and personal, that's another story, I don't cheer for war, having been in a few battle myself, nobody had seen what I see and did what I did will cheer for war. Because war victim can speak with a common language, and that's violence.

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## Muhammed45

Surprise, Mr Joker is back with plenty of Photoshop works

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## MeFishToo

Muhammed45 said:


> Surprise, Mr Joker is back with plenty of Photoshop works
> 
> View attachment 890725
> View attachment 890726
> View attachment 890727
> View attachment 890728
> View attachment 890729
> View attachment 890730


Its just the optics cheating you. The windspan is 2,5 meters and the angle makes the drone look shorter than its own wingspan.

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## DF41

https://****/NovichokRossiya/18258
😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🥳🥳🥳

In the Iranian Mohajer-6 drone, they found ... a component of Ukrainian production - a representative of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense in a commentary to the Military Television of Ukraine. At the same time, intelligence officials say that these components were "in the public domain" and anyone could buy them. This statement is due to the fact that there is an arms embargo against Iran. And the United States and Israel are watching its implementation very zealously. Therefore, if it suddenly turns out that our component could not be in any free access ... I'm even afraid to imagine what a scandal will be.

👉 Ukrainian claim

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586678489536684032

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> Europe is one step closer to a nuclear graveyard.
> 
> View attachment 890639


If you really believed that, you would leave Europe.
Until You do, such comments are just hot air.

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## Viet

The Russia invasion army suffers the biggest casualty per day ever since the start of the war. 950 men.








Ukrainische Soldaten attackieren Stellungen Russlands in der Region um Cherson. © BULENT KILIC/AFP









Verluste für Russland im Krieg: Ukraine schießt Hubschrauber und Drohnen ab


Russland erleidet im Ukraine-Krieg weiter schwere Verluste. Die Ukraine hat neun Siedlungen in Luhansk zurückerobert. Der News-Ticker.




www.fr.de

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586678489536684032



Yep - taking their loot bags back home.....


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586651438373081089


jhungary said:


>



These people speak Russian. Makes no difference for them if they live in Russia or Ukraine. BBC propaganda is so lame.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586693531099451392


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586671234070315009

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586683196011339776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586677339789955072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586661139940888576


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586695343479070723

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586696589426442241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586699433894445056

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> When American troops land in brown lands it is all for spreading democracy. When Russian troops land in Ukraine it is a death wish. Nice.


ok yes you can argue the US brings democracy to the country by destroying it. however they have no intenttion to annex it. one day they will leave eventually. while the russians don´t bring anything democracy, they just want to annex and steal everything. what is worse? if you ask me then both are bad.
by the way, be warned, the "z" symbol is banned in Germany and many countries elsewhere. Don´t try to do it. a german court just sentenced a men to 4,000 euros.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> however they have no intenttion to annex it



The US annexed Puerto Rico, Philippines, Guam from Spain. To say the US does not annex is incorrect. The US can and do annex.



Viet said:


> one day they will leave eventually



Never left Syria. Never left Iraq. Your theory is highly hypothetical at best.



Viet said:


> while the russians don´t bring anything democracy, they just want to annex and steal everything



False. Read my thread. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russ...ng-the-city-back-to-its-soviet-hayday.753823/



Viet said:


> ok yes you can argue the US brings democracy to the country by destroying it. however they have no intenttion to annex it. one day they will leave eventually. while the russians don´t bring anything democracy, they just want to annex and steal everything. what is worse? if you ask me then both are bad.
> by the way, be warned, the "z" symbol is banned in Germany and many countries elsewhere. Don´t try to do it. a german court just sentenced a men to 4,000 euros.
> 
> 
> View attachment 890772



Z is a letter. You cannot ban it. Z stands for zapad. Western military district. There is also V. V stands for vostok. Eastern military district.


----------



## zartosht

Viet said:


> ok yes you can argue the US brings democracy to the country by destroying it. however they have no intenttion to annex it. one day they will leave eventually. while the russians don´t bring anything democracy, they just want to annex and steal everything. what is worse? if you ask me then both are bad.



The US genocided and annexed all native territories

They then annexed territory from canada (its not a coincidence their borders are near perfect lines)

The US annexed a huge portion of mexican territory which includes california and texas. 

If a country was bordering the US(say mexico) and became a foriegn outpost to attack the US. I guarantee you with 110% certainty US would have genocided and annexed a major portion of it (again)

The US believes it owns the entire americas (monroe doctrine).

It thinks all the middle east oil is “our oil that god accidentally put in their lands”.

And will aggresively attack and i stall puppet regimes the earth over. They are literally saying openly they want to turn the whole world into a western vassalage(spreading “democracy “)


The western world has become a parasite on humanity. You really have to be a braindead idiot not to see itat this point. Everyone is sick and tired of having to pay for geopolitical misadventures of the west

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

zartosht said:


> The US genocided and annexed all native territories
> 
> They then annexed territory from canada (its not a coincidence their borders are near perfect lines)
> 
> The US annexed a huge portion of mexican territory which includes california and texas.
> 
> If a country was bordering the US(say mexico) and became a foriegn outpost to attack the US. I guarantee you with 110% certainty US would have genocided and annexed a major portion of it (again)
> 
> The US believes it owns the entire americas (monroe doctrine).
> 
> It thinks all the middle east oil is “our oil that god accidentally put in their lands”.
> 
> And will aggresively attack and i stall puppet regimes the earth over. They are literally saying openly they want to turn the whole world into a western vassalage(spreading “democracy “)
> 
> 
> The western world has become a parasite on humanity. You really have to be a braindead idiot not to see itat this point. Everyone is sick and tired of having to pay for geopolitical misadventures of the west



That's right. The US has no morals. The US didn't care when Nazis were slaughtering millions of Jews. Today, only the US and Ukraine refuse to denounce Nazis at the UNGA.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586708399932194818

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586689424330555393


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586680405691883521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586711269117423616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586623256768962560


----------



## Paul2

Kherson direction

AUF massing on Brid direction, with advanced parties reaching Chkalove, while slower advance continues from the north-east as usual.

As suspected they are cutting into that north-south road going to Beryslav

Bakhmut

A report of one very well placed MLRS strike. Wagner forward stations destroyed, and mopped up by infantry.

Another lucky MLRS strike far away behind lines allegedly killed more than a hundred in makeshift barracks north-west of Horlivka

As predicted, cold is flushing out Russians from fields, and into towns, where HiMARS strikes arrive promptly

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586719140567556096
They say the British naval operation center in Odessa has been bombed.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586702799949238277


----------



## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> The US genocided and annexed all native territories
> 
> They then annexed territory from canada (its not a coincidence their borders are near perfect lines)
> 
> The US annexed a huge portion of mexican territory which includes california and texas.
> 
> If a country was bordering the US(say mexico) and became a foriegn outpost to attack the US. I guarantee you with 110% certainty US would have genocided and annexed a major portion of it (again)
> 
> The US believes it owns the entire americas (monroe doctrine).
> 
> It thinks all the middle east oil is “our oil that god accidentally put in their lands”.
> 
> And will aggresively attack and i stall puppet regimes the earth over. They are literally saying openly they want to turn the whole world into a western vassalage(spreading “democracy “)
> 
> 
> The western world has become a parasite on humanity. You really have to be a braindead idiot not to see itat this point. Everyone is sick and tired of having to pay for geopolitical misadventures of the west


And you can argue the same for every country on earth if you go back far enough. 
What’s your point? 🤷🏿‍♂️

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## Dalit

LOL @dbc Nice to see you go apeshit. Your negative ratings expose your emotional state. You are emotionally unstable. You are losing in Ukraine. I am going to keep torturing you mentally. The moment you hand out negative ratings I know I have succeeded LOL

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## dbc

Dalit said:


> LOLO @dbc Nice to see you go apeshit. You are losing in Ukraine.


stop using racial slurs @LeGenD @waz

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## Dalit

Muhammed45 said:


> Surprise, Mr Joker is back with plenty of Photoshop works
> 
> View attachment 890725
> View attachment 890726
> View attachment 890727
> View attachment 890728
> View attachment 890729
> View attachment 890730


LMAO



RoadAmerica said:


> And you can argue the same for every country on earth if you go back far enough.
> What’s your point? 🤷🏿‍♂️



Don't freak out. Just take breath and take the punches as they come.



dbc said:


> stop using racial slurs @LeGenD @waz



You stop shedding crocodile tears because you are responsible for a lot of bloodshed in the world. Russia isn't Iraq. You better get that through your empty skull.

LOL look at him tag mods. Desperate.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586719874465689600


----------



## Ali_Baba

*40,000 Russian Soldiers trapped in Kherson as Ukranian forces move forward.*









Putin sending 40k Russian troops to 'meat grinder' with 'no escape'


Vladimir Putin could lose tens of thousands of soldiers in Kherson due to their poor war training, a retired General suggested.




www.express.co.uk

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586728602011418624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586724014466207744


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## Dalit

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586719874465689600



Make no mistake. A brutal shock and awe is on its way.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586454515863019520
> Russia should either shut up or take down UK's military and/or critical infrastructure. UK's aggressive moves are very clear. Now either match it or shut up. What kind of sissy complaints are they issuing?


Russia is having its vietnam times 20 in ukraine.

It is in no position at all to widen conflict to Nato. It will be crushed like an insect and then only the nuclear (suicide) option remains. 


Paul2 said:


> Kherson direction
> 
> AUF massing on Brid direction, with advanced parties reaching Chkalove, while slower advance continues from the north-east as usual.
> 
> As suspected they are cutting into that north-south road going to Beryslav
> 
> Bakhmut
> 
> A report of one very well placed MLRS strike. Wagner forward stations destroyed, and mopped up by infantry.
> 
> Another lucky MLRS strike far away behind lines allegedly killed more than a hundred in makeshift barracks north-west of Horlivka
> 
> As predicted, cold is flushing out Russians from fields, and into towns, where HiMARS strikes arrive promptly


I do have to admit Kherson is proving a harder nut to crack then first thought with the russian logistical lines compromised.

Small gains with quite a cost in ukranian lives hnfortunately.
Ofcourse plenty of russian fertilizer as well, but russian lives are cheap. (For Putin…but for russians as well considering there is hardly any real opposition yet)

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Kherson direction
> 
> AUF massing on Brid direction, with advanced parties reaching Chkalove, while slower advance continues from the north-east as usual.
> 
> As suspected they are cutting into that north-south road going to Beryslav
> 
> Bakhmut
> 
> A report of one very well placed MLRS strike. Wagner forward stations destroyed, and mopped up by infantry.
> 
> Another lucky MLRS strike far away behind lines allegedly killed more than a hundred in makeshift barracks north-west of Horlivka
> 
> As predicted, cold is flushing out Russians from fields, and into towns, where HiMARS strikes arrive promptly


Interesting is the question, where is the Russia army? Probably either dead, wounded, or run away. The Chechens defend Cherson, the Wagners lead the charge against the Ukraine army at Bachmut.
Just a matter of weeks until they share the same fate.
Ukraine says the tide has turned. Western artillery can target Russia positions at further distance and more accurate. While Russia artillery can’t







Ukrainische Artilleristen am Donnerstag (27. Oktober) mit der deutschen 155-mm-Haubitze FH70 im Südosten der Ukraine. Auch im Süden - in Cherson - spielt die Artillerie eine wichtige Rolle. © IMAGO/Dmytro Smolienko / Ukrinform

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## zartosht

RoadAmerica said:


> And you can argue the same for every country on earth if you go back far enough.
> What’s your point? 🤷🏿‍♂️



The point is it was a response to a specific claim by a wannabe westerner vietnamese that the US doesnt annex territory….

Its good though that you acknowledge the part about the US being an aggresive colonialist empire. Its a start

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

zartosht said:


> The point is it was a response to a specific claim by a wannabe westerner vietnamese that the US doesnt annex territory….
> 
> Its good though that you acknowledge the part about the US being an aggresive colonialist empire. Its a start



I doubt @Viet is Vietnamese. I think he is White German false flagger.


----------



## Dalit

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I doubt @Viet is Vietnamese. I think he is White German false flagger.



Many here are false flaggers. Don't be fooled by their names and flags.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586699285449547777

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## Dalit

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586699285449547777



Give it back to the Ukrainians with interest.


----------



## Vergennes

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586699285449547777



Russians striking buildings which have been emptied since the first day of the war + claiming a so called HQ of the "British naval operation service" is so hilarious.

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## Dalit

Vergennes said:


> Russians striking buildings which have been emptied since the first day of the war + claiming a so called HQ of the "British naval operation service" is so hilarious.



It is plain business. Don't get angry.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586728685591224321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586726005003239424

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## Dalit

Listen to this carefully. The Western powers will never sanction major industries in Russia because their consumers also rely on them.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586723227639971840


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586743644136038401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586741066396491776

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586753704857845762


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> The US genocided and annexed all native territories
> 
> They then annexed territory from canada (its not a coincidence their borders are near perfect lines)
> 
> The US annexed a huge portion of mexican territory which includes california and texas.
> 
> If a country was bordering the US(say mexico) and became a foriegn outpost to attack the US. I guarantee you with 110% certainty US would have genocided and annexed a major portion of it (again)
> 
> The US believes it owns the entire americas (monroe doctrine).
> 
> It thinks all the middle east oil is “our oil that god accidentally put in their lands”.
> 
> And will aggresively attack and i stall puppet regimes the earth over. They are literally saying openly they want to turn the whole world into a western vassalage(spreading “democracy “)
> 
> 
> The western world has become a parasite on humanity. You really have to be a braindead idiot not to see itat this point. Everyone is sick and tired of having to pay for geopolitical misadventures of the west


Said the person living under a fake democracy, which is in reality a dictatorship which is killing those that are sick and tired of it.

Annexing territory was outlawed in 1949. Any annexing before that are irrelevant to everyone except trolls.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586739536931033088

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586764100482244608


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## Dalit

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Said the person living under a fake democracy, which is in reality a dictatorship which is killing those that are sick and tired of it.
> 
> Annexing territory was outlawed in 1949. Any annexing before that are irrelevant to everyone except trolls.



Here comes the real democracy preacher. We know how your annexing law works. Israel annexes Palestinian terrority till this day. Not a word from the Western champions of democracy. So much pain and anguish for the blue eyed and blonde haired Ukrainians.

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Give it back to the Ukrainians with interest.


Please. Russian propaganda is so stupid.

“Moskva was not hit”
“Moskva was hit but all is well”
“Moskva sank but everyone saved”
“We paid back woth interest” (some civilian buildings”
“Nato black ops HQs destroyed” 

Blahblahblah.

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## zartosht

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Said the person living under a fake democracy, which is in reality a dictatorship which is killing those that are sick and tired of it.
> 
> Annexing territory was outlawed in 1949. Any annexing before that are irrelevant to everyone except trolls.



Wow!!! So you mean to tell me the victors of the world war annexed everything they wanted put jn a rule to permenantly lock in their gains?? Wow!!!! I didnt know that…..

Please tell this “international community” to vigorously follow the case of Syrias golan heights. Oo nvm zionist are special……

Here i will let your western propaganda talking points be answered by Dr. Marandi.

Some fake news german government funded “journalist” tried the same propaganda crap they usually pull, only to gwt absolutly violated by marandi.

This is how you shut down western propaganda:







Foreign diplomats the world over could learn from marandi

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> 
> Don't freak out. Just take breath and take the punches as they come.
> 
> 
> 
> You stop shedding crocodile tears because you are responsible for a lot of bloodshed in the world. Russia isn't Iraq. You better get that through your empty skull.
> 
> LOL look at him tag mods. Desperate.


Oh yeh I’m freaking out 🙄
You contribute nothing to this thread

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## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> Oh yeh I’m freaking out 🙄
> You contribute nothing to this thread



LOL What happened to your tall claims? Wasn't Russia supposed to be bankrupt by now? Wasn't Russia supposed to be finished by now? All I am seeing is a crazy economic fallout in many European capitals since Russia squeezed on oil and gas.

PS. Thank God the mods for the Haha button.

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Here comes the real democracy preacher. We know how your annexing law works. Israel annexes Palestinian terrority till this day. Not a word from the Western champions of democracy. So much pain and anguish for the blue eyed and blonde haired Ukrainians.


Palestine recieves most of its humanitarian funds from the west…and western pressure is what stops israel from
Just acting like any other muslim neighbour and simply genociding or ethnic cleansing the Palestinians in 1 go. 

In meantime you talk about human rights but its clear you dont care for anybody other then your tribe/cult…even wishing harm on your fellow countrymen. Despicable. 

Critiscism about morals from you goes straight to where it belongs…the trash

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Palestine recieves most of its humanitarian funds from the west…and western pressure is what stops israel from
> Just acting like any other muslim neighbour and simply genociding or ethnic cleansing the Palestinians in 1 go.
> 
> In meantime you talk about human rights but its clear you dont care for anybody other then your tribe/cult…even wishing harm on your fellow countrymen. Despicable.
> 
> Critiscism about morals from you goes straight to where it belongs…the trash



Peanuts for the Palestinians to shut them up and accept Israeli annexation. Don't give me this baloney. You turn a blind eye to Israeli atrocities committed against ordinary Palestinians. Their land gets stolen in broad daylight yet your governments are hand and glove with Israel.

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> I do have to admit Kherson is proving a harder nut to crack then first thought with the russian logistical lines compromised.
> 
> Small gains with quite a cost in ukranian lives hnfortunately.
> Ofcourse plenty of russian fertilizer as well, but russian lives are cheap. (For Putin…but for russians as well considering there is hardly any real opposition yet)


That's because the Ukrainian probably have order not to get into a "Mariupol" style fight and not to damage the infrastructure of Kherson and cause civilian, Ukrainian Civilian casualty. 

Notice that the Ukrainian has already pushed into Outskirt of Kherson City and are in Artillery range, not M777 with base bleed range but 122mm or 152mm Soviet Artillery range, they has been there since August. I kept saying they should try to evacuate the city and level it with the Russian inside, they can do that with anything in their arsenal, M777, casear, HIMARS or even D-30 or 2S19. But no such order came which mean they are most likely sitting it out on the outskirt and wait until they capture Nova Kakovhka and try to complete the encirclement. 

And judging from OSINT video they release; It's estimate that they probably have made 4-50km progress in that line and is around 30km away from Nova Kakovhka

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> Listen to this carefully. The Western powers will never sanction major industries in Russia because their consumers also rely on them.


What are “major” industries in Russia that are not sanctioned?


----------



## DF41




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586725252595433473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586690102587162625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586706632675053569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586677228502499328

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Peanuts for the Palestinians to shut them up and accept Israeli annexation. Don't give me this baloney. You turn a blind eye to Israeli atrocities committed against ordinary Palestinians. Their land gets stolen in broad daylight yet your governments are hand and glove with Israel.


utter opinionated trash.
Palestinians get plenty of western support…and this despite the fact that israeli-palestinian conflict for the last 70 years has been tiny compared to other human rights issues. With two morally grey parties. 

I mean the kurds are a bigger stateless group. Marocco annexed a larger territory then the microscopic amount Israel did, and we have armenian/pontic/bangladesh genocides that no one batted an eye at and certainly never really got any justice. 


Oh wait…i forgot…you always grab your list
“Outrage—yes or no”
1. Is the victim a muslim? 
No? Who cares
Yes? Potential outrage move to 2
2. Is the attacker muslim
Yes? Turn a blind eye (unless the wrong sect) 
No? Start up your outrage!, move to 3
3. Is the attacker a geopoliticial ally like russia or china?
Yes? Wooops!…turn a blind eye again
No? Outrage!!!! Move to 4
4 is the attacker western or worse…a jew?!
Yes? Mouth foaming, flag burning outrage!!!

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## jhungary

Looks like Russian klepto does not stop with stealing Ukrainian car, motorbike, toilet and washing machine, they now emptying the crypt and start stealing remain of historical figure in Ukraine....



Russia stole from a Ukrainian crypt the bones of Catherine the Great's lover, the conqueror who annexed Crimea and inspired Putin


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586772847225184263

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586776771034316801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586781387713118210


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586655128144207877

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586706877576011777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586704540207833088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586703555779493890

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## Viet

These Ukraine bomb drone boats are very interesting. The attacks look like a video game.

Russia warships now live in constant fear.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586363975817515009


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> These Ukraine bomb drone boats are very interesting. The attacks look like a video game.
> 
> Russia warships now live in constant fear.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586363975817515009



I think it requires SATCOM to transmit signal to Odessa. The distance is too far for direct transmission for remote control, especially considering this is a boat and not an aerial drone.

If navy drones are indeed the future of naval warfare, we can kiss warships arse goodbye the way battleships are no longer built.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586775396174991369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586758967329521666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586754053643685888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586745831406927881

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## The SC

Big terrain gains for the Russians..

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I think it requires SATCOM to transmit signal to Odessa. The distance is too far for direct transmission for remote control, especially considering this is a boat and not an aerial drone.
> 
> If navy drones are indeed the future of naval warfare, we can kiss warships arse goodbye the way battleships are no longer built.


Probably sat guided drone 

That’s a new game.

Drone boat
Drone tank
Drone aircraft

Also, this smart ammo is interesting.

Excalibur shell

Looks at the vid. The smart shell destroys a Russian tank with one hit from far distance.








Most-Accurate US artillery shell


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Chinese state news embedded with Russian army in a newly annexed area.

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## Viet




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


>



Cheap RC toy. It is vulnerable to jamming and even small arms fire.









Ukraine Unleashes Mass Kamikaze Drone Boat Attack On Russia's Black Sea Fleet Headquarters


Russia says Ukrainian aerial drones and unmanned surface vessels targeted the home of its Black Sea Fleet, damaging at least a minesweeper.




www.thedrive.com


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Cheap RC toy. It is vulnerable to jamming and even small arms fire.


Cheap?

Russia flag ship Marakow is out of action.

It’s a good trade off.

Putin is so angry he fires a top general and withdraws from the grain deal.

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## Shawnee




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russia flag ship Marakow is out of action.



Doubt.


----------



## Shawnee

Zelensky poor photoshop picture with dimension mistakes starts more photoshop satires:

















Zelly is a comedy character and still is.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586782359386349568

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Interesting is the question, where is the Russia army? Probably either dead, wounded, or run away. The Chechens defend Cherson, the Wagners lead the charge against the Ukraine army at Bachmut.



There are indeed a lot of RUAF last remaining professionals stacked in Khesanh.

AUF publicly disclosed count is 30k troops there, who for most time just hang around in the city, and live in expropriated lodgings.


----------



## Viet

Paul2 said:


> There are indeed a lot of RUAF last remaining professionals stacked in Khesanh.
> 
> AUF publicly disclosed count is 30k troops there, who for most time just hang around in the city, and live in expropriated lodgings.


Those 30k Russian soldiers can’t hold the position forever. They live in a miserable condition in constant fear of precision Ukraine artillery. Hunger. Thirst. The winter is coming. Who knows maybe they will return home alive and in one piece. The war is over tomorrow because Putin falls out of window.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> Zelensky poor photoshop picture with dimension mistakes starts more photoshop satires:
> 
> View attachment 890876
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 890879
> 
> 
> Zelly is a comedy character and still is.


Damn you guys are retarded what makes you think this is photoshop


----------



## MeFishToo

Beny Karachun said:


> Damn you guys are retarded what makes you think this is photoshop


Part of the russian narrative fueled by a massive disinformation campaign - Zelenskyy hidding, NATO in charge, Russia fighting the entire western world.
Half the members of this forum just seems to hate the west so they play along, pretending to believe whatever ridicules stories surfacing the internet.

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> If you really believed that, you would leave Europe.
> Until You do, such comments are just hot air.


I left Europe 5 Years ago, lol. So I am not hot air but you certainly may well end up as hot air if you coddle to the Nazis.

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## Titanium100

MeFishToo said:


> Part of the russian narrative fueled by a massive disinformation campaign - Zelenskyy hidding, NATO in charge, Russia fighting the entire western world.



The poster you qouted is Iranian what else did you expect him to say? he will only share with you an Iranian perspective on things... They are sending weapons and not a neutral party but actual combatants in the Ukrainian war

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## MeFishToo

Titanium100 said:


> The poster you qouted is Iranian what else did you expect him to say? he will only share with you an Iranian perspective on things... Not everyone is anti-west. Some have good relations with the West around this blocks while others not as Iran, China, Syria, Russia etc etc. pakistanis are split in both camps.. Some are neutral and some are supporting the west for their own political reasons such as KSA, GULF, egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Tunisia, Bangladesh, Turkey, Israel etc etc it is alot more polarizing then you realize.. Then you have the Indians lost in the middle... Alot of conflicting interests. Example you will see Vietnamese posters support Ukraine and EU etc etc
> 
> Either due to economic reasons, ties or trade or what not.. You will hardly find one political line but shifting narratives


I said half the members.. 
Im sure I have been reading posts on this forum on and off since 2006 when the cartoons were published in Denmark. If I want to I could find someone posting anti-western gibberish every single day on PDF.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586833829506998272

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> I left Europe 5 Years ago, lol. So I am not hot air but you certainly may well end up as hot air if you coddle to the Nazis.


So You are simply a false flagger then…


----------



## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> So You are simply a false flagger then…


Not quite , I live and work in Silicon Valley but return to UK regularly.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> Wow!!! So you mean to tell me the victors of the world war annexed everything they wanted put jn a rule to permenantly lock in their gains?? Wow!!!! I didnt know that…..


No, You are generally unaware of treaties and International Law.


zartosht said:


> Please tell this “international community” to vigorously follow the case of Syrias golan heights. Oo nvm zionist are special……



False equivalences will not strengthen Your arguments.



zartosht said:


> Here i will let your western propaganda talking points be answered by Dr. Marandi.



If You cannot articulate an argument, noone is going to spend half an hour listen to yet another Iranian which You claim (without proof) may have anything to say.



zartosht said:


> Some fake news german government funded “journalist” tried the same propaganda crap they usually pull, only to gwt absolutly violated by marandi.
> 
> This is how you shut down western propaganda:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign diplomats the world over could learn from marandi


I suspect he learned a thing or two from Goebbels and Bagdad Bob.



khansaheeb said:


> Not quite , I live and work in Silicon Valley but return to UK regularly.


Still a false flagger.
And You think Silicon Valley is going to be spared in a nuclear exchange…
Think again…

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## Vergennes

Not so much tiktoks lately after getting himarsed it seems.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586861789928734721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586859866471153666

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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> I said half the members..
> Im sure I have been reading posts on this forum on and off since 2006 when the cartoons were published in Denmark. If I want to I could find someone posting anti-western gibberish every single day on PDF.



Do you expect members on PDF to worship Western powers? Just learn to live with the fact that not everyone in this world is on your side.



Viet said:


> What are “major” industries in Russia that are not sanctioned?



Russia has managed to singlehandedly put most Western economies into recession. That is a fact. As the CNN host explained, Western countries cannot embargo all Russian industries and sectors. Simply because Western consumers also rely on these Russian sectors that deliver certain end products.



The SC said:


> Big terrain gains for the Russians..



This is where Russia excels and will continue to make further gains.

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> Do you expect members on PDF to worship Western powers? Just learn to live with the fact that not everyone in this world is on your side.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has managed to singlehandedly put most Western economies into recession. That is a fact. As the CNN host explained, Western countries cannot embargo all Russian industries and sectors. Simply because Western consumers also rely on these Russian sectors that deliver certain end products.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where Russia excels and will continue to make further gains.


CNN is nothing but American propaganda.
Also most major economies were already heading towards a recession, it’s how economics works after spending trillions during covid lock downs


----------



## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> CNN is nothing but American propaganda.
> Also most major economies were already heading towards a recession, it’s how economics works after spending trillions during covid lock downs



What point are you trying to make? Russian moves to curb the export of gas and oil have contributed massively to accelerate recession in Western nations. Even Western economic experts admit this fact.

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## Shawnee

The best defense against Iranian drones is well Known by Israelis for years:

Running to your hole in 5 minutes as soon as sirens go off

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## BHAN85

> *France: Russia's accusations that UK facilitated attacks on Nord Stream pipeline and Crimea are "baseless"*
> From CNN's Niamh Kennedy and Saskya Vandoorne
> France pushed back against Russia’s accusations that the United Kingdom helped facilitate attacks on the Crimean city of Sevastopol and the Nord Stream pipeline, calling them “baseless.”











October 30, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news


Russia suspended its participation in a grain deal viewed as key to addressing the global food shortage. In the eastern Luhansk region, Ukraine took control of a key highway.




edition.cnn.com





I think Russia dont have a clue about who blew up Nordstreams, if they have some prove, they'd publish it.

They accuse UK just because UK is transparent enough to talk publicly about their capabilities of submarine war.

But as Ukraine have just demostrated, any little state can take a submarine drone and put a lot of explosive inside.

If Nordstreams blast was done by some NATO member, likely it was Denmark, just because they are the nearest to blast place, and they can do it more quietly than any other, and they have something to win too, with the baltic pipe.

I think it's frightening than a ruler with nuclear weapons accusses publicly some other state without proves, and likely doing it wrong.



Shawnee said:


> The best defense against Iranian drones is well Known by Israelis for years:
> 
> Running to your hole in 5 minutes as soon as sirens go off


The best defense is level to ground all Iranian drones factories 

Iran is playing with fire helping Russia.

Rich kids of Tehran can stop of getting new iPhones to upload their pics to Instagram.

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## DF41

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?extid=NS-UNK-UNK-UNK-IOS_GK0T-GK1C&v=564745535460385  
From George Galloway

"It’s virtual war between the #UK and #Russia after #NordStream attack. How do we know whodunnit? Because of a hack attack on Dizzy Lizzie #Truss’ phone. The #HunterBiden laptop. The #Pelosi y-front scandal and much more

‘It’s done,’ Liz #Truss messaged #AnthonyBlinken seconds after #NordStream explosion.

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Those 30k Russian soldiers can’t hold the position forever. They live in a miserable condition in constant fear of precision Ukraine artillery. Hunger. Thirst. The winter is coming. Who knows maybe they will return home alive and in one piece. The war is over tomorrow because Putin falls out of window.



The digit 30k is really surprising, as even 15k before doesn't really correspond to the effect seen on the battlefield.

I think Ukrainians themselves are scratching their heads where did Russians managed to hide so many troops in that city, and the exact troop composition.

It's currently understood that the most just sit in Kherson city, doing nothing.


----------



## Viet

Some interesting numbers

Ukraine army has 1.2 million soldiers in active service.

In addition to military gears every soldier receives equipment worth $2,000 on average from family and friends (gas mask, boots, winter jacket, helmet, etc.)

The most important military equipment however is the shovel.

To build trench, dig in 





​




__





Ausrüstung im Ukraine-Krieg: Schaufel als "bester Freund" - ZDFheute


Seit Kriegsbeginn laufen die Diskussionen um Waffenlieferungen. Doch ein großer Ausrüster der ukrainischen Armee ist die eigene Bevölkerung.




amp.zdf.de


----------



## BHAN85

DF41 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/watch/?extid=NS-UNK-UNK-UNK-IOS_GK0T-GK1C&v=564745535460385
> From George Galloway
> 
> "It’s virtual war between the #UK and #Russia after #NordStream attack. How do we know whodunnit? Because of a hack attack on Dizzy Lizzie #Truss’ phone. The #HunterBiden laptop. The #Pelosi y-front scandal and much more
> 
> ‘It’s done,’ Liz #Truss messaged #AnthonyBlinken seconds after #NordStream explosion.



Russia are so "good" hacking things, that Zelensky is still alive, meeting online by videoconference with a lot of people everyday, as the bombs fall around him, and nobody in Russia knows where Zelensky is.

They can't hack Zelensky, but they can hack a UK ruler, when UK cyberdefenses must be a million times better than Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586986894516174852

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586986067231752192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586984309528952833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586984320698286081

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586982108337160192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586814232468762626

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586850542755667970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586788414577606657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586706632675053569


----------



## Viet

Dalit said:


> Do you expect members on PDF to worship Western powers? Just learn to live with the fact that not everyone in this world is on your side.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has managed to singlehandedly put most Western economies into recession. That is a fact. As the CNN host explained, Western countries cannot embargo all Russian industries and sectors. Simply because Western consumers also rely on these Russian sectors that deliver certain end products.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where Russia excels and will continue to make further gains.


Western countries slipping into recession is nothing. That’s not worth mentioning even I pay more for supermarkets or 2 euros per liter gasoline for my cars. Ukraine has suffered a damage of estimate 750 billion USD. Not including the cost of human lives.
Certainly the west supports Ukraine. If Ukraine falls, Russian rapists and hooligans will continue and in some day in the future who knows they stand in my house.

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## hadi1990

i cannt understand the russian sources and media those info should be classified ?!!!!
what plane or other mode of transport at what time from which friendly base what equipment.... why should u spread it online to give chance for your enemy to get prepared


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586745831406927881

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## hadi1990

Viet said:


> ok yes you can argue the US brings democracy to the country by destroying it. however they have no intenttion to annex it. one day they will leave eventually. while the russians don´t bring anything democracy, they just want to annex and steal everything. what is worse? if you ask me then both are bad.
> by the way, be warned, the "z" symbol is banned in Germany and many countries elsewhere. Don´t try to do it. a german court just sentenced a men to 4,000 euros.
> 
> 
> View attachment 890772


man i never expected this level of uncalculated thinking method u and the western school guys follow!!!!
this war should have never started a series of catastrophic political strategy and management by every one mainly ukraine and westerns exploded the situation!!
and this war should end as fast as possible but instead a further much more series of catastrophic political strategy and management by every one mainly ukraine and westerns now is making the exploded situation even worse ....
it is smart diplomacy not pumping more gun powder to the fronts that will help every one but mainly ukraine!!!
a f.u.c.k.e.n promise to join nato to become more secure ???? now ukraine is 30 years back from 24 february!!!!! all this could have been avoided by a couple of visits between kiev and moscow prior to that for few thousand dollars worth of tickets or fuel for jets.
wake up a loss for russia is impossible only the price is getting higher to end this , and ukraine will be the most suffering!!
historically the russians had some land given to ukraine like crimea all those regions could have been negotiated to be arms free... 
no one will listen before its too late

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Some interesting numbers
> 
> Ukraine army has 1.2 million soldiers in active service.
> 
> In addition to military gears every soldier receives equipment worth $2,000 on average from family and friends (gas mask, boots, winter jacket, helmet, etc.)
> 
> The most important military equipment however is the shovel.
> 
> To build trench, dig in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ausrüstung im Ukraine-Krieg: Schaufel als "bester Freund" - ZDFheute
> 
> 
> Seit Kriegsbeginn laufen die Diskussionen um Waffenlieferungen. Doch ein großer Ausrüster der ukrainischen Armee ist die eigene Bevölkerung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.zdf.de



It is hard to believe they have 1million soldier under arms - guess it would be true - given that Ukraine has done as a full mobilisation.

Russia has done 300k ( which is actually 1million according to its own leaks) - which means that this will be a status quo war once those russian's come online.

Russia needs more troops if it is to over-turn the ukranian army which is now up to speed, fully trained and experienced.

What Ukraine needs now is guns - lots and lots of new weapons..


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586988639883599873

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586325029511630850


that's a fake replica not a buk


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587044535473000451
Genius

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587040800600477696


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587036006007672832


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586988347926487040


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587024306160164866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587030975615221760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587014819005218817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586983695520612352

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586934967132643330

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----------



## sammuel

.



With Western Weapons, Ukraine Is Turning the Tables in an Artillery War​
In the southern Kherson region, Ukraine now has the advantage in range and precision guidance of artillery, rockets and drones, erasing what had been a critical Russian asset.


But in recent months, the tide has turned along the front lines in southern Ukraine. With powerful Western weapons and deadly homemade drones, Ukraine now has artillery superiority in the area, commanders and military analysts say.

Ukraine now has an edge in both range and in precision-guided rockets and artillery shells, a class of weapons largely lacking in Russia’s arsenal. Ukrainian soldiers are taking out armored vehicles worth millions of dollars with cheap homemade drones, as well as with more advanced drones and other weapons provided by the United States and allies.

Ukraine’s growing advantage in artillery, a stark contrast to fighting throughout the country over the summer when Russia pummeled Ukrainian positions with mortar and artillery fire, has allowed slow if costly progress in the south toward the strategic port city of Kherson, the only provincial capital that Russia managed to occupy after invading in February.

The contrast with the battlefield over the summer could not be starker. In the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine, Russia fired roughly 10 artillery rounds for each answering shell from Ukrainian batteries. In Kherson now, Ukrainian commanders say the sides are firing about equal numbers of shells, but Ukraine’s strikes are not only longer range but more precise because of the satellite-guided rockets and artillery rounds provided by the West.

“We can reach them and they cannot reach us,” said Maj. Oleksandr, the commander of an artillery battery on the Kherson front, who like others interviewed for this article gave only his first name for security reasons. “They don’t have these weapons.”

A main highway approaching Kherson city from the west has become a thoroughfare for Ukrainian artillery, with towed howitzers, truck-mounted howitzers and trucks laden with grad rockets rumbling by continually through the day.

American-provided M777 howitzers firing precision-guided shells and striking up to 20 miles behind Russian lines have forced the Russians to stage heavy equipment farther from the front. Ukrainian drones spot infantry but fewer tanks or armored vehicles near the front line, said First Lt. Oleh, the commander of a unit flying reconnaissance drones. “We hear a lot of rumors they are abandoning the first lines of defense.”


The rest here :










With Western Weapons, Ukraine Is Turning the Tables in an Artillery War


In the southern Kherson region, Ukraine now has the advantage in range and precision guidance of artillery, rockets and drones, erasing what had been a critical Russian asset.




www.nytimes.com

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> It is hard to believe they have 1million soldier under arms - guess it would be true - given that Ukraine has done as a full mobilisation.
> 
> Russia has done 300k ( which is actually 1million according to its own leaks) - which means that this will be a status quo war once those russian's come online.
> 
> Russia needs more troops if it is to over-turn the ukranian army which is now up to speed, fully trained and experienced.
> 
> What Ukraine needs now is guns - lots and lots of new weapons..


The 300k mobi figure came from Shoigu. That’s obviously a fake. Putin signed the mobi decree with the real number classified as top secret.
Realistic is 500,000. However Russia reserves are many millions. So the total mobi can be something between 500,000 and 5 million.


----------



## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> ~​​Sevastopol: Unmanned surface vehicles hit Admiral Makarov, flagship of Russian Black Sea Fleet​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least three ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, including the Admiral Makarov flagship, were damaged as a result of the unmanned surface vessel [USV] attack on 29 October.
> 
> *Source*: GeoConfirmed, a volunteer-managed outlet mapping the war in Ukraine based on geolocations, on Twitter
> 
> *Details*: GeoConfirmed investigators have analysed footage from the unmanned surface vessels [USVs are speedboat-size vessels that can pack hundreds of pounds of explosives – ed.], which roamed the harbour and the sea near Sevastopol.
> 
> The investigators released footage of an attack on an Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate. They concluded that the Admiral Makarov is the only one that matches this description in the Black Sea. The footage stops when the USV hits the vessel and explodes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sevastopol: Unmanned surface vehicles hit Admiral Makarov, flagship of Russian Black Sea Fleet
> 
> 
> UKRAINSKA PRAVDA - SUNDAY, 30 OCTOBER 2022, 07:10 At least three ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, including the Admiral Makarov flagship, were damaged as a result of the unmanned surface vessel [USV] attack on 29 October.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com


I'm still wondering , aren't minesweepers supposed to be equipped with equipment to detect such threats . why that minesweeper, Ivan Golubets was not able to detect the threat



DF41 said:


> ⚠️ Today at 4.20 am, the Kiev regime carried out a terrorist attack against the ships of the Black Sea Fleet and civilian ships that were on the outer and inner roadsteads of the Sevastopol base.


well i don't call that terrorist attack that was a completely legit and fair target 


MeFishToo said:


> Its just the optics cheating you. The windspan is 2,5 meters and the angle makes the drone look shorter than its own wingspan.


problem is something else , the drone is shahed-131 or Geran-1 whatever you like call it , they claimed its shahed-136 or Geran-2 they have 1 1m difference in size and that is what started it

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## Hack-Hook

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586651438373081089
> 
> 
> These people speak Russian. Makes no difference for them if they live in Russia or Ukraine. BBC propaganda is so lame.


honestly it make a lot difference for me if I live in Iran or Tajikistan or Afghanistan.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587071834364776448


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586979736751902721

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## 925boy

jhungary said:


> I kept saying they should try to evacuate the city and level it with the Russian inside, they can do that with anything in their arsenal, M777, casear, HIMARS or even D-30 or 2S19. But no such order came which mean they are most likely sitting it out on the outskirt and wait until they capture Nova Kakovhka and try to complete the encirclement.


Let us know when this day comes!

Ukranians keep dying at a fast rate, and they will never take Kherson, screenshot this. lol. THe war momentum has obviously shifted back in Russia's favor.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587066498350194688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587066504478183426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587065150426734595

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587056475293335560

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> What point are you trying to make? Russian moves to curb the export of gas and oil have contributed massively to accelerate recession in Western nations. Even Western economic experts admit this fact.


The point was it’s an economic cycle and a recession was coming and inflation rising despite the war breaking out. At least in the U, Russia has had a minimal contribution towards the recent economic downturn. I suggest you take an undergrad economics class if you can’t figure that out.


----------



## Shawnee

Trump will sell Ukraine from day 1.
Poor Ukrainian will suffer, when he is taking pictures with Putin.

Trump will be more game changer than Iranian drones.

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## Hack-Hook

Titanium100 said:


> The poster you qouted is Iranian what else did you expect him to say? he will only share with you an Iranian perspective on things... They are sending weapons and not a neutral party but actual combatants in the Ukrainian war


no sending weapon won't make you combatant . Its just business

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## Shawnee

France, US, Germany and many other sent Iraq from fighters to chemical weapons against Iran.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Titanium100 said:


> The poster you qouted is Iranian what else did you expect him to say? he will only share with you an Iranian perspective on things... They are sending weapons and not a neutral party but actual combatants in the Ukrainian war


no sending weapon won't make you combatant . Its just business


A.P. Richelieu said:


> False equivalences will not strengthen Your arguments.


what's false about it in 1967 israel attacked united Arab republic and annexed it


----------



## Viet

hadi1990 said:


> man i never expected this level of uncalculated thinking method u and the western school guys follow!!!!
> this war should have never started a series of catastrophic political strategy and management by every one mainly ukraine and westerns exploded the situation!!
> and this war should end as fast as possible but instead a further much more series of catastrophic political strategy and management by every one mainly ukraine and westerns now is making the exploded situation even worse ....
> it is smart diplomacy not pumping more gun powder to the fronts that will help every one but mainly ukraine!!!
> a f.u.c.k.e.n promise to join nato to become more secure ???? now ukraine is 30 years back from 24 february!!!!! all this could have been avoided by a couple of visits between kiev and moscow prior to that for few thousand dollars worth of tickets or fuel for jets.
> wake up a loss for russia is impossible only the price is getting higher to end this , and ukraine will be the most suffering!!
> historically the russians had some land given to ukraine like crimea all those regions could have been negotiated to be arms free...
> no one will listen before its too late


That’s a hopeless war for Russia.
Ukraine is supported by the US, EU, Nato, 50-country-alliance. As soon as Putin realizes it and pisses off, the sooner the war can end. That’s the only way out.

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## zartosht

Record breaking inflation numbers in the euro zone

10.7% and climbing!!!!






And thats the total inflation “officially” being counted

Real jnflation, especially on things people need daily like food, energy , rent/mortgage is probably 30-50% range

It is unbleivable how rapidly euros are losing their standards of living. And the major industries on taxpayer life support havent gone down yet, and german government is desperately borrowing 200billion to temporarily stop the bleeding

This is unbelievable. UK sources are claiming upto 10k britons could freeze this winter

Ukies have no water or electricity.

This is what happens when your so dumb that you make your economically prosperous countries jnto a battlefield to fight Russia on washingtons behalf

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## A.P. Richelieu

Viet said:


> Some interesting numbers
> 
> Ukraine army has 1.2 million soldiers in active service.
> 
> In addition to military gears every soldier receives equipment worth $2,000 on average from family and friends (gas mask, boots, winter jacket, helmet, etc.)
> 
> The most important military equipment however is the shovel.
> 
> To build trench, dig in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ausrüstung im Ukraine-Krieg: Schaufel als "bester Freund" - ZDFheute
> 
> 
> Seit Kriegsbeginn laufen die Diskussionen um Waffenlieferungen. Doch ein großer Ausrüster der ukrainischen Armee ist die eigene Bevölkerung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.zdf.de


Already the Roman Army considered the shovel their most important weapon ;-)



hadi1990 said:


> man i never expected this level of uncalculated thinking method u and the western school guys follow!!!!
> this war should have never started a series of catastrophic political strategy and management by every one mainly ukraine and westerns exploded the situation!!
> and this war should end as fast as possible but instead a further much more series of catastrophic political strategy and management by every one mainly ukraine and westerns now is making the exploded situation even worse ....
> it is smart diplomacy not pumping more gun powder to the fronts that will help every one but mainly ukraine!!!
> a f.u.c.k.e.n promise to join nato to become more secure ???? now ukraine is 30 years back from 24 february!!!!! all this could have been avoided by a couple of visits between kiev and moscow prior to that for few thousand dollars worth of tickets or fuel for jets.
> wake up a loss for russia is impossible only the price is getting higher to end this , and ukraine will be the most suffering!!
> historically the russians had some land given to ukraine like crimea all those regions could have been negotiated to be arms free...
> no one will listen before its too late


I guess You find it annoying that other people have principles.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> no sending weapon won't make you combatant . Its just business


Sending weapons to one of the sides in a war. makes an attack from the other side legal.



Hack-Hook said:


> what's false about it in 1967 israel attacked united Arab republic and annexed it


In 1967, Israel responded to Egypts blockade. Blockades are an act of war.

The Golan Heights are legally disputed territory, Ukraine is not.

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## PakFactor

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Sending weapons to one of the sides in a war. makes an attack from the other side legal.
> 
> 
> In 1967, Israel responded to Egypts blockade. Blockades are an act of war.
> 
> The Golan Heights are legally disputed territory, Ukraine is not.



Let's stop bickering about the legality and keep sending arms and fighting.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587119609693487106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587031435596251136

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## Viet

Nice arms package to Ukraine by Italy








Two M270 multiple rocket launchers
six 155mm PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzers
30 units of 155mm M109L self-propelled howitzers
dozens of armoured personnel carriers M113










Italy Provides Ukraine with Dozens of Self-Propelled Howitzers | Sada Elbalad


The former Italian government led by Mario Draghi allocated a significant batch of heavy weapons to Ukraine, which was kept secret until recently.




see.news

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## DF41

‘It’s done,’ Liz #Truss messaged #AnthonyBlinken seconds after #NordStream explosion. Go figure

Make me wonder why she and Blinken did not fix a word or phrase. Such as TORA TORA TORA,
or ' Biden having again a shower with daughter ' or 'London bridge rising' to let it be known her guys blown up the pipeline.


----------



## Shawnee

*Now we have a Ukraine with no power, no water, no subway.*

Zellie fans here said this will not happen. Iranian drones are flying shit. 

Buses are sent out for transportation.

Sad when you do not hav the right AD.

*Yet, nobody else will know in the world because you have the media power.

You stay the master strategist. *

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## A.P. Richelieu

DF41 said:


> ‘It’s done,’ Liz #Truss messaged #AnthonyBlinken seconds after #NordStream explosion. Go figure
> 
> Make me wonder why she and Blinken did not fix a word or phrase. Such as TORA TORA TORA,
> or ' Biden having again a shower with daughter ' or 'London bridge rising' to let it be known her guys blown up the pipeline.


Considering that the UK detected that Liz Truss phone was hacked by Russia this summer, it is unlikely that they managed to do so again so soon afterwards.


----------



## 925boy

Shawnee said:


> Trump will sell Ukraine from day 1.
> Poor Ukrainian will suffer, when he is taking pictures with Putin.
> 
> Trump will be more game changer than Iranian drones.


Trump will go to jail soon, so he wont influence Ukraine much luckily.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Shawnee said:


> *Now we have a Ukraine with no power, no water, no subway.*
> 
> Zellie fans here said this will not happen. Iranian drones are flying shit.
> 
> Buses are sent out for transportation.
> 
> Sad when you do not hav the right AD.
> 
> *Yet, nobody else will know in the world because you have the media power.
> 
> You stay the master strategist. *





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587066389772337154

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## 925boy

Is Oryx also tracking Shahed- 136 kills in Ukraine? I bet he isnt, but he really should.


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> The 300k mobi figure came from Shoigu. That’s obviously a fake. Putin signed the mobi decree with the real number classified as top secret.
> Realistic is 500,000. However Russia reserves are many millions. So the total mobi can be something between 500,000 and 5 million.



Total mobilisation is impossible without war economy, and that also takes time to prepare, with diminishing returns as the time goes.

The mobilisation would've been much more useful for Russia if it was done before the war, rather than when it was already going, and draftees were made into completely fresh units, and most important supplies were already wasted.

Similarly, suspending markets, and currency convertability would've been only effective before richer part of the population could've cashed out their bank accounts, or moved money abroad. They cannot fund setting up war enterprises with debt now, as their bonds are unsellable.

If they will introduce ration stamps, they will have hard time making people use them over huge amounts of hard currency many Russians have stashed by now. USD black markets is already a thing in Russia.

Similarly, forcing people into war production without extreme measures is impossible for Russian government with open market cost of labour. Even Ukraine can't debase its currency that much to fund govt jobs, while it's more fully fully mobilised than Russia, and is getting tons of foreign financial aid.

Russian official statistic shows the country is already hitting lowest unemployment numbers in decades. This is actually very bad news for them. News are that salaries for jobs like food handlers, farm workers, cashiers are skyrocketing.

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## NotSure

I had to work, so i was offline here. But, but, did the Kiew-Nato Regime managed to capture Cherson already?

Our "military man" said few months ago, the probability for Russia to hold Cherson would be 40%!?



Russia at the same time:

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## aziqbal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Sending weapons to one of the sides in a war. makes an attack from the other side legal.
> 
> 
> In 1967, Israel responded to Egypts blockade. Blockades are an act of war.
> 
> The Golan Heights are legally disputed territory, Ukraine is not.



so when Muslim nations supply weapons to both sides its act of war

meanwhile US has been doing it for decades in Africa and Middle East

pay back is sweet

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587071834364776448



Well, you pulled that one fast before you can be corrected and claimed the helicopter to be Russian when it was, in fact, a Ukrainian-owned, shot down by a Russian SAM. 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587081569218461696

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## MeFishToo

zartosht said:


> Record breaking inflation numbers in the euro zone
> 
> 10.7% and climbing!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And thats the total inflation “officially” being counted
> 
> Real jnflation, especially on things people need daily like food, energy , rent/mortgage is probably 30-50% range
> 
> It is unbleivable how rapidly euros are losing their standards of living. And the major industries on taxpayer life support havent gone down yet, and german government is desperately borrowing 200billion to temporarily stop the bleeding
> 
> This is unbelievable. UK sources are claiming upto 10k britons could freeze this winter
> 
> Ukies have no water or electricity.
> 
> This is what happens when your so dumb that you make your economically prosperous countries jnto a battlefield to fight Russia on washingtons behalf


Sorry to burst your bubble, but in real democracies with independent journalism, the official numbers are real. In dictatorships and autocracies the official numbers reflect the wish of the authority (China may turn out a good example when the world realize the chinese GDP is a fabrication).
I live in the EU. Trust me, no one is freezing and no one is going to freeze to death because of this conflict. I know its wasted on you, but russian propaganda does in no way reflect reality.

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## ziaulislam

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Sending weapons to one of the sides in a war. makes an attack from the other side legal.
> 
> 
> In 1967, Israel responded to Egypts blockade. Blockades are an act of war.
> 
> The Golan Heights are legally disputed territory, Ukraine is not.


WTF???
DO YOU HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING INTERNATIONAL LAW???
EVEN ISRAEL DOESNT SAY GOLAN HEIGHT ARE DISPUTED???

WOW

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Well, you pulled that one fast before you can be corrected and claimed the helicopter to be Russian when it was, in fact, a Ukrainian-ownedm shot down by a Russian SAM. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587081569218461696




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587124614882279424
Nice try though.

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## MeFishToo

Viet said:


> Nice arms package to Ukraine by Italy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two M270 multiple rocket launchers
> six 155mm PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzers
> 30 units of 155mm M109L self-propelled howitzers
> dozens of armoured personnel carriers M113
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Italy Provides Ukraine with Dozens of Self-Propelled Howitzers | Sada Elbalad
> 
> 
> The former Italian government led by Mario Draghi allocated a significant batch of heavy weapons to Ukraine, which was kept secret until recently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see.news


Ukraine is going to win this artillery ping pong match because of these donations, if only the supply of ammunition doesnt dry out.
I just wish that NATO would supply “advisors” instructing them how to do offensive operations. Better yet, simply take control of all offensive operations.

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## Dalit

I told you so. Shock and awe by Russia.

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## The SC




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587170470381907968


----------



## Shawnee

Today, nobody on the world even heard the news that Ukraine went no water, no power, no transportation.

Nobody. 

Media is very very important. China can lead the economy but it stays super weak in media.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587195000282091522

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587177659691327488

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## PakFactor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587170470381907968



This is perfect for China. Just let the West keep slugging it out in Europe.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587124614882279424
> Nice try though.



Those helicopter shoot downs are absolutely brutal - basically - no chance of survival at all ... no one walked away from that.

The pilot should have put down immediately - but you can see him pulling the helicopter up as he tried to fly away and he paid for that decision with his life and the life of everyone else in that helicopter ...


----------



## 925boy

PakFactor said:


> This is perfect for China. Just let the West keep slugging it out in Europe.


and also great for Iran - keep letting the West slug it out, while making money off it and saving its citizens and soldiers lives in the process by staying out of a war directly. This war that's "good" for China and Iran cant and wont be good for US, IMO.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Well, you pulled that one fast before you can be corrected and claimed the helicopter to be Russian when it was, in fact, a Ukrainian-owned, shot down by a Russian SAM. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587081569218461696




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587129407969398785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587182889002827780

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## PakFactor

925boy said:


> and also great for Iran - keep letting the West slug it out, while making money off it and saving your citizens and soldiers lives in the process. A war that's "good" for China and Iran cant and wont be good for US, IMO.



Agree; as the saying goes, when two mountain lions fight, one gets killed other is wounded. The vulture comes to feast. The wounded, while alive, would live with injuries that will affect him and he either perishs on his own or get killed.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587124614882279424
> Nice try though.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587083136705482754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587083136705482754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587059169844203520


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> In 1967, Israel responded to Egypts blockade. Blockades are an act of war.
> 
> The Golan Heights are legally disputed territory, Ukraine is not.


no Egypt didn't blockade Israel , it only closed its territorial water to Israeli ships , the Israeli ships could sail between KSA and Tiran Island instead of Egypt and Tiran Island , Israel could use Mediterranean sea .
perhaps you are aware that right of innocent passage won't include enemy nations

by the way as far as I'm aware Iran don't build a uav called Geran-2 or Geran-1 also Ukraine also used Iranian weapon so you can't say one side of war


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587055594367643648

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## 925boy

PakFactor said:


> Agree; as the saying goes, when two mountain lions fight, one gets killed other is wounded. The vulture comes to feast. The wounded, while alive, would live with injuries that will affect him and he either perishs on his own or get killed.


which makes me feel like this war is the start of some "domino effect" in the world order...this conflict is very interesting to me too not just because of the conflict itself, but because of all the side issues and developments it has given birth to, and i mean its effects are being felt across the world, people felt the need to take sides, US hasnt been able to push countries opposed to it (voted against US interests on Ukraine in UN for e.g.). I just dont want any nukes to be used. Conventional fighting within UN legal war charter is all we can ask for at this time, and hopefully its not too much.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587139206127570944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587161919487721472

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587083136705482754
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587083136705482754
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587059169844203520



Nice try though passing an Ukrainian helicopter that crashed today (with the crew saved) with that wagner chopper downed. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587196492238012416

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> I had to work, so i was offline here. But, but, did the Kiew-Nato Regime managed to capture Cherson already?
> 
> Our "military man" said few months ago, the probability for Russia to hold Cherson would be 40%!?
> 
> 
> 
> Russia at the same time:



I never said Kherson is going to fall soon in fact, I said this back in September



jhungary said:


> *The problem is, to pull that off, Ukraine would need at least 2 times the Russian force, Russia has around 20k troop in the area, Ukraine is very tight lip about their formation, but general estimate usually put Ukrainian force at 5 to 6 Brigade, which is roughly 30,000 men. That is not enough to take on the defender. Unless Russia willingly retreats, this counter offensive is going to take a long time to complete. But all in all, unless Russia somehow manages to fix one of the bridges, I don't see how Russia can hold on indefinitely, they may be able to hold until winter came, but once fighting season start again next year, it will still be the same, their position is going to get pounded by HIMARS. And they would have problem bringing in reinforcement.*



I always said Ukraine *DON'T HAVE ENOUGH* troop to take Kherson directly. And it's quite clear, and I have stated numerous times, that Ukraine trying to encircle Kherson and starve them out this winter. While "I WISH" they would just evacuate Kherson and bomb it to rubble, but that's NOT what the Ukrainian do. And I had predicted Russia will have a hard time holding Kherson in the winter and would consider lucky if they still hold it After Winter

Winter *HAD NOT EVEN CAME* yet. So come back and say this again in Feb 2023 if Kherson still remain with Russia.

I can't be held responsible if you are too stupid to read. It ain't my problem

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## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> Ignore the wet dreams of keyboard commandos here. Everything is fun and games when it's not your own blood being spilt. So much death, so much destruction, the planned and orchestrated use of illegal force against a smaller, weaker and largely peaceful country to what end?
> 
> In the end Russia and it's might army, the image, the prestige, the ego has been neutered in Ukraine, and Russian blood is fertiliser for sunflowers on the fields of Ukraine.
> 
> *War: a massacre of people who don't know each other for the profit of people who know each other but don't massacre each other* - Paul Valery .



Don't forget Ukraine also sent forces in the Iraqi War for a peaceful country. It had a hand in the destruction of another. 

Honestly, the last twenty years have made me numb to all this.

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## Bengal71

PakFactor said:


> Don't forget Ukraine also sent forces in the Iraqi War for a peaceful country. It had a hand in the destruction of another.
> 
> Honestly, the last twenty years have made me numb to all this.



Yes but the Russians are not innocent either. They have occupied and oppressed Central Asian Muslim lands for many years and oppressed to the point those historic Muslim cities (Bukhara and Samarkand) are almost unrecognizable as Muslim countries, their people are almost unrecognizable as Muslims. Let the fight continue, the Europeans and Russians both shed too much Muslim blood over the last few centuries. Let them fight, we are not complaining.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587216834562072579

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## PakFactor

Bengal71 said:


> Yes but the Russians are not innocent either. They have occupied and oppressed Central Asian Muslim lands for many years and oppressed to the point those historic Muslim cities (Bukhara and Samarkand) are almost unrecognizable as Muslim countries, their people are almost unrecognizable as Muslims. *Let the fight continue, the Europeans and Russians both shed too much Muslim blood over the last few centuries. Let them fight, we are not complaining.*



I agree entirely, my friend. I support Iran policy, as they know you are better off keeping the fight there than here. The majority of Islamic countries, from what I see, have only given lip service to both sides. The issue I have is with peace lovers.

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587216834562072579


that was top attack , my guess it was a javelin that hit the tank and the crew of stugna-p only watched it (Stugna is beam riding and i don't think have top attack mode)



Bengal71 said:


> Yes but the Russians are not innocent either. They have occupied and oppressed Central Asian Muslim lands for many years and oppressed to the point those historic Muslim cities (Bukhara and Samarkand) are almost unrecognizable as Muslim countries, their people are almost unrecognizable as Muslims. Let the fight continue, the Europeans and Russians both shed too much Muslim blood over the last few centuries. Let them fight, we are not complaining.





PakFactor said:


> I completely agree my friend.


as i said the loner the war continue in the Europe the rest of the world will be calmer . let Europeans taste their own medicine .

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## Bengal71

PakFactor said:


> I agree entirely, my friend. I support Iran policy, as they know you are better off keeping the fight there than here. The majority of Islamic countries, from what I see, have only given lip service to both sides. The issue I have is with peace lovers.



Yes, it's stupid that Muslims are taking sides of the Russians or Europeans. They forget both parties are killers of Muslims. Muslims have no dog in the fight, we should cheer for both sides so they continue to fight for as long as possible.

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## ziaulislam

Primus said:


> You are talking to someone (also including zegerman) that have some of the shittest, most brain dead logic ever, which they use to fuel their islamophobic posts. No point in talking to them. They are full of shit


Bottom line might is right.

Israel openly say it occupies GOLAN height due to security reasons (,suprisnidont claim them but I think that's the basis of their water deal with Jordan/Arabs)

Similarly Russia will take their Russian speaking territories..that's written in stone. How long will that take at what cost is different story..



Hack-Hook said:


> that was top attack , my guess it was a javelin that hit the tank and the crew of stugna-p only watched it (Stugna is beam riding and i don't think have top attack mode)
> 
> 
> 
> as i said the loner the war continue in the Europe the rest of the world will be calmer . let Europeans taste their own medicine .


Problem is oil..oil will be expensive and grain will not come...


----------



## Paul2

Russians certainly got an order from above to show aggression all along the eastern front. Many sporadic attacks: simultaneous — yes, coordinated — no.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> There were talks in the US to send 200+ M109A6 currently being stored/used by National Guard to Ukraine. Me and @Oldman1 talked about it some months ago and it went nowhere.


They should send the M109s, whether its M109A5 or more modern. Perfect timing when in winter there is less foliage and easy to find Russian vehicles including their artillery. Especially in Kherson. I think I read that the Russians may be withdrawing their artillery to the eastern side of Dnipro because of this to be on the safe side from western artillery range especially HIMARS.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> I don't think longer range is good, these drone is slow, and mostly not stealth. The longer it travel only mean the more chances you got shot down.
> 
> Bear in mind Ukraine is not using loitering munition to attack Russian civilian target and infrastructure, which mean a well hidden troop can launch one of those drone toward enemy formation before they can react. So they don't need a lot of range. It does not work for the Ukrainian if you have to travel 1000km on a 100mph drone that Loud AF


Well the Russians tend to have a hard time covering all of Russian airspace. I mean you can see the previous attacks showing the Russian Crimea Navy HQ being hit by a drone. Attack on Russian oil refinery in Russia itself. Russia is a big country and there are limits to how much they can defend. Its not like they can cover every square km of Russian territory. There are still many rich targets in occupied Ukraine or Crimea as well as near Ukrainian border like logistic bases, airbases, barracks, naval bases, etc. Just saturate the targets as well with cheap drones.

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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> They should send the M109s, whether its M109A5 or more modern. Perfect timing when in winter there is less foliage and easy to find Russian vehicles including their artillery. Especially in Kherson. I think I read that the Russians may be withdrawing their artillery to the eastern side of Dnipro because of this to be on the safe side from western artillery range especially HIMARS.


the problem with less foliage is that Russians also can exploit it
another problem with m-109 is its shorter range that put it in the range of drones like lancet .
, i think if USA want to send artillery , they must send more artillery rockets and their launcher , that have longer range

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## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> the problem with less foliage is that Russians also can exploit it
> another problem with m-109 is its shorter range that put it in the range of drones like lancet .
> , i think if USA want to send artillery , they must send more artillery rockets and their launcher , that have longer range


Sure the Russians can exploit it, but the problem is the HIMARS with long range can destroy any spotted Russian artillery. And M109s are still useful for long range artillery with Excalibur and constantly shoot and scoot.

@jhungary

Whats the status of M198 or any other artillery units that can be provided? Also by any chance they can combine the Smart Shooter tech with lets say a .50 cal weapon (with more reach) on tripods or trucks with auto tracking capability being placed around critical structures against Shahed drones?


----------



## Oldman1

Viet said:


> The 300k mobi figure came from Shoigu. That’s obviously a fake. Putin signed the mobi decree with the real number classified as top secret.
> Realistic is 500,000. However Russia reserves are many millions. So the total mobi can be something between 500,000 and 5 million.


They can't even equipped the mobilize whether its 300k or 500k.

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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> Sure the Russians can exploit it, but the problem is the HIMARS with long range can destroy any spotted Russian artillery. And M109s are still useful for long range artillery with Excalibur and constantly shoot and scoot.


i wonder how good shoot and scoot strategy will be in open field on snow covered ground.

my concerns is not russian artillery , they are not that percise over 30km , but what about their drones like lancet


----------



## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> i wonder how good shoot and scoot strategy will be in open field on snow covered ground.
> 
> my concerns is not russian artillery , they are not that percise over 30km , but what about their drones like lancet


Not concerned about that. HIMARS against a Russian artillery battery and this was with foliage coverage. Imagine having none when drones with HIMARS in real time during winter.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587239063332986880

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## khansaheeb

Meanwhile in Kyiv:-









Ukraine war: Kyiv locals queue for water after Russian strikes


Missile attacks on key facilities across Ukraine on Monday cause power cuts and water shortages.



www.bbc.com





Ukraine war: Kyiv locals queue for water after Russian strikes​

Published
3 hours ago

Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war

Media caption,
Watch: Kyiv locals seen queuing for water
By Hugo Bachega in Kyiv & James FitzGerald
BBC News

*People in the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, had to queue for water after Russian missiles struck key facilities across the country on Monday.*
An evening update from the city's mayor, Vitaliy Klitschko, said 40% of consumers in Kyiv remained without water and 270,000 homes had no power.
Thirteen people were injured in the attacks nationwide, Ukraine said.
Russia said the strikes were aimed at Ukraine's military control and energy systems and that all targets were hit.
They were partly in response to an attack on a Russian warship over the weekend, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Monday.
ADVERTISEMENT

In its evening update, the Ukrainian military said it had shot down 45 out of 55 missiles that were launched.

For security reasons, the outside world is rarely shown the destruction of Ukraine's critical infrastructure by Russian airstrikes.
Ukrainian officials say this is to avoid sharing information that could be used in future attacks, including locations hit - or potentially missed.
But the consequences of Monday's strikes were everywhere to be seen. Rolling power cuts have been introduced in several regions.






Ukrainians in general have been urged to reduce what is already an "extremely frugal" electricity consumption, in the words of President Volodymyr Zelensky.
In Kyiv, street lights were turned off and trolleybuses replaced with conventional buses.
Long queues were seen across the city as residents lined up to collect water from pumps after their own supplies were cut.

As many as 80% of Kyiv's consumers were said to have been left without running water in the immediate aftermath of the attacks.
Later, Mr Zelensky said in his evening address that work was continuing to reconnect households with their services.
Russia did not have the missiles to destroy "the Ukrainian will to live", he added in a defiant message.
In addition to the capital, other areas affected by the strikes included Lviv, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Zaporizhzia.
Overall, 18 facilities - most of them energy-generating - were hit by missiles and drones in 10 regions, Ukrainian officials said.
One of the missiles intercepted by Ukraine's air defences landed in a border town in Moldova, causing damage to houses but no casualties, according to authorities in the neighbouring country.

Moldova later said a Russian embassy employee in Chisinau had been told to leave its territory, without specifying who the individual was.




Monday's strikes came after Russia blamed Ukraine for a drone attack on its Black Sea Fleet in the annexed Crimean peninsula over the weekend - a matter on which Kyiv has not commented.
Answering reporters' questions on Monday evening, President Putin confirmed that the strikes were partly intended as a retaliation.
He also said Russia had suspended, but not ended, its participation in a UN-brokered deal which allows safe passage to ships carrying grain from Ukrainian ports, although Ukraine said earlier on Monday that ships were continuing to depart, despite Russia's withdrawal from the deal.
The fresh wave of attacks was the latest example of what has become Russia's strategy in Ukraine: the targeting of the important infrastructure before winter, when temperatures can drop to -20C.
Ukraine says this is Russia's response to its military defeats, as the Ukrainian army takes back territory in a successful counter-offensive.
Ukrainian defence minister Oleksii Reznikov has linked the Russian campaign to Gen Sergei Surovikin, who was appointed by President Putin as his new commander in Ukraine earlier this month.

Who is Putin's hard-line new commander in Ukraine?
In a rare news conference last week, the minister said Russian forces had "changed their tactics" after the arrival of Gen Surovikin - whose nickname is Gen Armageddon - and "started openly fighting with the civilian population, not with the armed forces of Ukraine".
The goal, he said, was to inflict "chaos and panic" in the population, "when it's very cold and dark".
President Zelensky has described this tactic as "terrorism". Many Ukrainians say they are not afraid, though many are angry that civilians have again become the target.
Western leaders, including European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, have recently pointed out that deliberate strikes on key civilian infrastructure would constitute war crimes under treaties that define the "rules" of war, known as the Geneva Conventions. Moscow, however, denies culpability for any war crimes.
"Instead of fighting on the battlefield, Russia fights civilians," Dmytro Kuleba, the Ukrainian foreign minister, said on Monday morning - echoing a view shared by many of his compatriots.
Ukraine says it needs more air defence capabilities to defend its cities. Germany has already sent equipment, while the UK and the US have announced they will do so.
More on this story​
Russia halts grain deal after 'massive attack'

2 days ago






'Massive' drone attack on Black Sea Fleet - Russia

2 days ago






Inside US military cyber team’s defence of Ukraine

2 days ago






Related Topics​


----------



## gambit

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Most customers are not aware of the yield and only buy packaged chips which they expect will meet the specification.


Yield per wafer is a sign of process maturity and most customers do want to know how good are you at the job. But the customers that want to know the most are the fabless semicon companies such as Apple who design their own processors but farm out the manufacturing to TSMC who is a foundry. For a fabless semicon company, the foundry is an extension of its business, but the foundry also works for others, so what we have is called a 'process of record' (POR).



https://www.lexjansen.com/nesug/nesug09/po/PO11.pdf



The semiconductor process of the present fabrication facility features an analog CMOS 180nm technology *process-of-record (POR)* with a conventional aluminum – 0.5% copper interconnect architecture with 240nm interconnect line – space metal layer M1 design rules and five layers of metal interconnects.​








What's WAT? An overview of WAT/PCM data


Wafer Acceptance Testing (WAT) also known as Process Control Monitoring (PCM) data is data generated by the fab at the end of manufacturing and made available to the fabless customer for every wafer.




www.yieldhub.com





Wafer Acceptance Testing (WAT) also known as Process Control Monitoring (PCM) data is data generated by the Fab at the end of manufacturing and generally made available to the Fabless customer *for every wafer.*​
The POR governs how a wafer start and move to backend and is a *LEGAL* document. Depending on the agreement, TSMC may not change anything in the POR without Apple's approval. And Apple definitely want that yield per wafer record to know that TSMC is abiding by the agreement.

The yield per wafer is also a marketing tool to show potential clients of how good am I at producing at volume. Note the 'for every wafer' highlighted. TSMC may not be able to show potential clients the details of how much work they do for Apple, but the fact that Apple is their client speaks volumes of their capability.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> You claim that those with lower yield will be sold at a lower price than those products with a high yield.
> Why would anyone reject the lower priced product over the higher price product when both are sold based on the same specification?
> 
> The reality is that the high yield vendor with 100 chips need to charge the wafer processing cost / 100 per chip to break even, and the low yielding vendor with 10 chips per wafer need to charge wafer processing cost / 10 to break even.
> 
> *They need to charge 10x more due to the low yield.*


They can post any price they want, but if it is known that a company is below industry par, very few will buy.









Improving Production Yield in the Semiconductor Industry


Semiconductor companies can improve production yield through end-to-end digitization of operations, creation of digital twins for complete visibility, and AI-based cognitive intelligence and predictive maintenance.




www.infosys.com





Manufacturers need to meet high benchmarks to compete successfully. According to Bloomberg research, manufacturing yield rates below 90% are a cause of concern.​
The minimum marketable rate is %90. Dies that came from wafers that yielded below %90 will be sold at cost or even loss. Of course, the seller can try to hide that fact and charge a premium price, but if that deception is ever known, that seller will be blackballed for yrs.









Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia


What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame




www.theregister.com





Quoting an anonymous source, Kommersant states that before Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine the defect rate in imported silicon was two percent. Since that war commenced, Russian manufacturers have apparently faced 40 percent failure rates.​
This story will have negative impact on Chinese sellers, on China, and finally on Asia. Over the long term, trust in China's semicon business practices *WILL* erode, and trust in Asia as a stable source location will be reassessed.

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## sammuel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587195000282091522




Sure , a day after the attack , they just decided to anchor all the battle ships together ,side by side , like ducks in a shooting range.

As reliable as the rest of your reports.






~

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## Viet

donations by Slovenia
28 tanks 










*Slovenia sends its fleet of M-55S main battle tanks to Ukraine in the framework of military aid. (Picture source Twitter account Ukraine Weapons Tracker)*


----------



## Viet

sammuel said:


> Sure , a day after the attack , they just decided to anchor all the battle ships together ,side by side , like ducks in a shooting range.
> 
> As reliable as the rest of your reports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Obviously a fake

Ships have no hull number, no name. they are photoshopped out.

Probably they took old years old photographs, and re-edited. Good old days when Putin was busy selling oil and gas to Europe. No more.

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## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> WTF???
> DO YOU HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING INTERNATIONAL LAW???
> EVEN ISRAEL DOESNT SAY GOLAN HEIGHT ARE DISPUTED???
> 
> WOW


Israel says that they have the right to Golan, because it was part of the British Mandate, which then the British illegally ”swapped” with the French.
It should not have been part of Syria in the first place.
After annexation, Israel of course does not consider it disputed.
Others may disagree.


----------



## ZeGerman

Oh now we are “hypocrites” for not showing a similar reaction to the “golan heights”. 

Context and scale matters, simple as that.
1. Arab nations repeatedly tried to destroy israel and ethnically cleanse its population. Far from clear “victims”. 

Ukraine on other hand suffered through the holodomir (millions starved) and now is attacked by its former coloniser..again. 

2.1200 square miles of the heights were taken. Russia annexed 100 times that amount. Causing 100 times more displaced civilians. 

3. Golan heights annexation happened 60 years ago. The ongoing invasion of ukraine happens in our time. 

There…i explained why i am not equally foaming at the mouth over “golan heights”. 
Now…please…tell me how the **** you guys can morally justify russia’s agression on ukraine…while shedding big tears over a minute speck of land that was lost 60 years ago? 

I know the answer…a disgusting callous disregard of lives that do not belong to your cult/tribe. The morally corrupt preaching about “the west”….

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## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> Oh now we are “hypocrites” for not showing a similar reaction to the “golan heights”.
> 
> Context and scale matters, simple as that.
> 1. Arab nations repeatedly tried to destroy israel and ethnically cleanse its population. Far from clear “victims”.
> 
> Ukraine on other hand suffered through the holodomir (millions starved) and now is attacked by its former coloniser..again.
> 
> 2.1200 square miles of the heights were taken. Russia annexed 100 times that amount. Causing 100 times more displaced civilians.
> 
> 3. Golan heights annexation happened 60 years ago. The ongoing invasion of ukraine happens in our time.
> 
> There…i explained why i am not equally foaming at the mouth over “golan heights”.
> Now…please…tell me how the **** you guys can morally justify russia’s agression on ukraine…while shedding big tears over a minute speck of land that was lost 60 years ago?
> 
> I know the answer…a disgusting callous disregard of lives that do not belong to your cult/tribe. The morally corrupt preaching about “the west”….


@ziaulislam 

My point has just been proven

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## ZeGerman

Primus said:


> @ziaulislam
> 
> My point has just been proven


Again no answer. Not suprising. 

When discussing morality surrounding russia’s invasion…you only sink to whataboutisms (a fallacy in discussion).

Attacking others as hypocrites/islamophobes while in fact the eu supports a realistic moderate solution





The European Union and Palestine | EEAS Website


The Office of the European Union Representative of West Bank and Gaza Strip, UNRWA.




www.eeas.europa.eu





And is one of the largest donors 








Palestine: EU announces €261 million in support of UNRWA's operations


The European Union confirmed today its role as a long-standing, predictable and reliable partner of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) and one of its largest donors.




neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu





You attack that…while at the same time cheering how iranian kamikaze drones blow up civilian infrastructure. “No water and heating for those ukranian civilians! ”

Its crystal clear that some lives mean very little and some mean a lot more for you. Far far worse then the double standards in the west.

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## A.P. Richelieu

gambit said:


> Yield per wafer is a sign of process maturity and most customers do want to know how good are you at the job. But the customers that want to know the most are the fabless semicon companies such as Apple who design their own processors but farm out the manufacturing to TSMC who is a foundry. For a fabless semicon company, the foundry is an extension of its business, but the foundry also works for others, so what we have is called a 'process of record' (POR).
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.lexjansen.com/nesug/nesug09/po/PO11.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> The semiconductor process of the present fabrication facility features an analog CMOS 180nm technology *process-of-record (POR)* with a conventional aluminum – 0.5% copper interconnect architecture with 240nm interconnect line – space metal layer M1 design rules and five layers of metal interconnects.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's WAT? An overview of WAT/PCM data
> 
> 
> Wafer Acceptance Testing (WAT) also known as Process Control Monitoring (PCM) data is data generated by the fab at the end of manufacturing and made available to the fabless customer for every wafer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yieldhub.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wafer Acceptance Testing (WAT) also known as Process Control Monitoring (PCM) data is data generated by the Fab at the end of manufacturing and generally made available to the Fabless customer *for every wafer.*​
> The POR governs how a wafer start and move to backend and is a *LEGAL* document. Depending on the agreement, TSMC may not change anything in the POR without Apple's approval. And Apple definitely want that yield per wafer record to know that TSMC is abiding by the agreement.
> 
> The yield per wafer is also a marketing tool to show potential clients of how good am I at producing at volume. Note the 'for every wafer' highlighted. TSMC may not be able to show potential clients the details of how much work they do for Apple, but the fact that Apple is their client speaks volumes of their capability.
> 
> 
> They can post any price they want, but if it is known that a company is below industry par, very few will buy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Improving Production Yield in the Semiconductor Industry
> 
> 
> Semiconductor companies can improve production yield through end-to-end digitization of operations, creation of digital twins for complete visibility, and AI-based cognitive intelligence and predictive maintenance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.infosys.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manufacturers need to meet high benchmarks to compete successfully. According to Bloomberg research, manufacturing yield rates below 90% are a cause of concern.​
> The minimum marketable rate is %90. Dies that came from wafers that yielded below %90 will be sold at cost or even loss. Of course, the seller can try to hide that fact and charge a premium price, but if that deception is ever known, that seller will be blackballed for yrs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese distributors reportedly dump dud chips on Russia
> 
> 
> What? Sanctions-busting sellers aren't interested in your complaints? That's a shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theregister.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting an anonymous source, Kommersant states that before Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine the defect rate in imported silicon was two percent. Since that war commenced, Russian manufacturers have apparently faced 40 percent failure rates.​
> This story will have negative impact on Chinese sellers, on China, and finally on Asia. Over the long term, trust in China's semicon business practices *WILL* erode, and trust in Asia as a stable source location will be reassessed.


Nothing in this is relevant to any company ordering from let’s say Digikey.


----------



## ziaulislam

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Israel says that they have the right to Golan, because it was part of the British Mandate, which then the British illegally ”swapped” with the French.
> It should not have been part of Syria in the first place.
> After annexation, Israel of course does not consider it disputed.
> Others may disagree.


Israel should have to right to someone land because colonizer said so.

Now you now why Asians and Africans support Russian war depsite then being affected due to oil and food shortage. Because of people like you.

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## serenity

sammuel said:


> Sure , a day after the attack , they just decided to anchor all the battle ships together ,side by side , like ducks in a shooting range.
> 
> As reliable as the rest of your reports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~





Viet said:


> Obviously a fake
> 
> Ships have no hull number, no name. they are photoshopped out.
> 
> Probably they took old years old photographs, and re-edited. Good old days when Putin was busy selling oil and gas to Europe. No more.



Possibly but Russia also would not be able to hide destroyed ships if that happened. It would be visible by aerial reconnaissance and certainly visible to many nations in space. They have not showed the destroyed ships and many nations have an interest in showing it.


----------



## ziaulislam

No wonder French are still the good guys depsite killing more people then natzis in Algeria

Only difference between Hitler, Churchill and french chancellors is where they conducted genocide.

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## Reashot Xigwin

ziaulislam said:


> Israel should have to right to someone land because colonizer said so.
> 
> Now you now why Asians and Africans support Russian war depsite then being affected due to oil and food shortage. Because of people like you.


There's only like 5 countries that support the Russian invasion...

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## _Nabil_

The "Garden" needs the "Jungle", ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586616144458387458

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## Reashot Xigwin

The russians upgraded their soldier lodging from Pig pens to cowshed. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587133800764407808
Maybe that Hitler bloke wasn't wrong to call Russian Sub-human.

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> Possibly but Russia also would not be able to hide destroyed ships if that happened. It would be visible by aerial reconnaissance and certainly visible to many nations in space. They have not showed the destroyed ships and many nations have an interest in showing it.


You can hide a sunken ship, in fact, the Russian tried to hide the fact that Moskva was sunk, and we don't have any picture of Moskva being sunk other than the one picture that show the armament room was damaged and was listing to the port.

On the other hand, I don't believe the Russian ship is sunk, it will take a calculated hit to sink a modern frigate in 1 hit. It may have been possible if the ship is hit by an anti-ship missile, but it's nearly impossible to be sunk by a single steering torpedo. Admiral Makarov is highly possible damaged in a quite severe degree, judging by the distant between the USV and the ship, it's likely even without a direct hit (The drone was within 10 ft to the ship before the feed cut), the ship would have been suffered blast damage akin to what USS Cole suffered.

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## ZeGerman

Primus said:


> I have many answers for you but I thought is it really worth it to debate you? You are clearly a graduate of the university of Wikipedia and quora. Graduating with full honours in the subject of whataboutism and pulling things from his ***.
> 
> Your entire logic can literally be used against you and you don't even realise it. You fool
> 
> 
> Also I haven't spoke one bit on the matter of Ukraine and the infrastructure attacks . That's you just saying it


Ad hominem again.

And you did not directly talk on the infrastructure, but being a poodle/cheerleader for those who do. Derailing the thread with whataboutisms and ad hominems as you go.

Now back to the subject at hand, ukraine. Where 100 times the golan heights have been annexed by colonialist russia.

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## Reashot Xigwin

🤣

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586829089653997568
👍🦃🇹🇷

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587090567191830531

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## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> Ad hominem again.


Cope


ZeGerman said:


> And you did not directly talk on the infrastructure, but being a poodle/cheerleader for those who do. Derailing the thread with whataboutisms and ad hominems as you go.


Oh I'm the one derailing the thread? It's literally you using the Russian invasion of Ukraine to justify the atrocities committed by israel against Palestine and Gaza. Literally using what about ism as means of justification, yet here you are saying I do what about ism. Lol what a smooth brain.

On top of that your islamophobic logic is so dumb. Replace Muslim with non Muslim and see what happens. Kek

Also no, I'm neither a 'poodle' nor 'cheerleader' for the attacks against infrastructure. As I said, I have made no comments wrt those attacks. A baseless accusation to try and demonise and ultimately disregard my points. Gg wp


ZeGerman said:


> Now back to the subject at hand, ukraine. Where 100 times the golan heights have been annexed by colonialist russia.


Whataboutism again without you even realising what a smooth brain 🙃

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## Reashot Xigwin

Exhibit 30 why Russians are losing

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587349408206786561

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587147563031044096

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587418911066230784






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587388144206467074

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587432154388217857

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## zartosht

*Qatar is laughing at the EU price cap*

Imagine the arrogance one must have to be a euro. Its like going into a store, and start putting your own prices on products and telling the owner ill only be paying half price and taking it home. And this in a busy store with an endless lineup.

At some point the euros passed the arrogance line and crossed miles into the delusion line. What else to expect from people who dont know the difference between a man and a woman?

Meanwhile US’ “freedom gas” “democrayzzzz gas” is still flowing at 4x times the US domestic rate. With the euro sissies dutifully paying and no talk of a “price cap”.

No price cap for blue eyed garden countries. Only brown eyed jungle countries get the cap according to civilized garden europe

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## Shawnee

Reashot Xigwin said:


> 🤣
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586829089653997568
> 👍🦃🇹🇷
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587090567191830531



If Russia does not hit it:
Erdogan rules these waters haha

If Russia hits it:
Motherf Putin hit the civilian ships. Nazis

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## Reashot Xigwin

Anybody here want to throw peanuts at the Russians when theyre caged in the zoo? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587427026880937986


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587434563013320705

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## Reashot Xigwin

Shawnee said:


> If Russia does not hit it:
> Erdogan rules these waters haha
> 
> If Russia hits it:
> Motherf Putin hit the civilian ships. Nazis


LOL Russian doesn't even have a navy


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## sammuel

serenity said:


> Possibly but Russia also would not be able to hide destroyed ships if that happened. It would be visible by aerial reconnaissance and certainly visible to many nations in space. They have not showed the destroyed ships and many nations have an interest in showing it.



It is always best to wait a few days with those things , till the picture clears.

~


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## zartosht

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Anybody here want to throw peanuts at the Russians when theyre caged in the zoo?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587427026880937986



Let me guess the tweeter is one of the “intellectual western thinkers” who doesnt know what a man/woman is? And is trying to label every other non-delusional human a bigot for knowing the difference?






Us supreme court judge






She is right. Death is better then to live in the disgusting world the west is creating with their lgbtq+feces obsession and mutilating children and on and on

Imagine what the world would look like if western lgbtq culture took over everywhere?

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> All my posts on matters outside ukraine have been a direct response to others bringing these subjects in.


So you are saying that others started the whataboutism so to 'defeat' them, you use your own whataboutism. Got it.


ZeGerman said:


> A response to a whataboutism, or pointing out whataboutism is different from making the fallacy yourself einstein.


How is it different Mr whataboutism? All I see is you responding to what about ism with your own whataboutism, using it as a means for justification for israeli occupation and atrocities against the people if Palestine and people of Gaza.


ZeGerman said:


> “Islamophobic” trash accusation.
> So you never have to look into the mirror or learn from critiscism.


Someone upset that I called him an Islamophobe?

There is a very big difference between Islamophobia and criticism. Criticism is intended to help the other person or whatever, improve in their field. It usually happens when the person criticising has knowledge of said particular field, hence the improvement part.

You are not doing criticism. You are being a douche. Calling Muslims barbarians and backwards isn't criticism. It's just you directing cheap insults at Muslims under the guise of criticism. You clearly have no knowledge of Islam...actually let me rephrase. You clearly got your Islamic education from Wikipedia and quora, which as we know, are full of 💩, and you are clearly not suggesting any improvements. But please, lecture us on morality and not being 'backwards' despite the latter being entirely based on the person's point of view.


ZeGerman said:


> You stay quiet on russian atrocities.
> Just poodling along with whataboutisms and adhominems when one points out that attacks to “freeze ukranian civilians” is immoral. Sad stuff.


Haha what a fool. There are many atrocities committed by both sides of this war that I haven't commented on. Wanna know why? Because I don't support either side in this conflict. It's a stupid war that didn't need to be fought. I am ultimately neutral. Both sides are idiots, causing civilian casualties on each other.



ZeGerman said:


> See above. You have the logic of a toddler…


As do you smooth brain

Anyways, enjoy the ignore list 😁

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## Reashot Xigwin

zartosht said:


> Let me guess the tweeter is one of the “intellectual western thinkers” who doesnt know what a man/woman is? And is trying to label every other non-delusional human a bigot for knowing the difference?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Us supreme court judge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She is right. Death is better then to live in the disgusting world the west is creating with their lgbtq+feces obsession and mutilating children and on and on
> 
> Imagine what the world would look like if western lgbtq culture took over everywhere?


Fun fact: Did you know that ship have gender... 









Why do ships have a gender?


The naming conventions of the Royal Navy are part of a long tradition but other navies have a different approach.




www.iwm.org.uk


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## _Nabil_

Butt hurt still winning 😂



https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/01/politics/iran-missiles-russia/index.html


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587361634992922625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587361784289181698

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587361266779275264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587360375321788417

Reactions: Love Love:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> no Egypt didn't blockade Israel , it only closed its territorial water to Israeli ships , the Israeli ships could sail between KSA and Tiran Island instead of Egypt and Tiran Island , Israel could use Mediterranean sea .
> perhaps you are aware that right of innocent passage won't include enemy nations
> 
> by the way as far as I'm aware Iran don't build a uav called Geran-2 or Geran-1 also Ukraine also used Iranian weapon so you can't say one side of war


Stopping ”innocent passage” is a blockade and an act of war.



ziaulislam said:


> Israel should have to right to someone land because colonizer said so.
> 
> Now you now why Asians and Africans support Russian war depsite then being affected due to oil and food shortage. Because of people like you.


The EU has not recognized the annexation of the Golan Heights.
I am simply stating the Israeli position.

So You support an illegal war because of ?

Well it appears that you are taking the tribal route.

- We hate the West Tribe.
- Russia attack Ukraine
- The West tribe support the sovereign right of Ukraine Tribe
- Therefore we hate the Ukraine tribe.

* Way to go…

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## ziaulislam

Reashot Xigwin said:


> There's only like 5 countries that support the Russian invasion...


No more then half.
Look at UN assembly votes every body abstained? Why?

Then look at voting against Israel condemning none abstains

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587468118598762496

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine shoots down two Russian choppers in three minutes​








Ukraine shoots down two Russian choppers in three minutes


Anti-aircraft gunners hit the Ka-52 Alligators in Kherson region yesterday evening, Ukraine's Air Force said.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> it was 2 helicopters Russian's lost - not one...

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## Viet

Wunderwaffe made in Germany
Russia terror attack comes to an end.
Iris T intercepted 16 missiles.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587153373068988419


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## Reashot Xigwin

ziaulislam said:


> No more then half.
> Look at UN assembly votes every body abstained? Why?
> 
> Then look at voting against Israel condemning none abstains


You high man?

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586939404073017346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587081303551344640

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> no Egypt didn't blockade Israel , it only closed its territorial water to Israeli ships , the Israeli ships could sail between KSA and Tiran Island instead of Egypt and Tiran Island



There was no such option ,, don't invent stuff.


----------



## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine shoots down two Russian choppers in three minutes​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine shoots down two Russian choppers in three minutes
> 
> 
> Anti-aircraft gunners hit the Ka-52 Alligators in Kherson region yesterday evening, Ukraine's Air Force said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> it was 2 helicopters Russian's lost - not one...


What happens to Putin’s choppers? They fall down like dead flies. 3 choppers destroyed, 2 damaged in northwest of Moscow. 900km from Kiew.









Ukraine: Drei Hubschrauber nordwestlich von Moskau zerstört


Seit Beginn des Überfalls auf die Ukraine verliert Russland mehr als ein Viertel aller seiner Kampfhubschrauber Ka-52. Durch eine Explosion werden nun zwei weitere sowie eine Мi-28N zerstört. Das Besondere an dem Vorfall: Er ereignet sich im Nordwesten Russlands, Hunderte Kilometer von der...




amp.n-tv.de










Ein Hubschrauber des Typs Ka-52 kostet nach ukrainischen Angaben rund 16 Millionen US-Dollar.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Beyond parody... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587412820181893123

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> What happens to Putin’s choppers? They fall down like dead flies. 3 choppers destroyed, 2 damaged in northwest of Moscow. 900km from Kiew.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Drei Hubschrauber nordwestlich von Moskau zerstört
> 
> 
> Seit Beginn des Überfalls auf die Ukraine verliert Russland mehr als ein Viertel aller seiner Kampfhubschrauber Ka-52. Durch eine Explosion werden nun zwei weitere sowie eine Мi-28N zerstört. Das Besondere an dem Vorfall: Er ereignet sich im Nordwesten Russlands, Hunderte Kilometer von der...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.n-tv.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ein Hubschrauber des Typs Ka-52 kostet nach ukrainischen Angaben rund 16 Millionen US-Dollar.



(the below is the same as your report with video's )

Looks like a UAF Special Ops team also destroyed a further 2 Ka-52#s behind enemy lines at a Russian Airbase !!!!!! :









Watch: Ukrainian saboteurs destroy two Ka-52 helicopters at Russian air base


The daring raid, 500 miles from the Ukrainian border, also severely damaged two other choppers at the Veretye base in the Pskov region




www.telegraph.co.uk





The raid, 500 miles from the Ukrainian border, also severely damaged two other choppers at the Veretye base in the Pskov region

Video of the Act !!!!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587182889002827780
UAF has no operational Ka-52's... so this was "bedhind enemy lines" for sure...

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## Reashot Xigwin

Watch till the end for the funny part 🤭

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587468647097827328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587430421452791810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587374200746115073

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## The SC




----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587555715270512647


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587515367873724416


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587471736999665664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587562960796385281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587550884711596037

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587527578243547137

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elijah Manson

How Is Russia Faring Against NATO Equipment In Ukraine? A Tally







www.oryxspioenkop.com












Lost In Lies: Keeping Track Of Russian Propaganda Claims







www.oryxspioenkop.com

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587527578243547137



Lol. At this, I’m sure the soil of Iraq is cursing itself for being where it’s at — just like Hannibal was on Roman minds as a living nightmare, these f*ck clowns in US goverment have nightmare of Iraqis.


----------



## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> Lol. At this, I’m sure the soil of Iraq is cursing itself for being where it’s at — just like Hannibal was on Roman minds as a living nightmare, these f*ck clowns in US goverment have nightmare of Iraqis.


Or he is just really, like really old, he still think he was the VP. 

lol

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587578411693887489

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587418911066230784


Yeah right. Like that's going to stop production of 155 shells and GLMRS missiles. Besides other heavy equipment.

@jhungary 

Just saw on twitter that the force civilian evacuation in Kherson City may be related to housing or quartering Russian troops during the winter since the Russian military can't provide enough winter equipment. What's your thought on that? Easier to kill dozens or even hundreds of Russian troops bunking together.


----------



## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> as i said the loner the war continue in the Europe the rest of the world will be calmer . let Europeans taste their own medicine .


Thats not how it worked last 2 World Wars. You think what starts in Europe stays in Europe. Some countries in the other regions could exploit the distraction. Invade the countries they have their eyes on for awhile but couldn't.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 31​Oct 31, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, October 31
Karolina Hird, Katherine Lawlor, George Barros, and Frederick W. Kagan
October 31, 9:00 pm ET
Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces conducted another massive wave of missiles strikes targeting critical Ukrainian infrastructure across the country on October 31, likely in an attempt to degrade Ukraine’s will to fight as temperatures drop. *Russian forces fired over 50 Kh-101 and Kh-555 missiles from the northern Caspian Sea and the Volgodonsk region of Rostov Oblast, targeting critical Ukrainian energy infrastructure.[1] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian air defenses shot down 44 out of over 50 Russian missiles.[2] Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal reported that the strikes damaged 18 mostly energy-related targets across 10 Ukrainian regions.[3] Ukrainian officials reported that Russian strikes cut off water to 80% of Kyiv residents on October 31 and left hundreds of thousands without power.[4]
*Russian occupation officials once again shifted their rhetoric regarding the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (HPP) and are likely setting information conditions to continue to drive evacuations from the west bank of the Dnipro River and provide rhetorical cover for a Russian withdrawal from the area.* Kherson Occupation Head Vladimir Saldo announced on October 31 that his administration is expanding the evacuation zone by 15km from the Dnipro River and cited information that Ukraine is preparing for a “massive missile attack” of the Kakhovka HPP dam, which Saldo alleged will cause massive flooding and destruction of civilian infrastructure.[5] Saldo previously claimed on October 26 that it would be “practically impossible” to destroy the dam and that even in case of a breach, the water level of the Dnipro River would only rise 2 meters.[6]
The apparent oscillation in Saldo’s position on the Kakhovka HPP indicates that his administration is likely using threats of breach and flooding to perpetuate an information operation with a two-fold purpose: to drive evacuations from the west bank and to explain away a future Russian withdrawal from the west bank. These is no scenario in which it would be advantageous for Ukraine to blow the dam. The ramifications that such an action would have on the safety of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP), which relies on the water in the Kakhovka reservoir for coolant, and the economic and social implications of flooding over 80 settlements and destroying civilian homes and viable land, entirely preclude the possibility that this is a contingency Ukraine may pursue. Blowing the dam would also make it much harder for Ukrainian forces to achieve their stated aims of liberating the remainder of Kherson Oblast and other territories east of the river. Saldo’s statements are likely therefore meant to encourage residents of the west bank to promptly evacuate and may also establish informational cover for a Russian withdrawal from the west bank. Saldo could be framing the dam explosion as an inevitable and insurmountable obstacle that Russian forces could only avoid by abandoning the west bank and retreating further into Kherson Oblast. Russia’s ability or willingness to physically damage the dam is relatively immaterial—the informational effects of accusing Ukraine of preparing to blow the dam could be sufficient to create rhetorical cover to explain away any future Russian withdrawals.
*Russian forces are likely continuing to move troops and military assets across the Dnipro River in anticipation of Ukrainian advances towards Kherson City. *Ukrainian military sources reported on October 30 that Russian forces are preparing to move artillery units and weapons from the west bank of the Dnipro River for possible redeployment in other directions.[7] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command additionally noted on October 31 that Russian forces are preparing to evacuate individual units and military equipment from the west bank and have collected watercraft to facilitate the evacuation.[8] Russian-backed Kherson occupation deputy Kirill Stremousov stated that on October 30 Russian forces also began engineering positions in Bilozerka (6km due west of Kherson City) and Chornobaivka (1km north of Kherson City), which is corroborated by imagery posted by reported Russian collaborators of barbed wire defenses in these areas.[9] The fact that Russian collaborators are preparing to defend Chornobaivka is particularly noteworthy, as Chornobaivka is the last settlement along the M14 north of Kherson City. The current frontline lies less than 20km northwest of Chornobaivka, and active efforts to bolster defense here indicate concern for an imminent Ukrainian advance. The simultaneous evacuation of military assets from the west bank and preparations for the defense of critical areas around Kherson City indicate serious anxiety over Russian control of the west bank.
*Wagner financier Yevgeny Prigozhin continued his efforts to increase his status among Russian elites and his presence in St. Petersburg by attacking local officials and announcing the creation of a PMC Wagner Center in St. Petersburg on October 31. *Prigozhin reportedly requested on October 31 that the Russian Prosecutor General’s office open a criminal investigation into the “fact” that St. Petersburg Governor Alexander Beglov organized a “criminal community” in St. Petersburg.[10] Prigozhin alleged that Beglov’s criminal network intends to plunder the state budget and enrich corrupt officials. Prigozhin is likely using his criticism of Beglov and other St. Petersburg politicians to enhance his own reputation—and his campaign may be working. The publication _Petersburg Vestnik_ characterized Prigozhin’s popularity as “skyrocketing” on October 31 and asked if he had any plans to form a party or go into politics, to which Prigozhin replied “I do not strive for popularity. My task is to fulfill my duty to the Motherland, and today I do not plan to create any parties, let alone go into politics.”[11]
Prigozhin may or may not create his own political party, but he is establishing himself as a political force, using his popular status and his affiliation with Wagner to critique his opponents within elite circles and to institutionalize his own authority. Prigozhin criticized Russian “oligarchs” and “elites” on October 31 for living in a “state of comfort” and preventing the full mobilization of Russian society: “until [elites’] children go to war, the full mobilization of the country will not happen.”[12] Prigozhin also announced the creation of a “PMC Wagner Center” in St. Petersburg on October 31, which he said is scheduled to open on November 4.[13] Prigozhin described the center as “a complex of buildings in which there are places for free accommodation of inventors, designers, IT specialists, experimental production, and start-up spaces” with the intention of creating a “comfortable environment for generating new ideas in order to increase the defense capability of Russia, including information.” Prigozhin noted that he did not inform the local St. Petersburg administration of the center’s creation because the local government is not a “sufficiently representative structure to interfere with the work of the PMC Wagner Center.” Prigozhin challenged local government officials who have problems with his center to take them up in court and suggested that he will establish new branches if the St. Petersburg branch is successful. Private military companies like Wagner are illegal per the Russian constitution.[14]
*Key Takeaways * 

*Russian forces launched another massive wave of strikes against critical Ukrainian infrastructure, further damaging the power grid and leaving much of Kyiv without water.*
*Russian officials again changed their minds about the risk of Ukrainian forces destroying the Kakhovka dam, ordering evacuations of areas that could be flooded. There is no scenario in which Ukraine would benefit from destroying the dam, and this rhetoric is likely meant to speed evacuations and provide informational cover for Russian withdrawals from the west bank.*
*Russian forces are continuing to withdraw from the west bank of the Dnipro River even as they set conditions to fight for positions around Kherson City.*
*Wagner Private Military Company financier Evgeniy Prigozhin sought to bring charges against the St. Petersburg mayor for corruption and announced the imminent opening of the PMC Wagner Center in St. Petersburg. Prigozhin also attacked “oligarchs” and “elites” for living in comfort and preventing the full mobilization of Russia.*
*Russian sources continued to claim that Ukrainian troops conducted counter-offensive operations in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast and along the Svatove-Kreminna line on October 30 and 31.*
*Russian forces continued defensive operations and Russian sources reported that Ukrainian forces continued counter-offensive operations in Kherson Oblast on October 30 and 31.*
*The Ukrainian interdiction campaign is reportedly damaging Russian forces exfiltrating across the Dnipro River.*
*Russian forces continued ground attacks around Bakhmut on October 30 and 31.*
*Russian sources claimed that Russian troops made incremental gains in the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area on October 30 and 31, but ISW cannot verify these claims.*
*The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) is likely attempting to prevent draft dodging by trying to deceive the Russian population into believing that autumn conscripts will not be sent to fight in Ukraine.*
*The MoD also announced the end of partial mobilization on October 31, executing Russian President Vladimir Putin’s order to end mobilization by the end of October*
*Local Russian governments remain responsible for even basic provisions to mobilized personnel, demonstrating the inefficiency of crowdfunding efforts and uncoordinated supply lines to support a modern military.*
*Russian occupation authorities in Kherson Oblast announced that they would allow the use of Ukrainian hryvnias alongside Russian rubles, demonstrating the failure of their monthslong rubleization efforts in Kherson.*
*Russian officials continue to create poor conditions in occupied parts of Kherson Oblast, likely to drive local inhabitants to evacuate.*

*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counter-offensives—Southern and Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts)
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counter-offensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Eastern Kharkiv Oblast-Western Luhansk Oblast)*
Russian sources continued to claim that Ukrainian troops conducted counter-offensive operations in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast on October 30 and 31. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and Russian milbloggers claimed on October 30 that Ukrainian forces conducted a series of unsuccessful assaults around Orlianka, Tabaivka, and Berestove, all within 30km northwest of Svatove.[15] The Russian MoD also claimed that Russian troops repelled Ukrainian attacks northwest of Svatove in the Kupyansk area on October 31.[16] A Russian milblogger reported that Ukrainian troops are preparing for another offensive in that direction on the Orlianka-Pershotravneve line.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff notably stated that Russian troops attacked Mykolaivka and Novoselivske, both about 30km northwest of Svatove, indicating that Ukrainian troops have advanced east of the Kupyansk area.[18]
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian troops continued counter-offensive operations along the Svatove-Kreminna line on October 30 and 31. The Russian MoD and Russian milbloggers claimed that Russian troops repelled Ukrainian attacks on Stelmakhivka (15km northwest of Svatove) and Makiivka (22km northwest of Kreminna) on October 30.[19] Geolocated footage posted on October 30 showed the aftermath of an explosion of a bridge across the Krasne River in Krasnorichenske, 15km north of Kreminna, suggesting that Russian forces may be conducting a deliberate withdrawal from settlements north of Kreminna in anticipation of Ukrainian advances.[20] Russian milbloggers additionally claimed that Ukrainian troops attacked Chervonopopivka (5km northwest of Kreminna) on October 30 and 31.[21] The Ukrainian General Staff noted on October 31 that Russian troops shelled Ploshchanka (15km northwest of Kreminna), indicating that Ukrainian troops are continuing to advance towards the R66 Svatove-Kreminna highway north of Kreminna.[22] Russian milbloggers continued to claim that Russian troops, including elements of the BARS-13 Combat Reserve are holding the defense of Kreminna and pushing Ukrainian troops away from the frontline.[23]
Ukrainian and Russian sources discussed offensive operations south of Kreminna around Lysychansk on October 30 and 31. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian troops repelled a Russian attack on Bilohorivka, 10km south of Kreminna.[24] A Russian milblogger claimed on October 31 that Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance groups are probing Russian defenses near Bilohorivka.[25]



*Southern Ukraine: (Kherson Oblast)*
Russian forces continued defensive operations in Kherson Oblast on October 30 and 31. Ukrainian military sources reported that Russian troops are conducting remote mining of areas near the Kherson Oblast frontline, evacuating military assets to the east bank of the Dnipro River, and reforming units (likely adding newly mobilized reservists to reconstitute shell units).[26] Russian sources additionally claimed on October 31 that Russian troops are engineering positions northwest of Kherson City and preparing for defensive operations there. Social media imagery shows reported Russian collaborators installing barbed wire to strengthen defensive positions north of Kherson City in Chornobaivka and west of Kherson City in Bilozerka.[27]
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian troops continued counter-offensive operations in Kherson Oblast on October 30 and 31. Russian sources reported that Ukrainian forces attempted to break through Russian lines in the Beryslav Raion — the area where Russian lines are currently stretched the furthest — on October 31.[28] Russian sources reported that elements of the Russian Eastern Military District, special forces, and airborne forces repelled Ukrainian attacks near Davydiv Brid on October 30.[29] The Russian MoD claimed on October 31 that Ukrainian troops attacked Russian troops along the current frontline northwest of Beryslav.[30] The Ukrainian General Staff reported on October 31 that Russian forces shelled near previously Russian-claimed Ternovi Pody, Mykolaiv Oblast, (20km northwest of Chornobaivka) on October 31, indicating a possible Ukrainian advance.[31] Video posted on October 30 reportedly shows Ukrainian forces clearing Russian mines in an unspecified area of Kherson Oblast, indicating ongoing Ukrainian efforts to advance into Russian-held territory.[32]
The Ukrainian interdiction campaign is reportedly damaging Russian forces exfiltrating across the Dnipro River. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported on October 31 that Ukrainian fires destroyed two barges that Russian forces used to transport Russian forces from the west (right) bank to the east (left) bank near the Antonivsky Bridge at an unspecified time last week.[33] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command additionally reported that Ukrainian forces conducted 156 fire missions on October 30 and struck two Russian ammunition warehouses in Beryslav and Bashtanka raions.[34] The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed that Russian forces intercepted six Ukrainian AGM-88 HARM anti-radar missiles near Antonivka on October 30.[35]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued ground attacks around Bakhmut on October 30 and 31. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian troops repelled Russian attacks on Bakhmut itself, Yakovlivka (16km northeast of Bakhmut), Bakhmutske (10km northeast of Soledar), and Mayorsk (20km south of Bakhmut) between October 30 and 31.[36] Russian Wagner Group–affiliated media outlet _RIAFAN _posted a report from the Bakhmut area on October 30 and claimed that intense fighting is ongoing south of Bakhmut and that Wagner Group forces sometimes only advance 500 meters a day.[37] As ISW reported on October 28, Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prighozin previously stated that Wagner forces are only advancing 100–200 meters per day.[38] Both estimates exaggerate the negligible rate of advance that Russian troops have made south of Bakhmut over the last weeks. Russian milbloggers also claimed on October 31 that Wagner troops are engaged in fierce fighting northeast of Bakhmut around Yakovlivka and on Bakhmut’s northeastern outskirts.[39]
Russian sources claimed that Russian troops made incremental gains in the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area on October 30 and 31. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops conducted a series of unsuccessful ground attacks on the northern, northwestern, and southwestern outskirts of Donetsk City on both October 30 and 31.[40] Russian sources claimed that Russian troops captured the eastern part of Vodiane (8km southwest of Avdiivka), broke Ukrainian defensive lines in Opytne (5km southwest of Avdiivka), and fought for control of Pervomaiske (12km southwest of Avdiivka) on October 30.[41] A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian troops completed the capture of Vodiane on October 31 and noted that this claimed advance will allow Russian forces to push northeast on Avdiivka.[42] Russian sources additionally claimed that Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) units and elements of the 150th Motorized Rifle Division of the 8th Combined Arms Army launched an offensive on Marinka (on the southwestern outskirt of Donetsk City) and made marginal advances within Marinka on October 31.[43] ISW has not yet observed independent confirmation of these Russian claims.
Russian sources claimed that Russian troops launched an offensive southwest of Donetsk City on October 30 and made marginal gains in this area on October 30 and 31. The Russian MoD claimed that Russian forces reached the southern outskirts of Pavlivka (about 50km southwest of Donetsk City) on October 30.[44] Various Russian sources amplified the MoD claim and added that DNR forces took control of most of Pavlivka, with one Russian milblogger claiming that DNR troops had cleared 60 percent of the settlement by October 31.[45] A Russian milblogger reported that elements of the Russian Pacific Fleet entrenched themselves south of Novomykhailivka (25km northeast of Pavlivka) and that elements of the 29th Combined Arms Army, 39th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 68th Army Corps, and DNR are continuing offensive operations towards Vuhledar.[46] ISW has not observed independent confirmation of these Russian claims. Russian sources also noted that as of October 31, Russian forces have not pushed Ukrainian troops across the Kashlyhach River near Vuhledar.[47] The commander of the DNR ”Vostok” Battalion, Alexander Khodakovsky, noted on October 31 that the Russian offensive in this area is premature and that the Pavlivka-Vuhledar area will be difficult to hold.[48] Russian forces likely initiated this counter-offensive in an attempt to encircle Ukrainian forces near the 2014 frontline in the Vuhledar area, but this offensive endeavor is unlikely to aid Russian troops in taking significant ground beyond the lines that have existed for the last eight years.



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued routine air, missile, and artillery strikes west of Hulyaipole and in Mykolaiv and Dnipropetrovsk oblasts on October 30 and 31.[49] Russian forces launched Kh-95 cruise missiles at Ochakiv on October 30 and hit areas in Bereznehuvate with S-300 anti-aircraft missile systems on October 31.[50] Russian forces additionally shelled Marhanets in the Nikopol Raion of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast with MLRS and tube artillery on October 30 and 31 and damaged critical infrastructure in Kryvyi Rih and Zaporizhzhia City during a series of large-scale missile strikes across Ukraine on October 31.[51] Various sources reported that a Russian rocket landed in Naslavcea, Moldova, after Ukrainian forces shot it down.[52] A Russian milblogger also notably interviewed a group of Cossacks of the Don Brigade operating on the Kinburn Spit on October 31, suggesting that Russian forces still maintain a presence on this narrow strip of land, likely to protect against Ukrainian amphibious landings.[53] It is not clear what the Don Cossacks might be protecting on the Kinburn Spit, however. Multiple Russian milbloggers claimed that Russian forces destroyed a Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance group that attempted to conduct a water landing across the Kakhovka reservoir in Enerhodar on October 30.[54] Russian sources made similar claims around September 1.[55] ISW is unable to verify either claim.
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) is attempting to deceive the Russian population into believing that autumn conscripts will not be sent to fight in Ukraine, likely to prevent draft dodging. The MoD amplified a briefing by the head of the 4th Department of Main Organizational and Mobilization of the Russian Armed Forces General Staff, Rear Admiral Vladimir Tsimlyansky, in which Tsimlyansky claimed that the regular autumn conscription campaign, which will begin on November 1, has “nothing to do with the conduct of the special military operation in Ukraine.” Tsimlyansky reassured recruits that uniforms, equipment, and food have already been provided at training grounds and that conscripts will receive five months of training and then will receive positions appropriate to their education and skill. That reassurance is an implicit admission of the Russian state’s failures to properly equip, house, or even feed mobilized personnel in recent months. Tsimlyansky also claimed repeatedly that conscripts will not be deployed to Ukraine. However, Russia’s illegal and unrecognized September annexation of occupied Ukrainian territory means that all of the fighting is taking place in areas that the Kremlin claims as Russian territory. Conscripts will almost certainly be deployed to Ukraine after their training is complete around March or April 2023, and could be deployed sooner in response to changes on the battlefield.
The MoD also announced the end of partial mobilization on October 31, executing Russian President Vladimir Putin’s order to end mobilization by the end of October.[56] The MoD will likely continue to order surreptitious mobilization under the guise of “volunteer battalions” where it thinks it can get away with it but needed to end the partial mobilization process to free up space and trainers for the new November 1 conscription class. The MoD announcement oddly ordered all Russian military districts to immediately return their facilities to their pre-partial mobilization functions — an odd order because many mobilized personnel should not yet be in Ukraine according to announced Russian training plans for them and should still require training facilities. The rest of the mobilized Russian servicemembers will likely arrive in Ukraine in the coming weeks, however, and it could take that long for conscripted personnel to be selected and sent to their training grounds.
Local Russian governments remain responsible for even basic provisions to mobilized personnel, demonstrating the inefficiency of crowdfunding efforts and uncoordinated supply lines to support a modern military. A local Republic of Tatarstan media outlet reported on October 30 that residents of Naberezhnye Chelny sent 6 trucks containing 100 tons of “humanitarian aid” including food, equipment, and “essential items” to mobilized personnel from Tatarstan serving in the Northern Military District.[57] Framing basic troop provisions crowdsourced from local governments and residents as “humanitarian aid” belies the shockingly poor conditions in which forcibly mobilized personnel are serving. The head of the Russian Crimean Occupation Administration, Sergey Aksyonov, claimed on October 31 that his government was continuing to purchase basic winter gear, including thermal underwear, sleeping bags, and protective helmets for mobilized Crimean personnel through “extrabudgetary sources.”[58] And anti-mobilization channels reported on October 30 that state officials in Khabarovsk Krai ordered public employees to “donate” one day’s worth of their salary to support mobilized personnel from the territory.[59]
Some Russian citizens continue to resist the Kremlin’s mobilization practices. Russian forces detained a 19-year-old resident of Almetievsk, Republic of Tatarstan on October 29 on terrorism charges after he tried to set fire to a military registration and enlistment office, reportedly to protest partial mobilization.[60] An unidentified person threw a Molotov cocktail into a military registration and enlistment office in the village of Ust-Kan in the Altai Republic on October 30.[61]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Russian occupation authorities in Kherson Oblast announced that they would allow the use of Ukrainian hryvnias alongside Russian rubles, demonstrating the failure of their monthslong rubleization efforts in Kherson. The Russian deputy head of the Kherson Occupation Administration, Kirill Stremousov, announced on October 30 that the “dual currency system has returned to Kherson markets” and that vendors must accept rubles, but can use rubles and hryvnias.[62] Occupation officials mandated an exchange rate of 1.25 rubles to one hryvnia, a rate that heavily favors those who hold rubles. The actual global exchange rate at time of publication is about 1.68 rubles per hryvnia. Occupation officials had previously spoken of a “single economic complex” between Russia and occupied Ukrainian territories as early as April 6.[63] The Kherson Occupation Administration had announced on May 1 that Kherson Oblast would transition entirely to a ruble economy by September 1.[64] Poor economic conditions and a thriving hryvnia black market likely led occupation authorities to allow the use of the hryvnia, possibly to capture additional revenues from those transactions.
The failure of Russian occupation administrators to impose the ruble demonstrates that their efforts to degrade Ukrainian governance capabilities and Ukrainian identity in occupied areas are likely floundering. Ukrainian national identity and patriotism in Russian-occupied areas has remained, although Ukraine will face difficulties in rebuilding the institutions (and local economies) that Russian occupiers have destroyed as Ukrainian forces liberate additional territory.
Russian officials continue to create poor conditions in occupied parts of Kherson Oblast, likely to drive local inhabitants to evacuate. The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported on October 30 that Russian occupation authorities are creating “unlivable” conditions in Kherson Oblast by shutting off water, electricity, and internet access.[65] The Ukrainian General Staff reported on October 30 that occupation authorities in Nova Kakhovka shut down the internet and broadcast orders via loudspeaker calling on civilians to evacuate within 48 hours of October 29.[66] Nova Kakhovka occupation authorities also reportedly ordered businessowners to sell all food and other perishables and close their businesses by November 1.[67]
*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update.*
[1] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02rznceYc3QUWkDR7BrB...
[2] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02rznceYc3QUWkDR7BrB...
[3] https://****/Denys_Smyhal/3849
[4] https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/10/31/world/russia-ukraine-war-news/mu...
[5] https://****/SALDO_VGA/193
[6] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-updates
[7] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0QRwbFrfnnoauNkKTpGK...
[8]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=878272896522127




[9] https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/651; https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love...
[10] https://****/Prigozhin_hat/1921; https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/statu...
[11] https://****/Prigozhin_hat/1927
[12] https://****/Prigozhin_hat/1922
[13] https://****/Prigozhin_hat/1935; https://www.fontanka dot ru/2022/10/30/71778188/; https://****/milinfolive/92661; https://****/m0sc0wcalling/13744
[14] https://carnegieendowment.org/2020/06/02/implausible-deniability-russia-...
[15]https://****/mod_russia/21303; https://****/rybar/40735
[16] https://****/mod_russia/21334
[17] https://****/rybar/40767
[18] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02HTs6HEXi4zhZRLSsPE...
[19] https://****/rybar/40735; https://****/mod_russia/21303; https://****/...
[20] https://twitter.com/fdov21/status/1586658252359614464 ; https://twitte...
[21] https://****/rybar/40767; https://****/rybar/40751; https://****/rybar...
[22] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02HTs6HEXi4zhZRLSsPE...
[23] https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1587083378456727552?s=20&t=rnNJl... https://****/wargonzo/8979
[24] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02HTs6HEXi4zhZRLSsPE...
[25] https://****/rybar/40767
[26] https://www.facebook.com/okPivden/videos/860468468637712/; https://www.... https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=878272896522127; 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=878272896522127




; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid034mZvWPZujSF3uqqQ74...;




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1282576599247373




;




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1080489195952108




[27] https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/651;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586632129311637504[28] https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/665; https://****/milinfolive/92694
[29] https://****/kommunist/12434; https://****/rusich_army/6075’; https://****/rybar/40751
[30] https://****/mod_russia/21334
[31] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02HTs6HEXi4zhZRLSsPE... ; https://****/rybar/40753
[32]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586679798801125377[33] https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=878272896522127
[34] https://www.facebook.com/okPivden/videos/860468468637712/
[35] https://****/mod_russia/21304
[36] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid034mZvWPZujSF3uqqQ74...
[37] https://riafan dot ru/23724497-_mi_nastupaem_boets_chvk_vagner_o_napryazhennoi_situatsii_pod_bahmutom
[38] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[39] https://****/wargonzo/8969
[40] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid034mZvWPZujSF3uqqQ74...
[41] https://****/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/19389; https://****/RtrDonetsk/11396;...
[42] https://****/rybar/40751
[43] https://****/rybar/40772; https://****/vladlentatarsky/17167
[44] https://****/mod_russia/21303
[45] https://****/rybar/40734; https://****/kommunist/12434; https://****/r...
[46] https://****/rybar/40734; https://****/rybar/40763
[47] https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1586996446741598209?s=20&t=rnNJl...
[48] https://****/aleksandr_skif/2465 ; https://****/south0wind/2853
[49] https://****/zoda_gov_ua/14319
[50] https://www.facebook.com/okPivden/videos/1282576599247373/; https://t.m...
[51] https://****/dnipropetrovskaODA/2275 ; https://****/spravdi/20073 ; https://****/rybar/40753; https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=878272896522127; ; https://****/vilkul/2190; https://****/zoda_gov_ua/14303;
[52] https://twitter.com/MarQs__/status/1587013097335709696?s=20&t=rnNJl6KisM...
[53] https://****/sashakots/36905
[54] https://****/epoddubny/13436 ; https://****/readovkanews/45786; https://****/mod_russia/21304; https://****/kommunist/12433; https://****/rusich_army/6075; https://****/kommunist/12434; https://****/sashakots/36902
[55] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fighting-erupts-ukrainian-troops-de... https://finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-defence-ministry-says-ukrainian-0...
[56] https://****/bazabazon/14207; https://****/readovkanews/45864 ; https...
[57] https://****/tafffffffffdiaofficial/55421 ; https://notes.citeam.org/m...
[58] https://****/Aksenov82/1649
[59] https://****/mobilizationnews/2850
[60] https://m.business-gazeta dot ru/news/569514
[61] https://****/astrapress/14915; https://notes.citeam.org/mobilization-oc...
[62] https://****/Stremousov_Kirill/659
[63] https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Ukraine%20Invasion%...
[64] https://understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Ukraine%20Invasion%20Up...
[65] https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=860468468637712
[66] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0QRwbFrfnnoauNkKTpGK...
[67] https://****/spravdi/20073
Tags​Ukraine Project
File Attachments: 



DraftUkraineCoTOctober31,2022.png



Kharkiv Battle Map October 31,2022.png



Donetsk Battle Map October 31,2022.png



Kherson-Mykolaiv Battle Map October 31,2022.png

INTERACTIVE MAP AND ASSESSMENT: VERIFIED UKRAINIAN PARTISAN ATTACKS AGAINST RUSSIAN OCCUPATION FORCES​Nov 1, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

Date: November 1, 2022
George Barros and Noel Mikkelsen​Click here to see ISW’s interactive map of verified Ukrainian Partisan Attacks. ISW will update this map as we confirm more attacks.


​*Key Takeaway:* Effective Ukrainian partisan attacks are forcing the Kremlin to divert resources away from frontline operations to help secure rear areas, degrading Russia’s ability to defend against ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensives, let alone conduct their own offensive operations. Poor Russian operational security has enabled Ukrainian partisan attacks. Russia’s increasing manpower shortages are likely degrading Russian forces’ ability to effectively secure Russian rear areas against partisan attacks and simultaneously defend against Ukrainian counteroffensives. The Kremlin still has not effectively countered Ukraine’s organized partisan movement and is unlikely to have the capabilities to do so. 
_Note on methodology: This curated list of confirmed Ukrainian partisan attacks contains only events that ISW can verify with high confidence using visual evidence, remotely sensed data, or Russian and Ukrainian source corroboration. This list only includes events that official Ukrainian government entities have claimed or discussed. ISW has observed several reported partisan attacks that have not met this high-confidence threshold. This dataset is likely a small subset of all actual Ukrainian partisan attacks. This list does not include Ukrainian partisan reconnaissance or fire adjustment tasks. This list does not jeopardize Ukrainian operational security as Russian and Ukrainian government sources have discussed them publicly._
*Russian occupation forces have so far failed to neutralize Ukraine’s organized partisan movement as of November 2022 and are unlikely to possess the capability to do so. *Ukrainian partisans began targeting pro-Russian Ukrainian collaborators and Russian personnel less than one week after Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24.[1] Ukrainian partisans have conducted dozens of confirmed attacks across occupied Ukraine and have assassinated at least 11 Russian occupation officials and prominent collaborators as of November 1.
*Poor Russian operational security has enabled Ukrainian partisan attacks. *Russian forces have not effectively concealed the identities of pro-Russian collaborators and have failed to provide basic security to Russian occupation officials at their homes and places of work. Russian forces have failed to protect vulnerable sections of critical Russian ground lines of communication, such as rail line junctures and bridges, particularly in rural areas.[2] Ukrainian partisans freely collect targeting information on Russian military and occupation authority targets and pass this information to other partisans and the conventional Ukrainian military.[3] 
*Russian sources have openly criticized the Kremlin’s failure to provide additional security against Ukrainian partisan attacks in occupied Ukraine. *Prominent Russian milblogger Alexander Kots suggested that Russian occupation authorities are not taking Ukrainian partisan attacks seriously—comparing Ukrainian partisans to insurgents of the Chechen wars of the 1990s.[4] Kots advocated for Russian forces to begin an “anti-terrorism campaign” in Ukraine alongside Russia’s existing “denazification” and “demilitarization” efforts on August 25.[5] Russian milblogger Rybar criticized Russian occupation forces’ failure to take the initiative in the information space, including against “information operations” about Ukrainian partisan attacks.[6] Russian state media largely ignores these attacks and sometimes falsely frames them as conventional Ukrainian military attacks to downplay the effects of partisan warfare in Russian-occupied territory.* 
Russia’s increasing manpower shortages are degrading Russian forces’ ability to effectively secure their rear areas against partisan attacks.* Russian forces occupy approximately 85,300 square kilometers of mainland Ukrainian territory, excluding Crimea, as of November 1. Russian manpower shortages are inhibiting efforts to secure this area.[7] Ukrainian intelligence reported on October 28 that the Russian military has concentrated 40,000 personnel—most of Russia’s remaining conventional forces—in Russian-occupied Kherson Oblast, where Russia occupies roughly 23,000 square kilometers.[8]
The Russian military’s prioritization of Kherson Oblast has likely degraded Russian security forces in Zaporizhia (a notable hotbed of partisan activity), Donetsk, and Luhansk oblasts.[9] Partisan attacks have persisted in Russian-occupied Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts even following Russia’s annexation of those regions on September 30, indicating Russian forces continued inability to secure occupied territory.
*Ukrainian partisan attacks have diverted Russian resources away from the front line to help secure rear areas, degrading Russian capabilities to defend against Ukrainian counteroffensives, let alone conduct their own offensive operations. *Russian occupation authorities have tasked Rosgvardia and Federal Security Service (FSB) special forces elements—elements that have participated in combat operations in Ukraine—to conduct rear security in occupied Ukraine.[10] Moscow reportedly deployed unspecified special anti-partisan elements to Kherson City in response to partisan attacks targeting occupation officials at an unspecified time before June 12.[11] Russia deployed special Rosgvardia police units to provide security in occupied Starobilsk, Luhansk Oblast on August 22.[12] The Russian Interior Ministry sent personnel from St. Petersburg and Leningrad Oblast to conduct patrols in Starobilsk, Shchastya, and Stanystia Luhanska in Luhansk Oblast to “prevent and suppress provocations to destabilize the situation at an unknown time before August 23.”[13] Russian sources also confirmed that Russian Spetsnaz detachments, possibly from the FSB Special Purpose Center, conducted spot checks and other law enforcement tasks in formerly occupied Kharkiv Oblast on August 24.[14]
Elements of Rosgvardia, FSB special forces, and Russian private military companies—notably the Wagner Group—also serve as part of Russia’s frontline combat power in Ukraine.[15] These elements’ participation in rear area security precludes them from participating in combat operations. Ukrainian officials have explicitly stated that Ukrainian partisans aim to exhaust Russian forces and force Russia to redirect frontline forces toward occupied territory.[16]
*Confirmed Partisan Events Timeline*
March 2, 2022: Unknown actors found the dead body of Kreminna's pro-Russian mayor, Volodymyr Struk, in Zhytlivka, Luhansk Oblast, on March 2. Struk's body reportedly had a gunshot wound to the heart. Struk's wife reportedly said that men in military fatigues—likely Ukrainian partisans—kidnapped Struk on March 1.[17]​
Event type: Small arms fire targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
March 20, 2022: Ukrainian partisans assassinated Pavel Slobodchikov, the assistant to future Russian occupation administration Kherson head Volodymyr Saldo, with small arms fire in Kherson City, Kherson Oblast, on March 20.[18]

Event type: Small arms fire targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
April 20, 2022: Ukrainian partisans assassinated pro-Russian blogger Valery Kuleshov on Mykoly Kulisha Street in Kherson City, Kherson Oblast, on April 20 with small arms fire.[19] Kuleshov reportedly attempted to gain the position of chief of occupation police in Kherson.

Event type: Small arms fire targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
April 28, 2022: Ukrainian special forces in concert with Ukrainian partisans destroyed a railway bridge in Yakymivka, Zaporizhia Oblast, to disrupt supply transit from Crimea on April 28.[21]

Event type: Sabotage
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 35.1565428°E 46.6739580°N
May 22, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an improvised explosive device (IED) attack against the Russian collaborator mayor of Enerhodar, Andrii Shevchyk, in Enerhodar, Zaporizhia Oblast, on May 22.[22] Shevchyk survived the attack.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not Geolocated (The event reportedly occurred at 38 Kurchatova Street)
May 30, 2022: Ukrainian social media users observed damage to a car likely caused by a Ukrainian partisan IED attack against an unknown target in Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast, on May 30.[23]

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 46.841488, 35.374432
June 18, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an IED attack against the car of Yevhen Sobolev—the head of the 90th penal colony and a Russian collaborator—on Admiral Senyavin Avenue in Kherson on June 18.[24] The attack hospitalized but did not kill Sobolev.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 32.6270106°E 46.6675749°N
June 22, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an IED attack against the head of occupied Chornobaivka, Yuriy Turulev, in Chornobaivka, Kherson Oblast, on June 22 while Turulev was in his car. Turulev and his bodyguards survived with a concussion and shrapnel wounds.[25]

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
June 22, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an IED attack against Kherson Oblast Occupation Deputy Chairman for Agriculture Oleksey Kovalov in Hola Prystan, Kherson Oblast, on June 22 while Kovalov was in his car.[26] Russian media published an interview with a hospitalized Kovalov on June 30. Ukrainian partisans later killed Kovalov with small arms fire in his home in Hola Prystan on August 28.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
June 24, 2022: Ukrainian partisans assassinated Dmitro Savluchenko—the Russian-appointed Director of Youth Policy Management in occupied Kherson—with an IED in Kherson City, Kherson Oblast, on June 24 while Savluchenko was in a car.[27]

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
June 25, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an arson attack against the car of Iryna Makhneva—a Russiancollaborator and head of the Russian occupation Education Department in Kakhovka—in the Svetlove District of Kakhovka, Kherson Oblast, on June 25.[28] The attack did not injure Makhneva.

Event type: Arson
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
July 10, 2022: Ukrainian partisans assassinated Velykyi Burluk Occupation Head Yevgeny Yunakov in an unspecified location (likely in Velykyi Burluk, Kharkiv Oblast) on July 10 with an IED while Yunakov was in his car.[29] Ukrainian partisans either planted an IED under Tunakov’s car or turned Tunakov’s vehicle into a victim-operated car bomb.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
July 11, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an assassination attempt against the head of Russian-occupied Melitopol Raion, Andrei Siguta, with small arms fire in Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast, on July 11.[30] The attack did not injure Siguta.

Event type: Small arms targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
July 14, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an arson attack against the “Satellit” sunflower processing factory in Mariupol, Donetsk Oblast, on July 14.[31] NASA Fire Information for Resource Management System (FIRMS) data acquired on July 14 confirmed an active fire in the area. Partisans reportedly conducted another series of arson attacks at the Satellit factory on July 31 and August 6 but there is no FIRMS evidence of heat anomalies on those days, possibly due to cloud coverage.

Event type: Arson
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 47.132538912077976, 37.67194757801154
July 20, 2022: Vladimir Rogov, a member of Zaporizhia Oblast’s main council for the military-civil administration, reported that Ukrainian partisans attacked Russian-occupied Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant (NPP) with three warhead-equipped UAVs on July 20.[32] Ukraine’s Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) provided combat footage of the strikes and reported that the strikes killed three Russians and wounded 12 Russian occupation personnel.

Event type: Drone attack
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 34.5890583°E 47.5078611°N
July 24, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an IED sabotage attack against a railway split near Novobohdanivka, Zaporizhia Oblast, (30km north of Melitopol) on July 24.[33] Russian forces use the targeted railways to transport Russian military equipment and personnel between Vasylivka and Tokmak.

Event type: Sabotage
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 47°05’09.0”N 35°18’53.6”E
July 27, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an IED attack against a Russian occupation police car on Admiral Senyavin Avenue in Kherson City, Kherson Oblast, on July 27, killing one police officer and injuring another.[34]

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 46.659268, 32.598155
August 20, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an unsuccessful IED attack against the Russian occupation mayor of Mariupol, Konstantin Ivashchenko, at the entrance to the Mariupol City Zoo in Mariupol, Donetsk Oblast, on August 20.[35] The attack did not injure anyone.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
August 6, 2022: Ukrainian partisans assassinated the Nova Kakhovka deputy occupation administration head Vitaly Gura near his home in Nova Kakhovka, Kherson Oblast, with small arms fire on August 6.[36]

Event type: Small arms fire targeted violence
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 46.752407, 33.332366
August 9, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an IED attack near the headquarters of the United Russia Party in Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast, on the night of August 8-9.[37]

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
August 11, 2022: Unknown actors (likely Ukrainian partisans) knocked down power transmission towers along the highway between the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant (NPP) and Chaplynka, Kherson Oblast (near Nova Kamianka) on August 11.[38]

Event type: Sabotage
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 46.6226, 33.48270.
August 2, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted a radio-detonated IED attack against the deputy head of the department of internal policy in the Kherson occupation administration, Igor Telegin, while Telegin was in a car on Karbysheva Street in Kherson City, Kherson Oblast, on August 22.[39] The attack hospitalized but did not kill Telegin.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated (Event reportedly occurred on Karbysheva Street.)
August 24, 2022: Ukrainian partisans assassinated the occupation head of Mikhailovka Village, Ivan Sushko, with an IED while Sushko was in his car in Mikhailovka, Zaporizhia Oblast, on August 24.[40]​
Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
August 26, 2022: Ukrainian Partisans assassinated the deputy chief of traffic police of Berdyansk, Alexander Kolesnikov, with an IED in Berdyansk, Zaporizhia Oblast, on August 26.[41]

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
August 28, 2022: Ukrainian partisans assassinated the Kherson Oblast occupation deputy chairman for agriculture, Oleksey Kovalov, with small arms fire in his home in Hola Prystan, Kherson Oblast, on August 28.[42]​
Event type: Small arms fire targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
August 30, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an IED attack against the local headquarters of the “Together with Russia” political organization in Berdyansk, Zaporizhia Oblast, where occupation authorities were reportedly preparing for sham referenda on August 30.[43] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that the explosion did not cause any causalities.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 46.76989656247679, 36.79720552141415 
September 2, 2022: Ukrainian partisan Maksym Makhrinov blew himself up with a grenade during his arrest by the Russian National Guard in Tokmak, Zaporizhia Oblast, on September 2.[44] Russian sources claim that Makhrinov was a spotter supporting the Ukrainian military and that he killed one Russian National Guardsman and injured another after detonating a hand grenade during his arrest. Ukrainian sources claim that the second Russian National Guardsman later died in the hospital.

Event type: Other
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
September 6, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an IED attack against the Berdyansk City occupation commandant, Artem Bardin, using a car bomb in Berdyansk, Zaporizhia Oblast on September 6.[45] Ukrainian partisans reportedly engaged in a small arms firefight after the IED attack. Bardin was hospitalized and reportedly in serious condition as of September 6.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 46.7551704, 36.7879092
September 12, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an improvised explosive device IED attack against the Russian-appointed occupation rector of Kherson State University, Tetyana Tomilina, at her apartment in Kherson City on September 12.[46] Ukrainian reports claim that the attack killed a Chechen bodyguard and put Tomilina in critical condition in intensive care. Russian reports claim that the other victim besides Tomilina was a civilian.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
September 16, 2022: Ukrainian partisans assassinated the Deputy Head of housing and communal services, Oleg Boyko, and his wife, Lyudmilla Boyko, who led the city commission for the annexation referendum, near their garage in Berdyansk on September 16.[47]

Event type: Targeted violence (unknown means)
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
September 17, 2022: Unspecified actors (likely partisans) conducted an arson attack against the vehicles of Russian propagandist Dmitrii Kiselyov at his mansion on Aivazovskoho Street in Koktebel, Crimea on September 17.[48]

Event type: Arson
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
September 24, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted an IED attack against a pro-Russian billboard near the Eternal Flame monument in Berdyansk on September 24.[49]

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Not geolocated
September 29, 2022: Ukrainian partisans reportedly conducted an IED attack against director of the department of education Olena Shapurova’s car near the Industrial and Economic College in occupied Melitopol on September 29.[50] The attack did not wound Shapurova but did injure her husband and the driver of a passing car.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
October 25, 2022: Ukrainian partisans conducted a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device (VBIED) attack on Zaporizhia Oblast occupation head Yevgeny Balitsky’s media building in Melitopol on October 25, where a Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) branch was reportedly deployed.[51] The attack’s intended target is unclear. The attack reportedly injured five people, including pro-Russian propagandists working at the "Za-TV" media outlet stationed at the building.

Event type: IED-targeted violence
Geolocation status: Geolocated to 46.826743 35.354025
 
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[34] https://****/stranaua/54658; https://twitter.com/Cosmonaut19/status/1552555360065822725; https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/07/28/v-hersoni-ruh-oporu-likviduvav-policzayiv/; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94MMeruE5nQ&feature=emb_title&ab_channel... https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1552537430410108929; https://www.facebook.com/sergey.khlan/videos/1833089617039221; https://****/operativnoZSU/34525
[35] https://ria dot ru/20220820/pokushenie-1810997450.html; https://zona dot media/news/2022/08/20/ivashenko; https://www.rbc dot ru/politics/20/08/2022/6300ef0a9a794707a9283930; https://****/andriyshTime/2434
[36] https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/08/06/na-pivdni-odrazu-dva-gaulyajtera-perebuvayut-u-vazhkomu-stani/ ; https://ria dot ru/20220806/pokushenie-1807714966.html?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop; https://****/rian_ru/173599; https://real-vin dot com/na-hersonshhine-ubit-gauljajter; https://news.liga dot net/politics/news/v-novoy-kahovke-podstelili-vidnogo-kollaboranta-on-v-bolnitse-v-tyajelom-sostoyanii; https://ru.slovoidilo dot ua/2022/08/06/novost/bezopasnost/xersonshhine-ubili-vysokopostavlennogo-kollaboranta-vitaliya-guru; https://focus dot ua/voennye-novosti/524630-v-hersonskoy-oblasti-sovershili-pokushenie-na-kollaboranta-guru-chto-izvestno-video; tass dot com/world/1490371
[37] https://****/AFUStratCom/5072; https://****/ivan_fedorov_melitopol/383; https://finance.yahoo.com/news/explosion-hits-near-headquarters-united-1... https://****/riamelitopol/64472 Gelocated to 46.84730068151434, 35.375606331320064
[38] https://****/Bratchuk_Sergey/16955; https://www.facebook.com/sergey.khlan/posts/pfbid02A2mQnpHikwwtuRqJ5J6gS... https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1558873796072833025
[39] https://****/stranaua/59434; https://****/milinfolive/89286; https://****/rybar/37606; https://ria dot ru/20220823/pokushenie-1811527418.html?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop; https://****/readovkanews/40640 ; https://****/readovkanews/40644; https://iz dot ru/1383931/2022-08-23/zamglavy-vga-stremousov-soobshchil-o-pokushenii-na-khersonskogo-chinovnika-telegina; https://apostrophe dot ua/ua/news/society/2022-08-24/vzryivyi-na-hersonschine-vyizvali-paniku-u-okkupantov-uje-zarabotali-podvalyi-dlya-svoih/277566
[40] https://www.pravda.com dot ua/rus/news/2022/08/24/7364567/; https://****/voenkorKotenok/39571; https://iz dot ru/1384453/2022-08-24/opublikovany-kadry-podryva-avtomobilia-s-glavoi-vga-mikhailovki; https://24tv dot ua/ru/ivana-sushko-vzorvali-fedorov-rasskazal-gotovjatsja-partizany_n2143337
[41] https://ria dot ru/20220826/vzryv-1812346459.html; https://****/voenkorKotenok/39638; https://****/stranaua/60086; https://****/stranaua/60070; ; https://****/readovkanews/40805; https://****/milinfolive/89470; https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/08/26/v-berdyansku-likvidovano-kolaboranta/
[42] https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/08/29/na-hersonshhyni-likviduvaly-zradnyka-kovalova/; https://www.pravda.com dot ua/news/2022/08/29/7365147/; https://www.interfax dot ru/world/858754; https://www.kommersant dot ru/doc/5535721
[43] https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/08/31/u-berdyansku-pidirvaly-okupaczijnyj-shtab-pidgotovky-do-referendumu/; https://www.rbc dot ua/rus/news/berdyanske-podorvali-shtab-kollaborantov-1661941057.html; https://news dot ru/europe/v-berdyanske-podtverdili-vzryv-v-zdanii-gumanitarnogo-shtaba/; https://www.vesti dot ru/article/2917515; https://md.tsargrad dot tv/news/v-berdjanske-u-shtaba-volonterov-my-vmeste-s-rossiej-proizoshel-vzryv_615666
[44] https://glavcom dot ua/country/incidents/na-zaporizhzhi-partizan-pidirvav-sebe-razom-z-dvoma-okupantami-872702.html ; https://****/riamelitopol/67365; https://www.rbc dot ua/ukr/styler/zaporozhskiy-partizan-podorval-sebya-vmeste-1662198532.html; https://****/bazabazon/13030; https://lenta dot ru/news/2022/09/02/korr/; https://lenta dot ru/news/2022/09/02/samopodryv/; https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1565770844500115457; https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/09/04/ukrayinskyj-partyzan-pidirvav-sebe-u-tokmaku-razom-iz-dvoma-okupantamy/
[45] https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/09/06/u-czentri-berdyanska-vybuhnulo-avto-kolaboranta/; https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1567130137308561408; https://ria dot ru/20220906/berdyansk-1814869563.html; https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/09/06/breaking-news-russian-commandant-h... https://twitter.com/Scilentor/status/1567132739622551553; https://twitter.com/rollowastaken/status/1567130567769989120 ; https://twitter.com/RedIntelPanda/status/1567156915251122177; https://sprotyv.mod.gov.ua/2022/09/06/u-czentri-berdyanska-vybuhnulo-avt... https://****/boris_rozhin/62605; https://****/vrogov/4680; https://****/zalpalyanytsya/1523; https://****/rian_ru/176838
[46] https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/09/13/u-hersoni-pidirvaly-kolaborantku/; https://glavred dot net/ukraine/v-hersone-partizany-vzorvali-kollaborantku-tatyanu-tomilinu-10408658.html; https://****/Bayraktar_News_UA/18832; https://www.kommersant dot ru/doc/5559412; https://****/hueviyherson/25825
[47] https://****/glava_brd/456; https://www.interfax dot ru/world/862523 ; https://sprotyv.mod.gov dot ua/2022/09/16/na-okupovanyh-terytoriyah-likvidovano-kolaborantiv/; https://****/stranaua/64277; https://****/rybar/38883
[48] https://****/Bratchuk_Sergey/18884; https://****/stranaua/64510; https://****/stranaua/64503; https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1571189666010873856?ref_src=twsrc%5... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&u...
[49] https://****/voenkorKotenok/40795; https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&u... https://russian dot rt.com/ussr/news/1053066-vzryv-v-berdyanske; https://ria dot ru/20220924/berdyansk-1819233261.html?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fdzen.ru%2Fnews%2Fsearch%3Ftext%3D; https://nv dot ua/ukraine/events/v-melitopole-i-berdyanske-razdalis-vzryvy-novosti-ukrainy-50272313.html
[50] https://****/vrogov/5268; https://****/zalpalyanytsya/1714 ; https://****/Bratchuk_Sergey/19555 ; https://****/spravdi/18062; https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/09/29/u-melitopoli-pidirvaly-avto-kolaborantky/; https://****/rian_ru/179800; https://****/ivan_fedorov_melitopol/621 ; https://****/ivan_fedorov_melitopol/620 ; https://****/ivan_fedorov_melitopol/618; https://****/rybar/39523; https://****/hueviyherson/26656 ; https://****/stranaua/66683
[51] https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1584807054258364416 ; https://****/hueviyherson/27909; https://****/readovkanews/45320; https://****/readovkanews/45279; https://****/itsdonetsk/36527; https://****/The3rdForceUA/11883; https://sprotyv.mod.gov(dot)ua/2022/10/25/v-czentri-melitopolya-prolunav-vybuh-poblyzu-biznes-czentru-golovnogo-gaulyajtera/; https://****/readovkanews/45288; https://twitter.com/Cosmonaut19/status/1584809831289876480; https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1584796593303482368;  https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1584818666066960386  https://****/itsdonetsk/36527; https://****/ZaTV_Media/3536; https://****/stranaua/71544; https://****/stranaua/71701; https://****/BalitskyEV/432; https://****/rybar/40570


Tags​Ukraine Project
File Attachments: 



Partisan Map Promo Image.PNG

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587189077215961093

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587552299291148288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587538576945864708

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587503508990955523

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587500619501375488

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## khansaheeb

khansaheeb said:


> Meanwhile in Kyiv:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Kyiv locals queue for water after Russian strikes
> 
> 
> Missile attacks on key facilities across Ukraine on Monday cause power cuts and water shortages.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Kyiv locals queue for water after Russian strikes​
> 
> Published
> 3 hours ago
> 
> Share
> Related Topics
> 
> Russia-Ukraine war
> 
> Media caption,
> Watch: Kyiv locals seen queuing for water
> By Hugo Bachega in Kyiv & James FitzGerald
> BBC News
> 
> *People in the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, had to queue for water after Russian missiles struck key facilities across the country on Monday.*
> An evening update from the city's mayor, Vitaliy Klitschko, said 40% of consumers in Kyiv remained without water and 270,000 homes had no power.
> Thirteen people were injured in the attacks nationwide, Ukraine said.
> Russia said the strikes were aimed at Ukraine's military control and energy systems and that all targets were hit.
> They were partly in response to an attack on a Russian warship over the weekend, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Monday.
> ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> In its evening update, the Ukrainian military said it had shot down 45 out of 55 missiles that were launched.
> 
> For security reasons, the outside world is rarely shown the destruction of Ukraine's critical infrastructure by Russian airstrikes.
> Ukrainian officials say this is to avoid sharing information that could be used in future attacks, including locations hit - or potentially missed.
> But the consequences of Monday's strikes were everywhere to be seen. Rolling power cuts have been introduced in several regions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians in general have been urged to reduce what is already an "extremely frugal" electricity consumption, in the words of President Volodymyr Zelensky.
> In Kyiv, street lights were turned off and trolleybuses replaced with conventional buses.
> Long queues were seen across the city as residents lined up to collect water from pumps after their own supplies were cut.
> 
> As many as 80% of Kyiv's consumers were said to have been left without running water in the immediate aftermath of the attacks.
> Later, Mr Zelensky said in his evening address that work was continuing to reconnect households with their services.
> Russia did not have the missiles to destroy "the Ukrainian will to live", he added in a defiant message.
> In addition to the capital, other areas affected by the strikes included Lviv, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Zaporizhzia.
> Overall, 18 facilities - most of them energy-generating - were hit by missiles and drones in 10 regions, Ukrainian officials said.
> One of the missiles intercepted by Ukraine's air defences landed in a border town in Moldova, causing damage to houses but no casualties, according to authorities in the neighbouring country.
> 
> Moldova later said a Russian embassy employee in Chisinau had been told to leave its territory, without specifying who the individual was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monday's strikes came after Russia blamed Ukraine for a drone attack on its Black Sea Fleet in the annexed Crimean peninsula over the weekend - a matter on which Kyiv has not commented.
> Answering reporters' questions on Monday evening, President Putin confirmed that the strikes were partly intended as a retaliation.
> He also said Russia had suspended, but not ended, its participation in a UN-brokered deal which allows safe passage to ships carrying grain from Ukrainian ports, although Ukraine said earlier on Monday that ships were continuing to depart, despite Russia's withdrawal from the deal.
> The fresh wave of attacks was the latest example of what has become Russia's strategy in Ukraine: the targeting of the important infrastructure before winter, when temperatures can drop to -20C.
> Ukraine says this is Russia's response to its military defeats, as the Ukrainian army takes back territory in a successful counter-offensive.
> Ukrainian defence minister Oleksii Reznikov has linked the Russian campaign to Gen Sergei Surovikin, who was appointed by President Putin as his new commander in Ukraine earlier this month.
> 
> Who is Putin's hard-line new commander in Ukraine?
> In a rare news conference last week, the minister said Russian forces had "changed their tactics" after the arrival of Gen Surovikin - whose nickname is Gen Armageddon - and "started openly fighting with the civilian population, not with the armed forces of Ukraine".
> The goal, he said, was to inflict "chaos and panic" in the population, "when it's very cold and dark".
> President Zelensky has described this tactic as "terrorism". Many Ukrainians say they are not afraid, though many are angry that civilians have again become the target.
> Western leaders, including European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, have recently pointed out that deliberate strikes on key civilian infrastructure would constitute war crimes under treaties that define the "rules" of war, known as the Geneva Conventions. Moscow, however, denies culpability for any war crimes.
> "Instead of fighting on the battlefield, Russia fights civilians," Dmytro Kuleba, the Ukrainian foreign minister, said on Monday morning - echoing a view shared by many of his compatriots.
> Ukraine says it needs more air defence capabilities to defend its cities. Germany has already sent equipment, while the UK and the US have announced they will do so.
> More on this story​
> Russia halts grain deal after 'massive attack'
> 
> 2 days ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Massive' drone attack on Black Sea Fleet - Russia
> 
> 2 days ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside US military cyber team’s defence of Ukraine
> 
> 2 days ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related Topics​


NATO has now a good excuse to send Uniformed Engineers in to help repair the damaged utilities to alleviate the suffering of the Ukrainians.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587436493944987648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587430301780873216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587366496472367105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586695343479070723

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## khansaheeb

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587189077215961093


Arithmetic doesn't add up:-"The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian air defenses shot down 44 out of over 50 Russian missiles.[2] Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal reported that the strikes damaged 18 mostly energy-related targets across 10 Ukrainian regions.[3]'

So 6 Russian missiles destroyed 18 Ukrainian targets?


----------



## ziaulislam

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Stopping ”innocent passage” is a blockade and an act of war.
> 
> 
> The EU has not recognized the annexation of the Golan Heights.
> I am simply stating the Israeli position.
> 
> So You support an illegal war because of ?
> 
> Well it appears that you are taking the tribal route.
> 
> - We hate the West Tribe.
> - Russia attack Ukraine
> - The West tribe support the sovereign right of Ukraine Tribe
> - Therefore we hate the Ukraine tribe.
> 
> * Way to go…


Lol. You are supporting your position
Even Israel doesn't claim it its own territory

Africans and Asians hate colonization
We support UN charter and right of self determination 

Fact on this war is ukriane violated all 15 points of the Minsk agreement. Any natioanlist Russian will go to war on this.

It's right of Russian speakers to determine where they want to stay with ukriane, as a separate country or with Russia under UN peacekeeper a elections should be held 

It's pretty much what intelligent people like musk said











Anyway seems all the advances are stopped(surprisingly I thought ukriane will pass the river)

Winter will bring air power more relevant

Midterms will mean people won't be happy to swallow 80b Bonanza ukriane is getting..

Will see what happens

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Beyond parody...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587412820181893123


Putin is a comical clown. He asks Ukraine for safety of Russia warships. He asks the US for security guarantee. But for him it’s very ok to send in Russia army, invading other countries, doing terror, destruction, killing, deportation, raping.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah right. Like that's going to stop production of 155 shells and GLMRS missiles. Besides other heavy equipment.
> 
> @jhungary
> 
> Just saw on twitter that the force civilian evacuation in Kherson City may be related to housing or quartering Russian troops during the winter since the Russian military can't provide enough winter equipment. What's your thought on that? Easier to kill dozens or even hundreds of Russian troops bunking together.


I think I said that a few days ago there are no supplies for both troop and city now that even the Crimean bridge is damaged. 

There aren't any winter equipment for the Russian other than the usual unit, as I said, that's what the Ukrainian trying to do, it's Early November now, Can Russian garrison hang on for 3 months with 3 damaged bridges? That's the 64000 dollar question.

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## Viet

ziaulislam said:


> Lol. You are supporting your position
> Even Israel doesn't claim it its own territory
> 
> Africans and Asians hate colonization
> We support UN charter and right of self determination
> 
> Fact on this war is ukriane violated all 15 points of the Minsk agreement. Any natioanlist Russian will go to war on this.
> 
> It's right of Russian speakers to determine where they want to stay with ukriane, as a separate country or with Russia under UN peacekeeper a elections should be held
> 
> It's pretty much what intelligent people like musk said
> View attachment 891748
> View attachment 891749
> View attachment 891750
> 
> 
> Anyway seems all the advances are stopped(surprisingly I thought ukriane will pass the river)
> 
> Winter will bring air power more relevant
> 
> Midterms will mean people won't be happy to swallow 80b Bonanza ukriane is getting..
> 
> Will see what happens


This map is misleading.
If I am not mistaken only Belarus, North Korea, Cuba and Nicaragua voted yes other abstained.
The yes sayers are fanatic warmongers. The abstaining want either cheap oil and gas or fear Russia hooligans coming to their home countries. Many poor Africa and Asian countries are so desperate for foods. They hope Putin sends them some foods although it’s Putin that causes them food shortage. Taking about human Iq.

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## A.P. Richelieu

ziaulislam said:


> Lol. You are supporting your position
> Even Israel doesn't claim it its own territory
> 
> Africans and Asians hate colonization
> We support UN charter and right of self determination
> 
> Fact on this war is ukriane violated all 15 points of the Minsk agreement. Any natioanlist Russian will go to war on this.
> 
> It's right of Russian speakers to determine where they want to stay with ukriane, as a separate country or with Russia under UN peacekeeper a elections should be held
> 
> It's pretty much what intelligent people like musk said
> View attachment 891748
> View attachment 891749
> View attachment 891750
> 
> 
> Anyway seems all the advances are stopped(surprisingly I thought ukriane will pass the river)
> 
> Winter will bring air power more relevant
> 
> Midterms will mean people won't be happy to swallow 80b Bonanza ukriane is getting..
> 
> Will see what happens


Israel claims that it was disputed territory which is now annexed.
Any annexed territory is by definition considered Israeli territory.

Russia violated the Minsk agreement by keeping their army in Ukraine.
They have no valid reason for war, which is acknowledged by a super majority in the UNGA (was it 135 vs 5?)

It is the right of the citizens of Ukraine to follow the constitution they themselves voted for.

Russia does not have the right to start, lead and support an insurgency in Ukraine.

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## khansaheeb

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/01/politics/iran-missiles-russia/index.html



Iran is preparing to send additional weapons including ballistic missiles to Russia to use in Ukraine, western officials say​


By Kylie Atwood, CNN
Updated 1:58 PM EDT, Tue November 1, 2022



WashingtonCNN — 
Iran is preparing to send approximately 1,000 additional weapons, including surface-to-surface short range ballistic missiles and more attack drones, to Russia to use in its war against Ukraine, officials from a western country that closely monitors Iran’s weapons program told CNN.
The shipment is being closely monitored because it would be the first instance of Iran sending advanced precision guided missiles to Russia, which could give the Kremlin a substantial boost on the battlefield.
The last shipment of weapons from Iran to Russia included about 450 drones, officials said, which the Russians have already used to deadly effect in Ukraine. Ukrainian officials said last week that they have shot down more than 300 Iranian drones.
This new expected shipment would mark a significant increase in Iranian support to Russia’s war effort. While the precise timing of when the shipment will arrive in Russia is unclear, officials believe the weapons will definitely be delivered before the end of the year.
Drones have played a significant role in the conflict since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in late February, but their use has increased since the summer, when the United States and Kyiv say Moscow acquired drones from Iran. In recent weeks these Iranian drones have been used to target critical energy infrastructure in Ukraine.




US State Department says there's 'abundant evidence' Russia is using Iranian drones in Ukraine
The Iranian drones are known as a “loitering munition” because they are capable of circling for some time in an area identified as a potential target and only striking once an enemy asset is identified.
They are small, portable and can be easily launched, but their main advantage is that they are hard to detect and can be fired from a distance.
The US has also alleged that Iran has sent military personnel to Crimea to assist Russian drone attacks on Ukrainian targets.
Sending further Iranian weaponry to Russia is a move that will likely cause relations with the US to further deteriorate. On Monday, the US envoy to Iran Rob Malley said the Biden administration is not going to “waste our time” on talks to revive the nuclear deal “if nothing’s going to happen.” Tehran’s support for Russia in the Ukraine war and its crackdown on nationwide protests prompted by the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini in September have prompted the US to impose further sanctions on Iran.
Earlier this month John Kirby, the communications coordinator at the National Security Council, said the presence of Iranian personnel was evidence of Tehran’s direct engagement in the conflict.
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“We can confirm that Russian military personnel that are based in Crimea have been piloting Iranian UAVs, using them to conduct strikes across Ukraine, including strikes against Kyiv,” Kirby said, referring to unmanned aerial vehicles.
Malley spoke out strongly against Iran supplying the drones on Monday.
“We know that those drones have been used to target civilians and civilian infrastructure. And we know that Iran, in the face of all of this evidence, keeps lying and denying that it’s happening,” Malley said.




Iran is slowly entrenching itself as a player in the Ukraine war
On Monday a senior US defense official said they didn’t have any information to provide on the suggestion Iran is preparing to send missiles to Russia for use in Ukraine.
On Tuesday a Pentagon spokesman said the US has “concerns” that Russia may “seek to acquire additional advanced munition capabilities from Iran,” Pentagon press secretary Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder told reporters during a briefing on Tuesday.
“We do have concerns that Russia may also seek to acquire additional advanced munition capabilities from Iran, for example surface-to-surface missiles, to use in Ukraine,” Ryder said.
Yuriy Ihnat, spokesperson for Ukraine’s Air Force Command, said on Tuesday that Ukraine currently has “no effective defense against these (surface-to-surface) missiles. It is theoretically possible to shoot them down, but it is very difficult to do it with the means we currently have.”
The Iranian mission to the United Nations did not respond to a request for comment about the new expected shipment. Iran has previously denied supplying Russia with weapons for use in Ukraine, saying it “has not and will not” do so.
The Washington Post was first to report Iran’s plans to send missiles and additional drones to Russia.
The US is “looking at everything that we can do, not just with sanctions” in order to disrupt the Iranian weaponry from going to Russia, Secretary of State Tony Blinken said last week. He said that the US is “trying to break up these networks.”
But it is unclear if the US will be able to prohibit further shipments from going ahead, even as concerns mount about Iranians sending even more advanced weaponry to Russia.
US officials have also said that they are aware of discussions about additional Iranian weaponry to Russia that has not yet been delivered.
Last month the US sanctioned an air transportation provider for its involvement in the shipment of the Iranian drones, also known as Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) to Russia. The US is also ready to “target producers and procurers” contributing to the UAV program, the Treasury Department’s Under Secretary of the Treasury for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence said.
The question of longevity and sustainability remains because it is unclear how long Iran can or would continue providing weaponry – including more advanced missiles – to Russia.
CNN’s Jennifer Hansler and Ellie Kaufman contributed reporting.









Biden lost his temper on a call with Zelenskyy when Ukraine's leader asked for more aid


Biden had barely finished telling Zelenskyy he’d just greenlighted another $1 billion in military assistance when the Ukrainian president started listing all the additional help he needed.




www.nbcnews.com





RUSSIA-UKRAINE CONFLICT
Biden lost temper with Zelenskyy in June phone call when Ukrainian leader asked for more aid​Biden had barely finished telling Zelenskyy he’d just greenlighted another $1 billion in military assistance when the Ukrainian president started listing all the additional help he needed.

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Oct. 31, 2022, 3:30 AM PDT
By Carol E. Lee, Courtney Kube and Dan De Luce
It’s become routine since Russia invaded Ukraine: President Joe Biden and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy speak by phone whenever the U.S. announces a new package of military assistance for Kyiv.
But a phone call between the two leaders in June played out differently from previous ones, according to four people familiar with the call. Biden had barely finished telling Zelenskyy he’d just greenlighted another $1 billion in U.S. military assistance for Ukraine when Zelenskyy started listing all the additional help he needed and wasn’t getting. Biden lost his temper, the people familiar with the call said. The American people were being quite generous, and his administration and the U.S. military were working hard to help Ukraine, he said, raising his voice, and Zelenskyy could show a little more gratitude.

Administration officials said Biden and Zelenskyy’s relationship has only improved since the June phone call, after which Zelenskyy made a statement praising the U.S. for its generous assistance. But the clash reflects Biden’s early awareness that both congressional and public support for sending billions of dollars to Ukraine could begin to fade. That moment has arrived just as the president prepares to ask Congress to greenlight even more money for Ukraine.



President Joe Biden speaks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy from the Oval Office of the White House on Dec. 9, 2021. Susan Walsh / AP file
Biden now faces resistance from some Republicans and Democrats that wasn’t present when Congress approved previous Ukraine funds. The White House has discussed asking Congress for billions of dollars during the lame-duck legislative session after the midterm elections.
The White House hasn’t specified an amount publicly. Lawmakers and Ukraine lobbyists hope for $40 billion to $60 billion, and some officials familiar with the discussions expect the number to be roughly $50 billion. 
A source familiar with the conversation said that Biden was direct with Zelenskyy about handling the issues in the appropriate military channels but that the exchange wasn’t heated or angry.
A spokesperson for the National Security Council declined to comment on the story. 
A spokesperson for Zelenskyy didn’t respond to a request for comment. 
Top U.S. officials warn there are no signs the war is ending any time soon. 



Ukrainian soldiers prepare to fire a BM-21 'Grad' multiple rocket launcher near Kharkiv, on Oct. 4, 2022.Yasuyoshi Chiba / AFP - Getty Images
Before the June 15 phone call, the president’s frustrations with Zelenskyy had been building for weeks, three people familiar with the call said. Biden and some of his top aides felt that the administration was doing as much as it could as quickly as it could but that Zelenskyy continued to focus publicly on only what wasn’t being done. 
From Zelenskyy’s perspective — as well as that of some Eastern European governments and U.S. lawmakers from both parties — there has been repeated frustration that the Biden White House moves too slowly on weapons requests, initially hesitating to approve certain capabilities Ukraine requested most urgently, only to relent weeks or months later under pressure, according to two sources familiar with the Ukraine government’s view, congressional aides and two European officials.





Putin takes aim at West over war in Ukraine, downplays nuclear fears​OCT. 28, 202204:58

After the pushback Zelenskyy got in their June phone call, his team decided to try to defuse tensions, concluding it wasn’t productive to have friction with the U.S. president, according to two sources familiar with the Ukraine government’s view, congressional aides and two European officials.
Zelenskyy responded publicly that day by thanking Biden for the promised assistance.
“I had an important conversation with U.S. President Biden today,” he said in videotaped remarks. “I am grateful for this support. It is especially important for our defense in Donbas.”
In his statement after the call, Biden said he had informed Zelenskyy of the $1 billion in aid and vowed the U.S. “will not waver in our commitment to the Ukrainian people as they fight for their freedom.”
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POLITICS NEWSSuspect in Paul Pelosi attack allegedly told police he was on 'suicide mission' with more targets​The effort to get Ukraine weapons and equipment has intensified in recent weeks as Ukraine tries to make significant gains before harsh winter temperatures set in. 

The Ukrainian military is focused on driving thousands of Russian troops away from Kherson, trying to encircle them and retake the southern city from Russian control. The battle for Kherson could be one of the most consequential battles in Ukraine since the invasion. If Ukraine is able to retake the area, it could be a major morale booster for Zelenskyy’s forces and a serious blow to Russian troop confidence. But if Russia holds on, it could maintain its grip on the south, including the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, through the winter months. “This could be a turning point,” a defense official said.
Concerns about fading support for Ukraine are also driving the current offensives, according to a defense official and a former official, as Ukraine tries to show momentum on the battlefield to encourage the flow of more weapons.
On Oct. 12, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin convened a meeting of the Ukraine Contact Group in Brussels, a periodic gathering of allies, to discuss how to get more weapons and equipment into Ukrainian military hands. While past meetings have yielded assistance from ammunition to missile launchers, this month’s meeting took on new urgency, according to three defense officials familiar with the discussions.





Zelenskyy: Russian purchase of Iranian weapons shows ‘military and political bankruptcy’​OCT. 18, 202200:57

“Everyone was stepping up,” said an official in the meeting. Countries were scouring their stockpiles and warehouses to find anything that could help the Ukrainian military, the official said. “There was an urgency to get them air defenses and anything we could before winter and so they can be successful in this current offensive.”
The meeting was so successful that Austin was giddy as he walked out, two defense officials said. 
Ukraine still needs more air defense systems to defend against Russian military aircraft, missiles and drones, and the U.S. continues to discuss providing longer-range missile systems like the ATACMS and even some advanced fighter aircraft in the future. 
The proportion of Americans who are extremely or very concerned about Ukraine’s losing the war has dropped by 17 percentage points since May, from 55% to 38%, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted last month. And the proportion of Americans who say they’re not too concerned or not at all concerned about Russia’s winning was up from 16% to 26%, according to the survey.
The potential change in political will in the U.S. for continuing to send aid to Ukraine could upend how both the White House and Zelenskyy have approached the issue so far.
Since Russia invaded Ukraine in February, the Biden administration has been criticized for moving too cautiously. Now the president faces potential pushback from some Republican lawmakers and progressive Democrats that he’s providing too much aid.
The shifting dynamics on Capitol Hill also could force Zelenskyy’s team to rethink how it engages with Washington, as it has often tried to leverage its support in Congress to get more out of the White House.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587513894809272321

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> I think I said that a few days ago there are no supplies for both troop and city now that even the Crimean bridge is damaged.
> 
> There aren't any winter equipment for the Russian other than the usual unit, as I said, that's what the Ukrainian trying to do, it's Early November now, Can Russian garrison hang on for 3 months with 3 damaged bridges? That's the 64000 dollar question.



Once the reservoir is taken by Ukrainian troops, and they are very close, Ukrainians will be able to stop supplying water to Crimea anyway. Flooding the region could also make life considerably harder for the Ukrainian Army. I want the Russians out of Ukraine, but tactically I can see it would make sense for Russia to blow the dam.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

If the reported weapons shipment from Iran to Russia is true, it looks like these weapons are defeating the Western air defense systems, and in turn having a huge impact in the battle-field.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587398562098413568
As for Iran, the war in Ukraine provides them a perfect opportunity to test how their drones and missile programs can evade Western air defense systems in Ukraine. It also helps Iran to see how much damage their drones and ballistic missiles can cause.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Once the reservoir is taken by Ukrainian troops, and they are very close, Ukrainians will be able to stop supplying water to Crimea anyway. Flooding the region could also make life considerably harder for the Ukrainian Army. I want the Russians out of Ukraine, but tactically I can see it would make sense for Russia to blow the dam.


The thing is, Russia themseleves need the dam too. If they blow the dam, you may as well give up Crimea because they will not have drinkable water to Crimea, and then the mass majority of land between Kherson and Crimea will be flooded, you cannot defend the flooded area.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587552299291148288

Hooray to Elon Musk!

I got back my Twitter






And could get in to drink a toast to Geroman

😘😘😘 🍻🍻🍻

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> The thing is, Russia themseleves need the dam too. If they blow the dam, you may as well give up Crimea because they will not have drinkable water to Crimea, and then the mass majority of land between Kherson and Crimea will be flooded, you cannot defend the flooded area.




flooding the area would cause problems for a few days at most, maybe even hours. Then the waters would fall and Ukraine's forces could cross the river easily. Russia is better off with the dam in place, and just blowing the bridges, leaving Ukrainian troops trapped on the far side. Ukraine's counterattack was always going to come to a halt at the river.unless they can cross river do they have means to do this


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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> I think I said that a few days ago there are no supplies for both troop and city now that even the Crimean bridge is damaged.
> 
> There aren't any winter equipment for the Russian other than the usual unit, as I said, that's what the Ukrainian trying to do, it's Early November now, Can Russian garrison hang on for 3 months with 3 damaged bridges? That's the 64000 dollar question.


Then real $64k question is how many Russians are going to be either dead or captured when UAF took Kherson. 

Putin for some reason still trying to hold on to Kherson when anybody with even HOI4 level of understanding know that is a stupid idea.

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## kingQamaR

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Then real $64k question is how many Russians are going to be either dead or captured when UAF took Kherson.
> 
> Putin for some reason still trying to hold on to Kherson when anybody with even HOI4 level of understanding know that is a stupid idea.



Not if, but when”. Kherson falls, it will put the Russian grab of the Crimea peninsula and their Russian black fleet under the ear shot of the deadly USA Himars systems ? Theirs even a possibility of a Ukrainian sniff of taking back its Crimea. A Stalingrad moment for the Russians state fight or die!


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587142873379545088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587751235842707456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587761006746501120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587719349820968960

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If the reported weapons shipment from Iran to Russia is true, it looks like these weapons are defeating the Western air defense systems, and in turn having a huge impact in the battle-field.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587398562098413568
> As fofr Iran, the war in Ukraine provides them a perfect opportunity to test how their drones and missile programs can evade Western air defense systems in Ukraine. It also helps Iran to see how much damage their drones and ballistic missiles can cause.


Iran sending ballistic missiles because the cheap suicide drones pose no longer a threat. Putin and Mullah are perfect pair. Love relationship. And ok It’s a continuation of the war. Nuke is the end of the road. All human lives will perish. Today there is a report which places are safe against nuclear holocaust. Iceland. Let’s see maybe I will buy a one way ticket.


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> flooding the area would cause problems for a few days at most, maybe even hours. Then the waters would fall and Ukraine's forces could cross the river easily. Russia is better off with the dam in place, and just blowing the bridges, leaving Ukrainian troops trapped on the far side. Ukraine's counterattack was always going to come to a halt at the river.unless they can cross river do they have means to do this


Water will damage any defensive structure, which mean once that area is flooded, you will either need to repair or reconstruct any defensive structure if you want to hold that line. It would be more or less suicidal if Russia flood the field, because it may stop Ukrainian advance for a few days, then when the flood water subsided. They will be left with an area with damaged defensive line. Not to mention it will stop water coming to Crimea. That's why I said no way no how they will do it. 

Ukraine outrange Russian artillery. Which mean if and when Kherson fall, the land behind the sandbar near the riverbank will not be defendable. The flat land will mean anyone trying to mount any defences will stick up like a sore thumb, if Kherson fall, there are no way Russia can dig in anywhere between Kherson and Crimea. River crossing for the Ukrainian is the least of Russian concern if that happened.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Then real $64k question is how many Russians are going to be either dead or captured when UAF took Kherson.
> 
> Putin for some reason still trying to hold on to Kherson when anybody with even HOI4 level of understanding know that is a stupid idea.


It's really pointless to hold Kherson IMO. But then if Kherson fall, it will threaten Crimea and all part of the Western Battlefield. 

That's why Russia want to talk now, and try to counter attack in the East, they know if Kherson fall, that's goes the entire Western Flank. Think of all the troop that freed up and the flank that left open, that will be a unwinnable war for Russia.

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## ziaulislam

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You high man?
> View attachment 891641


There were several resolution with different wording.
Please do some reading



Viet said:


> This map is misleading.
> If I am not mistaken only Belarus, North Korea, Cuba and Nicaragua voted yes other abstained.
> The yes sayers are fanatic warmongers. The abstaining want either cheap oil and gas or fear Russia hooligans coming to their home countries. Many poor Africa and Asian countries are so desperate for foods. They hope Putin sends them some foods although it’s Putin that causes them food shortage. Taking about human Iq.


Yet we don't see a global condemnation of Russia.. what does that say.

Everyone hates war but no one wants to condemn Russia.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Guess who just cucked out? 








Russia Resumes Ukraine Grain-Export Deal in Abrupt Reversal


Russia agreed to resume a deal allowing safe passage of Ukrainian crop exports, abruptly reversing course after Turkey and the United Nations pushed ahead with the shipments over Moscow’s objections. Wheat prices dropped on the news.




www.bloomberg.com







ziaulislam said:


> There were several resolution with different wording.
> Please do some reading
> 
> 
> Yet we don't see a global condemnation of Russia.. what does that say.
> 
> Everyone hates war but no one wants to condemn Russia.


There's literally 100 ish country condemning Russia. With limited absention. 

What more do you need?

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## Reashot Xigwin

kingQamaR said:


> Not if, but when”. Kherson falls, it will put the Russian grab of the Crimea peninsula and their Russian black fleet under the ear shot of the deadly USA Himars systems ? Theirs even a possibility of a Ukrainian sniff of taking back its Crimea. A Stalingrad moment for the Russians state fight or die!


Good I always want to see what a modern stalingrad looks & plays like.


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## kingQamaR

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Good I always want to see what a modern stalingrad looks & plays like.



It wouldn't have mattered if 10,000 Russians died in a day. They're expendable and replaceable. Statistics don't bother such regimes. What the three day Special Operation has evolved in to is staggering.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587766984527183872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587731487180431361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587719599403028480

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## AlKardai

Titanium100 said:


> Saudi Arabia could be forced to enter the war and declare war.. This thing could explod into WW3 very fast. There is also news of US forces on the ground in Ukraine now.
> 
> Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, UAE and Other gulf states including Sudan and Morocco could be forced to launch a blitzkrieg offensive across the Middle east of a scale that has not occured in the region for centuries due to some reports of provocations from Iran, terrorist attacks or sabotage. They are on alert to respond militarily with a blitzkrieg offensive. For them this will be enough is enough kind of operation. Turkey, Azerbaijan will join it from the North as they are allied to NATO. This is one of the frontlines in WW3. Then there is South Korea vs North Korea almost being on the edge now and that is a definite third frontline. Quite surprisingly nothing will happen in LOC or LAC nor in Taiwan..
> 
> There is also news of US forces entering Ukraine now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing one of most ruthless airforces in action aka KSA Airforce will be something to behold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would be awesome to be fairly honest if it happened but I doubt anything related terrorist attacks or all that is credible all tho I hope.. WW3 is healthy for the environment it will keep the population numbers in check and reset the world



There will be no ww3.
No one is stupid enough to put their troops on the ground in Ukraine.

Both sides will keep fighting until Ukraine finally falls.
This could take months, or more likely, years.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587787219393282053

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587759075785412608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587747885176741889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587747274289025025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587736476154056710

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## Reashot Xigwin

[SSG]Q266 said:


> There will be no ww3.
> No one is stupid enough to put their troops on the ground in Ukraine.
> 
> Both sides will keep fighting until Ukraine finally falls.
> This could take months, or more likely, years.


That's good it will end up like another Afghanistan for the Soviet I mean Russians.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587486267520024578

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587144424097808384
The false narrative of the elites who support NATO's war in Ukraine against Russia is astounding. Their rationale is one that doesn't even make sense.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587495241518616577
Why are they adding crap music to the video?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587748128043991042

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587820947775848448

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Stopping ”innocent passage” is a blockade and an act of war.


that don't include enemy states , and the ships could go another route , Egypt only closed its territorial water


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587833478070079490

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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> Thats not how it worked last 2 World Wars. You think what starts in Europe stays in Europe. Some countries in the other regions could exploit the distraction. Invade the countries they have their eyes on for awhile but couldn't.


then European countries ruled many countries and territories in Asia and Afrika , no longer there is such situation


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587735269473517568


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> that don't include enemy states , and the ships could go another route , Egypt only closed its territorial water


If you are not at war, then you are not an enemy state.
Closing territorial waters to innocent passage is an act of war.



Hack-Hook said:


> then European countries ruled many countries and territories in Asia and Afrika , no longer there is such situation


Iran is fighting wars or supporting wars in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Gaza and Ukraine, possibly Afghanistan. Not a lot have changed, just the actors.


----------



## AlKardai

Titanium100 said:


> Saudi Arabia could be forced to enter the war declaring massive war.. This thing could explod into WW3 very fast. There is also news of US forces on the ground in Ukraine now.
> 
> Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, UAE and Other gulf states including Sudan and Morocco could be forced to launch a blitzkrieg offensive across the Middle east of a scale that has not occured in the region for centuries due to some reports of provocations from Iran, terrorist attacks or sabotage. They are on alert to respond militarily with a blitzkrieg offensive. For them this will be enough is enough kind of operation. Turkey, Azerbaijan will join it from the North as they are allied to NATO. This is one of the frontlines in WW3. Then there is South Korea vs North Korea almost being on the edge now and that is a definite third frontline. Quite surprisingly nothing will happen in LOC or LAC nor in Taiwan..
> 
> There is also news of US forces entering Ukraine now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing one of the most ruthless airforce in action aka KSA Airforce will be something to behold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would be awesome to be fairly honest if it happened but I doubt anything related terrorist attacks or all that is credible all tho I hope.. WW3 is healthy for the environment it will keep the population numbers in check and reset the world



Dude are you a bot? You’re just copy and pasting your argument


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## Titanium100

[SSG]Q266 said:


> Dude are you a bot? You’re just copy and pasting your argument



My bad I accidently deleted the previous one


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## kingQamaR

Hack-Hook said:


> that don't include enemy states , and the ships could go another route , Egypt only closed its territorial water



YES!!!! 

The closure of the waters around the Gaza strip are sanctioned by the UN.

Don’t ask me the legal points, but I know for certain that the UN has sanctioned Israel’s closure of the international waters around Gaza.


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> If you are not at war, then you are not an enemy state.
> Closing territorial waters to innocent passage is an act of war.


they were at an armistice not peace


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## Hassan Al-Somal

"Rules Based Order" explained 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587853399017521155

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587853399017521155



Because Russia’s invasion is illegal, while Ukraine defending itself is completely in line with the UN laws.

~

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## Beny Karachun

kingQamaR said:


> It wouldn't have mattered if 10,000 Russians died in a day. They're expendable and replaceable. Statistics don't bother such regimes. What the three day Special Operation has evolved in to is staggering.


Lol



kingQamaR said:


> YES!!!!
> 
> The closure of the waters around the Gaza strip are sanctioned by the UN.
> 
> Don’t ask me the legal points, but I know for certain that the UN has sanctioned Israel’s closure of the international waters around Gaza.


Lol Gaza are terrorists



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> "Rules Based Order" explained 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587853399017521155


Because the US sends weapons to defend against an occupying, offensive force whereas Iran is just a shithole dictatorship trying to save its shithole dictatorship friend

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol
> 
> 
> Lol Gaza are terrorists
> 
> 
> Because the US sends weapons to defend against an occupying, offensive force whereas Iran is just a shithole dictatorship trying to save its shithole dictatorship friend


what about Ukraine shelling Donbass for 8 years . won't it give Donbass the same status as Kosovo

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## Reashot Xigwin

kingQamaR said:


> It wouldn't have mattered if 10,000 Russians died in a day. They're expendable and replaceable. Statistics don't bother such regimes. What the three day Special Operation has evolved in to is staggering.

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> what about Ukraine shelling Donbass for 8 years . won't it give Donbass the same status as Kosovo


Donbass and Lughansk were hijacked by militant separatists, attacked Ukranian soldiers. After the unprovoked attack of Russia in 2014.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> "Rules Based Order" explained 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587853399017521155


Because the Iranian used theirs to primarily target civilians... 

You never see Himars or TB2 used to bomb hospitals because of this reasons.



Beny Karachun said:


> Donbass and Lughansk were hijacked by militant separatists, attacked Ukranian soldiers. After the unprovoked attack of Russia in 2014.


There's no Donbass separatist they're all Russians invaders. Fair game if you ask me.

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> Donbass and Lughansk were hijacked by militant separatists, attacked Ukranian soldiers. After the unprovoked attack of Russia in 2014.


as i recall after hijacking Ukraine those region wanted independence and it was Ukraine army that attack them first .
interestingly i was not talking about clash between armed forces , i was talking about Ukraine shelling villages and civilians in that 8 years .



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Because the Iranian used theirs to primarily target civilians...
> 
> You never see Himars or TB2 used to bomb hospitals because of this reasons.
> 
> 
> There's no Donbass separatist they're all Russians invaders. Fair game if you ask me.


its not seller of the weapon problem .
have problem with that go complain to Russia and interestingly as I recall if you mean Mariupol maternity hospital it was not Iranian drone it was bomber aircraft



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Because the Iranian used theirs to primarily target civilians...
> 
> You never see Himars or TB2 used to bomb hospitals because of this reasons.
> 
> 
> There's no Donbass separatist they're all Russians invaders. Fair game if you ask me.


its not seller of the weapon problem .
have problem with that go complain to Russia and interestingly as I recall if you mean Mariupol maternity hospital it was not Iranian drone it was bomber aircraft


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## Reashot Xigwin

That there's even a debate about Russian invasion of Ukraine. Is proof that someone does not deserve to be allowed to join society and deserves to be isolated for the rest of their live.



Hack-Hook said:


> as i recall after hijacking Ukraine those region wanted independence and it was Ukraine army that attack them first .
> interestingly i was not talking about clash between armed forces , i was talking about Ukraine shelling villages and civilians in that 8 years .


Other way around genius. The "separatist" actually mistaken the town post office for the government building when they 1st launch their attack.

They are not separatists they are Russian invaders.



Hack-Hook said:


> as i recall after hijacking Ukraine those region wanted independence and it was Ukraine army that attack them first .
> interestingly i was not talking about clash between armed forces , i was talking about Ukraine shelling villages and civilians in that 8 years .
> 
> 
> its not seller of the weapon problem .
> have problem with that go complain to Russia and interestingly as I recall if you mean Mariupol maternity hospital it was not Iranian drone it was bomber aircraft
> 
> 
> its not seller of the weapon problem .
> have problem with that go complain to Russia and interestingly as I recall if you mean Mariupol maternity hospital it was not Iranian drone it was bomber aircraft


Iranian instructors are literally in ukraine right now coordinating attack on civilians. You actually believe Russians have the brain capacity to operate drones? Those guys can't even be trusted to wipe their own asses.









Iranian Killer Drone Instructors in Crimea, More Strikes Against Ukraine’s Power Grid - Kyiv Post - Ukraine's Global Voice


Tehran has deployed dozens of military instructors to the Kremlin-occupied Crimea peninsula and Kherson region to… - Oct. 18, 2022. By Stefan Korshak




www.kyivpost.com





One side bomb building with baby & the sick inside while the other targets military. Guess which one getting sanctioned.

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> as i recall after hijacking Ukraine those region wanted independence and it was Ukraine army that attack them first .
> interestingly i was not talking about clash between armed forces , i was talking about Ukraine shelling villages and civilians in that 8 years .


I'm sure many regions in Iran want independence given the riots, would you let them independence? No government respects their territory getting hijacked. 

Some China town in the US also might want independence, the US should give it? 

Russia militarized those cities.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The second best army in the world everyone.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587714068156129281

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Iranian instructors are literally in ukraine right now coordinating attack on civilians. You actually believe Russians have the brain capacity to operate drones? Those guys can't even be trusted to wipe their own asses.


proof , genius , bring proof , noy some nonsense from Kiev without evidence
let see what nonsense the article say
Ukrainian news agency UNIAN, *citing “underground” intelligence sources,* reported an *undisclosed number of trainers* stationed at a training center at the Russian Federation (RF)-operated Kirov airfield near Crimea’s Cape Tarkhankut.
*At least 20 more Iranian instructors* were working at an RF-occupied location in Ukraine’s Kherson region, *widely read independent Ukrainian journalist*, confirmed the accuracy of the UNIAN article, *citing sources in the state-sponsored Center for National Resistance*, a volunteer-staffed organization with close links to the Ukrainian military and intelligence communities.


Beny Karachun said:


> I'm sure many regions in Iran want independence given the riots, would you let them independence? No government respects their territory getting hijacked.
> 
> Some China town in the US also might want independence, the US should give it?
> 
> Russia militarized those cities.


then why EU complained about Serbia don't give Kosovo independence ?
and are the unrest about independence or it is about freedom


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

US military: No one gets left behind

Russian military: Everyone are expendable


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587429372465651712

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587877743336849410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587878050145832960

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> proof , genius , bring proof , noy some nonsense from Kiev without evidence
> let see what nonsense the article say
> Ukrainian news agency UNIAN, *citing “underground” intelligence sources,* reported an *undisclosed number of trainers* stationed at a training center at the Russian Federation (RF)-operated Kirov airfield near Crimea’s Cape Tarkhankut.
> 
> 
> then why EU complained about Serbia don't give Kosovo independence ?
> and are the unrest about independence or it is about freedom


It's pretty much been corroborated by US state department. And I'll take their words over yours.









The United States confirmed the presence of Iranian instructors in Crimea


The United States confirmed the presence of Iranian instructors in occupied Crimea. They help the Russians launch kamikaze drones




babel.ua





According to him, there were failures in the work of Iranian drones, and the drones did not meet the standards "the Russians expected." In this regard, Iran decided to transport some instructors and some technical support to help the Russian occupiers use drones with greater lethality.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

PakFactor said:


> This is perfect for China. Just let the West keep slugging it out in Europe.



The more they try to reach for China, the further China gets away.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587868480963072008


----------



## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> then why EU complained about Serbia don't give Kosovo independence ?
> and are the unrest about independence or it is about freedom


EU Are hypocrites, that's why


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Beny Karachun said:


> EU Are hypocrites, that's why



Also LOL at the comparison. Kosovo are already de facto independent with more than a dozen countries already recognizing it as such. It's just the Serbs refusing to accept & take the L.

Also they have the most banger song in existence. That fact alone deserves them independence.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> It's pretty much been corroborated by US state department. And I'll take their words over yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States confirmed the presence of Iranian instructors in Crimea
> 
> 
> The United States confirmed the presence of Iranian instructors in occupied Crimea. They help the Russians launch kamikaze drones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> babel.ua
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to him, there were failures in the work of Iranian drones, and the drones did not meet the standards "the Russians expected." In this regard, Iran decided to transport some instructors and some technical support to help the Russian occupiers use drones with greater lethality.


again claims without any proof , show us proof. the drone is given a coordinate and then is released , how an instructors can fix it if there is problem there , and how hard is feeding a coordination to the drone that they need 30+ instructor to learn it



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Also LOL at the comparison. Kosovo are already de facto independent with more than a dozen countries already recognizing it as such. It's just the Serbs refusing to accept & take the L.


Kosovo become defacto independent after NATO attacked and annexed it from Serbia not before it


----------



## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587877743336849410


I taught the system is Ukrainian , why all the writing on Monitor is in Arabic ?

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> again claims without any proof , show us proof. the drone is given a coordinate and then is released , how an instructors can fix it if there is problem there , and how hard is feeding a coordination to the drone that they need 30+ instructor to learn it
> 
> 
> Kosovo become defacto independent after NATO attacked and annexed it from Serbia not before it


You ignoring the UCK fight for independence of Kosovo. All the US does is help them achieve it. 

It's not an artificial states like LDR or DNR. Try again.








Hack-Hook said:


> I taught the system is Ukrainian , why all the writing on Monitor is in Arabic ?


They were originally export models for the middle eastern market.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You ignoring the UCK fight for independence of Kosovo. All the US does is help them achieve it.
> 
> It's not an artificial states like LDR or DNR. Try again.


you forget in donetsk and luhansk they were fighting for independence since 2014 , only thing that russia did help them achieve it its not artificial state like kosovo

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587811677449474048


Hack-Hook said:


> you forget in donetsk and luhansk they were fighting for independence since 2014 , only thing that russia did help them achieve it its not artificial state like kosovo


Cope & Seethe








International recognition of Kosovo - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Also give the Kurd & Azeri their land back pls

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## The SC




----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> they were at an armistice not peace


And the blockade was the main cause triggering the hot war.



Hack-Hook said:


> again claims without any proof , show us proof. the drone is given a coordinate and then is released , how an instructors can fix it if there is problem there , and how hard is feeding a coordination to the drone that they need 30+ instructor to learn it
> 
> 
> Kosovo become defacto independent after NATO attacked and annexed it from Serbia not before it


NATO is an organisation without territory.
It has not annexed a single km2.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587865666081677312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587873942714425345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587816585644822529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587915838585176068

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## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> then European countries ruled many countries and territories in Asia and Afrika , no longer there is such situation


Ok, so that means there won't be wars or conflicts in those regions?



jhungary said:


> I think I said that a few days ago there are no supplies for both troop and city now that even the Crimean bridge is damaged.
> 
> There aren't any winter equipment for the Russian other than the usual unit, as I said, that's what the Ukrainian trying to do, it's Early November now, Can Russian garrison hang on for 3 months with 3 damaged bridges? That's the 64000 dollar question.


I'm more interested if the Ukrainians should hit the Russian troops being quartered into the apartments and hotels in Kherson City more during the winter.


----------



## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> as i recall after hijacking Ukraine those region wanted independence and it was Ukraine army that attack them first .
> interestingly i was not talking about clash between armed forces , i was talking about Ukraine shelling villages and civilians in that 8 years .


Sorry but you felled for the Russian narrative about Ukrainians bombing the cities for 8 years. I guarantee that Donetsk City which is few km from the frontlines have not been destroyed after 8 years like you see Russians do against other cities like Mariupol in few weeks and months. 

Donetsk City. 














Is Donetsk safe in 2021?


Answer (1 of 2): More or less. Here is one of the published photos from concert of Grigory Leps held in September 2020 in Donetsk: That is for the inhabitants the city is safe enough to run and attend large concerts by visiting artists. On the other hand Ukrainian army artillery shelling makes ...




www.quora.com










Boris Ivanov
· 
Follow
Studied History & Literature at Russian State University for the Humanities1y
Related
Is it worth visiting Donetsk?





Not really. Well, if you want to join the Donbas War and kill some Ukrainians and/or Russians, Donetsk might be worth the travel. But otherwise, not really. Even before the war, it was mostly a place of business, not a major tourist destination. You can do some sightseeing there, but it is not ancient or interesting, and the natural sights there are not breathtaking. it was a good place to live and work in the context of Ukraine, but that was that.

Pictured - The city of Donetsk. And yes, it still mostly looks like that. The war goes on outside of the city, so the city itself is largely intact. Even when American propagandists (well, Ukrainian propagandists officially paid by the US) shoot their videos in Donetsk, the city looks quite nice in those videos.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> It's really pointless to hold Kherson IMO. But then if Kherson fall, it will threaten Crimea and all part of the Western Battlefield.
> 
> That's why Russia want to talk now, and try to counter attack in the East, they know if Kherson fall, that's goes the entire Western Flank. Think of all the troop that freed up and the flank that left open, that will be a unwinnable war for Russia.


Yep, if Kherson falls, its pretty much over. Only need to leave a token force to watch the west side of the river like two or 3 brigades. Even if the bridges were intact, it be suicide trying to cross them since the Ukrainians can easily blow them up or ambush with massive artillery strikes and anti tank weaponry waiting for the Russians if they attempt to go back. The majority of Ukrainian forces can be shifted to the east.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Ok, so that means there won't be wars or conflicts in those regions?
> 
> 
> I'm more interested if the Ukrainians should hit the Russian troops being quartered into the apartments and hotels in Kherson City more during the winter.


You knew my position, if it was up to me, I would rather level Kherson and rebuild it after the Ukrainian kick the Russian out. Instead of playing long game. This is a perfect bottle neck situation. They are stuck in Kherson, and they can't move them all out since there are no bridge. You can only feedback in piecemeal. 

But again, seems like AFU high command do not want that to happen. They choose to play the waiting game...



Oldman1 said:


> Yep, if Kherson falls, its pretty much over. Only need to leave a token force to watch the west side of the river like two or 3 brigades. Even if the bridges were intact, it be suicide trying to cross them since the Ukrainians can easily blow them up or ambush with massive artillery strikes and anti tank weaponry waiting for the Russians if they attempt to go back. The majority of Ukrainian forces can be shifted to the east.


The problem the Russia had is they didn't go all the way to Mykolaiv, that's a natural buffer point where instead of now which the Russia has around 200km front in Kherson, if the Russian took Mykolaiv, that would have been 2 crossing point between North and West instead of a continuous frontline. 

They really should have stopped the Eastern advance and reposition troop to the south because Kherson is the major anchoring point of the entire line, without Kherson, the entire Kherson Oblast will fall, and without Kherson Oblast, Russian troop in Zaporizhya Oblast will be out flanked, it will be the same situation with Kherson half a year or 9 months down the road, then Zaporizhya will fall, and whether or not Russia can retain control in Donetsk and Luhansk will then be a serious question.

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## S10

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The second best army in the world everyone.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587714068156129281


Probably payment was promised, but somebody embezzled it. Just another day in Russia.

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## Viet

S10 said:


> Probably payment was promised, but somebody embezzled it. Just another day in Russia.


Putin runs out of money. Just a matter of time he will ask China for loans. If not already happening.

this primitive war of attrition will continue for months or years and costs money.






Ukrainische Soldaten bei Bachmut: Tausende werden von ihren Angehörigen vermisst. (Quelle: Efrem Lukatsky/AP/dpa-bilder)

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## Viet




----------



## Viet

Surprise surprise

Belarus partisans joining Ukraine army

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587805371422629888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587805373695922176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587805375889575941
What are they (Russians) gonna do about it? Instead of complaining, they could hit a critical UK infrastructure and do the same denials as British officials are doing. But all that they do is complain.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588077882621820928

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Another statement clearly outlining what the "*Rules Based Orde*r" is all about 👇 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587889301919932416
More like I could send weapons to anyone without others having a say, but every other weapons sale requires my approval. Makes perfect sense.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Friends (America's Deep State) let friends (EU) commit suicide. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588096202603741184

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## Hassan Al-Somal

A sacrificial lamb for the Zionist-Freemasonry World Order (Gog and Magog World Order) 👇 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588100480084938752

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## Hassan Al-Somal

More like the colored revolution has failed in Iran, and those cheap Iranian drones are devastating the air defense, energy, rail, and power systems in Ukraine; therefore, they are going to threaten Iran. 👇 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588090018140229633

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> View attachment 892302
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587811677449474048
> 
> Cope & Seethe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Kosovo - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also give the Kurd & Azeri their land back pls


come and get it , iran superme leader is azeri and there never ever was a kurdish kingdom , they always been part of other kingdom .
and as i said artificial , when was the last independent kosovo ? its not important if master USA say something and Slave EU follow . it would have been most hilarious if NATO attack a country and take part of it away but don't recognize that part as a country



A.P. Richelieu said:


> And the blockade was the main cause triggering the hot war.


when its blockade that they close all the routes , Egypt only closed its territorial water and Israel ship could use other side of the island , only 10km longer route



A.P. Richelieu said:


> And the blockade was the main cause triggering the hot war.
> 
> 
> NATO is an organisation without territory.
> It has not annexed a single km2.


but participated in balkanizing other countries . overthrowing other countries government , supporting terrorist groups in other countries .



Oldman1 said:


> Ok, so that means there won't be wars or conflicts in those regions?


it means the war with be their own war , not European wars that had nothing to do with that countries .
it means those countries can solve their difference themselves , not European make artificial wars there and then come with their armies to solve those artificial wars



Oldman1 said:


> Sorry but you felled for the Russian narrative about Ukrainians bombing the cities for 8 years. I guarantee that Donetsk City which is few km from the frontlines have not been destroyed after 8 years like you see Russians do against other cities like Mariupol in few weeks and months.
> 
> Donetsk City.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Donetsk safe in 2021?
> 
> 
> Answer (1 of 2): More or less. Here is one of the published photos from concert of Grigory Leps held in September 2020 in Donetsk: That is for the inhabitants the city is safe enough to run and attend large concerts by visiting artists. On the other hand Ukrainian army artillery shelling makes ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.quora.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boris Ivanov
> ·
> Follow
> Studied History & Literature at Russian State University for the Humanities1y
> Related
> Is it worth visiting Donetsk?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. Well, if you want to join the Donbas War and kill some Ukrainians and/or Russians, Donetsk might be worth the travel. But otherwise, not really. Even before the war, it was mostly a place of business, not a major tourist destination. You can do some sightseeing there, but it is not ancient or interesting, and the natural sights there are not breathtaking. it was a good place to live and work in the context of Ukraine, but that was that.
> 
> Pictured - The city of Donetsk. And yes, it still mostly looks like that. The war goes on outside of the city, so the city itself is largely intact. Even when American propagandists (well, Ukrainian propagandists officially paid by the US) shoot their videos in Donetsk, the city looks quite nice in those videos.


the problem is i said villages in the area


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588086415904079875
And because they got slaughtered by the Ukrainian army and artillery.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588099741757341698


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588122003932086273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588102433548509184

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588153284346478592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588143551334039552


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588163963602223105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588167420329410561

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588180185517621249

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588181435919253504


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587904955767209984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587882554006601728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587892479860277252

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587892180680675329

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588170583204040704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588129362716819456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588128294028861441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588126959934050304

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588158704540844032
First, it was Iran that the US State Dept was threatening; now, DPRK is on the list. If they've already sanctioned these 2 countries to death, what more sanctions could they unleash on them?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588208562223841282


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587930447065088000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587933835827847171


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Another statement clearly outlining what the "*Rules Based Orde*r" is all about 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587889301919932416
> More like I could send weapons to anyone without others having a say, but every other weapons sale requires my approval. Makes perfect sense.


The US sending weapons to Ukraine means that they are not a neutral party in this war according to the Rule Based Order.
The other side is allowed to punish the US (and the West), but they are simply not prepared to take the consequences what Rules would allow to happen.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588180616113070081


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588100657394745344
Kherson will be liberated

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Haha Haha:
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## zartosht

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588158704540844032
> First, it was Iran that the US State Dept was threatening; now, DPRK is on the list. If they've already sanctioned these 2 countries to death, what more sanctions could they unleash on them?




This is for their dumb domestic audience to consume.

What else are they supposed to say honestly? Cheap Iranian drones are humiliating the best NATO has to offer (yet again). 

They have sanctioned even the street cats of tehran at this point and there is absolutely nothing they can do but eat it and throw tantrums?

At least now they can sell some kind of “response”.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588161811123159043

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588209375730188288

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hack-Hook

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588158704540844032
> First, it was Iran that the US State Dept was threatening; now, DPRK is on the list. If they've already sanctioned these 2 countries to death, what more sanctions could they unleash on them?


They sanctioned Russian cats, but only Iranian Chita, they can Sanction Persian cats.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

zartosht said:


> This is for their dumb domestic audience to consume.
> 
> What else are they supposed to say honestly? Cheap Iranian drones are humiliating the best NATO has to offer (yet again).
> 
> They have sanctioned even the street cats of tehran at this point and there is absolutely nothing they can do but eat it and throw tantrums?
> 
> At least now they can sell some kind of “response”.



Those Iranian drones are used to target only civilians... That ain't right. 

I'm fine with murdering & torturing (russian) soldiers to some extent (fog of war & all that) but civilians is not okay.

Russia will soon lose kherson

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588100412191784960

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588215095510941696

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Like Like:
1


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## zartosht

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Those Iranian drones are used to target only civilians... That ain't right.
> 
> I'm fine with murdering & torturing (russian) soldiers to some extent (fog of war & all that) but civilians is not okay.
> 
> Russia will soon lose kherson
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588100412191784960



Those drones not only humiliated western defence systems. But. they are methodically and systematically dismantling ukraines vital infastracture piece by piece.

The ukies are claiming to shoot 3 of them down per ak round. So i dont see what the butthurt is for?

As an added bonus they have exposed a MASSIVE western strategic weakness

*The west cant build anything cheaply anymore*

attrition warfare with cheap pgms will quickly exhaust western resources. This is the lesson Russia and many other countries will be taking from this war.

Thanks to Iran.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588262345683632128


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588100657394745344
> Kherson will be liberated


In ur American dreams


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588253163592613889


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588269601674170370

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

zartosht said:


> This is for their dumb domestic audience to consume.
> 
> What else are they supposed to say honestly? Cheap Iranian drones are humiliating the best NATO has to offer (yet again).
> 
> They have sanctioned even the street cats of tehran at this point and there is absolutely nothing they can do but eat it and throw tantrums?
> 
> At least now they can sell some kind of “response”.


Exactly what do you mean by “the best NATO has to offer”?


----------



## 1ndy

MeFishToo said:


> Exactly what do you mean by “the best NATO has to offer”?


He thinks that 1 Iris-T and few GEPARD can cover entire Ukraine. Let NASAMS and Iris-T come in full strength and see how these flying scooters will stop over night.

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## zartosht

MeFishToo said:


> Exactly what do you mean by “the best NATO has to offer”?










This shutdown half of saudi oil production in a single strike. When they were on high alert in the middle of a war with this inventory of american multibillion dollar garbage.



17 Lockheed Martin AN/FPS-117 long-range phased array, 3-dimensional air search radar.
6 Northrop-Grumman AN/TPS-43 portable 3-dimensional tactical air search radar.
Raytheon Improved HAWK air defense missile system.
Raytheon MIM-104 Patriot air defense missile system
Oerlikon Contraves Skyguard 35mm Twin Cannon Short Range air defense system
Lockheed Martin THAAD anti-ballistic missile defense system.
The americans couldnt even defend their own base. And those were tactical strikes. 

Now the entire western world is behind the ukies, and a few cheap drones are wreaking havoc, strategically humiliating western doctrine and has the ukies desperate for ad


----------



## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> Those drones not only humiliated western defence systems. But. they are methodically and systematically dismantling ukraines vital infastracture piece by piece.
> 
> The ukies are claiming to shoot 3 of them down per ak round. So i dont see what the butthurt is for?
> 
> As an added bonus they have exposed a MASSIVE western strategic weakness
> 
> *The west cant build anything cheaply anymore*
> 
> attrition warfare with cheap pgms will quickly exhaust western resources. This is the lesson Russia and many other countries will be taking from this war.
> 
> Thanks to Iran.


What war are you watching or do you have your eyes closed?
Asking for a friend


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588232554280206337

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Ahmadbhutta01

zartosht said:


> View attachment 892785
> 
> 
> 
> This shutdown half of saudi oil production in a single strike. When they were on high alert in the middle of a war with this inventory of american multibillion dollar garbage.
> 
> 
> 
> 17 Lockheed Martin AN/FPS-117 long-range phased array, 3-dimensional air search radar.
> 6 Northrop-Grumman AN/TPS-43 portable 3-dimensional tactical air search radar.
> Raytheon Improved HAWK air defense missile system.
> Raytheon MIM-104 Patriot air defense missile system
> Oerlikon Contraves Skyguard 35mm Twin Cannon Short Range air defense system
> Lockheed Martin THAAD anti-ballistic missile defense system.
> The americans couldnt even defend their own base. And those were tactical strikes.
> 
> Now the entire western world is behind the ukies, and a few cheap drones are wreaking havoc, strategically humiliating western doctrine and has the ukies desperate for ad


What do u expect the Saudis f15s and f18s to do. Just sit idle? That's mullajs patience


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588299808783372288


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## MeFishToo

zartosht said:


> View attachment 892785
> 
> 
> 
> This shutdown half of saudi oil production in a single strike. When they were on high alert in the middle of a war with this inventory of american multibillion dollar garbage.
> 
> 
> 
> 17 Lockheed Martin AN/FPS-117 long-range phased array, 3-dimensional air search radar.
> 6 Northrop-Grumman AN/TPS-43 portable 3-dimensional tactical air search radar.
> Raytheon Improved HAWK air defense missile system.
> Raytheon MIM-104 Patriot air defense missile system
> Oerlikon Contraves Skyguard 35mm Twin Cannon Short Range air defense system
> Lockheed Martin THAAD anti-ballistic missile defense system.
> The americans couldnt even defend their own base. And those were tactical strikes.
> 
> Now the entire western world is behind the ukies, and a few cheap drones are wreaking havoc, strategically humiliating western doctrine and has the ukies desperate for ad


So exactly what do you mean by “the best NATO has to offer” in Ukraine? You said “yet again”, so youre implying the best NATO has to offer is in Ukraine, and the flying lawnmower is defeating it.

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## Deino

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588215095510941696



FAKE!! … And this alone shows how unreliable and stupid this poster and this twitter sire is, since it was not from the Mediterranean but from the White sea.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588288613468758016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588305104272510976

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## MeFishToo

1ndy said:


> He thinks that 1 Iris-T and few GEPARD can cover entire Ukraine. Let NASAMS and Iris-T come in full strength and see how these flying scooters will stop over night.


I know what he implies. He is just an iranian fanboy cheering random terrorbombing of unguarded civilian infrastructure. I just want him to point out exactly what the best NATO has to offer has got to do with it.

I think the western strategy is all wrong when dealing with these bombings of infrastructure. Give Ukraine the means to retaliate on russian soil. It would be easy to construct a few thousend drones like this and give them cruise missiles too. Let the russians have a taste themself, and let Putin choke on his nuclear threats. We‘re not supposed to bow to nuclear threats, so why should the ukrainians. If ukrainian infrastructure are considered legit target so must russian infrastructure be.

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## zartosht

MeFishToo said:


> I know what he implies. He is just an iranian fanboy cheering random terrorbombing of unguarded civilian infrastructure. I just want him to point out exactly what the best NATO has to offer has got to do with it.
> 
> I think the western strategy is all wrong when dealing with these bombings of infrastructure. Give Ukraine the means to retaliate on russian soil. It would be easy to construct a few thousend drones like this and give them cruise missiles too. Let the russians have a taste themself, and let Putin choke on his nuclear threats. We‘re not supposed to bow to nuclear threats, so why should the ukrainians. If ukrainian infrastructure are considered legit target so must russian infrastructure be.



Please do reference what wunderweapon nato has to counter the doritos?

In what quantity?

At what production rate? 

If all of the above doesnt match the dorito, that means you have a strategic problem.

Yes we know ridiculously priced western 500 k missiles can take them down. But if they are not available because the.cost is too much, or they cant produce enough or whatever other excuse you come up with. The. You have a seriousssss strategic problem.

Also 100k stingers are on video repeatedly missing the shaheds… i dont recal many (or any) footage of a successful intercept from stingers. 

If ukies are taking these down like they say. They wouldnt have so much buttthurt and they wouldnt be so desperate for AD

But like i said before pastry man. The ukies are taking 3 out per ak round. So whats the problem here?

Im sure when fateh’s and their 500kg warheads coming in at mach 4 on ukie heads smae thing will happen. , we will just experience more breathtaking rambo ukies shooting them down with hunting rifles and slingshots #natopropaganda

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Take it up with him, idiot.



Take responsibility for what you post, and If it is wrong , correct it !

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## khansaheeb

Putin says Russia 'doing everything' to help Iran join Asian security bloc


Iranian leader trumpets cooperation with Moscow to overcome Western isolation




www.middleeasteye.net




Putin says Russia 'doing everything' to help Iran join Asian security bloc​Iranian leader trumpets cooperation with Moscow to overcome Western isolation





Russian President Vladimir Putin meets with his Iranian counterpart Ebrahim Raisi on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) leaders' summit in Samarkand on September 15, 2022 (AFP).
By 
MEE staff
Published date: 15 September 2022 18:27 UTC | Last update: 1 month 2 weeks ago
192Shares
























Russia is accelerating Iran's bid to become a full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), a central Asian security bloc dominated by Moscow and Beijing, and designed as a counterweight to Western influence in the region.
"We are doing everything to make Iran a full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation," Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday in Uzbekistan during a meeting with his Iranian counterpart, Ebrahim Raisi.
Iran applied for membership in 2008 and is one of four observer states in the SCO. Last year, the security body approved Iran's application for accession, overcoming concerns about letting a country under UN and US sanctions into the group.
The group has eight full members: China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, India and Pakistan.



Russia-Ukraine war: Moscow's quest for Middle East arms deals upended by fighting
Read More »
On Wednesday, Iran signed new documents to advance its full membership.
"By signing the document for full membership of the SCO, now Iran has entered a new stage of various economic, commercial, transit and energy cooperation," Hossein Amirabdollahian, Iran's top diplomat, wrote on social media.
Grigory Logvinov, deputy secretary-general of the organisation, told Russian state TV that Iran would now be able to take part in the bloc's meetings, although it is still some way from achieving full membership.
Russia looks East​The move is the latest sign of Russia and Iran inching closer to each other. For years, Moscow has been able to trumpet its larger size, economic ties to the West and sophisticated defence industry as advantages over its historic and more isolated partner.
However, following the invasion of Ukraine, Russia has become more isolated in the West. Its defence industry, long a source of pride for leaders in Moscow, has been hamstrung by Western sanctions and battlefield losses.
Russia has since turned to Iran for assistance in acquiring armed drones and sidestepping Western sanctions. On Thursday, Putin said a delegation of 80 large companies would visit Iran next week.
For its part, Iran has welcomed the growing proximity of Moscow, particularly as it finds itself more isolated in the West with the near-collapse of talks to revive the 2015 nuclear deal.

Speaking alongside Putin on Thursday, Iran's Raisi said cooperation between the two US-sanctioned countries would be beneficial to both.



Ukrainian fighters unfazed by Iran drone supplies to Russia
Read More »
"The relationship between countries that are sanctioned by the US, such as Iran, Russia or other countries, can overcome many problems and issues and make them stronger," Raisi said.
"The Americans think whichever country they impose sanctions on, it will be stopped; their perception is a wrong one."
Raisi added that his country was "seriously determined to develop bilateral strategic relations" with Russia in the fields of politics, economy, trade, and aerospace.
Many business and political leaders in Iran expected to benefit from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, with a rise in oil and commodity prices.
Yet Russia has been forced to slash prices for its goods as it contends with Western sanctions, meaning that even as Tehran and Moscow align closer in the political realm, they have been forced to compete with each other in markets such as China and Central Asia.

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> as i recall after hijacking Ukraine those region wanted independence and it was Ukraine army that attack them first .
> interestingly i was not talking about clash between armed forces , i was talking about Ukraine shelling villages and civilians in that 8 years .


As you 'recall' that you were in theatre of operation or your village got attacked or you have some credible news source about destruction of infrastructure. Pls share some information vs. a lose recollection. If you were not there in person than a non-kremlin mouthpiece would be good.



Dalit said:


> The more they try to reach for China, the further China gets away.


Yes its perfect for China: lowest GDP growth in Asia, 40% of debt locked up in a housing bubble where there are more apartments than people to buy them.

You will have get past the fact that war in one is better for China (or vice versa): its all interlinked. The sooner this is over the quicker both camps can get along (China and west).



Hack-Hook said:


> you forget in donetsk and luhansk they were fighting for independence since 2014 , only thing that russia did help them achieve it its not artificial state like kosovo


Iran didn't let Syria grant its western population independence, why should Ukraine have let those? Heck Iran doesn't even let its population express itself , by hypcocritically you are preaching that others should give independence to its colonies. Nobody volunteers it

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## Soldier35

One of the commanders of the PMC "Wagner" revealed the details of the rapid offensive of their units in the battles in Ukraine. As it turned out, PMC "Wagner" use the tactics of the fire shaft in their offensives. Details of the work of PMC "Wagner" in the video.






A column of military and automotive equipment of the Ukrainian army came under attack by Russian artillery in the Nikolaev-Krivoy Rog direction. According to preliminary data, an armored vehicle of the Ukrainian army and three vehicles used by the military were destroyed.






The Ukrainian army received the first Armtac 400 demining vehicle manufactured by the British company Armtrac Ltd. The Armtrac 400 is the largest in the British manufacturer's line of demining equipment. The machine is equipped with a 3-meter rotary cultivator that plows the ground to a depth of 55 cm and withstands the detonation of anti-tank mines equivalent to 10 kg of TNT. According to the developers, a skilled operator of the complex can clean more than 2.5 thousand square meters in an hour. The complex can be controlled by an operator from an armored cabin equipped with air conditioning, or from a remote control, being at a distance of up to 800 meters from the car. The cost of Armtac 400 is about 500 thousand dollars.






An episode of the work of PMC Wagner in Ukraine has been published. After storming a stronghold in the Zaitsevo area, the soldiers of the PMC Wagner take prisoners of the Ukrainian army in the Bakhmut direction.






the air battle with the Su-24 tactical front-line bomber of the Ukrainian Air Force. Developed in 1975, the MiG-31 still remains unsurpassed in the class of heavy fighters.

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587930447065088000
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587933835827847171


You are smarter than this. Posting quotes from a guy who is obviously a a Russian fan and as far back as 2014 was on RT calling for annexation of eastern Ukraine. He couldn't even secure Senate nomination to become Ambassador to Germany under Trump (where anybody could get through).

Just because he has an American accent and former military does not mean he speaks for the US military. Find me one person on TV thats in Russia today and former Russian military that disagrees with the operation. Or because you can't find one, does that mean everybody agrees with Putin?



zartosht said:


> Those drones not only humiliated western defence systems. But. they are methodically and systematically dismantling ukraines vital infastracture piece by piece.
> 
> The ukies are claiming to shoot 3 of them down per ak round. So i dont see what the butthurt is for?
> 
> As an added bonus they have exposed a MASSIVE western strategic weakness
> 
> *The west cant build anything cheaply anymore*
> 
> attrition warfare with cheap pgms will quickly exhaust western resources. This is the lesson Russia and many other countries will be taking from this war.
> 
> Thanks to Iran.


Humiliation? All those years of equipping Hamas has shown how worthless Iranian capability is since Israel hardly shivers and is freely assassinating inside Iran. What Iran has excelled it is the equivalent of US B-17 carpet bombing: inaccurate projectiles that can attack civilian targets and cause civilian pain.

No single use of Iranian asset in Ukraine has changed the situation on the battlefield. Only caused pain to civilian infrastructure. Much like Iranians do in Syria and Kurdistan, and Gaza (when Israel retaliates). 

That is what Iranians are good at.



zartosht said:


> View attachment 892785
> 
> 
> 
> This shutdown half of saudi oil production in a single strike. When they were on high alert in the middle of a war with this inventory of american multibillion dollar garbage.
> 
> 
> 
> 17 Lockheed Martin AN/FPS-117 long-range phased array, 3-dimensional air search radar.
> 6 Northrop-Grumman AN/TPS-43 portable 3-dimensional tactical air search radar.
> Raytheon Improved HAWK air defense missile system.
> Raytheon MIM-104 Patriot air defense missile system
> Oerlikon Contraves Skyguard 35mm Twin Cannon Short Range air defense system
> Lockheed Martin THAAD anti-ballistic missile defense system.
> The americans couldnt even defend their own base. And those were tactical strikes.
> 
> Now the entire western world is behind the ukies, and a few cheap drones are wreaking havoc, strategically humiliating western doctrine and has the ukies desperate for ad



Where is this prowess against Israel? Iran is too pussy to do anything there. Saudis are hardly a warrior country. They probably were sleeping at the switch so to speak. And didn't Iran gets it General killed by US but didn't do anything proportional? Yes a missile strike but with sufficient warning that there wasn't a single casualty. Thats Iranian victory....in capable of striking militarily

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## aviator_fan

zartosht said:


> Hes by faaaaaar the most reliable mainstream american voice. Highest rated by a wide margin.
> 
> But forget all that. You can Refute his points not attack his supposed character short comings.
> 
> If hes saying something thats a lie point it out. If your just gonna call him a liar and based on that wrong opinion dismiss his points without refute shows how intellectually bankrupt you are. Pathetic


Do the math: he (like Fox) is top rated because its the only channel that takes an anti-everything biden is doing view. There is only one channel that will fabricate facts (like Republicans will never cut social security when thats pretty much what the politicians have said in the past). All people anti-democrat/or voter fraud gravitate to this channel because they have nowhere else to go.

The other half have a dozen networks to go to. He is top rated because he is on Fox and Fox there is no alternative to Fox who just oppose democrats

Tomorrow if all those dozen networks went away went to one, then that would be also a top Rated channel.

So worship away T. Carlson as he makes his own alternate reality. 
Oh and btw, do you have a top rated anchor like this in Iran who opposes Iran's interference in Lebanon/Yemen? Pls share that as well so we can worship him.



Dalit said:


> When American troops land in brown lands it is all for spreading democracy. When Russian troops land in Ukraine it is a death wish. Nice.


There was no reason to invade Iraq. That much is true. But if you are comparing facts (morality aside) in two countries over 15 years US lost 4,000 service men. Russians have lost many times that number in 6 months

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## The SC

Saudis are hardly a warrior country?

Think a bit..who brought you Islam with their blood..stop your stupid arrogance or better yet your ignorance,,

Another thing..Iran as the whole of the Middle Est know that Usrael is NATO in disguise..that is why everyone is prudent there..



aviator_fan said:


> You are smarter than this. Posting quotes from a guy who is obviously a a Russian fan and as far back as 2014 was on RT calling for annexation of eastern Ukraine. He couldn't even secure Senate nomination to become Ambassador to Germany under Trump (where anybody could get through).
> 
> Just because he has an American accent and former military does not mean he speaks for the US military. Find me one person on TV thats in Russia today and former Russian military that disagrees with the operation. Or because you can't find one, does that mean everybody agrees with Putin?
> 
> 
> Humiliation? All those years of equipping Hamas has shown how worthless Iranian capability is since Israel hardly shivers and is freely assassinating inside Iran. What Iran has excelled it is the equivalent of US B-17 carpet bombing: inaccurate projectiles that can attack civilian targets and cause civilian pain.
> 
> No single use of Iranian asset in Ukraine has changed the situation on the battlefield. Only caused pain to civilian infrastructure. Much like Iranians do in Syria and Kurdistan, and Gaza (when Israel retaliates).
> 
> That is what Iranians are good at.
> 
> 
> 
> Where is this prowess against Israel? Iran is too pussy to do anything there. Saudis are hardly a warrior country. They probably were sleeping at the switch so to speak. And didn't Iran gets it General killed by US but didn't do anything proportional? Yes a missile strike but with sufficient warning that there wasn't a single casualty. Thats Iranian victory....in capable of striking militarily


Saudis are hardly a warrior country?

Think a bit..who brought you Islam with their blood..stop your stupid arrogance or better yet your ignorance,,

Another thing..Iran as the whole of the Middle Est know that Usrael is NATO in disguise..that is why everyone is prudent there..

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## Reashot Xigwin

zartosht said:


> Those drones not only humiliated western defence systems. But. they are methodically and systematically dismantling ukraines vital infastracture piece by piece.
> 
> The ukies are claiming to shoot 3 of them down per ak round. So i dont see what the butthurt is for?
> 
> As an added bonus they have exposed a MASSIVE western strategic weakness
> 
> *The west cant build anything cheaply anymore*
> 
> attrition warfare with cheap pgms will quickly exhaust western resources. This is the lesson Russia and many other countries will be taking from this war.
> 
> Thanks to Iran.



Targeting civilians & civilians infrastructures is not the own you people think it is. Terrorbombing didn't help Hitler it will not help Putin either. 

Iranian drone maybe cheaper but they are not effective compared to switchblade or Bayraktar drone which the latter singlehandedly turn the tide of war twice already. 

Kherson already being abandoned while the Russian waste their pgm & drones on useless target. 

BUT the Russian are wInNiNg:

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587930447065088000
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587933835827847171


Not from the army I think it’s more a CIA operation. If things go shit, the gov can say they have nothing to do with that. They will blame everything on the secret service and fire the CIA chief.


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## Viet

Putin as Nicolas

He gives 195k rubbe ($3,200) as Christmas gift to every contract soldier, recruit and mobi.

In return he expects “no retreat”. Implementing Stalin order in WW2.

Retreating soldier without approval will face execution on the spot.


----------



## MeFishToo

zartosht said:


> Please do reference what wunderweapon nato has to counter the doritos?
> 
> In what quantity?
> 
> At what production rate?
> 
> If all of the above doesnt match the dorito, that means you have a strategic problem.
> 
> Yes we know ridiculously priced western 500 k missiles can take them down. But if they are not available because the.cost is too much, or they cant produce enough or whatever other excuse you come up with. The. You have a seriousssss strategic problem.
> 
> Also 100k stingers are on video repeatedly missing the shaheds… i dont recal many (or any) footage of a successful intercept from stingers.
> 
> If ukies are taking these down like they say. They wouldnt have so much buttthurt and they wouldnt be so desperate for AD
> 
> But like i said before pastry man. The ukies are taking 3 out per ak round. So whats the problem here?
> 
> Im sure when fateh’s and their 500kg warheads coming in at mach 4 on ukie heads smae thing will happen. , we will just experience more breathtaking rambo ukies shooting them down with hunting rifles and slingshots #natopropaganda


Now youre just beating a strawman. I was asking you what “ the best NATO has to offer” meant. I guess the best NATO has to offer against strikes like that are rifles, manpads and very expensive missiles which isnt available, yet Ukraine is desperate for anti aircraft systems from NATO?? 
Doesnt make much sense to me. You just said the best NATO has to offer is already there.

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## Reashot Xigwin

MeFishToo said:


> Now youre just beating a strawman. I was asking you what “ the best NATO has to offer” meant. I guess the best NATO has to offer against strikes like that are rifles, manpads and very expensive missiles which isnt available, yet Ukraine is desperate for anti aircraft systems from NATO??
> Doesnt make much sense to me. You just said the best NATO has to offer is already there.



Fun fact: Ukraine pretty much defeated Russia mostly with NATO hand me down. This is not even a war against the full might of NATO. It's more like fighting Russia with NATO's loose change. And winning. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586369393449050114
Reminder that Russia should be Balkanize for the safety of mankind. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588410574572224512

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## Hack-Hook

aviator_fan said:


> Iran didn't let Syria grant its western population independence, why should Ukraine have let those? Heck Iran doesn't even let its population express itself , by hypcocritically you are preaching that others should give independence to its colonies. Nobody volunteers it


well you say it yourself , western population . did people in any area of Syria voted for independence ?
and those Iran helped Syria fight was a cozy alliance of 96 nations rejects , antisocial , head-choppers and cannibals
why they refused Asad offer to held an election by international observers and let people decide , and they said no , they won't accept any election if Assad participate in it ?


----------



## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> Saudis are hardly a warrior country?
> 
> Think a bit..who brought you Islam with their blood..stop your stupid arrogance or better yet your ignorance,,
> 
> Another thing..Iran as the whole of the Middle Est know that Usrael is NATO in disguise..that is why everyone is prudent there..


KSA , problem is not having no warrior and lack the people who are willing to fight .
its that they tend to try to copy NATO tactics instead of developing their own tactics. 
by doing so they become predictable , and their army to much rely on western support.
unless they fix those management problem , let just say their army is inferior to what it has potential to be.


----------



## Paul2

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Reminder that Russia should be Balkanize for the safety of mankind.



Russia will likely Balkanize itself even without Western intervention.

Shocking digits I read when I began digging it up deeper were that 80% of Russians live west of Urals, while the real digit of ethnic Russians in Russia is likely much lower than 80% reported.

Much of people with Polish/Ukrainian/German/Greek/Baltic/Ruthenian/Bohemian ancestry are recorded as Russians in the Russian population census. By conservative accounts 1/4 of Russian Russians are not Russians at all.

That is due to Russian Empire using interned European nationals for forced colonisation of Siberia, and Manchuria. I just only now noticed that town names in East Russia seem to be actually Ukrainian, and not Russian. Take a look north of Vladivistok.







Even Russian Russians are not necessarily the same people, for example Russians living in Urals tried to secede from Russia in early nineties. And those fellows also descend from forcefully drafted colonists from an earlier period.

40% of Russians simply have no attachment to what was historical Russian state-entity, and have no agency in Russia as Russian Empire.

Uralians see Urals as a separate entity from Russia-Muscovy which kept Urals as a subjugated extractive colony. Uralians were assumed not to be citizens Russia-Muscovy until, well, Russian Empire fell apart. And even in USSR l they were kind of marginalised.

Putin's Russian Empire 2.0 assumes abolishing Russian Federation, and thus destroying the social contract "non-Russian ethnic Russians" had with the central state.

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Iranian drone maybe cheaper but they are not effective compared to switchblade or Bayraktar drone which the latter singlehandedly turn the tide of war twice already.
> 
> Kherson already being abandoned while the Russian waste their pgm & drones on useless target.
> 
> BUT the Russian are wInNiNg:


you see different capabilities and different type of weapon , you want drones like byraktar TB2 , we have mohajer-6 , Ababil-5 , Kaman-12
you want something like switchblade we have yaser and Me'eraj 521,.....
you want low RCS attack drone we have shahed-171 and shahed-191
you want something like MQ-1 we have Shahed-129 .
you want drone to attack enemy radars we have Omid and Arash
you want bigger drone that can carry up to 500kg of weapons we have shahed-149 and kaman-22
and you want cheap drones to disable enemy double use infrastructure and keep them offline , we have Shahed-131, Shahed-136, Me'eraj-541, Ababil-2
you want a fast one to be able to deliver heavy punch , even be able to attack air target , we have Karrar

as you see 2-3 type for each class

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Fun fact: Ukraine pretty much defeated Russia mostly with NATO hand me down. This is not even a war against the full might of NATO. It's more like fighting Russia with NATO's loose change. And winning.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586369393449050114
> Reminder that Russia should be Balkanize for the safety of mankind.


shame on USA ,United Kingdom, Germany , Sweden , France those countries help less than anybody while having well advanced military industry and have more than rest .
if they have given as much as Poland gave , right now Ukraine army was fighting at Kamchatka

come on that much is twice Iran budget , for military and its not even for one year just half a year . its mind bugling , how ineffective Ukraine use that much resource that Russia is still inside Ukraine .
i think its time NATO , for example Poland army take over Ukraine army and beat Russia out of Ukraine , for compensation and sacrifice Poland is making in that war then Ukraine can give them LVIV and area around it

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> you see different capabilities and different type of weapon , you want drones like byraktar TB2 , we have mohajer-6 , Ababil-5 , Kaman-12
> you want something like switchblade we have yaser and Me'eraj 521,.....
> you want low RCS attack drone we have shahed-171 and shahed-191
> you want something like MQ-1 we have Shahed-129 .
> you want drone to attack enemy radars we have Omid and Arash
> you want bigger drone that can carry up to 500kg of weapons we have shahed-149 and kaman-22
> and you want cheap drones to disable enemy double use infrastructure and keep them offline , we have Shahed-131, Shahed-136, Me'eraj-541, Ababil-2
> you want a fast one to be able to deliver heavy punch , even be able to attack air target , we have Karrar
> 
> as you see 2-3 type for each class


If people want drones they won't buy it from iran. The only one that do simply have no choice. 

US, Israel & now Turkey dominates the military drone market with better drones overall. And better after sales than Iran.



Hack-Hook said:


> shame on USA ,United Kingdom, Germany , Sweden , France those countries help less than anybody while having well advanced military industry and have more than rest .
> if they have given as much as Poland gave , right now Ukraine army was fighting at Kamchatka
> 
> come on that much is twice Iran budget , for military and its not even for one year just half a year . its mind bugling , how ineffective Ukraine use that much resource that Russia is still inside Ukraine .
> i think its time NATO , for example Poland army take over Ukraine army and beat Russia out of Ukraine , for compensation and sacrifice Poland is making in that war then Ukraine can give them LVIV and area around it


Russia already left Kherson. Ukraine already won you just refuse to believe it.

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> If people want drones they won't buy it from iran. The only one that do simply have no choice.
> 
> US, Israel & now Turkey dominates the military drone market with better drones overall. And better after sales than Iran.


but some countries even buy drone making factories from Iran.
the people who don't buy from Iran are the one who afraid from USA . the ones who are not afraid of USA sanction actually buy from Iran.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia already left Kherson. Ukraine already won you just refuse to believe it.


I say Kamchatka , you are talking about Kherson ? and no Ukraine didn't completely take Kherson , only civilian left

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> but some countries even buy drone making factories from Iran.
> the people who don't buy from Iran are the one who afraid from USA . the ones who are not afraid of USA sanction actually buy from Iran.


That's because they either can't afford better alternative or are on sanctioned list like Iran. 

My country despite having friendly relation with Iran. Doesn't even consider Iranian drone as up to par with western one. Even thinking about setting up Baykar factory inside the country & thinking of buying the newer TB-3 . 

Even the Ukrainian military thinks Iranian Drones are inferior. Do to their use of over the counter civilian parts.


----------



## Paul2

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Even the Ukrainian military thinks Iranian Drones are inferior. Do to their use of over the counter civilian parts.



I read Shahed used Ukrainian parts. That's an irony.

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> That's because they either can't afford better alternative or are on sanctioned list like Iran.
> 
> My country despite having friendly relation with Iran. Doesn't even consider Iranian drone as up to par with western one. Even thinking about setting up Baykar factory inside the country & thinking of buying the newer TB-3 .
> 
> Even the Ukrainian military thinks Iranian Drones are inferior. Do to their use of over the counter civilian parts.


as i said any type of drone for any needs .
those inferior drone shot down 40% of Ukraine energy grid and managed in a single strike hamper 50% of KSA oil export capability

also Is Tajikistan on any sanction list ? they recently bought a drone factory from us .



Reashot Xigwin said:


> My country despite having friendly relation with Iran. Doesn't even consider Iranian drone as up to par with western one. Even thinking about setting up Baykar factory inside the country & thinking of buying the newer TB-3 .


is your country Indonesia willing to get sanctioned because of buying military equipment from Iran ?
don't you think that was the reason you didn't considered Iranian option


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588140159270375424

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588434914256781313


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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> as i said any type of drone for any needs .
> those inferior drone shot down 40% of Ukraine energy grid and managed in a single strike hamper 50% of KSA oil export capability
> 
> also Is Tajikistan on any sanction list ? they recently bought a drone factory from us .
> 
> 
> is your country Indonesia willing to get sanctioned because of buying military equipment from Iran ?
> don't you think that was the reason you didn't considered Iranian option


Targeting civilian infrastructure is not a win. You tosh. Also Is Tajikistan rich? & Kazakhstan & their neighboring countries buying up Bayraktar. My point still stand. 

No we don't buy it. Because Iranian made drone is shit.

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Targeting civilian infrastructure is not a win. You tosh. Also Is Tajikistan rich? & Kazakhstan & their neighboring countries buying up Bayraktar. My point still stand.
> 
> No we don't buy it. Because Iranian made drone is shit.


no , its not shit , what make it shit according to you . 
and does anybody prevented Tajikistan , buying from China , Turkiye and Israel.
now look at the deal , Kazakhstan get some TB2 , Tajikistan get a drone factory and expertise to build drones . wonder who is the winner here ?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> no , its not shit , what make it shit according to you .
> and does anybody prevented Tajikistan , buying from China , Turkiye and Israel.
> now look at the deal , Kazakhstan get some TB2 , Tajikistan get a drone factory and expertise to build drones . wonder who is the winner here ?


The Ukrainian themselves gave the bad review and seeing they mostly got shot down the moment Ukrainian set up their AAD is pretty much telling of quality. Also they can't even auto adjust their targeting. Basically limiting their effectiveness unlike other loitering munition. 

I can assure you that no one ever call out Turkish or Israel drones for being low quality. Even by those that suffered under their business end. Why do you think Shahed got called a flying tuk-tuk here? 

Baykar tech also offers to set up factories on the host country. it's up to them if they want to pursue it. Iran is not special.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The Ukrainian themselves gave the bad review and seeing they mostly got shot down the moment Ukrainian set up their AAD is pretty much telling of quality. Also they can't even auto adjust their targeting. Basically limiting their effectiveness unlike other loitering munition.


the problem is Ukraine energy grid say something else . and about Ukrainian claims , were is shot down videos , only debris video . for god sake its a suicide UAV , its supposed to leave debris after hitting the target 


Reashot Xigwin said:


> I can assure you that no one ever call out Turkish or Israel drones for being low quality. Even by those that suffered under their business end. Why do you think Shahed got called a flying tuk-tuk here?


maybe because of the engine sound , it is also called flying dorito , flying moped, flying lawn mover and many other things , Ukraine energy grid is talk for itself
this is google search for Flying Tuk-Tuk tell me in what page you find shahed-136 ?


Reashot Xigwin said:


> Baykar tech also offers to set up factories on the host country. it's up to them if they want to pursue it. Iran is not special.


who pursued that ?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> the problem is Ukraine energy grid say something else . and about Ukrainian claims , were is shot down videos , only debris video . for god sake its a suicide UAV , its supposed to leave debris after hitting the target
> 
> maybe because of the engine sound , it is also called flying dorito , flying moped, flying lawn mover and many other things , Ukraine energy grid is talk for itself
> this is google search for Flying Tuk-Tuk tell me in what page you find shahed-136 ?
> 
> who pursued that ?



How many military target Shahed has destroyed in Ukraine? There's your answer.


----------



## That Guy

zartosht said:


> Hes by faaaaaar the most reliable mainstream american voice. Highest rated by a wide margin.
> 
> But forget all that. You can Refute his points not attack his supposed character short comings.
> 
> If hes saying something thats a lie point it out. If your just gonna call him a liar and based on that wrong opinion dismiss his points without refute shows how intellectually bankrupt you are. Pathetic


I'm not calling him a liar, he's calling himself a liar.

Don't call me morally bankrupt when you quote a literal admitted liar, and one that's actually extremely racist as well.

Good job.

Character assassination is accusing someone of something they're not. I'm just pointing out TC is a court proven liar.

The US is not about to run out of diesel, hes just fear mongering. He presented 0 proof of his claims.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588140159270375424


Wow not bad

Russia uses weapons intended for the nuclear war against NATO.

It’s only fair NATO delivers the most modern air defense to Ukraine.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Russian keep taking the L like there's no tomorrow. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588405681262153731

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## Viet

jungle warfare


----------



## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> How many military target Shahed has destroyed in Ukraine? There's your answer.


Russia claim some barrack and command center and training facility and what you call civillian target , NATO call double use target 
and more importantly , as i said each drone has its own mission and use . and i listed example of various type of Iranian drones


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russian keep taking the L like there's no tomorrow.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588405681262153731


Yes it looks the Russians retreating to the east of the Dnipro but I am sympathetic with Ukraine strategy: precautious approach, slow but steady advance, cutting them off supplies, letting them to suffer from hunger and thirst, pounding them with artillery until they piss off.








Ukrainian artillery unit members fire towards Kherson on October 28, 2022 | Bulent Kilic/AFP via Getty Images

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## Deino

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Take it up with him, idiot.




So much on honesty? You made a mistake - in fact a most stupid one to post from an unreliable source which should give you a hint to question the sources you are quoting - and soi have the balls to admit it instead of even more stupid ranting against the one who unveiled this fake!

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## jhungary

Seems like Russia is abandoning Kherson

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia claim some barrack and command center and training facility and what you call civillian target , NATO call double use target
> and more importantly , as i said each drone has its own mission and use . and i listed example of various type of Iranian drones



Russia claim an orphanage as terrorist training camp in Syria. These the country that have the ball to promise it won't invade Ukraine. 

So far Ukraine has not recorded any military facility destroyed by Shahed or any Iranian drones. Only civilian infrastructure.



jhungary said:


> Seems like Russia is abandoning Kherson



I was promised a bloodbath ☹️ Ukraine better cut them off before they all left. 

I want to see them paraded in kyiv.

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So far Ukraine has not recorded any military facility destroyed by Shahed or any Iranian drones. Only civilian infrastructure.


on that you are wrong , they just said they have emptied those facilities before


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

The subhume are being subhume

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588439848788049920

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## RoadAmerica

Hack-Hook said:


> you see different capabilities and different type of weapon , you want drones like byraktar TB2 , we have mohajer-6 , Ababil-5 , Kaman-12
> you want something like switchblade we have yaser and Me'eraj 521,.....
> you want low RCS attack drone we have shahed-171 and shahed-191
> you want something like MQ-1 we have Shahed-129 .
> you want drone to attack enemy radars we have Omid and Arash
> you want bigger drone that can carry up to 500kg of weapons we have shahed-149 and kaman-22
> and you want cheap drones to disable enemy double use infrastructure and keep them offline , we have Shahed-131, Shahed-136, Me'eraj-541, Ababil-2
> you want a fast one to be able to deliver heavy punch , even be able to attack air target , we have Karrar
> 
> as you see 2-3 type for each class


Just give it up.
You claim iran is some drone supa powa yet they can’t even handle tiny Isreal directly, only through sending arms to terrorist states.
As many others have pointed out these crappy drones aren’t turning the tide in Russia’s favor, they’re just using them to hit soft targets.
But please go on for pages more about mighty Iran who’s air force still consists of F-14’s and has to beat women who protest for rights that women all over the worlds have had for decades.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588434914256781313


Looks like Ukraine updated it to be autonomously driven 🤣

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## Hack-Hook

RoadAmerica said:


> Just give it up.
> You claim iran is some drone supa powa yet they can’t even handle tiny Isreal directly, only through sending arms to terrorist states.


that means you claim Lebanon government is a terrorist state
some may say Israel and USA can't deal with Iran directly only by some desperate act of terror .


RoadAmerica said:


> As many others have pointed out these crappy drones aren’t turning the tide in Russia’s favor, they’re just using them to hit soft targets.


if you say so. then why each one or two week Ukraine call Iran about them, why there is no day passing by that they don't complain about it , why some English politician went to the extend to fabricate the narrative that Iran provide them to Russia is against the UN security council resolution 2231 (2015)

and how you explain this


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588491385577279491

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588498197252800512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588388115303268352

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## thetutle

I feel terribly sorry for the russian soldiers who are about to be shipped off and they have to beg and protest that their families haven't been given the $3,000 that they were promised yet. 

I mean on a human level thats heartbreaking because they must know that the full coordination of NATO is calibrated to ensure they are killed on that battlefield. 

I think it's terrible that this is all happening, all to make the biggest country in the world a tiny bit bigger.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588524993889325057


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## Hassan Al-Somal

RoadAmerica said:


> Just give it up.
> You claim iran is some drone supa powa yet they can’t even handle tiny Isreal directly, only through sending arms to terrorist states.
> As many others have pointed out these crappy drones aren’t turning the tide in Russia’s favor, they’re just using them to hit soft targets.
> But please go on for pages more about mighty Iran who’s air force still consists of F-14’s and has to beat women who protest for rights that women all over the worlds have had for decades.
> 
> 
> Looks like Ukraine updated it to be autonomously driven 🤣



Tiny Israel has the support of the US and the entire West. If the Freemasonry world weren't supporting them, there wouldn't have been Israel in the first place.

With respect to the Iranian drones that the Russians have deployed, they sure shut down the power, energy, and rail systems of Ukraine. They've also been used to show the locations of the air defense systems that the Ukrainians were using to target the Shaheed 131 and 136 drones. Then Russian air force or other drones follow and take them out. So in essence, Shaheed - 131 and 136 allowed the Russian military to fill a void in their operations. 

Besides, if the Iranian weapons shipments to Russia were not as effective as you claimed, why are the the US State Department, EU, and NATO secretary General constantly making a fuzz about them? The endless noise from Western leaders clearly show the effectiveness of these cheap drones.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> Please do reference what wunderweapon nato has to counter the doritos?
> 
> In what quantity?
> 
> At what production rate?
> 
> If all of the above doesnt match the dorito, that means you have a strategic problem.
> 
> Yes we know ridiculously priced western 500 k missiles can take them down. But if they are not available because the.cost is too much, or they cant produce enough or whatever other excuse you come up with. The. You have a seriousssss strategic problem.
> 
> Also 100k stingers are on video repeatedly missing the shaheds… i dont recal many (or any) footage of a successful intercept from stingers.
> 
> If ukies are taking these down like they say. They wouldnt have so much buttthurt and they wouldnt be so desperate for AD
> 
> But like i said before pastry man. The ukies are taking 3 out per ak round. So whats the problem here?
> 
> Im sure when fateh’s and their 500kg warheads coming in at mach 4 on ukie heads smae thing will happen. , we will just experience more breathtaking rambo ukies shooting them down with hunting rifles and slingshots #natopropaganda


If NATO would be attacked by Iranian drones, then Iran would find its drone factories being pulverized. Rules of war gives NATO the right to invade Iran in self defense if Iran delivers military equipment to its enemies.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Seems like Russia is abandoning Kherson



AFU, and UA govt media call this a feint.

North-East of Kherson, the advance is stalled while fields have turned to mud. There is only one proper road going north-east-south-west, and it's within reach of the last RU firebase deeper within territory controlled by them.

HiMARSes sent 18 rockets on it yesterday. We will see the results once the ground dries up.

RU-UK force ratio is still like 4 to 3, but with Ukraine having more heavy equipment, and Russians having more bodies in Khesanh, and towns surrounding it.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hack-Hook said:


> that means you claim Lebanon government is a terrorist state
> some may say Israel and USA can't deal with Iran directly only by some desperate act of terror .
> 
> if you say so. then why each one or two week Ukraine call Iran about them, why there is no day passing by that they don't complain about it , why some English politician went to the extend to fabricate the narrative that Iran provide them to Russia is against the UN security council resolution 2231 (2015)
> 
> and how you explain this


It absolutely is, car bombing their own leaders sure isn’t democratic.

Do you not expect Ukraine to complain as civilians are killed using irans crappy flying bikes?



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Tiny Israel has the support of the US and the entire West. If the Freemasonry world weren't supporting them, there wouldn't have been Israel in the first place.
> 
> With respect to the Iranian drones that the Russians have deployed, they sure shut down the power, energy, and rail systems of Ukraine. They've also been used to show the locations of the air defense systems that the Ukrainians were using to target the Shaheed 131 and 136 drones. Then Russian air force or other drones follow and take them out. So in essence, Shaheed - 131 and 136 allowed the Russian military to fill a void in their operations.
> 
> Besides, if the Iranian weapons shipments to Russia were not as effective as you claimed, why are the the US State Department, EU, and NATO secretary General constantly making a fuzz about them? The endless noise from Western leaders clearly show the effectiveness of these cheap drones.


The targets you listed are soft as I’ve previously said.

The whole of Russia and China support Iran, see two can play that game. 

Now back to the Ukraine war thread

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## zartosht

MeFishToo said:


> Now youre just beating a strawman. I was asking you what “ the best NATO has to offer” meant. I guess the best NATO has to offer against strikes like that are rifles, manpads and very expensive missiles which isnt available, yet Ukraine is desperate for anti aircraft systems from NATO??
> Doesnt make much sense to me. You just said the best NATO has to offer is already there.



They have gone against and humiliated this from the saudis:


Remote-controlled air/ground radio communications sites.
17 Lockheed Martin AN/FPS-117 long-range phased array, 3-dimensional air search radar.
6 Northrop-Grumman AN/TPS-43 portable 3-dimensional tactical air search radar.
Raytheon Improved HAWK air defense missile system.
Raytheon MIM-104 Patriot air defense missile system
Oerlikon Contraves Skyguard 35mm Twin Cannon Short Range air defense system
Lockheed Martin THAAD anti-ballistic missile defense system.

This is what happened to a US airbase where one would assume would have all the latest nato garbage?









Why werent the americans able to intercept a single one? Why js it that they hit their targets with pinpoint accuracy? Why is it the US stood down after openly threatning war if Iran attacked?


And now we see german AD showing their uselessnes in ukraine.

Please tell me what wunderweapon is left? What isthis magic secret weapon nato has that its notsupplying the ukies with? 

I suggest you stick to topics more in your wheelhouse. Such as :









And keep in mind that you were still cavemen when Roman emperors like valerian, philip, julian the apostate were on their knees begging Iranian shahanshahs for their lives. Keep that jn mind before you talk down to Iran and ridicule Iranian achievements pastry man



A.P. Richelieu said:


> If NATO would be attacked by Iranian drones, then Iran would find its drone factories being pulverized. Rules of war gives NATO the right to invade Iran in self defense if Iran delivers military equipment to its enemies.



Iran would anahilate the US 5th fleet , american bases in the middle east and any poor outposts they have in syria in about a week if the US fires a firecracker at Iranian territory

Iran has openly fired at american bases, captured american troops and shot down 500 million dollar us “stealth” drones , and indirectly slauthered 1000s of american troops in iraq without an american response. Its not because of their bighearts that they ate those.

Beaides nukes, the US conventional forces in the middle east region would get absolutely anahilated by Iran in a total war scenario. Iran doesnt even consider Israel a peer anymore. Once israel can handle a single irgc division in lebanon they can come challenge Iran.

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## OldTwilight

Reashot Xigwin said:


> *Targeting civilian infrastructure is not a win.* You tosh. Also Is Tajikistan rich? & Kazakhstan & their neighboring countries buying up Bayraktar. My point still stand.
> 
> No we don't buy it. Because Iranian made drone is shit.



this is how USA,UK,Soviet won the WWII ... Genchize Khan tactics weren't honorable but those made him the winner of almost all of his wars ...

The honorable people in most wars , lose ...


----------



## Hack-Hook

RoadAmerica said:


> It absolutely is, car bombing their own leaders sure isn’t democratic.


intresting point about that bombing is that hezbollah show evident that Israel was observing the incident



RoadAmerica said:


> Do you not expect Ukraine to complain as civilians are killed using irans crappy flying bikes?


responsibility is by user not producer so they can complain to Russia


----------



## MeFishToo

zartosht said:


> They have gone against and humiliated this from the saudis:
> 
> 
> Remote-controlled air/ground radio communications sites.
> 17 Lockheed Martin AN/FPS-117 long-range phased array, 3-dimensional air search radar.
> 6 Northrop-Grumman AN/TPS-43 portable 3-dimensional tactical air search radar.
> Raytheon Improved HAWK air defense missile system.
> Raytheon MIM-104 Patriot air defense missile system
> Oerlikon Contraves Skyguard 35mm Twin Cannon Short Range air defense system
> Lockheed Martin THAAD anti-ballistic missile defense system.
> 
> This is what happened to a US airbase where one would assume would have all the latest nato garbage?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 893080
> 
> 
> 
> Why werent the americans able to intercept a single one? Why js it that they hit their targets with pinpoint accuracy? Why is it the US stood down after openly threatning war if Iran attacked?
> 
> 
> And now we see german AD showing their uselessnes in ukraine.
> 
> Please tell me what wunderweapon is left? What isthis magic secret weapon nato has that its notsupplying the ukies with?
> 
> I suggest you stick to topics more in your wheelhouse. Such as :
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 893081
> 
> 
> 
> And keep in mind that you were still cavemen when Roman emperors like valerian, philip, julian the apostate were on their knees begging Iranian shahanshahs for their lives. Keep that jn mind before you talk down to Iran and ridicule Iranian achievements pastry man
> 
> 
> 
> Iran would anahilate the US 5th fleet , american bases in the middle east and any poor outposts they have in syria in about a week if the US fires a firecracker at Iranian territory
> 
> Iran has openly fired at american bases, captured american troops and shot down 500 million dollar us “stealth” drones , and indirectly slauthered 1000s of american troops in iraq without an american response. Its not because of their bighearts that they ate those.
> 
> Beaides nukes, the US conventional forces in the middle east region would get absolutely anahilated by Iran in a total war scenario. Iran doesnt even consider Israel a peer anymore. Once israel can handle a single irgc division in lebanon they can come challenge Iran.


How far back in history do you have to reach for glory? I really dont care what happend more than a thousend years ago.
Fact is you are beating a strawman claiming NATO is unable to defend against drone attacks like that, simply because Ukraine is unable to defend every soft target at the moment.
You do very well know that such an attack wouldnt just be countered by rifles, manpads or air defence systems. It would be countered by massive air attacks, be it planes or missiles, at the launching sites and later on storage and productions sites.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

NSA Souda Bay Welcomes USS George H. W. Bush​




NAVAL SUPPORT ACTIVITY SOUDA BAY, Greece (Oct. 9, 2022) The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77) pier side at the NATO Marathi Pier Complex in Souda Bay, Crete, during a scheduled port visit on Oct. 9, 2022. The George H.W. Bush Carrier Strike Group is on a scheduled deployment in the U.S. Naval Forces Europe area of operations, employed by U.S. Sixth Fleet to defend U.S., allied, and partner interests. NSA Souda Bay is an operational ashore installation which enables and supports U.S., allied, coalition, and partner nation forces to preserve security and stability in the European, African, and Central Command areas of responsibility. (U.S. Navy photo by Nikolaos Fragos/Released)

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## Rantamplan

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Apuntar a la infraestructura civil no es una victoria. Tu mierda. ¿También Tayikistán es rico? y Kazajstán y sus países vecinos comprando Bayraktar. Mi punto sigue en pie.
> 
> No, no lo compramos. Porque los drones iraníes son una mierda.


A todos los que opinan de la guerra, desde el confort de su casa y sus sofas, alli tenian que estar, estos sabios de la geopolitica para opinar y odiar la guerra, que solo hace ricos, a los más ricos y traen la desgracia a los, pobres, las hijas de putin que vayan a la guerra, y la de todos los oligarcas rusos, americanos, europeos, indios, paquistanis


----------



## Viet

That makes sense.

The $300 billion seized Russia assets can be spent to repay damages Russia army caused in Ukraine.










EU Studies Use of Russian Central Bank Assets to Rebuild Ukraine


The European Union is studying the feasibility of using billions of euros worth of Russian central bank assets already frozen by member states to help with Ukraine’s reconstruction efforts, according to people familiar with the matter.




www.bloomberg.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588498281906044929

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> They have gone against and humiliated this from the saudis:
> 
> 
> Remote-controlled air/ground radio communications sites.
> 17 Lockheed Martin AN/FPS-117 long-range phased array, 3-dimensional air search radar.
> 6 Northrop-Grumman AN/TPS-43 portable 3-dimensional tactical air search radar.
> Raytheon Improved HAWK air defense missile system.
> Raytheon MIM-104 Patriot air defense missile system
> Oerlikon Contraves Skyguard 35mm Twin Cannon Short Range air defense system
> Lockheed Martin THAAD anti-ballistic missile defense system.
> 
> This is what happened to a US airbase where one would assume would have all the latest nato garbage?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 893080
> 
> 
> 
> Why werent the americans able to intercept a single one? Why js it that they hit their targets with pinpoint accuracy? Why is it the US stood down after openly threatning war if Iran attacked?
> 
> 
> And now we see german AD showing their uselessnes in ukraine.
> 
> Please tell me what wunderweapon is left? What isthis magic secret weapon nato has that its notsupplying the ukies with?
> 
> I suggest you stick to topics more in your wheelhouse. Such as :
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 893081
> 
> 
> 
> And keep in mind that you were still cavemen when Roman emperors like valerian, philip, julian the apostate were on their knees begging Iranian shahanshahs for their lives. Keep that jn mind before you talk down to Iran and ridicule Iranian achievements pastry man
> 
> 
> 
> Iran would anahilate the US 5th fleet , american bases in the middle east and any poor outposts they have in syria in about a week if the US fires a firecracker at Iranian territory
> 
> Iran has openly fired at american bases, captured american troops and shot down 500 million dollar us “stealth” drones , and indirectly slauthered 1000s of american troops in iraq without an american response. Its not because of their bighearts that they ate those.
> 
> Beaides nukes, the US conventional forces in the middle east region would get absolutely anahilated by Iran in a total war scenario. Iran doesnt even consider Israel a peer anymore. Once israel can handle a single irgc division in lebanon they can come challenge Iran.


Delusion is strong with this one 🤣


----------



## 925boy

Viet said:


> That makes sense.


Theft of sovereign assets makes sense? That follows what US govt has been doing for a while..smh.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hack-Hook said:


> intresting point about that bombing is that hezbollah show evident that Israel was observing the incident
> 
> 
> responsibility is by user not producer so they can complain to Russia


And the lead investigator had proof (cell tracking) linking hezbollah operatives to the bombing but what happened to him? Do you even know?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588535765985656833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588535772009074689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588535774865391618

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> that means you claim Lebanon government is a terrorist state
> some may say Israel and USA can't deal with Iran directly only by some desperate act of terror .
> 
> if you say so. then why each one or two week Ukraine call Iran about them, why there is no day passing by that they don't complain about it , why some English politician went to the extend to fabricate the narrative that Iran provide them to Russia is against the UN security council resolution 2231 (2015)
> 
> and how you explain this


LOL which is it did iran did or they did not send drones to Russia? Cause is so all it did is make the Ukrainian angrier and increasing more support from western power. This is textbook definition of irony. 

Also the real issue is not them able to turn the tide of war (kherson being surrendered by the Russian being one of them) is that they are being used to target civilians.



OldTwilight said:


> this is how USA,UK,Soviet won the WWII ... Genchize Khan tactics weren't honorable but those made him the winner of almost all of his wars ...
> 
> The honorable people in most wars , lose ...


You high boy?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588363672300277760


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

She's the Head of the Russian propaganda division RT btw. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588488292802220032


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588496353357094912

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> AFU, and UA govt media call this a feint.
> 
> North-East of Kherson, the advance is stalled while fields have turned to mud. There is only one proper road going north-east-south-west, and it's within reach of the last RU firebase deeper within territory controlled by them.
> 
> HiMARSes sent 18 rockets on it yesterday. We will see the results once the ground dries up.
> 
> RU-UK force ratio is still like 4 to 3, but with Ukraine having more heavy equipment, and Russians having more bodies in Khesanh, and towns surrounding it.


I don't know, it does not looks like a feint to me...

I mean, what's the point? It's not like AFU are outside Kherson right now, I mean hollowing out or pretend to hollow out Kherson does not do anything to the frontline. 

Also, a lot of Heavy equipment in Kherson has been withdrawn, but they were moving troop in, while the Russian can technically fight a mariupol style urban combat with AFU, but that wasn't really their style, and that would get more bloodied for the Russian real quick, I don't see any upside on trying to hold Kherson for as long as possible and get into a grinding battle with the Ukrainian, I mean for morale as low as the Russian, they can't really get into a grinding war which they will most likely lost. Because when, not if, that happened, that is the ball game for Russia.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> Iran would anahilate the US 5th fleet , american bases in the middle east and any poor outposts they have in syria in about a week if the US fires a firecracker at Iranian territory
> 
> Iran has openly fired at american bases, captured american troops and shot down 500 million dollar us “stealth” drones , and indirectly slauthered 1000s of american troops in iraq without an american response. Its not because of their bighearts that they ate those.
> 
> Beaides nukes, the US conventional forces in the middle east region would get absolutely anahilated by Iran in a total war scenario. Iran doesnt even consider Israel a peer anymore. Once israel can handle a single irgc division in lebanon they can come challenge Iran.



A relative of Yours?








Hack-Hook said:


> intresting point about that bombing is that hezbollah show evident that Israel was observing the incident
> 
> 
> responsibility is by user not producer so they can complain to Russia


Not for deliveries made after the war has started.

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588535765985656833
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588535772009074689
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588535774865391618


Warming costs nothing. What can Putin do? Israel is a military monster, plus nuclear.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine gets more money, more tanks.

$400 million from the new US weapons package 

90 T72 tanks from Netherlands and Czech.







Bild vergrößern
Ukrainische Soldaten bei einer militärischen Übung mit erbeuteten russischen T-72-Panzern

Foto: Aleksandr Shulman / dpa









Ukrainenews am Freitag: USA und Niederlande kaufen 90 T-72-Panzer für die ukrainische Armee


Das US-Verteidigungsministerium kündigt weitere Militärhilfen im Wert von 400 Millionen Dollar für Kiew an. Und: Der von Russland eingesetzte Statthalter hat in Cherson eine 24-stündige Ausgangssperre verhängt. Die News.




www.spiegel.de

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## jhungary

Well, add this to the chapter....

Even Ukrainian dog have more discipline than Russian troop....

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Not for deliveries made after the war has started.


so you agree USA and EU are responsible for Yemeni people who died in KSA bombing


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> I don't know, it does not looks like a feint to me...
> 
> I mean, what's the point? It's not like AFU are outside Kherson right now, I mean hollowing out or pretend to hollow out Kherson does not do anything to the frontline.
> 
> Also, a lot of Heavy equipment in Kherson has been withdrawn, but they were moving troop in, while the Russian can technically fight a mariupol style urban combat with AFU, but that wasn't really their style, and that would get more bloodied for the Russian real quick, I don't see any upside on trying to hold Kherson for as long as possible and get into a grinding battle with the Ukrainian, I mean for morale as low as the Russian, they can't really get into a grinding war which they will most likely lost. Because when, not if, that happened, that is the ball game for Russia.



Well, nobody on AFU side seem to be able to settle on the number of Russians in Kherson. Some deception is not impossible.

Russians could've been inflating their numbers.

At the time HiMARS first arrived, AFU gave a number of 11k, then 15k, then "at least 20k", and latest was 30k. That's not the number people believe Russians could've brought in, nor sustain under constant bombardment.

What I hear from a first party source, there is no way there are more than 10k of Russians in the field.

Thousands of them are staying in Kherson city itself, but hard to count, nor see if any of them then show up in the field, or whether they only stay in the city.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> 90 T72 tanks from Netherlands and Czech.


those tanks are belonging to Netherlands or are the Czech ones that Netherlands was refurbishing ? didn't knew Netherlands have any T-72


jhungary said:


> Well, add this to the chapter....
> 
> Even Ukrainian dog have more discipline than Russian troop....



it seems pretty much anything had more discipline than Russian soldiers , other wise Russia was not the biggest weapon provider for Ukraine


those aside thats what i don't like about keeping these animals for pets , they simply can't protect themselves if their owners for some reason fail to provide for them , cats are better on this regard but dogs specially the ones who raised from birth as pet are too dependent for their own good


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588585887402713088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588591024167071744

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588603049735761920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588545734336729088
Very sad indeed! This was preventable, but sadly the Ukrainian leaders chose a different route, and it is costing the Ukrainian people and the people of the Donbas enormous human suffering.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Well, nobody on AFU side seem to be able to settle on the number of Russians in Kherson. Some deception is not impossible.
> 
> Russians could've been inflating their numbers.
> 
> At the time HiMARS first arrived, AFU gave a number of 11k, then 15k, then "at least 20k", and latest was 30k. That's not the number people believe Russians could've brought in, nor sustain under constant bombardment.
> 
> What I hear from a first party source, there is no way there are more than 10k of Russians in the field.
> 
> Thousands of them are staying in Kherson city itself, but hard to count, nor see if any of them then show up in the field, or whether they only stay in the city.


well, number is another issue, but what I am saying is that I don't think Russia is doing this for a ruse....

Look at it this way, what can Russia achieve by feinting retreat, do they really hope Ukrainian would just waltz in and think they are all gone and then ambush them?? Otherwise, there are pretty much nothing a fake can pull. I mean, it's too far from the current frontline, you can't really redeploy troop to other side of the battle and it does not have any impact of all to the Ukrainian. 

Regardless of how well or lightly defended in Kherson or around the city, the Ukrainian already shown that they are proceed with caution, too caution as I said many time, so that wouldn't really do much even if Russia is faking a retreat. Because it's quite obvious the Ukrainian are going to systematically demolish the Russian line whether they were staffed. 

But does that mean Russia cannot do that? I mean, sure, that's their army and that's their maneuver


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588503225551888386

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## aziqbal

I am always very nervous when Russia says its withdrawing 

what your 6 Ukraine the Russians have a very long historical track record of withdrawing then comes Operation Uranus

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## Reashot Xigwin

I'm literally speechless right now... When you think the Russian military has no bottom we keep finding more. 

& yes this literally old Stalin's playbook. You don't have to tell me. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588449608560435200

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588571755198951426
New $400M package. The Netherlands will also refurbish another 45 T-72 tanks for a total of 90.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Where are the people who say Iranian-made drones are not effective? Well, it looks like that claim can't stand up to scrutiny. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588633316621975553


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588637004341747712

Reactions: Like Like:

1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588223193826967553

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588490665616637952


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588596984562462721


----------



## RescueRanger

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The russians upgraded their soldier lodging from Pig pens to cowshed.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587133800764407808
> Maybe that Hitler bloke wasn't wrong to call Russian Sub-human.


Future Russian troop lodgings:

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588639003351613440

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588486358288728064


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588213813731532801

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588485931967074304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588484145847873541

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588541107775807490


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588644584090763264
The Pentagon confirmed not a single HIMARS has been destroyed

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> well, number is another issue, but what I am saying is that I don't think Russia is doing this for a ruse....
> 
> Look at it this way, what can Russia achieve by feinting retreat, do they really hope Ukrainian would just waltz in and think they are all gone and then ambush them?? Otherwise, there are pretty much nothing a fake can pull. I mean, it's too far from the current frontline, you can't really redeploy troop to other side of the battle and it does not have any impact of all to the Ukrainian.
> 
> Regardless of how well or lightly defended in Kherson or around the city, the Ukrainian already shown that they are proceed with caution, too caution as I said many time, so that wouldn't really do much even if Russia is faking a retreat. Because it's quite obvious the Ukrainian are going to systematically demolish the Russian line whether they were staffed.
> 
> But does that mean Russia cannot do that? I mean, sure, that's their army and that's their maneuver



I mean exactly the opposite, that Russia been playing a game of musical chairs, and tried to inflate its troop number to deter Ukrainians from counterattacking. They had a lot of artillery at the start, and so far they relied almost solely on it to keep AFU at distance, not infantry.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588609674001018880

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I mean exactly the opposite, that Russia been playing a game of musical chairs, and tried to inflate its troop number to deter Ukrainians from counterattacking. They had a lot of artillery at the start, and so far they relied almost solely on it to keep AFU at distance, not infantry.


They don't have enough infantry for the job. 

I really doubt there are over 30,000 Russian troop in Kherson, there are no way they can supply that with 3 broken bridges. 

Also, words from the front line said Russian getting quite economical on artillery strike. Something is going on there.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588525997342986242


----------



## Viet

While Putin runs amok, at least on other side of planet China is reasonable. At the meeting with visiting Scholz communist chief Xi told a nuclear war, even a threat of nuclear is unacceptable.






Xi Jinping in der Osthalle der Großen Halle des Volkes in Peking © Kay Nietfeld/dpa

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> so you agree USA and EU are responsible for Yemeni people who died in KSA bombing


No, I agree that anyone that delivers weapons to Yemen during a conflict is no longer neutral. That includes Iran which shares equal responsibility with the US for supplying weapons. If Iran had not supplied weapons to Yemen, it is unlikely that anyone had been bombed.

The EU is not delivering weapons to anyone.
Specific countries within EU may have delivered weapons.

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## Soldier35

The Mi-24 helicopters delivered by the Czech Republic to Ukraine appeared on video. In the video, you can see how the Mi-24 helicopter of the Ukrainian Air Force launches unguided missiles in the pitch-up mode. The pitch-up mode allows you to attack with unguided missiles without entering the air defense coverage area. This method is used by Russian and Ukrainian aviation.






The commander of one of the Russian tanks participating in the battles in Ukraine is eighteen-year-old Daniel. Despite their young age, this crew already had three enemy tanks destroyed.






Russia is moving troops to the settlements between Brest and Malorita, this is in the west of Belarus. Directly to the south are the Ukrainian cities of Lutsk and Lvov. Officially, this is not commented on in any way, military analysts report that this is supposedly being done to block the western border of Ukraine and this should have been done at the very beginning. If Russian troops reach the city of Stryi in the Lviv region of Ukraine, it will be possible to block almost the entire border and limit the supply of weapons to Ukraine.






Russian Lancet drones hit the Buk-M1 air defense system of the Ukrainian army and the US-made 155-mm howitzer M-777.






A miniature homemade sapper robot was created by Russian craftsmen. The main purpose of the machine is the clearance of territories from mines of the PFM-1 Petal type. There are no technical details of the machine, it is known that the weight of the robot is about 250 kilograms and it is controlled remotely, as can be seen from the video, the robot is quite fast.


----------



## khansaheeb

Soldier35 said:


> The Mi-24 helicopters delivered by the Czech Republic to Ukraine appeared on video. In the video, you can see how the Mi-24 helicopter of the Ukrainian Air Force launches unguided missiles in the pitch-up mode. The pitch-up mode allows you to attack with unguided missiles without entering the air defense coverage area. This method is used by Russian and Ukrainian aviation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The commander of one of the Russian tanks participating in the battles in Ukraine is eighteen-year-old Daniel. Despite their young age, this crew already had three enemy tanks destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is moving troops to the settlements between Brest and Malorita, this is in the west of Belarus. Directly to the south are the Ukrainian cities of Lutsk and Lvov. Officially, this is not commented on in any way, military analysts report that this is supposedly being done to block the western border of Ukraine and this should have been done at the very beginning. If Russian troops reach the city of Stryi in the Lviv region of Ukraine, it will be possible to block almost the entire border and limit the supply of weapons to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Lancet drones hit the Buk-M1 air defense system of the Ukrainian army and the US-made 155-mm howitzer M-777.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A miniature homemade sapper robot was created by Russian craftsmen. The main purpose of the machine is the clearance of territories from mines of the PFM-1 Petal type. There are no technical details of the machine, it is known that the weight of the robot is about 250 kilograms and it is controlled remotely, as can be seen from the video, the robot is quite fast.


Too late now , Russian and Belarus forces will get decimated if they cross the border. Ukrainians are ready and waiting.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> They don't have enough infantry for the job.
> 
> I really doubt there are over 30,000 Russian troop in Kherson, there are no way they can supply that with 3 broken bridges.
> 
> Also, words from the front line said Russian getting quite economical on artillery strike. Something is going on there.


The Russians run low on ammo. They overused the ammo stocks during summer offensive. It seems the Russians have completed withdrawing the majority of the army group to the east river bench, they just let a small group of hardcore fighters behind. Those poor souls will fight at Cherson until the bitter end.


----------



## sammuel

jhungary said:


> They don't have enough infantry for the job.
> 
> I really doubt there are over 30,000 Russian troop in Kherson, there are no way they can supply that with 3 broken bridges.
> 
> Also, words from the front line said Russian getting quite economical on artillery strike. Something is going on there.



The statements Russia made for over a month now about " harsh decisions " that will have to be made in Kherson , don't make sense.

If they wanted to evacuate they would do so , not make statements. On the ground so far i saw zero evidence of withdrawal.

~


----------



## Viet

sammuel said:


> The statements Russia made for over a month now about " harsh decisions " that will have to be made in Kherson , don't make sense.
> 
> If they wanted to evacuate they would do so , not make statements. On the ground so far i saw zero evidence of withdrawal.
> 
> ~


Putin says he is ok with Kherson evacuation. I think it’s creditable. They can’t hold on forever without foods, waters, fuels, ammo. All bridges to Kherson are destroyed few remain are within the range of Ukraine artillery.
80,000 were evacuated (or deported), 170,000 are still trapped in the encirclement.


----------



## BHAN85

Viet said:


> While Putin runs amok, at least on other side of planet China is reasonable. At the meeting with visiting Scholz communist chief Xi told a nuclear war, even a threat of nuclear is unacceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xi Jinping in der Osthalle der Großen Halle des Volkes in Peking © Kay Nietfeld/dpa


Exactly he said "Xi said it should oppose the threat or use of nuclear weapons, advocate that nuclear weapons cannot be used and that nuclear wars must not be fought, and prevent a nuclear crisis in *Eurasia*."









Xi-Scholz meeting injects new momentum into China-Germany, China-EU ties, enhancing political trust - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn





i.e: A nuclear crisis in *Eurasia* is unacceptable for China. But in another continent (like America) is not China problem .

Well said.


----------



## Shawnee

With republicans coming to the house, time to sell Ukraine.

Trump and Republicans will be soft on Putin.









Why Now Is the Time for Russia and Ukraine to Talk


The withdrawal of Russian forces, Ukrainian neutrality, an end to economic sanctions and most importantly a cease fire and legitimate U.N.-monitored plebiscite are all negotiable, though you would hardly know it from the rhetoric of Russia or the West.




www.newsweek.com





In the end you will find a ruined Ukraine forced to cede lands and signs papers.

Major partisan views in US

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> Exactly he said "Xi said it should oppose the threat or use of nuclear weapons, advocate that nuclear weapons cannot be used and that nuclear wars must not be fought, and prevent a nuclear crisis in *Eurasia*."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xi-Scholz meeting injects new momentum into China-Germany, China-EU ties, enhancing political trust - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i.e: A nuclear crisis in *Eurasia* is unacceptable for China. But in another continent (like America) is not China problem .
> 
> Well said.


Yes thanks to comrade Xi’s helping hands Europe is safe. Maybe who knows, Putin will nuke africa.


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> The Russians run low on ammo. They overused the ammo stocks during summer offensive. It seems the Russians have completed withdrawing the majority of the army group to the east river bench, they just let a small group of hardcore fighters behind. Those poor souls will fight at Cherson until the bitter end.


This probably have to do with the logistic situation they have in the South. 

There aren't much getting thru to the frontline troop, it's not just a situation for artillery munition. Saw a video on Telegram on the Ukrainian run through a recently captured Russian position. They found a lot of household food and not that many MRE, suggesting even food weren't supply to the frontline and the Russian soldier have to scavenge for it. 

This is always bad...



sammuel said:


> The statements Russia made for over a month now about " harsh decisions " that will have to be made in Kherson , don't make sense.
> 
> If they wanted to evacuate they would do so , not make statements. On the ground so far i saw zero evidence of withdrawal.
> 
> ~


There are a lot of sign the Russian is pulling out, from evacuation to unmanned checkpoint and unmanned defences around strategic important target like flightline. The problem is not whether or not there is sign Russian is withdrawing, but whether or not this is not a ploy. That was the discussion here.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> No, I agree that anyone that delivers weapons to Yemen during a conflict is no longer neutral. That includes Iran which shares equal responsibility with the US for supplying weapons. If Iran had not supplied weapons to Yemen, it is unlikely that anyone had been bombed.
> 
> The EU is not delivering weapons to anyone.
> Specific countries within EU may have delivered weapons.


Iran start supplying weapons after the bombing started .
wonder how you forget that technicality


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> This probably have to do with the logistic situation they have in the South.
> 
> There aren't much getting thru to the frontline troop, it's not just a situation for artillery munition. Saw a video on Telegram on the Ukrainian run through a recently captured Russian position. They found a lot of household food and not that many MRE, suggesting even food weren't supply to the frontline and the Russian soldier have to scavenge for it.
> 
> This is always bad...
> 
> 
> There are a lot of sign the Russian is pulling out, from evacuation to unmanned checkpoint and unmanned defences around strategic important target like flightline. The problem is not whether or not there is sign Russian is withdrawing, but whether or not this is not a ploy. That was the discussion here.


The russians are desperate. Really desperate. This special ops is not going well. They should ask chinese for meals. Seriously. Otherwise they will run hungry and become more aggressive. Putin just signed a decree that allows the army deploys sex convicts and heavy criminals. Luckily he exempted child rapists. Those scums are not allowed to join the army.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588862500384100352

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## F-22Raptor

But despite the public’s fascinating with videos of Russian helicopters or missiles being struck down, Stringer focused more on the underperformance of Russia’s ISR aircraft, indicating that problems with prosecuting targets is one of the most significant aspects of the invasion thus far.

*“The transformation in US and NATO air power over the last five decades has no equivalent in the VKS [Russia’s air force], nor do the Russians have anything like the ISR led strike capabilities of NATO Air Forces, nor the targeting processes to exploit them,” he said.*

He added that multi-domain integration of NATO assets will “continue to underpin how we fight,” and suggested intelligence sharing by alliance members in support of Ukraine had reached an “unprecedented” level.

‘Within an hour of Putin’s forces crossing the [Ukrainian] border a planned deployment of multiple combat air patrols were sent to protect and assure NATO’s Eastern Flank,” said Stringer.









Russia's air campaign hampered by poor ISR based strikes and target processing: NATO official - Breaking Defense


Russia's attempt to secure air dominance in Ukraine has been wildly unsuccessful with troubles prosecuting ISR supported strikes forcing plans off track.




breakingdefense.com

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> But despite the public’s fascinating with videos of Russian helicopters or missiles being struck down, Stringer focused more on the underperformance of Russia’s ISR aircraft, indicating that problems with prosecuting targets is one of the most significant aspects of the invasion thus far.
> 
> *“The transformation in US and NATO air power over the last five decades has no equivalent in the VKS [Russia’s air force], nor do the Russians have anything like the ISR led strike capabilities of NATO Air Forces, nor the targeting processes to exploit them,” he said.*
> 
> He added that multi-domain integration of NATO assets will “continue to underpin how we fight,” and suggested intelligence sharing by alliance members in support of Ukraine had reached an “unprecedented” level.
> 
> ‘Within an hour of Putin’s forces crossing the [Ukrainian] border a planned deployment of multiple combat air patrols were sent to protect and assure NATO’s Eastern Flank,” said Stringer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's air campaign hampered by poor ISR based strikes and target processing: NATO official - Breaking Defense
> 
> 
> Russia's attempt to secure air dominance in Ukraine has been wildly unsuccessful with troubles prosecuting ISR supported strikes forcing plans off track.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> breakingdefense.com


so with all these technologies why cant NATO win a war?


----------



## _Nabil_

S300 trying to hit a flying landowner , seriously it's pathetic....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588838361099567104
The US is really helping its allies 😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588839371691954176

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## SIPRA

925boy said:


> so with all these technologies why cant NATO win a war?



NATO can win this war, if they directly jump in. But then this would no more remain a conventional war. So, under the circumstances, this war is highly in favor of Russia. I support Russia, because I am highly against this US-West nexus. They have caused incalculable damage to third-world countries. Pakistan is on verge of collapse, because of these Western devils.

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## Dariush the Great

SIPRA said:


> NATO can win this war, if they directly jump in. But then this would no more remain a conventional war. So, under the circumstances, this war is highly in favor of Russia. I support Russia, because I am highly against this US-West nexus. They have caused incalculable damage to third-world countries. Pakistan is on verge of collapse, because of these Western devils.


Western aid to Ukraine is only going to get increased, not decreased. Why you think Russia can keep up with this and gain the upperhand?

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## _Nabil_

Nato is virtually fighting in Ukrain


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588478706519277568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588475398538813440

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## 925boy

SIPRA said:


> NATO can win this war,


 not based on their record, so what is this based on?


SIPRA said:


> if they directly jump in.


they lost all the recent ones they jumped into, so i dont feel good about this, besides, what ammunition wil lthey fight with if their stocks are already depeted and they havent jumped in yet, which by then they would need ALOt more ammunition to maintain the war.


SIPRA said:


> But then this would no more remain a conventional war.


why? cuz NATo soldiers dont want to die quickly but want to kill others then run home and announce premature victory for wars they lost?


SIPRA said:


> So, under the circumstances, this war is highly in favor of Russia.


boom - time is on Russia's side- this also contradicts your point above earlir saying that NATO can win the war- how can NATO win the war if Russia is "highly favored" to win the war? cmon bro!


SIPRA said:


> I support Russia, because I am highly against this US-West nexus.


Ok G, we vibing now. we are standing for the side of truth- if NATO didnt pressure Ukraine to pick a side and become a proxy that was attached to Russia's vital national "organs", then there would have been no Ukraine war. Russia warned multiple times, especially during the 100K troops rapid deployment near Ukraine's border last April- that was NATO and Ukraine's warning that Ukraine was going to get diced and sliced - roll that b**** type baked and dismembered - now no one can stop it until the situation is back in balance.


SIPRA said:


> They have caused incalculable damage to third-world countries. Pakistan is on verge of collapse, because of these Western devils.


agreed.

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## SIPRA

Dariush the Great said:


> Western aid to Ukraine is only going to get increased, not decreased. Why you think Russia can keep up with this and gain the upperhand?



Cannot really argue for it, because of lack of knowledge in warfare and geopolitics. You can say, it is my gut feeling, arising out of what I have observed and read, since the start of war.


----------



## 925boy

Dariush the Great said:


> Western aid to Ukraine is only going to get increased, not decreased.


Actual aid to Ukraine from US and allies reducing- reality
aid to Ukraine is going to increase- hypothetical



Dariush the Great said:


> Why you think Russia can keep up with this and gain the upperhand?


because of few factors:
1. United country with a united mission
2. large dedicated population that can man the war
3. lots of money - wealthy at this time 
4. Expert of war- Russia has made mistakes, but Russia has the military experience and equipment and motivation to fight this hard war. Ukrainians on the other hand, will make us understand why we dont want to fight Russia again after this, NATO seems to have that fear already- they not ready to die in large numbers and not exit out quickly- dont you see we are now in a divided world of 1.2bn of western people vs 6bn+ of the developing world? US lost already b ro, just like Afghanistan and Iraq. US economic strength cant keep the war going for a win, simple...supplies from US have dwindled..hell US ammunition stocks are down at the moment, articles are out showing US cant increase weapons production quickly..
5. NATO is tired- hasnt won a war, and is still recovering from the loss in Afghanistan, they are still scared to fight all the tough nuts on their list - China, North Korea, Iran and Russia - lets talk fact, 0% BS. i'm ready today.

US has no money to fight another big war, Ukraine will bite US before Biden's reelection time ends.

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## SIPRA

925boy said:


> boom - time is on Russia's side- this also contradicts your point above earlir saying that NATO can win the war- how can NATO win the war if Russia is "highly favored" to win the war? cmon bro!



No contradiction. I am saying that 1) if major NATO countries, including US, jump in with their respective forces and all the available arms (with no restrain or limitation), and 2) war somehow remains conventional; then NATO can win this war. Not with the current arrangements. Under prevailing conditions, Russia has a clear upper hand.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> Iran start supplying weapons after the bombing started .
> wonder how you forget that technicality


Which is unimportant, even if it is true.
Then again it is a lie since bombings started in 2015 and it is shown that Iran shipped stuff to Yemen already in 2013 (a ship was captured).
Iran bears the responsibility for the war being fought in the first place.


----------



## F-22Raptor

The Russians aren’t even at the level of capability US forces possessed in Desert Storm. 

The Russians are 40+ years behind the US in ISR, targeting, and precision strike battle networks. It’s not even up for debate.

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## A.P. Richelieu

SIPRA said:


> NATO can win this war, if they directly jump in. But then this would no more remain a conventional war. So, under the circumstances, this war is highly in favor of Russia. I support Russia, because I am highly against this US-West nexus. They have caused incalculable damage to third-world countries. Pakistan is on verge of collapse, because of these Western devils.


Meanwhile South Korea prospers.
Probably because of work ethics and not blaming others for their own failings.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588843481195511808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588890087844368384

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Which is unimportant, even if it is true.
> Then again it is a lie since bombings started in 2015 and it is shown that Iran shipped stuff to Yemen already in 2013 (a ship was captured).
> Iran bears the responsibility for the war being fought in the first place.


was it for Yemen or Africa. you have forgotten that we sent many weapon to Afrika


----------



## thetutle

_Nabil_ said:


> The US is really helping its allies 😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588839371691954176



US is raising its interest rates to curb inflation. Thats why the US dollar is going up. Other countries aren't raising them as fast because its very hard for people holding debt.


----------



## thetutle

925boy said:


> not based on their record, so what is this based on?





925boy said:


> boom - time is on Russia's side- this also contradicts your point above earlir saying that NATO can win the war- how can NATO win the war if Russia is "highly favored" to win the war? cmon bro!



If you haven't noticed, NATO has been advancing east for 25 years now. It has gone from Italy to the border of russia. Estonia and soon Finland. In the future Ukraine. 

And its been doing this up until now without firing a shot. 

So I'd say there's a pretty good argument to say it will keep advancing.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> was it for Yemen or Africa. you have forgotten that we sent many weapon to Afrika


Yes, Iran is trying to get people killed in a large part of the world.

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## 925boy

SIPRA said:


> No contradiction. I am saying that 1) if major NATO countries, including US, jump in with their respective forces and all the available arms (with no restrain or limitation), and 2) war somehow remains conventional; then NATO can win this war. Not with the current arrangements. Under prevailing conditions, Russia has a clear upper hand.


So lemme translate what you've just said, which i agree with -- NATO is down for war, until its time for war. agreed! they've already invested lives, $80-$100bn of their money and debt, ammunition from their national stocks....why wouldnt they just jump in now?I guess they are more afraid of Russia turning their cities into rouble, no pun intended,- who ever is more afraid, is the loser and deterred in military conflict.



thetutle said:


> If you haven't noticed, NATO has been advancing east for 25 years now. It has gone from Italy to the border of russia. Estonia and soon Finland. In the future Ukraine.
> 
> And its been doing this up until now without firing a shot.
> 
> So I'd say there's a pretty good argument to say it will keep advancing.


but it isnt advancing in countries that have a strategic benefit v is-a-vis Russia like Ukraine. Russia was already ok with these countries joining NATO ,because you and i know that no matter how many members NATO adds. it still loses every war, so please keep quiet about NATO adding more and more members- that also already implies that NATO ISNT ENOUGH without more members, because why add more members if you already have US in it and its already a large block ALREADY? you dont need more members, NATO needs more balls. cheers.



thetutle said:


> US is raising its interest rates to curb inflation. Thats why the US dollar is going up. Other countries aren't raising them as fast because its very hard for people holding debt.


but ever since Russia's Rouble got pegged to gold, the dollar has been yelling "WE DONT WANT NO SMOOOKEEE"...go look at hte stats, dollar isnt doing well against Rouble, shows that US sanctiosn are really toothless these days, especially if a country make smart counteracting economic moves, like Russia did with Gold.

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## thetutle

925boy said:


> Russia was already ok with these countries joining NATO ,because you and i know that no matter how many members NATO adds. it still loses every war, so please keep quiet about NATO adding more and more members- that also already implies that NATO ISNT ENOUGH without more members, because why add more members if you already have US in it and its already a large block ALREADY? you dont need more members, NATO needs more balls. cheers.



Russia occupied those countries. And now its lost them. This is huge loss and humiliation and strategic blunder. US troops in Poland and Romania. And now in Ukraine. but covertly. This is a disaster for Russia. NATO is also good for US as it allows them to sell their weapons to these same states that russia used to control. 



925boy said:


> but ever since Russia's Rouble got pegged to gold, the dollar has been yelling "WE DONT WANT NO SMOOOKEEE"...go look at hte stats, dollar isnt doing well against Rouble, shows that US sanctiosn are really toothless these days, especially if a country make smart counteracting economic moves, like Russia did with Gold.


Russia has handled sanctions quite well. So far. They will inevitably hurt russia pretty bad. But russia is more resilient than anyone thought economically.


----------



## Viet

_Nabil_ said:


> Nato is virtually fighting in Ukrain
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588478706519277568
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588475398538813440


Another fake news
Ok
40 percent support Russia invasion.
40 percent want the return of Adolf Hitler.


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588639003351613440


And now in NATO hands !

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## Reashot Xigwin

"Russia will win" said the subhuman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588842812086239233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588642624067743744

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## Reashot Xigwin

Trolling US Navy style


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587909259404218369

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## Reashot Xigwin

More funny from the Ruski


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588338735187636224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588920875981897728

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## Paul2

Russian firebase in Chaikyne is no more, but they still have lots of scattered fires on the sub-regimental level.

In Russian pre-2008 military doctrine, artillery was split into 5 tiers:

battalion - mortars, and field guns
regiment - 122mm, grad
division - everything 152mm, and bigger. Rest of rocket artillery.
corps - same as division, but with more heavy rocket artillery, and TBMs. Nuclear weapons are also supposed to be corps level.
GHQ reserve - nuclear weapons, more 8 inch, and 240mm

From what I read, only 3 levels remained operational after 2008 reform (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Russian_military_reform). GHQ reserve was disbanded, and corps level been split down to division level. It's strange why they still kept standalone artillery units with pea-shooters (field guns, and mortars), when Russian mechanised BTGs had own 152mm, and heavy rocket artillery from the start.

Most of Russian standalone artillery units in Kherson (and much elsewhere too) been destroyed, but their scattered remains were given to regimental, and sub-regimental units.

So now, Russians have lots of smaller artillery units with bigger guns scattered across larger territory. That's closer to current Ukrainian artillery unit organisation actually.

The new Russian doctrine totally backfired on them early in the war. Blobs of undefended 12-18 SPHes 10 kilometres from frontlines were jackpots for AFU.

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588843481195511808
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588890087844368384


Regarding this:






Do they mean HIMARS d estroyed in the field or HIMARS destroyed in the storage facilitiy? Russia must've destroyed some HIMARS in storage across Ukraine.. HIMARS cant save Ukraine in this war.

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> Russia has handled sanctions quite well. So far. They will inevitably hurt russia pretty bad. But russia is more resilient than anyone thought economically.



About sanctions, I see people can't seem to distinguish in between economic sanctions vs. sanctions against RU military, vs. sanctions against government.

Saying that sanctions aren't working because Russians aren't eating grass yet ignores the fact that US haven't really went after food, or basic livelihood items.

But for example, Russia has not a single bearings factory, let alone high speed/high temperature ones. They have to smuggle them all now, and they really struggle there.

Yes, USA saying that they will destroy Russian economy by depriving Russians of Iphones is of course dumb. You can live without Iphones, but you can't without bearings...

You can probably live without microchips, or you can try smuggling them, but you can't smuggle millions of high performance beatings, when there are less than 10 high performance bearings makers in the world. You go straight to iron age.

Besides bearings, there is similar situation with rubber, and elastomers. While Russia has tons of oil to make them, all the chemical technology feeding the industry world-wide is Western, or Japanese.

The US have not yet went for the jugular, because such obvious things like manganese, or copper products, lack of which would be a complete economic fatality for Russia, are still left untouched.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yes, Iran is trying to get people killed in a large part of the world.


learned from the best. so you admit that 2013 shipment was for Africa not Yemen and we supplied weapon to Yemen after the bombing


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588920875981897728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588932906487275521


----------



## Viet

The endkampf at Kherson

Will be the last major battle.






Bild vergrößern
Ukrainische Artilleristen feuern mit einer M777-Haubitze: »Wir haben präzisere Waffen und treffen mehr als sie«

Foto: Gleb Garanich / REUTERS


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## Reashot Xigwin

925boy said:


> Regarding this:
> View attachment 893757
> 
> 
> Do they mean HIMARS d estroyed in the field or HIMARS destroyed in the storage facilitiy? Russia must've destroyed some HIMARS in storage across Ukraine.. HIMARS cant save Ukraine in this war.



If you stupid enough to believe the Russian then you don't deserve to even have a brain. 

:
The destruction of Ukrainian replicas may partly account for Russia’s unusually boastful battle damage assessments on Western artillery, particularly the U.S.-made High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS.

“They’ve claimed to have hit more HIMARS than we have even sent,” one U.S. diplomat observed.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/30/ukraine-russia-himars-decoy-artillery/

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> but ever since Russia's Rouble got pegged to gold, the dollar has been yelling "WE DONT WANT NO SMOOOKEEE"...go look at hte stats, dollar isnt doing well against Rouble, shows that US sanctiosn are really toothless these days, especially if a country make smart counteracting economic moves, like Russia did with Gold.


Russia hasnt pegged the ruble to gold. The central bank announced it would buy gold at 5.000 ruble per gram back in march when the price was 6.000 ruble per gram. It was suspended in late april. Have a look at this chart showing the price of gold in Russia:




So basically your whole argument is wrong.

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## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> Russia hasnt pegged the ruble to gold. The central bank announced it would buy gold at 5.000 ruble per gram back in march when the price was 6.000 ruble per gram. It was suspended in late april. Have a look at this chart showing the price of gold in Russia:
> View attachment 893793
> 
> So basically your whole argument is wrong.


I compared the rouble to US dollars, now you're changed the argument to reflect gold prices in ROuble, that was not my argument, leave me alone, troll or argue my actual point. My point still stands! try again

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> I compared the rouble to US dollars, now you're changed the argument to reflect gold prices in ROuble, that was not my argument, leave me alone, troll or argue my actual point. My point still stands! try again


Your argument was based on the claim that russia pegged the ruble to gold. That is not true.
The ruble exchange rate is not determined by the free market, but driven by account inflows and required currency exchanges. Basically no money leaves Russia, besides what Putin and his minions are robbing from the country.

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## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> Your argument was based on the claim that russia pegged the ruble to gold. That is not true.
> The ruble exchange rate is not determined by the free market, but driven by account inflows and required currency exchanges. Basically no money leaves Russia, besides what Putin and his minions are robbing from the country.


If this is true, then why hasnt the dollar risen against the Rouble since Feb/March 2022? basically since start of the war the USD hasnt gained its former exchange rate against the Rouble- can you explain why? EVEN AFTER the Rouble decoupled from Gold in April as you say, The USD still cant get to its old rate against the Ruble, because the USD is another manipulated currency backed by what White American man tells us its worth:

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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> not based on their record, so what is this based on?
> 
> they lost all the recent ones they jumped into, so i dont feel good about this, besides, what ammunition wil lthey fight with if their stocks are already depeted and they havent jumped in yet, which by then they would need ALOt more ammunition to maintain the war.
> 
> why? cuz NATo soldiers dont want to die quickly but want to kill others then run home and announce premature victory for wars they lost?
> 
> boom - time is on Russia's side- this also contradicts your point above earlir saying that NATO can win the war- how can NATO win the war if Russia is "highly favored" to win the war? cmon bro!
> 
> Ok G, we vibing now. we are standing for the side of truth- if NATO didnt pressure Ukraine to pick a side and become a proxy that was attached to Russia's vital national "organs", then there would have been no Ukraine war. Russia warned multiple times, especially during the 100K troops rapid deployment near Ukraine's border last April- that was NATO and Ukraine's warning that Ukraine was going to get diced and sliced - roll that b**** type baked and dismembered - now no one can stop it until the situation is back in balance.
> 
> agreed.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587401575663804416
russia is fighting nato? Please.
Russia is fighting nato hand me downs and old stocks. 

Nato is not “recovering” from afghanistan seeing how they lost only a handfull (tens) of infantry in the last years there…and never lost a battle. 

keep living in denial. Your posts are comedy gold.

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Your argument was based on the claim that russia pegged the ruble to gold. That is not true.
> The ruble exchange rate is not determined by the free market, but driven by account inflows and required currency exchanges. Basically no money leaves Russia, besides what Putin and his minions are robbing from the country.


The first sign you should not have talked to him is when he talked about Rouble pegged to gold and then go and talk about how US dollars to Gold remain unchanged and how US dollars never gain its exchange rate back with Rouble pre-war. 

You should have stopped talking to him once you see that because that mean he know absolutely nothing on financial and currency exchange, 

Russia tried to get as much gold as possible and started pegging their currency on gold, but they found out pretty soon the people aren't selling to them. That won't work lol.



ZeGerman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587401575663804416
> russia is fighting nato? Please.
> Russia is fighting nato hand me downs and old stocks.
> 
> Nato is not “recovering” from afghanistan seeing how they lost only a handfull (tens) of infantry in the last years there…and never lost a battle.
> 
> keep living in denial. Your posts are comedy gold.


Don't forget that's the same dude who said a couple of month ago "NATO is to chicken shit to get directly involved in this war" and now he is claiming "Russia is fighting NATO" 

I mean, you can't claim one and then the other, either NATO is too chicken shit to fight Russia or NATO IS fighting Russia. Take your pick man, and yes, indeed that's some comedy gold right here.

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## _Nabil_

Feeling really sorry for the Germans, after President Slapped, PM slapped, now it's the turn of parliamentarians....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588914403571007488

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588986741654179840

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## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> The first sign you should not have talked to him is when he talked about Rouble pegged to gold and then go and talk about how US dollars to Gold remain unchanged and how US dollars never gain its exchange rate back with Rouble pre-war.
> 
> You should have stopped talking to him once you see that because that mean he know absolutely nothing on financial and currency exchange,
> 
> Russia tried to get as much gold as possible and started pegging their currency on gold, but they found out pretty soon the people aren't selling to them. That won't work lol.
> 
> 
> Don't forget that's the same dude who said a couple of month ago "NATO is to chicken shit to get directly involved in this war" and now he is claiming "Russia is fighting NATO"
> 
> I mean, you can't claim one and then the other, either NATO is too chicken shit to fight Russia or NATO IS fighting Russia. Take your pick man, and yes, indeed that's some comedy gold right here.e


Just keep posting photos of those thousands of bradleys and abrams in the nevarra desert. 
Or the air fleet.


Russia showed its far from a near peer adversary. Nato air power would decimate it.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588984389941497856


----------



## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> The US have not yet went for the jugular, because such obvious things like manganese, or copper products, lack of which would be a complete economic fatality for Russia, are still left untouched.



Well, I just read this: https://www.business-humanrights.or...opper-molybdenum-mine-suspends-its-operation/

US went after Russian 8 gigaton per year Copper-Molybdenum mine in Armenia. Russian domestic production is only 2 gigaton per year, vs. 100 gigatons in China.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588919290430132225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588905873073901568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589011768755781633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588906012865544193


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588901408618995713

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> If this is true, then why hasnt the dollar risen against the Rouble since Feb/March 2022? basically since start of the war the USD hasnt gained its former exchange rate against the Rouble- can you explain why? EVEN AFTER the Rouble decoupled from Gold in April as you say, The USD still cant get to its old rate against the Ruble, because the USD is another manipulated currency backed by what White American man tells us its worth:
> View attachment 893800


The volume of rubles traded have fallen to 1/3, high prices for exports, shrinking imports and requirements to convert export revenues into ruble is the reason for the current exchange rates. The exchange rate doesnt reflect Russias fundamentals. Its a result of the ruble being isolated.

Russias main exports (and revenues) are traded in dollars. Do you think a strong ruble is a win for Russia, when having to convert the dollars to ruble in order to pay wages and pensions?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588988610904494080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588872652604682241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588872666693660672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588855594307694592

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## Paul2

MeFishToo said:


> Russias main exports (and revenues) are traded in dollars. Do you think a strong ruble is a win for Russia, when having to convert the dollars to ruble in order to pay wages and pensions?



They do not export manufactured goods.

Export of resources for a country with near zero consumer goods production is pretty much a barter.

Wages, and pensions? I don't think they care much if Russian pension is $160-$170 per month. https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/334789-pensioner-russia-money-receive . Even doubling, or tripling it, and it will still be below just $500.

That matters not if the only thing they can use their own currency is food, and everything else is dependent on their FX income


----------



## MeFishToo

Paul2 said:


> They do not export manufactured goods.
> 
> Export of resources for a country with near zero consumer goods production is pretty much a barter.
> 
> Wages, and pensions? I don't think they care much if Russian pension is $160-$170 per month. https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/334789-pensioner-russia-money-receive . Even doubling, or tripling it, and it will still be below just $500.
> 
> That matters not if the only thing they can use their own currency is food, and everything else is dependent on their FX income


Its just an example showing the exchange rate being a problem for Russia when its main exports are traded in dollars and this revenue has to be converted to rubles.


----------



## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> I compared the rouble to US dollars, now you're changed the argument to reflect gold prices in ROuble, that was not my argument, leave me alone, troll or argue my actual point. My point still stands! try again


I spoke about this in the last thread, you can’t even trade the rouble hence the artificially inflated value. The rouble is junk just like the Russian economy. You know many member states have abandoned the mir payment system?



MeFishToo said:


> Your argument was based on the claim that russia pegged the ruble to gold. That is not true.
> The ruble exchange rate is not determined by the free market, but driven by account inflows and required currency exchanges. Basically no money leaves Russia, besides what Putin and his minions are robbing from the country.


This is exactly correct 👍🏿


----------



## 925boy

RoadAmerica said:


> I spoke about this in the last thread,


that means nothing here.


RoadAmerica said:


> you can’t even trade the rouble hence the artificially inflated value.


then why cant the USD go back to dominating it strongly like it did before the war started? what changed? prove your hype via economic facts, not theories. just cuz you said so doesnt mean its true.


RoadAmerica said:


> The rouble is junk just like the Russian economy.


junk based on what? your opinion? actually the USD is the junk- US threw its strongest sanctions at Russia and Russian economy didnt collapse, now i must admit, it might be China propping up Russia a bit by buying its products and commodities in large quantities, but Russia made smart moves that prevented mass economic damage, thats what hte facts say, i dunno which NATO propaganda media you read, newsweek, time, cnn,yahoo, reuters are all biased against Russia, so they spread lots of false information on the war


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589030571812204545

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

RoadAmerica said:


> I spoke about this in the last thread, you can’t even trade the rouble hence the artificially inflated value. The rouble is junk just like the Russian economy. You know many member states have abandoned the mir payment system?


My Russian GF claims she is able to get money out of russia at quiet good exchange rates. Almost Spot rates, using a Chinese payment system, to get it into an asian bank account she has opened. 

I dont know if its true, since she is woman and a russian I dont believe a darn thing she says. 

Can you actually transfer money from a russian account into an asian one using some Chinese system if anyone knows?


----------



## The SC




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588970685975891968

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588990050070454273

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1 | Sad Sad:
1


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## MeFishToo

thetutle said:


> My Russian GF claims she is able to get money out of russia at quiet good exchange rates. Almost Spot rates, using a Chinese payment system, to get it into an asian bank account she has opened.
> 
> I dont know if its true, since she is woman and a russian I dont believe a darn thing she says.
> 
> Can you actually transfer money from a russian account into an asian one using some Chinese system if anyone knows?


Why not? Russians are allowed to transfer cash amounts up to $10.000. If she can find a bank that doesnt worry about secundary sanctions.


----------



## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> that means nothing here.
> 
> then why cant the USD go back to dominating it strongly like it did before the war started? what changed? prove your hype via economic facts, not theories. just cuz you said so doesnt mean its true.
> 
> junk based on what? your opinion? actually the USD is the junk- US threw its strongest sanctions at Russia and Russian economy didnt collapse, now i must admit, it might be China propping up Russia a bit by buying its products and commodities in large quantities, but Russia made smart moves that prevented mass economic damage, thats what hte facts say, i dunno which NATO propaganda media you read, newsweek, time, cnn,yahoo, reuters are all biased against Russia, so they spread lots of false information on the war


Why does it matter what the exhange rate of the ruble and dollar is, or any other currency for that matter? Nobody outside Russia wants to buy rubles. Nobody knows the value of the ruble because authorities stopped publishing data - makes you wonder who is actually the one spreading false information on the war?

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> My Russian GF claims she is able to get money out of russia at quiet good exchange rates. Almost Spot rates, using a Chinese payment system, to get it into an asian bank account she has opened.
> 
> I dont know if its true, since she is woman and a russian I dont believe a darn thing she says.
> 
> Can you actually transfer money from a russian account into an asian one using some Chinese system if anyone knows?


you can spend your money in your Russian account using MIR or Visa/Master in China, Turkey or used to be Finland (Seems like it has stopped) and withdraw cash from the ATM, and then use said cash (in local denomination) and put it in your local currency account (If you are in Turkey, you will be getting Lira at an ATM and putting it back in your Turkish account for example) As long as the country did not sanction Russian payment system.

However, that would mean you will lose a significant part of your money via interest rate, because that's the same as using your MIR, Visa and Master Card for cash advances, which mean you are looking at about 18%-22% interest rate if you do it that way. And that also subject to the daily maximum allowed on the ATM system, mostly below $1000.

You can do that since day 1 of the sanction. A lot of my Russian friend did that when they escape Russia.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> you can spend your money in your Russian account using MIR or Visa/Master in China, Turkey or used to be Finland (Seems like it has stopped) and withdraw cash from the ATM, and then use said cash (in local denomination) and put it in your local currency account (If you are in Turkey, you will be getting Lira at an ATM and putting it back in your Turkish account for example) As long as the country did not sanction Russian payment system.
> 
> However, that would mean you will lose a significant part of your money via interest rate, because that's the same as using your MIR, Visa and Master Card for cash advances, which mean you are looking at about 18%-22% interest rate if you do it that way. And that also subject to the daily maximum allowed on the ATM system, mostly below $1000.
> 
> You can do that since day 1 of the sanction. A lot of my Russian friend did that when they escape Russia.


I see, so you can use union pay to transfer it into bank account int hails for example? I dont see why it would be a cash advance on credit card, since you are not using credit. your are transferring your own money. And going straight from one account into another.

But yeah, the sanctions are having little effect on those that can use internet and online banking. 

The exchange rate is good, but what is uncertain is the price russia is paying to maintain it.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I see, so you can use union pay to transfer it into bank account int hails for example? I dont see why it would be a cash advance on credit card, since you are not using credit. your are transferring your own money. And going straight from one account into another.
> 
> But yeah, the sanctions are having little effect on those that can use internet and online banking.
> 
> The exchange rate is good, but what is uncertain is the price russia is paying to maintain it.


No. You can't do Union Pay, it gone thru SWIFT with some account (Not all Russian bank are on Union Pay system)

It is cash advance for Visa and Master because that's how their card operate with oversea banks. Not sure about MIR, but I know for a fact Visa and Master card with Russian account can still be used within Russia like before, but it has stopped functioning to bank that sanction Russian payment system, which mean it is NOT Visa/Master card ends, it is the bank. And bank treat your overseas Visa/Master card an advance because they can't take the money out immediately from your original bank accounts. It's the same everywhere, not just in Russia, say if I use my Westpac Bank Master Debit card and used them in the US on a Bank of America ATM, even I am accessing my own money in Westpac, BoA, who are going to honor that amount to me, is not going to take those money from my Westpac immediately after I have withdrawn from BoA ATM, which is why they do it as an cash advance, not normal regular transaction.

Problem with sanction is where you are, if you are in EU, and you have a Russian bank account, you can't do any of that, because EU system completely blocked off Russian payment system, you can't take money out of your bank account, you can't put money in your bank account. I mean, if you are in a country that is not applying the sanction, then yes, it does not affect you that much, however, you still pay a hefty fee on both transaction (It charge you to use Visa/Master card on an overseas bank), interest rate and exchange rate because ATM withdraw will not ever give you the best rate. You lose money there. And you can't do anything greater than the ATM allow you to. with the fee alone, you are getting 80c every dollar you take out. Then comes the conversion rate.

Bear in mind, sanction in place is so that Russian company cannot settle their transaction with USD or Western Payment System, and you can't do this ATM trick when you are a company looking to settle $10,000 or more, so if you are a company selling to overseas buyer and you need to move money so that you can continue your business, you will have a serious problem at hand, even if you are dealing with non-sanction entity, the sanction is not there to hit every day Russian citizens.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

"*Iran is poised to emerge from the Russia-Ukraine war as a much more dangerous adversary, analysts and national security insiders warn, as its military drone program is transforming into a lethal “terror weapon” that could eventually challenge some of the world’s most advanced defensive systems.*

For the regime in Tehran, Russia’s growing reliance on Iranian-made drones for its fall aerial campaign in Ukraine carries a host of benefits, including the deepening of diplomatic and military ties between the two countries at a time when Iran is increasingly isolated from the West.

*But specialists say there’s a more troubling motivation, one that could carry very real ramifications for the national security of the U.S. and its allies, including Israel. Russia’s battlefield use of Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones and other craft is giving Tehran real-time information on how its unmanned systems perform in a combat zone, which defensive systems they’re able to defeat, and what their biggest weaknesses appear to be. That knowledge will guide Iran’s effort to refine its drones, making them even more effective and deadly in the future*." 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588907891116847104

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588990050070454273



What can I say? Welcome to Ukranistan, Lol.

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## Oldman1

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588862500384100352
> View attachment 893620


Russia is fighting the Jewish Gay LGBT Satanist Nazi...to be continued...



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588603049735761920
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588545734336729088
> Very sad indeed! This was preventable, but sadly the Ukrainian leaders chose a different route, and it is costing the Ukrainian people and the people of the Donbas enormous human suffering.


Should see the Russian side. And not all bodies recovered. And we are only 8 months of war and they already surpassed Afghan-Soviet casualties of 10 years long time ago. 








jhungary said:


> There are a lot of sign the Russian is pulling out, from evacuation to unmanned checkpoint and unmanned defences around strategic important target like flightline. The problem is not whether or not there is sign Russian is withdrawing, but whether or not this is not a ploy. That was the discussion here.


Wonder if they would fire massive barrage on Kherson City when Ukrainian troops go in? They already taking every valuable item and equipment including fire trucks and toilets. Guess the best thing for the Ukrainians to do is avoid going into the city and concentrate on hitting Russian artillery waiting on the other side of the river from east and south to push them afar from Kherson City. Could send in Ukrainian special forces in civilian disguise to connect with the partisans in the city at night or something.

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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> What can I say? Welcome to Ukranistan, Lol.


Nah, not even close to Afghanistan. They lived primitively in Afghanistan, and in Ukraine, you have around 14 hours to 48 hours without electricity. Those thing aren't going down permanently. 

Plus, civilian in Ukraine can leave anytime they wanted. Poland and Romania border is still opened to them, for the people in Ukraine, a hot meal and a heated shelter is only a 15-hour bus ride or 25 hours train ride away. Unlike in Afghanistan, those people are really stuck with nobody opening their border to any of them.

Those Ukrainian who are not forced to stay (ie, not male between 18-60) choose to stay because they wanted to, they can leave anytime they wanted, but they choose to stay.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> You knew my position, if it was up to me, I would rather level Kherson and rebuild it after the Ukrainian kick the Russian out. Instead of playing long game. This is a perfect bottle neck situation. They are stuck in Kherson, and they can't move them all out since there are no bridge. You can only feedback in piecemeal.
> 
> But again, seems like AFU high command do not want that to happen. They choose to play the waiting game...



Just like not doing massive attacks on Donetsk City. Even with all the Russian propaganda.


jhungary said:


> The problem the Russia had is they didn't go all the way to Mykolaiv, that's a natural buffer point where instead of now which the Russia has around 200km front in Kherson, if the Russian took Mykolaiv, that would have been 2 crossing point between North and West instead of a continuous frontline.
> 
> They really should have stopped the Eastern advance and reposition troop to the south because Kherson is the major anchoring point of the entire line, without Kherson, the entire Kherson Oblast will fall, and without Kherson Oblast, Russian troop in Zaporizhya Oblast will be out flanked, it will be the same situation with Kherson half a year or 9 months down the road, then Zaporizhya will fall, and whether or not Russia can retain control in Donetsk and Luhansk will then be a serious question.


Be hard for Ukrainians to cross the river to flank and hit the Russian troops in new trenches. However, the Russians are pretty much in static defense and can be hit by artillery and missile strikes, etc. Keep the Russian forces busy instead of somewhere else.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Wonder if they would fire massive barrage on Kherson City when Ukrainian troops go in? They already taking every valuable item and equipment including fire trucks and toilets. Guess the best thing for the Ukrainians to do is avoid going into the city and concentrate on hitting Russian artillery waiting on the other side of the river from east and south to push them afar from Kherson City. Could send in Ukrainian special forces in civilian disguise to connect with the partisans in the city at night or something.


As I explained, it would not work, Ukrainian is not going to take Russia word for it and willy-nilly waltz into Kherson believing them to be gone, they would do the whole work to security the city. That including moving their own Artillery and HIMARS into range and keep those Russian Arty outside theirs. 

It takes them 2 days to get to Kupiansk after Russian vacated that place and 1 day after Russian vacating Bucha. That already show they will proceed with caution if and when they try to retake Kherson.



Oldman1 said:


> Just like not doing massive attacks on Donetsk City. Even with all the Russian propaganda.



Well, it's their land, so I sort of understand why they want to play the long game, the trade off is, playing the long game means majority of those Russian troop are going to be able to escape and fight another day. 




Oldman1 said:


> Be hard for Ukrainians to cross the river to flank and hit the Russian troops in new trenches. However, the Russians are pretty much in static defense and can be hit by artillery and missile strikes, etc. Keep the Russian forces busy instead of somewhere else.


Thing is, Russian didn't even bother to do defensive fortification once they took a city, that's why the September offensive is so successful because I think (I cannot say for sure) the Russia think this wouldn't happened to them, and they do without digging trenches or set up defensive fortification. 

And the one they did set up is soddy at best. laughable is the term I would use. 

Analysts believe if only Russian spend some time improving their position during the Summer after they captured those land, it would not be easy for Ukrainian to make progress, but then they probably have learnt a lesson by now, they are doing some serious groundwork in the East behind Svatove near Starbolisk, on the other hand, how effective is that is remained to be seen.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Thing is, Russian didn't even bother to do defensive fortification once they took a city, that's why the September offensive is so successful because I think (I cannot say for sure) the Russia think this wouldn't happened to them, and they do without digging trenches or set up defensive fortification.
> 
> And the one they did set up is soddy at best. laughable is the term I would use.
> 
> Analysts believe if only Russian spend some time improving their position during the Summer after they captured those land, it would not be easy for Ukrainian to make progress, but then they probably have learnt a lesson by now, they are doing some serious groundwork in the East behind Svatove near Starbolisk, on the other hand, how effective is that is remained to be seen.


They brought in those concrete pill boxes as well, whether its better against modern anti tank missiles and artillery and missiles with pin point accuracy, who knows. I think the Ukrainians can even use the PGK on the artillery shells since they are accurate but cheaper than the Excalibur.

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## sammuel

Oldman1 said:


> I think the Ukrainians can even use the PGK on the artillery shells since they are accurate but cheaper than the Excalibur.




Some quick info ( for those like me , who had to look this up ) :


155 mm artillery projectile , at max range , will have half of it's round land within 267 meters , of their intended target.

With PGK ( Precision Guidance Kit ), they would hit within 50 m of the target at any range.

The Excalibur , effectively hit within 6 m of a target.

As for costs :

PGK costs about $10,000 , Excalibur - 100,000$ .

So you can say it the Excalibur is 10 times more accurate , but also costs 10 times more.



~

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> The Excalibur , effectively hit within 6 m of a target.
> 
> As for costs :
> 
> PGK costs about $10,000 , Excalibur - 100,000$ .
> 
> So you can say it the Excalibur is 10 times more accurate , but also costs 10 times more.


Its probably worth using if you know you will take oner soldier out.

it would cost 1 Billion to kill 10,000 enemy soldiers. Not a bad return on investment.

The price nato is paying to kill Russians in Ukraine right now is about 40,000 dead at the cost of $40 Billion to nato.

Alternatively, you could probably pay each russian $50,000 to desert.

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## BHAN85

thetutle said:


> Its probably worth using if you know you will take oner soldier out.
> 
> it would cost 1 Billion to kill 10,000 enemy soldiers. Not a bad return on investment.
> 
> The price nato is paying to kill Russians in Ukraine right now is about 40,000 dead at the cost of $40 Billion to nato.
> 
> Alternatively, you could probably pay each russian $50,000 to desert.



If you use old weapons and near to expire, then the real cost is less.

Anyway if you numbers are right, then it's 10k by soldier.

The West is flooded by immigrants of whole world to use them as cheap labor force, it would be better giving Russian desertors free flight tickets to the West.

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## thetutle




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## Reashot Xigwin

The beating will continue until morale improves


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588932239043461123

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> learned from the best. so you admit that 2013 shipment was for Africa not Yemen and we supplied weapon to Yemen after the bombing


Nope, you did not learn from the best.
You are simply trying to gain power and influence from shipping weapons.
The conclusion was that the 2013 shipment was for Yemen.


----------



## Soldier35

Roosian military personnel captured an EDM4S-UA anti-drone gun at Ukrainian positions. Earlier, Ukraine received Israeli hand-held UAV suppression systems of the EDM4S-UA type in the Ukrainian modification from the Lithuanian company NT Service. The EDM4S complex is based on a copy of the German G36 rifle. The exact characteristics of the complex have not been published. It is known that it is equipped with 4 directional antennas with a power of 10 watts. With a weight of 5.5 kg. EDM4S suppresses commercial drones at ranges up to 3-5 kilometers for 35 minutes. The EDM4S cost $15,000.






Footage of the explosion on the mine barrier of the BMP-1 of the Ukrainian army and the death of the assault group following it. When properly mined in this way, the mines are located on boards or carts and stretched out in front of the enemy. But in the battles in Ukraine, no one does this and they simply lay rows of mines on the road, as in this case. The driver of an armored vehicle does not always notice these mines, in this case it is strange that an assault group was walking next to the car and she also did not notice these mines.






Footage of Russian 122-mm D-30 howitzers hitting a column of armored vehicles of the Ukrainian army. The column was discovered on the march with the help of a UAV, after which the airborne troops worked out artillery at the given coordinates. About 5 armored vehicles were reportedly destroyed, after which the column dispersed.






Russian mobile crew 120-mm mortar 2S12 spoke about their combat work in Ukraine. The servicemen use the Ural-4320 truck to move around. Mortar 2S12 "Sani" was put into service in 1981, the minimum range of the mortar: 480 meters, the maximum range: 7100 meters.






A Ukrainian tanker who was captured on October 19 spoke about the state of the Macedonian T-72 tanks transferred to the Ukrainian army. Earlier, Macedonia handed over about 30 T-72 tanks to the Ukrainian army.


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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> Can you actually transfer money from a russian account into an asian one using some Chinese system if anyone knows?



I would be darn surprised if not a single Chinese bank took the risk at free money.

It's trivial for example to find bankers who will help you to bypass the $50k per year FX purchase limit in China.

---------

I did some research. Chinese banks do not service Russian Union Pay transactions..., _BUT THEY NEVER DID_. The union pay international don't work with PBOC. It works with independent clearing houses in their countries.

So, when they said that Chinese banks dropped Russian Union Pay users, that only means they barred a rare case of Russian banks servicing their transactions by having correspondent accounts with Chinese banks which did UP for them.

The Union Pay network is still operational for Russian banks, with that single exception above.

And if they have CNY accounts, it means they 99% have to work with a Chinese clearing house.


----------



## zectech

BHAN85 said:


> Exactly he said "Xi said it should oppose the threat or use of nuclear weapons, advocate that nuclear weapons cannot be used and that nuclear wars must not be fought, and prevent a nuclear crisis in *Eurasia*."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xi-Scholz meeting injects new momentum into China-Germany, China-EU ties, enhancing political trust - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i.e: A nuclear crisis in *Eurasia* is unacceptable for China. But in another continent (like America) is not China problem .



That is double speak. Putin is preparing to blame Ukraine and NATO for use of nuclear weapons, same as Putinites blamed NATO for the pipeline destruction.

Also, China already has a policy on nuking Europe. China supports Russia nuking Europe. And would blame NATO whitey for getting nuked if the blame is pinned on Trump buddy/Xi buddy Putin.

*China warns of ‘unimaginable consequences’ if nuclear power is forced into a corner *
Beijing's vice foreign minister blames NATO for stoking the instability that led to the Russia-Ukraine conflict



https://www.rt.com/news/552317-china-nato-russia-consequences-unimaginable/



China has 100% of their chips in for Putin and Trump destroying Europe. And would blame the EU for defending themselves from a Trump/Putin plot.

China supports the Tucker Carlson narrative. And wants those Europeans that opposed Trump destroyed.

Trump and Putin have the same goals and mission to destroy the EU. Destroy it with Putin supported Brexit, destroy it with Putin supported migrant crisis from Africa, destroy it with Putin supported disintegration of not only the European Union - also of nations in Europe. Finally this Putin War, backed by Trump to destroy Europe and finish Europe off. And China supports Putin and Trump to destroy Europe.


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> those tanks are belonging to Netherlands or are the Czech ones that Netherlands was refurbishing ? didn't knew Netherlands have any T-72
> 
> 
> it seems pretty much anything had more discipline than Russian soldiers , other wise Russia was not the biggest weapon provider for Ukraine
> 
> 
> those aside thats what i don't like about keeping these animals for pets , they simply can't protect themselves if their owners for some reason fail to provide for them , cats are better on this regard but dogs specially the ones who raised from birth as pet are too dependent for their own good


Minor correction
The 90x upgraded T72B come from Czech. Those surplus tanks come from the industry, not from the army.
US and Netherlands pay 90 million USD.
Beginning of delivery in december, completed next year.





__





Tschechien liefert 90 Kampfpanzer an die Ukraine – USA und Niederlande bezahlen


Die drei NATO-Partner Tschechien, USA und Niederlande wollen die ukrainischen Streitkräfte bei ihrem Kampf gegen Russland weiter unterstützen und dazu 90 modernisierte Kampfpanzer des Typs T-72B liefern.




esut.de


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## zectech

Russian asset Snowden and Russian asset Assange attack Democrats over Republican issues and crimes. The Republicans are the party of the cia and military. Democrats the party of the state department, fbi and beltway. The war on terror crimes are neo-con crimes, for these wars are neo-con PNAC wars. Trump is a PNAC neo-con that wants to shift focus from solely wars in the middle east to war on China, EU and Iran.

For reference, Trump wants a purge of the beltway to Trump loyalists:

Jonathan Swan: Trump Already Preparing to Purge DOJ, FBI, and Pentagon to Install Loyalists in 2025​


Jonathan Swan: Trump Already Preparing to Purge DOJ, FBI, and Pentagon to Install Loyalists in 2025



The Pentagon is Republican, except it is war on terror republicans, not war on NATO for the Russia Republican agenda. The Pentagon, for being pro-NATO, is wanted to be purged to promote Putinites into the brass in the pentagon that want to abandon Germany and EU to Russian invasion.

Did Snowden and Assange try to take down Trump with exposing Trump corruption after Trump corruption. No we had to get that info from Whitney Webb.






Assange was too busy going after Hillary for emails. A coincidence that Assange and Snowden rarely touch Republicans and go after Obama, Clinton and Democratic corruption. This is why Trump was considering to pardon Assange, because Assange is a Republican/Russian asset, same as Putin was trying to sway voters to vote Republican, not Democrat. This is why these are welcome in Russia because both are Republican assets, hounded by the "Democratic-leaning fbi and justice dept".

The entire pro-Putin alt media and alt celebrities are carefully orchestrated by the Pompeo cia and Russia Republican Deepstate of Barr and other PNAC Bushites.

The plan is the replacement of the USA with a Russian style state, with Trump as the chief engineer, backed by Russia Republicans, Pompeo/cia, and Bush fellow travelers. Goal is to abandon EU NATO to Putin. And have war with Iran and China.

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## A.P. Richelieu



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## Viet

A speech of Shoigu before military commanders

He reads entirely from the paper.
Repeating the shit we have heard 100x elsewhere. Why it is now necessary to open a second front in Belarus.

Like a robot

Putin has successfully degraded him to a brainless stooge.

The commanders look shocked.

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## ZeGerman

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Nope, you did not learn from the best.
> You are simply trying to gain power and influence from shipping weapons.
> The conclusion was that the 2013 shipment was for Yemen.


Also he is blind how Iran has sunk to the worst (and further then that) of what certain western countries have done. 

“but america did it too!!!” Is not the best justification considering it is their “big satan”…..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589177203920494592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589175705216028672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589191646792806401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589183716676734976

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## MeFishToo

Soldier35 said:


> Footage of Russian 122-mm D-30 howitzers hitting a column of armored vehicles of the Ukrainian army. The column was discovered on the march with the help of a UAV, after which the airborne troops worked out artillery at the given coordinates. About 5 armored vehicles were reportedly destroyed, after which the column dispersed.


I dont believe this is an artillery strike. Looks more like ATGM and maybe a mine.


----------



## Viet

The US army headquarters in Wiesbaden/ Germany for Europe and Africa as the new center for Ukraine war effort

From here all weapons and other assistances will be coordinated and poured to Ukraine.

Including a new arms package with 40 ships and 1,100 ghost drones “phoenix”.

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## BHAN85

zectech said:


> That is double speak. Putin is preparing to blame Ukraine and NATO for use of nuclear weapons, same as Putinites blamed NATO for the pipeline destruction.
> 
> Also, China already has a policy on nuking Europe. China supports Russia nuking Europe. And would blame NATO whitey for getting nuked if the blame is pinned on Trump buddy/Xi buddy Putin.
> 
> *China warns of ‘unimaginable consequences’ if nuclear power is forced into a corner *
> Beijing's vice foreign minister blames NATO for stoking the instability that led to the Russia-Ukraine conflict
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/552317-china-nato-russia-consequences-unimaginable/
> 
> 
> 
> China has 100% of their chips in for Putin and Trump destroying Europe. And would blame the EU for defending themselves from a Trump/Putin plot.
> 
> China supports the Tucker Carlson narrative. And wants those Europeans that opposed Trump destroyed.
> 
> Trump and Putin have the same goals and mission to destroy the EU. Destroy it with Putin supported Brexit, destroy it with Putin supported migrant crisis from Africa, destroy it with Putin supported disintegration of not only the European Union - also of nations in Europe. Finally this Putin War, backed by Trump to destroy Europe and finish Europe off. And China supports Putin and Trump to destroy Europe.



As a script of a Hollywood movie is not bad.

In real world, China give a shit about Russia.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589234258581032960


----------



## Vergennes

cannon fodder are revolting all across russia


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589212753637806081
Nothing can go wrong i guess

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## beast89

PakFactor said:


> What can I say? Welcome to Ukranistan, Lol.


typical Vassal state of USA


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589253590903713792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589259964169981952

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589248695325044736

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## 1ndy

Hack-Hook said:


> shame on USA ,United Kingdom, Germany , Sweden , France those countries help less than anybody while having well advanced military industry and have more than rest .
> if they have given as much as Poland gave , right now Ukraine army was fighting at Kamchatka
> 
> come on that much is twice Iran budget , for military and its not even for one year just half a year . its mind bugling , how ineffective Ukraine use that much resource that Russia is still inside Ukraine .
> i think its time NATO , for example Poland army take over Ukraine army and beat Russia out of Ukraine , for compensation and sacrifice Poland is making in that war then Ukraine can give them LVIV and area around it








It was a thing of pride when you all were part of one group.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589256366660943873

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## Viet

925boy said:


> Theft of sovereign assets makes sense? That follows what US govt has been doing for a while..smh.


The Russians cause damage. EU seize Moscow’s money to pay for the repair. Nothing to complain. Like in real life, you think you damage my car and can get away with that? No way my friend.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589246896597774344


----------



## RoadAmerica

925boy said:


> that means nothing here.
> 
> then why cant the USD go back to dominating it strongly like it did before the war started? what changed? prove your hype via economic facts, not theories. just cuz you said so doesnt mean its true.
> 
> junk based on what? your opinion? actually the USD is the junk- US threw its strongest sanctions at Russia and Russian economy didnt collapse, now i must admit, it might be China propping up Russia a bit by buying its products and commodities in large quantities, but Russia made smart moves that prevented mass economic damage, thats what hte facts say, i dunno which NATO propaganda media you read, newsweek, time, cnn,yahoo, reuters are all biased against Russia, so they spread lots of false information on the war


Go take a basic economics class, I don’t have time to teach someone that doesn’t have a basic understanding. I’ve already said you can’t trade the rouble hence it’s artificial value. Plus Russian companies have been forced to convert 25% (if my memory serves me correct) of their foreign currency into roubles hence propping up the currency further. 
Over 600 pages ago I spoke about watching joe blogs on YouTube he goes into great detail.
Of course you won’t do this and will simply claim I’m wrong 🙄

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## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> Why does it matter what the exhange rate of the ruble and dollar is


No, YOU should tell me why it doesnt matter. because exchange rates matter, period, so if exchange rates matter in teh world, which they do, then the RUB USD exchange rate also matters- its always been a global indicator of US vs Russian economic strength and positions- why say it doesnt matter now? because you cant explain why USD is doing bad? you're tyrying to duck the point here, try again.


MeFishToo said:


> , or any other currency for that matter?


it explains the economic strengths of 2 countries at any given time- dont call it irrelevant when its been relevant this whole time ok?


MeFishToo said:


> Nobody outside Russia wants to buy rubles.


thats a lie- Chinese and Indian banks are setting up Ruble based accounts in their countries, so just ask or read on google if you are ignorant. Also, even if nobody "wants" the ruble outside Russia, thats a besides-the-point from its value- it holds real value, because it isnt worthless,it actually won awards this year for the best performing currency- dont tell me you didnt see that? why would it win awards and perform well this year but you say different? you're the liar and biased person here.


MeFishToo said:


> Nobody knows the value of the ruble because authorities stopped publishing data


but its value is real and in the real world- your fake manipulated dollar ran from the Ruble once it got close to Gold, Russia has been dedollarizing for a while now, and that was why US sanctions on Russia were blunted and actually backfired on US, good example is oil- if you know the US economy, you know high gas prices = low or slow economic growth, but US created high gas prices by sanctioning Russia, a large oil producer, so US essentially hurt its own economy. are you understanding me now?


MeFishToo said:


> - makes you wonder who is actually the one spreading false information on the war?


The West- stop projecting- when i look at reuters, newsweek, time, AP, Yahoo news, they all parrot all the lies being told about Russia in the war.

Why hasnt Ukraine gained an inch of land for over a month now??


----------



## RoadAmerica

thetutle said:


> My Russian GF claims she is able to get money out of russia at quiet good exchange rates. Almost Spot rates, using a Chinese payment system, to get it into an asian bank account she has opened.
> 
> I dont know if its true, since she is woman and a russian I dont believe a darn thing she says.
> 
> Can you actually transfer money from a russian account into an asian one using some Chinese system if anyone knows?


After some research I will eat my words, you are able to trade it however very limited and not on many platforms.
I also was incorrect on the forced foreign currency exchange, it was not 25% but 80%….
Ouch


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589258351573336064
Seems like the so much hyped pavlivka offensive ended in a disaster,even the russians recognize it.

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## zartosht

Russia is cheaply draining ukie AD assets while simultaneously dismantling vital infrastructure right before winter

Still no viable solution for nato. Perhaps they need to start taking advice from the resident fangirls here. @jhungary and pastryman 🥮 seem to have figured it out where nato generals and experts have failed so far

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## SIPRA

zartosht said:


> Perhaps they need to start taking advice from the resident fangirls here. @jhungary and pastryman 🥮 seem to have figured it out where nato generals and experts have failed so far



There are many on this PDF, but, unfortunately, NATO is not paying due attention and heed to their analyses and advices. 😛😛😛

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589259964169981952

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## MeFishToo

zartosht said:


> Russia is cheaply draining ukie AD assets while simultaneously dismantling vital infrastructure right before winter
> 
> Still no viable solution for nato. Perhaps they need to start taking advice from the resident fangirls here. @jhungary and pastryman 🥮 seem to have figured it out where nato generals and experts have failed so far


Are you implying NATO and Iran are at war in Ukraine? If not, it must be Ukraine looking for a solution to stop these attacks on civilian infrastructure by Russia.
I think Ukraine should seek or be given the means to retaliate, and let Russia know they have the intention to do so.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589300375583981569

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## The SC




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## jhungary

zartosht said:


> Russia is cheaply draining ukie AD assets while simultaneously dismantling vital infrastructure right before winter
> 
> Still no viable solution for nato. Perhaps they need to start taking advice from the resident fangirls here. @jhungary and pastryman 🥮 seem to have figured it out where nato generals and experts have failed so far


I wonder exactly how stupid were you??

You do know if it come to worse for the Ukrainian and Ukrainian cannot endure the "Harsh" winter anymore, they can do something call "*Leave*" for 4 months, A nice and warm accommodation with hot food and hot shower is just 15 hours bus ride pay for by the government, away in Poland. And last I heard Polish government *WELCOME ALL* Refugee in Ukraine. no one will be turn around. It's not like they had no choice but to stay and endure this "Harsh" winter, I mean, there are already 10 million people left temporary. It's not like it's something they would not, or could not do.

*On the other hand, was that really that "Harsh"?? *

I mean, how hard can it be if we have guys like this in Ukraine still making YouTube Video.






I probably wouldn't be able to even turn on my computer if I am that starved and that cold and I do not have hot water or shower. Let alone finding hour of his time sitting in front of a computer making a video.

Last I heard, it's Russia who losing ground, and losing ground fast, and last I heard is just yesterday. 

Only idiots will think it will hurt Ukrainian morale, so are you, sir, is an idiot??

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## Hack-Hook

1ndy said:


> View attachment 894101
> 
> 
> It was a thing of pride when you all were part of one group.


wonder what it had to do with my post ? it even don't show what it belong to


----------



## Ali_Baba

Dozens of mobilised Russian troops brawl in the street after getting drunk on vodka because 'they face doom' at Ukraine frontline​








Dozens of mobilised Russian troops drunkenly brawl as 'they face doom'


A video shows dozens of 'drunk' Russian mobilised troops in a brawl in Omsk, in the latest case of major indiscipline among Vladimir Putin's draftees set to go to war in Ukraine.




www.dailymail.co.uk






>> The Vodka party continues in mother russia ....

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> Seems like the so much hyped pavlivka offensive ended in a disaster,even the russians recognize it.



Russia had an uprising on a ship in Vladvivostok March, when ship crews refused to go to Ukraine, and fight as foot soldiers.

These units belong to Russian Pacific Fleet.


----------



## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Dozens of mobilised Russian troops brawl in the street after getting drunk on vodka because 'they face doom' at Ukraine frontline​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dozens of mobilised Russian troops drunkenly brawl as 'they face doom'
> 
> 
> A video shows dozens of 'drunk' Russian mobilised troops in a brawl in Omsk, in the latest case of major indiscipline among Vladimir Putin's draftees set to go to war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> The Vodka party continues in mother russia ....


What they can expect? a quick dead is good for bunch of rapists.









Russia is giving soldiers Viagra to rape Ukrainians: UN official


Pramila Patten, UN special representative on sexual violence in conflict, said that Ukrainian women as testifying to being raped by Russian soldiers.




nypost.com







Valdimir Putin addresses a rally and a concert marking the annexation of four regions of Ukraine on Sept. 30.AFP via Getty Images


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Any Idea what sort weapon is that?
its definitely not MRSI as the shells are impacting at different times. 
cant tell if its artillery launched submunition that disperses in the air at its final stage or air dropped cluster bombs for destroying armor or personnel.
it does remind me of American air burst submunition used to destroy Irani armor during both gulf wars. but this has too many flares


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## Primus

Irfan Baloch said:


> Any Idea what sort weapon is that?
> its definitely not MRSI as the shells are impacting at different times.
> cant tell if its artillery launched submunition that disperses in the air at its final stage or air dropped cluster bombs for destroying armor or personnel.
> it does remind me of American air burst submunition used to destroy Irani armor during both gulf wars. but this has too many flares


Incendiary munition used by Russia

Close up can be seen here






Also didn't know you had a YouTube channel


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## beast89

https://****/s/TrackAMerc tracks foreign mercs and nazis fighting, documents war crimes by such units too.


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## The SC

A clip of an apparently wounded Russian soldier being bombed by Ukrainian drones
The Russian soldier found the solution, as soon as the bomb fell, he threw it away from him
Two farther and the third fell away from him


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## Irfan Baloch

Primus said:


> Incendiary munition used by Russia
> 
> Close up can be seen here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also didn't know you had a YouTube channel


I only post very rarely if comparing something or cant share from my drive. 
yes it incendiary definitely as it was beyond the flares. probably phosphorus based but I wonder if its air dropped or rocket artillery? I saw something similar but in Iraq war used by American jets against Iraqi armor but that caused black plumes as the bomb discharged submunitions that that home on to individual target units on the ground.

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## Primus

Irfan Baloch said:


> I only post very rarely if comparing something or cant share from my drive.
> yes it incendiary definitely as it was beyond the flares. probably phosphorus based but I wonder if its air dropped or rocket artillery? I saw something similar but in Iraq war used by American jets against Iraqi armor but that caused black plumes as the bomb discharged submunitions that that home on to individual target units on the ground.


Incendiary rounds are fired from Artillery guns. 

Also cool to know you have a YouTube. 118 subs ain't bad either. Nice


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589366811216482304


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589356379864977409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589347700147097600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589323251637182465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589304417882615809


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## Paul2

Irfan Baloch said:


> Any Idea what sort weapon is that?
> its definitely not MRSI as the shells are impacting at different times.
> cant tell if its artillery launched submunition that disperses in the air at its final stage or air dropped cluster bombs for destroying armor or personnel.
> it does remind me of American air burst submunition used to destroy Irani armor during both gulf wars. but this has too many flares



300mm rockets

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## thetutle

The SC said:


> A clip of an apparently wounded Russian soldier being bombed by Ukrainian drones
> The Russian soldier found the solution, as soon as the bomb fell, he threw it away from him
> Two farther and the third fell away from him


Im not sure how legal it is to drop too many bombs on this guy who is wounded and without a weapon.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589387090634018817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589387096904433664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589387102763905026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589387106010689537
Looks like the approaching winter and the lack of enough oil and gas in EU worry the West, and they want the negotiation with Russia to start quickly.

The skyrocketing prices in all commodities and industries shutting down are other factors driving West's urgent requests for talks.

German Chancellor's visit to China was another effort to get Chinese leaders' support to get Russia to agree to new talks. 

The whole "warnings about the use of nuclear weapons" is a gimmick. The West sees Ukraine as losing the war after Russia's freshly mobilized troops join the winter in the winter, and they're panicking to find a way to save face. The West is desperate for talks.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589210016396943360

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## Abid123

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Attacks on Iran by a nation in a conflict started by Iran is not terrorism, it is self-defense.


You are a genius. So Russia can now attack Sweden because you supplied Ukraine with weapons? We all know that Russia could make a toast out of your people and country if it ever got to that point.


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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> Im not sure how legal it is to drop too many bombs on this guy who is wounded and without a weapon.



Russians bombed hospitals, and UA medevacs countless times. Fair game

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## Oldman1

thetutle said:


> Im not sure how legal it is to drop too many bombs on this guy who is wounded and without a weapon.


He can come back and be armed again with a weapon. He's not surrendering.



jhungary said:


> I wonder exactly how stupid were you??
> 
> You do know if it come to worse for the Ukrainian and Ukrainian cannot endure the "Harsh" winter anymore, they can do something call "*Leave*" for 4 months, A nice and warm accommodation with hot food and hot shower is just 15 hours bus ride pay for by the government, away in Poland. And last I heard Polish government *WELCOME ALL* Refugee in Ukraine. no one will be turn around. It's not like they had no choice but to stay and endure this "Harsh" winter, I mean, there are already 10 million people left temporary. It's not like it's something they would not, or could not do.
> 
> 
> 
> Last I heard, it's Russia who losing ground, and losing ground fast, and last I heard is just yesterday.
> 
> Only idiots will think it will hurt Ukrainian morale, so are you, sir, is an idiot??


I suspect for the Russians that will have a harsh reality during the winter. Which makes me wonder if the evacuation in Kherson City and claims of Ukrainians will blow up the dam is a way to get the civilians out and put troops into the homes while winter is coming especially for the newly mobilize with lack of winter gear and equipment. Would make more sense.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Abid123 said:


> You are a genius. So Russia can now attack Sweden because you supplied Ukraine with weapons? We all know that Russia could make a toast out of your people and country if it ever got to that point.


Russia does not care if a war is legal or not so it is not an interesting point.
Considering that most of NATO has promised support in the case of an attack, it is unlikely that Russia tries. Even without NATO. Russia appears to lack the logistics to execute an amphibious invasion. If Russia would be fighting a legal war, it could legally attack any state which, like Sweden, choose not to be neutral.
A final point is that International Law does not change just because part of it is inconvenient to Sweden.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> I suspect for the Russians that will have a harsh reality during the winter. Which makes me wonder if the evacuation in Kherson City and claims of Ukrainians will blow up the dam is a way to get the civilians out and put troops into the homes while winter is coming especially for the newly mobilize with lack of winter gear and equipment. Would make more sense.


Well, the Russian can simply expel anyone in those home in Kherson and move into their quarter (which some report suggesting it already happened) they don't need to do all those move in order to move into people's quarter. It is widely believe that this is done so they can blame the Ukrainian when they take down the dam when they leave. 

On the other hand, it wouldn't do much for the Russian to actually move into people's home, it is increasing likely Ukraine will take Nova Kakhovka before winter set in, which mean the Russian is going to have to do without water or at least electricity in Kherson anyway. They are going to face a harsh winter in Kherson, with or without living in people's home.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Im not sure how legal it is to drop too many bombs on this guy who is wounded and without a weapon.


International Law only cover soldier that had surrendered. Once you become a POW, you are protected by the Geneva convention. Any hostile action toward POW is strictly forbidden.

Interestingly, First Geneva Convention only covered wounded and sick soldier treatment on your own side, because once you turn over that wounded soldier (it's also strictly forbidden to do so unless in exceptional circumstance), that soldier would become a POW of the other party. Then Third Geneva Convention applies. 





__





Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (I) on Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field,1949






ihl-databases.icrc.org








__





Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (III) on Prisoners of War, 1949






ihl-databases.icrc.org





What so interesting is, First Geneva Convention protect that wounded soldier from being murdered and tortured by his own side, while Third Geneva Convention protect that soldier who upon becoming a POW, from being torture and murdered by the enemy.

Seeing that guy is still in Russian dugout, he is fair game by the Ukrainian until he surrendered (eg waving a white flag) to the Ukrainian and become POW. Because before he became a POW, the Geneva convention does not applies to the Ukrainian. On the other hand, if the Russian shoot that guy when he was in a Russian dug out, then Russia is actually violating the first Geneva convention....

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## TruthHurtz

Oldman1 said:


> I suspect for the Russians that will have a harsh reality during the winter. Which makes me wonder if the evacuation in Kherson City and claims of Ukrainians will blow up the dam is a way to get the civilians out and put troops into the homes while winter is coming especially for the newly mobilize with lack of winter gear and equipment. Would make more sense.


Are you that high on copium that you believe Russia isn't prepared for the winter? I mean when was the last time they did that, fight in the winter?! Even *if* they lacked modern winter gear, they could simply draw upon millions of winter kits from Soviet stockpiles. Those bided them through all those Russian winters.

On one hand, wiping out Ukraine's power infrastructure will do nothing. But absolutely, Russians will totally collapse in the winter because they don't have warm clothes. Wishcasting delirium ad nauseam. Russia is evacuating Kherson and getting dug in because they're anticipating a large scale counteroffensive. Do you want civilians to stay behind and get caught in the crossfire? Or massacred for being "traitors" like the Ukrainians have stated on their Telegrams? 


jhungary said:


> You do know if it come to worse for the Ukrainian and Ukrainian cannot endure the "Harsh" winter anymore, they can do something call "*Leave*" for 4 months, A nice and warm accommodation with hot food and hot shower is just 15 hours bus ride pay for by the government, away in Poland. And last I heard Polish government *WELCOME ALL* Refugee in Ukraine. no one will be turn around. It's not like they had no choice but to stay and endure this "Harsh" winter, I mean, there are already 10 million people left temporary. It's not like it's something they would not, or could not do.


Does the EU even have accommodation for 10 million people for 4 months? Poland is literally burning garbage to stay warm and you believe they and the rest of Europe have all this spare capacity? Stop handwaving the very real consequences of destroying Ukraine's energy infrastructure, it's the backbone of every civilisation. This is a massive logistical problem for Ukraine and NATO which will sap morale and require significant resources that maybe don't even exist to alleviate.

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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia does not care if a war is legal or not so it is not an interesting point.
> Considering that most of NATO has promised support in the case of an attack, it is unlikely that Russia tries. Even without NATO. Russia appears to lack the logistics to execute an amphibious invasion. If Russia would be fighting a legal war, it could legally attack any state which, like Sweden, choose not to be neutral.
> A final point is that International Law does not change just because part of it is inconvenient to Sweden.



Russia just work around all international laws about war saying that what they do is not a war, it's a *"*special military operation*"*.







It's like when USA launched "preemptive strike" against Iraq.
USA doesnt launch "first strikes", USA launchs "preemptive strikes" 

Russia doesnt start "war", Russia start "special military operation" in a foreign country .

I think both are a pair of criminals evil clowns countries.


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## jhungary

TruthHurtz said:


> Does the EU even have accommodation for 10 million people for 4 months? Poland is literally burning garbage to stay warm and you believe they and the rest of Europe have all this spare capacity? Stop handwaving the very real consequences of destroying Ukraine's energy infrastructure, it's the backbone of every civilisation. This is a massive logistical problem for Ukraine and NATO which will sap morale and require significant resources that maybe don't even exist to alleviate.


Dude, where do you think the 10 million people that *HAD ALREADY* left Ukraine is living? On the street?

It's the entire EU that help the Ukrainian refugee which have settlement scheme reach as far as United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. They don't just all stay in Poland you know.

You have to be stupid or naive or both to think EU and the Collective west cannot accept the entirety of Ukrainian civilian population for 4 months. When they already done that for 10 millions Ukrainian refugee (that's 1/4 of the ENTIRE Ukrainian population by the way) for 8 months already.

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## Goritoes

So Once again... Has Russia Surrendered yet ?


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## jhungary

Goritoes said:


> So Once again... Has Russia Surrendered yet ?


Well, not yet, but I would probably thinking about it if I am a Russian soldier in Kherson. 

I would not want to be a Russian soldier in Kherson for the next 3 months.

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## Goritoes

jhungary said:


> Well, not yet, but I would probably thinking about it if I am a Russian soldier in Kherson.
> 
> I would not want to be a Russian soldier in Kherson for the next 3 months.


As long as they are fighting, I remember reading through the first thread lots of posters here were confident that Russians will surrender within weeks, but here we are.

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## jhungary

Goritoes said:


> As long as they are fighting, I remember reading through the first thread lots of posters here were confident that Russians will surrender within weeks, but here we are.


Well, the Russian is hanging on by basically sending untrained troop to replace the people they lost. The problem Russian facing from day 1 is manpower. Which they don't really have enough people to start a 4-front war. And that lost a lot of their experience ground troop. Which is what they still can't recover from 8 months into this war.

As I said, the situation in Kherson is a mess for the Russian, the only reason why they still hold Kherson is because Ukraine is probably under a strict order not to advance into the city and destroy the city with a street-to-street fight. Ukrainian already had troop within 30km border with Kherson, if they want to pull a Russia and bomb Kherson into rubble and then fight thru the rubble they could. It seems like tho, Ukraine wants to starve the Russian in Kherson to buckle, which is why they keep targeting the rear of Russian supply line in Kherson. 

I don't know which is worse, defend a city that you are not particularly welcome there and died there, or get starve or frozen to death on the frontline just to prove a point by your superior that they are holding on the city by day.


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## TruthHurtz

jhungary said:


> Dude, where do you think the 10 million people that *HAD ALREADY* left Ukraine is living? On the street?
> 
> It's the entire EU that help the Ukrainian refugee which have settlement scheme reach as far as United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. They don't just all stay in Poland you know.
> 
> You have to be stupid or naive or both to think EU and the Collective west cannot accept the entirety of Ukrainian civilian population for 4 months. When they already done that for 10 millions Ukrainian refugee (that's 1/4 of the ENTIRE Ukrainian population by the way) for 8 months already.


It's 7.6 million, you think housing an additional 10 million for *at least* 4 months is some trivial logistical task that won't strain resources? You think Soviet-era transformers and electrical substations are easy to replace within that timespan? I actually think you would have to be stupid or naïve to think refugees would return to a stone age country in the spring.

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## TruthHurtz

jhungary said:


> Well, the Russian is hanging on by basically sending untrained troop to replace the people they lost. The problem Russian facing from day 1 is manpower. Which they don't really have enough people to start a 4-front war. And that lost a lot of their experience ground troop. Which is what they still can't recover from 8 months into this war.
> 
> As I said, the situation in Kherson is a mess for the Russian, the only reason why they still hold Kherson is because Ukraine is probably under a strict order not to advance into the city and destroy the city with a street-to-street fight. Ukrainian already had troop within 30km border with Kherson, if they want to pull a Russia and bomb Kherson into rubble and then fight thru the rubble they could. It seems like tho, Ukraine wants to starve the Russian in Kherson to buckle, which is why they keep targeting the rear of Russian supply line in Kherson.
> 
> I don't know which is worse, defend a city that you are not particularly welcome there and died there, or get starve or frozen to death on the frontline just to prove a point by your superior that they are holding on the city by day.





> Well, the Russian is hanging on by basically sending untrained troop to replace the people they lost


Why are Ukraine fans so fixated on this "poorly-trained hungry conscripts" meme, all mobiks have prior military service. Ukraine is on their 9th wave of mobilisation and apparently they're all well trained and competent and there's nothing to be concerned about there.


> And that lost a lot of their experience ground troop. Which is what they still can't recover from 8 months into this war


And Ukraine hasn't? There are 200k+ Russian soldiers in Ukraine fighting and gaining experience, so I don't know what you're trying to prove here.


> As I said, the situation in Kherson is a mess for the Russian, the only reason why they still hold Kherson is because Ukraine is probably under a strict order not to advance into the city and destroy the city with a street-to-street fight.


They hold Kherson because they are getting dug in to repel counteroffensives, setting up defensible positions and mining fields etc. There are around 40k Russian troops in the region. Ukraine cannot simply waltz in and take the city, every incursion so far has been repulsed and Ukrainian forces and supply lines/dumps are being harassed with artillery and loitering drones. The environmental conditions are also not favourable for the Ukrainians, the mud is a death trap for vehicles and a bum-rush through roads would be a suicide mission.


> Ukrainian already had troop within 30km border with Kherson, if they want to pull a Russia and bomb Kherson into rubble and then fight thru the rubble they could


They can't, see above.

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## ZeGerman

TruthHurtz said:


> Why are Ukraine fans so fixated on this "poorly-trained hungry conscripts" meme, all mobiks have prior military service. Ukraine is on their 9th wave of mobilisation and apparently they're all well trained and competent and there's nothing to be concerned about there.
> 
> And Ukraine hasn't? There are 200k+ Russian soldiers in Ukraine fighting and gaining experience, so I don't know what you're trying to prove here.
> 
> They hold Kherson because they are getting dug in to repel counteroffensives, setting up defensible positions and mining fields etc. There are around 40k Russian troops in the region. Ukraine cannot simply waltz in and take the city, every incursion so far has been repulsed and Ukrainian forces and supply lines/dumps are being harassed with artillery and loitering drones. The environmental conditions are also not favourable for the Ukrainians, the mud is a death trap for vehicles and a bum-rush through roads would be a suicide mission.
> 
> They can't, see above.


I do see a lot more ukranian losses from russian sources. Kherson is pure grinding for both sides now it seems.

However with the bad logistical lines and if the ukranians can keep up pressure and artillery attacks, it will be a difficult winter for the russians.


As for attacks on electric/water net. 
1. Terrorbombing civilian targets often did not break morale in the past.
2. Civilians can be relocated to other parts ukraine/EU.
3. Freezing kids are huge on matter of winning propaganda war/enticing further support. Flow of electric engineering, generators, warm clothes, and further anti-drone-anti air will accelerate. 

I do not see this tactic as “winning the war” for russia.

In meantime.
Winter so far in europe is light. (Luckily).
This means were almost at 100% gas reserves, while gas prices are falling. The latter spells big problems for Russia on the economic war front.

Support for war-aid remains high in europe. Despite economic hardship so far.
Even new supposedly pro-russian leaders (Italy) show solidarity. 

Some risk from the USA with their GOP nutters winning elections. However there is bipartisan support and i do not see them being able to backtrack lend-lease etc.

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## jhungary

TruthHurtz said:


> It's 7.6 million, you think housing an additional 10 million for *at least* 4 months is some trivial logistical task that won't strain resources? You think Soviet-era transformers and electrical substations are easy to replace within that timespan? I actually think you would have to be stupid or naïve to think refugees would return to a stone age country in the spring.


Lol, it wouldn't be 10 million people leaving now, Russian cannot take down the entire grid, most likely East of the Dnieper because Poland and Romania can and have been redirecting their grid to Lviv and Western Part of Ukraine, which unless you try to bomb the substation one by one which would be in Hundred if not Thousand, those place near the Poland and Romania border will not be affected. 

On the other hand, Ukraine still have 3 Nuclear Power Plant functioning in Western Side of the Country (Khmelnytskyi, Rivne, Yuzhnoukrainsk) combine with 4000 MW in total, those will not be bombed and take out of action and those can effectively supplies almost 90% of Western Ukraine, consider Ukraine power consumption per capita is 2800kW, which is roughly 1/3 of the entire Electricity output per year. Which mean it will not add another 10 millions refugee, because at least half of Ukraine are men, and half of the women and children and those who can leave had already left, and you are talking about 4 to 5 million people at most that can leave Ukraine. And a lot of those are in Western Ukraine. 

So yes, EU can take care of whatever refugee for 4 months without straining supplies. And lol, have you even talked to any Ukrainian refugee? Do you even know why only around 10 million left and not all of them are gone even when there is a war rage on? Don't ask people stupid question like that, if Ukrainian don't feel Ukrainian nationalism, they would have already surrendered a long time ago. You have to be naive to think Ukrainian would just bolt and never come back, if they do, then no one will be fighting the Russian right now.


----------



## jhungary

TruthHurtz said:


> Why are Ukraine fans so fixated on this "poorly-trained hungry conscripts" meme, all mobiks have prior military service. Ukraine is on their 9th wave of mobilisation and apparently they're all well trained and competent and there's nothing to be concerned about there.



First of all, you do know Russian give on average 1 week of training to the Russian mobilised troop before sending them in Ukraine. IT's about a month (maybe 5 weeks) since the announcement of mobilisation, and approximately half of the mobilised troop are already in Ukraine, which mean at best the best troop in that group have around 2 weeks of trianing. 

I personally train an intake of TDF force when I was in Ukraine back in April, it takes me 7 weeks to do that particular intake while their class ends in 9 weeks, just 4-weeks shorts of US Army Basic Training.

How much soldiering can you teach someone in 2 weeks max? I would say even 7 weeks or 9 if you also counted the PT phase, is not enough, how "well train" can you be for if you are trained for 2 weeks?



TruthHurtz said:


> And Ukraine hasn't? There are 200k+ Russian soldiers in Ukraine fighting and gaining experience, so I don't know what you're trying to prove here.



The problem is Ukraine do not have a manpower issue, not because they are on the 9th round of mobilisation, it's because their mobilisation are trained and equipped with US and NATO advisor, sometime train in Europe. That relief the training staff for frontline service. Russia on the other hand, have almost all of their doctrine and command staff in the frontline fighting, then you wonder who are giving these new recruit their training? 

The latest intel suggest Russian recruit are farmed out to Belarus for their initial training, and Belarus is not really know for their strict military discipline nor training regime, the best I can compare is if US ask Iraq to train the new US troop for frontline combat. How does that work??



TruthHurtz said:


> They hold Kherson because they are getting dug in to repel counteroffensives, setting up defensible positions and mining fields etc. There are around 40k Russian troops in the region. Ukraine cannot simply waltz in and take the city, every incursion so far has been repulsed and Ukrainian forces and supply lines/dumps are being harassed with artillery and loitering drones. The environmental conditions are also not favourable for the Ukrainians, the mud is a death trap for vehicles and a bum-rush through roads would be a suicide mission.



What defensible position? First of all, you know anyone with satellite can see how many defenses fortification is done in Kherson, right? There are only 1 line, and there are 3 behind Kherson between Kherson and Crimea. Which make sense because Kherson is ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RIVER. And the Russian is on the wrong side of it. 

Also, assuming you know something about how Forward defensive position works, it can be easily destroyed by artillery and reduced by bombardment. The Russian forward position is beyond Russian own artillery protection because it was expelled by the HIMARS and US and NATO made Artillery that pushes that line to 60km and beyond. Which mean whatever defensive position in front of Kherson is untenable simply because Ukrainian can bomb it day and night with their ranged artillery that outrange Russian.

And then you talk about supplies. How are you supplying Kherson with 3 broken and blown up bridge? There are no roadway nor railway connecting Kherson and Russian held rear, you are talking about 20,000 to 30,000 troop in Kherson which conventional wisdom suggest you will need 150-200 tons of supply per day to supply those troop minimum, most likely 300+ ton to be considered well fed and well-armed. How are you going to ship 200 tons of supply a day in cars or makeshift ferry? 



TruthHurtz said:


> They can't, see above.


What do you mean they can't? They are within 30km of Kherson, and that's according to Russian reporting. M777 have 45km range, Caeser have 55km Range, Pzh2000 have 60km range, HIMARS have 80km+ range. Even D-30 with rocket assisted round have 30km range, are you saying there are some kinds of forcefield that it cannot be shoot artillery and rocket from even they are well within range??

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589515456682917888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589303357134770176

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589562276121808896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589501880224604160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589512398343663616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589564593692868608

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> Well, not yet, but I would probably thinking about it if I am a Russian soldier in Kherson.
> 
> I would not want to be a Russian soldier in Kherson for the next 3 months.


I think that's the case with pretty much 90% of the Russian forces that fought in wars from 1941 till today


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## Reashot Xigwin

Look Russia are winning 😂😂😂

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589350410631860224

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## jhungary

Primus said:


> I think that's the case with pretty much 90% of the Russian forces that fought in wars from 1941 till today


Well, I'll be okay if I am a Russian soldier probably around 1945ish. 

But yes, in general, their way to fight has not change at all since probably 1917.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The mighty Russian army forced to retreat in a children's train. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589359753225859073

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## Viet

Ah cool

Putin’s shadow army, the neonazi Wagner hooligans, officially opens the headquarters in St. Petersburg.

Russia now has 3 armies, the Wagner, the Kadyrow and the Red army.








Besucher vor dem Wagner-Hauptquartier in St. Petersburg -


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## jhungary

A really stark contrast on how Russian and Ukrainian treated their fallen

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> Well, I'll be okay if I am a Russian soldier probably around 1945ish.
> 
> But yes, in general, their way to fight has not change at all since probably 1917.


Nah 1945 I still wouldn't have been willing to fight their way still. They may have improved by then, but still. The need for propaganda victories, and their attrition rate was still bad. For example, the reichstag raid, 2200 soviet soldiers killed to take a building just so they could raise their flag on it for a propaganda victory. That was unnecessary.


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## jhungary

Primus said:


> Nah 1945 I still wouldn't have been willing to fight their way still. They may have improved by then, but still. The need for propaganda victories, and their attrition rate was still bad. For example, the reichstag raid, 2200 soviet soldiers killed to take a building just so they could raise their flag on it for a propaganda victory. That was unnecessary.


lol, I said I would be okay with it, not I like those odd....

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589570142371188736

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> lol, I said I would be okay with it, not I like those odd....


How can you be okay with those odds regardless 💀


----------



## Viet

Ukraine gets 50x British FV103 Spartan tanks thanks to crowd funding.





50 solcher Schützenpanzer kommen nun in die Ukraine.









50 Panzer für Ukraine dank Crowdfunding in nur 36 Stunden


Ein ukrainische Charity rief zum Crowdfunding auf und besorgte in kürzester Zeit 50 britische Schützenpanzer.




www.heute.at


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589562301367345153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589605297051815937


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## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589562301367345153
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589605297051815937




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589581727437324290


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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589615504116748289

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Seeing that guy is still in Russian dugout, he is fair game by the Ukrainian until he surrendered (eg waving a white flag) to the Ukrainian and become POW. Because before he became a POW, the Geneva convention does not applies to the Ukrainian. On the other hand, if the Russian shoot that guy when he was in a Russian dug out, then Russia is actually violating the first Geneva convention....


I see, its still terrible to see the determination of one person to kill another and the determination of the other to survive. What a terrible things people do to one another. 


TruthHurtz said:


> It's 7.6 million, you think housing an additional 10 million for *at least* 4 months is some trivial logistical task that won't strain resources? You think Soviet-era transformers and electrical substations are easy to replace within that timespan? I actually think you would have to be stupid or naïve to think refugees would return to a stone age country in the spring.


Europe can easily accomodate any number of millions of refugees. Especially if they are ukranian. Germany took 5 million Syrians no that long ago and noone even noticed.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589562276121808896


This guy just had a hand grenade explode on his face. This is not good. 

Does aloe know the consequences of such a think, I mean do you die of concussion or is there not much left of that part of the body?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589593748308385794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589636067875254272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589578845086420993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589614524365418496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589640313328799744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589643494028902400

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## 1ndy

Hack-Hook said:


> wonder what it had to do with my post ? it even don't show what it belong to


It was all good when you were standing shoulder to shoulder with the same west you're cursing today. Hypocrite. 

Ref 1971 Bangladesh libration war.

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> Russia just work around all international laws about war saying that what they do is not a war, it's a *"*special military operation*"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's like when USA launched "preemptive strike" against Iraq.
> USA doesnt launch "first strikes", USA launchs "preemptive strikes"
> 
> Russia doesnt start "war", Russia start "special military operation" in a foreign country .
> 
> I think both are a pair of criminals evil clowns countries.


The US produced three Casus Belli in front of the UN.
You consider them the same because You choose to be uninformed.

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## Viet

Good against Russia terror bombings



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589571269363904512

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## Viet

That’s quick.

Putin says, as per Interfax, 320,000 mobi were recruited. From them he has already shifted 130,000 to Ukraine or about to enter Ukraine. That means those poor souls hardly received any training and preparation. Good to die worthless in foreign country.

By this pace, Russia loses about 1,000 men per day, he will recruit another 320,000 men in a year.

Probably that’s why Putin refuses to publish the total number of mobi.






Bild vergrößern
Wladimir Putin am Montag in der russischen Oblast Tver

Foto:
MAKSIM BLINOV / KREMLIN POOL / SPUTNIK / POOL / EPA


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> International Law only cover soldier that had surrendered. Once you become a POW, you are protected by the Geneva convention. Any hostile action toward POW is strictly forbidden.
> 
> Interestingly, First Geneva Convention only covered wounded and sick soldier treatment on your own side, because once you turn over that wounded soldier (it's also strictly forbidden to do so unless in exceptional circumstance), that soldier would become a POW of the other party. Then Third Geneva Convention applies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (I) on Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field,1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (III) on Prisoners of War, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What so interesting is, First Geneva Convention protect that wounded soldier from being murdered and tortured by his own side, while Third Geneva Convention protect that soldier who upon becoming a POW, from being torture and murdered by the enemy.
> 
> Seeing that guy is still in Russian dugout, he is fair game by the Ukrainian until he surrendered (eg waving a white flag) to the Ukrainian and become POW. Because before he became a POW, the Geneva convention does not applies to the Ukrainian. On the other hand, if the Russian shoot that guy when he was in a Russian dug out, then Russia is actually violating the first Geneva convention....


well if you look at 2nd convention you see that its a little more diverse a and cover a lot more than you said




__





Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (II) on Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked of Armed Forces at Sea, 1949






ihl-databases.icrc.org


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## Hack-Hook

1ndy said:


> It was all good when you were standing shoulder to shoulder with the same west you're cursing today. Hypocrite.
> 
> Ref 1971 Bangladesh libration war.


from where you get it first the war was 52 years ago and other government another world , there was a revolution after that if you are not aware
second this is from Wikipedia from where you get that








Bangladesh Liberation War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org








only one time Iran name has ever came in that war and that is USA shipped its weapon to Jordan then routed them through Iran to Pakistan even in this there is no name of Iran as participant




and even in this




so I ask again from where you get that fake data


----------



## jhungary

Primus said:


> How can you be okay with those odds regardless 💀


Well, I used to run with the ranger... My odd are probably worse than the Soviet during 1945...



Hack-Hook said:


> well if you look at 2nd convention you see that its a little more diverse a and cover a lot more than you said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (II) on Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked of Armed Forces at Sea, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org


Second Gevena Convention does not cover land combat.

It's Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (II) on Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked of Armed Forces *at Sea,* 1949

If you read the entire chapter, you will see it mention only the action at sea. Well, at least that's what my wife, a Military and International Law lawyer, who told me that.



thetutle said:


> I see, its still terrible to see the determination of one person to kill another and the determination of the other to survive. What a terrible things people do to one another.



Well, considering this is all you do when you are at war.......That's not really a terrible thing to do. 

The terrible thing is whoever start this and send their people to war. Now, that's terrible,

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Good against Russia terror bombings
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589571269363904512


They need ATACAMS so they can hit the site where the Russian store those munition. However many AA system they got is going to be passive, they need to be proactive to push the Russian out of their range. And that mean deep strike into both Russia and Belarus.

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## TruthHurtz

jhungary said:


> Lol, it wouldn't be 10 million people leaving now, Russian cannot take down the entire grid, most likely East of the Dnieper because Poland and Romania can and have been redirecting their grid to Lviv and Western Part of Ukraine, which unless you try to bomb the substation one by one which would be in Hundred if not Thousand, those place near the Poland and Romania border will not be affected.
> 
> On the other hand, Ukraine still have 3 Nuclear Power Plant functioning in Western Side of the Country (Khmelnytskyi, Rivne, Yuzhnoukrainsk) combine with 4000 MW in total, those will not be bombed and take out of action and those can effectively supplies almost 90% of Western Ukraine, consider Ukraine power consumption per capita is 2800kW, which is roughly 1/3 of the entire Electricity output per year. Which mean it will not add another 10 millions refugee, because at least half of Ukraine are men, and half of the women and children and those who can leave had already left, and you are talking about 4 to 5 million people at most that can leave Ukraine. And a lot of those are in Western Ukraine.
> 
> So yes, EU can take care of whatever refugee for 4 months without straining supplies. And lol, have you even talked to any Ukrainian refugee? Do you even know why only around 10 million left and not all of them are gone even when there is a war rage on? Don't ask people stupid question like that, if Ukrainian don't feel Ukrainian nationalism, they would have already surrendered a long time ago. You have to be naive to think Ukrainian would just bolt and never come back, if they do, then no one will be fighting the Russian right now.


Yes they can, again the transformers that make that power useful can be hit and destroyed, there are not "hundreds or thousands of them," there are 132 outdated substations in all of Ukraine, easy pickings for Shahed drones. They won't hit the NPPs themselves and risk a nuclear incident. Poland and Romania do not have the spare capacity to supply western Ukraine, the former is literally burning garbage for power. Handwave or spin it how you want, sending Ukraine back to the stone age is going to have massive consequences.


----------



## jhungary

TruthHurtz said:


> Yes they can, again the transformers that make that power useful can be hit and destroyed, there are not "hundreds or thousands of them," there are 132 outdated substations in all of Ukraine, easy pickings for Shahed drones. They won't hit the NPPs themselves and risk a nuclear incident. Poland and Romania do not have the spare capacity to supply western Ukraine, the former is literally burning garbage for power. Handwave or spin it how you want, sending Ukraine back to the stone age is going to have massive consequences.


Dude, it's not just substation, it's also distribution center, relay center and other infrastructure.

Also, you probably not going to hit that far west, because you can't control how Shahed Drone hit their target since they don't have optical feedback, you can program it hit a certain area, and that area is mighty close to Poland. And it's one thing for a drone to hit a large target like a power plant, it's another issue for them to hit a container size target like a substation. 

On the other hand, even if you did this and you can take out Polish/Romania Power grid in Ukraine. The Ukrainian still generate quite a lot of GigaWatt with their NPP (4GW with all 3 NPP and can be up to 5.6GW if they are running it on 100%). And all of them still operational is in Western Ukraine, as I said, before the war the energy quota is 2800kW per person a year, those NPP alone can generate 1/3 of all the power before the war, and now the industrial and commercial side of the PowerGrid can be forego, it's easy enough to redivert those power to Western Ukraine.

As for how "Massive" the consequence to send Ukraine back to stone age? Well, come back and tell me in March next year and see if it really does anything, because nobody knows, but if history prove us right, not a single country, including Russia and Soviet Union, crumble when they are without Power in war in Harsh Winter, not the UK, not Iran, not Israel, not Vietnam not everywhere. Unless you know something I don't, or you are actually a time traveller and came back from the future. If we go by the History Book, it won't do anything.

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## TruthHurtz

jhungary said:


> Dude, it's not just substation, it's also distribution center, relay center and other infrastructure.
> 
> Also, you probably not going to hit that far west, because you can't control how Shahed Drone hit their target since they don't have optical feedback, you can program it hit a certain area, and that area is mighty close to Poland. And it's one thing for a drone to hit a large target like a power plant, it's another issue for them to hit a container size target like a substation.
> 
> On the other hand, even if you did this and you can take out Polish/Romania Power grid in Ukraine. The Ukrainian still generate quite a lot of GigaWatt with their NPP (4GW with all 3 NPP and can be up to 5.6GW if they are running it on 100%). And all of them still operational is in Western Ukraine, as I said, before the war the energy quota is 2800kW per person a year, those NPP alone can generate 1/3 of all the power before the war, and now the industrial and commercial side of the PowerGrid can be forego, it's easy enough to redivert those power to Western Ukraine.
> 
> As for how "Massive" the consequence to send Ukraine back to stone age? Well, come back and tell me in March next year and see if it really does anything, because nobody knows, but if history prove us right, not a single country, including Russia and Soviet Union, crumble when they are without Power in war in Harsh Winter, not the UK, not Iran, not Israel, not Vietnam not everywhere. Unless you know something I don't, or you are actually a time traveller and came back from the future. If we go by the History Book, it won't do anything.


Ukraine's entire power grid is down to 60%, looks like Russian strikes have worked so far so your coping about the resilience of Ukraine's power infrastructure is based solely on your own wishcasting. The effects are cumulative, not only will Ukraine have to deal with a harsh winter, another refugee crisis, but 300k+ reinforcements and likely strikes against logistical infrastructure too. I'm no time traveller but I can put 2+2 together, the only difference is where I see 4 you see 5.

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## jhungary

TruthHurtz said:


> Ukraine's entire power grid is down to 60%, looks like Russian strikes have worked so far so your coping about the resilience of Ukraine's power infrastructure is based solely on your own wishcasting. The effects are cumulative, not only will Ukraine have to deal with a harsh winter, another refugee crisis, but 300k+ reinforcements and likely strikes against logistical infrastructure too. I'm no time traveller but I can put 2+2 together, the only difference is where I see 4 you see 5.


dude, again, you are the one that claim the power structure is going to make a fuzz, when you yourselve also saying Ukraine power is down to 60%. Can that 60% cover the western Ukraine? You keep saying no, sure, 60% of national power grid cannot cover 50% of the entire country, I believe you. lol

On the other hand, they may as well send in 1.3 million "reinforcement" with 2 weeks training it wouldn't make a different, had you ever undergo military training? You know how much training 2 weeks will get you? You probably are not even going to be proficiency with a rifle if all you had is 2 weeks training then you got thrown into the frontline, let alone formation, basic soldiering technique, and fieldcraft. US Army Basic is a 13-week course, then you acquire "BASIC" soldiering skill, which is different than being an infantry, to be an infantry, you will need 16 weeks of AIT to learn how to lay ambushes, how to move between tactical environment, and basic tactics and so on. It makes good patriotic novel to send untrained recruit to the frontline, but it does not work in battle. Because on the other side you are facing a 9 week trained Ukrianian soldier with 8 months fighting experience who were rotated between each deployment.

Talking about coping. Again, *Russia lost 200+ village and settlement since they terror bomb Ukrainian infrastructure in late September*. Russian gain maybe 3. And Russia is poised to lose Kherson. And you are telling me Russia is doing a good job in the frontline? In fact, as I said, Zelenskyy would probably do a Churchill and send Putin a thank you note, because Russia effectively put pressure off Ukrainian frontline when they focus on Civilian Infrastructure, just like Hitler did put pressure off RAF when they were winning the Battle of Britain. Plus all these histories of war said bombing civilian infrastructure did nothing all the way tracing back to Roman siege in Carthage back in 136BC, and yet you think it will work in this war. Now who's coping?

Again, come back and tell me about this work next year, because I don't indulge in personal fantasy

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589708178039545856

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## The SC

Many updates..


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Second Gevena Convention does not cover land combat.
> 
> It's Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (II) on Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked of Armed Forces *at Sea,* 1949
> 
> If you read the entire chapter, you will see it mention only the action at sea. Well, at least that's what my wife, a Military and International Law lawyer, who told me that.


well convention I , edition 2016

*COMMENTARY OF 2016
CHAPTER II : WOUNDED AND SICK
1313  *This chapter is one of the most important in the Convention. The Convention may even be said to rest upon it, since it embodies the essential idea championed by the founders of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement, an idea that has dominated all of the Geneva Conventions since 1864 – namely, that the person of the soldier who is wounded or sick, and who is therefore _hors de combat_, is from that moment inviolable. The wounded and sick, whether friend or foe, must be tended with the same care.

*1315  *Article 15 complements Article 12 by imposing an obligation ‘to search for and collect’ the wounded and sick in order to remove them from the immediate danger zone and to enable them to receive the necessary medical treatment and care. This is further complemented by Article 18, which contains the kernel of Henry Dunant’s idea for civilians to take action to assist and care for wounded and sick members of the armed forces, whether in response to an appeal by the military commander or spontaneously. A Party to the conflict must consider these options when taking ‘all possible measures’ to search for and collect the wounded and sick and in ensuring that they receive the medical care their condition requires.
*ARTICLE 12*

Members of the armed forces and other persons mentioned in the following Article [ Link ] , who are wounded or sick, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.
They shall be treated humanely and cared for by the Party to the conflict in whose power they may be, without any adverse distinction founded on sex, race, nationality, religion, political opinions, or any other similar criteria. Any attempts upon their lives, or violence to their persons, shall be strictly prohibited; in particular, they shall not be murdered or exterminated, subjected to torture or to biological experiments; they shall not wilfully be left without medical assistance and care, nor shall conditions exposing them to contagion or infection be created.
Only urgent medical reasons will authorize priority in the order of treatment to be administered.
Women shall be treated with all consideration due to their sex.
The Party to the conflict which is compelled to abandon wounded or sick to the enemy shall, as far as military considerations permit, leave with them a part of its medical personnel and material to assist in their care.

*and 1952 comment on article 12
It should be pointed out in this connection that the notion of "neutrality", a term which in the 1864 text expressed the immunity enjoyed by ambulances, medical personnel, and by implication the wounded themselves, had already been dropped by 1906, The notion in question no doubt conveyed clearly enough that a combatant ceased to be an enemy once he was wounded and therefore harmless, and also the conception of medical personnel as being outside the conflict; but it did not correspond to reality, as the term "neutrality" refers essentially to the abstention of persons who are taking no part in the conflict. In place of this unsuitable and inexact expression it was thought preferable to substitute the notion of respect and protection in all circumstances. The word "respect" (' respecter ') means, according to the Dictionary of the French Academy, "to spare, not to attack" [p.135] (' épargner, ne point attaquer ') (2), whereas "protect" (' protéger ') means "to come to someone's defence, to lend help and support" (' prendre la défense de
quelqu'un, prêter secours et appui '). The introduction of these words made it unlawful for an enemy to attack, kill, illtreat or in any way harm a fallen and unarmed soldier, while it at the same time imposed upon the enemy an obligation to come to his aid and give him such care as his condition required.*


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589708178039545856



The two drones which drop 6 81mm mortar bombs are unfortunately busy in Kherson. They would've been immensely useful here.

Making 2 more for the Eastern Front wouldn't be that expensive, or hard, but they have to be flown pretty much by engineers who can tweak PID settings, gyroscope, optical flow sensor in the field. Moreover, L41's detonator have to be unsafed in a very specific way, the process we fear can't be entrusted to a random soldier.

Third, only troops there been issued with L41. On the Eastern Front, they use Soviet 82mm ammo.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589652194307244033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589555782768787456







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589551954476556288

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## The SC

Ukraine Wins at Pavlovka | Russia Re-enters Bilohorivka​


----------



## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589705846493437952
Air defense in Kiev active against Iranian drones

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> well convention I , edition 2016
> 
> *COMMENTARY OF 2016
> CHAPTER II : WOUNDED AND SICK
> 1313  *This chapter is one of the most important in the Convention. The Convention may even be said to rest upon it, since it embodies the essential idea championed by the founders of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement, an idea that has dominated all of the Geneva Conventions since 1864 – namely, that the person of the soldier who is wounded or sick, and who is therefore _hors de combat_, is from that moment inviolable. The wounded and sick, whether friend or foe, must be tended with the same care.
> 
> *1315  *Article 15 complements Article 12 by imposing an obligation ‘to search for and collect’ the wounded and sick in order to remove them from the immediate danger zone and to enable them to receive the necessary medical treatment and care. This is further complemented by Article 18, which contains the kernel of Henry Dunant’s idea for civilians to take action to assist and care for wounded and sick members of the armed forces, whether in response to an appeal by the military commander or spontaneously. A Party to the conflict must consider these options when taking ‘all possible measures’ to search for and collect the wounded and sick and in ensuring that they receive the medical care their condition requires.
> *ARTICLE 12*
> 
> Members of the armed forces and other persons mentioned in the following Article [ Link ] , who are wounded or sick, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.
> They shall be treated humanely and cared for by the Party to the conflict in whose power they may be, without any adverse distinction founded on sex, race, nationality, religion, political opinions, or any other similar criteria. Any attempts upon their lives, or violence to their persons, shall be strictly prohibited; in particular, they shall not be murdered or exterminated, subjected to torture or to biological experiments; they shall not wilfully be left without medical assistance and care, nor shall conditions exposing them to contagion or infection be created.
> Only urgent medical reasons will authorize priority in the order of treatment to be administered.
> Women shall be treated with all consideration due to their sex.
> The Party to the conflict which is compelled to abandon wounded or sick to the enemy shall, as far as military considerations permit, leave with them a part of its medical personnel and material to assist in their care.
> 
> *and 1952 comment on article 12
> It should be pointed out in this connection that the notion of "neutrality", a term which in the 1864 text expressed the immunity enjoyed by ambulances, medical personnel, and by implication the wounded themselves, had already been dropped by 1906, The notion in question no doubt conveyed clearly enough that a combatant ceased to be an enemy once he was wounded and therefore harmless, and also the conception of medical personnel as being outside the conflict; but it did not correspond to reality, as the term "neutrality" refers essentially to the abstention of persons who are taking no part in the conflict. In place of this unsuitable and inexact expression it was thought preferable to substitute the notion of respect and protection in all circumstances. The word "respect" (' respecter ') means, according to the Dictionary of the French Academy, "to spare, not to attack" [p.135] (' épargner, ne point attaquer ') (2), whereas "protect" (' protéger ') means "to come to someone's defence, to lend help and support" (' prendre la défense de
> quelqu'un, prêter secours et appui '). The introduction of these words made it unlawful for an enemy to attack, kill, illtreat or in any way harm a fallen and unarmed soldier, while it at the same time imposed upon the enemy an obligation to come to his aid and give him such care as his condition required.*


Read the highlighted in red part?



> *It should be pointed out in this connection that the notion of "neutrality", a term which in the 1864 text expressed the immunity enjoyed by ambulances, medical personnel, and by implication the wounded themselves, had already been dropped by 1906, The notion in question no doubt conveyed clearly enough that a combatant ceased to be an enemy once he was wounded and therefore harmless, and also the conception of medical personnel as being outside the conflict; but it did not correspond to reality, as the term "neutrality" refers essentially to the abstention of persons who are taking no part in the conflict. In place of this unsuitable and inexact expression it was thought preferable to substitute the notion of respect and protection in all circumstances. The word "respect" (' respecter ') means, according to the Dictionary of the French Academy, "to spare, not to attack" [p.135] (' épargner, ne point attaquer ') (2), whereas "protect" (' protéger ') means "to come to someone's defence, to lend help and support" (' prendre la défense de
> quelqu'un, prêter secours et appui '). The introduction of these words made it unlawful for an enemy to attack, kill, illtreat or in any way harm a fallen and unarmed soldier, while it at the same time imposed upon the enemy an obligation to come to his aid and give him such care as his condition required.*




The following come from my wife, a Military Lawyer and an International Lawyer

The red part specifically mentioned that wounded is not in a condition of protection for the enemy. On the other hand, fallen mean incapacitated and unarmed can mean quite a lot of things, In most case, it directed at a person who have been verified to be unarmed and cannot be near any arms (ie after they are demilitarized). You don't have to have firearm on you to be considered "Armed" as long as it is readily available.

For example, a soldier went to sleep at a barrack does not consider to be unarmed. Even if he/she does not have any firearm on him/her when they sleep, hence a barrack full of sleeping soldier can be considered legitimate target.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

*Worst performance by NATO.*

*It has been 8 months yet they have not been able to balkanize Russia.*

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## MeFishToo

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> *Worst performance by NATO.
> 
> It has been 8 months yet they have not been able to balkanize Russia.*


Projection?

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## Constantin84

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> *Worst performance by NATO.
> 
> It has been 8 months yet they have not been able to balkanize Russia.*


NATO just sends left overs and third rate equipment while enjoying the vodka addicts dying and making a fool of themselves. We're also having a blast seeing idiotic cheerleaders as yourself coping...

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## Beny Karachun

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> *Worst performance by NATO.
> 
> It has been 8 months yet they have not been able to balkanize Russia.*


So long as the entire Russian army isn't blown up, NATO isn't involved yet

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Read the highlighted in red part?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following come from my wife, a Military Lawyer and an International Lawyer
> 
> The red part specifically mentioned that wounded is not in a condition of protection for the enemy. On the other hand, fallen mean incapacitated and unarmed can mean quite a lot of things, In most case, it directed at a person who have been verified to be unarmed and cannot be near any arms (ie after they are demilitarized). You don't have to have firearm on you to be considered "Armed" as long as it is readily available.
> 
> For example, a soldier went to sleep at a barrack does not consider to be unarmed. Even if he/she does not have any firearm on him/her when they sleep, hence a barrack full of sleeping soldier can be considered legitimate target.


Read it completely it says because of those many things the blue part specially

Members of the armed forces and other persons mentioned in the following Article [ Link ] , who are wounded or sick, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.
They shall be treated humanely and cared for by the Party to the conflict in whose power they may be, without any adverse distinction founded on sex, race, nationality, religion, political opinions, or any other similar criteria. Any attempts upon their lives, or violence to their persons, shall be strictly prohibited; in particular, they shall not be murdered or exterminated, subjected to torture or to biological experiments; they shall not wilfully be left without medical assistance and care, nor shall conditions exposing them to contagion or infection be created.
Only urgent medical reasons will authorize priority in the order of treatment to be administered.
Women shall be treated with all consideration due to their sex.
The Party to the conflict which is compelled to abandon wounded or sick to the enemy shall, as far as military considerations permit, leave with them a part of its medical personnel and material to assist in their care.


----------



## 1ndy

Hack-Hook said:


> from where you get it first the war was 52 years ago and other government another world , there was a revolution after that if you are not aware
> second this is from Wikipedia from where you get that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Liberation War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 894408
> 
> only one time Iran name has ever came in that war and that is USA shipped its weapon to Jordan then routed them through Iran to Pakistan even in this there is no name of Iran as participant
> View attachment 894410
> 
> and even in this
> View attachment 894411
> 
> so I ask again from where you get that fake data


There you go my friend. 








Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> Read it completely it says because of those many things the blue part specially
> 
> Members of the armed forces and other persons mentioned in the following Article [ Link ] , who are wounded or sick, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.
> They shall be treated humanely and cared for by the Party to the conflict in whose power they may be, without any adverse distinction founded on sex, race, nationality, religion, political opinions, or any other similar criteria. Any attempts upon their lives, or violence to their persons, shall be strictly prohibited; in particular, they shall not be murdered or exterminated, subjected to torture or to biological experiments; they shall not wilfully be left without medical assistance and care, nor shall conditions exposing them to contagion or infection be created.
> Only urgent medical reasons will authorize priority in the order of treatment to be administered.
> Women shall be treated with all consideration due to their sex.
> *The Party to the conflict which is compelled to abandon wounded or sick to the enemy shall*, as far as military considerations permit, leave with them a part of its medical personnel and material to assist in their care.


That part is for your own side, noted "Party to the Conflict" and subsequent referral to "The Party to the conflict which is compelled to abandon wounded or sick* to the enemy shall...*" which suggest the article did not talk about the enemy.

Again, as my wife explained before, once he/she were handed over as a POW, then they were covered by 3rd Geneva Convention, before then, they are covered by the first, and the first only cover action to your own side.

Again, please don't venture into unknown, I don't know how much you know about law, if I have to guess, my wife probably know a lot more than you do, and I will defer to her expertise as a lawyer than you, which you once again come to fishman net argument, you just spread the net and see if you have any talking point, you first talked about 2nd Geneva Convention, which does not cover land combat, then you talk about 1st Geneva convention about the term Fallen and Unarmed, then my wife said you can be armed without armament at your hand, and now you are talking about first Geneva convention, which as my wife point out that the wording points to it applies to your own side.

If you keep doing that, I may need to charge you for my wife's time.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589664212137435136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589664216835067906

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1


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## Bengal71

thetutle said:


> My Russian GF claims she is able to get money out of russia at quiet good exchange rates. Almost Spot rates, using a Chinese payment system, to get it into an asian bank account she has opened.
> 
> I dont know if its true, since she is woman and a russian I dont believe a darn thing she says.
> 
> Can you actually transfer money from a russian account into an asian one using some Chinese system if anyone knows?



If you can't even trust her on simple things like that then that's not a good GF.

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## jhungary

Bengal71 said:


> If you can't even trust her on simple things like that then that's not a good GF.


He is right tho, never trust a Russian or Ukrainian, used to date an Ukrainian once, if she is opening her mouth, she is lying, same thing with Russian. 

You don't date Russian or Ukrainian because they are honest, you date them because they are good companion...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589599953143283713


----------



## jhungary

__





Wang Yi Meets with Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba of Ukraine






auckland.china-consulate.gov.cn





Look like China is walking back on the Russian, this should be fun.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> That part is for your own side, noted "Party to the Conflict" and subsequent referral to "The Party to the conflict which is compelled to abandon wounded or sick* to the enemy shall...*" which suggest the article did not talk about the enemy.
> 
> Again, as my wife explained before, once he/she were handed over as a POW, then they were covered by 3rd Geneva Convention, before then, they are covered by the first, and the first only cover action to your own side.
> 
> Again, please don't venture into unknown, I don't know how much you know about law, if I have to guess, my wife probably know a lot more than you do, and I will defer to her expertise as a lawyer than you, which you once again come to fishman net argument, you just spread the net and see if you have any talking point, you first talked about 2nd Geneva Convention, which does not cover land combat, then you talk about 1st Geneva convention about the term Fallen and Unarmed, then my wife said you can be armed without armament at your hand, and now you are talking about first Geneva convention, which as my wife point out that the wording points to it applies to your own side.
> 
> If you keep doing that, I may need to charge you for my wife's time.


please ask your wife about the meaning of article 12
that part say if enemy can't evacuate its injured soldiers and you found them you must treat them but in such case they must leave some medical equipment with them . but nowhere it say you can abandon treating them if they don't leave any medical equipment , they just acted against the convention , its not mean you also can act against it and the first part i point is separate from it


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MeFishToo said:


> Projection?



*China would have balkanized Russia under 3 months.*



jhungary said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wang Yi Meets with Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> auckland.china-consulate.gov.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look like China is walking back on the Russian, this should be fun.



Chinese are wise and they know that Russia will lose this war with NATO and be balkanized.

Check this thread

Has China dumped Russia for NATO?​








Has China dumped Russia for NATO?


Has China dumped Russia for NATO? Xi Jinping says China can work with U.S. ahead of G20 summit President Xi Jinping meets German Chancellor Olaf Scholz in China China’s Xi warns Putin not to use nuclear arms in Ukraine Chinese leader makes the call during a visit by German Chancellor Olaf...



defence.pk


----------



## patero

jhungary said:


> He is right tho, never trust a Russian or Ukrainian, used to date an Ukrainian once, if she is opening her mouth, she is lying, same thing with Russian.
> 
> You don't date Russian or Ukrainian because they are honest, you date them because they are good companion...


Yup, been through that with both Russian and Ukrainian women, not exactly the most truthful people I'd ever met. In fact of the hundreds of people I'd worked with from Russia and Ukraine I struggle to remember any of them not being pathological liars. 70 odd years under the Soviet system did that to them, creating a nation of liars and people who would not take responsibility for anything.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> please ask your wife about the meaning of article 12
> that part say if enemy can't evacuate its injured soldiers and you found them you must treat them but in such case they must leave some medical equipment with them . but nowhere it say you can abandon treating them if they don't leave any medical equipment , they just acted against the convention , its not mean you also can act against it and the first part i point is separate from it



It never said "enemy", it expressly mentioned "Party of the Conflict" and then subsequently said "compelled to abandon wounded or sick to the enemy shall" It expressly mean your own party. That's number 1. It's not if you found them you must treat them, because that has explicitly covered by Article 3 of Geneva Convention. Simply because anyone you encountered that is NOT NEUTRAL, are considered enemy until the act of surrendering occured, otherwise, it would basically cover EVERYONE on the opposite side, whether or not they are wounded or armed.

And there is no First part or Second part, it refers to the same thing. Because they cannot be inconspicuous and mean one thing at one point another thing at another, because that's how people can argue the wording, which render the entire article/convention pointless, because you don't know which one, they are referring to. 

Also, if what you interpreted is true, then it will make Article 12 of third Geneva Convention redundant. Because they are essentially saying the same thing.

Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE TREATMENT OF PRISONERS AND CONDITIONS FOR THEIR TRANSFER TO ANOTHER POWER
ARTICLE 12 [ Link ]


> Prisoners of war are in the hands of the enemy Power, but not of the individuals or military units who have captured them. Irrespective of the individual responsibilities that may exist, the Detaining Power is responsible for the treatment given them.
> 
> Prisoners of war may only be transferred by the Detaining Power to a Power which is a party to the Convention and after the Detaining Power has satisfied itself of the willingness and ability of such transferee Power to apply the Convention. When prisoners of war are transferred under such circumstances, responsibility for the application of the Convention rests on the Power accepting them while they are in its custody.
> 
> Nevertheless if that Power fails to carry out the provisions of the Convention in any important respect, the Power by whom the prisoners of war were transferred shall, upon being notified by the Protecting Power, take effective measures to correct the situation or shall request the return of the prisoners of war. Such requests must be complied with.



Which mean either Red Cross were stupid enough to make redundant article, or what you are interpreting is wrong.



patero said:


> Yup, been through that with both Russian and Ukrainian women, not exactly the most truthful people I'd ever met. In fact of the hundreds of people I'd worked with from Russia and Ukraine I struggle to remember any of them not being pathological liars. 70 odd years under the Soviet system did that to them, creating a nation of liars and people who would not take responsibility for anything.


Well, yeah, they lies on just about anything. I remember the girl I used to date she told me she was 20 (I was 27) and there are no way she is 20 (She is much older)

I would say this is how they get by growing up, I mean, they're good people, it's not like they are lying to you to deceive you (well, not most of the time) but yes, in general you probably wouldn't buy a second hand car from them.....That's the trust level I have with them.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589753476049170432

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589721826435158016

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wang Yi Meets with Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> auckland.china-consulate.gov.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look like China is walking back on the Russian, this should be fun.


Doubt it, Chinese will say you have lost the war and now negotiate peace else it will get worse.


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Doubt it, Chinese will say you have lost the war and now negotiate peace else it will get worse.


Well, they could have said that 6 months ago when they refused to see the Ukrainian FM.

And you will have to be really naive to think Russia is at a better position than it was before the war. Chinese is anything but stupid, they know Russia from now on is going to be the stone that weighting down on China, basically Russia is becoming another North Korea. And Chinese don't need another North Korea.

It's pretty obvious China expect a swift Russian victory, and not this.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> He is right tho, never trust a Russian or Ukrainian, used to date an Ukrainian once, if she is opening her mouth, she is lying, same thing with Russian.
> 
> You don't date Russian or Ukrainian because they are honest, you date them because they are good companion...


I heard that bars in Russia are now filled with mostly women...

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Well, they could have said that 6 months ago when they refused to see the Ukrainian FM.
> 
> And you will have to be really naive to think Russia is at a better position than it was before the war. Chinese is anything but stupid, they know Russia from now on is going to be the stone that weighting down on China, basically Russia is becoming another North Korea. And Chinese don't need another North Korea.
> 
> It's pretty obvious China expect a swift Russian victory, and not this.


There is no way Russia will lose any war, you must be naïve or deceitful to pretend otherwise , you are yearning for MAD , don't know why. Is your life that miserable and sick that you want to end it? What do you hope to achieve by provoking Russia even more?

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## khansaheeb




----------



## khansaheeb

Ukrainian official says Iranian ballistic missiles bought by Russia may need to be destroyed at their launch sites


About 4.5 million Ukrainians are dealing with power outages caused by Russian attacks on civilian infrastructure, according to President Volodymyr Zelensky. Follow live updates here.




www.cnn.com





11 hr 55 min ago
Ukrainian official says Iranian ballistic missiles bought by Russia may need to be destroyed at their launch sites​From CNN's Julia Kesaieva in Kyiv and Tim Lister






Ukrainian Air Force spokesperson Yurii Ihnat holds a briefing in Kyiv, Ukraine, on June 14. (Ukrinform/Shutterstock)

Ukraine's air force says that newly arrived western air defense systems will help deal with the new threat of Iranian ballistic missiles reportedly being purchased by Russia.
Yuriy Ihnat, Air Force spokesperson, told a briefing in Kyiv that Ukraine might target the Iranian missiles at their launch sites, which would probably be well inside Russia. 


> "They must somehow be destroyed, probably from where they are launched. Because we have no effective means of fighting ballistic [missiles], except for their physical destruction at the launch stage."


Ihnat said the Iranian missiles have "a range of 300 and 700 kilometers, which in principle will not create anything new for Ukraine, because [Russian-made] Iskanders were used from the first day of the war."
"I think both the top military leadership and our partners are working on this issue, looking for effective ways to counter these new threats," Ihnat said. 
He said that the Russians were unable to make progress on the battlefield and had resorted to attacking infrastructure supplying energy and water. "They want to hit energy facilities in the autumn-winter period first of all, because people's lives largely depend on them. This air terrorism will continue by all available means."
"It is clear that the missiles that will be received from Iran, if it is done, will be used at the energy infrastructure facilities, and [the Russians] will continue to strike with cruise missiles as well."
CNN reported on Nov. 1 that Iran is preparing to send about 1,000 additional weapons, including short range ballistic missiles and more attack drones, to Russia, citing officials from a western country that closely monitors Iran's weapons program.

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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The US produced three Casus Belli in front of the UN.
> You consider them the same because You choose to be uninformed.



Russia also shows proves about "Ukraine biolabs", like USA did with "Iraq WMD", same bullshit, anyway that's not the point.

They called "preemptive strike" instead "retaliation strike", so it's not a so common "casus belli".

If USA did a normal war due to a casus belli, they wouldn't need to invent the stupid thing of "preemptive strike".

It's so funny call a aggression first strike war as "preemptive strike" like call "Special military op" to a aggression war.

Anyway, both are a way to work around international laws about war.

Just to name in a different way a war of aggression. And then, international laws are useless if there is nobody strong enough to judge you.

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## BHAN85

How USA dominates European rulers


Some people can't understand why Europe suicide themselves energetically/economically/militarily facing Russia. Here is the answer: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/05/15/the-kremlin-never-learns-2/ Years ago I was in the Pentagon in the office of a very high official being offered an...



defence.pk


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> please ask your wife about the meaning of article 12
> that part say if enemy can't evacuate its injured soldiers and you found them you must treat them but in such case they must leave some medical equipment with them . but nowhere it say you can abandon treating them if they don't leave any medical equipment , they just acted against the convention , its not mean you also can act against it and the first part i point is separate from it


You are aware that now he really can bill you for her time, LOL…



BHAN85 said:


> Russia also shows proves about "Ukraine biolabs", like USA did with "Iraq WMD", same bullshit, anyway that's not the point.
> 
> They called "preemptive strike" instead "retaliation strike", so it's not a so common "casus belli".
> 
> If USA did a normal war due to a casus belli, they wouldn't need to invent the stupid thing of "preemptive strike".
> 
> It's so funny call a aggression first strike war as "preemptive strike" like call "Special military op" to a aggression war.
> 
> Anyway, both are a way to work around international laws about war.
> 
> Just to name in a different way a war of aggression. And then, international laws are useless if there is nobody strong enough to judge you.


If you are not aware that the US presented casus belli before the invasion of Iraq, then you have very little to add to the discussion.

They presented three casus belli. All three must be bogus for the war to be unlawful. That one fails is not enough.

Russia did not present a single valid casus belli.

That makes the US invasion legal, and Russias invasion illegal.
The US did not start a new war. It simply terminated the ceasefire agreement after numerous violations (from both sides).
So the invasion is not a war of aggression from the US side. It is an Iraqi war of aggression.

Russia is most definitely committing a war of aggression.

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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You are aware that now he really can bill you for her time, LOL…
> 
> 
> If you are not aware that the US presented casus belli before the invasion of Iraq, then you have very little to add to the discussion.
> 
> They presented three casus belli. All three must be bogus for the war to be unlawful. That one fails is not enough.
> 
> Russia did not present a single valid casus belli.
> 
> That makes the US invasion legal, and Russias invasion illegal.


That's not the point.

The point is call a war in a different way to work around war legislations.

Change the meaning of words to elude legislations.

USA invented the term "Preemptive Strike".
And now Russia invents "Special Military Op".


----------



## That Guy

BHAN85 said:


> That's not the point.
> 
> The point is call a war in a different way to work around war legislations.
> 
> Change the meaning of words to elude legislations.
> 
> USA invented the term "Preemptive Strike".
> And now Russia invents "Special Military Op".


Just....to be clear, the USA didn't invest the concept of preemptive strike. Don't know where the term came from, but the concept is older than the birth of the USA.

Also, the Russians got their idea of "special military operations" from the US, as the US legally doesn't call most of their wars as wars, but rather large scale military operations.


----------



## Viet

What’s happening to the world’s second most powerful army?

Russia army is in the defensive. Impossible regaining the initiative with the mobis. Hopeless sending the mobis against Ukraine artillery.
Putin makes it to a corrupt and incompetent army.
Many of his troops are now busy with looting at Kherson after the civilians are evacuated or deported.

Ukraine army is on the move.






Ukrainischer Panzer in der Südukraine: Der Krieg hat laut UN zu der größten Vertreibung seit Jahrzehnten geführt. (Quelle: Valentyn Ogirenko/Reuters/dpa-bilder)

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## Reashot Xigwin

The rusky are boned. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589696502360047616


That Guy said:


> Just....to be clear, the USA didn't invest the concept of preemptive strike. Don't know where the term came from, but the concept is older than the birth of the USA.
> 
> Also, the Russians got their idea of "special military operations" from the US, as the US legally doesn't call most of their wars as wars, but rather large scale military operations.


I think the difference is that US doesn't imprison you for thought crime for calling it a war. 

Also asking for a friend can someone post Russian soldier raping another soldier. Its Censored of course....

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> There is no way Russia will lose any war, you must be naïve or deceitful to pretend otherwise , you are yearning for MAD , don't know why. Is your life that miserable and sick that you want to end it? What do you hope to achieve by provoking Russia even more?


I don't know if there are anyway Russia will lose any war, I can say they aren't doing good at the moment. And I don't see how Russia can turn this battlefield around, they had been wounded and both resource and manpower are running low. That's not a good sign for any war.

And sure, let Russia had Ukraine because they have nuke, other people also have nuke you know, maybe the world should cease to exist with only the 11 nuclear states that remain? They can't act like bully in the sand pit and yell MAD everytime they are losing a fight. The world will not give in to nuclear demand, and this is something even Xi himself said





__





China's Xi Jinping rebukes Putin in stern anti-nuclear message






www.msn.com





I don't know, or care what you or anybody think why Russia will win, Because that's an opinion, and everyone has one. I only care about how the situation on the ground is happening and the tactical and strategical implication, and all sign points to Russia is going to lose Kherson, and once they do, that's the entire war goes because they will leave an entire flank open. And that's the pure Military Point of view, you may disagree with it, that does not mean it is not how it goes Militarily.



gambit said:


> I heard that bars in Russia are now filled with mostly women...


It's kind of catch 22 tho, you go in there, you may get drafted and fight for Russia.....


----------



## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> That's not the point.
> 
> The point is call a war in a different way to work around war legislations.
> 
> Change the meaning of words to elude legislations.
> 
> USA invented the term "Preemptive Strike".
> And now Russia invents "Special Military Op".


US does not call what happened in Iraq a war is because they don't see it as a war, and you will need a congress declaration of war in order to call that a war, while there are absolutely no point for US to call that a war because the different is there are certain thing you can do once the congress declare a war on someone (Like war economy, reimplementing selective service and so on) and all those are not needed in Iraq, as US is using an existing force to start an operation. Which does not require a declaration of war. 

On the other hand, on an Interntional scale, it makes no different at all whether US call it a war, because the Law of War uses language such as "Conflict" and "Military Operation" you don't need to be in a "war" like scenario to have law of war and Geneva convention cover the action. Which mean whatever US call the invasion of Iraq have no impact on how Law of War and Geneva Convention on said operation.

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## BHAN85

That Guy said:


> Just....to be clear, the USA didn't invest the concept of preemptive strike. Don't know where the term came from, but the concept is older than the birth of the USA.
> 
> Also, the Russians got their idea of "special military operations" from the US, as the US legally doesn't call most of their wars as wars, but rather large scale military operations.


Well, then USA popularized the term.

Anyway it's not the point neither.

Just if you start a legal war, you dont need to use those strange concepts.

A normal guy will need just to take a look to a world map to know how it's impossible Iraq could threat USA mainland 

But a hard brainwashed guy can swallow every stupid bullshit lie. It's like try to reason with a robot, losing time. The robots are feed with electric energy, and the stupid NATO slaves are feed with money, that's the only difference.

"Preemptive strike" and "Military special op" are just synonymous of aggression war, to avoid intl war legislations.


----------



## zectech

The Democrats are already controlled opposition. Talk to a Bernie Bros and these know that the Democrats are working for cia Republican agenda, as 'Republican-lite' Democrats.

The cia wants a new USA, a Russian styled "government", where the Democrats are not only controlled opposition, the Democrats are both weak and controlled opposition, never in Washington controlling Congress and the White House. Same as United Russia Party is the only "winner" year after year. Putin and cronies are the only allowed "winner", year after year. The Republican cia wants this for cia Republicans. As Putinite trolls say there is democracy in Russia, when it is in fact a mafia criminal state. Putinites want this for the US, one party, only Trump, only Trump loyalists. This is what was defeated when Mike Pence said no to Trump.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588410965938569216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580992525673717760
This is the cia push of the alt wrong morons that vomit about the WEF, UN agenda 2030, 'Great Reset' of Mask Wearing, and other Alex Jones Qanon garbage.

Trump is both the Qanon candidate:








Donald Trump is the QAnon president. And he's proud of it | Richard Wolffe


Under his leadership, and with his support, QAnon candidates like Marjorie Taylor Greene in Georgia are on a fast track to elected office




www.theguardian.com





And Trump is the Deepstate of the George Bush cia, now loyalists to Trump:








The Real Deep State Is Trump


How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom




newrepublic.com





The new Christian zionists that are the political base of cia Republican Party are the Trumper Qanon tinfoil hatters.

Watch Faux News, watch Newsmax, watch OAN... and you are to find that the Republicans are 100% chips in for cia Pompeo and Trump. And Trumpers oppose the EU, oppose NATO, oppose having political opposition. Trumpers want Russia controlling Europe, European politics.

cia Republicans want a one party state, and Trump staged a domestic terrorist coup to achieve this. Ask every Democrat on topic of Republican goal to have a one party state of Republicans rigging election results if Republicans lose.

Trump and Putin want Russia Republicans to turn the USA into Russia.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The rusky are boned.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589696502360047616


well tow certainly can deal with t-72 and its variant from all sides, i cant vouch it for T-34s that soon come to battle field as I doubt it is validated against them (I heard russian have good Experience with those Tanks). but calling it legendary is a little stretching it as it will probably have problem dealing with more modern tank.


Reashot Xigwin said:


> I think the difference is that US doesn't imprison you for thought crime for calling it a war.
> 
> Also asking for a friend can someone post Russian soldier raping another soldier. Its Censored of course....


USA i don't knew but EU certainly imprison you for taught crime
about raping other soldiers , well USA army also have such rich history on that and trying to hide it , specially when it come to female soldiers .


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589934111036436480


----------



## Hack-Hook

khansaheeb said:


> Ukrainian official says Iranian ballistic missiles bought by Russia may need to be destroyed at their launch sites
> 
> 
> About 4.5 million Ukrainians are dealing with power outages caused by Russian attacks on civilian infrastructure, according to President Volodymyr Zelensky. Follow live updates here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11 hr 55 min ago
> Ukrainian official says Iranian ballistic missiles bought by Russia may need to be destroyed at their launch sites​From CNN's Julia Kesaieva in Kyiv and Tim Lister
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian Air Force spokesperson Yurii Ihnat holds a briefing in Kyiv, Ukraine, on June 14. (Ukrinform/Shutterstock)
> 
> Ukraine's air force says that newly arrived western air defense systems will help deal with the new threat of Iranian ballistic missiles reportedly being purchased by Russia.
> Yuriy Ihnat, Air Force spokesperson, told a briefing in Kyiv that Ukraine might target the Iranian missiles at their launch sites, which would probably be well inside Russia.
> 
> Ihnat said the Iranian missiles have "a range of 300 and 700 kilometers, which in principle will not create anything new for Ukraine, because [Russian-made] Iskanders were used from the first day of the war."
> "I think both the top military leadership and our partners are working on this issue, looking for effective ways to counter these new threats," Ihnat said.
> He said that the Russians were unable to make progress on the battlefield and had resorted to attacking infrastructure supplying energy and water. "They want to hit energy facilities in the autumn-winter period first of all, because people's lives largely depend on them. This air terrorism will continue by all available means."
> "It is clear that the missiles that will be received from Iran, if it is done, will be used at the energy infrastructure facilities, and [the Russians] will continue to strike with cruise missiles as well."
> CNN reported on Nov. 1 that Iran is preparing to send about 1,000 additional weapons, including short range ballistic missiles and more attack drones, to Russia, citing officials from a western country that closely monitors Iran's weapons program.


he better show Iranian missiles first
Iran delegation as promised went to Europe to investigate the claims that Russia is using Iranian drones in Ukraine , guess what . the Ukrainian delegation didn't bother to show up , show they knew all these claims of Iranian drones are B.s and the Geran-2 is actually is made in Russia based on Iranian design , but why not make the false claims and buy sympathy Between clueless EU and USA masses .

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## thetutle

Bengal71 said:


> If you can't even trust her on simple things like that then that's not a good GF.


yes, in many ways she is not the ideal GF. Cant trust her at all. But thats most women though. 


jhungary said:


> He is right tho, never trust a Russian or Ukrainian, used to date an Ukrainian once, if she is opening her mouth, she is lying, same thing with Russian.
> 
> You don't date Russian or Ukrainian because they are honest, you date them because they are good companion...


Yes, there is more to a relationship than trust. I dont have truth telling competitions with my GF, but rather partake in other activities. 


gambit said:


> I heard that bars in Russia are now filled with mostly women...


I think this has always been the case. And will probably be more so in the future. But having listened to the stories this patriotic young girl tells I have come to feel very sorry for the Russian soldiers who will have to pay the ultimate price for this folly. The conscripts are real and poor and have families and have little else to fall back on. Many struggle through life, trying to make the best with what they've got. It's terrible sad it will end so badly for them. 

I heard about an ex admirer of hers who is now in hospital. He wont say what happened to him, but a young handsome guy, its so tragic. These young men should avoid mobilisation at any cost.


----------



## zectech

Russian slavs live in poverty.

While Putin cronies get rows of Mercedes.






That misery that the Russians are living under is wanted to export to the EU. With Russian Slavs being successful and Germans being poor. And Russian Oligarchs owning and running the economy of Europe.

That is the plan, does Europe want to fight for European success and Europeans running their own affairs, not Putin Oligarchs/other bitcoiners running Germany and Denmark and other EU nations. Exactly how Russian Slavs are living in poverty is the Putin and Trump goal for EU white European EU citizens. This is supported by China and Iran.

This is why you want to bring jobs back from China to Europe. Because the Chinese signed onto the Trump plan to impoverish Europe.



https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/445055-top-official-accuses-trump-putin-of-trying-to-weaken-the-eu/



China is not your friend. China is Putin and Trump.

Chinese 50 cent trolls post article after article in new threads about European unsuccessfulness, hoping this is the new norm as China supports Putin in this goal. This is one of the many reasons why China is Trump.

Make Europe so successful and strong that none can rival Europe. A bully wants to beat up a weak kid. You get that kid working out and much stronger than the bully. Energy independence is vital, including using European coal and nuclear power. Along with renewable clean energy. China is the Trumper bully, along with sidekick Putin.

Russians want to export misery to white Europeans. And want to import success from Europe to Russia. A replacement. Are Europeans willing to fight for themselves. Make Europe economically powerful, militarily powerful and politically powerful. So powerful that Europe is vastly more powerful than each nation in every respect.

Start with energy independence.
Then return jobs back to Europe.
With a booming economy, get out of debt and rebuild your military.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589978983848120321

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> well tow certainly can deal with t-72 and its variant from all sides, i cant vouch it for T-34s that soon come to battle field as I doubt it is validated against them (I heard russian have good Experience with those Tanks). but calling it legendary is a little stretching it as it will probably have problem dealing with more modern tank.
> 
> USA i don't knew but EU certainly imprison you for taught crime
> about raping other soldiers , well USA army also have such rich history on that and trying to hide it , specially when it come to female soldiers .



I'll just leave this here

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## Primus

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I'll just leave this here


NO NO NO NO SO MANY NO. 

You should put a disclaimer for the innocent that want to remain innocent.

My God what the f is wrong with people 🤮

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## Reashot Xigwin

Something to lighten the mood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589925514038611968

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## khansaheeb

Hack-Hook said:


> he better show Iranian missiles first
> Iran delegation as promised went to Europe to investigate the claims that Russia is using Iranian drones in Ukraine , guess what . the Ukrainian delegation didn't bother to show up , show they knew all these claims of Iranian drones are B.s and the Geran-2 is actually is made in Russia based on Iranian design , but why not make the false claims and buy sympathy Between clueless EU and USA masses .


Seems like Ukraine is peddling the Israeli agenda.



BHAN85 said:


> That's not the point.
> 
> The point is call a war in a different way to work around war legislations.
> 
> Change the meaning of words to elude legislations.
> 
> USA invented the term "Preemptive Strike".
> And now Russia invents "Special Military Op".


Just like war on terror, excuse to attack poor nations. Don't see them attacking powerful nations like Russia or China or even India.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Something to lighten the mood
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589925514038611968


in Vietnam war there were draft dodgers , who take photo of themselves having homosexual intercourse or become addict to drugs not to go to Vietnam . wonder if Russian also resort to such tactics or something similar for escaping mobilization ?

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## jhungary

A source of mine told me some Russian unit "Disappeared" in Kherson. 

At least 3 Battalion Battlegroup disappeared in Kherson, they cannot be picked up by SIGINT or any Satellite and they aren't withdrew. Seems like they have gone "Civilian" for some reason. Either they are ready to bolt or trying to ambush the Ukrainian when they come into Kherson.

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Something to lighten the mood
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589925514038611968


now he won't be mobilized as soldier , he will be recruited as mercenary



jhungary said:


> A source of mine told me some Russian unit "Disappeared" in Kherson.
> 
> At least 3 Battalion Battlegroup disappeared in Kherson, they cannot be picked up by SIGINT or any Satellite and they aren't withdrew. Seems like they have gone "Civilian" for some reason. Either they are ready to bolt or trying to ambush the Ukrainian when they come into Kherson.


is there any civilian left in Russian controlled kherson ?


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> now he won't be mobilized as soldier , he will be recruited as mercenary


Well considering Russia is putting Blocking Unit behind the convicts and the mobilised troop on the frontline, I don't think he wanted to be either of those.

Because we all know what Blocking Unit does...

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> That's not the point.
> 
> The point is call a war in a different way to work around war legislations.
> 
> Change the meaning of words to elude legislations.
> 
> USA invented the term "Preemptive Strike".
> And now Russia invents "Special Military Op".


That is not the point.
The US provided valid casus belli, and Russia did not.

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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> A source of mine told me some Russian unit "Disappeared" in Kherson.
> 
> At least 3 Battalion Battlegroup disappeared in Kherson, they cannot be picked up by SIGINT or any Satellite and they aren't withdrew. Seems like they have gone "Civilian" for some reason. Either they are ready to bolt or trying to ambush the Ukrainian when they come into Kherson.


How many soldiers in a battalion.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589867821655552000

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> How many soldiers in a battalion.


400-600

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590052664301101056
damn

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590058702442463232
Those small grenade equipped drones are causing carnage among russian ranks.


----------



## zartosht

Nlaws and javelins being tranferred to Iran (thanks nato)

Iran is providing Russia with 1000s of badly needed pgms (there is no such thing as too much ammo in war)

While Russia helps Iran with satellites and engine tech and UN vetos.

This is a geopolitical nightmare for the west/nato. And its partly thanks to trump. When he pulled out of the deal, the west lost all leverage on Iran. And put Iran in a position where it can continually hit back at the west with nothing to lose

Thank you trump and neocons. Your shortsided a** bending to the zionists is going to geopolitically haunt the west for a long time

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590016586483912705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589978385195085824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589986753804668928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590020891022610432


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590019746635792384

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## Beny Karachun

zartosht said:


> Nlaws and javelins being tranferred to Iran (thanks nato)
> 
> Iran is providing Russia with 1000s of badly needed pgms (there is no such thing as too much ammo in war)
> 
> While Russia helps Iran with satellites and engine tech and UN vetos.
> 
> This is a geopolitical nightmare for the west/nato. And its partly thanks to trump. When he pulled out of the deal, the west lost all leverage on Iran. And put Iran in a position where it can continually hit back at the west with nothing to lose
> 
> Thank you trump and neocons. Your shortsided a** bending to the zionists is going to geopolitically haunt the west for a long time


Crappy Iranian low quality copies don't matter lol, any ATGM facing NATO will face the Trophy system which will ensure the safety of the tank.

Also, Iran is about to get a regime change.

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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> Nlaws and javelins being tranferred to Iran (thanks nato)
> 
> Iran is providing Russia with 1000s of badly needed pgms (there is no such thing as too much ammo in war)
> 
> While Russia helps Iran with satellites and engine tech and UN vetos.
> 
> This is a geopolitical nightmare for the west/nato. And its partly thanks to trump. When he pulled out of the deal, the west lost all leverage on Iran. And put Iran in a position where it can continually hit back at the west with nothing to lose
> 
> Thank you trump and neocons. Your shortsided a** bending to the zionists is going to geopolitically haunt the west for a long time


Russia is quickly losing its status as 2nd strongest military while Nato is stronger then ever with new members and europe re-arming.

meanwhile Iran is wasting its trump card (drone swarm/rocket spam effectiveness and lack of current cheap counters) on ukranian civilians…(nato is watching and learning though…)….while becoming an even greater pariah state which will crumble alone in front of the allied might of Nato if it ever really crosses the line.

Currently however…iran is pre-occupied with beating its women to death over Medieval clothing regulations…

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> Well, then USA popularized the term.
> 
> Anyway it's not the point neither.
> 
> Just if you start a legal war, you dont need to use those strange concepts.
> 
> A normal guy will need just to take a look to a world map to know how it's impossible Iraq could threat USA mainland


A normal guy would know that Law of War allows countries to help friendly nations when they are attacked, so when Iraq occupied Quwait and threatened Saudi Arabia, the US could come to help, and so could many nations based on UNSC resolutions. Once the cease fire was in place, Iraq kept violating the cease fire.
They attacked the US time and time again - and the US replied.
Iraq also tried to assassinate George H.W. Bush.
Both things are valid triggers for terminating the cease fire.

Did Ukraine attack Russia on Russian soil - NO,
Did Ukraine try to assassinate Putin - NO.

There is simply no comparision and yet you desperately try to make things equivalent.



BHAN85 said:


> But a hard brainwashed guy can swallow every stupid bullshit lie. It's like try to reason with a robot, losing time. The robots are feed with electric energy, and the stupid NATO slaves are feed with money, that's the only difference.
> 
> 
> "Preemptive strike" and "Military special op" are just synonymous of aggression war, to avoid intl war legislations.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Beny Karachun said:


> Also, Iran is about to get a regime change.



Those crappy copies have plunged Ukraine into darkness and turned the tide of the war. Those crappy copies have got Israhell spending billions on some defunct iron dome! Stop acting like these crappy copies have no effect! It's pathetic to see!

Been hearing that shit for the past 20 years and nothing has happened! Have you learnt to swim, Bjorn?

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## Beny Karachun

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Those crappy copies have plunged Ukraine into darkness and turned the tide of the war. Those crappy copies have got Israhell spending billions on some defunct iron dome! Stop acting like these crappy copies have not effect! It's pathetic to see!
> 
> Been hearing that shit for the past 20 years and nothing has happened! Have you learnt to swim, Bjorn?


Nothing? Look at Iran burning from the inside, you could guess how many people the Mossad recuited.

It's all accounted for, Israel keeps blowing up Iranians in Syria, keeps killing your generals.

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## Daylamite Warrior

zartosht said:


> Nlaws and javelins being tranferred to Iran (thanks nato)
> 
> Iran is providing Russia with 1000s of badly needed pgms (there is no such thing as too much ammo in war)
> 
> While Russia helps Iran with satellites and engine tech and UN vetos.
> 
> This is a geopolitical nightmare for the west/nato. And its partly thanks to trump. When he pulled out of the deal, the west lost all leverage on Iran. And put Iran in a position where it can continually hit back at the west with nothing to lose
> 
> Thank you trump and neocons. Your shortsided a** bending to the zionists is going to geopolitically haunt the west for a long time



These kalimis don't like it when you spit facts! It's like throwing acid on a piece of rice paper.



Beny Karachun said:


> Nothing? Look at Iran burning from the inside, you could guess how many people the Mossad recuited.
> 
> It's all accounted for, Israel keeps blowing up Iranians in Syria, keeps killing your generals.



Lol Iran is stamping your tick tock army pretty well! Just a riot, nothing special, is it? The government is still here and have plenty of armed police smashing your tick tock trannies into early graves! The funny thing is the massive demonstrations of Iranian civilians coming out showing their support of the Islamic Republic on a weekly basis. Why dont you recruit them, Bjorn?

Either way Iranian crappy copies have your backs to the wall! Your own generals admit that Iran could smoke you at any time! So stop trying to make it sound you have it all figured out, it comes across as small dick energy to me. In case you didnt know, Iranian military are there to fight and die, not cry like your pussy army in 2006 when they got sent to Allah! Iran is still in Syria and Assad is emboldened.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589894534204620802

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590043550217306112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590031725417332736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590035806433210368

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590044940389998592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590013657240727552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589910810557808642

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590058702442463232
> Those small grenade equipped drones are causing carnage among russian ranks.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590093843114127360

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## LeGenD

Cool off guys.

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Cool off guys.


I am cool, I hadn't even interacted with him. And I am not the one who dish out personal insult after saying he don't care about the rating....

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## jhungary

Beny Karachun said:


> Cope


lol, he said that then subsequently bitch about said rating in the next 4 post, then earning another 4.....

He didn't even realise, if he continue with the insult, I will continue to dish out the rating, It's that simple..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589991306574835713

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## Daylamite Warrior

jhungary said:


> LOL, I am confused, so do you care or not care about the negative rating??
> 
> @waz @LeGenD
> 
> Can you take care of this. Thanks.



Where did I make a mention about caring about negative ratings? Are you hallucinating again? Typical reddit armchair shill...smoke another bowl and cope up with something more original!



jhungary said:


> lol, he said that then subsequently bitch about said rating in the next 4 post, then earning another 4.....
> 
> He didn't even realise, if he continue with the insult, I will continue to dish out the rating, It's that simple..



Notice how the mods didnt do anything? LOL you're powerless! Military professional? Didnt know sucking the boys off was a profession in the US Army? Ah actually, it's far worse than that lol

@Hassan Al-Somal 

I dont know, he lied to this forum that he's some professional and he can go around negative rating so he feels better about his micropenis!

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## PakFactor

😃

Let the fighting go and smoke a joint. 
Love one another; only then will humanity prosper.

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## LeGenD

@Daylamite Warrior

Focus on my advice. I am trying to address the problem.


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

LeGenD said:


> @Daylamite Warrior
> 
> Focus on my advice. I am trying to address the problem.



He can't go around negative rating things that don't suit his narrative or are not aimed at him. This is an abuse of power which he doesnt deserve nor has he earnt. If he doesnt stop the negative ratings then that is provocation.

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## PakFactor

LeGenD said:


> @Daylamite Warrior
> 
> Listen to my advice.



@LeGenD Bhai, Remove the negative ratings for him if you can; it was unnecessary.

If you can also positive rate my smiley face two posts above.

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## PakFactor

Daylamite Warrior said:


> @jhungary you are powerless! Lol shill



Bro. Let it go. Let @LeGenD clean it up.

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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> @LeGenD Bhai, Remove the negative ratings for him if you can; it was unnecessary.



well, I had not even started 1 post with him, yet he keep insulting me, as I said, he keep insulting me, I will just keep on giving him a negative rating.

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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> well, I had not even started 1 post with him, yet he keep insulting me, as I said, he keep insulting me, I will just keep on giving him a negative rating. LOL.



I understand, but one was enough, not every post.

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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> I understand, but one was enough, not every post.


I don't know, it's up to the mod to decide.
And I would consider negative rating is getting off lightly, I did this a couple of months ago, just keep badgering one guy, and then I got bannedin less than 6 minutes. Looks like he has some sort of infinite life on presenting in this forum.


----------



## LeGenD

PakFactor said:


> @LeGenD Bhai, Remove the negative ratings for him if you can; it was unnecessary.
> 
> If you can also positive rate my smiley face two posts above.


On it, bro.

Please add a captivating statement on the post that I have rated.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590113990645907456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590121390572998656

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## jhungary

Hmm.......as I said, that's Russian Blocking Battalion at work.


----------



## jhungary

Don't know why Telegram is blocked here, it's intelligence super trove for Russian-Ukrainian war. And sometime you don't have Western source report on the same Telegram Story........

Seems like Russian is starting to shoot their own conscript. A telegram channel said 60% of a unit was killed by "Friendly Fire"









Most Russians killed in Ukraine 'have been killed by friendly fire'


Alexander Khodakovsky, leader of the so-called Donetsk People's Republic's Vostok Battalion, claimed the majority of troops killed since mid-May have died by friendly fire.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590100264530640897


----------



## PakFactor

LeGenD said:


> On it, bro.
> 
> Please add a captivating statement on the post that I have rated.



Done. Thanks bro.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590113180042174464
These guys are wasting so much ammunition.

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## Soldier35

A soldier of the Russian PMC Wagner spoke about the battles in Ukraine near Bakhmut. To complete the picture of what is happening, the video of the battles is combined with real videos of the battles of the Ukrainian army in Bakhmut.






Ukraine received about 30 German ZSU "Gepard". The Gepard self-propelled anti-aircraft gun was adopted by Germany in 1973, and by 2012 all vehicles were decommissioned due to obsolescence. ZSU "Gepard" is the most complex armored vehicle in Germany, the preparation of its crew of 3 people takes the most time from all German armored vehicles. It is worth noting that now there is a problem with the supply of ammunition for this installation, Germany does not make them anymore. "Gepard" can be compared with the Soviet ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" developed in 1964. In terms of the rate of fire, "Gepard" loses to "Shilka", 550 rounds per minute, the rate of fire of "Shilka" is 3400 rounds. But "Gepard" wins in terms of firing range. Gepard is equipped with a search radar with a target detection and tracking range of up to 18 km. On the sides of the tower, 35-mm automatic guns are installed with a firing range of up to 5 km and a height reach of 4 km. Ammunition installation 340 shells for each gun. Gepard is built on the chassis of the Leopard 1 tank, weighs 47 tons and has a top speed of 65 km/h.






Russian reconnaissance group spoke about the battles in Ukraine and mercenaries






Russian Lancet kamikaze drones have become a problem in Ukraine. The number of cases of strikes by these drones is growing every day. For the first time, a marine target, a Project 58155 Gyurza-M boat of the Ukrainian Navy, was hit by a Lancet drone in Ukraine. The video also shows attacks on the Norwegian self-propelled guns M109A3 of the Ukrainian army, one of them exploded ammunition. A blow to the radar station 36D6-M of the S-300 air defense system of Ukraine. For an unknown reason, the 9K35 Strela-10 air defense system of the Ukrainian army did not notice the Lancet drone and was destroyed, the air defense missiles exploded.






The Italian 155-mm FH-70 howitzers received by the Ukrainian army came under attack from the Russian Lancet kamikaze drone.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Don't know why Telegram is blocked here, it's intelligence super trove for Russian-Ukrainian war. And sometime you don't have Western source report on the same Telegram Story........
> 
> Seems like Russian is starting to shoot their own conscript. A telegram channel said 60% of a unit was killed by "Friendly Fire"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Russians killed in Ukraine 'have been killed by friendly fire'
> 
> 
> Alexander Khodakovsky, leader of the so-called Donetsk People's Republic's Vostok Battalion, claimed the majority of troops killed since mid-May have died by friendly fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Russian artillery fire on average 60,000 shells per day during summer offensive. Now about 20,000 per day. Most shells are dumb ammo.
Well, some ammo land on poor Russia soldiers’ heads.
With Russia now acquiring North Korea ammo, the casualties will get higher because NK ammo are even dumber.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589956262183116800

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Russian artillery fire on average 60,000 shells per day during summer offensive. Now about 20,000 per day. Most shells are dumb ammo.
> Well, some ammo land on poor Russia soldiers’ heads.
> With Russia now acquiring North Korea ammo, the casualties will get higher because NK ammo are even dumber.


its not the matter of ammunition being dumb, by what i see if Russia only used krasnopol , they had the same problem, its more personnel who operate them or more exactly the ones who gave them coordination are\dumb and blind and not aware of the battle situation and position of their force


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Russian artillery fire on average 60,000 shells per day during summer offensive. Now about 20,000 per day. Most shells are dumb ammo.
> Well, some ammo land on poor Russia soldiers’ heads.
> With Russia now acquiring North Korea ammo, the casualties will get higher because NK ammo are even dumber.


Well, notice I air quoted "Friendly Fire"

I don't know how dumb an army would have to be to either have 60% of their own troop walking into a wrong side of the field and got shell by your own people, or have 60% of your shot missed and hit your own troop. 

I don't think that's even Russian are capable of on this stupidity. 5%, 10%, maybe. 20%, that's alot but doable, you are talking about 60% lol...That's intentional...


----------



## Vergennes

Viet said:


> Russian artillery fire on average 60,000 shells per day during summer offensive. Now about 20,000 per day. Most shells are dumb ammo.
> Well, some ammo land on poor Russia soldiers’ heads.
> With Russia now acquiring North Korea ammo, the casualties will get higher because NK ammo are even dumber.



16 MSTA S on line during the summer near Izyum. The summer was horror for the Ukrainian armed forces,Russians had total artillery superiority yet Ukrainian lines didn't collapse. I admire so much Ukrainian resilience and Russian army's total incompetence. This superiority was also altered by superior western artillery systems/rounds. Ukrainians need one shell to destroy their objective while Russians need to level an entire area with poor accuracy to hit their objectives.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590273994154209280


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590284676148576256


----------



## Paul2

Hack-Hook said:


> its not the matter of ammunition being dumb, by what i see if Russia only used krasnopol , they had the same problem, its more personnel who operate them or more exactly the ones who gave them coordination are\dumb and blind and not aware of the battle situation and position of their force



The issue is allegedly in the laser designator. A dozen pieces for entire front, and even bigger problem with their batteries.



jhungary said:


> Well, notice I air quoted "Friendly Fire"
> 
> I don't know how dumb an army would have to be to either have 60% of their own troop walking into a wrong side of the field and got shell by your own people, or have 60% of your shot missed and hit your own troop.
> 
> I don't think that's even Russian are capable of on this stupidity. 5%, 10%, maybe. 20%, that's alot but doable, you are talking about 60% lol...That's intentional...



They blew up bridges behind their own troops today. There are well over 2000 on the eastern flank of Kherson front.


----------



## Primus

LeGenD said:


> On it, bro.
> 
> Please add a captivating statement on the post that I have rated.


Can I have a positive rating?



Primus said:


> Can I have a positive rating?


@jhungary why thank you 😊

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> They blew up bridges behind their own troops today. There are well over 2000 on the eastern flank of Kherson front.


Yeah, as I said this morning, some unit had "Disappeared" and they are no where to be found. 

Mostly likely they are the rear guard try to take on the Ukrainian for as long as they can while blending into Kherson Civilian population. Not sure if they will indulge in this tho.

On the other hand, report suggested Ukrainian had pushed into Snihurivka, Russian mayor said they were expelled, Vitaly Kim said they pushed the Russian off, not sure who to believe at this point.


----------



## sammuel

jhungary said:


> On the other hand, report suggested Ukrainian had pushed into Snihurivka, Russian mayor said they were expelled, Vitaly Kim said they pushed the Russian off, not sure who to believe at this point.




" The Ukrainians “managed to gain a foothold on the northern outskirts of Snihurivka along the railway lines,” Kirill Stremousov, deputy head of the Moscow-installed administration in the Kherson region, wrote on Telegram late Tuesday. “The settlement is now in the combat zone,” he said. "









Russia Orders Withdrawal From Kherson, Only Regional Ukrainian Capital It Held


Ukrainian forces have advanced town by town on the city in recent weeks, using long-range artillery to strike bridges and largely cut off thousands of Russian troops in and around the city.




www.wsj.com


----------



## jhungary

sammuel said:


> " The Ukrainians “managed to gain a foothold on the northern outskirts of Snihurivka along the railway lines,” Kirill Stremousov, deputy head of the Moscow-installed administration in the Kherson region, wrote on Telegram late Tuesday. “The settlement is now in the combat zone,” he said. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Orders Withdrawal From Kherson, Only Regional Ukrainian Capital It Held
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces have advanced town by town on the city in recent weeks, using long-range artillery to strike bridges and largely cut off thousands of Russian troops in and around the city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsj.com


Yeah, that's the news I am getting, but nobody knows the extend of the fighting. And the few trusted source I had still have not reported on it. So I am going to keep watching.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590283954309201920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590298513312665601


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590313066142781440


----------



## Vergennes

Even pro russian trolls recognize the situation is somewhat different than "contained". There could be a Russian announcement about Kherson as soon as tonight but unconfirmed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590304267814187009

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590321241575297024


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590328473759154176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590328478733586437

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590329178733174784
things escalate quickly it seems lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590330122535546880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590330603836428289

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590331123262840832


----------



## F-22Raptor

Looking like Kherson will be liberated.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590340697076666368


----------



## LeGenD

@Hassan Al-Somal

Accuracy of statements not withstanding, you made a good effort to show *events* of the other side on the ground such as Russian engagements and hits. You were mature in your conversations and posts in large part. Keep it up.

I would like to see your view of Ukranian battlefield achievements for a change but entirely up to you.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590349684031488000


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590356144861896707

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590359854904119299

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590360973550190594
@F-22Raptor

This didn't age well LMAO @925boy

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590359854904119299
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590360973550190594
> @F-22Raptor



Excellent - Russian Army once again beaten on the battlefield.. I wonder how the Russian handlers on this forum will massage Kherson falling as a victory for mother Russia..

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## LeGenD

@Vergennes 

Kherson falling?


----------



## Vergennes

LeGenD said:


> @Vergennes
> 
> Kherson falling?



Russian MoD ordered the retreat of all Russian forces on the right bank of the Dnipro. Let's see if the retreat will be in good order or as catastrophic as in Kharkiv.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590363323627110401

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## Paul2

Something has definitely happenng


Vergennes said:


> Russian MoD ordered the retreat of all Russian forces on the right bank of the Dnipro. Let's see if the retreat will be in good order or as catastrophic as in Kharkiv.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590363323627110401



It will be a good moment for AFU to count how much Russians theres really were.

40k figure really sounds unbelievable to people on Telegram. They call it Russian mindgames.

Does anybody remember I wrote of news of Russian officers meeting Ukrainian ones in Oleksandrivka?

I noticed, the combat largely died down after that. Did UA side agreed to let the withdraw in peace in exchange for something?

UA career military is really good at keeping mouths shut, unlike territorial units.

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## zartosht

Beny Karachun said:


> Crappy Iranian low quality copies don't matter lol, any ATGM facing NATO will face the Trophy system which will ensure the safety of the tank.
> 
> Also, Iran is about to get a regime change.



You come across as a very immature and low iq person. Your coping mechanism to hard facts is to “lol this sucks. That sucks. Only zionist weapons good west stronk”

Iran has massively improved the american tow (toophan). 







Toophan 1 is the original, while later models have more destructive power deisgned for western tanks

Hezbollah has already humiliated your tanks that were purpose built to be overkill on armor. Zionist bragged it was the most heavily armed tank on earth









Your coping mechanism resembles a 10 year old.
If your getting touched by a rabbi, there are better methods of getting help my friend


----------



## Titanium100

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590359854904119299
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590360973550190594
> @F-22Raptor
> 
> This didn't age well LMAO @925boy
> 
> View attachment 895043



if true significiant set back for the russians


----------



## Mista

Russia to withdraw troops from key city of Kherson


Russia to withdraw troops from key Ukrainian city Kherson, the only regional centre they had captured since invasion began



www.bbc.com


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> things escalate quickly it seems lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590330122535546880



They killed their own.

UA intel found out that the video was recorded few hours prior to his supposed "death"


----------



## Mista

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590359854904119299
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590360973550190594
> @F-22Raptor
> 
> This didn't age well LMAO @925boy
> 
> View attachment 895043



+1 screenshot

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## SIPRA

In Kherson region, Russia seems to be retreating. It appears that Kherson city will go back to Ukraine, in coming days.


----------



## Paitoo

SIPRA said:


> In Kherson region, Russia seems to be retreating. It appears that Kherson city will go back to Ukraine, in coming days.


Russians are getting war weary. Very soon their soldiers will stop seeing any point in this and start losing morale

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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590359854904119299
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590360973550190594
> @F-22Raptor
> 
> This didn't age well LMAO @925boy
> 
> View attachment 895043


Wouldnt he remove his account if wrong or something? 🤣.

but its a good reminder on how “worthwhile” his input on battlefield analysis is….



Anyway..slava ukraini, cherson will finally be liberated soon!

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## SIPRA

Paitoo said:


> Russians are getting war weary. Very soon their soldiers will stop seeing any point in this and start losing morale



Yes. That seems to be the case.

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## ZeGerman

Unfortunately it seems again russians are managing to flee without massive KIA. (Will lose alot of heavy material again though)

I guess assaulting over flat land was proving to costly for AFU that they did not go for encirclement?


----------



## sammuel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590369886441975808

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590363629597372417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590364844053925888
Russia has now officially lost the Battle of Kherson!

Glory to Ukraine!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590368333727424512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590364603502202885
Biggest victory for Ukraine after the Battle of Kyiv!

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## BHAN85

This man speaks a lot with his faces, he doesnt need to talk.

Maybe that's the reason he's defence minister, he's the one who can give Putin bad news without use words.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590379337819492353

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590368333727424512
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590364603502202885
> Biggest victory for Ukraine after the Battle of Kyiv!


Huge victory. Huge. 

This Shoigu guy barely speaks russian. He kind of mumbles it, Or its just a strange accent that his ethnic group have.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> its not the matter of ammunition being dumb, by what i see if Russia only used krasnopol , they had the same problem, its more personnel who operate them or more exactly the ones who gave them coordination are\dumb and blind and not aware of the battle situation and position of their force


Russia’s artillery has the tactic of WW1. Let’s say if an artillery unit is given the order to bombard an area of one square mile, then they fire thousands of shells in close distant in series until the area is turned into moon landscape.
When everything then becomes rubbe Russia infantry will storm enemy positions.
No joke, the former NATO commander for Europe says the Russia army stands still, it has not developed since WW1.
Probably that’s Putin’s most favorite tactic. After me is nothing.


----------



## zartosht

If Russia chooses to leave kherson it will be a very wise move militarily. The strategic picture is improving on Russia side daily. 

Ukies have already thrown everything the have at this and are literally cosncripting 60 year olds. 

Meanwhile Russia is patiently training another million men for a winter blitzkrieg anyone with military knowledge knows is coming

And there is no way in hell nato or kiev regime can muster anything to stop it. Hense they keep throwing wave after wave of young stupid ukies to get shredded on open fields that the Russians already have artillery aimed on. 

The 100k Russians were militarily speaking the advance guard of the army. The ukies lost 25% of their country and 90% of their army to themm. Now they will soon face the main force. And if your a nato fan, look away cause its going to be very ugly

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## Reashot Xigwin

925boy said:


> Let us know when this day comes!
> 
> Ukranians keep dying at a fast rate, and they will never take Kherson, screenshot this. lol. THe war momentum has obviously shifted back in Russia's favor.



I know I kept this for a reason 😁

Man I been using this a lot lately & congrats to the Democrats too I guess.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, notice I air quoted "Friendly Fire"
> 
> I don't know how dumb an army would have to be to either have 60% of their own troop walking into a wrong side of the field and got shell by your own people, or have 60% of your shot missed and hit your own troop.
> 
> I don't think that's even Russian are capable of on this stupidity. 5%, 10%, maybe. 20%, that's alot but doable, you are talking about 60% lol...That's intentional...


That’s incompetent high five. 60 percent is incredible high.
Not only Russia artillery has a problem with accuracy. Russia aviation has the same problem. Russia aircraft has the main role of ground support. To avoid Ukraine air defense Russia bombers must fly deep. And then when they drop bombs, then well, some can land on own troops.
Interesting to know if the diseased families get the same benefits when they are killed by own bombs.


----------



## Mista

zartosht said:


> If Russia chooses to leave kherson it will be a very wise move militarily.

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## Reashot Xigwin

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590379337819492353


Start by removing Russian troops everywhere that includes Crimea. Then they can negotiate.

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## thetutle

zartosht said:


> If Russia chooses to leave kherson it will be a very wise move militarily. The strategic picture is improving on Russia side daily.


Imagine the strong strategic picture of russia if it withdraws from ukraine completely. It will be even more powerful.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590390975272169474

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## zartosht

Mrc said:


> Its a private enterprise for those who don't know and will crash the thread abusing military





Mista said:


> View attachment 895063





thetutle said:


> Imagine the strong strategic picture of russia if it withdraws from ukraine completely. It will be even more powerful.



I hope your twitter memes will be strong enough to stop the coming Russian blitzkrieg. Cause the ukie cannon fodder certainly wont be.

Imagine thinking your winning when you are conscripting 60 year olds. Lost 25% of your country and almost certainly all the best and well trained troops. While the enemy is just mobilizing. 

This reminds of the famous chuvalo ali fight. Chuvalo knocked ali down when ali was toying with him jn the early round. He went excitedly to his trainer telling him i knocked out muhammad ali!!

His trainer though was not sharing in his enthusiasm. Responding something like “i think you just woke him up and got him mad”

Ali then proceeded to absolutely punish chuvalo in every round. Beating the shit out of him but deliberatley not going for a KO.

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## Vergennes

zartosht said:


> I hope your twitter memes will be strong enough to stop the coming Russian blitzkrieg. Cause the ukie cannon fodder certainly wont be.
> 
> Imagine thinking your winning when you are conscripting 60 year olds. Lost 25% of your country and almost certainly all the best and well trained troops. While the enemy is just mobilizing.
> 
> This reminds of the famous chuvalo ali fight. Chuvalo knocked ali down when ali was toying with him jn the early round. He went excitedly to his trainer telling him i knocked out muhammad ali!!
> 
> His trainer though was not sharing in his enthusiasm. Responding something like “i think you just woke him up and got him mad”
> 
> Ali then proceeded to absolutely punish chuvalo in every round. Beating the shit out of him but deliberatley not going for a KO.



LMAO even Russian military analysts are realizing how much their situation in Ukraine is fcked up but you still have the usual bootlickers full on copium telling us how Russia will conduct biltzkrieg and other fairy tales.

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590359854904119299
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590360973550190594
> @F-22Raptor
> 
> This didn't age well LMAO @925boy
> 
> View attachment 895043





Mista said:


> +1 screenshot
> 
> View attachment 895050


What do you expect??

I talked facts and military tactics, he talks fanboyism.

The force is nigh on this one.......

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## zartosht

Vergennes said:


> LMAO even Russian military analysts are realizing how much their situation in Ukraine is fcked up but you still have the usual bootlickers full on copium telling us how Russia will conduct biltzkrieg and other fairy tales.



The new russian general literally said kherso. Situation was untenable until mobilization finished on the first day on the job. You have flat territory surrounded by the enemy on one side and a river to the other, with hard suply lines

Russians should have withdrawn earlier, though they probably couldnt resist inflixting heavy casualties on attacking ukies, and letting them take maximum punishment before what (even western analysts are saying) is a orderly Russian withdrawl.

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## Beny Karachun

zartosht said:


> The new russian general literally said kherso. Situation was untenable until mobilization finished on the first day on the job. You have flat territory surrounded by the enemy on one side and a river to the other, with hard suply lines
> 
> Russians should have withdrawn earlier, though they probably couldnt resist inflixting heavy casualties on attacking ukies, and letting them take maximum lunaihment before what (even western analysts are saying) is a orderly Russian withdrawl.


Lol, Russia just continues to lose land, Russia annexed Kherson, that means a Russian city is about to get conquered lol

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## thetutle

zartosht said:


> Imagine thinking your winning when you are conscripting 60 year olds. Lost 25% of your country and almost certainly all the best and well trained troops. While the enemy is just mobilizing.


If Ukranians can take Kherson with 60 year olds imagine what they will do with younger soldiers. 

Anyway lets see what Scott Ritter said about Kherson a couple of weeks ago. 






Yeah, thats what the military expert said. hmmmm

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> That’s incompetent high five. 60 percent is incredible high.
> Not only Russia artillery has a problem with accuracy. Russia aviation has the same problem. Russia aircraft has the main role of ground support. To avoid Ukraine air defense Russia bombers must fly deep. And then when they drop bombs, then well, some can land on own troops.
> Interesting to know if the diseased families get the same benefits when they are killed by own bombs.


lol, again, it's not incompetent if you reach 60% error, it's intentional...

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol, Russia just continues to lose land, Russia annexed Kherson, that means a Russian city is about to get conquered lol


Sovereign russian territory is about to be conquered by a foreign power and there is not much they can do. Perhaps take it to the UN?

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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> If Russia chooses to leave kherson it will be a very wise move militarily. The strategic picture is improving on Russia side daily.
> 
> Ukies have already thrown everything the have at this and are literally cosncripting 60 year olds.
> 
> Meanwhile Russia is patiently training another million men for a winter blitzkrieg anyone with military knowledge knows is coming
> 
> And there is no way in hell nato or kiev regime can muster anything to stop it. Hense they keep throwing wave after wave of young stupid ukies to get shredded on open fields that the Russians already have artillery aimed on.
> 
> The 100k Russians were militarily speaking the advance guard of the army. The ukies lost 25% of their country and 90% of their army to themm. Now they will soon face the main force. And if your a nato fan, look away cause its going to be very ugly


Cope more. 

We have been hearing this “russia victor!” trash from you since the very beginning. 
In meantime the 3day operation turns into almost a year, and now russia continues to have to give up huge chunks of land and material. 

Keep eye on svatove and zaporizhia where russia is gonna be pushed next.

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## jhungary

zartosht said:


> I hope your twitter memes will be strong enough to stop the coming Russian blitzkrieg. Cause the ukie cannon fodder certainly wont be.
> 
> Imagine thinking your winning when you are conscripting 60 year olds. Lost 25% of your country and almost certainly all the best and well trained troops. While the enemy is just mobilizing.
> 
> This reminds of the famous chuvalo ali fight. Chuvalo knocked ali down when ali was toying with him jn the early round. He went excitedly to his trainer telling him i knocked out muhammad ali!!
> 
> His trainer though was not sharing in his enthusiasm. Responding something like “i think you just woke him up and got him mad”
> 
> Ali then proceeded to absolutely punish chuvalo in every round. Beating the shit out of him but deliberatley not going for a KO.


I know i had HAHA it on the original post. But

HAHA.....

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## thetutle

I'm beginning to think Russian attack on Kherson was just a diversion. They never wanted it in the first place, I think its brilliant military strategy to confuse the west and make Scott Ritter sound like an idiot.

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## Reashot Xigwin

For everybody's sake. I hope the russian doesn't start negotiations. It's in everybody best interest (including the Russians) to see the war keep going & the Russian State disintegrated over this. If we can also see Putin getting the mussolini treatment then it's a bonus. 

Ukraine is way too good they better slow down & kill as many Russians as they could before the war end. 

Not every day you hear that slaughtering people is the better option.

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> Russian MoD ordered the retreat of all Russian forces on the right bank of the Dnipro. Let's see if the retreat will be in good order or as catastrophic as in Kharkiv.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590363323627110401


I said it weeks ago. Russia troops will retreat because there is no other option. Ukraine artillery knows no mercy. What can they do with no ammo, no foods, no water, no fuels? Power is off, everything in darkness.
After they looted Kherson they leave.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I'm beginning to think Russian attack on Kherson was just a diversion. They never wanted it in the first place, I think its brilliant military strategy to confuse the west and make Scott Ritter sound like an idiot.


The entire operation is a farce, it's only aimed to steal the precious washing machine from Ukraine.

Russia should rename this Special Military Operation to

*OPERATION WASHING MACHINE*

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## The SC

thetutle said:


> I'm beginning to think Russian attack on Kherson was just a diversion. They never wanted it in the first place, I think its brilliant military strategy to confuse the west and make Scott Ritter sound like an idiot.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590385471825186817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590386875906129920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590309764470550530
"An adviser to the Ukrainian president told Reuters that it is too early to talk about the withdrawal of Russian troops from Kherson"
@RWApodcast


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## Reashot Xigwin

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590385471825186817
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590386875906129920

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590388452419592193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590309770581643264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590303108894457861

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## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590385471825186817
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590386875906129920


Whoever wrote this have no idea how Military or War works.

There are NOTHING, no BUND and BUMD on the other side of Dnieper River, only farmland, which mean it is open ground for Artillery. And now the Artillery is in Ukrainian favour, which mean they can't really hold anywhere East of Dnieper except the choke point in the entry of Crimea.

Not to mention leave west of Dnieper would mean Russia also have to forego Nova Kakovka, that's where the water and electricity for Crimea come from......

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590412987663527936

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## The SC

There must be a deal to evacuate the West side of Khersan..


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## Valar.

Hi everyone, I am a lay man regarding this ongoing conflict.

So, can somebody please answer my 2 basic questions:
1. What is the objective of this special military operation?
2. How long this special operation is estimated to last? 

Thanks in advance.

PS: Please no trolling.


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## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> Whoever wrote this have no idea how Military or War works.
> 
> There are NOTHING, no BUND and BUMD on the other side of Dnieper River, only farmland, which mean it is open ground for Artillery. And now the Artillery is in Ukrainian favour, which mean they can't really hold anywhere East of Dnieper except the choke point in the entry of Crimea.
> 
> Not to mention leave west of Dnieper would mean Russia also have to forego Nova Kakovka, that's where the water and electricity for Crimea come from......


Some tend to ignore the fact that the donations of western artillery out range russian artillery. They might be smaller in numbers, but given enough time, range and precision is giving Ukraine the upper hand. Some analysts even complain about Ukraine not making full use of this artillery advantage during offensive operations already.

Do you know for sure if Ukraine is able to deny Crimea access to the water from Dnieper from the west side? I still dont see how they could possibly do that from the west bank.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590424189403811841


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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> There must be a deal to evacuate the West side of Khersan..


the deal is the fact that Russia is stuck in 70s


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## Paul2

Valar. said:


> Hi everyone, I am a lay man regarding this ongoing conflict.
> 
> So, can somebody please answer my 2 basic questions:
> 1. What is the objective of this special military operation?
> 2. How long this special operation is estimated to last?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> PS: Please no trolling.



No trolling, but, in my circles, we now side with the opinion that Putin launched an invasion being fully aware that he can't win.

Everybody now talks of Putin "miscalculating" while Russians had thousands of agents in Ukraine, and internal spies inside their own military, who know the terrible state of Russian military procurement.


Putin knew that he had nowhere near the resources needed.

His objective from the start was to force the West into signing another Minsk agreement. He was betting everything on that.

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## Viet

Valar. said:


> Hi everyone, I am a lay man regarding this ongoing conflict.
> 
> So, can somebody please answer my 2 basic questions:
> 1. What is the objective of this special military operation?
> 2. How long this special operation is estimated to last?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> PS: Please no trolling.


1/ initially Putin wants to denazi the population, now he trying to desatanize it, after he realized the first goal fails.

2/ can be over tomorrow.

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590424189403811841



It would be interesting to see what they are forced to leave behind - esp the heavy equipment.

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## Viet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589232982329421824

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590431514558627841

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590412987663527936



Russians will find it impossible to cross back over the river in the future. Ukraine can setup smaller defensive forces and focus the bulk of its fighting force on a different front, most likely to break the land bridge between Russia and Crimea in half.

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## Ali_Baba

Turkey is the real winner of Putin's war in Ukraine


With Russia’s influence in tatters across Europe and Central Asia, Erdogan has his sights set on moving in to fill the vacuum




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590434259424055296

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590432150243139585

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590421932847296513

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590448693202722816


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## aziqbal

I think Russia has lost way too much men and material 

it was never sustainable to lose this much equipment and resources 

its not WWII you cannot win wars by outbuilding military equipment 

at some point you need to come into the 21st century 

looking at the Russian Army it was a 1980s army at best 

tactics were even worse, they never made use of even their best equipment like the Su35 and Su34 aircraft 

T90 and Terminators were rolled out into forest without infantry 

this is exactly how not to fight a war

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## Ali_Baba

The Battle of Kherson is over.

where will Ukraine focus its military forces next?


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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> The Battle of Kherson is over.
> 
> where will Ukraine focus its military forces next?



Ukraine needs to strike towards Melitopol or Mauripol and split Russian forces from east and south

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## jhungary

Valar. said:


> Hi everyone, I am a lay man regarding this ongoing conflict.
> 
> So, can somebody please answer my 2 basic questions:
> 1. What is the objective of this special military operation?
> 2. How long this special operation is estimated to last?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> PS: Please no trolling.



1.) Depends on who you are or what were you leaning.

If you are a Russian Supporter and buy what Putin sell, then the War in Ukraine is for Russian brother to "Liberate" the little brother Ukraine from the Evil West. And to rid of Ukrainian Nationalism because there are no Ukrainian identity, as they are little Russian.

If you are a Western Supporter or have a Western view, the reason for this Special Military Operation is to for Putin to divert from the uncertainty of the future in Russia after COVID setback (It was said to be the worse year in Russia before this war, so now they can blame Western Sanction instead of their own incompetency) Also Eastern Ukraine is resource rich county, it's the Russian aim to take control of Eastern Ukraine.

2.) Don't know. Depends on whether or not Russia have enough fun in Ukraine or when Ukraine will join a binding Alliance like NATO, the War will only stop then. Because if not, even if Russia is beaten back this time, they already have that view that "Ukraine Does Not Actually Exist" then they will come again in maybe 2 or 3 years after they recover from this current war. And then the West will help Ukraine again, they may or may not been able to beat them off, and then it loop gain in a High-Low-High intensity conflict. Until either Russia loses the taste or Ukraine joined NATO.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Every rusky supporters needs to be put on suicide watch right now. After the Copium comes the Ropium after all.
> View attachment 895078



They are going to need Oxygen instead of Copium after this......It's not longer enough if they just rely on Copium....



MeFishToo said:


> Some tend to ignore the fact that the donations of western artillery out range russian artillery. They might be smaller in numbers, but given enough time, range and precision is giving Ukraine the upper hand. Some analysts even complain about Ukraine not making full use of this artillery advantage during offensive operations already.
> 
> Do you know for sure if Ukraine is able to deny Crimea access to the water from Dnieper from the west side? I still dont see how they could possibly do that from the west bank.




Russian Artillery already a non-factor since September, the incoming rounds is about the same as outgoing for the Ukrainian. And the fact that Russia have to buy sub-par munition from North Korea says a lot on their ready to use stock. Russia is hurting badly in this war militarily, they just don't tell anyone about it. 

Yes, if Russia loses Nova Kakokva, it dam up the fresh water from the Dnieper, Ukraine can stop that supply and then Russia will need to either desalinate sea water or truck drinkable water to Crimea. This is going be bad for the already damaged Kerch Bridge.

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> well you say it yourself , western population . did people in any area of Syria voted for independence ?
> and those Iran helped Syria fight was a cozy alliance of 96 nations rejects , antisocial , head-choppers and cannibals
> why they refused Asad offer to held an election by international observers and let people decide , and they said no , they won't accept any election if Assad participate in it ?


And thats the whole weakness of the argument: Syria is not a kingdom. Because Hafiz had power, does not mean it should be handed me down. Thats certainly Iran's spiritual leader is considering. Passing power to the next son is not worthy of elections. This is what threw Egypt out of wack after Mubarak. Next you are going to say MBS held elections in Saudi Arabia and the world was against it.

Feel free to counter, but I am more interested in talking tactics and weapons in the war and note the moral debate of who is right and how is morally wrong. There no rights or wrongs in the Ukraine war and both NATO and Russia have blood in their hands going back 150 years. What matters is how they use the tactics and weapons to defeat each other.


----------



## aviator_fan

zartosht said:


> You come across as a very immature and low iq person. Your coping mechanism to hard facts is to “lol this sucks. That sucks. Only zionist weapons good west stronk”
> 
> Iran has massively improved the american tow (toophan).
> 
> View attachment 895046
> 
> 
> Toophan 1 is the original, while later models have more destructive power deisgned for western tanks
> 
> Hezbollah has already humiliated your tanks that were purpose built to be overkill on armor. Zionist bragged it was the most heavily armed tank on earth
> 
> View attachment 895047
> View attachment 895048
> 
> 
> Your coping mechanism resembles a 10 year old.
> If your getting touched by a rabbi, there are better methods of getting help my friend


Can you create a 'How Iran is supreme and Israel is shivering' thread. This is not an Iranian forum so you won't be shot for expressing yourself. And leave this thread to Ukraine battle. I will gladly join the thread and learn all the times the Israelis have been defeated and how they have reduced in size as a country over that period ( I am not a fan of Israel and I wish they had lost some or all of the battles. But I also not a fan of fake supremecy of Iran either )



zartosht said:


> If Russia chooses to leave kherson it will be a very wise move militarily. The strategic picture is improving on Russia side daily.


Baghdad Bob unmasked. This strategic picture improving daily sounds like one of these famous quotes from 2003:


"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"
"My feelings, as usual, we will slaughter them all."
"Our initial assessment is that they will all die."
"No I am not scared and neither should you be!"
"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."
"They're not even [within] 100 miles [of Baghdad]. They are not in any place. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion ... they are trying to sell to the others an illusion."
"Faltering forces of infidels cannot just enter a country of 26 million people and lay besiege to them! They are the ones who will find themselves under siege. Therefore, in reality, whatever this miserable Rumsfeld has been saying, he was talking about his own forces. Now even the American command is under siege."




zartosht said:


> Ukies have already thrown everything the have at this and are literally cosncripting 60 year olds.
> 
> Meanwhile Russia is patiently training another million men for a winter blitzkrieg anyone with military knowledge knows is coming
> 
> And there is no way in hell nato or kiev regime can muster anything to stop it. Hense they keep throwing wave after wave of young stupid ukies to get shredded on open fields that the Russians already have artillery aimed on.
> 
> The 100k Russians were militarily speaking the advance guard of the army. The ukies lost 25% of their country and 90% of their army to themm. Now they will soon face the main force. And if your a nato fan, look away cause its going to be very ugly





thetutle said:


> I'm beginning to think Russian attack on Kherson was just a diversion. They never wanted it in the first place, I think its brilliant military strategy to confuse the west and make Scott Ritter sound like an idiot.


The Iranian weapons have proven their superiority by keeping Ukraine movement in check just like they deter Israel from expansion of Jewish territories and hold on to sovereign Syrian territory of Golan. This is a strategic withdrawal , i Understand of course and this withdrawal goes all the way to Moscow before Russia makes a come back stronger than ever.

We should just wait and see, for sure.

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## 925boy

aziqbal said:


> I think Russia has lost way too much men and material
> 
> it was never sustainable to lose this much equipment and resources
> 
> its not WWII you cannot win wars by outbuilding military equipment
> 
> at some point you need to come into the 21st century
> 
> looking at the Russian Army it was a 1980s army at best
> 
> tactics were even worse, they never made use of even their best equipment like the Su35 and Su34 aircraft
> 
> T90 and Terminators were rolled out into forest without infantry
> 
> this is exactly how not to fight a war


this sounds like a 180 degree turn on the war by you- what happened?

Btw i saw a telegram post saying Ukraine lost 12,000 soldiers in October 2022 alone. wow. Will Ukraine really be aable to hold onto all its land in East Ukraine? this war is far from over, thats just the fact, but if Russia will actually retreat from Kherson, and Ukraine takes it, then Ukraine has to get that credit for that move and reoccupation of their land, but then again, how that affect and fit into the larger picture of the overall war? What if Russia goes now to take Odessa or incursion from Belarus? THis war is just so fluid that i dont think these moves are affecting the end results or situation of the war.


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## Vergennes

925boy said:


> this sounds like a 180 degree turn on the war by you- what happened?
> 
> Btw i saw a telegram post saying Ukraine lost 12,000 soldiers in October 2022 alone. wow. Will Ukraine really be aable to hold onto all its land in East Ukraine? this war is far from over, thats just the fact, but if Russia will actually retreat from Kherson, and Ukraine takes it, then Ukraine has to get that credit for that move and reoccupation of their land, but then again, how that affect and fit into the larger picture of the overall war? What if Russia goes now to take Odessa or incursion from Belarus? THis war is just so fluid that i dont think these moves are affecting the end results or situation of the war.



Not even the Russians military bloggers believe the BS of their MoD anymore. Just like they destroyed more Himars than delivered and destroyed 300% of the Ukrainian air force and still did not achieve air superiority after nearly 9 months of war. 90% of Ukraine has been "demilitarized" yet they are forcing the Russians to "gesture of goodwill" on several fronts.

Reality is despite the so called "mobilization" Russia continues to lose territory,only sending untrained and under equipped cannon fodder to try to plug the holes or slow down the Ukrainians in waves after waves attacks. Reality is Ukrainians have won the attrition war on the Kherson front and Russian position became hard to hold. Reality on the ground is Ukraine is on the offensive while Russia is on the defensive. Once the Russians are thrown out of Kherson Ukrainians can free up forces to the east and the south towards melitopol or mariupol.

Capturing other areas are a pipe dreams,holding current ones would be a good start at least.

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine needs to strike towards Melitopol or Mauripol and split Russian forces from east and south


It would make sense trying to isolate Crimea. But I guess Ukraine would almost be able to do that by holding Kherson, since 2 of 3 major roads out of Crimea would be within striking distance for the ukrainians from the west bank of Dnieper river.
Russia is going to free up most of its capable airborne forces mostly being wasted in Kherson, 7, 76 airborne Division and 11, 83 Brigade. If the russian MOD has some sanity left, they are going to use those mobile forces to counter any ukrainian initiatives left in the near future. But Ukraine is going to free up 8-10 brigades when Russia leaves the west bank, battle hardened, ready to conquer the world.
No matter the russian mobilization, Russia is facing dedicated reinforced ukrainians all over the fronline - there are no easy wins left for Russia. Only hardship.

Ukraine just need a constant inflow of western artillery and airdefence system to keep the status quo, and let ukrainian ingenuity (with some NATO help during offensive operations) exploit russian weaknesses, forcing yet another retreat somewhere, be it north, east or south. I personally want to see Russia retreat from the Zaporizhzia plant.

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> this sounds like a 180 degree turn on the war by you- what happened?
> 
> Btw i saw a telegram post saying Ukraine lost 12,000 soldiers in October 2022 alone. wow. Will Ukraine really be aable to hold onto all its land in East Ukraine? this war is far from over, thats just the fact, but if Russia will actually retreat from Kherson, and Ukraine takes it, then Ukraine has to get that credit for that move and reoccupation of their land, but then again, how that affect and fit into the larger picture of the overall war? What if Russia goes now to take Odessa or incursion from Belarus? THis war is just so fluid that i dont think these moves are affecting the end results or situation of the war.


Russia going to take Odessa after leaving Kherson?? Like how? They cant even move a ship within 150 km of ukrainian held shores. And forget about Russia all of a sudden invading from Belarus. They couldnt with a hundred thousends when Ukraine were unprepared. Now theyre facing destroyed bridges and defensive positions saturated with atgms and manpads. Those mobilzed troops would face a wall crossing the border.

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## PakFactor

We need another mobilization.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590496954106068992

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## jhungary

925boy said:


> this sounds like a 180 degree turn on the war by you- what happened?
> 
> Btw i saw a telegram post saying Ukraine lost 12,000 soldiers in October 2022 alone. wow. Will Ukraine really be aable to hold onto all its land in East Ukraine? this war is far from over, thats just the fact, but if Russia will actually retreat from Kherson, and Ukraine takes it, then Ukraine has to get that credit for that move and reoccupation of their land, but then again, how that affect and fit into the larger picture of the overall war? What if Russia goes now to take Odessa or incursion from Belarus? THis war is just so fluid that i dont think these moves are affecting the end results or situation of the war.


Sure, Ukraine loses 12000 men a month, is that the reason why Russia gives up the entire Left Bank in Kherson because they lose 12000 men a month? Crap, they even have 300,000 mobilised troop on the line, and you are telling me they can't take on an Army that lose 12000 active soldier every month?



F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine needs to strike towards Melitopol or Mauripol and split Russian forces from east and south


As I said with @Paul2 there are an unbalance of Ukrainian force stacked around the direction on Tormak. 6 Brigade strength last I reported around 1 month ago. Probably more now, And back then I predicted if and when Ukrainian took Kherson, that force is moving South into Tormak and directly toward Melitopol and eventually control the other choke point toward Crimea.

Now let see if this is the case here.



jhungary said:


> Think they moved 2 National Guard Bigrade and a Special Force Battalion to the region.
> 
> I don't know if they were trying to cut into Melitopol, but you don't need 4 Brigade on that line as there were already 2 TDF brigade in the area.
> 
> On the other hand, news report National Guard Brigade and Security Police regiment had moved up from Kramatosk and Sloviansk now in Drobysheve and Lyman. Which mean the Regular Brigade had moved on.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590474674999558145

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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> We need another mobilization.


We need a do over...

Putin need to talk to Zelenskyy and ask if he can re-invade his country again, and then hopefully do better this time....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590500778623766530

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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> We need a do over...
> 
> Putin need to talk to Zelenskyy and ask if he can re-invade his country again, and then hopefully do better this time....



That to. Haha


----------



## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> That to. Haha


Seriously, the situation in Ukraine can't really be salvaged, keep dumping mobilised troop in place won't change anything, tey need time to rearm, regroup and retrain their troop before they make another big push. 

They may as well, just withdraw everywhere and then regroup and come back after winter...

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## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590469095077871617
More funding for slava


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## Shawnee




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590482699403206656

Russian losses now exceed 7,700

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## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590377689487409153
Smarter people get more worried


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590377691391610880


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## sammuel

~


I think that is the most responsible comment on the situation in Kherson , so far :



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590379076464041984
I find it puzzling that the Russians are coming out with those retreat statements.

If they are retreating , what is the purpose does it serve to let your enemy know your intentions ?

And if they are not retreating , think what such announcement do to their troops moral . . .

~


----------



## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> I think that is the most responsible comment on the situation in Kherson , so far :
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590379076464041984
> I find it puzzling that the Russians are coming out with those retreat statements.
> 
> If they are retreating , what is the purpose does it serve to let your enemy know your intentions ?
> 
> And if they are not retreating , think what such announcement do to their troops moral . . .
> 
> ~


It's called draw out and crush. `Ukrainians move forward and the Russian drones and artillery will pick them off. The remnant forces will be surrounded and pounded with a surprise counter attack.


----------



## F-22Raptor

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> I think that is the most responsible comment on the situation in Kherson , so far :
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590379076464041984
> I find it puzzling that the Russians are coming out with those retreat statements.
> 
> If they are retreating , what is the purpose does it serve to let your enemy know your intentions ?
> 
> And if they are not retreating , think what such announcement do to their troops moral . . .
> 
> ~



Gen Milley confirmed Russias retreat but said it could take weeks.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590563924771864576

The Pentagon assesses Russia has lost half of its main battle tanks

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590563924771864576
> 
> The Pentagon assesses Russia has lost half of its main battle tanks


Probably more because the mass of Russia T72, T80, T90 are gone. What remaining I doubt they can even attack Slovenia. Russia conventional army is destroyed.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590457496405098496
The US has known for some time Russia would retreat from Kherson


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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> Seriously, the situation in Ukraine can't really be salvaged, keep dumping mobilised troop in place won't change anything, tey need time to rearm, regroup and retrain their troop before they make another big push.
> 
> They may as well, just withdraw everywhere and then regroup and come back after winter...



Honestly, even after regrouping, training, and arming, it’s no good for the Russians. Ukraine is armed to the teeth, and the worst enemy you can fight is the one that is fully alert and analyzing all threat parameters. 

The Russians are emperors without clothes. 

This war is lost, and Russia is relegated to local power, not even a regional one. 

The US also played a risky game cornering Russian and calling its bluff, and succeeded and effectively showed the Europeans had no clothes. Had it not been for US arms, Intel, etc., and NATO cover, they would've been spanked around.

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## A.P. Richelieu

aviator_fan said:


> Can you create a 'How Iran is supreme and Israel is shivering' thread. This is not an Iranian forum so you won't be shot for expressing yourself. And leave this thread to Ukraine battle. I will gladly join the thread and learn all the times the Israelis have been defeated and how they have reduced in size as a country over that period ( I am not a fan of Israel and I wish they had lost some or all of the battles. But I also not a fan of fake supremecy of Iran either )
> 
> 
> Baghdad Bob unmasked. This strategic picture improving daily sounds like one of these famous quotes from 2003:
> 
> 
> "There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"
> "My feelings, as usual, we will slaughter them all."
> "Our initial assessment is that they will all die."
> "No I am not scared and neither should you be!"
> "We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."
> "They're not even [within] 100 miles [of Baghdad]. They are not in any place. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion ... they are trying to sell to the others an illusion."
> "Faltering forces of infidels cannot just enter a country of 26 million people and lay besiege to them! They are the ones who will find themselves under siege. Therefore, in reality, whatever this miserable Rumsfeld has been saying, he was talking about his own forces. Now even the American command is under siege."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Iranian weapons have proven their superiority by keeping Ukraine movement in check just like they deter Israel from expansion of Jewish territories and hold on to sovereign Syrian territory of Golan. This is a strategic withdrawal , i Understand of course and this withdrawal goes all the way to Moscow before Russia makes a come back stronger than ever.
> 
> We should just wait and see, for sure.



A better word is ”Frontbegradigung”. A popular German tactic used on the Eastern front from 1943 and onwards. Gives the right context.

Im Zweiten Weltkrieg bekam „Frontbegradigung“ eine etwas andere Bedeutung. Der Begriff wurde – vor allem in der zweiten Hälfte des Krieges – zum Euphemismus für einen vom Gegner erzwungenen Rückzug der deutschen Truppen.

During World War II, "front straightening" took on a slightly different meaning. The term became – especially in the second half of the war – a euphemism for a retreat of German troops forced by the enemy.


----------



## jhungary

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> I think that is the most responsible comment on the situation in Kherson , so far :
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590379076464041984
> I find it puzzling that the Russians are coming out with those retreat statements.
> 
> If they are retreating , what is the purpose does it serve to let your enemy know your intentions ?
> 
> And if they are not retreating , think what such announcement do to their troops moral . . .
> 
> ~


A few days ago, Ukrainian intelligence lost track of a few Units within the City of Kherson, those unit weren't withdrawn so the logical explanation is that they ditched their uniform and equipment and blend into the civilian population. 

What intel suggest is that they are going to use those people and ambush the Ukrainian troop in the city when the Ukrainian approach the city, and have it capture on camera or blog or anything that suggesting Ukrainian is fighting Ukrainian. That is for propaganda value. That is what the SBU suggest the likely motive. 

Russia knows Kherson is lost, because there is no way to supply Kherson and anywhere Northwest of Dnieper River. That way at least they can use Kherson for something. 

That is why Ukrainian is taking their time to approach Kherson and they are mindful that Russian straggler would stay behind and create issue, most likely they will be sending National Police, SF and Recon people in first, clear the city and see what's what before the main group move in.



khansaheeb said:


> It's called draw out and crush. `Ukrainians move forward and the Russian drones and artillery will pick them off. The remnant forces will be surrounded and pounded with a surprise counter attack.


lol, they can do that now if they wanted to, they have the artillery position and city to mask where they launch the drone from. They don't have any of that on the other side of the river to do this. 

Also, Ukrainian's Western Artillery outrange Russian one, and its plain on the other side, they will get smoked by Ukrainian artillery unit that pushes closer as the infantry advance..

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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> this sounds like a 180 degree turn on the war by you- what happened?
> 
> Btw i saw a telegram post saying Ukraine lost 12,000 soldiers in October 2022 alone. wow. Will Ukraine really be aable to hold onto all its land in East Ukraine? this war is far from over, thats just the fact, but if Russia will actually retreat from Kherson, and Ukraine takes it, then Ukraine has to get that credit for that move and reoccupation of their land, but then again, how that affect and fit into the larger picture of the overall war? What if Russia goes now to take Odessa or incursion from Belarus? THis war is just so fluid that i dont think these moves are affecting the end results or situation of the war.


How are they “gonna take odessa” or have a succesfull push from Belarus? (Failed earlier with more and better troops…and less prepped ukies). 

Are you eating colourfull mushrooms again?

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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> Honestly, even after regrouping, training, and arming, it’s no good for the Russians. Ukraine is armed to the teeth, and the worst enemy you can fight is the one that is fully alert and analyzing all threat parameters.
> 
> The Russians are emperors without clothes.
> 
> This war is lost, and Russia is relegated to local power, not even a regional one.
> 
> The US also played a risky game cornering Russian and calling its bluff, and succeeded and effectively showed the Europeans had no clothes. Had it not been for US arms, Intel, etc., and NATO cover, they would've been spanked around.


Well, Russia can do something if they have the backing of China, and China need that flame going if they want to take Taiwan with force, they probably will lose all chances if the war in Ukraine concluded before they themselves have a crack on Taiwan. 

The problem is, even with Chinese help to rearm and regroup the Russian, they can't really do anything now as the command and formation is so broken, they need to really go back to Pre-24 Feb line and hang on there and relaunch the attack, anything they feed in now is going to be piecemeal and green, those aren't going to hold.



ZeGerman said:


> How are they “gonna take odessa” or have a succesfull push from Belarus? (Failed earlier with more and better troops…and less prepped ukies).
> 
> Are you eating colourfull mushrooms again?


Well, you are talking to someone who believe "Kherson is forever Russian" and Russia will use nuke over Ukraine, Putin can sell them toilet paper and tell them it's money and they would believe it lol.

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590563924771864576
> 
> The Pentagon assesses Russia has lost half of its main battle tanks



And the other half is well used by now , and if ever put back on storage , would have to do serious maintenance.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590482103363284993

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590482103363284993


One clown (AZ guy) who literally makes things up, making fun of another clown's (Biden) speech impediment.

Lmao.

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## jhungary

That Guy said:


> One clown (AZ guy) who literally makes things up, making fun of another clown's (Biden) speech impediment.
> 
> Lmao.


or look at it this way.

Russia got beaten by a senile old man who can't distinguish between Kherson and Fallujah. That said the quality of Russian Army and the leadership. 

Biden : I beat you, even I don't know where I beat you from.

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL look who's not invited to the party. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590559429522763778

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## Reashot Xigwin

Oh no the Copium evolved into CopeCagium 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590478625144700929

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## Viet

Finally the Russians piss off.

Congrats to the Ukraine army to the victory of Kherson

Well done

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590633284140429314

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## zectech

I hope Europeans learn that Russia is not putting their entire stack of chips into Ukraine. Putin is saving the full mobilization of millions of Russians for an attack on the EU.

So Europe would be fighting 5-10 Ukraine Wars at once, Europe needs to prepare for this. Putin would make this move when Trump attacks China, or after Trump leaves NATO.

This Ukraine War is the dress rehearsal of a European War with no US help from Trump in the planned war.

This is why DeSantis is opposed by Trump, for the plan to work to putinize Europe, US would need to abandon NATO Europe to Russia. Such a US leader would need to be in on it with Putin.





__





Close Putin associate promises Russia ‘will continue to interfere’ in U.S. elections






www.msn.com





Gales of Stupid laughter
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## Vergennes

zectech said:


> I hope Europeans learn that Russia is not putting their entire stack of chips into Ukraine. Putin is saving the full mobilization of millions of Russians for an attack on the EU.
> 
> So Europe would be fighting 5-10 Ukraine Wars at once, Europe needs to prepare for this. Putin would make this move when Trump attacks China, or after Trump leaves NATO.
> 
> This Ukraine War is the dress rehearsal of a European War with no US help from Trump in the planned war.
> 
> This is why DeSantis is opposed by Trump, for the plan to work to putinize Europe, US would need to abandon NATO Europe to Russia. Such a US leader would need to be in on it with Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close Putin associate promises Russia ‘will continue to interfere’ in U.S. elections
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com



Russians can't take a road intersection for months in Ukraine and think they could attack NATO.... LMAO.

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## AlKardai

zectech said:


> I hope Europeans learn that Russia is not putting their entire stack of chips into Ukraine. Putin is saving the full mobilization of millions of Russians for an attack on the EU.
> 
> So Europe would be fighting 5-10 Ukraine Wars at once, Europe needs to prepare for this. Putin would make this move when Trump attacks China, or after Trump leaves NATO.
> 
> This Ukraine War is the dress rehearsal of a European War with no US help from Trump in the planned war.
> 
> This is why DeSantis is opposed by Trump, for the plan to work to putinize Europe, US would need to abandon NATO Europe to Russia. Such a US leader would need to be in on it with Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close Putin associate promises Russia ‘will continue to interfere’ in U.S. elections
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com



Russia will not invade the rest of Europe.
You are forgetting that parts of the EU are still armed with nukes, even with the US leaving the scene

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## Viet

Meanwhile since months the wagners still running against Ukraine defense at Bachmut like suicide lemmings.







Ukrainian soldiers of an artillery unit fire toward Russian positions outside Bakhmut on Nov. 8, 2022.
Bulent Kilic | AFP | Getty Images

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## sammuel

zectech said:


> Putin is saving the full mobilization of millions of Russians for an attack on the EU.



It would take years for Russia years to rebuild it's army before they can pull out another invasion like this.

~

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## Broccoli

sammuel said:


> It would take years for Russia years to rebuild it's army before they can pull out another invasion like this.
> 
> ~



European countries have also far stronger air forces than what Russians can deploy, and despite 9 months gone Russians can barely fly above battlefield with their fighters, this with country right next to their borders. After what we've seen people still overestimate Russian military capabilities... bizarre.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> lol, again, it's not incompetent if you reach 60% error, it's intentional...


The problem is Putin.

He has multiple armies that operate in different theaters in Ukraine without knowing each others.

He has the Russia army, headed by Shoigu and Gerasimov.

Then he has Kadyrow army, the Chechen leader himself.

Then the Wagner hooligans, headed by Prigoshin.

Then Putin has the separatist armies in Luhansk, Donbas, Cherson and elsewhere.

Then he has the FSB, his most favorite army.

How do Russia artillery and bombers know where on which areas those armies are?

Answer: they don’t know.

So that probably answers the russian incompetence.


----------



## Mista

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590445018006839298

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## LeGenD

zectech said:


> I hope Europeans learn that Russia is not putting their entire stack of chips into Ukraine. Putin is saving the full mobilization of millions of Russians for an attack on the EU.
> 
> So Europe would be fighting 5-10 Ukraine Wars at once, Europe needs to prepare for this. Putin would make this move when Trump attacks China, or after Trump leaves NATO.
> 
> This Ukraine War is the dress rehearsal of a European War with no US help from Trump in the planned war.
> 
> This is why DeSantis is opposed by Trump, for the plan to work to putinize Europe, US would need to abandon NATO Europe to Russia. Such a US leader would need to be in on it with Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close Putin associate promises Russia ‘will continue to interfere’ in U.S. elections
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com


Can Russia afford an army of millions? How will Russia equip an army this big?

Times have changed. Russia is not USSR and Western powers are not providing weapons to it to fight a third force.

Russia is unable to conquer Ukraine. Another push from Belarus into Ukraine is unlikely because Belarus does not have the stomach to fight a war for Russia and Ukraine have strengthened its defenses on the border with Belarus.

Poland is being armed to the teeth and it represents much tougher front than Ukraine. Polish are nationalistic people and will fight. Do not let their good looks fool you. 

You might have heard about Nordic Defense Cooperation between Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden? These countries will support each other if either is invaded. Terrain and atmospheric conditions present additional challenges in these countries.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590679611410481153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590683465724219392
Despite Russia throwing cannon fodders to slow down Ukrainian advance,they keep advancing in Luhansk.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590609136466608128

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## Vergennes

Good thing Ukraine liberated Kherson just before the winter.

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## jhungary

We should send Ukraine this









Rapid Dragon (missile system) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org










This will turn EVERY Transport aircraft into standoff bomber...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590688035917955073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590689572156895232

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590688696185278464

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## That Guy

zectech said:


> I hope Europeans learn that Russia is not putting their entire stack of chips into Ukraine. Putin is saving the full mobilization of millions of Russians for an attack on the EU.
> 
> So Europe would be fighting 5-10 Ukraine Wars at once, Europe needs to prepare for this. Putin would make this move when Trump attacks China, or after Trump leaves NATO.
> 
> This Ukraine War is the dress rehearsal of a European War with no US help from Trump in the planned war.
> 
> This is why DeSantis is opposed by Trump, for the plan to work to putinize Europe, US would need to abandon NATO Europe to Russia. Such a US leader would need to be in on it with Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close Putin associate promises Russia ‘will continue to interfere’ in U.S. elections
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com


Cope more

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## Vergennes

That Guy said:


> Cope more



"The real Russian army is waiting in Russia for NATO!!" "Russia only sent second tier forces".

Russia's losing against an army that barely has an air force,no navy still struggle to take villages and road intersections since the start of the war but the funboys here think Russia will invade Europe. Russians would be pulverized,plain and simple.

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## PakFactor

zectech said:


> I hope Europeans learn that Russia is not putting their entire stack of chips into Ukraine. Putin is saving the full mobilization of millions of Russians for an attack on the EU.
> 
> So Europe would be fighting 5-10 Ukraine Wars at once, Europe needs to prepare for this. Putin would make this move when Trump attacks China, or after Trump leaves NATO.
> 
> This Ukraine War is the dress rehearsal of a European War with no US help from Trump in the planned war.
> 
> This is why DeSantis is opposed by Trump, for the plan to work to putinize Europe, US would need to abandon NATO Europe to Russia. Such a US leader would need to be in on it with Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close Putin associate promises Russia ‘will continue to interfere’ in U.S. elections
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com



Your ability to cope is amazing. Lol



sammuel said:


> It would take years for Russia years to rebuild it's army before they can pull out another invasion like this.
> 
> ~



Yeah. If they get their economy back on track, I doubt the West would open them up again. The Americans have effectively neutered Russia in case of a conflict with China.

As for Russia, the flag bearer of Slavic people, the following holds:

“When the student is ready the teacher will appear. When the student is truly ready... The teacher will Disappear.”

― Tao Te Ching

They couldn't take the Kiyv Rus area, the origins of Russia. And the child is now the master.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590692624440393728

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## zectech

5000 Russian tanks, artillery and MLRS have been destroyed by Ukraine. Russia has ~35000 other tanks, artillery and MLRS in storage, in use. Some in storage need repairs.









Russian Ground Forces - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Russia has not fully mobilized their 1.3 million armed forces. Russia can get 2+ million to fight the EU. France and UK won't use nukes on Russia. Rather, Putin would threaten EU member states with nuclear annihilation if EU states don't surrender.

Ukraine has the largest army in Europe (xRussia). Most heavy weapons. Putin wants Ukraine to be a road in Romania and the Balkans, as the von Schlieffen plan was a road into France. Belarus is one such road to invade into Poland. Königsberg is too small to have a large scale operation out of. There is to be a front there, though only one of many fronts. There would be 5 Ukraine size conflicting vs the EU: Finland, Baltics, Königsberg into Poland, through Ukraine into Romania, and Belarus into into Central Europe. Only 15% of Russian heavy weapons have been destroyed. Much of the rest is in need of repair. If Trump returns in 2025, and leaves NATO in 2026.









Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book


‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said




www.independent.co.uk





That give NATO Europe/EU 4 years to build up to have a impenetrable defense.

If Putin wants to use nukes on the EU, and Trump USA wants to leave NATO, that must materialize into EU states (xUNSC states) having their own nukes, in numbers comparable to Putin, to prevent war.

This is why Ukraine must win the war. The safety of Europe depends on it. Ukraine is the bufferstate to protect the heart of the EU from a south front attack.

European arms makers need to be on full shift making weapons for the next 4 years.

Gales of Stupid laughter
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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590679611410481153
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590683465724219392
> Despite Russia throwing cannon fodders to slow down Ukrainian advance,they keep advancing in Luhansk.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590609136466608128


do I see correctly , they entrenched Tanks?





when people want to learn that is wrong for many reasons


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590439074338177024

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## zectech

Bush cia (Putin and Trump) are behind bitcoin.









4 Reasons to Believe the Deep State (or the NSA) Created Bitcoin


Since 2009, there have been many theories of whom created Bitcoin. Some even think the NSA created it.




www.ccn.com










Russians have millions of bitcoins. If bitcoin go to millions per bitcoin. Russia would be rich and Europe poor. Russia is trying to collapse the EU economy/euro so the EU cannot fund a military to defend from Russia. That is the main objective of this Ukraine War, a dress rehearsal of a Russian war on the EU, softening the EU economy and political sphere to make a Russian invasion possible in 4 years, if Trump returns to the white house. Russia won the first year of war. Europe is suffering from high inflation.

NATO: EU Cannot Protect Europe Alone Amid Threats From Terrorism, Russia​








NATO: EU Cannot Protect Europe Alone Amid Threats From Terrorism, Russia


NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg warned against any attempts to “divide Europe from North America” and said that the European Union “cannot defend” the continent alone amid the threat of terrorism and Russia's "destabilizing behavior."




www.rferl.org





EU is not strong enough to defend from a full Russian invasion with full mobilization. That is NATO Supreme Allied Commander speaking.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590703712447606785

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## zectech

There has to be a reason why Germany is spending 100 billion more into defense.









German lawmakers approve 100 billion euro military revamp


Germany's Bundestag, the lower house of parliament, on Friday approved creation of the 100 billion euro ($107.2 billion) special defence fund that Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.




www.reuters.com





Germans know, as NATO chief knows, that Russia is capable of a full invasion of Europe and winning.

Russia has been holding back a full mobilization war on Ukraine. Held back SU-35s for air superiority. Held back on newer tanks and equipment. This is the dress rehearsal. EU should not believe itself to be safe with a Russian defeat. Rather, prepare. There were many gales of stupid laughter in Europe about Nazi Germany rearming and threatening Europe, assuming France and the UK could easily defeat the Germans. Don't underestimate the enemy Russians.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

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## thetutle

LeGenD said:


> Poland is being armed to the teeth and it represents much tougher front than Ukraine. Polish are nationalistic people and will fight. Do not let their good looks fool you.
> 
> You might have heard about Nordic Defense Cooperation between Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden? These countries will support each other if either is invaded. Terrain and atmospheric conditions present additional challenges in these countries.


Poland is absolutely amazing now. Its becoming an armed camp. It has the same population of ukraine. Poland will never be invaded again.

Nordics are a superpower comparing to russia. 25 million nordics with their economy and wealth would simply crush any russian army. They have very high tech and are fierce fighters. 

Europe has its current borders for a reason, they are not easy to change, as russia is finding out. Historically, all the European counties only exited because they are fierce fighters and tough as nails. with a few exceptions. (Slovenia, Slovakia, Estonia, Macedonia) these were never independent countries historically.

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## zectech

Trump plans to turn the US into a Russian-style, Putinesque dictatorship. 

This was known about Trump. Trump wants to assassinate whistle blowers.






This is Putin:









Inside Putin’s ‘torture conveyor belt’ prisons where inmates are ‘raped and mutilated’


Vladimir Putin has been accused of overseeing a brutal prison system.




nypost.com





This week, Trump has vomited journalists that oppose and leak on Trump need to be raped in prison.

Trump Is Hoping to Put a Serious Number of Reporters in Jail During a Second Term









Trump Is Hoping to Put a Serious Number of Reporters in Jail During a Second Term


Journalistic freedom may be in real trouble if former president Donald Trump is elected president in 2024 because it’s being reported that plans to escalate his war against the press if he returns to the White House, said an unnamed source in an interview with RollingStone. Citing Rolling Stone...




www.politicalflare.com





_“Donald Trump ended his pre-midterm rally blitz in disgusting fashion, calling House Speaker Nancy Pelosi ‘an animal,’ championing the death penalty, and giddily imagining the prison rape of the journalist who reported on the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. The rally on Monday wasn’t the first time Trump imagined journalists being raped in prison. He laid out the same fantasy at a rally in Texas last month, saying the reporter would give up the identity of the leaker as soon as thy realize they are ‘going to be the bride of another prisoner very shortly.’ The audience burst out in laughter, just as they did Monday night in Ohio.”

“This year, as Trump has privately strategized about what a second term, potentially starting in 2025, could look like, he’s begun occasionally soliciticing ideas from conservative allies for how the U.S. government and Justice Department could go about turning his desires — for brutally imprisoning significant numbers of reporters — into reality,” RollingStone reports. “Several months ago, the former president briefly asked a small gathering of his allies and at least one of his attorneys about what would have to be done to make that authoritarian, First Amendment-shredding vision a norm, according to a source who was present.”_

Confirmed by Rolling Stone:









Trump Keeps Musing About Journalists Being Raped in Prison -- He's Not Joking


A knowledgeable source tells Rolling Stone that the former president has wondered how he might be able to jail reporters if he retakes the White House




www.rollingstone.com





Trump is planning to turn the US into Russia and handing over Europe to buddy Putin.

Gales of stupid Laughter
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## LeGenD

zectech said:


> 5000 Russian tanks, artillery and MLRS have been destroyed by Ukraine. Russia has ~35000 other tanks, artillery and MLRS in storage, in use. Some in storage need repairs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Ground Forces - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has not fully mobilized their 1.3 million armed forces. Russia can get 2+ million to fight the EU. France and UK won't use nukes on Russia. Rather, Putin would threaten EU member states with nuclear annihilation if EU states don't surrender.
> 
> Ukraine has the largest army in Europe (xRussia). Most heavy weapons. Putin wants Ukraine to be a road in Romania and the Balkans, as the von Schlieffen plan was a road into France. Belarus is one such road to invade into Poland. Königsberg is too small to have a large scale operation out of. There is to be a front there, though only one of many fronts. There would be 5 Ukraine size conflicting vs the EU: Finland, Baltics, Königsberg into Poland, through Ukraine into Romania, and Belarus into into Central Europe. Only 15% of Russian heavy weapons have been destroyed. Much of the rest is in need of repair. If Trump returns in 2025, and leaves NATO in 2026.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book
> 
> 
> ‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That give NATO Europe/EU 4 years to build up to have a impenetrable defense.
> 
> If Putin wants to use nukes on the EU, and Trump USA wants to leave NATO, that must materialize into EU states (xUNSC states) having their own nukes, in numbers comparable to Putin, to prevent war.
> 
> This is why Ukraine must win the war. The safety of Europe depends on it. Ukraine is the bufferstate to protect the heart of the EU from a south front attack.
> 
> European arms makers need to be on full shift making weapons for the next 4 years.
> 
> Gales of Stupid laughter
> |
> |
> |
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> V



There are things on paper and then there are logistics requirements, operational requirements, and economics.

Those 1.3 million troops are split across paramilitary, army, air force, and navy.

Russia committed all branches of its military to war effort in Ukraine. *Over* 200,000 troops and irregulars were dispatched in the format of Land Forces to invade Ukraine. VKS have its own personnel and actively used for strikes in Ukraine. Russian Navy have its own personnel and actively used for strikes in Ukraine. *Over* 400,000 personnel might be involved considering all forces and operational requirements.

Then there is the factor of *ROTATIONS* and *REPLACEMENT* of Combat Losses in the battlefield.

Your hypothesis is impractical. Russia have had its hands full in Ukraine - its biggest military operation since World War 2.

But losses are staggering in terms of men and equipment. Many combat units crippled. Many officers KIA. Many logistics units crippled. The organization is shaken. Morale is shaken.

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## thetutle

PakFactor said:


> They couldn't take the Kiyv Rus area, the origins of Russia. And the child is now the master.


It's the origins of Ukraine also. These were very similar people inhabiting kyevan Rus. One called "Rus" and the other "Rusyn". Then they branched off. Rusyn became the ukranians quite recently. I would not call one the child of the other. Its just that the Rus expanded further and became larger.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590713849371852800

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## zectech

Against the EU, Russia would use their entire air force, navy, army, reservists, paramilitary.

Russia is deliberately not playing the full deck, because then the EU would prepare for the full deck seeing the full deck in Ukraine. The war on the EU would be much worse than on Ukraine.

Russia would not likely attack EU until buddy Trump has left NATO.









Trump repeatedly considered pulling the U.S. out of NATO


President Donald Trump said privately multiple times last year that he wanted to pull the United States out of NATO, a move that aides scrambled to counter, according to a report.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Or started a war with China.

These are possible scenarios and Europe needs to prepared for this. Germany is. Poland is. Baltic States are. More need to prepare for a worse war than in Ukraine.

Russia a fight on so many fronts, Russia could get 2 million boots on the ground from drafts. Only strength can keep the peace.

Gales of stupid laughter
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## 925boy

sammuel said:


> It would take years for Russia years to rebuild it's army before they can pull out another invasion like this.
> 
> ~


and it wont take US military "years" to rebuild its army before it can pull another invasion like this? you always use different rules for Russia than you use for western countries- hypocrite.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590713945257836544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590716388431212544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590717908585705475

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590712296695033857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590716062349524992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590719550902845440

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## That Guy

925boy said:


> and it wont take US military "years" to rebuild its army before it can pull another invasion like this? you always use different rules for Russia than you use for western countries- hypocrite.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590720587957407745

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## Ali_Baba

Russian soldier nearly thrown from moving truck in fight as Putin’s troops flee Kherson​








Russian soldier nearly thrown from moving truck as troops flee Kherson


Moscow's military forces have been ordered to withdraw from the key southern city of Kherson in the face of a powerful Ukrainian counter-offensive.




www.express.co.uk





>> Even as Russians withdraw - they fight each other..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590726912762343424

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## BHAN85

zectech said:


> Against the EU, Russia would use their entire air force, navy, army, reservists, paramilitary.
> 
> Russia is deliberately not playing the full deck, because then the EU would prepare for the full deck seeing the full deck in Ukraine. The war on the EU would be much worse than on Ukraine.
> 
> Russia would not likely attack EU until buddy Trump has left NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump repeatedly considered pulling the U.S. out of NATO
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump said privately multiple times last year that he wanted to pull the United States out of NATO, a move that aides scrambled to counter, according to a report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or started a war with China.
> 
> These are possible scenarios and Europe needs to prepared for this. Germany is. Poland is. Baltic States are. More need to prepare for a worse war than in Ukraine.
> 
> Russia a fight on so many fronts, Russia could get 2 million boots on the ground from drafts. Only strength can keep the peace.
> 
> Gales of stupid laughter
> |
> |
> |
> |
> V



I dont understand hard complicated military strategies when you have nukes.

It's too easy to win if you have nukes, if you're willing to use it, and your enemy dont have nukes.

Just drop 25 nukes, and threat the survival government with 25 nukes more if they dont obbey your orders.

That's all.

Win.


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## That Guy

BHAN85 said:


> I dont understand hard complicated military strategies when you have nukes.
> 
> It's too easy to win if you have nukes, if you're willing to use it, and your enemy dont have nukes.
> 
> Just drop 25 nukes, and threat the survival government with 25 nukes more if they dont obbey your orders.
> 
> That's all.
> 
> Win.


Nuclear fallout doesn't recognize national borders.

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## 1ndy

925boy said:


> and it wont take US military "years" to rebuild its army before it can pull another invasion like this? you always use different rules for Russia than you use for western countries- hypocrite.


US has technology, trained manpower and money to build anything they want. You will see Starship landing on Mars before Russia manage to manufacture 1 more Armata.

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## sammuel

~

Ukrainian flag has reportedly been raised in the village of Novokairy, situated on the western bank of the Dnipro river, 30 km northeast of Nova Kakhovka

Ukrainian military in full control over Chkalove, Kherson region

Ukrainian military liberated Bobrovyi Kut and Yevhenivka of Kherson region

Ukrainian military liberated Pavlivka of Kherson region

Stanislav of Kherson region was liberated from Russian occupation

Source :










Stanislav of Kherson region was liberated from Russian occupation Kherson, Khersons'ka oblast - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Stanislav of Kherson region was liberated from Russian occupation. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests, terrorism...




liveuamap.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590701157235978241

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## BHAN85

That Guy said:


> Nuclear fallout doesn't recognize national borders.


If you attack non-nuclear states, you know how big will be the fallout, and Russia can afford make a lot of nuclear damage to West Europe without Russia affected.


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## 925boy

1ndy said:


> US has technology, trained manpower and money to build anything they want.


so why didnt it? lets compare REALITY to HYPOTHETICALs, like the one you mentioned above.

AMerica must fix its equity and racial issues FIRST, before it can move forward, because its issues are more intense and compounded now



That Guy said:


> View attachment 895235


good point, i can accept now that i was wrong on that prediction.

UKraine winning battles doesnt mean its gonna win the war, that still matters.


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## Broccoli

Vergennes said:


> "The real Russian army is waiting in Russia for NATO!!" "Russia only sent second tier forces".
> 
> Russia's losing against an army that barely has an air force,no navy still struggle to take villages and road intersections since the start of the war but the funboys here think Russia will invade Europe. Russians would be pulverized,plain and simple.



Chinese must be sweating because their whole military doctrine is based on Russian way of fighting from air force what is dopping mostly unguided bombs to similar land force tactics. Now we've seen how those work against western tactics... it takes years to retrain everyone in PLA.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590737480671981570

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## Broccoli

BHAN85 said:


> If you attack non-nuclear states, you know how big will be the fallout, and Russia can afford make a lot of nuclear damage to West Europe without Russia affected.



I see that Russia supporters are becoming desperate and nuke talks begin again... I was told by you lot that Russia can take out NATO without nukes but now they need them against non-nuclear states? Big LOL.

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## F-22Raptor

But the Shahed-136s?

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## Deino

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590439074338177024




Well ... yesterday was not a good day for some old fellas!

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590741703019106306

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590738268806860801
Let's take a laugh at those saying Himars or western supplied weapons wouldn't make a difference....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590741186180182016

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## Deino

That Guy said:


> View attachment 895235




Well, not sure what is excuse is right now, but maybe he follows this statement?

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590737480671981570



Significant gain


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## BHAN85

Broccoli said:


> I see that Russia supporters are becoming desperate and nuke talks begin again... I was told by you lot that Russia can take out NATO without nukes but now they need them against non-nuclear states? Big LOL.


I'm not Russia supporter, you're insane.

I live in West Europe.

And obviously I dont want a nuke falling over my head.



If you want to be brave against a nuclear state and you dont have nukes, it's ok, go ahead.

But I'm not so brave like you.


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## oberschlesier

The European gas storage for Winter is at 95% and it`s growing (!):


Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI



We are freezing... brrrr

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590751168166514688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590747290305986560


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## oberschlesier

BHAN85 said:


> I'm not Russia supporter, you're insane.
> 
> I live in West Europe.
> 
> And obviously I dont want a nuke falling over my head.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to be brave against a nuclear state and you dont have nukes, it's ok, go ahead.
> 
> But I'm not so brave like you.


Don`t be afraid, nothing will happen, using nuclear weapons by Russia is putting down the drain the whole nuclear strategies of all major players incluging China. 

The Problem now is how to setup a good negotiation position for Ukraine and the West including the reinstating Ukraine borders and reparations for West for the Energy price Inflation.

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## thetutle

BHAN85 said:


> I dont understand hard complicated military strategies when you have nukes.


It is clear that you lack understanding. 


BHAN85 said:


> It's too easy to win if you have nukes, if you're willing to use it, and your enemy dont have nukes.
> 
> Just drop 25 nukes, and threat the survival government with 25 nukes more if they dont obbey your orders.
> 
> That's all.
> 
> Win.


Yep, very clear. 


Broccoli said:


> Chinese must be sweating because their whole military doctrine is based on Russian way of fighting from air force what is dopping mostly unguided bombs to similar land force tactics. Now we've seen how those work against western tactics... it takes years to retrain everyone in PLA.


For sure. The Chinese now realise they cant take Taiwan. I dont think they knew that before and I am sure USA was just waiting for them to fall into the same trap. China for the second time in 25 years has learnt from Russian mistakes. 

At some point china will build itself up to be able to take it, but not soon it seems.

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## That Guy

BHAN85 said:


> If you attack non-nuclear states, you know how big will be the fallout, and Russia can afford make a lot of nuclear damage to West Europe without Russia affected.


Environmental and resource damage can literally be nation ending.

[Edit] changed my words to be more polite. I really gotta stop being a sarcastic a-hole.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590759874581135360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590758401235042304


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## jhungary

925boy said:


> good point, i can accept now that i was wrong on that prediction.
> 
> UKraine winning battles doesnt mean its gonna win the war, that still matters.


Since when were you right??

I believe it's 3: 0 now.....Not that I am keeping score.

*AND YOU CAN SCREENSHOT THIS*..........

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## jhungary

1ndy said:


> US has technology, trained manpower and money to build anything they want. You will see Starship landing on Mars before Russia manage to manufacture 1 more Armata.


The first thing they teach you in OCS (Officer Candidate School) is to teach you to make do.

The very first thing they said on the very first class (Well, if you can call it a class) is that "You fight a war with the equipment you get now, not the equipment you WILL get 3 months down the road, not the equipment you will get 6 months down the road"

The reason behind this is, you fight with the equipment you have now, then 3 months down the road, that equipment would replace the loss you suffer now, and the one in 6 months will be used to replace the one you lose 3 months down.

While you will have your strategic reserve, but you rarely use them, and even more rarely lose them, because when you dip into your strategic reserve, you are already in trouble.

What Russia had now is dipping *WAY PAST* their strategic reserve, they are literally borrowing men from all sorts of walk of life (Mobilisation) which is what you don't do in a normal war. In a total war when your country existence is at stake, then yeah, sure. We learn that lesson in Vietnam when it takes us 20+ years to rebuild the strength of the Army after the "expanded" capability from the draft, just in time for the gulf war.

US fight with whatever they had in stock, and once that gone, that's gone, you don't have them until the next rotation, Russia on the other hand, have their hand deep in their pocket, they are probably borrowing 2 to 3 rotations just to stay afloat in Ukraine, they won't see the damage it had done to them now, but 5 years after the war, that will start showing. That's the main different.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590771132139175937
News coming of liberated villages/towns are coming hours after their actual liberation,meaning Ukrainians are closing on Kherson.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590774345747632163
Grey Zone (Wagner) claims the first Ukrainian troops entered Kherson,but to be taken with a pinch of salt.

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## Ali_Baba

The Russian front in Kherson for their "managed" withdrawl has collapsed outright it seems !!!!

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## Deino

Very interesting conclusion ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590729203485356034

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine is only 10km from Kherson centre now ( according to UK channel 4 news at 19:00 GMT ... ).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590691365972680704

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590785385579556864

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590785887985889280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590785272765087745


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590785269636399104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590785272765087745
New weapons package

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590717819674468352
Props to Rishi

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## aziqbal

925boy said:


> this sounds like a 180 degree turn on the war by you- what happened?
> 
> Btw i saw a telegram post saying Ukraine lost 12,000 soldiers in October 2022 alone. wow. Will Ukraine really be aable to hold onto all its land in East Ukraine? this war is far from over, thats just the fact, but if Russia will actually retreat from Kherson, and Ukraine takes it, then Ukraine has to get that credit for that move and reoccupation of their land, but then again, how that affect and fit into the larger picture of the overall war? What if Russia goes now to take Odessa or incursion from Belarus? THis war is just so fluid that i dont think these moves are affecting the end results or situation of the war.



yes its a 180 degree turn because thats what happened on the ground

the Russian superiority was in its artillery and artillery only

for artillery they need huge logistics and warehouses to store the millions of rounds of ammunition and these have to be brought right up to the front line

I dont think Russia would have ever ran out of the 122mm rounds they have way too many shells

however the HIMARS devastated the warehouses and ammo dumps holding these rounds, I believe Ukraine has hit over 150 Russian ammo dumps and basically that put the Russian artillery out of action and they basically lost their entire stock of shells

Russia never managed to solve the HIMAR problem, S400 was designed for fast fighter jets and high altitude ballistic missiles not for short range slim low flying rockets

Pantinsr and Tor was also not successful because of the short time lag

HIMARS had a huge impact on what happened on the ground, Western intelligence on where the ammo dumps are is way to accurate, and HIMARS is also way too accurate, a single direct hit can wipe out months of supplies

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## Irfan Baloch

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590785887985889280
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590785272765087745


with such stunning victories as shown on twitter and other social media I think Ukrainian Azov Battalion must march all the way to Moscow and then set out on the conquest of the world. nothing can stop them now.

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## Viet

Shoigu is in big trouble.

How to bring all looted washing machines and fridges to other side of the river?

Surovikin, the commander of Russian invasion army, seems to know the answer.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590809181409640448

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## aziqbal

Viet said:


> Shoigu is in big trouble.
> 
> How to bring all looted washing machines and fridges to other side of the river?
> 
> Surovikin, the commander of Russian invasion army, seems to know the answer.
> 
> 
> View attachment 895320



Russia has some very good generals and they are competent 

Russian are not stupid people they are very tough people and brave fighters you dont become the largest nation on earth by giving up land these guys know how to take and hold land 

but Ukrainians are schooled in the same subject, Ukraine is fighting their own brothers here, they know what Russia will do next 

plus the Ukrainians have one thing Russia does not have, REAL TIME INTELLIGENCE

as soon as a Russian convoy leaves its barracks the AWACS and Surveillance rely this info to the Ukrainians on the ground and with weapons like HIMARS the results are devastating 

the amount of intel flights flying around Ukraine is insane, Sweden and UK have flown non-stop since Feb add to that NATO AWACS and USAF brings in more flight hours then whole of Europe combined they know exactly where each BTG where it is moving and what is in each ground 

Russian are a 1980s army using brute force, the jets like Su35 and Su34 dont even have targeting pods to try high altitude bombing they still fly Mig31 over Belarus to hit inside Ukraine and the Mig31 is not a joke 

T90 and Terminators running into forest with no infantry 

backward tactics by local commanders


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590809414235090944


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## Ali_Baba

aziqbal said:


> yes its a 180 degree turn because thats what happened on the ground
> 
> the Russian superiority was in its artillery and artillery only
> 
> for artillery they need huge logistics and warehouses to store the millions of rounds of ammunition and these have to be brought right up to the front line
> 
> I dont think Russia would have ever ran out of the 122mm rounds they have way too many shells
> 
> however the HIMARS devastated the warehouses and ammo dumps holding these rounds, I believe Ukraine has hit over 150 Russian ammo dumps and basically that put the Russian artillery out of action and they basically lost their entire stock of shells
> 
> Russia never managed to solve the HIMAR problem, S400 was designed for fast fighter jets and high altitude ballistic missiles not for short range slim low flying rockets
> 
> Pantinsr and Tor was also not successful because of the short time lag
> 
> HIMARS had a huge impact on what happened on the ground, Western intelligence on where the ammo dumps are is way to accurate, and HIMARS is also way too accurate, a single direct hit can wipe out months of supplies



The only way to tackle HIMARs was to have better intelligence on when HIMARs was used, to pointpoint those lunach locations and then send the Russian Airforce on a seek and destroy within a defined area - and to also accept losses in achieving the destruction of HIMARS. However, Russia was not prepared to put at risk its airforce anymore than it did and that has turned the tide of the war.

NATO/USAF/RAF did this so perfectly in Gulf War 1 - when going after scud launchers in the 1990's - but 30 years laters - Russia still cannot do the same thing !!!!! Shocking ...

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## aziqbal

Ali_Baba said:


> The only way to tackle HIMARs was to have better intelligence on when HIMARs was used, to pointpoint those lunach locations and then send the Russian Airforce on a seek and destroy within a defined area - and to also accept losses in achieving the destruction of HIMARS. However, Russia was not prepared to put at risk its airforce anymore than it did and that has turned the tide of the war.
> 
> NATO/USAF/RAF did this so perfectly in Gulf War 1 - when going after scud launchers in the 1990's - but 30 years laters - Russia still cannot do the same thing !!!!! Shocking ...



not entirely true, Iraqi Scuds were never fully neutralised and Israel was getting hammered even on the last day of the war by the Iraqi scuds 

UK sent in the SAS behind enemy lines to hunt the Scuds and they ended up getting to the Jordanian border but never found the mobile Scud launchers 

HIMARS is 100 times more powerful than Scud, HIMARS has 4 minutes load time Scud has 45 minutes and by the time rockets have landed HIMARS is doing 50 mph down the highway you cannot easily hit the HIMARS 

only way way to intercept rockets or jam the satellite signals 

Russian never did either and this is why they lost

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## aziqbal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590809414235090944



the Battle of Bakhmut proved one thing, Ukrainians are very tough fighters and Russian threw everything they had at them, cluster bombs and phosphors bombs everything but nukes 

they never managed to break the Bakhmut-Soledar-Siversk line it held against deadly Russian attacks 

had they broke through they would have taken Kramatrosk and Slovansk 

then the entire Northern area was open to Russian counter attack and no way Ukraine could swing South to Kherson 

I think Battle of Bakhmiut reminded the Russian that even on land and with everything they could not defeat Ukraine, this is disheartening for Russia 

Ukraine avenged the deaths of so many poor unarmed Syrians who were abandoned by the World and were left to the mercy of the Russians 

Ukrainians and Afghans taught Russian a lesson they will never forget

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## MeFishToo

aziqbal said:


> Russia has some very good generals and they are competent
> 
> Russian are not stupid people they are very tough people and brave fighters you dont become the largest nation on earth by giving up land these guys know how to take and hold land
> 
> but Ukrainians are schooled in the same subject, Ukraine is fighting their own brothers here, they know what Russia will do next
> 
> plus the Ukrainians have one thing Russia does not have, REAL TIME INTELLIGENCE
> 
> as soon as a Russian convoy leaves its barracks the AWACS and Surveillance rely this info to the Ukrainians on the ground and with weapons like HIMARS the results are devastating
> 
> the amount of intel flights flying around Ukraine is insane, Sweden and UK have flown non-stop since Feb add to that NATO AWACS and USAF brings in more flight hours then whole of Europe combined they know exactly where each BTG where it is moving and what is in each ground
> 
> Russian are a 1980s army using brute force, the jets like Su35 and Su34 dont even have targeting pods to try high altitude bombing they still fly Mig31 over Belarus to hit inside Ukraine and the Mig31 is not a joke
> 
> T90 and Terminators running into forest with no infantry
> 
> backward tactics by local commanders


Not to mention all these daily but fruitless platoon to company sized attacks all over the Donbas front.
I think the long range mobile artillery donated like Caesar, Panzerhaubitz, Zuzana 2 go unnoticed. Their range and precision (especially with guided rounds) in combination with some decent drones could really soften the russian multi layered defence, and artillery positions.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590818322723274753
If true hope for intense Himars attacks,do not let them time to cross,regroup and transfer their heavy equipments.

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## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590818322723274753
> If true hope for intense Himars attacks,do not let them time to cross,regroup and transfer their heavy equipments.


Hopefully the ukrainians get to decimate the airborne units to a point where theyre pulled off the battlefield. No need to have them relocated somewhere else in this war.
But to be honest, withdrawing seems to be something the russian army master at some degree.

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## aziqbal

reminds me of the evacuation from the Western side of the Sea of Azov in WW2 in 1941 

poor Russians hammered and beaten fleeing across the sea to safety while getting hammered on small boats 

only this time they cannot outbuild their enemy when it comes to weapons and come back like Operation Uranus


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590825788936318976
South Korea to deliver 100K 155mm shells to Ukraine with US to deliver

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## PakFactor

zectech said:


> Against the EU, Russia would use their entire air force, navy, army, reservists, paramilitary.
> 
> Russia is deliberately not playing the full deck, because then the EU would prepare for the full deck seeing the full deck in Ukraine. The war on the EU would be much worse than on Ukraine.
> 
> Russia would not likely attack EU until buddy Trump has left NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump repeatedly considered pulling the U.S. out of NATO
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump said privately multiple times last year that he wanted to pull the United States out of NATO, a move that aides scrambled to counter, according to a report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or started a war with China.
> 
> These are possible scenarios and Europe needs to prepared for this. Germany is. Poland is. Baltic States are. More need to prepare for a worse war than in Ukraine.
> 
> Russia a fight on so many fronts, Russia could get 2 million boots on the ground from drafts. Only strength can keep the peace.
> 
> Gales of stupid laughter
> |
> |
> |
> |
> V



How will you arm those 2 million boots your going to draft? World War II metal helmets, and rusted AKs due to poor storage conditions? I don't even want to think what the condition of the ammunition will be. Armour wise the Russians burnt through combined amour might of Pakistan & India.

I still support mobilization though, the more they fight the better. 

Lol


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## The SC




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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


>


Its a total secret these US-Russia agreements, yet he knows..


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590831938113515520


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590835675393556480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590836165128900608


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590838418342232065

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## aviator_fan

LeGenD said:


> There are things on paper and then there are logistics requirements, operational requirements, and economics.
> 
> Those 1.3 million troops are split across paramilitary, army, air force, and navy.
> 
> Russia committed all branches of its military to war effort in Ukraine. *Over* 200,000 troops and irregulars were dispatched in the format of Land Forces to invade Ukraine. VKS have its own personnel and actively used for strikes in Ukraine. Russian Navy have its own personnel and actively used for strikes in Ukraine. *Over* 400,000 personnel might be involved considering all forces and operational requirements.
> 
> Then there is the factor of *ROTATIONS* and *REPLACEMENT* of Combat Losses in the battlefield.
> 
> Your hypothesis is impractical. Russia have had its hands full in Ukraine - its biggest military operation since World War 2.
> 
> But losses are staggering in terms of men and equipment. Many combat units crippled. Many officers KIA. Many logistics units crippled. The organization is shaken. Morale is shaken.


Yes and if all 1.3M going to deploy who is going to keep putting the russian citizenry in jail for the unrest that will follow. Half this force is internally focused

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590838440974852103

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590814597090807810

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590813948932423680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590841210779963392

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## aviator_fan

If this moves war to closer one more step I am glad about a strategic town lost and the morale boost to the victors (and depletion to the losers).

Now what happened to the 'Iran is so supreme that Ukraine will go to its knees when its without power' mindset.

Ukraine without power, Kherson taken, Ukraine's not shuddering about moped drone attacks (and managed to project operations). Ukraine's no more neutered with Iranian greatness any more than Israelis have been. Iran is just good at getting one set of muslims killed against another. Thats what they excel it (other than beating their own teenagers to submission). 

Or may be the people took my suggestion and did start another thread and I need to join that.

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## F-22Raptor

aviator_fan said:


> If this moves war to closer one more step I am glad about a strategic town lost and the morale boost to the victors (and depletion to the losers).
> 
> Now what happened to the 'Iran is so supreme that Ukraine will go to its knees when its without power' mindset.
> 
> Ukraine without power, Kherson taken, Ukraine's not shuddering about moped drone attacks (and managed to project operations). Ukraine's no more neutered with Iranian greatness any more than Israelis have been. Iran is just good at getting one set of muslims killed against another. Thats what they excel it (other than beating their own teenagers to submission).
> 
> Or may be the people took my suggestion and did start another thread and I need to join that.



Those drones only terrorize Ukrainian civilians.

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## Vergennes

Give them hell,glory to Ukraine!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590845348419076100

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> The only way to tackle HIMARs was to have better intelligence on when HIMARs was used, to pointpoint those lunach locations and then send the Russian Airforce on a seek and destroy within a defined area - and to also accept losses in achieving the destruction of HIMARS. However, Russia was not prepared to put at risk its airforce anymore than it did and that has turned the tide of the war.
> 
> NATO/USAF/RAF did this so perfectly in Gulf War 1 - when going after scud launchers in the 1990's - but 30 years laters - Russia still cannot do the same thing !!!!! Shocking ...


The only way to target HIMARS is like any other competent military would do, hunt them in the air, as they are too mobile for any ground unit to counter, and they are too long range for any artillery. But to do that, you need to suppress your enemy air and air defence, and then you need to blind your enemy own intelligence. That mean you will need air superiority, which is something the Russian never has,

Maybe Russia didn't think HIMARS is going to make such an impact? On paper, they should have the stuff to take care of HIMARS, that's why when the US first sent them in, the US themselves are quite sceptical as for what they can achieve. And I did wrote back in June that Russia need to hunt the HIIMARS down in the air but even back then you can see their air power is more or less neutralised at that point, which I believe they never even tried to hunt them down. 

This is a giant daisy chain actually, RuAF failed to gain Air Superiority, it leads to them failing to take care of Ukrainian Air Defence, then lead to Ukrainian manage to send up Air Recon asset, either drone or gunship, and leads to rampant HIMARS strike and that leads to their Fix Wing and Chopper cannot fly CAP mission for their ground troop, that ultimately leads to HIMARS strike, rinse and repeat. That's got them losing this war.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> The only way to target HIMARS is like any other competent military would do, hunt them in the air, as they are too mobile for any ground unit to counter, and they are too long range for any artillery. But to do that, you need to suppress your enemy air and air defence, and then you need to blind your enemy own intelligence. That mean you will need air superiority, which is something the Russian never has,
> 
> Maybe Russia didn't think HIMARS is going to make such an impact? On paper, they should have the stuff to take care of HIMARS, that's why when the US first sent them in, the US themselves are quite sceptical as for what they can achieve. And I did wrote back in June that Russia need to hunt the HIIMARS down in the air but even back then you can see their air power is more or less neutralised at that point, which I believe they never even tried to hunt them down.
> 
> This is a giant daisy chain actually, RuAF failed to gain Air Superiority, it leads to them failing to take care of Ukrainian Air Defence, then lead to Ukrainian manage to send up Air Recon asset, either drone or gunship, and leads to rampant HIMARS strike and that leads to their Fix Wing and Chopper cannot fly CAP mission for their ground troop, that ultimately leads to HIMARS strike, rinse and repeat. That's got them losing this war.



BTW, ATACMS cannot be precisely detected by CB radar because it executes a zigzag maneuver to fool them. I wonder if the GMLRS does the same.


----------



## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> the Battle of Bakhmut proved one thing, Ukrainians are very tough fighters and Russian threw everything they had at them, cluster bombs and phosphors bombs everything but nukes
> 
> they never managed to break the Bakhmut-Soledar-Siversk line it held against deadly Russian attacks
> 
> had they broke through they would have taken Kramatrosk and Slovansk
> 
> then the entire Northern area was open to Russian counter attack and no way Ukraine could swing South to Kherson
> 
> I think Battle of Bakhmiut reminded the Russian that even on land and with everything they could not defeat Ukraine, this is disheartening for Russia
> 
> Ukraine avenged the deaths of so many poor unarmed Syrians who were abandoned by the World and were left to the mercy of the Russians
> 
> Ukrainians and Afghans taught Russian a lesson they will never forget


Bakhmut ceased to be a problem for the Ukrainian when the Ukrainian countered in Izyum, because they took back all the land between Lyman and Siversky in one single stroke, and that was late September. You can't assault Bakhmut head on from Popasna Direction, you need either a northern hook or a southern hook to cover both road. Russia never had that, they pressed as far as Siversky, and that's it, they now try to pass on from Paviika and Opytne in the South, but fat chance they are going to do it. 

What the Ukrainian do is, they rotate 3 Brigade in the area, and keep grinding the Russian all in the while they know they can't lose it. Russia lost a lot of men and equipment in Bakhmut, yes so did Ukrainian, but Ukrainian would just redeploy unit from other front and keep rotating the 3 Brigades to wind down the Russian, on the other hand, Russian have no rotation, they can feed new troop in the already decimated unit and keep fighting, which is what they did essentially. That's not going to work.

Many analysts believe the Withdraw from Kherson is to pull those 20,000 troops in Kherson north into Bakhmut to make a difference. The problem is, while Russia can pull 20,000 exhausted troop from Kherson, depends on how Ukraine wants to tackle south of Dnieper. They can take half the force out (Which would be 8 Brigade) or all but 2 brigade, which will leave 14 brigade free to move East. 14 Brigade is about 60,000 men...as each Brigade are aroudn 4500 men. Or they can just move unit from Odessa and Kryvyi Rih and redploy the entire line toward the East. 







This is OSINT map on Kherson DIrection as of Nov 10, each unit with a "X" marked above is a Brigade, this show 15 Brigade in the Kherson immediate area. But then again this is OSINT, this will not show everything, most likely the reserve force hidden somewhere.



Paul2 said:


> BTW, ATACMS cannot be precisely detected by CB radar because it executes a zigzag maneuver to fool them. I wonder if the GMLRS does the same.


Think it's the same, they have a "choatic" mid-course which mean you cannot estimate where that GMLRS come from.

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## Paul2

aziqbal said:


> the Russian superiority was in its artillery and artillery only
> 
> for artillery they need huge logistics and warehouses to store the millions of rounds of ammunition and these have to be brought right up to the front line
> 
> I dont think Russia would have ever ran out of the 122mm rounds they have way too many shells
> 
> however the HIMARS devastated the warehouses and ammo dumps holding these rounds, I believe Ukraine has hit over 150 Russian ammo dumps and basically that put the Russian artillery out of action and they basically lost their entire stock of shells




Yes, people now believe Russians started preparing to leave when they understood that their last firebases are about to be taken out.
They lost their last few firebases to massive HiMARS strike 4 days ago.
They certainly had few 300 mm, and 8 8 inch guns left, but no longer enough to stave off assaults
Their small calibre artillery was no good. Their small artillery was only trained for fire support on sub-regimental level
And yes, Russians have ran out of their 122mm stocks, and they cannot replenish now, as original Soviet 122mm factory was in Ukraine

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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> HiMARSes sent 18 rockets on it yesterday. We will see the results once the ground dries up.



This is what took out their last firebases.

I only noticed now that they launched HiMARS in broad daylight then. That' something I never seen before them doing.

They must have been acting on a very short notice once they got intel of their positions.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590863502809665536

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590874142693158912
The Russians are getting annihilated. It’s nonstop artillery and rocket fire.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590794079813926912

Annihilation fires

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## FuturePAF

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590863502809665536


The Russian are getting slaughtered at the river crossings. They may lose so many men in the next 48-72 hours that Putin will do something rash, to prevent being overthrown.

If it’s to protect his head, I don’t think anything is off the table. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590844444349124608

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## Viet

aziqbal said:


> Russia has some very good generals and they are competent
> 
> Russian are not stupid people they are very tough people and brave fighters you dont become the largest nation on earth by giving up land these guys know how to take and hold land
> 
> but Ukrainians are schooled in the same subject, Ukraine is fighting their own brothers here, they know what Russia will do next
> 
> plus the Ukrainians have one thing Russia does not have, REAL TIME INTELLIGENCE
> 
> as soon as a Russian convoy leaves its barracks the AWACS and Surveillance rely this info to the Ukrainians on the ground and with weapons like HIMARS the results are devastating
> 
> the amount of intel flights flying around Ukraine is insane, Sweden and UK have flown non-stop since Feb add to that NATO AWACS and USAF brings in more flight hours then whole of Europe combined they know exactly where each BTG where it is moving and what is in each ground
> 
> Russian are a 1980s army using brute force, the jets like Su35 and Su34 dont even have targeting pods to try high altitude bombing they still fly Mig31 over Belarus to hit inside Ukraine and the Mig31 is not a joke
> 
> T90 and Terminators running into forest with no infantry
> 
> backward tactics by local commanders


Ukraine is in some way like Vietnam. Much smaller and weaker, but culturally we are the same people. As Putin puts it: Russia and Ukraine people share the same cultural space. we know how the China thinking, believing, doing and based on that we predict their actions. We don’t beat them by brute force but intelligent.
As for Putin that’s biggest strategic mistake ever in full invasion of Ukraine.
Ukraine will beat Russia to dust. There is no way out for Putin.


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## ZeGerman

@jhungary i thought about your strategic idea to level kherson earlier.

I think ukraine has showing incredible restraint not targeting city/village centres.
From moral perspective this is ofcourse great (and make sense cause they want to liberate not level them) but this also meant that Russia could hardly really push their their “dombass genocide” “nazi killing our russian civilians” lies. Even to internal audience.


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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> @jhungary i thought about your strategic idea to level kherson earlier.
> 
> I think ukraine has showing incredible restraint not targeting city/village centres.
> From moral perspective this is ofcourse great (and make sense cause they want to liberate not level them) but this also meant that Russia could hardly really push their their “dombass genocide” “nazi killing our russian civilians” lies. Even to internal audience.


I will say, it has been Russian aim to garner domestic support to continue on with this war, not the Ukrainian. Not saying the Ukrainian can get away with more destruction on their own city, but there are "Allowed" to devastate their own city in a way that it will not get their own population riled up. So if they need to quickly move into a place, they can afford to level it and move in, they can't do it many times but there are leeway there. 

Russian on the other hand, needs every support they can get to keep this war going, it's one thing they are attacking and they can shield their civilian from the horror of war but they can't cover the fact that their soldier is not coming home, family member are going to know and they can't really suffer 50k death a year, which mean if the war drag on, the propaganda side in Russia is a lot more concerning than the Ukrainian. 

Russia would therefore need to focus on how this war is clean, doing humanitarian works, things that justify the number of losses to a point, what Ukrainian did to their own don't really sell to the Russian people, it has less of a value to domestic propaganda. Ukrainian on the other hand, can spin what happen on their own soil to whatever they want, they were attacked, Ukrainian want the Russian gone, want the war to end, and how it ends does not really concern Ukrainian that much, plus I don't think Ukrainian would digest Russian propaganda that much anyway.


----------



## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590825788936318976
> South Korea to deliver 100K 155mm shells to Ukraine with US to deliver


only several week , I wonder if in 8 year war with Iraq , we used that much 155mm shell


----------



## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> I will say, it has been Russian aim to garner domestic support to continue on with this war, not the Ukrainian. Not saying the Ukrainian can get away with more destruction on their own city, but there are "Allowed" to devastate their own city in a way that it will not get their own population riled up. So if they need to quickly move into a place, they can afford to level it and move in, they can't do it many times but there are leeway there.
> 
> Russian on the other hand, needs every support they can get to keep this war going, it's one thing they are attacking and they can shield their civilian from the horror of war but they can't cover the fact that their soldier is not coming home, family member are going to know and they can't really suffer 50k death a year, which mean if the war drag on, the propaganda side in Russia is a lot more concerning than the Ukrainian.
> 
> Russia would therefore need to focus on how this war is clean, doing humanitarian works, things that justify the number of losses to a point, what Ukrainian did to their own don't really sell to the Russian people, it has less of a value to domestic propaganda. Ukrainian on the other hand, can spin what happen on their own soil to whatever they want, they were attacked, Ukrainian want the Russian gone, want the war to end, and how it ends does not really concern Ukrainian that much, plus I don't think Ukrainian would digest Russian propaganda that much anyway.


But main sell of the russian side is how they are “protecting russians” in donbass/luhansk and now kherson/zaphirizhia areas. 

Ukranians leveling kherson and donbass city will provide perfect propaganda for the russians. Showing the destruction and civilian casualties. 

I think ukraine is taking this (what effect their action would have on russian war fatigue) into account. Showing restraint striking into russia, and showing restraint with collateral damage. Which is strategically sound.


----------



## Broccoli

BHAN85 said:


> I'm not Russia supporter, you're insane.
> 
> I live in West Europe.
> 
> And obviously I dont want a nuke falling over my head.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to be brave against a nuclear state and you dont have nukes, it's ok, go ahead.
> 
> But I'm not so brave like you.



Apparently Ukrainians are brave enough as Russia is retreating despite being a nuclear state.

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> But main sell of the russian side is how they are “protecting russians” in donbass/luhansk and now kherson/zaphirizhia areas.
> 
> Ukranians leveling kherson and donbass city will provide perfect propaganda for the russians. Showing the destruction and civilian casualties.
> 
> I think ukraine is taking this (what effect their action would have on russian war fatigue) into account. Showing restraint striking into russia, and showing restraint with collateral damage. Which is strategically sound.


That probably be true in March, April or May.....

The war is losing support quick, Russian don't really care about their sons are send to protect Russian. They care about their own Russian, if you know what I mean. 

Also, I didn't say there are no value of making propaganda, I am just saying their focus has change, it may not work now.


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## zectech

Zelensky asks for more and more weapons to crush Putin.

Germans have the foresight to build up to prevent a further European War, to make Europe an undesirable target.


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## Viet

FuturePAF said:


> The Russian are getting slaughtered at the river crossings. They may lose so many men in the next 48-72 hours that Putin will do something rash, to prevent being overthrown.
> 
> If it’s to protect his head, I don’t think anything is off the table.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590844444349124608


That will become very ugly.

40,000 men, hungry and desperate, rushing to narrow escape doors. Putin is waiting too long before he agrees to retreat. The evacuation with men and materials will take a week. Dumb.

Ukraine artillery will turn the river in red.







Ukrainian servicemen fire from a position on a frontline in Kherson. Reuters.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590989265399582721
Part of the bridge was blown up (By Russians ? Ukrainians?)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590988620499918849

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> That will become very ugly.
> 
> 40,000 men, hungry and desperate, rushing to narrow escape doors. Putin is waiting too long before he agrees to retreat. The evacuation with men and materials will take a week. Dumb.
> 
> Ukraine artillery will turn the river in red.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian servicemen fire from a position on a frontline in Kherson. Reuters.



It would be interesting to know what priority is being given to the withdrawl - esp over heavy weaponary.

Ukraine should show no mercy at the crossing. Russians have shown no mercy in their tactics - levelling entire cities and towns ..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591000520126509056
So much for the so called "controlled and planned withdrawal taking days of weeks". Russians as in Kharkiv ran away faster than the speed of light. If probably a good part of the personnel made it to the other side,they had most likely to abandon large part of their heavy weaponry.... we shall see in the coming days.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591011541071335430

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591013666820083712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591018407037906945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591019141062098944

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> It would be interesting to know what priority is being given to the withdrawl - esp over heavy weaponary.
> 
> Ukraine should show no mercy at the crossing. Russians have shown no mercy in their tactics - levelling entire cities and towns ..


What we are witnessing is another collapse in Russian defence.

A lot of report showing Russian Troop retreat across the river in panic, there are some picture and video show Russian try to row a rowboat cross the Dnieper. 

They probably won't be able to bring anything over 20 tons across with the makeshift bridge and ferry, which mean ay tank and APC will be left behind. 

After this. Ukraine have two choices. They can either

1.) Try to cross the Dnieper from Kherson and attack the Russian line. 
2.) Hold at Kherson and put majority of the troop toward East of Zaporizhya

The first one is quite straight forward; you ride on the momentum of Russian retreat and advance. That line is freshly made, which mean it is the weakest point. But the river itself present the challenge, because that would be a bottleneck for Ukrainian to go across the river. 

The second one is more tradition; you don't need to cross the Dnieper if you attack southward from Zaporizhya. But that line has been made since Feb/March, that line is going to be probably as tough, if not tougher than the one the Ukrainian try to crack Northeast of Kherson. 

Or the Ukrainian do choice number 3, which is do both...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591023484859482112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591025225084571649

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> It would be interesting to know what priority is being given to the withdrawl - esp over heavy weaponary.
> 
> Ukraine should show no mercy at the crossing. Russians have shown no mercy in their tactics - levelling entire cities and towns ..


Depending on what Putin’s generals think what are priorities? What’s more worth?
If they believe tanks as T90 are more worth than foot soldiers then they bring tanks to safety as first before soldiers. Russia has many people. That’s why Russian soldiers run away leaving heavy equipment behind as seen at Kharkiv.


----------



## Ali_Baba

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590985130579234816
>> Russians blew up the remaining parts of the Antonivskyi bridge... Looks like Russia is not planning to come back to "Russian" Kherson anytime soon.



jhungary said:


> What we are witnessing is another collapse in Russian defence.
> 
> A lot of report showing Russian Troop retreat across the river in panic, there are some picture and video show Russian try to row a rowboat cross the Dnieper.
> 
> They probably won't be able to bring anything over 20 tons across with the makeshift bridge and ferry, which mean ay tank and APC will be left behind.
> 
> After this. Ukraine have two choices. They can either
> 
> 1.) Try to cross the Dnieper from Kherson and attack the Russian line.
> 2.) Hold at Kherson and put majority of the troop toward East of Zaporizhya
> 
> The first one is quite straight forward; you ride on the momentum of Russian retreat and advance. That line is freshly made, which mean it is the weakest point. But the river itself present the challenge, because that would be a bottleneck for Ukrainian to go across the river.
> 
> The second one is more tradition; you don't need to cross the Dnieper if you attack southward from Zaporizhya. But that line has been made since Feb/March, that line is going to be probably as tough, if not tougher than the one the Ukrainian try to crack Northeast of Kherson.
> 
> Or the Ukrainian do choice number 3, which is do both...



Agree - the next move for Ukraine is to launch an attack from Zaporizhya and drive the landbridge between the eastern and western zones in half. 

The Dnieper does pose a problem for the Ukranian Armed forces now and the allies will need to provide alot of pontoons capable of transiting tanks to allow the Ukranian Army to cross the Dnieper and go for areas

Russia may want to try and go after all bridges that cross the Dnieper now with of slowing down Ukranian logistics and resupply but from what we have seen so far, their standoff weapons and systems do seem to lack the precision required to pull this off.

The reason question is if they do launch from Zaporizhya, do they head towards Mariupol first, or go for Melitopol. Mariupol has become a logistics hub for the Russian operations, ever since the Crimea bridge was blown up.

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## Ali_Baba

Ukrainian flag raised in Kherson as troops enter city


Ukraine is now in full control of the city of Kherson, with soldiers greeted in the main square by flag-waving locals who kissed, hugged, wept and chanted victory slogans after seeing them arrive.




www.dailymail.co.uk







> Russia's defence ministry said: 'At 05:00 Moscow time today, the redeployment of Russian units to the (eastern) bank of the Dnipro River was completed. During the redeployment, not a single piece of military hardware or weaponry was left behind. All Russian service personnel were moved across, there were no losses.'



Russians are claiming that the withdrawl is complete and that they did not leave anything behind.. lets see. They have had plenty of time to organise this retreat with the Russian Army wanting to do it many weeks ago.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591041723949797381

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591042494103683073

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukrainian flag raised in Kherson as troops enter city
> 
> 
> Ukraine is now in full control of the city of Kherson, with soldiers greeted in the main square by flag-waving locals who kissed, hugged, wept and chanted victory slogans after seeing them arrive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians are claiming that the withdrawl is complete and that they did not leave anything behind.. lets see. They have had plenty of time to organise this retreat with the Russian Army wanting to do it many weeks ago.


It would be a big trove of weaponry, probably will put the one they found in Izyum to shame.

I mean if Russia want to send Ukraine weapon, all they need to do is ask, you don't need to start a war so they can transfer their weapon to Ukraine....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591027142598356993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591029252052615169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591040309206880257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591045283445870592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591046086697058304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591048187187445760

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591043013673103366
The Battle of Kherson has been won! Kherson is liberated! Kherson is Ukraine!

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## FuturePAF

Ali_Baba said:


> It would be interesting to know what priority is being given to the withdrawl - esp over heavy weaponary.
> 
> Ukraine should show no mercy at the crossing. Russians have shown no mercy in their tactics - levelling entire cities and towns ..


The Russians want to save their best troops, resupply/rearm and build up their numbers over the winter, and make a big push come spring.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591054671904473088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591055347175018496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591055560879017984

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591051600336138240

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591058692941959168

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## Viet

Kherson is free.

Just unreal

Just weeks ago Putin declared annexation, the city, the people will belong to Russia forever, or at least 1,000 years.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591046820037562368

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## Reashot Xigwin

This is what fascists will never achieve. Freedom for Khershon, freedom for ukraine. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591057171306815490
I'm gonna assume a lot of them drowned in the attempt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590911908525539328

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## Reashot Xigwin

Overall I'm happy. Kherson is free, Thousands of Russians still trapped on the right side of the bank (unconfirmed but I have my source), the rest routed and being shelled at. 

I was promised bloodbath and I got one. Let's just say it's a good day to be me since I been calling out that the Russians armed forces are garbage since day one of the invasion & before. Damn it feels good being validated.

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## thetutle

It's a huge win. I didnt expect this. If they continue like this, they will win, I'm just not sure how much effort it took to achieve this and how long it can be sustained. If Russia continues this war for the next 5 years, can Ukraine continue this momentum? Will Ukraine eventually give up? I think it's all a matter or who can sustain it longer.


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## Vergennes

thetutle said:


> It's a huge win. I didnt expect this. If they continue like this, they will win, I'm just not sure how much effort it took to achieve this and how long it can be sustained. If Russia continues this war for the next 5 years, can Ukraine continue this momentum? Will Ukraine eventually give up? I think it's all a matter or who can sustain it longer.



Russians surely took a huge moral blow. Nobody in Russia wants to take this humiliating responsibility,Russia lost the only regional capital it captured since it invaded Ukraine,thousands of Russian soldiers died/wounded in vain. Huge moral boost for Ukraine. Now that the Dnipro will form a natural barrier to Kherson,Ukraine can free several brigades and heavy weaponry to reinforce its forces to the east and the south,expect an offensive soon towards Melitopol or Mariupol.

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> The Russians want to save their best troops, resupply/rearm and build up their numbers over the winter, and make a big push come spring.


The only problem is. At best Russia can salvage 20k troop to reuse somewhere in the East. 

Pulling out of Kherson would free upward of 60,000 Ukrainian troop. Again, depends on what the Ukrainian want to do in Kherson after this. There are 16 Brigade in the entire Kherson region, if the Russia all pull out, I would say the Ukrianian could leave 2 Brigade in Kherson and 2 Brigade in Nova Kakovka and then pull the 2 Brigade from Kryvyi Rih to the frontline (5th Tank and 21st National Guard Brigade is stationed in Kryvyi Rih) now that it no longer in the frontline. Which mean Ukraine can deploy upward of 14 Brigade anywhere they wanted.

This is not going to look good after Winter for the Russian....

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> The only problem is. At best Russia can salvage 20k troop to reuse somewhere in the East.
> 
> Pulling out of Kherson would free upward of 60,000 Ukrainian troop. Again, depends on what the Ukrainian want to do in Kherson after this. There are 16 Brigade in the entire Kherson region, if the Russia all pull out, I would say the Ukrianian could leave 2 Brigade in Kherson and 2 Brigade in Nova Kakovka and then pull the 2 Brigade from Kryvyi Rih to the frontline (5th Tank and 21st National Guard Brigade is stationed in Kryvyi Rih) now that it no longer in the frontline. Which mean Ukraine can deploy upward of 14 Brigade anywhere they wanted.
> 
> This is not going to look good after Winter for the Russian....



The Russians have already started digging trenches in Crimea. That shows you how well they think defending the south will go.


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## Viet

Is that real?

The “falaise” encirclement costs 50,000 German soldiers at the battle of France.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590858581812789249

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591066400449523712

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have already started digging trenches in Crimea. That shows you how well they think defending the south will go.


If I am the Ukrainian. I will push at least 10 Brigade toward Orikhiv, together with the 6 Brigade in the region, I will make a push toward both Vasylivka and Tormak and then converge on Melitopol. You cut the Russian in half and you can try to encircle the rest of Kherson Oblast and redeploy more combat force in the East to sweep up Svatove. Maybe before Christmas or After Christmas.

That's what I will do. I will not write out Crimea yet, but this is going to be a tough winter in Crimea...


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> If I am the Ukrainian. I will push at least 10 Brigade toward Orikhiv, together with the 6 Brigade in the region, I will make a push toward both Vasylivka and Tormak and then converge on Melitopol. You cut the Russian in half and you can try to encircle the rest of Kherson Oblast and redeploy more combat force in the East to sweep up Svatove. Maybe before Christmas or After Christmas.
> 
> That's what I will do. I will not write out Crimea yet, but this is going to be a tough winter in Crimea...


It’s better if Ukraine army go chasing thr retreating Russia army on the east river bank.

Don’t let them rest and relax.

Let’s them spend Christmas in Russia.

Once the entire Kherson is free, Crimea has no access to water supply, they will probably import waters from China.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591070753692463104

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> 40,000 men, hungry and desperate, rushing to narrow escape doors. Putin is waiting too long before he agrees to retreat. The evacuation with men and materials will take a week. Dumb.



The "mindgames" theory seem to be getting more backing now.

Russians had significantly fewer troops than was believed.

Russian brigades in Kherson were 1/3 to 1/2 of real on paper strength.

At most they had 20,000 at peak, and they were intentionally inflating digits on radio chatter.

This morning they got confirmation from locals, it was closer to few thousands who ran across the pontoon, but nowhere near the reported 10k.


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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> The only problem is. At best Russia can salvage 20k troop to reuse somewhere in the East.
> 
> Pulling out of Kherson would free upward of 60,000 Ukrainian troop. Again, depends on what the Ukrainian want to do in Kherson after this. There are 16 Brigade in the entire Kherson region, if the Russia all pull out, I would say the Ukrianian could leave 2 Brigade in Kherson and 2 Brigade in Nova Kakovka and then pull the 2 Brigade from Kryvyi Rih to the frontline (5th Tank and 21st National Guard Brigade is stationed in Kryvyi Rih) now that it no longer in the frontline. Which mean Ukraine can deploy upward of 14 Brigade anywhere they wanted.
> 
> This is not going to look good after Winter for the Russian....



That & the troops in kherson are the best troops Russians had in this war. That's not something you can just replaced. What are the Russians going to do. Use human wave tactic against modern military? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591025498788073472


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## Paul2

Reashot Xigwin said:


> That & the troops in kherson are the best troops Russians had in this war. That's not something you can just replaced. What are the Russians going to do. Use human wave tactic against modern military?



Not really. Russian marines, and airborne are very lightly armed, and lose on apples to apples comparison to average motorised.

Their BMD for example is easily penetrable by regular 50 cal, while infantry BMP can resist an autocannon.

They don't have normal ATGMs, only LAWs, and gun launched ATGMs on their BMDs.

Not to say they have no artillery sans self-propelled-mortars

So, they lose to even regular assault light infantry like AFU 128th brigade

Russian airborne, and marines are very different from Western counterparts.

They are a highly mechanised force very dependent on their vehicles.

They would've been fine in late cold war, but not today when Javelins, and guided weapons outranging them are everywhere.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591072975478231041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591074213380882435

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> It’s better if Ukraine army go chasing thr retreating Russia army on the east river bank.
> 
> Don’t let them rest and relax.
> 
> Let’s them spend Christmas in Russia.
> 
> Once the entire Kherson is free, Crimea has no access to water supply, they will probably import waters from China.


Crossing thru Kherson is almost impossible now, even with engineer bridge, you will meet with sporadic artillery fire from the Eastern Side, HIMARS cannot completely suppress the Russian gun. And then you can only cross the river from there in a small amount of troop and almost no heavies. Which would make Ukrainian a sitting duck when they cross.

If I have to cross the river to the Eastern Bank, I will try a fighting fjord over the dam upstream, I can cross with more troop and more heavy equipment, that way I will have a chance with artillery and HIMARS cover. But that is still too risky. 

I would choose a less risk approach, I know I will have to fight in Orikhiv but then I know I am numerical superior and have higher morale than the Russian. That give me the best opportunities. Because the other 2 are sort of a gamble. But then I don't know what the Ukrainian will do.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Drone wars starts now. Where's the shaheads at? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591033636085637120


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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> That & the troops in kherson are the best troops Russians had in this war. That's not something you can just replaced. What are the Russians going to do. Use human wave tactic against modern military?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591025498788073472


The Russian had already spend the best troop in this war, they are VDV and 1st Guard Tank Army. And to some extend, Wagner. The first two now only exist on paper and the last, well, they are recruiting convicts, how good can they be??

These troop in Kherson is regular mixed with mobilised troop, they are probably just regular army that look good on paper to deter Ukrainian advance. Those troop would have make up the number, if they can completely withdraw with their equipment, otherwise they are just going to be canon fodder to be used in the East. They may do the same thing they were doign in Kherson in Svatove or Starbolisk or even Bakhmut if Putin is that cruel, but they won't be able to withstand much.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Paul2 said:


> Not really. Russian marines, and airborne are very lightly armed, and lose on apples to apples comparison to average motorised.
> 
> Their BMD for example is easily penetrable by regular 50 cal, while infantry BMP can resist an autocannon.
> 
> They don't have ATGMs, and only LAWs instead.
> 
> Not to say they have no artillery sans mortars.
> 
> So, they lose to even regular assault light infantry like AFU 128th brigade



Still better trained than most of 'em mobiks. 

As I keep saying Russian losing in an inevitability. The only thing that are not certain is how badly they going to lose.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590975693705256960


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## Ali_Baba

@Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Where are you ??? - Lol - We are all missing you and your ideas of how Russian's can f--k each other to victory by making lots of babies ????????????????

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591075906696642560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591077933481099264

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> The Russian had already spend the best troop in this war, they are VDV and 1st Guard Tank Army. And to some extend, Wagner. The first two now only exist on paper and the last, well, they are recruiting convicts, how good can they be??
> 
> These troop in Kherson is regular mixed with mobilised troop, they are probably just regular army that look good on paper to deter Ukrainian advance. Those troop would have make up the number, if they can completely withdraw with their equipment, otherwise they are just going to be canon fodder to be used in the East. They may do the same thing they were doign in Kherson in Svatove or Starbolisk or even Bakhmut if Putin is that cruel, but they won't be able to withstand much.



Never Expect much from the russian. Their entire military now seems mostly consisted of mobiks/canon fodders. Their best isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. 

Right now a lot of their troops are stuck on the right bank. Ukraine should focus first on wiping them out 1st.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591049559504875520
Khersons liberation on US Veterans Day is a beautiful thing!

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Crossing thru Kherson is almost impossible now, even with engineer bridge, you will meet with sporadic artillery fire from the Eastern Side, HIMARS cannot completely suppress the Russian gun. And then you can only cross the river from there in a small amount of troop and almost no heavies. Which would make Ukrainian a sitting duck when they cross.
> 
> If I have to cross the river to the Eastern Bank, I will try a fighting fjord over the dam upstream, I can cross with more troop and more heavy equipment, that way I will have a chance with artillery and HIMARS cover. But that is still too risky.
> 
> I would choose a less risk approach, I know I will have to fight in Orikhiv but then I know I am numerical superior and have higher morale than the Russian. That give me the best opportunities. Because the other 2 are sort of a gamble. But then I don't know what the Ukrainian will do.


Ok. Is there any shallow place along the Knipro that Ukraine infantry can cross? Momentum is everything. Letting the Russians too much time to rest and they will build fortifications and resume attacking.
The Kherson Russian army is the most powerful one. Annihilate them would mean the war is almost over.
The Wagner hooligans, the chechens will run home if the Russia army is dead.

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## sammuel

~

Note how the usual Russia supporters , have evaporated from the thread . . .

~

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> Ok. Is there any shallow place along the Knipro that Ukraine infantry can cross? Momentum is everything. Letting the Russians too much time to rest and they will build fortifications and resume attacking.
> The Kherson Russian army is the most powerful one. Annihilate them would mean the war is almost over.
> The Wagner hooligans, the chechens will run home if the Russia army is dead.


There is just no way to cross. It would be like D-Day. Amphibious assault is the very last thing that will be chosen by Ukrainians. not gonna happen.


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## alimobin memon

Russians need lots of vodka now to forget this failure. Ukrainians definitely proved that russians are nothing but coldwar army in modern world. Had to admit I was so wrong. Ukraine deserves to not stop and take crimea back .

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> The "mindgames" theory seem to be getting more backing now.
> 
> Russians had significantly fewer troops than was believed.
> 
> Russian brigades in Kherson were 1/3 to 1/2 of real on paper strength.
> 
> At most they had 20,000 at peak, and they were intentionally inflating digits on radio chatter.
> 
> This morning they got confirmation from locals, it was closer to few thousands who ran across the pontoon, but nowhere near the reported 10k.


20,000 men would equal 4 brigades? Still a big fighting force. Understandable Putin wants to rescue them. In contrast the 320,000 mobis are not good. Only good as weaklings and cowards.
From the reports, most new mobis hardly survived a week or two.


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## Vergennes

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> Note how the usual Russia supporters , have evaporated from the thread . . .
> 
> ~



Kyiv was a feint,Chernihiv was a feint,Sumy was a feint,Kharkiv was a feint,Kherson was a faint,Lyman was a feint,Izyum and Kupiansk were a feint. Expect soon Melitopol and Mariupol as feints.

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## Reashot Xigwin

thetutle said:


> There is just no way to cross. It would be like D-Day. Amphibious assault is the very last thing that will be chosen by Ukrainians. not gonna happen.


D-Day style invasion. Imply the Russian have the equivalence of Antantikwall. The left bank of the dnipro are flat farmland and lower than the right one. Nowhere to hide for the russian from HIMARS and other artillery range. If it were up to me it's better to wait and see.


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## 1ndy

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> Note how the usual Russia supporters , have evaporated from the thread . . .
> 
> ~


I am waiting for flying scooter supporters.

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## FuturePAF

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have already started digging trenches in Crimea. That shows you how well they think defending the south will go.


Is it layers of trenches, some in the four regions Russia claims and Crimea or just Crimea?


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## BHAN85

Broccoli said:


> Apparently Ukrainians are brave enough as Russia is retreating despite being a nuclear state.



It's play with fire. Someday Russia could use a nuke against them

My remark was something simple: Complicated military strategies are useless against nukes if you dont have nukes.

I dont understand people who lost time thinking how would be a Russia conquest of West Europe non-nuclear states.

Just they drop several nukes and they win, that's all. Unconditional surrender.

I've never understood those ellaborate military strategies of conquere if you have nukes.






It's the simplest thing to cause more pain than a state can possibly endure.

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## thetutle

BHAN85 said:


> I dont understand people who lost time thinking how would be a Russia conquest of West Europe non-nuclear states.
> 
> Just they drop several nukes and they win, that's all. Unconditional surrender.
> 
> I never understood those ellaborate military strategies of conquere if you have nukes.


Russians are really nice people, they wouldn't do that. So no need to even worry about it.

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> 20,000 men would equal 4 brigades? Still a big fighting force. Understandable Putin wants to rescue them. In contrast the 320,000 mobis are not good. Only good as weaklings and cowards.
> From the reports, most new mobis hardly survived a week or two.



The actual number of regulars likely been 10,000 - 12,000, if their brigades were half strength, with the rest being irregulars like FSB, national guard, military police etc + few thousands of volunteers/mobiks who got there just few weeks prior.

I will give it to Russians for them fooling UA, and Western intel about their numbers in the regions to the end.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591101686063706113
Russian soldiers are building their own graves...


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## thetutle

"Withdrawl is a very sound operational decision" and Ukraine lost 12,000 dead in this operation. And russia lost nothing in terms of troops. 

300,000 Russian reservists on their way. 

This is Phyrric victory for ukranians. Russians will smash them from the east bank of the river. 

Ukraine is totally finished it seems. This is not retreat 

"there is no panic". 
"no panic at all". 
"this isn't defeat at all for Russia". 
"withdraw is a small strategic move, it's not like they are surrendering Crimea".

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591088243805941760


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## Ahmadbhutta01

Something I failed to see from Russia side is Russian missiles being very less destructive. Compare to American weapons we seen in Iraq shock and awe and Syria airbase attacked by trump we saw a missile causing massive damage , is it due to low payload in Russian missiles ?


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## F-22Raptor

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Something I failed to see from Russia side is Russian missiles being very less destructive. Compare to American weapons we seen in Iraq shock and awe and Syria airbase attacked by trump we saw a missile causing massive damage , is it due to low payload in Russian missiles ?



Russian missiles are very inaccurate and their ISR and targeting are even worse

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## Paul2

So, in the end, if it were Russians who kept significantly less troops in Kherson than UA, and US intel believed, then it was them who made it a successfull decoy op.

AFU had 8 brigades in Kherson, while Russians held 4 understrength one, while making everybody to believe they had almost double of that, and holding that huge part of Ukrainian military there for nothing.


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## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> So, in the end, if it were Russians who kept significantly less troops in Kherson than UA, and US intel believed, then it was them who made it a successfull decoy op.
> 
> AFU had 8 brigades in Kherson, while Russians held 4 understrength one, while making everybody to believe they had almost double of that, and holding that huge part of Ukrainian military there for nothing.


Sounds like a resounding russian victory and also a successful feint.

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> Sounds like a resounding russian victory and also a successful feint.



Your kidding right? Kherson was by far the most strategically important city left in the war. 

The Russians have been humiliated

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590912476572708864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590787393573228544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591043316220850177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591099379842170880


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## Viet

thetutle said:


> "Withdrawl is a very sound operational decision" and Ukraine lost 12,000 dead in this operation. And russia lost nothing in terms of troops.
> 
> 300,000 Russian reservists on their way.
> 
> This is Phyrric victory for ukranians. Russians will smash them from the east bank of the river.
> 
> Ukraine is totally finished it seems. This is not retreat
> 
> "there is no panic".
> "no panic at all".
> "this isn't defeat at all for Russia".
> "withdraw is a small strategic move, it's not like they are surrendering Crimea".


Yes a big victory by Russia army. A very sound decision otherwise they will fall to death by hunger.
Sometimes it’s smarter accepting a defeat and move on, and not try to paint a flying rosy pig.


----------



## The SC

F-22Raptor said:


> Your kidding right? Kherson was by far the most strategically important city left in the war.
> 
> The Russians have been humiliated


There are other POV saying that Russia has just nullified and retrieved the best and meanest card that was still in UAF hands ..i.e, blowing up the Kakhovke dam and sinking Kherson and all its area.. now that card is in the hands of RAF..!


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## zartosht

Im laughing at all the clowns declaring victory hahahaah. 

Why is kiev regime now suddenly open to talks?

Russian strategy since the beginning of the war has beem consistent. They will not defend a territory on bad odds. They will always exchange captured land for ukie blood. 

It is laughable. Get over the emotional propaganda, and you see that you lost 25% of your country to 100k men while you mobilized everything you had. Now the enemy is mobilizing a 1 million man army for a massive blitz that you cant stop

Its pointless to argue with emotional twitter clowns who dont understand anything about war. 

Time will tell. I am 100% the winter blitzkrieg will break the ukie necks. Until then, only a simple minded moron (average western shitstream media consumer) is celebrating a ukie victory 

Hopefully you wont cry again like you did once shaheds took the ukies back to the stone ages with no running wter or electricity right bfore a brutal winter

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> Your kidding right? Kherson was by far the most strategically important city left in the war.
> 
> The Russians have been humiliated


If you believe the comment I was quoting you will come to the same conclusion as I did. Even Scott Ritter said Russia is winning


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## F-22Raptor

zartosht said:


> Im laughing at all the clowns declaring victory hahahaah.
> 
> Why is kiev regime now suddenly open to talks?
> 
> Russian strategy since the beginning of the war has beem consistent. They will not defend a territory on bad odds. They will always exchange captured land for ukie blood.
> 
> It is laughable. Get over the emotional propaganda, and you see that you lost 25% of your country to 100k men while you mobilized everything you had. Now the enemy is mobilizing a 1 million man army for a massive blitz that you cant stop
> 
> Its pointless to argue with emotional twitter clowns who dont understand anything about war.
> 
> Time will tell. I am 100% the winter blitzkrieg will break the ukie necks. Until then, only a simple minded moron (average western shitstream media consumer) is celebrating a ukie victory
> 
> Hopefully you wont cry again like you did once shaheds took the ukies back to the stone ages with no running wter or electricity right bfore a brutal winter




After the loss of Kherson, Russia will hold about 15% of Ukraine, 8% of that prior to February. 

The Russians have been humiliated and there will be no winter blitzkrieg. Cope some more

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## zartosht

F-22Raptor said:


> After the loss of Kherson, Russia will hold about 15% of Ukraine, 8% of that prior to February.
> 
> The Russians have been humiliated and there will be no winter blitzkrieg. Cope some more



It means nothing but lines on a map. The Russian army is intact and the strategic equation has not only not changed, but its gotten worse for the ukies

The Russian army is literally growing exponentially by the day. While the exhausted ukies are throwing 60 year old grandpas to charge fortified Russian positions with 0 regard for their own mens lives

Russians value their men, ukies (or their american masters to be more specific) have less then 0 value for ukie cannon fodder lives. 

This might give you a propaganda victory here and there. But will be strategic suicide long terrm. War is just beginning

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## thetutle

zartosht said:


> It means nothing but lines on a map. The Russian army is intact and the strategic equation has not only not changed, but its gotten worse for the ukies
> 
> The Russian army is literally growing exponentially by the day. While the exhausted ukies are throwing 60 year old grandpas to charge fortified Russian positions with 0 regard for their own mens lives
> 
> Russians value their men, ukies (or their american masters to be more specific) have less then 0 value for ukie cannon fodder lives.
> 
> This might give you a propaganda victory here and there. But will be strategic suicide long terrm. War is just beginning


Russia is doing very very well isn't it?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591043316220850177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590988852243869696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590982125578498048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590984222696607744

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## zartosht

KaiserX said:


> Russia is doing very very well isn't it?



Are you able to make coherent arguments or just twitter taunts? 

Yes russia loose ukies stronkk. West winnzzz. You can have your chimpanzee level circle jerk twitter convos. Or have actual facts based discussion on logic.

Are the Russian lines breaking? Not even the most pro western propagandist is claiming that. Infact alot of informed ukies are actually extremely weary of a trap. As they know the Russian army is fully intact and withdrawing on its own terms. 

I understand humas are emotional animals and seeing lines on a map change bring out That animilstic instinct inside. However, people with military knowledge are not celebrating and are extremely suspicious

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## F-22Raptor

zartosht said:


> It means nothing but lines on a map. The Russian army is intact and the strategic equation has not only not changed, but its gotten worse for the ukies
> 
> The Russian army is literally growing exponentially by the day. While the exhausted ukies are throwing 60 year old grandpas to charge fortified Russian positions with 0 regard for their own mens lives
> 
> Russians value their men, ukies (or their american masters to be more specific) have less then 0 value for ukie cannon fodder lives.
> 
> This might give you a propaganda victory here and there. But will be strategic suicide long terrm. War is just beginning



This is what I refer to as pure copium.  

It’s not even worth responding to

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## zartosht

F-22Raptor said:


> This is what I refer to as pure copium.
> 
> It’s not even worth responding to



Im sorry did i rain on your “ukraine winnzzz west stronk” parade with some facts?

Sorry… but im not sorry. Sit on it and spin, and have your tissues ready when the inevitable Russian winter blitz comes

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> This is what I refer to as pure copium.
> 
> It’s not even worth responding to



Even Russians aren't on this level of copium,LMAO.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591114915770957824

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## BHAN85

thetutle said:


> Russians are really nice people, they wouldn't do that. So no need to even worry about it.



USA worry about that, but they have a lot of anti ballistic missiles shields.

USA is a smart and sovereign state.

And they only dare to make troubles to Russia when they completed several deployments of their ABM shields (2014).

But the dumbshits corrupts of European rulers dont worry about that because they are idiots and corrupt.





__





How USA dominates European rulers


Some people can't understand why Europe suicide themselves energetically/economically/militarily facing Russia. Here is the answer: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/05/15/the-kremlin-never-learns-2/ Years ago I was in the Pentagon in the office of a very high official being offered an...



defence.pk





If someday Russia drop nukes over Europe, the corrupt rulers will take their bags full of money and go to Miami.

You remember the respect of American rulers about Russia decades ago, that respect is lost because technology has developed and particularly American ABM shields have developed a lot.

But Europe has not reasons to lost that respect, except the American bribes and their drunkenness of American lies.


----------



## zartosht

Vergennes said:


> Even Russians aren't on this level of copium,LMAO.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591114915770957824



What do you think will happen when the Russians are fully mobilized? 

Its obvious the ukies threw everything they had to try and gain as much territory as they can before the Russians finish fully mobilizing. 

Now they want to “negotiate”. As they know they have gone as far as they possibly can and ita going to be downhill from here on out (almost an exact mirror of the last ditch german offensive of ww2)

Those are the facts. The russian army is intact. Even the ukies themselves acknowledge this with their extremely cautious approach

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> USA worry about that, but they have a lot of anti ballistic missiles shields.
> 
> USA is a smart and sovereign state.
> 
> And they only dare to make troubles to Russia when they completed several deployments of their ABM shields (2014).
> 
> But the dumbshits corrupts of European rulers dont worry about that because they are idiots and corrupt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How USA dominates European rulers
> 
> 
> Some people can't understand why Europe suicide themselves energetically/economically/militarily facing Russia. Here is the answer: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/05/15/the-kremlin-never-learns-2/ Years ago I was in the Pentagon in the office of a very high official being offered an...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If someday Russia drop nukes over Europe, the corrupt rulers will take their bags full of money and go to Miami.
> 
> You remember the respect of American rulers about Russia decades ago, that respect is lost because technology has developed and particularly American ABM shields have developed a lot.
> 
> But Europe has not reasons to lost that respect, except the American bribes and their drunkenness of American lies.


Come on bro, you sound like a sour loser, stop EU bashing, let’s celebrate the victory of Ukraine army at Kherson over the orcs, sorry, I mean, the Russia army.

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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Come on bro, you sound like a sour loser, stop EU bashing, let’s celebrate the victory of Ukraine army at Kherson over the orcs, sorry, I mean, the Russia army.


In the short term things are going ok.
In the long term we dont know.


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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> In the short term things are going ok.
> In the long term we dont know.


There is a saying in the long term we are dead. Watch out global warming bro.

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## A.P. Richelieu

FuturePAF said:


> The Russians want to save their best troops, resupply/rearm and build up their numbers over the winter, and make a big push come spring.


And I want to win the 100 meters sprint in the next Olympics.
Not sure who has the better chance.

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## Vergennes

zartosht said:


> What do you think will happen when the Russians are fully mobilized?
> 
> Its obvious the ukies threw everything they had to try and gain as much territory as they can before the Russians finish fully mobilizing.
> 
> Now they want to “negotiate”. As they know they have gone as far as they possibly can and ita going to be downhill from here on out (almost an exact mirror of the last ditch german offensive of ww2)
> 
> Those are the facts. The russian army is intact. Even the ukies themselves acknowledge this with their extremely cautious approach



It is the Russians who are actually pushing for negociations,not the Ukrainians. Russian army is so intact that they lost thousands of tanks and armored vehicles,they are so intact that they are relying on poorly equipped and trained chmobiks and wagnerites. The Russian army no longer looks like an army prior to 24th february,but a rag tag militia. And don't tell me they are sending second tier forces and that the real russian army is "waiting at home for NATO".

Russians are justifying their garbage performance by saying they are fighting against NATO,while they are losing against Ukrainians armed with our surplus. Against NATO Russians would get pulverized plain and simple.

Obviously for dudes like you who have been fed about fairytales stories about how Russian armed forces were so great,the awakening is brutal as you can see this army is only composed of corrupt drunkards.

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> Is it layers of trenches, some in the four regions Russia claims and Crimea or just Crimea?


The Russian have 3 Defensive line on the other side of Dnieper opposite Kherson, another one at the 2 choke points from Crossing into Crimea. 

Would not say the 3 lines are the best place for Russian troop to be in now. It's out in the open and out in the cold. At least Ukrainian would have building cover or basement for winter. Russian winter in the Kherson line would be like in a WW1 style trenches. And they can't go anywhere because doing so will just abandoning their position completely in Kherson and Southern Zaporizhya

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> It's play with fire. Someday Russia could use a nuke against them
> 
> My remark was something simple: Complicated military strategies are useless against nukes if you dont have nukes.
> 
> I dont understand people who lost time thinking how would be a Russia conquest of West Europe non-nuclear states.
> 
> Just they drop several nukes and they win, that's all. Unconditional surrender.
> 
> I've never understood those ellaborate military strategies of conquere if you have nukes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the simplest thing to cause more pain than a state can possibly endure.


And you are so uneducated that You do not know that NATO has nukes.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> So, in the end, if it were Russians who kept significantly less troops in Kherson than UA, and US intel believed, then it was them who made it a successfull decoy op.
> 
> AFU had 8 brigades in Kherson, while Russians held 4 understrength one, while making everybody to believe they had almost double of that, and holding that huge part of Ukrainian military there for nothing.


Ukraine have way more than 8 Brigade in Kherson



jhungary said:


> Many analysts believe the Withdraw from Kherson is to pull those 20,000 troops in Kherson north into Bakhmut to make a difference. The problem is, while Russia can pull 20,000 exhausted troop from Kherson, depends on how Ukraine wants to tackle south of Dnieper. They can take half the force out (Which would be 8 Brigade) or all but 2 brigade, which will leave 14 brigade free to move East. 14 Brigade is about 60,000 men...as each Brigade are aroudn 4500 men. Or they can just move unit from Odessa and Kryvyi Rih and redploy the entire line toward the East.
> 
> View attachment 895367
> 
> 
> This is OSINT map on Kherson DIrection as of Nov 10, each unit with a "X" marked above is a Brigade, this show 15 Brigade in the Kherson immediate area. But then again this is OSINT, this will not show everything, most likely the reserve force hidden somewhere.



There are 14 on the frontline, and 2 at the edge, then there should be Blocking Unit and Reserve Unit that probably not being shown on this OSINT map. Ukraine easily have over 16 Brigade in the area between Dudchany and Kherson before the Russian Line Collaspe. 

Russian most likely did have 20,000 troop but large majority are mobilised soldier and regular National Guard brought in since March to quell unrest, they have up to 8000 National Guardsmen in the area, and probably half the number of Mobik. Do bear in mind even their position is untenable, they did fend off Ukrainian advance for at least 2 months from snihurivka to dudchany , which mean there must be some regular fighting troop that's doing the push back. Not enough for them to couter attack but enough to resist the Ukrainian push.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

F-22Raptor said:


> This is what I refer to as pure copium.
> 
> It’s not even worth responding to


It is worth a press on the ignore button. That was my conclusion.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Ok. Is there any shallow place along the Knipro that Ukraine infantry can cross? Momentum is everything. Letting the Russians too much time to rest and they will build fortifications and resume attacking.
> The Kherson Russian army is the most powerful one. Annihilate them would mean the war is almost over.
> The Wagner hooligans, the chechens will run home if the Russia army is dead.


very unlikely. It would be quite suicidal until at least Ukrainian Artillery and HIMARS move into position, and then they will meet strong resistance on the other side of the bank. The entire Western part of the river was designed that so it would be higher than the Eastern bank because of City like Kherson and Nova Kakhovka would be protected by a levee when the Dnieper overflow (Mena the farmland on the Eastern Side of the river will flood instead of the city). Which mean they will enter the water in deep end and come up shallow, that exposed a lot of troops moving to the East.

I think Ukrainian did pound the Russian during the retreat, and not all of them are able to withdraw.


----------



## FuturePAF

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And I want to win the 100 meters sprint in the next Olympics.
> Not sure who has the better chance.


I think you have a better chance 



jhungary said:


> The Russian have 3 Defensive line on the other side of Dnieper opposite Kherson, another one at the 2 choke points from Crossing into Crimea.
> 
> Would not say the 3 lines are the best place for Russian troop to be in now. It's out in the open and out in the cold. At least Ukrainian would have building cover or basement for winter. Russian winter in the Kherson line would be like in a WW1 style trenches. And they can't go anywhere because doing so will just abandoning their position completely in Kherson and Southern Zaporizhya


Do you think the Ukrainians will pound them all winter and keep pushing them back, or also need to pause somewhat for winter?

It seems like now is the time for the Ukrainians to press their advantage and push the Russians back all the way out of their country, as fast as possible.


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## jhungary

The SC said:


> There are other POV saying that Russia has just nullified and retrieved the best and meanest card that was still in UAF hands ..i.e, blowing up the Kakhovke dam and sinking Kherson and all its area.. now that card is in the hands of RAF..!


lol, it would be pretty dumb to flood the Dnieper now that Russian is at the LOWER bank of the river mouth, blowing up the dam will flood both Kherson and the remaining defensive Russian position on the East Bank. If they do that, the Russian may as well withdraw from the entire Kherson Oblast. Because you cannot defend that area, not to mention whoever manning those defensive position will be drown in the flood.

Bear in mind Kherson is higher than the sea level (around 200ft above according to this topological map) while the East bank farmland is AT sea level, The flood water in Kherson *WILL* subside, the farmland in the East will not...









Kherson topographic map, elevation, terrain


Visualization and sharing of free topographic maps. Kherson, Херсонська міська громада, Kherson Raion, Kherson Oblast, 73000-73480, Ukraine.




en-us.topographic-map.com

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> Do you think the Ukrainians will pound them all winter and keep pushing them back, or also need to pause somewhat for winter?
> 
> It seems like now is the time for the Ukrainians to press their advantage and push the Russians back all the way out of their country, as fast as possible.


No Doubt in my mind Ukraine is going to pound the Russian position on the East Bank all winter. They will keep doing that until Russian leave those area. 

Another thing to mention is that with Kherson taken back to Ukraine, it put Crimea around 10 km into HIMARS Range. This is probably more significant than the troop in the frontline, which mean While Ukraine will probably not going to strike inside Crimea, it does gives them 10Km buffer to hit any supply point between Crimea and the frontline troop, the Russian troop can probably last this winter in WW1 style trench with Ukrainian bombardment, but will they last that long if their supply is constantly being interrupted by the Ukrainian??

Now that's a fair question people should ask

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590912476572708864
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590787393573228544
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591043316220850177
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591099379842170880


This trashbin Will Schryver again. 

1. with eyes in sky from Nato they shipped 3.500 pieces of (heavy) equipment? On a barge bridge? Who is he kidding. 

2. Grinding Nato? Nato is giving in the single percentages of its military budget as aid. In the meantime russia has more then 7.700 confirmed losses. Talk about grinding…same for russian troops…
Nato on other han is getting stronger then ever with europe re-arming and new countries joining. 

In meantime EU gas reserves are 95% and rising, with gas prices falling and set to fall greatly during worldwide recession. And gas and oil…russias economic lifeline…its gonna go under…

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591115047891263494

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## The SC




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## Viet

jhungary said:


> very unlikely. It would be quite suicidal until at least Ukrainian Artillery and HIMARS move into position, and then they will meet strong resistance on the other side of the bank. The entire Western part of the river was designed that so it would be higher than the Eastern bank because of City like Kherson and Nova Kakhovka would be protected by a levee when the Dnieper overflow (Mena the farmland on the Eastern Side of the river will flood instead of the city). Which mean they will enter the water in deep end and come up shallow, that exposed a lot of troops moving to the East.
> 
> I think Ukrainian did pound the Russian during the retreat, and not all of them are able to withdraw.


Ok Himars artillery is the best friend. 30,000 russians now on east bank. How will they be supplied? They need to bring in hundreds thousands of tons of foods and ammo. That would not be easy. they retreated from Kherson because they were unable to feed the troops.

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## The SC

ZeGerman said:


> This trashbin Will Schryver again.
> 
> 1. with eyes in sky from Nato they shipped 3.500 pieces of (heavy) equipment? On a barge bridge? Who is he kidding.
> 
> 2. Grinding Nato? Nato is giving in the single percentages of its military budget as aid. In the meantime russia has more then 7.700 confirmed losses. Talk about grinding…same for russian troops…
> Nato on other han is getting stronger then ever with europe re-arming and new countries joining.
> 
> In meantime EU gas reserves are 95% and rising, with gas prices falling and set to fall greatly during worldwide recession. And gas and oil…russias economic lifeline…its gonna go under…


Concentrate buddy.. the Russians had 2 big bridges and and a railway one to move all their heavy equipment.. and when that was done.. they simply blew up the bridges..

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Do bear in mind even their position is untenable, they did fend off Ukrainian advance for at least 2 months from snihurivka to dudchany , which mean there must be some regular fighting troop that's doing the push back. Not enough for them to couter attack but enough to resist the Ukrainian push.



AFU reported them regularly driving Russians as far back as Kyselivka in summer, with photo proofs, just to have to retreat due to RU artillery coming from outskirts of Kherson, and from long range firebases from the East

I doubt RU ever had enough "meat" to directly confront AFU armoured pushes besides few strongpoints like Snihurivka

A man from the unit whom I gave octocopters in Poland says 90% of the time they just sat, and waited for most of July-August, and 10% they repositioned to spoil RU recon.

For 2 months I been silent, now can tell. The August, and September during which I been silent on PDF were an adventure of a lifetime.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The Virgin Russian military expert:
- Can personally identify which type of T-72 tanks through visual alone. Ended up using it to identify burned tank husk. 
- Have years of training as opfor by using Russian military weapons and tactics. Believing them to be capable. The Russian ended losing to an enemy 1/10 of its size. 

The Chad Russophobe:
- Russia lost because their culture and people are inferior to superior western technology and race. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591101133984235521

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## RoadAmerica

thetutle said:


> "Withdrawl is a very sound operational decision" and Ukraine lost 12,000 dead in this operation. And russia lost nothing in terms of troops.
> 
> 300,000 Russian reservists on their way.
> 
> This is Phyrric victory for ukranians. Russians will smash them from the east bank of the river.
> 
> Ukraine is totally finished it seems. This is not retreat
> 
> "there is no panic".
> "no panic at all".
> "this isn't defeat at all for Russia".
> "withdraw is a small strategic move, it's not like they are surrendering Crimea".


How is Scotty still taking, guess he really needs that paycheck from Russia 🤣

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## Mista

Vergennes said:


> Kyiv was a feint,Chernihiv was a feint,Sumy was a feint,Kharkiv was a feint,Kherson was a faint,Lyman was a feint,Izyum and Kupiansk were a feint. Expect soon Melitopol and Mariupol as feints.



The whole invasion is a feint by Russia to actually give Ukraine more weapons.

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## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> Im laughing at all the clowns declaring victory hahahaah.
> 
> Why is kiev regime now suddenly open to talks?
> 
> Russian strategy since the beginning of the war has beem consistent. They will not defend a territory on bad odds. They will always exchange captured land for ukie blood.
> 
> It is laughable. Get over the emotional propaganda, and you see that you lost 25% of your country to 100k men while you mobilized everything you had. Now the enemy is mobilizing a 1 million man army for a massive blitz that you cant stop
> 
> Its pointless to argue with emotional twitter clowns who dont understand anything about war.
> 
> Time will tell. I am 100% the winter blitzkrieg will break the ukie necks. Until then, only a simple minded moron (average western shitstream media consumer) is celebrating a ukie victory
> 
> Hopefully you wont cry again like you did once shaheds took the ukies back to the stone ages with no running wter or electricity right bfore a brutal winter


Back singing the same old tune 🤣


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Ok Himars artillery is the best friend. 30,000 russians now on east bank. How will they be supplied? They need to bring in hundreds thousands of tons of foods and ammo. That would not be easy. they retreated from Kherson because they were unable to feed the troops.


They can't, that's why Kherson is more important than anywhere else, there are no way they can resupply a large force with their supply line being interdicted by the Ukrainian. That's why I said the chances of Russia completely lose this war is there once Ukraine took Kherson, because that give them a choice to defeat the entire Russian Army in Ukraine, not just post 2014 line but the entire country, in detail. They can isolate each bit and attack them with overwhelm local superiority and then move on the next one, and then the next one until there are no more Russian pocket in Ukraine. 

Unless Russia now started to get their act together and found a way to counter those HIMARS and Western Artillery and Intelligence that feeding those Artillery, I don't see how Russia can turn this around. pumping more men in an already dired supply situation won't help, in fact, it will only get worse.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Yes, if Russia loses Nova Kakokva, it dam up the fresh water from the Dnieper, Ukraine can stop that supply and then Russia will need to either desalinate sea water or truck drinkable water to Crimea. This is going be bad for the already damaged Kerch Bridge.



They have plenty of groundwater in Crimea for human consumption for now.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> AFU reported them regularly driving Russians as far back as Kyselivka in summer, with photo proofs, just to have to retreat due to RU artillery coming from outskirts of Kherson, and from long range firebases from the East
> 
> I doubt RU ever had enough "meat" to directly confront AFU armoured pushes besides few strongpoints like Snihurivka
> 
> A man from the unit whom I gave octocopters in Poland says 90% of the time they just sat, and waited for most of July-August, and 10% they repositioned to spoil RU recon.
> 
> For 2 months I been silent, now can tell. The August, and September during which I been silent on PDF were an adventure of a lifetime.


It had been see-sawing since late August as far as I know. And from then it's pretty clear that Ukrainian is not willing to push but Russian also unwilling to pushback, that's how I know Kherson is going to fall (Which is why I keep saying Russia would be lucky if they still hold Kherson after winter)

When I see how the Ukrainian materialise 10 Brigade out of nowhere in the East without ANYONE knowing, not even the American. I know once they pull off that, it's going to be the same thing in Kherson, I estimated the Ukrainian troop number in September is around 20,000, probably double that during October, and before the Russian line folded, it's around 70,000 in the area with 16 Brigade or more.

They move a lot of troops in the area, and while they were under Press Blackout, but it seems like Russian know they are again being outnumbered, that's why they decided to bolt instead of fighting. And that massing of force in just 2 months' time is amazing, and that's what win Kherson for them without a fight.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591111841199312896
Lets fcking go!!!

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## Ali_Baba

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591111841199312896
> Lets fcking go!!!



That must be the Ukranians taking "delivery". No way will they keep that many together now - far too valuable an asset for that level of concentration in wartime conditions.


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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> Im sorry did i rain on your “ukraine winnzzz west stronk” parade with some facts?
> 
> Sorry… but im not sorry. Sit on it and spin, and have your tissues ready when the inevitable Russian winter blitz comes


Can we screenshot this? Hahaha

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## Ali_Baba

Putin 'offered surrender terms by West' as he loses control of Kherson


The plan would see Putin give up all territory he currently occupies in Ukraine except Crimea, which would become a demilitarized zone, in return for avoiding war crimes prosecution.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Putin just been given exit ramp. If he does not take it - then he will for sure lose Crimea as punishment and Ukraine will be given a whole series of weapons that has been denied up until now ...

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## Reashot Xigwin

No equipment was left behind said the Russian mod

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591119281965903872

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> They have plenty of groundwater in Crimea for human consumption for now.


Well, probably worth around 3 months, not going to be enough for them to last over winter.


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## ZeGerman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> No equipment was left behind said the Russian mod
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591119281965903872
> View attachment 895706


@The SC 
Thats already more then the max 3 losses from your source buddy….


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## jhungary

By the way, for those who are curious about the pace of Ukrainian advance in this Advance in Kherson. 

It's 59 km in 1 day.

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## aziqbal

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591111841199312896
> Lets fcking go!!!



is this not old or is it new?

Wow so many HIMARS, a single HIMAR can take out weeks if not months of Russian artillery and ammunition


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## aziqbal

jhungary said:


> Well, probably worth around 3 months, not going to be enough for them to last over winter.



I think Russia is preparing 120,000 of the mobilised troops to be trained by Spring 2023, followed up by another 240,000 troops by summer, they have 6 months to solve the HIMAR problem

at the start of the War Ukraine drones were hammering the Russians, laser pointers were "painting" the ground vehicles and laser guided shells from artillery were finding their marks with deadly accuracy even if the Russian vehicles were moving, Russia found a way to jam the drones and neutralise them by summer the drone issue was solved and Russian marched forward

I wonder if Russia has ever captured a HIMAR, they would be too valuable and getting a block on their GPS signals would go a long way in solving the HIMAR problem

if Russian can solve HIMAR issue and train enough troops I wonder if we will see the historical and tradition Russian counter attack which broke the back of Napoleon and Wehrmacht, a Russian withdrawal always has me nervous and reminds me of the calm before the storm

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## aziqbal

Reashot Xigwin said:


> No equipment was left behind said the Russian mod
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591119281965903872
> View attachment 895706




Ukraine is not falling for the trap quite yet and celebration in West seem over hyped lets calm down

Russia still has inexhaustible resources and the military and missile factories are going flat out, by 2023 they will replenish much of the Kalibr and Iskander missiles around the same time when Iran will start running out, Iran is a stop gap unit Russian industries go into over drive

the question is how much progress will Ukraine make over the Winter, because the Summer might belong to Ukraine but Winter is always for Russia talking from a historical perspective

next 6 months are very important in this war, Ukraine either pushes hard and forces Russian to the negotiating Table or stands till for a Russian counter

Ukraine needs 2 things, C-Ram air defence and tons more HIMARS

they could do with F16/F18 to ensure the skies are kept clear but I highly doubt West will give F16/F18

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## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> I think Russia is preparing 120,000 of the mobilised troops to be trained by Spring 2023, followed up by another 240,000 troops by summer, they have 6 months to solve the HIMAR problem
> 
> at the start of the War Ukraine drones were hammering the Russians, laser pointers were "painting" the ground vehicles and laser guided shells from artillery were finding their marks with deadly accuracy even if the Russian vehicles were moving, Russia found a way to jam the drones and neutralise them by summer the drone issue was solved and Russian marched forward
> 
> I wonder if Russia has ever captured a HIMAR, they would be too valuable and getting a block on their GPS signals would go a long way in solving the HIMAR problem
> 
> if Russian can solve HIMAR issue and train enough troops I wonder if we will see the historical and tradition Russian counter attack which broke the back of Napoleon and Wehrmacht, a Russian withdrawal always has me nervous and reminds me of the calm before the storm


You can't hunt HIMARS with troops, they are about 50-80km away from a frontline, where Russia on a good day make 1 Km a day progress, it would take 50 days even if the HIMARS did not move for the Russian to catch up on them. And they are too mobile to be hunted for any ground force, if Russia is betting on their ground force on those HIMARS, they are going to lose big.....

Also, you can't train 120,000 in 3 months, I don't know what kind of Training Russian is offering, but in the US, it takes on average 4 Soldier to train 1 recruit. There are no 4 to 1 ratio in Russia if you are talking about A complete training with Weapon manipulation, Tactics, Strategy and Military Tradition. The entire cadre would be probably equal to the entire Russian army do nothing but train those recruits, even then I don't know if they can pull off a number of 120,000.

And finally, Russia had already used half of those Mobilised troop, unless Putin fancy another round of Mobilisation, he is not getting 240,000 troop trained up next summer, it would be lucky if he gets 60,000. On the other hand, Ukrainian southern strength is estimated at 80-100,000 just in the south, and that is before any newly trained troop coming in. And you need 3 to 1 to overwhelm the defender, Russia is nowhere near the number enough to make any pushes.

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine hits jackpot as 'crate after crate' of ammo found in Kherson


Ukraine's armed forces have made a welcome discovery in newly liberated Kherson as "crate after crate" of Russian ammunition is captured.




www.express.co.uk





>> And the Russian left behind ALOT of ammunition aswell - every sign of a unorganised rout rather than an organised withdrawl..

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## aziqbal

jhungary said:


> You can't hunt HIMARS with troops, they are about 50-80km away from a frontline, where Russia on a good day make 1 Km a day progress, it would take 50 days even if the HIMARS did not move for the Russian to catch up on them. And they are too mobile to be hunted for any ground force, if Russia is betting on their ground force on those HIMARS, they are going to lose big.....
> 
> Also, you can't train 120,000 in 3 months, I don't know what kind of Training Russian is offering, but in the US, it takes on average 4 Soldier to train 1 recruit. There are no 4 to 1 ratio in Russia if you are talking about A complete training with Weapon manipulation, Tactics, Strategy and Military Tradition. The entire cadre would be probably equal to the entire Russian army do nothing but train those recruits, even then I don't know if they can pull off a number of 120,000.
> 
> And finally, Russia had already used half of those Mobilised troop, unless Putin fancy another round of Mobilisation, he is not getting 240,000 troop trained up next summer, it would be lucky if he gets 60,000. On the other hand, Ukrainian southern strength is estimated at 80-100,000 just in the south, and that is before any newly trained troop coming in. And you need 3 to 1 to overwhelm the defender, Russia is nowhere near the number enough to make any pushes.



I dont think anyone has proposed hunting HIMARS by ground rather by air 

however even advanced fighters like Su35 and Su34 have not really carried out SEAD/DEAD missions 

the lack of targeting pods on these advanced aircraft is another big mess 

even Mig31 is launching from over Belarus, if Russian can solve these issues they will be back in the game by next year 

but I agree its a big question mark


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## fallschirmjager786

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ysm2ip

Ukrainians re-captured a Mi-17 helo captured by the Russians and abandoned in Kherson. So much for taking all the equipment.


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## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> I dont think anyone has proposed hunting HIMARS by ground rather by air
> 
> however even advanced fighters like Su35 and Su34 have not really carried out SEAD/DEAD missions
> 
> the lack of targeting pods on these advanced aircraft is another big mess
> 
> even Mig31 is launching from over Belarus, if Russian can solve these issues they will be back in the game by next year
> 
> but I agree its a big question mark


I have already written about this.

You can't hunt HIMARS without Air Superiority, because I am pretty sure where HIMARS is there will be a system or 2 of SAM waiting just around it. And you can't get Air Superiority unless you actually fight for it. What do you purpose for the Russian to fight for it??

This is the exact issue why Combine Arms tactics are important, because you need to be able to push the Ukrainian ground troop out to gain air superiority because you can't do it with Ground Troop protecting Anti-Air Asset, and you can't do that without both equipment and intelligence. Which is why Russia Air Force is lacking, because they are relegated to Infantry Support role, where they should be the aggressor type.

As for how they can do it? Other than they start loaning Chinese J-16 or more capable AWACS, Stealth and EW platform, it cannot be done.


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## aviator_fan

zartosht said:


> It means nothing but lines on a map. The Russian army is intact and the strategic equation has not only not changed, but its gotten worse for the ukies
> 
> The Russian army is literally growing exponentially by the day. While the exhausted ukies are throwing 60 year old grandpas to charge fortified Russian positions with 0 regard for their own mens lives
> 
> Russians value their men, ukies (or their american masters to be more specific) have less then 0 value for ukie cannon fodder lives.
> 
> This might give you a propaganda victory here and there. But will be strategic suicide long terrm. War is just beginning


Baghdad Bob: Iran's drones are going to get Russians withdrawn to where they started. Nice weapons. Now wonder Hamas has their a**es handed to them with these third rate weapons



zartosht said:


> Are you able to make coherent arguments or just twitter taunts?
> 
> Yes russia loose ukies stronkk. West winnzzz. You can have your chimpanzee level circle jerk twitter convos. Or have actual facts based discussion on logic.
> 
> Are the Russian lines breaking? Not even the most pro western propagandist is claiming that. Infact alot of informed ukies are actually extremely weary of a trap. As they know the Russian army is fully intact and withdrawing on its own terms.
> 
> I understand humas are emotional animals and seeing lines on a map change bring out That animilstic instinct inside. However, people with military knowledge are not celebrating and are extremely suspicious


You must be the only person on this forum that sees a withdrawal from a major location as a 'line on a map'. Short of total surrender, this is what losing means...You annex a territory, say an attack on it is an attack on mother Russia, then mother Russia gets attacked, and then you withdraw from part of attacked area. Certainly yes a line 'redrawn'.

Listen it could have gone the other way. You didn't run the Russian battle, and you aren't responsible for the current unfolding. But do stop putting your head in the sand and acting like a Russian political officer in the 70s with a steadfast belief in something thats getting further and further from reality

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## Super Falcon

War in last stages


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## zartosht

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The Virgin Russian military expert:
> - Can personally identify which type of T-72 tanks through visual alone. Ended up using it to identify burned tank husk.
> - Have years of training as opfor by using Russian military weapons and tactics. Believing them to be capable. The Russian ended losing to an enemy 1/10 of its size.
> 
> The Chad Russophobe:
> - Russia lost because their culture and people are inferior to superior western technology and race.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591211190860107780

Russian losses now exceed 7,800

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## sammuel

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin 'offered surrender terms by West' as he loses control of Kherson
> 
> 
> The plan would see Putin give up all territory he currently occupies in Ukraine except Crimea, which would become a demilitarized zone, in return for avoiding war crimes prosecution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Putin just been given exit ramp. If he does not take it - then he will for sure lose Crimea as punishment and Ukraine will be given a whole series of weapons that has been denied up until now ...



I don't see the point in making terms , that the other side clearly would not accept.

~


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## Han Patriot

Super Falcon said:


> War in last stages


My view is that this is only going to persist. Ukraine is now half dead only being propped up by th3 West. And moving back to the other side of the dnipro makes more sense, i believe Russia can solidify their current holdings better now.

Russia should cut off the bridges on the Dnipro and then they can easily conquer half of Ukraine

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## F-22Raptor

Han Patriot said:


> My view is that this is only going to persist. Ukraine is now half dead only being propped up by th3 West. And moving back to the other side of the dnipro makes more sense, i believe Russia can solidify their current holdings better now.
> 
> Russia should cut off the bridges on the Dnipro and then they can easily conquer half of Ukraine



Cope some more, Ukraine is nowhere close to being half dead and Russia controls about 15% of Ukraine, maybe slightly more.

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Cope some more, Ukraine is nowhere close to being half dead and Russia controls about 15% of Ukraine, maybe slightly more.


lol, remember you are replying to a person who know probably the square root of nothing about fighting and has been blindly follow what the Russian told him except the call for people like him to fight for Russia (Which even people like him wouldn't answer, that's saying something)

What Ukraine did by pushing Russian out of Kherson is that it completely occupied the land West of Dnieper. Which mean they can use the river as a Natural Defence and free up all the troop along the entire frontline and only leave a few brigades to guard the entrance and approach. And this is what it looks like in Kherson Area BEFORE Russian line collapse






Each of those unit with an "X" on top of their box is a Brigade, there are 14 Brigades in the frontline itself, and 2 further back (1 in Mykolaiv and 1 in Vysokopillia) Another 2 in Krivyi Rih which is no longer the frontline.






Which mean Ukraine can move 4 Brigades into Kherson and Nova Kokhovka and redeploying the other 14 to somewhere else. If I have to guess, this is where they are going next, probably after winter






Notice the 2 dot and square unit? Those are Artillery Regiment, you don't put Artillery Unit behind a line if you are not thinking about breaking thru that line, and that 2 Artillery Unit was in Kherson just about a week ago.

If the Ukrainian successfully punch thru here and straight into Melitopol and Mariupol, then that's the ball game for Russia, there are no turning back and they can't possibly win this war. Even if they mobilise 10 million soldier, because that is the choke point of Russian logistic effort, once you cut it in half you can and will defeat both side in detail.

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> lol, remember you are replying to a person who know probably the square root of nothing about fighting and has been blindly follow what the Russian told him except the call for people like him to fight for Russia (Which even people like him wouldn't answer, that's saying something)
> 
> What Ukraine did by pushing Russian out of Kherson is that it completely occupied the land West of Dnieper. Which mean they can use the river as a Natural Defence and free up all the troop along the entire frontline and only leave a few brigades to guard the entrance and approach. And this is what it looks like in Kherson Area BEFORE Russian line collapse
> 
> View attachment 895779
> 
> 
> Each of those unit with an "X" on top of their box is a Brigade, there are 14 Brigades in the frontline itself, and 2 further back (1 in Mykolaiv and 1 in Vysokopillia) Another 2 in Krivyi Rih which is no longer the frontline.
> 
> View attachment 895782
> 
> 
> Which mean Ukraine can move 4 Brigades into Kherson and Nova Kokhovka and redeploying the other 14 to somewhere else. If I have to guess, this is where they are going next, probably after winter
> 
> View attachment 895783
> 
> 
> Notice the 2 dot and square unit? Those are Artillery Regiment, you don't put Artillery Unit behind a line if you are not thinking about breaking thru that line, and that 2 Artillery Unit was in Kherson just about a week ago.
> 
> If the Ukrainian successfully punch thru here and straight into Melitopol and Mariupol, then that's the ball game for Russia, there are no turning back and they can't possibly win this war. Even if they mobilise 10 million soldier, because that is the choke point of Russian logistic effort, once you cut it in half you can and will defeat both side in detail.



Well I said a couple months ago Russia had 6-12 months left before it’s completely defeated on the battlefield . 12 months is September next year. I think we’re right on schedule.

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## jhungary

Joke of the day (1 of 2) on Telegram

TV interviewers ask Ukrainian soldier "What are you fighting for?"

Ukrainian Soldier replies "I come here to liberate my homeland, Slava Ukranini"

TV interviewer ask Russian Soldier "What are you fighting for?"

Russian soldier replies "I come here to liberate all the watermelon and washing machine from Nazi Ukrainian control"

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## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> Cope some more, Ukraine is nowhere close to being half dead and Russia controls about 15% of Ukraine, maybe slightly more.


Its just common sense, look tge Dniper river is not a small river. Blow up tge bridges, which is what they just did, and concentrate on the East. Then solidify those holdings while continuing to bombard tge western civillian infrastructure. I was so surprised that the Russians only took 3 days to destroy 40% of Ukrianian power capacity. It shows me they never really wanted to go total war. Russia is not going against Ukriane here, they are going against tye whole Nato and the only way they can conquer yhe whole Ukriane is if China steps in to supply Russia. People tend to forget its Ukraine getting destroyed here not Russia. Lol


People need to look at this objectively, not emotionally as if its evil vs good.



F-22Raptor said:


> Well I said a couple months ago Russia had 6-12 months left before it’s completely defeated on the battlefield . 12 months is September next year. I think we’re right on schedule.


Wanna make a bet? If within 12 months tye Russians are not out of Ukriane, i win, if i am wrong, I will leave. Come on, lets bet, my view is this can drag on foe years. Depends on hw you calculate it, tye territories controlled by Russia is the size of 2 average size European country, some say 20%,you say 15%.

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> That must be the Ukranians taking "delivery". No way will they keep that many together now - far too valuable an asset for that level of concentration in wartime conditions.



No, this is inside Ukraine, people said it was shot in Stolbovaya at an unknown time. 



F-22Raptor said:


> Well I said a couple months ago Russia had 6-12 months left before it’s completely defeated on the battlefield . 12 months is September next year. I think we’re right on schedule.



12 months is a bit quick, I will say this is going to drag on for a while, if Ukraine want to take Crimea and Donbas as well. 12 months can probably roll back Russia in pre-February line, most likely not enough time to conquer Crimea by next September. 

I wouldn't say it will not happen, stranger thing did happen and quite a lot in this war, nothing surprises me now maybe except if the Ukrainian were able to mount an amphibious assault toward Crimea?? But yeah, this is not likely to have Crimea and Donbas back by September next year.


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## serenity

How are you guys defining defeat? That Russia leaves pre war Ukriane Russia borders? Or reaches a settlement with Ukraine and Europe where Russia manages to annex some parts of Ukraine in exchange for ceasefire.

I think Russia and Ukraine and Europe might settle for the latter eventually. Economic war is damaging Europe and Russia alike. Ukraine wants to stop the war obviously as it is the only nation being actively destroyed by the war effects directly. But would Ukraine settle for Russia annexing parts of it? Even if just annexing smaller sections than the four new territories that Russia unilaterally declared as annexed?

I doubt Russia would settle for no annexation. It would not be able to face its people if it did that without total government change. So the question is if Ukraine will accept Russia's minimum demands on giving Russia certain lands official control over.

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## Han Patriot

jhungary said:


> No, this is inside Ukraine, people said it was shot in Stolbovaya at an unknown time.
> 
> 
> 
> 12 months is a bit quick, I will say this is going to drag on for a while, if Ukraine want to take Crimea and Donbas as well. 12 months can probably roll back Russia in pre-February line, most likely not enough time to conquer Crimea by next September.
> 
> I wouldn't say it will not happen, stranger thing did happen and quite a lot in this war, nothing surprises me now maybe except if the Ukrainian were able to mount an amphibious assault toward Crimea?? But yeah, this is not likely to have Crimea and Donbas back by September next year.



So when is Ukraine getting back Crimea? Ukraine will not join NATo, because if they joined NATo, attacking Crimea means Nato is attacking Russia and id Russia retaliates, its WW3. This is just common sense.



serenity said:


> How are you guys defining defeat? That Russia leaves pre war Ukriane Russia borders? Or reaches a settlement with Ukraine and Europe where Russia manages to annex some parts of Ukraine in exchange for ceasefire.
> 
> I think Russia and Ukraine and Europe might settle for the latter eventually. Economic war is damaging Europe and Russia alike. Ukraine wants to stop the war obviously as it is the only nation being actively destroyed by the war effects directly. But would Ukraine settle for Russia annexing parts of it? Even if just annexing smaller sections than the four new territories that Russia unilaterally declared as annexed?
> 
> I doubt Russia would settle for no annexation. It would not be able to face its people if it did that without total government change. So the question is if Ukraine will accept Russia's minimum demands on giving Russia certain lands official control over.


I believe the Russians would accept territories east of Dniper plus a treaty banning NaTo expansion into Ukraine. But i doubt that joker would accept it, if China starts pumping out weapons for Russia, not even Nato can help Ukraine. With only 3 spy sats, the IsR if tge Russians are next to 0, they should have accessed Chinese ISRs, out system is even larger than the Yanks. That's what happens when you believe democracy can save your country. Lol

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> How are you guys defining defeat? That Russia leaves pre war Ukriane Russia borders? Or reaches a settlement with Ukraine and Europe where Russia manages to annex some parts of Ukraine in exchange for ceasefire.
> 
> I think Russia and Ukraine and Europe might settle for the latter eventually. Economic war is damaging Europe and Russia alike. Ukraine wants to stop the war obviously as it is the only nation being actively destroyed by the war effects directly. But would Ukraine settle for Russia annexing parts of it? Even if just annexing smaller sections than the four new territories that Russia unilaterally declared as annexed?
> 
> I doubt Russia would settle for no annexation. It would not be able to face its people if it did that without total government change. So the question is if Ukraine will accept Russia's minimum demands on giving Russia certain lands official control over.



As I said before, the key for Ukraine to settle is NATO, anything else is secondary unless they have NATO membership, because without NATO Membership, this is going to be Part 1 of whatever war Russia had in mind on Ukraine (or Part 2 if you counted 2014) Which mean without NATO membership, there are probably going to be no deal, because no one can guarantee Russia will not invade again, and no one can guarantee NATO and the west would support Ukraine if they were invaded again. That's pointless to cease fire if this is the case, that's number 1. 

As for whether or not Ukraine would accept land for peace, that's solely up to the Ukrainian to decide, because that was their land, its not Russian, it's not British, it's not American. Which mean that term would have to be satisfy by the Ukrainian as Zelenskyy said many, many time. I would say unless Ukraine suffer major military defeat in the next 6 to 12 months, I don't see any land concession is acceptable in Ukrainian end. They are 3 for 3 now, the Ukrainian won Battle of Kyiv, Battle of Kharkiv and Battle of Kherson, which mean only 1 battle outstanding before they roll back toward pre-Feb 2022 line, that's Battle of Luhansk. 2 if You also count Battle of Zaporizhzhia but then the Russian didn't get much in Zaporizhzhia. You need incentive to be able to settle, if not no one is going to settle, and for the Ukrainian, would you settle now? With them beaten back Russian thrice. 

As for economy, the different is, EU can take those hit, in fact, EU had it worse during COVID, this is actually not as bad as COVID. Do bear in mind at least you get to work now, instead of everybody staying at home during COVID. On the other hand, Russia is hanging on by a thread. They are running on the profit to which selling their oil and gas to China and India, but then they can only do it with gas and oil price is high, and that is not a long term solution as it's only 1/3 of Russia economy, with the rest to become almost net zero. The war is costing Russia dearly both financially and in resource, the problem is, can they last until there are changes in the battlefield?? That's the issue here. But conventional wisdom would suggest the threshold in EU and US is going to be greater than the threshold in Russia. Because while we are in recession, unless you work in energy sector in Russia, you get almost nothing. And not all Russian works in energy sector....

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## serenity

Han Patriot said:


> So when is Ukraine getting back Crimea? Ukraine will not join NATo, because if they joined NATo, attacking Crimea means Nato is attacking Russia and id Russia retaliates, its WW3. This is just common sense.
> 
> 
> I believe the Russians would accept territories east of Dniper plus a treaty banning NaTo expansion into Ukraine. But i doubt that joker would accept it, if China starts pumping out weapons for Russia, not even Nato can help Ukraine. With only 3 spy sats, the IsR if tge Russians are next to 0, they should have accessed Chinese ISRs, out system is even larger than the Yanks. That's what happens when you believe democracy can save your country. Lol



1. China will not assist Russia with any direct military assistance unless Russia itself is threatened and even then it is unnecessary as no one has the ability to threaten Russia as long as it is a nuclear power and a major nuclear power too. It would only damage China's current and future ability to incorporate Europe into at least a more neutral stance if not a more closely tied with China future. Germany has increased cooperation and dependence with China. Supporting Russia against Europe would sever any chance of this for near or mid term future.

Furthermore, Russia and China are long term strategic competitors.

2. I think Russia cannot and possibly should not be draining itself like this and cannot afford to in more ideal cases. They are not able to totally take over Ukraine. They have trouble taking and securing the regions they unilaterally annexed. But they will not leave without gains to show. At least the political class cannot afford to do this. So it really depends on Ukraine and what they find acceptable.

Ukraine is hoping to make such strong efforts to repel Russia that it hopes to negotiate a better deal or get Russia to find a political way out without taking Ukrainian land or a minimal. Ukraine is the one suffering huge direct tangible losses from war in terms of destroyed cities. NATO and US are not exactly disliking that Russia is militarily draining itself. But also would not like this to escalate far or the war to expand beyond Ukraine. It would be okay with a settlement.

Russia of course would not allow even a post settlement Ukraine to become part of NATO. That goes without saying. Otherwise they have lost even a greater strategic goal than settling without annexing land.

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## Han Patriot

serenity said:


> 1. China will not assist Russia with any direct military assistance unless Russia itself is threatened and even then it is unnecessary as no one has the ability to threaten Russia as long as it is a nuclear power and a major nuclear power too. It would only damage China's current and future ability to incorporate Europe into at least a more neutral stance if not a more closely tied with China future. Germany has increased cooperation and dependence with China. Supporting Russia against Europe would sever any chance of this for near or mid term future.
> 
> Furthermore, Russia and China are long term strategic competitors.
> 
> 2. I think Russia cannot and possibly should not be draining itself like this and cannot afford to in more ideal cases. They are not able to totally take over Ukraine. They have trouble taking and securing the regions they unilaterally annexed. But they will not leave without gains to show. At least the political class cannot afford to do this. So it really depends on Ukraine and what they find acceptable.
> 
> Ukraine is hoping to make such strong efforts to repel Russia that it hopes to negotiate a better deal or get Russia to find a political way out without taking Ukrainian land or a minimal. Ukraine is the one suffering huge direct tangible losses from war in terms of destroyed cities. NATO and US are not exactly disliking that Russia is militarily draining itself. But also would not like this to escalate far or the war to expand beyond Ukraine. It would be okay with a settlement.
> 
> Russia of course would not allow even a post settlement Ukraine to become part of NATO. That goes without saying. Otherwise they have lost even a greater strategic goal than settling without annexing land.


Agreed. But we can supply clandestinely, Iranian drones using Chinese engines are a good example. We should make sure the war in Ukraine is prolonged to drain the Europeans and Americans. Technically a war in Ukraine is beneficial to China.

The Americans were already dangling Siberia as a reward if we join the sanctions. Historically, those lands belong to us. But then the Anglos had been good with divide and conquer. So the best policy is support Russia economically and clandestinely supply components.

If we join the sanctions, Russia is gone, their territories would be divid3d. But then we will be next...

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## serenity

jhungary said:


> As I said before, the key for Ukraine to settle is NATO, anything else is secondary unless they have NATO membership, because without NATO Membership, this is going to be Part 1 of whatever war Russia had in mind on Ukraine (or Part 2 if you counted 2014) Which mean without NATO membership, there are probably going to be no deal, because no one can guarantee Russia will not invade again, and no one can guarantee NATO and the west would support Ukraine if they were invaded again. That's pointless to cease fire if this is the case, that's number 1.



Russia cannot afford to allow that otherwise its political class will be asked by the Russian people, why they went on a year or longer war (by the previous suggested theoretical resolution of Sep 2023) without even preventing Ukraine from going NATO.

The guarantee would only be that Russia tried and could not take over all of Ukraine and can barely hold control of some parts that are constantly contested. The concern for distant future restart of war where Russia builds up a big military force, well the guarantee against that is that it takes Russia ages and ages in the form of many decades to build up to do that and it is all visible and noticeable. So Europe and NATO can rest assured that if Russia's future intention is to do so, then they can know well in advance and if not due to European lethargy or political blindness, then something similar to how they are with this war will probably repeat. Essentially it would be how well Europe does economically for that time vs and compared with how well Russia does. If Russia booms for the next few decades and builds up its military, well Europe can notice easily and then discuss how to deal with the threat of potential repeat of Ukraine war.



jhungary said:


> As for whether or not Ukraine would accept land for peace, that's solely up to the Ukrainian to decide, because that was their land, its not Russian, it's not British, it's not American. Which mean that term would have to be satisfy by the Ukrainian as Zelenskyy said many, many time. I would say unless Ukraine suffer major military defeat in the next 6 to 12 months, I don't see any land concession is acceptable in Ukrainian end. They are 3 for 3 now, the Ukrainian won Battle of Kyiv, Battle of Kharkiv and Battle of Kherson, which mean only 1 battle outstanding before they roll back toward pre-Feb 2022 line, that's Battle of Luhansk. 2 if You also count Battle of Zaporizhzhia but then the Russian didn't get much in Zaporizhzhia. You need incentive to be able to settle, if not no one is going to settle, and for the Ukrainian, would you settle now? With them beaten back Russian thrice.
> 
> As for economy, the different is, EU can take those hit, in fact, EU had it worse during COVID, this is actually not as bad as COVID. Do bear in mind at least you get to work now, instead of everybody staying at home during COVID. On the other hand, Russia is hanging on by a thread. They are running on the profit to which selling their oil and gas to China and India, but then they can only do it with gas and oil price is high, and that is not a long term solution as it's only 1/3 of Russia economy, with the rest to become almost net zero. The war is costing Russia dearly both financially and in resource, the problem is, can they last until there are changes in the battlefield?? That's the issue here. But conventional wisdom would suggest the threshold in EU and US is going to be greater than the threshold in Russia. Because while we are in recession, unless you work in energy sector in Russia, you get almost nothing. And not all Russian works in energy sector....



I think all this is really indeed up to how Ukraine wants to go. At the moment they are hoping to achieve a situation where Russia finds a political way out. It seems not likely that Russia will talk and find a way out for political class without taking Ukrainian land.

If Russia insists on Ukraine not part of NATO, annexed lands remain with Russia, Ukraine may as well not accept it since they can contest these annexed lands and keep Russia draining. But the cost to Ukraine and the west is significant in reality (as opposed to anti Russia and pro Ukraine propaganda which promotes every hit they make and omits every hit the Russians make).

The balance is somewhere there and Ukraine wants to fight it out a bit longer and see if they can manage to get Russia to understand that it does not (currently) accept Russia taking any Ukrainian land. How both sides approach future negotiations on ceasefire depends on how much leverage and power they hold. Ukraine can continue draining Russia (at great cost to itself and some cost to the west) so how will Russia want to settle? Give back Ukrainian lands, west removes sanctions, etc etc. Russia says no I want at least those guarantees - no NATO for Ukraine, no EU for Ukraine, and I also want those annexed lands. Ukraine says well I can keep draining you and Russia replies with we shall see who drains first.



Han Patriot said:


> Agreed. But we can supply clandestinely, Iranian drones using Chinese engines are a good example. We should make sure the war in Ukraine is prolonged to drain the Europeans and Americans. Technically a war in Ukraine is beneficial to China.
> 
> The Americans were already dangling Siberia as a reward if we join the sanctions. Historically, those lands belong to us. But then the Anglos had been good with divide and conquer. So the best policy is support Russia economically and clandestinely supply components.
> 
> If we join the sanctions, Russia is gone, their territories would be divid3d. But then we will be next to be destroyed by the cabal.



Supplying ISR at most since Russia's ISR is a bit weaker in some respects but that would be obvious to observers. Chinese ISR drone networks are distinct. You cannot do that clandestinely. If you're talking about space based ISR, well Russia has enough of that themselves.

The Americans are not dangling any rewards for joining their side. There's no reason China will join their side in any separate domain of great power struggle and there's no way US would trust China on their side. China would have no reason to go into conflict with Russia.

Again Russia and China are about as big adversaries and China and USA. Even worse, they are neighbors! It's just not seemingly that way to you now because of Soviet history, blah blah unity, and currently political alignment during a time where Russia is weak. If Russia is strong, it would either venture west or venture east! I think Chinese need to stop romanticizing the idea of Soviet Union and what Russia is! I hear these inaccurate understandings from Chinese people all the time! Russia is as great a threat to China as it is to Europe! when it is weak, Europe is closer and during the last eras Russia has more ties with Europe, Europe threatens Russia more than China threatens Russia ergo Russia focus, attention and aggressions are more direct west than east this time.

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## One_Nation

Han Patriot said:


> Its just common sense, look tge Dniper river is not a small river. Blow up tge bridges, which is what they just did, and concentrate on the East. Then solidify those holdings while continuing to bombard tge western civillian infrastructure. I was so surprised that the Russians only took 3 days to destroy 40% of Ukrianian power capacity. It shows me they never really wanted to go total war. Russia is not going against Ukriane here, they are going against tye whole Nato and the only way they can conquer yhe whole Ukriane is if China steps in to supply Russia. People tend to forget its Ukraine getting destroyed here not Russia. Lol
> 
> 
> People need to look at this objectively, not emotionally as if its evil vs good.
> 
> 
> Wanna make a bet? If within 12 months tye Russians are not out of Ukriane, i win, if i am wrong, I will leave. Come on, lets bet, my view is this can drag on foe years. Depends on hw you calculate it, tye territories controlled by Russia is the size of 2 average size European country, some say 20%,you say 15%.



There is one important factor that gives Russia an edge i.e. Russia has marked the entire Ukrainian territory for missile attacks. Ukraine/Nato don't have that against Russia yet.
Russia can use it to damage infrastructure whenever it wants unless Ukraine get a technology to intercept each and every incoming missile. Until that time Russia can hit power stations or other critical supplies. How long can Ukrainians survive without power?

Other factor is uncapped help from USA. What happens to Ukraine when that stops? Militarily, Ukraine became Russia's Afghanistan. Financially, Ukraine can become America's Afghanistan 2.0. A military that they have to keep funding or it will collapse.


----------



## thetutle

serenity said:


> Russia cannot afford to allow that otherwise its political class will be asked by the Russian people, why they went on a year or longer war (by the previous suggested theoretical resolution of Sep 2023) without even preventing Ukraine from going NATO.
> 
> The guarantee would only be that Russia tried and could not take over all of Ukraine and can barely hold control of some parts that are constantly contested. The concern for distant future restart of war where Russia builds up a big military force, well the guarantee against that is that it takes Russia ages and ages in the form of many decades to build up to do that and it is all visible and noticeable. So Europe and NATO can rest assured that if Russia's future intention is to do so, then they can know well in advance and if not due to European lethargy or political blindness, then something similar to how they are with this war will probably repeat. Essentially it would be how well Europe does economically for that time vs and compared with how well Russia does. If Russia booms for the next few decades and builds up its military, well Europe can notice easily and then discuss how to deal with the threat of potential repeat of Ukraine war.
> 
> 
> 
> I think all this is really indeed up to how Ukraine wants to go. At the moment they are hoping to achieve a situation where Russia finds a political way out. It seems not likely that Russia will talk and find a way out for political class without taking Ukrainian land.
> 
> If Russia insists on Ukraine not part of NATO, annexed lands remain with Russia, Ukraine may as well not accept it since they can contest these annexed lands and keep Russia draining. But the cost to Ukraine and the west is significant in reality (as opposed to anti Russia and pro Ukraine propaganda which promotes every hit they make and omits every hit the Russians make).
> 
> The balance is somewhere there and Ukraine wants to fight it out a bit longer and see if they can manage to get Russia to understand that it does not (currently) accept Russia taking any Ukrainian land. How both sides approach future negotiations on ceasefire depends on how much leverage and power they hold. Ukraine can continue draining Russia (at great cost to itself and some cost to the west) so how will Russia want to settle? Give back Ukrainian lands, west removes sanctions, etc etc. Russia says no I want at least those guarantees - no NATO for Ukraine, no EU for Ukraine, and I also want those annexed lands. Ukraine says well I can keep draining you and Russia replies with we shall see who drains first.
> 
> 
> 
> Supplying ISR at most since Russia's ISR is a bit weaker in some respects but that would be obvious to observers. Chinese ISR drone networks are distinct. You cannot do that clandestinely. If you're talking about space based ISR, well Russia has enough of that themselves.
> 
> The Americans are not dangling any rewards for joining their side. There's no reason China will join their side in any separate domain of great power struggle and there's no way US would trust China on their side. China would have no reason to go into conflict with Russia.
> 
> Again Russia and China are about as big adversaries and China and USA. Even worse, they are neighbors! It's just not seemingly that way to you now because of Soviet history, blah blah unity, and currently political alignment during a time where Russia is weak. If Russia is strong, it would either venture west or venture east! I think Chinese need to stop romanticizing the idea of Soviet Union and what Russia is! I hear these inaccurate understandings from Chinese people all the time! Russia is as great a threat to China as it is to Europe! when it is weak, Europe is closer and during the last eras Russia has more ties with Europe, Europe threatens Russia more than China threatens Russia ergo Russia focus, attention and aggressions are more direct west than east this time.


Well Ukraine just invaded the sovereign russian city of Kherson. And Russia cant do much about it. so noone cares what russia can accept or wont accept. They will just keep attacking until russia back away. If russia can prevent ukraine making a sovereign decision to join NATO or EU, russia and aggression will be rewarded. So noone will allow russia to dictate those terms.



One_Nation said:


> Other factor is uncapped help from USA. What happens to Ukraine when that stops? Militarily, Ukraine became Russia's Afghanistan. Financially, Ukraine can become America's Afghanistan 2.0. A military that they have to keep funding or it will collapse.


Without American support its safe to say ukraine will be overrun sooner or later. So if help dried up, US has accepted russian territorial expansion. They allowed it once already after WW2, so we'll see if they allow it now. It doesn't look like it.


----------



## jhungary

serenity said:


> Russia cannot afford to allow that otherwise its political class will be asked by the Russian people, why they went on a year or longer war (by the previous suggested theoretical resolution of Sep 2023) without even preventing Ukraine from going NATO.
> 
> The guarantee would only be that Russia tried and could not take over all of Ukraine and can barely hold control of some parts that are constantly contested. The concern for distant future restart of war where Russia builds up a big military force, well the guarantee against that is that it takes Russia ages and ages in the form of many decades to build up to do that and it is all visible and noticeable. So Europe and NATO can rest assured that if Russia's future intention is to do so, then they can know well in advance and if not due to European lethargy or political blindness, then something similar to how they are with this war will probably repeat. Essentially it would be how well Europe does economically for that time vs and compared with how well Russia does. If Russia booms for the next few decades and builds up its military, well Europe can notice easily and then discuss how to deal with the threat of potential repeat of Ukraine war.



Problem is whether or not Ukraine join NATO is not really up to Russia to decide, I mean what Russia can do if Ukraine want to join NATO and NATO said yes? You nuke Western Europe? 

This is not something Russia have reach on, I mean, what stop Jan Stoltenberg tomorrow say, "Now I will bend all the rules and accept Ukraine membership without every country in NATO agree"? I mean, that is highly undemocratic but that can be done, so is US and UK and some core European members form another NATO like binding organisation and invite Ukraine to be part of. Russia also cannot have anything to veto that. it's not UN, and we are not talking about Security Council. 

Whether or not Ukraine will join NATO or a NATO like organisation is beside Russian point, Russia can say no to negotiation, but again, that will come back to who want it the most. Judging by the fact on the ground, Russia is the one retreating, and Ukrainian is the one that advancing at the moment, again, would Ukraine want to talk about peace now?? 

This is much further than Russia pulls all the force off Ukraine, the war did not end there, because the trust between Ukraine and Russia is completely gone, in a political and diplomatic sense, it makes no sense for either side to stop the war right now unless there are incentive to do so, and the incentive of both side is in direct conflict with the other side, that's the thing to consider here. 



serenity said:


> I think all this is really indeed up to how Ukraine wants to go. At the moment they are hoping to achieve a situation where Russia finds a political way out. It seems not likely that Russia will talk and find a way out for political class without taking Ukrainian land.
> 
> If Russia insists on Ukraine not part of NATO, annexed lands remain with Russia, Ukraine may as well not accept it since they can contest these annexed lands and keep Russia draining. But the cost to Ukraine and the west is significant in reality (as opposed to anti Russia and pro Ukraine propaganda which promotes every hit they make and omits every hit the Russians make).
> 
> The balance is somewhere there and Ukraine wants to fight it out a bit longer and see if they can manage to get Russia to understand that it does not (currently) accept Russia taking any Ukrainian land. How both sides approach future negotiations on ceasefire depends on how much leverage and power they hold. Ukraine can continue draining Russia (at great cost to itself and some cost to the west) so how will Russia want to settle? Give back Ukrainian lands, west removes sanctions, etc etc. Russia says no I want at least those guarantees - no NATO for Ukraine, no EU for Ukraine, and I also want those annexed lands. Ukraine says well I can keep draining you and Russia replies with we shall see who drains first.


Again, you are missing a very obvious point. It does not really matter if Ukraine were able to cede their land, that is not the primary issue here, the primary issue here is Ukraine don't Trust the Russian, which mean even if Russia say tomorrow "I am going to withdraw from Ukraine" that does not end the war there, because it does not guarantee Russia will not come back for round 2. You can cede anything to Russia or don't cede anything for Russia that does not matter for the Ukrainian. Because peace with a rifle next to you all the time is no peace, if Ukraine want peace, they will need to either snuff Russian desire of invasion, or have Russia no longer become a threat. The second part is *ALWAYS NOT ACHEIVEABLE* for the Ukrainian because the Russian have 6500 nuclear warheads, which mean conservatively, Ukraine needed is not Russian boots off Ukrainian ground, Ukraine need is a security guarantee that Russia will not be able to do it again, or at least have to think twice before they will do it again. If this is not met, there can be no settlement, because there can be no peace, then why bother to settle.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591124022162444289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591164789824233472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591134781781049344



ZeGerman said:


> @The SC
> Thats already more then the max 3 losses from your source buddy….


Three empty trucks!?
Are there other gifts?


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## serenity

thetutle said:


> Well Ukraine just invaded the sovereign russian city of Kherson. And Russia cant do much about it. so noone cares what russia can accept or wont accept. They will just keep attacking until russia back away. If russia can prevent ukraine making a sovereign decision to join NATO or EU, russia and aggression will be rewarded. So noone will allow russia to dictate those terms.



That city is Russian annexed unilaterally. It is challenged by Ukraine. From Ukraine's pov it is attacking the Ukrainian city of Kherson recently and previously taken over by Russia during this war. This part comes under what I said about Ukraine being able to constantly drain Russia by contesting Russian military control over any parts of UKRAINE that it controls. For semantics, it's important to be on the same page wrt this. Any land prior to this war that was Ukrainian, let's call as Ukraine or as Russian unilaterally annexed.

It all depends on how well Ukraine can challenge this Russian invasion. That ability will dictate how well they can negotiate for favorable outcomes and settlements.



jhungary said:


> Problem is whether or not Ukraine join NATO is not really up to Russia to decide, I mean what Russia can do if Ukraine want to join NATO and NATO said yes? You nuke Western Europe?



Russia will surely demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO and possibly also stay out of EU. What if they said yes? Well resuming the war for starters. If Russia decides that's a bad trap to be caught in, then they are out of options. Nuking of course is not an option but it's Russia also ... so...



jhungary said:


> This is not something Russia have reach on, I mean, what stop Jan Stoltenberg tomorrow say, "Now I will bend all the rules and accept Ukraine membership without every country in NATO agree"? I mean, that is highly undemocratic but that can be done, so is US and UK and some core European members form another NATO like binding organisation and invite Ukraine to be part of. Russia also cannot have anything to veto that. it's not UN, and we are not talking about Security Council.
> 
> Whether or not Ukraine will join NATO or a NATO like organisation is beside Russian point, Russia can say no to negotiation, but again, that will come back to who want it the most. Judging by the fact on the ground, Russia is the one retreating, and Ukrainian is the one that advancing at the moment, again, would Ukraine want to talk about peace now??
> 
> This is much further than Russia pulls all the force off Ukraine, the war did not end there, because the trust between Ukraine and Russia is completely gone, in a political and diplomatic sense, it makes no sense for either side to stop the war right now unless there are incentive to do so, and the incentive of both side is in direct conflict with the other side, that's the thing to consider here.
> 
> 
> Again, you are missing a very obvious point. It does not really matter if Ukraine were able to cede their land, that is not the primary issue here, the primary issue here is Ukraine don't Trust the Russian, which mean even if Russia say tomorrow "I am going to withdraw from Ukraine" that does not end the war there, because it does not guarantee Russia will not come back for round 2. You can cede anything to Russia or don't cede anything for Russia that does not matter for the Ukrainian. Because peace with a rifle next to you all the time is no peace, if Ukraine want peace, they will need to either snuff Russian desire of invasion, or have Russia no longer become a threat. The second part is *ALWAYS NOT ACHEIVEABLE* for the Ukrainian because the Russian have 6500 nuclear warheads, which mean conservatively, Ukraine needed is not Russian boots off Ukrainian ground, Ukraine need is a security guarantee that Russia will not be able to do it again, or at least have to think twice before they will do it again. If this is not met, there can be no settlement, because there can be no peace, then why bother to settle.



Sure the Ukraine doesn't trust Russia. What are its options then?

1. continue war as is with the hope of pushing Russia out. There is simply no way that can be done without western supplies increasing. Ukraine also does not have infinite men and ammo.

2. settle in which case the Russians are likely to demand those conditions in exchange for ceasefire which obviously benefits Ukraine more than it benefits Russia since the war is in Ukraine and not in Russia (not treating annexed lands as Russia).

3. continue and up the effort to push Russia into settling under more favorable deals with Ukraine.

Ukraine is picking option 3 for now. They require more men and material to keep up the effort.

You're suggesting other options involving Ukraine joining NATO?

It may consider and say so but will it do it and will NATO accept? Because you cannot ignore that Russia will respond to that since it is its declared strategic goal after all. So why ignore that entirely and simply claim as if you are absolutely right that Ukraine will have to join NATO for future security. Isn't that ignoring the whole supposed reason for actual direct kinetic war? Just to say okay we're both bloody now and I'm gonna join NATO. Russia would have nothing to say? I think that's delusional.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591175418685853697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591134422522560512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591153536456220672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591338999402336257

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Oldman1

sammuel said:


> Some quick info ( for those like me , who had to look this up ) :
> 
> 
> 155 mm artillery projectile , at max range , will have half of it's round land within 267 meters , of their intended target.
> 
> With PGK ( Precision Guidance Kit ), they would hit within 50 m of the target at any range.
> 
> The Excalibur , effectively hit within 6 m of a target.
> 
> As for costs :
> 
> PGK costs about $10,000 , Excalibur - 100,000$ .
> 
> So you can say it the Excalibur is 10 times more accurate , but also costs 10 times more.
> 
> 
> 
> ~


The 50 meters was the U.S. Army objective goal presented to defense companies when the PGK program was introduced. Right now its accuracy is about 10m or 30 ft. The Excalibur has around 2 meters from the testing videos I've seen that was 10 years ago. Not 6m, old info. So PGK is 10 times cheaper and just little bit less accurate.

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## Oldman1

TruthHurtz said:


> Are you that high on copium that you believe Russia isn't prepared for the winter? I mean when was the last time they did that, fight in the winter?! Even *if* they lacked modern winter gear, they could simply draw upon millions of winter kits from Soviet stockpiles. Those bided them through all those Russian winters.


LOL! https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/20...ys-1-5-mln-military-uniforms-are-missing-news


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591056369113001987
Lack of equipment even earlier in the war. 

And you are telling me that they have stocks of decades old winter gear ready for the mobilized troops as well as the troops that have been there since February?



serenity said:


> Russia will surely demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO and possibly also stay out of EU. What if they said yes? Well resuming the war for starters. If Russia decides that's a bad trap to be caught in, then they are out of options. Nuking of course is not an option but it's Russia also ... so...


Russia is not going to use nukes even if Ukraine joins NATO or EU. And considering as you said, Ukraine doesn't trust Russia's word since the violation of the Budapest Memorandum in respect to their territory, its easy to see why Ukraine wants to join NATO, obviously right now NATO countries don't want to go to war with Russia. But at the same time we don't want any future conflicts or war in Ukraine after all this. So having Ukraine in NATO is the best security guarantee that Ukraine as for, unless we go to another best alternative option for all sides including Russia. A very strong Ukrainian military that can handle any future war with Russia from western aircraft to tanks to cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, etc.

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## Oldman1

serenity said:


> How are you guys defining defeat? That Russia leaves pre war Ukriane Russia borders? Or reaches a settlement with Ukraine and Europe where Russia manages to annex some parts of Ukraine in exchange for ceasefire.
> 
> I think Russia and Ukraine and Europe might settle for the latter eventually. Economic war is damaging Europe and Russia alike. Ukraine wants to stop the war obviously as it is the only nation being actively destroyed by the war effects directly. But would Ukraine settle for Russia annexing parts of it? Even if just annexing smaller sections than the four new territories that Russia unilaterally declared as annexed?
> 
> I doubt Russia would settle for no annexation. It would not be able to face its people if it did that without total government change. So the question is if Ukraine will accept Russia's minimum demands on giving Russia certain lands official control over.


If there was a ceasefire right now, it wouldn't last long since I have said before that Putin wants Ukraine and Ukraine wants all their territories back. I mean looking at the map, does it look like something where both nations can agree to a settlement of some kind right now?









aziqbal said:


> I think Russia is preparing 120,000 of the mobilised troops to be trained by Spring 2023, followed up by another 240,000 troops by summer, they have 6 months to solve the HIMAR problem
> 
> at the start of the War Ukraine drones were hammering the Russians, laser pointers were "painting" the ground vehicles and laser guided shells from artillery were finding their marks with deadly accuracy even if the Russian vehicles were moving, Russia found a way to jam the drones and neutralise them by summer the drone issue was solved and Russian marched forward
> 
> I wonder if Russia has ever captured a HIMAR, they would be too valuable and getting a block on their GPS signals would go a long way in solving the HIMAR problem
> 
> if Russian can solve HIMAR issue and train enough troops I wonder if we will see the historical and tradition Russian counter attack which broke the back of Napoleon and Wehrmacht, a Russian withdrawal always has me nervous and reminds me of the calm before the storm


Ukraine is next door to Russia and they still can't jammed the GPS.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> The Russian have 3 Defensive line on the other side of Dnieper opposite Kherson, another one at the 2 choke points from Crossing into Crimea.
> 
> Would not say the 3 lines are the best place for Russian troop to be in now. It's out in the open and out in the cold. At least Ukrainian would have building cover or basement for winter. Russian winter in the Kherson line would be like in a WW1 style trenches. And they can't go anywhere because doing so will just abandoning their position completely in Kherson and Southern Zaporizhya


And open to artillery and missile attacks while they are static and keep them diverted. Now obviously beside artillery but they can use the drones as their aviation force since there don't have modern PGMs on their actual aircraft. I like the Ukrainian drone that drops a large mortar size. Maybe the U.S. and NATO can provide the materials and technology for a bigger or powerful version to carry a 120 mortar round with GPS. 












Or something similar to the Chinese Loong 5. Vertical launch capability and carry multiple mortars. 







Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Something I failed to see from Russia side is Russian missiles being very less destructive. Compare to American weapons we seen in Iraq shock and awe and Syria airbase attacked by trump we saw a missile causing massive damage , is it due to low payload in Russian missiles ?


Russian missile payloads are larger. Problem is the low number of missiles they can fire constantly. Hence the need for Iranian weaponry like ballistic missiles and drones.


----------



## Han Patriot

One_Nation said:


> There is one important factor that gives Russia an edge i.e. Russia has marked the entire Ukrainian territory for missile attacks. Ukraine/Nato don't have that against Russia yet.
> Russia can use it to damage infrastructure whenever it wants unless Ukraine get a technology to intercept each and every incoming missile. Until that time Russia can hit power stations or other critical supplies. How long can Ukrainians survive without power?
> 
> Other factor is uncapped help from USA. What happens to Ukraine when that stops? Militarily, Ukraine became Russia's Afghanistan. Financially, Ukraine can become America's Afghanistan 2.0. A military that they have to keep funding or it will collapse.



Without the NATo arms supplies, Ukraine would have been gone. Putin underestimated Bidens wokeness. However irratating Trump was, he would have asked NATo to sign a treaty against expansion into Ukraine. All of this happened because of the greedy West, Ukraine is a large piece of bacon. 

My bet is Russia can now concentrate attacking the East. China is the kingmaker here, that's why Biden wants to meet uncle Xi.


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## Oldman1

@sammuel 




__





Long-Range Precision Guidance Kit passes critical test


BAE Systems has successfully fired its Long-Range Precision Guidance Kit (LR-PGK) for 155mm artillery projectiles from the U.S. Army’s Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) at Yuma Proving Ground, demonstrating airframe structural survivability under extreme firing conditions.




www.baesystems.com





BAE Systems has successfully fired its LR-PGK from the U.S. Army’s ERCA at Yuma Proving Ground.

BAE Systems has successfully fired its Long-Range Precision Guidance Kit (LR-PGK) for 155mm artillery projectiles from the U.S. Army’s Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) at Yuma Proving Ground, demonstrating airframe structural survivability under extreme firing conditions. The LR-PGK improves the accuracy of unguided artillery projectiles with low-cost navigation and guidance technology.

The guidance kit combines anti-jam GPS sensors with control planes that enable projectile maneuverability throughout flight, and is compatible with existing and future artillery projectiles. The ERCA survivability tests are a critical milestone for LR-PGK. The propellant blast, gun barrel pressure, and muzzle velocity truly tested the system’s resiliency.

“The LR-PGK has demonstrated its ability to help the U.S. Army deliver accurate fires up to 70 kilometers and meet mission objectives with fewer shots,” said James McDonough, LR-PGK program director. “Adding precision guidance to standard munitions enables our customers to engage targets with greater efficiency and reduce collateral damage.”

The evolving LR-PGK is helping the U.S. Army address its need for long range precision fires. BAE Systems continues to advance the system design to improve capabilities, manufacturing readiness, and affordability. Following the tests, the company is focusing on long-range guidance, navigation, and projectile flight control. The kits must demonstrate their ability to operate at high spin rates, in challenging atmospheric conditions, and in the presence of enemy signal-jamming.





__





StackPath






www.militaryaerospace.com







jhungary said:


> lol, remember you are replying to a person who know probably the square root of nothing about fighting and has been blindly follow what the Russian told him except the call for people like him to fight for Russia (Which even people like him wouldn't answer, that's saying something)
> 
> What Ukraine did by pushing Russian out of Kherson is that it completely occupied the land West of Dnieper. Which mean they can use the river as a Natural Defence and free up all the troop along the entire frontline and only leave a few brigades to guard the entrance and approach. And this is what it looks like in Kherson Area BEFORE Russian line collapse
> 
> View attachment 895779
> 
> 
> Each of those unit with an "X" on top of their box is a Brigade, there are 14 Brigades in the frontline itself, and 2 further back (1 in Mykolaiv and 1 in Vysokopillia) Another 2 in Krivyi Rih which is no longer the frontline.


Thats a lot of units at Mykolaiv. Excluding anti air units, do they need that many at the city now?

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> Russia will surely demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO and possibly also stay out of EU. What if they said yes? Well resuming the war for starters. If Russia decides that's a bad trap to be caught in, then they are out of options. Nuking of course is not an option but it's Russia also ... so...



They can surely demand, but as I said, who will have the pull depends on the situation on the ground, Ukraine "may" or actually agreed to in Feb when they themselves have doubt they are going to be overrun. They literally said they are okay to all the term Putin set out before the war (i think 2 days before the war) and Putin reject it and send troop into Ukraine. 

Now, if we are talking about April, on the high of Russian retreat from Kyiv, their first defeat. Ukraine may consider terms that probably slightly disadvantage toward them, in order to have the war stopped. Remember there were still high level talk between Ukraine and Russia via Turkey and other third party (I don't remember which country host them) but Russia did not response to those talk. 

Then in September, When Ukraine expelled Russian in Kharkiv, talk were not even mentioned, Ukraine just keep on going with their Kherson offensive which I called back then and pro Putin member laugh at my face saying Kherson cannot be taken. They just keep grinding away, they don't even want to talk to the Russian. Because simply there are nothing Russia can offer to the Ukrainian at that moment. 

Now in November, Ukraine pushed Russian away and quite frankly in a strategic advantage position regarding the entire war, Ukraine have more free troop to spare than Russian, and higher morale. If Russia want a talk now, and demand Ukraine not to join NATO or EU, would you think Ukraine would even consider that??
t 



serenity said:


> Sure the Ukraine doesn't trust Russia. What are its options then?
> 
> 1. continue war as is with the hope of pushing Russia out. There is simply no way that can be done without western supplies increasing. Ukraine also does not have infinite men and ammo.
> 
> 2. settle in which case the Russians are likely to demand those conditions in exchange for ceasefire which obviously benefits Ukraine more than it benefits Russia since the war is in Ukraine and not in Russia (not treating annexed lands as Russia).
> 
> 3. continue and up the effort to push Russia into settling under more favorable deals with Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine is picking option 3 for now. They require more men and material to keep up the effort.
> 
> You're suggesting other options involving Ukraine joining NATO?
> 
> It may consider and say so but will it do it and will NATO accept? Because you cannot ignore that Russia will respond to that since it is its declared strategic goal after all. So why ignore that entirely and simply claim as if you are absolutely right that Ukraine will have to join NATO for future security. Isn't that ignoring the whole supposed reason for actual direct kinetic war? Just to say okay we're both bloody now and I'm gonna join NATO. Russia would have nothing to say? I think that's delusional.


Again, there are no "favorable deal" with Ukraine unless it involves NATO or NATO like membership, any "favorable" deal would be temporary because as I said before, you cannot guarantee Russia not to attack Ukraine again in the future or you cannot assure Western Support the next time around.

And also, whether or not Ukraine joining NATO is not a matter for Russia to consider, it is for NATO to consider. Russia can say what they want but they don't control who got let into NATO and who don't. If Ukraine strike a deal with US or NATO, then Ukraine will join NATO, Russia can declare war on NATO if that happen, but unless they want to either lost really badly and really quick or lost with the entire world with it, that's quite stupid for something that won't hurt your own country. 

As for whether or not Ukraine will be endorsed by NATO, I have already posted my point of view, NATO would be stupid to let Ukraine go back to Russia or even Chinese camp, as there are substantial amount of NATO technology and inner NATO knowledge Ukraine process, Ukrainian is basically fighting with NATO playbook and imagine that kind of knowledge and hardware going to Russian side and Chinese side, how that will hurt NATO?? I mean HIMARS, Bayratkar, IRIS-T and other advance NATO weapon all goes to Russia and China.......That would have been a disaster for NATO for sure.

The more NATO supply arms and more advance the arms they send, the more likely Ukraine will join, and that is not up for Russian to discuss.


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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen
> 
> Where are you ??? - Lol - We are all missing you and your ideas of how Russian's can f--k each other to victory by making lots of babies ????????????????


He is joining Russia invasion army as mobi.
And the best thing: he does it for free.
Win win.

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591175418685853697
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591134422522560512
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591134422522560512
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591153536456220672


Ah an “extremely important” bombed out pair of sheds conquered.

Now clearly leading to another of russias great and successful “encirclements”. 

Why do you spam such junk? Please take a second to read before you repost…..

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Russia is not going to use nukes even if Ukraine joins NATO or EU. And considering as you said, Ukraine doesn't trust Russia's word since the violation of the Budapest Memorandum in respect to their territory, its easy to see why Ukraine wants to join NATO, obviously right now NATO countries don't want to go to war with Russia. But at the same time we don't want any future conflicts or war in Ukraine after all this. So having Ukraine in NATO is the best security guarantee that Ukraine as for, unless we go to another best alternative option for all sides including Russia. A very strong Ukrainian military that can handle any future war with Russia from western aircraft to tanks to cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, etc.


Another reason is that EU cannot and will not deal with Ukrainian Refugee and Energy Crisis 2.0. The only way they can do that is to have a stablised Eastern front, and the only way that can do that is to accept Ukrainian NATO membership. What Ukraine need to do is to degenerate Russia to a point that it will take them a long time to recover and hence cannot threaten the stability around Europe, because rest assure, even if Ukraine joined NATO, Russia is not just going to stop there, there are still a few non-NATO member in Europe Russia can bully. And they will if Ukraine joined NATO. Only if Russia conventional capability being decayed to a point that it cannot used to threaten other country, would NATO consider Ukraine membership.

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## serenity

jhungary said:


> They can surely demand, but as I said, who will have the pull depends on the situation on the ground, Ukraine "may" or actually agreed to in Feb when they themselves have doubt they are going to be overrun. They literally said they are okay to all the term Putin set out before the war (i think 2 days before the war) and Putin reject it and send troop into Ukraine.
> 
> Now, if we are talking about April, on the high of Russian retreat from Kyiv, their first defeat. Ukraine may consider terms that probably slightly disadvantage toward them, in order to have the war stopped. Remember there were still high level talk between Ukraine and Russia via Turkey and other third party (I don't remember which country host them) but Russia did not response to those talk.
> 
> Then in September, When Ukraine expelled Russian in Kharkiv, talk were not even mentioned, Ukraine just keep on going with their Kherson offensive which I called back then and pro Putin member laugh at my face saying Kherson cannot be taken. They just keep grinding away, they don't even want to talk to the Russian. Because simply there are nothing Russia can offer to the Ukrainian at that moment.
> 
> Now in November, Ukraine pushed Russian away and quite frankly in a strategic advantage position regarding the entire war, Ukraine have more free troop to spare than Russian, and higher morale. If Russia want a talk now, and demand Ukraine not to join NATO or EU, would you think Ukraine would even consider that??
> t
> 
> 
> Again, there are no "favorable deal" with Ukraine unless it involves NATO or NATO like membership, any "favorable" deal would be temporary because as I said before, you cannot guarantee Russia not to attack Ukraine again in the future or you cannot assure Western Support the next time around.
> 
> And also, whether or not Ukraine joining NATO is not a matter for Russia to consider, it is for NATO to consider. Russia can say what they want but they don't control who got let into NATO and who don't. If Ukraine strike a deal with US or NATO, then Ukraine will join NATO, Russia can declare war on NATO if that happen, but unless they want to either lost really badly and really quick or lost with the entire world with it, that's quite stupid for something that won't hurt your own country.
> 
> As for whether or not Ukraine will be endorsed by NATO, I have already posted my point of view, NATO would be stupid to let Ukraine go back to Russia or even Chinese camp, as there are substantial amount of NATO technology and inner NATO knowledge Ukraine process, Ukrainian is basically fighting with NATO playbook and imagine that kind of knowledge and hardware going to Russian side and Chinese side, how that will hurt NATO?? I mean HIMARS, Bayratkar, IRIS-T and other advance NATO weapon all goes to Russia and China.......That would have been a disaster for NATO for sure.
> 
> The more NATO supply arms and more advance the arms they send, the more likely Ukraine will join, and that is not up for Russian to discuss.



It's not up to Russia to discuss but Russia's response to Ukraine joining NATO post any settlement would be on the mind of NATO and Ukraine.

The question then becomes how would Russia respond if at all and if so, would NATO and Ukraine be okay with it. How does NATO and Ukraine anticipate Russian response will not necessarily be the Russian response either.

As for NATO weapons being used by Ukraine, well yes that is a point of concern for NATO in regards to any post settlement changes. If settlement is for ceasefire in return for Russia holding some land of Ukraine's, NATO equipment will either remain in Ukraine or go back to NATO. It doesn't mean their information and details would be delivered to Russia. NATO hasn't actually sent much advanced equipment or weapons to Ukraine. The only advanced stuff being used or helped is NATO ISR equipment which is operated by NATO and not by Ukraine. Anyway that is still a valid point it's just that you assumed there would be a total Russian takeover in future and there would not be western support then but the current NATO equipment in Ukraine would remain in Ukraine for Russia to capture in that hypothetical future Russian invasion that takes those equipment. Big stretch.

NATO membership permission will depend on how NATO considers Russia will respond and how Russia actually responds. Ukraine would want to join NATO post any settlement as you said due to how they can be sure Russia won't invade and if they did, would make it harder for Russia. But whether or not Ukraine can join will also depend on how Ukraine considers the chance of NATO allowing membership of Ukraine and how Russia will respond to Ukraine formally asking to join.

Ukraine might think well what if we ask to join and that worries Russia and puts Russia into war mode again but NATO does not allow. That would **** them up even more and give Russia their initial allegation that Ukraine wants to join NATO which has been part of Russia's claim for initiating the war. It's not as simple as you said.

Do you think NATO will allow Ukraine to join and do you think Ukraine would make that move? Are you not ignoring how NATO and Ukraine would be worried about how Russia would respond? Considering all this is hypothetically after a settlement for ceasefire is agreed by both sides. then Ukriane decides to join NATO and NATO accepts. How russia would respond would depend on how much appetite and capability they have for war on one side and on the other side, how NATO will consider it a risk. Ukraine joins means Article 5 in action and maybe Russia is deterred by that if Ukraine goes ahead. Maybe Russia is not. And this risk assessment is surely on the minds of NATO and Ukraine, but not your's.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> And open to artillery and missile attacks while they are static and keep them diverted. Now obviously beside artillery but they can use the drones as their aviation force since there don't have modern PGMs on their actual aircraft. I like the Ukrainian drone that drops a large mortar size. Maybe the U.S. and NATO can provide the materials and technology for a bigger or powerful version to carry a 120 mortar round with GPS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or something similar to the Chinese Loong 5. Vertical launch capability and carry multiple mortars.


They need conventional air power to try to neutralise Russian position on the other side, artillery can do the trick, but you would need a lot of those. 

If conventional air power is unavailable, a large quantity of drone will do.



Oldman1 said:


> Thats a lot of units at Mykolaiv. Excluding anti air units, do they need that many at the city now?


That was before the collapse of the entire Russian line, I think that picture is on Nov 9 or Nov 10. 

Back then Mykolaiv could still be attacked by land and sea had Russian broken thru the Ukrainian frontline, now the front line is moved to Kherson, expect the same amount of concentration in Kherson if not more, and expecting the unit now in the rear (Mykolaiv and Kryvyi Rih or even Dnipro (which have 3 brigades in the area) to move forward.

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## RescueRanger

Then...





Now...






What a difference 24 hours makes when you have a people hellbent on defending their motherland. 

Also, Putinsky's zombie army beat such a fast paced and comical retreat that they left behind a huge cache of ammo for the Ukranian army:







Meanwhile in Moscow:

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> It's not up to Russia to discuss but Russia's response to Ukraine joining NATO post any settlement would be on the mind of NATO and Ukraine.
> 
> The question then becomes how would Russia respond if at all and if so, would NATO and Ukraine be okay with it. How does NATO and Ukraine anticipate Russian response will not necessarily be the Russian response either.



Seriously, what do you think Russia "Can" do??

You can't start a war with NATO, you start using nuke, everybody dies, you are not economically big enough to threaten NATO and Ukraine. The only thing Russia can do, and probably already had done, is to warm up to China and become their vassal, on the other hand, would China want this particular hot mess when the Chinese themselves have Taiwan in their mind??



serenity said:


> As for NATO weapons being used by Ukraine, well yes that is a point of concern for NATO in regards to any post settlement changes. If settlement is for ceasefire in return for Russia holding some land of Ukraine's, NATO equipment will either remain in Ukraine or go back to NATO. It doesn't mean their information and details would be delivered to Russia. NATO hasn't actually sent much advanced equipment or weapons to Ukraine. The only advanced stuff being used or helped is NATO ISR equipment which is operated by NATO and not by Ukraine. Anyway that is still a valid point it's just that you assumed there would be a total Russian takeover in future and there would not be western support then but the current NATO equipment in Ukraine would remain in Ukraine for Russia to capture in that hypothetical future Russian invasion that takes those equipment. Big stretch.



That equipment is NOT going back to NATO, NATO will not come back and ask for everything back after this war. Those stuff stays in Ukraine. 

The problem of those equipment is big, not the biggest concern, Ukraine is using NATO playbook to fight Russia, *everything from fieldcraft to tactics down to intelligence operation are adopted by the Ukrainian, otherwise we can't feed them intel and they can't use it even if we do*. THAT, is the serious problem, because I know how NATO work, but if I do tell you how NATO fight war, or how US fight war, then I will have 20 years waiting for me back in Leavenworth, Kansas. If you know what I know completely, you can plan how to fight NATO off, because you know how NATO operate, then in any wargame you don't just guess what would NATO do, but you will know EXACTLY what would NATO do, and that's the problem. 

Step back a bit, do you know why Ukraine is very successful on resisting invasion and capturing Russian land in counter attack? That's because they know what Russian will do, they were trained with Russian doctrine until at least 2014. Unless Russia had written the entire doctrine from scratch since 2014, that playbook, the one that Ukraine know, will be used against Ukraine, and Ukraine would know how NATO could counter those doctrine, because they know both sides. And to a lesser extend how China would react because Chinese Doctrine build on Russian/Soviet Doctrine. Which mean not only Ukraine is a really valued partner but also a serious liability if it changes side.



serenity said:


> NATO membership permission will depend on how NATO considers Russia will respond and how Russia actually responds. Ukraine would want to join NATO post any settlement as you said due to how they can be sure Russia won't invade and if they did, would make it harder for Russia. But whether or not Ukraine can join will also depend on how Ukraine considers the chance of NATO allowing membership of Ukraine and how Russia will respond to Ukraine formally asking to join.
> 
> Ukraine might think well what if we ask to join and that worries Russia and puts Russia into war mode again but NATO does not allow. That would **** them up even more and give Russia their initial allegation that Ukraine wants to join NATO which has been part of Russia's claim for initiating the war. It's not as simple as you said.



How does it worry them when they are already fighting now?? You only threaten to fight you before you actually fight, that threat is gone once you are already in a war. You don't swing around the fence and think maybe they will do this or maybe they will do that. You know they will attack, and that would already been calculated by NATO before any membership. I am not saying NATO will most definitely allow Ukraine membership.

You know they will go to war, because there WAS a war already, and if you allow Ukraine to join, then you consider that thread is being outweighed by security concern, I mean it's probably 9 months too late to care about what Russia think.....



serenity said:


> Do you think NATO will allow Ukraine to join and do you think Ukraine would make that move? Are you not ignoring how NATO and Ukraine would be worried about how Russia would respond? Considering all this is hypothetically after a settlement for ceasefire is agreed by both sides. then Ukriane decides to join NATO and NATO accepts. How russia would respond would depend on how much appetite and capability they have for war on one side and on the other side, how NATO will consider it a risk. Ukraine joins means Article 5 in action and maybe Russia is deterred by that if Ukraine goes ahead. Maybe Russia is not. And this risk assessment is surely on the minds of NATO and Ukraine, but not your's.


Ukraine already made that move, and they have applied for NATO membership again, that would be considered most likely after Finland and Sweden's membership which is going to be a year, so I will say in 3 or 4 years, there will be a result on NATO decision. 

I already said my point toward Ukrainian NATO membership, that is up to NATO and Ukraine to decide, not me and you and Russia, so why talking about something when it does not concern you??

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## serenity

jhungary said:


> Seriously, what do you think Russia "Can" do??
> 
> You can't start a war with NATO, you start using nuke, everybody dies, you are not economically big enough to threaten NATO and Ukraine. The only thing Russia can do, and probably already had done, is to warm up to China and become their vassal, on the other hand, would China want this particular hot mess when the Chinese themselves have Taiwan in their mind??
> 
> 
> 
> That equipment is NOT going back to NATO, NATO will not come back and ask for everything back after this war. Those stuff stays in Ukraine.
> 
> The problem of those equipment is big, not the biggest concern, Ukraine is using NATO playbook to fight Russia, *everything from fieldcraft to tactics down to intelligence operation are adopted by the Ukrainian, otherwise we can't feed them intel and they can't use it even if we do*. THAT, is the serious problem, because I know how NATO work, but if I do tell you how NATO fight war, or how US fight war, then I will have 20 years waiting for me back in Leavenworth, Kansas. If you know what I know completely, you can plan how to fight NATO off, because you know how NATO operate, then in any wargame you don't just guess what would NATO do, but you will know EXACTLY what would NATO do, and that's the problem.
> 
> Step back a bit, do you know why Ukraine is very successful on resisting invasion and capturing Russian land in counter attack? That's because they know what Russian will do, they were trained with Russian doctrine until at least 2014. Unless Russia had written the entire doctrine from scratch since 2014, that playbook, the one that Ukraine know, will be used against Ukraine, and Ukraine would know how NATO could counter those doctrine, because they know both sides. And to a lesser extend how China would react because Chinese Doctrine build on Russian/Soviet Doctrine. Which mean not only Ukraine is a really valued partner but also a serious liability if it changes side.
> 
> 
> 
> How does it worry them when they are already fighting now?? You only threaten to fight you before you actually fight, that threat is gone once you are already in a war. You don't swing around the fence and think maybe they will do this or maybe they will do that. You know they will attack, and that would already been calculated by NATO before any membership. I am not saying NATO will most definitely allow Ukraine membership.
> 
> You know they will go to war, because there WAS a war already, and if you allow Ukraine to join, then you consider that thread is being outweighed by security concern, I mean it's probably 9 months too late to care about what Russia think.....
> 
> 
> Ukraine already made that move, and they have applied for NATO membership again, that would be considered most likely after Finland and Sweden's membership which is going to be a year, so I will say in 3 or 4 years, there will be a result on NATO decision.
> 
> I already said my point toward Ukrainian NATO membership, that is up to NATO and Ukraine to decide, not me and you and Russia, so why talking about something when it does not concern you??



Maybe you didn't read my post. I said "AFTER settlement" is reached. If there is peace and stop of war, would Ukraine and NATO commit to allowing Ukraine to join NATO? To answer that question, we'd need to know how NATO considers the risk of Russian response and how Russia actually responds.

I said in my post that Russia may choose to not respond militarily due to whatever reasons. You already assumed that has to be the case.


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## RescueRanger

So where are the usual PDF Pro Russia, Putin Roadie's now?

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> Maybe you didn't read my post. I said "AFTER settlement" is reached. If there is peace and stop of war, would Ukraine and NATO commit to allowing Ukraine to join NATO? To answer that question, we'd need to know how NATO considers the risk of Russian response and how Russia actually responds.
> 
> I said in my post that Russia may choose to not respond militarily due to whatever reasons. You already assumed that has to be the case.


I did not assume anything is the case, I asked "What do you think Russia "*CAN*" do"

That limited to just a few things, which I have already mentioned.

1.) Russia attack Europe and Ukraine conventionally. That is as good as suicide if they settle, and after joining NATO.
2.) Russia attack Europe using Nuke. Everybody dies, no point to talk about.
3.) Russia join Chinese camp and hope China can do something. Again, as I mentioned, would China want to touch this pile when they have Taiwan to think about?
4.) Russia could do nothing but seriously condemn the act.

Again, did I miss something or do you think what would Russia most likely do if Ukraine join NATO??

On the other hand, Russia already invaded Ukraine twice, what make NATO think Russia is done this time after the settlement and there will not be a third time comes with a bigger and nastier problem?? I am sorry but forgive me if no one trust Russian word for it.


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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine hits jackpot as 'crate after crate' of ammo found in Kherson
> 
> 
> Ukraine's armed forces have made a welcome discovery in newly liberated Kherson as "crate after crate" of Russian ammunition is captured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> And the Russian left behind ALOT of ammunition aswell - every sign of a unorganised rout rather than an organised withdrawl..



Yes, because blowing up ammo is the easiest part of it all, but they, for example, abandoned 2 fully loaded, and ready to fire grads

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## A.P. Richelieu

serenity said:


> Russia of course would not allow even a post settlement Ukraine to become part of NATO. That goes without saying. Otherwise they have lost even a greater strategic goal than settling without annexing land.


Russia is not a part of the NATO membership procedure.

While NATO has set up conditions for membership, they can waive those conditions on a moments notice.
As long as every member agree to accept Ukraine as a member, that’s it.

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## Viet

serenity said:


> It's not up to Russia to discuss but Russia's response to Ukraine joining NATO post any settlement would be on the mind of NATO and Ukraine.
> 
> The question then becomes how would Russia respond if at all and if so, would NATO and Ukraine be okay with it. How does NATO and Ukraine anticipate Russian response will not necessarily be the Russian response either.
> 
> As for NATO weapons being used by Ukraine, well yes that is a point of concern for NATO in regards to any post settlement changes. If settlement is for ceasefire in return for Russia holding some land of Ukraine's, NATO equipment will either remain in Ukraine or go back to NATO. It doesn't mean their information and details would be delivered to Russia. NATO hasn't actually sent much advanced equipment or weapons to Ukraine. The only advanced stuff being used or helped is NATO ISR equipment which is operated by NATO and not by Ukraine. Anyway that is still a valid point it's just that you assumed there would be a total Russian takeover in future and there would not be western support then but the current NATO equipment in Ukraine would remain in Ukraine for Russia to capture in that hypothetical future Russian invasion that takes those equipment. Big stretch.
> 
> NATO membership permission will depend on how NATO considers Russia will respond and how Russia actually responds. Ukraine would want to join NATO post any settlement as you said due to how they can be sure Russia won't invade and if they did, would make it harder for Russia. But whether or not Ukraine can join will also depend on how Ukraine considers the chance of NATO allowing membership of Ukraine and how Russia will respond to Ukraine formally asking to join.
> 
> Ukraine might think well what if we ask to join and that worries Russia and puts Russia into war mode again but NATO does not allow. That would **** them up even more and give Russia their initial allegation that Ukraine wants to join NATO which has been part of Russia's claim for initiating the war. It's not as simple as you said.
> 
> Do you think NATO will allow Ukraine to join and do you think Ukraine would make that move? Are you not ignoring how NATO and Ukraine would be worried about how Russia would respond? Considering all this is hypothetically after a settlement for ceasefire is agreed by both sides. then Ukriane decides to join NATO and NATO accepts. How russia would respond would depend on how much appetite and capability they have for war on one side and on the other side, how NATO will consider it a risk. Ukraine joins means Article 5 in action and maybe Russia is deterred by that if Ukraine goes ahead. Maybe Russia is not. And this risk assessment is surely on the minds of NATO and Ukraine, but not your's.


Ukraine would accept neutrality in exchange for security by the US, NATO. But Putin wants more: total unconditional surrender, demilitarization, de-Nazi, and giving up territory, Crimea. Donbas. Ukraine would end up as small state without access to the seas, without access to natural resources. Practically a dead state. Now it’s up to the armies to decide.

Russia army has to be annihilated, Russia economy destroyed, Russia infrastructure in ruined.

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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> Yes, because blowing up ammo is the easiest part of it all, but they, for example, abandoned 2 fully loaded, and ready to fire grads


It just shows how the Russian forward lines were in complete disarray and uncontrolled panic *queue benny hill theme*. Any combat Engineer or ATO worth their salt could have daisy chained ammunition for a big kaboom. This shows one of two things:

1. Most of the soldiers fighting on the front lines are B teamers or rank amateurs.
2. Russians withdrew so fast there was no chance for an orderly withdrawal due to the speed and ferocity with which the Ukrainians advanced.

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## A.P. Richelieu

RescueRanger said:


> So where are the usual PDF Pro Russia, Putin Roadie's now?


Maybe starved to death. 
Somalia is no fun nowadays when Russia caused starvation

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## One_Nation

RescueRanger said:


> So where are the usual PDF Pro Russia, Putin Roadie's now?


They have been banned.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> They can't, that's why Kherson is more important than anywhere else, there are no way they can resupply a large force with their supply line being interdicted by the Ukrainian. That's why I said the chances of Russia completely lose this war is there once Ukraine took Kherson, because that give them a choice to defeat the entire Russian Army in Ukraine, not just post 2014 line but the entire country, in detail. They can isolate each bit and attack them with overwhelm local superiority and then move on the next one, and then the next one until there are no more Russian pocket in Ukraine.
> 
> Unless Russia now started to get their act together and found a way to counter those HIMARS and Western Artillery and Intelligence that feeding those Artillery, I don't see how Russia can turn this around. pumping more men in an already dired supply situation won't help, in fact, it will only get worse.


further advance won’t be easy. Now Russia troop concentration on the East bank however Ukraine army has no amphibious capability. The river is too wide, 1,000m minimum. Maybe 200km foot march via land corridor Saporischa, attacking them from northern flank.


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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And you are so uneducated that You do not know that NATO has nukes.


And you dont know read.

I talked about non-nuclear West Europe states.

France is a nuclear NATO member and they said they only will use their nukes to defend France land. They dont give a sht about other NATO members.

If you think UK, USA or France will use their nukes to defend Sweden, you're hallucinating.









Macron under fire for saying France wouldn’t respond in kind if Russia launched nuclear attack on Ukraine


French president says Paris would not trigger a nuclear response if Russia launched such a strike ‘in Ukraine or in the region.’




www.politico.eu







> France has a nuclear doctrine, that is based on the vital interests of the country and which are clearly defined.



Talk about conventional war strategies against a nuclear state is a stupid nonsense thing.

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## Paul2

Oldman1 said:


> Maybe the U.S. and NATO can provide the materials and technology for a bigger or powerful version to carry a 120 mortar round with GPS.



They got 2 for trials in August. The volunteer group in Poland made 2 variants: first drops 6 3.4kg 81mm, or 4 4.15kg mortar bombs, second drops 1 120mm

That's still work in progress. PID, and gyros needs tuning. We also need an optical flow sensor which can work at night.

It's hard to pilot, and currently requires somebody with experience piloting DIY quadcopters to not to crash within minutes. One time it went into pilot induced oscillations when fully loaded with bombs...

No doubt, it can be mass produced in Poland if money, and equipment will come.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Another reason is that EU cannot and will not deal with Ukrainian Refugee and Energy Crisis 2.0. The only way they can do that is to have a stablised Eastern front, and the only way that can do that is to accept Ukrainian NATO membership. What Ukraine need to do is to degenerate Russia to a point that it will take them a long time to recover and hence cannot threaten the stability around Europe, because rest assure, even if Ukraine joined NATO, Russia is not just going to stop there, there are still a few non-NATO member in Europe Russia can bully. And they will if Ukraine joined NATO. Only if Russia conventional capability being decayed to a point that it cannot used to threaten other country, would NATO consider Ukraine membership.



That's what I expect to see in 2-3 yrs too, but....


Belarus
Blakans


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> And you dont know read.
> 
> I talked about non-nuclear West Europe states.
> 
> France is a nuclear NATO member and they said they only will use their nukes to defend France land. They dont give a sht about other NATO members.
> 
> If you think UK, USA or France will use their nukes to defend Sweden, you're hallucinating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Macron under fire for saying France wouldn’t respond in kind if Russia launched nuclear attack on Ukraine
> 
> 
> French president says Paris would not trigger a nuclear response if Russia launched such a strike ‘in Ukraine or in the region.’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about conventional war strategies against a nuclear state is a stupid nonsense thing.


That France will not use nuclear weapons if a non NATO country is attacked with nuclear weapons is not the same as saying France will not use nuclear weapons if a NATO nation is attacked with nuclear weapons.
Macron has been criticized within France for making this statement, so opinions are divided.
In wargames, NATO has concluded that if one NATO country is attacked with a single nuclear weapon, this will be followed by more, and the best outcome for NATO is always a fullblown attack with every nuclear weapon in the arsenal.

So you think that NATO is going to prefer a subpar solution.

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## Paul2

BHAN85 said:


> France is a nuclear NATO member and they said they only will use their nukes to defend France land. They dont give a sht about other NATO members



France has a unique exception given to them by NATO that their nukes will be not Art. 5 triggerable.



serenity said:


> It's not up to Russia to discuss but Russia's response to Ukraine joining NATO post any settlement would be on the mind of NATO and Ukraine.
> 
> The question then becomes how would Russia respond if at all and if so, would NATO and Ukraine be okay with it. How does NATO and Ukraine anticipate Russian response will not necessarily be the Russian response either.
> 
> As for NATO weapons being used by Ukraine, well yes that is a point of concern for NATO in regards to any post settlement changes. If settlement is for ceasefire in return for Russia holding some land of Ukraine's, NATO equipment will either remain in Ukraine or go back to NATO. It doesn't mean their information and details would be delivered to Russia. NATO hasn't actually sent much advanced equipment or weapons to Ukraine. The only advanced stuff being used or helped is NATO ISR equipment which is operated by NATO and not by Ukraine. Anyway that is still a valid point it's just that you assumed there would be a total Russian takeover in future and there would not be western support then but the current NATO equipment in Ukraine would remain in Ukraine for Russia to capture in that hypothetical future Russian invasion that takes those equipment. Big stretch.
> 
> NATO membership permission will depend on how NATO considers Russia will respond and how Russia actually responds. Ukraine would want to join NATO post any settlement as you said due to how they can be sure Russia won't invade and if they did, would make it harder for Russia. But whether or not Ukraine can join will also depend on how Ukraine considers the chance of NATO allowing membership of Ukraine and how Russia will respond to Ukraine formally asking to join.
> 
> Ukraine might think well what if we ask to join and that worries Russia and puts Russia into war mode again but NATO does not allow. That would **** them up even more and give Russia their initial allegation that Ukraine wants to join NATO which has been part of Russia's claim for initiating the war. It's not as simple as you said.
> 
> Do you think NATO will allow Ukraine to join and do you think Ukraine would make that move? Are you not ignoring how NATO and Ukraine would be worried about how Russia would respond? Considering all this is hypothetically after a settlement for ceasefire is agreed by both sides. then Ukriane decides to join NATO and NATO accepts. How russia would respond would depend on how much appetite and capability they have for war on one side and on the other side, how NATO will consider it a risk. Ukraine joins means Article 5 in action and maybe Russia is deterred by that if Ukraine goes ahead. Maybe Russia is not. And this risk assessment is surely on the minds of NATO and Ukraine, but not your's.



Russia didn't dare to use NBC against a non-NATO Ukraine even in the most opportune moment in May-July, and they will be afraid even more to use it against NATO Ukraine. That's simple.

Take a look how it's in Kharkow. They kept pounding the city with incendiaries, remote mining, and cluster.

UA started reacting with drone strikes on Bylhorod, and they went quiet after very light losses on their own territory.

If NATO-Ukarine will threaten to level a mid-sized Russian city on the border, they will concede.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591346841601204224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591339774715232256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591335283424837632
Russia - Gets thrown out of Kharkiv and Kherson - Keep trying to advance in Bakhmut. 🤷‍♂️

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## A.P. Richelieu

Viet said:


> further advance won’t be easy. Now Russia troop concentration on the East bank however Ukraine army has no amphibious capability. The river is too wide, 1,000m minimum. Maybe 200km foot march via land corridor Saporischa, attacking them from northern flank.


It is less than 300 meters in some places, but I guess that does not make any difference,


----------



## Paul2

serenity said:


> Russia may choose to not respond militarily due to whatever reasons. You already assumed that has to be the case.



Current Russian military is 50% of what they inherited from USSR, and 50% is what 15 years of huge oil, and gas profits bought them.

Some part of USSR weapons they lost are impossible to replace now because manufacturing facilities are now in Ukraine, or in Stans.

So, 15 years of good economy only bought them so much.

It will take them 5 years for a minimal rebuild, or maybe less for a "bum rush"

Most importantly, half of their tank fleet is gone physically, and you can't fight nuclear war without tanks.

On the other hand NATO still have old cold war NBC equipment untouched in storage.

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## jhungary

Joke of the day on Telegram, Part 2.

Sergei Lavrov sternly request Ukraine to unoccupy Kherson as that belong to Russia forever.....

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## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> That's what I expect to see in 2-3 yrs too, but....
> 
> 
> Belarus
> Blakans


All balkans are NATO except Bosnia, Serbia and Kosovo. And they are surrounded by NATO. So Russia cant do anything there.


----------



## Viet

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is less than 300 meters in some places, but I guess that does not make any difference,


Ok 300m is less than from what I read: the river is between 1km and 2km wide. The most important issue is how to bring heavy tanks and artillery safe over. Lets the Russians spend Christmas in trenches. while Ukraine can bombard them with himars.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> Ok 300m is less than from what I read: the river is between 1km and 2km wide. The most important issue is how to bring heavy tanks and artillery safe over. Lets the Russians spend Christmas in trenches. while Ukraine can bombard them with himars.


I dont know if they actually do this just to cause casualties. I would have thought they are used only to achieve a particular tactical manoeuvre and take a specific position. Not for attrition.


----------



## dexter

Security analyst Prof Michael Clarke explains how a Russian retreat does not make Kherson safe from Russia’s guns and missiles.
He says Ukraine will need to find a way to dislodge opposition forces and push them further back from the river otherwise the city will be at risk of continued missile and rocket attacks.


----------



## Viet

thetutle said:


> I dont know if they actually do this just to cause casualties. I would have thought they are used only to achieve a particular tactical manoeuvre and take a specific position. Not for attrition.


War is primitiv instinct. War is math. Ukraine can never kick the Russians out if they can’t inflict casualties to Russia at unsustainable rate. I know it’s cruel. But if Ukraine can kill more Russians then Putin can replace them then Ukraine wins. Almost all wars between a smaller country against a bigger opponent ends that way.


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> All balkans are NATO except Bosnia, Serbia and Kosovo. And they are surrounded by NATO. So Russia cant do anything there.











Two Suspected Russian Agents Among 14 Convicted in Montenegro Coup Plot (Published 2019)


The Russian suspects, believed to be back in Russia, were tried and sentenced in absentia in a plot to prevent Montenegro from joining NATO.




www.nytimes.com





It's not that they will drop their troops there. It's most Balkan states being fragile, and easy to subvert.

If Montenegra coup have succeeded, they might have ended up with a Russian military base there. Weak NATO members are covered by Art. 5, but internal subversion is still something Russians may try at them.


----------



## kingQamaR

RescueRanger said:


> It just shows how the Russian forward lines were in complete disarray and uncontrolled panic *queue benny hill theme*. Any combat Engineer or ATO worth their salt could have daisy chained ammunition for a big kaboom. This shows one of two things:
> 
> 1. Most of the soldiers fighting on the front lines are B teamers or rank amateurs.
> 2. Russians withdrew so fast there was no chance for an orderly withdrawal due to the speed and ferocity with which the Ukrainians advanced.



My guess is that for many of the Russians fighting in Ukraine, especially the conscripts, they have much less motivation to fight over land which has little importance to them, whereas Ukraine troops are fighting for their homeland. Add to that the problems with supplying good quality food & equipment to Russian troops and the increasingly bad weather, it is no wonder morale is low & effectiveness generally poor amongst the Z army. This war started because of ONE man and his greed for power and land, how many more people on both sides have to die before Russia decides enough?

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> further advance won’t be easy. Now Russia troop concentration on the East bank however Ukraine army has no amphibious capability. The river is too wide, 1,000m minimum. Maybe 200km foot march via land corridor Saporischa, attacking them from northern flank.


There are a few way Ukraine can cross, but those would come with high price. 

If they have to cross for whatever reason, they can use the kakhovka dam as a strong point and cross from there. Or air assault into the rear, that would be extremely risky

The safest and less risky point is they just attack from Orikhiv and move south toward either Mariupol or Melitipol while pressuring the Russian on the other side of the Dnieper. The thing is, you don't want Russia to move majority of those troop eastward, that will surge the ongoing Bakhmut offence, which mean Ukraine would need to offset that by sending freed troop from Kherson and help defend Bakhmut. Ukraine don't want that, they most likely wanted to attack Russian elsewhere riding the high.


----------



## kingQamaR

dexter said:


> Security analyst Prof Michael Clarke explains how a Russian retreat does not make Kherson safe from Russia’s guns and missiles.
> He says Ukraine will need to find a way to dislodge opposition forces and push them further back from the river otherwise the city will be at risk of continued missile and rocket attacks.



Traps aren't usually militarily decisive when your opponent knows exactly what your are doing. Russian communications are insecure and Ukraine has access to sophisticated intelligence gathering equipment plus its own very capable reconnaissance units. Russia has removed its best troops and heavy equipment but poured in conscripts in the hope of slowing down the Ukrainians. Once the cold weather settles in they will surrender in droves. As for their artillery, it has the fundamental problem that Ukraine now has far more sophisticated equipment with longer range. They have sophisticated counter battery radar and much faster shoot and scoot times. On top of that, if rumours that Russia is having to buy ammo from N Korea are true, then it indicates they have an ammo shortage. The situation is even worse in the air, with Ukrainian held territory able to deny access to Russian aircraft and drones but Russian air-defences being inadequate and degraded day by day.

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> It just shows how the Russian forward lines were in complete disarray and uncontrolled panic *queue benny hill theme*. Any combat Engineer or ATO worth their salt could have daisy chained ammunition for a big kaboom. This shows one of two things:
> 
> 1. Most of the soldiers fighting on the front lines are B teamers or rank amateurs.
> 2. Russians withdrew so fast there was no chance for an orderly withdrawal due to the speed and ferocity with which the Ukrainians advanced.


Ukraine just liberate an arms depot, in there were ten of thousand rounds of 152 munition. 

Unlike in Kharkiv, they know they are going to have to abandon their position, yet they didn't try to detonate (not much of a point to bring it with you) those munition and denied them for the Ukrainian. That showing how much training and control these troop have. 

What my friend suggested is that the regular, experienced guy left without telling the mobik and national guard, and the latter was left behind and retreat in panic.



Paul2 said:


> That's what I expect to see in 2-3 yrs too, but....
> 
> 
> Belarus
> Blakans


I don't thin Lukashenko would have an easy time if and when Russian was defeated. Would he suck up to China? And would China take them??

Balkan was surrounded by NATO, I don't see anything Russia can do except maybe in Serbia.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> War is primitiv instinct. War is math. Ukraine can never kick the Russians out if they can’t inflict casualties to Russia at unsustainable rate. I know it’s cruel. But if Ukraine can kill more Russians then Putin can replace them then Ukraine wins. Almost all wars between a smaller country against a bigger opponent ends that way.


I'm not sure you can deplete any countries ability to raise troops. I've never seen it in any conflict. US killed a million Vietnamese, nazis killed 6 million jews. You cant really deplete anyones ability to raise an army.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591386593201459207

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## BHAN85

Paul2 said:


> France has a unique exception given to them by NATO that their nukes will be not Art. 5 triggerable.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia didn't dare to use NBC against a non-NATO Ukraine even in the most opportune moment in May-July, and they will be afraid even more to use it against NATO Ukraine. That's simple.
> 
> Take a look how it's in Kharkow. They kept pounding the city with incendiaries, remote mining, and cluster.
> 
> UA started reacting with drone strikes on Bylhorod, and they went quiet after very light losses on their own territory.
> 
> If NATO-Ukarine will threaten to level a mid-sized Russian city on the border, they will concede.


Art V dont specify how states will defend each other.
Any state is free to choose the way they prefer.

But even if that was not the case, only a very naive person would think that Americans will help.

Americans are the main instigators of Ukraine mayhem.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591358702950309889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591400066069192704

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591388101741801473

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## A.P. Richelieu

Viet said:


> Ok 300m is less than from what I read: the river is between 1km and 2km wide. The most important issue is how to bring heavy tanks and artillery safe over. Lets the Russians spend Christmas in trenches. while Ukraine can bombard them with himars.


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591388101741801473



Shocking if they left behind an S300 system - those things are mobile and could have been easily transported over. It all point to a rout of Russian forces at a rate far faster than Russia was expecting.

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> Art V dont specify how states will defend each other.
> Any state is free to choose the way they prefer.
> 
> But even if that was not the case, only a very naive person would think that Americans will help.
> 
> Americans are the main instigators of Ukraine mayhem.


Only a very ###### person living in a different reality thinks that it was the United States that invaded Ukraine. The Russians invaded despite the US trying to discourage such lunacy. In the real world, Russia is the invader, and the US has been very helpful towards Ukraine.

Why make idiotic claims that every sane person knows is pure bullshit?

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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Only a very person living in a different reality thinks that it was the United States that invaded Ukraine. The Russians invaded despite the US trying to discourage such lunacy. In the real world, Russia is the invader, and the US has been very helpful towards Ukraine.
> 
> Why make idiotic claims that every sane person knows is pure bullshit?



USA has ways to avoid conflicts besides military way.

Iran Deal is the best example of how Americans can avoid a war if they want.

Besides, they provocated it, without Western money since 2014, it wouldnt be Ukraine mess.

The USSR has not existed anymore.

What is the sense of sustain Europe high standard life for USA? Nothing. It's a problem in a decreasing world in energy resources and raw materials.

Blow up Europe in a thousand pieces is a good thing from USA current interests point of view.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591409363058855938

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## RoadAmerica

Han Patriot said:


> Without the NATo arms supplies, Ukraine would have been gone. Putin underestimated Bidens wokeness. However irratating Trump was, he would have asked NATo to sign a treaty against expansion into Ukraine. All of this happened because of the greedy West, Ukraine is a large piece of bacon.
> 
> My bet is Russia can now concentrate attacking the East. China is the kingmaker here, that's why Biden wants to meet uncle Xi.


As if China has any pull in this conflict, boy you’re a Chinese cheerleader

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## Ali_Baba

Russian troops DESTROY Ukraine dam then flee Kherson dressed as CIVILIANS​








Russian troops DESTROY Ukraine dam then flee dressed as CIVILIANS


Incredible footage showed the moment the Nova Kakhovka dam on the Dnipro River was blown up by retreating Russian soldiers.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## RoadAmerica

RescueRanger said:


> So where are the usual PDF Pro Russia, Putin Roadie's now?


They’ve gone from Russia is winning to Russia will dictate any peace deal.
Maybe they should win a battle first 🤣

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591409363058855938



Remember how some said Himars wouldn't change anything..... 4 himars were enough to alter the course of the war.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591406652796055552


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591406100448161794

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## RoadAmerica

BHAN85 said:


> Art V dont specify how states will defend each other.
> Any state is free to choose the way they prefer.
> 
> But even if that was not the case, only a very naive person would think that Americans will help.
> 
> Americans are the main instigators of Ukraine mayhem.


No Russia is and a strong Europe benefits America.
All this America wants to see Europe weakened is utter nonsense, em their economies are intertwined


----------



## BHAN85

RoadAmerica said:


> No Russia is and a strong Europe benefits America.
> All this America wants to see Europe weakened is utter nonsense, em their economies are intertwined



I didnt say weakened, I said destroyed.

Iraq and Libya are the new paradigm of world domination.

Modern technology have made possible commerce with failed states.

Electronic spying + Drones bombing is a lot cheaper than rich societies with order.

Coldly thought is simple, but humans are emotional.

In current world scenario, it has a lot more sense a rich Mexico for USA, than a rich Germany.

And that's the trend, Mexico GDP surpassed Spain GDP a few ago.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591417611174416384

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591416170749792257

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591417747078287360
I hope that raccoon mauls that Nazi the first chance it gets

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## KingMamba

RescueRanger said:


> So where are the usual PDF Pro Russia, Putin Roadie's now?


Russians really a shell of their former selves.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591420091337670656

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## thetutle

kingQamaR said:


> The situation is even worse in the air, with Ukrainian held territory able to deny access to Russian aircraft and drones but Russian air-defences being inadequate and degraded day by day.


I find this the most remarkable.


----------



## 925boy

serenity said:


> But would *Ukraine*settle for Russia annexing parts of it? Even if just annexing smaller sections than the four new territories that Russia unilaterally declared as annexed?


Ukraine OR NATO?


----------



## Han Patriot

RoadAmerica said:


> As if China has any pull in this conflict, boy you’re a Chinese cheerleader


I am Chinese of course i cheer for China. Ask Biden if we have any pull... Lol


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591386593201459207


None of the guys are singing the anthem. And the blond curly haired guy looks very annoyed.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591403804783771648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591420647875694592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591420794361769988

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591420843028254723

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> I'm not sure you can deplete any countries ability to raise troops. I've never seen it in any conflict. US killed a million Vietnamese, nazis killed 6 million jews. You cant really deplete anyones ability to raise an army.


The question is whether or not the enemy can sustain the losses as yourself? Sure, the US inflicted more casualties on Vietnam army and population and vice versa. However 60,000 own deaths, 300,000 own wounded on the US army are too much for the US.
Russia itself can swallow more, however there is limit. I don’t think Russia can sustain losses of one million men deaths and wounded. Ukraine can.


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591421762981724187



Russians keep sending their men in waves after waves.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591424405535862785

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591403804783771648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591420647875694592
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591420794361769988
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591420843028254723


@The SC 
So after the 5 trucks and then abandoned s-300, now more is flowing in hour by hour. 

How is your “lost only 3 pieces of equipment” source looking buddy? 

maybe dont blindly copy paste russian propagandists in future?

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## Vergennes

Ukrainians are already shifting from Kherson to Zaporijia 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591372411005718528

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## KingMamba

Vergennes said:


> Ukrainians are already shifting from Kherson to Zaporijia
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591372411005718528


Is there a current updated map ?


----------



## kingQamaR

Ali_Baba said:


> Russian troops DESTROY Ukraine dam then flee Kherson dressed as CIVILIANS​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops DESTROY Ukraine dam then flee dressed as CIVILIANS
> 
> 
> Incredible footage showed the moment the Nova Kakhovka dam on the Dnipro River was blown up by retreating Russian soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



If the Russians blow the dam, they'll end up drowning their own men as the area they are falling back too is at a lower elevation then Kherson, but you never know what levels of incompetence they might reach.

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## thetutle

Ali_Baba said:


> NATO/USAF/RAF did this so perfectly in Gulf War 1 - when going after scud launchers in the 1990's - but 30 years laters - Russia still cannot do the same thing !!!!! Shocking ..


Of course, because russia is much more than 30 years behind US in military tech and capability. Probably 50 years.



zartosht said:


> What do you think will happen when the Russians are fully mobilized?


Create a more target rich environment?


BHAN85 said:


> In the short term things are going ok.
> In the long term we dont know.


hehehe in the long term we wont be around. 


serenity said:


> So why ignore that entirely and simply claim as if you are absolutely right that Ukraine will have to join NATO for future security. Isn't that ignoring the whole supposed reason for actual direct kinetic war?


No it's not actually. 


serenity said:


> It's not up to Russia to discuss but Russia's response to Ukraine joining NATO post any settlement would be on the mind of NATO and Ukraine.


I think it's irrelevant. 


serenity said:


> Are you not ignoring how NATO and Ukraine would be worried about how Russia would respond?


No one cares how they would respond. 


jhungary said:


> Balkan was surrounded by NATO, I don't see anything Russia can do except maybe in Serbia.


They cant do anything in Serbia either. Firstly, Serbs will not let them, not even the serbs are crazy enough to let Russians into their country. Historically the only time Russian troops were in Serbia was 1945 and only for a couple of months and only in the northern part of the country. Had they stayed longer there would have been a war between then Yugoslavia and USSR. Russian troops are definitely not welcome in Serbia, the country that support russia the most. 


BHAN85 said:


> What is the sense of sustain Europe high standard life for USA? Nothing. It's a problem in a decreasing world in energy resources and raw materials.


There are no decreasing energy resources, Europe just wants to close all its coal and nuke plants and is then surprised electricity is so expensive. 


RoadAmerica said:


> As if China has any pull in this conflict, boy you’re a Chinese cheerleader


he is called "Han Patriot" so yeah, he is.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> USA has ways to avoid conflicts besides military way.
> 
> Iran Deal is the best example of how Americans can avoid a war if they want.
> 
> Besides, they provocated it, without Western money since 2014, it wouldnt be Ukraine mess.
> 
> The USSR has not existed anymore.
> 
> What is the sense of sustain Europe high standard life for USA? Nothing. It's a problem in a decreasing world in energy resources and raw materials.
> 
> Blow up Europe in a thousand pieces is a good thing from USA current interests point of view.


Helping a country to defend itself is not provocation.
Helping a country by cleaning up corruption is not provocation.
Helping a country by establishing trade is not provocation.
Unless you are deranged.

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## Shawnee

Ukraine says Iran has stopped transfer of ballistic missiles to Russia because of an offer that was difficult to reject.









День двести шестьдесят первый. Беседа с @Alexey Arestovych Алексей Арестович


#Фейгин #ФейгинLIVE #арестович День двести шестьдесят первый. Беседа с @Alexey Arestovych Алексей Арестович (Киев).https://feygin-live.customprint.market/uk...




www.youtube.com

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## 925boy

Han Patriot said:


> The Americans were already dangling Siberia as a reward if we join the sanctions.


Xi Jinping knows that offer is not real, tangible or possible.



serenity said:


> Russia is as great a threat to China as it is to Europe!


As of today? if yes, then based on what? please back this up- this is a bogus claim that is just your projection.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591414060989521921
Don't hear much about tiktok kadyrovites lately after they got himarsed.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591458133632815106

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## Ali_Baba

Tactically, blowing up the bridges in Kerson made alot of sense for the Russians, but strategically it did not. 

Russia could have always left the threat of re-invasion open, but that is gone now.

Ukraine can keep a peace keeping force and relocate the bulk of their resources else where.

Do remember, Ukraine had numerical superiority as they were progressively beating Russian occupation forces in the Kherson region.


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## 925boy

Shawnee said:


> Ukraine says Iran has stopped transfer of ballistic missiles to Russia because of an offer that was difficult to reject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> День двести шестьдесят первый. Беседа с @Alexey Arestovych Алексей Арестович
> 
> 
> #Фейгин #ФейгинLIVE #арестович День двести шестьдесят первый. Беседа с @Alexey Arestovych Алексей Арестович (Киев).https://feygin-live.customprint.market/uk...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com


at the end of this Ukrainian war, the position and leverage of Iran and its military will be very high and clear - its already happening. But also, NATO cant win against Russia AND Iran at the same time- so NATO still has a problem on their hand no matter what - Iran wont throw Russia at the dogs, and Russia wont collapse or lose bad on Ukraine - the war is fluid and like @serenity smartly said- whats the standard for a victory in this war?

Ukraine will suffer ALOT this winter - that is clear to everyone, including NATO. we should get ready to all donate blankets and generators to Ukranians...joke.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591472569525604353

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## Shawnee

925boy said:


> at the end of this Ukrainian war, the position and leverage of Iran and its military will be very high and clear - its already happening. But also, NATO cant win against Russia AND Iran at the same time- so NATO still has a problem on their hand no matter what - Iran wont throw Russia at the dogs, and Russia wont collapse or lose bad on Ukraine - the war is fluid and like @serenity smartly said- whats the standard for a victory in this war?
> 
> Ukraine will suffer ALOT this winter - that is clear to everyone, including NATO. we should get ready to all donate blankets and generators to Ukranians...joke.



I see no easy end or way out of this war.

Iran has proven its efficient and cost- effective weapons already.

Iran offers the best price-efficiency combo.

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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Helping a country to defend itself is not provocation.
> Helping a country by cleaning up corruption is not provocation.
> Helping a country by establishing trade is not provocation.
> Unless you are deranged.


Tell that to USA in Cuba missile crisis 1962 



thetutle said:


> There are no decreasing energy resources, Europe just wants to close all its coal and nuke plants and is then surprised electricity is so expensive.



Right now Diesel liter is 20 ct more expensive than Gasoline, it's something unique in Spain history.









Diesel prices around the world, 05-Dec-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com


Diesel prices by country using official data sources.




www.globalpetrolprices.com













Gasoline prices around the world, 05-Dec-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com


Gas prices by country using official data sources.




www.globalpetrolprices.com





What's the cause? Diesel is harder to manufacture from non-crude oil sources (like oil shale).

Peak oil of normal crude oil was more than one decade ago.

Problems will increase.

Moreover, even if energy were endless, what is the sense for USA of sustain Europe high living standards? Does that beneficiate USA in some way? No, it was useful when USSR existed, it's not useful for USA anymore.

It's more useful for USA a rich Mexico, than a rich EU.


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## kingQamaR

Ali_Baba said:


> Tactically, blowing up the bridges in Kerson made alot of sense for the Russians, but strategically it did not.
> 
> Russia could have always left the threat of re-invasion open, but that is gone now.
> 
> Ukraine can keep a peace keeping force and relocate the bulk of their resources else where.
> 
> Do remember, Ukraine had numerical superiority as they were progressively beating Russian occupation forces in the Kherson region.



People who actually understand the situation have been saying from the beginning that the Dnieper would become the new dug in border. Everything east of it is to be part of Russia and is supposedly say’. populated with Russians. I don’t believe that. Regarding the Moscow dictator , he was way to ambitious plans in take over of all Ukrainian its an absolute embarrassing Disaster for this Russian army. Been totally out classed.


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## Shawnee

Shawnee said:


> Ukraine says Iran has stopped transfer of ballistic missiles to Russia because of an offer that was difficult to reject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> День двести шестьдесят первый. Беседа с @Alexey Arestovych Алексей Арестович
> 
> 
> #Фейгин #ФейгинLIVE #арестович День двести шестьдесят первый. Беседа с @Alexey Arestovych Алексей Арестович (Киев).https://feygin-live.customprint.market/uk...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com



Part of the offer. Iran could not resist the offer.

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## 925boy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Only a very person living in a different reality thinks that it was the United States that invaded Ukraine.


US didnt invade Ukraine, but US setup the conditions for the Russian invasion of Ukraine- thats the truth and reality.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Russians invaded despite the US trying to discourage such lunacy.


Because NATO was integrating Ukraine at that point and not reversing- history will tell the full story you are ignoring on PDF.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> In the real world, Russia is the invader,


Then why did over 6bn of the world's population not condemn Russia in the UN when it voted on censuring Russia for invading Ukraine?


A.P. Richelieu said:


> and the US has been very helpful towards Ukraine.


Oh for sure...Ukraine is a NATO investment, but it wont work - and now US and EU are low on critical ammunition- better pray to God you dont enter anotyher war right now- your adversaries will eat you up cuz you have fewer and less quality weaponry to fight back with RIGHT NOW. lol.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Why make idiotic claims that every sane person knows is pure bullshit?


its idiotic to you, but its factual- dont get personal,argue the point.

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## gambit

Still waiting for that Russian 'total war' the Chinese guys have been talking about...

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## 925boy

thetutle said:


> Of course, because russia is much more than 30 years behind US in military tech and capability. Probably 50 years.


Bogus stories you tell to just feel better- Russia still has technologies US doesnt have- one example? HGV - US has not deployed any HGV in its military- its behind - stop gassing people here with lies pls. Russia still has missile, sub, warfare technology that US doesnt have equivalents of.

While US is probably ahead of Russia in military tech, i can agree with that because its reasonable, but to say its 50 years behind when US also buys space rocket engines from Russia still, that tells me thats an exaggeration.



Shawnee said:


> I see no easy end or way out of this war.


The chance that this winter will be "manageable" or "ok" for Ukrainian military, IMO, is quite low. Ukraine is low on trooops, ammunition, fuel, etc- alot of things - if and when Russia makes a big push soon, Ukraine probably wont be able to hold all territory it has now- time is not on Ukraine's side, which means as time passes, Ukraine is at more disadvantage, period, Russia wont let Ukraine go so easily without getting something that secures it more in the future.


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## Shawnee

For 10 years here on this forum, we tried to teach the Saudis and others that Iran can bring you to 0-0-0 in the first hour of the war with ballistic missiles and drones.

Ukraine war did all the talking in practice.

It is hard to be without factories, power, water, gas stations, refineries, infrastructures.

It is a slow way to defeat and torture without any use of fission or fusion materials.

Now they know it very well

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## Reashot Xigwin

Shawnee said:


> For 10 years here on this forum, we tried to teach the Saudis and others that Iran can bring you to 0-0-0 in the first hour of the war with ballistic missiles and drones.
> 
> Ukraine war did all the talking in practice.
> 
> It is hard to be without factories, power, water, gas stations, refineries, infrastructures.
> 
> It is a slow way to defeat and torture without any use of fission or fusion materials.
> 
> Now they know it very well

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## Shawnee

Reashot Xigwin said:


> View attachment 896003



Noice 
Then stop sending offers we cannot resist

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL on 1 side the Ukrainian have the Vulkan/Malyuk while the Russian have whatever the hell is that thing? This is literally the first time I see a stock pumped gun. 

Need help id this gun stat!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591485153930809344


Shawnee said:


> Noice
> Then stop sending offers we cannot resist
> 
> 
> View attachment 896005




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591474622037360649


thetutle said:


> Of course, because russia is much more than 30 years behind US in military tech and capability. Probably 50 years.
> 
> 
> Create a more target rich environment?
> 
> hehehe in the long term we wont be around.
> 
> No it's not actually.
> 
> I think it's irrelevant.
> 
> No one cares how they would respond.
> 
> They cant do anything in Serbia either. Firstly, Serbs will not let them, not even the serbs are crazy enough to let Russians into their country. Historically the only time Russian troops were in Serbia was 1945 and only for a couple of months and only in the northern part of the country. Had they stayed longer there would have been a war between then Yugoslavia and USSR. Russian troops are definitely not welcome in Serbia, the country that support russia the most.
> 
> There are no decreasing energy resources, Europe just wants to close all its coal and nuke plants and is then surprised electricity is so expensive.
> 
> he is called "Han Patriot" so yeah, he is.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590384969301757955

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## Reashot Xigwin

gambit said:


> Still waiting for that Russian 'total war' the Chinese guys have been talking about...




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590877373666562049

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## Ali_Baba

Putin reeling as Russian 'headquarters' obliterated, leaving 80 dead​








Putin reeling as Ukraine smashes Russian 'headquarters' killing 80


Ukrainian forces have bombarded a series of key targets, devastating Russian forces while they press the attack.




www.express.co.uk





>> relentless pursuit of the russian invaders.

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Tactically, blowing up the bridges in Kerson made alot of sense for the Russians, but strategically it did not.
> 
> Russia could have always left the threat of re-invasion open, but that is gone now.
> 
> Ukraine can keep a peace keeping force and relocate the bulk of their resources else where.
> 
> Do remember, Ukraine had numerical superiority as they were progressively beating Russian occupation forces in the Kherson region.


That's because if they leave those bridge open and even damaged, that have more threat to the Russian than they can do with the Ukrainian. 

This is a complete route, they aren't coming back there, not with sufficient number and not with efficient troop. The best they can hope for it to dug into no man's land which is going to be tough. The best-case scenario for Russia as of now is to have the majority of those troop stay intact and redeploy somewhere to the East and maybe try to get more land in the East, but this is going to be harder to say than done, because Ukraine will apply pressure to the Russian between Zaporizhzhia and Kherson. 

That's the best case scenario. If they cannot supply the troop already in Kherson and that did not make any progress, the best you can hope for is a draw, then there aren't any point to keep going back to Kherson, unless again, if Russian clean up their act.


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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> Shocking if they left behind an S300 system - those things are mobile and could have been easily transported over. It all point to a rout of Russian forces at a rate far faster than Russia was expecting.



UA, and US intel have overestimated

Troop numbers
Number of hardware RU side had
In those 9 days since they have started moving out, they really managed to move a significan't portion of their hardware out, while UA expected more of RU forces hiding deeper inland. Their engineers indeed managed to operate more crossings which werent't spotted from space, because they didn't reuse landing points. And they used BMDs as watercrafts at night.

RU had near zero armour recovery, but they did move their husks, damaged, and inoperable vehicles around, for god knows what reason, and recon took some of those vehicle dumps, and them being moved as RU outposts.

While their constant repositionings were to evade HiMARS, and Excalibur, this simulatenously threw off sat imagery analysts, and field recon.

Satellites, because same vehicles were photographed over multiple satellite passes in different locations
Repositionings made an impression of RU reinforcements
RU trivial mindgames on the radio reinforced that, because nobody took such possibility seriously

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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> at the end of this Ukrainian war, the position and leverage of Iran and its military will be very high and clear - its already happening. But also, NATO cant win against Russia AND Iran at the same time- so NATO still has a problem on their hand no matter what - Iran wont throw Russia at the dogs, and Russia wont collapse or lose bad on Ukraine - the war is fluid and like @serenity smartly said- whats the standard for a victory in this war?
> 
> Ukraine will suffer ALOT this winter - that is clear to everyone, including NATO. we should get ready to all donate blankets and generators to Ukranians...joke.


Please tell me why Nato cannot beat Russia and Iran at the same time? 

Military expenditure, military material, experience. It is stacked heavily in Natos favour. Increasingly more with russias misadventure in ukraine.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591403804783771648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591420647875694592
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591420794361769988
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591420843028254723



At least a hundred units of intact armour, 40+ of artillery as of last updates on UA public channels.

Juicy stuff: command, and comms vehicles with intact officers' documents. The biggest scoop: RU 22nd corps command section have left the region on the 3rd of October.

Everybody colonel level, and above was likelly already out by late summer, when Himarsing have started.


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## Viet

gambit said:


> Still waiting for that Russian 'total war' the Chinese guys have been talking about...


Friends forever

Still waiting for the PLA to deliver ready to eat meals.





© James Ferguson





Military

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## Shawnee

ZeGerman said:


> Please tell me why Nato cannot beat Russia and Iran at the same time?
> 
> Military expenditure, military material, experience. It is stacked heavily in Natos favour. Increasingly more with russias misadventure in ukraine.



Beating a nuclear state is meaningless. Weakening sure.

Iran has the capacity of zeroing most of the world energy in a very short time

Hence:
Spiking inflation
Stagflation
Recession
Collapsing retirement funds
Changing presidential elections


Add to that
Zeroing Israeli infrastructures
And more

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## Hack-Hook

kingQamaR said:


> If the Russians blow the dam, they'll end up drowning their own men as the area they are falling back too is at a lower elevation then Kherson, but you never know what levels of incompetence they might reach.


not exactly , they didn't destroyed it , they breached it , in short they just destroyed the road on the dam . now the dam empty slowly , it's like opening its sluice way . the water behind the dam won't be released instantly to increase the water level dramatically , it will be like a heavy rain on upper hand of the river

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591516388543586305



Bakhmut is literally becoming the graveyard of russian soldiers and wagner terrorists

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## 925boy

ZeGerman said:


> Please tell me why Nato cannot beat Russia and Iran at the same time?


because losing wars is NATO's profession -lost both Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and other battlefields they showed up, claimed they defeated the enemy by using "advanced and precise weapons", but always losing the war in the end- logic tells me a distracted NATo that didnt let itself recover from the Afghanistan war, ONLY TO JUMP INTO another serious proxy war with the 2nd largest and most effective military power on earth, i think i i will bet my money on not NATO - NATO doesnt have the kind of record that a Ukraine war winner will have.


ZeGerman said:


> Military expenditure, military material, experience.


mostly wasted , and i hope that wasnt borrowed buddy- look at the hardware left in the hasty exit from Afghanistan!


ZeGerman said:


> It is stacked heavily in Natos favour.


talk is cheap -NATO's actions dont say that. NATO cant muster forces publicly and openly against Russia (kind of done so), CHina or Iran...they'll get obliterated and many will die also- NATO is afraid of that part.


ZeGerman said:


> Increasingly more with russias misadventure in ukraine.


thats temporarily, and you sound like Bush right after he declared victory in the Iraq war about 12 years early- the war isnt over until it is, and we dunno when that will be, but we know war is logistics, and Ukraine's logistics are in worse shape despite the help from NATO- Ukraine will HURT bad this winter- we all know it and its inevitable, no one even knows if Ukraine can hold the land it just got....its a puppet army- so its always propped up and that hides its real state and overall situation.

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> Tell that to USA in Cuba missile crisis 1962


So you back off and try to derail the thread.
That is a long way from the stupid claim that the US is to blame for the war.

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## LeGenD

925boy said:


> Bogus stories you tell to just feel better- Russia still has technologies US doesnt have- one example? HGV - US has not deployed any HGV in its military- its behind - stop gassing people here with lies pls. Russia still has missile, sub, warfare technology that US doesnt have equivalents of.
> 
> While US is probably ahead of Russia in military tech, i can agree with that because its reasonable, but to say its 50 years behind when US also buys space rocket engines from Russia still, that tells me thats an exaggeration.
> 
> 
> The chance that this winter will be "manageable" or "ok" for Ukrainian military, IMO, is quite low. Ukraine is low on trooops, ammunition, fuel, etc- alot of things - if and when Russia makes a big push soon, Ukraine probably wont be able to hold all territory it has now- time is not on Ukraine's side, which means as time passes, Ukraine is at more disadvantage, period, Russia wont let Ukraine go so easily without getting something that secures it more in the future.


US developed and tested an advanced HGV prototype Falcon HTV-2 in 2010 and 2011. This prototype was MACH 20 capable in endo-atmospheric conditions - a first in the world.



https://www.darpa.mil/program/falcon-htv-2



The test that was conducted in 2011 had promising results:














DARPA releases video of HTV-2 hypersonic glider flight


An unmanned glider streaks over the Pacific Ocean at 20 times the speed of sound in a video released Thursday by a U.S. defense research agency experimenting with technology that could give the military the ability to strike any part of the globe within an hour.




 phys.org





This experiment was in connection to Pentagon's Prompt Global Strike program. But Pentagon scrapped HGV-2 project for unknown reasons.

Russians took inspiration from HTV-2 experiments to develop Avangard HGV. Avangard is aimed to deliver nuclear payload (strategic application).

But Pentagon is interested in broader conventional application(s).

For example:















'Confident' Of 2023 Fielding Goal, Army Dubs Hypersonic Weapon 'Dark Eagle' - Breaking Defense


Training with the first Long Range Hypersonic Weapon prototype system will commence on Oct. 18, says Rob Strider, deputy director of the Army Hypersonic Project Office.




breakingdefense.com





US is thinking long-term in regards to application of hypersonic weapons in warfare.

-----

You are correct to point out that NASA relied upon Russian RD-180 engines to power its rockets for a long time in a clear show of American complacency.

But Elon Musk came to the fore and slowly but surely changed the game with his SpaceX initiative.

Merlin family of rocket engines:














Merlin Engine (Merlin-1D) - Falcon 9 & Falcon Heavy


Gimbaled engines use LOX/RP-1 turbopump gas-generator design for reusable rockets of Falcon series.



www.wevolver.com





Resuable rocket technology:






Reusable rockets: revolutionizing access to outer space - DNV


Reusable rockets: revolutionizing access to outer space - DNV




www.dnv.com





SpaceX have revolutionized spacefaring missions and business with its solutions:









8 ways that SpaceX has transformed spaceflight


SpaceX has changed the spaceflight landscape during its first 20 years of existence.




www.space.com










U.S. Kicking Russian Rocket Engines to the Curb


U.S. Kicking Russian Rocket Engines to the Curb




www.nationaldefensemagazine.org





-----

What makes you think that Ukraine is low on troops, ammunition, and fuel?

Ukranian armed forces have significantly expanded in size during the war - from 260,000 troops at the start of war to 700,000 troops in the present.






Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com





In regards to equipment, Ukrainian armed forces have received different types of weapon systems and munitions from multiple countries around the world during the war. Ukranian armed forces have also captured a huge count of Russian weapon systems and munitions during the war. These developments helped replace equipment losses and replenish stocks.

Let us focus on Ukranian artillery forces for now. Ukraine has received over a million rounds and the list of suppliers have expanded in time:









Ukraine Has Received Over A Million Artillery Rounds From The U.S.


Ukraine's fight against Russia has gobbled up an incredible amount of artillery rounds, with over a million provided by the U.S. alone.




www.thedrive.com





Ukranian artillery forces also have qualitative edge over Russian artillery forces in the present:









With Western Weapons, Ukraine Is Turning the Tables in an Artillery War


In the southern Kherson region, Ukraine now has the advantage in range and precision guidance of artillery, rockets and drones, erasing what had been a critical Russian asset.




www.nytimes.com





Global gas supply crunch is sorted out by now:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/28/gas-prices-europe-energy-crisis/











‘Major push’ for gas amid Ukraine war accelerating climate breakdown


Experts say world has ‘overreached’ in replacing Russian supply, which could kill 1.5C target




www.theguardian.com





Surprise...

Ukraine have its own arrangements:









Ukraine seals gas supply deal with US for winter - Interfax quotes PM


Ukraine has reached an agreement with the United States on the supply of 2 billion cubic metres of natural gas over the fourth quarter of 2022 and the first three months of 2023, Interfax news agency quoted the prime minister as saying on Wednesday.




www.reuters.com





You have fallen for older concerns and headlines. You need to *CATCH UP* with latest trends.



925boy said:


> because losing wars is NATO's profession -lost both Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and other battlefields they showed up, claimed they defeated the enemy by using "advanced and precise weapons", but always losing the war in the end- logic tells me a distracted NATo that didnt let itself recover from the Afghanistan war, ONLY TO JUMP INTO another serious proxy war with the 2nd largest and most effective military power on earth, i think i i will bet my money on not NATO - NATO doesnt have the kind of record that a Ukraine war winner will have.
> 
> mostly wasted , and i hope that wasnt borrowed buddy- look at the hardware left in the hasty exit from Afghanistan!
> 
> talk is cheap -NATO's actions dont say that. NATO cant muster forces publicly and openly against Russia (kind of done so), CHina or Iran...they'll get obliterated and many will die also- NATO is afraid of that part.
> 
> thats temporarily, and you sound like Bush right after he declared victory in the Iraq war about 12 years early- the war isnt over until it is, and we dunno when that will be, but we know war is logistics, and Ukraine's logistics are in worse shape despite the help from NATO- Ukraine will HURT bad this winter- we all know it and its inevitable, no one even knows if Ukraine can hold the land it just got....its a puppet army- so its always propped up and that hides its real state and overall situation.


Let us put it in this way: NATO have much better battlefield performances and achievements to show than both Russia and Iran.



Russian Air Force Is Very Effective In Ukraine








Zelensky's office calls for strikes on Iran


Every one agree they must bomb Iran, and destroy Iran infrastructure and facilities and want Iran gone. but also every one also agree that they themselves don't do it and don't want to be part of it , but its the others that must do it. Wonder Why?



defence.pk





But you keeping repeating your narrative like a broken record. Point of a debate is to learn from others. Have you?

You were proven wrong in this thread before. And this is becoming a routine now.

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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> because losing wars is NATO's profession -lost both Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and other battlefields they showed up,


Kicked out saddam and al qaeda with ease. 
Losing the “winning hearts”/nation building phase. 
The latter says less about military might however. You are making that thought error….

Also…NATO record against russia/soviets has been pretty strong:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/19/finland-sweden-nato-maps/



Russian influence and power crumbling before an ever expanding Nato. 


925boy said:


> claimed they defeated the enemy by using "advanced and precise weapons", but always losing the war in the end- logic tells me a distracted NATo that didnt let itself recover from the Afghanistan war,


What is there to recover from?? The last years were a handful of Nato troops and costs were down alot as well….

This is nothing on Nato manpower/material/budget….you can count i assume???


925boy said:


> ONLY TO JUMP INTO another serious proxy war with the 2nd largest and most effective military power on earth, i think i i will bet my money on not NATO - NATO doesnt have the kind of record that a Ukraine war winner will have.


Effective? 
nato training, intelligence, weapons..those have been effective. Not this embarrassment from russia.


925boy said:


> talk is cheap -NATO's actions dont say that. NATO cant muster forces publicly and openly against Russia (kind of done so), CHina or Iran...they'll get obliterated and many will die also- NATO is afraid of that part.


Depends on the casus belli and what leads to war. Open agression from russia/iran will be punished. 

Ukranian will to resist is immensely high.
Eu support is in large majority.
Usa support is also majority. 


925boy said:


> thats temporarily, and you sound like Bush right after he declared victory in the Iraq war about 12 years early- the war isnt over until it is, and we dunno when that will be, but we know war is logistics, and Ukraine's logistics are in worse shape despite the help from NATO- Ukraine will HURT bad this winter- we all know it and its inevitable, no one even knows if Ukraine can hold the land it just got....its a puppet army- so its always propped up and that hides its real state and overall situation.



ANA and Iraqis dropped their weapons and ran…however…80%+ ukranians support closer EU ties. Their hearts are now firmly with the west. 

Winning hearts and mind in ukraine is not something to worry about. Now that brings us with natos military and economic might stacking up against russia….sorry to say that dwarfs russia….

Take more screenshots buddy…russia will break itself on ukraine…and never dare to attack a cm of proper Nato land…for a reason most know (except for dimwits)

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## Mista

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590877373666562049



Crap, I had to find the original video.   









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www.bilibili.com


----------



## ZeGerman

LeGenD said:


> US developed and tested an advanced HGV prototype Falcon HTV-2 in 2010 and 2011. This prototype was MACH 20 capable in endo-atmospheric conditions - a first in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.darpa.mil/program/falcon-htv-2
> 
> 
> 
> The test that was conducted in 2011 produced promising results:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DARPA releases video of HTV-2 hypersonic glider flight
> 
> 
> An unmanned glider streaks over the Pacific Ocean at 20 times the speed of sound in a video released Thursday by a U.S. defense research agency experimenting with technology that could give the military the ability to strike any part of the globe within an hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> phys.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This experiment was in connection to Pentagon's Prompt Global Strike program. But Pentagon scrapped HGV-2 project for unknown reasons.
> 
> Russians took inspiration from HTV-2 experiments to develop Avangard HGV. Avangard is aimed to deliver nuclear payload (strategic application).
> 
> But Pentagon is interested in broader conventional application(s).
> 
> For example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Confident' Of 2023 Fielding Goal, Army Dubs Hypersonic Weapon 'Dark Eagle' - Breaking Defense
> 
> 
> Training with the first Long Range Hypersonic Weapon prototype system will commence on Oct. 18, says Rob Strider, deputy director of the Army Hypersonic Project Office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> breakingdefense.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US is thinking long-term in regards to application of hypersonic weapons in warfare.
> 
> -----
> 
> You are correct to point out that NASA relied upon Russian RD-180 engines to power its rockets for a long time in a clear show of American complacency.
> 
> But Elon Musk came to the fore and slowly but surely changed the game with his SpaceX initiative.
> 
> Merlin family of rocket engines:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merlin Engine (Merlin-1D) - Falcon 9 & Falcon Heavy
> 
> 
> Gimbaled engines use LOX/RP-1 turbopump gas-generator design for reusable rockets of Falcon series.
> 
> 
> 
> www.wevolver.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Resuable rocket technology:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reusable rockets: revolutionizing access to outer space - DNV
> 
> 
> Reusable rockets: revolutionizing access to outer space - DNV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dnv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SpaceX have literally revolutionized spacefaring missions and business with its solutions by now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8 ways that SpaceX has transformed spaceflight
> 
> 
> SpaceX has changed the spaceflight landscape during its first 20 years of existence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.space.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Kicking Russian Rocket Engines to the Curb
> 
> 
> U.S. Kicking Russian Rocket Engines to the Curb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationaldefensemagazine.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> What makes you think that Ukraine is low on troops, ammunition, and fuel?
> 
> Ukranian armed forces have significantly expanded in size during the war - from 260,000 troops at the start of war to 700,000 troops in the present.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In regards to equipment, Ukrainian armed forces have received different types of weapon systems and munitions from multiple countries around the world during the war. Ukranian armed forces have also captured a huge count of Russian weapon systems and munitions during the war.
> 
> Let us focus on Ukranian artillery forces for now. Ukraine have received over a million rounds by now and the list of suppliers have expanded in time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Has Received Over A Million Artillery Rounds From The U.S.
> 
> 
> Ukraine's fight against Russia has gobbled up an incredible amount of artillery rounds, with over a million provided by the U.S. alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukranian artillery forces also have qualitative edge over Russian artillery forces in the present:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Western Weapons, Ukraine Is Turning the Tables in an Artillery War
> 
> 
> In the southern Kherson region, Ukraine now has the advantage in range and precision guidance of artillery, rockets and drones, erasing what had been a critical Russian asset.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Global gas supply crunch is sorted out by now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> ‘Major push’ for gas amid Ukraine war accelerating climate breakdown
> 
> 
> Experts say world has ‘overreached’ in replacing Russian supply, which could kill 1.5C target
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surprise...
> 
> Ukraine have its own arrangements:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine seals gas supply deal with US for winter - Interfax quotes PM
> 
> 
> Ukraine has reached an agreement with the United States on the supply of 2 billion cubic metres of natural gas over the fourth quarter of 2022 and the first three months of 2023, Interfax news agency quoted the prime minister as saying on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have fallen for older concerns and headlines. You need to *CATCH UP* with latest trends.
> 
> 
> Let us put it in this way: NATO have much better battlefield performances and achievements to show than both Russia and Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Air Force Is Very Effective In Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky's office calls for strikes on Iran
> 
> 
> Every one agree they must bomb Iran, and destroy Iran infrastructure and facilities and want Iran gone. but also every one also agree that they themselves don't do it and don't want to be part of it , but its the others that must do it. Wonder Why?
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you keeping repeating your narrative like a broken record. Point of a debate is to learn from others.
> 
> Have you?
> 
> You were proven wrong in this thread before. And this is becoming a routine now.


Your very patient to supply so many links. I am curious to see his response.

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## LeGenD

ZeGerman said:


> Your very patient to supply so many links. I am curious to see his response.


He will laugh as usual. He does not learn.

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## Oublious

lol what happened to the over hyped Persian drones? Russia is still losing the war...

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## Shawnee

Oublious said:


> lol what happened to the over hyped Persian drones? Russia is still losing the war...



Everyone knows its efficiency. They brought Ukraine to zero. No power, no factory, no water, nothing
Air defenses of 10 countries did not help.

Not that I am happy about Ukrainian people being in zero land.

22 countries in line to buy Shahed. Iran drone production lines working at max speed.

Ukraine says Western countries offered Iran a deal that Iran cannot reject to avoid transfer of ballistic missiles.

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## The SC




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## Shawnee

Where is the Turkish TB2 by the way?
Never seen in this war for months.
Zelensky called them Turkish drones and ineffective.









Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones not effective in war with Russia: Zelensky - Defence View


In a recent interview, Ukraine president Zelensky said that Turkish attack drones "Bayraktar" do not play a decisive role in the war with Russia.




www.defenceview.in







Oublious said:


> lol what happened to the over hyped Persian drones? Russia is still losing the war...

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## Oublious

Shawnee said:


> Everyone knows its efficiency. They brought Ukraine to zero. No power, no factory, no water, nothing
> Air defenses of 10 countries did not help.
> 
> Not that I am happy about Ukrainian people being in zero land.
> 
> 22 countries in line to buy Shahed. Iran drone production lines working at max speed.
> 
> Ukraine says Western countries offered Iran a deal that Iran cannot reject to avoid transfer of ballistic missiles.




lol

losing the war but destroyed civiel infrastructures yess.. 😆



Shawnee said:


> Where is the Turkish TB2 by the way?
> Never seen in this war for months.
> Zelensky called them Turkish drones and ineffective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones not effective in war with Russia: Zelensky - Defence View
> 
> 
> In a recent interview, Ukraine president Zelensky said that Turkish attack drones "Bayraktar" do not play a decisive role in the war with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenceview.in




TB2 are flying and hunting down, Turkish goverment have asked not to share footages because of Russian reaction. But be shure they are hunting and working well...


----------



## Shawnee

Oublious said:


> lol
> 
> losing the war but destroyed civiel infrastructures yess.. 😆
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TB2 are flying and hunting down, Turkish goverment have asked not to share footages because of Russian reaction. But be shure they are hunting and working well...



Iranian drones did their job. The rest needs infantry.

Even Zelensky calls TB2 inefficient and Shahed efficient.

Source:









Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones not effective in war with Russia: Zelensky - Defence View


In a recent interview, Ukraine president Zelensky said that Turkish attack drones "Bayraktar" do not play a decisive role in the war with Russia.




www.defenceview.in













Zelensky pledges to “clip the wings” of Russia’s air power amid drone bombardment


Russia has carried out nearly 4,500 missile strikes and over 8,000 air raids since February, the president said in his nighttime address




www.standard.co.uk





Ukrainian president Zelensky said that Turkish attack drones “Bayraktar TB2” do not play a decisive role in the war with Russia.

No TB2 footage captured in any camera by Russians or ordinary Ukrainians


----------



## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> My view is that this is only going to persist. Ukraine is now half dead only being propped up by th3 West. And moving back to the other side of the dnipro makes more sense, i believe Russia can solidify their current holdings better now.
> 
> Russia should cut off the bridges on the Dnipro and then they can easily conquer half of Ukraine


Okay, so will Russians first go to Afghanistan to re-claim it since they never got defeated there? I am not sure where this view comes from other than a lot of smoking the good stuff. They lost more soldiers , suffered more casualties, lost more assets than the Afghanistan invasion they withdrew (not defeated apparently) and still haven't gone back. Its been so long that another power went in with the same result.

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## Oublious

Shawnee said:


> Iranian drones did their job. The rest needs infantry.
> 
> I see no TB2. Don’t make stuff up.
> Even Zelensky calls TB2 inefficient and Shahed efficient.
> 
> Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones not effective in war with Russia: Zelensky - Defence View
> 
> 
> In a recent interview, Ukraine president Zelensky said that Turkish attack drones "Bayraktar" do not play a decisive role in the war with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenceview.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky pledges to “clip the wings” of Russia’s air power amid drone bombardment
> 
> 
> Russia has carried out nearly 4,500 missile strikes and over 8,000 air raids since February, the president said in his nighttime address
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.standard.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian president Zelensky said that Turkish attack drones “Bayraktar TB2” do not play a decisive role in the war with Russia.
> 
> No TB2 captured in any camera by Russians or ordinary Ukrainians




according to a indian site, thats why Ukraine is asking to open a Baykar facilities. Wasted of money that kamikaze drone. How shameless you can be asking in return of this crap drone SU-35.

But what makes Persians happy is ok to me... 😆


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

The Russians keep finding more and more potent Copium. 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591529223763673091

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Agreed. But we can supply clandestinely, Iranian drones using Chinese engines are a good example. We should make sure the war in Ukraine is prolonged to drain the Europeans and Americans. Technically a war in Ukraine is beneficial to China.
> 
> The Americans were already dangling Siberia as a reward if we join the sanctions. Historically, those lands belong to us. But then the Anglos had been good with divide and conquer. So the best policy is support Russia economically and clandestinely supply components.
> 
> If we join the sanctions, Russia is gone, their territories would be divid3d. But then we will be next...


China's economic engine is at stake. 3% GDP growth, slowest in Asia, and slowest in decades. China is not going to risk its economic future for the sake of you postulating that somehow Russia is more important



Han Patriot said:


> Without the NATo arms supplies, Ukraine would have been gone. Putin underestimated Bidens wokeness. However irratating Trump was, he would have asked NATo to sign a treaty against expansion into Ukraine. All of this happened because of the greedy West, Ukraine is a large piece of bacon.
> 
> My bet is Russia can now concentrate attacking the East. China is the kingmaker here, that's why Biden wants to meet uncle Xi.


Wokeness? Like Xi's wokeness to help the Chinese population at expense of the rich and the mean time reduce China's growth by 2%. Its called strategic goal (in case of Biden to neuter Putin and Russia so it won't ever interfere. These elections went without interference and Putin got what he deserved).

Don't use wokeness to hide somebody's true ability to kick some serious *** without putting his own troops on the ground

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## Shawnee

Oublious said:


> according to a indian site, thats why Ukraine is asking to open a Baykar facilities. Wasted of money that kamikaze drone. How shameless you can be asking in return of this crap drone SU-35.
> 
> But what makes Persians happy is ok to me... 😆



*US top general McKenzie on Iranian drones:*

“for the first time since the Korean War, we are operating without complete air superiority.”
“Very effective drones”
“Looking into anyway possible to stop Iranian drones”









 CENTCOM commander warns about Iranian drone threat


'For the first time since the Korean War, we are operating without complete air superiority,' warned CENTCOM Commander Gen. Kenneth McKenzie




jewishinsider.com






Now TB2:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517959804370759680
Zelensky on TB2:
“With all due respect, those or other drones can help, but do not affect the result. Because there is a history of missiles, artillery, air defense"


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## khansaheeb

Do you thin


jhungary said:


> Another reason is that EU cannot and will not deal with Ukrainian Refugee and Energy Crisis 2.0. The only way they can do that is to have a stablised Eastern front, and the only way that can do that is to accept Ukrainian NATO membership. What Ukraine need to do is to degenerate Russia to a point that it will take them a long time to recover and hence cannot threaten the stability around Europe, because rest assure, even if Ukraine joined NATO, Russia is not just going to stop there, there are still a few non-NATO member in Europe Russia can bully. And they will if Ukraine joined NATO. Only if Russia conventional capability being decayed to a point that it cannot used to threaten other country, would NATO consider Ukraine membership.


Do you think China and India will allow that, to let the Europeans become the undisputed Champions? I doubt it very much. The world has entered the third world war but don't know it yet.


----------



## aviator_fan

RescueRanger said:


> So where are the usual PDF Pro Russia, Putin Roadie's now?


They are busy joining the next surge of 240K troops that is going to come next summer. Given that 200K men have left, every pro-Putin PDF member will be needed to contribute to that.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> Bogus stories you tell to just feel better- Russia still has technologies US doesnt have- one example? HGV - US has not deployed any HGV in its military- its behind - stop gassing people here with lies pls. Russia still has missile, sub, warfare technology that US doesnt have equivalents of.
> 
> While US is probably ahead of Russia in military tech, i can agree with that because its reasonable, but to say its 50 years behind when US also buys space rocket engines from Russia still, that tells me thats an exaggeration.
> 
> 
> The chance that this winter will be "manageable" or "ok" for Ukrainian military, IMO, is quite low. Ukraine is low on trooops, ammunition, fuel, etc- alot of things - if and when Russia makes a big push soon, Ukraine probably wont be able to hold all territory it has now- time is not on Ukraine's side, which means as time passes, Ukraine is at more disadvantage, period, Russia wont let Ukraine go so easily without getting something that secures it more in the future.


So what sort of a war would this be useful for? Is there a perfect war US should manufacture so Russia's military might may be brought to bear. They could not even have integrated air and forward air controller communications to bring air power to bear in real-time and you have some fictitious image of some data you have seen. May be next NATO and Biden are woke again (quoting another person) they can be kind enough to PUtin to create a theater of operations where Russia's superiority can shine.

US had big useless fighter bombers (F-105s, F-4s) in Vietnam and knows what its like to bring useless weapons to the wrong war.


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## zartosht

Couple of things to take into consideration:

Ukraine launched repeated attack after attack. That got stuffed and slaughtered to the last man. They were banging their heads agains anvils. They took nothing

Russia withdrew in good order. Which is a complicated operation that involves setting up multiple blocking lines. This is further confirmed by the fact the ukies were extremely cautious and very scares of a trap going in. 

The new Russian general has made his intentions clear. There is going to be a decisive military result to this. And no more fukkin around. Destroy ukie vital infastracture
And assemble a massive army for a tradtional all out comventional attack to absolutely crush ukraine. 

There was an internal Russian debate regarding kherson by all accounts. Sorouvikin and the Russian professional officers all wanted to leave a poor strategic situation. While politicians like shoigu wanted to hold it for political. Reasons. 

Knowing this did Russia make the right decision? If in 6 months a 800k Russian army smashes ukie lines amd breaks them. People gonna remember this?

I think Russia made the right choice. Regardless of the fact that twitter clowns can circle jerk for a little bit

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## aviator_fan

Shawnee said:


> Beating a nuclear state is meaningless. Weakening sure.
> 
> Iran has the capacity of zeroing most of the world energy in a very short time
> 
> Hence:
> Spiking inflation
> Stagflation
> Recession
> Collapsing retirement funds
> Changing presidential elections
> 
> 
> Add to that
> Zeroing Israeli infrastructures
> And more


Seriously you must be the most delusional person on this forum. Your fellow Iranian cheerer has disappeared.

Somehow the mullahs sitting in Tehran that have proven their warfare ability by shooting teenagers (and their avenging the death of a top general was to cause shell shock to US forces at a base in Iraq) somehow are causing all the above?

Let me highlight a few things on the limitations of your bearded leaders:
1. Inflation is up because 0% interest rates as determined by Fed
2. Retirement funds are going down in value because interest rates are gravitating to normal and thats causing stock market to be not attractive
3. And there is no collapse: they are down to the value they were 18 months ago. Hardly a collapse
4. Fed, to really rub it in is the US Fed, not the revolutionary guard Fed. They determine interest rates
This is how capitalism works. Its not the Revolutionary Guard business empire where money only accumulates through corruption.

As for Israelis: when Iran does something of consequence to Israel, I will come back and eat my words. Instead its worthlessness is exchibted every day as Hamas gets its butt kicked, and Israeli Air Force flies all over Syria (Iran's ally) as if they own the place like they do Golan.

In the mean time I realized the excessive waste going on in a Scandanivaian country on a recent visit: people still heating gas lamps and sitting outside as if its 2018 cheap energy. Thats how much NOT of an effect Iran is having



Shawnee said:


> *US top general McKenzie on Iranian drones:*
> 
> “for the first time since the Korean War, we are operating without complete air superiority.”
> “Very effective drones”
> “Looking into anyway possible to stop Iranian drones”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CENTCOM commander warns about Iranian drone threat
> 
> 
> 'For the first time since the Korean War, we are operating without complete air superiority,' warned CENTCOM Commander Gen. Kenneth McKenzie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now TB2:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517959804370759680
> Zelensky on TB2:
> “With all due respect, those or other drones can help, but do not affect the result. Because there is a history of missiles, artillery, air defense"


US has a history of amplifying its adversary threat (the entire Defence industry funds think tanks to this effect) to get Congress to give it more money. 20 years ago they played up how bad the F-15 was compared to the SU30 in an exercise where they set the rules so F-15 was sure to lose (they left that out) . All a ploy to get money to get more F-22s.

So this is a known pattern by US generals and conservative think tanks.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian missiles are very inaccurate and their ISR and targeting are even worse


Im talking about the destruction a missile causes , I have seen unguided scuds causing more damage and destruction while Russians hypersonic missiles couldn't even take a single whole building down

Russia has nothing to lose in this war, the only one losing is Ukraine . It would take several decades to rebuild Ukraine not the forget the loan . Ukraine Zionist president already handed over 12bn$ worth of gold reserved to USA .

Russia is fighting 40+ countries all alone with little help from Iran . Russia may move back and will move forward in the future at faster pace they are learning well about the modern warfare and that their obsolete USSR weapons have no place in modern wars , no wonder they didn't have a drone programme as like many other countries now they will build one they will go back build modern weapons and learn from it's mistakes

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## Shawnee

aviator_fan said:


> Seriously you must be the most delusional person on this forum. Your fellow Iranian cheerer has disappeared.
> 
> Somehow the mullahs sitting in Tehran that have proven their warfare ability by shooting teenagers (and their avenging the death of a top general was to cause shell shock to US forces at a base in Iraq) somehow are causing all the above?
> 
> Let me highlight a few things on the limitations of your bearded leaders:
> 1. Inflation is up because 0% interest rates as determined by Fed
> 2. Retirement funds are going down in value because interest rates are gravitating to normal and thats causing stock market to be not attractive
> 3. And there is no collapse: they are down to the value they were 18 months ago. Hardly a collapse
> 4. Fed, to really rub it in is the US Fed, not the revolutionary guard Fed. They determine interest rates
> This is how capitalism works. Its not the Revolutionary Guard business empire where money only accumulates through corruption.
> 
> As for Israelis: when Iran does something of consequence to Israel, I will come back and eat my words. Instead its worthlessness is exchibted every day as Hamas gets its butt kicked, and Israeli Air Force flies all over Syria (Iran's ally) as if they own the place like they do Golan.
> 
> In the mean time I realized the excessive waste going on in a Scandanivaian country on a recent visit: people still heating gas lamps and sitting outside as if its 2018 cheap energy. Thats how much NOT of an effect Iran is having
> 
> 
> US has a history of amplifying its adversary threat (the entire Defence industry funds think tanks to this effect) to get Congress to give it more money. 20 years ago they played up how bad the F-15 was compared to the SU30 in an exercise where they set the rules so F-15 was sure to lose (they left that out) . All a ploy to get money to get more F-22s.
> 
> So this is a known pattern by US generals and conservative think tanks.



A picture is better than a thousand words:


----------



## Oublious

Shawnee said:


> *US top general McKenzie on Iranian drones:*
> 
> “for the first time since the Korean War, we are operating without complete air superiority.”
> “Very effective drones”
> “Looking into anyway possible to stop Iranian drones”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CENTCOM commander warns about Iranian drone threat
> 
> 
> 'For the first time since the Korean War, we are operating without complete air superiority,' warned CENTCOM Commander Gen. Kenneth McKenzie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now TB2:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517959804370759680
> Zelensky on TB2:
> “With all due respect, those or other drones can help, but do not affect the result. Because there is a history of missiles, artillery, air defense"



that kind generals are always talking, and it does not change the fact that iranian kamikaze drone is a waste of money.

Zelensky talks geo politic because of Turkish demand not to share videos. Don't forget Ukrainans made a music video and asking to open Baykar facility in Ukrain to develop with Baykar drones.









Turkey's Baykar to complete plant in Ukraine in two years -CEO


Turkish defence company Baykar is planning to complete the construction of its manufacturing plant in Ukraine in two years, its chief executive said on Thursday, after the company became highly renowned for their drones' success in thwarting Russian forces.




www.reuters.com


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Do you thin
> 
> Do you China and India will allow that, to let the Europeans become the undisputed Champions? I doubt it very much. The world has entered the third world war but don't know it yet.


That's where you were wrong.

This, by this I mean NATO, is not in the business to become the undisputed Champions. NATO is a defense organisation, what they care about is the security in the region. NATO is "POWERLESS" unless someone invaded one of the NATO members. People see NATO as powerful because of individual member's power. Namely US, UK, Germany and France. But if you have to talk about NATO as a whole. NATO have a lot of smaller members and in some case that have nothing at all, like North Macedonia, Luxemburg and Iceland. Which these countries have nothing at all yet they are "Powerful" in a traditional deterrence sense because they have equal share in NATO. But collectvely, NATO is NOT powerful, the individual country is.

The world, on the other hand, spitted up between three parts. the US, the EU and China, these are the 3 biggest economies on earth. And whoever have the more share of the pie is the undisputed Champion. And for that, US and EU already are, because US and EU interest aligned, and they represent 2/3 of the world trade. Which mean as long as US and EU remain an ally, the world will be led by the US and EU collectively, and that's undisputed. On the other hand, India and China is at the same spectrum, whether or not China and India will cooperate is one issue, whether or not that cooperation can break the US-EU Dominance is another. Because if the first does not met at this phase, then China rise will dwarf Indian power, and vice versa. And if the first hold, then the second equation come into play, would an alliance of China and India break the US-EU cycle? I can't see into the future, but at this point, NO.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Executed Russian prisoners ?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591548674018250752


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591486606812516352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591493036428722183

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591561834246860801

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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Executed Russian prisoners ?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591548674018250752



No. Well, I don't know, depends on circumstance.

If this is an execution, they wouldn't be line up so neatly. When you are shot standing up, especially you are not tied down (as they were not ties) you cannot control your fall when you died, because, well, you are dead already... So, your body would be positioned differently than other because the pose would have been random. As none of these soldiers can choose how they fall when they died.

Like this



Spoiler: graphic













Spoiler: graphic











See how the position of each body is different than the others?

And in this clip, 5 Russian body die head to toe in the same way, unless you really that lucky and they all felt the same way, or they were posed, but then you know it is not posted because the blood on the floor matches the wound. Which mean these body lies as it is. That's how it was deposited when they died.

So what kill these men? First of all, they all "Forced" into the same position would mean they were killed by a force traumatic enough to move the body of a few men which I guess weight about hundred kilogram each, that suggested explosion because bullet can't do that. Then you can see they are all lay in a circular direction with the same pattern of debris radiated along the floor, you would know it most likely an Artillery/mortar strike that kill these men.

Now if they were unarmed and hit by an artillery/mortar strike, and they are just shooting mortar round at them for fun, that could be a war crime, but it can also just be the soldiers had already cleaned up the scene and collected their weapon. So I don't know.

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## Shawnee

Oublious said:


> that kind generals are always talking, and it does not change the fact that iranian kamikaze drone is a waste of money.
> 
> Zelensky talks geo politic because of Turkish demand not to share videos. Don't forget Ukrainans made a music video and asking to open Baykar facility in Ukrain to develop with Baykar drones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey's Baykar to complete plant in Ukraine in two years -CEO
> 
> 
> Turkish defence company Baykar is planning to complete the construction of its manufacturing plant in Ukraine in two years, its chief executive said on Thursday, after the company became highly renowned for their drones' success in thwarting Russian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



US generals, Centcom generals, Israeli generals, thinks tanks are all aware of effector Iranian drones.

Iranian Drones Are Changing the Battlefields of Eurasia​




__





Loading…






jamestown.org





West keeps sending message to stop more shipments and is offering good deals to Iran.
Is it for a drone that is waste of money? No
—-
After Ukrainians found out TB2 is a hype, they stopped making songs and abandoned the TB2 line.

Yet we do not even have an amateur video of TB2. They were all captured or dismantled.

TB2 Never seen in the skies by ordinary people. Zero evidence of TB2 existence
While
Iranian drones roam the skies

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## Ahmadbhutta01

jhungary said:


> No. Well, I don't know, depends on circumstance.
> 
> If this is an execution, they wouldn't be line up so neatly. When you are shot standing up, especially you are not tied down (as they were not ties) you cannot control your fall when you died, because, well, you are dead already... So, your body would be positioned differently than other because the pose would have been random. As none of these soldiers can choose how they fall when they died.
> 
> Like this
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 896103
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 896108
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how the position of each body is different than the others?
> 
> And in this clip, 5 Russian body die head to toe in the same way, unless you really that lucky and they all felt the same way, or they were posed, but then you know it is not posted because the blood on the floor matches the wound. Which mean these body lies as it is. That's how it was deposited when they died.
> 
> So what kill these men? First of all, they all "Forced" into the same position would mean they were killed by a force traumatic enough to move the body of a few men which I guess weight about hundred kilogram each, that suggested explosion because bullet can't do that. Then you can see they are all lay in a circular direction with the same pattern of debris radiated along the floor, you would know it most likely an Artillery/mortar strike that kill these men.
> 
> Now if they were unarmed and hit by an artillery/mortar strike, and they are just shooting mortar round at them for fun, that could be a war crime, but it can also just be the soldiers had already cleaned up the scene and collected their weapon. So I don't know.


Even a blind can tell it's execution



Shawnee said:


> US generals, Centcom generals, Israeli generals, thinks tanks are all aware of effector Iranian drones.
> 
> Iranian Drones Are Changing the Battlefields of Eurasia​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jamestown.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> West keeps sending message to stop more shipments and is offering good deals to Iran.
> Is it for a drone that is waste of money? No
> —-
> After Ukrainians found out TB2 is a hype, they stopped making songs and abandoned the TB2 line.
> 
> Yet we do not even have an amateur video of TB2. They were all captured or dismantled.
> 
> TB2 Never seen in the skies by ordinary people. Zero evidence of existence
> While
> Iranian drones roam the skies


Iranian suicide drones are good but not game changer ofcourse , they are cheap to build


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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Even a blind can tell it's execution


I have seen actual execution, have you? And I had been a detective for over 7 years (well, sort of...) a police for over 15 and then a soldier for 7 years prior to that. I think I have seen enough dead body to know if someone died and how they died

Other than "Even a blind can tell it's an execution" can you come up with any explanation to explain or rebutt what I said??

Or should I just take your words for it, and forego my 15 years + (Police + Military) experience, because you simply say so??

Tell me, what tell you these men were executed from the body and their position?? Can you comment on their wounds?


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## Ahmadbhutta01

All those people are fooled into thinking that Ukraine is winning , it's Nato vs Russia , no country in history has recieved as much weapons,funds manpower and Intelligence as Ukraine did , Ukrainians are doing their only pressing buttons , nato satellites are locating Russian targets and locking it the Ukrainian only press the buttons there are more than 100 satellite working for Ukraine . Russia should return build it's economy and modernise it's armaments then talk of war it can't beat 40plus countries alone 
Even the Ukrainian forces are now more and more appewr to be foreign fighters most probably nato soldiers which they calling volunteers


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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> no country in history has recieved as much weapons,funds manpower and Intelligence as Ukraine did ,


Afghan National Army and Iraqi Army wanted to remind you that they had existed.

And if you compare this to Afghan Army and OIF?? Ukraine would have been flying Blackhawk and driving Abrams by now.

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Seriously, what do you think Russia "Can" do??
> 
> You can't start a war with NATO, you start using nuke, everybody dies, you are not economically big enough to threaten NATO and Ukraine. The only thing Russia can do, and probably already had done, is to warm up to China and become their vassal, on the other hand, would China want this particular hot mess when the Chinese themselves have Taiwan in their mind??
> 
> 
> 
> That equipment is NOT going back to NATO, NATO will not come back and ask for everything back after this war. Those stuff stays in Ukraine.
> 
> The problem of those equipment is big, not the biggest concern, Ukraine is using NATO playbook to fight Russia, *everything from fieldcraft to tactics down to intelligence operation are adopted by the Ukrainian, otherwise we can't feed them intel and they can't use it even if we do*. THAT, is the serious problem, because I know how NATO work, but if I do tell you how NATO fight war, or how US fight war, then I will have 20 years waiting for me back in Leavenworth, Kansas. If you know what I know completely, you can plan how to fight NATO off, because you know how NATO operate, then in any wargame you don't just guess what would NATO do, but you will know EXACTLY what would NATO do, and that's the problem.
> 
> Step back a bit, do you know why Ukraine is very successful on resisting invasion and capturing Russian land in counter attack? That's because they know what Russian will do, they were trained with Russian doctrine until at least 2014. Unless Russia had written the entire doctrine from scratch since 2014, that playbook, the one that Ukraine know, will be used against Ukraine, and Ukraine would know how NATO could counter those doctrine, because they know both sides. And to a lesser extend how China would react because Chinese Doctrine build on Russian/Soviet Doctrine. Which mean not only Ukraine is a really valued partner but also a serious liability if it changes side.
> 
> 
> 
> How does it worry them when they are already fighting now?? You only threaten to fight you before you actually fight, that threat is gone once you are already in a war. You don't swing around the fence and think maybe they will do this or maybe they will do that. You know they will attack, and that would already been calculated by NATO before any membership. I am not saying NATO will most definitely allow Ukraine membership.
> 
> You know they will go to war, because there WAS a war already, and if you allow Ukraine to join, then you consider that thread is being outweighed by security concern, I mean it's probably 9 months too late to care about what Russia think.....
> 
> 
> Ukraine already made that move, and they have applied for NATO membership again, that would be considered most likely after Finland and Sweden's membership which is going to be a year, so I will say in 3 or 4 years, there will be a result on NATO decision.
> 
> I already said my point toward Ukrainian NATO membership, that is up to NATO and Ukraine to decide, not me and you and Russia, so why talking about something when it does not concern you??


Europe has weakened so much that even UK won't support UK Israel Embassy move to Jerusalem, for now. Truly astonishing indeed. Russia has a few options, continue the fight for Eastern Ukraine and suffer more losses, buy time to fight a counter offensive another time or sue for peace with nuclear blackmail. World doesn't have an appetite for nuclear war and highly unlikely US or anyone else would sacrifice themselves for Ukraine. Meanwhile the Russians will ramp up defense manufacturing to fight another day. Russia will pay a heavy price for this defeat in Ukraine unless it has some other surprise in store. Wily Putin will be elevated to another status by the Russian people and spinned up man who stood up to the imperialist's Nazis. The only issue is that the de-Nazification of Ukraine has in fact emboldened and consolidated more Nazis.



Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> All those people are fooled into thinking that Ukraine is winning , it's Nato vs Russia , no country in history has recieved as much weapons,funds manpower and Intelligence as Ukraine did , Ukrainians are doing their only pressing buttons , nato satellites are locating Russian targets and locking it the Ukrainian only press the buttons there are more than 100 satellite working for Ukraine . Russia should return build it's economy and modernise it's armaments then talk of war it can't beat 40plus countries alone
> Even the Ukrainian forces are now more and more appewr to be foreign fighters most probably nato soldiers which they calling volunteers


We don't even know if the Ukrainians are pressing the buttons.


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## JackTheRipper

is it true?


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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Europe has weakened so much that even UK won't support UK Israel Embassy move to Jerusalem, for now. Truly astonishing indeed. Russia has a few options, continue the fight for Eastern Ukraine and suffer more losses, buy time to fight a counter offensive another time or sue for peace with nuclear blackmail. World doesn't have an appetite for nuclear war and highly unlikely US or anyone else would sacrifice themselves for Ukraine. Meanwhile the Russians will ramp up defense manufacturing to fight another day. Russia will pay a heavy price for this defeat in Ukraine unless it has some other surprise in store. Wily Putin will be elevated to another status by the Russian people and spinned up man who stood up to the imperialist's Nazis. The only issue is that the de-Nazification of Ukraine has in fact emboldened and consolidated more Nazis.


Thing is, as I said many time to you and someone else. West could not ever give in to Nuclear Blackmail. That's the base line of what and why organisation like NATO exist in the first place. It's like sure, come attack us, we won't do shit even if Poland or Estonia invoke Article 5. Then what's the point for NATO at all?? 

There will not be nuclear blackmail, because the nuclear threat of Russia can be negated by the nuclear threat form the US. You keep asking would US or the West do something, but have you ever ask would Russia do something if the west use tac nuke?? 

The war is all but over for Russia, it wouldn't do much for any sabre rattling and nuclear blackmailing, because if it works, it can applies to NATO sending Arms to Ukraine, I mean they did blackmail the west that this is the redline and threatens to attack NATO asset carrying those arm, did NATO stop supplying arms?? And had Russia fulfilled their promise??

On the other hand, if Russia pull out now, Russia can slowly rearm and re-equip, but then so did Ukraine. And Ukraine would still enjoy western backing for the foreseeable future. On the other hand, it will take times for Russia to recover to the previous level, and more importantly, *PREVIOUS LEVEL AIN'T ENOUGH *to conquer Ukraine, that's how they were defeated in the first place. Which mean they would have to be over the previous level in order for them to start to do something, and god knows how long this is going to take...



JackTheRipper said:


> is it true?


What do you mean is it true?

Did Zelenskyy made that address? Or did Ukraine liberate Kherson??


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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> I have seen actual execution, have you? And I had been a detective for over 7 years (well, sort of...) a police for over 15 and then a soldier for 7 years prior to that. I think I have seen enough dead body to know if someone died and how they died
> 
> Other than "Even a blind can tell it's an execution" can you come up with any explanation to explain or rebutt what I said??
> 
> Or should I just take your words for it, and forego my 15 years + (Police + Military) experience, because you simply say so??
> 
> Tell me, what tell you these men were executed from the body and their position?? Can you comment on their wounds?



The off-topic question is, what's the most gruesome death you say from your combined civilian and military service? [Details, please].


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

jhungary said:


> Afghan National Army and Iraqi Army wanted to remind you that they had existed.
> 
> And if you compare this to Afghan Army and OIF?? Ukraine would have been flying Blackhawk and driving Abrams by now.


Afghan army didn't recieve 45bn$ in 6 months , and all those weapons were under nato forces afghans were only allowed to fly trainer jets or Russian copters, 
Usa played smart here usa depleted all the European countries of their existing Russian weaponry now what choice Europe has other than buying American weapons ? Tens of countries ordered himmars , half of Europe will buy f35 so usa is the main beneficiary.
Usa economy is war economy they feed on wars if this one is over they will need another one perhaps taiwas vs china or may be India vs Pakistan . Usa can't live without wars 
President trump wws the only president who opposed war and even spoke against generals and pentagon 
He said our generals wants war to benefit weapon industry and I'm tired of these endless wars let's build america again


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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> The off-topic question is, what's the most gruesome death you say from your combined civilian and military service? [Details, please].


First of all, murder victim is NEVER gruesome. Sure, there are some frenzy killers out there that "work" for people to remind them his/her job, but that is only a small percentage of killers in the world, and I have not met any. Most murder or manslaughter victim are clean, people kill people because they kill people. 

Most gruesome death had to be either in an accident or in a warzone. I have seen the aftermath of an artillery strike which probably the most gruesome way to go, where people have their hands and leg blown off and their lower body blown off and have their guts and intestine hanging out. Or people losing half a head and you can see the cross section of a human head like you would when you are studying Biology in college, only back then they give you a model, and in a warzone, you see that for real. 

In civilian life, traffic accident probably worse than anything else. Most of the time it's not the physical situation that get to you, it's almost always the emotional aspect. I mean, I would much rather see a person who died got jammed in a car wreck with blood dripping on his face and eyeball popped out (which they do when they are killed by a trauma to the head, than watching and investigating a 12-year-old girl near pristine strangled body got place in a pedestal, which unfortunately, I have seen both.

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> That's where you were wrong.
> 
> This, by this I mean NATO, is not in the business to become the undisputed Champions. NATO is a defense organisation, what they care about is the security in the region. NATO is "POWERLESS" unless someone invaded one of the NATO members. People see NATO as powerful because of individual member's power. Namely US, UK, Germany and France. But if you have to talk about NATO as a whole. NATO have a lot of smaller members and in some case that have nothing at all, like North Macedonia, Luxemburg and Iceland. Which these countries have nothing at all yet they are "Powerful" in a traditional deterrence sense because they have equal share in NATO. But collectvely, NATO is NOT powerful, the individual country is.
> 
> The world, on the other hand, spitted up between three parts. the US, the EU and China, these are the 3 biggest economies on earth. And whoever have the more share of the pie is the undisputed Champion. And for that, US and EU already are, because US and EU interest aligned, and they represent 2/3 of the world trade. Which mean as long as US and EU remain an ally, the world will be led by the US and EU collectively, and that's undisputed. On the other hand, India and China is at the same spectrum, whether or not China and India will cooperate is one issue, whether or not that cooperation can break the US-EU Dominance is another. Because if the first does not met at this phase, then China rise will dwarf Indian power, and vice versa. And if the first hold, then the second equation come into play, would an alliance of China and India break the US-EU cycle? I can't see into the future, but at this point, NO.





CountryWonLostDrawCommentAfghanistan600GoldUSA530Awaiting result in UkraineRussia522Awaiting result in Ukraine against USAUK320Awaiting result of probe, fights war by proxy.Vietnam21Disqualified, War abandoned


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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Afghan army didn't recieve 45bn$ in 6 months , and all those weapons were under nato forces afghans were only allowed to fly trainer jets or Russian copters,
> Usa played smart here usa depleted all the European countries of their existing Russian weaponry now what choice Europe has other than buying American weapons ? Tens of countries ordered himmars , half of Europe will buy f35 so usa is the main beneficiary.
> Usa economy is war economy they feed on wars if this one is over they will need another one perhaps taiwas vs china or may be India vs Pakistan . Usa can't live without wars
> President trump wws the only president who opposed war and even spoke against generals and pentagon
> He said our generals wants war to benefit weapon industry and I'm tired of these endless wars let's build america again


Afghan army receive 100 billion aid a year, that's 50b in 6 months and they don't all goes to tea and toilet seat.....otherwise how do you think we accumulated 2 trillion-dollar spending debt for the entire war??

If we are spending Ukrainian level on Afghanistan, we probably would never have left. By the way, at this point, the money we had spent in Ukraine is around 18.3 billions, the "BUDGET" is 40 billion for the passed on the last bill. Not all were spend, and there are still room to go. a couple of HIMARS and Couple thousand of Javelin or Stinger with a few Humvee, MAXPRO and M113 wouldn't come up with 45 billion price tag. You do know what 45 billion can buy, right? That's about 100 F-16.....,900 M1 Abrams worth of gear. I mean if you really believe US already spend 45 billion for Arms in Ukraine, then I have a giant overpriced clock to sell you....


----------



## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Thing is, as I said many time to you and someone else. West could not ever give in to Nuclear Blackmail. That's the base line of what and why organisation like NATO exist in the first place. It's like sure, come attack us, we won't do shit even if Poland or Estonia invoke Article 5. Then what's the point for NATO at all??
> 
> There will not be nuclear blackmail, because the nuclear threat of Russia can be negated by the nuclear threat form the US. You keep asking would US or the West do something, but have you ever ask would Russia do something if the west use tac nuke??
> 
> The war is all but over for Russia, it wouldn't do much for any sabre rattling and nuclear blackmailing, because if it works, it can applies to NATO sending Arms to Ukraine, I mean they did blackmail the west that this is the redline and threatens to attack NATO asset carrying those arm, did NATO stop supplying arms?? And had Russia fulfilled their promise??
> 
> On the other hand, if Russia pull out now, Russia can slowly rearm and re-equip, but then so did Ukraine. And Ukraine would still enjoy western backing for the foreseeable future. On the other hand, it will take times for Russia to recover to the previous level, and more importantly, *PREVIOUS LEVEL AIN'T ENOUGH *to conquer Ukraine, that's how they were defeated in the first place. Which mean they would have to be over the previous level in order for them to start to do something, and god knows how long this is going to take...
> 
> 
> What do you mean is it true?
> 
> Did Zelenskyy made that address? Or did Ukraine liberate Kherson??


You are assuming rationality but the war on Ukraine was irrational.


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> CountryWonLostDrawCommentAfghanistan600GoldUSA530Awaiting result in UkraineRussia522Awaiting result in Ukraine against USAUK320Awaiting result of probe, fights war by proxy.Vietnam21Disqualified, War abandoned


Then China probably 5000 to 0

Why? There are around 5000 war in China from both domestic threat and outside threat and China still exist regardless they win or lose.

Dude, you are pulling the last straw here, this is not an occupational war or an insurgency where US self-impose limit that got them "Defeated" in a sense. This is a conventional total war. And unless you are talking about what US/NATO would do after they conquered Russia or China or whatever, that's not the same.

Also, I believe Afghanistan is 4 to 2, Afghanistan was first conquered by Alexander the Great in 330BC and then back in the early 19th century by the Brits after second Anglo-Afghan War.



khansaheeb said:


> You are assuming rationality but the war on Ukraine was irrational.


So are you saying only Russia can be irrational??

Do I have to remind you the US is THE ONLY COUNTRY that ever used nuclear weapon??

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## khansaheeb

For the first time since the WW2 war could enter Russian territory as the Ukrainians gain momentum and head for the border, panic must be setting in Moscow :-









Ukraine Signals It Will Stay on the Offensive, Despite Talk of a Lull


Many analysts and diplomats have suggested there could be a pause in major combat, and even peace talks, over the winter, but after pushing the Russians out of Kherson, Ukraine has no desire to stop.




www.nytimes.com





Ukraine Signals It Will Stay on the Offensive, Despite Talk of a Lull​Many analysts and diplomats have suggested there could be a pause in major combat, and even peace talks, over the winter, but after pushing the Russians out of Kherson, Ukraine has no desire to stop.







Ukrainian soldiers in the village of Snihurivka, in southern Ukraine, on Thursday, the day after Russia formally announced it had retreated from villages along the Kherson front.Credit...Lynsey Addario for The New York Times





By Carlotta Gall
Nov. 12, 2022Updated 7:25 a.m. ET
As jubilant Ukrainian troops hoist their national flag over Kherson after a comprehensive Russian retreat, they give no sign of stopping their offensives for the winter, or allowing the war to settle into a stalemate.
In the east, Ukrainian forces continue to grind forward and have repelled repeated Russian efforts to seize towns like Bakhmut and Pavlivka, reportedly killing hundreds of Russian soldiers. In the south, they are striking deep behind Russian lines, hitting Moscow’s troops before they can settle and build defenses on the eastern bank of the Dnipro River, across from Kherson.
And there are growing hints from troops on the ground, and volunteers close to them, that the Ukrainians are preparing for a new land offensive between those two fronts, south through the Zaporizhzhia region toward Melitopol, challenging Russia’s hold on the entire southern area that it seized in the invasion that began in February.
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“The logic of war is not to pause and somehow continue to move forward,” said Senior Lt. Andriy Mikheichenko, a commander of an anti-tank unit defending the embattled town of Bakhmut, in the eastern Donbas region. “I think there will be counterattacks in other directions, so that the enemy does not have time to transfer reserves and block strikes.”

Image

Ukrainian forces have repeatedly repelled Russian efforts to seize towns like Bakhmut, in the eastern Donbas region.Credit...Finbarr O’Reilly for The New York Times





Many analysts and diplomats have talked about the war entering a period of stasis during the cold of winter, with both militaries needing to rebuild. Some leaders — most notably, Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, on Thursday — have suggested that a lull in fighting would be a good time for talks.


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But the government in Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, has been adamant that a stalemate would simply cement Russian gains, suggesting that, even if conditions force Ukraine to slow its offensives, it does not plan to stop them. There has been a chorus of conflicting predictions by military analysts and others, inside and outside Ukraine, about what to expect next, and Ukrainian soldiers often delight in the military command’s ability to obscure its intentions and keep everyone guessing.
The drawing of a new front line at the southern reaches of the Dnipro, with the two sides controlling opposite banks, will essentially bring a halt on the Kherson front, military analysts said. The river’s immense width and further damage to the main Antonivksy Bridge by departing Russian troops make it extremely difficult and risky for Ukrainian troops to try to pursue the retreating Russian forces across the water.
There was evidence that Ukraine was continuing to strike deep behind Russian lines, with reports of rocket strikes on Russian forces regrouping in several locations along the eastern bank, and of strikes in recent days on the southern cities of Melitopol and Henichesk, near the Black Sea coast, more than 40 miles from the front.
Editors’ Picks​Pulses to Their Brains and 2 Women’s Binge Eating Went Away​‘Black Panther: Wakanda Forever’ Review: Women on the Home Front​Today’s U.F.C. Star Doesn’t Care if You Think His Fights Are Boring​Continue reading the main story


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Ukrainian special forces and partisan forces will maintain a steady momentum of small-scale attacks behind Russian lines, said Justin Bronk, a senior research fellow in military sciences at the Royal United Services Institute, a defense analysis organization in London.

Image

A Ukrainian soldier received medical treatment last month at a clinic three miles from frontline fighting positions in Bakhmut.Credit...Finbarr O’Reilly for The New York Times


One camp of commentators, made up of former Western military servicemen who follow the war closely and cite friends among those fighting, is already predicting that Ukraine will make further gains in the south, as Russian morale and organization unravel.
“A good day, my friend. Now we move on to other maps and other battles!” a former member of the U.S. Navy SEALs, Chuck Pfarrer, tweeted on Friday as Ukrainian troops swept into Kherson. Speaking on Twitter Spaces this week with the Mriya Report, a popular pro-Ukraine organization, Mr. Pfarrer said he thought the city of Melitopol was the next target to watch and spoke confidently of Ukraine’s ability to press its advantage and recapture more territory in coming months.
Other analysts were more cautious. Mr. Bronk said he expected both sides to take an operational pause because of the difficulty of muddy, wet and cold conditions, and because the fighting in Kherson had been extremely debilitating.
He predicted that full-scale fighting would resume in the spring. Ukraine’s next targets, he said, would most likely be either in the direction of Melitopol in the south or in the east, continuing the offensive that routed Russian forces from the Kharkiv region, to recapture the town of Svatove in the Luhansk region, which has been the focus of fighting for the past month.

Image

Ukrainian citizens who had fled Russia-occupied territories in southern Ukraine reached a filtration point this month in Zaporizhzia, in southeastern Ukraine.Credit...Ivor Prickett for The New York Times





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But he doubted that Ukraine had the concentration of forces to mount a large-scale offensive action, which, according to military convention, usually demands that attackers far outnumber defenders.
“I would be surprised if they have the ammunition, fuel and equipment to do it,” he said, adding, “There have been massive casualties on the Kherson front.”
General Milley said on Thursday that Russia and Ukraine had each suffered more than 100,000 casualties — dead and wounded — in less than nine months of warfare. Neither side has published official casualty figures amid strict control of information.
The commander of a volunteer battalion in the Zaporizhzhia region confirmed that Ukrainian casualties were high. He said he knew of one unit that was losing 20 men a day in eastern Ukraine, and he estimated that his country was still losing 100 to 200 men a day overall, as it had been earlier in the year when President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine first mentioned that rate.
But soldiers on the front line do not foresee any letup.

Image

A Ukrainian soldier preparing to remove the body of a Russian soldier this month in Kupiansk-Vuzlovyi, in the Kharkiv region. Russia and Ukraine have each suffered more than 100,000 casualties since the start of the war.Credit...Finbarr O’Reilly for The New York Times





Bakhmut continues to be a drawn-out fight, according to soldiers headed back to the front. The 93rd Brigade, the unit that had defended the town since the summer, was given just over a week to rest and has since returned to the trenches.
As it planned its withdrawal of troops from Kherson, the Russian command tried to secure a victory in the east, throwing newly mobilized soldiers into battles at Svatove, in northeastern Ukraine, and in the Donetsk region, in attempts to seize Bakhmut and the village of Pavlivka.
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The anti-tank unit commander in Bakhmut, Lieutenant Mikheichenko, said the fight for the city might be the next definitive battle. “Who survives this race will win,” he said. “It’s a game of attrition. Maybe there will be a turning point here because they do not want to give in. Troops are being thrown in, and we are the same.”
“If we break their backs here, only one strong group will remain — Zaporizhzhia,” he said of the Russians. “It stands separately, where the fighting is of medium intensity. Not like in Bakhmut, but not like in the Kherson region, either. We know that there are quite a lot of them. And how this grouping will behave, and what we will do, is still unknown.”
As winter approaches, both sides are also facing ammunition shortfalls. Russia has turned to North Korea and Iran for artillery shells and missiles. The Ukrainian military, according to a person familiar with Ukrainian officials’ demands, wants to increase the number of shells they fire each day — around 3,000 — by several thousand.

Image

Ukrainian soldiers on Friday at a former Russian military base in the village of Blahodatne, in the Kherson region.Credit...Lynsey Addario for The New York Times





Despite Russia’s setbacks on the battlefield, the Russian military continues to wage an effective missile and drone campaign against Ukraine’s infrastructure, according to U.S. defense officials and military analysts, exposing gaps in a heavily strained Ukrainian air defense network.
One thing analysts agree on is that, whether or not there is a pause, the next stage will again be extremely brutal.
“The war will not stop in the coming winter,” Mick Ryan, a recently retired Australian Army major general, wrote in an article for ABC of Australia.
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“But it will be fought at a different tempo,” he added. “And it provides political and military leaders an opportunity to plan for what is likely to be a brutal and bloody year ahead.”
Thomas Gibbons-Neff and Marc Santora contributed reporting.


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## Ali_Baba

right now - video from Kremlin - exclusive…… 🤣😂🙈👍…..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591539522655117312

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> right now - video from Kremlin - exclusive…… 🤣😂🙈👍…..


Why o why I know this is going to be a "Downfall" parody before even clicking on the video...??

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591557930067038208

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## Reashot Xigwin

Seriously who gives a crap about dead Russians? Not even their country cares about them. 

This is a country that drop "soldiers" Into a war zone without any training.

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## khansaheeb

Russian Defense Ministry orders additional batch of hypersonic missiles, Russian media report


The Russian military has ordered an additional batch of several dozen of the latest Zircon hypersonic missiles, Russian propaganda news agency TASS reported on Nov. 12, citing their sources.




news.yahoo.com





Russian Defense Ministry orders additional batch of hypersonic missiles, Russian media report​

Sat, November 12, 2022 at 8:15 AM·1 min read










Vladimir Putin
President of Russia






Minister of Defense of Russia Serhiy Shoigu
The order should be completed in 2023, according to Russian media.
*Read also:* One Russian ship with Kalibr missiles deployed to Black Sea
The Russian Ministry of Defense has not officially confirmed this information.
Russian dictator Vladimir Putin stated in Nov. 2021 that tests of the hypersonic Zircon cruise missile were being completed in Russia, and it would be ready to use by Russian Navy in 2022.
Zircon is a two-stage rocket, the first stage of which is equipped with a solid-propellant rocket engine, and the second stage with a direct-flow air-jet engine. The flight range can be up to 600 kilometers.

*Read also:* Russia trying to get weapons from Iran, North Korea, China has not helped Kremlin, says Pentagon
Submarines and surface warships of the Russian fleet will be equipped with Zircon hypersonic missiles.
Read the original article on The New Voice of Ukraine









After "difficult decisions", Medvedev again threatens with an arsenal of weapons


Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation, has said that Russia has allegedly not yet used its "arsenal of weapons, equipment and munitions". Source: Medvedev on Telegram Quote from Medvedev: "Russia, for obvious reasons, has not yet used its entire...




news.yahoo.com





After "difficult decisions", Medvedev again threatens with an arsenal of weapons​




271







Dmitry Medvedev
Ukrainska Pravda
Sat, November 12, 2022 at 6:05 AM·1 min read








Dmitry Medvedev
Former president of the Russian Federation


Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation, has said that Russia has allegedly not yet used its "arsenal of weapons, equipment and munitions".
*Source:* Medvedev on Telegram
*Quote from Medvedev*: "Russia, for obvious reasons, has not yet used its entire arsenal of possible weapons, equipment and munitions.
And did not attack all possible enemy targets located in populated areas.
And not only from our inherent human kindness. Everything has its time".
*Details*: Medvedev also stated that Russia is supposedly shaping the future world order, but not "the United States with Britain and dark Kyiv."

He also complained that the Russian Federation is allegedly "fighting NATO alone", without mentioning, for example, military aid from Iran.
*Background: *

On 9 November, Sergei Surovikin, the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian occupying forces in Ukraine, announced that Russian troops were leaving the city of Kherson. At the same time, the President’s Office of Ukraine announced that Ukraine sees no signs of Russia retreating from Kherson without a fight.
On 11 November, Defence Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine reported that Kherson was returning under Ukraine’s control and the Armed Forces of Ukraine were entering the city. The Russian occupiers’ retreat routes are under the fire control of the Ukrainian army.
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy announced that the Special Operations Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are currently in Kherson, and other Ukrainian defenders are approaching the city.
*Journalists fight on their own frontline. Support Ukrainska Pravda or become our patron!*


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## serenity

Well seems like NAFO group here thinks Europe USA and Ukraine can simply welcome Ukraine into NATO and they will not consider what Russia would think of that.

We can only see how this actually plays out (they would be wrong) if the sides agree on ceasefire and then Ukraine attempts to join NATO and NATO welcomes it. That won't happen as much as NAFO here think it will.

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## thetutle

Shawnee said:


> Part of the offer. Iran could not resist the offer.


What is the point of this picture? I dont think anyone should support Ukraine because they supposedly have pretty women.


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## Shawnee

Ukraine says Iran has stopped transfer of ballistic missiles to Russia because of an offer that was difficult to reject.










День двести шестьдесят первый. Беседа с @Alexey Arestovych Алексей Арестович


#Фейгин #ФейгинLIVE #арестович День двести шестьдесят первый. Беседа с @Alexey Arestovych Алексей Арестович (Киев).https://feygin-live.customprint.market/uk...




www.youtube.com







thetutle said:


> What is the point of this picture? I dont think anyone should support Ukraine because they supposedly have pretty women.



Ukraine says Iran could not say No


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## thetutle

BHAN85 said:


> What's the cause? Diesel is harder to manufacture from non-crude oil sources (like oil shale).
> 
> Peak oil of normal crude oil was more than one decade ago.
> 
> Problems will increase.


Peak oil was supposed to be in 2008. Its all nonsense. 


925boy said:


> Bogus stories you tell to just feel better- Russia still has technologies US doesnt have- one example? HGV - US has not deployed any HGV in its military- its behind - stop gassing people here with lies pls. Russia still has missile, sub, warfare technology that US doesnt have equivalents of.


lol


925boy said:


> While US is probably ahead of Russia in military tech, i can agree with that because its reasonable, but to say its 50 years behind when US also buys space rocket engines from Russia still, that tells me thats an exaggeration.


nope, Russia is about 50 years behind. Look at the wepoany. Its obvious. 


Paul2 said:


> Their engineers indeed managed to operate more crossings which werent't spotted from space, because they didn't reuse landing points. And they used BMDs as watercrafts at night.


These are invisible crossing point? US cant see at night?


khansaheeb said:


> Do you think China and India will allow that, to let the Europeans become the undisputed Champions? I doubt it very much. The world has entered the third world war but don't know it yet.


What could China and India do to the EU? They are so benign its not funny. 


Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> All those people are fooled into thinking that Ukraine is winning , it's Nato vs Russia , no country in history has recieved as much weapons,funds manpower and Intelligence as Ukraine did , Ukrainians are doing their only pressing buttons , nato satellites are locating Russian targets and locking it the Ukrainian only press the buttons there are more than 100 satellite working for Ukraine . Russia should return build it's economy and modernise it's armaments then talk of war it can't beat 40plus countries alone
> Even the Ukrainian forces are now more and more appewr to be foreign fighters most probably nato soldiers which they calling volunteers


you seem to understand this but the top brass in Russia does not, or they would not have started this.

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## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> China's economic engine is at stake. 3% GDP growth, slowest in Asia, and slowest in decades. China is not going to risk its economic future for the sake of you postulating that somehow Russia is more important
> 
> 
> Wokeness? Like Xi's wokeness to help the Chinese population at expense of the rich and the mean time reduce China's growth by 2%. Its called strategic goal (in case of Biden to neuter Putin and Russia so it won't ever interfere. These elections went without interference and Putin got what he deserved).
> 
> Don't use wokeness to hide somebody's true ability to kick some serious *** without putting his own troops on the ground


I am no proponent of zero covid but saving millions of life at the expense of economic growth was a choice made by China. Killing 1 mil was your democratic choice. Even with such a policy we have the largest surplus in decades and a 3% growth. Anyway, Russia at odds with the West is beneficial for us, US is now screwing Europe selling gas at triple the price and using subsidies to deindustrialize Europe. In the end there is only China or US at the top. Thanks Biden.


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## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> Okay, so will Russians first go to Afghanistan to re-claim it since they never got defeated there? I am not sure where this view comes from other than a lot of smoking the good stuff. They lost more soldiers , suffered more casualties, lost more assets than the Afghanistan invasion they withdrew (not defeated apparently) and still haven't gone back. Its been so long that another power went in with the same result.


Seriously Afghanistan? Lol. Boy, Russia is not my country nor am. I a fan of Russia. I am just analyzing things objectively, Russia will not lose this war, because if they lose, it will be WW3. Just common sense babe. I love my dimsum breakfast, and NATo has no right destroying world peace. Stop fcking expanding and destabilising the world assholes.



925boy said:


> Xi Jinping knows that offer is not real, tangible or possible.
> 
> 
> As of today? if yes, then based on what? please back this up- this is a bogus claim that is just your projection.


Of course, if Russia us dismantled, guess who will claim Siberia? Anyway we are not that dumb to fall for that. US is trying to divide us, if Russia falls, the hegemon will destroy China next.

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## Georg

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> All those people are fooled into thinking that Ukraine is winning , it's Nato vs Russia , no country in history has recieved as much weapons,funds manpower and Intelligence as Ukraine did , Ukrainians are doing their only pressing buttons , nato satellites are locating Russian targets and locking it the Ukrainian only press the buttons there are more than 100 satellite working for Ukraine . Russia should return build it's economy and modernise it's armaments then talk of war it can't beat 40plus countries alone
> Even the Ukrainian forces are now more and more appewr to be foreign fighters most probably nato soldiers which they calling volunteers



Soviet did in ww2 the only reason they won against Nazi Germany... without land lease it would have ended badly for the Orcs

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## Viet

Ukraine sea drones

Weight 1 ton, range 400km, max speed 80kph, operation hours 60h, HD image resolution, 256 bit encrypted communications.

Ready to go


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591035625431793665

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## A.P. Richelieu

serenity said:


> Well seems like NAFO group here thinks Europe USA and Ukraine can simply welcome Ukraine into NATO and they will not consider what Russia would think of that.
> 
> We can only see how this actually plays out (they would be wrong) if the sides agree on ceasefire and then Ukraine attempts to join NATO and NATO welcomes it. That won't happen as much as NAFO here think it will.


You are welcome to show which clause in the NATO Charter or in The 1997 Foundation Act signed between NATO and Russia that says Russia is involved in the NATO membership process.

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Seriously Afghanistan? Lol. Boy, Russia is not my country nor am. I a fan of Russia. I am just analyzing things objectively, Russia will not lose this war, because if they lose, it will be WW3. Just common sense babe. I love my dimsum breakfast, and NATo has no right destroying world peace. Stop fcking expanding and destabilising the world assholes.
> 
> 
> Of course, if Russia us dismantled, guess who will claim Siberia? Anyway we are not that dumb to fall for that. US is trying to divide us, if Russia falls, the hegemon will destroy China next.


You mean Putin will start nuclear war if Russia loses? Man, wake up, eat your dim sum. Russia will lose this war. There is no way out. Even if Putin runs amok we will see if Shoigu, Gerasimov and the commanders of Russia nuclear force are willing to push the button.

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## Viet

Putin, the man with the largest nuclear arsenal

He hates EU so much, still dreaming of USSR redux after Kherson defeat,

wearing a Italian luxury jacket of Loro Piana worth 24,000 euros.

Maybe the jacket will keep him safe when nuclear war breaks out.


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Another reason is that EU cannot and will not deal with Ukrainian Refugee and Energy Crisis 2.0. The only way they can do that is to have a stablised Eastern front, and the only way that can do that is to accept Ukrainian NATO membership. What Ukraine need to do is to degenerate Russia to a point that it will take them a long time to recover and hence cannot threaten the stability around Europe, because rest assure, even if Ukraine joined NATO, Russia is not just going to stop there, there are still a few non-NATO member in Europe Russia can bully. And they will if Ukraine joined NATO. Only if Russia conventional capability being decayed to a point that it cannot used to threaten other country, would NATO consider Ukraine membership.


There is pretty much not much non NATO country they can threaten Europe if Ukraine is the one left to join NATO. Except for Belarus which is closely align with Russia. Unless Russia decides to fly over the NATO countries and land or parachute in those non-NATO countries.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> There are a few way Ukraine can cross, but those would come with high price.
> 
> If they have to cross for whatever reason, they can use the kakhovka dam as a strong point and cross from there. Or air assault into the rear, that would be extremely risky
> 
> The safest and less risky point is they just attack from Orikhiv and move south toward either Mariupol or Melitipol while pressuring the Russian on the other side of the Dnieper. The thing is, you don't want Russia to move majority of those troop eastward, that will surge the ongoing Bakhmut offence, which mean Ukraine would need to offset that by sending freed troop from Kherson and help defend Bakhmut. Ukraine don't want that, they most likely wanted to attack Russian elsewhere riding the high.


Your prediction may come true. Ukraine army withdraws 30,000 men from Kherson operations. the troops will form the spearhead towards Saprorischa and Melitopol. Seems there isn’t no truce in the winter months.

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## Oldman1

Paul2 said:


> They got 2 for trials in August. The volunteer group in Poland made 2 variants: first drops 6 3.4kg 81mm, or 4 4.15kg mortar bombs, second drops 1 120mm
> 
> That's still work in progress. PID, and gyros needs tuning. We also need an optical flow sensor which can work at night.
> 
> It's hard to pilot, and currently requires somebody with experience piloting DIY quadcopters to not to crash within minutes. One time it went into pilot induced oscillations when fully loaded with bombs...
> 
> No doubt, it can be mass produced in Poland if money, and equipment will come.


Are these kind of like Agriculture quadcopters of some kind? Was thinking more of fix wing vertical launch versions. But not going to complain about new quad copters being introduced especially able to drop bigger grenades or mortars. 










This is the type I was leaning towards. 








jhungary said:


> They need conventional air power to try to neutralise Russian position on the other side, artillery can do the trick, but you would need a lot of those.
> 
> If conventional air power is unavailable, a large quantity of drone will do.
> 
> 
> That was before the collapse of the entire Russian line, I think that picture is on Nov 9 or Nov 10.
> 
> Back then Mykolaiv could still be attacked by land and sea had Russian broken thru the Ukrainian frontline, now the front line is moved to Kherson, expect the same amount of concentration in Kherson if not more, and expecting the unit now in the rear (Mykolaiv and Kryvyi Rih or even Dnipro (which have 3 brigades in the area) to move forward.


Probably use some of those units in their current offensive in Luhansk as well.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> No. Well, I don't know, depends on circumstance.
> 
> If this is an execution, they wouldn't be line up so neatly. When you are shot standing up, especially you are not tied down (as they were not ties) you cannot control your fall when you died, because, well, you are dead already... So, your body would be positioned differently than other because the pose would have been random. As none of these soldiers can choose how they fall when they died.
> 
> Like this
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 896103
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 896108
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how the position of each body is different than the others?
> 
> And in this clip, 5 Russian body die head to toe in the same way, unless you really that lucky and they all felt the same way, or they were posed, but then you know it is not posted because the blood on the floor matches the wound. Which mean these body lies as it is. That's how it was deposited when they died.
> 
> So what kill these men? First of all, they all "Forced" into the same position would mean they were killed by a force traumatic enough to move the body of a few men which I guess weight about hundred kilogram each, that suggested explosion because bullet can't do that. Then you can see they are all lay in a circular direction with the same pattern of debris radiated along the floor, you would know it most likely an Artillery/mortar strike that kill these men.
> 
> Now if they were unarmed and hit by an artillery/mortar strike, and they are just shooting mortar round at them for fun, that could be a war crime, but it can also just be the soldiers had already cleaned up the scene and collected their weapon. So I don't know.



Saab MAPAM airburst


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## Oldman1

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Executed Russian prisoners ?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591548674018250752


Tough to say but looks more like artillery strike. Their hands and legs are not bound and they are still wearing their body armor and vests and helmets. 1 body is away from the rest and others laying on their backs or laying on their stomach.

Kind of reminds me of this when Russian troops are clumped together at the beginning of the video. Course this is more grenade attack from drone than an actual artillery strike.





Also in the link of the telegram social network it says with google translate 

https://****/gistapapapa/52149With love from the 80th brigade of the Armed Forces

Series 3 or lead poisoning

#flowers

Content from flower garden owners

80th Brigade is a Ukrainian Air Assault unit. So would they have a drone recording an execution? Or just their results from an attack lets say an artillery strike.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> There is pretty much not much non NATO country they can threaten Europe if Ukraine is the one left to join NATO. Except for Belarus which is closely align with Russia. Unless Russia decides to fly over the NATO countries and land or parachute in those non-NATO countries.


Well, they can threaten a few others, like Moldova or Countries on the other side of Caucasus like Georgia, Azerbaijan et el. 

On the other hand, Russia may not need serious military intervention to destabilise central Europe. State like Kosovo can be threatened by increasing support to Serbian fraction.



Viet said:


> Your prediction may come true. Ukraine army withdraws 30,000 men from Kherson operations. the troops will form the spearhead towards Saprorischa and Melitopol. Seems there isn’t no truce in the winter months.


I will say, we need to wait and see for it. 

But attacking Russia now make sense, especially after Kyiv, Kharkiv and now Kherson (the three Ks) Russian morale s probably rock bottom right now, not really much of a point give them breathing space and let them rest over it. You gotta keep the pressure going, and the best way to do is to cut directly thru to Melitopol or Mariupol.



Oldman1 said:


> Are these kind of like Agriculture quadcopters of some kind? Was thinking more of fix wing vertical launch versions. But not going to complain about new quad copters being introduced especially able to drop bigger grenades or mortars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the type I was leaning towards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably use some of those units in their current offensive in Luhansk as well.


you are talking about drone or unit on the current Luhansk offensive??



Paul2 said:


> Saab MAPAM airburst


Possible. 

This is most likely an artillery strike, again, execution is not going to end up like that....

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, they can threaten a few others, like Moldova or Countries on the other side of Caucasus like Georgia, Azerbaijan et el.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia may not need serious military intervention to destabilise central Europe. State like Kosovo can be threatened by increasing support to Serbian fraction.


Most likely shift their focus to the Caucasus and Stans in near future where those countries not as powerful.


jhungary said:


> But attacking Russia now make sense, especially after Kyiv, Kharkiv and now Kherson (the three Ks) Russian morale s probably rock bottom right now, not really much of a point give them breathing space and let them rest over it. You gotta keep the pressure going, and the best way to do is to cut directly thru to Melitopol or Mariupol.


Don't know if the weather is not too bad from November to January. Melitopol would be the best target to attack in my view. Mariupol is more symbolic. Should have blocking units facing towards Mariupol while having other units attack Melitopol and the surrounding areas as well as push towards Kherson and Crimea in terms of direction.


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> You mean Putin will start nuclear war if Russia loses? Man, wake up, eat your dim sum. Russia will lose this war. There is no way out. Even if Putin runs amok we will see if Shoigu, Gerasimov and the commanders of Russia nuclear force are willing to push the button.


It will be tactical nukes when he gets desperate. He will create a buffer radiated zone between Russia and NATO. Nobody is going to nuke Russia even if Ukraine gets nuked. That's the power of the P5. But if course the current situation is still manageable, its just how much Ukraine is willing to let go. 60% of Kherson on the east bank, Donbass and Zaphoriye. Or years of bombing n suffering, this can go on forever.

The Russian intention had never been about getting territory from Ukraine exvept for Crimea which rightfully belonged to Russia. Their aim was like the SinoViet war of 1979, teaching a lesson and pressurising Ukraine into an agreement. Of course we know shit like that would never work, and now this escalated into land grabbing to justify the war cost. To me Russia will most likely keep the territories in the East and of course Crimea. It's just common geographical sense.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Don't know if the weather is not too bad from November to January. Melitopol would be the best target to attack in my view. Mariupol is more symbolic. Should have blocking units facing towards Mariupol while having other units attack Melitopol and the surrounding areas as well as push towards Kherson and Crimea in terms of direction.



Well, look at it strategically. 

If the ultimate aim is to cut Russian supply line in half, and stop the land corridor. Then you don't really need Mariupol, Melitopol could do. Mariupol can act as a ferry point and using the port to ship stuff to Crimea instead of going from all the way from Russia. 

In a tactical sense. You have 2 crossing point over a wide and deep river, and an entry point just off the river. Conventional wisdom would suggest you assault parallel toward the river, which have the river act as your flank, and attack Russia thru Orikhiv or closer at Kamianske. But I would say Ukraine have enough force to push from both Nova Kakhovka and Zaporizhzhia, IF they did not send any troop to Bakhmut, which is another logical things to do. 

It really depends on how Ukraine want to do it, they have the upperhand now, because they have option, Russia would need to at least react to this which would put them in passive. I would doubt Ukraine will let this chance go, but then I do not speak for Ukraine...They might think it's okay, that's far enough, we call it until next Spring.

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## Oldman1

Han Patriot said:


> It will be tactical nukes when he gets desperate. He will create a buffer radiated zone between Russia and NATO. Nobody is going to nuke Russia even if Ukraine gets nuked. That's the power of the P5. But if course the current situation is still manageable, its just how much Ukraine is willing to let go. 60% of Kherson on the east bank, Donbass and Zaphoriye. Or years of bombing n suffering, this can go on forever.


He's not stupid to do such a thing. There will be a response from NATO from allowing this to go unpunished because Putin will think he can do it again and again.

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## Han Patriot

Oldman1 said:


> He's not stupid to do such a thing. There will be a response from NATO from allowing this to go unpunished because Putin will think he can do it again and again.


Response like what? sanctions? Lollolo. For gods sake, you see US troops on the ground? They can keep on shouting, but everybody knows, no P5 will fight direct wars amongst themselves.

China must be hard at work supplying shit to NK and Iran to supply to Russia. Lol

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, look at it strategically.
> 
> If the ultimate aim is to cut Russian supply line in half, and stop the land corridor. Then you don't really need Mariupol, Melitopol could do. Mariupol can act as a ferry point and using the port to ship stuff to Crimea instead of going from all the way from Russia.
> 
> In a tactical sense. You have 2 crossing point over a wide and deep river, and an entry point just off the river. Conventional wisdom would suggest you assault parallel toward the river, which have the river act as your flank, and attack Russia thru Orikhiv or closer at Kamianske. But I would say Ukraine have enough force to push from both Nova Kakhovka and Zaporizhzhia, IF they did not send any troop to Bakhmut, which is another logical things to do.
> 
> It really depends on how Ukraine want to do it, they have the upperhand now, because they have option, Russia would need to at least react to this which would put them in passive. I would doubt Ukraine will let this chance go, but then I do not speak for Ukraine...They might think it's okay, that's far enough, we call it until next Spring.


Russian troops mindset after just retreating from Kherson only to see another massive attack from another direction. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.



Han Patriot said:


> Response like what? sanctions? Lollolo. For gods sake, you see US troops on the ground? They can keep on shouting, but everybody knows, no P5 will fight direct wars amongst themselves.
> 
> China must be hard at work supplying shit to NK ane Iran to supply to Russia.


Ukrainian troops are enough. You can see the NATO Air Force bombing the Russians in Ukraine like it was Gulf War 1. And the Ukrainian troops seeing their country just suddenly nuked, they are going to be 10 times better than the American troops, more than ever.


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## Han Patriot

Oldman1 said:


> Russian troops mindset after just retreating from Kherson only to see another massive attack from another direction. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
> 
> 
> Ukrainian troops are enough. You can see the NATO Air Force bombing the Russians in Ukraine like it was Gulf War 1.


I had been listening to propaganda like this for the past 6 months that Russia will lose. Its a war and advancement and retreat is normal. I think Russia is courageous enough to retreat to defensible east side albeit all the hoohah and political pressure. Militarily, its the right thing to do. I salute them for their bravery to do the right thing. LOSE MEN FOR TERRITORY EQUALS LOSE BOTH MAN AND LAND.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Russian troops mindset after just retreating from Kherson only to see another massive attack from another direction. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.



Well, it is going to be shit regardless, because Russia is not withdrawing these troop back to Russia for R&R, they are most likely going to push them into another battle right after this.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, it is going to be shit regardless, because Russia is not withdrawing these troop back to Russia for R&R, they are most likely going to push them into another battle right after this.


Probably Bakmut offensive besides acting as defensive filling gaps from Kherson to Luhansk.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Probably Bakmut offensive besides acting as defensive filling gaps from Kherson to Luhansk.


They are going to Bakhmut, no doubt about that. 

Which is what the Ukrainian doing there is grinding down the Russian for fun. Bakhmut have no value to either side, I still don't know why Russia is attacking, because you can't go to Sloviansk and Kramatorsk even if you take Bakhmut.......

But well....

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## LeGenD

khansaheeb said:


> For the first time since the WW2 war could enter Russian territory as the Ukrainians gain momentum and head for the border, panic must be setting in Moscow :-


The war is taking place inside Russian territory already. Ukranian commandoes have conducted multiple sabotaging operations inside Russia. These troops are called "saboteurs."









Ukrainian Commandoes Raid Airfield Deep Inside Russia, Destroy Frontline Helicopters - Kyiv Post - Ukraine's Global Voice


Ukrainian commandoes blew up three helicopter gunships at a Russian military airfield close to the Latvian border… - Nov. 01, 2022. By Stefan Korshak




www.kyivpost.com





One of the operations was similar to Apache Night Raid in Iraq in 1991 and Operation Neptune Spear in 2011 in its conduct:









Ukrainian helicopters raid oil depot in Russian city: reports


The Mi-24 helicopters can be seen launching missiles at the depot in videos posted to social media.




www.armytimes.com





These men are among the most courageous in the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> I am no proponent of zero covid but saving millions of life at the expense of economic growth was a choice made by China. Killing 1 mil was your democratic choice. Even with such a policy we have the largest surplus in decades and a 3% growth. Anyway, Russia at odds with the West is beneficial for us, US is now screwing Europe selling gas at triple the price and using subsidies to deindustrialize Europe. In the end there is only China or US at the top. Thanks Biden.


LOL 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589584180568113153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588807049261223937
Meanwhile Vietnam (&even cambodia) records lower infection & death compared to china with lockdown. So china are actually more incompetent than Vietnam at handling covid.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/can-xis-china-correct-course-on-covid-like-vietnam/2022/08/16/97e071fa-1daf-11ed-9ce6-68253bd31864_story.html

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## Reashot Xigwin

Funny video

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589547626126807041
Le frogs fighting alongside Ukrainians

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591691207553740800


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## LeGenD

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589584180568113153
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588807049261223937
> Meanwhile Vietnam (&even cambodia) records lower infection & death compared to china with lockdown. So china are actually more incompetent than Vietnam at handling covid.
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/can-xis-china-correct-course-on-covid-like-vietnam/2022/08/16/97e071fa-1daf-11ed-9ce6-68253bd31864_story.html


Offtopic post, dear.


----------



## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> It will be tactical nukes when he gets desperate. He will create a buffer radiated zone between Russia and NATO. Nobody is going to nuke Russia even if Ukraine gets nuked. That's the power of the P5. But if course the current situation is still manageable, its just how much Ukraine is willing to let go. 60% of Kherson on the east bank, Donbass and Zaphoriye. Or years of bombing n suffering, this can go on forever.
> 
> The Russian intention had never been about getting territory from Ukraine exvept for Crimea which rightfully belonged to Russia. Their aim was like the SinoViet war of 1979, teaching a lesson and pressurising Ukraine into an agreement. Of course we know shit like that would never work, and now this escalated into land grabbing to justify the war cost. To me Russia will most likely keep the territories in the East and of course Crimea. It's just common geographical sense.


Let’s wait, Putin can’t start a nuclear war by himself. He can order it, however the order must be approved by Shoigu and Gerasimov, and Russia nuclear forces must agree. A tactical nuke makes no sense because the damage is limited. If nuke then hundreds. The question is if Putin wants to occupy nuclear deserts next to Russia. Don’t forget Ukraine can assemble nukes too, they have materials.

I don’t think Russia can keep anything, if so, then the war will continue forever.


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> These are invisible crossing point? US cant see at night?



Optical satellites obviously cannot. IR, and SAR can, but there are fever of them, and they have higher orbits. So, a crossing which was done in an organised manner in, say, 30m have less chances being picked up.


----------



## LeGenD

Han Patriot said:


> Response like what? sanctions? Lollolo. For gods sake, you see US troops on the ground? They can keep on shouting, but everybody knows, no P5 will fight direct wars amongst themselves.
> 
> China must be hard at work supplying shit to NK and Iran to supply to Russia. Lol


US responded to nuclear sabre-rattling:









U.S. warns Putin of 'catastrophic' consequences over nuclear weapons


The United States would respond decisively to any Russian use of nuclear weapons against Ukraine and has spelled out to Moscow the "catastrophic consequences" it would face, U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said on Sunday.




www.reuters.com





Putin understood the stakes:









Putin Plays Down Nuclear Threat in Ukraine as He Lambasts US


President Vladimir Putin lashed out at the US and Europe over his war in Ukraine, heaped praise on Saudi Arabia and reiterated support for China’s claim to Taiwan as he sought to cast Russia as a champion of conservative values against Western liberalism.




www.bloomberg.com

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## serenity

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You are welcome to show which clause in the NATO Charter or in The 1997 Foundation Act signed between NATO and Russia that says Russia is involved in the NATO membership process.



You are misunderstanding what I am saying. Perhaps a language barrier between us.

Russia has no say in who joins NATO. NATO however will have a concern with how Russia will behave given a Ukrainian entry into NATO.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Translated version:

COD needs to add this gun to MW2. 😁


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591546780285816832


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

90℅ Attrition rate for the rusky


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591488510804262912

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## Reashot Xigwin

Remember it's not racist to discriminate against the Russians. It's morally correct even. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591525688942772227

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Reashot Xigwin

LeGenD said:


> US responded to nuclear sabre-rattling:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. warns Putin of 'catastrophic' consequences over nuclear weapons
> 
> 
> The United States would respond decisively to any Russian use of nuclear weapons against Ukraine and has spelled out to Moscow the "catastrophic consequences" it would face, U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said on Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin understood the stakes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin Plays Down Nuclear Threat in Ukraine as He Lambasts US
> 
> 
> President Vladimir Putin lashed out at the US and Europe over his war in Ukraine, heaped praise on Saudi Arabia and reiterated support for China’s claim to Taiwan as he sought to cast Russia as a champion of conservative values against Western liberalism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com



The biggest defense Russia have against nuclear weapons is that large part of their country already look like post apocalyptic nuclear hellscape. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591713928157233152

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## Vergennes

Russians are truly cannon fodders,that's sickening.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591741456590557184

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## Corax

Oldman1 said:


> Tough to say but looks more like artillery strike. Their hands and legs are not bound and they are still wearing their body armor and vests and helmets. 1 body is away from the rest and others laying on their backs or laying on their stomach.
> 
> Kind of reminds me of this when Russian troops are clumped together at the beginning of the video. Course this is more grenade attack from drone than an actual artillery strike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also in the link of the telegram social network it says with google translate
> 
> https://****/gistapapapa/52149With love from the 80th brigade of the Armed Forces
> 
> Series 3 or lead poisoning
> 
> #flowers
> 
> Content from flower garden owners
> 
> 80th Brigade is a Ukrainian Air Assault unit. So would they have a drone recording an execution? Or just their results from an attack lets say an artillery strike.



I am truly aghast at the behaviour of russian troops, they are like lemmings, they just sit their waiting to be blown up by these drones. The don't move or even try to avoid the drones, or even bother looking up and trying to locate and shoot down the drones. The ukies are no better.

Glad to see the American warmongers finally admit that both the Russians and Ukies have lost the same number of men, around 100,000 killed and injured. In that sense, Russia and Ukraine are peer adversaries. This is natural selection in action, stupidity is removing the detritus of society...still, that leaves all those russian and Ukrainian women looking for husbands abroad.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

serenity said:


> You are misunderstanding what I am saying. Perhaps a language barrier between us.
> 
> Russia has no say in who joins NATO. NATO however will have a concern with how Russia will behave given a Ukrainian entry into NATO.


NATO knows what happens if Ukraine stays out of NATO, as we are experiencing that right now.
NATO also knows how carefully Russia is avoiding getting into a conflict with NATO.
So it cannot be ruled out.


----------



## aviator_fan

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Afghan army didn't recieve 45bn$ in 6 months , and all those weapons were under nato forces afghans were only allowed to fly trainer jets or Russian copters,
> Usa played smart here usa depleted all the European countries of their existing Russian weaponry now what choice Europe has other than buying American weapons ? Tens of countries ordered himmars , half of Europe will buy f35 so usa is the main beneficiary.
> Usa economy is war economy they feed on wars if this one is over they will need another one perhaps taiwas vs china or may be India vs Pakistan . Usa can't live without wars
> President trump wws the only president who opposed war and even spoke against generals and pentagon
> He said our generals wants war to benefit weapon industry and I'm tired of these endless wars let's build america again


Israel got about $3BN from 71-74. In today's currency thats about $20BN. So same rough order of magnitude. But Israel was not staring down a near superpower directly (like Russia). It was one proxy against another (less military competent) set of proxies.

Israel in terms of approximate scale and ability to operate weapons is close to Ukraine situation. It won't be exact because no country has gone against Russia head-on.

Yes its true US is going hunting for wars. But so has Russia, interfering via Wagner in theaters. This is the bad behavior of powers (some great, some want to be considered great). Not sure what that adds to the argument. It is not as if US and China are at war and China does not have a track record of expansion and aggression, in which case your argument may hold water.



Han Patriot said:


> I am no proponent of zero covid but saving millions of life at the expense of economic growth was a choice made by China. Killing 1 mil was your democratic choice. Even with such a policy we have the largest surplus in decades and a 3% growth. Anyway, Russia at odds with the West is beneficial for us, US is now screwing Europe selling gas at triple the price and using subsidies to deindustrialize Europe. In the end there is only China or US at the top. Thanks Biden.


Two points:
1. A million people died when there was no vaccine. No country (3rd world or 1st world) stuck its head in the sand once science proved they could defeat COVID. Unfortunately, Xi would rather keep on imprisoning its entire cities (and its economic production) that take the step. I am not gloating on this stupidity: i am saying this could be like 1940s when penicillin was discovered and saved lives, and then China would have denied it helps and keep its economy hostage. Death rates plummet if vaccine is used and its been around for almost 2 years.

2. Its not US the country that sells gas to Europe. There are European energy companies (Shell for example). This is not a command / communist economy where one state controlled entity is selling to the other. Governments are not doing deals. The companies making money are the energy companies that buy at one market rate and sell at another and are raking in record profits (most of them are European companies). It is a bad situation but there will be unprecedented temporary taxes on them as a consequence.

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> It will be tactical nukes when he gets desperate. He will create a buffer radiated zone between Russia and NATO. Nobody is going to nuke Russia even if Ukraine gets nuked. That's the power of the P5. But if course the current situation is still manageable, its just how much Ukraine is willing to let go. 60% of Kherson on the east bank, Donbass and Zaphoriye. Or years of bombing n suffering, this can go on forever.
> 
> The Russian intention had never been about getting territory from Ukraine exvept for Crimea which rightfully belonged to Russia. Their aim was like the SinoViet war of 1979, teaching a lesson and pressurising Ukraine into an agreement. Of course we know shit like that would never work, and now this escalated into land grabbing to justify the war cost. To me Russia will most likely keep the territories in the East and of course Crimea. It's just common geographical sense.


A radiation buffer? Is Putin's army that keeps on withdrawing going to create some sort of physical curtain / metal barrier ? Seriously? You understand that there are Russian towns right across , and while ground zero may be at a location in Ukraine, the radioactive fallout will travel in all directions.

Moscow is only 400 - 500 miles in land, not in Kamchatka peninsula where you can make it somebody elsels problem. This lack of depth between capital and border is what prompted the invasion and is likely a major deterrent in using nukes (killing their own civilians)



Han Patriot said:


> I had been listening to propaganda like this for the past 6 months that Russia will lose. Its a war and advancement and retreat is normal. I think Russia is courageous enough to retreat to defensible east side albeit all the hoohah and political pressure. Militarily, its the right thing to do. I salute them for their bravery to do the right thing. LOSE MEN FOR TERRITORY EQUALS LOSE BOTH MAN AND LAND.


Retreat is normal when there is gain taking place elsewhere. Its been on retreat for months so may be you have blocked that part of the developments. Last time it mobilized more people left the country than joined. Its out of prisoners now. Where do you think the military might will come from? While Russia has not used 100% of its military, it needs to keep a reserve for a war not with Ukraine. They will not commit those

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## Oublious

Shawnee said:


> Ukraine says Iran has stopped transfer of ballistic missiles to Russia because of an offer that was difficult to reject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> День двести шестьдесят первый. Беседа с @Alexey Arestovych Алексей Арестович
> 
> 
> #Фейгин #ФейгинLIVE #арестович День двести шестьдесят первый. Беседа с @Alexey Arestovych Алексей Арестович (Киев).https://feygin-live.customprint.market/uk...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine says Iran could not say No




lol

Ukrian is a broke country, ther economy is much worse then the poorest African country. They don't have a ecnomy working 😆 .

What did they offer Iran? Blond women?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584299594879741952


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## RoadAmerica

Han Patriot said:


> Response like what? sanctions? Lollolo. For gods sake, you see US troops on the ground? They can keep on shouting, but everybody knows, no P5 will fight direct wars amongst themselves.
> 
> China must be hard at work supplying shit to NK and Iran to supply to Russia. Lol


The US has already made public they’d sink the Black Sea fleet and wipe out Russian troops in Ukraine if ANY nuke was used.

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## 925boy

LeGenD said:


> The war is taking place inside Russian territory already. Ukranian commandoes have conducted multiple sabotaging operations inside Russia. These troops are called "saboteurs."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian Commandoes Raid Airfield Deep Inside Russia, Destroy Frontline Helicopters - Kyiv Post - Ukraine's Global Voice
> 
> 
> Ukrainian commandoes blew up three helicopter gunships at a Russian military airfield close to the Latvian border… - Nov. 01, 2022. By Stefan Korshak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kyivpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These men are among the most courageous in the world.


how does 1(or even a few over the past few months) Ukrainian operation in Russia = "The war is taking place inside Russian territory already"?

stop exaggerating man!!


----------



## jhungary

If you want first hand information in Ukraine, you can only get from a local source. 

This is why Kherson is liberated so easily.

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## LeGenD

925boy said:


> how does 1(or even a few over the past few months) Ukrainian operation in Russia = "The war is taking place inside Russian territory already"?
> 
> stop exaggerating man!!


These are the most secretive of Ukranian operations. Details are limited due to obvious reasons.

When I learned about these operations, I was *surprised* as well. 

But I understood that a capable side can fight. Every country is not like Georgia and Kuwait.

I am trying to find relevant articles and compiling them in the repository thread.

Let us see.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589584180568113153
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588807049261223937
> Meanwhile Vietnam (&even cambodia) records lower infection & death compared to china with lockdown. So china are actually more incompetent than Vietnam at handling covid.
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/can-xis-china-correct-course-on-covid-like-vietnam/2022/08/16/97e071fa-1daf-11ed-9ce6-68253bd31864_story.html


Well lets not turn this into a covid thread. Try managing 1.4bil people and see the differences. But that justifies 1 mil dead in US and 70k new deaths since Shanghai lockdown?



Viet said:


> Let’s wait, Putin can’t start a nuclear war by himself. He can order it, however the order must be approved by Shoigu and Gerasimov, and Russia nuclear forces must agree. A tactical nuke makes no sense because the damage is limited. If nuke then hundreds. The question is if Putin wants to occupy nuclear deserts next to Russia. Don’t forget Ukraine can assemble nukes too, they have materials.
> 
> I don’t think Russia can keep anything, if so, then the war will continue forever.



Whether Ukraine can have a bomb us speculation, fact is Russia has it and US does not even dare get involved. I still remember Biden saying severe consequences if Ukraine was invaded, then we know it was just sanctions as usual. Lololol



LeGenD said:


> US responded to nuclear sabre-rattling:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. warns Putin of 'catastrophic' consequences over nuclear weapons
> 
> 
> The United States would respond decisively to any Russian use of nuclear weapons against Ukraine and has spelled out to Moscow the "catastrophic consequences" it would face, U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said on Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin understood the stakes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin Plays Down Nuclear Threat in Ukraine as He Lambasts US
> 
> 
> President Vladimir Putin lashed out at the US and Europe over his war in Ukraine, heaped praise on Saudi Arabia and reiterated support for China’s claim to Taiwan as he sought to cast Russia as a champion of conservative values against Western liberalism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


Hopefully, but do you think US would nuke Russia if Ukraine gets nuked? I don't think so.



aviator_fan said:


> A radiation buffer? Is Putin's army that keeps on withdrawing going to create some sort of physical curtain / metal barrier ? Seriously? You understand that there are Russian towns right across , and while ground zero may be at a location in Ukraine, the radioactive fallout will travel in all directions.
> 
> Moscow is only 400 - 500 miles in land, not in Kamchatka peninsula where you can make it somebody elsels problem. This lack of depth between capital and border is what prompted the invasion and is likely a major deterrent in using nukes (killing their own civilians)
> 
> 
> Retreat is normal when there is gain taking place elsewhere. Its been on retreat for months so may be you have blocked that part of the developments. Last time it mobilized more people left the country than joined. Its out of prisoners now. Where do you think the military might will come from? While Russia has not used 100% of its military, it needs to keep a reserve for a war not with Ukraine. They will not commit those


I am just speculating but if Russia is pushed to one corner, you think they will just surrender Crimea? I mean just plain simple common sense. Think!

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## Han Patriot

RoadAmerica said:


> The US has already made public they’d sink the Black Sea fleet and wipe out Russian troops in Ukraine if ANY nuke was used.


And you think Russia cant do it? Lol. America likes to warn and talk but in the end there isnt even any American boots in Ukraine. Let alone NATo. An alliance of cowards? Come on, if China pumped up Russia with weapons especially our infamous drones, Ukraine is toasts. HiMARs? Heard if SY400? The reason for Russian poor performance was the lack of space assets, if we just give them access to the Yaogan system and beidou hyperaccurate guidance. You think you can outproduce China? We can basically cteate a new Indian Navy every 3 years

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> These are the most secretive of Ukranian operations. Details are limited due to obvious reasons.
> 
> When I learned about these operations, I was *surprised* as well.
> 
> But I understood that a capable side can fight. Every country is not like Georgia and Kuwait.
> 
> I am trying to find relevant articles and compiling them in the repository thread.
> 
> Let us see.


You forgot about the car bombing of that guy's daughter, the attack on Kerch Bridge on the Russian side, the explosion in Klintsy. And countless attacks inside Crimea.....

There are no doubt Ukraine SBU operating within Russian border, both the annexed land border and inside Russian actual border

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## ZeGerman

Han Patriot said:


> And you think Russia cant do it? Lol. America likes to warn and talk but in the end there isnt even any American boots in Ukraine. Let alone NATo. An alliance of cowards? Come on, if China pumped up Russia with weapons especially our infamous drones, Ukraine is toasts. HiMARs? Heard if SY400? The reason for Russian poor performance was the lack of space assets, if we just give them access to the Yaogan system and beidou hyperaccurate guidance. You think you can outproduce China? We can basically cteate a new Indian Navy every 3 years


China will stay put cause the west economy, both in its honey (trade) or as a stick (sanctions) is of much bigger importance then helping russia re-colonize ukraine 

Spare me your excessive bragging about the PLA might when thats purely “on paper”. Your worse then the average “America number 1” yankee.

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> China will stay put cause the west economy, both in its honey (trade) or as a stick (sanctions) is of much bigger importance then helping russia re-colonize ukraine
> 
> Spare me your excessive bragging about the PLA might when thats purely “on paper”. Your worse then the average “America number 1” yankee.


lol, I don't know why people keep indulge in childish people here. 

You are talking about a guy who said this







is more defendable than this






That said all I need to know about how much he knows about war.......Talking to him on these issue is going to be a giant waste of time.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591807214616182784

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

Han Patriot said:


> And you think Russia cant do it? Lol. America likes to warn and talk but in the end there isnt even any American boots in Ukraine. Let alone NATo. An alliance of cowards? Come on, if China pumped up Russia with weapons especially our infamous drones, Ukraine is toasts. HiMARs? Heard if SY400? The reason for Russian poor performance was the lack of space assets, if we just give them access to the Yaogan system and beidou hyperaccurate guidance. You think you can outproduce China? We can basically cteate a new Indian Navy every 3 years


😂 Ukraine is toast?
Russia hasn’t won a battle in months no amount of Chinese “space assets” help would change that. Still waiting for China to supply anything to Russia 
Get a grip on reality


----------



## Trench Broom

Lots of the pro-Russia Islamists having to eat some humble pie recently.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591810524907704321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591811977906905093

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591809571429175296


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## Viet

Ukraine presses on the offensive.

next stop: Melitopol







Ukrainian soldiers in the village of Snihurivka, in southern Ukraine, on Thursday, the day after Russia formally announced it had retreated from villages along the Kherson front.Credit...Lynsey Addario for The New York Times









Ukraine Signals It Will Stay on the Offensive, Despite Talk of a Lull


Many analysts and diplomats have suggested there could be a pause in major combat, and even peace talks, over the winter, but after pushing the Russians out of Kherson, Ukraine has no desire to stop.




www.nytimes.com

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## LeGenD

Han Patriot said:


> Hopefully, but do you think US would nuke Russia if Ukraine gets nuked? I don't think so.


Russia contemplated the possibility of using tactical nukes or dirty bombs in Ukraine. But US informed Putin that *it* will intervene and finish the job of destroying Russian forces stationed inside Ukraine and around Ukraine in response.

Putin realized the stakes and shot down the proposal.

Russians are found to be pragmatic when it comes to nuclear option. They do not want to go this far in clashes involving NATO. Good for mankind.

Russians have won wars before. But there is no guarantee that they will succeed in every front that they might choose to open.

Wars suck, bro. Unfortunately, crackheads pop up from time to time and ruin many lives with bad decisions.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Broccoli

jhungary said:


> You forgot about the car bombing of that guy's daughter, the attack on Kerch Bridge on the Russian side, the explosion in Klintsy. And countless attacks inside Crimea.....
> 
> There are no doubt Ukraine SBU operating within Russian border, both the annexed land border and inside Russian actual border



Most likely Russians themselves were behind Duginas bombing and yesterday Dugin himself was ranting about how withdraw from Kherson was a betrayal. 

Dont be surprised if Dugins assasination happens soon.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine signs the peace treaty with ASEAN.










Ukraine boosts political ties in Southeast Asia with peace treaty


Treaty with ASEAN is largely symbolic but comes as Kyiv seeks more international support and the isolation of Russia.




www.aljazeera.com


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## jhungary

Broccoli said:


> Most likely Russians themselves were behind Duginas bombing and yesterday Dugin himself was ranting about how withdraw from Kherson was a betrayal.
> 
> Dont be surprised if Dugins assasination happens soon.


It's widely believe the killing have something to do with Ukrainian SBU. While I do not denied that there are chance that this might have been the work of Russian splinter fraction. But chances are really low......


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## ziaulislam

Make sense to withdrawal beyond the river. It's a natural defense but this also means Russia has given up on Kherson.

It will just shell it for ever across the river but is focus will be donbass where it is making slow gains.

Once it grabs small area left it will ask Ukraine to either come to negotiation table or fight a forever war.

We all know what USA will decide then with respect to money

Question is will ukriane try to push beyond the river or not.
Russia orderly withdrawal means they have given narrowed their target more.

Russia is feeling internal pressure from war.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591843503428042752


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## thetutle

Oldman1 said:


> Tough to say but looks more like artillery strike. Their hands and legs are not bound and they are still wearing their body armor and vests and helmets. 1 body is away from the rest and others laying on their backs or laying on their stomach.
> 
> Kind of reminds me of this when Russian troops are clumped together at the beginning of the video. Course this is more grenade attack from drone than an actual artillery strike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also in the link of the telegram social network it says with google translate
> 
> https://****/gistapapapa/52149With love from the 80th brigade of the Armed Forces
> 
> Series 3 or lead poisoning
> 
> #flowers
> 
> Content from flower garden owners
> 
> 80th Brigade is a Ukrainian Air Assault unit. So would they have a drone recording an execution? Or just their results from an attack lets say an artillery strike.


What kind of bombs are these that dont seek to kill anyone. They are all moaning and running. Why not makes projectiles that kill the enemy?



jhungary said:


> On the other hand, Russia may not need serious military intervention to destabilise central Europe. State like Kosovo can be threatened by increasing support to Serbian fraction.


There is nothing Russia can give Serbia that will help them fight any of their neighbours. Serbia wont fight anyone for another 50 years. 


Oldman1 said:


> Most likely shift their focus to the Caucasus and Stans in near future where those countries not as powerful.


Its just a matter of time before they "rescue" the Russian population living in Kazakstan. 


aviator_fan said:


> Israel in terms of approximate scale and ability to operate weapons is close to Ukraine situation. It won't be exact because no country has gone against Russia head-on.


Israel gets about 10 times more help than ukraine ever will.


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## Vergennes

Unconfirmed but huge if true


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591855236356112384

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## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> The war is taking place inside Russian territory already. Ukranian commandoes have conducted multiple sabotaging operations inside Russia. These troops are called "saboteurs."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian Commandoes Raid Airfield Deep Inside Russia, Destroy Frontline Helicopters - Kyiv Post - Ukraine's Global Voice
> 
> 
> Ukrainian commandoes blew up three helicopter gunships at a Russian military airfield close to the Latvian border… - Nov. 01, 2022. By Stefan Korshak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kyivpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the operations was similar to Apache Night Raid in Iraq in 1991 and Operation Neptune Spear in 2011 in its conduct:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian helicopters raid oil depot in Russian city: reports
> 
> 
> The Mi-24 helicopters can be seen launching missiles at the depot in videos posted to social media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.armytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These men are among the most courageous in the world.





LeGenD said:


> These are the most secretive of Ukranian operations. Details are limited due to obvious reasons.
> 
> When I learned about these operations, I was *surprised* as well.
> 
> But I understood that a capable side can fight. Every country is not like Georgia and Kuwait.
> 
> I am trying to find relevant articles and compiling them in the repository thread.
> 
> Let us see.



Remember the Winter War... 1:62 ratio

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591860091242049536

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## The SC




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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> Well lets not turn this into a covid thread. Try managing 1.4bil people and see the differences. But that justifies 1 mil dead in US and 70k new deaths since Shanghai lockdown?
> 
> 
> 
> Whether Ukraine can have a bomb us speculation, fact is Russia has it and US does not even dare get involved. I still remember Biden saying severe consequences if Ukraine was invaded, then we know it was just sanctions as usual. Lololol
> 
> 
> Hopefully, but do you think US would nuke Russia if Ukraine gets nuked? I don't think so.
> 
> 
> I am just speculating but if Russia is pushed to one corner, you think they will just surrender Crimea? I mean just plain simple common sense. Think!



China can't even manage a city of hundreds thousands people let alone 1billions. 

Im not comparing china to the US im comparing china with poorer 3rd world country like Vietnam & Cambodia. Which for some reason are more efficient with the handling of covid than china. Even recording less death & infection per capita compared to china. Heck even India are better at handling it than china.

Wagner being Wagner as usual. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591860842936795137


Vergennes said:


> Unconfirmed but huge if true
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591855236356112384


LOL if true the Russian can kiss keeping crimea goodbye.


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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> It's widely believe the killing have something to do with Ukrainian SBU. While I do not denied that there are chance that this might have been the work of Russian splinter fraction. But chances are really low......


Except Ukrainian doesn't give 2 crap about Dugin. The guy is a nobody outside of Russia and most Ukrainian doesn't even know he exist. If Ukrainian SBU are inside Russia they will be targeting more important individuals than Dugin. This is like if a country assassinate Jordan Peterson. 

It's more likely the Russian did it. Because of internal powerplay.


----------



## RoadAmerica

ziaulislam said:


> Make sense to withdrawal beyond the river. It's a natural defense but this also means Russia has given up on Kherson.
> 
> It will just shell it for ever across the river but is focus will be donbass where it is making slow gains.
> 
> Once it grabs small area left it will ask Ukraine to either come to negotiation table or fight a forever war.
> 
> We all know what USA will decide then with respect to money
> 
> Question is will ukriane try to push beyond the river or not.
> Russia orderly withdrawal means they have given narrowed their target more.
> 
> Russia is feeling internal pressure from war.


Haha another forever war fanboy. 
So how exactly will Russia shell across the river when Ukraine has the range advantage with HIMARS?

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## BHAN85

thetutle said:


> Peak oil was supposed to be in 2008. Its all nonsense.
> 
> lol
> 
> nope, Russia is about 50 years behind. Look at the wepoany. Its obvious.
> 
> These are invisible crossing point? US cant see at night?
> 
> What could China and India do to the EU? They are so benign its not funny.
> 
> you seem to understand this but the top brass in Russia does not, or they would not have started this.


Peak of normal crude oil already happened more than one decade ago, and that's the cause of diesel being more expensive than gasoline currently in some countries (like Spain), something unique in history (it always was cheaper same amount of diesel than gasoline).

It's harder get diesel from non-crude oil sources like shale oil.

And that started to happen in the start of this year, effects is just starting to happen.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> So you back off and try to derail the thread.
> That is a long way from the stupid claim that the US is to blame for the war.


War is a Russian thing. Like Cuba 1962 missile crisis was a USA thing.

But political/economically unstabilization of Ukraine is a Western/USA, like in Cuba was a USSR thing.

Without Western money in Ukraine, it never would happen war.


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## ziaulislam

RoadAmerica said:


> Haha another forever war fanboy.
> So how exactly will Russia shell across the river when Ukraine has the range advantage with HIMARS?


I agree Russia has no arterllery or MRLS only ukriane has.. Russia re like Taliban they don't have any weapons

≠=====


seems Russia goal is to take donbass... ironically it would have done much better if it had stick to it's original plan


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## sammuel

Vergennes said:


> Unconfirmed but huge if true
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591855236356112384



How would they get there ?

~


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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Except Ukrainian doesn't give 2 crap about Dugin. The guy is a nobody outside of Russia and most Ukrainian doesn't even know he exist. If Ukrainian SBU are inside Russia they will be targeting more important individuals than Dugin. This is like if a country assassinate Jordan Peterson.
> 
> It's more likely the Russian did it. Because of internal powerplay.


In an intelligence op stand point. 

There are nothing to gain for the Russian partisan to hit that guy, this is a symbolic target, and if they can hit him, they would be able to hit more useful secondary target, then why him?

On the other hand, this op have "See what I can do" reason behind it, I mean if this is a sustained operation then we would have heard another assassination by the same group or similar Russian partisan group, but they are all but disappeared after this. I mean, it could be Russian clamping up and eliminate those fractions, but that remain unlikely. This is more or less a terror campaign, and you need subsequent operation to be a campaign.....It cannot be just one off. 

More likely than not that announcement or taking of responsibility are a shell for Ukrainian, Ukrainian created that group to keep the terror up, which they can't do on the front. 

But then am I 100% sure? No, nobody is, and I will just leave it at that..

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## gambit

I read a joke that Russian tank turrets have more flight hours than the Russian Air Force.

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> China can't even manage a city of hundreds thousands people let alone 1billions.
> 
> Im not comparing china to the US im comparing china with poorer 3rd world country like Vietnam & Cambodia. Which for some reason are more efficient with the handling of covid than china. Even recording less death & infection per capita compared to china. Heck even India are better at handling it than china.
> 
> Wagner being Wagner as usual.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591860842936795137
> 
> LOL if true the Russian can kiss keeping crimea goodbye.



Again, i dont want to make this a covid thread, but comparing managing 1. 4bil people to small states is just not fair. Still doesn't justify how US had 1 mil ddead. I do suspect Cambodia abd Vietnma is under reporting, who knows. Lol



LeGenD said:


> Russia contemplated the possibility of using tactical nukes or dirty bombs in Ukraine. But US informed Putin that *it* will intervene and finish the job of destroying Russian forces stationed inside Ukraine and around Ukraine in response.
> 
> Putin realized the stakes and shot down the proposal.
> 
> Russians are found to be pragmatic when it comes to nuclear option. They do not want to go this far in clashes involving NATO. Good for mankind.
> 
> Russians have won wars before. But there is no guarantee that they will succeed in every front that they might choose to open.
> 
> Wars suck, bro. Unfortunately, crackheads pop up from time to time and ruin many lives with bad decisions.


Yup informed, and you think Russia cannot retaliate? It will be a WW3. US had been warning informing sabre rattling since day one. But still not a single US troop is there. America stronk and people are afraid? Hahahhaha. First start putting some boots on the ground, don't just use mouth powr like the Indians.



RoadAmerica said:


> 😂 Ukraine is toast?
> Russia hasn’t won a battle in months no amount of Chinese “space assets” help would change that. Still waiting for China to supply anything to Russia
> Get a grip on reality


Russia lacks precision guidance and ISR, that's their main weakness. After the Soviets fell, their GLONASS system rust2d away, and ffs only 3 spysats? Reality is Russia still owns alot of territory the size of 2 European countries. Take it back then talk. Why did you think Biden had to ask China noy to supply arms? We start pumping intel and open up the precision navigation, Ukraine is toasts.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591924749411966978
Russian losses now exceed 7,900

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, NOVEMBER 13​Nov 13, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 13
Frederick W. Kagan
November 13, 3:30 pm ET
Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.*​*ISW is publishing an abbreviated campaign update today, November 13. This report discusses the likely evolution of the war following Ukraine’s operational success in regaining control of western Kherson Oblast. The Russians are not setting conditions for a relaxation of hostilities for the rest of the fall and into the winter but rather are launching a new offensive in Donetsk Oblast. The Ukrainians will likely use combat power recouped from the liberation of western Kherson to reinforce their ongoing counter-offensive in Luhansk Oblast or to open a new counter-offensive drive elsewhere. This is not the time to slow down aid or press for ceasefires or negotiations, but rather the time to help Ukraine take advantage of its momentum in conditions that favor Kyiv rather than Moscow.
Ukraine has won an important victory in the campaign that liberated western Kherson Oblast, culminating in the withdrawal of Russian forces completed on November 11.[1] *Russian President Vladimir Putin had been determined to hold this key terrain, possession of which would have allowed him to renew his invasion of unoccupied Ukraine from positions on the west bank of the Dnipro River. That consideration was likely more important in Putin‘s calculations than the symbolic value of retaining the only oblast capital his forces had seized since February 24, 2022. (Russia had already taken Luhansk City and Donetsk City in its 2014-2015 invasion.) Putin had committed substantial Russian forces to the defense of western Kherson, including many of the remaining elite airborne units available to the Russian military.[2] He also committed reinforcements generated by the partial mobilization of reservists he had ordered on September 21.[3] Those forces had dug in and fought hard to hold their ground, taking many losses. Ukraine’s success despite this Russian determination and allocation of scarce elite units is in many respects even more impressive than its victory in Kharkiv Oblast in mid-September.[4]
*Ukraine’s success resulted in large part from the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ (UAF’s) innovative use of the US-provided HIMARS precision rocket system to disrupt Russian supply lines. *The HIMARS munitions the US has given Ukraine are not suitable for destroying bridges—their warheads are too small and are not optimized for such strikes. The UAF developed a tactic to work around that limitation by conducting multiple precision strikes across the key Antonivskiy Bridge and the road that ran atop the Kakhovka Dam in such a way as to break the roadways in a line across them, rendering them unusable without actually destroying the bridges’ infrastructure (or badly damaging the dam).[5] The UAF continued to strike the bridges as the Russians sought to repair them, targeting the repair equipment as well as the roadways until the Russians finally gave up. The Russians attempted to construct a pontoon bridge under the Antonivskiy Bridge as a mitigation, but the UAF attacked that effort as well, causing the Russians to abandon it.[6] The Russians were left at the end with barges ferrying supplies, equipment, and reinforcements from the east to the west bank.[7] The UAF attacked the barges and landing areas as well, but the ferry system was in any case insufficient to supply the 20,000-some Russian mechanized troops trying to hold their lodgment on the western bank of the river.[8] 
It was clear that the Russians would be unable to defend that lodgment by the time Russian Army General Sergey Surovikin took command of the Russian invasion of Ukraine on October 8.[9] Surovikin signaled his intention to withdraw from western Kherson almost immediately and likely began setting conditions to retreat within a couple of weeks.[10] It is not clear whether Putin authorized Surovikin to abandon western Kherson fully at that time or whether Surovikin had to continue working to persuade Putin of the hopelessness of any effort to hold on in western Kherson. However that may be, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu met with Surovikin on November 9 in a staged, public setting and ordered him to withdraw, which Surovikin promptly did.[11]
*Putin likely elevated Surovikin and let him withdraw from western Kherson on condition that he take the rest of Donetsk Oblast using Russian forces recouped from western Kherson as well as newly-arriving mobilized servicemen.*[12] This observation offered by Andriy Zagorodnyuk, chairman of the Ukrainian Center of Defense Strategies, is the likeliest explanation for the resumption in the intensity of Russian offensive operations first around Bakhmut and then to the southwest around the Vuhledar area that began on October 28.[13] These offensive efforts otherwise make little operational sense. They are far from operationally significant locations apart from Bakhmut and were launched during a difficult muddy time by inadequately prepared mobilized servicemen before Russian commanders in the area had amassed enough combat power for decisive operations.[14] Surovikin likely ordered them to start when they did as an earnest sign of his commitment to Putin.
*Russian offensive operations in Donetsk Oblast will intensify in the coming weeks as additional mobilized servicemen arrive along with forces withdrawn from western Kherson. *Ukrainian forces in the area will find themselves hard-pressed, and Kyiv will very likely have to divert troops to defend against these renewed Russian offensives. The Russians are not likely to make operationally significant gains despite their renewed efforts, although they could conceivably take Bakhmut over time at enormous cost. Russian mobilized servicemen have shown themselves to be inadequately trained, poorly equipped, and very reluctant to fight.[15] They are not arriving in cohesive units but rather are being sent largely as individual or small unit replacements to units that have been fighting without rest for nine months, have suffered devastating losses in men and equipment, and are largely demoralized themselves.
Russian forces operating in Donetsk Oblast include conventional units of the regular Russian Armed Forces, mobilized servicemen, Wagner Private Military Company troops, BARS (Russian volunteer reserve) formations, militia units from the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics, soldiers from Ramzan Kadyrov’s Chechen units, and volunteer battalions.[16] This bizarre congeries of combat forces will have considerably less effective combat power than would a grouping of regular units of similar size. It is extremely unlikely that Surovikin will be able to forge it into a force able to conduct large-scale offensive mechanized maneuver warfare, particularly since he is not even taking (or being allowed to take) the time to build a coherent strike force before hurling it into the attack. This weird mix of forces will likely make some gains through sheer weight of numbers, but Ukrainian defenders, likely reinforced, will most probably force it to a halt over the next few months not far from its starting points.
*Ukraine will also likely recoup combat power from western Kherson and redeploy it to other areas for both defensive and counter-offensive operations. *The UAF could conceivably try to chase the Russians across the Dnipro River at various points but is unlikely to do so because the logistics of supporting a Ukrainian lodgment on the eastern bank are very daunting. The UAF is therefore more likely to consolidate its control of the western bank, leave enough force to deter any Russian attempt to cross the river again, and reallocate forces to other areas. The Russian offensive in Donetsk Oblast will likely require the UAF to divert some forces to defend in that area, but the UAF will likely send at least part of the recouped combat power either to reinforce its ongoing counter-offensive in Luhansk Oblast or to open another counter-offensive somewhere else (we will not speculate about where that might be).
*Ukrainian forces have continued to make limited gains in Luhansk Oblast and will likely be able to make more gains if they are reinforced by troops from western Kherson. *The Russians are also reinforcing their defensive positions in Luhansk Oblast, to be sure, but the UAF has been grinding forward nevertheless, and there is no reason to forecast that the ill-trained, ill-equipped, and low-morale Russian reservists will be able to stop Ukrainian troops, buoyed by their victories, from advancing.
*A cessation or prolonged slowing of combat operations over the next few months is therefore very unlikely. *The Russians are emphatically not attempting to establish and strengthen defensive positions all along the line but are rather renewing offensive operations in Donetsk Oblast.[17] The Ukrainians will almost certainly continue their counter-offensive operations already underway. Both sides are already fighting in very muddy conditions. They will not likely stop fighting when winter freezes the ground and makes it even more conducive to large-scale mechanized maneuver warfare. *Combat is more likely to intensify than to slacken as temperatures drop.
Any attempt at a ceasefire or cessation of hostilities at this time would overwhelmingly favor Russia. *Putin should desire such a ceasefire in his own interest. He should recognize that he needs to give his forces time to recover and allow the reservists flowing into the theater time to integrate into their units, train up, and prepare for serious combat. He should want to stop the Ukrainians from capitalizing on the emotional lift of their recent victories. The fact that Putin continues to whip his generals to offensives in these circumstances is thus a grave error from a military perspective. It likely results from whatever psychological factors led Putin to order the invasion in the first place but also increasingly from Putin’s need to show his toughness to the hardline faction led, at least in public, by Wagner financier Yevgeny Prigozhin. Putin is unlikely to be willing to seek a ceasefire, therefore, unless it is accompanied by tremendous Ukrainian or international concessions.
*Napoleon famously quipped: Never interrupt your enemy whilst he is in the midst of making a mistake. That aphorism has never been truer—Ukraine and its backers should take advantage of Putin’s error by continuing to press the counter-offensive in circumstances far more favorable to Kyiv than to Moscow.
Ukraine has by no means liberated the minimum territory essential to its future security and economic survival even with the victory in western Kherson, finally. *The city of Melitopol and surrounding areas, the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, land on the east bank of the lower Dnipro River, and territory in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts are all vital terrain for Ukraine, as ISW has previously argued.[18] Discussions about the future of Crimea and other Ukrainian lands illegally occupied by Russia after 2014 are premature. Ukraine must liberate tens of thousands of square kilometers short of those areas if it is to be able to defend itself against future Russian attacks and reestablish a functional economy.
*Ukrainians and the West must bend every effort to enabling the liberation of those lands as rapidly as possible before worrying about what lies beyond them. Momentum is an important factor in war. Ukraine has it now. Kyiv and its partners must make the most of it.*


​*Key inflections in ongoing military operations on November 13:*

*Wagner Group Financer Yevgeny Prigozhin asked the Russian Prosecutor General’s Office to open a case against St. Petersburg Governor Alexander Beglov for high treason amid viral footage of Wagner forces murdering one of their own.[19] Prigozhin and Russian nationalist milbloggers largely supported the murder of the alleged traitor.[20]*
*The Russian military grouping stationed in Belarus continues to generate social tensions among Belarusians.[21]*
*Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations in the direction of Kreminna and Svatove.[22]*
*Ukrainian forces continued to consolidate control over the right bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast.[23] Ukrainian forces struck a Russian military base in Chaplynka, Kherson Oblast, 50km south of Beryslav on the eastern bank of the Dnipro.[24]*
*Russian forces continued to conduct offensive operations in the directions of Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and Vuhledar.[25] The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed that Russian forces captured Mayorsk, southeast of Bakhmut.[26]*
*Russian forces continued routine indirect fire against frontline settlements in Zaporizhia and Dnipropetrovsk oblasts.[27] Russian forces struck Zaporizhzhia City with an Iskander missile.[28]*
*Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov announced that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the demobilization of mobilized students in Russian-occupied Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts, likely as part of an ongoing effort to integrate proxy forces into the Russian Armed Forces.[29]*
*Russian forces and occupation officials are forcibly mobilizing men in Russian-occupied Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast, and forcing them to construct trenches and defensive fortifications in the city.[30]*
*Ukrainian officials stated that Russian forces are withdrawing from the left bank of the Dnipro River and concentrating forces and equipment in Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast, and Mariupol, Donetsk Oblast.[31]*
*Russian President Vladimir Putin proposed an amendment to a draft law that would allow Russian officials to revoke Russian citizenship for disseminating “false” information about the Russian military, participating in extremist or undesirable organizations, or calling for violations of Russian “territorial integrity.”[32]*













[1] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[2] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[3] http://en dot kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69390
[4] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[5] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[6] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[7] https://isw.pub/Rus101922 ; https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[8] https://isw.pub/RusCampaignSept9
[9] https://****/mod_russia/17359
[10] https://isw.pub/RusCampaignOct19
[11] https://tass dot ru/armiya-i-opk/16283583; https://tass dot ru/armiya-i-opk/16283573
[12] https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/battle-of-kherson-rus...
[13] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[14] https://isw.pub/UkrWar110422 ; https://isw.pub/UkrWar110322
[15] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...; https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...; https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[16] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-volunteer-units-an...; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[17] https://isw.pub/UkrWar110422
[18] https://isw.pub/RusCampaignOct16
[19]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591675228329058304 https://****/NordwindZ/24; https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1570648427545128960; 



; https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1591713928157233152; 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591709953282244611; https://****/concordgroup_official/25
[20] https://****/grey_zone/15773; https://****/brussinf/5230; https://****/grey_zone/15774; https://****/concordgroup_official/27; https://****/vysokygovorit/9967; https://****/grey_zone/15767; https://****/grey_zone/15769; https://****/grey_zone/15770; https://****/grey_zone/15773; https://****/brussinf/5230; https://****/grey_zone/15774; https://****/concordgroup_official/27
[21]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02YCSX87CsqK2udvjM2z...
[22] https://****/mod_russia/21716 ; https://****/boris_rozhin/70153 ; https://****/vysokygovorit/9972 ; https://****/vysokygovorit/9969
[23]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid08gdEhBLPwrrJVfPJF9C...; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02YCSX87CsqK2udvjM2z...;




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1930029017201206




;
[24]https://www.facebook.com/sergey.khlan/posts/pfbid0f1tfjBzxtha6tZ5MWBJLhD...; https://****/hueviyherson/29023; https://****/hueviyherson/29043; https://****/mod_russia/21717
[25]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02YCSX87CsqK2udvjM2z... ; https://www.facebook.com/easternforces/posts/pfbid0ik8MgUNj4jKXZyxjMsNNB...
[26] https://****/mod_russia/21716
[27]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid08gdEhBLPwrrJVfPJF9C...; https://www.facebook.com/easternforces/posts/pfbid0ik8MgUNj4jKXZyxjMsNNB...; https://****/zoda_gov_ua/14645; https://****/zoda_gov_ua/14640;




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1930029017201206




; https://****/vilkul/2249
[28]https://www.facebook.com/easternforces/posts/pfbid0ik8MgUNj4jKXZyxjMsNNB...
[29] https://ria dot ru/20221113/demobilizatsiya-1831176175.html
[30] https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/11/13/na-zaporizhzhi-okupanty-skladayut-spysky-cholovikiv-dlya-prymusovoyi-praczi/
[31]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid08gdEhBLPwrrJVfPJF9C...; https://****/andriyshTime/4348;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591561017741705217[32] https://www.kommersant dot ru/doc/5666902

Tags​Ukraine Project
File Attachments: 



Donetsk Battle Map Draft November 13, 2022.png



DraftUkraineCoTMapNovember13,2022.png



Kharkiv Battle Map Draft November 13, 2022.png



Kherson and Mykolaiv Battle Map Draft November 13, 2022.png



TotalLiberatedTerritoryAO1112.png



Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 13, 2022.pdf


----------



## RoadAmerica

Han Patriot said:


> Again, i dont want to make this a covid thread, but comparing managing 1. 4bil people to small states is just not fair. Still doesn't justify how US had 1 mil ddead. I do suspect Cambodia abd Vietnma is under reporting, who knows. Lol
> 
> 
> Yup informed, and you think Russia cannot retaliate? It will be a WW3. US had been warning informing sabre rattling since day one. But still not a single US troop is there. America stronk and people are afraid? Hahahhaha. First start putting some boots on the ground, don't just use mouth powr like the Indians.
> 
> 
> Russia lacks precision guidance and ISR, that's their main weakness. After the Soviets fell, their GLONASS system rust2d away, and ffs only 3 spysats? Reality is Russia still owns alot of territory the size of 2 European countries. Take it back then talk. Why did you think Biden had to ask China noy to supply arms? We start pumping intel and open up the precision navigation, Ukraine is toasts.


Sure thing they just need Intel, come on man.
The Russian army has been hollowed out and much of their weapons expended or destroyed but Intel will turn the tide.
Oh and if it’s so easy why doesn’t China do it, I thought they had a defense pact?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Han Patriot

RoadAmerica said:


> Sure thing they just need Intel, come on man.
> The Russian army has been hollowed out and much of their weapons expended or destroyed but Intel will turn the tide.
> Oh and if it’s so easy why doesn’t China do it, I thought they had a defense pact?


That's the problem, we are officially neutral and there isnt a defense pact, China is just naively too peaceful, if NATO can supply Ukraine, China can also supply Russia. We were already labelled as evil no matter what we do, might as well go all in and help the Russians. US does not want to exist with China as a near peer, they want to destroy China, and fanboys here think we are the evil one
Lol

I suggest you read about the Yaogan and Gaofen system. It is the worlds largest surveillance network.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> Again, i dont want to make this a covid thread, but comparing managing 1. 4bil people to small states is just not fair. Still doesn't justify how US had 1 mil ddead. I do suspect Cambodia abd Vietnma is under reporting, who knows. Lol
> 
> 
> Yup informed, and you think Russia cannot retaliate? It will be a WW3. US had been warning informing sabre rattling since day one. But still not a single US troop is there. America stronk and people are afraid? Hahahhaha. First start putting some boots on the ground, don't just use mouth powr like the Indians.
> 
> 
> Russia lacks precision guidance and ISR, that's their main weakness. After the Soviets fell, their GLONASS system rust2d away, and ffs only 3 spysats? Reality is Russia still owns alot of territory the size of 2 European countries. Take it back then talk. Why did you think Biden had to ask China noy to supply arms? We start pumping intel and open up the precision navigation, Ukraine is toasts.



You accuse Cambodia & Vietnam for underreporting without evidence but not China? Hmmm.... 

Also LOL if the war in Ukraine tells us anything is that WW3 against the Russian will be a cakewalk. I say bring it on. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591972561633660928


Han Patriot said:


> That's the problem, we are officially neutral and there isnt a defense pact, China is just naively too peaceful, if NATO can supply Ukraine, China can also supply Russia. We were already labelled as evil no matter what we do, might as well go all in and help the Russians. US does not want to exist with China as a near peer, they want to destroy China, and fanboys here think we are the evil one
> Lol
> 
> I suggest you read about the Yaogan and Gaofen system. It is the worlds largest surveillance network.


Your neighbors doesn't want you to exist either not just the US. Your country are no different than Russia. Also the US didn't just use satellites they also fly spy planes near & inside Ukraine to give full time analysis to the Ukrainian. Sinking of Moskva & pretty much everything else were atributed to western Intel gathering.

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## RescueRanger

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You accuse Cambodia & Vietnam for underreporting without evidence but not China? Hmmm....
> 
> Also LOL if the war in Ukraine tells us anything is that WW3 against the Russian will be a cakewalk. I say bring it on.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591972561633660928
> 
> Your neighbors doesn't want you to exist either not just the US. Your country are no different than Russia. Also the US didn't just use satellites they also fly spy planes near & inside Ukraine to give full time analysis to the Ukrainian. Sinking of Moskva & pretty much everything else were atributed to western Intel gathering.


Russia is Kaput. I said this in the original thread on page 3/4. This will be Putin’s greatest mistake.

And I was chided by some saying “Putin great leader” “Putin not insane” “calculated risks”

😂🤣😂

Calculated risks my arse.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

thetutle said:


> What kind of bombs are these that dont seek to kill anyone. They are all moaning and running. Why not makes projectiles that kill the enemy?


Limitations of the drones on how much explosive power they can carry. But I will say that many have been either killed or wounded by the grenades or small mortars. There are drones currently in existence that can carry hundreds of pounds of payload that can be useful to carry larger mortars like 120mm versions. But at the same time they are bigger and easier to be spotted. But thats not deterring the Ukrainians from using something similar with large drones to carry multiple mortars or grenades but are limited in range currently. I've seen heavy cargo drones that can carry hundreds of pounds and go from 100 to 200km range or more.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591878360342605825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591839587043004417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591843918530121728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592042889403846657


----------



## aviator_fan

jhungary said:


> lol, I don't know why people keep indulge in childish people here.
> 
> You are talking about a guy who said this
> 
> View attachment 896255
> 
> 
> is more defendable than this
> 
> View attachment 896256
> 
> 
> That said all I need to know about how much he knows about war.......Talking to him on these issue is going to be a giant waste of time.


Where he gets his credibility from is using 'lol' across his sentences. That is what you should take seriously when there is a war going on and people put 'lols'

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Again, i dont want to make this a covid thread, but comparing managing 1. 4bil people to small states is just not fair. Still doesn't justify how US had 1 mil ddead. I do suspect Cambodia abd Vietnma is under reporting, who knows. Lol
> 
> 
> Yup informed, and you think Russia cannot retaliate? It will be a WW3. US had been warning informing sabre rattling since day one. But still not a single US troop is there. America stronk and people are afraid? Hahahhaha. First start putting some boots on the ground, don't just use mouth powr like the Indians.
> 
> 
> Russia lacks precision guidance and ISR, that's their main weakness. After the Soviets fell, their GLONASS system rust2d away, and ffs only 3 spysats? Reality is Russia still owns alot of territory the size of 2 European countries. Take it back then talk. Why did you think Biden had to ask China noy to supply arms? We start pumping intel and open up the precision navigation, Ukraine is toasts.


90% of 1 million dead were because there was no vaccine. More obese elderly population and diabetes. Bad sidefeccts of prosperity. The other is a consequence of free choice: people not following common sense advice and choosing to get it.

You should be comparing death rate of post-vaccine of China and US. US would have also had smaller deaths if it was today shut down like China is and put entire cities under lockdown. Not only bad economically, but also not possible in a democracy to flag somebody on an app and tell them to quarantine.


----------



## LeGenD

Han Patriot said:


> Yup informed, and you think Russia cannot retaliate? It will be a WW3. US had been warning informing sabre rattling since day one. But still not a single US troop is there. America stronk and people are afraid? Hahahhaha. First start putting some boots on the ground, don't just use mouth powr like the Indians.


Do you *desire* nuclear war?

US launched Operation Cyclone to arm and train the so-called Mujahideen to fight and push USSR out from Afghanistan: this strategy worked. US have adopted similar model to arm and train Ukranian forces to fight and push Russia out from Ukraine.

There is no need for US to be directly involved in a war between Russia and another country when US can influence its outcome through indirect methods.

Obama administration ignored Russian invasion and annexation of parts of Georgia. Obama administration also accommodated Russian mission in Syria. People think that Donald Trump was courting Vladimir Putin, I would say that Barack Obama was also courting Putin.

But US has its RED LINES. The war in Ukraine is too close to NATO for the American Deep State to ignore it. Joe Biden has shown more spine than other American Presidents in terms of confronting Russian bear in decades.

It looks like you are in disbelief about Biden's tough response to Russian nuclear sabre-rattling for Ukraine. Not my problem. Putin knows better.

Reactions: Like Like:
6 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You accuse Cambodia & Vietnam for underreporting without evidence but not China? Hmmm....
> 
> Also LOL if the war in Ukraine tells us anything is that WW3 against the Russian will be a cakewalk. I say bring it on.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591972561633660928
> 
> Your neighbors doesn't want you to exist either not just the US. Your country are no different than Russia. Also the US didn't just use satellites they also fly spy planes near & inside Ukraine to give full time analysis to the Ukrainian. Sinking of Moskva & pretty much everything else were atributed to western Intel gathering.


Again i think i will stop talking about covid now. What does Vietnam or Cambodia got to do with 1 mil dead yanks? Congrats to them both although I guess their lack of proper diagnostics might not have bren giving an accurate picture.

Btw 4mil dead yindoos is definitely the most extreme

Alot of countries hate US too, but i don't think we want to annihilate them. Indians have a perennial hatred because you lost a war, just let go okay. Hahhahha



aviator_fan said:


> 90% of 1 million dead were because there was no vaccine. More obese elderly population and diabetes. Bad sidefeccts of prosperity. The other is a consequence of free choice: people not following common sense advice and choosing to get it.
> 
> You should be comparing death rate of post-vaccine of China and US. US would have also had smaller deaths if it was today shut down like China is and put entire cities under lockdown. Not only bad economically, but also not possible in a democracy to flag somebody on an app and tell them to quarantine.


Dude stop talking about covid, i can go on and on about the incompetence of the US, 500 ppl are still dying daily in the states, but of course, if it's not reported in the msm, fanboys like you are oblivious.



LeGenD said:


> Do you *desire* nuclear war?
> 
> US launched Operation Cyclone to arm and train the so-called Mujahideen to fight and push USSR out from Afghanistan: this strategy worked. US have adopted similar model to arm and train Ukranian forces to fight and push Russia out from Ukraine.
> 
> There is no need for US to be directly involved in a war between Russia and another country when US can influence its outcome through indirect methods.
> 
> Obama administration ignored Russian invasion and annexation of parts of Georgia. Obama administration also accommodated Russian mission in Syria. People think that Donald Trump was courting Vladimir Putin, I would say that Barack Obama was also courting Putin.
> 
> But US has its RED LINES. The war in Ukraine is too close to NATO for the American Deep State to ignore it. Joe Biden has shown more spine than other American Presidents in terms of confronting Russian bear in decades.
> 
> It looks like you are in disbelief about Biden's tough response to Russian nuclear sabre-rattling for Ukraine. Not my problem.


I don't but i think this will happen because of Western arrogance. People seems to forget the source of this conflict.

The red line is pretty simple, we don't bomb you and you don't bomb us. US is not the king here mate, they are many countries with the sane level of destructive power. That's the reason NATO is mostly doing shouting power while giving the weapons for the Ukrainian to fight.


----------



## aviator_fan

RescueRanger said:


> Russia is Kaput. I said this in the original thread on page 3/4. This will be Putin’s greatest mistake.
> 
> And I was chided by some saying “Putin great leader” “Putin not insane” “calculated risks”
> 
> 😂🤣😂
> 
> Calculated risks my arse.


He fell for the same self created trap as Saddam, Hitler, Qaddafi: a professional army that was intimidated and out of fear gave incorrect military advice, that the guy acted on and then got his arse handed to him. Lessons that despots should have 2 advisers that don't kiss butt and give them honest advice. Fortunately, despots don't learn from each other so end up in the same self created trap when they rule out of fear

From a Fin Times article a few days ago. Are EMPs weaponized to operate out independently of a nuke? I suppose if they can fry Ukraninans , NATO can also retaliate without the kinetic impact people casualties (and plausable deniability) of a nuke and may be whats keeping Russians at bay ? ​​Putin’s nuclear threats may hint at an electromagnetic pulse strike​
Roger Pardo-Maurer
So far, Russia’s threats of escalation against Ukraine have been largely interpreted as a veiled reference to the use of traditional nuclear weapons. But there is another tool which Vladimir Putin may be considering: a tactical electromagnetic pulse, or EMP, strike. These weapons — designed to create a powerful pulse of energy which short-circuits electrical equipment such as computers, generators, satellites, radios, radar receivers and traffic lights — could disable Ukraine’s military and civilian infrastructure at a stroke and leave the country without light, heat, communications or transport.
EMP attacks have been explained, and clamoured for, on Russian state TV talk shows. A Russian colonel has demonstrated on air, with maps and charts, how such a blast over the Baltic Sea might work. It may be that Putin and his generals have been warning us about this possibility all along, with their enigmatic threats to unleash unspecified “military-technical measures”.
A tactical nuclear weapon used to create an explosion would most likely be ineffective against the mobile, dispersed combination of guerrilla and conventional warfare that Ukrainians are deploying. But the use of a nuclear weapon for electromagnetic warfare is a different matter. The signature of this type of attack would not be a fireball and mushroom cloud but a weird electric blue medusa orb pulsing directly overhead, followed by silence. At that altitude, the sound will not carry.
A relatively small nuclear EMP, easily deployed at high altitude by Russia’s hypersonic Zircon cruise missiles, might not destroy any buildings or kill anybody. But it could permanently disable electrical circuits over thousands of square miles of Ukrainian territory. Virtually all the defence equipment sent by Nato allies to Ukraine — such as radios, GPS navigation and aerial drones — are dependent on electronics, if not for operations, then for deployment, maintenance and integration. The lingering electromagnetic effects of a strike could destroy 90 per cent of the satellites over the afflicted zone within three months. However, it is likely that Russian information operations on the ground would also be affected.
The US and its allies are by no means oblivious to the dangers of an EMP, and most military equipment has a degree of inbuilt defence against this eventuality. But a strike would create a new battlespace that negates the superiority of our information systems. We have not war-gamed this properly.
In Kherson, for instance, a tactical EMP could disable the systems that operate the region’s dams, clog highways and bridges with miles of disabled vehicles and leave the civilian population struggling for food and heat. In the aftermath of a successful EMP strike, Ukraine would have to pause fighting to restock its ruined arsenal. Putin could meanwhile rebuild and resupply his forces and seize the newly depopulated areas during a spring offensive.
What is perhaps most concerning is that Russia and Nato have such different approaches to these weapons. Under Russian military doctrine, EMP strikes are a branch of information, cyber and electronic warfare rather than nuclear warfare. This lowers the bar and may render EMPs even more tempting to Putin’s beleaguered generals.
So, what next? First, we must warn Russia that an EMP strike against Ukraine, even if localised, would cross the nuclear threshold and trigger a collective defence response from Nato. The unpredictable effects of spillover on the atmosphere, the environment, satellites and downwind populations should suffice as a rationale for invoking Article Five (Nato’s collective defence clause).
Second, we should help the Ukrainian military prepare. An EMP strike is survivable. We should support them in conducting live EMP drills with the participation of the civilian authorities. The Ukrainian people need to be educated about how to mitigate and overcome such an attack, including by stocking up on analogue radios, flashlights and batteries. Preparation, fortitude, ingenuity and self-reliance are already qualities with which Ukrainians have distinguished themselves in this war.
Finally, we must rethink our objectives. If Putin is contemplating the use of a tactical EMP, then what is at stake is not just Ukraine’s liberty but the future of warfare. If we yield to the Kremlin’s nuclear blackmail, there is a risk other countries will follow its lead: China and North Korea already have EMP capabilities. The situation in Ukraine offers a keyhole glimpse to a potentially more dangerous and uncertain future. We cannot afford to lose this fight

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

LeGenD said:


> Do you *desire* nuclear war?
> 
> US launched Operation Cyclone to arm and train the so-called Mujahideen to fight and push USSR out from Afghanistan: this strategy worked. US have adopted similar model to arm and train Ukranian forces to fight and push Russia out from Ukraine.
> 
> There is no need for US to be directly involved in a war between Russia and another country when US can influence its outcome through indirect methods.
> 
> Obama administration ignored Russian invasion and annexation of parts of Georgia. Obama administration also accommodated Russian mission in Syria. People think that Donald Trump was courting Vladimir Putin, I would say that Barack Obama was also courting Putin.
> 
> But US has its RED LINES. The war in Ukraine is too close to NATO for the American Deep State to ignore it. Joe Biden has shown more spine than other American Presidents in terms of confronting Russian bear in decades.
> 
> It looks like you are in disbelief about Biden's tough response to Russian nuclear sabre-rattling for Ukraine. Not my problem. Putin knows better.


I remember that Bush (the warmonger that went everywehre) even was at peace with Putin and said 'he peered into his soul'. This was 4 years after Economist had written in detail about how Putin will be playing the long game and has bigger goals that the US and NATO are underestimating him



Han Patriot said:


> Dude stop talking about covid, i can go on and on about the incompetence of the US, 500 ppl are still dying daily in the states, but of course, if it's not reported in the msm, fanboys like you are oblivious.


I didn't start the COVID thread you did by attacking that 1M Americans were killed. Look under the consipiracy of your own country in hiding the facts from Wuhan for 4 months that led to this destruction. And daily incompetence in shutting down entire cities of 10M while factory workers escape from plants. Height of incompetence is to have a lower GDP growth rate than anybody else in Asia. China needs to get to its full potential and stop acting like a sissi state and keeping its population sheltered. China needs to compete with India on its growth trajectory. Right now GDP growth is slightly higher than US. It needs to be highest in the world

When you put your head in the sand, like your Govt, you will be called on it with facts. If you don't wish to be distracted than stop bringing in useless conversations into the thread. You said another one about 'pension funds losing money' and all that. It is becoming other members fulltime job to educate you (we will do it one Chinese at a time about how the economy works and how inflation works. Not everything is a doing of the invasion. Fortunately most CHinese are exceptional and don't need this education, but you run out of military facts so you come with propoganda (Trump word of alternate facts) .

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Wow Wow:
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## LeGenD

aviator_fan said:


> He fell for the same self created trap as Saddam, Hitler, Qaddafi: a professional army that was intimidated and out of fear gave incorrect military advice, that the guy acted on and then got his arse handed to him. Lessons that despots should have 2 advisers that don't kiss butt and give them honest advice. Fortunately, despots don't learn from each other so end up in the same self created trap when they rule out of fear
> 
> From a Fin Times article a few days ago. Are EMPs weaponized to operate out independently of a nuke? I suppose if they can fry Ukraninans , NATO can also retaliate without the kinetic impact people casualties (and plausable deniability) of a nuke and may be whats keeping Russians at bay ? ​​Putin’s nuclear threats may hint at an electromagnetic pulse strike​
> Roger Pardo-Maurer
> So far, Russia’s threats of escalation against Ukraine have been largely interpreted as a veiled reference to the use of traditional nuclear weapons. But there is another tool which Vladimir Putin may be considering: a tactical electromagnetic pulse, or EMP, strike. These weapons — designed to create a powerful pulse of energy which short-circuits electrical equipment such as computers, generators, satellites, radios, radar receivers and traffic lights — could disable Ukraine’s military and civilian infrastructure at a stroke and leave the country without light, heat, communications or transport.
> EMP attacks have been explained, and clamoured for, on Russian state TV talk shows. A Russian colonel has demonstrated on air, with maps and charts, how such a blast over the Baltic Sea might work. It may be that Putin and his generals have been warning us about this possibility all along, with their enigmatic threats to unleash unspecified “military-technical measures”.
> A tactical nuclear weapon used to create an explosion would most likely be ineffective against the mobile, dispersed combination of guerrilla and conventional warfare that Ukrainians are deploying. But the use of a nuclear weapon for electromagnetic warfare is a different matter. The signature of this type of attack would not be a fireball and mushroom cloud but a weird electric blue medusa orb pulsing directly overhead, followed by silence. At that altitude, the sound will not carry.
> A relatively small nuclear EMP, easily deployed at high altitude by Russia’s hypersonic Zircon cruise missiles, might not destroy any buildings or kill anybody. But it could permanently disable electrical circuits over thousands of square miles of Ukrainian territory. Virtually all the defence equipment sent by Nato allies to Ukraine — such as radios, GPS navigation and aerial drones — are dependent on electronics, if not for operations, then for deployment, maintenance and integration. The lingering electromagnetic effects of a strike could destroy 90 per cent of the satellites over the afflicted zone within three months. However, it is likely that Russian information operations on the ground would also be affected.
> The US and its allies are by no means oblivious to the dangers of an EMP, and most military equipment has a degree of inbuilt defence against this eventuality. But a strike would create a new battlespace that negates the superiority of our information systems. We have not war-gamed this properly.
> In Kherson, for instance, a tactical EMP could disable the systems that operate the region’s dams, clog highways and bridges with miles of disabled vehicles and leave the civilian population struggling for food and heat. In the aftermath of a successful EMP strike, Ukraine would have to pause fighting to restock its ruined arsenal. Putin could meanwhile rebuild and resupply his forces and seize the newly depopulated areas during a spring offensive.
> What is perhaps most concerning is that Russia and Nato have such different approaches to these weapons. Under Russian military doctrine, EMP strikes are a branch of information, cyber and electronic warfare rather than nuclear warfare. This lowers the bar and may render EMPs even more tempting to Putin’s beleaguered generals.
> So, what next? First, we must warn Russia that an EMP strike against Ukraine, even if localised, would cross the nuclear threshold and trigger a collective defence response from Nato. The unpredictable effects of spillover on the atmosphere, the environment, satellites and downwind populations should suffice as a rationale for invoking Article Five (Nato’s collective defence clause).
> Second, we should help the Ukrainian military prepare. An EMP strike is survivable. We should support them in conducting live EMP drills with the participation of the civilian authorities. The Ukrainian people need to be educated about how to mitigate and overcome such an attack, including by stocking up on analogue radios, flashlights and batteries. Preparation, fortitude, ingenuity and self-reliance are already qualities with which Ukrainians have distinguished themselves in this war.
> Finally, we must rethink our objectives. If Putin is contemplating the use of a tactical EMP, then what is at stake is not just Ukraine’s liberty but the future of warfare. If we yield to the Kremlin’s nuclear blackmail, there is a risk other countries will follow its lead: China and North Korea already have EMP capabilities. The situation in Ukraine offers a keyhole glimpse to a potentially more dangerous and uncertain future. We cannot afford to lose this fight



I recall one Russian officer who argued that invasion of Ukraine is grave miscalculation but he was shunned, ridiculed, and even physically abused by his comrades.

This is what *blind nationalism* does to a society - it makes people blind and overconfident to the point that they do not pay heed to sane voices from within the society but go as far as to suppress them instead.

A man can be patriotic *and* pragmatic. A society can be patriotic *and* pragmatic by extension.

For perspective: I strive to be patriotic *and* pragmatic. If I can then others can follow suit as well. I want the best for my country like any patriotic Pakistani. But I insist on "common sense decisions." I caution against playing games with Foreign powers because they will respond in kind and blind nationalists will not like it. Be upfront about your interests in your dealings with Foreign powers on one hand and choose your battles wisely on the other hand.

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## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> Where he gets his credibility from is using 'lol' across his sentences. That is what you should take seriously when there is a war going on and people put 'lols'


First of all, most of these people treat war like a game, you win or lose. I have been to a war, when you lose, you are dead, and even if you win, you are probably going to be dead inside. When you think this is a game, or this is a joke or a way to dick measure, then you don't see it seriously, and what come next is to blabbing their mouth off, because they will never experience what people experience in war, whether or not as a civilian or soldier, for me, I used to look my people in the eye and tll him to charge a fix machine gun position while you try to flank it, that's what I do as a 2LT. That's not a game, that's comes with responsibility, people died because of this, but then they will never feel it. 

Second of all, these people have no idea how war work, sure, nuke is easy to talk about when you are ten thousand mile away and just try to bullshit people, I mean, one of them keep saying US don't dare do this or don't dare do that, in war, dare or not dare is not an issue here, I have people I know scare shitless first time when they come under fire, bullet start grazing above your head, that sound you will never forget, but then yes, it's not their head, so what do they care?? Talk is cheap, I can say a lot of thing here, but I won't because for people who had experience war, just to think about it brought you back to hell. nobody fought in a war want to see another war in their life time. But when your experience is just watching it on TV, well, that's what you think war were. 

That's why these people are a joke, for them, a war is a punchline, a point of dick measure, how good it was for you and how bad it was for other, suffering on both side did not exist in their mind, I once had one of these PDF folks tell me do i want to bet on the War in Russia with him, I mean are you for real? Do you think this is some kind of sport game? If you want to bet, go bet on horses, don't bet on people misfortune, and that how these people treat war.

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## Viet

Oh that hurts. Alexander Dugin, the ideological brain behind Russia invasion of Ukraine, is not happy with Putin.
Putin must watch out. Dugin openly calls for Putin’s assassination.

"We give the ruler absolute fullness of power, and he saves us all, the people, the state, people, citizens, at a critical moment. If for this he surrounds himself with s*** or spits on social justice, this is unpleasant, but if only he saves. Then - the fate of the 'king of the rains'."






Dugin

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## Vergennes

Viet said:


> Oh that hurts. Alexander Dugin, the ideological brain behind Russia invasion of Ukraine, is not happy with Putin.
> Putin must watch out. Dugin openly calls for Putin’s assassination.
> 
> "We give the ruler absolute fullness of power, and he saves us all, the people, the state, people, citizens, at a critical moment. If for this he surrounds himself with s*** or spits on social justice, this is unpleasant, but if only he saves. Then - the fate of the 'king of the rains'."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dugin



Expect some "unfortunate" window falling or Dugin offered tea in the coming weeks.

Russia's Lavrov taken to hospital upon arrival at G20 summit​








Russia denies Lavrov was taken to hospital at G20 summit – DW – 11/14/2022


Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov reportedly suffered heart problems after arriving for the G20 summit in Bali, Indonesian authorities have said.




www.dw.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

BHAN85 said:


> Peak of normal crude oil already happened more than one decade ago, and that's the cause of diesel being more expensive than gasoline currently in some countries (like Spain), something unique in history (it always was cheaper same amount of diesel than gasoline).


lol, diesel was cheaper in Australia than petrol for last 20 years. 


LeGenD said:


> Obama administration ignored Russian invasion and annexation of parts of Georgia. Obama administration also accommodated Russian mission in Syria. People think that Donald Trump was courting Vladimir Putin, I would say that Barack Obama was also courting Putin.


So true, Its like he cared very little about europe and always worrying about Kenya. 


jhungary said:


> I used to look my people in the eye and tll him to charge a fix machine gun position while you try to flank it, that's what I do as a 2LT. That's not a game, that's comes with responsibility, people died because of this,


Why not just call in artillery or an airstrike instead of losing a soldier over it?

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Why not just call in artillery or an airstrike instead of losing a soldier over it?


We are not Russian; we don't call Artillery for just 2 dudes with a Machinegun.....

I don't understand where this come from, I mean, we can't fight a war if we call artillery all the time whenever we hit MG Nest, Road Block, Firing Port, Strong Point, well, okay strong point maybe. But you don't generally hit with with arty for any obstacle you face, you are an infantry officer for a reason, your job is to unfuck the situation on the ground, that mean you will need to find someway to progress with the war and not calling support all the time...

I mean, maybe it's on TV or what, but if I call Air Strike or Artillery strike on a bunker complex, they will laugh at me over the net and then tell me to take care of it myself when they stop laughing.....

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## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591891636283473922
@F-22Raptor @jhungary


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591921598524755969

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591891636283473922
> @F-22Raptor @jhungary
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591921598524755969



Did these people even know how Radar work??

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> We are not Russian; we don't call Artillery for just 2 dudes with a Machinegun.....
> 
> I don't understand where this come from, I mean, we can't fight a war if we call artillery all the time whenever we hit MG Nest, Road Block, Firing Port, Strong Point, well, okay strong point maybe. But you don't generally hit with with arty for any obstacle you face, you are an infantry officer for a reason, your job is to unfuck the situation on the ground, that mean you will need to find someway to progress with the war and not calling support all the time...
> 
> I mean, maybe it's on TV or what, but if I call Air Strike or Artillery strike on a bunker complex, they will laugh at me over the net and then tell me to take care of it myself when they stop laughing.....


Yeah but you said people died over such decisions. What do you tell their kids? Oh you dad died because calling in an artillery shell that costs $2,000 was too much, people would laugh at me, better to get your dad killed, sorry kid.


----------



## jhungary

Ramzan Kadyrov just declare Jihad on Ukraine and ask Muslim to join......

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> Expect some "unfortunate" window falling or Dugin offered tea in the coming weeks.
> 
> Russia's Lavrov taken to hospital upon arrival at G20 summit​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia denies Lavrov was taken to hospital at G20 summit – DW – 11/14/2022
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov reportedly suffered heart problems after arriving for the G20 summit in Bali, Indonesian authorities have said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dw.com


Lavrov is a loyal dog. he will not stage a coup d’etat. He is only good as Putin’s dumb propaganda speaker. His life is not in danger. If anything than someone from the army or FSB.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Yeah but you said people died over such decisions. What do you tell their kids? Oh you dad died because calling in an artillery shell that costs $2,000 was too much, people would laugh at me, better to get your dad killed, sorry kid.


look, you don't call artillery on every enemy hard point in war, first of all, that would not have enough artillery round to go around I mean, a single platoon has 42 soldiers, a Battalion have 3 company, each with 4 platoons, you are talking about hundred, if not thousands of targets in a Battalion size line. And that's just one line, one battalion. You have 1 artillery, 16 guns, serving 5 Battalions in any given AO. If everyone starts sending coordinate of MG point, hard point, firing point and ask Arty to take care of it, your fire mission probably will come in 4 days after you call it.

You don't call in enemy MG hidden in building, bushes or vegetation, you maneuver your troop to go after it, flank it, attack it from the front if you have to, or go cover to cover, that's your job, if you meet serious concentration like a battalion size enemy massing, or have a priority target, then yes, you call in your support. Otherwise they will ask you why are they paying you for??

As for what would I tell their kid? Do I tell the kid the Army can't fix the Bradley rotation we should be riding on because they are unwilling to ship just 4 Bradley back to closest US base to fix it, so they use us as infantry and that's why your dad got killed? People died in battlefield, sometime because of some heroic reason, sometime because of stupidity, and sometime because of other people's stupidity. You tell them what they want to hear, not how he died. You tell the kid your dad is a hero and he save other people live. That's what you tell him.

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Expect some "unfortunate" window falling or Dugin offered tea in the coming weeks.
> 
> Russia's Lavrov taken to hospital upon arrival at G20 summit​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia denies Lavrov was taken to hospital at G20 summit – DW – 11/14/2022
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov reportedly suffered heart problems after arriving for the G20 summit in Bali, Indonesian authorities have said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dw.com


That's not Lavrov taken to Hospital. That's Russian starting their "Special Hospital Operation" in Indonesia......Or may just be Lavrov doing "Special Operation" in Hospital...

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## thetutle

Looking at this war, I think having troops on the front line, holding some line will be as obsolete as an infantry charge of WW1. It appears that with drones, having anyone near a front line is like an almost certain death sentence from these drones. The only way anyone will be able to go near a front line in the future seems to be on a very fast armoured truck and advancing. Thats what it looks like to me.



jhungary said:


> look, you don't call artillery on every enemy hard point in war, first of all, that would not have enough artillery round to go around I mean, a single platoon has 42 soldiers, a Battalion have 3 company, each with 4 platoons, you are talking about hundred, if not thousands of targets in a Battalion size line. And that's just one line, one battalion. You have 1 artillery, 16 guns, serving 5 Battalions in any given AO. If everyone starts sending coordinate of MG point, hard point, firing point and ask Arty to take care of it, your fire mission probably will come in 4 days after you call it.


But out of all the units you mentioned above, how many would have contact with the enemy at the same time in places like Afghanistan? There is not enough arty only if lots of them have contact at the same time.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Looking at this war, I think having troops on the front line, holding some line will be as obsolete as an infantry charge of WW1. It appears that with drones, having anyone near a front line is like an almost certain death sentence from these drones. The only way anyone will be able to go near a front line in the future seems to be on a very fast armoured truck and advancing. Thats what it looks like to me.



That's what people said since a clean air war had won us the First Gulf war. Infantries are obsolete. 30 years on, we still see whoever have a bigger Infantry Unit on the battlefield sway that battlefield. 

There are something drone and airpower just cannot do. And every weapon platform has their limitation. You really can't replace one platform with another.





thetutle said:


> But out of all the units you mentioned above, how many would have contact with the enemy at the same time in places like Afghanistan? There is not enough arty only if lots of them have contact at the same time.



You would be amazing how many contacts I had in an op. Once I was boxed in by a MG to the front, and getting flanked by insurgent on my flank, we have marked 50 targets just on our flank. Also, you sometime just don't have time to wait for Arty. By the time the rounds over, you would probably be dead. 

Artillery is not god, if your unit is maneuverable, they can't change their elevation faster than you advance, that's why Dick Winter said to Lieutenant Norman in the battle of Foy in Band of Brother, "you charge in before their artillery can zero on you". That did happen by the way.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> Again i think i will stop talking about covid now. What does Vietnam or Cambodia got to do with 1 mil dead yanks? Congrats to them both although I guess their lack of proper diagnostics might not have bren giving an accurate picture.
> 
> Btw 4mil dead yindoos is definitely the most extreme
> 
> Alot of countries hate US too, but i don't think we want to annihilate them. Indians have a perennial hatred because you lost a war, just let go okay. Hahhahha
> 
> 
> Dude stop talking about covid, i can go on and on about the incompetence of the US, 500 ppl are still dying daily in the states, but of course, if it's not reported in the msm, fanboys like you are oblivious.
> 
> 
> I don't but i think this will happen because of Western arrogance. People seems to forget the source of this conflict.
> 
> The red line is pretty simple, we don't bomb you and you don't bomb us. US is not the king here mate, they are many countries with the sane level of destructive power. That's the reason NATO is mostly doing shouting power while giving the weapons for the Ukrainian to fight.


LOL you keep accusing Vietnam & Cambodia with fudging their numbers but are you willing to bet that China didn't do the same? For all we know the numbers from China can't be trusted either. Until China reach zero covid like Vietnam & Cambodia. You guys are throwing rock in a glass house. 

More country hate China mate. Ask Australia, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, India, EU countries, US. Even South Korea slowly turning anti China. 

There's a reason AUKUS is created and why Australia & Japan now have a defense pact. While country surrounding China are uparming themselves. 

Ah yes the Russian trully are a superpower. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591938693840998400

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## Reashot Xigwin

This is what real leader looks like btw. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592089156204863490

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## Reashot Xigwin

Rusky wanting to nuke Washington. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591870621918584836


----------



## thetutle

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Ah yes the Russian trully are a superpower.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591938693840998400


How dare she, isn't that a deer carcas she is holding? Who gave her that? very ungrateful.


----------



## BHAN85

thetutle said:


> lol, diesel was cheaper in Australia than petrol for last 20 years.


Congrats, Australia has the half of population than Spain. 

Now (this year) gasoline is cheaper than diesel in whole west europe and that never happened before.

The reason is the lack of crude oil is substituted with shale oil, that is a less quality oil, less adequate to produce diesel. And the effects of that change it started to happen this year.

World is running out of cheap fossil energy, and since one decade ago it was started to get energy through shale oil, fracking and so on.

If you think that thing is a triviality and it wont have real effects in future wars and conflicts, well, what more I can say? 









Diesel prices around the world, 05-Dec-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com


Diesel prices by country using official data sources.




www.globalpetrolprices.com













Gasoline prices around the world, 05-Dec-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com


Gas prices by country using official data sources.




www.globalpetrolprices.com





Anyway, that web says that diesel is more expensive than gasoline in Australia right now (0.22 USD more expensive per litre, like here).


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592134181731303425

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592055085391319042

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592091812625547264

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Translated version:
> 
> COD needs to add this gun to MW2. 😁
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591546780285816832


That’s what Russia army gets when you have the ex spy Putin as chief of army, police, security services, gov, justice, and parliament. No control, no check and balance.
Then you mix the cocktail with corruption, incompetence and propaganda. You shake it thru and add China unlimited friendship. Then voila, Russia in 2022.

German army in 2022.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592134181731303425


Also earmarked at over >100% the original price. 

This is why lowkey want to see a war with China. I kinda want to see PLA invade Taiwan with airsoft equipment.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592148695252086786

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592158777121591302

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL you keep accusing Vietnam & Cambodia with fudging their numbers but are you willing to bet that China didn't do the same? For all we know the numbers from China can't be trusted either. Until China reach zero covid like Vietnam & Cambodia. You guys are throwing rock in a glass house.
> 
> More country hate China mate. Ask Australia, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, India, EU countries, US. Even South Korea slowly turning anti China.
> 
> There's a reason AUKUS is created and why Australia & Japan now have a defense pact. While country surrounding China are uparming themselves.
> 
> Ah yes the Russian trully are a superpower.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591938693840998400


Dude, calm down i know 4 mil imdians died, please dont get so angry. Lololol. Anyway, good got Cambodia abd Vietnam, i just saying they don't have the system to even diagnose their population properly. But what have they got to do with 1 mil dead Muricans. Can we stop talking about covid in tbis thread?

I don't know whether Russia is a superpower, i just know US does not dare enter Ukraine for a reason. And for once i think India has some balls defying their US papa. This war is not just about Ukraine, its about standing up against a unipolar US expansion. After Russia, China is next and then India. If you want India to live like a slave to these cartel, then cheer for NATO.


----------



## jhungary

Zelenskyy have balls, I wouldn't visit Kherson that soon. 

On the other hand, Putin still spend 0 minute in the frontline.

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## Georg

Viet said:


> Ukraine sea drones
> 
> Weight 1 ton, range 400km, max speed 80kph, operation hours 60h, HD image resolution, 256 bit encrypted communications.
> 
> Ready to go
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591035625431793665



Germany already has put the first sea drone into service


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592175394677198849


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592173702976012289

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## Viet

Lavrov with Apple iPhone and Apple watch. 
Does he have Tesla?

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## Vergennes

Huge if confirmed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592195331181416448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592199509152759808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592195751521964032

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> Dude, calm down i know 4 mil imdians died, please dont get so angry. Lololol. Anyway, good got Cambodia abd Vietnam, i just saying they don't have the system to even diagnose their population properly. But what have they got to do with 1 mil dead Muricans. Can we stop talking about covid in tbis thread?
> 
> I don't know whether Russia is a superpower, i just know US does not dare enter Ukraine for a reason. And for once i think India has some balls defying their US papa. This war is not just about Ukraine, its about standing up against a unipolar US expansion. After Russia, China is next and then India. If you want India to live like a slave to these cartel, then cheer for NATO.



LOL just admit you guys can't compete against Cambodia in zero covid. 

The reason China even exist in the first place is because the US help your country in the 1st place against the Japanese. Not to mention both Nixon, Clinton & Carter admin helping admit China to the WTO and helping to invest in the country. 

You people are the definition of ungrateful.

Something something war crime 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592071510176731137

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592143640574693377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592134954871586816


----------



## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> Joe Biden has shown more spine than other American Presidents in terms of confronting Russian bear in decades.



Because he was forced to. If not for external circumstances, it would've been a repeat of 2014 otherwise.

If not for overall sense of crisis, China situation, and the need to not look completely defeatiat, Biden would've continued the Obama line.

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## Shawnee

Vergennes said:


> Huge if confirmed
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592195331181416448
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592199509152759808
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592195751521964032



Iranian version of HIMARS is badly needed to fill the infantry draw backs.

Fateh 110, Zelzal, Basir

INS, GPS and Laser guided mobile HIMARS


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> If anything than someone from the army or FSB.



Since it's Bali, I can blame Desi Daru



RoadAmerica said:


> Oh and if it’s so easy why doesn’t China do it, I thought they had a defense pact?



China's defence treaty with Russia was to expire in February 2022, the extension was said to be only nominal

I had a sense there was an upheaval in Beijing last year in July when Russians tipped Beijing of its plans.

Russians wanted to push for extension, and BJ has abstained from cancelling the treaty publicly, but not confirmed its extension.


----------



## Viet

Incredible
One hit one kill
100 percent accuracy
Ukraine artillery fires at very far distance how can it be achieved?
It’s like shooting chickens.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592132524805083136
It went from "Countries will take exemple of the Russian army" to "How not to take exemple of the Russian army" and "things not to do in a global conflict".

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Incredible
> One hit one kill
> 100 percent accuracy
> Ukraine artillery fires at very far distance how can it be achieved?
> It’s like shooting chickens.



That's entirely possible with conventional artillery at short range, if the gunnery is near excellent. This explosion is very likelly not a 152mm or 155mm, but 122mm, or 105mm.

Those 122mm pieces can easily target individual vehicles under 10km with first shot. UK's most upgraded 105mm have thermal sights with targetting computers, and a radar+GPS for targetting past visual range.

UA has invested a lot into artillery training since it was the only weapon they had a lot of 8 years ago.


----------



## The SC

A new study (from the University of Adelaide, Australia) finds that 60-80% of Twitter accounts posting about the war between Russia and Ukraine are fake (bots), and 90% of them are "pro-Ukrainian".

https://theprint.in/tech/60-80-of-t...-bots-90-pro-ukraine-finds-new-study/1114878/

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592221551973523456


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592221551973523456




Reports of Ukrainian breakthroughs on this front


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592220614290714624

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## Lehrasap

Han Patriot said:


> We were already labelled as evil no matter what we do, might as well go all in and help the Russians. *US does not want to exist with China as a near peer*


It is not only US, but all the Western people have problem with China. 
And this problem is not with Chinese people, but only with the Chinese System of Government. 
If China becomes a real democracy, then there will be no problem any more. At least Western people will not fear China any more, and even support China if US Government tries to do anything wrong. 
Therefore, the biggest problem is Chinese dictatorship.

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## Paul2

P.S. while googling up what they shot at them, it came to me that US artilley shells still use plain cast TNT, not even modern TNT with phlegmatisers, and high temperature additives.



Lehrasap said:


> If China becomes a real democracy, then there will be no problem any more.



I highly doubt that. US itself chose to deal with crippled communist China over a national Chinese state, thinking that the later will be way nastier.

Same for Russia. Even if Russia will be properly Balkanised, stripped off control of Siberia, and made into a state with federative structure stronger than even Germany, they will, absolutely certainly, return to what they did for centuries even while being a democratic nation.

This is exactly the reason why we fear India too.

The democratic nations are perfectly capable of initiating aggression on their own without any external reason for it.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Shawnee said:


> Iranian version of HIMARS is badly needed to fill the infantry draw backs.
> 
> Fateh 110, Zelzal, Basir
> 
> INS, GPS and Laser guided mobile HIMARS


 well , i'm all on this war most continue , but honestly it seems giving russia weapon is not the way , we must start training , their commanders in modern warfare strategy .
what the point is if we give them weapon and they use it wrong


----------



## LeGenD

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592249051101143043

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## thetutle

LeGenD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592249051101143043


its critical they take this area, because of the shoreline, but its very very risky in terms of being able to supply them in the future.


----------



## Beny Karachun

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591124022162444289
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591164789824233472
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591134781781049344
> 
> 
> Three empty trucks!?
> Are there other gifts?


That KA52 is so garbage honestly, it lacks stabilization, you can see the gunner struggling to keep the sight stabilized on the target, and the pilot is forced to hover.

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## Vergennes

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591124022162444289
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591164789824233472
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591134781781049344
> 
> 
> Three empty trucks!?
> Are there other gifts?



Several months to capture 10 houses,LMAO.

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Dude, calm down i know 4 mil imdians died, please dont get so angry. Lololol. Anyway, good got Cambodia abd Vietnam, i just saying they don't have the system to even diagnose their population properly. But what have they got to do with 1 mil dead Muricans. Can we stop talking about covid in tbis thread?
> 
> I don't know whether Russia is a superpower, i just know US does not dare enter Ukraine for a reason. And for once i think India has some balls defying their US papa. This war is not just about Ukraine, its about standing up against a unipolar US expansion. After Russia, China is next and then India. If you want India to live like a slave to these cartel, then cheer for NATO.


You were explained the US scenario and the weakness of China one in an earlier post. Don't have amnesia so quickly.

What are you worried about US being afraid of Ukraine: it went from defensive to offensive weapons and crossed very red line Russia drew.

The red line that China drew against Pelosi's visit was just as easily disregarded. Stop using exagerrations and childlike language that has no basis in reality .



Hack-Hook said:


> well , i'm all on this war most continue , but honestly it seems giving russia weapon is not the way , we must start training , their commanders in modern warfare strategy .
> what the point is if we give them weapon and they use it wrong


Who is we? You and Shawnee personally? Or somebody you are cheering for? Or everybody on this thread? Will you personally go do this beyond just typing 'we' means 'others'.

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## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL just admit you guys can't compete against Cambodia in zero covid.
> 
> The reason China even exist in the first place is because the US help your country in the 1st place against the Japanese. Not to mention both Nixon, Clinton & Carter admin helping admit China to the WTO and helping to invest in the country.
> 
> You people are the definition of ungrateful.
> 
> Something something war crime
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592071510176731137


Congrats to Cambodia. 
The only reason India exists is due to UK? Why don't you stop supporting Russia? Lol. We have existed as a unified country since at least Qin dynasty, that's 2000 years ago. India is a British creation. So go kiss your White masters arse. You have a really submissive slave logic.

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> Ramzan Kadyrov just declare Jihad on Ukraine and ask Muslim to join......


No Muslim worth his salt would join in a war of oppression. Join who? Russia? The same people who butchered women and children by the bucket loads in Chechnya and actively recruit ethics as cannon fodder. Why should Muslims join a war against Ukraine? What has Ukraine done to the Muslim world? 

Ukraine and its people have earned the respect of this Muslim. Слава Україні!

Also

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## Han Patriot

aviator_fan said:


> You were explained the US scenario and the weakness of China one in an earlier post. Don't have amnesia so quickly.
> 
> What are you worried about US being afraid of Ukraine: it went from defensive to offensive weapons and crossed very red line Russia drew.
> 
> The red line that China drew against Pelosi's visit was just as easily disregarded. Stop using exagerrations and childlike language that has no basis in reality .
> 
> 
> Who is we? You and Shawnee personally? Or somebody you are cheering for? Or everybody on this thread? Will you personally go do this beyond just typing 'we' means 'others'.


Whatever weakness or scenario, facts as facts, please get back to the topic. 
You think we are going to nuke US and start WW3 because an old lady was visiting? Its just drama mate. Ok let's get back to topic. Until i see US or NATO boots on the ground, US is just making noises, i remember US warning Russia about their redline, Russia invaded anyway, lol.

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591891636283473922
> @F-22Raptor @jhungary
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591921598524755969


Incompetent nincompoops. 

Russians are all out of Ideas...


----------



## Han Patriot

Lehrasap said:


> It is not only US, but all the Western people have problem with China.
> And this problem is not with Chinese people, but only with the Chinese System of Government.
> If China becomes a real democracy, then there will be no problem any more. At least Western people will not fear China any more, and even support China if US Government tries to do anything wrong.
> Therefore, the biggest problem is Chinese dictatorship.



Whether we are a dictatorship, that's our problems, the real reason was never about that, it's about our defiance against US hegemony, i dont see the West toppling Saudi Arabia? All this is bullshit, as long as China is weak or submissive like Japan, all is well. US actually used to prefer dictators to real demicratic countries, they tend to topple populist leaders. Wake up slaves!

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592134181731303425


Check out the shop name:

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Incompetent nincompoops.
> 
> Russians are all out of Ideas...








I am pretty sure the dingo berry basket is attached at the wrong end. 

I think I can see the grill on this picture where they attached to (Which mean the main gun is facing the direction of the driver). which mean that's the engine and that's exhaust. If you attach a heat signature outside the exhaust will only guide the missile toward the engine, because whatever that's burning the engine is going to be hotter than theat thing...



RescueRanger said:


> No Muslim worth his salt would join in a war of oppression. Join who? Russia? The same people who butchered women and children by the bucket loads in Chechnya and actively recruit ethics as cannon fodder. Why should Muslims join a war against Ukraine? What has Ukraine done to the Muslim world?
> 
> Ukraine and its people have earned the respect of this Muslim. Слава Україні!
> 
> Also


Yeah, that's why as the video said he is getting delusion on that. But that quite a change ain't it? Ever since the last time a missile or artillery disrupt their Telegram social media shot.



RescueRanger said:


> Check out the shop name:
> View attachment 896574


This is not new......I said they were raiding airsoft store back in Russia since September, looks like they have emptied the Air Soft store and now moving on to Alibaba......Well, at least you won't be able to cheat by not calling hit when you were hit........>.< (If you play airsoft before, cheating is a rampant problem of any air soft game...)

Or maybe they ran out of money? I don't know.

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> View attachment 896575
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure the dingo berry basket is attached at the wrong end.
> 
> I think I can see the grill on this picture where they attached to (Which mean the main gun is facing the direction of the driver). which mean that's the engine and that's exhaust. If you attach a heat signature outside the exhaust will only guide the missile toward the engine, because whatever that's burning the engine is going to be hotter than theat thing...
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's why as the video said he is getting delusion on that. But that quite a change ain't it? Ever since the last time a missile or artillery disrupt their Telegram social media shot.
> 
> 
> This is not new......I said they were raiding airsoft store back in Russia since September, looks like they have emptied the Air Soft store and now moving on to Alibaba......Well, at least you won't be able to cheat by not calling hit when you were hit........>.< (If you play airsoft before, cheating is a rampant problem of any air soft game...)
> 
> Or maybe they ran out of money? I don't know.



Yeah, I saw the airsoft masks issued to mobilised Mobniks. Even the "ballistic" helmets they are issued are fake:

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## The SC




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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Yeah, I saw the airsoft masks issued to mobilised Mobniks. Even the "ballistic" helmets they are issued are fake:


lol, you should see or start reading Telegram channel, some people call these mobik "Actor" because they dress the part like you would when you shoot a war movie, but everything else was fake, even themselves...They aren't soldier, they were actor.....

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> lol, you should see or start reading Telegram channel, some people call these mobik "Actor" because they dress the part like you would when you shoot a war movie, but everything else was fake, even themselves...They aren't soldier, they were actor.....


Hahaha, honestly this war has exposed Russia. For its bluster, it's a lame duck.

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Hahaha, honestly this war has exposed Russia. For its bluster, it's a lame duck.


lol, i have a telegram joke for that as well.

They are calling it the most expensive and the most realistic movie production. It's like sending a bunch of actor who dress a soldier into an actual war. But not every time you have the result like you would in tropic thunder. I mean I don't care how advance CGI is, you can't beat an actual ejection video from Russian Air Force actually filming their ejection from a 25 million Su-25 jet. Or countless film stock that we see T-80 or even T-90 being blown to bits with portable ATGM. Those shots would have put Michael Bay to shame.

People are already joking that Russia want to depose Hollywood in making action movie and use those film stock of things that actually happen to make movie or sell them via stock licensing...

This is how bad the people see the Russian progress.

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## Elvin

The fact Russians are evacuating civilians who want to go with them from cities they hand over to the AFU smells to me. Either Russia is planning an offensive OR it will use an EMP or twctical nuke to hit large concentrations of AFU forces.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592330564270690304
No Shahed or cruise missile strikes in the last week.

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## Lehrasap

Han Patriot said:


> Whether we are a dictatorship, that's our problems, the real reason was never about that, it's about our defiance against US hegemony, i dont see the West toppling Saudi Arabia? All this is bullshit, as long as China is weak or submissive like Japan, all is well. US actually used to prefer dictators to real demicratic countries, they tend to topple populist leaders. Wake up slaves!



I am afraid you are mistaken. 
There is a lot of opposition against Saudi like dictatorship among the Western people. It is even more than Chinese system. Yes, Saudi is an Allie, but still it is hated. 
Nevertheless, the western people also know that this world is not an ideal place and we have to make compromises. Even if we try to impose western democracy and our values upon these people, still this is not going to work as people of SA are themselves not ready for it. 
But imagine, if SA gets enough power to challenge us, then it will become even bigger problem for us. 
The same is true about China. 
Firstly, China's socialist government is totally against our values. And secondly, now it has become powerful enough to challenge us. it will only leads towards fight in the near future, as a stronger China will impose its system upon nearby countries like Hong Kong (while Hong Kong people are not ready to go under the Chinese system). 
Why Hong Kong people don't want Chinese system or to join China? The answer is the same that they think the same way as the Western people think.

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## Han Patriot

Lehrasap said:


> I am afraid you are mistaken.
> There is a lot of opposition against Saudi like dictatorship among the Western people. It is even more than Chinese system. Yes, Saudi is an Allie, but still it is hated.
> Nevertheless, the western people also know that this world is not an ideal place and we have to make compromises. Even if we try to impose western democracy and our values upon these people, still this is not going to work as people of SA are themselves not ready for it.
> But imagine, if SA gets enough power to challenge us, then it will become even bigger problem for us.
> The same is true about China.
> Firstly, China's socialist government is totally against our values. And secondly, now it has become powerful enough to challenge us. it will only leads towards fight in the near future, as a stronger China will impose its system upon nearby countries like Hong Kong (while Hong Kong people are not ready to go under the Chinese system).
> Why Hong Kong people don't want Chinese system or to join China? The answer is the same that they think the same way as the Western people think.


I think the best way to describe US is this, it's a country run by the deep state, lobbied by the corporations with politicians elected by the people as puopets to give a facade of democracy. Alot policies executed by the GOTUS is actually against the wishes of the people but heck what do I know. When you say Americans hate Saudis, you need to define which section of Americans? The deep state? The corporatocracy or the average Joe. Once you understand this concept th3n come back and talk to me.

Your values or facade of that value is your problem, our system is our problem. China does not seek to destroy US but US seeks to destroy China. ONLY an idiot thinks US is peaceful. China seeks a multipolar world with power shared among the other powers, US seeks hegemony. You see tge difference, we are no angel but US is definitely the devil wearing a holy mask.


----------



## thetutle

BHAN85 said:


> World is running out of cheap fossil energy, and since one decade ago it was started to get energy through shale oil, fracking and so on.


Only because Europe has raised taxes on electricity production. They could halve the price tomorrow. 


RescueRanger said:


> No Muslim worth his salt would join in a war of oppression. Join who? Russia? The same people who butchered women and children by the bucket loads in Chechnya and actively recruit ethics as cannon fodder. Why should Muslims join a war against Ukraine? What has Ukraine done to the Muslim world?
> 
> Ukraine and its people have earned the respect of this Muslim. Слава Україні!
> 
> Also


This is a good point. muslims are definitely divided on the issue. I have no doubt some sincerely support russia. The truth is the west and russia probably hate muslims equally. Before this war russia is basically a part of the west. Both the west and russia sought to Destroy and weaken muslims. The muslims living is both west and russia probably get a similar shitty deal. Muslims in Russia probably get less institutional and societal discrimination which I find surprising. Depends on your colour though. 

Ukraine has not harmed Muslims lately but they have historically while under russian rule in taking over Crimea and populating it. 

I cant really blame some muslims for supporting Russia, particularly Iranians, but to most muslims in the world and particularly those in europe and central Asia, an expanding russia is not a good thing. 

As a Bosnian, I cant see any huge effect on us if russia took Ukraine, and short of its army linking up with Serbia, I'd say we are safe. But I just get an overall feeling that Its far better to live under the western sphere of influence in NATO and EU than in russia. 



Han Patriot said:


> I think the best way to describe US is this, it's a country run by the deep state, lobbied by the corporations with politicians elected by the people as puopets to give a facade of democracy. Alot policies executed by the GOTUS is actually against the wishes of the people but heck what do I know.



I think you might be spot on.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Paul2 said:


> P.S. while googling up what they shot at them, it came to me that US artilley shells still use plain cast TNT, not even modern TNT with phlegmatisers, and high temperature additives.
> 
> 
> 
> I highly doubt that. US itself chose to deal with crippled communist China over a national Chinese state, thinking that the later will be way nastier.
> 
> Same for Russia. Even if Russia will be properly Balkanised, stripped off control of Siberia, and made into a state with federative structure stronger than even Germany, they will, absolutely certainly, return to what they did for centuries even while being a democratic nation.
> 
> This is exactly the reason why we fear India too.
> 
> The democratic nations are perfectly capable of initiating aggression on their own without any external reason for it.


Only if one see actions of genocidal dictators like Saddam, Mullah Omar, Gadaffi and Milosevich as perfectly normal.

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## aviator_fan

Han Patriot said:


> Whatever weakness or scenario, facts as facts, please get back to the topic.
> You think we are going to nuke US and start WW3 because an old lady was visiting? Its just drama mate. Ok let's get back to topic. Until i see US or NATO boots on the ground, US is just making noises, i remember US warning Russia about their redline, Russia invaded anyway, lol.


This is your typical behavior I have now seen it 3x in the last 2 days. You bring back random unrelated facts (US deaths, India British creation, US not dare to enter Ukraine, the greatness of China 2000 years ago) all from an ignorant, illinformed lens of somebody that could be a bot for Chinese Govt (not that of even a below average Chinese citizen). When you are challenged you adopt the common sense: 'lets get back to the point'.

You are a distraction for everybody here, and by your ignorance, those of us like China, are losing our patience in bringing your IQ.

So lets get back to the Ukraine war and you stop bringing back comments that a 10 year old with access to google would not make

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## kingQamaR

Hack-Hook said:


> well , i'm all on this war most continue , but honestly it seems giving russia weapon is not the way , we must start training , their commanders in modern warfare strategy .
> what the point is if we give them weapon and they use it wrong



The Russian military is a laughingstock. If they had not invaded Ukraine, nobody would have known how rubbish their military is.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> That's entirely possible with conventional artillery at short range, if the gunnery is near excellent. This explosion is very likelly not a 152mm or 155mm, but 122mm, or 105mm.
> 
> Those 122mm pieces can easily target individual vehicles under 10km with first shot. UK's most upgraded 105mm have thermal sights with targetting computers, and a radar+GPS for targetting past visual range.
> 
> UA has invested a lot into artillery training since it was the only weapon they had a lot of 8 years ago.


By such precision artillery strikes, the 320,000 Putin’s mobis are doomed. Casualties run by 1,000 per day, they won’t make any difference, they are worthless sacrifices.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592330564270690304
> No Shahed or cruise missile strikes in the last week.


Such slow flying Iran suicide drones are easy targets for Germany Iris-T missile batteries. They take down drones, aircraft with 100 percent accuracy. The tide has turned.

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## sutton999

Lehrasap said:


> It is not only US, but all the Western people have problem with China.
> And this problem is not with Chinese people, but only with the Chinese System of Government.
> If China becomes a real democracy, then there will be no problem any more. At least Western people will not fear China any more, and even support China if US Government tries to do anything wrong.
> Therefore, the biggest problem is Chinese dictatorship.


low iq



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591403056234913793

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591745186262310913
Which side do you think US actually supports during Chinese civil war in 40s?


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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> Reports of Ukrainian breakthroughs on this front





thetutle said:


> Only because Europe has raised taxes on electricity production. They could halve the price tomorrow.
> 
> This is a good point. muslims are definitely divided on the issue. I have no doubt some sincerely support russia. The truth is the west and russia probably hate muslims equally.


Ah that must be why we so generously allow muslim immigration and mosques in our countries….populations growing tenfold…
Or saved kosovo from the serbs…
Or give so much food and monetary aid…

Because “west hates muslims”…smh


thetutle said:


> Before this war russia is basically a part of the west. Both the west and russia sought to Destroy and weaken muslims.


Oh please…”muslim” power plummeted after ottoman collapse. If russia and west (two superpowers) were truly intent to “destroy the muslims” you would have seen “the disappearing christians in Middle East/Armenian marches/uyghur re-education” worldwide and there was nothing anyone would be able to do against it. 

Simple example: 
People on this thread cry about Nato vs Afghanistan….afghan life expectancy greatly increased during Nato occupation…but yeah…the “evil west” wants to “destroy muslims”…please this is demonizing and generalizing to the level of the kristallnacht…stop spreading these hatefull lies.


thetutle said:


> The muslims living is both west and russia probably get a similar shitty deal. Muslims in Russia probably get less institutional and societal discrimination which I find surprising. Depends on your colour though.


West scores much much better on human rights, rule of law, freedoms, upward social mobility on minorities then how minorities are treated in muslim countries….
Fact



thetutle said:


> I cant really blame some muslims for supporting Russia, particularly Iranians, but to most muslims in the world and particularly those in europe and central Asia, an expanding russia is not a good thing.
> 
> As a Bosnian, I cant see any huge effect on us if russia took Ukraine, and short of its army linking up with Serbia, I'd say we are safe. But I just get an overall feeling that Its far better to live under the western sphere of influence in NATO and EU than in russia.


Thats why half of europe came running to Nato. 


thetutle said:


> I think you might be spot on.

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## AlKardai

RescueRanger said:


> Check out the shop name:
> View attachment 896574



I have used these vests in the past before. I can tell you that they are actually decently hard wearing, but barely hold plates in place, don’t have enough pockets, super loud Velcro, and a very tricky release system

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## Han Patriot

Dude, you are the one who asked me to be thankful because of the West. Should i also say thank you for their 200 years of drug peddling? So lets get bck to topic eh.


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## sammuel

jhungary said:


> View attachment 896575
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure the dingo berry basket is attached at the wrong end.
> 
> I think I can see the grill on this picture where they attached to (Which mean the main gun is facing the direction of the driver). which mean that's the engine and that's exhaust. If you attach a heat signature outside the exhaust will only guide the missile toward the engine, because whatever that's burning the engine is going to be hotter than theat thing...
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's why as the video said he is getting delusion on that. But that quite a change ain't it? Ever since the last time a missile or artillery disrupt their Telegram social media shot.
> 
> 
> This is not new......I said they were raiding airsoft store back in Russia since September, looks like they have emptied the Air Soft store and now moving on to Alibaba......Well, at least you won't be able to cheat by not calling hit when you were hit........>.< (If you play airsoft before, cheating is a rampant problem of any air soft game...)
> 
> Or maybe they ran out of money? I don't know.



One of the few advantages of the Russian tanks are their low profile.

T-72 is 2.23 m in height , T 80 2.202 in height . compared to the Abraham Tank - in height 2.44 m

Add to that the low turret , that the Soviet model usually have , and they have an advantage when hiding and firing behind a hill or a ramp.

Now imagine trying to hide behind a ramp with this contraption attached to your tank. You would be spotted from miles away.




~


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## alimobin memon

Beny Karachun said:


> That KA52 is so garbage honestly, it lacks stabilization, you can see the gunner struggling to keep the sight stabilized on the target, and the pilot is forced to hover.


With respect. I think their is misconception. Due to heavy AD manpads these choppers are flying low and targeting at very long range and there will be some issue of stabilization as they are zooming in at max effective range. Vikhr is a 12km range missile with laser beam guidance so yes the cursor has to be on target to keep it on lock mode. Laser beam is not NLOS but LOS missile so there will be these issues.

Honestly, I am puzzled by the reaction of PDF members as if Russian hardware is not good. Which is not true apart from tanks everything is working as good as any war machine. You are in enemy territory backed by NATO support and large no. of manpads. Even other choppers like Apache, Tiger, Cobra would face the same.

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## AlKardai

ZeGerman said:


> Ah that must be why we so generously allow muslim immigration and mosques in our countries….populations growing tenfold…
> Or saved kosovo from the serbs…
> Or give so much food and monetary aid…
> 
> Because “west hates muslims”…smh
> 
> Oh please…”muslim” power plummeted after ottoman collapse. If russia and west (two superpowers) were truly intent to “destroy the muslims” you would have seen “the disappearing christians in Middle East/Armenian marches/uyghur re-education” worldwide and there was nothing anyone would be able to do against it.
> 
> Simple example:
> People on this thread cry about Nato vs Afghanistan….afghan life expectancy greatly increased during Nato occupation…but yeah…the “evil west” wants to “destroy muslims”…please this is demonizing and generalizing to the level of the kristallnacht…stop spreading these hatefull lies.
> 
> West scores much much better on human rights, rule of law, freedoms, upward social mobility on minorities then how minorities are treated in muslim countries….
> Fact
> 
> 
> Thats why half of europe came running to Nato.



I don’t think that they want to destroy or harm Muslims- rather, they see Islam as an ideological threat.

Islam is practically the only religion that successfully managed to fit the tandem of state politics and matters of the religion, as seen in its dominance of the Middle East, and parts of Europe, Asia and Africa.

The point is that Islam is not only a religion, but a style of World order- and one that challenges both the Eastern and Western Bloc.

At the same time, neither of them wish to eliminate Islam, because it plays as a major balancing act in the geopolitical stage of the world. This is done by using moderately powerful Islamic Nations to
Limit the power of each bloc’s enemies. For example, the US limits the Iranian Bloc with Saudi (I know this is changing) and in the same way has limited the India/Russia bloc with Pakistan.

In short, Islam can be used to a greater benefit for different geopolitical blocs, than if it was to be properly eradicated.

However, it would definitely be a threat to the world order if the blocs have no use for them- as seen in China, where China wants the Uyghurs to assimilate with the Han Chinese, as the Uyghurs bring them no use, except from being a threat to their world order


This is why they tend to use different Muslim countries to limit each other, by keeping them divided, as this means that the other ideological blocs don’t even need to put boots on the ground to make sure that Islam does not become a superpower once again


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## alimobin memon

Proud of Ukrainians fighting like its the last fight. But, they are stuck in a WAR where it is just used as a battlefield to decide if West or Russia have control in the region.


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## Broccoli

alimobin memon said:


> Proud of Ukrainians fighting like its the last fight. But, they are stuck in a WAR where it is just used as a battlefield to decide if West or Russia have control in the region.



Wrong, it's Russians who are fighting like it would their last fight, and that because Russians begun this war would over fast, but now nine months later they can't find way out without losing their face. Putin & Co thought that it would end fast, that's why units going towards Kyiv had riot gear with them, and making Ukraine landlocked nation become only a dream after Russians got stuck in Kherson what they recently lost. 

Question isn't "Can Ukraine win" but "can Russia survive if it loses in Ukraine?".


Now Russian strategy is to rely on 300.000 light infantry soldiers and apparently commit WW I style human wave attacks against Ukrainian positions.

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## thetutle

ZeGerman said:


> Ah that must be why we so generously allow muslim immigration and mosques in our countries….populations growing tenfold…


Not generously, they are being allowed in with much moaning and right wing backlash. Mosques are banned from being built and its always a problem to get permits. One country proudly boast that it has no mosques. Population is growing and there are calls for genocide and deportations and police dont do anything to stop this speech. 


ZeGerman said:


> Or saved kosovo from the serbs…


Well thats true. Probably because they didn't want 2 million Albanian muslims to move to the EU. 


ZeGerman said:


> Or give so much food and monetary aid…


Well thats true. It looks bad when there are starving kids on TV. 


ZeGerman said:


> Oh please…”muslim” power plummeted after ottoman collapse. If russia and west (two superpowers) were truly intent to “destroy the muslims” you would have seen “the disappearing christians in Middle East/Armenian marches/uyghur re-education” worldwide and there was nothing anyone would be able to do against it.


Ottomans collapsed because the europeans crushed them. Russia particularly. But France and UK also. 


ZeGerman said:


> West scores much much better on human rights, rule of law, freedoms, upward social mobility on minorities then how minorities are treated in muslim countries….
> Fact


yeah. and. are you suggesting west should treat the muslims like some undeveloped country treats its minorities. I thought the west is better than that? I thought the west had morals. 


ZeGerman said:


> Thats why half of europe came running to Nato.


Well, all of europe actually.



sammuel said:


> One of the few advantages of the Russian tanks are their low profile.


Low profile vs a missile that descends from above. hmmmmmm, yeah not much help.

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## reflecthofgeismar

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL just admit you guys can't compete against Cambodia in zero covid.
> 
> The reason China even exist in the first place is because the US help your country in the 1st place against the Japanese. Not to mention both Nixon, Clinton & Carter admin helping admit China to the WTO and helping to invest in the country.
> 
> You people are the definition of ungrateful.
> 
> Something something war crime
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592071510176731137



At least they are improving and hard-working, something you can't say about most other money/aid supported non-European/Eastern Asian Countries...


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## alimobin memon

Broccoli said:


> Wrong, it's Russians who are fighting like it would their last fight, and that because Russians begun this war would over fast, but now nine months later they can't find way out without losing their face. Putin & Co thought that it would end fast, that's why units going towards Kyiv had riot gear with them, and making Ukraine landlocked nation become only a dream after Russians got stuck in Kherson what they recently lost.
> 
> Question isn't "Can Ukraine win" but "can Russia survive if it loses in Ukraine?".
> 
> 
> Now Russian strategy is to rely on 300.000 light infantry soldiers and apparently commit WW I style human wave attacks against Ukrainian positions.


Putin might be overthrown but there wont be any effect on Russia as a country.


----------



## LeGenD

sammuel said:


> One of the few advantages of the Russian tanks are their low profile.
> 
> T-72 is 2.23 m in height , T 80 2.202 in height . compared to the Abraham Tank - in height 2.44 m
> 
> Add to that the low turret , that the Soviet model usually have , and they have an advantage when hiding and firing behind a hill or a ramp.
> 
> Now imagine trying to hide behind a ramp with this contraption attached to your tank. You would be spotted from miles away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


M1 Abrams is very quiet for an MBT due to its engine technology. It can be blended with geographical features and used to snipe at enemy positions from a distance. It comes down to competence of troops as well.

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## ZeGerman

thetutle said:


> Not generously, they are being allowed in with much moaning and right wing backlash.


West has one of the most tolerant policy regarding migration and refugees. Seeing millions settle there.

Stands at the top regarding minority rights, allowing those minorities to grow, study, own land.

To such an extent, that it is voluntarily getting multicultural at a speed unprecendented in history. 

Simple matter of knowledge of history and geopolitics. 
How many rohingya did china settle? 
Thailand you cant even own anything as a farang. Etc etc etc. 




thetutle said:


> Mosques are banned from being built and its always a problem to get permits.



In all west? Filthy lie. 


thetutle said:


> One country proudly boast that it has no mosques. Population is growing and there are calls for genocide and deportations and police dont do anything to stop this speech.


By fringe right. And call for violence speech is outlawed in most states.

More lies. 


thetutle said:


> Well thats true. Probably because they didn't want 2 million Albanian muslims to move to the EU.


We already have millions of muslims…more demonization.

So far i only see baseless attacks on me simply stating facts….


thetutle said:


> Well thats true. It looks bad when there are starving kids on TV.
> 
> Ottomans collapsed because the europeans crushed them. Russia particularly. But France and UK also.


And muslims were weak like a starving kid….yet west did not “destroy all muslims” did they? 
Constant deflecting the point arent you? 



thetutle said:


> yeah. and. are you suggesting west should treat the muslims like some undeveloped country treats its minorities. I thought the west is better than that? I thought the west had morals.
> Well, all of europe actually.


Nope. Simply that the west treats their minorities better. Fact.

And then you come and demonize that same west while bosnians use to play football with heads of serbian christian civilians…And minorities in whole muslim world have it a lot worse…

Cant you see how ridiculous that is? 
Look at yourself before throwing stones at others….

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## ZeGerman

[SSG]Q266 said:


> I don’t think that they want to destroy or harm Muslims- rather, they see Islam as an ideological threat.
> 
> Islam is practically the only religion that successfully managed to fit the tandem of state politics and matters of the religion, as seen in its dominance of the Middle East, and parts of Europe, Asia and Africa.
> 
> The point is that Islam is not only a religion, but a style of World order- and one that challenges both the Eastern and Western Bloc.
> 
> At the same time, neither of them wish to eliminate Islam, because it plays as a major balancing act in the geopolitical stage of the world. This is done by using moderately powerful Islamic Nations to
> Limit the power of each bloc’s enemies. For example, the US limits the Iranian Bloc with Saudi (I know this is changing) and in the same way has limited the India/Russia bloc with Pakistan.
> 
> In short, Islam can be used to a greater benefit for different geopolitical blocs, than if it was to be properly eradicated.
> 
> However, it would definitely be a threat to the world order if the blocs have no use for them- as seen in China, where China wants the Uyghurs to assimilate with the Han Chinese, as the Uyghurs bring them no use, except from being a threat to their world order
> 
> 
> This is why they tend to use different Muslim countries to limit each other, by keeping them divided, as this means that the other ideological blocs don’t even need to put boots on the ground to make sure that Islam does not become a superpower once again


This is closer to the situation yes. 
Its how geopolitics is often played (by expansionist powers/ideologies). Divide and conquer. Enemy of my enemy is my friend. Pit parties against each other. 

though “islam” is not fixed in practice. Depends on the ideology/interpretation.

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## AlKardai

ZeGerman said:


> This is closer to the situation yes.
> Its how geopolitics is often played (by expansionist powers/ideologies). Divide and conquer. Enemy of my enemy is my friend. Pit parties against each other.
> 
> though “islam” is not fixed in practice. Depends on the ideology/interpretation.



within Islam, there have always been smaller divides, that have been enlarged to keep the overall power limited.

This is shown during the Shia/Sunni Divide as well as the fact that three empires claimed the caliphate simultaneously.


----------



## thetutle

sammuel said:


> One of the few advantages of the Russian tanks are their low profile.


Low profile vs a missile that descends from above. hmmmmmm, yeah not much help.

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## thetutle

ZeGerman said:


> Stands at the top regarding minority rights, allowing those minorities to grow, study, own land.
> 
> To such an extent, that it is voluntarily getting multicultural at a speed unprecendented in history.


Its getting multicultural simply because they couldn't hold back the tide of humanity that wants a better life. If you are a victim of colonial misdeeds, the west is still a better place than a third world developing country.


ZeGerman said:


> Thailand you cant even own anything as a farang. Etc etc etc.


I know farang that own apartments there. so you are making it up.


ZeGerman said:


> In all west? Filthy lie.


not all the west, but from place to place. To build a mosque in Australia you need 400 parking spaces, churches everywhere without a single parking space. How long did it take to build a mosque in Slovenia? one mosque per 70,000 - 100,000 muslims. And the muslims there are white. Imagine when dark muslims move to Slovenia.



ZeGerman said:


> By fringe right. And call for violence speech is outlawed in most states.


Hate speech and violent speech is illegal in France except when directed against muslims. Anyone can pretty much say anything about Muslims in most of the west. If you take right wing articles and speeches about mutism and replace the word "muslims" with the word "jews" you will go to jail in france in particular. FACT.


ZeGerman said:


> And muslims were weak like a starving kid….yet west did not “destroy all muslims” did they?


Well the west is not a genocidal maniac civilisation. There has been no policy of genocide on a massive scale so far against muslims. But they atomised and conquered them. colonisation and neo colonisation. not quite total biological destruction. but not really benevolent. Just ask, do you want mzusklism to do to your county what you did to theirs? if you are cool with that. awesome. It may just happen one day, never know.


ZeGerman said:


> And then you come and demonize that same west while bosnians use to play football with heads of serbian christian civilians…And minorities in whole muslim world have it a lot worse…


Oh the poor Serbian christian civilians living under the evil "muuuzlims", most of europe still cries for their suffering. They aren't even allowed to commit genocide against muslims anymore. So sad right?


----------



## jhungary

News from Telegram. Ukraine retake control of Makiivka, after the Russian counter attacked into the area. 









Armed Forces of Ukraine liberate Makiivka in Luhansk Oblast


The Defence Forces have regained control of the village of Makiivka, Svatove district, Luhansk Oblast. Source: Luhansk blast Military Administration Quote: "News from the front in Luhansk Oblast: the village of Makiivka, in the Krasnorichenske hromada in Svatove district, is moving to the 'blue...




news.yahoo.com





Russian counter attacked, Ukrainian pull back and then drop arty on the advancing Russian.......Report suggest over 300 Russian killed (Probably exaggerated) so basically Russian wasted whatever manpower they have and get slaughtered and then pushed back...


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592494307466149889


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## jhungary

There is this video circulating on Telegram where a formation of 4 RHIB quickly flew off at sea, this was supposed to be Ukrainian Special Force travel to the other side of the Kinburn Peninsula

This is not authenticated tho

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## One_Nation

thetutle said:


> Well the west is not a genocidal maniac civilisation. There has been no policy of genocide on a massive scale so far against muslims. But they atomised and conquered them. colonisation and neo colonisation. not quite total biological destruction. but not really benevolent. Just ask, do you want mzusklism to do to your county what you did to theirs? if you are cool with that. awesome. It may just happen one day, never know.


One of the basic principles of colonizing Europeans is not to kill the enemy but to keep them backwards to subjugate and use them. In other words slavery. Hitler had noted this in his book. The west does not follow Hitler but they follow the same philosophy about non-whites.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592506019724558338

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## thetutle

One_Nation said:


> One of the basic principles of colonizing Europeans is not to kill the enemy but to keep them backwards to subjugate and use them. In other words slavery. Hitler had noted this in his book. The west does not follow Hitler but they follow the same philosophy about non-whites.


This is very true. The west as opposed to the nazis never undertook such wholesale genocide with the aim of eliminating groups. We wont count the Bengali famine where maybe 4 million died, because frankly, it wasn't aimed at the bangalis. Had Pashtuns lived there they would have had the famine. So in a way the west doesn't care who gets genocided or who gets the famine, so long its not them. Where as the nazis ensured only the people they disliked got genocided. 

Now its now its not slavery as you say, its more exploitation. And to its credit, living under the western system is much better than the alternatives. Ukrainians seem to think so. I think so too.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592514734846537729


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592486075301339137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592486835544260610

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592519291836194819

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Missile rain on the Zelenkynite satan worshippers has been stepped up by Russian defenders. 








Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592514734846537729

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592538826333114368
Russia while suffering setbacks on the battlefield continue to target Ukrainian civilian infrastructures while having no major impact on the battlefield, will not make Ukraine surrender and will only force western countries to saturate Ukrainian skies with air defence systems.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592536584511193088

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592538826333114368
> Russia while suffering setbacks on the battlefield continue to target Ukrainian civilian infrastructures while having no major impact on the battlefield, will not make Ukraine surrender and will only force western countries to saturate Ukrainian skies with air defence systems.



Not sure what Russia is trying to achieve here other than terrorizing Ukrainian civilians, because these attacks are having no impact on the actual battlefield. 

It seems Russia is far more focused on terrorizing Ukrainians than actually defeating the Ukrainian military.

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## alimobin memon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592536584511193088


Clear proof russia is looking for slow and lengthy war.

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> Not sure what Russia is trying to achieve here other than terrorizing Ukrainian civilians, because these attacks are having no impact on the actual battlefield.
> 
> It seems Russia is far more focused on terrorizing Ukrainians than actually defeating the Ukrainian military.


maybe just increase the cost to ukraine. Israeli style tactics. Suppose ukraine regains all its land, and Russia decides to eliminate all ukranian civilian infrastructure by constantly lobbing long range missiles at ukraine. Thats one way it could achieve some territorial concessions perhaps. How could ukraine counter it?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

sammuel said:


> One of the few advantages of the Russian tanks are their low profile.
> 
> T-72 is 2.23 m in height , T 80 2.202 in height . compared to the Abraham Tank - in height 2.44 m
> 
> Add to that the low turret , that the Soviet model usually have , and they have an advantage when hiding and firing behind a hill or a ramp.
> 
> Now imagine trying to hide behind a ramp with this contraption attached to your tank. You would be spotted from miles away.


The Soviet models typically are at a disadvantage when hiding behind a slope because the gun cannot be lowered that much.
The tank must be on the top of the slope rather than behind the slope.
This limitation in Soviet tanks cost the Syrians dearly in the 1973 October War.



One_Nation said:


> One of the basic principles of colonizing Europeans is not to kill the enemy but to keep them backwards to subjugate and use them. In other words slavery. Hitler had noted this in his book. The west does not follow Hitler but they follow the same philosophy about non-whites.


The maybe learned from the Muslims which went slave hunting as far north as Iceland.

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## Soldier35

The Ukrainian army received American repair and recovery vehicles M984A4 on the chassis of a HEMTT truck. The car was seen on the video of one of the Ukrainian servicemen. M984A4 is designed for evacuation of damaged wheeled vehicles. The two-door front HEMTT control cabin accommodates two people and is armored. A machine gun mount with a gunner's protection kit can be installed on the machine. The HEMTT A4 model is equipped with a 515 hp Caterpillar diesel engine. All HEMTT trucks are able to overcome water obstacles up to 1.2 meters deep and slopes of at least 60%.






Footage of a tank battle in Ukraine. The battle between the Russian T-72B3 tank and the Ukrainian T-72M tank, these tanks were recently transferred by Poland to the Ukrainian army. Judging by the video, the crew of the Ukrainian tank did not understand where they were firing from, the driver of the Ukrainian tank managed to leave the burning tank.






In Ukraine, they showed a new reconnaissance UAV SHARK, designed to adjust fire and reconnaissance. The SHARK drone is launched from a catapult and lands with a parachute. The developers report the camera's ability to magnify the image by 30 times. The drone is equipped with an encrypted communication system and, according to the developers, is completely Ukrainian. It should be noted that it is not known who in Ukraine can produce cameras of this quality. The maximum range of the drone is 60 kilometers, the altitude of use is up to 2000 meters. The SHARK UAV can stay in the air for about 2 hours. The maximum flight speed is 150 km/h. The UAV has a small size of 1.91 and weighs 10 kg.






For some unknown reason, one of the Ukrainian tanks decided to conduct reconnaissance alone. The tank advanced without support towards the Russian positions where it was ambushed, as it was immediately spotted from the air by special forces. At a crossroads, a Ukrainian tank was hit by a Russian tank at close range.






An episode of one of the battles in Ukraine. In the video, two Russian tanks, taking risks, literally burst into the positions of the Ukrainian army and start shooting point-blank at the trenches. The lead tank is blown up by a mine, despite the damage, the crew continues to fight. Then the Ukrainian soldiers begin to throw grenades at the tanks, at this time the Russian infantry approaches and begins to storm the positions of the Ukrainian army.

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> maybe just increase the cost to ukraine. Israeli style tactics. Suppose ukraine regains all its land, and Russia decides to eliminate all ukranian civilian infrastructure by constantly lobbing long range missiles at ukraine. Thats one way it could achieve some territorial concessions perhaps. How could ukraine counter it?



Simplest option — wait. At most, Russia has missiles for 10 more attacks of this scale.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592519291836194819



Read comments on twitter, he is only a lieutenant. On other hand, a good news:

_THEY STARTED PULLING 50 YEARS OLD LIEUTENANTS FROM RESERVES!_

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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> he maybe learned from the Muslims which went slave hunting as far north as Iceland.


Slavery is in the bible. Christians had it before muslims.

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## Dalit

Situation 'critical' after wave of Russian missiles - Ukraine



https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-63593855

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> No Shahed or cruise missile strikes in the last week.


Only logical reason for that is a secret negotiations going on on behind the scenes.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592574320517468167

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592575168412778498

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## 925boy

alimobin memon said:


> Clear proof russia is looking for slow and lengthy war.


because Ukraine cant win in such long war situation..

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Situation 'critical' after wave of Russian missiles - Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-63593855




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592573015556247552

How’s that Russian offensive going?

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## Daylamite Warrior

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592573015556247552
> 
> How’s that Russian offensive going?



No use in having a city when all its people are living like cavemen lol get your priorities straight.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592574320517468167
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592575168412778498



What a load of bollocks! All those supposed hitrates yet Ukraine is in darkness and in criticial situation according to their own words. Unverfied BS like this needs to be taken down.

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## Shawnee

Paul2 said:


> Simplest option — wait. At most, Russia has missiles for 10 more attacks of this scale.
> 
> 
> 
> Read comments on twitter, he is only a lieutenant. On other hand, a good news:
> 
> _THEY STARTED PULLING 50 YEARS OLD LIEUTENANTS FROM RESERVES!_



If ballistic missiles arrive from Iran, it can be easily more than 5000 per year.

Iran fired 70 at Iraqi separatist Kurds only yesterday.


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## Daylamite Warrior

Dalit said:


> Situation 'critical' after wave of Russian missiles - Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-63593855



These Ukrnazis claiming to shoot down missiles yet theyre also critical. What a bunch lying toerags these Ukrnazis are.

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## Shawnee

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592574320517468167
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592575168412778498



Yesterday they claimed no more Shahed attacks while Shahed videos were streaming nightly.

Now this claim.

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## F-22Raptor

Once again, how is that Russian offensive going?  

Terrorizing Ukrainian civilians won’t change anything on the actual battlefield

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> Once again, how is that Russian offensive going?
> 
> Terrorizing Ukrainian civilians won’t change anything on the actual battlefield



damn if confirmed..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592581319758053376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592581381791834114

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> damn if confirmed..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592581319758053376
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592581381791834114




If true, there needs to be a response from NATO. A strike on a Russian base or sinking a Russian ship or submarine

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## walterbibikow

Apparently Russia’s internal guidance and targeting system for its cruise missiles is: west. Just “west”

Absolutely insanity lol


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592573015556247552
> 
> How’s that Russian offensive going?



LOL Dude, Russia has annexed sizeable Ukrainian territory as their own. The Russians left Kherson themselves.


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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> LOL Dude, Russia has annexed huge Ukrainian territory as their own.



They’ve lost 50% of the territory they gained in March and just lost Kherson. Ukraine has all the momentum. 

Terrorizing Ukrainians isn’t going to change anything on the battlefield

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> If true, there needs to be a response from NATO. A strike on a Russian base or sinking a Russian ship or submarine



Nigga, what are you or NATO exactly going to do? Spell it out for me.



F-22Raptor said:


> They’ve lost 50% of the territory they gained in March and just lost Kherson. Ukraine has all the momentum.
> 
> Terrorizing Ukrainians isn’t going to change anything on the battlefield



Russians still hold significant amount of Ukrainian territory.

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## Dalit

85 missiles hit Ukraine, 20 more expected - Zelensky
President Volodymyr Zelensky has said that 85 missiles were launched against Ukraine on Tuesday and 20 more are expected to hit the country.

In a video shared on Telegram, he also warned residents to stay in shelters.

The deputy head of the president's office, Kyrylo Tymoshenko, said the situation across the country was "critical" after missiles battered energy facilities, forcing emergency shutdowns and plunging parts of Kyiv into darkness.

"Russian terrorists carried out another planned attack on energy infrastructure facilities," he said.

The situation in the capital Kyiv was, he added, "extremely difficult".



https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-63593855

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592589468460285952

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## Dalit

Largest attack on energy infrastructure to date - Ukraine
Ukraine's Energy Minister Herman Halushchenko has said that Tuesday's attack on the Ukrainian energy system is the largest since Russia's war on Ukraine started on 24 February.



https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-63593855



In Poland, a Warm Welcome for Ukrainian Refugees Wobbles









In Poland, a Warm Welcome for Ukrainian Refugees Wobbles


Poland took in millions of people fleeing the war in Ukraine. But a vocal minority is trying to stoke tensions as Russian attacks threaten to prompt a new surge.




www.nytimes.com













Ukraine’s envoy blasts Israeli ‘summons’ as ties deteriorate


Amid rising tensions, Yevgen Korniychuk expresses anger over barriers for citizens trying to enter Israel, disappointment over recent UN vote




www.timesofisrael.com





Amid rising tensions, Yevgen Korniychuk expresses anger over barriers for citizens trying to enter Israel, disappointment over recent UN vote

Ukraine’s envoy to Israel on Tuesday condemned the country’s restrictions on the entry of Ukrainians into the country during a meeting at the Foreign Ministry. The officials from both countries met amid rising tensions between the countries surrounding the war in Europe.

Kyiv’s Ambassador Yevgen Korniychuk responded to the Foreign Ministry saying he had been “summoned” with the angry retort that “They can say whatever they want.”


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> They’ve lost 50% of the territory they gained in March and just lost Kherson. Ukraine has all the momentum.
> 
> Terrorizing Ukrainians isn’t going to change anything on the battlefield


Russia also lost Kinburn Peninsula as well, that has been confirmed.









Ukrainian Troops Release Amphibious Assault Footage from Kinburn


Footage released to TikTok by Ukrainian forces shows the beginning phase of an amphibious assault against the Kinburn Peninsula.




www.funker530.com





And report suggest that Ukrainian is pushing toward Kreminna and also Nova Kakovka

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## Dalit

UN calls for Russia to pay reparations to Ukraine. How did countries vote?

Ninety-four members voted for the UN General Assembly resolution, with 14 against and 73 abstaining.






Just by looking at this map people can draw conclusions. You can safely add 73 to 14.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Nigga, what are you or NATO exactly going to do? Spell it out for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Russians still hold significant amount of Ukrainian territory.
> 
> View attachment 896814



They hold 15%. All of the momentum is with the Ukrainian military

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> They hold 15%. All of the momentum is with the Ukrainian military



Dude, Russia is hellbent on destroying power grids in Ukraine. They are pounding Ukraine every week. The damage that has already been inflicted is sizeable. Expect Ukraine to suffer badly during the winter.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Dude, Russia is hellbent on destroying power grids in Ukraine. They are pounding Ukraine every week. The damage that has already been inflicted is sizeable. Expect Ukraine to suffer badly during the winter.



Russia just lost the most strategically important city left on the battlefield. Destroying power grids won’t change anything, and just hardens Ukrainians will to resist.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia just lost the most strategically important city left on the battlefield. Destroying power grids won’t change anything, and just hardens Ukrainians will to resist.



We will see. Russia didn't lose anything. They left certain areas partially. The Russians will return when they deem right. What makes you think that Russia won't return in these areas? This war is far from over.

Have you had a look at the vote map that I posted? Your own allies are abstaining fron outrightly voting for Ukraine. Why?

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## BHAN85

Polish premier calls urgent meeting of national security committee


Polish prime minister has called an urgent meeting of a committee for national security and defense affairs, the government spokesman said on twitter on Tuesday.




www.reuters.com

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> We will see. Russia didn't lose anything. They left certain areas partially. The Russians will return when they deem right. What makes you think that Russia won't return in these areas? This war is far from over.
> 
> Have you had a look at the vote map that I posted? Your own allies are abstaining fron outrightly voting for Ukraine. Why?




Russia is never returning to Kherson. All of the strategic momentum is with Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592596493252591617


----------



## ZeGerman

thetutle said:


> Its getting multicultural simply because they couldn't hold back the tide of humanity that wants a better life. If you are a victim of colonial misdeeds, the west is still a better place than a third world developing country.


And you cannot control the border like hungary, israel, australia, japan? 

Its tolerance. 
I didnt see those migrants forcing the border open at gunpoint. 



thetutle said:


> I know farang that own apartments there. so you are making it up.


Was talking about land. 


thetutle said:


> not all the west, but from place to place.


Then why are you generalizing like a redneck? 


thetutle said:


> To build a mosque in Australia you need 400 parking spaces, churches everywhere without a single parking space. How long did it take to build a mosque in Slovenia? one mosque per 70,000 - 100,000 muslims. And the muslims there are white. Imagine when dark muslims move to Slovenia.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_Europe. 









Islam in Europe - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





“West wants to destroy muslims”
Dont make me laugh. Just admit you were demonizing with shit statements buddy. 



thetutle said:


> Hate speech and violent speech is illegal in France except when directed against muslims. Anyone can pretty much say anything about Muslims in most of the west. If you take right wing articles and speeches about mutism and replace the word "muslims" with the word "jews" you will go to jail in france in particular. FACT.
> 
> Well the west is not a genocidal maniac civilisation.


But “west want to destroy muslims” remember? 


thetutle said:


> There has been no policy of genocide on a massive scale so far against muslims. But they atomised and conquered them. colonisation and neo colonisation. not quite total biological destruction. but not really benevolent.


Like the barbary states and ottomans were oh so benevolent for europeans? 


thetutle said:


> Just ask, do you want mzusklism to do to your county what you did to theirs? if you are cool with that. awesome. It may just happen one day, never know.
> 
> Oh the poor Serbian christian civilians living under the evil "muuuzlims", most of europe still cries for their suffering. They aren't even allowed to commit genocide against muslims anymore. So sad right?

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## Daylamite Warrior

@Deino keep negative rating me, you will just make me do it more and more and more. Youre abusing your "power"! 

Ukronazis are liars, no way 73 missiles shot down. More like 73 missiles got through. Not the first time Ukrnazis lied about these sort of things.

@waz @LeGenD why is a mod negative rating people they dont agree with? That's like being penalised for having a different opinion which is not how an impartial mod should behave. I understand having different opinions is allowed but why do we have a member of authority defaming users here they dont agree with? Isn't this an abuse of power? Why can't we all have this ability to negative rate?

Mind you, when I see users with negative ratings I generally flock to them so it is counter productive.

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## BHAN85

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592596493252591617


I guess that Russia knew too exactly where they were launching the missiles: NATO soil.

It's a Russian provocation, maybe Lavrov got some unliked news in Bali.

My bet is: NATO will do nothing, Art 5 is bluff to deceive fools.


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## Daylamite Warrior

F-22Raptor said:


> If true, there needs to be a response from NATO. A strike on a Russian base or sinking a Russian ship or submarine



You wouldn't be able to handle the nukes!



BHAN85 said:


> I guess that Russia knew too exactly where they were launching the missiles: NATO soil.
> 
> It's a Russian provocation, maybe Lavrov got some unliked news in Bali.
> 
> My bet is: NATO will do nothing, Art 5 is bluff to deceive fools.



More likely a falseflag by the ones who have done false flags in the past. NATO wouldnt be able to handle the nukes so they wont do anything.

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## BHAN85

Daylamite Warrior said:


> You wouldn't be able to handle the nukes!
> 
> 
> 
> More likely a falseflag by the ones who have done false flags in the past. NATO wouldnt be able to handle the nukes so they wont do anything.



If Kremlin dont launch one millions attacks in NATO soil is due to cowardice, it's not due to Kremlin serial killers good willing.

If it's a Western false flag, then that means that Kremlin is so coward as always .

But I dont think so. My bet is that it was a real Russia provocation.

We'll see.

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## Daylamite Warrior

BHAN85 said:


> If Kremlin dont launch one millions attacks in NATO soil is due to cowardice, it's not due to Kremlin serial killers good willing.
> 
> If it's a Western false flag, then that means that Kremlin is so coward as always .
> 
> But I dont think so. My bet is that it was a real Russia provocation.
> 
> We'll see.



Lol that didnt make any sense. How is a NATO falseflag evidence that Russia is a coward? Surely that would mean Ukraine and Poland are the real cowards because they need to lie to get Uncle Sam to fight their battle.

I could easily turn that around and say that the fact US hasnt attacked Russian soil is because of cowardice. Serial killing Nazis is doing God's work!

What you think is irrelevant since cow dung doesnt have the ability to think. Just pipe dreams. Nothing will happen lol


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## BHAN85

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Lol that didnt make any sense. How is a NATO falseflag evidence that Russia is a coward? Surely that would mean Ukraine and Poland are the real cowards because they need to lie to get Uncle Sam to fight their battle.
> 
> I could easily turn that around and say that the fact US hasnt attacked Russian soil is because of cowardice. Serial killing Nazis is doing God's work!
> 
> What you think is irrelevant since cow dung doesnt have the ability to think. Just pipe dreams. Nothing will happen lol



It's Kremlin cowardice when Poland is smuggling a lot of advanced weapons to kill Russian soldiers in Ukraine, and Kremlin does nothing.

Kremlin respects more NATO than Russian soldiers lives, because they are a bunch of cowards.

A less Western-Cocksucker country would wipe out from the face of Earth the Polish military bases that receive weapons to kill Russians since the first day.

But Russia elite loves more West than own people, they enjoy a rich life of luxuries here and they dont want leave it.


----------



## jhungary

Daylamite Warrior said:


> @jhungary has a micropenis lol


@Deino

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## Daylamite Warrior

BHAN85 said:


> It's Kremlin cowardice when Poland is smuggling a lot of advanced weapons to kill Russian soldiers in Ukraine, and Kremlin does nothing.
> 
> Kremlin respects more NATO than Russian soldiers lives, because they are a bunch of cowards.



Right, that has nothing to do with falseflags or what you said earlier. Try to think a little more coherently. Russia has been taking out plenty of those advanced weapons with Iranian drones. Your head is so far up Ukraine's arse you can't see whats happening.

Russia literally threw a bunch of missiles and a missiles on NATO territory and doesnt seem to care. They know NATO are the real cowards who dont have balls for a nuke war with Russia. Nothing will happen! Lol



jhungary said:


> @Deino



Ah getting other men to fight your battles again. They can stretch it out for you and make it bigger, surgical procedures have advanced jhunglikeashrimp lol

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## Viet

Endkampf

Russians getting sleepless they digging trenches in Crimea.

the Crimea is within range of Ukraine artillery.



https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russians-dig-trenches-in-crimea-near-mainland-ukraine/


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## Daylamite Warrior

BHAN85 said:


> A less Western-Cocksucker country would wipe out from the face of Earth the Polish military bases that receive weapons to kill Russians since the first day.
> 
> But Russia elite loves more West than own people, they enjoy a rich life of luxuries here and they dont want leave it.



A coward editor? That first paragraph didn't make sense. The world doesnt work like that, nothing would happen if Poland did this. Even Iran got away with destroying US bases without any response. Same with this, NATO wont do anything against 6000 odd nukes.

And that's why Putin has them under check! Those oligarchs are your people, not Putin's. The joke is on you.

@jhungary needs testosterone treatment.

@jhungary is powerless, all he can do is press a button sat in mummy's house.

@jhungary hasnt been in a military uniform in his life. He's a fraud.

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## BHAN85

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Right, that has nothing to do with falseflags or what you said earlier. Try to think a little more coherently. Russia has been taking out plenty of those advanced weapons with Iranian drones. Your head is so far up Ukraine's arse you can't see whats happening.
> 
> Russia literally threw a bunch of missiles and a missiles on NATO territory and doesnt seem to care. They know NATO are the real cowards who dont have balls for a nuke war with Russia. Nothing will happen! Lol
> 
> 
> 
> Ah getting other men to fight your battles again. They can stretch it out for you and make it bigger, surgical procedures have advanced jhunglikeashrimp lol


We'll see but I think the timing with G20 meeting in Bali is not a coincidence.

They could have launched that strike before, but they did today.

Lavrov must be angry and jealous because Biden doesnt take pics with him and sniff his hair.

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## Daylamite Warrior

BHAN85 said:


> We'll see but I think the timing with G20 meeting in Bali is not a coincidence.
> 
> They could have launched that strike before, but they did today.
> 
> Lavrov must be angry and jealous because Biden doesnt take pics with him and sniff his hair.



The timing makes it more of a reason to believe it's a western falseflag. No but Biden is sniffing the hair of Putin's number one ally lol! Jokes on you again lol!


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Endkampf
> 
> Russians getting sleepless they digging trenches in Crimea.
> 
> the Crimea is within range of Ukraine artillery.
> 
> 
> 
> https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russians-dig-trenches-in-crimea-near-mainland-ukraine/
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 896826


Yeah, that's really hurt, there are rumour that Ukrainian have breached the other side of Dnieper in 3 points (The Kinburn, Oleshky and Nova Kakovkha). The kinburn is already confirmed, if the other 2 is true, that's a big progress

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## BHAN85

Daylamite Warrior said:


> The timing makes it more of a reason to believe it's a western falseflag. No but Biden is sniffing the hair of Putin's number one ally lol! Jokes on you again lol!


I think Chinese elite loves more USA than Russia.

If you are rich, do you would spend your money in Miami or in Siberia?

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## Daylamite Warrior

BHAN85 said:


> I think Chinese elite loves more USA than Russia.
> 
> If you are rich, do you would spend your money in Miami or in Siberia?



They make money out of US, then they veto sanctions and give the money to Russia and Iran for oil and other things. 

Neither! Lol the world is a big place.

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## Falcon29

Russia hits Poland following better than expected Democrat performance in the midterm elections. Russia wants Trump in power for 2024 and will continue to try to destabilize Europe and negatively affect the global economy and energy supply. 

US gov't anticipated this and will respond with sanctions and continued arms support to Ukraine while trying to push ahead with recovery of the economy and post-covid state.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592609913653821440


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## Ali_Baba

Dalit said:


> LOL Dude, Russia has annexed sizeable Ukrainian territory as their own. The Russians left Kherson themselves.



Erm - no - they did not leave themselves - they were kicked out as they were militarily beaten ...

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## jhungary

Falcon29 said:


> Russia hits Poland following better than expected Democrat performance in the midterm elections. Russia wants Trump in power for 2024 and will continue to try to destabilize Europe and negatively affect the global economy and energy supply.
> 
> US gov't anticipated this and will respond with sanctions and continued arms support to Ukraine while trying to push ahead with recovery of the economy and post-covid state.


That probably will result in opposite effect. 

Because Trump are not really a party for EU collective defence, and also everyone know that he has a softspot for Putin, the more he try to destabilase Europe, the more Trump is not going to be elected, and that is before his hand pick candidate is defeated at a 80% rate.

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## Paul2

Yep, 2 missiles flew complex trajectories, evading missile defences, and struck the same target.

Kh-555 is TERCON guided. All this maneuvering required individual programming for the guidance system to recognize all terrain features on the way to the target.


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## Daylamite Warrior

jhungary said:


> Ramzan Kadyrov just declare Jihad on Ukraine and ask Muslim to join......



This is what you're reduced to, posting deepfakes lol

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Yep, 2 missiles flew complex trajectories, evading missile defences, and struck the same target.
> 
> Kh-555 is TERCON guided. All this maneuvering required individual programming for the guidance system to recognize all terrain features on the way to the target.




Poland could respond with JASSM cruise missile strikes

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## BHAN85

Polish whinings are now main headline in Spanish press.

So something will happen. In other case the incident would be minimized in main press.


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## Falcon29

jhungary said:


> That probably will result in opposite effect.
> 
> Because Trump are not really a party for EU collective defence, and also everyone know that he has a softspot for Putin, the more he try to destabilase Europe, the more Trump is not going to be elected, and that is before his hand pick candidate is defeated at a 80% rate.


EU definitely does not want Trump. Russia is betting on halting global recovery and recovery of US economy up to 2024, to give Trump momentum going into presidential elections. Of course we know all of this beforehand and I question Russia's ability to be effective at creating such conditions. It will depend on the desperation of Putin and the political process. Biden will create a political process for sake of de-escalation going into 2024, so I believe we are in good hands. 

Russia may be also testing the waters here and may attempt a strike on supplies from Poland to Ukraine in the future. I do not believe they will cross that line, however. Seems the stage is being set for political process/negotiations.


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## MeFishToo

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Right, that has nothing to do with falseflags or what you said earlier. Try to think a little more coherently. Russia has been taking out plenty of those advanced weapons with Iranian drones. Your head is so far up Ukraine's arse you can't see whats happening.


Exactly when did an iranian drone take out some advanced weapon in Ukraine?

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## aziqbal

I think it was either a broken Russian missile intercepted by Ukraine 

or Ukrainian missile 

before they start WW3 please can we have some clarification from a reliable source ?

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## Daylamite Warrior

MeFishToo said:


> Exactly when did an iranian drone take out some advanced weapon in Ukraine?



Oh dear, have you forgotten about the Russian purchases of Iranian drones wreaking drones on Ukrainian AD? The western media wont shut up about it. I recommend using Google. Ukraine is in darkness, wakey wakey.

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## jhungary

Falcon29 said:


> EU definitely does not want Trump. Russia is betting on halting global recovery and recovery of US economy up to 2024, to give Trump momentum going into presidential elections. Of course we know all of this beforehand and I question Russia's ability to be effective at creating such conditions. It will depend on the desperation of Putin and the political process. Biden will create a political process for sake of de-escalation going into 2024, so I believe we are in good hands.
> 
> Russia may be also testing the waters here and may attempt a strike on supplies from Poland to Ukraine in the future. I do not believe they will cross that line, however. Seems the stage is being set for political process/negotiations.


Would have agreed with you before Mid-term. 

Trump is white hot toxic now for a lot of reason and if Republican uses trump he will most likely lose to any Dem candidate, Biden withstanding, and if Republican ditches Trump, Trump might just go run as an independent and Republican got done again, which is not going to look good for the GOP in 2024. 

Whatever Russia wants to do, it won't have any effect on the ground in Ukraine because that war is dead, Russia will need at least 3 times the strength it has now to push Ukrainian counteroffensive back, and then another 3 times to roll back more Ukrainian ground, and by strength, I don't mean send in the mobik. 

The problem with Russia is always manpower, they can't generate enough manpower in this war, and they can't train enough to face the frontline, and then that time has come and gone, now we are seeing battlefield with Ukrainian usually having 2 to 1 or even 3 to 1 advantage. This war is lost, If Russian is smart, they would retreat and regroup and get more supplies from Iran, Syria, North Korea or China if they are willing to, and then come back again with a organised attack, sending missile won't change the ground situation, sending mobik soldier won't change the ground situation, it only make the war worse for them.

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## F-22Raptor

aziqbal said:


> I think it was either a broken Russian missile intercepted by Ukraine
> 
> or Ukrainian missile
> 
> before they start WW3 please can we have some clarification from a reliable source ?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592615331826405377


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## Turingsage

In UK the Poland missile strike killing 2 farmers in Poland is news running for hours now. UK media is all agog. Attack on one NATO country is an attack on ALL NATO countries is the shrill cry. Pundits from several countries are pontificating.
Its HOT HOT news


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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Exactly when did an iranian drone take out some advanced weapon in Ukraine?


In his wet dream, maybe.


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## Falcon29

Even with article 5, it would be a proportionate response. Fyi, WW3 would be just be war but spread out everywhere else. Economy/infrastructure/supplies will be hit badly, but life still continues. It's not like we will wake up all dead the next morning. It's more like a slow depression. People will no longer live in luxury and excess(except the ultra rich). They'd become more depressed, hopeless, and so forth.

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## AlKardai

Sh*t just got real.

It was nice knowing y'all.

I'll never reach PMA.....
Never become an Officer...
Never be a shahed


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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592615331826405377


If this is true, let's say for argument sake, this is a Russian missile attack on Poland. 

The things we should do is to send in NATO troop in Ukraine, not as a forward fighter, but to guard Ukraine Ground and Air Space, and we move in with all our Anti Air Asset and secure the border for Ukrainian, and then transfer a hell lot of weapon to Ukraine and release the entire Ukrainian military (half of them are currently tasked to defend their own soil), maybe with NATO CAP over Ukrainian Airspace. 

That would probably the adequate response.

But let's wait on the investigation.

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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> Slavery is in the bible. Christians had it before muslims.


Arabs had it before Christians...


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## Falcon29

jhungary said:


> Would have agreed with you before Mid-term.
> 
> Trump is white hot toxic now for a lot of reason and if Republican uses trump he will most likely lose to any Dem candidate, Biden withstanding, and if Republican ditches Trump, Trump might just go run as an independent and Republican got done again, which is not going to look good for the GOP in 2024.
> 
> Whatever Russia wants to do, it won't have any effect on the ground in Ukraine because that war is dead, Russia will need at least 3 times the strength it has now to push Ukrainian counteroffensive back, and then another 3 times to roll back more Ukrainian ground, and by strength, I don't mean send in the mobik.
> 
> The problem with Russia is always manpower, they can't generate enough manpower in this war, and they can't train enough to face the frontline, and then that time has come and gone, now we are seeing battlefield with Ukrainian usually having 2 to 1 or even 3 to 1 advantage. This war is lost, If Russian is smart, they would retreat and regroup and get more supplies from Iran, Syria, North Korea or China if they are willing to, and then come back again with a organised attack, sending missile won't change the ground situation, sending mobik soldier won't change the ground situation, it only make the war worse for them.


Interesting, you make good points. China does not seem to be behind Russia and wants a settlement. Russia is maybe hoping it can annex those two territories where it declared as Russian , and end the war. Ukraine does not seem down for that so Russia is stuck. Putin doesn't seem to have an exit plan. If the West can provide for him an exit plan where he can save some face, I'd say the war would be behind us. 

About Trump, yeah, he is detrimental to the success of the Republican party. He has no shot at reelection if nominated. I don't understand why Republican party doesn't nominate DeSantis for 24', as he would actually have a chance. As you said if Trump counters by running independent , it will split the vote. There is still around 10-15% of only-Trumpers in the party. If GOP can get them to rally around DeSantis , we could see Republicans take the presidency in 24', imo. Tough choices ahead for the GOP.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592617518413512704
NASAMS hit every target fired at today

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## Ali_Baba

Looks like there will be a formal military response of sorts.. The nature of the reporting itself suggest this wont be brushed away under the carpet. Poland/Lativa/Estonia have been itching for a more robust action against Russia when the Russia-Ukraine war started ...

Rather careless of Russia to be targeting locations so close to NATO terrority is one possbility - but I think this was a deliberate attack by Russia - not accidental - to get NATO involved - so that Putin has an "exit route" for "losing against Ukraine" by saying it was NATO he retreated against when NATO gets involved and not Ukraine etc ...

It may be Poland who will militarily respond to an attack on its terrority and then Russia can decide if NATO's Article 5 is real or not ....

Lets see...

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## Shawnee

MeFishToo said:


> Exactly when did an iranian drone take out some advanced weapon in Ukraine?



Excellent question

BMP, ADs and MBTs are closer to the front line and do not need long range Shahed.

They are being taken care of with lancet loitering munition which appears to be a replica of Iranian drones.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592618257202438144


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## MeFishToo

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Oh dear, have you forgotten about the Russian purchases of Iranian drones wreaking drones on Ukrainian AD? The western media wont shut up about it. I recommend using Google. Ukraine is in darkness, wakey wakey.


The russians might aswell be throwing rocks at ukrainian infrastructure..
Those iranian drones do not target air defence systems or any weapon systems. They are predestinated at stationary soft targets the size of a building.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Han Patriot said:


> Congrats to Cambodia.
> The only reason India exists is due to UK? Why don't you stop supporting Russia? Lol. We have existed as a unified country since at least Qin dynasty, that's 2000 years ago. India is a British creation. So go kiss your White masters arse. You have a really submissive slave logic.



China namba wan in covid

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592257752377827338
A commie calling someone a slave is rich. Also ain't an Indian also what does qing cong dynasty from 2k years ago have to do with anything? 

You guys lost to Japanese & are about to be Japanese slave if it weren't for the white master race saving your people. So a thank you should be in order. 

Heck communism are created by a German jew. So what does that tells you about Chinese culture & history?

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## Shawnee

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592617518413512704
> NASAMS hit every target fired at today



There is footage of multiple explosions today 

People will believe you though. You have absolute media supremacy which overrides air supremacy.

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> damn if confirmed..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592581319758053376
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592581381791834114


Its hard to believe. How will they supply them?


Dalit said:


> Nigga, what are you or NATO exactly going to do? Spell it out for me.


NATO could do a lot. 


ZeGerman said:


> “West wants to destroy muslims”
> Dont make me laugh. Just admit you were demonizing with shit statements buddy.


Destroy is a broad concept. The west is doing a pretty good job of destroying christianity so its not far fetched that they would try to destroy muslims or islam. 


ZeGerman said:


> Like the barbary states and ottomans were oh so benevolent for europeans?


Depends when. There was a lot of tolerance in the Ottoman Empire. So many christians were allowed to live there and practice their customs etc. Muslims under European empires in europe were genocided. Like the muslims of hungry and muslims of slavonia and other places where the Austrians or Spaniards conquered. But from mid 1800's European powers were more tolerant. Except the southern europeans like greeks and serbs etc. (they weren't powers exactly). 


jhungary said:


> Yeah, that's really hurt, there are rumour that Ukrainian have breached the other side of Dnieper in 3 points (The Kinburn, Oleshky and Nova Kakovkha). The kinburn is already confirmed, if the other 2 is true, that's a big progress


incredible if true. I dont believe it. 


BHAN85 said:


> If you are rich, do you would spend your money in Miami or in Siberia?


sibreia for me. Definitely Siberia. 


jhungary said:


> If this is true, let's say for argument sake, this is a Russian missile attack on Poland.
> 
> The things we should do is to send in NATO troop in Ukraine, not as a forward fighter, but to guard Ukraine Ground and Air Space, and we move in with all our Anti Air Asset and secure the border for Ukrainian, and then transfer a hell lot of weapon to Ukraine and release the entire Ukrainian military (half of them are currently tasked to defend their own soil), maybe with NATO CAP over Ukrainian Airspace.
> 
> That would probably the adequate response.
> 
> But let's wait on the investigation.


Air assets in western ukraine to guard against further attacks for sure. Probably too early to send troops. That will be at the next false flag. I mean I might be a real attack by russia, but at the end of the day it makes no difference who did it. If nato wants to go in, it will go in under any justification.

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## Deino

Daylamite Warrior said:


> @Deino keep negative rating me, you will just make me do it more and more and more. Youre abusing your "power"!
> 
> Ukronazis are liars, no way 73 missiles shot down. More like 73 missiles got through. Not the first time Ukrnazis lied about these sort of things.
> 
> @waz @LeGenD why is a mod negative rating people they dont agree with? That's like being penalised for having a different opinion which is not how an impartial mod should behave. I understand having different opinions is allowed but why do we have a member of authority defaming users here they dont agree with? Isn't this an abuse of power? Why can't we all have this ability to negative rate?
> 
> Mind you, when I see users with negative ratings I generally flock to them so it is counter productive.




It’s no abuse of power when I give negative rating for an open insult with the N-word and even more if justifying this brutal and unjustified war with the othe N-word as if all Ukranians including women, kids and elders are Nazis and therefore are justified to be killed.

As such stop with these insults and offence and I won‘t rate you, otherwise I will continue anr report your BS!

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## kingQamaR

Ali_Baba said:


> Looks like there will be a formal military response of sorts.. The nature of the reporting itself suggest this wont be brushed away under the carpet. Poland/Lativa/Estonia have been itching for a more robust action against Russia when the Russia-Ukraine war started ...
> 
> Rather careless of Russia to be targeting locations so close to NATO terrority ...
> 
> It may be Poland who will militarily respond to an attack on its terrority and then Russia can decide if NATO's Article 5 is real or not ....
> 
> Lets see...



So the response to a probable accident is a declaration of war?


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## Reashot Xigwin

Russia just FAFO itself out

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592614520215973888

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## Shawnee

Deino said:


> It’s no abuse of power when I give negative rating for an open insult with the N-word and even more if justifying this brutal and unjustified war with the othe N-word as of all Ukranians including women, kids and elders are Nazis and there are justified to be killed.
> 
> As such stop with these insults and offence and I won‘t rate you, otherwise I will continue anr report your BS!



You don’t do the same when racism is used against Iranians.

Look at the comments made by Beny

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## jhungary

Falcon29 said:


> Interesting, you make good points. China does not seem to be behind Russia and wants a settlement. Russia is maybe hoping it can annex those two territories where it declared as Russian , and end the war. Ukraine does not seem down for that so Russia is stuck. Putin doesn't seem to have an exit plan. If the West can provide for him an exit plan where he can save some face, I'd say the war would be behind us.



The war can only ends with negotiation, and by "the war" I don't mean just this one, because even after Ukraine successfully push Russian off everywhere that was belong to Ukraine prior to 2022 or even 2014, the Russo-Ukrainian will NOT end there, this will only be part 1 (or 2 if you count 2014 as well) of the Russo-Ukrainian war. As long as the ambition is there, Russia will come back for Part 2, 3 or 4 or whenever until they either got bored or have no mean to continue. 

The only way I can see this war went out is to basically just grant Ukraine NATO membership. They may as well be, after we have send them that many advance equipment and let them know our secret and share our Intel capability with them, it would be stupid not to include Ukraine in NATO? Because it would be extremely stupid to have all these hardware and knowledge to either go back to Russia or worse, went to China, if NATO dump Ukraine. 

I don't think Ukrainian are willing to negotiate unless NATO membership is on the table, because if not, there are no way it can guarantee Russia won't come back and do a Part 2. And then I think Russia is not going to like that. Which mean mostly, the war continue.



Falcon29 said:


> About Trump, yeah, he is detrimental to the success of the Republican party. He has no shot at reelection if nominated. I don't understand why Republican party doesn't nominate DeSantis for 24', as he would actually have a chance. As you said if Trump counters by running independent , it will split the vote. There is still around 10-15% of only-Trumpers in the party. If GOP can get them to rally around DeSantis , we could see Republicans take the presidency in 24', imo. Tough choices ahead for the GOP.



The reason is simple. Money. 

As a once proud Republican, it's not hard to know Trump bring GOP a lot of money for their election, because Trump sell GOP like he sell his real estate, there is a draw for Trump to the backer of GOP, IIRC, GOP campaign fund has been raised around 50% from 0.9 billion to around 1.4 billion in 2021, for example, GOP dumped some 500 million on Predue 2021 Senate Runs-Off election against what his face from Democrat party and lost. I mean before Trump comes in, that amount of campaign money is unheard of.









Georgia runoff campaigns cost nearly $1 billion heading into Election Day


The market for two Georgia Senate seats proved remarkably expensive.




www.washingtontimes.com





Now I am not saying GOP people may pocketed some of those, but a large war chest for GOP usually welcome.

On the other hand, the only viable candidate is DeSantis, But again, the trump thing will most likely tear his campaign apart. I mean, it's one thing to have a Presidential Election for Trump to cry foul on, think about what happen if Trump denied the Primary of 2024 presidential candidate election if and when he lost? This is going to bring down the entire GOP....

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## MeFishToo

Shawnee said:


> Excellent question
> 
> BMP, ADs and MBTs are closer to the front line and do not need long range Shahed.
> 
> They are being taken care of with lancet loitering munition which appears to be a replica of Iranian drones.


Yes, the lancet drone is being used against military equipment, not iranian though and not the drone he was refering to. Ive seen some footage - and I still have to see it do some damage to armor. Seems more capable against vehicles and trucks if they dont move and arent hidden in a forest. But it seems to be extremely slow. You could probably defend your vehicle with a shotgun against it..

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## Catalystic

Seems nato looking/creating excuses to heat it up and spread the war to europe. 
I feel sorry for the countries that will be guinea pigs in this war that will engulf entire europe.
The globalist zionists evil designs to destroy europe are stepping up

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> incredible if true. I dont believe it.


It's confirmed in Kinburn. The other two is just rumour



thetutle said:


> Air assets in western ukraine to guard against further attacks for sure. Probably too early to send troops. That will be at the next false flag. I mean I might be a real attack by russia, but at the end of the day it makes no difference who did it. If nato wants to go in, it will go in under any justification.



You can't deploy NATO Anti AIr Asset without Ground troop.

What I mean is for NATO to deploy AA system in and around ALL Ukrainian territories outside of the frontline, so Kharkiv, Kyiv Lviv and place like that. And that would take over the responsibility for defending a "Possible" invasion route for the Ukrainian, that will free up to around 20 Brigade, just in the west and east along, if NATO are determined, they can deploy their force in forward Area but not frontline, like Kharkiv, Sloviansk, Kramatorsk or Zaporizhzhia, that would release another 10 to 15 brigades, that's almost half of the Ukrainian military.

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## Shawnee

MeFishToo said:


> Yes, the lancet drone is being used against military equipment, not iranian though and not the drone he was refering to. Ive seen some footage - and I still have to see it do some damage to armor. Seems more capable against vehicles and trucks if they dont move and arent hidden in a forest. But it seems to be extremely slow. You could probably defend your vehicle with a shotgun against it..




Shahed has up to more than 1000 km nominal range. It is too much for a BMP and is for power grid and factories of the mainland.

Lancet is very close to arrays of Iranian loitering munitions. It is likely a tech transfer IMO.

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## Ali_Baba

kingQamaR said:


> So the response to a probable accident is a declaration of war?



That is the determination that NATO will make right? And then they will decide a response based on that.

Let's see..


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## Reashot Xigwin

Catalystic said:


> Seems nato looking/creating excuses to heat it up and spread the war to europe.
> I feel sorry for the countries that will be guinea pigs in this war that will engulf entire europe.
> The globalist zionists evil designs to destroy europe are stepping up


Wh-who do you think is currently invading Ukraine right now? Israel? 🇮🇱

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> So the response to a probable accident is a declaration of war?


No, if this is an accident or is there is reason why Russia can denied the strike, then no, that is not a declaration of war. But then Russian would have to accept responsibility and pay repatriation. If not, this is going to be see as an act of war. 

On the other hand, even if Russia do admit this is a mistake and NATO forgive and forget, they will most likely push pressure on NATO sending more arms to Ukraine.


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## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> If this is true, let's say for argument sake, this is a Russian missile attack on Poland.
> 
> The things we should do is to send in NATO troop in Ukraine, not as a forward fighter, but to guard Ukraine Ground and Air Space, and we move in with all our Anti Air Asset and secure the border for Ukrainian, and then transfer a hell lot of weapon to Ukraine and release the entire Ukrainian military (half of them are currently tasked to defend their own soil), maybe with NATO CAP over Ukrainian Airspace.
> 
> That would probably the adequate response.
> 
> But let's wait on the investigation.


I was thinking the same. Peace keeping troops along Belarus-Ukraine border to “prevent escalation” and air defence systems to prevent any future mistakes by russian missiles.



Shawnee said:


> There is footage of multiple explosions today
> 
> People will believe you though. You have absolute media supremacy which overrides air supremacy.


Two NASAMS systems hardly cover the entire Ukraine. They might be very successful in their sector.


----------



## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> I was thinking the same. Peace keeping troops along Belarus-Ukraine border to “prevent escalation” and air defence systems to prevent any future mistakes by russian missiles.


Yeah, i mean, of course it's not going to be like people think a missile attackon Poland and we send in 3000 nuke to Russia.......I mean, that's quite stupid....

I would probably also go with no fly zone. That way, you make every missile launching platform target and you can go after them in the air. And also stop air launch ballistic/cruise missile.


----------



## Sifar zero

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592574320517468167
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592575168412778498


You are one gullible idiot who believes anything that the Ukrainian government says.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The Russian market just collapsed. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592599422147661824

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## Dalit

thetutle said:


> Its hard to believe. How will they supply them?
> 
> NATO could do a lot.
> 
> Destroy is a broad concept. The west is doing a pretty good job of destroying christianity so its not far fetched that they would try to destroy muslims or islam.
> 
> Depends when. There was a lot of tolerance in the Ottoman Empire. So many christians were allowed to live there and practice their customs etc. Muslims under European empires in europe were genocided. Like the muslims of hungry and muslims of slavonia and other places where the Austrians or Spaniards conquered. But from mid 1800's European powers were more tolerant. Except the southern europeans like greeks and serbs etc. (they weren't powers exactly).
> 
> incredible if true. I dont believe it.
> 
> sibreia for me. Definitely Siberia.
> 
> Air assets in western ukraine to guard against further attacks for sure. Probably too early to send troops. That will be at the next false flag. I mean I might be a real attack by russia, but at the end of the day it makes no difference who did it. If nato wants to go in, it will go in under any justification.



NATO can't do much other than economic sanctions. If papa USA couldn't do anything meaningful NATO for sure cannot.

Admit it. Russia is a different animal. It isn't Iraq or Afghanistan. Russia has pounced on Ukraine for almost a year now. Russia has annexed Ukrainian territory. Russia has stopped supplying gas to Europe which has strained the economy. What has NATO done to stop Russia?

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## Daylamite Warrior

Deino said:


> It’s no abuse of power when I give negative rating for an open insult with the N-word and even more if justifying this brutal and unjustified war with the othe N-word as if all Ukranians including women, kids and elders are Nazis and therefore are justified to be killed.
> 
> As such stop with these insults and offence and I won‘t rate you, otherwise I will continue anr report your BS!



It is an abuse of power because it is fact that the Ukraine army is pro-Nazi as is the establishment. It has been proven here time and time again, with verfiable evidence, and you cant take that you support them. I never mentioned the women and children, but that doesnt mean that Ukrainian civilians don't support their nazi ideology either. If you support nazi ideology then of course death is well deserved. Cope!

I will continue with whatever I please since your infantile reporting and negative ratings mean nothing. It becomes a signal for like minded people to unite, so it's counter productive. Grow up!

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## Reashot Xigwin

Sifar zero said:


> You are one gullible idiot who believes anything that the Ukrainian government says.


They are more trustworthy than the Russian that's the point.

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## Ali_Baba

Putin breaks silence on Poland missile crash and blames Warsaw


The reports of a missile striking Poland has been described as a "significant escalation" amid fears of how NATO will respond.




www.express.co.uk







> Russia's Ministry of Defense has claimed that reports of two Russian missiles landing in Poland and killing two people are a "deliberate provocation".
> 
> The Ministry bafflingly added: "No strikes were made against targets near the Ukrainian-Polish state border by Russian weapons" despite multiple recorded instances of Russian air strikes hitting Lviv, a Ukrainian city about 62 miles south of Przewodów and only 50 miles from the Ukrainian border, just hours earlier today.



2 Russian cruise missiles hit Poland and Russia rather than saying it was an accident - Russia basically says Warsaw is "provacating ????"

wtf ....


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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> That is the determination that NATO will make right? And then they will decide a response based on that.
> 
> Let's see..


Actually depends on 2 things.

1.) An NATO investigation on whether or not this is an direct attack
2.) Would Poland activate Article 5.

Poland can't activate A5 unless NATO investigation point to a direct attack from Russia. And NATO cannot response unless Poland activate Article 5. Only these two are met, then NATO can react.


----------



## MeFishToo

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin breaks silence on Poland missile crash and blames Warsaw
> 
> 
> The reports of a missile striking Poland has been described as a "significant escalation" amid fears of how NATO will respond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 Russian cruise missiles hit Poland and Russia rather than saying it was an accident - Russia basically says Warsaw is "provacating ????"
> 
> wtf ....


Telling the truth is a provocation in Russia.


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## Mohsin A

Some reports coming in that these were not Russian missiles. Maybe a Red Flag or Ukraine firing a few to drag NATO into the conflict and escalate to WW3 perhaps. The Media seems to be getting excited and egging on a NATO response which will only lead us to the path to further destruction. Let us hope for a quick resolution and de-escalation.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Actually depends on 2 things.
> 
> 1.) An NATO investigation on whether or not this is an direct attack
> 2.) Would Poland activate Article 5.
> 
> Poland can't activate A5 unless NATO investigation point to a direct attack from Russia. And NATO cannot response unless Poland activate Article 5. Only these two are met, then NATO can react.


More like Art 4 is going to be activated. A meeting will be convened and make decision base on this event. 

So expect more sanction for Russia & more weapons delivery for Ukraine with ATACMS probably being in the table now.

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## Falcon29

Daylamite Warrior said:


> @dbc think tank? More like fish tank. Again abusing power because you're powerless
> 
> 
> 
> You clearly dont have a clue what youre talking about. Iranian drones pissed all over US patriot missiles, they can do it again in Ukraine. Swarm tactics overwhelm even the most sophisticated AD system. Go and do some research instead of making a fool of yourself.


Are you basing this on the Al Baiqaq strike?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Mohsin A said:


> Some reports coming in that these were not Russian missiles. Maybe a Red Flag or Ukraine firing a few to drag NATO into the conflict and escalate to WW3 perhaps. The Media seems to be getting excited and egging on a NATO response which will only lead us to the path to further destruction. Let us hope for a quick resolution and de-escalation.


Or Occam's Razor. The Russian are just idiot that can't be trusted with long range missile. 

Considering Russian inferior training & hardware sounds plausible.


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## Shawnee

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin breaks silence on Poland missile crash and blames Warsaw
> 
> 
> The reports of a missile striking Poland has been described as a "significant escalation" amid fears of how NATO will respond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 Russian cruise missiles hit Poland and Russia rather than saying it was an accident - Russia basically says Warsaw is "provacating ????"
> 
> wtf ....



They can say it was Ukraine AD missiles to deescalate.


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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> More like Art 4 is going to be activated. A meeting will be convened and make decision base on this event.
> 
> So expect more sanction for Russia & more weapons delivery for Ukraine with ATACMS probably being in the table now.


Art 4 is what Poland is doing, it's already active. Which is why I am talking about an investigation. 

Article 5 will not work if there is no consensus between member that this is indeed a direct attack, which mean if this is not determined to be, there will not be an article 5.

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## Ali_Baba

Britain to significantly ramp up production of artillery shells after handing thousands to Ukraine


Britain has sent at least 16,000 artillery rounds to Ukraine since the start of the war




www.telegraph.co.uk







> It comes as Western officials estimate that Russia is down to a month’s supply of artillery shells as it continues to hammer Ukrainian positions. Moscow is also down to its last 120 modern Iskander ballistic missiles after firing 80pc of its supplies.



It is starting to point towards Russia wanting to look for an exit route out of this war by escalating with NATO and then using that as a political tool for stopping the war by saying Russia cannot fight nato etc..

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## Shawnee

MeFishToo said:


> The russians might aswell be throwing rocks at ukrainian infrastructure..
> Those iranian drones do not target air defence systems or any weapon systems. They are predestinated at stationary soft targets the size of a building.




Iran has multiple drones like Lancet for enemy lines, BMP, MBT, ADs
Missile 358 is loitering munition even against airborne targets.

Shahed guided with INS and GPS version is for far away stationary targets.

We have Shahed for far away mobile targets too with FLIR.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Falcon29 said:


> Are you basing this on the Al Baiqaq strike?



The heck is al baiqaq? Did you mean Abqaiq-khurais attack aka Aramco air strikes? Well it's not just me, but all credible military analysts.



Ali_Baba said:


> Britain to significantly ramp up production of artillery shells after handing thousands to Ukraine
> 
> 
> Britain has sent at least 16,000 artillery rounds to Ukraine since the start of the war
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is starting to point towards Russia wanting to look for an exit route out of this war by escalating with NATO and then using that as a political tool for stopping the war by saying Russia cannot fight nato etc..



That literally makes no sense? How is escalating a potential world war be an "exit route"?

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> No, if this is an accident or is there is reason why Russia can denied the strike, then no, that is not a declaration of war. But then Russian would have to accept responsibility and pay repatriation. If not, this is going to be see as an act of war.
> 
> On the other hand, even if Russia do admit this is a mistake and NATO forgive and forget, they will most likely push pressure on NATO sending more arms to Ukraine.



On the other hand, if this is ruled to be accidental, does it make sense to go down the path of NATO involvement? I'm not saying Poland should just sit there and take these types of accidents but the world needs to tread carefully before escalating.


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## Daylamite Warrior

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin breaks silence on Poland missile crash and blames Warsaw
> 
> 
> The reports of a missile striking Poland has been described as a "significant escalation" amid fears of how NATO will respond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 Russian cruise missiles hit Poland and Russia rather than saying it was an accident - Russia basically says Warsaw is "provacating ????"
> 
> wtf ....



Theyre basically saying it's a false flag, which is exactly what it is.

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## aviator_fan

Daylamite Warrior said:


> No use in having a city when all its people are living like cavemen lol get your priorities straight.


This is easy to say when you live in a city you can call your own. Taliban lived in caves till they have the entire country. With your approach, they really should not have cared about taking over the country. Let the ones that fight for their city/country survival determine what the point is. Not when we are peacefully sitting in comfortable homes

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> On the other hand, if this is ruled to be accidental, does it make sense to go down the path of NATO involvement? I'm not saying Poland should just sit there and take these types of accidents but the world needs to tread carefully before escalating.


There are two issue here if this is ruled to be accidental.

1.) NATO can still response, just not with direct Military interaction. IE boots on the ground.
2.) Poland or Selective country can response on their own. Military interaction can be done thru that

Don't forget, whether or not this is an accidental attack, this may not involve NATO, but as per international law, Poland could response. Because that is a military attack on Poland Soil. Which mean Poland can seek help and form an alliance on the issue and that alliance can per international law involve in the "self-defence operation". Which mean basically it will be the same, if the big player in NATO response to Poland call.

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## Daylamite Warrior

jhungary said:


> In his wet dream, maybe.



At least I have something to have wet dreams out of! Lol 

Denying Iran's drone power is what's causing Ukraine being left in darkness and in a critical position. Wet dream that, nonce. It must be the concussion lol

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Art 4 is what Poland is doing, it's already active. Which is why I am talking about an investigation.
> 
> Article 5 will not work if there is no consensus between member that this is indeed a direct attack, which mean if this is not determined to be, there will not be an article 5.



Until the Russian kills another polish you mean? 

If Russia doesn't pay for this attack. They going to be embolden to try another. Whatever NATO is doing its better be good.

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## kingQamaR

Ali_Baba said:


> That is the determination that NATO will make right? And then they will decide a response based on that.
> 
> Let's see..



So he hit a Polish tractor...intentionally? You don't think if he was going to attack Poland they might have hit NATO bases instead?


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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> Nigga, what are you or NATO exactly going to do? Spell it out for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Russians still hold significant amount of Ukrainian territory.
> 
> View attachment 896814


This language is what you have to stoop to. Every withdrawing army has a map like this. You don't compare what htey are left holding on to. You compare against what they set out to do and the costs incurred in doing so.

They set out to capture the capital and turn Ukraine into an extension. They failed miserably, and have 50% of the land left and immense cost. And the ultimate humiliation was when they annexed the land thinking it will be some red line, only to have Ukraine go past it. 

A map like this is what a Russian general is showing in Moscow showing how great they did. This is only great if this was what they set out to do, not where they ended up

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## Reashot Xigwin

Daylamite Warrior said:


> At least I have something to have wet dreams out of! Lol
> 
> Denying Iran's drone power is what's causing Ukraine being left in darkness and in a critical position. Wet dream that, nonce. It must be the concussion lol




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592497263720660995

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## Daylamite Warrior

aviator_fan said:


> This is easy to say when you live in a city you can call your own. Taliban lived in caves till they have the entire country. With your approach, they really should not have cared about taking over the country. Let the ones that fight for their city/country survival determine what the point is. Not when we are peacefully sitting in comfortable homes



Are you comparing Ukraine with Taliban? Are you that desperate? I mean it is pointless having a land which cant even have any running water or electricity. Pretty sure Taliban and Afghanistan had both of those things. There are two sides to the war, and you are also guilty of picking sides sat in your own warm home. Where I live doesn't change the facts that Ukraine needs to worry about how to heat, feed and water its people instead of a pissing contest about land.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592497263720660995



Nice photo op, very easy to say that when winter hasnt even hit lol



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Until the Russian kills another polish you mean?
> 
> If Russia doesn't pay for this attack. They going to be embolden to try another. Whatever NATO is doing its better be good.



It's a botched false flag! That's why nothing will happen.

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## aviator_fan

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Right, that has nothing to do with falseflags or what you said earlier. Try to think a little more coherently. Russia has been taking out plenty of those advanced weapons with Iranian drones. Your head is so far up Ukraine's arse you can't see whats happening.
> 
> Russia literally threw a bunch of missiles and a missiles on NATO territory and doesnt seem to care. They know NATO are the real cowards who dont have balls for a nuke war with Russia. Nothing will happen! Lol
> 
> 
> 
> Ah getting other men to fight your battles again. They can stretch it out for you and make it bigger, surgical procedures have advanced jhunglikeashrimp lol


Russia has been saying since April that any supply route is a target. Either because of lack of will, or lack of ability, no supply line has been disrupted. So 6 months later they launch a missile. NATO reaction not here yet, but its been less than 24 hours.

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Until the Russian kills another polish you mean?
> 
> If Russia doesn't pay for this attack. They going to be embolden to try another. Whatever NATO is doing its better be good.


Well, NATO may or may not get involved, but Poland themselves can and should do something, at least until NATO made a decision. 

On the other hand, I would say just Poland alone may already be enough to push Russian off of Ukraine and maintain security in the area, Russian force has been worn to a nub.

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## Daylamite Warrior

aviator_fan said:


> Russia has been saying since April that any supply route is a target. Either because of lack of will, or lack of ability, no supply line has been disrupted. So 6 months later they launch a missile. NATO reaction not here yet, but its been less than 24 hours.



LOL so all those sophisticated missiles and satellites Russia has, but they decided to hit a tractor? You need to really think twice before posting BS like this. Pretty sure Russia has the ability to hit those supply lines and have been, especially with Iranian drones, however they cant get every single one...yet. Nothing will happen!

@Deino do you think negative ratings and emojis will make me stop and change my mind? LOL grow up


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## jhungary

I found it funny for these Russian worshipper. 

Aren't y'all saying Russia is fighting NATO gloriously?? Now it is the EXACT chance to put Russian money where their mouth is and ACTUALLY fight some NATO, why all these suddenly become "This is false flag' and "This is Ukrainian provocation" Aren't these exactly what y'all Russian supporter looking for??

LOL

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## Daylamite Warrior

jhungary said:


> I found it funny for these Russian worshipper.
> 
> Aren't y'all saying Russia is fighting NATO gloriously?? Now it is the EXACT chance to put Russian money where their mouth is and ACTUALLY fight some NATO, why all these suddenly become "This is false flag' and "This is Ukrainian provocation" Aren't these exactly what y'all Russian supporter looking for??
> 
> LOL



Lol Russia doesnt need to hit a Polish tractor to make US scared, all they have to do is announce high alert of its nuclear force for US to publicly back down. This was a botched falseflag, just like the rest.

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> NATO can't do much other than economic sanctions. If papa USA couldn't do anything meaningful NATO for sure cannot.
> 
> Admit it. Russia is a different animal. It isn't Iraq or Afghanistan. Russia has pounced on Ukraine for almost a year now. Russia has annexed Ukrainian territory. Russia has stopped supplying gas to Europe which has strained the economy. What has NATO done to stop Russia?


There is what you believe in your view of the world and then the view that Putin originally had:

1. March into Kiev with tanks rolling in
2. Depose current Govt, and impose friendly Govt with people rising up to help
3. Special operation done fast and quick
4. Oil as a solid soft weapon
5. Extend virtual border of Russia.

What ACTUALLY HAPPENED:
1. Get kicked out of Kiev
2. Annex territory only to start surrendering it
3. Peer adversary battle
4. Oil price close to pre-war
5. Complete economic cut-off of oil industry (i.e. who is going to provide teh equipment), and all western equipment and airliners that won't fly 18 months in when cannibalization takes its toll
5. Left with some incremental gains that do nothing strategically . This gain is not what Russians set out to do.

So yes go ahead and believe . But Russian Govt, its military, and its tactics have failed the vision of 1-5.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Catalystic said:


> Seems nato looking/creating excuses to heat it up and spread the war to europe.
> I feel sorry for the countries that will be guinea pigs in this war that will engulf entire europe.
> The globalist zionists evil designs to destroy europe are stepping up


Only an idiot would think that a missile fired from Russia is a clear example of NATO trying to create excuses.

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## aviator_fan

Daylamite Warrior said:


> At least I have something to have wet dreams out of! Lol
> 
> Denying Iran's drone power is what's causing Ukraine being left in darkness and in a critical position. Wet dream that, nonce. It must be the concussion lol


Iran, the same power that can do ZERO against Israel and its close allies (Hamas and Syria) are constantnly killed by Israel. IAF roams freely about on Syrian airspace killing who it likes. This is the Iran you are trying to describe?

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## aviator_fan

Daylamite Warrior said:


> LOL so all those sophisticated missiles and satellites Russia has, but they decided to hit a tractor? You need to really think twice before posting BS like this. Pretty sure Russia has the ability to hit those supply lines and have been, especially with Iranian drones, however they cant get every single one...yet. Nothing will happen!
> 
> @Deino do you think negative ratings and emojis will make me stop and change my mind? LOL grow up


6 months later Russians deliver on their promise with a random missile and we are supposed to be in awe of it. Is it waiting for the ultimate war to come through with its ability to project.

It also claimed it destroyed HIMARS (actually more HIMARS then were supplied). For those of us that are keeping track with Russian lies, don't expect to impress us.

But yes, please be impressed on your own, I am happy for you

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## Catalystic

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Only an idiot would think that a missile fired from Russia is a clear example of NATO trying to create excuses.


You dumb idiots will realize things only too late. Your downfall has started……enjoy while it lasts.
Maybe get your travel documents ready in case u need to flee soon.


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## Falcon29

Daylamite Warrior said:


> The heck is al baiqaq? Did you mean Abqaiq-khurais attack aka Aramco air strikes? Well it's not just me, but all credible military analysts.


It wasn't Patriot defenses :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1174186887344467971


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## jhungary

zhxy said:


> Russia can use tactical and strategic nuclear weapons if the situation worsens.
> 
> If Russia loses, then everyone must lose.


Well, I read it somewhere this may be a different end game for Russia. 

If Russian know this is going to start WW3, which mean this is intentional, they wouldn't send Cruise missile, they would have send nuke if they want to start WW3. 

I have talked to a friend who worked as an aid to a National Security Advisor. This probably be a way for Russia to de-escalate, because they can use this to use as a graceful step back from Ukraine, NATO involved, fight some more then surrender. I mean, losing to NATO have a lot better ring to losing to Ukraine. This is what Putin do to save face.

But this could just be a wild imagination for some one, but man, would it be nice this is the case??

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## Daylamite Warrior

aviator_fan said:


> Iran, the same power that can do ZERO against Israel and its close allies (Hamas and Syria) are constantnly killed by Israel. IAF roams freely about on Syrian airspace killing who it likes. This is the Iran you are trying to describe?



No, it's the Iran that has propt up Yemen, Assad, Hezbollah (2 victories against Israel) and Hamas. This is the same Iran that smashed a bunch of ballistic missiles into US bases with no response therewith. It's the same Iran which has shot down many US drones with no response. It's the same Iran which has Israel spending billions for some Iron dome which doesnt even work and the same Iran which is surrounding Israel with no sign of wavering. You're living in la la land.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Catalystic said:


> You dumb idiots will realize things only too late. Your downfall has started……enjoy while it lasts.
> Maybe get your travel documents ready in case u need to flee soon.


Looks like You got your traveling documents at the end of your downfall.
Did you enjoy it?

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## Ali_Baba

kingQamaR said:


> So he hit a Polish tractor...intentionally? You don't think if he was going to attack Poland they might have hit NATO bases instead?



Reports are that the 2 missiles were possibly aimed at a Polish-Ukraine energy interconnect in Poland ... and they just missed their mark ...

All the hallmarks of a deliberate attack.


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## jhungary

WW3 is coming soon, let's just all hope Russian Nuclear Launching system is not like this

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## Daylamite Warrior

aviator_fan said:


> 6 months later Russians deliver on their promise with a random missile and we are supposed to be in awe of it. Is it waiting for the ultimate war to come through with its ability to project.
> 
> It also claimed it destroyed HIMARS (actually more HIMARS then were supplied). For those of us that are keeping track with Russian lies, don't expect to impress us.
> 
> But yes, please be impressed on your own, I am happy for you



Why would Russia bomb a tractor when it could wipe Poland off the map. This is a false flag, it's been done before. Meanwhile, Russia has been picking off Ukronazi AD slowly but surely, and been hitting as many supply lines. 

We dont need you to be impressed, your impressions wont bring clean water and warmth to Ukraine lol we are impressed that with such low funds we have managed to outwit your sophisticated BS weapons.

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> damn if confirmed..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592581319758053376
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592581381791834114


confirmed and what 


> 'Who fired the missile is unclear' - security expert​Josh Cheetham
> Open Source Analyst, BBC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TwitterCopyright: Twitter
> In the last few hours images have been circulating on social media, reportedly showing missile fragments from the scene of the attack in Poland.
> The BBC has been unable to verify these pictures, but we've spoken to three defence experts about what they show.
> Mark Cancian, from think tank CSIS, believes it may be from an S-300 system. This type of missile is typically used for surface-to-air attacks, and has been used by both Russia and Ukraine throughout the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TwitterCopyright: Twitter
> "Who fired the missile is unclear," says J Andrés Gannon, a security expert at the US Council on Foreign Relations, who agrees that it may be from an S-300 system.
> "We know Russia has been using the S-300 for ground attacks even though it’s an air defence system, but Ukraine also uses them for air defence against cruise missiles."
> Dr Justin Bronck, a senior fellow at think tank Rusi, agrees that it may be from an S-300 system, but there isn't enough evidence to identify it yet.


that Ukraine attacked a NATO country and killed its citizen .
every body knew its Ukraine S-300 that hit Poland because no S-300 from Russia controlled areas can reach Poland .

Indeed its time for bringing Article 5 of NATO , its time to give western part of Ukraine to Poland


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

jhungary said:


> WW3 is coming soon, let's just all hope Russian Nuclear Launching system is not like this



Lol nobody wins a nuclear war and simulations have shown the west will be just as destroyed as Russia. Try figuring out how to take out hypersonic missiles if you can 😆


----------



## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> If true, there needs to be a response from NATO. A strike on a Russian base or sinking a Russian ship or submarine


true and i'm waiting for response , but don't forget , the reports say the debris seems to be from S-300 missiles


----------



## K_Bin_W

Hack-Hook said:


> confirmed and what
> 
> that Ukraine attacked a NATO country and killed its citizen .
> every body knew its Ukraine S-300 that hit Poland because no S-300 from Russia controlled areas can reach Poland .
> 
> Indeed its time for bringing Article 5 of NATO , its time to give western part of Ukraine to Poland


You mean an attacki on one is an attacki on all, yeah right,


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Falcon29 said:


> It wasn't Patriot defenses :
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1174186887344467971



This isnt evidence, this is evidence:

"The Patriot defense system fails when it comes to drones or cruise missiles"









Houthi drones make Saudi Arabia an easy target – DW – 03/30/2022


A recent high-profile strike on an oil depot in Jeddah by Houthi rebels has underlined Saudi Arabia's military defense vulnerability — and threatens its reputation as a global investment location.




www.dw.com


----------



## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Here is a chance to make this an actual war, a hot war!
All hot air and fanboy commentary is meaningless. Nato needs a war, heck western Europe needs it... industry and economy depends on it. 
Russia wasn't supposed to start this, it did... all pussy footed along imaginary lines. Russians dared Kyiv and if they didn't know before, they did then, fighting a proxy... 
It was/is a meat grinder because Russians made it so, they didn't go shock and awe on Ukraine, they prodded. 
One for all, all for one, isn't it? 
The imaginary line keeps redefining. 
Bear just poked... is it reason enough...
Drum roll or not yet?

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, I read it somewhere this may be a different end game for Russia.
> 
> If Russian know this is going to start WW3, which mean this is intentional, they wouldn't send Cruise missile, they would have send nuke if they want to start WW3.
> 
> I have talked to a friend who worked as an aid to a National Security Advisor. This probably be a way for Russia to de-escalate, because they can use this to use as a graceful step back from Ukraine, NATO involved, fight some more then surrender. I mean, losing to NATO have a lot better ring to losing to Ukraine. This is what Putin do to save face.
> 
> But this could just be a wild imagination for some one, but man, would it be nice this is the case??



It's absolutely certainly premediated, as there were 2 missiles, shot from 2 different planes, maneuvering to evade AFU air defence, and hitting 1 target.

You don't start a WW3 by blowing up a barn, you would rather use an alpha strike of every big boom you have — that's the conventional wisdom.

Thug's wisdom — _they_ will not start a WW3 over a barn, so lets blow up the barn, and pretend it's an accident.

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## Daylamite Warrior

zhxy said:


> No one wins in a nuclear war.
> 
> The problem is EU + US: their population and GDP are many times bigger than Russia, so if a nuclear war happens, eryone loses, but in another view, it is the victory of the Russians.
> 
> Restarting the world is not a bad idea, when the enemy has so much to lose, and you don't.



Yeah which is why nothing will come of this bothched false flag.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Arabs had it before Christians...


and romans and greeks had it before arabs


----------



## MeFishToo

Paul2 said:


> It's absolutely certainly premediated, as there were 2 missiles, shot from 2 different planes, maneuvering to evade AFU air defence, and hitting 1 target.
> 
> You don't start a WW3 by blowing up a barn, you would rather use an alpha strike of every big boom you have — that's the conventional wisdom.
> 
> Thug's wisdom — _they_ will not start a WW3 over a barn, so blow up the barn, and pretend it's an accident.


Which is why NATO has to react no matter what or else accidents keep happening.


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Arabs had it before Christians...



False, Eastern Roman Empire, a Christian Empire, had slaves before Muslims. Comparing "Arabs", a race, with a religion is apples and oranges.

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## MeFishToo

Daylamite Warrior said:


> _LOL so all those sophisticated missiles and satellites Russia has, but they decided to hit a tractor? You need to really think twice before posting BS like this. Pretty sure Russia has the ability to hit those supply lines and have been, especially with Iranian drones, however they cant get every single one...yet. Nothing will happen!_


Iranian drones hitting supply lines..? Any examples?

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## Daylamite Warrior

MeFishToo said:


> Iranian drones hitting supply lines..? Any examples?



I said theyre hitting AD installations. Stop putting words in my mouth and flip flopping. Russian cruise missiles have been doing well enough on hitting supply lines.

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## aziqbal

has Iran given any ballistic missiles yet?

2 weeks ago they said around middle of November they would start using them in Ukraine 

could the one in Poland be Iranian ?

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## Shawnee

aziqbal said:


> has Iran given any ballistic missiles yet?
> 
> 2 weeks ago they said around middle of November they would start using them in Ukraine
> 
> could the one in Poland be Iranian ?



No evidence.

Ukraine said an offer was given to Iran that Iran could not reject to prevent the transfer of Iranian ballistic missiles to Russia.

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## Daylamite Warrior

US responds with caution

Barbara Plett Usher

North America correspondent, BBC News

The Americans have responded cautiously to reports of Russian missiles landing in Polish territory.

The White House, Pentagon and state department all say they cannot confirm what happened and are working with the Polish government to gather more information.

They’ve also repeated America’s commitment to defend every inch of Nato territory if it comes under attack, something President Joe Biden has called a “sacred obligation".

But neither the US nor its Nato allies want to be drawn into a direct confrontation with Russia.

The state department said that intent would be a factor in determining next steps.

Kurt Volker, a former US special envoy for Ukraine, also told the BBC it was very important to establish whether any missile strike on Polish territory had been intentional or accidental.

Nato should demand a clear explanation from Russia, he said, and, if a missile had gone astray, take steps to make sure it wouldn’t happen again.

There was potential for mistakes on Tuesday, with Ukrainians trying to shoot down a massive barrage of Russian missiles targeting their electricity grids.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-63593855



The US are shitting their pants! What have these slavic nutters done?! A false flag gone too far



aziqbal said:


> has Iran given any ballistic missiles yet?
> 
> 2 weeks ago they said around middle of November they would start using them in Ukraine
> 
> could the one in Poland be Iranian ?



Are you serious brother?! If a BM went off there would be a massive crater and bit more than 2 dead.


----------



## Han Patriot

Reashot Xigwin said:


> China namba wan in covid
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592257752377827338
> A commie calling someone a slave is rich. Also ain't an Indian also what does qing cong dynasty from 2k years ago have to do with anything?
> 
> You guys lost to Japanese & are about to be Japanese slave if it weren't for the white master race saving your people. So a thank you should be in order.
> 
> Heck communism are created by a German jew. So what does that tells you about Chinese culture & history?


Bro for the nth time this is a Ukrainian thread. India is number 1 mate, 4 mil dead. Lol. Riots? You have riots daily in India even without covid. Lolol

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## BHAN85

Some good music to listen as read news about how NATO starts WWIII because firecrackers fell in a filthy Polish village of dirty farmers.

The excuse to start a WW has decreased a little since WWI.


----------



## The SC

A lot of Russian attacks today..

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## Beny Karachun

alimobin memon said:


> With respect. I think their is misconception. Due to heavy AD manpads these choppers are flying low and targeting at very long range and there will be some issue of stabilization as they are zooming in at max effective range. Vikhr is a 12km range missile with laser beam guidance so yes the cursor has to be on target to keep it on lock mode. Laser beam is not NLOS but LOS missile so there will be these issues.
> 
> Honestly, I am puzzled by the reaction of PDF members as if Russian hardware is not good. Which is not true apart from tanks everything is working as good as any war machine. You are in enemy territory backed by NATO support and large no. of manpads. Even other choppers like Apache, Tiger, Cobra would face the same.


No lol, NATO helicopters and drones have object recognition and auto-tracking, if you were to look at Apache fire missions, you'd understand that once the Americans select the enemy tank, they don't even have to directly aim at it.

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## LeGenD

Daylamite Warrior said:


> This isnt evidence, this is evidence:
> 
> "The Patriot defense system fails when it comes to drones or cruise missiles"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Houthi drones make Saudi Arabia an easy target – DW – 03/30/2022
> 
> 
> A recent high-profile strike on an oil depot in Jeddah by Houthi rebels has underlined Saudi Arabia's military defense vulnerability — and threatens its reputation as a global investment location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dw.com



This is not correct.

Americans have shown integrated Patriot configurations that have demonstrated the capability to shoot down drones and cruise missiles in live-fire trials at home.

The question is what type of configuration was sold to KSA.

1. It looks like Saudi air defenses are underdeveloped in its current form. Saudi radar systems might be outdated.

2. US - KSA bilateral relationship is in turbulence.

The article has raised valid points.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592646299710812160
Article 4 invoked

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592646842445352961

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## BHAN85

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592646299710812160
> Article 4 invoked



"discuss the possibility of invoking" doesnt mean "invoked".



Catalystic said:


> What do you mean?
> You dumb fucks need to go prepare for whats coming.


Very soon a must have home appliance for every European house:









40.79￡ 50% OFF|FNIRSI GC 01 Geiger counter Nuclear Radiation Detector Personal Dosimeter X ray γ ray β ray Radioactivity Tester Marble Detector| | - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

LeGenD said:


> This is not correct.
> 
> Americans have shown integrated Patriot configurations that have demonstrated the capability to shoot down drones and cruise missiles in live-fire trials at home.
> 
> The question is what type of configuration was sold to KSA.
> 
> 1. It looks like Saudi air defenses are underdeveloped in its current form. Saudi radar systems might be outdated.
> 
> 2. US - KSA bilateral relationship is in turbulence.
> 
> The article has raised valid points.



I think when drones fly low, the Patriots were having problems with either recognizing them or taking them down.

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## Daylamite Warrior

LeGenD said:


> This is not correct.
> 
> Americans have shown integrated Patriot configurations that have demonstrated the capability to shoot down drones and cruise missiles in live-fire trials at home.
> 
> The question is what type of configuration was sold to KSA.
> 
> 1. It looks like Saudi air defenses are underdeveloped in its current form. Saudi radar systems might be outdated.
> 
> 2. US - KSA bilateral relationship is in turbulence.
> 
> The article has raised valid points.



These are lame excuses. However which way you try to spin this, Iranian drones done a number on Patriot missiles. What was protecting US bases when those Iranian BMs smashed Ain Al Assad or where they misconfigured as well?!



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592646299710812160
> Article 4 invoked



Oh no, an investigation! Russia is running scared!


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592616312991514625

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## Daylamite Warrior

This doesn't appear to be a deliberate attack

Frank Gardner

BBC News, Security Correspondent

Smoke rises in the distance, amid reports of two explosions, seen from Nowosiolki, Poland, near the border with Ukraine November 15, 2022 in this image obtained from social media
ReutersCopyright: Reuters
An image posted on social media from a town 10km away from the blast shows smoke rising into the airImage caption: An image posted on social media from a town 10km away from the blast shows smoke rising into the air
When Russian missiles are being fired at targets so close to Poland’s border, and when Ukraine’s air defences are being activated to intercept them, it was perhaps only a matter of time before something like this happened.

The fact that a missile landed on Poland’s side of the border is of course a worrying development, not just for Poland but for all the states on Russia and Ukraine’s western borders.

Moldova has already complained about the effect of Russian missiles fired close to its borders.

But what matters here is what the intended target was, whoever fired the missile. And so far there is no indication that Russia was intentionally targeting anywhere beyond Ukraine’s borders.

The Kremlin knows that such a move would potentially trigger Article 5 of Nato’s constitution, theoretically bringing the entire alliance to Poland’s defence.

That is not a place Nato wants to be in, especially just a day after Russia and America’s spy chiefs have just been meeting to discuss how to avoid unnecessary escalation in this war.

Much of Ukraine’s vital supplies of defensive weaponry passes through Poland. Were that to be deliberately targeted it would be a different matter.

But that does not appear to be the case here.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-63593855



Shows over, it wasnt deliberate and suggests that these missiles were accidental or Ukronazi AD misfiring. Same thing happened in Moldova. No article 5. All the chicken hawks in this thread can relax and neednt worry about hiding in the closet lol


----------



## kingQamaR

Patriots. is not designed for drone attacks. What kind of turkey would fire multi-million dollar anti-aircraft missiles at small disposable drones?


----------



## LeGenD

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592646299710812160
> Article 4 invoked



1. Not true.

2. These lame bureaucratic proceedings show LACK of spine to respond to Russian moves in quick fashion under the garb of "investigations." As if NATO does not have surveillance assets in place to figure out what happened in Poland.

So NATO will take 1 day to call a meeting in which burgers and tea will be served to a bunch of bureaucratic cowards to reassure each other? Then NATO will take another day to condemn Russia? Then NATO will take another day to announce more sanctions on Russia? Then NATO will take another day to announce more aid to Ukraine?

About time NATO shows what it can do when up against a big power besides application of proxy warfare.

Ukraine has shown much more spine than NATO in my view. Shame.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592655009652830209
Russian missile confirmed by Poland

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## LeGenD

Daylamite Warrior said:


> These are lame excuses. However which way you try to spin this, Iranian drones done a number on Patriot missiles. What was protecting US bases when those Iranian BMs smashed Ain Al Assad or where they misconfigured as well?!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, an investigation! Russia is running scared!


I do not make lame excuses for any side. I am Facts & Figures oriented.

US has not fielded BMDS in Iraq.

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## Han Patriot

LeGenD said:


> 1. Not true.
> 
> 2. These lame bureaucratic proceedings show LACK of spine to respond to Russian moves in quick fashion under the garb of "investigations." As if NATO does not have surveillance assets in place to fugure out what happened in Poland.
> 
> So NATO will take 1 day to call a meeting in which burgers and tea will be served to a bunch of bureaucratic cowards to reassure each other? Then NATO will take another day to condemn Russia? Then NATO will take another day to announce more sanctions on Russia? Then NATO will take another day to announce more aid to Ukraine?
> 
> About time NATO shows what it can do when up against a big power besides application of proxy warfare.
> 
> Ukraine has shown much more spine than NATO in my view. Shame.


I will bet it's gonna be more sanctions as usual and more weapons as usual. And the cheerleaders will shout for blood as usual. Nobody has the balls!


----------



## The SC



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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> confirmed and what
> 
> that Ukraine attacked a NATO country and killed its citizen .
> every body knew its Ukraine S-300 that hit Poland because no S-300 from Russia controlled areas can reach Poland .
> 
> Indeed its time for bringing Article 5 of NATO , its time to give western part of Ukraine to Poland


Russia is known to lob missile from Belarus, and it's known Russian uses S-300 for ground attack, it's not that far from Brest to the Poland-Ukrainian border. It's well within range of S-300 range.

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## Daylamite Warrior

LeGenD said:


> I do not make lame excuses for any side. I am Facts & Figures oriented.
> 
> US has not fielded BMDS in Iraq.



You did! You said Patriot systems werent configured properly. This is irrelevant and a lame excuses. Iranian drones outmaneurvered Patriots and that's the reality. 

What are you talking about?! Patriots are in Iraq and have an ABM role:

"In addition to these roles, Patriot has been given the function of the U.S. Army's anti-ballistic missile (ABM) system, which is now Patriot's primary mission. The system is expected to stay fielded until at least 2040.[5]"









MIM-104 Patriot - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





They are also insufficient against Iran, got nothing to do with "configuration":









Patriot deployment to Iraq is helpful, but insufficient against Iran


Iran understands that Patriot air defense systems limit its options for additional aggression. But it also knows that the systems cannot defend against the rockets that Iran's proxies in Iraq have repeatedly lobbed with deadly effect at U.S. and coalition troops.




www.defensenews.com

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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I think when drones fly low, the Patriots were having problems with either recognizing them or taking them down.


It depends upon the configuration.

Saudi still have much work to do.


----------



## CrazyZ

LeGenD said:


> 1. Not true.
> 
> 2. These lame bureaucratic proceedings show LACK of spine to respond to Russian moves in quick fashion under the garb of "investigations." As if NATO does not have surveillance assets in place to fugure out what happened in Poland.
> 
> So NATO will take 1 day to call a meeting in which burgers and tea will be served to a bunch of bureaucratic cowards to reassure each other? Then NATO will take another day to condemn Russia? Then NATO will take another day to announce more sanctions on Russia? Then NATO will take another day to announce more aid to Ukraine?
> 
> About time NATO shows what it can do when up against a big power besides application of proxy warfare.
> 
> Ukraine has shown much more spine than NATO in my view. Shame.


Its not in NATO's interest to escalate. Miscalculations can lead to a nuclear exchange. Arming the Ukrainians to bleed the Russians is the most effective approach for NATO.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Russia is known to lob missile from Belarus, and it's known Russian uses S-300 for ground attack, it's not that far from Brest to the Poland-Ukrainian border. It's well within range of S-300 range.


and its well known Ukraine hit Apartment's building with S-300 in Kiev


----------



## Abid123

This thread is hilarious. If Russia wanted to it could have carpet bombed Ukraine like America did to Iraq, Korea and Vietnam. The Russians choose not to do so. 

Russia could have in fact dropped a single nuclear bomb in the outskirts of a major Ukrainian city and the war would be over. 

The only reason they are not doing so it because Ukrainians are their blood brothers.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> and its well known Ukraine hit Apartment's building with S-300 in Kiev


That does not negate anything I said, in fact, I remember I have debated with you about S-300 being used to hit ground target, and I remember you agreed it was being used by Russian.



Abid123 said:


> This thread is hilarious. If Russia wanted to it could have carpet bombed Ukraine like America did to Iraq, Korea and Vietnam. The Russians choose not to do so.
> 
> Russia could have in fact dropped a single nuclear bomb in the outskirts of a major Ukrainian city and the war would be over.
> 
> The only reason they are not doing so it because Ukrainians are their blood brothers.


It's like when US invaded Canada in 1812.

We didn't burn you to the ground because Canadian is blood brother to the US. LOL

If they are blood bother, you wouldn't invade at all lol..........what a pile of dog shit.

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## LeGenD

Daylamite Warrior said:


> You did! You said Patriot systems werent configured properly. This is irrelevant and a lame excuses. Iranian drones outmaneurvered Patriots and that's the reality.
> 
> What are you talking about?! Patriots are in Iraq and have an ABM role:
> 
> "In addition to these roles, Patriot has been given the function of the U.S. Army's anti-ballistic missile (ABM) system, which is now Patriot's primary mission. The system is expected to stay fielded until at least 2040.[5]"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MIM-104 Patriot - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are also insufficient against Iran, got nothing to do with "configuration":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patriot deployment to Iraq is helpful, but insufficient against Iran
> 
> 
> Iran understands that Patriot air defense systems limit its options for additional aggression. But it also knows that the systems cannot defend against the rockets that Iran's proxies in Iraq have repeatedly lobbed with deadly effect at U.S. and coalition troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defensenews.com



Patriot configurations are *NOT* homogeneous around the world - there are technical differences in launchers, interceptors, and even radar systems in use.

I pointed out that Americans have demonstrated Patriot configurations that can detect, track and intercept drones and/or cruise missiles in real time. I can present evidence of these live-fire trials, if necessary.

Question mark is on Saudi Patriot configurations:

_"It's not an interceptor-shortage problem: It's a radar problem. Those radars are not able to detect low-flying weapons," Saab explained._









Houthi drones make Saudi Arabia an easy target – DW – 03/30/2022


A recent high-profile strike on an oil depot in Jeddah by Houthi rebels has underlined Saudi Arabia's military defense vulnerability — and threatens its reputation as a global investment location.




www.dw.com





As for BMDS capability in Iraq:

_The Department of Defense confirmed last week that it deployed Patriot air and missile defense systems to Iraq. The two batteries went to Ain al-Asad Air Base and Irbil Air Base — *three months after *Tehran targeted those bases with ballistic missile attacks. Tehran took advantage of the lack of ballistic missile defenses, inju
ring dozens of U.S. troops._









Patriot deployment to Iraq is helpful, but insufficient against Iran


Iran understands that Patriot air defense systems limit its options for additional aggression. But it also knows that the systems cannot defend against the rockets that Iran's proxies in Iraq have repeatedly lobbed with deadly effect at U.S. and coalition troops.




www.defensenews.com





Clear enough?

Do not laugh at my posts "prematurely." Take this as a warning. WE are not exchanging jokes here.

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## 925boy

CrazyZ said:


> Its not in NATO's interest to escalate.


NATO is low on men, money, ammunition, good rail network, good military vehicles, so this is wise.


CrazyZ said:


> Miscalculations can lead to a nuclear exchange.


True, but hopefully not, they have to duke it out conventional- but NATO will lose alot of soldiers either way, for one, because of lack of element of surprise- Russia is already in a war, so that makes Russia already prepared, but NATO countries just have postures and forces hanging out- are they REALLY REALLY ready to die for an attempt to use Ukraine as their next proxy?


CrazyZ said:


> Arming the Ukrainians to bleed the Russians is the most effective approach for NATO.


but Russia has destroyed so many of the Ukranians, its increasingly fighting NATO- just as mercenaries for now, but still...NATO forces are getting closer and their citizens are fighting in larger numbers- and if you really think Russia is low enough on ammunition that its not prepared for NATO, you will will learn the hard way.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> That does not negate anything I said, in fact, I remember I have debated with you about S-300 being used to hit ground target, and I remember you agreed it was being used by Russian.


I never deny it , as I recall the discussion was about if it would be precise in that role or not
but the question is from where the missile get fired . Russian controlled areas ? I don't think you suggest that as you knew its impossible .
only remain two options , somewhere in western part of Ukraine or Belarus . the longest range S-300 missile is 200km the village is more than 130km from the nearest possible Belarus air-defense (I say possible because I don't knew where exactly they are, Do you knew where the nearest to the village is) but only 65km from Lviv. 

and well Lviv was under attack guess what they use against those Russian missiles


----------



## LeGenD

CrazyZ said:


> Its not in NATO's interest to escalate. Miscalculations can lead to a nuclear exchange. Arming the Ukrainians to bleed the Russians is the most effective approach for NATO.



It was easy to TALK SHIT about Russia while using Ukraine as a proxy?

Now that a NATO member state Poland is struck, a meeting is called tomorrow to serve tea and cookies to bureaucratic cowards who will reassure each other with empty patting and discuss ways to minimize the incident.

It was an accident....

What if Putin is not playing games anymore? What if this attack is a soft reminder to NATO to back off now?

WE shall see how tough NATO really is.


----------



## BHAN85

Abid123 said:


> This thread is hilarious. If Russia wanted to it could have carpet bombed Ukraine like America did to Iraq, Korea and Vietnam. The Russians choose not to do so.
> 
> Russia could have in fact dropped a single nuclear bomb in the outskirts of a major Ukrainian city and the war would be over.
> 
> The only reason they are not doing so it because Ukrainians are their blood brothers.


Cain would have been proud of Kremlin

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## LeGenD

@925boy

You are trying to test me, right? Temporary ban issued. And I will escalate until you learn to behave. I will not tolerate Trollish behavior, I assure you.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## zartosht

What a beautiful geopolitical move by Russia. 

They have now attacked the most vocal, and rabidly anti Russian state in NATO. This puts nato in a corner

Take it in the a** and move on, or directly respond on Russian territory

I will bet any amount of money/ any body organ that NATO will take the L and move on

This will be a shocking wakeup call for those little fart in the air baltic states. If they really think western euros would sacrifice nuclear anahilation to save some latvian/lithuanians… lol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

Daylamite Warrior said:


> You did! You said Patriot systems werent configured properly. This is irrelevant and a lame excuses. Iranian drones outmaneurvered Patriots and that's the reality.
> 
> What are you talking about?! Patriots are in Iraq and have an ABM role:
> 
> "In addition to these roles, Patriot has been given the function of the U.S. Army's anti-ballistic missile (ABM) system, which is now Patriot's primary mission. The system is expected to stay fielded until at least 2040.[5]"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MIM-104 Patriot - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are also insufficient against Iran, got nothing to do with "configuration":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patriot deployment to Iraq is helpful, but insufficient against Iran
> 
> 
> Iran understands that Patriot air defense systems limit its options for additional aggression. But it also knows that the systems cannot defend against the rockets that Iran's proxies in Iraq have repeatedly lobbed with deadly effect at U.S. and coalition troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defensenews.com


Wrong, when Iran launch the ballistic missiles in retaliation against U.S. bases, there were no Patriots at the time. There was no need since at the time U.S. was fighting ISIS that doesn't have ballistic missiles. And even your Iranian military showed before and after changes with the attacks where there was no radars in Iraq and then afterwards there were tons of them. Even the Iranian posters posted and talked about it. I'm sure someone can post it here to show it.



jhungary said:


> I found it funny for these Russian worshipper.
> 
> Aren't y'all saying Russia is fighting NATO gloriously?? Now it is the EXACT chance to put Russian money where their mouth is and ACTUALLY fight some NATO, why all these suddenly become "This is false flag' and "This is Ukrainian provocation" Aren't these exactly what y'all Russian supporter looking for??
> 
> LOL


Exactly. Always claim they are actually fighting NATO (Ukraine) until when real NATO comes. Then it becomes denial.



jhungary said:


> There are two issue here if this is ruled to be accidental.
> 
> 1.) NATO can still response, just not with direct Military interaction. IE boots on the ground.
> 2.) Poland or Selective country can response on their own. Military interaction can be done thru that
> 
> Don't forget, whether or not this is an accidental attack, this may not involve NATO, but as per international law, Poland could response. Because that is a military attack on Poland Soil. Which mean Poland can seek help and form an alliance on the issue and that alliance can per international law involve in the "self-defence operation". Which mean basically it will be the same, if the big player in NATO response to Poland call.


Should be a limited attack in response. Like hitting a Russian base in Kherson or even Crimea. Let the Russians know not to send missiles into western Ukraine near Poland.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Daylamite Warrior

LeGenD said:


> Patriot configurations are *NOT* homogeneous around the world - there are technical differences in launchers, interceptors, and even radar systems in use.
> 
> I pointed out that Americans have demonstrated Patriot configurations that can detect, track and intercept drones and/or cruise missiles in real time. I can present evidence of these live-fire trials, if necessary.
> 
> Question mark is on Saudi Patriot configurations:
> 
> _"It's not an interceptor-shortage problem: It's a radar problem. Those radars are not able to detect low-flying weapons," Saab explained._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Houthi drones make Saudi Arabia an easy target – DW – 03/30/2022
> 
> 
> A recent high-profile strike on an oil depot in Jeddah by Houthi rebels has underlined Saudi Arabia's military defense vulnerability — and threatens its reputation as a global investment location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for BMDS capability in Iraq:
> 
> _The Department of Defense confirmed last week that it deployed Patriot air and missile defense systems to Iraq. The two batteries went to Ain al-Asad Air Base and Irbil Air Base — *three months after *Tehran targeted those bases with ballistic missile attacks. Tehran took advantage of the lack of ballistic missile defenses, inju
> ring dozens of U.S. troops._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patriot deployment to Iraq is helpful, but insufficient against Iran
> 
> 
> Iran understands that Patriot air defense systems limit its options for additional aggression. But it also knows that the systems cannot defend against the rockets that Iran's proxies in Iraq have repeatedly lobbed with deadly effect at U.S. and coalition troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defensenews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clear enough?
> 
> Do not laugh at my posts "prematurely." Take this as a warning. WE are not exchanging jokes here.



I am allowed to use emojis if I find something laughable. There is no rule stating I cant use emojis prematurely. Just like how people are allowed to negative rate on things that dont agree with their agenda.

You can give me whatever test data you want, the fact is they have never been tested with Iranian technology. Probably either dated Soviet or old American tech. 

The bottom line is that whatever the configuration, which I reject as a valid excuse, Patriots failed in defending Saudi Arabia against Iranian drones. I even gave you evidence whereby Patriot missiles are not designed for drones and low level projectiles, and other members had to remind you of this...yet you continue down this path of configurations.

What use is a patriot if its radars arent up to scratch? You're proving my point.

You basically reposted the article I gave you, and it even says in the headline that they are insufficient against Iranian power. Here's what doesnt make sense, is that patriots have been in Iraq since 2003 and were responsible for friend fire:









Vaunted Patriot Missile Has a 'Friendly Fire' Failing


The defensive system, by lethally targeting allied jets, has raised concerns about its readiness.




www.latimes.com





There is also no evidence that they left Iraq either so I reject the propaganda that they came to the rescue after Ain al Assad.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592653968664334337

Reactions: Like Like:
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## LeGenD

Abid123 said:


> This thread is hilarious. If Russia wanted to it could have carpet bombed Ukraine like America did to Iraq, Korea and Vietnam. The Russians choose not to do so.
> 
> Russia could have in fact dropped a single nuclear bomb in the outskirts of a major Ukrainian city and the war would be over.
> 
> The only reason they are not doing so it because Ukrainians are their blood brothers.



Russia cannot carpet bomb Ukraine because VKS is unable to overcome Ukranian A2/AD assets. 

_From early March, the VKS lost the ability to operate in Ukrainian-controlled airspace except at very low altitudes due to its inability to reliably suppress or destroy increasingly effective, well-dispersed and mobile Ukrainian surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems._

+

_Without air superiority, Russia’s attempts at strategic air attack have been limited to expensive cruise and ballistic missile barrages at a much more limited scale. These failed to achieve strategically decisive damage during the first seven months of the invasion. However, the latest iteration is a more focused and sustainable bombardment of the Ukrainian electricity grid, blending hundreds of cheap Iranian-supplied Shahed-136 loitering munitions against substations with continued use of cruise and ballistic missiles against larger targets._









The Russian Air War and Ukrainian Requirements for Air Defence


Further Western support is needed to ensure that Kyiv can counter Moscow's updated approach to the air war in Ukraine.




rusi.org





Carpet bombing = not possible

Use of standoff munitions = possible

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> The war can only ends with negotiation, and by "the war" I don't mean just this one, because even after Ukraine successfully push Russian off everywhere that was belong to Ukraine prior to 2022 or even 2014, the Russo-Ukrainian will NOT end there, this will only be part 1 (or 2 if you count 2014 as well) of the Russo-Ukrainian war. As long as the ambition is there, Russia will come back for Part 2, 3 or 4 or whenever until they either got bored or have no mean to continue.
> 
> The only way I can see this war went out is to basically just grant Ukraine NATO membership. They may as well be, after we have send them that many advance equipment and let them know our secret and share our Intel capability with them, it would be stupid not to include Ukraine in NATO? Because it would be extremely stupid to have all these hardware and knowledge to either go back to Russia or worse, went to China, if NATO dump Ukraine.
> 
> I don't think Ukrainian are willing to negotiate unless NATO membership is on the table, because if not, there are no way it can guarantee Russia won't come back and do a Part 2. And then I think Russia is not going to like that. Which mean mostly, the war continue.


Could be like the Korean War with a truce but hasn't ended. So in a scenario where Ukraine kicks the Russians out but Putin refuses to end the war. Artillery strikes, special forces, missile strikes etc. like you see with the Korean War during the Cold War days where skirmishes are ongoing. North Korea firing artillery, sneaking in special forces by submarine, North Korean and South Korea ships sometimes firing on each other, even a South Korea ship being sunk.



LeGenD said:


> Russia cannot carpet bomb Ukraine because VKS is unable to overcome Ukranian A2/AD assets.
> 
> _From early March, the VKS lost the ability to operate in Ukrainian-controlled airspace except at very low altitudes due to its inability to reliably suppress or destroy increasingly effective, well-dispersed and mobile Ukrainian surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems._
> 
> +
> 
> _Without air superiority, Russia’s attempts at strategic air attack have been limited to expensive cruise and ballistic missile barrages at a much more limited scale. These failed to achieve strategically decisive damage during the first seven months of the invasion. However, the latest iteration is a more focused and sustainable bombardment of the Ukrainian electricity grid, blending hundreds of cheap Iranian-supplied Shahed-136 loitering munitions against substations with continued use of cruise and ballistic missiles against larger targets._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian Air War and Ukrainian Requirements for Air Defence
> 
> 
> Further Western support is needed to ensure that Kyiv can counter Moscow's updated approach to the air war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rusi.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carpet bombing = not possible
> 
> Use of standoff munitions = possible


I be happy to see them try and lose a bunch of strategic bombers that were a threat to NATO.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Oldman1 said:


> Wrong, when Iran launch the ballistic missiles in retaliation against U.S. bases, there were no Patriots at the time. There was no need since at the time U.S. was fighting ISIS that doesn't have ballistic missiles. And even your Iranian military showed before and after changes with the attacks where there was no radars in Iraq and then afterwards there were tons of them. Even the Iranian posters posted and talked about it. I'm sure someone can post it here to show it.



No, YOURE wrong! Patriots have been in Iraq since 2003 and have never left. This is some fairytale propaganda that they came to the rescue after 2020. Iraq and then Iran was always a missile threat throught the Iraq invasion and resurgency. Obviously you yanks beefed up your shit after getting embarrased by us, but that doesnt negate the fact patriots where present in Iraq and would have had to have radars. There is no way a US base was operating there without ABM protection or radars. To add to that, Iran was a threat since 2005, US was too busy arming ISIS to fight the shia. Stop revising history we all lived through, you may be able to do it with The Crusades or the World Wars, but not with post 9/11 wars.

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## Oldman1

Daylamite Warrior said:


> No, YOURE wrong! Patriots have been in Iraq since 2003 and have never left. This is some fairytale propaganda that they came to the rescue after 2020. Iraq and then Iran was always a missile threat throught the Iraq invasion and resurgency. Obviously you yanks beefed up your shit after getting embarrased by us, but that doesnt negate the fact patriots where present in Iraq and would have had to have radars. There is no way a US base was operating there without ABM protection or radars. To add to that, Iran was a threat since 2005, US was too busy arming ISIS to fight the shia. Stop revising history we all lived through, you may be able to do it with The Crusades or the World Wars, but not with post 9/11 wars.


LOL! Did you see any evidence of Patriots being used during the attacks? Did you? 









Patriot missile defense systems now active in Iraq, say US officials


Patriot missile launchers and two other short-range systems are now in place at al-Asad Air Base,.




www.defensenews.com





Patriot missile defense systems now active in Iraq, say US officials​By Lolita C. Baldor, The Associated Press
Apr 13, 2020

WASHINGTON — New air defense systems are now protecting American and allied forces at military bases in Iraq where troops have been attacked by Iranian-backed insurgents in recent months, according to U.S. officials.

Patriot missile launchers and two other short-range systems are now in place at al-Asad Air Base, where Iran carried out a massive ballistic missile attack against U.S. and coalition troops in January, and at the military base in Irbil, said officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive weapons movement. A short-range rocket defense system was installed at Camp Taji.

The military has been gradually moving the defensive systems into Iraq over the last few months to provide more protection for troops that have seen a series of rocket and missile attacks.

*Soon after Iran launched a massive ballistic missile assault against troops at al-Asad in January, questions were raised about the lack of air defense systems at the bases. But it has taken time to overcome tensions and negotiate with Iraqi leaders, and to also locate defense systems that could be shifted into Iraq. Prior to the missile attacks, U.S. military leaders did not believe the systems were needed there, more than in other locations around the world where such strikes are more frequent.*

The systems are now operational, as top U.S. officials warn that threats from Iranian proxy groups continue.

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## Han Patriot

Abid123 said:


> This thread is hilarious. If Russia wanted to it could have carpet bombed Ukraine like America did to Iraq, Korea and Vietnam. The Russians choose not to do so.
> 
> Russia could have in fact dropped a single nuclear bomb in the outskirts of a major Ukrainian city and the war would be over.
> 
> The only reason they are not doing so it because Ukrainians are their blood brothers.


Exactly, but cheerleaers here want war.


----------



## Oldman1

Abid123 said:


> This thread is hilarious. If Russia wanted to it could have carpet bombed Ukraine like America did to Iraq, Korea and Vietnam. The Russians choose not to do so.
> 
> Russia could have in fact dropped a single nuclear bomb in the outskirts of a major Ukrainian city and the war would be over.
> 
> The only reason they are not doing so it because Ukrainians are their blood brothers.


More like the Russians couldn't afford to lose those bombers. And Ukrainians still have MIGs and Sukhois flying around with air to air missiles. And using a nuke is just stupid, not because the Ukrainians are their so called blood brothers, I mean looking at how they are treating them right now.

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## Vergennes

Abid123 said:


> This thread is hilarious. If Russia wanted to it could have carpet bombed Ukraine like America did to Iraq, Korea and Vietnam. The Russians choose not to do so.
> 
> Russia could have in fact dropped a single nuclear bomb in the outskirts of a major Ukrainian city and the war would be over.
> 
> The only reason they are not doing so it because Ukrainians are their blood brothers.



What a load of crap.

You just have to look at Mariupol and cities and villages of eastern Ukraine which have been leveled and carpet bombed to the last house.

Yes but this isn't call of duty where you drop nuclear weapons in a war of agression and BTW the US has made clear they would respond,the reason Russia backed down,surely not because "they see Ukrainians as brothers". The US would simply pulverize Russia. Russia can't even capture a road intersection in eastern Ukraine for months and some here believe the Russian army is some kind of capable fighting force,lmao.

Russians are leveling entire Ukrainian cities,killing,raping,pillaging everything they can find but "they don't because Ukrainian are their blood brothers",lmao.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakFactor

Abid123 said:


> This thread is hilarious. If Russia wanted to it could have carpet bombed Ukraine like America did to Iraq, Korea and Vietnam. The Russians choose not to do so.
> 
> Russia could have in fact dropped a single nuclear bomb in the outskirts of a major Ukrainian city and the war would be over.
> 
> The only reason they are not doing so it because Ukrainians are their blood brothers.



That's the stupidest logic; it's like saying Pakistan wouldn't carpet bomb India due to some weird blood relations. If you go to war, you go full throttle and leave nothing on the table except for nukes as a last resort. Going in half-assed, you lose before you start the fight and do a significant disservice to your armed personnel who are decomposing 6 feet under.



LeGenD said:


> It was easy to TALK SHIT about Russia while using Ukraine as a proxy?
> 
> Now that a NATO member state Poland is struck, a meeting is called tomorrow to serve tea and cookies to bureaucratic cowards who will reassure each other with empty patting and discuss ways to minimize the incident.
> 
> It was an accident....
> 
> What if Putin is not playing games anymore? What if this attack is a soft reminder to NATO to back off now?
> 
> WE shall see how tough NATO really is.



In my opinion, not much will happen after their meeting except, as you said, to serve tea and biscuits.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Shawnee

“I ain’t gonna go to war for two Romanian peasants. Losers”

Donald J. Trump


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592699922092290048

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592701636291743745

US saying it wasn’t Russian missiles 

Likely an S-300 missile

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## alimobin memon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592701636291743745
> 
> US saying it wasn’t Russian missiles
> 
> Likely an S-300 missile


Because it wasnt. Someone wants to provoke.

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> Nigga, what are you or NATO exactly going to do? Spell it out for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Russians still hold significant amount of Ukrainian territory.
> 
> View attachment 896814


I mean they’ll keep taking back their territory as they have been.
What’s Russia going to do 🤷🏿‍♂️

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> I never deny it , as I recall the discussion was about if it would be precise in that role or not
> but the question is from where the missile get fired . Russian controlled areas ? I don't think you suggest that as you knew its impossible .
> only remain two options , somewhere in western part of Ukraine or Belarus . the longest range S-300 missile is 200km the village is more than 130km from the nearest possible Belarus air-defense (I say possible because I don't knew where exactly they are, Do you knew where the nearest to the village is) but only 65km from Lviv.
> 
> and well Lviv was under attack guess what they use against those Russian missiles


Again, that changes nothing to what I said. First of all, I didn't say this must be a S-300, nor was it a Russian missile, I don't know, you don't know. I mean, unless you are in Poland right now, there are no way we can know (I think even if we are in poland we probably will not be inform about that.) 

Second of all, I was responding to your post if this is a S-300, it would not be Russian, that's false. As I said, Russia do use S-300 and do use Belarus as base. 

And finally, I just checked, Przewodow is less than 150-180km from Brest depends on where you put the dot. And around 120km from the closet Belarus Border town, it can get there with the maximum range, and then some. 

















Unless you can tell me who a missile that have 200km maximum range as you said, cannot travel at least 120 km to hit target inside Poland??


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> and romans and greeks had it before arabs


That is simply your phantasy.
Where slavery started is hidden in the clouds of time.
Available documentation points at your ancestors.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Could be like the Korean War with a truce but hasn't ended. So in a scenario where Ukraine kicks the Russians out but Putin refuses to end the war. Artillery strikes, special forces, missile strikes etc. like you see with the Korean War during the Cold War days where skirmishes are ongoing. North Korea firing artillery, sneaking in special forces by submarine, North Korean and South Korea ships sometimes firing on each other, even a South Korea ship being sunk.


Well, Korean war can do that and hold that because of UN involvement, which the JSA (or whatever it was called now) and have neutral troop mix with North and South Korean troop along the entire DMZ. 

If Ukraine go with a Korean Solution, I don't think it will work, for starter, Russia will have veto and UN will not be involved, then you only left with one side is Russian, and the other side either NATO or whatever troop we can find that represent "neutral" third party. Which if this is NATO, you are talking about everyday there will be a risk of this is going to turn into WW3. If this is weak third-party troop, then mostly it's pointless because Russia can simply brush them aside when they decided they want to go for round 2.


----------



## khansaheeb

Daylamite Warrior said:


> I am allowed to use emojis if I find something laughable. There is no rule stating I cant use emojis prematurely. Just like how people are allowed to negative rate on things that dont agree with their agenda.
> 
> You can give me whatever test data you want, the fact is they have never been tested with Iranian technology. Probably either dated Soviet or old American tech.
> 
> The bottom line is that whatever the configuration, which I reject as a valid excuse, Patriots failed in defending Saudi Arabia against Iranian drones. I even gave you evidence whereby Patriot missiles are not designed for drones and low level projectiles, and other members had to remind you of this...yet you continue down this path of configurations.
> 
> What use is a patriot if its radars arent up to scratch? You're proving my point.
> 
> You basically reposted the article I gave you, and it even says in the headline that they are insufficient against Iranian power. Here's what doesnt make sense, is that patriots have been in Iraq since 2003 and were responsible for friend fire:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vaunted Patriot Missile Has a 'Friendly Fire' Failing
> 
> 
> The defensive system, by lethally targeting allied jets, has raised concerns about its readiness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is also no evidence that they left Iraq either so I reject the propaganda that they came to the rescue after Ain al Assad.


It would be like trying to hit a fly with a car, Patriots aren't designed for knocking out drones but high speed large ballistic missiles.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592596903769710592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592595677896273920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592606733670944770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592665002535944192


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

LeGenD said:


> It was easy to TALK SHIT about Russia while using Ukraine as a proxy?
> 
> Now that a NATO member state Poland is struck, a meeting is called tomorrow to serve tea and cookies to bureaucratic cowards who will reassure each other with empty patting and discuss ways to minimize the incident.
> 
> It was an accident....
> 
> What if Putin is not playing games anymore? What if this attack is a soft reminder to NATO to back off now?
> 
> WE shall see how tough NATO really is.



NATO is doing exactly what they announced they would do in the NATO charter.
The actions should be aimed at restoring peace and security.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Exactly. Always claim they are actually fighting NATO (Ukraine) until when real NATO comes. Then it becomes denial.



Mostly because it just dawn on them

"Shit just got real" 



Oldman1 said:


> Should be a limited attack in response. Like hitting a Russian base in Kherson or even Crimea. Let the Russians know not to send missiles into western Ukraine near Poland.


If this is what NATO would do, they will most likely just send ATACAMS to Ukraine and have them go nuts on the Russian. 

If NATO are to get involved. That would be a decapitated strike, you won't let Russia get back up and keep the fighting on going. If NATO were to strike, NATO playbook (at least in 2000s) a massive strike package against 60-100% of Russian target in Ukraine. That would have involved a large number of aircraft and a large amount of sortie. 

But as I said, I don't really see this is going to go down like that. Really depends on what the NATO investigation found.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592733567393882112


----------



## lcloo

Lehrasap said:


> It is not only US, but all the Western people have problem with China.
> And this problem is not with Chinese people, but only with the Chinese System of Government.
> If China becomes a real democracy, then there will be no problem any more. At least Western people will not fear China any more, and even support China if US Government tries to do anything wrong.
> Therefore, the biggest problem is Chinese dictatorship.


Nah, the real problem is the West fear their domination of the World being lost to an Asian power. China does not export their political system to the World, while the West is pushing their democracy to the World like the Jesus preachers did to the native "savages" in their colonies.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592703685720936449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592628488028422144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592612345561612288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592647351864537088


----------



## Hack-Hook

m


A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is simply your phantasy.
> Where slavery started is hidden in the clouds of time.
> Available documentation points at your ancestors.
> View attachment 896907


my ancestor was never called Mesopotamian or Sumerian. from where you got the idea my ancestors are from that area,

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## MeFishToo

Daylamite Warrior said:


> I said theyre hitting AD installations. Stop putting words in my mouth and flip flopping. Russian cruise missiles have been doing well enough on hitting supply lines.


Lets pretend you said that. Any examples of *iranian* drones hitting AD installations?


----------



## Shawnee

MeFishToo said:


> Lets pretend you said that. Any examples of *iranian* drones hitting AD installations?



First drone ever hitting an AD was Yemeni drones hitting patriot batteries, per western sources.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592707248341807105


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592778424820838400


----------



## Dalit

This is again escalating fast. Russia is showing that even if it fires a salvo of missiles US/NATO cannot do much other than denouncing.



RoadAmerica said:


> I mean they’ll keep taking back their territory as they have been.
> What’s Russia going to do 🤷🏿‍♂️



Russia is firing missiles upon missiles. Crippling Ukrainian power infrastructure. How will Ukraine fight during a harsh winter?

LOL

Unlikely that Poland missile fired from Russia - Biden



https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-63593855



Oldie did a U-turn. Oldie understands the consequences. If the US admits that Russia fired a missile against a NATO member it would mean an actual war against Russia.

Dude, admit it. Russia has done all it could and the US/NATO stood as spectators. Providing weapons to Ukraine is nowhere near enough. Like I said before, apart from economic sanctions the US/NATO have no other options.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> NATO is low on men, money, ammunition, good rail network, good military vehicles, so this is wise.
> 
> True, but hopefully not, they have to duke it out conventional- but NATO will lose alot of soldiers either way, for one, because of lack of element of surprise- Russia is already in a war, so that makes Russia already prepared, but NATO countries just have postures and forces hanging out- are they REALLY REALLY ready to die for an attempt to use Ukraine as their next proxy?
> 
> but Russia has destroyed so many of the Ukranians, its increasingly fighting NATO- just as mercenaries for now, but still...NATO forces are getting closer and their citizens are fighting in larger numbers- and if you really think Russia is low enough on ammunition that its not prepared for NATO, you will will learn the hard way.


Your predictions and “screenshot this” expertise has been wrong on every occasion. 

This trash “analysis” falls in the same bin.
Nato has 3 million standing army. Yet “running out of men” 

Hilarious

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Your predictions and “screenshot this” expertise has been wrong on every occasion.
> 
> This trash “analysis” falls in the same bin.
> Nato has 3 million standing army. Yet “running out of men”
> 
> Hilarious



Stop bluffing. That time has long passed. NATO did nothing when actual help was required. Even the Ukrainians have openly lambasted US/NATO for doing nothing. Your 3 million standing army has only stood and watched the spectacle. That is the bitter truth.

Even the Polish are now saying one thing and the US president something else. You need to admit the reality. Russia isn't Iraq/Afghanistan. You won't attack Russia directly with force because Russia has the ability to strike back and even start a World War.

Even your staunchest allies like India and Israel are taking a cautious approach by limiting their support to US/NATO. They abstain at UN votes and provide lip service. Modi says that time for war is over LMAO India continues to buy cheap Russian oil.

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## Han Patriot

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592707248341807105


Nice. That's why Russia win in Syria with a tinpot black smoke spewing old carrier.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592707248341807105



What a load of BS, as if Russia had any leverage on this.  And what are actually the assets Russia can seize ?  Russia did sh*t after the west seized every of their assets since the invasion,but they'll magically do so now.

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## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Stop bluffing. That time has long passed. NATO did nothing when actual help was required. Even the Ukrainians have openly lambasted US/NATO for doing nothing.


Bullshit.

Without western money, intel, military support Ukraine would have been overrun instead of retaking 50% of the territory russia occupied. 

Ukranians ofcourse always like to see more help…however they are not a Nato member. 


Dalit said:


> Your 3 million standing army has only stood and watched the spectacle. That is the bitter truth.
> 
> Even now the Polish are saying one thing and the US president something else. You need to admit the reality. Russia isn't Iraq/Afghanistan. You won't attack Russia directly with force because Russia has the ability to strike back and even start a World War.


Russia has thousands of nukes. (Apart from a considerable standing army, though conventionally no near peer)
Ukraine is not a nato member.

So in that context….Ofcourse Nato is not rushing to start worldwar/nuclear holocaust to “look tough”. What are you…an 8 year old?

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592701636291743745
> 
> US saying it wasn’t Russian missiles
> 
> Likely an S-300 missile



We have 2 ground truths:

Multiple radar operators confirming they clearly seen 2 manuevering cruise missiles going there
A Russian propaganda channel posting a photo of a missile flange earlier than anybody in the Poland itself
After that we have 2 reactions:

MH-17 style denial being issued by RU
Biden going - "not deny, not confirm"


----------



## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Without western money, intel, military support Ukraine would have been overrun instead of retaking 50% of the territory russia occupied.
> 
> Ukranians ofcourse always like to see more help…however they are not a Nato member.
> 
> Russia has thousands of nukes. (Apart from a considerable standing army, though conventionally no near peer)
> Ukraine is not a nato member.
> 
> So in that context….Ofcourse Nato is not rushing to start worldwar/nuclear holocaust to “look tough”. What are you…an 8 year old?



Give it up. The writing is on the wall. You have no answers. Russia is walking away unscathed.

LOL Biden U-turn is laughable. Even the NATO is now hiding behind an investigation. Why is Biden already claiming that Russia didn't fire the missile when the investigation isn't concluded yet?

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## Lehrasap

lcloo said:


> Nah, the real problem is the West fear their domination of the World being lost to an Asian power. China does not export their political system to the World, while the West is pushing their democracy to the World like the Jesus preachers did to the native "savages" in their colonies.



It is not about EXPORTING only, China is always on the other side of equation on human rights. 
For example, if West has issue with human rights in Iran, then China will be supporting Iran. 
The same is with Russia. 
The same is with North Korea. 

So, why should the western people support Chinese Government when it is always standing on the other side and bringing negative results for the western people?

Just imagine, if the Western countries are standing on the opposite side, would it be possible for China to still support them? 

The problems with China didn't started after it became a economic power, but these problems existed much before that. 

And the western people also question the logic to have economical ties with China, when it is always standing on the other side.

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## Dalit

Lehrasap said:


> It is not about EXPORTING only, China is always on the other side of equation on human rights.
> For example, if West has issue with human rights in Iran, then China will be supporting Iran.
> The same is with Russia.
> The same is with North Korea.
> 
> So, why should the western people support Chinese Government when it is always standing on the other side and bringing negative results for the western people?
> 
> Just imagine, if the Western countries are standing on the opposite side, would it be possible for China to still support them?
> 
> The problems with China didn't started after it became a economic power, but these problems existed much before that.
> 
> And the western people also question the logic to have economical ties with China, when it is always standing on the other side.



The real problem is that Western powers have problems with almost every developing country. First they colonised, plundered and subjugated developing nations. In today's era, developing nations are economically subjugated.

Bigger nations like China and Russia cannot be bullied into submission. Hence Western chagrin and continued propaganda against both nations.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592733567393882112



There is nothing needed to be shown about the attack other than radar logs.

US can say yes, or no in 5 minutes by releasing these radar logs... but they did't. Why?

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## Lehrasap

Dalit said:


> Stop bluffing. That time has long passed. NATO did nothing when actual help was required. Even the Ukrainians have openly lambasted US/NATO for doing nothing. Your 3 million standing army has only stood and watched the spectacle. That is the bitter truth.
> 
> Even now the Polish are saying one thing and the US president something else. You need to admit the reality. Russia isn't Iraq/Afghanistan. You won't attack Russia directly with force because Russia has the ability to strike back and even start a World War.
> 
> Even your staunchest allies like India and Israel are taking a cautious approach by limiting their support to US/NATO. They abstain at UN votes and provide lip service. Modi says that time for war is over LMAO India continues to buy cheap Russian oil.



You want to indulge in small issues. 

US supported Ukraine or not, but the final results stay the same that Russia is getting the beating and losing war and economy. 

The missile attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure are also temporary. Sooner or later, Russia will lose this battle too, while Russian combined with Iran cannot win against NATO supplies. 

Israel and India are very much a non-issue here. What they are doing is wrong, but still it is very much a non-issue and will not have effects to change the results of actual war.



Dalit said:


> The real problem is that Western powers have problems with almost every developing country. First they colonised, plundered and subjugated developing nations. In today's era, developing nations are economically subjugated.
> 
> Bigger nations like China and Russia cannot be bullied into submission. Hence Western chagrin and continued propaganda against both nations.



You are wrong. Every nation does the same to others. Do you think that Muslims nations or China would have done something different? 

Actually, the Western countries are much better than the so called developing nations and China. 

Just look how Pakistan sent all the Afghan refugees back to Afghanistan. 

Just look how Arabs behave with Pakistanis.

Or just look how Pakistanis behaved with Bengalis prior to 1971.

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## Dalit

Lehrasap said:


> You want to indulge in small issues.
> 
> US supported Ukraine or not, but the final results stay the same that Russia is getting the beating and losing war and economy.
> 
> The missile attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure are also temporary. Sooner or later, Russia will lose this battle too, while Russian combined with Iran cannot win against NATO supplies.
> 
> Israel and India are very much a non-issue here. What they are doing is wrong, but still it is very much a non-issue and will not have effects to change the results of actual war.



All wishful thinking on your part. At the end of the day, Russia walks away with more strategically important territory for itself. Something you will never admit. That cannot be termed as loss for Russia.

Russia has turned off the gas tap and the whole world has seen how this has impacted the world economy in so many ways. Initially we heard so much bluff from your side. Russia wasn't going to survive. We all know how that turned out. Almost a year on and Russia is still pouncing Ukraine as we speak.

It isn't temporary. It is ongoing and Russians won't stop until they have completely crippled Ukrainian power grids etc. If it was temporary the Russians wouldn't have carried out multiple missile strikes until now.

The flip flopping by the US is also a dead give away. Biden claims that Russia didn't hit Poland with a missile. Poland and Ukraine claim that Russia fired the missile. It is an absurd comedy.

India and Israel have shown you guys the mirror. They claim to be your best buddies outside the Western region. Their muted response and lip sevice is known to everyone.

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## Soldier35

The fall of a Ukrainian 5V55 S-300 SAM missile near the town of Hrubieshu in Poland once again confirmed reports of problems with these missiles. The video shows the recent launch of a Ukrainian missile of the S-300 air defense system. The rocket flies a little and the rocket's solid fuel explodes, this can be seen from the characteristic explosion that occurs in such cases. The fact is that the shelf life of S-300 air defense missiles is 20 years. The last Ukrainian missiles were fired in 1990, then they simply tried to extend their shelf life at the Zhulyansk machine-building plant "Vizar". It turns out that the shelf life of Ukrainian S-300 air defense missiles has already been exceeded by almost 13 years, so the number of cases of their self-destruction and incorrect operation will grow every day. The problem with missiles is also relevant for the Buk-M1 air defense system of Ukraine, there have already been cases of their incorrect operation.






The Ukrainian engineering barrier vehicle IMR-2 was hit by a Russian Lancet kamikaze drone. The IMR-2 obstacle blocking machine is designed to create columned paths in difficult places for the advancement of troops, in simple terms, the machine makes temporary roads. IMR-2 also creates passages in minefields.






The President of Ukraine showed footage of the assembly of Ukrainian sea drones. The same kamikaze boats were recently used in Sevastopol. The length of the new marine drone of Ukraine will be 5.5 meters, the cruising range is 800 km, and the operational range is 400 km. It is reported that the drone has an autonomy of up to 60 hours. The total mass of the sea drone is about 1000 kg, the mass of the warhead is up to 200 kg. The travel speed can reach 80 km/h. The cost of the drone is currently $10,000. Now in Ukraine, a fundraising for the industrial production of this type of drones has been announced.






Combat use of Russian Lancet kamikaze drones in Ukraine. A howitzer of the Ukrainian army fell under the impact of the Lancet drone, but it was not possible to establish the model of the weapon.






Footage of a Ukrainian-made Humvee armored vehicle hit by a mine has been published. The video was filmed during one of their attacks by mobile groups of the Ukrainian army, there were only two Humvee vehicles in the group, the second Ukrainian armored personnel carrier left.

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## Dalit

Lehrasap said:


> You are wrong. Every nation does the same to others. Do you think that Muslims nations or China would have done something different?
> 
> Actually, the Western countries are much better than the so called developing nations and China.
> 
> Just look how Pakistan sent all the Afghan refugees back to Afghanistan.
> 
> Just look how Arabs behave with Pakistanis.
> 
> Or just look how Pakistanis behaved with Bengalis prior to 1971.



Get your facts corrected.

Western countries are hypocritical. You have been colonizing every brown counry on the planet including those that you have now supposedly befriended and call allies LOL

Afghanistan had an illegtimate and imported government. We all know how the US/NATO lost the war in Afghanistan. You guys even failed to provide refuge to Afghan interpreters that helped you during the war. Yes, Pakistan won't provide refuge to Afghan collaborators. Deal with it.

We don't give a crap about Arabs. LOL we have already seen how much love the West shows to Arabs. Just ask the Qataris who are about to host the WC.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Yeah, that's really hurt, there are rumour that Ukrainian have breached the other side of Dnieper in 3 points (The Kinburn, Oleshky and Nova Kakovkha). The kinburn is already confirmed, if the other 2 is true, that's a big progress


Yes that’s confirmed from what I read too. the Russians retreating 10-20km further from the Knipro because they fear Ukraine artillery. The Himars has a range of 85km, if firing long range ballistic they missiles can reach a distance of 300km.


----------



## LeGenD

Daylamite Warrior said:


> I am allowed to use emojis if I find something laughable. There is no rule stating I cant use emojis prematurely. Just like how people are allowed to negative rate on things that dont agree with their agenda.
> 
> You can give me whatever test data you want, the fact is they have never been tested with Iranian technology. Probably either dated Soviet or old American tech.
> 
> The bottom line is that whatever the configuration, which I reject as a valid excuse, Patriots failed in defending Saudi Arabia against Iranian drones. I even gave you evidence whereby Patriot missiles are not designed for drones and low level projectiles, and other members had to remind you of this...yet you continue down this path of configurations.
> 
> What use is a patriot if its radars arent up to scratch? You're proving my point.
> 
> You basically reposted the article I gave you, and it even says in the headline that they are insufficient against Iranian power. Here's what doesnt make sense, is that patriots have been in Iraq since 2003 and were responsible for friend fire:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vaunted Patriot Missile Has a 'Friendly Fire' Failing
> 
> 
> The defensive system, by lethally targeting allied jets, has raised concerns about its readiness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is also no evidence that they left Iraq either so I reject the propaganda that they came to the rescue after Ain al Assad.



*1. *You are allowed to use emojis (absolutely) but apply them in sensible ways. It is NOT OK to habitually laugh at posts of a particular member to show your disagreement because chances are that you might be wrong. Debate your points and see how it goes. You might correct a point or two but your other points might be proven wrong.

And when a Mod tells you to stop, you stop. Mods understand Forum Rules well enough.

*2. *You think Americans cannot conduct realistic tests? What is so special about Iranian technology that Americans cannot replicate in house to stress-test their systems? US is globally respected for its technological prowess - they teach others how to do it.

*3. *Saudi Patriot configuration(s) are equipped with older AN/MPG-53 radar system. The Patriot battery stationed near Abqaiq oil refinery was equipped with a single AN/MPG-53 radar system when Iran attacked said refinery in 2019; the radar system's Line-Of-Sight (120 degree) was easily bypassed because it was pointed towards Yemen. I pointed out this problem back then:






Rouhani Says Houthis Were Able to Hit Saudi Oil Facilities Due to US Missile Defence Weakness


Rouhani Says Houthis Were Able to Hit Saudi Oil Facilities Due to US Missile Defence Weakness 17:17 24.09.2019(updated 17:50 24.09.2019) Last week, media reports said that the US had redeployed the USS Nitze destroyer to the northeast coast of Saudi Arabia in a bid to "plug the gap" in Saudi...



defence.pk





How to address this problem?

_A single Patriot missile defense radar can’t watch both high and low at once – but the whole point of IBCS is to connect previously incompatible systems, in this case Patriot and Sentinel, and let any command post on the network get high-fidelity data from different kinds of radars in different locations._









IBCS Defeats 2 Missiles in Flight - But 100s In Simulation - Breaking Defense


Thursday's near-simultaneous intercept of a cruise missile and a ballistic missile was far from the hardest thing the IBCS battalion has done.




breakingdefense.com





US introduced much better AN/MPG-64 Sentinel radar system for the Patriot system to detect and track new types of threats including drones and cruise missiles, and also programmed the Patriot system to take cues from multiple sophisticated radar systems in the state-of-the-art IBCS Patriot configuration to defeat drones and cruise missiles. This technology was tested in-house.

Further evidence:



MQM-107 tried to dodge Patriot by flying low, but was shot down eventually – Alert 5



Saudi do *NOT* have IBCS Patriot configuration.

I have repeatedly pointed out that Saudi have work to do. But they are busy antagonizing US. Iran and Houthi see opportunity in this rift.

*4. *So you reject FACTS because they do not fit your narrative? Very constructive. No wonder you are putting off other members left, right and center.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592733567393882112



Exactly.

NATO have remarkable surveillance capabilities. They can see a lot of activity in real time.

They do not need to "investigate" as stated in some articles. They know what happened.

Now the point is about doing something about it or chicken out. Now the ball is in your court.

Your side talks about BALLS. Time for your side to show them.

Nobody will play with nuclear button too soon. This is talk of COWARDS.

Ukraine have shown more BALLS than many countries put together in this war. They have conducted operations inside Russian mainland. Zelenskyy put many braggers to SHAME.

Let us see how mighty Poland is now. Easy to TALK SHIT about Russia from a distance when your country wasn't burning.

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> I think Chinese elite loves more USA than Russia.
> 
> If you are rich, do you would spend your money in Miami or in Siberia?


As someone who knows China in and out, I tell you a secret: Chinese are capitalists. They want to become rich. The weaker the poorer Russia becomes, the cheaper they can buy from the dumb nationalist Putin. As for US or the West, despite their love of anti west rhetoric they will be the first that buy overpriced Tesla and French bags.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Yes that’s confirmed from what I read too. the Russians retreating 10-20km further from the Knipro because they fear Ukraine artillery. The Himars has a range of 85km, if firing long range ballistic they missiles can reach a distance of 300km.


This is going to be fun. 

Even British source confirmed Ukrainian force is in Kinburn, if Russia don't get it right, they might have their entire left flank rolled by the Ukrainian, that would not be good,

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## LeGenD

PakFactor said:


> That's the stupidest logic; it's like saying Pakistan wouldn't carpet bomb India due to some weird blood relations. If you go to war, you go full throttle and leave nothing on the table except for nukes as a last resort. Going in half-assed, you lose before you start the fight and do a significant disservice to your armed personnel who are decomposing 6 feet under.
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion, not much will happen after their meeting except, as you said, to serve tea and biscuits.


Beautifully said, bro.

Some members think that Russia is on a picnic ride in Ukraine - they are soft. Utterly deluded.

Russian forces have bombed some towns and cities to dust, and some troops have committed horrible crimes in some regions. Various sectors of Ukraine plunged to darkness in the present due to frightening volleys of standoff munitions that keep coming after a gap.

I told some members that Russia is attacking Ukraine in force and you guys will see horrible things in time.

Some are still in denial. These members should be dispatched to Ukraine - then they will understand how cozy and comfy they are in their homes. People never learn.

Ukranian fighting spirit is tremendous. They have fought back to mitigate loss of property and lives across the country. Ukraine is creating history unlike many countries.

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## scimitar19

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592707248341807105


Iranian government can ask Russia to freeze all western assets in the amount that west is holding Iranian assets including banking accounts. If west does not release Iranian assets then Iran can simply confiscate all western assets that are located in Russia.


----------



## Vergennes

LeGenD said:


> Beautifully said, bro.
> 
> Some members think that Russia is on a picnic ride in Ukraine - they are soft. Utterly deluded.
> 
> Russian forces have bombed some towns and cities to dust, and some troops have committed horrible crimes in some regions. Various sectors of Ukraine plunged to darkness in the present due to frightening volleys of standoff munitions that keep coming after a gap.
> 
> I told some members that Russia is attacking Ukraine in force and you guys will see horrible things in time.
> 
> Some are still in denial. These members should be dispatched to Ukraine - then they will understand how cozy and comfy they are in their homes. People never learn.
> 
> Ukranian fighting spirit is tremendous. They have fought back to mitigate loss of property and lives across the country. Ukraine is creating history unlike many countries.



Some members here are too much deluded after decades of being fed of the Russian military might when it is a force rigged with incompetence, corruption and nepotism. So much deluded that they come with claims such as "Russia is soft" "They are sending second rate forces in Ukraine" "The real army is in Russia waiting for NATO".

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## Primus

US volunteers for the Ukrainians conducting recon.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

lcloo said:


> Nah, the real problem is the West fear their domination of the World being lost to an Asian power. China does not export their political system to the World, while the West is pushing their democracy to the World like the Jesus preachers did to the native "savages" in their colonies.



Why do you people hate democracy so much? i mean I know you people are savages and all. But the ability to vote for someone to represent you is good. Just look at Putin & Xi Jinping to see how they run their country to the ground. Would be nice if someone beat them in an election. 

You see... Democracy is *checks note* good.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Lehrasap said:


> You want to indulge in small issues.
> 
> US supported Ukraine or not, but the final results stay the same that Russia is getting the beating and losing war and economy.
> 
> The missile attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure are also temporary. Sooner or later, Russia will lose this battle too, while Russian combined with Iran cannot win against NATO supplies.
> 
> Israel and India are very much a non-issue here. What they are doing is wrong, but still it is very much a non-issue and will not have effects to change the results of actual war.
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong. Every nation does the same to others. Do you think that Muslims nations or China would have done something different?
> 
> Actually, the Western countries are much better than the so called developing nations and China.
> 
> Just look how Pakistan sent all the Afghan refugees back to Afghanistan.
> 
> Just look how Arabs behave with Pakistanis.
> 
> Or just look how Pakistanis behaved with Bengalis prior to 1971.



People forget that a lot of third world nations engages in subhuman savagery it's not just the West. 

India and the surrounding countries blocking the rohingyas, China with their ethnic minorities, Russia with everything they do, The West with the refugee crisis. Even Africa & Asia are just as cruel if not more crueller than the West. And engages in just as much hypocrisy. 

China & Russia especially their foreign policy can be sum up in just 4 words: "Two Wrongs, Makes Right."

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## Reashot Xigwin

Look at that the G20 United on something for once. I guess even China knows that Russia is a losing bet. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592807068289073155

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## Primus

I like how this thread goes back and forth between talking about the war and then talking about Islam and Muslim nations. 🙃


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## RoadAmerica

Catalystic said:


> What do you mean?
> You dumb fucks need to go prepare for whats coming.


What’s coming wise one?
Can I screen shot this 😂


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592865353411227649

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592875578017079297


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592838301337387008


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592838301337387008




Because they can't make NATO join the war after Biden ruled it out this time. That is why Poland's leadership is backing out.

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## RoadAmerica

Dalit said:


> This is again escalating fast. Russia is showing that even if it fires a salvo of missiles US/NATO cannot do much other than denouncing.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is firing missiles upon missiles. Crippling Ukrainian power infrastructure. How will Ukraine fight during a harsh winter?
> 
> LOL
> 
> Unlikely that Poland missile fired from Russia - Biden
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-63593855
> 
> 
> 
> Oldie did a U-turn. Oldie understands the consequences. If the US admits that Russia fired a missile against a NATO member it would mean an actual war against Russia.
> 
> Dude, admit it. Russia has done all it could and the US/NATO stood as spectators. Providing weapons to Ukraine is nowhere near enough. Like I said before, apart from economic sanctions the US/NATO have no other options.


And Ukraine keeps making gains so what’s the point of firing all this missiles at civilian targets? 
My point stands Russia has shown they don’t have any recourse as of now than to target civilians



Dalit said:


> Give it up. The writing is on the wall. You have no answers. Russia is walking away unscathed.
> 
> LOL Biden U-turn is laughable. Even the NATO is now hiding behind an investigation. Why is Biden already claiming that Russia didn't fire the missile when the investigation isn't concluded yet?


Unscathed, seriously?
Their army has been destroyed and they’ve shown to be a paper bear.
Oh and their air force barely got off the ground 
But Russia is winning right?

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592883156826599430

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, NOVEMBER 15​Nov 15, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
* 
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 15
Kateryna Stepanenko, Riley Bailey, Grace Mappes, Madison Williams, Yekaterina Klepanchuk, and Frederick W. Kagan
November 15, 10:30 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces conducted the largest set of missile strikes against Ukrainian critical infrastructure since the start of the war. *Ukrainian Air Force Command spokesperson Yuriy Ignat reported on November 15 that Russian forces launched about 100 Kh-101 and Kh-555 cruise missiles at targets in Ukraine, primarily against Ukrainian critical infrastructure facilities.[1] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Russian forces targeted Ukrainian infrastructure with ten drones.[2] Ukrainian and Russian sources reported that Russian forces struck targets in Kyiv as well as in Rivne, Zhytomyr, Lviv, Khmelnytskyi, Dnipropetrovsk, Poltava, Vinnytsia, Odesa, Kirovohrad, Cherkasy, Volyn, and Kharkiv oblasts.[3]
*The Russian military likely used a substantial portion of its remaining high-precision weapon systems in the coordinated missile strikes on November 15. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian air defenses shot down 73 Russian cruise missiles and all drones on November 15.[4] Ukrainian air defenses had previously shot down 43 cruise missiles out of 84 and 13 drones out of 24 during the October 10 coordinated Russian missile strikes.[5] Ukraine‘s increased shoot-down percentage illustrates the improvement in Ukrainian air defenses in the last month, and the Ukrainian General Staff attributed this improvement to the effectiveness of Western-provided air defense systems. ISW also assesses that Russian forces are greatly depleting their stock of high-precision weapons systems and will likely have to slow the pace of their campaign against critical Ukrainian infrastructure.[6] Russian missile strikes continue to pose a threat to the Ukrainian civilian population with Ukrainian Deputy Head of the Presidential Office Kyrylo Tymoshenko stating that the energy situation is rather “critical” in Ukraine.[7] *Damage to Ukraine’s energy infrastructure is unlikely to break Ukrainians’ spirit, however, given Ukraine’s improving air defenses and recent ground victories in Kherson Oblast.
Polish officials announced that a likely “Russian-made missile” landed in Poland within six kilometers of the international border with Ukraine. Western officials have yet to make definitive statements regarding the incident. *The Polish Foreign Ministry stated on November 15 that a “Russian-made missile” killed two Polish citizens in the border village of Przewodow.[8] Polish President Andrzej Duda noted that Poland does not currently have information regarding the actor responsible for firing the missile but noted that the missile was “most probably Russian-made.”[9] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) denied Russia’s involvement in striking any targets near the Ukraine-Polish border and claimed that the incident is a “provocation.”[10] Russian forces, however, did target energy infrastructure in Lviv City, about 72km south of Przewodow.[11] US President Joe Biden stated that according to preliminary information it is unlikely that the missile was fired from territorial Russia but emphasized that the investigation is still ongoing as of the time of this publication.[12] Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky accused Russia of staging a “serious provocation” on NATO territory.[13] ISW will continue to monitor the situation.
*The Kremlin had prepared today’s massive missile campaign before Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy presented his 10-point peace proposal at the G20 summit on November 15. *Zelensky reiterated that Ukraine will negotiate with Russia if the Kremlin totally withdraws its forces from Ukraine, restores Ukraine’s territorial integrity, and ensures punishment for war crimes among other provisions on nuclear, energy, and food security.[14] The Kremlin likely deliberately planned a massive missile strike campaign on Ukraine in anticipation of Zelensky’s speech at the G20 summit given that a multi-direction missile campaign requires significant military preparation. The Russian pro-war community on Telegram claimed that the Kremlin retaliated for Zelensky’s “Russophobic” statements shortly after his speech, but the impossibility of launching such a massive attack on short notice highlights the Kremlin’s disinterest in setting the stage for negotiations with Ukraine.[15]
*The Kremlin’s official narrative surrounding the G20 summit further confirms Russia’s disinterest in the prospect of peace negotiations with Ukraine.* Russian President Vladimir Putin did not appear at the summit and instead signed numerous decrees granting honorary titles to Russian-occupied Ukrainian cities.[16] Putin’s Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov and Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Russia will continue its “special military operation” in Ukraine, accusing Zelensky of unwillingness to negotiate with Russia.[17] Lavrov called Ukraine’s conditions “unrealistic and inadequate,” which has been the Kremlin’s recurrent position throughout the war.[18] Peskov also made a point to emphasize that Russia will still treat liberated Kherson City as the capital of Russian-occupied Kherson Oblast, and Secretary of Russia’s Security Council Nikolai Patrushev repeated the original false narratives used to justify the invasion that Russia needs to defend Donbas and that Ukrainian “Nazis” failed to comply with the Minsk agreements.[19]
*Russian military commanders reportedly ignored existing plans for offensive operations in the Vuhledar direction and committed poorly trained reinforcements to costly assaults on Pavlivka out of impatience. *Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) military commander Aleksandr Khodakovsky claimed on November 15 that Russian forces initially planned to attack in the Vuhledar area from two directions but that he and other commanders realized that the poor training of reinforcements and their inability to contact brigade commanders made such plans impossible.[20] Khodakovsky claimed that brigade commanders changed the plan completely and committed all Russian forces in the area to an attack on Pavlivka, Donetsk Oblast.[21] ISW had previously reported that Russian forces prematurely impaled an insufficient concentration of mobilized personnel on offensive pushes aimed at seizing Pavlivka leading to extensive losses, particularly among the 155th Naval Infantry Brigade of the Pacific Fleet.[22] Russian military officials likely abandoned their initial plans and committed poorly trained reinforcements to the assault on Pavlivka due to a sense of politically-driven urgency to restart the Donetsk offensive campaign before the planned Russian withdrawal from Kherson City.
*The high costs associated with the Russian offensive push on Pavlivka continue to generate criticism of Russian military leadership. *Khodakovsky claimed that Russian military leadership is trying to blame the “miserable results” on the commander of the 40th Separate Naval Infantry Brigade of the Pacific Fleet for not properly supporting the Russian 155th Naval Infantry Brigade.[23] Khodakovsky argued that the brigade commanders are guilty of the high costs of the assault and that the commander of the Russian forces in Ukraine, Army General Sergey Surovikin, should not allow an “innocent” commander to take the blame for the poor planning of Russian military leadership.[24] ISW previously assessed that the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) issued a rare statement on November 7 in response to the extensive Russian milblogger outcry concerning the losses associated with the Pavlivka offensive operation.[25] Khodakovsky’s criticisms of the Russian military command indicate that the Russian MoD likely failed to address the outrage fully and that Russian pro-war figures and milbloggers will continue to criticize Russian military commanders.
*Russians are increasingly turning to various platforms on social media to express their dissatisfaction with mobilization problems, a phenomenon that has the ingredients to ignite organized online-based movements in Russia.* Sixteen anti-war groups in Russia launched a petition demanding that Russian President Vladimir Putin demobilize all mobilized Russian men.[26] The petition has already garnered almost 38,000 signatories as of the time of this publication. About 1,500 mothers of disabled children and mothers with more than three children in their households also petitioned Putin to exempt their husbands from mobilization.[27] Russian opposition and non-governmental organizations such as Soldiers’ Mothers of St. Petersburg had voiced concerns with the Russian Armed Forces prior to the start of the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine but did not receive significant attention within the Russian information space.[28] Grievances over mobilization issues, however, reached the milblogger community that was already critical of the Russian Ministry of Defense and that has been discussing issues with the execution of mobilization since the second day of the order.[29] These grievances are increasingly influencing both the opposition and the pro-war communities, which is a new phenomenon. While Russian police have consistently suppressed small-scale protests throughout the country the Kremlin has yet to regulate platforms such as Telegram that allow Russians across the country to share their discontent and demand action from local officials with the backing of prominent milbloggers.
*Russian officials continued to set conditions to force the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to recognize Russian control over the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) and thereby de facto recognize the Russian annexation of occupied Ukraine*. The IAEA announced on November 14 that Russian ZNPP authorities rejected a Ukrainian proposal to bring two reactors to a low power state from a hot shutdown state and that Russian officials are increasingly making “significant operational decisions,” noting that IAEA Director General Rafael Grossi expressed concern at “open contradictions” in decision making at the ZNPP.[30] The IAEA and Ukraine’s Resistance Center reported that Russia is increasingly importing technical staff from Russian nuclear power plants to the ZNPP.[31] The IAEA’s reporting and concerns about the decision-making hierarchy at the ZNPP is an inflection in the IAEA’s usual communications and suggests that Russian physical control and operational authority over the plant is increasing to a point that is alarming the IAEA.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces conducted the largest set of missile strikes against Ukrainian critical infrastructure since the start of the war, likely using a substantial portion of their remaining high-precision weapon systems.*
*Polish officials announced that a likely “Russian-made missile” landed in Poland within six kilometers of the international border with Ukraine.*
*Russian military commanders reportedly ignored existing plans for offensive operations in the Vuhledar direction and committed poorly trained reinforcements to costly assaults on Pavlivka out of impatience, generating continued criticism of Russian military leadership.*
*Russian officials continued to set conditions to force the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to recognize Russian control over the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) and thereby de facto recognize the Russian annexation of occupied Ukraine.*
*Russians are increasingly turning to various platforms on social media to express their dissatisfaction with mobilization problems, which could ignite organized online anti-war movements in Russia.*
*Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensives in the direction of Svatove and Kreminna, and Ukrainian forces continued targeting Russian logistics to the rear of Luhansk Oblast.*
*Russian forces continued ground attacks near Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and Vuhledar.*
*Premature reports of Ukrainian forces capturing territory on the left bank of the Dnipro River provoked backlash in the Russian information space.*
*Russian logistics routes from Crimea into southern Ukraine are likely highly degraded.*
*Russian forces are continuing to supply their diminishing supplies with Belarusian military equipment.*
*Russian officials continued to minimize the role of proxy officials in occupied territories in favor of Russian officials.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and two supporting efforts);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Eastern Kharkiv Oblast-Western Luhansk Oblast)*
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations in the direction of Svatove and Kreminna on November 15. A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted assaults within 13km northwest of Svatove in the direction of Stelmakhivka and Kuzemivka and that Ukrainian forces entrenched themselves on the western outskirts of Kuzemivka.[32] A Ukrainian source stated that there was heavy fighting in the area of Novomykilske (9km south of Svatove).[33] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian assaults northwest of Kreminna in the direction of Chervonopopivka and south of Kreminna in the direction of Zolotarivka.[34] Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces attempted to advance towards Kreminna from the north and south but were unsuccessful and that fighting is ongoing 12km south of Kreminna near Bilohorivka.[35] A milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces are accumulating near Makiivka (24km west of Kreminna) and are probing nearby Russian defensive positions.[36] Another milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces are amassing to launch future offensives on Svatove, Kreminna, Lysychansk, and Popasna, although ISW offers no assessment about claims regarding future Ukrainian operations.[37] The Ukrainian General Staff reported on November 15 that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian ground assault near Novoselivske, Luhansk Oblast (13km northwest of Svatove).[38] Russian forces continue to conduct limited counterattacks likely to constrain the actions of Ukrainian forces and not to regain limited territory.
Ukrainian forces continued to target Russian military logistics and concentration areas in Luhansk Oblast on November 15. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian artillery units struck Russian positions in Kreminna and that the personnel from degraded units are planning to escape from the city.[39] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian forces struck a Russian headquarters south of Svatove in Mylovatka, Luhansk Oblast, killing at least 30 Russian military personnel and wounding more than 20 others.[40] A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian artillery units are massively shelling the Olshana-Pervomaiske-Orlianka-Yahidne line.[41] The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) People’s Militia claimed that Ukrainian forces also struck Denezhnykove, Luhansk Oblast with three HIMARS rockets.[42] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces conducted routine air, missile, and artillery strikes along the line of contact in eastern Kharkiv and western Luhansk oblasts.[43]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued offensive operations around Bakhmut on November 15. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces continued to repel Russian ground attacks near Bakhmut, and northeast of Bakhmut near Bilohorivka and Bakhmutske along the T1302 highway.[44] Geolocated footage published on November 14 shows that Russian forces established positions in southeastern Mayorsk.[45] A Russian source claimed that intense fighting is ongoing north of Horlivka (about 27km south of Bakhmut).[46] Geolocated footage showed the aftermath of a Ukrainian HIMARS strike against a Russian base in Horlivka.[47] Russian and Ukrainian forces continued routine artillery strikes around Bakhmut.[48]
Russian forces continued to carry out offensive operations in the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area on November 15. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian ground attacks near Krasnohorivka and Pervomaiske on the northwestern outskirts of Donetsk City and Marinka and Novomykhailivka on the southwestern outskirts of Donetsk City.[49] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian ground attack near Novokalynove (about 42km northwest of Donetsk City).[50] Russian sources claimed that fighting is ongoing near Pervomaiske, Vodyane, Nevelske (about 19km northwest of Donetsk City), and Opytne (about 12km northwest of Donetsk City).[51] The Donetsk People’s Republic Territorial Defense reiterated claims that Russian forces seized Opytne and plan to advance on Avdiivka.[52] Another Russian source reported that Russian forces are on the northern outskirts of Opytne, indicating that Russian forces do not currently control the entire settlement.[53] Both Russian and Ukrainian forces continued routine artillery strikes along the contact line in the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area.[54]
Russian forces continued offensive operations in western Donetsk Oblast on November 15. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian ground assault near Vremivka, Donetsk Oblast.[55] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) reiterated claims that Russian forces completely captured Pavlivka on November 14 and claimed that Russian forces killed up to 1,400 Ukrainian personnel during the offensive, which is highly implausible.[56] Donetsk Oblast Administration Head Pavlo Kyrylenko reported that Russian forces shelled Pavlivka and Prechystivka (12km west of Vuhledar).[57] A Russian source claimed that Russian artillery repelled a Ukrainian offensive against Novosilka (48km west of Vuhledar) and that Ukrainian forces withdrew to their original positions.[58] Ukrainian and Russian sources reported that Russian forces conducted air and artillery strikes against Vuhledar and noted the presence of the Russian 36th Combined Arms Army in the Vuhledar direction.[59] Russian forces continued routine shelling along the line of contact in western Donetsk Oblast and eastern Zaporizhia Oblast.[60]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued establishing defensive positions east of the Dnipro River and pulling back from the coast of the left (east) bank as of November 15. Geolocated satellite imagery shows that Russian forces are establishing defensive lines just south of the Krasnoznamyanskyi Canal near Bekhtery, about 50km southwest of Kherson City.[61] Such lines indicate that Russian forces see western Kherson Oblast near the Kinburn Peninsula and Spit as operationally significant. Russian forces would likely struggle to hold these defensive lines against a Ukrainian ground offensive due to terrain that favors mechanized warfare, however. Ukraine’s Operational Command South stated that Russian forces finished regrouping on the left bank of the Dnipro River and are establishing defensive positions 15-20km back from the river.[62] Ukrainian Southern Forces Spokesperson Natalia Humenyuk stated that Ukrainian forces are continuing to interdict Russian logistics routes in rear areas of southern Kherson Oblast.[63]
Premature reports of Ukrainian forces capturing territory on the left bank of the Dnipro River provoked backlash in the Russian information space. Reports emerged that Ukrainian forces had reached Nova Kakhovka, Oleshky (about 10km southeast of Kherson City), and the Kinburn Spit, but Ukrainian officials later refuted these claims.[64] The Ukrainian Mayor of Oleshky Yevhen Ryshchuk insinuated that Ukrainian forces liberated Oleshky but later deleted the social media post.[65] Humenyuk stated that the military situation around the Kinburn Spit is developing and called for operational silence.[66] Geolocated footage posted on November 15 shows Russian journalists fleeing from Oleshky, which is consistent with reports that Russian forces are withdrawing from the immediate eastern bank of the Dnipro River.[67] Russian sources refuted claims that Ukrainian forces crossed the Dnipro River and one even claimed that “the enemy is grasping at [Russian] pain points” with such reports.[68]
Russian forces continued routine artillery and airstrikes in Zaporizhia, Mykolaiv, and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts and on the right bank of Kherson Oblast on November 15.[69] Ukrainian officials stated that Russian forces fired on Ochakiv, Mykolaiv Oblast, and Russian sources continued to claim that Ukrainian forces are using positions in Ochakiv to prepare for operations against the Kinburn Spit.[70] Russian forces conducted artillery strikes against Nikopol and Marhanets, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.[71]
Russian logistics routes from Crimea into southern Ukraine are likely highly degraded. A Russian source reported that Russian officials elected to delay repairing the Kerch Strait rail bridge until summer or autumn 2023 as weather conditions are too dangerous to conduct the repairs and noted that one rail line is still usable.[72] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian officials only allow passenger traffic over the Kerch Strait road bridge and transport all other vehicles across the strait via ferry.[73] The severely limited Russian use of the Kerch Strait Bridge for military logistics likely has and will continue to cause long-term issues supplying forces in eastern Kherson Oblast, especially as Ukrainian forces can now interdict supply lines previously considered to be in rear areas.
*Note: ISW will report on activities in Kherson Oblast as part of the Southern Axis in this and subsequent updates. Ukraine’s counteroffensive in right-bank Kherson Oblast has accomplished its stated objectives, so ISW will not present a Southern Ukraine counteroffensive section until Ukrainian forces resume counteroffensives in southern Ukraine.*
*

*
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Russian forces are continuing to replenish their diminishing supplies with Belarusian military equipment. Belarusian group “Society of Railway Personnel of Belarus” claimed that Belarusian forces delivered 98 T-72 tanks, 40 BMP-2 armored vehicles, 20 dismantled BMPs, and 53 Ural trucks from the Belarusian 969th tank reserve base located in Minsk Oblast, Belarus throughout October.[74] Russian forces are also continuing to face challenges with insufficient training personnel responsible for preparing mobilized men for combat and are continuing to rely on Belarusian training facilities. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) reported that elements of the Western Military District (WMD) are training at Belarusian training grounds, and ISW has previously reported that Belarusian forces are accommodating Russian mobilized personnel in Belarus.[75] Social media users also showed footage of Iranian-made bulletproof vests reportedly belonging to Russian mobilized personnel, further indicating the extent of likely Russian supply shortages.[76]
Russian forces are continuing to conduct covert mobilization in Russia and proxy republics despite the end of the declared mobilization period. Russian opposition sources reported that the Republic of Udmurtia and certain cities in Samara and Rostov oblasts continued to issue summonses under the pretext of clarifying information past November 1.[77] Russian forces consistently used similar practices prior to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February in an attempt to lure more men into signing military contracts. A Moscow City military recruitment center also issued second-wave mobilization notices to previously mobilized men who did not deploy during the first wave because they do not have non-core registration specialties.[78] Ukrainian officials also noted that Russian forces are continuing to forcefully mobilize men in occupied Luhansk Oblast.[79]
Russian officials are continuing to make promises to deliver payments to Russian mobilized servicemen amidst growing dissatisfaction with the lack of payments among mobilized and their families. Russian Deputy Defense Minister Tatyana Shevtsova stated on November 14 that the mobilized will receive December payments by December 25, instead of in January.[80] Shevtsova justified this modification as an effort to ensure Russian families receive payments ahead of the New Year celebrations. It is unclear whether Russian officials will actually act upon such promises, given that the Russian MoD announced the start of monthly payments of 195,000 rubles (about $3,175) to mobilized servicemen on November 8.[81]
Low morale and poor discipline continue to plague Russian mobilized personnel as a result of insufficient military equipment and a lack of proper military command. Fighters of a Dagestani assault group published a video complaint noting that they had to purchase equipment with their own money.[82] Residents of Kazan complained that six drunk mobilized men, who supposedly escaped from their unit, trespassed into an apartment building.[83] A Russian outlet reported that 12 Russian mobilized personnel engaged in an armed fight following a drunk verbal altercation in Melitopol.[84] Russian opposition outlets also reported that at least 38 mobilized personnel died before even reaching Ukraine as of November 14.[85] 
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Russian officials continued to minimize the role of proxy officials in occupied territories in favor of Russian officials as of November 15. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on November 15 that Russian officials have almost completely replaced Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) officials in the occupation administration in Russian-occupied Donetsk Oblast.[86] ISW previously reported that Russian officials likely excluded DNR and Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) officials from attempts at integrating LNR and DNR forces into the Russian military.[87] Russian officials will likely continue to minimize the roles of former proxy officials in Luhansk and Donetsk Oblast as they seek to further cement administrative and political control over these illegally annexed territories.
Partisans likely targeted an occupation official in Russian-occupied Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast on November 14. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on November 15 that unspecified actors detonated an IED at the apartment of Melitopol occupation official Dmitry Trukhin, who is currently in an intensive care unit as a result of the explosion.[88] Zaporizhia occupation deputy Vladimir Rogov claimed that Ukrainian affiliated actors conducted the IED attack on November 14.[89] Ukrainian partisans will likely continue to target occupation officials in Russian-occupied territories.
Russian occupation officials continued forced evacuation measures on the left (east) bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast on November 15. Kherson Oblast occupation head Vladimir Saldo stated on November 15 that Russian occupation officials will continue to evacuate people from the 15km zone on the left bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast until all people who have decided to leave have left.[90] Saldo claimed that 115,000 Kherson Oblast residents evacuated from the right bank of the Dnipro River and that most residents are currently residing on the left bank.[91] The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on November 15 that Russian officials are evacuating residents from Kherson Oblast to the Southern Federal District of the Russian Federation, particularly Krasnodar and Stavropol krais.[92] Russian occupation officials will likely continue forced evacuation measures in Kherson Oblast for the foreseeable future.
*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update.*

[1]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0CJCe33EJrD9HjaE9FNd...
[2]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0CJCe33EJrD9HjaE9FNd...
[3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvRyoIAVhtk&ab_channel=%D0%A1%D1%83%D1%8... 
[4]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0CJCe33EJrD9HjaE9FNd...
[5]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid034WNoYsPX22Fd413PLc...
[6] https://isw.pub/UkrWar111022 ; https://isw.pub/UkrWar110722
[7] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/15/russia-launches-new-wave-o...
[8] https://www dot gov.pl/web/dyplomacja/komunikat-w-zwiazku-z-wezwaniem-ambasadora-federacji-rosyjskiej-do-msz
[9] https://www.axios.com/2022/11/15/poland-explosion-ukraine-border-nato
[10] https://****/mod_russia/21781
[11]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592647278648786944[12] https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/15/politics/biden-bali-g20-summit-final-day/...
[13]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592611333609910272[14] https://news.yahoo.com/president-zelenskyy-10-point-peace-094800133.html
[15] https://****/readovkanews/46903 ; https://****/readovkanews/46891
[16] https://****/rybar/41170;
[17] https://****/readovkanews/46862 ; https://****/readovkanews/46859
[18] https://korrespondent dot net/ukraine/4452457-perehovory-ukrayny-y-rossyy-onlain
[19] https://****/rybar/41169
[20] https://****/aleksandr_skif/2484 
[21] https://****/aleksandr_skif/2484 
[22] https://isw.pub/UkrWar110322 ; https://isw.pub/UkrWar110722
[23] https://****/aleksandr_skif/2484 ;
[24] https://****/aleksandr_skif/2484 
[25] https://isw.pub/UkrWar110722
[26] https://www.change.org/p/%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B1%D1%83%D0%B5%D0%BC-%D0%...
[27] https://docs.google.com/document/d/18aP5dHEvsp8TqlxKzSIxMT-JNqDMnpaJhoOp... https ://www.kavkaz-uzel.eu/articles/383025/
[28] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[29] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[30] https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/update-126-iaea-director-g...
[31] https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/11/15/na-zaporizku-aes-zvozyat-rosijskyh-energetykiv/; https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/update-126-iaea-director-g...
[32] https://****/rybar/41167
[33] https://****/Donbas_Operativniy/15735 ; https://****/csources/153800 ...
[34] https://****/mod_russia/21764
[35] https://****/wargonzo/9264 ; https://****/rybar/41167 
[36] https://****/vysokygovorit/9980
[37] https://****/epoddubny/13654
[38]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02ZiaHMNCJYrJxMp8amb...
[39]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0n7qHyMnADmfGiwKDNeg...
[40]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02ZiaHMNCJYrJxMp8amb...
[41] https://****/rybar/41167
[42] https://****/millnr/9729
[43]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0n7qHyMnADmfGiwKDNeg...
[44]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02ZiaHMNCJYrJxMp8amb...
[45] https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1592210678739521536?s=20&t=7WdJt... ; https://****/wargonzo/9260 https://****/cit_backup/1180
[46] https://****/donbassr/30311
[47] https://twitter.com/NovaGorlivka/status/1592386205672701953 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592502749098541061 . https://****/Prikhodko1970/7467
[48]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0n7qHyMnADmfGiwKDNeg... https://twitter.com/Cosmonaut19/status/1592490098461114369; https://t.m... https://****/stranaua/75287
[49]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02ZiaHMNCJYrJxMp8amb...
[50]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02ZiaHMNCJYrJxMp8amb...
[51] https://****/TRO_DPR/9699; https://****/TRO_DPR/9698; https://****/rybar/41165 ; https://****/epoddubny/13655; https://****/wargonzo/9264;
[52] https://****/TRO_DPR/9699; https://****/TRO_DPR/9698
[53] https://****/epoddubny/13655
[54] https://****/TRO_DPR/9716; https://****/TRO_DPR/9714; https://****/TRO_DPR/9707; https://****/ryb... https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0n7qHyMnADmfGiwKDNeg...
[55]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02ZiaHMNCJYrJxMp8amb...
[56] https://****/mod_russia/21764 ; https://****/rian_ru/185500
[57] https://****/pavlokyrylenko_donoda/5535 ; https://****/rybar/41161
[58] https://****/readovkanews/46840
[59] https://****/kommunist/13213; https://****/RtrDonetsk/12076; https://t...
[60]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02ZiaHMNCJYrJxMp8amb...
[61]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592564078005788672[62]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=458822246384617




\; https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3614813-enemy-leaving-equipped-line...
[63] https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3614813-enemy-leaving-equipped-line...
[64] https://****/spravdi/20930; https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/... https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1592264839086624769?s=20&t=i6... https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1592265160181403655?s=20&t=i6... https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100085042093993
[65] https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1592264839086624769; https:/... ua/ru/video/video-novini/osvobozhdenie-levoberezhya-hersonschiny-nachalos-vsu-uzhe-v-oleshkah.html;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592265160181403655[66] https://suspilne.media/317238-operacia-na-kinburni-mae-rozvitok-gumenuk-...
[67] https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1592280347852836864 
https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1592288768068812800 
https://twitter.com/PStyle0ne1/status/1592
[68] https://****/sashakots/37145; https://****/vladlentatarsky/17445; https://****/readovkanews/46851 ; https://****/readovkanews/46839; https://****/stranaua/75304 
[69]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0n7qHyMnADmfGiwKDNeg...
[70]https://www.facebook.com/easternforces/posts/pfbid0aY5iLkQRpbKN9kCZZAyNQ...
[71] https://www.facebook.com/okPivden/videos/458822246384617/?__tn__=%2CO; ... https://****/rybar/41161
[72] https://****/rybar/41168; https://****/periskop_pacific/1598
[73]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02ZiaHMNCJYrJxMp8amb...
[74] https://defence-ua dot com/news/bilorus_u_zhovtni_viddala_rashistam_stilki_tehniki_scho_vistachit_na_pobitu_tankovu_diviziju-9653.html ; https://****/belzhd_live/2001
[75] https://****/mod_russia/21732; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[76] https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1592514734846537729?s=20&t=1V6P7cnt... https://twitter.com/typicaldonetsk/status/1592522809087258625
[77] https://notes.citeam.org/mobilization-nov-13-14; https://****/horizontal_russia/16962; https://****/povestki_udm/427; https://****/samarapovestka; https://****/horizontal_russia/16500
[78] https://****/sotaproject/49537
[79]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0n7qHyMnADmfGiwKDNeg...
[80] https://****/mobilizationnews/3949
[81] https://iz dot ru/1422210/2022-11-08/v-minoborony-soobshchili-o-nachale-dosrochnykh-vyplat-mobilizovanym-s-8-noiabria
[82] https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1592506019724558338
[83] https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1592305306746621952 
[84] https://****/bazabazon/14437; https://****/stranaua/75309 
[85] https://****/horizontal_russia/16964 https://****/mobilizationnews/...
[86] https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/11/15/okupaczijnyj-uryad-na-donechchyni-ocholyly-rosiyany/
[87] https://isw.pub/UkrWar111222
[88] https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/11/15/u-melitopoli-pidirvaly-chergovogo-zradnyka/
[89] https://****/vrogov/6081
[90] https://****/SALDO_VGA/207
[91]https://****/SALDO_VGA/207
[92] https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/11/15/okupanty-deportuyut-meshkancziv-tot-na-pivden-rf/

Tags​Ukraine Project
File Attachments: 



ISW LOGO FINAL ACRONYM NAME_ISW LOGO FINAL ACRONYM NAME CMYK.png



Donetsk Battle Map Draft November 15, 2022.png



DraftUkraineCoTMapNovember15,2022.png



Kharkiv Battle Map Draft November 15, 2022.png



Kherson and Mykolaiv Battle Map Draft November 15, 2022.png



Russian Offensive Operation Assessment, November 15, 2022.pdf

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## Viet

Gaia amir armor vehicle 

Israel delivers military hardware to Ukraine in contrast to previous statements.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591152495078047744


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592896937732509702

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592898226222698497

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> m
> 
> my ancestor was never called Mesopotamian or Sumerian. from where you got the idea my ancestors are from that area,


I made the assumption that you were not a false flagger.
But if You rather be called Ivan, to avoid being blamed for slavery, I am sure we can accomodate that.


----------



## Paul2

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Look at that the G20 United on something for once. I guess even China knows that Russia is a losing bet.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592807068289073155



Good, and bad.

2. Western leaders were crawling on their knees in front of Chinese delegation.

1. On other hand, they did not get much other than giving Xi the pleasure of schadenfreude.

3. Despite Western leaders' desire to hand in unimaginable concessions to China, Xi didn't take any.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592926296312807430

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592925204405444609


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592936496012865537

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592939683407073280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592941398273454080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592941917175963648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592942227596414977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592942362036416512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592942685056544769

NASAMS with 100% success rate

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592943239429906432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592943357516734464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592943533006426112


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592945388583276545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592947099594801154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592947101306322944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592948286398533633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592948288315015169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592948290244718594

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## MeFishToo

I dont know if this has been posted, if so Im sorry. The amount of documentation is just amazing.
Drone view




Gunners view


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Oofff... I guess even Iran likes Israel toys turns out. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592874528337989632

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## Reashot Xigwin

Pigs got shot

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592150438505492480

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## Dalit

LeGenD said:


> Beautifully said, bro.
> 
> Some members think that Russia is on a picnic ride in Ukraine - they are soft. Utterly deluded.
> 
> Russian forces have bombed some towns and cities to dust, and some troops have committed horrible crimes in some regions. Various sectors of Ukraine plunged to darkness in the present due to frightening volleys of standoff munitions that keep coming after a gap.
> 
> I told some members that Russia is attacking Ukraine in force and you guys will see horrible things in time.
> 
> Some are still in denial. These members should be dispatched to Ukraine - then they will understand how cozy and comfy they are in their homes. People never learn.
> 
> Ukranian fighting spirit is tremendous. They have fought back to mitigate loss of property and lives across the country. Ukraine is creating history unlike many countries.



That is exactly what the Americans used to do in Iraq and Afghanistan.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Because they can't make NATO join the war after Biden ruled it out this time. That is why Poland's leadership is backing out.



They have backed out as expected. The simple fact is that US/NATO don't want to confront Russia militarily. The poodles are bound to change statements.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Pigs got shot
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592150438505492480



It is funny. You guys used to call Iraqis and Afghans pigs too once upon a time. I guess the enemy has changed.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592938280865366017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592938283553542147

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## Dalit

RoadAmerica said:


> And Ukraine keeps making gains so what’s the point of firing all this missiles at civilian targets?
> My point stands Russia has shown they don’t have any recourse as of now than to target civilians
> 
> 
> Unscathed, seriously?
> Their army has been destroyed and they’ve shown to be a paper bear.
> Oh and their air force barely got off the ground
> But Russia is winning right?



Don't cry about civilian targeting. You Americans are champions of killing civilians. We Pakistanis know this first hand. What goes around comes around.

Yes unscathed. Russia has won handsome amount of territory it didn't have before. You know what additional territory means? It is worth more than gold. There are peoples in the world today that don't have a piece of land that they can call home. Russia added some more within a year. Not bad if you ask me.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592936496012865537



LOL Accurate observation. Russia was supposed to be out of missiles. Yet Russia keeps firing salvos.


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592938280865366017
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592938283553542147




This is big deal and great experience versus Russian cruise missiles for the US. NASAMS guards Washington DC., so 100% success rate against the latest Russian cruise missiles is a great sign.


----------



## Dalit

Primus said:


> US volunteers for the Ukrainians conducting recon.



The American Jihadists operating in Ukraine. It is all kosher.


----------



## aziqbal

Russia has lost too much in this war 

guts are no longer enough you need to bring the goods

Russia must now move into the 21st century and work on its very poor surveillance, intelligence, jamming, electronic counter measuring, real time monitoring and whole list of other assets of warfare 

terrible terrible loss of men+ materials


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> That is exactly what the Americans used to do in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> 
> They have backed out as expected. The simple fact is that US/NATO don't want to confront Russia militarily. The poodles are bound to change statements.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny. You guys used to call Iraqis and Afghans pigs too once upon a time. I guess the enemy has changed.



Mate this is the Russian. Their entire sthick is that every body but them are inferiors. They call ukrainians with slurs, called central asians savages (this is one of the nice one btw) black & brown people as monkey. 

So it's completely fine morally & ethically to dehumanize Russian. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592871247582404609
The Rusky getting desperate if they start buying desert camo. Also probs better than Russian made one though so it's a plus. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592582487074824193

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Mate this is the Russian. Their entire sthick is that every body but them are inferiors. They call ukrainians with slurs, called central asians savages (this is one of the nice one btw) black & brown people as monkey.
> 
> So it's completely fine morally & ethically to dehumanize Russian.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592871247582404609
> The Rusky getting desperate if they start buying desert camo. Also probs better than Russian made one though so it's a plus.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592582487074824193



Might all be true. I still believe that Russia is the better evil. You haven't tasted US/NATO treachery yet. It will make Russian slurs and racism look like kindergarten stuff. We know these treacherous US/NATO backstabbers inside out. We dealt with them for 2 decades.


----------



## ZeGerman

Dalit said:


> Don't cry about civilian targeting. You Americans are champions of killing civilians. We Pakistanis know this first hand. What goes around comes around.
> 
> Yes unscathed. Russia has won handsome amount of territory it didn't have before. You know what additional territory means? It is worth more than gold. There are peoples in the world today that don't have a piece of land that they can call home. Russia added some more within a year. Not bad if you ask me.


Russia has irreplaceable losses in material and men. High end as well, moskva, VDV, first guard…








Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





And seems like it has grabbing territory it cannot hold. Losing 50% since march. 

“Not bad”. I wish more of our enemies were as daft as you….


Russia militarily and economically imploding against a brother nation (formerly well within russian camp/sphere)…without 1 single dead US soldier. And for military support which is peanuts compared to that wasted on Iraq or afghanistan yearly. A fraction of budget.

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## Reashot Xigwin

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592938280865366017
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592938283553542147


Sweet! We're planning on buying more. God bless the American military industrial complex. Turns out Ike were just being paranoid.



Dalit said:


> Might all be true. I still believe that Russia is the better evil. You haven't tasted US/NATO treachery yet. It will make Russian slurs and racism look like kindergarten stuff. We know these treacherous US/NATO backstabbers inside out. We dealt with them for 2 decades.


Russia rape babies but please tell me how NATO are bad exactly.

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## aziqbal

ZeGerman said:


> Russia militarily and economically imploding against a brother nation (formerly well within russian camp/sphere)…without 1 single dead US soldier. And for military support which is peanuts compared to that wasted on Iraq or afghanistan yearly. A fraction of budget.



Very important point US wanted to hurt Russia has much as possible and they have done it very wisely no men lost and alot of it was paid by Europeans, well played by US 

the only nation who benefit from this is the Chinese 

buying up all the Russian assets for pennies and Western nations have souring inflation due to war cant really compete with China anyway 

China laughing all the way to the bank


----------



## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Russia has irreplaceable losses in material and men. High end as well, moskva, VDV, first guard…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And seems like it has grabbing territory it cannot hold. Losing 50% since march.
> 
> “Not bad”. I wish more of our enemies were as daft as you….
> 
> 
> Russia militarily and economically imploding against a brother nation (formerly well within russian camp/sphere)…without 1 single dead US soldier. And for military support which is peanuts compared to that wasted on Iraq or afghanistan yearly. A fraction of budget.



You are too stupid to realise what Russia achieved here. Russia has gained massive advantage by absorbing geostrategic Ukrainian land. You are too high on your Western fed propaganda. What do you guys do all day long in this topic? Post tweets and social media crap that is fed to you by biases sources LOL No wonder you start believing in fairytales.

We have been through your hateful treachery. Pakistan faced 2 decades of relentless Western hate media campaign. You aren't fooling us.

LOL at without 1 single dead US soldier. Coffins were flying out of Afghanistan with dead US/NATO soldier. You are not fooling anybody.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Being racist against Russian is bad... 

-said a prick. 

Meanwhile Russian

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592197875098095617

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Sweet! We're planning on buying more. God bless the American military industrial complex. Turns out Ike were just being paranoid.
> 
> 
> Russia rape babies but please tell me how NATO are bad exactly.



NATO collects body parts of brown "savages" as trophies. The US bombs brown nations for fun.







This is your freedom loving US/NATO. Don't expect us to shed tears for brutes. This is your pain and yours alone.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> NATO collects body parts of brown "savages" as trophies. The US bombs brown nations for fun.
> 
> View attachment 897108



& what do you think the Russian are doing right now?

Rape babies man, raping babies. Also smashing people's skull with sledgehammer. Their own man btw. 

What I like about this picture is that it's pretty much Teletubbies compared to what the Russian are doing.

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> & what do you think the Russian are doing right now?
> 
> Rape babies man, raping babies. Also smashing people's skull with sledgehammer. Their own man btw.
> 
> What I like about this picture is that it's pretty much Teletubbies compared to what the Russian are doing.



Sure. Sure. Your suffering and pain is soooo much worse than ours. I get it. No one gave a hoot dude. Take your crocodile tears somewhere else.

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## Reashot Xigwin

And rape don't forget about the rape. So, so much rape









Russian troops gang-rape 12-year-old girl in eastern Ukraine - intercept


A group of Russian soldiers have brutally raped a 12-year-old girl in the temporarily occupied territory of Luhansk region. — Ukrinform.




www.ukrinform.net

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## Abid123

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia does not care if a war is legal or not so it is not an interesting point.
> Considering that most of NATO has promised support in the case of an attack, it is unlikely that Russia tries. Even without NATO. Russia appears to lack the logistics to execute an amphibious invasion. If Russia would be fighting a legal war, it could legally attack any state which, like Sweden, choose not to be neutral.
> A final point is that International Law does not change just because part of it is inconvenient to Sweden.


Nobody will support you directly in a war against Russia. Dont be a fool. Why would any country put its citizens at risk from nuclear strike? Because of Sweden? Lol... You are at your own your goverment knows this. 

Let’s not act like the Swedish military has ever directly challenged the Russian military in any meaningful way. Russia would wipe the floor with Sweden without breaking a sweat.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Abid123 said:


> Nobody will support you directly in a war against Russia. Dont be a fool. Why would any country put its citizens at risk from nuclear strike? Because of Sweden? Lol... You are at your own your goverment knows this.
> 
> Let’s not act like the Swedish military has ever directly challenged the Russian military in any meaningful way. Russia would wipe the floor with Sweden without breaking a sweat.

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## Abid123

LeGenD said:


> Some members think that Russia is on a picnic ride in Ukraine - they are soft. Utterly deluded.


They are in fact on a picnic ride in Ukraine when compared to what the US did to Iraq.



Reashot Xigwin said:


>


Yes. I am serious. Stop trolling and use arguments. If you are just for trolling dont quote me again.


----------



## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> And rape don't forget about the rape. So, so much rape
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops gang-rape 12-year-old girl in eastern Ukraine - intercept
> 
> 
> A group of Russian soldiers have brutally raped a 12-year-old girl in the temporarily occupied territory of Luhansk region. — Ukrinform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ukrinform.net



Blah blah. No one cares. Ask Iraqis and Afghans who got raped for years by US soldiers.

You guys are champions of crocodile tears.

Even during the Ukraine war you guys couldn't hold back racism. To your media the blue eyed and blonde haired Ukrainians shouldn't be suffering, but only brown people should. Disgusting.









‘People with blue eyes and blond hair are dying’: Media’s racist war coverage


Although the Black Lives Matter (BLM) campaign has been around since 2013, many only started crying about what was happening to Black people after the murder of George Floyd in 2020.




www.peoplesworld.org

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## Reashot Xigwin

Abid123 said:


> They are in fact on a picnic ride in Ukraine when compared to what the US did to Iraq.
> 
> 
> Yes. I am serious. Stop trolling and use arguments. If you are just for trolling dont quote me again.






LOL is losing kherson didn't happen on your alternative timeline.

Or the war in ukraine in general.

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## Abid123

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL is losing kherson didn't happen on your alternative timeline.
> 
> Or the war in ukraine in general.


Never mentioned anything about losing Kherson.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> Blah blah. No one cares. Ask Iraqis and Afghans who got raped for years by US soldiers.
> 
> You guys are champions of crocodile tears.
> 
> Even during the Ukraine war you guys couldn't hold back racism. To you blue eyes and blonde haired Ukrainians shouldn't be suffering, but only brown people should.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘People with blue eyes and blond hair are dying’: Media’s racist war coverage
> 
> 
> Although the Black Lives Matter (BLM) campaign has been around since 2013, many only started crying about what was happening to Black people after the murder of George Floyd in 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.peoplesworld.org



Like I said teletubbies. The West are still morally superior to the pigs. 


Redirect Notice

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL is losing kherson didn't happen on your alternative timeline.
> 
> Or the war in ukraine in general.



@waz Why isn't this guy displaying his flags? The previous moderators on this forum used to demand all members to display their flags.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Like I said teletubbies. The West are still morally superior to the pigs.
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice



You are ordinary killers. You have been killing, plundering and looting your entire life. How does it feel now to get a taste of your own medicine?

The irony is, you have to beg for attention on a Pakistani defence forum. Why are you so hellbent on convincing us that you are the good guys?

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## Abid123

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Like I said teletubbies. The West are still morally superior to the pigs.
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice


Nice racism calling Russians as "pigs". Reported

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## Reashot Xigwin

Abid123 said:


> Never mentioned anything about losing Kherson.



You should read up on it more. It's funny stuffs. Lots of drowning Russians.



Abid123 said:


> Nice racism calling Russians as "pigs". Reported


It's okay to be racists against the Russians you know.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Corax

So after the Ukies tried to false flag a russian attack on Poland and invoke article 5 to destroy the Russians and launch WW3, the Americans chickened out?  This was a great opportunity for the Americans to use this as an excuse to launch an all out attack on the Russians in Ukraine, but they didn't, I wonder why?

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## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> @waz Why isn't this guy displaying his flags? The previous moderators on this forum used to demand all members to display their flags.
> 
> 
> 
> You are ordinary killers. You have been killing, plundering and looting your entire life. How does it feel now to get a taste of your own medicine?
> 
> The irony is, you have to beg for attention on a Pakistani defence forum. Why are you so hellbent on convincing us that you are the good guys?


The other guys rape babies. So yeah we're the good guys like unironically


----------



## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The other guys rape babies. So yeah we're the good guys like unironically



You are worse. You rape babies and kill citizens of what you term third world countries. I would rate Russia higher.

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## Abid123

Reashot Xigwin said:


> It's okay to be racists against the Russians you know.


@waz

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## Dalit

Corax said:


> So after the Ukies tried to false flag a russian attack on Poland and invoke article 5 to destroy the Russians and launch WW3, the Americans chickened out?  This was a great opportunity for the Americans to use this as an excuse to launch an all out attack on the Russians in Ukraine, but they didn't, I wonder why?



They have changed the headline. Ukraine fired the missile, but Russia is responsible.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> You are worse. You rape babies and kill citizens of what you term third world countries. I would rate Russia higher.





Abid123 said:


> @waz




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592214077983821824

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592214077983821824



An Uncle Tom fighting alongside white blue eyed Ukrainians LOL Nice one.

This is fake, isn't it?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> An Uncle Tom fighting alongside white blue eyed Ukrainians LOL Nice one.
> 
> This is fake, isn't it?



LOL I just reported you. Turns out you just a hypocrite ain't cha? 😁

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## reflecthofgeismar

Dalit said:


> NATO collects body parts of brown "savages" as trophies. The US bombs brown nations for fun.
> 
> View attachment 897108
> 
> 
> This is your freedom loving US/NATO. Don't expect us to shed tears for brutes. This is your pain and yours alone.



That are several cases, very few %tage and very barbaric, + consequences followed.

I could bet you would liking it to sit in a prison in Netherland, you even get your religious food.

Israeli prisons = inmates got fat, can read, can work.

Arabic prisons torture, rap (gay-culture, I mean Bacha Bazi is ok too, undercover gays?) etc.

Why you don't live then in Pakistan?

I guess, big mouth in libturd western world is easier to maintain.

As usual, some ordinary truths (1-2 western crimes) but big hypocritical.

Savages





Asia Bibi blasphemy case - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Savages





Murders of Leila Hussein and Rand Abdel-Qader - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Savages





Bacha bazi - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Thanks god, this world is shaped by western values.
Surely, many hypocritical thing but as a whole MUCH better than these "values".
Allows you to talk shit the whole day, you couldn't when the situation was reverse.
Maybe we should orientate on Pakistan, at least what to do with cheeky minorites...

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592898787575357440


reflecthofgeismar said:


> That are several cases, very few %tage and very barbaric, + consequences followed.
> 
> I could bet you would liking it to sit in a prison in Netherland, you even get your religious food.
> 
> Israeli prisons = inmates got fat, can read, can work.
> 
> Arabic prisons torture, rap (gay-culture, I mean Bacha Bazi is ok too, undercover gays?) etc.
> 
> Why you don't live then in Pakistan?
> 
> I guess, big mouth in libturd western world is easier to maintain.
> 
> As usual, some ordinary truths (1-2 western crimes) but big hypocritical.
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asia Bibi blasphemy case - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murders of Leila Hussein and Rand Abdel-Qader - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bacha bazi - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks god, this world is shaped by western values.
> Surely, many hypocritical thing but as a whole MUCH better than these "values".
> Allows you to talk shit the whole day, you couldn't when the situation was reverse.
> Maybe we should orientate on Pakistan, at least what to do with cheeky minorites...



People forget that human rights and free speech is a western invention. 

You know the only thing stopping him from getting wagnered in the skull.

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## Abid123

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You should read up on it more. It's funny stuffs. Lots of drowning Russians.


Since you are here only to troll I am going to do the same. Thank you for the suggestion but I am not interested. I am would rather look at the pics of dead US soldiers from Afghanistan or Iraq. Gives me more pleasure and happiness for some reason.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593001918175252480
Huge strike on Russian airbase in Crimea

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## K_Bin_W

Corax said:


> So after the Ukies tried to false flag a russian attack on Poland and invoke article 5 to destroy the Russians and launch WW3, the Americans chickened out?  This was a great opportunity for the Americans to use this as an excuse to launch an all out attack on the Russians in Ukraine, but they didn't, I wonder why?


Hmmmm you wonder why! Me too... LMAO..


----------



## Abid123

reflecthofgeismar said:


> That are several cases, very few %tage and very barbaric, + consequences followed.
> 
> I could bet you would liking it to sit in a prison in Netherland, you even get your religious food.
> 
> Israeli prisons = inmates got fat, can read, can work.
> 
> Arabic prisons torture, rap (gay-culture, I mean Bacha Bazi is ok too, undercover gays?) etc.
> 
> Why you don't live then in Pakistan?
> 
> I guess, big mouth in libturd western world is easier to maintain.
> 
> As usual, some ordinary truths (1-2 western crimes) but big hypocritical.
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asia Bibi blasphemy case - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murders of Leila Hussein and Rand Abdel-Qader - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bacha bazi - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks god, this world is shaped by western values.
> Surely, many hypocritical thing but as a whole MUCH better than these "values".
> Allows you to talk shit the whole day, you couldn't when the situation was reverse.
> Maybe we should orientate on Pakistan, at least what to do with cheeky minorites...


Savages








Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Savages








German war crimes - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Savages








The Holocaust - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Savages





Mahmudiyah rape and killings - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Savages








Haditha massacre - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Do you want me go on or not?

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## reflecthofgeismar

Abid123 said:


> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German war crimes - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Holocaust - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmudiyah rape and killings - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haditha massacre - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want me go on or not?



Look, you take and present now war crimes & classical lone cases. 
I showed you "cultural" and "religion" based crimes which are completely ok in these nice places, without even remorse, realistic investigation from a side. And even you have more civilized people there who want to investigate and punish the perpetator, they will have it very hard because it could unleash an uprising of the ordinary people because they are believing in rightenous these barbaric acts.

You don't get it...

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## F-22Raptor

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Mark Milley says Russia has failed "every single" objective in its war against Ukraine.

“Russians have failed every single time. They’ve lost strategically, they’ve lost operationally and, I repeat, they lost tactically. What they’ve tried to do, they failed at,” Milley said Wednesday at a press conference with Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin after a meeting of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group. “The strategic reframing of their objectives, of their illegal invasion, have all failed, every single one of them.”

Milley listed Russia’s failure to “overrun all of Ukraine” at the start of the war as well as after their refocus on the Donbas region and the capture of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.

“Across the entire frontline trace of some 900 or so kilometers, the Ukrainians have achieved success after success after success, and the Russians have failed every single time,” said Milley.









Top US general: Russia has lost strategically, operationally and tactically


Polish President Andrzej Duda said that the missile that hit his country on Tuesday was "probably an accident" from Ukraine's air defenses. Follow live updates here.




www.cnn.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593013813573738496


----------



## dbc

Corax said:


> So after the Ukies tried to false flag a russian attack on Poland and invoke article 5 to destroy the Russians and launch WW3, the Americans chickened out?  This was a great opportunity for the Americans to use this as an excuse to launch an all out attack on the Russians in Ukraine, but they didn't, I wonder why?


yes the Americans chickened out. Right now, Sri Lanka could beat Russia in a conventional war. May be that's not a bad plan, conquer Russia put it on Airbnb and solve the Sri Lanka debt problem.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593022515215208448

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## Corax

dbc said:


> yes the Americans chickened out. Right now, Sri Lanka could beat Russia in a conventional war. May be that's not a bad plan, conquer Russia put it on Airbnb and solve the Sri Lanka debt problem.



You've invaded and overtaken countries like Iraq on made up pretexts, but didn't on this occasion. Why not? Why not go and destroy the Russians in Ukraine and put an end to this pointless war? Instead over 200,000 Russians and Ukrainians killed and wounded. But hey, who cares, let the slavs slaughter each other, they're just as bad as each other, and makes for good spectator sport seeing "civilised" cultures play out natural selection, rather than dark skinned people in third world countries no one cares about.

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## The SC




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## dbc

Corax said:


> You've invaded and overtaken countries like Iraq on made up pretexts, but didn't on this occasion. Why not? Why not go and destroy the Russians in Ukraine and put an end to this pointless war? Instead over 200,000 Russians and Ukrainians killed and wounded. But hey, who cares, let the slavs slaughter each other, they're just as bad as each other, and makes for good spectator sport seeing "civilised" cultures play out natural selection, rather than dark skinned people in third world countries no one cares about.


well I already said we is chickin ..😨

but you know what we're damned if we do and damned if we don't 
If it were up to me I'd want us to go back to pre-world war isolationism. But military conflict is the grindstone that keeps the military sharp. It's a conundrum, the fear is if the US intervenes in Ukraine the Russian will lose so fast so hard that the entire Russian state will descend into anarchy. No one wants to see an out of control nation with 5,000 nukes. I guess we've learnt our lesson from Saddam and Gaddafi - Putin may be unhinged, but the alternative may be far worse.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I made the assumption that you were not a false flagger.
> But if You rather be called Ivan, to avoid being blamed for slavery, I am sure we can accomodate that.


but again the ancestor of the people with my flag was never called Mesopotamian or Sumerian.
wonder how you assumed I'm false flagger , did i accidentally used flag of a country in Mesopotamia?





darker green. in short Babylon, Assyria and Sumeria and some Semitic city states ,


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> This is going to be fun.
> 
> Even British source confirmed Ukrainian force is in Kinburn, if Russia don't get it right, they might have their entire left flank rolled by the Ukrainian, that would not be good,


Ukraine army trying two flank attack, from the north towards Nova, the south towards Haroska. That’s confirmed. Momentum is on Ukraine side they will use it to annihilate the retreating 20k to 30k Russian troops at Kherson. Ukraine army probably carrying out the operations thru the winter they getting winter clothings and everything else for the winter war from the Nato.


----------



## khansaheeb

Seems like NATO don't have appetite for war yet.

No-fly zone over Ukraine not on the table – Germany









No-fly zone over Ukraine not on the table – Germany


The move could spark a direct conflict between Russia and NATO, a government spokesperson said Germany and its NATO partners have no plans to try and close off Ukrainian airspace in the wake of a deadly missile blast in a village near the Poland-Ukraine border, Berlin said on Wednesday. Speaking...




thepressunited.com

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593001918175252480
> Huge strike on Russian airbase in Crimea



There are confirmed reports of Explosions at Russian military base in Dzhankoi in northern Crimea , that is outside Himars range.

But the clip posted above is an old one.

~


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Abid123 said:


> Nobody will support you directly in a war against Russia. Dont be a fool. Why would any country put its citizens at risk from nuclear strike? Because of Sweden? Lol... You are at your own your goverment knows this.
> 
> Let’s not act like the Swedish military has ever directly challenged the Russian military in any meaningful way. Russia would wipe the floor with Sweden without breaking a sweat.



Russia is hardly in a position to attack Sweden lacking amphibious capability.
Even when Trump was attacking NATO, by threatening to remove support, he never attacked Sweden and the US confirm ed that they would send troops.

Since Sweden has not fought a war for over 200 years, you have to go back in history. There you find the battle of Narva 1700 where the Swedish Army beat Russia even though they outnumbered the Swedish Army with ridiculous numbers.

Notable losses is Poltava when the Swedish Army, out of supply and with deficient gun powder attacked a Russian Army 3 times its number.

Finland was lost when the commander of the fortress Sveaborg surrendered without a fight. That could have ended very different.

There is no clear superiority on the Russian part.

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL I just reported you. Turns out you just a hypocrite ain't cha? 😁



Nice to see you go apeshit.



reflecthofgeismar said:


> That are several cases, very few %tage and very barbaric, + consequences followed.
> 
> I could bet you would liking it to sit in a prison in Netherland, you even get your religious food.
> 
> Israeli prisons = inmates got fat, can read, can work.
> 
> Arabic prisons torture, rap (gay-culture, I mean Bacha Bazi is ok too, undercover gays?) etc.
> 
> Why you don't live then in Pakistan?
> 
> I guess, big mouth in libturd western world is easier to maintain.
> 
> As usual, some ordinary truths (1-2 western crimes) but big hypocritical.
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asia Bibi blasphemy case - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murders of Leila Hussein and Rand Abdel-Qader - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bacha bazi - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks god, this world is shaped by western values.
> Surely, many hypocritical thing but as a whole MUCH better than these "values".
> Allows you to talk shit the whole day, you couldn't when the situation was reverse.
> Maybe we should orientate on Pakistan, at least what to do with cheeky minorites...



You deserve what is coming at you. 100%. Stop crying and begging for sympathy. You won't get any. The amount of suffering and hate that you have spread is known to every person. From Iraq to Afghanistan.

LOL is that all you got German fool? LOL You cannot win an argument on Ukraine war and you resort to Pakistan and my place of residence? LOL Dude, I was born here and I will stay here. This is my country. So will my children stay here and also their children. Do something about it if you can. All you can do is fume with anger and act like a little racist that you are.

LOL Ohhhh he is going to concentrate on Pakistan now the little Hitler fanatic. We are so scared now. Hold on a minute, what did you do in the last two decades in Afghanistan? Wasn't that project aimed at Pakistan? Haven't you killed enough Pakistanis through killer drone strikes? Haven't you burdened Pakistan with Afghan refugees? Haven't you accused Pakistan whilst spilling innocent blood? Yet you left red faced. We know you inside out. We won't fall for your pathetic lies.

Stupid moron. Bacha bazi is practiced in Afghanistan. He didn't even read his own link that he posted LOL

Bacha bāzī (Persian: بچه بازی, lit. "boy play"; from بچه bacheh, "boy", and بازی bazi "play, game") is a slang term used in Afghanistan for a custom in Afghanistan involving child sexual abuse by older men of young adolescent males or boys, called dancing boys, often involving sexual slavery and child prostitution.

LOL which world is shaped by Western values? The Western world or the entire world? You are so stupid and intoxicated, yet you live in a pond where you think that Western values rule the entire universe. They don't stupid villager. You are what we call a typical tokkie in Dutch language. All you know about the world is what happens in your little white village.

This is your country Germany where Muslim women get harrassed and stabbed to death by a racist German in the court of law. Refugees are scolded.









Germany: park renamed in memory of Egyptian woman killed by racist


The Mayor of Dresden, Dirk Hilbert, has announced that a major park in the German city is being renamed in memory of an Egyptian woman killed by a racist in 2009. Marwa El-Sherbini was three months pr...




www.middleeastmonitor.com













Report uncovers Germany's structural racism against Muslims


A state-appointed panel has found that Muslims in Berlin are at a disadvantage across the state's institutions. It has made a number of recommendations, including doing away with Berlin's "neutrality law."



www.infomigrants.net





The same Ukrainians that you defend are actually hated by your racist countrymen.









Suspected neo-Nazi's arson attack burns down refugee shelter in Germany


All 14 Ukrainian refugees unscathed after shelter's destruction as authorities suspect arson after swastika graffiti recently found on the entrance of the facility.




www.trtworld.com

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## Paul2

dbc said:


> No one wants to see an out of control nation with 5,000 nukes. I guess we've learnt our lesson from Saddam and Gaddafi - Putin may be unhinged, but the alternative may be far worse.



All you should've learned is that you didn't go hard enough on Saddam, and Gaddafi.

US spent 20 years in both Japan, and Germany with boots on the ground to keep them in line for long enough to suppress their barbaric tendencies

If US did the same in Iraq, they would've been jailing tens of thousands of Baathists, and kept the rest pacified with an iron fist to this day.



dbc said:


> It's a conundrum, the fear is if the US intervenes in Ukraine the Russian will lose so fast so hard that the entire Russian state will descend into anarchy.



If Washington doesn't want an anarchy in what will be left from Russia, then they need American tanks on the Red Square.

That's simple

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## Reashot Xigwin

It's official now Russia has lost. No wonder biden doesn't want WW3 when Russia already been militarily defeated. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592972973765726208

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> It's official now Russia has lost. No wonder biden doesn't want WW3 when Russia already been militarily defeated.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592972973765726208



Biden backtracked. The whole world knows it. Papa USA doesn't have the courage to militarily confront Russia. Even when Russia has annexed Ukrainian land and continues to strike Ukraine with missiles. You aren't fooling anybody. The US/NATO response is weak and pathetic. You are hiding behind lies. All your pathetic excuses are just face saving tactics.



Paul2 said:


> All you should've learned is that you didn't go hard enough on Saddam, and Gaddafi.
> 
> US spent 20 years in both Japan, and Germany with boots on the ground to keep them in line for long enough to suppress their barbaric tendencies
> 
> If US did the same in Iraq, they would've been jailing tens of thousands of Baathists, and kept the rest pacified with an iron fist to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> I Washington doesn't want an anarchy in what will be left from Russia, then they need American tanks on the Red Square.
> 
> That's simple



There you go. Listen to your ally here LOL Put boots on the ground in Russia. Although a lot of desperation in these few lines.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> Biden backtracked. The whole world knows it. Papa USA doesn't have the courage to militarily confront Russia. Even when Russia has annexed Ukrainian land and continues to strike Ukraine with missiles. You aren't fooling anybody. The US/NATO response is weak and pathetic. You are hiding behind liesm


LOL why would biden need to militarily confront the rusky. With just using loose change Biden found in his sofa he had the Ukrainian humiliated and beaten the Russian. 

Don't mess with daddy lockmart

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515843336539721728

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## thetutle

MeFishToo said:


> I dont know if this has been posted, if so Im sorry. The amount of documentation is just amazing.
> Drone view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunners view


That's just insane, Even the gunner made it out alive after that. Thats some awesome armour in a humvee.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Oofff... I guess even Iran likes Israel toys turns out.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592874528337989632


The problem for Iran with this is that this Israeli equipment is bugged and compromised, probably transmits a homing signal straight back to Tel Aviv. Not sure if Iran realises this,


----------



## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL why would biden need to militarily confront the rusky. With just using loose change Biden found in his sofa he had the Ukrainian humiliated and beaten the Russian.
> 
> Don't mess with daddy lockmart
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515843336539721728



Dude, Russia has exposed you guys to the bone. Your hypocrisy knows no bound. Even when Russia has pounced on Ukraine for almost a year you continue to fabricate excuses. You have no real committment towards Ukraine. You have no backbone to confront Russia militarily. You are just playing hide and seek. Letting Ukrainians do your dirty work. It is the Ukrainians that are getting killed whilst you are sharing tweets on PDF. Where is your mighty US/NATO always ready to invade poor destinations? Looks to me that US/NATO don't have the appetite to confront a real adversary face to face.

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## alimobin memon

Dalit said:


> Biden backtracked. The whole world knows it. Papa USA doesn't have the courage to militarily confront Russia. Even when Russia has annexed Ukrainian land and continues to strike Ukraine with missiles. You aren't fooling anybody. The US/NATO response is weak and pathetic. You are hiding behind lies. All your pathetic excuses are just face saving tactics.
> 
> 
> 
> There you go. Listen to your ally here LOL Put boots on the ground in Russia. Although a lot of desperation in these few lines.


Its media illusion. I have read many books regarding war history. Also, documentaries in Netflix like rise of ottoman empire. Where according to the western historians "Giovanni Giustiniani" did the best in delaying and Turkish multiple attempts of breaching Constantinople yet in end Ottomans won.

These kinds of retreats are actually good the Russians realized they will have loses and retreated. Russians if lost war will be tactical defeat not strategically. They will have still some benefits, many Ukrainians supporting Russians left Ukraine and went to Russia or other countries and they wont be coming back to totaled Ukraine with infrastructure damaged.

People in modern world relying on tweets is a shameful way of celebrating victory. Those(Ukrainians) who don't respect the enemy and their ways of war and make fun will eventually lose. If Russia loses this war after 5 years and 10 years it will try again but this will end one day for Ukrainians.



Dalit said:


> Dude, Russia has exposed you guys to the bone. Your hypocrisy knows no bound. Even when Russia has pounced on Ukraine for almost a year you continue to fabricate excuses. You have no real committment towards Ukraine. You have no backbone to confront Russia militarily. You are just playing hide and seek. Letting Ukrainians do your dirty work for you. It is the Ukrainians that are getting killed whilst you are sharing tweets on PDF. Where is your mighty US/NATO always ready to invade poor destinations? Looks to me that US/NATO don't have the appetite of confronting a real adversary face to face.


Clear proof they only bully poor countries. I think countries like Pakistan are doing right. If you see closely Pakistan militarily is getting stronger the weapons and alternate solutions to shortcomings in previous wars relying on USA. One day Pakistan will have adequate amount of economy and military till then it pretends to be Yes Sir. I am fine with that.

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## Dalit

alimobin memon said:


> Its media illusion. I have read many books regarding war history. Also, documentaries in Netflix like rise of ottoman empire. Where according to the western historians "Giovanni Giustiniani" did the best in delaying and Turkish multiple attempts of breaching Constantinople yet in end Ottomans won.
> 
> These kinds of retreats are actually good the Russians realized they will have loses and retreated. Russians if lost war will be tactical defeat not strategically. They will have still some benefits, many Ukrainians supporting Russians left Ukraine and went to Russia or other countries and they wont be coming back to totaled Ukraine with infrastructure damaged.
> 
> People in modern world relying on tweets is a shameful way of celebrating victory. Those(Ukrainians) who don't respect the enemy and their ways of war and make fun will eventually lose. If Russia loses this war after 5 years and 10 years it will try again but this will end one day for Ukrainians.
> 
> 
> Clear proof they only bully poor countries.



Let them cry rivers. We will confront their blatant lies. It is funny how all these Pakistan haters have gathered on PDF to wage a Twitter campaign against Russia. Not so long ago these members were hating and cussing Pakistan all day long during the Afghan war. They have found a new hobby. Let's hate Russia and China.

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## alimobin memon

Dalit said:


> Let them cry rivers. We will confront their blatant lies. It is funny how all these Pakistan haters have gathered on PDF to wage a Twitter campaign against Russia. Not so long ago these members were hating and cussing Pakistan all day long during the Afghan war. They have found a new hobby. Let's hate Russia and China.


Touche'

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> It's official now Russia has lost. No wonder biden doesn't want WW3 when Russia already been militarily defeated.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592972973765726208



Official like this?


----------



## thetutle

Dalit said:


> Blah blah. No one cares. Ask Iraqis and Afghans who got raped for years by US soldiers.
> 
> You guys are champions of crocodile tears.
> 
> Even during the Ukraine war you guys couldn't hold back racism. To your media the blue eyed and blonde haired Ukrainians shouldn't be suffering, but only brown people should. Disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘People with blue eyes and blond hair are dying’: Media’s racist war coverage
> 
> 
> Although the Black Lives Matter (BLM) campaign has been around since 2013, many only started crying about what was happening to Black people after the murder of George Floyd in 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.peoplesworld.org


Yeah pretty much accurate. US and the west can pretty much do anything it wants with brown people and get away with it. Fact. How many Americans or westerners are in jail for war crimes last 20 years? Zero or close to zero.

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## Reashot Xigwin

A daily reminder that hating Russian is correct actually. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593042478235807744

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## Dalit

thetutle said:


> Yeah pretty much accurate. US and the west can pretty much do anything it wants with brown people and get away with it. Fact. How many Americans or westerners are in jail for war crimes last 20 years? Zero or close to zero.



That is why I don't buy the crocodile tears from the US and the West. Good you reiterated my point.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> A daily reminder that hating Russian is correct actually.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593042478235807744



11th commandment: Thou shall hate Russia and China

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## thetutle

reflecthofgeismar said:


> I could bet you would liking it to sit in a prison in Netherland, you even get your religious food.
> 
> Israeli prisons = inmates got fat, can read, can work.
> 
> Arabic prisons torture, rap (gay-culture, I mean Bacha Bazi is ok too, undercover gays?) etc.


Have you been to a concentration camp in Germany/Poland? I have, the toilet facilities I saw when I was there are better than many in the third world today. It does not not mean it was a nice place to be. By many accounts, there was enormous hardship there.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> Dude, Russia has exposed you guys to the bone. Your hypocrisy knows no bound. Even when Russia has pounced on Ukraine for almost a year you continue to fabricate excuses. You have no real committment towards Ukraine. You have no backbone to confront Russia militarily. You are just playing hide and seek. Letting Ukrainians do your dirty work. It is the Ukrainians that are getting killed whilst you are sharing tweets on PDF. Where is your mighty US/NATO always ready to invade poor destinations? Looks to me that US/NATO don't have the appetite to confront a real adversary face to face.



But I thought Russia is already at war with the west/NATO. That's why the Russian keep losing to Ukraine. Isn't that what you people been saying? 







Dalit said:


> Official like this?
> 
> View attachment 897591











Ukraine crisis: Russian news agency deletes victory editorial


Piece which prematurely claimed "Ukraine has returned to Russia" is still visible to internet users.



www.google.com

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## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> But I thought Russia is already at war with the west/NATO. That's why the Russian keep losing to Ukraine. Isn't that what you people been saying?
> View attachment 897592
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine crisis: Russian news agency deletes victory editorial
> 
> 
> Piece which prematurely claimed "Ukraine has returned to Russia" is still visible to internet users.
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com



What goes around comes around. Karma.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> That is why I don't buy the crocodile tears from the US and the West. Good you reiterated my point.
> 
> 
> 
> 11th commandment: Thou shall hate Russia and China


Maybe they should not hate people that are different to them in the 1st place... You know just saying. There's a reason why all their neighbors hate them in the 1st place. Even Vietnam hate China so much they willing to discuss alliance with the US.

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## LeGenD

Abid123 said:


> They are in fact on a picnic ride in Ukraine when compared to what the US did to Iraq.


Russian conduct of war in Ukraine is brutal just like in other countries including in Syria. Do you want me to post pictures and videos? Difference is that Ukranians are able to fight back and make it impossible for Russians to carpet bomb Ukranian cities like in Syria. This was conveyed to you before.

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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia is hardly in a position to attack Sweden lacking amphibious capability.
> Even when Trump was attacking NATO, by threatening to remove support, he never attacked Sweden and the US confirm ed that they would send troops.
> 
> Since Sweden has not fought a war for over 200 years, you have to go back in history. There you find the battle of Narva 1700 where the Swedish Army beat Russia even though they outnumbered the Swedish Army with ridiculous numbers.
> 
> Notable losses is Poltava when the Swedish Army, out of supply and with deficient gun powder attacked a Russian Army 3 times its number.
> 
> Finland was lost when the commander of the fortress Sveaborg surrendered without a fight. That could have ended very different.
> 
> There is no clear superiority on the Russian part.


How and historically, Russia never stood much of chance against Sweden. Losing Finland was tragic. Such a shame


----------



## Dalit

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Maybe they should not hate people that are different to them in the 1st place... You know just saying. There's a reason why all their neighbors hate them in the 1st place. Even Vietnam hate China so much they willing to discuss alliance with the US.



Vietnam is a country that was napalmed by the Americans. Vietnamese women were mass raped by US soldiers. I don't think any neighbor of China has any love for the US or the West for that matter. Everyone is milking the opportunity. That is all. If you think that Chinese neighbor's are going anti-China you are mistaken. You people are a gullible bunch. You think that you can divide and conquer. That is not the case. I would also milk an ideal situation.



LeGenD said:


> Russian conduct of war in Ukraine is brutal just like in other countries including in Syria. Do you want me to post pictures and videos? Difference is that Ukranians are able to fight back and make it impossible for Russians to carpet bomb Ukranian cities like in Syria. This was conveyed to you before.



You should know how the Western powers have colonized and waged wars in foreign nations. I guess you already know that. Skulls are kept in museum's till this day of people that opposed subjugation from Western powers. Countries like Iraq and Afghanistan ravaged and bombed to the stone age. Innocent citizens killed for fun by sharpshooter as trophies. Their limbs collected as reminders.


----------



## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> US spent 20 years in both Japan, and Germany with boots on the ground to keep them in line for long enough to suppress their barbaric tendencies
> 
> If US did the same in Iraq, they would've been jailing tens of thousands of Baathists, and kept the rest pacified with an iron fist to this day.


It just demonstrates the weakness of German and Japanese society at the time. A society that stood for ultranationalism and fascism. 

Had the west stayed in Iraq and Afghanistan for 500 years they could not change the strong islamic undercurrent of the society. The islamic civilisation simply cant be tamed by the west. On the contrary, in the long run, chances are it will probably conquer or assimilate the west. Many Westerners realise this and thats why they are so rabidly anti-islamic.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Dalit said:


> Vietnam is a country that was napalmed by the Americans. Vietnamese women were mass raped by US soldiers. I don't think any neighbor of China has any love for the US or the West for that matter. Everyone is milking the opportunity. That is all. If you think that Chinese neighbor's are going anti-China you are mistaken. You people are a gullible bunch. You think that you can divide and conquer. That is not the case. I would also milk an ideal situation.


And that should tell you something about China's treatment of their perceived lesser country. 

Also this apply Russia. Why do you think every country east of Berlin all wanted to join NATO?

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## thetutle

Dalit said:


> That is why I don't buy the crocodile tears from the US and the West. Good you reiterated my point.


Crocodile tears or not, They have to oppose Russia. They cant just let the expand.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593167169646342144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593166179832504321

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## LeGenD

Dalit said:


> You should know how the Western powers have colonized and waged wars in foreign nations. I guess you already know that. Skulls are kept in museum's till this day of people that opposed subjugation from Western powers.


Yes, I know. 
Yes, that museum is in France. Horrific.

Russians are not clean either. They also colonize and wage wars in Foreign nations.

Western powers (and Soviets) banded together to split Ottoman Empire. Then Western powers and Soviets attempted to undermine each other in times of the Cold War and ruined multiple countries in the process. War in Afghanistan gave rise to jihadi mindset and militancy in particular and its cascading effects are being felt to this day. I hope that Pakistan has learned its lesson. 

The pan-Islamic bloc has its own problems and history of terrible miscalculations. Some Islamic countries produced extremely bad leaders and suffered due to their egotistical politics which opened the gates to foreign exploitation.

This is a lengthy debate on the whole.

WE should get back to topic in this thread, therefore.

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## Reashot Xigwin

More toys coming

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592998590146056192
At this point it's just sad. Heck if solovyov just phoning it in I'm not going to make fun of it. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592473457849430016


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Another Russian quality equipment. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593018469691236352


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Dalit said:


> Nice to see you go apeshit.
> 
> 
> 
> You deserve what is coming at you. 100%. Stop crying and begging for sympathy. You won't get any. The amount of suffering and hate that you have spread is known to every person. From Iraq to Afghanistan.
> 
> LOL is that all you got German fool? LOL You cannot win an argument on Ukraine war and you resort to Pakistan and my place of residence? LOL Dude, I was born here and I will stay here. This is my country. So will my children stay here and also their children. Do something about it if you can. All you can do is fume with anger and act like a little racist that you are.
> 
> LOL Ohhhh he is going to concentrate on Pakistan now the little Hitler fanatic. We are so scared now. Hold on a minute, what did you do in the last two decades in Afghanistan? Wasn't that project aimed at Pakistan? Haven't you killed enough Pakistanis through killer drone strikes? Haven't you burdened Pakistan with Afghan refugees? Haven't you accused Pakistan whilst spilling innocent blood? Yet you left red faced. We know you inside out. We won't fall for your pathetic lies.
> 
> Stupid moron. Bacha bazi is practiced in Afghanistan. He didn't even read his own link that he posted LOL
> 
> Bacha bāzī (Persian: بچه بازی, lit. "boy play"; from بچه bacheh, "boy", and بازی bazi "play, game") is a slang term used in Afghanistan for a custom in Afghanistan involving child sexual abuse by older men of young adolescent males or boys, called dancing boys, often involving sexual slavery and child prostitution.
> 
> LOL which world is shaped by Western values? The Western world or the entire world? You are so stupid and intoxicated, yet you live in a pond where you think that Western values rule the entire universe. They don't stupid villager. You are what we call a typical tokkie in Dutch language. All you know about the world is what happens in your little white village.
> 
> This is your country Germany where Muslim women get harrassed and stabbed to death by a racist German in the court of law. Refugees are scolded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany: park renamed in memory of Egyptian woman killed by racist
> 
> 
> The Mayor of Dresden, Dirk Hilbert, has announced that a major park in the German city is being renamed in memory of an Egyptian woman killed by a racist in 2009. Marwa El-Sherbini was three months pr...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.middleeastmonitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report uncovers Germany's structural racism against Muslims
> 
> 
> A state-appointed panel has found that Muslims in Berlin are at a disadvantage across the state's institutions. It has made a number of recommendations, including doing away with Berlin's "neutrality law."
> 
> 
> 
> www.infomigrants.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same Ukrainians that you defend are actually hated by your racist countrymen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suspected neo-Nazi's arson attack burns down refugee shelter in Germany
> 
> 
> All 14 Ukrainian refugees unscathed after shelter's destruction as authorities suspect arson after swastika graffiti recently found on the entrance of the facility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trtworld.com



The Egyptian woman was killed by a Russian who has German passport.
Lone case, tragic but shit happens.
Otherwise.
5-10% Muslims but 30-50% fill ranks in jail.
Nearly in every European country.
Reminds me of Blacks in the US.
13.5% of the population but comitting 50% of all murder, 80-90% murdered Blacks were killed by fellow Blacks.
Muh Black lies matter.
How many Germans got stabbed by imported brown people?
How many got raped, grouped raped?
Don't play the victim cart, hypocrite.
I know that Bacha Bazi is an "Afghan" practice.
You support them, right?
The real racists are big mouth, cheeky minorities who are playing the cheeky breeky card as long as the Whites show tolerance.
Hating but living in Western world.



thetutle said:


> Have you been to a concentration camp in Germany/Poland? I have, the toilet facilities I saw when I was there are better than many in the third world today. It does not not mean it was a nice place to be. By many accounts, there was enormous hardship there.


Yeah I was.
And until they got gassed they had it often better than common inmates in non-western styled prisons.
In the end you get gassed fast, not tortured, anally raped or head chopped.
More civilized Barbarism.

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## reflecthofgeismar

thetutle said:


> It just demonstrates the weakness of German and Japanese society at the time. A society that stood for ultranationalism and fascism.
> 
> Had the west stayed in Iraq and Afghanistan for 500 years they could not change the strong islamic undercurrent of the society. The islamic civilisation simply cant be tamed by the west. On the contrary, in the long run, chances are it will probably conquer or assimilate the west. Many Westerners realise this and thats why they are so rabidly anti-islamic.



Hm, Americans told Germans 1945 that every attack on a GI will be answered with 100 male Germans aged 16-60 killed.
Intelligent people who got bombed in 3 years much harder than Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia together, understand this.
The problem is, (good for these people) that Murricans don't wage war as understood in their own world (IF they would have the ability to do war) and they aren't anymore as they were in WW2, Korea and even Vietnam.

Showing much restraint.
Imagine, killing 100 males aged 16-60 for every attack.


----------



## Dalit

reflecthofgeismar said:


> The Egyptian woman was killed by a Russian who has German passport.
> Lone case, tragic but shit happens.
> Otherwise.
> 5-10% Muslims but 30-50% fill ranks in jail.
> Nearly in every European country.
> Reminds me of Blacks in the US.
> 13.5% of the population but comitting 50% of all murder, 80-90% murdered Blacks were killed by fellow Blacks.
> Muh Black lies matter.
> How many Germans got stabbed by imported brown people?
> How many got raped, grouped raped?
> Don't play the victim cart, hypocrite.
> I know that Bacha Bazi is an "Afghan" practice.
> You support them, right?
> The real racists are big mouth, cheeky minorities who are playing the cheeky breeky card as long as the Whites show tolerance.
> Hating but living in Western world.
> 
> 
> Yeah I was.
> And until they got gassed they had it often better than common inmates in non-western styled prisons.
> In the end you get gassed fast, not tortured, anally raped or head chopped.
> More civilized Barbarism.



No matter what you say. Russia is winning. They have gained territory and are in the driving seat. The US/NATO are just talking. End of discussion.



LeGenD said:


> Yes, I know.
> Yes, that museum is in France. Horrific.
> 
> Russians are not clean either. They also colonize and wage wars in Foreign nations.
> 
> Western powers (and Soviets) banded together to split Ottoman Empire. Then Western powers and Soviets attempted to undermine each other in times of the Cold War and ruined multiple countries in the process. War in Afghanistan gave rise to jihadi mindset and militancy in particular and its cascading effects are being felt to this day. I hope that Pakistan has learned its lesson.
> 
> The pan-Islamic bloc has its own problems and history of terrible miscalculations. Some Islamic countries produced extremely bad leaders and suffered due to their egotistical politics which opened the gates to foreign exploitation.
> 
> This is a lengthy debate on the whole.
> 
> WE should get back to topic in this thread, therefore.



It is not only in France. It is across many European countries. Google up Britain. They have collected skulls from all over their colonies.

Absolutely agree. I have never claimed that Russia is clean. Every country has dirt and crimes. For the European and American members in this topic to claim that Russia is the only evil barbarian out there is obviously misleading. There is no harm in showing them a mirror. The point that I am trying to make here is that all wars and bloodshed should be condemned across the board. Every life lost is one too many. One life isn't worth more than the other. Unfortunately, according to Americans and Europeans their lives are more meaningful than others. People with blue eyes and blonde hair don't deserve war. Brown barbarians in deserts deserve war.

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> No matter what you say. Russia is winning. They have gained territory and are in the driving seat. The US/NATO are just talking. End of discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not only in France. It is across many European countries.
> 
> Absolutely agree. I have never claimed that Russia is clean. Every country has dirt and crimes. For the European and American members in this topic to claim that Russia is the only evil barbarian out there is obviously misleading. There is no harm in showing them a mirror. The point that I am trying to make here is that all wars and bloodshed should be condemned across the board. One life isn't worth more than the other. Unfortunately, according to Americans and Europeans their lives are more meaningful than others.


The Russian weaklings just ran away from Kherson I would not say they won. Stalin would never allow such a humiliating retreat.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> The Russian weaklings just ran away from Kherson I would not say they won. I had participated they would fight to the deaths.



That is what you think. The Russians obviously have plans that they won't share with you.

Russia still holds significant amount of Ukrainian territory that they have annexed.

When are you guys going to help Ukraine on the battlefield? You are sitting here typing stuff on your keyboard. That don't impress me much.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593153478435565570

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593153595352174592

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> That is what you think. The Russians obviously have plans that they won't share with you.
> 
> Russia still holds significant amount of Ukrainian territory that they have annexed.


What plan? Running faster than Ukraine artillery? Ok Putin’s invasion army holds 15 percent. That becomes less and less.

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## Vergennes



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## reflecthofgeismar

Viet said:


> The Russian weaklings just ran away from Kherson I would not say they won. Stalin would never allow such a humiliating retreat.


I wouldn't call the ordinary Russian a weakling.
Was always tough as nail.

Bad leadership (politically)
Corruption
Wrong doctrine
Give ordinary Russians (hard life circumstances but higher IQ than most people who live under such conditions) and western military leadership and equipment and Ukraine would be conquered in 8-16 weeks.
Good for the Western block is, that it isn't the case and the Russians aren't playing their cards good.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The average Russian prison experience. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593030424980520961


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593100170790834179

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593160579090612224

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593060281394950144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592839572060536832


----------



## thetutle

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Hm, Americans told Germans 1945 that every attack on a GI will be answered with 100 male Germans aged 16-60 killed.
> Intelligent people who got bombed in 3 years much harder than Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia together, understand this.
> The problem is, (good for these people) that Murricans don't wage war as understood in their own world (IF they would have the ability to do war) and they aren't anymore as they were in WW2, Korea and even Vietnam.
> 
> Showing much restraint.
> Imagine, killing 100 males aged 16-60 for every attack.


Well, the Allied invasion and occupation of Germany was horrific. But sooner or later the German population saw that western liberalism was a good way to live. Except some dye in the wool nazis like gobbles who killed his own kids to spare them the "horrors" of western liberalism. 

The average afghan it appears shares gobbles' view of western liberalism, and would much rather die than "enjoy" western liberalism, and this is after 20 years of occupation and will be the same after 50 years of occupation. And I think what is funny is the inability of the western mind to full understand this. If westerners knew full the passion and belief that these people have, they would be even more scared of islam. 

So I stand by my view that German and Japan were weak societies with questionable ideologies and easily ideologically dominated by the occupiers. And they're both occupied still. Germany is full of German flags and those rainbow gay flags flying alongside it. Lets just say in our lifetime we will not se a gay pride event in Kabul.

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## reflecthofgeismar

thetutle said:


> Well, the Allied invasion and occupation of Germany was horrific. But sooner or later the German population saw that western liberalism was a good way to live. Except some dye in the wool nazis like gobbles who killed his own kids to spare them the "horrors" of western liberalism.
> 
> The average afghan it appears shares gobbles' view of western liberalism, and would much rather die than "enjoy" western liberalism, and this is after 20 years of occupation and will be the same after 50 years of occupation. And I think what is funny is the inability of the western mind to full understand this. If westerners knew full the passion and belief that these people have, they would be even more scared of islam.
> 
> So I stand by my view that German and Japan were weak societies with questionable ideologies and easily ideologically dominated by the occupiers. And they're both occupied still. Germany is full of German flags and those rainbow gay flags flying alongside it. Lets just say in our lifetime we will not se a gay pride event in Kabul.



The Problem with Japanese was, few decades ago, they were medieval society with hiqh iq and did modernize in a extremely way.
So they had to be break and then be fed with alternative modernity. So many, especially Jews, don't whine about the brutal way they behaved. The Germans were known to be brutal when necessary but a culture nation and this angered so many with the Holocaust.
I see it a bit cynical, Germans are very precise and nearly every (greater) nation did some unimanginable, Germans are just more precisly and methodical when killing unwanted.
Not this chaotic, "uncivilzed" behaviour in doing bad things (mostly).

Germans and Murricans are close to each other (culturally), many Murricans with German roots who weren't completely "Americanized" (especially after WW1) and felt bad about killing their original ancestors, went to the Pacific (1/3 of US Army, de facto whole USMC).
You often had "friendly" encounters during the war between German and WESTERN allied troops, in fighting pauses, where they talked to each other, shared their living story, smoked a cigarette together. Surely, crimes happened too, as it is normal in war. But as a whole it was relative "civilized".
Eastern Front was completely different.

Back to the Afghans.
They lived in a medieval world to begin with, paired with their interpretation of Islam.
Now somebody will show me pictures from Kabul when Soviets had large influence and/or were directly there.
Sure thing but MINORITY of Afghans were living this modern way.
MOST were (and surely) still are living islamic valued medieval rural live.
And when you come to them, under hypocritical circumstances, and try with "wishi washi" methods to influence them and representing a larger fist of the corrupt brother (only the ANA spec force were REALLY fighting, 10% of the army, taking 90% of the fights^^) you CAN'T win against them.
Now I think it was wrong from the beginning.
Support Northern Alliance, smash Taliban and have nothing on the ground except some SpecOps who support AFGHANS killing Afghans.
This would have been the way when you fighting there.
And when they succeed, good for the US, if not, go back home, Afghans lost to Afghans.
You can't win with hands tied behind your back (Roe) vs people who don't share the rules in a minimal manner.
There is only the solution of a harder hand but when you can't do it because you MOSTLY don't want to against your own RoE, then don't even try it.
Do it like Genghis Khan and you have silence.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593206098475245570

Reactions: Like Like:
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## One_Nation

reflecthofgeismar said:


> The Problem with Japanese was, few decades ago, they were medieval society with hiqh iq and did modernize in a extremely way.
> So they had to be break and then be fed with alternative modernity. So many, especially Jews, don't whine about the brutal way they behaved. The Germans were known to be brutal when necessary but a culture nation and this angered so many with the Holocaust.
> I see it a bit cynical, Germans are very precise and nearly every (greater) nation did some unimanginable, Germans are just more precisly and methodical when killing unwanted.
> Not this chaotic, "uncivilzed" behaviour in doing bad things (mostly).
> 
> Germans and Murricans are close to each other (culturally), many Murricans with German roots who weren't completely "Americanized" (especially after WW1) and felt bad about killing their original ancestors, went to the Pacific (1/3 of US Army, de facto whole USMC).
> You often had "friendly" encounters during the war between German and WESTERN allied troops, in fighting pauses, where they talked to each other, shared their living story, smoked a cigarette together. Surely, crimes happened too, as it is normal in war. But as a whole it was relative "civilized".
> Eastern Front was completely different.
> 
> Back to the Afghans.
> They lived in a medieval world to begin with, paired with their interpretation of Islam.
> Now somebody will show me pictures from Kabul when Soviets had large influence and/or were directly there.
> Sure thing but MINORITY of Afghans were living this modern way.
> MOST were (and surely) still are living islamic valued medieval rural live.
> And when you come to them, under hypocritical circumstances, and try with "wishi washi" methods to influence them and representing a larger fist of the corrupt brother (only the ANA spec force were REALLY fighting, 10% of the army, taking 90% of the fights^^) you CAN'T win against them.
> Now I think it was wrong from the beginning.
> Support Northern Alliance, smash Taliban and have nothing on the ground except some SpecOps who support AFGHANS killing Afghans.
> This would have been the way when you fighting there.
> And when they succeed, good for the US, if not, go back home, Afghans lost to Afghans.
> You can't win with hands tied behind your back (Roe) vs people who don't share the rules in a minimal manner.
> There is only the solution of a harder hand but when you can't do it because you MOSTLY don't want to against your own RoE, then don't even try it.
> *Do it like Genghis Khan and you have silence.*



You know you are representing a failed ideology when you need Genghis Khan's methods to implement it.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593178698290974720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592660565440495617
US be like "get your trash a$$ missile the fck outta here"





USA in this ho!

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## reflecthofgeismar

One_Nation said:


> You know you are representing a failed ideology when you need Genghis Khan's methods to implement it.



Or the opposite side should not force somebody to use these kinds of methods. 
Maybe they are the ones with the failed ideology?
At least, when you "do the Genghis Khan" and they aren't around anymore.
Because militarly, they wouldn't be able do something against it.
Only sit it out.

It's always the point of view.


----------



## Primus

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> US be like "get your trash a$$ missile the fck outta here"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA in this ho!


Cringe


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593131073508364289

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

Russia officially held responsible for shoot down of Flight MH17 by Dutch court




Russia officially held responsible for shoot down of Flight MH17 by Dutch court

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593166179832504321


this one have another first half that show an explosion on the ground, it seems it was two missile one intercepted and one hit target .


----------



## Shawnee

*Pictures of the first UCAV in the world in action in Iran-Iraq war in 1980s:*

Iranian drone hits the target. Whole movie is in Farsi. I am adding frames of the movie:


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593235819049160706

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593258863414939648

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## A.P. Richelieu

Abid123 said:


> Since you are here only to troll I am going to do the same. Thank you for the suggestion but I am not interested. I am would rather look at the pics of dead US soldiers from Afghanistan or Iraq. Gives me more pleasure and happiness for some reason.


That is the tribal reaction, where you do not care about right or wrong.
You only care about those that belong to your tribe and to hell with those that belong to other tribes.
The West has passed on that behaviour in its laws and ideals.

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> It just demonstrates the weakness of German and Japanese society at the time. A society that stood for ultranationalism and fascism.
> 
> Had the west stayed in Iraq and Afghanistan for 500 years they could not change the strong islamic undercurrent of the society. The islamic civilisation simply cant be tamed by the west. On the contrary, in the long run, chances are it will probably conquer or assimilate the west. Many Westerners realise this and thats why they are so rabidly anti-islamic.



What? The atheist Baath being Islamic? Since when? They were textbook Marxists, except they took few more extra doctrine positions from Mein Kampf.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593149005978292224

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## zartosht

Viet wasnt enough, now we got 2 bananas spamming more catholic then the pope western propaganda. Lol……………. “Untill there are donkeys, there will always be donkey riders”








In other shahed news

More ukie hard to replace soviet transformers destroyed

shaheds also took out a zionist diesel tanker in the gulf of oman and forced the zionists to agree to lebanese demands on the gas fields

This little drone is really punching above its geopolitical weight. I cannot wait to see Iranian fatehs and arash im action

Be afraid nato… be very afraid

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593277101003755521

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593274852277747712

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## A.P. Richelieu

Abid123 said:


> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German war crimes - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Holocaust - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmudiyah rape and killings - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Savages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haditha massacre - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want me go on or not?



No one claims that there are no criminals in the West.
According to Western Values, criminals should be prosecuted.
According to tribal thinking, anyone that attacks the opposing tribe should be glorified, regardless if they commit a crime or not.

Shooting down an airliner is not a war crime, if there are reasons to believe that it is a threat. And neither stupidity, misunderstandings nor technical errors is criminal.
Damages should be paid, which was done.

Germany and Germans were prosecuted after WWII.

In both the remaining cases, there were court martials. One case that resulted in long time behind bars, and another where punishment were light.

If the US did not care about war crimes, noone would be prosecuted nor convicted.

Name one Muslim which has been court martial and convicted by a predominantly Muslim country for a war crime against a non-Muslim.
Name one Pakistani, which has been convicted by Pakistan for a war crime against India.
Once You can show this, you have a case.

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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> Yeah pretty much accurate. US and the west can pretty much do anything it wants with brown people and get away with it. Fact. How many Americans or westerners are in jail for war crimes last 20 years? Zero or close to zero.


How many Talibans have been even prosecuted for war crimes?
You will find that its is only the West that actually considers prosecuting their own for war crimes.

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## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> What? The atheist Baath being Islamic? Since when? They were textbook Marxists, except they took few more extra doctrine positions from Mein Kampf.


No, I'm not talking about them. they were very much in the minority in Iraq. Saddam and his people were a minority.


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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> How many Talibans have been even prosecuted for war crimes?
> You will find that its is only the West that actually considers prosecuting their own for war crimes.


They certainly "consider" prosecuting them, But they then don't prosecute them. And the president pardons any that have been prosecuted. Its good to see that you are comparing the US justice system with that of the Taliban. And you know, I think if the Taliban kill some civilians there is probably more of a chance they will be prosecuted than US Army. How many NATO soldiers were rotated in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last 20 years? How many war crimes prosecutors? How many convictions?

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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is the tribal reaction, where you do not care about right or wrong.
> You only care about those that belong to your tribe and to hell with those that belong to other tribes.
> The West has passed on that behaviour in its laws and ideals.


It's you the tribal.

Iraq and Lybia wars were Western pure evil.

But you're a tribal brainwashed cheerleader of Western crimes.

You're the tribal, you think the American backstabbing of Saddam Hussein can't happen to Europe because you're white.

We'll see. 

West European states slaves are tribal and racists.

But American rulers are not, they dont give a sht if you are white or blue like an Avatar character.

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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> They certainly "consider" prosecuting them, But they then don't prosecute them. And the president pardons any that have been prosecuted. Its good to see that you are comparing the US justice system with that of the Taliban. And you know, I think if the Taliban kill some civilians there is probably more of a chance they will be prosecuted than US Army. How many NATO soldiers were rotated in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last 20 years? How many war crimes prosecutors? How many convictions?


There was already links in this thread during the last two days about US soldiers being prosecuted and convicted to decades in prison.
What you ”think” is of no importance.
Show a single Taliban that has been prosecuted for a war crime committed against a US soldier.
There are plenty of examples where Talibans dressed in civilians clothes attacked US soldiers. This is perfidy, one of the worst war crimes, so there should be plenty of Talibans to prosecute.

Name ONE!


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## K_Bin_W



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## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> No one claims that there are no criminals in the West.
> According to Western Values, criminals should be prosecuted.
> According to tribal thinking, anyone that attacks the opposing tribe should be glorified, regardless if the commit a crime or not.
> 
> Shooting down an airliner is not a war crime, if there are reasons to believe that it is a threat. And neither stupidity, misunderstandings nor technical errors is criminal.
> Damages should be paid, which was done.
> 
> Germany and Germans were prosecuted after WWII.
> 
> In both the remaining cases, there were court martials. One case that resulted in long time behind bars, and another where punishment were light.
> 
> If the US did not care about war crimes, noone would be prosecuted nor convicted.
> 
> Name one Muslim which has been court martial and convicted by a predominantly Muslim country for a war crime against a non-Muslim.
> Name one Pakistani, which has been convicted hy Pakistan for a war crime against India.
> Once You can show this, you have a case.


What a serie of hallucinations ideas.

Western powerful people are never punished.

Western slaves can be punished.

A American soldier means nothing for USA elite.

But you'll never see a Goldman Sachs banker punished.

Talibans soldiers means something for Taliban regime, due to that they are not punished even if they do some naughty thing.


The best of prove of how rotten from the core is the West are 911 USA terrorist attacks and another of same kind happened in Europe last 20 years.

There is no such thing as Western ideals, you're raving, Western ideals are money, bribes and suck USA elite cocks meanwhile betraying own common people interests.

And true Christian religion and ideals have been substituted by leftist social-sexual engineering, the same with true leftists workers ideals. That's Western current ideals: a lie of smart twisted people deceiving dumbfucks fools and using them against their own people.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Orcs on Orcs violence. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593189020426805248


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593283873110212610

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593100170790834179
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593160579090612224


That just says Ukraine uses very effective ammo on russian invasion army. The most thing, no waste, ammo are expensive.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593320338040946689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593318013675212800

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593320338040946689
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593318013675212800



That indicated extreme inexperience of an artillery officer. Those 300mm MLRSes far outrange even GMLRS, and their salvo is enough to cover a target even at max range, since the they only shoot cluster.

It seems they had to creep within 155mm range to try to score a hit.


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## The SC

Ukraine, thanks to Hungary, lost 18 billion dollars in financing from the European Union..

The US, with the Republicans controlling the House of Representatives, it is possible to disrupt an armament package.. Aid will reach 37 billion dollars or reduce to a very large extent..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593215803255816192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593310242212913152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593294729235644416

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## aviator_fan

Red tape in a democracy takes a back seat when important national priorities are at stake: LNG terminal in 200 days....


LNG site eases German gas rationing fears​Completion of facility in 200 days a crucial part of ending Russia dependence​
GUY CHAZAN — BERLIN
DAVID SHEPPARD — LONDON
CAMILLA HODGSON — SHARM EL-SHEIKH


Germany has finished construction of its first import terminal for liquefied natural gas, a milestone in its efforts to end its energy dependency on Russia.
The completion of the terminal, at Wilhelmshaven on the North Sea, will ease fears Europe’s largest economy might face gas rationing this winter.
Germany has been striving to build new import infrastructure for gas since Moscow’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, which led to a sharp decline in Russian gas supplies.
Earlier this year, it chartered five floating storage and regasification units (FSRUs), one of which will be installed at Wilhelmshaven and the other at nearby Brunsbüttel by the end of the year. The first LNG tankers are due to dock at the two sites early next year.
German economy minister Robert Habeck pointed out that the Wilhelm-shaven terminal had taken just 200 days to build — a major achievement for a country where construction projects can drag on for years.
“Germany can be fast and advance infrastructure projects with great determination when the federal and regional governments, together with the project participants, all pull together,” he said.
Henning Gloystein, a consultant at Eurasia Group, said Wilhelmshaven’s completion marked a “significant” step in Europe’s attempts to “wean itself off Russian gas this winter, something that was deemed impossible at the start of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine”.
Earlier this year, Germany was haunted by fears of a looming winter gas shortage, especially after Russia drastically reduced flows through the Nord Stream 1 pipeline across the Baltic Sea.
Those fears have eased in recent weeks. Germany’s gas storage is 100 per cent full, partly because unusually mild temperatures meant private households consumed less gas. Industrial use of gas also dropped 27 per cent in October, while German gas imports from the Netherlands, Belgium and Norway have increased slightly over the past few weeks and France started to deliver gas to Germany in mid-October.
That has had a big impact on gas prices in Europe, which are about one-third the level in August. But prices remain almost three times the longterm average and have started to climb again this week, with Berlin forecast to see freezing temperatures by Friday.
The German government has had to spend tens of billions of euros to backstop gas purchases from alternative sources and to nationalise Uniper, the country’s biggest buyer of Russian gas. Uniper will operate the port infrastructure in Wilhelmshaven and has already started work on a connection between the FSRU and shore-based installations.
The economy ministry said three further FSRUs would be deployed in the coming months — one in Stade on the Elbe river near Hamburg and two in Lubmin on the Baltic Sea — and an additional one in Wilhelmshaven in the fourth quarter of 2023.

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## aviator_fan

Economic strength about as important as military strength. Putin stepped into a NATO trap and has single handedly put Russia back at least 20 years industrialization.

I have said before that over 2 years, their planes won't have spare parts and oil equipment won't be serviced as most of the tech they use is imported.

The automotive industry collapse within a year is faster than I thought what it would be. As a paper tiger/counterbalance to NATO, Putin would have been smarter to continue to do what he was doing for the last 20 years. Sow discord, use other means to impact his adversaries (cyber attacks, manipulation) if economic strength was not there. That would have given the impression of strength.

Instead , even if Russia maintains the 15% of territory, it will do so so with its rich and smartest out of the country, its oil no longer relevant in a more renewable economy, and expended 50% of its fighting ability.... no clothes.

The height of irrationality





__





Putin calls for price controls as Russian car sales crash to record low






www.msn.com





Putin calls for price controls as Russian car sales crash to record low​ 
MOSCOW (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin urged the Russian government on Wednesday to control car prices, as one industry head said Western sanctions could send annual sales crashing to below 1 million for the first time since records began. 

Auto sales have fallen over 60% so far this year, and may end up being less than a quarter of what they were a decade ago, according to Maxim Sokolov, head of Russia's top carmaker Avtovaz.

Some of this year's drop is due to the pullout of foreign carmakers such as Renault and Mercedes-Benz and a collapse in demand due to a mass mobilisation for the Ukraine conflict.

But much is also due to falling living standards and higher prices, as well as the difficulty of securing foreign-made components after the imposition of a barrage of sanctions by Western countries in response to Russia's military campaign in Ukraine; the latest Lada model has had to be produced without airbags or anti-lock brakes.

Speaking with top officials, Putin acknowledged that the situation was "not easy", and asked the government to look at making cars more affordable, suggesting that prices were being raised unfairly.

"I would like to draw your attention to the need for constant control over pricing, so that under these difficulties, of which we are all aware, including logistics, no one abuses or unreasonably raises the prices of road vehicles," he said.



Daylamite Warrior said:


> These are lame excuses. However which way you try to spin this, Iranian drones done a number on Patriot missiles. What was protecting US bases when those Iranian BMs smashed Ain Al Assad or where they misconfigured as well?!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, an investigation! Russia is running scared!


It was a secondary infantry base. I can guarantee you there was no Patriot battery there. If Iran wanted to make a point, it should have attacked Al Udaid or Aldhafra. Then we would have known for sure.



RoadAmerica said:


> What’s coming wise one?
> Can I screen shot this 😂


I remember prophecies like this when Russians first withdrew from Kiev. Equivalent of Baghdad Bob: every time there is territory lost, some futurustic announcement like this shows up. In the meantime RUssia auto industry is a fraction of what it was 8 months ago because it can't make cars

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## aviator_fan

RoadAmerica said:


> What’s coming wise one?
> Can I screen shot this 😂


I remember prophecies like this when Russians first withdrew from Kiev. Equivalent of Baghdad Bob: every time there is territory lost, some futurustic announcement like this shows up. In the meantime RUssia auto industry is a fraction of what it was 8 months ago because it can't make cars


Primus said:


> I like how this thread goes back and forth between talking about the war and then talking about Islam and Muslim nations. 🙃


Don't forget slavery : Putin freed slaves and everybody else was involved in slavery. I don't know why we are not mature enough to realize that there is no moral right in any war. Morality is determined by who wins. The thread is not named 'Is NATO supremely humane and Putin is not' for these distractions to show up and delay getting to the actual useful content of the forum



Dalit said:


> Vietnam is a country that was napalmed by the Americans. Vietnamese women were mass raped by US soldiers. I don't think any neighbor of China has any love for the US or the West for that matter. Everyone is milking the opportunity. That is all. If you think that Chinese neighbor's are going anti-China you are mistaken. You people are a gullible bunch. You think that you can divide and conquer. That is not the case. I would also milk an ideal situation.
> 
> 
> 
> You should know how the Western powers have colonized and waged wars in foreign nations. I guess you already know that. Skulls are kept in museum's till this day of people that opposed subjugation from Western powers. Countries like Iraq and Afghanistan ravaged and bombed to the stone age. Innocent citizens killed for fun by sharpshooter as trophies. Their limbs collected as reminders.


Why do you think west is morally superior? It is one of the worst things that happen in war and many occupiers do this . But guess what, Iraqis did just this in Kuwait too. So based on that standard every muslim is a criminal too?

No moral high ground (either for Russia or NATO): what matters is how they are fighting and who is like to win. Not whining about moral superiority of one vs. the other.

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> No matter what you say. Russia is winning. They have gained territory and are in the driving seat. The US/NATO are just talking. End of discussion.



No matter? If Russia was winning why did they go through so many commanders, and used every option (criminals, mercenaries). 15% of territory gained is not the intention behind this 'specail operation'... Russia is winning and its industry has started to collapse (see my earlier post on automative sales collapsing by 60% because of western equipment needed). And this is a start.

I am not rooting for Russia's collapse. The fake military arrogance did this to them



BHAN85 said:


> It's you the tribal.
> 
> Iraq and Lybia wars were Western pure evil.
> 
> But you're a tribal brainwashed cheerleader of Western crimes.
> 
> You're the tribal, you think the American backstabbing of Saddam Hussein can't happen to Europe because you're white.
> 
> We'll see.
> 
> West European states slaves are tribal and racists.
> 
> But American rulers are not, they dont give a sht if you are white or blue like an Avatar character.


Backstabbing occurred because Saddam was a below average IQ leader: he didn't have nuclear weapons, didn't realize that 9/11 changed the situation as it gave neo-cons the pretext and excuse to mobilize support to ATTEMPT to change the middle east.

Even when war was about to begin in 2003, he did not open up to inspectors and kept digging a hole. One thing if he had nukes, worthless if not.

So backtabbing of europe is harder because the leaders are on average smarter than Saddam to not set themselves for a self inflicted idiotic trap out of an exagerrated sense of importance

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## reflecthofgeismar

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Orcs on Orcs violence.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593189020426805248


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593381222633316352
Russians starting to realize the situation their in

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593354900309680128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592896349431009280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593293169130618886

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593320886681083910

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593257706349293569

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## Beny Karachun

zartosht said:


> shaheds also took out a zionist diesel tanker in the gulf of oman and forced the zionists to agree to lebanese demands on the gas fields
> 
> This little drone is really punching above its geopolitical weight. I cannot wait to see Iranian fatehs and arash im action
> 
> Be afraid nato… be very afraid


Took out lol:
"We are in communication with the vessel and there are no reports of injuries or pollution. All crew are safe and accounted for,” the company said. “There is some minor damage to the vessel’s hull but no spillage of cargo or water ingress.”

Netanyahu said he won't respect the gas deal signed by Lapid, and Netanyahu is going to be the next prime minister, god willing.

Shahed is just a copy of the Harpy drone, nothing unheard of, we have been making these since the 90s. Ours are also SEAD capable. 

Iran is pathetic.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593381222633316352
> Russians starting to realize the situation their in


I speak Russian, those subtitles are completely made up lol, they're talking about something else

I guess the "RealSubtitles?" Account name confirms it lmao


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## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> Took out lol:
> "We are in communication with the vessel and there are no reports of injuries or pollution. All crew are safe and accounted for,” the company said. “There is some minor damage to the vessel’s hull but no spillage of cargo or water ingress.”
> 
> Netanyahu said he won't respect the gas deal signed by Lapid, and Netanyahu is going to be the next prime minister, god willing.
> 
> Shahed is just a copy of the Harpy drone, nothing unheard of, we have been making these since the 90s. Ours are also SEAD capable.
> 
> Iran is pathetic.
> 
> 
> I speak Russian, those subtitles are completely made up lol, they're talking about something else
> 
> I guess the "RealSubtitles?" Account name confirms it lmao



Cannot wait for Ben Gavir to put you Benny sissies in your place.


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## Beny Karachun

Shawnee said:


> Cannot wait for Ben Gavir to put you Benny sissies in your place.


I voted for Ben Gvir lol I can't wait either


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593313350699683846

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593213852250173442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592855685209149441


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592854721563619328

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## Shawnee

Beny Karachun said:


> I voted for Ben Gvir lol I can't wait either



Lol
We finally agreed on something yay


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593336058271375360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593327620229398529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593337942138912769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593329969777737728

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## Viet

Preparing the d day.

Interesting, Ukraine has amphibious capability. Speculation arising, Ukraine army can try to frontal assault Russia army on the eastern bank of Knipr. Would be the most daring attack ever. If successful Ukraine could stop or reduce Russia terror bombings.






The BTR-3DA APC is equipped with aiming and thermal imaging devices for night fire.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593381222633316352
> Russians starting to realize the situation their in


I find it improbable that Russian political leadership was somehow "disinformed" by its own intel.

From what we know, Russians certainly knew of very unfavourable force ratio.

In Kiyv region, they made over a hundred accurate strikes at the beginning of the war, so no doubt somebody on their side knew of them having to fight being outnumbered.

Though, an average Major Ivan surely wasn't allowed to know anything of that.


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## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593512294696341507
@jhungary @F-22Raptor

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## zartosht

Beny Karachun said:


> Took out lol:
> "We are in communication with the vessel and there are no reports of injuries or pollution. All crew are safe and accounted for,” the company said. “There is some minor damage to the vessel’s hull but no spillage of cargo or water ingress.”
> 
> Netanyahu said he won't respect the gas deal signed by Lapid, and Netanyahu is going to be the next prime minister, god willing.
> 
> Shahed is just a copy of the Harpy drone, nothing unheard of, we have been making these since the 90s. Ours are also SEAD capable.
> 
> Iran is pathetic.
> 
> 
> I speak Russian, those subtitles are completely made up lol, they're talking about something else
> 
> I guess the "RealSubtitles?" Account name confirms it lmao



If Iran wanted to, that ship would be at the bottom of the sea. This was a calculated message beyond your comprehension ukie refugee boy

When a ship eats a shahed, every other zionist ship is now on notice. I wouldnt want to be a crew member of a zionist ship going anywhere near Iran.

I wouldnt want to be the owner either (unless running an insurance scam). Which is what your kind is famous for. Kinda like that zionist dude who took out multi billion dollar insurance on the world trade centre shortly before 9/11 to insure him against thaat exact loss

Its almost as if the zionist pig silverstein knew what was going to happen???

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Beny Karachun

zartosht said:


> If Iran wanted to, that ship would be at the bottom of the sea. This was a calculated message beyond your comprehension ukie refugee boy
> 
> When a ship eats a shahed, every other zionist ship is now on notice. I wouldnt want to be a crew member of a zionist ship going anywhere near Iran.
> 
> I wouldnt want to be the owner either (unless running an insurance scam). Which is what your kind is famous for. Kinda like that zionist dude who took out multi billion dollar insurance on the world trade centre shortly before 9/11 to insure him against thaat exact loss
> 
> Its almost as if the zionist pig silverstein knew what was going to happen???
> 
> View attachment 898033


If we wanted to, Iran would be made of glass. Every time an Israeli ship gets hit by a Shahed, Israel hits 4 Iranian ships.








How the shadow war between Iran and Israel is affecting shipping


The Mercer Street incident has once again brought the shadow war at sea between Iran and Israel into the spotlight.




www.ship-technology.com










Israel 'bombed a dozen ships carrying Iranian oil or weapons in past two years' | Israel | The Guardian







amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org





Iranian ships don't like being near Iran either:








Iranian sailors killed in 'friendly fire' incident - BBC News


Nineteen sailors died when their ship was reportedly hit during a test of a new missile.




www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org

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## One_Nation

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Or the opposite side should not force somebody to use these kinds of methods.
> Maybe they are the ones with the failed ideology?
> At least, when you "do the Genghis Khan" and they aren't around anymore.
> Because militarly, they wouldn't be able do something against it.
> Only sit it out.
> 
> It's always the point of view.


hmm... "forcing" someone to be a Genghis Khan. We already know every barbarian has an excuse.


----------



## Vergennes

One Russian got his entire squad killed after opening fire on Ukrainian soldiers while surrendering. 12 Russian and 1 Ukrainian soldiers died there.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593573660018753538

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593523126922518528

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## Vergennes

Mobiks are understanding what their real role is : Cannon fodder. To be honest I have zero sympathy for them,they aren't criticizing the war or Putin but only about their "conditions" equipments and pays. They deserve everything that happens to them in Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593566933068251136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593576879310737408

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## reflecthofgeismar

One_Nation said:


> hmm... "forcing" someone to be a Genghis Khan. We already know every barbarian has an excuse.


Well, that's a problem with humanity itself.
I look at it in this way.
See when a Tiger, Lion, Jaguar, Leopard etc. kills, they have this killing in their eyes, they are hungry, they are in a frenzy.
Look at Reptiles doing that, there is nothing, nothing good or bad in their eyes (actually animals are never bad in a human sense) but crocodiles tearing apart something, no matter the victim is making noises or not (depends on how large/strong the croc is and where it bites first etc.) the crocodile works like a machine.

And that is the thing.
We say this/that is "humanly", this/that is a rule.
I can understand Taliban who fight the way they are doing it. Because they would be completely obliterated in a open battle, with uniforms, their technicals and maxium a few BMP-1/2, T-55/62. They could do nothing except going to their paradise with this rule-based-fighting-way. 

So they have their style, according to their rules.
Civilian clothes, not clear visible patches etc.
But then they are LUCKY that Americans aren't rounding up the males in the village where a classical Taliban attack happened. 
*TBH, today there are really no reasons to execute randomly 10+ civs for a partisan attack, you can check who used a rifle, can enforce rules before things like that escalate (forgery-proof and remotely readable passports, fast testing smoke traces testers, killing/free fire zones in remote areas (with drones) AFTER 2 weeks of warnings etc.)*
So the Americans are, because of their based values, castrating themselfes in order to obey the(ir) rules (mostly).
They are at disadvantages against the Taliban who make their own rules.
You can't really get them in a sense that it would make a difference.
That's a problem, for the Westerns who are there (arguable).
I personal don't care if they Taliban house OsamaBinBathing, why shouldn't I, he attacked Murrica, not Germany.
Otherwise the Americans had other ways to get him instead of wasting so much money (and lifes, of all sides).


----------



## aviator_fan

Beny Karachun said:


> If we wanted to, Iran would be made of glass. Every time an Israeli ship gets hit by a Shahed, Israel hits 4 Iranian ships.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the shadow war between Iran and Israel is affecting shipping
> 
> 
> The Mercer Street incident has once again brought the shadow war at sea between Iran and Israel into the spotlight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ship-technology.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel 'bombed a dozen ships carrying Iranian oil or weapons in past two years' | Israel | The Guardian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iranian ships don't like being near Iran either:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iranian sailors killed in 'friendly fire' incident - BBC News
> 
> 
> Nineteen sailors died when their ship was reportedly hit during a test of a new missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org


cant you and Shawnee go to some middle east thread and duel out whose country has bigger b**ls there and not clutter this thread?

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## Vergennes

From "We'll take Kyiv in 3 days" to "We are building fortifications on our borders".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593627735242559491

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593627193783029760

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## Viet

Retired US general Ben Hodges, the former supreme commander of US army in Europa makes a predictiion:
the decisive battles will be fought at Mariupol and north of Crimea. Ukraine army will prevail in Summer 2023.









"Ukraine wird im Sommer ihr gesamtes Territorium kontrollieren"


Der Raketeneinschlag in Polen ruft Ängste vor einer weiteren Eskalation des Krieges hervor. Der frühere Oberkommandeur der US-Armee in Europa, Ben Hodges, schätzt diese Gefahr im ntv-Interview als gering ein. Er rechnet vielmehr mit der Befreiung der Krim im nächsten Sommer.




www.n-tv.de

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## thetutle

reflecthofgeismar said:


> So they have their style, according to their rules.
> Civilian clothes, not clear visible patches etc.
> But then they are LUCKY that Americans aren't rounding up the males in the village where a classical Taliban attack happened.
> *TBH, today there are really no reasons to execute randomly 10+ civs for a partisan attack, you can check who used a rifle, can enforce rules before things like that escalate (forgery-proof and remotely readable passports, fast testing smoke traces testers, killing/free fire zones in remote areas (with drones) AFTER 2 weeks of warnings etc.)*
> So the Americans are, because of their based values, castrating themselfes in order to obey the(ir) rules (mostly).
> They are at disadvantages against the Taliban who make their own rules.
> You can't really get them in a sense that it would make a difference.
> That's a problem, for the Westerns who are there (arguable).


USSR did the type of fighting you are suggesting. They lost. USA did a lot of stuff like this, but not as much, they still lost.

This idea that you can brutalise a population and make them surrender just doesn't stack up with reality. Just look where Afghanistan is, surrounded by Pakistan and Russian satellites. Pakistan trained the Taliban and owl feed the Taliban with arms and money and people. With a combined population of about 200 million, these two countries were determined that US failed in Afghanistan.

Did US have the capacity to genocide Afghanistan? not really, Pakistan had nukes and an endless supply of Pashtuns. There is also china and Russia who would get involved. Once US did something like that there would be a massive proliferation of nukes as all others would know they will suffer genocide next. The US would upend its own world order by doing this.

Trump was the first to realise that this war should not go on and I'm sure he asked the generals how he could win, and unsurprisingly they told him that he'd have to kill 10 milion people. He knew this was not possible and admitted it.

The world works on a system of alliances. the big fish cant just eat the smaller fish. As we can see in Ukraine. If this was possible there would now be only one country left that conquered all the others. There is no such country, and this system, that we have now allows the safety and relative sovereignty of most countries that exist today. Thats why we have countries like Slovenia and north Macedonia. They are easy to conquer and subdue only on paper. The current world order and system of alliances allows them to exist and have a voice. Same with Afghanistan and their (now we can confidently say "legitimate") government.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593426128223744000

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593299153483964418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593205434227523584


----------



## The SC

The Russians say that Ukrainian army executed Russian POWs..






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593528104097615872

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Five NATO Aircraft Carriers Are Currently Operating In European Waters​














Five NATO Aircraft Carriers Are Currently Operating In European Waters


NATO says the five carrier deployments are all separate, but highlight the alliance's capacity to conduct major coordinated naval operations.




www.thedrive.com




MUSCLE-FLEXING​

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## aziqbal

Russia has for centuries killed Ukrainians and many Eastern European nations 

however this time Ukraine had balls to stand and fight 

they handed Russia a defeat they wont forget in a long time 

but I have this feeling next year the Russian counter attack will come after Winter of preparations 

because historically speaking thats what Russia has always done 

Ottoman beat the Russians back until all of the land around Black Sea belongs to Turks 

then after 200 years Russia comes back 

so lest see what happens

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593525463661559808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593722047863361536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593656302760333312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593609278417293313

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593713375867011073
Russian losses now exceed 8,000

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## Georg

sammuel said:


> One of the few advantages of the Russian tanks are their low profile.
> 
> T-72 is 2.23 m in height , T 80 2.202 in height . compared to the Abraham Tank - in height 2.44 m
> 
> Add to that the low turret , that the Soviet model usually have , and they have an advantage when hiding and firing behind a hill or a ramp.
> 
> Now imagine trying to hide behind a ramp with this contraption attached to your tank. You would be spotted from miles away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


actually the low profil is much more of a disadvantage than a advantage... 
low profil turret = extremly limited up and down gun movement... means tanks like T-55, T-62 etc. cant fire from hull down positions and need to completely expose their tank to shoot downhill and cant fire uphill at a step angle ...


----------



## Georg

thetutle said:


> Slavery is in the bible. Christians had it before muslims.


you little brain ill troll know that slavery is as old as human history... slavery existed long befor christians... in fact early christians were often victims of slavery... 
doing little human history check befor posting utterly crap helps to not loose your face and end as the complete idiot in the topic

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## BHAN85

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593426128223744000


There are a lot of unanswered questions in that strange incident.

Why Patriot system didnt work?

Why a Ukrainian S300 missile goes to Poland?

Why Poland make a massmedia show if they knew "the truth" since the first moment?

And so on

I think maybe Zelensky is not lying, and really he doesnt know what really happened.

Of course USA must know it, but the lie and deceivement is the hallmark of American empire.



Georg said:


> you little brain ill troll know that slavery is as old as human history... slavery existed long befor christians... in fact early christians were often victims of slavery...
> doing little human history check befor posting utterly crap helps to not loose your face and end as the complete idiot in the topic


If you dont have enough money to live without work, then you are a slave.

So dont worry, slavery exists and it always existed, with different names.


----------



## Georg

German Military supply to Ukraine till this week


30 MRAP vehicles DINGO
Iris-T SLM missiles*
18 reconnaissance drones*
17 heavy and medium bridge systems* 
5 multiple rocket launchers MARS II with ammunition 
14 self-propelled howitzers Panzerhaubitze 2000 (joint project with the Netherlands)
2 unmanned surface vessels*
air defence system Iris-T SLM*
10 armoured recovery vehicles* 
200 tents 
195 generators 
116.000 winter jackets
80.000 winter trousers
240.000 winter hats 
100,000 first aid kits*
405,000 pre-packaged military Meals Ready 
30,000 rounds ammunition 40mm*
30 self-propelled anti-aircraft guns GEPARD including circa 6.000 rounds of ammunition*
13,500 projectiles 155mm 
67 fridges for medical material
counter battery radar system COBRA*
4,000 rounds practice ammunitions for self-propelled anti-aircraft guns
54 M113 armoured personnel carriers (systems of Denmark, upgrades financed by Germany)*
53,000 rounds ammunitions for self-propelled anti-aircraft guns 
20 laser target designators*
3,000 anti-tank weapons Panzerfaust 3 with 900 firing devices
14,900 anti-tank mines
500 Man Portable Air Defense Systems STINGER
2,700 Man Portable Air Defense Systems STRELA
22 million rounds of ammunition for fire arms
50 bunker buster missiles
100 machine gun MG3 with 500 spare barrels and breechblocks
100,000 hand grenades
5,300 explosive charges
100,000 m detonating cord and 100.000 detonators
350,000 detonators
10 anti-drone guns* 
100 auto-injector devices
28,000 combat helmets
15 palettes military clothing
280 vehicles (trucks, minibuses, all-terrain vehicles)
6 palettes material for explosive ordnance disposal
125 binoculars
1,200 hospital beds
18 palettes medical material, 60 surgical lights
protective clothing, surgical masks
10,000 sleeping bags
600 safety glasses
1 radio frequency system
3,000 field telephones with 5.000 cable reels and carrying straps
1 field hospital (joint project with Estonia)*
353 night vision goggles
4 electronic anti-drone devices* 
165 field glasses
medical material (inter alia back packs, compression bandages)
38 laser range finders
Diesel and gasoline (ongoing deliveries)*
10 tons AdBlue*
500 medical gauzes
MiG-29 spare parts*
30 protected vehicles*
80 pick-up trucks*
7,944 man-portable anti-tank weapons RGW 90 Matador*
6 mobile decontamination vehicles HEP 70 including decontamination material 
10 HMMWV (8x ground radar capability, 2x jamming/anti drone capability)*
7 radio jammers*
8 mobile ground surveillance radars and thermal imaging cameras*
4 mobile and protected mine clearing systems*
8 electronic anti-drone devices*
1 high frequency unit with equipment*
delivered last week

*ammunition for multiple rocket launchers MARS II *
*8 tank transporter tractor M1070 Oshkosh* (before: 5)*
*39 border protection vehicles* (before: 22)*
*spare parts for heavy machine gun M2*
*30 MG3 for armoured recovery vehicles (before: 6)*
*116 mobile heating systems**
*28 anti-drone sensors and jammers (before: 18) *
*20 frequency range extensions for anti-drone devices**
*4 lift trucks* (before: 3)*
in preperation 

*10 mobile and protected mine clearing systems* (before: 4)*
Iris-T SLM missiles*
42 mine clearing tanks*
4 mobile, remote controlled and protected mine clearing systems*
5 mobile reconnaissance systems (on vehicles)
461 border protection vehicles*
6,100 projectiles 155mm*
186,000 rounds ammunition 40mm*
5 armoured engineer vehicles 
35 load-handling trucks 8x8 
4000 sleeping bags
3 heavy and medium bridge systems* 
16 self-propelled howitzer Zuzana 2* (joint project with Denmark and Norway)
36 ambulances*
90 heavy duty trailer trucks*
3 air defence system IRIS-T SLM* 
20 MRAP vehicles DINGO
4 tank transporter tractor M1070 Oshkosh*
12 communications electronic scanner/jammer systems*
field hospital (role 2)*
20 rocket launchers 70mm on pick-up trucks with 2.000 rockets* 
2 lift trucks*
20 frequency range extensions for anti-drone devices*
5 armoured recovery vehicles*
8 unmanned surface vessels*
14 truck tractor trains and 14 semi-trailers*
2 tractors and 4 trailers*
22 reconnaissance drones*
10 protected vehicles*
vehicle decontamination system
5,032 man-portable anti-tank weapons
200 trucks*
10 anti-drone sensors and jammers*
16 bridge-laying tanks BIBER (BEAVER)*

The total value of individual licenses issued by the Federal Government for the export of military goods in the period from January 1, 2022 to November 14, 2022 amounts to 1.540.932.933 Euro

https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992

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## BHAN85

So much military help.

But 10 millions Ukrainian are without gas and electricity in a fucking cold country.

Just because the West didnt help enough to stop filthy crappy Iranian Shaheds 20k drones attacks to power grid,

The West (USA, the decision maker, because Europe are just brainless slaves obbeying American master) is not interested in really help Ukrainian people.

They are interested in a endless Ukrainian war, to hurt Russia, and if milions of Ukrainian people are fcked dying of cold and hating Russia, it's a good thing from USA twisted point of view. Ukrainian people hate to Russia is an asset for twisted USA.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Soldier35

Australian-made Ukrainian armored car Bushmaster was ambushed in Ukraine. There were seven mercenaries from Poland in the car, all of them died. Judging by the damage, the ambush was organized professionally, the fire was fired from all sides.






Footage of the attack on the positions of the Ukrainian army near Maryinka by a pair of Russian Su-25 attack aircraft.






An attempt by Ukrainian soldiers to cross the Dnieper River in light boats. The units of the Russian army discovered the landing and a battle ensued. The Ukrainian landing force reportedly retreated with losses.






A Ukrainian T-64 tank was hit by a Russian Lancet kamikaze drone. In the video, you can see that the tank crew even noticed a drone flying up to them, but did not close the hatches. Reportedly, the attack on the Ukrainian convoy took place on the banks of the Dnieper.






The Ukrainian army actively uses the English armored trucks Wolfhound. The Wolfhound armored vehicle was the development of the Mastiff armored car, which was developed on the basis of the American Cougar vehicle. Wolfhound armored vehicles are now all decommissioned and are actively sold by England. In Ukraine, cars are used as armored personnel carriers, for this the space between the loading platform and the lattice screens of the car was filled with sandbags, and bags are also used directly in the body instead of seats. The vehicle's armor can withstand 12.7 mm bullets from all angles. Mine protection is designed to detonate 14 kg of explosives under the wheel or 7 kg under the bottom. The American 12.7-mm machine gun Browning M2HB is used as a weapon. The Wolfhound armored vehicle weighs 25 tons and has an engine power of 330 hp. The maximum speed on the highway is 90 km / h. Crew 2 people.






The Ukrainian army began to use the GAIA Amir multifunctional armored vehicles manufactured by the Israeli company Gaia Automotive Industries. Officially, Israel does not supply weapons to Ukraine, and it is not known how the Amir armored cars ended up in the Kherson region, their manufacturer prohibits re-export. The armored car was first shown in 2018 and is used for patrolling, personnel transfer and evacuation of the wounded. The armored vehicle has protection against mines with a mass of charge up to 6 kg and protection against bullets with a caliber of 7.62 mm, protection can be improved with additional modules. The Amir armored vehicle is capable of carrying up to 12 soldiers and 3 tons of cargo. The car has a permanent four-wheel drive, the maximum speed of the armored car is 122 km / h.

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## sammuel

Georg said:


> actually the low profil is much more of a disadvantage than a advantage...
> low profil turret = extremly limited up and down gun movement... means tanks like T-55, T-62 etc. cant fire from hull down positions and need to completely expose their tank to shoot downhill and cant fire uphill at a step angle ...



That is true.

I was referring only to the visibility issue.

The tank first defense is not to be spotted at all. Once a tank gets into someone's crosshair , he is already in trouble. Imagine trying to hide with this contraption attached to your tank , which add another meter in height to your turret,

It will also make escaping the turret , in case tank gets hit , longer. Not something you want when the tank is on fire.

look at this , more than doubles the turret height :







how about this one :

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## Bengal71

LeGenD said:


> But US informed Putin that *it* will intervene and finish the job of destroying Russian forces stationed inside Ukraine and around Ukraine in response.



I read the white house informed Putin about their actions if Russia uses nuclear weapons but I haven't read anywhere what the US would exactly do. Is there a source of what you are saying ?

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## sammuel

BHAN85 said:


> So much military help.
> 
> But 10 millions Ukrainian are without gas and electricity in a fucking cold country.
> 
> Just because the West didnt help enough ...



So Putin decides to target civilians , but somehow that too is someone else fault .

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593713375867011073
> Russian losses now exceed 8,000


Good. The nazi demilitarization special operation is having great results!


----------



## Viet

sammuel said:


> That is true.
> 
> I was referring only to the visibility issue.
> 
> The tank first defense is not to be spotted at all. Once a tank gets into someone's crosshair , he is already in trouble. Imagine trying to hide with this contraption attached to your tank , which add another meter in height to your turret,
> 
> It will also make escaping the turret , in case tank gets hit , longer. Not something you want when the tank is on fire.
> 
> look at this , more than doubles the turret height :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how about this one :


That’s beyond ridiculous. Putin makes Russia army to a joke.

Anti tank missiles can hit in every direction in every part of the tanks. what next? Using rain umbrella to protect the tanks?

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593381222633316352
> Russians starting to realize the situation their in


Come on, you are better than posting fake subtitle satire to try and present it as fact. Here is the actual translation:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593496636520554496
@LeGenD 

Most of us here dislike Russia and its illegal war in Ukraine but let's not spread fake stuff around.

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> So much military help.
> 
> But 10 millions Ukrainian are without gas and electricity in a fucking cold country.
> 
> Just because the West didnt help enough to stop filthy crappy Iranian Shaheds 20k drones attacks to power grid,
> 
> The West (USA, the decision maker, because Europe are just brainless slaves obbeying American master) is not interested in really help Ukrainian people.
> 
> They are interested in an endless Ukrainian war, to hurt Russia, and if milions of Ukrainian people are fcked dying of cold and hating Russia, it's a good thing from USA twisted point of view. Ukrainian people hate to Russia is an asset for twisted USA.


You don’t get the picture. This terror bombing is cruel but not what you think of. Iran drones don’t pose serious threat anymore. It’s expensive Russia cruise missiles that make Ukraine life harder. Putin army fires on some day 100 cruise missiles or drones at peak on Tuesday this week. Ukraine air defense interception rate is about 80 percent at max. The 20 percent are enough to devastate Ukraine electricity grids.

The Russians know very well about Ukraine infra. Many of those infra electricity, gas, waters, canalization were built during Soviet times.

What Ukraine needs is more anti aircraft missile batteries.


----------



## Georg

Viet said:


> That’s beyond ridiculous. Putin makes Russia army to a joke.
> 
> Anti tank missiles can hit in every direction in every part of the tanks. what next? Using rain umbrella to protect the tanks?



Maybee Russia ask Israel if they can buy Trophy 🤣🤣


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593906792400318464

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## thetutle

BHAN85 said:


> They are interested in a endless Ukrainian war, to hurt Russia, and if milions of Ukrainian people are fcked dying of cold and hating Russia, it's a good thing from USA twisted point of view. Ukrainian people hate to Russia is an asset for twisted USA.


So what do you suggest Ukraine do?


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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593525463661559808
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593722047863361536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593656302760333312
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593609278417293313



The winter uniforms from Canada are a god send and will help Ukraine conduct operations over winter while Russian soldiers freeze ( -> https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/20...ys-1-5-mln-military-uniforms-are-missing-news ).



aziqbal said:


> Russia has for centuries killed Ukrainians and many Eastern European nations
> 
> however this time Ukraine had balls to stand and fight
> 
> they handed Russia a defeat they wont forget in a long time
> 
> but I have this feeling next year the Russian counter attack will come after Winter of preparations
> 
> because historically speaking thats what Russia has always done
> 
> Ottoman beat the Russians back until all of the land around Black Sea belongs to Turks
> 
> then after 200 years Russia comes back
> 
> so lest see what happens


True - but wars of old cannot be done now. Modern war is such that you end the war with what was available at the start.

Russia has lost her best soldiers, and her best equipment already. Russia's ability to ramp up production is comprimised as they cannt get western components to build their military weapons from - the irony of Putin thinking his leverage over energy supplies to the west will make the west stay away from the war and supporting ukraine is funny when you consider that the west "cornered" his military-industry complex by making it dependent on western components is FUNNY beyond belief .. so much for the "master strategist" Putin ....

The only thing for Russia is now - how slowly they will lose this war.

Winning this war for Russia is off the table now (imho of course ).

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> You don’t get the picture. This terror bombing is cruel but not what you think of. Iran drones don’t pose serious threat anymore. It’s expensive Russia cruise missiles that make Ukraine life harder. Putin army fires on some day 100 cruise missiles or drones at peak on Tuesday this week. Ukraine air defense interception rate is about 80 percent at max. The 20 percent are enough to devastate Ukraine electricity grids.
> 
> The Russians know very well about Ukraine infra. Many of those infra electricity, gas, waters, canalization were built during Soviet times.
> 
> What Ukraine needs is more anti aircraft missile batteries.



Additionally - Ukraine will have ready in the next few months/weeks - her own suicide drones - and they will use it to return the favour back onto the Russian energy grid aswell .






Ukraine conflict: Kyiv teases new long-range response to Russian ‘suicide drone' attacks


The Ukrainian government has developed a long-range strike capability that it is close to employing in response to Russian attacks using Iranian-sourced loitering...



www.janes.com






> In terms of the information it was able to disclose, Ukroboronprom only said that the new system has a range of *1,000 km, and a warhead of 75 kg*. It added that “we are *finalising *the *development*”.



Russia will reap what they have sow'ed and wish they never started this suicide drone against energy infrastructure .....

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## BHAN85

sammuel said:


> So Putin decides to target civilians , but somehow that too is someone else fault .


Yes, Western devil unstabilized Ukraine through bribes to Ukraine elite.

It's not fault of Ukrainian common people dying of cold.

It's fault of West, USA, taking advantage of Ukraine corrupt elite using them against Russia.

And of course is fault of Russia and Iran too.

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## BHAN85

thetutle said:


> So what do you suggest Ukraine do?


Ukrainian common people must hang from the balls to their corrupt elite who take Western bribes.

Then must use their endless amount of weapons to ask Western devils a money compensation for unstabilizing their country bribing their corrupt filthy elite.

And stop threarting militarily Russia, a war that they can not never win.

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## Vergennes

Snow begins to fall in some regions of Ukraine....

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## MeFishToo

BHAN85 said:


> Yes, Western devil unstabilized Ukraine through bribes to Ukraine elite.
> 
> It's not fault of Ukrainian common people dying of cold.
> 
> It's fault of West, USA, taking advantage of Ukraine corrupt elite using them against Russia.
> 
> And of course is fault of Russia and Iran too.


Ukrainians trying to rid themself of russian controlled puppets, and all of a sudden the ukrainian elite is corrupt because it turns to the west for help..
But sure, Ukraine is corrupt. Its how the russian elite controls Russia and its vasal states. Ukraine is going to have to fight corruption for years, and kicking Russia and its puppets out is a very good start.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Georg said:


> German Military supply to Ukraine till this week
> 
> 
> 30 MRAP vehicles DINGO
> Iris-T SLM missiles*
> 18 reconnaissance drones*
> 17 heavy and medium bridge systems*
> 5 multiple rocket launchers MARS II with ammunition
> 14 self-propelled howitzers Panzerhaubitze 2000 (joint project with the Netherlands)
> 2 unmanned surface vessels*
> air defence system Iris-T SLM*
> 10 armoured recovery vehicles*
> 200 tents
> 195 generators
> 116.000 winter jackets
> 80.000 winter trousers
> 240.000 winter hats
> 100,000 first aid kits*
> 405,000 pre-packaged military Meals Ready
> 30,000 rounds ammunition 40mm*
> 30 self-propelled anti-aircraft guns GEPARD including circa 6.000 rounds of ammunition*
> 13,500 projectiles 155mm
> 67 fridges for medical material
> counter battery radar system COBRA*
> 4,000 rounds practice ammunitions for self-propelled anti-aircraft guns
> 54 M113 armoured personnel carriers (systems of Denmark, upgrades financed by Germany)*
> 53,000 rounds ammunitions for self-propelled anti-aircraft guns
> 20 laser target designators*
> 3,000 anti-tank weapons Panzerfaust 3 with 900 firing devices
> 14,900 anti-tank mines
> 500 Man Portable Air Defense Systems STINGER
> 2,700 Man Portable Air Defense Systems STRELA
> 22 million rounds of ammunition for fire arms
> 50 bunker buster missiles
> 100 machine gun MG3 with 500 spare barrels and breechblocks
> 100,000 hand grenades
> 5,300 explosive charges
> 100,000 m detonating cord and 100.000 detonators
> 350,000 detonators
> 10 anti-drone guns*
> 100 auto-injector devices
> 28,000 combat helmets
> 15 palettes military clothing
> 280 vehicles (trucks, minibuses, all-terrain vehicles)
> 6 palettes material for explosive ordnance disposal
> 125 binoculars
> 1,200 hospital beds
> 18 palettes medical material, 60 surgical lights
> protective clothing, surgical masks
> 10,000 sleeping bags
> 600 safety glasses
> 1 radio frequency system
> 3,000 field telephones with 5.000 cable reels and carrying straps
> 1 field hospital (joint project with Estonia)*
> 353 night vision goggles
> 4 electronic anti-drone devices*
> 165 field glasses
> medical material (inter alia back packs, compression bandages)
> 38 laser range finders
> Diesel and gasoline (ongoing deliveries)*
> 10 tons AdBlue*
> 500 medical gauzes
> MiG-29 spare parts*
> 30 protected vehicles*
> 80 pick-up trucks*
> 7,944 man-portable anti-tank weapons RGW 90 Matador*
> 6 mobile decontamination vehicles HEP 70 including decontamination material
> 10 HMMWV (8x ground radar capability, 2x jamming/anti drone capability)*
> 7 radio jammers*
> 8 mobile ground surveillance radars and thermal imaging cameras*
> 4 mobile and protected mine clearing systems*
> 8 electronic anti-drone devices*
> 1 high frequency unit with equipment*
> delivered last week
> 
> *ammunition for multiple rocket launchers MARS II *
> *8 tank transporter tractor M1070 Oshkosh* (before: 5)*
> *39 border protection vehicles* (before: 22)*
> *spare parts for heavy machine gun M2*
> *30 MG3 for armoured recovery vehicles (before: 6)*
> *116 mobile heating systems**
> *28 anti-drone sensors and jammers (before: 18) *
> *20 frequency range extensions for anti-drone devices**
> *4 lift trucks* (before: 3)*
> in preperation
> 
> *10 mobile and protected mine clearing systems* (before: 4)*
> Iris-T SLM missiles*
> 42 mine clearing tanks*
> 4 mobile, remote controlled and protected mine clearing systems*
> 5 mobile reconnaissance systems (on vehicles)
> 461 border protection vehicles*
> 6,100 projectiles 155mm*
> 186,000 rounds ammunition 40mm*
> 5 armoured engineer vehicles
> 35 load-handling trucks 8x8
> 4000 sleeping bags
> 3 heavy and medium bridge systems*
> 16 self-propelled howitzer Zuzana 2* (joint project with Denmark and Norway)
> 36 ambulances*
> 90 heavy duty trailer trucks*
> 3 air defence system IRIS-T SLM*
> 20 MRAP vehicles DINGO
> 4 tank transporter tractor M1070 Oshkosh*
> 12 communications electronic scanner/jammer systems*
> field hospital (role 2)*
> 20 rocket launchers 70mm on pick-up trucks with 2.000 rockets*
> 2 lift trucks*
> 20 frequency range extensions for anti-drone devices*
> 5 armoured recovery vehicles*
> 8 unmanned surface vessels*
> 14 truck tractor trains and 14 semi-trailers*
> 2 tractors and 4 trailers*
> 22 reconnaissance drones*
> 10 protected vehicles*
> vehicle decontamination system
> 5,032 man-portable anti-tank weapons
> 200 trucks*
> 10 anti-drone sensors and jammers*
> 16 bridge-laying tanks BIBER (BEAVER)*
> 
> The total value of individual licenses issued by the Federal Government for the export of military goods in the period from January 1, 2022 to November 14, 2022 amounts to 1.540.932.933 Euro
> 
> https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992


Faaak, all this for free :o


----------



## Beny Karachun

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Faaak, all this for free :o


It's much cheaper to send it to Ukraine for free and let them use it against the Russians than keep it and fight the Russians.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

*Ukraine attacks Sheskharis Harbor in Russia’s Black Sea port of Novorossiysk in Russia ...*









Ukraine Situation Report: Possible Drone Boat Attack On Russian Port


Video shows what is said to be a Ukrainian 'kamikaze' drone boat attacking a port inside Russian territory.




www.thedrive.com

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## Paul2

sammuel said:


> That is true.
> 
> I was referring only to the visibility issue.
> 
> The tank first defense is not to be spotted at all. Once a tank gets into someone's crosshair , he is already in trouble. Imagine trying to hide with this contraption attached to your tank , which add another meter in height to your turret,
> 
> It will also make escaping the turret , in case tank gets hit , longer. Not something you want when the tank is on fire.
> 
> look at this , more than doubles the turret height :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how about this one :



Think of it, tanks with those "cope cages" are only 10cm-20cm taller than Challenger.



MeFishToo said:


> Ukraine is going to have to fight corruption for years, and kicking Russia and its puppets out is a very good start.



UK too... Londongrad will take years to cleanse



Ali_Baba said:


> *Ukraine attacks Sheskharis Harbor in Russia’s Black Sea port of Novorossiysk in Russia ...*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Situation Report: Possible Drone Boat Attack On Russian Port
> 
> 
> Video shows what is said to be a Ukrainian 'kamikaze' drone boat attacking a port inside Russian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



Novo will be really big. It's effectively half or Russia's sea trade.

Russian ports on the Pacific coast are way smaller, and very dependent on rail capacity, which they can't increase (OBOR also hit that wall, when bright minds in Beijing realised that Russian rail is shite)


----------



## BHAN85

MeFishToo said:


> Ukrainians trying to rid themself of russian controlled puppets, and all of a sudden the ukrainian elite is corrupt because it turns to the west for help..
> But sure, Ukraine is corrupt. Its how the russian elite controls Russia and its vasal states. Ukraine is going to have to fight corruption for years, and kicking Russia and its puppets out is a very good start.


What a stupid thing.

They are changing Rusian master by Western master. They are not sovereign under Western ruling.

At least with Russian master common people lived in peace and without starving to death and dying of cold.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## MeFishToo

BHAN85 said:


> What a stupid thing.
> 
> They are changing Rusian master by Western master. They are not sovereign under Western ruling.
> 
> At least with Russian master common people lived in peace and without starving to death and dying of cold.


Yes, Russia has nothing to do with current situation in Ukraine. Its not like theyve done whatever they could to prevent Ukraine from prospering free from this russian dominance.
You must really hate the West reaching conclusions like that.

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## BHAN85

MeFishToo said:


> Yes, Russia has nothing to do with current situation in Ukraine. Its not like theyve done whatever they could to prevent Ukraine from prospering free from this russian dominance.
> You must really hate the West reaching conclusions like that.


I'm not saying those things.

Russia is accountable and West too.

But Ukraine with Russian master live in peace, basic needs satisfied.

And with Western master only Ukraine filthy elite live well escaping with bagfuls of Western money from their country, as the Ukrainian common people keep dying of war, starving and cold.

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## BHAN85

Mutatis mutandis this is the story of how West deceive Ukraine to trigger a war.

Offering money for kill Russian speaking people until make Russia reactions strongly.






Swindlers always acts in the same way with their scams.

Offering some good in a short term in exchange to a great damage in the long term.

In the long term West Europe will suffer too the twisted plans of American masters.

I only hope that dumbfucks like @MeFishToo will be the first enjoying his American masters plans results.


----------



## Viet

Georg said:


> German Military supply to Ukraine till this week
> 
> 
> 30 MRAP vehicles DINGO
> Iris-T SLM missiles*
> 18 reconnaissance drones*
> 17 heavy and medium bridge systems*
> 5 multiple rocket launchers MARS II with ammunition
> 14 self-propelled howitzers Panzerhaubitze 2000 (joint project with the Netherlands)
> 2 unmanned surface vessels*
> air defence system Iris-T SLM*
> 10 armoured recovery vehicles*
> 200 tents
> 195 generators
> 116.000 winter jackets
> 80.000 winter trousers
> 240.000 winter hats
> 100,000 first aid kits*
> 405,000 pre-packaged military Meals Ready
> 30,000 rounds ammunition 40mm*
> 30 self-propelled anti-aircraft guns GEPARD including circa 6.000 rounds of ammunition*
> 13,500 projectiles 155mm
> 67 fridges for medical material
> counter battery radar system COBRA*
> 4,000 rounds practice ammunitions for self-propelled anti-aircraft guns
> 54 M113 armoured personnel carriers (systems of Denmark, upgrades financed by Germany)*
> 53,000 rounds ammunitions for self-propelled anti-aircraft guns
> 20 laser target designators*
> 3,000 anti-tank weapons Panzerfaust 3 with 900 firing devices
> 14,900 anti-tank mines
> 500 Man Portable Air Defense Systems STINGER
> 2,700 Man Portable Air Defense Systems STRELA
> 22 million rounds of ammunition for fire arms
> 50 bunker buster missiles
> 100 machine gun MG3 with 500 spare barrels and breechblocks
> 100,000 hand grenades
> 5,300 explosive charges
> 100,000 m detonating cord and 100.000 detonators
> 350,000 detonators
> 10 anti-drone guns*
> 100 auto-injector devices
> 28,000 combat helmets
> 15 palettes military clothing
> 280 vehicles (trucks, minibuses, all-terrain vehicles)
> 6 palettes material for explosive ordnance disposal
> 125 binoculars
> 1,200 hospital beds
> 18 palettes medical material, 60 surgical lights
> protective clothing, surgical masks
> 10,000 sleeping bags
> 600 safety glasses
> 1 radio frequency system
> 3,000 field telephones with 5.000 cable reels and carrying straps
> 1 field hospital (joint project with Estonia)*
> 353 night vision goggles
> 4 electronic anti-drone devices*
> 165 field glasses
> medical material (inter alia back packs, compression bandages)
> 38 laser range finders
> Diesel and gasoline (ongoing deliveries)*
> 10 tons AdBlue*
> 500 medical gauzes
> MiG-29 spare parts*
> 30 protected vehicles*
> 80 pick-up trucks*
> 7,944 man-portable anti-tank weapons RGW 90 Matador*
> 6 mobile decontamination vehicles HEP 70 including decontamination material
> 10 HMMWV (8x ground radar capability, 2x jamming/anti drone capability)*
> 7 radio jammers*
> 8 mobile ground surveillance radars and thermal imaging cameras*
> 4 mobile and protected mine clearing systems*
> 8 electronic anti-drone devices*
> 1 high frequency unit with equipment*
> delivered last week
> 
> *ammunition for multiple rocket launchers MARS II *
> *8 tank transporter tractor M1070 Oshkosh* (before: 5)*
> *39 border protection vehicles* (before: 22)*
> *spare parts for heavy machine gun M2*
> *30 MG3 for armoured recovery vehicles (before: 6)*
> *116 mobile heating systems**
> *28 anti-drone sensors and jammers (before: 18) *
> *20 frequency range extensions for anti-drone devices**
> *4 lift trucks* (before: 3)*
> in preperation
> 
> *10 mobile and protected mine clearing systems* (before: 4)*
> Iris-T SLM missiles*
> 42 mine clearing tanks*
> 4 mobile, remote controlled and protected mine clearing systems*
> 5 mobile reconnaissance systems (on vehicles)
> 461 border protection vehicles*
> 6,100 projectiles 155mm*
> 186,000 rounds ammunition 40mm*
> 5 armoured engineer vehicles
> 35 load-handling trucks 8x8
> 4000 sleeping bags
> 3 heavy and medium bridge systems*
> 16 self-propelled howitzer Zuzana 2* (joint project with Denmark and Norway)
> 36 ambulances*
> 90 heavy duty trailer trucks*
> 3 air defence system IRIS-T SLM*
> 20 MRAP vehicles DINGO
> 4 tank transporter tractor M1070 Oshkosh*
> 12 communications electronic scanner/jammer systems*
> field hospital (role 2)*
> 20 rocket launchers 70mm on pick-up trucks with 2.000 rockets*
> 2 lift trucks*
> 20 frequency range extensions for anti-drone devices*
> 5 armoured recovery vehicles*
> 8 unmanned surface vessels*
> 14 truck tractor trains and 14 semi-trailers*
> 2 tractors and 4 trailers*
> 22 reconnaissance drones*
> 10 protected vehicles*
> vehicle decontamination system
> 5,032 man-portable anti-tank weapons
> 200 trucks*
> 10 anti-drone sensors and jammers*
> 16 bridge-laying tanks BIBER (BEAVER)*
> 
> The total value of individual licenses issued by the Federal Government for the export of military goods in the period from January 1, 2022 to November 14, 2022 amounts to 1.540.932.933 Euro
> 
> https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992


That’s a very long list. Very nice package. I must say, Ukraine gets really nice things that will make Putin sleepless. However German tanks are still missing on the list.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Ukraine sea drones strike again.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593657952224813058


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594032336198193152


----------



## Deino

BHAN85 said:


> What a stupid thing.
> 
> They are changing Rusian master by Western master. They are not sovereign under Western ruling.
> 
> At least with Russian master common people lived in peace and without starving to death and dying of cold.




Are you just plain stupid or are you a paid Russian troll?
So they freeze to death since the Russians want to deliberate then from the Western hegemony only to live under Russian hegemony?

So, why do they freeze? Not due to the West which did not bomb Ukraine while under Russian dominance but since the Russians do not want to let Ukraine decide under what master they want to live!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594027040486719488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594033341656965120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593922316039323648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593973079314554881


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593978096557838336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594029720731009043

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593992415844700162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594003178994864128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593982672216342528


----------



## The SC

Interesting and surprising news..


----------



## Ali_Baba

Breaking : Massive explosion hits Russian Gazprom gas pipeline​








Explosion hits Russian gas pipeline amid suspicions of sabotage


The fireball was visible for miles in every direction after hitting about 14 miles east of St Petersburg, the nation's second largest city and Putin's hometown.




www.dailymail.co.uk

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

BHAN85 said:


> Mutatis mutandis this is the story of how West deceive Ukraine to trigger a war.
> 
> Offering money for kill Russian speaking people until make Russia reactions strongly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swindlers always acts in the same way with their scams.
> 
> Offering some good in a short term in exchange to a great damage in the long term.
> 
> In the long term West Europe will suffer too the twisted plans of American masters.
> 
> I only hope that dumbfucks like @MeFishToo will be the first enjoying his American masters plans results.


Why dont you just leave Western Europe? I doubt your country and location is true, but why dont you move to Russia and join the choir.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594029720731009043


Russia systematically destroyed everything when forced to leave, and this idiot blames Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

BHAN85 said:


> There are a lot of unanswered questions in that strange incident.
> 
> Why Patriot system didnt work?
> 
> Why a Ukrainian S300 missile goes to Poland?
> 
> Why Poland make a massmedia show if they knew "the truth" since the first moment?
> 
> And so on
> 
> I think maybe Zelensky is not lying, and really he doesnt know what really happened.
> 
> Of course USA must know it, but the lie and deceivement is the hallmark of American empire.
> 
> 
> If you dont have enough money to live without work, then you are a slave.
> 
> So dont worry, slavery exists and it always existed, with different names.


Stop acting like Putin's spokesperson: lies and deceit of every power and aspiring power. Russias are masters and so has most countries. Only some countries can really pull it off )'Global war on terror"), the rest fail.


----------



## aviator_fan

BHAN85 said:


> Yes, Western devil unstabilized Ukraine through bribes to Ukraine elite.
> 
> It's not fault of Ukrainian common people dying of cold.
> 
> It's fault of West, USA, taking advantage of Ukraine corrupt elite using them against Russia.
> 
> And of course is fault of Russia and Iran too.


Not everybody in the world is a coward like you. If they decide to fight for themselves because they choose to be under the NATO yoke than Putin yoke, who are you to judge? Ukranian men have decided to stay and fight and they proved themselves in the first 90 days with pure defensive weapons before earning the right to get offensive. 

Whose fault is it that there 500K less Russians living in the country and the tens of thousands in jail ? Blame that on the bribes too? Russia needs as much military to keep its population in check as it has spare capacity to fight in this war.



Ali_Baba said:


> Breaking : Massive explosion hits Russian Gazprom gas pipeline​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explosion hits Russian gas pipeline amid suspicions of sabotage
> 
> 
> The fireball was visible for miles in every direction after hitting about 14 miles east of St Petersburg, the nation's second largest city and Putin's hometown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Time for Russians to live in the cold.

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## HAIDER

After Kherson withdrawal through US mediation. Now US wants Zelensky to talk with Russia and resolve the problem. US can't pump billions every quarter because the rest of NATO countries chicken out and Russians are prolonging this war.

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## Dalit

US pressures Ukraine to weigh talks with Russia


White House insists the United States is not trying to force Kyiv to hold talks or cede territory.



www.dawn.com





What did I tell you? The US/NATO are now openly pressuring Ukraine into peace talks with Russia. Déjà vu anyone? Ukrainians are the new Kurds. The sacrificial lamb of the US/NATO. That little punk Zelensky has nowhere to go LOL His masters have sealed his pathetic fate.

All the suckers in this topic that have been jumping like headless chickens are now going to squeal. Ukraine will be forced into talks and I will eat my popcorn with full knowledge that I was right all along. Russia annexed important territory and at the end of the day the biggest winner.

Moral of the story, the US/NATO are untrustworthy snakes. They throw their allies under the bus. Never trust US/NATO.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## One_Nation

Mark Milley says the probability of Ukrainians kicking out Russians from the rest of the territory is very low and not happening anytime soon. 
This statement washes out the momentum that Ukraine has built against Russia.

It looks like something big has happened away from public view that have caused Americans to shift their policy. Not a good omen for Ukraine.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, NOVEMBER 19​Nov 19, 2022 - Press ISW






*Kateryna Stepanenko, Grace Mappes, Angela Howard, and Frederick W. Kagan
November 19, 6:30pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces are reportedly beginning to reinforce their positions in occupied Luhansk, Donetsk, and eastern Zaporizhia oblasts with personnel from Kherson Oblast and mobilized servicemen.* The Ukrainian General Staff reported an increase in Russian military personnel in Luhansk City and noted that Russian forces are housing servicemen in abandoned homes in Krasne and Simeikyne about 30km southeast of Luhansk City.[1] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian forces are transferring the remnants of the Russian airborne units from right (west) bank Kherson Oblast to Luhansk Oblast.[2] Luhansk Oblast Military Administration added that a part of redeploying Russian troops is arriving in Novoaidar, approximately 55km east of Severodonetsk.[3] Advisor to Mariupol Mayor Petro Andryushenko also noted the arrival of redeployed personnel and military equipment to Mariupol, stating that Russian forces are placing 10,000 to 15,000 servicemen in the Mariupol Raion.[4] Andryushenko stated that newly mobilized men are deploying to the presumably western Donetsk Oblast frontline via Mariupol. Russian forces are reportedly attempting to disperse forces by deploying some elements in the Hulyaipole direction in eastern Zaporizhia Oblast.[5] Russia will also likely commit additional mobilized forces in the coming weeks, given that mobilized units of the Russian 2nd Motorized Rifle Division of the 1st Tank Army have finished their training in Brest Oblast, Belarus.[6] Russian forces will likely continue to use mobilized and redeployed servicemen to reignite offensive operations in Donetsk Oblast and maintain defensive positions in Luhansk Oblast.
*US intelligence officials stated on November 19 that Russian and Iranian officials finalized a deal in early November to manufacture Iranian drones on Russian territory.*[7] The US officials stated that the deal could allow Russia to “dramatically increase its stockpile” of Iranian drones. The Washington Post reported that Russian forces have launched 400 Iranian kamikaze drones since first using them in the Ukrainian theater in August, and Ukrainian officials have previously stated that Ukrainian forces down 70% of drones before they can strike their targets.[8] The US officials stated that it is unclear what assistance Russia will provide to Iran in return for the drones.[9] The deepening relationship between Russia and Iran, specifically in the provision of long-range munitions such as kamikaze drones and precision missiles, may allow Russian forces to sustain their campaign against Ukrainian energy infrastructure for a longer period than their diminishing stockpile of munitions would otherwise allow. This report also suggests that Russia can somehow circumvent Western sanctions to acquire the microchips needed to program the drones it plans on manufacturing. A Russian milblogger claimed that the deal allows Russian officials to claim they build Russian drones—thus providing an informational win—having previously stated that the domestic manufacturing of Iranian drones on Russian territory humiliates Russia.[10]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces are reportedly beginning to reinforce their positions in occupied Luhansk, Donetsk, and eastern Zaporizhia oblasts with personnel from Kherson Oblast and mobilized servicemen.*
*US intelligence officials stated that Russian and Iranian officials finalized a deal in early November to manufacture Iranian drones on Russian territory.*
*Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations on the Svatove-Kreminna line.*
*Russian forces maintained their offensive operations around Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and west of Donetsk City despite reports of high losses around Bakhmut.*
*Russian forces continued efforts to fortify areas around ground lines of communication in southern Ukraine while struggling with the partial loss of the use of the Kerch Strait Bridge.*
*Russian media sources continued active discussions of an impending second wave of mobilization.*
*The number of Russian prisoners appears to have dropped by about 6.5% since January of 2022 likely due to intensive Wagner Group recruitment.*
*Russian authorities are working to establish control over the information space in occupied territories and identify Ukrainian partisans.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and one supporting effort);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Eastern Kharkiv Oblast-Western Luhansk Oblast)*
Ukrainian forces continued their counteroffensive operations throughout the Svatove-Kreminna line on November 19. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian attacks in the directions of Chervonopopivka (about 6km northwest of Kreminna) and Ploshchanka (about 20km southwest of Svatove).[11] A Russian milblogger noted that Ukrainian forces returned to positional battles following their unsuccessful attempts to assault Russian positions in Chervonopopivka.[12] Luhansk People’s Republic’s (LNR) Deputy Interior Minister Vitaly Kiselev claimed that Russian forces continued to repel Ukrainian attacks in the Kuzemivka area (approximately 13km northwest of Svatove), and a Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian and Russian forces are engaged in the most difficult battles west of Kuzemivka in Novoselivka.[13]The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces shelled settlements along the Svatove-Kreminna frontline.[14]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued their offensive operations around Bakhmut on November 19 despite reports of high losses on the frontline. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults on Bilohorivka and Zelenopillya northeast of Bakhmut and Klishchiivka southwest of Bakhmut.[15] A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces continued to attack Ukrainian positions near Spirne, Verkhnokamianske, and Bilohorivka, all near the T1302 highway.[16] Geolocated footage showed that Russian forces made incremental advances toward Klishchiivka, and other footage indicated that Ukrainian forces maintained their positions near Mayorsk (about 20km southeast of Bakhmut).[17] Russian officials previously claimed control over Mayorsk on November 13.[18] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that about 500 wounded Russian servicemen arrived in Horlivka hospitals from the Mayorsk direction, which suggests that Russian forces are experiencing high casualties on this segment of the frontline.[19] Russian milbloggers, however, claimed that Russian forces seized the southern part of the T0513 highway that starts at Mayorsk.[20]
Russian forces continued to launch assaults west of Donetsk City and around Avdiivka on November 19. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces stopped Russian advances on Vodyane (approximately 8km west of Avdiivka) and Novomykhailivka (about 30km southwest of Donetsk City).[21] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian aviation, artillery, and missile forces struck a Ukrainian command point in Vodyane, and geolocated footage showed Russian forces striking Ukrainian positions in the settlement.[22] Russian sources claimed that Russian forces continued assault operations near Vodyane, Pervomaiske (about 4km northwest of Vodyane), and forced Ukrainian forces from their positions on the outskirts of Nevelske (about 7km southwest of Vodyane).[23] Russian and Ukrainian forces continued to engage in artillery battles southwest of Donetsk City and in eastern Zaporizhia Oblast.[24]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)
Note: ISW will report on activities in Kherson Oblast as part of the Southern Axis in this and subsequent updates. Ukraine’s counteroffensive in right-bank Kherson Oblast has accomplished its stated objectives, so ISW will not present a Southern Ukraine counteroffensive section until Ukrainian forces resume counteroffensives in southern Ukraine.*
Russian forces continued to undertake defensive measures and conduct routine shelling east of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast on November 19. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command stated that Russian forces continue to establish defensive positions east of the Dnipro River and are pulling Russian forces out of the range of Ukrainian artillery.[25] A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces began withdrawing from Oleshky, just south of Kherson City on the left side of the river.[26] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported explosions at Karantynnyy Island, just southwest of Kherson City in the Dnipro River, attributing the explosions to Russian or Ukrainian artillery strikes against a fuel depot.[27] Russian forces may have struck the fuel depot to prevent Ukrainian forces from using it. Russian forces continued shelling areas on the right (west) bank of the Dnipro River, including Kherson City, Antonivka, Kozatske, and Chronobaivka.[28] Russian and Ukrainian forces reported that Ukrainian forces shelled Oleshky and Nova Kakhovka on the left riverbank.[29]
Ukrainian forces continued targeting Russian force concentrations and military assets south of the Dnipro River. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces struck a Russian force concentration area in Mykhailivka, 38km south of Kherson City on the R57 highway, killing 60 personnel and wounding 70 personnel.[30] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian forces struck a Russian force concentration in the Kinburn Spit, killing seven personnel and destroying two armored vehicles.[31]
Russian forces continued efforts to fortify areas around ground lines of communication in southern Ukraine while struggling with the partial loss of the use of the Kerch Strait Bridge. Ukrainian Mayor of Melitopol Ivan Fedorov stated that Russian authorities are forcing civilians to dig trenches and build defenses near Melitopol.[32] Russian sources expressed continued concern that Ukrainian forces are concentrating along the Zaporizhia Oblast front line for a counteroffensive drive toward Melitopol.[33] Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Volodymyr Havrylov stated that Ukrainian forces could enter Crimea by the end of December.[34] Ukrainian Mariupol Mayoral Advisor Petro Andryushchenko stated that Russian forces are struggling to compensate for the loss of the Kerch Strait Bridge and posted footage of a traffic jam of cargo trucks in Mariupol.[35] Russian sources reported that Russian occupation authorities placed replacement spans for the Kerch Strait Bridge and completed the installation of two of those spans; those sources reported that the bridge will be fully operational for vehicle traffic by December 20.[36] However, as ISW has previously reported, the UK Ministry of Defense assessed that the road bridge will not be fully operational until March 2023 and the rail bridge not until September 2023.[37]
Russian forces continued routine shelling west of Hulyaipole and in Mykolaiv and Dnipropetrovsk oblasts on November 19.[38] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck the Motor Sich Plant in Zaporizhzhia City with anti-air missiles and kamikaze drones.[39] Mykolaiv Oblast Head Vitaly Kim stated that Russian forces struck Ochakiv, Mykolaiv Oblast with anti-air missiles.[40] Russian forces conducted artillery and MLRS strikes against Nikopol and Marhanets, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.[41]



*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
The number of Russian prisoners dropped by about 6.5% since January of 2022 (not including those held in pre-trial detention centers and remanded prisoners), apparently due to intensive Wagner Group recruitment.[42] ISW has extensively reported on Wagner Group's recruitment of prisoners and use of prisoners on the front lines in Ukraine.[43] Russian investigative outlet _Mediazona _reported on November 18 that the number of male prisoners in Russia has decreased by 23,000 since the start of the Wagner Group’s prison-based recruitment campaigns.[44] This is the sharpest decrease in the Russian prison population since 2014, including during periods of amnesty.[45] _Mediazona _reported that the number of Russians in pre-trial detention centers and prison colonies stayed relatively constant, which suggests that the decrease in the number of prisoners is not due to decreased rates of arrest.[46]
Russian media sources continued active discussions of an impending second wave of mobilization on November 19. Russian sources amplified reports of a woman being issued permission to travel abroad until December 31 in order to return for her husband’s mobilization summons on January 16.[47] Russian sources also reported the launch of basic military training courses in Barnaul, Siberia, to ensure that those impacted by mobilization receive “all the necessary skills.” A prominent Russian Telegram channel refuted statements from Ukrainian sources that Russia will likely conduct general mobilization after the New Year’s holiday, arguing that Russia does not have the equipment, trainers, or bureaucratic structure required to provide for hypothetical newly mobilized soldiers.[48] The channel contended that Russian authorities might conduct a future partial mobilization, but the Ministry of Defense (MoD) would only mobilize 100-200,000 men at a time. The channel claimed Russia needs to mobilize 1-1.5 million total soldiers to defeat Ukrainian forces.[49] Previous ISW analyses support the assessment that the Russian MoD does not have the capacity or resources to handle a future general mobilization.[50] Widespread reports of mobilized soldiers being required to purchase their own equipment, sleeping outside or in tents without heat while still on training grounds, receiving no or woefully inadequate training, and experiencing other poor conditions suggest the Russian MoD is unprepared to handle future rounds of partial mobilization or even provide for those currently mobilized.[51]
The Kremlin continues to selectively respond to public mobilization complaints while continuing to commit poorly trained mobilized men to the frontlines. The Russian Armed Forces relocated 130 mobilized men from Vladimir Oblast from the frontlines to the rear areas following Vladimir Oblast Governor Alexander Avdeev’s appeal to the Russian MoD regarding the deployment of poorly trained personnel to the frontlines.[52] Avdeev noted that over 1,000 mobilized servicemen from his constituency still serve on the frontlines, and relatives of the Vladimir Oblast mobilized men recorded a third video appeal addressed to Russian President Vladimir Putin regarding their lack of adequate training.[53] Mobilized men from Voronezh Oblast who were removed from the frontlines following a public appeal by their relatives were redeployed to frontlines in Luhansk Oblast.[54]
Russian military officials continued covert mobilization. A Russian news channel reported that a Russian military commissariat issued a mobilization summons for November 21 to a man called in to clarify data. The resources spent on covert mobilization coupled with Russia’s ongoing fall conscription wave further degrades the ability of the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) to prepare for future waves of mobilization, as ISW reported on November 18.[55]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Russian media is amplifying narratives that criminals in Russian military uniforms are terrorizing and looting local populations in occupied Ukraine. A prominent Russian news source claimed that Russian military officials in Oleshky, Kherson Oblast detained several criminals dressed in Russian uniforms while robbing civilians and making plans to kill and steal from Russian soldiers.[56] The source published an interview between a Russian commander and the detainees in which the detainees claimed that Ukrainian authorities released them from prison and left them without any resources.[57] It is unclear whether Russian efforts to amplify this narrative are a part of efforts to minimize reports of Russian looting and abuse of civilians.
Russian authorities are working to establish control over the information space in occupied territories. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on November 19 that Russian authorities are dispatching propagandists to occupied territories to organize TV broadcasts and launch branches of the All-Russian State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VDTRK).[58] Occupation authorities plan to use seized broadcasting property to facilitate broadcasting, including the 196-meter TV towers in Mariupol and Melitopol. Occupation authorities reportedly planned to coopt local media specialists as well but chose to import Russian personnel when Ukrainian media specialists refused to cooperate with occupation regimes.[59]
Russian occupation authorities continue efforts to identify Ukrainian partisans. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on November 19 that the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) created groups with counterintelligence specialists and representatives from other Russian security services and charged them with seeking out Ukrainian partisan groups, including using internet-traffic analysis.[60] The Ukrainian Resistance Center noted that this strategy mirrors Russian approaches used in Syria.[61]
Occupation authorities continue to struggle to link basic infrastructure in occupied territories to Russian systems. Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Denis Pushilin announced on November 19 that occupation authorities will supply occupied eastern Ukraine with water via a to-be-constructed conduit from the Don River.[62] A prominent Russian milblogger also criticized occupation authorities in Kherson Oblast for the failure to link Russian railway infrastructure to Kherson City during eight months of occupation whereas Ukrainian officials reestablished the Ukrainian railway connection within ten days of recapturing the city.[63][64]
*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update.* 
[1] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02UfZm2YoP6CveLQ3uBN...
[2] https://****/serhiy_hayday/8669; https://****/luhanskaVTSA/6953; https...
[3] https://****/luhanskaVTSA/6948
[4] https://****/andriyshTime/4462
[5] https://****/andriyshTime/4462
[6] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02UfZm2YoP6CveLQ3uBN...
[7] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/19/russia-iran-...
[8] https://www dot pravda.com.ua/articles/2022/10/24/7373160/; https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/19/russia-iran-...
[9] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/19/russia-iran-...
[10] https://****/m0sc0wcalling/14747; https://****/m0sc0wcalling/14221; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[11] https://****/mod_russia/21870 
[12] https://****/rybar/41314 
[13] https://****/wargonzo/9330
[14] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02UfZm2YoP6CveLQ3uBN...
[15] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0XGH2CgsdWbxwRyidcjn...
[16] https://****/wargonzo/9330
[17] https://twitter.com/am_misfit/status/1593870037081022465; https://twitt...
[18] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***... https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[19] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0XGH2CgsdWbxwRyidcjn...
[20] https://****/rlz_the_kraken/54333; https://****/akimapachev/3356
[21] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0XGH2CgsdWbxwRyidcjn...
[22]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593990454172860416https://****/rian_ru/186067; https://****/mod_russia/21870
[23] https://****/wargonzo/9330; https://****/milchronicles/1318
[24] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0XGH2CgsdWbxwRyidcjn...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593898485509951488[25]




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1516222982180298




[26] https://****/RSaponkov/4008; https://****/voenacher/33700
[27] https://****/hueviyherson/29389; https://****/hueviyherson/29390; https://****/hueviyherson/29386; https://****/rybar/41322 . https://****/voenkorKotenok/42862; https://****/m0sc0wcalling/14746; https://****/m0sc0wcalling/14744; https://****/milinfolive/93564
[28] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02UfZm2YoP6CveLQ3uBN... https://****/hueviyherson/29384 
[29] https://****/wargonzo/9330; https://****/rybar/41312; https://****/wargonzo/9330;




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1516222982180298




[30] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02UfZm2YoP6CveLQ3uBN... https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0XGH2CgsdWbxwRyidcjn...
[31] https://www.facebook.com/okPivden/posts/pfbid02mzWwbVsVwxGsD27pMxNjTKSyW...
[32] https://****/ivan_fedorov_melitopol/901
[33] https://****/rybar/41315 
[34] https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-will-be-over-by-spring-predicts-c...
[35] https://****/andriyshTime/4464
[36] https://****/Mintrans_Russia/804; https://****/boris_rozhin/70767; https://****/sashakots/37251; https://****/truekpru/98914; https://****/readovkanews/47265 
[37] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[38] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02UfZm2YoP6CveLQ3uBN... https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0XGH2CgsdWbxwRyidcjn... https://****/rybar/41312 
[39] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0XGH2CgsdWbxwRyidcjn... https://****/zoda_gov_ua/14819; https://****/starukhofficial/4235; https://****/kommunist/13361 ; https://****/kommunist/13358; https://****/boris_rozhin/70742; https://****/voenkorKotenok/42855; https://****/rybar/41312; https://****/boris_rozhin/70717
[40] https://****/mykolaivskaODA/3510
[41] https://****/rybar/41312
[42] https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/russian-federation;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593682496771727361 https://zona [dot] media/article/2022/11/18/navoynu; https://meduza dot io/news/2022/11/18/mediazona-chislo-zaklyuchennyh-v-rossiyskih-koloniyah-za-dva-mesyatsa-sokratilos-na-rekordnye-23-tysyachi-chelovek
[43]https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Russian%20Offensive...
[44]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593682496771727361 https://zona [dot] media/article/2022/11/18/navoynu; https://meduza dot io/news/2022/11/18/mediazona-chislo-zaklyuchennyh-v-rossiyskih-koloniyah-za-dva-mesyatsa-sokratilos-na-rekordnye-23-tysyachi-chelovek
[45] https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1593682496771727361 https://zona [dot] media/article/2022/11/18/navoynu; https://meduza dot io/news/2022/11/18/mediazona-chislo-zaklyuchennyh-v-rossiyskih-koloniyah-za-dva-mesyatsa-sokratilos-na-rekordnye-23-tysyachi-chelovek
[46] https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1593682496771727361 https://zona [dot] media/article/2022/11/18/navoynu; https://meduza dot io/news/2022/11/18/mediazona-chislo-zaklyuchennyh-v-rossiyskih-koloniyah-za-dva-mesyatsa-sokratilos-na-rekordnye-23-tysyachi-chelovek
[47] https://****/pogranichnyi_control/1246; https://notes dot citeam.org/mobilization-nov-17-18
[48] https://****/notes_veterans/6672
[49] https://****/notes_veterans/6672
[50] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[51] https://****/ostorozhno_novosti/12738; https://notes dot citeam.org/mobilization-nov-17-18; https://****/bazabazon/14526; https://****/readovkanews/47261; https:/... citeam.org/mobilization-nov-17-18; https://****/dovod3/7177 
[52] https://tass dot ru/armiya-i-opk/16362643
[53] https://notes dot citeam.org/mobilization-nov-17-18; https://****/dovod3/7177
[54] https://notes dot citeam.org/mobilization-nov-17-18; https://****/tvrain/60001
[55] https://****/mobilizationnews/4233
[56] https://****/readovkanews/47266
[57] https://****/readovkanews/47266
[58] https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/11/19/okupanty-zvozyat-na-tot-svoyih-propagandystiv-dlya-organizacziyi-movlennya-oseredkiv-svogo-telebachennya/
[59] https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/11/19/okupanty-zvozyat-na-tot-svoyih-propagandystiv-dlya-organizacziyi-movlennya-oseredkiv-svogo-telebachennya/
[60] https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/11/19/fsb-stvorylo-speczialni-grupy-z-poshuku-chleniv-ukrayinskogo-pidpillya/
[61] https://sprotyv dot mod.gov.ua/2022/11/19/fsb-stvorylo-speczialni-grupy-z-poshuku-chleniv-ukrayinskogo-pidpillya/
[62] https://****/pushilindenis/2915
[63] https://****/m0sc0wcalling/14722
[64] https://****/m0sc0wcalling/14722


Tags​Ukraine Project
File Attachments: 



DraftUkraineCoTNovember19,2022.png



Donetsk Battle Map November 19,2022.png



Kharkiv Battle Map November 19,2022.png



Kherson-Mykolaiv Battle Map November 19,2022.png

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## Beny Karachun

BHAN85 said:


> What a stupid thing.
> 
> They are changing Rusian master by Western master. They are not sovereign under Western ruling.
> 
> At least with Russian master common people lived in peace and without starving to death and dying of cold.


Lol, with the Russian master tens of billions of their tax dollars were stolen, that's why they kicked out their last president, and then that's why Russia took Crimea in 2014. For them, it's worth it, they are gladly living in the cold in order to get rid of the Russians.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Mostly because it just dawn on them
> 
> "Shit just got real"
> 
> 
> If this is what NATO would do, they will most likely just send ATACAMS to Ukraine and have them go nuts on the Russian.
> 
> If NATO are to get involved. That would be a decapitated strike, you won't let Russia get back up and keep the fighting on going. If NATO were to strike, NATO playbook (at least in 2000s) a massive strike package against 60-100% of Russian target in Ukraine. That would have involved a large number of aircraft and a large amount of sortie.
> 
> But as I said, I don't really see this is going to go down like that. Really depends on what the NATO investigation found.


in another post as I have mentioned that just the presence of the ATACMS will send shivers on the Russians. They will have to pull their aircraft out of occupied Ukraine from and put them afar.


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## Oldman1

BHAN85 said:


> Yes, Western devil unstabilized Ukraine through bribes to Ukraine elite.
> 
> It's not fault of Ukrainian common people dying of cold.
> 
> It's fault of West, USA, taking advantage of Ukraine corrupt elite using them against Russia.
> 
> And of course is fault of Russia and Iran too.


Dying of cold? More like the Russian troops are dying of cold. You think cutting the power would force the Ukrainians to surrender? It doesn't take much to adapt to the cold. Put some extra clothes on like sweat pants and a hoodie or sweater to keep warm. Can't cook food without power? Use indoor portable cooking stove with a vent to safely cook with no power. No lights, use oil lamps or lanterns, LED lanterns, or even candles for light. No power to the fridge, you got natural fridge right outside. Put food on balconies or on window sills, or if they have a stand alone house, put it in their backyard or something. The rest of Europe can provide generators, clothing and aid for the winter. 

@jhungary 

Since you were there, maybe you can give a little insight into Ukrainian peoples' mindset during the war. You think they surrender because its a little bit cold?



Beny Karachun said:


> Lol, with the Russian master tens of billions of their tax dollars were stolen, that's why they kicked out their last president, and then that's why Russia took Crimea in 2014. For them, it's worth it, they are gladly living in the cold in order to get rid of the Russians.










Hence why the Ukrainians threw him out.


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## Oldman1

@jhungary

Just found this in an Iranian military forum about Czech Republic providing anti air ZSU 23 truck. They are having a laugh about it. I think its smart and not obsolete if integrated with EO system for day and night. Maybe even put it on a bigger truck and combine it with Vampire system with seen on a separate truck. 













So integrate and put both of those systems into this type of vehicle or some version of it. Be cheap and effective against loitering/kamikaze drones and cruise missiles and can use them for defending critical infrastructures or use on the frontlines.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> in another post as I have mentioned that just the presence of the ATACMS will send shivers on the Russians. They will have to pull their aircraft out of occupied Ukraine from and put them afar.


There are several report floating around within the US intelligence community stating that ATACAMS are already provided to Ukraine via Turkey or Romania and indirectly by the US.

The reason why the Russian hollow out their airbase even as far as Crimea is a testament of something they scare of, and I don't think there are anything other than SF group can reach that far other than ATACAMS

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Dying of cold? More like the Russian troops are dying of cold. You think cutting the power would force the Ukrainians to surrender? It doesn't take much to adapt to the cold. Put some extra clothes on like sweat pants and a hoodie or sweater to keep warm. Can't cook food without power? Use indoor portable cooking stove with a vent to safely cook with no power. No lights, use oil lamps or lanterns, LED lanterns, or even candles for light. No power to the fridge, you got natural fridge right outside. Put food on balconies or on window sills, or if they have a stand alone house, put it in their backyard or something. The rest of Europe can provide generators, clothing and aid for the winter.
> 
> @jhungary
> 
> Since you were there, maybe you can give a little insight into Ukrainian peoples' mindset during the war. You think they surrender because its a little bit cold?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hence why the Ukrainians threw him out.


You don't need to go there to know they are serious are the Ukrainian. 

around 30 million of Ukrainian was offered a way-out including Zelenskyy back in Feb this year, only 10 million left, and about 1/3 had returned. I mean, back then they don't even know if Kyiv are going to get overran. If you are okay to live in a warzone, in the cold no less (Feb still cold in Ukraine) do you think you will leave if it's now only the cold but no war to be seen?? 

People want to leave had left already, I mean those people who stay are quite diehard. They don't get zapped just because Russia keep bombing their electricity grid. On the other hand, if push comes to shove, they can evacuate the entire Eastern Ukraine and keep them in western part, there are 3 nuclear plants generating enough power to power half the Ukraine which mean those amendity are almost certainly guaranteed.

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## Dalit

LOL nice.



https://www.nst.com.my/world/world/2022/11/852940/negotiating-moscow-would-be-capitulation-ukraine-presidency



KYIV: The West's attempts to persuade Ukraine to negotiate with Moscow, after a series of major military victories by Kiev, are "bizarre" and amount to asking for its capitulation, a key adviser to the Ukrainian presidency said

Iran will help Russia build drones for Ukraine war, Western officials say

Moscow and Tehran are said to agree on a plan to assemble Iranian-designed weapons on Russian soil



https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/19/russia-iran-drones-secret-deal/

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> LOL nice.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nst.com.my/world/world/2022/11/852940/negotiating-moscow-would-be-capitulation-ukraine-presidency
> 
> 
> 
> KYIV: The West's attempts to persuade Ukraine to negotiate with Moscow, after a series of major military victories by Kiev, are "bizarre" and amount to asking for its capitulation, a key adviser to the Ukrainian presidency said
> 
> Iran will help Russia build drones for Ukraine war, Western officials say
> 
> Moscow and Tehran are said to agree on a plan to assemble Iranian-designed weapons on Russian soil
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/19/russia-iran-drones-secret-deal/


Negotiation sounds good, however not the right time yet. Ukraine is on offensives on multiple fronts. Halting the offensives only benefit Russia invasion army. Putin will use the truce to recruit more mobis, the Wagners will recruit more rapists and hooligans from prisons.

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## A.P. Richelieu

HAIDER said:


> After Kherson withdrawal through US mediation. Now US wants Zelensky to talk with Russia and resolve the problem. US can't pump billions every quarter because the rest of NATO countries chicken out and Russians are prolonging this war.


Can you name one thing that provides better return on investment in a US defense budget than supporting Ukraine, which is decimating the Russians?

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## Michel Niesten

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Can you name one thing that provides better return on investment in a US defense budget than supporting Ukraine, which is decimating the Russians?


Those billions the USA spends don’t end up in Ukraine. The weapons end up in Ukraine, the money goes to the US arms industries. Old stocks send to Ukraine, replenishments bought in USA. So yes, the value goes to Ukraine, but the money ends up in US pockets.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Michel Niesten said:


> Those billions the USA spends don’t end up in Ukraine. The weapons end up in Ukraine, the money goes to the US arms industries. Old stocks send to Ukraine, replenishments bought in USA. So yes, the value goes to Ukraine, but the money ends up in US pockets.


Which is unimportant, since it is the weapons in the hands of the Ukrainans that reduce Russia.
Why do You comment my statement, when it is totally unrelated?


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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Negotiation sounds good, however not the right time yet. Ukraine is on offensives on multiple fronts. Halting the offensives only benefit Russia invasion army. Putin will use the truce to recruit more mobis, the Wagners will recruit more rapists and hooligans from prisons.



They can talk - but Military operations do not need to stop for talks.

Russian's are playing for time. It is stalling for time. In the meantime, it will train its mobilised forces, find additional weapons, bring in new supplies and fortify its positions etc.

The American's will know this - and they may push Ukraine for talks but i suspect they wont tell the Ukranians to stop their operations while talks are on...

Winter is here - Russia's position is not that comfortable - and the war will be static for next few weeks due to weather - so there is no real downside to talks in parallel to ongoing operations.

Ukraine needs to rebuild some of her ammunition infrastructure so that the operations can carry on for longer and she must get her own suicide drones build asap. This was will become harder for Russia to sustain if Putin all of a sudden has to explain why night time looks like daytime in central Moscow when the drone start appearing and blowing up shit..

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> They can talk - but Military operations do not need to stop for talks.
> 
> Russian's are playing for time. It is stalling for time. In the meantime, it will train its mobilised forces, find additional weapons, bring in new supplies and fortify its positions etc.
> 
> The American's will know this - and they may push Ukraine for talks but i suspect they wont tell the Ukranians to stop their operations while talks are on...
> 
> Winter is here - Russia's position is not that comfortable - and the war will be static for next few weeks due to weather - so there is no real downside to talks in parallel to ongoing operations.
> 
> Ukraine needs to rebuild some of her ammunition infrastructure so that the operations can carry on for longer and she must get her own suicide drones build asap. This was will become harder for Russia to sustain if Putin all of a sudden has to explain why night time looks like daytime in central Moscow when the drone start appearing and blowing up shit..


from all assessments it makes lttle sense to go to negotiation table now. Ukraine is on the move, while Russia army retreating or regrouping as they said it.
the winter is harsh for both sides. however Ukraine is on the offensive. the speed is everything.
the winter will freeze and hardening the ground that will make Ukraine mechanized corps easier to move forwards. also, the winter will make trees leafless, which will make russian troops more difficult to hide.
Don´t forget the new russian mobis will pose a threat in spring when they are ready.

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594148602548342785

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594020742592532480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594023612020924416

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594313680145256451

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594310794119974914
Russians keep throwing cannon fodders in Bakhmut waves after waves....



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594279065544187904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594119995310628865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594032575810801665


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## mike2000 is back

Vergennes said:


> LMAO even Russian military analysts are realizing how much their situation in Ukraine is fcked up but you still have the usual bootlickers full on copium telling us how Russia will conduct biltzkrieg and other fairy tales.


Don't mind that Iranian Russian wannabe. Some of them even bootlick Russia more than Russians themselves 🤣

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## mike2000 is back

jhungary said:


> And the fact that Russia have to buy sub-par munition from North Korea says a lot on their ready to use stock. Russia is hurting badly in this war militarily, they just don't tell anyone about it.


Yes, it's very telling that China still refused to sell any military equipment to Russia contrary to Iran and North Korea who are the only 2 countries to have provided military sales to Russia. Seems even the Chinese are against Putins blatant unprovoked military invasion of a sovereign country like Ukraine. Have to commend the Chinese for this at least.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594296957849468929


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594319631816294400
Here's a photo of the Russian S300 radar decoy that the Russians claimed it was Ukrainian and was destroyed in a lancet attack that was posted few days ago.... Russians lie as they breath.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594181565671739392


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592191728039395328

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## Gomig-21

Vergennes said:


> Russians keep throwing cannon fodders in Bakhmut waves after waves....



On the first clip of tweet with the guy criticizing the "lack of learning" and still moving lone tanks in open fields has been the major criticism for a long time. Problem is many don't realize that much of the terrain in eastern Ukraine is largely open fields just like that. I heard something like 70% or about. If they're carrying operations in those areas, they have to choose using the brushes as close cover where they've been heavily mined or easily ambushed by hiding infantry with ATGMs.

Also this time of year is very similar to what the Germans went through with Operation Barbarossa and starting at an interesting time of year as when the fall breaks, there are frequent freeze & thaws which causes nothing but mud slush for all those heavy tanks and support vehicles to simple sink into the created roads. Many of those are certainly not paved and solid lol. So in many cases, they really don't have much of a choice but to take the most dangerous path and hope to make it through.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594376847579570188

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## alimobin memon

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594376847579570188


Imagine after ukraine is completely taken back from russians. The war goes in russian land. What if it is really an end to Russian myth of mighty country

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## Paul2

AFU seem to be on the move again near Svatovo
First UK trained Ukrainian units are coming back
UA is sending units from Kherson further east, with at least 1 going near Bakhmut
RUAF relocated 1 brigade of new regulars east of Bakhmut
RU 49th army seem to be turning into a sponge for reconstituted, and damaged units. Reports of some of its units being relocated as far back as Marioupol.
It sems to me they are trying to reconstitute their reserve around the 49th army, or whatever of its units they sent back from the frontline.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594347049427865603


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594140886228602880

It looks like all of the propaganda waged by some in this forum and in other platforms are getting busted by US Joint Chiefs Chairman General Milley. 

It is also evident that the West worries about the expected offensive from Russia during the winter.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594399129249120257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594389451085467648

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594302624483926016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594006877914161152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594264679974637568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594285706741956610


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594142252644851713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594142843924258816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594143759473803265


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594405220096045056

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## ziaulislam

LeGenD said:


> Russia contemplated the possibility of using tactical nukes or dirty bombs in Ukraine. But US informed Putin that *it* will intervene and finish the job of destroying Russian forces stationed inside Ukraine and around Ukraine in response.
> 
> Putin realized the stakes and shot down the proposal.
> 
> Russians are found to be pragmatic when it comes to nuclear option. They do not want to go this far in clashes involving NATO. Good for mankind.
> 
> Russians have won wars before. But there is no guarantee that they will succeed in every front that they might choose to open.
> 
> Wars suck, bro. Unfortunately, crackheads pop up from time to time and ruin many lives with bad decisions.


I would be surprised that Europe signs on this operation

A direct attack on Russian forces with that extent will 100% mean a nuclear retilation. 

There is no Middle ground there.anyone who thinks like this is fool and USA forces aren't idiots 

There is no



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594405220096045056


Doubt it.
Issue isn't Russia need a technology

Problem is it can't manufacturer them due to cost and manpower


This probably just a proxy to keep Iran out of it. 

The supplies will come from iran

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594399129249120257
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594389451085467648





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594288153061658626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594262268556021760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593981233066921987


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594140886228602880
> 
> It looks like all of the propaganda waged by some in this forum and in other platforms are getting busted by US Joint Chiefs Chairman General Milley.
> 
> It is also evident that the West worries about the expected offensive from Russia during the winter.


Evident how? Please inform us on this upcoming russian winter blitzkrieg!

Is it going to be as succesfull as the bakhmur offensive these last months? 
Or as succesfull as all those “pockets” you were seeing everywhere?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594382889377882112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594336772154163202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594319038360043526

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594389750781136896


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594405819688296449

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## Gomig-21

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594142252644851713



EDIT: Sorry I got the wrong video. I thought the one you posted was the one I was referring to below but it wasn't. I'll find the correct one and re-edit it into here.

Here it is; Retired Colonel Douglas McGregor who like I said is no slouch lol. This is a retired top US military personnel and the stuff he talks about is so candid and straight to the point and honestly in some areas favors Ukraine, but in large part, the Russians are doing some stuff that almost no one is talking about and many of the other things he says are truly incredible.






He said some incredible stuff. I watched the entire interview which I rarely spend an hour on something like this with so much from both sides that you don't know who's telling the truth. But when you hear someone like this guy, who is hardly a slouch, but an ex-US colonel come out and not even be shy about the numbers and tell it like it is according to him, it was gripping.

Besides the death tolls and the limited numbers of fighting units in the Ukrainian army and they're having excellent success is a lot in part because of these obviously deliberate retreats by Russia. But what got me the most is when he said the HIMARs are all operated by US personnel. Did you hear that part? He said that to become efficient enough to use that system which is designed to only be operated by 2 personnel, you need something like 6 months full training and then join an already operating unit to learn in field and because there are only 2 personnel operating that system, the one driving the unit alone has 1100 tasks LOL! I just about fell out of my chair when I heard him say that.

So hearing him talk about all the territories and the equipment and the numbers in amazing clarity and detail and be very partial to the Russian position despite where they were 3 months ago and now is not something those in the experienced military understand. They see the numbers and positions in a certain way and they can easily combine and assess the outlook of what it would take to even get into a good position for negotiations and he sees none of that. I thought this was probably the most fascinating talk about this war coming from one of the recent top retired US generals.

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## Beny Karachun

ng3ng4 said:


> https://****/Slavyangrad/21291 😡😡😡 😡😡😡⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦🏴‍☠️ How Ukrainian media justify the Execution of Russian Fighters in #Makeyevka⚡️
> 
> After footage of the killing of Russian prisoners of war in #Makeyevka, LPR appeared on the web, see 👉 here, Kiev launched a media campaign to justify the crimes of the AFU. For this purpose, a certain Thomas Tyner, calling himself an ex-serviceman of the Italian army, an expert on artillery and NATO, was brought in.
> 
> In a commentary to the Ukrainian media, he said that the AFU had actually been forced to shoot Russian Armed Forces fighters because one of them refused to surrender and showed up with a weapon. Members of the Ukrainian formations then allegedly automatically opened fire on the remaining unarmed prisoners lying on the ground, suspecting them of resistance.
> 
> 🔻 There is just one small detail: the video from the murder scene clearly shows that the blood and bullet hits on all the bodies are in the head area. This means that each one was killed in turn by a targeted shot in a calm environment, which completely rules out the version of a spontaneous shooting.
> 
> The "expert" called by the Ukrainian media did not explain this uncomfortable fact. That is not surprising, because the incident is clearly beyond his competence: although Tyner positions himself as a military specialist, in early publications of Western publications he is for some reason listed only as a film producer, blogger or screenwriter.
> 
> While the Kiev media, albeit extremely ineptly, attempted to justify the extrajudicial execution, the Ukrainian armed forces reacted more simply: they recalled an unspoken internal order not to be caught red-handed killing prisoners. Which, incidentally, appeared back in the spring.
> 
> In these circumstances, it is somewhat reckless to expect Ukrainian formations to hint at humane treatment of prisoners who have surrendered.
> 
> ****/sitreports /@rybar/
> Join SITREP🔺Map Reports - Top Videos - Analyses
> [21/11, 12:07] Shanlung: David Doran:
> I assume the "expert" didnt explain the LMG trained on the Russia soldiers?
> 
> Helio:
> Yeah most likely the guy firing around the corner was a fake and just used as failed justification
> 
> David Doran:
> Yes....it was a planned, contrived massacre.
> 
> Helio:
> RF should put everyone trying to lend credibility to this event on a hit list
> 
> Your_Dad:
> Filthy Scums,
> Even if their story is true that one Russian soilder resisted, then he should be shot, how the **** you would suspect those 9 POWs who were unarmed, lying on floor with their hands on the back of their head against a full fledged armed group of soilders to be dangerous??
> How the **** they are dangerous? And how much damage could they cause? With their bare hands.
> 
> They all think we all are stupid idiots who will buy this shit you are explaining.
> 
> There is only punishment of that deed and that is brutal death and you all will pay and you all will regret.
> 
> They give us stupid explanation which no man would buy it until he is one of the worst idiots in the world.
> 
> Whole world is condemning and despising such evil act,
> 
> they lie about those execution ,they lie about missile attacks in Poland, lie about everything and they want us and everyone to believe the staged act in butcha, I have suspecion that they would have killed their own citezens just to frame a masscare and make Russia look evil.
> 
> Paul Rch:
> Their justification is their incompetence as soldiers and lack of something very very important for a true soldier and man, BE A MAN and as a soldier have the capacity to distinguish between a combatant and a soldier who surrender.
> 
> Your_Dad:
> They are only capable of doing some easy kills.
> Killing Unarmed and helpless soilders, civilians is all what they can do at all.
> 
> They flee when Russian troops start attacking them, fucking cowards😌
> 
> Paul Rch:
> Of course. It easy be a great soldier when they had unarmed soldiers in their front. Bastards.
> 
> Anthony:
> In other words, the directive said, "You can murder your prisoners, but don't film it."
> 
> Geovanni Quiñonez:
> That's plain and simple homicide
> 
> Nyamagormi:
> When Russia catches any Azov soldier(s), they should be lined up on the ground and use a tank to work on their legs. They should then be left to die in an agonising manner
> 
> Stephen Dyer:
> No, simply put none of the Nazi elements should be caught
> 
> No quarter to any of them.
> 
> Alan Koester:
> But even more significant, they now admit the Russian POW's were shot and not killed by an artillery strike, and furthermore, they were shot by Ukrainian soldiers, albeit for the obviously rubbish exculpatory reasons they gave. Fact is, the footage is confirmed by their admission.
> 
> Stevan:
> This video angered me beyond belief. I m still mad 🤬 Fkn ukronazis. Poor soldiers and their families. I really hope Russians find these pigs. Everything is already known, names, which unit they belong to etc.
> 
> S.A.:
> This is so lowlife sad there are no words. Surrendering only to be shot like a jew in ww2 by ss nazi dogs.
> 
> 
> https://****/Slavyangrad/21298 😡😡😡🖕🖕🖕💩💩💩Slavyangrad:
> Look at this. Captured Ru civilian by the Ukros
> 
> Country 404, should cease to exist as a state.
> 
> Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
> https://****/+PUg0rQrZdiw4YWFh
> Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community
> 
> 👆👆👆 Of course, country 404 plebs and supporters will find this extremely funny. I can imagine that they will bury him alive...PsychosJallow Mamadou Alpha:
> Horrible
> 
> Ray:
> Depraved satanists ... 😡
> 
> Миша Бурый:
> He says: This is an orc in its original packaging! is the bitch still alive? Alive, close it
> 
> Марко | Z:
> looks like a comment of a virgin who opens Telegram first time since the start of SMO and has no clue whatsoever about the atrocities filmed by ukrainian insects
> 
> Anu Media:
> Never under estimate the depravity of NATO brainwashing on the subjected public. The Ukrainian zealot nationalist is manufactured by the USA/UK and NATO. Abolish NATO and sink the UK!
> 
> Миша Бурый:
> When these bastards feel their impunity and the support of the whole of Europe and America in their crimes, they don't care what kind of video to shoot and they are not afraid to publish it.
> 
> James W:
> /report
> Ukrop propagandist stating blatant lies. Ukrops film themselves doing war crimes all the time
> 
> Everyone has seen how proud Ukrops are of their war crimes. They are not bashful or ashamed. Saying they are all fake is just retarded and outs user Mk as a propagandist or simply an idiot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That the kind of rubbish make belief garbage from Whitehouse and NATO to demonise Russia to make themselves (Whitehouse NATO) appear to be angels of purity.
> 
> When in fact calling Whitehouse NATO to be devils and demons will be to disparage devils and demons


An invading force that started an unnecessary war that has brought the death of tens of thousands of civilians is crying about the execution of soldiers from the LPR, the people that began all of the conflict in 2014? 

Cope

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## Battlion25

I am hearing rumors that keep coming back again and again online that aside from the international legion which is rumored to be around 100.000 forces legion that is entirely made of foreigners there is another legion which is basically the Polish armed forces.

I have been hearing this rumor that since the summer that poland deployed their armed forces as volunteers and not to confuse them with the international legion. I am also hearing since the Russians attacked Poland itself few days ago the polish forces are refusing to join the Donbass offensive. They are also credited for the Kharkiv retake offensive behind closed doors..

I remember reading an article that came out early in the campaign saying they will use Pakistan as the blueprint on how to defeat Russia. They are creating illusions like deploying the polish armed forces like ghosts mixing truth and falsehood etc etc creating massive disinformation where you don't know what is what.. The Polish armed forces are fighting there but they can claim deniablitity etc etc creating illusions.

Russia's intelligence is really not upto date in this war because they don't know who is who on the Ukraine side as the international volunteers the polish armed forces have been on the ground for months now. Duda is trying to keep the war there at all costs..







Sooner or later the Russian intelligence will unravel files and understand to the extent Duda is actully involved in this war. I also believe that missile was a warning to duda and it was not from Ukrainian S-300 but the Russians themselves who know about the Polish forces in Donbass.

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## Shawnee

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594378676912943104

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## Paul2

Battlion25 said:


> I am hearing rumors that keep coming back again and again online that aside from the international legion which is rumored to be around 100.000 forces legion that is entirely made of foreigners there is another legion which is basically the Polish armed forces.



Lol, the legion was at most 12000-13000 at its peak, with around 5000 bailing out in first months of war, or deemed unfit for service.

The biggest part are Georgians, and French ex-Foreign-Legion, then Americans, Poles, and Chechenians.

There are, maybe, 8000-10000 regular foreign well-wishers, distributing aid, helping civilians, fixing equipment, doing medevac, etc, but they don't take formal membership in any unit.

So, at most, there are 5000 people who know how to fight as proper light infantry.

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## Battlion25

Paul2 said:


> Lol, the legion was at most 12000-13000 at its peak, with around 5000 bailing out in first months of war, or deemed unfit for service.
> 
> The biggest part are Georgians, and French ex-Foreign-Legion, then Americans, Poles, and Chechenians.
> 
> There are, maybe, 8000-10000 regular foreign well-wishers, distributing aid, helping civilians, doing medevac, etc, but they don't take formal membership in any unit.



Distributing aid? Get outta here with that bro. There is literally videos of the International legion fighting in the east and they are way more then 10k.. They have 20.000 listed but the actual numbers is higher then what they have listed..

As for the Polish armed forces being embedded it is only rumors at this point until there is proper intelligence carried out there

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## Paul2

Battlion25 said:


> Distributing aid? Got outta with that bro. There is literally videos of the International legion fighting in east and they are way more then 10k.. They have 20.000 listed but the numbers are actual is higher then what they have listed..
> 
> As for the Polish armed forces being embedded it is only rumors at this point until there is proper intelligence carried out there



Yes, there was enough troops for 2.5 battalions back in March-April, and they were thrown into Severo in the summer, where they fought well.

3000-4000 of motivated crack troops with specific light infantry training is still hell of a force.

P.S. they do not take anybody from a "red" country, even if they profess their anti-communist views.


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## Battlion25

Paul2 said:


> Yes, there was enough troops for 2.5 battalions back in March-April, and they were thrown into Severo in the summer, where they fought well.
> 
> 3000-4000 of motivated crack troops with specific light infantry training is still hell of a force.
> 
> P.S. they do not take anybody from a "red" country, even if they profess their anti-communist views.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530349556533272577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533890601866895361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531801796334821378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545474668538302464
At this point still rumors.. I am still willing to tell you that this is still in the treeshold of only rumors but there is some sort of a polish foot-print everywhere. I believe with a geninue ground intelligence that people will find out few Polish divisions active in Ukraine all tho not enough to shift the reality on the ground but still significiantly present


----------



## thetutle

ZeGerman said:


> Is it going to be as succesfull as the bakhmur offensive these last months?
> Or as succesfull as all those “pockets” you were seeing everywhere?


Yes it will.

regarding general Milley and his opinions, hmmmm, that's interesting that he doesnt think Ukraine is likely to take the land back. did he think Taliban would take Afghanistan back? That would be interesting to know.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594140886228602880
> 
> It looks like all of the propaganda waged by some in this forum and in other platforms are getting busted by US Joint Chiefs Chairman General Milley.
> 
> It is also evident that the West worries about the expected offensive from Russia during the winter.




If Ukraine did lose 100,000 soldiers, thats pretty bad, but if that death toll is enough to change borders, than any country that wants to expand borders just has to kill 100,000 of the other side and hey presto, you got someones land and made it your own. I imagine Israel would be the first to try that new trick, the "kill 100,000 soldiers and take land" trick. Or Mexicans could do it to Americans, start a war and kill 100k of them and get California back.

Does that mean Russia was pretty foolish to fight Nazi Germany when it lost its first million soldiers? Why not just give up and save all the lives.

I recall Bosnia losing 100,000 people to secure its independence and we had population of 4 million. So I guess Ukraine would need casualties of 1 million before it should even contemplate giving up its territory. Bosnia had no plans to give up territory at 100,000 deaths. So why should ukraine? And lets not forget how many foreign fighters are prepared to fight in ukraine. 

If I was zelensky, I would not negotiate until I hit 1 to 1.5 million deaths range. I mean it all depends on how badly you want to have a country. If they are prepared to live under russia, then I cant undrstand why fight a war in the first place. If they want freedom, well, now is the time to fight. US was prepared to sacrifice 700,000 people to keep its country together in the civil war. So yeah, freedom usually comes with a big price tag.

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## khansaheeb

thetutle said:


> Yes it will.
> 
> regarding general Milley and his opinions, hmmmm, that's interesting that he doesnt think Ukraine is likely to take the land back. did he think Taliban would take Afghanistan back? That would be interesting to know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Ukraine did lose 100,000 soldiers, thats pretty bad, but if that death toll is enough to change borders, than any country that wants to expand borders just has to kill 100,000 of the other side and hey presto, you got someones land and made it your own. I imagine Israel would be the first to try that new trick, the "kill 100,000 soldiers and take land" trick. Or Mexicans could do it to Americans, start a war and kill 100k of them and get California back.
> 
> Does that mean Russia was pretty foolish to fight Nazi Germany when it lost its first million soldiers? Why not just give up and save all the lives.
> 
> I recall Bosnia losing 100,000 people to secure its independence and we had population of 4 million. So I guess Ukraine would need casualties of 1 million before it should even contemplate giving up its territory. Bosnia had no plans to give up territory at 100,000 deaths. So why should ukraine? And lets not forget how many foreign fighters are prepared to fight in ukraine.
> 
> If I was zelensky, I would not negotiate until I hit 1 to 1.5 million deaths range. I mean it all depends on how badly you want to have a country. If they are prepared to live under russia, then I cant undrstand why fight a war in the first place. If they want freedom, well, now is the time to fight. US was prepared to sacrifice 700,000 people to keep its country together in the civil war. So yeah, freedom usually comes with a big price tag.


"Or Mexicans could do it to Americans, start a war and kill 100k of them and get California back." -California belonged to the native Americans and not not Mexicans , so Mexicans have no claim to it.


----------



## khansaheeb

Europe heading for disaster as Trucking will become more expensive causing bankruptcies and recession:-









Europe rushes to fill up on Russian diesel before ban begins


European traders are rushing to fill tanks in the region with Russian diesel before an EU ban begins in February, as alternative sources remain limited.




www.reuters.com





3 minute readNovember 20, 20225:03 PM PSTLast Updated 6 hours ago
Europe rushes to fill up on Russian diesel before ban begins​By Rowena Edwards
and Ron Bousso





A Russian state flag flies on the top of a diesel plant in the Yarakta Oil Field, owned by Irkutsk Oil Company (INK), in Irkutsk Region, Russia March 10, 2019. REUTERS/Vasily Fedosenko/File Photo
LONDON, Nov 21 (Reuters) - European traders are rushing to fill tanks in the region with Russian diesel before an EU ban begins in February, as alternative sources remain limited.
The European Union will ban Russian oil product imports, on which it relies heavily for its diesel, by Feb. 5. That will follow a ban on Russian crude taking effect in December.
Russian diesel loadings destined for the Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Antwerp (ARA) storage region rose to 215,000 bpd from Nov. 1 to Nov. 12, up by 126% from October, Pamela Munger, senior market analyst at energy analytics firm Vortexa, said.

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With few immediate cost-effective alternatives, diesel from Russia has made up 44% of Europe's total imports of the road fuel so far in November, compared with 39% in October, Refinitiv data shows.
Although Europe's reliance on the Russian fuel has fallen from more than 50% before Moscow's February invasion of Ukraine, Russia is still the continent's largest diesel supplier.
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"The EU will have to secure around 500-600 kb/d of diesel to replace the Russian volumes, replacements will come from the US as well as east of Suez, primarily the Middle East and India," Eugene Lindell, refining and products market analyst at FGE, said.
The Russian gasoil heading into ARA tanks is likely to be used or sold quickly as a result of backwardation in Ice gasoil futures , where the current value is higher than it will be in later months, Lars van Wageningen, at Dutch consultancy Insights Global, said.
Part of the influx comes as ICE Futures Europe bans low-sulphur gasoil of Russian origin ahead of EU sanctions.
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From Nov. 30, traders must prove to ICE that no Russian product has entered any tanks in the wider ARA region - including Flushing and Ghent - that will be used for January delivery through the ICE futures contract.
Russian gasoil can still arrive in ARA storage tanks in December, but it must be moved to other tanks from which no delivery can be made, according to ICE.
Some market players expect little impact from the ICE move given low storage levels in the ARA for both Russian and non-Russian gasoil as well as declining delivered volumes.
"Volumes delivered upon expiry are actually pretty small ... it just adds an extra layer of logistical challenge," Neil Crosby, senior analyst at oil analytics firm OilX, said.
In January 2022, 70,000 tonnes of gasoil were delivered through the Ice gasoil futures exchange's website shows.


----------



## Titanium100

khansaheeb said:


> Europe heading for disaster as Trucking will become more expensive causing bankruptcies and recession:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe rushes to fill up on Russian diesel before ban begins
> 
> 
> European traders are rushing to fill tanks in the region with Russian diesel before an EU ban begins in February, as alternative sources remain limited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 minute readNovember 20, 20225:03 PM PSTLast Updated 6 hours ago
> Europe rushes to fill up on Russian diesel before ban begins​By Rowena Edwards
> and Ron Bousso
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Russian state flag flies on the top of a diesel plant in the Yarakta Oil Field, owned by Irkutsk Oil Company (INK), in Irkutsk Region, Russia March 10, 2019. REUTERS/Vasily Fedosenko/File Photo
> LONDON, Nov 21 (Reuters) - European traders are rushing to fill tanks in the region with Russian diesel before an EU ban begins in February, as alternative sources remain limited.
> The European Union will ban Russian oil product imports, on which it relies heavily for its diesel, by Feb. 5. That will follow a ban on Russian crude taking effect in December.
> Russian diesel loadings destined for the Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Antwerp (ARA) storage region rose to 215,000 bpd from Nov. 1 to Nov. 12, up by 126% from October, Pamela Munger, senior market analyst at energy analytics firm Vortexa, said.
> 
> Register for free to Reuters and know the full story​Register now
> Advertisement · Scroll to continue
> Report an ad
> With few immediate cost-effective alternatives, diesel from Russia has made up 44% of Europe's total imports of the road fuel so far in November, compared with 39% in October, Refinitiv data shows.
> Although Europe's reliance on the Russian fuel has fallen from more than 50% before Moscow's February invasion of Ukraine, Russia is still the continent's largest diesel supplier.
> Latest Updates​
> Swiss bank Julius Baer on track to meet targets despite market slump
> German home prices to fall 3.5% next year as buyers feel the pinch - Reuters poll
> Morning Bid: Bulls take cover
> Oil prices fall around $1 to near 2-month lows as supply concerns ease
> Asia shares, oil prices skid on China COVID outbreaks
> "The EU will have to secure around 500-600 kb/d of diesel to replace the Russian volumes, replacements will come from the US as well as east of Suez, primarily the Middle East and India," Eugene Lindell, refining and products market analyst at FGE, said.
> The Russian gasoil heading into ARA tanks is likely to be used or sold quickly as a result of backwardation in Ice gasoil futures , where the current value is higher than it will be in later months, Lars van Wageningen, at Dutch consultancy Insights Global, said.
> Part of the influx comes as ICE Futures Europe bans low-sulphur gasoil of Russian origin ahead of EU sanctions.
> Advertisement · Scroll to continue
> Report an ad
> From Nov. 30, traders must prove to ICE that no Russian product has entered any tanks in the wider ARA region - including Flushing and Ghent - that will be used for January delivery through the ICE futures contract.
> Russian gasoil can still arrive in ARA storage tanks in December, but it must be moved to other tanks from which no delivery can be made, according to ICE.
> Some market players expect little impact from the ICE move given low storage levels in the ARA for both Russian and non-Russian gasoil as well as declining delivered volumes.
> "Volumes delivered upon expiry are actually pretty small ... it just adds an extra layer of logistical challenge," Neil Crosby, senior analyst at oil analytics firm OilX, said.
> In January 2022, 70,000 tonnes of gasoil were delivered through the Ice gasoil futures exchange's website shows.



Article is to long didn't read when will the ban begin


----------



## Dalit

Live updates: Russia's war in Ukraine


Russian and Ukrainian officials blamed each other on Sunday for recent shelling at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. Follow live news updates.




edition.cnn.com





Russian and Ukrainian officials blamed each other on Sunday for recent shelling at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.

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## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> Europe heading for disaster as Trucking will become more expensive causing bankruptcies and recession:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe rushes to fill up on Russian diesel before ban begins
> 
> 
> European traders are rushing to fill tanks in the region with Russian diesel before an EU ban begins in February, as alternative sources remain limited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 minute readNovember 20, 20225:03 PM PSTLast Updated 6 hours ago
> Europe rushes to fill up on Russian diesel before ban begins​By Rowena Edwards
> and Ron Bousso
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Russian state flag flies on the top of a diesel plant in the Yarakta Oil Field, owned by Irkutsk Oil Company (INK), in Irkutsk Region, Russia March 10, 2019. REUTERS/Vasily Fedosenko/File Photo
> LONDON, Nov 21 (Reuters) - European traders are rushing to fill tanks in the region with Russian diesel before an EU ban begins in February, as alternative sources remain limited.
> The European Union will ban Russian oil product imports, on which it relies heavily for its diesel, by Feb. 5. That will follow a ban on Russian crude taking effect in December.
> Russian diesel loadings destined for the Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Antwerp (ARA) storage region rose to 215,000 bpd from Nov. 1 to Nov. 12, up by 126% from October, Pamela Munger, senior market analyst at energy analytics firm Vortexa, said.
> 
> Register for free to Reuters and know the full story​Register now
> Advertisement · Scroll to continue
> Report an ad
> With few immediate cost-effective alternatives, diesel from Russia has made up 44% of Europe's total imports of the road fuel so far in November, compared with 39% in October, Refinitiv data shows.
> Although Europe's reliance on the Russian fuel has fallen from more than 50% before Moscow's February invasion of Ukraine, Russia is still the continent's largest diesel supplier.
> Latest Updates​
> Swiss bank Julius Baer on track to meet targets despite market slump
> German home prices to fall 3.5% next year as buyers feel the pinch - Reuters poll
> Morning Bid: Bulls take cover
> Oil prices fall around $1 to near 2-month lows as supply concerns ease
> Asia shares, oil prices skid on China COVID outbreaks
> "The EU will have to secure around 500-600 kb/d of diesel to replace the Russian volumes, replacements will come from the US as well as east of Suez, primarily the Middle East and India," Eugene Lindell, refining and products market analyst at FGE, said.
> The Russian gasoil heading into ARA tanks is likely to be used or sold quickly as a result of backwardation in Ice gasoil futures , where the current value is higher than it will be in later months, Lars van Wageningen, at Dutch consultancy Insights Global, said.
> Part of the influx comes as ICE Futures Europe bans low-sulphur gasoil of Russian origin ahead of EU sanctions.
> Advertisement · Scroll to continue
> Report an ad
> From Nov. 30, traders must prove to ICE that no Russian product has entered any tanks in the wider ARA region - including Flushing and Ghent - that will be used for January delivery through the ICE futures contract.
> Russian gasoil can still arrive in ARA storage tanks in December, but it must be moved to other tanks from which no delivery can be made, according to ICE.
> Some market players expect little impact from the ICE move given low storage levels in the ARA for both Russian and non-Russian gasoil as well as declining delivered volumes.
> "Volumes delivered upon expiry are actually pretty small ... it just adds an extra layer of logistical challenge," Neil Crosby, senior analyst at oil analytics firm OilX, said.
> In January 2022, 70,000 tonnes of gasoil were delivered through the Ice gasoil futures exchange's website shows.


It’s a war of attrition. Let’s see who goes bankrupt, Russia or EU. Russia has an economy smaller than Italy. Super gasoline 1.90 euros per liter today. Still ok.

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## khansaheeb

Titanium100 said:


> Article is to long didn't read when will the ban begin


lol, Russian diesel before an EU ban begins in February


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594585861462626304

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Wow Wow:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594585861462626304



Satanist children organ harvesting. What happened to the Nazis ?

A dilemma . Should this be reported for spreading BS , or just leave it and let people here decide for themselves , what you and your reports are worth . . .


~

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## Deino

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594585861462626304




You really believe every trolling Russian propaganda as long as it fits your agenda? Facts are irrelevant ....

By the way, in the meantime in your beloved Russia


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594310044778389505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594305043326701569

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## One_Nation

thetutle said:


> Yes it will.
> 
> regarding general Milley and his opinions, hmmmm, that's interesting that he doesnt think Ukraine is likely to take the land back. did he think Taliban would take Afghanistan back? That would be interesting to know.


Milley and his predecessors went to secure Iraq against a so called tyrant. They only gave death and destruction. In the end left Iraqis at the mercy of isis.
Again death and destruction in Afghanistan then left them to Taliban.

No one at this point can foresee the long term future of Ukrainians after they are done being "helped" by the same people.


----------



## Viet

not bad. Putin´s invasion army lost 1,500 tanks till day. that is more than most tank armies in the world.
by this pace next year Russia tank armies are down the toilet.






Wolodymyr Selenskyj, Präsident der Ukraine, und Rishi Sunak, Premierminister von Großbritannien, betrachten zerstörte russische Militärfahrzeuge. © Ukrainian Presidential Press Office via AP/dpa

Reactions: Love Love:
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## MeFishToo

Titanium100 said:


> Article is to long didn't read when will the ban begin


EU oil embargoes:
Crude oil import ban Dec. 5 2022
Shipping services (oil) at enforced low prices Dec. 5 2023
Oil products import ban Feb. 2023


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## MeFishToo

ng3ng4 said:


> Negative ratings dished out to me because I pointed the war crimes of Ukraine Nazis (apparently aided by Americans in slaughtering Russians POWs in shooting them in their heads.
> 
> Or those war crimes of Ukraine Nazies shooting Russians POWs in the heads never happened?
> 
> 
> New York Times tore off the wool Ukraine Nazis and their doggies in Whitehouse and NATO tried to pull over the world and agreed that atrocity by Ukraine Nazis indeed took place.
> 
> Perhaps NYT not fearful of negative ratings from here.
> Or they , like me, decide the truth and honour much more important than fear of negative ratings
> 
> 🇺🇦🏴‍☠️🇷🇺The New York Times confirms the murder of Russian prisoners of war in Makeyevka by militants of the AFU
> 
> ▪️ "The authenticity of the videos has been verified by The New York Times, they demonstrate a terrifying moment of conflict" -NYT
> 
> ▪️The authors of the NYT conducted a consistent analysis of the footage and came to the conclusion that the Russian fighters were captured by the horsemen, who decided to kill them, thereby committing a war crime that needs to be investigated.
> 
> ▪️"It looks like most of them were shot in the head," said Dr. Rohini Haar, medical adviser to Doctors for Human Rights.
> 
> ▪️ "There are pools of blood. This indicates that they were simply left there dead. There didn't seem to be any effort to pick them up or help them."
> 
> ▪️Dr. Haar notes that when the Russian military surrendered, they were lying without weapons, with their arms outstretched or behind their heads: "They are considered hors de combat or non-combatants - in fact prisoners of war."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Videos Suggest Captive Russian Soldiers Were Killed at Close Range
> 
> 
> Videos circulating online and reported on by Russian state media have raised questions about whether Ukrainian soldiers committed a war crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine lost much much more than 100,000
> 
> https://****/Slavyangrad/21363 💀💀💀☠️☠️☠️Slavyangrad:
> 
> ***** = t dot me*
> 
> Damn...A comity of soldiers' mothers of AFU soldiers request data about the destiny of 320.000 soldiers of AFU. They are treathen with prosecution from the side of SBU if they continue their inquiry.
> 
> Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
> https://****/+PUg0rQrZdiw4YWFh
> Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community
> 
> We, at SLG stand firmly behind the number of 200.000 Ua troops (AFU, terdefense, folkssturm and nazi units combined) killed in action or missing. This is surprising even for us.
> 
> Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
> https://****/+PUg0rQrZdiw4YWFh
> Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community


Did you even watch the video with the POWs? You cant see where they were shot. The video shows those guys comming out placing themself on the ground right outside the building. The last guy came out shooting, so he is basically to blame. The ukrainians couldnt possibly know if the rest of them were armed too, so yes, they all ended up dead.
None of us know what happend besides what the footage shows. You just claim execution and headshot because it fits your narrative.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594726002080583684

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594721350651879425



Russian offensive in the vuhledar area going great it seems. Russians are what they do best : Cannon fodder.


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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594721350651879425
> 
> 
> 
> Russian offensive in the vuhledar area going great it seems. Russians are what they do best : Cannon fodder.



Is this new, or it's from their failed offensive on 12th-14th?

They were pretty much done for by then by losing half of their force. If RU command threw them on another attack right away, bad for them.


----------



## Vergennes

Paul2 said:


> Is this new, or it's from their failed offensive on 12th-14th?
> 
> They were pretty much done for by then by losing half of their force. If RU command threw them on another attack right away, bad for them.



The Russians after the first waves failed brought in reserves and were able at some point to occupy some southern parts of the town (despite Russian army claiming they fully captured the town), but came under increasing Ukrainian army attacks and had to retreat it seems after suffering high casualties.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594663592699248640


----------



## Soldier35

The Russian army continues to actively use Lancet kamikaze drones in Ukraine. One of the installations of the Osa anti-aircraft missile system of the Ukrainian army, returning from combat duty, was spotted by Russian UAVs. The Osa air defense system was placed in a hangar, after which the building was hit by a Lancet kamikaze drone. Judging by the footage in the hangar, a fire started after the impact.






One of the soldiers of the Russian PMC "Wagner", who was already in the videos, spoke about the battles in Ukraine, the hidden exit to the positions of the Ukrainian army and the capture of Ukrainian army soldiers on the front line.






Former President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko, together with the volunteer movement, purchased an Oshkosh M1070 heavy tractor in England for the needs of the Ukrainian army. The Oshkosh M1070 tractor was developed in 1990 in the USA and is designed to transport heavy equipment in the US Army. The 8x8 vehicle is equipped with a 6-seater cab and can operate as part of road trains with a gross weight of up to 107 tons. The vehicle is equipped with a 12-liter turbodiesel with a capacity of 500 hp. With. In 1997, redesigned tractors under the index 1070F began to enter the army of England. The 1070F tractor was significantly different from the base model. It has a 700 hp diesel engine. With. For use in areas with increased danger, the cab of the tractor can be equipped with hinged armor, as well as lattice screens that protect against cumulative RPG grenades. Mounting of a remote-controlled installation with a 7.62-mm machine gun is provided on the cabin roof. Empty car weight 19.5 tons. The load capacity of the tractor semi-trailer is 70 tons. Power reserve 520 km.






One of the French self-propelled guns "Caesar" with a caliber of 155 mm, delivered earlier to the Ukrainian army, came under attack from a Russian kamikaze drone "Lancet".






One of the Ukrainian soldiers filmed the artillery strikes of the Russian PMC "Wagner" on Bakhmut, where heavy fighting is now taking place, shooting in the month of November.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Is this new, or it's from their failed offensive on 12th-14th?
> 
> They were pretty much done for by then by losing half of their force. If RU command threw them on another attack right away, bad for them.


The Russians hope to survive the winter, to withstand Ukraine army’s onslaughts. They digging in 3 major defence lines: Wagner line northeast of Bakhmut, Swatowe-Kramina line in the center front and Crimea line southern front hold by major Russian forces. Ukraine main attack seems now focusing on the middle line towards Swatowe-Kramina.
Good for Ukraine: the russians have no winter gears.







Ukrainische Soldaten nahe der Front an der Swatowe-Kreminna-Linie: Dort gab es in den vergangenen Tagen heftige Kämpfe.(Quelle: IMAGO/Ashley Chan)


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594647820828540930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594664576078995457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594734587275771904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594710825809346562

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594748510749982721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594738906964131840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594713407550361601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594636528369950720

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## The SC




----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Lol, the legion was at most 12000-13000 at its peak, with around 5000 bailing out in first months of war, or deemed unfit for service.
> 
> The biggest part are Georgians, and French ex-Foreign-Legion, then Americans, Poles, and Chechenians.
> 
> There are, maybe, 8000-10000 regular foreign well-wishers, distributing aid, helping civilians, fixing equipment, doing medevac, etc, but they don't take formal membership in any unit.
> 
> So, at most, there are 5000 people who know how to fight as proper light infantry.


Back in April, Foreign Legion at most can field 2 Brigades (That's a very generous assessment) that's less than 9000 men. There are no way 120,000 trained foreign fighter (You can't join Foreign Legion unless you have had combat experience), if they do, Russia is long finished. 

That's why I decided against joining them when I was over in Ukraine to be honest.



khansaheeb said:


> "Or Mexicans could do it to Americans, start a war and kill 100k of them and get California back." -California belonged to the native Americans and not not Mexicans , so Mexicans have no claim to it.


Only northern parts, near Oregon and Washington are settled by Native before the Spanish Inquisition, southern California (San Jose and down) up to Baja are controlled by different tribe that formed modern days Mexico, so yes, Mexico can claim Southern California.


----------



## jhungary

Gomig-21 said:


> EDIT: Sorry I got the wrong video. I thought the one you posted was the one I was referring to below but it wasn't. I'll find the correct one and re-edit it into here.
> 
> Here it is; Retired Colonel Douglas McGregor who like I said is no slouch lol. This is a retired top US military personnel and the stuff he talks about is so candid and straight to the point and honestly in some areas favors Ukraine, but in large part, the Russians are doing some stuff that almost no one is talking about and many of the other things he says are truly incredible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He said some incredible stuff. I watched the entire interview which I rarely spend an hour on something like this with so much from both sides that you don't know who's telling the truth. But when you hear someone like this guy, who is hardly a slouch, but an ex-US colonel come out and not even be shy about the numbers and tell it like it is according to him, it was gripping.
> 
> Besides the death tolls and the limited numbers of fighting units in the Ukrainian army and they're having excellent success is a lot in part because of these obviously deliberate retreats by Russia. But what got me the most is when he said the HIMARs are all operated by US personnel. Did you hear that part? He said that to become efficient enough to use that system which is designed to only be operated by 2 personnel, you need something like 6 months full training and then join an already operating unit to learn in field and because there are only 2 personnel operating that system, the one driving the unit alone has 1100 tasks LOL! I just about fell out of my chair when I heard him say that.



HIMARS operator don't take 6 months training.

In the Army, everything is done on TRADOC guideline which mean each MOS would have a clear instruction for how long to train up for that MOS

In HIMARS operator case, the MOS is 13M (Multiple Rocket Launcher Crewman), which according to Fort Silk, the course is 5 weeks long





__





13M AIT | Field Artillery | Fort Sill | Oklahoma | Fires Center of Excellence


Fort Sill’s official website with news, events and information about the post and the people who serve and work here.




sill-www.army.mil





If you go OSUT, that length become 15 weeks, that's Basic + AIT to become a 13M10.




Gomig-21 said:


> So hearing him talk about all the territories and the equipment and the numbers in amazing clarity and detail and be very partial to the Russian position despite where they were 3 months ago and now is not something those in the experienced military understand. They see the numbers and positions in a certain way and they can easily combine and assess the outlook of what it would take to even get into a good position for negotiations and he sees none of that. I thought this was probably the most fascinating talk about this war coming from one of the recent top retired US generals.



He was a colonel, not a general, and the fact that he call for Russia on RT to annex the entire Donbas back in 2014 would show you who he had batted for.

I wouldn't trust any of this colonel words without solid evidence to be honest. Would treat it with a grain of salt.

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## A.P. Richelieu

One_Nation said:


> Milley and his predecessors went to secure Iraq against a so called tyrant. They only gave death and destruction. In the end left Iraqis at the mercy of isis.
> Again death and destruction in Afghanistan then left them to Taliban.
> 
> No one at this point can foresee the long term future of Ukrainians after they are done being "helped" by the same people.


The GDP of Iraq skyrocketed after the demise of Saddam, and then the US left at the request of the Iraqi government. The incompetent Iraqi Army ran when faced with ISIS, and Iraq begged the US to come back and save them.

The death and destruction of Afghanistan was mainly caused by the Taliban, armed and funded by Pakistan according to many PDF. members. Now they are crying for help from the outside since they are not competent to run a country by themselves.

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## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> US pressures Ukraine to weigh talks with Russia
> 
> 
> White House insists the United States is not trying to force Kyiv to hold talks or cede territory.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did I tell you? The US/NATO are now openly pressuring Ukraine into peace talks with Russia. Déjà vu anyone? Ukrainians are the new Kurds. The sacrificial lamb of the US/NATO. That little punk Zelensky has nowhere to go LOL His masters have sealed his pathetic fate.
> 
> All the suckers in this topic that have been jumping like headless chickens are now going to squeal. Ukraine will be forced into talks and I will eat my popcorn with full knowledge that I was right all along. Russia annexed important territory and at the end of the day the biggest winner.
> 
> Moral of the story, the US/NATO are untrustworthy snakes. They throw their allies under the bus. Never trust US/NATO.


Nobody is squealing: US has become the world's largest LNG producer, Europe has accelerated its transition to green energy, and Russia has lost its smartest and richest. It was inevitible that Ukraine would be asked to negotiate. For Russia they will get selective sanctions removed (like Iran) when in the future they withdraw from the most idiotic 15% of territory ever gained. 

Selective sanctions mean that in 5 years, Russia may not have back in industrialization 20 years but 10 years. The only person squealing is you and the Russian Govt, and sadly the Russian population vicitmized out of this

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## Corruptistan

So who is winning in this Slavic war?

Can Ukraine regain all of its territories, Crimea included, or will the Russians launch some serious offensives for the first time since the early stage of the war?

It looks like the constant Russian bombardments of the Ukrainian infrastructure, in particularly energy one, is taking its toll.

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## bobo6661

Battlion25 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530349556533272577
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533890601866895361
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531801796334821378
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545474668538302464
> At this point still rumors.. I am still willing to tell you that this is still in the treeshold of only rumors but there is some sort of a polish foot-print everywhere. I believe with a geninue ground intelligence that people will find out few Polish divisions active in Ukraine all tho not enough to shift the reality on the ground but still significiantly present


This is fake like not our uniforms and only one guy speeks polish ... The other is from ukraine i guess hearing his broken polish 
And not that car ID is fake to

The document visible on the photo, unless it has been completely falsified, belongs to another person. It’s indicated by the PESEL number, at least. In the scanned vehicle card, the year of birth of its owner is 1971, while Col. Dariusz Majchrzak was born on December 16, 1972. This information was confirmed during the phone call with Academy of War Arts’ spokesman, who in 2020 created Col. Majchrzak’s page on

First numbers in polish pesel is year of birth





https://fakenews.pl/en/general/no-colonel-dariusz-majchrzak-is-not-fighting-in-ukraine/

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## Corruptistan

bobo6661 said:


> This is fake like not our uniforms and only one guy speeks polish ... The other is from ukraine i guess hearing his broken polish
> And not that car ID is fake to
> 
> The document visible on the photo, unless it has been completely falsified, belongs to another person. It’s indicated by the PESEL number, at least. In the scanned vehicle card, the year of birth of its owner is 1971, while Col. Dariusz Majchrzak was born on December 16, 1972. This information was confirmed during the phone call with Academy of War Arts’ spokesman, who in 2020 created Col. Majchrzak’s page on
> 
> First numbers in polish pesel is year of birth
> 
> View attachment 899338
> 
> https://fakenews.pl/en/general/no-colonel-dariusz-majchrzak-is-not-fighting-in-ukraine/



Russians have a long and proud tradition and habit of lying and falsifying history and war crimes. Pakistanis familiar with the brutal Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan will know.

Fellow Slavic peoples like Poles and Ukrainians similarly. Let alone Caucasian peoples such as Circassians and Chechens who suffered from several Russian genocides.

Russians are a good people, like most people in the world are, their country has enormous resources and is the largest country. They could have been a huge success story if they had been blessed with more competent leadership since 1917.

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## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> This is fake like not our uniforms and only one guy speeks polish ... The other is from ukraine i guess hearing his broken polish
> And not that car ID is fake to
> 
> The document visible on the photo, unless it has been completely falsified, belongs to another person. It’s indicated by the PESEL number, at least. In the scanned vehicle card, the year of birth of its owner is 1971, while Col. Dariusz Majchrzak was born on December 16, 1972. This information was confirmed during the phone call with Academy of War Arts’ spokesman, who in 2020 created Col. Majchrzak’s page on
> 
> First numbers in polish pesel is year of birth
> 
> View attachment 899338
> 
> https://fakenews.pl/en/general/no-colonel-dariusz-majchrzak-is-not-fighting-in-ukraine/



LMAO it seems lately as Russia multiplies goodwill gestures,suddenly hordes of Polish black magic satanist mercenaries have begun to appear out of nowhere...


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594840196637409281

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, NOVEMBER 20​Nov 20, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 20
Kateryna Stepanenko, Frederick W. Kagan, and Grace Mappes
November 20, 9:15 ET *​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
ISW is publishing an abbreviated campaign update today, November 20. This report discusses the rising influence of the milblogger (military correspondent or voenkor) community in Russia despite its increasingly critical commentary on the conduct of the war. The milblogger community reportedly consists of over 500 independent authors and has emerged as an authoritative voice on the Russian war.[1] The community maintains a heavily pro-war and Russian nationalist outlook and is intertwined with prominent Russian nationalist ideologists. Milbloggers’ close relationships with armed forces – whether Russian Armed Forces, Chechen special units, Wagner Group mercenaries, or proxy formations – have given this community an authoritative voice arguably louder in the Russian information space than the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD). Russian President Vladimir Putin has defended the milbloggers from MoD attacks and protected their independence even as he increases oppression and censorship throughout Russia.
The Kremlin has allowed the ever-growing informal milblogger community to gain a quasi-official but independent position despite otherwise increasing domestic repression and censorship. *The Kremlin has historically promulgated its state narrative via Russian federal outlets, TV, and print media, but has allowed the highly individualistic and often critical milblogger community to put forth its own narratives regarding this war. The milblogger community is composed of a wide range of characters ranging from those who support the Kremlin while criticizing the Russian military command to some who have directly blamed Russian President Vladimir Putin for Russia’s consistent military failures in Ukraine. That the Kremlin tolerates the miblogger community is astonishing given its censorship of other more traditional outlets including opposition and foreign media.
*Russian milbloggers are not merely cheerleaders for the war – they are emerging as a group with a distinct voice within Russia. *Milbloggers offer a highly informal platform that differs dramatically from the Russian MoD’s structured presentation of the war. Milbloggers largely publish self-authored content on Russian social media platforms such as Telegram, VK, and RuTube in a casual and approachable manner. Most prominent milbloggers either operate on the frontlines or have sources within Russian military structures, which allows them to form assessments based on first-hand accounts independent of MoD information and censorship.
*The milbloggers are not fully separate from the Russian government, however. *Russian investigative outlet _The Bell,_ for example, uncovered that the creator of one of the most influential Russian Telegram channels, Rybar, is a former employee of the Russian MoD’s press service.[2] Other milbloggers are correspondents of Russian state media outlets such as _Komsomoslkaya Pravda, Ria, _and _RiaFan_ where they maintain their highly opinionated coverage of the war and even offer recommendations to improve the conduct of the Russian military campaign. Some proxy officials from occupied Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts also operate as milbloggers because they voice their opinions, share analysis from other milbloggers, and disseminate footage from the frontlines independent of the Kremlin and often at odds with the official MoD and Kremlin lines.
*Select milbloggers are now holding official positions within the Kremlin. *Putin has promoted some prominent milbloggers with large numbers of followers in order to reach the nationalist constituency to which they speak and most importantly to prevent this group from turning against Putinism. Putin appointed a prominent Russian milblogger and correspondent for _Komsomolskaya Pravda,_ Alexander (Sasha) Kots as a member of the Russian Human Rights Council on November 20, for example, as ISW has previously reported.[3] Putin has met individually with some Russian milbloggers and invited them to attend his annexation speech on September 30.[4] Putin’s engagements with these milbloggers have not softened their commentary on the war, however. They continue to criticize the Russian war effort and especially the Russian MoD even as Putin defends and promotes them.
*Some Russian milbloggers have close ties with prominent nationalist ideologists. *Nationalist and former member of the Russian State Duma Zakhar Prilepin (known for creating a volunteer battalion in occupied Donetsk Oblast in 2017) and founder of the modern-day National Bolshevik Party Eduard Limonov reportedly celebrated Russian milblogger Semyon Pegov (known under the alias Wargonzo).[5] Milbloggers also host podcasts with widely known Russian neo-nationalists such as Alexander Dugin and perestroika-era Soviet TV personality Alexander Lyubimov.[6] The milbloggers’ affiliation and mutual promotion with these figures foster a maximalist goal of full Russian supremacy in Ukraine within the information space. Dugin even directly blamed Putin for Russia’s military failures following the Russian withdrawal from Kherson City, in fact, criticizing Putin for failing to embrace Russian nationalist ideology fully enough.[7] Dugin’s criticism did not lead other milbloggers to criticize Putin explicitly, but neither did the milbloggers defend Putin against Dugin’s critique or attack Dugin.
*Putin has likely blocked MoD attempts to purge or otherwise control the milbloggers. *ISW reported on October 14 that unspecified Russian senior officials within the Russian MoD attempted to criminally prosecute the most prominent milbloggers.[8] Russian milbloggers publicly criticized the Russian MoD for the censorship attempt, continued their normal war coverage, and did not report receiving criminal charges. Unknown Russian officials had previously attacked Russian milbloggers by accusing them of revealing Russian positions to Ukrainian forces.[9] Putin has apparently stood by the milbloggers, however, recently commenting on the importance of transparency and accuracy in war reporting—a comment that could only have been aimed at the milblogger coverage.[10]
*The prominence of the milblogger community is likely a direct result of the Kremlin’s failure to establish an effective Telegram presence stemming from Putin’s general failure to prepare his people for a serious and protracted war. *Russian media statistics center Brand Analytics noted that between the start of the war on February 24 and October 1, the number of Russian bloggers on Telegram increased by 58% while the use of banned Western social media platforms such as Instagram and Twitter decreased markedly.[11] Telegram also has the highest percent increase of daily published content (23%) compared with to other Russian social media outlets over that period. _The Bell_ noted that Rybar’s following increased sharply in September and October to over a million followers amidst partial mobilization and the start of Ukrainian counteroffensives in the east and south.[12] The growth of Telegram and the case of Rybar highlight Russians’ distrust of the Kremlin’s official narratives and search for more accurate reporting. The Ukrainian government, it is worth noting, took the opposite approach. Instead of attempting to centralize reporting on the war, Kyiv tasked all regional officials to start official Telegram channels to provide information regarding the war in real time.[13]
*The Kremlin struggles to emulate the success of Russian pro-war siloviki figures online. *Chechen leader and _silovik_ Ramzan Kadyrov is the most followed Russian milblogger with over three million followers on Telegram. Kadyrov’s Telegram channel closely resembles the other milbloggers’ in format and features Kadyrov’s video rants, combat footage, and unfiltered opinions on the course of the “special military operation.”[14] Kadyrov’s channel, however, has a more coherent narrative than the individual milbloggers given his personal interests in promoting his troops.[15] Wagner Group-affiliated milbloggers also promote mercenary forces at the expense of criticizing the Russian MoD and traditional forces.[16] Prominent Kremlin state TV propagandists Vladimir Solovyov and Margarita Simonyan, on the other hand, only have 1.4 million and 500,000 followers on Telegram respectively and have begun echoing some Russian milblogger critiques on their Telegram channels.[17] The Russian MoD channel has even fewer followers on Telegram than Solovyov and Simonyan despite the growth of the platform – only 480,000.
*Putin continues to double down on support for the independence of milblogger reporting even as he doubles down on efforts to mobilize the Russian population for war. *These two phenomena are almost certainly related. Putin likely recognizes that the Kremlin and especially the MoD has lost whatever trust many Russians may have had in the veracity of its claims as well as the need to rely on such voices as pro-war Russians find authentic to retain support for the increasing sacrifices he is demanding. Putin’s defense of the milbloggers’ criticisms of his chosen officials is remarkable. It suggests that he sees retaining the support of at least some notable segment of the Russian population as a center of gravity for the war effort if not for the survival of his regime and that he is willing to endure critiques from a group he perceives as loyal to secure that center of gravity. Will the milbloggers remain loyal to Putin and the war effort if the Russian military continues to struggle and suffer setbacks? How will Putin react if they do not? These questions could become significant as Putin increases his demands on his reluctant population to provide cannon fodder for a failing war.



*Key inflections in ongoing military operations on November 20:*

*The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on November 20 that Russian special services are planning false flag attacks on Belarusian critical infrastructure facilities to pressure the Belarusian military to enter the war in Ukraine.[18] The Ukrainian General Staff added that Ukrainian officials have not observed the formation of any Belarusian assault groups.[19] ISW continues to assess that it is unlikely that Belarusian forces will invade Ukraine.*


*Russian and Ukrainian sources reported ongoing fighting along the Svatove-Kreminna line on November 20.[20] Russian sources noted that deteriorating weather conditions are impacting hostilities.[21]*


*A Ukrainian military official stated that Ukrainian forces have liberated 12 settlements in Luhansk Oblast since the start of the eastern counteroffensive.[22]*


*The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed to strike a Ukrainian troop concentration in the area of Novoselivske, Luhansk Oblast.[23] The Russian MoD previously claimed to repel Ukrainian attacks on the settlement, and this claim might indicate that Ukrainian forces advanced to the settlement.*






*Russian forces continued offensive operations in the Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and western Donetsk directions.[24]*






*Ukrainian officials reported that Russian forces continued to transfer some forces from the east (left) bank of the Dnipro River to other operational directions, but still maintain a significant force presence in southern Kherson Oblast.[25]*


*Ukrainian and Russian sources reported that shelling damaged the infrastructure of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP).[26] One Russian milblogger claimed that the shelling came from Russian-controlled territory south of the plant, but most Russian sources accused Ukraine.[27]*


*Russian occupation officials may have purged the occupation Mayor of Enerhodar Alexander Volga.[28] Some Russian sources claimed that Volga received a promotion within the occupation administration.[29]*


*Russian military officials continued mobilization measures amid reports of ongoing resistance and poor conditions.[30]*
 


*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update.* 
[1] https://re-russia.net/review/122/; https://****/kremlebezBashennik/28539
[2] https://meduza dot io/news/2022/11/19/the-bell-vyyasnil-imya-sozdatelya-rybarya-eto-31-letniy-byvshiy-sotrudnik-press-sluzhby-minoborony; https://thebell dot io/sozdatel-rybarya-prodolzhenie-rassledovaniya-the-bell
[3] https://www.gazeta dot ru/politics/2022/11/17/15798235.shtml; https://meduza dot io/news/2022/11/17/putin-isklyuchil-pravozaschitnikov-iz-soveta-po-pravam-cheloveka-i-vklyuchil-v-nego-korrespondenta-komsomolskoy-pravdy-aleksandra-kotsa
[4] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[5] https://russiapost dot info/politics/voenkor
[6] https://tlgrm dot ru/channels/@wargonzo/9273
[7] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[8] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[9] https://****/vladlentatarsky/14877; https://****/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/15525; https://****/vladlentatarsky/14877; https://****/juchkovsky/2493; https://****/boris_rozhin/56620; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[10] https://****/readovkanews/46877
[11] https://br-analytics dot ru/blog/rus-social-media-sept-2022/
[12] https://thebell dot io/kto-vedet-voennyy-telegram-kanal-rybar-rassledovanie-the-bell
[13] https://www.kmu.gov dot ua/news/shchob-uniknuti-fejkiv-koristuyemos-oficijnimi-dzherelami
[14] https://****/RKadyrov_95/2911; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3009; https://meduza dot io/news/2022/10/25/kadyrov-nazval-slabym-otvet-na-obstrely-territorii-rossii-prizval-stirat-s-zemli-goroda-i-nazyvat-spetsoperatsiyu-voynoy; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3039; https://****/RKadyrov_95/2962; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3049; https://****/kavkazrealii/11790; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3057; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3064 
[15] https://****/RKadyrov_95/2939; https://****/RKadyrov_95/2961; https://****/RKadyrov_95/2965; https://****/RKadyrov_95/2988; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3021; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3027; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3029 ; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3031; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3030 ; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3031 
[16] https://meduza.io/feature/2022/10/04/kadyrov-i-prigozhin-regulyarno-i-po... ; https://www.rbcdotru/politics/21/08/2017/5999947f9a79470b77c71d3f ; https://****/stranaua/67672 https://****/rlz_the_kraken/53322; https://****/rlz_the_kraken/53269; https://****/grey_zone/15359
[17] https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1574458606313156608?s=20&t=CFq5xMOynO...
[18] https://gur dot gov.ua/content/rosiiski-spetssluzhby-planuiut-provokatsii-na-biloruskykh-obiektakh-krytychnoi-infrastruktury-zokrema-na-biloruskii-aes.html; https://****/energoatom_ua/10758
[19] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0TebQeoRSt6RjoUSCp2p...
[20] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0TebQeoRSt6RjoUSCp2p...; https://****/luhanskaVTSA/6964; https://****/vysokygovorit/10014; https://****/millnr/9758; https://****/vysokygovorit/10017 
[21] https://****/dva_majors/5835; https://****/vysokygovorit/10014; https://****/vysokygovorit/10017 
[22] https://armyinform dot com.ua/2022/11/20/u-luganskij-oblasti-12-naselenyh-punktiv-pid-ukrayinskym-praporom-sergij-cherevatyj/
[23] https://****/mod_russia/21888; https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[24] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0TebQeoRSt6RjoUSCp2p...
[25] https://armyinform dot com.ua/2022/11/20/na-pivdni-krayiny-vorog-pereformatovuye-svoyi-syly/; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0TebQeoRSt6RjoUSCp2p...; EEQL9h13rVLNZRrmC7fjqm9LwAF6C42wmzQwJqBZhG3cUijhl
[26] https://****/mod_russia/21889; https://****/energoatom_ua/10759; https://****/RKadyrov_95/3132; https://****/vrogov/6155;
[27] https://****/m0sc0wcalling/14783
[28] https://****/orlovdmytroEn/1273; https://****/vrogov/6146; https://****/bulbe_de_trones/3373; https://****/m0sc0wcalling/14750; https://****/readovkanews/47283; https://****/readovkanews/47288
[29] https://****/readovkanews/47288
[30] https://****/ostorozhno_novosti/12763; https://****/ostorozhno_novosti/12764; https://notes.citeam dot org/mobilization-nov-18-19; https://****/istories_media/1749; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02vwp3hev42TuhzQE5EE...; https://****/akashevarova/5882; https://****/akashevarova/5882; https://****/readovkanews/47261; https://ngs55 dot ru/text/politics/2022/11/15/71815355/; https://kostroma dot today/news/v-stroj-53-letnego-kostromicha-s-opuxolyu-mobilizovali-i-muchayut/






Tags​Ukraine Project
File Attachments: 



DraftUkraineCOTNovember20,2022.png



Kharkiv Battle Map Draft November 20,2022.png



Donetsk Battle Map Draft November 20,2022.png



Kherson-Mykolaiv Battle Map Draft November 20,2022.png

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## Viet

MeFishToo said:


> Did you even watch the video with the POWs? You cant see where they were shot. The video shows those guys comming out placing themself on the ground right outside the building. The last guy came out shooting, so he is basically to blame. The ukrainians couldnt possibly know if the rest of them were armed too, so yes, they all ended up dead.
> None of us know what happend besides what the footage shows. You just claim execution and headshot because it fits your narrative.


The vid footage shows a Russian soldier came out shooting. Putin can end this worthless war immediately if he wants to. He is much like a rat in a corner.

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## jhungary

Looks like Australia is preparing NT to train Ukrainian troop during Dec-March, which is dead winter in Europe but Summer in Australia.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Don't know which side you on but this need to be called out. This is subhuman behaviour from the russian


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594816471279992832
Also Russia is now recognized as a terrorist state. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594715842759069699
Thanksgiving comes early🦃🇹🇷

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594687325820305415

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## Reashot Xigwin

More toys being delivered

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594634794599866368

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## ZeGerman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> More toys being delivered
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594634794599866368


Wow, normally i have plenty of critiscism for turkey (not a erdogan fan)…but this is a very nice step/gesture. Worthy of one of the Nato pillars. Hopefully more to come

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## Ali_Baba

Good to see all the new goodies from Turkey get combat tested and refined in Ukraine - can only be good for Turkey ( and therefore as a source for Pakistan ) in the long run.









Not only TRLG-230 high-precision missiles for MLRS: Turkey transferred to Ukraine SUNGUR air-to-air missiles for Bayraktar TB2, they can shoot down Iranian drones Shahed 136


In addition to the TRLG-230 high-precision missiles for MLRS, Turkey also handed over SUNGUR air-to-air missiles to the Ukrainian Armed Forces.




gagadget.com





TB2's armed for air-to-air now in Ukraine.



> In addition to high-precision TRLG-230-230 missiles for MLRS, Turkey has handed over SUNGUR air-to-air missiles to the Ukrainian Armed Forces.











The Stalwart Ally: Türkiye’s Arms Deliveries To Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com


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## One_Nation

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The GDP of Iraq skyrocketed after the demise of Saddam, and then the US left at the request of the Iraqi government. The incompetent Iraqi Army ran when faced with ISIS, and Iraq begged the US to come back and save them.
> 
> The death and destruction of Afghanistan was mainly caused by the Taliban, armed and funded by Pakistan according to many PDF. members. Now they are crying for help from the outside since they are not competent to run a country by themselves.



When you are brainwashed by CNN + Fox news propaganda. I thought Europeans had free media and better common sense.

It was USA that destroyed Iraqi army and destroyed the state. They admitted it many times. What they made after Saddam was a puppet regime which is why it crumbled. WMD lie was exposed soon after the attack but for slow learners like you it still holds.

I'm sure you don't care about "many PDF members" when they claim USA and India created and armed Pakistani Taliban who caused same destruction in Pakistan. 

America destroyed Afghanistan through the puppet regime and fake army of 300,000 +. They brought back Taliban as plan B. It was Americans that signed an agreement to allow them back in power. It is clear by now the whole war was money laundering operation by Americans. 
Only people like you still believe in debunked American lies.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> There are no way 120,000 trained foreign fighter (You can't join Foreign Legion unless you have had combat experience), if they do, Russia is long finished.
> 
> That's why I decided against joining them when I was over in Ukraine to be honest.


I thought you said you have combat experience.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I thought you said you have combat experience.


I had, that's not the reason why I didn't join. 

They are a bunch of loose troops, weren't really organised. Many of my friend ended up joining TDF instead.


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## thetutle




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## Viet

Ukraine Launches Assault to Oust Russia From Key Black Sea Peninsula​
By
Jared MalsinFollow


Ukraine’s military said it launched an operation to push Russian forces from a strategic peninsula on the country’s Black Sea coast, as Kyiv looks to open up its besieged ports and build on significant gains through the country’s south.

Ukrainian forces have begun an assault on the Kinburn Spit, a strip of land jutting into the sea south of Mykolaiv that has been occupied for months by Russian forces cutting off access to the port city.

“For now, this military operation is in silent mode,” said a spokeswoman for Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command on Ukrainian television late Monday. She didn’t say when the operation had started but said stormy weather provided an advantage for Ukrainian forces in the area.

The larger Kinburn Peninsula is a key strategic prize for Ukraine. The sliver of land lies at a key maritime choke point leading to the port cities of Mykolaiv and Kherson, at the mouth of two large rivers, the Southern Buh and the Dnipro.

Russian forces have used the spit to launch missile, drone and artillery strikes that have hammered the city of Mykolaiv, which remains in Ukrainian control but has suffered under heavy Russian fire throughout the war.

The Kinburn Peninsula lies at a crucial Black Sea pinch point​




Southern Buh River
Mykolaiv

Sources: Institute for the Study of War and AEI's Critical Threats Project (Russian-controlled areas)

Carl Churchill/THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Reclaiming the peninsula could also provide relief to hundreds of thousands of people living in the Mykolaiv region. The near-constant Russian shelling has damaged schools, hospitals, grain silos, port infrastructure and many civilian homes.

The governor of the Mykolaiv region, Vitaliy Kim, said in a social-media post on Tuesday that the capture of three more settlements on the peninsula would put the entire region under Ukrainian control.

The new operation comes as Ukrainian forces attempt to expand on a sweeping offensive that has recaptured vast swaths of land previously occupied by Russia in southern Ukraine. Ukrainian forces earlier this month took back the city of Kherson, the only regional capital claimed by the Kremlin since its full-scale invasion of Ukraine began last February.

Russian forces launched heavy shelling of Kherson on Monday, a senior Ukrainian official said, attacking at a moment when Ukrainian authorities were working to restore normal life to the city. Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, called the shelling “systematic.”

“There is no military logic: they just want to take revenge on the locals. This is a huge war crime live,” Mr. Zelensky said in a tweet.





Russian shelling of Ukraine’s Mykolaiv region has damaged schools, hospitals and many civilian homes.​PHOTO: GENYA SAVILOV/AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGES
Four people were hospitalized, including one who died, as a result of Russian shelling in Kherson on Monday, Ukrainian officials said.

Ukraine’s deputy prime minister urged civilians from Kherson to spend the winter in other parts of Ukraine due to the “complex security situation” and infrastructure issues in the area. Iryna Vereshchuk said in a Facebook post late Monday that citizens from Kherson, especially the elderly, those with disabilities and families with children, would be offered free relocation to other regions of the country.

Elsewhere in southeastern Ukraine, Russian shelling hit a school that was being used as a distribution point for humanitarian aid in the Zaporizhzhia region, the local governor said. The attack killed a social worker and injured two other people, said governor Oleksandr Starukh in a post on the messaging platform Telegram.

The liberation of Kherson was one of the largest symbolic victories for Ukraine in the entire war, pushing Russian forces from an area that President Vladimir Putin had weeks earlier claimed as part of Russia. Ukrainian forces have also swept into a large area of northeastern Ukraine in a separate prong of the offensive in recent months.

Recapturing the Kinburn Spit would provide key military advantages for Ukraine, allowing its forces a freer hand to operate along the Black Sea coast as it seeks to push the Kremlin’s troops from the area, military analysts said.

“Control of the Kinburn Spit would allow Ukrainian forces to relieve Russian strikes on the Ukrainian-controlled Black Sea coast, increase naval activity in the area and conduct potential operations to cross to the left [east] bank in Kherson Oblast under significantly less Russian artillery fire compared to a crossing of the Dnipro River,” said the Institute for the Study of War in an operational analysis.





Civilians from Kherson have been urged to leave to spend the winter in other parts of Ukraine.​PHOTO: BERNAT ARMANGUE/ASSOCIATED PRESS

Ukraine has increasingly challenged Russia’s dominance over the Black Sea since the beginning of the war, sinking the flagship of Moscow’s fleet in the region and using drone strikes and antiship missiles to push other Russian ships away from the key southern port city of Odessa. Russia has also blamed Ukraine for a series of attacks on its forces in Crimea, as well as an explosion that partially destroyed a bridge linking the Crimean Peninsula to Russia. Ukraine’s recapture of Kherson also ended Russia’s hopes of launching a further assault along the Black Sea coast toward Odessa, military analysts say.

Russia’s Black Sea Fleet remains a threat, however, with frigates, submarines and amphibious ships all at the Kremlin’s disposal. Russia has used some of the ships to launch Kalibr-class cruise missiles at targets on land in Ukraine, part of a recent wave of attacks on key infrastructure, especially the country’s electrical grid.

Reclaiming the Kinburn Spit could also provide Ukraine with an economic boost, making it more viable for Ukrainian authorities to reopen the port of Mykolaiv, which handled 35% of the country’s critical food exports last year. The city’s ports shipped 30 million tons of grain, metal ores and other goods in 2021, according to data from Ukraine’s ports administration.

Only three of Ukraine’s major Black Sea ports are operating, exporting grain and other food items from Odessa under an agreement with Russia, Turkey and the United Nations that opened a safe corridor for those shipments in August. Ukrainian officials pushed unsuccessfully to include the port of Mykolaiv in the agreement in recent months. Russian shelling of the city and control over the ports’ entry point at the Kinburn Spit also posed an obstacle to any of them reopening, Ukrainian officials said.

The agreement with Russia partially lifted a naval blockade imposed on Ukraine that had triggered a surge in global prices of wheat and corn. The deal remains uncertain, however, after Russia briefly suspended its participation in October, threatening to halt the shipping corridor. Moscow agreed to an extension of the deal last week.

Copyright ©2022 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8

Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine​News and insights on Russia’s attack on Ukraine and the West’s response, selected by the editors

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## Reashot Xigwin

ZeGerman said:


> Wow, normally i have plenty of critiscism for turkey (not a erdogan fan)…but this is a very nice step/gesture. Worthy of one of the Nato pillars. Hopefully more to come



Three of those listed are more like attachment for the TB-2. 

- The TRLG system not only uses GPS but can be linked with TB-2 
- If the "ground based ew" is what I'm thinking about (Koral) then the Russian can kiss whatever radar they have goodbye. 
- & the airborne EW seems to be for Iranian shaheds & for other drones the Russians might have.


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## A.P. Richelieu

One_Nation said:


> When you are brainwashed by CNN + Fox news propaganda. I thought Europeans had free media and better common sense.
> 
> It was USA that destroyed Iraqi army and destroyed the state. They admitted it many times. What they made after Saddam was a puppet regime which is why it crumbled. WMD lie was exposed soon after the attack but for slow learners like you it still holds.
> 
> I'm sure you don't care about "many PDF members" when they claim USA and India created and armed Pakistani Taliban who caused same destruction in Pakistan.
> 
> America destroyed Afghanistan through the puppet regime and fake army of 300,000 +. They brought back Taliban as plan B. It was Americans that signed an agreement to allow them back in power. It is clear by now the whole war was money laundering operation by Americans.
> Only people like you still believe in debunked American lies.


You do not watch Fox News in Sweden, and CNN, while available, is a very small contributor.
The US destroyed the illegal Baath regime.

This is not the figures of a destroyed state.




Or this.





so please show statistics that prove Iraq is a destroyed state.

I actually followed the takeover of the Taliban on the news, and they were trained, funded and armed by Pakistan. That something the Pakistani government has claimed as well. The takeover happened years after the US left the area.
A lot of PDF members make the outrageous claim that because the US funded the Mujahedin, they are responsible for the Taliban. This is like blaming a car instructor if one of his pupils drives into a crowd. The Taliban ran training camps inside Pakistan.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595100027986534400

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594979498000547840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594979078016503809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594978768015302656

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




----------



## Georg

Viet said:


> That’s a very long list. Very nice package. I must say, Ukraine gets really nice things that will make Putin sleepless. However German tanks are still missing on the list.



They recive Gepard, recovery tanks, bridge layer tanks... and most of the T-72 Ukraine recive are a circle deal with Germany were the donating country recive Leo2 for their T-72 given to Ukraine(same with BMP1 Marder ring exchange)... problem is...the Ukraine armed forces know the T- series tanks very well... would take a long time of training to adop a new tank which opens up completely new tactical possebilitys ... the Leo2 opens up completely new options the T-64, T-84, T-72 or T-80 can not deliver ... the next problem is logistic.... different ammunition for the main gun... and maintenance and repair.

BTW why people only tell Germany to send Leo 2... no one ask USA to send M1, UK to send CR2, France to send Leclerc or Italy to send Ariete

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## Reashot Xigwin

Brimstone 2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594886659681964032


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Invasion of Kazakhstan 🇰🇿 next? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595041154202058752


----------



## Paul2

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Invasion of Kazakhstan 🇰🇿 next?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595041154202058752



Lol, Kazakhstan is 5 times bigger than Ukraine, with a huge desert in the middle, and few roads.

In case of anything KZ can just retreat behind the desert, and flood Russians with their own poor conscripts.

Unlike in the democratic Ukraine, KZ president will have no qualms about troop welfare.


----------



## aziqbal

the fact that Turkey supplies heavy weapons to Ukraine and maintains strong diplomatic ties to Russia 

Make turkey the king of global diplomats 

incredible by Turkey

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595167419433160708

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## Deino

ng3ng4 said:


> ….
> 
> JOIN 🇷🇺 GO RUSSIA 🇷🇺
> 👉https://****/go_rossia




Concerning all that BS you are spreading and even more in mind of your last sentence I wonder why you still post and prefer in safety instead of joining the fight for your beloved Russia?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595095524998275074

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595100908014415872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595120263112585216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595091418715922437

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595061528776085509

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## MeFishToo

Georg said:


> They recive Gepard, recovery tanks, bridge layer tanks... and most of the T-72 Ukraine recive are a circle deal with Germany were the donating country recive Leo2 for their T-72 given to Ukraine(same with BMP1 Marder ring exchange)... problem is...the Ukraine armed forces know the T- series tanks very well... would take a long time of training to adop a new tank which opens up completely new tactical possebilitys ... the Leo2 opens up completely new options the T-64, T-84, T-72 or T-80 can not deliver ... the next problem is logistic.... different ammunition for the main gun... and maintenance and repair.
> 
> BTW why people only tell Germany to send Leo 2... no one ask USA to send M1, UK to send CR2, France to send Leclerc or Italy to send Ariete


Only because Germany had alot to loose and were hesitating from the beginning. Germany is the most powerfull country in Europe and it is essential for european security that Germany forgets the past and take the lead in a crisis like this.


----------



## merzifonlu

Our folks always understate their weapon ranges. Therefore, do not believe the "70 km range" statement for the TRLG-230. IMO that range should be at least 100 km. The second, İsmail Demir, had recently announced that the range of a TRLG type missile had been increased to 150 km. But we don't know which missile (TRLG-230 or TRLG-300?) he mentioned. There are speculations that it is TRLG-230.

By the way, that number 230 refers to the rocket diameter in mm. (*T*opçu *R*oketi *L*azer *G*üdümlü - *230* mm) Meaning "Artillery Rocket Laser Guided - 230 mm"


----------



## Corruptistan

Paul2 said:


> Lol, Kazakhstan is 5 times bigger than Ukraine, with a huge desert in the middle, and few roads.
> 
> In case of anything KZ can just retreat behind the desert, and flood Russians with their own poor conscripts.
> 
> Unlike in the democratic Ukraine, KZ president will have no qualms about troop welfare.



However the Kazakh military and average Kazakh soldier is most likely way worse than the Ukrainian military and the average Ukrainian soldier.

Kazakhstan has barely 25 million people too with most of the population living in the South.

I think that Russia would have a WAY easier time invading Kazakhstan (most of the territory) and Russia would probably only be interested in the Northern part of Kazakhstan which is sparsely populated and lowland steppe/desert. The South would be the main problem.

Large Russian minority in Kazakhstan. Less of a Western reaction to Russia invading a Muslim majority and non-democratic country. No NATO borders next door or pro-US countries.

Ironically China would have the largest problem with Russia annexing parts of Kazakhstan or trying to turn Central Asia into a Russian sphere again. Given the Belt and Road project and Chinese ambitions in the region and using Central Asia as a Chinese trade transit to Europe, Middle East and potentially South Asia.

Anyway such an invasion is very unlikely, Russia has a hard enough time with Ukraine for them (Putin) to start another foolish/very costly invasion elsewhere.

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## Paul2

Khan2727 said:


> Ironically China would have the largest problem with Russia annexing parts of Kazakhstan or trying to turn Central Asia into a Russian sphere again. Given the Belt and Road project and Chinese ambitions in the region and using Central Asia as a Chinese trade transit to Europe, Middle East and potentially South Asia.



OBOR was an excercise on "how to waste RMB 8 trillion" for largely zero gain.

While I absolutely agree that KZ army might well be even worse off than RUAF, but the guy in power would have no qualms about sacrificing even more people, and money than Putin, i believe.

Takayev was a CPSU member, and given he was given a diplo assignment at a relatively young age, he was much higher rank than Putin.

He knew the real state of USSR economy, and military at the time of USSR's dissolution, while Putin likely didn't. That's why he is not afraid to boldly insult him in public.

Second, Orenburg region is a striking distance from KZ, and go check what Russians have there.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594933962228785153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595178423487713280

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## aviator_fan

The unintended consequence as the construction of LNG facilities in US (plants and ship terminals) has made the US largest LNG exporter (emphasis is on liquid). Rapid construction in Europe has made it possible to utilize this.

Its still not cheap but its there. A friend recently came back from Copenhagen and people are sitting out in bars and restaurants with heated lamps. That is pure stupidity and waste but it shows that they can afford it and hasn't hit the people hard enough to adjust their social habits.

Remains to be seen if putting oil cap strategy in Dec is going to help anybody or have the oppsite consequence.









The United States became the world’s largest LNG exporter in the first half of 2022







www.eia.gov





The United States became the world’s largest LNG exporter in the first half of 2022​





*Data source: *U.S. Energy Information Administration, _Liquefaction Capacity Table_, and U.S. Department of Energy _LNG reports_
*Note: *June 2022 LNG exports are EIA estimates based on tanker shipping data. LNG export capacity is an estimated peak LNG production capacity of all operational U.S. LNG export facilities.
_Reposted July 26 to correct footnotes and minor text edits_.
The United States became the world’s largest liquefied natural gas (LNG) exporter during the first half of 2022, according to data from _CEDIGAZ_. Compared with the second half of 2021, U.S. LNG exports increased by 12% in the first half of 2022, averaging 11.2 billion cubic feet per day (Bcf/d). U.S. LNG exports continued to grow for three reasons—increased LNG export capacity, increased international natural gas and LNG prices, and increased global demand, particularly in Europe.


According to our estimates, installed U.S. LNG export capacity has expanded by 1.9 Bcf/d nominal (2.1 Bcf/d peak) since November 2021. The capacity additions included a sixth train at the Sabine Pass LNG, 18 new mid-scale liquefaction trains at the Calcasieu Pass LNG, and increased LNG production capacity at Sabine Pass and Corpus Christi LNG facilities. As of July 2022, we estimate that U.S. LNG liquefaction capacity averaged 11.4 Bcf/d, with a shorter-term peak capacity of 13.9 Bcf/d.


International natural gas and LNG prices hit record highs in the last quarter of 2021 and first half of 2022. Prices at the Title Transfer Facility (TTF) in the Netherlands have been trading at record highs since October 2021. TTF averaged $30.94 per million British thermal units (MMBtu) during the first half of 2022. LNG spot prices in Asia have also been high, averaging $29.50/MMBtu during the same period.


Since the end of last year, countries in Europe have increasingly imported more LNG to compensate for lower pipeline imports from Russia and to fill historically low natural gas storage inventories. LNG imports in the EU and UK increased by 63% during the first half of 2022 to average 14.8 Bcf/d.

Most U.S. LNG exports went to the EU and the UK during the first five months of this year, accounting for 64%, or 7.3 Bcf/d, of the total U.S. LNG exports. Similar to 2021, the United States sent the most LNG to the EU and UK during the first half of the year, providing 47% of the 14.8 Bcf/d of Europe's total LNG imports, followed by Qatar at 15%, Russia at 14%, and four African countries combined at 17%.


In June, the United States exported 11% less LNG than the 11.4 Bcf/d average exports during the first five months of 2022, mainly as a result of an unplanned outage at the Freeport LNG export facility. Freeport LNG is expected to resume partial liquefaction operations in early October 2022.


Utilization of the peak capacity at the seven U.S. LNG export facilities averaged 87% during the first half of 2022, mainly before the Freeport LNG outage, which is similar to the utilization on average during 2021.





*Data source: *U.S. Energy Information Administration, _Liquefaction Capacity Table_, and U.S. Department of Energy _LNG reports_
*Note: *Daily utilization of U.S. liquefied natural gas (LNG) export capacity is calculated as a 30-day moving average.
 
*Principal contributor: *Victoria Zaretskaya

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainians have been owned in these battles. They were suicidal to attack a well-prepared defensive position of the LPR (Luhansk People's Republic). As a result, the attacking Ukrainian forces were wiped out.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595197589565198337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595200883339534336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595202171146219520

I said wiped out!

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595217598144208898

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## Vergennes

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595217598144208898
> View attachment 899703



Look at their faces,they know they are pure cannon fodder.

BTW if you wanted another proof of how Russians are such a bunch of liar this is the map of the situation in Kherson by wargonzo.......


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595327595276648448

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## ZeGerman

The


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukrainians have been owned in these battles. They were suicidal to attack a well-prepared defensive position of the LPR (Luhansk People's Republic). As a result, the attacking Ukrainian forces were wiped out.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595197589565198337
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595200883339534336
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595202171146219520
> 
> I said wiped out!


sad loss of life. 

However you do realize that “friendly brothers of the russian world” just drove towards trenches in apc and civilian cars, crawled closer under mortar and artillery fire…then to trench fighting (part 4) despite heavy fire and losses? 

That is how strong their motivation to fight against the russian invaders is.


----------



## Viet

Georg said:


> They recive Gepard, recovery tanks, bridge layer tanks... and most of the T-72 Ukraine recive are a circle deal with Germany were the donating country recive Leo2 for their T-72 given to Ukraine(same with BMP1 Marder ring exchange)... problem is...the Ukraine armed forces know the T- series tanks very well... would take a long time of training to adop a new tank which opens up completely new tactical possebilitys ... the Leo2 opens up completely new options the T-64, T-84, T-72 or T-80 can not deliver ... the next problem is logistic.... different ammunition for the main gun... and maintenance and repair.
> 
> BTW why people only tell Germany to send Leo 2... no one ask USA to send M1, UK to send CR2, France to send Leclerc or Italy to send Ariete


Ukraine has the support by 50 nation contact group. I am pretty sure Ukraine asks every country for tanks. It’s just Germany has the most lethal tanks, Ukraine likes them first and foremost.


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## Raj-Hindustani

Very Sad - There should not be any physical war in 21 century.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Very Sad - There should not be any physical war in 21 century.


_Star Trek: The Original Series_ season 1 episode 23 ~ A Taste of Armageddon


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Here is the Telegram link showing Ukrainians getting owned in battles. 

https://****/geromanat/3400

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## Reashot Xigwin

Paul2 said:


> Lol, Kazakhstan is 5 times bigger than Ukraine, with a huge desert in the middle, and few roads.
> 
> In case of anything KZ can just retreat behind the desert, and flood Russians with their own poor conscripts.
> 
> Unlike in the democratic Ukraine, KZ president will have no qualms about troop welfare.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595167737055219727


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Did someone managed to make a time machine in russia


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595320715086946304


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Now it's legal to call Russian a terrorist. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595374807125823490

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## One_Nation

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You do not watch Fox News in Sweden, and CNN, while available, is a very small contributor.
> The US destroyed the illegal Baath regime.
> 
> This is not the figures of a destroyed state.
> View attachment 899537
> 
> Or this.
> View attachment 899538
> 
> 
> so please show statistics that prove Iraq is a destroyed state.
> 
> I actually followed the takeover of the Taliban on the news, and they were trained, funded and armed by Pakistan. That something the Pakistani government has claimed as well. The takeover happened years after the US left the area.
> A lot of PDF members make the outrageous claim that because the US funded the Mujahedin, they are responsible for the Taliban. This is like blaming a car instructor if one of his pupils drives into a crowd. The Taliban ran training camps inside Pakistan.


Trying to be more pro American than Americans themselves? Even Americans are ashamed of fake wars yet there are diehard dummies brainwashed by CNN who keep repeating their lies.






You are trying to manipulate your own graph. Who brought down the Iraqi GDP in the first place? Those were the most murderous sanctions anywhere in the world. If the sanctions are lifted then GDP will grow. Nothing to brag about there.
Why don't you apply the same GDP growth model to your own country to bring more progress?

*USA destroyed "illegal" baath regime. *Who helped them into power in the first place?





US and British Support for Hussein Regime


Global Policy Forum is a policy watchdog that follows the work of the United Nations. We promote accountability and citizen participation in decisions on peace and security, social justice and international law.




archive.globalpolicy.org





You know everything about taliban because you "followed the takeover of taliban". Time to change your channel.






Why would taliban need weapons and money from Pakistan?
- Billion + dollars of USA aid to Afghan puppet regime went to Taliban.
- Afghan puppet army sold their weapons to taliban.
- Under USA occupation, poppy trade grew bringing more cash for taliban.
- CIA organized weapons from all over the world for taliban worht billions of dollars. 
- Russia left a huge weapons dump in Afghanistan.
- Afghan puppet government + US military paid protection money to taliban. Instead of fighting they found it much easier to pay to maintain peace.
- taliban collected taxes from all over Afghanistan under USA occupation.

+ Saudi money:








Saudis Bankroll Taliban, Even as King Officially Supports Afghan Government (Published 2016)


Saudi Arabia has voiced support for American efforts to nourish Afghanistan’s democracy, but it has also lavishly funded Sunni extremism under various guises.




www.nytimes.com





In this situation they could supply weapons and money to Pakistan and still be rich and armed.


----------



## thetutle

Khan2727 said:


> Anyway such an invasion is very unlikely, Russia has a hard enough time with Ukraine for them (Putin) to start another foolish/very costly invasion elsewhere.


I think invasion of Kazakhstan is almost a certainty. Kazakhs stand no chance of defending themselves. 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukrainians have been owned in these battles. They were suicidal to attack a well-prepared defensive position of the LPR (Luhansk People's Republic). As a result, the attacking Ukrainian forces were wiped out.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595197589565198337
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595200883339534336
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595202171146219520
> 
> I said wiped out!


I see about 12 Ukranian casualties in all those videos. Most of them are similar to Armenian videos, where they show a close up of enemy soldiers and then they show unrelated explosions in other places. 

Ukranian and Azeri videos, you actually see the other side blown away. Just something ive noticed.

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## jhungary

One_Nation said:


> Trying to be more pro American than Americans themselves? Even Americans are ashamed of fake wars yet there are diehard dummies brainwashed by CNN who keep repeating their lies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to manipulate your own graph. Who brought down the Iraqi GDP in the first place? Those were the most murderous sanctions anywhere in the world. If the sanctions are lifted then GDP will grow. Nothing to brag about there.
> Why don't you apply the same GDP growth model to your own country to bring more progress?
> 
> *USA destroyed "illegal" baath regime. *Who helped them into power in the first place?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US and British Support for Hussein Regime
> 
> 
> Global Policy Forum is a policy watchdog that follows the work of the United Nations. We promote accountability and citizen participation in decisions on peace and security, social justice and international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> archive.globalpolicy.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know everything about taliban because you "followed the takeover of taliban". Time to change your channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would taliban need weapons and money from Pakistan?
> - Billion + dollars of USA aid to Afghan puppet regime went to Taliban.
> - Afghan puppet army sold their weapons to taliban.
> - Under USA occupation, poppy trade grew bringing more cash for taliban.
> - CIA organized weapons from all over the world for taliban worht billions of dollars.
> - Russia left a huge weapons dump in Afghanistan.
> - Afghan puppet government + US military paid protection money to taliban. Instead of fighting they found it much easier to pay to maintain peace.
> - taliban collected taxes from all over Afghanistan under USA occupation.
> 
> + Saudi money:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudis Bankroll Taliban, Even as King Officially Supports Afghan Government (Published 2016)
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia has voiced support for American efforts to nourish Afghanistan’s democracy, but it has also lavishly funded Sunni extremism under various guises.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this situation they could supply weapons and money to Pakistan and still be rich and armed.


CNN is actually anti-Iraqi war......as they were left leaning.



CNN.com - Cities jammed in worldwide protest of war in Iraq - Feb. 16, 2003










Media's failure on Iraq still stings | CNN


Howard Kurtz says the media still labors under the burden of the mistakes it made in 2003 in failing to reflect skepticism about the Iraq war




edition.cnn.com






CNN.com - Anti-war demonstrators rally around the world - Jan. 19, 2003



And CNN is known to hire Middle Eastern Activists such as Octavia Nasr, which ironically was fired by CNN for her supportive message on Hezbollah leader using CNN blog after public pressure, similar to what Chris Cuomo went thru last year before the cut. 






Octavia Nasr - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





On the other hand, both CNN and Fox are actually fringe media, they don't have that big of a following and both were not considered mainstream in the US.

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## One_Nation

jhungary said:


> CNN is actually anti-Iraqi war......as they were left leaning.
> 
> 
> 
> CNN.com - Cities jammed in worldwide protest of war in Iraq - Feb. 16, 2003
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Media's failure on Iraq still stings | CNN
> 
> 
> Howard Kurtz says the media still labors under the burden of the mistakes it made in 2003 in failing to reflect skepticism about the Iraq war
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CNN.com - Anti-war demonstrators rally around the world - Jan. 19, 2003
> 
> 
> 
> And CNN is known to hire Middle Eastern Activists such as Octavia Nasr, which ironically was fired by CNN for her supportive message on Hezbollah leader using CNN blog after public pressure, similar to what Chris Cuomo went thru last year before the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Octavia Nasr - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, both CNN and Fox are actually fringe media, they don't have that big of a following and both were not considered mainstream in the US.


Regardless of their leanings, they are important tools of American war propaganda. mainstream media that includes CNN and Fox are influential and they shape public opinion and have produced a lot of false believers all over the world.


----------



## jhungary

One_Nation said:


> Regardless of their leanings, they are important tools of American war propaganda. mainstream media that includes CNN and Fox are influential and they shape public opinion and have produced a lot of false believers all over the world.


Again, I will not consider both CNN and Fox are mainstream, both are cable news network, CNN have less than 10 millions viewership and Fox about 25 million.

And as I point out CNN is actually opposing the war in Iraq.

On the other hand, you cannot have a world that only have one dimension, like you, who have opposite view than most US mainstream media, there are always going to be view that is pro-US mainstream media from the beginning. The "Media War" is actually a non-starter to begin with. Because if you are watching Fox from the beginning, you are ALREADY digesting their agenda, otherwise you wouldn't watch Fox, same goes with CNN or any other cable news network.

Not saying Media didn't peddle the war or US agenda, but both war and US agenda, as I explained, would simply not ceased even if media stop doing so.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595380984832462848

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595413241643077633


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

That was quick... 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595150005333299202

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## Corruptistan

thetutle said:


> I think invasion of Kazakhstan is almost a certainty. Kazakhs stand no chance of defending themselves.
> 
> I see about 12 Ukranian casualties in all those videos. Most of them are similar to Armenian videos, where they show a close up of enemy soldiers and then they show unrelated explosions in other places.
> 
> Ukranian and Azeri videos, you actually see the other side blown away. Just something ive noticed.



You really think that? Kazakhstan is a sitting dog in many ways but I don’t think that Putin is this reckless. Unless a coup occurs where some ultranationalists gain power and decide to annex northern Kazakhstan. They can always claim that it is a fake/artificial country created by the USSR.

Anyway Belarus is the main price IMO. Already fully Russified and most importantly a country with very long NATO borders.

As for the drone videos, I share the same opinion.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595108806534406144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595192707164823552


Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595413241643077633







Spoiler: Graphic - Ukrainian saboteurs getting shot down in Voronezh region





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595420745835991041


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595404161826406401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595408183031390209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595402851349667840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595399686252281859

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## Ali_Baba

Russian Colonel Arrested For Demanding A Washing Machine As A Bribe


A military court in Moscow has sent a colonel from the General Staff of Russia's Armed Forces to pretrial detention for two months on a charge of demanding a washing machine as a bribe.




www.rferl.org






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595044864344920070
What is it with Russians and washinig machines? I mean - how backward is Russia !!!!!

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## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595404161826406401
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595408183031390209
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595402851349667840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595399686252281859


Are they seriously saying that UKR AD missiles are the cause for all the residential damage in the war? 😐


----------



## F-22Raptor

New $400M package for Ukraine

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595454431323197440

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595466342261719040


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595454431323197440



Oryx is gonna have kittens trying to count all of those destroyed/damaged equipment !!!!!!!!!!! lol !!!!!!!!!

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## Mista

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592420675113095168

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Mista said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592420675113095168



All Russian elites criticizing the satanist west while they send their kids to live and study in the west,spend their holidays in the west,have houses in the west,enjoy the western way of life while +20% of russians still shit outside.


----------



## Viet

Mista said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592420675113095168


I bet 100 euros. His underwear comes from Bangladesh, shoes from Vietnam, trousers from China, glasses from Italy. Nothing is made in Russia.


----------



## Mista

Vergennes said:


> All Russian elites criticizing the satanist west while they send their kids to live and study in the west,spend their holidays in the west,have houses in the west,enjoy the western way of life while +20% of russians still shit outside.



A popular phrase on Chinese internet:











反美是工作赴美是生活 Example Sentences - Mandarin Chinese-English Dictionary & Thesaurus - YellowBridge


Free online talking dictionary with sample sentences, handwriting recognition, fuzzy pinyin matches, word decomposition, etc.




www.yellowbridge.com

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## NotSure

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595404161826406401
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595408183031390209
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595402851349667840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595399686252281859


This is the result of the american "Airdef" system NASAMS. Works 100% effective against civ. buildings. But not against Russian missiles, because Nato understands a shit about air def.

Looking forward to see how IRIS-T wil destroy civ. buildings, because the retarded ukropian Nazis are using it right in the middle of the city.

"We will fight to the last ukrainian" - Lindsey Graham

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## Ali_Baba

Britain to send iconic Sea King helicopters to Ukraine


Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said it will be the first time piloted aircraft were sent to the war-torn nation since Russia's invasion.




www.dailymail.co.uk





UK sending retired Sea Kings to Ukraine. UK's retired platforms are more sophisticated than most of what Russia is using in the Ukranian-Russia war...

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Britain to send iconic Sea King helicopters to Ukraine
> 
> 
> Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said it will be the first time piloted aircraft were sent to the war-torn nation since Russia's invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK sending retired Sea Kings to Ukraine. UK's retired platforms are more sophisticated than most of what Russia is using in the Ukranian-Russia war...


Was going to report this. 

Notice there are 10 crew trained but 3 choppers send?

It mostly going to be used in Naval Interdiction.


----------



## The SC

3 Ukrainian nuclear power plants neutralized and shut down by Russia..


----------



## aviator_fan

One_Nation said:


> Regardless of their leanings, they are important tools of American war propaganda. mainstream media that includes CNN and Fox are influential and they shape public opinion and have produced a lot of false believers all over the world.


Which country do you live in? If its Pakistan, they are not subject to military dictate of being shut down by PEMRA because a certain anchor person is getting too close. If its in Russia, they are not towing the party line. No news channel has been shut down nor reporters given threats.

They are reporting what they feel like reporting and in the Iraq war, they were very clear on the destruction that was unleashed as a result of dismantling the army and the sectarian violence that followed.

Nobody in US watching these channels was living under the hype of neo-cons reshaping the middle east map (which is what they would have been if it was Russian TV or Saudi TV). There were those expressed via protests, and then the silent majority that first voted the Republicans out of Congress (in 2006) as a path to changing trajectory.

What is true is that that was 20 years ago and a whole new generations have grown that don't remember or care for that war and starting their clock.

So propoganda term really doesn't hold true.



Ali_Baba said:


> Russian Colonel Arrested For Demanding A Washing Machine As A Bribe
> 
> 
> A military court in Moscow has sent a colonel from the General Staff of Russia's Armed Forces to pretrial detention for two months on a charge of demanding a washing machine as a bribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595044864344920070
> What is it with Russians and washinig machines? I mean - how backward is Russia !!!!!


Because they interpreted this Special Operation as a Laundry Operation to where they could wear clean clothes.



Vergennes said:


> All Russian elites criticizing the satanist west while they send their kids to live and study in the west,spend their holidays in the west,have houses in the west,enjoy the western way of life while +20% of russians still shit outside.


Don't forget they like to ride western performance vehicles and keep their western built yatchs there too. Putin's own motorcade is full G-classes.

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## dbc

NotSure said:


> This is the result of the american "Airdef" system NASAMS. Works 100% effective against civ. buildings. But not against Russian missiles, because Nato understands a shit about air def.
> 
> Looking forward to see how IRIS-T wil destroy civ. buildings, because the retarded ukropian Nazis are using it right in the middle of the city.
> 
> "We will fight to the last ukrainian" - Lindsey Graham



NASAMS are armed with AMRAAM, the warhead weighs 22.7 kgs. A 22 kg warhead isn't going to destroy a building- a small garden shed maybe. I once thought Russia was good with propaganda but I guess they just suck at everything.

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## NotSure

dbc said:


> NASAMS are armed with AMRAAM, the warhead weighs 22.7 kgs. A 22 kg warhead isn't going to destroy a building- a small garden shed maybe. I once thought Russia was good with propaganda but I guess they just suck at everything.


The building is not destroyed and your moronic nazi friends have other air def systems placed right in the middle of the town.

Calm down, so called "analyst". Too bad this rocket did not landed again in polakistan, so you geniuses had to keep your mouth closed like the last time, bcs you are afraid.

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## Hack-Hook

dbc said:


> NASAMS are armed with AMRAAM, the warhead weighs 22.7 kgs. A 22 kg warhead isn't going to destroy a building- a small garden shed maybe. I once thought Russia was good with propaganda but I guess they just suck at everything.


I'm not worried about nasam do some damage , at best it can damage as much as Palestinian home made rockets.
but there is two other system that can do a lot more damage one is buk (70kg warhead) and another is S-300 (100-150kg warhead) and those S-300 in Ukraine don't have shining records


----------



## dbc

NotSure said:


> The building is not destroyed and your moronic nazi friends have other air def systems placed right in the middle of the town.
> 
> Calm down, so called "analyst". Too bad this rocket did not landed again in polakistan, so you geniuses had to keep your mouth closed like the last time, bcs you are afraid.



oh dear, why so mad? did you miss your great washing machine heist quota this month? You are the one that claimed NASAMS destroyed buildings or did you forget this moronic post?



NotSure said:


> This is the result of the american "Airdef" system NASAMS. Works 100% effective against civ. buildings. But not against Russian missiles, because Nato understands a shit about air def.

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## NotSure

dbc said:


> oh dear, why so mad? did you miss your great washing machine heist quota this month? You are the one that claimed NASAMS destroyed buildings or did you forget this moronic post?


Hit != Destroyed, Mr. so called "Analyst".

German saying: Wer lesen kann, ist klar im Vorteil.

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## jhungary

Russian is funnelling troop and try to dig in around Melitopol, while explosion were heard in Tokmak area.









Russians Impose 'Forced Labor' In Melitopol To Stop Powerful Resistance Movement Of Locals


The mayor of Melitopol in Ukraine said resistance forces destroyed an ammunition depot and a railway bridge used by Russian troops to transport heavy weapons.




www.ibtimes.com













Powerful explosions rang out in occupied Tokmak


According to the mayor of Melitopol Fedorov, the information regarding strikes on enemy positions is being clarified.




www.txtreport.com





Well, most likely Ukraine is going to open a 3rd front trying to cut Russian troop in half by going straight down from Zaporizhzhia to Tokmak and then onto Melitopol.

At least this is what the Russian think.


----------



## dbc

Hack-Hook said:


> I'm not worried about nasam do some damage , at best it can damage as much as Palestinian home made rockets.
> but there is two other system that can do a lot more damage one is buk (70kg warhead) and another is S-300 (100-150kg warhead) and those S-300 in Ukraine don't have shining records


the Putinista specifically mentioned NASAMS. NASAMS guards the White House and important government buildings such as parliament and such in 17 capitals around the world.

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## NotSure

dbc said:


> the Putinista specifically mentioned NASAMS. NASAMS guards the White House and important government buildings such as parliament and such in 17 capitals around the world.


"NASAMS "guards" the white house".

NASAMS.

Guards.

Lol.

Against what? AN-2?

Reactions: Love Love:
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## MeFishToo

aviator_fan said:


> The unintended consequence as the construction of LNG facilities in US (plants and ship terminals) has made the US largest LNG exporter (emphasis is on liquid). Rapid construction in Europe has made it possible to utilize this.
> 
> Its still not cheap but its there. A friend recently came back from Copenhagen and people are sitting out in bars and restaurants with heated lamps. That is pure stupidity and waste but it shows that they can afford it and hasn't hit the people hard enough to adjust their social habits.
> 
> Remains to be seen if putting oil cap strategy in Dec is going to help anybody or have the oppsite consequence.


To be honest, energy prices in Denmark is mostly a topic driven by the news. Its not such a big problem for private consumers, if not depending on natural gas for heating - but prices have dropped significantly, down 60% from its peak. Gas consumers are shifting to electricity (heat pump) or district heating as soon as posible.
The consequences like higher prices for milk and butter, that is something people notice and talk about.


----------



## dbc

NotSure said:


> Hit != Destroyed, Mr. so called "Analyst".
> 
> German saying: Wer lesen kann, ist klar im Vorteil.



do you have proof NASAM hit a building? All I see is NASAMS killing your fellow Russians.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593888128577769472

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## Ali_Baba

dbc said:


> do you have proof NASAM hit a building? All I see is NASAMS killing your fellow Russians.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593888128577769472


 
ooohhh - another Su35S down !!!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595398585885024257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595397363077619713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595393563323408385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595392778682376192


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595461800828567554

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595506572523933705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595327340124508160


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595466342261719040





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595467373049516034

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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> Satanist children organ harvesting. What happened to the Nazis ?
> 
> A dilemma . Should this be reported for spreading BS , or just leave it and let people here decide for themselves , what you and your reports are worth . . .
> 
> 
> ~


Still better than the BS you and your Israeli apartheiders spread.

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595398585885024257
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595397363077619713
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595393563323408385
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595392778682376192


Yet it didn't affect this guy making Youtube Video......






Or this girl






Sure, they don't have electricity for winter yet still able to make Youtube video.....lol It must have been so dired in Ukraine from being able to make 2 video a day down to 1??.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595412890080935938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595447211395014667

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595445141401133058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595192044250877952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595507880043679758

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595504700627030036

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595442740875169798


----------



## jhungary

Ukrainian Commandos Have Made an Amphibious Landing On The Kinburn Spit


In seizing the spit and the adjacent Kinburn Peninsula, the Ukrainians would flank the defensive positions the Russians are building on their side of the Dnipro River.




www.forbes.com





For those who don't know or understand why Ukraine would land in Kinburn Spit. This is the explanation

The objective from Kinburn is to dilute Russian force, to place some force facing Westward, putting Russia in a militarily disadvantage position. It also serve to control both side of the Dniprovska gulf.

Together with Snake Island and the recent acquisition of RN Sea King Helicopter, this most likely turn to sea interdiction of Ukrainian side of Black Sea and dismantle the Naval Blockade that Russian Black sea fleet put up since the beginning of the war. 

Noticed that Sea King is an excellent Sub Hunter (only subpar to Merlin or Romeo Hawk) and since the sinking of Moskva and the attack of the anchoring Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, Russia has been heavily relied on their 4 Kilo Class Submarine in the black sea fleet to enact the Blockade, with Kinburn split taken and Snake Island taken and no fighter asset in Crimea, this will allow the Ukrainian Sea King patrol to go hunt Russian sub on their side of Black Sea. Since by taking both Snake Island and Kinburn Split pushes Russian SAM out of their range.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595456627431608320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595440864280584192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595455473402232834

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## Vergennes

Denazification of Russians ongoing


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595514675113893889

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## NotSure

dbc said:


> do you have proof NASAM hit a building? All I see is NASAMS killing your fellow Russians.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593888128577769472


Ok, Mr. "Analyst", it's all about your feelings.


NotSure said:


> "NASAMS "guards" the white house".
> 
> NASAMS.
> 
> Guards.
> 
> Lol.
> 
> Against what? AN-2?


Wow, i am impressed. Even the "deino"-something has Mod reacted. He got triggered really hard.

Wenn das das angelsächsiche Herrchen angegriffen wird, dann ist der BRD-Zwergdackel sofort zur Stelle. Um sich zwischen den Beinchen zu verstecken und laut zu kläffen.

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## Shawnee

Taiwan copies Iranian Shahed drone









Taiwan Displays Its Own 'Ukraine Blaster' Shahed-136 Kamikaze Drones Amid Simmering Tensions With China


China and Taiwan are keenly watching the drones deployed for reconnaissance and surveillance drones after the Russia-Ukraine war.




eurasiantimes.com


----------



## Shawnee

Most popular Russians tweeter account begs Putin to buy Iranian drones as the best way for this war:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594796489871605760

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## Reashot Xigwin

Ali_Baba said:


> Russian Colonel Arrested For Demanding A Washing Machine As A Bribe
> 
> 
> A military court in Moscow has sent a colonel from the General Staff of Russia's Armed Forces to pretrial detention for two months on a charge of demanding a washing machine as a bribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595044864344920070
> What is it with Russians and washinig machines? I mean - how backward is Russia !!!!!



Never ask how backward Russian society is because even they can surprise themselves. 

Another consequence of the war. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595116766803668993

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595454047867539457


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

What I like about this is that Russia really doesn't have any friends in the international stage. What's worse are this are supposed to be their puppet states. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595347874379976704

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595510331270434842

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> I think invasion of Kazakhstan is almost a certainty. Kazakhs stand no chance of defending themselves.



I would doubt this statement.

As I said before, the country us 5 times bigger, most of it is deserts, and the government is a de-facto dictatorship.

They definitely can, and will force a stalemate.

They don't have nearly as much air defence as Ukraine, but still something, and a weakened RUAF will likely get stuck somewhere on few major roads in the middle of the country.


----------



## The SC

Ukraine without electricity..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595478693790597141

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595719117860143106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595725520964050944

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NotSure



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595718793182969857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595679308559028224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595682489259155456

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## Reashot Xigwin

Some palate cleanser... 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594774326548791296

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## Reashot Xigwin

We have reach the stage where Turkey is the better guarantors of security to Armenia than Russia. What a world we live in. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595720663427334144

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## Vergennes

And..... another frontal Russian assault repelled on Bakhmut/Soledar axis.... and it's been going like that for months and months...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595748571772600323


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595735554687176704



Meanwhile on the Svatove axis Russians are throwing waves after waves of mobiks in hope to slow the Ukrainians.... pure cannon fodder.

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## Reashot Xigwin

And the threat are already coming. Stay classy rusky. This is why country like Russia and china have no friends. They only sees things through a transactional zero sum view. Either you bow to them or not. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595739505658429440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595731113628123136

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russian just being russian

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595519245106188288


----------



## Shawnee

Information about a new fab production unit is released in Iran. Images are faded out for security.

These units can produce chips for Shahed domestically when needed.
See Shahed 129 FLIR in the movie.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595646782213586946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595647979335065601
See the wafer here

@BHAN85
@1ndy


A hundred more fab companies available on the list that I sent before.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595762986991362049

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595709604625022976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595703247863521280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595515700810027008

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595709604625022976
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595703247863521280
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595515700810027008





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595693005524144128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595752687609516034

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595762606908002305
https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1595506572523933705

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595506572523933705
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595739099427643392




Third time you are posting this video don't know what you're trying to prove here.

About that "missile launch" it's at least a four months old video of a Russian missile being launched as if you thought we wouldn't notice. Nice try though.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/w3odgx


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> And..... another frontal Russian assault repelled on Bakhmut/Soledar axis.... and it's been going like that for months and months...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595748571772600323
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595735554687176704
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile on the Svatove axis Russians are throwing waves after waves of mobiks in hope to slow the Ukrainians.... pure cannon fodder.



You're just making stories. Russians are delivering blow after blow on your beloved Ukies. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595735363414278146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595507880043679758

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595705000839499777


Vergennes said:


> Third time you are posting this video don't know what you're trying to prove here.
> 
> About that "missile launch" it's at least a four months old video of a Russian missile being launched as if you thought we wouldn't notice. Nice try though.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/w3odgx




I don't have it in the list that I posted. Where did you get that from?

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're just making stories. Russians are delivering blow after blow on your beloved Ukies. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595735363414278146
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595507880043679758
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595705000839499777
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have it in the list that I posted. Where did you get that from?



Just over here for exemple.






Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2


the Putinista specifically mentioned NASAMS. NASAMS guards the White House and important government buildings such as parliament and such in 17 capitals around the world. "NASAMS "guards" the white house". NASAMS. Guards. Lol. Against what? AN-2?:D



defence.pk





BTW, Russia delivers so much blows that they were recently thrown out of Kherson, Lyman, Izyum, Kupiansk, Balakliya.... and so on. Russians are just slowing down their defeat by throwing waves and waves of poorly equipped and trained mobiks.

Meanwhile more and more prisoner exchanges are happening.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595797406431444997
While Ukrainians will be welcomed by their people as heroes Russians will just "welcome back" their Pows with sledgehammers hits against their heads...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Just over here for exemple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2
> 
> 
> the Putinista specifically mentioned NASAMS. NASAMS guards the White House and important government buildings such as parliament and such in 17 capitals around the world. "NASAMS "guards" the white house". NASAMS. Guards. Lol. Against what? AN-2?:D
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



What are you referring to in that link? You need to mention the post# and explain what is it that you disagree with.



Vergennes said:


> BTW, Russia delivers so much blows that they were recently thrown out of Kherson, Lyman, Izyum, Kupiansk, Balakliya.... and so on. Russians are just slowing down their defeat by throwing waves and waves of poorly equipped and trained mobiks.




Because Russia only deployed 150,000 men while Ukrainian field over 700,000 men. The Ukies are sending human waves in order to overcome the small Russian defenders. Besides, this is a war that the whole of NATO is fighting. In response, Russia triggered partial mobilization, and those are gonna be ready in the Winter, When those 300,000 men join the battle, Ukies will hopefully be done. Let us not forget Ukraine is thrown into darkness. You want to be NATO's cannon fodder, you stay in the darkness is the Russian motto.




Vergennes said:


> Meanwhile more and more prisoner exchanges are happening.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595797406431444997
> While Ukrainians will be welcomed by their people as heroes Russians will just "welcome back" their Pows with sledgehammers hits against their heads...




Ukrainians killed the POWs they held, but Russians treated them humanely. That is why you see Ukrainian pows turned over to Zelenky admin.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What are you referring to in that link? You need to mention the post# and explain what is it that you disagree with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because Russia only deployed 150,000 men while Ukrainian field over 700,000 men. The Ukies are sending human waves in order to overcome the small Russian defenders. Besides, this is a war that the whole of NATO is fighting. In response, Russia triggered partial mobilization, and those are gonna be ready in the Winter, When those 300,000 men join the battle, Ukies will hopefully be done. Let us not forget Ukraine is thrown into darkness. You want to be NATO's cannon fodder, you stay in the darkness is the Russian motto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians killed the POWs they held, but Russians treated them humanely. That is why you see Ukrainian pows turned over to Zelenky admin.



1) I said you posted the video at least three times and provided the link to your post where you posted it earlier.

2) Much more Russian soldiers were involved in the initial invasion and to support the whole war effort. Over 700.000 Ukrainian soldiers are involved in the war effort that includes all internal troops,reservists,other branches,border guards etc. Doesn't mean over 700.000 Ukrainians are actually fighting in the Donbass or elsewhere.

BTW it's quite hilarious because the Ukrainians were and are still outnumbered in the Donbass yet they are still repelling waves after waves of wagnerites,russians,tiktok chechens,mobik and DNR/LNR cannon fodders for months. It's the Russians who are sending waves after waves in Bakhmut for exemple yet can't fcking capture a road intersection for months.

Russia's elite troops failed in the initial push yet you think 300.000 mobiks who are poorly led,trained and equipped "will be ready in the winter". Surviving the winter would be a good start already. They are only here to slow down Ukrainians and act as cannon fodder nothing else. If you think they are here to launch a supa dupa biltzkrieg,you must be so much high on copium,not even Russians believe it.

As for POWs, you just have to compare previous exchanges and see how Ukrainians and Russians look,you'll see a good difference in treatments.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595771571318267908

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## patero

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Some palate cleanser...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594774326548791296


I wonder what the thought processes of the artist were at the time this piece was created. Or maybe they were just taking the piss by making it a giant buttplug.

From the twitter comments:
_It's to plug troops from escaping in the rear_

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## The SC

The announcement of the first Russian-Ukrainian meeting, mediated by the UAE


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595727809489424385
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...-to-discuss-prisoner-swap-ammonia-sources-say


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595796232638791682


----------



## Soldier35

France handed over to Ukraine two batteries of the Crotale air defense system, it is worth noting that it is not known which versions of the air defense system were transferred. The French air defense system "Crotal" was developed in the late sixties by order of South Africa, after which the French army became interested in it. In the late eighties and in 2010 the complex was modernized, it was called "Crotale NG". SAM "Krotal" were actively exported and installed on different chassis. The French Ministry of Defense planned to abandon the Crotale NG complexes, the decommissioning of the last air defense systems was scheduled for 2025. The United States also tested the complex, but in the end did not accept it into service. The air defense system has a target tracking radar antenna and an optical-electronic station. A foldable survey radar antenna is installed on top. One complex can simultaneously fire at one target with a capacity of up to 4 launches per minute. The firing range of the latest versions of air defense systems is 500-10000 meters, the height of target destruction is up to 6000 meters.






Russian military personnel are actively using guns in Ukraine against STUPOR drones. In the video, using this complex, a commercial drone of the Ukrainian army DJI Mavic 3 was planted. At the moment, 3 drones of the DJI Mavic 3 type were planted using the PARS "STUPOR" anti-drone complex.






Strike installations UR-83P and UR-77 in Ukraine. The UR-83P is an analogue of the UR-77 demining machine, but it is delivered to the place of use by truck and assembled on site. Installation assembly time 1.5 hours. After the installations and incendiary shells hit, at the end of the video, the Russian unit began to attack the village of Berestovoye.






Russian servicemen, under the cover of a tank, evacuated the wounded directly from the front line. The crew of the tank with the callsign "Vesitologist" approached the positions of the Ukrainian army almost point-blank, the distance was about 100 meters. The fire of the tankers was corrected from the drone. Also, at the risk, the coordination of the work of the crew was carried out by one soldier directly from the armor of the tank.






One of the Ukrainian soldiers, possibly a mercenary from Georgia, filmed an American armored car International MaxxPro of the Ukrainian army from the inside. MaxxPro armored personnel carrier manufactured by Navistar International, adopted by the United States in 2007. At that time, American troops in Iraq were urgently re-equipping with these vehicles, since the Humvee armored vehicles had poor mine protection. The MaxxPro armored vehicle can withstand an explosion of a mine in TNT equivalent up to 7 kg. In the US, you can buy a new MaxxPro for $550,000.

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## The SC

Dmitry Medvedev inspects the factories of the high-precision guided weapons..






Scenes of a close Russian-Ukrainian fight with individual weapons and later crushing the Ukrainian unit with bombs from Su-25 planes..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595797531157487616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595797531157487616
The consequence.. Ukraine lost its ability to move or deploy its forces using the railway..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595873454796206080

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## A.P. Richelieu

One_Nation said:


> Trying to be more pro American than Americans themselves? Even Americans are ashamed of fake wars yet there are diehard dummies brainwashed by CNN who keep repeating their lies.


You mean Pakistan Lies, since the Pakistani government claimed that they armed and funded the Taliban


One_Nation said:


> You are trying to manipulate your own graph. Who brought down the Iraqi GDP in the first place? Those were the most murderous sanctions anywhere in the world. If the sanctions are lifted then GDP will grow. Nothing to brag about there.
> Why don't you apply the same GDP growth model to your own country to bring more progress?



That is not an argument supporting that Iraq is destroyed.



One_Nation said:


> *USA destroyed "illegal" baath regime. *Who helped them into power in the first place?


The Baath party grabbed power in 1968 when the Arabs were firmly under Soviet influence.



One_Nation said:


> US and British Support for Hussein Regime
> 
> 
> Global Policy Forum is a policy watchdog that follows the work of the United Nations. We promote accountability and citizen participation in decisions on peace and security, social justice and international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> archive.globalpolicy.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know everything about taliban because you "followed the takeover of taliban". Time to change your channel.






One_Nation said:


> Why would taliban need weapons and money from Pakistan?
> - Billion + dollars of USA aid to Afghan puppet regime went to Taliban.
> - Afghan puppet army sold their weapons to taliban.
> - Under USA occupation, poppy trade grew bringing more cash for taliban.
> - CIA organized weapons from all over the world for taliban worht billions of dollars.
> - Russia left a huge weapons dump in Afghanistan.
> - Afghan puppet government + US military paid protection money to taliban. Instead of fighting they found it much easier to pay to maintain peace.
> - taliban collected taxes from all over Afghanistan under USA occupation.


I guess you just claimed that Salah-al-Dinh was a liar and a criminal.



One_Nation said:


> + Saudi money:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudis Bankroll Taliban, Even as King Officially Supports Afghan Government (Published 2016)
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia has voiced support for American efforts to nourish Afghanistan’s democracy, but it has also lavishly funded Sunni extremism under various guises.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this situation they could supply weapons and money to Pakistan and still be rich and armed.


I guess you failed to show that the Us destroyed Iraq.

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## aviator_fan

Shawnee said:


> Information about a new fab production unit is released in Iran. Images are faded out for security.
> 
> These units can produce chips for Shahed domestically when needed.
> See Shahed 129 FLIR in the movie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595646782213586946
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595647979335065601
> See the wafer here
> 
> @BHAN85
> @1ndy
> 
> 
> A hundred more fab companies available on the list that I sent before.


I hope this fab stuff is real and not a farse to kill teenage girls and if its real than I further hope Israelis are shivering in their uniforms, vs. Gazans in their homes who are on receiving end of retribution everytime substandard weapons are lobbed by Hamas. Give them some of this if its real vs. just the Russians.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595805096776175617

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're just making stories. Russians are delivering blow after blow on your beloved Ukies. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595735363414278146
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595507880043679758
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595705000839499777
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have it in the list that I posted. Where did you get that from?


Dear Poster, you are going to have to do more than post twitter links with finger emojis to convince that Russia is on the winning side 'blow after blow'. I trust this no more than twitter feeds that claim UAF is winning tweet after tweet. What I do judge this on is how the situation on ground is changing and what actions each side is acting to compensate.....



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Because Russia only deployed 150,000 men while Ukrainian field over 700,000 men. The Ukies are sending human waves in order to overcome the small Russian defenders. Besides, this is a war that the whole of NATO is fighting. In response, Russia triggered partial mobilization, and those are gonna be ready in the Winter, When those 300,000 men join the battle, Ukies will hopefully be done. Let us not forget Ukraine is thrown into darkness. You want to be NATO's cannon fodder, you stay in the darkness is the Russian motto.


Your source is another Russian twitter feed that shows this mismatch or your imagination.

Whole NATO is fighting with less than 5-10% of its armaments, but UAF is fighting with one hand tied around its back: it cannot fight into Russia. That is a limitation imposed on them. So you will have to do better to show Russians as true masters given they know their enemy will never strike on Russian land. Situation would be different if Ukraine was armed with the same weapons to target Russian civilians.

So Russians attacking civilian targets while Ukraine can only attack military is a mismatch and Russians still can't prevail.

As for darkness: you, i, everybody on this forum is in a climate controlled room and don't need to worry about the Ukrainians. They were expecting this and are not surprised and will live through it.

The Taliban fought in sandals with no ballistic clothing

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Those SU-25s!! They keep bombing the invading NATO's cannon fodder in the Donbas region.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595884458258960384


----------



## One_Nation

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You mean Pakistan Lies, since the Pakistani government claimed that they armed and funded the Taliban
> 
> 
> That is not an argument supporting that Iraq is destroyed.
> 
> 
> The Baath party grabbed power in 1968 when the Arabs were firmly under Soviet influence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you just claimed that Salah-al-Dinh was a liar and a criminal.
> 
> 
> I guess you failed to show that the Us destroyed Iraq.


Its like arguing with a toddler.

Where did Pakistani government claim it and what has that got to do with your lie about what USA did to Iraq?

And who the hell is Salah-al-Dinh? 😂 You sound like a malfunctioning bot.

You cabal worshipping Europeans think you can shit on the world and stay safe from it. Its the same "GDP growth" formula you applied to Libya and Syria that gave you refugees and violence. I hope you get millions more so you keep enjoying the taste of your medicine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

aviator_fan said:


> Dear Poster, you are going to have to do more than post twitter links with finger emojis to convince that Russia is on the winning side 'blow after blow'. I trust this no more than twitter feeds that claim UAF is winning tweet after tweet. What I do judge this on is how the situation on ground is changing and what actions each side is acting to compensate.....
> 
> 
> Your source is another Russian twitter feed that shows this mismatch or your imagination.
> 
> Whole NATO is fighting with less than 5-10% of its armaments, but UAF is fighting with one hand tied around its back: it cannot fight into Russia. That is a limitation imposed on them. So you will have to do better to show Russians as true masters given they know their enemy will never strike on Russian land. Situation would be different if Ukraine was armed with the same weapons to target Russian civilians.
> 
> So Russians attacking civilian targets while Ukraine can only attack military is a mismatch and Russians still can't prevail.
> 
> As for darkness: you, i, everybody on this forum is in a climate controlled room and don't need to worry about the Ukrainians. They were expecting this and are not surprised and will live through it.
> 
> The Taliban fought in sandals with no ballistic clothing





You can listen to this video and hear from the experts in this area. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595615132326895618

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595478164834115585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595880293365436416

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595682164791988226

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595884532473163777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595887318652649473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595823076285054976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595814722238021636

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595743852056420352

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595927295772225538

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595756128335499266

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## AlKardai

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595927295772225538
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595756128335499266


wth is he trying to do lol


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

[SSG]Q266 said:


> wth is he trying to do lol



Thinking before unliving himself. Not that I care but sure as hell funny though seeing Russian taking the smart option ROFLMAO. 







More funny stuffs from funny man Solovyov 🤭


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595937258380693504

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Those SU-25s!! They keep bombing the invading NATO's cannon fodder in the Donbas region.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595884458258960384


This propaganda is pathetic. So far Russia has shown itself to be weak and incompetent.

That fact that you live in the US and refuse to go to your precious Russian paradise shows us all how even you yourself don't believe your own propaganda.

If you're so sure of Russian victory, why not go to Russia and fight yourself?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595924661342294019

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## Viet

Germany economy growing 0.8 percent in Q1, 0.1 percent in Q2, 0.4 percent in Q3. Russia economy meanwhile shrinking into recession.

No matter what happening Putin feels great. He laughing on a fake Scholz’s speech.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596088972605890566


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596095788161314816

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595927295772225538
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595756128335499266







Spoiler: Graphic - Ukrainian bodies littered in the trenches as a result of Russian artillery strikes





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596088186547093510



They are just dying for West's fiat financial system. Sad to see those men die for a cause that doesn't benefit and has nothing to do with them. 👆



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596099603798978560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596095788161314816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596095394945056768

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596093934479949824


The whole Europe is in energy and financial crisis. That is because they thought they could easily sanction Russia without taking into account the consequences of their actions. Nevertheless, it is good to see the Brits hurting. That country is the center of all evil. Let us hope and pray that they continue to suffer.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Spoiler: Graphic - Ukrainian bodies littered in the trenches as a result of Russian artillery strikes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596088186547093510
> 
> 
> 
> They are just dying for West's fiat financial system. Sad to see those men die for a cause that doesn't benefit and has nothing to do with them. 👆
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596099603798978560
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596095788161314816
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596095394945056768



Ukrainians are dying for their freedom and their nation,Russians are dying so Putin can stay in power and for his BS imperialistic dreams,that's the difference. "Russky mir" only brings death and destruction and poverty, Ukrainians like pretty much any other ex USSR country would rather die than live under the "Russian world"


BTW,why didn't you leave the shithole of your country to the beautiful Russia instead of the US you are spitting so much on,that's the real question here. I wouldn't live in a country I don't like personally. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596063299002826757

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## Vergennes

Russians are such a bunch of losers,losing against Ukraine now they claim they are fighting against NATO,while they are fighting against Ukrainians armed with our surplus. I can guarantee you Russians would have been pulverized already had Nato joined the game. Close to 100K russian casualties,0 NATO casualties. Make your own thought.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596119503535996928


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Ukrainians are dying for their freedom and their nation,Russians are dying so Putin can stay in power and for his BS imperialistic dreams,that's the difference. "Russky mir" only brings death and destruction and poverty, Ukrainians like pretty much any other ex USSR country would rather die than live under the "Russian world"



You listen to this American expert Colonel Douglas McGregor and let me know if the Ukrainians are fighting for a just cause.









Vergennes said:


> BTW,why didn't you leave the shithole of your country to the beautiful Russia instead of the US you are spitting so much on,that's the real question here. I wouldn't live in a country I don't like personally.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596063299002826757




Why don't you leave homo-filled, shithole France that you live, move to Zelensky's bedroom, and take a bullet for him? 😜 The coward focker lives around areas on both sides of Ukraine - Poland border.

I am just hoping Colonel Douglas McGregor is right that those 540,000 Russian forces around Ukrainian border will launch a major offensive and finish off this cannon-fodder regime led by a gay and comedian named Zelensjy.

Bish, I live in my country. Not sure what you're talking about.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596093275567431681

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russians are such a bunch of losers,losing against Ukraine now they claim they are fighting against NATO,while they are fighting against Ukrainians armed with our surplus. I can guarantee you Russians would have been pulverized already had Nato joined the game. Close to 100K russian casualties,0 NATO casualties. Make your own thought.




100,000 Russian casualties? This cat believes in his (or her) own nonsense. They didn't even lose 40,000 (dead and wounded). But the cannon fodder Ukrainians lost over 100,000 men and their wounded is at least twice or 3 thrice of that. Besides, while Russia is fighting on the ground in Donbas and Southern Ukraine, the whole EU (UK included) is suffocating through financial and energy crises. So it is whole EU that is suffocating. 

The whole godless West is a project run by a few hook-nosed Zionists who drive them like a fickle. They put them from one conflict to the next in order to secure their financial dominance, and their sheeple like this mindless cat start hating on countries that have done them no harm.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You listen to this American expert Colonel Douglas McGregor and let me know if the Ukrainians are fighting for a just cause.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you leave homo-filled, shithole France that you live, move to Zelensky's bedroom, and take a bullet for him? 😜 The coward focker lives around areas on both sides of Ukraine - Poland border.
> 
> I am just hoping Colonel Douglas McGregor is right that those 540,000 Russian forces around Ukrainian border will launch a major offensive and finish off this cannon-fodder regime led by a gay and comedian named Zelensjy.
> 
> Bish, I live in my country. Not sure what you're talking about.



Probably the same kind of dude that thought Russia would steamroll Ukraine in a matter of days.

Not even the Russians believe in this fantasy but somehow a somali dude living in the US (but is ashamed of admitting it) but trashing the western world every days does. Keep dreaming as some would say. 







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596139289976659969

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Probably the same kind of dude that thought Russia would steamroll Ukraine in a matter of days.



He never stated the Russians would streamroll in Ukraine. He consistently stated that the Russians came in to defend the Russian-speaking communities in the Donbas region and in Southern Ukraine.



Vergennes said:


> Not even the Russians believe in this fantasy but somehow a somali dude living in the US (but is ashamed of admitting it) but trashing the western world every days does. Keep dreaming as some would say.




Bish, I don't live in the West; I live in my country. I think you work in some centers that watch the IP addresses of the people who comment in PDF that don't have the same view as yours. I use VPN, dumbo. So you see that IP address and say aha, they guy lives in the West. You're so fragile that you resorted to spying on people's IP addresses. 

Are you also now admitting you aren't a French but an American? Why do you have French flag and claim to be living in France if you're an American? What are you trying to hide? 




Vergennes said:


> View attachment 900329
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596139289976659969




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594797418851319808

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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> 100,000 Russian casualties? This cat believes in his (or her) own nonsense. They didn't even lose 40,000 (dead and wounded). But the cannon fodder Ukrainians lost over 100,000 men and their wounded is at least twice or 3 thrice of that. Besides, while Russia is fighting on the ground in Donbas and Southern Ukraine, the whole EU (UK included) is suffocating through financial and energy crises. So it is whole EU that is suffocating.
> 
> The whole godless West is a project run by a few hook-nosed Zionists who drive them like a fickle. They put them from one conflict to the next in order to secure their financial dominance, and their sheeple like this mindless cat start hating on countries that have done them no harm.











Over 90K 'Irrecoverable Losses' Suffered by Russian Soldiers in Ukraine: iStories - The Moscow Times


Over 90,000 Russian soldiers have died, cannot be accounted for, or have suffered such serious injuries that they are unable to return to service, independent Russian media project iStories reported on Wednesday, citing sources close to the Kremlin.




www.themoscowtimes.com





Another source which provides much photographic evidence of deaths in Ukraine on its page, is giving Russian 85720 KIA count just now.

This war has turned out to be most costly for Russia since World War 2. This cannot be denied.

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## Viet

Ups

Christine Lambrecht facing embarrassing moment

Poland wants Germany to deliver Patriot missile defense systems to Ukraine instead of Poland.













Ukraine aktuell: Streit über deutsche Patriot-Raketen


Verteidigungsministerin Lambrecht hat den Vorschlag Polens zu deutschen Abwehrraketen zurückgewiesen. Das russische Bombardement auf kritische Infrastruktur in der Ukraine war Thema im UN-Sicherheitsrat. Ein Überblick.




amp.dw.com


----------



## nangyale

LeGenD said:


> Over 90K 'Irrecoverable Losses' Suffered by Russian Soldiers in Ukraine: iStories - The Moscow Times
> 
> 
> Over 90,000 Russian soldiers have died, cannot be accounted for, or have suffered such serious injuries that they are unable to return to service, independent Russian media project iStories reported on Wednesday, citing sources close to the Kremlin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.themoscowtimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another source which provides much photographic evidence of deaths in Ukraine on its page, is giving Russian 85720 KIA count just now.
> 
> This war has turned out to be most costly for Russia since World War 2. This cannot be denied.


The Moscow Times isn't really a credible source.
It's Amsterdam based and it's Moscow offices were closed due to anti-Russian propaganda (if I remember correctly).

The name is there to deceive people into believing its a pro-Russian or Russian based source. In reality it is neither.

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## Viet

nangyale said:


> The Moscow Times isn't really a credible source.
> It's Amsterdam based and it's Moscow offices were closed due to anti-Russian propaganda (if I remember correctly).
> 
> The name is there to deceive people into believing its a pro-Russian or Russian based source. In reality it is neither.


Russian mobis die like flies. They have no chance against 1.2 million battle hardened Ukraine army. The main Russia forces along with Wagner rapists, Chechen hooligans, separatists, and looters are decimated. Western reports say Putin preparing the second wave of mobilization in spring.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596159413793980417


----------



## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You listen to this American expert Colonel Douglas McGregor and let me know if the Ukrainians are fighting for a just cause.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you leave homo-filled, shithole France that you live, move to Zelensky's bedroom, and take a bullet for him? 😜 The coward focker lives around areas on both sides of Ukraine - Poland border.
> 
> I am just hoping Colonel Douglas McGregor is right that those 540,000 Russian forces around Ukrainian border will launch a major offensive and finish off this cannon-fodder regime led by a gay and comedian named Zelensjy.
> 
> Bish, I live in my country. Not sure what you're talking about.


He's not an expert. He's a well known Putin lover.

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## LeGenD

nangyale said:


> The Moscow Times isn't really a credible source.
> It's Amsterdam based and it's Moscow offices were closed due to anti-Russian propaganda (if I remember correctly).
> 
> The name is there to deceive people into believing its a pro-Russian or Russian based source. In reality it is neither.



The Moscow Times main office was in Russia until 2022. This office was relocated to Netherlands due to disagreement over restrictive media laws passed in Russia after the invasion of Ukraine. WE cannot expect media sources present inside Russia to provide non-restrictive Russian viewpoints. The Moscow Times is best bet due to this factor.

The Moscow Times has not come up with Russian KIA figure by itself but quoted another source that is privy to Russian military losses in Ukraine for the needful.

I have checked Russian mainstream news sources as well - I could not find much there. Therefore.

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## Vergennes

Russia is such a joke of a country.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596066963608178688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596157232017657856

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596170068412739584
Patriot batteries may be headed to Ukraine

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## PakFactor

That Guy said:


> This propaganda is pathetic. So far Russia has shown itself to be weak and incompetent.
> 
> That fact that you live in the US and refuse to go to your precious Russian paradise shows us all how even you yourself don't believe your own propaganda.
> 
> If you're so sure of Russian victory, why not go to Russia and fight yourself?



This is probably the worst executed war I've seen in a country with a rich military history dating back centuries.

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## Vergennes

PakFactor said:


> This is probably the worst executed war I've seen in a country with a rich military history dating back centuries.



That's what decades of incompetence, corruption and nepotism brings you.

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## A.P. Richelieu

One_Nation said:


> Its like arguing with a toddler.
> 
> Where did Pakistani government claim it and what has that got to do with your lie about what USA did to Iraq?







There are many, many comments like this that prove that the Taliban movement was created by ISI.


One_Nation said:


> And who the hell is Salah-al-Dinh? 😂 You sound like a malfunctioning bot.



Only the biggest Muslim hero of all time. And you basically called him a liar…



One_Nation said:


> You cabal worshipping Europeans think you can shit on the world and stay safe from it. Its the same "GDP growth" formula you applied to Libya and Syria that gave you refugees and violence. I hope you get millions more so you keep enjoying the taste of your medicine.


Obviously you are totally clueless about history, both now and then.
No need to waste more time on You.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> That's what decades of incompetence, corruption and nepotism brings you.



And if you asked 10 Russian soldiers why their in Ukraine you’d get a different answer from each of them.

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## nangyale

LeGenD said:


> The Moscow Times main office was in Russia until 2022. This office was relocated to Netherlands due to disagreement over restrictive media laws passed in Russia after the invasion of Ukraine. WE cannot expect media sources present inside Russia to provide non-restrictive Russian viewpoints. The Moscow Times is best bet due to this factor.
> 
> The Moscow Times has not come up with Russian KIA figure by itself but quoted another source that is privy to Russian military losses in Ukraine for the needful


By the same token we can not believe Western sources for Russian casualty figures either. And Moscow Times definitely comes under the category of pro-Ukraine sources.
I will actually like to add the name is there just to deceive.

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## Valar.

Yandex, Russia's "Google", wants to flee the country


Yandex is trying to dodge Western sanctions imposed after the Ukraine invasion, media reports say.




fortune.com

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## A.P. Richelieu

Vergennes said:


> BTW,why didn't you leave the shithole of your country to the beautiful Russia instead of the US you are spitting so much on,that's the real question here. I wouldn't live in a country I don't like personally.


There is no proof that any member of PDF actually originates or lives in the country they claim they live in.
It would be good if social media could actually detect the real location of each poster. With Russia spending millions of trolls, there are bound to be some false flaggers on PDF, which are actually Russians. They are also bound to be the most vocal Russia supporters on this thread,
There are some obvious candidates…

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## Viet

That will deal a blow to Putin if oil price cap coming as planned. $60 per barrel is deep.










Yellen says Russian oil price cap in $60 range would allow Moscow some profit


U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said on Wednesday that a price cap on Russian oil exports in the $60-a-barrel range would likely be sufficient to reduce Moscow's energy revenues while allowing profitable production.




www.reuters.com


----------



## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596170068412739584
> Patriot batteries may be headed to Ukraine


every buyer of patriots loses wars - Saudi Arabia, Israel, now Ukraine, its just a bad omen, the ar will be determined by the ground force strength - if Ukraine cant continue to supply good competent ground forces to hold all this area and fend off Russia, then Ukraine loses the war for sure.

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## Beny Karachun

925boy said:


> every buyer of patriots loses wars - Saudi Arabia, Israel, now Ukraine, its just a bad omen, the ar will be determined by the ground force strength - if Ukraine cant continue to supply good competent ground forces to hold all this area and fend off Russia, then Ukraine loses the war for sure.


Lol, what war Israel lost? We won every single war.

Cope hard.

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## That Guy

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol, what war Israel lost? We won every single war.
> 
> Cope hard.


The last war in Lebanon, Israel failed to achieve any of their main goals, and even ended up losing their allies within the Lebanese Christian militias.

I would consider that a loss.

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## Beny Karachun

That Guy said:


> The last war in Lebanon, Israel failed to achieve any of their main goals, and even ended up losing their allies within the Lebanese Christian militias.
> 
> I would consider that a loss.


Nope. It was a stalemate. Nasrallah himself said he wouldn't have attacked Israel had he known the reaction.

Israel is the reason Lebanon is unstable and in economic and political ruins. 

SLA was lost long before 2006, and the reason is a division between the Christians that forgot about the real threat, the Shias.

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596093934479949824
> 
> 
> The whole Europe is in energy and financial crisis. That is because they thought they could easily sanction Russia without taking into account the consequences of their actions. Nevertheless, it is good to see the Brits hurting. That country is the center of all evil. Let us hope and pray that they continue to suffer.


15% is not a crisis. I don't think you have visited Europe in the last 60 days. Airports are full, trains between countries full. You can see these macro numbers and feel good that in a hypotehtical world there may be some suffering, but so far there isn't. Unfortunately the suffering is Ukraine and Russia's only.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You listen to this American expert Colonel Douglas McGregor and let me know if the Ukrainians are fighting for a just cause.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you leave homo-filled, shithole France that you live, move to Zelensky's bedroom, and take a bullet for him? 😜 The coward focker lives around areas on both sides of Ukraine - Poland border.
> 
> I am just hoping Colonel Douglas McGregor is right that those 540,000 Russian forces around Ukrainian border will launch a major offensive and finish off this cannon-fodder regime led by a gay and comedian named Zelensjy.
> 
> Bish, I live in my country. Not sure what you're talking about.


You are quoting a guy that 3 days into the war that said '*"If they don't surrender in the next 24 hours, I suspect Russia will ultimately annihilate them."*

That is like somebody touting crypto and FTX back in March. You expect one retired colonel.

And if you are going to find a random former military officer at least bother to do a bit more research than just cutting and pasting a link. He was in favor of the Iraq war and felt US should have caused more destruction. And given Hasan is your name, he is also strongly anti-muslim and shot down his own ambassador nomination to Germany. This was in the time of Trump when a monkey could get an ambassadorship and he was shot down.

So his wishful thinking is a dream....But at least the system in the west allows even a loser like this to speak so you can quote him here. Where is the equivalent guy in Russia that opposes the Governments action: nowhere, and in prison.

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## jhungary

That Guy said:


> He's not an expert. He's a well known Putin lover.


That "Colonel" didn't even know 13M10 (Skill Level 1 HIMARS/M270 Operator) training is only 5 Weeks and said it was 6 months before you can drive the truck.., or he knows he just plainly lies. That said a lot of the man's statement.

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Over 90K 'Irrecoverable Losses' Suffered by Russian Soldiers in Ukraine: iStories - The Moscow Times
> 
> 
> Over 90,000 Russian soldiers have died, cannot be accounted for, or have suffered such serious injuries that they are unable to return to service, independent Russian media project iStories reported on Wednesday, citing sources close to the Kremlin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.themoscowtimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another source which provides much photographic evidence of deaths in Ukraine on its page, is giving Russian 85720 KIA count just now.
> 
> This war has turned out to be most costly for Russia since World War 2. This cannot be denied.


Many actually believe Russian Military lost way more than 100,000 men in this conflict. By going the good old estimation rate.

If Russia really do have 300,000 conscripts in Ukraine + their original 200,000 men in operation since Feb, and the PMC group, then there are at least 500,000+ men in Ukraine right now. The fact is we know Ukrainian force is about 700,000-800,000 strengths at this point, which mean the scale of Russian operation is about 200,000 strengths as they are only in one axis of attack instead of 4, and judging by the fact that they weren't making progress on that remaining front (They took maybe 3 village in the last 3 months) They are either at strength or understrength at this point, which mean there are around 300,000 Russian troop that was supposed to be in Ukraine were not accounted for(Otherwise they would have made significant progress in Bakhmut front)

Therefore a conventional estimation would see Russian non-replaceable casualty figure are somewhere about 200,000-300,000.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

LOL@these figures , the actual figures may have touched half a million or even more including civilians and combatants from both sides . Just like covid u will never know the real figure knowing it's way higher


----------



## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> 100,000 Russian casualties? This cat believes in his (or her) own nonsense. They didn't even lose 40,000 (dead and wounded). But the cannon fodder Ukrainians lost over 100,000 men and their wounded is at least twice or 3 thrice of that. Besides, while Russia is fighting on the ground in Donbas and Southern Ukraine, the whole EU (UK included) is suffocating through financial and energy crises. So it is whole EU that is suffocating.
> 
> The whole godless West is a project run by a few hook-nosed Zionists who drive them like a fickle. They put them from one conflict to the next in order to secure their financial dominance, and their sheeple like this mindless cat start hating on countries that have done them no harm.


You clearly have issues that go beyond the conflict. If you are going to vent on the zionist, than start venting also on UAE and the rest of the countries cosying up to Israel and kissing up to them. 

As for the stats: you are giving dillusional numbers much like Putin's own advisers gave him when they went in.

And it doesn't suit your credibility to think that Ukrainians are brainless morons that are easily manipulated by NATO to do NATO's calling. I haven't had to have my country fight an invading army but I would imagine if i did, I would react the same way as Ukraine. Countries (Vietnam, Afghanistan) all fight for what they believe in. Next you will be posting that Afghans Mujahideens were cannon fodder, brainless mindless and had no emotion or courage on their own.

Remember nobody counted on Ukraine to do anything other than be a defensive force: thats why they were equipped with defensive weapons so they could inflict as much damage if it became a gurellia war. They used those weapons in the first 60 days to put Russians back and then got offensive weapons.

So sadly, I can see your frustration that this turned out to be EXACTLY the opposite of what Russia wanted: bring NATO together, bring US closer to NATO, show its weapons are inferior, and NATO's doctrine and weapons to be superior, while losing its citizens that fled the country, and exposed that Russia has minimal friends and has no ability to take over a former satellite. Whoever thought that an attacking country's citizens will flea the country.

They became refugees as invaders for the first time in history. Thats what Putin has accomplished



925boy said:


> every buyer of patriots loses wars - Saudi Arabia, Israel, now Ukraine, its just a bad omen, the ar will be determined by the ground force strength - if Ukraine cant continue to supply good competent ground forces to hold all this area and fend off Russia, then Ukraine loses the war for sure.


Care to comment on how Israel loses every war? I am not a fan of Israel's policies and how it humiliates and worse how it gets exempted from punitive action because of how their religion was treated 80 years ago.

But that aside, Israel moves at its will over Syria and targets whatever it feels without a single S-300 being launched. It still holds Golan. And for every Hamas rocket lands on it, it retaliates by by destroying a city block in Gaza. Which of these is your definition of bad omen? Or the fact that Russia abandoned its most recent location recently in Kherson? And they don't even have Patriots yet. 

UAE has had good success outside of shooting the targets outside of Abu Dhabi

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## aviator_fan

Valar. said:


> Yandex, Russia's "Google", wants to flee the country
> 
> 
> Yandex is trying to dodge Western sanctions imposed after the Ukraine invasion, media reports say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fortune.com


Its unfortunate that a casualty is the smartness and intelligence of Russians wasted that companies world over took advantage of. Even the original research in late 60s/early 70s that inspired Lockheed Skunk works stealth work was based on wave physicis work done in Russia.... 

Putin should just keep Crimea, provide war raparations, and let his people prosper.

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## LeGenD

nangyale said:


> By the same token we can not believe Western sources for Russian casualty figures either. And Moscow Times definitely comes under the category of pro-Ukraine sources.
> I will actually like to add the name is there just to deceive.


This is the source:









Источники «Важных историй»: безвозвратные потери российской армии в Украине могут составлять более 90 тысяч человек


Об этом рассказали действующий офицер ФСБ и бывший офицер российских спецслужб




istories.media





You understand how risky and difficult it is for the Russians to investigate this matter? Would Putin want you to know?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

That Guy said:


> The last war in Lebanon, Israel failed to achieve any of their main goals, and even ended up losing their allies within the Lebanese Christian militias.
> 
> I would consider that a loss.


Hezbollah more or less quoted Pyrrhus after the war.


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## The SC




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596183830251331584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596108218601820160

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596267820999925763

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596246734564622338

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## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596267820999925763
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596246734564622338


Atleast recovering those places are going to be easy. A bulldozer, a plow and replanting of hedgerows and the ukrainians are all good.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596170068412739584
> Patriot batteries may be headed to Ukraine




Meaning the NASAMS (Norwegian Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System) and other air defense missile systems are not working. It is great to hear such a great news. Just a matter of time before Russians exploit its weaknesses as well.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596267820999925763
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596246734564622338





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596157487706771456

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596051903678390273

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

These days propaganda war is much more intensive than actual war. he he...

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## khansaheeb

NotSure said:


> Ok, Mr. "Analyst", it's all about your feelings.
> 
> Wow, i am impressed. Even the "deino"-something has Mod reacted. He got triggered really hard.
> 
> Wenn das das angelsächsiche Herrchen angegriffen wird, dann ist der BRD-Zwergdackel sofort zur Stelle. Um sich zwischen den Beinchen zu verstecken und laut zu kläffen.


Is this the right translation?
If the Anglo-Saxon master is attacked, then the FRG miniature dachshund is immediately on the spot. To hide between the legs and bark loudly.










Russian Soldiers 'Shoot Down' Chinese-Origin Ukrainian UAV Using Anti-Drone 'Jammer' Gun – Watch


A video of Russia’s frontline troops downing a commercially available Chinese drone used by Ukrainian forces using a ‘drone jammer’ gun is doing rounds on social media. While the gun cannot be clearly seen, it appears in flashes in the chaotic video and comes into focus at the end. US To Supply...




eurasiantimes.com





Russian Soldiers ‘Shoot Down’ Chinese-Origin Ukrainian UAV Using Anti-Drone ‘Jammer’ Gun – Watch​
EUROPE
ByParth Satam

November 24, 2022

*A video of Russia’s frontline troops downing a commercially available Chinese drone used by Ukrainian forces using a ‘drone jammer’ gun is doing rounds on social media. While the gun cannot be clearly seen, it appears in flashes in the chaotic video and comes into focus at the end.*


> *US To Supply More NASAMS, HIMARS To Ukraine; UK Arms With ‘Double In Range’ Brimstone Missile & Military Choppers*​





> *Turkey Delivers Its Own ‘HIMARS’ To Ukraine; Can Wreak Havoc In Tandem With Bayraktar TB-2 Drones*​



The video bares the effectiveness of electromagnetic/radio frequency/signal jamming and non-kinetic counter-drone systems and the proliferation of Chinese recreational drones from leading firm DJI.

Interestingly, even Russian forces use small Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) from the Chinese company for essential battlefield surveillance and reconnaissance purposes. The anti-drone gun, meanwhile, is the PARS ‘Stupor’ that began reaching Russian units in early July.
*Jubilant Russian Soldiers*​The four-rotor/quadcopter drone in the video is revealed to be a DJI product, based on the logo that comes into view as the group of soldiers are examining it closely after retrieving it.
The video showed a Russian soldier running several hundred meters into a field while being egged on loudly and given instructions by other unit members. There seem to be five to eight soldiers in the nearly two-minute clip, including the one holding the camera.
One of the soldiers, who is not in the frame, exclaims jubilant exclamations and instructions, indicating the soldier retrieving the drone managed to get hold of it.
This means the drone must have been brought down several minutes before the video began recording. The soldiers open the middle hollowed-out hold of the drone meant for carrying miniature and small cargo, giving rise to the possibility that it must have been used for dropping grenades.
Some comments on Telegram channels claimed these were Ukrainian soldiers bringing down a Russian drone. But the distinct design of the Stupor gun disproves that since Ukraine’s Lithuanian-made EDM4S-UA tactical drone jammer guns have a visibly different front end.

*The Gun & The Drone*​The DJI Mavic series has a low-quality telephoto lens, which allows for surveillance of targets from beyond earshot, and a more crisp wide-angle lens. The quadcopter is powerful enough to carry and drop single grenades fitted with impact fuses.
With the widespread use of its drones, DJI in April condemned its military application and stopped its sales in both Russia and Ukraine. This followed Ukraine’s Vice Prime Minister Mykhailo Fedorov’s open letter to DJI CEO Frank Wang in March.
However, it was still possible to procure the drone from neighboring countries through imports or direct purchases from retailers and electronic stores.
Russia, too, used DJI drones in large numbers, which former Russian Chief of General Staff, General Yuri Baluyevsky, praised in a book for “revolutionizing” warfare by improving artillery fire correction.
EurAsian Times had reported journalist Julian Röpcke tweeting an image of Chinese-origin DJI drones months after the drone manufacturer notified that the drones were not being sold to Russia anymore.


Meanwhile, the Russian ‘drone jammer’ gun is the Stupor, which severs the radio connection between the drone and its remote operator. It can also jam satellite navigation signals from the American GPS, Chinese BeiDou, European Galileo, and Russian GLONASS within a radius of two to five kilometers.
It can also block GSM, 3G, and LTE mobile network signals at a distance of up to a kilometer and generate interference at frequencies of 900 MHz, 2.4 GHz, and 5.2-5.8 GHz.




Russia’s Stupor anti-drone jammer gun, seen in the video, is being operated here by a pair of Russian soldiers.
However, the Stupor seen in the video appears to be an older model compared to the newer variants, with a sleeker design and finer finishing featured in the latest reports. In October, EurAsian Times also reported Russia introducing another hand-held anti-drone Harpoon-3 system. It, too, works on a similar principle of interfering and jamming the drone’s radio control channels.
*Newly Mobilized Recruits Learn How To Use DJI Drones*​Interestingly, Russia used DJI drones, which appeared in a video released by its Ministry of Defence (MoD) that featured the intensive training of its newly mobilized soldiers who are taught to use drones.
The video shows the recruits in a field shooting range and then being introduced to the DJI drone by their instructor.

Here too, DJI’s logo is visible on the drone’s controller/console while it is being operated by one of the recruits. The Russian MoD statement said that the soldiers are learning “new military specialties…in addition to small arms and firearms training with elements of tactical shooting.”
“The mobilized servicemen learn piloting techniques and the use of unmanned aerial vehicles in conditions as close to combat as possible. UAV operators practice using drones for artillery, tank, and assault units.
The crews’ task is to conduct surveillance, determine and transmit the coordinates of the enemy for fire and sabotage operations,” the MoD press release said.

*The author can be reached at satamp@gmail.com*
*Follow EurAsian Times on Google News *

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## One_Nation

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 900402
> 
> There are many, many comments like this that prove that the Taliban movement was created by ISI.
> 
> 
> Only the biggest Muslim hero of all time. And you basically called him a liar…
> 
> 
> Obviously you are totally clueless about history, both now and then.
> No need to waste more time on You.
> 
> View attachment 900403





> *Idiot said:
> There are many, many comments like this that prove that the Taliban movement was created by ISI.*


You said Pakistani government claimed they created taliban, I asked where and you post a comment from VOA as evidence?
You likely read it as a comment on these boards and took it as official claim. This shows how you gain your general knowledge.



> *Malfunctioning bot said:
> Only the biggest Muslim hero of all time. And you basically called him a liar…
> Obviously you are totally clueless about history, both now and then.
> No need to waste more time on You.*



So I pointed out your lie about what USA did to Iraq and this is all you have to say? Even a programmed bot troll will do better argument than you.

I understand that you have to run away since you have made up so many things that you can't back up. You were looking for an easy piss take and you couldn't have it.

Good riddance.

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## nangyale

LeGenD said:


> This is the source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Источники «Важных историй»: безвозвратные потери российской армии в Украине могут составлять более 90 тысяч человек
> 
> 
> Об этом рассказали действующий офицер ФСБ и бывший офицер российских спецслужб
> 
> 
> 
> 
> istories.media
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You understand how risky and difficult it is for the Russians to investigate this matter? Would Putin want you to know?


Did some digging in regards to this istories and found they are connected to OCCRP. Now to the uninitiated let's just say that occrp is a known Russia basher funded by the likes of NED and the British foreign office as can be gathered from their own list of backers here https://www.occrp.org/en/aboutus/who-supports-our-work

Need I say more?


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## Han Patriot

We should sell the Russians our silent hunter system. This jamming gun had been introduced by China 5 years ago.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596267820999925763
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596246734564622338





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596285419716759552

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Meaning the NASAMS (Norwegian Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System) and other air defense missile systems are not working. It is great to hear such a great news. Just a matter of time before Russians exploit its weaknesses as well.



So your conclusion is that because Ukraine is getting more Air defense systems , there air defense will be weaker ?

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## The SC

*Ukraine War Map | Russia Captures Novoselivs'ke | Winter Offensive Plan the same (Only More Troops)*​

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596114005080391684
I always wondered why do we have more American propagandists in PDF than the Europeans. It turns out this whole war was a business enterprise for the Americans. Makes sense now.

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## Viet

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s Personal Brigade Is Fighting One Of the Ukraine War’s Hardest Battles​David Axe
Forbes Staff


Nov 25, 2022,08:00am EST





A 1st Presidential Brigade trooper near Bakhmut.
UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY PHOTO

Officially, it’s the mission of the Ukrainian national guard’s 1st Presidential Brigade to defend the leader of Ukraine. In peacetime, that might mean manning guardposts in Kyiv and escorting the president on his travels.


But Ukraine isn’t at peace—and hasn’t been since 2014, when Russian troops first seized Ukraine’s strategic Crimean Peninsula then invaded eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region. So the 1st Presidential Brigade’s remit has, uh, somewhat expanded.

Now in addition to protecting Pres. Volodymyr Zelensky and his family, the elite brigade, thousands strong and nicknamed for 17th-century Ukrainian military hero Bohdan Khmelnytsky, guards strategic facilities in Kyiv such as power plants. And it also fights on the front.

And not just any sector of the front. Arguably the hardest sector: the fields and forests around Bakhmut, a town with a pre-war population of around 70,000, 30 miles north of Donetsk, the seat of the separatist “Donetsk People’s Republic” in Donbas.

As Ukrainian forces press their advantage, three months after launching twin counteroffensives in the east and south, Bakhmut is one of the few places where the Russians and their separatist and mercenary allies still are trying to attack.

The battle for Bakhmut, which pits Russian regulars, DPR separatists and mercenaries from The Wagner Group against the Ukrainian forces holding the town—including the 1st Presidential Brigade—might be the most absurd of these isolated Russian offensive operations. Which of course is little comfort to the 1st Presidential Brigade troopers hunkering in cold, muddy trenches around the town.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588856202808938496
Bakhmut itself doesn’t have a lot of military value. Certainly not any value that’s worth the lives of the few good troops the Kremlin has left after nine months of grinding warfare and repeated botched efforts to raise new forces.

According to the Institute for the Study of War in Washington, D.C., The Wagner Group views the Bakhmut battle as an opportunity to score public-relations points by proving the mercenaries can win ... while the rest of the Kremlin’s forces lose.

But the Ukrainian military is determined to deprive the Russians of any victory in Bakhmut, even a P.R. one. It’s not for no reason that the 1st Presidential Brigade has sent at least one of its battalions and the battalion’s BTR-4 wheeled armored vehicles to the town to fight alongside forces including the 93rd Mechanized Brigade—itself one of the Ukrainian army’s better brigades.

One video, recorded by a 1st Presidential Brigade trooper, speaks to the intensity of the fighting. He and some comrades man an M-2 heavy machine gun in a trench in a forest outside Bakhmut as Russian snipers take aim at them from three directions. “Get out of my forest!” one trooper shouts as he returns fire with his AK-style assault rifle.

Other videos that recently have circulated online depict Ukrainian drones dropping improvised bombs on Russian troops cowering in shallow dugouts outside Bakhmut—and killing seemingly scores of them.

In weeks of failed attacks on Bakhmut, the Russians have lost potentially hundreds of men killed and wounded—and the 1st Presidential Brigade and other Ukrainian units still control the town.

The Ukrainian president’s personal brigade might be a long way from Kyiv and the president. But it’s fighting, and so far winning, a battle that might prove pivotal to the wider war—and Zelensky’s future—as Russia spends its last good forces for no real gain.

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## Viet

When the Wagner hooligans attack at night, they run against Ukraine artillery like brainless zombies. They advance slowly, they don’t hide.

So Ukraine defenders at the front of Bakhmut when looking thru night vision gear.










Ukraine | Kämpfe um Bachmut: "Sie kommen wie Zombies auf uns zugelaufen"


Seit Monaten versucht die russische Gruppe Wagner, Bachmut in der Region Donezk zu stürmen.




www.t-online.de















Russia’s Pointless Attacks In Bakhmut Are Running Into A Wall Of Ukrainian Artillery


Just one corps of the Ukrainian army is doing most of the killing in Bakhmut. The artillery.




www.forbes.com










A 152-millimeter howitzer belonging to the 40th Artillery Brigade.

UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY PHOTO



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593415637384450048

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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596114005080391684
> I always wondered why do we have more American propagandists in PDF than the Europeans. It turns out this whole war was a business enterprise for the Americans. Makes sense now.

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## Viet

Putin crying crocodile tears when meeting a selected group of mothers whose sons died worthless in a foreign country. He says he shares the pain. In reality he cares little about their lives. The first wave of 320,000 mobis will be soon dead or wounded. He prepares the second wave of mobilization, ordering ammo factories to run double shifts.

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## LeGenD

nangyale said:


> Did some digging in regards to this istories and found they are connected to OCCRP. Now to the uninitiated let's just say that occrp is a known Russia basher funded by the likes of NED and the British foreign office as can be gathered from their own list of backers here https://www.occrp.org/en/aboutus/who-supports-our-work
> 
> Need I say more?



Fine.

But I am focused on "information." It matters. If it comes from the British Intelligence, so be it.

Is there any basis to assume that Russian leadership is absolutely humane, truthful, and transparent? They have absolute history of denials, coverups, and propaganda efforts in relation to this war. They said that they will not invade Ukraine, but they did. They said that there are no cases of Russian war-crimes in Ukraine, but there are. They manipulate contents to create narratives, you will see this in authentic Fact Checking sources that have existed long ago (not the fakes one that suddenly popped up). Need I say more?

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Meaning the NASAMS (Norwegian Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System) and other air defense missile systems are not working. It is great to hear such a great news. Just a matter of time before Russians exploit its weaknesses as well.



NASAMS have 100% success rate. More AD will just means Ukraine will be more protected. 








NASAMS air defense system have 100% success rate in Ukraine- Pentagon chief


U.S.-provided NASAMS air defense systems have had a 100% success rate in Ukraine intercepting Russian missiles, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said on Wednesday, as NATO said an errant Ukrainian air defense interceptor was likely the cause of an explosion in Poland on Tuesday.




www.reuters.com

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## NotSure

khansaheeb said:


> Is this the right translation?
> If the Anglo-Saxon master is attacked, then the FRG miniature dachshund is immediately on the spot. To hide between the legs and bark loudly.


It is! 

And it's the typical mentality todays germans and especially members of the Bundeswehr und Co. have. Nearly 80 years of occupation and brainwashing by UKUSA destroyed not only this country, it has destroyed the whole german culture and the people. Turned them into shizos , servile on the one hand and megalomaniac on the other hand.

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## Vergennes

Beny Karachun said:


> What a retard.



He's the kind of guy who said "US is sending more Himars to Ukraine because Russia destroyed all of them" LMAO.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596394727766921216

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## That Guy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Hezbollah more or less quoted Pyrrhus after the war.


Not really, they grew to be the most powerful faction after that in Lebanon, with no other faction coming close. Their stockpile of missiles grew massively to the point that it is now impossible for Israel to neutralize even a large portion of it. Their fighting experience against both Israel and the Syrian Civil War has made them into probably the most deadly force in the region, more powerful than even the Lebanese army.

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## jhungary

Well, now the Russian conscript dressed like Stalingrad back in 1942. 

Soon, they will dress like North Korean soldier on the DMZ.









Russia is interested in importing clothing and shoes from North Korea


ECONOMICHNA PRAVDA - FRIDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 2022 12:58 The Russian Embassy in North Korea has said that Russia is interested in importing clothing and shoes from the DPRK. Source: Ekonomichna Pravda, referring to the Russian media outlet Kommersant, quoting the embassy The embassy said in a...




news.yahoo.com

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## That Guy

Beny Karachun said:


> Nope. It was a stalemate. Nasrallah himself said he wouldn't have attacked Israel had he known the reaction.
> 
> Israel is the reason Lebanon is unstable and in economic and political ruins.
> 
> SLA was lost long before 2006, and the reason is a division between the Christians that forgot about the real threat, the Shias.


A stalemate between a standing army and a militia. That's an automatic victory for the militia.

Lebanon isn't that unstable. It has political crises, but it's no longer a war like situation, or is there a even a threat of civil war.

The SLA may have been lost, but Israel still maintained contact with a number Christian factions and militias, almost all of whom are now nonexistent.

It's economy will eventually recover, the blast that occurred is mainly the culprit behind the devastated economy, which was slowly and steadily recovering at the time.

Meanwhile, Hezbullah still remains a major threat to Israel, and now stronger than ever before, as Israel failed to achieve its goal of eradicating it multiple times.

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## A.P. Richelieu

That Guy said:


> Not really, they grew to be the most powerful faction after that in Lebanon, with no other faction coming close. Their stockpile of missiles grew massively to the point that it is now impossible for Israel to neutralize even a large portion of it. Their fighting experience against both Israel and the Syrian Civil War has made them into probably the most deadly force in the region, more powerful than even the Lebanese army.

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## That Guy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 900580


Okay, but that doesn't mean they lost, or that they aren't stronger than before.

You do realize that these two concepts are not the same thing, right?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596449988590141440

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## A.P. Richelieu

That Guy said:


> Okay, but that doesn't mean they lost, or that they aren't stronger than before.
> 
> You do realize that these two concepts are not the same thing, right?


You think that the Israeli goal was to destroy Hezbollah.
I’d say that the Israeli goal was to put a stop to Hezbollah attacks.
The Hezbollah goal was to make Israel leave a corner of territory, which Hezbollah considers to be Lebanese. Israel remains there and both Israel and Hezbollah avoids attacking each other.
You draw your own conclusions from that.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596485403279855617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596483166679621632

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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> Ukraine without electricity..
> 
> View attachment 900017


So - evidence of Russian war crimes against civilians and civilian infrastructure - right?

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## Beny Karachun

That Guy said:


> A stalemate between a standing army and a militia. That's an automatic victory for the militia.
> 
> Lebanon isn't that unstable. It has political crises, but it's no longer a war like situation, or is there a even a threat of civil war.
> 
> The SLA may have been lost, but Israel still maintained contact with a number Christian factions and militias, almost all of whom are now nonexistent.
> 
> It's economy will eventually recover, the blast that occurred is mainly the culprit behind the devastated economy, which was slowly and steadily recovering at the time.
> 
> Meanwhile, Hezbullah still remains a major threat to Israel, and now stronger than ever before, as Israel failed to achieve its goal of eradicating it multiple times.


Okay, can Hezbollah survive another "victory" like this? I don't think so. Another "victory" and Lebanon collapses.

Lebanon is unstable, people hold hostages in the banks because their money is locked every day. 

"Non existent" lol, like when the Shiites tried to enter a Christian neighbourhood and met with sniper fire that killed 7 of them? There are people that wait until the perfect moment to overthrow Hezbollah.

Wishful overly optimistic thinking, currently many western countries are struggling, you think Lebanon which is already in a pit will recover? Let alone recover before the conflict with Israel?

Hezbollah is stronger than ever before? All of Hezbollah's weapons have been countered. ATGMs? Trophy APS have been mounted on all Israeli Merkavas and Namer APCs.

Drones? Israeli electronic warfare is the best in the world.

Rockets and missiles? Iron Beam basically nullifies them at a true fraction of the cost but isn't mass produced yet, up until then, the Iron Dome, David's Sling, Barak 8 and Arrow will give the Israeli air force and artillery the crucial time to take out Hezbollah's missile threats, all of that is if Israel doesn't make a preemptive strike that sends Lebanon back into the stone age and flattens every Shia village and neighborhood all across Lebanon.

Israel's goal wasn't to eradicate Hezbollah, it was to stop Hezbollah's rockets. And that succeeded for the last 16 years.

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## That Guy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You think that the Israeli goal was to destroy Hezbollah.
> I’d say that the Israeli goal was to put a stop to Hezbollah attacks.
> The Hezbollah goal was to make Israel leave a corner of territory, which Hezbollah considers to be Lebanese. Israel remains there and both Israel and Hezbollah avoids attacking each other.
> You draw your own conclusions from that.


That's not what the winograd commission says. The Israelis consider the war to be a complete failure on their part. They failed to achieve any of their objectives or even degrade Hezbullah's capabilities.









English Summary of the Winograd Commission Report (Published 2008)







www.nytimes.com





On the other hand, Hezbullah repulsed an Israeli invasion force from the mainland. For them it was a victory.

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## Beny Karachun

That Guy said:


> now stronger than ever before


Hezbollah is actually weaker than ever before.

As I mentioned, Israel countered every weapon they have. Lebanon is politically dividend more than ever, they had thousands of casualties in Syria and even more injured, and don't count that as experience since all that experience is worthless, they would be facing an enemy with air superiority, massively upgraded surveillance capability and way bigger armed drone fleet, way more standoff weapons, counter artillery radars linked with HIMARS type MLRS (PULS family) and precision guided 155mm shells for <5 minutes kill chain, the tanks they will be facing wouldn't be T55s operated by goat herders but Merkava Mk4s and Namer/Namera with Trophy APS and new modern systems interlinked with a new BMS that's installed on every Israeli vehicle and platoon, suicide drones, signal jamming, the destruction of every power plant in Lebanon and more. 

Israel's army in 2006 is a shadow of Israel's military today. Israel prepared itself for 16 years, adjusted its tactics and technology. Meanwhile Hezbollah remains the same, with the addition of easily encountered drones.

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## That Guy

Beny Karachun said:


> Okay, can Hezbollah survive another "victory" like this? I don't think so. Another "victory" and Lebanon collapses.
> 
> Lebanon is unstable, people hold hostages in the banks because their money is locked every day.
> 
> "Non existent" lol, like when the Shiites tried to enter a Christian neighbourhood and met with sniper fire that killed 7 of them? There are people that wait until the perfect moment to overthrow Hezbollah.
> 
> Wishful overly optimistic thinking, currently many western countries are struggling, you think Lebanon which is already in a pit will recover? Let alone recover before the conflict with Israel?
> 
> Hezbollah is stronger than ever before? All of Hezbollah's weapons have been countered. ATGMs? Trophy APS have been mounted on all Israeli Merkavas and Namer APCs.
> 
> Drones? Israeli electronic warfare is the best in the world.
> 
> Rockets and missiles? Iron Beam basically nullifies them at a true fraction of the cost but isn't mass produced yet, up until then, the Iron Dome, David's Sling, Barak 8 and Arrow will give the Israeli air force and artillery the crucial time to take out Hezbollah's missile threats, all of that is if Israel doesn't make a preemptive strike that sends Lebanon back into the stone age and flattens every Shia village and neighborhood all across Lebanon.
> 
> Israel's goal wasn't to eradicate Hezbollah, it was to stop Hezbollah's rockets. And that succeeded for the last 16 years.


Hezbullah is not Lebanon, that is where you're making a mistake.

Hezbullah can absolutely survive, and they can absolutely survive a collapse of the Lebanese state and they're a religious organization first and foremost.

Also, I didn't say that Christian militias are nonexistent, I said Israeli allies among them are.

You also say that Hezbullah's weapons have been countered, but that is idiotic thinking. "Counters" are not foolproof, and technological superiority does not mean victory. EW is also not foolproof, ask the Russians.

Also, Iron beam has never been tested outside of actual controlled environments, we don't know know how effective it even is.

Winograd report pretty much spells out what Israel's aims were. The initial air campaign was to stop the rocket attack, which ended up being a complete failure, because they didn't stop shit. Then Israel sent in ground forces which expected an easy victory, but ended up facing heavy resistance.

You list off system, but the honest truth is that none of them are 100% fool proof.

You laugh, but you can't laugh away reality. In some ways, you're as bad as the Iranian propagandists on PDF.



Beny Karachun said:


> Hezbollah is actually weaker than ever before.
> 
> As I mentioned, Israel countered every weapon they have. Lebanon is politically dividend more than ever, they had thousands of casualties in Syria and even more injured, and don't count that as experience since all that experience is worthless, they would be facing an enemy with air superiority, massively upgraded surveillance capability and way bigger armed drone fleet, way more standoff weapons, counter artillery radars linked with HIMARS type MLRS (PULS family) and precision guided 155mm shells for <5 minutes kill chain, the tanks they will be facing wouldn't be T55s operated by goat herders but Merkava Mk4s and Namer/Namera with Trophy APS and new modern systems interlinked with a new BMS that's installed on every Israeli vehicle and platoon, suicide drones, signal jamming, the destruction of every power plant in Lebanon and more.
> 
> Israel's army in 2006 is a shadow of Israel's military today. Israel prepared itself for 16 years, adjusted its tactics and technology. Meanwhile Hezbollah remains the same, with the addition of easily encountered drones.


And Hezbullah of 2006 is a shadow of Hezbullah of today.

What are you talking about. You're listing off system as if you think those alone will win the war.

They faced an enemy with an air force in 2006, and the air force ended up doing little to no damage them them, and only ended up bombing civilian apartments.

Israel had an overwhelming advantage against Hezbullah I'm 2006, and still fucked up.

Why do people like you never understand militias and insurgents can suffer a million casualties, and be just fine?

The taliban in Afghanistan suffered between 30,000 to 100,000 casualties, and guess what? They won.

Dude, stop, you aren't gonna win this argument.

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## Beny Karachun

That Guy said:


> That's not what the winograd commission says. The Israelis consider the war to be a complete failure on their part. They failed to achieve any of their objectives or even degrade Hezbullah's capabilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Summary of the Winograd Commission Report (Published 2008)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, Hezbullah repulsed an Israeli invasion force from the mainland. For them it was a victory.


The difference between Israel and its enemies, is thag while Israel critiques every failure it has, Israel's enemies would claim victory regardless of the massive failures they commit and will overlook them. 

Objectively speaking, Israel killed 6 Hezbollah terrorists for every Israeli casualty, Kept Lebanese infastracture safe, and the whole operation was short lived and with relatively few casualties. This led to 16 years of silence and led Nasrallah to remain in his bunker for 16 years, and Lebanon's economy was left in the ruins until this day. Meanwhile Israel's economy grew up so much it is now wealthier than most Western European nations.


----------



## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> Well, now the Russian conscript dressed like Stalingrad back in 1942.
> 
> Soon, they will dress like North Korean soldier on the DMZ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is interested in importing clothing and shoes from North Korea
> 
> 
> ECONOMICHNA PRAVDA - FRIDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 2022 12:58 The Russian Embassy in North Korea has said that Russia is interested in importing clothing and shoes from the DPRK. Source: Ekonomichna Pravda, referring to the Russian media outlet Kommersant, quoting the embassy The embassy said in a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com



Winter is coming and the Russian Army is not ready for winter - it will be a tough winter for the Russian invaders and their numbers will thin out quite a lot due to the cold winter weather. This will make further counter offensives by Ukraine in 2023 even easier.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Beny Karachun said:


> Okay, can Hezbollah survive another "victory" like this? I don't think so. Another "victory" and Lebanon collapses.
> 
> Lebanon is unstable, people hold hostages in the banks because their money is locked every day.
> 
> "Non existent" lol, like when the Shiites tried to enter a Christian neighbourhood and met with sniper fire that killed 7 of them? There are people that wait until the perfect moment to overthrow Hezbollah.
> 
> Wishful overly optimistic thinking, currently many western countries are struggling, you think Lebanon which is already in a pit will recover? Let alone recover before the conflict with Israel?
> 
> Hezbollah is stronger than ever before? All of Hezbollah's weapons have been countered. ATGMs? Trophy APS have been mounted on all Israeli Merkavas and Namer APCs.
> 
> Drones? Israeli electronic warfare is the best in the world.
> 
> Rockets and missiles? Iron Beam basically nullifies them at a true fraction of the cost but isn't mass produced yet, up until then, the Iron Dome, David's Sling, Barak 8 and Arrow will give the Israeli air force and artillery the crucial time to take out Hezbollah's missile threats, all of that is if Israel doesn't make a preemptive strike that sends Lebanon back into the stone age and flattens every Shia village and neighborhood all across Lebanon.
> 
> Israel's goal wasn't to eradicate Hezbollah, it was to stop Hezbollah's rockets. And that succeeded for the last 16 years.



ZioCunt, Hezbollah resistance kicked your never washed arse in 2006. We all saw how your overwhelming firepower couldn't sustain the war and how your baby-killing troops were destroyed in the Bekaa Valley. Your tanks were sitting ducks for the Kornet anti-tank deployed by the Hezbollah resistance fighters. And your population couldn't have stayed in the shelters after 1 month of fighting. The result of the war was your temporary and illegal entity don't dare to attack Lebanon after that war.

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## A.P. Richelieu

That Guy said:


> That's not what the winograd commission says. The Israelis consider the war to be a complete failure on their part. They failed to achieve any of their objectives or even degrade Hezbullah's capabilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Summary of the Winograd Commission Report (Published 2008)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, Hezbullah repulsed an Israeli invasion force from the mainland. For them it was a victory.


That is not what the Winograd report says.
Certainly there were a lot of criticism, but also of the report.

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## That Guy

Beny Karachun said:


> The difference between Israel and its enemies, is thag while Israel critiques every failure it has, Israel's enemies would claim victory regardless of the massive failures they commit and will overlook them.
> 
> Objectively speaking, Israel killed 6 Hezbollah terrorists for every Israeli casualty, Kept Lebanese infastracture safe, and the whole operation was short lived and with relatively few casualties. This led to 16 years of silence and led Nasrallah to remain in his bunker for 16 years, and Lebanon's economy was left in the ruins until this day. Meanwhile Israel's economy grew up so much it is now wealthier than most Western European nations.


Objectively, it was pretty even between 1-2 hezbullah casualty for every 1 Israeli casualty. This is from independent reports.

Only Israel claims a 5-6 to 1 ratio.

Lebanese infrastructure was devastated by Israeli air strikes, this was a major point of criticism that Israel faced, what are you talking about?

Again, you are conflating Hezbullah with Lebanon. This is not a state vs state war, it is a state vs militia war. The Lebanese Army stayed mostly away from the fighting.

You're parroting propaganda that even most objective Israeli analysts don't believe.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is not what the Winograd report says.
> Certainly there were a lot of criticism, but also of the report.
> View attachment 900645


That is absolutely what the report says.

The criticism basically amounted to "Israel numbah Wan!" And showed zero evidence to back its criticism.

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## Beny Karachun

That Guy said:


> Hezbullah is not Lebanon, that is where you're making a mistake.
> 
> Hezbullah can absolutely survive, and they can absolutely survive a collapse of the Lebanese state and they're a religious organization first and foremost.
> 
> Also, I didn't say that Christian militias are nonexistent, I said Israeli allies among them are.
> 
> You also say that Hezbullah's weapons have been countered, but that is idiotic thinking. "Counters" are not foolproof, and technological superiority does not mean victory. EW is also not foolproof, ask the Russians.
> 
> Also, Iron beam has never been tested outside of actual controlled environments, we don't know know how effective it even is.
> 
> Winograd report pretty much spells out what Israel's aims were. The initial air campaign was to stop the rocket attack, which ended up being a complete failure, because they didn't stop shit. Then Israel sent in ground forces which expected an easy victory, but ended up facing heavy resistance.
> 
> You list off system, but the honest truth is that none of them are 100% fool proof.
> 
> You laugh, but you can't laugh away reality. In some ways, you're as bad as the Iranian propagandists on PDF.
> 
> 
> And Hezbullah of 2006 is a shadow of Hezbullah of today.
> 
> What are you talking about. You're listing off system as if you think those alone will win the war.
> 
> They faced an enemy with an air force in 2006, and the air force ended up doing little to no damage them them, and only ended up bombing civilian apartments.
> 
> Israel had an overwhelming advantage against Hezbullah I'm 2006, and still fucked up.
> 
> Why do people like you never understand militias and insurgents can suffer a million casualties, and be just fine?
> 
> Dude, stop, you aren't gonna win this argument.


Hezbollah will survive because it's an ideology, in order to kill it you need to kill every one of its supporters, but it will be left powerless, Just like Lebanon. 

Lebanon has no electricity - that means Lebanon has no pumps, no fuel, no water. I want Hezbollah to try and fight under those conditions.

Russians are a joke, we had a 70 years history of humiliating their equipment. EW works very well, except the frontline of Ukraine is so big neither side can utilize it effectively. This isn't the case in Lebanon.

Israel's slowed advance was largely due to ATGMs hitting Israel's armor, this problem was negated with the Trophy. So next war Israel's advance would be quicker, what's there to not understand? 

No weapon is tested in combat situation, before it's tested in combat situation. You'll see just how effective that system really is, just like the world was amazed by the Iron Dome. 

There's no need for anything to be 100 percent fool proof. The point of defense systems is to minimize casualties. For example, the Trophy system has a lot more use than just being able to defend tanks. It changes the whole tactical planning and usecase of tanks. A Merkava without Trophy wouldn't dare to rush into the enemy, whereas Merkavas equipped with Trophy would. APCs with no APS wouldn't drive in ATGM threatened roads. 

You are right, we in Israel don't see 2006 as a successful war. But that's because we expect a swift, decisive complete victory with minimal casualties. Anything less than that is a failure in our eyes. But if we are not looking from our eyes, the facts remain: Hezbollah took a massive blow, couldn't stop Israel's invasion to South Lebanon and was only saved by the fact Israel's leadership listened to the international community's peace demands, was overwhelmingly tactically disadvantaged in every encounter with an Israeli force, had many times the casualties of Israel, crashed the Lebanese economy ever since and led Israel to overhaul its entire military to successfully fight against Hezbollah.


Hezbollah is a guerilla force in 2006, it didn't have massive easily spotted armor formations. In 2006 optics and intelligence sharing were lacking. Today even tiny drones offer high resolution recording that allows drones and aircraft to effectively destroy enemies. Look at Turkey in Syria, they're making Hezbollah and others a joke with their TB2 drones. Why do you think that's possible? Because of high definition thermal optics and precise munitions. Same thing will happen next war.

Israel had an overwhelming advantage against conventional militaries, not against guerilla forces. Now Israel is trained and equipped to fight against guerilla forces, and you'll see it soon enough.


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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Winter is coming and the Russian Army is not ready for winter - it will be a tough winter for the Russian invaders and their numbers will thin out quite a lot due to the cold winter weather. This will make further counter offensives by Ukraine in 2023 even easier.


Yes, with most of the occupied Ukrainian territories did not have electricity and gas supply, even the separatist held donbas, Russian is going to face a tough winter

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## That Guy

Beny Karachun said:


> Hezbollah will survive because it's an ideology, in order to kill it you need to kill every one of its supporters, but it will be left powerless, Just like Lebanon.
> 
> Lebanon has no electricity - that means Lebanon has no pumps, no fuel, no water. I want Hezbollah to try and fight under those conditions.
> 
> Russians are a joke, we had a 70 years history of humiliating their equipment. EW works very well, except the frontline of Ukraine is so big neither side can utilize it effectively. This isn't the case in Lebanon.
> 
> Israel's slowed advance was largely due to ATGMs hitting Israel's armor, this problem was negated with the Trophy. So next war Israel's advance would be quicker, what's there to not understand?
> 
> No weapon is tested in combat situation, before it's tested in combat situation. You'll see just how effective that system really is, just like the world was amazed by the Iron Dome.
> 
> There's no need for anything to be 100 percent fool proof. The point of defense systems is to minimize casualties. For example, the Trophy system has a lot more use than just being able to defend tanks. It changes the whole tactical planning and usecase of tanks. A Merkava without Trophy wouldn't dare to rush into the enemy, whereas Merkavas equipped with Trophy would. APCs with no APS wouldn't drive in ATGM threatened roads.
> 
> You are right, we in Israel don't see 2006 as a successful war. But that's because we expect a swift, decisive complete victory with minimal casualties. Anything less than that is a failure in our eyes. But if we are not looking from our eyes, the facts remain: Hezbollah took a massive blow, couldn't stop Israel's invasion to South Lebanon and was only saved by the fact Israel's leadership listened to the international community's peace demands, was overwhelmingly tactically disadvantaged in every encounter with an Israeli force, had many times the casualties of Israel, crashed the Lebanese economy ever since and led Israel to overhaul its entire military to successfully fight against Hezbollah.
> 
> 
> Hezbollah is a guerilla force in 2006, it didn't have massive easily spotted armor formations. In 2006 optics and intelligence sharing were lacking. Today even tiny drones offer high resolution recording that allows drones and aircraft to effectively destroy enemies. Look at Turkey in Syria, they're making Hezbollah and others a joke with their TB2 drones. Why do you think that's possible? Because of high definition thermal optics and precise munitions. Same thing will happen next war.
> 
> Israel had an overwhelming advantage against conventional militaries, not against guerilla forces. Now Israel is trained and equipped to fight against guerilla forces, and you'll see it soon enough.


Oh my God, it's like arguing with a toddler.

Stop fucking repeating the same damn points over and over again thinking that they'll suddenly become valid if you repeat them enough.

Also, unlike you I don't hope for another war for the peace of the region and the people living there.

"You'll see it soon enough", why would you ever wish for war? Are you mad?

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## Beny Karachun

That Guy said:


> Objectively, it was pretty even between 1-2 hezbullah casualty for every 1 Israeli casualty. This is from independent reports.
> 
> Only Israel claims a 6 to 1 ratio.
> 
> Lebanese infrastructure was devastated by Israeli air strikes, this was a major point of criticism that Israel faced, what are you talking about?
> 
> Again, you are conflating Hezbullah with Lebanon. This is not a state vs state war, it is a state vs militia war. The Lebanese Army stayed mostly away from the fighting.
> 
> You're parroting propaganda that even most objective Israeli analysts don't believe


1-2 number is only by Hezbollah and "human rights organisations" that always include combatants as civilians. 

All Israel did was destroy some bridges and destroy residential buildings held by Hezbollah, power and water facilities weren't touched, this only shows Israel wasn't going all out. A mistake on its behalf that would not be repeated. You saw how the Beirut explosion paralyzed Lebanon, but this will be nothing compared to the coming destruction.

Lebanese army wasn't a relevant force since 2000. We are viewing Hezbollah as Lebanon, we had your view in 2006 that differentiates between the two, but it's no longer the case.



That Guy said:


> Oh my God, it's like arguing with a toddler.
> 
> Stop fucking repeating the same damn points over and over again thinking that they'll suddenly become valid if you repeat them enough.
> 
> Also, unlike you I don't hope for another war for the peace of the region and the people living there.
> 
> "You'll see it soon enough", why would you ever wish for war? Are you mad?


We don't hope for it either, we just know it will come, it's obvious, everyone in Israel knows it.



That Guy said:


> The criticism basically amounted to "Israel numbah Wan!" And showed zero evidence to back its criticism.


What do you mean?
Here are the points:
Lebanese border is more peaceful than in the last 40 years - true

Hezbollah was thrown out of Southern Lebanon - true, Israel stopped by the Litani River

Hezbollah had the fight thrown out of it: true, it went from attacking Israeli military patrols into being quiet for 16 years, even not responding to Israel bombing Hezbollah generals in Syria


----------



## That Guy

Beny Karachun said:


> 1-2 number is only by Hezbollah and "human rights organisations" that always include combatants as civilians.
> 
> All Israel did was destroy some bridges and destroy residential buildings held by Hezbollah, power and water facilities weren't touched, this only shows Israel wasn't going all out. A mistake on its behalf that would not be repeated. You saw how the Beirut explosion paralyzed Lebanon, but this will be nothing compared to the coming destruction.
> 
> Lebanese army wasn't a relevant force since 2000. We are viewing Hezbollah as Lebanon, we had your view in 2006 that differentiates between the two, but it's no longer the case.
> 
> 
> We don't hope for it either, we just know it will come, it's obvious, everyone in Israel knows it.
> 
> 
> What do you mean?
> Here are the points:
> Lebanese border is more peaceful than in the last 40 years - true
> 
> Hezbollah was thrown out of Southern Lebanon - true, Israel stopped by the Litani River
> 
> Hezbollah had the fight thrown out of it: true, it went from attacking Israeli military patrols into being quiet for 16 years, even not responding to Israel bombing Hezbollah generals in Syria


The fact that you're calling for and expecting a war where you're openly calling for Israel to commit war crimes is disturbing.

You aren't doing any favors for Israel by acting like a war monger.

We aren't looking at Hezbullah as Lebanon, YOU are.

You can't just arbitrarily change facts to suit your narratives.

Hezbullah still operates in the South of Lebanon, and occasional cross border crises do still occur. The border is still far from being peaceful.

Hezbullah is still getting ready to fight, which is why their numbers have grown, both man and weapons systems. They've been preparing for another war for a long time, and I hope that day never comes.

The Lebanese Army may not have been powerful during the time, but they still numbered tens of thousands of soldiers trained and equipped with advanced weapons and tactics.

I'm also, not talking about the rest of Israeli people, I'm talking about YOU ALONE. Stop wishing for war.

Nothing you said is based on facts.

All you did was post easily disproven propaganda.

With that, I will no longer engage in this discussion. Back to the Russia-Ukraine war. Let's stick to the main topic @A.P. Richelieu @Beny Karachun

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596510609633411077

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596507641660207104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596200860333260800

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## Beny Karachun

That Guy said:


> The fact that you're calling for and expecting a war where you're openly calling for Israel to commit war crimes is disturbing.


As I said, we're not calling for war, we're expecting it. Every Iranian, Lebanese, Israeli, Syrian or anyone else knows it's just a matter of time.

There are no warcrimes against a terrorist organization. We don't care about what some Swiss people living in peace in Geneva have to say.



That Guy said:


> We aren't looking at Hezbullah as Lebanon, YOU are.


That's literally what I'm saying.



That Guy said:


> You can't just arbitrarily change facts to suit your narratives.


Where?



That Guy said:


> Hezbullah still operates in the South of Lebanon, and occasional cross border crises do still occur. The border is still far from being peaceful.


This obviously referred to the duration of the war, Hezbollah was kicked out of South Lebanon during the 2006 invasion.
And the border is more peaceful than it ever was. 1979-2006 we had wars and battles. This is no longer the case. "Occasional" things are few and far apart, in a very small magnitude.



That Guy said:


> Hezbullah is still getting ready to fight, which is why their numbers have grown, both man and weapons systems. They've been preparing for another war for a long time, and I hope that day never comes.


Their ATGMs are practically useless, their rockets are about to be as well with the introduction of Iron Beam and the existence of the Iron Dome, same about their drones with the addition of EW to counter them. 


That Guy said:


> The Lebanese Army may not have been powerful during the time, but they still numbered tens of thousands of soldiers trained and equipped with advanced weapons and tactics.


What's your point?



That Guy said:


> I'm also, not talking about the rest of Israeli people, I'm talking about YOU ALONE. Stop wishing for war.


No one here wishes for war, we just know it will come, it always comes.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596519249668890627

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596488005447217154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596409430002003970

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596519249668890627




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596456346303725569
what a pathetic nation,you think you wouldn't be surprised anymore,you are wrong. That woman claimed her son ordered a strike on his position after being surrounded by "Ukrops",LMAO.

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596519249668890627


That’s low.
Russia TV is a comedian show. They make fake news on anti fake news show.
Julia, a russia blogger, complains Germany is too cold she has to wear massive winter clothing because there is no gas, no heating.
The temperature however outside when she made the video was 18 Celsius.
Well, on a recent police report, she is deported back to Russia.












__





Plumpe Kreml-Propaganda: Russische Hetzerin "friert" in München - bei 18 Grad Außentemperatur - n-tv.de


Die Sendung "AntiFake" im russischen Staatsfernsehen verspricht, angebliche Falschmeldungen der westlichen Medien zu entlarven. Doch stattdessen werden hier echte Fakes fabriziert. Dabei geben sich die Macher aber sehr wenig Mühe - einige davon sind lächerlich schlecht.



amp.n-tv.de

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## Deino

NotSure said:


> It is!
> 
> And it's the typical mentality todays germans and especially members of the Bundeswehr und Co. have. Nearly 80 years of occupation and brainwashing by UKUSA destroyed not only this country, it has destroyed the whole german culture and the people. Turned them into shizos , servile on the one hand and megalomaniac on the other hand.




Well, but then please explain if you hate us Germans and Germany so much, why according to your flags a Russian - who constantly bashes the West, its culture and way of living and cheers all Russian cruelties in Ukraine - hides like a coward in Germany?






So either you are just a stupid nationalistic brainwashed Russian teenager, who knows nothing, or an unemployed hopeless young Russian looser that fled to Germany or just a typical Russian "internet warrior", or plain and simple a troll!

*@waz, @LeGenD and other moderators ... could you please call to end this constant off topic Israel-Iran and Lebanon discussions here in this thread?!!*

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## Vergennes

This is what the Russians are planning to use for their "great supa dupa bltizkrieg" after the winter. If this is what Russian medias present us,expect even worse equipments among other mobiks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596509527293235213


----------



## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Vergennes said:


> This is what the Russians are planning to use for their "great supa dupa bltizkrieg" after the winter. If this is what Russian medias present us,expect even worse equipments among other mobiks.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596509527293235213


Ghosts of Soviet era...


----------



## Vergennes

Viet said:


> That’s low.
> Russia TV is a comedian show. They make fake news on anti fake news show.
> Julia, a russia blogger, complains Germany is too cold she has to wear massive winter clothing because there is no gas, no heating.
> The temperature however outside when she made the video was 18 Celsius.
> Well, on a recent police report, she is deported back to Russia.
> 
> 
> View attachment 900673
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plumpe Kreml-Propaganda: Russische Hetzerin "friert" in München - bei 18 Grad Außentemperatur - n-tv.de
> 
> 
> Die Sendung "AntiFake" im russischen Staatsfernsehen verspricht, angebliche Falschmeldungen der westlichen Medien zu entlarven. Doch stattdessen werden hier echte Fakes fabriziert. Dabei geben sich die Macher aber sehr wenig Mühe - einige davon sind lächerlich schlecht.
> 
> 
> 
> amp.n-tv.de



Funny how some Russian trolls and people who do not even live here are claiming we are freezing to death. How beautiful.

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## That Guy

Beny Karachun said:


> As I said, we're not calling for war, we're expecting it. Every Iranian, Lebanese, Israeli, Syrian or anyone else knows it's just a matter of time.
> 
> There are no warcrimes against a terrorist organization. We don't care about what some Swiss people living in peace in Geneva have to say.
> 
> 
> That's literally what I'm saying.
> 
> 
> Where?
> 
> 
> This obviously referred to the duration of the war, Hezbollah was kicked out of South Lebanon during the 2006 invasion.
> And the border is more peaceful than it ever was. 1979-2006 we had wars and battles. This is no longer the case. "Occasional" things are few and far apart, in a very small magnitude.
> 
> 
> Their ATGMs are practically useless, their rockets are about to be as well with the introduction of Iron Beam and the existence of the Iron Dome, same about their drones with the addition of EW to counter them.
> 
> What's your point?
> 
> 
> No one here wishes for war, we just know it will come, it always comes.


Sure.

I'm not gonna argue on a topic where we can't even agree on basic facts.

Leta just get back to the topic of seeing how shitty Russia's army is.

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## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596488005447217154
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596409430002003970


"Conditions in #Ukraine make it extremely difficult especially for the #NATO made machines that weren't built for this environment."

*Shows a Soviet made tank stuck in the mud*

Lol, NATO machines were made exactly for that type of environment.



Deino said:


> @waz, @LeGenD and other moderators ... could you please call to end this constant off topic Israel-Iran and Lebanon discussions here in this thread?!!


It's only natural for a Israel-Iran discussion to appear here considering Iran is a side in the Ukraine war


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Beny Karachun said:


> Hezbollah will survive because it's an ideology, in order to kill it you need to kill every one of its supporters, but it will be left powerless, Just like Lebanon.
> 
> Lebanon has no electricity - that means Lebanon has no pumps, no fuel, no water. I want Hezbollah to try and fight under those conditions.
> 
> Russians are a joke, we had a 70 years history of humiliating their equipment. EW works very well, except the frontline of Ukraine is so big neither side can utilize it effectively. This isn't the case in Lebanon.
> 
> Israel's slowed advance was largely due to ATGMs hitting Israel's armor, this problem was negated with the Trophy. So next war Israel's advance would be quicker, what's there to not understand?
> 
> No weapon is tested in combat situation, before it's tested in combat situation. You'll see just how effective that system really is, just like the world was amazed by the Iron Dome.
> 
> There's no need for anything to be 100 percent fool proof. The point of defense systems is to minimize casualties. For example, the Trophy system has a lot more use than just being able to defend tanks. It changes the whole tactical planning and usecase of tanks. A Merkava without Trophy wouldn't dare to rush into the enemy, whereas Merkavas equipped with Trophy would. APCs with no APS wouldn't drive in ATGM threatened roads.
> 
> You are right, we in Israel don't see 2006 as a successful war. But that's because we expect a swift, decisive complete victory with minimal casualties. Anything less than that is a failure in our eyes. But if we are not looking from our eyes, the facts remain: Hezbollah took a massive blow, couldn't stop Israel's invasion to South Lebanon and was only saved by the fact Israel's leadership listened to the international community's peace demands, was overwhelmingly tactically disadvantaged in every encounter with an Israeli force, had many times the casualties of Israel, crashed the Lebanese economy ever since and led Israel to overhaul its entire military to successfully fight against Hezbollah.
> 
> 
> Hezbollah is a guerilla force in 2006, it didn't have massive easily spotted armor formations. In 2006 optics and intelligence sharing were lacking. Today even tiny drones offer high resolution recording that allows drones and aircraft to effectively destroy enemies. Look at Turkey in Syria, they're making Hezbollah and others a joke with their TB2 drones. Why do you think that's possible? Because of high definition thermal optics and precise munitions. Same thing will happen next war.
> 
> Israel had an overwhelming advantage against conventional militaries, not against guerilla forces. Now Israel is trained and equipped to fight against guerilla forces, and you'll see it soon enough.




The same IsraHell that doesn't dare to go to in to Gaza but destroys the civilian infrastructure, buildings from the air, and kills innocent civilians. This ZioCunt is full of hot air. The whole IsraHell go into bomb shelters when they are coming under the rocket rain of the Palestinian resistance.

These cowards are bragging about winning wars when it is the whole Western backing that enabled them to carry out a mass murder. 









'A dangerous message': How the West is enabling Israel's orgy of violence against Palestinians


There can be no clearer demonstration of the hollowness of western values than in the persistent, cynical and criminal failure to bring Israel to book for its actions




www.middleeasteye.net





Their soldiers are the biggest chickens out there. They all start crying after they suffer one casualty. 







Every IsraHelli also gets his (or her) head down and coward arse up as soon as they hear the alarm. 













Listen ZioCunt, the promised day will be fulfilled. It is coming. And that day, the Freemasonry empire that protects your wholesale massacres and evictions of the indigenous Arab population will not be there to protect you. It is a divine promise!

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596552903111585792

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596555661403623426


----------



## Ali_Baba

*Belarus foreign minister dies suddenly at 64 *









Foreign minister of Russian ally Belarus dies suddenly aged 64


Vladimir Makei's sudden death came the day after he met with the Pope's envoy Ante Jozić amid speculation they were discussing a secret peace plan over the war in Ukraine (pictured).




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## The SC




----------



## A.P. Richelieu

That Guy said:


> Objectively, it was pretty even between 1-2 hezbullah casualty for every 1 Israeli casualty. This is from independent reports.
> 
> Only Israel claims a 5-6 to 1 ratio.
> 
> Lebanese infrastructure was devastated by Israeli air strikes, this was a major point of criticism that Israel faced, what are you talking about?
> 
> Again, you are conflating Hezbullah with Lebanon. This is not a state vs state war, it is a state vs militia war. The Lebanese Army stayed mostly away from the fighting.
> 
> You're parroting propaganda that even most objective Israeli analysts don't believe.
> 
> 
> That is absolutely what the report says.
> 
> The criticism basically amounted to "Israel numbah Wan!" And showed zero evidence to back its criticism.


The evidence is in the number of missiles fired by Hezbollah at Israel since 2006.


----------



## aviator_fan

sammuel said:


> So your conclusion is that because Ukraine is getting more Air defense systems , there air defense will be weaker ?


With that sort of conclusion, Russians seem to be getting more tanks, more soldiers, and now more drones so they are weaker. Thats how the situation must be evolving unless the poster chooses to only believe that this theory only applies to Ukraine and not to beloved Russia, much like the propagnda Russia tweets that must be true about their victories daily (that he posts dozens) but all Ukrainians ones are made up.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596114005080391684
> I always wondered why do we have more American propagandists in PDF than the Europeans. It turns out this whole war was a business enterprise for the Americans. Makes sense now.


I wonder why we have so many Russian ones too.


----------



## aviator_fan

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You think that the Israeli goal was to destroy Hezbollah.
> I’d say that the Israeli goal was to put a stop to Hezbollah attacks.
> The Hezbollah goal was to make Israel leave a corner of territory, which Hezbollah considers to be Lebanese. Israel remains there and both Israel and Hezbollah avoids attacking each other.
> You draw your own conclusions from that.


I am not a proponent of what Israel does now, past, or future. But fabricating the situation by making it appear weak and a weak Hizbollah as some strong mighty doesn't help either.

This was about Hizbollah wanting Israel to vacate Sheeba Farms strip. They still occupy it 18 years later. Hizbollah may seem strong but thats only worthwhile to dream about if they will have a chance to exercise it.

Of course its stronger than Labanese Army. Labanese Army and military is non-existent. All light infantry conscripts. Hizbollah is not stronger than Syrian military but yet Syrian military still can't harass Israel in Golan heights and IAF flies with impunity over Syria when it wants and where it wants.

So Hizbollah's paper strength is all a fixation, unless they can get Sheeba Farms back either via direct force, or through threat of force and negotiated settlement.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The same IsraHell that doesn't dare to go to in to Gaza but destroys the civilian infrastructure, buildings from the air, and kills innocent civilians. This ZioCunt is full of hot air. The whole IsraHell go into bomb shelters when they are coming under the rocket rain of the Palestinian resistance.
> 
> These cowards are bragging about winning wars when it is the whole Western backing that enabled them to carry out a mass murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'A dangerous message': How the West is enabling Israel's orgy of violence against Palestinians
> 
> 
> There can be no clearer demonstration of the hollowness of western values than in the persistent, cynical and criminal failure to bring Israel to book for its actions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.middleeasteye.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their soldiers are the biggest chickens out there. They all start crying after they suffer one casualty.
> 
> View attachment 900676
> 
> 
> 
> Every IsraHelli also gets his (or her) head down and coward arse up as soon as they hear the alarm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen ZioCunt, the promised day will be fulfilled. It is coming. And that day, the Freemasonry empire that protects your wholesale massacres and evictions of the indigenous Arab population will not be there to protect you. It is a divine promise!


Don't consider this response as a disagreement other than pointing out that your delusional and smoking something. Israel has well strategically neutered Iraq post 2003 (via US). Saudis and Iranians have bludgeoned Yemeni muslims (probably killed several magnitude of civilians than Israelis have) and more Gulf countries are getting closer to Israel. I never thought that I would see Israelis walking around (proudly in their garb) in Dubai.

So you are really off the beaten track in your imagination since the reality is all headed in the opposite direction

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596557557342294016

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596596035551649793

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

aviator_fan said:


> Don't consider this response as a disagreement other than pointing out that your delusional and smoking something. Israel has well strategically neutered Iraq post 2003 (via US). Saudis and Iranians have bludgeoned Yemeni muslims (probably killed several magnitude of civilians than Israelis have) and more Gulf countries are getting closer to Israel. I never thought that I would see Israelis walking around (proudly in their garb) in Dubai.
> 
> So you are really off the beaten track in your imagination since the reality is all headed in the opposite direction


Like last crusader kingdoms, this western fake white jewish colony will survive as long as western empire manages to keep it alive. As you know every empire falls.

Lots of arab emirate had business relationship with crusader kingdoms. How many crusader kingdom exist now?

Enjoy your temporary crusading success...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596596035551649793




This is probably done to help domestic production - provided they're produced in Russia as well.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596606718796259328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596603834389905410

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

interesting side effec5s from putins master strategy….

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596648737518284800

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596623091907846144

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## khansaheeb

Belarus foreign minister Makei dies suddenly - Belta


Belarus's long-standing foreign minister has died suddenly, the state news agency Belta reported on Saturday, two days before he was meant to meet his Russian counterpart.




www.reuters.com





2 minute readNovember 26, 20228:27 AM PSTLast Updated 10 hours ago
Belarus foreign minister Makei dies suddenly - Belta​Reuters





Belarusian Foreign Minister Vladimir Makei looks on during a joint news conference with Iran's Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian (not pictured), in Tehran, Iran October 26, 2022. WANA (West Asia News Agency)/Handout via REUTERS
Nov 26 (Reuters) - Belarus's long-standing foreign minister has died suddenly, the state news agency Belta reported on Saturday, two days before he was meant to meet his Russian counterpart.
"Foreign Minister Vladimir Makei has passed away suddenly," Belta reported without giving further detail. Makei had held his post since 2012.
Makei, 64, attended a conference of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) - a military alliance of several post soviet states - in Yerevan earlier this week and was due to meet Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov on Monday.




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Before the presidential elections and mass anti-government protests in Belarus in 2020, Makei had been one of the initiators of efforts to improve Belarus' relations with the West and had criticised Russia.
However, he abruptly changed his stance after the start of the protests, saying they were inspired by agents of the West.
After Russia's invasion of Ukraine began in February, Makei, a supporter of close ties between Moscow and Minsk, said the West had provoked the war and that the Ukrainian authorities should agree to the Russian terms of peace.

A few days before the start of the war, Makei promised that there would be no attack on Ukraine from the territory of Belarus. A few days later, Russian troops proved that he was wrong.
"We are shocked by the reports of the death of the Head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Belarus Vladimir Makei," Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova posted in her Telegram channel. "Official condolences will be published soon."
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Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko, who retained power despite the protests of 2020, also expressed his condolences.
Exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, commenting on the minister's death called Makei a traitor to the Belarusian people.
"In 2020, Makei betrayed the Belarusian people and supported tyranny. This is how the Belarusian people will remember him," Tsikhanouskaya said.


----------



## PakFactor

Ukraine's 'People's Satellite' Helping Expose Russian Equipment: Kyiv (msn.com)

@LeGenD @RescueRanger 

This war is a case study of how a minor power outwitted a more significant force through technological power, albeit even if provided these assets during the conflict.
It should be studied in PMA, and funds allocated to replicate many of what the Ukrainians have been doing, all thought that's asking for too much from our guys.

I was reading another article about the unmanned naval vehicle used last month to knock out a Russian battleship that was crudely built in Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596636624284430336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596571455004807174


----------



## khansaheeb

Guided artillery seems to have taken technological leaps. Smart munitions is taking toll on both sides.


----------



## Soldier35

Archival episode of the battle made by a Ukrainian soldier in the Kherson direction, presumably in September. In the video, Ukrainian BTR-70s received from Macedonia. The result of the battle at the end of the video.






The Russian calculation of the Tor-M2U air defense system showed the destruction of the UAV of the Ukrainian army. Usually, the work of SAM crews is not as interesting as the actions of combat units of other troops, since in most cases you cannot see the result. In this case, this is not the case, the moment of the UAV hit is shown on the screen of the air defense system, the UAV type could not be established. The Tor-M2U air defense system is a modification of the 2009 complex, the air defense system can direct missiles at 8 targets and simultaneously fire at 4 at a distance of up to 12 kilometers.






Ukraine received TRLG-230 MLRS from Turkey, as reported in the video, their first use. After the appearance of footage with the MLRS, the Turkish media denied this, it is reported that the installation on the video is most likely Azerbaijani. The TRLG-230 MLRS from the Turkish company Roketsan are quite new; 230 mm missiles were tested in 2020. The missile of this MLRS has a flight range of 70 km and, in the final section of the flight path, can be guided by a Bayraktar TB2 UAV laser beam or ground-based laser target designation. It is worth noting that the Bayraktar TB2 UAV is quite large and can be detected even by older versions of air defense systems, it will be difficult to carry out laser target designation with them in the air defense coverage area. The chassis of the Russian KAMAZ-63501 was used as a platform for the MLRS, and other chassis were reported to accommodate installations.






Russian troops fired MZ-21 incendiary shells at the positions of the Ukrainian army in the village of Nevelskoye near Donetsk. The peculiarity of the 9M22S shells is that the fire they caused cannot be extinguished. A magnesium-based combat incendiary mixture ignites upon burst and reaches a combustion temperature of up to 2700 degrees. Each incendiary shell carries up to 180 incendiary elements and inflicts damage on enemy personnel and lightly armored vehicles.






The Ukrainian army began to use Dingo ATF armored vehicles, some of them were seen in the photo of the Ukrainian Airborne Forces units. Earlier it was reported that Germany will transfer 50 of these machines to Ukraine. Dingo ATF entered service with Germany in 2003. The body of the Dingo-2 machine is made of armored steel and combined armor "MEXAS" and provides protection against bullets of 7.62 mm caliber and explosive devices up to 8 kg of TNT. The machine is produced in nine modifications and is in service with 7 countries. For fire support, a 7.62 mm MG-3 machine gun is used, which can be replaced with a 12.7 mm M2 machine gun or a 40 mm automatic grenade launcher. The vehicle is capable of carrying eight troops. The ATF "Dingo" armored car was created on the Unimog all-wheel drive chassis and has a speed of up to 90 kilometers per hour. The engine power is 237 hp. Power reserve - 1000 km.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Can't win against the Ukrainian IRL so they resort to beating them in a movie. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596465046095368192

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596802544616939520


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## That Guy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The evidence is in the number of missiles fired by Hezbollah at Israel since 2006.


Which occasionally still happens, including drone intrusions, which is a major step up from before 2006.


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## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> Belarus foreign minister Makei dies suddenly - Belta
> 
> 
> Belarus's long-standing foreign minister has died suddenly, the state news agency Belta reported on Saturday, two days before he was meant to meet his Russian counterpart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 minute readNovember 26, 20228:27 AM PSTLast Updated 10 hours ago
> Belarus foreign minister Makei dies suddenly - Belta​Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belarusian Foreign Minister Vladimir Makei looks on during a joint news conference with Iran's Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian (not pictured), in Tehran, Iran October 26, 2022. WANA (West Asia News Agency)/Handout via REUTERS
> Nov 26 (Reuters) - Belarus's long-standing foreign minister has died suddenly, the state news agency Belta reported on Saturday, two days before he was meant to meet his Russian counterpart.
> "Foreign Minister Vladimir Makei has passed away suddenly," Belta reported without giving further detail. Makei had held his post since 2012.
> Makei, 64, attended a conference of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) - a military alliance of several post soviet states - in Yerevan earlier this week and was due to meet Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Register for free to Reuters and know the full story​Register now
> Advertisement · Scroll to continue
> Report an ad
> Before the presidential elections and mass anti-government protests in Belarus in 2020, Makei had been one of the initiators of efforts to improve Belarus' relations with the West and had criticised Russia.
> However, he abruptly changed his stance after the start of the protests, saying they were inspired by agents of the West.
> After Russia's invasion of Ukraine began in February, Makei, a supporter of close ties between Moscow and Minsk, said the West had provoked the war and that the Ukrainian authorities should agree to the Russian terms of peace.
> 
> A few days before the start of the war, Makei promised that there would be no attack on Ukraine from the territory of Belarus. A few days later, Russian troops proved that he was wrong.
> "We are shocked by the reports of the death of the Head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Belarus Vladimir Makei," Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova posted in her Telegram channel. "Official condolences will be published soon."
> Advertisement · Scroll to continue
> Report an ad
> Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko, who retained power despite the protests of 2020, also expressed his condolences.
> Exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, commenting on the minister's death called Makei a traitor to the Belarusian people.
> "In 2020, Makei betrayed the Belarusian people and supported tyranny. This is how the Belarusian people will remember him," Tsikhanouskaya said.


What happened? Falling out of the window by accident? Or is it a hint of Putin what can happen to Lukaschenko if he continues to refuse the join the war? Putin has no humour. All opponents are either dead, poisoned, jailed or in gulags.

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596648737518284800



Oh look - the russians digged their own graves aswell..



Reashot Xigwin said:


> View attachment 900834
> 
> Can't win against the Ukrainian IRL so they resort to beating them in a movie.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596465046095368192



It has been taken straight out of the Indian Army/Indian Keyboard warrior squadrons playbook's to create victories where none exist in text and film and build their whole narrative around those lies..


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## Viet

Russians run amok. running out of conventional missiles they now use nuclear missiles without nuclear war heads to terror bomb Ukraine cities, as per British intel report.

I hope they don’t nuke themselves by mistake.

Where is China?

Can Chinese stop this madness?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russians and Pro-Russian forces taking Ukrainian vehicles and troops from the air. The drones are doing their wonders.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596824471977234433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596826322768220161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596827111243018240

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596329846543720449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596580726224277504


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## SIPRA

It, by and large, seems to be a stalemate and war fatigue, on either side.


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## Beny Karachun

That Guy said:


> Which occasionally still happens, including drone intrusions, which is a major step up from before 2006.


From Hezbollah's side? Zero rockets launched. Rockets were launched by rouge Palestinian militants. 

All intercepted/missed. Drone intrusions are all shot down, unless those are small drones flying in between the mountains at low altitudes, those are much harder to intercept but at the same time pose no threat. 

Anyways, your "baseless lies" claim was disproven, Lebanese border is the most peaceful it has ever been.

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## A.P. Richelieu

That Guy said:


> Which occasionally still happens, including drone intrusions, which is a major step up from before 2006.


One rocket attack in 2022.




__





List of rocket attacks from Lebanon on Israel - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




The Drones are mostly toys


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## That Guy

Beny Karachun said:


> From Hezbollah's side? Zero rockets launched. Rockets were launched by rouge Palestinian militants.
> 
> All intercepted/missed. Drone intrusions are all shot down, unless those are small drones flying in between the mountains at low altitudes, those are much harder to intercept but at the same time pose no threat.
> 
> Anyways, your "baseless lies" claim was disproven, Lebanese border is the most peaceful it has ever been.


I don't fart as much as I used to, but I still fart a lot.

Your point is moot.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> One rocket attack in 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of rocket attacks from Lebanon on Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Drones are mostly toys


Yeah wiki has an incomplete list.

Also, the drones are terrifying enough for Israel to shoot down.

Again, I don't know why we're continuing on with this conversation. Just end it here.

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## ZeGerman

SIPRA said:


> It, by and large, seems to be a stalemate and war fatigue, on either side.


With mud and harsh winter i dont expect many large offensives. Despite the so called “russian winter offensive” 

Will mostly be artillery and drones bombing trenches filled with poor suffering infantry. 

Exposure is also something to worry about. So far ukraine seems to have better winter gear.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

This thread is from a British journalist who went with the Donbass militia (Pro-Russian forces in the Donbass region). The stories of these soldiers are truly amazing. Who wouldn't like the story of these people after they've gone through so much hardship for 8 years under the shelling of the murderous regime in Kiev.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596580726224277504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596542480396472320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596542501464297474

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596542509140037632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596542522347642884

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This thread is from a British journalist who went with the Donbass militia (Pro-Russian forces in the Donbass region). The stories of these soldiers are truly amazing. Who wouldn't like the story of these people after they've gone through so much hardship for 8 years under the shelling of the murderous regime in Kiev.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596580726224277504
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596542480396472320
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596542501464297474
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596542509140037632
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596542522347642884


Iran state affiliated media...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Not at all bias.


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## Ali_Baba

Number of US submarines off UK's coast have DOUBLED this year as NATO​








Number of US submarines off UK's coast have DOUBLED this year


Double the usual number of Nato submarines have been spotted on the surface of the Clyde recently, heading to and from the key Faslane naval base 40 miles from Glasgow.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> in case Putin had doubts over NATO's resolve.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596851254478528512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596844117308604417

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## A.P. Richelieu

That Guy said:


> I don't fart as much as I used to, but I still fart a lot.
> 
> Your point is moot.
> 
> 
> Yeah wiki has an incomplete list.
> 
> Also, the drones are terrifying enough for Israel to shoot down.
> 
> Again, I don't know why we're continuing on with this conversation. Just end it here.


I am OK with ending it here, since you failed to prove your point.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595752687609516034


Yeah it shows the incredible imprecision of russian weapons.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Because Russia only deployed 150,000 men while Ukrainian field over 700,000 men. The Ukies are sending human waves in order to overcome the small Russian defenders. Besides, this is a war that the whole of NATO is fighting. In response, Russia triggered partial mobilization, and those are gonna be ready in the Winter, When those 300,000 men join the battle, Ukies will hopefully be done. Let us not forget Ukraine is thrown into darkness. You want to be NATO's cannon fodder, you stay in the darkness is the Russian motto.


I'm not sure if this is true, but even if it is, it makes no difference. Only thing that matters is who won. No one cares about how many died. USSR lost more than Germany and won WW2. casualties are irrelevant. USSR lost more than Finland and still won. What matters is who wins. Cost is largely irrelevant. 

And yes its true. Russia is fighting whole of west, not just NATO.


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## 925boy

khansaheeb said:


> Guided artillery seems to have taken technological leaps. Smart munitions is taking toll on both sides.


Russia is perfoming better in the artillery context it seems, maybe not much better, but still better nonetheless.

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595756128335499266


Why did he shoot himself? was he in unbearable pain? Or just saw no escape? Every Russian recruit should see this and take a holiday to Turkey or Georgia.


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## That Guy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I am OK with ending it here, since you failed to prove your point.


No need for the snide little remarks, especially since I can say the same for you.

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> Russians are such a bunch of losers,losing against Ukraine now they claim they are fighting against NATO,while they are fighting against Ukrainians armed with our surplus. I can guarantee you Russians would have been pulverized already had Nato joined the game. Close to 100K russian casualties,0 NATO casualties. Make your own thought.


Obviously depending who they fight in NATO. But I imagine the US would be able to take out the whole russian army deployed to Ukraine within a couple of days with less casualties than are gunned down in the 5 biggest US cities in the same time. I think this is obvious to everyone that knows anything.

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## 925boy

SIPRA said:


> It, by and large, seems to be a stalemate and war fatigue, on either side.


maybe, and if so, its only momentary, it will change soon. Winter is here.

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Nope. It was a stalemate. Nasrallah himself said he wouldn't have attacked Israel had he known the reaction.
> 
> Israel is the reason Lebanon is unstable and in economic and political ruins.
> 
> SLA was lost long before 2006, and the reason is a division between the Christians that forgot about the real threat, the Shias.


Israel has arguably been in only one war. This war is still ongoing, since 1947. The fact it has built such an arsenal of nukes shows the grave danger it faces and the immediate threat that could end its existence. 

Israel has certainly won most of the battles in this war, but you can win every battle and then lose the war. 

I think every Arab and every muslim person in the world knows how this war will end and who will win in the end. And interestingly, I think most of the jews in the world know this as well.

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## Ali_Baba

Civilians flee Kherson as liberated city comes under Russian fire


Civilians have been streaming out of the southern Ukrainian city whose recapture they had celebrated just weeks earlier but which has come under days of Russian artillery attack.




www.telegraph.co.uk







> Shivering Russian troops told to take inspiration from explorer who cut out his own appendix​Margarita Simonyan, the chief propagandist at Russia Today and cheerleader of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, has issued some unusual advice for Russian troops shivering in trenches.
> In a rebuke of soldiers complaining about low morale, she called on the army to get "stricter" and then recounted an anecdote about a "real man" - a Russian explorer who cut out his own appendix in the Antarctic:
> 
> 
> 
> This is war...some things must be endured. Let's get used to the fact that we need to treat ourselves stricter, stricter. A real Russian man was a surgeon of an Antarctic expedition who cut out his own appendix because he was the only doctor there. He operated for two hours in terrible pain. He cut out his own appendix, stitched himself up and removed the stitches from himself a few days later.
> 
> 
> 
> She appears to have been referring to Leonid Rogozov.
Click to expand...


Lol - ... everything going to "plan" for the Russian Army then!

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Viet said:


> Russians run amok. running out of conventional missiles they now use nuclear missiles without nuclear war heads to terror bomb Ukraine cities, as per British intel report.
> 
> I hope they don’t nuke themselves by mistake.
> 
> Where is China?
> 
> Can Chinese stop this madness?



Pakistan and China are supporting NATO.


----------



## Vergennes

Ali_Baba said:


> Civilians flee Kherson as liberated city comes under Russian fire
> 
> 
> Civilians have been streaming out of the southern Ukrainian city whose recapture they had celebrated just weeks earlier but which has come under days of Russian artillery attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol - ... everything going to "plan" for the Russian Army then!




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596809714683502595

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## thetutle

aviator_fan said:


> But that aside, Israel moves at its will over Syria and targets whatever it feels without a single S-300 being launched. It still holds Golan. And for every Hamas rocket lands on it, it retaliates by by destroying a city block in Gaza. Which of these is your definition of bad omen? Or the fact that Russia abandoned its most recent location recently in Kherson? And they don't even have Patriots yet.



Israel is a western armed camp "fighting" local western created Arab regimes. It is obviously much more militarily powerful than the people around it who suffer more oppression form their own leaders than from the Israelis. Israel has militarily crushed every oppressed conscript army it has come up against, and will likely continue doing so. The only time Israel ever fought a properly organised volunteer force, it got a stalemate on the battlefield. Israels best chance to survive is to ensure the Arabs are ruled by despotic and corrupt dictators.

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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> Israel has arguably been in only one war. This war is still ongoing, since 1947. The fact it has built such an arsenal of nukes shows the grave danger it faces and the immediate threat that could end its existence.
> 
> Israel has certainly won most of the battles in this war, but you can win every battle and then lose the war.
> 
> I think every Arab and every muslim person in the world knows how this war will end and who will win in the end. And interestingly, I think most of the jews in the world know this as well.


Huh? Most Jews in the world ensure Israel's superiority. Israel's enemies have been divided. Not only that, the division made Israel's former enemies to its allies. 

Israel's arsenal of nukes ensures no one will mess with it. It isn't "showing Israel's existence is at threat" it's full on countering such a threat. 

Or do you believe the 8 other nations including the US are also facing such a threat because they developed nukes?


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## 925boy

That Guy said:


> Iran state affiliated media...
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> Not at all bias.


attacking the source of a news doesnt invalidate the news, just keeping it technical.


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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Hezbollah is actually weaker than ever before.
> 
> As I mentioned, Israel countered every weapon they have. Lebanon is politically dividend more than ever, they had thousands of casualties in Syria and even more injured, and don't count that as experience since all that experience is worthless, they would be facing an enemy with air superiority, massively upgraded surveillance capability and way bigger armed drone fleet, way more standoff weapons, counter artillery radars linked with HIMARS type MLRS (PULS family) and precision guided 155mm shells for <5 minutes kill chain, the tanks they will be facing wouldn't be T55s operated by goat herders but Merkava Mk4s and Namer/Namera with Trophy APS and new modern systems interlinked with a new BMS that's installed on every Israeli vehicle and platoon, suicide drones, signal jamming, the destruction of every power plant in Lebanon and more.
> 
> Israel's army in 2006 is a shadow of Israel's military today. Israel prepared itself for 16 years, adjusted its tactics and technology. Meanwhile Hezbollah remains the same, with the addition of easily encountered drones.


If you need all this to defend from a militia, I would be very concerned. Every Arab army you can clearly destroy, I'll accept that. So all this is for a militia. hmmmm think about that for a minute.

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## F-22Raptor

Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





Russian losses now exceed 8,100

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Meanwhile Israel's economy grew up so much it is now wealthier than most Western European nations.


No one should be surprised by this. Who controlled most of the money in Western Europe for 1,000 years? Basically, nothing has changed. Wealth often is not an indicator of strength.

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Huh? Most Jews in the world ensure Israel's superiority. Israel's enemies have been divided. Not only that, the division made Israel's former enemies to its allies.


Most jews in the world are smart enough to not live in Israel. 


Beny Karachun said:


> Or do you believe the 8 other nations including the US are also facing such a threat because they developed nukes?


Thats a great question. I would say there are 2 types of countries that have nukes. the ones that use it to ensure their economic and military dominance in the world, and those that have existential issues. I will let you decide which one Israel is. 

in 100 years Norway will still be a country. You can bet on that, it does not need nukes to ensure it is safe and prosperous country. Its future is quite assured. Can you say the same about Israel? If you are a small country at war with everyone, and you need 200-300 nukes, it tells me all I need to know about the country.

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## thetutle

Ali_Baba said:


> *Belarus foreign minister dies suddenly at 64 *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign minister of Russian ally Belarus dies suddenly aged 64
> 
> 
> Vladimir Makei's sudden death came the day after he met with the Pope's envoy Ante Jozić amid speculation they were discussing a secret peace plan over the war in Ukraine (pictured).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Hmmm, shake hands with a nato priest, die a few days later. Not good.



Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Like last crusader kingdoms, this western fake white jewish colony will survive as long as western empire manages to keep it alive. As you know every empire falls.


This is true. But it cold be logs time. some crusader kingdoms survived 150 years if im not mistaken. 


Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Lots of arab emirate had business relationship with crusader kingdoms.


Good point


Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> How many crusader kingdom exist now?


Armenia is another one. Created by russia out of muslim lands. Larger than Israel. And yet so many muslims support them. Lebanon was another one, but it seems to have fallen to the muslims. 


Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Enjoy your temporary crusading success...


They seem like they are.


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596329846543720449


These are just kids, they are probably saying, I caught a fish this tall.


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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> If you need all this to defend from a militia, I would be very concerned. Every Arab army you can clearly destroy, I'll accept that. So all this is for a militia. hmmmm think about that for a minute.


Who told you Israel's army is solely against a militia? Our air to air missiles are against Hezbollah? Our submarines? Arrow 3 missiles? Anti ship missiles? 

That's some serious cope.



thetutle said:


> No one should be surprised by this. Who controlled most of the money in Western Europe for 1,000 years? Basically, nothing has changed. Wealth often is not an indicator of strength.


Lol


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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> Most jews in the world are smart enough to not live in Israel.


Most Muslims don't live in Saudi Arabia, most Christians don't live in Nazereth, what does that have to do with anything?

All you say is some trivial fact and try to twist it against Israel, basically coping.



thetutle said:


> Thats a great question. I would say there are 2 types of countries that have nukes. the ones that use it to ensure their economic and military dominance in the world, and those that have existential issues. I will let you decide which one Israel is.
> 
> in 100 years Norway will still be a country. You can bet on that, it does not need nukes to ensure it is safe and prosperous country. Its future is quite assured. Can you say the same about Israel? If you are a small country at war with everyone, and you need 200-300 nukes, it tells me all I need to know about the country


I don't know, considering the fact Israel is richer per capita than the UK, France, China, North Korea, Pakistan and India, with a military more modernly equipped than all of those for the most part, with far more combat experience than all of those as well, I'd guess Israel is in the showing off military and economic power part.

Your wishful thinking is just coping dude.

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Who told you Israel's army is solely against a militia? Our air to air missiles are against Hezbollah? Our submarines? Arrow 3 missiles? Anti ship missiles?
> 
> That's some serious cope.


Who can you use it against? Saudi Arabia? please. There is no state army in the Middle East that can challenge you. So who is all this military for? Until the emergence of some islamic superpower, this military strength can only be used against non state actors. Which tells you a lot about the non state actors.


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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> Who can you use it against? Saudi Arabia? please. There is no state army in the Middle East that can challenge you. So who is all this military for? Until the emergence of some islamic superpower, this military strength can only be used against non state actors. Which tells you a lot about the non state actors.


Obviously Iran lol



thetutle said:


> Who can you use it against? Saudi Arabia? please. There is no state army in the Middle East that can challenge you. So who is all this military for? Until the emergence of some islamic superpower, this military strength can only be used against non state actors. Which tells you a lot about the non state actors.


So according to this laughable logic the US needs all of its 12 aircraft carrier strike groups, air defenses, 6th generation NGAD fighters, thousands of nuclear warheads mounted on ICBMs, B21 raiders, thousands of Abrams tanks and basically the strongest standing military on earth just to fight some militias up until another super power grows, and that somehow makes it under existential threat by those same militias? You're just reaching.

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Most Muslims don't live in Saudi Arabia, most Christians don't live in Nazereth, what does that have to do with anything?
> 
> All you say is some trivial fact and try to twist it against Israel, basically coping.


I have nothing against Israel. In fact I would prefer jewish people live there then in my neighbourhood. Most muslims are not indigenous to Saudi Arabia, so they are not going to want to move there. But the Israeli claim is that jews are indigenous to Israel, and they have a right to live there. But they sadly dont. Because they are pretty smart.

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## Viet

Russia is now classified as terrorist state by the EU.

Congrats.










The Impact of Designating Russia a Terrorist State | Geopolitical Monitor


The European Parliament’s move represents an important step, but complacency is a risk as the Ukraine war drags into 2023.



www.geopoliticalmonitor.com

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> I don't know, considering the fact Israel is richer per capita than the UK, France, China, North Korea, Pakistan and India, with a military more modernly equipped than all of those for the most part, with far more combat experience than all of those as well, I'd guess Israel is in the showing off military and economic power part.
> 
> Your wishful thinking is just coping dude.


I dont think so. I could be wrong, but I dont think so. To compare Israel with france or UK, or even North Korea. come on. The moment support from all the western countries stops, Israel can just surrender. Israel is just an extension of the west. Totally armed and funded by the west. You know this. And its fine. Its like Armenia only exists because of Russia. Every empire have their pet projects.

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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> I have nothing against Israel. In fact I would prefer jewish people live there then in my neighbourhood. Most muslims are not indigenous to Saudi Arabia, so they are not going to want to move there. But the Israeli claim is that jews are indigenous to Israel, and they have a right to live there. But they sadly dont. Because they are pretty smart.


Most Arabs don't live in Saudi Arabia even though they're all indegious to Saudi Arabia. I don't get how you don't see the way you're reaching 

Jews stay overseas because their position there is too good to pass on. They support Israel through organisations like AIPAC and such. Even the ones born outside often come to Israel to serve in the military and then go back.



thetutle said:


> I dont think so. I could be wrong, but I dont think so. To compare Israel with france or UK, or even North Korea. come on. The moment support from all the western countries stops, Israel can just surrender. Israel is just an extension of the west. Totally armed and funded by the west. You know this. And its fine. Its like Armenia only exists because of Russia. Every empire have their pet projects.


I said facts. Look at the 2022 GDP per capita. Look at the success of the Israeli military. 

Jews control the west, you really expect the west to stop supporting Israel? Besides, less than 1 percent of our GDP comes in the form of "aid" and it is given to Israel because it's the best investment the US can make.

Israel won against the Arabs in 1948 and 1967 without any support.


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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> So according to this laughable logic the US needs all of its 12 aircraft carrier strike groups, air defenses, 6th generation NGAD fighters, thousands of nuclear warheads mounted on ICBMs, B21 raiders, thousands of Abrams tanks and basically the strongest standing military on earth just to fight some militias up until another super power grows, and that somehow makes it under existential threat by those same militias? You're just reaching.


US has adversaries it can use it against. Israel will not openly fight Iran or anyone in that league. It will always be proxy wars.

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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> US has adversaries it can use it against. Israel will not openly fight Iran or anyone in that league. It will always be proxy wars.


Again reaching.
US has no adverseries up until they start to fight them, that's the logic you use.

Israel had plenty of direct confrontation with Iran, every time Israel bombs Syria or Iraq it means a few IRGC members along with the weapon shipment they have were blown up. Iranians and Syrians in turn try to use air defenses and we blow those up as well.

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Most Arabs don't live in Saudi Arabia even though they're all indegious to Saudi Arabia. I don't get how you don't see the way you're reaching


I made my point. you dont have to accept it. 


Beny Karachun said:


> Jews stay overseas because their position there is too good to pass on.


Thats for sure. Waaaay too good. 



Beny Karachun said:


> They support Israel through organisations like AIPAC and such. Even the ones born outside often come to Israel to serve in the military and then go back.


yes


Beny Karachun said:


> I said facts. Look at the 2022 GDP per capita.


I don't need to see GDP figures to know who has all the money in the world. I know who pays my salary and who owns everything. So no argument form me there.


Beny Karachun said:


> Jews control the west, you really expect the west to stop supporting Israel?


I would not say "control", I'm not antisemitic. I would say, have a disproportionate influence. And will they stop this support. hmmmm, I dont know, its possible. Maybe or maybe not. some jewish people I know are pretty good people, so they may do good things in the future.


Beny Karachun said:


> Israel won against the Arabs in 1948 and 1967 without any support.


lol, no. just no.

I just hope when Ukraine wins it does not develop the Israeli complex and starts to believe they're some sort of superpower. Ukrainian strength is just a projection of western power. And a tiny projection at that.

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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> lol, no. just no.
> 
> I just hope when Ukraine wins it does not develop the Israeli complex and starts to believe they're some sort of superpower. Ukrainian strength is just a projection of western power. And a tiny projection at that.


Israel had far more glorious victories against proportionally far bigger enemies supported by the USSR in a much shorter time, without anyone to back it up. 1967 is an example.

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Israel had far more glorious victories against proportionally far bigger enemies supported by the USSR in a much shorter time, without anyone to back it up. 1967 is an example.


thats just comedy. satellite pictures, weapons intelligence, money. All western. Its amazing isn't it. You wander the earth for 2,000 years, then some nice people decide to gift you a patch of sand because they feel sorry for you, arm you and fund you and from this patch of sand smaller than Armenia you proclaim your superpower status, it's hilarious.

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## PakFactor

thetutle said:


> thats just comedy. satellite pictures, weapons intelligence, money. All western. Its amazing isn't it. You wander the earth for 2,000 years, then some nice people decide to gift you a patch of sand because they feel sorry for you, arm you and fund you and from this patch of sand smaller than Armenia you proclaim your superpower status, it's hilarious.



Exactly. I remember reading a book by some ex-Secretary of State about how the Israelis came begging for arms and additional support, similar to the British Churchill coming to the U.S.

While we see Ukraine prospering in the conflict, let's not forget the tide turned when Western arms and support came rolling in. Like the link, I posted a few pages back satellite information, accurate, timely information on the position of Russian forces and assets. Ukraine's hooked into the Western C4I system.

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## That Guy

925boy said:


> attacking the source of a news doesnt invalidate the news, just keeping it technical.


No, but obviously propaganda sources should be taken with a grain of salt.

Iran has chosen a side in the war, so I will remain skeptical of the claims made.


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## Ali_Baba

Russia on brink of retreat as forces could flee Ukraine nuclear plant


The head of Ukraine's state-run nuclear energy firm says there are signs that Russian forces might be preparing to leave the area.




www.express.co.uk





>> Another Russia withdrawl coming .... or a " strategic military respositioning of forces in the combat area" as the Russian's say !

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## LeGenD

Is this thread about Israel? On topic please.

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## The SC




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## ziaulislam

_








Videos Suggest Captive Russian Soldiers Were Killed at Close Range


Videos circulating online and reported on by Russian state media have raised questions about whether Ukrainian soldiers committed a war crime.




www.nytimes.com




_
Ukriane is playing with fire here.
Russia just wants an excuse to horribly escalate

Anyway I assume ukriane will soon produce nuclear weapons using spent fuel from it's civilians reactors.

Probably another 6-8 months

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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What are you referring to in that link? You need to mention the post# and explain what is it that you disagree with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because Russia only deployed 150,000 men while Ukrainian field over 700,000 men. The Ukies are sending human waves in order to overcome the small Russian defenders. Besides, this is a war that the whole of NATO is fighting. In response, Russia triggered partial mobilization, and those are gonna be ready in the Winter, When those 300,000 men join the battle, Ukies will hopefully be done. Let us not forget Ukraine is thrown into darkness. You want to be NATO's cannon fodder, you stay in the darkness is the Russian motto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians killed the POWs they held, but Russians treated them humanely. That is why you see Ukrainian pows turned over to Zelenky admin.


 Surely any worthy Russian General would have planned for this? They should have had 1 million soldiers ready before they engaged NATO and another million under training. Can't believe Russian army would be that incompetent unless they had a short threshold for nukes. It seems NATO and Putin are happy to sacrifice millions of lives for a purpose which appears very suspect.

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## MeFishToo

ziaulislam said:


> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Videos Suggest Captive Russian Soldiers Were Killed at Close Range
> 
> 
> Videos circulating online and reported on by Russian state media have raised questions about whether Ukrainian soldiers committed a war crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> Ukriane is playing with fire here.
> Russia just wants an excuse to horribly escalate
> 
> Anyway I assume ukriane will soon produce nuclear weapons using spent fuel from it's civilians reactors.
> 
> Probably another 6-8 months


Russia need no excuses. They have created excuses for years, so it doesnt matter if the ukrainian soldiers committed a war crime or not.
The truth only matters to Ukraines western partners, and its obvious the russian soldier comming out firing, while his comrades were about to surrender, is to blame.

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## khansaheeb

Russian Bear today

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## khansaheeb

Beny Karachun said:


> Most Arabs don't live in Saudi Arabia even though they're all indegious to Saudi Arabia. I don't get how you don't see the way you're reaching
> 
> Jews stay overseas because their position there is too good to pass on. They support Israel through organisations like AIPAC and such. Even the ones born outside often come to Israel to serve in the military and then go back.
> 
> 
> I said facts. Look at the 2022 GDP per capita. Look at the success of the Israeli military.
> 
> Jews control the west, you really expect the west to stop supporting Israel? Besides, less than 1 percent of our GDP comes in the form of "aid" and it is given to Israel because it's the best investment the US can make.
> 
> Israel won against the Arabs in 1948 and 1967 without any support.


You got and get free tax payer money from USA, UK and other Zion controlled countries.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596930597737594880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596933929566892032

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## Titanium100

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596930597737594880
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596933929566892032



Will the Ukrainians pull back from Bakhmut

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## 925boy

Titanium100 said:


> Will the Ukrainians pull back from Bakhmut


Likely- PMC and RF have been working AFU in Bakhmut...but some armchair generals on this thread already told us Bakhmut has "no value"- well if it had no value then why was it worth for AFU to lose 250 soldiers a day there recently?

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## Titanium100

925boy said:


> Likely- PMC and RF have been working AFU in Bakhmut...but some armchair generals on this thread already told us Bakhmut has "no value"- well if it had no value then why was it worth for AFU to lose 250 soldiers a day there recently?



Bakhmut has been a meat-grinder and they are preparing to fall-back the Ukrainians especially as the winter kicks in.. 

I am hearing a new massive offensive will come from the North in around Belarus area against Kyiv and the northern area in order to streach the Ukrainians thin

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## Elvin

Ukrainian has the ability to put 5mil men into uniform… they haven’t even scratched the surface of their reserves. Is Russia willing to mobilize another 2-3 mil men for Ukraine?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596990465014128640


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## The SC

Ukraine War Map | Russia Captures Ozarianivka | Trench Warfare in Bakhmut is HELL ON EARTH​

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596930601424015360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596930608470843393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596930616507133952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596933929566892032


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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> thats just comedy. satellite pictures, weapons intelligence, money. All western. Its amazing isn't it. You wander the earth for 2,000 years, then some nice people decide to gift you a patch of sand because they feel sorry for you, arm you and fund you and from this patch of sand smaller than Armenia you proclaim your superpower status, it's hilarious.


What satellite pictures in 1948 and 1967? What western money in up until 1967? Israel bought all of its arms fair and square, in contrast to our enemies received aid from the USSR in every war.


You just cope hard because the Jews are more successful than you will ever be. No one is claiming we are a superpower, it's just that we constantly humiliate such powers

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, NOVEMBER 26​Nov 26, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Karolina Hird, Riley Bailey, Grace Mappes, Angela Howard, and Frederick W. Kagan
November 26, 3:45pm ET*​*Click here to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The overall pace of operations along the frontline has slowed in recent days due to deteriorating weather conditions but is likely to increase starting in the next few weeks as temperatures drop and the ground freezes throughout the theater. *Ukrainian and Russian reporting from critical frontline areas throughout eastern and southern Ukraine, including Svatove, Bakhmut, and Vuhledar, indicates that operations on both sides are currently bogged down by heavy rain and resulting heavy mud.[1] Temperatures are forecasted to drop throughout Ukraine over the next week, which will likely freeze the ground and expedite the pace of fighting as mobility increases for both sides. The temperature in areas in Ukraine’s northeast, such as along the Svatove-Kreminna line, will dip to near-or-below-freezing daily highs between November 28 and December 4. It will likely take the ground some days of consistent freezing temperatures to solidify, which means that ground conditions are likely to be set to allow the pace of operations to increase throughout Ukraine over the course of the weekend of December 3-4 and into the following week. It is unclear if either side is actively planning or preparing to resume major offensive or counter-offensive operations at that time, but the meteorological factors that have been hindering such operations will begin lifting.
*Russian officials are continuing efforts to deport children to Russian under the guise of medical rehabilitation schemes and adoption programs. *The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on November 26 that the Russian occupation administration in Luhansk Oblast conducted medical examinations of 15,000 children between the ages of two and 17 and found that 70% of the children (10,500) are in need of “special medical care” that requires them to be removed to Russia for “treatment.”[2] The Resistance Center stated that Russian officials intend these forced deportation schemes to lure children’s families to Russia to collect their children after the children receive treatments, at which point the Resistance Center assessed Russian officials will prevent those families from returning home to Ukraine. The Center‘s report is consistent with ISW’s previous assessment that Russian officials are conducting a deliberate depopulation campaign in occupied Ukrainian territories.[3]
Russian Commissioner for Children’s Rights Maria Lvova-Belova additionally posted an excerpt from a documentary film chronicling the story of the children she adopted from Mariupol.[4] Lvova-Belova has largely been at the forefront of the concerted Russian effort to remove Ukrainian children from Ukrainian territory and adopt them into Russian families, which may constitute a violation of the Geneva Convention as well as a deliberate ethnic cleansing campaign.[5] Lvova-Belova's documentary is likely meant to lend legitimacy to the ongoing adoption of Ukrainian children into Russian families, just as the guise of medical necessity is likely intended to justify mass deportations of Ukrainian children to Russian territory.
*Russian officials may be attempting to counterbalance the influence of Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin through the promotion of other parallel military structures. *The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on November 26 that Russian officials appointed a Viktor Yanukovych-linked, pro-Kremlin businessman, Armen Sarkisyan, as the new administrator for prisons in Russian-occupied territories in Ukraine and that Sarkisyan intends to use the role to create a new “private military company.”[6] The GUR reported that Sarkisyan modeled his effort to create a new private military company on the Wagner Group’s recruitment of prisoners in the Russian Federation and that Russian-Armenian businessman Samvel Karapetyan is sponsoring the effort.[7] Karapetyan is the owner of Tashir Holding company, a longtime subcontractor for Russian state-owned energy company Gazprom.[8] The GUR reported that Sarkisyan’s attempt to create a new private military structure is an attempt to create a counterweight to Prigozhin’s de facto monopoly in the field of Russian private military companies.[9] It is likely that high-ranking Russian officials have approved Sarkisyan’s efforts as private military companies are illegal in Russia.
Head of the Chechen Republic Ramzan Kadyrov reported that he met with Russian President Vladimir Putin on November 25 and claimed that they discussed the participation of Chechen units in the war in Ukraine and the creation of new Russian military and Rosgvardia units comprised of Chechen personnel.[10] ISW has previously reported that Kadyrov routinely promotes his efforts to create Chechen-based parallel military structures.[11] Russian officials may be further promoting Kadyrov’s existing parallel military structures and Sarkisyan’s efforts to create a private military company to counteract the growing influence of Prigozhin, whom ISW has previously assessed uses his own parallel military structures to establish himself as a central figure in the Russian pro-war ultranationalist community.[12]
*Russian forces are likely using inert Kh-55 cruise missiles in their massive missile strike campaign against Ukrainian critical infrastructure, further highlighting the depletion of the Russian military’s high-precision weapons arsenal. *The United Kingdom Ministry of Defense (MoD) reported on November 26 that Russia is likely removing nuclear warheads from aging Kh-55 missiles and launching the missiles without warheads at targets in Ukraine.[13] The UK MoD suggested that Russian forces are likely launching the inert missiles as decoys to divert Ukrainian air defenses.[14] Ukrainian officials have previously reported that since mid-October, Russian forces have extensively used the non-nuclear variant of the missile system, the Kh-555, to conduct strikes on critical Ukrainian infrastructure.[15] The Russian military’s likely use of a more strategic weapon system in the role of a decoy for Ukrainian air defenses corroborates ISW’s previous reporting that the Russian military has significantly depleted its arsenal of high-precision missiles.[16] The use of more strategic weapons systems in support of the campaign against Ukrainian infrastructure suggests that the Russian military is heavily committed to the strike campaign and still mistakenly believes that it can generate strategically significant effects through that campaign.
*Key Takeaways*

*The overall pace of operations in Ukraine is likely to increase in the upcoming weeks as the ground freezes throughout the theater.*
*Russian officials are continuing efforts to deport Ukrainian children to Russia.*
*Russian officials may be trying to counteract Wagner financier Yevgeny Prigozhin’s growing influence through the promotion of other parallel Russian military structures.*
*Russian forces are likely using inert Kh-55 missiles designed solely to carry nuclear warheads in its campaign against Ukrainian infrastructure, highlighting the Russian military’s depletion of high-precision weapons.*
*Russian forces continued defensive operations against ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensive operations along the Svatove-Kreminna line.*
*Russian forces continued offensive operations in the directions of Bakhmut and Avdiivka.*
*Russian forces continued establishing fortifications in eastern Kherson Oblast.*
*Russian tactical, logistical, and equipment failures continue to decrease the morale of Russian troops and drive searches for scapegoats.*
 


*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and one supporting effort);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)*
*

*
*Eastern Ukraine: (Eastern Kharkiv Oblast-Western Luhansk Oblast)*
Russian forces continued defensive operations against ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensives along the Svatove-Kreminna line on November 26. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are conducting active defense operations northwest of Svatove in the direction of Kupyansk and west of Kreminna in the direction of Lyman.[17] Russian sources continued to discuss marginal Russian advances within Novoselivske, 15km northwest of Svatove.[18] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian troops repelled Ukrainian attacks on Kolomychikha (10km west of Svatove) and Ploshchanka (15km north of Kreminna).[19] Ukrainian Luhansk Oblast Head Serhiy Haidai noted that Ukrainian troops are continuing to succeed around Svatove and Kreminna, partially due to the low quality and incoherence of mobilized Russian recruits operating in the area.[20] Haidai reported that Ukrainian troops are additionally defending against continual Russian attacks on Bilohorivka, 10km south of Kreminna.[21]
*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine*
*

*
*Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to conduct offensive operations around Bakhmut on November 26. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults near Bakhmut, within 4km south of Bakhmut near Opytne, and within 18km northeast of Bakhmut near Soledar, Bakhmutske, and Yakovlivka.[22] A Russian milblogger posted a control of terrain map claiming that Russian forces control Opytne, although ISW has not observed visual evidence to corroborate this claim.[23] Russian and Ukrainian sources continued to claim that muddy conditions are slowing operations in the Bakhmut area.[24] A Russian milblogger claimed that fierce fighting between Ukrainian and Russian forces continued on the southern outskirts of Bakhmut.[25]
Russian forces continued to conduct offensive operations in the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area on November 26. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults within 23km southwest of Avdiivka near Pervomaiske, Krasnohorivka, and Nevelske.[26] A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces also continued offensive operations in the direction of Novomykhailivka (36km southwest of Avdiivka).[27] Geolocated footage posted on November 26 shows Ukrainian forces striking advancing Russian tanks southwest of Novoselivka Druha (9km northeast of Avdiivka).[28]
Russian forces continued to conduct defensive operations in western Donetsk and eastern Zaporizhia oblasts on November 26. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are conducting active defensive operations in these areas.[29] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian counterattacks within 79km southwest of Donetsk City near Mykilske and Vremivka in western Donetsk Oblast.[30] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued routine artillery and air strikes along the line of contact in Donetsk and eastern Zaporizhia oblasts.[31]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)
Note: ISW will report on activities in Kherson Oblast as part of the Southern Axis in this and subsequent updates. Ukraine’s counteroffensive in right-bank Kherson Oblast has accomplished its stated objectives, so ISW will not present a Southern Ukraine counteroffensive section until Ukrainian forces resume counteroffensives in southern Ukraine.*
Russian forces continued establishing fortifications in eastern Kherson Oblast and conducted routine artillery fire against areas on the west (right) bank of the Dnipro River on November 26. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are fortifying their positions along an unspecified coastline, likely referring to the Black Sea coast, and are preparing a defense-in-depth.[32] Russian forces are reportedly moving MLRS and S-300 systems closer to Kherson City, indicating that Russian forces may intend to increase the tempo of rocket and anti-air missile strikes against ground targets north of the Dnipro River in the coming days.[33] Ukrainian officials reported that Russian forces shelled Kherson City, Antonivka, Chornobaivka, and Beryslav – all on the west (right) bank of the Dnipro River.[34]
Ukrainian forces continued to strike Russian force concentrations and military assets in Russian rear areas in southern Ukraine. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces struck a Russian ammunition depot in Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast, injuring 50 Russian military personnel, and two warehouses in Vasylivskyi Raion, injuring 130 personnel and destroying seven pieces of equipment.[35] The Ukrainian Mayor of Melitopol, Ivan Fedorov, reported that Ukrainian forces struck a Russian ammunition depot in Mykhailivka on the northern outskirts of Melitopol on November 25.[36] A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces struck Chaplynka (40km south of Nova Kakhovka on the T2202 Nova Kakhovka-Armiansk route) and Skadovsk (R57-T2213 intersection on the Kherson City-Skadovsk route) in Kherson Oblast.[37]
Russian forces continued to conduct routine artillery, rocket, and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole and in Mykolaiv and Dnipropetrovsk oblasts on November 26. Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck Dnipro City.[38] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces shelled Ochakiv, less than 5km north of the Kinburn Spit. Ukrainian officials reported that Russian forces shelled Nikopol and Marhanets, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.[39]
*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Russian tactical, logistical, and equipment failures continue to decrease the morale of Russian troops and drive searches for scapegoats. Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) First Deputy Information Minister Danil Bezsonov claimed on November 25 that “the mistakes of military authorities of all levels” forced Russian President Vladimir Putin to order unpopular partial mobilization.[40] Bezsonov alleged that Russian military authorities are relying on the mobilized personnel to correct authorities’ planning mistakes while leaving mobilized soldiers in poor conditions.[41] A prominent Russian milblogger described “extremely outdated equipment” with which mobilized soldiers were photographed during training in Kostroma as “depressing.”[42] Another Russian milblogger lamented the inability of Russian forces to defend against Ukrainian drones without anti-drone systems, thermal imagers, drones, and radio stations.[43] The milblogger blamed wealthy elites for their failure to understand the importance of anti-drone warfare.[44] The Ukrainian General Staff stated on November 26 that Russian authorities continue to struggle to provide logistical support for mobilized soldiers.[45] Russian civilians are reportedly decreasingly willing to support material drives to fill that gap, though civilian collection drives for mobilized soldiers are ongoing.[46]
Actors in the Russian information space have been divided on whether to accept complaints of Russian soldiers as guidance for improvement or to quash them for decreasing faith in Russian military leadership, as ISW has previously reported.[47] Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) First Deputy Information Minister Danil Bezsonov argued that mobilized soldiers deserve proper treatment, equipment, weapons, and attention and have the right to complain about a lack of proper equipment on November 25.[48] Bezsonov stated the mobilized do not have the right to complain about spending the night on the floor of a military recruitment office or about harsh conditions on the front.[49]
A Russian source framed Russian President Vladimir Putin’s November 25 creation of an electronic state information resource for information on citizens registered with the military as a resource useful in supporting better provisioning of soldiers fighting Ukraine.[50] The database is projected to begin working on April 1 to coincide with spring conscription.[51]
Russian forces’ continued difficulties providing for soldiers’ medical needs are already hindering the treatment of civilians in Russian-occupied territories. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on November 26 that Russian forces in Luhansk Oblast have suffered major losses and are increasingly appropriating civilian hospitals in occupied areas for exclusively military use.[52] Civilians in Luhansk Oblast are reportedly facing increased difficulty accessing medical services and finding space in morgues.[53] ISW reported on additional impacts of Russian forces’ growing demand for medical care on November 25.[54]
The Kremlin continues to respond disproportionately to a limited domestic resistance to Russia’s war in Ukraine. A prominent Russian news source reported on November 25 that Russian authorities created three additional police controls and dispatched almost a dozen police and Federal Protective Service personnel (FSO) to patrol the Kremlin walls around the clock after an unidentified individual wrote “no to war” on the wall of the Kremlin.[55] The scale of such a response indicates continued Kremlin concern over domestic resistance and commitment to shaping the domestic information space and/or for the security of the Kremlin itself.
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems) *
See the topline text.
*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update. * 


[1] https://****/stranaua/77323; https://****/miroshnik_r/9699; https://****/voenkorKotenok/43013; https://www.kp dot ru/daily/27475/4682355/?from=tg 
[2] https://sprotyv.mod dot gov.ua/2022/11/26/rosiyany-pidgotuvaly-105-tys-ditej-do-vyvezennya-v-rosiyu/
[3] https://isw.pub/UkrWar111622; https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[4] https://****/malvovabelova/809; http://tsargrad-tv.turbopages dot org/tsargrad.tv/s/shows/jeto-moj-rebjonok-istorija-prijomnogo-syna-marii-lvovoj-belovoj_667473
[5] https://isw.pub/UkrWar111622
[6] https://gur.gov dot ua/content/pryznacheno-novoho-smotriashcheho-za-v-iaznytsiamy-na-terytorii-rf-ta-tymchasovo-okupovanykh-terytoriiakh-ukrainy.html
[7] https://gur.gov dot ua/content/pryznacheno-novoho-smotriashcheho-za-v-iaznytsiamy-na-terytorii-rf-ta-tymchasovo-okupovanykh-terytoriiakh-ukrainy.html
[8] https://www.forbes.com/profile/samvel-karapetyan/?sh=2134d5046e19
[9] https://gur.gov dot ua/content/pryznacheno-novoho-smotriashcheho-za-v-iaznytsiamy-na-terytorii-rf-ta-tymchasovo-okupovanykh-terytoriiakh-ukrainy.html
[10] https://****/RKadyrov_95/3145 
[11] https://isw.pub/UkrWar102822
[12] https://isw.pub/UkrWar111622
[13]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596389927733927937[14]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596389927733927937[15] 



СуспільнеНовини ; https://****/kpszsu/2171 ; https://www.facebook.com/kpszsu/posts/pfbid028rM22wAaW31zUjgULCqczHbKSZQ... ; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0CJCe33EJrD9HjaE9FNd... ; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02rznceYc3QUWkDR7BrB... ; https://www dot pravda.com.ua/articles/2022/10/24/7373160/ ; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02iuwf3frMqYrBZcoYCm... ; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02VU4ruthEkw8DEpZpxW...; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0Psc44zGz1CABwxT4V8h... ; https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/kh-555.htm
[16] https://isw.pub/UkrWar112222
[17]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[18] https://****/mod_russia/22105; https://****/riafan_everywhere/14707; https://****/voenkors/260; https://****/boris_rozhin/71330; https://****/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/20073
[19] https://****/mod_russia/22105
[20] https://****/luhanskaVTSA/7070
[21] https://****/luhanskaVTSA/7070
[22]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[23] https://****/wargonzo/9453
[24] https://****/stranaua/77323 ; https://****/voenkorKotenok/43032
[25] https://****/wargonzo/9453
[26]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[27] https://****/wargonzo/9453
[28]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596401265436610560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596489111019425792[29]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02dyWDxtc9M1aFg8A2ea... ; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[30] https://****/mod_russia/22105 
[31]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02dyWDxtc9M1aFg8A2ea... ; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[32]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[33] https://****/hueviyherson/29900
[34]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...; https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02dyWDxtc9M1aFg8A2ea...; https://****/khersonskaODA/2051; https://****/khersonskaODA/2038; https://www.facebook.com/sergey.khlan/posts/pfbid02V1LVfaobXJQ8ahGVfu1K9... https://****/hueviyherson/29881
[35]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[36] https://****/ivan_fedorov_melitopol/945
[37] https://****/wargonzo/9453
[38] https://****/voenkorKotenok/43022; https://****/dnipropetrovskaODA/2575; https://****/dnipropetrovskaODA/2573; https://****/dnipropetrovskaODA/2572; https://****/boris_rozhin/71325; https://****/stranaua/77280; https://****/m0sc0wcalling/15136; https://****/m0sc0wcalling/15135; https://****/readovkanews/47705; https://****/readovkanews/47706; https://****/stranaua/77314
[39] https://****/Yevtushenko_E/1512; https://****/vilkul/2298; https://****/dnipropetrovskaODA/2569
[40] https://****/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/20067
[41] https://****/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/20067
[42] https://****/milinfolive/93775
[43] https://****/marzoev_oleg/1628; https://****/marzoev_oleg/1629
[44] https://****/marzoev_oleg/1628; https://****/marzoev_oleg/1629
https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[46]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[47] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[48] https://****/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/20067
[49] https://****/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/20067
[50] https://****/Sladkov_plus/6730
[51] https://****/ctrs2018/16045; http://publication.pravo dot gov.ru/Document/View/0001202211250017?index=0&rangeSize=1
[52]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[53]https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid024KvKFDVZP4U1YaUrzN...
[54] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[55] https://****/bazabazon/14653; https://****/stranaua/77218

Tags​Ukraine Project
File Attachments: 



Kherson-Mykolaiv Battle Map Draft November 26,2022.png



Donetsk Battle Map Draft November 26,2022.png



Kharkiv Battle Map Draft November 26,2022.png



DraftUkraineCOTNOvember26,2022.png

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## Titanium100

Elvin said:


> Ukrainian has the ability to put 5mil men into uniform… they haven’t even scratched the surface of their reserves. Is Russia willing to mobilize another 2-3 mil men for Ukraine?



I think Russia has mobilized atleast 2mil men in this round and I never believed in the 200.000 not even for once.. It was all for the media and also I believe Ukraine has already close to 5m active in military, paramilitary, police forces and volunteers


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> Surely any worthy Russian General would have planned for this? They should have had 1 million soldiers ready before they engaged NATO and another million under training. Can't believe Russian army would be that incompetent unless they had a short threshold for nukes. It seems NATO and Putin are happy to sacrifice millions of lives for a purpose which appears very suspect.


NATO is not sacrificing anything or anyone. 
Countries, both NATO and non-NATO members are giving help to Ukraine to preserve their sovereignity, This is not suspect at all.

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> NATO is not sacrificing anything or anyone.
> Countries, both NATO and non-NATO members are giving help to Ukraine to preserve their sovereignity, This is not suspect at all.


NATO are sacrificing Ukrainian lives, they can easily force the Ukrainians to negotiate a truce and settlement. There are many land disputes all around the globe, why the selective support for Ukraine?

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> NATO are sacrificing Ukrainian lives, they can easily force the Ukrainians to negotiate a truce and settlement. There are many land disputes all around the globe, why the selective support for Ukraine?


It is not NATOs business to force Ukraine to give up its sovereignity.
Ukraine makes all the decisions, and it is Russia which is to be blamed 100% for all lives lost on both sides. You, trying to shift blame, is disgusting.
This thread is about Ukraine, not about other disputes.

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is not NATOs business to force Ukraine to give up its sovereignity.
> Ukraine makes all the decisions, and it is Russia which is to be blamed 100% for all lives lost on both sides. You, trying to shift blame, is disgusting.
> This thread is about Ukraine, not about other disputes.


Many agree with Denazification of Ukraine and the need to de-nazify some other parts of Europe. Whenever and wherever the disgusting Nazis rise up they should be crushed.

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## That Guy

Titanium100 said:


> Will the Ukrainians pull back from Bakhmut


I doubt it. The Russisns haven't made any significant advances, and are slso suffering heavy loses.


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Russians run amok. running out of conventional missiles they now use nuclear missiles without nuclear war heads to terror bomb Ukraine cities, as per British intel report.
> 
> I hope they don’t nuke themselves by mistake.
> 
> Where is China?
> 
> Can Chinese stop this madness?


They aren't using those missiles to attack city, the way nuclear missile was made means they can't really put a regular warhead in it (It's a different way to detonate a nuclear core and a traditional warhead). It have absolutely no value on ground attack..

They are doing this to act like a decoy, so the Ukrainian AA would go chase that instead of an actual cruise missile. It is used to spoof the Ukrainian air defence.


----------



## jhungary

That Guy said:


> I doubt it. The Russisns haven't made any significant advances, and are slso suffering heavy loses.


Nah, the Ukrainian is toying with the Russian in Bakhmut, they could have pour men and sweep thru their line now that they took Kherson, but seems like they are just going to keep rotating the unit there so they have more time to take Svatove. Or may even open up a third front.

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## TopGun786

Yes, they know. That day even not a tree or stone will hide or save them.


thetutle said:


> Who can you use it against? Saudi Arabia? please. There is no state army in the Middle East that can challenge you. So who is all this military for? Until the emergence of some islamic superpower, this military strength can only be used against non state actors. Which tells you a lot about the non state actors.


It's just a matter of time. Soon they will see. It is written, and they already know it, but it's in their blood to pretend to not know.


----------



## Viet

Wow that’s a massive explosion, few days ago this pipeline in Russia blowing up. Did someone smoke and caused the explosion by mistake?
Not that Putin freezes in winter because lack of gas.


----------



## Vergennes

That Guy said:


> I doubt it. The Russisns haven't made any significant advances, and are slso suffering heavy loses.



Russians are struggling to take that road intersection east of Bakhmut for months and some here believe the Ukrainians will pull out.... 

The defense of Bakhmut as many other cities will truly go down in history. 

Ukrainian soldiers there are holding large number of russian forces/wagnerites/LNR-DNR cannon fodders and tiktok chechens so the Ukrainian army can reinforce and attack on other fronts.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Balkanize Russia

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596814618072317952

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Viet

jhungary said:


> They aren't using those missiles to attack city, the way nuclear missile was made means they can't really put a regular warhead in it (It's a different way to detonate a nuclear core and a traditional warhead). It have absolutely no value on ground attack..
> 
> They are doing this to act like a decoy, so the Ukrainian AA would go chase that instead of an actual cruise missile. It is used to spoof the Ukrainian air defence.


Just curious why they fire such expensive missiles? Those are not cheap, they cost millions USD, just as decoy? I mean, those are planned to attack NATO countries.

What Putin will do if all strategic missiles are used? He is naked. all blabbing talks of NATO potential attacks on Russia is just cheap russian propaganda.


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Just curious why they fire such expensive missiles? Those are not cheap, they cost millions USD, just as decoy? I mean, those are planned to attack NATO countries.
> 
> What Putin will do if all strategic missiles are used? He is naked. all blabbing talks of NATO potential attacks on Russia is just cheap russian propaganda.


Putin have no choice. 

You need to display similar signature to be able to fool advanced air defence system, because nowadays these Anti-Air system have computerised target priority function, they recognize the missile and prioritise their target according to the urgency. Kh-55 have a similar profile to Kh-101, which mean they are going to be prioritised quite high on the queue, which mean the missile system and its operator will likely target these duds rather than another missile/projectile they have launched. 

It shows us two things really, 1.) Russia is actively trying to fool Ukrainian Air Defence, which mean they think not enough of their missile is hitting their target, and 2.) they are quite desperate because we also do spoofing, but we don't use actual missile, we send out decoy that emit the same RF signature than tomahawk or whatever we launch and use them to lure the enemy defence, we don't hollow out nuclear tip missile for this...


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Putin have no choice.
> 
> You need to display similar signature to be able to fool advanced air defence system, because nowadays these Anti-Air system have computerised target priority function, they recognize the missile and prioritise their target according to the urgency. Kh-55 have a similar profile to Kh-101, which mean they are going to be prioritised quite high on the queue, which mean the missile system and its operator will likely target these duds rather than another missile/projectile they have launched.
> 
> It shows us two things really, 1.) Russia is actively trying to fool Ukrainian Air Defence, which mean they think not enough of their missile is hitting their target, and 2.) they are quite desperate because we also do spoofing, but we don't use actual missile, we send out decoy that emit the same RF signature than tomahawk or whatever we launch and use them to lure the enemy defence, we don't hollow out nuclear tip missile for this...


Ukraine needs more air defense, that’s it. The russians fire 80 to 100 missiles per day. Then they pause they wait Ukraine fix the damage then they fire again. Military worthless, Putin and his paid hooligans just want to terrorize population. they target Ukraine civil infra, they target energy grid.


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597218422106251265




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597231791496396802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597194593287577600

Reactions: Love Love:
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## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596930597737594880
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596933929566892032


250 losses in one day seems to be newsworthy. So can we assume they usually lose a lot less per day. maybe 100. so in one year the casualties would be 36,000. Not great, but not terrible.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Belarus minister who acted as secret go-between with the West 'WAS killed by Kremlin assassins​








Belarus minister 'WAS killed by Kremlin assassins', reports claim


The veteran diplomat died suddenly yesterday amid claims he was in secret contact with the West concerning the war in Ukraine and preventing Putin from exercising control over Belarus




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Looks like Belarus is having second thoughts about its involvement and the future direction of the war.... 

More and more - Putin is becoming isolated in this war it seems.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597159803884695552


Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596922971238858753




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597164051699683328


----------



## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> You just cope hard because the Jews are more successful than you will ever be.


Jews are more successful than I will ever be? 20 million jews have more success than me alone? You are a true genius. How long did it take you to figure that out. 

In fact I have never even seen a jewish person that has less money than me. The poorest jewish person I've ever met has $5 million. This is a blessing for you as well as a curse.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597220615043194880


----------



## thetutle

khansaheeb said:


> NATO are sacrificing Ukrainian lives, they can easily force the Ukrainians to negotiate a truce and settlement. There are many land disputes all around the globe, why the selective support for Ukraine?


Russia is not offering nay deals.



khansaheeb said:


> Many agree with Denazification of Ukraine and the need to de-nazify some other parts of Europe. Whenever and wherever the disgusting Nazis rise up they should be crushed.


Why do you say that? have they done something bad to you lately? Have you ever seen a nazi? where did you see them?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597214984890900481

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> Many agree with Denazification of Ukraine and the need to de-nazify some other parts of Europe. Whenever and wherever the disgusting Nazis rise up they should be crushed.


There is a lot of war criminals that claim they are denazifying Ukraine as a cover up for their atrocities.
Nazism in Europe is handled in European courts, which is the appropriate place.

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## thetutle

TopGun786 said:


> Yes, they know. That day even not a tree or stone will hide or save them.
> 
> It's just a matter of time. Soon they will see. It is written, and they already know it, but it's in their blood to pretend to not know.


It is documented in the Hadith. As you have pointed out.

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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> Jews are more successful than I will ever be? 20 million jews have more success than me alone? You are a true genius. How long did it take you to figure that out.
> 
> In fact I have never even seen a jewish person that has less money than me. The poorest jewish person I've ever met has $5 million. This is a blessing for you as well as a curse.


By you I mean your people and the people you support. Obviously Jews are more successful than you personally.


----------



## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> There is a lot of war criminals that claim they are denazifying Ukraine as a cover up for their atrocities.
> Nazism in Europe is handled in European courts, which is the appropriate place.


Just like in WW1 and WW2?


----------



## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> By you I mean your people and the people you support. Obviously Jews are more successful than you personally.


Well yes, Jews are more successful than Bosnians. Bravo! Again, I'd have to agree with you on this. Just have a look at all your Nobel prizes and contributions to humanity over the thousands of years. What have Bosnians done? well, we have a one stringed instrument and lots of strong alcoholic drinks, and It's likely we haven't invented anything. So yeah, you win. 

But it depends on how you measure success. We are better looking, we have better women (they are just not as smart), we have a more beautiful country. We have a country in Europe, which you were never able to get. You on the other hand with all your success and power were politely asked to leave europe and settle in a sandy patch of desert in the middle east. You swapped Vienna and Mainz for sand in the Middle East. Your country is smaller than Armenia. I have a river on my property in Bosnia thats larger than the Jordan river. 

Anyway we must get back to ukraine. This is why we are here. I think its admirable that so many jewish and Israeli people are supporting Ukraine and its territorial integrity. Its also admirable how you supported Azerbaijan. 

Maybe you can tell us if the Russian jews in Israel support russia or Ukraine? or is it very individual and they no loyalty one way or the other?


----------



## sammuel

khansaheeb said:


> Just like in WW1 and WW2?


'

What is like WW1 and WW2 here , is that this war is taking place in the same blood drenches earth of the same fields of battle in Europe.

One would have thought that humanity would have learned the lesson ; and that such wars would be a thing only learned in history lessons. Specially in Europe where they really have no need to fight. Is Europe short of resources ? Short of things that Unite and all nations ? Ukraine's and Russians where actually brothers before the war.

But obviously some have not learned that lesson

In particular one person , who bares the responsibility for this war , and his nation who protested so little against this war.

~


----------



## The SC

thetutle said:


> 250 losses in one day seems to be newsworthy. So can we assume they usually lose a lot less per day. maybe 100. so in one year the casualties would be 36,000. Not great, but not terrible.


This is only in the Bakhmut area!


----------



## thetutle

sammuel said:


> One would have thought that humanity would have learned the lesson ; and that such wars would be a thing only learned in history lessons. Specially in Europe where they really have no need to fight. Is Europe short of resources ? Short of things that Unite and all nations ? Ukraine's and Russians are where actually brothers before the war.
> 
> Nut obviously some have not learned that lesson
> 
> In particular one person , who bares the responsibility for this war , and his nation who protested so little against this war.


Its laughable isn't it, the biggest country in the world is fighting the second biggest country in europe to be even bigger. Both have unlimited natural resources, water, food and anything at all. Ethnically there is no more similar people than they are to each other. its just disgraceful.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596759595372130307

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596759595372130307


And yet, Russia is still losing the war 🙃🙃🙃

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> Its laughable isn't it, the biggest country in the world is fighting the second biggest country in europe to be even bigger. Both have unlimited natural resources, water, food and anything at all. Ethnically there is no more similar people than they are to each other. its just disgraceful.


Simply put: Putin is a thief. Ukraine has resources that he wants to steal. The Donbas is the industrial heart of Ukraine, that is not surprising he wants to steal it as first goal. Interesting enough, there is zero opposition in Russia. Putin and his gang are free to rape, steal, loot, kill, destroy.

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## Reashot Xigwin

I swear Russia is more closer to African countries than Europe. 

Heck some African countries are more humane than this. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596596487831851008

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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> But it depends on how you measure success. We are better looking, we have better women (they are just not as smart), we have a more beautiful country. We have a country in Europe, which you were never able to get. You on the other hand with all your success and power were politely asked to leave europe and settle in a sandy patch of desert in the middle east. You swapped Vienna and Mainz for sand in the Middle East. Your country is smaller than Armenia. I have a river on my property in Bosnia thats larger than the Jordan river.
> 
> Anyway we must get back to ukraine. This is why we are here. I think its admirable that so many jewish and Israeli people are supporting Ukraine and its territorial integrity. Its also admirable how you supported Azerbaijan.
> 
> Maybe you can tell us if the Russian jews in Israel support russia or Ukraine? or is it very individual and they no loyalty one way or the other?


Better looking? You probably live under the false assumption Jews are some inbred rats. Jews look better than you are. Especially Jewish women. Beautiful country is subjective, we have deserts in the south, green forests and snow in the north, recently found a lot of gas in the sea (which you don't even have because Croatia cucked you) 
You guys in Bosnia are either mafia bosses or some side characters from Borat.

We never wanted a country in Europe. We preferr all of it 
What's up with with you and Armenia? you're obsessed with it.

Russian Jews mostly support Ukraine. Russians (non Jews) in Israel mostly support Russia. Ukrainian Jews support Ukraine. Most young ethnic-Russians and Ukrainians don't view themselves as such but as Israelis and hold no real loyalty to either side.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Another day another clown moment. What is it with Russian and delusion of grandeur anyway? 






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597005533760073729

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Reashot Xigwin

If you want more proof that Putin has completely lost it 🤣

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597053416752447489


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Ukraine needs more air defense, that’s it. The russians fire 80 to 100 missiles per day. Then they pause they wait Ukraine fix the damage then they fire again. Military worthless, Putin and his paid hooligans just want to terrorize population. they target Ukraine civil infra, they target energy grid.


They will do it be keep doing it because that is the only way they can do at the moment. Yes Ukraine needed more, much more Anti-Air Defence (there are less than 10 set of Advance Western SAM in the entire country, you need at least triple or even quadruple that) otherwise it will be as Zelenskyy said, as long as Russia have missile, they won't stop.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597210121532108800
Pentagon considering sending 150km ground launched SDBs

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597210121532108800
> Pentagon considering sending 150km ground launched SDBs











Exclusive: U.S. weighs sending 100-mile strike weapon to Ukraine


The Pentagon is considering a Boeing proposal to supply Ukraine with cheap, small precision bombs fitted onto abundantly available rockets, allowing Kyiv to strike far behind Russian lines as the West struggles to meet demand for more arms.




www.reuters.com


----------



## 925boy

khansaheeb said:


> There are many land disputes all around the globe, why the selective support for Ukraine?


Selective support because Ukraine presents the MOST SELECTIVE opportunity for NATO to strategically position itself on and at Russia's borders, in a region of the world that Russia is vulnerable (Black sea).

Ukraine will be unrecognizable when this war is over.


----------



## The SC

Interesting updates


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> Just like in WW1 and WW2?


Nazism started after WW1.
After WW2, Nazism was on trial at Nürnberg.
After that, it is no more than a fringe movement, attracting the same kind of losers as the Islamofascist movements like ISIS.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> NATO are sacrificing Ukrainian lives, they can easily force the Ukrainians to negotiate a truce and settlement. There are many land disputes all around the globe, why the selective support for Ukraine?


So you are literally arguing whether or not Ukraine is an independent country?? There are literally nothing to be disputed.

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## 925boy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is not NATOs business to force Ukraine to give up its sovereignity.


Is this a Freudian slip were you;re admitting that NATO has HIJACKED Ukraine's sovereignty effectively? i agree NATO has hijacked Ukraine in some ways.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Ukraine makes all the decisions,


after its govt has been hijacked or/and taken hostage by NATO?


A.P. Richelieu said:


> and it is Russia which is to be blamed 100% for all lives lost on both sides.


what a naive comment- for one, more than half of the world doesnt believe this and that was proven via the UN vote on Ukraine -stop being so emotional.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> You, trying to shift blame, is disgusting.


projecting again? cuz this is what NATO is doing- shifting blame for instigating the conflict - even the Pope had to censure NATO for "bringing NATO to Russia's doorsteps"..."dont start no sht there wouldnt be no what???"



That Guy said:


> The Russisns haven't made any significant advances,


They've made some, and Ukrainians have made NONE since Kherson, and Ukraine is the side that needs to make progress- RUssia can keep fortifying occupied areas in the meantime and stall- time is on Russia's side, period.


That Guy said:


> and are slso suffering heavy loses.


sure, war is deadly business, but losses dont matter ultimately- end result does, and the jury is still out- its currently "game" time , so hopefully a no-electricity having Ukraine is ready for winter...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597347228129296385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597332798360076289

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597362634088927232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597199126361362432

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Sad Sad:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597362634088927232
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597199126361362432








Yeeesh... Can't even make fun of this. Leave it to the Russians to somehow manages to took out the fun of mocking the dead.



925boy said:


> Is this a Freudian slip were you;re admitting that NATO has HIJACKED Ukraine's sovereignty effectively? i agree NATO has hijacked Ukraine in some ways.
> 
> after its govt has been hijacked or/and taken hostage by NATO?
> 
> what a naive comment- for one, more than half of the world doesnt believe this and that was proven via the UN vote on Ukraine -stop being so emotional.
> 
> projecting again? cuz this is what NATO is doing- shifting blame for instigating the conflict - even the Pope had to censure NATO for "bringing NATO to Russia's doorsteps"..."dont start no sht there wouldnt be no what???"
> 
> 
> They've made some, and Ukrainians have made NONE since Kherson, and Ukraine is the side that needs to make progress- RUssia can keep fortifying occupied areas in the meantime and stall- time is on Russia's side, period.
> 
> sure, war is deadly business, but losses dont matter ultimately- end result does, and the jury is still out- its currently "game" time , so hopefully a no-electricity having Ukraine is ready for winter...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597347065163812865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597302441305079808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597283147552804864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597288525711388673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597297318721568768

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> So you are literally arguing whether or not Ukraine is an independent country?? There are literally nothing to be disputed.


Well if China came along and funded independence of Texas and the Texans start killing Americans then what would your position be?

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## Beny Karachun

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Another day another clown moment. What is it with Russian and delusion of grandeur anyway?
> View attachment 901188
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597005533760073729


Does he have schizophrenia?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597354777704210432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597328142989156352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597282643196153862

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597361867663765505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597371038563995648

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## Beny Karachun

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597362634088927232
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597199126361362432


Damn imagine someone with a set of towels closing into your home


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Well if China came along and funded independence of Texas and the Texans start killing Americans then what would your position be?


How about China funding Malaysian Chinese to succeed from Malaysia? How about China funding the Chinese in New York Chinatown and succeed from the US??

Texas is PART OF US. It doesn't matter who fund what, it's United States internal affair, they can use National Guard if they have to. The Federal Government have legal right over ALL American within its sovereign border, it does not just mean American who speak English or Spanish. 

If you think those Ukrainian who speak "Russian" equate to being "Russian" then you have a serious problem on understanding sovereignty. Ukrainian Government have the right to imprison/kill ANYONE that is within its own border as that is within its jurisdiction. Just because you speak a different language does not mean shit.

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> Well if China came along and funded independence of Texas and the Texans start killing Americans then what would your position be?


Texas is not an independent country.
Ukraine has been an independent republic since the Russian Revolution, which choose to be part of the Soviet Union, and then choose to separate themselves. The Russian Empire died in the Russian Revolution, as the Soviet Union claimed that it and all its constituents were new entities which would not accept the debts of Russia. The Russian Federation is legally not an inheritor of the Russian Empire. It just happens to have the same name trying to fool morons.

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Texas is not an independent country.
> Ukraine has been an independent republic since the Russian Revolution, which choose to be part of the Soviet Union, and then choose to separate themselves. The Russian Empire died in the Russian Revolution, as the Soviet Union claimed that it and all its constituents were new entities which would not accept the debts of Russia. The Russian Federation is legally not an inheritor of the Russian Empire. It just happens to have the same name trying to fool morons.


The Native Americans would disagree with you:-

Adai people, formerly eastern Texas[7]
Apache people, western Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma

Lipan Apache,[8] southwest
Salinero, formerly west[9]
Teya, formerly Panhandle[10]
Vaquero, also Querecho, formerly northwestern Texas, possible ancestral Apache people[11]
Aranama,[12] formerly southeast
Atakapa, formerly Gulf Coast[13]
Akokisa, formerly Galveston Bay, Gulf Coast[13]
Bidai, formerly Trinity River, Gulf Coast[13]
Deadose, formerly southeast[14]
Patiri, formerly San Jacinto River[13]
Biloxi, formerly Neches River in the 19th century,[15] now Louisiana



Flag of the Caddo Nation of Oklahoma

Caddo, formerly eastern Texas, now Oklahoma[16]
Cacachau, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
Eyeish, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
Hainai, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma
Kadohadacho, formerly northeast, now Oklahoma[16]
Nabedache, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
Nabiti, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
Nacogdoche, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
Nacono, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
Nadaco, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
Nanatsoho, formerly Red River, now Oklahoma[16]
Nasoni (Upper), formerly Red River, now Oklahoma[16]
Natchitoches, formerly Red River, now Oklahoma[16]
Nechaui, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
Neche, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]



Flag of the Comanche Nation

Comanche, formerly north and west,[8] now Oklahoma
Coahuiltecan, formerly southern
Comecrudo, formerly southern[17]
Ervipiame, formerly south and central Texas[18]
Geier, formerly south central[19]
Pajalat, formerly central[20]
Pastia, formerly south-central[21]
Payaya, formerly south-central[22]
Quepano, formerly south-central[23]
Unpuncliegut, formerly south coast[24]
Xarame, formerly south-central[25]
Dotchetonne, formerly northeastern[26]
Escanjaque Indians, formerly north-central[27]
Jumano, formerly southwestern[28]
La Junta, formerly west
Karankawa, formerly south coast[29]
Kiowa, formerly panhandle,[8] now Oklahoma
Manso, formerly west[30]
Quems, formerly southwest[31]
Quicuchabe, formerly west[32]
Quide, formerly west[33]
Suma, formerly west, joined Apaches[34]
Teyas, Panhandle[35]



Flag of the Wichita and Affiliated Tribes

Tonkawa, formerly southeast,[8] now Oklahoma
Mayeye, formerly south[36]
Yojuane, formerly east-central[37]
Wichita, formerly north-central,[8] now Oklahoma
Kichai, formerly north, now Oklahoma[38]
Taovaya, formerly north in the 19th century, now Oklahoma[39]
Tawakoni, formerly north and east in the 19th century, now Oklahoma[40]
Waco, formerly north, now Oklahoma[41]

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> How about China funding Malaysian Chinese to succeed from Malaysia? How about China funding the Chinese in New York Chinatown and succeed from the US??
> 
> Texas is PART OF US. It doesn't matter who fund what, it's United States internal affair, they can use National Guard if they have to. The Federal Government have legal right over ALL American within its sovereign border, it does not just mean American who speak English or Spanish.
> 
> If you think those Ukrainian who speak "Russian" equate to being "Russian" then you have a serious problem on understanding sovereignty. Ukrainian Government have the right to imprison/kill ANYONE that is within its own border as that is within its jurisdiction. Just because you speak a different language does not mean shit.


It's not simple as you make it out to be as many countries can lay claim to Ukraine:-"the area was contested, divided, and ruled by a variety of external powers for the next 600 years, including the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Austrian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, and the Tsardom of Russia. The Cossack Hetmanate emerged in central Ukraine in the 17th century, but was partitioned between Russia and Poland, and ultimately absorbed by the Russian Empire. After the Russian Revolution, a Ukrainian national movement re-emerged, and formed the Ukrainian People's Republic in 1917. This short-lived state was forcibly reconstituted by the Bolsheviks into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, which became a founding member of the Soviet Union in 1922. "









Ukraine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> It's not simple as you make it out to be as may countries can lay claim to Ukraine:-"the area was contested, divided, and ruled by a variety of external powers for the next 600 years, including the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Austrian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, and the Tsardom of Russia. The Cossack Hetmanate emerged in central Ukraine in the 17th century, but was partitioned between Russia and Poland, and ultimately absorbed by the Russian Empire. After the Russian Revolution, a Ukrainian national movement re-emerged, and formed the Ukrainian People's Republic in 1917. This short-lived state was forcibly reconstituted by the Bolsheviks into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, which became a founding member of the Soviet Union in 1922. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Are you for real??

How about China going back to Mongol since Genkis Khan conquer China back in 12 century? How about Finland going back to the Russian Empire since it was ceded by the Swede to Tsar I back in early 18 century? How about Canada going back to France since French colonised QUebec and much of Canada? in the 17th century?? How about Alaska going back to Russia since it was purchased by the America in Alaskan Purchase?

If we go by what "Historical" belong to, then most of the world belong to the 3 nations, The British Empire, The Spanish and The Russian. Just because it was part of something does not mean it is still "Disputed" International Law existed for a reason.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Beny Karachun said:


> Does he have schizophrenia?



There are Russians that thinks they are entitled to other people's territory because of history or what not.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

It looks like even in Poland, the casualties of the war in Ukraine is piling up. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597263273568542722
"The number of wounded is probably three times the number of dead, though that can vary depending on the war's circumstance. It means that in total some 4800 men of the Polish contingent in Ukraine were wounded or killed. Is that one third of the Polish 'mercenary' forces in Ukraine? Is it more? Or less?

We don't know but I expect that quite a lot of regular soldiers of the 16th Pomeranian Mechanised Division in Olsztyn have been 'asked' to take part in the war. The division consists of one armored and two mechanized brigades plus the usual auxiliaries which makes it a 15,000 men strong unit.

The style of Polish graveyards is typical for a Catholic European country. Trees, individual graves, elaborate tombstones, candles and flowers.






source - bigger
It is understandable that people in Poland do not like the plans for an 'American' style military graveyard:



> The authorities prepared "special honors" for them. Uniform quarters are being built in Olsztyn: There are to be two slab sizes. Larger (meter by meter) are graves for officers, smaller ones (60 cm by 60 cm) are quarters for soldiers. It will not be possible to cover the tombstone with cubes, or to sprinkle pebbles and plant flowers. Only grass is to be spread around the graves. Such an inglorious end awaits the mercenaries who died in Ukraine.
> There will be 1,700 of such burial places only in Olsztyn. Therefore, many Poles who believed in the false promises of government propaganda will be victims of the provocative international policy of the PiS regime.


With plans for 1,700 dead Polish soldiers, beyond those 1,200 already buried, the Polish government seems to expect its soldiers to take part in an even more intensified and longer war."

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Beny Karachun said:


> Damn imagine someone with a set of towels closing into your home




It seems dehumanizing Russians is the new motto in the West including Israel. A man carrying with 3 towels was pictured, and they started mocking how Russians send condolences to each other. This is how low they can go.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems dehumanizing Russians is the new motto in the West including Israel. A man carrying with 3 towels was pictured, and they started mocking how Russians send condolences to each other. This is how low they can go.


This is straight up what Russians higher up are doing now. Turning people into animal. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597494821890842624


----------



## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Are you for real??
> 
> How about China going back to Mongol since Genkis Khan conquer China back in 12 century? How about Finland going back to the Russian Empire since it was ceded by the Swede to Tsar I back in early 18 century? How about Canada going back to France since French colonised QUebec and much of Canada? in the 17th century?? How about Alaska going back to Russia since it was purchased by the America in Alaskan Purchase?
> 
> If we go by what "Historical" belong to, then most of the world belong to the 3 nations, The British Empire, The Spanish and The Russian. Just because it was part of something does not mean it is still "Disputed" International Law existed for a reason.


That is exactly what Russia is saying.


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> That is exactly what Russia is saying.


That's why it's illegal...........

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems dehumanizing Russians is the new motto in the West including Israel. A man carrying with 3 towels was pictured, and they started mocking how Russians send condolences to each other. This is how low they can go.



Well, the "west" did not give the full story as with the towels, mothers of these soldiers were also given a cake.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597144261962698752

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> Well, the "west" did not give the full story as with the towels, mothers of these soldiers were also given a cake.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597144261962698752


Only towels? No washing machine?

Life is cheap.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The Russian switch from modern BTG to the tried and true human wave tactics. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597503712158941184

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597571466127892482

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems dehumanizing Russians is the new motto in the West including Israel. A man carrying with 3 towels was pictured, and they started mocking how Russians send condolences to each other. This is how low they can go.



One hand we have russians portraying ukranians as nazis and satanists. Or simply denying their existance. 

On other side we have west satirically commenting on how poorly russia treats its own dead.

Mmmyeaaahhh….how low indeed…

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Well, the "west" did not give the full story as with the towels, mothers of these soldiers were also given a cake.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597144261962698752




Some societies have a culture that if you're visiting a friend or a distant relative who lost a loved one, you should take something with you. This is a way of alleviating pressure from the people who are mourning from the loss or in other way a burden sharing. And we all know when people lost a loved one, they tend to get more visitors.

To give you an example, I a lost cat during the summer - indeed a good companion. A woman in my neighborhood brought me a beautiful flower. It was her way of expressing how much she valued us as neighbors and how much she was sorry for our loss. Are people gonna mock her if they find out she brought us a flower?

Bottom line, it is really disgraceful for the Western and Ukrainian propagandists mocking how Russian people express their condolences to one another. It explains the debt they would go to make fun of Russian losses, and it is clear proof that the West is at war with Russia. Propaganda is big part of the war and it shows that the Western propagandists have no limits.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine will join the NATO.
Russia has no veto right.










NATO commits to future Ukraine membership, seeks more aid


All the updates from November 29, Tuesday, as they happened.




www.aljazeera.com

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Ukraine will join the NATO.
> Russia has no veto right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO commits to future Ukraine membership, seeks more aid
> 
> 
> All the updates from November 29, Tuesday, as they happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com



which means we are commiting to getting russia out of crimea aswell so that ukraine has no remaining land disputes(precondition of member ship). Good.

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## That Guy

It is now the year 2025, Russian counter offensive to try and take Moscow from Ukrainian forces end up in failure. Russia claims they're winning the special military operation.

Putin remains master strategist.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597608414951378944

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597608414951378944



Amazing to look at this video knowing in a matter of minutes many Russian occupiers will get himarsed.

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> which means we are commiting to getting russia out of crimea aswell so that ukraine has no remaining land disputes(precondition of member ship). Good.


The russians dump their future for a stupid idea. Russia is a giant in landmass and resources. Why they need to steal more lands and resources? They have people, they have technology. They can be rich like the sheiks in Qatar. They don’t need to work a day. Money rains from the sky. Instead of making life better they waste off their lives and others people time. Just dumb.

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## thetutle

Shawnee said:


> Information about a new fab production unit is released in Iran. Images are faded out for security.
> 
> These units can produce chips for Shahed domestically when needed.
> See Shahed 129 FLIR in the movie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595646782213586946
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595647979335065601
> See the wafer here
> 
> @BHAN85
> @1ndy
> 
> 
> A hundred more fab companies available on the list that I sent before.


If I was Iran I would not be using western monitors for this sort of production. That would be a big mistake. 


Viet said:


> Simply put: Putin is a thief. Ukraine has resources that he wants to steal. The Donbas is the industrial heart of Ukraine, that is not surprising he wants to steal it as first goal. Interesting enough, there is zero opposition in Russia. Putin and his gang are free to rape, steal, loot, kill, destroy.


He's an empire builder and Russians see him as such. I think they mostly support him and his actions. All empires do this sort of stuff. We just have to make sure we dont become victims of it. 


Beny Karachun said:


> Better looking? You probably live under the false assumption Jews are some inbred rats.


No I don't. Jews a fine people. Its just the thousands that I've met dont look very good or are not my type. For most part they look like ben stiller and Adam Sandler, and that face annoys the heck out of me. 


Beny Karachun said:


> Jews look better than you are. Especially Jewish women.


lol, no. definitely not. Mila Kunis is kinda cute but in ukraine she would be a 3/10. In Bosnia she would be a 5/10. In Israel she would be a supermodel. I suppose there are many good looking half jewish actresses, like johanssen and Paltrow, but they are superstars, Women like that in Eastern Europe work at McDonalds. Just ask zelensky why he married a hot ethnic ukranian woman. 


Beny Karachun said:


> Beautiful country is subjective, we have deserts in the south, green forests and snow in the north, recently found a lot of gas in the sea (which you don't even have because Croatia cucked you)


You found lots of gas? The irony of it. I wont make a joke out of that. I'm too sensitive to peoples feelings. Croatia didnt cuck us. They cucked Italy and Venice, Hungary and Austria. Half of Croatia has Bosnian ancestry. We are very closely related people. We would rather they control the sea than Italians. Some Bosnian kings controlled some of that sea maybe 700 years ago, but back then, its was not so clear who was Croatian who was Bosnian. In the future under the EU empire, there will be no border between us anyway.


Beny Karachun said:


> We never wanted a country in Europe. We preferr all of it


Yeah, you wanted, but it was not attainable. Noone would swap Vienna for Negev if they had choice. Krakow or Lodz for some impoverished Palestinian village.


Beny Karachun said:


> Russian Jews mostly support Ukraine. Russians (non Jews) in Israel mostly support Russia. Ukrainian Jews support Ukraine. Most young ethnic-Russians and Ukrainians don't view themselves as such but as Israelis and hold no real loyalty to either side.


Interesting. Thank you. I noticed a slight uptick of antisemitism from ethnic Russians recently. That might be one of the reasons. But nothing compared to the massive uptick in their anti ukraniansim. Russians always saw the other slavs as a bit backward and unsophisticated. And they are right. But now its a much more pronounced feeling. 

Russians are also much more fond of islamic countries and people lately. I guess they are looking for alternatives now that europe has shut the door on them. I mean Poland and Czech and some other countries dont even issue visas to them. Russians are not ok with this. they do take it personally.


----------



## thetutle

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Another day another clown moment. What is it with Russian and delusion of grandeur anyway?
> View attachment 901188
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597005533760073729


This idiot wants to claim Balkans as part of russia. lol. ok, once he conquers 40 million ukranains and 30 million Romanians. Then he will fight Orthodox Bulgarains and Serbs, What a strategy. 

It should be noted that the biggest lovers of Putin and Russia in Europe, Serbia, would never allow Russians to enter their country. That tells you all you need to know.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Misha Firer


Brutalsky Son of Quora.




www.quora.com





*How is the war affecting ordinary Russians?*






Russian president said to mothers of mobilised soldiers: “men live useless lives and die from vodka.”




“There’s no higher goal than to get killed in Ukraine while dispatching Ukies.”




“No greater valor than to die for motherland rather than from liver cirrhosis pooping tiny diamonds on a villa on Lake Como,” confessed propagandist Vladimir Adolphovich Soloviev.




“A man who died in Ukraine has not lived his life in vain.”




“I foresee the beginning of the collapse of the West in spring 2023,” psychic Svetlana Dragana on Channel One.




“We should reduce the world to smithereens not to face war tribunal in The Hague,” head of RT Margarita Simonyan.




“We are hitting infrastructure, and it will be destroyed. Ukraine will be sent to the 18th century,” Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Pyotr Tolstoy in an interview with French TV.




“Russia is a nuclear power, and you must understand that a nuclear power cannot lose a war. I am not threatening with nuclear weapons. West, better get ready, you will feel a lot of pain.”




“The next target after energy facilities should be banking infrastructure facilities. The goal is to sow chaos, leave Ukrainians without work, without livelihood.” General of the Russian Federation Andrey Gurulev.




That said,




Buckwheat is also very good.

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It looks like even in Poland, the casualties of the war in Ukraine is piling up. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597263273568542722
> "The number of wounded is probably three times the number of dead, though that can vary depending on the war's circumstance. It means that in total some 4800 men of the Polish contingent in Ukraine were wounded or killed. Is that one third of the Polish 'mercenary' forces in Ukraine? Is it more? Or less?
> 
> We don't know but I expect that quite a lot of regular soldiers of the 16th Pomeranian Mechanised Division in Olsztyn have been 'asked' to take part in the war. The division consists of one armored and two mechanized brigades plus the usual auxiliaries which makes it a 15,000 men strong unit.
> 
> The style of Polish graveyards is typical for a Catholic European country. Trees, individual graves, elaborate tombstones, candles and flowers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source - bigger
> It is understandable that people in Poland do not like the plans for an 'American' style military graveyard:
> 
> 
> With plans for 1,700 dead Polish soldiers, beyond those 1,200 already buried, the Polish government seems to expect its soldiers to take part in an even more intensified and longer war."


lots of bullshit again this is just a normal cementary in poland 

you can even read Bielaków Jozef 1926-2004  what means there would be no new greave near this guy becose normaly graves are a line of graves from same year

Like we care about our death familiy graves and it just past 1 novemeber when we clean our family graves and lighting candels






this picture is from my town during that time and we change old grave from time to time my great grandma had her tombstone replaced like 4 years ago

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## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> lots of bullshit again this is just a normal cementary in poland
> 
> you can even read Bielaków Jozef 1926-2004  what means there would be no new greave near this guy becose normaly graves are a line of graves from same year
> 
> Like we care about our death familiy graves and it just past 1 novemeber when we clean our family graves and lighting candels
> 
> View attachment 901475
> 
> 
> this picture is from my town during that time and we change old grave from time to time my great grandma had her tombstone replaced like 4 years ago



Funny how Russians are creating a narrative of "hordes of Polish mercenaries" when things go wrong on the field.

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> The Native Americans would disagree with you:-
> 
> Adai people, formerly eastern Texas[7]
> Apache people, western Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma
> Lipan Apache,[8] southwest
> Salinero, formerly west[9]
> Teya, formerly Panhandle[10]
> Vaquero, also Querecho, formerly northwestern Texas, possible ancestral Apache people[11]
> Aranama,[12] formerly southeast
> Atakapa, formerly Gulf Coast[13]
> Akokisa, formerly Galveston Bay, Gulf Coast[13]
> Bidai, formerly Trinity River, Gulf Coast[13]
> Deadose, formerly southeast[14]
> Patiri, formerly San Jacinto River[13]
> Biloxi, formerly Neches River in the 19th century,[15] now Louisiana
> 
> 
> 
> Flag of the Caddo Nation of Oklahoma
> 
> Caddo, formerly eastern Texas, now Oklahoma[16]
> Cacachau, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
> Eyeish, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
> Hainai, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma
> Kadohadacho, formerly northeast, now Oklahoma[16]
> Nabedache, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
> Nabiti, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
> Nacogdoche, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
> Nacono, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
> Nadaco, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
> Nanatsoho, formerly Red River, now Oklahoma[16]
> Nasoni (Upper), formerly Red River, now Oklahoma[16]
> Natchitoches, formerly Red River, now Oklahoma[16]
> Nechaui, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
> Neche, formerly eastern, now Oklahoma[16]
> 
> 
> 
> Flag of the Comanche Nation
> 
> Comanche, formerly north and west,[8] now Oklahoma
> Coahuiltecan, formerly southern
> Comecrudo, formerly southern[17]
> Ervipiame, formerly south and central Texas[18]
> Geier, formerly south central[19]
> Pajalat, formerly central[20]
> Pastia, formerly south-central[21]
> Payaya, formerly south-central[22]
> Quepano, formerly south-central[23]
> Unpuncliegut, formerly south coast[24]
> Xarame, formerly south-central[25]
> Dotchetonne, formerly northeastern[26]
> Escanjaque Indians, formerly north-central[27]
> Jumano, formerly southwestern[28]
> La Junta, formerly west
> Karankawa, formerly south coast[29]
> Kiowa, formerly panhandle,[8] now Oklahoma
> Manso, formerly west[30]
> Quems, formerly southwest[31]
> Quicuchabe, formerly west[32]
> Quide, formerly west[33]
> Suma, formerly west, joined Apaches[34]
> Teyas, Panhandle[35]
> 
> 
> 
> Flag of the Wichita and Affiliated Tribes
> 
> Tonkawa, formerly southeast,[8] now Oklahoma
> Mayeye, formerly south[36]
> Yojuane, formerly east-central[37]
> Wichita, formerly north-central,[8] now Oklahoma
> Kichai, formerly north, now Oklahoma[38]
> Taovaya, formerly north in the 19th century, now Oklahoma[39]
> Tawakoni, formerly north and east in the 19th century, now Oklahoma[40]
> Waco, formerly north, now Oklahoma[41]










khansaheeb said:


> It's not simple as you make it out to be as many countries can lay claim to Ukraine:-"the area was contested, divided, and ruled by a variety of external powers for the next 600 years, including the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Austrian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, and the Tsardom of Russia. The Cossack Hetmanate emerged in central Ukraine in the 17th century, but was partitioned between Russia and Poland, and ultimately absorbed by the Russian Empire. After the Russian Revolution, a Ukrainian national movement re-emerged, and formed the Ukrainian People's Republic in 1917. This short-lived state was forcibly reconstituted by the Bolsheviks into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, which became a founding member of the Soviet Union in 1922. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Europe, including Russia, in the Helsinki Accords agreed that all such historical claims are null and void.
Once you have given up a claim, you cannot go back.

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## Mujahid Memon

Viet said:


> The russians dump their future for a stupid idea. Russia is a giant in landmass and resources. Why they need to steal more lands and resources? They have people, they have technology. They can be rich like the sheiks in Qatar. They don’t need to work a day. Money rains from the sky. Instead of making life better they waste off their lives and others people time. Just dumb.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597623473140297728


----------



## Ali_Baba

Ukraine war: Nato pledges to provide more weapons and fix power grid


Millions of Ukrainians remain without power and water in freezing temperatures after Russian strikes.



www.bbc.co.uk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597639988530667520


bobo6661 said:


> lots of bullshit again this is just a normal cementary in poland
> 
> you can even read Bielaków Jozef 1926-2004  what means there would be no new greave near this guy becose normaly graves are a line of graves from same year
> 
> Like we care about our death familiy graves and it just past 1 novemeber when we clean our family graves and lighting candels
> 
> View attachment 901475
> 
> 
> this picture is from my town during that time and we change old grave from time to time my great grandma had her tombstone replaced like 4 years ago




I quoted a reputable site: Moon of Alabama. You can deny it but Polish casualties is in the thousands.

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## Soldier35

Britain handed over to Ukraine a batch of high-precision Brimstone-2 missiles, the footage of the loading of missiles was published by the Ministry of Defense of the Kingdom. We have already talked about the Brimstone rocket received by Russia earlier. Brimstone 2 is a modified and improved version of the original Brimstone rocket. When launched from the air, the missile has a range of up to 60 kilometers, when launched from the ground, the flight range is 12 kilometers. The missile's improved homing head, modular design and updated software improve its accuracy. When tested from the Tornado fighter, the missile hit the target 91% of the time. The approximate cost of the Brimstone rocket is $150,000.






The Belarusian army landed a Polish UAV 12 km from the border with Poland. This was reported by the Belarusian media. The drone was reportedly equipped with a thermal imager, a high-definition camera, and high-capacity batteries. The incident occurred during a visit by Polish President Andrzej Duda to the field camp of the 11th Masurian Artillery Regiment near the village of Nowa Luka in the Podlaskie Voivodeship. The drone filmed important infrastructure facilities of the republic, including military installations.






The Ukrainian army received American 105-mm M101 howitzers developed during the Second World War from Lithuania, video footage of their use is shown. Earlier, Lithuania received these howitzers from Denmark, the guns were repainted and transferred to Ukraine. The Howitzer M101 howitzer has been mass-produced since 1941 and turned out to be successful. The howitzer is still in service with the armies of many countries of the world. In some countries, howitzers were improved and produced under a different index. Howitzer crew 8 people, firing range - 11 thousand meters, rate of fire - 4-5 rounds per minute, weight - 2260 kg. The price of the howitzer is 57 thousand dollars.






The crew of the Russian MiG-31 aircraft spoke about combat missions in the areas of combat contact in Ukraine






The Ministry of Defense of Luxembourg stated that as part of the regular military assistance, 6 Primoco One 150 UAVs were transferred to the Ukrainian army. The UAVs were created by the Czech company Primoco UAV. The drone can automatically take off, land and follow the route. The One 150 UAV has a maximum takeoff weight of 150 kg, a flight time of up to 15 hours and is controlled at a distance of up to 200 km from a ground station. Having programmed the UAV to move along the route, the flight range reaches 2000 km. With a payload, and it is 30 kg, it is obvious that the UAV can be used as a kamikaze drone, programmed to fly along the route. The drone is equipped with infrared cameras and has a 50 hp single piston engine. Drone flight speed up to 150 km/h, time spent in the air up to 15 hours. UAV flight height up to 3300 meters. Wingspan: 4.9 m.


----------



## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597639988530667520
> 
> 
> 
> I quoted a reputable site: Moon of Alabama. You can deny it but Polish casualties is in the thousands.


It's probably WILL BE in the thousand if they started dying since 2004......

And Moon of Alabama is no where near "Reputable"


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597639988530667520
> 
> 
> 
> I quoted a reputable site: Moon of Alabama. You can deny it but Polish casualties is in the thousands.


in milions

no idea what is Moon of Alabama but for me sounds like a sect, they don't show any evidence in that anyway ... 

i live in poland and im telling you that's how a normal graveyard lookes like in this season ... new tombstones mix with old are a normal thing in poland

and this is how a new grave would look like :





"he authorities prepared "special honors" for them. Uniform quarters are being built in Olsztyn: There are to be two slab sizes. Larger (meter by meter) are graves for officers, smaller ones (60 cm by 60 cm) are quarters for soldiers. It will not be possible to cover the tombstone with cubes, or to sprinkle pebbles and plant flowers. Only grass is to be spread around the graves. Such an inglorious end awaits the mercenaries who died in Ukraine."

and this is a total bullshit the double size means its for a husband and wife  i live near olsztyn man i fk know what im saying.

best part of that article is source of picture :





2013...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597531222607298561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597655606063767552

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## The SC

The whole front is lit!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597569791518466049


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597316820989792256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597582985997717506


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597242923388932096

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## Reashot Xigwin

thetutle said:


> This idiot wants to claim Balkans as part of russia. lol. ok, once he conquers 40 million ukranains and 30 million Romanians. Then he will fight Orthodox Bulgarains and Serbs, What a strategy.
> 
> It should be noted that the biggest lovers of Putin and Russia in Europe, Serbia, would never allow Russians to enter their country. That tells you all you need to know.



A lot of brain dead serbs simps for Russia for some reason. Is it cultural or something else because I'm not from the Balkan unfortunately so I don't know.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597713753826811904


----------



## The SC



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## Shawnee

thetutle said:


> If I was Iran I would not be using western monitors for this sort of production. That would be a big mistake.
> 
> He's an empire builder and Russians see him as such. I think they mostly support him and his actions. All empires do this sort of stuff. We just have to make sure we dont become victims of it.
> 
> No I don't. Jews a fine people. Its just the thousands that I've met dont look very good or are not my type. For most part they look like ben stiller and Adam Sandler, and that face annoys the heck out of me.
> 
> lol, no. definitely not. Mila Kunis is kinda cute but in ukraine she would be a 3/10. In Bosnia she would be a 5/10. In Israel she would be a supermodel. I suppose there are many good looking half jewish actresses, like johanssen and Paltrow, but they are superstars, Women like that in Eastern Europe work at McDonalds. Just ask zelensky why he married a hot ethnic ukranian woman.
> 
> You found lots of gas? The irony of it. I wont make a joke out of that. I'm too sensitive to peoples feelings. Croatia didnt cuck us. They cucked Italy and Venice, Hungary and Austria. Half of Croatia has Bosnian ancestry. We are very closely related people. We would rather they control the sea than Italians. Some Bosnian kings controlled some of that sea maybe 700 years ago, but back then, its was not so clear who was Croatian who was Bosnian. In the future under the EU empire, there will be no border between us anyway.
> 
> Yeah, you wanted, but it was not attainable. Noone would swap Vienna for Negev if they had choice. Krakow or Lodz for some impoverished Palestinian village.
> 
> Interesting. Thank you. I noticed a slight uptick of antisemitism from ethnic Russians recently. That might be one of the reasons. But nothing compared to the massive uptick in their anti ukraniansim. Russians always saw the other slavs as a bit backward and unsophisticated. And they are right. But now its a much more pronounced feeling.
> 
> Russians are also much more fond of islamic countries and people lately. I guess they are looking for alternatives now that europe has shut the door on them. I mean Poland and Czech and some other countries dont even issue visas to them. Russians are not ok with this. they do take it personally.



Using western parts in Iranian drone is also a way to have plausible deniability.
Supplying drones to Russia has really upset Biden team.

If only Iran could offer an unknown drone with western parts, Iran would stay invisible.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597677821429952513


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597715951281410048

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## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Because Russia only deployed 150,000 men while Ukrainian field over 700,000 men. The Ukies are sending human waves in order to overcome the small Russian defenders. Besides, this is a war that the whole of NATO is fighting. In response, Russia triggered partial mobilization, and those are gonna be ready in the Winter, When those 300,000 men join the battle, Ukies will hopefully be done. Let us not forget Ukraine is thrown into darkness. You want to be NATO's cannon fodder, you stay in the darkness is the Russian motto.


Yeah, that's why the 1 million conscripts are thrown straight into battle😂



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597569791518466049


Look how they're without the CLU, in rough condition, don't show us if those are used canisters or not. Those are all disposable canisters, AT4, Javelin and NLAW. Pretty sure you could once buy the Javelin canisters online.


----------



## 925boy

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine war: Nato pledges to provide more weapons and fix power grid
> 
> 
> Millions of Ukrainians remain without power and water in freezing temperatures after Russian strikes.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk


CONCLUSION- NATO didnt learn from Afghanistan.

LMAO.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You can deny it but Polish casualties is in the thousands.


Polish mercenaries are dying alot in Ukraine, but i dont think they've changed much on the ground for Ukraine's benefit.


In reality, competition for territory in Ukraine is a distraction from the loss of personnel in the armies involved- if you lose too many soldiers, you either lose the war or/and lose more more territory.

It looks like Ukraine will need need NATO's direct involvement in order to survive this war even through end of next year.

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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> No I don't. Jews a fine people. Its just the thousands that I've met dont look very good or are not my type. For most part they look like ben stiller and Adam Sandler, and that face annoys the heck out of me


Look better lol.


thetutle said:


> lol, no. definitely not. Mila Kunis is kinda cute but in ukraine she would be a 3/10. In Bosnia she would be a 5/10. In Israel she would be a supermodel. I suppose there are many good looking half jewish actresses, like johanssen and Paltrow, but they are superstars, Women like that in Eastern Europe work at McDonalds. Just ask zelensky why he married a hot ethnic ukranian woman.


Dude. Madison Beer is Jewish, arguably the prettiest girl in the world. Another Jewish Israeli girl called Yael Shelbia won the prettiest face award in 2020 and I could swear to god I personally know girls that look better than her. Never even heard of Mila Kunis. Just open some "IDF girls" Instagram page and you'll see the 10/10s, we got plenty.

I'm Ukranian myself, there are plenty of Jewish Ukranian/Polish/Romanian/Russian girls here. 


thetutle said:


> You found lots of gas? The irony of it. I wont make a joke out of that. I'm too sensitive to peoples feelings. Croatia didnt cuck us. They cucked Italy and Venice, Hungary and Austria. Half of Croatia has Bosnian ancestry. We are very closely related people. We would rather they control the sea than Italians. Some Bosnian kings controlled some of that sea maybe 700 years ago, but back then, its was not so clear who was Croatian who was Bosnian. In the future under the EU empire, there will be no border between us anyway.


Lol. Good luck I guess. I think the Holy Land is more beautiful and worth more than Bosnia, to the 4 billion people around the world that believe in Judaism/Islam/Christianity/Bahaals, considering the fact it has thousands of years of history of empires fighting for it. We are a well more developed nation.


thetutle said:


> Yeah, you wanted, but it was not attainable. Noone would swap Vienna for Negev if they had choice. Krakow or Lodz for some impoverished Palestinian village.


We made better, richer, morcities than all of those. An amazing 20 million dollar villa is worthless if you hate the neighbors. 


thetutle said:


> Interesting. Thank you. I noticed a slight uptick of antisemitism from ethnic Russians recently. That might be one of the reasons. But nothing compared to the massive uptick in their anti ukraniansim. Russians always saw the other slavs as a bit backward and unsophisticated. And they are right. But now its a much more pronounced feeling.
> 
> Russians are also much more fond of islamic countries and people lately. I guess they are looking for alternatives now that europe has shut the door on them. I mean Poland and Czech and some other countries dont even issue visas to them. Russians are not ok with this. they do take it personally.


Russians never truly liked Israel and Israel never truly liked Russia. That being said, my class traveled to Moscow as a part of our Physics lessons, visited a bunch of space museums and centers. Almost all of us were Russian speaking so our assigned translator was basically useless. People didn't know we knew Russians and they were speaking bad stuff about us being Jewish, so we humiliated them by saying we knew Russian and watched them go pale. Funny times. It was years before the war started.

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## jhungary

Beny Karachun said:


> Yeah, that's why the 1 million conscripts are thrown straight into battle😂
> 
> 
> Look how they're without the CLU, in rough condition, don't show us if those are used canisters or not. Those are all disposable canisters, AT4, Javelin and NLAW. Pretty sure you could once buy the Javelin canisters online.


Nah, those were used, notice they photo that tube with both cap open, the missile will either fired or felt off if they do that. Which mean at which point the missile is NOT inside the tube.

On the other hand, I don't think that's even a Police Seizures, and definitely not Columbian. They will have sign and their logo stating what that is for a presser, that's how they get all the glory, and in Columbia case, they (the Police) will actually pose with the criminal next to those weapon















Colombian agents seize 118kg of explosives belonging to the ELN


Authorities in Colombia believe they intercepted a terror plot after arresting two men transporting a cache of explosives and a rocket launcher in a truck.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 901481
> 
> 
> 
> Europe, including Russia, in the Helsinki Accords agreed that all such historical claims are null and void.
> Once you have given up a claim, you cannot go back.


Since when has thieving been legitimised in any law or agreed by anyone?

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> Since when has thieving been legitimised in any law or agreed by anyone?


If you reject the notion that you own something, then you can’t come back 20 years later and claim it is stolen from you.
International law is a series of treaties. Once something is decided in a treaty, the signees are bound by the treaty.
You being ignorant of International Law does not change a thing.

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597316820989792256
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597582985997717506


Even the UN says russian invasion army is a bunch of rapists.










UN report details horrifying Ukrainian accounts of rape, torture and executions by Russian troops


In preparing the report, the commission conducted 191 interviews and traveled to 27 cities over five separate visits.




www.cnbc.com

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> If you reject the notion that you own something, then you can’t come back 20 years later and claim it is stolen from you.
> International law is a series of treaties. Once something is decided in a treaty, the signees are bound by the treaty.
> You being ignorant of International Law does not change a thing.


Colonial law and treatise enacted through crimes is not acceptable to anyone.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597873709087219713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597510719372939264

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## LeGenD

khansaheeb said:


> Colonial law and treatise enacted through crimes is not acceptable to anyone.



United Nations provides legitimacy to existence of any country that exist in modern times by recognizing its borders.





__





Recognized Borders - Reut Institute







reut-institute.org





A treaty should be "respected."

Islam also teach to honor a treaty irrespective of its political underpinnings. Treaty of Hudaybiyyah is notable example. This is a matter of having principles.

There should be a valid reason to walk out from a treaty (i.e., the other party is found to be violating it). This should not be a case of misuse of power because it sets a bad precedent.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597873716687679489
She admitted 100,000 Ukrainian officers dying in this war. What about the soldiers then? And how many of them wounded? I would assume at least 3 times more. The Donbass and NovoRossiya regionshave proven to be a meat grinder against NATO's cannon fodder aka Ukrainian military.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597722864312258561


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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597873716687679489
> She admitted 100,000 Ukrainian officers dying in this war. What about the soldiers then? And how many of them wounded? I would assume at least 3 times more. The Donbass and NovoRossiya regionshave proven to be a meat grinder against NATO's cannon fodder aka Ukrainian military.


You got to love people like this poster when the same woman (Ursula Von Der Leyen) said Russian death is at 100,000 + and the same dude saying "This is propaganda" yet when she said Ukrainian death is at 100,000 then it become gospel. 

It's the same source you know?? If you believe in one, then you must believe in the other because she is getting the information from the same intelligence estimate. You cannot discount one and believe one just because it connivence you.....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597623947193114624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597714690775617536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597709261404274688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597673423811284997

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597599290364510211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597590030918488064
Russia controls Ukrainian lands with energy, metal and mineral deposits' wealth exceeding 12 trillion dollars!







https://markets.businessinsider.com...gy-metals-oil-gas-coal-deposits-secdev-2022-8

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597757049852506112

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> Colonial law and treatise enacted through crimes is not acceptable to anyone.


I guess you have a lot to learn.
Every country have the right to accept or reject a treaty - until they sign it.
Then they are bound by it.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597873716687679489
> She admitted 100,000 Ukrainian officers dying in this war. What about the soldiers then? And how many of them wounded? I would assume at least 3 times more. The Donbass and NovoRossiya regionshave proven to be a meat grinder against NATO's cannon fodder aka Ukrainian military.





jhungary said:


> You got to love people like this poster when the same woman (Ursula Von Der Leyen) said Russian death is at 100,000 + and the same dude saying "This is propaganda" yet when she said Ukrainian death is at 100,000 then it become gospel.
> 
> It's the same source you know?? If you believe in one, then you must believe in the other because she is getting the information from the same intelligence estimate. You cannot discount one and believe one just because it connivence you.....





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597895208582381569


----------



## Battlion25

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597623947193114624
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597714690775617536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597709261404274688
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597673423811284997



If Bakhmut and Siversk fall then Kramatorsk will follow suit which will mean the whole North Donetsk region falling to the Russians

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## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> If Bakhmut and Siversk fall then Kramatorsk will follow suit which will mean the whole North Donetsk region falling to the Russians


That's the same as saying if Kherson and Mykolaiv fall then Odessa will follow suit.

The problem is, you need at least 2 route to attack big city like Kramatorsk and Sloviansk, it's not a small size city like Bakhmut or Siversk, you can't attack head on, so either the Russian have to round south all the way up to Oleksandrivka or re-invade North thru Lyman again, there are virtually no chance Kramatorsk would fall, and judging by the fact that it took the Russian 5 months now trying to crack Bakhmut front, you are talking about at least 50 months before they can do that even if they can re-occupy Lyman or attack into Oleksandrivka...


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Putting the "special" On the special military operation


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597910734977241089

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597711952876163073


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597950966669930496


----------



## LeGenD

Ukraine Situation Report: The Bloody Battle For Bakhmut​The long fight over Bakhmut has resulted in many casualties, little ground gained, and transformed the area into a WWI-like hellscape. 









Ukraine Situation Report: The Bloody Battle For Bakhmut


The long fight over Bakhmut has resulted in many casualties, little ground gained, and transformed the area into a WWI-like hellscape.




www.thedrive.com

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## Reashot Xigwin

Ah yes... Going back to the classics. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597795388202811392

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Dude. Madison Beer is Jewish, arguably the prettiest girl in the world.


yeah she's cute in a mousy way. Kind of looks like a mouse. many Colombians and South Americans look like that Take away make up and photoshop and she's average. I've seen gypsies that look like her. Also her legs are oddly shaped. she has thick upper legs and no calves. And look at her nose. Its the perfect nose I will admit. It's the opposite of a typical jewish nose. Where did she steal her DNA to get a nose like that? Maybe plastic surgery? 


Beny Karachun said:


> Another Jewish Israeli girl called Yael Shelbia won the prettiest face award in 2020 and I could swear to god I personally know girls that look better than her.


She has curly hair that she carefully straightens to look more "European". And she had a single eyebrow thats she clearly shaves. She probably won the prettiest face award in Israel and that tells you all you need to know. 


Beny Karachun said:


> Never even heard of Mila Kunis.
> 
> I'm Ukranian myself, there are plenty of Jewish Ukranian/Polish/Romanian/Russian girls here.


I can spot them a mile away, they are no good. Mila Kunis is the best you will find. And she's already a superstar. I'm sorry but this is the truth. We will never fight over women. 


Beny Karachun said:


> Lol. Good luck I guess. I think the Holy Land is more beautiful and worth more than Bosnia, to the 4 billion people around the world that believe in Judaism/Islam/Christianity/Bahaals, considering the fact it has thousands of years of history of empires fighting for it. We are a well more developed nation.


I wont be visiting the holy land in my life but its had to imagine it could be prettier than Bosnia. I can understand Yemeni Jews loving Israel, but I would have to say any European jew must find Israel a total hellhole. Many jews I've met would rather die than live in Israel. They love Israel, but would never ever live there. 



Beny Karachun said:


> Russians never truly liked Israel and Israel never truly liked Russia. That being said, my class traveled to Moscow as a part of our Physics lessons, visited a bunch of space museums and centers. Almost all of us were Russian speaking so our assigned translator was basically useless. People didn't know we knew Russians and they were speaking bad stuff about us being Jewish, so we humiliated them by saying we knew Russian and watched them go pale. Funny times. It was years before the war started.



My Russian GF is casually racist but would date anyone if they had enough money. And I figure this is a typical Russian attitude. She has expressed zero anti semitism, but a lot of anti polish and ukranian sentiment. The only reason Russian would have anti semitism is maybe what they hear in Church, because apart form the Russian revolution, jews have played a very limited role in Russian history.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> You got to love people like this poster when the same woman (Ursula Von Der Leyen) said Russian death is at 100,000 + and the same dude saying "This is propaganda" yet when she said Ukrainian death is at 100,000 then it become gospel.
> 
> It's the same source you know?? If you believe in one, then you must believe in the other because she is getting the information from the same intelligence estimate. You cannot discount one and believe one just because it connivence you.....




Her claims of Russian casualties are not reliable because she doesn't have access to them and she is also part of the countries waging war on Russia. So anything that Ursula Von Der Leyen states about Russian casualties is a pure propaganda, and we should take a grain of salt with any of her claims with respect to Russian casualties.

With respect to Ukrainian casualties, the EU that she is the president is the main backer of Ukraine, US being the other one. Therefore, she has full access to Ukrainian casualties. So when she admitted 100,000 Ukrainian military officers' casualties, that should tell you she is referring to the data that she has access to. 

It is also very possible that she is downplaying the Ukrainian casualties because she doesn't want to say anything that Russians can use as a propaganda. So she is most likely hiding the real casualties - meaning the real death and wounded of Ukrainians must be way above 500,000. And this is the reason why the Ukrainians are in their 6th or 7th mobilization phase. 

Let us not forget the Ukrainians have increased the age of military service to 60 years of age. And one should ask himself (or herself) why would they need men who are 60 years of age. The only explanation is the attrition rate must be very high. 

So Mr @jhungary, you and others can believe in your fairy tales, but as we've seen, the truth has strange way of revealing itself.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597895208582381569




The EU is in damage control now. 

But just like I told your friend @jhungary, truth has strange way of revealing itself. The death of 100,000 Ukrainian military officers has been admitted by the EU president, And this proves why Ukrainians are in their 6th or 7th mobilization phase.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597923411434799105
The casualty figures of Ukrainians have now been removed from the EU's website. 👇









Press corner


Highlights, press releases and speeches




ec.europa.eu

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## Hassan Al-Somal

What is this? Whatever it is, those are some darn strange moves for a supposedly soldier to make for other men. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597974566294278148

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597980862934843404

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597975313916448768

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597819016990846983

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597986320449933312

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## Viet

Interesting

The wagner hooligans run against Ukraine wall of artillery at Bakhmut since months without success. Now they want to double down, no matter the cost. Their lives matter little.
















Ukraine-Invasion Tag 278: Sturm auf Bachmut – Russlands verzweifelte Offensive wird nun noch brutaler


Berichte über Räumung von besetztem AKW, wie Moskau den Süden sichern will, die Lücken in der russischen Verteidigung. Der Überblick am Abend.




www.tagesspiegel.de


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597984183208792067

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Her claims of Russian casualties are not reliable because she doesn't have access to them and she is also part of the countries waging war on Russia. So anything that Ursula Von Der Leyen states about Russian casualties is a pure propaganda, and we should take a grain of salt with any of her claims with respect to Russian casualties.
> 
> With respect to Ukrainian casualties, the EU that she is the president is the main backer of Ukraine, US being the other one. Therefore, she has full access to Ukrainian casualties. So when she admitted 100,000 Ukrainian military officers' casualties, that should tell you she is referring to the data that she has access to.
> 
> It is also very possible that she is downplaying the Ukrainian casualties because she doesn't want to say anything that Russians can use as a propaganda. So she is most likely hiding the real casualties - meaning the real death and wounded of Ukrainians must be way above 500,000. And this is the reason why the Ukrainians are in their 6th or 7th mobilization phase.
> 
> Let us not forget the Ukrainians have increased the age of military service to 60 years of age. And one should ask himself (or herself) why would they need men who are 60 years of age. The only explanation is the attrition rate must be very high.
> 
> So Mr @jhungary, you and others can believe in your fairy tales, but as we've seen, the truth has strange way of revealing itself.


This is simply dumb.

Ukraine won't tell anyone, be it EU or US or even their own government, how many people they lost, again, I still have Top Secret Clearence from the work I have done with the department of defence, and for all the intelligence cable I saw, not one of them are claimed to have actual figure on how many people Ukraine has lost.

All of those figures are estimated by the same source, for her is the OSCE intelligence, for us, it's the CIA. Which mean both figures would have come from the same source, so it would have to be really stupid for you to nikpick one because it convivence you than the other. That's why I keep saying estimation from BOTH side is merely a fart, you try to have the other guy smell bad.

On the other hand, it's not hard to even imagine Russia has lost more than just a few thousand troop they have said, the lack of progress + the mobilisation of 300,000 and now maybe more troop, you don't need to know the actual figure to know they lost enough troop they can't replace it at a normal rate, and if they can't do that, that mean that figure is significant.

But then who am I talking to? You can go believe Russia only lost 5000 troop, I have no problem with that because that mean nothing, progress on the field is the one that was charted, the number of loss troop may help with romanticize the war when you are shooting a movie over that in 10 years' time, but right now? Who is making a push is more important than who is losing more troop on the ground.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Battlion25 said:


> If Bakhmut and Siversk fall then Kramatorsk will follow suit which will mean the whole North Donetsk region falling to the Russians

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597982556234076161

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597988658853748736

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## Viet




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## K_Bin_W

I hear UK has bought over $90M worth of Russkie oil recently.... hehehe like they say, No honor among thieves.

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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> yeah she's cute in a mousy way. Kind of looks like a mouse. many Colombians and South Americans look like that Take away make up and photoshop and she's average. I've seen gypsies that look like her. Also her legs are oddly shaped. she has thick upper legs and no calves. And look at her nose. Its the perfect nose I will admit. It's the opposite of a typical jewish nose. Where did she steal her DNA to get a nose like that? Maybe plastic surgery?





thetutle said:


> She has curly hair that she carefully straightens to look more "European". And she had a single eyebrow thats she clearly shaves. She probably won the prettiest face award in Israel and that tells you all you need to know.


Lol. You're really critiquing Madison Beer?


Yael Shelbia won a global award, not an Israeli one. I don't know how her shaving her eyebrows or straightening her hair make her less worthy. 


thetutle said:


> wont be visiting the holy land in my life but its had to imagine it could be prettier than Bosnia. I can understand Yemeni Jews loving Israel, but I would have to say any European jew must find Israel a total hellhole. Many jews I've met would rather die than live in Israel. They love Israel, but would never ever live there.



I am a European Jew, I've been to Germany, Czech Republic, Ukraine, Russia, Bulgaria and Hungary. They're not bad places (except Russia and Ukraine which for the most part are shitholes), but nothing like Israel. Israel is better, has better weather, more lively and young people, better food. 

Their only advantage is that they're cheaper than Israel. Combined with the fact Israelis make more money on average makes them attractive places to visit.



thetutle said:


> My Russian GF is casually racist but would date anyone if they had enough money. And I figure this is a typical Russian attitude. She has expressed zero anti semitism, but a lot of anti polish and ukranian sentiment. The only reason Russian would have anti semitism is maybe what they hear in Church, because apart form the Russian revolution, jews have played a very limited role in Russian history.


All Eastern Europeans are casually racist, I am as well.

Jews were the backbone of all engineering and science in the USSR. When most of the Jews left Russia couldn't compete anymore.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597921195176755201

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597982556234076161



russians have been claiming the "liberation" of those villages several times already,with no visual confirmation as always.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597921195176755201



@bobo6661 this is the BS Russians are spreading.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597996053516943361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598020121515405312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597987189992067073

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597878776486309888


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597996258207363073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597981218209157126


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598033123719188484

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597921195176755201



The only thing we preparing to annex is moon we already done a referendum 100% or even 102% where for it ...
Czech on the other hand prepering to annex _Kaliningrad Oblast_ and they want to share it with us like this . They already done a referendum to. So its all legit


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578028465261277184








Vergennes said:


> russians have been claiming the "liberation" of those villages several times already,with no visual confirmation as always.
> 
> 
> 
> @bobo6661 this is the BS Russians are spreading.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597996053516943361
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598020121515405312
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597987189992067073



I have no words  there is a limit how much dumb someone can be  they spreading this form begging of war...

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597988658853748736


An acceleration of 0 mph is how much? 

Russia lost 50% of what it once conquered
It has been fighting months for Bakhmut.

I take all those “blitzkrieg. Advances, pincers, pockets” posts as background noise

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russian corruption are so bad they just put building materials instead of shrapnels in their kamikaze drone. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597514410288816129

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Putting the "special" On the special military operation
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597910734977241089


well you think what sort of persons didn't manage to leave the country or stay hidden . they certainly didn't had the IQ of 110


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Comments like this one shouldn't be posted in this forum. Calling the Russian people and soldiers "cockroaches" is the worst form of dehumanization. We need to keep the forum healthy for news updates and discussions.

@LeGenD @WebMaster @waz

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Comments like this one shouldn't be posted in this forum. Calling the Russian people and soldiers "cockroaches" is the worst form of dehumanization. We need to keep the forum healthy for news updates and discussions.
> 
> @LeGenD @WebMaster @waz



That's rich coming from someone like you who keeps ranting about jews and "gay westerners" on this thread on many occasions.

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## The SC




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## 925boy

K_Bin_W said:


> I hear UK has bought over $90M worth of Russkie oil recently.... hehehe like they say, No honor among thieves.


Exactly- we are now seeing who really needs who in 2022- and apparently UK needs alot of international "help "still, so yea, EU is buying Russian oil STILL, US is probably secretly buying Russian diesel or oil or gasoline too.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> That's rich coming from someone like you who keeps ranting about jews and "gay westerners" on this thread on many occasions.




I've never said anything negative against Jews. Stop making sh-t up. Now, you need to refrain from posting racist language against Russians. 

Fyi, I've never called any group "cockroaches". You need to own it and delete the comment that doesn't fit in the forum.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597915263823122433

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I guess you have a lot to learn.
> Every country have the right to accept or reject a treaty - until they sign it.
> Then they are bound by it.


You have a lot to learn, Treatise signed under duress are not valid.

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## khansaheeb

Ukraine: Zelenska tells MPs that UK must 'unite the world'


Speaking in the Commons, Olena Zelenska compared Ukraine's plight to that of the UK during World War Two.



www.bbc.com





Ukraine: Zelenska tells MPs that UK must 'unite the world'​

Published
1 day ago

Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war





IMAGE SOURCE,PA MEDIA
Image caption,
Olena Zelenska was introduced to the House of Commons by Speaker Lindsay Hoyle
By Jasmine Andersson
BBC News

*Ukraine's First Lady Olena Zelenska has urged MPs to "unite the world community" and help end Ukraine's conflict with Russia.*
Speaking in the House of Commons, Mrs Zelenska compared Russia's bombardment of Ukrainian cities to Nazi Germany's bombing of the UK during World War Two.
"You did not surrender, and we will not surrender," she said.
The speech comes as Ukraine enters its ninth month of conflict with Vladimir Putin's forces.
Mrs Zelenska is visiting the UK to highlight the plight of the Ukrainian people, millions of whom face a harsh winter with regular power cuts both planned and unplanned.
ADVERTISEMENT

Fierce fighting continues on both the southern and eastern fronts of the country.

As part of her address, Mrs Zelenska showed pictures that she said depicted the impact of Russian air strikes, which have caused blackouts in major cities, including in capital Kyiv, as well as Lviv, Zaporizhzhia and Kharkiv.
The first lady said: "Your island survived the air raids that were identical to those Russia uses to put us on our knees.


Why did Russia invade Ukraine and has Putin's war failed?
Ukraine in maps: Russian defeat in the south
Refugee tells of wife's death after maternity hospital bombing
"We are hearing sirens every day identical to those British generations heard."
She also said that Ukrainian forces had discovered torture rooms in areas recaptured from Russian control.
Last month, Ukraine found the bodies of 63 civilians bearing signs of torture near the recently liberated city of Kherson. Russia has repeatedly denied committing atrocities in its invasion. But the BBC has spoken to two people who said they were held for more than a month in the "torture chambers" alluded to by Mrs Zelenska.
Mr Putin has also accused Ukraine of committing war crimes against Russian soldiers.





Image caption,
Lindsay Hoyle introduced the Ukrainian first lady to MPs
Mrs Zelenska told MPs that the UK should be "a world leader in justice efforts."
"Victory is not the only thing we need, we need justice," she said.
Speaker of the House Lindsay Hoyle, who introduced the first lady to the Commons, said Zelenska's visit must "shock us awake again".
The UK must avoid thinking the war is "going on in a far away land" and that it "does not affect us", he said.
"If Putin wins, other nations will be in his sights," he added.

Media caption,
Watch: Zelenska's visit must shock us awake again - Sir Lindsay Hoyle
As part of the trip, Mrs Zelenska has met Camilla, the Queen Consort, as well as Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's wife, Akshata Murthy.

Earlier, Camilla greeted Mrs Zelenska at a reception to raise awareness of violence against women and girls.
Delivering a speech at the event, the Ukrainian first lady said many women had been raped by Russian soldiers.
"The youngest victim of rape is four and eldest is 85," she said.
The BBC has heard first-hand testimony and found evidence of Ukrainian women being raped by invading soldiers.
On the BBC's Today programme, the first lady also urged the British public to continue to support Ukraine.
She said: "We do hope that the approaching season of Christmas doesn't make you forget about our tragedy and get used to our suffering."

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Comments like this one shouldn't be posted in this forum. Calling the Russian people and soldiers "cockroaches" is the worst form of dehumanization. We need to keep the forum healthy for news updates and discussions.
> 
> @LeGenD @WebMaster @waz


Talk about the pot calling the kettle black…

I suggest you delete all your comments where You call the Ukrainans ”Nazis”.
Will there be more or less than 10% left?

@LeGenD @WebMaster @waz



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I've never said anything negative against Jews. Stop making sh-t up. Now, you need to refrain from posting racist language against Russians.
> 
> Fyi, I've never called any group "cockroaches". You need to own it and delete the comment that doesn't fit in the forum.


@LeGenD I suggest Hassan has to delete all his comments where he calls Ukrainans Nazis within a week or get thread banned.

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> You have a lot to learn, Treatise signed under duress are not valid.


That is your opinion, and your opinion only.
Countries are not playing according to the same rules as people.
Men without honour will of course violate their word.
They will also spit on treaties. You can make a personal choice if You want to be a man of honour or a despicable beeing.

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## F-22Raptor

US considers dramatically expanding training of Ukrainian forces​
WashingtonCNN — 
The Biden administration is considering a dramatic expansion in the training the US military provides to Ukrainian forces, including instructing as many as 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers a month at a US base in Germany, according to multiple US officials. 

If adopted, the proposal would mark a significant increase not just in the number of Ukrainians the US trains but also in the type of training they receive. Since the start of the conflict in February, the US has trained only a few thousand Ukrainian soldiers, mostly in small groups, on specific weapons systems. 

Under the new program, the US would begin training much larger groups of Ukrainian soldiers in more sophisticated battlefield tactics, including how to coordinate infantry maneuvers with artillery support – “much more intense and comprehensive” training than Ukraine has been receiving in Poland or the UK, according to one source briefed on the proposal.









First on CNN: US considers dramatically expanding training of Ukrainian forces, US officials say | CNN Politics


The Biden administration is considering a dramatic expansion in the training the US military provides to Ukrainian forces, including instructing as many as 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers a month at a US base in Germany, according to multiple US officials.




www.cnn.com

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> US considers dramatically expanding training of Ukrainian forces​
> WashingtonCNN —
> The Biden administration is considering a dramatic expansion in the training the US military provides to Ukrainian forces, including instructing as many as 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers a month at a US base in Germany, according to multiple US officials.
> 
> If adopted, the proposal would mark a significant increase not just in the number of Ukrainians the US trains but also in the type of training they receive. Since the start of the conflict in February, the US has trained only a few thousand Ukrainian soldiers, mostly in small groups, on specific weapons systems.
> 
> Under the new program, the US would begin training much larger groups of Ukrainian soldiers in more sophisticated battlefield tactics, including how to coordinate infantry maneuvers with artillery support – “much more intense and comprehensive” training than Ukraine has been receiving in Poland or the UK, according to one source briefed on the proposal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First on CNN: US considers dramatically expanding training of Ukrainian forces, US officials say | CNN Politics
> 
> 
> The Biden administration is considering a dramatic expansion in the training the US military provides to Ukrainian forces, including instructing as many as 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers a month at a US base in Germany, according to multiple US officials.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com


How is US going to get the money back from all this investment and what is the middle and end game? As we have seen in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan it is easy to get in but hard to get out. Last thing NATO want to do is get trapped in its own trap. Russia/China partnership is formidable and the Indians will play along join the Russia-China gang later on , no matter how they are strung along. India's Neo-Nazi nationalism will hit the cross roads and they are no fools and know the turn to take.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Talk about the pot calling the kettle black…
> 
> I suggest you delete all your comments where You call the Ukrainans ”Nazis”.
> Will there be more or less than 10% left?
> 
> @LeGenD @WebMaster @waz
> 
> 
> @LeGenD I suggest Hassan has to delete all his comments where he calls Ukrainans Nazis within a week or get thread banned.



I bring relevant information to this thread, but has never gone low to call Ukrainians or anyone else as cockroaches. 

Additionally, Azov was a confirmed Neo-Nazi group. Even the US Congress considered to designating them as a foreign terrorist organization. 👇

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/29/europe/ukraine-azov-movement-far-right-intl-cmd/index.html

"Azov’s military and political wings formally separated in 2016, when the far-right National Corps party was founded. The Azov battalion had by then been integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard.

An effective fighting force that’s very much involved in the current conflict, *the battalion has a history of neo-Nazi leanings, which have not been entirely extinguished by its integration into the Ukrainian military. *

*In its heyday as an autonomous militia, the Azov Battalion was associated with White supremacists and neo-Nazi ideology and insignia. It was especially active in and around Mariupol in 2014 and 2015. CNN teams in the area at the time reported Azov’s embrace of neo-Nazi emblems and parap*hernalia.

After its integration into the Ukrainian National Guard, *amid discussions in the US Congress about designating the Azov Movement a foreign terrorist organization,* Ukraine’s then minister of internal affairs, Arsen Avakov, defended the unit. “The shameful information campaign about the alleged spread of *Nazi ideology* (among Azov members) is a deliberate attempt to discredit the ‘Azov’ unit and the National Guard of Ukraine,” he told the online newspaper Ukrayinska Pravda in 2019."

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Talk about the pot calling the kettle black…
> 
> I suggest you delete all your comments where You call the Ukrainans ”Nazis”.
> Will there be more or less than 10% left?
> 
> @LeGenD @WebMaster @waz


well , then what to do with the nonsignificant and unimportant fact that a healthy chunk of Ukrainian politician and powerbrokers and behind the scene string pullers are Nazi or Nazi sympathizers


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## James David

jhungary said:


> If we go by what "Historical" belong to, then most of the world belong to the 3 nations, The British Empire, The Spanish and The Russian. Just because it was part of something does not mean it is still "Disputed" International Law existed for a reason.


What about if India claims Pakistan since it's one country back in the day? That makes more sense I think.


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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I've never said anything negative against Jews. Stop making sh-t up. Now, you need to refrain from posting racist language against Russians.
> 
> Fyi, I've never called any group "cockroaches". You need to own it and delete the comment that doesn't fit in the forum.


yee right

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## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> yee right
> 
> View attachment 901927

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## Primus

James David said:


> What about if India claims Pakistan since it's one country back in the day? That makes more sense I think.


Hmm except it can't considering how, officially, India came into existence from August 15th 1947 and Pakistan, officially, came into existence from August 14th 1947. 

Also historically speaking it should be Pakistan that claims all of India and then some thanks to the Mughal empire, or it should be the British that should be claiming thanks to their British Empire/British Raj.

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## Viet

Cool

The US considers sending Patriot missile batteries to Ukraine. Germany will play the key role. The missiles will be armed by precision munitions and powered by rocket motors made in Germany.









US Considers Patriot Missile Defense for Ukraine: Pentagon


The US is considering sending the Patriot missile defense system to Ukraine, a US defense official revealed at a press conference Tuesday.




www.thedefensepost.com

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598259057936465920


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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Jews were the backbone of all engineering and science in the USSR. When most of the Jews left Russia couldn't compete anymore.


This is mostly true. And in America too, and When the jews were living in Germany or Austria-Hungary those countries were a major empire. makes you wonder whether its the jews that are the critical component of making a powerful empire, or whether they are like moths attracted to light, migrating wherever the sun shines brightly. 

But yes, Russia is greatly diminished without it's jews, but also other people it has enslaved over the centuries. 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> An effective fighting force that’s very much involved in the current conflict, *the battalion has a history of neo-Nazi leanings, which have not been entirely extinguished by its integration into the Ukrainian military. *





Hassan Al-Somal said:


> the Azov Battalion was associated with White supremacists and neo-Nazi ideology and insignia.


What is your obsession with nazis and neo nazis? Give it a break. You must be a russian, I've never seen any Somalians concerned about nazis. But they seem to trigger you.

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## Vergennes

thetutle said:


> This is mostly true. And in America too, and When the jews were living in Germany or Austria-Hungary those countries were a major empire. makes you wonder whether its the jews that are the critical component of making a powerful empire, or whether they are like moths attracted to light, migrating wherever the sun shines brightly.
> 
> But yes, Russia is greatly diminished without it's jews, but also other people it has enslaved over the centuries.
> 
> 
> 
> What is your obsession with nazis and neo nazis? Give it a break. You must be a russian, I've never seen any Somalians concerned about nazis. But they seem to trigger you.



Russians are obsessed with the Azov regiment and branding every Ukrainians as nazis while large number of Russian neo nazis are fighting right now in Ukraine,just like the "Rusich" group or the russian imperial movement among others but I see no russian funboys making a fuss about it.

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> Russians are obsessed with the Azov regiment and branding every Ukrainians as nazis while large number of Russian neo nazis are fighting right now in Ukraine,just like the "Rusich" group or the russian imperial movement among others but I see no russian funboys making a fuss about it.


Exactly, right wing ideology is only a stick they use to bash Ukraine. A country with a jewish president.

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL finally the Chinese decides to send their ammo to Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598273325809049601

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598120004716990464

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Gee, why are they hiding in schools? This is putting civilians in harms way, and Ukrainians need to stop doing that. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598320878860877824

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## Hassan Al-Somal

thetutle said:


> Exactly, right wing ideology is only a stick they use to bash Ukraine. A country with a jewish president.



Hitler was reported to be having a Jewish blood. Don't hear from me, check with Sergei Lavrov 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521168891044638720
In other words, a country having a Jewish president doesn't absolve them from having Neo-Nazis to the core if there is a proof that can be cited.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598239710249627649

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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> This is mostly true. And in America too, and When the jews were living in Germany or Austria-Hungary those countries were a major empire. makes you wonder whether its the jews that are the critical component of making a powerful empire, or whether they are like moths attracted to light, migrating wherever the sun shines brightly.
> 
> But yes, Russia is greatly diminished without it's jews, but also other people it has enslaved over the centuries.


Think for yourself, in 1948 Israel was not powerul in any way and turned it into a modern state with an economy that competes with Europe, did Jews migrate there like moths because the light shined there?


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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597599290364510211
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597590030918488064
> Russia controls Ukrainian lands with energy, metal and mineral deposits' wealth exceeding 12 trillion dollars!
> 
> View attachment 901635
> 
> 
> https://markets.businessinsider.com...gy-metals-oil-gas-coal-deposits-secdev-2022-8


Outdated map
Ukraine has retaken Kharkiv, Kherson.
Even Russians still occupy parts of Ukraine territory they can’t dig a dollar out of the soil because of instant fear of Ukraine artillery.


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## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Hitler was reported to be having a Jewish blood. Don't hear from me, check with Sergei Lavrov 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521168891044638720
> In other words, a country having a Jewish president doesn't absolve them from having Neo-Nazis to the core if there is a proof that can be cited.


Ah yes, the pillar of truth, Sergei Lavrov.

If the words of Russian politicians is so important for you here is Putin apologizing for Lavrovs statement:








Putin sorry for minister's Nazi comments - Israel - BBC News


Russia's foreign minister claimed that Nazi leader Adolf Hitler had Jewish blood, sparking outrage.




www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org

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## 925boy

khansaheeb said:


> How is US going to get the money back from all this investment and what is the middle and end game? As we have seen in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan it is easy to get in but hard to get out. Last thing NATO want to do is get trapped in its own trap. Russia/China partnership is formidable and the Indians will play along join the Russia-China gang later on , no matter how they are strung along. India's Neo-Nazi nationalism will hit the cross roads and they are no fools and know the turn to take.


Excellent spot on comments here bro, cheers.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: Graphic: Ukrainian army pickup truck was destroyed by a Russian strike





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598314706267144193

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## Viet

Dec 1 at 01:45 PM
Raytheon wins $1.2 billion surface-to-air missile order for Ukraine​




A Norwegian soldier fuels up a vehicle carrying radar to a NASAMS air-defense system during winter exercise Joint Viking 2017 in Finnmark, Norway.

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Army awarded Raytheon Missiles and Defense a contract worth as much as $1.2 billion to deliver six National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System batteries for Ukraine.

The contract is part of the fifth Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative package and includes training and logistical support to Ukraine’s military and security forces, the Army said in a a Nov. 30 statement.

Raytheon, the world’s second-largest defense contractor, won a contract in August to deliver to NASAMS batteries to Ukraine as part of the third USAI package. The new contract is a follow-on.

The first two NASAMS batteries, capable of firing AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles, have been delivered and deployed and “have successfully demonstrated the effectiveness of the systems against the threat,” according to the Army.

Pentagon officials have said the first NASAMS were able to be purchased quickly because the bulk of the systems had already been produced.

The NASAMS was developed by Norwegian defense company Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace and Raytheon. They are used to defend the National Capital Region in the U.S. from possible air threats but are otherwise not used in operations by the U.S. Army.

“These are proven systems that will continue making a difference on the battlefield,” William LaPlante, under secretary for defense for acquisition and sustainment, said in the statement.

It takes 24 months lead time to produce and deliver NASAMS, though the Army and industry are looking for ways to shorten that timeline.

“This effort further illustrates the urgency the U.S. government is taking in its approach to acquire air-defense systems for our allies and to replenish our own munition stockpiles,” the Army said.









Raytheon wins $1.2 billion surface-to-air missile order for Ukraine


The U.S. Army has awarded Raytheon what could be worth up to $1.2 billion to deliver six more surface to air missile systems for Ukraine.




www.defensenews.com

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Hitler was reported to be having a Jewish blood. Don't hear from me, check with Sergei Lavrov 👇


Lavrov obviously hates Germany and Hitler so he is trowing endless insults at him. This is a good example. Lavrov is half Armanian, so that tells you all you need to know.

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL finally the Chinese decides to send their ammo to Russia.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598273325809049601


It didn't say China supply munition to Russia, it only say Russia selling those brass shell as scrap to China....

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Think for yourself, in 1948 Israel was not powerul in any way and turned it into a modern state with an economy that competes with Europe, did Jews migrate there like moths because the light shined there?


It's in incorrect premise to start with. Israel is not a real country, its more of an armed camp and and an extension of the west. Like a "Banat Krajina" between Austria and Ottoman empire. A sort of military frontier between rival empires or spheres. You have a flag and a people and economy and all the things, but its a military frontier and only lasts while the war lasts. Then it gets absorbed in the new architecture. So you didnt fly there like moths to a light, you were commandeered to move there when it was gifted to you but the west. It is not a gift out of kindness but you have an important role to play in keeping the military frontier viable. 

The best and most able of you managed to fly to the light in America and Australia and the results are magnificent. Leaders of industry and culture etc. Where you live like kings and royalty. The unfortunate ones are in Israel. Thats my view, and I'm not always right. Feel free to disagree. 

But the question is do you make the empire or are you just the icing on the cake. My view is that empires require more than just brilliant minds, and most of the empires had their foundations built without you guys. But you certainly add incredible value to any empire.

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> It didn't say China supply munition to Russia, it only say Russia selling those brass shell as scrap to China....



It is joke


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## zartosht

So the ukies are claiming they executed the Russian soldiers because of the chaos when someone opened fire on them


But you look at the image, and everyone is neatly lined up with bullet wounds in the head. There is no way in hell this would have happened in a chaotic shootout

This is a deliberate mass execution documented by the ukies themselves. 

This has even filled ukie lines with fear as ukie soldiers surrendering are now screaming “were not with the 81st airborne, dont kill us”

If I was a Russian general, id be showing this footage to every single Russian soldier. To show them what happens when they surrender, and what type of sub human garbage they are fighting.

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595999619074650112


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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> It's in incorrect premise to start with. Israel is not a real country, its more of an armed camp and and an extension of the west. Like a "Banat Krajina" between Austria and Ottoman empire. A sort of military frontier between rival empires or spheres. You have a flag and a people and economy and all the things, but its a military frontier and only lasts while the war lasts. Then it gets absorbed in the new architecture. So you didnt fly there like moths to a light, you were commandeered to move there when it was gifted to you but the west. It is not a gift out of kindness but you have an important role to play in keeping the military frontier viable.
> 
> The best and most able of you managed to fly to the light in America and Australia and the results are magnificent. Leaders of industry and culture etc. Where you live like kings and royalty. The unfortunate ones are in Israel. Thats my view, and I'm not always right. Feel free to disagree.
> 
> But the question is do you make the empire or are you just the icing on the cake. My view is that empires require more than just brilliant minds, and most of the empires had their foundations built without you guys. But you certainly add incredible value to any empire.


But it is a real country by all definitions.

How exactly is Israel a border between rivals? Israel is small and not even bordering Europe, and no Muslim country rivals the Europeans. 

What Israel "lacks" besides brilliant minds?

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## Reashot Xigwin

zartosht said:


> So the ukies are claiming they executed the Russian soldiers because of the chaos when someone opened fire on them
> 
> 
> But you look at the image, and everyone is neatly lined up with bullet wounds in the head. There is no way in hell this would have happened in a chaotic shootout
> 
> This is a deliberate mass execution documented by the ukies themselves.
> 
> This has even filled ukie lines with fear as ukie soldiers surrendering are now screaming “were not with the 81st airborne, dont kill us”
> 
> If I was a Russian general, id be showing this footage to every single Russian soldier. To show them what happens when they surrender, and what type of sub human garbage they are fighting.







See you getting it.


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## zartosht

Reashot Xigwin said:


> View attachment 902030
> 
> See you getting it.



good job mr banana. You are now officially a “whiteboy”. Congratulations 

You can stop sucking up and being all pathetic now. Your a white boyy!

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## Reashot Xigwin

zartosht said:


> good job mr banana. You are now officially a “whiteboy”. Congratulations
> 
> You can stop sucking up and being all pathetic now. Your a white boyy!



Why u so Amgy with me? I just like seeing Russians get killed... 

You are so mean...


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## zartosht

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Why u so Amgy with me? I just like seeing Russians get killed...
> 
> You are so mean...
> View attachment 902032



Im not angry. You seem young and im giving you some life advice

No matter how much you act banana and suck up. You will never be accepted as a white man. Stop embarrassing yoursellf. You look pathetic.

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## Reashot Xigwin

zartosht said:


> Im not angry. You seem young and im giving you some life advice
> 
> No matter how much you act banana and suck up. You will never be accepted as a white man. Stop embarrassing yoursellf. You look pathetic.








LOL who said I'm sucking up? I just love seeing Russians getting murdered here. Can't someone have a hobby? 

After all Russians ain't human... Your word btw.


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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> But it is a real country by all definitions.
> 
> How exactly is Israel a border between rivals? Israel is small and not even bordering Europe, and no Muslim country rivals the Europeans.
> 
> What Israel "lacks" besides brilliant minds?


Thats a very good question. Russia makes these military frontiers all the time. It copied the Austrian and Turkish model of the "military frontier" and kick started the creation of these so called countries after WW1. Its started with Armenia. It commandeered a dispossessed population and armed them and made them do its bidding and fight its wars. It does this today with "Donetsk Peoples Republic". This is not a real country, its a military frontier. It has its flag and anthem and people, and very good weapons, (although they aren't looking so good now), But Donetsk people republic had weapons Russia would not sell Iran. And it got them for free.

These military frontiers were fantastic, so the French copied the system but took it up a level. It cerated Lebanon in the same way. Using dispossessed Arab christians. only the military frontier didnt border france. So they used this fake country to create a border with the muslim world, right at its heart. Brilliant military strategy. But results not as good as the Arab christians weren't as devoted and militant as the Armenians. 

The British, most cunning and clever out of all of the empires studied the strategy and when the opportunity presented itself, in 1945 went above and beyond of what was possible. the most oppressed and dispossessed group was going to do its bidding and create the ultimate military frontier. Israel. Unsinkable aircraft carrier. 

So you are to the Anglo-Saxon Empire (UK, US, CAN, AUS, NZ) what Armenia is to Russia. Lucky for you we (I say "we" because I live in this empire) have better weapons than russia. And you will survive and proposer while you do the empire's bidding. When the conflict with the muslims is over, you will be merged into the new architecture. The winner will create the new architecture. Might be a Middle East version of EU if the Anglos win, or if the Arabs win, you will be some sort of Liechtenstein where you can do banking and IT and they will tax you. In any event you will be disarmed as there wont be a need for such weapons. 

So no, you're not a real country, you are a transitional military frontier. An armed camp, loyal to the empire. And without the empire, it would be "oy vay".

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## zartosht

“Over 100k ukie officers killed” was accidently admitted by ursula the witch

Virtually any videos of ukie front line soldiers you see grim looking officers saying they lost 80% of their best men

Russias entire opening force was around a 100k. A huge chunk left when their 6 month contract expired, and many remain occupying ukie lands

This tells you about the depth of the slaughter so far. Nato has been throwing ukie men into suicidal missions, while the Russians have been calmly slaughtering (de-natzifying ) ukraine

This in itself is a war crime by the americans. They caused the absolute slauther of ukie youth with fake propaganda to fight the Russians

This winter is going to get reallly ugly for the ukies and middle-lower middle class westerners. Karma is not happy woth the west

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## Vergennes

zartosht said:


> “Over 100k ukie officers killed” was accidently admitted by ursula the witch
> 
> Virtually any videos of ukie front line soldiers you see grim looking officers saying they lost 80% of their best men
> 
> Russias entire opening force was around a 100k. A huge chunk left when their 6 month contract expired, and many remain occupying ukie lands
> 
> This tells you about the depth of the slaughter so far. Nato has been throwing ukie men into suicidal missions, while the Russians have been calmly slaughtering (de-natzifying ) ukraine
> 
> This in itself is a war crime by the americans. They caused the absolute slauther of ukie youth with fake propaganda to fight the Russians
> 
> This winter is going to get reallly ugly for the ukies and middle-lower middle class westerners. Karma is not happy woth the west



The level of BS and copium on this post is amazing.

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## zartosht

Vergennes said:


> The level of BS and copium on this post is amazing.
> 
> View attachment 902059



No wonder ursula the witch quickly edited her interview. 

Cant have narrative believing simpletons doubt the glorious ukie victory!!


How exactly does your picture change what i said? Since day 1 the Russians have been more then happy to trade new captured ukie territory for the mass slaughter of desperate ukie soldiers attempting to regain ground on open terrain against a side that has thrm completely outclassed in artillery, air, missiles and now even drones…

Those over 100k dead are a gross underestimation in my opinion. But even if we take it at face value… it is absolutely catastrophic for a country of 40 million with a declining population and low birth rates to lose hundreds of thousands of military age men. While their women are working as cheap escorts for the european men cheering them on.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Good news everyone. Russia just retreated from the opposite side of the kherson bank.


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## K_Bin_W

zartosht said:


> “Over 100k ukie officers killed” was accidently admitted by ursula the witch
> 
> Virtually any videos of ukie front line soldiers you see grim looking officers saying they lost 80% of their best men
> 
> Russias entire opening force was around a 100k. A huge chunk left when their 6 month contract expired, and many remain occupying ukie lands
> 
> This tells you about the depth of the slaughter so far. Nato has been throwing ukie men into suicidal missions, while the Russians have been calmly slaughtering (de-natzifying ) ukraine
> 
> This in itself is a war crime by the americans. They caused the absolute slauther of ukie youth with fake propaganda to fight the Russians
> 
> This winter is going to get reallly ugly for the ukies and middle-lower middle class westerners. Karma is not happy woth the west


The armchair field marshals believe UKri is winning little do they know that it's only on Twitter the ground realities are very different... Most will disappear when the dust settles and the smoke clears.

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## SIPRA

K_Bin_W said:


> The armchair field marshals believe UKri is winning little do they know that it's only on Twitter the ground realities are very different... Most will disappear when the dust settles and the smoke clears.



Too many supporters of US/Ukraine on this thread. Supporters of Russia are few.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598148081282949121

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595999619074650112


I guess there is no need for evidence

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## Ali_Baba

*Russian forces have been forced to pull back from opposite side of the Dnipro River to the southern city of Kherson*









Biden and Macron pledge to maintain a united front against Putin


President Emmanuel Macron was honoured at a State Dinner in Washington.




www.express.co.uk













Russia-Ukraine war live: Russia pulls back forces from towns opposite Kherson, says Ukraine


Statement gave only limited details and made no mention of any Ukrainian forces having crossed the Dnipro




www.theguardian.com







> Russia has pulled back forces from towns opposite Kherson, says Ukraine​*Ukraine’s military said Russia had pulled some troops from towns on the opposite bank of the Dnieper River from Kherson city, the first official Ukrainian report of a Russian withdrawal on what is now the main frontline in the south.*
> 
> The statement gave only limited details and made no mention of any Ukrainian forces having crossed the Dnipro. Ukrainian officials also stressed that Russia had intensified shelling across the river, knocking out power again in Kherson where electricity had only begun to be restored nearly three weeks after Russian troops vacated the city and fled across the river.
> 
> Since Russia abandoned Kherson last month, nine months into its invasion of Ukraine, the river now forms the entire southern stretch of the front, Reuters reported.
> 
> Russia has already told civilians to leave towns within 15 km of the river and withdrawn its civilian administration from the city of Nova Kakhovka on the bank. Ukrainian officials have previously said Russia pulled back some artillery near the river to safer positions further away, but until now had stopped short of saying Russian forces were quitting towns.
> 
> “A decrease in the number of Russian soldiers and military equipment is observed in the settlement of Oleshky,” the military said, referring to the town opposite Kherson city, on the far side of a destroyed bridge over the Dnipro.
> 
> “Enemy troops were withdrawn from certain settlements of the Kherson oblast and dispersed in forest strips along the section of the Oleshky - Hola Prystan highway,” it said, referring to a 25-km (15-mile) stretch of road through riverside towns scattered in woods on the bank opposite Kherson city.
> 
> It said most of the Russian troops in the area were recently mobilised reservists, suggesting that Moscow’s best-trained professional troops had already left. Reuters could not independently confirm the report.

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## Horse_Rider

zartosht said:


> “Over 100k ukie officers killed” was accidently admitted by ursula the witch



Is this confirmed that over 100K Ukrainians perished in this war? I think the Russian count is much higher. Can someone else confirm it too?


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## 925boy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Good news everyone. Russia just retreated from the opposite side of the kherson bank.


and Ukraine is about to lose Bakhmut...and then most of the areas around it after.

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## Ali_Baba

925boy said:


> and Ukraine is about to lose Bakhmut...and then most of the areas around it after.



Russia has thrown wave after wave of soldiers at Bakhmut with little success - what have you seen that makes you think Bakhmut will fall to Russia ?
​

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## Paul2

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Good news everyone. Russia just retreated from the opposite side of the kherson bank.



There been a severest shelling in Kherson just a few minutes ago.


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## Ali_Baba

Turkish Laser-Guided Artillery Rockets Could Be Giving Ukraine New Capability​








Turkish Laser-Guided Artillery Rockets Could Be Giving Ukraine New Capability


There are reports that Turkey delivered TRLG-230 artillery rockets along with launchers mounted on Russian-made trucks to Ukrainian forces.




www.thedrive.com

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> It didn't say China supply munition to Russia, it only say Russia selling those brass shell as scrap to China....



I've been told that those shell casings are reusable. Somebody was supposed to collect them after drills, or operation, and send them back to the factory for a refill, where they get narrowed down, a new primer, and charge.

Ukrainians were reusing their 122mm casings that way.

3 lines on the casing, means it's refuse unfit for recharge.


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## Ali_Baba

Winter is coming to war in Ukraine ... and it could be Kyiv's greatest ally​








Winter is coming to war in Ukraine ... and it could be Kyiv's greatest ally


Living in a cold environment and fighting in one demand different skills, as Russia’s newly mobilised troops may be about to discover




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## 925boy

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia has thrown wave after wave of soldiers at Bakhmut with little success


thats what Ukraine did- losing at least 250 wounded soldiers a day recently, dont twist it around on Russia.


Ali_Baba said:


> - what have you seen that makes you think Bakhmut will fall to Russia ?
> ​


what you havent or wont accept? lol- poor Ukraine- it wont be able to hide its lack of manpower soon, afterall it doesnt have that many people in the first place. 

Deelectrification of Ukraine has left so many AFU soldiers on the frontline without ammuntion and war needs- in winter now? well good luck to them. I bet POW #s that Russia captures goes up soon.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598394248583385095

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598393220127657985

hmm whats going on

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598239710249627649


“This is what happens when you do a slow grinding approach”.

You mean giving pacifistic european countries…your former gas/oil customers…a heads up that they need to improve their ammunition industry to longer mow down your mobilised soldiers? 

Such an important lesson…At the cost of what…?….bakhmut in ukraine?

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## F-22Raptor

Seeing reports that Russian forces are retreating from Vasylivka to Tokmak.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I bring relevant information to this thread, but has never gone low to call Ukrainians or anyone else as cockroaches.
> 
> Additionally, Azov was a confirmed Neo-Nazi group. Even the US Congress considered to designating them as a foreign terrorist organization. 👇
> 
> Source: https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/29/europe/ukraine-azov-movement-far-right-intl-cmd/index.html
> 
> "Azov’s military and political wings formally separated in 2016, when the far-right National Corps party was founded. The Azov battalion had by then been integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard.
> 
> An effective fighting force that’s very much involved in the current conflict, *the battalion has a history of neo-Nazi leanings, which have not been entirely extinguished by its integration into the Ukrainian military. *
> 
> *In its heyday as an autonomous militia, the Azov Battalion was associated with White supremacists and neo-Nazi ideology and insignia. It was especially active in and around Mariupol in 2014 and 2015. CNN teams in the area at the time reported Azov’s embrace of neo-Nazi emblems and parap*hernalia.
> 
> After its integration into the Ukrainian National Guard, *amid discussions in the US Congress about designating the Azov Movement a foreign terrorist organization,* Ukraine’s then minister of internal affairs, Arsen Avakov, defended the unit. “The shameful information campaign about the alleged spread of *Nazi ideology* (among Azov members) is a deliberate attempt to discredit the ‘Azov’ unit and the National Guard of Ukraine,” he told the online newspaper Ukrayinska Pravda in 2019."


You call *all* Ukrainans Nazis, so spare us the crocodile tears.
You should clean up your filthy history, before you start to complain about others.

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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> and Ukraine is about to lose Bakhmut...and then most of the areas around it after.


Should we screenshot this?

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> well , then what to do with the nonsignificant and unimportant fact that a healthy chunk of Ukrainian politician and powerbrokers and behind the scene string pullers are Nazi or Nazi sympathizers


The politicians which might be accused of supporting Nazism in Ukraine get maximum 1-2% of the votes in the elections. It is pretty clear that Nazism is a fringe part of Ukraine.
I think you should concentrate on cleaning up your own country, which is infested by religio-fascists.

You still owe me an answer if you think it is fun killing Iranian teenagers
in the same way you thought it was fun that Ukrainan civilians was killed.



khansaheeb said:


> How is US going to get the money back from all this investment and what is the middle and end game? As we have seen in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan it is easy to get in but hard to get out. Last thing NATO want to do is get trapped in its own trap. Russia/China partnership is formidable and the Indians will play along join the Russia-China gang later on , no matter how they are strung along. India's Neo-Nazi nationalism will hit the cross roads and they are no fools and know the turn to take.


The US spends pocket money on disabling Russia.
They are not "in", so there is no need to get "out".

Russia does not have a middle nor an end game and do not know how to get out.
Maybe you did not notice....

China is not paying any attention to Russia at the moment.
They are trying to keep a neutral position and so is India.

Why roll around in pool of puss, if you can avoid it.

Iranian advisers killed aiding Russians in Crimea, says Kyiv​Top security official says Tehran military personnel in occupied areas will be ‘targeted’

Russia-Ukraine war – latest news updates
*See all our Ukraine coverage*





Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine’s national security and defence council: ‘Until our entire territory is free our army cannot stop.’ Photograph: Alessio Mamo/The Guardian


Ukraine’s top security official has confirmed that Iranian military advisers have been killed in Crimea, and warned that any other Iranians on occupied Ukrainian territory in support of Moscow’s invasion would also be targeted.
Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine’s national security and defence council, said Iranians were present in Crimea to help Russia pilot the Shahed-136 armed drones supplied by the Tehran government, but did not say how many Ukraine had killed.

Reports in the Israeli press in October said that 10 were killed because of Ukrainian military strikes in occupied Crimea. Danilov made it clear that any further Iranian military presence would be targeted.
“You shouldn’t be where you shouldn’t be,” Danilov said, in an interview in Kyiv. “They were on our territory. We didn’t invite them here, and if they collaborate with terrorists and participate in the destruction of our nation we must kill them.”


Julian Borger in Kyiv









Iranian advisers killed aiding Russians in Crimea, says Kyiv


Top security official says Tehran military personnel in occupied areas will be ‘targeted’




www.theguardian.com

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I've been told that those shell casings are reusable. Somebody was supposed to collect them after drills, or operation, and send them back to the factory for a refill, where they get narrowed down, a new primer, and charge.
> 
> Ukrainians were reusing their 122mm casings that way.
> 
> 3 lines on the casing, means it's refuse unfit for recharge.


Yes, in most military, shell casing (Up to artillery shell) is reusable. They can be "reloaded" if you have the right presser. It's a lot cheaper than making new ammo that way. Unless the casing is bended or just not serviceable in general condition, they are to be sold as scrap.


----------



## The SC

A lot of clashes everywhere.. but a battle in bakhmut, the second battle after Mariupol, in this SMO..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598433677217767432
Russian losses now at 8,200

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> I guess there is no need for evidence


That is your modus operandi, so why complain about others ?


----------



## khansaheeb

Beny Karachun said:


> But it is a real country by all definitions.
> 
> How exactly is Israel a border between rivals? Israel is small and not even bordering Europe, and no Muslim country rivals the Europeans.
> 
> What Israel "lacks" besides brilliant minds?


You are really pushing the definition of a "country", not so brilliant mind.

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## Beny Karachun

khansaheeb said:


> You are really pushing the definition of a "country", not so brilliant mind.


Well what part of the definition of a country Israel lacks? I'm waiting

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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I bring relevant information to this thread, but has never gone low to call Ukrainians or anyone else as cockroaches.
> 
> Additionally, Azov was a confirmed Neo-Nazi group. Even the US Congress considered to designating them as a foreign terrorist organization. 👇
> 
> Source: https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/29/europe/ukraine-azov-movement-far-right-intl-cmd/index.html
> 
> "Azov’s military and political wings formally separated in 2016, when the far-right National Corps party was founded. The Azov battalion had by then been integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard.
> 
> An effective fighting force that’s very much involved in the current conflict, *the battalion has a history of neo-Nazi leanings, which have not been entirely extinguished by its integration into the Ukrainian military. *
> 
> *In its heyday as an autonomous militia, the Azov Battalion was associated with White supremacists and neo-Nazi ideology and insignia. It was especially active in and around Mariupol in 2014 and 2015. CNN teams in the area at the time reported Azov’s embrace of neo-Nazi emblems and parap*hernalia.
> 
> After its integration into the Ukrainian National Guard, *amid discussions in the US Congress about designating the Azov Movement a foreign terrorist organization,* Ukraine’s then minister of internal affairs, Arsen Avakov, defended the unit. “The shameful information campaign about the alleged spread of *Nazi ideology* (among Azov members) is a deliberate attempt to discredit the ‘Azov’ unit and the National Guard of Ukraine,” he told the online newspaper Ukrayinska Pravda in 2019."


Russia has the full support of the world in de-Nazifying Ukraine. Only other Nazis will oppose this and yes there are plenty of Nazis around in many disguises.

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## Beny Karachun

khansaheeb said:


> Russia has the full support of the world in de-Nazifying Ukraine. Only other Nazis will oppose this and yes there are plenty of Nazis around in many disguises.


Ah yes the typical Islamist terror organization supporter that hate the Jews to death and cheer Hitler for killing Jews is calling other people, including the Jews Nazis. What a brainlet.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is your modus operandi, so why complain about others ?


yeah right know if you add their claims its more than 50 Iranian died in Ukraine and not a single funeral in Iran and everybody knew how we held those funerals.
also after 1 year Russians technician still didn't learn how to feed coordination into Gran-2.

funny your modus operandi is to shut off the Conclusion center in your brain and accept anything come of Ukraine as sacred text , without evidence.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The politicians which might be accused of supporting Nazism in Ukraine get maximum 1-2% of the votes in the elections. It is pretty clear that Nazism is a fringe part of Ukraine.
> I think you should concentrate on cleaning up your own country, which is infested by religio-fascists.
> 
> You still owe me an answer if you think it is fun killing Iranian teenagers
> in the same way you thought it was fun that Ukrainan civilians was killed.


well they are not accused of being Nazi .killing maybe, you must ask the ones who do it and if you want detailed answer you can go to one of the several thread about it and ask that question there .
and do you want me to post the video that Azov leader talk about real power in Ukraine again , it was posted in first Ukraine war thread, and i said its fun watching war in Europe for a change


----------



## khansaheeb

Beny Karachun said:


> Ah yes the typical Islamist terror organization supporter that hate the Jews to death and cheer Hitler for killing Jews is calling other people, including the Jews Nazis. What a brainlet.


You give one example where I have supported "Islamist terrorists" and cheered killing of Jews. What an inferior descendent of an Egyptian you are. I openly criticise Zions and always will. I have nothing against Jews or any other religion. I am convinced that the the devil appears in different people and religion to instigate evil and you are one of them. An evil evil apartheid loving, Palestinian hating , child murdering fanatic.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Iranian advisers killed aiding Russians in Crimea, says Kyiv​Top security official says Tehran military personnel in occupied areas will be ‘targeted’
> 
> Russia-Ukraine war – latest news updates
> *See all our Ukraine coverage*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine’s national security and defence council: ‘Until our entire territory is free our army cannot stop.’ Photograph: Alessio Mamo/The Guardian
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s top security official has confirmed that Iranian military advisers have been killed in Crimea, and warned that any other Iranians on occupied Ukrainian territory in support of Moscow’s invasion would also be targeted.
> Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine’s national security and defence council, said Iranians were present in Crimea to help Russia pilot the Shahed-136 armed drones supplied by the Tehran government, but did not say how many Ukraine had killed.
> 
> Reports in the Israeli press in October said that 10 were killed because of Ukrainian military strikes in occupied Crimea. Danilov made it clear that any further Iranian military presence would be targeted.
> “You shouldn’t be where you shouldn’t be,” Danilov said, in an interview in Kyiv. “They were on our territory. We didn’t invite them here, and if they collaborate with terrorists and participate in the destruction of our nation we must kill them.”
> 
> 
> Julian Borger in Kyiv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iranian advisers killed aiding Russians in Crimea, says Kyiv
> 
> 
> Top security official says Tehran military personnel in occupied areas will be ‘targeted’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


as always the ever absurd claims without a single piece of evidence , some people brainwashed to the extent that they think after 10 month Russians cant feed a simple coordination in a drone they themselves build 
I dare you show evidence of it

and its the crux of Guardian article that you strategically failed to post

“The Iranians keep insisting that they are not suppliers of weapons to the Russian Federation but we need confirmation. *Do we have this confirmation as of today? No we don’t.*” Danilov said. “*We understand these things don’t fly without [people] learning how to operate them, and the Russians don’t have the brains to figure it out themselves … In the modern world you can’t hide anything. It is just a matter of time when it will be made public.”*

He said it was unclear whether Iran had also delivered ballistic missiles to Russia.

“We are trying to answer this question and we’ll do everything we can to make sure it doesn’t happen,” Danilov said. “But if it does happen, it will tell us two things. *First, that Russia has no capability of manufacturing their own missiles,* at least in the numbers that would allow it to continue a large-scale war. *Second, if a country that has been under sanctions since 1979 has a capability of producing such weapons, what kind of sanctions are we talking about? So it raises a big question about enforcement.”*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


there is no doubt this *Mr. Danilov* that this article is based on his *dellusions and dellirums *has lost all rationality and mental capacity

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598423007852052480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598363813115531269

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598363826491215872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598346200285052934

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598292226538639360


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## Hassan Al-Somal

khansaheeb said:


> Russia has the full support of the world in de-Nazifying Ukraine. Only other Nazis will oppose this and yes there are plenty of Nazis around in many disguises.




Well stated! 100% agreed.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598300241601908736

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598314230004039683

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597895192409169920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597906633887473664
You can hear it from the horse's mouth again 👇

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597895930165878786

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597880492015382528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595116970059661313

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## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> Russia has the full support of the world in de-Nazifying Ukraine. Only other Nazis will oppose this and yes there are plenty of Nazis around in many disguises.


Are you sure the russian invasion army is hunting nazi, not washing machines?
Then give all stolen to the respective owners!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598570141905731584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598568582769774593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598424052850368514

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597880492015382528
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595116970059661313


No reason to be panicked
Officers are soldiers in many countries. They are not Leutnant or some higher rank. Otherwise Ukraine army would have 5 million or more personnel. Not 1.2 million.
Von de leyen just quoted an intel report that Ukraine casualties are about 100,000 similar to Russia army. Adding the number of wounded, typically 3 or 5 times higher.


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## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> Are you sure the russian invasion army is hunting nazi, not washing machines?
> Then give all stolen to the respective owners!


Guess they need them to wash their war crimes.

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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> i said its fun watching war in Europe for a change



You really should not think like that.

War stinks where ever it happens. And when it happens in a place that had already known the two most bloody wars in human history , it is something that should worry you as a human being.

If Europe resort to war , where does that leave the rest of the world.

~

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> You really should not think like that.
> 
> War stinks where ever it happens. And when it happens in a place that had already known the two most bloody wars in human history , it is something that should worry you as a human being.
> 
> If Europe resort to war , where does that leave the rest of the world.
> 
> ~


well , EU and USA must not have invaded and destroyed middle east for 2-3 century, were they ever felt sorry for what they did in middle east?
about second part , well thank god they don't have the power to export their wars anyplace else and I'm not that much worried about limited border skirmish like what we see in Ukraine right now, give it time and It will resolve itself, and then we have another cold war and another Russia that awaken from 3 decade of sleep , which result to a tripolar universe , which I believe is better than the unipolar universe that we have right now
sometimes war no matter how brutal it seems ais a blessing in disguise

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL not only the rusky going to lose in Ukraine they will lose transnistria. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598601502146297856


Hack-Hook said:


> well , EU and USA must not have invaded and destroyed middle east for 2-3 decades , were they ever felt sorry for what they did in middle east?
> about second part , well thank god they don't have the power to export their wars anyplace else and I'm not that much worried about limited border skirmish like what we see in Ukraine right now, give it time and It will resolve itself, and then we have another cold war and another Russia that awaken from 3 decade of sleep , which result to a tripolar universe , which I believe is better than the unipolar universe that we have right now
> sometimes war no matter how brutal it seems ais a blessing in disguise



LOL Russia will probably not even exist in the next 30 years let alone be a superpower.

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## Vergennes

Viet said:


> No reason to be panicked
> Officers are soldiers in many countries. They are not Leutnant or some higher rank. Otherwise Ukraine army would have 5 million or more personnel. Not 1.2 million.
> Von de leyen just quoted an intel report that Ukraine casualties are about 100,000 similar to Russia army. Adding the number of wounded, typically 3 or 5 times higher.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597895208582381569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595100027986534400
@jhungary LMAO,why not make it 1 million ? It seems the entire Ukrainian armed forces were killed but the anglo saxon black satanic magic is bringing them back to life.

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597895208582381569
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595100027986534400
> @jhungary LMAO,why not make it 1 million ? It seems the entire Ukrainian armed forces were killed but the anglo saxon black satanic magic is bringing them back to life.


In the end noone will remember how many died, they will only remember who kept what land and won the war. Ukraine could lose 1 or 5 or 10 million and its irrelevant if they are prepared to fight to get what they want. All that will be remembered is that Ukraine got freed. Germany lost only 6 million troops in WW2. And Soviet Union lost maybe 40 million. noone cares, all that mattered was that USSR won and Germany lost. 

USA lost 700,000 troops in the civil war, Turkey lost 80,000 in one battle in WW1. This is Ukraine's battle to see if it will be a real country or not. If I was Ukrainian I'd be prepared to lose 5 million troops at least to secure the future and existence of my country. Ukraine shows a very high tolerance for casualties so far. Thats a wining strategy. 



Hack-Hook said:


> well , EU and USA must not have invaded and destroyed middle east for 2-3 decades , were they ever felt sorry for what they did in middle east?


Nope, they didnt care how many died in the Middle East.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598620950966280192


----------



## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597895208582381569
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595100027986534400
> @jhungary LMAO,why not make it 1 million ? It seems the entire Ukrainian armed forces were killed but the anglo saxon black satanic magic is bringing them back to life.


He should have just claim victory directly and get it over with lol....

400,000 casualty........ then who's fighting the Russian??


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## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> He should have just claim victory directly and get it over with lol....
> 
> 400,000 casualty........ then who's fighting the Russian??



"400K casualties + nearly 400K missing."

"then who's fighting the Russian??" Polish mercenaries

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## The SC

This video is very interesting, it seems that the Russians are applying the lessons they learned from the war in Ukraine by adding more solutions to their tanks that they are working on repairing after withdrawing them from Ukraine..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598377547666173952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598620072817397761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598597453929775104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598592750856929280

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597895208582381569
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595100027986534400
> @jhungary LMAO,why not make it 1 million ? It seems the entire Ukrainian armed forces were killed but the anglo saxon black satanic magic is bringing them back to life.


Putin is making preparations for the second mobi wave in January. If just looking the numbers russian casualties could run to 300,000 men dead and wounded after 10 months war.
You have 320,000 mobi from the first wave. Then adding 250,000 regular Russia land army. Then 100,000 men from the separatists, the Wagners hooligans, rapists, looters. The Chechens from Kadirow. Than the foreign fighters from Syria, Africa.


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## Reashot Xigwin

The world second superpower everyone... 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598594578679996416
Visual confirm:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598624845381586944

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598666470556327942

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598666470556327942


Very strategic. Very good idea and military brilliance


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598671687205142530



Amazing how such small drones were turned away from their initial roles. So small yet are causing so much damage.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598659660495523840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598601097165373441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598445204956237836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598568582769774593

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Well what part of the definition of a country Israel lacks? I'm waiting


Well its a country in a broad sense, and exercises sovereignty. But so does Artsakh and so does Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.

You lack legitimacy amongst Muslims and most catholics. This may not be a problem for you presently as neither have an empire currently. But they will at some point. And the anglo Saxon empire will not be the undisputed global power forever. 

The Vatican will never be ok with a jewish state in the holy lands. In fact Muslims will agree to this before the catholics. 

And this is why I'm ok with Israel, and I tell all people I meet to be ok with Israel, Its just not worth the hassle. It cant be defeated until the Anglo Saxon empire falls. Just as Ukraine cant be defeated with all the help it is getting. US and UK are just so much more powerful than anyone and will be for maybe another 100 years. maybe 70 years. 

Israel has the power to conquer Egypt and all its neighbours, if they really wanted to, it can expel and kill every last Palestinian within a week. And the Israelis would in a heartbeat, problem solved. But the empire says, no, no, no. 

The Anglo Saxon empire will never allow a large & powerful self sufficient Israel, they don't trust the jews, they have given them the little patch in the sand to do the empires bidding and thats it.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Beny Karachun said:


> Well what part of the definition of a country Israel lacks? I'm waiting


A country does not meet the definition of a country in countries that refuse to recognize that it is a country.
A country meets the definition of a country in countries that have recognized it as a country.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> well , EU and USA must not have invaded and destroyed middle east for 2-3 decades , were they ever felt sorry for what they did in middle east?
> about second part , well thank god they don't have the power to export their wars anyplace else and I'm not that much worried about limited border skirmish like what we see in Ukraine right now, give it time and It will resolve itself, and then we have another cold war and another Russia that awaken from 3 decade of sleep , which result to a tripolar universe , which I believe is better than the unipolar universe that we have right now
> sometimes war no matter how brutal it seems ais a blessing in disguise


The EU has never invaded anything.

Middle East has created this problem and you are trying to shift blame on those you harmed.

Maybe the Middle East
* should not have started killing Jews and tried to invade Israel in 1948
* should not have stolen the Suez Canal, causing the 1956 war
* should not have committed acts of war in resulting in the six-day war in 1967.
* should not have started the October War in 1973.
* should not have stolen the Iranian oil industry.
* should not have supported terrorism in Europe.
* should not have invaded Quwait
* should not express hatred against non-muslims
* should show respect for the UN charter
* should follow treaties.

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## Deino

thetutle said:


> Well its a country in a broad sense, and exercises sovereignty. But so does Artsakh and so does Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.
> 
> You lack legitimacy amongst Muslims and most catholics. This may not be a problem for you presently as neither have an empire currently. But they will at some point. And the anglo Saxon empire will not be the undisputed global power forever.
> 
> The Vatican will never be ok with a jewish state in the holy lands. In fact Muslims will agree to this before the catholics.
> 
> And this is why I'm ok with Israel, and I tell all people I meet to be ok with Israel, Its just not worth the hassle. It cant be defeated until the Anglo Saxon empire falls. Just as Ukraine cant be defeated with all the help it is getting. US and UK are just so much more powerful than anyone and will be for maybe another 100 years. maybe 70 years.
> 
> Israel has the power to conquer Egypt and all its neighbours, if they really wanted to, it can expel and kill every last Palestinian within a week. And the Israelis would in a heartbeat, problem solved. But the empire says, no, no, no.
> 
> The Anglo Saxon empire will never allow a large & powerful self sufficient Israel, they don't trust the jews, they have given them the little patch in the sand to do the empires bidding and thats it.





A.P. Richelieu said:


> Israel does not meet the definition of a country in countries that refuse to recognize that Israel is a country.
> Israel meets the definition of a country in countries that have recognized Israel as a country.





Beny Karachun said:


> Well what part of the definition of a country Israel lacks? I'm waiting




*Can we finally STOP these constant plain stupid discussions on Israel, its legal status and Arabs or whatever!???  

If you like, then start a new, separate thread to discuss this, but in the Ukrainian War thread it is OFF-TOPIC!! Period. *

@waz @The Eagle

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## Soldier35

Personnel training Russian mobilized military personnel at a training ground near Kazan. Fire on various types of training targets is not carried out at a distance of 100 to 400 meters with tracer bullets, it is reported that combat experience is taken into account in the preparation.






The mobile group of Ukraine was hit by artillery. The servicemen loaded the mortar into the car, the area was patrolled by a Russian UAV and immediately transmitted the data to the artillery crews. As a result of an artillery strike, a mortar was thrown and one of the soldiers was wounded.






An episode of the battle of the Ukrainian army in Bakhmut. The video shows the use of the American 60-mm mortar M224 LWCMS with a range of fire from 45 to 3500 meters and a rate of fire up to 20 rounds per minute. The mortar was adopted by the US Army in 1977, now being replaced by the M224A1 version. The video also shows a low-altitude flight of a pair of Su-25s and one MiG-29 of the Ukrainian Air Force in the Bakhmut direction. The fighting in the Bakhmut area is now one of the most intense, the Russian army is gradually surrounding the city.






The result of the impact of the Russian Lancet drone on the D-20 howitzer, shooting of Ukraine. The consequences of this strike were shown by a unit of the Ukrainian army. According to a soldier of the 57th separate motorized infantry brigade of Ukraine, only the wheel of the howitzer was damaged. But the operator does not show another part of the howitzer, where all the controls are located.


----------



## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> well , EU and USA must not have invaded and destroyed middle east for 2-3 decades , were they ever felt sorry for what they did in middle east?
> about second part , well thank god they don't have the power to export their wars anyplace else and I'm not that much worried about limited border skirmish like what we see in Ukraine right now, give it time and It will resolve itself, and then we have another cold war and another Russia that awaken from 3 decade of sleep , which result to a tripolar universe , which I believe is better than the unipolar universe that we have right now
> sometimes war no matter how brutal it seems ais a blessing in disguise





Are you trying to justify one evil by another evil ?

So it is now ok that millions of Ukrainians are homeless refugees , cause some other sh*t that happened in the middle east ?


I don't miss the cold war, nor seeing half the countries in Europe enslaved behind the iron curtain.

You should wake up.

If instead of working together to save our planet , nations waste money on weapons , what future you think there is for the next generation ?

I am sure you are familiar with this :


" The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it " . . .


~

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## Beny Karachun

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Israel does not meet the definition of a country in countries that refuse to recognize that Israel is a country.
> Israel meets the definition of a country in countries that have recognized Israel as a country.


Yeah exactly, even though being a country is an objective thing and not a subjective thing, they think simply not recognising Israel makes it not a country.


----------



## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Her claims of Russian casualties are not reliable because she doesn't have access to them and she is also part of the countries waging war on Russia. So anything that Ursula Von Der Leyen states about Russian casualties is a pure propaganda, and we should take a grain of salt with any of her claims with respect to Russian casualties.
> 
> With respect to Ukrainian casualties, the EU that she is the president is the main backer of Ukraine, US being the other one. Therefore, she has full access to Ukrainian casualties. So when she admitted 100,000 Ukrainian military officers' casualties, that should tell you she is referring to the data that she has access to.
> 
> It is also very possible that she is downplaying the Ukrainian casualties because she doesn't want to say anything that Russians can use as a propaganda. So she is most likely hiding the real casualties - meaning the real death and wounded of Ukrainians must be way above 500,000. And this is the reason why the Ukrainians are in their 6th or 7th mobilization phase.
> 
> Let us not forget the Ukrainians have increased the age of military service to 60 years of age. And one should ask himself (or herself) why would they need men who are 60 years of age. The only explanation is the attrition rate must be very high.
> 
> So Mr @jhungary, you and others can believe in your fairy tales, but as we've seen, the truth has strange way of revealing itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The EU is in damage control now.
> 
> But just like I told your friend @jhungary, truth has strange way of revealing itself. The death of 100,000 Ukrainian military officers has been admitted by the EU president, And this proves why Ukrainians are in their 6th or 7th mobilization phase.


The Europeans aren't reliable, but you 100% believe the parts of the information that go with your confirmation bias.

Got it. 👍👍👍👍


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## Viet

The russians, the wagners assaulting Bakhmut since how long? 6 months? whatever the costs. Terrible sacrifice. How close they come to Bakhmut? 200 meter from the city outer border.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598760191259967501

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598766874652995584

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598773804465065987


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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL not only the rusky going to lose in Ukraine they will lose transnistria.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598601502146297856
> 
> 
> LOL Russia will probably not even exist in the next 30 years let alone be a superpower.


who knew maybe , if they continued as they did for last 3 decade, I'd agreed with you , if this war waken them from their death slumber , I'm not so sure

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The EU has never invaded anything.
> 
> Middle East has created this problem and you are trying to shift blame on those you harmed.
> 
> Maybe the Middle East
> * should not have started killing Jews and tried to invade Israel in 1948
> * should not have stolen the Suez Canal, causing the 1956 war
> * should not have committed acts of war in resulting in the six-day war in 1967.
> * should not have started the October War in 1973.
> * should not have stolen the Iranian oil industry.
> * should not have supported terrorism in Europe.
> * should not have invaded Quwait
> * should not express hatred against non-muslims
> * should show respect for the UN charter
> * should follow treaties.


European satisfied
the decade comment was a mistake that fixed into century, it was century . and in 1948 and prior it was Israel terror group that start the killing
Suez canal is not your property , it pass through Egyptian land and belong to them
1967 started by Israel
1973 started because Israel occupied Egypt and Syria land
the oil belonged to Iran not England, it was not your property , and England refused to compensate Iran after devaluation of pound
don't recall supporting terrorism in Europe on other hand there are hundreds of case of Europeans committing terror acts and supporting terrorist group around the world .
you yourself propped the one who attacked Kuwait and it was 1990 not 2003 and certainly didn't happen by Afghanistan
the Europeans non-Muslim first stop express hatred against anybody else
good then show respect by condemning Israel for occupying its neighbors and throw Palestinian out of their home and don't let them come back
that is something you must follow , as I recall , its you guys that don't follow treaties whenever you don't like it


its you who always export your wars to other countries , now having fun with another war in Europe but this time you are so week and can't export it to others

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Are you trying to justify one evil by another evil ?
> 
> So it is now ok that millions of Ukrainians are homeless refugees , cause some other sh*t that happened in the middle east ?
> 
> 
> I don't miss the cold war, nor seeing half the countries in Europe enslaved behind the iron curtain.
> 
> You should wake up.
> 
> If instead of working together to save our planet , nations waste money on weapons , what future you think there is for the next generation ?


no I point to them that an eye for an eye and an ear for an ear , they can have fun with the dishes they served others .
ok or not ok is not the case here , the case is did they care that their wars in last century resulted in tens of millions of middle eastern become refuge and homeless ? if they don't care why I must care ?
half of them slaved behind the iron curtain , another half slaves on the other side of the curtain , how you explain the practices and policies that this guy implement in the so called cradle of freedom in those era . so don't tell me USA and Europe were holier than Russians and Chinese








sammuel said:


> If instead of working together to save our planet , nations waste money on weapons , what future you think there is for the next generation ?
> 
> I am sure you are familiar with this :
> 
> 
> " The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it " . . .


working together to save the planet , good sentiment , but let be honest why it only apply when its the others that must work with us, but we never find it in our heart to forgive others .
have you ever stopped searched for and punishing 90+ year old grandpas who once were teenage guard of some camps in the third Reich era and didn't even knew what happen inside the camps ?

by the way Galadriel said that , but did it stop her from sending elven army to war ?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598705291125673984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598585057077334016

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598601097165373441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598812655313100801


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598817888818802688


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598671687205142530
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing how such small drones were turned away from their initial roles. So small yet are causing so much damage.






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598808690748006419

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598806246823428096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598805837073584129

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598737381787668511

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598737411499884544


----------



## S10

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 902441
> 
> 
> 
> RIP Russia
> 
> The B-21 Raider


So is Ukraine getting this or is US joining the fighting? Otherwise, what's the relevance here?

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598737381787668511
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598737411499884544



What a load of BS: Here's the interview

*NV: How big are their human losses?*

Kuzyk: They are colossal. They don't even count bodies. The fields, the woods in front of the positions are all littered with corpses. I watched them: they dragged their people back to bury them, take off their warm sweaters, and start to put it on themselves. But, nevertheless, each assault group has a grenade launcher, a machine gunner, and their machine guns more or less perform their tasks. They have herds.









Continuous assaults, water-logged trenches, and cold: How Ukraine is holding the line in Bakhmut


For more than six months, Russian troops – from elite units to released criminals from the Wagner Private Military Company – have been fighting with the stubbornness of idiots, as if against a wall, for the defensive positions of Ukrainian troops near the once 70,000-person city of Bakhmut...




news.yahoo.com

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## khansaheeb

Beny Karachun said:


> Well what part of the definition of a country Israel lacks? I'm waiting


It's not a country but a Cuckoo illegitimately laid by the UK colonialists. You are just renegade Egyptians who have come back in a circle thousands of years later. Palestine is not your country so go back to Egypt where you belong.



sammuel said:


> You really should not think like that.
> 
> War stinks where ever it happens. And when it happens in a place that had already known the two most bloody wars in human history , it is something that should worry you as a human being.
> 
> If Europe resort to war , where does that leave the rest of the world.
> 
> ~


in a better place?

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## Beny Karachun

Vergennes said:


> @jhungary LMAO,why not make it 1 million ? It seems the entire Ukrainian armed forces were killed but the anglo saxon black satanic magic is bringing them back to life.


Nah bro it's the biolab pegions reviving them not the black magic

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> European satisfied
> the decade comment was a mistake that fixed into century, it was century . and in 1948 and prior it was Israel terror group that start the killing
> Suez canal is not your property , it pass through Egyptian land and belong to them
> 1967 started by Israel
> 1973 started because Israel occupied Egypt and Syria land
> the oil belonged to Iran not England, it was not your property , and England refused to compensate Iran after devaluation of pound
> don't recall supporting terrorism in Europe on other hand there are hundreds of case of Europeans committing terror acts and supporting terrorist group around the world .
> you yourself propped the one who attacked Kuwait and it was 1990 not 2003 and certainly didn't happen by Afghanistan
> the Europeans non-Muslim first stop express hatred against anybody else
> good then show respect by condemning Israel for occupying its neighbors and throw Palestinian out of their home and don't let them come back
> that is something you must follow , as I recall , its you guys that don't follow treaties whenever you don't like it
> 
> 
> its you who always export your wars to other countries , now having fun with another war in Europe but this time you are so week and can't export it to others


Start another thread and I will counter your lies.

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> the decade comment was a mistake that fixed into century, it was century . and in 1948 and prior it was Israel terror group that start the killing







As you can see Arabs started terror attacks 17 years prior to Jewish retaliation



Hack-Hook said:


> 1967 started by Israel


Nope, Egyptians blocked the Straits of Tiran, effectively making a naval blockade on Israel, which is an act of war. Also their "We will destroy Israel soon" shouts weren't helping.



Hack-Hook said:


> 1973 started because Israel occupied Egypt and Syria land


Nope, Israel got it in a defensive war. It's legitimate Israeli land.


Hack-Hook said:


> don't recall supporting terrorism in Europe on other hand there are hundreds of case of Europeans committing terror acts and supporting terrorist group around the world .


Not only supporting but committing those attacks. All are Muslims.



Hack-Hook said:


> then show respect by condemning Israel for occupying its neighbors and throw Palestinian out of their home and don't let them come back


Europe is condemning Israel right and left, all of the "human rights" groups that act against Israel are European funded and organised. 

They're wrong for it though, because Palestinians deserve to be thrown out, because they started all the wars against Israel.

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## sammuel

khansaheeb said:


> go back to Egypt where you belong.




Seriously ? Not this again :

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## Beny Karachun

sammuel said:


> Seriously ? Not this again :


Come on where's the

~


----------



## khansaheeb

Ukraine war latest: Moscow and US suggest talks to end war are possible; blow for Putin as public support collapses


Biden and the Kremlin hint peace talks are possible; ex-diplomat warns trying to take back Crimea would be "dangerous for all of us"; listen to the Daily podcast while you scroll, with Deborah Haynes describing life in Ukraine with constant blackouts.




news.sky.com




Live
Ukraine war latest: Moscow and US suggest talks to end war are possible; blow for Putin as public support collapses​Biden and the Kremlin hint peace talks are possible; ex-diplomat warns trying to take back Crimea would be "dangerous for all of us"; listen to the Daily podcast while you scroll, with Deborah Haynes describing life in Ukraine with constant blackouts.


Key points​
Russia 'open to talks', Kremlin says View post- after Biden signals conditions for talks with Putin View post
Where do things stand on negotiations between Russia and Ukraine? View post
Significant expansion of graves in Mariupol, satellite images show View post
Ukrainian attempts to retake Crimea will be 'really dangerous for all of us', ex-diplomat warns View post
Captured documents reveal Putin's invasion plans - including plot to annex Ukraine by August View post
Live reporting by Emily Mee. Updates from Deborah Haynes in Ukraine and Diana Magnay in Moscow


Finnish PM says Europe is 'not strong enough' on Russia​Sanna Marin has argued European countries are not doing enough to deter Russia and are relying on the US. 
During a visit to Australia, she said: "I must be brutally honest with you, Europe isn't strong enough right now.
"We would be in trouble without the United States."




Finland, which shares a long border with Russia, is set to join NATO along with its Nordic neighbour Sweden.
It is true that the US has provided the most military assistance to Ukraine by a long way, committing $18.6bn in support in total.
The European Union is the second largest donor, followed by the UK.
The Finnish prime minister continued: "The United States has given a lot of weapons, a lot of financial aid, a lot of humanitarian aid to Ukraine and Europe isn't strong enough yet."
She added that Europe must make sure it is "building those capabilities when it comes to European defence, European defence industry, and making sure that we could cope in different kinds of situations."

Copy link
11h ago10:45
Likelihood of meaningful talks with Russia is 'between slim and none', says Ukrainian official​As we mentioned in our previous post, it seems incredibly unlikely for now that Russia and Ukraine will sit down for talks - and this has been further backed up by a Ukrainian official just now.
Yuriy Sak, adviser to Ukraine's defence minister, was responding to the possibility of talks between the US and Russia and said it is "normal that our partners are looking for a way to find a solution".
But he told Sky News the "likelihood of meaningful negotiations with the Kremlin is between slim and none" - and that Ukraine will therefore need to defeat its opponent on the battlefield. 
Ukraine's position remains that Moscow will need to start withdrawing its troops and "this is not going to change", Mr Sak said.
"That has been our non-negotiable pre-condition for any talks, pretty much since the first day of this large-scale invasion," he said. 
The official added that Ukraine must first "restore our territorial integrity within the internationally recognised borders" before negotiations can happen. 
This suggests Ukraine is still set on taking back territories occupied by Russia since 2014, including Crimea and parts of the Donbas region, as these are internationally recognised as part of Ukraine. 

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-...lenskyy-12541713?postid=4990796#liveblog-body


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## khansaheeb

Russia accuses US of 'direct' participation in Ukraine war, but Lavrov open to talks


Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov accused the U.S. of being "directly" involved in the war in Ukraine but said Moscow was open to talks.




www.foxnews.com





​Russia accuses US of 'direct' participation in Ukraine war, but Lavrov open to talks​Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says Russia is open to talks with US despite pulling out of nuclear New START Treaty talks​




By Caitlin McFall | Fox News

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Russia attacks civilian targets in Ukraine as winter sets in​Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov accused the U.S. and NATO on Thursday of "direct" participation in its war in Ukraine but claimed Moscow was still open to talks. 
In an annual news conference from Moscow, the foreign minister began his comments by defending Russia’s barrage of missile fire on civilian targets like Ukraine's energy sector and attempted to claim it was a defense tactic to halt Western arms. 
"We disable energy facilities [in Ukraine] that allow you [the West] to pump lethal weapons into Ukraine to kill Russians," Lavrov said, according to a translation by Reuters. 








U.S. Air Force Staff Sgt. Cody Brown, right, with the 436th Aerial Port Squadron, checks pallets of 155 mm shells ultimately bound for Ukraine, April 29, 2022, at Dover Air Force Base, Delaware. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon, File)
*PENTAGON AWARDS RAYTHEON $1.2B BID TO SUPPLY UKRAINE WITH ADVANCED SURFACE-TO-AIR MISSILE SYSTEMS*
"So don't say that the U.S. and NATO are not participants in this war - you are directly participating," he continued. "Including not only with the supply of weapons, but also with the training of personnel – you train the [Ukrainian] military on your territory."
Lavrov was referring to international efforts to train up Ukrainian servicemen with NATO tactics in nations like Britain, Germany and Italy – comments which were made after reports surfaced this week suggesting that Washington may expand its training of Ukrainian soldiers on U.S. bases in Germany.
Russia has been accused by NATO of using winter as a "weapon of war" by forcing Ukrainian citizens to endure increasingly harsh conditions without electricity, heat or running water as the cold months set in.




Ukrainian troops ride upon a repaired Russian tank in a wooded area outside the city on Sept. 26 2022, in Kharkiv, Ukraine. (Paula Bronstein /Getty Images)
*ZELENSKYY WARNS RUSSIA IS 'PLANNING SOMETHING' IN SOUTH WHILE UPPING AGGRESSION IN NORTHERN UKRAINE*
The West has further claimed that Moscow is targeting civilian populations as a way to try and force Kyiv to capitulate as Russian forces have seen significant losses on the front lines. 
It remains unclear what the general sense in Russia is when it comes to Moscow’s deadly war in Ukraine, though cities across Russia have canceled their Christmas and New Year’s celebrations in recognition of the costly war. 

Western estimates regarding the toll that the war has taken on Russian troops suggest that they have seen at least 80,000 casualties since the war began in February.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said he will not engage in peace talks until Russia completely withdraws all troops from Ukraine.
Diminished relations between Russia and the West remains a major geopolitical concern, particularly after Moscow pulled out of scheduled talks with Washington this week on the nuclear New START Treaty.




Sitting next to South Korea President Yoon Suk Yeol, left, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov listens during the ASEAN Australia-New Zealand Trade Area in Phnom Penh, Cambodia on Nov. 13, 2022. (AP Photo/Heng Sinith, File)
*CLICK HERE TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP*
Lavrov on Thursday suggested that Russia remains open to talks with the U.S. and NATO member nations, but said it was "naive" of the U.S. to think it would engage in nuclear talks at this time. 
"For now we aren't hearing any meaningful ideas," he said. "If there will be proposals from the president [Biden] and from other members of his administration, we'll never shy away from contacts."
Caitlin McFall is a Reporter at Fox News Digital covering Politics, U.S. and World news.

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 902441
> 
> 
> 
> RIP Russia
> 
> The B-21 Raider


Russia is a poor version of USSR. Won’t ever return. Building such bombers require advanced chips and immense computer powers. How to get them under western sanctions? Putin agents even try to buy modern western fridges to steal their microcontrollers inside. Had USSR not invade Afghanistan who knows USSR would have survived. Now Putin makes the same mistake with Ukraine.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> You don't need to go there to know they are serious are the Ukrainian.
> 
> around 30 million of Ukrainian was offered a way-out including Zelenskyy back in Feb this year, only 10 million left, and about 1/3 had returned. I mean, back then they don't even know if Kyiv are going to get overran. If you are okay to live in a warzone, in the cold no less (Feb still cold in Ukraine) do you think you will leave if it's now only the cold but no war to be seen??
> 
> People want to leave had left already, I mean those people who stay are quite diehard. They don't get zapped just because Russia keep bombing their electricity grid. On the other hand, if push comes to shove, they can evacuate the entire Eastern Ukraine and keep them in western part, there are 3 nuclear plants generating enough power to power half the Ukraine which mean those amendity are almost certainly guaranteed.


Considering the U.S., Europeans, South Korea, Japan and other countries are providing generators of all kinds from big to small that can bring power to hospitals, government institutions and banks to homes and businesses. Diesel to gas generators of different varieties. Obviously those types of generators can't be use for indoors. There are the electric versions of the power station that can be used safely indoors and have solar panels to recharge the power station and use it for night time to warm themselves with a electric heater as well as charge their phones and so on. Ukrainians able to get through the winter with the technology and equipment provided, the Russians already lost another weapon to use. 






Not to mention the countries providing transformers and other electrical related equipment to replace damage or destroyed ones.



jhungary said:


> There are several report floating around within the US intelligence community stating that ATACAMS are already provided to Ukraine via Turkey or Romania and indirectly by the US.
> 
> The reason why the Russian hollow out their airbase even as far as Crimea is a testament of something they scare of, and I don't think there are anything other than SF group can reach that far other than ATACAMS


Makes me think of using special forces to hit Russian bombers based far in Russia with long range loitering munitions from a distance.

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## Oldman1

Vergennes said:


> What a load of BS: Here's the interview
> 
> *NV: How big are their human losses?*
> 
> Kuzyk: They are colossal. They don't even count bodies. The fields, the woods in front of the positions are all littered with corpses. I watched them: they dragged their people back to bury them, take off their warm sweaters, and start to put it on themselves. But, nevertheless, each assault group has a grenade launcher, a machine gunner, and their machine guns more or less perform their tasks. They have herds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Continuous assaults, water-logged trenches, and cold: How Ukraine is holding the line in Bakhmut
> 
> 
> For more than six months, Russian troops – from elite units to released criminals from the Wagner Private Military Company – have been fighting with the stubbornness of idiots, as if against a wall, for the defensive positions of Ukrainian troops near the once 70,000-person city of Bakhmut...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com


The thing is doesn't matter if the Ukrainians had suffered far more losses compared to Russia, which I doubt it. But lets say they did, history has shown that it doesn't always factor into victory. The Russians killed millions of Afghans during the Soviet-Afghan war and lost. The U.S. killed tens of thousands of Taliban compared to our own losses, but we still lost the war. Same for killing Vietcong and North Vietnamese Army in hundreds of thousands compared to our casualties but still lost.

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> Nope, Egyptians blocked the Straits of Tiran, effectively making a naval blockade on Israel, which is an act of war. Also their "We will destroy Israel soon" shouts weren't helping.


west of teiran island blocked which was inside Egyptian territorial water , you could pass east of it



Beny Karachun said:


> Nope, Israel got it in a defensive war. It's legitimate Israeli land.


keeping it was illegitimate after establishment of UN according to UN



Beny Karachun said:


> Europe is condemning Israel right and left, all of the "human rights" groups that act against Israel are European funded and organised.


government

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> west of teiran island blocked which was inside Egyptian territorial water , you could pass east of it


Nope, they blockaded Israel and got ****ed as a result like they deserved



Hack-Hook said:


> keeping it was illegitimate after establishment of UN according to UN


UN and their oil money funded *** can suck our nuts lol


----------



## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> They're wrong for it though, because Palestinians deserve to be thrown out, because they started all the wars against Israel.


in 1948 neighboring countries started war not Palestinian who were thrown out.
and as Israel is considered occupier , you must expect resistance



Beny Karachun said:


> Nope, they blockaded Israel and got ****ed as a result like they deserved
> 
> 
> UN and their oil money funded *** can suck our nuts lol


only in their territorial water

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> in 1948 neighboring countries started war not Palestinian who were thrown out.
> and as Israel is considered occupier , you must expect resistance
> 
> 
> only in their territorial water


Because Palestine was never a country lol, Palestinians volunteered into Arab countries and got ****ed and now they cry. And up until 1967 West Bank was controlled by Jordan and Gaza by Egypt, not Palestine. You know why? Because Palestine never existed as a country.



Hack-Hook said:


> only in their territorial water


Which blocked Israel from the rest of the world, creating a naval blockade.


----------



## TopGun786

S10 said:


> So is Ukraine getting this or is US joining the fighting? Otherwise, what's the relevance here?


Exactly what I thought after seeing his post.


----------



## Viet

Russia is super angry. The EU goes ahead with oil price cap of $60 per barrel. That will crush Russia gov budget for military spendings. Russia GDP sinks from $2.3 trillion, before the war with Ukraine in 2013, to $1.6 trillion this year and will sink further in coming years.






__





ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.







www.zeit.de


----------



## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> As you can see Arabs started terror attacks 17 years prior to Jewish retaliation


sure but this not according to me but according to French consulate about 1920 Quds riot
1-
*While the first half of the procession was passing through the Jaffa Gate, the riot began between Christaki's pharmacy and the Credit Lyonnais. Available sources do not clarify the exact trigger, and it is arguable that more than one event functioned as a catalyst. In the vicinity of the Arab rally, some Zionists were listening to the speeches. It is likely some belonged to the self-defence force organized by Vladimir Jabotinsky, by this time already enlisting six hundred troops performing military drills on a daily basis." Already in early March, Jabotinsky was working to inflame the atmosphere, and he began to publicly predict a pogrom. Some evidence suggests that these Jewish spectators were quite provocative. Allegedly, a Jew pushed an Arab carrying a nationalist flag, and he tried to spit on the banner and on the Arab crowd. According to testimony gathered by the French consul, some young Jews standing near Jaffa Gate attacked some Arabs after the speech delivered by Muhammad Darwish of the Arab Club (one of the Christian-Muslim associations). All of these reports suggest only Jewish provocation; however,* it is possible, though unreported, that Arab activities also triggered the riots.

2-
and battle of Tal Hai was part of franco Syrian war not a sectarian terror attack

3-
*Jaffa Riot started by a violent attack between two rival Jewish group , then Arabs pulled into it , it didn't start by Arabs it started by violence between Jewish communist party and rival socialist Ahdut HaAvoda group *(honestly! jew started communism and then started different sect of it ?) When the two processions met, a fistfight erupted.[4] Police attempted to disperse the about 50 communist protestors, and Muslims and Christians intervened to help the police against the Jews. A general disturbance quickly ensued and spread to the southern part of town.

4-
1929 riot
Joseph Klausner who formed the _Pro–Wailing Wall Committee_ helped organize several demonstrations, beginning on 14 August 1929 when 6,000 youths marched around the wall of the old city of Jerusalem.[21]

On Thursday, 15 August, during the Jewish fast of Tisha B'Av, several hundred members of Klausner's right-wing group – described by Professor Michael J. Cohen as "brawny youths with staves"[23] – marched to the Western Wall shouting "the Wall is ours," raised the Jewish national flag, sang Hatikvah (the Jewish anthem).[11] The group included members of Vladimir Jabotinsky's Revisionist Zionism movement Betar youth organization, under the leadership of Jeremiah Halpern. Rumors circulated among the Arabs that the procession had attacked local residents and cursed the name of the Prophet Muhammad.[24][25][26][27][21] The Shaw report later concluded that the crowd was peaceful and allegations that the crowd were armed with iron bars were not correct, but that there may have been threatening cries made by some "undesirable elements" in the Jewish procession.


well i look at 4 first incident , 2 actually started by jew , one was part of Franco Syrian war and another started by jews a in form some undesired radical element in Jewish community started to insult holy prophet and use let just say provocative slogans



Beny Karachun said:


> Because Palestine was never a country lol, Palestinians volunteered into Arab countries and got ****ed and now they cry. And up until 1967 West Bank was controlled by Jordan and Gaza by Egypt, not Palestine. You know why? Because Palestine never existed as a country.
> 
> 
> Which blocked Israel from the rest of the world, creating a naval blockade.


no they left battlefield area and then refused return to their homer . also in area like Quds they literally being killed or thrown out of their home in some area of the city without participating in the war or leaving their homes .


Beny Karachun said:


> Which blocked Israel from the rest of the world, creating a naval blockade.


it didn't block Israel from the rest of the world and you very well knew why

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Deino

Beny Karachun said:


> Well what part of the definition of a country Israel lacks? I'm waiting





Hack-Hook said:


> in 1948 neighboring countries started war not Palestinian who were thrown out.
> and as Israel is considered occupier , you must expect resistance
> 
> 
> only in their territorial water




*Guys!! Can you simply stop with these off-topic BS post? This is the Ukrainian war thread and the Israel/Arab conflict is irrelevant and off topic… so from now on I will negatively rate each of your post until you stop. Simply start a new one but stop here.*

@waz @The Eagle

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## Beny Karachun

Deino said:


> *Guys!! Can you simply stop with these off-topic BS post? This is the Ukrainian war thread and the Israel/Arab conflict is irrelevant and off topic… so from now on I will negatively rate each of your post until you stop. Simply start a new one but stop here.*
> 
> @waz @The Eagle


I mean I got 40 negative ratings so I don't care but I'll stop promise lol


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598995158091300864

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599016455038676993

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## Reashot Xigwin

"We want a multipolar world order." Said a Cu*t

Meanwhile the other polar:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598065115064324096


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russian troops mutiny as conscripts storm off military base and head home in protest​








Russian troops mutiny as conscripts storm off military base - video


Russian conscripts appear to be in open revolt as footage emerges of recruits marching off a military base in the city of Kazan.




www.express.co.uk

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599045255453900801


----------



## jhungary

If you want to know how detached Putin is with the current war in Ukraine, go no further than this






He probably thinks he is winning....

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## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> If you want to know how detached Putin is with the current war in Ukraine, go no further than this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He probably thinks he is winning....



With a culture of institutionalized lying within the Russian armed forces from the bottom to the top I wouldn't be surprised if Putin isn't aware of the real situation on the ground.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> "We want a multipolar world order." Said a Cu*t
> 
> Meanwhile the other polar:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598065115064324096


That’s the words of Sergei Lavrov, the famous liar. He wants with China “a new democratic world order”. Turns out he wants a world order of rapists.


----------



## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> With a culture of institutionalized lying within the Russian armed forces from the bottom to the top I wouldn't be surprised if Putin isn't aware of the real situation on the ground.


Or he is just dull...lol.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599026543119900673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599023533639667712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599031231324119041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598989322388021248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598969044882706433

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> That’s the words of Sergei Lavrov, the famous liar. He wants with China “a new democratic world order”. Turns out he wants a world order of rapists.


I am pretty sure Chinese Future in Chinese mind does not include Russia in it......

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC




----------



## khansaheeb

Oldman1 said:


> The thing is doesn't matter if the Ukrainians had suffered far more losses compared to Russia, which I doubt it. But lets say they did, history has shown that it doesn't always factor into victory. The Russians killed millions of Afghans during the Soviet-Afghan war and lost. The U.S. killed tens of thousands of Taliban compared to our own losses, but we still lost the war. Same for killing Vietcong and North Vietnamese Army in hundreds of thousands compared to our casualties but still lost.


What happened to the denial that you "lost" in Afghanistan? Honesty is the best policy through which to learn.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Eh.... Better than nothing, I guess.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598624878768271360

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## Reashot Xigwin

Ukrainian forces landing on the left bank

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599126881164402688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599128941440118786

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Vergennes said:


> That's rich coming from someone like you who keeps ranting about jews and "gay westerners" on this thread on many occasions.



Are you saying West does support gays? What is offensive in West supporting Gays. It should be taken as a compliment than an insult.



Ali_Baba said:


> Turkish Laser-Guided Artillery Rockets Could Be Giving Ukraine New Capability​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish Laser-Guided Artillery Rockets Could Be Giving Ukraine New Capability
> 
> 
> There are reports that Turkey delivered TRLG-230 artillery rockets along with launchers mounted on Russian-made trucks to Ukrainian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



Turkiye should attack and annex Crimea from the South.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Ali_Baba

Interesting video shows how difficult it is to make artillery shells :






some of is being made by this factory is landing on Russian heads right now!!


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Ukrainian forces landing on the left bank
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599126881164402688
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599128941440118786




Karlsson på Taket should be in the airborne troops.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599145281538641920

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aziqbal

Russia has truly lost this war 

I keep thinking that a Russian Winter Counter Attack is coming like WWII at Stalingrad 

but it seems like Ukrainians are just too tough and NATO has every Russian move covered 

there was 2 x Mig31 that were flying from Belarus to Russia and NATO has been tracking their flight path for months 

they then use this info to ambush them 

too much data too much information and too much surveillance by NATO 

NATO knows every Russian BTG in Ukraine and how much strength each group has and even which direction they are headed in and who is the commander and even the whereabout of these commanders 

they are eavesdropping on Russian comms and working out where they will push next and this information is relayed to Ukraine in a live form which allows them to engage Russians where they are expecting them 

Russian simply cannot surprise Ukraine anymore from any front because of the overwhelming information provided by NATO 

Russia should call it a day and withdraw its game over

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599045026683949057

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Beny Karachun

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Eh.... Better than nothing, I guess.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598624878768271360


After Ukraine's UN votes against Israel they should be lucky to get anything at all.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599045026683949057


So now we have another Nazi comment. 
And You are angry that you behaviour gets criticized,
How hypocritical, dear Ivan…

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## Hassan Al-Somal

In the words of the Ukrainian POWs 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599082033124626432

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## Hassan Al-Somal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> So now we have another Nazi comment.
> And You are angry that you behaviour gets criticized,
> How hypocritical, dear Ivan…



The Neo-Nazi views of the Ukrainian armed groups such as Azov is pretty much documented. This is not something that is up for a debate.





__





Loading…






www.washingtonpost.com













Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem


As Ukraine's struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law...




www.reuters.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599185230237032449

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599183427093155842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599110956092600321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599109700636708864

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2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598978271432974336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598993761052241920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598978731653353472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598976681837883392

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3


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599166676909510657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599142449905299458

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Reashot Xigwin

Beny Karachun said:


> After Ukraine's UN votes against Israel they should be lucky to get anything at all.


And this will makes Ukraine vote for Israel🇮🇱 more how exactly?


----------



## Beny Karachun

Reashot Xigwin said:


> And this will makes Ukraine vote for Israel🇮🇱 more how exactly?


I think you're asking the wrong question. How is voting against Israel going to make Israel give Ukraine weapons? Israel was giving Ukraine supplies, many Israelis fight on Ukraine's side, gave Ukraine information about the Iranian drones, set up the first field hospital in Ukraine while all other countries were calling their citizens to evacuate Ukraine and probably did more behind the scenes 

In turn they vote against us in the UN, twice, that's very hypocritical. 

Ukraine voted against Israel before the war and during the war and expects Israel to give it air defenses and other advanced weaponry. 

Hell I'm half Ukrainian and I view it asan obvious spit on Israel's face.


----------



## 925boy

Ukrainian military casualties are big trouble for Biden​ 
Ukraine has likely lost 100,000 soldiers who won’t readily be replaced while US arms deliveries are depleting stocks and exposing security holes in Asia 


by Stephen Bryen December 1, 2022 






A Ukrainian cemetery with recently buried war dead. Estimates have put Ukrainian casualties at over 100,000. Image: Twitter 

In a shocking statement that has now been withdrawn, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen wrote that Ukraine has lost 100,000 soldiers and 20,000 civilians in the Ukraine war. 
This conforms to comments made by US Joint Chief of Staff head General Mark Milley, who in a speech at a conference hosted by New York’s Economic Club said that more than 100,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or wounded in the war and that the number of troop casualties is probably the “same” for Ukraine’s army.
Ukraine’s heavy casualties are a signal that Washington’s de facto war with Russia is in trouble. President Joe Biden has to change direction or face a national security crisis that could end his presidency.
Ukraine may look as if it were winning. The truth is the opposite because Ukraine is running out of manpower it cannot replace. It is losing by attrition on the battlefield and, with the Russians systematically destroying its infrastructure, millions of Ukrainians have fled abroad. It is unlikely the country could recover even if the war should end tomorrow.
Meanwhile, Russia’s manpower problems are less severe. Moscow has been replenishing its supply of front-line troops through an unpopular conscription program at home that has now been extended to the territories in Ukraine that it occupies.
Russia’s proxy army, the Wagner Group, also has been significantly enlarged from 8,000 last April to nearly 40,000 now. Many Wagner Group fighters have been recruited from Russian prisons and some have been brought in from other countries, especially the Middle East and Africa. 



Members of the Wagner Group in Syria. Photo: Twitter
Ukrainian estimates the number of Wagner Group casualties at between 800 and 1,000; others put them at 3,000.
Among the most stunning bits of information that have recently surfaced, reports in Poland say that around 1,200 Polish “volunteers” have been killed in Ukraine. These appear to have been drawn from Poland’s active land army, which consists of three main divisions. 
The Polish army is composed of 61,200 soldiers and support personnel. It is unlikely Poland will commit many more troops given the high casualties and the risk that Russia will strike Poland in retaliation.
The most recent estimate of the Ukraine land army’s fighting strength is 198,000 troops. Given the alarmingly high casualty rates, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is facing a genuine crisis if the war drags on much longer.
Russia has recently focused on destroying Ukraine’s critical infrastructure and Ukrainian command posts, and equally on liquidating to the degree possible Ukraine’s high-value weapons, particularly precision rocket systems such as HIMARS, air defense units and Ukrainian artillery.
The battlefield casualties on the Ukrainian side appear to be largely the result of Russian heavy artillery that is being coordinated by Russian drones, most of them variants of the Orlan-10.



An Orlan-10 drone. Photo: Wikipedia
Russia has also made progress by improving its command and control and leadership in the field. The Russians pulled back strategically from Kherson in order to preserve manpower and organize better defensive positions.
Most of the heavy fighting now appears to be taking place in and around Bakhmut, where Russian and local troops seem to be making slow but steady progress. That battle is chewing up Ukrainian reserves and has cost Ukraine large amounts of ammunition that cannot readily be replaced.
The Europeans have made clear that their resources have diminished to a critical level and that continuing to supply Ukraine may not be possible. The US is also facing an empty cupboard, especially regarding important high-tech systems such as HIMARS, antitank weapons such as Javelin and MANPADS including Stinger.
The US also is short on conventional ammunition, including 155mm shells. Worse still, the emptying of vital war stocks has delayed deliveries of supplies to Taiwan and created vacuum opportunities for China should it choose to strike Taiwan.
Taiwan is not getting HIMARS, or long-range artillery, or even F-16V jets, whose manufacture has been strangely delayed for some years. In a recent exercise in Japan, the US Marines flew in a HIMARS but did not fire it because of rocket shortages.



Republicans won narrow control of the US House of Representatives in the 2022 mid-term elections. Leader Kevin McCarthy (left) will have his hands full fielding the demands of a far-right faction led by Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, who is a harsh critic of Ukraine war spending. Photo: Facebook / The Hill
At some point, Congress may start asking questions such as why the administration risked US security for Ukraine. It is abundantly clear the US Congress can’t keep voting for billions of dollars worth of weapons for Ukraine when the US itself lacks the arms and can’t support its vital interests elsewhere.
The bottom line in Ukraine is that Zelensky may be unable either to sustain and replenish his war materials or to make up for his lost troops. While the Ukrainian government has been actively censoring war information (which is not at all surprising; von der Leyen is the latest victim), it’s clear that the noose is tightening.
Meanwhile, the degradation of Ukraine’s critical infrastructure may fuel an even greater exodus from the country, as people look for warmth and shelter and young people also dodge the draft.
Russia, as is by now well known, also has serious problems both in recruiting and training soldiers, and its ability to replace weapons. But Russia also has huge war stocks it acquired before the downfall of the Soviet Union, and it is now bringing some of them to bear in the Ukraine war.
It is extremely hard to judge Russian staying power since objecting to the war or criticizing the army can land the outspoken in prison. Even so, there does not yet appear to be an internal anti-war movement with enough credibility to drive Russian leaders to back off. Russia will stay in the war through the winter and perhaps longer, guessing that it can fracture NATO and humiliate the United States – which is Russia’s real goal now.



Russian servicemen near Kherson, Ukraine, May 20, 2022. Image: Screengrab / BBC
In Washington, President Biden benefits, at least for now, from showing that he is a strong leader who can “fight the good fight,” albeit using Ukrainians as proxies. But as winter falls on Europe, with a looming energy crisis and serious financial problems, it is hard for Biden to be comfortable with the risk that, one bright day, the entire enterprise crashes and burns.
Biden wants to run for president again in 2024 and thinks he can win the same way he won in 2020. But that may not be the case if his war goes belly-up, if Europe moves in another direction or if real trouble comes in Asia focused on Taiwan or even Korea.
Biden cannot survive a crisis over who lost Europe, who lost Taiwan, or who lost Korea. To be credible and remain in office, Biden must change direction on Ukraine and security, and soon.
_Stephen Bryen is a senior fellow at the Center for Security Policy and the Yorktown Institute. Follow him on Twitter at @stevebryen_
Ukrainian military casualties are big trouble for Biden​Ukraine has likely lost 100,000 soldiers who won’t readily be replaced while US arms deliveries are depleting stocks and exposing security holes in Asia
by Stephen Bryen December 1, 2022

https://asiatimes.com/2022/12/ukrainian-military-casualties-are-big-trouble-for-biden/

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

This is what Invincibility Points looks like

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599221527060566017

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599221527060566017


Those basically warn Russian pilots of radar locks?


----------



## jhungary

Beny Karachun said:


> Those basically warn Russian pilots of radar locks?


lol no......

This is what they use in USAF to train USAF pilot to avoid enemy ground threat, it basically send up a fake locking beam and target the aircraft in question, and the pilot were to defeat that beam (ie get out of the lock) and thus defeating the Ground based Threat.

Ukrainian use it and target Russian Aircraft so it looks like S-300 or Buk or whatever SAM system are locking at them, it is used to confuse the Russian.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Viet

jhungary said:


> I am pretty sure Chinese Future in Chinese mind does not include Russia in it......


In the words of late John McCain Russia is a cheap gas station with nukes. Putin wants it so, nothing else. The chinese will not have different view than US, EU and rest of the world. Russia gdp will become a fraction of China. That’s not an equal brother in arms that’s more like China has a small tribute state.


----------



## Viet

925boy said:


> Ukrainian military casualties are big trouble for Biden​
> Ukraine has likely lost 100,000 soldiers who won’t readily be replaced while US arms deliveries are depleting stocks and exposing security holes in Asia
> 
> 
> by Stephen Bryen December 1, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian cemetery with recently buried war dead. Estimates have put Ukrainian casualties at over 100,000. Image: Twitter
> 
> In a shocking statement that has now been withdrawn, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen wrote that Ukraine has lost 100,000 soldiers and 20,000 civilians in the Ukraine war.
> This conforms to comments made by US Joint Chief of Staff head General Mark Milley, who in a speech at a conference hosted by New York’s Economic Club said that more than 100,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or wounded in the war and that the number of troop casualties is probably the “same” for Ukraine’s army.
> Ukraine’s heavy casualties are a signal that Washington’s de facto war with Russia is in trouble. President Joe Biden has to change direction or face a national security crisis that could end his presidency.
> Ukraine may look as if it were winning. The truth is the opposite because Ukraine is running out of manpower it cannot replace. It is losing by attrition on the battlefield and, with the Russians systematically destroying its infrastructure, millions of Ukrainians have fled abroad. It is unlikely the country could recover even if the war should end tomorrow.
> Meanwhile, Russia’s manpower problems are less severe. Moscow has been replenishing its supply of front-line troops through an unpopular conscription program at home that has now been extended to the territories in Ukraine that it occupies.
> Russia’s proxy army, the Wagner Group, also has been significantly enlarged from 8,000 last April to nearly 40,000 now. Many Wagner Group fighters have been recruited from Russian prisons and some have been brought in from other countries, especially the Middle East and Africa.
> 
> 
> 
> Members of the Wagner Group in Syria. Photo: Twitter
> Ukrainian estimates the number of Wagner Group casualties at between 800 and 1,000; others put them at 3,000.
> Among the most stunning bits of information that have recently surfaced, reports in Poland say that around 1,200 Polish “volunteers” have been killed in Ukraine. These appear to have been drawn from Poland’s active land army, which consists of three main divisions.
> The Polish army is composed of 61,200 soldiers and support personnel. It is unlikely Poland will commit many more troops given the high casualties and the risk that Russia will strike Poland in retaliation.
> The most recent estimate of the Ukraine land army’s fighting strength is 198,000 troops. Given the alarmingly high casualty rates, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is facing a genuine crisis if the war drags on much longer.
> Russia has recently focused on destroying Ukraine’s critical infrastructure and Ukrainian command posts, and equally on liquidating to the degree possible Ukraine’s high-value weapons, particularly precision rocket systems such as HIMARS, air defense units and Ukrainian artillery.
> The battlefield casualties on the Ukrainian side appear to be largely the result of Russian heavy artillery that is being coordinated by Russian drones, most of them variants of the Orlan-10.
> 
> 
> 
> An Orlan-10 drone. Photo: Wikipedia
> Russia has also made progress by improving its command and control and leadership in the field. The Russians pulled back strategically from Kherson in order to preserve manpower and organize better defensive positions.
> Most of the heavy fighting now appears to be taking place in and around Bakhmut, where Russian and local troops seem to be making slow but steady progress. That battle is chewing up Ukrainian reserves and has cost Ukraine large amounts of ammunition that cannot readily be replaced.
> The Europeans have made clear that their resources have diminished to a critical level and that continuing to supply Ukraine may not be possible. The US is also facing an empty cupboard, especially regarding important high-tech systems such as HIMARS, antitank weapons such as Javelin and MANPADS including Stinger.
> The US also is short on conventional ammunition, including 155mm shells. Worse still, the emptying of vital war stocks has delayed deliveries of supplies to Taiwan and created vacuum opportunities for China should it choose to strike Taiwan.
> Taiwan is not getting HIMARS, or long-range artillery, or even F-16V jets, whose manufacture has been strangely delayed for some years. In a recent exercise in Japan, the US Marines flew in a HIMARS but did not fire it because of rocket shortages.
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans won narrow control of the US House of Representatives in the 2022 mid-term elections. Leader Kevin McCarthy (left) will have his hands full fielding the demands of a far-right faction led by Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, who is a harsh critic of Ukraine war spending. Photo: Facebook / The Hill
> At some point, Congress may start asking questions such as why the administration risked US security for Ukraine. It is abundantly clear the US Congress can’t keep voting for billions of dollars worth of weapons for Ukraine when the US itself lacks the arms and can’t support its vital interests elsewhere.
> The bottom line in Ukraine is that Zelensky may be unable either to sustain and replenish his war materials or to make up for his lost troops. While the Ukrainian government has been actively censoring war information (which is not at all surprising; von der Leyen is the latest victim), it’s clear that the noose is tightening.
> Meanwhile, the degradation of Ukraine’s critical infrastructure may fuel an even greater exodus from the country, as people look for warmth and shelter and young people also dodge the draft.
> Russia, as is by now well known, also has serious problems both in recruiting and training soldiers, and its ability to replace weapons. But Russia also has huge war stocks it acquired before the downfall of the Soviet Union, and it is now bringing some of them to bear in the Ukraine war.
> It is extremely hard to judge Russian staying power since objecting to the war or criticizing the army can land the outspoken in prison. Even so, there does not yet appear to be an internal anti-war movement with enough credibility to drive Russian leaders to back off. Russia will stay in the war through the winter and perhaps longer, guessing that it can fracture NATO and humiliate the United States – which is Russia’s real goal now.
> 
> 
> 
> Russian servicemen near Kherson, Ukraine, May 20, 2022. Image: Screengrab / BBC
> In Washington, President Biden benefits, at least for now, from showing that he is a strong leader who can “fight the good fight,” albeit using Ukrainians as proxies. But as winter falls on Europe, with a looming energy crisis and serious financial problems, it is hard for Biden to be comfortable with the risk that, one bright day, the entire enterprise crashes and burns.
> Biden wants to run for president again in 2024 and thinks he can win the same way he won in 2020. But that may not be the case if his war goes belly-up, if Europe moves in another direction or if real trouble comes in Asia focused on Taiwan or even Korea.
> Biden cannot survive a crisis over who lost Europe, who lost Taiwan, or who lost Korea. To be credible and remain in office, Biden must change direction on Ukraine and security, and soon.
> _Stephen Bryen is a senior fellow at the Center for Security Policy and the Yorktown Institute. Follow him on Twitter at @stevebryen_
> Ukrainian military casualties are big trouble for Biden​Ukraine has likely lost 100,000 soldiers who won’t readily be replaced while US arms deliveries are depleting stocks and exposing security holes in Asia
> by Stephen Bryen December 1, 2022
> 
> https://asiatimes.com/2022/12/ukrainian-military-casualties-are-big-trouble-for-biden/


That’s nothing. 100,000 dead, 300,000 wounded for both sides Ukraine and Russia after 10 months. that is a very conservative number. This war is merely an artillery war. If full blown out, the casualties must run 10,000 deaths per day. Unless Putin can kill until the last Ukraine man, women and baby I don’t think this war will end with unconditional Ukraine surrender.
Even the west stops weapons delivery Ukrainians will fight with spade. As one of the army said it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599358562249371649

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599384320871104512


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599386702681821184


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599400540005244928

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599403456388702208


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russia losing '500 soldiers a day' ....​








Russia losing '500 soldiers a day' in Ukraine - VIDEO


Russia is suffering heavy losses in Ukraine with Defence Minister Advisor Yuriy Sak claiming Putin is "losing" his grip on occupied territories.




www.express.co.uk


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599410006503223296
AFU making progress in the last remaining russian occupied areas of Kharkiv.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599339437078429696

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599419152476749825

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599419152476749825




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599405097062014977


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> lol no......
> 
> This is what they use in USAF to train USAF pilot to avoid enemy ground threat, it basically send up a fake locking beam and target the aircraft in question, and the pilot were to defeat that beam (ie get out of the lock) and thus defeating the Ground based Threat.
> 
> Ukrainian use it and target Russian Aircraft so it looks like S-300 or Buk or whatever SAM system are locking at them, it is used to confuse the Russian.




Is this going to be the new story after the HIMARS booga booga ran its course? Russians will figure out these fake signals, I assume.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599373634220412929

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## Hassan Al-Somal

925boy said:


> Ukrainian military casualties are big trouble for Biden​
> Ukraine has likely lost 100,000 soldiers who won’t readily be replaced while US arms deliveries are depleting stocks and exposing security holes in Asia
> 
> 
> by Stephen Bryen December 1, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian cemetery with recently buried war dead. Estimates have put Ukrainian casualties at over 100,000. Image: Twitter
> 
> In a shocking statement that has now been withdrawn, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen wrote that Ukraine has lost 100,000 soldiers and 20,000 civilians in the Ukraine war.
> This conforms to comments made by US Joint Chief of Staff head General Mark Milley, who in a speech at a conference hosted by New York’s Economic Club said that more than 100,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or wounded in the war and that the number of troop casualties is probably the “same” for Ukraine’s army.
> Ukraine’s heavy casualties are a signal that Washington’s de facto war with Russia is in trouble. President Joe Biden has to change direction or face a national security crisis that could end his presidency.
> Ukraine may look as if it were winning. The truth is the opposite because Ukraine is running out of manpower it cannot replace. It is losing by attrition on the battlefield and, with the Russians systematically destroying its infrastructure, millions of Ukrainians have fled abroad. It is unlikely the country could recover even if the war should end tomorrow.
> Meanwhile, Russia’s manpower problems are less severe. Moscow has been replenishing its supply of front-line troops through an unpopular conscription program at home that has now been extended to the territories in Ukraine that it occupies.
> Russia’s proxy army, the Wagner Group, also has been significantly enlarged from 8,000 last April to nearly 40,000 now. Many Wagner Group fighters have been recruited from Russian prisons and some have been brought in from other countries, especially the Middle East and Africa.
> 
> 
> 
> Members of the Wagner Group in Syria. Photo: Twitter
> Ukrainian estimates the number of Wagner Group casualties at between 800 and 1,000; others put them at 3,000.
> Among the most stunning bits of information that have recently surfaced, reports in Poland say that around 1,200 Polish “volunteers” have been killed in Ukraine. These appear to have been drawn from Poland’s active land army, which consists of three main divisions.
> The Polish army is composed of 61,200 soldiers and support personnel. It is unlikely Poland will commit many more troops given the high casualties and the risk that Russia will strike Poland in retaliation.
> The most recent estimate of the Ukraine land army’s fighting strength is 198,000 troops. Given the alarmingly high casualty rates, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is facing a genuine crisis if the war drags on much longer.
> Russia has recently focused on destroying Ukraine’s critical infrastructure and Ukrainian command posts, and equally on liquidating to the degree possible Ukraine’s high-value weapons, particularly precision rocket systems such as HIMARS, air defense units and Ukrainian artillery.
> The battlefield casualties on the Ukrainian side appear to be largely the result of Russian heavy artillery that is being coordinated by Russian drones, most of them variants of the Orlan-10.
> 
> 
> 
> An Orlan-10 drone. Photo: Wikipedia
> Russia has also made progress by improving its command and control and leadership in the field. The Russians pulled back strategically from Kherson in order to preserve manpower and organize better defensive positions.
> Most of the heavy fighting now appears to be taking place in and around Bakhmut, where Russian and local troops seem to be making slow but steady progress. That battle is chewing up Ukrainian reserves and has cost Ukraine large amounts of ammunition that cannot readily be replaced.
> The Europeans have made clear that their resources have diminished to a critical level and that continuing to supply Ukraine may not be possible. The US is also facing an empty cupboard, especially regarding important high-tech systems such as HIMARS, antitank weapons such as Javelin and MANPADS including Stinger.
> The US also is short on conventional ammunition, including 155mm shells. Worse still, the emptying of vital war stocks has delayed deliveries of supplies to Taiwan and created vacuum opportunities for China should it choose to strike Taiwan.
> Taiwan is not getting HIMARS, or long-range artillery, or even F-16V jets, whose manufacture has been strangely delayed for some years. In a recent exercise in Japan, the US Marines flew in a HIMARS but did not fire it because of rocket shortages.
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans won narrow control of the US House of Representatives in the 2022 mid-term elections. Leader Kevin McCarthy (left) will have his hands full fielding the demands of a far-right faction led by Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, who is a harsh critic of Ukraine war spending. Photo: Facebook / The Hill
> At some point, Congress may start asking questions such as why the administration risked US security for Ukraine. It is abundantly clear the US Congress can’t keep voting for billions of dollars worth of weapons for Ukraine when the US itself lacks the arms and can’t support its vital interests elsewhere.
> The bottom line in Ukraine is that Zelensky may be unable either to sustain and replenish his war materials or to make up for his lost troops. While the Ukrainian government has been actively censoring war information (which is not at all surprising; von der Leyen is the latest victim), it’s clear that the noose is tightening.
> Meanwhile, the degradation of Ukraine’s critical infrastructure may fuel an even greater exodus from the country, as people look for warmth and shelter and young people also dodge the draft.
> Russia, as is by now well known, also has serious problems both in recruiting and training soldiers, and its ability to replace weapons. But Russia also has huge war stocks it acquired before the downfall of the Soviet Union, and it is now bringing some of them to bear in the Ukraine war.
> It is extremely hard to judge Russian staying power since objecting to the war or criticizing the army can land the outspoken in prison. Even so, there does not yet appear to be an internal anti-war movement with enough credibility to drive Russian leaders to back off. Russia will stay in the war through the winter and perhaps longer, guessing that it can fracture NATO and humiliate the United States – which is Russia’s real goal now.
> 
> 
> 
> Russian servicemen near Kherson, Ukraine, May 20, 2022. Image: Screengrab / BBC
> In Washington, President Biden benefits, at least for now, from showing that he is a strong leader who can “fight the good fight,” albeit using Ukrainians as proxies. But as winter falls on Europe, with a looming energy crisis and serious financial problems, it is hard for Biden to be comfortable with the risk that, one bright day, the entire enterprise crashes and burns.
> Biden wants to run for president again in 2024 and thinks he can win the same way he won in 2020. But that may not be the case if his war goes belly-up, if Europe moves in another direction or if real trouble comes in Asia focused on Taiwan or even Korea.
> Biden cannot survive a crisis over who lost Europe, who lost Taiwan, or who lost Korea. To be credible and remain in office, Biden must change direction on Ukraine and security, and soon.
> _Stephen Bryen is a senior fellow at the Center for Security Policy and the Yorktown Institute. Follow him on Twitter at @stevebryen_
> Ukrainian military casualties are big trouble for Biden​Ukraine has likely lost 100,000 soldiers who won’t readily be replaced while US arms deliveries are depleting stocks and exposing security holes in Asia
> by Stephen Bryen December 1, 2022
> 
> https://asiatimes.com/2022/12/ukrainian-military-casualties-are-big-trouble-for-biden/




Cracks are opening up that the West can't keep up with the demands of this war. It looks like Russian military planners' grinding progress of the war is paying dividends.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599221527060566017





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599400237767892993

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599434431038906368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599434907612512257

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Neo-Nazi views of the Ukrainian armed groups such as Azov is pretty much documented. This is not something that is up for a debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.washingtonpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
> 
> 
> As Ukraine's struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599185230237032449


The Azov battallion was defending Mariupol And the remains was captured.
They were integrated into the Ukrainan Army, and there is really no proof that NeoNazism play a role after that.

The Ukrainan Army is now hundreds of thousand troops newly recruited with no connection to Azov. They are fighting the war criminals you support. That makes them freedom fighters and not Nazis. The hypocricy is amazing.

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## bobo6661

Someone said Russia still not using its powa and its only Kharkiv...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599389153048731648


> The Azov battallion was defending Mariupol And the remains was captured.
> They were integrated into the Ukrainan Army, and there is really no proof that NeoNazism play a role after that.
> 
> The Ukrainan Army is now hundreds of thousand troops newly recruited with no connection to Azov. They are fighting the war criminals you support. That makes them freedom fighters and not Nazis. The hypocricy is amazing.



I mean he does not mind the nazi russians from wagner that are opening new offices and meeting with puttler regularly.... And sledgehammering their own

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Is this going to be the new story after the HIMARS booga booga ran its course? Russians will figure out these fake signals, I assume.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599373634220412929


Dude, you have no idea on what I am talking about. What you are doing is just making you looking like an a$$.

I am sure the Russian pilot can that is a fake Radar from up there over flying over 30,000 ft. Because a radar lock is a radar lock, unless you saw what lock on you, you can't figure out whether or not this is real or fake. This is a real war, not a movie dude.

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## The SC

A lot of updates today..

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## Reashot Xigwin

"But, but the ukies are Nazi... " Said a Cu*t

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599309556823097345

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## bobo6661

Reashot Xigwin said:


> "But, but the ukies are Nazi... " Said a Cu*t
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599309556823097345




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599315905141346304

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## Reashot Xigwin

Mass graves in Mariupol

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599043606932639744

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599451121973874688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599479845204873216

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## Vergennes

Just look at how russian "ammo depots" look like


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599481576533827584

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## BHAN85

Russia rejects West's oil price cap, mulls supply suspension


Russia rejects West's oil price cap, mulls supply suspension Dec 04, 2022 11:47 PM Moscow has voiced opposition against a price cap on Russian oil and said European countries championing the price cap could face a suspension of oil supplies, local media reported over the weekend. The...



defence.pk





The next time you buy something expensive, you can say to the seller "I introduce a price cap of 1 dollar for your product, if you dont know what the hell I'm talking about, ask to EU dumbheads".

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Just look at how russian "ammo depots" look like
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599481576533827584





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599538330454016000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599540687204032512

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## Oldman1

khansaheeb said:


> What happened to the denial that you "lost" in Afghanistan? Honesty is the best policy through which to learn.


Shows when to leave. The Russians learning the hard way just like in Afghanistan for 10 years until realizing they lost. Ukraine is just worse for them. They won't know they lost.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599496235429163008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599492935438901248

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> After Ukraine's UN votes against Israel they should be lucky to get anything at all.


The empire says "help ukraine", so Israel has to help ukraine. So they are not lucky at all. You will be sending more and more stuff soon.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599577598107209729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599443083522818048

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599542889066811392

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## gambit

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Is this going to be the new story after the HIMARS booga booga ran its course? Russians will figure out these fake signals, I assume.


Am going to elaborate slightly from @jhungary post 15638.

The moment your RWR rang in your ears that there is a radar lock on you, your first response, from training not instincts, is going to be getting out of that lock. The training is that any lock *MUST*, not should, be considered a real threat and that the threat is *IMMEDIATE*, meaning either missile launch is imminent or the missile is already underway to you. Time to assess the validity of that threat comes later *AFTER* you have successfully break lock, assuming you can do that in the first place.

If there is a radar lock, the response is chaff and maneuvers. The combination is designed to force the radar to continually recompute what it 'sees'. If you stay on steady course, you are not forcing the radar to do that, hence, making it easier to kill you. Can you afford the time to see if the threat is genuine or spoof? No air force will ever train its pilots to think that way. Of course, Russia can make itself an exception to that rule. 



S10 said:


> So is Ukraine getting this or is US joining the fighting? Otherwise, what's the relevance here?


The relevance is this...







A single B-2 crippled an airfield with six bombs. The Raider have upped that ante with merely its debut, and your China knows it.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> Am going to elaborate slightly from @jhungary post 15638.
> 
> The moment your RWR rang in your ears that there is a radar lock on you, your first response, from training not instincts, is going to be getting out of that lock. The training is that any lock *MUST*, not should, be considered a real threat and that the threat is *IMMEDIATE*, meaning either missile launch is imminent or the missile is already underway to you. Time to assess the validity of that threat comes later *AFTER* you have successfully break lock, assuming you can do that in the first place.
> 
> If there is a radar lock, the response is chaff and maneuvers. The combination is designed to force the radar to continually recompute what it 'sees'. If you stay on steady course, you are not forcing the radar to do that, hence, making it easier to kill you. Can you afford the time to see if the threat is genuine or spoof? No air force will ever train its pilots to think that way. Of course, Russia can make itself an exception to that rule.
> 
> 
> The relevance is this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A single B-2 crippled an airfield with six bombs. The Raider have upped that ante with merely its debut, and your China knows it.


I would say the "I should wait to see if this threat was real or fake" is the reason why Russia lost so many aircraft, both fix wing and chopper to the Ukrainian.....


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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599659436280512512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599679140227346432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599588395696943104

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## Viet

Putin, Peskow, Lavrov, and other hooligans are exposed as thieves. Rediculous, demanding other people to surrender territory before peace talks.










Russia demands annexations recognised before talks - BBC News


The Kremlin says the West's refusal to recognise its seizure of Ukrainian land makes talks harder.




www.bbc.com


----------



## Viet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597377493094518784

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russia just lost nuclear carrier bombers





Russia defeat and humiliation is getting closer

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia just lost nuclear carrier bombers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia defeat and humiliation is getting closer
> View attachment 903069


Engel Air Base is around 300 miles away.......

This is not something even ATACAMS can hit, you are looking at either short range ballistic missile or Special Force direct action

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## Ali_Baba

Russian bombers 'damaged in explosion at Engels-2 airbase'


An explosion lit up the night sky over Engels-2 airbase, near the Russian city of Saratov, early on Monday and damaged two Tu-95 bombers which have been used to attack Ukraine's power grid.




www.dailymail.co.uk







> Hours before the blasts, Ukrainian arms firm Ukrobonoprom claimed to have successfully tested a suicide drone with a 165lb warhead that would be capable of hitting both locations.



>> Reports are that it was a Ukrainian Drone Strike !!!! Maybe a 1 way drone strike - the trade off would be worth it.

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## That Guy

With Russia refusing to supply Pakistan with the same discounted oil that it gives India, I hope Pakistan wakes up and smells the Chai.

Russia was never, is not, nor will ever be Pakistan's friend.

It's time Pakistan takes advantage of this conflict to test its weapons systems, and start supplying ammo that it knows that Ukraine needs and Pakistan can provide an abundance of.

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## Broccoli

Ali_Baba said:


> Russian bombers 'damaged in explosion at Engels-2 airbase'
> 
> 
> An explosion lit up the night sky over Engels-2 airbase, near the Russian city of Saratov, early on Monday and damaged two Tu-95 bombers which have been used to attack Ukraine's power grid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Reports are that it was a Ukrainian Drone Strike !!!! Maybe a 1 way drone strike - the trade off would be worth it.



If Ukrainians can make thousands of kamikaze drones with 75kg warhead it means big troubles for Russia as Ukraine doesn't need wests permission to use those drones on Russian infra and west can simply look other way.

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## That Guy

Ali_Baba said:


> Russian bombers 'damaged in explosion at Engels-2 airbase'
> 
> 
> An explosion lit up the night sky over Engels-2 airbase, near the Russian city of Saratov, early on Monday and damaged two Tu-95 bombers which have been used to attack Ukraine's power grid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Reports are that it was a Ukrainian Drone Strike !!!! Maybe a 1 way drone strike - the trade off would be worth it.


The Russians opened the pandora's box, the Ukrainians can reciprocate in kind.

...that's if the Ukrainians actually have a the capability to mass manufacture these drones.

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## Vergennes

Ukrainian small drones and artillery at work against russian invaders


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599753472412618752

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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Engel Air Base is around 300 miles away.......
> 
> This is not something even ATACAMS can hit, you are looking at either short range ballistic missile or Special Force direct action


Most likely spec ops because that seems to be Ukrainian M.O. for striking deep within rusky territory.


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## Broccoli

That Guy said:


> The Russians opened the pandora's box, the Ukrainians can reciprocate in kind.
> 
> ...that's if the Ukrainians actually have a the capability to mass manufacture these drones.



Probably manufactured from common parts what Ukrainians get easily from western countries same way other countries produce their kamikaze drones.








Reashot Xigwin said:


> Most likely spec ops because that seems to be Ukrainian M.O. for striking deep within rusky territory.



Could be work of this new drone and if Ukrainians get mass production going Russia will have big problems.









Ukroboronprom announced the start of tests of a drone with a range of 1,000 km under the effect of EW, at the same time, an explosion happened at the Russian airbase in Engels • Mezha.Media


Ukroboronprom concern announced a new stage of UAV tests, which will be able to hit targets at a distance of 1000 km and has a warhead weighing 75 kg. There




mezha.media


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## That Guy

jhungary said:


> Engel Air Base is around 300 miles away.......
> 
> This is not something even ATACAMS can hit, you are looking at either short range ballistic missile or Special Force direct action


We do know that light weight suicide drones have that sort of range, so it's not entirely out of the possibility that drones were involved here.


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## jhungary

That Guy said:


> We do know that light weight suicide drones have that sort of range, so it's not entirely out of the possibility that drones were involved here.


It damaged/destroyed 4 big plane, light drone don't have that much payload to do that.

I don't think even Shahed can do that. That explosion looked like a 500 pounder.


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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Ukraine voted against Israel before the war and during the war and expects Israel to give it air defenses and other advanced weaponry.
> 
> Hell I'm half Ukrainian and I view it asan obvious spit on Israel's face.


Yes they spat in your face. But it doest matter, such actions have no practical consequences. You will supply Ukraine with more and more stuff because the Empire (Anglo-Saxon Empire) says we all have to show a united front against Russia. Israel included. And because Israel is angry at Ukraine you will send armoured ambulances and other less lethal help, but you will send help. If missiles are needed you will send missiles. Your sovereignty only extends so far, Local and some regional issues. but the Empire makes the big calls. But its all for show, I am sure US weapons in old store rooms are more than all of Europe can provide. And it doest cost a cent its all been stored for a long time anyway and would have to destroyed of not given to Ukraine.



925boy said:


> billions of dollars worth of weapons for Ukraine when the US itself lacks


Yes the Russians are very worried about the endless of supply of weapons to Ukraine. Their only hope of winning is if those weapons stop. But those weapons will not stop. Western powers have decided that the borders of russia are big enough. It stops here.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> It damaged/destroyed 4 big plane, light drone don't have that much payload to do that.
> 
> I don't think even Shahed can do that. That explosion looked like a 500 pounder.


The flash is huge. 50m in height or higher.
A nice big bomb.
Hardly anyone survived within 100m radius.
Beware: Putin will order retaliation.


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## That Guy

jhungary said:


> It damaged/destroyed 4 big plane, light drone don't have that much payload to do that.
> 
> I don't think even Shahed can do that. That explosion looked like a 500 pounder.


A singular, sure, but a few of them flying in? Who knows? It could also be that munition on those aircraft was damaged and caused a cook off.

You're probably right though.


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## Ali_Baba

I wonder how long it will be before ukrainian suicide drones start hitting military targets in around moscow it-self..... there is really no reason to be shy about it now.

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> Nazis calling other people Nazis is funny. This is a Pakistani defense forum and we entertain all views and not just from Europoodles, Zionazis and Hindjews.


If you had a minimum of comprehension of the thread, you would have noticed that Hassan quoted a tweet calling Ukrainans Nazis.
I called out his hypocricy, since he wanted members banned for calling Russians ”Cockroaches”, and now you call Hassan a Nazi, which is violating the rules of the Forum. I did not call anyone ”Nazi”.
Your lack of comprehension, probably make you believe that you criticized me…

What is really funny, is that Hassan adds a love emoji, when he is called a Nazi.
Was it intentional?

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> The flash is huge. 50m in height or higher.
> A nice big bomb.
> Hardly anyone survived within 100m radius.
> Beware: Putin will order retaliation.
> 
> 
> View attachment 903087



A cruise missile eg Storm launched from a ukranian fighter plane? There was talk of providing storm missiles etc.


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## Deino

jhungary said:


> It damaged/destroyed 4 big plane, light drone don't have that much payload to do that.
> 
> I don't think even Shahed can do that. That explosion looked like a 500 pounder.




I had a similar idea even if I don't think, Ukraine has any weapons of such range!

Or a mishap on Russian side?

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## 925boy

thetutle said:


> Yes the Russians are very worried about the endless of supply of weapons to Ukraine.


Russia is worried, but not THAT worried about that.


thetutle said:


> Their only hope of winning is if those weapons stop.


No, its to finish off Ukraine's manpower to fight the war and operate all this NATO "equipment" you talk about.


thetutle said:


> But those weapons will not stop.


THey dont have to- who will operate them?A grandma from Ukraine?? lmaooo


thetutle said:


> Western powers have decided that the borders of russia are big enough.


They lost that power, as you will soon find out- how did EU and US already get DRAINED militarily without even fighting in the war? i mean blockhead Polish govt sent some active army people to die in Ukraine, which was NATO directly being involved in the war (then we get the propaganda on PDF of "NATO is not directly involved in this war" blahy blah BS), so yea, NATO already got Afghanistanized without fighting directly.


thetutle said:


> It stops here.


only in your mouth. cheers.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599795069782892544

US set to massively increase 155mm ammo production, to dwarf Russian production

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## The SC

Chechen Troops Purge Zaporozhye from Ukrainian Nationalists..

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## Viet

That Guy said:


> With Russia refusing to supply Pakistan with the same discounted oil that it gives India, I hope Pakistan wakes up and smells the Chai.
> 
> Russia was never, is not, nor will ever be Pakistan's friend.
> 
> It's time Pakistan takes advantage of this conflict to test its weapons systems, and start supplying ammo that it knows that Ukraine needs and Pakistan can provide an abundance of.


By next year when sanctions full in force, my friend, Russia will sell everything cheap to Pakistan, to every country who has money. I mean the EU is the biggest buyer of Russia oil, gas, coal, gold, diamonds, fertilizer, everything. Putin will become a beggar if other don’t buy his stuffs.

Where he will get the money to pay for the war? Russia defense budget this year will be $100 billion.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599805451621011457

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599809203933450240

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## Ali_Baba

Range of new Ukranian Suicide drone on Russia interests :







Lots of juicy russian targets in range.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599836905276743682

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## jhungary

That Guy said:


> A singular, sure, but a few of them flying in? Who knows? It could also be that munition on those aircraft was damaged and caused a cook off.
> 
> You're probably right though.


I saw one blast in most of the video I had seen, I can't comment on the stuff that I didn't see, I can only comment on the stuff that I saw. And judging by the blast that appear on those videos, if they were true, you are talking about most likely a large warhead or a bomb. Which I don't think anything less than 500 lb bomb can make that bang.

I could be wrong tho, because I don't know what's that explosion (It could have been something hitting a fuel truck for example), in fact, I don't even know if those explosion is the one happened in Engel, but judging by the thing that I see purporting to the explosion event, that is most likely not a drone that caused that.



Deino said:


> I had a similar idea even if I don't think, Ukraine has any weapons of such range!
> 
> Or a mishap on Russian side?


It could be.

As I said, I didn't actually see the explosion happening, so I don't know what caused that. It could just be a fuel truck getting bam.... But then, how often would you think a mishap can happen? This is probably 5th or 6th time I know of that happened inside Russian land that is too far to be targeted by conventional weapon, I mean you have the Crimea Airbase bombing, you have Belgorod, you have the Kerch Bridge, and then that car bomb that killed Dugin's daughter is almost certainly SF/Partisan activities, I just don't know who ordered that, I mean statistically, it cannot be that many mishap.......

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> The flash is huge. 50m in height or higher.
> A nice big bomb.
> Hardly anyone survived within 100m radius.
> Beware: Putin will order retaliation.
> 
> 
> View attachment 903087


Yeah, that one big boom.......

On the other hand, I also need to add that in most video I saw, assume they captured this incident, you can hear there is no air raid siren, if a missile or drone that fly from Ukraine hitting those target, Russia should have know with their radar system, I mean, those aren't stealth drone or missile as Ukraine don't have them. And even Ukraine can detect incoming missile from Russia and Belarus, I would suppose Russia can do the same. 

So either they weren't monitoring their airspace, which is a major misstep in a war, or they didn't saw it coming. That's why I am more inclined to believe this is some sort of SF Direction Action stuff.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> It damaged/destroyed 4 big plane, light drone don't have that much payload to do that.
> 
> I don't think even Shahed can do that. That explosion looked like a 500 pounder.


my guess what ever it was it probably hit some fuel tanks and that explosion was responsible for damage to aircrafts . . and honestly can someone tell me what is the necessary to put those flankers and strategic bombers so close to border for Russia ? these aircrafts supposed to have thousands of km of range



Viet said:


> The flash is huge. 50m in height or higher.
> A nice big bomb.


it is big yes but consider its night and its on CCTV, that is bound to be shown brighter than it really is

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> my guess what ever it was it probably hit some fuel tanks and that explosion was responsible for damage to aircrafts . . and honestly can someone tell me what is the necessary to put those flankers and strategic bombers so close to border for Russia ? these aircrafts supposed to have thousands of km of range
> 
> 
> it is big yes but consider its night and its on CCTV, that is bound to be shown brighter than it really is


Aircraft don't usually park near fuel tank, they were built on the other side of the airfield for a reason, that's why you use fuel truck to refuel the plane, and it's too small to target by drone, which mean if this is a fuel truck that was hit. That's why I said this could either be missile or SF team. Most likely the latter.


----------



## BHAN85

Viet said:


> By next year when sanctions full in force, my friend, Russia will sell everything cheap to Pakistan, to every country who has money. I mean the EU is the biggest buyer of Russia oil, gas, coal, gold, diamonds, fertilizer, everything. Putin will become a beggar if other don’t buy his stuffs.
> 
> Where he will get the money to pay for the war? Russia defense budget this year will be $100 billion.


I wonder what Russia would do with money if they can't buy anything to the West due to sanctions.

Russia common people wont die of starvation, because Russia produce enough food and drink (Vodka) for them.

But Russian elite will become crazy without iPhones and Louis Vuitton bags, that is the greatest threat for Putin: wives of Russian oligarchs angried without Louis Vuitton bags.


----------



## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> I wonder what Russia would do with money if they can't buy anything to the West due to sanctions.
> 
> Russia common people wont die of starvation, because Russia produce enough food and drink (Vodka) for them.
> 
> But Russian elite will become crazy without iPhones and Louis Vuitton bags, that is the greatest threat for Putin: wives of Russian oligarchs angried without Louis Vuitton bags.


They will have access to it via grey import. 

Whatever brand being sold in Turkey or China will then be resell to Russia by private importer. It's sort of like the Chinese Daigou sweeping US, Australia and New Zealand shelves of Milk Powder. It just that instead it will cost the Russian $1500 to buy a Iphone 14 in an apple store, now they cost around $1800 thru those import.


----------



## The SC

Ukrainians attacked Russian airports inside Russia with drones of 1000 km range!

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## BHAN85

Explosion Hits Engels-2 Airbase, Russia, Reportedly Damaging At Least Two Tu-95 Bombers


According to the first reports, at least two Russian Tu-95 Bear bombers were damaged in the attack. Engels-2 airbase, located in Saratov Oblast, some 400




theaviationist.com





How can a Ukrainian drone fly 700 km in Russian airspace without Russia notice?

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## BHAN85

By the other side if Ukraine can carry on such long range attacks why they didnt attack nearer airbases?

I think say those drones come from Ukrainian land is too much guess.


----------



## The SC



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599851201314492420

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599881611461668864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599852682608799744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599727736448090112

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## BHAN85

It's more easy put a drone inside a truck and launch from deep Russian land, than a drone flying 700 KM over Russia.

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## BHAN85

By the other side Engels-2 airbase was used to launch attacks against Ukraine, so maybe the drone could hide from radar flying near to a Russia airplane coming back home.

It that case, it's something of good luck, and it doesnt means that Ukraine can attack whatever target they want 700 km inside Russia.

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## Beny Karachun

gambit said:


> A single B-2 crippled an airfield with six bombs. The Raider have upped that ante with merely its debut, and your China knows it.


Not going to lie an F-15 could do that as well.
A B-2 however can do it to 3 air bases, while being very stealthy.



BHAN85 said:


> By the other side Engels-2 airbase was used to launch attacks against Ukraine, so maybe the drone could hide from radar flying near to a Russia airplane coming back home.
> 
> It that case, it's something of good luck, and it doesnt means that Ukraine can attack whatever target they want 700 km inside Russia.


B-b-but S-400 is the best air defense system in the world!!!

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> my guess what ever it was it probably hit some fuel tanks and that explosion was responsible for damage to aircrafts . . and honestly can someone tell me what is the necessary to put those flankers and strategic bombers so close to border for Russia ? these aircrafts supposed to have thousands of km of range


How is 500-600km "close"? This is more than many country's ranges in Europe.
Also Russians are in the delusion that their air defenses are the best so there's no need for that.

And lastly, for faster reaction time and in the case of the flankers to not need any costly constant air refueling operations.



jhungary said:


> It damaged/destroyed 4 big plane, light drone don't have that much payload to do that.
> 
> I don't think even Shahed can do that. That explosion looked like a 500 pounder.


Keep in mind explosions always look wayyy more impressive in the night.

Secondary explosions are a possibility as well, I doubt their strategic bombers are unloaded, as it takes a lot of time to load them.

Kinda scary considering some of them are armed with nuclear warheads.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596957645067673601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599868219309060096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599854379233726465

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> By the other side Engels-2 airbase was used to launch attacks against Ukraine, so maybe the drone could hide from radar flying near to a Russia airplane coming back home.
> 
> It that case, it's something of good luck, and it doesnt means that Ukraine can attack whatever target they want 700 km inside Russia.


You don’t get the picture. The reason why Ukraine can attack targets deep inside Russia is: Russia air defense sucks. Or weak to non existent, because many of those systems are deployed in Ukraine to protect Russia invasion army.
Putin is so obsessed with attacking Ukraine civil infra that he even decimates Russia air defense.
For instance Russia S300 anti aircraft systems are reprogrammed as land attack missiles.

Wait until a Ukraine drone drops a bomb thru Putin’s dining room.

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596957645067673601
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599868219309060096
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599854379233726465


Kinda ironic that you consider Scott Ritter a valid source, and then proceed to complain about rape.

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## PakFactor

Beny Karachun said:


> B-b-but S-400 is the best air defense system in the world!!!



I'm sure Turkey is pleased with its decision to stick with the S-400 and forgo the F-35... NOT.
At this point, the Russians should nuke themselves.

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Kinda scary considering some of them are armed with nuclear warheads.


You wont be able to detonate a nuke by bombing it.



PakFactor said:


> I'm sure Turkey is pleased with its decision to stick with the S-400 and forgo the F-35... NOT.


I'd doubt they'd get them anyway. US decided long ago not to supply Turkey with this kind of weapon, because they know Turkey will use to attack groups the west is financing.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600048399012741126

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600041863754395648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600038527357489152

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600037563519029248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600034589891645440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599996145086132224

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599950977406488576

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599821399173963776


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599950977406488576



"The whole myth faded away". LMAO, 4 Himars were enough to stop Russian offensives and cripple any known ammo depots, command center, troop concentration, cut Russian logistics, forced the Russians to flee to the other side of the Dnipro, still continues to wreak havoc on the Russian army, allowed the Ukrainians to recapture large territories, destroyed any hope of larger Russian offensives but remember it's a "much hyped weapon". @F-22Raptor

This small truck has caused so much fear and paranoia among the Russians and their bots that they are trying to minimize the role of this weapon in the war. Not a single Himars has been destroyed to date, must be insecurity given Russian AD can basically nothing against it.

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> How is 500-600km "close"? This is more than many country's ranges in Europe.
> Also Russians are in the delusion that their air defenses are the best so there's no need for that.
> 
> And lastly, for faster reaction time and in the case of the flankers to not need any costly constant air refueling operations.


flanker have combat range of 1600km and those tu-95 let just say can go and bomb Iceland and come back


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599950977406488576


Yeah i mean Ukraine merely took back 50% of russian occupied land. 🤣 
Why are you continuously copy-pasting these trash “analists” tweets. 

You were wrong again and again. A mere tool to spread dehumanizing propaganda supporting the russian war of agression and its ethnic cleansing.

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599821399173963776


a museum piece wonder how Russia could not detect it in their space and engage it , its not Low RCS , it not flying that low


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## Vergennes

ZeGerman said:


> Yeah i mean Ukraine merely took back 50% of russian occupied land. 🤣
> Why are you continuously copy-pasting these trash “analists” tweets.
> 
> You were wrong again and again. A mere tool to spread dehumanizing propaganda supporting the russian war of agression and its ethnic cleansing.



"Western weapon deliveries didn't change anything in the war".

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> "Western weapon deliveries didn't change anything in the war".
> 
> View attachment 903355


the question is how much of those blues happened prior to weapon deliveries at the start of the war


----------



## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600037563519029248
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600034589891645440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599996145086132224


The first lancet attacking the s300 column missed and did nothing. The second one hit the tyre of the S300. More or less did nothing


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## jhungary

Beny Karachun said:


> How is 500-600km "close"? This is more than many country's ranges in Europe.
> Also Russians are in the delusion that their air defenses are the best so there's no need for that.
> 
> And lastly, for faster reaction time and in the case of the flankers to not need any costly constant air refueling operations.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind explosions always look wayyy more impressive in the night.
> 
> Secondary explosions are a possibility as well, I doubt their strategic bombers are unloaded, as it takes a lot of time to load them.
> 
> Kinda scary considering some of them are armed with nuclear warheads.


Well, yeah, but stlll that is a big explosion, it's like 4 to 5 car height (Which mean around ~15 meters in height) you don't get that big a fireball if that is just a drone with 50kg warhead detonate, you probably get a few good meters. That's why I don't really believe a drone can do that

Again, as I said before, I wasn't there, I can't even verify the footage being true, so that remain my conjecture.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600089523664277504
Meanwhile Putin since the start of the invasion has never paid a visit to support and see his troops in Ukraine nor even to his troops inside Russia close to Ukraine.

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> flanker have combat range of 1600km and those tu-95 let just say can go and bomb Iceland and come back


1600km combat radius, with an air to air configuration, 0 room for maneuver, at high altitude flight.

Give it a few tons of bombs, add the fact it those aircraft often have to maneuver to evade SAMs and that they lack targeting pods and smart bombs that force them into low altitude bombing, this 1600km radius quickly becomes sub-1000km radius.



ZeGerman said:


> Yeah i mean Ukraine merely took back 50% of russian occupied land. 🤣
> Why are you continuously copy-pasting these trash “analists” tweets.
> 
> You were wrong again and again. A mere tool to spread dehumanizing propaganda supporting the russian war of agression and its ethnic cleansing.


50% of Russian officially annexed* land, makes it even worse lmao



Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599821399173963776


No way lmao, this old thing???







Hack-Hook said:


> flanker have combat range of 1600km and those tu-95 let just say can go and bomb Iceland and come back


Anyways, the point is, Russian pilots don't live in the middle of Siberia, aircrafts are located close to their pilots houses.

And Russia thought 600km of air defenses would be secure enough, apparently, it's not.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Drone attack hits oil storage tank at airfield in Russia’s Kursk region​








Drone attack hits oil storage tank at airfield in Russia’s Kursk region


No casualties reported as facility set on fire, one day after Russia blames Ukraine for two other drone strikes




www.theguardian.com





>> another new long range suicide drone strike today !!!

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> No way lmao, this old thing???


The same one was launched from russia, flew over several NATO countries and landed in the Croatian capital. A capital city of a NATO country. Admittedly, Croatia doesnt have air defences, but still. I dont know if anyone has good air defences, this seems to be happening to everyone. 

Air defences seem to work when you know who is launching a missile, from where and when. Like when Gazans laugh missiles at Israel. Anything more sophisticated than that or from a larger area, seems to get through.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Picture of strike on the airbases from yesterday.


----------



## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599950977406488576


No, you still hear heavily about it. Also, claims of any destruction of a HIMARS system have all turned out false so far. Nice propaganda, dude. Good job spreading misinformation for the Russians.

HIMARS and TB-2 won back Kherson and a huge Chuck of the Donbas region for the Ukrainians.

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> I wonder what Russia would do with money if they can't buy anything to the West due to sanctions.
> 
> Russia common people wont die of starvation, because Russia produce enough food and drink (Vodka) for them.
> 
> But Russian elite will become crazy without iPhones and Louis Vuitton bags, that is the greatest threat for Putin: wives of Russian oligarchs angried without Louis Vuitton bags.


What money?
You can only get money if you can sell.
No, russian elites don’t buy Lada. They buy overpriced BMW or French bags.

Even Putin, the hooligan, loves Mercedes when visiting the damaged Crimea bridge.









Russia's Putin drives across repaired bridge to Crimea


MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin tried to boost Russian morale Monday by driving a vehicle across a bridge to Crimea that a truck bomb had damaged in October. Putin took the wheel of a Mercedes to drive across the bridge that links Russia’s mainland with the Crimean Peninsula...




apnews.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600124889091829760
Ukraine striked two Russian strategic bombers deep in Russian territory yesterday.

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## 925boy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599950977406488576


ANd here's another one:

At -20°C, HIMARS To Become ‘Sitting Ducks’ For Russian Military Thanks To New Upgrades & Freezing Winters​By
Sakshi Tiwari
-
December 4, 2022
https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php...o-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...cks-for-russian-military/&via=THEEURASIATIMES
https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=...o-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/
https://reddit.com/submit?url=https...ary+Thanks+To+New+Upgrades+&+Freezing+Winters

*The United States Army has awarded Lockheed Martin a $431 million contract to produce M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System launchers at full capacity to rapidly replenish the inventories of the United States and its allies.*


> *Russia Is Firing 20,000 Artillery Rounds Per Day; Moscow Is Burning Its Amno Faster Than It Can Produce Them — US*​


However, new Russian claims suggest that the ‘game changer’ HIMARS could soon lose its sheen.
The HIMARS started arriving in Ukraine in the summer and have turned the tide of the war in Kyiv’s favor ever since, earning the reputation of a ‘game changer’ in the ongoing conflict.
The US has reportedly supplied about 20 units of the system to Kyiv, with more in the pipeline. However, the invading Russian forces have found a way around these lethal Ukrainian systems.
A Russian air defense unit commander in the Zaporizhzhia region recently informed the local Russian media that the country’s air defense forces have received new software that allows them to shoot down HIMARS MLRS missiles “without difficulties.”
In addition, the Director of the MGIMO Center for Military-Political Studies, Alexei Podberezkin, explained that to destroy the HIMARS rocket, which is fairly long, an air defense missile has to strike accurately at its warhead. Because HIMARS are fired at extremely long range, it’s essential to calculate their course accurately.
This is because minor errors in course calculation will cause the air defense missile, fired from very close to the intended target, to miss hitting the warhead. The software update allows the precise calculation, of course, so that the rocket warhead is struck.





Russia allegedly captured the HIMARS rocket.
If the Russian claims are anything to go by, the Russian troops would be encouraged with a better understanding of the HIMARS MLRS and better means to shoot down the incoming projectiles fired from the system.

Earlier, there were reports that Russia had captured an intact missile fired from HIMARS and was examining it. These claims are also significant as they come when Russia has gone on a missile-firing rampage on Ukraine’s energy targets.
Meanwhile, a Russian officer of the 1st army corps of the Donetsk region recently told Russian news agency RIA Novosti, “the intensity of the use of the MLRS HIMARS by the enemy has significantly decreased” following the onset of winter.
*End Of HIMARS Havoc? *​Indian Air Force veteran and military analyst Vijainder K Thakur told the EurAsian Times that the HIMARS Multiple Launch Rocket Systems are unsuitable for combat operations in the autumn and winter seasons in the East European region.
The expert, an avid Russia watcher, says that the defending Ukrainian troops were plagued with several issues due to the onset of winter and the sub-zero temperatures.
The Ukrainian Army is allegedly struggling with the loss of foliage as cover, the difficulty of building tracks in mud and snow, and the need for special fuel and lubricants, to name just a few.
Thakur elaborated that the limitations imposed on the Ukrainian HIMARS by the onset of winter have dented the ‘shoot and scoot’ capability of the system.
HIMARS launch rockets in rapid succession and then quickly hide behind foliage cover, such as in a nearby forest. The issue is that there is no greenery to hide beneath during the winter. This virtually leaves the weapon system exposed to the Russian troops.




File Image: HIMARS
Due to this, Russian drones, satellites, and airborne assets such as the Tu-214R can detect HIMARS more readily.
The Tu-214R is a Russian reconnaissance aircraft fitted with cutting-edge optical and electronic equipment and radar systems. The Russian Aerospace Forces allegedly deployed the aircraft in Syria in 2016. According to reports, the aircraft has been pressed into service against Ukraine.
Not just that, Russia has also accelerated satellite launches for navigation and to further its reconnaissance missions. On November 28, Russia added another piece to its GLONASS satellite navigation network.
GLONASS is the Russian equivalent of GPS. Going solely by these indicators, Russia may have focused its eye on defeating the HIMARS.
EurAsian Times reported in November that Russia had deployed its own Tornado-S Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) to combat the HIMARS. Notably, the Tornado-S has a firing range of 120 kilometers as opposed to the 100 kilometers range of the Ukrainian HIMARS.




Tornado-S MLRS (Twitter)
In addition, US M142 HIMARS can fire six GPS-guided 227mm rockets that can reach 80 kilometers and are accurate within five to ten meters. In contrast, the Russian 9A54 Tornado-S systems can fire twelve 300mm GLONASS-guided rockets at 120 kilometers with the same accuracy as HIMARS and have a three-minute reduced launch readiness time.
Due to the increased exposure of HIMARS to Russian reconnaissance and missiles, the HIMARS launch points have allegedly reduced now. Russia is believed to have deployed more reconnaissance drones, which can spot & recognize HIMARS tracks in mud and snow leading to the revelation of their current location.
Thakur backed his argument against HIMARS by saying that the US previously operated HIMARS in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. The MLRS is adapted to sand and heat but is yet to operate in temperatures around -20 degrees Celsius, typical of Russian winters, which are exacerbated by wind chill from the forest-steppe zone.
On its part, the US is planning to make the HIMARS more lethal. The Pentagon is reportedly considering a proposal to supply Ukraine with a cheap, small, precision Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB) fitted onto abundantly available rockets, allowing Kyiv to strike far behind Russian lines.
The GLSDB is launched using a multiple-launch rocket system (MLRS), and the Ukrainian forces can use the bombs without extensive retraining or modification to their existing HIMARS MLRS.

*Contact the author at sakshi.tiwari9555 (at) gmail.com*
*Follow EurAsian Times on Google News*
https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php...o-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...cks-for-russian-military/&via=THEEURASIATIMES
https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=...o-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/
https://reddit.com/submit?url=https...ary+Thanks+To+New+Upgrades+&+Freezing+Winters
https://eurasiantimes.com/at-20c-himars-to-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/?amp



F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine striked two Russian strategic bombers deep in Russian territory yesterday.


THis is why AMerica loses wars- focuses on small irrelevant pieces, while making it sure it will lose the long term end game - the compromise of Russian airspace is main issue here- the damage to the base wont change much in this war or give Ukraine any serious advantage. Ukraine should figure out how it will survive the winter and Russia this winter.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600129006220632064

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> 1600km combat radius, with an air to air configuration, 0 room for maneuver, at high altitude flight.


air to air configuration is all about maneuverability, F-14 could do it with 6 x AIM-54 and if it could do with that 6x monstrosity hang of its belly then I'm sure flanker also can do it .


Beny Karachun said:


> Give it a few tons of bombs, add the fact it those aircraft often have to maneuver to evade SAMs and that they lack targeting pods and smart bombs that force them into low altitude bombing, this 1600km radius quickly becomes sub-1000km radius.


and who use su-35 for bombing anyway m they still have enough of other variants to drop FAB bombs with



thetutle said:


> The same one was launched from russia, flew over several NATO countries and landed in the Croatian capital. A capital city of a NATO country. Admittedly, Croatia doesnt have air defences, but still. I dont know if anyone has good air defences, this seems to be happening to everyone.
> 
> Air defences seem to work when you know who is launching a missile, from where and when. Like when Gazans laugh missiles at Israel. Anything more sophisticated than that or from a larger area, seems to get through.


that same one later proved to be launched from Ukraine not Russia and Croatia confirmed that but they said it probably was not intentional and was the result of problem in INS , Somebody may ask how was the nature of the problem that after being so off its target it manage to hit in middle of the Zagreb instead of any place else , what would be the chance of that .








‘Jarunski’ dron pripadao je ukrajinskim vojnim snagama


Bespilotna le...




www.nacional.hr


----------



## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Picture of strike on the airbases from yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 903393


Looks like 3 Air Base was hit last night, not just Engel 

One in Kursk and the other one in Dyagilevo


----------



## Hack-Hook

Ali_Baba said:


> Picture of strike on the airbases from yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 903393


seems didn't hit the airplane but something parked beside it or lateral wall of the hanger


----------



## thetutle

Hack-Hook said:


> that same one later proved to be launched from Ukraine not Russia and Croatia confirmed that but they said it probably was not intentional and was the result of problem in INS , Somebody may ask how was the nature of the problem that after being so off its target it manage to hit in middle of the Zagreb instead of any place else , what would be the chance of that .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Jarunski’ dron pripadao je ukrajinskim vojnim snagama
> 
> 
> Bespilotna le...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nacional.hr


It doesn't matter who fired it, what matters is that it crossed many NATO countries without anyone having any idea what it is or who fired it.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

thetutle said:


> The same one was launched from russia, flew over several NATO countries and landed in the Croatian capital. A capital city of a NATO country. Admittedly, Croatia doesnt have air defences, but still. I dont know if anyone has good air defences, this seems to be happening to everyone.
> 
> Air defences seem to work when you know who is launching a missile, from where and when. Like when Gazans laugh missiles at Israel. Anything more sophisticated than that or from a larger area, seems to get through.



The real question is how the heck the Russians doesn't AAD their base against the country they are at war. 

Either Russian incompetence or that Russian AD just suck.

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## LeGenD

925boy said:


> ANd here's another one:
> 
> At -20°C, HIMARS To Become ‘Sitting Ducks’ For Russian Military Thanks To New Upgrades & Freezing Winters​By
> Sakshi Tiwari
> -
> December 4, 2022
> https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https://eurasiantimes.com/at-20c-himars-to-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/
> https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=At+-20°C,+HIMARS+To+Become+‘Sitting+Ducks’+For+Russian+Military+Thanks+To+New+Upgrades+&+Freezing+Winters&url=https://eurasiantimes.com/at-20c-himars-to-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/&via=THEEURASIATIMES
> https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=At+-20°C,+HIMARS+To+Become+‘Sitting+Ducks’+For+Russian+Military+Thanks+To+New+Upgrades+&+Freezing+Winters https://eurasiantimes.com/at-20c-himars-to-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/
> https://reddit.com/submit?url=https://eurasiantimes.com/at-20c-himars-to-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/&title=At+-20°C,+HIMARS+To+Become+‘Sitting+Ducks’+For+Russian+Military+Thanks+To+New+Upgrades+&+Freezing+Winters
> 
> *The United States Army has awarded Lockheed Martin a $431 million contract to produce M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System launchers at full capacity to rapidly replenish the inventories of the United States and its allies.*
> 
> However, new Russian claims suggest that the ‘game changer’ HIMARS could soon lose its sheen.
> The HIMARS started arriving in Ukraine in the summer and have turned the tide of the war in Kyiv’s favor ever since, earning the reputation of a ‘game changer’ in the ongoing conflict.
> The US has reportedly supplied about 20 units of the system to Kyiv, with more in the pipeline. However, the invading Russian forces have found a way around these lethal Ukrainian systems.
> A Russian air defense unit commander in the Zaporizhzhia region recently informed the local Russian media that the country’s air defense forces have received new software that allows them to shoot down HIMARS MLRS missiles “without difficulties.”
> In addition, the Director of the MGIMO Center for Military-Political Studies, Alexei Podberezkin, explained that to destroy the HIMARS rocket, which is fairly long, an air defense missile has to strike accurately at its warhead. Because HIMARS are fired at extremely long range, it’s essential to calculate their course accurately.
> This is because minor errors in course calculation will cause the air defense missile, fired from very close to the intended target, to miss hitting the warhead. The software update allows the precise calculation, of course, so that the rocket warhead is struck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia allegedly captured the HIMARS rocket.
> If the Russian claims are anything to go by, the Russian troops would be encouraged with a better understanding of the HIMARS MLRS and better means to shoot down the incoming projectiles fired from the system.
> 
> Earlier, there were reports that Russia had captured an intact missile fired from HIMARS and was examining it. These claims are also significant as they come when Russia has gone on a missile-firing rampage on Ukraine’s energy targets.
> Meanwhile, a Russian officer of the 1st army corps of the Donetsk region recently told Russian news agency RIA Novosti, “the intensity of the use of the MLRS HIMARS by the enemy has significantly decreased” following the onset of winter.
> *End Of HIMARS Havoc? *​Indian Air Force veteran and military analyst Vijainder K Thakur told the EurAsian Times that the HIMARS Multiple Launch Rocket Systems are unsuitable for combat operations in the autumn and winter seasons in the East European region.
> The expert, an avid Russia watcher, says that the defending Ukrainian troops were plagued with several issues due to the onset of winter and the sub-zero temperatures.
> The Ukrainian Army is allegedly struggling with the loss of foliage as cover, the difficulty of building tracks in mud and snow, and the need for special fuel and lubricants, to name just a few.
> Thakur elaborated that the limitations imposed on the Ukrainian HIMARS by the onset of winter have dented the ‘shoot and scoot’ capability of the system.
> HIMARS launch rockets in rapid succession and then quickly hide behind foliage cover, such as in a nearby forest. The issue is that there is no greenery to hide beneath during the winter. This virtually leaves the weapon system exposed to the Russian troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> File Image: HIMARS
> Due to this, Russian drones, satellites, and airborne assets such as the Tu-214R can detect HIMARS more readily.
> The Tu-214R is a Russian reconnaissance aircraft fitted with cutting-edge optical and electronic equipment and radar systems. The Russian Aerospace Forces allegedly deployed the aircraft in Syria in 2016. According to reports, the aircraft has been pressed into service against Ukraine.
> Not just that, Russia has also accelerated satellite launches for navigation and to further its reconnaissance missions. On November 28, Russia added another piece to its GLONASS satellite navigation network.
> GLONASS is the Russian equivalent of GPS. Going solely by these indicators, Russia may have focused its eye on defeating the HIMARS.
> EurAsian Times reported in November that Russia had deployed its own Tornado-S Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) to combat the HIMARS. Notably, the Tornado-S has a firing range of 120 kilometers as opposed to the 100 kilometers range of the Ukrainian HIMARS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tornado-S MLRS (Twitter)
> In addition, US M142 HIMARS can fire six GPS-guided 227mm rockets that can reach 80 kilometers and are accurate within five to ten meters. In contrast, the Russian 9A54 Tornado-S systems can fire twelve 300mm GLONASS-guided rockets at 120 kilometers with the same accuracy as HIMARS and have a three-minute reduced launch readiness time.
> Due to the increased exposure of HIMARS to Russian reconnaissance and missiles, the HIMARS launch points have allegedly reduced now. Russia is believed to have deployed more reconnaissance drones, which can spot & recognize HIMARS tracks in mud and snow leading to the revelation of their current location.
> Thakur backed his argument against HIMARS by saying that the US previously operated HIMARS in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. The MLRS is adapted to sand and heat but is yet to operate in temperatures around -20 degrees Celsius, typical of Russian winters, which are exacerbated by wind chill from the forest-steppe zone.
> On its part, the US is planning to make the HIMARS more lethal. The Pentagon is reportedly considering a proposal to supply Ukraine with a cheap, small, precision Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB) fitted onto abundantly available rockets, allowing Kyiv to strike far behind Russian lines.
> The GLSDB is launched using a multiple-launch rocket system (MLRS), and the Ukrainian forces can use the bombs without extensive retraining or modification to their existing HIMARS MLRS.
> 
> *Contact the author at sakshi.tiwari9555 (at) gmail.com*
> *Follow EurAsian Times on Google News*
> https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https://eurasiantimes.com/at-20c-himars-to-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/
> https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=At+-20°C,+HIMARS+To+Become+‘Sitting+Ducks’+For+Russian+Military+Thanks+To+New+Upgrades+&+Freezing+Winters&url=https://eurasiantimes.com/at-20c-himars-to-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/&via=THEEURASIATIMES
> https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=At+-20°C,+HIMARS+To+Become+‘Sitting+Ducks’+For+Russian+Military+Thanks+To+New+Upgrades+&+Freezing+Winters https://eurasiantimes.com/at-20c-himars-to-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/
> https://reddit.com/submit?url=https://eurasiantimes.com/at-20c-himars-to-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/&title=At+-20°C,+HIMARS+To+Become+‘Sitting+Ducks’+For+Russian+Military+Thanks+To+New+Upgrades+&+Freezing+Winters
> https://eurasiantimes.com/at-20c-himars-to-becomes-sitting-ducks-for-russian-military/?amp
> 
> 
> THis is why AMerica loses wars- focuses on small irrelevant pieces, while making it sure it will lose the long term end game - the compromise of Russian airspace is main issue here- the damage to the base wont change much in this war or give Ukraine any serious advantage. Ukraine should figure out how it will survive the winter and Russia this winter.



Russia does not have the technological capability to intercept HIMARS rockets mid-flight.

Eurasian Times? Seriously?

HIMARS is NOT about sheer rocket count or being the biggest and baddest on paper for public consumption. HIMARS is all about well-calculated combination of Mobility and Precision that is helpful to produce significant battlefield effects on the ground. It has demonstrated its potential in this war and spooked Russian forces at large.

And HIMARS is a small part of the American war-machine. 

And what has Russia shown in Ukraine that impresses you so much? US-led forces overran entire Iraq in 21 days in 2003.

Russia is fighting a much less capable army in Ukraine, mind you. When Russia will be up against an opponent like US-led forces in any theater, WE will see what it can do. Oh wait, WE already saw a trailer in the Battle of khasham in Syria in 2018.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600114762473349121


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600124889091829760
> Ukraine striked two Russian strategic bombers deep in Russian territory yesterday.




There was no proof presented that two Russian bombers were hit. They only hot a fuel tanker from the Russian side. That is what is reported from their end. Now, bring proof or get over running with non-provable claims.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The second best armed forces in the world everybody. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599854402025627648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599874411431366656

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## Vergennes

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The second best armed forces in the world everybody.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599854402025627648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599874411431366656




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600058233661497344
The second world's best army that was supposed to take Europe in 48 hours.

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## That Guy

PakFactor said:


> I'm sure Turkey is pleased with its decision to stick with the S-400 and forgo the F-35... NOT.
> At this point, the Russians should nuke themselves.


S-400 is a good system. In fact, Russian air defense SAMs are still a golden standard.

It's just that the Russians are incompetent.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

LeGenD said:


> Russia does not have the technological capability to intercept HIMARS rockets mid-flight.
> 
> Eurasian Times? Seriously?
> 
> HIMARS is NOT about sheer rocket count or being the biggest and baddest on paper for public consumption. HIMARS is all about well-calculated combination of Mobility and Precision that is helpful to produce significant battlefield effects on the ground. It has demonstrated its potential in this war and spooked Russian forces at large.
> 
> And HIMARS is a small part of the American war-machine.
> 
> And what has Russia shown in Ukraine that impresses you so much? US-led forces overran entire Iraq in 21 days in 2003.
> 
> Russia is fighting a much less capable army in Ukraine, mind you. When Russia will be up against an opponent like US-led forces in any theater, WE will see what it can do. Oh wait, WE already saw a trailer in the Battle of khasham in Syria in 2018.




Iraqis were resisting from 2003 till 2017 when the last battle took place in Mosul. We should understand that the height of battles took place in Fallujah, Ramadi, Hadith, and other towns in central and northern Iraq in 2008. So it was not 21 days but over 14 years. 

Former presidential candidate Senator John McCain admitted in the 2008 presidential debates that the US was on the brink of being defeated had General Petraeus not struck agreements with the Awakening Council in the Sunni heartland in Iraq.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600112329059958786


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## thetutle

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The real question is how the heck the Russians doesn't AAD their base against the country they are at war.
> 
> Either Russian incompetence or that Russian AD just suck.



But what im saying is that basically all AD sucks. Look at Saudi fuel tanks and Israeli ship which had something like AEGIS radar on it was hit. I'm begging to think AD for most part is a money making scam or a work in progress. I dont know what air defence Pakistan has but US just flew helicopters in to get bin laden, noone had any idea they were coming. 

I remember in the bombing of Serbia in 1999, the serbs launched 2 MiG-29's from Belgrade to hit a US base in Bosnia. those Migs got within 45km of the US base. US and everything there to protect the base, AWACS, fighters, patriots, close in air defence, you know what downed those Migs? An F16. So watching all this, I'm not that convinced air defence is generally very good anywhere. 



LeGenD said:


> And what has Russia shown in Ukraine that impresses you so much? US-led forces overran entire Iraq in 21 days in 2003.
> 
> Russia is fighting a much less capable army in Ukraine, mind you.


I would say Iraq had a much weaker army than Ukatine. All Iraqi weapons were Ukranian and Russian anyway. Ukraine was the second most powerful republic in the Soviet Union. twice the population of Iraq in 1991. and very industrialised.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600112300504948737

Only USA and Ukraine voted "No" against that resolution that condemned NAZISM and Neo-Nazism. The whole EU abstained. That is what you need to understand about Western elites.

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Iraqis were resisting from 2003 till 2017 when the last battle took place in Mosul. We should understand that the height of battles took place in Fallujah, Ramadi, Hadith, and other towns in central and northern Iraq in 2008. So it was not 21 days but over 14 years.
> 
> Former presidential candidate Senator John McCain admitted in the 2008 presidential debates that the US was on the brink of being defeated had General Petraeus not struck agreements with the Awakening Council in the Sunni heartland in Iraq.


You're comparing an insurgency to a conventional war.

So fat almost all of your replies and comments have been intellectually dishonest.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600151315371347968

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600143424207798273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600142096869908481

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600114762473349121
> 
> 
> 
> There was no proof presented that two Russian bombers were hit. They only hot a fuel tanker from the Russian side. That is what is reported from their end. Now, bring proof or get over running with non-provable claims.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600128004113342464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599832834360811520

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The Bakhmut meat grinder is taking a heavy toll on NATO's cannon fodder aka Ukrainian army.



Spoiler: 500 casuaties per day is brought in. The attrition rate is staggering on NATO's cannon fodder





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600137808563167233

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600155271438823424

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600128004113342464
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599832834360811520




Unless Russians confirm it, your and others' claims are just hogwash.

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600112300504948737
> 
> Only USA and Ukraine voted "No" against that resolution that condemned NAZISM and Neo-Nazism. The whole EU abstained. That is what you need to understand about Western elites.


So I looked into the resolution, it's 26 pages long, and it's generic as ****. Doesn't really solve anything, or even say anything of substance.

It's actually kinda dumb and something you'd expect a edgy social justice obsessed college student to write.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600101574205808640

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Unless Russians confirm it, your and others' claims are just hogwash.


Ah yes, let's believe obvious propaganda from an obviously bias source that's an active belligerent in the war.

What a good idea. 👍

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600155271438823424




West's best drones or cruise missiles are now now being camouflaged as "40 year old giant drone". Just like the HIMMARS booga booga, just a matter of time before this pravado is busted as well.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600101574205808640




If your claim is true, where is the pilot? If you have his helmet, where is him or his body? These wilds claims are unbeleivable. More like throw it out there and see what sticks.

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> West's best drones or cruise missiles are now now being camouflaged as "40 year old giant drone". Just like the HIMMARS booga booga, just a matter of time before this pravado is busted as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your claim is true, where is the pilot? If you have his helmet, where is him or his body? These wilds claims are unbeleivable. More like throw it out there and see what sticks.


Don't you get tired of lying and spreading misinformation?

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## Deino

That Guy said:


> Don't you get tired of lying and spreading misinformation?




No, a paid Russian or pro-Russian keyboard warrior never gets tired for spreading lies and propaganda!

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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Iraqis were resisting from 2003 till 2017 when the last battle took place in Mosul. We should understand that the height of battles took place in Fallujah, Ramadi, Hadith, and other towns in central and northern Iraq in 2008. So it was not 21 days but over 14 years.
> 
> Former presidential candidate Senator John McCain admitted in the 2008 presidential debates that the US was on the brink of being defeated had General Petraeus not struck agreements with the Awakening Council in the Sunni heartland in Iraq.



These were intermittent battles reflecting Iraqi insurgency model of warfare which was DEADLY in its own right. Iraqi can FIGHT unlike some countries in the Middle East - these people are descendants of the ancient Mesopotamia after all.

I responded to OP in the context of NATO and what it can do. He continues to speak with ignorance as usual.

Russian army is very large and well-equipped to fight a regional power *but *NATO is the reason *WHY* Russia has FAILED to take over entire Ukraine and some of its gains were reversed by now. I can explain this in detail if necessary. NATO has leveled the playing field for Ukraine in this war. This is not to take away from Ukrainian fighting spirit. It is the combination of man and machine in the end.

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## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600128004113342464
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599832834360811520



If they can hit Rayazan, then surely they can take out power to Moscow, see how the russians like winter without power in their major cities, a lot colder than Kiev

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600129006220632064



that is some very precise work!!! must be guided munitions of some type.


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## kingQamaR

Ali_Baba said:


> that is some very precise work!!! must be guided munitions of some type.



these are Ukrainian made drones, not USA ones. While sophisticated western weapons make the headlines, the vast majority of weapons on both sides are old soviet stocks. During the time of the Soviet Union all the best weaponry came from Ukraine



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Unless Russians confirm it, your and others' claims are just hogwash.



Reading RT is like asking a convicted criminal his side of the story. I'm innocent your honer, I tell you i'm innocent.

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## LeGenD

thetutle said:


> But what im saying is that basically all AD sucks. Look at Saudi fuel tanks and Israeli ship which had something like AEGIS radar on it was hit. I'm begging to think AD for most part is a money making scam or a work in progress. I dont know what air defence Pakistan has but US just flew helicopters in to get bin laden, noone had any idea they were coming.
> 
> I remember in the bombing of Serbia in 1999, the serbs launched 2 MiG-29's from Belgrade to hit a US base in Bosnia. those Migs got within 45km of the US base. US and everything there to protect the base, AWACS, fighters, patriots, close in air defence, you know what downed those Migs? An F16. So watching all this, I'm not that convinced air defence is generally very good anywhere.
> 
> 
> I would say Iraq had a much weaker army than Ukatine. All Iraqi weapons were Ukranian and Russian anyway. Ukraine was the second most powerful republic in the Soviet Union. twice the population of Iraq in 1991. and very industrialised.



Saudi air defenses are composed of point defense systems in large part with radar coverage gaps that could be exploited by Houthi and Iran from time-to-time. Check following posts one by one for perspective:






Pakistan officially inducts HQ 9 Air Defence system


Correct - not only was it there a while ago but the Indians too were aware of it being there after a few months in country. Currently Ravi Nirudkar at Raytheon is making his pitch for a large AARGM purchase by India but is being countered by DRDO with Rudram. Hopefully the DRDO guys prevail so...



defence.pk










How Many Nuclear Missiles Can the United States Intercept?


Mach 24 when outside the atmosphere. Within the atmosphere the warheads are drastically slower. Interception of ballistic missiles is possible, basically at all stages, depending on the location of launch. Decoy detecting methods exist. Arrow 3, Arrow 4, GMD and other laser/satellite based...



defence.pk










Why Pakistan unable to develop its own Air defence System


They made a difference in the Battle of Kiev. SAM based AD are not effective against modern drones and missiles. This has been proven booth in the ME and Ukraine. Considering the costs of modern SAM AD systems.....are they worth it?? Not really, IMO. Resources are better spent on offensive...



defence.pk










Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2


A lot of Russian attacks today..



defence.pk










Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2


A lot of Russian attacks today..



defence.pk





Saudi air defenses have blunted numerous attacks as well so credit where due. It is not easy to intercept ballistic missiles.

- - -

INS Hanit does not have AEGIS and it is much less of a warship in comparison to sophisticated destroyers out there.







Compare with performance of USS Mason in 2016:






USS Mason encountered and neutralized 7 anti-ship cruise missiles in Yemeni waters in 2016


"On three separate dates in October 2016, the USS Mason (DDG-87), USS Nitze (DDG-94), USS San Antonio (LPD-17), and USS Ponce (AFSB-15) came under attack while operating off the western coast of Yemen, near the Strait of Bab-el-Mandeb. While all four ships were not always operating together as a...



defence.pk





An Arleigh Burke class warship is like a moving fortress in the seas. But very expensive as well.

- - -

Pakistani air defenses are good enough for stopping Indian airborne threats but US is another ballgame in comparison. US has vastly superior technology and have developed much better battle tactics than Indians courtesy of its vast battlefield experience. I will not fault Pakistan in this matter. Mine is a country of limited resources and I have realistic expectations from it.

- - -

Even if Iraq had some big ticket items such as S-300 systems and a functioning Air Force, these would have made no difference whatsoever when up against a war-machine like NATO. The REAL FIGHT was on the ground and mostly around (and inside) Iraqi cities.









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


In my view the objective of this conflict is to overthrow Putin and install a puppet government in Russia. Someone like Yeltzin. A side benefit is that Germany and Europe come under Anglo-Zionist control, which has already happened. If Putin is overthrown I will accept that Russia lost. If he...



defence.pk





US-led forces suffered significant set backs in the *Battle of Nasiriyah* in fact - the FIRST MAJOR BATTLE of war in Iraq on the ground. Even though thousands of Iraqi combatants lost their lives in this battle and US-led forces were able to secure Nasiriyah, Iraqi General Raad Hamdani credited battle in this city for motivating Iraqi forces to FIGHT in other locations by and large, in a series of his interviews.

YOU cannot take over a country by force and execute REGIME CHANGE there until or unless YOU can secure its cities. Your forces must be well-equipped for URBAN WARFARE therefore.

It is the main battle tank (MBT) that provides the required level of MOBILITY and PUNCH to move forward and secure "areas of interest." American and British MBTs are not only mobile but pack a significant PUNCH and are SURVIVABLE. American and British MBTs could take multiple hits and survive in Iraqi urban spaces.

The problem of Russian MBTs is that they are NOT survivable. Similarly, Ukrainian MBTs are NOT survivable. This shortcoming has FORCED both camps to OVER RELY upon artillery pieces to secure "areas of interest." This is why either camp is SLOW to make advances.

Russian forces have FAILED to take over much of Ukraine and execute REGIME CHANGE there because its MBTs are NOT survivable. Russian battle tactics are also less developed than that of NATO.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600168330932867073

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## jhungary

Deino said:


> No, a paid Russian or pro-Russian keyboard warrior never gets tired for spreading lies and propaganda!


That's because either that or their commissar would put them on the frontline.........

Who wants to be cannon fodder for Russia anyway, much rather stay behind being a keyboard warrior than a real one......

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600112300504948737
> 
> Only USA and Ukraine voted "No" against that resolution that condemned NAZISM and Neo-Nazism. The whole EU abstained. That is what you need to understand about Western elites.


The West voted no or abstained against a resolution that was targetting freedom of speech. Nazism is handled in courts.
We are waiting for the Russian cockroaches to be prosecuted for their war crimes.
It is the duty of the Russian Federation to prosecute, and they are failing with this as with everything else in the war.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

That Guy said:


> Don't you get tired of lying and spreading misinformation?



That is probably in his work description.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600215276494069762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600208108516569089

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## 925boy

That Guy said:


> It's just that the Russians are incompetent.


So how can incompetent people make a competent system? (which you admitted by saying below):



> S-400 is a good system. In fact, Russian air defense SAMs are still a golden standard.

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## The SC

Interesting updates on the front lines..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600259169403052032

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## Titanium100

Russia could throw the entire sink in my opinion due to Ukraine's drone attacks on Russia.. This is like puking the Bear a bit to far.. This could occur very soon.

This is escalating to be fairly honest even more then I realized previously. The Russians will come down hard and might expand into NATO countries neighbouring Russia

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## fallschirmjager786

Titanium100 said:


> Russia could throw the entire sink in my opinion due to Ukraine's drone attacks on Russia.. This is like puking the Bear a bit to far.. This could occur very soon.
> 
> This is escalating to be fairly honest even more then I realized previously. The Russians will come down hard and might expand into NATO countries neighbouring Russia



Can't escalate anymore than Russia already has. What are they going to do different??

And expand into NATO???? lol. Based on your flag, you'd be in the firing line, maybe start packing your bags?

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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> You don’t get the picture. The reason why Ukraine can attack targets deep inside Russia is: Russia air defense sucks. Or weak to non existent, because many of those systems are deployed in Ukraine to protect Russia invasion army.
> Putin is so obsessed with attacking Ukraine civil infra that he even decimates Russia air defense.
> For instance Russia S300 anti aircraft systems are reprogrammed as land attack missiles.
> 
> Wait until a Ukraine drone drops a bomb thru Putin’s dining room.


And why they target airbases instead other nearer more valious targets?

I thing the reason is Ukrainian drones use Russian airplanes coming back home as umbrella for Russian ground radars, so they only can attack targets in that path.

But I think, Russian airplanes dont have any kind of radar to detect drones? maybe Russian airplanes radars are very simple and it can't detect drones flying low near to them.



Viet said:


> What money?
> You can only get money if you can sell.
> No, russian elites don’t buy Lada. They buy overpriced BMW or French bags.
> 
> Even Putin, the hooligan, loves Mercedes when visiting the damaged Crimea bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's Putin drives across repaired bridge to Crimea
> 
> 
> MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin tried to boost Russian morale Monday by driving a vehicle across a bridge to Crimea that a truck bomb had damaged in October. Putin took the wheel of a Mercedes to drive across the bridge that links Russia’s mainland with the Crimean Peninsula...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com


They can't sell to the West, but China will buy all the energy they can buy and even more.


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## BHAN85

Maybe Russian airplanes radar have some blackout point around them, Ukraine knows it, and they move the drones always in the same point from the Russian airplane to avoid detection.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

That Guy said:


> You're comparing an insurgency to a conventional war.
> 
> So fat almost all of your replies and comments have been intellectually dishonest.




Insurgency is a weaker opponent's way of weakening the resolve of a much powerful adversary. 

Don't get personal; if you don't like my comments, you can put me in your ignore.



That Guy said:


> Don't you get tired of lying and spreading misinformation?



It seems my comments are getting into someone's skin. Sorry, they are not stopping any soon.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600199819401666560
Oops, that is what putting a price cap on Russian oil and gas gets you. That is what happens when sanctions have the opposite effect. Sweet.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600293252128653312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600265522918363137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600228745045897217

It looks like a hell has been unleashed on Western elites' cannon fodder.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600134225058897921

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600236249997901825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600232945238753280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600231845387415552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599754642597982208

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600282423006486528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600282740829876224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600282891769872384

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600222905207779328


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## The SC

Defense minister of Russia, Shoigu: The Ukrainian losses during the month of November amount to 8300 KIA, 5 planes and 10 helicopters,149 tanks, more than 300 armored vehicles..

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## khansaheeb

Russia-Ukraine WarState Department Walks Careful Line On Russian Attacks​Dec. 6, 2022Updated 6:30 p.m. ET

Give this article











Bakhmut, UkraineFew remaining residents venture out on the streets.
Tyler Hicks/The New York Times


Kursk, RussiaDrone strike hits Russian air base.
MIC Izvestia/IZ.RU via Reuters

Bakhmut, UkraineA Ukrainian armored personnel carrier.
Tyler Hicks/The New York Times

Kharkiv, UkraineAttending the funeral of Volodymyr Vakulenko, a Ukrainian writer.
Sergey Kozlov/EPA, via Shutterstock

Vyshhorod, Ukraine
Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images

Malotaranivka, UkraineThe aftermath of a missile attack at a school.
Tyler Hicks/The New York Times

Bakhmut, UkraineMedics helping an injured soldier at a frontline hospital.
Chris Mcgrath/Getty Images

Odesa, UkraineCommuting during a power cut.
Oleksandr Gimanov/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

Kyiv, UkraineSheltering in a metro station during strikes.
Laura Boushnak for The New York Times



















Here’s what we know:​After two days of drone attacks inside Russia, a State Department spokesman said the United States was not “enabling Ukraine to strike beyond its borders.”

The U.S. stopped short of condemning attacks inside Russia, but said it did not encourage them.
The latest drone strike hits an oil facility near an air base 80 miles from the Ukrainian border.
Experts say its likely old Soviet surveillance drones were used to strike inside Russia.
Western officials see little immediate threat of Russia escalating over strikes within its territory.
A timeline of attacks on Russian territory during the Ukraine war.
Embassies in Denmark and Romania receive ‘dangerous parcels,’ Ukraine says.
Russia strikes Ukraine’s energy grid on one of the coldest days of the year.











Russia-Ukraine War: State Department Walks Careful Line On Russian Attacks


After two days of drone attacks inside Russia, a State Department spokesman said the United States was not “enabling Ukraine to strike beyond its borders.”




www.nytimes.com





The U.S. stopped short of condemning attacks inside Russia, but said it did not encourage them.​
Image




Ned Price, the State Department spokesman, said the United States is not encouraging Ukraine to strike beyond its borders.Credit...Pool photo by Andrew Harnik





The United States is not encouraging Ukraine to attack Russian targets beyond its borders, a State Department spokesman said on Tuesday, after two days of what appeared to be Ukrainian drone strikes on military bases deep within Russian territory.
“We are not enabling Ukraine to strike beyond its borders. We are not encouraging Ukraine to strike beyond its borders,” Ned Price, the State Department spokesman, said at a daily news briefing. Drones struck an oil facility near an air base in Russia on Tuesday, a local official said, just a day after Ukraine used drones to hit two military bases deep inside the country, one of the most brazen attacks of the nine-month-old war. The strikes inside Russian territory have raised fears that the war might escalate.
Washington has so far resisted requests from Kyiv to provide Ukraine with long-range weapons — like missiles and fighter jets — that would be capable of reaching deep into Russia.
Mr. Price cautioned that he was not aware of any official claims of responsibility for the drone attacks that have been widely attributed to Ukraine. He said that the United States is focused on the goal of helping Ukraine recover territory seized by Russian forces.
While Mr. Price stopped short of condemning Ukrainian attacks within Russia, his clear emphasis was on U.S. support for operations inside Ukraine’s borders.
“Everything we are doing, everything the world is doing to support Ukraine, is in support of Ukraine’s independence, its sovereignty, its territorial integrity,” Mr. Price said. “We are providing Ukraine with what it needs to use on its sovereign territory, on Ukrainian soil, to take on Russian aggressors.”
Asked at a Monday evening conference sponsored by The Wall Street Journal whether the United States was concerned that strikes within Russia could escalate the conflict, Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken said America’s focus was on ensuring that Ukraine could defend itself and “take back territory that’s been seized from it since February 24th.”
It was unclear whether Mr. Blinken’s mention of the Feb. 24 lines was deliberate. Before its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on that date, Russia already occupied much of the country’s eastern Donbas region, as well as Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula, which the Kremlin annexed in 2014.
Asked on Tuesday whether the U.S. draws any distinction between Ukrainian land seized by Russia after its Feb. 24 invasion of the country and territory it was occupying previously, Mr. Price demurred.
“It’s a question for the Ukrainian government. It is not a question for the U.S. government,” he said.
— Michael Crowley

The latest drone strike hits an oil facility near an air base 80 miles from the Ukrainian border.​Video


00:00

0:22


0:22Drone Attacks Hit Russia for 2nd Straight Day
A blast at a Russian airfield came a day after Ukraine appeared to use drones to target two military bases deep inside Russia.CreditCredit...MIC Izvestia/IZ.RU via Reuters
KYIV, Ukraine — Drones struck an oil facility near an air base in Russia on Tuesday, a local official said, just a day after Ukraine appeared to use drones to hit two military bases deep inside the country, one of the most brazen attacks of the nine-month-old war. 
Ukraine has not explicitly claimed responsibility for the attacks on either day, following its practice regarding military actions inside Russia. Russian officials did not directly accuse Ukraine in Tuesday’s attack, which hit an oil depot in the Kursk region, 80 miles from the border.
But the back-to-back drone strikes over two days were widely seen as another sign of Kyiv’s willingness to bring the war closer to Moscow.
Ukraine’s attacks far inside Russia’s border have altered the geography of the war, showing holes in Moscow’s air defense and signaling a determination to make Russia pay a heavier price for its unrelenting assault on Ukraine’s civilians.
After Monday’s strikes, Russia launched a volley of missiles at Ukraine that left half of the capital region of Kyiv without electricity and worsened rolling power outages across the country. Many Ukrainians have been without heat and water in frigid temperatures.
Monday’s attacks struck two military installations hundreds of miles inside the Russian border — the Engels airfield and the Dyagilevo military base — according to Russia’s Defense Ministry and a senior Ukrainian official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to convey sensitive information.
The drones were launched from Ukrainian territory, and in at least one of the strikes, Ukrainian special forces working near the base helped guide the drones to the target, the senior official said.
Yurii Ihnat, a spokesman for the Ukrainian Air Force, said that the damage to the airfield at Engels appeared minimal. “But it is an alarming signal for them,” he said on Ukrainian national television.
Image




An image released by the administration of the Kursk region of Russia on Tuesday showed smoke rising above the area near the Kursk airport.
Many of Ukraine’s Western allies have sought to avoid escalating the conflict and consistently declined to provide Kyiv with weapons that it could use to hit targets on Moscow’s territory. But Ukraine has shown that it is capable of developing its own arsenal. The Kremlin said that the attacks on Monday were carried out by Soviet-era jet drones.
Mick Ryan, a retired Australian Army officer, wrote on the Substack platform that the strikes on Monday had delivered “a psychological blow” to Russian people “who thought they were largely insulated from the effects of the war.” Dyagilevo lies about 100 miles from Moscow. 
The Engels airfield has been a launching pad for bombers involved in missile attacks against Ukraine’s energy grid, Ukrainian officials say.
The Kursk airfield that was targeted on Tuesday is not thought to be as strategically significant, but since Russia’s full-scale invasion in February has been a base for fighter jets, according to Ukrainian intelligence reports.
Russian forces also have used positions in Kursk to launch attacks on the neighboring Sumy region of Ukraine with mortars, artillery and rocket launchers, said Dmytro Zhyvytsky, the head of the Sumy regional military administration.
On Monday, Mr. Zhyvytsky said, Russian forces near the border struck a monastery in Sumy with rockets, damaging the administrative building and other structures.
“Two cows were killed by shrapnel,” he said. “People survived.”
— Marc Santora, Mike Ives and Ivan Nechepurenko
The State of the War​
*Striking Deep in Russia: *In its most brazen attack into Russian territory, Ukraine used drones to strike two military bases hundreds of miles inside Russia, showing an ability to take the war beyond its borders.
*Weaponizing Winter: *Russian attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure have left millions without power, heat or water as the snow begins to fall. The Daily looks at what life is like in Ukraine as winter sets in.
*Russian Oil Price Cap: *The E.U. agreed on a $60-a-barrel limit for Russian oil, the latest effort by Western allies to try to deprive Moscow of revenue to finance its war in Ukraine. Here’s how it will work.


----------



## SalarHaqq

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600112300504948737
> 
> Only USA and Ukraine voted "No" against that resolution that condemned NAZISM and Neo-Nazism. The whole EU abstained. That is what you need to understand about Western elites.



Imagine the exact same text had been the object of a proposed resolution by some party other than Russia, particularly a NATO regime or the zionist entity occupying Palestine. And let's suppose it was unrelated to the Ukrainian context.

Not only would western regimes have voted in favor, their streamlined media apparatus wouldn't have ceased glorifying the resolution's virtues. Dissident voices would've been railed as Nazi sympathizers, monsters, demons. NATO regime supporters, trolls and bot accounts alike would've been seen cheering on.

With the behavior they exhibited at this recent UNGA vote, NATO regimes once again proved several points.

Starting with the fact that the Ukrainian comprador clique they illegitimately brought to power through a "color revolution", propping it up ever since, is indeed inextricably interconnected with local neo-Nazi elements. Elements ordered by NATO to implement a moratorium on traditional Judeophobia (hence the tolerance exhibited by these neo-Nazis for a zionist Jew as Ukraine's president) and to focus their hatred on Russians and on Russians alone (although Roma seem to have been considered fair game as well, after scenes emerged of their abuse at the hands of regime-approved Kiovan extremists).

Hence why NATO member states needed to vote against this sort of a resolution in order to lend political cover to their protégés in Kiov. A most blatant act of self-contradiction we should add, since normally anything that evokes Nazism in the slightest manner is automatically considered anathema if not downright criminalized by those same western victors of WW2. In various countries of the west, citizens happen to be imprisoned as we speak, some of whom happen to be over eighty years of age, for expressing contrary opinions about the persecution of Jewish people during WW2.

Political schizophrenia and brazen mockery of the public rarely gets more salient than this. We're dealing with fundamentally deceitful regimes which no longer bother to at least come across as credible. Revolting is the hypocrisy, and so is the attitude of those who'd feign not to perceive it.

On a sidenote I believe some pages back, someone tried to suggest that the Russophobic neo-Nazi phenomenon in Ukraine is confined to the largely obliterated Azov regiment. This is not only false in the general sense, given the documented sympathies for Stepan Bandera expressed by numerous Kiovan officials who are not classified on the far right (so much so that a major shopping artery in the center of Kiov was renamed after Bandera - I wonder which 1% party can prompt such a move); but the contention is baseless when it comes to the Ukrainian armed forces as well: Azov by far were not the only such group. Truth is that multiple other ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi organizations continue to operate distinct units within the Kiovan military. They include the likes of Kraken, Sloboda's own militiamen and so on and so forth.

Let's not get into how the totally disproportionate political leverage of these entities exceeds their electoral relevance by magnitudes, which is why they were able to threaten former president Poroshenko so that he would allow them to keep violating the Minsk ceasefire agreements and shell Russian-speaking areas in the Donbas. That's also why in this regard, it's not relevant how many votes they received at elections.

In conclusion, allow me to express my gratitude for your steady engagement in favor of truth and justice on this thread. Do not pay attention to attempts at stifling your freedom of speech or denting your motivation through personal attacks. If a user resorts to such means, it's that they're acting out of desperation. Again, hats off to you brother and thanks for keeping us informed beyond the suffocating fog of manipulative NATO propaganda and lies.

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## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> Starting with the fact that the Ukrainian comprador clique they illegally brought to power through a "color revolution", propping them up ever since, is indeed inextricably interconnected with local neo-Nazi elements. Elements ordered by NATO to implement a moratorium on traditional Judeophobia (hence their tolerance for a zionist Jew as Ukraine's president) and to focus their hatred on Russians and on Russians alone (though Roma have de facto been considered fair game as well, after scenes emerged of their abuse at the hands of regime-approved Ukrainian extremists).





Have You been honest you will be able to say what you want in one line.

You use long sentences and fancy words , only to hide the fact you are not telling to truth and have very little to say .

The truth is , Zelenskyy was democratically elected as president by a vast majority of Ukrainians , while his country was invaded by a dictator.

The fact that he happens to be Jewish is irrelevant here , except to you , who try to peddle silly conspiracy theories that suits your hateful agenda,


~

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Insurgency is a weaker opponent's way of weakening the resolve of a much powerful adversary.
> 
> Don't get personal; if you don't like my comments, you can put me in your ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems my comments are getting into someone's skin. Sorry, they are not stopping any soon.


You have no clue how insurgencies work. Also, considering how you yourself have "gotten personal" using way worse language, don't expect me to be kind to you.

Finally, you comments are entertaining. They're actually amusing me, not getting under my skin. The amount of copium you're consuming is hilarious



925boy said:


> So can incompetent people make a competent system? (which you admitted by saying below):


Let me clarify. The Russian army is incompetent. Russian scientists and researchers are pretty decent.

To answer your question though, yes. Even idiots are perfectly capable of making something amazing.

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600058233661497344
> The second world's best army that was supposed to take Europe in 48 hours.


No reason to complain

Russia brings the war to Ukraine, so 100 percent justified for Ukraine to bring the war to Russia.

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> Defense minister of Russia, Shoigu: The Ukrainian losses during the month of November amount to 8300 KIA, 5 planes and 10 helicopters,149 tanks, more than 300 armored vehicles..


Lmao, sure.

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> And why they target airbases instead other nearer more valious targets?
> 
> I thing the reason is Ukrainian drones use Russian airplanes coming back home as umbrella for Russian ground radars, so they only can attack targets in that path.
> 
> But I think, Russian airplanes dont have any kind of radar to detect drones? maybe Russian airplanes radars are very simple and it can't detect drones flying low near to them.
> 
> 
> They can't sell to the West, but China will buy all the energy they can buy and even more.


You believe Chinese are dumb? No, they will not buy everything from Putin they will not fall into the same trap like the Europeans did. Even they want to buy there are lacks of infra, demands.

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## Beny Karachun

LeGenD said:


> INS Hanit does not have AEGIS and it is much less of a warship in comparison to sophisticated destroyers out there.


From what I've heard, the Hanit had its CIWS and Barak-1 missiles deactivated to not accidentally hit military/civilian aircraft nearby, which is a possibility, the Iron Dome once targeted an Israeli F-15, fortunately the missile commander self destructed the interceptor. Also the Hanit was too close to Lebanon, a mistake on Israel's behalf.

The radar system on the Hanit was the rotating EL/M-2258 ALPHA, as opposed to the more modern EL/M 2248 upgrade















Watch Israel test its anti-missile Barak weapon at sea


The defense system is key to protecting Israel’s four Sa’ar 6 corvettes that the country recently received and deployed.




www.defensenews.com





Barak-8 combined with the MF-STAR can easily take down any cruise missile.

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Saudi air defenses are composed of point defense systems in large part with radar coverage gaps that could be exploited by Houthi and Iran from time-to-time. Check following posts one by one for perspective:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan officially inducts HQ 9 Air Defence system
> 
> 
> Correct - not only was it there a while ago but the Indians too were aware of it being there after a few months in country. Currently Ravi Nirudkar at Raytheon is making his pitch for a large AARGM purchase by India but is being countered by DRDO with Rudram. Hopefully the DRDO guys prevail so...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Many Nuclear Missiles Can the United States Intercept?
> 
> 
> Mach 24 when outside the atmosphere. Within the atmosphere the warheads are drastically slower. Interception of ballistic missiles is possible, basically at all stages, depending on the location of launch. Decoy detecting methods exist. Arrow 3, Arrow 4, GMD and other laser/satellite based...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Pakistan unable to develop its own Air defence System
> 
> 
> They made a difference in the Battle of Kiev. SAM based AD are not effective against modern drones and missiles. This has been proven booth in the ME and Ukraine. Considering the costs of modern SAM AD systems.....are they worth it?? Not really, IMO. Resources are better spent on offensive...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2
> 
> 
> A lot of Russian attacks today..
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2
> 
> 
> A lot of Russian attacks today..
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi air defenses have blunted numerous attacks as well so credit where due. It is not easy to intercept ballistic missiles.
> 
> - - -
> 
> INS Hanit does not have AEGIS and it is much less of a warship in comparison to sophisticated destroyers out there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compare with performance of USS Mason in 2016:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USS Mason encountered and neutralized 7 anti-ship cruise missiles in Yemeni waters in 2016
> 
> 
> "On three separate dates in October 2016, the USS Mason (DDG-87), USS Nitze (DDG-94), USS San Antonio (LPD-17), and USS Ponce (AFSB-15) came under attack while operating off the western coast of Yemen, near the Strait of Bab-el-Mandeb. While all four ships were not always operating together as a...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Arleigh Burke class warship is like a moving fortress in the seas. But very expensive as well.
> 
> - - -
> 
> Pakistani air defenses are good enough for stopping Indian aircraft but US is another ballgame in comparison. I will not fault Pakistan in this matter. Mine is a country of limited resources and I have realistic expectations from it.
> 
> - - -
> 
> Even if Iraq had some big ticket items such as S-300 systems and a functioning Air Force, these would have made no difference whatsoever when up against a war-machine like NATO. The REAL FIGHT was on the ground and mostly around (and inside) Iraqi cities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> In my view the objective of this conflict is to overthrow Putin and install a puppet government in Russia. Someone like Yeltzin. A side benefit is that Germany and Europe come under Anglo-Zionist control, which has already happened. If Putin is overthrown I will accept that Russia lost. If he...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US-led forces suffered significant set backs in the *Battle of Nasiriyah* in fact - the FIRST MAJOR BATTLE of war in Iraq on the ground. Even though thousands of Iraqi combatants lost their lives in this battle and US-led forces were able to secure Nasiriyah, Iraqi General Raad Hamdani credited battle in this city for motivating Iraqi forces to FIGHT in other locations by and large, in a series of his interviews.
> 
> YOU cannot take over a country by force and execute REGIME CHANGE in it until or unless YOU can secure its cities. Your forces must be well-equipped for URBAN WARFARE therefore.
> 
> It is the main battle tank (MBT) that provides the required level of MOBILITY and PUNCH to move forward and secure "areas of interest." American and British MBTs are not only mobile but pack a significant PUNCH and are SURVIVABLE. American and British MBTs could take multiple hits and survive in Iraqi urban spaces.
> 
> The problem of Russian MBTs is that they are NOT survivable. Similarly, Ukrainian MBTs are NOT survivable. This shortcoming has FORCED both camps to OVER RELY upon artillery pieces to secure "areas of interest." This is why either camp is SLOW to make advances.
> 
> Russian forces have FAILED to take over much of Ukraine and execute REGIME CHANGE there because its MBTs are NOT survivable. Rest of the criticism is subjective or overblown.


I laugh everytime people tell me "Iraq is easy" or "Taliban is just some sandal wearing farmer"

Because I was in Iraq and Afghanistan, and I specifically remember that is not the case.

Iraqi like most army in the world, some of them are not very well trained, and some of them are, the well-trained bunch (Like the Republican Guard, or Saddam Division) have training and experience near our level. Just that they were couple with no-training conscript and that is what their mistake, but when they put up a fight, with the knowledge on their own backyard, that is nothing to laugh at.

I remember jumping off from Kuwait with the 3rd, thinking we are going to ride to Baghdad pretty much like Putin think the Russian are going to ride into Kyiv, and we are going to win the race with the Marine, boy were we wrong. Yes, some stage are push over, but when you hit closer to their capital, you started to encounter more and more well trained and well placed troop, and that's the problem, we were stopped at Karbala and have to divert and have to rely on the 101 to continue the fight, they lost a jet, an apache, a tank, a blackhawk and 2 Bradley just to fight thru Karbala gab, and we lost around 14 troop. The Iraqi know how to fight a ground war, and the thing about ground war is, no matter how advance you are in the air or sea, it won't help you because you would still have to take those position and you can't have aircraft circling above you 24/7 which mean at some time you are going to be on your own, it make no different if you have thousand of strike eagle, if they aren't above you, even if they are 5 minutes from you, that wouldn't work because you will be dead in 2 and a half. That is how intense fighting was.

People who laugh at Iraqi or Taliban have no idea how good they were in Battle of Karbala Gap, or Battle of Al Najaf, or Battle of Nasiriyah, we lost a whole god damn supply column in Nasiriyah, that's not because we are stupid, but because they are that good. And if you ask he Brits about Al Barsa, they would probably say the same thing.

Whenever I hear people, be it American back home or Chinese or Indian or Pakistani member here or what have you talk about how shit Iraqi was or Taliban was, and we are that shit to be defeated by them. This video comes to mind.

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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> Have You been honest you will be able to say what you want in one line.
> 
> You use long sentences and fancy words , only to hide the fact you are not telling to truth and have very little to say .



Your irritation at my ability to formulate complex and comprehensive thoughts is your problem. I'd suggest fixing it.

In those two lines, you contributed nothing at all. Other than issuing a baseless accusation and failing to address the multiple points contained in my comment.



sammuel said:


> The truth is , Zelenskyy was democratically elected as precedent by a vast majority of Ukrainians , while his country was invaded by a dictator.



As "precedent"? You mean to say before him, no other Ukrainian presidents were democratically elected? I'm not sure to follow.

Now, what I pointed to is that the current Ukrainian regime as a whole was installed through a textbook CIA-orchestrated "color revolution". This includes Zelenski's predecessor Poroshenko. It's a foreign-imposed regime at the service of imperial powers, one which furthermore has been oppressing part of its population on "ethno"-linguistic grounds.



sammuel said:


> The fact that he happens to be Jewish is irrelevant here , except to you , who try to peddle silly conspiracy theories that suits your hateful agenda,



The fact that Ukrainian neo-Nazi formations, which have historically been highly Judeophobic will now agree to endorse a Jewish individual as their president, will be intriguing to any interested observer. It's also telling of a political reality I explained in the previous post. Which you missed out on, and which does not feature conspiracy theories.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

SalarHaqq said:


> Imagine the exact same text had formed the object of a proposed resolution by some other party than Russia, particularly a NATO regime or the zionist entity occupying Palestine. And that it was unrelated to the Ukrainian context.
> 
> Not only would western regimes have voted in favor, their streamlined media apparatus wouldn't have ceased glorifying the resolution's virtues. Dissident voices would've been railed as Nazi sympathizers, monsters, demons. NATO regime supporters, trolls and bot accounts alike would have cheered on.
> 
> With the behavior they exhibited at this recent UNGA vote, NATO regimes once again proved several points.
> 
> Starting with the fact that the Ukrainian comprador clique they illegally brought to power through a "color revolution", propping them up ever since, is indeed inextricably interconnected with local neo-Nazi elements. Elements ordered by NATO to implement a moratorium on traditional Judeophobia (hence their tolerance for a zionist Jew as Ukraine's president) and to focus their hatred on Russians and on Russians alone (though Roma have de facto been considered fair game as well, after scenes emerged of their abuse at the hands of regime-approved Ukrainian extremists).
> 
> Hence why NATO member states needed to vote against this sort of a resolution in order to lend political cover to their protégés in Kiov. A most blatant act of self-contradiction we should add, since normally anything that evokes Nazism in the slightest manner is automatically considered anathema if not downright criminalized by those same western victors of WW2. In various countries of the west, citizens happen to be imprisoned as we speak, some of whom happen to be over eighty years of age, for expressing contrary opinions about the persecution of Jewish people by the National-Socialists.
> 
> Political schizophrenia and structural decay rarely gets more salient than this. We're dealing with regimes which no longer bother to come across as credible. Revolting is the hypocrisy, and so is the attitude of those who'd feign not to perceive it.
> 
> On a sidenote I believe some pages back, someone tried to suggest that the Russophobic neo-Nazi phenomenon in Ukraine is confined to the largely obliterated Azov regiment. This is not only false in the general sense, given the documented sympathies for Stepan Bandera expressed by numerous Kiovan officials who are not classified on the far right (so much so that a major shopping artery in the center of Kiov was renamed after Bandera - I wonder which 1% party can prompt such a move); but the contention is baseless when it comes to the Ukrainian armed forces as well: Azov were not the only such group, and by far. Truth is that multiple other ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi organizations continue to operate distinct units within the Kiovan military. They include the likes of Kraken, Sloboda's own militiamen and so on and so forth.
> 
> Let's not get into how the totally disproportionate political leverage of these entities exceeds their electoral relevance by magnitudes, which is why they were able to threaten former president Poroshenko so that he would allow them to keep violating the Minsk ceasefire agreements and shell Russian-speaking areas in the Donbas. That's also why in this regard, it's not relevant how many votes they received at elections.
> 
> In conclusion, allow me to express my gratitude for your steady engagement in favor of truth and justice on this thread. Do not pay attention to attempts at stifling your freedom of speech or denting your motivation through personal attacks. If a user resorts to such means, it's that they're acting out of desperation. Again, hats off to you brother and thanks for keeping us informed through the suffocating fog of manipulative NATO propaganda and lies.



You welcome brother. 👍

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## Broccoli

BHAN85 said:


> And why they target airbases instead other nearer more valious targets?
> 
> I thing the reason is Ukrainian drones use Russian airplanes coming back home as umbrella for Russian ground radars, so they only can attack targets in that path.
> 
> But I think, Russian airplanes dont have any kind of radar to detect drones? maybe Russian airplanes radars are very simple and it can't detect drones flying low near to them.
> 
> 
> They can't sell to the West, but China will buy all the energy they can buy and even more.



China pays less and delivering gas & oil to China via ships makes it even less economical as they current pipelines are far more limited than the pipes going into Europe.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600436053407666176

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## Broccoli

It's funny how pro-Russians are still claiming that Russia coul conquer Europe when in reality they've been attacking one city like bakhmut four months and still haven't taken it and Bakhmut isn't far from the frontline where Russian begun the invasion.

Russians also cannot defend their strategic airbase from 1970s drones and they claim their tech could shoot down easily American stealth bombers & fighters.... right.

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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The real question is how the heck the Russians doesn't AAD their base against the country they are at war.
> 
> Either Russian incompetence or that Russian AD just suck.


you still doubt incompetence in Russians military in all levels ? 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The second best armed forces in the world everybody.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599854402025627648


indeed minor damage , only need some part of the wing changed (incidentally they must separate all the wing for that , then remove the engine , fix its mount and then send the engine for a total overhaul and install two new engine ,
probably only take 1-2 month 
but is that really a strategic bomber ? look more like something from flanker family .

p.s. don't bother found it it seems its a tu-22m than the tu-95 that at first in older news implied, and honestly I wonder if its still in better condition than the average of Russian fleet ?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600475132912291846

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600465604380614656

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600473574245945344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600473575617486848

US not playing around

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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600128004113342464


that is indeed foam on the ground , but the aircraft seems fairly intact and not much of visible burn mark on it .by looking at scorch mark on the ground to me it seems they hit a fuel tanker and Russians in all their wisdom didn't completely flatten the airbase first so the leaking burning fuel moved toward the aircraft and the firefighters used an old but effective technic . while one group tried to extinguish the fire another group covered that airplane and the ground around it with foam to cool it and prevent the burning fuel damage the airplane . now to see if they were successful or not we need ground photo m its a little hard with commercial satellite imagery . but that firefighter tricks is effective and completely legit and used all over the world.


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## Reashot Xigwin

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600473574245945344
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600473575617486848
> 
> US not playing around



Putin is making America Great Again. 

Any American here better say thank you to uncle Putin.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600470652363866113
Zelensky named TIMEs Person of the Year

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## Hack-Hook

LeGenD said:


> INS Hanit does not have AEGIS and it is much less of a warship in comparison to sophisticated destroyers out there.


if we gave the missile to Hezbollah we better knew what we gave them and all Iranian sources claim it was kowsar .Israel only claim it was Noor because they want blame Hezbollah for attacking the merchant ship because they taught it attacked them 
if it was noor the upper part of the ship went away no matter it hit the crane or the ship , the damage also is clearly consistent with the damage of 25kg warhead of a kowsar missile than 150+kg warhead of a noor


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600200419975757840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600197651659902976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600197654419763200

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600473574245945344
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600473575617486848
> 
> US not playing around



And some Russians and their bots believe they can stand next to the US.

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## Reashot Xigwin

A rusky coup. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600434403661926402


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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> And some Russians and their bots believe they can stand next to the US.



Precisely - Russians cannot handle 16 HIMARS - and here the USA is going to buy 700 more of them in addition to what they already have.

(all this is for china anyway - not russia - the russians are a beaten and spent force - and it only cost the americans 20billion usd to take of the russians )

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## Reashot Xigwin

😁😁😁

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600487963783270400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600464867781058560

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600208730695426048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600208744180510720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600461215934730241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600467446602690560

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## 925boy

Broccoli said:


> It's funny how pro-Russians are still claiming that Russia coul conquer Europe when in reality they've been attacking one city like bakhmut four months and still haven't taken it


they havent taken it yet because its more useful to kill Ukranians there as many of them keep going there to die- efficient manpower denazification - if it works, why change it? Ukraine will lose it regardless, because they dont have enough to keep it - any lie there?


Broccoli said:


> and Bakhmut isn't far from the frontline where Russian begun the invasion.


but Russians are poised to take it b4 Ukrainians so whats your point?


Broccoli said:


> Russians also cannot defend their strategic airbase from 1970s drones and they claim their tech could shoot down easily American stealth bombers & fighters.... right.


after 1 or 2 bases get attached by a country that's a NATO front? grow up pls.

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## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600473574245945344
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600473575617486848
> 
> US not playing around


I feel like some of these weapons would be given to Ukraine after a peace treaty, or in case the war escalates for the worse for Ukraine.


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## jhungary

Chervonopopivka is apparently taken by the Ukrainian. They started attack chervonopopivka on the 3rd and news in Russian Telegram channel suggesting Russia COUNTERATTACK Chervonopopivka (North West of Kreminna) suggested that Russia lost Chervonopopivka

If this is the case then we will probably see Kreminna being surrounded soon. 









Another 'Mousetrap' For Russian Troops: Ukrainian Army Goes On Offensive Near Kreminna


The Armed Forces of Ukraine have achieved success in the Chervonopopivka area.




charter97.org

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## kingQamaR

Hack-Hook said:


> that is indeed foam on the ground , but the aircraft seems fairly intact and not much of visible burn mark on it .by looking at scorch mark on the ground to me it seems they hit a fuel tanker and Russians in all their wisdom didn't completely flatten the airbase first so the leaking burning fuel moved toward the aircraft and the firefighters used an old but effective technic . while one group tried to extinguish the fire another group covered that airplane and the ground around it with foam to cool it and prevent the burning fuel damage the airplane . now to see if they were successful or not we need ground photo m its a little hard with commercial satellite imagery . but that firefighter tricks is effective and completely legit and used all over the world.



This is good news .... it proves to Russia that they can take the fight to Russia and that Ukraine is not going to roll over ....... again It comes as no surprise that Russian air defence is found wanting


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## That Guy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> 😁😁😁
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600487963783270400
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600464867781058560


The boys will stay alive, the men will defecate themselves a second before or after they get yeeted due to Ukrainian artillery.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Beny Karachun said:


> I feel like some of these weapons would be given to Ukraine after a peace treaty, or in case the war escalates for the worse for Ukraine.




Or in case settler and apartheid Israel is overran by the rightful owners of the Holy Land.

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## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Or in case settler and apartheid Israel is overran by the rightful owners of the Holy Land.


Sorry dude Jews already overran Israel


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600186864572325888


Beny Karachun said:


> Sorry dude Jews already overran Israel




It is temporary. You need proof? Just look at why your illegal settlers are planting the Al-Gharghad tree (Box-thorns tree). That is how we (Muslims) know the divine promise will be fulfilled. Your return was foretold. Your efforts to plant the Al-Gharghad trees were foretold as it is the only one that will hide your illegal settlers when the promised day arrives. So to sum it up, your stay is temporary.

Your illegal and unjust conquest will never go beyond the West side of Jordan river, and there will never be Zion between Euphrates and the Nile. You'll be confined to the West side of Jordan river until the Freemasonry empire is destroyed through the will of Allah (subhaana wata'Allah).

Freemasonry empire = Gog and Magog empire

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600493170617458695

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600493169866678275
Oops, the EU sanctions against Russian are having negative effects on Europeans themselves. Sweet.

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## zartosht

Broccoli said:


> It's funny how pro-Russians are still claiming that Russia coul conquer Europe when in reality they've been attacking one city like bakhmut four months and still haven't taken it and Bakhmut isn't far from the frontline where Russian begun the invasion.
> 
> Russians also cannot defend their strategic airbase from 1970s drones and they claim their tech could shoot down easily American stealth bombers & fighters.... right.



Finnish pm sais europe “not strong enough” to take on russia

These schizophrenic euro clowns could really debate themselves on this war

On the one hand europe cant handle russia and needs to bend *** the US when the propaganda narrative suits them

On the other hand Russia weakk. Ukie farmers take out their fighter jets etc etc


This is why nobody who does research believes in the holohoax anymore. Western propaganda is in its own universe. 

Imagine if today with all this technology they gaslight you. How easy it would be to make up millions of supposed jew deaths to impose an abortion neo crusader zionist state in the heart of islam

Ps. Hassan dont mind these confused tranny worshipping western idiots. They have a sense of entitlement that they should own the narrative like how it happens i. Their own countries. And get frustrated when opposing views arent censored

Thats why im enjoying europes/wests destruction. These “ right side of histroy” lgbtqs / feminists and woke trash will be biting the cold bitter freeZe of winter/reality very soon

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600470356271120384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600470363913474048
The art of Western elites' double-speak!!

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## Viet

Congratulations




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600470652363866113

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600431345376776193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600431860210728960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600385957546582016

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600529350562304000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600484629370347523

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600473260986011648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600474366034071552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600445591296745472

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600186864572325888
> 
> 
> 
> It is temporary. You need proof? Just look at why your illegal settlers are planting the Al-Gharghad tree (Box-thorns tree). That is how we (Muslims) know the divine promise will be fulfilled. Your return was foretold. Your efforts to plant the Al-Gharghad trees were foretold as it is the only one that will hide your illegal settlers when the promised day arrives. So to sum it up, your stay is temporary.
> 
> Your illegal and unjust conquest will never go beyond the West side of Jordan river, and there will never be Zion between Euphrates and the Nile. You'll be confined to the West side of Jordan river until the Freemasonry empire is destroyed through the will of Allah (subhaana wata'Allah).
> 
> Freemasonry empire = Gog and Magog empire


ehhhh again ....  and your evidence of it is trust me bro again with pictures from 2013 ...

https://www.olsztyn.com.pl/artykul,...formacyjna-akcja-rosyjskich-trolli,36363.html

from that site

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## Viet

The EU ninth’s sanctions package coming.

Interesting approach, one package per month.







https://www.ft.com/content/09424014-da48-44fb-b602-10a55f001fc6

EU to propose sanctions on Russia’s mining industry Bloc aims for ban on investments in one of country’s biggest industries in effort to further cripple economy Russia’s vast mining sector, a global producer of gold, iron ore, uranium and phosphates, accounted for a quarter of foreign investments into the country before the Ukraine war © Bloomberg





__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600444241259290624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600435293026394112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600415262896898048


bobo6661 said:


> ehhhh again ....  and your evidence of it is trust me bro again with pictures from 2013 ...
> 
> https://www.olsztyn.com.pl/artykul,...formacyjna-akcja-rosyjskich-trolli,36363.html
> 
> from that site
> View attachment 903796



The article that you quoted has December 1, 2022 date. I don't speak Polish, so I don't know what the article is stating. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600433767029489664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600431345376776193

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The article that you quoted has December 1, 2022 date. I don't speak Polish, so I don't know what the article is stating.


if you had some brains you would use translate option






and im talking about your previous post about polish soldiers that died in ukraine that had pictures from 2013 claiming its from this year


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Oops, it looks like Polish mercenaries are putting the Ukrainian troops at risk while shooting the Russian soldiers and then running. The Poles need to stay put in the front if they want to engage the Russians. But just throwing potshots and then running? That is the cowards' way. At least the Ukrainians are in their trenches, but the poles? It is all about running. Embarrassing. ROFL


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600179828572889090

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## Ali_Baba

Russia builds defences amid false fears of revenge invasion by Ukraine


In a sign of how badly its own brutal invasion is going, Vladimir Putin's forces are 'extending defensive positions' along the border with north eastern Ukraine and 'deep inside' Belgorod region.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Now the russians are afraid they will be invaded by ukraine - ... lol !!

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## Vergennes

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia builds defences amid false fears of revenge invasion by Ukraine
> 
> 
> In a sign of how badly its own brutal invasion is going, Vladimir Putin's forces are 'extending defensive positions' along the border with north eastern Ukraine and 'deep inside' Belgorod region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Now the russians are afraid they will be invaded by ukraine - ... lol !!



It went from "We'll take Kyiv in 3 days" to "We have to defend Belgorod,Kursk and Crimea".

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## kingQamaR

Beny Karachun said:


> Sorry dude Jews already overran Israel



Yawn…..


----------



## 925boy

Viet said:


> The EU ninth’s sanctions package coming.
> 
> Interesting approach, one package per month.
> 
> 
> View attachment 903797
> 
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/09424014-da48-44fb-b602-10a55f001fc6
> 
> EU to propose sanctions on Russia’s mining industry Bloc aims for ban on investments in one of country’s biggest industries in effort to further cripple economy Russia’s vast mining sector, a global producer of gold, iron ore, uranium and phosphates, accounted for a quarter of foreign investments into the country before the Ukraine war © Bloomberg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com


if EU and US ARE NOT ACTUALLY BROKE, let them execute this plan! lmao.

they complain about Russian commodities..then buy it via Switzerland (gold) - technology exposes their lies to us.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> if you had some brains you would use translate option
> 
> View attachment 903799
> 
> 
> and im talking about your previous post about polish soldiers that died in ukraine that had pictures from 2013 claiming its from this year




Once again, I don't see any timestamp that shows 2013 and you haven't produced an irrefutable evidence that shows that photo was taken in 2013. Fyi, I shared a tweet, remember.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600567469491503116

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## jhungary

Preliminary Lessons in Conventional Warfighting from Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine: February–July 2022


This study of the early phases of the 2022 war sheds light on Ukraine's strengths and vulnerabilities, and the need for further Western support.




rusi.org





This study of the early phases of the 2022 war sheds light on Ukraine's strengths and vulnerabilities, and the need for further Western support.

Executive Summary​The full-scale invasion of Ukraine on 24 February 2022 has provided an invaluable opportunity to assess the capabilities of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (AFRF) and the implications of a range of capabilities for modern warfare. Many publicly made judgements on these issues have lacked supporting data or insight into Ukrainian operational planning and decision-making. To ensure that those drawing lessons from the conflict do so from a solid foundation, this report seeks to outline key lessons, based on the operational data accumulated by the Ukrainian General Staff, from the fighting between February and July 2022. As the underlying source material for much of this report cannot yet be made public, this should be understood as testimony rather than as an academic study. Given the requirements for operational security, it is necessarily incomplete.
Russia planned to invade Ukraine over a 10-day period and thereafter occupy the country to enable annexation by August 2022. The Russian plan presupposed that speed, and the use of deception to keep Ukrainian forces away from Kyiv, could enable the rapid seizure of the capital. The Russian deception plan largely succeeded, and the Russians achieved a 12:1 force ratio advantage north of Kyiv. The very operational security that enabled the successful deception, however, also led Russian forces to be unprepared at the tactical level to execute the plan effectively. The Russian plan’s greatest deficiency was the lack of reversionary courses of action. As a result, when speed failed to produce the desired results, Russian forces found their positions steadily degraded as Ukraine mobilised. Despite these setbacks, Russia refocused on Donbas and, since Ukraine had largely expended its ammunition supply, proved successful in subsequent operations, slowed by the determination – rather than the capabilities – of Ukrainian troops. From April, the West became Ukraine’s strategic depth, and the Ukrainian Armed Forces (UAF) only robbed Russia of the initiative once long-range fires brought Russian logistics under threat.
The tactical competence of the Russian military proved significantly inferior compared with the expectations of many observers based within and outside Ukraine and Russia. Nevertheless, Russian weapons systems proved largely effective, and those units with a higher level of experience demonstrated that the AFRF have considerable military potential, even if deficiencies in training and the context of how they were employed meant that the Russian military failed to meet that potential. Factoring in the idiosyncrasies of the Russian campaign, there are five key areas that should be monitored to judge whether the Russian military is making progress in resolving its structural and cultural deficiencies. These areas should be used to inform assessments of Russian combat power in the future.

The AFRF currently operate with a hierarchy of jointery in which the priorities of the land component are paramount, and the military as a whole is subordinate to the special services. This creates sub-optimal employment of other branches.

The AFRF force-generation model is flawed. It proposes the creation of amalgamated combined arms formations in wartime but lacks the strength of junior leadership to knit these units together.

There is a culture of reinforcing failure unless orders are changed at higher levels. This appears less evident in the Russian Aerospace Forces than in the Ground Forces and Navy.

The AFRF are culturally vulnerable to deception because they lack the ability to rapidly fuse information, are culturally averse to providing those who are executing orders with the context to exercise judgement, and incentivise a dishonest reporting culture.

The AFRF’s capabilities and formations are prone to fratricide. Electronic warfare (EW) systems and other capabilities rarely deconflict, while processes for identifying friend from foe and establishing control measures are inadequate. The result is that capabilities that should magnify one another’s effects must be employed sequentially.

Beyond assessments of the Russian armed forces, there are significant lessons to be drawn from the conflict for the British and other NATO militaries. The foremost of these are:
In due course, it will be possible to extend this study to cover the later phase of the war when Ukraine moved on to offensive operations. As the UAF expend significant ammunition, however, and now depend on their international partners for equipment, it is important that those partners draw the appropriate lessons from the war so far, not least so that they can prepare themselves to deter future threats and to best support Ukraine. Ukraine’s victory is possible, but it requires significant heavy fighting. With appropriate support, Ukraine can prevail.

There is no sanctuary in modern warfare. The enemy can strike throughout operational depth. Survivability depends on dispersing ammunitions stocks, command and control, maintenance areas and aircraft. Ukraine successfully evaded Russia’s initial wave of strikes by dispersing its arsenals, aircraft and air defences. Conversely, the Russians succeeded in engaging 75% of static defence sites in the first 48 hours of the war. Nor is setting up a headquarters in a civilian building sufficient to make it survivable. The British Army must consider the vulnerability of higher-echelon enablement. The RAF must consider how many deployable spares kits it has to enable dispersion of its fleets.

Warfighting demands large initial stockpiles and significant slack capacity. Despite the prominence of anti-tank guided weapons in the public narrative, Ukraine blunted Russia’s attempt to seize Kyiv using massed fires from two artillery brigades. The difference in numbers between Russian and Ukrainian artillery was not as significant at the beginning of the conflict, with just over a 2:1 advantage: 2,433 barrel artillery systems against 1,176; and 3,547 multiple-launch rocket systems against 1,680. Ukraine maintained artillery parity for the first month and a half and then began to run low on munitions so that, by June, the AFRF had a 10:1 advantage in volume of fire. Evidently, no country in NATO, other than the US, has sufficient initial weapons stocks for warfighting or the industrial capacity to sustain largescale operations. This must be rectified if deterrence is to be credible and is equally a problem for the RAF and Royal Navy.

Uncrewed aerial systems (UAS) and counter-UAS (CUAS) are essential across all branches and at all echelons. Although critical to competitiveness by providing situational awareness, 90% of UAS employed are lost. For the most part, UAS must be cheap and attritable. For land forces, they must be organic to units for the purposes of both situational awareness and target acquisition. The primary means of CUAS is EW. Another critical tactical requirement is to be alerted to the presence of UAS. For the Royal Navy, CUAS is critical for protecting vessels operating beyond the protection of a task force. For the RAF, the provision of look-down sensing to locate UAS to contribute to air defence is critical. This allows defensive resources to be prioritised on the right axes.

The force must fight for the right to precision. Precision is not only vastly more efficient in the effects it delivers but also allows the force to reduce its logistics tail and thereby makes it more survivable. Precision weapons, however, are scarce and can be defeated by EW. To enable kill chains to function at the speed of relevance, EW for attack, protection and direction finding is a critical element of modern combined arms operations. Sequencing fires to disrupt EW and create windows of opportunity for precision effects is critical and creates training requirements. In modern warfare, the electromagnetic spectrum is unlikely to be denied, but it is continually disrupted, and forces must endeavour to gain advantage within it.

For land forces, the pervasive ISTAR on the modern battlefield and the layering of multiple sensors at the tactical level make concealment exceedingly difficult to sustain. Survivability is often afforded by being sufficiently dispersed to become an uneconomical target, by moving quickly enough to disrupt the enemy’s kill chain and thereby evade engagement, or by entering hardened structures. Shell scrapes and hasty defences can increase immediate survivability but also risk the force becoming fixed by fire while precision fires and specialist munitions do not leave these positions survivable. Forces instead should prioritise concentrating effects while only concentrating mass under favourable conditions – with an ability to offer mutual support beyond line of sight – and should give precedence to mobility as a critical component of their survivability.

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## The SC

Fall Yakovlevka in the Russian hands..it is located on a height that gives the Russians a major advantage..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600609338707550249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600591435866247173

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600569799813251072

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## Hamartia Antidote

yay he has finally settled it....no more morons here start talking sillyness about Russia using nuclear weapons.









Putin dismisses nuclear weapons concerns, says 'we haven't gone mad,' denies another draft is coming: Live Ukraine updates


Russian President Vladimir Putin hailed the disputed annexation of Ukrainian territories but rejected concerns over nuclear weapons. Updates.



www.usatoday.com




Putin dismisses nuclear weapons concerns, says 'we haven't gone mad,' denies another draft is coming: Live Ukraine updates​
Putin dismissed concerns that he would use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, calling them a deterrent. He has said Russia will use “all available means” to protect its territory, including the annexed areas of Ukraine.

“We haven’t gone mad," he said Wednesday. "We are fully aware of what nuclear weapons are."


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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> You believe Chinese are dumb? No, they will not buy everything from Putin they will not fall into the same trap like the Europeans did. Even they want to buy there are lacks of infra, demands.


they prefer to burn coal sovereingly, than depend from Russia.

And for the people who think Russia and China are best friends, I want to remind: Telegram IM app is banned in China 

Anyway future is so long, and all countries will need more energy resources as it decrease world availability.


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## -=virus=-




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## SIPRA

-=virus=- said:


>



Yeh waala Baaba bhi Ukraine ki khoob bajaata hae.

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## khansaheeb

We haven’t gone mad. fully aware of nuclear risks: Putin


All the updates from December 7, as they happened.




www.aljazeera.com





Russia-Ukraine updates: Putin says threat of nuclear war rising​





Russian President Vladimir Putin [Sputnik/Sergei Savostyanov/Pool via Reuters]
By Edna Mohamed and Shyema Sajjad
Published On 7 Dec 20227 Dec 2022
Click here to share on social media
This blog is now closed, thanks for joining us. These were the updates on the Russia-Ukraine war for Wednesday, December 7.
Read more



8h ago
(21:36 GMT)
US slams ‘loose talk’ on nuclear weapons after Putin comments​The US has denounced “loose talk” on nuclear weapons after Putin mused on rising risks of nuclear war but said Moscow would not strike first.
State Department Spokesman Ned Price said: “We think any loose talk of nuclear weapons is absolutely irresponsible.”
Price said nuclear powers around the world since the Cold War, including China, India, the United States and Russia itself, have been clear that “a nuclear war is something that must never be fought and can never be won”.
“We think any other rhetoric – whether it is nuclear sabre-rattling or even raising the spectre of the use of tactical nuclear weapons – is something that is irresponsible,” Price said.
“It is dangerous and it goes against the spirit of that statement that has been at the core of the nuclear non-proliferation regime since the Cold War,” he said.


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## Viet

925boy said:


> if EU and US ARE NOT ACTUALLY BROKE, let them execute this plan! lmao.
> 
> they complain about Russian commodities..then buy it via Switzerland (gold) - technology exposes their lies to us.


You don’t understand. The sanctions aim to reduce Russia gov revenues. It’s not about not buying everything from Russia. The sanctions will strangulate Russia more and more. Sure, I can go to Swiss and buy Russia gold. Or even here at German banks. Russia gold is cheaper. Putin makes most money from oil selling. That’s now the main target of the newest sanction. At the end of the day, Putin has to choose between bread and butter for his hungry population or rifle and bullets. He can’t have both.

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## khansaheeb

Russia ‘Drains Out’ NASAMS, Hawk, IRIS-T Missile Defense Systems; Ukraine Urges US For Patriot Batteries


With Russia's bombardment and war, Ukraine has made renewed calls for air defense systems to prevent the country from becoming a black hole.




eurasiantimes.com




Russia ‘Drains Out’ NASAMS, Hawk, IRIS-T Missile Defense Systems; Ukraine Urges US For Patriot Batteries​

BySakshi Tiwari

December 2, 2022

*With Russia’s bombardment continuing unabated, Ukrainian officials have made renewed calls for air defense systems to prevent the country from becoming a black hole. *
Speaking to reporters, Ukrainian foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba recently said his country needed “air defense, – IRIS, Hawks, Patriot.”
Russian missile attacks on Ukraine have predominantly targeted its energy infrastructure to curtail its war-fighting capabilities. Even though the West has supplied some advanced air defense systems like the NASAMS, Hawk, and the IRIS-T, Ukraine has maintained that it needs more to fight the Russian barrage of missiles raining down on its cities.
While Ukraine is pleading for more advanced air defense, a US official has said that Russia has resorted to a new ploy to exhaust the air defenses of Ukraine.
A senior US military official said on November 29 that Russia is firing unarmed cruise missiles designed to carry nuclear warheads at Ukraine to deplete Kyiv’s stocks of air defenses, Reuters reported.
The unnamed official was responding to questions regarding a previous British intelligence claim that Russia was likely firing nuclear-capable cruise missiles after removing nuclear warheads.
Ukrainian media reports have also suggested that Russia had fired the Kh-55 cruise missile after unscrewing its nuclear warhead and replacing it with a dummy. Going by these reports, a Kh-55 missile shot down over Kyiv on November 17 contained a “screwed-on” block that acted as a dummy imitator of a nuclear warhead.



Kh-55 Russian Missile
The British defense ministry had assessed that ballast was most likely being used in place of the warheads, a mechanism that would still cause damage due to the missile’s kinetic energy and unspent fuel. This is the first time a US official has commented on the evaluation.
The Pentagon has emphasized that Russia’s escalation in missile strikes in Ukraine partially aims to deplete Kyiv’s air defense supplies and eventually acquire dominance over the country’s skies.

As a result, the United States and its allies have prioritized providing Ukraine with air defense systems. This includes anything from residual Soviet-era systems to more recent Western technologies.
The US is believed to be considering arming Ukraine with its Patriot air defense systems, a Ukrainian request that it has been dithering on.
However, it could be worth considering whether the US and its NATO allies would transfer missile defense systems to Ukraine if Russia used unarmed missiles.
The advanced air defense systems transferred to Ukraine, and those under consideration fire costly missiles. Russia’s use of kamikaze drones has already led experts to believe that the odds were skewed in its favor due to the cost difference.
Some military experts believe that while the British intelligence is not incorrect, it could be a little misplaced and out of context.



A HAWK missile leaving its launcher
*Russia’s Unarmed Missiles Not A New Phenomenon*​In a Twitter thread, the UK MoD stated on November 26, 2022, “Russia is likely removing the nuclear warheads from aging nuclear cruise missiles and firing the unarmed munitions at Ukraine.”
After giving some plausible arguments, the thread concluded that “Russia almost certainly hopes such missiles will function as decoys and divert Ukrainian air defenses. Whatever Russia’s intent, this improvisation highlights the depletion in Russia’s stock of long-range missiles.”


The conclusion was also echoed by the Institute for the Study of War, which further stated: “Russian military’s likely use of a more strategic weapon system in the role of a decoy for Ukrainian air defenses corroborates ISW’s previous reporting that the Russian military has significantly depleted its arsenal of high-precision missiles.”
However, military expert and Indian Air Force veteran Squadron Leader Vijainder K Thakur explained that many Kh-55 SM missiles had been withdrawn from their strategic role with the induction of advanced induction of Kh-102 missiles into service.
According to data, Russia began equipping its Kh-55 SM missiles with inert warheads as early as 2015, following the introduction of the Kh-102 long-range, low-observable strategic cruise missile.



Kh-55 in the Ukrainian Air Force Museum (Wikipedia)
The Russian Air Force, for example, stated in 2015 that four MiG-31 Foxhound interceptors had successfully brought down a Kh-55 cruise missile during a test with the assistance of an A-50. Thakur further said that militaries worldwide are attempting to repurpose retired military systems.
Russia is likely using decoy Kh-55 SM missiles with inert warheads to lure Ukrainian air defense systems into lighting up to engage the missile, revealing their positions and exposing them to attack by Su-35S fighters armed with Kh-31 missiles, which, according to the RuMoD, are on patrol 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
That said, Russia continues to rain missiles on Ukrainian cities as the battle enters a very harsh winter. Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Russian forces were “planning something” in the country’s south and described the situation at the front as complex, with intense fighting in the east, northeast, and south of Ukraine.
The Russian troops caught on a back foot have visibly upped the ante.

*Contact the author at sakshi.tiwari9555 (at) gmail.com*
*Follow EurAsian Times on Google News*

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## jhungary

-=virus=- said:


>


Douglas MacGregor once said 

"It takes 6 months to train a crew to operate HIMARS" 

Fort Silk (Artillery School) said it take 5 weeks. And he is supposed to be a Colonel in the Army...

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It looks like even in Poland, the casualties of the war in Ukraine is piling up. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597263273568542722
> "The number of wounded is probably three times the number of dead, though that can vary depending on the war's circumstance. It means that in total some 4800 men of the Polish contingent in Ukraine were wounded or killed. Is that one third of the Polish 'mercenary' forces in Ukraine? Is it more? Or less?
> 
> We don't know but I expect that quite a lot of regular soldiers of the 16th Pomeranian Mechanised Division in Olsztyn have been 'asked' to take part in the war. The division consists of one armored and two mechanized brigades plus the usual auxiliaries which makes it a 15,000 men strong unit.
> 
> The style of Polish graveyards is typical for a Catholic European country. Trees, individual graves, elaborate tombstones, candles and flowers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source - bigger
> It is understandable that people in Poland do not like the plans for an 'American' style military graveyard:
> 
> 
> With plans for 1,700 dead Polish soldiers, beyond those 1,200 already buried, the Polish government seems to expect its soldiers to take part in an even more intensified and longer war."





bobo6661 said:


> in milions
> 
> no idea what is Moon of Alabama but for me sounds like a sect, they don't show any evidence in that anyway ...
> 
> i live in poland and im telling you that's how a normal graveyard lookes like in this season ... new tombstones mix with old are a normal thing in poland
> 
> and this is how a new grave would look like :
> View attachment 901506
> 
> 
> "he authorities prepared "special honors" for them. Uniform quarters are being built in Olsztyn: There are to be two slab sizes. Larger (meter by meter) are graves for officers, smaller ones (60 cm by 60 cm) are quarters for soldiers. It will not be possible to cover the tombstone with cubes, or to sprinkle pebbles and plant flowers. Only grass is to be spread around the graves. Such an inglorious end awaits the mercenaries who died in Ukraine."
> 
> and this is a total bullshit the double size means its for a husband and wife  i live near olsztyn man i fk know what im saying.
> 
> best part of that article is source of picture :
> 
> View attachment 901514
> 
> 2013...





Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Once again, I don't see any timestamp that shows 2013 and you haven't produced an irrefutable evidence that shows that photo was taken in 2013. Fyi, I shared a tweet, remember.




Here you do mister dum dum sadly for you its to easy

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600569799813251072
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600569799813251072



Why are you posting 45x times the same tweet ? 



bobo6661 said:


> Here you do mister dum dum sadly for you its to easy



Of course a somali dude living in the US knows better than a Polish guy living in Poland LMAO.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Of course a somali dude living in the US knows better than a Polish guy living in Poland LMAO.



Your friend wants to hide the Polish casualties, which is really staggering. I share the tweets of people who know more about the war than you and him. There are differences between experts in the current war and just fanboys like you and him who all they share is their hared of Russians and propaganda.

Btw, I live in my country and frankly where I live is irrelevant. I'll stay the course to share with whatever I think suits this topic.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600569799813251072
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600569799813251072
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600569799813251072



Mods could you look at it,this dude's spamming the same tweet over and over in this page like the previous one ?

@LeGenD @waz

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## Hassan Al-Somal

=

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600788677378334720

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Mods could you look at it,this dude's spamming the same tweet over and over in this page like the previous one ?
> 
> @LeGenD @waz




He is complaining to the mods for an issue that he's manufactured. What? I only have 1 comment of that topic. It looks like that attack on Avdiika is giving western fanboys a nightmare. 

First, he was complaining about my location. Now, he is complaining about the clips of the war that shows Russians destroying Ukrainian arms manufacturing facility. What would be his next complaint? These posts are going to be continuing as long as Russians are hitting hard on the cannon fodder aka Ukrainians.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> He is complaining to the mods for an issue that he's manufactured. What? I only have 1 comment of that topic. It looks like that attack on Avdiika is giving western fanboys a nightmare.
> 
> First, he was complaining about my location. Now, he is complaining about the clips of the war that shows Russians destroying Ukrainian arms manufacturing facility. What would be his next complaint? These posts are going to be continuing as long as Russians are hitting hard on the cannon fodder aka Ukrainians.



Just so you know mods can see the messages you deleted and edited,so don't t take me for a fool.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600812442002411520

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It looks like even in Poland, the casualties of the war in Ukraine is piling up. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597263273568542722
> "The number of wounded is probably three times the number of dead, though that can vary depending on the war's circumstance. It means that in total some 4800 men of the Polish contingent in Ukraine were wounded or killed. Is that one third of the Polish 'mercenary' forces in Ukraine? Is it more? Or less?
> 
> We don't know but I expect that quite a lot of regular soldiers of the 16th Pomeranian Mechanised Division in Olsztyn have been 'asked' to take part in the war. The division consists of one armored and two mechanized brigades plus the usual auxiliaries which makes it a 15,000 men strong unit.
> 
> The style of Polish graveyards is typical for a Catholic European country. Trees, individual graves, elaborate tombstones, candles and flowers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source - bigger
> It is understandable that people in Poland do not like the plans for an 'American' style military graveyard:
> 
> 
> With plans for 1,700 dead Polish soldiers, beyond those 1,200 already buried, the Polish government seems to expect its soldiers to take part in an even more intensified and longer war."




An Honest man would correct his post , after clearly shown that the picture he used to prove his point , was from 2013 , i guess that is too much to expect . .. .



Posted : *April 7 2013 *


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597763129319964678


sammuel said:


> An Honest man would correct his post , after clearly shown that the picture he used to prove his pointy , was from 2013 , i guess that is too much to accept . .. .
> 
> 
> 
> Posted : *April 7 2013 *




It is a photo from Moon of Alabama. However, high Polish casualties have been shared by different sources.


"An Honest man"? A Krishna-worshiping Pajeet hiding behind the Israeli flag is talking about honesty. Give me a break.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Merkel laid out everything that the West stands for.  Russians or anyone else should never trust the West.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600746619036581888

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597763129319964678
> 
> 
> 
> It is a photo from Moon of Alabama. However, high Polish casualties have been shared by different sources.



Silly excuses , you where informed that the picture is from 2013 , yet you continue to argue instead of correcting your post and removing it ,

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600816263391227904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600815304413564929

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## That Guy

-=virus=- said:


>


He's a known putin shill.

Also, the amount of copium and delusion in the youtube comments is hilarious.

It's worse than Armenian mentality during the Azerbaijan-Armenia war.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Even the Americans on the ground in Ukraine admitted the 70% casualty rate of Ukrainian forces in the Bakhmut meat grinder. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600807598017904643

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## Hassan Al-Somal

That Guy said:


> He's a known putin shill.
> 
> Also, the amount of copium and delusion in the youtube comments is hilarious.
> 
> It's worse than Armenian mentality during the Azerbaijan-Armenia war.




Online trolls calling a decorated military officer with a rank of colonel a "shill". The irony! It is one thing if you don't agree with his assessment, but calling a senior military general a "shill" when you're nobody in his mother's basement is outrageous, in my view. First do something with your life and make a name for yourself before you can say anything against people who have accomplished far more than you. He is hiding behind a pseudo name and have the audacity to call Colonel Douglas McGregor a "shill". Unbelievable. These trolls have loudmouths that they can't control. Just go back to the hole you crawl out of.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600834971849326593


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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Online trolls calling a decorated military officer with a rank of colonel a "shill". The irony! It is one thing if you don't agree with his assessment, but calling a senior military general a "shill" when you're nobody in his mother's basement is outrageous, in my view. First do something with your life and make a name for yourself before you can say anything against people who have accomplished far more than you. He is hiding behind a pseudo name and have the audacity to call Colonel Douglas McGregor a "shill". Unbelievable. These trolls have loudmouths that they can't control. Just go back to the hole you crawl out of.


Do a little bit of research on him, before opening your mouth.

Considering you think Scott Ritter is a legitimate source, when he's a literal convicted rapist, and then proceed to complain about rape, I'm not surprised you engage in such dishonest behavior.

It is no longer enough to just see an argument in today's age. It is also equally important to look at a source and see if it is a known peddler of false information, such as this moron, to quickly decide if the claims should be dismissed or not.

This isn't a college or university debate hall. You're on an internet forum.

Next time, instead of continuing to post dumbass comments like this, post a better source than mere propaganda.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597763129319964678



So is this your "credible sources" ?

Coming from a random internet guy who claimed Ukraine had 400K casualties + nearly 400K missing and ranting about polish and black mercenaries no one has ever seen just like the Russians claim. 🤷‍♂️

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600477058320109568


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## Hack-Hook

That Guy said:


> Do a little bit of research on him, before opening your mouth.
> 
> Considering you think Scott Ritter is a legitimate source, when he's a literal convicted rapist, and then proceed to complain about rape, I'm not surprised you engage in such dishonest behavior.
> 
> It is no longer enough to just see an argument in today's age. It is also equally important to look at a source and see if it is a known peddler of false information, such as this moron, to quickly decide if the claims should be dismissed or not.
> 
> This isn't a college or university debate hall. You're on an internet forum.
> 
> Next time, instead of continuing to post dumbass comments like this, post a better source than mere propaganda.


a question , if somebody have questionable sexual tendency and urges why he must be disqualified automatically from being accepted as a political think tank or pundit or writer or anything?
is that tendency addled his view on a political situation ?and why you think he publish false information , as far as i'm aware even in his court case it was police that provided false information as when they posed as a 15 year old child , they stated they are 18 years because that forum had a 18 year minimum law .


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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Online trolls calling a decorated military officer with a rank of colonel a "shill". The irony! It is one thing if you don't agree with his assessment, but calling a senior military general a "shill" when you're nobody in his mother's basement is outrageous, in my view. First do something with your life and make a name for yourself before you can say anything against people who have accomplished far more than you. He is hiding behind a pseudo name and have the audacity to call Colonel Douglas McGregor a "shill". Unbelievable. These trolls have loudmouths that they can't control. Just go back to the hole you crawl out of.


1.) He is NOT a general.
2.) A Colonel is NOT a Senior Position. There are 3 grades of Officer, Company Grade, Field Grade and General Staff Officer. Colonel is a Field Grade Officer, if he is "Senior" then my wife, who was a Major, also a Field Grade Officer, would also be considered Senior.
3.) He is a shill, most of what he said is incorrect, he claim US Military took 6 months to even train a HIMARS driver, Fort Silk Program said it's took 5 weeks. He claim US supplied more than 50% of the Artillery Shell to Ukraine, when US had around 12 million stock and only supplied 864,000 today.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> a question , if somebody have questionable sexual tendency and urges why he must be disqualified automatically from being accepted as a political think tank or pundit or writer or anything?
> is that tendency addled his view on a political situation ?and why you think he publish false information , as far as i'm aware even in his court case it was police that provided false information as when they posed as a 15 year old child , they stated they are 18 years because that forum had a 18 year minimum law .


Depends, if that think tanks require security clearance. If it does, then yes, it preclude him from doing those, because you cannot have a security clearance if you have a felony.

On the other hand, I did EXACTLY the same job and held EXACTLY the same rank as Scott Ritter. The only different being he was in the Marine and I was in the Army. And I wouldn't not be qualified for any political think tank (I did try to get those job).

While we all have our own political view, that is independent on how he performs his job as a Staff S2 when he was in the service, I am a average S2, his 201 and 214 indicated his performance is BELOW average. He is a bad intel officer because he is bad at doing his job, his 201 (Which is public, you can go look up at any National Archive office) stated he is Confrontational and extremely impatient, both are bad for business in intelligence.

On the other hand, he was convicted because he perform an sex act on himself for an undercover cop that repeatedly claim she was 15 years old, this is not about police provide false information (Ie claim to be 15 to "enact fantasy" because the chatroom have a 18+ policy.....) as long as the police did not incite the act, that is well within the law for undercover to lie about their age and for the principal to incriminate themselves.

His defence was like "I have masturbated in front of a 15 years old in a bar which I think she only claim to be 15 years old to seek thrill because the bar would not allow anyone to enter unless they are 18....." That does nothing to the claim that the girl (Undercover officer) repeatedly tell him she was 15, even if the premises does not allow underage person...

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## Horse_Rider

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600834971849326593



This one clip shows the serious trouble the Russians are in. It seems as if they can fire 3 AD missiles for one airborn target? And it's close to impossible to escape 3 SAM's with that outdated Russian equipment.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600596811957342316




Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600853353386610688


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600891715048460294


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Your friend wants to hide the Polish casualties, which is really staggering. I share the tweets of people who know more about the war than you and him. There are differences between experts in the current war and just fanboys like you and him who all they share is their hared of Russians and propaganda.
> 
> Btw, I live in my country and frankly where I live is irrelevant. I'll stay the course to share with whatever I think suits this topic.


Hide what ??? If somones dies its on our media nothing is hidden under the rag ... Now show we any evidence of thousands of Polish dying .... not some randome russia dud saying he got a source ... ... that is his *** .

Poland is not russia China belarus or other dictatorship that like's to hide numbers ...

this is first page if you search on google : polish fighter died in ukraine 







if you think they would be able to hide 5000 people your are ...


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600869798413422592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600910184506953735


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, DECEMBER 7​Dec 7, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Riley Bailey, George Barros, Madison Williams, Yekaterina Klepanchuk, and Frederick W. Kagan
December 7, 7:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian President Vladimir Putin is setting conditions for a protracted war of conquest in Ukraine. *During a meeting with the Russian Presidential Council for the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights (HRC), Putin remarked that the “special operation” in Ukraine can be a “lengthy process” and that the acquisition of new territory is a significant result of this process for Russia.[1] Putin compared himself favorably with Russian Tsar Peter the Great by noting that Russia now controls the Sea of Azov, which Peter the Great also fought for.[2] This invocation of Russian imperial history explicitly frames Putin’s current goals in Ukraine as overtly imperialistic and still maximalist. Putin is conditioning Russian domestic audiences to expect a protracted, grinding war in Ukraine that continues to seek the conquest of additional Ukrainian territory.
The Russian information space responded positively to Putin’s assertions and set further conditions for the protraction of the war, with one milblogger comparing Ukraine to Syria and noting that Russian forces did not start meaningfully experiencing victories on the battlefield until years into the operation.[3] ISW has previously observed that the Kremlin has been setting information conditions for the protraction of the war in Ukraine since the summer following Russian forces’ dismal failures to secure and retain their primary objectives.[4] This informational conditioning is fundamentally incompatible with any discussions regarding a ceasefire or negotiations. Putin seems unwilling to risk losing domestic momentum by halting his offensive operations even briefly, let alone to pursue an off-ramp short of his full objectives, which, as he is making increasingly clear, appear to include the reconstitution of the Russian Empire in some form.
*Putin notably is using the Russian HRC as a means to consolidate political power in a way that is fundamentally incompatible with basic principles of international human rights law. *As ISW previously reported, Putin changed the composition of the HRC on November 17, removing Russian human rights activists who were critical of Kremlin censorship and installing political and proxy officials as well as a prominent Russian military correspondent.[5] The use of a domestic human rights body to advocate and set conditions for the perpetuation of a genocidal war in Ukraine undermines statements made by the Kremlin on Russia’s purported commitment to human rights. Putin’s comment accusing the West of using human rights to violate state sovereignty undermines a central premise of the international effort to protect human rights.[6]
*Putin reiterated Russia’s formal position on the use of nuclear weapons in a statement to the Russian HRC on December 7 with no noteworthy changes*. Putin claimed that the threat of nuclear war is growing, but that Russia will not be the first to employ nuclear weapons.[7] Putin added, however, that if Russia is not the first to initiate the first use of nuclear weapons, it will also not be the second to do so, because the “possibility of using [a nuclear weapon] in the event of a nuclear strike on [Russian] territory are very limited.”[8] Putin reiterated that Russian nuclear doctrine is premised on self-defense and stated that any Russian nuclear use would be retaliatory. Putin also emphasized that Russia is not “crazy” and is acutely aware of the power of nuclear weapons but will not “brandish” them. Putin’s statements support ISW’s previous assessment that while Russian officials may engage in forms of nuclear saber-rattling as part of an information operation meant to undermine Western support for Ukraine, Russian officials have no intention of actually using them on the battlefield.[9]
*NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg stated that the Russian military seeks an operational pause in winter 2022-2023 to regain the initiative and conduct a counteroffensive in spring 2023, partially supporting ISW’s prior assessment.[10] *Stoltenberg told the _Financial Times_ on December 7 that Russia seeks to “freeze” the fighting in Ukraine “at least for a short period of time so they can regroup, repair, recover... [a]nd then try to launch a bigger offensive next spring.”[11] Stoltenberg‘s statement supports ISW’s assessment that an operational pause would favor Russia by depriving Ukraine of the initiative. An operational pause this winter would likely prematurely culminate Ukraine’s counter-offensive operations, increase the likelihood that Ukraine loses the initiative, and grant degraded Russian forces a valuable three-to-four-month reprieve to reconstitute and prepare to fight on better footing.[12]
Putin continues to seem unwilling to pursue such a cessation of fighting, however. The Russian military is continuing offensive operations around Bakhmut and is—so far—denying itself the operational pause that would be consistent with best military practice. Putin’s current fixation with continuing offensive operations around Bakhmut and elsewhere is contributing to Ukraine’s ability to maintain the military initiative in other parts of the theater. Ukraine’s continued operational successes depend on Ukrainian forces’ ability to continue successive operations through the winter of 2022-2023 without interruption.[13]
*Russian forces used Iranian-made drones to strike Ukrainian cities for the first time in three weeks, likely as a result of Russian forces having modified the drones for colder weather. *Ukrainian Air Force Command Spokesperson Yuriy Ihnat stated on December 7 that Russian forces resumed the use of Iranian-made loitering munitions after a three-week break and suggested that Russian forces had faced complications using the drones due to icing issues in colder weather.[14] Ukrainian Southern Command Spokesperson Natalia Humenyuk stated on December 7 that Russian forces resumed the use of the Iranian-made drones intending to exhaust Ukrainian air defenses in various areas of activity and open areas of the front in Ukraine.[15] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces deployed Shahed-136 drones in attacks on Kyiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Poltava, Zhytomyr, and Zaporizhia Oblasts.[16] Russian forces have likely modified the drones to operate in colder weather conditions and will likely increase their use in Ukraine in the coming weeks in support of their campaign against Ukrainian critical infrastructure. ISW has previously reported that Russian forces are increasingly reliant on Iranian-made weapon systems due to the depletion of the Russian military's high-precision weapons arsenal.[17]
*Russian efforts to pressure Belarus into joining the war in Ukraine may be causing internal friction in the Belarusian military. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported on December 7 that soldiers of the Belarusian border service and the Belarusian Armed forces are growing increasingly dissatisfied with the activities of the Belarusian military-political leadership due to the threat of Belarus entering the war in Ukraine.[18] ISW has previously assessed that Russian Defense Minister Army General Shoigu met with Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko and Belarusian Defense Minister Major General Viktor Khrenin on December 3 to place further pressure on Belarus to support Russia‘s offensive campaign in Ukraine.[19] ISW has also previously reported that Belarusian officials, including Lukashenko and Khrenin, have used rhetoric to support an ongoing Russian information operation aimed at fixing Ukrainian forces on the Belarusian-Ukrainian border with the threat of Belarus entering the war.[20] Russian pressure and the participation of Belarusian officials in the ongoing Russian information operation may be causing unease among Belarusian military personnel. ISW continues to assess that Belarus is highly unlikely to enter the war in Ukraine due to domestic factors that constrain Lukashenko’s willingness to do so.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian President Vladimir Putin is setting conditions for a protracted war of conquest in Ukraine.*
*Putin is using Russia’s Human Rights Council to consolidate power while rejecting principles of international human rights law.*
*NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg made comments supporting ISW’s previous assessments that an operational pause in the winter of 2022-2023 would favor Russia.*
*Russian forces used Shahed-136 drones in Ukraine for the first time in three weeks.*
*Russian efforts to pressure Belarus into joining the war in Ukraine may be causing friction in the Belarusian military.*
*Russian forces are likely increasing the pace of their counterattacks in eastern Kharkiv and western Luhansk Oblast.*
*Russian forces continued offensive operations in the Bakhmut and Avdiivka-Donetsk City areas.*
*Russian forces continued defensive operations and the reorientation of their forces in eastern Kherson Oblast.*
*Independent Russian media sources indicated that mobilization efforts will continue despite statements from Russian officials to the contrary.*
*Russian occupation authorities are likely transforming Mariupol, Donetsk Oblast, into a rear military and logistics base for Russian forces.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Ukrainian Counteroffensives—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and one supporting effort);
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast
Russian Supporting Effort—Southern Axis
Russian Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Ukrainian Counteroffensives (Ukrainian efforts to liberate Russian-occupied territories)
Eastern Ukraine: (Eastern Kharkiv Oblast-Western Luhansk Oblast)*
Russian forces are likely increasing the pace of their counterattacks in eastern Kharkiv and western Luhansk Oblast. Ukrainian Eastern Group of Forces Spokesperson Serhiy Cherevaty stated on December 7 that Russian forces are preparing a counteroffensive operation in western Luhansk Oblast, part of which would include operations in the direction of Kupyansk.[21] Cherevaty stated that Ukrainian forces are actively countering Russian counterattacks in the Svatove area as well as elsewhere.[22] A Russian milblogger claimed on December 6 that Russian forces conducted counterattacks along the entire line of the Svatove-Kreminna front.[23] The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed on December 7 that Russian forces continued offensive operations in the direction of Lyman.[24] Russian forces may be preparing for an increased pace of spoiling counterattacks in eastern Kharkiv and western Luhansk Oblast in order to preempt Ukrainian forces from increasing the pace of their eastern counteroffensive as conditions become more conducive for mechanized maneuver warfare in eastern Ukraine due to the winter.
Russian forces continued to defend their positions in the direction of Svatove amidst Russian claims of continued Ukrainian counteroffensive operations on December 7. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are defending in the direction of Kupyansk.[25] A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces continued limited attempts to break through in certain areas of the front in eastern Ukraine using small groups of forces.[26] The Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces are preparing to attack Russian positions along the Lyman-Peryshi-Synkivka line.[27] A Georgia-based open-source intelligence organization forecasted that Ukrainian forces are likely planning to surround Svatove and not assault it head-on.[28] ISW does not make assessments about specific future Ukrainian operations.
Russian forces conducted limited counterattacks as Ukrainian forces reportedly continued counteroffensive operations in the Kreminna area on December 7. The Ukrainian General staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian assault on Bilohorivka (12 km south of Kreminna).[29] A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces attacked Ukrainian positions in the direction of Chervonopopivka (6km north of Kreminna) and that Ukrainian forces withdrew from strongholds southwest of Ploshchanka (17km northwest of Kreminna).[30] Another Russian milblogger claimed that elements of the Russian 144th Guards Motorized Rifle Division of the 20th Guards Combined Arms Army are slowly advancing in the vicinity of Kreminna.[31] A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted assaults within 21km northwest of Kreminna near Ploshchanka and Chervonopopivka as well as along the Makiivka-Ploshchanka highway.[32] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued routine indirect fire along the line of contact in eastern Kharkiv and western Luhansk oblasts.[33]



*Russian Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Russian Subordinate Main Effort—Donetsk Oblast (Russian objective: Capture the entirety of Donetsk Oblast, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued ground attacks around Bakhmut on December 7. The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Ukrainian troops repelled attempted Russian attacks on Bakhmut itself, northeast of Bakhmut near Verkhnokamyanske (27km northeast of Bakhmut), Spirne (25km northeast of Bakhmut), Yakovlivka (12km northeast of Bakhmut), and south of Bakhmut near Bila Hora (15km southwest of Bakhmut) and Kurdiumivka (15km southwest of Bakhmut).[34] The attack on Bila Hora suggests that Russian forces may have crossed the Siverskyi Donets Donbas canal in Kurdiumivka and are pushing west.[35] Russian sources widely claimed that Wagner Group fighters took control of Yakovlivka and that fierce fighting is ongoing near Bakhmut in Opytne, Klishchiivka, and Soledar.[36] One Russian milblogger remarked that the daily small arms ammunition use of Wagner Group forces in the Bakhmut area is 2,000 rounds per day per person.[37] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Ukrainian troops unsuccessfully attempted to regain certain lost positions south of Bakhmut.[38] Russian sources largely discussed the intensity of operations in this area and emphasized high Ukrainian losses.[39]
Russian forces continued offensive operations in the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area on December 7. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops attacked northeast of Avdiivka toward Novobakhmutivka (13km northeast of Avdiivka) and on the southwestern outskirts of Donetsk City near Marinka and Novomykhailivka.[40] The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) People’s Militia posted footage of the 1st and 3rd DNR battalions reportedly striking Ukrainian positions in Avdiivka and southwest of Avdiivka in Vodiane.[41] A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian troops advanced slightly westward of Novoselivka (15km northeast of Avdiivka) and reached the H20 Kostiantynivka-Donetsk City highway.[42] DNR Head Denis Pushilin noted that the Russian capture of Avdiivka is of critical importance in order to alleviate the artillery pressure of claimed Ukrainian strikes on Donetsk City.[43] The Russian MoD claimed that Ukrainian forces attempted to regain lost positions southwest of Donetsk City in the Vuhledar area.[44]



*Supporting Effort—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Maintain frontline positions and secure rear areas against Ukrainian strikes)*
Russian forces continued to conduct defensive operations and are likely continuing to reorientate their forces in eastern Kherson Oblast as of December 7. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are defending positions on the left (east) bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast as well as strengthening its grouping of forces there.[45] Kherson Oblast Head Serhiy Khlan reported that Russian forces have decreased the number of their personnel on the eastern bank, where they are primarily stationed in observation posts.[46] Khlan also stated that Russian forces plan to pull major forces up from rear positions in eastern Kherson Oblast and elsewhere if Ukrainian forces attack Russian positions on the east bank.[47] Khlan also reported that Russian forces continue to construct trenches in eastern Kherson Oblast.[48] Russian Don Brigade commander Alexei Kondratiev denied that Ukrainian forces control any part of the Kinburn spit on December 7 in response to recent reports from Ukrainian officials that Ukrainian forces are conducting operations on the Kinburn Spit.[49]
Ukrainian forces continued to strike Russian positions and rear areas in Kherson Oblast on December 7. A Ukrainian source reported that Ukrainian shelled Nova Kakhovka and Hopry (near Hola Prystan) in Kherson Oblast.[50] A Russian source claimed that Ukrainian forces struck Hola Prystan with HIMARS rockets.[51] A Russian source also claimed that Russian air defenses repelled Ukrainian drone attacks targeting the Belbek airfield in Sevastopol in Russian-occupied Crimea.[52]
Russian forces continued routine artillery and missile strikes west of Hulyaipole, on the west bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast, and in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv oblasts on December 7.[53] Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces struck Kherson City, Ochakiv, Nikopol, and Zaporizhzhia City.[54] The Zaporizhia Oblast Administration reported that Russian forces also conducted drone attacks on targets in Zaporizhzhia City and that Ukrainian air defenses shot down six of the drones.[55] A Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces also struck Dnipro City using Shahed-136 drones.[56] Dnipropetrovsk Head Valentyn Reznichenko reported that Ukrainian air defenses shot down all eight Russian Shahed-136 drones in Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.[57]



*Note: ISW will report on activities in Kherson Oblast as part of the Southern Axis in this and subsequent updates. Ukraine’s counteroffensive in right-bank Kherson Oblast has accomplished its stated objectives, so ISW will not present a Southern Ukraine counteroffensive section until Ukrainian forces resume counteroffensives in southern Ukraine.
Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Independent Russian media sources indicated that Russian mobilization will continue, despite official Russian claims to the contrary. Russian President Vladimir Putin stated in a meeting with the Council on Civil Society and Human Rights (HRC) on December 7 that discussing additional mobilization measures “does not make sense” since there is “no need for the state and the Ministry of Defense today.”[58] Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov similarly deflected inquiries about another wave of mobilization, stating that “there are a lot of provocative messages, [however], we must focus on the information from the Ministry of Defense and the President.”[59] An independent Russian media source notably reported on December 5 that mobilization efforts may resume on December 12 and that 700,000 more Russians will mobilize between December and February.[60] This date is sooner than ISW has previously reported and is a direct contradiction to official Russian claims concerning mobilization.[61] Another independent Russian media source shared intercepted audio on December 5 of a Moscow mobilization official demanding that her employees pass out mobilization summonses at night.[62] Putin signed a federal law on December 5 that suspends civil service work if a civil service worker is mobilized.[63] A Russian milblogger also amplified a report that the government of Moscow City recently threatened criminal prosecution of those who did not appear to military registration and enlistment offices after receiving mobilization summonses.[64]
A Russian independent news source reported that Russian mobilization officials will target pro-Ukrainian sympathizers in Russia in the next wave of mobilization. This source reported that mobilization officials, with the aid of the Russian Ministry of Education and Russian universities, will specifically target students who “sympathize with the opponents of the war” and have participated in protests.[65] The report stated that officials will place these students in a special database of the Center for Combating Extremism of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation (Center "E") and will ensure that students in the database receive summonses.[66]
The Russian government attempted to assure its public that Russian forces no longer face logistical and equipment challenges, despite Russian milblogger claims to the contrary. Putin stated in a meeting with the Council on Civil Society and Human Rights (HRC) on December 7 that problems with equipment provision and other logistical support issues for Russian forces have “already been solved” and that he will look into any reports that require additional attention.[67] Putin subsequently claimed that fewer soldiers are fleeing the frontlines.[68] The Russian MoD continued to boast about effective training for mobilized personnel with videos of Russian forces training in the Republic of Buryatia, Saratov Oblast, and Belarus.[69] A prominent Russian milblogger stated that the situation on the frontlines has stabilized in many ways and that Russian industry is now working.[70] A Russian source reported that those attending the meeting with Putin and the HRC were not allowed to bring up sensitive issues related to the war including the ongoing protest of mothers and wives of the mobilized.[71] A Russian milblogger stated that if Putin must personally deal with the provision of equipment to the Russian military, then the problem is not a logistical one, but a greater issue with the management of the military.[72] Another Russian milblogger condemned Russian military authorities for the lack of supplies and training, contrasting the logistical failures of the Russian forces with the successes of Wagner and stating that the Russian military must get its priorities straight.[73]
Russia continues to suffer from low morale and economic strain due to poorly-implemented mobilization. Russian sources continued to report instances of low morale in the Russian forces including one suicide, another attempted suicide, and multiple deaths due to alcohol abuse among the mobilized.[74] Russian media reported that a Russian mobilized soldier accidentally killed another servicemember in a training accident at a training ground in Luga, Leningrad Oblast on December 6.[75] A Russian source reported that the Russian National Guard deployed to entertain children in Elizavetino, Transbaikalia, because all male breadwinners were mobilized in that town.[76] Another Russian source stated that villagers and local officials have supported the livelihoods of struggling families of the mobilized by sharing in tasks like slaughtering pigs on a farm or catching crucian carp.[77] One Russian milblogger lamented that poor Russian cities are subsidizing mobilization by “plugging holes from the last crumbs” while Moscow Oblast has a multi-million-dollar budget.[78]
The Wagner Group experienced a case of desertion on December 6. A Russian source reported that an unidentified man in camouflage shot and wounded police officers in Novoshakhtinsk, Rostov Oblast, before escaping.[79] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that authorities apprehended the man on December 7 and identified him as a convict recruited into the Wagner Group from a penal colony in Ufa, Republic of Bashkortostan.[80] Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin responded to the case by stating that it is of a “closed operational nature.”[81] Prigozhin assured that a Wagner task force will conduct an investigation of the case.
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)*
Russian occupation authorities continue efforts to tighten social control in occupied territories by deporting children to Russia. Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) head Leonid Pasechnik reported that United Russia’s Humanitarian Cooperation Headquarters head Anna Kuznetsova spent a weekend visiting Popasna Raion and Rovenky of occupied Luhansk Oblast with a humanitarian mission on December 5.[82] Kuznetsova noted that the Headquarters is sending children affected by the war to Sochi, Krasnodar Krai, for “rehabilitation.” Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Russian occupation officials are transporting children from Luhansk Oblast to the Chechen Republic for patriotic education.[83] Haidai stated that there are already more than 100 cases of deportation. The forcible transfer of children of one group to another “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group” is a violation of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.[84]
Russian occupation authorities seem to be transforming Mariupol, Donetsk Oblast, into a rear military and logistics base for Russian forces. The Ukrainian advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko reported that Russian forces settled in Ahrobaza and Berdyanske near Mariupol, resulting in military patrols on the village streets.[85] Andryushchenko further reported that occupation officials installed a mobile checkpoint for cars and male pedestrians in the “Morning Market” area of Mariupol for the first time since September.[86] The actions seem to be concerted efforts to increase security measures in Mariupol and the surrounding region.
Ukrainian partisans reportedly attempted an attack on Melitopol occupation administration deputy head Nikolai Volyk in Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast, with an improvised explosive device on December 7.[87] The sources reported that the attack did not injure Volyk.
Ukrainian authorities continue to enforce tough measures on occupation collaborators. The office of the Prosecutor General of Ukraine announced on December 7 that it convicted a Ukrainian Orthodox Church Moscow Patriarchate priest in Severodonetsk, Luhansk Oblast, for providing information about Ukrainian forces to Russian forces since April 2022.[88]
*Note: ISW does not receive any classified material from any source, uses only publicly available information, and draws extensively on Russian, Ukrainian, and Western reporting and social media as well as commercially available satellite imagery and other geospatial data as the basis for these reports. References to all sources used are provided in the endnotes of each update. * 
[1] http://kremlin dot ru/events/president/news/70046 https://****/rybar/41821; https://ria dot ru/20221207/putin-1837018497.html; https://****/rian_ru/187966; https://****/rian_ru/187968
[2] https://tass dot com/politics/1547333
[3] https://****/boris_rozhin/72229
[4] https://isw.pub/RusCampaignJuly19
[5] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[6] https://tass dot com/politics/1547263
[7] http://kremlin dot ru/events/president/news/70046
[8] http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/70046
[9] https://isw.pub/UkrWar110622; https://isw.pub/UkrWar110622;
[10] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[11] https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_209984.htm
[12] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[13] https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-***...
[14] https://armyinform.com dot ua/2022/12/07/yurij-ignat-syly-ppo-vidpraczyuvaly-vchora-po-dronah-kamikadze-na-vidminno/; https://nv dot ua/ukr/ukraine/events/ppo-ukrajini-zbila-vsi-iranski-droni-novini-ukrajini-50289293.html
[15] https://armyinform.com dot ua/2022/12/07/yurij-ignat-syly-ppo-vidpraczyuvaly-vchora-po-dronah-kamikadze-na-vidminno/; https://nv dot ua/ukr/ukraine/events/ppo-ukrajini-zbila-vsi-iranski-droni-novini-ukrajini-50289293.html
[16] https://****/kommunist/13981; https://****/rybar/41805;https://****/rea... ; https://****/stranaua/79119* ; *https://****/readovkanews/48381 ; https://****/readovkanews/48382 ; ...
[17] https://isw.pub/UkrWar110122
[18] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid08ERrBJJor2mUkZyp3z7...
[19] https://isw.pub/UkrWar120322
[20] https://isw.pub/UkrWar110222 ; https://isw.pub/UkrWar120122 ; https:...
[21] https://gordonua dot com/ukr/news/war/rosijski-okupanti-gotujut-kontrnastup-u-luganskij-oblasti-mozhlivo-na-kup-janskomu-naprjamku-zsu-1639698.html; https://lb dot ua/society/2022/12/07/538388_okupanti_gotuyut_kontrataku.html
[22] https://gordonua dot com/ukr/news/war/rosijski-okupanti-gotujut-kontrnastup-u-luganskij-oblasti-mozhlivo-na-kup-janskomu-naprjamku-zsu-1639698.html; https://lb dot ua/society/2022/12/07/538388_okupanti_gotuyut_kontrataku.html
[23] https://****/vysokygovorit/10206 
[24] https://****/mod_russia/22428
[25] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0SWy7AAu7QMdxZP73fyr...
[26] https://****/rybar/41812
[27] https://****/rybar/41812
[28] https://****/CITeam/2945 ; https://****/csources/162917 
[29] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid08ERrBJJor2mUkZyp3z7...
[30] https://****/vysokygovorit/10206 
[31] https://****/vysokygovorit/10206 
[32] https://****/rybar/41812
[33] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid08ERrBJJor2mUkZyp3z7...
[34] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid08ERrBJJor2mUkZyp3z7...
[35] https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1600407413277876224?s=20&t=F5...
[36] https://****/kommunist/14008; https://****/grey_zone/16093; https://****/epoddubny/14037; https://****/boris_rozhin/72199; https:/... https://****/voenkorKotenok/43416; https://****/milinfolive/94154; h...
[37] https://****/yaremshooter/499
[38] https://****/mod_russia/22428
[39] https://****/rybar/41815; https://****/wargonzo/9639; https://****/rlz...
[40] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid08ERrBJJor2mUkZyp3z7...
[41] https://****/nm_dnr/9546; https://****/nm_dnr/9545; https://****/zhoga...
[42] https://****/wargonzo/9639
[43] https://tass dot ru/interviews/16512507
[44] https://****/mod_russia/22428
[45] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid08ERrBJJor2mUkZyp3z7...
[46]




__ https://www.facebook.com/sergey.khlan/posts/5755118334609527




[47]




__ https://www.facebook.com/sergey.khlan/posts/5755118334609527




[48]




__ https://www.facebook.com/sergey.khlan/posts/5755118334609527




[49] https://****/boris_rozhin/72202
[50] https://****/hueviyherson/30501 ; https://****/hueviyherson/30493 ; ...
[51] https://****/readovkanews/48424
[52] https://****/readovkanews/48396 
[53] https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid08ERrBJJor2mUkZyp3z7... ; https://****/vilkul/2352 ; https://****/Yevtushenko_E/1669 
[54] https://****/zoda_gov_ua/15287 ; https://****/khersonskaODA/2338 ; h... ; https://****/dnipropetrovskaODA/2673
[55] https://****/zoda_gov_ua/15287 
[56] https://****/rybar/41805
[57] https://****/dnipropetrovskaODA/2673
[58] https://ria dot ru/20221207/putin-1837018497.html; https://****/rian_ru/187966; https://****/rian_ru/187968
[59] https://****/guberniaband/5250 ; https://notes.citeam.org/mobilization-dec-5-6 
[60] https://****/volyamedia/487; https://****/volyamedia/479 ; https://notes.citeam.org/mobilization-dec-5-6 
[61] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[62] https://twitter.com/the_ins_ru/status/1599695091672576004?s=20&t=S-h73JI...
[63] https://publication.pravo(dot)gov.ru/Document/View/0001202212050012?index=0&rangeSize=1; https://ria(dot)ru/20221205/zakon-1836435752.html; https://notes.citeam dot org/mobilization-dec-5-6
[64] https://****/avtozaklive/17135; https://****/msk_gde/2798 
[65] https://****/volyamedia/487
[66] https://****/volyamedia/487 
[67] https://ria dot ru/20221207/putin-1837018497.html; https://****/rian_ru/187966; https://****/rian_ru/187968
[68] https://ria dot ru/20221207/putin-1837018497.html; https://****/rian_ru/187966; https://****/rian_ru/187968
[69] https://****/mod_russia/22393; https://****/mod_russia/22413; https://****/mod_russia/22412
[70] https://****/truekpru/100788; https://****/sashakots/37525
[71] https://****/svobodnieslova/1023; https://****/svobodnieslova/1022
[72] https://****/grey_zone/16095 ; https://****/Hard_Blog_Line/8457
[73] https://****/vladlentatarsky/17922 
[74] https://****/ostorozhno_novosti/13047 ; https://notes.citeam.org/mobil...
[75] https://****/ostorozhno_novosti/13040 ; https://notes.citeam.org/mobilization-dec-5-6
[76] https://****/mobilizationnews/5223 
[77] https://29(dot)ru/text/animals/2022/12/05/71872019/; https://notes.citeam.org/mobilization-dec-5-6  ; https://vk.com/wall-187580720_36771
[78] https://****/notes_veterans/6947
[79] https://****/bazabazon/14826; https://****/bazabazon/14825 ; https://****/bazabazon/14824 ; https://****/bazabazon/14828
[80] https://****/bazabazon/14837 ; https://****/bazabazon/14838 ; https://****/bazabazon/14842 ;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600448863189360640 ; https://twitter.com/bad_moskal/status/1600481751566098433 ; https://****/stranaua/79167 ; https://****/stranaua/79134 ; https://****/stranaua/79132
[81] https://****/concordgroup_official/103
[82] https://****/glava_lnr_info/547
[83] https://****/serhiy_hayday/8848
[84] https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1...
[85] https://****/andriyshTime/4846
[86] https://****/andriyshTime/4846
[87] https://ria do ru/20221207/volyk-1836868863.html ; https://****/readovkanews/48395 ; https://****/bazabazon/14834
[88] https://www.gp.gov dot ua/ua/posts/do-12-rokiv-za-gratami-zasudzeno-svyashhennika-upc-mp-v-luganskii-oblasti-za-informuvannya-voroga-pro-poziciyi-ukrayinskix-zaxisnikiv

File Attachments: 



Kherson-Mykolaiv Battle Map Draft December 07,2022.png



Donetsk Battle Map Draft December 07,2022.png



Kharkiv Battle Map Draft December 07,2022.png



DraftUkraineCOTDecember07,2022.png

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Depends, if that think tanks require security clearance. If it does, then yes, it preclude him from doing those, because you cannot have a security clearance if you have a felony.
> 
> On the other hand, I did EXACTLY the same job and held EXACTLY the same rank as Scott Ritter. The only different being he was in the Marine and I was in the Army. And I wouldn't not be qualified for any political think tank (I did try to get those job).
> 
> While we all have our own political view, that is independent on how he performs his job as a Staff S2 when he was in the service, I am a average S2, his 201 and 214 indicated his performance is BELOW average. He is a bad intel officer because he is bad at doing his job, his 201 (Which is public, you can go look up at any National Archive office) stated he is Confrontational and extremely impatient, both arpublic-vpn-260.opengw.netpublic-vpn-260.opengw.nete bad for business in intelligence.
> 
> On the other hand, he was convicted because he perform an sex act on himself for an undercover cop that repeatedly claim she was 15 years old, this is not about police provide false information (Ie claim to be 15 to "enact fantasy" because the chatroom have a 18+ policy.....) as long as the police did not incite the act, that is well within the law for undercover to lie about their age and for the principal to incriminate themselves.
> 
> His defence was like "I have masturbated in front of a 15 years old in a bar which I think she only claim to be 15 years old to seek thrill because the bar would not allow anyone to enter unless they are 18....." That does nothing to the claim that the girl (Undercover officer) repeatedly tell him she was 15, even if the premises does not allow underage person...


so your say in nutshell that his views are not acceptable because he can not get a security clearance?

but at the same time the view of a twitter celebrity or journalist that also don't have the same clearance is acceptable

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> so your say in nutshell that his views are not acceptable because he can not get a security clearance?
> 
> but at the same time the view of a twitter celebrity or journalist that also don't have the same clearance is acceptable


No, I said in a nutshell his view is not acceptable is because in his personnel file report, he was deemed BELOW AVERAGE on his job. That's someone at a higher rank said at him.

Again, I have the same job and same rank as him, I know what his job requires, and the 201-file said he didn't have those quality. You cannot be confrontational and impatient if you work company intel.

And if you are into result driven, tell me how many things he had predicted right?? Let's compare

Malcome Nance, who have the same job in the Navy, made this 5 days BEFORE the invasion, 






90% of what Malcome Said is correct except the route of Russian invasion, which is closer to Kyiv than closer to Lviv he predicted

I, who had the same job and same Rank in the Army, I had predicted Russian is going to have a high chance to lose Kherson (I said it multiple time before Kherson fall that Russia would be considered luck if they still hold Kherson after Winter) And I have been repeatedly said before June once Ukraine have HIMARS they will go after Kupiansk (Ask @Oldman1 if you wanted confirmation), and predicted even back in April Ukraine is going to have HIMARS (Again, ask Oldman1 for confirmation). And I have predicted how Ukraine is going to attack Kherson by swinging around their force and attack thru Snihurivka (ask @Paul2 if you want confirmation). I even predicted Mariupol will eventually fall but will be held on to a point that will make the subsequent Russian assault difficult. I may not be 90% correct like Nance, I am about 60-70% correct in my prediction of the event. But then as I said, I am an average intelligence officer. All my prediction is open to search in this and the other Ukrainian War Thread. you can go look it up if you want to. 

Now tell me what did Ritter prediction went the way he said? I can't think of any other than he said Russia will invade before the war and it turn out that way. 

That is why his view is not correct. He neither have the stuff nor made correct prediction in military matter. And that is really important for a S2, because how your company move DEPENDS on your prediction. That in turn depends on your intelligence analysis skill.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600950645087178752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600921850691059712

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## The SC

Bakhmut: PMC vs PMC.. The Russian Wagner are hunting down the Ukrainian_Western PMC..

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> Russia is worried, but not THAT worried about that.
> 
> No, its to finish off Ukraine's manpower to fight the war and operate all this NATO "equipment" you talk about.
> 
> THey dont have to- who will operate them?A grandma from Ukraine?? lmaooo
> 
> They lost that power, as you will soon find out- how did EU and US already get DRAINED militarily without even fighting in the war? i mean blockhead Polish govt sent some active army people to die in Ukraine, which was NATO directly being involved in the war (then we get the propaganda on PDF of "NATO is not directly involved in this war" blahy blah BS), so yea, NATO already got Afghanistanized without fighting directly.
> 
> only in your mouth. cheers.


It stops when russias economy is grows 22x: EU/NATO/US economy is 22x Russias and that was before Russia committed suicide. It wanted a buffer and now its strategic bases are being bombarded. Not exactly the KGB genius.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600939618387402752

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599851201314492420


Just go to europe: traffic congestion and busy airports. I just came back after a 4 day visit to two countries. You are spreading fabricated videos/

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## 925boy

aviator_fan said:


> It stops when russias economy is grows 22x: EU/NATO/US economy is 22x Russias


And how many times was US and NATO's economy compared to Afghanistan after NATO occupied Afghanistan for 22 years and left as losers?

All those stats don't mean crap, actually, it usually means they will BEAT your azz on the battlefield- Houthis vs Saudis comes to my mind now.


aviator_fan said:


> and that was before Russia committed suicide.


Russia committing suicide = your perception =/= truth.


aviator_fan said:


> It wanted a buffer and now its strategic bases are being bombarded.


how many and how much capacity has been reduced? BESIIIIDESSSSS....those base hits in Russia AND persistent civilian attacks in Donetsk by Ukrainian army only proves that Ukrainian military is not winning and is actually angry, disorganized and retaliating via war crimes (attack on Donetsk civilians- Minsk agreement type crimes and crap again).
Ukrainian army is taking losses now that will accelerate its demise in the next few months.

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Iraqis were resisting from 2003 till 2017 when the last battle took place in Mosul. We should understand that the height of battles took place in Fallujah, Ramadi, Hadith, and other towns in central and northern Iraq in 2008. So it was not 21 days but over 14 years.
> 
> Former presidential candidate Senator John McCain admitted in the 2008 presidential debates that the US was on the brink of being defeated had General Petraeus not struck agreements with the Awakening Council in the Sunni heartland in Iraq.


Republican Guard got nearly wiped out in 1991 and IRaqis came to the negotiation table. US never intended to go into Baghdad. Iraqis did not stop the US from capturing Bagdad.

US captured capital in 2003.

Russia intended to go to the capital and capture it and bring Ukrainians to negotiate. So by this calculation of a war, it has not even started the war and is already getting its bases 100 miles from Moscow attacked, not using its air force for fear of further depletion, and out of half its armor.



925boy said:


> And how many times was US and NATO's economy compared to Afghanistan after NATO occupied Afghanistan for 22 years and left as losers?
> 
> All those stats don't mean crap, actually, it usually means they will BEAT your azz on the battlefield- Houthis vs Saudis comes to my mind now.
> 
> Russia committing suicide = your perception =/= truth.
> 
> how many and how much capacity has been reduced? BESIIIIDESSSSS....those base hits in Russia AND persistent civilian attacks in Donetsk by Ukrainian army only proves that Ukrainian military is not winning and is actually angry, disorganized and retaliating via war crimes (attack on Donetsk civilians- Minsk agreement type crimes and crap again).
> Ukrainian army is taking losses now that will accelerate its demise in the next few months.


Fair point but Russians are not Taliban. Anti-insurgency in Afghanistan has been lost both by Nato and Russia.

Economic might does play and Russians are a developed industrialized country. They are not fighting like insurgents.

Or in your wonderful mind you have read the USSR version of history that they prevailed in Afgahnistan>



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Unless Russians confirm it, your and others' claims are just hogwash.


Coming from the guy thats posting unconfirmed Russian claims don't you think you are being a hypocrite? I normally gloss past your and other bot posts (regardless of who is making claims) because they are all hog wash. Fortunately there is more substance than bot infested twitter posts on this thread

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600186864572325888
> 
> 
> 
> It is temporary. You need proof? Just look at why your illegal settlers are planting the Al-Gharghad tree (Box-thorns tree). That is how we (Muslims) know the divine promise will be fulfilled. Your return was foretold. Your efforts to plant the Al-Gharghad trees were foretold as it is the only one that will hide your illegal settlers when the promised day arrives. So to sum it up, your stay is temporary.
> 
> Your illegal and unjust conquest will never go beyond the West side of Jordan river, and there will never be Zion between Euphrates and the Nile. You'll be confined to the West side of Jordan river until the Freemasonry empire is destroyed through the will of Allah (subhaana wata'Allah).
> 
> Freemasonry empire = Gog and Magog empire


I think you are giving a wishful sermon. It bothers me that the Israel is conducting apartheid policies. But you are also living a wishful dream: Israel has weakened Syria and established friendly relations with 8 Arab countries. Saudi Arabia is a matter of time (they do take intelligence related technology from Israel). So much for your prophecy....Arabs have backstabbed the Palestenians


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600975992868044802
Russian losses now exceed 8,300

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600493170617458695
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600493169866678275
> Oops, the EU sanctions against Russian are having negative effects on Europeans themselves. Sweet.


I read the FT every day. There has been no article like this in the last two weeks. Pls stop spreading lies. It burns you that Russians are a hollow power. But feel free to be a Russian bot on behalf for the losing side



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Online trolls calling a decorated military officer with a rank of colonel a "shill". The irony! It is one thing if you don't agree with his assessment, but calling a senior military general a "shill" when you're nobody in his mother's basement is outrageous, in my view. First do something with your life and make a name for yourself before you can say anything against people who have accomplished far more than you. He is hiding behind a pseudo name and have the audacity to call Colonel Douglas McGregor a "shill". Unbelievable. These trolls have loudmouths that they can't control. Just go back to the hole you crawl out of.


At least in the US an incompetent colonel is allowed to speak his mind. Where is the equivalent in Russia? Its because nobody speaks is why they are losing the war. They are yes men too afraid to speak their mind and in the process destroying their own country while people like you are bot posting fake financial times quotes and pics from 2013

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## Vergennes

aviator_fan said:


> Just go to europe: traffic congestion and busy airports. I just came back after a 4 day visit to two countries. You are spreading fabricated videos/



I like how Russians are telling us how we are freezing to death and starving so nice of them to think about us. Meanwhile more than 20% of Russians don't have toilets. Of course easy to swallow for the average svetlana watching Russia 1.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600958225318580224

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## 925boy

aviator_fan said:


> Fair point but Russians are not Taliban. Anti-insurgency in Afghanistan has been lost both by Nato and Russia.
> 
> Economic might does play and Russians are a developed industrialized country. They are not fighting like insurgents.


All good.


aviator_fan said:


> Or in your wonderful mind you have read the USSR version of history that they prevailed in Afgahnistan>


No, but Russian military and nation today is in much better overall situation independently AND in relation to global powers. Fighting Russia has already sucked out EU, US and NATO- so that's already a strooong hint as to the power this country has, and it hasnt buckled or lost yet- those are facts. "Russia lost already" - fake and irrelevant hypotheticals by Russia-haters on PDF.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600915154803515393

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## Broccoli

aviator_fan said:


> Just go to europe: traffic congestion and busy airports. I just came back after a 4 day visit to two countries. You are spreading fabricated videos/



In fact my local gas stations prices have been under 2€ for quite a while and before Russia invaded Ukraine prices were normally around 2,50€. Clearly new logistic lines work well.

Finnish people have a saying "In Russia everything is sh1t expect p1ss".


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600923068297515013

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600912939774418944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600842727104843777

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600926330337435648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600920929319604225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600927259740684295

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600906641649848320

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600878622348222464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600941501009170432

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## BHAN85

Broccoli said:


> In fact my local gas stations prices have been under 2€ for quite a while and before Russia invaded Ukraine prices were normally around 2,50€. Clearly new logistic lines work well.
> 
> Finnish people have a saying "In Russia everything is sh1t expect p1ss".


Here gasoline/diesel price increased after war, but last weeks are decreasing again.









Gasoline prices around the world, 05-Dec-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com


Gas prices by country using official data sources.




www.globalpetrolprices.com













Diesel prices around the world, 05-Dec-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com


Diesel prices by country using official data sources.




www.globalpetrolprices.com





But it still keeps happening something that never happened before war: Diesel is more expensive than gasoline.

BTW in "shit" Russia fuel prices are less half than in Finland


----------



## The SC

*Mozart Group says dire media reports about the situation in Artyomovsk/Bakhmut are true..*


The Ukrainian military is taking massive casualties in the battle for Artyomovsk (known as Bakhmut by Kiev), which is the lynchpin of the Donetsk frontline, the US Mozart Group has revealed to Newsweek.

The retired Marine who heads the group, which claims charity status but also trains Ukraine’s military, alleges that some units are seeing casualty rates of 70% and more.

With the Ukrainian military tightly controlling media access to the front, Mozart is notable for regularly posting photos and videos of what is going on, _“which is an absolute annihilation of Ukrainian frontline towns to an extent that I have not seen in the media,”_ Andrew Milburn, who was a colonel in the US Marines, told the magazine.

_“Bakhmut is like Dresden, and the countryside looks like Passchendaele,”_ he said, in reference to a German city destroyed by Allied bombing in WWII and an infamous mud-soaked WWI battlefield, respectively.

The few references to Artyomovsk in Ukrainian media, both legacy and social, have described the battle as a _“meat grinder”_ with many dead and wounded, though official casualty figures have not been released.

The Russian Defense Ministry has not posted detailed claims of Ukrainian casualties in Artyomovsk, but has reported on advances both north and south of the city, threatening its encirclement.

Ukrainian units training with Mozart _“have been taking extraordinarily high casualties,”_ Milburn told Newsweek. _“The numbers you are reading in the media about 70 percent and above casualties being routine are not exaggerated.”_

Ukrainians are struggling to get new recruits into the line to replace the losses, Milburn admitted, noting that about 80% of the people sent to Mozart for training have never fired a weapon before.

While admitting Mozart is giving Ukrainian troops combat training, Milburn insists his _“volunteers”_ have a _“higher emotional intelligence”_ and don’t actually engage in the fighting. Mozart is a registered tax-free charity _“that's doing mostly humanitarian work,”_ he told Newsweek. Their name is a deliberate counterpoint to the Russian Wagner Group, a private military company heavily involved in the fighting around Bakhmut.


https://www.rt.com/russia/567915-ukraine-bakhmut-front-mozart/

https://en.topwar.ru/206418-bojcy-v...naemnikov-iz-chvk-mocart-pod-artemovskom.html




__





Loading…






www.rt.com





https://www.newsweek.com/wagner-gro...aine-mozart-group-russia-andy-milburn-1765321

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## Viet

Putin, the drunken clown



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600847388242894848

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## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> Here gasoline/diesel price increased after war, but last weeks are decreasing again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gasoline prices around the world, 05-Dec-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com
> 
> 
> Gas prices by country using official data sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globalpetrolprices.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diesel prices around the world, 05-Dec-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com
> 
> 
> Diesel prices by country using official data sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globalpetrolprices.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it still keeps happening something that never happened before war: Diesel is more expensive than gasoline.
> 
> BTW in "shit" Russia fuel prices are less half than in Finland


Mexico gas price is around $1.1 a litre. While Russia is about 0.9-1.0 per liter

The problem with gas price in the west is not because it is higher than say Mexico or Russia, but it is because of the tax involved. In Australia, the gas price today is 1.63/liter (around 1.10 per liter as well) That is after the Australian Government charge 46c per liter on gasoline product. 

On the other hand, I don't know what the diesel price where you live, Diesel is more expensive than E10 fuel since 2015 where I lived, that have to do with environmental surcharge. 



https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/default/files/is_082.pdf

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## Broccoli

BHAN85 said:


> Here gasoline/diesel price increased after war, but last weeks are decreasing again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gasoline prices around the world, 05-Dec-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com
> 
> 
> Gas prices by country using official data sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globalpetrolprices.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diesel prices around the world, 05-Dec-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com
> 
> 
> Diesel prices by country using official data sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globalpetrolprices.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it still keeps happening something that never happened before war: Diesel is more expensive than gasoline.
> 
> BTW in "shit" Russia fuel prices are less half than in Finland



Russian median salary is around 1000$ and minimum is only 240$. Compare that with average Finnish salary what is over 2900€. Of course we shouldn't forget that outside few larger cities what are on same level as west (Moscow & Saint Petersburg) Russia is basically a third wold country.










Russia Wages 2022 | Minimum & Average | Take-profit.org


Wages in Russia was 975.646 USD/Month in 2022. Latest statistics on minimum and average salaries in Russia. Historical data on low and high skilled wages on Take-profit.org.



take-profit.org












Finland's median monthly income surpasses €3,300


The median monthly full-time salary in Finland was 3,314 euros last year, rising from 3,228 in 2020, according to Statistics Finland.




yle.fi

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> No, I said in a nutshell his view is not acceptable is because in his personnel file report, he was deemed BELOW AVERAGE on his job. That's someone at a higher rank said at him.
> 
> Again, I have the same job and same rank as him, I know what his job requires, and the 201-file said he didn't have those quality. You cannot be confrontational and impatient if you work company intel.
> 
> And if you are into result driven, tell me how many things he had predicted right?? Let's compare
> 
> Malcome Nance, who have the same job in the Navy, made this 5 days BEFORE the invasion,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 90% of what Malcome Said is correct except the route of Russian invasion, which is closer to Kyiv than closer to Lviv he predicted
> 
> I, who had the same job and same Rank in the Army, I had predicted Russian is going to have a high chance to lose Kherson (I said it multiple time before Kherson fall that Russia would be considered luck if they still hold Kherson after Winter) And I have been repeatedly said before June once Ukraine have HIMARS they will go after Kupiansk (Ask @Oldman1 if you wanted confirmation), and predicted even back in April Ukraine is going to have HIMARS (Again, ask Oldman1 for confirmation). And I have predicted how Ukraine is going to attack Kherson by swinging around their force and attack thru Snihurivka (ask @Paul2 if you want confirmation). I even predicted Mariupol will eventually fall but will be held on to a point that will make the subsequent Russian assault difficult. I may not be 90% correct like Nance, I am about 60-70% correct in my prediction of the event. But then as I said, I am an average intelligence officer. All my prediction is open to search in this and the other Ukrainian War Thread. you can go look it up if you want to.
> 
> Now tell me what did Ritter prediction went the way he said? I can't think of any other than he said Russia will invade before the war and it turn out that way.
> 
> That is why his view is not correct. He neither have the stuff nor made correct prediction in military matter. And that is really important for a S2, because how your company move DEPENDS on your prediction. That in turn depends on your intelligence analysis skill.


Interesting the guy here whenever criticized was bashed for his questionable sexual preference , its the first time he is criticized for his performance in his job . somebody wonder why .
the question here is not if he good at his job or not . the question is that is his questionable sexual behavior a reason to chalk him out ? is he not be able to get a security clearance for a felony happened 14 years ago a good reason to say he can't be trusted on the matter related to Ukraine , Russia situation ?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601089920105590786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601139720880156672

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> Interesting the guy here whenever criticized was bashed for his questionable sexual preference , its the first time he is criticized for his performance in his job . somebody wonder why .
> the question here is not if he good at his job or not . the question is that is his questionable sexual behavior a reason to chalk him out ? is he not be able to get a security clearance for a felony happened 14 years ago a good reason to say he can't be trusted on the matter related to Ukraine , Russia situation ?


Again, I have listed a set of "Result Driven" discussion, if you choose to ignore that, that is not my problem. 

He is bad on his job because he is bad on doing them, and that's in his track record. An Intelligence officer need to have insight on how to run a battle so you can predict your enemy movement as well as how to plan ahead, as I shown, he is not even at 50% percentile when it comes down to reading the situation in Ukraine (Nance get it 90% right, I probably just above 50). If so, then how his word can be trusted on the matter related to the war when he does not give a clear prediction on what will happen next?? That is why his "Take" on the Ukrainian-Russian situation is shit. Because his lacking insight not because he masturbate in front of a special agent who claim to be 15.. 

I don't really care who he is privately, he can be the biggest jerk on earth for all I care, if you can do your job, you do your job. On the other hand, apple don't fell far from the tree. If you can't put your cap in your bottle, how do you do your job effectively??

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600939618387402752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600968524993769472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600978956554944512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601185077626810368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601195547729473536

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601104503373066240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601131664197189632

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## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601104503373066240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601131664197189632


Would have been funny if it hit the Z symbol.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Again, I have listed a set of "Result Driven" discussion, if you choose to ignore that, that is not my problem.
> 
> He is bad on his job because he is bad on doing them, and that's in his track record. An Intelligence officer need to have insight on how to run a battle so you can predict your enemy movement as well as how to plan ahead, as I shown, he is not even at 50% percentile when it comes down to reading the situation in Ukraine (Nance get it 90% right, I probably just above 50). If so, then how his word can be trusted on the matter related to the war when he does not give a clear prediction on what will happen next?? That is why his "Take" on the Ukrainian-Russian situation is shit. Because his lacking insight not because he masturbate in front of a special agent who claim to be 15..
> 
> I don't really care who he is privately, he can be the biggest jerk on earth for all I care, if you can do your job, you do your job. On the other hand, apple don't fell far from the tree. If you can't put your cap in your bottle, how do you do your job effectively??


then next time that people want too discredit his take on Ukraine war better use his track records not sexual behavior . till yesterday all the post about him use his sexual felony to discredit him , nobody used his track records

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## Reashot Xigwin

Let's point and laugh at the Russian 🤣

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600910184506953735


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## Reashot Xigwin

Hack-Hook said:


> Interesting the guy here whenever criticized was bashed for his questionable sexual preference , its the first time he is criticized for his performance in his job . somebody wonder why .
> the question here is not if he good at his job or not . the question is that is his questionable sexual behavior a reason to chalk him out ? is he not be able to get a security clearance for a felony happened 14 years ago a good reason to say he can't be trusted on the matter related to Ukraine , Russia situation ?



"Questionable sexual preference" The guy's a pedo. 

Also he still to this day still think the rusky are still winning. That's not someone that should be taken seriously. 

Heck I have better track records for correctly predicting thing than he is (from saying Russian army are garbage, from calling out the invasion will happen, to saying Ukraine can defeat Russia.) Yet no one try to get me on TV

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> then next time that people want too discredit his take on Ukraine war better use his track records not sexual behavior . till yesterday all the post about him use his sexual felony to discredit him , nobody used his track records


I have been pointing out Ritter inconsistence since probably day 1 in the war since he is opening his mouth.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601218874166243328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601217535432851456


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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> All good.
> 
> No, but Russian military and nation today is in much better overall situation independently AND in relation to global powers. Fighting Russia has already sucked out EU, US and NATO- so that's already a strooong hint as to the power this country has, and it hasnt buckled or lost yet- those are facts. "Russia lost already" - fake and irrelevant hypotheticals by Russia-haters on PDF.


Its BS when somebody is saying that Russia has lost already. Nobody loses till fat lady sings or otherwise more likely finds a negotiated settlement. That I agree with you.

What I won't disagree with you that the nation is in a much better situation. Automotive production (which is much simpler than arms production) is down 60%. 

Oil power is good as long as you can continue to find new reserves. The quality of Russian oil reserves is so poor that within the next 10 years nearly 100% of them could be considered hard to recover. This will require the nation’s producers to develop techniques used in American shale fields, notably hydraulic fracturing, he said.

Those oil services firms that do the work are all western and so are the major turbine providers for the gas pipeline. 

But I don't think anybody on this thread lives in Russia so no basis to say that economy collapses or they go till the end. 

What is also clear by not being there that there is no way to inflate the health of Russian economy as the best its ever been.....


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601257495942529027
New package for Ukraine announced

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601202256694550528


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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601202256694550528


That's mostly the reason why Russia is so keen on taking Bakhmut. 

Without it. It would have been a harsh winter for Russian troop laying siege around the area in the East, when temperature plummet to -10 or even -20, quite a few Russian would just frozen to death in their position. They need that city to get out of the element, or they would have to most likely withdraw to pre-invasion line....

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## F-22Raptor

New weapons package

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## kingQamaR

aviator_fan said:


> Its BS when somebody is saying that Russia has lost already. Nobody loses till fat lady sings or otherwise more likely finds a negotiated settlement. That I agree with you.
> 
> What I won't disagree with you that the nation is in a much better situation. Automotive production (which is much simpler than arms production) is down 60%.
> 
> Oil power is good as long as you can continue to find new reserves. The quality of Russian oil reserves is so poor that within the next 10 years nearly 100% of them could be considered hard to recover. This will require the nation’s producers to develop techniques used in American shale fields, notably hydraulic fracturing, he said.
> 
> Those oil services firms that do the work are all western and so are the major turbine providers for the gas pipeline.
> 
> But I don't think anybody on this thread lives in Russia so no basis to say that economy collapses or they go till the end.
> 
> What is also clear by not being there that there is no way to inflate the health of Russian economy as the best its ever been.....



The Russian military have not covered themselves in glory during this conflict and Putin looks a complete fool for starting it Putin will withdraw Russian forces back to Russia's borders as a "gesture of goodwill", hell declare Victory then fall out of a window. Europe's economy will recover, Ukraine's will be rebuilt while Russia's will enter terminal decline. Russia's only got 2 things the world wants - stuff it gets out of the ground and arms. Europe's making lasting changes to replace Russian energy and won't go back to relying on Russia (US has replaced Russia as Europe's largest supplier of LNG). Putin's war has demonstrated that Russia's weapons are useless - China and India have both cancelled major arms purchase agreements. Now no one's looking to Russia for advanced weaponry. These 2 products account for 2/3rds of Russia's exports and now are history. If the CIA/MI6 set out to ruin Russia's economy, its armed forces and its stature on the world stage (which was bad to start off with) they couldn't have come close to what Putin's accomplished

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## 925boy

aviator_fan said:


> Its BS when somebody is saying that Russia has lost already. Nobody loses till fat lady sings or otherwise more likely finds a negotiated settlement. That I agree with you.
> . Automotive production (which is much simpler than arms production) is down 60%.


and? maybe thats due to sanctions interference, but other industries have rebounded, like oil adn gas sales- all that oil that EU and US didnt want? yup- China and Asia gladly bought it all up- Russia i still well funded, during a critical war- energy is at a crossroads at this time in the world, that is leverage for Russia- even US couldnt suppress it.


aviator_fan said:


> Oil power is good as long as you can continue to find new reserves.


even before the new reserves, old current ones like Sakhalin will keep pumping for years (why you think japan ditched its investment in it first after US declared sanctions on Russia, then ran back to Russia to keep its stake in the oil field...lmao!!)- and besides, you know where Russia is "finding those new reserves"? maybe in Iran? - Iran has huge fields undiscovered and unused- Russia can setup and get oil there. what now?


aviator_fan said:


> The quality of Russian oil reserves is so poor that within the next 10 years nearly 100% of them could be considered hard to recover.


thats your personal opinion, but its better to let the economics do the talking- why soooo much sales of Russian oil and gas and diesel and other hydrocarbons in the world???? Pakistan just jumped onboard Russian oil recently too- Russian oil sells, and it has demand, your point is weak.


aviator_fan said:


> But I don't think anybody on this thread lives in Russia so no basis to say that economy collapses or they go till the end.


no oil economy can be collapsed- economics.

US couldnt even collapse Venezuela bro, so wtf are you talking about? Russia is a much stronger oil and gas power in the world in the top 3! Iran's oil and gas industry is booming now, Russia is a large player, so this collapse you talk about is theory- Russia has 100s of billlions of $$ in reserves and gold and what not- US is going to go broke soon, protests probably next year- you seen US debt numbers? keep getting distracted, tahts what Newesweek and times wants you to do.


aviator_fan said:


> What is also clear by not being there that there is no way to inflate the health of Russian economy as the best its ever been.....


i didnt claim Russian economy is at the best its ever been - i'm claiming its actually quite self reliant and resilient, is backed by alot of the sht in the world that the world ACTUALLY values- oil, gas, gold, titanium, copper, coal, etc . Its economy is less reliant on fiat money (a vulnerability of the $ based systems)also. 

We are over 8bn in the world now! demand for these used up minerals is quite low in the world, sneaky UK has run out of its gas already for example, so those who hold large oil and gas reserves today will hold leverage for decades to come- US cant stop it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601234113603960834


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601191890900381696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601331980775620608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601200045734662145


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## Hassan Al-Somal

What happened to the claim that sanctions against Russia are working? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600920689384763392

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1 | Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601358013427642368


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601367079650988032


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## The SC

Interesting updates..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601307034837602305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601299720529678337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601297517836406784

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601376616893931521

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601327790955331584


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601391041176752129

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601211431193829379

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## Soldier35

Feedback on the Russian BMP-3 of the commander of the assault group of marines, reinforced with BMP-3 armored vehicles.






Published footage of the interception of Ukrainian missiles by the MLRS, the Russian Pantsir-S air defense system. It is not known which Ukrainian MLRS fired, MLRS M270 or M142 HIMARS. Flashes the moment of interception of missiles.






Footage of the impact of the Russian kamikaze drone "Lancet" in the P-18 all-round radar of Ukraine in the Kherson region. The P-18 all-round radar was put into service in 1970 and is designed to detect air targets and determine the nationality of air objects. The Ukrainian army has repeatedly upgraded the radar.






Footage of a large-scale attack by the Ukrainian army near the village of Peski on the positions of the Russian "Somalia" unit and the 11th regiment. As noted, the attack was organized quite competently. The Ukrainian army, taking advantage of the lack of Russian aviation, used 3 Mi-24 helicopters and armored vehicles. Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopters, not entering the air defense zone, carried out launches of unguided missiles from a pitch-up. Two T-64BV tanks supported the advance of the Shilka anti-aircraft gun and the BMP-2 armored vehicle with fire. After the defeat of the BMP-2, it later exploded, Ukrainian units began to retreat. Reportedly, after the retreat, the Ukrainian army lost part of its previously occupied positions.






Episode of the battle in Ukraine. On the Bakhmut direction in the Soledar area. An infantry fighting vehicle of the Ukrainian army was hit by a Russian ATGM crew. As a result of the battle, after an attempted offensive, the Ukrainian army reportedly suffered losses and retreated.

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## Viet

Russia elites are poor now. They lost villa, yachts, money.

The EU has seized their assets in Europe worth $19 billion.







Bild vergrößern
Die Jacht eines Vertrauten Putins, beschlagnahmt auf Mallorca

Foto: Francisco Ubilla / dpa

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## Viet

Putin is extremely angry. Very very angry. He accused Germany especially Angela Merkel of betrayal, of dishonesty. Merkel reveals in an interview that Germany agreed to 2014 Ukraine/Russia peace accord, just to give Ukraine more time to prepare for the war against Russia.
Had Russia invade Ukraine in 2014 Ukraine had zero chance.















Ukraine News: Putin wirft Merkel Unaufrichtigkeit vor


Putin zeigt sich enttäuscht von Merkel wegen ihrer Äußerungen zur Ukraine. Die ehemalige Kanzlerin hat sich diese Woche ausführlich zu ihrer früheren Russland-Politik geäußert.




www.sueddeutsche.de


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## BHAN85

Broccoli said:


> Russian median salary is around 1000$ and minimum is only 240$. Compare that with average Finnish salary what is over 2900€. Of course we shouldn't forget that outside few larger cities what are on same level as west (Moscow & Saint Petersburg) Russia is basically a third wold country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Wages 2022 | Minimum & Average | Take-profit.org
> 
> 
> Wages in Russia was 975.646 USD/Month in 2022. Latest statistics on minimum and average salaries in Russia. Historical data on low and high skilled wages on Take-profit.org.
> 
> 
> 
> take-profit.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finland's median monthly income surpasses €3,300
> 
> 
> The median monthly full-time salary in Finland was 3,314 euros last year, rising from 3,228 in 2020, according to Statistics Finland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yle.fi


I wonder if Finnish people living next to Russian border go to Russian gas stations, the saving is big enough.

The same with another products and supermarkets, like alcoholic beverages.

BTW food inflation increased after war and it doesnt decrease, well, things like raw wheat flour and sunflower oil decreased a little last months, but supermarkets products keep prices higher than before Ukraine war.


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## BHAN85

jhungary said:


> Mexico gas price is around $1.1 a litre. While Russia is about 0.9-1.0 per liter
> 
> The problem with gas price in the west is not because it is higher than say Mexico or Russia, but it is because of the tax involved. In Australia, the gas price today is 1.63/liter (around 1.10 per liter as well) That is after the Australian Government charge 46c per liter on gasoline product.
> 
> On the other hand, I don't know what the diesel price where you live, Diesel is more expensive than E10 fuel since 2015 where I lived, that have to do with environmental surcharge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitre.gov.au



High taxs is a way to keep the consum lower, the fact is West Europe doesnt have own fossil fuel sources enough (with the exception of Norway) to keep his living standard. States could remove fuel taxs and increase another taxs in other products, but that would increase fuel consumption.

I dont know in another EU states, but in Spain diesel always was cheaper than gasoline before Ukraine war.

Diesel is harder to manufacture with non-normal-crude-oil sources like shale oil.

energy supply problems often are hidden with ecological fake arguments.


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## aviator_fan

BHAN85 said:


> I wonder if Finnish people living next to Russian border go to Russian gas stations, the saving is big enough.
> 
> The same with another products and supermarkets, like alcoholic beverages.
> 
> BTW food inflation increased after war and it doesnt decrease, well, things like raw wheat flour and sunflower oil decreased a little last months, but supermarkets products keep prices higher than before Ukraine war.


I can guarantee you no Finnish people are thinking about Finland for this. Ultimately, food represents less than 20% of household spend in the Nordics, so a 5% jump in price means negligible change. So stop worrying about the Finnish. They will have a bit less liquor, and a bit less food. They fought the Russians in WWII so a food inflation is a a bit of sacrifice that they can deal with.


Russian's, while not under attack, have had no reluctance with a million leaving. And given the chance and finances, another million would go.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601522025872642048

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## bobo6661

Viet said:


> Putin is extremely angry. Very very angry. He accused Germany especially Angela Merkel of betrayal, of dishonesty. Merkel reveals in an interview that Germany agreed to 2014 Ukraine/Russia peace accord, just to give Ukraine more time to prepare for the war against Russia.
> Had Russia invade Ukraine in 2014 Ukraine had zero chance.
> 
> 
> View attachment 904707
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine News: Putin wirft Merkel Unaufrichtigkeit vor
> 
> 
> Putin zeigt sich enttäuscht von Merkel wegen ihrer Äußerungen zur Ukraine. Die ehemalige Kanzlerin hat sich diese Woche ausführlich zu ihrer früheren Russland-Politik geäußert.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sueddeutsche.de


Now he feels betrayed then he was saying he has no intention to annex more ukraine  Guess next day he will think of another lie


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601574508636561408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601541009648689152

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601503450512388096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601602871795273728

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601568348973633536

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601616399230590977

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601625720748662784

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## Georg

aziqbal said:


> the fact that Turkey supplies heavy weapons to Ukraine and maintains strong diplomatic ties to Russia
> 
> Make turkey the king of global diplomats
> 
> incredible by Turkey


what heavy weapons does Turkey deliver to Ukrine? None


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601574508636561408
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601541009648689152


This ”German” is certainly not honourable when he lies about the German Unification treaty.
Germany promised not to build NATO bases in Eastern Germany. There was no promise made involving other countries.
Later, in 1999, Russia signed an agreement with NATO where they stated implicitly that it was none of their business who joined NATO.
Meanwhile Russia lied to everyone about probably all treaties they signed since the Great Flood.

Here is an explantation of what a proxy war is:





Since Russia has recognized the right for all countries to join NATO if they so desire, it cannot be said by a reasonable person that the US or NATO instigated the war by accepting new members.

The US very vocably warned against the war early this year, while the Russians kept accusing them of lying, until they were proved to be the liars.

Russia wants this to be ”Proxy War” because they are having their *** handed by Ukraine and it is hurting their ego.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601665561381212160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601661406671425536

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601673509649850368


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601363616913317888

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## A.P. Richelieu

Susanna Viljanen


Following 39 people. Asked 4 questions. Wrote 11170 answers.




www.quora.com





*Is Putin a product of the Russian mentality and culture?*

Definitely. The former President of Finland, Juho Kusti Paasikivi (as President 1946–1956) described the modus operandi of the Russian society as such:

"_The immutable Russian policy is to get whatever they can with the least possible effort, and then ask for more. They never sacrifice their immediate benefits for future goals. They never take into account what has been said, but what has been done. They try to exact a high price for anything that they understand they have to do in any case. They are immune to ethical, humanitarian and abstract juridical arguments, being affected only by practical and realistic points of view."_

We have a saying in Finland: “Scrath a Russian, reveal a Mongol”. The Russianness - the Russian core value set (or rather lack of it) and the idea of Russian socity is product of the Mongol Yoke - the 250 years of slavery under the Golden Horde 1237 to 1480.

No matter what the Russians themselves say about it, the Mongol Yoke was a disastrous period to the Russian society, Russian culture, Russian state apparatus and Russian mentality. This era saw Russia departing its Scandinavian and Norse roots and becoming a Central Asian society.

Do not get it wrong. The Mongols were brutal, ruthless and cruel rulers without absolutely any interest of the welfare of their subjects. They never saw their domain as a state - a thing to be protected, developed and grown rich - but rather a grounds for exctraction of riches to the ruling class. A poem of the era describes the brutal Mongol taxation:

_Hundred roubles he took from a prince
fifty from a boyar
one from a peasant
Who couldn’t pay, he took his son
who hadn’t a son, he took his wife
who had no wife, he took himself_

One rouble equalled 1/8th of a Russian pound of silver. Inability to pay the taxes meant being taken as a slave by the Mongols. The Mongols retaliated any dissence with wanton brutally. As result, there never were any rebellions against the Mongol rule until 1378.

The only way to survive such rule was to ditch any moral compass and ethical backbone and assume moral relativity - the concept that there is no right and no wrong, but everything depends on one’s vantage point - and a similar cruelty towards one’s subordinates and similar servility towards one’s superiors as the Mongol rulers and servants demonstrated.

The Khanate never had any vestiges of rule of law, but the word of the Khan was the law. This led to arbitrariness by the ruler and the idea that violence makes right. Laws in Russia exist only to prop the status of the powerholder and as a tool to punish any subordinates who think they have any rights.
There is only a rooster’s step from moral relativism to logical relativism: that there is no objective truth, but everything depends on who presents it. There are two words for “truth” in Russian, and three words for “lie”: “istina” means a scientific truth while “pravda” means truth as the one who insists it sees it; “lozh” means a blatant lie, “vranyo” means bullsh1tting (as a deception) and “nyepravda” as untruth. There is a constant state of greyshades between lie and truth in the Russian mind.

While the rest of the Europe assumed Feudalism and Capitalism and rule of law and restriction of the power of the ruler, Russia developed into Authoritarian Patrimonialism. This is a form of statehood which has never existed in Europe - perhaps the Ottoman Turkey is the closest thing. In Authoritarian Patrimonialism, the ruler is the supreme ruler of the land, not to be questioned by any means, he rules with force and no laws bind him, and all power springs from him. All economy is state-owned or state-controlled and there is no law-guaranteed right of ownership, but a limitless right of possession by the close circle of the rulers.
In Authoritarian Patrimonialism, the subjects are little better than worker ants. Serfdom ended in Russia de facto only in 1974, when kolkhoz peasants got a freedom to move to towns if they wished.

Russians fail game theory. They see everything as zero-sum games and they cannot understand the concept of mutual benefit. This is why Russia can never tolerate independent Baltic states - their security is off from the Russian security and their wealth is off the Russian wealth.

Russians prefer having enemies over having friends. This is a consequence of failing the game theory. Having enemies means you are feared and thus repected; having friends means you are weak and vulnerable.

Vladimir Putin is a perfect product of this kind of society. And same inverted: Russia is astonishingly immune to any attempts to reform the society, and it always returns back into Authoritarian Patrimonialism. While Nazism was a short spell of lunacy in Germany, Communism fit to the Russian idea like a nose on a human face. Communism was a perfect application of the Authoritarian Patrimonialism - the revolution changed absolutely nothing.

Yes, and whoever will replace Putin, will replace nothing. His successor will be a similar product of the similar mentality and similar culture.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601677596919726080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601661175053561857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601626358530310144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601619434270969856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601590915097059328

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601337461472657408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601340517643882496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601340609373310976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601340765552005120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601340952911568896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601341269091180546

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601341694519443457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601341973339652097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601342108149112832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601342243729977345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601342415494819841

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4 | Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601688247587205147
Russian losses now at 8,400

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601718496206782465

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## PakFactor

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Susanna Viljanen
> 
> 
> Following 39 people. Asked 4 questions. Wrote 11170 answers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.quora.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Putin a product of the Russian mentality and culture?*
> 
> Definitely. The former President of Finland, Juho Kusti Paasikivi (as President 1946–1956) described the modus operandi of the Russian society as such:
> 
> "_The immutable Russian policy is to get whatever they can with the least possible effort, and then ask for more. They never sacrifice their immediate benefits for future goals. They never take into account what has been said, but what has been done. They try to exact a high price for anything that they understand they have to do in any case. They are immune to ethical, humanitarian and abstract juridical arguments, being affected only by practical and realistic points of view."_
> 
> We have a saying in Finland: “Scrath a Russian, reveal a Mongol”. The Russianness - the Russian core value set (or rather lack of it) and the idea of Russian socity is product of the Mongol Yoke - the 250 years of slavery under the Golden Horde 1237 to 1480.
> 
> No matter what the Russians themselves say about it, the Mongol Yoke was a disastrous period to the Russian society, Russian culture, Russian state apparatus and Russian mentality. This era saw Russia departing its Scandinavian and Norse roots and becoming a Central Asian society.
> 
> Do not get it wrong. The Mongols were brutal, ruthless and cruel rulers without absolutely any interest of the welfare of their subjects. They never saw their domain as a state - a thing to be protected, developed and grown rich - but rather a grounds for exctraction of riches to the ruling class. A poem of the era describes the brutal Mongol taxation:
> 
> _Hundred roubles he took from a prince
> fifty from a boyar
> one from a peasant
> Who couldn’t pay, he took his son
> who hadn’t a son, he took his wife
> who had no wife, he took himself_
> 
> One rouble equalled 1/8th of a Russian pound of silver. Inability to pay the taxes meant being taken as a slave by the Mongols. The Mongols retaliated any dissence with wanton brutally. As result, there never were any rebellions against the Mongol rule until 1378.
> 
> The only way to survive such rule was to ditch any moral compass and ethical backbone and assume moral relativity - the concept that there is no right and no wrong, but everything depends on one’s vantage point - and a similar cruelty towards one’s subordinates and similar servility towards one’s superiors as the Mongol rulers and servants demonstrated.
> 
> The Khanate never had any vestiges of rule of law, but the word of the Khan was the law. This led to arbitrariness by the ruler and the idea that violence makes right. Laws in Russia exist only to prop the status of the powerholder and as a tool to punish any subordinates who think they have any rights.
> There is only a rooster’s step from moral relativism to logical relativism: that there is no objective truth, but everything depends on who presents it. There are two words for “truth” in Russian, and three words for “lie”: “istina” means a scientific truth while “pravda” means truth as the one who insists it sees it; “lozh” means a blatant lie, “vranyo” means bullsh1tting (as a deception) and “nyepravda” as untruth. There is a constant state of greyshades between lie and truth in the Russian mind.
> 
> While the rest of the Europe assumed Feudalism and Capitalism and rule of law and restriction of the power of the ruler, Russia developed into Authoritarian Patrimonialism. This is a form of statehood which has never existed in Europe - perhaps the Ottoman Turkey is the closest thing. In Authoritarian Patrimonialism, the ruler is the supreme ruler of the land, not to be questioned by any means, he rules with force and no laws bind him, and all power springs from him. All economy is state-owned or state-controlled and there is no law-guaranteed right of ownership, but a limitless right of possession by the close circle of the rulers.
> In Authoritarian Patrimonialism, the subjects are little better than worker ants. Serfdom ended in Russia de facto only in 1974, when kolkhoz peasants got a freedom to move to towns if they wished.
> 
> Russians fail game theory. They see everything as zero-sum games and they cannot understand the concept of mutual benefit. This is why Russia can never tolerate independent Baltic states - their security is off from the Russian security and their wealth is off the Russian wealth.
> 
> Russians prefer having enemies over having friends. This is a consequence of failing the game theory. Having enemies means you are feared and thus repected; having friends means you are weak and vulnerable.
> 
> Vladimir Putin is a perfect product of this kind of society. And same inverted: Russia is astonishingly immune to any attempts to reform the society, and it always returns back into Authoritarian Patrimonialism. While Nazism was a short spell of lunacy in Germany, Communism fit to the Russian idea like a nose on a human face. Communism was a perfect application of the Authoritarian Patrimonialism - the revolution changed absolutely nothing.
> 
> Yes, and whoever will replace Putin, will replace nothing. His successor will be a similar product of the similar mentality and similar culture.



Very good read. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## The SC




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601710113462812672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601676369955803137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601587163472490496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601652794708348928

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601334408283566082

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601332798928756736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601298792497967104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601288218237841409


----------



## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601574508636561408


Dude, did you just figure that out??

It's is of course a proxy war from the West, or you think they really care whether or not Ukraine align to the West? A country with 200 billion GDP pre-war? I said that time and again, the sitaution in Ukraine is created so Sweden and Finland would join NATO. And Russia is stupid enough to help NATO along. This is of course a proxy war. 

The fact remained; Russia is losing this proxy war.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> That's mostly the reason why Russia is so keen on taking Bakhmut.
> 
> Without it. It would have been a harsh winter for Russian troop laying siege around the area in the East, when temperature plummet to -10 or even -20, quite a few Russian would just frozen to death in their position. They need that city to get out of the element, or they would have to most likely withdraw to pre-invasion line....


Think another month or so?



jhungary said:


> Dude, did you just figure that out??
> 
> It's is of course a proxy war from the West, or you think they really care whether or not Ukraine align to the West? A country with 200 billion GDP pre-war? I said that time and again, the sitaution in Ukraine is created so Sweden and Finland would join NATO. And Russia is stupid enough to help NATO along. This is of course a proxy war.
> 
> The fact remained; Russia is losing this proxy war.


Iran using Russia in this proxy war.


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## khansaheeb

Seems like Ukraine needs more help from NATO who are ready to intervene. Status Quo is not in NATO's interest.

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## khansaheeb

The love / Hate triangle which will lead to war:-

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## Viet

Angela Merkel: “Also, if we had responded more quickly to Russia aggression.”

At least, she admitted the strategic mistake.


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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Think another month or so?
> 
> 
> Iran using Russia in this proxy war.


Iran is the joker. Russia urgently needs Iran military. Iran drones, tactical missiles, ballistic missiles. Putin wants to take Bachmut at all costs. He wants to take the city with no strategic value just to make an example. since months the Wagners hooligans running towards Ukraine artillery, they die like flies.


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## Super Falcon

Russian made liotering munitions doing wonders for Russia destroying weapons supplied be west including radars

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## Beny Karachun

Super Falcon said:


> Russian made liotering munitions doing wonders for Russia destroying weapons supplied be west including radars


They seem very unreliable and hard to control. 1/3-1/2 of the times they miss the target.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Susanna Viljanen


Following 39 people. Asked 4 questions. Wrote 11170 answers.




www.quora.com






*If Putin loses the war with Ukraine, is it possible that Russia will break into several different nations?*
It is not only possible, but also likely.
The reason is that deep down in economy Russia is a third world country. The Russian economy is based on extraction of existing resources - oil, natural gas, ores, energy - and it has little to speak about manufacturing industry beyond weapons and dockyards.
Russia is an imperium - consisting of the master people (ethnic Russians) and subjugated minorities. It has been that way ever since the Mongol era. Its massive size is incredibly difficult and expensive to upkeep, and many of the subjugated minority peoples are Islamic and more than eager to rebel at the first opportunity. Russia lives on a shoestring budget.
Russia’s system of government is Authoritarian Patrimonialism. This system is almost unknown in Europe, but common in Asia. Russia has never been feudal, Capitalist nor a civil society. In Patrimonialism, the whole state is the property of the ruler (patrimonium) and all power personifies on him and emanates from him. The ruler is above the laws and his word is the law. There is no distinction between the public and private domains. These regimes are autocratic and/or oligarchic, and typically ruled by a clique of cronies. The very idea of Patrimonialism is to exclude the lower, middle and upper classes from any kind of power or influence. The leaders of these countries typically enjoy absolute personal power. Usually, the armies of these countries are loyal to the leader, not the nation. This is an important feature. Russian armies have always been hordes of peasants, conscripts or bandits kept in discipline with расстрел and driven ahead by the ruler’s nagaika. As a counterpoise to their miserable state of existence they have been given the licence to murder, rape and loot at will. No matter how much the Russians tout about the Great Patriotic War 1941–45, it was a Great Stalinist War.
You really cannot understand Russia without understanding Patrimonialism. It is almost needless to say that a Patrimonialism leads into a thoroughly corrupt croniocracy - the corruption is not a fault in it, but its upkeeping power. The only way to exclude the ambitious members of the aristocracy, plutocracy and intelligentsiya from usurping the power are state terror and purchasing the loyalty of the members of the inner circle by giving them a licence to extract and loot the national property and enrich themselves as long as they do not steal too much. The oligarchs are not a bug in the Russian system, they are its essential feature.




This is how the game goes in Russia. Everything emanates from the strongman - Khan, Czar, Emperor Premier, President, it really does not matter how he is called. His power is not based on legitimacy, but strongmanship. His inner circle does NOT consist of independent aristocrats, plutocrats or intellectuals risen to their power by merit, inheritance or popularity, but they are his personal buddies and hence dependent of him. The strongman keeps his buddies content by corruption and rent-seeking - it is an essential part of this game. Should some of his buddies go too ambitious, there will immediately be repercusions and anti-corruption campaign. The result is that no rule of law and no civil society can prevail and all public goods (rights, liberties, rule of law, infrastructure etc) are underproided. The result is Russia is far poorer than what its educational level and average IQ would let understand.
Russian people are basically all either peasants or stooges. A “peasant” is someone who is downtrodden, oppressed and exploited and knows his situation. A “stooge” is someone with an ambition to one day to become a downtrodder, oppressor or exploiter himself. Serfdom was finally abolished in Russia de facto only in 1974, when kolkhoz peasants got the freedom to move away from the kolkhoz to the towns if they desired. The Russians have no judicial safety nor civil freedoms as we understand them, including the safety of ownership. The result is that there are very few private businesses in Russia, and they almost all are insignificant small businesses. Anything you have can be robbed or confiscated from you by the rulers and his stooges or by the mafia at will.
The result is that the ordinary Russians are poor as church mice and their country is one of low technology. This was pointed out by Finns already during the 19th century. And this is well demonstrated by the sorry state of Russian industry and their consumer products, especially automobiles. And this is demonstrated by the Russian soldiers looting anything with any kind of technology - clocks, watches, household appliances, whiteware - even the toilet seats. They simply do not exist in Russia outside the large cities. The Russian countryside still lives in the same conditions as they did in the 19th century.
There has been no middle class in Russia outside the middleman minorities, such as the Germans, Jews, Armenians, Latvians or Finns. All middle class entrepreneurship in Russia has always been foreign owned. It is no secret why there are so many great goldsmithing studios in Helsinki - they have been originally existed in St. Petersburg before 1918. The result is simple. Middleman minorities are far safer for the ruler to keep in discipline than to let your own ethnicity to rise from squalor and gain any economic or intellectual power. This is why almost all scientists, artists and businessmen in Russia have always been Jews, Germans or Latvians.
The idea of Russia is to expand territorially and all the way to the seas. The very idea of Russia is blatant Imperialism, subjugation of its neighbouring nations and rule with violence and terror. The Russians do not understand the concept of “peace”; they only have “high intensity war” and “low intensity war”. For Russia, peace is nothing but an intermediary period on preparing for a new high intensity war and committing special operations and dirty tricks (assassinations, indoctrination, propaganda, influencing) on its neighbours in order to weaken them for a high intensity military operation. The result is that Russia is hated by all its neighbours except Finland and Bulgaria, which relate to it with neutrality.
The Authoritarian Patrimonialism in Russia is astonishingly immune to all attempts to reform or to renew it. No matter if it is called Czarism, Communism or Putinism, the system itself is always the same Authoritarian Patrimonialism. Russia simply cannot be reformed - each time there happens a revolution and the old system collapses, the state apparatus simply reassembles itself and returns back into its original form under a new name. It has attained its memetic climax in the cultural evolution and won’t evolve any further - just think of the jellyfish, which attained their perfection already in the Ediacaran era 600 million years ago and haven’t evolved ever since.
Okay. When you connect the dots and add in the fact that the Russian special military operation in Ukraine has gone terribly pear-shaped, the result should be clear to anyone.
Russia is well on its way to bankruptcy. It simply has no funds to upkeep itself. It can continue the war in Ukraine for next summer, but not much beyond. It is as if it was playing Civilization and the enemies would not budge - the only way to raise new troops is by demolishing the stuff you have.
But sooner or later a collapse will ensue. It can be either a bankruptcy, a military catastrophe or an inside coup. The result will be pretty much the whole Empire imploding into itself.
What now ensues is svoboda. The word “svoboda” is often translated as “freedom”, but it is closer to “anarchy”. It is a state of affairs where there are no institutions or powers able to sanction from any transgressions or to impose any punitive measures. This svoboda is often welcomed as liberty from an oppressive regime, but like any anarchy, it is an extremely undesirable thing. It is usually followed by smuta, chaos, such as in the 1990s after the collapse of the USSR.
After the smuta, normally a strongman will ensue, set up a hard-handed rule, and little by little the state reverts back into what it was - Authoritarian Patrimonialism.
But revolutions are expensive business. Money, nervus rerum, speaks again. Russia has managed to fritter itself away - what the oligarchs have not stolen, has been invested into weapons or other badly returning assets - and the whole world refuses to purchase Russian oil and energy. When the inevitable collapse one day will happen, there will be no money left to stitch the giant state back together.
The result will inevitably be disintegration. The first to rebel will be the Islamic nations in South, but also the Far East has cahoots with China and Mongolia. The Russian nation itself is ethnically very uniform and there are very little differences in Russian dialects, but it is perfectly possible that strongmen, mafia bosses and warlords will arise from the ranks of the Oligarchs and found their own petty statelets. Some territories may even attempt to join the neighbouring countries.
So the answer is “yes”.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Think another month or so?
> 
> 
> Iran using Russia in this proxy war.


probably closer to Christmas.....

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## Vergennes



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## Viet

Russia will spend $143 billion for military and security next year. 30 percent of total gov budget. That’s too little if the war continues next year. Should the oil price crash as expected, China buys less, then good luck.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601834444284903424


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## Beny Karachun

Viet said:


> Russia will spend $143 billion for military and security next year. 30 percent of total gov budget. That’s too little if the war continues next year. Should the oil price crash as expected, China buys less, then good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601834444284903424


Do they call it a war yet or is it still a special operation, that required them to double their defense budget?


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## Viet

Beny Karachun said:


> Do they call it a war yet or is it still a special operation, that required them to double their defense budget?


Still special military ops shit. Calling war as war is a serious offense to Russia army and will carry a prison term of 15y in Russia. Russia army is considered as God. They are immune, they can go on killing, raping. Any critics is considered as blasphemy.

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601718496206782465



Those russian should be happy they did not get "double tapped" by HIMARs ..


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## Akritas

*To understand how hypocritical and liars Putin's Russians are. *
Kherson is supposed to be "Russian" because the people voted to join Russia. But due to Russian defeats, Russia retreated, Kherson was liberated, and thousands of residents celebrated. 

Nevertheless.... for two weeks now, Kherson has been leveled by Russia, Mariupol recalls, a*pparently the Russian invaders are punishing its inhabitants*.









Χερσώνα: Μαιευτήριο, καφέ και κτίριο κατοικιών μεταξύ των στόχων των ρωσικών βομβαρδισμών - Δύο νεκροί | OnAlert


Πριν από την αναδίπλωσή τους τον Νοέμβριο, οι ρωσικές δυνάμεις κατέστρεψαν τις βασικές υποδομές κοινωφελών υπηρεσιών στη Χερσώνα και έκτοτε την έχουν βομβαρδίσει πολλές φορές.




www.onalert.gr

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## Ali_Baba

__





Loading…






ukranews.com





*>> The Americans now will not stop Ukraine from striking more targets in mainland Russia following Russian attacks on civilian infrastrcture ... Expect things to get more roasty for the Russians.. Russia's attacks on Ukranian civilian infra has opened up more types of weapons deliveres to Ukraine... *



> The Pentagon gave tacit consent to Ukraine's long-range strikes against targets on Russian territory after President Putin's numerous missile strikes against critical infrastructure in Kyiv. The British publication The Times writes about this with reference to sources from the U.S. Department of Defense.​
> The publication notes that since the Russian Federation began regular attacks against the civilian population of Ukraine in October, the Pentagon has revised its assessment of the threat of war in Ukraine. It now includes new considerations about whether arms supplies to Kyiv could lead to a military confrontation between Russia and NATO. Now Washington is more inclined to supply Kyiv with longer-range weapons, the publication writes.
> 
> "We still use the same escalation calculations, but the fear of escalation has changed from the very beginning. Now everything is different. This is because the calculations of the war have changed due to the suffering and brutality that the Ukrainians are experiencing at the hands of the Russians," a source in the defense authority of the United States told the publication.
> 
> Washington is now less concerned that new strikes with long-range weapons on Russian territory could lead to a dramatic escalation. So far, all of Moscow's retaliatory strikes have been associated with conventional missile strikes on civilian targets.
> 
> Previously, the Pentagon was afraid of Ukraine's attacks against Russia, because it was afraid that the Kremlin would respond either with tactical nuclear weapons or strike neighboring NATO countries.
> 
> At the same time, Washington does not want it to be seen that Kyiv has publicly received a "green light" for attacks on Russian territory. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced Washington's position this week. He said that "we did not encourage and did not allow Ukrainians to strike inside Russia."
> 
> However, a source in the U.S. Department of Defense noted: "We are not telling Kyiv: 'Don't strike at the Russians (in Russia or Crimea. - Ed.).” We cannot tell them what to do. They decide for themselves how to use their weapons. But when they use weapons supplied by us, the only thing we insist on is that the Ukrainian military adhere to the international laws of war and the Geneva Conventions," said the interlocutor of the publication.
> 
> "These are the only restrictions, but they include the absence of attacks on Russian families and murders. As far as we understand, Ukraine complies with these requirements," the interlocutor added.
> 
> If the U.S. decides to supply Ukraine with longer-range weapons that can strike deep into Russian territory, fears of a possible escalation could rise sharply. *However, Pentagon officials have made it clear that Kyiv's request for longer-range American weapons, including missiles and fighter-bombers that can be used for even more effective strikes inside Russia or occupied Crimea, is being seriously considered.
> 
> "Nothing is excluded," said a senior official of the U.S. Department of Defense.*

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601932277390675968

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## BHAN85

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601574508636561408
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601541009648689152


Kim is very ANTI-USA since USA seized Megaupload in January 2012. Moreover he can not travel to some countries because is afraid of USA arrest him, a hard thing when you are rich.

Anyway, he sometimes has good points.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601962570218340352

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601957647695183878

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601945082982268929

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601966580769951744

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601933834588770308


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## Viet

Why worthless sacrifice?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601912150032896000


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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601966580769951744




Russians are still making the same basic mistakes they were in February

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> Dude, did you just figure that out??
> 
> It's is of course a proxy war from the West, or you think they really care whether or not Ukraine align to the West? A country with 200 billion GDP pre-war? I said that time and again, the sitaution in Ukraine is created so Sweden and Finland would join NATO. And Russia is stupid enough to help NATO along. This is of course a proxy war.
> 
> The fact remained; Russia is losing this proxy war.




The entire EU is facing a shortage of energy this winter and there are endless demonstrations throughout the whole of the EU. Yet you consider this war a loss for Russia when they killed over 130,000 cannon fodder Ukrainian troops and wounded over 300,000 Ukrainian troops? 

To the Russians, this is a war to defend the Russian-speaking communities in Donbas and Southern Ukraine while , at the same time, bringing Ukraine and the whole of the EU to its knees. If anything, Russians are carrying out a grinding war that is fracturing the whole EU and Western alliance.

Stop chatting sh-t as usual.


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## merzifonlu

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601718496206782465


According to a speculation based on missile remnants, TRLG-230 was used in that attack, not HIMARS.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601816172688969729

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601988903837261828

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601919602019164161

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601919602019164161



copium

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The entire EU is facing a shortage of energy this winter and there are endless demonstrations throughout the whole of the EU. Yet you consider this war a loss for Russia when they killed over 130,000 cannon fodder Ukrainian troops and wounded over 300,000 Ukrainian troops?
> 
> To the Russians, this is a war to defend the Russian-speaking communities in Donbas and Southern Ukraine while , at the same time, bringing Ukraine and the whole of the EU to its knees. If anything, Russians are carrying out a grinding war that is fracturing the whole EU and Western alliance.
> 
> Stop chatting sh-t as usual.


lol, no one is demonstrating in EU, and they are already in 1 and a half month into Winter, there are no "Energy Shortage" issue, how many people in the EU died because they don't have access to gas and energy? Stop taking Russian propaganda.

On the other hand, had you asked the "Russian Speaking" Ukrainian they wanted to be saved by Russia? I personally know a few Russian Speaking Ukrainian in Donetsk who is as Pro-Russia as they come, guess which uniform they are wearing now?

Yes, stop talking shit as usual, please, Russia is fucked in this war, I mean, it gets so low they have to buy weapon from Iran in order to survive the war, do you even know how low you have to go to buy weapon from pariah state like Iran and North Korea? Even two bits African nation like Somalia wouldn't do, and you should have known better. It is not a good thing to have Russia grinded down to *THAT* level.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Russia will spend $143 billion for military and security next year. 30 percent of total gov budget. That’s too little if the war continues next year. Should the oil price crash as expected, China buys less, then good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601834444284903424


Most consensus is that Russia will run out of their treasure in June if they cannot be replenished properly. Then they will have to issue bond or loan to get military equipment replenished. 

There is a theory floating around since Russia is getting those Iranian drones, the so called "Alternative" theory as to why Russia do not buy anything from more proper vendor from China or India or even more proper African nation (like Egypt and so on) That theory is the Russian simply cannot afford them even if they were offered.

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## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> lol, no one is demonstrating in EU, and they are already in 1 and a half month into Winter, there are no "Energy Shortage" issue, how many people in the EU died because they don't have access to gas and energy? Stop taking Russian propaganda.
> 
> On the other hand, had you asked the "Russian Speaking" Ukrainian they wanted to be saved by Russia? I personally know a few Russian Speaking Ukrainian in Donetsk who is as Pro-Russia as they come, guess which uniform they are wearing now?
> 
> Yes, stop talking shit as usual, please, Russia is fucked in this war, I mean, it gets so low they have to buy weapon from Iran in order to survive the war, do you even know how low you have to go to buy weapon from pariah state like Iran and North Korea? Even two bits African nation like Somalia wouldn't do, and you should have known better. It is not a good thing to have Russia grinded down to *THAT* level.



Russians will make fun of "Europeans freezing to death" while actually freezing to death in Donbass trenches.

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602013769311588352

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Russians will make fun of "Europeans freezing to death" while actually freezing to death in Donbass trenches.


Well, yes......

Considering the Russian trenches are really like they were back in WW1, it's not heated, it was not irrigated, it's literally just a trench, it's going to kill a lot of Russian who HAD to stay there to defend their gain.

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## BHAN85

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The entire EU is facing a shortage of energy this winter and there are endless demonstrations throughout the whole of the EU. Yet you consider this war a loss for Russia when they killed over 130,000 cannon fodder Ukrainian troops and wounded over 300,000 Ukrainian troops?
> 
> To the Russians, this is a war to defend the Russian-speaking communities in Donbas and Southern Ukraine while , at the same time, bringing Ukraine and the whole of the EU to its knees. If anything, Russians are carrying out a grinding war that is fracturing the whole EU and Western alliance.
> 
> Stop chatting sh-t as usual.


If this war damage to someone in the EU, it's to the poor low income people.

Rich elite doesnt give a fk.

There is no endless demonstrations, I assure you from Spain.

And it's not fracturing anything, I think NATO was more fractured before war than after.

A war next to your border is a failure, even if you win.

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The entire EU is facing a shortage of energy this winter and there are endless demonstrations throughout the whole of the EU. Yet you consider this war a loss for Russia when they killed over 130,000 cannon fodder Ukrainian troops and wounded over 300,000 Ukrainian troops?
> 
> To the Russians, this is a war to defend the Russian-speaking communities in Donbas and Southern Ukraine while , at the same time, bringing Ukraine and the whole of the EU to its knees. If anything, Russians are carrying out a grinding war that is fracturing the whole EU and Western alliance.
> 
> Stop chatting sh-t as usual.


1. These demonstrations are not endless. A few 100 people getting together in 4 towns is not endless demonstrations. 

2. There were bigger and more frequent demonstrations against vaccine requirements, and eventually everybody went along. 

Europe has been there done that. Seriously, stop believing Putin's Bots. They shiver when a 100 people protest in the Red Square. European Governments have more balls to face their population

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The entire EU is facing a shortage of energy this winter and there are endless demonstrations throughout the whole of the EU.



Endless demonstrations of a few hundred men here and there? 

There is only minor dissent, energy stocks are at 90% with oil and gas prices falling/stabilizing.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Yet you consider this war a loss for Russia when they killed over 130,000 cannon fodder Ukrainian troops and wounded over 300,000 Ukrainian troops?


Russia has lost the same. 
Against a brother nation formerly firm in soviet block…
And now their initial gains are being rolled back.

So yeah….


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> To the Russians, this is a war to defend the Russian-speaking communities in Donbas and Southern Ukraine while ,


Oh thats why they treated those areas and people so shit…tough love. 
Please stop your “save the donbass” lies.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> at the same time, bringing Ukraine and the whole of the EU to its knees.


Russian economy is contracting more then EU…and EU were russias former customers for gas and oil….soon to be no longer. 

Ukraine in meantime shows no sign of “falling to its knees” and oublic support in Eu for ukraine still remains in majority as well. Now well into winter. 



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If anything, Russians are carrying out a grinding war that is fracturing the whole EU and Western alliance.


Russia is grinding itself apart. 

Nato is more united, larger, stronger then ever. 
Ukraine hates russia now, forever out of their control. 

Its a shitshow of a 3 day operation that your trying to sell as fresh roses hahahahaa


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Stop chatting sh-t as usual.


Just go back to copy pasting russian propaganda. Everything besides that is too intellectual for you.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602039957924810754

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602044594421653505

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## Ali_Baba

'Hundreds of Russians dead' after 10 explosions rip through barracks in occupied Melitopol​








'Hundreds of Russians dead' after 10 explosions rip through barracks


Vladimir Putin was sent reeling after Ukrainian forces attacked Russian-occupied cities overnight in a series of strikes in the eastern regions.




www.express.co.uk





>> Hundreds !!!!!!


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## The SC

The Russians are attacking along the entire frontline and achieving some success..

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## jhungary

If Russia is smart, they should have picked up the clue from Ukraine by now, they are doing what they are doing in Kupiansk, Kherson, Kharkiv (a lot of places started with K) to Melitopol right now, the Ukrainian had moved another 2 Brigade in the Area, they are setting a condition for another counteroffensive.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602069550681526272
It seems another bunch of Wagnerites got himarsed tonight.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602077621692555264

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## Hassan Al-Somal

aviator_fan said:


> 1. These demonstrations are not endless. A few 100 people getting together in 4 towns is not endless demonstrations.
> 
> 2. There were bigger and more frequent demonstrations against vaccine requirements, and eventually everybody went along.
> 
> Europe has been there done that. Seriously, stop believing Putin's Bots. They shiver when a 100 people protest in the Red Square. European Governments have more balls to face their population



The mainstream news outlets in the West are corroborating with the the fact that EU economies are in trouble because of the war in Ukraine and the sanctions they put on Russians that backfired on them. 

👇









Europe accuses US of profiting from war


EU officials attack Joe Biden over sky-high gas prices, weapons sales and trade as Vladimir Putin’s war threatens to destroy Western unity.




www.politico.eu

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601921520871284738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602002445055442946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602001689292275717

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Daily Telegraph spitting facts on Bakhmut and how Ukrainian forces are getting obliterated in this front. 








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602066923478568961

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602063763473334273

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: The bodies of mercenaries fighting on the side of Ukraine lying in the trenches after they were destroyed by Russia's 42nd division in the Donestk frontline GRAPHIC





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602034983840804865

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602044762974035971

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602044770121125890

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602070202736381954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602070205760507904

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Most consensus is that Russia will run out of their treasure in June if they cannot be replenished properly. Then they will have to issue bond or loan to get military equipment replenished.
> 
> There is a theory floating around since Russia is getting those Iranian drones, the so called "Alternative" theory as to why Russia do not buy anything from more proper vendor from China or India or even more proper African nation (like Egypt and so on) That theory is the Russian simply cannot afford them even if they were offered.


Putin thought it would be a 3 day war. Turns out that a war of attrition. That will end very ugly. Both Russia and Ukraine suffer badly, 100k dead, 300k wounded for each side. This winter war would cost more lives. Ukraine has no other option than fighting until the bitter end. The question is how long can Russia afford it?

As for China I think Chinese have the power they will change this war entirely if they jump in. Or Xi Jinping can tell to Putin: hey stupid spy, you stop it now or we don’t buy your oil, then you have no dollar to import toilet paper. the war will be over tomorrow.


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602063763473334273


That’s very normal, what else do you expect? We in EU are in peace time. Just a little reserve, there is no large ammo stocks. Ukraine artillery fires in a week more shells than the entire UK stock pile.
Putin army has more ammo. He hides much of reserves in Ural. Too far away, out of range of Ukraine long range missiles.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602212942618959875

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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> no I point to them that an eye for an eye and an ear for an ear , they can have fun with the dishes they served others .
> ok or not ok is not the case here , the case is did they care that their wars in last century resulted in tens of millions of middle eastern become refuge and homeless ? if they don't care why I must care ?
> half of them slaved behind the iron curtain , another half slaves on the other side of the curtain , how you explain the practices and policies that this guy implement in the so called cradle of freedom in those era . so don't tell me USA and Europe were holier than Russians and Chinese






You miss the point , it is not about this or that nation , but about humanity as a whole.

Europe was the scene of some of the worst battles in human history. Yet in the last 50 years they managed to solve that , live together and prosper.

Instead we are now dragged back a 100 years ago , all cause one person decided to play Napoleon Bonaparte.

Yet you somehow think it is justified because of some other sh*t , that happened in some other place ?

And the Ukrainians should pay the price in blood , because you have some animosity to the west ?

You know my people has more than a score with Ukraine , some of the most brutal guards in the concentration camps during WW2 , where in fact Ukrainians.

But even I , do not think , that this Generation of Ukrainians should pay the price for stuff that happened a generation ago.


~

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## Ali_Baba

Second Russian shopping mall is destroyed by mystery fire


The StroyPark Mall in Balashikha, to the east of Moscow, was filmed in flames early Monday morning after a fire broke out inside a shop selling construction supplies, local officials said.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602063763473334273


Well lets not act like Europe gave away their airforce/tanks/navy/ballistic rockets….

On artillery ammo/air defence/javelins etc they are depleting….but what can you expect from the EU which was in complete “peacetime” mode? With defence budget at 1%. Looking for trade and energy from russia….

Now thanks to Putins misadventure in ukraine…budgets are doubling and tripling. And europe will learn to build up an “arsenal of democracy” reserve.

Russia in meantime is burning well into soviet stocks…and will cease to be a long term threat.

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## Beny Karachun

Viet said:


> As for China I think Chinese have the power they will change this war entirely if they jump in. Or Xi Jinping can tell to Putin: hey stupid spy, you stop it now or we don’t buy your oil, then you have no dollar to import toilet paper. the war will be over tomorrow.


If they jump in US and NATO would start giving the Ukrainians ATACAMS and various cruise missiles to hit aircraft and logistic centers inside Russia.


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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Europe was the scene of some of the worst battles in human history. Yet in the last 50 years they managed to solve that , live together and prosper.


they actually didn't did that , they just made an imitation of that ,but what happened in Yugoslavia , the Cold Wars, Macedonia , , the wars that was fought in Vietnam and Korea all was western Fight , what happened in Africa, south and central America were all planned in Europe and North America capitals .
they western countries were again at their centuries old game that started when pope Julious II divided the world between Spain and Portuguese in Treaty of Tordesillas . keeps war out of Europe , fight it in other lands .
this war is just spillover of the dirt Europe hide under the rug for years


sammuel said:


> Instead we are now dragged back a 100 years ago , all cause one person decided to play Napoleon Bonaparte.


Europe needed to be remind of the harshness of the war they have forgotten it , they taught its good as long as it happen to others . Europe and USA companies were lords of war , inciting war around the word and make profit by selling weapon to both side of the war. now they can do it in Europe 
.


sammuel said:


> Yet you somehow think it is justified because of some other sh*t , that happened in some other place ?


shit didn't happened by itself some people fanned it, guess who


sammuel said:


> You know my people has more than a score with Ukraine , some of the most brutal guards in the concentration camps during WW2 , where in fact Ukrainians.
> 
> But even I , do not think , that this Generation of Ukrainians should pay the price for stuff that happened a generation ago.


this generation of Ukrainian are still at what their forefathers did.



ZeGerman said:


> Well lets not act like Europe gave away their airforce/tanks/navy/ballistic rockets….
> 
> On artillery ammo/air defence/javelins etc they are depleting….but what can you expect from the EU which was in complete “peacetime” mode? With defence budget at 1%. Looking for trade and energy from russia….
> 
> Now thanks to Putins misadventure in ukraine…budgets are doubling and tripling. And europe will learn to build up an “arsenal of democracy” reserve.
> 
> Russia in meantime is burning well into soviet stocks…and will cease to be a long term threat.


and usa will be happy , they for years were complaining that europe rely too much on overall military power of NATO and abandoned its military



ZeGerman said:


> Well lets not act like Europe gave away their airforce/tanks/navy/ballistic rockets….
> 
> On artillery ammo/air defence/javelins etc they are depleting….but what can you expect from the EU which was in complete “peacetime” mode? With defence budget at 1%. Looking for trade and energy from russia….
> 
> Now thanks to Putins misadventure in ukraine…budgets are doubling and tripling. And europe will learn to build up an “arsenal of democracy” reserve.
> 
> Russia in meantime is burning well into soviet stocks…and will cease to be a long term threat.


and usa will be happy , they for years were complaining that europe rely too much on overall military power of NATO and abandoned its military

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## Sineva

I`ll just leave this one here....  [the 2nd vid is the best]

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602218205166112769At the very least it does show that not all europeans are nothing more than a bunch of racist war mongering "chauncey gardners" with the mindset of a certain j borrell.😥
Some do have something of a conscience and at least a bare minimum of empathy,for all those murdered non europeans I mean.

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Well lets not act like Europe gave away their airforce/tanks/navy/ballistic rockets….
> 
> On artillery ammo/air defence/javelins etc they are depleting….but what can you expect from the EU which was in complete “peacetime” mode? With defence budget at 1%. Looking for trade and energy from russia….
> 
> Now thanks to Putins misadventure in ukraine…budgets are doubling and tripling. And europe will learn to build up an “arsenal of democracy” reserve.
> 
> Russia in meantime is burning well into soviet stocks…and will cease to be a long term threat.


I will look at it this way

EU and US can replenish their ammunition in the next 3 to 5 years under normal ramp up production, there aren't really a problem, or they will call it a "Crisis". I mean we don't use that much to fight war anyway 

On the other hand, if Russia have to buy ammunition from Iran and North Korea, then that show their capability to restock their own ammo. I mean, even our stock are dwindled, we weren't that desperate to source ammo from say "Malaysia" or "Moracco", you HAVE TO BE REALLY DESPERATE to do that.

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## Viet

Beny Karachun said:


> If they jump in US and NATO would start giving the Ukrainians ATACAMS and various cruise missiles to hit aircraft and logistic centers inside Russia.


Yes it’s fair and ok to give Ukraine everything she needs, with exception of nukes. If Putin wants to kill one million Ukrainians then it’s ok Ukraine kill one million Russians.

Putin says Russia and Ukraine share the same spiritual space so he probably means all end up in the same hell, same mass grave.

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## sammuel

ZeGerman said:


> Well lets not act like Europe gave away their airforce/tanks/navy/ballistic rockets….
> 
> On artillery ammo/air defence/javelins etc they are depleting….but what can you expect from the EU which was in complete “peacetime” mode? With defence budget at 1%. Looking for trade and energy from russia….




Europe owes Ukraine big time.

If it was not for Ukraine stopping them in Kiev, other countries in the area would soon have had something to worry about.

And who knows when Putin's appetite would have been stratified , even if after he had succeeded in taking Ukraine , the record of dictators just stopping their conquests once started is not that promising . . .

Even in 1% peace time production ,Europe can give Ukraine more. Specially since they are not really using all of this weapons.


~


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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> shit didn't happened by itself some people fanned it, guess who



Be specific , what exactly did the Ukrainians do to deserve millions of refugees , freezing in winter and who knows how many casualties ? 



Hack-Hook said:


> this generation of Ukrainian are still at what their forefathers did.



It is up to God to decide what every man deserves , who appointed you distributer of justice on this earth ?


~

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Be specific , what exactly did the Ukrainians do to deserve millions of refugees , freezing in winter and who knows how many casualties ?
> 
> 
> 
> It is up to God to decide what every man deserves , who appointed you distributer of justice on this earth ?
> 
> 
> ~


I don't distribute the judgement , did I participate in the special operation  no i only 

what exactly they did to deserve that , well the exact crime of Libyan, Sudanese , Syrian , Afghans , Iraqis and Palestinian and people of central Africa , what was their crime to deserve millions of refugees

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602095606390226944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602127081181257728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602214402119409664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602241294331711488

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> I will look at it this way
> 
> EU and US can replenish their ammunition in the next 3 to 5 years under normal ramp up production, there aren't really a problem, or they will call it a "Crisis". I mean we don't use that much to fight war anyway
> 
> On the other hand, if Russia have to buy ammunition from Iran and North Korea, then that show their capability to restock their own ammo. I mean, even our stock are dwindled, we weren't that desperate to source ammo from say "Malaysia" or "Moracco", you HAVE TO BE REALLY DESPERATE to do that.


you are only at war by proxy and you are how many country ? on other hand Russia is at war and it is only one country , now add the military budget of the countries who support Ukraine and compared that with Russia and that give you a more clear view .
so if your stocks reduce to critical level ,that's sign of well soon you go get ammo from Morocco and Malaysia . you only had higher stock than russia so you could postpone it but the amount of ammunition that is being used in ukraine is on another level and i don't think previously anybody have ever used such volume of fire power

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602264644248371202

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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> I will look at it this way
> 
> EU and US can replenish their ammunition in the next 3 to 5 years under normal ramp up production, there aren't really a problem, or they will call it a "Crisis". I mean we don't use that much to fight war anyway
> 
> On the other hand, if Russia have to buy ammunition from Iran and North Korea, then that show their capability to restock their own ammo. I mean, even our stock are dwindled, we weren't that desperate to source ammo from say "Malaysia" or "Moracco", you HAVE TO BE REALLY DESPERATE to do that.



Agree -

Additionally - Russia is one country and therefore has 1 set of manufacturing supply lines to make war replacements - NATO is 30 odd countries - each with their own industrial base and defence manufacturing infrastructure...

NATO replacements will outgrow what Russia can achieve. All Russia is surviving on is soviet era stocks and now iran and north korea ...

This war has been an eye opener and people can be assured - those eyes have been opened.

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## sammuel

~



Hack-Hook said:


> what exactly they did to deserve that , well the exact crime of Libyan, Sudanese , Syrian , Afghans , Iraqis and Palestinian and people of central Africa , what was their crime to deserve millions of refugees




And when exactly did the Ukrainians managed to do all that ?






Hack-Hook said:


> I don't distribute the judgement , did I participate in the special operation  no i only



You do have responsibility for your words though . . .


~

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Agree -
> 
> Additionally - Russia is one country and therefore has 1 set of manufacturing supply lines to make war replacements - NATO is 30 odd countries - each with their own industrial base and defence manufacturing infrastructure...
> 
> NATO replacements will outgrow what Russia can achieve. All Russia is surviving on is soviet era stocks and now iran and north korea ...
> 
> This war has been an eye opener and people can be assured - those eyes have been opened.


US stocks are still huge. Stockpiles are only “low” relative to US war requirements and readiness. 

US has sent less than 15-20% of its 155mm stock. 25-30% of its Javelin and Stingers. US still has enormous amounts of those weapons.

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And when exactly did the Ukrainians managed to do all that ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do have responsibility for your words though . . .
> 
> 
> ~


exactly what was the crime of those Asian and African , nobody asked about it , now the Ukrainian crime is the same as those people crime maybe more but who care. if you don't know what's the crime there is no point going on. the crime is being in wrong place at wrong time , the crime is being sacrificed for the fattening of the pocket of 1% and there is no crime more serious than that .

and I'm as you are for your words on different matters , i want this war continue. i want some people remind of what they inflict on others on daily bases and they don't care because it happen in far away lands



F-22Raptor said:


> US stocks are still huge. Stockpiles are only “low” relative to US war requirements and readiness.
> 
> US has sent less than 15-20% of its 155mm stock. 25-30% of its Javelin and Stingers. US still has enormous amounts of those weapons.


I believe to some extent more . and that is only USA , the situation of Europe is different , they are depleted to the extent that for example of china want , it can stomp over them .and its only a special operation against a russia that was not began partial mobilization till 1-1.5 month ago . as i said the amount of ammunition is used is insane , ukraine right now uses smart weapon as if they were old unguided USSR ammunition, you are not supposed to flatten the battlefield with these weapons , you are supposed use them against specific targets


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> you are only at war by proxy and you are how many country ? on other hand Russia is at war and it is only one country , now add the military budget of the countries who support Ukraine and compared that with Russia and that give you a more clear view .
> so if your stocks reduce to critical level ,that's sign of well soon you go get ammo from Morocco and Malaysia . you only had higher stock than russia so you could postpone it but the amount of ammunition that is being used in ukraine is on another level and i don't think previously anybody have ever used such volume of fire power


You can't fault us for Russia to take on a country that supported by an alliance. 
And you can't fault us Russia is only 1/6 of our military spending. 

The problem is, we aren't reduced to that "Critical" level, the requirement for DoD is we need to have 50% ready to use stock, and 25% reserve stock, which mean if we gave them more than 25% of our stock, then our situation is "Critical" as per DoD guidelines. 

And the process goes. 

Resupply via normal production -> Resupply via ramped up production -> Resupply via War Production -> Buy off the shelve from another country. 

The US is at most at stage 2 in this process, while Russia is now at stage 4. Again, what do you expect when they use on average 20,000 rounds a day, we are now at day 293, which mean around 6 million rounds had been expanded, compare to US supplying only 865000 rounds to Ukraine. Can you see the different?

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> I believe to some extent more . and that is only USA , the situation of Europe is different , they are depleted to the extent that for example of china want , it can stomp over them .and its only a special operation against a russia that was not began partial mobilization till 1-1.5 month ago . as i said the amount of ammunition is used is insane , ukraine right now uses smart weapon as if they were old unguided USSR ammunition, you are not supposed to flatten the battlefield with these weapons , you are supposed use them against specific targets


Actually, EU is probably a bit better off, because they have actually increased, not decreasing the defence spending. And when there is a China vs the West situation, EU would most likely rally behind US or at most Canada along with Japan and South Korea, there are literally no reason for EU to get involved in a potential war between China and US. EU were insulated. 

On the other hand, more than 80% of the Ukrainian aide come from the US (68 billion vs 9 Billion from EU) EU can and should do more, but I don't think EU combat power were depleted with aide to Ukraine. 

And Ukraine don't have much access to precision weapon, and when they do, they are the one that demostrated on using them surgically. They only attack strategic target (such as oil/fuel facilities, ammo dump and command and control station) with Precision Guided Weapon (HIMARS, Excalibur and so on) they are still largely depends on GRAD and other conventional HE round on fire support.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602278776590696450


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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> i want this war continue. i want some people remind of what they inflict on others on daily bases and they don't care because it happen in far away lands




Only the Ukrainians did not inflict that on others , nor are they responsible for what happened in " far away lands "

How much they care about sh*t that happens in " far away lands " ? i don't know.

But i hope they score higher than you , who wish to see war in a land , that has done nothing to you.

~


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## Vergennes

@bobo6661 lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602256239064498183

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## Viet

Auge um Auge
Zahn um Zahn

The US greenlighting to Ukraine deep strikes on Russia territory.









USA geben offenbar „grünes Licht“: Greift die Ukraine bald vermehrt russisches Territorium an?


Berichten zu Folge hat das Pentagon einen Richtungswechsel eingeschlagen: Die US-Regierung rät Kiew nicht mehr von Angriffen auf Russland ab.




www.tagesspiegel.de












© Bernat Armangue/dpa
​


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## bobo6661

Vergennes said:


> @bobo6661 lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602256239064498183


Oh god ... tru i'm not surprised.  Look at our friend on this forum 😆


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602010090495672324

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> I don't distribute the judgement , did I participate in the special operation  no i only
> 
> what exactly they did to deserve that , well the exact crime of Libyan, Sudanese , Syrian , Afghans , Iraqis and Palestinian and people of central Africa , what was their crime to deserve millions of refugees


I think you should stop derailing the thread with your usual lies.
Surprised that @Deino haven’t given you the negative rating yet.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602374828236881920

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602374292498415616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602374496714891269

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602375851924156418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602375853228408833

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## That Guy

Vergennes said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602013769311588352


Master strategist Putin at work here. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602375085351895040
8 mobiks from Moscow prefered to live than becoming cannon fodder.

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## 925boy

Hack-Hook said:


> you are only at war by proxy and you are how many country ? on other hand Russia is at war and it is only one country , now add the military budget of the countries who support Ukraine and compared that with Russia and that give you a more clear view .
> so if your stocks reduce to critical level ,that's sign of well soon you go get ammo from Morocco and Malaysia . you only had higher stock than russia so you could postpone it but the amount of ammunition that is being used in ukraine is on another level and i don't think previously anybody have ever used such volume of fire power


good points!

The fact that NATO got SUCKED OUT OF critical ammunition without fighting directly, tells me that NATO is a true paper tiger - already been destroyed without a fight, cuz how will NATO FIGHT WITH NO AMMUNITION? lmaoooooo - EU and US are at a dead end in Ukraine i feel - how can they reach a "win"??? (open to serious and well thought out ideas with this).



Ali_Baba said:


> Agree -
> 
> Additionally - Russia is one country and therefore has 1 set of manufacturing supply lines to make war replacements


then what about SHahed 136s that have been so effectively denazifying Ukraine supplied by Iran? tell the full story pls, stop telling half tales.


Ali_Baba said:


> - NATO is 30 odd countries - each with their own industrial base and defence manufacturing infrastructure...


LMAO- thats mcnamara fallacy- "30 odd" countries and they still ran out of ammo? that tells u why they bunched up in a alliance in the first place- its mostly full of weak EU countries that cant stand on their own.




Ali_Baba said:


> NATO replacements will outgrow what Russia can achieve.


fake hypothetical linked to no actual facts on ground.


Ali_Baba said:


> All Russia is surviving on is soviet era stocks and now iran and north korea ...


so why is it still damaging Ukraine so much? you're probably that same person during Afghanistan and IRaq war who thought "US military will be able to finish off these pick up truck riding terrorists", then after that has to pack up and withdraw from the country because of stupidity and incompetence.


Ali_Baba said:


> This war has been an eye opener and people can be assured - those eyes have been opened.


eye opener for NATO! lol- NATO has broken without fighting- just wait for IRan to send the Fateh-110s, even your daddy US knows Ukraine will be done shortly after that.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602141687048196097

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Putin's "bots" are more believable than a brow-noser nobody like you who is chatting from his mom's basement. The mainstream news outlets in the West are corroborating with the the fact that EU economies are in trouble because of the war in Ukraine and the sanctions they put on Russians that backfired on them.
> 
> 👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe accuses US of profiting from war
> 
> 
> EU officials attack Joe Biden over sky-high gas prices, weapons sales and trade as Vladimir Putin’s war threatens to destroy Western unity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu



Now I know I have hit a nerve when you resolve to pathetic posts, like the dictator your worship.

As time has gone, your opinions have evaporated and the number of cut and pastes you are doing has gone up. I am a professional and get my own experiences from actually going to countries and conducting my own observations. Go through my posts and you will see its actual experiences. Not sitting in a tank top like a loser in his underwear (assuming you can afford it) forwarding lies out of bitterness towards the fact Europeans are not suffering Russians are.

Unlike you I am not proud that this war continues. It needs to end. But you have no choice but to keep on doing the brainless tasks of cutting and pasting without an original thought from you.



F-22Raptor said:


> US stocks are still huge. Stockpiles are only “low” relative to US war requirements and readiness.
> 
> US has sent less than 15-20% of its 155mm stock. 25-30% of its Javelin and Stingers. US still has enormous amounts of those weapons.


EU/US economy is 22x of Russia. Not only are stocks not depleted to critical levels, but what ever is gone will be replaced much much faster.

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## Ali_Baba

Putin SCRAPS his annual live TV press conference


Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has been in power since 2000, has held a press conference in December most years of his rule. Last year, he spoke for more than four hours.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Putin afraid he will be asked how well his war erm 'Special Operation' is going ..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Woohoo, the West is screaming about Russia and Iran cooperation when the whole West in arming their cannon fodder in Ukraine. What did they seriously expect? Russia and Iran to sit down with their hands and don't do anything while wars have been imposed on them? The entire West is sh-tting on its pants after they learn Iran and Russia cooperation. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601394289329709057

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## The SC

More updates..The Russians enter Bakhmut..

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## merzifonlu

Russia and Iran would also better cooperate on issues such as how to bloodily suppress demonstrations of unarmed civilians and how to quickly execute arrested demonstrators by being tried in fake courts.

Especially Russia will need this valuable experience gained by Iran from the spring of 2023.


----------



## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> good points!
> 
> The fact that NATO got SUCKED OUT OF critical ammunition without fighting directly, tells me that NATO is a true paper tiger - already been destroyed without a fight, cuz how will NATO FIGHT WITH NO AMMUNITION? lmaoooooo - EU and US are at a dead end in Ukraine i feel - how can they reach a "win"??? (open to serious and well thought out ideas with this).


It tells me of your low IQ. 

Some eu countries are running low on Artillery ammo, javelins, stingers…and now some idiots are jumping to conclusion that Nato is a paper tiger without ammo?

You do realise the entire nato airforce is untouched?
Tanks, navy, ballistics, cruise rockets.
Do you even know the vast size of USA stocks? 



925boy said:


> then what about SHahed 136s that have been so effectively denazifying Ukraine supplied by Iran? tell the full story pls, stop telling half tales.



Shahed came. Kherson fell. 

Next.


925boy said:


> LMAO- thats mcnamara fallacy- "30 odd" countries and they still ran out of ammo? that tells u why they bunched up in a alliance in the first place- its mostly full of weak EU countries that cant stand on their own.


Ukraine wants to be one of the 31. Just ukraine is enough to have russia destroy its army against it….


925boy said:


> fake hypothetical linked to no actual facts on ground.
> 
> so why is it still damaging Ukraine so much? you're probably that same person during Afghanistan and IRaq war who thought "US military will be able to finish off these pick up truck riding terrorists", then after that has to pack up and withdraw from the country because of stupidity and incompetence.
> 
> eye opener for NATO! lol- NATO has broken without fighting- just wait for IRan to send the Fateh-110s, even your daddy US knows Ukraine will be done shortly after that.


Russia lost 8700 pieces of equipment. 

Nato has new members and sees increased future budgets. Though since russia is going to be a shadow of itself it is hardly necessary anymore…



The SC said:


> More updates..The Russians enter Bakhmut..


I thought they did that 5 months ago already?

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## The SC

Ukraine War Map | Battle of Bakhmut Shifts to Urban fighting | Full Frontline Update​

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602375085351895040
> 8 mobiks from Moscow prefered to live than becoming cannon fodder.





Captured Ukrainian POWs


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602415744981078028

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602414841242783746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602405226723540992

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602322134566670336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602371895634059265

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602322134566670336








Old video from November at least. It seems Russians are desperate enough posting 15x the same video but posting it 15x times won't make it as 15 M777.


----------



## Super Falcon

Beny Karachun said:


> They seem very unreliable and hard to control. 1/3-1/2 of the times they miss the target.


Do agree due to their huge size and non aerodynamic design but Russia is developing them cheaply if 10 out three hit the target Russia is still happy becoz they don't have to loose their fence T 90 KA 52


----------



## zartosht

200 brand new t-90 tanks delivered to the LPR forces. 

Thats just the militia not the Russian army…

To put that into perspective germany has around 230 tanks in its entire army. 

The Russians are pumping out tanks like candy… while combined nato is scraping together a few hand me downs here and there. And complaining they dont have any left

Reports of ukies desperately short on apc’s. With some soldiers walking upto 10 kms to reposition

Russians have entered Bakhmut. The Russian army is growing by the day with trained troops being added.

This is going to get real ugly for the ukies

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> Ukraine War Map | Battle of Bakhmut Shifts to Urban fighting | Full Frontline Update​






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602350476707729414

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602362258218258445

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602357943239938062
Where did all of the weapons sent by the West go? 70% of that unit's members were killed or wounded. That is a remarkable attrition rate.

The meat grinder in Bakhmut. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602347638095069189

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Old video from November at least. It seems Russians are desperate enough posting 15x the same video but posting it 15x times won't make it as 15 M777.





I think it is that user who posted an old clip. Now, how about this below one? Is that an old one as well? Bring proof if you are gonna cast every Ukrainian M777 destroyed by the Russians as old or fake. Capiche? 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602263561253822466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602294187562569729

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602373980207316998

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602417094016045057

Ukrainian Tatra T815 destroyed by the Russian liberators 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602367686557798439


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602348157895151617

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I think it is that user who posted an old clip. Now, how about this below one? Is that an old one as well? Bring proof if you are gonna cast every Ukrainian M777 destroyed by the Russians as old or fake. Capiche?
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602263561253822466
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602294187562569729



It's funny you ask for "proofs" when you don't provide any. BTW the lancet missed both LMAO

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602411031636152320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602300988420931586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602222400283738114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602222421876133888

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602456283331719168

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602458103827632131

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602338495909040129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602318165870104576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602289031324237824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602201019685154816

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## The SC

The Russian advances in the last five and a half months on the Bakhmut front, the problem of the Russians is that they strike and attack the strongest Ukrainian defenses, while the Ukrainians usually choose the weakest Russian defenses to penetrate them and then force the strong ones to withdraw, in the end the Bakhmut front is confrontational and a real meat grinder for both sides..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602211753743585280

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## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> 200 brand new t-90 tanks delivered to the LPR forces.
> 
> Thats just the militia not the Russian army…
> 
> To put that into perspective germany has around 230 tanks in its entire army.
> 
> The Russians are pumping out tanks like candy… while combined nato is scraping together a few hand me downs here and there. And complaining they dont have any left
> 
> Reports of ukies desperately short on apc’s. With some soldiers walking upto 10 kms to reposition
> 
> Russians have entered Bakhmut. The Russian army is growing by the day with trained troops being added.
> 
> This is going to get real ugly for the ukies



Keep dreaming


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What did they seriously expect? Russia and Iran to sit down with their hands and don't do anything while wars have been imposed on them?



Sure , " imposed ". 


~

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## 8888888888888

1 to 2 months ago a lot of Russian haters were cheering that Russia will lose at Bakhmut, now nothing but silence.

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## 925boy

The SC said:


> in the end the Bakhmut front is confrontational and a real meat grinder for both sides..


Bakhmut being a meat grinder for Russia is false and another fake propaganda to keep pathetic ukrainian military feeling good- Russia will win Bakhmut, cuz Ukraine doesnt have what it takes to keep it- and if this is the most serious fighting since SMO started, and Russia will likely win it (cuz Russian army has effectively destroyed alot of Ukrainian military there), then fall of Bakhmut for Ukraine will be the biggest territorial loss in the war so far- gaining Kherson wont be enough to justify the scale of Ukraine's losses in Bakhmut.

I guess Wagner showed competence in Bakhmut.



8888888888888 said:


> 1 to 2 months ago a lot of Russian haters were cheering that Russia will lose at Bakhmut, now nothing but silence.


now stupid and broke Ukranian military is moving around the frontline in pick up trucks alot more i notice- why? all their APCs been destroyed? those pick up trucks ensure Russia can kill many Ukrainian ground forces effectively and easily.

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## Viet

925boy said:


> Bakhmut being a meat grinder for Russia is false and another fake propaganda to keep pathetic ukrainian military feeling good- Russia will win Bakhmut, cuz Ukraine doesnt have what it takes to keep it- and if this is the most serious fighting since SMO started, and Russia will likely win it (cuz Russian army has effectively destroyed alot of Ukrainian military there), then fall of Bakhmut for Ukraine will be the biggest territorial loss in the war so far- gaining Kherson wont be enough to justify the scale of Ukraine's losses in Bakhmut.
> 
> I guess Wagner showed competence in Bakhmut.
> 
> 
> now stupid and broke Ukranian military is moving around the frontline in pick up trucks alot more i notice- why? all their APCs been destroyed? those pick up trucks ensure Russia can kill many Ukrainian ground forces effectively and easily.


Bakhmut has no strategic value. What has Bakhmut? The Russians can’t survive in the city even they can take it because it is totally destroyed. The Wagners hooligans just want to show the Russia army they can win a battle. Nothing else.

The Russians want to kill Ukraine army members there as much as possible. Because they know Ukraine will hold the city at all costs.

That’s exactly the strategy of Germany in WW1 in the battle of Verdun.

Verdun has no strategic value.
The Germans just wanted to kill as many French army members as possible. Nothing else.

At the end one million soldiers died. Worthless.

Luckily both Germany and France have moved on. Only the Russians are still stuck in primitive dead beatings.

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## Lehrasap

zartosht said:


> This is going to get real ugly for the *ukies*



If it is allowed to call Ukrainians as *ukies*, then would you mind if they call Iranians as *Irkies?*

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## ZeGerman

8888888888888 said:


> 1 to 2 months ago a lot of Russian haters were cheering that Russia will lose at Bakhmut, now nothing but silence.


Quote those posts? 

Nothing about losing…more about how this russian propaganda offensive had been taking months and months. 

Bakhmut was claimed to fall 5 months ago. 
They just reached the outskirts now.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I think you should stop derailing the thread with your usual lies.
> Surprised that @Deino haven’t given you the negative rating yet.


for what stating the sentiment of the people in this part of the wood about this ridiculous war

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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> 200 brand new t-90 tanks delivered to the LPR forces.
> 
> Thats just the militia not the Russian army…
> 
> To put that into perspective germany has around 230 tanks in its entire army.
> 
> The Russians are pumping out tanks like candy… while combined nato is scraping together a few hand me downs here and there. And complaining they dont have any left
> 
> Reports of ukies desperately short on apc’s. With some soldiers walking upto 10 kms to reposition
> 
> Russians have entered Bakhmut. The Russian army is growing by the day with trained troops being added.
> 
> This is going to get real ugly for the ukies


Like they pumped out the armata tank over the last 10 years? 
How many are active? 3?

And they are having sooo many candy T90s that they have to use T-64 from ancient soviet stock?

Your story sure adds up! I guess i will just trust you on your “trust me bro” “source”…..



Hack-Hook said:


> for what stating the sentiment of the people in this part of the wood about this ridiculous war


Sad you cant see how ridiculously hateful and racist your sentiment is. 

Hoping iranians freeze to death so they can feel how war is. Why? Well because of how Pakistan used ISI to fuel war in Afghanistan/Kashmir. 

That is how you sound.

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## Beny Karachun

Super Falcon said:


> Do agree due to their huge size and non aerodynamic design but Russia is developing them cheaply if 10 out three hit the target Russia is still happy becoz they don't have to loose their fence T 90 KA 52


You could still develop them cheaply and have way better design and achieve way better results.



zartosht said:


> 200 brand new t-90 tanks delivered to the LPR forces.
> 
> Thats just the militia not the Russian army…
> 
> To put that into perspective germany has around 230 tanks in its entire army.


Even if this is true, without APS, they would continue to be easily destroyed just like they've been since the start of the war.

1. Because Russian tanks are garbage
2. Because Russian tankers are inexperienced

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## Muhammed45

Savagery among Ukrainians

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602585140093411328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602560451732275200


----------



## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Auge um Auge
> Zahn um Zahn
> 
> The US greenlighting to Ukraine deep strikes on Russia territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA geben offenbar „grünes Licht“: Greift die Ukraine bald vermehrt russisches Territorium an?
> 
> 
> Berichten zu Folge hat das Pentagon einen Richtungswechsel eingeschlagen: Die US-Regierung rät Kiew nicht mehr von Angriffen auf Russland ab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesspiegel.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Bernat Armangue/dpa
> ​


They give green light to deep inside strikes.
But they dont give them weapons to deep inside stikes.



USA doesnt want a Ukraine victory (neither defeat), USA wants a constant endless war next to Russian border.

America and Eurasia interests are strongly different interests, coldly thought.

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> The Russian advances in the last five and a half months on the Bakhmut front, the problem of the Russians is that they strike and attack the strongest Ukrainian defenses, while the Ukrainians usually choose the weakest Russian defenses to penetrate them and then force the strong ones to withdraw, in the end the Bakhmut front is confrontational and a real meat grinder for both sides..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602211753743585280


Funnily enough, even if Bakhmut falls, Russia taking Bakhmut is not a win for the Russian army, it's a win for Wagner.

Even then, it's a pyrrhic victory. The Ukrainians are almost certain to take back that territory. It's just a stupid strategic move by the Russians.

Extreme losses for temporary gains that hold very little strategic value.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> It's funny you ask for "proofs" when you don't provide any. BTW the lancet missed both LMAO




What you're doing is called a copium. You want to cope with the hammering that the Ukrainian forces are taking on all fronts. Easy with the opium, bro. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602616435959816192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602582206907555840
One of the consequences of Shaheed-136/Geran-2 drones is it has almost depleted the Ukrainian S-3000 and Buk ammunition. 👇

hhttps://twitter.com/Chronology22/status/1602592371258048512



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602553404307406849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602621624783699972

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Beny Karachun said:


> You could still develop them cheaply and have way better design and achieve way better results.
> 
> 
> Even if this is true, without APS, they would continue to be easily destroyed just like they've been since the start of the war.
> 
> 1. Because Russian tanks are garbage
> 2. Because Russian tankers are inexperienced




Says by an Israeli who runs to the nearest bomb shelter as soon as he hears the sound of an alarm for an incoming, home-made Palestinian resistance's rocket. Stop acting as a military "analyst" here. You're just spewing a hot air here, buddy.

Now, go and cope with what the Russians are doing in the Donbas meat grinder. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602637860171022339

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602639672404049920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602636926196006912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602586749628473344

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602585140093411328
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602560451732275200






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602619406030356482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602622624525426690

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602624129231998978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602625490514223107

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## Hassan Al-Somal

That Guy said:


> Funnily enough, even if Bakhmut falls, Russia taking Bakhmut is not a win for the Russian army, it's a win for Wagner.
> 
> Even then, it's a pyrrhic victory. The Ukrainians are almost certain to take back that territory. It's just a stupid strategic move by the Russians.
> 
> Extreme losses for temporary gains that hold very little strategic value.




Part of the goal of the Russian side in Bakhmut has been to inflict unbearable casualties on the most trained and equipped Ukrainian forces. This was a grinding war and the Russians seem to be almost there in achieving that goal.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602322510871150593

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Part of the goal of the Russian side in Bakhmut has been to inflict unbearable casualties on the most trained and equipped Ukrainian forces. This was a grinding war and the Russians seem to be almost there in achieving that goal.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602322510871150593



Because the Russians aren't suffering massive casualties in their waves attacks ?



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Says by an Israeli who runs to the nearest bomb shelter as soon as he hears the sound of an alarm for an incoming, home-made Palestinian resistance's rocket. Stop acting as a military "analyst" here. You're just spewing a hot air here, buddy.
> 
> Now, go and cope with what the Russians are doing in the Donbas meat grinder. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602637860171022339
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602639672404049920
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602636926196006912
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602586749628473344



Are you again aware the Russians are claiming to have destroyed more MLRS than delivered to Kyiv, of course without providing any kind of evidence of any destroyed. 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602612289076609025
https://twitter.com/PaulJawin/status/1602597969139826689?s=20&t=kl2ESlmGTWXBcHqyCXr2AA

https://twitter.com/PaulJawin/status/1602587767426682881?s=20&t=kl2ESlmGTWXBcHqyCXr2AA

https://twitter.com/PaulJawin/status/1602580722786701312?s=20&t=kl2ESlmGTWXBcHqyCXr2AA

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Part of the goal of the Russian side in Bakhmut has been to inflict unbearable casualties on the most trained and equipped Ukrainian forces. This was a grinding war and the Russians seem to be almost there in achieving that goal.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602322510871150593


Bro, the narrative from the Russian side has changed on what their goal is in Bakhmut from the beginning.

It's a Wagner pet project to legitimize their leader as a potential successor to Putin, or at the very least put him in a position where he basically control's Russia's security services.

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## The SC

That Guy said:


> Funnily enough, even if Bakhmut falls, Russia taking Bakhmut is not a win for the Russian army, it's a win for Wagner.
> 
> Even then, it's a pyrrhic victory. The Ukrainians are almost certain to take back that territory. It's just a stupid strategic move by the Russians.
> 
> Extreme losses for temporary gains that hold very little strategic value.


Ukrainian steadfastness in Bakhmut conflicts with Russian political interests, but is compatible with military interests. These Ukrainian steadfasts constitute fuel for the Russian crematorium, especially since most of them are from the Ukrainian elite, nationalists, and from the Foreign Legion. Bakhmut has become an impenetrable protective wall, but if it collapses, the Ukrainian defenses will collapse like dominoes, because The Russians focus their fire on this impregnable line and on the elected support, reserve and offensive capabilities behind it..


----------



## Vergennes

The SC said:


> Ukrainian steadfastness in Bakhmut conflicts with Russian political interests, but is compatible with military interests. These Ukrainian steadfasts constitute fuel for the Russian crematorium, especially since most of them are from the Ukrainian elite, nationalists, and from the Foreign Legion. Bakhmut has become an impenetrable protective wall, but if it collapses, the Ukrainian defenses will collapse like dominoes, because The Russians focus their fire on this impregnable line and on the elected support, reserve and offensive capabilities behind it..



Are you aware that actually Bakhmut represents no strategic objective since the Russian threat to Kramatorsk and Sloviansk has been nullified after the Ukrainian offensives on Izyum/Kupiansk and Lyman that the capture of Bakhmut would only destroy the prestige of the Russian armed forces (an elite institution in Russia) if a group of mercenaries composed of the lowest of the low of the Russian society would present the first "Russian victory" since the fall of Lysychansk and Severodonetsk and could only be the ones assuring Russia some kind of victories ?

The only thing happening is the Russians getting outflanked in the north in the so called "Luhansk republic" while the Russians are throwing majority of their forces on Bakhmut and suffering horrible losses in wave frontal attacks.

A victory in Bakhmut would only serve the interests of the Prigojine and nothing else.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Says by an Israeli who runs to the nearest bomb shelter as soon as he hears the sound of an alarm for an incoming, home-made Palestinian resistance's rocket. Stop acting as a military "analyst" here. You're just spewing a hot air here, buddy.
> 
> Now, go and cope with what the Russians are doing in the Donbas meat grinder. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602637860171022339
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602639672404049920
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602636926196006912
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602586749628473344


Russian soldiers in the trenches probably wish for a system that alarms them when HIMARS rains down on them lol, and wish even more for a system like the Iron Dome to intercept them.


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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> Ukrainian steadfastness in Bakhmut conflicts with Russian political interests, but is compatible with military interests. These Ukrainian steadfasts constitute fuel for the Russian crematorium, especially since most of them are from the Ukrainian elite, nationalists, and from the Foreign Legion. Bakhmut has become an impenetrable protective wall, but if it collapses, the Ukrainian defenses will collapse like dominoes, because The Russians focus their fire on this impregnable line and on the elected support, reserve and offensive capabilities behind it..



Every time russia wins a grinding victory over some heavily contested village/minor city we hear the same bullshit.

How the fall of x (severodonetsk) will lead to all other defenses falling like dominoes/being completely uncontested and surely victory is near comrade. 

Surely your not that stupid to believe the same now. Ukraine has large formations elsewhere, in heavily prepped defenses. 

Larger cities are far far far away for the russians who can barely muster any offensive anymore (bakhmut is taking months).

russia poured troops from Kherson to Bakhmut. The question is…where is ukraine sending its troops (formerly tied in kherson province). 

Himars attack pattern indicate softening up somewhere else.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602622032239280129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602680335871152128

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## Vergennes

@bobo6661 why are Russians so obsessed with Poland and Polish people?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602691334137122822

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602654329491660801

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## 925boy

Viet said:


> Bakhmut has no strategic value.


then why is Ukrainian military losing 500- 1000 soldiers a day there? the facts on the ground dont agree with this comment.


Viet said:


> What has Bakhmut


ask the Ukranian military- if it has no value and they've lost so manyt soldiers for something valueless then that means the Ukranian military is VERY STUPID.


Viet said:


> The Russians can’t survive in the city even they can take it because it is totally destroyed.


ha ha - but Ukranians were about to survie in Kherson and Kharkiv- werent they mostly destroyed too?


Viet said:


> The Wagners hooligans just want to show the Russia army they can win a battle.


but the territory they capture or military objectives they mean mean nothing? u think Russian army pays Wagner to "show they can win a battle"? lmao- poor logic.


Viet said:


> The Russians want to kill Ukraine army members there as much as possible.


As they rightfully should- have you heard of the word called "war"?


Viet said:


> Because they know Ukraine will hold the city at all costs.


using what ground forces? a grandma riding a pickup truck to avoid shahedification or neo nazis in Ukraine?

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## Beny Karachun

925boy said:


> then why is Ukrainian military losing 500- 1000 soldiers a day there? the facts on the ground dont agree with this comment.


Only according to Russia

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## 925boy

That Guy said:


> Funnily enough, even if Bakhmut falls, Russia taking Bakhmut is not a win for the Russian army, it's a win for Wagner.


but Wagner works for RUssia so how is that not still a victory for Russia? this logic is 0% valid.


That Guy said:


> Even then, it's a pyrrhic victory.


in your opinion- you didnt do the fighting , and you dont have any insight into Russian strategic thinking, so your opinion cant be that correct.


That Guy said:


> The Ukrainians are almost certain to take back that territory.


thanks for admitting they've lost it- and no ,they wont get bakhmut back- if Ukraine gets Bakhmut back, i will delete my PDF account.


That Guy said:


> It's just a stupid strategic move by the Russians.


no what was stupd was Ukrainian military losing 500-1000 soldiers a day over Bakhmut, that was apparently "not strategic" - supreme idiot logic- if its worthless then why die for it?


That Guy said:


> Extreme losses for temporary gains that hold very little strategic value.


See point above.



Beny Karachun said:


> Only according to Russia


Ukrainian military or other EU sources have confirmed similar.

Russia- keep it up.

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## 925boy

That Guy said:


> Bro, the narrative from the Russian side has changed on what their goal is in Bakhmut from the beginning.
> 
> It's a Wagner pet project to legitimize their leader as a potential successor to Putin, or at the very least put him in a position where he basically control's Russia's security services.


no you're the one trying to insert irrelevant narratives in Bakhmut- you;re distracting us by focusing on irrelevant side rubbishes- lets focus on the military c onflcit- Ukraine has lost Bakhmust- SIMPLE! end of story.

When Ukraine took Kherson we Russia supporters accepted it, now its time for you to accept Bakhmut will fall and stupid Ukrainian military lost too many valuable soldiers there, only to lose it, you dont want to- we see how you behave, facts on ground will always override your opinins you think about Bakhmut.

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## That Guy

925boy said:


> no you're the one trying to insert irrelevant narratives in Bakhmut- you;re distracting us by focusing on irrelevant side rubbishes- lets focus on the military c onflcit- Ukraine has lost Bakhmust- SIMPLE! end of story.
> 
> When Ukraine took Kherson we Russia supporters accepted it, now its time for you to accept Bakhmut will fall and stupid Ukrainian military lost too many valuable soldiers there, only to lose it, you dont want to- we see how you behave, facts on ground will always override your opinins you think about Bakhmut.











925boy said:


> but Wagner works for RUssia so how is that not still a victory for Russia? this logic is 0% valid.
> 
> in your opinion- you didnt do the fighting , and you dont have any insight into Russian strategic thinking, so your opinion cant be that correct.
> 
> thanks for admitting they've lost it- and no ,they wont get bakhmut back- if Ukraine gets Bakhmut back, i will delete my PDF account.
> 
> no what was stupd was Ukrainian military losing 500-1000 soldiers a day over Bakhmut, that was apparently "not strategic" - supreme idiot logic- if its worthless then why die for it?
> 
> See point above.
> 
> 
> Ukrainian military or other EU sources have confirmed similar.
> 
> Russia- keep it up.

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## 925boy

That Guy said:


> View attachment 905574


is this your best counter to my points? if yes, then i guess i'm right.

You know, i would advise you to stop attacking people (me, SCott Rittier) because you cant counter their points- stop your ad hominems and ARGUE THE POINT.

but i guess you cant argue this point cuz you dont have one, and you definitely dont have a good one. cheers.


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## Vergennes

925boy said:


> thanks for admitting they've lost it- and no ,they wont get bakhmut back- if Ukraine gets Bakhmut back, i will delete my PDF account.



You were the one saying "Ukraine will never take Kherson back you can screenshot this",I think we can do without your "analysis".

BTW Russian bots over here are acting as if Russia isn't suffering huge losses while sending their soldiers in wave frontal attacks,reality is the Russian military is wasting much valuable ressources (probably suffering 3x more losses compared to Ukrainians) trying to take a city without any much strategic importance.

For now Ukrainians are nowhere near losing the city,despite the Russians throwing waves after waves and turning the city into rubbles,in fact Ukrainians are nowhere near encirclement as of now,let alone capturing the town.

Unlike some here are trying to tell us,Russians aren't "strategic masters and chess players",their only strategy is to send their cannon fodders in wave attacks and turning every village and town into rubbles,pretty much WW1/2 tactics,seems like nothing much changed for the Russians over time. The only difference is they lost their best motorized/VDV/tank brigades along the process since february and are now relying on wagnerites/tiktok chechens and cannon fodder "mobilized" to achieve some kind of victory,not forgeting those DNR/LNR cannon fodders,or what's left of them.

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## The SC

ZeGerman said:


> Every time russia wins a grinding victory over some heavily contested village/minor city we hear the same bullshit.
> 
> How the fall of x (severodonetsk) will lead to all other defenses falling like dominoes/being completely uncontested and surely victory is near comrade.
> 
> Surely your not that stupid to believe the same now. Ukraine has large formations elsewhere, in heavily prepped defenses.
> 
> Larger cities are far far far away for the russians who can barely muster any offensive anymore (bakhmut is taking months).
> 
> russia poured troops from Kherson to Bakhmut. The question is…where is ukraine sending its troops (formerly tied in kherson province).
> 
> Himars attack pattern indicate softening up somewhere else.


I'm sure you are not that stupid to believe that AFU is sacrificing thousands of soldiers to defend a city with no value..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602693719794352133

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602601685486125056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602599944388595712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602268679508566016

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## bobo6661

Vergennes said:


> @bobo6661 why are Russians so obsessed with Poland and Polish people?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602691334137122822
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602654329491660801


They fear us we are the only country other than mongols that conquered them so maybe that's why To be honest i have no freaking idea why they so obsessed with us  Tru there are already K2 tanks in my town and thats like less then100 km from border... Didnt expect them to do it so fast.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602587636400635905

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## That Guy

925boy said:


> is this your best counter to my points? if yes, then i guess i'm right.
> 
> You know, i would advise you to stop attacking people (me, SCott Rittier) because you cant counter their points- stop your ad hominems and ARGUE THE POINT.
> 
> but i guess you cant argue this point cuz you dont have one, and you definitely dont have a good one. cheers.


Your point is trash and based off of absolutely nothing.

I'm addressing your comment with the way it should be addressed.

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## Viet

925boy said:


> then why is Ukrainian military losing 500- 1000 soldiers a day there? the facts on the ground dont agree with this comment.
> 
> ask the Ukranian military- if it has no value and they've lost so manyt soldiers for something valueless then that means the Ukranian military is VERY STUPID.
> 
> ha ha - but Ukranians were about to survie in Kherson and Kharkiv- werent they mostly destroyed too?
> 
> but the territory they capture or military objectives they mean mean nothing? u think Russian army pays Wagner to "show they can win a battle"? lmao- poor logic.
> 
> As they rightfully should- have you heard of the word called "war"?
> 
> using what ground forces? a grandma riding a pickup truck to avoid shahedification or neo nazis in Ukraine?


Where you get the figure Ukraine lose 500 to 1,000 per day? That’s unrealistic. Because lack of intense concentration of troops and heavy weapons. Bakhmut is a small city of 70,000 inhabitants pre war, now probably few elders remain all were evacuated. The city has no strategic value. If anything it is the southern most of Ukraine defense at Donbas.

The battle of Bakhmut is mostly between Russia infantry and Ukraine artillery. The casualty is about 100 deaths and 100 wounded per day. For Ukraine defenders and Russian attackers.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602714811426545672
US to send Patriots

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602714811426545672
> US to send Patriots



This is a HUGE leap in air defense capability for the Ukrainians


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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> They give green light to deep inside strikes.
> But they dont give them weapons to deep inside stikes.
> 
> 
> 
> USA doesnt want a Ukraine victory (neither defeat), USA wants a constant endless war next to Russian border.
> 
> America and Eurasia interests are strongly different interests, coldly thought.


Ukraine can make weapons including nukes to strike Russia. That’s not a problem at all. Within USSR Russia and Ukraine were the 2 key players of weapons manufacturing. This war has the potential it will kill off both countries eventually.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602741542543937537

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> for what stating the sentiment of the people in this part of the wood about this ridiculous war


No, for your whataboutism.


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## Beny Karachun

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/zk4bm5

Israeli soldiers in Ukraine

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## 925boy

That Guy said:


> Your point is trash and based off of absolutely nothing.


thanks, i know this military sht quite well- silence and scant responses is what i often get when i hit the truth on wars and military issues.


That Guy said:


> I'm addressing your comment with the way it should be addressed.


sounds like you are realizing that Russian military isnt a joke and hasnt "lost" the war per this thread's fake propaganda. Lets keep chatting about this war bro!

WHY IS Ukraine sending Babushkas from its 11th conscription or mobilization to the front line in pick up trucks?

Pick up trucks showing on the battlefield means Ukraine is VISIBLY losing the war- Ukraine now has to opt for ISIS talibanistani style type of warfare that even taliban dont do anymore. lmao

Russia must've wiped out ALOT of military vehicles Ukraine CANT REPLACE

@F-22Raptor you realize Russia can replace all the thousands of military equipment that gets destroyed in Ukraine better than Ukraine can replace what RUssia destroyed of its military equipment right?

Ukraine played stupid game,s now it has to win stupid prizes.



F-22Raptor said:


> This is a HUGE leap in air defense capability for the Ukrainians


it also means Ukraine is losing the war- because US is behaving like it feels it HAS to supply Ukraine better equipment to have any chance of winning- Ukraine has to pay that cost for this level of stupidity

When NATO Relies on military equipment, thats how you know they are about to lose- all the wars they lost, they boasted about military equipment, and between Talibanistanis, to Al Qaeda, to Kataib Hezbollah, both their superior equipments and will to fight were broken- facts.

Since NATO troops wont operate those patriots- Russia will fry them so soon. 

Iran will probably be sending Arash-2s and Fatehs to Russia once those patriots arrive- even SHahed 136 (I LOVE YOU BOO!) can smash those stupid patriots- US sending more money to Ukraine than it even has to give- hunger is real in US too.

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## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> 1 to 2 months ago a lot of Russian haters were cheering that Russia will lose at Bakhmut, now nothing but silence.



That's because Russia had not "TAKEN" Bakhmut yet.

They are in the outskirt of Bakhmut near the primary defence line in the industrial zone.









That Guy said:


> Funnily enough, even if Bakhmut falls, Russia taking Bakhmut is not a win for the Russian army, it's a win for Wagner.
> 
> Even then, it's a pyrrhic victory. The Ukrainians are almost certain to take back that territory. It's just a stupid strategic move by the Russians.
> 
> Extreme losses for temporary gains that hold very little strategic value.


Well, it took them 5 months to chew thru the first defence line. 

They try to come from 3 sides, from Opytne from the South and Soledar from the North, and Ukrainian still hold both. 

There are 3 defensive lines in Bakhmut, they just breached the first one, and the there are two more, the last one being Bakhmut River itself. From the rate the Russian is going, it will probably take them 10 months to break thru them all if it is at all possible, don't forget the Russia is about to get into Urban Warfare in Bakhmut.

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## jhungary

lol, it's really funny the these Russky folk think they already had won in Bakhmut when they just took 5 months just to *arrive at the outskirt of town*. Do you people even know what's waiting for the Russian? The town itself and a whole lot of urban fighting.

It will be like Mariupol, the only different is, this time Ukrainian was not cut off, and they have a better defensive position that they had in Mariupol. 

The fight for Bakhmut has just started. And we are halfway into December.......

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## That Guy

925boy said:


> thanks, i know this military sht quite well- silence and scant responses is what i often get when i hit the truth on wars and military issues.
> 
> sounds like you are realizing that Russian military isnt a joke and hasnt "lost" the war per this thread's fake propaganda. Lets keep chatting about this war bro!
> 
> WHY IS Ukraine sending Babushkas from its 11th conscription or mobilization to the front line in pick up trucks?
> 
> Pick up trucks showing on the battlefield means Ukraine is VISIBLY losing the war- Ukraine now has to opt for ISIS talibanistani style type of warfare that even taliban dont do anymore. lmao
> 
> Russia must've wiped out ALOT of military vehicles Ukraine CANT REPLACE
> 
> @F-22Raptor you realize Russia can replace all the thousands of military equipment that gets destroyed in Ukraine better than Ukraine can replace what RUssia destroyed of its military equipment right?
> 
> Ukraine played stupid game,s now it has to win stupid prizes.
> 
> 
> it also means Ukraine is losing the war- because US is behaving like it feels it HAS to supply Ukraine better equipment to have any chance of winning- Ukraine has to pay that cost for this level of stupidity
> 
> When NATO Relies on military equipment, thats how you know they are about to lose- all the wars they lost, they boasted about military equipment, and between Talibanistanis, to Al Qaeda, to Kataib Hezbollah, both their superior equipments and will to fight were broken- facts.
> 
> Since NATO troops wont operate those patriots- Russia will fry them so soon.
> 
> Iran will probably be sending Arash-2s and Fatehs to Russia once those patriots arrive- even SHahed 136 (I LOVE YOU BOO!) can smash those stupid patriots- US sending more money to Ukraine than it even has to give- hunger is real in US too.


Lmao, the Russian military has been nothing but a joke.

Also, you really don't know anything about military related shit. So far you've been wrong on almost everything.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> then why is Ukrainian military losing 500- 1000 soldiers a day there? the facts on the ground dont agree with this comment.


Are you 'on the ground' counting these body bags and then keeping us appraised or listening to some Russia twitter feed and not counting body bags but equally hard job of copy/pasting here.

Nobody should believe Russia's estimate of Ukrainian casualty figures any more than from pro-Ukraine twitter accounts about Russia's losses.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602714811426545672
> US to send Patriots


Oh no, the paper NATO army is going to collapse since there are only 2 Patriot batteries in the world and half of them are being sent to Ukraine. Surely this is the collapse of NATO's arsenal (all sarcasm).



925boy said:


> thanks, i know this military sht quite well- silence and scant responses is what i often get when i hit the truth on wars and military issues.
> 
> sounds like you are realizing that Russian military isnt a joke and hasnt "lost" the war per this thread's fake propaganda. Lets keep chatting about this war bro!
> 
> WHY IS Ukraine sending Babushkas from its 11th conscription or mobilization to the front line in pick up trucks?
> 
> Pick up trucks showing on the battlefield means Ukraine is VISIBLY losing the war- Ukraine now has to opt for ISIS talibanistani style type of warfare that even taliban dont do anymore. lmao
> 
> Russia must've wiped out ALOT of military vehicles Ukraine CANT REPLACE
> 
> @F-22Raptor you realize Russia can replace all the thousands of military equipment that gets destroyed in Ukraine better than Ukraine can replace what RUssia destroyed of its military equipment right?
> 
> Ukraine played stupid game,s now it has to win stupid prizes.
> 
> 
> it also means Ukraine is losing the war- because US is behaving like it feels it HAS to supply Ukraine better equipment to have any chance of winning- Ukraine has to pay that cost for this level of stupidity
> 
> When NATO Relies on military equipment, thats how you know they are about to lose- all the wars they lost, they boasted about military equipment, and between Talibanistanis, to Al Qaeda, to Kataib Hezbollah, both their superior equipments and will to fight were broken- facts.
> 
> Since NATO troops wont operate those patriots- Russia will fry them so soon.
> 
> Iran will probably be sending Arash-2s and Fatehs to Russia once those patriots arrive- even SHahed 136 (I LOVE YOU BOO!) can smash those stupid patriots- US sending more money to Ukraine than it even has to give- hunger is real in US too.


These loser drones are okay for destroying civilian targets with the accuracy of a blind man in a bomber. All these years in Yemen, not once has any aircraft at a Saudi military installation been destroyed (at Khamais Mushayt which is well within range) .

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## 925boy

That Guy said:


> Lmao, the Russian military has been nothing but a joke.
> 
> Also, you really don't know anything about military related shit. So far you've been wrong on almost everything.


i'm giving you logical points that are getting way above you, hence you get emotional with me - no worries- i'll keep teaching, hopefully you keep learning.

Hopefully Ukraine will be fuly balkanized by mid next year - isnt it amazing how Karma came to pay US and NATO back for all their investments in breaking up other countries but that has come to bite Ukraine?

SInce Ukraine is fighting now with Babushkas in pick up trucks, i suspect Ukranian military wont be gaining back any sizeable city in East Ukraine EVER.

Karma is a b*tch, but she's the realest one of them all.



aviator_fan said:


> Are you 'on the ground' counting these body bags and then keeping us appraised or listening to some Russia twitter feed and not counting body bags but equally hard job of copy/pasting here.


its not my fault you cant keep up with the war buddy- its confusing you the same way its confusing PDF think tank guy- y'all are a bunch of emotional men with little analytical ability, so you bich at us who understand the logic of war- go read more!


aviator_fan said:


> Nobody should believe Russia's estimate of Ukrainian casualty figures any more than from pro-Ukraine twitter accounts about Russia's losses.


nobody has to- the dead bodies of idiot Ukranian military soldiers lay in the trenches in bakhmut- UKraine couldnt even come to pick them up, thats how more soldiers died.


aviator_fan said:


> Oh no, the paper NATO army is going to collapse since there are only 2 Patriot batteries in the world and half of them are being sent to Ukraine. Surely this is the collapse of NATO's arsenal (all sarcasm).


what is sarcastic about the reality that NATO is low on ammunition? you know i've done stand up comedy before? jokes reveal uncomfortable truths, so you are admitting the truth you are in denial of still -Ukraine will die for this matter- if NATO gets involved, man, NATO soldiers will die the same way they kiled IRaqi, Afghan, Syrian, Yemeni soldiers too! karma again?


aviator_fan said:


> These loser drones are okay for destroying civilian targets with the accuracy of a blind man in a bomber.


you say this rubbish while Ukranians have to emigrate from their country in masses because they have no power or services? watch how you talk bro and show respect for what Ukranian civilians are going through.


aviator_fan said:


> All these years in Yemen, not once has any aircraft at a Saudi military installation been destroyed (at Khamais Mushayt which is well within range) .


so what? Saudis have lost, cuz they cant win- tehy are in a Ukranian! they have the best equipment- aparently, and the most money- apparently- but they cant win, which means , THEY LOST.

THe way houthis worked Saudis, its not even funny, if you try to argue for saudis you only prove you dont understand modern warfare and its realities.

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## Ali_Baba

Russian troops 'retreat' from Kherson area to help units in north​Russian forces are increasingly running out of men to cover all invaded areas of Ukraine.​








Russian troops 'retreat' from Kherson area to help units in north


Russian forces are increasingly running out of men to cover all invaded areas of Ukraine.




www.express.co.uk







> The governor of the Luhansk region, north of Donetsk, said the Ukrainian army was edging closer to a key Russian defence line between the towns of Kreminna and Svatove.

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## 925boy

Beny Karachun said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/zk4bm5
> 
> Israeli soldiers in Ukraine


if they wouldnt and couldnt fight against Hamas or hezbollah, how will they fight Russian army- good luck brooo!

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## Beny Karachun

925boy said:


> if they wouldnt and couldnt fight against Hamas or hezbollah, how will they fight Russian army- good luck brooo!


Cope hard retard

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## The SC



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## Beny Karachun

925boy said:


> what is sarcastic about the reality that NATO is low on ammunition? you know i've done stand up comedy before? jokes reveal uncomfortable truths, so you are admitting the truth you are in denial of still -Ukraine will die for this matter- if NATO gets involved, man, NATO soldiers will die the same way they kiled IRaqi, Afghan, Syrian, Yemeni soldiers too! karma again?


Lol, you really believe yourself?
How many cruise missiles NATO given to Ukraine? How many laser guided bombs? how many ATACAMS? how many Spike, Hellfire ATGMs? How many MALE drones?

I'll give you the scenario of a conventional war:
NATO enters the war, launches Spike NLOS ATGMs at every Russian tank from 40 kilometers away, shoot down every piece of garbage Sukhoi that's in the air with F-22s, take out every Russian garbage S400 site with F-35s, deploy a shit ton of air defenses in Ukraine and regain back the territory Russia conquered within days as Leopard 2A7s and M1A2SEPV3 with Trophy system move forward.

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## F-22Raptor

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol, you really believe yourself?
> How many cruise missiles NATO given to Ukraine? How many laser guided bombs? how many ATACAMS? how many Spike, Hellfire ATGMs? How many MALE drones?
> 
> I'll give you the scenario of a conventional war:
> NATO enters the war, launches Spike NLOS ATGMs at every Russian tank from 40 kilometers away, shoot down every piece of garbage Sukhoi that's in the air with F-22s, take out every Russian garbage S400 site with F-35s, deploy a shit ton of air defenses in Ukraine and regain back the territory Russia conquered within days as Leopard 2A7s and M1A2SEPV3 with Trophy system move forward.



No need to respond to him, he’s been wrong over and over this entire war. And the US is nowhere near running low on anything. It’s only “low” relative to the stocks needed to carry out its war plans. In other words, US has given Ukraine equipment and ammo it doesn’t need to carry out its own war plans. It’s all surplus. 

No Abrams, no Bradley’s, no M109s, no Strykers, etc etc

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> This is a HUGE leap in air defense capability for the Ukrainians




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602741332870516736

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> No need to respond to him, he’s been wrong over and over this entire war. And the US is nowhere near running low on anything. It’s only “low” relative to the stocks needed to carry out its war plans. In other words, US has given Ukraine equipment and ammo it doesn’t need to carry out its own war plans. It’s all surplus.
> 
> No Abrams, no Bradley’s, no M109s, no Strykers, etc etc


What surprise me is that US didn't even send a lot of M113s. Those are still good, 40+ y/o, just pull from Iraq/Afghanistan early in 2010s. US had 5000 of them, estimated 1000+ surplus, and how many M113 US sent? 200.....

M113 can put anything on top and make it a potent platform, especially this







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M163_VADS 

I know for a fact US had around 500 still stored and is still being used in the Middle East today (Not by the US), I mean, 500 of these (Basically it's just M113 and M61 Vulcan cannon + radar) would probably neutralise the Drone problem Ukraine is having.

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## 925boy

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol, you really believe yourself?


no, i believe the facts. thanks for projecting your way of thinking onto me.


Beny Karachun said:


> How many cruise missiles NATO given to Ukraine?


what difference has that made in this war? low testosterone NATO, only experts at losing wars, so here we have the Ukranian chapter of that story.


Beny Karachun said:


> How many laser guided bombs?


irrelevant now


Beny Karachun said:


> how many ATACAMS?


what have ATACAMS achieved in the war today? fancy toys usually means you lose the war- saudis lost to houthis, ISrael lost to Hamas last year, and Hezbolah in 2006, another shiny toys military that got stretched by constant bombardment from hamas that it couldnt suppress - shame on your useless big for nothing military that has everything it needs except the guts to fight well and hard.


Beny Karachun said:


> how many Spike, Hellfire ATGMs? How many MALE drones?


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Beny Karachun said:


> I'll give you the scenario of a conventional war:
> NATO enters the war, launches Spike NLOS ATGMs at every Russian tank from 40 kilometers away, shoot down every piece of garbage Sukhoi that's in the air with F-22s, take out every Russian garbage S400 site with F-35s, deploy a shit ton of air defenses in Ukraine and regain back the territory Russia conquered within days as Leopard 2A7s and M1A2SEPV3 with Trophy system move forward.


you can enjoy your fake hypothetical, but lets ask this question -why cant NATO do this today??? its low on ammunition , its low on commodities, its low on allies, its low on stability, its low on riches, its low on leverage...should i keep going??
bich azz NATO will give us a million reasons why Russia is losing, but cant give us 1 good reason why it cant enter the war to finish off Russia if Russia is doing so badly...and they keep recycling the same lies about the war..hoping to get a few more people everytime to follow their narrative of the war- that shit not gonna work very soon when its obvious Ukraine is getting battered irreversibly.


Lemme go further on this now- If US enters a military conflict with Iran while this Ukraine war is happening, then the end of US as a superpower will be clearly in sight, or clearly here.

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## Vergennes

925boy said:


> no, i believe the facts. thanks for projecting your way of thinking onto me.
> 
> what difference has that made in this war? low testosterone NATO, only experts at losing wars, so here we have the Ukranian chapter of that story.
> 
> irrelevant now
> 
> what have ATACAMS achieved in the war today? fancy toys usually means you lose the war- saudis lost to houthis, ISrael lost to Hamas last year, and Hezbolah in 2006, another shiny toys military that got stretched by constant bombardment from hamas that it couldnt suppress - shame on your useless big for nothing military that has everything it needs except the guts to fight well and hard.
> 
> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> you can enjoy your fake hypothetical, but lets ask this question -why cant NATO do this today??? its low on ammunition , its low on commodities, its low on allies, its low on stability, its low on riches, its low on leverage...should i keep going??
> bich azz NATO will give us a million reasons why Russia is losing, but cant give us 1 good reason why it cant enter the war to finish off Russia if Russia is doing so badly...and they keep recycling the same lies about the war..hoping to get a few more people everytime to follow their narrative of the war- that shit not gonna work very soon when its obvious Ukraine is getting battered irreversibly.
> 
> 
> Lemme go further on this now- If US enters a military conflict with Iran while this Ukraine war is happening, then the end of US as a superpower will be clearly in sight, or clearly here.



The only leverage and deterrence the Russians have are their nuclear weapons,otherwise NATO could pulverize the Russians,seeing their amazing performance on the ground.

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## Beny Karachun

925boy said:


> no, i believe the facts. thanks for projecting your way of thinking onto me.
> 
> what difference has that made in this war? low testosterone NATO, only experts at losing wars, so here we have the Ukranian chapter of that story.
> 
> irrelevant now
> 
> what have ATACAMS achieved in the war today? fancy toys usually means you lose the war- saudis lost to houthis, ISrael lost to Hamas last year, and Hezbolah in 2006, another shiny toys military that got stretched by constant bombardment from hamas that it couldnt suppress - shame on your useless big for nothing military that has everything it needs except the guts to fight well and hard.
> 
> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> you can enjoy your fake hypothetical, but lets ask this question -why cant NATO do this today??? its low on ammunition , its low on commodities, its low on allies, its low on stability, its low on riches, its low on leverage...should i keep going??
> bich azz NATO will give us a million reasons why Russia is losing, but cant give us 1 good reason why it cant enter the war to finish off Russia if Russia is doing so badly...and they keep recycling the same lies about the war..hoping to get a few more people everytime to follow their narrative of the war- that shit not gonna work very soon when its obvious Ukraine is getting battered irreversibly.
> 
> 
> Lemme go further on this now- If US enters a military conflict with Iran while this Ukraine war is happening, then the end of US as a superpower will be clearly in sight, or clearly here.

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## PakFactor

925boy said:


> @F-22Raptor you realize Russia can replace all the thousands of military equipment that gets destroyed in Ukraine better than Ukraine can replace what RUssia destroyed of its military equipment right?



I don't know if there are enough washing machines left in Ukraine for Russia to replenish its stock.

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## 925boy

PakFactor said:


> I don't know if there are enough washing machines left in Ukraine for Russia to replenish its stock.


what do you think Iran's answer will be if Russia asks for more Shaheds now?

REmember Iran hasnt even supplied the DEADLIER and more effective Arash 2- Iran just having a lil pity for this disintegrating Ukranian military, it doesnt want to allow Russia finish it off quick.

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## Viet

925boy said:


> what do you think Iran's answer will be if Russia asks for more Shaheds now?
> 
> REmember Iran hasnt even supplied the DEADLIER and more effective Arash 2- Iran just having a lil pity for this disintegrating Ukranian military, it doesnt want to allow Russia finish it off quick.


Ah come on, those shahed drones are like 2-stroke flying bikes. they fly low, they fly slow, they pose no serious threat. Don’t you see videos where Ukraine use machine guns to shoot them down? That’s kindergarten.

Iran ballistic missiles are certainly a more serious thing. That’s why Ukraine urgently needs modern air defense from the NATO.

It’s interesting, a combination of Iran mullahs and russian chauvinists.

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## That Guy

925boy said:


> i'm giving you logical points that are getting way above you, hence you get emotional with me - no worries- i'll keep teaching, hopefully you keep learning.
> 
> Hopefully Ukraine will be fuly balkanized by mid next year - isnt it amazing how Karma came to pay US and NATO back for all their investments in breaking up other countries but that has come to bite Ukraine?
> 
> SInce Ukraine is fighting now with Babushkas in pick up trucks, i suspect Ukranian military wont be gaining back any sizeable city in East Ukraine EVER.
> 
> Karma is a b*tch, but she's the realest one of them all.
> 
> 
> its not my fault you cant keep up with the war buddy- its confusing you the same way its confusing PDF think tank guy- y'all are a bunch of emotional men with little analytical ability, so you bich at us who understand the logic of war- go read more!
> 
> nobody has to- the dead bodies of idiot Ukranian military soldiers lay in the trenches in bakhmut- UKraine couldnt even come to pick them up, thats how more soldiers died.
> 
> what is sarcastic about the reality that NATO is low on ammunition? you know i've done stand up comedy before? jokes reveal uncomfortable truths, so you are admitting the truth you are in denial of still -Ukraine will die for this matter- if NATO gets involved, man, NATO soldiers will die the same way they kiled IRaqi, Afghan, Syrian, Yemeni soldiers too! karma again?
> 
> you say this rubbish while Ukranians have to emigrate from their country in masses because they have no power or services? watch how you talk bro and show respect for what Ukranian civilians are going through.
> 
> so what? Saudis have lost, cuz they cant win- tehy are in a Ukranian! they have the best equipment- aparently, and the most money- apparently- but they cant win, which means , THEY LOST.
> 
> THe way houthis worked Saudis, its not even funny, if you try to argue for saudis you only prove you dont understand modern warfare and its realities.


No, your entire point amounted to "trust me, bro", and that's about it.

But don't let that stop you from lying. Please, continue.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

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## Viet

What happens?

FSB spy chief Alexander Bortnikow complains Ukraine terror activities in Russia. Nearly daily attack on Russia critical infrastructure by Ukraine security forces, partisans, and other groups.

Why complain? Russia doing terror in Ukraine is ok, but Ukraine doing terror in Russia is not ok?

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## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> Sad you cant see how ridiculously hateful and racist your sentiment is.
> 
> Hoping iranians freeze to death so they can feel how war is. Why? Well because of how Pakistan used ISI to fuel war in Afghanistan/Kashmir.
> 
> That is how you sound.


it's non of that ,we consider it payback , why it's no such thing when Europeans do something in another place but when it happen in Europe it's ugly and racist ? why it was not such thing when for 8 years Donbass villages were shelling by Ukraine , were was the cry then ?
you can hope , but guess what you didn't bat your eyes when NATO was busy destroying middle-east and north Afrika , that's ugly and racist double standard . then for you it was business , even you sold wmd to some countries in middle east to be used against civilian and didn't bat your eyes , no we must care if you guys have less comfort this winter ?

that's how you guys sound , that guilt trip tactic won't work here , here we have seen Europe true face in last 2-3 hundred years

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> What surprise me is that US didn't even send a lot of M113s. Those are still good, 40+ y/o, just pull from Iraq/Afghanistan early in 2010s. US had 5000 of them, estimated 1000+ surplus, and how many M113 US sent? 200.....
> 
> M113 can put anything on top and make it a potent platform, especially this
> 
> View attachment 905629
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M163_VADS
> 
> I know for a fact US had around 500 still stored and is still being used in the Middle East today (Not by the US), I mean, 500 of these (Basically it's just M113 and M61 Vulcan cannon + radar) would probably neutralise the Drone problem Ukraine is having.


I wonder if there is lack for such weapons in Ukraine ? how you think those m113 fair compare to all those BMPs that left and right being destroyed there ?
I believe what Ukraine need is more potent air defense , not transports and light armor or such system as m163 with only 1km of effective range


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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> why it's no such thing when Europeans do something in another place but when it happen in Europe it's ugly and racist ?



Again you try to justify one wrong by another.

Even worse , you hold that Ukrainians should pay the price , for what other European countries have done , simply because they happen too be European too. That is simply racist.

You are cheering a war you know is unjustified .


`~

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Again you try to justify one wrong by another.
> 
> Even worse , you hold that Ukrainians should pay the price , for what other European countries have done , simply because they happen too be European to. That is simply racist.
> 
> You are cheering a war you know is unjustified .
> 
> 
> `~


no tits not only Ukrainian and also they participated in middle-east wars and provided weapon to warring parties there 
right all Europe have less comfort not only Ukraine , didn't in Germany politicians are working limit hot water for each person in showers up to 2 minutes ?


Viet said:


> What happens?
> 
> FSB spy chief Alexander Bortnikow complains Ukraine terror activities in Russia. Nearly daily attack on Russia critical infrastructure by Ukraine security forces, partisans, and other groups.
> 
> Why complain? Russia doing terror in Ukraine is ok, but Ukraine doing terror in Russia is not ok?


Russians like the rest of Europeans want all the fun for themselves and complain if the others also try to have some fun and call them terrorist , after all if you use high-tech for attacking civilian infrastructure its legitimate military operation , if you use commando units and low tech equipment its terrorism , isn't it sound familiar to you ?


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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> I wonder if there is lack for such weapons in Ukraine ? how you think those m113 fair compare to all those BMPs that left and right being destroyed there ?
> I believe what Ukraine need is more potent air defense , not transports and light armor or such system as m163 with only 1km of effective range


Do those BMPs have a Vulcan cannon? I don't think so.
PIVADS will destroy cruise missiles and Iranian suicide drones just as well as a GEPARD would.


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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> no tits not only Ukrainian and also they participated in middle-east wars and provided weapon to warring parties there
> right all Europe have less comfort not only Ukraine , didn't in Germany politicians are working limit hot water for each person in showers up to 2 minutes ?
> 
> Russians like the rest of Europeans want all the fun for themselves and complain if the others also try to have some fun and call them terrorist , after all if you use high-tech for attacking civilian infrastructure its legitimate military operation , if you use commando units and low tech equipment its terrorism , isn't it sound familiar to you ?


If Ukraine special ops blow up military airports in Russia that’s not terror that is war. What Putin and his hooligans doing is terror they bomb everything, no difference schools or power stations.

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## TopGun786

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Says by an Israeli who runs to the nearest bomb shelter as soon as he hears the sound of an alarm for an incoming, home-made Palestinian resistance's rocket. Stop acting as a military "analyst" here. You're just spewing a hot air here, buddy.


Exactly my thoughts.

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## Beny Karachun

TopGun786 said:


> Exact my thoughts.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602963611445760003

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> I wonder if there is lack for such weapons in Ukraine ? how you think those m113 fair compare to all those BMPs that left and right being destroyed there ?
> I believe what Ukraine need is more potent air defense , not transports and light armor or such system as m163 with only 1km of effective range


M113 is at least as good as old BMP-1, if not better because again, BMP-1 cannot put different weapon platform on them, while you can put Mortar, TOW, AA system on a M113.

And there should be a lot of M113 stock that we are not using anymore, but they aren't that old that it is not serviceable. The US is still using M113 variant in Iraq back in 2010 and Afghanistan at least until 2015. You are talking about 5 to 7 years frame, 

Ukraine don't need advance system to deal with Iranian drone, bear in mind M163 uses the same M61 Vulcan on the C-RAM, which was proposed to be used on those drones, and you don't need 1 km range to intercept those drones because they are low and slow flying. They should get enough M163 for those drones and leave the NASAM, IRIS-T, S-300and other system on Russian Air or Ballistic Missile stirke.


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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Ukraine can make weapons including nukes to strike Russia. That’s not a problem at all. Within USSR Russia and Ukraine were the 2 key players of weapons manufacturing. This war has the potential it will kill off both countries eventually.



It's truth, they have nuclear plants and the technology. Ukraine was a true source of brains for the USSR military technology.

They can take the nuclear fuel of a nuclear plant and...

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## TopGun786

Beny Karachun said:


> View attachment 905708


You know what I mean? Don't you? 😜


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602910467709607937


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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> It's truth, they have nuclear plants and the technology. Ukraine was a true source of brains for the USSR military technology.
> 
> They can take the nuclear fuel of a nuclear plant and...


Ukraine giving up nuclear weapons is the dumbest ever. In exchange for worthless security assurance by Russia. That’s a hard lesson every country should learn. Never believe to other people’s peaceful shit.
.
But not too late. Ukraine still can acquire nuclear weapons. Otherwise russian rapists will return even if this war is over in one day.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602994206095691777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602990205560029185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602977021977858051

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Looks like those Geran-2/Shaheed-136 drone attacks depleted the Ukrainian air defense missiles, and Uncle Sam is now sending Patriot air defense systems and radar. That should tell you the effectiveness of those Geran-2/Shaheed-136 drone attacks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602947903353458689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602917524059951109

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602913539873804288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602779759913623553

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Hiding behind residential buildings didn't help that Ukrainian APC


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602968512980520960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602792724813455361

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Looks like those Geran-2/Shaheed-136 drone attacks depleted the Ukrainian air defense missiles, and Uncle Sam is now sending Patriot air defense systems and radar. That should tell you the effectiveness of those Geran-2/Shaheed-136 drone attacks.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602947903353458689




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602939866274299906


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Hiding behind residential buildings didn't help that Ukrainian APC
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602968512980520960
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602792724813455361



At least a month old video. Russians still desperate enough to recycle old footages,things not doing great on the battlefield.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592320998212149249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602925111920689158


----------



## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> no tits not only Ukrainian and also they participated in middle-east wars and provided weapon to warring parties there




Ukraine was part of the soviet block till 1991 , i doubt it had " provided weapon to warring parties " on any large scale , and sure not more than any other country , yours included. Sounds like a silly excuse to justify this war.




Hack-Hook said:


> right all Europe have less comfort not only Ukraine , didn't in Germany politicians are working limit hot water for each person in showers up to 2 minutes ?




Wow .

So millions of refugees , ruined cities , wounded and killed counted now by the hundred thousands , all this you are willing to cheer , because maybe , a few Europeans will get a few minutes less under a hot shower.

Have you any idea how twisted and sick that sounds ?

You usually write in a reasonable way , but someone would really have to be blinded by hate , to come up with an argument like that.

You seem to be engaged in calculation of vengeance for stuff that happened long ago. People who think like that , condemn the world to an endless cycle of war and violence.





. . .





~

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> Do those BMPs have a Vulcan cannon? I don't think so.
> PIVADS will destroy cruise missiles and Iranian suicide drones just as well as a GEPARD would.


if its in 1km of the drone or missile and there are many videos of gepard failing despite having more powerful gun and radar. and there are far fewer video of their success , if they were so successful , the Ukrainians didn't had to censure serial number on Geran-2 drones that were intercepted by Ukraine infra structure 
the point is its an m-113 with a Vulcan cannon as turret , you can do that with those BMPs



Viet said:


> If Ukraine special ops blow up military airports in Russia that’s not terror that is war. What Putin and his hooligans doing is terror they bomb everything, no difference schools or power stations.


the complain is about attack on infrastructures like oil depos of Powe planet and bridges not military airports .
at least that's my take of the news



jhungary said:


> Ukraine don't need advance system to deal with Iranian drone, bear in mind M163 uses the same M61 Vulcan on the C-RAM, which was proposed to be used on those drones, and you don't need 1 km range to intercept those drones because they are low and slow flying. They should get enough M163 for those drones and leave the NASAM, IRIS-T, S-300and other system on Russian Air or Ballistic Missile stirke.


honestly 1km is too short , for a country as vast as Ukraine

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Ukraine was part of the soviet block till 1991 , i doubt it had " provided weapon to warring parties " on any large scale , and sure not more than any other country , yours included. Sounds like a silly excuse to justify this war.


you guys fought several war with Arabs and yet you claim you doubt Soviet block and later Ukraine provide weapons to the conflict in middle east ? 



sammuel said:


> Wow .
> 
> So millions of refugees , ruined cities , wounded and killed counted now by the hundred thousands , all this you are willing to cheer , because maybe , a few Europeans will get a few minutes less under a hot shower.


you start from somewhere we host 5 - 6milion refugee under one of the harshest sanction regime in the human history and don't complain now Europeans can host some of their Ukrainian brothers , it won't be the end of the world .


sammuel said:


> You seem to be engaged in calculation of vengeance for stuff that happened long ago. People who think like that , condemn the world to an endless cycle of war and violence.


not that long many of them 20-30 years at most many just a decade or less and the Europeans never bothered to apologize for what they did . its not hatred , its just a wakeup for them to remember the atrocities of war and don't impose it on others



Viet said:


> Ukraine giving up nuclear weapons is the dumbest ever. In exchange for worthless security assurance by Russia. That’s a hard lesson every country should learn. Never believe to other people’s peaceful shit.
> .
> But not too late. Ukraine still can acquire nuclear weapons. Otherwise russian rapists will return even if this war is over in one day.


no doubt that was as dumb a move as it was possible , but building nukes probably take time and I don't believe Europeans will be happy with that moves , if it happen probably Germany , Poland and Italy, .... also want them and if that happen that would be the last nail on the coffin of NPT


----------



## Hack-Hook

BHAN85 said:


> It's truth, they have nuclear plants and the technology. Ukraine was a true source of brains for the USSR military technology.
> 
> They can take the nuclear fuel of a nuclear plant and...


reprocessing fuel rods need times and facilities that i doubt right now Ukraine possess any

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> if its in 1km of the drone or missile and there are many videos of gepard failing despite having more powerful gun and radar. and there are far fewer video of their success , if they were so successful , the Ukrainians didn't had to censure serial number on Geran-2 drones that were intercepted by Ukraine infra structure
> the point is its an m-113 with a Vulcan cannon as turret , you can do that with those BMPs
> 
> 
> the complain is about attack on infrastructures like oil depos of Powe planet and bridges not military airports .
> at least that's my take of the news
> 
> 
> honestly 1km is too short , for a country as vast as Ukraine


Where's the Gepard failing? I never saw a single video in which the Gepard failed. I did see videos of it intercepting cruise missiles.
A 20mm Vulcan cannon range isn't 1km, especially for slow Iranian drones.

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602939866274299906
> 
> 
> At least a month old video. Russians still desperate enough to recycle old footages,things not doing great on the battlefield.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592320998212149249
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602925111920689158


nonsense lies about intercepted drone numbers , if they were not lying they didn't had to obscure the drones serial numbers . and they panned out to show it was not actually intercepted by infrastructure

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## Flight of falcon

Beny Karachun said:


> View attachment 905711




WOW LGBT Israeli ......cool.

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> Where's the Gepard failing? I never saw a single video in which the Gepard failed. I did see videos of it intercepting cruise missiles.
> A 20mm Vulcan cannon range isn't 1km, especially for slow Iranian drones.


1.2km is the range of that canon if used from ground against aerial targets 
and there are ton's of video of them failing against these drones and there is a reason for that , the radar on Gepard is old and the drone have somehow less RCS than other drones , if they install more powerful radar on Gepard then maybe they have more success .


----------



## OldTwilight

bobo6661 said:


> They fear us we are the only country other than mongols that conquered them so maybe that's why To be honest i have no freaking idea why they so obsessed with us  Tru there are already K2 tanks in my town and thats like less then100 km from border... Didnt expect them to do it so fast.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602587636400635905



last time I checked , Both russian and germans divide you between them ... 
Leave NATO then talk big if you can ...

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> 1.2km is the range of that canon if used from ground against aerial targets
> and there are ton's of video of them failing against these drones and there is a reason for that , the radar on Gepard is old and the drone have somehow less RCS than other drones , if they install more powerful radar on Gepard then maybe they have more success .


Even 50cal machineguns effective range is 1.8km, 1.2km is the effective range against high speed jets not slow drones.

Nope, there are none, and don't send me some dark footage at night with nothing shown. Also this drone isn't low RCS it's easily detected.


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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> Even 50cal machineguns effective range is 1.8km, 1.2km is the effective range against high speed jets not slow drones.


the range against ground target and airborne target is different , I didn't read any thing about speed , do you have any report or article that explain the range relative to target speed

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603031593764913162



This is what the Wagner assault on Bakhmut looks like since months. @F-22Raptor @jhungary

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> the range against ground target and airborne target is different , I didn't read any thing about speed , do you have any report or article that explain the range relative to target speed











Phalanx CIWS - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Look at the Phalanx, same cannon it has 5500 meters range.
20mm APDS shells on the M163 could easily destroy a target very far away. Non-maneuvering drones flying at 150kmph are easy to hit because it's easy to lead your shots, whereas a jet flying at Mach one could turn a little bit and be hundreds of meters away from the fire prediction point.

M163 with HEIT-SD self destruct after 1800 meters or when in proximity to the target so they're closer range, but still could engage a slow drone up to 1800 meters with no problems.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603074081699627010

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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Ukraine giving up nuclear weapons is the dumbest ever. In exchange for worthless security assurance by Russia. That’s a hard lesson every country should learn. Never believe to other people’s peaceful shit.
> .
> But not too late. Ukraine still can acquire nuclear weapons. Otherwise russian rapists will return even if this war is over in one day.


Every state of this world should have at least one nuke and one ICBM, just for deterrence of bullies.

You can't attack anyone with just one ICBM, but at least it allows to avoid a free abuse from invasors.

Ukraine had hundreds of nukes in USSR times, and they gave all to Moscow, big error.

I would have saved at least a pair of nukes.


----------



## Soldier35

The Ukrainian crew of one of the artillery pieces published footage of an attempt to destroy the Russian Lancet kamikaze drone. Judging by the sound and commentary at the end of the video, the drone has reached its target.






An episode of the battle of the Russian 155th Marine Brigade in Ukraine. Russian soldiers are pushing Ukrainian units out of the village, clearing every house and basement.






In Romania, footage was filmed of sending 37 American M1117 armored vehicles to Ukraine, a total of 250 units are expected to be delivered. The M1117 armored car was adopted by the US Army in 1999, it is an all-wheel drive vehicle weighing 14.4 tons. In the military hierarchy of the US Army, the M1117 vehicle is lower than the M2 Bradley armored infantry vehicle and higher than the Hummer armored vehicle. The ceramic composite armor of the M1117 vehicle provides protection for the crew from 12.7 mm armor-piercing bullets and fragments of 155 mm shells - when they explode at a distance of more than 15 m. The bottom can withstand the detonation of explosive devices with a TNT equivalent of up to 5.4 kg. The machine was used in combat operations and received good reviews. The armament of the M1117 consists of a 40 mm Mark 19 grenade launcher, a 12.7 mm M2 Browning machine gun. The crew of the armored vehicle is three people, eight more military personnel can be placed in the troop compartment. The engine power of the M1117 armored vehicle is 260 hp. The maximum speed is 100 km/h. Power reserve - 765 km.






Footage of the combat use of the Russian Su-57 in Ukraine. In the first part of the video, the aircraft flew over Lugansk, in the second part, the Su-57 aircraft hit the positions of the Ukrainian army, the strike was filmed by a Ukrainian serviceman.






One of the Ukrainian servicemen decided to show shell casings from various military equipment that are used in Ukraine. It tells about the marking of shells and describes what they are made of.

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> Phalanx CIWS - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the Phalanx, same cannon it has 5500 meters range.
> 20mm APDS shells on the M163 could easily destroy a target very far away. Non-maneuvering drones flying at 150kmph are easy to hit because it's easy to lead your shots, whereas a jet flying at Mach one could turn a little bit and be hundreds of meters away from the fire prediction point.
> 
> M163 with HEIT-SD self destruct after 1800 meters or when in proximity to the target so they're closer range, but still could engage a slow drone up to 1800 meters with no problems.


maximum firing range is 5500m , effective firing range is 1500m


----------



## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> maximum firing range is 5500m , effective firing range is 1500m


1500m Effective against jets, cannon leading on a target flying 150kmp/h could be easily calculated and shot down from far away.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> 1500m Effective against jets, cannon leading on a target flying 150kmp/h could be easily calculated and shot down from far away.


that was built to defend against cruise missile , it was not built to be a defense against jets.
again do you have any article on the speed of targets is important in its range ?


----------



## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> that was built to defend against cruise missile , it was not built to be a defense against jets.
> again do you have any article on the speed of targets is important in its range ?











M163 VADS - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Its first operational shot down was a Syrian MiG-21 by Israel.

It's just physics, Let's say it takes 3 seconds to reach a target 5000 meters away with 20mm APDS shells, in 3 seconds a jet flying at 300 meters per second could turn 60 degrees and be around 600 meters away from the predicted interception point.
Basically - it's extremely easy to evade from that distance. However, if that jet is flying in a straight line, it's easy to predict where it would be within 3 seconds. That's why shooting down cruise missiles is far easier than shooting down jets, they fly in a straight line whereas pilots could react to ground fire and fly unpredictably. 

Same about suicide, except they're even slower, no need to lead your shots that much. And if they do maneuver, a drone flying at 45m/s and turn 60 degrees in 3 seconds would only be around 90 meters away from the predicted interception point. Now make it 3000 meter and it'll only be 30 meters away from interception point. make it 2000 meters and it'll be barely a few meters.


----------



## jhungary

Looks like Professor Michael Clarke have the same view.



jhungary said:


> If Russia is smart, they should have picked up the clue from Ukraine by now, they are doing what they are doing in Kupiansk, Kherson, Kharkiv (a lot of places started with K) to Melitopol right now, the Ukrainian had moved another 2 Brigade in the Area, they are setting a condition for another counteroffensive.



He is just 3 days too late lol


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603103943537590274

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603095789768769536

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> i'm giving you logical points that are getting way above you, hence you get emotional with me - no worries- i'll keep teaching, hopefully you keep learning.


Listen 'bro' yourslef,

May be you can explain how HIMARS levelled the places your beloved Wagner boys were in because of a stupid tactical mistake of a soldier taking a selfie. This war will be studied for decades as to how a competent , smart, brave set of people were let down by their tactics, leadership, and quality of weapons fighting WWII style doctrine in the age of information warfare.

Russia is getting attacked deeper and deeper and will have to re-position its strategic bomber forces. All so they could go 40 miles into a foreign country.

Here you go and enjoy it. Another set of Russians wiped out by precision munitions. No wait, Russians had destroyed all this HIMARS and disrupted the supply lines and put NATO on backfoot. And NATO Airforces are fully in tact while Russia is afraid to overfly Ukraine









Bombing of Putin’s Most Feared Fighters Infuriates Russia


Ukrainian authorities say the Russian military is “carefully concealing” its losses in a HIMARS strike that hit the group’s headquarters.



www.thedailybeast.com





Bombing of Putin’s Most Feared Fighters Infuriates Russia​
TOP NOTCH
Ukrainian authorities say the Russian military is “carefully concealing” its losses in a HIMARS strike that hit the group’s headquarters.



Allison Quinn​News Editor
Published Dec. 13, 2022 2:33PM ET





AFP via Getty​

The Russian mercenaries hailed by their leader as the most skilled and experienced soldiers in the war against Ukraine have gotten themselves blown up over the weekend.
Pro-Kremlin Russian media channels were the first to reveal the strike Sunday on a hotel in the occupied Luhansk region, furiously noting that “the enemy used HIMARS to hit the hotel in Kadiivka where Wagner fighters were located.”

Photos showed the building, a hotel called “Zhdanov’s Guest House,” blown to smithereens, though no details were immediately given on how many Wagner fighters were killed. Russian state-run media was largely mum on the whole affair (with the exception of a Kremlin-friendly tabloid saying the site had been targeted because the U.S. knew Wagner founder Yevgeny Prigozhin frequented the private army’s headquarters there.)
Ukrainian authorities say the Russian military is “carefully concealing” its losses in the strike. Serhiy Haidai, the Ukrainian governor of Luhansk, confirmed the strike and quipped on Telegram that “many” Wagner mercenaries would undoubtedly be absent for their next roll call.

On Tuesday, Haidai issued a statement saying “hundreds” of Wagnerites have been killed before reaching the frontline in the last week and a half, either by “‘explosions’ caused by smoking in their headquarters or their barracks.”
Meanwhile, _Bild_ reported Tuesday that a selfie taken in front of the hotel in Kadiivka may have alerted Ukraine’s military to the Wagner fighters’ whereabouts and sealed their fate. Russian media channels circulated the photo, speculating that the Russian soldier shown grinning in front of “Zhdanov’s Guest House” was none other than Pavel Prigozhin, the son of the Wagner founder, who previously said his son was serving in the ranks of the private army.
It was not immediately clear when the selfie was taken, and Prigozhin himself denied that his son had been impacted by the HIMARS strike. The Daily Beast has not independently verified the authenticity of the photo and its potential links to the bombing.
“Don’t worry, my son is fine,” the Putin-friendly businessman said in a statement Sunday.



925boy said:


> if they wouldnt and couldnt fight against Hamas or hezbollah, how will they fight Russian army- good luck brooo!


I wish Hamas had prevailed but each time they take out a building in Israel , an entire city block in Gaza is bombarded and Hamas goes back to its hole for another 2 years till they are ready to sacrifice another 500 innocent Palestenians civilians.

I don't care for Hamas, but I care for the Ghazans that have been pretty much shut down by Israel and Arabs alike. History and facts don't bear your version of reality.

But then it was your type of mentality that give an impression of military might that existed with Saddam , Qaddafi that got them kicked/murdered in their own countries. Putin unfortunately inherited the same mindset.

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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> 1.2km is the range of that canon if used from ground against aerial targets
> and there are ton's of video of them failing against these drones and there is a reason for that , the radar on Gepard is old and the drone have somehow less RCS than other drones , if they install more powerful radar on Gepard then maybe they have more success .


Pls show 3 of these tons of videos so we can be on the same page as you


----------



## The SC

Russians achieve some progress on the front-lines..

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## The SC

New Footage of Failed Ukrainian Raid on Nuclear Plant | Full Frontline Update​

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603118922059972609

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## _Nabil_

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603118922059972609


Houthies have made Patriot system a joke, let's see how Russians will perform ✌️

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603165188525809666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603166604568805376

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603165188525809666
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603166604568805376


Ukraine needs more jets to launch these from?

the next big system has to be fighter jets? Surely?


----------



## S10

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603118922059972609


The only real "game changer" was HIMARS which forced the Russians to disperse their logistics depots and increased the distance they have to ferry ammo/supplies to the front. That reduced the effectiveness of their artillery units.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Beny Karachun said:


> View attachment 905711




Coward IsraHelli soldiers crying as usual

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## Stranagor

Smart sanctions for a stupid war: The West finally gets clever about Russia


Just like how tax evasion brought down Al Capone, denying Russian ships protection and indemnity insurance could deliver a crushing economic blow to Vladimir Putin.




theconversation.com






The European Union and the United States are now targeting maritime protection and indemnity (P&I) insurance clubs to limit Russian shipping capacity and cap the price of its oil, meaning we’re finally beginning to see some smart sanctions for a stupid war.

P&I clubs are maritime insurance groups that specialize in open-ended, large-risk claims. P&I insurance is a requirement for all heavy cargo and container vessels. Under the new sanctions, European P&I clubs can no longer offer insurance to a vessel carrying Russian oil at a price higher than $60 a barrel.

Since February 2022, governments and the private sector have been imposing piecemeal sanctions against Moscow, including taking aim at the luxury items of oligarchs and Russian President Vladimir Putin’s inner circle. Yachts and jets were highly symbolic, but sanctions against them weren’t really useful.





A Russian oil tanker sails under Yavuz Sultan Selim bridge in Istanbul in March 2022 after departing from Russia’s Novorossiysk port. (AP Photo/Francisco Seco)
Past success​In 2012, the EU denied P&I insurance to Iran, effectively halting global Iranian energy exports within hours.

In 2017, I published research that pointed out that Kim Jong-un was acquiring nearly all of his most troublesome goods by sea, and recommended targeted sanctions against P&I clubs with North Korean vessels in their ranks.

Within days of the U.S. and EU imposing such sanctions, North Korea’s activities ground to halt. The regime wound up engaging in high-risk, low-reward sea-to-sea transfers to try to make ends meet.

*Now that similar sanctions are in effect against Russia, all 3,300 known Russian ships are grinding to a halt. *Some are jamming up traffic around Turkey’s Bosporus Strait and floating idly around Russia’s port city of Vladivostok.


*Putin is scrambling to purchase a “shadow fleet” of about 100 vintage end-of-life tankers to try to get Russian oil to market.* That won’t be enough to carry the Russian economy, but it could expose inroads to smuggling markets involving ports that overlook P&I insurance.

Keeping the $60 price cap on Russian oil is risky. Tempting Putin to sell oil under $60 will encourage oil smuggling in the shadows. A full P&I ban on all vessels thought to be Russian, however, would be devastating to Moscow.

Just like how tax evasion brought down Al Capone, it may be this insurance requirement that delivers a crushing economic blow to Putin.

It illustrates why governments and the private sector need to think smarter about sanctions. *Don’t sanction the target. Sanction the environment in which they operate.*

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602929275598163969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602748289216135170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602968979177365505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602974015152607232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603079731846455300

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603031593764913162
> 
> 
> 
> This is what the Wagner assault on Bakhmut looks like since months. @F-22Raptor @jhungary






Spoiler: GRAPHIC...The dead and wounded of Ukrainians litter in the Bakhmut meat grinder





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603134550384603136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603082860860444672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603116581181132800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601268398855704578





Stranagor said:


> Smart sanctions for a stupid war: The West finally gets clever about Russia
> 
> 
> Just like how tax evasion brought down Al Capone, denying Russian ships protection and indemnity insurance could deliver a crushing economic blow to Vladimir Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theconversation.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The European Union and the United States are now targeting maritime protection and indemnity (P&I) insurance clubs to limit Russian shipping capacity and cap the price of its oil, meaning we’re finally beginning to see some smart sanctions for a stupid war.
> 
> P&I clubs are maritime insurance groups that specialize in open-ended, large-risk claims. P&I insurance is a requirement for all heavy cargo and container vessels. Under the new sanctions, European P&I clubs can no longer offer insurance to a vessel carrying Russian oil at a price higher than $60 a barrel.
> 
> Since February 2022, governments and the private sector have been imposing piecemeal sanctions against Moscow, including taking aim at the luxury items of oligarchs and Russian President Vladimir Putin’s inner circle. Yachts and jets were highly symbolic, but sanctions against them weren’t really useful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Russian oil tanker sails under Yavuz Sultan Selim bridge in Istanbul in March 2022 after departing from Russia’s Novorossiysk port. (AP Photo/Francisco Seco)
> Past success​In 2012, the EU denied P&I insurance to Iran, effectively halting global Iranian energy exports within hours.
> 
> In 2017, I published research that pointed out that Kim Jong-un was acquiring nearly all of his most troublesome goods by sea, and recommended targeted sanctions against P&I clubs with North Korean vessels in their ranks.
> 
> Within days of the U.S. and EU imposing such sanctions, North Korea’s activities ground to halt. The regime wound up engaging in high-risk, low-reward sea-to-sea transfers to try to make ends meet.
> 
> *Now that similar sanctions are in effect against Russia, all 3,300 known Russian ships are grinding to a halt. *Some are jamming up traffic around Turkey’s Bosporus Strait and floating idly around Russia’s port city of Vladivostok.
> 
> 
> *Putin is scrambling to purchase a “shadow fleet” of about 100 vintage end-of-life tankers to try to get Russian oil to market.* That won’t be enough to carry the Russian economy, but it could expose inroads to smuggling markets involving ports that overlook P&I insurance.
> 
> Keeping the $60 price cap on Russian oil is risky. Tempting Putin to sell oil under $60 will encourage oil smuggling in the shadows. A full P&I ban on all vessels thought to be Russian, however, would be devastating to Moscow.
> 
> Just like how tax evasion brought down Al Capone, it may be this insurance requirement that delivers a crushing economic blow to Putin.
> 
> It illustrates why governments and the private sector need to think smarter about sanctions. *Don’t sanction the target. Sanction the environment in which they operate.*




What if Russians insured their own vessels and also other ships who would carry the Russian oil? Every country has their own national insurance companies that usually cover their govt and private-owned vessels' insurance needs. Using the Western-based insurance companies as a weapon against Russia will really backfire, as that would make many of their insured customers to seek business elsewhere. If anything, the long-term repercussions of these stupid sanctions will be felt in the West.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603165603371446273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603079789002330112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603074599750864901

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603001143575076868

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## Hack-Hook

aviator_fan said:


> Pls show 3 of these tons of videos so we can be on the same page as you


didn't know you guys memory have so short span .
shame on you , you probably have 10 time my internet speed and don't have to use vpn to find videos and yet i have to find the videos for you and funny part they all were post in this thread and discussed here








Iran Shahid-136 drone causing havoc to UAF. Multiple Gepard were activated but failed to intercept it... - Latest News


Watch the video and join the fun convo with 9GAG community




9gag.com










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588616578383613952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582863719905734657








During the night a German donated Gepard is growling at Iranian Shahed 136 drones over Odesa with its 35mm canon.


CombatFootage




www.redd.tube








go to Iran section there is a thread called 
Shahed-136 - Tracking usage & expanding understanding.​
now show me videos of gepard intercepting Geran-2

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## The SC

The moment of the bombing of the Republican Palace in Kiev, the capital of Ukraine and Zelensky's escape. Video of the Russia-Ukraine war..

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## khansaheeb

Zelensky asks G7 to maintain support for Ukraine next year, outlines steps for securing peace


The Group of Seven leaders pledged "unwavering support" to Ukraine by promising assistance with military and air defense systems.




www.cnn.com





2:09 p.m. ET, December 12, 2022
Biden: US will continue "sending material" to Ukraine, but not troops​From CNN's DJ Judd and Betsy Klein

US President Joe Biden said Monday that there are no plans to send US troops to Ukraine.
“Are we sending troops to Ukraine? No, we’re sending material, like we have, millions of dollars,” Biden told reporters traveling with him in Virginia following a question about whether his administration is planning on sending to troops to Ukraine.
In November, the Biden administration called on Congress for additional funding to continue to support Ukraine.
Office of Management and Budget Director Shalanda Young sent a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi detailing a $37.7 billion request for Ukraine aid.
The Ukraine request is spread across four US government departments, according to a fact sheet shared with CNN. Young wrote to Pelosi that the request would “ensure Ukraine has the funding, weapons, and support it needs to defend itself, and that vulnerable people continue to receive lifesaving aid. The request also addresses the critical global food and energy shortages caused by Russia’s invasion.”
It includes $21.7 for the Department of Defense that will be spent on “equipment for Ukraine, replenishment of Department of Defense stocks, and for continued military, intelligence and other defense support,” $14.5 billion for the State Department for “direct budget support to Ukraine, critical war time investments, security assistance, to strengthen global food security, and for humanitarian assistance,” $626 million for the Department of Energy “for nuclear security support to Ukraine and for modernizing the Strategic Petroleum Reserve,” and $900 million for the Department of Health and Human Services “to provide standard assistance health care and support services to Ukrainian parolees,” per the fact sheet.









Pentagon 'green lights' Ukrainian strikes on Russia: The Times


British daily The Times writes that the Pentagon not only implicitly allowed Ukraine to drone-strike Russian land, but there are also rising prospects that the US will provide long-range weapons to Kiev.




english.almayadeen.net

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603291218024226816

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1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603280454580404225

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603119558101012480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603306392965840896
"joint appeal"? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603306392965840896


----------



## Viet

super smart russians

They build trenches no different to WW1.

But in today’s war satellites and drones see everything.

Nothing to hide










Defenses Carved Into the Earth


Russia is building a vast network of trenches, traps and obstacles to slow Ukraine’s momentum. Will it work?



www.nytimes.com


----------



## aviator_fan

_Nabil_ said:


> Houthies have made Patriot system a joke, let's see how Russians will perform ✌️


Every launch over UAE intercepted and destroyed. Of all Houthi missiles targeting Khamis Mushayt airbase, not a single one hit the base. I am not a Raytheon shareholder but I stop spreading BS news from fake sources. 

Patriot is also not the answer to everything, but it can protect the capital and maybe one other city. 

As for Russian performance, it will continue to be the the joke that it is: no aerial supremacy, a special operation that mobilizes the general population, and its strategic bombers have to be repositioned for the first time in history to bases further inside Russia.



Hack-Hook said:


> didn't know you guys memory have so short span .
> shame on you , you probably have 10 time my internet speed and don't have to use vpn to find videos and yet i have to find the videos for you and funny part they all were post in this thread and discussed here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran Shahid-136 drone causing havoc to UAF. Multiple Gepard were activated but failed to intercept it... - Latest News
> 
> 
> Watch the video and join the fun convo with 9GAG community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9gag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588616578383613952
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582863719905734657
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the night a German donated Gepard is growling at Iranian Shahed 136 drones over Odesa with its 35mm canon.
> 
> 
> CombatFootage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.redd.tube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> go to Iran section there is a thread called
> Shahed-136 - Tracking usage & expanding understanding.​
> now show me videos of gepard intercepting Geran-2


This forum is not Iranian Defense Forum where the word of the Revolutionary Guard is the word of God. So yes if you make assertions than share the videos. Unlike you, I have a real job and I don't spend hours trolling the youtube videos, regardless of internet speed. The monetary cost of time wasted is not recoverable.

You ahve shared the video, and now I have them. Your sarcasm and attitude aside (may be because you have a slow internet you are bitter about that), I thank you for sharing the videos so I can see and possibly believe you.

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603291218024226816


guess those are the brave russians 

and there is no border with germany now  tru from 2020 they started to make covid test on border no idea if it still goes






guess next thing we hear is about polish running to belarus ... with this video






and thats how crossing the border looks like 2 months ago so guess no covid tests anymore 🤷‍♂️







so guess your footage ether old of after some accident ... so basically pure propaganda pile of smelly sh..

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> didn't know you guys memory have so short span .
> shame on you , you probably have 10 time my internet speed and don't have to use vpn to find videos and yet i have to find the videos for you and funny part they all were post in this thread and discussed here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran Shahid-136 drone causing havoc to UAF. Multiple Gepard were activated but failed to intercept it... - Latest News
> 
> 
> Watch the video and join the fun convo with 9GAG community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9gag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588616578383613952
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582863719905734657
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the night a German donated Gepard is growling at Iranian Shahed 136 drones over Odesa with its 35mm canon.
> 
> 
> CombatFootage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.redd.tube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> go to Iran section there is a thread called
> Shahed-136 - Tracking usage & expanding understanding.​
> now show me videos of gepard intercepting Geran-2


Again, nothing that shows the Gepard missing, if anything it's more likely the drone broke its wings and fell down.


----------



## Hack-Hook

aviator_fan said:


> This forum is not Iranian Defense Forum where the word of the Revolutionary Guard is the word of God. So yes if you make assertions than share the videos. Unlike you, I have a real job and I don't spend hours trolling the youtube videos, regardless of internet speed. The monetary cost of time wasted is not recoverable.
> 
> You ahve shared the video, and now I have them. Your sarcasm and attitude aside (may be because you have a slow internet you are bitter about that), I thank you for sharing the videos so I can see and possibly believe you.


so you think so , those link were posted at least twice herfe and for each of them there was a discussion on this forum.
now this raise the question , how many times a video must be post here so people don't ask about them again.
now what about those Gepard Videos destroying the drones , according to Ukraine they intercept at least 15 of the drones on daily bases . please show us interception videos and pleas we are talking about Gepard so no Buk or Manpad video


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Coward IsraHelli soldiers crying as usual
> 
> View attachment 905872
> View attachment 905874


Were good enough to kick Arab Muslims every time when Israel survival was dependent.
And Arabs enslaved weak Black Africans (much longer and much more brutal than badass Whities).
LOL
How is it going in Starvemalia?
They can be lucky that Murricans didn't flattened the place and had a weak whimpy whiny President back then who didn't want to use Apache and AC-130 on the market places where yelling masses assembled. 




 without a doubt.
The way to deal with people who:
are going with Partisans, even when they themselves are unarmed
let them use even without force as human shield

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Spoiler: GRAPHIC...The dead and wounded of Ukrainians litter in the Bakhmut meat grinder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603134550384603136
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603082860860444672
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603116581181132800
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601268398855704578
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if Russians insured their own vessels and also other ships who would carry the Russian oil? Every country has their own national insurance companies that usually cover their govt and private-owned vessels' insurance needs. Using the Western-based insurance companies as a weapon against Russia will really backfire, as that would make many of their insured customers to seek business elsewhere. If anything, the long-term repercussions of these stupid sanctions will be felt in the West.


Good luck with that.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603381576661868546
3 days special military operation doing great it seems.

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## jhungary

Russian just gone full retard......






They do know Patriot Missile was designed to shoot down Russian Aircraft, right?? That is the exact point why they are getting Patriot Missile......

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> Again, nothing that shows the Gepard missing, if anything it's more likely the drone broke its wings and fell down.


well , if we want to go into the realm of likely and probably.
the fact that Ukraine loosing electricity grid left and right is talking for itself . unless they all fall on electricity infrastructure after interception .

and early when the use of the drone start there was video of it being hit by AA gun , it didn't loose its wing and fall, it continued its flight , I don't say the drone probably didn't miss its target at the end , but it didn't fall out of sky right away


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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What if Russians insured their own vessels and also other ships who would carry the Russian oil? Every country has their own national insurance companies that usually cover their govt and private-owned vessels' insurance needs. Using the Western-based insurance companies as a weapon against Russia will really backfire, as that would make many of their insured customers to seek business elsewhere. If anything, the long-term repercussions of these stupid sanctions will be felt in the West.


Are you for real??

That is the same as saying "Trust Me Bro, I have them" when people ask you where you got your indemnity from.

You cannot insure your own vessel, it HAD to go thru a third party escrow. That is the entire purpose of having insurance, that is in case you cannot pay for the damages you had caused. And no one will allow you to dock if you don't have P&I

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Are you for real??
> 
> That is the same as saying "Trust Me Bro, I have them" when people ask you where you got your indemnity from.
> 
> You cannot insure your own vessel, it HAD to go thru a third party escrow. That is the entire purpose of having insurance, that is in case you cannot pay for the damages you had caused. And no one will allow you to dock if you don't have P&I


Putin will insure himself that makes sense. In reality Russia is a pariah, an untrusted business partner. Even Putin manages to assemble own oil tankers, own insurance, which is almost impossible now for Russia, nobody in the world, except hardcore supporters, will let russian oil tankers to pass their waters.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603185565255335938

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## Hassan Al-Somal

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Were good enough to kick Arab Muslims every time when Israel survival was dependent.
> And Arabs enslaved weak Black Africans (much longer and much more brutal than badass Whities).
> LOL



Says by the German whose whole country is under occupation since 1945. Listen punk, Arabs and Africans at least hold their head high and did whatever they could to kick the colonialists out. This is what is happening in the Holy Land today: Arab Muslims in Palestine are fighting with bare hands while you Germans pay billions of USD to Israel every year due to never proven event called "Holohaux". lol The entire West is a Zionist plantation. A few million Jews controlled you, and controlled you like a fickle.

Again, Germany is under occupation since 1945. Most of the German women were raped by the Soviet and Western allies. Your leaders were hanged. And today, America destroyed your pipeline while German leaders hold their down and can't lift it up. All you do is listen what American leaders tell you to do so and go along with it.

As for slavery, I am a Somali and was never subjected to. We kicked the arse of every European who came to our shore, starting from the Portugeuse to the British to the French.



reflecthofgeismar said:


> How is it going in Starvemalia?
> They can be lucky that Murricans didn't flattened the place and had a weak whimpy whiny President back then who didn't want to use Apache and AC-130 on the market places where yelling masses assembled.





reflecthofgeismar said:


> without a doubt.
> The way to deal with people who:
> are going with Partisans, even when they themselves are unarmed
> let them use even without force as human shield



This is all I remember in that event. 👇 US Secretary of Defense Lee Aspin quit as a result of what the General Aidid forces did in 1993.






Now, let us know when you subdued Germans get your freedom back from the Americans and the British. He is talking about events in the past when his whole country and women are f\uck around by the Americans to the rest of the West Europeans to the asylum seekers. Every body f\ucks the Germans and all these goons do is to keep their head down because they lost their freedom in 1945. F\ck you.

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## reflecthofgeismar

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Were good enough to kick Arab Muslims every time when Israel survival was dependent.
> And Arabs enslaved weak Black Africans (much longer and much more brutal than badass Whities).
> LOL
> How is it going in Starvemalia?
> They can be lucky that Murricans didn't flattened the place and had a weak whimpy whiny President back then who didn't want to use Apache and AC-130 on the market places where yelling masses assembled.









Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Says by the German whose whole country is under occupation since 1945. Listen punk, Arabs and Africans at least hold their head high and did whatever they could to kick the colonialists out. This is what is happening in the Holy Land today: Arab Muslims in Palestine are fighting with bare hands while you Germans pay billions of USD to Israel every year due to never proven event called "Holohaux". lol The entire West is a Zionist plantation. A few million Jews controlled you, and controlled you like a fickle.
> 
> Again, Germany is under occupation since 1945. Most of the German women were raped by the Soviet and Western allies. Your leaders were hanged. And today, America destroyed your pipeline while German leaders hold their down and can't lift it up. All you do is what American leaders tell you to do so.
> 
> As for slavery, I am a Somali and was never subjected to. We kicked the arse of every European who came to our shore, starting from the Portugeuse to the British to the French.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is all I remember in that event. 👇 US Secretary of Defense Lee Aspin quit as a result of what the General Aidid forces did in 1993.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, let us know when you subdued Germans get your freedom back from the Americans and the British. He is talking about events in the past when his whole country and women are f\uck around by the Americans to the rest of the West Europeans to the asylum seekers. Every body f\ucks the Germans and all these goons do is to keep their head down because they lost their freedom in 1945. F\ck you.



Look nobody, not even Jews/Israelis (at least the MAJORITY) DENIES that there were criminal acts/warcrimes committed by Jews against Arabs.
And all Jews/Israelis are innocent and all Arabs/Muslims/Martians are bad.
NO.
But the opposite is NOT true too.
Majority of Jews/Israelis say "This/That was a jewish Criminal/War Criminal, we don't like that."
HAMAS and organizations like them are PAYING for killing jewish Children and pregnant women. WTF...
$ get by hippity hoppity terror-support on your property EUROPEAN/US based foundations.
Jews BOUGHT land from Ottoman Empire and made it productive.
ARABS ATTACKED the Kikes for being successful and declaring of own country (only BOUGHT AREA) and wanted to grab the NOW productive areas, Jews kicked the arses of Muslims. Took more land in war.
Look, Israelis could kill off ALL so called Palestinians in 2 weeks, IF they want too.
Arab Palestinians, except in Gaza and the other open air prison (self selected through "democratic" "elections" (with a kalash on their head when they are against future rulers IF they were against them), live in Israel, as Israeli Citizen BETTER than 90% of Muslims in NON European Countries/America. That's funny eh?
Reverse? Why were Jews in islamic states brutalized when ISRAELIS won against Arab Armies back then?
Surely they moved to Israel ...
No, Germany, South Korea, Japan are very productive countries, all had wars against/with Murricans.
At least they have American influence (logical) but why are all "certain" countries which had EXACTLY the SAME opportunities and MUCH LESS aggressive Murricans (If Germans had 1945 done what so called "resistance" did to US troopers, Americans had shoot 100 German male citizen for every dead GI) are still shit holes?
Can you explain it to me?
So, the world isn't good & bad, there are just fortunates and unfortunates. And everybody is his own smith.
Without US and EU Aid Arabs would starve to a much lower population level.
Africans too!
There is NO reason to feed unproductive people if their only product is making more low iq babies who need to be fed.
They can't even buy your produced articles because they have still no money, no matter how much money you pump into their failed states bc they are corrupt to the core.

How much money do Germans pump into Israel?
Peanuts compared to YEARLY 50 Billion for so called 2 Million analphabets from 3rd world!
Germans did subsidize the company which produce Ships for Israel, you can't do that directly in Germany (Pacifist faggot society), so Jews get German money to buy German Ships. 
It's like American aid, 74-76% go directly into American companies because Jews are forced to spend this amount (3/4) on American MADE products.
And on the rest (1/4) Americans profit too from Jewish technologies and they have a word here and there in technology aspects when Jews wanna sell something to other parties US says "no".
And US is using Israel to sell weapons to states which Americans can't directly.

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I LIKE TO EDIT MESSAGES IM DUM DUM. Listen punk, Arabs and Africans at least hold their head high and did whatever they could to kick the colonialists out. This is what is happening in the Holy Land today: Arab Muslims in Palestine are fighting with bare hands while you Germans pay billions of USD to Israel every year due to never proven event called "Holohaux". lol The entire West is a Zionist plantation. A few million Jews controlled you, and controlled you like a fickle.
> 
> Again, Germany is under occupation since 1945. Most of the German women were raped by the Soviet and Western allies. Your leaders were hanged. And today, America destroyed your pipeline while German leaders hold their down and can't lift it up. All you do is listen what American leaders tell you to do so and go along with it.
> 
> As for slavery, I am a Somali and was never subjected to. We kicked the arse of every European who came to our shore, starting from the Portugeuse to the British to the French.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is all I remember in that event. 👇 US Secretary of Defense Lee Aspin quit as a result of what the General Aidid forces did in 1993.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, let us know when you subdued Germans get your freedom back from the Americans and the British. He is talking about events in the past when his whole country and women are f\uck around by the Americans to the rest of the West Europeans to the asylum seekers. Every body f\ucks the Germans and all these goons do is to keep their head down because they lost their freedom in 1945. F\ck you. IM DUMB MORON


If you make ss make it of someones post not someones Quote  Becose thats not any evidence check what you siad in your quote, a tip for you


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## Vergennes

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Look nobody, not even Jews/Israelis (at least the MAJORITY) DENIES that there were criminal acts/warcrimes committed by Jews against Arabs.
> And all Jews/Israelis are innocent and all Arabs/Muslims/Martians are bad.
> NO.
> But the opposite is NOT true too.
> Majority of Jews/Israelis say "This/That was a jewish Criminal/War Criminal, we don't like that."
> HAMAS and organizations like them are PAYING for killing jewish Children and pregnant women. WTF...
> $ get by hippity hoppity terror-support on your property EUROPEAN/US based foundations.
> Jews BOUGHT land from Ottoman Empire and made it productive.
> ARABS ATTACKED the Kikes for being successful and declaring of own country (only BOUGHT AREA) and wanted to grab the NOW productive areas, Jews kicked the arses of Muslims. Took more land in war.
> Look, Israelis could kill off ALL so called Palestinians in 2 weeks, IF they want too.
> Arab Palestinians, except in Gaza and the other open air prison (self selected through "democratic" "elections" (with a kalash on their head when they are against future rulers IF they were against them), live in Israel, as Israeli Citizen BETTER than 90% of Muslims in NON European Countries/America. That's funny eh?
> Reverse? Why were Jews in islamic states brutalized when ISRAELIS won against Arab Armies back then?
> Surely they moved to Israel ...
> No, Germany, South Korea, Japan are very productive countries, all had wars against/with Murricans.
> At least they have American influence (logical) but why are all "certain" countries which had EXACTLY the SAME opportunities and MUCH LESS aggressive Murricans (If Germans had 1945 done what so called "resistance" did to US troopers, Americans had shoot 100 German male citizen for every dead GI) are still shit holes?
> Can you explain it to me?
> So, the world isn't good & bad, there are just fortunates and unfortunates. And everybody is his own smith.
> Without US and EU Aid Arabs would starve to a much lower population level.
> Africans too!
> There is NO reason to feed unproductive people if their only product is making more low iq babies who need to be fed.
> They can't even buy your produced articles because they have still no money, no matter how much money you pump into their failed states bc they are corrupt to the core.
> 
> How much money do Germans pump into Israel?
> Peanuts compared to YEARLY 50 Billion for so called 2 Million analphabets from 3rd world!
> Germans did subsidize the company which produce Ships for Israel, you can't do that directly in Germany (Pacifist faggot society), so Jews get German money to buy German Ships.
> It's like American aid, 74-76% go directly into American companies because Jews are forced to spend this amount (3/4) on American MADE products.
> And on the rest (1/4) Americans profit too from Jewish technologies and they have a word here and there in technology aspects when Jews wanna sell something to other parties US says "no".
> And US is using Israel to sell weapons to states which Americans can't directly.



dude living in the US but ranting about the western world every days,probably he should go to Russia but will quickly change mind after seeing how his beloved Russians will treat the likes of him.

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## reflecthofgeismar

Vergennes said:


> dude living in the US but ranting about the western world every days,probably he should go to Russia but will quickly change mind after seeing how his beloved Russians will treat the likes of him.



Well, he should sit in African/Arab Prison, then in Israeli.
He would become a Zionist and even the forum Jews would tell him to calm down...


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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> Are you for real??
> 
> That is the same as saying "Trust Me Bro, I have them" when people ask you where you got your indemnity from.
> 
> You cannot insure your own vessel, it HAD to go thru a third party escrow. That is the entire purpose of having insurance, that is in case you cannot pay for the damages you had caused. And no one will allow you to dock if you don't have P&I




Seriously, if some central banks are bypassing the SWIFT system and directly dealing with SPFS and CHIPS, how long do you think it'll take them to bypass the P&I insurance racket?

The West tried to use the P&I against Iran and DPRK, but both countries found a way to circumvent it. How do you think it'll affect the Russians when they have the support of China and other countries?

Look, using the P&I is a desperate way of trying to hurt Russia when the West's military aid to Ukraine is not bearing fruits. And the reality that the Western leaders are avoiding to accept is the inevitable outcome of this war: The end of *Unipolar* world where the West had the all the tools to manipulate and abuse other countries, and the start of the *Multipolar* world where others have similar systems in place and don't need the West subjugating them. 

You and many Westerners can dance around it but this ship has already sailed, and China, Russia, Iran, DPRK, and others have made sure they broke through all of the chains that the Zionist plantation called West placed on the rest of humanity. Good riddance to the end of the usury-based evil system that you all called Unipolar world.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> dude living in the US but ranting about the western world every days,probably he should go to Russia but will quickly change mind after seeing how his beloved Russians will treat the likes of him.




Bish, I live in my country and don't live in the Zionist plantation called the West.

Second, even if someone lives in the West, they can't form their own individual opinions about what is happening around the world? How many Americans did you see expressing the same or almost the same views that I express here? Do you think everyone in the West is an arse-kisser like you? Get lost, you arse-hole.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Bish, I live in my country and don't live in the Zionist plantation called the West.
> 
> Second, even if someone lives in the West, they can't form their own individual opinions about what is happening around the world? How many Americans did you see expressing the same or almost the same views that I express here? Do you think everyone in the West is an arse-kisser like you? Get lost, you arse-hole.



Yes you don't live in the west you're using a VPN i forgot sorry,LMAO.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Look nobody, not even Jews/Israelis (at least the MAJORITY) DENIES that there were criminal acts/warcrimes committed by Jews against Arabs.
> And all Jews/Israelis are innocent and all Arabs/Muslims/Martians are bad.
> NO.
> But the opposite is NOT true too.
> Majority of Jews/Israelis say "This/That was a jewish Criminal/War Criminal, we don't like that."



Since when did I say anything against Jews in general?



reflecthofgeismar said:


> Jews BOUGHT land from Ottoman Empire and made it productive.



Jews never bought anything from the Ottoman empire. At the time you were coming in droves into the Holy Land, the Ottoman empire were preoccupied with fighting in Eastern and Eastern Europe, Asia, and Middle East. The Ottoman empire was in weaker position at the time that they could not pay attention to your shenanigans. Even the last Caliph of the Ottoman empire refused to sell the land to you - Khazar invaders. Carrying a false narrative is not gonna fly with us, you fool.



reflecthofgeismar said:


> ARABS ATTACKED the Kikes for being successful and declaring of own country (only BOUGHT AREA) and wanted to grab the NOW productive areas, Jews kicked the arses of Muslims. Took more land in war.
> Look, Israelis could kill off ALL so called Palestinians in 2 weeks, IF they want too.
> Arab Palestinians, except in Gaza and the other open air prison (self selected through "democratic" "elections" (with a kalash on their head when they are against future rulers IF they were against them), live in Israel, as Israeli Citizen BETTER than 90% of Muslims in NON European Countries/America. That's funny eh?



Israel is classified as an apartheid state. Today, it is the only state on earth that uproots the indigenous people of Palestine from their ancestral homeland, and no amount of manufacturing history would change that fact. You have your narrative and we have ours.

We have a strong faith, and your brutality was foretold to us. Your return to the Holy Land were foretold to us. And the people whose back you would return were foretold to us. And the end of your evil adventure was foretold us. Make no mistake about it: There will be no Israel when the Freemasonry empire whose back you're riding, seizes to exist; and its end will come through a divine intervention. We have our belief and you have yours, and we'll see whose faith prevails at the end.



reflecthofgeismar said:


> Reverse? Why were Jews in islamic states brutalized when ISRAELIS won against Arab Armies back then?
> Surely they moved to Israel ...



MOSSAD were bombing Jews quarters in the Arab world in order to get them to move to the Holy Land. There was no a single government in the Arab world who harmed its Jewish citizens. As usual, you can create your lies, but facts are on the otherwise.



reflecthofgeismar said:


> No, Germany, South Korea, Japan are very productive countries, all had wars against/with Murricans.
> At least they have American influence (logical) but why are all "certain" countries which had EXACTLY the SAME opportunities and MUCH LESS aggressive Murricans (If Germans had 1945 done what so called "resistance" did to US troopers, Americans had shoot 100 German male citizen for every dead GI) are still shit holes?
> Can you explain it to me?
> So, the world isn't good & bad, there are just fortunates and unfortunates. And everybody is his own smith.
> Without US and EU Aid Arabs would starve to a much lower population level.
> Africans too!



Ask the World Bank and IMF, plus endless Western invasions, why certain countries are "shitholes" as you put it. You (Zionist-controlled West) invaded their countries, unleash other countries on them, loot their resources, imposed incompetent dictators on them, and then call them "shitholes". F/ck you and your evil crocodile tears.



reflecthofgeismar said:


> There is NO reason to feed unproductive people if their only product is making more low iq babies who need to be fed.
> They can't even buy your produced articles because they have still no money, no matter how much money you pump into their failed states bc they are corrupt to the core.



Who is asking you to feed them? They were at peace, living their lives until you showed up with your invasions, arm-twisting, and endless wars and coups. If the evil West wasn't invading their land, we wouldn't be dealing with this situation. *The West creates mayhem and then acts as "saviors". Evil m\fers.*



reflecthofgeismar said:


> How much money do Germans pump into Israel?
> Peanuts compared to YEARLY 50 Billion for so called 2 Million analphabets from 3rd world!
> Germans did subsidize the company which produce Ships for Israel, you can't do that directly in Germany (Pacifist faggot society), so Jews get German money to buy German Ships.
> It's like American aid, 74-76% go directly into American companies because Jews are forced to spend this amount (3/4) on American MADE products.
> And on the rest (1/4) Americans profit too from Jewish technologies and they have a word here and there in technology aspects when Jews wanna sell something to other parties US says "no".
> And US is using Israel to sell weapons to states which Americans can't directly.



Remove the American and European aid and protection of Israel, and we'll see how long this evil enterprise called Israel lasts.

As for Germans, I hope German people understand how much pain and suffering that you (Zionists) inflicted upon them through your fake "Holohaux" charge. If there is any truth to those "atrocities", why do people go to jail in EU if they questioned it? I've never seen any where elsse in the world where if people question an event that happened in the past, they immediately go to jail. It is like a racket where the racketeer doesn't want people to find out the truth. So he sends everyone who questions it to jail.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> your fake "Holohaux" charge. If there is any truth to those "atrocities", why do people go to jail in EU if they questioned it? I've never seen any where elsse in the world where if people question an event that happened in the past, they immediately go to jail. It is like a racket where the racketeer doesn't want people to find out the truth. So he sends everyone who questions it to jail.



Oohh a holocaust denier as well.

Suggested reading :









The Holocaust - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## jamahir

aviator_fan said:


> Not sitting in a tank top like a loser in his underwear (assuming you can afford it) forwarding lies out of bitterness towards the fact Europeans are not suffering Russians are.



Actually you are quite wrong. 

This is today's article :


> Britons worry about running out of food, keeping warm: survey​Reuters / Dec 15, 2022, 16:34 IST
> 
> 
> LONDON: One in six people in Britain are worried about running out of food and more cannot keep warm enough in their own homes, according to an official survey on Thursday that also showed a widespread sense of social and economic failings.
> The Office for National Statistics said 16% of people were worried or very worried about their food running out before having money to buy more. That situation is already a reality for 6% of people.
> 
> Some 23% of people said they were unable to keep comfortably warm in their own homes, whether occasionally or always.
> 
> While other European countries are similarly grappling with double-digit inflation and soaring energy bills after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Britain has the continent's oldest and most energy-inefficient housing stock, with government schemes to improve insulation slashed in the last decade.
> 
> The ONS figures chime with widespread dissatisfaction among British people about the direction of one of the world's largest economies. Demand for food banks has exploded over the last decade, and workers are increasingly going on strike.
> 
> Polling firm Ipsos last week said 62% of the public think the country is heading the wrong way, compared with a 14% who think it is moving the right way - a challenge for new Conservative Prime Minister Rishi Sunak who says he is making tough decisions needed to put the economy back on track.
> 
> The opposition Labour Party says the problems reflect decisions made during the Conservatives' 12 years in power.
> 
> The ONS said 78% of people felt frustrated that Britain's society was not as it should be, while 74% said they were afraid that things will go wrong in society.
> The survey, conducted between Nov. 22 and Dec. 4, had 2,524 respondents.



There are protests across other parts of Europe.

From France from October :


> Leftist politicians call for French to take to the streets on Sunday​A march ‘against the high cost of living and climate inaction’ is set to take place on Sunday in Paris, with organisers hoping to pile pressure on the government ahead of a series of debates on controversial issues.
> 
> Published: 14 October 2022 12:33 CEST
> Updated: 16 October 2022 08:15 CEST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Photo by Nicolas TUCAT / AFP)
> 
> Police are expecting around 30,000 people to attend, with one source saying they feared problems from hard-left troublemakers. “The organiser has been warned of these fears,” said the official.
> 
> The march was called back in July by Jean-Luc Mélenchon, leader of the hard-left La France Insoumise.
> 
> He has made the protest something of a pet project over the past few weeks and called on unions and colleagues in the _Nouvelle Union populaire écologique et sociale_ (Nupes) alliance to back his plans.
> 
> However on Wednesday, LFI MP Alexis Corbière was asked for a projected ballpark figure of expected protesters. He sidestepped the question, admitting concern that the final figures would be ‘a disappointment’.
> 
> *READ ALSO French unions call for ‘national strike day’ in ongoing battle with government*
> 
> An unnamed LFI official told Le Parisien: “It’s complicated to put a million people in the street (…) We have no idea what we can mobilise in the Paris region.”
> 
> The long-planned march comes amid growing social tension over the government’s use of strike-breaking powers, and plans to reform the pension system. A one-day strike is called for Tuesday, October 18th.
> Four days before the planned protest, Nupes activists relaunched their call to march on social networks with the hashtag #Tufaisquoile16.
> 
> They have also chartered dozens of buses to bring as many people as possible to Paris for the march from Place de la Nation to the Bastille. Bus tickets cost between €5 and €50, based on income.
> 
> There is some support for the day of protest against pension and unemployment reforms, the Macron government’s expected budget plans, and climate change issues. Organisers have the backing of some 700 trade unionists and associations, 600 student organisations and a number of well-known French faces – including new Nobel literature laureate Annie Ernaux. But confirmed figures are currently well down on great expectations.
> 
> The march begins at 2pm in the Place de la Nation and heads along a 2km route before finishing in the Place de la Bastille. Some roads along the route will close and Metro stations in the area may also close while the march is underway, although lines will continue to run.
> 
> AFP/The Localben.mcpartland@thelocal.com@mcpben



But our NATO propagandists here from Europe like @Vergennes ( from France, with a "We lub Zelensky" flag ), @Ali_Baba ( from Britain ) and @Viet ( from Germany ) won't tell you all this.

But so nice to come to post on this thread after a long time and seeing it flooded by North Atlantic Terrorist Organization propaganda, lies and inhumanity.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Well, he should sit in African/Arab Prison, then in Israeli.



What? Is this a thread against my life? Are you threatening me?




reflecthofgeismar said:


> He would become a Zionist and even the forum Jews would tell him to calm down...




Are you making the case that people become Zionists through coercion?




sammuel said:


> Oohh a holocaust denier as well.
> 
> Suggested reading :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Holocaust - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org




Fyi, I didn't deny the Holocaust. I don't know any facts about it. I just wondered why people go to jail in Europe when they question it. I have nothing against Jews in general, but I questioned why people go to jail in EU if they question it. That is all!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603343342250737665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603348004915773440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603173237881348096

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Fyi, I didn't deny the Holocaust.



So , you are simply cant control what come out of your mouth ? :



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> upon them through your fake "Holohaux" charge.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603185565255335938


Yes its a feint. A clear and obvious one at that. 

Belarussian dictatorship is also not going to self destruct at Putins command. 


How are those pockets going in this 3 day special operation Hassan? 
Oh its for a “multipolar” world now? And not russia being an agressive colonizer. 

Russia falling from 2nd superpower of the world (supposedly near peer) to a regional player/bigger north korea failed state is going to make the world multipolar how?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: GRAPHIC...Dead Ukrainian troops litter near Kupyansk after their unsuccessful offensive failed big time





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603169886045437952


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> So , you are simply cant control what come out of your mouth ? :




I see people using both terms. You can't blame me for what other people call it. The people who believe this event happened called it "Holocaust. The people who deny it call it "Holohoax". So depending upon the situation, I tend to use either one. Personally though, I'm on the fence. I neither deny it nor acknowledge it.

But I question why people - Arabs and Muslims in the Levant who had no part in this conflict - pay the ultimate price for a conflict that they have nothing to do with! If Hitler, a German and European, killed European Jews, why the Arabs and Palestinian people, who have nothing to do with that conflict, pay the ultimate price for a conflict that they have nothing to do with?

Let us not forget the British government at the time offered Jews to move to Uganda in East Africa or a place in South America.

But of course you being a Krishna-worshiping, Hindutva boy, I don't expect you to understand it. I never understood the new love between Hindutva and Zion. All we see is Hindutva boys like you running around in social media attacking Arabs and Muslims on behalf of your Zionist patrons. 

***Not sure if you know but* Ghazwa-e-Hind *has been promised to us. Your day of reckoning will happen. That is a divine promise!***

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603464998659182592




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602589557819691008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603461198934167553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603452160154517517

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603415898060197888


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603458862320951297


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603465167089635332
If you couldn't get any dumber russians targeted their own s300 @F-22Raptor @jhungary


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603466809969098753

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603465167089635332
> If you couldn't get any dumber russians targeted their own s300 @F-22Raptor @jhungary
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603466809969098753




Your friend didn't show a proof that was in August. He also didn't show that the targeted belonged to Russia. What the Western and Uktrainian propagandists say online is not the absolute truth. Bring proof or stop shooting some blanks in social media.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Your friend didn't show a proof that was in August. He also didn't show that the targeted belonged to Russia. What the Western and Uktrainian propagandists say online is not the absolute truth. Bring proof or stop shooting some blanks in social media.


Says someone only regurgitating russian social media propaganda hahahaha

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## The SC

Ukrainian army 100% sure : Next month a new Russian offensive on Kiev!

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## sammuel

~


Heavy explosion rocked ammunition depot in Irmino, occupied part of Luhansk region



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603487430644056064
~

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Looks like Russia is getting ready for all of eventualities.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603298060766961667


Beny Karachun said:


> Again, nothing that shows the Gepard missing, if anything it's more likely the drone broke its wings and fell down.






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603503154192011265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603502698380288000

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The victorious Russian and pro-Russian armies pushing the West's cannon fodder aka Ukrainian army out of Marinka.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603494855761616916

Another energy facility is hit and was made out of business in Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603479442893987841

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Your day of reckoning will happen. That is a divine promise!***



People who misuse religion , to wish harm on others . have serious misunderstanding about what religion is all about.

~

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603351477547941889

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## The SC

China And Russia JUST ANNOUNCED Their NEW MEGA Gas Pipeline That Will Be A GAME CHANGER​

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603501201991016457


Spoiler: Graphic...Ukrainian forces ran away their wounded and DPR liberators captured them in the basement of a building in Pervomayske, DPR





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603505841830772736

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Seriously, if some central banks are bypassing the SWIFT system and directly dealing with SPFS and CHIPS, how long do you think it'll take them to bypass the P&I insurance racket?
> 
> The West tried to use the P&I against Iran and DPRK, but both countries found a way to circumvent it. How do you think it'll affect the Russians when they have the support of China and other countries?
> 
> Look, using the P&I is a desperate way of trying to hurt Russia when the West's military aid to Ukraine is not bearing fruits. And the reality that the Western leaders are avoiding to accept is the inevitable outcome of this war: The end of *Unipolar* world where the West had the all the tools to manipulate and abuse other countries, and the start of the *Multipolar* world where others have similar systems in place and don't need the West subjugating them.
> 
> You and many Westerners can dance around it but this ship has already sailed, and China, Russia, Iran, DPRK, and others have made sure they broke through all of the chains that the Zionist plantation called West placed on the rest of humanity. Good riddance to the end of the usury-based evil system that you all called Unipolar world.


This is not about central bank or whatever. This is about the security of transactions. Even Belgium (The country that own SWIFT) have to buy insurance from an international vendor if they want to indemnify for insurance purpose. This is not about how much money you have in your bank, or your country have in their federal bank. Especially not when you are using Fiat Currency, because you can't back that up without tangible asset. You can't just back it by your own word. 

You are talking about a process. Like you buy a house, you put your money in a third-party escrow BEFORE you finalise the detail but show the seller you are willing to buy, seller aren't getting the money until the detail is finalised, because you ALREADY paid the escrow. It wouldn't work if I want to buy a house and tell the seller you transfer the deed to me first, and then "I Promise" i will pay the balance, it won't work even if I show them, I had multiple millions of dollars in my account that can cover the price of 6 house. Because you don't offer a tangible asset to the buyer. 

Russia can only be a guarantor to some other country outside Russia, otherwise if Russia being the guarantor of their own country, then the tangible asset is "Trust Me Bro, I am going to pay if thing F'ed up" 

Jesus, do you even know how insurance or loan work??



Viet said:


> Putin will insure himself that makes sense. In reality Russia is a pariah, an untrusted business partner. Even Putin manages to assemble own oil tankers, own insurance, which is almost impossible now for Russia, nobody in the world, except hardcore supporters, will let russian oil tankers to pass their waters.


lol, only our friend Hassan would think that would work. 

If that work, I will probably gonna buy my next house using Hassan method. And tell the selling "I am the guarantor of my own loan, Trust me Bro, I am gonna pay"

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603417837208588290

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603501201991016457
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic...Ukrainian forces ran away their wounded and DPR liberators captured them in the basement of a building in Pervomayske, DPR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603505841830772736





Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603508452046823425




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603504162892816398

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603484127763709952

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> This is not about central bank or whatever. This is about the security of transactions. Even Belgium (The country that own SWIFT) have to buy insurance from an international vendor if they want to indemnify for insurance purpose. This is not about how much money you have in your bank, or your country have in their federal bank. Especially not when you are using Fiat Currency, because you can't back that up without tangible asset. You can't just back it by your own word.
> 
> You are talking about a process. Like you buy a house, you put your money in a third-party escrow BEFORE you finalise the detail but show the seller you are willing to buy, seller aren't getting the money until the detail is finalised, because you ALREADY paid the escrow. It wouldn't work if I want to buy a house and tell the seller you transfer the deed to me first, and then "I Promise" i will pay the balance, it won't work even if I show them, I had multiple millions of dollars in my account that can cover the price of 6 house. Because you don't offer a tangible asset to the buyer.
> 
> Russia can only be a guarantor to some other country outside Russia, otherwise if Russia being the guarantor of their own country, then the tangible asset is "Trust Me Bro, I am going to pay if thing F'ed up"
> 
> Jesus, do you even know how insurance or loan work??
> 
> 
> lol, only our friend Hassan would think that would work.
> 
> If that work, I will probably gonna buy my next house using Hassan method. And tell the selling "I am the guarantor of my own loan, Trust me Bro, I am gonna pay"



You're a typical Western propagandists who lives in his (or her) own bubble. Yes, it is true that the powerful International Group of P&I Clubs (IGP&I) provide insurance services for 90% of global seaborne cargo. However, what you aren't taking into account is how Russians has assessed all the potential scenarios and tools that the West could've used against them.

Here is a description of what Russia has done in order to "maintain an independent fleet outside of the EU/UK regulatory framework, which Moscow now considers unreliable and abusing of free market rules:

In May, Russia's Rosneft PJSC and Gazprom PJSC started increasing the bookings of tankers owned by Sovcomflot PJSC, Russia's largest shipping company specializing in the maritime transportation of hydrocarbons.

Russian vessels could carry 70-80% of its total seaborne crude cargo. Similarly, Russia instrumentalized its own insurance companies, including the Russian National Reinsurance Company (RNRC) and IPJSC Ingosstrakh, the country’s fourth-largest general insurer.

Furthermore, one should also bear in mind that the G7 measures do not affect Russia's pipeline crude. The Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary, who were excluded from the scheme, are receiving oil through the Druzhba pipeline.

Russia also operates the 4,857-km ESPO oil pipeline that starts from Taishet in eastern Siberia and sends oil to the Pacific Ocean terminal at Kozmino.

The ESPO pipeline also has a 942-km mainland China branch which goes further into the Northeastern oil pipeline network. In 2018, China strengthened the branch by building an additional line.

Thus, according to S&P Global, in 2021, Asian refineries imported 2.4 million barrels per day (mb/d) or about 120 million metric tons per year (MMt/y) of Russian oil via the ESPO oil pipeline and waterborne routes, with over 80% of the oil delivered to mainland China.

Needless to say, Russia is capitalizing on its favorable geographical situation which allows it to deliver hydrocarbons to Asia through safe land routes. In addition, Russia has its own prospective maritime route which further lessens its dependence on the traditional sea lanes.

On December 21, 2019, the Russian government approved the country’s development plan for its Northern Sea Route (NSR), a shipping lane located along Russia's Arctic coast within its exclusive economic zone (EEZ).

The route through the Arctic offers a cheaper and faster transportation corridor between Asia and Europe, completely outside of US control. The June 2021 blockage of the Suez Canal further underlined the importance of developing the NSR as an alternative.

In September 2022, the journal of the Eastern Economic Forum wrote that Moscow plans to boost its Arctic fleet by building 153 new ships, including 12 icebreakers. Russia aims to up transarctic transportation by creating a new class of cargo vessels for the NSR by 2035.

Russia intends to use the NSR as a "safe, competitive, year-round national transport route." Russian media reported in November 2022 that icebreaking tanker "Vasily Dinkov" had passed the NSR for the second time in the history of Russia to deliver crude oil to China.

On Nov 18, it arrived at the Chinese port of Rizhao, leaving Murmansk on Oct 27. the passage along the NSR from Murmansk to Chinese ports takes an average of 18-20 days. "

Every thing I wrote in this comment is all to the credit of this Twitter profile: https://twitter.com/ArtLove7654321/

As I said before, you can continue to believe what you hear from the crap that Western-based mainstream media uses to brainwash the sheeple, but there is a whole different reality that exists outside the West.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603334686591574017

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## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> As for slavery, I am a Somali and was never subjected to. We kicked the arse of every European who came to our shore, starting from the Portugeuse to the British to the French.


Explains your IQ lol


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Can't for this guys to get the rwandan peacekeepers ntreatment if you catch my drift. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602925941164232704

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Beny Karachun

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Can't for this guys to get the rwandan peacekeepers ntreatment if you catch my drift.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602925941164232704


Just wanna make it more accurate, since get lost can be understood in two ways.
He said "Got lost" as in "doesn't know where he is, not "get lost"


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603387957687496704

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The moral values that the West is promoting and funding in Ukraine 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603514241817911325

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're a typical Western propagandists who lives in his (or her) own bubble. Yes, it is true that the powerful International Group of P&I Clubs (IGP&I) provide insurance services for 90% of global seaborne cargo. However, what you aren't taking into account is how Russians has assessed all the potential scenarios and tools that the West could've used against them.
> 
> Here is a description of what Russia has done in order to "maintain an independent fleet outside of the EU/UK regulatory framework, which Moscow now considers unreliable and abusing of free market rules:
> 
> In May, Russia's Rosneft PJSC and Gazprom PJSC started increasing the bookings of tankers owned by Sovcomflot PJSC, Russia's largest shipping company specializing in the maritime transportation of hydrocarbons.
> 
> Russian vessels could carry 70-80% of its total seaborne crude cargo. Similarly, Russia instrumentalized its own insurance companies, including the Russian National Reinsurance Company (RNRC) and IPJSC Ingosstrakh, the country’s fourth-largest general insurer.
> 
> Furthermore, one should also bear in mind that the G7 measures do not affect Russia's pipeline crude. The Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary, who were excluded from the scheme, are receiving oil through the Druzhba pipeline.
> 
> Russia also operates the 4,857-km ESPO oil pipeline that starts from Taishet in eastern Siberia and sends oil to the Pacific Ocean terminal at Kozmino.
> 
> The ESPO pipeline also has a 942-km mainland China branch which goes further into the Northeastern oil pipeline network. In 2018, China strengthened the branch by building an additional line.
> 
> Thus, according to S&P Global, in 2021, Asian refineries imported 2.4 million barrels per day (mb/d) or about 120 million metric tons per year (MMt/y) of Russian oil via the ESPO oil pipeline and waterborne routes, with over 80% of the oil delivered to mainland China.
> 
> Needless to say, Russia is capitalizing on its favorable geographical situation which allows it to deliver hydrocarbons to Asia through safe land routes. In addition, Russia has its own prospective maritime route which further lessens its dependence on the traditional sea lanes.
> 
> On December 21, 2019, the Russian government approved the country’s development plan for its Northern Sea Route (NSR), a shipping lane located along Russia's Arctic coast within its exclusive economic zone (EEZ).
> 
> The route through the Arctic offers a cheaper and faster transportation corridor between Asia and Europe, completely outside of US control. The June 2021 blockage of the Suez Canal further underlined the importance of developing the NSR as an alternative.
> 
> In September 2022, the journal of the Eastern Economic Forum wrote that Moscow plans to boost its Arctic fleet by building 153 new ships, including 12 icebreakers. Russia aims to up transarctic transportation by creating a new class of cargo vessels for the NSR by 2035.
> 
> Russia intends to use the NSR as a "safe, competitive, year-round national transport route." Russian media reported in November 2022 that icebreaking tanker "Vasily Dinkov" had passed the NSR for the second time in the history of Russia to deliver crude oil to China.
> 
> On Nov 18, it arrived at the Chinese port of Rizhao, leaving Murmansk on Oct 27. the passage along the NSR from Murmansk to Chinese ports takes an average of 18-20 days. "
> 
> Every thing I wrote in this comment is all to the credit of this Twitter profile: https://twitter.com/ArtLove7654321/
> 
> As I said before, you can continue to believe what you hear from the crap that Western-based mainstream media uses to brainwash the sheeple, but there is a whole different reality that exists outside the West.


Dude, a bunch of word, and you are talking about how it "May" or "Should" have been. 

I don't really care about how much Moscow wanted to boost Artic Fleet or how much Russian going to expand their artic EEZ. The bottom line is

*YOU CANNOT INSURE AGAINST YOUR OWN COUNTRY FLAGGED SHIP.* 

It's like when there is an accident like Ever Given, the authority of the party that was damaged cannot sue you because you will be handling your own case.... That's because you are your own insurer.

This have nothing to do with money, power, or anything, this is about *BUSINESS PRACTICES*. Again, go and try to buy a house without an escrow, see if anyone willing to sell you one?? 

Just exactly how stupid were you??

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> As for slavery, I am a Somali and was never subjected to. We kicked the arse of every European who came to our shore, starting from the Portugeuse to the British to the French.



Actually it was the Italian colonial administration that abolished slavery in Somalia at the turn of the 20th century.

However, some Somali clans notably the Biimal clan opposed this idea. The Bimaals fought Italians to keep their slaves. Although the Italians freed some Bantus, some Bantu groups, remained enslaved well until the 1930s,










Slavery in Somalia - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I see people using both terms. You can't blame me for what other people call it. The people who believe this event happened called it "Holocaust. The people who deny it call it "Holohoax". So depending upon the situation, I tend to use either one. Personally though, I'm on the fence. I neither deny it nor acknowledge it.
> 
> But I question why people - Arabs and Muslims in the Levant who had no part in this conflict - pay the ultimate price for a conflict that they have nothing to do with! If Hitler, a German and European, killed European Jews, why the Arabs and Palestinian people, who have nothing to do with that conflict, pay the ultimate price for a conflict that they have nothing to do with?
> 
> Let us not forget the British government at the time offered Jews to move to Uganda in East Africa or a place in South America.
> 
> But of course you being a Krishna-worshiping, Hindutva boy, I don't expect you to understand it. I never understood the new love between Hindutva and Zion. All we see is Hindutva boys like you running around in social media attacking Arabs and Muslims on behalf of your Zionist patrons.
> 
> ***Not sure if you know but* Ghazwa-e-Hind *has been promised to us. Your day of reckoning will happen. That is a divine promise!***


So you consider accepting refugees is ”paying a price”.
Then Europe is ”paying a price” for all the Arab/Africans seeking refuge in Europe.
All of Europe would take up arms against the Evil Somalians and kill them.
Has not happened yet.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603514862314856465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603374062985940994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603488757709168646

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603488768656302107

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Actually you are quite wrong.
> 
> This is today's article :
> 
> 
> There are protests across other parts of Europe.
> 
> From France from October :
> 
> 
> But our NATO propagandists here from Europe like @Vergennes ( from France, with a "We lub Zelensky" flag ), @Ali_Baba ( from Britain ) and @Viet ( from Germany ) won't tell you all this.
> 
> But so nice to come to post on this thread after a long time and seeing it flooded by North Atlantic Terrorist Organization propaganda, lies and inhumanity.


The UK misery with food shortage has much to do with stupid Brexit. The war just adds more pain into the misery.
Please tell the dumb spy Putin if he stops the killing then everything would be better.


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> The UK misery with food shortage has much to do with stupid Brexit. The war just adds more pain into the misery. Please tell the dumb spy Putin to stop the killing then everything would be better.



I didn't know France, Germany and rest of Europe were part of Greater Britain.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> So you consider accepting refugees is ”paying a price”.
> Then Europe is ”paying a price” for all the Arab/Africans seeking refuge in Europe.
> All of Europe would take up arms against the Evil Somalians and kill them.
> Has not happened yet.



You effing dumbo, no African or Arab is taking over a whole territory of Europe and declaring it as their own due to some made-up sh-t charge they have in their "bible". You can tell them to go home any moment or remove them, and they'll leave. You can't even compare the two. 

Guys, don't quote me if you're this much dumb.

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## The SC

A big surprise and in the most dangerous confession from the commander of the Joint Operational Staff and the Ukrainian ground forces Olexander Syrskyi the holder of the Hero of Ukraine award and the only active service ranking general with the rank of Colobel-General: The Russian armed forces are overwhelming the AFU.. and the defeat will be with very dire losses.. he also said that anyone who ignores the power of the Russian forces and the Russian army will suffer a huge defeat.. since the AFR is far from being weak..

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## kingQamaR

Belarus joining will have a 2 day war, we have already seen they are no great shakes and i do not think the Belarussian people will stand for it, they despise Lukashenko anyway, it won't need much of an excuse for the military and population to turn on him, he knows this.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> Dude, a bunch of word, and you are talking about how it "May" or "Should" have been.
> 
> I don't really care about how much Moscow wanted to boost Artic Fleet or how much Russian going to expand their artic EEZ. The bottom line is
> 
> *YOU CANNOT INSURE AGAINST YOUR OWN COUNTRY FLAGGED SHIP.*
> 
> It's like when there is an accident like Ever Given, the authority of the party that was damaged cannot sue you because you will be handling your own case.... That's because you are your own insurer.
> 
> This have nothing to do with money, power, or anything, this is about *BUSINESS PRACTICES*. Again, go and try to buy a house without an escrow, see if anyone willing to sell you one??
> 
> Just exactly how stupid were you??




You're just dancing around the facts that I've lied out. 

First, Russian vessels could carry 70-80% of its total seaborne crude cargo.

Second, Russia instrumentalized its own insurance companies, including the Russian National Reinsurance Company (RNRC) and IPJSC Ingosstrakh, the country’s fourth-largest general insurer.

Third, due to its favorable geographical situation, Russia has built pipelines that can carry most of their energy deliveries to Asia, particularly to China.

Fourth, Russia is building a new arctic fleet that is made of new "153 new ships, including 12 icebreakers." At least 12 of these ice breakers are already delivering crude oil to China, and the territory that they're using is completely outside of US control.

Now, go ahead and tell us how the sanctions through P&I can hurt Russia when they're already well-prepared and developed the means to bypass it. You can go back in circles and explain on how ships and cargoes are insured, but if the country that is sanctioned is not relying on P&I services and it already have its own fleet and pipelines that are delivering the goods to its final destination, the damage that can be caused by the P&I will be manageable.

A case study that you can easily look at is how Iran and Venezuela defeated the P&I insurance sanctions. All that they have done was they insured their own fleet and the cargo, and where some ports were complying with Western sanctions, they developed elaborate ways of hiding the origins of the cargo.

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## KAL-EL

jamahir said:


> I didn't know France, Germany and rest of Europe were part of Greater Britain.



All hail Britannia!

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## jamahir

KAL-EL said:


> All hail Britannia!


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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're just dancing around the facts that I've lied out.
> 
> First, Russian vessels could carry 70-80% of its total seaborne crude cargo.
> 
> Second, Russia instrumentalized its own insurance companies, including the Russian National Reinsurance Company (RNRC) and IPJSC Ingosstrakh, the country’s fourth-largest general insurer.
> 
> Third, due to its favorable geographical situation, Russia has built pipelines that can carry most of their energy deliveries to Asia, particularly to China.
> 
> Fourth, Russia is building a new arctic fleet that is made of new "153 new ships, including 12 icebreakers." At least 12 of these ice breakers are already delivering crude oil to China, and the territory that they're using is completely outside of US control.
> 
> Now, go ahead and tell us how the sanctions through P&I can hurt Russia when they're already well-prepared and developed the means to bypass it. You can go back in circles and explain on how ships and cargoes are insured, but if the country that is sanctioned is not relying on P&I services and it already have its own fleet and pipelines that are delivering the goods to its final destination, the damage that can be caused by the P&I will be manageable.
> 
> A case study that you can easily look at is how Iran and Venezuela defeated the P&I insurance sanctions. All that they have done was they insured their own fleet and the cargo, and where some ports were complying with Western sanctions, they developed elaborate ways of hiding the origins of the cargo.


Dude, you are the one that is dancing around the issue.

How would I sue you if you are your own insurer??

Say if you have a Russian ship, you do an Ever Given and grounded in the Suze and I am Suze Canal operation authority. If you don't pay, I will have to go after your insurer. Which in this case, is also in Russia. There existed something called "conflict of Interest" which mean your own court cannot be judging a case for your own country, set aside the "fairness and balance issue" that Russia MAY or MAY NOT have. I will never receive the damage even if I won that case, in this case is Russia, because if you default on a judgement order, THERE ARE PRETTY MUCH NOTHING I CAN DO.



> Now, go ahead and tell us how the sanctions through P&I can hurt Russia when they're already well-prepared and developed the means to bypass it.



How this can hurt Russia? Most dock won't even let you come close if you don't have a valid P&I, and unless you want to send replenishment ship every 15 days to provide for your Russian Cargo ship for replenishment, once your cargo ship runs out provision like food, water and fuel, *IT WON'T MOVE*. And you will need to dock to replenish it. *Your cargo ship doesn't run on nuclear power, your crew don't run on nuclear power*, both ship and crew needed refuel, and you can only do it while you dock. And if you can't dock Because you don't have P&I, your ship is limited to about 10-15 days range from Russia. Which is nothing. You are talking about 2-300 nautical mile range.

You can't even go to North Korea from Russia because you will need to dock at either Japan or China, both won't let you do it if you don't have P&I. So does Turkey, (EU are already banned) and Egypt, which mean your ship will get stuck in between. 

Again, exactly how dumb are you??


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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> Actually it was the Italian colonial administration that abolished slavery in Somalia at the turn of the 20th century.
> 
> However, some Somali clans notably the Biimal clan opposed this idea. The Bimaals fought Italians to keep their slaves. Although the Italians freed some Bantus, some Bantu groups, remained enslaved well until the 1930s,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slavery in Somalia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Difference: Biimaal are ethnic Somali, Bantus are not. And how it was practiced was different than how slavery was practiced in Hindustan. In Southern Somalia where Bantus live around the two river, they had their own settlements, their own farms, etc. The Biimaal was in control of Lower Shabele region and the commercial city Merca. So it was labor-based and not physically controlled people. One group was more urban and nomadic, hence access to more horses and fireaarms and were able to sail to overseas. The other group was farmers and had limited firearms. 

But looking at your Hindustan case, things were far worse. 👇









Slavery in India - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Christians sold Hindus as slaves to Europeans


1) As per this research paper, more than 38% of slave sellers to the Dutch slave trade were Indian Christians




hindupost.in













Was Hindu Kush where millions of Hindus died? | India News - Times of India


India News: If the Hindu Kush could speak, they would tell us many stories and reveal many secrets, of those who crossed, and those who died, on its treacherous p




timesofindia.indiatimes.com

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> I didn't know France, Germany and rest of Europe were part of Greater Britain.


No certainty not
There is no food shortage in Germany, not in France. Don’t buy kremlin bullshit.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603529361302425600

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## sammuel

~


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> As for slavery, I am a Somali and was never subjected to. We kicked the arse of every European who came to our shore, starting from the Portugeuse to the British to the French.





Don't try to dodge ,

Again : It was the Italian colonial administration that abolished slavery in Somalia at the turn of the 20th century.

Slavery was over in Somalia , not because you " kicked " Europeans out , as you tried to describe it , but because the Europeans forced you to stop the slave trade.









Slavery in Somalia - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





~

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603699999782670339


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## thetutle

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Jews BOUGHT land from Ottoman Empire and made it productive.


Muslims buying land in EU makes it a muslim area also. I agree. 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I have nothing against Jews in general, but I questioned why people go to jail in EU if they question it. That is all!


because europe has no freedom of speech. You will spend a very long tie in jail if you criticise certain protected privileged groups. But you can say anything against muslims and it's no problem. Just like in the rest of the west. 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But I question why people - Arabs and Muslims in the Levant who had no part in this conflict - pay the ultimate price for a conflict that they have nothing to do with! If Hitler, a German and European, killed European Jews, why the Arabs and Palestinian people, who have nothing to do with that conflict, pay the ultimate price for a conflict that they have nothing to do with?


Because the Anglo-Saxon empire smiled upon the jews and gifted them this land to make a country on. Thats what empires do. Thats what Russia did to Armenia, Thats what Russia did to Donbas (Peoples republic of Luhansk & Donetsk). 

The strength of this new country is only as strong as the empire. This is why Israel is strong and why Donbas is weak. It's that simple.

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603484127763709952


indeed the word fury written in front of it is befitting , they were built at the same time probably at the same factory with the same workers


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## jamahir

Viet said:


> No certainty not
> There is no food shortage in Germany, not in France. Don’t buy kremlin bullshit.



So you didn't read my post properly which has the line "From France from October :" with link included of a French news agency and spoke of a massive protest in October.

If you don't believe "Kremlin bullshit" will you believe Forbes at least ? The article is from March so the situation is worse now hence the massive protest march in Paris in October :


> France Considers Giving Out Food Subsidies Amid Rising Prices​Lisa Kim
> Forbes Staff
> 
> Mar 22, 2022,02:48pm EDT
> Updated Apr 14, 2022, 02:06pm EDT
> 
> TOPLINE​France is considering handing food vouchers to middle- and low-income households to help them weather rising food prices, which have worsened following Russia’s attack on Ukraine, President Emmanuel Macron said in a radio interview Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> French President Emmanuel Macron speaks at a joint press conference with German Chancellor Olaf ... [+]
> GETTY IMAGES
> 
> KEY FACTS​“We will be facing a worldwide food crisis,” said Marcon, who is up for re-election next month, according to CNN.
> 
> French Foreign Affairs Minister Jean-Yves LeDrian said Monday the conflict in Ukraine could potentially trigger famine if farmers are unable to continue their work.
> 
> Global wheat futures have surged since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which is the world’s fifth-largest exporter of wheat, according to the USDA.
> 
> Earlier this month, Ukraine blocked exports of certain agricultural products, including rye and oats, and the government has required sellers obtain permission to export products such as wheat and corn.
> 
> 
> KEY BACKGROUND​Wheat prices briefly hit a record high of $13.64 a bushel on March 8, as the conflict in Ukraine disrupted exports of agricultural goods from that country. Even before Russia invaded Ukraine, food prices were rising due to worsening inflation and supply chain disruptions. In February, the U.N.’s international food price index rose to an all-time high.
> 
> TANGENT​In Lebanon, bread prices have surged 70% since the beginning of March following the Russia attack on Ukraine, the _Financial Times_ reported. Lebanon is one of the countries in the Middle East that depend on Ukrainian wheat.



And here's fitpOsitive who lives in Germany speaking on December 9th :


fitpOsitive said:


> Protests in germany.
> People are demanding : bread, heating and living.
> Some people are suggesting that Russian gas is the only way out. They want the gas line repaired.


Viet, you live in Germany too so why do you lie ?

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## fitpOsitive

jamahir said:


> So you didn't read my post properly which has the line "From France from October :" with link included of a French news agency and spoke of a massive protest in October.
> 
> If you don't believe "Kremlin bullshit" will you believe Forbes at least ? The article is from March so the situation is worse now hence the massive protest march in Paris in October :
> 
> And here's fitpOsitive who lives in Germany speaking on December 9th :
> 
> Viet, you live in Germany too so why do you lie ?


The problem is, what I wrote was taken totally wrong. People are protesting due to inceasing prices, not shortages.


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## jamahir

fitpOsitive said:


> The problem is, what I wrote was taken totally wrong. People are protesting due to inceasing prices, not shortages.



Same thing really. Increasing prices will meaning food hoarding by the government and by the Capitalist corporate supermarkets. A few will be able to afford regular bread and can fly in wine from Greece on a helicopter every Saturday but most won't be able to afford bread reguarly. That is the reason of the France protests too.

Some months ago on this thread somebody from Germany ( maybe @Ich ) had posted photo of a protest in Germany.

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## fitpOsitive

jamahir said:


> Same thing really. Increasing prices will meaning food hoarding by the government and by the Capitalist corporate supermarkets. A few will be able to afford regular bread and can fly in wine from Greece on a helicopter every Saturday but most won't be able to afford bread reguarly. That is the reason of the France protests too.
> 
> Some months ago on this thread somebody from Germany ( maybe @Ich ) had posted photo of a protest in Germany.


People in germany are very active in politics and govts respect that.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603715684697276416

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## thetutle

Here is a soldier explaining to the idiot judge that Russia is not going to out produce the west. And that the empire will not lose to Russia in this proxy war.

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## thetutle

20 minutes of coping. its fun to watch.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603737892676927492

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You effing dumbo, no African or Arab is taking over a whole territory of Europe and declaring it as their own due to some made-up sh-t charge they have in their "bible". You can tell them to go home any moment or remove them, and they'll leave. You can't even compare the two.
> 
> Guys, don't quote me if you're this much dumb.


The difference between Europeans and Arabs is that Europeans are not trying to kill the Africans or Arabs, so they have no reason to try to protect themselves by forming a state. The Arabs on the other hand started killing Jews in the early twentieth century. They complained to the Ottomans, which found their complaints to be without merit.
That puts the Arabs the in the same group as European racists, except the latter are with few exceptions not physically attacking the refugees like the Arabs. And the rest of the Western Europeans are the role model.
How many Ukrainan refugees have Arab and African nations accepted?
You are looking up to Russia, which one of the worst European countries according to most statistics. I guess they share with you the same opinion on human rights.


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## Viet

thetutle said:


> 20 minutes of coping. its fun to watch.


You can feel how he is panicking on the prospect Patriots are delivered to Ukraine. He tries badmouthing everything. Training would take too long too late. Patriots missiles are useless against mighty Russia missiles anyway. Ukraine would lose badly. Bla bla bla.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Misha Firer


Brutalsky Son of Quora.




www.quora.com





*What are some things that are against the law in Russia that are not against the law in the United States?*





Social power dynamics are explored in a Tom and Jerry knockoff, Soviet animated series “Well, Just You Wait!” in which chain-smoking Wolf is being repeatedly outsmarted and deceived by Hare. A savvy Russian citizen knows he has to break laws to survive in brutalsky society.
There’s no lack of laws in Russia. The State Duma churns them out by thousands every month.
There’s no lack of law enforcement agencies to enforce them. Russia has one of the largest police force per capita in the world.
There’s Investigative Committee established in 2011 and modelled after FBI that fights corruption and high criminal affairs.
The head of IC is Putin’s close ally and personal friend as the goal is clearly not to have an independent institute of power. As a consequence, it immediately succumbed to a vehicle for persecuting regime’s critics.
Russians naively believe that if they replicate the best practices from the West, they’ll be automatically infilled with vitality and efficiency, which is a cargo cult par excellence.
What Russia lacks is the rule of law.
The rule of law cannot be replicated through simply mimicking external practices of the West. The people and the nation must arrive to it through historical evolution. They must eventually feel an internal imperative to have the rule of law. And Russia still has to a long way to go to get there.
As a consequence, political stability of the Russian state depends on reactionary, oppressive policies of the government and authoritarianism.
Some laws are not enforced but rather brutally forced upon people, while others disregarded if they don’t benefit the elites.
A common Russian person elevated to any minor position of authority - say, a cop or a teacher - immediately becomes a mini-despot meting out punishments and absolutions in arbitrary fashion as he sees fit.
Additionally, he’d be sucking up to the higher-ups: they’re guarantors of his position of authority. In that relation he’s weak.
At the opposite end, his subordinates - drivers and students - are weak in relation to him and he must coerce them to obey him as the only way to make them behave, and he always has to prove his authority as in terms of law it always remains questionable to some degree.
In absence of the rule of law, being vested with authority allows him to do whatever the hell he wants with people until there’s a pushback (parents complaining to head teacher, for example), at which point he retreats but not until.
Thus majority of interactions of Russians is a zero sum game, in which you either win or lose. You can’t win both as it precludes equality of sorts.
A person in the position of authority can be a benevolent tsar or a malignant entity, or both. Sky is the limit.
It’s especially amusing to see this authority thing play out in traffic cops. A cop pulls me over and I can just see how cogs are moving in his head as he assesses how to relate to me.
“Is he weak or strong?
“Weak, for sure, but look at his office plankton face and glasses. What if he knows traffic rules that I don't?
“And I bet he knows how to write a complaint on gosuslugi portal.
“Is he a good or a bad person? Why is he smiling?? I bet he knows something that I don’t!
“He wears stripy paratrooper shirt under the snow jacket. What if he’s a SMO hero? How do I, Ivan from Komarovo village, relate to this weirdo?
“All right. I’m just gonna pucker up my face and look tough and tell him “I’m letting you off the hook this time.”
It’s everything in the world except why the traffic cop pulled you over for - to write you a ticket.
In Russia, there’s no mechanicalness to simple things like interaction with a traffic cop that you can experience in protestant countries. Instead it’s unpredictable for you both.
Living in Russia you’re being subjected to this sort of scrutiny as strangers try to appraise how to relate to you from the position of strength or weakness. The best strategy to adopt a big boss loud and confident voice then it’s immediately clear you are the strong one in the interaction.
Within the general lawlessness, interpretation of law depends on your social status and kinship ties.
People here always find it more beneficial to profit from kinship ties and personal relations rather than rely on laws in the system where courts are not independent and punishment is often arbitrary.
I’ll illustrate it with an example. For years, movie and TV stars used to get into DUI accidents with fatalities crushing to death or maiming some poor sods in a Lada or KIA Matiz with their massive SUVs on city streets.
The public clamoured to keep them out of jail because they didn’t want to trade one person’s life for not seeing their favourite actor on screen for years.
This emboldened celebrities to keep on getting drunk and get behind the wheel as they knew they’d get away from any accident unless it involved someone above them in the food chain.
Additionally, a bribe for DUI that was for some time 100k (I don’t know the current rates I don’t drink and drive anymore - kidding) was a big sum for commoners so they hesitated to drink and drive, but a pittance for celebrities and rich people so they wouldn’t care if they got pulled over and folk out 100k in cash from glove compartment.
Consequently, in the West social contract is based on trust - you’re innocent until proven guilty.
In Russia, by default - on mistrust. After you’ve proven that your intentions and wishes correlate with the group and you’re a team player, you can expect laws to be bent and broken to reward you for the correct behaviour.
This deviation from norm has transformed Russia into a mafia state where psychopathic behaviour is awarded as long as you’re a team player, that is, a crook like the rest of them.
In Russia, laws is for suckers.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603797691040923648


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## Hassan Al-Somal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The difference between Europeans and Arabs is that Europeans are not trying to kill the Africans or Arabs, so they have no reason to try to protect themselves by forming a state. The Arabs on the other hand started killing Jews in the early twentieth century. They complained to the Ottomans, which found their complaints to be without merit.
> That puts the Arabs the in the same group as European racists, except the latter are with few exceptions not physically attacking the refugees like the Arabs. And the rest of the Western Europeans are the role model.
> How many Ukrainan refugees have Arab and African nations accepted?
> You are looking up to Russia, which one of the worst European countries according to most statistics. I guess they share with you the same opinion on human rights.




So genuine refugees from war (Arabs and Africans) who need temporary protection in EU and other countries are comparable to marauding settlers with arms and tanks who are backed by Western empire in order to uproot and confiscate the lands and homes of the indigenous people in the Holy Land? Spare me with your misplaced whataboutism. I have no desire of continuing this discussion with you, so why don't you stop quoting me?

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## Viet

Germany delivers additional Gepard flak tanks. And fresh 35mm ammo. Ukraine will receive the first batch of 300,000 rounds by a new Rheinmetall factory in June.
This new factory will make all ammo from 20mm to 35mm.









Rheinmetall baut Munitionsherstellung aus


Das Nein der Schweiz zur Lieferung von Flugabwehrmunition an die Ukraine hat in Berlin für Ärger gesorgt. Rheinmetall baut jetzt die Munitionsherstellung aus, um die Bundeswehr bei dem Thema unabhängig zu machen.




www.tagesschau.de


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603734465808850949
The whole Ukraine got de-energized today 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603732140662968328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603728628646289408

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## Ich

jamahir said:


> Some months ago on this thread somebody from Germany ( maybe @Ich ) had posted photo of a protest in Germany.



That was not me. There are some sane people here too who did this. And yes, there are protests. Mostly smaler ones with 500-1000 people. At least every Monday in hundreds of towns and cities. And then sometimes at the weekends to. But you wont find it in the news. But if you want, i can show you some vids. There is also a vid from the newslet RT where they show around 50 protests in one vid because the people also protest against the sanctions. These protests are mostly on Monday since 2015 when dumb Merkel open all borders for all, even assholes. Then between the protests was smashed down by the gov, especially the anti-vaxx-protests. Some people died at this smash downs through police. Meanwhile the smash-downs are not so often anymore, but still sometimes.

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## jamahir

Ich said:


> That was not me. There are some sane people here too who did this. And yes, there are protests. Mostly smaler ones with 500-1000 people. At least every Monday in hundreds of towns and cities. And then sometimes at the weekends to. But you wont find it in the news. But if you want, i can show you some vids. There is also a vid from the newslet RT where they show around 50 protests in one vid. These protests are mostly on Monday since 2015 when dumb Merkel open all borders for all, even assholes. Then between the protests was smashed down by the gov, especially the anti-vaxx-protests. Some people died at this smash downs through police. Meanwhile the smash-downs are not so often anymore, but still sometimes.



Some people died ? Sad. That is an oppressive government. So thanks for the background. Yes, please do post the vids especially from February this year on though I wonder how you can access RT vids.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

A candid admission from General General Valery Zaluzhny, head of Ukraine’s armed forces that:

1) He needs at least 300 more tanks, 600-700 ifvs, and 500 howitzers in order to be "realistic to get to the lines of February 23, 2022". In other words, whatever he has now is not good enough to make a difference.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603449194597023744
2) The missile and drone attacks against Ukrainian energy and power grid are working and could have a significant psychological impact on the Ukrainian forces' will to fight. In other words, the meticulous planning of Russian General Sergey Surovikin is bearing fruits. 

3) The effects of the much-hyped HIMMARS have diminished;

4) And all that Ukrainians can hope for in this current phase is not to lose more territory. He admitted that Russia's mobilization plan has worked, and he worries about what 2023 will look like after the expected major Russian push.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603469984549994496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603472946273652753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603474263792619525
That is the commander of Ukrainian forces sharing an unpopular news in the Western camp.

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## Ich

jamahir said:


> Some people died ? Sad. That is an oppressive government. So thanks for the background. Yes, please do post the vids especially from February this year on though I wonder how you can access RT vids.



Here is the vid from RT. In the down left corner you can read the city where it happened. And this is every Monday in lots of cities.









Bundesweite Proteste gegen Ampel-Regierung: "Es reicht – Deutschland steht auf!"


Immer wieder montags ziehen bundesweit Menschen in Deutschland auf die Straßen, um gegen die Regierung zu protestieren. Manche tun dies schon seit letztem Jahr, andere seit einigen Monaten und immer m...




odysee.com





Me hope this vid gives you an impression what is going on. The other vids are mostly on personal accounts and so me think it is better not to show here in public since there is a new law in Germany what can bring you in jail if you criticies the gov.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So genuine refugees from war (Arabs and Africans) who need temporary protection in EU and other countries are comparable to marauding settlers with arms and tanks who are backed by Western empire in order to uproot and confiscate the lands and homes of the indigenous people in the Holy Land? Spare me with your misplaced whataboutism. I have no desire of continuing this discussion with you, so why don't you stop quoting me?


Genuine refugees who needed protection arrived in the Ottoman Empire, bought land and started to farm. They were exemplary citizen according to the Ottomans and were attacked by Arab hooligans forcing them to arm themselves.
It is not surprising that someone that refuses to acknowledge the historic truth, support the lies of Russia and rejoices in the misery of others.

”Verily, God has rejected the deniers of the truth, and has readied for them a blazing fire”.






It appears that Lockheed-Martin is on a mission from God.




readying blazing fire for the Russians and their supporters.
The Ukrainans are the tool of God in this case.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603696576492445696

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599127873323163648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603767814132727809

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> Dude, you are the one that is dancing around the issue.
> 
> How would I sue you if you are your own insurer??
> 
> Say if you have a Russian ship, you do an Ever Given and grounded in the Suze and I am Suze Canal operation authority. If you don't pay, I will have to go after your insurer. Which in this case, is also in Russia. There existed something called "conflict of Interest" which mean your own court cannot be judging a case for your own country, set aside the "fairness and balance issue" that Russia MAY or MAY NOT have. I will never receive the damage even if I won that case, in this case is Russia, because if you default on a judgement order, THERE ARE PRETTY MUCH NOTHING I CAN DO.
> 
> 
> 
> How this can hurt Russia? Most dock won't even let you come close if you don't have a valid P&I, and unless you want to send replenishment ship every 15 days to provide for your Russian Cargo ship for replenishment, once your cargo ship runs out provision like food, water and fuel, *IT WON'T MOVE*. And you will need to dock to replenish it. *Your cargo ship doesn't run on nuclear power, your crew don't run on nuclear power*, both ship and crew needed refuel, and you can only do it while you dock. And if you can't dock Because you don't have P&I, your ship is limited to about 10-15 days range from Russia. Which is nothing. You are talking about 2-300 nautical mile range.
> 
> You can't even go to North Korea from Russia because you will need to dock at either Japan or China, both won't let you do it if you don't have P&I. So does Turkey, (EU are already banned) and Egypt, which mean your ship will get stuck in between.
> 
> Again, exactly how dumb are you??





The sanctions are already getting busted before they even came to effect. But of coursse you can continue believing in your fairy tale. 

"*The monthly average of both so-called dark activities and ship-to-ship operations in the south Atlantic doubled in the September to November period compared with the previous three months, according to an analysis of movements by the maritime intelligence company Windward. There were around 35 incidents of ‘dark activity’ in September, nearly 50 in October and numbers dipped to just over 40 in November.

Tankers able to hide any Russian links, by illicit transfers mid-ocean, would hope to avoid any price attestation of their cargo.

Ami Daniel, the chief executive of Windward, said Russia had been learning from Iran and North Korea over the past six months on how to circumvent sanctions.

He said: “We are seeing a growing cycle of learning and adoption of Russian fleet and Russian connected parties.”*

The spike in dark activity in the south Atlantic had followed a smaller, and since reversed, period of activity in the north Atlantic, between May and August, he said.

Lloyd’s List then published a report at the end of July suggesting that five Chinese-owned ships were being used to transfer Russian oil at a hub about 860 nautical miles west of Portugal’s coast.

“Immediately we see a change of pattern,” said Daniel. “That’s when we see the uptick in the south Atlantic. These are known methods to avoid sanctions.”









‘Dark activities’ of Russian-linked oil tankers have doubled, analysis shows


Maritime intelligence firm points to rise in tankers switching off trackers for sanctions-busting transfers




www.theguardian.com













Russian oil sanctions fuel boom for old tankers


The market for old oil tankers is booming, and it's all down to efforts by Western nations to curb trade in Russian crude.




www.reuters.com






https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/12/08/russia-oil-sanctions-tankers-safety/

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russia Seeks to Boost Recognition of its Shipping Insurance to Dodge Sanctions​ 
November 30, 2022

Moscow is seeking to bolster the recognition of Russian maritime cargo insurance to allow it to ship oil and related products abroad in the face of Western sanctions, a government official was quoted as saying on Tuesday.

Western sanctions imposed in response to Russia’s military campaign in Ukraine have restricted Russia’s ability to secure costly liability insurance for its ships – a segment requiring financial heft and dominated by European reinsurers, in which Russia has little experience or capacity.

Deputy Transport Minister Alexander Poshivay, speaking at a China-Russia energy conference in Moscow, acknowledged the challenges faced by Russian shippers.

In addition to a lack of access to insurance services traditionally provided by European and U.S. companies, they had also had to deal with non-recognition of certificates issued by Russian insurers and the Russian National Reinsurance Company because Lloyd’s syndicates had declared Russian waters a war risk zone.


European Union and Group of Seven governments have been trying to agree on a price cap for Russian seaborne crude oil – which represents some 70%-85% of Russia’s crude exports – to restrict Moscow’s ability to finance its campaign in Ukraine.


The main tool to enforce it would be prohibiting shipping, insurance and re-insurance companies from handling cargoes of Russian crude around the globe, unless they had been sold for less than the cap set by the G7 and its allies.


Poshivay said Russian state-flagged vessels now being denied insurance by Western companies were being insured with Russian insurance companies and reinsured with the Russian National Reinsurance Company, according to Interfax.





*The news agency quoted him as saying that Turkey recognized Russian insurance of maritime cargo, and that India and China recognized most Russian insurance, but not all.


“The issue (of recognition of Russian insurance) is to be worked out with the whole world,” Poshivay said, adding that the specific conditions “are determined by intergovernmental agreements.”


No comment was immediately available from Turkish, Indian or Chinese authorities. However, a source at a Turkish shipping company said Turkish authorities had not given any instructions or unofficial guidance on recognizing Russian insurance.


Poshivay suggested that China for one should recognize the certificates issued by Russian maritime insurance and reinsurance companies as guarantees of risk coverage.*


He said that in the first nine months of this year, the Russian Federation had increased seaborne exports of hydrocarbons to China by 25%, to 87 million tonnes.


(Reporting by Reuters; additional reporting by Can Sezer in Turkey; editing by Jan Harvey)


Source: https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2022/11/30/696909.htm

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> comparable to marauding settlers with arms and tanks who are backed by Western empire in order to uproot and confiscate the lands and homes of the indigenous people in the Holy Land?





Actually we where there a few thousands years earlier , do consult your Quran.

It is also prophesized there , that before the end of days , the children of Israel will return to the promised land. Now you complain that your own prophecies are fulfilled. Strange.

Arabs are not the indigenous people to the land of Israel. They immigrated to the land of Israel from neighboring Arab countries.

This does not mean of course that they do not deserve a state.

But they blew that chance , when they refused the state offered to them in 1948 , and rejected a two states solution . Which was the only logical and just solution at that time.

Instead they decided to go to war , the bitter fruits of this decision we eat till this day.


~

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The sanctions are already getting busted before they even came to effect. But of coursse you can continue believing in your fairy tale.
> 
> "*The monthly average of both so-called dark activities and ship-to-ship operations in the south Atlantic doubled in the September to November period compared with the previous three months, according to an analysis of movements by the maritime intelligence company Windward. There were around 35 incidents of ‘dark activity’ in September, nearly 50 in October and numbers dipped to just over 40 in November.
> 
> Tankers able to hide any Russian links, by illicit transfers mid-ocean, would hope to avoid any price attestation of their cargo.
> 
> Ami Daniel, the chief executive of Windward, said Russia had been learning from Iran and North Korea over the past six months on how to circumvent sanctions.
> 
> He said: “We are seeing a growing cycle of learning and adoption of Russian fleet and Russian connected parties.”*
> 
> The spike in dark activity in the south Atlantic had followed a smaller, and since reversed, period of activity in the north Atlantic, between May and August, he said.
> 
> Lloyd’s List then published a report at the end of July suggesting that five Chinese-owned ships were being used to transfer Russian oil at a hub about 860 nautical miles west of Portugal’s coast.
> 
> “Immediately we see a change of pattern,” said Daniel. “That’s when we see the uptick in the south Atlantic. These are known methods to avoid sanctions.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Dark activities’ of Russian-linked oil tankers have doubled, analysis shows
> 
> 
> Maritime intelligence firm points to rise in tankers switching off trackers for sanctions-busting transfers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian oil sanctions fuel boom for old tankers
> 
> 
> The market for old oil tankers is booming, and it's all down to efforts by Western nations to curb trade in Russian crude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/12/08/russia-oil-sanctions-tankers-safety/


So, literally you have no point. Other than your wild believe of whatever Kremlin feed you.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603891015152279553


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603304052321828864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603471139816308736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603878473323397121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603772075910602755

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603890016173920256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603816293211279360

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## Vergennes

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603304052321828864



This was already proven to be a Russian S300 as geolocated to a Russian held area back then.


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## TopGun786

You did not mention other prophecies of Quran about "children of Israel" , facts and realities mentioned by Quran about you, your past activities and your future mentioned by Quran and Hadith. 
I bet you know each of those, don't you? 
And white settlers are real children of Israel? That's another debate. So far they are just migrants from different European and other countries who love to genocide local Palestinians and have pride in grabbing and stealing their lands and homes. 


sammuel said:


> Actually we where there a few thousands years earlier , do consult your Quran.
> 
> It is also prophesized there , that before the end of days , the children of Israel will return to the promised land. Now you complain that your own prophecies are fulfilled. Strange.
> 
> Arabs are not the indigenous people to the land of Israel. They immigrated to the land of Israel from neighboring Arab countries.
> 
> This does not mean of course that they do not deserve a state.
> 
> But they blew that chance , when they refused the state offered to them in 1948 , and rejected a two states solution . Which was the only logical and just solution at that time.
> 
> Instead they decided to go to war , the bitter fruits of this decision we eat till this day.

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## The SC

A new big Russian attack on the electricity grid of Ukraine..

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## Viet

One shot


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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Some people died ? Sad. That is an oppressive government. So thanks for the background. Yes, please do post the vids especially from February this year on though I wonder how you can access RT vids.


Well, in the evil oppressive west every man and women can protest. Even racists, rightists, leftists, facists, gays, environmentalists, idiots including the “kids of last generation”. The latter love to nail their hands on streets. They stop people from going to work.

Try do that in Putin’s paradise. If you land in gulags and return in once piece alive after years then you are a lucky person.

Your choice

However my friend western freedom has limits.

RT is a cheap russian propaganda broadcaster. And as such it is forbidden.

Everything is tolerable but not cheap foreign propaganda.

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Well, in the evil oppressive west every man and women can protest.



Yes, they have the right to protest, and get killed by the police, or jailed under some "traitor to the nation" law. 



Viet said:


> Even racists, rightists, leftists, facists, gays, environmentalists, idiots including the “kids of last generation”. The latter love to nail their hands on streets. They stop people from going to work.



Yes, they do that but irrational citizens who align with the Capitalist and NATO-imperialist government help the government in throwing them off the road. These protesters are protesting for the current and future of every citizen of France, Europe and world but those irrational other citizens just, as you said, "want to go to work" which their parents did and these people's children will and so will their children. A never-ending cycle of dog-eat-dog Capitalism where people must "pay the bills" for even basic food, water, housing, electricity, telecom, healthcare, education, public transport etc, things that in Communist and Socialist societies are provided by the system for free. The below incident I came to know from Indian TV news as being a protest by workers who want raise in their wages because France's socio-economic system is beset with raised costs in everything and these workers' salaries make life difficult :








Furious Parisians forcefully remove disruptive climate activist


France has been crippled with road blockades for months by climate activists who have drawn inspiration from Just Stop Oil protesters' modus operandi.




www.express.co.uk





During the Sri Lanka crisis some months ago there was a superb tweet by a Sri Lankan shown on the fine Indian TV news show Prime Time with Ravish which is no longer there because its channel, NDTV, has been taken over by Modi's Capitalist patron Adani so Ravish has left NDTV ( we must admire Ravish's ideological committment ). The tweet said that in Sri Lanka two working class people are fighting each other while the rich class remains unworried and benefits from the intra-working-class fight. That is what happened in the scene in France above.



Viet said:


> Try do that in Putin’s paradise. If you land in gulags and return in once piece alive after years then you are a lucky person.
> 
> Your choice



Are there gulags in Russia anymore ? And in USSR there were to correct people. I see what happens in India every day and I wonder if these irrational, sociopathic and criminal people were in the USSR they would be rightfully sent to a gulag to take time to reflect and reform.



Viet said:


> However my friend western freedom has limits.



Oho ! How is "Western freedom limits" different from "Putin's oppression of citizens" ?

I was on a big Western platform until a month ago and I used to talk about Communism, Capitalism, Indian corporate immorality, dog attacks and yes, Ukraine and Israel. I think for these two last things I was banned multiple times and I recreated new accounts and I was banned, and then I simply abandoned that platform. So where went this hyped up "Freedom of expression and democracy" that NATO thumps up in the United Nations Terrorist Council again and again and again ?



Viet said:


> RT is a cheap russian propaganda broadcaster. And as such it is forbidden.
> 
> Everything is tolerable but not cheap foreign propaganda.



1. By using the word "cheap" you are propagating an influence of Capitalist brainwashing.

2. How is RT unacceptable to you but BBC, Daily Fail, Yahoo News etc are not ?

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> You can feel how he is panicking on the prospect Patriots are delivered to Ukraine. He tries badmouthing everything. Training would take too long too late. Patriots missiles are useless against mighty Russia missiles anyway. Ukraine would lose badly. Bla bla bla.


Yes its a full on panic the he starts talking about patriots. He is very very worried about the patriots. And he should be.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604028000596434945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604032377105580032

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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> In Russia, there’s no mechanicalness to simple things like interaction with a traffic cop that you can experience in protestant countries. Instead it’s unpredictable for you both.
> Living in Russia you’re being subjected to this sort of scrutiny as strangers try to appraise how to relate to you from the position of strength or weakness. The best strategy to adopt a big boss loud and confident voice then it’s immediately clear you are the strong one in the interaction.


What is this? some protestant having a love affair with himself? However and russia is, its not even close to being as bad as America where a traffic stop can easily escalate to a summary execution depending on your skin colour. 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> In Russia, laws is for suckers.


Rule of law in America is abysmal. 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Genuine refugees who needed protection arrived in the Ottoman Empire, bought land and started to farm. They were exemplary citizen according to the Ottomans and were attacked by Arab hooligans forcing them to arm themselves.
> It is not surprising that someone that refuses to acknowledge the historic truth, support the lies of Russia and rejoices in the misery of others.


you really have no idea have you. 


sammuel said:


> Arabs are not the indigenous people to the land of Israel. They immigrated to the land of Israel from neighboring Arab countries.
> 
> This does not mean of course that they do not deserve a state.
> 
> But they blew that chance , when they refused the state offered to them in 1948 , and rejected a two states solution . Which was the only logical and just solution at that time.
> 
> Instead they decided to go to war , the bitter fruits of this decision we eat till this day.


you dont need to justify what you have done, noone believes you not even most westerners anymore. Just enjoy your land gift from the Anglo-Saxon empire and have fun while it lasts. 


Viet said:


> Well, in the evil oppressive west every man and women can protest. Even racists, rightists, leftists, facists, gays, environmentalists, idiots including the “kids of last generation”. The latter love to nail their hands on streets. They stop people from going to work.
> 
> Try do that in Putin’s paradise. If you land in gulags and return in once piece alive after years then you are a lucky person.


you only get freedom to protest in the west if your thoughts are sanctioned by the western government. You will be jailed in the west for telling the facts. 


Viet said:


> However my friend western freedom has limits.


Indeed it has, Huge limits.

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## ZeGerman

thetutle said:


> Yes its a full on panic the he starts talking about patriots. He is very very worried about the patriots. And he should be.


Cant they do a background check on where Ritter gets his views/funds from, (then hang him as a traitor) i mean and then fine/jail him?

I have extremely low tolerance for those who abuse freedom of expression and journalism to betray and undermine their own country. Filthy parasites.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604058622207606786


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## Viet

thetutle said:


> Yes its a full on panic the he starts talking about patriots. He is very very worried about the patriots. And he should be.


Giving patriots will give Ukraine air defense to capability to strike Russia terror bombers at long distance.

Until now Putin’s bombers as Tu95 fire missiles at civil infra out of Ukraine air space. Without fearing any consequences. They will be the targets. That’s why the Kremlin is in panic mode.

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## Vergennes

Viet said:


> Giving patriots will give Ukraine air defense to capability to strike Russia terror bombers at long distance.
> 
> Until now Putin’s bombers as Tu95 fire missiles at civil infra out of Ukraine air space. Without fearing any consequences. They will be the targets. That’s why the Kremlin is in panic mode.



Javelin isn't a game changer, stinger isn't a game changer, himars isn't a game changer, HARM aren't a game changer, IRIS T aren't a game changer, Patriots aren't a game changer... and so on.


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## thetutle

ZeGerman said:


> Cant they do a background check on where Ritter gets his views/funds from, (then hang him as a traitor) i mean and then fine/jail him?
> 
> I have extremely low tolerance for those who abuse freedom of expression and journalism to betray and undermine their own country. Filthy parasites.



Yes its pretty annoying listening to stuff like that and people like that. For one we can assume some things about him. He's a spy and has worked for the US in some capacity. Thats pretty much all we can assume about Ritter. Everything else including his sexual convictions we can say hmmmm, ok, maybe. 

So could be that he's still a US asset, or could be he's a Moscow asset or could be that he's both. He's married a russian lady, who's also probably a spy. and he's clearly following a Moscow script sheet. but he could be a double agent, who knows. He could be a false voice of dissent used to flush out the Moscow funded stooges. 

Even if he's now loyal to Moscow, you cant just lock up every person speaking against the government. not even Putin does that, there will always be renegades and dissenters. 

If he really is a russian asset, you down want to arrest and close down the whole financing system, as its being followed and tracked and to dismantle it now, you would just encourage Moscow to set up new systems you are able to easily track. 

Same story with colonel McGregor. He could be the same thing. opening up channels to Russians, helping the CIA work out who the Russian recruiters are etc, even flushing out the current military personnel who have russian sympathies. 

the colonel is hard to read, but when Ritter speaks, I know he does not believe a word he's saying when he's taking about russia winning.



Viet said:


> Giving patriots will give Ukraine air defense to capability to strike Russia terror bombers at long distance.
> 
> Until now Putin’s bombers as Tu95 fire missiles at civil infra out of Ukraine air space. Without fearing any consequences. They will be the targets. That’s why the Kremlin is in panic mode.


Of course they are. Turkey doesnt even have patriots. They wouldn't give ti to turkey for all the money in the world. Ukraine is armed better than a NATO ally.

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> Javelin isn't a game changer, stinger isn't a game changer, himars isn't a game changer, HARM aren't a game changer, IRIS T aren't a game changer, Patriots aren't a game changer... and so on.


Should Germany change heart and deliver Leopard 2 tanks then the Russians have nothing to worry. Those tanks won’t be game changer.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604121741999341569
Excellent article on Putins disaster in Ukraine

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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> What is this? some protestant having a love affair with himself? However and russia is, its not even close to being as bad as America where a traffic stop can easily escalate to a summary execution depending on your skin colour.


What is this?
This is a Russian sharing his experience of Russia.
What has traffic in the US to do with the War in Ukraine?


----------



## Ali_Baba

Wagner Group leader in intensive care after being blown up


A senior executive in Russia's Wagner Group has been seriously injured after being blown up by a parcel bomb in the Central African Republic.




www.express.co.uk






F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604121741999341569
> Excellent article on Putins disaster in Ukraine



Nice article - thankfully as we go into 2023 - the Russians have not fixed any of their strategic issues !!!



> The eavesdroppers passed the details to Ukraine’s armed forces to carry out ambushes and counterattacks. Maj. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, the head of Ukraine’s military intelligence, said Ukrainian forces used cellphone signals and even TikTok videos to target a unit of Chechen soldiers known as the Kadyrovtsy, named for the strongman leader of Chechnya, Ramzan Kadyrov.
> 
> It took 40 minutes from the time one video was uploaded to pinpoint the unit’s location near the Hostomel airport northwest of Kyiv, Mr. Budanov said. The Ukrainian military then hit them with three Tochka-U ballistic missiles, he said.



How the tiktokkers got whacked ...



> And there is the unit commanded by the Chechen leader, Mr. Kadyrov — whose fighters were found and attacked because of their misadventures on TikTok.

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## Ali_Baba

Conscription period lengthened for Russian men amidst Ukraine war


Lt-Col Mikhail Fotin (pictured) said that Russian men aged 18 to 27 will be called up for one and a half years starting from spring 2023, and two years from the autumn recruitment next year.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Oh dear - special operation is going so well for Russia ..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604188187856977920

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604208035316236288

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> You can feel how he is panicking on the prospect Patriots are delivered to Ukraine. He tries badmouthing everything. Training would take too long too late. Patriots missiles are useless against mighty Russia missiles anyway. Ukraine would lose badly. Bla bla bla.



LOL, you are as delusional and self-back-patter as Modi's people here in India. The Ukrainian army chief and NATO chief are saying that Russian military should not be underestimated but here you are, blowing the bugle for Patriots.



thetutle said:


> you only get freedom to protest in the west if your thoughts are sanctioned by the western government. You will be jailed in the west for telling the facts.





thetutle said:


> Indeed it has, Huge limits.





thetutle said:


> Yes its pretty annoying listening to stuff like that and people like that. For one we can assume some things about him. He's a spy and has worked for the US in some capacity. Thats pretty much all we can assume about Ritter. Everything else including his sexual convictions we can say hmmmm, ok, maybe.
> 
> So could be that he's still a US asset, or could be he's a Moscow asset or could be that he's both. He's married a russian lady, who's also probably a spy. and he's clearly following a Moscow script sheet. but he could be a double agent, who knows. He could be a false voice of dissent used to flush out the Moscow funded stooges.
> 
> Even if he's now loyal to Moscow, you cant just lock up every person speaking against the government. not even Putin does that, there will always be renegades and dissenters.
> 
> If he really is a russian asset, you down want to arrest and close down the whole financing system, as its being followed and tracked and to dismantle it now, you would just encourage Moscow to set up new systems you are able to easily track.
> 
> Same story with colonel McGregor. He could be the same thing. opening up channels to Russians, helping the CIA work out who the Russian recruiters are etc, even flushing out the current military personnel who have russian sympathies.
> 
> the colonel is hard to read, but when Ritter speaks, I know he does not believe a word he's saying when he's taking about russia winning.



TheTutle, you give mixed signals here. Are you with Western governments or against Western governments ?



ZeGerman said:


> Cant they do a background check on where Ritter gets his views/funds from, (then hang him as a traitor) i mean and then fine/jail him?
> 
> I have extremely low tolerance for those who abuse freedom of expression and journalism to betray and undermine their own country. Filthy parasites.



I have extremely low tolerance of fascists like you who are anti-human, irrational and zombie war mongers.



Ali_Baba said:


> Conscription period lengthened for Russian men amidst Ukraine war
> 
> 
> Lt-Col Mikhail Fotin (pictured) said that Russian men aged 18 to 27 will be called up for one and a half years starting from spring 2023, and two years from the autumn recruitment next year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Oh dear - special operation is going so well for Russia ..



The Daily Fail did not mention that the UkroNazi government of Our Holy Boi Zelensky had right on February 24th prohibited any Ukrainian over between 18 and 60 from leaving the country, seeing them as cannon fodder against Russian and allied forces. There was at least on vid posted either in this thread or the part 1 where Ukrainian males were being kidnapped from the streets by Zelensky's thugs to serve in the military. Many draftees released vids including those where these Ukrainians stood in their unit and spoke. Many who spoke were never heard from again.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Exhibit A that Russian does not evolve from the same species as humanity


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604124392690163724

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604214989111169024

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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> What is this?
> This is a Russian sharing his experience of Russia.
> What has traffic in the US to do with the War in Ukraine?



The article was talking abut the rule of law in Russia. I just think there is a lack of rule of law all over the west as well. Of course less petty corruption but major major corruption. Look at Sweden charging Julian Assange over raping a CIA asset. Major corruption even in Sweden a country most clueless people think is beyond reproach. 



jamahir said:


> TheTutle, you give mixed signals here. Are you with Western governments or against Western governments ?



I'm just saying facts. Its not my fault they give mixed signals. 

Muslims in the west are second class citizens. Very few civil and religious rights. They probably have better rights in russia. So I'm just saying it like I perceive it. 

Now, I live in the west, and the corruption and injustice will probably drive me away from it. But just because the west is broken does not mean I want europe ruled by russia. 

As a European, I can confirm that whatever system europe has from time to time, from medieval kings to nazism, it is always more preferable to being ruled by russia. Always.


----------



## The SC

The real objective of the Russian army in Bakhmut is not to only to take the city, (although hat would be OK too).. but mainly to destroy the best of the AFU..i.e, the Elite forces defending the city..
They are also targetting the S-300 systems defending Eastern and Southern Ukraine..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> Actually we where there a few thousands years earlier , do consult your Quran.
> 
> It is also prophesized there , that before the end of days , the children of Israel will return to the promised land. Now you complain that your own prophecies are fulfilled. Strange.
> 
> Arabs are not the indigenous people to the land of Israel. They immigrated to the land of Israel from neighboring Arab countries.
> 
> This does not mean of course that they do not deserve a state.
> 
> But they blew that chance , when they refused the state offered to them in 1948 , and rejected a two states solution . Which was the only logical and just solution at that time.
> 
> Instead they decided to go to war , the bitter fruits of this decision we eat till this day.
> 
> 
> ~




A Hindutva Pajeet wants to have his opinions in Palestine. Sorry you can try as much as you want, but we aint entertaining your nonsense,.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Cant they do a background check on where Ritter gets his views/funds from, (then hang him as a traitor) i mean and then fine/jail him?
> 
> I have extremely low tolerance for those who abuse freedom of expression and journalism to betray and undermine their own country. Filthy parasites.



I am glad you're having nightmares over his views. Let us hope he continues to share his views and you continue to hear them.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604219307847622657

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604249483629715456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604249841277603840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603935184042094592


Spoiler: Dead Ukrainian soldiers litter in their trenches after Russian artilleries caught up with them





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603904368176091137

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603693932004745217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603717687489724416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603906657150541825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604180899125510144

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604249483629715456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604249841277603840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603935184042094592
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Dead Ukrainian soldiers litter in their trenches after Russian artilleries caught up with them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603904368176091137





Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604148072937713664




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604253917730283520


----------



## Stranagor

Germany pushes back on Putin’s ‘blackmail’ with gas terminal


Russian leader miscalculated in thinking he could use energy as a weapon in Ukraine war, says Scholz. Read more at straitstimes.com.




www.straitstimes.com





***

Russia has made quite likely what was previously hard to accomplish: an energy independent Europe with a more diversified import destination.

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## Vergennes

This is how the Russian army informs relatives of a soldier killed in Ukraine. A medal,last belonging in a plastic bag and some papers to sign,that's it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604146760753901569
@Hassan Al-Somal As a great muslim supporter/defender living in the satanic west,how are you reacting and defending the fact Russians are sending their muslim minorities to die in Ukraine as cannon fodder only to fullfil Putin's imperialistic dreams ?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604178698009296898

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604178706511060993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604114214704091137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604114219535941633

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604132616755712000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604232048268349440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604238795225833476

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604237779990454273

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603902322223898625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603902697203126272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603955544565301248

Fierce tank battle in the city of Pervomaiskyi..

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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> The article was talking abut the rule of law in Russia. I just think there is a lack of rule of law all over the west as well. Of course less petty corruption but major major corruption. Look at Sweden charging Julian Assange over raping a CIA asset. Major corruption even in Sweden a country most clueless people think is beyond reproach.



The fact is that Russia is as corrupt as they come, which is relevant to this thread. You engage in Whataboutism to deflect, and then you lie to prove your point.

Julian Assange was never charged with rape by Sweden, He was wanted for questioning after he was reported for rape by two women who were Wikileaks supporters. Accusing them to be CIA assets is simply conspiracy theory.
I suggest you stop the Whataboutism and the lying.

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## Soldier35

Former President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko continues to master foreign military equipment. This time he was spotted on an FV103 Spartan armored personnel carrier made in England. It is not yet known if this is his new purchase of military equipment or if he just rides.






Footage of suppression of a firing point in a building by a Russian tank, presumably a T-80 or T-72 in Ukraine. The location of the battle in Ukraine is not reported.






Footage of the combat work of Russian mobilized military personnel in Ukraine. In the battles in Ukraine, the artillery crew uses the Russian 152-mm D-20 howitzer.






For a long time, nothing was heard about the combat use of the Russian BMPT "Terminator" in Ukraine. A story about the tactics of using BMPT "Terminator" in Ukraine. Subtitles in 27 languages.






An episode of the battle near the village of Pesok. The video has been shortened. Units of the Ukrainian army, consisting of 5 British Mastiff armored vehicles and two T-64BV tanks, attempted to attack the Russian Somali unit. At the beginning of the battle, Mastiff armored vehicles began to maneuver near the Russian positions, firing at them. It is worth noting that at this moment the armored vehicles were a very convenient target, but judging by the video, only one ATGM strike was fired. Perhaps not everyone was shown in the video or there were few ATGMs in the unit. Russian artillery joined the battle and began to process the area. Further, the Mastiff armored vehicles approached the junction of the 11th Donetsk regiment and the Somali battalion for the landing. The Russian unit "Sparta" is connected to the battle and the Ukrainian units begin to retreat. When the Ukrainian units withdrew, they tried to hide in the trenches, but artillery began to hit there. A Ukrainian armored vehicle that came up to evacuate the wounded was put out of action, as it was later found abandoned in a field. As a result of the battle, the Ukrainian units retreated, losing 3 Mastiff armored vehicles and an armored personnel carrier.

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## jamahir

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Exhibit A that Russian does not evolve from the same species as humanity
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604124392690163724



Real Exhibit A : Your NATO-supporter Swedish friend below, talking joyfully in an evil religious trance about burning Russians and Syrians and Belarusians and so on in hell fire :



A.P. Richelieu said:


> ”Verily, God has rejected the deniers of the truth, and has readied for them a blazing fire”.
> 
> View attachment 906419
> 
> 
> It appears that Lockheed-Martin is on a mission from God.
> View attachment 906420
> 
> readying blazing fire for the Russians and their supporters.
> The Ukrainans are the tool of God in this case.



Exhibit B : The virulently anti-Communist Madeleine NotBright declaring openly in 1996 that 500,000 Iraqi children murdered by her government's military and those of its allies was all okay, it was worth it :

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506706179178725379
Exhibit C : 15 years on after Exhibit B, no change in mentality, no cure for that insane bloodlust, Killary Kill-in-tons saying with a dog laugh "We came, we saw, he died" :







Viet said:


> RT is a cheap russian propaganda broadcaster. And as such it is forbidden.
> 
> Everything is tolerable but not cheap foreign propaganda.



Foreign propaganda like this ? 


> U.S. envoy: Gaddafi troops raping, issued Viagra​By Louis Charbonneau
> 3 MIN READ
> 
> UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The U.S. envoy to the United Nations told the Security Council on Thursday that troops loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi were increasingly engaging in sexual violence and some had been issued the impotency drug Viagra, diplomats said.
> 
> Several U.N. diplomats who attended a closed-door Security Council meeting on Libya told Reuters that U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice raised the Viagra issue in the context of increasing reports of sexual violence by Gaddafi’s troops.
> 
> “Rice raised that in the meeting but no one responded,” a diplomat said on condition of anonymity. The allegation was first reported by a British newspaper.
> Pfizer Inc’s drug Viagra is used to treat impotence.
> Diplomats said if it were true that Gaddafi’s troops were being issued Viagra, it could indicate they were being encouraged by their commanders to engage in rape to terrorize the population in areas that have supported the rebels. That would constitute a war crime.
> 
> Several diplomats said Rice provided no evidence for the Viagra allegation, which they said was made in an attempt to persuade doubters the conflict in Libya was not just a standard civil war but a much nastier fight in which Gaddafi is not afraid to order his troops to commit heinous acts.
> 
> “She spoke of reports of soldiers getting Viagra and raping,” a diplomat said. “She spoke of Gaddafi’s soldiers targeting children, and other atrocities.”



And this ?


> The *Khan Shaykhun chemical attack* took place on 4 April 2017 on the town of Khan Shaykhun in the Idlib Governorate of Syria. The town was reported to have been struck by an airstrike by government forces followed by massive civilian chemical poisoning. The release of a toxic gas, which included sarin, or a similar substance,[8] killed at least 89 people and injured more than 541, according to the opposition Idlib Health Directorate. The attack was the deadliest use of chemical weapons in the Syrian civil war since the Ghouta chemical attack in 2013.
> 
> The OPCW-UN Joint Investigative Mechanism attributed the responsibility of the attack to the Syrian government. The OPCW-UN JIM described chemicals that it said linked the sarin used to the Syrian government: "The samples from Khan Shaykhun contain the three types of marker chemicals described above: PF6 [HFP], isopropyl phosphates and isopropyl phosphorofluoridates. Their presence is a strong indicator that the sarin disseminated in Khan Shaykhun was produced from DF from the Syrian Arab Republic stockpile."
> 
> The governments of the United States, United Kingdom, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, France, and Israel as well as Human Rights Watch attributed the attack to the forces of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. The Syrian government said the attack was a "fabrication" while the Russian government claimed that the entire incident was staged.
> 
> On 7 April, the United States launched 59 cruise missiles at Shayrat Air Base, which U.S. intelligence cited as the source of the attack.





thetutle said:


> I'm just saying facts. Its not my fault they give mixed signals.
> 
> Muslims in the west are second class citizens. Very few civil and religious rights. They probably have better rights in russia. So I'm just saying it like I perceive it.
> 
> Now, I live in the west, and the corruption and injustice will probably drive me away from it. But just because the west is broken does not mean I want europe ruled by russia.
> 
> As a European, I can confirm that whatever system europe has from time to time, from medieval kings to nazism, it is always more preferable to being ruled by russia. Always.



So you know the facts yet I don't understand your objection to Russia. And Russia is not imperialist. The North Atlantic Terrorist Organization is since establishment in 1949. Only the next year after establishment it launched an imperialist invasion of DPRK ( North Korea ) and has been doing around the globe ever since.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> A Hindutva Pajeet wants to have his opinions in Palestine. Sorry you can try as much as you want, but we aint entertaining your nonsense,.



No, @sammuel is Israeli, possibly Jew, seems a good person but unfortunately brainwashed himself to become a member of that idiotic Hare Krishna movement whose front, the ISKCON society, preaches the Hindu holy book Bhagwad Gita which was brought to trial in Russia 11 years in 2011 and called for a ban because the academics there said it preaches hatred and violence against humanity, does misogyny, denigrates humanity on various grounds, is against other groups in society and is essentially an extremist book :








Bhagavad Gita As It Is trial in Russia - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Well, it wasn't banned in Russia because of pressure from Indian government.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603935184042094592



"Sound-thermal reconnaissance system that detects and transmits artillery positions"... Russia is very good at new types of weapons, as was USSR. Sad that Russian minds are being forced by NATO to invest their ideas in weaponry. Russia could do so much in space exploration and enhancing human longevity.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603693932004745217



Contrary to the NATO propagandists here Russia has been very kind to Ukrainian cities. If Russia wanted Kiev and other cities would have seen massive bombardment right from February 24th. Russia did the grave mistake of not bombarding Ukrainian power stations because it would have cut off military production and UkroNazi bureaucracy. And Zelensky cannot claim that Russia doing this would harm ordinary Ukrainian citizens because not only had Zelensky for eight long years been murdering Ukrainians ( as he contradictorily called them ) in the Eastern region until February 24 but since the Russian operation began he also unleashed a reign of terror and war crime not only against opposition groups but against ordinary citizens by siting rocket fire trucks in school grounds and residential areas, hosting foreign psychos in residential buildings, siting military command centers in hospitals and residential buildings, shooting up citizens just passing by in vehicles etc other than kidnapping males to force them into his military to fill his voracious UkroNazi lust for Russian and Syrian blood. And then his people went about torturing anyone they found not "sufficient patriotic" ( patriotism according to their Nazi insanity ) and tied them up to poles beside roads and sprayed harmful paint on them, removed their clothes and flogged them and kicked them.



Vergennes said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal As a great muslim supporter/defender living in the satanic west,how are you reacting and defending the fact Russians are sending their muslim minorities to die in Ukraine as cannon fodder only to fullfil Putin's imperialistic dreams ?



Every true Muslim must support Russia.

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## Oldman1

@jhungary 

I hope this is true.

Russians already using cluster munitions even in cities since the start of the war. Ukraine is requesting them since then to help use against the Russians for many months. This would help inflict massive casualties. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600741515491692545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604208852169363458

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Real Exhibit A : Your NATO-supporter Swedish friend below, talking joyfully in an evil religious trance about burning Russians and Syrians and Belarusians and so on in hell fire :
> 
> 
> 
> Exhibit B : The virulently anti-Communist Madeleine NotBright declaring openly in 1996 that 500,000 Iraqi children murdered by her government's military and those of its allies was all okay, it was worth it :
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506706179178725379
> Exhibit C : 15 years on after Exhibit B, no change in mentality, no cure for that insane bloodlust, Killary Kill-in-tons saying with a dog laugh "We came, we saw, he died" :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign propaganda like this ?
> 
> 
> And this ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you know the facts yet I don't understand your objection to Russia. And Russia is not imperialist. The North Atlantic Terrorist Organization is since establishment in 1949. Only the next year after establishment it launched an imperialist invasion of DPRK ( North Korea ) and has been doing around the globe ever since.
> 
> 
> 
> No, @sammuel is Israeli, possibly Jew, seems a good person but unfortunately brainwashed himself to become a member of that idiotic Hare Krishna movement whose front, the ISKCON society, preaches the Hindu holy book Bhagwad Gita which was brought to trial in Russia 11 years in 2011 and called for a ban because the academics there said it preaches hatred and violence against humanity, does misogyny, denigrates humanity on various grounds, is against other groups in society and is essentially an extremist book :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bhagavad Gita As It Is trial in Russia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it wasn't banned in Russia because of pressure from Indian government.
> 
> 
> 
> "Sound-thermal reconnaissance system that detects and transmits artillery positions"... Russia is very good at new types of weapons, as was USSR. Sad that Russian minds are being forced by NATO to invest their ideas in weaponry. Russia could do so much in space exploration and enhancing human longevity.
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to the NATO propagandists here Russia has been very kind to Ukrainian cities. If Russia wanted Kiev and other cities would have seen massive bombardment right from February 24th. Russia did the grave mistake of not bombarding Ukrainian power stations because it would have cut off military production and UkroNazi bureaucracy. And Zelensky cannot claim that Russia doing this would harm ordinary Ukrainian citizens because not only had Zelensky for eight long years been murdering Ukrainians ( as he contradictorily called them ) in the Eastern region until February 24 but since the Russian operation began he also unleashed a reign of terror and war crime not only against opposition groups but against ordinary citizens by siting rocket fire trucks in school grounds and residential areas, hosting foreign psychos in residential buildings, siting military command centers in hospitals and residential buildings, shooting up citizens just passing by in vehicles etc other than kidnapping males to force them into his military to fill his voracious UkroNazi lust for Russian and Syrian blood. And then his people went about torturing anyone they found not "sufficient patriotic" ( patriotism according to their Nazi insanity ) and tied them up to poles beside roads and sprayed harmful paint on them, removed their clothes and flogged them and kicked them.
> 
> 
> 
> Every true Muslim must support Russia.


The comparison is inappropriate.

Russia seeks more lands more territory more people more resources. And as such it is an imperialist per definition.

NATO is a defense pact. Ok, it seeks the expansion of the territory it covers, however all nations within the pact are equal. Every single country has a veto right. The US has the same vote as Lithuania.

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## sammuel

jamahir said:


> No, @sammuel is Israeli, possibly Jew, seems a good person but unfortunately brainwashed himself to become a member of that idiotic Hare Krishna movement whose front, the ISKCON society, preaches the Hindu holy book Bhagwad Gita which was brought to trial in Russia 11 years in 2011 and called for a ban because the academics there said it preaches hatred and violence against humanity, does misogyny, denigrates humanity on various grounds, is against other groups in society and is essentially an extremist book :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bhagavad Gita As It Is trial in Russia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it wasn't banned in Russia because of pressure from Indian government.



Bhagavad Gita does make an interesting read , but using Krishna avatar does not make one a Krishna follower. And you got to admit , no ones draws avatars and Gods better than the Indians.

Beads, flowers, freedom, happiness :


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604384745206398977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604403639732273152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604399781090152451

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> This is how the Russian army informs relatives of a soldier killed in Ukraine. A medal,last belonging in a plastic bag and some papers to sign,that's it.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604146760753901569
> @Hassan Al-Somal As a great muslim supporter/defender living in the satanic west,how are you reacting and defending the fact Russians are sending their muslim minorities to die in Ukraine as cannon fodder only to fullfil Putin's imperialistic dreams ?




Muslims in Russia are Russian citizens, PERIOD. They're fighting for their country. And in this instance, the Russian military is informing the mother of a gallant Russian hero who made the ultimate sacrifice for his country: a martyr. 

Irrespective of how low the Western propagandists like you to mock the death of Russian soldiers, they're fighting a just cause and are confronting the armies of the empire of the Antichrist.

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## Stranagor

Ukraine latest: Germany marks milestone in reducing Russian gas with floating terminal


New EU sanctions ban exports of drone engines to Russia




asia.nikkei.com





Russia worked three decades to build energy market with Europe, and did away with it in less than a year.

The winners are those alternative energy providers.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Muslims in Russia are Russian citizens, PERIOD. They're fighting for their country. And in this instance, the Russian military is informing the mother of a gallant Russian hero who made the ultimate sacrifice for his country: a martyr.
> 
> Irrespective of how low the Western propagandists like you to mock the death of Russian soldiers, they're fighting a just cause and are confronting the armies of the empire of the Antichrist.



Ask 10 Russians why are they fighting in Ukraine each of them will give you a different answer spare me the "martyr" and "antichrist" BS.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604351512943239168

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 1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604393937787133952

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604258412488966146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604159656976617473


Vergennes said:


> Ask 10 Russians why are they fighting in Ukraine each of them will give you a different answer spare me the "martyr" and "antichrist" BS.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604351512943239168



Russian soldiers are carrying out the orders of the head of the state of their country. And as we can all see, they're inflicting heavy casualties on the cannon fodder of the empire of the Antichrist. You can chat shit all day against Russia and Russian soldiers, but truth is they're fighting a just cause. 

Meanwhile, those newly-donated M777 howitzers to Ukraine are getting busted. Yippee👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604152449132019713

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603867757996564501

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603772233050120192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604331240013824000


----------



## SIPRA

War, at the front, has entered into a stalemate mode, with more or less stabilized fronts.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604185854179790849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604185857652654080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604185859578032128

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## Hack-Hook

Stranagor said:


> Ukraine latest: Germany marks milestone in reducing Russian gas with floating terminal
> 
> 
> New EU sanctions ban exports of drone engines to Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asia.nikkei.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia worked three decades to build energy market with Europe, and did away with it in less than a year.
> 
> The winners are those alternative energy providers.


Not exactly right now the winner is usa



SIPRA said:


> War, at the front, has entered into a stalemate mode, with more or less stabilized fronts.


Not stalemate phase, it's meat grinding phase

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604180905446211586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604178704678195202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604403921346531328


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604429005779763200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604425793278513153


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604134747277590529

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604412825463508992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604400115283738624

Reactions: Like Like:
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## 1ndy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Muslims in Russia are Russian citizens, PERIOD. They're fighting for their country. And in this instance, the Russian military is informing the mother of a gallant Russian hero who made the ultimate sacrifice for his country: a martyr.
> 
> Irrespective of how low the Western propagandists like you to mock the death of Russian soldiers, they're fighting a just cause and are confronting the armies of the empire of the Antichrist.


Americans fight for their land and causes. British fight for theirs and so others... Same as russian heros...


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604438467106131968

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The sanctions are already getting busted before they even came to effect. But of coursse you can continue believing in your fairy tale.
> 
> "*The monthly average of both so-called dark activities and ship-to-ship operations in the south Atlantic doubled in the September to November period compared with the previous three months, according to an analysis of movements by the maritime intelligence company Windward. There were around 35 incidents of ‘dark activity’ in September, nearly 50 in October and numbers dipped to just over 40 in November.
> 
> Tankers able to hide any Russian links, by illicit transfers mid-ocean, would hope to avoid any price attestation of their cargo.
> 
> Ami Daniel, the chief executive of Windward, said Russia had been learning from Iran and North Korea over the past six months on how to circumvent sanctions.
> 
> He said: “We are seeing a growing cycle of learning and adoption of Russian fleet and Russian connected parties.”*
> 
> The spike in dark activity in the south Atlantic had followed a smaller, and since reversed, period of activity in the north Atlantic, between May and August, he said.
> 
> Lloyd’s List then published a report at the end of July suggesting that five Chinese-owned ships were being used to transfer Russian oil at a hub about 860 nautical miles west of Portugal’s coast.
> 
> “Immediately we see a change of pattern,” said Daniel. “That’s when we see the uptick in the south Atlantic. These are known methods to avoid sanctions.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Dark activities’ of Russian-linked oil tankers have doubled, analysis shows
> 
> 
> Maritime intelligence firm points to rise in tankers switching off trackers for sanctions-busting transfers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian oil sanctions fuel boom for old tankers
> 
> 
> The market for old oil tankers is booming, and it's all down to efforts by Western nations to curb trade in Russian crude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/12/08/russia-oil-sanctions-tankers-safety/



Actually, they are not busted, but Putin has begun to resort to pariah state tactics, which is well known. Hence, even those vessels manipulating their AIS or those carrying the documents of other scrapped ships are eventually tracked. It is line a game of cat and mouse, the mouse has to devise new strategies to survive. That's a downward spiral.


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> NATO is a defense pact. Ok, it seeks the expansion of the territory it covers



And "defense" should mean genociding, destroying, assassinating, giving cancers and regime-changing around the globe for the last 73 years of its existence ?



Viet said:


> However all nations within the pact are equal. Every single country has a veto right. The US has the same vote as Lithuania.



In India every 18-aged and above citizen has the right to equal vote, doesn't mean India is an actual democracy. 



Viet said:


> The comparison is inappropriate.
> 
> Russia seeks more lands more territory more people more resources. And as such it is an imperialist per definition.



Umm, people welcome Russia but don't for NATO. In Germany and Japan many people protest against NATO / American military bases and want their expulsion. About your point just above that all members in the NATO pact are equal, doesn't matter because Germany's government is part of NATO and Japan's government is an unofficial member of NATO but their people protest against NATO presence in their countries and in context of the Ukraine war the Germans want their country to re-engage with Russia because of current and soon-coming problems in food, house heating and other things.



sammuel said:


> Bhagavad Gita does make an interesting read



I don't want to. I have the Quran, the Modern Communist and progressive works including The Communist Manifesto whose one slogan is "Workers of the world, unite ! " and Muammar Gaddafi's Green Book and the words of the Indian revolutionary Bhagat Singh who was hanged by the British colonial government in 1931 when he was 24 and who for example wrote this sensitive, very thoughtful, elaborate, empathetic and full-of-intellect essay called "Why I am an atheist" whose some sections I post below :


> They offered to release me on condition that I gave a statement on the activities of the Revolutionary Party. In this way I would be set free and even rewarded and I would not be produced as an approver in the court. I could not help laughing at their proposals. It was all humbug. People who have ideas like ours do not throw bombs at their own innocent people. One day, Mr Newman, the then senior Superintendent of CID, came to me. After a long talk which was full of sympathetic words, he imparted to me what he considered to be sad news, that if I did not give any statement as demanded by them, they would be forced to send me up for trial for conspiracy to wage war in connection with Kakori Case and also for brutal killings in Dussehra gathering. After that he said that he had sufficient evidence to get me convicted and hanged.
> 
> I was completely innocent, but I believed that the police had sufficient power to do it if they desired it to be so. The same day some police officers persuaded me to offer my prayers to God two times regularly. I was an atheist. I thought that I would settle it to myself whether I could brag only in days of peace and happiness that I was an atheist, or in those hard times I could be steadfast in my convictions. After a long debate with myself, I reached the conclusion that I could not even pretend to be a believer nor could I offer my prayers to God. No, I never did it. It was time of trial and I would come out of it successful. These were my thoughts. Never for a moment did I desire to save my life.





> First of all we all know what the judgement will be. It is to be pronounced in a week or so. I am going to sacrifice my life for a cause. What more consolation can there be! A God-believing Hindu may expect to be reborn a king; a Muslim or a Christian might dream of the luxuries he hopes to enjoy in paradise as a reward for his sufferings and sacrifices. What hope should I entertain? I know that will be the end when the rope is tightened round my neck and the rafters move from under my feet. To use more precise religious terminology, that will be the moment of utter annihilation. My soul will come to nothing. If I take the courage to take the matter in the light of ‘Reward’, I see that a short life of struggle with no such magnificent end shall itself be my ‘Reward.’ That is all. Without any selfish motive of getting any reward here or in the hereafter, quite disinterestedly have I devoted my life to the cause of freedom. I could not act otherwise.
> 
> The day shall usher in a new era of liberty when a large number of men and women, taking courage from the idea of serving humanity and liberating them from sufferings and distress, decide that there is no alternative before them except devoting their lives for this cause. They will wage a war against their oppressors, tyrants or exploiters, not to become kings, or to gain any reward here or in the next birth or after death in paradise; but to cast off the yoke of slavery, to establish liberty and peace they will tread this perilous, but glorious path. Can the pride they take in their noble cause be called vanity? Who is there rash enough to call it so? To him I say either he is foolish or wicked. Leave such a fellow alone for he cannot realise the depth, the emotions, the sentiment and the noble feelings that surge in that heart. His heart is dead, a mere lump of flesh, devoid of feelings. His convictions are infirm, his emotions feeble. His selfish interests have made him incapable of seeing the truth. The epithet ‘vanity’ is always hurled at the strength we get from our convictions.





> *A few questions*
> 
> Being atheist, I ask a few questions from theists:
> 
> 1. If, as you believe there is an Almighty, Omnipresent, Omniscient God, who created the earth or universe, please let me know, first of all, as to why he created this world. This world which is full of woe and grief, and countless miseries, where not even one person lives in peace.
> 
> 2. Pray, don’t say it is His law. If He is bound by any law, He is not Omnipotent. Don’t say it is His pleasure. Nero burnt one Rome. He killed a very limited number of people. He caused only a few tragedies, all for his morbid enjoyment. But what is his place in history? By what names do we remember him? All the disparaging epithets are hurled at him. Pages are blackened with invective diatribes condemning Nero: the tyrant, the heartless, the wicked.
> 
> One Genghis Khan killed a few thousand people to seek pleasure in it and we hate the very name. Now, how will you justify your all powerful, eternal Nero, who every day, every moment continues his pastime of killing people? How can you support his doings which surpass those of Genghis Khan in cruelty and in misery inflicted upon people? I ask why the Almighty created this world which is nothing but a living hell, a place of constant and bitter unrest. Why did he create man when he had the power not to do so? Have you any answer to these questions? You will say that it is to reward the sufferer and punish the evildoer in the hereafter. Well, well, how far will you justify a man who first of all inflicts injuries on your body and then applies soft and soothing ointment on them? How far the supporters and organizers of Gladiator bouts were justified in throwing men before half starved lions, later to be cared for and looked after well if they escaped this horrible death. That is why I ask: Was the creation of man intended to derive this kind of pleasure?
> 
> Open your eyes and see millions of people dying of hunger in slums and huts dirtier than the grim dungeons of prisons; just see the labourers patiently or say apathetically while the rich vampires suck their blood; bring to mind the wastage of human energy that will make a man with a little common sense shiver in horror. Just observe rich nations throwing their surplus produce into the sea instead of distributing it among the needy and deprived. There are palaces of kings built upon the foundations laid with human bones. Let them see all this and say “All is well in God’s Kingdom.” Why so? This is my question. You are silent. All right. I proceed to my next point.





> You, the Hindus, would say: Whosoever undergoes sufferings in this life, must have been a sinner in his previous birth. It is tantamount to saying that those who are oppressors now were Godly people then, in their previous births. For this reason alone they hold power in their hands. Let me say it plainly that your ancestors were shrewd people. They were always in search of petty hoaxes to play upon people and snatch from them the power of Reason. Let us analyse how much this argument carries weight!





> Do you really know the most cursed sin in this world is to be poor? Yes, poverty is a sin; it is a punishment! Cursed be the theoretician, jurist or legislator who proposes such measures as push man into the quagmire of more heinous sins. Did it not occur to your All Knowing God or he could learn the truth only after millions had undergone untold sufferings and hardships? What, according to your theory, is the fate of a person who, by no sin of his own, has been born into a family of low caste people? He is poor so he cannot go to a school. It is his fate to be shunned and hated by those who are born into a high caste. His ignorance, his poverty, and the contempt he receives from others will harden his heart towards society. Supposing that he commits a sin, who shall bear the consequences? God, or he, or the learned people of that society?
> 
> What is your view about those punishments inflicted on the people who were deliberately kept ignorant by selfish and proud Brahmans? If by chance these poor creatures heard a few words of your sacred books, Vedas, these Brahmans poured melted lead into their ears. If they committed any sin, who was to be held responsible? Who was to bear the brunt? My dear friends, these theories have been coined by the privileged classes. They try to justify the power they have usurped and the riches they have robbed with the help of such theories. Perhaps it was the writer Upton Sinclair who wrote [Bhagat Singh is referring to Sinclair’s pamphlet _Profits of Religion_] somewhere “only make a man firm believer in the immortality of soul, then rob him of all that he possesses. He will willingly help you in the process.” The dirty alliance between religious preachers and possessors of power brought the boon of prisons, gallows, knouts and above all such theories for the mankind.
> 
> I ask why your omnipotent God does not hold a man back when he is about to commit a sin or offence. It is child’s play for God. Why did He not kill war lords? Why did He not obliterate the fury of war from their minds? In this way He could have saved humanity of many a great calamity and horror. Why does He not infuse humanistic sentiments into the minds of the Britishers so that they may willingly leave India? I ask why He does not fill the hearts of all capitalist classes with altruistic humanism that prompts them to give up personal possession of the means of production and this will free the whole labouring humanity from the shackles of money. You want to argue the practicability of Socialist theory, I leave it to your Almighty God to enforce it. Common people understand the merits of Socialist theory as far as general welfare is concerned but they oppose it under the pretext that it cannot be implemented. Let the Almighty step in and arrange things in a proper way. No more logic chopping!
> 
> I tell you that the British rule is not there because God willed it but for the reason that we lack the will and courage to oppose it.





> Instead of developing the ideas and experiments of ancient thinkers, thus providing ourselves with the ideological weapon for the future struggle, – lethargic, idle, fanatical as we are – we cling to orthodox religion and in this way reduce human awakening to a stagnant pool.
> 
> It is necessary for every person who stands for progress to criticise every tenet of old beliefs. Item by item he has to challenge the efficacy of old faith. He has to analyse and understand all the details. If after rigorous reasoning, one is led to believe in any theory of philosophy, his faith is appreciated. His reasoning may be mistaken and even fallacious. But there is chance that he will be corrected because Reason is the guiding principle of his life. But belief, I should say blind belief is disastrous. It deprives a man of his understanding power and makes him reactionary.


Read it in full including the part about the low castes vs the Brahmans above since you preach for the Gita.

Does the Gita have such humanist, pan-humanist and elaborated thought of all those works above or even the words of the humble me if you go through my posts ? 



sammuel said:


> but using Krishna avatar does not make one a Krishna follower. And you got to admit , no ones draws avatars and Gods better than the Indians.



I don't know what logic you use here.



sammuel said:


> Beads, flowers, freedom, happiness :



I am from India and certainly will tell you that there is not much freedom here. You are very naive. You must know what I am talking next. Only a few days ago one of your compatriots, a film director named Nadav Lapid, was the jury head in the film festival in Goa and he spoken against the inclusion of a recent Hindi film called The Kashmir Files in the arts section. The film is directed by a Hindutvadi by name of Vivek Agnihotri who is also anti-Communist obviously. The film is a totally one-sided, poisonous and incorrect Hindutvadi narrative about Muslim Kashmiri militants killing the Pandit ( Kashmiri Hindu ) people in Kashmir in the 1990s. Sure, these killings happened and most Kashmiri Muslims express sadness that they happened but this wasn't a Muslim jihad or a genocide like is being made out in the film. Even the Pandits living in various concrete refugee camps have spoken against the film and said that majority of their Kashmiri Muslim co-citizens were not hateful of them. Nadav stood on the stage in one of the film festival ceremonies and declared that he speaks on behalf of his jury which is surprised that a vulgar and propagandist film like The Kashmir Files has been included in the arts sections. He said this bravely despite the BJP government leaders and perhaps BJP party leaders sitting in front of him.

Fury erupted and Nadav was declared member of the "Tukde tukde gang" Israel version. "Tukde tukde gang" ( tukde tukde karna means breaking something ) is an hate phrase that is the invention of the Hindutvadis from 2016 to describe an agitation by the leftist students of JNU university in Delhi. It was a big thing then, the students and their party Communist supporters lynched on the news channels whether by calling them to the studio or without them. So Nadav by talking against the obscenity of the Hindutvadis became the Israeli "Tukde tukde gang" member including because he speaks against the mindless war of his government and military against the Palestinians. One of the actors in this film, Anupam Kher, used the other invention phrase of the Hindutvadis that Nadav had received a "tool kit" by someone the night before he made the speech and this Anupam "got to know from trusted sources because Nadav was missing from his hotel room that night". The phrase "tool kit" was first used by the Hindutvadi government of BJP during the Delhi ( and country-wide ) farmers protests of 2020-21 and the government declared that these "seditionist" protestors were exchanging "tool kit" documents with foreigners like Greta Thunberg in how to overthrow the government. Well, any exchange of documents if indeed existed would have been limited to the protests but why should Modi government exist even after it has only served to propagate the poisons of the Capitalists, genociders, dog lovers, honor-killers, farmer killers, student killers etc ?

Some Hindutvadis filed a police complaint that called for arrest of Nadav. LOL, these RSS monkeys will go to Israel to arrest Nadav ?

You speak of freedom in India, yes, there is freedom but for worthies like these who in the Hindutvadi Dharam Sansad in Haridwar city in December last year gave speeches calling for immediate genocide of two million Muslims and subsequent Dharam Sansads including in national capital Delhi spoke against Christians and Communists. Watch this :





Freedom.



Stranagor said:


> Ukraine latest: Germany marks milestone in reducing Russian gas with floating terminal
> 
> 
> New EU sanctions ban exports of drone engines to Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asia.nikkei.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia worked three decades to build energy market with Europe, and did away with it in less than a year.
> 
> The winners are those alternative energy providers.



I don't understand you. You have a USSR flag being raised on a building in Germany in World War 2, you have a Russia flag yet your last two posts have been in criticism of Russia.




Stranagor said:


> Actually, they are not busted, but Putin has begun to resort to pariah state tactics, which is well known. Hence, even those vessels manipulating their AIS or those carrying the documents of other scrapped ships are eventually tracked. It is line a game of cat and mouse, the mouse has to devise new strategies to survive. That's a downward spiral.



What the hell is "pariah state" ?

And Russia is the cat here, ideologically and otherwise.



1ndy said:


> Americans fight for their land and causes. British fight for theirs and so others... Same as russian heros...



Since when is DPRK, Libyan Jamahiriya, Viet Nam, Cuba, Angola etc American land ?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572521625907769344

Reactions: Like Like:
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## 1ndy

jamahir said:


> And "defense" should mean genociding, destroying, assassinating, giving cancers and regime-changing around the globe for the last 73 years of its existence ?
> 
> 
> 
> In India every 18-aged and above citizen has the right to equal vote, doesn't mean India is an actual democracy.
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, people welcome Russia but don't for NATO. In Germany and Japan many people protest against NATO / American military bases and want their expulsion. About your point just above that all members in the NATO pact are equal, doesn't matter because Germany's government is part of NATO and Japan's government is an unofficial member of NATO but their people protest against NATO presence in their countries and in context of the Ukraine war the Germans want their country to re-engage with Russia because of current and soon-coming problems in food, house heating and other things.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to. I have the Quran, the Modern Communist and progressive works including The Communist Manifesto whose one slogan is "Workers of the world, unite ! " and Muammar Gaddafi's Green Book and the words of the Indian revolutionary Bhagat Singh who was hanged by the British colonial government in 1931 when he was 24 and who for example wrote this sensitive, very thoughtful, elaborate, empathetic and full-of-intellect essay called "Why I am an atheist" whose some sections I post below :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read it in full including the part about the low castes vs the Brahmans above since you preach for the Gita.
> 
> Does the Gita have such humanist, pan-humanist and elaborated thought of all those works above or even the words of the humble me if you go through my posts ?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what logic you use here.
> 
> 
> 
> I am from India and certainly will tell you that there is not much freedom here. You are very naive. You must know what I am talking next. Only a few days ago one of your compatriots, a film director named Nadav Lapid, was the jury head in the film festival in Goa and he spoken against the inclusion of a recent Hindi film called The Kashmir Files in the arts section. The film is directed by a Hindutvadi by name of Vivek Agnihotri who is also anti-Communist obviously. The film is a totally one-sided, poisonous and incorrect Hindutvadi narrative about Muslim Kashmiri militants killing the Pandit ( Kashmiri Hindu ) people in Kashmir in the 1990s. Sure, these killings happened and most Kashmiri Muslims express sadness that they happened but this wasn't a Muslim jihad or a genocide like is being made out in the film. Even the Pandits living in various concrete refugee camps have spoken against the film and said that majority of their Kashmiri Muslim co-citizens were not hateful of them. Nadav stood on the stage in one of the film festival ceremonies and declared that he speaks on behalf of his jury which is surprised that a vulgar and propagandist film like The Kashmir Files has been included in the arts sections. He said this bravely despite the BJP government leaders and perhaps BJP party leaders sitting in front of him.
> 
> Fury erupted and Nadav was declared member of the "Tukde tukde gang" Israel version. "Tukde tukde gang" ( tukde tukde karna means breaking something ) is an hate phrase that is the invention of the Hindutvadis from 2016 to describe an agitation by the leftist students of JNU university in Delhi. It was a big thing then, the students and their party Communist supporters lynched on the news channels whether by calling them to the studio or without them. So Nadav by talking against the obscenity of the Hindutvadis became the Israeli "Tukde tukde gang" member including because he speaks against the mindless war of his government and military against the Palestinians. One of the actors in this film, Anupam Kher, used the other invention phrase of the Hindutvadis that Nadav had received a "tool kit" by someone the night before he made the speech and this Anupam "got to know from trusted sources because Nadav was missing from his hotel room that night". The phrase "tool kit" was first used by the Hindutvadi government of BJP during the Delhi ( and country-wide ) farmers protests of 2020-21 and the government declared that these "seditionist" protestors were exchanging "tool kit" documents with foreigners like Greta Thunberg in how to overthrow the government. Well, any exchange of documents if indeed existed would have been limited to the protests but why should Modi government exist even after it has only served to propagate the poisons of the Capitalists, genociders, dog lovers, honor-killers, farmer killers, student killers etc ?
> 
> Some Hindutvadis filed a police complaint that called for arrest of Nadav. LOL, these RSS monkeys will go to Israel to arrest Nadav ?
> 
> You speak of freedom in India, yes, there is freedom but for worthies like these who in the Hindutvadi Dharam Sansad in Haridwar city in December last year gave speeches calling for immediate genocide of two million Muslims and subsequent Dharam Sansads including in national capital Delhi spoke against Christians and Communists. Watch this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand you. You have a USSR flag being raised on a building in Germany in World War 2, you have a Russia flag yet your last two posts have been in criticism of Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is "pariah state" ?
> 
> And Russia is the cat here, ideologically and otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is DPRK, Libyan Jamahiriya, Viet Nam, Cuba, Angola etc American land ?


And since when Ukraine is Russian land?


----------



## Viet

Once the war is over. Question: how can Ukraine security be assured?
Germany has the choice, either accepting Ukraine into the NATO or giving 3,200 leopards tanks.

Says Anton Hofreiter, he is from the Green, one of Germany gov parties. And he says, Putin is a street hooligan who will only back down when his nose is broken.









Anton Hofreiter: Entweder Nato-Mitgliedschaft für Ukraine oder 3200 Leopard-Panzer


Der Grünen-Politiker hat den Berliner Verlag besucht. Er sprach über ein Ende des Ukraine-Kriegs, wieso Macron sich überschätzt und was zu tun ist, damit China uns nicht mehr erpressen kann.




www.berliner-zeitung.de

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## sammuel

jamahir said:


> And "defense" should mean genociding, destroying, assassinating, giving cancers and regime-changing around the globe for the last 73 years of its existence ?
> 
> 
> 
> In India every 18-aged and above citizen has the right to equal vote, doesn't mean India is an actual democracy.
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, people welcome Russia but don't for NATO. In Germany and Japan many people protest against NATO / American military bases and want their expulsion. About your point just above that all members in the NATO pact are equal, doesn't matter because Germany's government is part of NATO and Japan's government is an unofficial member of NATO but their people protest against NATO presence in their countries and in context of the Ukraine war the Germans want their country to re-engage with Russia because of current and soon-coming problems in food, house heating and other things.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to. I have the Quran, the Modern Communist and progressive works including The Communist Manifesto whose one slogan is "Workers of the world, unite ! " and Muammar Gaddafi's Green Book and the words of the Indian revolutionary Bhagat Singh who was hanged by the British colonial government in 1931 when he was 24 and who for example wrote this sensitive, very thoughtful, elaborate, empathetic and full-of-intellect essay called "Why I am an atheist" whose some sections I post below :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read it in full including the part about the low castes vs the Brahmans above since you preach for the Gita.
> 
> Does the Gita have such humanist, pan-humanist and elaborated thought of all those works above or even the words of the humble me if you go through my posts ?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what logic you use here.
> 
> 
> 
> I am from India and certainly will tell you that there is not much freedom here. You are very naive. You must know what I am talking next. Only a few days ago one of your compatriots, a film director named Nadav Lapid, was the jury head in the film festival in Goa and he spoken against the inclusion of a recent Hindi film called The Kashmir Files in the arts section. The film is directed by a Hindutvadi by name of Vivek Agnihotri who is also anti-Communist obviously. The film is a totally one-sided, poisonous and incorrect Hindutvadi narrative about Muslim Kashmiri militants killing the Pandit ( Kashmiri Hindu ) people in Kashmir in the 1990s. Sure, these killings happened and most Kashmiri Muslims express sadness that they happened but this wasn't a Muslim jihad or a genocide like is being made out in the film. Even the Pandits living in various concrete refugee camps have spoken against the film and said that majority of their Kashmiri Muslim co-citizens were not hateful of them. Nadav stood on the stage in one of the film festival ceremonies and declared that he speaks on behalf of his jury which is surprised that a vulgar and propagandist film like The Kashmir Files has been included in the arts sections. He said this bravely despite the BJP government leaders and perhaps BJP party leaders sitting in front of him.
> 
> Fury erupted and Nadav was declared member of the "Tukde tukde gang" Israel version. "Tukde tukde gang" ( tukde tukde karna means breaking something ) is an hate phrase that is the invention of the Hindutvadis from 2016 to describe an agitation by the leftist students of JNU university in Delhi. It was a big thing then, the students and their party Communist supporters lynched on the news channels whether by calling them to the studio or without them. So Nadav by talking against the obscenity of the Hindutvadis became the Israeli "Tukde tukde gang" member including because he speaks against the mindless war of his government and military against the Palestinians. One of the actors in this film, Anupam Kher, used the other invention phrase of the Hindutvadis that Nadav had received a "tool kit" by someone the night before he made the speech and this Anupam "got to know from trusted sources because Nadav was missing from his hotel room that night". The phrase "tool kit" was first used by the Hindutvadi government of BJP during the Delhi ( and country-wide ) farmers protests of 2020-21 and the government declared that these "seditionist" protestors were exchanging "tool kit" documents with foreigners like Greta Thunberg in how to overthrow the government. Well, any exchange of documents if indeed existed would have been limited to the protests but why should Modi government exist even after it has only served to propagate the poisons of the Capitalists, genociders, dog lovers, honor-killers, farmer killers, student killers etc ?
> 
> Some Hindutvadis filed a police complaint that called for arrest of Nadav. LOL, these RSS monkeys will go to Israel to arrest Nadav ?
> 
> You speak of freedom in India, yes, there is freedom but for worthies like these who in the Hindutvadi Dharam Sansad in Haridwar city in December last year gave speeches calling for immediate genocide of two million Muslims and subsequent Dharam Sansads including in national capital Delhi spoke against Christians and Communists. Watch this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand you. You have a USSR flag being raised on a building in Germany in World War 2, you have a Russia flag yet your last two posts have been in criticism of Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is "pariah state" ?
> 
> And Russia is the cat here, ideologically and otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is DPRK, Libyan Jamahiriya, Viet Nam, Cuba, Angola etc American land ?





I appreciate you putting in an effort to write a long reply.


Have not been to India and I am not an expert about it. But you really are putting to much into what is just a picture of an avatar. Now suddenly I am responsible for everything that goes down in India ?


Also , to be particular , this picture is part of a larger picture from the epic " Mahābhārata " Which describes a pointless war that could easily have been avoided.

The pointless suffering of the war brings into question both moral and spiritual questions. Had you read it i am sure you would understand why i found it fitting to this forum , just look at this thread . . .

This is the full picture :










The truth is stays the same , no matter which part of the world you seek for it. I see no problem in learning other nations religions,

In what ever part of the world you taste the sea , it will always taste salty . Same with the truth.

For there can only be one truth. I find there is more in common to all religions than what separates them.

It would be wise to read the Gita , same as it would be wise to listen to what a whirling dervish has to say . . .


----------



## Viet

Ukraine army planned an assassination attempt on Russia army chief Gerassimov (on the left) when he visited the charkiw front in April. That reported the New York Times. Ukraine went ahead with kill plan despite Washington objection.
Gerassimov escaped the killing commando.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604385425837244424

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Putin copies the US. He will send singers and circus artists to the front. Obviously Russia invasion army lacks motivation, they urgently need entertainment.









Ukraine War: Russia Enlists Singers And Circus Performers To Tackle Troops' 'Fragile Morale'


Ordinary Russians have also been urged to donate musical instruments to the front line.



www.huffingtonpost.co.uk





Why not.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Ukraine: Russia to deploy musicians to front to boost morale


The new "front-line creative brigade" will consist of volunteer musicians and mobilised recruits.



www.bbc.co.uk





>> Yep - Russia is running our of tanks - missiles - so they are sending in the clowns to turn their fortunes around..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604491660590997505

Russian military displaying fragments of the HIMMARS that they've been shooting down. hahaha So much for the HIMMARS owning the day! LMAO 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604443797743886339
The Western propagandists last hope is the Patriot air defense missile. We'll see how long that one lasts too.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604514202579718144


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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> Bhagavad Gita does make an interesting read , but using Krishna avatar does not make one a Krishna follower. And you got to admit , no ones draws avatars and Gods better than the Indians.
> 
> Beads, flowers, freedom, happiness :



Is mesmerising. I think your promised land is now India. Better climate, better food, better music. Pack your bags, off you go.

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## TopGun786

thetutle said:


> Is mesmerising. I think your promised land is now India. Better climate, better food, better music. Pack your bags, off you go.


Their promised place is something very hot, very very hot.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604514202579718144




You can tell that to kids. No grown-up person would fall for such gimmick. 

Fyi, the Russians are sending drones and other missiles as decoys in order to reveal the location of Ukrainian air defense systems and then taking down as they (Ukrainian air defense) fire on the decoys. And we can see the result of those bombings on Ukrainian energy facilities that are almost taken out.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The desperation in the West. They're now courting African leaders and Venezuela in order to keep the Russian and Chinese influence away. They did regard these leaders as "dictators" just a few years ago, but today it is almost begging them. This is how desperate the West is when it comes to Russia and China.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604332335154987009

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## thetutle

jamahir said:


> So you know the facts yet I don't understand your objection to Russia. And Russia is not imperialist. The North Atlantic Terrorist Organization is since establishment in 1949. Only the next year after establishment it launched an imperialist invasion of DPRK ( North Korea ) and has been doing around the globe ever since.



I dont object to russia, I love russia. I love russian music, I even have a russian GF. I just want them to stay in their borders and not attack europe. 

I dont care if they are imperialist or not. I just care that there are not attacking people in Europe. I wish they would just stop. And if they wont stop voluntarily, I guess they will be stopped by the west. And destroyed.


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604491660590997505
> 
> Russian military displaying fragments of the HIMMARS that they've been shooting down. hahaha So much for the HIMMARS owning the day! LMAO 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604443797743886339
> The Western propagandists last hope is the Patriot air defense missile. We'll see how long that one lasts too.


Last hope?

How is Russia’s special 3 day operation against their brother nation (who would welcome them with hugs) going??

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## ZeGerman

Russian oil revenues fall in November despite production boost | Oil | The Guardian


Decline seen as evidence that western efforts to choke off the Kremlin’s earnings are working




amp.theguardian.com





And gas is down as well. 

Russia cutting off its biggest customers will start to hurt their war budget eventually.
Cant wait for worldwide recession where its lifeline will really dry up

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## jamahir

thetutle said:


> I dont object to russia, I love russia. I love russian music, I even have a russian GF. I just want them to stay in their borders and not attack europe.
> 
> I dont care if they are imperialist or not. I just care that there are not attacking people in Europe. I wish they would just stop. And if they wont stop voluntarily, I guess they will be stopped by the west. And destroyed.



OK, I am still confused, maybe it's the late hour so will try again tomorrow.


----------



## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You can tell that to kids. No grown-up person would fall for such gimmick.
> 
> Fyi, the Russians are sending drones and other missiles as decoys in order to reveal the location of Ukrainian air defense systems and then taking down as they (Ukrainian air defense) fire on the decoys. And we can see the result of those bombings on Ukrainian energy facilities that are almost taken out.


This is literally a tactic of war since the 2nd world War, where decoy vehicles were used by armies to waste the opposition's ammunition, and reveal their presence, as well as create diversions.

You don't know how war work, the past 1091 pages have proven that much.

It's also sad that you're defending terroristic tactics meant to make sure an entire population freezes to death.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> i'm
> 
> what is sarcastic about the reality that NATO is low on ammunition? you know i've done stand up comedy before? jokes reveal uncomfortable truths, so you are admitting the truth you are in denial of still -Ukraine will die for this matter- if NATO gets involved, man, NATO soldiers will die the same way they kiled IRaqi, Afghan, Syrian, Yemeni soldiers too! karma again?
> 
> you say this rubbish while Ukranians have to emigrate from their country in masses because they have no power or services? watch how you talk bro and show respect for what Ukranian civilians are going through.
> 
> so what? Saudis have lost, cuz they cant win- tehy are in a Ukranian! they have the best equipment- aparently, and the most money- apparently- but they cant win, which means , THEY LOST.
> 
> THe way houthis worked Saudis, its not even funny, if you try to argue for saudis you only prove you dont understand modern warfare and its realities.


You have finally spoken the truth: this is Russia’s Yemen. Saudis are the Russians here. Ukrainian are using Houthi tactics with NATO backing and it bothers you so are relegated to calling people ‘buddies’. Nobody here is or wants to be your buddy. I am interested in reading your analysis in case I learn something. I am not interested a Putin bot thinking we are a captive RT audience. 

Much like the Saudis’ were not able to keep the initiative, so has Russian with its lofty goal of taking over the country have gone and now is engaged in a war of attrition. So let’s let the attrition begin and see which side loses first. Democratic NATO or Putin’s captive audience



925boy said:


> no, i believe the facts. thanks for projecting your way of thinking onto me.
> 
> what have ATACAMS achieved in the war today? fancy toys usually means you lose the war- saudis lost to houthis, ISrael lost to Hamas last year, and Hezbolah in 2006, another shiny toys military that got stretched by constant bombardment from hamas that it couldnt suppress - shame on your useless big for nothing military that has everything it needs except the guts to fight well and hard.


Don’t take the rest of this as an approval or what Israel does. You are clearly not in a war zone but have lots of time to dig into the web.

So go dig into how good life in Hamas is. Every time they launch something that may injur an Israeli, a whole city block is wiped out and by the time engagement is over, a 1000 Palestenians die. ANd Israelis after a few air raid sirens are back to working in their regular white collar jobs that then produces the money to kick more Palestenians out.

If last year is described as a ’win‘ for Hamas, then Putin is headed for victory For sure . NOw that we all understand what your frame of reference for victory is


----------



## aviator_fan

thetutle said:


> Muslims in the west are second class citizens. Very few civil and religious rights. They probably have better rights in russia. So I'm just saying it like I perceive it.
> 
> Now, I live in the west, and the corruption and injustice will probably drive me away from it. But just because the west is broken does not mean I want europe ruled by russia.
> 
> As a European, I can confirm that whatever system europe has from time to time, from medieval kings to nazism, it is always more preferable to being ruled by russia. Always.


No society is above reproach. But your comments on muslims being better off in russia compared to the west?

you know CHechens are Muslims and how they were suppressed? In the 60s muslims weren’t allowed to keep a copy of the Koran . My father visited for work and he was asked for a copy (Secretly).

Mayor of London is a muslim

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## The SC

Marynka has fallen to the Russians..this creates a dangerous situation for the AFU in that whole region..

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## gambit

Vergennes said:


> Javelin isn't a game changer, stinger isn't a game changer, himars isn't a game changer, HARM aren't a game changer, IRIS T aren't a game changer, Patriots aren't a game changer... and so on.


Nothing is a 'game changer'. Nothing at all...









Russian state TV host admits people were wrong to joke about U.S. weapons


Russian TV anchor Artyom Sheynin expressed concern at how U.S.-supplied HIMARS systems are hitting Russian targets.




www.newsweek.com





Kremlin propagandist has admitted that Russia had underestimated the impact that U.S.-supplied weapons would have on Russian forces fighting in Ukraine.​​"We were joking about American weapons," he continued. "After getting to know HIMARS and 155mm projectiles up close and personal, it's not very funny any more when we see how they dismantle our warehouses and command centers with precision."​

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604484863528435712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604601735149891584

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604484863528435712
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604601735149891584



Those are Iveco LMVs used by the Russian army.... nice try though.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604590793733406721

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## Reashot Xigwin

jamahir said:


> Real Exhibit A : Your NATO-supporter Swedish friend below, talking joyfully in an evil religious trance about burning Russians and Syrians and Belarusians and so on in hell fire :
> 
> 
> 
> Exhibit B : The virulently anti-Communist Madeleine NotBright declaring openly in 1996 that 500,000 Iraqi children murdered by her government's military and those of its allies was all okay, it was worth it :
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506706179178725379
> Exhibit C : 15 years on after Exhibit B, no change in mentality, no cure for that insane bloodlust, Killary Kill-in-tons saying with a dog laugh "We came, we saw, he died" :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign propaganda like this ?
> 
> 
> And this ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you know the facts yet I don't understand your objection to Russia. And Russia is not imperialist. The North Atlantic Terrorist Organization is since establishment in 1949. Only the next year after establishment it launched an imperialist invasion of DPRK ( North Korea ) and has been doing around the globe ever since.
> 
> 
> 
> No, @sammuel is Israeli, possibly Jew, seems a good person but unfortunately brainwashed himself to become a member of that idiotic Hare Krishna movement whose front, the ISKCON society, preaches the Hindu holy book Bhagwad Gita which was brought to trial in Russia 11 years in 2011 and called for a ban because the academics there said it preaches hatred and violence against humanity, does misogyny, denigrates humanity on various grounds, is against other groups in society and is essentially an extremist book :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bhagavad Gita As It Is trial in Russia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it wasn't banned in Russia because of pressure from Indian government.
> 
> 
> 
> "Sound-thermal reconnaissance system that detects and transmits artillery positions"... Russia is very good at new types of weapons, as was USSR. Sad that Russian minds are being forced by NATO to invest their ideas in weaponry. Russia could do so much in space exploration and enhancing human longevity.
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to the NATO propagandists here Russia has been very kind to Ukrainian cities. If Russia wanted Kiev and other cities would have seen massive bombardment right from February 24th. Russia did the grave mistake of not bombarding Ukrainian power stations because it would have cut off military production and UkroNazi bureaucracy. And Zelensky cannot claim that Russia doing this would harm ordinary Ukrainian citizens because not only had Zelensky for eight long years been murdering Ukrainians ( as he contradictorily called them ) in the Eastern region until February 24 but since the Russian operation began he also unleashed a reign of terror and war crime not only against opposition groups but against ordinary citizens by siting rocket fire trucks in school grounds and residential areas, hosting foreign psychos in residential buildings, siting military command centers in hospitals and residential buildings, shooting up citizens just passing by in vehicles etc other than kidnapping males to force them into his military to fill his voracious UkroNazi lust for Russian and Syrian blood. And then his people went about torturing anyone they found not "sufficient patriotic" ( patriotism according to their Nazi insanity ) and tied them up to poles beside roads and sprayed harmful paint on them, removed their clothes and flogged them and kicked them.
> 
> 
> 
> Every true Muslim must support Russia.


Exhibit B & I'm guessing he didn't get that smartphone the halal way in Ukraine:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604540346700300288
Exhibit C because there's nothing more humanitarian than threatening to start a nuclear Armageddon. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578788405781364736
Exhibit D 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604098837483622400

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## sammuel

~

How long can Russia keep firing it's artillery ?

This question have been raised cause of the huge amount of shells Russia is using. They started the war with burning through a staggering 5_0,000_ rounds a day , now they are down to 20,000 a day.

That raises two issues :

How much is left in Russia stockpiles when they are using over half a million 152mm shells a month ?

And how long can their Guns hold out ? An artillery piece can fire something like 2500 rounds , before the barrel needs to be replaced.

I read an article that at this rate by the end of the year , Russians would run into problems in this area as well.

In recent week it seems that this issue is discussed again , and there are reports that Russia us now using 40-50 years old shells.










Burning through ammo, Russia using 40-year-old rounds, U.S. official says


Russia is turning to decades-old ammunition with high failure rates as it burns through its stockpiles to carry out its nearly 10-month-old invasion of Ukraine, a senior U.S. military official said on Monday.




www.reuters.com














Russia Could Run Out Of Reliable Rockets, Artillery Shells Early Next Year, Pentagon Says


Dwindling stockpiles is likely forcing Russian troops to use older, “degraded” ammo, a senior U.S. military officer said.




www.defenseone.com














Russia faces ‘critical shortage’ of artillery shells, says UK defence chief


Tony Radakin said Moscow’s ability to conduct ground operations in Ukraine is ‘rapidly diminishing’ as a result




www.theguardian.com














Who will win in Ukraine? It may be whichever side has the most ammo


Russia is using 50-year-old ammunition and dismantling breast pumps and kitchen appliances to get microchips it needs for tanks and precision-guided weapons, officials say.




www.nbcnews.com






~

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604667715263893504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604667718543839232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604667721626656771

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604707188659871744

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## Reashot Xigwin

I love laughing at Russian incompetence. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603762133111652353
Funny video 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602938825722003458
ISW report

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604622544182644740

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## OldTwilight

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> How long can Russia keep firing it's artillery ?
> 
> This question have been raised cause of the huge amount of shells Russia is using. They started the war with burning through a staggering 5_0,000_ rounds a day , now they are down to 20,000 a day.
> 
> That raises two issues :
> 
> How much is left in Russia stockpiles when they are using over half a million 152mm shells a month ?
> 
> And how long can their Guns hold out ? An artillery piece can fire something like 2500 rounds , before the barrel needs to be replaced.
> 
> I read an article that at this rate by the end of the year , Russians would run into problems in this area as well , by the end of this year.
> 
> In recent week it seems that this issue is discussed again , and there are reports that Russia us now using 40-50 years old shells.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burning through ammo, Russia using 40-year-old rounds, U.S. official says
> 
> 
> Russia is turning to decades-old ammunition with high failure rates as it burns through its stockpiles to carry out its nearly 10-month-old invasion of Ukraine, a senior U.S. military official said on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Could Run Out Of Reliable Rockets, Artillery Shells Early Next Year, Pentagon Says
> 
> 
> Dwindling stockpiles is likely forcing Russian troops to use older, “degraded” ammo, a senior U.S. military officer said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenseone.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia faces ‘critical shortage’ of artillery shells, says UK defence chief
> 
> 
> Tony Radakin said Moscow’s ability to conduct ground operations in Ukraine is ‘rapidly diminishing’ as a result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who will win in Ukraine? It may be whichever side has the most ammo
> 
> 
> Russia is using 50-year-old ammunition and dismantling breast pumps and kitchen appliances to get microchips it needs for tanks and precision-guided weapons, officials say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Iraq could keep firing artirelly against Iran for 8 years in 1980-1988 war ....
They were just mere importer ....

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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> How long can Russia keep firing it's artillery ?
> 
> This question have been raised cause of the huge amount of shells Russia is using. They started the war with burning through a staggering 5_0,000_ rounds a day , now they are down to 20,000 a day.
> 
> That raises two issues :
> 
> How much is left in Russia stockpiles when they are using over half a million 152mm shells a month ?
> 
> And how long can their Guns hold out ? An artillery piece can fire something like 2500 rounds , before the barrel needs to be replaced.
> 
> I read an article that at this rate by the end of the year , Russians would run into problems in this area as well , by the end of this year.
> 
> In recent week it seems that this issue is discussed again , and there are reports that Russia us now using 40-50 years old shells.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burning through ammo, Russia using 40-year-old rounds, U.S. official says
> 
> 
> Russia is turning to decades-old ammunition with high failure rates as it burns through its stockpiles to carry out its nearly 10-month-old invasion of Ukraine, a senior U.S. military official said on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Could Run Out Of Reliable Rockets, Artillery Shells Early Next Year, Pentagon Says
> 
> 
> Dwindling stockpiles is likely forcing Russian troops to use older, “degraded” ammo, a senior U.S. military officer said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenseone.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia faces ‘critical shortage’ of artillery shells, says UK defence chief
> 
> 
> Tony Radakin said Moscow’s ability to conduct ground operations in Ukraine is ‘rapidly diminishing’ as a result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who will win in Ukraine? It may be whichever side has the most ammo
> 
> 
> Russia is using 50-year-old ammunition and dismantling breast pumps and kitchen appliances to get microchips it needs for tanks and precision-guided weapons, officials say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


We have been hearing this since the start of the war, it seems to be just wishful thinking or cheap propaganda. The Russians have a huge manufacturing base and have been supplying weapons to the world for a long long time. They also have friends who will return favours like India, Iran, China who will fill any weapons and supplies gaps.

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## sammuel

khansaheeb said:


> We have been hearing this since the start of the war, it seems to be just wishful thinking or cheap propaganda. The Russians have a huge manufacturing base and have been supplying weapons to the world for a long long time. They also have friends who will return favours like India, Iran, China who will fill any weapons and supplies gaps.




We have been hearing it , yet the estimations where about the end of this year and the date is arriving. I guess we will see in a few months who was right , which is likely , cause there is so far , no end in sight for this war.

As for your remark on resupply from India and China , as far as I know both don't sell any weapons to Russia. Certainly not artillery and shells.

As for Iran , the only 152mm artillery pieces in their stockpile are 30 old towed howitzers ,*D-20 *from the 50th , i doubt they would make an impact.

~

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## Dalit

Nice. I am enjoying my breakfast here and reading some banter comments in this topic. Delicious coffee.

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## Oldman1



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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine: Russia to deploy musicians to front to boost morale
> 
> 
> The new "front-line creative brigade" will consist of volunteer musicians and mobilised recruits.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Yep - Russia is running our of tanks - missiles - so they are sending in the clowns to turn their fortunes around..


Putin visits the Crimea bridge. Shoigu visits the front. Who knows, they will dress like a circus clown to entertain the mass. The army needs motivation. They can continue going on killing, raping.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604794565126279168

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604843008976879619

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## kingQamaR

khansaheeb said:


> We have been hearing this since the start of the war, it seems to be just wishful thinking or cheap propaganda. The Russians have a huge manufacturing base and have been supplying weapons to the world for a long long time. They also have friends who will return favours like India, Iran, China who will fill any weapons and supplies gaps.



Russia has vast stocks of artillery rounds. Enough to fight a world war. Most are Cold War era munitions, long in storage bunkers, but effective enough for the job.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604857614407708673
T72B3 with cope cage

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## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> We have been hearing this since the start of the war, it seems to be just wishful thinking or cheap propaganda. The Russians have a huge manufacturing base and have been supplying weapons to the world for a long long time. They also have friends who will return favours like India, Iran, China who will fill any weapons and supplies gaps.


Which is of course totally useless for any predictions.
What is interesting is

How large was the stock when the war started?
How much have been used?
How much can be produced each month?
How much is blown up before it is available at an battery?
Unless you have this information, any comment is pure speculation.
The behaviour of Russia of course gives clues. If it is significantly reducing the number of shells/mortar rounds etc, then it is likely to do so because it spends more than it manufactures.

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## kingQamaR

Does Russia have uranium shells in Ukraine 

No news or reports of them being used so far by anyone Iraq was saturated with depleted Uranium rounds by west in gulf wars

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## Ali_Baba

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Exhibit B & I'm guessing he didn't get that smartphone the halal way in Ukraine:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604540346700300288



OMG ..

Well think of it this way - the value of russian human life has gone up - previously it was just worth a bag of fish and a bag of potatoes ...

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## Foinikas

Moscow warns Athens about sending S-300 missile system to Ukraine







www.euractiv.com





@dBSPL @merzifonlu @aziqbal @PakAlp Guys,check this out,I'm laughing...

_*RIA Novosti*_* explained that the transfer of Russian-made weapons to Ukraine, under pressure from the United States, would mean that the Greek air defence would be deprived of capabilities the Turkish side does not know and cannot face.*

I mean,the Turks have* S-400s *and the Russians say we'll be deprived of capabilities Turks don't know and can't face

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## Hack-Hook

Foinikas said:


> Moscow warns Athens about sending S-300 missile system to Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euractiv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @dBSPL @merzifonlu @aziqbal @PakAlp Guys,check this out,I'm laughing...
> 
> _*RIA Novosti*_* explained that the transfer of Russian-made weapons to Ukraine, under pressure from the United States, would mean that the Greek air defence would be deprived of capabilities the Turkish side does not know and cannot face.*
> 
> I mean,the Turks have* S-400s *and the Russians say we'll be deprived of capabilities Turks don't know and can't face


well technically they don't have s-300. but that aside , if Greece is hoping to get patriot instead of any s-300 they gave to Ukraine i suggest them think twice , there is a long list in front of them

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## Foinikas

Hack-Hook said:


> well technically they don't have s-300. but that aside , if Greece is hoping to get patriot instead of any s-300 they gave to Ukraine i suggest them think twice , there is a long list in front of them


There's not deal yet. They're just talking. The problem is that we have to replace the Tor-M1,OSA AKM and S-300PMU1,because the missiles will eventually expire and we can't get any spare parts for the systems either. 

We have to replace the HAWK too and I don't think we can upgrade the Tor-M1 and S-300 now...


----------



## Viet

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Which is of course totally useless for any predictions.
> What is interesting is
> 
> How large was the stock when the war started?
> How much have been used?
> How much can be produced each month?
> How much is blown up before it is available at an battery?
> Unless you have this information, any comment is pure speculation.
> The behaviour of Russia of course gives clues. If it is significantly reducing the number of shells/mortar rounds etc, then it is likely to do so because it spends more than it manufactures.


the Russian war machine can produce 70 rockets or cruise missiles per month. They can’t make more because of western sanctions. If you participate the russians need on average 100 missiles for a single attack then they need more than one month production before starting a new wave of attack.

Just a matter of weeks or months before Putin uses off all what he hides in the storages. Simple math.


----------



## Titanium100

Foinikas said:


> There's not deal yet. They're just talking. The problem is that we have to replace the Tor-M1,OSA AKM and S-300PMU1,because the missiles will eventually expire and we can't get any spare parts for the systems either.
> 
> We have to replace the HAWK too and I don't think we can upgrade the Tor-M1 and S-300 now...



What is the wait for? These are shiiity systems Greece has currently.. If I was in their defense I would give it away immediately to Ukraine and upgrade


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604580230848471041

So much for the Western-provided "air defense" weapons. The Shaheed-136s and Arash drones are defeating whatever air defense that the West is giving to their cannon fodder in Ukraine. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604787920963096576

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The beauty of those atgms taking out the tanks of the Ukrainians. Kaboom! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604898162027532288

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Another kapoom in the DPR 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604886809837965312
It is Monday and it is already beginning to a good start!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

That Guy said:


> This is literally a tactic of war since the 2nd world War, where decoy vehicles were used by armies to waste the opposition's ammunition, and reveal their presence, as well as create diversions.
> 
> *You don't know how war work, the past 1091 pages have proven that much.*
> 
> It's also sad that you're defending terroristic tactics meant to make sure an entire population freezes to death.




Says by the guy in Canada who has never seen a combat and training. The only fight the Canadians were involved was in Afghanistan, and boy those Afghan Mujahideen owned the day to the point where the Canadians ended their involvement in combat in 2011 and fully withdrew in 2014. 

"*Canada concluded combat operations in 2011 and left Afghanistan in 2014. In August 2021, the Taliban retook control of most of the country as American forces withdrew and government forces collapsed.* Afghanistan’s future remains uncertain."

Now more Canadian soldiers are struggling with psychological and physical wounds. 

"More than 40,000 members of the Canadian Armed Forces served and 158 Canadian soldiers died during the Afghanistan mission. *Thousands of other veterans of the war were wounded physically and psychologically, leading to additional deaths by suicide*."

Source: https://www.warmuseum.ca/learn/canada-and-the-afghanistan-war/

Now, how can you talk about war when you niggas are that soft? Come'n, a small unit of the Afghan mujahideen has humiliated the Canadians to the point where their participation of the whole operation was abandoned. Give me a break, smartie!

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## Hack-Hook

Foinikas said:


> i seriously doubt you can , but if I was you I would stick to the system unltill get the replacement.There's not deal yet. They're just talking. The problem is that we have to replace the Tor-M1,OSA AKM and S-300PMU1,because the missiles will eventually expire and we can't get any spare parts for the systems either.
> 
> We have to replace the HAWK too and I don't think we can upgrade the Tor-M1 and S-300 now...


right now , I doubt the upgrade be possible for you . but if you want to buy new system I seriously suggest keep the system until the replacement arrive then donate the old systems if you want . or there is a better way , go our route and build your own system , i don't see why Germany or France can have their own system but Greece cant . its not like your industry is ages behind them



Viet said:


> the Russian war machine can produce 70 rockets or cruise missiles per month. They can’t make more because of western sanctions. If you participate the russians need on average 100 missiles for a single attack then they need more than one month production before starting a new wave of attack.
> 
> Just a matter of weeks or months before Putin uses off all what he hides in the storages. Simple math


I really like to know how that 70 concluded



Titanium100 said:


> What is the wait for? These are shiiity systems Greece has currently.. If I was in their defense I would give it away immediately to Ukraine and upgrade


s300-pmu1 and tor-m1 may not be the latest model but are not shitty also hawk if it is from latest variant is something I rather not face if I'm a pilot .
also will you replace them tomorrow , or replacement come 6 year later ?


----------



## Foinikas

Titanium100 said:


> What is the wait for? These are shiiity systems Greece has currently.. If I was in their defense I would give it away immediately to Ukraine and upgrade


Opposition parties made a fuss for even the BMP-1 deal for Marder 1A3. They had some ex-military of theirs also nagging about the "islands being disarmed" because we would be giving away the BMP-1s with the 73mm gun and sending M113s and M1117 Guardians there with "just a machine gun"...they started accusing the government of giving away valuable weapons and sending them to Ukraine


----------



## Foinikas

Hack-Hook said:


> right now , I doubt the upgrade be possible for you . but if you want to buy new system I seriously suggest keep the system until the replacement arrive then donate the old systems if you want . or there is a better way , go our route and build your own system , i don't see why Germany or France can have their own system but Greece cant . its not like your industry is ages behind them


We need new AA systems. We make parts of the IRIS-T missiles,so we should get the IRIS-T SLM system. Apart from a few more Patriot batteries,we could use the Iron Dome David's Sling for long range. The Israelis were presenting the Barak 8 to our Armed Forces the other day.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Foinikas said:


> There's not deal yet. They're just talking. The problem is that we have to replace the Tor-M1,OSA AKM and S-300PMU1,because the missiles will eventually expire and we can't get any spare parts for the systems either.
> 
> We have to replace the HAWK too and I don't think we can upgrade the Tor-M1 and S-300 now...



Greece should look to barter the S300 now while it has some value and get western replacements in its place - and send the S300 to Ukraine.

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## Foinikas

Ali_Baba said:


> Greece should look to barter the S300 now while it has some value and get western replacements in its place - and send the S300 to Ukraine.


Exactly. But the leftist parties and opposition are nagging about it. Most defence sites and experts say that we should have done that months ago because the Ukrainians already got some of the best systems by now.


----------



## merzifonlu

Foinikas said:


> Exactly. But the leftist parties and opposition are nagging about it. Most defence sites and experts say that we should have done that months ago because the Ukrainians already got some of the best systems by now.


Maybe we sent Hisar-O and Korkut systems to Ukraine. 

The Greeks should be glad to have neighbors as considerate as we are. We take burdens from them. Thus, their precious S-300s are in place!

So what are they doing? Always complain, always complain. Always and always...


----------



## Foinikas

merzifonlu said:


> Maybe we sent Hisar-O and Korkut systems to Ukraine.
> 
> The Greeks should be glad to have neighbors as considerate as we are. We take burdens from them. Thus, their precious S-300s are in place!
> 
> So what are they doing? Always complain, always complain. Always and always...


Russians a few years ago: "Greece doesn't have to worry,the S-400 are a defensive weapon."

Russians now: "Don't give S-300 to Ukraine or else..."

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604944114138619922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604943733807386624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604935554272993284

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Says by the guy in Canada who has never seen a combat and training. The only fight the Canadians were involved was in Afghanistan, and boy those Afghan Mujahideen owned the day to the point where the Canadians ended their involvement in combat in 2011 and fully withdrew in 2014.
> 
> "*Canada concluded combat operations in 2011 and left Afghanistan in 2014. In August 2021, the Taliban retook control of most of the country as American forces withdrew and government forces collapsed.* Afghanistan’s future remains uncertain."
> 
> Now more Canadian soldiers are struggling with psychological and physical wounds.
> 
> "More than 40,000 members of the Canadian Armed Forces served and 158 Canadian soldiers died during the Afghanistan mission. *Thousands of other veterans of the war were wounded physically and psychologically, leading to additional deaths by suicide*."
> 
> Source: https://www.warmuseum.ca/learn/canada-and-the-afghanistan-war/
> 
> Now, how can you talk about war when you niggas are that soft? Come'n, a small unit of the Afghan mujahideen has humiliated the Canadians to the point where their participation of the whole operation was abandoned. Give me a break, smartie!


🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

How pathetic.

Instead of proving me wrong, all you did was prove how much of a fool you actually are.

Stop while you're ahead, 🤣. Your clown behavior is hilarious, but you're just gonna face backlash with this sort of shit behavior.

You're a dumbass.

By the way, you're from Somalia, so this criticism can be applied 1000 fold to you. Good job, you've literally humiliated yourself. Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

There's a reason why no one with a brain would make the same argument you've made.



Foinikas said:


> Russians a few years ago: "Greece doesn't have to worry,the S-400 are a defensive weapon."
> 
> Russians now: "Don't give S-300 to Ukraine or else..."


To be fair, they are a defensive system. It's just that they don't want Ukraine defending itself from Russian aggression.

The s-300 is a potent defense system, as is the s-400, and they don't want their own potent weapons turned against them. I doubt Russia ever developed a counter to their own systems, considering they never thought they'd end up facing their own weapons in enemy hands.

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## F-22Raptor

That Guy said:


> 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
> 
> How pathetic.
> 
> Instead of proving me wrong, all you did was prove how much of a fool you actually are.
> 
> Stop while you're ahead, 🤣. Your clown behavior is hilarious, but you're just gonna face backlash with this sort of shit behavior.
> 
> You're a dumbass.
> 
> By the way, you're from Somalia, so this criticism can be applied 1000 fold to you. Good job, you've literally humiliated yourself. Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.
> 
> There's a reason why no one with a brain would make the same argument you've made.
> 
> 
> To be fair, they are a defensive system. It's just that they don't want Ukraine defending itself from Russian aggression.
> 
> The s-300 is a potent defense system, as is the s-400, and they don't want their own potent weapons turned against them. I doubt Russia ever developed a counter to their own systems, considering they never thought they'd end up facing their own weapons in enemy hands.



Hassan is a Holocaust denier and has been wrong over and over throughout this war. Not sure why anyone entertains his nonsense anymore.

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## The SC

A lot of interesting updates..And AFU might leave Bakhmut by the end of this year,,

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Hassan is a Holocaust denier and has been wrong over and over throughout this war. Not sure why anyone entertains his nonsense anymore.



Stop making lies about me. I never denied the Holocaust nor do I confirm its validity. I just know one on-going genocide since 1948: The genocide of the Palestinian people, committed by the illegal European settlers, with the backing of the West. Now, Mr hypocrite, would you acknowledge the daily suffering of the Palestinian people - which is maintained through the the financial, diplomatic, and military support of the USA and EU? I know like the Israeli-firster you're, you would come with your effing excuses.

Any how, why do we have these many Israeli firsters in a Pakistani defense forum? Why don't you a-holes go to your own forums where you enjoy the pain and suffering of Arab and Muslim men and women you slaughter on daily basis. Screw you.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

That Guy said:


> 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
> 
> How pathetic.
> 
> Instead of proving me wrong, all you did was prove how much of a fool you actually are.
> 
> Stop while you're ahead, 🤣. Your clown behavior is hilarious, but you're just gonna face backlash with this sort of shit behavior.
> 
> You're a dumbass.
> 
> By the way, you're from Somalia, so this criticism can be applied 1000 fold to you. Good job, you've literally humiliated yourself. Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.
> 
> There's a reason why no one with a brain would make the same argument you've made.
> 
> 
> To be fair, they are a defensive system. It's just that they don't want Ukraine defending itself from Russian aggression.
> 
> The s-300 is a potent defense system, as is the s-400, and they don't want their own potent weapons turned against them. I doubt Russia ever developed a counter to their own systems, considering they never thought they'd end up facing their own weapons in enemy hands.




Humiliated myself? How? At this point, you're throwing anything that sticks. I'm out.

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## thetutle

aviator_fan said:


> No society is above reproach. But your comments on muslims being better off in russia compared to the west?
> 
> you know CHechens are Muslims and how they were suppressed? In the 60s muslims weren’t allowed to keep a copy of the Koran . My father visited for work and he was asked for a copy (Secretly).
> 
> Mayor of London is a muslim


You are confusing Russia with the Soviet Union. All religion was suppressed in the Soviet Union. 

Currently, muslims are oppressed in both places. Yes mayor of London is a muslim, but in Russia Khadyrov is a president of Chechnya. So yes there are muslims in leading positions in both civilisations. This says nothing about the level of oppression and discrimination. Native muslims in Russia like tatars probably face less institutionalised discrimiantion ands oppression than western muslims. 

But there are many variables. A white muslim in America probably has it better than a black muslim in russia. A white Tatar in Russia is probably better off than a brown muslim in Austria or Holland.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604864697014095873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604863988319195136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604822276679122944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604818211152740353

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## Hack-Hook

That Guy said:


> The s-300 is a potent defense system, as is the s-400, and they don't want their own potent weapons turned against them. I doubt Russia ever developed a counter to their own systems, considering they never thought they'd end up facing their own weapons in enemy hands.


they made a counter to it , but sadly for them the counter namely Lancet is a little short range and need another drone to guide it


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604919931887239168

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604924695488237568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604922509970866205

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604911940085628928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604911386391371776

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604548265802096641


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## 925boy

sammuel said:


> We have been hearing it , yet the estimations where about the end of this year and the date is arriving. I guess we will see in a few months who was right , which is likely , cause there is so far , no end in sight for this war.


offcourse there is an end in sight- Ukraine keeps lacking military vehicles and quality men to fight more and more...Ukraine JUST CANT KEEP GOING like this forever..Ukraine hasnt won a new town from Russians since KHERSON..why you think this thread so dead these days?

Russia has already denergized Ukraine almost fully, which is an industrial castration.....then now its relying on babushkas in pickup trucks? i never say Ukrainians ride in pick trucks before..they used to boast of "British wolfhound" or Australian "bushmaster"..now its ISIS Pick up trucks that Russian army can fry like sunny side up eggs...smh..


sammuel said:


> As for your remark on resupply from India and China , as far as I know both don't sell any weapons to Russia.


then who is? Iran? aha..now you've met a good "friend" havent you? lmao- Iranian production doesnt stop- Russia is the one holding its orders back...any orders it pays for and places, Iran will fill it..with more getting ready. hamas already expended your ammunition after 28 days, and you begged US for more, it was embarrassing to see.


sammuel said:


> As for Iran , the only 152mm artillery pieces in their stockpile are 30 old towed howitzers ,*D-20 *from the 50th , i doubt they would make an impact.


THen why is US worried about this full fledged "defense partnership" that Russia and Iran apparently have now? lmao.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Which is of course totally useless for any predictions.
> What is interesting is
> 
> How large was the stock when the war started?
> How much have been used?
> How much can be produced each month?
> How much is blown up before it is available at an battery?
> Unless you have this information, any comment is pure speculation.
> The behaviour of Russia of course gives clues. If it is significantly reducing the number of shells/mortar rounds etc, then it is likely to do so because it spends more than it manufactures.


all we know now is that your useless proxy Ukraine has run out of air defense missiles- and blockhead BACKWARD NATO still hasnt solved its Shahed 136 problem...so guess what? its more Shahed 136s loading on Ukraine!
You keep talking semanticsc and mathematics, tahts just McNamara fallacy- Ukraine is about to be BROKEN, period..also , joining NATO adds no real value today, thats why the new countries in EU havent been formally inducted yet...it wont make a difference today. NATO already had US and lost all its wars, why would adding 2 war-avert weak azz scandinavian coiuntries change its destiny? this same NATo that ran from Iran for over 30 years and could only fight in cowardly indirect ways like hiring ISIS for attacks in Iran? like i said -Shahed 136s reloading round the clock on imperialist NATO...Ukraine is NATO's waterloo...its beginning to look that way....cuz its a suckout...how does Biden get US out of this Ukraine mess now after Russia caught NATO With its "hand in the jar"?

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Humiliated myself? How? At this point, you're throwing anything that sticks. I'm out.


Lmao. You literally brought up completely irrelevant topics to try and character assassinate me. Nice job, you clown.

And no, you aren't out. You're gonna keep posting propaganda from the Russian side, because that's all you can do.

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## TopGun786

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Stop making lies about me. I never denied the Holocaust nor do I confirm its validity. I just know one on-going genocide since 1948: The genocide of the Palestinian people, committed by the illegal European settlers, with the backing of the West. Now, Mr hypocrite, would you acknowledge the daily suffering of the Palestinian people - which is maintained through the the financial, diplomatic, and military support of the USA and EU? I know like the Israeli-firster you're, you would come with your effing excuses.
> 
> Any how, why do we have these many Israeli firsters in a Pakistani defense forum? Why don't you a-holes go to your own forums where you enjoy the pain and suffering of Arab and Muslim men and women you slaughter on daily basis. Screw you.


I can see some multiple face zionists having laughing reactions on this reply. Whenever USA and West is shown mirror reflecting their true criminal face they always come up with hollow responses like this.... Possibly to hide embarrassment. Oh wait, but again they don't feel ashamed, that's true inside of them.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> right now , I doubt the upgrade be possible for you . but if you want to buy new system I seriously suggest keep the system until the replacement arrive then donate the old systems if you want . or there is a better way , go our route and build your own system , i don't see why Germany or France can have their own system but Greece cant . its not like your industry is ages behind them
> 
> 
> I really like to know how that 70 concluded
> 
> 
> s300-pmu1 and tor-m1 may not be the latest model but are not shitty also hawk if it is from latest variant is something I rather not face if I'm a pilot .
> also will you replace them tomorrow , or replacement come 6 year later ?


The numbers of Russia missile monthly production rate came from Olexij Danilow, member of Ukraine national security.

Ukraine obviously has lots of moles in Russia. They know very well what the Russians doing and planning.

As predicted earlier Putin will stage the second wave of mobilization in spring, 300,000 new mobi will be called in.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604894212335538180

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604657428397948929

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604906486458564608

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604906486458564608


You mean if Putin draws Belarus into the war, Ukraine and the West would sit idle? Of course Belarus will become a military target by Ukraine and the Nato.

Let’s hope Lukashenko is not mad enough. That’s Putin’s war. He will sacrifice millions Russians without a blink. Why going into a madness.


----------



## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> offcourse there is an end in sight- Ukraine keeps lacking military vehicles and quality men to fight more and more...Ukraine JUST CANT KEEP GOING like this forever..Ukraine hasnt won a new town from Russians since KHERSON..why you think this thread so dead these days?


seems to me they can keep up quite well.
Despite mobilizing 300.000 extra troops Russia is fighting for bakhmut over 5 months now….



925boy said:


> Russia has already denergized Ukraine almost fully, which is an industrial castration.....


Dont exaggerate…









In an ongoing race, Ukraine tries to repair faster than Russia bombs


Ukraine's electrical grid has been under assault from Russian airstrikes for two months. Repair workers are racing to fix damaged power stations, even as the country braces for more attacks.




www.npr.org





Also their military industry is prioritised and gets shipments from west…



925boy said:


> then now its relying on babushkas in pickup trucks? i never say Ukrainians ride in pick trucks before..they used to boast of "British wolfhound" or Australian "bushmaster"..now its ISIS Pick up trucks that Russian army can fry like sunny side up eggs...smh..


Biased onservation. We saw them use civilian pickups in emergency months before. And then kharkiv and kherson fell despite your big mouth claims…


925boy said:


> then who is? Iran? aha..now you've met a good "friend" havent you? lmao- Iranian production doesnt stop- Russia is the one holding its orders back...any orders it pays for and places, Iran will fill it..with more getting ready. hamas already expended your ammunition after 28 days, and you begged US for more, it was embarrassing to see.
> 
> THen why is US worried about this full fledged "defense partnership" that Russia and Iran apparently have now? lmao.


Iran supporting a colonial war of agression. Sad stuff and will make it even more of a pariah state. 


925boy said:


> all we know now is that your useless proxy Ukraine has run out of air defense missiles- and blockhead BACKWARD NATO still hasnt solved its Shahed 136 problem...so guess what? its more Shahed 136s loading on Ukraine!


Strikes lately have been less damaging then before. So your screaming prematurely again.



925boy said:


> You keep talking semanticsc and mathematics, tahts just McNamara fallacy- Ukraine is about to be BROKEN, period..also , joining NATO adds no real value today, thats why the new countries in EU havent been formally inducted yet...it wont make a difference today. NATO already had US and lost all its wars, why would adding 2 war-avert weak azz scandinavian coiuntries change its destiny?


Russia threathened them with nukes. That says enough about how them joining Nato changes the balance even further. 

also losing patience in a low intensity insurgency is a different matter to conventional war and military might. But your to stupid to grasp that.


925boy said:


> this same NATo that ran from Iran for over 30 years and could only fight in cowardly indirect ways like hiring ISIS for attacks in Iran? like i said -Shahed 136s reloading round the clock on imperialist NATO...Ukraine is NATO's waterloo...its beginning to look that way....cuz its a suckout...how does Biden get US out of this Ukraine mess now after Russia caught NATO With its "hand in the jar"?


Nato has been giving ukraine a small part of budget and stocks. As a result russia has lost 9000 military equipment and some of its best troops. 

It is russia who is stuck in this version of afghanistan on steroids (as they lost alot more in 1 year then 10 years afghanistan)

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## TheNoob

Go Russia!

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## ZeGerman

TopGun786 said:


> I can see some multiple face zionists having laughing reactions on this reply. Whenever USA and West is shown mirror reflecting their true criminal face they always come up with hollow responses like this.... Possibly to hide embarrassment. Oh wait, but again they don't feel ashamed, that's true inside of them.


Again this crying over that minor conflict. Last 40 some years saw less civilian palestinian dead then ukraine. 
Palestinian population has exploded over the years. What “genocide” is that? 

Why does a palestinian count a thousand time more then an armenian, greek, ukranian? Hmmm? 
And you expect us to cry along with your disgusting biased care for human life?

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604657428397948929



Russian bots thinking they are fighting NATO,how sweet.

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## Soldier35

There were footage of the use of heavy German self-propelled mortars Panzermörser M113 by the Ukrainian army. Earlier, Ukraine received ten such modernized armored vehicles from Lithuania. The Panzermörser M113 self-propelled mortar was developed on the basis of the American M113 armored personnel carrier in the seventies. The layout scheme of the self-propelled mortar repeats the layout of the base M113 armored personnel carrier, but instead of the troop compartment, an Israeli-made 120-mm Finnish Tampella mortar is placed. The mortar is mounted on a special swivel base and can be removed for firing from the ground. The maximum firing range of the Panzermörser M113 A1G is 6200 meters, the minimum is 500 meters. Rate of fire - 5-10 rounds per minute, ammunition - 60 minutes. The crew, which is also the calculation, consists of 5 people.






M777 howitzers of the Ukrainian army came under attack from Russian Lancet kamikaze drones. The first video, the defeat of the M777 howitzer in the Kherson region, the second M-777 howitzer was struck near the town of Chasov Yar.






Footage of the MT-LB lightly armored transporter crossing the swamp, footage of Ukrainian army soldiers. The production of the MT-LB machine began in 1966. In total, since the start of operation, more than 9,000 different versions of the MT-LB tractor have been produced, and many other combat vehicles have been created on the basis of it.






Footage of the crash of a Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter, possibly Mi-24. As reported, the Mi-8 and Mi-24 of the Ukrainian Air Force worked in pairs, as a result of the departure, the Mi-8 was shot down. The crews of the helicopters tried to leave, but the Mi-8 crashed during the flight. Judging by the video, the crew of the Mi-24 helicopter landed nearby to rescue the crew.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605157305527443456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605157187885621251

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605155745368256512
Zelensky visited his troops in Bakhmut while Putin has never visited his troops anywhere in or near Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605164576957423617

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## Deino

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604657428397948929



Probably too difficult to understand for a Russian propagandist, but simply since NATO hasn’t even exploited its full arsenal, in fact in is only assisting Ukrainian forces by limited deliveries of certain weapons. Would they fill enter the war as NATO or deliver all they have, the war would be over within weeks if not days if it would be limited on conventional warfare.

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605157305527443456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605157187885621251
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605155745368256512
> Zelensky visited his troops in Bakhmut while Putin has never visited his troops anywhere in or near Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605164576957423617



Very brave for sure - but also does go to massively undermine the narrative the russian peddlers of misinformation on this forum are trying to propagate that large portions of bakhmut has fallen and how they are now street fighting and beating the AFU etc ...

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## BHAN85

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605157305527443456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605157187885621251
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605155745368256512
> Zelensky visited his troops in Bakhmut while Putin has never visited his troops anywhere in or near Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605164576957423617


If he really has balls of steels, he must take a gun and fight like any other soldier.

But only poor low class people die in wars.


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## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604548265802096641




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605131147691937794

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605175655297175554

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605222386315444227
Russian losses now at 8,500

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605222386315444227
> Russian losses now at 8,500


But RUssia can replace its losses quicker than Ukraine can- if not, why is Ukraine using pick up trucks now? all their "western" APCs and tanks got busted? lol

ROSTEC came out and said they've increased production of military equipment by A LOT...and the presence of Russian military vehicles in Ukraine "after Ukraine destroyed 8500" of them proves Ukraine hasn't dented Russian military enough...

Russia destroys Ukrainian troops (irreplaceable), while Ukraine destroys Russian equipment- replaceable!

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605222386315444227
> Russian losses now at 8,500


useless and weak NATO STILL CANT ENTER The war after seeing Russia this disavantaged? oh sorry, i forgot NATO is low on ammunition and bravery.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> The numbers of Russia missile monthly production rate came from Olexij Danilow, member of Ukraine national security.
> 
> Ukraine obviously has lots of moles in Russia. They know very well what the Russians doing and planning.
> 
> As predicted earlier Putin will stage the second wave of mobilization in spring, 300,000 new mobi will be called in.


Well I don't knew, Ukraine benefit from showing Russia weak and on brink of collapse it is very hard to consider them credible and impartial source for information on russia

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605238288532504579
$45B for Ukraine set to pass Congress soon

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605238288532504579
> $45B for Ukraine set to pass Congress soon


US doesnt learn- getting sucked out in Ukraine THE SAME WAY it got sucked out in Afghanistan- those dollars are also fake - prepare for more inflation next year.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605197248547143680

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## That Guy

925boy said:


> But RUssia can replace its losses quicker than Ukraine can- if not, why is Ukraine using pick up trucks now? all their "western" APCs and tanks got busted? lol
> 
> ROSTEC came out and said they've increased production of military equipment by A LOT...and the presence of Russian military vehicles in Ukraine "after Ukraine destroyed 8500" of them proves Ukraine hasn't dented Russian military enough...
> 
> Russia destroys Ukrainian troops (irreplaceable), while Ukraine destroys Russian equipment- replaceable!


Lmao, you have no idea how manufacturing works.


----------



## 925boy

That Guy said:


> Lmao, you have no idea how manufacturing works.


i dont need to know how it works- i only need to know who doesnt know how to do it well for defense needs in war time, which is NATO, cheers.

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## That Guy

925boy said:


> useless and weak NATO STILL CANT ENTER The war after seeing Russia this disavantaged? oh sorry, i forgot NATO is low on ammunition and bravery.


Its because Russia is a nuclear power. I suspect you know you're arguing in bad faith, and purposefully engage in dishonest discourse, simply because it suits your narrative.

Lmao, you're not convincing anyone with your arguments.



925boy said:


> i dont need to know how it works- i only need to know who doesnt know how to do it well for defense needs in war time, which is NATO, cheers.


Lmao, more evidence you don't know how it works.

If you did, you'd know that Russian manufacturing is in the shitter right now and rapidly declining, and NATO has always been strong and rapidly increasing.

The Russian bots are gonna feel the same melt down the Armenians felt after believing their own bullshit propaganda.

It's gonna be epic and delicious.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

One outcome from this war is Iranian-developed UAVs and other weapons will be highly sought by many countries. One drone, Shaheed-136, which is not the most sophisticated from Iran, has rendered the Ukrainian energy and power systems virtually inactive. 

And when deployed in swarms, the Shaheed-136 drones are overwhelming the existing air defense systems in Ukraine from the Soviet era and those provided by the Western powers. 

Now, if Karrar drones are provided to Russia, we'll have to see the increased and certain damage they inflict on Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Deino said:


> Probably too difficult to understand for a Russian propagandist, but simply since NATO hasn’t even exploited its full arsenal, in fact in is only assisting Ukrainian forces by limited deliveries of certain weapons. Would they fill enter the war as NATO or deliver all they have, the war would be over within weeks if not days if it would be limited on conventional warfare.




Says by the guy who all he does give negative rating to my posts. 

Back to the topic, Russia also has not used their full armaments. And with the exception of US air power, every other equipment from the West was fully deployed in Ukraine. But if push comes to shove, Russians have their nukes, and they would blow up your fat a\ss and many of the other fat a\sses in EU and other places.

Lastly, NATO - without the US and Turkey - is useless. Ukraine was far stronger than the rest of the EU combined, and they're getting hammered while they have the full backing of the West. So spare me with your "within weeks" nonsense. I aint falling for it.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605238288532504579
> $45B for Ukraine set to pass Congress soon



Money badly needed by poor Americans and middle class, but hey every penny is spent on protecting the empire and the fiat money. I wish average Americans have a say on how their treasure was squandered by the elites.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Says by the guy who all he does give negative rating to my posts.
> 
> Back to the topic, Russia also has not used their full armaments. And with the exception of US air power, every other equipment from the West was fully deployed in Ukraine. But if push comes to shove, Russians have their nukes, and they would blow up your fat a\ss and many of the other fat a\sses in EU and other places.
> 
> Lastly, NATO - without the US and Turkey - is useless. Ukraine was far stronger than the rest of the EU combined, and they're getting hammered while they have the full backing of the West. So spare me with your "within weeks" nonsense. I aint falling for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Money badly needed by poor Americans and middle class, but hey every penny is spent on protecting the empire and the fiat money. I wish average Americans have a say on how their treasure was squandered by the elites.



No Abrams
No Bradley’s 
No Strykers 
No M109s from US stock
No Patriots to date
No THAAD
Only 20 HIMARS/no M270 from US stock with over 1,000 combined in stock
No ATACMs
No Apaches or Black Hawk
No Gray Eagle or Reaper drones
Only 178 artillery pieces from over 2,000+ in stock

Stop being dishonest Hassan

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605282938152779782

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605193213169569792

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## aviator_fan

thetutle said:


> You are confusing Russia with the Soviet Union. All religion was suppressed in the Soviet Union.
> 
> Currently, muslims are oppressed in both places. Yes mayor of London is a muslim, but in Russia Khadyrov is a president of Chechnya. So yes there are muslims in leading positions in both civilisations. This says nothing about the level of oppression and discrimination. Native muslims in Russia like tatars probably face less institutionalised discrimiantion ands oppression than western muslims.
> 
> But there are many variables. A white muslim in America probably has it better than a black muslim in russia. A white Tatar in Russia is probably better off than a brown muslim in Austria or Holland.


I am not responding because I disagree with you and coming at you with a vengeance. I am learning through this forum to learn and also correct my biasis.

You are right about Soviet Union vs. Russia. But how is the Russia system of Govt , down to even the official newspaper (Pravda) still the same system that was ruling Soviet Union from the Kremlin and the war today is along the same lines to start re-establishing dominance that USSR had over the region.

In London there are 100s of mosques and you see people (men and women) in their religious outfits going to work with no judgment.

I don’t know any Muslims in Russia: is it the same freedom of worship and expression they get to convey (this is not an argument again). 

When I searched, i found this article from Russian Times. It’s dated but seems to be different from the sort of atmoshpere that London conveys.



https://www.rt.com/russia/moscow-mayor-says-no-to-more-mosques-in-the-city-669/


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> No Abrams
> No Bradley’s
> No Strykers
> No M109s from US stock
> No Patriots to date
> No THAAD
> Only 20 HIMARS/no M270 from US stock with over 1,000 combined in stock
> No ATACMs
> No Apaches or Black Hawk
> No Gray Eagle or Reaper drones
> Only 178 artillery pieces from over 2,000+ in stock
> 
> Stop being dishonest Hassan



With the exception of THAAD; tanks, apcs, howitzers, and drones of similar kind were already delivered to Ukraine. I think you're the one who is dishonest here.

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## Path-Finder

👆 👆 👆 A good watch.


----------



## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> But RUssia can replace its losses quicker than Ukraine can- if not, why is Ukraine using pick up trucks now? all their "western" APCs and tanks got busted? lol
> 
> ROSTEC came out and said they've increased production of military equipment by A LOT...and the presence of Russian military vehicles in Ukraine "after Ukraine destroyed 8500" of them proves Ukraine hasn't dented Russian military enough...
> 
> Russia destroys Ukrainian troops (irreplaceable), while Ukraine destroys Russian equipment- replaceable!


The attrition replacements are not at parity. It takes a lot more to replace a Ka52, T-90 tank than a Stinger or Javelin replacement that destroys it. MBT for MBT Ukraine will not be able to replace at same pace as Russians, but they have a relative infinite supply of HMRS to counter the armor.

It won’t be the weapons that Bring this war to end. It will be Ukraine’s desire/ability to survive Vs. Russia‘s ability to continue to fight outside its border.

This is almost a role reversal where the Taliban were (at least militarily) like the Ukrainians and Nato was like Russia. So the ability to resist can’t be under estimated.



925boy said:


> US doesnt learn- getting sucked out in Ukraine THE SAME WAY it got sucked out in Afghanistan- those dollars are also fake - prepare for more inflation next year.


This is where you have roles and motivations reversed. Russia is the equivalent of US in Afghanistan and Taliban the military equivalent of Taliban but with a full backstop of support . Russia sadly did not learn that you can’t prevail for the same reason US could not in Afghanistan

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## 925boy

That Guy said:


> Its because Russia is a nuclear power.


so is US, and Some EU countries, so that point is neutralized.


That Guy said:


> I suspect you know you're arguing in bad faith, and purposefully engage in dishonest discourse, simply because it suits your narrative.


So you're suspecting because you cant argue anymore since Ukraine military hasnt taken any town from Russian forces since half of Kherson?


That Guy said:


> Lmao, you're not convincing anyone with your arguments.


obviously i did- because you couldnt argue against them- all you Ukraine army supporters have been quiet on this thread recently- its not because i had to "convince" you- you were already "convinced" when Ukrainian forces took Kyiv and Kharviv back..no?


That Guy said:


> Lmao, more evidence you don't know how it works.


arguing in the cloud?


That Guy said:


> If you did, you'd know that Russian manufacturing is in the shitter right now and rapidly declining,


then why cant NATO enter the war or Ukraine do better? afterall F-22 told us over 8500 Russian vehicles have been destroyed--and NATO still cant enter the war?


That Guy said:


> and NATO has always been strong and rapidly increasing.


only on paper- last few wars says otherwise.


That Guy said:


> The Russian bots are gonna feel the same melt down the Armenians felt after believing their own bullshit propaganda.


LMAO.

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## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> If he really has balls of steels, he must take a gun and fight like any other soldier.
> 
> But only poor low class people die in wars.


Again, what's one more gun can do to a war?

He is THE LEADER of the nation, and his job is to Rally his own country and rally outside support, and by all account, he is doing a very good job at that. It's his job to know his own troop and deploy them with the help with the general, you won't see a general holding a gun and fight like any other soldier, because it is really extremely stupid to have done that, apart from if you are Russian of course, because this happened.









Andrei Sukhovetsky - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









Vladimir Frolov (general) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









Kanamat Botashev - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












Roman Kutuzov (general) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





You expect the head of nation go in and fight it out? To be fair, was Putin even ever close to the frontline so this can happen??

We don't live in the medieval time anymore; we don't have King Arthur leading the troop in front or Alexander the Great charging with Cavalry with his men. Now it's more important for these people to do what they need to do behind the scene because losing a person in command level is detrimental to any army in war. Russia lost 4 General, confirm, 11 if we go by the rumor.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605271532649222144
GRAPHIC: There is a brutal video of clip a where Russian forces assaulted and eliminated an entire Ukrainian army front-line trench network. It is shown in the below Telegram channel.

https://****/Slavyangrad/25663

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605251623659380743

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605320788764004352


----------



## Ali_Baba

something new just went bang in Russia….

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## S10

Vergennes said:


> Russian bots thinking they are fighting NATO,how sweet.
> 
> View attachment 906892


Weapons from NATO
Training from NATO
Advisers from NATO
Funding from NATO
Intelligence from NATO

Sure, it's not a proxy war at all. NATO is totally not involved. As far as "vaporizing Russian military", you'd perish in the same process.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605318984710201345

Zelensky set to travel to Washington and address US Congress

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605350526866292736
New $1.8B package for Ukraine to include a Patriot battery and JDAM bombs



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> With the exception of THAAD; tanks, apcs, howitzers, and drones of similar kind were already delivered to Ukraine. I think you're the one who is dishonest here.



US armored capabilities are far superior to ancient Soviet era armor.

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## jhungary

S10 said:


> Weapons from NATO
> Training from NATO
> Advisers from NATO
> Funding from NATO
> Intelligence from NATO
> 
> Sure, it's not a proxy war at all. NATO is totally not involved. As far as "vaporizing Russian military", you'd perish in the same process.


The definition of a "Proxy" war is so that the country behind the proxy was not directly involved. 

And if Russia is even on par like the paper would suggest, then

Weapons from NATO
Training from NATO
Advisers from NATO
Funding from NATO
Intelligence from NATO

Wouldn't really make a different. Because I cannot give you weapon to fight if you are unwilling to fight, I cannot give you training to fight if you wouldn't learn, I will doubt there are still NATO adviser in Ukraine right now, but then if they do, all they can do is advise, you still need to do the dirty work.

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## The SC

Zelinsky visits Bakhmut front..






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605257387849424905


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605318984710201345
> 
> Zelensky set to travel to Washington and address US Congress


There was this joke in Ukraine that his Personal Protection detail urge him not to go to the US, it's not safe there, imagine being in Irpin, Izyum, Kherson and now Bakhmut and then got gunned down by a teenager trying to mug him...., that's why he hasn't visited since the beginning of the war.....

lol...


----------



## VCheng

jhungary said:


> There was this joke in Ukraine that his Personal Protection detail urge him not to go to the US, it's not safe there, imagine being in Irpin, Izyum, Kherson and now Bakhmut and then got gunned down by a teenager trying to mug him...., that's why he hasn't visited since the beginning of the war.....
> 
> lol...



At least he is not going to the south side of Chicago.

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## jhungary

VCheng said:


> At least he is not going to the south side of Chicago.


Actually, which is worse???

South side of Chicago or South Central of LA??

And why it's always the southern part of a city being the wildwest? This wouldn't do good to the South...


----------



## VCheng

jhungary said:


> Actually, which is worse???
> 
> South side of Chicago or South Central of LA??
> 
> And why it's always the southern part of a city being the wildwest? This wouldn't do good to the South...



I am not going that off topic in this thread.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605332363935784960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605338719585964033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605129561905078272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605212471853473793


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605302541277073408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605160214453436416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605169150346903553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605174610617544704


----------



## gambit

S10 said:


> Weapons from NATO
> Training from NATO
> Advisers from NATO
> Funding from NATO
> Intelligence from NATO
> 
> Sure, it's not a proxy war at all. NATO is totally not involved. As far as "vaporizing Russian military", you'd perish in the same process.


This is called 'subsidiarity'...






Principle of Subsidiarity - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics







www.sciencedirect.com





According to the principle of subsidiarity, every issue should be decided at the lowest level that involves all those who are affected.​
Poutine did not started out looking for a fight against the US/NATO. A 'proxy' war is if both the US/NATO and Russia fights indirectly thru agents. Here, it is Russia against Ukraine and the US/NATO came in later.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605255323371053061

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605229410931580930

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605336472051412993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605334593019723776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605280113855287308

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605258191532703748

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> No Abrams
> No Bradley’s
> No Strykers
> No M109s from US stock
> No Patriots to date
> No THAAD
> Only 20 HIMARS/no M270 from US stock with over 1,000 combined in stock
> No ATACMs
> No Apaches or Black Hawk
> No Gray Eagle or Reaper drones
> Only 178 artillery pieces from over 2,000+ in stock
> 
> Stop being dishonest Hassan



Idiotic and NATO is acting like Wussies.

NATO should double down and put soldiers on the ground and finish off Putin and balkanize Russia.

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## sammuel

jhungary said:


> Again, what's one more gun can do to a war?
> 
> He is THE LEADER of the nation, and his job is to Rally his own country and rally outside support, and by all account, he is doing a very good job at that. It's his job to know his own troop and deploy them with the help with the general, you won't see a general holding a gun and fight like any other soldier, because it is really extremely stupid to have done that, apart from if you are Russian of course, because this happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrei Sukhovetsky - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Frolov (general) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kanamat Botashev - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roman Kutuzov (general) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You expect the head of nation go in and fight it out? To be fair, was Putin even ever close to the frontline so this can happen??
> 
> We don't live in the medieval time anymore; we don't have King Arthur leading the troop in front or Alexander the Great charging with Cavalry with his men. Now it's more important for these people to do what they need to do behind the scene because losing a person in command level is detrimental to any army in war. Russia lost 4 General, confirm, 11 if we go by the rumor.





BHAN85 said:


> If he really has balls of steels, he must take a gun and fight like any other soldier.
> 
> But only poor low class people die in wars.



I will add that some here have a short memory.

A year ago Russians where approaching Kiev , I doubt many thought Ukraine had a chance to hold more than a week.

Yet Zelenskyy stayed in Kiev encouraged his people , that by that time were preparing Molotov cocktails to defend their city.,

He stayed on and did every thing expected from a leader , though it was clear he was number 1 on the Russian wanted list.

An Honest man will say kudus to that.

~

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605243393503789057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605255858979479566

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*MoD Russia, [12/20/2022 7:12 AM]*
⚡️*Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine 
(20 December 2022) *

Russian Federation Armed Forces continue the special military operation.

◽️In Kupyansk direction, as a result of air and artillery strikes on the AFU up to 30 Ukrainian servicemen and 3 motor vehicles have been eliminated near Kislovka (Kharkov region).

◽️In Krasniy-Liman direction, the concentration of enemy's manpower and military equipment has been hit near Nevskoye (Donetsk People's Republic). 3 AFU sabotage and reconnaissance groups have been eliminated near Chervonaya Dibrova and Stelmakhovka (Lugansk People's Republic). The enemy's losses in this direction amounted up to 50 Ukrainian servicemen, 2 armoured fighting vehicles and 3 pickup trucks.

◽️In Donetsk direction, Russian troops continue their offensive. As a result of a complex shelling of the AFU's positions, more than 100 Ukrainian servicemen, 4 infantry fighting vehicles and 2 motor vehicles have been eliminated near Ivano-Daryevka, Bakhmutskoye and Orlovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

◽️In South Donetsk direction, provisional bases of the units of the AFU 61st and 72nd mechanised brigades have been destroyed by Russian artillery fire near Konstantinovka and Zolotaya Niva (Donetsk People's Republic). In addition, 1 AFU sabotage and reconnaissance group has been destroyed near Novodonetskoye (Donetsk People's Republic). Total enemy losses in this direction amounted to 70 Ukrainian servicemen killed and wounded, 3 armoured fighting vehicles and 2 pickup trucks.

💥Operational and Tactical Aviation, Missile Troops and artillery of groups of troops (forces) of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have neutralised an AFU munition depot near Nevskoye (Lugansk People's Republic), 64 artillery units at firing positions, as well as manpower and military equipment in 143 areas.

◽️2 radar stations of Ukrainian S-300 air defence systems deployed from central Ukraine have been found and destroyed near Ukrainka (Donetsk People's Republic). 1 U.S.-manufactured AN/TPQ-36 counterbattery warfare radar has been destroyed near Konstantinovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

💥2 AFU MiG-29 aircraft have been shot down by the Russian Air Force's fighter aircraft near Stepanovka and Belozyorskoye (Donetsk People's Republic). 1 AFU Mi-8 helicopter has been shot down near Timopheyevka (Donetsk People's Republic). Russian anti-aircraft defence forces have shot down 1 AFU Su-25 aircraft near Ugledar (Donetsk People's Republic).

💥1 Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter has been shot down near Severnoye (Donetsk People's Republic). In addition, 5 unmanned aerial vehicles have been destroyed near Rudovo (Lugansk People's Republic), Volnovakha and Novoandreyevka (Donetsk People's Republic) and Velikiye Kopani (Kherson region).

📊In total, 347 airplanes and 186 helicopters, 2,689 unmanned aerial vehicles, 398 air defence missile systems, 7,168 tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, 931 fighting vehicles equipped with MLRS, 3,693 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 7,674 units of special military hardware have been destroyed during the special military operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #report
@mod_russia_en

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605222386315444227
> Russian losses now at 8,500

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## That Guy

925boy said:


> so is US, and Some EU countries, so that point is neutralized.
> 
> So you're suspecting because you cant argue anymore since Ukraine military hasnt taken any town from Russian forces since half of Kherson?
> 
> obviously i did- because you couldnt argue against them- all you Ukraine army supporters have been quiet on this thread recently- its not because i had to "convince" you- you were already "convinced" when Ukrainian forces took Kyiv and Kharviv back..no?
> 
> arguing in the cloud?
> 
> then why cant NATO enter the war or Ukraine do better? afterall F-22 told us over 8500 Russian vehicles have been destroyed--and NATO still cant enter the war?
> 
> only on paper- last few wars says otherwise.
> 
> LMAO.


Lmao. This is pure shit tier logic.

First, there is no "neutralized" here. Nuclear powers simply don't fight directly against each other, as it could lead to the end of the world. That was my point. If you're too ignorant to understand something this basic, then I can't help you.

Second, you literally said Russia would never leave Kherson. Operations have largely stopped on both sides, except for a fee small places, all due to the weather.

Third, Nah bro, no one from the pro-Ukraine side is quiet. That's just your imagination. Also, you didn't convince anyone, but go ahead and pretend otherwise, hope it'll help you sleep well at night.

Next, you also apparently don't know how to make proper arguments, so you're doubly ignorant.

Finally, as I explained above, two nuclear powers don't ever fight for fear of a nuclear escalation. If NATO gets directly involved, Russia may end up becoming desperate enough to use nukes, which would lead to nuclear retaliation.

The concept is called Mutually Assured Destruction. Look it up.

Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. It's hilarious that you think you do, because it honestly makes me suspect that you're a high schooler.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> View attachment 907023


2689 UAVs! 7168 tanks and IFVs! fucking LMAO 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 . Those are more than Ukraine ever had in its inventory!

This is why only clowns believe Russian figures.

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## K_Bin_W

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Idiotic and NATO is acting like Wussies.
> 
> NATO should double down and put soldiers on the ground and finish off Putin and balkanize Russia.


Russia is already fighting NATO... Always remember

If Russia wins (Which it is and will) Ukraine lost
If Russia loses NATO won.

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## sammuel

K_Bin_W said:


> Russia is already fighting NATO... Always remember
> 
> If Russia wins (Which it is and will) Ukraine lost
> If Russia loses NATO won.



If Russia wins the whole world lost.

It means that a powerful nation like Russia can just invade , destroy and murder simply cause they are stronger , no better than than the law of the jungle,

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## PakFactor

sammuel said:


> If Russia wins the whole world lost.
> 
> It means that a powerful nation like Russia can just invade , destroy and murder simply cause they are stronger , no better than than the law of the jungle,



No different than US, France & Co., so it makes no difference how the world is lost.


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## sammuel

PakFactor said:


> No different than US, France & Co., so it makes no difference how the world is lost.




How i new this was coming.

Tell me how one wrong committed in the past , justifies this wrong committed in the present ?

If your neighbors murders someone , will you now be justified also to murder someone ? what will you say , every body is doing it nowadays ?

Is France and US occupying a neighboring state now ? No. So this argument is irrelevant , and just serves to justify evil and perpetuate evil.

~

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## gambit

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Idiotic and NATO is acting like Wussies.
> 
> NATO should double down and put soldiers on the ground and finish off Putin and balkanize Russia.


We are trying to prove that Ukrainian soldiers are braver, larger, meaner, and angrier than NATO soldiers.


----------



## zectech

sammuel said:


> How i new this was coming.
> 
> Tell me how one wrong committed in the past , justifies this wrong committed in the present ?
> 
> If your neighbors murders someone , will you now be justified also to murder someone ? what will you say , every body is doing it nowadays ?
> 
> Is France and US occupying a neighboring state now ? No. So this argument is irrelevant , and just serves to justify evil and perpetuate evil.
> 
> ~


I am running every psy-op known to man on the Trumpers on their forums, and I only get blank stares in replies. The standard reply from Trumper putinites is "Zelensky is a Jew". And "something about jews promote gays and Ukraine is an LGBTQ nation of Jewish drag queens/homos. That Zelensky snorts coke and is a cokehead."

The entire Putin basket of deplorables hates jews, Biden/USA, NATO, Ukraine and the West.









Putin Is 'Grand Godfather of Extreme Nationalism' – Clinton


U.S. presidential candidate Hillary Clinton called Russian President Vladimir Putin the “grand godfather of this global brand of extreme nationalism,” speaking at a campaign event in Nevada.The former U.S.




www.themoscowtimes.com





Putin is the fuhrer for those that respond to trump white nationalist dog whistles.

If Ukraine pulls out a victory, this will be a massive defeat of the deplorables. And Putin regimes in the middle east would be running for the hills. China is invested in a Russia win, this would make China shit their pants if Ukraine recaptures Crimea.









Trending: Clinton Says Half Of Trump Supporters Are In A 'Basket Of Deplorables'


Lookups for 'deplorable' spike following comments at a New York fund-raiser




www.merriam-webster.com





You guys can take the easy way and promote Zelensky and NATO. The entire anti-imperalist camp and nazi camp took the bait and are fully with Putin. Or you can take the impossible road of trying to promote antisemites and antisemitism and see where that leads. The handlers of Putin and Trump are the most cut throat anywhere. Trump is using soft antisemitism to reform the Republican Party. Trump family is promoting doubt in modern medicine to save their campaign. Trump would throw anybody under the bus to return to the white house. Ask Michael Cohen about being thrown under the bus. I like DeSantis because he is not batshit crazy. Though if Ukraine wins, every city in the US needs to build a statue to Biden.

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## TopGun786

sammuel said:


> If Russia wins the whole world lost.
> 
> It means that a powerful nation like Russia can just invade , destroy and murder simply cause they are stronger , no better than than the law of the jungle,


Not a fan of Russia but we have seen one another nation (albeit very small) doing the same sort of things ''invade, destroy, and murder simply cause they are stronger, no better than the law of the jungle''. That small nation has the USA and many western countries on her back.

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## Hack-Hook

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605229410931580930


part of preparation for annexing Lviv ?

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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> If Russia wins the whole world lost.
> 
> It means that a powerful nation like Russia can just invade , destroy and murder simply cause they are stronger , no better than than the law of the jungle,


Funniest comment ever coming from hypocritical Israelis.



Hack-Hook said:


> part of preparation for annexing Lviv ?


Is there anyone of fighting age eft to fight in Poland? Most young Polish had fled to other European countries to be economic fodder migrants and spreading their foul "Koorva" everywhere.

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## A.P. Richelieu

PakFactor said:


> No different than US, France & Co., so it makes no difference how the world is lost.


When did US or France annex territory, after the Geneva Conventions made it illegal? Russia s fighting a war of aggression to enlarge its empire.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> With the exception of THAAD; tanks, apcs, howitzers, and drones of similar kind were already delivered to Ukraine. I think you're the one who is dishonest here.


What tanks/apcs/howitzers?
How many from total stock? 

Dont they learn somalians to count? 

Come on russian copy-paste bot. You have to do better.

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## jhungary

CNN tour of Snake Island after it was recaptured by the Ukrainian.

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## sammuel

TopGun786 said:


> Not a fan of Russia but we have seen one another nation (albeit very small) doing the same sort of things ''invade, destroy, and murder simply cause they are stronger, no better than the law of the jungle''. That small nation has the USA and many western countries on her back.



Off topic bs,

Israel did not start the war in 48 , not in 67 not in 73.

Palestinians could have gotten their state in 48 but decided to attack Israel with the support of 7 Arab invading countries , talk about invading . . .

We where a country struggling for our survival and had go to war imposed upon us.

Here we have a super power invading another country only to grab a little more land , that they already have an abundance off. Hardly the same case. 

~

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605337886496268289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605340879027306498


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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> What tanks/apcs/howitzers?
> How many from total stock?
> 
> Dont they learn somalians to count?
> 
> Come on russian copy-paste bot. You have to do better.



Just count how many of those equipment that each European country in the EU plus the US, Canada and Australia provided to Ukraine and then add them all up.Fyi, we aren't talking about the existing armory from Soviet era that was already in Ukrainian hands we're talking armory that they West has provided to Ukraine.

No, they didn't learn from us on how to count; they learned it from the *queer* and* feminist-run* Netherlands.

Well, if I am Russian-posting bot, aren't you Zelenky's bot? At least Russians are fully independent while Zelensky is Washington's puppet. The whole Ukraine has been used as a cannon fodder by Washington and Londion. So what is the point of being a bot for a puppet govt led by a puppet president?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Hack-Hook said:


> part of preparation for annexing Lviv ?




It looks like it. There is a major offensive expected to start early next year from the Russian side, and the whole West is panicking. Things will become very clear after this new offensive is in the mid phase.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Just count how many of those equipment that each European country in the EU plus the US, Canada and Australia provided to Ukraine and then add them all up.Fyi, we aren't talking about the existing armory from Soviet era that was already in Ukrainian hands we're talking armory that they West has provided to Ukraine.
> 
> No, they didn't learn from us on how to count; they learned from the *queer* and* feminist-run* Netherlands.
> 
> Well, if I am Russian-posting bot, aren't you Zelenky's bot? At least Russians are fully independent while Zelensky is Washington's puppet. The whole Ukraine has been used as a cannon fodder by Washington and Londion. So what is the point of being a bot for a puppet govt led by a puppet president?


I meant look at what type. 
alot of old soviet stock is being send by many eastern european countries. 

Other then that we have a few newer systems (though often a small amount of total available), and alot of javelins/stingers and the like instead of the “big guns”.

Its really a mere fraction of total military stock. 
You know this. You are not blind. 
J-22 had a great overview list for USA..stop ignoring facts.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It looks like it. There is a major offensive expected to start early next year from the Russian side, and the whole West is panicking. Things will become very clear after this new offensive is in the mid phase.



40 miles convoy with the best Russian troops failed but somehow less equipped and undertrained mobiks will succeed,looks like things will go well. 

Last time Ukraine was unprepared for a northern offensive,right now the northern border has been heavily fortified.

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## TopGun786

sammuel said:


> Off topic bs,
> 
> Israel did not start the war in 48 , not in 67 not in 73.
> 
> Palestinians could have gotten their state in 48 but decided to attack Israel with the support of 7 Arab invading countries , talk about invading . . .
> 
> We where a country struggling for our survival and had go to war imposed upon us.
> 
> Here we have a super power invading another country only to grab a little more land , that they already have an abundance off. Hardly the same case.
> 
> ~


You were not a country. You were invaders. You were trying to steal others' lands and homes through terrorism and genocide and you succeeded.
You are still doing the same.
And it is not a conflict... it's just a one-sided war waged on unarmed Palestinians by killing their youth and children especially. But that will have a limit until things gonna reverse on you, and till you to hide behind last of the trees and stones.

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## sammuel

TopGun786 said:


> And it is not a conflict... it's just a one-sided war waged on unarmed Palestinians ]



More of topic bs

it is Palestinians that choose the path of war , they did in 48 and they do today , when they voted Hamas they knew what they will get.

I don't know where you live , but i live on my ancestors land , even the names here of places - Jerusalem , Bear Sheva , mount Carmel means nothing in Arabic only in Hebrew.

~

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> Well I don't knew, Ukraine benefit from showing Russia weak and on brink of collapse it is very hard to consider them credible and impartial source for information on russia


Nonsense
What’s Ukraine interest of showing Russia as weak?
That’s the opposite.
Ukraine has interest in showing Russia as a dangerous hooligan, a dangerous rapist with big gun.
What do you think why Zelinskki wants to draw the entire world into this war?


----------



## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> 40 miles convoy with the best Russian troops failed but somehow less equipped and undertrained mobiks will succeed,looks like things will go well.
> 
> Last time Ukraine was unprepared for a northern offensive,right now the northern border has been heavily fortified.


You need to bear in mind you are replying to a person who said Poland is about to annex Lviv.......

That show you how much you should engage to said person.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> *If Russia wins the whole world lost.*
> 
> It means that a powerful nation like Russia can just invade , destroy and murder simply cause they are stronger , no better than than the law of the jungle,




Nope; it is a loss for the Zionist plantation called the West. So perhaps you should qualify it. 



Vergennes said:


> 40 miles convoy with the best Russian troops failed but somehow less equipped and undertrained mobiks will succeed,looks like things will go well.
> 
> Last time Ukraine was unprepared for a northern offensive,right now the northern border has been heavily fortified.




The early offensive didn't have enough troops. The upcoming one will be executed professionally. The Bakhmut meat grinder is a preview of what is about to come. This one will have enough forces, enough weapons, and will be led according to what Russian military leaders hope to achieve without much interference from the Kremlin. 

The early offensive was also a diversionary tactic as well. It was designed to keep a large number of Ukrainian force in the North, while Russians liberated the Donbas region. It worked.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> More of topic bs
> 
> it is Palestinians that choose the path of war , they did in 48 and they do today , when they voted Hamas they knew what they will get.
> 
> I don't know where you live , but i live on my ancestors land , even the names here of places - Jerusalem , Bear Sheva , mount Carmel means nothing in Arabic only in Hebrew.
> 
> ~




Going around the world for 2000 years and suddenly claiming the Holy Land for yourself. If it was your land, where were you in the past 2000 years? You think you can insult people's intelligence with such nonsense.

And since when non-Muslim white Europeans, which is what most of Israelis are, settled in the Holy Land and the Shaam before the 20th century?

You came on the back of the Freemasony empire and you'll go down with it when it is no more. That is a divine promise. You've already gone through 2 divine punishments, and a third one awaits you. Make no mistake about it, the evil that you perpetrated in the Holy Land, in the Levant, and in the rest of the world will have an end.

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## TopGun786

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Going around the world for 2000 years and suddenly claiming the Holy Land for yourself. If it was your land, where were you in the past 2000 years? You think you can insult people's intelligence with such nonsense.
> 
> And since when white Europeans, which is what most of Israelis are, settled in the Holy Land and the Shaam before the 20th century?
> 
> You came on the back of the Freemasony empire and you'll go down with it when it is no more. That is a divine promise. You've already gone through 2 divine punishments, and a third one awaits you. Make no mistake about it, the evil that you perpetrated in the Holy Land, in the Levant, and in the rest of the world will have an end.


Couldn't agree more.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The early offensive didn't have enough troops. *The upcoming one will be executed professionally*. The Bakhmut meat grinder is a preview of what is about to come. This one will have enough forces, enough weapons, and will be led according to what Russian military leaders hope to achieve without much interference from the Kremlin.
> 
> The early offensive was also a diversionary tactic as well. It was designed to keep a large number of Ukrainian force in the North, while Russians liberated the Donbas region. It worked.



So you basically recognize Russian forces were up to now just incompetent. 

Yes everyone knows Kharkiv,Chernihiv,Sumy and Kyiv were just feints,Kherson was also a faint,as well as Lyman,Kupiansk,Izyum and so on.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605523972774252545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605518663817170944

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nope; it is a loss for the Zionist plantation called the West. So perhaps you should qualify it.



I will just leave that as is , to let people figure out for themselves what you are all about.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> I will just leave that as is , to let people figure out for themselves what you are all about.



And I'll just leave that as it is too, to let people that your mainstream media didn't brainwash "to figure out what you're all about".  

Using that fake charge is not gonna work on me, buddy. I will say it again: The West is a Zionist plantation whether you accept it or not.

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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605332363935784960
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605338719585964033
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605129561905078272
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605212471853473793



Hopefully his PR have schooled him in the right language - in particular the need to say thankyou many times for the amount of USA support so far - before of course - "asking for more".

Optics are very important in the USA ...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605507631732457472

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605523972774252545



I think we are over the worst of the winter now - and gas prices will drop from here on out. Additionally, most countries in 2023 will be focusing on building strategic infrastructure to increase their energy storage reserves by insisting that power makers hold "X" amount of energy reserves alway - eg 6weeks to 3 months always.. etc.

The dark days are over! Winter Solstice is today in the UK ....​








Winter Solstice is today with just 7 hours and 50 minutes of daylight


Winter Solstice marks the beginning of winter in the astronomical calendar. It is also the shortest day, with only 7 hours and 50 minutes of daylight in the UK.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## K_Bin_W

PakFactor said:


> No different than US, France & Co., so it makes no difference how the world is lost.


I was gona respond but you beat me to it.... Some keyboard warriors live in a very different universe or should I say a well.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605529903834734593

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## Viet

Watching live speech of Putin before Russia army with all commanders.

He threatens again with nuclear weapons.

He says there is no limit of money, no restriction of financial means at all. The army gets all the money it needs.


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Nonsense
> What’s Ukraine interest of showing Russia as weak?
> That’s the opposite.
> Ukraine has interest in showing Russia as a dangerous hooligan, a dangerous rapist with big gun.
> What do you think why Zelinskki wants to draw the entire world into this war?


Actually this war is becoming a media war. And yes Ukraine benefit from showing Russia weak. They say look the help worked but we need more to finish Russia

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> Actually this war is becoming a media war. And yes Ukraine benefit from showing Russia weak. They say look the help worked but we need more to finish Russia


Sure, that’s a media war too because the world is watching. Finishing Russia? It’s Putin himself he finished Russia. it’s just a matter of time. Russia economy is finished. It takes some more time until Russia is militarily finished. It’s hopeless the russians can keep their face.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Sure, that’s a media war too because the world is watching. Finishing Russia? It’s Putin himself he finished Russia. it’s just a matter of time Russia economy is finished. It takes some more time until Russia is militarily finished. It’s hopeless the russians can keep their face.


Well if you think without those weapons, Ukraine can stand for one week

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> Well if you think without those weapons, Ukraine can stand for one week


Without javelin anti tank missiles Russia tanks would take Kiew in a week. But Putin missed the chance at the beginning of the war.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Without javelin anti tank missiles Russia tanks would take Kiew in a week. But Putin missed the chance at the beginning of the war.


Russia started war with far less force than needed and made the mistake of going after Kyiv instead of cutting the border witn Romania and poland

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## aviator_fan

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Idiotic and NATO is acting like Wussies.
> 
> NATO should double down and put soldiers on the ground and finish off Putin and balkanize Russia.


This is the classic definition of outsourcing: have somebody do for you a task that otherwise you yourself find not productive/profitable or pleasant doing. It happens in the commercial world.

Are you bitter that Putin is fighting a non-winnable (admittedly not losing either) with his own citizens but his true enemy has outsourced it? THats the problem with being outsmarted.

Btw, colonial Britain also fought its world wars with soldiers from colonized lands (India, Australia, New Zealand). Not a fan of colonials but they were smart enough to have pulled it off. It may not be fair but fair is not how the world works.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia started war with far less force than needed and made the mistake of going after Kyiv instead of cutting the border witn Romania and poland


Thats up for historians. Taking Kiew and killing Ukraine gov is not wrong. If successful the war would be probably over in one week. Putin just missed Ukraine military buildup. Ukraine has prepared for this war, they know it’s coming. Putin believes too much to his own propaganda. No surprise he was Isolated for 16 months. he met nobody during corona pandemic in Russia.

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## 925boy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> When did US or France annex territory, after the Geneva Conventions made it illegal? Russia s fighting a war of aggression to enlarge its empire.


but both Iraq and Afghanistan were illegal wars by US- so what were they f or? not to expand its empire? US started war on China low key because its empire is threatened- you really shouldnt have brought this up- ANGLO saxons are the most imperialistic group on earth- no one comes close. just keep quiet please, at least out of respect for the colonized.

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## vi-va

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia started war with far less force than needed and made the mistake of going after Kyiv instead of cutting the border witn Romania and poland


Totally agree. His mistake ruined Russia.

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## Ali_Baba

How JDAM ‘Smart Bombs’ Could Help Ukraine Smash Frontline Targets With Eerie Precision


Satellite-guided bombs have accuracy to within 15 feet of their target—a serious upgrade from the outdated Soviet munitions Ukraine’s fighters currently rely on.




www.popularmechanics.com







> In use since the late 1990s, the weapon will be somewhat easy for the Pentagon to give up as it lacks the standoff capabilities required for a potential war with China.





> The U.S. and its allies typically use the JDAM on American-made fighters and attack aircraft. Ukraine, on the other hand, flies older, Cold War-era Su-27 (NATO code name: “Flanker”) air superiority fighters, MiG-29 “Fulcrum” multi-role fighters, and Su-25 “Frogfoot” fighters whose ordnance rails are fitted to carry Soviet-designed ordnance. *However, an unknown number of Su-27s and MiG-29s have been modified with the American LAU-118 ordnance rails, which attach to BRU-32 (also American) bomb racks. These racks can accommodate JDAMs.*



Good strategy the Americans to use up stock it does not need onto Russians as the JDAMs are more than good enough for the Russia-Ukraine War. ie the American tax payer can get their money's worth out of this stock by using it against Russian's.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605575327643623424

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## vi-va

Viet said:


> Thats up for historians. Taking Kiew and killing Ukraine gov is not wrong. If successful the war would be probably over in one week. Putin just missed Ukraine military buildup. Ukraine has prepared for this war, they know it’s coming. Putin believes too much to his own propaganda. No surprise he was Isolated for 16 months. he met nobody during corona pandemic in Russia.


Everyone surrounds him told him that Russia Army is so strong, which can take Ukraine in a week. 
But they didn't tell him the truth that most of the money were spent on yacht and big house in Europe instead of upgrading the equipment.


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## 925boy

vi-va said:


> Totally agree. His mistake ruined Russia.


how is Russia ruined? America spent 20+ years in Afghanistan, lost the war, and you didnt say they were ruined, so please help me understand how Russia is factually "ruined".

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia started war with far less force than needed and made the mistake of going after Kyiv instead of cutting the border witn Romania and poland


There are no way Russia can attack Polish or Romania border.

Think about it. If they managed to f'ed up logistic going to Kyiv, what do you think they extended that line for another 200 km westward further out into Romania and Polish border??

Also, if they do that, with the Ukrainian performance as we all now know, the Russian is looking at a repeat of Stalingrad, only this time they are the German 6th Army. You are talking about a Coudron type attack with 1 side facing Polish and Romanian border which Russia cannot cross into and the other pressed against by the Ukrainian all with an extended supply line, if the Russian really did this, this will make their Kyiv blunder looks like child's play....Well, I kind of want to see how that go down....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605580169472679936

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## Viet

vi-va said:


> Everyone surrounds him told him that Russia Army is so strong, which can take Ukraine in a week.
> But they didn't tell him the truth that most of the money were spent on yacht and big house in Europe instead of upgrading the equipment.


You know the story of the king wearing invisible cloth? Putin is the king of Russia. There is no opposition. After 20y in power he only listens to himself. He considers other are dumb stooges. All say to him, he has the longest penis. At some point in time he believes he has the longest.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605580169472679936



The only way that Ukraine can lose this war is through war fatigue of its "allies" - the ukranian people are up for this and by every measure - want to reclaim all of what has been taken from them. It is important that sufficient supplies and weapons are provided such that once western fatigue sets in - Ukraine still has enough weapons to get the job done.

The recent "audit" by Rushi Sunak is a potential co-ordinated manifestation for ukraine to "accept" the status quo while "publically" saying it will support Ukraine until the end.

Maybe Ukraine also see's/senses this and therefore has created an imgainary threat from Belarus again - to force greater weapons supplies incase interest drops off.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605572139599265792

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## Ali_Baba

Biden launches investigation into US-made tech in Iranian-built drones


Despite strict export controls in place to prevent Iran from obtaining such materials, evidence has emerged that Tehran is finding more than enough tech to manufacture the deadly drones.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> More sanctions coming to Iran now..

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> And since when non-Muslim white Europeans, which is what most of Israelis are, settled in the Holy Land and the Shaam before the 20th century?


Actually, A lot of Israelis are Jews from Arab countries and look nothing like white people. Back in 1940's they were way too dark to be accepted into western countries due to their racist and apartheid policies, so they had to go to Israel. Among jews there is hierarchy with whitest jews being on top like German jews etc and dark Ethiopian jews being on the bottom. Israel is the dumping ground for the unwanted ones. Its a tough job being an Israeli. Would you rather be an Israeli shooting at protesters or a new York banker? 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You came on the back of the Freemasony empire and you'll go down with it when it is no more.


They all realise this. But they have a pretty good deal from the anglo empire and are enjoying their position which has been the best in the last 2,000 years. 


aviator_fan said:


> You are right about Soviet Union vs. Russia. But how is the Russia system of Govt , down to even the official newspaper (Pravda) still the same system that was ruling Soviet Union from the Kremlin and the war today is along the same lines to start re-establishing dominance that USSR had over the region.


They want to re-establish Russian dominance, not soviet dominance. Noone is communist anymore. That game is over. Now is the time of empire building. Russians dismantled their empire in 1991 thinking the Anglo saxons will dismantle their empire also, but they were tricked. So now Russians are rebuilding their empire but its probably too late. 



aviator_fan said:


> In London there are 100s of mosques and you see people (men and women) in their religious outfits going to work with no judgment.


Just like russia. But russian muslims are native to russia and dont wear funny middle eastern clothes. Any Muslim in the west that tries to do what a westerner does will get crushed by the legal system and institutions. If a muslim is sued or accused of a crime in the west, they have no chance. In russia its probably better for Muslims. depending where you are. 


aviator_fan said:


> I don’t know any Muslims in Russia: is it the same freedom of worship and expression they get to convey (this is not an argument again).


They have huge rights in russia. again, depending on where. but a native muslim is russia has it better than an average muslim in the west.


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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605575327643623424


if this is true:






Then how did 1200 active army Polish soldiers die in Ukraine already? yea yea...NATO got caught with its hand in the jar, so now Russia wont stop until either NATO, or its dreams in Ukraine are permanently broken..Iran been down since day, and so has China, China has just chosen the "quiet" route to supporting Russia.

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## Horse_Rider

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605282938152779782
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605193213169569792



Easy targets for JAVLINS and other ATM's. The last time I checked the ratio, it was One tank to TEN anti tank munitions. The war is being fought though the drones the ingress routes are only two towards the main fronts. So the Russians once again have high chances of losing their latest equipment. It's hard to target infantry / SF's due to individual humans spread out with anti-tank weapons. It was the same result in the "first draft". Thousands of people just got killed without even setting into the war zone properly.



thetutle said:


> Actually, A lot of Israelis are Jews from Arab countries and look nothing like white people. Back in 1940's they were way too dark to be accepted into western countries due to their racist and apartheid policies, so they had to go to Israel. Among jews there is hierarchy with whitest jews being on top like German jews etc and dark Ethiopian jews being on the bottom. Israel is the dumping ground for the unwanted ones. Its a tough job being an Israeli. Would you rather be an Israeli shooting at protesters or a new York banker?



You clearly don't understand Judaism and how Israel's internals work do you? There are 12 tribes essentially that sort of have a hierarchy within Israel. The German's you referred to, are called Ashkenazi Jews and way back when around 11th century they spread from Germany and France to Eastern / Northern Europe and grew. Their genetics and features didn't change much over the centuries per genetic studies. That's not the case for 100% of the population though.


----------



## Horse_Rider

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> With the exception of THAAD; tanks, apcs, howitzers, and drones of similar kind were already delivered to Ukraine. I think you're the one who is dishonest here.



This has become a war of attrition. The Western estimates are that Ukraine can take back Crimea. That's why there is essentially no "cease fire" offer on the table. After this war, I don't think Russia will be able to attack anyone else conventionally. Th Bear is about to go to sleep and stay warm with it's nukes making it feel "safe" moving forward!

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## 925boy

Ali_Baba said:


> Biden launches investigation into US-made tech in Iranian-built drones
> 
> 
> Despite strict export controls in place to prevent Iran from obtaining such materials, evidence has emerged that Tehran is finding more than enough tech to manufacture the deadly drones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> More sanctions coming to Iran now..


always sanctions...because the US military cant take on Iran today, simple.

Russia enrolled in Iran's "course" on avoiding US sanctions and GROWING your economy still. lol

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## Horse_Rider

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Idiotic and NATO is acting like Wussies.
> 
> NATO should double down and put soldiers on the ground and finish off Putin and balkanize Russia.



After this war, whenever it ends, the Russians will not be in a position to fight anyone else for decades to come. The only real power that will be left, would be their nukes and that will give them the feeling of safety. But this situation here ends Russia's conventional power to majority of the degree.

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## 925boy

Horse_Rider said:


> This has become a war of attrition.


become or perceived by you?


Horse_Rider said:


> The Western estimates are that Ukraine can take back Crimea.


and you believe that? when Ukraine has been losing territory slowly but steadily since Ukraine captures half of Kherson? you better stop listening to cnn and stuff that are lying to you.


Horse_Rider said:


> That's why there is essentially no "cease fire" offer on the table.


false- NATO doesnt want to bring up ceasefire now, because it will make Ukraine look like its given up, also ceasefire is a delay tactic to regroup- Russia is too alert now to allow that.


Horse_Rider said:


> After this war, I don't think Russia will be able to attack anyone else conventionally.


- your perception, which is a hypothetical- Even the top US defense people said this war wont make Russian army collapse so keep waiting for it ok?


Horse_Rider said:


> Th Bear is about to go to sleep and stay warm with it's nukes making it feel "safe" moving forward!


LMAO- US and NATo are the ones getting stretched...just like Taliban and Iraqi insurgents stretched them..this time its a much more professional and equipped force that will stretch NATO...oh sorry...NATO was too scared,so it sent Ukraine to get stretched...hello Ukraine! Shahed 136s loading for your azz!


----------



## Horse_Rider

jhungary said:


> There are no way Russia can attack Polish or Romania border.
> 
> Think about it. If they managed to f'ed up logistic going to Kyiv, what do you think they extended that line for another 200 km westward further out into Romania and Polish border??



There is no way Russia can extend it's supply chain towards another Oblast across Dnipro river, let alone going towards Romania or Poland.



925boy said:


> become or perceived by you?
> 
> and you believe that? when Ukraine has been losing territory slowly but steadily since Ukraine captures half of Kherson? you better stop listening to cnn and stuff that are lying to you.
> 
> false- NATO doesnt want to bring up ceasefire now, because it will make Ukraine look like its given up, also ceasefire is a delay tactic to regroup- Russia is too alert now to allow that.
> 
> - your perception, which is a hypothetical- Even the top US defense people said this war wont make Russian army collapse so keep waiting for it ok?
> 
> LMAO- US and NATo are the ones getting stretched...just like Taliban and Iraqi insurgents stretched them..this time its a much more professional and equipped force that will stretch NATO...oh sorry...NATO was too scared,so it sent Ukraine to get stretched...hello Ukraine! Shahed 136s loading for your azz!



"Talking back" like a 12 year old isn't "military analysis"  . The internet is free for all. Continue to have at it and you are entitled to your opinion.

You responded to me within just a few minutes. People running propaganda to go touch happy do that, which is why there is no real value I gained from your post. It's more like "I feel this way" and military conflicts don't run on "feelings"!

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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> become or perceived by you?
> 
> and you believe that? when Ukraine has been losing territory slowly but steadily since Ukraine captures half of Kherson? you better stop listening to cnn and stuff that are lying to you.
> 
> false- NATO doesnt want to bring up ceasefire now, because it will make Ukraine look like its given up, also ceasefire is a delay tactic to regroup- Russia is too alert now to allow that.
> 
> - your perception, which is a hypothetical- Even the top US defense people said this war wont make Russian army collapse so keep waiting for it ok?
> 
> LMAO- US and NATo are the ones getting stretched...just like Taliban and Iraqi insurgents stretched them..this time its a much more professional and equipped force that will stretch NATO...oh sorry...NATO was too scared,so it sent Ukraine to get stretched...hello Ukraine! Shahed 136s loading for your azz!


The support given is in single digits of defence budget Nato. 

Russia on other hand has to pump its budget to 30%, lost most of their war chest, their gas customers, nearly 9000 pieces of heavy military equipment (and counting) and much of their crack troops. 

Its clear to see who is being “stretched”. 
Except for the dimwitted or delusional.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Kaboom. Those Ukrainian hide-outs are getting demolished. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605578062279720961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605559806236004352
The Zelensky puppet was afraid Russian may shoot down his plane, so he traveled to Poland by a train in the night while in hiding and probably dressed with different costumes so people won't recognize him. And he would capture a military plane from there to Washington D.C. 👇 Life must not be easy for being a puppet. You gotta hide yourself all of the time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605557688473116675

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## 925boy

Horse_Rider said:


> "Talking back" like a 12 year old isn't "military analysis"  . The internet is free for all. Continue to have at it and you are entitled to your opinion.
> 
> You responded to me within just a few minutes. People running propaganda to go touch happy do that, which is why there is no real value I gained from your post. It's more like "I feel this way" and military conflicts don't run on "feelings"!


How did you ramble this much and completely avoid my point? i know why- you dont have any good counters - enjoy Ukrainian soldiers getting slaughtered in Bakhmut- i guess Zelensky visited Bakhmut like he visited Popasna - right before the city falls. what a nice christmas present for Ukraine.



ZeGerman said:


> The support given is in single digits of defence budget Nato.


then why is NATO already low on ammunition? welcome to* Soviet state production*!!!


ZeGerman said:


> Russia on other hand has to pump its budget to 30%,


proof or shut up?


ZeGerman said:


> lost most of their war chest, their gas customers, nearly 9000 pieces of heavy military equipment (and counting) and much of their crack troops.\


and built it back, while destroying more than that of Ukraine - hell, Ukraine is now using PICK UP TRUCKs, thats how much their military vehicles dont exist in reality- but Russian troops stil have APCs, tanks, MLRS, etc- HOW?? after 8500 destroyed? must be a miracle.


ZeGerman said:


> Its clear to see who is being “stretched”.


NATO got stretched in Iraq and Afghanista n- FACT (NATO and white Anglos are very angry these days, because they cant control global south people as much anymore- they're out of resources i guess, like UK).
Russia being stretched in Ukraine- your opinion AKA not a fact.


ZeGerman said:


> Except for the dimwitted or delusional.


thats what NATO has- because it will have to acceppt the loss in Ukraine soon-Russia cant fight al day- NATO never fights all day when it has to fight far away- like in Ukraine- stupid stupid NATO - just loves losing wars that dont look that way initially.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605549256600801280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605547612462989312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605510683667230721

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## Hassan Al-Somal

New military and economic alliances are shaping up. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605512697969262593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605597839567966211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605577687065456642

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## F-22Raptor

New package announced. $1B in immediate aid and $850M in future aid

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605324782957826048


----------



## PakFactor

sammuel said:


> How i new this was coming.
> 
> Tell me how one wrong committed in the past , justifies this wrong committed in the present ?
> 
> If your neighbors murders someone , will you now be justified also to murder someone ? what will you say , every body is doing it nowadays ?
> 
> Is France and US occupying a neighboring state now ? No. So this argument is irrelevant , and just serves to justify evil and perpetuate evil.
> 
> ~



Looking at your two flags, your better off not even trying to retort at me.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> When did US or France annex territory, after the Geneva Conventions made it illegal? Russia s fighting a war of aggression to enlarge its empire.



Installing your own selected despots or taking over the country is the same thing; the difference is how you want to skin the cat.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605610790630744069
Zelensky is in Washington

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605610790630744069
> Zelensky is in Washington



This fucker is just getting on my nerves, just like the Pakistani Prime Minister on his begging tour. Hopefully, an errand missile shoots down this cucks plane.

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## Viet

Putin’s military strategy 2023:

Increasing the number of fighting soldiers to 1.5 million men

All money to military without any restrictions 

Arming nuclear forces with new types of missiles and hypersonic weapons 

More powers to FSB and security apparatus

Putin is like a poker player that is boxed into the corner so he goes all in.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605631369400307712

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## The SC

Very interesting projections!..


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605643420743204864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605640589835440129

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Going around the world for 2000 years and suddenly claiming the Holy Land for yourself. If it was your land, where were you in the past 2000 years? You think you can insult people's intelligence with such nonsense.
> 
> And since when non-Muslim white Europeans, which is what most of Israelis are, settled in the Holy Land and the Shaam before the 20th century?
> 
> You came on the back of the Freemasony empire and you'll go down with it when it is no more. That is a divine promise. You've already gone through 2 divine punishments, and a third one awaits you. Make no mistake about it, the evil that you perpetrated in the Holy Land, in the Levant, and in the rest of the world will have an end.


Meanwhile Somalia is continuously getting divine punishment.
Starvation, Civil War, locusts. Biblical Egypt repeated all over again.
I guess God hates the trolling.

”Development in Somalia has come a long way in recent years. The economy has grown steadily, albeit slowly. New agreements on debt relief have the potential to enable extensive financing of development projects in healthcare as well as education and infrastructure.
Government services have improved and reach more people every year. Constitutional reforms and new power-sharing arrangements are introduced. Following a peaceful transition of power in 2017, the government has committed to holding general elections, which is another milestone on the road to peace and increased prosperity.

Despite these successes, alarm bells started ringing some time ago in the capital, Mogadishu. Since last November, massive downpours and floods have forced more than half a million people to flee - the latest in a series of recurring natural disasters that hit the country every two years, destroying lives and costing society hundreds of millions of dollars.

The heavy rains laid the perfect breeding ground for the biggest locust invasion in 25 years. Famine, which last hit Somalia in 2017 due to drought, suddenly threatened to return to the wings of a billion herbivorous insects.
Features of the local news reporting have now replaced swarms of insects with images of crowded grave sites and men in protective suits intended to protect them against covid-19. This new disease is just the latest disaster in a series of crises stretching back to the civil war of the 1980s.

The alarm bells rang early, but in a way they haven't stopped ringing for over 30 years.”

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## A.P. Richelieu

PakFactor said:


> Looking at your two flags, your better off not even trying to retort at me.
> 
> 
> 
> Installing your own selected despots or taking over the country is the same thing; the difference is how you want to skin the cat.


No, annexing territory and ”installing a despot” is not the same thing.
And the West did not even install any despots in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria or Libya which are the favourite examples when trying to justify Russias War of Agression,

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## nangyale

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Meanwhile Somalia is continuously getting divine punishment.
> Starvation, Civil War, locusts. Biblical Egypt repeated all over again.
> I guess God hates the trolling.
> 
> ”Development in Somalia has come a long way in recent years. The economy has grown steadily, albeit slowly. New agreements on debt relief have the potential to enable extensive financing of development projects in healthcare as well as education and infrastructure.
> Government services have improved and reach more people every year. Constitutional reforms and new power-sharing arrangements are introduced. Following a peaceful transition of power in 2017, the government has committed to holding general elections, which is another milestone on the road to peace and increased prosperity.
> 
> Despite these successes, alarm bells started ringing some time ago in the capital, Mogadishu. Since last November, massive downpours and floods have forced more than half a million people to flee - the latest in a series of recurring natural disasters that hit the country every two years, destroying lives and costing society hundreds of millions of dollars.
> 
> The heavy rains laid the perfect breeding ground for the biggest locust invasion in 25 years. Famine, which last hit Somalia in 2017 due to drought, suddenly threatened to return to the wings of a billion herbivorous insects.
> Features of the local news reporting have now replaced swarms of insects with images of crowded grave sites and men in protective suits intended to protect them against covid-19. This new disease is just the latest disaster in a series of crises stretching back to the civil war of the 1980s.
> 
> The alarm bells rang early, but in a way they haven't stopped ringing for over 30 years.



Why are you discussing Somalia here. Go to the relevant section and start another thread there. This is not the place.
@Deino are you going to negative rate this post as well. Or is it only reserved for non-NATO compatible POVs.

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## Deino

nangyale said:


> Why are you discussing Somalia here. Go to the relevant section and start another thread there. This is not the place.
> @Deino are you going to negative rate this post as well. Or is it only reserved for non-NATO compatible POVs.




No, I only downgrade posts which are offensive insulting and hate-speech … but would you like to join?


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## F-22Raptor




----------



## nangyale

Deino said:


> No, I only downgrade posts which are offensive insulting and hate-speech … but would you like to join?


Previously your biggest moan has been "non-relevant content".
But I guess double standards comes as a part of being a NATO peddler.

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## Mohsin A

Think it's high time Russia step up the game and get the job done sooner rather than later. Hammer Kyiv and the front line with full force and long range bombers. Enough of this BS "Special Operation". The sooner Russian objectives are met the better it would be for the world as a whole. Western interference and arms supply is a red line Russia has been barking about for 20+ years. Jan/Feb a huge push should be made so that the Dnipro River becomes the new international border. The equation is simple for Ukraine. Continue fighting and get decimated or come to the table and figure it out.

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## Viet

Mohsin A said:


> Think it's high time Russia step up the game and get the job done sooner rather than later. Hammer Kyiv and the front line with full force and long range bombers. Enough of this BS "Special Operation". The sooner Russian objectives are met the better it would be for the world as a whole. Western interference and arms supply is a red line Russia has been barking about for 20+ years. Jan/Feb a huge push should be made so that the Dnipro River becomes the new international border. The equation is simple for Ukraine. Continue fighting and get decimated or come to the table and figure it out.


Putin is naked. There is nothing more he can do accept increase of terror bombings. Once Ukraine gets Patriots then Putin terror comes to the end.
The other option is he can send more soldiers into death march. Shoigu hints there are additional 830,000 men that can be called in. Do you see videos where russian soldiers looted shoes, clothing from their dead comrades? Because they need them? Putin needs to close all border crossings. Otherwise all men will run away to Georgia, Kasachstan, Turkey or China.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Meanwhile Somalia is continuously getting divine punishment.
> Starvation, Civil War, locusts. Biblical Egypt repeated all over again.
> I guess God hates the trolling.
> 
> ”Development in Somalia has come a long way in recent years. The economy has grown steadily, albeit slowly. New agreements on debt relief have the potential to enable extensive financing of development projects in healthcare as well as education and infrastructure.
> Government services have improved and reach more people every year. Constitutional reforms and new power-sharing arrangements are introduced. Following a peaceful transition of power in 2017, the government has committed to holding general elections, which is another milestone on the road to peace and increased prosperity.
> 
> Despite these successes, alarm bells started ringing some time ago in the capital, Mogadishu. Since last November, massive downpours and floods have forced more than half a million people to flee - the latest in a series of recurring natural disasters that hit the country every two years, destroying lives and costing society hundreds of millions of dollars.
> 
> The heavy rains laid the perfect breeding ground for the biggest locust invasion in 25 years. Famine, which last hit Somalia in 2017 due to drought, suddenly threatened to return to the wings of a billion herbivorous insects.
> Features of the local news reporting have now replaced swarms of insects with images of crowded grave sites and men in protective suits intended to protect them against covid-19. This new disease is just the latest disaster in a series of crises stretching back to the civil war of the 1980s.
> 
> The alarm bells rang early, but in a way they haven't stopped ringing for over 30 years.”




Bish, the only problems Somalia faces is small areas in the South where the war is going between the govt and the terrorist group Al-Shabaab, and the govt is actually making a progress in defeating the terrorists. Besides, the Somali president recently refuted most of the Western NGO's claims.

That being said, that is never comparable to some folks going around the world as homeless people for 2000 years - that is 2000 years - and then suddenly manufacturing some bogus claim in their bible that God has given them a land that they never settled for 2000 years. 2000 years? How many empires gone from the world in the past 2000 years: The Roman empire, the Incas & Aztec Empire, the Mongols empire, the Byzantine empire, and many others. 

That should tell you their whole biblical claim is bullshit made up by them. These f\uckers were homeless for 2000 years, and the only places they were welcomed and allowed to stay were the Arab/Muslim world. Yet these f\ockers have this outlandish claim the Levant belongs to them. So listen to me the Jew and queer boy, your stay in the Holy Land is temporary. You'll never go beyond the West side of the Jordan river.



F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 907164





A meeting between the puppet (Zelensky) and the puppeteer (Biden).

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605683305113952269

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605683926978240515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605684426800627712

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## PakFactor

A.P. Richelieu said:


> No, annexing territory and ”installing a despot” is not the same thing.
> *And the West did not even install any despots in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria or Libya which are the favourite examples when trying to justify Russias War of Agression,*



Whatever joint you are smoking needs to be outright banned.

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## Ali_Baba

Full press conference if you missed it.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

PakFactor said:


> Whatever joint you are smoking needs to be outright banned.


So that is the only answer you have when it is explained why Russias War of Agression is quite different from the action in Libya based on a UNSC resolution.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605567697680334849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605569282804424704

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## 925boy

Mohsin A said:


> Think it's high time Russia step up the game and get the job done sooner rather than later. Hammer Kyiv and the front line with full force and long range bombers. Enough of this BS "Special Operation". The sooner Russian objectives are met the better it would be for the world as a whole. Western interference and arms supply is a red line Russia has been barking about for 20+ years. Jan/Feb a huge push should be made so that the Dnipro River becomes the new international border. The equation is simple for Ukraine. Continue fighting and get decimated or come to the table and figure it out.


I hear you bro, but Russia is on it...slow...and steadily. t-90s are still on deck, Iskanders are being produced in larger numbers.....SHAHED 136s still decimating Ukrainian infrastructure...mobilization still occuring on large scale, "Soviet state production" activated....maveuvers and buildup in Belarus...i'm not even saying that Russia will win, i just think they can take alot and are in their best state today...while US and NATO...are at their weakest.....Russia can keep fighting,because its fighting next door, its neighbor...US must transport ALOT of things from US to EU, to get it to UKraine...but for how long? damn, Ukrainians must have low national self esteem, to die for a dream sold by NATO but the highest price for it is paid by Ukraine...for a gamble? Russia has to now beat the brakes off this errant Ukrainian nation that shouldnt be a sovereign state, because it cant think and act for itself, in the right way and context.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605731238114783232

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Are negotiations going on behind the scene? Or will there a new escalation in the war? These different meetings definitely entail something happening behind the scene.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605566433592627200

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604818470385827841

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605740472550494209

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604818470385827841


Just to be clear to everyone; Hassan complains about Ukrainians raping civilians.

Scott Ritter is a convicted rapist.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605741104157990912

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## Hassan Al-Somal

That Guy said:


> Just to be clear to everyone; Hassan complains about Ukrainians raping civilians.
> 
> Scott Ritter is a convicted rapist.



The charge was a plant and never proven. It was a hit piece that was posted in BBC that doesn't have any court document packing it up. So fools like you can't challenge his analysis, so you resorted to character assassination. I see many others like you with that fake charge in Twitter, but there is no proof with that nonsense.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605741104157990912



So typical of the Zionated States of America. AIPAC called all of the supposedly 'lawmakers' into that chamber and demanded that they give the Zelensky puppet consistent standing ovation, much the same way they gave to BitchJamin Satanyahu. Even senile Biden didn't get as much ovation as Zelensky puppet and Satanyahu got it from that puppet Congress.

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## thetutle

Its like Stalin giving a speech. they wont stop clapping.

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The charge was a plant and never proven. It was a hit piece that was posted in BBC that doesn't have any court document packing it up. So fools like you can't challenge his analysis, so you resorted to character assassination. I see many others like you with that fake charge in Twitter, but there is no proof with that nonsense.


He was literally convicted, so it was very much proven in court in front of everyone.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy, which is a good way to judge if a person is a dishonest hack or not.

It's less a criticism of Scott Ritter, and more a criticism of you.

The fact that you're now blatantly lying in this comment proves my point.


----------



## jhungary

That Guy said:


> He was literally convicted, so it was very much proven in court in front of everyone.
> 
> I'm pointing out the hypocrisy, which is a good way to judge if a person is a dishonest hack or not.
> 
> It's less a criticism of Scott Ritter, and more a criticism of you.
> 
> The fact that you're now blatantly lying in this comment proves my point.


I am pretty sure they had released the chat room and the video of him molesting himself over the internet on a supposed 15-year-old girl public.


----------



## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605741104157990912


No we won't , don't see why US tax payer's money should go to these comedians who wanna play Nazi while the homeless crisis grows in US and poverty is endemic.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That should tell you their whole biblical claim is bullshit made up by them.



Do consult your Quran :

_" O my people_! _Enter_ the _holy land_ which _Allah has ordained_ for _you_, and _you_ don't _turn on_ your _backs_, then _you_ will _turn_ as _losers _.”.

surah Maidah aya 21

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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> Do consult your Quran :
> 
> _" O my people_! _Enter_ the _holy land_ which _Allah has ordained_ for _you_, and _you_ don't _turn on_ your _backs_, then _you_ will _turn_ as _losers _.”.
> 
> surah Maidah aya 21


A very cunning selective quote, lol.

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## Beny Karachun

925boy said:


> I hear you bro, but Russia is on it...slow...and steadily. t-90s are still on deck, Iskanders are being produced in larger numbers.....SHAHED 136s still decimating Ukrainian infrastructure...mobilization still occuring on large scale, "Soviet state production" activated....maveuvers and buildup in Belarus...i'm not even saying that Russia will win, i just think they can take alot and are in their best state today...while US and NATO...are at their weakest.....Russia can keep fighting,because its fighting next door, its neighbor...US must transport ALOT of things from US to EU, to get it to UKraine...but for how long? damn, Ukrainians must have low national self esteem, to die for a dream sold by NATO but the highest price for it is paid by Ukraine...for a gamble? Russia has to now beat the brakes off this errant Ukrainian nation that shouldnt be a sovereign state, because it cant think and act for itself, in the right way and context.


Lol retard

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> No we won't , don't see why US tax payer's money should go to these comedians who wanna play Nazi while the homeless crisis grows in US and poverty is endemic.


There were this comment on this website (not going to name where it come from, but know that this does not come from me)

Someone asked "How Ukraine is going to pay back the billions of dollars we sent to them to fight Russia"

On user reply "The question should be, how much more we can do to repay the Ukrainian for doing this for us"

Make no mistake, if we didn't support this war, and Ukraine faltered. Do you really honestly think Russia would just stopped there?? And do you know what kind of consequence it will be for Europe and US if this war goes out of hand?? You are talking about Refugee Crisis, more Military Deployment to Eastern NATO member, more war funding will be put toward future aggression, not just come from Russia, but anywhere in the world. You are talking about trillions of dollars there in multi-year expense. So, 40 billion to prevent all these from happening, because it was stopped right outside the edge of Europe. 

Doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong or name calling, I can call you Nazi and you can call me too, that's didn't do anything. But do you honestly believe if Russia triumph over Ukraine, Putin would just stop there?? Track record suggested no.

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## Beny Karachun

khansaheeb said:


> A very cunning selective quote, lol.


So you defy the words of Allah?

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## khansaheeb

Beny Karachun said:


> So you defy the words of Allah?


You need to put things in context and not make selective quotes to fit your agenda.

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## vi-va

925boy said:


> how is Russia ruined? America spent 20+ years in Afghanistan, lost the war, and you didnt say they were ruined, so please help me understand how Russia is factually "ruined".


U.S. wasted trillions in Afghanistan. True. But U.S. can print dollars, U.S. can afford the war as long as the rest of the world still accept dollars.

Russia should prepare the war more seriously. 

Russia ignored the military revolution in UAV field. 
Russia kept producing Su-34, which is a waste of resource. 
Russia's artillery system is outdated, anti artillery system is outdated as well.

Russia took advantage of China-U.S. rivalry, trying to expand Russia empire and conquer Ukraine, but failed. This is called opportunism.

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## PakFactor

Beny Karachun said:


> So you defy the words of Allah?



I wish you had not quoted that verse because the rest of the verses following it show how stupid your race was after the same Lord freed you; you ended up questioning him and then wandering the desert for 40 years like retarded camels. Lol. Here let me help:

(5:21) My people! Enter the holy land which Allah has ordained for you;43 and do not turn back for then you will turn about losers.44

(5:22) They answered: 'Moses, therein live a ferocious people: we will not enter unless they depart from it; but if they do depart from it then we will surely enter it.'

(5:23) Two from among these who were frightened but upon whom Allah had bes-towed His favour45 said: 'Enter upon them through the gate - for if you do enter - you will be the victors. And put your trust in Allah if indeed you are men of faith.'

(5:24) Nevertheless they said: 'O Moses! Never shall we enter it as long as they are there. Go forth, then, you and your Lord, and fight, both of you. As for us, we will sit here.'

(5:25) Thereupon Moses said: 'My Lord! I have control over none but my own self and my brother; so distinguish between us and the transgressing people.'

(5:26) Allah said: 'This land will now be forbidden to them for forty years and they will remain wandering about on the earth.46 Do not grieve over the condition of these transgressing people.47

@khansaheeb

Lord and I will sit down over tea in the afterlife and have a serious discussion. You've sent 120,000 prophets and got them all killed like the Russian soldiers in Ukraine, even at one point dragging Moses back to the Tribes of Israel after he made his escape. Favored this retarded nation for generations over and over and got the same results; at some point, one kind of needed to question the whole plan.

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> There were this comment on this website (not going to name where it come from, but know that this does not come from me)
> 
> Someone asked "How Ukraine is going to pay back the billions of dollars we sent to them to fight Russia"
> 
> On user reply "The question should be, how much more we can do to repay the Ukrainian for doing this for us"
> 
> Make no mistake, if we didn't support this war, and Ukraine faltered. Do you really honestly think Russia would just stopped there?? And do you know what kind of consequence it will be for Europe and US if this war goes out of hand?? You are talking about Refugee Crisis, more Military Deployment to Eastern NATO member, more war funding will be put toward future aggression, not just come from Russia, but anywhere in the world. You are talking about trillions of dollars there in multi-year expense. So, 40 billion to prevent all these from happening, because it was stopped right outside the edge of Europe.
> 
> Doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong or name calling, I can call you Nazi and you can call me too, that's didn't do anything. But do you honestly believe if Russia triumph over Ukraine, Putin would just stop there?? Track record suggested no.


""The question should be, how much more we can do to repay the Ukrainian for doing this for us"-

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## Beny Karachun

khansaheeb said:


> You need to put things in context and not make selective quotes to fit your agenda.


Yeah that's your go to excuse whenever something Allah says doesn't fit your narrative



PakFactor said:


> I wish you had not quoted that verse because the rest of the verses following it show how stupid your race was after the same Lord freed you; you ended up questioning him and then wandering the desert for 40 years like retarded camels. Lol. Here let me help:
> 
> (5:21) My people! Enter the holy land which Allah has ordained for you;43 and do not turn back for then you will turn about losers.44
> 
> (5:22) They answered: 'Moses, therein live a ferocious people: we will not enter unless they depart from it; but if they do depart from it then we will surely enter it.'
> 
> (5:23) Two from among these who were frightened but upon whom Allah had bes-towed His favour45 said: 'Enter upon them through the gate - for if you do enter - you will be the victors. And put your trust in Allah if indeed you are men of faith.'
> 
> (5:24) Nevertheless they said: 'O Moses! Never shall we enter it as long as they are there. Go forth, then, you and your Lord, and fight, both of you. As for us, we will sit here.'
> 
> (5:25) Thereupon Moses said: 'My Lord! I have control over none but my own self and my brother; so distinguish between us and the transgressing people.'
> 
> (5:26) Allah said: 'This land will now be forbidden to them for forty years and they will remain wandering about on the earth.46 Do not grieve over the condition of these transgressing people.47
> 
> @khansaheeb
> 
> Lord and I will sit down over tea in the afterlife and have a serious discussion. You've sent 120,000 prophets and got them all killed like the Russian soldiers in Ukraine, even at one point dragging Moses back to the Tribes of Israel after he made his escape. Favored this retarded nation for generations over and over and got the same results; at some point, one kind of needed to question the whole plan.


Lol, dude just called Moses, a prophet in Islam, a retarded camel

We know well about the 40 years in the desert story, I don't know what's your point.

Bani Israel sinned and then paid for their sins.


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## kingQamaR

Mohsin A said:


> Think it's high time Russia step up the game and get the job done sooner rather than later. Hammer Kyiv and the front line with full force and long range bombers. Enough of this BS "Special Operation". The sooner Russian objectives are met the better it would be for the world as a whole. Western interference and arms supply is a red line Russia has been barking about for 20+ years. Jan/Feb a huge push should be made so that the Dnipro River becomes the new international border. The equation is simple for Ukraine. Continue fighting and get decimated or come to the table and figure it out.




Putin wasn't fighting Ukraine he was fighting the world, through Ukraine. The West provided huge sums of money and arms. Ukraine would have lost the war in the first month had they not had support. Best to understand the full picture.

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## TopGun786

sammuel said:


> Do consult your Quran :
> 
> _" O my people_! _Enter_ the _holy land_ which _Allah has ordained_ for _you_, and _you_ don't _turn on_ your _backs_, then _you_ will _turn_ as _losers _.”.
> 
> surah Maidah aya 21


That's just a line from the whole surah. Why not go into context and why not read full surah. Why not see the background and why not see what Allah said after that?

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## TopGun786

Beny Karachun said:


> Yeah that's your go to excuse whenever something Allah says doesn't fit your narrative
> 
> 
> Lol, dude just called Moses, a prophet in Islam, a retarded camel
> 
> We know well about the 40 years in the desert story, I don't know what's your point.
> 
> Bani Israel sinned and then paid for their sins.


Yes and their lot is sinning again and will be punished again. This time fully eradicated. And I will say again like I said many times before...... you know it, right ????  
White settlers came to Palestine begging for help, then with the help of the West and USA started grabbing lands of natives, killing them mercilessly (a full-scale genocide that still goes on), and involved in countless terror activities, not only against Muslims but native Christians also.
And it does not stop even after more than 7 decades... they still grabbing the last remaining lands and killing Palestinian children and youth mercilessly, blocking their trade routes and access to their homes, and every now and then bombing civilian areas.
But, it was predicted some 1400 years ago in Ahadees and is 100% going the same. It is because the majority of Muslims forgot their teachings and lost their power.
Butttttt.... again what we know what will come next according to the predictions in Ahadees..... The zios will completely be eradicated, though at expense of a lot of mankind's (especially Muslim) blood.

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## sammuel

TopGun786 said:


> That's just a line from the whole surah. Why not go into context and why not read full surah. Why not see the background and why not see what Allah said after that?



Excuses. Nowhere in the Quran is this promise revoked.

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## TopGun786

sammuel said:


> Excuses. Nowhere in the Quran is this promise revoked.


keep yourself delusional.
Do you know what is the best part of this story?
That is you people know everything. About your origins, your criminal activities throughout thousands of years, and consequences and punishments from Allah.
You even know how will be your end, but still, Iblees has so much power over you that you cannot help even yourself.
In the end, you will directly wage war on Allah by bringing forward your commander, Dajjal, and result you know better.
Denying facts when you clearly know those is a quality only associated with you people. It is in your blood.

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## kingQamaR

TopGun786 said:


> keep yourself delusional.
> Do you know what is the best part of this story?
> That is you people know everything. About your origins, your criminal activities throughout thousands of years, and consequences and punishments from Allah.
> You even know how will be your end, but still, Iblees has so much power over you that you cannot help even yourself.
> In the end, you will directly wage war on Allah by bringing forward your commander, Dajjal, and result you know better.
> Denying facts when you clearly know those is a quality only associated with you people. It is in your blood.



I wouldn’t bother wasting your time on these 2 tools. No different to Indians rabble , 

On these 2 Non muslims Non muslims think negatively about Muslims because they are gullible and believe what they see. If only they knew that intellect is a blessing and not just something to waste, Allah guides who he wants , leave ignorant people like them alone to their ills


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## TopGun786

kingQamaR said:


> I wouldn’t bother wasting your time on these 2 tools. No different to Indians rabble ,
> 
> On these 2 Non muslims Non muslims think negatively about Muslims because they are gullible and believe what they see. If only they knew that intellect is a blessing and not just something to waste, Allah guides who he wants , leave ignorant people like them alone to their ills


Agreed. No, mostly I do not give them any importance as they don't deserve it either. But When they try to give a lecture on ethics and murders and Russian genocide bla bla bla then naturally something comes to mind and show them the mirror.
I am personally neutral in this war between Russia and Ukraine + the Allies.

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## sammuel

TopGun786 said:


> Denying facts when you clearly know those is a quality only associated with you people. It is in your blood.



ohhh , a racist as well.


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## TopGun786

sammuel said:


> ohhh a racist as well.


Trying to hide behind my words?
Now you will call me anti-semitic  
And yet there are ''chosen people'' who think that they are superior to the whole of mankind and it's their right to steal any land, steal any home and kill any person that does not belong to them.

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## Viet

In the speech before military commanders Putin brags Russia army has “all everything”, he means in contrast to Ukraine, and demands the army to achieve the goals. Russia military will get everything every money it needs.

Putin endgame is if the war is lost he will take down Russia with him.









Kritische Phase im Ukraine-Krieg – Putin schickt Soldaten, Biden „Patriots“


Russland will seine Armee um 350.000 Mann auf 1,5 Millionen Soldaten aufstocken. Die USA wollen der Ukraine „Patriot"-Systeme liefern – und so Russlands Raketenterror konterkarieren.




app.handelsblatt.com


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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> ""The question should be, how much more we can do to repay the Ukrainian for doing this for us"-


Well, 40 billions to stop this. That's a bargain. As if that 40 billion mean anything in the US, I for one feel good about fucking Russian with my tax dollar, like they said, if you don't like it, you can always move.

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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The early offensive didn't have enough troops. The upcoming one will be executed professionally. The Bakhmut meat grinder is a preview of what is about to come. This one will have enough forces, enough weapons, and will be led according to what Russian military leaders hope to achieve without much interference from the Kremlin.



Your brain might be too geriatric to realize but with this phenomenally deep analysis you insulted Russia badly.

Under normal state of affairs, such a fatal negligence or abuse of duty/authority would be a quick court marshall of the top leadership.


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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> Well, 40 billions to stop this. That's a bargain. As if that 40 billion mean anything in the US, I for one feel good about fucking Russian with my tax dollar, like they said, if you don't like it, you can always move.



Absolutely agree, this war is a bargain of the century for the Americans- it is costing peanuts to give it to the Russians. The Americans will pay for as long as Ukrainian soldiers want to fight and until they can evict the Russians.

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## Corax

sammuel said:


> I will just leave that as is , to let people figure out for themselves what you are all about.



Looking at you Jews and Arabs fighting over land is rather like looking at two fleas arguing over who owns the same dog they're on. The first humans to inhabit that land were neither Jews nor Muslims, in fact, they probably had no religion and were atheists (religion is a relatively modern social construct). But of course you believe "god" gave you that land, of all the places in the world, why did he give you a worthless piece of land? Why not some place rich in natural resources? The best way to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict would be to equalise the playing field - give the Palestinians nukes, they can then annihilate each other - no more Israel nor Palestine, problem solved.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605859689673199617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605862029390217217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605864607653904384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605865202943021056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605866103598505984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605866530893271042

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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> A meeting between the puppet (Zelensky) and the puppeteer (Biden).



Your rhetoric on this thread invokes the cold calculation of an ISIS recruit. You well know that no political process is perfect, and Pres. Zelensky is not less legitimate than, say the Mexican or Turkish leader. A legitimate leader cannot be called a puppet. Especially one who has proven to be fairly fearless and dedicated.

I do not know why you are so pro-Putin, even more than many Russians themselves. You demonstrate the zeal of mujahedeen when they were rightly fighting against the Soviets. But, you are on the extreme side, very much like those cleaned rightly up by Putin in the 2000s in the Russian Caucasus.

You are so anti-Ukraine, as if it is personal. If you are bitter about the US wars, keep in mind, Ukraine was among the countries having popular protests against the war in Iraq. More people participated than in China and Russia. 


Quote from Wikipedia:

The largest protests took place in Europe. The one in Rome involved around three million people, and is listed in the 2004 Guinness Book of World Records as the largest anti-war rally in history. Madrid hosted the second largest rally with more than 1.5 million people protesting the invasion of Iraq; Mainland China was the only major region not to see any protests on that day, but small demonstrations, attended mainly by foreign students, were seen later.[3]

There was also a demonstration in Ukraine of around 2,000 people (USA Today estimate) joined a "Rock against the war" rally in Kyiv's central square.[18]

In Russia, which had several demonstrations, the largest occurred in Moscow, with 400 people (WSWS estimate) in attendance.[19]









15 February 2003 anti-war protests - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





So, no, this is not your just war, if you are looking for one. Russia is not your typical mujahedeen-loving country. Putin is not your typical soon-to-be-martyred Malcolm X.

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## Hack-Hook

That Guy said:


> Scott Ritter is a convicted rapist.


actually no raping happened , it was an sting operation , he was on a forum , he did some sexual act over computer while the one on other side (FBI Operative) claimed she was 15 .
usually definition of rape is a little different



jhungary said:


> I am pretty sure they had released the chat room and the video of him molesting himself over the internet on a supposed 15-year-old girl public.


he is sexual offender not rapist , do you guys consider all sexual offenders as rapists



Beny Karachun said:


> Yeah that's your go to excuse whenever something Allah says doesn't fit your narrative
> 
> 
> Lol, dude just called Moses, a prophet in Islam, a retarded camel
> 
> We know well about the 40 years in the desert story, I don't know what's your point.
> 
> Bani Israel sinned and then paid for their sins.


wasn't the punishments wandering around the earth even after those 40 years ?

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> actually no raping happened , it was an sting operation , he was on a forum , he did some sexual act over computer while the one on other side (FBI Operative) claimed she was 15 .
> usually definition of rape is a little different
> 
> 
> he is sexual offender not rapist , do you guys consider all sexual offenders as rapists
> 
> 
> wasn't the punishments wandering around the earth even after those 40 years ?


I don't think I said anything about rape. I said his entire chat history and his video of molesting HIMSELF in front of the allegedly 15 years old is public.

You may need to recheck what I wrote again.

On the other hand, the legal term of Statutory Rape defined as having sexual activities with minor. sexual activities may or may not require actual penetration, it depends on jurisdiction.


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## BHAN85

sammuel said:


> I will add that some here have a short memory.
> 
> A year ago Russians where approaching Kiev , I doubt many thought Ukraine had a chance to hold more than a week.
> 
> Yet Zelenskyy stayed in Kiev encouraged his people , that by that time were preparing Molotov cocktails to defend their city.,
> 
> He stayed on and did every thing expected from a leader , though it was clear he was number 1 on the Russian wanted list.
> 
> An Honest man will say kudus to that.
> 
> ~


Yes, there are men more coward than Zelensky.

But there are men more brave than Zelensky too.

I dont like him. 

This war can be avoided. But it sustainted because Ukraine elite loves more dollars than his own people. That is the base of problem, and that is the reason because Zelensky dont fight like common Ukrainan soldiers: classism, privilege and dollars.


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## Ali_Baba

Putin's only aircraft carrier bursts into flames


The Cold War historic ship caught fire in a mysterious blaze in the northwest of Russia.




www.express.co.uk





>> oh dear me  ....

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## BHAN85

jhungary said:


> Again, what's one more gun can do to a war?
> 
> He is THE LEADER of the nation, and his job is to Rally his own country and rally outside support, and by all account, he is doing a very good job at that. It's his job to know his own troop and deploy them with the help with the general, you won't see a general holding a gun and fight like any other soldier, because it is really extremely stupid to have done that, apart from if you are Russian of course, because this happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrei Sukhovetsky - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Frolov (general) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kanamat Botashev - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roman Kutuzov (general) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You expect the head of nation go in and fight it out? To be fair, was Putin even ever close to the frontline so this can happen??
> 
> We don't live in the medieval time anymore; we don't have King Arthur leading the troop in front or Alexander the Great charging with Cavalry with his men. Now it's more important for these people to do what they need to do behind the scene because losing a person in command level is detrimental to any army in war. Russia lost 4 General, confirm, 11 if we go by the rumor.


One simple law: Do it mandatory to every dumbshit leader fight in every stupid war, and they will do their best to avoid wars, instead encourage it as cowards to receive fresh American dollars.


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## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> *This war can be avoided*. But it sustainted because Ukraine elite loves more dollars than his own people. That is the base of problem, and that is the reason because Zelensky dont fight like common Ukrainan soldiers: classism, privilege and dollars.


Just out of curiousity, how do you think this war can be avoided?

You think if Zelenskyy said he will never join NATO and Russia will simply let Ukraine alone?? 

The problem as I mentioned many times, is never about NATO, Russia already is surrounded by 3 sides by NATO, and the NATO border with Estonia and Latvia is as close if not closer from Kharkiv to Moscow. And Putin know damn well had he invaded, this is going to upset the balance on Nordic country and have them joining NATO (Which they do) and it would be foolish for Putin not to know or don't think Finland and Sweden will went to NATO if he invades Ukraine. So, by invading, *HE KNOWS*, it is just going to expand NATO border. 

So, what exactly you think either side should do to avoid getting into war??

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## BHAN85

jhungary said:


> Just out of curiousity, how do you think this war can be avoided?
> 
> You think if Zelenskyy said he will never join NATO and Russia will simply let Ukraine alone??
> 
> The problem as I mentioned many times, is never about NATO, Russia already is surrounded by 3 sides by NATO, and the NATO border with Estonia and Latvia is as close if not closer from Kharkiv to Moscow. And Putin know damn well had he invaded, this is going to upset the balance on Nordic country and have them joining NATO (Which they do) and it would be foolish for Putin not to know or don't think Finland and Sweden will went to NATO if he invades Ukraine. So, by invading, *HE KNOWS*, it is just going to expand NATO border.
> 
> So, what exactly you think either side should do to avoid getting into war??


Common people who defend leaders hidden in bunkers as they and their families die for foreign interests doesnt respect themselves.


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## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> One simple law: Do it mandatory to every dumbshit leader fight in every stupid war, and they will do their best to avoid wars, instead encourage it as cowards to receive fresh American dollars.


Then again, you need to have Putin get closer to the frontline to have it fight it out. You can't fight it out with the furthest Putin went is just over the bridge in Crimea.


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## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> Common people who defend leaders hidden in bunkers as they and their families die for foreign interests doesnt respect themselves.


Well, that's what Putin is doing, while Zelenskyy is out and about in the active Warzone.....

Comparing this







Zelenskyy in Kyiv during the war






Zelenskyy in Izyum after being liberated






Zelenskyy in Kherson after it has been liberated






Zelenskyy in Bucha after Russian retreat from Kyiv






Zelenskyy in Kharkiv after Ukrainian pushes Russian out of Kharkiv






Zelenskyy in Bakhmut while the war is raging.

to






Putin in his bunker after withdraw from Kyiv in April






Putin in his bunker after Russian Withdraw from Kharkiv in May






Putin in his bunker after the remaining Russian withdraw from Kharkiv entirely in September






Putin in his bunker after Kerch Bridge attacked in October






Putin in his bunker after Russian withdraw from Kherson

*Also, how is Ukrainian defending UKRAINE a "Foreign Interest"??*

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## Hassan Al-Somal

What is Biden doing? Giving a massage to Zelensky puppet? 👇 Is this a Freemason ritual? Sick!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605925782219530240

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605921546207469568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605917471696949248


Spoiler: Ukrainians abandoned their dead bodies on the field between Andriivka and Klishchiivka in the Bakhmut direction





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605915795854352384

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## Viet

Russia only aircraft carrier on fire

What happens?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605847130681118722

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Russia only aircraft carrier on fire
> 
> What happens?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605847130681118722
> View attachment 907254


I guess you must say *again*, that joke of a carrier can't go anywhere without a tug. They probably taught it already won't produce enough smoke and wanted to fix that promlem


----------



## thetutle

Dmitry Rogozin was wounded in a targeted strike on Donetsk by a 155mm shell. This is a close ally to Putin and a leader of a nationalist party in russia. A very important figure in Moscow.

In the 1990's he went to fight with the serbs in their genocidal campaign against their neighbours. He probably didnt stay fighting for long, but its the thought that counts.

Looks like he made some enemies in Ukraine and they dont seem to like him very much. Hence the 155mm Christmas present.









Russia-Ukraine war: Top official Rogozin wounded in Ukrainian shelling


Ex-deputy PM Dmitry Rogozin was hurt in an attack on a hotel in Russian-occupied Donetsk.



www.bbc.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> I guess you must say *again*, that joke of a carrier can't go anywhere without a tug. They probably taught it already won't produce enough smoke and wanted to fix that promlem


Russia spends how much money on military? Is it the third largest? Putin wants to pour more money into the military. No limits. And that’s what it gets? That’s too little. If not nukes Russia military is a joke nobody can take seriously. Corruption, incompetence, yes-sayers are the biggest enemy of any military.


----------



## BHAN85

jhungary said:


> Well, that's what Putin is doing, while Zelenskyy is out and about in the active Warzone.....
> 
> Comparing this
> 
> View attachment 907233
> 
> 
> Zelenskyy in Kyiv during the war
> 
> View attachment 907234
> 
> 
> Zelenskyy in Izyum after being liberated
> 
> View attachment 907235
> 
> 
> Zelenskyy in Kherson after it has been liberated
> 
> View attachment 907236
> 
> 
> Zelenskyy in Bucha after Russian retreat from Kyiv
> 
> View attachment 907237
> 
> 
> Zelenskyy in Kharkiv after Ukrainian pushes Russian out of Kharkiv
> 
> View attachment 907238
> 
> 
> Zelenskyy in Bakhmut while the war is raging.
> 
> to
> 
> View attachment 907240
> 
> 
> Putin in his bunker after withdraw from Kyiv in April
> 
> View attachment 907240
> 
> 
> Putin in his bunker after Russian Withdraw from Kharkiv in May
> 
> View attachment 907240
> 
> 
> Putin in his bunker after the remaining Russian withdraw from Kharkiv entirely in September
> 
> View attachment 907240
> 
> 
> Putin in his bunker after Kerch Bridge attacked in October
> 
> View attachment 907240
> 
> 
> Putin in his bunker after Russian withdraw from Kherson
> 
> *Also, how is Ukrainian defending UKRAINE a "Foreign Interest"??*


It's ok, Zelensky is a better leader than Putin, or at least, more brave.

But if you die in the war, it doesnt matter to you. That war should never have happened.

It happens because Ukraine elite receive fresh American dollars.

Common people should not give a fck if their gov is under Moscow or Washington rule, they will get the same salary in the same jobs, and even if they are poorer under Moscow rule, it's better to be poor and alive, than rich and dead.

Brainwashed slaves seems to dont understand that money is not useful when you die.

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## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> It's ok, Zelensky is a better leader than Putin, or at least, more brave.
> 
> But if you die in the war, it doesnt matter to you. That war should never have happened.
> 
> It happens because Ukraine elite receive fresh American dollars.
> 
> Common people should not give a fck if their gov is under Moscow or Washington rule, they will get the same salary in the same jobs, and even if they are poorer under Moscow rule, it's better to be poor and alive, than rich and dead.
> 
> Brainwashed slaves seems to dont understand that money is not useful when you die.


Well, if you really think that way then I am sorry for your fellow countrymen for having you in the same country.

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## MrHyperForEver

*Russo Ukraine Conflict : Bakhmut Update:-*

_Bakhmut is located in Ukraine Eastern Donbass Region and is a hotly contested area in the war._

According to Russians, their superior firepower (reportedly 4 times more in Bakhmut) plays an important part in suppressing Ukrainians and they are unable to launch counterattacks although a counter attack was launched by Ukraine earlier this week it only helped gaining 500m of land. Russian Army blasts Ukrainians all day long in this Wagner's elite assult troops regularly attack they hit hard, if Ukrainians are pushed back they take control, if they stay intact Wagner troops run : this is Russian tactic and its working so far although slow but better than much costy all out assaults.

Now the front is Bakhmut itself, Russians are trying to envelop it from South and North although not achieving it yet but if they get it even slowly Ukrainian troops are in danger as the main supply route will be cut off from South. 

Just 15 minutes ago Ukrainian Ministry of Defense said regarding Bakhmut:- "In the direction of Bakhmut, the enemy shelled Verkhnokamianske, Bilogorivka, Bakhmut, Klishchiivka, Andriivka, Oleksandro-Shultyne, Kurdyumivka, Ozaryanivka, and New York of the Donetsk region." 

This gives us an idea about intensive Russian shelling. Russians have taken the Eastern Industrial area of Bakhmut and the fight is now being actively fought in Residential areas. 

Following map will give you an idea:-

_




_

Although this map is 7 days old but it can be termed accurate as no significant progress is made till then.

I think Ukrainians will ultimately retreat but they would wait till its not the worst situation and defeat is inevitable.

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## That Guy

Hack-Hook said:


> actually no raping happened , it was an sting operation , he was on a forum , he did some sexual act over computer while the one on other side (FBI Operative) claimed she was 15 .
> usually definition of rape is a little different
> 
> 
> he is sexual offender not rapist , do you guys consider all sexual offenders as rapists
> 
> 
> wasn't the punishments wandering around the earth even after those 40 years ?


Sting or not, he yanked it to what he thought was a 15 year old. That still a sex crime.

That distinction doesn't really help.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605921546207469568
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605917471696949248
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ukrainians abandoned their dead bodies on the field between Andriivka and Klishchiivka in the Bakhmut direction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605915795854352384





Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605972463967404033


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605568838744936448


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605972463967404033


----------



## BHAN85

jhungary said:


> Well, if you really think that way then I am sorry for your fellow countrymen for having you in the same country.



You talk like medieval age people.

Most of states of this world are not sovereign and people dont give a fck.

And Ukraine can never be sovereign, they will be Russian or American puppets, but puppets.

Only a complete idiot will suicide himself in a stupid war to give foreign money to his ruling elite.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605921546207469568
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605917471696949248
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ukrainians abandoned their dead bodies on the field between Andriivka and Klishchiivka in the Bakhmut direction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605915795854352384





Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605983992045453312


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

S10 said:


> Weapons from NATO
> Training from NATO
> Advisers from NATO
> Funding from NATO
> Intelligence from NATO
> 
> Sure, it's not a proxy war at all. NATO is totally not involved. As far as "vaporizing Russian military", you'd perish in the same process.


LOL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605547684407934977

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> actually no raping happened , it was an sting operation , he was on a forum , he did some sexual act over computer while the one on other side (FBI Operative) claimed she was 15 .
> usually definition of rape is a little different
> 
> he is sexual offender not rapist , do you guys consider all sexual offenders as rapists



In Sweden you certainly can be convicted of rape, even if you never met the person you raped in real life.



Hack-Hook said:


> wasn't the punishments wandering around the earth even after those 40 years ?


----------



## Viet

Putin says Russia S300 is superior.
the US Patriot missile defense system is old, nothing to worry about. Russia will “knack” it. Putin, the optimist.

Ukraine troops will be trained in Germany on Patriot.


----------



## Viet

MrHyperForEver said:


> *Russo Ukraine Conflict : Bakhmut Update:-*
> 
> _Bakhmut is located in Ukraine Eastern Donbass Region and is a hotly contested area in the war._
> 
> According to Russians, their superior firepower (reportedly 4 times more in Bakhmut) plays an important part in suppressing Ukrainians and they are unable to launch counterattacks although a counter attack was launched by Ukraine earlier this week it only helped gaining 500m of land. Russian Army blasts Ukrainians all day long in this Wagner's elite assult troops regularly attack they hit hard, if Ukrainians are pushed back they take control, if they stay intact Wagner troops run : this is Russian tactic and its working so far although slow but better than much costy all out assaults.
> 
> Now the front is Bakhmut itself, Russians are trying to envelop it from South and North although not achieving it yet but if they get it even slowly Ukrainian troops are in danger as the main supply route will be cut off from South.
> 
> Just 15 minutes ago Ukrainian Ministry of Defense said regarding Bakhmut:- "In the direction of Bakhmut, the enemy shelled Verkhnokamianske, Bilogorivka, Bakhmut, Klishchiivka, Andriivka, Oleksandro-Shultyne, Kurdyumivka, Ozaryanivka, and New York of the Donetsk region."
> 
> This gives us an idea about intensive Russian shelling. Russians have taken the Eastern Industrial area of Bakhmut and the fight is now being actively fought in Residential areas.
> 
> Following map will give you an idea:-
> 
> _
> View attachment 907271
> _
> 
> Although this map is 7 days old but it can be termed accurate as no significant progress is made till then.
> 
> I think Ukrainians will ultimately retreat but they would wait till its not the worst situation and defeat is inevitable.


Ah that’s nothing. The Wagner hooligans attacking Bakhmut since how long? 6 months? How many of them have died? Thousands of thousands, just to gain some hundreds meters useless roads and ruins.

Prigoshin, hooligan chief himself is doing everything, sacrificing thousands to lick Putin’s boots. Seems he has some successes. Putin gives him some North Korea missiles.


----------



## Horse_Rider

PakFactor said:


> Lord and I will sit down over tea in the afterlife and have a serious discussion. You've sent 120,000 prophets and got them all killed like the Russian soldiers in Ukraine, even at one point dragging Moses back to the Tribes of Israel after he made his escape. Favored this retarded nation for generations over and over and got the same results; at some point, one kind of needed to question the whole plan.



That is some DEEP thoughts and critical thinking! I'd have given you better ratings if I could for such critical thinking!

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## Reashot Xigwin

Womp, womp








Putin’s only aircraft carrier in flames in Russia – follow live


Ukraine breaking news today




www.independent.co.uk

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## Horse_Rider

sammuel said:


> ohhh , a racist as well.



Isn't that amazing how quickly you play the "victim" card and jump onto others with "racists" and "anti-semitic" etc? Where is your love or humanity when over 1.4 billion Muslims are casually accused of being terrorists, violent, etc, etc? I've not seen ONE Jewish organization take a stand on that, while I know the entire global "human rights" scheme is essentially run by the Jewish non-profits, etc?



Corax said:


> Looking at you Jews and Arabs fighting over land is rather like looking at two fleas arguing over who owns the same dog they're on. The first humans to inhabit that land were neither Jews nor Muslims, in fact, they probably had no religion and were atheists (religion is a relatively modern social construct). But of course you believe "god" gave you that land, of all the places in the world, why did he give you a worthless piece of land? Why not some place rich in natural resources? The best way to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict would be to equalise the playing field - give the Palestinians nukes, they can then annihilate each other - no more Israel nor Palestine, problem solved.



Enlighten me, which initial men on earth were atheist's? That's some seriously malfunctioning anthropology......

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## The SC

A lot of updates..

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## Dalit

The SC said:


> A lot of updates..



Let me grab my coffee.

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## aviator_fan

sammuel said:


> Actually it was the Italian colonial administration that abolished slavery in Somalia at the turn of the 20th century.
> 
> However, some Somali clans notably the Biimal clan opposed this idea. The Bimaals fought Italians to keep their slaves. Although the Italians freed some Bantus, some Bantu groups, remained enslaved well until the 1930s,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slavery in Somalia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Wow you are teaching him his own country’s history. I know he was cutting and pasting Russian twitter feeds (like the others posting Ukraine) but I always thought when he posted his own narrative he had some substance And did his research. WHen he said they have kicked everybody out, I think credibility is lost. Wiki can really call out basic lack of knowledge.



jhungary said:


> Well, 40 billions to stop this. That's a bargain. As if that 40 billion mean anything in the US, I for one feel good about fucking Russian with my tax dollar, like they said, if you don't like it, you can always move.


$40 billion is about the revenue of a fortune 200 company. It’s pennies if your enemy makes all the wrong choices, adn all you have to do is keeping supplying weapons and deal with 10% inflation. It’s painful but not compared to the pain of Russia society or Ukraines. This is next generation coloniolism…



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What is Biden doing? Giving a massage to Zelensky puppet? 👇 Is this a Freemason ritual? Sick!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605925782219530240


It’s very clear what he is doing: exercising his ultimate power for continuing to provide metal and information to neutralize his largest enemy while sacrificing no lives. Ukrainians plan to fight to the last man regardless so may as well give them weapons to have a better chance.

I know you don’t like western exceptionalism or colonialism but this is what it is in the 21st century and Putin walked right into that trap

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## aviator_fan

BHAN85 said:


> You talk like medieval age people.
> 
> Most of states of this world are not sovereign and people dont give a fck.
> 
> And Ukraine can never be sovereign, they will be Russian or American puppets, but puppets.
> 
> Only a complete idiot will suicide himself in a stupid war to give foreign money to his ruling elite.


The 20 million citizens are not idiots. They have the right to choose whose puppet they want to be. Thats not for you to decide.

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## Ali_Baba

Xi Jinping 'demanded answers from Putin on end of Ukraine war'


The Russian despot was allegedly asked the exact dates he intends to end the bloody conflict by his Chinese counterpart, who threatened to halt communications unless he received a response.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> china tells Russia to stop the silly war ……

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beny Karachun

Corax said:


> Looking at you Jews and Arabs fighting over land is rather like looking at two fleas arguing over who owns the same dog they're on. The first humans to inhabit that land were neither Jews nor Muslims, in fact, they probably had no religion and were atheists (religion is a relatively modern social construct). But of course you believe "god" gave you that land, of all the places in the world, why did he give you a worthless piece of land? Why not some place rich in natural resources? The best way to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict would be to equalise the playing field - give the Palestinians nukes, they can then annihilate each other - no more Israel nor Palestine, problem solved.


Retard, you're the flea


----------



## aviator_fan

Horse_Rider said:


> Isn't that amazing how quickly you play the "victim" card and jump onto others with "racists" and "anti-semitic" etc? Where is your love or humanity when over 1.4 billion Muslims are casually accused of being terrorists, violent, etc, etc? I've not seen ONE Jewish organization take a stand on that, while I know the entire global "human rights" scheme is essentially run by the Jewish non-profits, etc?
> 
> 
> 
> Enlighten me, which initial men on earth were atheist's? That's some seriously malfunctioning anthropology......


Jstreet.org has taken a stand against West Bank demolitions: they are opposite of AIPAC


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What is Biden doing? Giving a massage to Zelensky puppet? 👇 Is this a Freemason ritual? Sick!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605925782219530240



It is getting worse. If he (*pervert Biden*) was giving the Zelensky puppet a massage before, he is going further now. How is this normal to these people? The irony is the puppet (Zelensky) is just standing there. Freemasons are a weird group of people. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605948648608608259

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## aviator_fan

Ali_Baba said:


> Xi Jinping 'demanded answers from Putin on end of Ukraine war'
> 
> 
> The Russian despot was allegedly asked the exact dates he intends to end the bloody conflict by his Chinese counterpart, who threatened to halt communications unless he received a response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> china tells Russia to stop the silly war ……


Please some enlightened individuals on this forum contact President Xi let him know how Putin is emerging victorious in this war and is executing to the war plans exactly as laid out in on Feb 28th, including the fake attack on Kiev so deceive NATO while the real cannon fodder battle would be fought in Bakhmut in Dec of the year. How dare Russia’s largest buyer of oil take this stand….Xi should be following the twitter feeds that relay that the war is about to collapse for Ukrainians and NATO has pretty much exhausted all its supplies.All of it

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL High IQ Rogopigs celebrating his birtday party within ukrainian artillery range.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605696157950148608
Thx to him UAF can add 2 more Russian in their score card.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It is getting worse. If he (*pervert Biden*) was giving the Zelensky puppet a massage before, he is going further now. How is this normal to these people? The irony is the puppet (Zelensky) is just standing there. Freemasons are a weird group of people. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605948648608608259


Maybe don't go to rusky propaganda for your news,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605716301544054784

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## jhungary

MrHyperForEver said:


> *Russo Ukraine Conflict : Bakhmut Update:-*
> 
> _Bakhmut is located in Ukraine Eastern Donbass Region and is a hotly contested area in the war._
> 
> According to Russians, their superior firepower (reportedly 4 times more in Bakhmut) plays an important part in suppressing Ukrainians and they are unable to launch counterattacks although a counter attack was launched by Ukraine earlier this week it only helped gaining 500m of land. Russian Army blasts Ukrainians all day long in this Wagner's elite assult troops regularly attack they hit hard, if Ukrainians are pushed back they take control, if they stay intact Wagner troops run : this is Russian tactic and its working so far although slow but better than much costy all out assaults.
> 
> Now the front is Bakhmut itself, Russians are trying to envelop it from South and North although not achieving it yet but if they get it even slowly Ukrainian troops are in danger as the main supply route will be cut off from South.
> 
> Just 15 minutes ago Ukrainian Ministry of Defense said regarding Bakhmut:- "In the direction of Bakhmut, the enemy shelled Verkhnokamianske, Bilogorivka, Bakhmut, Klishchiivka, Andriivka, Oleksandro-Shultyne, Kurdyumivka, Ozaryanivka, and New York of the Donetsk region."
> 
> This gives us an idea about intensive Russian shelling. Russians have taken the Eastern Industrial area of Bakhmut and the fight is now being actively fought in Residential areas.
> 
> Following map will give you an idea:-
> 
> _
> View attachment 907271
> _
> 
> Although this map is 7 days old but it can be termed accurate as no significant progress is made till then.
> 
> I think Ukrainians will ultimately retreat but they would wait till its not the worst situation and defeat is inevitable.



Retreat only if their position is untenable. And right now, for that to happen, Russian Force would need to cut off Bakhmut from the rest of Ukraine, otherwise they can still support their position there






Basically this mean as long as supply can flow into Bakhmut, Ukrainian will probably not abandoning their position, and to achieve that, Russia need to go South and North and cut off Bakhmut from Optyne and Soledar and then cut off the entire city. On the other hand, the Russian force at the same time would need to cross from the Eastern part of Bakhmut to THe Western part to keep pressure on the Ukrainian force there, which mean they will have to cross the Bakhmut River, which is the defensive line in Red. In order for them to take Bakhmut City. 

Otherwise Ukraine can still supply their force from Ivanivske from the West and Berkhivka from the North. 

On the other hand, by all account, when Ukraine retaken Kherson without a fight, that mean that should have taking 10+ Brigade from that area and they are free to move into Bakmhut to overwhelm the Russian there if the Ukrianian wanted to. The Russian pull their troop from Kherson and put them in Bakhmut but Ukrainian did not replicate that move, for me, it tell me 2 things. 

1.) They are happy with the situation in Bakhmut. They are happy to keep grinding the Russian there.
2.) The Ukrainian are probably preparing something that needed the bulk of those troop that was freed from Kherson. 

I don't see Ukraine would give up Bakhmut, because that would be a very exhausting affair, the best Russian can pull is to take Eastern Side of Bakhmut and stop at the red line in my map. 





BHAN85 said:


> You talk like medieval age people.
> 
> Most of states of this world are not sovereign and people dont give a fck.
> 
> And Ukraine can never be sovereign, they will be Russian or American puppets, but puppets.
> 
> Only a complete idiot will suicide himself in a stupid war to give foreign money to his ruling elite.


Well, so, if we went by your logic, if it was US or NATO who invaded Ukraine, should Ukraine folded and become US puppet because it's better to live like a puppet than dying for your own identity?? I mean you cannot support one side and denounce the other if you think it's all the same because no one cares. Better live like a puppet than die rich, am I right?

I mean, you may not give a f.ck, that does not mean people in the world should not. 

As I said, I felt sorry for people who call you their "Compatriot" because you have absolutely no value to your country.

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## kingQamaR

He's going to the US because their weapons allow Ukraine to cause serious damage to the Russian army. Russia has been retreating for months. Do you really think Russia will win this?

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> He's going to the US because their weapons allow Ukraine to cause serious damage to the Russian army.


sure


kingQamaR said:


> Russia has been retreating for months.


Russia or Ukraine? Also, were did has Russia been retreating? Ukraine hasnt taken any town since it took half of Kherson last i knew..


kingQamaR said:


> Do you really think Russia will win this?


why are you asking this if you're sure Ukraine will win it?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606032391822118912
The "Russian mortars do the most of the killings...."


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606026968805257216


----------



## Corax

Horse_Rider said:


> Isn't that amazing how quickly you play the "victim" card and jump onto others with "racists" and "anti-semitic" etc? Where is your love or humanity when over 1.4 billion Muslims are casually accused of being terrorists, violent, etc, etc? I've not seen ONE Jewish organization take a stand on that, while I know the entire global "human rights" scheme is essentially run by the Jewish non-profits, etc?
> 
> 
> 
> Enlighten me, which initial men on earth were atheist's? That's some seriously malfunctioning anthropology......



Go study actual anthropology and you'll find the answer, rather than your madrasa brainwashing.



Beny Karachun said:


> Retard, you're the flea



That's it? That's the best you can do? Prove to me your "god" gave you that land. First you'll have to prove your "god" exists 😂


----------



## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> wasn't the punishments wandering around the earth even after those 40 years ?


Nope, Bani Israel returned to Israel after those 40 years.

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Well, 40 billions to stop this. That's a bargain. As if that 40 billion mean anything in the US, I for one feel good about fucking Russian with my tax dollar, like they said, if you don't like it, you can always move.


As I always said, if you like it you should move. US Tax payer money for US people, who gives a fu(k about Ukraine and Russia unless you have some vested interest?

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## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It is getting worse. If he (*pervert Biden*) was giving the Zelensky puppet a massage before, he is going further now. How is this normal to these people? The irony is the puppet (Zelensky) is just standing there. Freemasons are a weird group of people. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605948648608608259


Ah man ****ing Biden lmfao, obviously it's edited tho

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## S10

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605547684407934977


How's the war in Afghanistan with all those supreme NATO technology?

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## Beny Karachun

S10 said:


> How's the war in Afghanistan with all those supreme NATO technology?


Was going very well until the US decided to pull out.
Goes to show how effective NATO technology is.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606010213940678656

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## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> sure
> 
> Russia or Ukraine? Also, were did has Russia been retreating? Ukraine hasnt taken any town since it took half of Kherson last i knew..
> 
> why are you asking this if you're sure Ukraine will win it?




The Russkis continually claim that Ukraine is losing. At the moment Russia is losing. Ukraine may not have won, but that day seems to loom. "It's no secret that this operation is going to be over in mere hours", the late Lieutenant General Yakov Rezantsev. "If I wanted, in two days I could have Russian troops not only in Kyiv but also in Riga, Vilnius, Tallinn, Warsaw and Bucharest.", Vladimir Vladimorovich Putin, reported in Suddeutsche Zeitung. Two days!! This 'special operation' of "mere hours" has taken 9 months, 2 weeks, 5 days, or 292 days, or 7,008 hours. Haha

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606083414318321664


----------



## PakistaniandProud

Beny Karachun said:


> Nope, Bani Israel returned to Israel after those 40 years.



What are your inputs of the theories of Pashtuns (large amounts of people from Pakistan & Afghanistan, including Imran Khan, Malala, myself and many others) are descendants from exiled lost tribes of Bani Israel?

"Bani Israel theory. *There is a tradition among the Pashtuns of being descended from the exiled lost tribes of Israel*. This tradition was referenced in 19th-century Western scholarship and was also incorporated in the "Lost Tribes" literature popular at the time (notably George Moore's The Lost Tribes of 1861)."






Theories of Pashtun origin - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


















The Jewish Origins Of The Taliban


Are there Jewish origins to the Pashtun tribe - the Taliban? Tablet Magazine's history detective Dan Shapira investigates.




www.tabletmag.com





Also interesting is that Netanyahu/Israel sees "Pakistan" as one of their biggest threats now, people who could be very similar to them.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605950862127292416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605950865298399234

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605950868985085953

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakistaniandProud

Pakistan Could Upgrade Ukraine’s T-80UD Tanks Despite Wanting To Stay Away From ‘Disputes & Clashes'


https://eurasiantimes.com/pakistan-could-upgrade-ukraines-t-80ud-main-battle-tanks/ ByKN Pandita December 17, 2022 Speaking to Channel News Asia (CAN) on December 9, Pakistan’s foreign minister, Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, said that his country was neutral in the war between Russia and Ukraine...



defence.pk


----------



## Corax

PakistaniandProud said:


> What are your inputs of the theories of Pashtuns (large amounts of people from Pakistan & Afghanistan, including Imran Khan, Malala, myself and many others) are descendants from exiled lost tribes of Bani Israel?
> 
> "Bani Israel theory. *There is a tradition among the Pashtuns of being descended from the exiled lost tribes of Israel*. This tradition was referenced in 19th-century Western scholarship and was also incorporated in the "Lost Tribes" literature popular at the time (notably George Moore's The Lost Tribes of 1861)."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theories of Pashtun origin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Origins Of The Taliban
> 
> 
> Are there Jewish origins to the Pashtun tribe - the Taliban? Tablet Magazine's history detective Dan Shapira investigates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tabletmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also interesting that Netanyahu/Israel sees Taliban and "Pakistan" as their biggest threats now, people who could be very similar to them.



Pashtuns, much like the Kalash, are largely descendents of Macedonian Greeks from Alexander's campaigns eastward.


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## PakistaniandProud

Corax said:


> Pashtuns, much like the Kalash, are largely descendents of Macedonian Greeks from Alexander's campaigns eastward.



That is 100% incorrect for Pashtuns. Even for the Kalash people, it was proven that the theory of Alexander was wrong.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605948193123860480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605948197561516032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605948200443154437

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Corax

PakistaniandProud said:


> That is 100% incorrect for Pashtuns. Even for the Kalash people, it was proven that the theory of Alexander was wrong.



Interesting, can you provide details how it was proved wrong? Genuinely interested to know.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606084237030875136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606084636886474752

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605819330897227776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605819336886611968

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605977317498671106

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Beny Karachun

PakistaniandProud said:


> What are your inputs of the theories of Pashtuns (large amounts of people from Pakistan & Afghanistan, including Imran Khan, Malala, myself and many others) are descendants from exiled lost tribes of Bani Israel?
> 
> "Bani Israel theory. *There is a tradition among the Pashtuns of being descended from the exiled lost tribes of Israel*. This tradition was referenced in 19th-century Western scholarship and was also incorporated in the "Lost Tribes" literature popular at the time (notably George Moore's The Lost Tribes of 1861)."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theories of Pashtun origin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Origins Of The Taliban
> 
> 
> Are there Jewish origins to the Pashtun tribe - the Taliban? Tablet Magazine's history detective Dan Shapira investigates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tabletmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also interesting is that Netanyahu/Israel sees "Pakistan" as one of their biggest threats now, people who could be very similar to them.


I don't know much about this honestly.

Netanyahu doesn't see Pakistan as a threat.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605749097935228929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605576927573512192

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## S10

Beny Karachun said:


> Was going very well until the US decided to pull out.
> Goes to show how effective NATO technology is.


Lot of words to say "lost"

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606050705340395521

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> As I always said, if you like it you should move. US Tax payer money for US people, who gives a fu(k about Ukraine and Russia unless you have some vested interest?


Apparently, *MAJORITY OF AMERICAN GIVES A FLYING **** *

Again, like it or not, you and I (I don't know about you, but as a US Citizen myself and served in the Armed Force of United States) I have no say on what the government did as long as they have majority backing, *AND THEY HAD MAJORITY* backing.

So there are pretty much nothing you can do about it. Maybe if you are that good, you should lobby the American to pull support from Ukraine. But I doubt you can pull this out simply because even Trump Tard can't.

And as I said, if you don't want your tax dollar to go into Ukraine, moving is always an option for you. 

P.S. I used to live in Ukraine, and I just went there and personally contribute for the Ukrainian to **** with the Russian back in April.


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## PakistaniandProud

Beny Karachun said:


> Netanyahu doesn't see Pakistan as a threat.



Oh yes, he does. His own words.


----------



## jhungary

aviator_fan said:


> $40 billion is about the revenue of a fortune 200 company. It’s pennies if your enemy makes all the wrong choices, adn all you have to do is keeping supplying weapons and deal with 10% inflation. It’s painful but not compared to the pain of Russia society or Ukraines. This is next generation coloniolism…



40 billion is peanuts. To put it into perspective

US defence budget is approximately 780 billons in 2022. ~1/19 of US defence budget, 40 billions is a bit smaller than South Korean Defence Budget (at 48 Billions) and slightly higher than Defence Budget of Australia (at 32 Billions) 

Christian Dior, the make up manufacture company in Paris, have an operation revenue of 53.1 billions. Compare to the biggest in Fortune 500 - Walmart, Walmart have an operational revenue of 572 billion. 

A single day Economic Activities in the US worth 68 billons on average.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beny Karachun

PakistaniandProud said:


> Oh yes, he does. His own words.


He said a nuclear Pakistan is a threat like 30 years ago before you even had nuclear weapons, and said that unstable Islamic countries shouldn't have nukes.

He never really mentioned Pakistan again since then.


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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> In Sweden you certainly can be convicted of rape, even if you never met the person you raped in real life.



Thats nonsense. show me one example of this in Sweden.


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## Beny Karachun

S10 said:


> Lot of words to say "lost"


In what way? militarily? Nah. Afghanistan was a testing ground and a training field of Americans.

But the American army was tasked with a mission it was never intended to do, create a new government.
Afghan army lost, not the American one.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

PakistaniandProud said:


> What are your inputs of the theories of Pashtuns (large amounts of people from Pakistan & Afghanistan, including Imran Khan, Malala, myself and many others) are descendants from exiled lost tribes of Bani Israel?
> 
> "Bani Israel theory. *There is a tradition among the Pashtuns of being descended from the exiled lost tribes of Israel*. This tradition was referenced in 19th-century Western scholarship and was also incorporated in the "Lost Tribes" literature popular at the time (notably George Moore's The Lost Tribes of 1861)."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theories of Pashtun origin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Origins Of The Taliban
> 
> 
> Are there Jewish origins to the Pashtun tribe - the Taliban? Tablet Magazine's history detective Dan Shapira investigates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tabletmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also interesting is that Netanyahu/Israel sees "Pakistan" as one of their biggest threats now, people who could be very similar to them.



They should immediately all move to Israel and ask for Israeli passports. Do you personally think they are descendants of jews? Do they speak in annoying voices and eat chicken soup all the time? Are most Pashtuns doctors and lawyers?


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## kingQamaR

When do the patriot missile units go to Ukraine and will US crews be manning them until Ukrainian crews are up to speed on theml? News reports mentions multiple month training time to operate the units. So, missile units go NOW with American troops operating them or the units go AFTER Ukrainian troops know how to operate them in how many months? Would USA put its own service men in Ukraine in the firing line ?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PakistaniandProud

Beny Karachun said:


> He said a nuclear Pakistan is a threat like 30 years ago before you even had nuclear weapons, and said that unstable Islamic countries shouldn't have nukes.
> 
> He never really mentioned Pakistan again since then.



That interview was not "30 years ago". It was about 11 years old at the max. Pakistan has had nuclear weapons for a total of 24 years.

Here's the source of that interview:






Not mentioning Pakistan again doesn't mean much. He stated what he did. "Unstable Islamic countries shouldn't have nukes" - his perspective, likewise what we think of Israel. Doesn't change the fact he mentioned what he had.


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## thetutle

kingQamaR said:


> When do the patriot missile units go to Ukraine and will US crews be manning them until Ukrainian crews are up to speed on theml? News reports mentions multiple month training time to operate the units. So, missile units go NOW with American troops operating them or the units go AFTER Ukrainian troops know how to operate them in how many months? Would USA put its own service men in Ukraine in the firing line ?


Ukrainians will be manning them of course. There is no need for US troops. I'm sure these things can be manned remotely anyway. And if they cant they will be training Ukrainians to do it all. In fact, how do we know they haven't trained ukranians to use them already. They might have trained the ukranians up months ago and just waited for the political decision to be made to send the patriots over.

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## Beny Karachun

PakistaniandProud said:


> That interview was not "30 years ago". It was about 11 years old at the max. Pakistan has had nuclear weapons for a total of 24 years.
> 
> Here's the source of that interview:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not mentioning Pakistan again doesn't mean much. He stated what he did. "Unstable Islamic countries shouldn't have nukes" - his perspective, likewise what we think of Israel. Doesn't change the fact he mentioned what he had.


I don't think that's the same interview I was talking about. If he didn't mention Pakistan then it isn't the same one.

He refers to Iran. Ever since I was born Pakistan was only mentioned in the news when you had fights with India and when your defense minister threatened us with nuclear weapons over some fake news he saw on the internet.



Anyways, he is right, unstable Islamic countries shouldn't have nukes,

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## PakistaniandProud

Beny Karachun said:


> I don't think that's the same interview I was talking about. If he didn't mention Pakistan then it isn't the same one.
> 
> He refers to Iran. Ever since I was born Pakistan was only mentioned in the news when you had fights with India and when your defense minister threatened us with nuclear weapons over some fake news he saw on the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, he is right, unstable Islamic countries shouldn't have nukes,



25:55-27:00, Pakistan is mentioned. He describes it as a "Taliban takeover" (which already occurred next door). And I know that Pakistan isn't often talked about in Israel. But, the higher-ups (like Netanyahu) understand the threat Pakistan imposes on them.

Again, the use of the words "unstable countries" is subjective here. Many view the apartheid state of Israel as unstable and a radical regime.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beny Karachun

PakistaniandProud said:


> 25:55-27:00, Pakistan is mentioned. He describes it as a "Taliban takeover" (which already occurred next door). And I know that Pakistan isn't often talked about in Israel. But, the higher-ups (like Netanyahu) understand the threat Pakistan imposes on them.
> 
> Again, the use of the words "unstable countries" is subjective here. Many view the apartheid state of Israel as unstable and a radical regime.


Well yeah you could think of that as a threat, but that applies to everyone.

Not just Israel, but literally any country.

Pakistan isn't a threat, or perhaps a better word would be an active threat. It is as much threat as North Korea is to Israel. Too far to really be relevant.

Israel is very stable though, even if someone calls it Apartheid. Muslim countries tend to enter civil wars. Imagine if Iraq or Syria had nuclear weapons.


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## Stranagor

Viet said:


> You know the story of the king wearing invisible cloth? Putin is the king of Russia. There is no opposition. After 20y in power he only listens to himself. He considers other are dumb stooges. All say to him, he has the longest penis. At some point in time he believes he has the longest.



Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.


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## Dalit

It is such a splendid joy. Reading this topic every now and then. It gives you the impression that a certain part of the world is in great pain that it joyfully inflicted for so long on others. Now that war has reached its shores the pain has become unbearable.

What gives me even more pleasure is that certain members in this topic that have been taunting other war stricken regions for a while are today grieving for their own misery. They are forcing others to mourn with them or else... The tone is very agressive and hostile against those that are not willing to tow their line. Well, you can't force anyone to tow your line. People will have their own independent views on the subject matter.



Beny Karachun said:


> Well yeah you could think of that as a threat, but that applies to everyone.
> 
> Not just Israel, but literally any country.
> 
> Pakistan isn't a threat, or perhaps a better word would be an active threat. It is as much threat as North Korea is to Israel. Too far to really be relevant.
> 
> Israel is very stable though, even if someone calls it Apartheid. Muslim countries tend to enter civil wars. Imagine if Iraq or Syria had nuclear weapons.



Bruv. Your higher ups are obsessed with Pakistan. Any Islamic country possesing nuclear weapons is a major concern for Israel and papa USA. Non-active can become active in a blink of an eye. You know that, right? Let there be absolutely no doubt about this. Israel wants Pakistan denuclearised at the earliest. Period. That is Israeli main objective. It is not like a secret wish or is it now? Israelis consider any Islamic nation with nukes a potential threat. Whether active or non-active. Yes, apart from that Israel doesn't care about Pakistan just like Pakistan doesn't care about Israel.

The question is, how will papa Biden, papa Modi and papa Netanyahu denuclearise Pakistan? Are you willing to do a Tom Cruise with F-35 fighter jets? Stuxnet 2.0 perhaps?

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## Dalit

PakistaniandProud said:


> That interview was not "30 years ago". It was about 11 years old at the max. Pakistan has had nuclear weapons for a total of 24 years.
> 
> Here's the source of that interview:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not mentioning Pakistan again doesn't mean much. He stated what he did. "Unstable Islamic countries shouldn't have nukes" - his perspective, likewise what we think of Israel. Doesn't change the fact he mentioned what he had.



Let me just say this much. Papa America is working on Pakistan in various ways. The Americans are showing a great deal of patience which is unlike the Americans. Probably they have to since the problem is very delicate. The latest regime change operation in cooperation with the Pak military is yet the latest example. Papa America won't let go easily. There is too much at stake. China's involvement in Pakistan has been irking the Americans for a while. It is also a matter of prestige and ego. Pakistan has been a so-called ally of convenience since the Cold War era. The Americans won't admit openly, but they hate the idea of such an ally of convenience picking the opposite side in protest. Secondly, papa America has to fulfill the duty of a daddy on behalf of India and Israel. Since papa America is fully in bed with said nations, it feels compelled to listen and take care of their concerns. Is it a secret that both India and Israel have certain complaints against Pakistan?

The Americans understand that the removal of Imran Khan was probably as far as the Pakistani military could go to accommodate certain wishes. The China and nuclear questions remain unanswered and the Pakistani generals will never acommodate I suppose? Unless the Pak army is led by Bajwa 2.0 on steroids? Again, the Americans are working on Pakistan.


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## sammuel

Dalit said:


> It is such a splendid joy. Reading this topic every now and then. It gives you the impression that a certain part of the world is in great pain that it joyfully inflicted for so long on others.



The one that are suffering are Ukrainians that have done nothing to you , and soldiers on both sides that will be stuck in muddy trenches this winter under constant shelling , world war 1 style .

And this brings you " splendid joy " .

take some history lessons from Sting , you know he was a teacher before he was a singer.







~

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## Beny Karachun

Dalit said:


> It is such a splendid joy. Reading this topic every now and then. It gives you the impression that a certain part of the world is in great pain that it joyfully inflicted for so long on others. Now that war has reached its shores the pain has become unbearable.
> 
> What gives me even more pleasure is that certain members in this topic that have been taunting other war stricken regions for a while are today grieving for their own misery. They are forcing others to mourn with them or else... The tone is very agressive and hostile against those that are not willing to tow their line. Well, you can't force anyone to tow your line. People will have their own independent views on the subject matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Bruv. Your higher ups are obsessed with Pakistan. Any Islamic country possesing nuclear weapons is a major concern for Israel and papa USA. Non-active can become active in a blink of an eye. You know that, right? Let there be absolutely no doubt about this. Israel wants Pakistan denuclearised at the earliest. Period. That is Israeli main objective. Israelis consider any Islamic nation with nukes a potential threat. Whether active or non-active. Yes, apart from that Israel doesn't care about Pakistan just like Pakistan doesn't care about Israel.
> 
> The question is, how will papa Biden, papa Modi and papa Netanyahu denuclearise Pakistan? Are you willing to do a Tom Cruise with F-35 fighter jets? Stuxnet 2.0 perhaps?


No one's going to de-nuclearize you, MAD will prevent any nuclear exchange as long as you're not some fanatics like the Shias in Iran or get overthrown by the Taliban.

Israel isn't obsessed with Pakistan, Mossad spies on you be sure of that, but other than that no obsession and no nothing.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Dalit

sammuel said:


> The one that are suffering are Ukrainians that have done nothing to you and soldiers on both sides that will be stuck in muddy trenches under constant shelling , world war 1 style .
> 
> And this brings you " splendid joy " .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



You failed to understand. More than that, it gives me joy seeing YOU in such a state. Don't put the Ukrainians above yourself you shelfish little man. Now don't get sentimental because I won't cry for you.



Beny Karachun said:


> No one's going to de-nuclearize you, MAD will prevent any nuclear exchange as long as you're not some fanatics like the Shias in Iran or get overthrown by the Taliban.
> 
> Israel isn't obsessed with Pakistan, Mossad spies on you be sure of that, but other than that no obsession and no nothing.



We also read the news and analyse your side. We are not stupid, bruv. From what we gather for years is that Israel won't take any chances. From your perspective that might be the right thing. Albeit, the opposing side also has it's own perspective and justifications. There are influential voices in Israel and the US political arena that consider Pakistan a much higher threat than Iran. Simply because Pakistan already possesses nuclear weapons. You know this, right? You must also know that Israel was ready to strike Pakistani nuclear reactors in its early days. A well documented fact. That should really tell you how serious Israel is about the removal of Pakistani nuclear program. It is a real major concern to you guys. Just like it is to your sponsor papa America. Biden didn't have a slip of toungue recently when he claimed that Pakistan is the most dangerous country. He didn't say Iran, but he referred to Pakistan. We all know what he meant.


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## Viet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605986043227881473


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## sammuel

Dalit said:


> You failed to understand. More than that, it gives me joy seeing YOU in such a state. Don't put the Ukrainians above yourself you shelfish little man. Now don't get sentimental because I won't cry for you.



I also favored Argentina to win the world cup , following your logic , i guess that spells doom for them.


----------



## Viet

Volodymyr Zelensky in Bakhmut.
OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE

Bakhmut Is ‘Soaked In Blood’ As Eight Of Ukraine’s Best Brigades Battle 40,000 Former Russian Prisoners​
Russian mercenary firm The Wagner Group since this summer has been trying, and so far failing, to capture the town of Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region.

For Wagner, Bakhmut is a symbol. In seizing the ruins of the lifeless town, which lies 10 miles southwest of Russian-occupied Severodonetsk—one of Donbas’s bigger cities—Wagner apparently aims to establish itself as an alternative to the regular Russian army.


But at least eight of the Ukrainian army’s heaviest brigades keep interrupting Wagner’s plan—and making the battle for Bakhmut a statement about Wagner’s weakness rather than its strength.


“The Russian military and mercenaries have been attacking Bakhmut nonstop since May,” Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky said Wednesday. “They have been attacking it day and night, but Bakhmut stands.”


The Ukrainian brigades in and around Bakhmut—the 60th and 71st Infantry Brigades, the 24th, 57th and 58th Mechanized Brigades, the 4th Tank Brigade, the 46th Air Mobile Brigade, the 128th Mountain Brigadeand others—represent the best of Kyiv’s active army, which in 10 months of hard fighting has bulked up with new and heavier weapons while also translating extensive battlefield experience into better tactics and small-unit leadership.

Each brigade might have 3,000 troops and a hundred or more armored vehicles plus artillery and drones.

The battle for Bakhmut is ongoing. Wagner attacked—again—last week. The Ukrainian counterattacked—again—this week. By Wednesday the front lines were stable enough for Zelensky to drop into Bakhmut for a quick visit with the local garrison. A day later, Zelensky was en route to Washington, D.C. to address the U.S. Congress.


“Last year, 70,000 people lived here in Bakhmut, in this city, and now only few civilians stay,” Zelensky told lawmakers from the U.S. House and Senate, minus a few dozen pro-Russia Republicans who declined to attend the Ukrainian president’s speech.

“Every inch of that land is soaked in blood; roaring guns sound every hour,” Zelensky added. “Trenches in the Donbas change hands several times a day in fierce combat, and even hand-fighting. But the Ukrainian Donbas stands.”

There’s no sign Wagner’s about to give up. But extreme losses—not only in infantry, but also among the mercenary company’s attack pilots—have diminished Wagner’s chances.

After expending its initial contingent of skilled fighters in its first few attempts to capture Bakhmut, the company this fall began recruiting thousands of convicts from Russian prisons—and shoving them toward Bakhmut without adequate training or equipment. According to Pentagon spokesman John Kirby, Wagner might have as many as 50,000 fighters in Ukraine, 40,000 of whom are former prisoners.

Ironically, the closer Wagner gets to downtown Bakhmut, the more dire its predicament becomes. “Intense combat has occurred in the Bakhmut sector since June 2022, but the front lines have primarily been in open country around the eastern approaches to the town,” the U.K. Defense Ministry explained.

“The war has seen little protracted, large-scale fighting in built-up areas since the Russian advances into Lysychansk and Severodonetsk in July 2022,” the ministry added.

Urban combat requires “highly trained infantry with excellent junior-level leadership,” the ministry stated. Ukraine’s brigades have highly-trained infantry, thanks in part to NATO instructors. They have good junior leaders, too, owing to a military culture that distributes responsibility to younger officers and sergeants rather than solely assigning it to aging colonels and generals, as is the Russian custom.

As the Bakhmut battle grinds into its eighth month and becomes increasingly urban, the Ukrainians probably have the advantage. “This type of combat is unlikely to favor poorly-trained Wagner fighters,” the U.K. Defense Ministry concluded.










Bakhmut Is ‘Soaked In Blood’ As Eight Of Ukraine’s Best Brigades Battle 40,000 Former Russian Prisoners


At least eight of the Ukrainian army’s heaviest brigades keep interrupting The Wagner Group’s plan—and making the battle for Bakhmut a statement about Wagner’s weakness rather than its strength.




www.forbes.com

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Dalit

sammuel said:


> I also favored Argentina to win the world cup , following your logic , i guess that spells doom for them.



I saw Zelensky beg in US. The little comedian stood there and he begged for the spotlight. LOL Some US politicians held the Ukrainian flag to comfort his ego. I guess he will be back on his flight to Ukraine and return to the shitshow he belongs in.


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## SIPRA

Dalit said:


> I guess he will be back on his flight to Ukraine and return to the shitshow he belongs in.



I thought, he already is back.


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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> Thats nonsense. show me one example of this in Sweden.











HD prövar inte målet om nätvåldtäkter


Högsta domstolen kommer inte att pröva målet där en 41-årig man från Norduppland dömts som skyldig till flera fall av våldtäkt via nätet. Både mannen och offren hade överklagat hovrättsdomen, men HD har nu beslutat att inte ge prövningstillstånd.




www.svt.se




(in Swedish)


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## TopGun786

Beny Karachun said:


> I don't think that's the same interview I was talking about. If he didn't mention Pakistan then it isn't the same one.
> 
> He refers to Iran. Ever since I was born Pakistan was only mentioned in the news when you had fights with India and when your defense minister threatened us with nuclear weapons over some fake news he saw on the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, he is right, unstable Islamic countries shouldn't have nukes,


Don't worry. Occupied Palestine will not be nuked. It is not written in Ahadith. There will be some other means  
Well, like I always say... you know it better than me.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

SIPRA said:


> I thought, he already is back.



That was even quicker than I thought...


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## TopGun786

PakistaniandProud said:


> 25:55-27:00, Pakistan is mentioned. He describes it as a "Taliban takeover" (which already occurred next door). And I know that Pakistan isn't often talked about in Israel. But, the higher-ups (like Netanyahu) understand the threat Pakistan imposes on them.
> 
> Again, the use of the words "unstable countries" is subjective here. Many view the apartheid state of Israel as unstable and a radical regime.


Orcource apartheid state of Isra-el is highly unstable. It is a tiny rouge nation that receives at least 3.3$ aid from the USA. That is more than 9 million USD per day (Yes 9M$/day).
Basically, it is just a camp of the USA and Western powers in the middle east to keep busy with Arab and other Muslim countries. Once the USA withdraws its aid and support this bunch of white settlers cannot stand even for one week.


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## khansaheeb

‘These are not rental cars’: As Ukraine pleads for tanks, the West holds back


As Ukrainian forces retake territory, the vehicles have shot to the top of their wish list.




www.politico.com





DEFENSE
‘These are not rental cars’: As Ukraine pleads for tanks, the West holds back​As Ukrainian forces retake territory, the vehicles have shot to the top of their wish list.






American-made M-1 Abrams and German-made Leopard tanks could help Kyiv’s forces capture and hold more ground, compared to the old Soviet-era tanks they currently operate. | Evgeniy Maloletka/AP Photo
By LARA SELIGMAN, PAUL MCLEARY and ERIN BANCO
09/22/2022 12:26 PM EDT








Ukraine is asking urgently for modern tanks to help their forces seize on rapid gains in the northeast and take additional territory, but the West is dragging its feet, according to seven people with knowledge of the matter.
The tanks have shot to the top of Kyiv’s wish list as Ukraine presses its gains in the eastern Donbas region amid the shocking Russian collapse this month. The request took on new urgency this week after Vladimir Putin announced that he would mobilize 300,000 additional troops for the fight in Ukraine, a major escalation of the campaign.

The more modern American-made M-1 Abrams and German-made Leopard tanks would add a powerful punch that could help Kyiv’s forces capture and hold more ground, compared to the old Soviet-era tanks they currently operate, say experts and Ukrainian advisers. But top national security officials in both countries have hesitated to provide the tanks, in part due to the training and logistics challenges involved, according to U.S. officials, Ukrainian advisers and congressional aides.


The M-1s, for example, are a completely different system than the Soviet-era tanks Ukraine currently operates, and require significant maintenance and logistics support.
“It’s a pretty high hurdle to get Ukraine not only U.S.-made tanks but the parts to maintain them,” said one U.S. official, who like others interviewed for this article spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss ongoing conversations. “You don’t want to give them something that’s going to break down and run out of gas and they can’t refuel them.”
For the immediate fight, the Leopards might be a better fit because they are similar to the tanks Ukraine already operates and require less fuel than the Abrams, the official said. But Germany has repeatedly rejected Ukraine’s request for the tanks, with Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht recently saying Berlin has agreed with NATO partners not to take such action “unilaterally.”
This debate over tanks is the latest skirmish in the back-and-forth over weapons between the West and Ukraine. At each step, the U.S. hesitated for months before providing a certain weapon – first the Stinger anti-air missiles, then later the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System – concerned they would be a “red line” that would risk provoking Russia into a new escalation, only to change their mind and transfer the weapons as the war evolved and battlefield needs changed.
In this case, Western-style tanks would provide a major upgrade to Kyiv’s armored force in terms of range, speed and fire control, allowing Ukrainian forces to hit a Russian target up to a mile and a half away and move before the enemy can shoot back, said retired Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, a former commander of U.S. Army Europe.
But the training required and the logistical tail — an M-1 division can consume up to 600,000 gallons of fuel a day — could hinder Ukraine’s movement, he cautioned.



“These are not rental cars, there’s a lot that goes with it,” Hodges said. “You are basically adding hundreds of additional things that would have to be carried along. … You look at a U.S. Army tank company today, there are thousands of gallons of fuel following behind them every day.”


Kirby calls Putin's military mobilization 'a sign that he's struggling'

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Kyiv’s request for Western-style tanks predates the most recent counteroffensive and Russia’s withdrawal from much of eastern Ukraine. But in the last two weeks, senior U.S. officials have discussed with European allies, including Germany, the possibility of sending tanks to the fight, according to a senior U.S. official and an individual familiar with the matter.
“It’s top of their list now, it didn’t used to be,” said one congressional staffer familiar with the request. “They are trying to retake territory and tanks are helpful for doing that.”
One adviser to the Ukrainian government said “the Ukrainians definitely want the Leopards” and have been frustrated that Germany has denied the permits to Spain and other countries that were willing to donate them. The Leopard tank is one of the most in-demand main battle tanks in Europe, in use in over a dozen countries.
NATO countries have been providing Ukraine with Soviet-era tanks and fighting vehicles over the course of the conflict, led by Poland, which donated about 250 T-72 tanks this spring. Warsaw inked a $1.1 billion deal in July to buy 250 of the most modern Abrams tanks to replace them.
The Germans have been backfilling smaller countries that are sending their own armored vehicles to Ukraine, and in May pledged to transfer 15 Leopards from their own stocks to the Czech Republic after they sent their own Russian-made armor to Kyiv. In August, Berlin agreed to send another 15 Leopards to Slovakia to replace the 30 armored infantry fighting vehicles they donated. Several countries, including Spain, requested German permission to hand their tanks over to Ukraine, but were denied the permits as Berlin continues to struggle with its longstanding policy of refusing to export arms to conflict zones.
German defense company Rheinmetall also requested government approval to export 88 Leopard tanks to Ukraine, but Berlin refused to grant permission.
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Modern tanks could make a significant difference on the battlefield heading into the winter, as Putin readies the additional 300,000 troops for deployment. Experts said it’s not clear yet how long it will take Moscow to train and equip the troops for the fight, particularly as they have a mix of combat experience.
Speaking at a defense industry conference in Texas on Wednesday, Ukraine’s Deputy Defense Minister Volodymyr Havrylov said “winter also is a window of opportunity for [our] military,” and equipped with the “right armament and equipment, we can also succeed more during the wintertime.”
Before heading to Texas, Havrylov spent several days in Washington meeting with Pentagon and defense industry officials about what Ukraine is looking for in the coming months. He warned that while “some people here and in Europe still think that Russia is a sleeping bear, but in fact it is a frightened jackal in a bear’s skin.”
The call-up of former Russian soldiers back into the military won’t likely have any effect on the battlefield for months, but it has roiled Russian society. One-way flights out of Russia are selling out following the announcement, as ordinary Russians head for the exits, and videos show mass protests against the mobilization across the country.
The former Russian soldiers are poorly trained to begin with, as Russian mandatory military service is only one year, according to a report by the Institute for the Study of War. The skills they do learn degrade over time as they get no “refresher training.”




The request took on new urgency this week after Vladimir Putin announced that he would mobilize 300,000 additional troops for the fight in Ukraine. | Russian Presidential Press Service via AP/AP Photo
“The partial mobilization announcement lacks clarity and will lack meaningful impact,” Hodges said. “It will be many months before they can be properly equipped and trained and organized/deployed to Ukraine. And without massive artillery support, these new soldiers will be pure cannon fodder, sitting in cold, wet trenches this winter as Ukrainian forces continue to press.”
Russia’s mobilization “is a debacle” for the Kremlin, said Dara Massicot, a Russian military expert at the RAND Corporation, and former Pentagon official.



Putting involuntary call-ups “piecemeal into units that are already significantly degraded, and putting them into a situation where the morale is already poor,” will likely only add to the moral and unit cohesion problems plaguing the Russian army, Massicot said.
“It’s not fixing their problems, it’s accelerating it.”
In the long-term, the U.S. recognizes there may come a day when Ukraine will need to transition to tanks compatible with NATO allies, said a senior Defense Department official. But for now, Soviet-era tanks are the best fit.
“Tanks are absolutely on the table along with other areas,” the official said. “In terms of the immediate fight, the tanks that are available that could be provided very quickly with little to no training are Soviet-type tanks, but we’re certainly open to other options provided that the training, maintenance and sustainment can be taken care of.”
_Bryan Bender contributed to this report._



FILED UNDER: 
RUSSIA, 
SOVIET UNION, 
VLADIMIR PUTIN, 
UKRAINE, 
RUSSIA’S WAR ON UKRAINE


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## Viet

Dalit said:


> I saw Zelensky beg in US. The little comedian stood there and he begged for the spotlight. LOL Some US politicians held the Ukrainian flag to comfort his ego. I guess he will be back on his flight to Ukraine and return to the shitshow he belongs in.


What’s about Russian beggars?
Putin begs drones from Iran. He begs dumb ammo from North Korea, foods from China? Feeling no shame?

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## ZeGerman

S10 said:


> How's the war in Afghanistan with all those supreme NATO technology?


Can we stop acting like the taliban ran off Nato militarily or some other nonsense?

The coalition did not lose a single battle, and military losses were extremely low for controlling well more then half of a country with the geography and tribalism of afghanistan.






Taliban was actively avoiding fighting coalition head on. Their main strength was mainly patience and endurance. Knowing the europeans/americans never planned to stay their forever. 

Furthermore, we gave the Afghans more then a fighting chance to decide their own future. (Daughters going to school, no executions in stadiums) ANA was trained longer and received way more weapons and funding then Ukraine…yet they just had no will/heart to fight for these things. Running away as soon as Daddy Nato wasnt there to hold their hands.

You cannot help someone who doesnt want to be helped. Eventually you tire of throwing so many billions into a pile of shit 💩 .

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## Viet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605568254818144256

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Stranagor

Viet said:


> Putin’s military strategy 2023:
> 
> Increasing the number of fighting soldiers to 1.5 million men
> 
> All money to military without any restrictions
> 
> Arming nuclear forces with new types of missiles and hypersonic weapons
> 
> More powers to FSB and security apparatus
> 
> Putin is like a poker player that is boxed into the corner so he goes all in.



Very much like North Korean Songun strategy. 

Avoiding sanctions like Iran, building military like North Korea... 

Putin has chosen the league he wants his country to be in.


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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So typical of the Zionated States of America. AIPAC called all of the supposedly 'lawmakers' into that chamber and demanded that they give the Zelensky puppet consistent standing ovation, much the same way they gave to BitchJamin Satanyahu. Even senile Biden didn't get as much ovation as Zelensky puppet and Satanyahu got it from that puppet Congress.



What's with the angry rhetoric? This is not the tone of a winning foot - soldier. You talk like a novice al-shabaab militant whom Putin annihilated scores of the likes elsewhere in not so distant past. 

Russia's Orthodox propaganda aside (to galvanize people around the war effort), this is a secular war of resources, domination and control. Here, you are bundling your innate racism and anti-Semitism with a very secular geopolitical war which has nothing to do with the ideology you promote.



thetutle said:


> Its like Stalin giving a speech. they wont stop clapping.



It does not happen often. Actually, very rarely, if you follow C-SPAN. So, the analogy is baseless.


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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> 40 billion is peanuts. To put it into perspective
> 
> US defence budget is approximately 780 billons in 2022. ~1/19 of US defence budget, 40 billions is a bit smaller than South Korean Defence Budget (at 48 Billions) and slightly higher than Defence Budget of Australia (at 32 Billions)
> 
> Christian Dior, the make up manufacture company in Paris, have an operation revenue of 53.1 billions. Compare to the biggest in Fortune 500 - Walmart, Walmart have an operational revenue of 572 billion.
> 
> A single day Economic Activities in the US worth 68 billons on average.


Also, most of the weapons provided are stockpile. Those weapons will be used in military exercise, or just expired anyway.

Good advertisement, I would say. It's indeed very cruel, but potential buyers definitely excited, and satisfied with HIMARS.

After all, weapons are used for killing.

40 billions to torn apart a great power, it's damn cheap.


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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> Nope, Bani Israel returned to Israel after those 40 years.


the question is wasn't the punishment for disobeying God was 40 year of wandering in Sinai desert and then wandering around the earth till judgement day are emergent of savior ?
Bani Israel was not supposed to wander Sinai dessert for eternity


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## jhungary

vi-va said:


> Also, most of the weapons provided are stockpile. Those weapons will be used in military exercise, or just expired.
> 
> Good advertisement, I would say. It's indeed very cruel, but potential buyers definitely excited, and satisfied with HIMARS.
> 
> After all, weapons are used for killing.
> 
> 40 billions to torn apart a great power, it's damn cheap.


Yeah, I would say LM probably earn back that 40 billions from weapon sale alone, all thanks to Ukrainian Military.

Probably the one of the 2 company that comes out ahead, the other being Bayraktar

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## vi-va

Viet said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605568254818144256


Money Walks Bullshit Talks


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## ZeGerman

West needs to step up and provide more then single digit military aid….if they want to end this faster instead of dragging this war on.

It is clear Putin digged himself in a hole. He cannot retreat back without something to show for. In meantime…Any alternative to his power did not step up (or simply fell out of a window). Save perhaps the Wagner leader which is even worse replacement for Putin.

The russians in the meantime act like good cannon fodder to the Tsar. Its insane to see them complaining and grumbling (not on the atrocities committed on their ukranian brothers but purely selfishly)…., but still form the next scout/wave to attack. It is clear 100.000 casualties is not enough to get some sense into them.

Stop sending this 1 MLRS here and there.
Give ukraine enough to fill several artillery brigades and pack them with cluster munition, long range munitions, full drone/radar/satellite intel.



EU is just being the hesitating, pacifistic, short sighted (next voting term!) bunch like so often. Which explains the weak reponse.

Usa seems to be more content to drag this out? It will demolish russia fully, weaken eu (and make them more dependant on Usa).
Or maybe they feared an afghanistan repeat (throwing military aid to a losing party)??

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> Yeah, I would say LM probably earn back that 40 billions from weapon sale alone, all thanks to Ukrainian Military.
> 
> Probably the one of the 2 company that comes out ahead, the other being Bayraktar


LM needs a whole truck of fine champagne for the annual meeting. 

I guess Wall Street made a lot of money if not more than LM from the Euro exchange volatility.


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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> West needs to step up and provide more then single digit military aid….if they want to end this faster instead of dragging this war on.
> 
> It is clear Putin digged himself in a hole. He cannot retreat back without something to show for. In meantime…Any alternative to his power did not step up (or simply fell out of a window). Save perhaps the Wagner leader which is even worse replacement for Putin.
> 
> The russians in the meantime act like good cannon fodder to the Tsar. Its insane to see them complaining and grumbling (not on the atrocities committed on their ukranian brothers but purely selfishly)…., but still form the next scout/wave to attack. It is clear 100.000 casualties is not enough to get some sense into them.
> 
> Stop sending this 1 MLRS here and there.
> Give ukraine enough to fill several artillery brigades and pack them with cluster munition, long range munitions, full drone/radar/satellite intel.
> 
> 
> 
> EU is just being the hesitating, pacifistic, short sighted (next voting term!) bunch like so often. Which explains the weak reponse.
> 
> Usa seems to be more content to drag this out? It will demolish russia fully, weaken eu (and make them more dependant on Usa).
> Or maybe they feared an afghanistan repeat (throwing military aid to a losing party)??


Watch out for Prigozhin, der chief of Wagner private hooligan group. He has direct access to Putin. He has direct access to Russia weapons stockpile. He has own army, the second largest.
Should anything happen to Putin, like falling down the stairs, Prigozhin could take over the Kremlin.


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## Battlion25

ZeGerman said:


> Can we stop acting like the taliban ran off Nato militarily or some other nonsense?
> 
> The coalition did not lose a single battle, and military losses were extremely low for controlling well more then half of a country with the geography and tribalism of afghanistan.
> 
> View attachment 907372
> 
> 
> Taliban was actively avoiding fighting coalition head on. Their main strength was mainly patience and endurance. Knowing the europeans/americans never planned to stay their forever.



You know what is funny? that people actully believe in the casualty numbers the Americans have been presenting for the last 5-6 decades which is laughable and low IQ that some don't question it example these who consume mainstream media.

Example the Americans have been claiming around 10k to 20k KIA in Vietnam but decades later it was proven to be 200.000+ US KIA in action in that 10 year war.

What the Americans/NATO do is they hire their armed forces as private contractors so that they are not responsible for sharing casuality numbers..

To this day some actully believe Allied forces only lost 7k+ in Afghanistan which is extremely laughable where as the numbers released by the IEA is the real estimation which is around 150.000+ Allied forces + 300.000 ANA and ANP losses and on the other side around 500.000 IEA losses thru out the course of the 20 year conflict. These are the real realistic numbers but due to propaganda they will never release the true allied forces casualities because it would cause uproar but as you may know war does one thing which is kill combatants on all sides and the more there is engagements the more there is loss of life which is normal.

The 100.000 losses on both sides in the Ukraine war is realistic numbers. When you have a large conventional engagements across such a vaste lands casualities happen and if they didn't then whatever is happening there is not war but rather a movie is being shoot there.

There is a mathematical probabilities in conventional engagements when you factor in the amount of battles, lines, skirmishes, ambushes, counterattacks or offensives etc etc if you count the amount that occured in line with the numbers being presented in anywhere the US has been active is not only bullshxt but filmsy especially in Ukraine

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## Battlion25

Viet said:


> Watch out for Prigozhin, der chief of Wagner private hooligan group. He has direct access to Putin. He has direct access to Russia weapons stockpile. He has own army, the second largest.
> Should anything happen to Putin, like falling down the stairs, Prigozhin could take over the Kremlin.
> 
> View attachment 907384



I don't think his army is strong enough to takeover the Kremlin


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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> HD prövar inte målet om nätvåldtäkter
> 
> 
> Högsta domstolen kommer inte att pröva målet där en 41-årig man från Norduppland dömts som skyldig till flera fall av våldtäkt via nätet. Både mannen och offren hade överklagat hovrättsdomen, men HD har nu beslutat att inte ge prövningstillstånd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.svt.se
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (in Swedish)



Well the issue here is definitions. This would just be called "indecent dealing with a minor" in anglo countries, kind of stuff Scott Ritter did. Except that he didnt do it to a minor but to person he believed to be a minor. 

Obviously the swedes take a hard line in dealing with such sickos.


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## thetutle

I think there should be no M1 Abrams for ukraine yet. I dont think they are practical. Yes a couple of thousand of them if utilised properly would devastate the Russians, like totally devastate them, but you need massive logistics efforts to supply fuel for them to the front line and massive amounts of mechanics that are working out of harms way. and its just no doable. They are made for a modern highly equipped army. I would try to send every single Russian made tank that exists in europe first, and only after that start with French and then German tanks. Then if all else fails try with M1's if the capability to operate them exists. 

We dot want to see massive amounts of M1's or Leopards in Russian hands. It looks bad and it will give Russians an insight onto sensitive technologies possibly.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606206949183332352


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## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> One simple law: Do it mandatory to every dumbshit leader fight in every stupid war, and they will do their best to avoid wars, instead encourage it as cowards to receive fresh American dollars.



That's a good proposition, which if had taken place, Putin would have hardly dared to invade Ukraine, to begin with. Then, there would be no ensuing war of resistance and independence.



BHAN85 said:


> Common people who defend leaders hidden in bunkers as they and their families die for foreign interests doesnt respect themselves.



I do not think Russians are dying in foreign Ukraine for the sake of some foreign interests.

They are, at best, dying for a crony-capitalist authoritarian regime. 

All the leading Russian figures families are safe and sound in their respective Western host nations.

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## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> It's ok, Zelensky is a better leader than Putin, or at least, more brave.
> 
> But if you die in the war, it doesnt matter to you. That war should never have happened.
> 
> It happens because Ukraine elite receive fresh American dollars.
> 
> Common people should not give a fck if their gov is under Moscow or Washington rule, they will get the same salary in the same jobs, and even if they are poorer under Moscow rule, it's better to be poor and alive, than rich and dead.
> 
> Brainwashed slaves seems to dont understand that money is not useful when you die.



I am pretty sure the Russian elite receive more USD than the Ukrainian elite. 

This makes those Russians going out and dying in Ukraine suckers of the century.



Viet said:


> Putin says Russia S300 is superior.
> the US Patriot missile defense system is old, nothing to worry about. Russia will “knack” it. Putin, the optimist.
> 
> Ukraine troops will be trained in Germany on Patriot.



Putin speaks the truth. 

For Putin, there's nothing to worry about.

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## reflecthofgeismar

TopGun786 said:


> Orcource apartheid state of Isra-el is highly unstable. It is a tiny rouge nation that receives at least 3.3$ aid from the USA. That is more than 9 million USD per day (Yes 9M$/day).
> Basically, it is just a camp of the USA and Western powers in the middle east to keep busy with Arab and other Muslim countries. Once the USA withdraws its aid and support this bunch of white settlers cannot stand even for one week.


Funny thing, that Israelis were in the most crucial war, the 1st, alone on their feet, they had to take what the British left and buy from European/US scrap market and Czechslovakia with annoying circumstances.
The Arabs had better stuff left and were more.
The Americans were supporting Israel since 1960s, because Soviets did the same to Arabs before.
So both - the US and the USSR had their "useful idiots" to strengthen their influence.
Before the Americans the French were buddies with Israelis until 1967.
The Arabs couldn't fight a war without foreign help too, they would fight with spear & arrow again.
Can't produce 1 thing of value.
These tiny rogue state (your/many muslims, rightwings/leftists opinion) kicked Arabs left & right.
So Arabs are even more useless than weak tiny Kikes...









1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Six-Day War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





PS the US AID is spend on 74-76% on US made products.
Existence of Israel spares the US 150.000 fighting troops, you know how much money they save through small Israel?!
And the other 3/4 of the AID, the US has directy a word to say if they wanna have Israeli technology and to whom they wanna sell it.
Israel is used as a weapons dealer for countries which can't be delievered directly by the US bc of politics.
Israeli modifications of US equipment, especially F-16 & F-15 series saved US much money in improvements.
Give Arabs AID and they will buy & burn your flag.
I remember seeing Palestinians, who wouldn't be even born or at least surviving without EU/US aid and celebrating 9/11.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606082825400238083

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## Ali_Baba

thetutle said:


> I think there should be no M1 Abrams for ukraine yet. I dont think they are practical. Yes a couple of thousand of them if utilised properly would devastate the Russians, like totally devastate them, but you need massive logistics efforts to supply fuel for them to the front line and massive amounts of mechanics that are working out of harms way. and its just no doable. They are made for a modern highly equipped army. I would try to send every single Russian made tank that exists in europe first, and only after that start with French and then German tanks. Then if all else fails try with M1's if the capability to operate them exists.
> 
> We dot want to see massive amounts of M1's or Leopards in Russian hands. It looks bad and it will give Russians an insight onto sensitive technologies possibly.



Given Pakistans current balance of payments and Foreign Exchange reserve issues, and stand off with IMF, maybe the Americans could use some of the aid money to purchase Pakistani T-80UD's and give them to Ukraine?

Pakistan can backfill the T-80UD's with Al-Khalid II's or VT-4's ? Everyone is a winner ....


----------



## sammuel

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Funny thing, that Israelis were in the most crucial war, the 1st, alone on their feet, they had to take what the British left and buy from European/US scrap market and Czechslovakia with annoying circumstances.
> The Arabs had better stuff left and were more.
> The Americans were supporting Israel since 1960s, because Soviets did the same to Arabs before.
> So both - the US and the USSR had their "useful idiots" to strengthen their influence.
> Before the Americans the French were buddies with Israelis until 1967.
> The Arabs couldn't fight a war without foreign help too, they would fight with spear & arrow again.
> Can't produce 1 thing of value.
> These tiny rogue state (your/many muslims, rightwings/leftists opinion) kicked Arabs left & right.
> So Arabs are even more useless than weak tiny Kikes...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Six-Day War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Indeed .

Many here seems to make the mistake that the West helped Israel when it just got it's independence. That is not the case. In both are hardest wars - 48 and 67 , we stood alone with no foreign power supporting us ,

Very few countries agreed to provide us any weapons because of the arb oil embargo. France was an exception in 56 cause of their interest in the Suez canal , but they too stopped sending us the mirage planes after they where bought and paid for.

We practically had to build some of our planes from parts and pieces that where not under the embargo and some stolen blue prints of the mirage plane.









IAI Nesher - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





At the same time the soviets supplied the Arab countries with anything they wanted.


Only after 67, when the Americans realized we can stand on our feet and fend for ourselves , did they agree to sell us weapons - like the F-4 fighter pane they started to deliver in 1968.

~

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## Stranagor

Fire engulfs Russian military facility in latest mysterious blaze


The fire raged for more than four hours at an army facility in the east of the capital. It came amid a spate of mystery infernos with suspicions that sabotage is a cause of some of the blazes.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## ZeGerman

Battlion25 said:


> You know what is funny? that people actully believe in the casualty numbers the Americans have been presenting for the last 5-6 decades which is laughable and low IQ that some don't question it example these who consume mainstream media.


Well Even tenfolding that number is “small change”. 
But you are wrong anyway. 
Coinciding with lowering stationed troops, all coalition members saw lower casualties (from already very low baseline). 

These are from countries where every single death made big news in several news sources. These are countries with much more freedom of press https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

you cannot hide it as well and as easily. 
This is all based on logical though and multiple sources. You on other hand get your info from conspiracy websites?



Battlion25 said:


> Example the Americans have been claiming around 10k to 20k KIA in Vietnam but decades later it was proven to be 200.000+ US KIA in action in that 10 year war.


It was 20 years and the 58.000 figure is going around for very long.
Show me proof of this 200.000 kia source…



Battlion25 said:


> What the Americans/NATO do is they hire their armed forces as private contractors so that they are not responsible for sharing casuality numbers..


Yes and there are anti-government media and journalists digging into such numbers….






List of private contractor deaths in Afghanistan - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org







Battlion25 said:


> To this day some actully believe Allied forces only lost 7k+ in Afghanistan which is extremely laughable where as the numbers released by the IEA is the real estimation which is around 150.000+ Allied forces + 300.000 ANA and ANP losses and on the other side around 500.000 IEA losses thru out the course of the 20 year conflict.


The islamic emirate of aghanistan is a bogus source. Speak out against them and you get shot in a stadium.

On other hand we have scott ritter free to throw russian propaganda around. 




Battlion25 said:


> These are the real realistic numbers but due to propaganda they will never release the true allied forces casualities because it would cause uproar but as you may know war does one thing which is kill combatants on all sides and the more there is engagements the more there is loss of life which is normal.
> 
> The 100.000 losses on both sides in the Ukraine war is realistic numbers. When you have a large conventional engagements across such a vaste lands casualities happen and if they didn't then whatever is happening there is not war but rather a movie is being shoot there.
> 
> There is a mathematical probabilities in conventional engagements when you factor in the amount of battles, lines, skirmishes, ambushes, counterattacks or offensives etc etc if you count the amount that occured in line with the numbers being presented in anywhere the US has been active is not only bullshxt but filmsy especially in Ukraine



Afghanistan was low intensity insurgency https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...a-fight-against-heat-boredom/article25297446/ and for latter years most of fighting went through ANA, with only a skeleton crew remaining of coalition presence. 

My country the dutch were there as well. Lost only a handfull of men…but my god was it expensive to have a military presence on other side of the world and pump so many funds into nation building and ANA whom preferred to embezzle it. 
the voters wanted it to end not because of “losing troops/weapons” but purely to stop throwing money into a bottomless pit.

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## Battlion25

ZeGerman said:


> Well Even tenfolding that number is “small change”.
> But you are wrong anyway.
> Coinciding with lowering stationed troops, all coalition members saw lower casualties (from already very low baseline).
> 
> These are from countries where every single death made big news in several news sources. These are countries with much more freedom of press https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index
> 
> you cannot hide it as well and as easily.
> This is all based on logical though and multiple sources. You on other hand get your info from conspiracy websites?
> 
> 
> It was 20 years and the 58.000 figure is going around for very long.
> Show me proof of this 200.000 kia source…
> 
> 
> Yes and there are anti-government media and journalists digging into such numbers….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of private contractor deaths in Afghanistan - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic emirate of aghanistan is a bogus source. Speak out against them and you get shot in a stadium.
> 
> On other hand we have scott ritter free to throw russian propaganda around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Afghanistan was low intensity insurgency https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...a-fight-against-heat-boredom/article25297446/ and for latter years most of fighting went through ANA, with only a skeleton crew remaining of coalition presence.
> 
> My country the dutch were there as well. Lost only a handfull of men…but my god was it expensive to have a military presence on other side of the world and pump so many funds into nation building and ANA whom preferred to embezzle it.
> the voters wanted it to end not because of “losing troops/weapons” but purely to stop throwing money into a bottomless pit.



It was not low intensity insurgency? Do you know what even low intensity insurgency means..

India, Pakistan and Iran you can also add Turkey are going thru low intensity insurgency where society is functioning normal and as per usual but there is low insurgency..

ANA has admitted losing upwards 400.000 + that is not low intensity my friend..

NATO or the allied forces have lost a bunch of forces there 150k+ minimum and that is extremely low balling where maximum can push towards 250k..

The Islamic Emirate didn't even lie about it's own casualities and they have no reasons to lie. War is war casualties are just the norm and they were high amongst ANA, ANP and also IEA itself and the allied forces but instead for the allied forces the KIA were private contractors not required to register and they saw them as connon fodders and never registred to not upset the local view on the war.. 

There has been 20 fighting seasons meaning from April to October it is called fighting season where as most of the fights were frozen in the winter months

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Well Even tenfolding that number is “small change”.
> But you are wrong anyway.
> Coinciding with lowering stationed troops, all coalition members saw lower casualties (from already very low baseline).
> 
> These are from countries where every single death made big news in several news sources. These are countries with much more freedom of press https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index
> 
> you cannot hide it as well and as easily.
> This is all based on logical though and multiple sources. You on other hand get your info from conspiracy websites?
> 
> 
> It was 20 years and the 58.000 figure is going around for very long.
> Show me proof of this 200.000 kia source…
> 
> 
> Yes and there are anti-government media and journalists digging into such numbers….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of private contractor deaths in Afghanistan - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic emirate of aghanistan is a bogus source. Speak out against them and you get shot in a stadium.
> 
> On other hand we have scott ritter free to throw russian propaganda around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Afghanistan was low intensity insurgency https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...a-fight-against-heat-boredom/article25297446/ and for latter years most of fighting went through ANA, with only a skeleton crew remaining of coalition presence.
> 
> My country the dutch were there as well. Lost only a handfull of men…but my god was it expensive to have a military presence on other side of the world and pump so many funds into nation building and ANA whom preferred to embezzle it.
> the voters wanted it to end not because of “losing troops/weapons” but purely to stop throwing money into a bottomless pit.


lol, we lost 150,000 + in Afghansitan........Right.......

There are probably less than 1,5 mil soldiers in NATO served in Afghanistan that 20 year, that mean 1 in 10 served there were killed. 

I was there lol, I don't remember losing 14 of my own soldiers.......I was in charge of a Company Size Force of 143 men by the way...

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## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> lol, we lost 150,000 + in Afghansitan........Right.......
> 
> There are probably less than 1,5 mil soldiers in NATO served in Afghanistan that 20 year, that mean 1 in 10 served there were killed.
> 
> I was there lol, I don't remember losing 14 of my own soldiers.......I was in charge of a Company Size Force of 143 men by the way...



150k is extremely low balling by all means............... How do you explain the ANA losing 400.000 +

Come with something that is intellectually understandable otherwise Get outta here..

They fed these figures to the laymen via Mainstream media not to these who understand war and it's mechanism...

The Vietnam numbers cover up was politically motivated and the same with Afghanistan..

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## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> 150k is extremely low balling by all means............... How do you explain the ANA losing 400.000 +
> 
> Come with to something that is intellectually understandable otherwise Get outta here..
> 
> They fed these figures to the laymen via Mainstream media not to these who understand war and it's mechanism


I can't explain something that *DID NOT* happened.

Dude, there are no way I can stop you from believing that kind of BS. I mean, I can't stop people from being an idiot.

And lol, you claim NATO lost 150,000 + and ANA loses 400,000 + without any proof and I am "intellectually impaired".. lol good one. I don't think at any point ANA have 400,000 men to lose....Even with inflated rank, they probably are a < 300,000 force...

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## K_Bin_W

PakistaniandProud said:


> That interview was not "30 years ago". It was about 11 years old at the max. Pakistan has had nuclear weapons for a total of 24 years.
> 
> Here's the source of that interview:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not mentioning Pakistan again doesn't mean much. He stated what he did. *"Unstable Islamic countries shouldn't have nukes*" - his perspective, likewise what we think of Israel. Doesn't change the fact he mentioned what he had.



Even a stable democracy MUST not have nukes, it's one of the most dangerous mixes in the world.


----------



## zartosht

Those are the % of civilians killed (vs. Military) in some past wars

*The percentage in ukraine is only about %2 percent. *

Now look at some of the wars western terror states have waged on humanity. And the genocidal rates of civilian massacres numbering in the millions

In ww2 , vietnam and korea. The US had deliberate tactics of mass bombing civilians to force the enemy army into a surrender. They have genocided millions. Including deliberately nuking japans civilian population

This tells you what an evil entity this nato is. If nato didnt have the control over propaganda narrative that they do, they literally make nazis and stalin even look like boy scouts by comparison

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## Ali_Baba

Putin FINALLY refers to Ukrainian invasion as a WAR


The Russian tyrant has always labelled the bloody ten-month conflict a 'special military operation' and banned any reference to the true nature of his barbaric campaign.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Putin should be arrested for breaking the special operations laws!!!!

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## ZeGerman

Battlion25 said:


> It was not low intensity insurgency? Do you know what even low intensity insurgency means..
> 
> India, Pakistan and Iran you can also add Turkey are going thru low intensity insurgency where society is functioning normal and as per usual but there is low insurgency..
> 
> ANA has admitted losing upwards 400.000 + that is not low intensity my friend..
> 
> NATO or the allied forces have lost a bunch of forces there 150k+ minimum and that is extremely low balling where maximum can push towards 250k..
> 
> The Islamic Emirate didn't even lie about it's own casualities and they have no reasons to lie. War is war casualties are just the norm and they were high amongst ANA, ANP and also IEA itself and the allied forces but instead for the allied forces the KIA were private contractors not required to register and they saw them as connon fodders and never registred to not upset the local view on the war..
> 
> There has been 20 fighting seasons meaning from April to October it is called fighting season where as most of the fights were frozen in the winter months


IAE has all reason to lie. To make their fight seem like an epic standoff. Where they killed scores of Nato. Extremely biased source. 


Those openly speak against them are shot.

On west side we have anti government media and many digging journalists (kicking out presidents from power)…yet they somehow “missed” tens of thousands of dead. 

You have no clue about freedom of press in the west and how low of a endurance/tolerance our current societies have for casualties. I have given plenty of third party sources as well as simple deduction and logic. If you choose to believe fairytales so be it.

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## Titanium100

ZeGerman said:


> IAE has all reason to lie. To make their fight seem like an epic standoff. Where they killed scores of Nato. Extremely biased source.
> 
> 
> Those openly speak against them are shot.
> 
> On west side we have anti government media and many digging journalists (kicking out presidents from power)…yet they somehow “missed” tens of thousands of dead.
> 
> You have no clue about freedom of press in the west and how low of a endurance/tolerance our current societies have for casualties. I have given plenty of third party sources as well as simple deduction and logic. If you choose to believe fairytales so be it.



Mambo jumbo press freedom you don't believe in that shxt yourself..

Western media is a fuking bee-hive and currently the worst type of bee-hive everything is scripted into one narrative like a perfectly structured bee-hive.. To put it shortly it is a freaking echo chamber of epic proportions and that is even an understatement..

Atleast IEA's take mirrors reality nothing to wild about it...

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## yuba

Stranagor said:


> That's a good proposition, which if had taken place, Putin would have hardly dared to invade Ukraine, to begin with. Then, there would be no ensuing war of resistance and independence.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not think Russians are dying in foreign Ukraine for the sake of some foreign interests.
> 
> They are, at best, dying for a crony-capitalist authoritarian regime.
> 
> All the leading Russian figures families are safe and sound in their respective Western host nations.


Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight
They leave that role to the poor
song by Black Sabbath 50 years old still same shit going on


----------



## Titanium100

Are tanks slowly becoming something of the past post this war?

Let me know your takes


----------



## 925boy

Titanium100 said:


> Are tanks slowly becoming something of the past post this war?
> 
> Let me know your takes


Tanks are becoming a thing of the past for countries at war that cant replace or/and fix them fast enough- and this is why Ukraine is using alot more pickup trucks on the frontline, which is obviously more risky, because they are less protected, and Ukraine is asking for "western tanks", so even NATO and Ukraine know tanks are relevant, but also Orynx tells us that Russia has lost 8500 tanks and military vehicles- so how then are Russian troops today still using and riding around with T72/T90/T6x etc tanks and BTRs and BMPs, etc? War is logistics!!


----------



## Titanium100

925boy said:


> Tanks are becoming a thing of the past for countries at war that cant replace or/and fix them fast enough- and this is why Ukraine is using alot more pickup trucks on the frontline, which is obviously more risky, because they are less protected, and Ukraine is asking for "western tanks", so even NATO and Ukraine know tanks are relevant, but also Orynx tells us that Russia has lost 8500 tanks and military vehicles- so how then are Russian troops today still using and riding around with T72/T90/T6x etc tanks and BTRs and BMPs, etc? War is logistics!!



Attacking with or charging with tanks is somewhat a thing of the past tho but in regards to defensive setup tanks can be used effectively

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## zectech

ZeGerman said:


> It was 20 years and the 58.000 figure is going around for very long.
> Show me proof of this 200.000 kia source…








Putinite: "Here is the proof that a "billion", no a zillion! Americans died in Vietnam. To be my copium. Everyone who died in Vietnam is named here. There have been no scandal after scandal of families who found out that their loved one is not listed from those that died _in _Vietnam. (They have added names from those that died years after from wounds sustained in Vietnam) So count how many names on this wall and find the truth of the number of Muricans! that died in Vietnam. I'm guessing it is greater than 10 million for my copium. Putin is muh god-king!"

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## alimobin memon

zectech said:


> Putinite: "Here is the proof that a "billion", no a zillion! Americans died in Vietnam. To be my copium. Everyone who died in Vietnam is named here. There have been no scandal after scandal of families who found out that their loved one is not listed from those that died _in _Vietnam. (They have added names from those that died years after from wounds sustained in Vietnam) So count how many names on this wall and find the truth of the number of Muricans! that died in Vietnam. I'm guessing it is greater than 10 million for my copium. Putin is muh god-king!"


30 year war and lost it yet 58k is the number why by explanation itself is fake. Its proly 200+

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin FINALLY refers to Ukrainian invasion as a WAR
> 
> 
> The Russian tyrant has always labelled the bloody ten-month conflict a 'special military operation' and banned any reference to the true nature of his barbaric campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Putin should be arrested for breaking the special operations laws!!!!


I said at the beginning he should stop this special military ops shit. Call it out as it is “war”. It’s shorter. 3 letters. W a r. Or Putin is an illiterate?


----------



## zectech

zartosht said:


> View attachment 907427
> 
> 
> Those are the % of civilians killed (vs. Military) in some past wars
> 
> *The percentage in ukraine is only about %2 percent. *
> 
> Now look at some of the wars western terror states have waged on humanity. And the genocidal rates of civilian massacres numbering in the millions
> 
> In ww2 , vietnam and korea. The US had deliberate tactics of mass bombing civilians to force the enemy army into a surrender. They have genocided millions. Including deliberately nuking japans civilian population
> 
> This tells you what an evil entity this nato is. If nato didnt have the control over propaganda narrative that they do, they literally make nazis and stalin even look like boy scouts by comparison



Stupidest statistic. A nation could invade a nation, kill one civilian, then leave without a fight and be at the top of the list. Genocide is decimating the population. Decimate is to kill 10% of the civilian population. Moscow has genocided many ethnic groups, some over and over again. Some to the applause of the Iranians in support of genocide. This was before the cia zionist wars in the middle east. Before George Bush started the taking out Putin regimes in the Middle East. Iran supported Moscow genocides of ethnic groups. If Iran supports this genocidal war on Ukraine, which is the continuation of the subjugation by Moscow, then Iran supports the holodomor genocide by Moscow. No people should be ruled over by those that genocided them, not Chechens, not Crimean Tatars, not Ukrainians, not Circassians (Soshi must be returned to Circassians), and not the many conquered tribes, conquered by the genocidal Romanovs and Russians.

Does Washington/London have the right to invade and annex Iraq. If not, neither does Moscow have any privileges to do that to Ukraine.

Revenge! Revenge! Revenge! against those nations that supported Moscow genociding the Chechens in the 90s. Since Iran supported the ACTUAL genocide of Chechens, REVENGE against Iran. Bomb pro-genocide Iran. So McCain was right and proper in wanting to bomb Iran, by Iranian standards.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606290342474547201








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606313454578671622

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605952094535446528

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## zectech

CCP Trolls:






Iranian trolls: "Revenge" against white Europe for cia wars. If you oppose Trumper Russia, then revenge against you!

Russia is a genocidal settler nation ruling over minorities via terrorism and authoritarianism. It needs to be broken up. The only reason the SSRs were let go was because the communists allowed that in their constitution. The Republics in Russia were not allowed to have freedom. Orcs are gonna orc. Russians returned to being Russians ASAP after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Trump dislikes Ukraine not being controlled by Moscow. Trump dislikes the EU. Trump wants Putin regimes in Europe. Trump and Putin are on the same team. Simply listen to Trumper Tucker "Russian Ministry of Propaganda" Carlson. Listen to the Trumper Russian Republicans in Congress that want to block aid to Ukraine and are on Team Trump in being pro-Putin. These individuals are not stupid, for knowing that if Trump and Putin take out Europe and make it Putinites and run by the Russian mafia, the nightmare plan of Trump would take over Europe via Putin. Europe has been the block to war with Iran and China. The dupes are the Putin supporters in the anti-imperialist camp. The Republican cia party that did the cia wars in the middle east back Putin covertly and overtly. The DC Beltway neoliberal Democrats support Ukraine and the EU.






Tory Conservatives are backed by Putin. New Labour Tony Blair backed Putin in a Russian genocide of Chechens. NATO EUROPE hates Putin because Putin is trying to destroy Europe/EU. Conservative UK and US and their fellow frauds in the US and US are buddies with Putin.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606196551226793984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606194740084453377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606191107607474176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606326186321158147

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## Viet

Titanium100 said:


> Are tanks slowly becoming something of the past post this war?
> 
> Let me know your takes


No it’s not. Tank is still the king on battlefield. Same for artillery. It’s just Russian tanks have little to no chance against modern western anti missiles. Russia military is obviously filled by propaganda, corruption and deceit.

Once Ukraine receives Patriots missiles Putin will not dare to send old Soviet bombers to terrorize Ukraine population. Ukraine air defense will shoot down those bombers like flying fat ducks.

Russia failing with tanks and bombers in Ukraine does not mean tanks and bombers are obsolete.

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## Reashot Xigwin

The Russians really done mess up big time. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606264548763357185

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## Reashot Xigwin

AZOV pushing back Russian Nazis from Bakhmut.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606041777655275520
Putin still think Russian made junk are equal to superior western technology. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605983877784223745

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606209791663263746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606209798390763520

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## Reashot Xigwin

Another Cigarette accident in moscow.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606393918832222229


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606314804410458112

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## zectech

Mullahs and Assad support these cities being bombed:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605857115758813185
Putins reign of terror began before the Bush started wars in the Middle East against Russian client states. Putins client states back Putins reign of terror. Iran is giving out for free every justifiable reason for it to be bombed by Putinite Trump.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> Well the issue here is definitions. This would just be called "indecent dealing with a minor" in anglo countries, kind of stuff Scott Ritter did. Except that he didnt do it to a minor but to person he believed to be a minor.
> 
> Obviously the swedes take a hard line in dealing with such sickos.


Yes! Sweden uses a wide definition of rape.
Julian Assange was wanted for rape.
He had sex with a woman, he suggested sex without a condom, which was refused, but sex with a condom was OK.
Hours later, he started to have sex with the woman in her sleep. When she woke up, he was inside her, without her consent, and without a condom.

That is a clear case of rape in Sweden.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606364791391518738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606376182945091604

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606376182945091604

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606376182945091604

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## Reashot Xigwin

Remember it's morally acceptable to demonize Russia.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606347049284165632

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## Reashot Xigwin

It's a christmas miracle everybody. Rogopigs may lost his cock and balls after this. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606315195198062593

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## zectech

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Remember it's morally acceptable to demonize Russia.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606347049284165632


I said on the original Ukraine War thread, this is Russia's primary mission to destroy Europe. To make it Trumper-Netanyahu crazies. Iran backs this for "revenge". And China backs this for "kill whitey". Backs turning peace-nik Europeans into Trumper racist Qanon cia-Pompeo trolls.









Netanyahu's Unholy Alliance With Europe's 'Anti-Semitic' Far Right


Europe's nationalist parties are rushing to support formerly reviled Israel as an ally against the 'scourge' of Islamisation.




www.newsweek.com





Trump and Netanyahu are tasked to turn Europe into racist retards - the same that you find at Trump rallies - ie turn them into Russians.

If Putin makes Europeans impoverished, starved, without electricity, with social unrest... the Putin goal is to have Europe turn pro-Russia because "Europe failed their people". This is the agenda. It was obvious in February. It is obvious today.

The proxy war is not between Russia and the US, it is between Russia and the European Union.

Merkel: Putin Wants to Destroy Europe​


https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/merkel/2022/06/07/id/1073404/



Biden and the Beltway Democrats see the writing on the wall of this dystopian Russian plan. And are backing Europe.



Jonathan Swan: Trump Already Preparing to Purge DOJ, FBI, and Pentagon to Install Loyalists in 2025



Trumps see this:









Inside Putin’s ‘torture conveyor belt’ prisons where inmates are ‘raped and mutilated’


Vladimir Putin has been accused of overseeing a brutal prison system.




nypost.com





And wants rape and torture to happen to Trump political enemies.









Trump Threatens Journalists With Prison Rape for Not Revealing Supreme Court Leak (Video)


“When this person realizes he’s going to be the bride of another prisoner very shortly he will…'tell you exactly who that leaker is!'" Trump warned




www.yahoo.com













Trump Keeps Musing About Journalists Being Raped in Prison -- He's Not Joking


A knowledgeable source tells Rolling Stone that the former president has wondered how he might be able to jail reporters if he retakes the White House




www.rollingstone.com













Crowd Cheers and Laughs When Trump Threatens Journalists With Prison Rape


The crowd reveled in Trump’s sick idea to bully members of the press into revealing their sources




www.rollingstone.com





This is why Iranians and Chinese are pure evil for their support of Russia. Iran and China have joined the Trump agenda.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606408471271940103

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606373942146596865

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## BHAN85

aviator_fan said:


> The 20 million citizens are not idiots. They have the right to choose whose puppet they want to be. Thats not for you to decide.


Tell that to thousands of soldiers dead and their families, both, Russian and Ukrainian.

It's a nonsense war.

I prefer live in a sovereign country than in a Moscow puppet protectorate, but that doesnt deserve the death of a single one person.

Russia is stronger, Russian ruled over Ukraine until 2014, and life was easy, food and heat from cheap gas, it's enough. And anything is better than to be dead. Maybe I'm a coward, but I think Ukraine must surrended the first day before war.



jhungary said:


> Well, so, if we went by your logic, if it was US or NATO who invaded Ukraine, should Ukraine folded and become US puppet because it's better to live like a puppet than dying for your own identity?? I mean you cannot support one side and denounce the other if you think it's all the same because no one cares. Better live like a puppet than die rich, am I right?
> 
> I mean, you may not give a f.ck, that does not mean people in the world should not.
> 
> As I said, I felt sorry for people who call you their "Compatriot" because you have absolutely no value to your country.


Tell that to the young Spaniards that have to emmigrate to another countries searching for job.

Patriotic feelings have no sense in West Europe in 2022.

The same to Ukrainian, it's not worth die for what politicians will rule you, I dont give a sht if my rulers are from Madrid, Moscow, NYC or Mars, they can kill themselves if they want, but any Ukrainian should emmigrate and escape from that hell if he achieve the possibility.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## BHAN85

Stranagor said:


> I am pretty sure the Russian elite receive more USD than the Ukrainian elite.
> 
> This makes those Russians going out and dying in Ukraine suckers of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin speaks the truth.
> 
> For Putin, there's nothing to worry about.


Russian elite receive dollars from energy resources.

Ukrainian elite received dollars for kill Russian speaking people in East-Ukraine, and now, for keep the war.

Anyway, it's something sad.


----------



## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> Tanks are becoming a thing of the past for countries at war that cant replace or/and fix them fast enough- and this is why Ukraine is using alot more pickup trucks on the frontline, which is obviously more risky, because they are less protected, and Ukraine is asking for "western tanks", so even NATO and Ukraine know tanks are relevant, but also Orynx tells us that Russia has lost 8500 tanks and military vehicles- so how then are Russian troops today still using and riding around with T72/T90/T6x etc tanks and BTRs and BMPs, etc? War is logistics!!


The russians riding around in tanks exactly where? .. How come Russia isnt using all this armor breaking ukrainian lines? So far theyve gained nothing sending waves of platoon sized infantry units towards certain death on a several hundred km wide frontline. Seems like they have no objective.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Poland Moves All Its MiG-29 Fulcrums to Malbork Air Base


MiG-29 Days at the Minsk Mazowiecki Base Are Over After 33 Years. The rumors have now been confirmed. For quite some time now, the Polish military




theaviationist.com





>> are the migs about to be finally retired and ”sold” to Ukraine? Will they be upgraded to operate jdams(if not already.)….

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## Beny Karachun

Hack-Hook said:


> the question is wasn't the punishment for disobeying God was 40 year of wandering in Sinai desert and then wandering around the earth till judgement day are emergent of savior ?
> Bani Israel was not supposed to wander Sinai dessert for eternity





https://embassies.gov.il/UnGeneva/AboutIsrael/history/Pages/History-Israel-Timeline.aspx



Read this. Jews weren't wandering around the earth after wandering for 40 years in the Sinai, they went back to Israel for hundreds of years until the Babylonian exile, and returned again and built the 2nd temple. All and all Jews have 3500 years of presence in Israel.

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## Horse_Rider

Beny Karachun said:


> Nope, Bani Israel returned to Israel after those 40 years.



It was only for 40 years. The interesting part is, my Jewish friends here know that and know it precisely ended in those 40 years. What more do you need to believe in Islam? Convert and get a hug from all of us and work for global peace together? 

Israel is that one country if it abandons it's policies of aggression and focuses on world peace, they can accomplish a lot working with us.



Beny Karachun said:


> I don't know much about this honestly.
> 
> Netanyahu doesn't see Pakistan as a threat.



This is untrue outside of may be a fraction. We have had Aryans / Gengiz Khan / Turks / Alexander and Punjabis influence this region's current genetics. Jews has a very little influence in that genetic makeup. You can hear conspiracy theories and "breaking news" all day from our people trying to portray as some "superior race". And we never get tired!

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## Beny Karachun

Horse_Rider said:


> It was only for 40 years. The interesting part is, my Jewish friends here know that and know it precisely ended in those 40 years. What more do you need to believe in Islam? Convert and get a hug from all of us and work for global peace together?
> 
> Israel is that one country if it abandons it's policies of aggression and focuses on world peace, they can accomplish a lot working with us.


What does that have to do with Islam? Our religion doesn't prevent us from having peace with anyone.
Meanwhile Muslims have civil wars and religious fights.
Shias vs Sunnis, Jihadists vs secular, etc etc.

Israel focuses on world peace, if you haven't paid attention the Muslim nations were the ones that started the wars against Israel and recently Israel have been signing peace/are in peace with a lot of the Arab world. Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Sudan, Morocco, Turkey, Azerbaijan and other nations in secret like Saudi Arabia and I believe Pakistan as well.



Horse_Rider said:


> This is untrue outside of may be a fraction. We have had Aryans / Gengiz Khan / Turks / Alexander and Punjabis influence this region's current genetics. Jews has a very little influence in that genetic makeup. You can hear conspiracy theories and "breaking news" all day from our people trying to portray as some "superior race". And we never get tired!


Pretty much all Jews are not 100% genetically pure. I don't know what percentage constitutes a Jew genetically, but according to belief you are Jewish only if your mother is Jewish or you converted to Judaism.


----------



## zectech

From the Russian ministry of propaganda, Tucker of Faux News.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605974580123668491
This, "if you hate Putin, you are gonna suffer", was propaganda from Tucker since February. I don't watch goblin TV, so I missed the memo. That Putin wants to destroy the EU economy is old news in Europe.


----------



## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> He had sex with a woman, he suggested sex without a condom, which was refused, but sex with a condom was OK.


Allegedly. And with a likely CIA asset. 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Hours later, he started to have sex with the woman in her sleep. When she woke up, he was inside her, without her consent, and without a condom.
> 
> That is a clear case of rape in Sweden.


It is a clear case of rape in anglo countries also. But this happened allegedly, and with a likely CIA asset. 

Its funny when you screw over the empire and then you just happen to commit a sex crime against the empires spies. Mind you a crime that relies on one word against another, All his life he was a law abiding citizen, then he turns against the empire and then turns against women and becomes a rapist (alleged). twice. hmmmm


----------



## S10

ZeGerman said:


> Can we stop acting like the taliban ran off Nato militarily or some other nonsense?
> 
> The coalition did not lose a single battle, and military losses were extremely low for controlling well more then half of a country with the geography and tribalism of afghanistan.
> 
> View attachment 907372
> 
> 
> Taliban was actively avoiding fighting coalition head on. Their main strength was mainly patience and endurance. Knowing the europeans/americans never planned to stay their forever.
> 
> Furthermore, we gave the Afghans more then a fighting chance to decide their own future. (Daughters going to school, no executions in stadiums) ANA was trained longer and received way more weapons and funding then Ukraine…yet they just had no will/heart to fight for these things. Running away as soon as Daddy Nato wasnt there to hold their hands.
> 
> You cannot help someone who doesnt want to be helped. Eventually you tire of throwing so many billions into a pile of shit 💩 .


So NATO lost to Taliban?

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## thetutle

BHAN85 said:


> I prefer live in a sovereign country than in a Moscow puppet protectorate, but that doesnt deserve the death of a single one person.


Well thats why countries have armies. because someone has calculated that keeping your sovereignty is indeed worth the death of one person. indeed, more than one. 


BHAN85 said:


> Russia is stronger, Russian ruled over Ukraine until 2014, and life was easy, food and heat from cheap gas, it's enough.


Then russia will have no problem conquering ukraine. Any day now. 


BHAN85 said:


> And anything is better than to be dead. Maybe I'm a coward, but I think Ukraine must surrended the first day before war.


this is clearly not true. Ukrainians value their freedom. More important than life. Life without freedom is no life at all. 


BHAN85 said:


> The same to Ukrainian, it's not worth die for what politicians will rule you, I dont give a sht if my rulers are from Madrid, Moscow, NYC or Mars, they can kill themselves if they want, but any Ukrainian should emmigrate and escape from that hell if he achieve the possibility.


So why does russia not surrender to NATO. It will have a better country under NATO control.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Remember it's morally acceptable to demonize Russia.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606347049284165632


Russia is very sick and desperate. It is getting hammered pretty bad to have to resort to such scare tactics, Noone in europe is scared of russia anymore, In America, noone can even find russia on a map and they certainly aren't scared.

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## Stranagor

Japanese insurers to halt ship insurance for all of Russia


Lack of coverage for war damage could have impact on Japan's LNG imports




asia.nikkei.com





Japanese insurers to halt ship insurance for all of Russia


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Not sure where the full 3500 years came from.


They just make it up. But they dont need to. The Anglo empire has given them that patch of land. that 17,000 sq/km and they will keep it until the empire says no more. Or the empire weakens.

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## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Not sure where the full 3500 years came from.





thetutle said:


> They just make it up. But they dont need to. The Anglo empire has given them that patch of land. that 17,000 sq/km and they will keep it until the empire says no more. Or the empire weakens.


Comes from the fact not all Jews were exiled and Jews always had presence in this land.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> until the Freemasonry empowered the Jews to seize the Holland in 1948.


Lol


----------



## Stranagor

zectech said:


> Stupidest statistic. A nation could invade a nation, kill one civilian, then leave without a fight and be at the top of the list. Genocide is decimating the population. Decimate is to kill 10% of the civilian population. Moscow has genocided many ethnic groups, some over and over again. Some to the applause of the Iranians in support of genocide. This was before the cia zionist wars in the middle east. Before George Bush started the taking out Putin regimes in the Middle East. Iran supported Moscow genocides of ethnic groups. If Iran supports this genocidal war on Ukraine, which is the continuation of the subjugation by Moscow, then Iran supports the holodomor genocide by Moscow. No people should be ruled over by those that genocided them, not Chechens, not Crimean Tatars, not Ukrainians, not Circassians (Soshi must be returned to Circassians), and not the many conquered tribes, conquered by the genocidal Romanovs and Russians.
> 
> Does Washington/London have the right to invade and annex Iraq. If not, neither does Moscow have any privileges to do that to Ukraine.
> 
> Revenge! Revenge! Revenge! against those nations that supported Moscow genociding the Chechens in the 90s. Since Iran supported the ACTUAL genocide of Chechens, REVENGE against Iran. Bomb pro-genocide Iran. So McCain was right and proper in wanting to bomb Iran, by Iranian standards.



Add to that the 18-19th centuries Circassian Genocide.

Ah no, Mr. Putin is not a Jihadist-loving warrior, unlike some radicals have come to believe. 









Circassian genocide - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





The Circassian genocide,[6][7][8][9][10] or Tsitsekun,[a]* was the Russian Empire's systematic mass murder, ethnic cleansing, and expulsion of 80–97%[6][10] of the Circassian population, around 800,000–1,500,000 people,[6][7][8] during and after the Russo-Circassian War (1763–1864).[4][12][13] The peoples planned for removal were mainly the Circassians, but other Muslim peoples of the Caucasus were also affected.[12] Several methods used by Russian forces such as impaling and tearing the bellies of pregnant women were reported.[4][14] Russian generals such as Grigory Zass described the Circassians as "subhuman filth", and glorified the mass murder of Circassian civilians,[4][15][16] justified their use in scientific experiments,[17] and allowed their soldiers to rape women.[4]*

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Beny Karachun said:


> Comes from the fact not all Jews were exiled and Jews always had presence in this land.




In 637 AD, Muslims led by Omar Bin Khaddab (ra), the Second Leader of Islam after the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah (swt) be upon him), seized the Holy Land from the Byzantium Christian rulers. Under the Treaty signed by Khalif Omar (ra) and Byzantium Patriarch Sophronius, "No Jews were allowed to live in Jerusalem". (Source: https://www.islamicity.org/11511/capture-of-jerusalem-the-treaty-of-umar/)

Let us not forget under the Byzantium Christian rulers, who ruled the Holy Land between 70 BCE - 637 AD, no Jew was allowed to live in the Holy Land.

In your faith, you call it living in the diaspora between the time the Second Temple was destroyed (70 BCE) till the formation of the current Israel in 1948. 

So my question is, if you believed in living in the diaspora for over 2000 years and Byzantium rulers didn't even allow you to live in the Holy Land for the time they controlled, how can you justify the continued 3500 years of presence that you claimed? That is 2700 years that Jews didn't have a presence or their existence in the Holy Land was very minuscule. 

Fyi, I am not denying Jewish presence in the Holy Land in different times depending upon their situation; I am just questioning the new claim that has been manufactured recently that states 3500 years of continued presence when the facts show otherwise.

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## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> What’s about Russian beggars?
> Putin begs drones from Iran. He begs dumb ammo from North Korea, foods from China? Feeling no shame?


The same beggars supplied Vietnamese beggars with weapons during the Vietnam war.

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## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> The same beggars supplied Vietnamese beggars with weapons during the Vietnam war.


That came from USSR.
Russia today is just dwarf of.


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> In 637 AD, Muslims led by Omar Bin Khaddab (ra), the Second Leader of Islam after the Prophet (peace be upon), seized the Holy Land from the Byzantium Christian rulers. Under the Treaty signed by Khalif Omar (ra) and Byzantium Patriarch Sophronius, "No Jews were allowed to live in Jerusalem". (Source: https://www.islamicity.org/11511/capture-of-jerusalem-the-treaty-of-umar/)
> 
> Let us not forget under the Byzantium Christian rulers, who ruled the Holy Land between 70 BCE - 637 AD, no Jew was allowed to live in the Holy Land.
> 
> In your faith, you call it living in the diaspora between the time the Second Temple was destroyed (70 BCE) till the formation of the current Israel in 1948.
> 
> So my question is, if you believed in living in the diaspora for over 2000 years and Byzantium rulers didn't even allow you to live in the Holy Land for the time they controlled, how can you justify the continued 3500 years of presence that you claimed? That is 2700 years that Jews didn't have a presence or their existence in the Holy Land was very minuscule.
> 
> Fyi, I am not denying Jewish presence in the Holy Land in different times depending upon their situation; I am just questioning the new claim that has been manufactured recently that states 3500 years of continued presence when the facts show otherwise.


Why do you bother with him. Even if you convince him you are right, he’s not going to pack up and go back to Poland or Romania or wherever he comes from. He’s found his place under the sun with the protection of the empire and he will do what he has to do to keep his country. 

Just don’t forget that these people have been genocided and kicked out of every empire that has come into contact with them for last 3,000 years, starting with Egypt and ending with Europe. 

The Anglo empire is one political crisis away from turning into an orgy of torch lighting, book burning Nazi rally type of stuff. Just look at parts of America where the white people feel marginalised.

So history is likely to just repeat itself, sadly.


----------



## sammuel

BHAN85 said:


> Tell that to thousands of soldiers dead and their families, both, Russian and Ukrainian.




May this be the last war,








While i was posing this song , i found that this song origin is actually a Cossack folk song .







Russian Folk - Колода-дуда (Koloda-Duda) lyrics + English translation


Translation of 'Колода-дуда (Koloda-Duda)' by Russian Folk (Русская




lyricstranslate.com

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## Oldman1

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606408471271940103
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606373942146596865


Need more strong camo nets! Make it wider to cover the angles of the attack to make it harder to hit.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606380530252931072


925boy said:


> Tanks are becoming a thing of the past for countries at war that cant replace or/and fix them fast enough- and this is why Ukraine is using alot more pickup trucks on the frontline, which is obviously more risky, because they are less protected, and Ukraine is asking for "western tanks", so even NATO and Ukraine know tanks are relevant, but also Orynx tells us that Russia has lost 8500 tanks and military vehicles- so how then are Russian troops today still using and riding around with T72/T90/T6x etc tanks and BTRs and BMPs, etc? War is logistics!!


Uh because Russia has a lot of tanks. 20k plus tanks. Course many are in bad condition but they still able to bring old tanks like T64s into the war. Was expecting thousands of T90s and the newer T14s being brought into the war. Not happening.


----------



## sammuel

Ali_Baba said:


> Poland Moves All Its MiG-29 Fulcrums to Malbork Air Base
> 
> 
> MiG-29 Days at the Minsk Mazowiecki Base Are Over After 33 Years. The rumors have now been confirmed. For quite some time now, the Polish military
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theaviationist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> are the migs about to be finally retired and ”sold” to Ukraine? Will they be upgraded to operate jdams(if not already.)….



According to wiki Poland has 23 mig -29 in it's service.





thetutle said:


> Why do you bother with him. Even if you convince him you are right, he’s not going to pack up and go back to Poland or Romania or wherever he comes from.




You are aware that most of the Israelis that live here today , where actually born here . It will make as much sense for them to go to Poland as you to Zimbabwe . And what ever part of the story you agree too , it is understandable why they feel a strong historical and religious connection to this land.

You are aware that you are explaining stuff to a person, who is " on the fence " on whether the holocaust happened or not , while his only vision or solving this conflict is by some sort of Armageddon.


~


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## Oldman1

This is just sad.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606037940148113409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604775982782717953

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## ZeGerman

S10 said:


> So NATO lost to Taliban?


Yes. But the issue was not military might yet being unable to further nation-build/prop up a lasting alternative to the taliban. 

We thought afghans would “naturally” flock to western culture/ideals in mass. That we could easily reform a broken/tribal/corrupt society. This was a mistake/too arrogant.


----------



## Stranagor

Putin isolated as neutral powers join West in anti-Russia rhetoric

TOKYO -- As it has little chance of defeating Ukraine with conventional arms, Russia is destroying the country's vital civilian infrastructure, such as power plants and housing units, to make people freeze and lose their will to fight.

Russia's action is tantamount to torture of the Ukrainian people and must be stopped as soon as possible. For that, it is necessary to further isolate Moscow to weaken President Vladimir Putin's will and ability to carry on the war.









Putin isolated as neutral powers join West in anti-Russia rhetoric


World stepped back from the brink of discord at G-20 summit




asia.nikkei.com

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## Mohsin A

Russia will meet it's objectives at any cost. It's as simple as that. They have the manpower and resouces.
The question is how much is the West willing to sacrifice for one of the most corrupt country's in the world to the cost and detriment of it's own civilians?

Russia never was or has never been a threat to the West as the MSM wants us to believe. They simply wanted to live on fair terms and specified certain red lines that were not to be crossed. Unfortunately, the West belligerently crossed those lines despite multiple promises and so Russia had no choice but to act.

The only logical actor here is Putin. He wants peace but once Ukraine accepts certain terms. The puppet clown Zulensky is just prolonging the suffering of his people but he couldn't give a toss as he's in his fully heated underground office meeting and greeting Hollywood stars. Ukrainians need to kick the tracksuit wearing clown out ASAP for the greater good of Ukraine. Peace talks are the only sensible way out of this whole mess otherwise it's looking like the escalation ladder can be climbed very quickly. Is it really worth it? I think not.

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## Hack-Hook

Beny Karachun said:


> https://embassies.gov.il/UnGeneva/AboutIsrael/history/Pages/History-Israel-Timeline.aspx
> 
> 
> 
> Read this. Jews weren't wandering around the earth after wandering for 40 years in the Sinai, they went back to Israel for hundreds of years until the Babylonian exile, and returned again and built the 2nd temple. All and all Jews have 3500 years of presence in Israel.


well the punishment was that , they accepted it or not is something else

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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> Allegedly. And with a likely CIA asset.
> 
> It is a clear case of rape in anglo countries also. But this happened allegedly, and with a likely CIA asset.
> 
> Its funny when you screw over the empire and then you just happen to commit a sex crime against the empires spies. Mind you a crime that relies on one word against another, All his life he was a law abiding citizen, then he turns against the empire and then turns against women and becomes a rapist (alleged). twice. hmmmm


Feel free to provide proof of your accusation of them being a CIA asset.
Making false accusations are libel, and a criminal offense.

It has been shown by his behaviour on the Ecuador embassy that Assange is an a-hole.
Unless You can give credible evidence on your accusations, you are no better.

He is not your average ”law abiding citizen”. He is a person full of himself.
In 1991 Australian authorities charged him with 31 counts of cybercrime; he pleaded guilty to most of them. He is now accused of more cybercrimes by the US, and will be extradited.

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## sammuel

Mohsin A said:


> Russia will meet it's objectives at any cost. It's as simple as that. They have the manpower and resouces.



And what are those objectives exactly ?

Cause they change as the war goes along. First it was Kiev and controlling all of Ukraine , now the goals seems to have changed to grab what you can.

~

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## Mohsin A

Well it's pretty straightforward. It's to demilitarise Ukraine so it can't become a bastion for the West and a threat to Russian security and integrity. But since the West is hell bent on sending in weapons now, the objectives become more encompassing.
I would imagine that the original goal was to secure eastern Ukraine and get rid of the imposter clown sitting in Kiev and his corrupt government. Granted that didn't materialise and so we are in a dire situation all round.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Mohsin A said:


> Well it's pretty straightforward. It's to demilitarise Ukraine so it can't become a bastion for the West and a threat to Russian security and integrity. But since the West is hell bent on sending in weapons now, the objectives become more encompassing.
> I would imagine that the original goal was to secure eastern Ukraine and get rid of the imposter clown sitting in Kiev and his corrupt government. Granted that didn't materialise and so we are in a dire situation all round.


Ukraine is a much more potent fighting force now than it was in the start of the war.

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## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> Tell that to thousands of soldiers dead and their families, both, Russian and Ukrainian.
> 
> It's a nonsense war.
> 
> I prefer live in a sovereign country than in a Moscow puppet protectorate, but that doesnt deserve the death of a single one person.
> 
> Russia is stronger, Russian ruled over Ukraine until 2014, and life was easy, food and heat from cheap gas, it's enough. And anything is better than to be dead. Maybe I'm a coward, but I think Ukraine must surrended the first day before war.
> 
> 
> Tell that to the young Spaniards that have to emmigrate to another countries searching for job.
> 
> Patriotic feelings have no sense in West Europe in 2022.
> 
> The same to Ukrainian, it's not worth die for what politicians will rule you, I dont give a sht if my rulers are from Madrid, Moscow, NYC or Mars, they can kill themselves if they want, but any Ukrainian should emmigrate and escape from that hell if he achieve the possibility.



Think this way: Ukrainian people vetoed by willingly joining the war of resistance. 

If there were no popular will, no foreign support could make people fight in what appears to be a very lopsided war. 

Ukraine would fall as quickly as the Afghan National Government.

Ukrainian president, if not already fled the country, would end up like Saddam or Ghaddafi.

I think Ukrainian president has the highest legitimacy a government can have at the moment. People vote by making so many sacrifices.

We simply cannot criticize or belittle so strong as a popular will.

This is the problem of all those hateful anti-Ukraine people on this forum: They simply cannot produce a rational argument against popular will so absolutely demonstrated.

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## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> Tell that to thousands of soldiers dead and their families, both, Russian and Ukrainian.
> 
> It's a nonsense war.
> 
> I prefer live in a sovereign country than in a Moscow puppet protectorate, but that doesnt deserve the death of a single one person.
> 
> Russia is stronger, Russian ruled over Ukraine until 2014, and life was easy, food and heat from cheap gas, it's enough. And anything is better than to be dead. Maybe I'm a coward, but I think Ukraine must surrended the first day before war.
> 
> 
> Tell that to the young Spaniards that have to emmigrate to another countries searching for job.
> 
> Patriotic feelings have no sense in West Europe in 2022.
> 
> The same to Ukrainian, it's not worth die for what politicians will rule you, I dont give a sht if my rulers are from Madrid, Moscow, NYC or Mars, they can kill themselves if they want, but any Ukrainian should emmigrate and escape from that hell if he achieve the possibility.


Again, I felt sorry for the people who you called "Compatriot"


----------



## Stranagor

Mohsin A said:


> The question is how much is the West willing to sacrifice for one of the most corrupt country's in the world to the cost and detriment of it's own civilians?









Well, try to locate Ukraine on this list. Then find Russia and Iran, respectively. Then, you will surmise which regimes better deserve to be rid of for the sake of their own people as well as for the larger humanity.


----------



## Stranagor

Mohsin A said:


> Russia never was or has never been a threat to the West as the MSM wants us to believe. They simply wanted to live on fair terms and specified certain red lines that were not to be crossed. Unfortunately, the West belligerently crossed those lines despite multiple promises and so Russia had no choice but to act.



The West have overridden some of the mutual understanding reached during the dissolution of the USSR. But, Russia, on its own right, was not busy picking oranges in the orchard. It was busy rendering Central Asia an exclusive backyard. It has been active in all the areas it seems necessary for its national interests from Africa to the Middle East and the Korean Peninsula. Hence, crossing red lines is just an excuse for stealing land. 



Mohsin A said:


> The puppet clown Zulensky is just prolonging the suffering of his people but he couldn't give a toss as he's in his fully heated underground office meeting and greeting Hollywood stars.



Zelensky has more popular mandate and legitimacy in one hour than an Iranian clerical leader can have in a lifetime. Aside from anti-Semitic rhetoric and gunning down people for disobeying God, your leadership has little use for the people. 



Mohsin A said:


> Ukrainians need to kick the tracksuit wearing clown out ASAP for the greater good of Ukraine.



Save that advice for the gunned-downed women or waiting to be hanged protesters in Iran. 



Mohsin A said:


> Peace talks are the only sensible way out of this whole mess otherwise it's looking like the escalation ladder can be climbed very quickly. Is it really worth it? I think not.



The solution is simple and obvious for everyone to see: Russia needs to stop the invasion and respect Ukrainian people's democratic choice.



Mohsin A said:


> I would imagine that the original goal was to secure eastern Ukraine and get rid of the imposter clown sitting in Kiev and his corrupt government.



I thought you were talking about Iran with its tyrannical regime and corrupt government sitting in Tahran.

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## jhungary

Beny Karachun said:


> Ukraine is a much more potent fighting force now than it was in the start of the war.


Not to mentioned more militarised with Western Equipment........

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606602958560321537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606401458697642009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606398916613885952

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606525707806560256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606521708751601664

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## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> The russians riding around in tanks exactly where? .. How come Russia isnt using all this armor breaking ukrainian lines?


Russians dont want to die foolishly like the Ukrainians- they take their time- the only idiot that time isnt on its side is Ukraine, so chill if you dont understand Russia's military tempo- Russia has ALL THE TIME to work Ukraine to its bone, and it will need time, so its taking its time.


MeFishToo said:


> So far theyve gained nothing sending waves of platoon sized infantry units towards certain death on a several hundred km wide frontline.


Ukraine is the one that hasnt gained a single square kilometre of territory- no? which territory did Ukraine get from Russians since half of Kherson? buuut Russians are in Bakhmut now, they took Yakovlevka, they've taken Myrinka, theyre taking towns one at a time from the exhausted and demoralized and abandoned and untrained and unequipped Ukrainian forces on the front line-i keep hearing Ukrainian forces on the frontline dont even have artillery? how were they going to overwhelm Russian forces when they werent ready to meett Soviet state DEFENSE PRODUCTION??


MeFishToo said:


> Seems like they have no objective.


lmao- they do- kill as many skilled Ukrainian troops, so when Russian troops need to be on the offensive, they face the least opposition?
If Ukraine was doing well now, why is Poland planning on sending some troops into west Ukraine by march 2023? what does it predict to happen that we dunno yet? please tell us if you know. lmao



Beny Karachun said:


> Ukraine is a much more potent fighting force now than it was in the start of the war.


they why does it need a NEW ARMY? (I mean Zaluzhny asking for "500 artillery pieces, 300 tanks, etc")- Obviously Ukrainian army today is in its worst shape- its airforce and air defenses are much degraded now, same thing with experienced troops- Ukraine foolishly sent them to perish in the likes of Bakhmut, and now no Baushka in a pickup truck can replace such soldiers....

we know things are going hard for Ukraine because the last time anythign good happen to Ukraine on the battlefied, except for recent Kherson victory, was "months ago"..

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## 925boy

That Guy said:


> Scott Ritter is a convicted rapist.


While i understand this point about Scott Ritter, can you tell me how him being a rapist is related to the information he provides about the Ukraine war?

pls dont be that kind of emotional person who cant analyze what someone says and judge the point off its own merit- if you know his points are BS, then counter them, calling him a rapist doesnt change the validity of his points, because you are using a fallacy- ad hominem, a personal attack, to counter his point(s).



vi-va said:


> Money Walks Bullshit Talks


But America threw over $1TRN dollars at the Afghanistan and Iraq wars EACH, and lost both, so wtf do you really mean by "money talks"? is it even money or fake cash debt?

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## 925boy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The Russians really done mess up big time.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606264548763357185


and Ukraine still has no artillery and cant take territory back? meeen- Ukraine is DONE!!!

the moment a western counntry thats starts tellign your country at war taht its technology will help you- just know you will lose that war, its only a matter of time- NATO military technology hasnt save ISrael from hamas last year - beaten, didnt save Saudis from Houthis- beaten, didnt save US from Afghanistan- beaten, didnt save US from Iraq- beaten, I MEAAAN! didnt even save US in Syria- beaten.
US weapons are overrated, and if US couldnt print fake dollars, it wouldnt be able t supply its systems to Ukraine and other proxies.

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## Viet

Putin means serious. Russia prepares the second invasion of Ukraine from Belarus front as per the US institute of war studies. The assault can happen every moment.
the Russians apparently have amassed enough forces to attack.

It’s best Ukraine army blows up everything every roads every bridge along the front.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606613717260582914


----------



## TopGun786

No need to waste time on these zionist. They are cursed and although they know and understand each and everything they will listen and do exactly like their forefathers did.



Beny Karachun said:


> Comes from the fact not all Jews were exiled and Jews always had presence in this land.
> 
> 
> Lol


Truth hurts, right?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606630053361684481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606576523678404608


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606630116137717760


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606620943471837184


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606612127749382144


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606445680586678272
Entire Russian squad destroyed by Ukrainian drone

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606445680586678272
> Entire Russian squad destroyed by Ukrainian drone



The Bakhmut field is literally littered with bodies of russian soldiers.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606677362241769472


----------



## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Feel free to provide proof of your accusation of them being a CIA asset.
> Making false accusations are libel, and a criminal offense.


How is it libel if you say someone is a CIA asset, nobody would think badly of someone of they were a CIA asset. It is a source of pride I am sure. And its not a criminal offence where I am. And I have no money they would ever get to, so that can just sue, me. And thirdly, it is just my opinion and opinions are protected. And fourthly they would have to prove they were not a CIA asset. So, Id like to subpoena their phone and travel history and all their bank accounts. Yeah, Im sure they would not want that. Also Assange is right now innocent of all the things he is accused of in Sweden. 



A.P. Richelieu said:


> He is not your average ”law abiding citizen”. He is a person full of himself.
> In 1991 Australian authorities charged him with 31 counts of cybercrime; he pleaded guilty to most of them. He is now accused of more cybercrimes by the US, and will be extradited.


He's a hero. He uncovered massive war crimes and published them, Very brave guy.


----------



## SIPRA

Iggyalaw said:


> That ratty Jew Zelensky came to America – and he still refused to put on a shirt!
> 
> He was in the Congress speaking in a green sweatshirt!



He can't do more for merely a peanut amount of 45 Billions $.😛😛😛

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Putin means serious. Russia prepares the second invasion of Ukraine from Belarus front as per the US institute of war studies. The assault can happen every moment.
> the Russians apparently have amassed enough forces to attack.
> 
> It’s best Ukraine army blows up everything every roads every bridge along the front.
> 
> View attachment 907544


a question , its winter time , aren't those river north of Ukraine frozen now?



Vergennes said:


> The Bakhmut field is literally littered with bodies of russian soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606677362241769472


I say body of Russians and Ukrainian soldiers , they are literally practicing WW1 warfare tactics there


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> a question , its winter time , aren't those river north of Ukraine frozen now?
> 
> 
> I say body of Russians and Ukrainian soldiers , they are literally practicing WW1 warfare tactics there


Tanks don’t roll over frozen rivers, they are too heavy to do so. Mud is the worst enemy for tanks. The Russians wait until the ground is hardened or frozen by cold temperature then they can attack. That’s about now.


----------



## khansaheeb

Beny Karachun said:


> Was going very well until the US decided to pull out.
> Goes to show how effective NATO technology is.


Whose side are you on? Seems like Arabs are having an influence on you or are you Israelis double timing the yanks?

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## That Guy

925boy said:


> While i understand this point about Scott Ritter, can you tell me how him being a rapist is related to the information he provides about the Ukraine war?
> 
> pls dont be that kind of emotional person who cant analyze what someone says and judge the point off its own merit- if you know his points are BS, then counter them, calling him a rapist doesnt change the validity of his points, because you are using a fallacy- ad hominem, a personal attack, to counter his point(s).
> 
> 
> But America threw over $1TRN dollars at the Afghanistan and Iraq wars EACH, and lost both, so wtf do you really mean by "money talks"? is it even money or fake cash debt?


Simple, he's completely wrong about almost everything he says.

He has zero credibility at this point.

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## Ali_Baba

I miss @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen from this thread - when is he coming back?

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## thetutle

Iggyalaw said:


> Extra! Extra! Jew denounces some alleged atrocity, caused mostly by himself, and demands money. (Even after already having received billions.)
> News at 11.
> 
> This is exactly what happens when you get a Jewish head of state in a EUROPEAN country. He shows up in combat fatigues with a Trident logo medallion, asking for more money for weapons to kill white people.
> 
> Wake up whitey.


Its irrelevant what ethnic group the ukranian president belongs to. He was elected by ukranians and he's very much a ukranian hero now. He is not killing "white people", he's killing people invading his country, some of whom are white. Although Russia is using as many non slavic ethnic groups as possible to do the fighting.

Ukrainians are paying a massive toll to keep all of europe free and safe, I dont know if we will ever be able to repay them.

You saw that RT commercial about the European family eating the rat, well thats exactly what is being avoided in the rest of europe because of Ukrainian sacrifice.

I think zelensky is my favourite jewish person of all time. He has no shame, he will ask Americans for a trillion $ if he has to. Well done him.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606701930230972417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606699015114035202

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> You are aware that most of the Israelis that live here today , where actually born here . It will make as much sense for them to go to Poland as you to Zimbabwe . And what ever part of the story you agree too , it is understandable why they feel a strong historical and religious connection to this land.


Well, I dont have a Zimbabwe passport. Many Israelis however do have EU citizenship or are entitled to one. Of course you can convince yourself you have a connection to a land, just disregard the last 2,000 years or 1,000 years. I mean so many jews lived in Poland and Ukraine for 1,000 years and they feel nothing for this land? I mean thats disgraceful. Or maybe its the way you were treated there, I dont know. 


sammuel said:


> You are aware that you are explaining stuff to a person, who is " on the fence " on whether the holocaust happened or not , while his only vision or solving this conflict is by some sort of Armageddon.


I am sure he believes it happened. he's just trying to make you angry. But you aren't the only victims of WW2, Russians, Ukranians, Gypsies, maybe serbs, and people forget the germans also were comparable victims in that conflict. 12 million germans were ethnically cleansed, from Eastern Europe, their land stolen. 7 million germans killed. 

I feel very bad for the gypsies, how did they even survive? a huge % of them were killed. They should have a country as well. It seems very unfair they dont get a country.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606654714275323904

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606699015114035202


Just shows how inclusive Ukraine is. They are allowed to practice their rituals and so they should. This is some sort of nordic thing with he during boat. Its not illegal to glorify Nordic culture, they clearly feel a connection to that and so they should burn some bonfires if it makes them happy.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606654714275323904



Russian claims are as worth as toilet paper.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605518663817170944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606711221687881734

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russian claims are as worth as toilet paper.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605518663817170944
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606711221687881734




So are your words and the words of other Western propagandists


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606699026329616384

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606664339750289411

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> Just shows how inclusive Ukraine is. They are allowed to practice their rituals and so they should. This is some sort of nordic thing with he during boat. It’s not illegal to glorify Nordic culture, they clearly feel a connection to that and so they should burn some bonfires if it makes them happy.


Ukraine forefathers came from the north. Yes that’s fire rituals they practice. That’s not racism or something Nazi. in Germany they make “osterfeuer”. The woods are stacked up in high hills then burned down. I multiple times participated such events.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606750019813523459


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So are your words and the words of other Western propagandists
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606699026329616384


Well russian “news” has been systemically wrong and blatantly caught lying over and over. To an extent incomparable to western news on ukraine. 

How is the 3 day special operation going Hassan? 
happy sailing along on the Moskva with your fellow propaganda bots?

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## Reashot Xigwin

Merry X-mas everyone. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606425220222435329


925boy said:


> and Ukraine still has no artillery and cant take territory back? meeen- Ukraine is DONE!!!
> 
> the moment a western counntry thats starts tellign your country at war taht its technology will help you- just know you will lose that war, its only a matter of time- NATO military technology hasnt save ISrael from hamas last year - beaten, didnt save Saudis from Houthis- beaten, didnt save US from Afghanistan- beaten, didnt save US from Iraq- beaten, I MEAAAN! didnt even save US in Syria- beaten.
> US weapons are overrated, and if US couldnt print fake dollars, it wouldnt be able t supply its systems to Ukraine and other proxies.



LOL tell me later when UAF retook Crimea. 😁


----------



## aviator_fan

Dalit said:


> I saw Zelensky beg in US. The little comedian stood there and he begged for the spotlight. LOL Some US politicians held the Ukrainian flag to comfort his ego. I guess he will be back on his flight to Ukraine and return to the shitshow he belongs in.


begging? Didn’t the Pakistani FM, Finance Minister , and Bajwa all visit the US in the same 90 day window and FM is back. All for a measly relief not even $2bn from the IMF . Everybody begs,Zelensky is begging for a higher amount. Btw, Pakistan FM figured out a way to make his way back to the US now again so he could celebrate Christmas in NYC apparently


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Well russian “news” has been systemically wrong and blatantly caught lying over and over. To an extent incomparable to western news on ukraine.
> 
> How is the 3 day special operation going Hassan?
> happy sailing along on the Moskva with your fellow propaganda bots?



*Talk is cheap*. Over 150,000 Ukrainian and their allied mercenary forces were killed, and here you're citing one old naval ship. The *Bakhmut* and *Marinka* meat grinder is a clear testament to the damage that the Russians are inflicting on the Ukrainians and their allied mercenary forces from the queer-loving West.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606608094326300673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606705216702775297

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> *Talk is cheap*. Over 150,000 Ukrainian and their allied mercenary forces were killed, and here you're citing one old naval ship. The *Bakhmut* and *Marinka* meat grinder is a clear testament to the damage that the Russians are inflicting on the Ukrainians and their allied mercenary forces from the queer-loving West.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606608094326300673
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606705216702775297



"An old naval ship",yeah basically the Black sea fleet's flagship boy. 

This is a real meat grinder boy. It is known Russians have no value of life sending cannon fodders in banzai wave attacks.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606677362241769472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606620943471837184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606630116137717760




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606720467045425153

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## LeGenD

925boy said:


> but both Iraq and Afghanistan were illegal wars by US- so what were they f or? not to expand its empire? US started war on China low key because its empire is threatened- you really shouldnt have brought this up- ANGLO saxons are the most imperialistic group on earth- no one comes close. just keep quiet please, at least out of respect for the colonized.



Your knowledge of global developments is skewed. USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1979 and US supported the Mujahideen movement to defeat USSR in Afghanistan. Osama Bin Laden was one of the mujahids and founded Al-Qaeda Network in 1988 with people loyal to him. Osama was of the view that US is an imperialistic power and aimed to counter it by plotting attacks on American troops and embassies in different countries. These morons had no sense of American bilateral relationship with different countries and killed many innocent people including the director of The Message movie. Al-Qaeda Network was able to find recruits in US and convinced them to plant a bomb inside the World Trade Center in 1993 -- The ultimate plan was to destroy the World Trade Center and it was realized in 2001. US invaded Afghanistan to dismantle Al-Qaeda Network in connection to 9/11 in a move identified as the War On Terror and this mission was sanctioned by United Nations Resolution 1368.

Since US was on bad terms with Iraq, Bush administration felt motivated to close the chapter of Saddam regime and reboot Iraqi political system. War On Terror emboldened Bush administration to take this step. Reasons behind US invasion of Iraq are captured from different perspectives in following study:









The Reasons Behind U.S. Invasion of Iraq


This study gives detail information about American invasion of Iraq in 2003 and explains U.S. decision to invade Iraq from different analytic perspect…




www.sciencedirect.com





_Realism at the individual level, state level and systemic level is a suitable theory to analyse this case. As already stated above, realism sees the international system as an anarchic system and Iraq was a threat to world peace. U.S. would be able to prevent future threats that may come from Iraq. Iraq posed a security threat to the U.S. and the only way to eliminate this threat was to overthrow the Saddam Hussein Baathist regime. In other words, realists agree that the Iraq war was necessary to bring peace globally. George W. Bush is a rational leader who believes that Saddam could not be deterred without going to war. 

Liberal theory explained the Iraq war from three levels of analysis. Individual level sees Saddam Hussein as a dictator who was using force against his own people: State level, the Iraqi government had an authoritarian regime under leads of Saddam Hussein. The transition was necessary in Iraq to replace the authoritarian regime with democracy that would bring peace to the Middle East region; International level, Iraq was not responding to U.N. Security Council resolutions. This was promoting collective action by international community according to Liberals. On this case, there was no proof from the U.N. Security Council for the presence of weapons of mass destruction. So the international community did not respond to it with action. Marxism has a completely different way among international relations theory, which rejects the realist theory and liberal theory. 

Marxist perspective analyses the war on terror from an economic viewpoint. Iraq War was based on competition over oil resources that Iraq holds. As a capitalist state, US needs to control oil resources to maintain its own hegemony. The main reason behind US decision to go to war in Iraq is not to remove weapons of mass destruction or bring democracy –in light of the current uncertainty and civil war in Iraq. This war was all about to serve Western economic interests. In other words, this war was a combination of many reasons that led US to choose coercive diplomacy towards Iraq. 

The decision taken by George W. Bush was beneficial for the US both nationally and internationally; the result of war was serving US national interest by gaining control of oil resources. Moreover, the US now has bases in Iraq and political relations with the new government headed by Nuri al-Maliki. So, this war served US selfinterest. As a rational actor, George W. Bush calculated the costs and benefits successfully to meet America’s needs. Bush and its own administration had a great reputation responding to the 9/11 attacks by invading Iraq. Bush’s calculation was successful as an individual. Realist theory at the individual level is the best theory for analysing the US decision to invade Iraq. Realism considers national interest, rational decision taken by individuals. Realism simply asks, if a state is under threat as an individual who can response with military force?_

Saddam Hussein was a troublemaker as well. Have you forgotten? Iraq under Saddam invaded Iran in 1980, and Kuwait in 1990. US-led forces liberated Kuwait from Iraq in 1991.

Iran also like to assert itself on other countries. Causes of the Iran - Iraq War are well-explained in following study:



https://www.jstor.org/stable/215091



Learn to be fair in your criticism. Global Order is NOT made up of "saints."

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## MeFishToo

Mohsin A said:


> Well it's pretty straightforward. It's to demilitarise Ukraine so it can't become a bastion for the West and a threat to Russian security and integrity. But since the West is hell bent on sending in weapons now, the objectives become more encompassing.
> I would imagine that the original goal was to secure eastern Ukraine and get rid of the imposter clown sitting in Kiev and his corrupt government. Granted that didn't materialise and so we are in a dire situation all round.


Arguments like these blows my mind. Clearly Russia invaded Ukraine, so Russia was and still is a great security threat to Ukraine, wouldnt you agree?

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## The SC

A lot of clashes along the whole front..

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## Hamartia Antidote

probably already posted somewhere








Russia is jamming more GPS satellite signals around Moscow


A rise in the jamming of satellite navigation within Russia follows attacks by drones on Russian airbases and may be designed to deter further strikes




www.newscientist.com


----------



## MeFishToo

Mohsin A said:


> Well it's pretty straightforward. It's to demilitarise Ukraine so it can't become a bastion for the West and a threat to Russian security and integrity. But since the West is hell bent on sending in weapons now, the objectives become more encompassing.
> I would imagine that the original goal was to secure eastern Ukraine and get rid of the imposter clown sitting in Kiev and his corrupt government. Granted that didn't materialise and so we are in a dire situation all round.


Arguments like these blows my mind. Clearly Russia invaded Ukraine, so Russia was and still is a great security threat to Ukraine, wouldnt you agree?


925boy said:


> Russians dont want to die foolishly like the Ukrainians- they take their time- the only idiot that time isnt on its side is Ukraine, so chill if you dont understand Russia's military tempo- Russia has ALL THE TIME to work Ukraine to its bone, and it will need time, so its taking its time.
> 
> Ukraine is the one that hasnt gained a single square kilometre of territory- no? which territory did Ukraine get from Russians since half of Kherson? buuut Russians are in Bakhmut now, they took Yakovlevka, they've taken Myrinka, theyre taking towns one at a time from the exhausted and demoralized and abandoned and untrained and unequipped Ukrainian forces on the front line-i keep hearing Ukrainian forces on the frontline dont even have artillery? how were they going to overwhelm Russian forces when they werent ready to meett Soviet state DEFENSE PRODUCTION??
> 
> lmao- they do- kill as many skilled Ukrainian troops, so when Russian troops need to be on the offensive, they face the least opposition?
> If Ukraine was doing well now, why is Poland planning on sending some troops into west Ukraine by march 2023? what does it predict to happen that we dunno yet? please tell us if you know. lmao
> 
> 
> they why does it need a NEW ARMY? (I mean Zaluzhny asking for "500 artillery pieces, 300 tanks, etc")- Obviously Ukrainian army today is in its worst shape- its airforce and air defenses are much degraded now, same thing with experienced troops- Ukraine foolishly sent them to perish in the likes of Bakhmut, and now no Baushka in a pickup truck can replace such soldiers....
> 
> we know things are going hard for Ukraine because the last time anythign good happen to Ukraine on the battlefied, except for recent Kherson victory, was "months ago"..


You are reading too much russian propaganda. Everything is going according to a plan that doesnt exist..
Ukraine have constantly regained territory through summer and autumn. Frontlines have stalled now, and you call positional fighting over small towns with a handfull of houses Russia advancing.
Let me know when Russia has taken Bakhmut, because Ive lost track of how many times the pro russians have claimed theyve taken that deserted ruin.
I will just ignore your fairytail about polish troops going into Ukraine. But to be honest, I really wish NATO would deploy into Ukraine, and call Putins bluff.

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## Beny Karachun

khansaheeb said:


> Whose side are you on? Seems like Arabs are having an influence on you or are you Israelis double timing the yanks?


I don't think you understood me.
I'm on the American side, I am saying the Americans kicked the terrorist's *** in every engagement.

US didn't lose.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Oops, it looks like this one was removed from the museum.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606761711201300485

What are they doing? Performing some ritual? Something is odd here. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606568883749638146

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## khansaheeb

Beny Karachun said:


> I don't think you understood me.
> I'm on the American side, I am saying the Americans kicked the terrorist's *** in every engagement.
> 
> US didn't lose.


That's a relief, I thought you were giving up your apartheid traits , denazification can continue.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Oops, it looks like this one was removed from the museum.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606761711201300485
> 
> What are they doing? Performing some ritual? Something is odd here. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606568883749638146

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## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> Arguments like these blows my mind. Clearly Russia invaded Ukraine, so Russia was and still is a great security threat to Ukraine, wouldnt you agree?


but Ukraine's plans to join NATO (while "suppressing" DPR and LPR into compliance) wasnt a threat to Russia's security? just a question like you asked..

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## khansaheeb

Let's hope the Russians and Ukrainians have sense and talk for peace:-

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Shaheed-136s own the day! 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606779985112584192

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## The SC

Many updates..

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## khansaheeb

So it seems the whole Ukraine support by US Neocons and use of NATO is to diminish Russian support for Syria, implied by this video , 9:10 Mins onwards:-


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> "An old naval ship",yeah basically the Black sea fleet's flagship boy.
> 
> This is a real meat grinder boy. It is known Russians have no value of life sending cannon fodders in banzai wave attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606677362241769472
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606620943471837184
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606630116137717760
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606720467045425153



Oh boy, $1 Trillion in property damage, over 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers dead, over 400,000 wounded, Bakhmut is meat grinder, citizens under Ukrainian control down to 27 million from 44 million, and teenagers are been drawn as most draftable males have fled Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606646420949422080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606832615310655489
https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1606828869587460098

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606515211653242882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606757813849817088

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## Viet

Russia electronic warfare troops wreck havoc on Ukraine fire control communications.
Ukraine commando should focus to knock them down.






A Russian army Pole-21 jamming system.

RUSSIAN STATE MEDIA PHOTO









Russia’s Electronic-Warfare Troops Knocked Out 90 Percent Of Ukraine’s Drones


The electronic suppression of Ukraine’s unmanned aerial vehicles blunted one of Kyiv’s biggest advantages in the early months of the war.




www.forbes.com

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## vi-va

925boy said:


> While i understand this point about Scott Ritter, can you tell me how him being a rapist is related to the information he provides about the Ukraine war?
> 
> pls dont be that kind of emotional person who cant analyze what someone says and judge the point off its own merit- if you know his points are BS, then counter them, calling him a rapist doesnt change the validity of his points, because you are using a fallacy- ad hominem, a personal attack, to counter his point(s).
> 
> 
> But America threw over $1TRN dollars at the Afghanistan and Iraq wars EACH, and lost both, so wtf do you really mean by "money talks"? is it even money or fake cash debt?


U.S. did lose both war. The objectives of the war were not achieved. U.S. wasted their resource in Afghanistan and Iraq.

But U.S. didn't lose the batter, actually U.S. eliminated Saddam ground force in weeks, and drove Taliban out of Kabul within days. U.S. definitely had superior technology and well-trained army in these 2 damn wars. U.S. fought very well in tactic perspective,

On the other hand, Russia lack of preparation. No plan at all. Otherwise, Russia won't lose 300 billions foreign exchange reserve in the first week of the war. Russia central bank was shocked by the war, they are out of the decision-making group.

From tactic point of view, Russia is fighting a WW1/WW2 with pre-cold war weaponaries, entrenchment, tanks, artilleries.

I feel sad for Russians, incompetent leadership, corruption. Putin wasted 22 years defending his thrones, but he doesn't know anything on how to run this country.

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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> How is it libel if you say someone is a CIA asset, nobody would think badly of someone of they were a CIA asset. It is a source of pride I am sure. And its not a criminal offence where I am. And I have no money they would ever get to, so that can just sue, me. And thirdly, it is just my opinion and opinions are protected. And fourthly they would have to prove they were not a CIA asset. So, Id like to subpoena their phone and travel history and all their bank accounts. Yeah, Im sure they would not want that. Also Assange is right now innocent of all the things he is accused of in Sweden.
> 
> 
> He's a hero. He uncovered massive war crimes and published them, Very brave guy.


Of course it is libel.
In court, you have to provide evidence that they are, and you will not be able to subpoena their information. Swedish operators does not have to provide the government with such information.
If you do not have any proof now, you are bound to lose a case.
Furthermore, According to Swedish Law, it does not matter if it is the truth or not. What matters is if you make a statement to hurt them or not.
You are clearly making the statement to make them less credible, so you are in my opinion guilty of libel according to Swedish Law.

Produce proof, or STFU.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606915587162218497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606916248557830144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606736964857864192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606681791045046273

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## Beny Karachun

Iggyalaw said:


> and planning to detonate a nuclear dirty conventional bomb and blame it on Russia


Lol retard


Iggyalaw said:


> who “said on record that he wants to turn Ukraine into a big Israel.”


Of course he would, if Israel was instead of Ukraine we would have held Moscow by now, looking at how pathetic the Russian forces are. They can't fight for shit, down to old T-62s, can't gain air supremacy over a country with barely any airforce remaining.

Russia had luck the Ukrainians didn't have the Spike NLOS at the start of the war because that 40km long line of tanks and vehicles back in March/February would have all been destroyed if they had it.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So are your words and the words of other Western propagandists
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606699026329616384



And the reality ;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606982873445457921

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606984752728313857

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> but Ukraine's plans to join NATO (while "suppressing" DPR and LPR into compliance) wasnt a threat to Russia's security? just a question like you asked..


DPR and LPR is a russian creation. We all know it, including you. 
But sure, Ukraine mightve wanted to join NATO. Who can blame them? Its not like Russia wasnt a huge security threat to them.
NATO is not a security threat to Russia but a threat to its emperial ambitions - notice how Russia isnt trying to annex NATO territory “Heim ins Reich”?

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606984752728313857


Those are russian recruits, fresh mobi, ex prison inmates, rapists, hooligans, minority groups, etc. even they die in hundreds of thousands Putin cares little. In Bakhmut the Wagners want to save their own lives, they send those worthless poor souls to run against Ukraine artillery instead.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Those are russian recruits, fresh mobi, ex prison inmates, rapists, hooligans, minority groups, etc. even they die in hundreds of thousands Putin cares little. In Bakhmut the Wagners want to save their own lives, they send those worthless poor souls to run against Ukraine artillery instead.


A good question will be who is standing against Russian artillery in that front, and how much zelensky care about them.


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> A good question will be who is standing against Russian artillery in that front, and how much zelensky care about them.


no comparison. Ukraine soldiers are obliged to do their duties otherwise they will stand before military court or worse. Zelinskki is the elected president and as such he has the absolute authority to command the army. I am surprised to tell you the most natural thing.

Putin in contrast is a thief. He just want to steal. Nothing else.

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## Broccoli

I've noticed that Russians aren't even using that many tanks in Bakhmut and sends soldiers into battle almost like we were living in year 1915 instead of 2022. 

Crazy stuff.

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## vi-va

Broccoli said:


> I've noticed that Russians aren't even using that many tanks in Bakhmut and sends soldiers into battle almost like we were living in year 1915 instead of 2022.
> 
> Crazy stuff.


Not many tanks left, that's fact. Sad.

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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Of course it is libel.
> In court, you have to provide evidence that they are, and you will not be able to subpoena their information. Swedish operators does not have to provide the government with such information.
> If you do not have any proof now, you are bound to lose a case.
> Furthermore, According to Swedish Law, it does not matter if it is the truth or not. What matters is if you make a statement to hurt them or not.
> You are clearly making the statement to make them less credible, so you are in my opinion guilty of libel according to Swedish Law.
> 
> Produce proof, or STFU.


Lol, In common law countries, Australia in particular, truth is a defence, and the statement has to be a statement of fact and not opinion and it has to be of a type that makes people think less of them. Being a CIA asset is something to be proud of. 

Of course their information can be subpoenaed, how else can you run a court case and prove your statement if you dont have access to their records and bank accounts and phone and computer. The information doesnt go to the government, the government already has all this information, the information will go to me to help me prove my case. 

And then they have to show harm resulting from my statement. How many people in Sweden will read what I say in this forum and think less of them? You clearly dont think less of them. 

Swedish law is such a joke, I laugh at Swedish law.To be sued I have to served with the court documents, and it has to be personal service. When people approach me on the street and ask me if I am this person, I just ignore them and keep walking, You cant get to my front door unless you are vetted. And even if these CIA assets sue me, and they actually serve me with court documents and win, they will get no money. Because I have no money, or at least not in a jurisdiction that they will ever find. Unless they are CIA assets. And even then, after they have spent a million $ suing me, they will get nothing as I would have spent my money to make sure they never get it. hehehehehe. And after that I will appeal once and twice. And they will spend more money and get zilch. than they will have to work harder as CIA assets to pay their legal fees. And if they are not CIA assets they will have to become one.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> According to Swedish Law, it does not matter if it is the truth or not. What matters is if you make a statement to hurt them or not.


Do you actually believe Sweden has a law banning the saying of truth? "You are guilty of telling the truth". lol, how clueless are you? 

You tell a short person, "hey you are 150 cm short" and then you get sued? lol, Sweden must be full of comedians and gullible people.


----------



## Ali_Baba

*Whatever happened to Putin’s vaunted “wonder weapons?”*









Russia Is Struggling in Ukraine. So Where Are Its So-Called Wonder Weapons?


Missiles, fighter jets, robots, and even a mecha turned out to be vaporware.




www.popularmechanics.com





>> Indeed .. as many here on this forum have said - it is all over priced junk powered by scavenged washing machine parts..

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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> Lol, In common law countries, Australia in particular, truth is a defence, and the statement has to be a statement of fact and not opinion and it has to be of a type that makes people think less of them. Being a CIA asset is something to be proud of.
> 
> Of course their information can be subpoenaed, how else can you run a court case and prove your statement if you dont have access to their records and bank accounts and phone and computer. The information doesnt go to the government, the government already has all this information, the information will go to me to help me prove my case.
> 
> And then they have to show harm resulting from my statement. How many people in Sweden will read what I say in this forum and think less of them? You clearly dont think less of them.
> 
> Swedish law is such a joke, I laugh at Swedish law.To be sued I have to served with the court documents, and it has to be personal service. When people approach me on the street and ask me if I am this person, I just ignore them and keep walking, You cant get to my front door unless you are vetted. And even if these CIA assets sue me, and they actually serve me with court documents and win, they will get no money. Because I have no money, or at least not in a jurisdiction that they will ever find. Unless they are CIA assets. And even then, after they have spent a million $ suing me, they will get nothing as I would have spent my money to make sure they never get it. hehehehehe. And after that I will appeal once and twice. And they will spend more money and get zilch. than they will have to work harder as CIA assets to pay their legal fees. And if they are not CIA assets they will have to become one.


You might be untouchable, but you would still be a criminal according to my interpretation of Swedish Law.


thetutle said:


> Do you actually believe Sweden has a law banning the saying of truth? "You are guilty of telling the truth". lol, how clueless are you?
> 
> You tell a short person, "hey you are 150 cm short" and then you get sued? lol, Sweden must be full of comedians and gullible people.


There is no law against telling the truth.
There is a law against trying to destroy the reputation of someone.
Then it does not matter if it is the truth.









Cissi Wallin fälls för grovt förtal - Nyheter (Ekot)


Medieprofilen Cissi Wallin fälls för grovt förtal av journalisten Fredrik Virtanen, meddelar Stockholms tingsrätt.




sverigesradio.se





*What is defamation?*
Defamation means pointing out someone as a criminal, reprehensible in their way of life or in some other way providing information that is apt to subject them to the disrespect of others. It doesn't really matter if the information is true or not. Emphasis is added if the task is likely to expose others to disrespect.

I added a thread to avoid cluttering this anymore.





What are some unusual aspects of Swedish Law?


Swedish Law has some unusual aspects. To avoid cluttering other threads, I added this. What is rape? Rape is one of the most serious sexual crimes Anyone who carries out sexual intercourse or another comparable sexual act with a person who does not participate voluntarily is convicted of...



defence.pk


----------



## thetutle

Iggyalaw said:


> It now reaches critical mass as Jews are leading us into nuclear WWIII with Russia, over Ukraine.


Jews have done a lot of stuff, but leading us to nuclear WW3 with russia, thats just too much, Please think about what you are saying and who invaded whom?


Iggyalaw said:


> Neocon Jews seem to think a limited nuclear war is possible, and then they can Build Back Better, to their liking.
> 
> Neocon Jews are Mad Destroyers, not creators


I dont know what they think, but I know that I believe that nuclear war will either happen or It wont, and we will not be able to prevent a nuclear war by surrendering to russia and allowing them to expand their borders. Nuclear was is much more preferable than being enslaved by some country. 

I also think west would win a nuclear war with russia. And win easily.


----------



## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You might be untouchable, but you would still be a criminal according to my interpretation of Swedish Law.


Thats defamation right there. But since I am not identified, I cant sue you. Although I would love to, just to show you how things are done. 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> There is no law against telling the truth.


now you are getting it. 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> There is a law against trying to destroy the reputation of someone.


well, yes. sure. 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Then it does not matter if it is the truth.


errr, yes it does. Telling the truth is permitted. You can call any convicted criminal a criminal and it would be ok. you can call a person who is 150 cm tall a "hey there 150cm tall person". if they find the truth offensive that is not your problem. Thats not how society functions. Or the legal system. 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> *What is defamation?*
> Defamation means pointing out someone as a criminal, reprehensible in their way of life or in some other way providing information that is apt to subject them to the disrespect of others. It doesn't really matter if the information is true or not. Emphasis is added if the task is likely to expose others to disrespect.


What this woman did in your article is accuse an innocent man of being a criminal. This is terrible and she was rightfully convinced of Libel. And she also defamed him and I hope he can take some of her money. Had he been a criminal, in this case a rapist, she would be fine. 

Instead she got a criminal conviction. And rightly so. It was something she maintained was factual. 

Instead I am offering an opinion that some people are CIA assets and this is very good and noble thing. You do not think less of them, noone in their right mind in Sweden would think badly of CIA assets. This is something great. They should be proud. I would love it if they spent a million $ suing me for this. I would have a big old laugh. 

I am Still waiting for my speeding and parking tickets from Sweden to arrive so I can pay them. Its been about 12 years. And I go to europe all the time. If they cant send me a speeding ticket when I've given them my address, how the heck are they going to do anything?


----------



## Stranagor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606984752728313857



Russian "soldiers" seem to loot their own dead. Brothers in underwear.


----------



## jhungary

Broccoli said:


> I've noticed that Russians aren't even using that many tanks in Bakhmut and sends soldiers into battle almost like we were living in year 1915 instead of 2022.
> 
> Crazy stuff.


Most likely Russia now depends on older armour (30-50 years old T-62/T-64) and they don't work like newer tanks does which have a separate cooling system. 

Older tanks needs special fuel mixture to work in winter, otherwise their engine will seize up in cold temperature, and since they don't do anti-freeze the way we do modern car or modern tank, if Russia don't have that much fuel mixture then those tank won't work in winter. And I doubt the Russian keep up with the supply with old fuel mix. 

But then this is just my take..


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607015981221646336
It seems russian terrorists were driven out of optyne

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## The SC

Some important information..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> And the reality ;
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606982873445457921






Spoiler: Bakhmut is not looking good for the Ukrainians





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606997791985004544




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607036522955513856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607039853950128128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607037627110146048

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## The SC

Russian President Vladimir Plans Fresh Attack On Ukraine's Kyiv | Russia Vs Ukraine War Update LIVE​

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607035658446540800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607035508903010309


Spoiler: Ukrainians fighting in Bakhmut next to a dead comrade. They can't even take their dead





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607034622470422528

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## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> DPR and LPR is a russian creation. We all know it, including you.


sure, lets continue.


MeFishToo said:


> But sure, Ukraine mightve wanted to join NATO.


might've? how is that a "might've" when NATO told Ukraine how to start building trenches in east Ukraine since 2014?


MeFishToo said:


> Who can blame them?


themselves? I mean, its only their country and citizens being destroyed at the quickest and most consistent rate in the war, especially now..


MeFishToo said:


> Its not like Russia wasnt a huge security threat to them.


well well well....foolish Ukraine should've realized that disregarding the regional hegemon's concerns and interests leads to bad messes that quickly become regret for a country like Ukraine. be wise!, but Ukraine wasnt- NATO egged Ukraine's bich azz to actually provoke and threaten Russia- so now we have to find out if that was smart or dumb.


MeFishToo said:


> NATO is not a security threat to Russia


prove this, because you talk is cheap, especailly yours.


MeFishToo said:


> but a threat to its emperial ambitions


IS that Why Russia had to BUST Georgia's butt in 2008 when NATO AGAIN was trying to integrate another former soviet bloc country on Russia's border into NATO? who had imperial ambitions then? Russia or NATO? NATO is the imperial bastard that has to have its back broken now- the neo nazi movement of the modern era- its just causing problems all over the world - but Ukraine is its waterloo- NATO will never be the same after this war.


MeFishToo said:


> notice how Russia isnt trying to annex NATO territory “Heim ins Reich”?





vi-va said:


> Not many tanks left, that's fact. Sad.


then why does Ukraine keep losing bits of most territories and towns on the frontline these days? Ukrainian soldiers dont even have enough artillery for a war..sitting ducks..smh. those good troops arent irreplaceable you know?

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## Horse_Rider

Beny Karachun said:


> What does that have to do with Islam? Our religion doesn't prevent us from having peace with anyone.
> Meanwhile Muslims have civil wars and religious fights.
> Shias vs Sunnis, Jihadists vs secular, etc etc.
> 
> Israel focuses on world peace, if you haven't paid attention the Muslim nations were the ones that started the wars against Israel and recently Israel have been signing peace/are in peace with a lot of the Arab world. Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Sudan, Morocco, Turkey, Azerbaijan and other nations in secret like Saudi Arabia and I believe Pakistan as well.
> 
> 
> Pretty much all Jews are not 100% genetically pure. I don't know what percentage constitutes a Jew genetically, but according to belief you are Jewish only if your mother is Jewish or you converted to Judaism.



Muslims having rifts internally is due to the lack of education and then real career opportunity . The core of rifts are no bigger than the gaps among the 12 tribes in Israel. The GDP / industry / opportunity exposure in Israel is what keeps everyone together. It's the same like other Western countries. The SAME Muslims whether shia or sunni live together and maintain friendships because they are focused on opportunity to grow. 

How is Israel working on global peace when it's not putting that effort in it's neighborhood? And has a big, native Arab population without basic human rights and opportunity? Instead, it deals with them militarily by bombing them without them even have a proper army? If I was running Israel, decades ago, I'd have helped in creating economic growth so that area would grow and people would just accept the TWO state fact and carried on with the opportunity that existed. And YES, I am aware of Arab leaders not liking it but too bad. I'd have secured both Israel's and local Arabs future that way and created undeniable peace.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606696239881396224


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607064380138721282

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## KAL-EL

3-day operation

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607064380138721282



Things looking not good for the Russians in the Bakhmut meat grinder.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607074064710909955

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607018698681843712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606987517034921984

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## zectech

@thetutle

Putinites are 5th columnists for a Trumpian hellscape.

If you do a little research, Russia is already a hellscape.

Where if you say things that offend Putin and expose Putin. Those comments are "criminal" and "fake news". And put you in jail if you oppose Putin.

Hmm... That is much the same as these cia trolls that want opposition to the cia to be kidnapped and charged with accusations of libel. The EU nations and politicians have said the cia does covert illegal things such as false flags and lies about it.

In a court of justice, if a witness says anything untrue, you are instructed by the judge to ignore the entire testimony of that witness. The cia false flags and lies and attacks those who expose the false flags.

So if the usual trolls say the cia is going to go after you over exposing the lying cia, dismiss it. The witness - the cia - is a liar.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607062766799429632

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## zectech

cia lies in mission and to the public about the deeds of the cia. So since the cia is a criminal organization, as said by EU nations and EU politicians, it is part of the Standard Operating Procedure of the cia to lie.

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## LeGenD

Members are advised to get back on topic.

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## zectech

If you read the book "American Freedom and Catholic Power", the Kennedys and Bidens were political enemies of the OSS and later cia. That Catholic Europeans posed a clear and present threat to WASP-jewish alliance. Is Biden defending Catholic Europe and Catholic EU because of this good disposition against the EU, I do not know. Louie Wirth, an oss linked academic, penned some of the Chapters in the book. That book is the playbook against Catholics in the USA and Europe. cia asset Tucker Carlson is exposing that the cia is continuing this anti-Catholic EU agenda, to destroy EU Europe using Putin.

The cia Modus Operandi is for you to fully blame Russia. Or have you on team Putin, fully blaming Washington. The cia does not want you blaming Russia for Russian crimes. And USA for USA crimes. The entire cia house of nothing cards crashes down when you blame Washington and Moscow, and London and Hell Aviv for their respective crimes. USA wins with only blame Putin, or only blame Washington. Since the Kremlin has been controlled cia agents since the fall of the Soviet Union. And Washington is epicenter of evil. Are you on Team Washington or on Team Moscow. EU wants to be on Team EU. Knowing that Washington was part of Brexit and 2008 financial crisis exported to EU that hurt EU economy.

This Ukraine war is the planned either recolonization of Europe by US hegemony or the loss of Europe to Trumper cia-ism, via Putin. Europe rejects both.


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## Broccoli

"Brothers morale not very high"

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607085505291898882

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## Deino

zectech said:


> cia lies in mission and to the public about the deeds of the cia. So since the cia is a criminal organization, as said by EU nations and EU politicians, it is part of the Standard Operating Procedure of the cia to lie.




But the former KGB and now FSB in return sid always the truth? 

Come on, can we leave out these plain stupid political BS-topics like Jews vs Arbas, the Swedish justice system and CIA operations?

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## zectech

zectech said:


> If you read the book "American Freedom and Catholic Power", the Kennedys and Bidens were political enemies of the OSS and later cia. That Catholic Europeans posed a clear and present threat to WASP-jewish alliance. Is Biden defending Catholic Europe and Catholic EU because of this good disposition against the EU, I do not know. Louie Wirth, an oss linked academic, penned some of the Chapters in the book. That book is the playbook against Catholics in the USA and Europe. cia asset Tucker Carlson is exposing that the cia is continuing this anti-Catholic EU agenda, to destroy EU Europe using Putin.
> 
> The cia Modus Operandi is for you to fully blame Russia. Or have you on team Putin, fully blaming Washington. The cia does not want you blaming Russia for Russian crimes. And USA for USA crimes. The entire cia house of nothing cards crashes down when you blame Washington and Moscow, and London and Hell Aviv for their respective crimes. USA wins with only blame Putin, or only blame Washington. Since the Kremlin has been controlled cia agents since the fall of the Soviet Union. And Washington is epicenter of evil. Are you on Team Washington or on Team Moscow. EU wants to be on Team EU. Knowing that Washington was part of Brexit and 2008 financial crisis exported to EU that hurt EU economy.
> 
> This Ukraine war is the planned either recolonization of Europe by US hegemony or the loss of Europe to Trumper cia-ism, via Putin. Europe rejects both.



This is why I said again and again on these threads that Europe needs to arm to the teeth against Russia. Because Russia is being used to destroy freedom in Europe, by the usual suspects. Europe MUST not be dependent on Washington for security. Or else we lose some independence.

Off-topic is saying you cannot criticize secretive cia, or you should be kidnapped by the cia trolls. That is off topic. Are Pakistanis threatened with kidnap and libel when they say on Pankistani threads that IK was taken out by the cia plot. No. Then why in Europe, these baseless threats against freedom of speech. Go to the Pakistani threads and see the laughter as the reply to threats against Pakistani freedom of speech.


----------



## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> sure, lets continue.
> 
> might've? how is that a "might've" when NATO told Ukraine how to start building trenches in east Ukraine since 2014?
> 
> themselves? I mean, its only their country and citizens being destroyed at the quickest and most consistent rate in the war, especially now..
> 
> well well well....foolish Ukraine should've realized that disregarding the regional hegemon's concerns and interests leads to bad messes that quickly become regret for a country like Ukraine. be wise!, but Ukraine wasnt- NATO egged Ukraine's bich azz to actually provoke and threaten Russia- so now we have to find out if that was smart or dumb.
> 
> prove this, because you talk is cheap, especailly yours.
> 
> IS that Why Russia had to BUST Georgia's butt in 2008 when NATO AGAIN was trying to integrate another former soviet bloc country on Russia's border into NATO? who had imperial ambitions then? Russia or NATO? NATO is the imperial bastard that has to have its back broken now- the neo nazi movement of the modern era- its just causing problems all over the world - but Ukraine is its waterloo- NATO will never be the same after this war.
> 
> 
> 
> then why does Ukraine keep losing bits of most territories and towns on the frontline these days? Ukrainian soldiers dont even have enough artillery for a war..sitting ducks..smh. those good troops arent irreplaceable you know?


First of all, Im not going to respond to this russian narrative of NATO controlling Ukraine.
In all honesty, Russia invading countries doesnt prove NATO emperialism. And, Russia is annexing territory - how does that in any way resemble a mutual defence pact like NATO?
Russia is agaisnt NATO because its a threat to its emperial ambitions. Its as simple as that. So they invaded Ukraine, hoping the West would turn the other cheek like in 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea and instigated and supported the fighting in eastern Ukraine. 
Putin miscalculated just about everything, and now Russia is facing a major humiliation in Ukraine - and no NATO soldier has even fired a shot yet.

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## LeGenD

@zectech 

I can post information about how KGB has shaped the world. Get my drift? 

Get back to topic.

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## Horse_Rider

zectech said:


> Off-topic is saying you cannot criticize secretive cia, or you should be kidnapped by the cia trolls. That is off topic. Are Pakistanis threatened with kidnap and libel when they say on other threads that IK was taken out by the cia plot. No. Then why in Europe, these baseless threats against freedom of speech. Go to the Pakistani threads and see the laughter as the reply.




  I can assure you, IK wasn't taken out on ANY CIA operation. In Pakistan, it's VERY easy to blame the US for all of our problems and get people lined up trusting it. In fact that's probably the easiest way to blame America for whatever and get sympathies. What IK and his people on this very forum didn't tell you, was that he didn't do anything for 4 years, made the Chinese stop work on many projects, upset the US, EU and even Saudi Arabia, and we were in a ditch with the IMF not issuing proceeds to a loan he signed due to him not following signed commitments. The military created him and backed off when they saw all this. Result? His opponents brought a change in the assembly and took him out. But his followers blame the Army / CIA / Opposition every minutes of the day.

On Topic, the Russian President today (3rd time this week) said that he wants to start "negotiations" and is "open to them". What does that tell us about this war? That he's worn out and wants an end? Probably doesn't have enough conventional power left to go beyond another month or so? The sanctions are biting him hard and he wants to end this before his system collapses?

One thing is for sure, I believe after this war, Russia won't ever be able to start another conflict with anyone. I think it would take it another 10 years to gain lost everything, weapons, man, training, experience, economy, etc, etc.









Putin says Russia ready to negotiate over Ukraine, Kyiv says Moscow doesn't want talks


MOSCOW (Reuters) -Russia is ready to negotiate with all parties involved in the war in Ukraine but Kyiv and its Western backers have refused to engage in talks, President Vladimir Putin said in an interview aired on Sunday. Russia's Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine has triggered the most deadly...




news.yahoo.com

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## Viet

Broccoli said:


> I've noticed that Russians aren't even using that many tanks in Bakhmut and sends soldiers into battle almost like we were living in year 1915 instead of 2022.
> 
> Crazy stuff.


That’s the big question where are russian tanks? They apparently run out of tanks. The Russians, the wagners, the Chechens they all run barefoot against Ukraine defense lines like lemmings. Otherwise with tanks they can easily overrun bar wires set up by Ukraine defense forces.







Ukrainische Soldaten bereiten Straßensperren in Bachmut vor.
(Foto: picture alliance/dpa/AP)

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## thetutle

It has become apparent to me that Russia is fighting this war like its fighting against ukraine only. 

I don't see it doing anything to show it realises that its up against NATO weapons and NATO command and control architecture. 

As a consequence, I predict it will end very badly for Russia.


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## nangyale

Alas @Hassan Al-Somal is banned.
This thread will be another NATOist circle jerk from now on.
Congratulations to the moderators.

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## SIPRA

nangyale said:


> Alas @Hassan Al-Somal is banned.
> This thread will be another NATOist circle jerk from now on.
> Congratulations to the moderators.



He was the one of the 2 main posters, other being @The SC, who were providing information from the Russian perspective and angle.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607104798678974464

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> no comparison. Ukraine soldiers are obliged to do their duties otherwise they will stand before military court or worse. Zelinskki is the elected president and as such he has the absolute authority to command the army. I am surprised to tell you the most natural thing.
> 
> Putin in contrast is a thief. He just want to steal. Nothing else.


wasn't there complaint about Ukraine recruit unproportionally more Hungarian for the war compared to other minorities ?
why they are more obliged to participate in this war ?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606348008261652492


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## jhungary

People here seems to bitch about no one is providing the Russian Perspective here and afraid this is going to become a NATO circle Jerk. Let me provide some Russian Prospective

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## khansaheeb

Horse_Rider said:


> I can assure you, IK wasn't taken out on ANY CIA operation. In Pakistan, it's VERY easy to blame the US for all of our problems and get people lined up trusting it. In fact that's probably the easiest way to blame America for whatever and get sympathies. What IK and his people on this very forum didn't tell you, was that he didn't do anything for 4 years, made the Chinese stop work on many projects, upset the US, EU and even Saudi Arabia, and we were in a ditch with the IMF not issuing proceeds to a loan he signed due to him not following signed commitments. The military created him and backed off when they saw all this. Result? His opponents brought a change in the assembly and took him out. But his followers blame the Army / CIA / Opposition every minutes of the day.
> 
> On Topic, the Russian President today (3rd time this week) said that he wants to start "negotiations" and is "open to them". What does that tell us about this war? That he's worn out and wants an end? Probably doesn't have enough conventional power left to go beyond another month or so? The sanctions are biting him hard and he wants to end this before his system collapses?
> 
> One thing is for sure, I believe after this war, Russia won't ever be able to start another conflict with anyone. I think it would take it another 10 years to gain lost everything, weapons, man, training, experience, economy, etc, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin says Russia ready to negotiate over Ukraine, Kyiv says Moscow doesn't want talks
> 
> 
> MOSCOW (Reuters) -Russia is ready to negotiate with all parties involved in the war in Ukraine but Kyiv and its Western backers have refused to engage in talks, President Vladimir Putin said in an interview aired on Sunday. Russia's Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine has triggered the most deadly...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com


Change in Pakistan isn't going to be pain free and it is going to come at a price. PTI was right to review relations with non productive and hostile entities and it was contradictory with some people's investments who oppose the resetting of relations for their self interests. No two ways about it is that foreign agencies are actively involved and active in Pakistan and are have moles controlling our country through big purse strings.


----------



## Stranagor

The SC said:


> Russian President Vladimir Plans Fresh Attack On Ukraine's Kyiv | Russia Vs Ukraine War Update LIVE​



I do not know what happened to the initial secret plan?


----------



## Stranagor

Viet said:


> That’s the big question where are russian tanks? They apparently run out of tanks. The Russians, the wagners, the Chechens they all run barefoot against Ukraine defense lines like lemmings. Otherwise with tanks they can easily overrun bar wires set up by Ukraine defense forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainische Soldaten bereiten Straßensperren in Bachmut vor.
> (Foto: picture alliance/dpa/AP)




These are all master strokes involving publicly known secret plans by a brilliant strategist playing incredible mind games.


----------



## That Guy

nangyale said:


> Alas @Hassan Al-Somal is banned.
> This thread will be another NATOist circle jerk from now on.
> Congratulations to the moderators.


He was banned because he kept insulting people.

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606300584243601412

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL drones for Jets... Guess the Rusky really got the short end of the stick. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607152675816079360
Engel base in Russia has been struck. Report said 3 dead, 4 injured with Tu-95 Bear bomber being damaged

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607186888829571072

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## sammuel

Broccoli said:


> "Brothers morale not very high"
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607085505291898882




That is sick. Shows you what sort of total lack of human rights exists in Russia toady .

Reminds me that during World War II , general Patton was removed from the invasion force , for slapping a soldier , and was forced to apologies to him . Many demanded that he would be removed from office completely , only Eisenhower was not willing to give up , one of his most skilled generals :











George S. Patton slapping incidents - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







~




nangyale said:


> Alas @Hassan Al-Somal is banned.
> This thread will be another NATOist circle jerk from now on.
> Congratulations to the moderators.





SIPRA said:


> He was the one of the 2 main posters, other being @The SC, who were providing information from the Russian perspective and angle.



The truth is that his dirty mouth was tolerated for much longer here , exactly because he was one of the few who provided " information from the Russian perspective " , if you want to call it that.

Seems he noticed that , and started to take advantage , not only on this thread but others.

~

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## Horse_Rider

khansaheeb said:


> Change in Pakistan isn't going to be pain free and it is going to come at a price. PTI was right to review relations with non productive and hostile entities and it was contradictory with some people's investments who oppose the resetting of relations for their self interests. No two ways about it is that foreign agencies are actively involved and active in Pakistan and are have moles controlling our country through big purse strings.



Speaks someone sitting in UK interfering with the Pakistani state's affairs! Does the King know you are collecting his welfare and poking nose in a country's affairs that you no longer have a direct relationship with? Your name "Khansaheeb" gives up everything! Backing IK based on your ethnic brotherhood vs. caring the country? These ethnic politics won't work as Pakistan belongs to 220 million Pakistanis, not 30 million Pashtuns (and by the way, I'm a Pathan myself!), I just put Pakistan above my roots and know MAJORITY should have a right to vote whoever they want in, vs. a Pashtun to be voted in by hook or crook. IK's inspired by Hitler and Trump! He wants to use the Army as his police and wants to be above the law like Trump. Doesn't work like that. 

*Let's not derail the thread. *

On topic: Putin again, for the 3rd time asked for "negotiations". What does everyone think? Is Russia going towards the same end like Afghanistan? It's going to eventually admit defeat? What does everyone think?

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## alimobin memon

sammuel said:


> That is sick. Shows you what sort of total lack of human rights exists in Russia toady .
> 
> Reminds me that during World War II , general Patton was removed from the invasion force , for slapping a soldier , and was forced to apologies to him . Many demanded that he would be removed from office completely , only Eisenhower was not willing to give up , one of his most skilled generals :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George S. Patton slapping incidents - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is that his dirty mouth was tolerated for much longer here , exactly because he was one of the few who provided " information from the Russian perspective " , if you want to call it that.
> 
> Seems he noticed that , and started to take advantage , not only on this thread but others.
> 
> ~


Removing someone who has different perspective. His post were about Russian side attacks on Ukrainian forces and that what made this thread balanced. Now this thread is one sided. However, the intellectuals know that reality of war is hidden. If internet is showing you footages than remember footages are footages showing one decimal point of a certain angle. Reality is that its still too early to say Russia is getting the beating.



Horse_Rider said:


> Speaks someone sitting in UK interfering with the Pakistani state's affairs! Does the King know you are collecting his welfare and poking nose in a country's affairs that you no longer have a direct relationship with? Your name "Khansaheeb" gives up everything! Backing IK based on your ethnic brotherhood vs. caring the country? These ethnic politics won't work as Pakistan belongs to 220 million Pakistanis, not 30 million Pashtuns (and by the way, I'm a Pathan myself!), I just put Pakistan above my roots and know MAJORITY should have a right to vote whoever they want in, vs. a Pashtun to be voted in by hook or crook. IK's inspired by Hitler and Trump! He wants to use the Army as his police and wants to be above the law like Trump. Doesn't work like that.
> 
> *Let's not derail the thread. *
> 
> On topic: Putin again, for the 3rd time asked for "negotiations". What does everyone think? Is Russia going towards the same end like Afghanistan? It's going to eventually admit defeat? What does everyone think?


Countries like Russia always have room for negotiation because they have too much at stake. However, too early to say Russia admitting defeat but I don't see war going more than 6 months from now. We will see lesser number of attacks from Russia and then Russia going back but it will get some land but fraction of what it wanted from this "operation".

Then, Russia will comeback after 5 to 6 years. That's the pattern, observe the pattern.

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## Viet

Horse_Rider said:


> Speaks someone sitting in UK interfering with the Pakistani state's affairs! Does the King know you are collecting his welfare and poking nose in a country's affairs that you no longer have a direct relationship with? Your name "Khansaheeb" gives up everything! Backing IK based on your ethnic brotherhood vs. caring the country? These ethnic politics won't work as Pakistan belongs to 220 million Pakistanis, not 30 million Pashtuns (and by the way, I'm a Pathan myself!), I just put Pakistan above my roots and know MAJORITY should have a right to vote whoever they want in, vs. a Pashtun to be voted in by hook or crook. IK's inspired by Hitler and Trump! He wants to use the Army as his police and wants to be above the law like Trump. Doesn't work like that.
> 
> *Let's not derail the thread. *
> 
> On topic: Putin again, for the 3rd time asked for "negotiations". What does everyone think? Is Russia going towards the same end like Afghanistan? It's going to eventually admit defeat? What does everyone think?


Yes also I noticed he is a bit quiet, he is not as much as aggressive as before. Much like a rat in the corner that seeks a way out. However his speeches are still filled with hatred on Ukraine, on the West, on the NATO. He says 99.9 percent russians support him. He threatens with nukes. So what is the basis for negotiation?
As for Ukraine unthinkable it will ever accept Putin as negotiation partner. Least since Putin’s troops committed massacres in Butcha and Mariupol.

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## thetutle

alimobin memon said:


> Countries like Russia always have room for negotiation because they have too much at stake. However, too early to say Russia admitting defeat but I don't see war going more than 6 months from now. We will see lesser number of attacks from Russia and then Russia going back but it will get some land but fraction of what it wanted from this "operation".
> 
> Then, Russia will comeback after 5 to 6 years. That's the pattern, observe the pattern.


if there si a peace, there will be a setup where ukraine cant be attacked anymore and if they are it will draw NATO in automatically, otherwise there wont be a peace ukraine will accept. 

And I dont think NATO can dictate to Ukraine. If ukraine is left on its own it will just fall and that would be unacceptable to NATO. So the fighting stops when Ukraine says it stops.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> Thats defamation right there. But since I am not identified, I cant sue you. Although I would love to, just to show you how things are done.
> 
> now you are getting it.
> 
> well, yes. sure.
> 
> errr, yes it does. Telling the truth is permitted. You can call any convicted criminal a criminal and it would be ok. you can call a person who is 150 cm tall a "hey there 150cm tall person". if they find the truth offensive that is not your problem. Thats not how society functions. Or the legal system.
> 
> What this woman did in your article is accuse an innocent man of being a criminal. This is terrible and she was rightfully convinced of Libel. And she also defamed him and I hope he can take some of her money. Had he been a criminal, in this case a rapist, she would be fine.
> 
> Instead she got a criminal conviction. And rightly so. It was something she maintained was factual.
> 
> Instead I am offering an opinion that some people are CIA assets and this is very good and noble thing. You do not think less of them, noone in their right mind in Sweden would think badly of CIA assets. This is something great. They should be proud. I would love it if they spent a million $ suing me for this. I would have a big old laugh.
> 
> I am Still waiting for my speeding and parking tickets from Sweden to arrive so I can pay them. Its been about 12 years. And I go to europe all the time. If they cant send me a speeding ticket when I've given them my address, how the heck are they going to do anything?


Make the comments in the thread I opened to avoid cluttering this thread.


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## Viet

thetutle said:


> if there si a peace, there will be a setup where ukraine cant be attacked anymore and if they are it will draw NATO in automatically, otherwise there wont be a peace ukraine will accept.
> 
> And I dont think NATO can dictate to Ukraine. If ukraine is left on its own it will just fall and that would be unacceptable to NATO. So the fighting stops when Ukraine says it stops.


Russia is at mercy of Putin. The russians put their country at the hand of an ex spy. This war will continue as long as Putin is alive. He is president until 2036, when he will be 83. He will most likely change the constitutions again so he can remain in power until he dies of old age or fall dead of heart attack like Stalin.

Putin has reversed all economic gains of Russia in the last 30 years. When this war is over Russia will become a failed state like Venezuela. Rich in oil and gas but unable to extract it to sell to foreigners to import toilet paper.

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## nangyale

That Guy said:


> He was banned because he kept insulting people.


No, he is banned because of spineless NATOists like yourself who can not take view from the opposite side. And confuse opposing view as a personal insult.
Anyways you can rejoice with your fellow propagandists and continue with the circle jerk.

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## aziqbal

Russian value chicken life more than human life

A human life to Russian is like nothing zero

Sad how terribly inhumane they are

But seems like Russia will never give up

This war has gone for almost 1 year

And Russians are coming back in the spring with 300,000 men

So what exactly will Ukraine do to hold back this attack

They need men and weapons without men is not a good strategy

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## Hack-Hook

aziqbal said:


> And Russians are coming back in the spring with 300,000 men


in spring their equiopment will stuck in mud and soft ground , anything they want to do they must do in summer and winter


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## aziqbal

Hack-Hook said:


> in spring their equiopment will stuck in mud and soft ground , anything they want to do they must do in summer and winter



no it didnt happen last year Russian invaded 24th Feb 2022


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## Hack-Hook

aziqbal said:


> no it didnt happen last year Russian invaded 24th Feb 2022


and they stuck in the mud left and right after two month of war , it means at the end of the first month of spring the Ukrainian farmers begin towing the abandoned Russian tanks and BMPs with tractors


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## Broccoli

nangyale said:


> No, he is banned because of spineless NATOists like yourself who can not take view from the opposite side. And confuse opposing view as a personal insult.
> Anyways you can rejoice with your fellow propagandists and continue with the circle jerk.



More like pro-Russians want to continue pretending that Russia is a superpower and demand that everyone else should believe their nonsense.

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## alimobin memon

Broccoli said:


> More like pro-Russians want to continue pretending that Russia is a superpower and demand that everyone else should believe their nonsense.


Whether Pro-Russians believe or not that is another debate and that is there very right to do so. Banning them is not right. Until or unless they abused someone or used foul language.

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## Viet

Ukraine drones attacking the second time the Russia angels airbase. The host of Russia nuclear bombers. 600km from Ukraine border. Putin won’t be amused.







Ukraine carried out the attack with drones and the help of a military reconnaissance unit coordinating it deep inside Russian territory | Sergei Supinsky/AFP via Getty Images









Drone attack hits Russia’s Engels airbase for second time in a month


Raid will be seen as a further sign of Ukraine’s increased willingness to carry out long-range attacks against threats in Russia.




www.politico.eu

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## sammuel

Viet said:


> Ukraine drones attacking the second time the Russia angels airbase. The host of Russia nuclear bombers. 600km from Ukraine border. Putin won’t be amused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine carried out the attack with drones and the help of a military reconnaissance unit coordinating it deep inside Russian territory | Sergei Supinsky/AFP via Getty Images
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drone attack hits Russia’s Engels airbase for second time in a month
> 
> 
> Raid will be seen as a further sign of Ukraine’s increased willingness to carry out long-range attacks against threats in Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu












Ukraine war: Drone attack on Russian bomber base leaves three dead


The airbase, used by Russian planes targeting Ukraine, is hit for the second time this month.



www.bbc.com










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607216682032062464

~


----------



## Ali_Baba

sammuel said:


> Ukraine war: Drone attack on Russian bomber base leaves three dead
> 
> 
> The airbase, used by Russian planes targeting Ukraine, is hit for the second time this month.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607170110900555777
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607216682032062464
> 
> ~



Erm - so what the fabled and super "amazing" S400 system doing while this airbase was being attacked?

As i have said before - and will say again - Russian Airdefence systems like the S400 are just rubbish - overhyped nonsense if they could not detect and shoot down a modified 1960's reconnisance drone ....

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## Ali_Baba

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607290106242830339
Merry Xmas to the Russians .. "HIMARS - ho - ho - ho " ... lol.

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## TopGun786

So 


nangyale said:


> Alas @Hassan Al-Somal is banned.
> This thread will be another NATOist circle jerk from now on.
> Congratulations to the moderators.


Now on this thread will be one sided and boring.

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## SIPRA

TopGun786 said:


> Now on this thread will be one sided and boring.



One sided perspectives invariably lead to misinformation and distortions.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607043973226401794
Dmitry Medvedev in a long article marking the end of 2022:
The world will continue to walk on the brink of a third world war and a nuclear catastrophe if security guarantees are not provided to Russia

4:06 PM Dec 25, 2022
https://twitter.com/Roaastudies?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1607120688086937601|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=
https://twitter.com
@Roaastudies


Incendiary bombs thrown by Russian forces to target Ukrainian forces in Marinka

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607120474605236224


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606945974802436097

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607378890154184704
Russia is on the verge of losing Kreminna

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## F-22Raptor

Also looks like Russias offensive on Bakhmut has culminated and failed. Russians have been pushed back on that front.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607143579767508992


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607399401521311744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607408767855112192




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607404771933028352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607369110295298048

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## Ali_Baba

Another Putin critic 'falls out a window' to his death: Sausage tycoon plummets from luxury hotel​








Another Putin critic 'falls out a window' to his death


Sausage multi-millionaire Pavel Antov (pictured), from the main pro-Putin party United Russia, had been on a trip to celebrate his upcoming 66th birthday.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> If Putin spent half the time he spends on assisinating his critics as he did on the war - then things might even be going better for him!!!

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## Battlion25

Ali_Baba said:


> Another Putin critic 'falls out a window' to his death: Sausage tycoon plummets from luxury hotel​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Putin critic 'falls out a window' to his death
> 
> 
> Sausage multi-millionaire Pavel Antov (pictured), from the main pro-Putin party United Russia, had been on a trip to celebrate his upcoming 66th birthday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> If Putin spent half the time he spends on assisinating his critics as he did on the war - then things might even be going better for him!!!



location of incident?


----------



## That Guy

nangyale said:


> No, he is banned because of spineless NATOists like yourself who can not take view from the opposite side. And confuse opposing view as a personal insult.
> Anyways you can rejoice with your fellow propagandists and continue with the circle jerk.


So calling people cowards, and idiots, and morons, and even worse words which I won't use aren't insults? Good to know.

While it's very clear that you have 100% drunk the Russian propaganda kool-aid, I have to say that the mods tend to not ban people simply on their political opinions. Otherwise, half the forum would have been banned by now.

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## Viet

Battlion25 said:


> location of incident?


Assassination is a specialty of the Wagner hooligans, because that’s a private army, Putin can say he has nothing to do. Or carried out by his special service FSB.
That’s official, as a German court officially said it. They killed an opponent in Berlin in broad daylight light.









Mord im Kleinen Tiergarten in Berlin: Lebenslang für Vadim Krasikov


Mehr als zwei Jahre nach den tödlichen Schüssen auf einen Georgier mitten in Berlin ist ein Russe zu lebenslanger Haft verurteilt worden. Die Berliner Richter sehen in der Tat einen Mord im Auftrag russischer Stellen.




www.spiegel.de

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## jhungary

aziqbal said:


> Russian value chicken life more than human life
> 
> A human life to Russian is like nothing zero
> 
> Sad how terribly inhumane they are
> 
> But seems like Russia will never give up
> 
> This war has gone for almost 1 year
> 
> And Russians are coming back in the spring with 300,000 men
> 
> So what exactly will Ukraine do to hold back this attack
> 
> They need men and weapons without men is not a good strategy


They don't have 300,000 men anymore. it is estimated they had put at least 150,000 in the current frontline already. 

The problem for Russia since Feb is NOT manpower, but the ability to support that manpower, putting more men in the frontline on an aggressive stance won't solve that problem, in fact, it will only make it worse. 

Russian need road, railway and aircraft to transport supply to the frontline, not more man in the front so they in turn took up more supply.



That Guy said:


> So calling people cowards, and idiots, and morons, and even worse words which I won't use aren't insults? Good to know.
> 
> While it's very clear that you have 100% drunk the Russian propaganda kool-aid, I have to say that the mods tend to not ban people simply on their political opinions. Otherwise, half the forum would have been banned by now.


The forum is now going the NATO perspective is not because the Mod are banning all the pro-Russian voice, but rather Russia didn't make any noise since maybe July this year when they take Lysychansk, all the way it's the same old hindering and languishing in the frontline. 

That picture I posted early is not really a joke, but quite reflecting the current situation.

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine peace summit by February says Kuleba - potentially with Russia


Ukraine is aiming to hold a peace summit by the end of February, the Ukrainian foreign minister said.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Interesting - Ukraine may be looking to establish new facts on the ground before any talks kick off - and i cannot see the fighting stopping while "talks" go on. Terms possibly discussed during the recent trip to the USA between Biden and Zelensky(speculation on my part).


----------



## Deino

alimobin memon said:


> Whether Pro-Russians believe or not that is another debate and that is there very right to do so. Banning them is not right. *Until or unless they abused someone or used foul language.*





nangyale said:


> No, he is banned because of spineless NATOists like yourself who can not take view from the opposite side. And confuse opposing view as a personal insult.
> Anyways you can rejoice with your fellow propagandists and continue with the circle jerk.



And that‘s exactly what he did repeatedly …

As such it may be indeed a loss since the pro-Russian side is no longer shown at the same level, but since he constantly had to abuse and insult others, that he always applauded even the worst crimes and attacks even against civilians, taht he tried to justify any suffering of Ukrainian civilians with his hate against the West is not acceptable.

One can indeed have a different opinion, but at least we should stay civilised and it should be clear than any injustice against Muslims, Palestinians or whoever by the US, NATO or the West justifies similar injustices or violence against Ukraine.

So that‘s it

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

Despite its proximity to Russia, Kazakhstan donates generators for hospitals to Kiev - Today Times Live


Kazakhstan has handed over generators to Ukraine to alleviate the energy crisis. "We have received a wonderful gift under the Christmas tree from our brother people of Kazakhstan: 41 powerful generators for our medical facilities," the Ukrainian Ministry of Health announced on Facebook. The move...




todaytimeslive.com





Kazachstan falling more out of Russias grasp/control. Donates generators to ukraine. 

And some still think this was a master move by russia “squeezing” Nato.

While instead they:

Turned 80% ukraine into a hardline enemy
Turned Kazakhstan away from them
Turned europe from eager gas customers to opponents
Got non USA Nato members to double and triple defense budget (dwarfing russias even more)
Got 2 neutral countries to join Nato. 
Terrible promotion for their arm industry worldwide.

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## F-22Raptor

ZeGerman said:


> Despite its proximity to Russia, Kazakhstan donates generators for hospitals to Kiev - Today Times Live
> 
> 
> Kazakhstan has handed over generators to Ukraine to alleviate the energy crisis. "We have received a wonderful gift under the Christmas tree from our brother people of Kazakhstan: 41 powerful generators for our medical facilities," the Ukrainian Ministry of Health announced on Facebook. The move...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> todaytimeslive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kazachstan falling more out of Russias grasp/control. Donates generators to ukraine.
> 
> And some still think this was a master move by russia “squeezing” Nato.
> 
> While instead they:
> 
> Turned 80% ukraine into a hardline enemy
> Turned Kazakhstan away from them
> Turned europe from eager gas customers to opponents
> Got non USA Nato members to double and triple defense budget (dwarfing russias even more)
> Got 2 neutral countries to join Nato.
> Terrible promotion for their arm industry worldwide.



It’s been a complete disaster for Russia. Ukraine is now firmly aligned with the West for at least the next 50 years. Ukraine will never forget who were beside their side at their darkest hour.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607355691551064064

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## khansaheeb

Horse_Rider said:


> Speaks someone sitting in UK interfering with the Pakistani state's affairs! Does the King know you are collecting his welfare and poking nose in a country's affairs that you no longer have a direct relationship with? Your name "Khansaheeb" gives up everything! Backing IK based on your ethnic brotherhood vs. caring the country? These ethnic politics won't work as Pakistan belongs to 220 million Pakistanis, not 30 million Pashtuns (and by the way, I'm a Pathan myself!), I just put Pakistan above my roots and know MAJORITY should have a right to vote whoever they want in, vs. a Pashtun to be voted in by hook or crook. IK's inspired by Hitler and Trump! He wants to use the Army as his police and wants to be above the law like Trump. Doesn't work like that.
> 
> *Let's not derail the thread. *
> 
> On topic: Putin again, for the 3rd time asked for "negotiations". What does everyone think? Is Russia going towards the same end like Afghanistan? It's going to eventually admit defeat? What does everyone think?


Lol, you are funny dude, all your premises are incorrect and just wild speculation. I am not even in the UK and certainly not a Pathan. I have a stake in Pakistan because my family have given their blood and soul for the country and I have every right to ensure Pakistan's success. My Grandfather was one of the first soldiers of Pakistan and I have many relatives who have served and are serving in Pakistan army.



That Guy said:


> He was banned because he kept insulting people.


We will have one sided reports now , such a loss to PDF hope his ban is temporary.

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## khansaheeb

aziqbal said:


> Russian value chicken life more than human life
> 
> A human life to Russian is like nothing zero
> 
> Sad how terribly inhumane they are
> 
> But seems like Russia will never give up
> 
> This war has gone for almost 1 year
> 
> And Russians are coming back in the spring with 300,000 men
> 
> So what exactly will Ukraine do to hold back this attack
> 
> They need men and weapons without men is not a good strategy


Zelinsky is the problem , ever since he came to power it has been a disaster for Ukraine. Neocons took advantage for their global strategic reasons main one being to to weaken Russia's support for Syria but the reason being peddled is to weaken Russia. Ukraine and Russia will eventually have to negotiate peace so why do it after all the death and destruction, doesn't make sense. Strategically this war is empowering China as the US and NATO spend billions on a futile war. China will be the winner whatever the outcome as it will use Russia for economic gains and will receive cheap oil for cheap weapons. India is benefiting too as it is getting cheap oil and commodities from Russia whilst the US and NATO turn a hypocritical blind eye. Stupid Pakistan has been leashed and strangled by the IMF as it further sinks and destined to be pushed into a failed state. 

Putin won't renew his presidency but will pass it on to a person of his choice just like how he was chosen.

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## The SC

New updates on the Ukrainian attack on the Russian base..and much more.. also a lot of Russian attacks and many clashes..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607480873091477506

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607343119120601088

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## Reashot Xigwin

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607480873091477506


LOL Texas & Mexico joining in an union. 

Also fourth Reich? I wish then maybe the German can grow some balls for once and pull another barbarossa and win this time.

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## Stranagor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607043973226401794
> Dmitry Medvedev in a long article marking the end of 2022:
> The world will continue to walk on the brink of a third world war and a nuclear catastrophe if security guarantees are not provided to Russia
> 
> 4:06 PM Dec 25, 2022
> https://twitter.com/Roaastudies?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1607120688086937601|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=
> https://twitter.com
> @Roaastudies
> 
> 
> Incendiary bombs thrown by Russian forces to target Ukrainian forces in Marinka
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607120474605236224
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606945974802436097



Medvedev has indeed turned very deranged, which is strange because he used to be seen as a smoother version of a Putin puppet in a bad cop good cop game. Now it seems it is a worse cop-the worst cop game. 









‘I hate them’: Dmitry Medvedev’s journey from liberal to anti-western hawk


Critics say former Russian leader’s furious tirades are a desperate attempt to retain political relevance




www.google.com

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## patero

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL Texas & Mexico joining in an union.
> 
> Also fourth Reich? I wish then maybe the German can grow some balls for once and pull another barbarossa and win this time.


And the idea that 45 trillion $US in US stocks and 16 trillion $ US in European stocks are just going to get up and move themselves to Asia, without any explanation, is a bit fanciful.

I'd actually like to hear him explain why this is going to happen.

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## jhungary

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL Texas & Mexico joining in an union.
> 
> Also fourth Reich? I wish then maybe the German can grow some balls for once and pull another barbarossa and win this time.


Dude didn't even know Texans are the die hard on keeping Title 42 to KEEP MEXICAN OUT......

Yeah, I would like to see a day when Mexico recover Texas.....

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## khansaheeb

wtf, it's snowing Napalm in Ukraine?:-


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607120474605236224


----------



## Viet

Finally,

Ukraine defense minister Olexij Resnikow says 41,000 Ukraine female soldiers will get receive new uniforms, underwear, shoes. Until now they wear men stuffs.
Not good.
5,000 female soldiers fight direct on the front, in diverse formations from artillery, infantry to tanks.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## A.P. Richelieu

alimobin memon said:


> Whether Pro-Russians believe or not that is another debate and that is there very right to do so. Banning them is not right. Until or unless they abused someone or used foul language.


Which is of course the real reason why he was banned.
Bans are sometimes time limited, so he might be back, unless he is reassigned.



Battlion25 said:


> location of incident?


Paveway outside the hotel.


----------



## Viet

Stranagor said:


> Medvedev had indeed turned very deranged, which is strange because he used to be seen as a smoother version of a Puttin puppet in a bad cop good cop game. Now it seems it is a worse cop-the worst cop game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘I hate them’: Dmitry Medvedev’s journey from liberal to anti-western hawk
> 
> 
> Critics say former Russian leader’s furious tirades are a desperate attempt to retain political relevance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


Putin, Medwedew, Peskow, Lavrov live in their own created propaganda bubble.
For instance Russia has the largest nuclear stockpile, they have short and medium range nuclear missiles pointing to Europe. While Europe none. Russia missiles in Kaliningrad will take minutes before landing in my garden. However they seriously demand security assurance for themselves from others, Ukraine, from the US, from the EU.

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## kingQamaR

Okay seriously where has all the money that Russia invested heavily into the military in the past decade gone if they're jets/planes/military hardware within Russian borders are being destroyed

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## The SC

khansaheeb said:


> wtf, it's snowing Napalm in Ukraine?:-
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607120474605236224




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607112697430122499

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607473776173752321

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## S10

kingQamaR said:


> Okay seriously where has all the money that Russia invested heavily into the military in the past decade gone if they're jets/planes/military hardware within Russian borders are being destroyed


Generals need their Mercedes G-Wagons and politicians need their yachts and mansions.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607477025962430465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607507481265340417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607482679464804352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607462312641986560

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## kingQamaR

S10 said:


> Generals need their Mercedes G-Wagons and politicians need their yachts and mansions.



I think your right, The money has gone into mega yachts (as already mentioned) and buying up property outside Russia (especially London).

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607685537581924353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607678040045142024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607661157472473088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607679260202004482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607639982222770178

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## reflecthofgeismar



Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607285144288641024

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1


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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine's Azov soldiers burn Viking longboat to honour comrades


The battalion, whose final stand fiercely defending the Azovstal steel plant in the Siege of Mariupol drew praise from around the world, gathered in the Rivne region of Ukraine for the touching tribute.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## vi-va

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s been a complete disaster for Russia. Ukraine is now firmly aligned with the West for at least the next 50 years. Ukraine will never forget who were beside their side at their darkest hour.


War create nation


----------



## Viet

reflecthofgeismar said:


> View attachment 907900


E: Demanding Ukraine to surrender although Russia army is retreating, and on verge of collapse.









Russia Says Ukraine Must Surrender Even as Putin’s Army Retreats


Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Ukraine must surrender or face continued war, even as Moscow’s troops have been forced to retreat in a series of damaging defeats.




www.bloomberg.com

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## ZeGerman

reflecthofgeismar said:


> View attachment 907900


Hahaha epic post!

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> E: Demanding Ukraine to surrender although Russia army is retreating, and on verge of collapse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Says Ukraine Must Surrender Even as Putin’s Army Retreats
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Ukraine must surrender or face continued war, even as Moscow’s troops have been forced to retreat in a series of damaging defeats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com



Ukraine needs to give Russia more of an *** whooping on the battlefield - it seems that they have not learnt anything yet..

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## mike2000 is back

khansaheeb said:


> Zelinsky is the problem , ever since he came to power it has been a disaster for Ukraine. Neocons took advantage for their global strategic reasons main one being to to weaken Russia's support for Syria but the reason being peddled is to weaken Russia. Ukraine and Russia will eventually have to negotiate peace so why do it after all the death and destruction, doesn't make sense. Strategically this war is empowering China as the US and NATO spend billions on a futile war. China will be the winner whatever the outcome as it will use Russia for economic gains and will receive cheap oil for cheap weapons. India is benefiting too as it is getting cheap oil and commodities from Russia whilst the US and NATO turn a hypocritical blind eye. Stupid Pakistan has been leashed and strangled by the IMF as it further sinks and destined to be pushed into a failed state.
> 
> Putin won't renew his presidency but will pass it on to a person of his choice just like how he was chosen.


Lol Hope you are joking

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beny Karachun

Deino said:


> And that‘s exactly what he did repeatedly …
> 
> As such it may be indeed a loss since the pro-Russian side is no longer shown at the same level, but since he constantly had to abuse and insult others, that he always applauded even the worst crimes and attacks even against civilians, taht he tried to justify any suffering of Ukrainian civilians with his hate against the West is not acceptable.
> 
> One can indeed have a different opinion, but at least we should stay civilised and it should be clear than any injustice against Muslims, Palestinians or whoever by the US, NATO or the West justifies similar injustices or violence against Ukraine.
> 
> So that‘s it


I was banned a bunch of times and I'm one of the only Israelis on this forum, honestly it's easy not to be banned, just don't insult people



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607355691551064064


Lmfao

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## mike2000 is back

sammuel said:


> Ukraine war: Drone attack on Russian bomber base leaves three dead
> 
> 
> The airbase, used by Russian planes targeting Ukraine, is hit for the second time this month.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607216682032062464
> 
> ~


Seriously this conflict has made the Russian military "superpower" a laughing stock globally. 😅😆

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607776678088183809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607718413430050816

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## mike2000 is back

925boy said:


> sure, lets continue.
> 
> might've? how is that a "might've" when NATO told Ukraine how to start building trenches in east Ukraine since 2014?
> 
> themselves? I mean, its only their country and citizens being destroyed at the quickest and most consistent rate in the war, especially now..
> 
> well well well....foolish Ukraine should've realized that disregarding the regional hegemon's concerns and interests leads to bad messes that quickly become regret for a country like Ukraine. be wise!, but Ukraine wasnt- NATO egged Ukraine's bich azz to actually provoke and threaten Russia- so now we have to find out if that was smart or dumb.
> 
> prove this, because you talk is cheap, especailly yours.
> 
> IS that Why Russia had to BUST Georgia's butt in 2008 when NATO AGAIN was trying to integrate another former soviet bloc country on Russia's border into NATO? who had imperial ambitions then? Russia or NATO? NATO is the imperial bastard that has to have its back broken now- the neo nazi movement of the modern era- its just causing problems all over the world - but Ukraine is its waterloo- NATO will never be the same after this war.
> 
> 
> 
> then why does Ukraine keep losing bits of most territories and towns on the frontline these days? Ukrainian soldiers dont even have enough artillery for a war..sitting ducks..smh. those good troops arent irreplaceable you know?


Agree. Similarly Iran should have just given up and negotiate with Saddam Hussein when he invaded Iran, instead of keep fighting for their country and leading to the deaths of over a million Iranians which led to a situation where Iran was even running out of experienced manpower to fight so they had to even start using civilians and even children to the frontlines. Lol I blame the Mullah for not giving up and allowing Iraq to have some sort of control and influence over Iran. They could have avoided the war and catastrophic destruction caused by Iraq by surrendering and giving up to Iraq who was kind of like a regional military hegemon back then. 😁

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## Ali_Baba

Putin's chief poisoner 'fired from FSB for criticising Ukraine war'


Colonel-General Eduard Chernovoltsev, 52, was in overall charge of NII-2 FSB, a research institute which develops deadly poisons used against Kremlin foes such as Alexei Navalny.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: gaphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607782808742756352

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine war: Five ways conflict could go in 2023


As the conflict enters its second calendar year, experts predict what could happen on the ground.



www.bbc.co.uk







> Both sides need a pause but the Ukrainians are better equipped and motivated to keep going, and we can expect them to maintain the pressure, at least in the Donbas.
> *Around Kreminna and Svatove they are very close to a big breakthrough that would throw Russian forces 40 miles back to the next natural defensive line, close to where their invasion effectively began in February.*


----------



## kingQamaR

mike2000 is back said:


> Seriously this conflict has made the Russian military "superpower" a laughing stock globally. 😅😆



Between the fleeing of the educated and the killing of the wealthy as well as the loss of a generation of able bodied men Russia is the dumbest country in the world and is only hastening its demise. But that's Putin's choice. This war in Ukraine will only benefit the US, Ukraine and the West. Good to see.

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## Ali_Baba

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607719567538675713

>> Basically Russians have no confidence that their *S400's / S300's / Pantsirs can to protect ONE single airfield *- so have dispersed their planes to be out of reach.

This will have the side affect of limiting air operations against Ukraine as the RuAF have lost the efficiency of military operations given how much infrastructure was localised at that airbase to provide support to the bomber fleet of Tu-95 and Tu-160's at that airbase.

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607719567538675713
> 
> >> Basically Russians have no confidence that their *S400's / S300's / Pantsirs can to protect ONE single airfield *- so have dispersed their planes to be out of reach.
> 
> This will have the side affect of limiting air operations against Ukraine as the RuAF have lost the efficiency of military operations given how much infrastructure was localised at that airbase to provide support to the bomber fleet of Tu-95 and Tu-160's at that airbase.


I am very shocked. My country Vietnam air defense bases on S300 missile defense systems from Russia. If turn out they are useless against chinese air assaults we must ask for money back from Putin. Good, we don’t buy S400 yet.

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## Dalit

Viet said:


> I am very shocked. My country Vietnam air defense bases on S300 missile defense systems from Russia. If turn out they are useless against chinese air assaults we must ask for money back from Putin.



As if Vietnam has any chance against China.



mike2000 is back said:


> Seriously this conflict has made the Russian military "superpower" a laughing stock globally. 😅😆



Russia has captured a handsome amount of Ukrainian territory. They don't care what Western countries think or believe.

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> As if Vietnam has any chance against China.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has captured a handsome amount of Ukrainian territory. They don't care what Western countries think or believe.


We have no chance. We in Vietnam make joke like this: chinese don’t need to invade they just need to line up at the border and pee, we will be drown to death.
I hope they don’t copy Putin and accuse us we oppress chinese speaking people in Saigon or Danang or elsewhere.

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## SIPRA

Dalit said:


> Russia has captured a handsome amount of Ukrainian territory. They don't care what Western countries think or believe.



Zelensky is saying that he will take back every inch of the land taken by Russia. 😃😃

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## Dalit

SIPRA said:


> Zelensky is saying that he will take back every inch of the land taken by Russia. 😃😃



I am sure Russians will surrender.

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## aviator_fan

nangyale said:


> No, he is banned because of spineless NATOists like yourself who can not take view from the opposite side. And confuse opposing view as a personal insult.
> Anyways you can rejoice with your fellow propagandists and continue with the circle jerk.


Great, now we will be like the Kremlin. Always with a singular jerk perspective. Why do the pro-Putin fanboys think thats a bad idea given thats exactly how it is in Russia: no debate, no opinion. Or the Putin lovers only like him as long as they can be in a debate here



Ali_Baba said:


> Another Putin critic 'falls out a window' to his death: Sausage tycoon plummets from luxury hotel​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Putin critic 'falls out a window' to his death
> 
> 
> Sausage multi-millionaire Pavel Antov (pictured), from the main pro-Putin party United Russia, had been on a trip to celebrate his upcoming 66th birthday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> If Putin spent half the time he spends on assisinating his critics as he did on the war - then things might even be going better for him!!!


Tit for tat Retribution: evidently we are all pro-NATO jerks and banned the opponents. PUtin is just throwing his opponents out the window.

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## khansaheeb

mike2000 is back said:


> Lol Hope you are joking


100% Serious.



mike2000 is back said:


> Seriously this conflict has made the Russian military "superpower" a laughing stock globally. 😅😆


It was a laughing stock after being defeated by the Afghans. There are quite a few laughing stocks about.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607727356835254272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607831008631730176

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607683987366940672


----------



## The SC

Offensives from both sides, attacks and counter attacks..


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

Sick and tired of ukraine-russo war, let a near war begin now

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Bakhmut: Inside Ukraine's Bloodiest Fight​


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607734411751038977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607734490209583104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607720847497728005

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Ukraine is throwing everything at it's disposal to protect bakhmut , don't know why bakhmut is so precious to Ukraine

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## ZeGerman

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Ukraine is throwing everything at it's disposal to protect bakhmut , don't know why bakhmut is so precious to Ukraine


Yeah on the whole ukraine has been making better strategic decisions then the russians but sometimes they also join in on a grind match. Similar as in sevastopol. 

Maybe cultural? From soviet times?


----------



## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Finally,
> 
> Ukraine defense minister Olexij Resnikow says 41,000 Ukraine female soldiers will get receive new uniforms, underwear, shoes. Until now they wear men stuffs.
> Not good.
> 5,000 female soldiers fight direct on the front, in diverse formations from artillery, infantry to tanks.
> 
> 
> View attachment 907854


A woman soldier can be so good like a man soldier.

But few men soldiers can be so good next to women, than men fighting alone.

The number of stupid things that men do when women watch them, is endless.


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

ZeGerman said:


> Yeah on the whole ukraine has been making better strategic decisions then the russians but sometimes they also join in on a grind match. Similar as in sevastopol.
> 
> Maybe cultural? From soviet times?


It's not just the Ukrainians tens of hundreds of poles and other nationals are also defending bakhmat as if it's where the Jesus will be resurrected. I don't see a point . All Russia is doing is throwing artillery at bakhmat grinding the opposition . Why is bakhmut so important to Ukraine ?



ZeGerman said:


> Yeah on the whole ukraine has been making better strategic decisions then the russians but sometimes they also join in on a grind match. Similar as in sevastopol.
> 
> Maybe cultural? From soviet times?


Ukraine making strategic decisions lol, it's Nato . There's no more Ukraine even if Russia withdraws today Ukraine will be a vassal state of NATO for it's debt and reconstruction.

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## kingQamaR

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Ukraine is throwing everything at it's disposal to protect bakhmut , don't know why bakhmut is so precious to Ukraine



Bakhmut is the key to sloviansk and kramatorsk and other places like that, it was a key point when Russia controlled Izyum to out pressure on the remaining areas in the Donbas. Now perhaps it’s a sunk cost fallacy


----------



## Ali_Baba

Ukrainian kamikaze drone smashes into a Russian armoured vehicle


The latest footage of the ongoing attacks on Russia shows the drone quickly advancing on a Russian tank as it drives along a single track road in the vast countryside.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> More drone presents for russian soldiers.

All of these are repurposed drones - imagine if/when china creates custom drones for these type of roles.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607796145136500737


----------



## khansaheeb

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Sick and tired of ukraine-russo war, let a near war begin now


seems like you want to join Pakistan army then


----------



## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Ukraine is throwing everything at it's disposal to protect bakhmut , don't know why bakhmut is so precious to Ukraine


The question you should ask is why Bakhmut is so important to the Russian.

For the Ukrainian, their goal is to hinder Russian offensive, either to slow their advance or to buy time for their own counter attack. Which mean for the Ukrainian, any fight is welcome because it take resource and focus off what they are doing. As long as Russia keep attacking Bakhmut, Ukraine will say "Why not"

For the Russian, Bakhmut is not important AT ALL since they loses Lyman and Izyum, because before you need Bakhmut to secure a flank to attack Sloviansk and Kramatorsk which is the only way you can take both city, but now with Izyum and Lyman under Ukrainian Control, that is no longer possible, on the other hand, Bakhmut would be sitting duck even if Russia took it if and when Ukrianian broke thru Svatove.

What Russia is doing now is basically wasting resource and stringing up their troop for some land you don't need to have or have no purpose at all, they already did it twice, focusing on Mariupol means they blunted their Northern Advance and give time the Ukrainian build up their defence to withstand the Russian Assault, which is why it lead to the current situation to begin with. The other time they so focus on Siverodonetsk and Lysychansk they lost both Kharkiv and Kherson because of that. 

This is not a smart way to fight.

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## Stranagor

Ukraine latest: Putin bans Russian oil exports in retaliation for price cap


Drone attack causes deadly explosion at Russian bomber base




asia.nikkei.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607932096995115008

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## alimobin memon

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Which is of course the real reason why he was banned.
> Bans are sometimes time limited, so he might be back, unless he is reassigned.
> 
> 
> Paveway outside the hotel.


What did he do ? Want to clear my footing here


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607776071692292096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607776085181087746


----------



## Viet

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Ukraine is throwing everything at it's disposal to protect bakhmut , don't know why bakhmut is so precious to Ukraine


It’s the opposite, Russia throws everything it has towards Bakhmut. Ukraine is on the defense. It has no choice. If your country is under attack you certainly want to defend every inch. The city has no strategic value.



jhungary said:


> The question you should ask is why Bakhmut is so important to the Russian.
> 
> For the Ukrainian, their goal is to hinder Russian offensive, either to slow their advance or to buy time for their own counter attack. Which mean for the Ukrainian, any fight is welcome because it take resource and focus off what they are doing. As long as Russia keep attacking Bakhmut, Ukraine will say "Why not"
> 
> For the Russian, Bakhmut is not important AT ALL since they loses Lyman and Izyum, because before you need Bakhmut to secure a flank to attack Sloviansk and Kramatorsk which is the only way you can take both city, but now with Izyum and Lyman under Ukrainian Control, that is no longer possible, on the other hand, Bakhmut would be sitting duck even if Russia took it if and when Ukrianian broke thru Svatove.
> 
> What Russia is doing now is basically wasting resource and stringing up their troop for some land you don't need to have or have no purpose at all, they already did it twice, focusing on Mariupol means they blunted their Northern Advance and give time the Ukrainian build up their defence to withstand the Russian Assault, which is why it lead to the current situation to begin with. The other time they so focus on Siverodonetsk and Lysychansk they lost both Kharkiv and Kherson because of that.
> 
> This is not a smart way to fight.


The only consideration that makes sense is Russia army wants to break out of the stalemate and advance further to larger Donbas area.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> I am very shocked. My country Vietnam air defense bases on S300 missile defense systems from Russia. If turn out they are useless against chinese air assaults we must ask for money back from Putin. Good, we don’t buy S400 yet.


if china field those 100+ j20 you think what those s300 can do?



SIPRA said:


> Zelensky is saying that he will take back every inch of the land taken by Russia. 😃😃


good, longer war there mean less war here .
I like these proxy wars

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## PakFactor

Hack-Hook said:


> good, longer war there mean less war here .
> I like these proxy wars



Exactly, best to keep this conflict fueled on European doorsteps.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> if china field those 100+ j20 you think what those s300 can do?
> 
> 
> good, longer war there mean less war here .
> I like these proxy wars


I know too little about chinese aircraft, can’t tell. I think it’s not easy to escape Vietnamese multilayer air defense. The US once attacked Hanoi with 2,200 aircraft in a single battle, so that’s not new to us in terms of air defense. We have a wide range of own developed radars that can detect any objects in theory.

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## Beny Karachun

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607776678088183809
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607718413430050816


Shit that grenade video.

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## vi-va

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Ukraine is throwing everything at it's disposal to protect bakhmut , don't know why bakhmut is so precious to Ukraine


one of the major traffic hub







jhungary said:


> The question you should ask is why Bakhmut is so important to the Russian.
> 
> For the Ukrainian, their goal is to hinder Russian offensive, either to slow their advance or to buy time for their own counter attack. Which mean for the Ukrainian, any fight is welcome because it take resource and focus off what they are doing. As long as Russia keep attacking Bakhmut, Ukraine will say "Why not"
> 
> For the Russian, Bakhmut is not important AT ALL since they loses Lyman and Izyum, because before you need Bakhmut to secure a flank to attack Sloviansk and Kramatorsk which is the only way you can take both city, but now with Izyum and Lyman under Ukrainian Control, that is no longer possible, on the other hand, Bakhmut would be sitting duck even if Russia took it if and when Ukrianian broke thru Svatove.
> 
> What Russia is doing now is basically wasting resource and stringing up their troop for some land you don't need to have or have no purpose at all, they already did it twice, focusing on Mariupol means they blunted their Northern Advance and give time the Ukrainian build up their defence to withstand the Russian Assault, which is why it lead to the current situation to begin with. The other time they so focus on Siverodonetsk and Lysychansk they lost both Kharkiv and Kherson because of that.
> 
> This is not a smart way to fight.


The Russians didn't have a well-thought-out plan in the first place. They didn't have plan B if plan A didn't work.

Wasting Russian youth. Sad for Russians, incompetent leadership.


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> Bakhmut: Inside Ukraine's Bloodiest Fight​


There seems to be a general inability for Both Russians and Ukrainians to have a normal countdown of "one two three". They always seem to substitute it for other words. 


ZeGerman said:


> Yeah on the whole ukraine has been making better strategic decisions then the russians but sometimes they also join in on a grind match. Similar as in sevastopol.
> 
> Maybe cultural? From soviet times?


You suggest Ukraine should abandon Bakhmut because Russians are devoting enormous resources to taking it? Where would you retreat to? Some position that cant be defended? Why would you do that? "Isn't it better to stay in a position that you are able to defend, like Bakhmut?


BHAN85 said:


> A woman soldier can be so good like a man soldier.


lol, how old are you? 


Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> I don't see a point . All Russia is doing is throwing artillery at bakhmat grinding the opposition . Why is bakhmut so important to Ukraine ?


Its just a defendable position. Why abandon it for a position that is not able to be defended? Where would you retreat to if you were the general?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

alimobin memon said:


> What did he do ? Want to clear my footing here


He broke the rules of PDF too many times. Since violations tend to be reported and removed, much evidence is gone, but I am pretty sure that You understand why by looking at this thread.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607811036098297856


----------



## Stranagor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607480873091477506



Vodka?



kingQamaR said:


> Okay seriously where has all the money that Russia invested heavily into the military in the past decade gone if they're jets/planes/military hardware within Russian borders are being destroyed



At least some must be parked in Western financial assets, only to be confiscated and reserved for the reconstruction of Ukraine. 

Who says corruption is always bad.


----------



## Broccoli

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Ukraine is throwing everything at it's disposal to protect bakhmut , don't know why bakhmut is so precious to Ukraine





ZeGerman said:


> Yeah on the whole ukraine has been making better strategic decisions then the russians but sometimes they also join in on a grind match. Similar as in sevastopol.
> 
> Maybe cultural? From soviet times?



Ukrainians aren't throwing everything they have on defending Bakhmut, but Russian certainly are as they are desperate for some kinda victory, so for Ukrainians it's a good way to let Russian waste their resources. Russian assault on Bakhmut is already showing signs of slowing down as they are now throwing small 10-20 men units against Ukrainian defensive lines.

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## Stranagor

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin's chief poisoner 'fired from FSB for criticising Ukraine war'
> 
> 
> Colonel-General Eduard Chernovoltsev, 52, was in overall charge of NII-2 FSB, a research institute which develops deadly poisons used against Kremlin foes such as Alexei Navalny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



He is advised to avoid booking rooms no higher than second floor. Easier to fall off of windows these days. 



Viet said:


> I am very shocked. My country Vietnam air defense bases on S300 missile defense systems from Russia. If turn out they are useless against chinese air assaults we must ask for money back from Putin. Good, we don’t buy S400 yet.



Vietnam is already reducing reliance on Russian systems. Smart strategic move. It would only speed up from now on.

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## ZeGerman

thetutle said:


> You suggest Ukraine should abandon Bakhmut because Russians are devoting enormous resources to taking it? Where would you retreat to? Some position that cant be defended? Why would you do that? "Isn't it better to stay in a position that you are able to defend, like Bakhmut?



Ofcourse, if defendable and russia is hurting more then your entrenched troops its smart to let them blunt their offensive power on Bakhmut. 

However logistics and manouver warfare is russias weak point. Now that the russians have their artillery and drones/recon somewhat in place and outnumbering Ukraine. The latter could move to the next defense line and in meantime put the hurt on the russians as they then try to transport/build up to the new front. 

(Downside is that it would be a temporary propaganda boost for the russians).


----------



## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> Another Putin critic 'falls out a window' to his death: Sausage tycoon plummets from luxury hotel​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Putin critic 'falls out a window' to his death
> 
> 
> Sausage multi-millionaire Pavel Antov (pictured), from the main pro-Putin party United Russia, had been on a trip to celebrate his upcoming 66th birthday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> If Putin spent half the time he spends on assisinating his critics as he did on the war - then things might even be going better for him!!!





Battlion25 said:


> location of incident?





Viet said:


> Assassination is a specialty of the Wagner hooligans, because that’s a private army, Putin can say he has nothing to do. Or carried out by his special service FSB.
> That’s official, as a German court officially said it. They killed an opponent in Berlin in broad daylight light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mord im Kleinen Tiergarten in Berlin: Lebenslang für Vadim Krasikov
> 
> 
> Mehr als zwei Jahre nach den tödlichen Schüssen auf einen Georgier mitten in Berlin ist ein Russe zu lebenslanger Haft verurteilt worden. Die Berliner Richter sehen in der Tat einen Mord im Auftrag russischer Stellen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de



That makes completely no sense.

To begin with, location! Rayagada

Odisha is not a touristy place by any extend, and Rayagada is not even a town, better be called a village. Go to google maps. It's a freaking remote place.

And Sai International is not a "Luxury hotel," but a roadside motel.



















Now, the guy in question is described as a "Billionaire." He could've gone, and lived in a place like Taj Hotel in Bombay full time. And Taj is the most well guarded hotel in the world.

If the guy took a risk to travel India as a white person with only a personal assistant, he definitely believed that his risks were bigger a big city even in a hotel guarded by Indian 3 letter services.

It's obvious: the guy was on the run, and wanted to hide in obscurity. But India is a not a place where you can hide in obscurity: ID checks everywhere. India would've been a perfect place to hide in from a foreign govt, but not if that govt was friendly with Modi.

Now, ask yourself: How in the world did Journos got onto the story so fast? If some random rich white dude dies in a motel in backwater town in India, it will be at least weeks before somebody will figure out, and decide to make it newsworthy. It's obvious that somebody have cooked this story as a cover.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608078238563336194


----------



## Ali_Baba

The battle for Kyiv revisited: the litany of mistakes that cost Russia a quick win


Moscow completely misjudged Ukraine, issuing some invading soldiers with parade dress to march down Kyiv’s main street




www.theguardian.com

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Most likely Russia now depends on older armour (30-50 years old T-62/T-64) and they don't work like newer tanks does which have a separate cooling system.
> 
> Older tanks needs special fuel mixture to work in winter, otherwise their engine will seize up in cold temperature, and since they don't do anti-freeze the way we do modern car or modern tank, if Russia don't have that much fuel mixture then those tank won't work in winter. And I doubt the Russian keep up with the supply with old fuel mix.
> 
> But then this is just my take..



All they need is to mix in kero into diesel to make them survive mild negative temperatures. But below -20C°, yes, speciality refinery made low temperature diesels would be the only remedy.



Oldman1 said:


> This is just sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606037940148113409
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604775982782717953



It shocks me what UA volunteers showed me in Poland, and what can't be posted onto the net.

RUAF is an army of middle aged men. But most Ukrainian soldiers who are dying are teens, and people in early twenties. It will be a very bitter after the war. Ukraine only had like 25M people of working age at the start in total.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606082825400238083



Yes, another big wow now: fleet sailors, and aircraft crews are sent forward as cannon fodder. These guys take years to train, and training yields are low. 1/3 As I know from PLA. Only 1 of 3 lieutenants will be flight worthy, everybody else last resort reserve, and ground staff.

I also surprised why they activated people from "riotous" Pacific Fleet. Things must have been bad enough that they moved in known unreliable people. (They had a mutiny in the Pacific Fleet in March)


----------



## Dalit

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Sick and tired of ukraine-russo war, let a near war begin now



Don't worry. Serbia Kosovo is warming up.

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## Paul2

zectech said:


> Merkel: Putin Wants to Destroy Europe​



Dear Frölen Merkel, if you knew that Putin wants to "Destroy Europe", why did you spoon fed him, and his regime for 16 years?

Modern Russia all, but certain been a German project. It's German brought up, and cultivated, and would've been completely impossible without it.

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## Ali_Baba

Dalit said:


> Don't worry. Serbia Kosovo is warming up.



And Armenia / Azerbijan may be back on the menu too ...

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606984752728313857



I would only say that Ukraine had multiple very good opportunities to move out of Bakhmut over the last 2 months, and they didn't.

Them not using their better infantry there, means they want it for something else.

September-October been an extremely favourable time for new offensives, but UA side foregone all of them because ground truths remain the same: terrible lack of artillery of all sizes, and lack of armoured transport.

Building up reserves to the point of giving up walkover opportunities is a hard choice, definitely.



Hack-Hook said:


> A good question will be who is standing against Russian artillery in that front, and how much zelensky care about them.



Russians have Akatsiyas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S3_Akatsiya) in s##tloads still. They lost their better SPHs, Mstas, massively in March, but they no longer that reliant on fancy arty.

Even if they fire from 10km, even cold war SPHs are fast enough to run away from counterfire.

They also realised that artillery is their lifeline, and they are preserving SPHes even over tanks. During every Russian retreat in last month, very few SPHes left behind relatively to other high value vehicles: SAMs, radars, and comms vehicles.

Ukraine still desperately needs more mobile artillery, like 6x-8x of what it has now, as a minimum.


----------



## Paul2

Broccoli said:


> I've noticed that Russians aren't even using that many tanks in Bakhmut and sends soldiers into battle almost like we were living in year 1915 instead of 2022.
> 
> Crazy stuff.



Tackling AFU's high offensive power units in Bakhmut with cannon fodder infantry is infinitely more cheaper than tackling them with mechanized.

Russians are concentrating their remaining armour behind Svatove, Melitopol, and Mariupol. That's clearly a defensive move, and a bad one. They are preparing for a worst case scenario, and are ready to forego all opportunities to use armour.


----------



## Paul2

TopGun786 said:


> So
> 
> Now on this thread will be one sided and boring.



Somal is a guy genuinely warranting deeper inquest into his identity. Allegedly, an American Somalian out of all people, but with very poor English, registering within week after Russians have started this war, seemingly able to understand Russian, using Russian language Windows on his computer, having Russian locale in his image metadata, being active online close to 24*7, and, after all of that, vehemently denying having any Russian connection.



SIPRA said:


> One sided perspectives invariably lead to misinformation and distortions.



And so does closing eyes on overt propaganda. Failing to filter your input from known disinformation will distort your analysis.

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## SIPRA

Dalit said:


> Don't worry. Serbia Kosovo is warming up.



How about China-India, in closer vicinity? 😛😛😛

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## kingQamaR

Putins strategic military obsession with Bakhmut is a great mystery? Maybe the deal with the Wagner chief is to just burn through the Russian prisoners as cannon fodder, to make the Ukrainian's use up men and materials , whilst the new Russian conscripts get some basic training?

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## Dalit

SIPRA said:


> How about China-India, in closer vicinity? 😛😛😛



The world is raging with various conflicts.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606206949183332352





Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607718413430050816



Our slaughterbots have finally reached frontlines. They cost $150 + (cost of RPG warhead) to make, mostly due to expensive motors. 2 SMT lines in Poland will be popping up few hundred of them per day.

We plan to find a dirt cheap motor supplier in the future to potentially halve the cost. It's extremely minimallistic design: thick phenolic PCB as rigid frame, trace antenna, ESC, and video all on one PCB, few layers of thick shrinkwrap as casing, zip ties for assembly of large parts.

They no longer allow anybody from red countries in regardless of reasons. I'm not having anything against that, nor want people who link volunteers with the Hungarian brigade to waste their effort on arguing with higher ups now. And simply, there been too many randoms in the field making bad air.


Signum, Omega... cutthroat people, and a kernel for something bigger. 108, and 128 were good line infantry, brave men, but those are just sculpted, model units, with very serious officers.

Bye till I am back in UAE.


----------



## Dalit

@RoadAmerica

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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> Putins strategic military obsession with Bakhmut is a great mystery? Maybe the deal with the Wagner chief is to just burn through the Russian prisoners as cannon fodder, to make the Ukrainian's use up men and materials , whilst the new Russian conscripts get some basic training?



A small update from stuff I can tell from what is known to public already:


RUAF committed serious amount of cannon fodder to the frontlines, true. Because of that, much of AFU's Sep-Oct offensive plans been called off.
Western promise to deliver more armour been failed again.
Overfocus on air defence been a major screw-up. It was made to divert allied attention from Ukraine's more important armour, and artillery needs.
Bakhmut is a slaughterhouse not making any side any good, but it spoils AFU's attempts to divert a significant portion of its better infantry to cutting RU logistic infra in the North, and breach preparation in the South. Everybody sure it's a very deliberate action on Russian side
Russian mechanised been pulled back to reform behind possible Ukrainian breach targets.
Still a f##ning critical shortage of artillery, and APCs, which NATO donors could've filled in 1 week with ease. Men are fuming, completely furious at that. This made AFU to lose enormously good opportunities to take more territories by walkover in Sep-Oct, and trying to attrite Russians retreating from Kherson more aggressively.
Russian mine warfare going extreme, literal tens of tons of mines are being planted across all frontlines every day. AFU will need tens of engineering vehicles for demining to resume breach attempts.
All of above made AFU GHQ to take a hard decision to forego all offensive operations in favour of building more massive reserve, and hope for a stalemate breaking in the spring.

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## Dalit

Paul2 said:


> A small update from stuff I can tell from what is known to public already:
> 
> 
> RUAF committed serious amount of cannon fodder to the frontlines, true. Because of that, much of AFU's Sep-Oct offensive plans been called off.
> Western promise to deliver more armour been failed again.
> Overfocus on air defence been a major screw-up. It was made to divert allied attention from Ukraine's more important armour, and artillery needs.
> Bakhmut is a slaughterhouse not making any side any good, but it spoils AFU's attempts to divert a significant portion of its better infantry to cutting RU logistic infra in the North, and breach preparation in the South. Everybody sure it's a very deliberate action on Russian side
> Russian mechanised been pulled back to reform behind possible Ukrainian breach targets.
> Still a f##ning critical shortage of artillery, and APCs, which NATO donors could've filled in 1 week with ease. Men are fuming, completely furious at that. This made AFU to lose enormously good opportunities to take more territories by walkover in Sep-Oct, and trying to attrite Russians retreating from Kherson more aggressively.
> Russian mine warfare going extreme, literal tens of tons of mines are being planted across all frontlines every day. AFU will need tens of engineering vehicles for demining to resume breach attempts.
> All of above made AFU GHQ to take a hard decision to forego all offensive operations in favour of building more massive reserve, and hope for a stalemate breaking in the spring.



I have a better suggestion. Some PDF warriors should join the ranks in Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Somal is a guy genuinely warranting deeper inquest into his identity. Allegedly, an American Somalian out of all people, but with very poor English, registering within week after Russians have started this war, seemingly able to understand Russian, using Russian language Windows on his computer, having Russian locale in his image metadata, being active online close to 24*7, and, after all of that, vehemently denying having any Russian connection.
> 
> 
> 
> And so does closing eyes on overt propaganda. Failing to filter your input from known disinformation will distort your analysis.



Administrator/mods need to look into his true identity. I still remember when one of the biggest posters on PDF, Nihonjin, claimed to be Japanese for years and was found to be a fraud. 

Transparency is important to unveil true intentions.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Administrator/mods need to look into his true identity. I still remember when one of the biggest posters on PDF, Nihonjin, claimed to be Japanese for years and was found to be a fraud.
> 
> Transparency is important to unveil true intentions.



Should we have your identity checked?

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## SIPRA

Dalit said:


> I have a better suggestion. Some PDF warriors should join the ranks in Ukraine.



Yes .... and they shall immediately be despatched to Bakhmut. 😛😛

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## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> A small update from stuff I can tell from what is known to public already:
> 
> 
> RUAF committed serious amount of cannon fodder to the frontlines, true. Because of that, much of AFU's Sep-Oct offensive plans been called off.
> Western promise to deliver more armour been failed again.
> Overfocus on air defence been a major screw-up. It was made to divert allied attention from Ukraine's more important armour, and artillery needs.
> Bakhmut is a slaughterhouse not making any side any good, but it spoils AFU's attempts to divert a significant portion of its better infantry to cutting RU logistic infra in the North, and breach preparation in the South. Everybody sure it's a very deliberate action on Russian side
> Russian mechanised been pulled back to reform behind possible Ukrainian breach targets.
> Still a f##ning critical shortage of artillery, and APCs, which NATO donors could've filled in 1 week with ease. Men are fuming, completely furious at that. This made AFU to lose enormously good opportunities to take more territories by walkover in Sep-Oct, and trying to attrite Russians retreating from Kherson more aggressively.
> Russian mine warfare going extreme, literal tens of tons of mines are being planted across all frontlines every day. AFU will need tens of engineering vehicles for demining to resume breach attempts.
> All of above made AFU GHQ to take a hard decision to forego all offensive operations in favour of building more massive reserve, and hope for a stalemate breaking in the spring.




Meanwhile, Ukrainian troops are getting ready to take Kreminna; when that happens the Russian defence (as it were) will collapse, and the Russian offensive on Bakhmut will be open for attacks from the rear. The coming months will be VERY costly for Russia...

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## Deino

Dalit said:


> I have a better suggestion. Some PDF warriors should join the ranks in Ukraine.



wow, what a plain stupid post .... or for the Russian-paid trolls the same in return on the Russian front!

Really?

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## kingQamaR

Dalit said:


> I have a better suggestion. Some PDF warriors should join the ranks in Ukraine.



More single russian women to bang now 

Just don't let them anywhere near your credit card

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## Dalit

Deino said:


> wow, what a plain stupid post .... or for the Russian-paid trolls the same in return on the Russian front!
> 
> Really?



Come on deino. Cutie name btw. Don't be so angry. Just a minor suggestion bruv.



kingQamaR said:


> More single russian women to bang now
> 
> Just don't let them anywhere near your credit card



Ukrainian women are being exploited in European capitals bruv. Tell me that I am lying. Horny European men are advertising openly.

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## SIPRA

Dalit said:


> Ukrainian women are being exploited in European capitals bruv. Tell me that I am lying. Horny European men are advertising openly.



Unfortunate. I have heard that this menace is of colossal proportions.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608134009950990336


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## Ali_Baba

Top former Russian general 'dies suddenly' after Putin cancels trip


General Alexei Maslov, 69, passed away on Christmas Day in a Moscow military hospital, the Uralvagonzavod plant announced. It follows the 'sudden death' of Alexander Buzakov.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Another dead Russian general - this time it seems he was in a hospital - though it did not do him much good !

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> The question you should ask is why Bakhmut is so important to the Russian.
> 
> For the Ukrainian, their goal is to hinder Russian offensive, either to slow their advance or to buy time for their own counter attack. Which mean for the Ukrainian, any fight is welcome because it take resource and focus off what they are doing. As long as Russia keep attacking Bakhmut, Ukraine will say "Why not"
> 
> For the Russian, Bakhmut is not important AT ALL since they loses Lyman and Izyum, because before you need Bakhmut to secure a flank to attack Sloviansk and Kramatorsk which is the only way you can take both city, but now with Izyum and Lyman under Ukrainian Control, that is no longer possible, on the other hand, Bakhmut would be sitting duck even if Russia took it if and when Ukrianian broke thru Svatove.
> 
> What Russia is doing now is basically wasting resource and stringing up their troop for some land you don't need to have or have no purpose at all, they already did it twice, focusing on Mariupol means they blunted their Northern Advance and give time the Ukrainian build up their defence to withstand the Russian Assault, which is why it lead to the current situation to begin with. The other time they so focus on Siverodonetsk and Lysychansk they lost both Kharkiv and Kherson because of that.
> 
> This is not a smart way to fight.


As if you Australians know how to fight, if it wasn't for the British Indian army and the Chinese you guys would be eating Sushi everyday.


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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> As if you Australians know how to fight, if it wasn't for the British Indian army and the Chinese you guys would be eating Sushi everyday.


Maybe you should learn some history or Military Tactics or maybe some Geography before you open your mouth??

British Indian Army were in the different side of the globe. They were in Burma and Africa and later Italy. The only campaign the British Army in general conducted in South Pacific is the Singapore/Malaysia Campaign, which lead to 94,000 British and Commonwealth Troop (Including Australian) being captured by the Japanese and the loss of Singapore. The Chinese on the other hand, were being bogged down by the Japanese in Manchuria and Kanton area. They weren't ever in South Pacific. 

The Campaign that credit to saving Australia directly is the Port Moresby Campaign, that is the port directly opposite Cairns and to a lesser extend the Battle of Coral Sea which make Naval Blockade of Australia (in the Pacific only, not Indian Ocean side, hence lesser extend) impossible. The first one is a joint US-Australian campaign, while the second one is a US-Dutch-Australian campaign. 

And yes, I do have sushi every day, as if Sushi is not a thing even if Japanese loses WW2.


----------



## Beny Karachun

BHAN85 said:


> A woman soldier can be so good like a man soldier.


Not really.
They generally need way lighter loads and way less physical demand.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> All they need is to mix in kero into diesel to make them survive mild negative temperatures. But below -20C°, yes, speciality refinery made low temperature diesels would be the only remedy.
> 
> 
> 
> It shocks me what UA volunteers showed me in Poland, and what can't be posted onto the net.
> 
> RUAF is an army of middle aged men. But most Ukrainian soldiers who are dying are teens, and people in early twenties. It will be a very bitter after the war. Ukraine only had like 25M people of working age at the start in total.


Any kind of mixture to dilute the fuel quality would have the fuel pump and filter take a beating, I doubt Russia can sustain long with adding Kerosene on their tank for long, the seal will most likely damage and it will most likely break down eventually if they really do that. By the way, that trick IIRC was taught during WW2 for the Tanker to survive without properly refined fuel, and IIRC, they were told it was specifically for last resort.


----------



## Beny Karachun

jhungary said:


> The question you should ask is why Bakhmut is so important to the Russian.
> 
> For the Ukrainian, their goal is to hinder Russian offensive, either to slow their advance or to buy time for their own counter attack. Which mean for the Ukrainian, any fight is welcome because it take resource and focus off what they are doing. As long as Russia keep attacking Bakhmut, Ukraine will say "Why not"
> 
> For the Russian, Bakhmut is not important AT ALL since they loses Lyman and Izyum, because before you need Bakhmut to secure a flank to attack Sloviansk and Kramatorsk which is the only way you can take both city, but now with Izyum and Lyman under Ukrainian Control, that is no longer possible, on the other hand, Bakhmut would be sitting duck even if Russia took it if and when Ukrianian broke thru Svatove.
> 
> What Russia is doing now is basically wasting resource and stringing up their troop for some land you don't need to have or have no purpose at all, they already did it twice, focusing on Mariupol means they blunted their Northern Advance and give time the Ukrainian build up their defence to withstand the Russian Assault, which is why it lead to the current situation to begin with. The other time they so focus on Siverodonetsk and Lysychansk they lost both Kharkiv and Kherson because of that.
> 
> This is not a smart way to fight.


If you are asking me, they might think of Bakhmut as a slow but "sure" way to lower Ukrainian manpower. How successful their effort is? I have no idea.



jhungary said:


> The question you should ask is why Bakhmut is so important to the Russian.
> 
> For the Ukrainian, their goal is to hinder Russian offensive, either to slow their advance or to buy time for their own counter attack. Which mean for the Ukrainian, any fight is welcome because it take resource and focus off what they are doing. As long as Russia keep attacking Bakhmut, Ukraine will say "Why not"
> 
> For the Russian, Bakhmut is not important AT ALL since they loses Lyman and Izyum, because before you need Bakhmut to secure a flank to attack Sloviansk and Kramatorsk which is the only way you can take both city, but now with Izyum and Lyman under Ukrainian Control, that is no longer possible, on the other hand, Bakhmut would be sitting duck even if Russia took it if and when Ukrianian broke thru Svatove.
> 
> What Russia is doing now is basically wasting resource and stringing up their troop for some land you don't need to have or have no purpose at all, they already did it twice, focusing on Mariupol means they blunted their Northern Advance and give time the Ukrainian build up their defence to withstand the Russian Assault, which is why it lead to the current situation to begin with. The other time they so focus on Siverodonetsk and Lysychansk they lost both Kharkiv and Kherson because of that.
> 
> This is not a smart way to fight.


Basically I think they are trying to create an equation, "I have 5 times as many soldiers as they do, so if I constantly lose 4 soldiers for every 1 Ukrainian casualty, I will eventually win" and Bakhmut might be a way to constantly achieve those numbers.


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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> Putins strategic military obsession with Bakhmut is a great mystery?


which means your side is behind, because it cant have effective strategy without knowing what the opposite sie is thinking.


kingQamaR said:


> Maybe the deal with the Wagner chief is to just burn through the Russian prisoners as cannon fodder,


but its Ukranians who have died like cannon fodder in Bakmut- you've got it reversed here buddy- Ukraine lost so many soldiers in Bakhmut- even the Ukranian troops in Bakhmut couldnt hide the fact that so many Ukranian troops had been neutralised there- Ukrainian army tried to hide that fact by just sending more soldiers there- and Russia gladly continued to denazify good Ukrainian ground forces- easier in one place/Bakhmut than chasing them all over Ukraine no?


kingQamaR said:


> to make the Ukrainian's use up men and materials ,


Ukraine DID use up ALOT of its men- the "Bakhmut meat grinder " is now a historical phrase and reality in the Ukraine war- this is reality, not a fake cartoon character like ghost of Kiev.


kingQamaR said:


> whilst the new Russian conscripts get some basic training?


lmao..you're so behind, no wonder Ukraine is losing territory daily now- its war plans are broken - no electricity, no transformers, no artillery on the frontline, no real APCs, now using pick uip trucks, obv no fuel, no morale- lots of POWs being captured daily. 

But the war is still heavy, but i am seeing signs that Russia's military is well supported and greased up on the "back end", but Ukraine's back end war logistics is in horrible shapes- no trains to transport military personnel and equipment due to denazification of Ukraine's power grid, no artillery, no warm meals on the frontline right as COLD winter sets in...low equipment supply to Ukrainian troops, thats why they fire few artillery (and are dying more because of that).

I know who has the momentum in this war as of today- its Russia.

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## Beny Karachun

925boy said:


> lmao..you're so behind, no wonder Ukraine is losing territory daily now- its war plans are broken - no electricity, no transformers, no artillery on the frontline, no real APCs, now using pick uip trucks, obv no fuel, no morale- lots of POWs being captured daily.


You live in an alternate reality

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Putins strategic military obsession with Bakhmut is a great mystery? Maybe the deal with the Wagner chief is to just burn through the Russian prisoners as cannon fodder, to make the Ukrainian's use up men and materials , whilst the new Russian conscripts get some basic training?


The only possible scenario the Russian obsessed with Bakhmut is because that was the only thing going for them at the moment. Across the board, they were the one attacking in the area. If they retreated (Which any logical military leader would do) they will be on a completely defensive role in Ukraine and Ukrainian, not the Russian would be the one to dictate tempo. Because if that happened, this being an offensive campaign would be done with and Russia will lose because they can't really hold on any ground if they do that.

Think about it this way, if they retreat in Bakhmut, they would be freeing up another bunch of Ukrainian troop (currently there are 6 Brigade fighting in the area.) Then they would have to guess which way Ukraine will go next, that is nearly impossible which mean they would need to defend the East and the South at the same time, which is next to impossible with the manpower and logistic they have. 

Russia is NOT A DOUBT training their mobilised soldier for an offensive campaign for next Spring, they have saved up roughly 100,000 of those conscripts and not putting them in the field. And military sense would suggest Kyiv again if they can get the Belarussian going as well, and Kharkiv if not to relieve logistic pressure off. But most analyst doubt they can really pull this off. Because on paper, you are talking about a badly equipped, badly trained conscript throwing down on a line that Ukrainian is probably preparing since April/May This year. And unlike the last time, the line is now filled with Ukrainian defender and they are better equipped by the west before......

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608172497488297986


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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Maybe you should learn some history or Military Tactics or maybe some Geography before you open your mouth??
> 
> British Indian Army were in the different side of the globe. They were in Burma and Africa and later Italy. The only campaign the British Army in general conducted in South Pacific is the Singapore/Malaysia Campaign, which lead to 94,000 British and Commonwealth Troop (Including Australian) being captured by the Japanese and the loss of Singapore. The Chinese on the other hand, were being bogged down by the Japanese in Manchuria and Kanton area. They weren't ever in South Pacific.
> 
> The Campaign that credit to saving Australia directly is the Port Moresby Campaign, that is the port directly opposite Cairns and to a lesser extend the Battle of Coral Sea which make Naval Blockade of Australia (in the Pacific only, not Indian Ocean side, hence lesser extend) impossible. The first one is a joint US-Australian campaign, while the second one is a US-Dutch-Australian campaign.
> 
> And yes, I do have sushi every day, as if Sushi is not a thing even if Japanese loses WW2.



Australia is a insignificant country propped up by their penal masters. If Japan hadn't been defeated by US, India and China Autsralia would sure have been occupied by the Japs. Free land is the basis of Australia's successful rich class. Perhaps you should read real history and not colonial tainted history?

Where did Indian soldiers fight in ww2?









India in World War II - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org











Indians fought with distinction throughout the world, including in the European theatre against Germany, North African Campaign against fascist Italy, and in the southeast Asian theatre; while also defending the Indian subcontinent against the Japanese forces, including British Burma and the Crown colony of Ceylon.


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## Vergennes

Beny Karachun said:


> You live in an alternate reality



This dude's full of copium, said Ukraine is losing so much men and would never take Kherson (he said you could screenshot this which we all did here), claims Ukraine can't capture any territory while liberating entire regions but Russians capturing half of a small village in Donbass is a great achivement, Russians are advancing at a fast speed.... claims Bakhmut is a meat grinder and 4 million Ukrainian soldiers have already been killed (and millions more not counted yet) but the only images we see are fields full of Russian and wagner bodies dying in waves after frontal attacks.

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## Viet

Time for a total drone war

Ukraine has purchased 1,400 drones. From surveillance to suicide to fighting drones.
















Minister: Ukraine kauft 1.400 Drohnen und arbeitet an Weiterentwicklung von Kampfdrohnen


Laut dem ukrainischen Minister für digitale Transformation, Mychajlo Fedorow, hat die Ukraine rund 1.400 Drohnen gekauft und arbeitet an der Entwicklung von Kampfdrohnen. Die News zum Krieg in der Ukraine im Live-Ticker.




web.de

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## Dalit

Flight of falcon said:


> This guy Dalit is an idiot who has a prostate problem and pisses in each thread with his piss poor and idiotic comments....



Of course, let me prostrate in front you army boot licker LOL Canadian idiot.



Viet said:


> Time for a total drone war
> 
> Ukraine has purchased 1,400 drones. From surveillance to suicide to fighting drones.
> 
> 
> View attachment 908173
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minister: Ukraine kauft 1.400 Drohnen und arbeitet an Weiterentwicklung von Kampfdrohnen
> 
> 
> Laut dem ukrainischen Minister für digitale Transformation, Mychajlo Fedorow, hat die Ukraine rund 1.400 Drohnen gekauft und arbeitet an der Entwicklung von Kampfdrohnen. Die News zum Krieg in der Ukraine im Live-Ticker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> web.de



You guys claimed that the war against Russia was going to be easy and over in a matter of months. We are still fighting and the Russians are pouncing Ukraine. What happened?

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## Flight of falcon

Dalit said:


> Of course, let me prostrate in front you army boot licker LOL Canadian idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> You guys claimed that the war against Russia was going to be easy and over in a matter og months. We are still fighting and the Russians are pouncing Ukraine.




No you don’t need to prostate except one God.

However I hope you get a boot shoved up your *** as high as it can get …. 

You and your few cronies are truly dispicable and low intelligent creatures.

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## Beny Karachun

Dalit said:


> You guys claimed that the war against Russia was going to be easy and over in a matter of months. We are still fighting and the Russians are pouncing Ukraine. What happened?


Bruh are you retarded? The Russians said they were going to take Ukraine in 3 days

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## Dalit

Beny Karachun said:


> Bruh are you retarded? The Russians said they were going to take Ukraine in 3 days



LOL All you have to do is browse in this thread and read the comments from dear honorable members. We are almost a year into the war. Just saying.

Dude, Russians have captured strategic areas and are now pushing for more. The more you guys rant in this topic the worse the situation gets for Ukraine. I think it is better for you guys take a pause. Perhaps that might improve the situation for Ukraine.



Flight of falcon said:


> No you don’t need to prostate except one God.
> 
> However I hope you get a boot shoved up your *** as high as it can get ….
> 
> You and your few cronies are truly dispicable and low intelligent creatures.



Nice to see you so triggered. 👍 Your words don't mean a thing LOL

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> Of course, let me prostrate in front you army boot licker LOL Canadian idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> You guys claimed that the war against Russia was going to be easy and over in a matter of months. We are still fighting and the Russians are pouncing Ukraine. What happened?


Nonsense
Check my posts I never said that. I don’t remember anyone said Ukraine would win in months. Most said Ukraine had no chance they would surrender in a week.
I made some predictions let’s see how they developing.
One of my predictions is Putin will make Russians to economic slaves. He will knee all the way to Beijing to beg for money, friendship and help.


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## Dalit

Viet said:


> Nonsense
> Check my posts I never said that. I don’t remember anyone said Ukraine would win in months. Most said Ukraine had no chance they would surrender in a week.
> I made some predictions let’s see how they developing.
> One of my predictions is Putin will make Russians to economic slaves. He will knee all the way to Beijing to beg for money, friendship and help.



Did I mention you specifically by name? There are plenty of members that were boasting how Russia was going to be a walkover. Neither has Russia been a walkover economically and neither has Russia been defeated militarily. Let's face it, Russia has managed to sustain the war without too much fuss. On the contrary, the war in Ukraine has impacted the entire world economically and in various other ways.

You should be worried about China Russia nexus because the war in Ukraine has brought the two closer than ever. You say that Russia is going to beg Beijing for money. Russia and China see it as a partnership. Don't take this partnership lightly. You have your work cut out for you.

The Americans and its Western partners wanted to tackle China and Russia seperately. That doesn't seem likely anymore.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608151668776144898

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## Flight of falcon

Dalit said:


> LOL All you have to do is browse in this thread and read the comments from dear honorable members. We are almost a year into the war. Just saying.
> 
> Dude, Russians have captured strategic areas and are now pushing for more. The more you guys rant in this topic the worse the situation gets for Ukraine. I think it is better for you guys take a pause. Perhaps that might improve the situation for Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to see you so triggered. 👍 Your words don't mean a thing LOL




You are really not worthy of my words but I assure you one day you will get the boot where the sun doesn’t shine….

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## jhungary

Beny Karachun said:


> If you are asking me, they might think of Bakhmut as a slow but "sure" way to lower Ukrainian manpower. How successful their effort is? I have no idea.
> 
> 
> Basically I think they are trying to create an equation, "I have 5 times as many soldiers as they do, so if I constantly lose 4 soldiers for every 1 Ukrainian casualty, I will eventually win" and Bakhmut might be a way to constantly achieve those numbers.



The problem I saw is that if Russia want to degrade Ukrainian Manpower, they would have stop the siege and just use artillery and bomb the shit out of Bakhmut, because the Russian is the one that's attacking, it makes absolutely no sense at all to mate with the number of degradations to the Ukrainian, it's like an assassin who try to assassinate someone by lining his own head in front of the gun.... 

Russia wants to mount a Spring Offensive, which mean if that was their ultimate goal, then their main goal from now until then is to preserve manpower because that is what counted when you suddenly dump a major portion of manpower and resource to try to break the Ukrainian line, unless Russia is not lacking of Manpower and doing this to show that they could do this, that wouldn't make any sense to waste manpower like that before a serious push. And we KNOW their rank are depleted, otherwise they would not heavily rely on PMC and they would not mobilise their reserve. 

So, it wouldn't make any sense to try to degrade Ukrainian manpower by throwing unknown amount (all we know is a lot) of Russian manpower into a defensive line which you know they have a better tactical situation than you. 

But then this is assuming Russian Command structure is competent, which by all account on how they persecute the first 10 months of the war, show that they are anything BUT competent.... 



khansaheeb said:


> Australia is a insignificant country propped up by their penal masters. If Japan hadn't been defeated by US, India and China Autsralia would sure have been occupied by the Japs. Free land is the basis of Australia's successful rich class. Perhaps you should read real history and not colonial tainted history?
> 
> Where did Indian soldiers fight in ww2?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India in World War II - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indians fought with distinction throughout the world, including in the European theatre against Germany, North African Campaign against fascist Italy, and in the southeast Asian theatre; while also defending the Indian subcontinent against the Japanese forces, including British Burma and the Crown colony of Ceylon.


If you claim this, then weren't American, French, Greece, Belgium, Canada, Dutch all have a hand saving Australia?? How about Australia saving Britain from the German by positioning its troop in North Africa?? Or How American saving the Soviet or how the Soviet saving the British by drawing the entire 6th Army during Operation Barbarossa? 

*WE ALL DID OUR PARTS*. That's the end of the spectrum here, so if we go by your "Definition" then it should be "The Rest of the World saving the rest of the world that were not part of Axis Power" You can't apply approximation on who defeat who because there are a group of people who do ACTUAL defeating their enemy. In Australia case, the *DIRECT* threat come from Ports Moresby, and we Australian, along with the US Army, NOT the British, NOT the British Indian, NOT the Chinese who defeated them in Port Moresby, if the Japanese captured that port, then their next stop is undoubtedly Darwin, on the other hand, that is an unknown because we don't know, and *WILL NEVER KNOW*, if the Japanese can mount a Naval Assault from Port Moresby since it did not happened, and also if they were already beaten back at Port Moresby or Kokoda, then what make you think the same army have the ability to invade, let alone conquer Australia which is bigger than the entire land area Japan conquered in South Pacific combine??

*I WAS A MILITARY OFFICER*, I don't do fantasy.

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## Dalit

Flight of falcon said:


> You are really not worthy of my words but I assure you one day you will get the boot where the sun doesn’t shine….



Nice. Keep going.


----------



## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> The problem I saw is that if Russia want to degrade Ukrainian Manpower, they would have stop the siege and just use artillery and bomb the shit out of Bakhmut, because the Russian is the one that's attacking, it makes absolutely no sense at all to mate with the number of degradations to the Ukrainian, it's like an assassin who try to assassinate someone by lining his own head in front of the gun....
> 
> Russia wants to mount a Spring Offensive, which mean if that was their ultimate goal, then their main goal from now until then is to preserve manpower because that is what counted when you suddenly dump a major portion of manpower and resource to try to break the Ukrainian line, unless Russia is not lacking of Manpower and doing this to show that they could do this, that wouldn't make any sense to waste manpower like that before a serious push. And we KNOW their rank are depleted, otherwise they would not heavily rely on PMC and they would not mobilise their reserve.
> 
> So, it wouldn't make any sense to try to degrade Ukrainian manpower by throwing unknown amount (all we know is a lot) of Russian manpower into a defensive line which you know they have a better tactical situation than you.
> 
> But then this is assuming Russian Command structure is competent, which by all account on how they persecute the first 10 months of the war, show that they are anything BUT competent....
> 
> 
> If you claim this, then weren't American, French, Greece, Belgium, Canada, Dutch all have a hand saving Australia?? How about Australia saving Britain from the German by positioning its troop in North Africa?? Or How American saving the Soviet or how the Soviet saving the British by drawing the entire 6th Army during Operation Barbarossa?
> 
> *WE ALL DID OUR PARTS*. That's the end of the spectrum here, so if we go by your "Definition" then it should be "The Rest of the World saving the rest of the world that were not part of Axis Power" You can't apply approximation on who defeat who because there are a group of people who do ACTUAL defeating their enemy. In Australia case, the *DIRECT* threat come from Ports Moresby, and we Australian, along with the US Army, NOT the British, NOT the British Indian, NOT the Chinese who defeated them in Port Moresby, if the Japanese captured that port, then their next stop is undoubtedly Darwin, on the other hand, that is an unknown because we don't know, and *WILL NEVER KNOW*, if the Japanese can mount a Naval Assault from Port Moresby since it did not happened, and also if they were already beaten back at Port Moresby or Kokoda, then what make you think the same army have the ability to invade, let alone conquer Australia which is bigger than the entire land area Japan conquered in South Pacific combine??
> 
> *I WAS A MILITARY OFFICER*, I don't do fantasy.




Australian soldiers rest in the Finisterre Ranges of New Guinea while en route to the front line during March 1944Active1939–1945CountryAustraliaAllegianceAlliesTypeArmySize80,000 (September 1939)
476,000 (peak in 1942)
730,000 (total)

Look at the British Indian army , MORE THAN 2.5 Million soldiers:-

2.5 million Indian troops

At the height of the second World War, *more than 2.5 million* Indian troops were fighting Axis forces around the globe.


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## Viet

Dalit said:


> Did I mention you specifically by name? There are plenty of members that were boasting how Russia was going to be a walkover. Neither has Russia been a walkover economically and neither has Russia been defeated militarily. Let's face it, Russia has managed to sustain the war without too much fuss. On the contrary, the war in Ukraine has impacted the entire world economically and in various other ways.
> 
> You should be worried about China Russia nexus because the war in Ukraine has brought the two closer than ever. You say that Russia is going to beg Beijing for money. Russia and China see it as a partnership. Don't take this partnership lightly. You have your work cut out for you.
> 
> The Americans and its Western partners wanted to tackle China and Russia seperately. That doesn't seem likely anymore.


Ok that’s fair.
However that’s a relationship between the two unequal brothers China and Russia. consider this. Russia economy is all about oil and gas. Without oil and gas Russia is nothing. The world is transitioning away from oil and gas, what’s Putin’s plan for the future?
We are middle of winter usually people expect the gas price will hit the roof however it hits a newest low. Today I filled my car with gasoline so cheap than ever before 1.60 euros per liter (was 2.20 euros)


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## Dalit

Viet said:


> Ok that’s fair.
> However consider this. Russia economy is all about oil and gas. Without oil and gas Russia is nothing. The world is transitioning away from oil and gas, what’s Putin’s plan for the future?
> We are middle of winter usually people expect the gas price will hit the roof however it hits a newest low. Today I filled my car with gasoline so cheap than ever before 1,60 euros per liter.
> 
> 
> View attachment 908179



Russia can survive with the help of China and India. India is buying a good amount of oil and gas from Russia. The same applies for China. Russia isn't necessarily in a terrible position.

Russian main industry:

Complete range of mining and extractive industries producing coal, oil, gas, chemicals, and metals; all forms of machine building from rolling mills to high-performance aircraft and space vehicles; defense industries (including radar, missile production, advanced electronic components), shipbuilding; road and rail transportation equipment; communications equipment; agricultural machinery, tractors, and construction equipment; electric power generating and transmitting equipment; medical and scientific instruments; consumer durables, textiles, foodstuffs, handicrafts









Economy of Russia - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Russia is a huge country and it has a solid domestic market.

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## reflecthofgeismar

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607688977129013248

...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607725667809894400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607755077053186049


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## Viet

Dalit said:


> Russia can survive with the help of China and India. India is buying a good amount of oil and gas from Russia. The same applies for China. Russia isn't necessarily in a terrible position.
> 
> Russian main industry:
> 
> Complete range of mining and extractive industries producing coal, oil, gas, chemicals, and metals; all forms of machine building from rolling mills to high-performance aircraft and space vehicles; defense industries (including radar, missile production, advanced electronic components), shipbuilding; road and rail transportation equipment; communications equipment; agricultural machinery, tractors, and construction equipment; electric power generating and transmitting equipment; medical and scientific instruments; consumer durables, textiles, foodstuffs, handicrafts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Economy of Russia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is a huge country and it has a solid domestic market.


That’s the point. Russia can survive with China, India as buyers. Putin hates the West so much that he destroys everything western in Russia and then hand over the country on the silver plate to China and India.
As for diversity, Russia national resources make up 60 percent of total exports. If you add national resources related items as fertilizer, grains then percentage is even higher.
As Russia army sucks, people will begin to shun Russia weapons. Will you buy Russia nuclear technology when Putin threatens with nukes? All that will hurt Russia badly.


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Australian soldiers rest in the Finisterre Ranges of New Guinea while en route to the front line during March 1944Active1939–1945CountryAustraliaAllegianceAlliesTypeArmySize80,000 (September 1939)
> 476,000 (peak in 1942)
> 730,000 (total)
> 
> Look at the British Indian army , MORE THAN 2.5 Million soldiers:-
> 
> 2.5 million Indian troops
> 
> At the height of the second World War, *more than 2.5 million* Indian troops were fighting Axis forces around the globe.


Again, you are talking about elsewhere in the war, not who save Australia, let alone whether or not Australia needed saving. 

Soviet have a 15 million army too, does that mean Soviet alone win WW2?

Dude, you are delusional. Plus, this is seriously off topic, I mean, if you want to open up a thread and talk about how Indian saved Australia, be my guess, I may or may not indulge in that delusional thread. This is about Russian-Ukrainian war. And you are talking about Bakhmut, unless you have your professional Military insight you can offer as to why Russia wants to take Bakhmut that badly, again, I am not into fantasy, maybe in the bedroom with my wife doing a little bit roleplay, but that's it.


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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Again, you are talking about elsewhere in the war, not who save Australia, let alone whether or not Australia needed saving.
> 
> Soviet have a 15 million army too, does that mean Soviet alone win WW2?
> 
> Dude, you are delusional. Plus, this is seriously off topic, I mean, if you want to open up a thread and talk about how Indian saved Australia, be my guess, I may or may not indulge in that delusional thread. This is about Russian-Ukrainian war. And you are talking about Bakhmut, unless you have your professional Military insight you can offer as to why Russia wants to take Bakhmut that badly, again, I am not into fantasy, maybe in the bedroom with my wife doing a little bit roleplay, but that's it.





jhungary said:


> Again, you are talking about elsewhere in the war, not who save Australia, let alone whether or not Australia needed saving.
> 
> Soviet have a 15 million army too, does that mean Soviet alone win WW2?
> 
> Dude, you are delusional. Plus, this is seriously off topic, I mean, if you want to open up a thread and talk about how Indian saved Australia, be my guess, I may or may not indulge in that delusional thread. This is about Russian-Ukrainian war. And you are talking about Bakhmut, unless you have your professional Military insight you can offer as to why Russia wants to take Bakhmut that badly, again, I am not into fantasy, maybe in the bedroom with my wife doing a little bit roleplay, but that's it.


Just challenging your delusional Australian self importance and highlighting the insignificant penal colony country that you are. Don't forget your history.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Just challenging your delusional Australian self importance and highlighting the insignificant penal colony country that you are. Don't forget your history.


I never said anything about "Australian" self importance, you pull this off the bag out of nowhere. The original post you quote me with this is why I question Bakhmut is important.

And I don't consider my root to be in this "Penal Country" I was born in America. So if you want to challenge me, go challenge that. Otherwise you can shove it up to someone who cares.

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## khansaheeb

Live updates: Russia's war in Ukraine


Heavy fighting continues in the eastern Ukrainian town of Kreminna, a Ukrainian official said, as Russia brings in large numbers of troops to bolster its forces there. Follow for the latest.




www.cnn.com





4 hr 39 min ago
It's past 4 p.m. in Kyiv. Here's what you need to know​From CNN staff

If you're just joining us, here's everything you need to know about Wednesday's developments in Russia's war in Ukraine.
*Russian shelling continues: *Moscow struck Oleshky and Kherson in the south and Kharkiv in the east.

*The shelling in Oleshky *killed at least one man, injured five others, and damaged a high-rise building and kiosks on the town’s market, according to Mayor Yevhen Ryshchuk.
*Russia hit Kherson city 23 times in the past 24 hours *and the larger Kherson region was impacted 50 times, said Yaroslav Yanushevych, head of the Kherson regional military administration. The strike targets included a maternity ward where there were no casualties, according to Kyrylo Tymoshenko, deputy head of the office of the president of Ukraine. However, other shelling did injure three civilians to varying degrees, officials said.
*A district of the northeastern city of Kharkiv* was hit with rockets on Wednesday, injuring one civilian, according to Oleh Syniehubov, the head of the Kharkiv regional military administration.





*Moscow bans oil supply to countries that agreed to price caps: *Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on Tuesday banning oil supplies to countries that have introduced a price cap on Russian crude oil at $60 a barrel, according to the decree published on the Kremlin’s website — a move that may prove to be largely symbolic. The United States, Canada, the European Union, Japan, the United Kingdom and Australia all agreed to the price cap.
*The power situation in Ukraine: *The electricity deficit in the Ukrainian power grid grew on Wednesday due to shelling of gas infrastructure in eastern Ukraine, according to the latest update from state power utility Ukrenergo. While the deficit did not mean further power restrictions due to relatively warm weather, "the available capacity in the system is not enough to meet all the needs of consumers in the country," Ukrenergo said, adding that all regions have been informed about consumption limits. Ukraine has been facing a wide assault on critical infrastructure and power sources since early October, with the power grid suffering through nine missile and 12 Russian UAV attacks, according to Ukrenergo.


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## Reashot Xigwin

These must be the famous Russian armor division I keep hearing about.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608199414967066624
Pro tip: Point the turret backward when moving.

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## khansaheeb

Reashot Xigwin said:


> These must be the famous Russian armor division I keep hearing about.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608199414967066624
> Pro tip: Point the turret backward when moving.


environmental terrorists.









Russia-Ukraine War: Ukraine Steps Up Efforts to Evacuate Kherson Residents


The government is offering free train rides and cash payments to those who choose to leave the embattled city.




www.nytimes.com





Russia-Ukraine WarUkraine Steps Up Efforts to Evacuate Kherson Residents​

Give this article










KyivA Ukrainian soldier's funeral.
Laura Boushnak for The New York Times





Zhytomyr regionUkrainian soldiers in a trench near the border with Belarus.
Viacheslav Ratynskyi/Reuters

LymanUkrainian soldiers walking on tracks left by military vehicles.
Tyler Hicks/The New York Times

BuchaResidents donating blood.
Laura Boushnak for The New York Times

BakhmutSmoke from Russian strikes.
Libkos/Associated Press

BuchaThe funeral of a Ukrainian soldier.
Laura Boushnak for The New York Times

BuchaA concert for Ukrainian soldiers.
Laura Boushnak for The New York Times

BakhmutResidents collecting bags of coal.
Tyler Hicks/The New York Times

DolynaWalking past a destroyed monastery.
Sameer Al-Doumy/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images



















Here’s what we know:​The government is offering free train rides and cash payments to those who choose to leave the embattled city.

Moscow takes aim at Kherson City with missiles and rockets.
Exxon Mobil sues to try to block Europe windfall tax.
‘An awful milestone’: Paul Whelan’s detention in Russia hits four years.
France’s defense minister visits Kyiv to discuss further military support.
Russia rejects a new Ukrainian proposal for peace talks.
A Russian tycoon and his travel companion are found dead in India.
In a wartime mystery, the Baltic seabed provides a nearly ideal crime scene.


Moscow takes aim at Kherson City with missiles and rockets.​
Image




Workers carrying furniture from a hospital maternity unit in Kherson, Ukraine, on Wednesday after Russian shelling damaged the building.Credit...Dimitar Dilkoff/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images





Russian forces launched a missile attack and nearly three dozen rockets at Kherson City over the past day, the Ukrainian military said on Wednesday, and officials called on residents to evacuate the embattled southern city where Moscow has stepped up artillery strikes.
The strikes hit a maternity ward where at least five women were recovering after giving birth, according to Kyrylo Tymoshenko, the deputy head of the Ukrainian president’s office. “Miraculously, no one was hurt,” he said.
Images shared by Mr. Tymoshenko on Telegram, the social messaging app, after the strike on Tuesday showed blown-out windows, a hole in the roof and piles of rubble in one of the rooms.
Kherson has been battered by shelling since Ukraine retook the city last month, with Russian forces using new defensive positions on the opposite bank of the Dnipro River to launch near-daily barrages at the city. At least 10 people were killed in the city in shelling on Saturday, officials said.
On Tuesday, Ukraine’s Ministry of Reintegration renewed a plea for residents to leave Kherson, quoting Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk as saying, “The enemy does not stop shelling.” The ministry, which helps manage affairs in land that had been occupied by Russia, said on Facebook that about 300 people were departing Kherson every afternoon on an evacuation train headed west to the city of Khmelnytski. Most of them are older people, those with reduced mobility, women and children.
Passage on the evacuation trains is free of charge, with the Ukrainian government urging civilians to leave regions of active fighting and spend the winter in safer areas to the north and east. The government has promised free shelter and cash payments to those who heed the call to evacuate.
The toll of Russia’s war has continued to grow. The United Nations’ human rights office, in its latest tally of civilian casualties in the war, said it had recorded the deaths of 6,884 people in Ukraine due to fighting as of Monday. Nearly 11,000 people had been wounded, the office said, while emphasizing that in both cases the real figures were likely to be “considerably higher.”
— Shashank Bengali

Exxon Mobil sues to try to block Europe windfall tax.​
Image




Exxon Mobil storage tanks in the Netherlands in 2021.Credit...Peter Dejong/Associated Press





Exxon Mobil has tried to block what it called a “counterproductive” new windfall tax imposed by the European Commission as part of efforts to ease the sting of soaring energy prices across the 27-nation bloc.
The American oil giant’s subsidiaries in Germany and the Netherlands filed a lawsuit in the General Court of the European Union in Luxembourg on Wednesday. The court must now decide whether to take up the case, which claimed that the European Council lacked the authority to impose the tax.
Since the disruption to fossil fuel deliveries to Europe following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in February, major oil and gas companies have raked in multibillion-dollar profits, while consumers have faced energy prices that have more than doubled.
Exxon said earlier this year that the tax would cost the company $2 billion through 2023. The company reported global profits of $20 billion for this year.
A spokesman for Exxon Mobil, Casey Norton, said that while the company recognized the burden that high energy bills have placed on families and businesses in Europe, it did not agree that a windfall tax would solve the problem.
_“_This tax will undermine investor confidence, discourage investment, and increase reliance on imported energy and fuel products,” Mr. Norton said. “European industries already face a very real competitiveness crisis, and governments should be supporting the production of reliable and affordable energy.”
The European Council, which is the executive branch of the E.U., passed the tax under a clause that allows it to surpass the bloc’s parliament in emergency situations, which Exxon argues is overreaching the body’s authority. The tax is to take effect Dec. 31.
Individual E.U. member states have enacted their own policies to try to spread the pain of high energy bills.
This month, the German Parliament passed legislation aimed at halting spiraling electricity and gas bills for households and industry by capping the price of gas and electricity based on last year’s levels. The package, which sets limits on bonuses for managers of companies benefiting from the law, is funded by a levy on energy producers’ excess profits. The law, which is expected to raise 100 billion euros, or $106 billion, will take effect in March but function retroactively from January.
— Melissa Eddy

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## Reashot Xigwin

Is there someone in Russia that dies from natural causes? I'm seriously curious about this.








Head of Russia's Admiralty Shipyards Dies Suddenly


Dec 24 (Reuters) – A major Russian shipyard that specializes in building non-nuclear submarines said its general director had died suddenly on Saturday after 11 years in the job, but gave no...




gcaptain.com

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## khansaheeb

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Is there someone in Russia that dies from natural causes? I'm seriously curious about this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Head of Russia's Admiralty Shipyards Dies Suddenly
> 
> 
> Dec 24 (Reuters) – A major Russian shipyard that specializes in building non-nuclear submarines said its general director had died suddenly on Saturday after 11 years in the job, but gave no...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gcaptain.com


Sudden death syndrome seems to have suddenly started









Lavrov: Ukraine must demilitarize or Russia will do it


KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia's foreign minister on Tuesday warned anew Ukraine that it must demilitarize, threatening further military action and falsely accusing Kyiv and the West of fueling the war that started with Moscow's invasion.




apnews.com





Lavrov: Ukraine must demilitarize or Russia will do it​By E. EDUARDO CASTILLOyesterday





1 of 7
Smoke billows after Russian attacks in the outskirts of Bakhmut, Ukraine, Tuesday, Dec. 27, 2022. (AP Photo/Libkos)


KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia’s foreign minister on Tuesday warned anew Ukraine that it must demilitarize, threatening further military action and falsely accusing Kyiv and the West of fueling the war that started with Moscow’s invasion.
Sergey Lavrov said Ukraine must remove any military threat to Russia — otherwise “the Russian army (will) solve the issue.” His comments also reflected persistent unfounded claims by the Kremlin that Ukraine and its Western allies were responsible for the 10-month war, which has killed tens of thousands of people and displaced millions.
Russia launched the war on Feb. 24, alleging a threat to its security and a plot to bring NATO to its doorstep. Lavrov reiterated on Tuesday that the West was feeding the war in Ukraine to weaken Russia, and said that it depends on Kyiv and Washington how long the conflict will last.
“As for the duration of the conflict, the ball is on the side of the (Kyiv) regime and Washington that stands behind its back,” Lavrov told the state Tass news agency. “They may stop senseless resistance at any moment.”
In an apparent reaction, Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak tweeted that “Russia needs to face the reality.”
RUSSIA-UKRAINE WAR​


Chechens in Bosnia seek to dodge Russian draft, reach EU​

The AP Interview: Ukraine FM aims for February peace summit​




Russia says it shot down Ukrainian drone near air base​

Putin claims Moscow ready for Ukraine talks as attacks go on​
“Neither total mobilization, nor panicky search for ammo, nor secret contracts with Iran, nor Lavrov’s threats will help,” he said. “Ukraine will demilitarize the RF (Russian Federation) to the end, oust the invaders from all occupied territories. Wait for the finale silently…”

A day earlier, Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba told the Associated Press in an interview that his government wants a summit to end the war but that he doesn’t anticipate Russia taking part.
Kuleba said Ukraine wants a “peace” summit within two months with U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres acting as mediator. But he also said that Russia must face a war crimes tribunal before before his country directly talks with Moscow.
Both statements illustrate how complex and difficult any attempts to end the war could be. Ukraine has said in the past that it wouldn’t negotiate with Russia before the full withdrawal of its troops, while Moscow insists its military gains and the 2014 annexation of the Crimean Peninsula cannot be ignored.
Testifying to the hardships of war, families of Ukrainian prisoners of war believed held by Russia on Tuesday said the Christmas holiday season is particularly painful and appealed for more to be done to bring their loves ones back home.
Neither Ukraine nor Russia have revealed the exact numbers of POWs they hold, while hundreds have been released as part of prisoner exchanges. Iryna Latysh’s husband Yevhen was captured exactly 300 days ago, in the early days of the war, and she says Christmas isn’t the same without him.
“We were decorating the Christmas tree together this time last year,” she sobbed. “We put the star together, the decorations.”
U.N. human rights investigators have warned that Ukrainian POWs appear to be facing “systematic” mistreatment — including torture — both when they are captured and when they are transferred into areas controlled by Russian forces or Russia itself.
Meanwhile, fierce fighting continued on Tuesday in the Russia-claimed Donetsk and Luhansk regions that recently have been the scene of the most intense clashes.
Ukraine’s Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar said that Russian forces are trying to encircle the city of Bakhmut in the Donetsk region, but without success. Heavy battles are also underway around the city of Kreminna in the Luhansk region, Luhansk governor Serhiy Haidai said.
In the partially occupied southern Kherson region, Russian forces shelled Ukrainian-held areas 40 times on Monday, wounding one person, Ukrainian authorities said. The city of Kherson itself — which Ukraine retook last month in a major win — was targeted 11 times, said regional administrator Yaroslav Yanushevich.
Since its initial advances at the start of the war 10 months ago, Russia has made few major gains, often pummeling Ukraine’s infrastructure instead and leaving millions without electricity, heating and hot water amid winter conditions.
Lavrov didn’t specify how the Russian army will achieve its goals of demilitarizing and “denazifying” Ukraine — which was Russia’s stated goal when the invasion started in February. The reference to “denazification” comes from Russia’s allegations that the Ukrainian government is heavily influenced by radical nationalist and neo-Nazi groups. The claim is derided by Ukraine and the West.
Lavrov warned further Western support for Ukraine could lead to direct confrontation.
“We keep warning our adversaries in the West about the dangers of their course to escalate the Ukrainian crisis,” he said, adding that “the risk that the situation could spin out of control remains high.”
“The strategic goal of the U.S. and its NATO allies is to win a victory over Russia on the battlefield to significantly weaken or even destroy our country,” he said.
On Tuesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree banning oil exports to countries that support a $60-per-barrel price cap that was declared by the European Union and Group of Seven countries in a bid to reduce Moscow’s revenue during wartime. The ban takes effect in February and will run through July.
The price cap is higher than what Russian oil has sold for in recent weeks, so the potential effects of Putin’s ban are uncertain.
___
Follow the AP’s coverage of the war at https://apnews.com/hub/russia-ukraine


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## Beny Karachun

Reashot Xigwin said:


> These must be the famous Russian armor division I keep hearing about.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608199414967066624
> Pro tip: Point the turret backward when moving.


Clearly, elite veteran tank crews.


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## BHAN85

Beny Karachun said:


> Not really.
> They generally need way lighter loads and way less physical demand.


I said "a woman", singular.

In the average, women have less physical strength than men.


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## Beny Karachun

BHAN85 said:


> I said "a woman", singular.
> 
> In the average, women have less physical strength than men.


Unless we talk about roided out women with 2000ng/dL testosterone count, a strong female soldier might be stronger than a relatively weak male soldier, but has no chance against a strong soldier. 

Incorporating females into a combat unit makes the males carry more weight and thus hurts combat efficiency.
Female combat soldiers here are only in very low intensity fronts like Egypt and Jordan valley. It's best to let women be in roles like reconnaissance through drones and border optics, operate mortars, artillery command centers, air defense units. Not with guns at the frontline.

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## Corax

khansaheeb said:


> Just challenging your delusional Australian self importance and highlighting the insignificant penal colony country that you are. Don't forget your history.



He's not Australian. He's claimed descent from a whole bunch of nationalities and cultural backgrounds...from Chinese to Latin American. He knows fcuk all about anything as proven multiple times on this thread, but claims to be an "expert" and "in the field".

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## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> which means your side is behind, because it cant have effective strategy without knowing what the opposite sie is thinking.
> 
> but its Ukranians who have died like cannon fodder in Bakmut- you've got it reversed here buddy- Ukraine lost so many soldiers in Bakhmut- even the Ukranian troops in Bakhmut couldnt hide the fact that so many Ukranian troops had been neutralised there- Ukrainian army tried to hide that fact by just sending more soldiers there- and Russia gladly continued to denazify good Ukrainian ground forces- easier in one place/Bakhmut than chasing them all over Ukraine no?
> 
> Ukraine DID use up ALOT of its men- the "Bakhmut meat grinder " is now a historical phrase and reality in the Ukraine war- this is reality, not a fake cartoon character like ghost of Kiev.
> 
> lmao..you're so behind, no wonder Ukraine is losing territory daily now- its war plans are broken - no electricity, no transformers, no artillery on the frontline, no real APCs, now using pick uip trucks, obv no fuel, no morale- lots of POWs being captured daily.
> 
> But the war is still heavy, but i am seeing signs that Russia's military is well supported and greased up on the "back end", but Ukraine's back end war logistics is in horrible shapes- no trains to transport military personnel and equipment due to denazification of Ukraine's power grid, no artillery, no warm meals on the frontline right as COLD winter sets in...low equipment supply to Ukrainian troops, thats why they fire few artillery (and are dying more because of that).
> 
> I know who has the momentum in this war as of today- its Russia.




Conscription, the worlds last remaining but biggest and yet most unrecognised form of exploitation (some would even say slavery) which disproportionately affects men (many barely past boyhood) who are someone's son, father, brother or husband, forced to fight and die for the political beliefs and greed of maniac killers. And According to eye witness reports from Ukraine the Russians always attack with three lines. The first line is conscipts, the second regular army and the third is the Wagnar mercenaries who's job is too shoot any Russian soldiers retreating from the first two lines. No wonder Russian morale is in the toilet.A new mobilisation is on the way in Russia, and Martial law to prevent young men from leaving the country. Russia is running out of everything and one day the average Russian will realise the mistake of backing a maniac. Now dependant on Iranian drones and North Korean ammunition.


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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Is there someone in Russia that dies from natural causes? I'm seriously curious about this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Head of Russia's Admiralty Shipyards Dies Suddenly
> 
> 
> Dec 24 (Reuters) – A major Russian shipyard that specializes in building non-nuclear submarines said its general director had died suddenly on Saturday after 11 years in the job, but gave no...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gcaptain.com


if you consider the amount of alcohol consumed there , I say hardly


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## jhungary

Corax said:


> He's not Australian. He's claimed descent from a whole bunch of nationalities and cultural backgrounds...from Chinese to Latin American. He knows fcuk all about anything as proven multiple times on this thread, but claims to be an "expert" and "in the field".


And you know fu ck?? I don't even need to know "all"


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## The SC

Heavy clashes..


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608224954625003520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607757139933597696
A group of Polish volunteers was hit by a Russian drone..





Russian Mi-8 helicopters attack the Ukrainian army everywhere in Bakhmut..





As the war in Ukraine drags on, NATO's massive effort to support Ukrainian forces with ISR aircraft has become more apparent than ever..

This map shows ISR flight activity in Europe from November 5 to December 20, 2022.

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## The SC

Targeting the Russian infantry at night with artillery shells and using drones equipped with thermal cameras to correct fire..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607795698396811265


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608274323109974021
Ukraines HIMARS about to get more advanced

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608287754009432065
Don’t be surprised if the Russian front from Svatove to Kreminna collapses in the next few weeks

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khansaheeb

Russia Intensifies Attacks on Kherson, Eastern Ukraine


Russian gas exports to Europe via pipelines plummeted to post-Soviet low in 2022 as its largest customer cut imports because of the war in Ukraine




www.voanews.com





Russia Intensifies Attacks on Kherson, Eastern Ukraine​
December 28, 2022 6:23 AMUPDATE December 28, 2022 6:20 PM

VOA News





FILE - Cars burn and smoke raises after a deadly Russian rocket attack hit the city center in Kherson, Ukraine, Dec. 24, 2022.
Share


Print
Russian forces increased their bombing and artillery attacks Wednesday on Kherson in southern Ukraine and continued to apply significant force along the front lines in the east, Ukraine's military said.
Russia launched dozens of missiles from multiple locations at civilian targets in Kherson, a city it abandoned in mid-November, according to the General Staff of Ukraine's Armed Forces, though Russia denies targeting civilians.
Russia also shelled 25 settlements around Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, the general staff said. It said some Russian forces were leaving their posts around Zaporizhzhia. Reuters could not independently verify the battlefield reports.
Heavy fighting continued around the Ukrainian-held city of Bakhmut in the eastern province of Donetsk. Around the cities of Svatove and Kreminna in Luhansk province, northeast of Donetsk, Ukrainian forces are on the offensive trying to rupture Russia’s defensive lines.



SEE ALSO:
Putin Bans Russian Oil Exports to Countries That Imposed Price Cap​
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is advocating a 10-point peace plan that calls for Russia to recognize Ukraine's territory and withdraw its troops.
But the Kremlin dismissed the proposal, doubling down on its stance that Kyiv must accept the annexation Russia carried out in September after referendums rejected by Ukraine and most other nations as shams. The four Ukrainian regions include Luhansk and Donetsk in the east, and Kherson and Zaporizhzhia in the south.
"There can be no peace plan for Ukraine that does not take into account today's realities regarding Russian territory, with the entry of four regions into Russia," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Wednesday. "Plans that do not take these realities into account cannot be peaceful."
Also on Wednesday, Zelenskyy addressed the Ukrainian parliament in a closed-door session, urging lawmakers to remain united against Russia's aggression, while praising Ukrainians for leading the West to "find itself again.”
"Our national colors are today an international symbol of courage and indomitability of the whole world," he said in his 45-minute speech, his last of the year.
"In any country, in any continent, when you see blue and yellow, you know it's about freedom. About the people who did not surrender, who stood, who united the world, and which will win," he said.



SEE ALSO:
Deal Reached For New Non-Russian Power Source for Europe​
Zelenskyy said the world had seen that freedom can be triumphant through Ukraine's gains on the battlefield, and he thanked Ukraine's military.
Zelenskyy noted Ukraine has gained the release of 1,456 prisoners of war since Russia’s invasion 10 months ago. Russia is believed to have thousands of Ukrainian prisoners of war, though actual figures are not known.




Ukrainian service members have lunch at a position near the border with Belarus, amid Russia's attack on Ukraine, in Zhytomyr region, Ukraine Dec. 27, 2022.
*Gas exports*
Russian gas exports to Europe — its largest consumer of Russia gas and oil — hit a post-Soviet low in 2022. European and Gazprom data and Reuters metrics show Russia dramatically lowered exports via pipeline because of the conflict and mysterious blasts that damaged Nord Stream 2, one of two major pipelines that run along the bottom of the Baltic Sea.

The European Union had long talked about minimizing its reliance on Russian energy, but Brussels actually did so when Moscow invaded Ukraine in February.



SEE ALSO:
US, NATO Weapons Pave the Way for Ukraine's Battlefield Successes​
State-controlled Gazprom, citing Chief Executive Officer Alexei Miller, said its exports outside of ex-Soviet Union states will reach 100.9 billion cubic meters (bcm) this year.

That is a plunge of about 45% from 185.1 bcm in 2021. It includes supplies to China through the Siberia pipeline, through which Gazprom supplied 10.39 bcm last year.
Russian direct gas exports to Germany, Europe's largest economy, were halted in September following blasts that crippled two Nord Stream pipelines.
_Some material for this article came from The Associated Press, Reuters and Agence France-Presse._

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## Stranagor

Dalit said:


> You guys claimed that the war against Russia was going to be easy



Inverted logic, if any. 

It is Russia's war against Ukraine. It is Ukrainian land Russia is attempting to occupy. The question should be if the war against Ukraine is an easy one or not - such as whether the official 72-hour mission timeframe have been breached or not. 

Easy, no? 

Given that the original aggressor is Russia, analysis must be made to see if its objectives for aggression has been achieved or not.

Ukrainian objective is simple: Drive the Russians back home and exact a long-term, costly price on them.

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## Reashot Xigwin

It's official. Russia lost the battle of Bakhmut according to UK intelligence. They also about to get kicked out of Kremina. 

I sure hope Prigozin isn't anywhere near a window right now.

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## Stranagor

Dalit said:


> There are plenty of members that were boasting how Russia was going to be a walkover.



You mean Ukrainian tanks marching into the Red Square? That's an overstretch.



Dalit said:


> Let's face it, Russia has managed to sustain the war without too much fuss. On the contrary, the war in Ukraine has impacted the entire world economically and in various other ways.



So, as you understand it, the entire world has been affected, but Russia hasn't?



Dalit said:


> You should be worried about China Russia nexus because the war in Ukraine has brought the two closer than ever.



Indeed, in terms of governance, the two are looking increasingly similar. Throw into the duo Iran and North Korea, as well. There's your QUAD right there. 



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608151668776144898



And Russia is still looking for Nazis in Ukraine? Why not look somewhere closer home? That above interview is an example of abject fascism. 



Dalit said:


> Russia and China see it as a partnership.



I think it is more of a dependency than partnership as China has the ultimate upper hand. Russia did away with most of its bargaining power in resources, even vis a vis Turkey. 

Before the war, it was all about balancing one another. For example, Russia invited India into the SCO to balance China's influence. Russia pushed for Japan and SK participation in the Arctic Council to balance China. Russia even talked to SK and Japan to build pipeline to reduce its singular dependency on China. Russia had been wary of growing Chinese influence in its backyard, Central Asia. 

But, the war has upended this balance, making Russia a lesser, junior partner with much narrower room for strategic maneuver. 

China will play along. Rightly so. It would not make sense not to make use of this situation. All Russian energy customers are trying to take advantage of this.

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## sammuel

~

There have been speculations since the summer , how long can Russia keep firing at a rate of more than half a million shells a month , and not run out of shells or have cannon problems.

One of Russia few advantages is it's huge artillery , how would they manage without it ?









*Artillery Ammo “Hunger” Began in the “Second Army of the World”: the Military was Ordered to Collect Spent Shell Casings*​*28.12.2022*

The “Hunger” for artillery ammo, which began to catch up with the Russian army at the end of August, worsened significantly in December. Ammunition warehouses are being depleted, there is nowhere to import Soviet-style shells from, and the defense industry cannot cope with orders.

This was written by the Telegram channel “Spy’s Dossier “. It is noted that in early December, the commanders of artillery units of the RF Armed Forces were even ordered to collect spent 152-mm caliber casings so that they could be reused.

“There is an interesting nuance in a recent video that has circulated around the Internet, in which two servicemen of the Wagner PMC call the Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Federation Valery Gerasimov “f*ck for nothing”. PMCs consider Gerasimov a representative of sexual minorities due to the lack of artillery shells among the military,” says the message.

It is noted that artillery ammo “hunger” is a problem for both warring armies. But if the Armed Forces of Ukraine manage to solve this problem, primarily through constant Western assistance and a gradual transition from Soviet 122-mm and 152-mm caliber guns to NATO 155-mm caliber, then the Russians will be worse off.

“In addition to the Soviet 122-mm and 152-mm calibers, 155-mm cannons appeared in the arsenal of the Ukrainian army. Despite this, something still manages to be found. If you look at the latest package of military assistance to Ukraine from the United States, among other things there are 45,000 152 mm artillery shells, 20,000 122 mm artillery shells, and 50,000 122 mm shells for Grad systems. According to a report by the US Department of Defense, more than 1 million artillery shells of various calibers were transferred to Ukraine by the end of November.” writes the author of the Spy Dossier channel.

At the same time in Russia, according to him, the stock of shells, which by the beginning of the war was estimated as “approximately endless”, began to dry up at the end of August 2022. A significant role in this, in addition to stubborn artillery duels, was played by the use of MLRS HIMARS by Ukraine. Having the appropriate intelligence and satellite images, the Armed Forces of Ukraine each time managed to hit artillery depots deep behind enemy lines, reducing the firepower of the RF Armed Forces.

“In addition, there are questions about the quality of the ammunition itself. More than one document passed through my hands, with complaints from the chiefs of artillery units about the unsuitability for the use of shells. Ammunition that was stored in warehouses for decades simply “outlived its usefulness,” the report says.

It is noted that due to the inability to purchase shells abroad, the leadership of the Russian Federation is mobilizing the mass production of the necessary ammunition within the country, but the defense industry cannot cope with the orders.

“The problem is so tangible that in early December, the commanders of the artillery units of the RF Armed Forces were tasked with taking personal control over the organization of the return of spent 152-mm caliber cartridges so that they could be reused,” concludes the author of the Spy’s Dossier channel.

Earlier, OBOZREVATEL reported that a mega-scandal broke out in the military leadership of Russia: the gunners of the PMC “Wagner” obscenely insulted the Chief of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces Gerasimov due to the lack of shells, and the owner of the PMC, Prigozhin, confirmed the authenticity of the appeal and added that he would “force” Gerasimov to act.










Artillery Ammo “Hunger” Began in the “Second Army of the World”: the Military was Ordered to Collect Spent Shell Casings


28.12.2022 Translated from Ukrainian via Google and OFP The “Hunger” for artillery ammo, which began to catch up with the Russian army at the end of August, worsened significantly in De…




ukrainetoday.org

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## vi-va

Stranagor said:


> Inverted logic, if any.
> 
> It is Russia's war against Ukraine. It is Ukrainian land Russia is attempting to occupy. The question should be if the war against Ukraine is an easy one or not - such as whether the official 72-hour mission timeframe have been breached or not.
> 
> Easy, no?
> 
> Given that the original aggressor is Russia, analysis must be made to see if its objectives for aggression has been achieved or not.
> 
> Ukrainian objective is simple: Drive the Russians back home and exact a long-term, costly price on them.





vi-va said:


> In my humble opinion.
> 
> *Russia has lost the war politically and strategically, regardless the thrust towards The Dnieper River seems unstoppable.*
> 
> Attrition warfare is not in Russia's interest at all. Definitely the worst way to win the heart of Ukrainians. Russia original plan was a lightning war, but failed. Feel sorry for Russians.
> 
> The generals of Russia army and intelligence underestimated Ukraine, which is fatal.
> 
> *Never underestimate your rival.*



I said Russia lost the war in mid-July, ppl laughed at me.

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## vi-va

Stranagor said:


> You mean Ukrainian tanks marching into the Red Square? That's an overstretch.
> 
> 
> 
> So, as you face it, the entire world has been affected, but Russia hasn't?
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, in terms of governance, the two are looking increasingly similar. Throw into the duo Iran and North Korea, as well. There's your QUAD right there.
> 
> 
> 
> And Russia is still looking for Nazis in Ukraine? Why not look somewhere closer home? That above interview is an example of abject fascism.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is more of a dependency than partnership as China has the ultimate upper hand. Russia did away with most of its bargaining power in resources, even vis a vis Turkey.
> 
> Before the war, it was all about balancing one another. For example, Russia invited India into the SCO to balance China's influence. Russia pushed for Japan and SK participation in the Arctic Council to balance China. Russia even talked to SK and Japan to build pipeline to reduce its singular dependency on China. Russia had been wary of growing Chinese influence in its backyard, Central Asia.
> 
> But, the war has upended this balance, making Russia a lesser, junior partner with much narrower room for strategic maneuver.
> 
> China will play along. Rightly so. It would not make sense not to make use of this situation. All Russian energy customers are trying to take advantage of this.


Before the damn war, U.S. Trump regime even tried to lure Russia against China, while I haven't seen Russia reject the proposal, they are waiting for a good offer. While apparently, U.S. was just making empty promise, nothing materialized.

Now, India, Vietnam, Japan and SK are staying away from Russia. Yes, India is buying Russia oil, asking for huge discount.

Russia literally lost influence in Central Asia, especially Kazakhstan. Russia gained nothing from the damn war.

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## Stranagor

vi-va said:


> Before the damn war, U.S. Trump regime even tried to lure Russia against China, while I haven't seen Russia reject the proposal, they are waiting for a good offer. While apparently, U.S. was just making empty promise, nothing materialized.
> 
> Now, India, Vietnam, Japan and SK are staying away from Russia. Yes, India is buying Russia oil, asking for huge discount.
> 
> Russia literally lost influence in Central Asia, especially Kazakhstan. Russia gained nothing from the damn war.



The problem with one-man regimes is that even though they appear efficient and neat on the surface (after all no credible democratic process is involved in decision making), due to lack of due process, debate, public participation and accountability, one single wrong decision may lead to disastrous outcomes.

It does not matter a hundred decisions were made rightly. One collosal mistake does away all the gains. Worst yet, the system does rarely possess self-correcting attributes. 

All one can hope for is that the supreme leader somehow voluntarily steps down or simply dies from a heart attack. Otherwise, it is all painful waiting.

That's what Russia has evolved into under a one-man rule.

It is anticipated that Russia will lose further bargaining power and will come at the mercy of energy customers, led by China. 

***









Deal Reached For New Non-Russian Power Source for Europe


The agreement involves a cable running beneath the Black Sea that would link Azerbaijan to Hungary via Georgia and Romania




www.voanews.com






BUCHAREST, ROMANIA — 
The leaders of Hungary, Romania, Georgia and Azerbaijan finalized an agreement Saturday on an undersea electricity connector that could become a new power source for the European Union amid a crunch on energy supplies caused by the war in Ukraine.

The agreement involves a cable running beneath the Black Sea that would link Azerbaijan to Hungary via Georgia and Romania.

...

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## Viet

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> There have been speculations since the summer , how long can Russia keep firing at a rate of more than half a million shells a month , and not run out of shells or cannon problems.
> 
> One of Russia few advantages is it's huge artillery , how would they manage without it ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Artillery Ammo “Hunger” Began in the “Second Army of the World”: the Military was Ordered to Collect Spent Shell Casings*​*28.12.2022*
> 
> The “Hunger” for artillery ammo, which began to catch up with the Russian army at the end of August, worsened significantly in December. Ammunition warehouses are being depleted, there is nowhere to import Soviet-style shells from, and the defense industry cannot cope with orders.
> 
> This was written by the Telegram channel “Spy’s Dossier “. It is noted that in early December, the commanders of artillery units of the RF Armed Forces were even ordered to collect spent 152-mm caliber casings so that they could be reused.
> 
> “There is an interesting nuance in a recent video that has circulated around the Internet, in which two servicemen of the Wagner PMC call the Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Federation Valery Gerasimov “f*ck for nothing”. PMCs consider Gerasimov a representative of sexual minorities due to the lack of artillery shells among the military,” says the message.
> 
> It is noted that artillery ammo “hunger” is a problem for both warring armies. But if the Armed Forces of Ukraine manage to solve this problem, primarily through constant Western assistance and a gradual transition from Soviet 122-mm and 152-mm caliber guns to NATO 155-mm caliber, then the Russians will be worse off.
> 
> “In addition to the Soviet 122-mm and 152-mm calibers, 155-mm cannons appeared in the arsenal of the Ukrainian army. Despite this, something still manages to be found. If you look at the latest package of military assistance to Ukraine from the United States, among other things there are 45,000 152 mm artillery shells, 20,000 122 mm artillery shells, and 50,000 122 mm shells for Grad systems. According to a report by the US Department of Defense, more than 1 million artillery shells of various calibers were transferred to Ukraine by the end of November.” writes the author of the Spy Dossier channel.
> 
> At the same time in Russia, according to him, the stock of shells, which by the beginning of the war was estimated as “approximately endless”, began to dry up at the end of August 2022. A significant role in this, in addition to stubborn artillery duels, was played by the use of MLRS HIMARS by Ukraine. Having the appropriate intelligence and satellite images, the Armed Forces of Ukraine each time managed to hit artillery depots deep behind enemy lines, reducing the firepower of the RF Armed Forces.
> 
> “In addition, there are questions about the quality of the ammunition itself. More than one document passed through my hands, with complaints from the chiefs of artillery units about the unsuitability for the use of shells. Ammunition that was stored in warehouses for decades simply “outlived its usefulness,” the report says.
> 
> It is noted that due to the inability to purchase shells abroad, the leadership of the Russian Federation is mobilizing the mass production of the necessary ammunition within the country, but the defense industry cannot cope with the orders.
> 
> “The problem is so tangible that in early December, the commanders of the artillery units of the RF Armed Forces were tasked with taking personal control over the organization of the return of spent 152-mm caliber cartridges so that they could be reused,” concludes the author of the Spy’s Dossier channel.
> 
> Earlier, OBOZREVATEL reported that a mega-scandal broke out in the military leadership of Russia: the gunners of the PMC “Wagner” obscenely insulted the Chief of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces Gerasimov due to the lack of shells, and the owner of the PMC, Prigozhin, confirmed the authenticity of the appeal and added that he would “force” Gerasimov to act.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artillery Ammo “Hunger” Began in the “Second Army of the World”: the Military was Ordered to Collect Spent Shell Casings
> 
> 
> 28.12.2022 Translated from Ukrainian via Google and OFP The “Hunger” for artillery ammo, which began to catch up with the Russian army at the end of August, worsened significantly in De…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ukrainetoday.org


It’s more. Russia conventional ammo stockpile is huge. The Russians say peace but since years they preparing for wars.
During summer offensive Russia artillery fired 60k per day or 1.8 million shells per month. Now the stockpile is low however they still fire that 20k per day or 600k rounds per month.


----------



## alimobin memon

Viet said:


> It’s more. Russia conventional ammo stockpile is huge. The Russians say peace but they prepare for wars.
> During summer offensive Russia artillery fired 60k or 1.8 million shells per day. Now the stockpile is low however they still fire that 20k or 600k rounds per day.


They will reproduce.

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## Viet

alimobin memon said:


> They will reproduce.


the Russians can’t make anything useful in daily life but they are good at making weapons in great numbers. Putin now copies uncle Kim North Korea and adopts a “military first” strategy. Every money goes to military first. Ammo factories run 2 shifts per day.


----------



## alimobin memon

Viet said:


> the Russians can’t make anything useful in daily life but they are good at making weapons in great numbers. Putin now copies uncle Kim North Korea and adopts a “military first” strategy. Every money goes to military first.


Listen we are not living in Russia. I can assure you everyone is same in every corner its the media press that shows only negative side of the countries. To west and many asians Russians are evil to some they are good. We will never know the reality as we know the real west situation right now.

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## Deino

Upps 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608364847233921024

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## RescueRanger

Seems both sides are fraught to a deadlock. Only negotiations can bring about an end to this quagmire l, it would seem that Poland, Moldova and Hungary are hesitant for more advanced weapons to flow into Ukraine.



khansaheeb said:


> Russia Intensifies Attacks on Kherson, Eastern Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russian gas exports to Europe via pipelines plummeted to post-Soviet low in 2022 as its largest customer cut imports because of the war in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Intensifies Attacks on Kherson, Eastern Ukraine​
> December 28, 2022 6:23 AMUPDATE December 28, 2022 6:20 PM
> 
> VOA News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FILE - Cars burn and smoke raises after a deadly Russian rocket attack hit the city center in Kherson, Ukraine, Dec. 24, 2022.
> Share
> 
> 
> Print
> Russian forces increased their bombing and artillery attacks Wednesday on Kherson in southern Ukraine and continued to apply significant force along the front lines in the east, Ukraine's military said.
> Russia launched dozens of missiles from multiple locations at civilian targets in Kherson, a city it abandoned in mid-November, according to the General Staff of Ukraine's Armed Forces, though Russia denies targeting civilians.
> Russia also shelled 25 settlements around Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, the general staff said. It said some Russian forces were leaving their posts around Zaporizhzhia. Reuters could not independently verify the battlefield reports.
> Heavy fighting continued around the Ukrainian-held city of Bakhmut in the eastern province of Donetsk. Around the cities of Svatove and Kreminna in Luhansk province, northeast of Donetsk, Ukrainian forces are on the offensive trying to rupture Russia’s defensive lines.
> 
> 
> 
> SEE ALSO:
> Putin Bans Russian Oil Exports to Countries That Imposed Price Cap​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is advocating a 10-point peace plan that calls for Russia to recognize Ukraine's territory and withdraw its troops.
> But the Kremlin dismissed the proposal, doubling down on its stance that Kyiv must accept the annexation Russia carried out in September after referendums rejected by Ukraine and most other nations as shams. The four Ukrainian regions include Luhansk and Donetsk in the east, and Kherson and Zaporizhzhia in the south.
> "There can be no peace plan for Ukraine that does not take into account today's realities regarding Russian territory, with the entry of four regions into Russia," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Wednesday. "Plans that do not take these realities into account cannot be peaceful."
> Also on Wednesday, Zelenskyy addressed the Ukrainian parliament in a closed-door session, urging lawmakers to remain united against Russia's aggression, while praising Ukrainians for leading the West to "find itself again.”
> "Our national colors are today an international symbol of courage and indomitability of the whole world," he said in his 45-minute speech, his last of the year.
> "In any country, in any continent, when you see blue and yellow, you know it's about freedom. About the people who did not surrender, who stood, who united the world, and which will win," he said.
> 
> 
> 
> SEE ALSO:
> Deal Reached For New Non-Russian Power Source for Europe​Zelenskyy said the world had seen that freedom can be triumphant through Ukraine's gains on the battlefield, and he thanked Ukraine's military.
> Zelenskyy noted Ukraine has gained the release of 1,456 prisoners of war since Russia’s invasion 10 months ago. Russia is believed to have thousands of Ukrainian prisoners of war, though actual figures are not known.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian service members have lunch at a position near the border with Belarus, amid Russia's attack on Ukraine, in Zhytomyr region, Ukraine Dec. 27, 2022.
> *Gas exports*
> Russian gas exports to Europe — its largest consumer of Russia gas and oil — hit a post-Soviet low in 2022. European and Gazprom data and Reuters metrics show Russia dramatically lowered exports via pipeline because of the conflict and mysterious blasts that damaged Nord Stream 2, one of two major pipelines that run along the bottom of the Baltic Sea.
> 
> The European Union had long talked about minimizing its reliance on Russian energy, but Brussels actually did so when Moscow invaded Ukraine in February.
> 
> 
> 
> SEE ALSO:
> US, NATO Weapons Pave the Way for Ukraine's Battlefield Successes​State-controlled Gazprom, citing Chief Executive Officer Alexei Miller, said its exports outside of ex-Soviet Union states will reach 100.9 billion cubic meters (bcm) this year.
> 
> That is a plunge of about 45% from 185.1 bcm in 2021. It includes supplies to China through the Siberia pipeline, through which Gazprom supplied 10.39 bcm last year.
> Russian direct gas exports to Germany, Europe's largest economy, were halted in September following blasts that crippled two Nord Stream pipelines.
> _Some material for this article came from The Associated Press, Reuters and Agence France-Presse._


Attacking Kherson now is purely out of spite. There is no real military objective that be achieved by targeting a city of huddles up civilians.

Seems Russia is adopting that tactics of the yazeed in desperation.



sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> There have been speculations since the summer , how long can Russia keep firing at a rate of more than half a million shells a month , and not run out of shells or cannon problems.
> 
> One of Russia few advantages is it's huge artillery , how would they manage without it ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Artillery Ammo “Hunger” Began in the “Second Army of the World”: the Military was Ordered to Collect Spent Shell Casings*​*28.12.2022*
> 
> The “Hunger” for artillery ammo, which began to catch up with the Russian army at the end of August, worsened significantly in December. Ammunition warehouses are being depleted, there is nowhere to import Soviet-style shells from, and the defense industry cannot cope with orders.
> 
> This was written by the Telegram channel “Spy’s Dossier “. It is noted that in early December, the commanders of artillery units of the RF Armed Forces were even ordered to collect spent 152-mm caliber casings so that they could be reused.
> 
> “There is an interesting nuance in a recent video that has circulated around the Internet, in which two servicemen of the Wagner PMC call the Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Federation Valery Gerasimov “f*ck for nothing”. PMCs consider Gerasimov a representative of sexual minorities due to the lack of artillery shells among the military,” says the message.
> 
> It is noted that artillery ammo “hunger” is a problem for both warring armies. But if the Armed Forces of Ukraine manage to solve this problem, primarily through constant Western assistance and a gradual transition from Soviet 122-mm and 152-mm caliber guns to NATO 155-mm caliber, then the Russians will be worse off.
> 
> “In addition to the Soviet 122-mm and 152-mm calibers, 155-mm cannons appeared in the arsenal of the Ukrainian army. Despite this, something still manages to be found. If you look at the latest package of military assistance to Ukraine from the United States, among other things there are 45,000 152 mm artillery shells, 20,000 122 mm artillery shells, and 50,000 122 mm shells for Grad systems. According to a report by the US Department of Defense, more than 1 million artillery shells of various calibers were transferred to Ukraine by the end of November.” writes the author of the Spy Dossier channel.
> 
> At the same time in Russia, according to him, the stock of shells, which by the beginning of the war was estimated as “approximately endless”, began to dry up at the end of August 2022. A significant role in this, in addition to stubborn artillery duels, was played by the use of MLRS HIMARS by Ukraine. Having the appropriate intelligence and satellite images, the Armed Forces of Ukraine each time managed to hit artillery depots deep behind enemy lines, reducing the firepower of the RF Armed Forces.
> 
> “In addition, there are questions about the quality of the ammunition itself. More than one document passed through my hands, with complaints from the chiefs of artillery units about the unsuitability for the use of shells. Ammunition that was stored in warehouses for decades simply “outlived its usefulness,” the report says.
> 
> It is noted that due to the inability to purchase shells abroad, the leadership of the Russian Federation is mobilizing the mass production of the necessary ammunition within the country, but the defense industry cannot cope with the orders.
> 
> “The problem is so tangible that in early December, the commanders of the artillery units of the RF Armed Forces were tasked with taking personal control over the organization of the return of spent 152-mm caliber cartridges so that they could be reused,” concludes the author of the Spy’s Dossier channel.
> 
> Earlier, OBOZREVATEL reported that a mega-scandal broke out in the military leadership of Russia: the gunners of the PMC “Wagner” obscenely insulted the Chief of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces Gerasimov due to the lack of shells, and the owner of the PMC, Prigozhin, confirmed the authenticity of the appeal and added that he would “force” Gerasimov to act.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artillery Ammo “Hunger” Began in the “Second Army of the World”: the Military was Ordered to Collect Spent Shell Casings
> 
> 
> 28.12.2022 Translated from Ukrainian via Google and OFP The “Hunger” for artillery ammo, which began to catch up with the Russian army at the end of August, worsened significantly in De…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ukrainetoday.org


Apparently uncle Kim Jong Un has expressed an interest in fulfilling their ammo shortage. Iranian made arty rounds have also been mentioned on a recent CAS report.


----------



## Dalit

khansaheeb said:


> Russia Intensifies Attacks on Kherson, Eastern Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russian gas exports to Europe via pipelines plummeted to post-Soviet low in 2022 as its largest customer cut imports because of the war in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Intensifies Attacks on Kherson, Eastern Ukraine​
> December 28, 2022 6:23 AMUPDATE December 28, 2022 6:20 PM
> 
> VOA News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FILE - Cars burn and smoke raises after a deadly Russian rocket attack hit the city center in Kherson, Ukraine, Dec. 24, 2022.
> Share
> 
> 
> Print
> Russian forces increased their bombing and artillery attacks Wednesday on Kherson in southern Ukraine and continued to apply significant force along the front lines in the east, Ukraine's military said.
> Russia launched dozens of missiles from multiple locations at civilian targets in Kherson, a city it abandoned in mid-November, according to the General Staff of Ukraine's Armed Forces, though Russia denies targeting civilians.
> Russia also shelled 25 settlements around Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, the general staff said. It said some Russian forces were leaving their posts around Zaporizhzhia. Reuters could not independently verify the battlefield reports.
> Heavy fighting continued around the Ukrainian-held city of Bakhmut in the eastern province of Donetsk. Around the cities of Svatove and Kreminna in Luhansk province, northeast of Donetsk, Ukrainian forces are on the offensive trying to rupture Russia’s defensive lines.
> 
> 
> 
> SEE ALSO:
> Putin Bans Russian Oil Exports to Countries That Imposed Price Cap​
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is advocating a 10-point peace plan that calls for Russia to recognize Ukraine's territory and withdraw its troops.
> But the Kremlin dismissed the proposal, doubling down on its stance that Kyiv must accept the annexation Russia carried out in September after referendums rejected by Ukraine and most other nations as shams. The four Ukrainian regions include Luhansk and Donetsk in the east, and Kherson and Zaporizhzhia in the south.
> "There can be no peace plan for Ukraine that does not take into account today's realities regarding Russian territory, with the entry of four regions into Russia," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Wednesday. "Plans that do not take these realities into account cannot be peaceful."
> Also on Wednesday, Zelenskyy addressed the Ukrainian parliament in a closed-door session, urging lawmakers to remain united against Russia's aggression, while praising Ukrainians for leading the West to "find itself again.”
> "Our national colors are today an international symbol of courage and indomitability of the whole world," he said in his 45-minute speech, his last of the year.
> "In any country, in any continent, when you see blue and yellow, you know it's about freedom. About the people who did not surrender, who stood, who united the world, and which will win," he said.
> 
> 
> 
> SEE ALSO:
> Deal Reached For New Non-Russian Power Source for Europe​
> Zelenskyy said the world had seen that freedom can be triumphant through Ukraine's gains on the battlefield, and he thanked Ukraine's military.
> Zelenskyy noted Ukraine has gained the release of 1,456 prisoners of war since Russia’s invasion 10 months ago. Russia is believed to have thousands of Ukrainian prisoners of war, though actual figures are not known.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian service members have lunch at a position near the border with Belarus, amid Russia's attack on Ukraine, in Zhytomyr region, Ukraine Dec. 27, 2022.
> *Gas exports*
> Russian gas exports to Europe — its largest consumer of Russia gas and oil — hit a post-Soviet low in 2022. European and Gazprom data and Reuters metrics show Russia dramatically lowered exports via pipeline because of the conflict and mysterious blasts that damaged Nord Stream 2, one of two major pipelines that run along the bottom of the Baltic Sea.
> 
> The European Union had long talked about minimizing its reliance on Russian energy, but Brussels actually did so when Moscow invaded Ukraine in February.
> 
> 
> 
> SEE ALSO:
> US, NATO Weapons Pave the Way for Ukraine's Battlefield Successes​
> State-controlled Gazprom, citing Chief Executive Officer Alexei Miller, said its exports outside of ex-Soviet Union states will reach 100.9 billion cubic meters (bcm) this year.
> 
> That is a plunge of about 45% from 185.1 bcm in 2021. It includes supplies to China through the Siberia pipeline, through which Gazprom supplied 10.39 bcm last year.
> Russian direct gas exports to Germany, Europe's largest economy, were halted in September following blasts that crippled two Nord Stream pipelines.
> _Some material for this article came from The Associated Press, Reuters and Agence France-Presse._



Told you so...

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## Viet

alimobin memon said:


> Listen we are not living in Russia. I can assure you everyone is same in every corner its the media press that shows only negative side of the countries. To west and many asians Russians are evil to some they are good. We will never know the reality as we know the real west situation right now.


Nonsense
there is no single voice in the western media. that’s misunderstanding. Take Germany, do you know how many newspapers, tv programs, radio stations, media exist here? That go to thousands. Too many to count. Same for France although the numbers are lower.
If you ask the Germans whether they support Ukraine half of them say no. A recent poll even show 1/3 supports Russia.
As for Asians, chinese support the warmonger Putin, while Vietnamese not. The picture is diverse for other as Koreans, Japanese and Philippines. There is no such thing as division of east and west.

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## RescueRanger

Dalit said:


> Told you so...


Stomach pains from Hungary and Moldova about the patriot batteries being sent to Ukraine. All is not well in the eastern front apparently. 

That said, this is now a stalemate.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608391367843270656


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## kingQamaR

Reashot Xigwin said:


> It's official. Russia lost the battle of Bakhmut according to UK intelligence. They also about to get kicked out of Kremina.
> 
> I sure hope Prigozin isn't anywhere near a window right now.




There is no fighting in the centre of Bakhmut, the Ukrainians hold the city, and they hold the high ground. They have no need to push out from the defensive positions that were dug months ago. The Russians are largely trying to advance over open fields up hill all for Wagners boss to try and gain influence over the Russian Army.

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## hadi1990

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608134009950990336


this is war of nato vs russia on ukraine soil, the russians are at most the early 1990s nato satandard of weaponry and tactics on ground, while the ukrainians are the 2023 nato standard even ahead of nato members in mastering this standard. 
but this is Russia they lost 20 millions and destroyed hitler at the end...
what has caused russians this level of loses are the men behind small drones , drones,and drones implementing smart new artillery rounds (gps, laser, proximity,optical) has really put russians on a doom course.... but the russians still can press the game over, they need to open their eyes they have the necessary devices.
on another hand the best thing for planet earth all parties sit to negotiations...
the first round that hit the bmp is an anti tank smart ammo... the rest are gps aided nato mortars probably 81mm


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## kingQamaR

hadi1990 said:


> this is war of nato vs russia on ukraine soil, the russians are at most the early 1990s nato satandard of weaponry and tactics on ground, while the ukrainians are the 2023 nato standard even ahead of nato members in mastering this standard.
> but this is Russia they lost 20 millions and destroyed hitler at the end...
> what has caused russians this level of loses are the men behind small drones , drones,and drones implementing smart new artillery rounds (gps, laser, proximity,optical) has really put russians on a doom course.... but the russians still can press the game over, they need to open their eyes they have the necessary devices.
> on another hand the best thing for planet earth all parties sit to negotiations...
> the first round that hit the bmp is an anti tank smart ammo... the rest are gps aided nato mortars probably 81mm



i dont understand why the Russian troops are doing so poorly.. i thought they were supposed to be one of the top millitaries in the world? are they being exposed as a paper tiger..? have they been saving their "real" troops for some other conflict, and instead sending a bunch of noobs / convicts to fight instead..? obviously it is great Ukraine is hanging on, and also flourishing when most did not expect it.. does anyone know the reason(s)..?


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## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608274323109974021
> Ukraines HIMARS about to get more advanced


What's the difference between the two?



hadi1990 said:


> this is war of nato vs russia on ukraine soil, the russians are at most the early 1990s nato satandard of weaponry and tactics on ground, while the ukrainians are the 2023 nato standard even ahead of nato members in mastering this standard.
> but this is Russia they lost 20 millions and destroyed hitler at the end...
> what has caused russians this level of loses are the men behind small drones , drones,and drones implementing smart new artillery rounds (gps, laser, proximity,optical) has really put russians on a doom course.... but the russians still can press the game over, they need to open their eyes they have the necessary devices.
> on another hand the best thing for planet earth all parties sit to negotiations...
> the first round that hit the bmp is an anti tank smart ammo... the rest are gps aided nato mortars probably 81mm


Soviets only won because the Germans had to split their forces in order to face the British/Americans/Canadians in the West. 

Also that war had true legitimacy in the eyes of the Soviets, whereas the Ukraine war doesn't have the support of every Russian civilian.


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## ZeGerman

kingQamaR said:


> i dont understand why the Russian troops are doing so poorly.. i thought they were supposed to be one of the top millitaries in the world? are they being exposed as a paper tiger..? have they been saving their "real" troops for some other conflict, and instead sending a bunch of noobs / convicts to fight instead..? obviously it is great Ukraine is hanging on, and also flourishing when most did not expect it.. does anyone know the reason(s)..?


No russia did also use their good troops. 








VDV: who are Russia’s elite airborne force? | The Week UK


The paratroopers have ‘fearsome reputation’ but have suffered losses during Ukraine conflict



www.theweek.co.uk













Elite Russian Intelligence Unit Suffers Major Losses in Ukraine – BBC - The Moscow Times


An elite, highly secretive Russian military intelligence unit may have lost up to three-quarters of its reconnaissance manpower in Ukraine, according to research published by the BBC’s Russian service Tuesday.




www.themoscowtimes.com













A Hundred Wrecked Tanks In A Hundred Hours: Ukraine Guts Russia’s Best Tank Army


The Ukrainian army’s counteroffensive around the city of Kharkiv in northeastern Ukraine starting on Sept. 6 destroyed half of the best tank division in the best tank army in the Russian armed forces.




www.forbes.com






Russia…seen as the fearsome bear. The near peer of Nato….Was shown to be far behind Nato tactics, tech, training. 
Russia had the brute power of numbers (tank/artilery/jets) but huge issues with command and control, doctrine, corruption. 

Now that their entire army is being run into the ground in ukraine…what will be left is a bigger north korea 🇰🇵.

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## Soldier35

Footage of a self-made military communications relay of the Ukrainian army. The installation was created by craftsmen, on the chassis of the Soviet Volga GAZ-24-10 converted into a pickup truck. There are no technical details of the communication repeater.






Rare footage of the work of the operators of the Russian Pantsir-S1 air defense missile system on Ukrainian GMLRS missiles fired from the HIMARS MLRS has appeared. The results of the attack, 4 out of 6 HIMARS missiles were shot down, the consumption of Pantsir missiles was 5 pieces. Good performance for air defense systems, especially considering that HIMARS missiles are difficult targets. Judging by the end of the video, part of the fragments from the HIMARS MLRS missiles hit the Pantsir air defense system.






The work of Russian pilots in Ukraine is shown quite often, but no one shows the life of pilots. Footage of the field camp of Russian pilots in Ukraine.






The Buk-M1 air defense system of the Ukrainian army came under attack from the Russian Lancet kamikaze drone. After the impact of the Lancet drone, the missiles of the Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile system exploded.






A batch of modernized T-90M "Proryv" tanks entered service with the Russian army. At the training ground, instructors train crews taking into account modern combat experience. One of the commanders spoke about these combat vehicles.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608398794168872960

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## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> Listen we are not living in Russia. I can assure you everyone is same in every corner its the media press that shows only negative side of the countries. To west and many asians Russians are evil to some they are good. We will never know the reality as we know the real west situation right now.



The reality in Russia is shit, and you don't even need to know people in Russia to know that (I do know Russian still living in Russia by the way)

Econmic activities has stopped more or less. and then young people either left or been drafted to fight in Ukraine, how do you think Russia would fare?



Beny Karachun said:


> What's the difference between the two?
> 
> 
> Soviets only won because the Germans had to split their forces in order to face the British/Americans/Canadians in the West.
> 
> Also that war had true legitimacy in the eyes of the Soviets, whereas the Ukraine war doesn't have the support of every Russian civilian.











HIMARS - High-Mobility Artillery Rocket System


HIMARS (high-mobility artillery rocket system) is the newest member of the multiple-launch rocket system (MLRS) family developed by Lockheed Martin.




www.army-technology.com





The difference between IFCS and UFCS, basically it gives them more mode of firing. It also mean the Ukrainian HIMARS can now use ATACMS missile.

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## sammuel

Viet said:


> It’s more. Russia conventional ammo stockpile is huge. The Russians say peace but since years they preparing for wars.
> During summer offensive Russia artillery fired 60k per day or 1.8 million shells per month. Now the stockpile is low however they still fire that 20k per day or 600k rounds per month.



They have fired years of Soviet accumulation. It will take them years to manufacture something like that again. No one can say exactly how much they have left , but we do know they fired an insane amount , and got their stockpiles exploding by surprise. 

I would not be surprised if they run out.

The Guns too can fire 2500 rounds before the barrel needs to be replaced , and at the rate they where firing that should also take a toll.

I noticed that in Kherson the Ukrainian where able to match Russian artillery and that in Bakhmut there are rumors that Wagners had issues with artillery shells , could be signs that their supply situation is getting worse.


~


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## Deino

hadi1990 said:


> this is war of nato vs russia on ukraine soil, the russians are at most the early 1990s nato satandard of weaponry and tactics on ground, while the ukrainians are the 2023 nato standard even ahead of nato members in mastering this standard.
> but this is Russia they lost 20 millions and destroyed hitler at the end...
> what has caused russians this level of loses are the men behind small drones , drones,and drones implementing smart new artillery rounds (gps, laser, proximity,optical) has really put russians on a doom course.... but the russians still can press the game over, they need to open their eyes they have the necessary devices.
> on another hand the best thing for planet earth all parties sit to negotiations...
> the first round that hit the bmp is an anti tank smart ammo... the rest are gps aided nato mortars probably 81mm




Again … even if this may be rated a proxi-war, it is *NOT* a war NATO against Russia, since so far no NATO country is actively involved with NATO tanks, aircraft, soldiers and so on. If it would be a NATO war, it would be already over (if still conventionally) or already WWIII if nuclear!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608439087719153664


Beny Karachun said:


> What's the difference between the two?
> 
> 
> Soviets only won because the Germans had to split their forces in order to face the British/Americans/Canadians in the West.
> 
> Also that war had true legitimacy in the eyes of the Soviets, whereas the Ukraine war doesn't have the support of every Russian civilian.



Faster and more efficient targeting

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## Ali_Baba

sammuel said:


> “In addition to the Soviet 122-mm and 152-mm calibers, 155-mm cannons appeared in the arsenal of the Ukrainian army. Despite this, something still manages to be found. If you look at the latest package of military assistance to Ukraine from the United States, among other things there are 45,000 152 mm artillery shells, 20,000 122 mm artillery shells, and 50,000 122 mm shells for Grad systems. According to a report by the US Department of Defense, more than 1 million artillery shells of various calibers were transferred to Ukraine by the end of November.” writes the author of the Spy Dossier channel.



This statement is interesting. Part of it could be former-Soviet countries have "respun" up their ammo factories and these are being made new - and ukraine has managed to get some of its ammo factories working again - but is the other part that Pakistan/POF is still suppling weapons ?


----------



## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Soviets only won because the Germans had to split their forces in order to face the British/Americans/Canadians in the West.
> 
> Also that war had true legitimacy in the eyes of the Soviets, whereas the Ukraine war doesn't have the support of every Russian civilian.


And also because Russia had unlimited financial and military help from US and UK who together produced 60% of the worlds steel in 1945. And while Germans were losing millions of troops fighting the Russians, British bombers would reduce German cities to rubble by day and Americans would continue the bombing by night committing genocide against German civilians and destroying their industry piece by piece. 

And even during all this, the Volkswagen factory never stopped producing, not even for a day. 

Had US and UK not intervened and started WW2, russia would be totally and utterly wiped out. it would just be rumour. A historical question mark. No more russia, and probably no holocaust as the German victory would have been swift and painless for Germany. 

So the Russian red army is just the army that paid in blood to save the Anglo empire from getting its hands dirty.

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## 925boy

vi-va said:


> I said Russia lost the war in mid-July, ppl laughed at me.
> View attachment 908248


how can a country/Russia, lose a war that's still active? if you meant to say something else then please word your phrase better.


----------



## kingQamaR

sammuel said:


> They have fired years of Soviet accumulation. It will take them years to manufacture something like that again. No one can say exactly how much they have left , but we do know they fired an insane amount , and got their stockpiles exploding by surprise.
> 
> I would not be surprised if they run out.
> 
> The Guns too can fire 2500 rounds before the barrel needs to be replaced , and at the rate they where firing that should also take a toll.
> 
> I noticed that in Kherson the Ukrainian where able to match Russian artillery and that in Bakhmut there are rumors that Wagners had issues with artillery shells , could be signs that their supply situation is getting worse.
> 
> 
> ~



Another $45bn in weapons already being delivered to Ukraine. Patriots and Himars while Putin crawls to Iran and North Korea for their junk. Only one way this conflict is going to end - and it's not good for Moscow

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> i dont understand why the Russian troops are doing so poorly.. i thought they were supposed to be one of the top millitaries in the world?


So how many soldiers did Ukraine lose in Bakhmut? please let the facts speak for themselves...Ukraine lost so many good soldiers, it wont be able to hold the whole frontline..Ukraine has been losing small territories daily for the last few weeks now..why?


kingQamaR said:


> are they being exposed as a paper tiger..?


NATO is the paper military tiger that hasnt won a war in the past 2 decades despite having everythign it needs to win wars- lost in backwards Afghanistan recently..Russia's war is still ongoing..wait for final results.


kingQamaR said:


> have they been saving their "real" troops for some other conflict,


Yes, for NATO- saving Su-35s, Tu-160s, and Iskanders, and ICBMs , etc too...Russia is playing the long game..meanwhile NATo is using Ukraine for quick fries..expendable...


kingQamaR said:


> and instead sending a bunch of noobs / convicts to fight instead..?


what does it matter? it actually proves Ukraine's military is in horrible shape if it cant even defeat a bunch of excons and noobs on the battlefield...but Ukraine is deploying ALOT of noobs to the battlefield too these days..lost so much manpower.


kingQamaR said:


> obviously it is great Ukraine is hanging on, and also flourishing when most did not expect it.. does anyone know the reason(s)..?


how is Ukraine flourishing when it has NO power, low ammunition, rail doesnt work, internet is bad, babushkas have to fight in pick up trucks for the Ukranian army? even the mayor of Kyiv asked residents to leave the city..whhhy would he say this??

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608395258634682371

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608403062745350144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608247728726753281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608486448352878593

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608265902612697088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608274493927231490

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## 925boy

Deino said:


> Again … even if this may be rated a proxi-war, it is *NOT* a war NATO against Russia,


this is already known.


Deino said:


> since so far no NATO country is actively involved with NATO tanks, aircraft, soldiers and so on.


then how did over 1200 active members of Poland's army die on the frontline in Ukraine already? And US army and British army has both admitted to having some troops in Ukraine presently...so you are hiding behind semantics- Russia caught NATO trying to integrate Ukraine into NATO, on Russia's border, so NATO IS on the hook for the war, because it keeps it going- saying its a proxy war vs a direct war changes nothing important about this conflict. NATO will meet its waterloo in Ukraine..it wont be able to fight another war after Ukraine..cuz Russia will make sure that if its not gonna win, NATO leaves Ukraine broken too, how does Biden get out of this? Ukraine doesnt have infinite # of soldiers.


Deino said:


> If it would be a NATO war, it would be already over (if still conventionally) or already WWIII if nuclear!


LMAO- all theory bullshit- why cant NATO enter directly to finish "broken down" Russia? action speaks louder than words- and NATO cowards fear direct conflict with even a Russia at war and with losses...tells me how weak NATO is--..cant even boot up and stage troops around Iran for military pressure due to not getting back into the nuclear deal..NATO only has enemies to fight that will ensure NATO troops also die after starting the aggression....that's why NATO is hesitant- its troops will die in larger numbers than ever, and it wont be able to fight China -stupid NATO alreaddy lost to China without a bullet actually fired..lmaooo.

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## Viet

925boy said:


> So how many soldiers did Ukraine lose in Bakhmut? please let the facts speak for themselves...Ukraine lost so many good soldiers, it wont be able to hold the whole frontline..Ukraine has been losing small territories daily for the last few weeks now..why?
> 
> NATO is the paper military tiger that hasnt won a war in the past 2 decades despite having everythign it needs to win wars- lost in backwards Afghanistan recently..Russia's war is still ongoing..wait for final results.
> 
> Yes, for NATO- saving Su-35s, Tu-160s, and Iskanders, and ICBMs , etc too...Russia is playing the long game..meanwhile NATo is using Ukraine for quick fries..expendable...
> 
> what does it matter? it actually proves Ukraine's military is in horrible shape if it cant even defeat a bunch of excons and noobs on the battlefield...but Ukraine is deploying ALOT of noobs to the battlefield too these days..lost so much manpower.
> 
> how is Ukraine flourishing when it has NO power, low ammunition, rail doesnt work, internet is bad, babushkas have to fight in pick up trucks for the Ukranian army? even the mayor of Kyiv asked residents to leave the city..whhhy would he say this??


If anything then Nato light.

NATO combined military spending is $1.2 trillion. If adding Japan, SK, Australia, Singapore and many others then we see north of $2 trillion. In contrast Putin’s annual military budget is kindergarten. If he means serious with fighting against NATO then he must stop spending from healthcare to pension, stopping on everything accept military. Even that that’s still too little.

Next year will be funny. How will he finance the war with less money, economy crashing? Maybe he will lease out his palace to China.

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## 925boy

Viet said:


> If anything then Nato light.
> NATO combined military spending is $1.2 trillion.


so what has NATO achieved for itself recently after spending all that insane amounts of debt, sorry money it doesnt actually have?? because NATO is unable to win modern wars...and is now low on ammunition...and money...and it hasnt even fought China yet...NATO gotta pay- bankrupt weak minded runts!


Viet said:


> If adding Japan, SK, Australia, Singapore and many others then we see north of $2 trillion.


all McNamara fallacy- its all power...on paper..not in reality...SOuth Korea that couldnt even find and destroy 5 crude North Korean drones recently?? lmao---their fake fighter jet actually crashed- at least Iran didnt fly its "fake jet" in war situation.


Viet said:


> In contrast Putin’s annual military budget is kindergarten.


so why cant NATO crush Russia directly then if it has such an overwhelming advantage? this is the same overwhelming advantage NATO had against Afghanistani and Iraqi insurgents....and then lost to them...from attrition, dedication, motivation and persistence.. US and NATO had to run out of those countries, now they're facing a much more potent adversary...right after leaving Afghanistan foolishly and frustratedly just some months ago?


Viet said:


> If he means serious with fighting against NATO then he must stop spending from healthcare to pension, stopping on everything accept military.


Russians decide that, not you, fyi.


Viet said:


> Even that that’s still too little.


lol.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608533166465187840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608526809909305346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608513263997706242


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## MeFishToo

Viet said:


> If anything then Nato light.
> 
> NATO combined military spending is $1.2 trillion. If adding Japan, SK, Australia, Singapore and many others then we see north of $2 trillion. In contrast Putin’s annual military budget is kindergarten. If he means serious with fighting against NATO then he must stop spending from healthcare to pension, stopping on everything accept military. Even that that’s still too little.
> 
> Next year will be funny. How will he finance the war with less money, economy crashing? Maybe he will lease out his palace to China.


Let him back up his claims before adressing them. He is constantly trying to derail from reality on the ground.

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## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> And also because Russia had unlimited financial and military help from US and UK who together produced 60% of the worlds steel in 1945. And while Germans were losing millions of troops fighting the Russians, British bombers would reduce German cities to rubble by day and Americans would continue the bombing by night committing genocide against German civilians and destroying their industry piece by piece.
> 
> And even during all this, the Volkswagen factory never stopped producing, not even for a day.
> 
> Had US and UK not intervened and started WW2, russia would be totally and utterly wiped out. it would just be rumour. A historical question mark. No more russia, and probably no holocaust as the German victory would have been swift and painless for Germany.
> 
> So the Russian red army is just the army that paid in blood to save the Anglo empire from getting its hands dirty.


It was Russia (Soviet Union) and Germany that started WWII by the invasion of Poland.
Now Russia is the only one to blame for this war.

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## ZeGerman

Keep seeing russian propaganda quote Douglas McGregor. Supposedly “neutral take” on the conflict.

Its a russian propagandist who has been wrong again and again since februari.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505003978299478019

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## The SC

A lot of Russian attacks..very important updates on the front..


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608562430409601027
US may be sending Bradley’s now. That’d be a huge increase in their armored capability

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## LeGenD

925boy said:


> so what has NATO achieved for itself recently after spending all that insane amounts of debt, sorry money it doesnt actually have?? because NATO is unable to win modern wars...and is now low on ammunition...and money...and it hasnt even fought China yet...NATO gotta pay- bankrupt weak minded runts!
> 
> all McNamara fallacy- its all power...on paper..not in reality...SOuth Korea that couldnt even find and destroy 5 crude North Korean drones recently?? lmao---their fake fighter jet actually crashed- at least Iran didnt fly its "fake jet" in war situation.
> 
> so why cant NATO crush Russia directly then if it has such an overwhelming advantage? this is the same overwhelming advantage NATO had against Afghanistani and Iraqi insurgents....and then lost to them...from attrition, dedication, motivation and persistence.. US and NATO had to run out of those countries, now they're facing a much more potent adversary...right after leaving Afghanistan foolishly and frustratedly just some months ago?
> 
> Russians decide that, not you, fyi.
> 
> lol.



Look! I welcome and respect Freedom of Expression in person. I really want to extend this benefit to all members on PDF but some target this forum with politically motivated propaganda in an effort to distort facts and mislead genuine readers and some never get tired of low IQ contributions in their own right. Your continuous outpouring of low IQ posts containing a mishmash of debunked points are becoming a problem and might be stopped in this thread if you fail to learn anything from repeated attempts to reason with you.

1. NATO dismantled Saddam regime in Iraq and rebooted Iraqi political system in a war that was fought in the (2003 - 2011) period. What do you think this achievement implies?



https://www.jstor.org/stable/20033648



Iraqi insurgency was also put down in battles that were fought in several cities and most notably in Fallujah and Sadr City during the (2004 - 2008) period.









Stealing the Enemy's Urban Advantage: The Battle of Sadr City - Modern War Institute


From March 23 to May 12, 2008, US Army and Iraqi security forces engaged in an intense urban battle in and around Baghdad’s Shiite neighborhood of Sadr City. The battle […]




mwi.usma.edu













The 2008 Battle of Sadr City: Reimagining Urban Combat


Coalition forces' defeat of an uprising in Sadr City helped consolidate the Government of Iraq's authority, contributing significantly to the attainment of contemporary U.S. operational objectives in Iraq.




www.rand.org





Iraq was stabilized in the (2008 - 2011) period and NATO pulled out from Iraq in 2011 because it is not cheap to keep a large military force in a foreign country for unnecessary reasons. NATO diverted its attention towards Libya instead.

2. NATO dismantled Qaddafi regime in Libya in a war that was fought in 2011. What do you think this achievement implies?









Toppling Qaddafi: Libya and the Limits of Liberal Intervention


Toppling Qaddafi is a carefully researched, highly readable look at the role of the United States and NATO in Libya's war of liberation and its lessons for future military interventions. This book recounts the story of how the United States and its European allies went to war against Muammar...




www.rand.org





ISIL emerged across Iraq and Syria in 2013 due to absolute lack of capability of both countries to provide security to their people. This development prompted NATO to return to Iraq in 2014 and launch a military operation against ISIL across Iraq and Syria.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/full-text-of-president-obamas-speech-outlining-strategy-to-defeat-islamic-state/2014/09/10/af69dec8-3943-11e4-9c9f-ebb47272e40e_story.html



3. NATO dismantled ISIL in a war that was fought across Iraq and Syria in the (2014 - 2020) period. What do you think this achievement implies?



The Conflict with ISIS | U.S. Army Center of Military History











Operation Inherent Resolve


This report, which outlines four battles within Operation Inherent Resolve (OIR) and reviews U.S. ground force contributions to those battles, is intended to address gaps both in analysis and in the common understanding of OIR.




www.rand.org





Iran also played its part in countering ISIL in its own ways which is appreciated.









While U.S.-Led Forces Dropped Bombs, Iran Waged Its Own Covert Campaign Against the Islamic State


In many ways, the Iranian intelligence campaign against ISIS mirrored the U.S. strategy for dealing with Iraq.




theintercept.com





Iraq is stabilized once again and WE hope that this stability will last.

NATO dismantled Al-Qaeda Network across Afghanistan and Pakistan in the (2001 - 2019) period with support of Pakistan - the perpetrators of 9/11 were chased and eliminated without remorse with NATO resorting to battlefield excesses in some of these pursuits. Afghan Taliban were allowed to return to power in view of Pakistan's strategic concerns and the fact that they agreed to prevent Al-Qaeda types from plotting and launching attacks on NATO assets in Doha Accords that were signed in 2020. This was a reasonable compromise for all stakeholders involved in the war. It is better to conclude a war when a political solution comes to the table.

To cap the above, NATO has achieved its LIMITED military and/or political objectives in each FRONT that was opened since 2001 under the garb of War On Terror. This isn't to say that Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Pakistan find themselves in ideal conditions. Afghanistan has landed in stone age, Libya is broke, and Pakistan is also broke which is a shame. Iraq is the only country that is showing signs of recovery but it needs more time to do better (hopefully). But these localized realities do not have any bearing on NATO battlefield exploits and warfighting capacity other then that they learned something from these experiences.

Speaking of North Korea and South Korea, WE do not know much about what had transpired there recently but a South Korean KA-1 propeller-driven light attack aircraft crashed due to a technical fault but this event does not reflect on South Korean warfighting capacity on the whole because there is ample footage of its military drills that are impressive otherwise.

Now, if you can stay on topic and discuss the Ukraine - Russian war effort in a sensible manner that by all means be my guest. Otherwise, stay out.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608303510117810177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608303513200742400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608303516166066177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608303517990625280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608303519756337152

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## Dalit

If we look at this war from our perspective, this war needs to continue for a longer period. The Western powers are now preoccupied with the war in Ukraine. Even the China bashing has decreased dramatically. Every day Russia is upping the ante with missiles strikes.

On certain Western defence forums I had been reading for years that war with Russia was out of the question. The war in Ukraine is very troubling for the West from so many angles. How will Europe respond to Russian advances in Ukraine? It puts extreme pressure on Europe.

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Let him back up his claims before adressing them. He is constantly trying to derail from reality on the ground.





Viet said:


> If anything then Nato light.
> 
> NATO combined military spending is $1.2 trillion. If adding Japan, SK, Australia, Singapore and many others then we see north of $2 trillion. In contrast Putin’s annual military budget is kindergarten. If he means serious with fighting against NATO then he must stop spending from healthcare to pension, stopping on everything accept military. Even that that’s still too little.
> 
> Next year will be funny. How will he finance the war with less money, economy crashing? Maybe he will lease out his palace to China.


He is the same guys back in October when I say Kherson is untenable and he laugh at my post and said there are no way Russia will lose Kherson and "Capture this and see who will have their last laugh" which I did (so does most people here on PDF) and apparently, I had the last laugh, so did many others.

And then before that he is the same dude who use a reference who stated specifically NATO had only send 18 billion military aid to Ukraine out of 68 billions of total aid and then to counter my point of NATO help is small and insignificant. 

I wouldn't even bother answering his post anymore, just haha it and let nature take its course. I mean, if Russian is doing very good at the moment, there are no reason for Russian fanboy to be pissed. And he is REALLY pissed. That show you something.

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## kingQamaR

Dalit said:


> If we look at this war from our perspective, this war needs to continue for a longer period. The Western powers are now preoccupied with the war in Ukraine. Even the China bashing has decreased dramatically. Every day Russia is upping the ante with missiles strikes.
> 
> On certain Western defence forums I had been reading for years that war with Russia was out of the question. The war in Ukraine is very troubling for the West from so many angles. How will Europe respond to Russian advances in Ukraine? It puts extreme pressure on Europe.




Russia has shown its true self to the world here. The biggest question now is; was Russia ever really a true superpower? Russian ineptitude and weakness is staggering, here for the whole world to see. The only thing they have is to threaten the world with their nukes, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they also turned out to be much less than the sum of their parts.

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## Dalit

kingQamaR said:


> Russia has shown its true self to the world here. The biggest question now is; was Russia ever really a true superpower? Russian ineptitude and weakness is staggering, here for the whole world to see. The only thing they have is to threaten the world with their nukes, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they also turned out to be much less than the sum of their parts.



Frankly, I don't give a hoot. Whatever Russia did was for it's own benefit. Russia couldn't afford a Western lackey i.e. Ukraine across the border. We can shed tears on the casualties etc. Unfortunately, every war has casualties.

Now, when I look at the war from our perspective I applaud it. The Western powers are overwhelmed by the Ukraine war. That is a good thing. You know exactly what Western powers do when they aren't busy. Meddle in the affairs of other sovereign nations.

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## kingQamaR

Dalit said:


> Frankly, I don't give a hoot. Whatever Russia did was for it's own benefit. Russia couldn't afford a Western lackey i.e. Ukraine across the border. We can shed tears on the casualties etc. Unfortunately, every war has casualties.
> 
> Now, when I look at the war from our perspective I applaud it. The Western powers are overwhelmed by the Ukraine war. That is a good thing. You know exactly what Western powers do when they aren't busy. Meddle in the affairs of other sovereign nations.



Russia (then USSR) played a decisive role in Indo-Pak War in 1971. Not only they thwarted an attempt by both English and US Navy but also they vetoed the resolution in the UN Security Council which called for a ceasefire between the two nations at war.

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608562430409601027
> US may be sending Bradley’s now. That’d be a huge increase in their armored capability


There are a lot of stuff US don't need or use they can send to Ukraine to deal with Russia, all those comes with minimal training required. 

Bradley (US have around 250 stored somewhere not used and not in strategic reserve)
M109A6 (US have at least 450 stored and not used)
M60 Patton (US have 1000+ serviceable M60 in storage, waiting to be converted to target (Which mean it's going to be destroyed anyway) and already retired.)
M270 (US have around 200 M270 Marine retired when they fielded HIMARS.)
M113 (US have 4000+ M113 of all variants in storage, retired and waiting to be scraped)
M1128 Stryker MGS (US have retired the entire M1128 MGS just this year, there are 140 of those)

If US send all these to Ukriane, that is enough for the Ukrainian to mount an offensive. And that's just retired stuff, not stuff that we still use and can be spared, and that just US. I don't understand why US and EU are holding on to those old stock to begin with. The rationale is that you may need that for a conventional war with a near peer enemy, which is Russia, which is basically what these article being store in reserve is for, for them to fight Russia, then why not send them to Ukraine so they can do what they were stored to do??

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## Stranagor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608533166465187840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608526809909305346
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608513263997706242



If Russia had basic freedoms and a free press, they would have serious civil backlash at home. 

But, it usually chooses to implode from inside under its own weight - like the aftermath of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Nuclear weapons alone do not keep a country stable or functional.



ZeGerman said:


> Keep seeing russian propaganda quote Douglas McGregor. Supposedly “neutral take” on the conflict.
> 
> Its a russian propagandist who has been wrong again and again since februari.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505003978299478019



Very much like in the case of another large country, the Russian state propaganda machine attempts to weaponize Western freedom of expression against the West/Ukraine. This is while it does not allow an iota of similar freedoms to its own people. 

Otherwise, I would like to see the Russian antiwar opinion to be able express itself without any fear on NBC or the Sky News.

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## vi-va

925boy said:


> how can a country/Russia, lose a war that's still active? if you meant to say something else then please word your phrase better.



U.S. lost the Vietnam War in 1970, or even earlier, like 1967.
U.S. lost the Afghanistan War in 2003 when the Bush regime invaded Iraq.
U.S. lost the Iraq War in 2008, or even earlier, like 2005.

Political prediction can be made long before the war really ends. Russia can retreat, negotiate now. Otherwise, Russia will lose even more, but Putin just hasn't made up his mind.


The energy weapon of Russia failed.
The nuclear deterrence doesn't work in Ukraine, Russia can't drop nukes on NATO countries, nor can Russia nuke Ukraine.
The wheat weapon of Russia doesn't work.
Over 90 percent of countries in this world dare not to support Russia.
Central Asia countries don't support Ukraine Invasion.
The support from friendly countries is limited, they have their own concerns as well, such as sanctions.
India blackmail Russia for huge oil discount.
China can only provide economy support, but Russia need military support.
Most Russians don't support this war right now, they will against the war even more if Putin call for more mobilization.

The list can go on and on.

*Most importantly, Ukrainians had beaten Russians really badly on battlefield. The Russians has lost momentum and strong fighting will, logistic is terrible. Tactic is kind of like WW1 and WW2, at most 1970s, trench, tanks, cannon, meat grinder, what else? 

The Europeans would rather support Ukraine than themselves fight against Russia directly. Supporting Ukraine is the cheapest for Europeans relatively right now.

Those are facts.*

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## khansaheeb

Ukraine was sea-change for openness – GCHQ head


Sir Jeremy Fleming interviews head of US intelligence agency as guest editor of Radio 4's Today programme.



www.bbc.com





Ukraine was sea-change for openness – GCHQ head​

Published
12 hours ago

Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war





IMAGE SOURCE,EPA
Image caption,
Intelligence has been at the forefront of the Ukraine war, says Sir Jeremy
By Gordon Corera & Sam Hancock
Security correspondent, BBC News

*The Ukraine conflict marked a sea-change for the release of intelligence, the head of the spy agency GCHQ Sir Jeremy Fleming has said.*
Washington and London took the unusual step of publicising their knowledge of Russia's plans ahead of its invasion.
The head of US intelligence, Avril Haines, said lessons had been learned including the limits of such moves to publicise intelligence.
Sir Jeremy interviewed her for Radio 4's Today programme.
The extraordinary exchange between the intelligence bosses - which they acknowledged would normally happen at a "top secret" level - saw them discuss how important it was for people to understand their jobs against the backdrop of the war in Ukraine.
As a 30-year veteran of the secret world, Sir Jeremy said Ukraine had seen a new type of conflict in which intelligence was at the forefront.

Ms Haines agreed, saying the war between Ukraine and Russia had made it clear that countries "cannot manage any threat [from] around the world without partners or allies".
Western allies, including the UK and US, have provided Ukraine with military aid since it was invaded in February.
As director of national intelligence, Ms Haines co-ordinates all America's spy agencies - and she played a pivotal role in pushing for sensitive intelligence to be declassified and published in the run-up to Russia's February invasion.
This unusual step was designed to deter Russia and counter its claims it was acting defensively.
"Keeping the population up-to-date on what we're seeing and involving them in the conversation in a more significant way is crucial," Ms Haines told Sir Jeremy, who was guest-editing the Today programme.
However, she added there were limitations. In Russia, efforts to share intelligence had "basically no impact" because of the control the Kremlin exerted over information flows inside the country.

This extended to other countries who began believing the false claims Russia was peddling about the West's involvement in the war, Ms Haines said.



IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
US intelligence chief Avril Haines says open intelligence is important in this age of easily-spread misinformation
"One of their main narratives is that the United States is provoking this conflict, and that Nato and Ukraine are setting the conditions and threatening Russia and that sort of forced them into this position," she told Sir Jeremy.
"Authoritarian states have this kind of asymmetric advantage where they're effectively controlling the information to their populations."
Sir Jeremy said he supported the sea-change of declassifying certain intelligence, and using it to "pre-bunk" a narrative, but much of the world had not completely bought into the argument.
The GCHQ head, who was appointed by then foreign secretary Boris Johnson in 2017, said conversations about open intelligence were important - and they have to include non-government and intelligence voices.
For this reason, he added, the private sector had played an important part in the conflict - whether it was satellite imagery from private providers, which could confirm the intelligence claims about troop build-ups, or the work of companies like Microsoft in providing cyber-defence for Ukraine.

"There are different alliances, which enable us to show and demonstrate that we are more trusted," Sir Jeremy said, before wishing Ms Haines a "happy and, I hope, peaceful 2023".
In another interview for the programme, Sir Jeremy rejected the idea that GCHQ had been dragged into the open by Edward Snowden's revelations, claiming the former US intelligence employee publishing details of secret programmes had cost the UK "blood and money".
Asked if his successor could be the first woman to lead GCHQ, Sir Jeremy said "let's hope so" noting the organisation had not been led by either a woman or someone from an ethnic minority background and that it was time to "show a difference at the top" of intelligence agencies.


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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> Russia (then USSR) played a decisive role in Indo-Pak War in 1971. Not only they thwarted an attempt by both English and US Navy but also they vetoed the resolution in the UN Security Council which called for a ceasefire between the two nations at war.



They became better allies for India than the cucks US/UK for Pakistan.

But I, for one, agree with @Dalit that this conflict works to our benefit. Suppose we can add more fuel to the fire, the less pressure on the Islamic World overall. Sadly, casualties happened, but even Ukraine jumped on the Coalition of the Willing bandwagon and went to Iraq, so no love was lost here. There is a reason why 50 some nations are silent between Pakistan and Morocco; they had the chance to pull up their Huggies diapers.

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## khansaheeb

December 29, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news


Explosions rattled villages and cities across Ukraine on Thursday in what Kyiv has called one of Moscow's largest missile barrages since the war began.




www.cnn.com





2 hr 50 min ago
Ukrainians resolute to ring in new year despite power outages from latest Russian attacks​From CNN's Olga Voitovych, Eliza Mackintosh, Daria Markina-Tarasova and Dima Olenchenko





People charge their mobile phones at the mobile police station during a blackout in Kyiv, on December 22. (Sergei Chuzavkov/SOPA Images/LightRocket/Getty Images)

The Russian strikes that killed three people on Thursday were aimed at Ukraine's electrical infrastructure, knocking out power in several regions and sending engineering crews racing to restore services as the New Year’s holiday approaches this weekend.
Authorities have been cautioning for days that Russia was preparing to launch an all-out assault on the power grid to close out 2022, plummeting the country into darkness as Ukrainians attempt to ring in the New Year and celebrate the Orthodox Christmas holiday on Jan. 7.


> “Russian terrorists have been saving one of the most massive missile attacks since the beginning of the full-scale invasion for the last days of the year,” Ukraine’s Defense Ministry said in a statement on Twitter Thursday. “They dream that Ukrainians will celebrate the New Year in darkness and cold. But they cannot defeat the Ukrainian people.”


Ukraine’s Energy Minister Herman Halushchenko said that Lviv, Kyiv and Odesa were particularly hard-hit, and the cities are experiencing emergency power outages – which is when the electricity is protectively turned off to diminish damage from the grid shorting out.
Forty percent of Kyiv residents were without power as of mid-morning local time, according to Mayor Vitali Klitschko, while in western Ukraine, Lviv Mayor Andrii Sadovyi said 90% of the city was without power.
Residents in Kyiv told CNN that they are planning to celebrate the new year despite possible power outages or blackouts.
"We have already become perfectly oriented on how to survive in such conditions. Anyway, we will celebrate the New Year and hope for the best,” Kyiv resident Halyna Hladka said.
*Read more **here**.*


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## Stranagor

Dalit said:


> Now, when I look at the war from our perspective I applaud it. The Western powers are overwhelmed by the Ukraine war. That is a good thing. You know exactly what Western powers do when they aren't busy. Meddle in the affairs of other sovereign nations.



For anything, the West has been energized by this war. 

You really believe a war aid not amounting to 100 billion USD from the developed West will cause headache? 

China probably spent three times more on useless lackdowns, mass testing and quarantines in the past one year or so. 

In fact, Western political alliance has become robust, overcoming the cracks created by the second Gulf War and the Trump administration. 

There are new frameworks with regional support, such as Free and Open Indo-Pacific, the QUAD, AUKUS, Build Back Better Initiative, etc. 

Japan and South Korea are more firmly in the Western bloc. The Philippines has leaned closer to the US, unlike Duterte era. It opened up a US military naval base after 30 years. Vietnam has reduced its reliance on Russian weapons from 100pct to 60pct. 

Russia has lost the public support even in friendly countries, such as China, if you go by Weibo posts. 

Europe is decoupling from the Russian energy. 

As for other developing countries benefitting from it. How so. The inflationary pressure from foodstuff to energy can be as much blamed on the Russian invasion as on the pandemic. 

And these bottlenecks in global trade and inflation do hit poor and developing countries the most.

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> There are a lot of stuff US don't need or use they can send to Ukraine to deal with Russia, all those comes with minimal training required.
> 
> Bradley (US have around 250 stored somewhere not used and not in strategic reserve)
> M109A6 (US have at least 450 stored and not used)
> M60 Patton (US have 1000+ serviceable M60 in storage, waiting to be converted to target (Which mean it's going to be destroyed anyway) and already retired.)
> M270 (US have around 200 M270 Marine retired when they fielded HIMARS.)
> M113 (US have 4000+ M113 of all variants in storage, retired and waiting to be scraped)
> M1128 Stryker MGS (US have retired the entire M1128 MGS just this year, there are 140 of those)
> 
> If US send all these to Ukriane, that is enough for the Ukrainian to mount an offensive. And that's just retired stuff, not stuff that we still use and can be spared, and that just US. I don't understand why US and EU are holding on to those old stock to begin with. The rationale is that you may need that for a conventional war with a near peer enemy, which is Russia, which is basically what these article being store in reserve is for, for them to fight Russia, then why not send them to Ukraine so they can do what they were stored to do??


To make the damn war last longer. U.S. worried too much support would give Putin the excuse to retreat too early.

The U.S. benefit from the war a lot, economically, politically, militarily, and most importantly, geopolitically. The longer the war last, the better for U.S. The longer the war last, more likely Putin administration explode internally.

So, here we come, another 10 years Afghanistan War in East Europe.

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## Stranagor

khansaheeb said:


> "Authoritarian states have this kind of asymmetric advantage where they're effectively controlling the information to their populations."



Exactly so. Also, those states are adept at abusing freedoms in the target populations, especially the West (hope this won't become an excuse to limit those freedoms. The Cold War has shown that openness and freedom of expression eventually win).

Populations in places such as Russia, Iran, North Korea, etc. are mobilized but immobile. In a sense, they are guided by the state propaganda and kept mobile (think about large scale parades in which people are trained to move in perfect unison as we see in North Korea or China) but cannot step outside the discourse boundaries set up by their respective regimes, hence immobile.

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## vi-va

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It was Russia (Soviet Union) and Germany that started WWII by the invasion of Poland.
> Now Russia is the only one to blame for this war.


Not true. That's not history, just propaganda. Selective facts.

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## Stranagor

vi-va said:


> To make the damn war last longer. U.S. worried too much support would give Putin the excuse to retreat too early.
> 
> The U.S. benefit from the war a lot, economically, politically, militarily, and most importantly, geopolitically. The longer the war last, the better for U.S. The longer the war last, more likely Putin administration explode internally.
> 
> So, here we come, another 10 years Afghanistan War in East Europe.



The US could not have found a better alternative to reinvigorate the Atlantic and Pacific alliances. And, obviously, they do not want to squander this opportunity too fast.

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## vi-va

Stranagor said:


> The US could not have found a better alternative to reinvigorate the Atlantic and Pacific alliances. And, obviously, they do not want to squander this opportunity too fast.


Europeans, especially East Europeans, rely on U.S. protections more than anytime since the end of the Cold War. 

Germany and France provided very limited support to Ukraine comparably, while U.S. is the major sponsor of Ukraine. U.S. won the heart and soul of East Europeans, while NATO is stronger like never before.

Germany and France hesitated in the first couple of month, they have their own concerns. They lost some influence over East Europeans countries. Now they had made up their mind, cut economy ties with Russia, and support Ukraine more and more, otherwise they will lose control over EU.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608650114377330689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608657480221065221

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608681867062149121

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## jhungary

vi-va said:


> To make the damn war last longer. U.S. worried too much support would give Putin the excuse to retreat too early.
> 
> The U.S. benefit from the war a lot, economically, politically, militarily, and most importantly, geopolitically. The longer the war last, the better for U.S. The longer the war last, more likely Putin administration explode internally.
> 
> So, here we come, another 10 years Afghanistan War in East Europe.


Well, considering the political means

The prime objective for US and NATO had already served, that is to draw both Nordic and Eastern Europe closer to US and NATO, I mean, that won't change, they would see Russia as a threat to their national security now pretty much the same they will see if this war drag on for another 4 or 5 years, you don't need that 4 or 5 years more horror to show Russia is an aggressor and the existence would threaten their own national security, that had already done, and countries are going to pull to US for support. It's not like if the war ends now then Eastern European or Nordic country would just forget what had happened since February and go back to being neutral......

Which mean for the US and NATO, the quicker this war is done, there are more benefits to them, because 1.) they don't need to support Ukraine, start rebuilding and start getting contract for money, you can't do that until the war is over. Think about fulfilling all those arms and reconstruction contract to rebuild Ukraine and rearm Europe? And as long as the war continue, they are going to be in the red. And the only way this is going to be over is for Ukraine to roll back their territories either Pre-Feb 2022 or Pre-2014. I don't see a way they would just call it with achieving either of the goal. 2.) The internal pressure would subside, most likely if and when this war ends, both food and fuel price are going to go down dramatically one way or the other. You also don't need to deal with internal opposition 

On the other hand, US wanted Russia down, but not out, because if they keep the pressure and Russia imploded and dethrone Putin or what not, the threat would be gone, and US can't squeeze the EU anymore. You need Putin stay in power and become a sort of "Bogeymen" of sort. Who knows what is going to happen once Putin is gone.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608608855658999813

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608608886361305088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608572623608479744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608535530773389315

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607806075398496264


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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> They became better allies for India than the cucks US/UK for Pakistan.
> 
> But I, for one, agree with @Dalit that this conflict works to our benefit. Suppose we can add more fuel to the fire, the less pressure on the Islamic World overall. Sadly, casualties happened, but even Ukraine jumped on the Coalition of the Willing bandwagon and went to Iraq, so no love was lost here. There is a reason why 50 some nations are silent between Pakistan and Morocco; they had the chance to pull up their Huggies diapers.


There is just one problem I see on this for the Islamic World. 

Where are they going to turn to after this to balance the power of the region??

There are currently 3 powers that play into each other, the West (US+EU), Russia and China. The thing is, as this war drag on, what do you think Islamic World would see as an alternative to counter the asserted aggression by the West? Russia is thoroughly and utterly defeated in this, I mean, you don't really need to know anything military to know Russia is not doing well in this war. So how would people (not just Muslim) think Russia is a viable candidate to balance the West anymore?? So the remaining option is China, but then one issue tho, China seems to be abandoned Russia probably at their most needed time. I mean, the West, no matter what they did, they supported Ukraine even with the Pressure from Russia, China don't even send their drone to help the Russian or even artillery round or anything, by all account, China is hanging Russia out to dry, and they were supposedly blood brother (or all weather brother) like they proclaim and the longer this war go on, I mean if Russia, being that close (I mean geographically) to China and that powerful counterbalance to the west and still China still wouldn't jump in, why you think the Chinese would jump in and help the Islamic World in their time of needed??

Say on a hypothetical, if India really go to war or have some sort of border intrusion tomorrow, can Pakistan rely on China support when you guys have 11 months to see China stringing up Russia and withholding their support?

On the other hand, the longer this war continue, the more expensive the energy needs, the more the West and more likely China would want to seek alternative fuel and energy source, that would mean the single biggest weapon the Middle Eastern world had would lose its power, that being the controlling of fossil fuel. This war had opened people eyes not just on Russian aggression, but also the vulnerability of their energy security, EU was hit particularly hard, while diverting their energy need can nip the short-term issue for now, but the West are going to push for alternative energy abandoning Fossil Fuel probably quicker than all those woke nonsense combine. If you think of it this way, what kind of power Saudi or Qatar would yield if both the West and Chinese step away from fossil fuel??

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## Dalit

Ukrainian forces face "heavy losses" in Bakhmut and Soledar, presidential adviser says

Heavy Russian attacks on the eastern Ukrainian cities of Bakhmut and Soledar "smack of desperation, reminiscent of suicide bombers," according to a Ukrainian presidential adviser.

Oleksiy Arestovych was speaking during his nightly livestream on Feygin Live, a pro-Ukrainian channel.

As fighting continues in the area, Ukrainian forces are experiencing heavy troop losses, Arestovych said, adding "[the enemy] is losing more, of course, but we have heavy losses. It's a very serious fight."

Some context: Bakhmut has become perhaps the most contested and kinetic part of the 1,300 kilometer (800 mile) front line in Ukraine and the scene of some of the fiercest fighting of the war. The greater Donetsk region, where Bakhmut and Soledar are located, has been held by Russian-backed separatists since 2014 and is one of four Ukrainian regions that Moscow claims as Russian territory in violation of international law.









Live updates: Russia's war in Ukraine


Explosions rattled villages and cities across Ukraine on Thursday in what Kyiv has called one of Moscow's largest missile barrages since the war began in February. Follow here for live updates.




edition.cnn.com


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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> There is just one problem I see on this for the Islamic World.
> 
> Where are they going to turn to after this to balance the power of the region??
> 
> There are currently 3 powers that play into each other, the West (US+EU), Russia and China. The thing is, as this war drag on, what do you think Islamic World would see as an alternative to counter the asserted aggression by the West? Russia is thoroughly and utterly defeated in this, I mean, you don't really need to know anything military to know Russia is not doing well in this war. So how would people (not just Muslim) think Russia is a viable candidate to balance the West anymore?? So the remaining option is China, but then one issue tho, China seems to be abandoned Russia probably at their most needed time. I mean, the West, no matter what they did, they supported Ukraine even with the Pressure from Russia, China don't even send their drone to help the Russian or even artillery round or anything, by all account, China is hanging Russia out to dry, and they were supposedly blood brother (or all weather brother) like they proclaim and the longer this war go on, I mean if Russia, being that close (I mean geographically) to China and that powerful counterbalance to the west and still China still wouldn't jump in, why you think the Chinese would jump in and help the Islamic World in their time of needed??
> 
> Say on a hypothetical, if India really go to war or have some sort of border intrusion tomorrow, can Pakistan rely on China support when you guys have 11 months to see China stringing up Russia and withholding their support?
> 
> On the other hand, the longer this war continue, the more expensive the energy needs, the more the West and more likely China would want to seek alternative fuel and energy source, that would mean the single biggest weapon the Middle Eastern world had would lose its power, that being the controlling of fossil fuel. This war had opened people eyes not just on Russian aggression, but also the vulnerability of their energy security, EU was hit particularly hard, while diverting their energy need can nip the short-term issue for now, but the West are going to push for alternative energy abandoning Fossil Fuel probably quicker than all those woke nonsense combine. If you think of it this way, what kind of power Saudi or Qatar would yield if both the West and Chinese step away from fossil fuel??



We turn nowhere, and the Islamic World will pull down their Huggies at that point. Lol.

Realistically, the West has won. No race or religion can challenge it from this point onwards, and anyone who tries will be put down for good.

I agree with your sentiments regarding whether China will come, most likely not after seeing what took place in Ukraine. This conflict was a game changer and a realization of Western (European) superiority. The Asians screwed themselves completely by allying with another race from another region against one of their own in the Eastern Hemisphere. China f*ucked up by adding another dead horse. It will drag along with North Korea and Pakistan. Overall, this was an opportune time for the Chinese to keep the Europeans and US occupied in Europe to divert some attention away, and they failed in this calculus. 

A few years back, I mentioned on this forum that Asians are stupid, and this conflict surprisingly proved me correct.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> There is just one problem I see on this for the Islamic World.
> 
> Where are they going to turn to after this to balance the power of the region??
> 
> There are currently 3 powers that play into each other, the West (US+EU), Russia and China. The thing is, as this war drag on, what do you think Islamic World would see as an alternative to counter the asserted aggression by the West? Russia is thoroughly and utterly defeated in this, I mean, you don't really need to know anything military to know Russia is not doing well in this war. So how would people (not just Muslim) think Russia is a viable candidate to balance the West anymore?? So the remaining option is China, but then one issue tho, China seems to be abandoned Russia probably at their most needed time. I mean, the West, no matter what they did, they supported Ukraine even with the Pressure from Russia, China don't even send their drone to help the Russian or even artillery round or anything, by all account, China is hanging Russia out to dry, and they were supposedly blood brother (or all weather brother) like they proclaim and the longer this war go on, I mean if Russia, being that close (I mean geographically) to China and that powerful counterbalance to the west and still China still wouldn't jump in, why you think the Chinese would jump in and help the Islamic World in their time of needed??
> 
> Say on a hypothetical, if India really go to war or have some sort of border intrusion tomorrow, can Pakistan rely on China support when you guys have 11 months to see China stringing up Russia and withholding their support?
> 
> On the other hand, the longer this war continue, the more expensive the energy needs, the more the West and more likely China would want to seek alternative fuel and energy source, that would mean the single biggest weapon the Middle Eastern world had would lose its power, that being the controlling of fossil fuel. This war had opened people eyes not just on Russian aggression, but also the vulnerability of their energy security, EU was hit particularly hard, while diverting their energy need can nip the short-term issue for now, but the West are going to push for alternative energy abandoning Fossil Fuel probably quicker than all those woke nonsense combine. If you think of it this way, what kind of power Saudi or Qatar would yield if both the West and Chinese step away from fossil fuel??


Chinese hate the west as much as Putin does. But I don’t think China will ever deliver any weapons to Russia. That would run against Chinese strategic calculus. The war in Ukraine is far away in their minds, that doesn’t threaten China survival. The only exceptions are the wars in Korea and Vietnam. Chinese would resort to use every possible means including nuclear weapons if red lines are crossed in Vietnam and Korea. Other places are unimportant to them.

Even if, why Chinese support an imperialist and racist Russia? Why should they support separatism? Their own separatists in mainland China or Taiwan would feel more emboldened.
So their unlimited friendship to Russia is limited.


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## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> There are a lot of stuff US don't need or use they can send to Ukraine to deal with Russia, all those comes with minimal training required.
> 
> Bradley (US have around 250 stored somewhere not used and not in strategic reserve)
> M109A6 (US have at least 450 stored and not used)
> M60 Patton (US have 1000+ serviceable M60 in storage, waiting to be converted to target (Which mean it's going to be destroyed anyway) and already retired.)
> M270 (US have around 200 M270 Marine retired when they fielded HIMARS.)
> M113 (US have 4000+ M113 of all variants in storage, retired and waiting to be scraped)
> M1128 Stryker MGS (US have retired the entire M1128 MGS just this year, there are 140 of those)
> 
> If US send all these to Ukriane, that is enough for the Ukrainian to mount an offensive. And that's just retired stuff, not stuff that we still use and can be spared, and that just US. I don't understand why US and EU are holding on to those old stock to begin with. The rationale is that you may need that for a conventional war with a near peer enemy, which is Russia, which is basically what these article being store in reserve is for, for them to fight Russia, then why not send them to Ukraine so they can do what they were stored to do??


I also dont understand. 
Well from EU it is probably fear of constituents response on such a “hawk” move (warmonger!). Or perhaps on Russias reaction.

From USA i do not understand. 
This is THE chance to clip the wings of their former near peer adversary. 
1: Do they lack political will to do so, with republicans hijacked by trumpist faction? 
2: do they fear Russia becoming unhinged from a complete loss?
3: is a quick victory not something they actually want? Dragging out the conflicts will bleed Russia more…and EU for that matter..while increasing reliance EU on USA. 
4: goes against their ridiculous “be ready to fight 2 near peer wars at the same time” restrictions? 

Now (winter) is the perfect time to step up and pour artillery and armor into Ukraine..with the time to train them for its use as well. Pump up ammo production as well. 
West is still only using single digit of their defense budget as help. Extremely frustrating as so much of this storage was initially intended for the russians anyway.


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## SIPRA

Dalit said:


> ..... Arestovych said, adding "[the enemy] is *losing more*, of course, ....


It seems that these Ukrainians are getting training in propaganda from India. This is their standard technique.

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## Beny Karachun

vi-va said:


> Not true. That's not history, just propaganda. Selective facts.


It is, in 1939 Germany and USSR attacked Poland from both sides

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## ZeGerman

SIPRA said:


> It seems that these Ukrainians are getting training in propaganda from India. This is their standard technique.


Russia has been assaulting prepared defensive lines for months without much progress. 

Military logic would indicate higher russian losses. especially considering the (relatively poor) tactics and training involved.

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## Dalit

ZeGerman said:


> Russia has been assaulting prepared defensive lines for months without much progress.
> 
> Military logic would indicate higher russian losses. especially considering the (relatively poor) tactics and training involved.



We will see man. For the time being we are more than happy that the war goes on smoothly.

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## kingQamaR

PakFactor said:


> They became better allies for India than the cucks US/UK for Pakistan.
> 
> But I, for one, agree with @Dalit that this conflict works to our benefit. Suppose we can add more fuel to the fire, the less pressure on the Islamic World overall. Sadly, casualties happened, but even Ukraine jumped on the Coalition of the Willing bandwagon and went to Iraq, so no love was lost here. There is a reason why 50 some nations are silent between Pakistan and Morocco; they had the chance to pull up their Huggies diapers.



Ukraine supported us Pakistanis in UN against India many times over Kashmir for our PAK interests. Ukraine has even helped and sold us Pakistanis its weapons. It has offered many defence products to Pakistan and Pakistan also brought some products like T-80 tank, tank engine for its Al-Khalid tank etc. In exchange like I said Ukraine has supported us Pakistan at UN. AND putin Moscow has always been your enemy that’s never going to change. So I’m in return doing my bit for kiev on here you should do the same or are we just going become silly because of USA pakistan cRap politics. I believe it’s important not to be seen as untrustworthy unreliable in eyes of others by taking a neutral stance on one time good ally of ours kiev & Pakistan.and I got no time for our cowards in Rawalpindi, Ukraine war isn’t going to hide or cover up our weak fear of USA coming to us for help regardless of Ukrainian war. If you want to stop being kicked around by west then do what Ukrainians did fight for your selves and kick out your Rawalpindi corrupt boot lickers.

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## A.P. Richelieu

vi-va said:


> Not true. That's not history, just propaganda. Selective facts.


The war undeniably started with Germany invading Poland. They had an agreement in place with the Soviet Union to split up Poland before that, and the Soviet Union entering the war two weeks later was a result of that. That makes the Soviet Union as responsible as Germany.
Germany was aware of that the invasion would result in a war with the UK and France, and they took the decision to start the war.

Russia has been the aggressor in Ukraine since 2014.

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## vi-va

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The war undeniably started with Germany invading Poland. They had an agreement in place with the Soviet Union to split up Poland before that, and the Soviet Union entering the war two weeks later was a result of that. That makes the Soviet Union as responsible as Germany.
> Germany was aware of that the invasion would result in a war with the UK and France, and they took the decision to start the war.
> 
> Russia has been the aggressor in Ukraine since 2014.


I agree with the facts you pointed out. But this not full history, just selective facts. The origin of WW2 is a bit more complicated.

If we go back to what had happened before ww2, we can trace back to WW1 _*Treaty of Versailles*_, or even earlier.

Remember, the British killed more people, destroyed more nations than anyone else on earth throughout human history. Don't tell me they didn't have any responsibility on WW2.

Appeasement is the foreign policy of the British Empire, to make Germany attack the Soviet. Not to mention the divide and rule policy of the British Empire.

No one was innocent. The appeasement policy backfired.

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## vi-va

Beny Karachun said:


> It is, in 1939 Germany and USSR attacked Poland from both sides


Everyone knew it. Thanks.

But not the full picture of history.


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## Vergennes

People here talk of the "Bakhmut meat grinder" but the only meat grinder we see there are the Russians dying in waves after being sent in frontal attacks. And all this for Putin's imperialistic dreams.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608769659532369925




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608604102472400898

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> There is just one problem I see on this for the Islamic World.
> 
> Where are they going to turn to after this to balance the power of the region??
> 
> There are currently 3 powers that play into each other, the West (US+EU), Russia and China. The thing is, as this war drag on, what do you think Islamic World would see as an alternative to counter the asserted aggression by the West? Russia is thoroughly and utterly defeated in this, I mean, you don't really need to know anything military to know Russia is not doing well in this war. So how would people (not just Muslim) think Russia is a viable candidate to balance the West anymore?? So the remaining option is China, but then one issue tho, China seems to be abandoned Russia probably at their most needed time. I mean, the West, no matter what they did, they supported Ukraine even with the Pressure from Russia, China don't even send their drone to help the Russian or even artillery round or anything, by all account, China is hanging Russia out to dry, and they were supposedly blood brother (or all weather brother) like they proclaim and the longer this war go on, I mean if Russia, being that close (I mean geographically) to China and that powerful counterbalance to the west and still China still wouldn't jump in, why you think the Chinese would jump in and help the Islamic World in their time of needed??
> 
> Say on a hypothetical, if India really go to war or have some sort of border intrusion tomorrow, can Pakistan rely on China support when you guys have 11 months to see China stringing up Russia and withholding their support?
> 
> On the other hand, the longer this war continue, the more expensive the energy needs, the more the West and more likely China would want to seek alternative fuel and energy source, that would mean the single biggest weapon the Middle Eastern world had would lose its power, that being the controlling of fossil fuel. This war had opened people eyes not just on Russian aggression, but also the vulnerability of their energy security, EU was hit particularly hard, while diverting their energy need can nip the short-term issue for now, but the West are going to push for alternative energy abandoning Fossil Fuel probably quicker than all those woke nonsense combine. If you think of it this way, what kind of power Saudi or Qatar would yield if both the West and Chinese step away from fossil fuel??


I think the situation of Russia and Pakistan are different.

Russia is attacking Ukraine. While Pakistan will be defending India aggression.

If China supports Pakistan against India invasion, every Muslim countries will be on China side, including Bangladesh. Every India neighbor will support China, including Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bhutan.

While, if China provides weapons to Russia during the invasion of Ukraine, who will be on China side? None.

Offense and defense is different. Pakistan and Russia are in different position.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608681867062149121


Nice! Next step: ABRAMS, Apaches, F-16s in that order. Ukraine is getting stronger and stronger.

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## bobo6661

vi-va said:


> Everyone knew it. Thanks.
> 
> But not the full picture of history.


So what the full picture ? Russia worked with Nazi for years ... They gave them training ground for new weapon to test and resources. If Germany didn't invite them they would be best buddies till today

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## vi-va

bobo6661 said:


> So what the full picture ? Russia worked with Nazi for years ... They gave them training ground for new weapon to test and resources. If Germany didn't invite them they would be best buddies till today


You are Polish. I understand. We read different materials.


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## Broccoli

SIPRA said:


> It seems that these Ukrainians are getting training in propaganda from India. This is their standard technique.



Why would that be hard to believe? We've all seen Russians committing 10-15 soldier assault on Ukrainian positions all the time and they end up dying.


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## jhungary

vi-va said:


> I think the situation of Russia and Pakistan are different.
> 
> Russia is attacking Ukraine. While Pakistan will be defending India aggression.
> 
> If China supports Pakistan against India invasion, every Muslim countries will be on China side, including Bangladesh. Every India neighbor will support China, including Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bhutan.
> 
> While, if China provides weapons to Russia during the invasion of Ukraine, who will be on China side? None.
> 
> Offense and defense is different. Pakistan and Russia are in different position.


Well, if that is an unprovoked invasion between India and Pakistan, I would agree, the problem is, it's not always that clear cut. China sold weapon to Pakistan, and to some degree, train and transfer their technology to Pakistan, but I doubt China would do more. 

War is not about who is right or who is wrong, war is about taking side. Bear in mind, many people speculated before this war started, Putin most likely and did seek China tacit approval before he begin his invasion, xi most likely would have supported Russia had this campaign did not simply went to shit. On the other hand, China lack of support now went before Military, but also in political term, for example, nobody would have said anything if China stands by Russia and veto the UN motion on both UNSC and UNGA because that's virtually non-consequential move, as Russia itself would have vetoed anyway, but then China still would not put itself on Russian side. You may argue China see that this is either an illegal war, or it was really none of their business or cave to international pressure, but other people will say this is just China playing side, I mean large majority of Chinese are on Russian side on this, so that would mostly reflect by their government, as the citizens was fed what the Government feed them. 

If this is a limited war, China, would probably like Belorussia, would have engage in the late stage of the war and share the spoil, the fact that even Belorussia wasn't engaged in this war despite the fact that they allowed Russia to invade Ukraine from Belorussia soil, mostly because Russia failed spectacularly on this war and that was not foreseen by Chinese or Belorussian, and that's because even Russia did not foresee that coming on a full scale war.

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## mike2000 is back

Dalit said:


> All you have to do is browse in this thread and read the comments from dear honorable members. We are almost a year into the war. Just saying.
> 
> Dude, Russians have captured strategic areas and are now pushing for more. The more you guys rant in this topic the worse the situation gets for Ukraine. I think it is better for you guys take a pause. Perhaps that might improve the situation for Ukraine


To be honest Russia was saying this was going to be a 2 to 3 weeks "special military operation" to take over Ukraine and get rid of its "neo nazis". In fact if i want to be honest, many members on here , western military and political authorities in the West (including me) thought Russia will take over Ukraine in a matter of weeks. It was a surprise to everybody how determined Ukrainians were to defend their country, this encouraged western countries to start providing real aid to Ukraine. Without Ukrainian determination, sacrifice and passion to fight the invaders, Russia would have long captured all of Ukraine despite their horrendous incompetent leadership. 
So its actually Russia who has been embrassed in this conflict to be honest. They underestimated Ukraine's resolve to protect their territory. 
I'm sure if India invaded your home country Pakistan, then despite the odds many of you pakistanis will also be willing to sacrifice fight and them to the end no? Lol So you should sympathise with Ukraine i suppose. 😁😆

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## mike2000 is back

925boy said:


> which means your side is behind, because it cant have effective strategy without knowing what the opposite sie is thinking.
> 
> but its Ukranians who have died like cannon fodder in Bakmut- you've got it reversed here buddy- Ukraine lost so many soldiers in Bakhmut- even the Ukranian troops in Bakhmut couldnt hide the fact that so many Ukranian troops had been neutralised there- Ukrainian army tried to hide that fact by just sending more soldiers there- and Russia gladly continued to denazify good Ukrainian ground forces- easier in one place/Bakhmut than chasing them all over Ukraine no?
> 
> Ukraine DID use up ALOT of its men- the "Bakhmut meat grinder " is now a historical phrase and reality in the Ukraine war- this is reality, not a fake cartoon character like ghost of Kiev.
> 
> lmao..you're so behind, no wonder Ukraine is losing territory daily now- its war plans are broken - no electricity, no transformers, no artillery on the frontline, no real APCs, now using pick uip trucks, obv no fuel, no morale- lots of POWs being captured daily.
> 
> But the war is still heavy, but i am seeing signs that Russia's military is well supported and greased up on the "back end", but Ukraine's back end war logistics is in horrible shapes- no trains to transport military personnel and equipment due to denazification of Ukraine's power grid, no artillery, no warm meals on the frontline right as COLD winter sets in...low equipment supply to Ukrainian troops, thats why they fire few artillery (and are dying more because of that).
> 
> I know who has the momentum in this war as of today- its Russia.


You didn't respond to my point about why your Mullahs in Iran had to sacrifice over a million of you people fighting Iraq's invasion, instead of surrendering to Saddam(who was like a military hegemon back then) and negotiating for a peaceful settlelent and just giving up some territory to Iraq to avoid the deaths and destruction of Iraq. Yet the Mullahs insisted on fighting and even sending child soldiers on front line as cannon fodder for the hobor of the country. Lol 
Seems your Mullah's made the same decision as Zelensky's government which you are now criticising for daring to fight their invader. 😆

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## kingQamaR

mike2000 is back said:


> To be honest Russia waw saying this was goibg to be a 2 to 3 weeks special military operation to take over Ukraine and get rid of its "neo nazis". In fact if i want to be honest, many members on here , western military and political authorities in the West (including me) thought Russia will take over Ukraine in a matter of weeks. It was a surprise to everybody how determined Ukrainians were to defend their country, this encouraged western countries to start providing real aid to Ukraine. Without Ukrainian determination, sacrifice and passion to fight the invaders, Russia would have long captured all of Ukraine despite their horrendous incompetent leadership.
> So its actually Russia who has been embrassed in this conflict to be honest. They underestimated Ukraine's resolve to protect their territory.
> Im sure if India invaded your home country Pakistan, then despite the odds many of you pakistanis will also be willing to sacrifice fight and them to the end no? Lol So you should sympathise with Ukraine i suppose. 😁😆



From the outset western military specialists were saying even if the Russians were to take the land to hold Ukraine against the will of the people would need a force of 1 million soldiers and every month would see hundreds going home in body bags. Even to hold the Dombas area would need 100,000 troops. Conscripts do not know how to conduct this type of combat so the casualty level will be very high. The Russian approach of scaring Ukraine into submission failed and now the take it by force option is also failing. If the Russians were wise to avoid further losses and embarrassment they would withdraw.

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## mike2000 is back

kingQamaR said:


> From the outset western military specialists were saying even if the Russians were to take the land to hold Ukraine against the will of the people would need a force of 1 million soldiers and every month would see hundreds going home in body bags. Even to hold the Dombas area would need 100,000 troops. Conscripts do not know how to conduct this type of combat so the casualty level will be very high. The Russian approach of scaring Ukraine into submission failed and now the take it by force option is also failing. If the Russians were wise to avoid further losses and embarrassment they would withdraw.


Dude, as i said, most western intelligence services and analyst were predicting a quick Russian invasion of Ukraine. 


THE CIA THOUGHT PUTIN WOULD QUICKLY CONQUER UKRAINE. WHY DID THEY GET IT SO WRONG?

High-tech surveillance may have blinded the U.S. to how corruption has weakened the Russian military.
James Risen, Ken Klippenstein
October 5 2022, 8:08 p.m.

President Joe Biden speaks during a visit at the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters in Langley, Va., on July 8, 2022. Photo: Samuel Corum/AFP via Getty Images

EVER SINCE UKRAINE launched a successful counteroffensive against Russian forces in late August, American officials have tried to claim credit, insisting that U.S. intelligence has been key to Ukraine’s battlefield victories.

Yet U.S. officials have simultaneously downplayed their intelligence failures in Ukraine — especially their glaring mistakes at the outset of the war. When Putin invaded in February, U.S. intelligence officials told the White House that Russia would win in a matter of days by quickly overwhelming the Ukrainian army, according to current and former U.S. intelligence officials, who asked not to be named to discuss sensitive information.

The Central Intelligence Agency was so pessimistic about Ukraine’s chances that officials told President Joe Biden and other policymakers that the best they could expect was that the remnants of Ukraine’s defeated forces would mount an insurgency, a guerrilla war against the Russian occupiers. By the time of the February invasion, the CIA was already planning how to provide covert support for a Ukrainian insurgency following a Russian military victory, the officials said.

U.S. intelligence reports at the time predicted that Kyiv would fall quickly, perhaps in a week or two at the most. The predictions spurred the Biden administration to secretly withdraw some key U.S. intelligence assets from Ukraine, including covert former special operations personnel on contract with the CIA, the current and former official. 

Read more here: 










The CIA Thought Putin Would Quickly Conquer Ukraine. Why Did They Get It So Wrong?


High-tech surveillance may have blinded the U.S. to how corruption has weakened the Russian military.




theintercept.com






Russia's military performance in Ukraine has been an embarrassment and surprised even to us in the West. It has shown us that the country is full of corruption and the rot in the system goes way deeper than we thought and that we gave them way more credit than they deserved. This will have long term consequences for the country for decades to come, since we have now seen their true state of affairs. Lol They are sagging powe and will be even more so with the isolation and sanctions we have imposed on them(they will become a Chinese subordinate by default in the coling decades). China will be the real long term threat(reason US is focusing more on them and not Russia), Russia will just be a side show. Lol
To put things into perspectives, if the US was to fight Russia today, believe me that country will not last a few months. The only saving grace Russias has that makes the West even take them abit seriously is just their nuclear arsenal. Conventionally i doubt Russia can even take on normal european powers to be honest.

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## jhungary

vi-va said:


> I agree with the facts you pointed out. But this not full history, just selective facts. The origin of WW2 is a bit more complicated.
> 
> If we go back to what had happened before ww2, we can trace back to WW1 _*Treaty of Versailles*_, or even earlier.
> 
> Remember, the British killed more people, destroyed more nations than anyone else on earth throughout human history. Don't tell me they didn't have any responsibility on WW2.
> 
> Appeasement is the foreign policy of the British Empire, to make Germany attack the Soviet. Not to mention the divide and rule policy of the British Empire.
> 
> No one was innocent. The appeasement policy backfired.


In War Studies or History when people study war, you were taught war was not started for one single reason alone (Much like everything else), nothing happened for a singluarity, there are multiple reason why something happened. If you are a student of war, you learn about the Primus Casus Belli and Secundus Casus Belli

If we are to talk about what cause WW2. there are multitude of factors, it's like why US declare war on Japan, the primary cause is undoubtedly Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor, that's the primary cause of war, because without that, the two side WILL NOT go to war. But then what make Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor? That would have been the secondary cause, because Emperor of Japan (or Tojo to be precise) would not just wake up one day and have bomb Pearl Harbor on his to-do list. There must be a reason, or a list of reasoning or rationale to justify him doing just that, that entire list would have the secondary cause of war. That would include the reason of United State don't want to relinquish their territories in Pacific (Guam, Marianna, Philippine and so on) and that is why US pressed Japan hard on issue, which in turn leads to Japan see there are no other way but to preempt the American and bring American to war. 

On British and WW2 case, the primary cause is undoubtedly Germany launch an invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939, because that trigger the mutual defensive pact on the Great Britain and France, which essentially bring the entire Europe in war. The problem is, what Germany justify on their main cause of war would include the unfair treatment of post WW1 as Treaty of Versailles, specifically the Military mandate and the repatriation, while legitimise Germany War aims, but the fact that British and French allowing Nazi Germany to growth uncheck due to its appeasement policy if not false then it would outright arguabile. The main reason the British and French appease Germany is because they do not have another war in them back in late 1930, in fact, if Germany outright invade Britain, there are pretty much nothing the Brits could do except try to fight them off at seas. Judging by the failure of BEF and French at the early stage of fighting, had US not involved in WW2, British and France would probably only able to recover from WW1 in early to mid-1950s.

The only thing we can blame the British or French on WW2 is they chew off more than they can take, as evidentially how League of Nation had failed to prevent WW2. Simply because if you are to oppress the German, you need to have that big military power to back it up, the fact that they didn't mean they should go with a softer approach instead of a hardline approach toward the end of WW1.

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> Well, if that is an unprovoked invasion between India and Pakistan, I would agree, the problem is, it's not always that clear cut. China sold weapon to Pakistan, and to some degree, train and transfer their technology to Pakistan, but I doubt China would do more.
> 
> War is not about who is right or who is wrong, war is about taking side. Bear in mind, many people speculated before this war started, Putin most likely and did seek China tacit approval before he begin his invasion, xi most likely would have supported Russia had this campaign did not simply went to shit. On the other hand, China lack of support now went before Military, but also in political term, for example, nobody would have said anything if China stands by Russia and veto the UN motion on both UNSC and UNGA because that's virtually non-consequential move, as Russia itself would have vetoed anyway, but then China still would not put itself on Russian side. You may argue China see that this is either an illegal war, or it was really none of their business or cave to international pressure, but other people will say this is just China playing side, I mean large majority of Chinese are on Russian side on this, so that would mostly reflect by their government, as the citizens was fed what the Government feed them.
> 
> If this is a limited war, China, would probably like Belorussia, would have engage in the late stage of the war and share the spoil, the fact that even Belorussia wasn't engaged in this war despite the fact that they allowed Russia to invade Ukraine from Belorussia soil, mostly because Russia failed spectacularly on this war and that was not foreseen by Chinese or Belorussian, and that's because even Russia did not foresee that coming on a full scale war.



*Dude, if you read Chinese social media, this is not true. *

Yes, lots of Chinese support Russia in the first couple of weeks. Because Russia asked NATO to stay away from Ukraine, that's a reasonable request.
Then Russia took 4 states of Ukraine, and merge them into Russia Federal. This is something totally different. *No country merged the territory of another country which was recognized by UN since WW2 ended.*
*Then Russia start bombing Ukraine civilian facility. This is not liberation of Ukrainians at all.*

Please go check Chinese social media, see what majority Chinese say. Most Chinese don't support Russia annexation, neither I.




jhungary said:


> I mean large majority of Chinese are on Russian side on this, so that would mostly reflect by their government, as the citizens was fed what the Government feed them.



China is a rational country, or realist. China care her own national interest.

*What can China get if China support Russia annexation?* I don't see Russia making an offer, I don't know the details. But apparently, China's loss will be huge.

While if India want to have a large scale war against Pakistan. *It's in China's core national interest to torn India apart. China would support Pakistan fully, and beat the India.*

I can assure you, 99.9% Chinese will support Pakistan if the war breaks up between Pakistan and India. Chinese government has enough resource and weapons, intelligence, surveillance *to give India a hard lesson.*

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## jhungary

vi-va said:


> *Dude, if you read Chinese social media, this is not true. *
> 
> Yes, lots of Chinese support Russia in the first couple of weeks. Because Russia asked NATO to stay away from Ukraine, that's a reasonable request.
> Then Russia took 4 states of Ukraine, and merge them into Russia Federal. This is something totally different. *No country merged the territory of another country which was recognized by UN since WW2 ended.*
> *Then Russia start bombing Ukraine civilian facility. This is not liberation of Ukrainians at all.*
> 
> Please go check Chinese social media, see what majority Chinese say. Most Chinese don't support Russia annexation, neither I.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China is a rational country, or realist. China care her own national interest.
> 
> *What can China get if China support Russia annexation?* I don't see Russia making an offer, I don't know the details. But apparently, China's loss will be huge.
> 
> While if India want to have a large scale war against Pakistan. *It's in China's core national interest to torn India apart. China would support Pakistan fully, and beat the India.*
> 
> I can assure you, 99.9% Chinese will support Pakistan if the war breaks up between Pakistan and India. Chinese government has enough resource and weapons, intelligence, surveillance *to give India a hard lesson.*


About social media, it's really depends on where or which side you are watching. Even in Russia, I personally know groups that anti-war, but then that does not mean the war have no public backing.

I will agree to disagree to the rest, the only way to find out is if a war really do break out between India and Pakistan. And I don't plan or hoping for that to happen. Otherwise, it's all going to be speculation.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608757659230167042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608761967426306048
HIMARS strikes again

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608824919617601536
Russian cruise missile shot down yesterday

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608716894177230850
Another Russian cruise missile shot down with MANPAD

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> About social media, it's really depends on where or which side you are watching. Even in Russia, I personally know groups that anti-war, but then that does not mean the war have no public backing.
> 
> I will agree to disagree to the rest, the only way to find out is if a war really do break out between India and Pakistan. And I don't plan or hoping for that to happen. Otherwise, it's all going to be speculation.


You knew Chinese Quora - zhihu.com ? This is one of the most trustworthy media platform. 

There are tons of serious discussion on Russia annexation. Over 80 percent Chinese disagree to the annexation. And by the way, zhihu.com is base on real-name system. You can't register lots of spam account. 

Besides, lots of Chinese shocked how terrible Russian logistic is, as well as countless mistakes Russian Army made, not to mention the absence of Russian Air force.

So, you say there is stereotype propaganda campaign in China, no, most Chinese don't buy that bullshit.

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## Beny Karachun

vi-va said:


> Everyone knew it. Thanks.
> 
> But not the full picture of history.


Okay so what other act started WW2 if not Russia's and Germany's invasion of Poland?

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> In War Studies or History when people study war, you were taught war was not started for one single reason alone (Much like everything else), nothing happened for a singluarity, there are multiple reason why something happened. If you are a student of war, you learn about the Primus Casus Belli and Secundus Casus Belli
> 
> If we are to talk about what cause WW2. there are multitude of factors, it's like why US declare war on Japan, the primary cause is undoubtedly Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor, that's the primary cause of war, because without that, the two side WILL NOT go to war. But then what make Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor? That would have been the secondary cause, because Emperor of Japan (or Tojo to be precise) would not just wake up one day and have bomb Pearl Harbor on his to-do list. There must be a reason, or a list of reasoning or rationale to justify him doing just that, that entire list would have the secondary cause of war. That would include the reason of United State don't want to relinquish their territories in Pacific (Guam, Marianna, Philippine and so on) and that is why US pressed Japan hard on issue, which in turn leads to Japan see there are no other way but to preempt the American and bring American to war.
> 
> On British and WW2 case, the primary cause is undoubtedly Germany launch an invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939, because that trigger the mutual defensive pact on the Great Britain and France, which essentially bring the entire Europe in war. The problem is, what Germany justify on their main cause of war would include the unfair treatment of post WW1 as Treaty of Versailles, specifically the Military mandate and the repatriation, while legitimise Germany War aims, but the fact that British and French allowing Nazi Germany to growth uncheck due to its appeasement policy if not false then it would outright arguabile. The main reason the British and French appease Germany is because they do not have another war in them back in late 1930, in fact, if Germany outright invade Britain, there are pretty much nothing the Brits could do except try to fight them off at seas. Judging by the failure of BEF and French at the early stage of fighting, had US not involved in WW2, British and France would probably only able to recover from WW1 in early to mid-1950s.
> 
> The only thing we can blame the British or French on WW2 is they chew off more than they can take, as evidentially how League of Nation had failed to prevent WW2. Simply because if you are to oppress the German, you need to have that big military power to back it up, the fact that they didn't mean they should go with a softer approach instead of a hardline approach toward the end of WW1.


It's complicated. Different nations have different views. Leave it to historians.  

Thanks for your reply.


----------



## vi-va

Beny Karachun said:


> Okay so what other act started WW2 if not Russia's and Germany's invasion of Poland?


Long story


----------



## jhungary

vi-va said:


> You knew Chinese Quora - zhihu.com ? This is one of the most trustworthy media platform.
> 
> There are tons of serious discussion on Russia annexation. Over 80 percent Chinese disagree to the annexation. And by the way, zhihu.com is base on real-name system. You can't register lots of spam account.
> 
> Besides, lots of Chinese shocked how terrible Russian logistic is, as well as countless mistakes Russian Army made, not to mention the absence of Russian Air force.
> 
> So, you say there is stereotype propaganda campaign in China, no, most Chinese don't buy that bullshit.


Well, what I am saying is that information can be manipulated, and I did that both during my military and my law enforcement career. And as I said before, I don't believe in being right or wrong or whether you support annexation is the matter here.

I am not saying that there is a stereotype propaganda campaign in China, I am saying people tend to be fed by media, this is as true in China than in the West, the only difference is, Western media are two camps, left and right, and there is only one camp in China.

And I know about 知乎

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## A.P. Richelieu

vi-va said:


> I agree with the facts you pointed out. But this not full history, just selective facts. The origin of WW2 is a bit more complicated.
> 
> If we go back to what had happened before ww2, we can trace back to WW1 _*Treaty of Versailles*_, or even earlier.
> 
> Remember, the British killed more people, destroyed more nations than anyone else on earth throughout human history. Don't tell me they didn't have any responsibility on WW2.
> 
> Appeasement is the foreign policy of the British Empire, to make Germany attack the Soviet. Not to mention the divide and rule policy of the British Empire.
> 
> No one was innocent. The appeasement policy backfired.


The Appeasement policy was put in place to avoid the ruinous consequences of WWI yet again. It did not work, because Hitler had a long term goal to conquer the East, and he was not going to be stopped. He announced his intention way before the Appeasement policy. It was put in place since the Germans used trickery to make the West believe they were much stronger than they actually were. As an example, French officers visited a number of Luftwaffe bases, and a single Geschwader was flown around to each airbase they visited with the aircrafts being repainted with new markings.

The Appeasement policy not working is one of the main reasons why Ukraine is getting support. People now realize that Hitler, Stalin and Putin are of the same type, and appeasement will only grow their appetite.

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## vi-va

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Appeasement policy was put in place to avoid the ruinous consequences of WWI yet again. It did not work, because Hitler had a long term goal to conquer the East, and he was not going to be stopped. He announced his intention way before the Appeasement policy. It was put in place since the Germans used trickery to make the West believe they were much stronger than they actually were. As an example, French officers visited a number of Luftwaffe bases, and a single Geschwader was flown around to each airbase they visited with the aircrafts being repainted with new markings.
> 
> The Appeasement policy not working is one of the main reasons why Ukraine is getting support. People now realize that Hitler, Stalin and Putin are of the same type, and appeasement will only grow their appetite.


True. Appeasement won a terrible reputation in WW2. 
I will leave the reason of WW2 and Invasion of Ukraine to historians. 



jhungary said:


> Well, what I am saying is that information can be manipulated, and I did that both during my military and my law enforcement career. And as I said before, I don't believe in being right or wrong or whether you support annexation is the matter here.
> 
> I am not saying that there is a stereotype propaganda campaign in China, I am saying people tend to be fed by media, this is as true in China than in the West, the only difference is, Western media are two camps, left and right, and there is only one camp in China.
> 
> And I know about 知乎


Good. I agree, and I don't believe right or wrong. 

The only thing matters here is political analysis. China foreign policy is realism. China would have supported Russia much more if Russia made an offer. I didn't see that happening.


----------



## Viet

mike2000 is back said:


> Dude, as i said, most western intelligence services and analyst were predicting a quick Russian invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> THE CIA THOUGHT PUTIN WOULD QUICKLY CONQUER UKRAINE. WHY DID THEY GET IT SO WRONG?
> 
> High-tech surveillance may have blinded the U.S. to how corruption has weakened the Russian military.
> James Risen, Ken Klippenstein
> October 5 2022, 8:08 p.m.
> 
> President Joe Biden speaks during a visit at the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters in Langley, Va., on July 8, 2022. Photo: Samuel Corum/AFP via Getty Images
> 
> EVER SINCE UKRAINE launched a successful counteroffensive against Russian forces in late August, American officials have tried to claim credit, insisting that U.S. intelligence has been key to Ukraine’s battlefield victories.
> 
> Yet U.S. officials have simultaneously downplayed their intelligence failures in Ukraine — especially their glaring mistakes at the outset of the war. When Putin invaded in February, U.S. intelligence officials told the White House that Russia would win in a matter of days by quickly overwhelming the Ukrainian army, according to current and former U.S. intelligence officials, who asked not to be named to discuss sensitive information.
> 
> The Central Intelligence Agency was so pessimistic about Ukraine’s chances that officials told President Joe Biden and other policymakers that the best they could expect was that the remnants of Ukraine’s defeated forces would mount an insurgency, a guerrilla war against the Russian occupiers. By the time of the February invasion, the CIA was already planning how to provide covert support for a Ukrainian insurgency following a Russian military victory, the officials said.
> 
> U.S. intelligence reports at the time predicted that Kyiv would fall quickly, perhaps in a week or two at the most. The predictions spurred the Biden administration to secretly withdraw some key U.S. intelligence assets from Ukraine, including covert former special operations personnel on contract with the CIA, the current and former official.
> 
> Read more here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The CIA Thought Putin Would Quickly Conquer Ukraine. Why Did They Get It So Wrong?
> 
> 
> High-tech surveillance may have blinded the U.S. to how corruption has weakened the Russian military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theintercept.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russias military performance has been an embarrassment and surprised even to us in the West. It has shown us that the country is full of corruption and rot in the system and that we gave them way more credit than they deserved. This will jave mong term consequences for the country for decades to come, since we have now seen their true state of affairs. Lol They are sagging power. China will be the real long term threat(reason US is docusing more on themand not Russia), Russia will just be a side show. Lol


To be honest

Most western military intelligence und western political centers had assumed Ukraine including Kiew would fall within a week. I myself had the same assessment.

But then after one week when Kiew still standing, it turns out Putin is the real saver of Ukraine.

He and the Russia red army are too corrupt, too arrogant and too incompetent.

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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> Ukraine supported us Pakistanis in UN against India many times over Kashmir for our PAK interests. Ukraine has even helped and sold us Pakistanis its weapons. It has offered many defence products to Pakistan and Pakistan also brought some products like T-80 tank, tank engine for its Al-Khalid tank etc. In exchange like I said Ukraine has supported us Pakistan at UN. AND putin Moscow has always been your enemy that’s never going to change. So I’m in return doing my bit for kiev on here you should do the same or are we just going become silly because of USA pakistan cRap politics. I believe it’s important not to be seen as untrustworthy unreliable in eyes of others by taking a neutral stance on one time good ally of ours kiev & Pakistan.and I got no time for our cowards in Rawalpindi, Ukraine war isn’t going to hide or cover up our weak fear of USA coming to us for help regardless of Ukrainian war. If you want to stop being kicked around by west then do what Ukrainians did fight for your selves and kick out your Rawalpindi corrupt boot lickers.



Bhai, as I said, “add fuel to the fire” there is no such thing as friends or allies. Our objective should be to keep the conflict centered in Ukraine and possibly let it spread out. In my book, I don't care much about UN support. It's a useless body. The rest money was exchanged for the products. It's an ordinary course of business.

As for the West, as I mentioned to @jhungary they've won against all other races and religions. Nothing besides a nuke can dislodge them. This is the effect of feeding one monster and it grows uncontrollable.

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## Ali_Baba

Russia-Ukraine war live: Putin announces plan to strengthen cooperation with Chinese armed forces


Russian president and Chinese counterpart Xi vow to deepen ties in bilateral talks




www.theguardian.com







> European gas prices fall to pre-Ukraine war level​Jasper Jolly
> European gas prices have dipped to a level last seen before Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine in February, after warmer weather across the continent eased concerns over shortages.
> 
> *The month-ahead European gas future contract dropped as low as €76.78 per megawatt hour on Wednesday, the lowest level in 10 months, before closing higher at €83.70, according to Refinitiv, a data company.*
> 
> The invasion roiled global energy markets and forced European countries, including industrial powerhouse Germany, to look for alternative suppliers to those funding the Kremlin. Europe had continued to rely on Russian gas even after its 2014 annexation of Crimea and support for separatists in eastern Ukraine.



>> The worst of winter has passed - energy war by Putin against the west has failed ...









Indian leather companies accused of enabling Russia’s war effort


Soldiers’ boots are made from imported Indian leather as country’s trade with Russia soars by 400%




www.theguardian.com







Indian leather companies accused of enabling Russia’s war effort​ 
Hannah Ellis-Petersen

Indian companies have been accused of enabling Russia’s war effort after exporting leather to Russian companies that make boots for its military in the months since the invasion of Ukraine.
Russia and India have longstanding ties and Narendra Modi’s government has not joined western countries in openly criticising Moscow over the war nor stopped Indian companies trading with Russia.
*Trade has instead boomed by 413% as India has become one of the biggest purchasers of cheap Russian crude oil and Russian manufacturers increasingly look to India to supply crucial goods that can no longer come from the west.

The Ukrainian government has in response accused India of giving Vladimir Putin a “loophole” against western sanctions and in a speech this week Volodymyr Zelenskiy, the Ukrainian president, called for India to be “more active” in efforts to end Russian aggression.*

The Indian leather company Homera Tanning, based in the state of Haryana, was upfront about its dealings with Russia. The company confirmed it was supplying leather hides and leather boot products worth £830,000 each month to Russia and that two of the biggest users of its materials were Donobuv and Vostok, Russian footwear companies that are primary suppliers of boots to the Russian military.
Publicly available records from 2021 show Donobuv had contracts worth millions of roubles with the Russian government to manufacture military footwear. Russian government procurements are no longer public since the invasion but the company is so important to the war effort that its workers are exempt from conscription.

“Russia was a regular market like any other market, like China or Europe, but suddenly after the war there was a boost in demand,” said Tahir Rizwan, the director of Homera Tanning. “I think one of the reasons we had this boom was because the west was no longer supplying to them.”

*Rizwan said the leather sold to Russian companies was a “particular kind of leather, used only for army shoes and for safety shoes for industries like oil and gas”.*

Russia had accounted for about 10% of business before the war, Rizwan said, but that was now up to about 70%, with Donobuv and Vostok among the biggest customers. Rizwan confirmed his company was now shipping seven or eight containers of leather products, both finished buffalo leather hides and the upper part of the boot, from India to Russia each month.

According to import and export data, in the five months between May and October, Homera Tanning exported more than £5m worth of leather boots products to Russia.

Aaisha International, a sister leather company to Homera Tanning that shares executive management, sold £132,000 worth of finished leather directly to Donobuv in August and another £135,000 in October.

*Since the invasion of Ukraine, India has trodden carefully to balance its ties with both the west and Russia, which supplies about 70% of India’s weapons. But the lure of cheap Russian crude has made India Moscow’s second largest oil customer, with Russia rising to being India’s fifth largest trading partner, up from 25th last year.*

Indian officials have defended buying oil from Russia, saying the lower price benefits India and the EU buys 10 times more fossil fuels from Russia. *But the flourishing trade between India and Russia has become an increasingly sticky issue in the face of strict sanctions imposed by Europe and the US.*

Alexandra Vasylenko, the special envoy on sanctions and humanitarian assistance to the Ukrainian foreign minister, said India was among the countries enabling a sanctions loophole for Russia as it “tries to fill in the void left by western companies”.

“These ongoing transactions are eroding Russia’s international isolation and impeding the Ukrainian people’s efforts to defend their country and global security,” said Vasylenko.

Leather is just one of the products that Russian companies have been hoping to acquire from India in the face of western sanctions, with Moscow recently sending a list to India of about 500 goods it was looking to import.

With a growing £16.6bn trade deficit, India is also pushing to export more to Russia. In October, India exported £232m worth of goods to Russia, up 3.7% compared to a year ago, and the Indian foreign minister, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, said it hoped to double trade in the “foreseeable future”.

Ajay Sahai, the director general of the Federation of Indian Export Organisations, confirmed that Indian exporters were now inundated with requests and queries from Russian businesses that were desperate for the supply of goods, from food products, chemicals and electronics to raw materials and car parts.

“Russia requires almost everything under the sun,” said Sahai. “The west has stopped exporting to Russia, so they are now looking to the Indian market for what they need.”

Sahai said he expected India-Russia trade to increase further in 2023. However, he acknowledged that there were “risks and challenges” involved in trading with Russia and said some bigger Indian exporters were hesitant to do business with Russia over fears they could get caught up in western sanctions.

Rizwan said Homera Tanning had received no pushback for supplying leather goods to Russia, but payments were difficult as very few Indian banks would accept a transfer from Russia and often the payments would bounce.

A shipping line only goes directly from India to Russia once a month, so it often has to send the leather goods through Turkey and Iran in order to reach Russia. “It’s not so easy or convenient as it was,” he said. “There are a lot of obstacles.”

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia-Ukraine war live: Putin announces plan to strengthen cooperation with Chinese armed forces
> 
> 
> Russian president and Chinese counterpart Xi vow to deepen ties in bilateral talks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> The worst of winter has passed - energy war by Putin against the west has failed ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian leather companies accused of enabling Russia’s war effort
> 
> 
> Soldiers’ boots are made from imported Indian leather as country’s trade with Russia soars by 400%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian leather companies accused of enabling Russia’s war effort​
> Hannah Ellis-Petersen
> 
> Indian companies have been accused of enabling Russia’s war effort after exporting leather to Russian companies that make boots for its military in the months since the invasion of Ukraine.
> Russia and India have longstanding ties and Narendra Modi’s government has not joined western countries in openly criticising Moscow over the war nor stopped Indian companies trading with Russia.
> *Trade has instead boomed by 413% as India has become one of the biggest purchasers of cheap Russian crude oil and Russian manufacturers increasingly look to India to supply crucial goods that can no longer come from the west.
> 
> The Ukrainian government has in response accused India of giving Vladimir Putin a “loophole” against western sanctions and in a speech this week Volodymyr Zelenskiy, the Ukrainian president, called for India to be “more active” in efforts to end Russian aggression.*
> 
> The Indian leather company Homera Tanning, based in the state of Haryana, was upfront about its dealings with Russia. The company confirmed it was supplying leather hides and leather boot products worth £830,000 each month to Russia and that two of the biggest users of its materials were Donobuv and Vostok, Russian footwear companies that are primary suppliers of boots to the Russian military.
> Publicly available records from 2021 show Donobuv had contracts worth millions of roubles with the Russian government to manufacture military footwear. Russian government procurements are no longer public since the invasion but the company is so important to the war effort that its workers are exempt from conscription.
> 
> “Russia was a regular market like any other market, like China or Europe, but suddenly after the war there was a boost in demand,” said Tahir Rizwan, the director of Homera Tanning. “I think one of the reasons we had this boom was because the west was no longer supplying to them.”
> 
> *Rizwan said the leather sold to Russian companies was a “particular kind of leather, used only for army shoes and for safety shoes for industries like oil and gas”.*
> 
> Russia had accounted for about 10% of business before the war, Rizwan said, but that was now up to about 70%, with Donobuv and Vostok among the biggest customers. Rizwan confirmed his company was now shipping seven or eight containers of leather products, both finished buffalo leather hides and the upper part of the boot, from India to Russia each month.
> 
> According to import and export data, in the five months between May and October, Homera Tanning exported more than £5m worth of leather boots products to Russia.
> 
> Aaisha International, a sister leather company to Homera Tanning that shares executive management, sold £132,000 worth of finished leather directly to Donobuv in August and another £135,000 in October.
> 
> *Since the invasion of Ukraine, India has trodden carefully to balance its ties with both the west and Russia, which supplies about 70% of India’s weapons. But the lure of cheap Russian crude has made India Moscow’s second largest oil customer, with Russia rising to being India’s fifth largest trading partner, up from 25th last year.*
> 
> Indian officials have defended buying oil from Russia, saying the lower price benefits India and the EU buys 10 times more fossil fuels from Russia. *But the flourishing trade between India and Russia has become an increasingly sticky issue in the face of strict sanctions imposed by Europe and the US.*
> 
> Alexandra Vasylenko, the special envoy on sanctions and humanitarian assistance to the Ukrainian foreign minister, said India was among the countries enabling a sanctions loophole for Russia as it “tries to fill in the void left by western companies”.
> 
> “These ongoing transactions are eroding Russia’s international isolation and impeding the Ukrainian people’s efforts to defend their country and global security,” said Vasylenko.
> 
> Leather is just one of the products that Russian companies have been hoping to acquire from India in the face of western sanctions, with Moscow recently sending a list to India of about 500 goods it was looking to import.
> 
> With a growing £16.6bn trade deficit, India is also pushing to export more to Russia. In October, India exported £232m worth of goods to Russia, up 3.7% compared to a year ago, and the Indian foreign minister, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, said it hoped to double trade in the “foreseeable future”.
> 
> Ajay Sahai, the director general of the Federation of Indian Export Organisations, confirmed that Indian exporters were now inundated with requests and queries from Russian businesses that were desperate for the supply of goods, from food products, chemicals and electronics to raw materials and car parts.
> 
> “Russia requires almost everything under the sun,” said Sahai. “The west has stopped exporting to Russia, so they are now looking to the Indian market for what they need.”
> 
> Sahai said he expected India-Russia trade to increase further in 2023. However, he acknowledged that there were “risks and challenges” involved in trading with Russia and said some bigger Indian exporters were hesitant to do business with Russia over fears they could get caught up in western sanctions.
> 
> Rizwan said Homera Tanning had received no pushback for supplying leather goods to Russia, but payments were difficult as very few Indian banks would accept a transfer from Russia and often the payments would bounce.
> 
> A shipping line only goes directly from India to Russia once a month, so it often has to send the leather goods through Turkey and Iran in order to reach Russia. “It’s not so easy or convenient as it was,” he said. “There are a lot of obstacles.”


Few hundreds thousands dollars here and there That’s too little. Russia trades with west before the war is multiple times higher than Russia trades with China and India combined. That’s Putin’s worst trade off ever.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608910353727127552

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608923258937839616

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## oberschlesier

The Gas prices in Europe are almost like one ago: 





ICE Futures and Options | Product Guide


Contracts are for physical delivery through the transfer of rights in respect of Natural Gas at the Title Transfer Facility (TTF) Virtual Trading Point, operated by Gasunie Transport Services (GTS), the transmission system operator in the Netherlands. Delivery is made equally each hour...




www.theice.com





The level of Gas storage in Europe is at 83% and it is rising(!):
https://agsi.gie.eu/ 

We are freezing without Russian gas ... brrrr

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608924006346022912

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## oberschlesier

925boy said:


> this is already known.
> 
> then how did over 1200 active members of Poland's army die on the frontline in Ukraine already? And US army and British army has both admitted to having some troops in Ukraine presently...so you are hiding behind semantics- Russia caught NATO trying to integrate Ukraine into NATO, on Russia's border, so NATO IS on the hook for the war, because it keeps it going- saying its a proxy war vs a direct war changes nothing important about this conflict. NATO will meet its waterloo in Ukraine..it wont be able to fight another war after Ukraine..cuz Russia will make sure that if its not gonna win, NATO leaves Ukraine broken too, how does Biden get out of this? Ukraine doesnt have infinite # of soldiers.
> 
> LMAO- all theory bullshit- why cant NATO enter directly to finish "broken down" Russia? action speaks louder than words- and NATO cowards fear direct conflict with even a Russia at war and with losses...tells me how weak NATO is--..cant even boot up and stage troops around Iran for military pressure due to not getting back into the nuclear deal..NATO only has enemies to fight that will ensure NATO troops also die after starting the aggression....that's why NATO is hesitant- its troops will die in larger numbers than ever, and it wont be able to fight China -stupid NATO alreaddy lost to China without a bullet actually fired..lmaooo.


"1200 active members of Poland's army" yeah LOL, 1000000 Milion... It is not possible to happen in a country with a free media... in reality 4 volunteers died.. maybe a bit more not known. Active members of the army ? yeah LOL, they have a job contract to protect Poland and NATO, you cannot just send the army abroad like this in numbers, it`s against the law. If they would die, the families would do a UBER UBER shit storm about this in the independent media. This is not happening, so this not the case. Just cheap propaganda to counter the fact, that Russia is loosing the war against the poorest country in Europe. NATO has not even started yet...

*Anyways, I`m always happy to read, that Russia is afraid of the super duper Polish empire*

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## Cash GK

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia-Ukraine war live: Putin announces plan to strengthen cooperation with Chinese armed forces
> 
> 
> Russian president and Chinese counterpart Xi vow to deepen ties in bilateral talks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> The worst of winter has passed - energy war by Putin against the west has failed ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian leather companies accused of enabling Russia’s war effort
> 
> 
> Soldiers’ boots are made from imported Indian leather as country’s trade with Russia soars by 400%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian leather companies accused of enabling Russia’s war effort​
> Hannah Ellis-Petersen
> 
> Indian companies have been accused of enabling Russia’s war effort after exporting leather to Russian companies that make boots for its military in the months since the invasion of Ukraine.
> Russia and India have longstanding ties and Narendra Modi’s government has not joined western countries in openly criticising Moscow over the war nor stopped Indian companies trading with Russia.
> *Trade has instead boomed by 413% as India has become one of the biggest purchasers of cheap Russian crude oil and Russian manufacturers increasingly look to India to supply crucial goods that can no longer come from the west.
> 
> The Ukrainian government has in response accused India of giving Vladimir Putin a “loophole” against western sanctions and in a speech this week Volodymyr Zelenskiy, the Ukrainian president, called for India to be “more active” in efforts to end Russian aggression.*
> 
> The Indian leather company Homera Tanning, based in the state of Haryana, was upfront about its dealings with Russia. The company confirmed it was supplying leather hides and leather boot products worth £830,000 each month to Russia and that two of the biggest users of its materials were Donobuv and Vostok, Russian footwear companies that are primary suppliers of boots to the Russian military.
> Publicly available records from 2021 show Donobuv had contracts worth millions of roubles with the Russian government to manufacture military footwear. Russian government procurements are no longer public since the invasion but the company is so important to the war effort that its workers are exempt from conscription.
> 
> “Russia was a regular market like any other market, like China or Europe, but suddenly after the war there was a boost in demand,” said Tahir Rizwan, the director of Homera Tanning. “I think one of the reasons we had this boom was because the west was no longer supplying to them.”
> 
> *Rizwan said the leather sold to Russian companies was a “particular kind of leather, used only for army shoes and for safety shoes for industries like oil and gas”.*
> 
> Russia had accounted for about 10% of business before the war, Rizwan said, but that was now up to about 70%, with Donobuv and Vostok among the biggest customers. Rizwan confirmed his company was now shipping seven or eight containers of leather products, both finished buffalo leather hides and the upper part of the boot, from India to Russia each month.
> 
> According to import and export data, in the five months between May and October, Homera Tanning exported more than £5m worth of leather boots products to Russia.
> 
> Aaisha International, a sister leather company to Homera Tanning that shares executive management, sold £132,000 worth of finished leather directly to Donobuv in August and another £135,000 in October.
> 
> *Since the invasion of Ukraine, India has trodden carefully to balance its ties with both the west and Russia, which supplies about 70% of India’s weapons. But the lure of cheap Russian crude has made India Moscow’s second largest oil customer, with Russia rising to being India’s fifth largest trading partner, up from 25th last year.*
> 
> Indian officials have defended buying oil from Russia, saying the lower price benefits India and the EU buys 10 times more fossil fuels from Russia. *But the flourishing trade between India and Russia has become an increasingly sticky issue in the face of strict sanctions imposed by Europe and the US.*
> 
> Alexandra Vasylenko, the special envoy on sanctions and humanitarian assistance to the Ukrainian foreign minister, said India was among the countries enabling a sanctions loophole for Russia as it “tries to fill in the void left by western companies”.
> 
> “These ongoing transactions are eroding Russia’s international isolation and impeding the Ukrainian people’s efforts to defend their country and global security,” said Vasylenko.
> 
> Leather is just one of the products that Russian companies have been hoping to acquire from India in the face of western sanctions, with Moscow recently sending a list to India of about 500 goods it was looking to import.
> 
> With a growing £16.6bn trade deficit, India is also pushing to export more to Russia. In October, India exported £232m worth of goods to Russia, up 3.7% compared to a year ago, and the Indian foreign minister, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, said it hoped to double trade in the “foreseeable future”.
> 
> Ajay Sahai, the director general of the Federation of Indian Export Organisations, confirmed that Indian exporters were now inundated with requests and queries from Russian businesses that were desperate for the supply of goods, from food products, chemicals and electronics to raw materials and car parts.
> 
> “Russia requires almost everything under the sun,” said Sahai. “The west has stopped exporting to Russia, so they are now looking to the Indian market for what they need.”
> 
> Sahai said he expected India-Russia trade to increase further in 2023. However, he acknowledged that there were “risks and challenges” involved in trading with Russia and said some bigger Indian exporters were hesitant to do business with Russia over fears they could get caught up in western sanctions.
> 
> Rizwan said Homera Tanning had received no pushback for supplying leather goods to Russia, but payments were difficult as very few Indian banks would accept a transfer from Russia and often the payments would bounce.
> 
> A shipping line only goes directly from India to Russia once a month, so it often has to send the leather goods through Turkey and Iran in order to reach Russia. “It’s not so easy or convenient as it was,” he said. “There are a lot of obstacles.”


Is that true. I have paid 300 pounds gas bill in December only apart from Electricity bill.. you not in your sense. No money in NHS. Rail workers health works everyone is on trikes. What the heck you talking about.uk and eu economy is f....k big time. Open your eyes..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608492087879602177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608459760264974339

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608460508604112897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608255581302968320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608196241824923649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608087073977679872

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

A lot of interesting updates..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607533827257147392


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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> There is just one problem I see on this for the Islamic World.
> 
> Where are they going to turn to after this to balance the power of the region??
> 
> There are currently 3 powers that play into each other, the West (US+EU), Russia and China. The thing is, as this war drag on, what do you think Islamic World would see as an alternative to counter the asserted aggression by the West? Russia is thoroughly and utterly defeated in this, I mean, you don't really need to know anything military to know Russia is not doing well in this war. So how would people (not just Muslim) think Russia is a viable candidate to balance the West anymore?? So the remaining option is China, but then one issue tho, China seems to be abandoned Russia probably at their most needed time. I mean, the West, no matter what they did, they supported Ukraine even with the Pressure from Russia, China don't even send their drone to help the Russian or even artillery round or anything, by all account, China is hanging Russia out to dry, and they were supposedly blood brother (or all weather brother) like they proclaim and the longer this war go on, I mean if Russia, being that close (I mean geographically) to China and that powerful counterbalance to the west and still China still wouldn't jump in, why you think the Chinese would jump in and help the Islamic World in their time of needed??
> 
> Say on a hypothetical, if India really go to war or have some sort of border intrusion tomorrow, can Pakistan rely on China support when you guys have 11 months to see China stringing up Russia and withholding their support?
> 
> On the other hand, the longer this war continue, the more expensive the energy needs, the more the West and more likely China would want to seek alternative fuel and energy source, that would mean the single biggest weapon the Middle Eastern world had would lose its power, that being the controlling of fossil fuel. This war had opened people eyes not just on Russian aggression, but also the vulnerability of their energy security, EU was hit particularly hard, while diverting their energy need can nip the short-term issue for now, but the West are going to push for alternative energy abandoning Fossil Fuel probably quicker than all those woke nonsense combine. If you think of it this way, what kind of power Saudi or Qatar would yield if both the West and Chinese step away from fossil fuel??



This is pretty much I been saying for years. I been telling my other members that my country of Indonesia should just full stop join the West. 

Because Russia and china to put it lightly are country filled with degenerates that cared about nothing but themselves.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608838628725370883

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608765444193947648

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## Reashot Xigwin

bobo6661 said:


> So what the full picture ? Russia worked with Nazi for years ... They gave them training ground for new weapon to test and resources. If Germany didn't invite them they would be best buddies till today


Fun fact: Stalin trusted Hitler until he invade him.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Fun fact: Stalin trusted Hitler until he invade him.



Consequently, Germany lost Konigsberg which was annexed by Russia and Japan lost South Sakhalin which was annexed by Russia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608278651220463617

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608989929589338112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608953289273446400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605559652950757376

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## The SC

[ Siege of Bakhmut ] Ukraine 3 towns away frm losing entire Bakhmut: Ivanivske, Pidhorodne & Yahidne​


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606953052556124160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608714935839911936


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608938061567754240


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608841001791295488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608841554097246208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608842222002376704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608842760899145728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608843592210206723

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608843931520991235

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608844486259650563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608844978268278785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608848251989688323

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608848818472357889

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## Reashot Xigwin

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Consequently, Germany lost Konigsberg which was annexed by Russia and Japan lost South Sakhalin which was annexed by Russia.


And Russia will lose everything so what's your point?



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608844486259650563
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608844978268278785
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608848251989688323
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608848818472357889


Ah yes the Bradley my favorite gender. 

Can't wait to see pictures of Rusky shredded to bits by it's Autocannon. 









America’s Tough M2/M3 Bradley Fighting Vehicles Are Perfect For Ukraine Fight


Reports suggest the U.S. government is considering sending M2/M3 Bradley Fighting Vehicles to Ukraine. Here's why the mini-tank may be a perfect solution to hard problem.




www.forbes.com

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## Reashot Xigwin

In here you see a grown man Begging in the international stage.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> In here you see a grown man Begging in the international stage.



China has 10 times the population of Russia. It's huge. Plus, Chinese intelligence and discipline is second to none. With China's backing, Russia can become a power in Europe.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608947882236989441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609048453300260865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608993850953191424


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

When losing blame the Jews... Works everytime.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608853514641633280


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> When losing blame the Jews... Works everytime.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608853514641633280



Jews are pretty popular in Russia. A lot of Jews in high tech sectors in Russia. They are not as smart as Chinese, but they are pretty close.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609051758822854658

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609051396548235264


Reashot Xigwin said:


> And Russia will lose everything so what's your point?



There is no evidence Russia will lose any territory.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Can't wait to see pictures of Rusky shredded to bits by it's Autocannon.



Kornet meat.

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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Jews are pretty popular in Russia. A lot of Jews in high tech sectors in Russia. They are not as smart as Chinese, but they are pretty close.


We are pretty close to you, that's right, close to you from above.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> We are pretty close to you, that's right, close to you from above.



We Chinese can make 28nm chips, C919 airliners, space station, Mars rover, mRNA vaccine, 5G telecom, electric cars. You Israelis cannot.

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## BHAN85

oberschlesier said:


> The Gas prices in Europe are almost like one ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ICE Futures and Options | Product Guide
> 
> 
> Contracts are for physical delivery through the transfer of rights in respect of Natural Gas at the Title Transfer Facility (TTF) Virtual Trading Point, operated by Gasunie Transport Services (GTS), the transmission system operator in the Netherlands. Delivery is made equally each hour...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The level of Gas storage in Europe is at 83% and it is rising(!):
> https://agsi.gie.eu/
> 
> We are freezing without Russian gas ... brrrr



Food prices in Europe are not the same than one year ago.

Gasoline/Diesel decreases price last months/weeks, but food prices keep raising last weeks.

Some examples:
brandless chocolate spread from 1.50 EUR to 1.80 EUR first months of war, and from 1.80 EUR to 2.00 EUR last weeks.
frozen pizza from 1.80 EUR to 2.25 EUR first months of war, and to 2.50 EUR last weeks.
paper tissues from 0.80 EUR one year ago to 1.25 EUR now. (I dont understand well this increase, is it because people are storing the raw material of that item, wood, to burn as emergency heat supply?)
brandless cornmeal from 1.50 EUR one year ago, to 1.75 EUR now.
bread from 1.00 EUR one year ago to 1.25 EUR now.
sunflower oil from 1.50 one year ago to 2.30 EUR now
wheat flour kg from 0.45 one year ago to 0.75 now

And so on.

It's not the end of the world, but it never happened since the currency is EUR.

By the other side, new year eve is a good day to take advantage of drunk soldiers.

This advice can be taken by the two sides. Because both have same traditions.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> We Chinese can make 28nm chips, C919 airliners, space station, Mars rover, mRNA vaccine, 5G telecom, electric cars. You Israelis cannot.


Jews design and also create the most advanced 10nm desktop chips and design other more advanced chips as well








‘Every Die Wants to Live’: Inside Fab 28, Intel’s Elite Chip-Making Site


We traveled to Israel for a rare look inside the facility—and clean room!—that churns out Intel’s most advanced 10nm processors. Come on in.




www.pcmag.com













Intel unveils Israel-developed Raptor Lake processors







en.globes.co.il













Apple to Develop Future Mac Chips in Israel


Apple is opening a new development site in Jerusalem, Israel, to develop new Apple silicon chips for future Macs. Elad Wertheimer, responsible for...




www.macrumors.com













Intel's Thunderbolt 4, developed in Israel, enhances connectivity







en.globes.co.il





Jews are among the best engineers in Airbus and Boeing, best engineers in NASA (have the Chinese landed a man on the moon yet?) , Dr. Drew Weissman (Jew) and Katalin Karikó were the ones that developed the mRNA technology that enabled the creation of the vaccine and the owner of Pfizer is Jewish.

Sure 5G and electric cars had their own contribution.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> Jews design and also create the most advanced 10nm desktop chips and design other more advanced chips as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Every Die Wants to Live’: Inside Fab 28, Intel’s Elite Chip-Making Site
> 
> 
> We traveled to Israel for a rare look inside the facility—and clean room!—that churns out Intel’s most advanced 10nm processors. Come on in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pcmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel unveils Israel-developed Raptor Lake processors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.globes.co.il
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apple to Develop Future Mac Chips in Israel
> 
> 
> Apple is opening a new development site in Jerusalem, Israel, to develop new Apple silicon chips for future Macs. Elad Wertheimer, responsible for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.macrumors.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel's Thunderbolt 4, developed in Israel, enhances connectivity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.globes.co.il
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are among the best engineers in Airbus and Boeing, best engineers in NASA (have the Chinese landed a man on the moon yet?) , Dr. Drew Weissman (Jew) and Katalin Karikó were the ones that developed the mRNA technology that enabled the creation of the vaccine and the owner of Pfizer is Jewish.
> 
> Sure 5G and electric cars had their own contribution.



When China was a great civilization Anglos were living in mud huts. While it is true China fell behind after thousands of years of isolation, we are catching up. And there is only so many years Anglos can maintain their lead over China. Not even Anglos can make a transistor smaller than a silicon atom. It won't be long before Chinese catches up. Don't forget, we Chinese are the most intelligent people on the planet. Thousands of years of peace in China have bred the most intelligent people on the planet.

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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> When China was a great civilization Anglos were living in mud huts. While it is true China fell behind after thousands of years of isolation, we are catching up. And there is only so many years Anglos can maintain their lead over China. Not even Anglos can make a transistor smaller than a silicon atom. It won't be long before Chinese catches up. Don't forget, we Chinese are the most intelligent people on the planet. Thousands of years of peace in China have bred the most intelligent people on the planet.


You factually aren't, Ashkenazi Jews are.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> You factually aren't, Ashkenazi Jews are.



Chinese are the most intelligent people on the planet. There is no comparison. Thousands of years of peace in China evolved men who have very little testosterone and therefore are the most intelligent. It is human biology.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605615536108294144

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608566127289933825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608230366745341952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608207232113557513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607626340252909568

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## Viet

What’s up at Bakhmut?

The Wagner hooligans since 6 months run against Ukraine artillery like suicide lemmings. Now be much decimated that they can no longer mount great attacks. Putin sends regular Russia paratroopers to help them out. Quite embarrassing for Prigozhin. He wanted his Wagner group to conquer Bakhmut.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> What’s up at Bakhmut?
> 
> The Wagner hooligans since 6 months run against Ukraine artillery like suicide lemmings. Now be much decimated that they can no longer mount great attacks. Putin sends regular Russia paratroopers to help them out. Quite embarrassing for Prigozhin. He initially wanted his Wagner group to conquer Bakhmut.



It's only been 6 months. This is a decades long war. It hasn't even started in earnest yet.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> It's only been 6 months. This is a decades long war. It hasn't even started in earnest yet.


Hopefully not. Assume this war is over in 3 years, 10,000 deaths per month, 300,000 Russians will be dead when this stupid war is over. Putin is the hangman of Russia. He has participated with 300,000 own deaths. Life seems not much worth in Russia.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Hopefully not. Assume this war is over in 3 years, 10,000 deaths per month, 300,000 Russians will be dead when this stupid war is over. Putin is the hangman of Russia.


Last time he said the term "forever" is when he said Kherson is forever Russian, and that forever lasted 7 months......


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Hopefully not. Assume this war is over in 3 years, 10,000 deaths per month, 300,000 Russians will be dead when this stupid war is over. Putin is the hangman of Russia.



War increases birth rate. Human biology. War has been a boon for Russian demographics.

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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese are the most intelligent people on the planet. There is no comparison. Thousands of years of peace in China evolved men who have very little testosterone and therefore are the most intelligent. It is human biology.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605615536108294144









And other stuides show an even bigger gap

Peace?

















Your history of wars is beyond even European comprehension.

Having low testosterone is nothing to be proud of lol

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Last time he said the term "forever" is when he said Kherson is forever Russian, and that forever lasted 7 months......



Kherson east of Dnipr river is Russian for the foreseeable future. I'm talking decades if not centuries.



Beny Karachun said:


> View attachment 908579
> 
> 
> And other stuides show an even bigger gap
> 
> Peace?
> View attachment 908580
> View attachment 908581
> View attachment 908582
> View attachment 908583
> View attachment 908584
> 
> 
> Your history of wars is beyond even European comprehension.
> 
> Having low testosterone is nothing to be proud of lol



Intelligence isn't measured by a number. Intelligence has many factors. Did you know even hair color is determined by hundreds of genes?









Study identifies more than a hundred new genes that determine hair color


Scientists have discovered 124 genes that play a major role in determining human hair color variation.



www.sciencedaily.com

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## jhungary

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Kherson east of Dnipr river is Russian for the foreseeable future. I'm talking decades if not centuries.
> 
> 
> 
> Intelligence isn't measured by a number. Intelligence has many factors.


dude, just give it a rest, you have been banned here longer than Kherson being Russia.......

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> War increases birth rate. Human biology. War has been a boon for Russian demographics.


That’s why Putin sets up a sperm bank?


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> That’s why Putin sets up a sperm bank?


Or maybe he just love sperm (Can't use the word I want, start with C and ends with M.)


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> That’s why Putin sets up a sperm bank?



Every day since dawn of humanity 200,000 years ago there is war somewhere in the world. Before 1945 there were always widespread war. Humans evolved in war. Other than humans, only chimps have documented war. That's why human birth rate is high when there is war. Humans evolved that way.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Or maybe he just love sperm (Can't use the word I want, start with C and ends with M.)


Lol that will lead to a warming from mods here.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Thousands of years of peace in China evolved men who have very little testosterone and therefore are the most intelligent. It is human biology.


Having little testosterone might have an impact on intelligence but most likely a negative impact, since it's shown that having low testosterone in men increases depression and other bad symptoms which negatively impact intelligence.

Also if we follow your logic some random woman from Somalia will have higher IQ than the smartest Chinese professor because she naturally has less testosterone. Which is obviously nonsense.


Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Intelligence isn't measured by a number. Intelligence has many factors. Did you know even hair color is determined by hundreds of genes?


Everything measurable can be measured by numbers, numbers by definition exist to measure stuff. 

Intelligence has many factors, all of which can be measured in numbers, that's why IQ tests exist, they measure certain aspects of your intelligence. 

And yeah, I know, genes deternine every trait we have.

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## S10

Beny Karachun said:


> View attachment 908579
> 
> 
> And other stuides show an even bigger gap
> 
> Peace?
> View attachment 908580
> View attachment 908581
> View attachment 908582
> View attachment 908583
> View attachment 908584
> 
> 
> Your history of wars is beyond even European comprehension.
> 
> Having low testosterone is nothing to be proud of lol


HAH you don't even make top 40.








Countries by IQ - Average IQ by Country 2022










IQ: Intelligence quotient by country


A global comparison of intelligence in relation to temperature, income and education expenditures.




www.worlddata.info





Speaking of getting owned, certain people got enslaved by Egyptians, steamrolled by Romans and oven baked by Germans.

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## Beny Karachun

S10 said:


> HAH you don't even make top 30.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IQ: Intelligence quotient by country
> 
> 
> A global comparison of intelligence in relation to temperature, income and education expenditures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worlddata.info


Israel's population is 30 percent non-Jewish but Arab, I am talking about Jews.

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## S10

Beny Karachun said:


> Israel's population is 30 percent non-Jewish but Arab, I am talking about Jews.


Sure blame the Arabs like you do with all your life problems.

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## Beny Karachun

S10 said:


> Speaking of getting owned, certain people got enslaved by Egyptians, steamrolled by Romans and oven baked by Germans.


We outlived them all and turned their predecessors into our b*tches



S10 said:


> Sure blame the Arabs like you do with all your life problems.


Come on, post the statistics about IQ by race and not nationality, since @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen was talking about Jews being a bit less intelligent than Chinese.

I dare you


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## S10

Beny Karachun said:


> We outlived them all and turned their predecessors into our b*tches


The only bitch is your apartheid state expecting handouts worldwide for getting gassed 70 years ago. Next time try to cobble together a government that doesn't collapse every 2 years before you brag.


Beny Karachun said:


> Come on, post the statistics about IQ by race and not nationality, since @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen was talking about Jews being a bit less intelligent than Chinese.
> 
> I dare you


If you're any indication as an average Jew, then it's a really pessimistic outlook. Unless you're way below average, which also makes sense.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russian Priest class. Giving magical enchantment to Jet Bomber.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608763052291395585

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## Beny Karachun

S10 said:


> The only bitch is your apartheid state expecting handouts worldwide for getting gassed 70 years ago. Next time try to cobble together a government that doesn't collapse every 2 years before you brag.
> 
> If you're any indication as an average Jew, then it's a really pessimistic outlook. Unless you're way below average, which also makes sense.


Lol, our state is the model of militaries around the world and even the great and capable China had to resort to buy weapons and get training by Israeli soldiers. 

Sorry that we aren't a dictatorship like China. Thankfully we elected a new government that's going to be very stable and very successful.

I believe I'm smarter than most Chinese people myself lol, by profession, by IQ, by general knowledge. Way more athletic than most people in general as well. 

But that doesn't matter, come on, show me some IQ by race statistics

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## S10

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol, our state is the model of militaries around the world and even the great and capable China had to resort to buy weapons and get training by Israeli soldiers.
> 
> Sorry that we aren't a dictatorship like China. Thankfully we elected a new government that's going to be very stable and very successful.
> 
> I believe I'm smarter than most Chinese people myself lol, by profession, by IQ, by general knowledge. Way more athletic than most people in general as well.
> 
> But that doesn't matter, come on, show me some IQ by race statistics


Yeah too bad Hezbollah popped the illusion of your great military. Now all you're good for is fighting Hamas and bulldozing Palestinian homes. You only looked good because the Arab militaries were a disorganized mess.

You can believe you're Jesus for all I care. I can't argue with your delusions and feelings. As far as your IQ, the onus is on you to provide the data should you make the claim. As a society, you can't even crack top 40 in the world. Pretty sure I provided my links for that.

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## Beny Karachun

S10 said:


> Yeah too bad Hezbollah popped the illusion of your great military. Now all you're good for is fighting Hamas and bulldozing Palestinian homes. You only looked good because the Arab militaries were a disorganized mess.
> 
> You can believe you're Jesus for all I care. I can't argue with your delusions and feelings. As far as your IQ, the onus is on you to provide the data should you make the claim. As a society, you can't even crack top 40 in the world. Pretty sure I provided my links for that.


I did provide it, scroll up


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## S10

Beny Karachun said:


> I did provide it, scroll up


You provided a picture which could have been drawn in MS paint. I provided 2 links.

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## Beny Karachun

S10 said:


> As a society, you can't even crack top 40 in the world


Yeah, because we aren't a homogeneous society like China lol, we have many non Jews

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## PakFactor

Can we get back to this European conflict, please? The semantic rats can create another thread.

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## Beny Karachun

S10 said:


> You provided a picture which could have been drawn in MS paint. I provided 2 links.


A Jewish average IQ of 115 is 8 points higher than the generally accepted IQ of their closest rivals — Northeast Asians — and approximately 40% higher than the global average IQ of 79.1 calculated by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen in IQ and Global Inequity.









Why Is The IQ of Ashkenazi Jews So High? — twenty possible explanations


Ashkenazi Jews are smart. Shockingly brilliant, in general. Impressive in brain power. How did they get that way?




hankpellissier.medium.com


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## S10

Beny Karachun said:


> A Jewish average IQ of 115 is 8 points higher than the generally accepted IQ of their closest rivals — Northeast Asians — and approximately 40% higher than the global average IQ of 79.1 calculated by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen in IQ and Global Inequity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Is The IQ of Ashkenazi Jews So High? — twenty possible explanations
> 
> 
> Ashkenazi Jews are smart. Shockingly brilliant, in general. Impressive in brain power. How did they get that way?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hankpellissier.medium.com


So only a specific sub-group of Jews that live outside of Israel? Way to cherry pick the population. That's like cherry picking Beijing and Shanghai then telling everyone China is smarter than Singapore overall.


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## Beny Karachun

S10 said:


> So only a specific sub-group of Jews that live outside of Israel? Way to cherry pick the population. That's like cherry picking Beijing and Shanghai then telling everyone China is smarter than Singapore overall.
> 
> View attachment 908586


80 percent of Jews in the world are Ashkenazi Jews, not a very "specific subgroup"

I don't read Chinese, but if what's written there says Chinese people have 115.3 IQ and Jews have 114.1, the first figure is wrong lol


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## patero

Beny Karachun said:


> Intelligence has many factors, all of which can be measured in numbers, that's why IQ tests exist, they measure certain aspects of your intelligence.


Conceptual intelligence can be approximated by the use of IQ tests, although they are very biased towards certain functions. Conceptual intelligence gives us our capacity to arrange/rearrange and process data, but is very limited compared to the power of abstract or non-conceptual intelligence which cannot be measured. This gives us our capacity to create new ideas. Many believe that abstract intelligence connects us directly to 'the source', which depending on your belief structure can be intepreted as 'god' or universal consciousness.

The best example in history of a person who would have by all accounts underperformed in a IQ test, but possessed extremely high abstract intelligence was Einstein. He was operating at such a deep abstract level at a very young age he bypassed the need for language, and was mistaked for being intellectually impaired as a child (he was also misdiagnosed as dyslexic). To develop the deepest understanding of any field, one needs to move beyond the realm of language and concepts and into the deeper abstract realms. Many do exactly this without realizing it.


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## Beny Karachun

patero said:


> Conceptual intelligence can be approximated by the use of IQ tests, although they are very biased towards certain functions. Conceptual intelligence gives us our capacity to arrange/rearrange and process data, but is very limited compared to the power of abstract or non-conceptual intelligence which cannot be measured. This gives us our capacity to create new ideas. Many believe that abstract intelligence connects us directly to 'the source', which depending on your belief structure can be intepreted as 'god' or universal consciousness.
> 
> The best example in history of a person who would have by all accounts underperformed in a IQ test, but possessed extremely high abstract intelligence was Einstein. He was operating at such a deep abstract level at a very young age he bypassed the need for language, and was mistaked for being intellectually impaired as a child (he was also misdiagnosed as dyslexic). To develop the deepest understanding of any field, one needs to move beyond the realm of language and concepts and into the deeper abstract realms. Many do exactly this without realizing it.


Yeah Einstein was really smart and I always felt like his IQ score somehow belittled him in front of much less significant figures.

Btw, @S10 @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen , Einstein was Jewish.



patero said:


> To develop the deepest understanding of any field, one needs to move beyond the realm of language and concepts and into the deeper abstract realms. Many do exactly this without realizing it.


How would one try to do that?

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## patero

Beny Karachun said:


> Yeah Einstein was really smart and I always felt like his IQ score somehow belittled him in front of much less significant figures.
> 
> Btw, @S10 @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen , Einstein was Jewish.
> 
> 
> How would one try to do that?


It can happen naturally over a long period of time as a person masters their field. But there are also certain practices in some religious and spiritual traditions that can be used to enhance abstract thought processes. Zen masters for example put their students through such exercises. One I did involved placing a random object in my hand and spending hours contemplating the object; its form, its function, its very essence. But the objective of the exercise was to do this without applying any words to that object. Much harder than it sounds. But it is one of many exercises designed to enhance abstract understanding. There are similar practices I believe in the more mystic/esoteric branches of judaism (Kabbalah), Sufism, gnostic christian traditions etc.

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## Reashot Xigwin

A reminder that Russians are not normal.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608520025882886145

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## Beny Karachun

patero said:


> It can happen naturally over a long period of time as a person masters their field. But there are also certain practices in some religious and spiritual traditions that can be used to enhance abstract thought processes. Zen masters for example put their students through such exercises. One I did involved placing a random object in my hand and spending hours contemplating the object; its form, its function, its very essence. But the objective of the exercise was to do this without applying any words to that object. Much harder than it sounds. But it is one of many exercises designed to enhance abstract understanding. There are similar practices I believe in the more mystic/esoteric branches of judaism (Kabbalah), Sufism, gnostic christian traditions etc.


I kinda get what you're saying. Most of the time when I study concepts, in example when I first studied recursion, I understood it not by words, but by something hard to explain in words. There's sort of what I could only describe a "waterfall" feeling/vision in my mind.

When I first studied functions in discrete math I did it by developing a "feeling" for injective/surjective functions. 

And now I'm doing a bunch of cyber security stuff and I am yet again starting to develop the same feelings in my mind the more I practice it, to the point I know something is right or exactly how to do something simply by the way my mind feels, but if I had to teach someone the subject it would be difficult for me to describe the ways I work, I feel like only I could really make sense of it.


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## TopGun786

Dude if this seems funny to you then you haven't seen Indians yet. Now, here I don't know if Russians learned from Indians or if Indians learned these things from Russians. 



S10 said:


> As a society, you can't even crack top 40 in the world.


They are not even a society. They are a bunch of thugs messing in the middle east until their masters keep throwing dollars at them on daily bases. A little slip from their masters and they will vanish forever.

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## LeGenD

Now that members are discussing societal IQ levels, can somebody shine the light on the IQ level of following:

1. Russia
2. Ukraine
3. Putin
4. Zelensky

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## Beny Karachun

LeGenD said:


> Now that members are discussing societal IQ levels, can somebody shine the light on the IQ level of following:
> 
> 1. Russia
> 2. Ukraine


Yes sure.
Every piece of weaponry, space, radar electronic technology in the USSR was mostly the product of Jewish engineers.

@S10 @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen When the Jews left the USSR/Russia/Ukraine, so did their level of scientific achievement.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608811444656607236

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608970012672536576

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## Ali_Baba

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> War increases birth rate. Human biology. War has been a boon for Russian demographics.



Welcome back Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen. I was worried for a while you had left this forum and denied us the pearls of your wisdom.

I am looking forward to how your tales of "russian women should be opening their legs" to be mounted by their russian men to make babies will help the russians win this war ( we need a bit of humour on this thread after all).

The last time a dictator(hitler) tried that routine to create an "aryan master race" - it did not end well for that dictator. I somehow dont see it ending well for this new dictator(putin) to try and create a new master "slavic race" ending well either if they were to follow your advice ...

but - dont let me discourage you !!!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> Yes sure.
> Every piece of weaponry, space, radar electronic technology in the USSR was mostly the product of Jewish engineers.
> 
> @S10 @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen When the Jews left the USSR/Russia/Ukraine, so did their level of scientific achievement.



There is no genetic difference between Russian Jews and Russian non Jews.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609146670444322820

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> Yeah Einstein was really smart and I always felt like his IQ score somehow belittled him in front of much less significant figures.
> 
> Btw, @S10 @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen , Einstein was Jewish.



Einstein is overrated. Russia also has scientists.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609161366035914754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609161893633003521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609140426367197189

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609147702050230273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608780569718185987

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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Einstein is overrated. Russia also has scientists.


If Einstein is overrated then what are all of the Chinese physicists and scientists that have their work based on his?



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> There is no genetic difference between Russian Jews and Russian non Jews.


Of course there is, Jews are easily identifiable, we Jews can identify who is Jewish and who is not.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> If Einstein is overrated then what are all of the Chinese physicists and scientists that have their work based on his?



Indians invented 0. Without 0, there is no digital computer.


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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It was Russia (Soviet Union) and Germany that started WWII by the invasion of Poland.
> Now Russia is the only one to blame for this war.


Well UK declared war on Germany for invading Poland but did not declare war on russia for invading Poland. So UK just wanted to start a war, and it did. 

whose fault was that? Its the UK's fault. 

It would be like Germany declaring war on UK in 1905 for the British Invasion of Kenya. 

Today, well, there is no right or wrong in such international affairs. Russia is trying to resurrect its empire just like UK tried to do it when it invaded Egypt in the 1950's. Russia is entitled to try this. Its having a good go of it, ultimately we all hope it fails because its not in our interests. 

There is no right or wrong about it, The big powers make the rules and break them as they see fit.


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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Indians invented 0. Without 0, there is no digital computer.


Correct, and the dude that invented 0, was not "overrated"


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> Correct, and the dude that invented 0, was not "overrated"



0 is obviously a far bigger accomplishment than anything Einstein ever accomplished. Hell, I would even rate Planck, Schroedinger over Einstein.


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## Beny Karachun

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 0 is obviously a far bigger accomplishment than anything Einstein ever accomplished. Hell, I would even rate Planck, Schroedinger over Einstein.


Yeah, that's why you don't call people science is based on "overrated"


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## thetutle

kingQamaR said:


> Russia has shown its true self to the world here. The biggest question now is; was Russia ever really a true superpower? Russian ineptitude and weakness is staggering, here for the whole world to see. The only thing they have is to threaten the world with their nukes, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they also turned out to be much less than the sum of their parts.


USSR was never a real superpower that could rival the US. The US could have won a nuclear war against them throughout the whole Cold War. There was not a single russian submarine that was not tracked during its entire deployment. 

JFK was ready to start a nuclear war with USSR because those cuban missiles were probably the only ones that could have hit the US in any great number. 

USSR's military strength was embellished by the US military industrial complex in order to get more and more money. 

US is like 60 years ahead of russia in military tech. What russia has now, US basically had in the 1970's. 

And here is the scary thing. Russian weapons are more advanced than that of china. Many people are only now figuring this out.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> USSR was never a real superpower that could rival the US. The US could have won a nuclear war against them throughout the whole Cold War. There was not a single russian submarine that was not tracked during its entire deployment.
> 
> JFK was ready to start a nuclear war with USSR because those cuban missiles were probably the only ones that could have hit the US in any great number.
> 
> USSR's military strength was embellished by the US military industrial complex in order to get more and more money.
> 
> US is like 60 years ahead of russia in military tech. What russia has now, US basically had in the 1970's.
> 
> And here is the scary thing. Russian weapons are more advanced than that of china. Many people are only now figuring this out.



Russian people love to live a simple life, like Amish. Americans live with a lot of electronics. American birth rate is low due to electronics killing off sperm and eggs. Technology is a double edged sword. No high tech society can survive for long. Only simple societies can last long.

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Welcome back Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen. I was worried for a while you had left this forum and denied us the pearls of your wisdom.
> 
> I am looking forward to how your tales of "russian women should be opening their legs" to be mounted by their russian men to make babies will help the russians win this war ( we need a bit of humour on this thread after all).
> 
> The last time a dictator(hitler) tried that routine to create an "aryan master race" - it did not end well for that dictator. I somehow dont see it ending well for this new dictator(putin) to try and create a new master "slavic race" ending well either if they were to follow your advice ...
> 
> but - dont let me discourage you !!!


well, any more of that he is gonna be ban longer than this war......

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> well, any more of that he is gonna be ban longer than this war......



This war lasts longer than how long you will live.


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> There are a lot of stuff US don't need or use they can send to Ukraine to deal with Russia, all those comes with minimal training required.
> 
> Bradley (US have around 250 stored somewhere not used and not in strategic reserve)
> M109A6 (US have at least 450 stored and not used)
> M60 Patton (US have 1000+ serviceable M60 in storage, waiting to be converted to target (Which mean it's going to be destroyed anyway) and already retired.)
> M270 (US have around 200 M270 Marine retired when they fielded HIMARS.)
> M113 (US have 4000+ M113 of all variants in storage, retired and waiting to be scraped)
> M1128 Stryker MGS (US have retired the entire M1128 MGS just this year, there are 140 of those)
> 
> If US send all these to Ukriane, that is enough for the Ukrainian to mount an offensive. And that's just retired stuff, not stuff that we still use and can be spared, and that just US. I don't understand why US and EU are holding on to those old stock to begin with. The rationale is that you may need that for a conventional war with a near peer enemy, which is Russia, which is basically what these article being store in reserve is for, for them to fight Russia, then why not send them to Ukraine so they can do what they were stored to do??


Send Ukraine 1,000 Pattons and 4,000 M113's, youre kidding? The rationale is more likely that noone wants to see Ukraine become a regional power. Its already probably the strongest army in Europe apart from Russia. I mean who could beat Ukraine in a fight now? British? French? I dont think so. Maybe British with the F35's but they still lack land forces to beat Ukraine. 

The trick is to defeat russia without creating a ukranian monster.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Send Ukraine 1,000 Pattons and 4,000 M113's, youre kidding? The rationale is more likely that noone wants to see Ukraine become a regional power. Its already probably the strongest army in Europe apart from Russia. I mean who could beat Ukraine in a fight now? British? French? I dont think so. Maybe British with the F35's but they still lack land forces to beat Ukraine.
> 
> The trick is to defeat russia without creating a ukranian monster.



Ukraine cannot be trusted by the West. If Zelensky is ousted from power and a pro Russian man becomes president Ukraine will be enemy of the West. In the 1970s Iran was a top US ally then after the Shah was ousted Iran became enemy.

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## Stranagor

Ukraine turning the tables on Russia, close to using 'strike drones' to counter attacks: Live updates


Ukrainian officials have made veiled references to using their own drones in attacks on Russian military bases in recent weeks. Live updates.



www.usatoday.com





Ukraine turning the tables on Russia, close to using 'strike drones' to counter attacks

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Stranagor said:


> Ukraine turning the tables on Russia, close to using 'strike drones' to counter attacks: Live updates
> 
> 
> Ukrainian officials have made veiled references to using their own drones in attacks on Russian military bases in recent weeks. Live updates.
> 
> 
> 
> www.usatoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine turning the tables on Russia, close to using 'strike drones' to counter attacks



I wonder if Ukraine can source production of Tu-141 to Germany or the US? That way they can build thousands of Tu-141 upgraded with GPS to bomb Moscow and turn Moscow into rubble.

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## Soldier35

The Ukrainian army began to actively use the American FIM-92 Stinger DMS MANPADS with two launch containers. Previously, these units were received from Lithuania. In this case, Stinger DMS is used from an HMMWV armored vehicle. Installations are also used in a stationary version. The height of the destruction of targets by MANPADS FIM-92 is up to 3800 meters, at a distance of up to 8000 meters, if the missile is launched to catch up with the target, then up to 4750 meters. MANPADS Stinger has proven itself in many military conflicts. The cost of MANPADS Stinger is about 100 thousand dollars.






Point-blank battle of the T-80 tank in Ukraine. Video of the combat operation of the Russian T-80BVM tank in Ukraine. The T-80 tank is sent to help the blocked Russian group. The crew of the tank, risking, comes close to the positions of the Ukrainian army and begins to suppress the firing points. When retreating, they begin to fire at the tank from a heavy machine gun of a unit of the Ukrainian army.






Video of about 50 TM-62 anti-tank mines detonated on the road by the Ukrainian army. The TM-62 anti-tank mine was put into service in 1962, the explosive mass is 8 kilograms.






Rare footage has emerged of Ukrainian air defense attacks on the Russian Supercam S350 UAV. First, the Russian UAV was attacked by a missile, it flew past, then fire from anti-aircraft artillery was opened at the flying UAV. Despite the damage, the UAV continued to fly.






The state of multi-purpose army vehicles Iveco VM 90, sent from Italy as part of military assistance to Ukraine, is shown. According to an eyewitness, the cars are restored and sent to Ukraine. Army vehicles VM90 have been produced in Italy since 1978 in various modifications, more than 11,000 units were made in total, now Italy is selling them. The crew of the armored vehicle is 2 people and 4 paratroopers. Speed 100 km.h, cruising range 600 km. Armament: 1 machine gun caliber 7, 62mm, armor thickness 6mm.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609185078500003840

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> There is just one problem I see on this for the Islamic World.
> 
> Where are they going to turn to after this to balance the power of the region??
> 
> There are currently 3 powers that play into each other, the West (US+EU), Russia and China. The thing is, as this war drag on, what do you think Islamic World would see as an alternative to counter the asserted aggression by the West? Russia is thoroughly and utterly defeated in this, I mean, you don't really need to know anything military to know Russia is not doing well in this war. So how would people (not just Muslim) think Russia is a viable candidate to balance the West anymore?? So the remaining option is China, but then one issue tho, China seems to be abandoned Russia probably at their most needed time. I mean, the West, no matter what they did, they supported Ukraine even with the Pressure from Russia, China don't even send their drone to help the Russian or even artillery round or anything, by all account, China is hanging Russia out to dry, and they were supposedly blood brother (or all weather brother) like they proclaim and the longer this war go on, I mean if Russia, being that close (I mean geographically) to China and that powerful counterbalance to the west and still China still wouldn't jump in, why you think the Chinese would jump in and help the Islamic World in their time of needed??


The West, China and Russia are all mortal enemies of the muslim world. The muslims will not pick any of them. The best the muslims can gain is to not be attacked for a while and pick off the corpse of the Failed Russian empire. Central Asia being free and caucasus being free. 

Alternatively, if Russia is weakened, it will still stay strong and if it incorporates central asian republics after it loses in ukriane, then muslims can hope to have a greater influence in russia by being russian citizens. One day assimilate russia into its own civilisation. Russia is already 15% muslim. And will increase more and more now. 

China we all know about. shocking treatment of muslims. Another corpse to pick off if it makes the mistake of fighting with the west. 

The west is too strong, but is its own worst enemy. It has no ideology that can rival the muslims. So long term it will destroy itself. 



jhungary said:


> Say on a hypothetical, if India really go to war or have some sort of border intrusion tomorrow, can Pakistan rely on China support when you guys have 11 months to see China stringing up Russia and withholding their support?


No, no one can rely on china. Thats why Pakistan has nukes to eliminate India as a civilisation if necessary. This suits china just fine. Also the west does not care about a billion Indians. Wont even make front page news. 



jhungary said:


> On the other hand, the longer this war continue, the more expensive the energy needs, the more the West and more likely China would want to seek alternative fuel and energy source, that would mean the single biggest weapon the Middle Eastern world had would lose its power, that being the controlling of fossil fuel. This war had opened people eyes not just on Russian aggression, but also the vulnerability of their energy security, EU was hit particularly hard, while diverting their energy need can nip the short-term issue for now, but the West are going to push for alternative energy abandoning Fossil Fuel probably quicker than all those woke nonsense combine. If you think of it this way, what kind of power Saudi or Qatar would yield if both the West and Chinese step away from fossil fuel??


Went cant move away from fossil fuels. only was is nuclear and the citizens wont allow it. And tis too expensive. It would lead to de-industrialisation. Fossil fuels are here to stay. don't believe the hype.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609184192772071425


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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> Send Ukraine 1,000 Pattons and 4,000 M113's, youre kidding? The rationale is more likely that noone wants to see Ukraine become a regional power. Its already probably the strongest army in Europe apart from Russia. I mean who could beat Ukraine in a fight now? British? French? I dont think so. Maybe British with the F35's but they still lack land forces to beat Ukraine.
> 
> The trick is to defeat russia without creating a ukranian monster.


US Pattons are actually pretty advanced, fitted with thermal sights and ERA.

M113s won't do much for Ukraine.

Ukrainian "monster" will not exist and Ukraine will side with Europe, it's not a threat, don't delude others into thinking Ukraine will turn on Europe.


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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> US Pattons are actually pretty advanced, fitted with thermal sights and ERA.
> 
> M113s won't do much for Ukraine.
> 
> Ukrainian "monster" will not exist and Ukraine will side with Europe, it's not a threat, don't delude others into thinking Ukraine will turn on Europe.


No one in the west knows this for sure. Look at Iran. Noone wants another Iran. I love ukraine, I wish them all the best. But at the end of the day, they are a slavic othodox country with surnames not even I could distinguish from the Russian names. 

We dont know who will rule Ukraine tomorrow, Does the anglo empire want a second slavic orthodox power in europe? No way. Thats why they will get weapons in dribs and drabs and destroy russia slowly at great expense to Ukraine. And when Ukraine is rebuilt, it will be rebuilt with western money and west will one everything. The slavs will he in a position hitler advocated. 

"they will need to be just literate enough to read our roadsigns so they dont get hit by German cars". 

Anglo empire think the same way, but are just more subtle about it.


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> People here talk of the "Bakhmut meat grinder" but the only meat grinder we see there are the Russians dying in waves after being sent in frontal attacks. And all this for Putin's imperialistic dreams.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608769659532369925


This is like a horror movie. I wonder if this guy made it?


----------



## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> Okay so what other act started WW2 if not Russia's and Germany's invasion of Poland?


UK's unjustified declaration of war on Germany. If it wasn't for Poland, they would find another excuse, Churchill was determined to destroy Germany as it was the only country that Britain saw as a threat. USSR was deemed too backwards to be a threat to anyone. The brits really feared Germany and rightly so.

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## Reashot Xigwin

thetutle said:


> Send Ukraine 1,000 Pattons and 4,000 M113's, youre kidding? The rationale is more likely that noone wants to see Ukraine become a regional power. Its already probably the strongest army in Europe apart from Russia. I mean who could beat Ukraine in a fight now? British? French? I dont think so. Maybe British with the F35's but they still lack land forces to beat Ukraine.
> 
> The trick is to defeat russia without creating a ukranian monster.


No. The trick is to prolong the war while preventing a Ukrainian steamrolling the entire Russian armed forces. 

A quick victory benefits no one in the long run. Let alone the Ukrainian. The more Russians get dragged into this quamire. The better it is. More Russians get killed the more unstable Russia become.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609194679026720785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609190319932805121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609199083050225664


Beny Karachun said:


> US Pattons are actually pretty advanced, fitted with thermal sights and ERA.



Patton breaks down easily without proper servicing. Patton will only be supplied if American troops embed themselves with Ukrainian troops and that puts them in danger. If American body bags come home, Biden lose election.



Beny Karachun said:


> Ukrainian "monster" will not exist and Ukraine will side with Europe, it's not a threat, don't delude others into thinking Ukraine will turn on Europe.



Iran was arguably America's top ally in the 70s. Hell, F-14 was exported only to Iran. And Iran turned on America. What makes you think Ukraine won't turn on America the way Russia did? Russia was a top US ally in the 90s.

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> When China was a great civilization Anglos were living in mud huts. While it is true China fell behind after thousands of years of isolation, we are catching up. And there is only so many years Anglos can maintain their lead over China. Not even Anglos can make a transistor smaller than a silicon atom. It won't be long before Chinese catches up. Don't forget, we Chinese are the most intelligent people on the planet. Thousands of years of peace in China have bred the most intelligent people on the planet.


So intelligent 40 million of you died of starvation 50 years ago. during peacetime.

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> No. The trick is to prolong the war while preventing a Ukrainian steamrolling the entire Russian armed forces.
> 
> A quick victory benefits no one in the long run. Let alone the Ukrainian. The more Russians get dragged into this quamire. The better it is. More Russians get killed the more unstable Russia become.


Every day this war continues brings Russia closer to slavery.


----------



## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> You factually aren't, Ashkenazi Jews are.


So smart you travelled the world couchsurfing for 2,000 years.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604702991310807041


thetutle said:


> So intelligent 40 million of you died of starvation 50 years ago. during peacetime.



Fake.

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## kingQamaR

Germany under a mad regime started WW2 along with their allies the Soviet Union. Only difference is Germany were driven out of their ill gotten gains, Russia kept theirs and expanded their brutal rule. WW2 only ended for Poland really in 1990


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609180990538223617

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Germany under a mad regime started WW2 along with their allies the Soviet Union. Only difference is Germany were driven out of their ill gotten gains, Russia kept theirs and expanded their brutal rule. WW2 only ended for Poland really in 1990



Germans and Russians same genes. Same brutality. Only we Chinese people are peaceful.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Send Ukraine 1,000 Pattons and 4,000 M113's, youre kidding? The rationale is more likely that noone wants to see Ukraine become a regional power. Its already probably the strongest army in Europe apart from Russia. I mean who could beat Ukraine in a fight now? British? French? I dont think so. Maybe British with the F35's but they still lack land forces to beat Ukraine.
> 
> The trick is to defeat russia without creating a ukranian monster.


You can't send 1000 Patton and 4000 modernized M113 APC, Ukraine won't have enough soldier to use them. 

What I was saying is that Ukraine needed some of those influx to get their edge over Russia. Because Russia have a lot of them. Of that list, only 40 or so M109 was sent and only around 200 M113 and 20 HIMARS was sent, that was way under par. 

And if you ask me, the West has already armed Ukraine to the teeth, I mean you have a regiment of HIMARS and couple with a few unit of NASAM and the upcoming Patriot, all that had way pass the point of no return for the west, you may as well have a bulk of old US stuff to go with.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> This war lasts longer than how long you will live.


Tell me that after the next time you served you ban........

LOL


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609160804313473024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609186758918393860

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609176491492876296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609176584690307072

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608809779396476928


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609157199028264960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609165715927625730

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Russians and Germans are raised without love, that's why they're such robotic people without emotions or feelings, very sad actually but makes them wayward, dangerous and incalculable...they should become extinct, the world would be such a better and more peaceful place ! No I’m only kidding haha



It's also genetic. Europe has widespread war almost every day for the past thousands of years. Men evolved to be brutal in Europe. China has thousands of years peace. Men evolved to be peaceful in China.


----------



## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608809779396476928




can you please show us where the next strategic site Russia is going to attack by being there? Please? I'll pay your airfare.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

thetutle said:


> Well UK declared war on Germany for invading Poland but did not declare war on russia for invading Poland. So UK just wanted to start a war, and it did.
> 
> whose fault was that? Its the UK's fault.
> 
> It would be like Germany declaring war on UK in 1905 for the British Invasion of Kenya.
> 
> Today, well, there is no right or wrong in such international affairs. Russia is trying to resurrect its empire just like UK tried to do it when it invaded Egypt in the 1950's. Russia is entitled to try this. Its having a good go of it, ultimately we all hope it fails because its not in our interests.
> 
> There is no right or wrong about it, The big powers make the rules and break them as they see fit.


The War was started by Germany and Russia by attacking Poland. The UK and France joined the war *after* it started. They tried to stop the war through diplomacy. Russia agreed to start the war before the German invasion.

The rules were made at the creation of the Geneva Convention and the UN Charter. Nations accept the rules by joining the United Nations and ratifying the GCs. They are not forced upon any country.

No international treaties entitles Russia to attack Ukraine and the invasion violates many treaties.

You forgot the little detail that Egypt confiscated the Suez Canal.
A country that sells shares in a company to another country and then confiscates it, are likely to be treated as an oath-breaker.



thetutle said:


> UK's unjustified declaration of war on Germany. If it wasn't for Poland, they would find another excuse, Churchill was determined to destroy Germany as it was the only country that Britain saw as a threat. USSR was deemed too backwards to be a threat to anyone. The brits really feared Germany and rightly so.


I guess it is time for another ”ignore”…
”Unjustified”…


----------



## Deino

*@Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen & @Beny Karachun !!*

*Can a moderator please step in and stop this BS? Discussing Jews, their IQ and if Chinese or Russians are smarter is first totally irrelevant to the Ukrainian war and even less for this topic!*

@waz @The Eagle

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609191958139883522

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## Ali_Baba

This offensive is Putin's final gamble. If it fails, he is doomed


Devastating losses, a declining birth rate and internal tensions mean the new Russian attack will be the dictator’s last shot at success




www.telegraph.co.uk





>> Putin has literally one last roll of the dice with his new mobilised soliders - if that does not work for him - game over..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> This offensive is Putin's final gamble. If it fails, he is doomed
> 
> 
> Devastating losses, a declining birth rate and internal tensions mean the new Russian attack will be the dictator’s last shot at success
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Putin has literally one last roll of the dice with his new mobilised soliders - if that does not work for him - game over..



Putin's re election in 2024 hinges on securing Donbas. If he fails, he will be voted out of office.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609114073874198528

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609168191325933572

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609170394535133186

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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The rules were made at the creation of the Geneva Convention and the UN Charter. Nations accept the rules by joining the United Nations and ratifying the GCs. They are not forced upon any country.
> 
> No international treaties entitles Russia to attack Ukraine and the invasion violates many treaties.


Treaties are meaningless, and are ignored by all those that write them. You basically do whatever you like if you have the strength. Thats the only rule. The great powers selectively apply the rules they make upon the little countries. 

Russia seeks to restore its empire and thinks this is totally justified. Its just not going well for them. But no one can enforce any treaty against them. 


A.P. Richelieu said:


> You forgot the little detail that Egypt confiscated the Suez Canal.



Egypt is, and was entitled to tax anything at any rate it sees fit on its territory. It taxed the Suez Canal corporation 100% of its assets in one year. Britain thought its still a colonial power, like russia, and it turned out Britain didnt do so well. Running an empire requires extraordinary military strength. 

Goa was by all treaties sovereign Portuguese land. Portugal also thought it was an empire. it had NATO support. India showed it that it was not an empire and took its sovereign land from it. Force is right and treaties were ignored. Goa is now Indian.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607019048763547648


----------



## Ali_Baba

Putin rages against the West in New Year message to his people​








Putin rages against the West in New Year message to his people


Putin, 70, looked strained and worn as he addressed Russians on television in each of the country's 11 time zones just before midnight.




www.dailymail.co.uk












>> He does not look happy - what happened - someone taken his bottle teat ??

>> Blonde lady to "his" right on the front row is here in this picture aswell as pretending to be a "mother of a lost solder"- is she back using the "correct" uniform this time?

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## Horse_Rider

Ali_Baba said:


> Erm - so what the fabled and super "amazing" S400 system doing while this airbase was being attacked?
> 
> As i have said before - and will say again - Russian Airdefence systems like the S400 are just rubbish - overhyped nonsense if they could not detect and shoot down a modified 1960's reconnisance drone ....



A couple of things:
- Russian AD systems especially S-400 aren't junk. See how much Ukraine accomplished with only S-300 they had that was upgraded. That system allowed the Ukranians to stay in the fight and denied air dominance by the RAF. If the Russians had gained air dominance over Ukraine, the game would've been long over. And with time, now the West is providing Patriots, NASAMS, HAWKS, IRIS-T, etc. But the basis for Ukraine to still exist were due to their S-300 upgraded SAMS.

- Russian system are spoofed and this capability is probably provided by the US. The 1960's "modified drones" couldn't do much by themselves. It's the American tech involved that has allowed the S-400 to be spoofed. We've seen examples in Syria many times. Despite having active S-400, the US and Israelis have attacked targets inside Syria many times.


----------



## Horse_Rider

Beny Karachun said:


> If Einstein is overrated then what are all of the Chinese physicists and scientists that have their work based on his?
> 
> 
> Of course there is, Jews are easily identifiable, we Jews can identify who is Jewish and who is not.



It's always the NOSE! Yes we know. I feel like this thread is some Jewish family history and fame thread vs. a war thread.


----------



## Corax

Beny Karachun said:


> Yeah Einstein was really smart and I always felt like his IQ score somehow belittled him in front of much less significant figures.
> 
> Btw, @S10 @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen , Einstein was Jewish.
> 
> 
> How would one try to do that?



He was an atheist. He was born into a Jewish family.


----------



## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin rages against the West in New Year message to his people​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin rages against the West in New Year message to his people
> 
> 
> Putin, 70, looked strained and worn as he addressed Russians on television in each of the country's 11 time zones just before midnight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> He does not look happy - what happened - someone taken his bottle teat ??
> 
> >> Blonde lady to "his" right on the front row is here in this picture aswell as pretending to be a "mother of a lost solder"- is she back using the "correct" uniform this time?


That’s interesting. He looks tired, angry and sick. Usually one can become sick or angry but not both or all combined.
He say that’s a special military ops but this ops will either make Russia a superpower or take Russia down into the next toilet.
Well, Putin fights his last final battle.
Where is his girlfriend?
Maybe she can comfort him a bit.
Happy new year.


----------



## 925boy

Horse_Rider said:


> Despite having active S-400, the US and Israelis have attacked targets inside Syria many times.


Active or no Active S-400 doesnt matter, as long as the order to fire isnt given, and the orders to fire the S-400s in Syria WAS NEVER GIVEN, so stop confusing a political decision(not to order S400s to fire on ISraeli or NATo planes in Syria) with a technical malfunction ("S400s dont work, they're spoofed")...S400 shot down the longest Sucesful air defense hit, period, over Ukraine, taking down that Mig-29....if Russia fires the S400, it will very likely strike what it attacked- can you give us examples of were S400s fired and missed?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609262581520257029
In 2023, I expect Ukraine to have retaken a majority of its territory and for Russia to be a mostly defeated force.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609262581520257029
> In 2023, I expect Ukraine to have retaken a majority of its territory and for Russia to be a mostly defeated force.



To retake Crimea Ukraine needs a powerful navy with a powerful amphibious force. It'll be harder than China taking Taiwan. It will cost thousands if not millions of lives.

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## Beny Karachun

Corax said:


> He was an atheist. He was born into a Jewish family.


He's a Jew lol, we are talking about his race not his belief

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> He's a Jew lol, we are talking about his race not his belief



Einstein is a German name. Sure, maybe he did have ancestors from the Judea region, but genetically he is German, not Middle Eastern.

Russia's prime minister Mishustin is Jewish and he is genetically Russian, not Middle Eastern.

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## KAL-EL

Beny Karachun said:


> He's a Jew lol, we are talking about his race not his belief



If he was alive today, I believe we would well be on our way to warp capability.

At least in the early stages


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609233625614106625


KAL-EL said:


> If he was alive today, I believe we would well be on our way to warp capability.
> 
> At least in the early stages



If he were alive today his brain be the size of a walnut. Brain shrinks with age. Actually, when it comes to astrophysics, Stephen Hawking is way above Einstein. The ability of Stephen Hawking to do math in his head is just absolutely crazy.

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## Corax

Beny Karachun said:


> He's a Jew lol, we are talking about his race not his belief



Judaism is a religion, not a race. It was Hitler who called Jews a race to eradicate them lol. You call yourself a race based on the guy who tried to exterminate you lol









Whoopi Goldberg right on Jews not being a race, wrong on Holocaust


The Holocaust was all about deadly Race Theory, but Hitler, Germany and the Nazis do not define the Jewish people.




m.jpost.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> Judaism is a religion, not a race. It was Hitler who called Jews a race to eradicate them lol. You call your a race based on the guy who tried to exterminate you lol



Exactly. Jews can be any race.

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## Corax

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Exactly. Jews can be any race.



Exactly, like Ethiopian Jews, who are clearly African Jews.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> Exactly, like Ethiopian Jews, who are clearly African Jews.



There are Chinese Jews too. I converted to Judaism for like a week. Didn't like that religion thing. Went back to atheism.

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## LeGenD

925boy said:


> Active or no Active S-400 doesnt matter, as long as the order to fire isnt given, and the orders to fire the S-400s in Syria WAS NEVER GIVEN, so stop confusing a political decision(not to order S400s to fire on ISraeli or NATo planes in Syria) with a technical malfunction ("S400s dont work, they're spoofed")...S400 shot down the longest Sucesful air defense hit, period, over Ukraine, taking down that Mig-29....if Russia fires the S400, it will very likely strike what it attacked- can you give us examples of were S400s fired and missed?











Russia’s S-400 is a disgrace in Syria, says Brigadier General Abdolrahim Mousavi


Tensions are escalating between Iran and Israel. Israel has said it had destroyed nearly all of Iran's military capabilities in Syria. It was reportedly retaliation for an Iranian missile attack on the Golan Heights. Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett's meeting with President Joe Biden comes...




www.globaldefensecorp.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> Russia’s S-400 is a disgrace in Syria, says Brigadier General Abdolrahim Mousavi
> 
> 
> Tensions are escalating between Iran and Israel. Israel has said it had destroyed nearly all of Iran's military capabilities in Syria. It was reportedly retaliation for an Iranian missile attack on the Golan Heights. Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett's meeting with President Joe Biden comes...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaldefensecorp.com



S-400 is a very old system. It used to be S-300PMU3. The latest S-350 is very effective at tackling drones.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558858724122443777

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## thetutle

Corax said:


> Judaism is a religion, not a race. It was Hitler who called Jews a race to eradicate them lol. You call yourself a race based on the guy who tried to exterminate you lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whoopi Goldberg right on Jews not being a race, wrong on Holocaust
> 
> 
> The Holocaust was all about deadly Race Theory, but Hitler, Germany and the Nazis do not define the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com



And who do you think knows more? Hitler or Whoopie Goldberg?

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## Corax

thetutle said:


> And who do you think knows more? Hitler or Whoopie Goldberg?



Read the article, Jews themselves are saying they are not a race. The Zionists, mostly of European origin, have perpetuated the lie of the Nazis that they are a race, to justify the creation of Israel. The most vehement Zionists and right wing Israelis claim they are a race.






The Myth of the Jewish Race | Lehigh University Press







lupress.cas.lehigh.edu


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> To retake Crimea Ukraine needs a powerful navy with a powerful amphibious force. It'll be harder than China taking Taiwan. It will cost thousands if not millions of lives.


Nonsense
Ukraine taking back the Crimea is hundreds times easier than China taking back Taiwan.
Taiwan is an island middle of nowhere, while Crimea is connected to the mainland by roads and bridges.
If Taiwan is under attack the US naval fleets will come to rescue. If Crimea is under attack who will come? Iran mullahs?
What Ukraine needs to repeat the siege of Kherson. Ukraine artillery will shell them days and nights. Once the Russians run out of waters, foods, ammo, fuels the only option they have is to piss off.

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## Georg

thetutle said:


> And also because Russia had unlimited financial and military help from US and UK who together produced 60% of the worlds steel in 1945. And while Germans were losing millions of troops fighting the Russians, British bombers would reduce German cities to rubble by day and Americans would continue the bombing by night committing genocide against German civilians and destroying their industry piece by piece.
> 
> And even during all this, the Volkswagen factory never stopped producing, not even for a day.
> 
> Had US and UK not intervened and started WW2, russia would be totally and utterly wiped out. it would just be rumour. A historical question mark. No more russia, and probably no holocaust as the German victory would have been swift and painless for Germany.
> 
> So the Russian red army is just the army that paid in blood to save the Anglo empire from getting its hands dirty.


more important that USA had total controll over the worlds oil production during ww2...

Red Army recived 95% of its high octan fuel for their air force during ww2 from USA and 50% of all other fuel oil needed...
Exactly what germans cost the victory... stupidly bad supply planing by the German high command let the Wehrmacht run out of fuel reserve 3 months into Barbarossa,,, means from late 1941 till end in 1945 the Wehrmacht was completely undersupplied of fuel and quality oil 

Next to other critical supply like locomotives railcars railways trucks and Jeeps that keep the Soviet Supply line running ...by 1945 3/4 of the complete Red Army supply vehicles were US made.

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## bobo6661

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> To retake Crimea Ukraine needs a powerful navy with a powerful amphibious force. It'll be harder than China taking Taiwan. It will cost thousands if not millions of lives.


not real if crimea bridge go puff it's the end for them there


----------



## Corax

Beny Karachun said:


> We are an ethno-religion... Ashkenazi Jews, Mizrahi Jews and Sephardic Jews are considered races
> 
> 
> Lol, he's Ashkenazi Jewish. Call us European, doesn't matter, we are still smarter
> 
> 
> They have no chance even if they fire the S-400, they don't use it because they know Israel will hunt them all down



No, you only consider yourselves a race, brainwashed by the Nazis.

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## khansaheeb

Beny Karachun said:


> We are an ethno-religion... Ashkenazi Jews, Mizrahi Jews and Sephardic Jews are considered races
> 
> 
> Lol, he's Ashkenazi Jewish. Call us European, doesn't matter, we are still smarter
> 
> 
> They have no chance even if they fire the S-400, they don't use it because they know Israel will hunt them all down


You are just a gang of ethno Nazis oppressing people under a British setup apartheid regime. We have seen many in history and they all had the same demise.

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## Beny Karachun

Corax said:


> No, you only consider yourselves a race, brainwashed by the Nazis.


Google Ashkenazi Jews lol


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609297245131739136


----------



## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> To retake Crimea Ukraine needs a powerful navy with a powerful amphibious force. It'll be harder than China taking Taiwan. It will cost thousands if not millions of lives.


Don't need a powerful navy. Just keep killing the Russian forces with HIMARS and drones while Russians play static defense. The Russian Navy can't even get close to Odessa.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609157199028264960
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609165715927625730


Are those mattresses?

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> There are a lot of stuff US don't need or use they can send to Ukraine to deal with Russia, all those comes with minimal training required.
> 
> Bradley (US have around 250 stored somewhere not used and not in strategic reserve)
> M109A6 (US have at least 450 stored and not used)
> M60 Patton (US have 1000+ serviceable M60 in storage, waiting to be converted to target (Which mean it's going to be destroyed anyway) and already retired.)
> M270 (US have around 200 M270 Marine retired when they fielded HIMARS.)
> M113 (US have 4000+ M113 of all variants in storage, retired and waiting to be scraped)
> M1128 Stryker MGS (US have retired the entire M1128 MGS just this year, there are 140 of those)
> 
> If US send all these to Ukriane, that is enough for the Ukrainian to mount an offensive. And that's just retired stuff, not stuff that we still use and can be spared, and that just US. I don't understand why US and EU are holding on to those old stock to begin with. The rationale is that you may need that for a conventional war with a near peer enemy, which is Russia, which is basically what these article being store in reserve is for, for them to fight Russia, then why not send them to Ukraine so they can do what they were stored to do??


Lot of vehicles wasting away in the desert to be used as targets or scrapped. Built during the Cold War except for the Strykers to be used against the Russians. Trillions spent sitting there when it should be sent to do what it was designed for. Definitely get them ready for the next year's counter offensives.



jhungary said:


> You can't send 1000 Patton and 4000 modernized M113 APC, Ukraine won't have enough soldier to use them.
> 
> What I was saying is that Ukraine needed some of those influx to get their edge over Russia. Because Russia have a lot of them. Of that list, only 40 or so M109 was sent and only around 200 M113 and 20 HIMARS was sent, that was way under par.
> 
> And if you ask me, the West has already armed Ukraine to the teeth, I mean you have a regiment of HIMARS and couple with a few unit of NASAM and the upcoming Patriot, all that had way pass the point of no return for the west, you may as well have a bulk of old US stuff to go with.


A thousand M113s would be the way to go since they need troop transports instead of just trucks only. Don't know if they get the mortar variants. Not to mention tanks as well. If they do send in the Bradleys, they should send them only at night in conjunction with tanks that have NV or thermal since they work best in that condition.

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## S10

Beny Karachun said:


> 80 percent of Jews in the world are Ashkenazi Jews, not a very "specific subgroup"
> 
> I don't read Chinese, but if what's written there says Chinese people have 115.3 IQ and Jews have 114.1, the first figure is wrong lol


Most of these Ashkenazi Jews don't live in Israel. As a country you're quite dumb. Quit trying to take credit for shit you have no part of.

Just the area of Shanghai has an average IQ test score of 115.3, and that's 3 times the number of Ashkenazi Jews worldwide in one city.



Beny Karachun said:


> Yeah Einstein was really smart and I always felt like his IQ score somehow belittled him in front of much less significant figures.
> 
> Btw, @S10 @Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen , Einstein was Jewish.


And you're related to him how? He was born and educated in Germany. You're a nobody from a country relies on American handouts and can't even get into top 40 in terms of average intelligence.


----------



## Oldman1

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine cannot be trusted by the West. If Zelensky is ousted from power and a pro Russian man becomes president Ukraine will be enemy of the West. In the 1970s Iran was a top US ally then after the Shah was ousted Iran became enemy.


Hence the need to keep supporting Ukraine. Send in more weapons.



thetutle said:


> Send Ukraine 1,000 Pattons and 4,000 M113's, youre kidding? The rationale is more likely that noone wants to see Ukraine become a regional power. Its already probably the strongest army in Europe apart from Russia. I mean who could beat Ukraine in a fight now? British? French? I dont think so. Maybe British with the F35's but they still lack land forces to beat Ukraine.
> 
> The trick is to defeat russia without creating a ukranian monster.


Ukraine is not interested in being a regional power. Who has Ukraine gone to war with since its independence? The one thing they care most is about their security. Hostile Russia and Belarus controlled by Russia. All we know is that many countries especially those that were formerly part of the USSR are eager to provide weaponry to Ukraine. Even at sometimes at the sacrifice of their own military forces equipment and security.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

For fak sake drop a bomb or two and finish this war, everyone's tired of it I bet even the weapon manufacturers in US are tired and want to try something new

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## Oldman1

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> For fak sake drop a bomb or two and finish this war, everyone's tired of it I bet even the weapon manufacturers in US are tired and want to try something new


Why would they be tired of trying something where they can see how the weapons performed in real combat in real world conditions in a massive conventional war?









Russia grants tax amnesty to encourage troops fighting in Ukraine


Russian forces can also receive ‘rewards and gifts’ for their services in Ukraine, according to new decree.




www.aljazeera.com




Free sperm banks, high paying hazardous pay, and now tax amnesty.
Russia grants tax amnesty to encourage troops fighting in Ukraine​_Russian forces can also receive ‘rewards and gifts’ for their services in Ukraine, according to new decree._
Russian authorities have announced that soldiers and state employees deployed to fight in Ukraine will be exempt from income tax, Moscow’s latest effort to encourage support for a military campaign against Kyiv that has suffered multiple setbacks and defeats.

The new tax measure concerns all Russian troops fighting in the four Ukrainian territories Moscow has declared as its own – Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhia – although it does not completely control the four regions.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov on Friday cited an exemption contained in an anti-corruption law, which the Russian authorities published the details of on Thursday evening.

Soldiers, police, members of the security services and other state employees serving in the four regions no longer have to supply information on “their income, their expenditure, their assets”, according to the decree.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Beny Karachun said:


> Google Ashkenazi Jews lol


_



_


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

Viet said:


> Hopefully not. Assume this war is over in 3 years, 10,000 deaths per month, 300,000 Russians will be dead when this stupid war is over. Putin is the hangman of Russia. He has participated with 300,000 own deaths. Life seems not much worth in Russia.


Why blame Putin, he is not the one who breached minsk agreement

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## Corax

Beny Karachun said:


> Google Ashkenazi Jews lol



Lol...weren't you claiming you Jews are "superior" in intelligence, good looks, etc...rather like the Nazi "master race"?! You sound more like the Nazis.

You clearly no nothing about genetics and inbreeding lol the Ashkenazi are well known for their genetic disorders and inherited disfunctions. They are a small inbreed group of people, not a race. They just happen to be of Jewish faith. Would you clarify Ethiopian Jews as a race too?






NCI Dictionary of Genetics Terms


A dictionary of more than 150 genetics-related terms written for healthcare professionals. This resource was developed to support the comprehensive, evidence-based, peer-reviewed PDQ cancer genetics information summaries.




www.cancer.gov

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Ukraine is not interested in being a regional power. Who has Ukraine gone to war with since its independence? The one thing they care most is about their security. Hostile Russia and Belarus controlled by Russia. All we know is that many countries especially those that were formerly part of the USSR are eager to provide weaponry to Ukraine. Even at sometimes at the sacrifice of their own military forces equipment and security.



Same can be said about Cuba. Cuba never intended to invade the US, yet the US sanctions Cuba. Just because Ukraine does not intend to invade Russia, does not mean Russia would not be hostile to Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609328902983254017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609333817969344512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609333165814067200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609337477197713408


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609311059281870850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609305214942859265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609302197543768065

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608716894177230850
> Another Russian cruise missile shot down with MANPAD


I dont get why one would question this being possible. If a cruise missile passes by, its probably much easier to destroy than a plane trying to evade the impact. As far as I remember the training simulation (back in the 90s) for Stingers were targetting jets.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> I dont get why one would question this being possible. If a cruise missile passes by, its probably much easier to destroy than a plane trying to evade the impact. As far as I remember the training simulation (back in the 90s) for Stingers were targetting jets.



Cruise missile flies low. You can see from the footage it only gives you a couple of seconds to react before it disappears from your field of view. And that's during day time. At night, it's practically impossible to shoot down, even if you wear night vision goggles.

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## MeFishToo

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Why blame Putin, he is not the one who breached minsk agreement


One could argue Putin is the reason the Minsk agreement even exist. I wouldnt trust the russians not to breach an agreement.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Downed Russian jets ‘almost all’ taken out by Kremlin's own air defence


Communication breakdown among Moscow's forces in Ukraine led to a number of 'friendly fire' incidents, claim bloggers




www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## MeFishToo

thetutle said:


> Send Ukraine 1,000 Pattons and 4,000 M113's, youre kidding? The rationale is more likely that noone wants to see Ukraine become a regional power. Its already probably the strongest army in Europe apart from Russia. I mean who could beat Ukraine in a fight now? British? French? I dont think so. Maybe British with the F35's but they still lack land forces to beat Ukraine.
> 
> The trick is to defeat russia without creating a ukranian monster.


The ukrainians can defend, but honestly, theyre not an offensive power. So no need to worry.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609216978904035331

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609216978904035331



More than replaced by new tanks. New tanks such as T-90M and T-14 are far more efficient. 200 T-90M has better combat effectiveness than 1,000 T-72.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Lot of vehicles wasting away in the desert to be used as targets or scrapped. Built during the Cold War except for the Strykers to be used against the Russians. Trillions spent sitting there when it should be sent to do what it was designed for. Definitely get them ready for the next year's counter offensives.
> 
> 
> A thousand M113s would be the way to go since they need troop transports instead of just trucks only. Don't know if they get the mortar variants. Not to mention tanks as well. If they do send in the Bradleys, they should send them only at night in conjunction with tanks that have NV or thermal since they work best in that condition.


Heard some rumour the DOD is looking for people to refurbuish those old tank, not sure if it was make it combat ready or make it a target drone. But something is definitely going on I would say, but not sure what. 

Ukrainian army is not really that mechanised, most of them still use civilian car as their mode of transport, we need to give them more armoured transport to begin with, M113 is probably the best choice there are, as I said before, it is a adaptable platform, you can put TOW on top, you can put chain gun on top, you can also use it as battle taxi. What I would do if I was in charge of Ukrainian program is to armed 1 Ukrainian Mechanised Division, that include 80 M1/M60 tank, 80 M2 Bradley and 40 M113 in several command set. That alone can blow ay organise Russian unit out of water, and the cost of that is minimal.

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## The SC

Interesting events and analysis..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609342112956354562

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609347820028416001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609349265490313216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609342003678007307

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## KAL-EL

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Exactly. Jews can be any race.



True.. I know a sicilian Jew.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609350204301676544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609347809903509504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609235262944444426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609341207934799873


KAL-EL said:


> True.. I know a sicilian Jew.



I am Chinese Jew.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609167063335174148

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609161893633003521
Eyewitnesses: The explosions in the Ukrainian capital are unprecedented in terms of their intensity
@SkyNewsArabia_B


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609171787526574080
Zelensky's former spokeswoman:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609158156499697664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609183216262324225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609189161243906051


https://twitter.com/TobiAyodele/status/1609229698449522688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1609229698449522688%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

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## KAL-EL

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609350204301676544
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609347809903509504
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609235262944444426
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609341207934799873
> 
> 
> I am Chinese Jew.



I thought you said you tried it for a week and didn't like it?


----------



## The SC

President Putin congratulates the people on the New Year for the first time, accompanied by military personnel, and as the longest congratulation in his history, and sends a message:

"Either we surrender or we fight. The moral and historical right is with us, and we will preserve our great, independent country, and we will not give up anything. The year 2022 was a difficult year. It separated courage and heroism from betrayal and cowardice."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609234168365424641


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609242034715475975

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609243033836425216


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Futurama Good News GIF - Futurama Good News Good - Discover & Share GIFs


Click to view the GIF




tenor.com





Good news everyone someone died in Moscow with 16 stab wound.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

KAL-EL said:


> I thought you said you tried it for a week and didn't like it?



Once a Jew, always a Jew.



The SC said:


> President Putin congratulates the people on the New Year for the first time, accompanied by military personnel, and as the longest congratulation in his history, and sends a message:
> 
> "Either we surrender or we fight. The moral and historical right is with us, and we will preserve our great, independent country, and we will not give up anything. The year 2022 was a difficult year. It separated courage and heroism from betrayal and cowardice."
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609234168365424641
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609242034715475975
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609243033836425216



From this point on Russia is China's slave forever. Russians will never trust the West ever again.


----------



## KAL-EL

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Once a Jew, always a Jew.



Once a Corvette lover, always a Corvette lover

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609353885302358016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609347892463927298

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609321471666524160

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> Active or no Active S-400 doesnt matter, as long as the order to fire isnt given, and the orders to fire the S-400s in Syria WAS NEVER GIVEN, so stop confusing a political decision(not to order S400s to fire on ISraeli or NATo planes in Syria) with a technical malfunction ("S400s dont work, they're spoofed")...S400 shot down the longest Sucesful air defense hit, period, over Ukraine, taking down that Mig-29....if Russia fires the S400, it will very likely strike what it attacked- can you give us examples of were S400s fired and missed?


More Russian showcase material sitting in Syria: if not to be used over Syria, against attacking aircraft, who did they put it in for: the Kurdish rebels? 

We don't know effectiveness of S-400, that much is true. But to say that Russian's are holding use of it for some bigger enemy is laughable. This is the same argument that Russia has 1000s of T-80s but saving that for some future battle while sending older T models to battlefront TODAY


----------



## Viet

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Why blame Putin, he is not the one who breached minsk agreement


That’s propaganda. It’s Putin who breaks the agreement and makes preparations to assault Ukraine, the EU, the NATO and the West. He dreams of return of empire. He is so obsessed with Ukraine that he is willing to destroy Russia. Just 3 days after the Minsk agreement he sent the separatists to seize up Ukraine territory. Merkel knew Putin in and out she was smart to realize Putin doesn’t want peace. So she played the game Ukraine preparing for the war which we see today.

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## Stranagor

Oldman1 said:


> Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov on Friday cited an exemption contained in an anti-corruption law, which the Russian authorities published the details of on Thursday evening.



Immunity from corruption charges in exchange for joining the war. That's novel.

Still, rather than joining the war, smarter Russians would join Putin's oligarchy circle. 

Same effect in terms of immunity from corruption as well as from a certain death in Ukraine. 



Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Why blame Putin, he is not the one who breached minsk agreement



Russia could not breach an agreement it did not recognize.

Because Kremlin said 'it is not a party to the conflict and therefore is not bound by its terms (the terms of Minsk II). '









Factbox: What are the Minsk agreements on the Ukraine conflict?


U.S. authorities have warned Russia not to invade Ukraine and urged both countries to return to a set of agreements designed to end a separatist war by Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine.




www.reuters.com

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609321471666524160


Military worthless. That’s just terror that brings Russia nothing but more hatred from Ukraine population. Firing 20 cruise missiles, what’s result? One Ukraine elder and one Japanese reporter were killed. Ukraine air defense intercepted 16 from 20 missiles.


----------



## Viet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609180784736206851

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## srshkmr

KAL-EL said:


> I thought you said you tried it for a week and didn't like it?


Please dont engage in a conversation with him, I want my last two brain cells alive

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## jamahir

srshkmr said:


> Please dont engage in a conversation with him, I want my last two brain cells alive



Yes, I know that Hindutvadis lose brain cells not because of accidental disease ( like my late father who developed dementia and Alzheimer's ) but because of their Hindutvadi "way of life" and thus they support genociders, war criminals and utter crooks like NATO and the UkroNazis.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> For fak sake drop a bomb or two and finish this war, everyone's tired of it I bet even the weapon manufacturers in US are tired and want to try something new


what for ?


----------



## SIPRA

Hack-Hook said:


> what for ?



He told that he getting tired and bored. 😛😛


----------



## Ali_Baba

How Putin’s dream of a new Russian empire was destroyed on the fields of Ukraine


Far from restoring Russia’s greatness, the president’s war has reduced it to a third-rate power




www.telegraph.co.uk





>> Fantastic article on the strategic failures of Putin - worth a read by all.

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## Hack-Hook

SIPRA said:


> He told that he getting tired and bored. 😛😛


but why ?
its funny , each they you see something happen there you taught impossible

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## Viet

Interesting

Putin says the decisions (he made) in the year were crucial towards Russia full sovereignty. He has been in power for over 20 years, should that mean Putin’s Russia was not a sovereignty nation until he starts the war?

Where was he in the last 20 years? Hiding in his palaces and yachts?

Putin is a man with low IQ that believes other people in Russia have lower IQ than him.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Adik the dog stolen by Russian soldiers returned in prisoner exchange


American Pit Bull Terrier Adik stolen by Russian soldiers and given to Chechen leader Kadyrov as a 'trophy' has been freed and returned to a Ukrainian servicewoman in a prisoner exchange.




www.dailymail.co.uk





So - is there is no inflation in Russia??

Via a number of new reports - a russian soldier was worth a :
- Car
- An iPhone
- A washing machine
- Bag of potatoes and fish

And now - only a Dog !!!

When the narrative and rationale for the war is flawed and the people do not believe in what they are fighting for - then attempts at bribery is all you have left.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609227393750769666


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609545024265494528


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609560512911609864


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609542630538354693
NASAMS shot down about every Shahed drone last night over Kyiv. Thankfully the US has a huge stockpile of AMRAAMS

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## 925boy

aviator_fan said:


> More Russian showcase material sitting in Syria: if not to be used over Syria, against attacking aircraft, who did they put it in for: the Kurdish rebels?


This happened because of US/NATO- Russia "military politics" in Syria...,politics preceeds military action or inaction. Relax your frustration from my seeing S400s smoke 90% of NATo equipment that flies.


aviator_fan said:


> We don't know effectiveness of S-400, that much is true.


Lol- but it earned the longest air defense interception against an aircraft in Ukraine months ago...and we know China and India both trust it to defend their countries..a.nd even Turkey fought NATo to acquire it- you think you know more about its reliability than these 3 countries?


aviator_fan said:


> But to say that Russian's are holding use of it for some bigger enemy is laughable.


its only laughable to you, enjoy your joke by yourself.


aviator_fan said:


> This is the same argument that Russia has 1000s of T-80s but saving that for some future battle while sending older T models to battlefront TODAY


then send in NATO and learn the hard way? Because NATO is unable to deploy forces on the ground now, despite having over "30 countries, trillions of $ of economic blah blah",..thats all nice, but it mostly exists on paper- US military is very unwilling today to fight a conventional war against a conventional foe- Ukraine war is a good example - reality shows NATO is afraid to directly engage and finish off an apparently weakened Russia. Wee are waiting..

But Ukrainians keep losing so much territory now! Opytne they've lost, Russians entered Klichevka, Ukraine just keeps losing territory and Russia keeps gaining them...NATo gonna have to send in its ground forces soon, or Ukraine goes down for the permanent count - Russian artillery and SWEET SWEET SHAHED 136s have obviously decimated Ukrainian military's logistical backend- thats why terrritory is being lost quickly.



Ali_Baba said:


> How Putin’s dream of a new Russian empire was destroyed on the fields of Ukraine
> 
> 
> Far from restoring Russia’s greatness, the president’s war has reduced it to a third-rate power
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Fantastic article on the strategic failures of Putin - worth a read by all.


The vast majority of US and UK news sources dont give complete and accurate information on the Ukraine war- enjoy your confirmation bias- Telegraph.co.uk has obviously been influenced by the UK govt somehow,esp on the Ukraine war.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609542630538354693
> NASAMS shot down about every Shahed drone last night over Kyiv. Thankfully the US has a huge stockpile of AMRAAMS



1 million dollar missiles wasted on 20,000 bucks drones. Who needs missiles when all you need is tomatoes. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609568776000765952

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## Viet

Congrats

Russia has multiple armies: the regular army, the FSB, the security apparatus, the Wagner hooligans, the Kadyrow’s Chechens, the separatist armies. As if not enough, now a new army called “Patriots” led by Russia defense minister Shoigu himself.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608131037099425793


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Congrats
> 
> Russia has multiple armies: the regular army, the FSB, the security apparatus, the Wagner hooligans, the Kadyrow’s Chechens, the separatist armies, now the a new army “Patriots” led by Russia defense minister Shoigu himself.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608131037099425793



That's what a 150 million people country can do. They can afford to raise a big army. On the other hand, Ukraine being a 30 million people country has more limited human resource.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> That's what a 150 million people country can do. They can afford to raise a big army. On the other hand, Ukraine being a 30 million people country has more limited human resource.


A big army ok but not multiple armies. Looks to me Russia is hijacked by private mafia groups. “Patriots” is a nationalist racist group of gangsters.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Looks to me Russia is hijacked by private mafia groups.



Same with the US. Biden is not really in power. The oligarchs and elites buy the politicians.


----------



## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> This happened because of US/NATO- Russia "military politics" in Syria...,politics preceeds military action or inaction. Relax your frustration from my seeing S400s smoke 90% of NATo equipment that flies.


It is a highly boasted weapon that when time for use was there did not work or was not used. 

And despite its use in ukraine, has been unable to gain air dominance. 

Its seems like a lot of hot air. An unproven weapon so far. 



925boy said:


> then send in NATO and learn the hard way? Because NATO is unable to deploy forces on the ground now, despite having over "30 countries, trillions of $ of economic blah blah",..thats all nice, but it mostly exists on paper-



Nonsense. Military armaments are massive and hardly used yet.

Nuclear deterrence is a major reason russia is not being kicked out of ukraine by Nato. repeated many times but you just keep screaming “chicken chicken, cowards must be weak else why would they not attack a country with 10.000 nukes!?”

Seriously low IQ….or maybe you are 12 years old or something. 


925boy said:


> US military is very unwilling today to fight a conventional war against a conventional foe- Ukraine war is a good example - reality shows NATO is afraid to directly engage and finish off an apparently weakened Russia. Wee are waiting..


Keep waiting. 
1. Nato does not want nuclear brinkmanship.
2. Nato (especially USA) benefits from a more drawn out proxy conflict instead of sending more then single digit % military aid. 


925boy said:


> But Ukrainians keep losing so much territory now! Opytne they've lost, Russians entered Klichevka, Ukraine just keeps losing territory and Russia keeps gaining them...


1 village in a month? 

What a result from 300.000 extra mobilised troops! 



925boy said:


> NATo gonna have to send in its ground forces soon, or Ukraine goes down for the permanent count - Russian artillery and SWEET SWEET SHAHED 136s have obviously decimated Ukrainian military's logistical backend- thats why terrritory is being lost quickly.


Quickly? Another low IQ nonsense analysis. 



925boy said:


> The vast majority of US and UK news sources dont give complete and accurate information on the Ukraine war- enjoy your confirmation bias- Telegraph.co.uk has obviously been influenced by the UK govt somehow,esp on the Ukraine war.



Yea russian propaganda is much more reliable. How is the moskva doing?



Viet said:


> Congrats
> 
> Russia has multiple armies: the regular army, the FSB, the security apparatus, the Wagner hooligans, the Kadyrow’s Chechens, the separatist armies. As if not enough, now a new army called “Patriots” led by Russia defense minister Shoigu himself.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608131037099425793


Terrible for cohesion and combined warfare. 

Little armies here and there hardly communicating or working together. 
More cannon fodder basically

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## dBSPL

Ukrainian Navy corvette F 211 Hetman Ivan Mazepa, during equipping activities.


----------



## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> It is a highly boasted weapon that when time for use was there did not work or was not used.
> 
> And despite its use in ukraine, has been unable to gain air dominance.
> 
> Its seems like a lot of hot air. An unproven weapon so far.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense. Military armaments are massive and hardly used yet.
> 
> Nuclear deterrence is a major reason russia is not being kicked out of ukraine by Nato. repeated many times but you just keep screaming “chicken chicken, cowards must be weak else why would they not attack a country with 10.000 nukes!?”
> 
> Seriously low IQ….or maybe you are 12 years old or something.
> 
> Keep waiting.
> 1. Nato does not want nuclear brinkmanship.
> 2. Nato (especially USA) benefits from a more drawn out proxy conflict instead of sending more then single digit % military aid.
> 
> 1 village in a month?
> 
> What a result from 300.000 extra mobilised troops!
> 
> 
> Quickly? Another low IQ nonsense analysis.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea russian propaganda is much more reliable. How is the moskva doing?
> 
> 
> Terrible for cohesion and combined warfare.
> 
> Little armies here and there hardly communicating or working together.
> More cannon fodder basically


That explains the Russians high casualty died by “friendly fire”. They kill themselves before Ukraine artillery kill them.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dBSPL said:


> Ukrainian Navy corvette F 211 Hetman Ivan Mazepa, during equipping activities.



It will be sank by Iskander the first day in service. What a waste.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609611974609932290

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609611974609932290



1 Iskander. Boom. Thousands of Pakistani made ammo gone to waste.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609626359936024576
HIMARS strike on Russian base

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> This happened because of US/NATO- Russia "military politics" in Syria...,politics preceeds military action or inaction. Relax your frustration from my seeing S400s smoke 90% of NATo equipment that flies.
> 
> Lol- but it earned the longest air defense interception against an aircraft in Ukraine months ago...and we know China and India both trust it to defend their countries..a.nd even Turkey fought NATo to acquire it- you think you know more about its reliability than these 3 countries?
> 
> its only laughable to you, enjoy your joke by yourself.
> 
> then send in NATO and learn the hard way? Because NATO is unable to deploy forces on the ground now, despite having over "30 countries, trillions of $ of economic blah blah",..thats all nice, but it mostly exists on paper- US military is very unwilling today to fight a conventional war against a conventional foe- Ukraine war is a good example - reality shows NATO is afraid to directly engage and finish off an apparently weakened Russia. Wee are waiting..
> 
> But Ukrainians keep losing so much territory now! Opytne they've lost, Russians entered Klichevka, Ukraine just keeps losing territory and Russia keeps gaining them...NATo gonna have to send in its ground forces soon, or Ukraine goes down for the permanent count - Russian artillery and SWEET SWEET SHAHED 136s have obviously decimated Ukrainian military's logistical backend- thats why terrritory is being lost quickly.
> 
> 
> The vast majority of US and UK news sources dont give complete and accurate information on the Ukraine war- enjoy your confirmation bias- Telegraph.co.uk has obviously been influenced by the UK govt somehow,esp on the Ukraine war.


This is the ultimate excuse: we save our weapons for the benefits of politics. Nice one....and the longest interception is a one time ruse the Russians pulled off. Those missiles are in Syria for Syria's protection but serve zero deterrent value to Israeli F-16s; They haven't even pulled out the F-35.
Other than to you, this is no laughing matter, particularly for the Russian arms industry which is pretty much tanked.

And you can do what you do in every post you make , 'lmao' while no country will ever fork out any future money for a Sukhoi, or an S-400 or its future derivative.

The bright side the benefit of this substandard tech is that these countries will only be left with Western Supplies. Which is too expensive for most so they won't by any equipment.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609332107976871936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609563909463371776

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609332107976871936
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609563909463371776



Russia makes more missiles to replenish depleted stock.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg is sh\itting in his pants. I thought the Western mouthpieces claimed that Russia is running out of weapons. Now, the new claim is "we must be ready to provide long-term support to Ukraine."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609610838482059271
"'The Ukrainian forces had the momentum for several months, but we also know that Russia has mobilized many more forces, many of them are now training," Stoltenberg said.

"All that indicates that they are prepared to continue the war and also try to potentially launch a new offensive,' he added."



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609626359936024576
> HIMARS strike on Russian base




HiMARS this, HIMARS that. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609506981340913664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609571976217243648

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609649682921160704

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609649543225774081


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Shaheed-136s aka Geran2 drone has a special sound. And as soon as the Ukrainians hear about it, they run in all directions. Run, run, here the Shaheed-136s aka Geran2 drone. Run.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609635128132648968

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609581999697629184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609569210811793408
Ouch, why did Germany shoot itself at the foot by imposing sanctions on Russia that backfired on Germany? It seems nobody in the EU can say no to the USA.

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## Viet

the 1,000 men Russia legion “free Russia”

Russia soldiers under Ukraine commando fighting against Putin’s tyranny.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609561714504122368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609519044427759618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609519847632965635

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609502690547056646

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> the 1,000 men Russia legion “free Russia”
> 
> Russia soldiers under Ukraine commando fighting against Putin’s tyranny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 908876
> 
> 
> View attachment 908877
> 
> 
> View attachment 908878



I've seen Free Russia soldiers armed with M2 Browning but they always get killed quick.

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## The SC

Ukraine. Military Summary And Analysis 01.01.2023​


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609561714504122368



Damn. Thermal has become so prevalent even squads have these. Back in the Gulf war only Apache helicopters and Abrams tanks had thermal.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609160804313473024

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Drone attack. Boom. Boom.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609503879984562178

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## Ahmadbhutta01

Let's see how u want this war to end , a mulitipolar world where usa can switch off ur swift and ur country is economy paralyzed, or a multi polar world where usa swift isn't the only option. This war had taught many countries alot of things we should have another way can trade in other currencies , usa can have ur money seized in west declaring you oligarchs. It's good it happened sooner 
Atleast gulf middle eastern countries know now where to invest 
And most importantly Ukrainian lives are secondary to USA it's all crocodile tears

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609669006243266561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609664741856739333

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609657637133766657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609623574620557313

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609529308673884162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609530117616971778

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609653002532540416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609668158524203008

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609227885134454786

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609671865844350976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609517298292858881

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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Let's see how u want this war to end , a mulitipolar world where usa can switch off ur swift and ur country is economy paralyzed, or a multi polar world where usa swift isn't the only option. This war had taught many countries alot of things we should have another way can trade in other currencies , usa can have ur money seized in west declaring you oligarchs. It's good it happened sooner
> Atleast gulf middle eastern countries know now where to invest
> And most importantly Ukrainian lives are secondary to USA it's all crocodile tears


So if India invaded Pakistan and US come help defending Pakistan with weapon supplies and intelligence sharing, I want to know if you would think that Pakistani live are "Secondary" to USA because of that and that was just crocodile tears?? Or you would think Pakistani should rather just surrender to avoid Bloodshed instead becoming "Secondary" to the USA?

I mean you have a weird sense of nationalism.

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## jhungary

Igor Girkin says Moscow should use tactical nuclear weapons



By the way, he is saying Russian should use tactical nuclear weapon on NATO.....LOL........

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609504505569370115

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609671865844350976
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609517298292858881



In other words, no shortage of missiles. Just think. In China every year tens of millions of cars get built. Even in the US where industry is weak, millions of cars get built every year. This planet has so much natural resource it is mind boggling. Russia can literally build millions of missiles a year.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609677079427305475

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609678297830408193
The amount of carnage and psychological impacts that small Shaheed-136 aka Geran-2 drones can do is unbelievable. None of those Western-built air defenses can stop them.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609472643308351489

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> None of those Western-built air defenses can stop them.



It's not economic. A drone costs only 20,000 bucks and thousands can be built a month. A Patriot missile for example costs a million bucks to build, and only hundreds can be built a month.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609472643308351489



China also has Russia's back. 1.4 billion highly intelligent and highly disciplined and highly motivated people can do a lot. If need be, China will supply weapons to Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609676698852769793

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609687578243993600

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609724755539525632

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609575305814884355

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609575313092001793

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609626472658112512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609628850278858763

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609628874043981824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609649723559796736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609649732233691136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609650522226847744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609672233831596033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609652891639316480
https://twitter.com/bigrussianshop/status/1609667710400462850

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg is sh\itting in his pants. I thought the Western mouthpieces claimed that Russia is running out of weapons. Now, the new claim is "we must be ready to provide long-term support to Ukraine."
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609610838482059271
> "'The Ukrainian forces had the momentum for several months, but we also know that Russia has mobilized many more forces, many of them are now training," Stoltenberg said.
> 
> "All that indicates that they are prepared to continue the war and also try to potentially launch a new offensive,' he added."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HiMARS this, HIMARS that. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609506981340913664
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609571976217243648


Nobody is doing anything in their pants other than you as a Putin employee mindlessly broadcasting without looking at details. If you bothered to look (or your Kremlin handlers did) at details what he said was to prepare for long-haul and NATO to supply more weapons. He is not panicked and his pants are unfortunately clean. He is signaling to NATO countries and also the public opinion to not assume that this is over in two months. 

With an industrial capacity 15x of Russia, that won’t be an issue. 

This is quite different from the pants business in Russia: from a ’special ops’ to install a new Govt and march up to the capital to staying on the eastern border only, then losing half of that territory, and then giving a pathetic new year speech that the survival of the country depended on it: thats where the pant issue comes up. This the opposite of looking at the situation objectively and mobilizing your public opinion. 

You are right in that weapons supplies for either side are not infinite. NATO will have to produce more. And Russia is getting weapons from Iran, and North Korea. Thats not a dream, its reality



Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Let's see how u want this war to end , a mulitipolar world where usa can switch off ur swift and ur country is economy paralyzed, or a multi polar world where usa swift isn't the only option. This war had taught many countries alot of things we should have another way can trade in other currencies , usa can have ur money seized in west declaring you oligarchs. It's good it happened sooner
> Atleast gulf middle eastern countries know now where to invest
> And most importantly Ukrainian lives are secondary to USA it's all crocodile tears


A multipolar world would have been better (or what was effectively a tripolar one with China since China wasn’t aligned with Russia in its foreign policy goals).

As for seizing money, this is not the first time obviously and goes back to 1979 with the revolution Iran. 

Gulf Middle Eastern countries have not shifted their investment strategies because of this. Yes they are supplying more oil to more preferred and newer alliances. The money they gain is still very much ending up in Europe where there is some confidence in the justice system, vs. giving it to countries led by strongmen who decide what will happen with their investment and when

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609766678081961986


aviator_fan said:


> With an industrial capacity 15x of Russia, that won’t be an issue.



Seriously? China got Russia's back. China's industrial capacity is mind boggling. The US only makes a quarter as many cars annually as China does. It's not even close.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609699305149071360

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609671226057711616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609667330400980992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609691180458967040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609707693626753024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609723749447929859

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609726469869080576

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609722696345976836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608187967348015105


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Heard some rumour the DOD is looking for people to refurbuish those old tank, not sure if it was make it combat ready or make it a target drone. But something is definitely going on I would say, but not sure what.
> 
> Ukrainian army is not really that mechanised, most of them still use civilian car as their mode of transport, we need to give them more armoured transport to begin with, M113 is probably the best choice there are, as I said before, it is a adaptable platform, you can put TOW on top, you can put chain gun on top, you can also use it as battle taxi. What I would do if I was in charge of Ukrainian program is to armed 1 Ukrainian Mechanised Division, that include 80 M1/M60 tank, 80 M2 Bradley and 40 M113 in several command set. That alone can blow ay organise Russian unit out of water, and the cost of that is minimal.


Yeah we can easily see so many variants they made especially during the Cold War. And now Turkey has pushed it to its limit what it can. Same for other countries still using that design like Israel and South Korea. Israel has their Namer and are replacing them, think in the hundreds or thousands. Think Turkey may be building a replacement as well. The U.S. have already the Armor Multi Purpose Vehicle replacing the thousands of M113s. Helps Ukraine during and post war when giving it to them.


----------



## Viet

aviator_fan said:


> Nobody is doing anything in their pants other than you as a Putin employee mindlessly broadcasting without looking at details. If you bothered to look (or your Kremlin handlers did) at details what he said was to prepare for long-haul and NATO to supply more weapons. He is not panicked and his pants are unfortunately clean. He is signaling to NATO countries and also the public opinion to not assume that this is over in two months.
> 
> With an industrial capacity 15x of Russia, that won’t be an issue.
> 
> This is quite different from the pants business in Russia: from a ’special ops’ to install a new Govt and march up to the capital to staying on the eastern border only, then losing half of that territory, and then giving a pathetic new year speech that the survival of the country depended on it: thats where the pant issue comes up. This the opposite of looking at the situation objectively and mobilizing your public opinion.
> 
> You are right in that weapons supplies for either side are not infinite. NATO will have to produce more. And Russia is getting weapons from Iran, and North Korea. Thats not a dream, its reality
> 
> 
> A multipolar world would have been better (or what was effectively a tripolar one with China since China wasn’t aligned with Russia in its foreign policy goals).
> 
> As for seizing money, this is not the first time obviously and goes back to 1979 with the revolution Iran.
> 
> Gulf Middle Eastern countries have not shifted their investment strategies because of this. Yes they are supplying more oil to more preferred and newer alliances. The money they gain is still very much ending up in Europe where there is some confidence in the justice system, vs. giving it to countries led by strongmen who decide what will happen with their investment and when


The NATO chief is right. The ammo production must be increased to meet Ukraine ammo needs. That’s a war of attrition. The aim to kill more than being killed.

Per Putin’s secret Russia regular army now has the size of 1.15 million men, up 137,000 men. That will increase further to 1.5 million men.

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## Murray

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Susanna Viljanen
> 
> 
> Following 39 people. Asked 4 questions. Wrote 11170 answers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.quora.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Putin a product of the Russian mentality and culture?*
> 
> Definitely. The former President of Finland, Juho Kusti Paasikivi (as President 1946–1956) described the modus operandi of the Russian society as such:
> 
> "_The immutable Russian policy is to get whatever they can with the least possible effort, and then ask for more. They never sacrifice their immediate benefits for future goals. They never take into account what has been said, but what has been done. They try to exact a high price for anything that they understand they have to do in any case. They are immune to ethical, humanitarian and abstract juridical arguments, being affected only by practical and realistic points of view."_
> 
> We have a saying in Finland: “Scrath a Russian, reveal a Mongol”. The Russianness - the Russian core value set (or rather lack of it) and the idea of Russian socity is product of the Mongol Yoke - the 250 years of slavery under the Golden Horde 1237 to 1480.
> 
> No matter what the Russians themselves say about it, the Mongol Yoke was a disastrous period to the Russian society, Russian culture, Russian state apparatus and Russian mentality. This era saw Russia departing its Scandinavian and Norse roots and becoming a Central Asian society.
> 
> Do not get it wrong. The Mongols were brutal, ruthless and cruel rulers without absolutely any interest of the welfare of their subjects. They never saw their domain as a state - a thing to be protected, developed and grown rich - but rather a grounds for exctraction of riches to the ruling class. A poem of the era describes the brutal Mongol taxation:
> 
> _Hundred roubles he took from a prince
> fifty from a boyar
> one from a peasant
> Who couldn’t pay, he took his son
> who hadn’t a son, he took his wife
> who had no wife, he took himself_
> 
> One rouble equalled 1/8th of a Russian pound of silver. Inability to pay the taxes meant being taken as a slave by the Mongols. The Mongols retaliated any dissence with wanton brutally. As result, there never were any rebellions against the Mongol rule until 1378.
> 
> The only way to survive such rule was to ditch any moral compass and ethical backbone and assume moral relativity - the concept that there is no right and no wrong, but everything depends on one’s vantage point - and a similar cruelty towards one’s subordinates and similar servility towards one’s superiors as the Mongol rulers and servants demonstrated.
> 
> The Khanate never had any vestiges of rule of law, but the word of the Khan was the law. This led to arbitrariness by the ruler and the idea that violence makes right. Laws in Russia exist only to prop the status of the powerholder and as a tool to punish any subordinates who think they have any rights.
> There is only a rooster’s step from moral relativism to logical relativism: that there is no objective truth, but everything depends on who presents it. There are two words for “truth” in Russian, and three words for “lie”: “istina” means a scientific truth while “pravda” means truth as the one who insists it sees it; “lozh” means a blatant lie, “vranyo” means bullsh1tting (as a deception) and “nyepravda” as untruth. There is a constant state of greyshades between lie and truth in the Russian mind.
> 
> While the rest of the Europe assumed Feudalism and Capitalism and rule of law and restriction of the power of the ruler, Russia developed into Authoritarian Patrimonialism. This is a form of statehood which has never existed in Europe - perhaps the Ottoman Turkey is the closest thing. In Authoritarian Patrimonialism, the ruler is the supreme ruler of the land, not to be questioned by any means, he rules with force and no laws bind him, and all power springs from him. All economy is state-owned or state-controlled and there is no law-guaranteed right of ownership, but a limitless right of possession by the close circle of the rulers.
> In Authoritarian Patrimonialism, the subjects are little better than worker ants. Serfdom ended in Russia de facto only in 1974, when kolkhoz peasants got a freedom to move to towns if they wished.
> 
> Russians fail game theory. They see everything as zero-sum games and they cannot understand the concept of mutual benefit. This is why Russia can never tolerate independent Baltic states - their security is off from the Russian security and their wealth is off the Russian wealth.
> 
> Russians prefer having enemies over having friends. This is a consequence of failing the game theory. Having enemies means you are feared and thus repected; having friends means you are weak and vulnerable.
> 
> Vladimir Putin is a perfect product of this kind of society. And same inverted: Russia is astonishingly immune to any attempts to reform the society, and it always returns back into Authoritarian Patrimonialism. While Nazism was a short spell of lunacy in Germany, Communism fit to the Russian idea like a nose on a human face. Communism was a perfect application of the Authoritarian Patrimonialism - the revolution changed absolutely nothing.
> 
> Yes, and whoever will replace Putin, will replace nothing. His successor will be a similar product of the similar mentality and similar culture.


Susanna Vilianen. Authoritarian Patrimonialism. That's where you got your knowledge about the state of affairs in Russia. To explain everything with the Mongools' influence on the Russian society & mentality is simplistic, misleading and racistic., not to mention your thesis on Nazism ---"a short spell of lunacy"-- and Communism, which would be fitting to the Russian idea "like a nose on a human face" (sic)... Seriously, were you lectured and fed with such a narrative at an academic level in Finland?! Moreno Boni


----------



## Ahmadbhutta01

For me now it's best Ukrainian leaves Ukraine leave Ukraine and Russia nuke it to oblivion, well usa used nukes to end WW2 as they say LOL Russia should do the same we are never going to unipolar world never again


jhungary said:


> So if India invaded Pakistan and US come help defending Pakistan with weapon supplies and intelligence sharing, I want to know if you would think that Pakistani live are "Secondary" to USA because of that and that was just crocodile tears?? Or you would think Pakistani should rather just surrender to avoid Bloodshed instead becoming "Secondary" to the USA?
> 
> I mean you have a weird sense of nationalism.


What a lousy argument, if Pakistan builds an army base in Nepal Bangladesh and other Indian neighbouring countries India is not gonna sit and watch it will attack Pak with all it's might . U can't keep on surrounding Russia by expanding nato

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah we can easily see so many variants they made especially during the Cold War. And now Turkey has pushed it to its limit what it can. Same for other countries still using that design like Israel and South Korea. Israel has their Namer and are replacing them, think in the hundreds or thousands. Think Turkey may be building a replacement as well. The U.S. have already the Armor Multi Purpose Vehicle replacing the thousands of M113s. Helps Ukraine during and post war when giving it to them.


Yeah, I think Ukraine will most likely buy a lot of ex-US article after the war is over more than likely they will go with older generation Armour like advanced M60 or older M1..Either with US aid or in exchange of some partnership.

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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> For me now it's best Ukrainian leaves Ukraine leave Ukraine and Russia nuke it to oblivion, well usa used nukes to end WW2 as they say LOL Russia should do the same we are never going to unipolar world never again
> 
> What a lousy argument, if Pakistan builds an army base in Nepal Bangladesh and other Indian neighbouring countries India is not gonna sit and watch it will attack Pak with all it's might . U can't keep on surrounding Russia by expanding nato


How is it lousy?? Care to explain?

If Nepal and Bangladesh are willing to let Pakistan build base and joint in alliance with Pakistan. If India did invade after Nepal and Bangladesh is willing, then the world will isolate India like they did with Russia.

Again, you are talking about a *SOVERIGNTY* Nation being invaded for their Independent foreign policy, You can't invade just because you don't like what they did, it's THEIR country, not yours. That same with Russia, India or anyone. You do that, they fight back, and when they fight back, they ask for help, it's that simple. 

And in case you are wondering, this is exactly why NATO is expanding, or you really think Russian invasion is no big deal to country like Sweden or Finland that had traditionally neutral?? And evidentially they did applied to join NATO. Russia is the perfect excuse because Russia is giving it to them.

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## Viet

What’s happening to Putin’s great plan freezing Europa to death? Seems not working well.
The weather is too hot, thanks to global warming. electricity spot price 1.3 cent per kWh. Down 99 percent from the peak.
Also, natural gas, retail gasoline on downward trend, so cheap as before the war, Germany gas storage 100 percent full.










Strompreise im freien Fall – nur noch 1,3 Cent am Spotmarkt


Die Strompreise stürzen gewaltig ab. Am Spotmarkt ging es seit Mitte Dezember von 44,5 Cent je kWh auf 1,3 Cent nach unten.




www.agrarheute.com

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609850681221074945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609839830539841536

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## Broccoli

Russian telegrammers claim that up to 600 Russian soldiers died in Makiivka strike because they had stored ammunation in the basement.

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## Vergennes

Broccoli said:


> Russian telegrammers claim that up to 600 Russian soldiers died in Makiivka strike because they had stored ammunation in the basement.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609851068598427648
el famoso "close to 100% interception rate of Himars" while Russians are getting himarsed on a daily basis.

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## kingQamaR

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> Let's see how u want this war to end , a mulitipolar world where usa can switch off ur swift and ur country is economy paralyzed, or a multi polar world where usa swift isn't the only option. This war had taught many countries alot of things we should have another way can trade in other currencies , usa can have ur money seized in west declaring you oligarchs. It's good it happened sooner
> Atleast gulf middle eastern countries know now where to invest
> And most importantly Ukrainian lives are secondary to USA it's all crocodile tears




Putin has made Russia far far weaker and showed its military is nothing to fear. While getting his own people bogged down in a war he cannot win. While the west and NATO get stronger. Just keep supporting and supplying whatever those brave Ukrainians soldiers whatever they need. And after this fast track their NATO and EU membership. Russia have already lost. Finland and Sweden. Welcome to NATO. Putin is dumb

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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609851068598427648
> el famoso "close to 100% interception rate of Himars" while Russians are getting himarsed on a daily basis.


Well what did those mobiks think?
Their role is not to sleep. Their role is to be cannon fodder for Putin. 
Another success in Putins 4d chess game.

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## ZeGerman

kingQamaR said:


> Putin has made Russia far far weaker and showed its military is nothing to fear. While getting his own people bogged down in a war he cannot win. While the west and NATO get stronger. Just keep supporting and supplying whatever those brave Ukrainians soldiers whatever they need. And after this fast track their NATO and EU membership. Russia have already lost. Finland and Sweden. Welcome to NATO. Putin is dumb


Well in hindsight. 

Putin expected a repeat of Crimea invasion. A quick victory. With a well planned/timed gas shortage which would have (large parts of) EU fall back in line. 

Most analysts and other countries also gave little chances for ukraine holding out longer then a month. Underestimating ukraine and overestimating russia.

It was very risky, and longterm (pricey occupation, ongoing conflict west ukraine, west pushback) damaging…but not that stupid considering Putin was also surrounded by yes-men.

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## kingQamaR

ZeGerman said:


> Well in hindsight.
> 
> Putin expected a repeat of Crimea invasion. A quick victory. With a well planned/timed gas shortage which would have (large parts of) EU fall back in line.
> 
> Most analysts and other countries also gave little chances for ukraine holding out longer then a month. Underestimating ukraine and overestimating russia.
> 
> It was very risky, and longterm (pricey occupation, ongoing conflict west ukraine, west pushback) damaging…but not that stupid considering Putin was also surrounded by yes-men.




This war can only end in one way, Russia defeated militarily by the Ukrainians. Putin cannot agree to a peace agreement because he knows the result would be that he jumps from some high building. The West must therefore expedite the flow of modern weapons to Ukraine to end the conflict as soon as possible.

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## ZeGerman

kingQamaR said:


> This war can only end in one way, Russia defeated militarily by the Ukrainians. Putin cannot agree to a peace agreement because he knows the result would be that he jumps from some high building. The West must therefore expedite the flow of modern weapons to Ukraine to end the conflict as soon as possible.


Yeah, though with all the “fighting Nato” propaganda he might get away with a “small victory”. He still needs to have something to show for.
Annexing the 4 provinces pushed him even more into a corner though. 

Ukraine on other hand wants them back to pre 2021, or even pre 2014 lines. 

So the war will continue on unfortunately.

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## Viet

Broccoli said:


> Russian telegrammers claim that up to 600 Russian soldiers died in Makiivka strike because they had stored ammunation in the basement.


That’s ugly.
Look at the destruction. hardly anyone survived.
With more western weapons pouring in Russia casualties will hit the roof.







Bild vergrößern
Aufräumarbeiten in Makijiwka, wo zahlreiche russische Soldaten bei einem Angriff getötet worden sein sollen

Foto: Sputnik / RIA Novosti / IMAGO


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## thetutle

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> This war had taught many countries alot of things we should have another way can trade in other currencies , usa can have ur money seized in west declaring you oligarchs.


you can trade in any currency you want. no one will stop you The problem is that people that have stuff to sell, they all way Dollars or Euro. 


Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> It's good it happened sooner
> Atleast gulf middle eastern countries know now where to invest


yeah, they will invest in western countries, 


Viet said:


> What’s happening to Putin’s great plan freezing Europa to death? Seems not working well.
> The weather is too hot, thanks to global warming. electricity spot price 1.3 cent per kWh. Down 99 percent from the peak.
> Also, natural gas, retail gasoline on downward trend, so cheap as before the war, Germany gas storage 100 percent full.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strompreise im freien Fall – nur noch 1,3 Cent am Spotmarkt
> 
> 
> Die Strompreise stürzen gewaltig ab. Am Spotmarkt ging es seit Mitte Dezember von 44,5 Cent je kWh auf 1,3 Cent nach unten.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.agrarheute.com


europe is on its knees, the children all over europe cant even make a snow man because there is no snow. Some are saying because of the warm temperatues its the worst winter ever.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thermal guided missile


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609851784935374848


kingQamaR said:


> Putin has made Russia far far weaker and showed its military is nothing to fear. While getting his own people bogged down in a war he cannot win. While the west and NATO get stronger. Just keep supporting and supplying whatever those brave Ukrainians soldiers whatever they need. And after this fast track their NATO and EU membership. Russia have already lost. Finland and Sweden. Welcome to NATO. Putin is dumb



No way Finland and Sweden are getting into NATO. If they do, Turkey loses its leverage over them. NATO is just a low hanging fruit for them to do Turkey's bidding.



ZeGerman said:


> So the war will continue on unfortunately.



The war continues until Ukraine runs so low on men they cannot draft anymore to keep on fighting. Or Zelensky gets voted out of office in 2024 election and the next president signs peace treaty with Russia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> europe is on its knees, the children all over europe cant even make a snow man because there is no snow. Some are saying because of the warm temperatues its the worst winter ever.



Warm is good. Cold is bad. Cold can freeze people to death. China is warm. China is suitable for agriculture and civilization because of warm.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609830152665731075

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609910992326082561

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609813600394436608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609803304107905026

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609910992326082561



If Russian MoD admits at least +60 casualties be sure the real death toll is much more higher. 

Russian invaders getting himarsed by US weapons is the greatest payback for all the misery and destruction they brought to Ukraine.

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## jhungary

My Prediction on the Ukrainian War in 2023

1.) Russia is going to try for another offensive most likely between March to June. Most likely direction is North thru Belarus to Kyiv (If Belarussian play balls with Russian) if not then Russia would most likely try to retake Lyman in the North East. 

2.) Ukraine will focus on the current condition setting and attack Svatove and most likely open up another front in Zaporizhzhia 

3.) High Chance for Russia to lose Kreminna and Svatove before Summer. 

4.) Medium to Low chance Russia will lose Melitopol or Mariupol by Summer

5.) Medium to Low chance for Russia to be successful on the Spring Offensive

6.) Bakhmut direction will largely remain unchanged.

7.) NATO will increase weapon transfer to Ukraine.

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## Ali_Baba

USA needs to now provide the longer range HIMARS ATACMS missiles to Ukraine - they have proven to be able to use them effectively. I am not certain of the hessitation that the USA has right now for and it will help bring the war to an end even quicker.

Russia's "escalation" points against NATO are massively decreased right now through this war - so there is no need to be shy now.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> USA needs to now provide the longer range HIMARS ATACMS missiles to Ukraine - they have proven to be able to use them effectively. I am not certain of the hessitation that the USA has right now for and it will help bring the war to an end even quicker.
> 
> Russia's "escalation" points against NATO are massively decreased right now through this war - so there is no need to be shy now.



If they do that then Ukraine can target targets deep in Russia and that will escalate and cause Russia to use tactical nuclear weapons. The US don't want escalation. They want Ukraine to be able to defend itself, not attack Russia. That's why they tweeked HIMARS so the computer cannot fire into Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> USA needs to now provide the longer range HIMARS ATACMS missiles to Ukraine - they have proven to be able to use them effectively. I am not certain of the hessitation that the USA has right now for and it will help bring the war to an end even quicker.
> 
> Russia's "escalation" points against NATO are massively decreased right now through this war - so there is no need to be shy now.



Ukraine would be able to destroy a lot of key strategic targets in Crimea.


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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine would be able to destroy a lot of key strategic targets in Crimea.



Agree - the need to be shy withb providing ATACMS should be over now (imho)..


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> Agree - the need to be shy withb providing ATACMS should be over now (imho)..



Biden's oligarch handlers told him no. So he won't.



F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine would be able to destroy a lot of key strategic targets in Crimea.



Ukraine attacking Crimea = China attacking Taiwan. It will lead to world war.

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## Vergennes

The Bakhmut meat grinder.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609923221834371073

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## Horse_Rider

925boy said:


> Active or no Active S-400 doesnt matter, as long as the order to fire isnt given, and the orders to fire the S-400s in Syria WAS NEVER GIVEN, so stop confusing a political decision(not to order S400s to fire on ISraeli or NATo planes in Syria) with a technical malfunction ("S400s dont work, they're spoofed")...S400 shot down the longest Sucesful air defense hit, period, over Ukraine, taking down that Mig-29....if Russia fires the S400, it will very likely strike what it attacked- can you give us examples of were S400s fired and missed?




 You seem like a hired keyboard warrior by Russia & Syria! There is an English saying something like never come down to the level of a stupid. I firmly believe in it.

Since you have TWO American flags, perhaps you should contact the Pentagon as you seem to know everything and ask them to show you some proofs of the crap that S-400 really is, in front of the American and Israeli systems? And I'm sure it would be the same case for the French / English and German systems when the time comes for a showoff of capability!

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> you can trade in any currency you want. no one will stop you The problem is that people that have stuff to sell, they all way Dollars or Euro.
> 
> yeah, they will invest in western countries,
> 
> europe is on its knees, the children all over europe cant even make a snow man because there is no snow. Some are saying because of the warm temperatues its the worst winter ever.


Global warming is Russia’s biggest enemy.
If too warm outside who needs gas? Not to heat the houses.
Putin will sell gas with deeper discount to China.
What if Chinese stop buying? At some point the Chinese have then too much.

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## Ali_Baba

'Soldiers' who flanked Putin in New Year message 'are ACTORS'


Putin, 70, was seen in footage released by Moscow delivering his pre-recorded message in front of people dressed in army fatigues. Some viewers suggested they were actors.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Interesting break down of the fake propaganda fail by Russia on using the same actors again and again and again..

HIMARS dressed up in christmas lights giving presents to Russians.















Ukraine killed 'hundreds of Russian troops' in attack on barracks


Dozens and perhaps hundreds of Putin's mobilised troops were killed in a Ukrainian HIMARS strike on a barracks in Russian-occupied Makiivka in the eastern Donbas region.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609943398256869376


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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609943398256869376


400 deaths

Ukraine intel apparently intercepted Russians military open channel communications.

Putin’s system of corruption

He pours money elsewhere instead of buying secret channel communications equipment for his army.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609929984042323971


Viet said:


> Global warming is Russia’s biggest enemy.
> If too warm outside who needs gas? Not to heat the houses.
> Putin will sell gas with deeper discount to China.
> What if Chinese stop buying? At some point the Chinese have then too much.



Gas is mainly used for industrial use. Residential use is only a small percentage of gas use. Global warming is beneficial for Russia. It can make vast areas of Russia suitable for farming and increase Russia population from 150 million to 300 million.


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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609542630538354693
> NASAMS shot down about every Shahed drone last night over Kyiv. Thankfully the US has a huge stockpile of AMRAAMS


i also like that , it's fantastic to use 1-2 AMRAAM against each Gran-2 .


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## Dalit

Holy crap. The Russians are pissed. What will the response be? 🤔 I will be back once I have the answer...

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## mike2000 is back

Horse_Rider said:


> You seem like a hired keyboard warrior by Russia & Syria! There is an English saying something like never come down to the level of a stupid. I firmly believe in it.
> 
> Since you have TWO American flags, perhaps you should contact the Pentagon as you seem to know everything and ask them to show you some proofs of the crap that S-400 really is, in front of the American and Israeli systems? And I'm sure it would be the same case for the French / English and German systems when the time comes for a showoff of capability!


No, he is just an Iranian living in "evil" US yet he's a known Russian fanboy(even more than the Russians themselves. Lol ) and has no lost love for the US(his adopted country). The funny thing is i dont see them emigrating to Russia despote their keyboard love for Russia, they always choose to settle or immigrate to the West who they claim to despise yet they wil do everything to live or immigrate and live here and not Russia or China or Iran or North Korea. 😂 i dont even bother with people like that.

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If they do that then Ukraine can target targets deep in Russia and that will escalate and cause Russia to use tactical nuclear weapons. The US don't want escalation. They want Ukraine to be able to defend itself, not attack Russia. That's why they tweeked HIMARS so the computer cannot fire into Russia.




We need to continue helping Ukraine. I think we should move up Ukraine's ability to attack more Russian military bases and Putin called the game they should also start attacking Putin's electrical grid. Ukraine should start making Russian people suffer for Putin's war. Take out more Russian military in Russia the people will understand war better.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> We need to continue helping Ukraine. I think we should move up Ukraine's ability to attack more Russian military bases and Putin called the game they should also start attacking Putin's electrical grid. Ukraine should start making Russian people suffer for Putin's war. Take out more Russian military in Russia the people will understand war better.



If Ukraine attacks Russian civilian targets, including chip making plants, then China will get into the war and supply weapons to Russia and sanction Ukraine. 99% of Apple and Samsung phones are made in China. It will be devastating.

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## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Chinese are the most intelligent people on the planet. There is no comparison. Thousands of years of peace in China evolved men who have very little testosterone and therefore are the most intelligent. It is human biology.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605615536108294144


Asian people (not only Han Chinese) has higher IQ than Western people.

But American Ashkenazim Jewish has higher IQ than any other human group.

It's not peace what makes a people smart.

Jewish are smart because they can't afford to be stupid, they were chased all their history by evil gentiles to steal and kill them, natural selection is cruel and only the smarter survive.

By the other side, intelligency is not useful if you dont have balls (testosterone).

If you are smart and you dont have balls, you will end being the slave little bitch employee of someone smart or dumb with balls, and that explains very well American Chinese relations since Xiaoping and Kissinger opened up the commerce between both countries.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609923906265047041


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## mike2000 is back

Ali_Baba said:


> USA needs to now provide the longer range HIMARS ATACMS missiles to Ukraine - they have proven to be able to use them effectively. I am not certain of the hessitation that the USA has right now for and it will help bring the war to an end even quicker.
> 
> Russia's "escalation" points against NATO are massively decreased right now through this war - so there is no need to be shy now.


Agree. This war as already opened up any "red lines" about weapons delivery. So the US Who is the one leading western powers in supporting Ukraine has to provide Ukraine with all necessary weapons to defend their territorial intergrity. Western weapons have proven to be a nighmare for Russian forces coupled with Russian incompetent management and Ukraine’s valiant and courageous spirit to fight to defend their country. This has been a recipe for Russia getting bogged down in Ukraine. Hopedully western leaders will open the vault for some of their most sophisticated weapons systems to Ukraine. We shouldnt worry about Russia blackmail of "escalation" if we peovide sophisticated weapons anymore . They have been making similar claims and propaganda against the West helping Ukriane since they know this will only make things even worse for them. Lol



BHAN85 said:


> If you are smart and you dont have balls, you will end being the slave little bitch employee of someone smart or dumb with balls, and that explains very well American Chinese relations since Xiaoping and Kissinger opened up the commerce between both countries.


You mean China has been america's bitch? 😆

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610008100232384512

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## Corax

US and NATO intelligence led strike on the Russian strategic assets. It's a proxy war on Russia in all but name. Good for the US, pain for the Russians. Time is running out for Putin.


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## ZeGerman

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> If Ukraine attacks Russian civilian targets, including chip making plants, then China will get into the war and supply weapons to Russia and sanction Ukraine. 99% of Apple and Samsung phones are made in China. It will be devastating.


You have been constantly saying China would step in and 180 degrees change everything only for china to do….shit all.

Cause they do not support russia supporting seperatists.
Cause western customers are spending 10 times the amount russia does. 
Cause they are rightfully uneasy of a western response. 

I am sorry to disturb your wet dreams of chinese cavalry saving the day for the russians but it aint happening.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

For me now it's best Ukrainian leaves Ukraine leave Ukraine and Russia nuke it to oblivion, well usa used nukes to end WW2 as they say LOL Russia should do the same we are never going to unipolar world never again


jhungary said:


> So if India invaded Pakistan and US come help defending Pakistan with weapon supplies and intelligence sharing, I want to know if you would think that Pakistani live are "Secondary" to USA because of that and that was just crocodile tears?? Or you would think Pakistani should rather just surrender to avoid Bloodshed instead becoming "Secondary" to the USA?
> 
> I mean you have a weird sense of nationalism.


What a lousy argument, if Pakistan builds an army base in Nepal Bangladesh and other Indian neighbouring countries India is not gonna sit and watch it will attack Pak with all it's might . U can't keep on surrounding Russia by expanding nato


kingQamaR said:


> Putin has made Russia far far weaker and showed its military is nothing to fear. While getting his own people bogged down in a war he cannot win. While the west and NATO get stronger. Just keep supporting and supplying whatever those brave Ukrainians soldiers whatever they need. And after this fast track their NATO and EU membership. Russia have already lost. Finland and Sweden. Welcome to NATO. Putin is dumb





kingQamaR said:


> Putin has made Russia far far weaker and showed its military is nothing to fear. While getting his own people bogged down in a war he cannot win. While the west and NATO get stronger. Just keep supporting and supplying whatever those brave Ukrainians soldiers whatever they need. And after this fast track their NATO and EU membership. Russia have already lost. Finland and Sweden. Welcome to NATO. Putin is dumb


It's the other way round actually, it's because of Putin other countries have realized they can trade in their own currencies never happened before , why should Pak or India or Bangladesh have to buy dollars if it wants to purchase wheat or oil, now India and ksa ate trading in rupees vs riyals , and with China yuan vs riyals 
It's end of black mails by west end of dollar hegemony if it wasnt for this war

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## jhungary

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> For me now it's best Ukrainian leaves Ukraine leave Ukraine and Russia nuke it to oblivion, well usa used nukes to end WW2 as they say LOL Russia should do the same we are never going to unipolar world never again
> 
> What a lousy argument, if Pakistan builds an army base in Nepal Bangladesh and other Indian neighbouring countries India is not gonna sit and watch it will attack Pak with all it's might . U can't keep on surrounding Russia by expanding nato
> 
> 
> It's the other way round actually, it's because of Putin other countries have realized they can trade in their own currencies never happened before , why should Pak or India or Bangladesh have to buy dollars if it wants to purchase wheat or oil, now India and ksa ate trading in rupees vs riyals , and with China yuan vs riyals
> It's end of black mails by west end of dollar hegemony if it wasnt for this war


Dude, you literally just repeating what you said before, you didn't explain why it was lousy...


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## Dalit

Folks get ready. Hell is coming. 👍

Expect the Russians to unleash slaughter. It won't be merely an eye for an eye.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> You have been constantly saying China would step in and 180 degrees change everything only for china to do….shit all.
> 
> Cause they do not support russia supporting seperatists.
> Cause western customers are spending 10 times the amount russia does.
> Cause they are rightfully uneasy of a western response.
> 
> I am sorry to disturb your wet dreams of chinese cavalry saving the day for the russians but it aint happening.



National security and sovereignty trumps profit. China would rather ban Apple, GM, Ford, Boeing, HP, Dell from the Chinese market than let Anglos dictate what Chinese can or cannot do.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610036060993761280


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## kingQamaR

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> For me now it's best Ukrainian leaves Ukraine leave Ukraine and Russia nuke it to oblivion, well usa used nukes to end WW2 as they say LOL Russia should do the same we are never going to unipolar world never again
> 
> What a lousy argument, if Pakistan builds an army base in Nepal Bangladesh and other Indian neighbouring countries India is not gonna sit and watch it will attack Pak with all it's might . U can't keep on surrounding Russia by expanding nato
> 
> 
> It's the other way round actually, it's because of Putin other countries have realized they can trade in their own currencies never happened before , why should Pak or India or Bangladesh have to buy dollars if it wants to purchase wheat or oil, now India and ksa ate trading in rupees vs riyals , and with China yuan vs riyals
> It's end of black mails by west end of dollar hegemony if it wasnt for this war




Russia has massive reserves of natural resources, but only two ports capable of exporting them; both those ports, Baltic and Red Sea, are very limited and depend on the goodwill of other nations to get their goods out. Other than that they have one pipeline to China who is paying a very cut price for Russian energy. The irony is Russia was every bit as dependant on the EU as the EU was on Russia. Now the EU is already buying (more expensive) energy from other markets while Russia has little access to new markets.

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## 925boy

Dalit said:


> Holy crap. The Russians are pissed. What will the response be? 🤔 I will be back once I have the answer...


Wonder if what the Russians received was Ukranian payback for the deep surprise strike on that police barracks hosting national guard/Ukranian military personnel? closeness of both incidents seem suspicious...wow...1 or 2 himars that got through did alot of damage- this is war- losses are unavoidable.

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> Russia has massive reserves of natural resources, but only two ports capable of exporting them; both those ports, Baltic and Red Sea, are very limited and depend on the goodwill of other nations to get their goods out.


Not so fast bro- Russia has created 2 alternative routes now in addition to those 2 you mentioned - An arctic sea route,m that opened up due to global warming and Russian actions/plans, and via the caspian sea...Russia and Iran are now going full throttle on using the Caspian sea as a man conduit for trade and maritime transportation , and that is already being connected to a big Russian river the Volgograd? it connects to the Black sea, so there are other alternatives, also INSTC- India and Iran are accelerating work and plans to continue opening new trade routes via Central asia- all this sea route crap that NATo locked up is weakening at the moment- probably because trade in teh world is shifting East and so is the economic leverage that comes with that.


kingQamaR said:


> Other than that they have one pipeline to China who is paying a very cut price for Russian energy.


whining..lol.


kingQamaR said:


> The irony is Russia was every bit as dependant on the EU as the EU was on Russia.


so why is EU is worse recession than Russia now? llmao- stop whining bro- your NATO lost agaist Taliban, now so now you've graduated to fighting Russia, via Ukraine...so enjoy..must be nice.


kingQamaR said:


> Now the EU is already buying (more expensive) energy from other markets while Russia has little access to new markets.


then why is Russia's coffers full - $220bn in budget savings in 2022, and not bad inflation- still good economic indicators- shows you how weak stupid western sanctions are- Rouble got hooked to Gold by the Russian central bank and then the dollar and EU turned full pu**y and got weak- USD cant conquer Rouble anymore, even while Russia is being sanctioned by half of the developed world!

US sanctions working more and more like toothless tiger teeth- they need dentures.

Ukranians are losing more and more positions on the frontline these days it seems.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Russia has massive reserves of natural resources, but only two ports capable of exporting them; both those ports, Baltic and Red Sea, are very limited and depend on the goodwill of other nations to get their goods out. Other than that they have one pipeline to China who is paying a very cut price for Russian energy. The irony is Russia was every bit as dependant on the EU as the EU was on Russia. Now the EU is already buying (more expensive) energy from other markets while Russia has little access to new markets.



Russia has rail and highway connection with China across Amur river. It is much cheaper for transportation compared to ships.









Key Russia-China Border Railway Bridge Opens Across The Amur River - Russia Briefing News


Russia and China have commenced cross-border rail traffic across the first Amur River railway bridge, at the Nizhneleninskoye-Tongjiang border. Kirill Dmitriev, the head of the State Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF), who partially funded the bridge, said on Wednesday (November 16) that “The...



www.russia-briefing.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610032151478640641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610019223161520129

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## Ali_Baba

video of Santa HIMARS strike..


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610035511573516289

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## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> Not so fast bro- Russia has created 2 alternative routes now in addition to those 2 you mentioned - An arctic sea route,m that opened up due to global warming and Russian actions/plans, and via the caspian sea...Russia and Iran are now going full throttle on using the Caspian sea as a man conduit for trade and maritime transportation , and that is already being connected to a big Russian river the Volgograd? it connects to the Black sea, so there are other alternatives, also INSTC- India and Iran are accelerating work and plans to continue opening new trade routes via Central asia- all this sea route crap that NATo locked up is weakening at the moment- probably because trade in teh world is shifting East and so is the economic leverage that comes with that.
> 
> whining..lol.
> 
> so why is EU is worse recession than Russia now? llmao- stop whining bro- your NATO lost agaist Taliban, now so now you've graduated to fighting Russia, via Ukraine...so enjoy..must be nice.
> 
> then why is Russia's coffers full - $220bn in budget savings in 2022, and not bad inflation- still good economic indicators- shows you how weak stupid western sanctions are- Rouble got hooked to Gold by the Russian central bank and then the dollar and EU turned full pu**y and got weak- USD cant conquer Rouble anymore, even while Russia is being sanctioned by half of the developed world!
> 
> US sanctions working more and more like toothless tiger teeth- they need dentures.
> 
> Ukranians are losing more and more positions on the frontline these days it seems.



But nothing to spend it on, before it was buying tech, IT and spares for oil, defence, auto, aero and business, now it’s limited to unlicensed products. So it may have cash, but internally the people have limited choices, internal market shrinks, logistics & supply disolve and businesses closes, unemployment rises, the economy crashes, Soviet style economy takes over, happening now.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> But nothing to spend it on, before it was buying tech, IT and spares for oil, defence, auto, aero and business, now it’s limited to unlicensed products. So it may have cash, but internally the people have limited choices, internal market shrinks, logistics & supply disolve and businesses closes, unemployment rises, the economy crashes, Soviet style economy takes over, happening now.



Russia has a lot of investment from China. And that's building up the human resources and capital. Soon China will have 7nm chips. And that's really going to shoot Russia's high tech sector sky high. Russia in 10 years will make the USSR look like a child's play.

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609575305814884355
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609575313092001793


Yeah, not happening. Lmao
Hungary gets too much money from the EU. Orban isn't an idiot.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609720041540571136

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610060213830258688


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610032151478640641

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610032151478640641



Could be Tornado-S or Iskander strike to make such big explosion.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610045133835362305


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609467828784037889

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609967390858641408

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## Dalit

925boy said:


> Wonder if what the Russians received was Ukranian payback for the deep surprise strike on that police barracks hosting national guard/Ukranian military personnel? closeness of both incidents seem suspicious...wow...1 or 2 himars that got through did alot of damage- this is war- losses are unavoidable.



No matter what. Absolute carnage is on it's way. The Russian sentiment is clear. They are seething at their losses.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609967390858641408



Welcome back brother.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608727357908570113

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609967390858641408



Damn. That's brutal. Imagine what a Kornet can do.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608785411182149633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608794086240124928


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610063861578702853


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608936400564396037

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610039450859626498

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610036060993761280

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## The SC

A lot of interesting updates..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609282412281839616

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610057622031585280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610056157116379137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610054594083840005

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609374678086197249

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2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609593484104683520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609594791402115072


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609936080874209289


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610026686996692993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610025617948286976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610027948160974848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610025964171571202

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610027487739641856

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609642934244200448

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## khansaheeb

Is NATO fighting in Ukraine, this polish doctor is in full fatigue?:-


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610017244301651968

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Dalit said:


> No matter what. Absolute carnage is on it's way. The Russian sentiment is clear. They are seething at their losses.
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome back brother.



👍

Thanks brother. I was unjustly banned, but it was a short time, roughly a week. So I'm back.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609992578027655169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610033782094204929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610024319517691904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609834037362688000

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thermobaric Kornet kill infantry


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610076069217935363


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609963480404185092

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609962453072224258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609910237053566976

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609992578027655169
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610033782094204929
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610024319517691904
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609834037362688000



Love it. Keep the fighting going, boys: no action, no grinding, no kabob.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609930080611962886

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609870747538968576

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## Hassan Al-Somal

This is how it all began in the Donbas region. The Ukrainian government under *Poroshenko *was shelling this Russian-speaking city of Donetsk in 2014. It seems Western media leaders either have short memory or they deliberately chose to misinform their audience and the world about the aggression that the Ukrainian government was committing against the Russian-speaking communities in the East of Ukraine (The Donbass region). 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609202292472832000

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> Not so fast bro- Russia has created 2 alternative routes now in addition to those 2 you mentioned - An arctic sea route,m that opened up due to global warming and Russian actions/plans, and via the caspian sea...Russia and Iran are now going full throttle on using the Caspian sea as a man conduit for trade and maritime transportation , and that is already being connected to a big Russian river the Volgograd? it connects to the Black sea, so there are other alternatives, also INSTC- India and Iran are accelerating work and plans to continue opening new trade routes via Central asia- all this sea route crap that NATo locked up is weakening at the moment- probably because trade in teh world is shifting East and so is the economic leverage that comes with that.
> 
> whining..lol.
> 
> so why is EU is worse recession than Russia now? llmao- stop whining bro- your NATO lost agaist Taliban, now so now you've graduated to fighting Russia, via Ukraine...so enjoy..must be nice.
> 
> then why is Russia's coffers full - $220bn in budget savings in 2022, and not bad inflation- still good economic indicators- shows you how weak stupid western sanctions are- Rouble got hooked to Gold by the Russian central bank and then the dollar and EU turned full pu**y and got weak- USD cant conquer Rouble anymore, even while Russia is being sanctioned by half of the developed world!
> 
> US sanctions working more and more like toothless tiger teeth- they need dentures.
> 
> Ukranians are losing more and more positions on the frontline these days it seems.


Computer sales down by 25%. Autoproduction down by 50%. Industrial slow down is the impact that will be felt in 1-2 years. You can't run a country just by having cash in the bank. The sanctions may not be perfect but adversary always feel it has to do something. It has had some effect in the sense those purchasing oil are doing it at a discount.

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## Stranagor

Dalit said:


> Holy crap. The Russians are pissed. What will the response be? 🤔 I will be back once I have the answer...



Probably they will release more war draft propaganda, promising newest iPhone in compensation for the dead.

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is how it all began in the Donbas region. The Ukrainian government under *Poroshenko *was shelling this Russian-speaking city of Donetsk in 2014. It seems Western media leaders either have short memory or they deliberately chose to misinform their audience and the world about the aggression that the Ukrainian government was committing against the Russian-speaking communities in the East of Ukraine (The Donbass region).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609202292472832000



By this token, Spain would be justified to claim every country in South America except Brazil.
Speaking the language of a minority population does not imply territory has to be part of Russia. And if it did, then stated aim of this operation would be to save Russian speakers, not because Ukraine was getting closet to NATO. Forget about CNN, seems not even Kremlin cared about the reasoning and you are the only one towing this line by yourself.\


----------



## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> If you are smart and you dont have balls, you will end being the slave little bitch employee of someone smart or dumb with balls, and that explains very well American Chinese relations since Xiaoping and Kissinger opened up the commerce between both countries



You basically describe all developing countries. 

Other than cheap manufacturing, cheap resource extraction is another way to survive and prosper. 

Putin seems to be killing the golden egg laying goose.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Computer sales down by 25%. Autoproduction down by 50%. Industrial slow down is the impact that will be felt in 1-2 years. You can't run a country just by having cash in the bank. The sanctions may not be perfect but adversary always feel it has to do something. It has had some effect in the sense those purchasing oil are doing it at a discount.



Technology is a double edged sword. No high tech society survives for long. Electronics kill off sperm and eggs. That's why American birth rate is so low. Amish reject modern technology and live life to the fullest. Fewer electronics does wonders for Russians.

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## Stranagor

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> t's the other way round actually, it's because of Putin other countries have realized they can trade in their own currencies never happened before , why should Pak or India or Bangladesh have to buy dollars if it wants to purchase wheat or oil, now India and ksa ate trading in rupees vs riyals , and with China yuan vs riyals



USD still represents some 60 pct of global trade. It is the dominant reserve currency. It difficult to dethrone USD even if the US wanted it. USD losing share in global currency reserve would actually benefit the manufacturing sector in the US, while hurting finance and foreign policy establishment. It would be first China, Japan and the likes opposing do away with the USD as reserve currency.

US has immense financial advantages: 1. Deep, extensive financial market/services. 2. One of the best corporate governance system. 3. And one of the most open financial system which the least discriminates between local and foreign investors. 

So, as they say, currency wars are class wars. And guess which class the Chinese and Russian elite belong to.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Stranagor said:


> USD still represents some 60 pct of global trade. It is the dominant reserve currency. It difficult to dethrone USD even if the US wanted it. USD losing share in global currency reserve would actually benefit the manufacturing sector in the US, while hurting finance and foreign policy establishment. It would be first China, Japan and the likes opposing do away with the USD as reserve currency.
> 
> US has immense financial advantages: 1. Deep, extensive financial market/services. 2. One of the best corporate governance system. 3. And one of the most open financial system which the least discriminates between local and foreign investors.
> 
> So, as they say, currency wars are class wars. And guess which class the Chinese and Russian elite belong to.



The only thing Americans can do is print money. American internal and external debt is crushing. American young people can't even afford college debt, buy housing, raise kids.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610102640444334080

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610134701712211969


----------



## Stranagor

Dalit said:


> Folks get ready. Hell is coming. 👍
> 
> Expect the Russians to unleash slaughter. It won't be merely an eye for an eye.



Russia may try to slaughter civilians like they did in Chechnya, but Ukrainians have proven themselves to be more than a match in terms of mobilizing international assistance. 

Besides, if it were eye for an eye, Ukraine should invade parts of Russia.

Until then, it is simply a national independence war.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> National security and sovereignty trumps profit. China would rather ban Apple, GM, Ford, Boeing, HP, Dell from the Chinese market than let Anglos dictate what Chinese can or cannot do.



The party would try. But people would oppose. They would smuggle GM trucks via Hong Kong.

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## Stranagor

Dalit said:


> No matter what. Absolute carnage is on it's way. The Russian sentiment is clear. They are seething at their losses



As if this is their first 400+ loss in the war. 

They don't care...

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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609642934244200448



He says Ukrainian people will defend their homeland no matter what (to the last person), which even the Western leadership did not think would be the case initially.

Weren't other national liberation movements the same? 

In the 16 to 19th centuries, North Caucasian people did fight to the last person, genocide by Russia. Unfortunately, they didn't have the same support Ukraine has now. Even the Ottoman Empire had to betray them. Also, their numbers were too small. 

Ukraine will decimate the last Russian invader, that's for sure. Russia won't achieve another Caucasus-like victory in Eastern Europe.


----------



## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609930080611962886
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609870747538968576



India buys the Ural blend at a sharp discount, 30 USD/barrel. Hard to resist not to skin the bear. 

Yet, Russian state revenue from energy exports has shrunk.

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## Hack-Hook

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Damn. That's brutal. Imagine what a Kornet can do.


exact same thing to that tank


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609950324583960581

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609839572828971009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609846802416820225


aviator_fan said:


> By this token, Spain would be justified to claim every country in South America except Brazil.
> Speaking the language of a minority population does not imply territory has to be part of Russia. And if it did, then stated aim of this operation would be to save Russian speakers, not because Ukraine was getting closet to NATO. Forget about CNN, seems not even Kremlin cared about the reasoning and you are the only one towing this line by yourself.\




Defending the communities in the Donbass region was one of the main reasons that Russia invaded Ukraine in addition to Ukraine being a neutral state and not allow NATO to setup a shop. There were other reasons such as the de-nazification of Ukraine. Russian stated goals were very clear and there were no ambiguity to any of them.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610166321517584384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610169865998077953


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609930080611962886


low IQ propaganda from you again.

It is well known that because there are fewer buyers…russia has to give serious discount to India and China.



Russia Oil Revenues Dropped in November Amid Discounts, IEA Says



Let alone the shortfall in gas reliant on pipelines.


Ofcourse the high demand of oil and gas gives russia a trump card keeping them afloat. But so far the economic warfare on that is far from decided.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> National security and sovereignty trumps profit. China would rather ban Apple, GM, Ford, Boeing, HP, Dell from the Chinese market than let Anglos dictate what Chinese can or cannot do.


You have been consistently wrong.

China had done little else then some empty supporting words and buying discounted gas and oil.
For a year now.

Russia is not worth it for China to destroy their trade/relations with the West at this time. Simple as that.

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## Ali_Baba

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Technology is a double edged sword. No high tech society survives for long. Electronics kill off sperm and eggs. That's why American birth rate is so low. Amish reject modern technology and live life to the fullest. Fewer electronics does wonders for Russians.



Excellent - you are back to how Russian women opening their legs for their men folk will help Russia win this war  ..

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## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609839572828971009
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609846802416820225
> 
> 
> 
> Defending the communities in the Donbass region was one of the main reasons that Russia invaded Ukraine in addition to Ukraine being a neutral state and not allow NATO to setup a shop. There were other reasons such as the de-nazification of Ukraine. Russian stated goals were very clear and there were no ambiguity to any of them.



Please , Read the Minsk agreements and get back to me. You'll find that you have been misinformed by third parties if you think that they propose no further NATO expansion. Also. Let us not forget that Ukraine was already refused NATO membership in 2008. So , Are you the misinformed or the liar?

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## Stranagor

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The only thing Americans can do is print money. American internal and external debt is crushing. American young people can't even afford college debt, buy housing, raise kids.



As if other countries finances are all healthy. The US has advantages and disadvantages. Some argue high saving tendency of the Japanese is a disadvantage. 20pct of youth unemployment in China may be advantage for some and disadvantage for others. US debt may be bad, but it is the price for being reserve currency against which countries like China, Japan or Taiwan keep their currencies artificially low. Global economy is a balancing act; what matters is whether the system in general is healthy or not. Invasion of the Ukraine may make laymen in Russia poor, but not necessarily the elite, or energy and defense industries. So losing or winning is relative.

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609929984042323971
> 
> 
> Gas is mainly used for industrial use. Residential use is only a small percentage of gas use. Global warming is beneficial for Russia. It can make vast areas of Russia suitable for farming and increase Russia population from 150 million to 300 million.


Gas use in homes and industrial sector is almost the same. 31 percent vs 37 percent.


----------



## Stranagor

Russian anger is rising over deadly Ukrainian strikes that killed dozens of Moscow’s soldiers, and some lawmakers are demanding punishment for commanders that they say put troops in danger.









Russian anger over deadly Ukrainian strike; Zelenskyy says Moscow aims to 'exhaust' Ukraine with attacks


Some Russian lawmakers are demanding punishment for commanders they say put troops in danger.




www.cnbc.com





***

Putin should order those commanders to climb into a hotel room at 13th floor and stand very close to the window.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610142355805376513


ZeGerman said:


> Russia is not worth it for China to destroy their trade/relations with the West at this time.



Beggars can't be choosers. 99.9% Apple, Samsung, Google phones are made in China. If the US sanctions China, the US will have major phone shortage within a month. Biden will be voted out of office when spoiled American young people have no phone left.



ZeGerman said:


> Ofcourse the high demand of oil and gas gives russia a trump card keeping them afloat. But so far the economic warfare on that is far from decided.



Russians learned from Americans. Print money. Even if Russia does not sell any oil, Russia has plenty of money.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> China had done little else then some empty supporting words and buying discounted gas and oil.



China supplies consumer electronics and cars to Russian civilians, without which Putin would be voted out of office when spoiled Russian young people have no phone and car left. It is China that keeps Putin in power.

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> China supplies consumer electronics and cars to Russian civilians, without which Putin would be voted out of office when spoiled Russian young people have no phone and car left. It is China that keeps Putin in power.




China should be trying to build Bridges - Not Burn Them Like Russia!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> China should be trying to build Bridges - Not Burn Them Like Russia!



We Chinese are the world's oldest continuous civilization. We Chinese evolved in peace for thousands of years. We Chinese have no male female size difference. We Chinese men don't beat women. We Chinese are peaceful people. It is how we Chinese survived while others perished. It is Anglos who want war with Chinese. We Chinese have the right to defend ourselves, like we did when we exterminated Hun invaders and built the great wall.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610283207651479555

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610285116403613697


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## 925boy

aviator_fan said:


> Computer sales down by 25%. Autoproduction down by 50%. Industrial slow down is the impact that will be felt in 1-2 years. You can't run a country just by having cash in the bank.


SO how is RUssia being run THEN?? i mean thats the reality meanwhile your point is theory, because the reality shows that RUssia is economically resillent NOW, meanwhile, US will probably default on its debt soon...Peter Schiff already said it within the past week too- are you one of those people that only said US lost AFghanistan after it withdrew after 20 years of failures there and then saying Russia has lost when the war isnt a year old and isnt over yet?


aviator_fan said:


> The sanctions may not be perfect but adversary always feel it has to do something.


huh? the sanctions backfired AND upset the global world order- Russia will get most of the things the EU and US sell it from other countries- China and India will most likely fulfil Russia's long term needs- welcome to the new world order- your sanctions ordered it!


aviator_fan said:


> It has had some effect in the sense those purchasing oil are doing it at a discount.


not having a strong effect because US is economically weaker today, sanctions are wearing off like cheap drugs, and other countries are finding alternative business solutions and trade routes and methods.


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## Soldier35

Russian snipers began to use in Ukraine, the longest-range rifle in the world SVLK-14S "Dusk". The Russian Lobaev rifle with a caliber of 10.3 × 77 mm allows accurate shooting at a distance of up to 4210 meters, the shot was fired to set a world record. The weapon weighs almost 10 kg and has a length of 1570 mm. The price of the rifle in the basic configuration is $ 27,000.






Footage of a combat sortie of Russian Mi-28 helicopters in Ukraine. During the sortie, helicopters hit a stronghold of the Ukrainian army and an armored car.






The calculation of the Russian S-300V air defense system spoke about their combat vehicle and the targets that they managed to shoot down in Ukraine. The video shows an early version of the S-300V air defense system, the 9A82 launcher, which was put into service as part of the S-300V complex in 1988. The number of these installations released is more than 1200.






The United States will transfer one Patriot MIM-104B air defense system to Ukraine. There are currently two modifications of the Patriot in service with the American Armed Forces: the PAC-2 and the updated PAC-3, most likely the PAC-2 version will be transferred. Training for the calculation of the Patriot air defense system takes 6 months, but it will be accelerated in Germany in a few weeks. The air defense system was put into service in 1982, in terms of the range of destruction, and the version of the PAC-2 missiles has 160 kilometers, the air defense system can be attributed to the medium-range complex. It is assumed that the air defense system will protect against UAVs and cruise missiles, most likely it will be installed deep in the rear. The experience of using the air defense system showed that the complex had problems with the defeat of the UAV, which manifested itself in Saudi Arabia, but this is a topic for a separate discussion, it is worth noting that the air defense system is designed primarily to destroy aircraft and missiles. The air defense system has a minimum target interception altitude of 60 meters, the minimum flight altitude of Caliber missiles is 20 meters, and the flight altitude of Geran-2 drones is also 60 meters. The maximum radar target identification range is 35-50 km at a target flight altitude of 50-100 meters, high-altitude targets are detected at a distance of up to 180 kilometers. The strength of the air defense system is the control system that ensures the use of the Patriot air defense system together with airborne early warning and guidance aircraft of the AWACS type. In such a situation, the Patriot can be in complete radar silence until the very last moment - until it receives target designation from AWACS. The anti-aircraft battery of the Patriot air defense system consists of 4 or 8 launchers, depending on the modification, with 4 missiles on each. On tests of the Patriot PAC-3 air defense system in 1997. The probability of hitting an aircraft with one missile was 80-90%, tactical missiles - from 60 to 80%, the PAC-2 version has a probability of 30-40%. The maximum target interception range is up to 160 km, with a maximum altitude of up to 24 km. The minimum interception range is 3 km, the minimum interception height is 60 meters. The cost of one battery of the Patriot air defense system is from 500 million to a billion dollars, the cost of missiles is from 2 to 4 million dollars per 1 piece. SAM is in service with many countries.


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## Lehrasap

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609839572828971009
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609846802416820225
> 
> 
> 
> Defending the communities in the Donbass region was one of the main reasons that Russia invaded Ukraine in addition to Ukraine being a neutral state and not allow NATO to setup a shop. There were other reasons such as the de-nazification of Ukraine. Russian stated goals were very clear and there were no ambiguity to any of them.



Russia is asking those rights for Russian minority, which it itself never gave to the minorities in Russia. 
It never allowed the minorities to use their regional languages as the mode of education in the schools and universities or for official use. But demands this right for Russians in Ukraine. 
These double standards are never going to be digested by Russia.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> My Prediction on the Ukrainian War in 2023
> 
> 1.) Russia is going to try for another offensive most likely between March to June. Most likely direction is North thru Belarus to Kyiv (If Belarussian play balls with Russian) if not then Russia would most likely try to retake Lyman in the North East.
> 
> 2.) Ukraine will focus on the current condition setting and attack Svatove and most likely open up another front in Zaporizhzhia
> 
> 3.) High Chance for Russia to lose Kreminna and Svatove before Summer.
> 
> 4.) Medium to Low chance Russia will lose Melitopol or Mariupol by Summer
> 
> 5.) Medium to Low chance for Russia to be successful on the Spring Offensive
> 
> 6.) Bakhmut direction will largely remain unchanged.
> 
> 7.) NATO will increase weapon transfer to Ukraine.


I agree. Putin’s principal goals have not changed. Demilitarization, denazi, de-NATO, annexation large parts of Ukraine, security assurance, expelling Nato from the east bloc, expelling the US nuclear arsenals from Central Europe. He will order the army to resume attacks on Ukraine north towards Kiew. East and south towards Kharkiv, Kherson and Odessa.


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## MrHyperForEver

Viet said:


> Ah that’s nothing. The Wagner hooligans attacking Bakhmut since how long? 6 months? How many of them have died? Thousands of thousands, just to gain some hundreds meters useless roads and ruins.
> 
> Prigoshin, hooligan chief himself is doing everything, sacrificing thousands to lick Putin’s boots. Seems he has some successes. Putin gives him some North Korea missiles.


Not thousands of thousands dear. Wagner PMC has opted the tactic of attacking occasionally not always (not much of those frontal assults we saw earlier in war). They might loose a considerable number of men but as I said they aren't loosing all the time. They are extremely cautious although in Mid December they did very furious and a large number of attacks but it is not even comparable to those unplanned uncoordinated attacks done by Russians earlier in this conflict.



Viet said:


> I agree. Putin’s goals have not changed. He will resume attacks on Ukraine north towards Kiew. East and south towards Kharkiv, Kherson and Odessa.



Putin goals have changed, now his plan is to get a face saving not a practically impossible full blown victory.

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## Viet

MrHyperForEver said:


> Not thousands of thousands dear. Wagner PMC has opted the tactic of attacking occasionally not always (not much of those frontal assults we saw earlier in war). They might loose a considerable number of men but as I said they aren't loosing all the time. They are extremely cautious although in Mid December they did very furious and a large number of attacks but it is not even comparable to those unplanned uncoordinated attacks done by Russians earlier in this conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin goals have changed, now his plan is to get a face saving not a practically impossible full blown victory.


maybe but there is no indication Putin has changed his minds. He says he is willing to negotiate but did not tell under which conditions. His loyal dogs Larov, Peskow repeat Russia’s maximum demands. Larov even says if Ukraine refuses to surrender Russia army will do the necessary.

The Wagners are a group of hooligans, prisoners, gangsters. they have no regular military trainings. They are not part of the army. They are just there to die worthless deaths.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610284014212112385


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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> maybe but there is no indication Putin has changed his minds. He says he is willing to negotiate but did not tell under which conditions. His loyal dogs Larov, Peskow repeat Russia’s maximum demands. Larov even says if Ukraine refuses to surrender Russia army will do the necessary.
> 
> The Wagners are a group of hooligans, prisoners, gangsters. they have no regular military trainings. They are not part of the army. They are just there to die worthless deaths.



RUSSIA has always been a bully country in Europe in its entire history. It has always wanted to steal some land from its neighbours or just invade them and claim it's Russian. Or to impose its political system, which is a mixture of nationalism, kleptocracy, oligarchy and racketeering. I only hope NO free world politicians will get lured by Russian money or resources and try to do business with or rebuild Russia. West BOYCOTT RUSSIA on every possible level - economical, cultural, tourist or social. ENOUGH of Russian subversion, misinformation, internet-hacking, blackmail, atrocities and brazen lies!

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## Hack-Hook

Soldier35 said:


> Russian snipers began to use in Ukraine, the longest-range rifle in the world SVLK-14S "Dusk". The Russian Lobaev rifle with a caliber of 10.3 × 77 mm allows accurate shooting at a distance of up to 4210 meters, the shot was fired to set a world record. The weapon weighs almost 10 kg and has a length of 1570 mm. The price of the rifle in the basic configuration is $ 27,000.


that is debatable , we have a sniper rifle called Arash that fire 20x120mm bullet and have a maximum range of 7 km and can destroy a moving helicopter 2km away which I believe is more than the range and power of SVLK-14S "Dusk"


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610188756920721410


kingQamaR said:


> RUSSIA has always been a bully country in Europe in its entire history. It has always wanted to steal some land from its neighbours or just invade them and claim it's Russian. Or to impose its political system, which is a mixture of nationalism, kleptocracy, oligarchy and racketeering. I only hope NO free world politicians will get lured by Russian money or resources and try to do business with or rebuild Russia. West BOYCOTT RUSSIA on every possible level - economical, cultural, tourist or social. ENOUGH of Russian subversion, misinformation, internet-hacking, blackmail, atrocities and brazen lies!



Europeans evolved in thousands of years of war. European men are much bigger than European women. By contrast, Chinese men and women are the same size because Chinese evolved in thousands of years of peace. Chimps which evolved north of Congo river is war like and males are much bigger than females. Chimps which evolved south of Congo river is peaceful and there is no size difference between males and females. Europeans are biologically adapted to war.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> I agree. Putin’s principal goals have not changed. Demilitarization, denazi, de-NATO, annexation large parts of Ukraine, security assurance, expelling Nato from the east bloc, expelling the US nuclear arsenals from Central Europe. He will order the army to resume attacks on Ukraine north towards Kiew. East and south towards Kharkiv, Kherson and Odessa.


so as I predicted we have a Never-Ending war in Europe.



Viet said:


> maybe but there is no indication Putin has changed his minds. He says he is willing to negotiate but did not tell under which conditions. His loyal dogs Larov, Peskow repeat Russia’s maximum demands. Larov even says if Ukraine refuses to surrender Russia army will do the necessary.
> 
> The Wagners are a group of hooligans, prisoners, gangsters. they have no regular military trainings. They are not part of the army. *They are just there to die worthless deaths.*


I don't think so , that's the role of Mobilized personnel



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610284014212112385


I see two escaped one injured , the rest, well RIP, excepted thermobaric rounds be more effective



kingQamaR said:


> RUSSIA has always been a bully country in Europe in its entire history. It has always wanted to steal some land from its neighbours or just invade them and claim it's Russian. Or to impose its political system, which is a mixture of nationalism, kleptocracy, oligarchy and racketeering.


and the rest of Europe powers did not have such tendencies ?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hack-Hook said:


> and the rest of Europe powers did not have such tendencies ?



Historically, Western Europeans invaded Russia under Napoleon and Hitler. The only time Russia invaded Western Europe was during WW2.


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## MrHyperForEver

Viet said:


> maybe but there is no indication Putin has changed his minds. He says he is willing to negotiate but did not tell under which conditions. His loyal dogs Larov, Peskow repeat Russia’s maximum demands. Larov even says if Ukraine refuses to surrender Russia army will do the necessary.
> 
> The Wagners are a group of hooligans, prisoners, gangsters. they have no regular military trainings. They are not part of the army. They are just there to die worthless deaths.


The prisoners and gangsters which are newly recruited are being deployed on defensive positions. While the elite and experienced mercenaries of Wagner PMC are deployed in Bakhmut as part of assult/storm groups.

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## MrHyperForEver

*Russia🇷🇺Ukraine🇺🇦 War🔥 Update*

✔️ *Bakhmut*: Ukrainian and Russian troops furiously battle in and around Bakhmut. After being reinforced with men and material as reported by British Ministry of Defense, Ukrainian troops hold the line against Wagner PMC repeated attempts to breakthrough. Georgian, American and Belarusian volunteers help AFU in Bakhmut Sector. It seems that Russians are focusing more on South of Bakhmut instead of assults from East. Both Ukraine and Russia loose men on Large scale.

✔️ *Kherson*: Ukraine claims Russians are extracting some troops from Kherson front to other areas. Russia claims that they destroyed multiple recon and assult units of Enemy near Lyman and other areas. Ukraine says Russians are trying to better there tactical situation near Lyman.

✔️ *Zaporozhia*: Fighting continues, it looks like Russians are somewhat trying to move the front but theu face stiff Ukrainian resistance.

✔️ *Marinka*: As always deadly brutal urban combat continues. Town reduced to rubble.

✔️ Ukraine and Russia both do over hyped claims. Russia says it destroyed 2 HIMRAS with 800 MRLS rockets and also 3 M777 howitzers. Ukraine also claims to destroy all Iranian drones launched by Russians as well as destruction of 4 weapon and fuel depots.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610252620001677313

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## MrHyperForEver

*The recent 🇺🇦 HIMRAS strike on Makeevka has led to increased criticism of Russian 🇷🇺 military leadership.*

Russia 🇷🇺 admits that 63 of its personal died in the strike by AFU 🇺🇦. While AFU itself says the losses in the strike number up to 600 casualties. Many OSINT and conflict watch sources suggest the casualties to be 100-250.

Following is the satellite footage of the school used by Russian newly conscripted troops after and before the strike was carried out.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MrHyperForEver said:


> *The recent 🇺🇦 HIMRAS strike on Makeevka has led to increased criticism of Russian 🇷🇺 military leadership.*
> 
> Russia 🇷🇺 admits that 63 of its personal died in the strike by AFU 🇺🇦. While AFU itself says the losses in the strike number up to 600 casualties. Many OSINT and conflict watch sources suggest the casualties to be 100-250.
> 
> Following is the satellite footage of the school used by Russian newly conscripted troops after and before the strike was carried out.



So now Ukrainians are demolishing their schools and hospitals with HIMARS


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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> RUSSIA has always been a bully country in Europe in its entire history. It has always wanted to steal some land from its neighbours or just invade them and claim it's Russian. Or to impose its political system, which is a mixture of nationalism, kleptocracy, oligarchy and racketeering. I only hope NO free world politicians will get lured by Russian money or resources and try to do business with or rebuild Russia. West BOYCOTT RUSSIA on every possible level - economical, cultural, tourist or social. ENOUGH of Russian subversion, misinformation, internet-hacking, blackmail, atrocities and brazen lies!


That’s something I don’t understand. They don’t lack of lands and resources, why trying stealing more lands and stuffs from other people? The only explanation for this greed I have is they are driven by resentment.
Despite plentiful of lands and resources Russia remains as a relative poor, weak and less developed country. If taking away oil, gas, nukes why will be Russia? Nothing.

The only escape route is deceit and war. That’s exactly what Putin has in minds in his new year speech. He sees the history on his side, when he pursues “historic Russia”. Ukraine, Belarus have no right to exist. Same for Finland, the Baltic, Georgia. Poland and other ex soviet republics. International treaties, sovereignty don’t fit in this “historic” concept.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610329466491772934


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610353616308654080


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## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> that is debatable , we have a sniper rifle called Arash that fire 20x120mm bullet and have a maximum range of 7 km and can destroy a moving helicopter 2km away which I believe is more than the range and power of SVLK-14S "Dusk"


Is that what they use on female protesters In Iran?


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## A.P. Richelieu

Ryska trollfabriker sprängda i Ukraina – mängder av svenska sim-kort hittade


Ukrainsk polis uppger att de sprängt flera ryska trollfabriker och beslagtagit över 100 000 sim-kort som ska ha använts för att skapa mer än 1,5 miljoner falska konton i syfte att sprida desinformation på nätet. Många av kontantkorten ser ut att komma från svenska Comviq och Lycamobile. – Vi...




www.svt.se





*Russian troll factories blown up in Ukraine - lots of Swedish sim cards found*

Ukrainian police say they have blown up several Russian troll factories and seized over 100,000 SIM cards allegedly used to create more than 1.5 million fake accounts to spread disinformation online. Many of the cash cards appear to come from Swedish Comviq and Lycamobile.
- We naturally think it is regrettable, says Fredrik Hallstan, head of communications at Tele2, to SVT Nyheter.
Thousands of cash cards, in sacks and stacked in cupboards, and a multitude of connected mobile phones and mobile broadband. The video, which has been published by the Cyber Police Department of the National Police of Ukraine, shows armed police raiding Russian troll factories, in a nationwide operation dubbed "Bot Factories."







"During the house searches, over 100,000 SIM cards were seized which were used to register fake accounts. In total, the bot network had more than one and a half million accounts in various social networks, email services and messaging. Bots were registered to spread inaccuracies and propaganda, pro-Russian stories," the police write in a press release.

A total of 13 suspected troll factories are said to have been shut down in connection with the operation.

"Can assume that a Comviq card was used"
Among the cash cards are packaging from Lycamobile with Swedish text on it and stacks of SIM cards from Swedish Comviq, a brand owned by Tele2.

- We can assume that Comviq cards have been used for something that is criminal activity in this factory, says communications manager Fredrik Hallstan.

Many platforms require a phone number to register an account, according to Per-Erik Nilsson, researcher in information warfare and strategic communication at FOI. For example, Telegram, which was used a lot during the war. According to him, there is also value in the fact that information appears to come from more countries than Ukraine.

- It is the classic propagandist thing, to polarize, sow splits or to lay smoke and fog curtains that benefit Russia in various ways, says Nilsson.

Monitors data
After the outbreak of war, Comviq introduced free calls to and from Ukraine, so that people on the run can more easily get in touch with each other.

- If it has been used and exploited by something that could be thought of as criminal activity, we naturally take it very seriously, says Fredrik Hallstan.

In the past, it has been relatively easy to get a SIM card in Sweden without registering. After 1 August 2022, however, it is no longer possible to buy unregistered and anonymous prepaid cards for mobile phones or mobile broadband.

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## bobo6661

That Guy said:


> Yeah, not happening. Lmao
> Hungary gets too much money from the EU. Orban isn't an idiot.


Its not about money they getting. Its about the free trade if they leave EU companys will just leave production cost would spike in hungary . Orban would kill his country leaving EU.

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## Ali_Baba

Dramatic moment Russian ammunition depot is blown to smithereens


Aerial footage shows the moment an ammunition depot is blown up in another devastating blow to Russian forces in eastern Ukraine.




www.express.co.uk





>> Another Russian Ammo depo blown up in occupied Ukraine .


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## That Guy

bobo6661 said:


> Its not about money they getting. Its about the free trade if they leave EU companys will just leave production cost would spike in hungary . Orban would kill his country leaving EU.


Both things can be true. Hungary gets a shit ton of subsidize from the EU, so it's not insignificant.

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## The SC

The Ukrainians have lost 4 Himars and 4 Vampires and many other artillery last night..and many updates on the coming Russian attack from the north by the Head of the Ukrainian military in Khakiv and the British intelligence..So many interesting projections..

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> The Ukrainians have lost 4 Himars and 4 Vampires and many other artillery last night..and many updates on the coming Russian attack from the north by the Head of Khakiv and the British intelligence..


No evidence of Himars destruction, nor the vampires.

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## kingQamaR

So all these Russian bots on here are claiming that Ukrainian troops are getting slaughtered, all their weapons are being destroyed, and that everything negative said about Russian forces is a lie? So if all that is true why does Russia only control 15% of Ukraine after nearly a year of war? Weird. Russia controlled 25% of Ukraine in March 22, now 15% in January 23. Is the Russian army so bad it can't gain territory against Ukrainians with no weapons who are dying in mass? You bots need like a mandatory training course or something, your logic capabilities are quiet poor.

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## That Guy

kingQamaR said:


> So all these Russian bots on here are claiming that Ukrainian troops are getting slaughtered, all their weapons are being destroyed, and that everything negative said about Russian forces is a lie? So if all that is true why does Russia only control 15% of Ukraine after nearly a year of war? Weird. Russia controlled 25% of Ukraine in March 22, now 15% in January 23. Is the Russian army so bad it can't gain territory against Ukrainians with no weapons who are dying in mass? You bots need like a mandatory training course or something, your logic capabilities are quiet poor.


No no, you don't understand. The Russians aren't retreating, they're advancing backwards. Putin is a master strategist. When the Ukrainians besiege Moscow, Putin will strategically lock himself in his own bunker and proceed to Hitler himself, like a true master strategist. The Russian people will celebrate Putin's strategic failu...I mean victories by burning straw dolls with his face on them, while affectionately calling him ♥️"сука"♥️.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610337310671011840


kingQamaR said:


> So all these Russian bots on here are claiming that Ukrainian troops are getting slaughtered, all their weapons are being destroyed, and that everything negative said about Russian forces is a lie? So if all that is true why does Russia only control 15% of Ukraine after nearly a year of war? Weird. Russia controlled 25% of Ukraine in March 22, now 15% in January 23. Is the Russian army so bad it can't gain territory against Ukrainians with no weapons who are dying in mass? You bots need like a mandatory training course or something, your logic capabilities are quiet poor.



15% is quite a lot. Russia only took Konigsberg from Germany and South Sakhalin from Japan. Japan only took South Sakhalin from Russia. Japan only took Taiwan from China. UK only took Hong Kong from China. Germany only took Alsace and Lorraine from France. UK only took Gibraltar from Spain. US only took Guam and Puerto Rico from Spain.



That Guy said:


> No no, you don't understand. The Russians aren't retreating, they're advancing backwards. Putin is a master strategist. When the Ukrainians besiege Moscow, Putin will strategically lock himself in his own bunker and proceed to Hitler himself, like a true master strategist. The Russian people will celebrate Putin's strategic failu...I mean victories by burning straw dolls with his face on them, while affectionately calling him ♥️"сука"♥️.



Is this a joke? If Ukrainians invade Russia then China will get involved. China has 10 times the people of Russia, 100 times the fire power of Russia.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610394771926687745

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610337310671011840
> 
> 
> 15% is quite a lot. Russia only took Konigsberg from Germany and South Sakhalin from Japan. Japan only took South Sakhalin from Russia. Japan only took Taiwan from China. UK only took Hong Kong from China. Germany only took Alsace and Lorraine from France. UK only took Gibraltar from Spain. US only took Guam and Puerto Rico from Spain.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a joke? If Ukrainians invade Russia then China will get involved. China has 10 times the people of Russia, 100 times the fire power of Russia.




Yes China will take everything due North of them. When that starts, Japan will take back the Kuril Islands within hours. Finland will leap and re-take their stolen Karelian land. Kalliningrad will become a NATO party town for troops where beer is cheap. Ukraine w/Crimea will go back to being quiet, peaceful freedom-loving Ukraine. Moscow will see endless coup attempts from iz-lamists.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> When that starts, Japan will take back the Kuril Islands within hours.



Japan will not take back Kurils. Chinese navy is very powerful. Japan cannot fight that. Also, if Japan invades Kurils, China sanction Japan. 99.9% of PCs and smartphones in the world are made in China. Japanese would run out of PCs and smartphones within a month if they fight.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610191278238740480

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## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> Not so fast bro- Russia has created 2 alternative routes now in addition to those 2 you mentioned - An arctic sea route,m that opened up due to global warming and Russian actions/plans, and via the caspian sea...Russia and Iran are now going full throttle on using the Caspian sea as a man conduit for trade and maritime transportation , and that is already being connected to a big Russian river the Volgograd? it connects to the Black sea, so there are other alternatives, also INSTC- India and Iran are accelerating work and plans to continue opening new trade routes via Central asia- all this sea route crap that NATo locked up is weakening at the moment- probably because trade in teh world is shifting East and so is the economic leverage that comes with that.
> 
> whining..lol.
> 
> so why is EU is worse recession than Russia now? llmao- stop whining bro- your NATO lost agaist Taliban, now so now you've graduated to fighting Russia, via Ukraine...so enjoy..must be nice.
> 
> then why is Russia's coffers full - $220bn in budget savings in 2022, and not bad inflation- still good economic indicators- shows you how weak stupid western sanctions are-* Rouble got hooked to Gold by the Russian central bank and then the dollar and EU turned full pu**y and got weak*- USD cant conquer Rouble anymore, even while Russia is being sanctioned by half of the developed world!
> 
> US sanctions working more and more like toothless tiger teeth- they need dentures.
> 
> Ukranians are losing more and more positions on the frontline these days it seems.


Still spreading russian propaganda. The ruble was “pegged” to gold in Putins speeches only. In reality no such thing ever happend.
And what exactly is Russia going to export to whom through those alternative routes, securing the russian economy? Russias main export is oil and natural gas. Oil is traded below the sanction price, and Russia only has the capacity to convert 10% of the gas previously exported to Europe into exportable LNG.

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## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> Still spreading russian propaganda.


nope, thats what you're spreading, you're projecting.


MeFishToo said:


> The ruble was “pegged” to gold in Putins speeches only.


then why has the Dollar never recovered to its prewar state against the Rubble even with all the heavy sanctions against Russia? you gotta explain the economics instead of just saying im wrong.


MeFishToo said:


> In reality no such thing ever happend.


in your mind sure.


MeFishToo said:


> And what exactly is Russia going to export to whom through those alternative routes, securing the russian economy?


products and commodities? you have limited knowledge of Russia, hence you project it onto us as facts- the Caspian is already being used right now for maritime trade....how can Russia be selling nothing on its ships moving up and down the Caspian and its railways shipping products to the Iranian border via INSTC? obviously you're no match to me in terms of international economics.


MeFishToo said:


> Russias main export is oil and natural gas.


but those arent its only exports- it exports gold- Swiss keep buying it, it exports coal, wheat, titanium, etc- ever heard of these? or you're still in denial and dont want to learn just because your anti-Russia bias is so strong?


MeFishToo said:


> Oil is traded below the sanction price, and Russia only has the capacity to convert 10% of the gas previously exported to Europe into exportable LNG.


ha ha -- then let me know when Russia goes broke ok? if you never do that then we know you're a bullshitter- cheers.


----------



## jhungary

That Guy said:


> No evidence of Himars destruction, nor the vampires.


How many HIMARS had they destroyed already? With this 4 they claim, it's up to 36 or 38. They should just said 6 instead of 4 so they destroyed twice the number of HIMARS we sent to Ukraine......


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610413721502842892

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610358303166439424

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610356031368101892

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610356031368101892



MANPADS no use at night. Cannot see shit.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> *low IQ propaganda from you again.*
> 
> It is well known that because there are fewer buyers…russia has to give serious discount to India and China.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Oil Revenues Dropped in November Amid Discounts, IEA Says
> 
> 
> 
> Let alone the shortfall in gas reliant on pipelines.
> 
> 
> Ofcourse the high demand of oil and gas gives russia a trump card keeping them afloat. But so far the economic warfare on that is far from decided.
> 
> 
> You have been consistently wrong.
> 
> China had done little else then some empty supporting words and buying discounted gas and oil.
> For a year now.
> 
> Russia is not worth it for China to destroy their trade/relations with the West at this time. Simple as that.



You and your friends like to insult me but then run to the mods when I match you. Either respect the rules and share your views without insults or stop crying to the mods.


@LeGenD @waz


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

kingQamaR said:


> Please , Read the Minsk agreements and get back to me. You'll find that you have been misinformed by third parties if you think that they propose no further NATO expansion. Also. Let us not forget that Ukraine was already refused NATO membership in 2008. So , Are you the misinformed or the liar?




Here is the link that documents that agreement: https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/UA_150212_MinskAgreement_en.pdf

The self-rule or autonomy of Russian-speaking communities in both Donetsk and Luhansk regions, including the linguistic self-determination, were clearly documented there. And this was something that the Ukrainians ignored.

#10 was also clearly outlining the "Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, as well as mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under monitoring of the OSCE. Disarmament of all illegal groups." 

NATO and the Ukrainian government never implemented that article.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

That Guy said:


> No evidence of Himars destruction, nor the vampires.




You can deny it till the end of age, but those HIMARS are getting taken out, and that is why the Biden administration has kept sending them.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610291705923923970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610291532489232385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610239376696696832

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610372567793127426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610372331527864320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610242556830355457


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610319670430646277

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610300400535584771

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610269318305955840


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610386366189260807


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610442666197815296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610319464570159105
Well, I guess many of the Western propagandists can't visit Hungary any more. That is because Hungary will no longer tolerate their "lifestyle".

Good for Hungary, they're afterall protecting their children from such a decadent lifestyle.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610319464570159105
Well, I guess many of the Western propagandists can't visit Hungary any more. That is because Hungary will no longer tolerate their "lifestyle".

Good for Hungary, they're afterall protecting their children from such a decadent lifestyle.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610341764908318720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610422408384778240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610404019440332801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610398315119607810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610285575570968576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610337310671011840

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## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610386366189260807


I believe it, you can see the devil in his beautiful eyes.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610338677569507334
Massive missile attacks on Ukraine 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610413275593965568


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610366428070412290

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609839572828971009
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609846802416820225
> 
> 
> 
> Defending the communities in the Donbass region was one of the main reasons that Russia invaded Ukraine in addition to Ukraine being a neutral state and not allow NATO to setup a shop. There were other reasons such as the de-nazification of Ukraine. Russian stated goals were very clear and there were no ambiguity to any of them.


Then they should have just invaded and held on to Donbass. Trying to save your ethnic population under a false pretext (like in Crimea) and expand your border does not happen in this era. Only Israel is allowed that privilege to continue doing so. 

Clarity of purpose is when you have one goal and a plan to match it. It is not ‘clear’ when Russia had 3 different goals and a military plan that accomplished non so far.

De-nazification was as stupid as Neo-cons goal of bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan and re-drawing the middle east borders. That was 20 years ago and evidently a disaster like that was not current enough for Putin and his buddies to learn from.



925boy said:


> SO how is RUssia being run THEN?? i mean thats the reality meanwhile your point is theory, because the reality shows that RUssia is economically resillent NOW, meanwhile, US will probably default on its debt soon...Peter Schiff already said it within the past week too- are you one of those people that only said US lost AFghanistan after it withdrew after 20 years of failures there and then saying Russia has lost when the war isnt a year old and isnt over yet?
> 
> huh? the sanctions backfired AND upset the global world order- Russia will get most of the things the EU and US sell it from other countries- China and India will most likely fulfil Russia's long term needs- welcome to the new world order- your sanctions ordered it!
> 
> not having a strong effect because US is economically weaker today, sanctions are wearing off like cheap drugs, and other countries are finding alternative business solutions and trade routes and methods.


Unless you live in Russia, you retyping the crap you are picking off twitter is not going to change anybody’s mind. I did not say sanctions were perfect,i said adversary has to take some action even if its not going have the 100% impact.

And Russia is getting less for its oil than it did . So its coffers are not filling as fast.

I just told you stats about how auto industry and PC industry is down. Any idiotic economy can function for a year or two. The pain of sanctions (medicine, automotive supplies, aviation parts for airliners) is felt over time.

If Russia were functioning properly , it would not be importing anything from N. Korea.

India does not have anything that Russia needs. China yes, but no Chinese corp is going to supply high-tech (computers and such) and then be subject to secondary sanctions. 

Much like this war is not over tomorrow, neither is the economic impact going to be felt.

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You can deny it till the end of age, but those HIMARS are getting taken out, and that is why the Biden administration has kept sending them.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610291705923923970
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610291532489232385
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610239376696696832


Then it's simple to prove. The Russians should have plenty of photo or video evidence of such destruction, and yet we've seen nothing.


----------



## khansaheeb

So , Ukraine isn't doing as well as they are making it out to be?









Ukraine must get long-term support, warns Nato chief


The West must be in it for the "long haul" as Russia shows no signs of relenting, says Nato's chief.



www.bbc.com





Ukraine must get long-term support, warns Nato chief​

Published
2 days ago

Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war





IMAGE SOURCE,AFP
By Alys Davies in London & Hugo Bachega in Kyiv
BBC News

*Western countries must be prepared to provide long-term support to Ukraine as Russia shows no signs of relenting, Nato's secretary general has said.*
Jens Stoltenberg told the BBC that military support would ensure the survival of Ukraine as a sovereign country and force Russia to sit down and negotiate an end to the war.
Russia's leader accuses the West of using Ukraine to destroy his country.
Russian missiles and drones have hit Ukraine on New Year's Eve and Day.
Russia's partial mobilisation programme, ordered in September, showed Moscow had no desire to end the war at present, Mr Stoltenberg told Radio 4's World at One programme.
"The Ukrainian forces had the momentum for several months, but we also know that Russia has mobilised many more forces, many of them are now training," he said.

"All that indicates that they are prepared to continue the war and also try to potentially launch a new offensive."
Earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin gave a New Year's speech, in which he tried to rally people behind his troops fighting in Ukraine, saying that the country's future was at stake.
His Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky accused Mr Putin of hiding behind his troops rather than leading them.
Twelve out of 20 Russian cruise missiles were shot down on Saturday, the head of Ukraine's armed forces said. A further 45 Iranian-made kamikaze drones were shot down around Kyiv just hours into the New Year on Sunday, the Ukrainian Air Force said.

Media caption,
Watch: A local resident describes hearing the explosions and glass shattering
At least one person died and dozens were injured in the attacks.
The strike fuelled anger and hate among Ukrainians already tired of Russia's unrelenting air campaign.

As explosions rocked the capital, some residents sang the national anthem, while officials accused Russia of deliberately targeting civilians while they gathered to celebrated the New Year.
Andriy Nebitov, the head of the Kyiv police, posted an image to social media of a downed drone with the words "Happy New Year" scribbled across it in Russian.



IMAGE SOURCE,KYIV POLICE
Image caption,
A downed drone found in a children's playground in Kyiv with the words 'Happy New Year' written in Russian on it
"That is everything you need to know about the terror state and its army," he wrote on Facebook, adding that the remains had crashed in a children's playground.
Though no let up in hostilities looks to be in sight, Mr Stoltenberg said Nato must ensure Ukraine stays in a strong position in the event of negotiation talks between the two sides.

NYE in Putin’s Russia - nothing is normal
Five ways Ukraine war could go in 2023
Battlefield is deadlocked, Ukraine spy chief tells BBC
"We need to provide support to Ukraine now, including military support, because that's the only way to convince Russia that they have to sit down and negotiate in good faith and respect Ukraine as a sovereign independent nation in Europe," Mr Stoltenberg said.
"What we do know is that what Ukraine can achieve around that table is totally dependent on the strength on the battlefield."

Prior to Mr Stoltenberg's interview, France - a Nato member - reiterated its backing for Ukraine.
"We will be beside you without fail. We will help you until victory is achieved," French President Emmanuel Macron said in his own New Year's address.
More on this story​

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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610341764908318720
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610422408384778240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610404019440332801
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610398315119607810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610285575570968576
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610337310671011840


Bhanyas are no different to the jews.


----------



## aviator_fan

That Guy said:


> No no, you don't understand. The Russians aren't retreating, they're advancing backwards. Putin is a master strategist. When the Ukrainians besiege Moscow, Putin will strategically lock himself in his own bunker and proceed to Hitler himself, like a true master strategist. The Russian people will celebrate Putin's strategic failu...I mean victories by burning straw dolls with his face on them, while affectionately calling him ♥️"сука"♥️.


Other than importing from North Korea, the Kremlin must have also hired 'Baghdad Bob' to facilitate advancing backwards.



jhungary said:


> How many HIMARS had they destroyed already? With this 4 they claim, it's up to 36 or 38. They should just said 6 instead of 4 so they destroyed twice the number of HIMARS we sent to Ukraine......


This does not include the 200 HIMARS destroyed that were on the production line at the Lockheed factory so please keep your numbers straight. As many Kremlin followers will prove to you and I , there will be no more attacks from this point on Russian troops and that will back up the fact there are no more HIMARS anywhere in the theater of operations



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You can deny it till the end of age, but those HIMARS are getting taken out, and that is why the Biden administration has kept sending them.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610291705923923970
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610291532489232385
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610239376696696832


You are right, they are all getting wiped out before they get to the border of Poland. Thats how effective the Russian military might has been. All these missile strikes on Russians have not been Himars, but messenger pigeons tipped with TNT.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610356031368101892


And there are two dozen videos of Russian missiles/drones being shot down for the two that made it through y ou show. What is the point? Of course a few made it true and killed an old man. Thats power projection Kremlin style

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Here is the link that documents that agreement: https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/UA_150212_MinskAgreement_en.pdf
> 
> The self-rule or autonomy of Russian-speaking communities in both Donetsk and Luhansk regions, including the linguistic self-determination, were clearly documented there. And this was something that the Ukrainians ignored.
> 
> #10 was also clearly outlining the "Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, as well as mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under monitoring of the OSCE. Disarmament of all illegal groups."
> 
> NATO and the Ukrainian government never implemented that article.


Once Russians give these rights to the minorities in their territory then they can be on some moral footing to expect the rights to be given to their communities.

Muslim communities weren't even allowed to hold a copy of the Koran in the 60s in parts of the USSR (father's experience after having visited). So Russia is no different than Israel in this regard: expecting its minorities to be protected while abusing minorities in its territory

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

It looks like war fatigue has set it. Both sides are running out of military hardware and men. Soldiers will say. Hell with it. If Zelensky and Putin want to fight. They can fight mano y mano. Soldiers don't owe them anything.

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## Stranagor

925boy said:


> US lost AFghanistan after it withdrew after 20 years of failures there and then saying Russia has lost when the war isnt a year old and isnt over yet?



Russia lost more man in Ukraine in less than a year than the whole 10 year war in Afghanistan.



925boy said:


> Russia will get most of the things the EU and US sell it from other countries- China and India will most likely fulfil Russia's long term needs- welcome to the new world order- your sanctions ordered it!



To be forced to switch trade partners due to sanctions is not a new world order. Not so fast, grasshopper. It is desperation. Why wouldn't India buy dirt cheap Russian crude ?



925boy said:


> not having a strong effect because US is economically weaker today, sanctions are wearing off like cheap drugs, and other countries are finding alternative business solutions and trade routes and methods.



The fact is Russian state revenue from (mainly resource based) exports has dropped. That's the hard cold fact. "Other countries" is a very abstract category unless it specifically included Iran and North Korea.

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## kingQamaR

Russia claims to have destroyed 60 himars of the 20 Ukraine have. !!! I suspect the Russians lack the C3I to locate the launchers in a timely way and they lack the precision weapons needed to hit the homages launchers. Remembers once they have fired they missiles they will be be off and until they plan a strike the launchers will be hidden away in a protected location.

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## BHAN85

*Use of phones is cause of tragedy in Makeyevka — Russian Defense Ministry*



https://tass.com/defense/1558849



A new common quote could be "You're more dangerous than a Russian soldier with free wifi zone in the trench"


----------



## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> Is that what they use on female protesters In Iran?


yes , its very fun
the only known place for its use is being used to pop the head of your cannibal friends in Syria


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You and your friends like to insult me but then run to the mods when I match you. Either respect the rules and share your views without insults or stop crying to the mods.
> 
> 
> @LeGenD @waz


I did not say you are a low IQ person. 

But that the propaganda you copy pasted was intellectually poor.
This is a fact. Fewer buyers means lower prices, which i followed with sources that russia has to sell at discount. 

I ask you again to not just blindly copy paste russian propaganda sources en mass…but sanity check/vet it first.

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> *Use of phones is cause of tragedy in Makeyevka — Russian Defense Ministry*
> 
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/defense/1558849
> 
> 
> 
> A new common quote could be "You're more dangerous than a Russian soldier with free wifi zone in the trench"


Well that’s what they get when using stolen phones that are connected to Ukraine cellular service.
Of course Ukraine can listen and understand what they say in Russians. At least they can turn on encryption or VPN to camouflage the location. probably they missed it. Too late.


----------



## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Well that’s what they get when using stolen phones that are connected to Ukraine cellular service.
> Of course Ukraine can listen and understand what they say in Russians. At least they can turn on encryption or VPN to camouflage the location. probably they missed it. Too late.



Even using VPN, you can't hide that you are in a place connected to VPN. It's like a smoke signal asking please to be bombed.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610458573053767682


----------



## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> Even using VPN, you can't hide that you are in a place connected to VPN. It's like a smoke signal asking please to be bombed.


Let’s assume you make IP phone calls via smartphone, Vpn if using correctly can camouflage your IP thus your location. However in this particular case in Ukraine, it’s worthless. Because Ukraine cellular service and internet service provider know where you are and which location your phone is connected to.
Anyway it’s stupid to use smartphones on battlefields. You must use particular military phones. Like those low frequency adhoc phones used by German army land forces.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610250622040944640

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610223229892706305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610319318448758787

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## Viet

Hit by 4 Ukraine hirmas missiles
400 deaths
300 wounded
Worthless sacrifice


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609764123633659904


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

That Guy said:


> Then it's simple to prove. The Russians should have plenty of photo or video evidence of such destruction, and yet we've seen nothing.




The Biden administration has kept sending both launchers and actual rockets. They recently announced they'll be sending more advanced ones since the existing launchers were getting destroyed and the rockets are mostly taking down by Russian anti-missile systems. That is the proof.

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Biden administration has kept sending both launchers and actual rockets. They recently announced they'll be sending more advanced ones since the existing launchers were getting destroyed and the rockets are mostly taking down by Russian anti-missile systems. That is the proof.


Uh, no. That's not proof, because they didn't say they were getting destroyed. You are lying.

Them sending more launchers and rockets just means that they're sending more shit because Ukraine needs more.

Do you even understand how basic logic works? Clearly the school you went to didn't teach critical thinking skills.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> Hit by 4 Ukraine hirmas missiles
> 400 deaths
> 300 wounded
> Worthless sacrifice
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609764123633659904




Now, tell us how many soldiers Ukrainians lost in this attack in Druzhkovka? You're running with conflated numbers when Ukrainians were getting mobbed to the floor with many attacks like the one shown below, and their comedian President Zelensky never admitted the casualties.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610319318448758787


That Guy said:


> Uh, no. That's not proof, because they didn't say they were getting destroyed. You are lying.
> 
> Them sending more launchers and rockets just means that they're sending more shit because Ukraine needs more.
> 
> Do you even understand how basic logic works? Clearly the school you went to didn't teach critical thinking skills.




Well, you have your "facts" and I have mine, so we will see who is right and who is not. 

Meanwhile, let me know how your Ukrainians lost in this precise attack in Druzhkovka? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610319318448758787

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Now, tell us how many soldiers Ukrainians lost in this attack in Druzhkovka? You're running with conflated numbers when Ukrainians were getting mobbed to the floor with many attacks like the one shown below, and their comedian President Zelensky never admitted the casualties.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610319318448758787
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you have your "facts" and I have mine, so we will see who is right and who is not.
> 
> Meanwhile, let me know how your Ukrainians lost in this precise attack in Druzhkovka?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610319318448758787


Bro, reality is reality. There is no mine and your facts. Facts are facts regardless of their origin. If Russia shows proof of Himars destruction and proves it beyond any reasonable doubt, then I have zero issues saying they're right.

But the truth is that zero evidence has been provided, and Russia has claimed more destruction of Ukrainian himars and TB-2s than Ukraine ever received. Don't you think that's a little suspicious?

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## Reashot Xigwin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610565024270925825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610277981032747009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610347903263948801


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610411717250658304

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## Reashot Xigwin

& people wonder why eastern europeans ran towards NATO

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609719192596381696


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Biden administration has kept sending both launchers and actual rockets. They recently announced they'll be sending more advanced ones since the existing launchers were getting destroyed and the rockets are mostly taking down by Russian anti-missile systems. That is the proof.



The US has only sent 20 HIMARS to date, and the last shipment was months ago. They only announced they’re sending a more advanced fire control capability, not more HIMARS. 

Stop spreading lies

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## Reashot Xigwin

signs of Russia collapsing?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610601237250031616

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610389314650910720

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has only sent 20 HIMARS to date, and the last shipment was months ago. They only announced they’re sending a more advanced fire control capability, not more HIMARS.
> 
> Stop spreading lies



Dude's so full on copium he'll tell you the US sent more secretly probably doesn't know a concept that is alien in Russia,that is "transparency".

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## Hassan Al-Somal

This is how Western leaders cope. 👇 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610594431261974529

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Laser guided artillery. Deadly accurate.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610623219383369729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610503469135429633

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has only sent 20 HIMARS to date, and the last shipment was months ago. They only announced they’re sending a more advanced fire control capability, not more HIMARS.
> 
> Stop spreading lies




Every announcement of arming Ukraine that the old and senile Biden makes, it includes HIMARS and its ammunition. Go and do you homework instead of buying what the mainstream media feeds you. The 20 HIMARS that they fed you is designed to fool the Russians and others that the US is not escalating the war. But in reality, the Biden administration is doing the opposite. There are 100s of HIMARS that they shipped to Ukraine. Fortunately, many of them have been destroyed by the Russian armed forces.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Every announcement of arming Ukraine that the old and senile Biden makes, it includes HIMARS and its ammunition. Go and do you homework instead of buying what the mainstream media feeds you. The 20 HIMARS that they fed you is designed to fool the Russians and others that the US is not escalating the war. But in reality, the Biden administration is doing the opposite. There are 100s of HIMARS that they shipped to Ukraine. Fortunately, many of them have been destroyed by the Russian armed forces.



Only 20 HIMARS have been shipped, stop spreading lies Hassan. There’s absolutely no evidence any HIMARS have been destroyed. Not a single one

Only HIMARS ammo is consistently announced

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## Hassan Al-Somal

aviator_fan said:


> Once Russians give these rights to the minorities in their territory then they can be on some moral footing to expect the rights to be given to their communities.
> 
> Muslim communities weren't even allowed to hold a copy of the Koran in the 60s in parts of the USSR (father's experience after having visited). So Russia is no different than Israel in this regard: expecting its minorities to be protected while abusing minorities in its territory




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610528180099588096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610528189813592065

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Only 20 HIMARS have been shipped, stop spreading lies Hassan. There’s absolutely no evidence any HIMARS have been destroyed. Not a single one



I thought the US gave Ukraine 100 HIMARS out of the 300 the US had.

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## F-22Raptor

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> I thought the US gave Ukraine 100 HIMARS out of the 300 the US had.



Only 20 have been sent, and around a dozen M270s from European stock

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610513978278531075

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610622252403359746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610623151980806145


F-22Raptor said:


> Only 20 have been sent, and around a dozen M270s from European stock



20 HIMARS wouldn't last long. These break down quick. Servicing is a pain in the arse.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610565811638308864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610565820433764353


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610636766591225857


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610640992855547905


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610561940731924482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610371281471373313


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The level of desperation and enmity toward Russia in West's mainstream media. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610237325115641857
How the Western media is framing the war crimes that the Ukrainians are committing against their fellow Russian-speaking countrymen and women. 👇


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610589238021464066

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## mike2000 is back

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is how it all began in the Donbas region. The Ukrainian government under *Poroshenko *was shelling this Russian-speaking city of Donetsk in 2014. It seems Western media leaders either have short memory or they deliberately chose to misinform their audience and the world about the aggression that the Ukrainian government was committing against the Russian-speaking communities in the East of Ukraine (The Donbass region).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609202292472832000


Let's assume it was the case(which can be disputed by all account), whats Russia's business in how another country's conducts its internal affairs by fighting separatists for its territorial intergrity? Do you guys even understand what you are saying and the implications of such actions? India can use the same silly excuse against Pakistan oppressing Pakistanis Hindus and invade pakistan to "protect its fellow hindus against Pakistans nazis genocidal government". See what i did there. ? 🤣 
In fact China can use the same excuse to invade Indonesia, malaysia, Vietnam, Burma and other neighboring countries who have been oppressing, killing or discriminating against their local ethic Chinese speaking population. 🤣 Turkey can use the same excuse against central asian countries with Turkic speaking ethnic Turks to invade its neighbors . Etc etc..the list is long. 
Im sure if that happened against Pakistan you will be the first to cry foul and say how criminal and wrong India is in dling such a thing. Lool. I guess its easier to say some silly things to suit your agenda when its involves others but if it happened to your home country then your comments will be different. 😆

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> Only 20 have been sent, and around a dozen M270s from European stock


do these HIMARS use radars to fire ? cuz i think Russia might be destroying them by taking out their radars, which Russia has been doing more effectively recently.

Also, there is almost no chance no HIMARS systems have not been destroyed..that sounds so naive.


----------



## F-22Raptor

925boy said:


> do these HIMARS use radars to fire ? cuz i think Russia might be destroying them by taking out their radars, which Russia has been doing more effectively recently.
> 
> Also, there is almost no chance no HIMARS systems have not been destroyed..that sounds so naive.



No HIMARS have been destroyed and there’s no evidence of such. Russian recon and targeting is piss poor. HIMARS has too much range and maneuverability for Russia to target.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> No HIMARS have been destroyed and there’s no evidence of such. Russian recon and targeting is piss poor. HIMARS has too much range and maneuverability for Russia to target.



Spies can find HIMARS. Then boom. Iskander or Tornado-S can hit it. These have more range than HIMARS. HIMARS cannot be moved all the time. That breaks the engine. It has to be stored in a warehouse when not in use.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Here is the link that documents that agreement: https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/UA_150212_MinskAgreement_en.pdf
> 
> The self-rule or autonomy of Russian-speaking communities in both Donetsk and Luhansk regions, including the linguistic self-determination, were clearly documented there. And this was something that the Ukrainians ignored.
> 
> #10 was also clearly outlining the "Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, as well as mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under monitoring of the OSCE. Disarmament of all illegal groups."
> 
> NATO and the Ukrainian government never implemented that article.


Russia certainly did not honour #10.
The Russian created and supported insurrection was what created the problem in the first place.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Biden administration has kept sending both launchers and actual rockets. They recently announced they'll be sending more advanced ones since the existing launchers were getting destroyed and the rockets are mostly taking down by Russian anti-missile systems. That is the proof.


I invite you to produce any link where the US says that any HIMARS has been destroyed…


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Now, tell us how many soldiers Ukrainians lost in this attack in Druzhkovka? You're running with conflated numbers when Ukrainians were getting mobbed to the floor with many attacks like the one shown below, and their comedian President Zelensky never admitted the casualties.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610319318448758787
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you have your "facts" and I have mine, so we will see who is right and who is not.
> 
> Meanwhile, let me know how your Ukrainians lost in this precise attack in Druzhkovka?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610319318448758787


Well maybe the case. I did predict casualties Ukraine and Russians soldiers are almost the same. Although the tide has turned after Russia failed summer offensive. Ukraine now has received more precise deadly weapons.




Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Spies can find HIMARS. Then boom. Iskander or Tornado-S can hit it. These have more range than HIMARS. HIMARS cannot be moved all the time. That breaks the engine. It has to be stored in a warehouse when not in use.


Difficult to hit the Himars.
Ukraine moves them very quick away to safely once the missiles are fired.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610384390311510016


----------



## 925boy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> HIMARS cannot be moved all the time. That breaks the engine. It has to be stored in a warehouse when not in use.


Russia has SURELY destroyed some HIMARS and its ammunition in some warehouses- too many hits on Ukrainian forces for this not to have happened already.

I love how pro-Ukraine people on this thread think Ukraine needs more weapons only because it just does, not because its run out of weapons Russian military destroyed- Western propaganda can only go on for so long- western propaganda will probably run out of momentum this year- Ukraine especially wont be able to hide the damage its received up till now.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> I invite you to produce any link where the US says that any HIMARS has been destroyed…


prove to us that all HIMARS provided are still alive- thats the war reality your propaganda cant recreate.

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## Deino

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Biden administration has kept sending both launchers and actual rockets. They recently announced they'll be sending more advanced ones since the existing launchers were getting destroyed and the rockets are mostly taking down by Russian anti-missile systems. That is the proof.




Sorry ... but so far we have a lot of claims, even more propaganda and your wishful-thinkings but we have *NO *proof, not a single one that the Russian's hit or even destroyed even one HIMARS launcher!



925boy said:


> prove to us that all HIMARS provided are still alive- thats the war reality your propaganda cant recreate.




OMG! So since you cannot prove even one was hit you desperately try - in order to save your theory - that we should provide proof that all are still alive! 

Really funny!

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## jhungary

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> 20 HIMARS wouldn't last long. These break down quick. Servicing is a pain in the arse.


It lasted longer than you in this thread.....

How many months you got banned? HIMARS already lasted 7 months in Ukraine.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610646448479285249


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## jhungary

Deino said:


> Sorry ... but so far we have a lot of claims, even more propaganda and your wishful-thinkings but we have *NO *proof, not a single one that the Russian's hit or even destroyed even one HIMARS launcher!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG! So since you cannot prove even one was hit you desperately try - in order to save your theory - that we should provide proof that all are still alive!
> 
> Really funny!


Sure, Ukraine should post all 20 HIMARS in the same area for a photo.

Sorry, Ukrainian is not as Stupid as the Russian.......







On the other hand, even if those 20 HIMARS are all destroyed wouldn't be a big deal, it's not like the US cannot fork out 100 million to buy another 20 for Ukraine. I mea LM wouldn't shut down their HIMARS production because Russian "Destroyed" them in Ukraine.......

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## LeGenD

Beny Karachun​Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen​BHAN85​
You are notified to not derail this thread with off-topic posts.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610676899679801354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610683191064498194

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## LeGenD

@Hassan Al-Somal

You are advised to post verified information, and do not repeat older information.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610674471827902468

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610685120800854031


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610679407273824258

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610366643305078790


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610702690937630720

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## Viet

That’s a new development.
France sends light tanks to Ukraine.
Germany previously said if other countries send tanks it will follow suit.
Leopards 2 tanks coming.
The summer will be hot.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549084648134828032


----------



## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> nope, thats what you're spreading, you're projecting.
> 
> *then why has the Dollar never recovered to its prewar state against the Rubble even with all the heavy sanctions against Russia? *you gotta explain the economics instead of just saying im wrong.
> 
> in your mind sure.
> 
> products and commodities? you have limited knowledge of Russia, hence you project it onto us as facts- the Caspian is already being used right now for maritime trade....how can Russia be selling nothing on its ships moving up and down the Caspian and its railways shipping products to the Iranian border via INSTC? obviously you're no match to me in terms of international economics.
> 
> but those arent its only exports- it exports gold- Swiss keep buying it, it exports coal, wheat, titanium, etc- ever heard of these? or you're still in denial and dont want to learn just because your anti-Russia bias is so strong?
> 
> ha ha -- then let me know when Russia goes broke ok? if you never do that then we know you're a bullshitter- cheers.


Just in case someone actually takes you serious. Russias capital control and unusual high oil and gas prices is the reason the ruble rebounded. If youre somehow mislead to believe the ruble is strong, and russian warfare doesnt have an effect, just take a look at this:





I will reply to you in 2024 with an updated chart.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Just in case someone actually takes you serious. Russias capital control and unusual high oil and gas prices is the reason the ruble rebounded. If youre somehow mislead to believe the ruble is strong, and russian warfare doesnt have an effect, just take a look at this:
> View attachment 909387
> 
> I will reply to you in 2024 with an updated chart.



Russia can print money. They don't need to sell oil to make money. Russians copy Americans. Print money.

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## Vergennes

Viet said:


> That’s a new development.
> France sends light tanks to Ukraine.
> Germany previously said if other countries send tanks it will follow suit.
> Leopards 2 tanks coming.
> The summer will be hot.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549084648134828032



France probably paved the way to the delivery of heavier tanks to the Ukrainian army. Hope others will follow.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610705967590555650

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## 925boy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia can print money. They don't need to sell oil to make money. Russians copy Americans. Print money.


but Russians have REAL commodities to back up its currency the Ruble- Gold, oil and gas especially- US doesnt have that available on a practical scale- and i know for a fact that in today's world, the dollar is a prostitute compared to Gold, oil and gas- its value as exchange medium is even in jeopardy as we speak.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610706317760692224

More HIMARS coming

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> France probably paved the way to the delivery of heavier tanks to the Ukrainian army. Hope others will follow.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610705967590555650


If France sends tanks I am pretty sure Germany will send tanks to Ukraine, too. it’s just Germany doesn’t want to be the first. Olaf Scholz will keep his words. He can’t back down. There are 2,000 leopards 2 tanks in european armies, if they just send 20 percent or 400 tanks then Ukraine could form two tank divisions.
They can crush the Wagner hooligans at Bakhmut.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> If France sends tanks I am pretty sure Germany will send tanks to Ukraine, too. it’s just Germany doesn’t want to be the first. Olaf Scholz will keep his words. He can’t back down. There are 2,000 leopards 2 tanks in european armies, if they just send 20 percent or 400 tanks then Ukraine could form two tank divisions.
> They can crush the Wagner hooligans at Bakhmut.



Tanks aren't that useful. European tanks have range 2 km. Engines are too prone to break down. Too thirsty on fuel.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610563686015320064

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610719369868328983

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Just in case someone actually takes you serious. Russias capital control and unusual high oil and gas prices is the reason the ruble rebounded. If youre somehow mislead to believe the ruble is strong, and russian warfare doesnt have an effect, just take a look at this:
> View attachment 909387
> 
> I will reply to you in 2024 with an updated chart.


lol, you are explaining economic principal to someone who said Russian 2300 tons of gold can be used to back the currency. I would love to see it. In fact, plaese do, because at 59.5 million per metric tons, Russian 2300 tons of gold worth less than 1.5 trillion dollars. That's 1/20 of US GDP and 1/4 of US Federal Bank Gold Reserve. I mean, if US dump 1.5 trillion to buy gold and then ship to Russia, it instantly devalues the Russian currency by at least half (Probably more, but let just say half) and what's 1.5 trillion to the US anyway? That's like 2 years' worth of Defence Budget......

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610638657794314240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610641042625417219

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610637912089018371

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610563948868247557

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610734010719666194

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## The SC

The Russians are storming the important positions in south Bakhmut..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610561566272897026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610560806034280453

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610555506023612419

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610669651129679873

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## Hassan Al-Somal

mike2000 is back said:


> Let's assume it was the case(which can be disputed by all account), whats Russia's business in how another country's conducts its internal affairs by fighting separatists for its territorial intergrity? Do you guys even understand what you are saying and the implications of such actions? India can use the same silly excuse against Pakistan oppressing Pakistanis Hindus and invade pakistan to "protect its fellow hindus against Pakistans nazis genocidal government". See what i did there. ? 🤣
> In fact China can use the same excuse to invade Indonesia, malaysia, Vietnam, Burma and other neighboring countries who have been oppressing, killing or discriminating against their local ethic Chinese speaking population. 🤣 Turkey can use the same excuse against central asian countries with Turkic speaking ethnic Turks to invade its neighbors . Etc etc..the list is long.
> Im sure if that happened against Pakistan you will be the first to cry foul and say how criminal and wrong India is in dling such a thing. Lool. I guess its easier to say some silly things to suit your agenda when its involves others but if it happened to your home country then your comments will be different. 😆




To the level that Israel and Ukrainian governments persecute people under the territory they control, no other country comes no where near on the level of brutality, killings, marginalization, and the eviction they inflict on the people who settled the land before they showed up.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> I invite you to produce any link where the US says that any HIMARS has been destroyed…



The US govt would never acknowledge the destruction of the HIMARS by the Russian armed forces. That would be dumb if they do it. How are they going to sell them if they acknowledge that someone else is taking them out? Use your common sense!


----------



## Ali_Baba

Putin's troops 'using dead comrades to shield against Ukraine bullets'


The head of Ukraine's military intelligence, Kyrylo Budanov, said he witnessed the shocking scenes during a visit to Bakhmut in Donetsk in late December.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610706317760692224
> 
> More HIMARS coming




Yup, because the previous ones have been destroyed. Yet another proof to Russian MOD's claims of destroying those HIMARS.



Vergennes said:


> France probably paved the way to the delivery of heavier tanks to the Ukrainian army. Hope others will follow.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610705967590555650





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610734010719666194




Yup, because all of the repair facilitates in Ukraine for the Soviet-made tanks have been destroyed, and Russian drones, helicopters, CAS fighter jets, and artillery have taken their toll on the existing tanks in Ukrainian inventories.

If anyone needs proofs for the beating the Ukrainians are taking in the battle-field, look at the endless announcements from the Western leaders that are almost certainly on weekly basis. They keep sending everything in their disposal. Expect them supplying fighter jets very soon after the Ukrainian pilot complete the training. 

This is because the Ukrainians can't replace the attrition rate against their equipment.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610725202496716814

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## Hassan Al-Somal

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Much better is, that they don't care about the morale finger from EU when beating welfare seekers from the ME and Africa to a pulp.




Stop derailing and bringing in an irrelevant argument. Migrants from Africa and Middle East have nothing to do with this topic. The topic is about the war in Ukraine between Russia and the West. 

Btw, it is obvious you're in that lifestyle that was banned in Hungary.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610725202496716814




Yup, placing weapons of war in the midst of the civilian population and then firing from there is a war crime. Ukrainians should immediately seek ceasefire by fulfilling the Russian demands instead of firing behind men, women, and children.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610738722047393793

Shaheed-136s own the night 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610730790274449409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610729963753177097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610711721773088774

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610709702308147202

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610738722047393793
> 
> Shaheed-136s owns the night 👇



With such huge trade surplus Russia can buy up Chinese technical experts and build up Russia's semiconductor industry. China is coming out with fully domestic 28nm chip production this year with machines from SMEE.

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## Reashot Xigwin

925boy said:


> but Russians have REAL commodities to back up its currency the Ruble- Gold, oil and gas especially- US doesnt have that available on a practical scale- and i know for a fact that in today's world, the dollar is a prostitute compared to Gold, oil and gas- its value as exchange medium is even in jeopardy as we speak.


LOL the dollar are backed up by the US government. Rubble and Yuan are not even good enough to be a reserve currency.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610681271931531264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610681028645093378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610680675744583687

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610756805394632706

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610638811918389250

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## The SC

Russian armed forces continue to hit HIMARS today.. 7 new ones were destroyed in 3 days.. amounting to 30 systems so far..

Min 2:00 from the video.. Some Pentagon officials were asked about the number of Himars sent to Ukraine.. and they said they are not sure or able to confirm the numbers pending verification.. But what is known is that during the Ukrainian counter-attack on Kharkiv they've started the offensive by launching Himars missiles from 18 platforms.. while at the same time 10 other systems were hitting Nikolaiv and Kherson in the south.. apparently the US has no problem replacing any lost system..but the ammunition is another question, since it is based on High Tech and requires advanced ships and microprocessors..and that takes time to manufacture..Just yesterday the pentagon said they are studying the possibility of procuring 100 South Korean Chunmoo MLRS.. also the Pentagon announced the training of 613 Ukrainian soldiers and officers on operating up to 200 Himars platforms..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610653568377262080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610613287409819649

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Yup, because the previous ones have been destroyed. Yet another proof to Russian MOD's claims of destroying those HIMARS.


What pathetic logic is this? 

USA is sending 20 Himars. And more ammo after that.
You: “proof” that dozens are being destroyed!


Russia is copy-pasting every little video they can find (or fabricate) of their “victories”, yet “coincidentally” do not have a shred of evidence on actually taking out one of those 100 Himars? 

Its getiing sad now.

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## mike2000 is back

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> To the level that Israel and Ukrainian governments persecute people under the territory they control, no other country comes no where near on the level of brutality, killings, marginalization, and the eviction they inflict on the people who settled the land before they showed up


Not really. If you ask others there might say your case is even worse. Since some will say your country is by far the worse in its oppression of religious minorities/non Muslims like Hindus. Reason many fled Pakistan since your independence to India and still continue to do so to this day. Their percentage has fallen from 20% since you got independence in 1947 to just barely 2% today.🤣 i heard that some of them even had to convert to islam just to get by. 😆 if that is not real oppression/persecution, brutality, marginalization, eviction (and everything else you mentioned lol) then i dont know what that is. Lol 

I QUOTE from the article below: 

"At independence in 1947, Hindus composed 20.5 percent of the population of the areas that now form Pakistan. In the following decades, the percentage shrank rapidly, and by 1998 — the last government census to classify people by religion — Hindus were just 1.6 percent of Pakistan's population.









Poor and Desperate, Pakistani Hindus Accept Islam to Get By (Published 2020)


Drawn by jobs or land offered by Muslim groups, some Hindus, facing discrimination and a virus-ravaged economy, are essentially converting to survive.




www.nytimes.com





In short India has even more reason than Russia(invading Ukraine) to invade Pakistan and stop your "genocidal " government from eradicating its Hindus population.🤣 In fact, India will even have a far better reason to do so than even Russia against Ukraine. You should count yourself lucky that India is not a historical aggressive and hegemonic militaristic power like Russia, else your country probably won't exist today the way we know it. Russia would have made sure they break it up and put you under their boots/influence like they do with their Eastern European, balkan states and central Asian neighbours. 

So don't throw glasses at others when your own country is even worse. So using your logic , India should be justified in invading Pakistan to protect Hindus. Lmao. I will support such an initiative (using your logic that is). 😆

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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Let’s assume you make IP phone calls via smartphone, Vpn if using correctly can camouflage your IP thus your location. However in this particular case in Ukraine, it’s worthless. Because Ukraine cellular service and internet service provider know where you are and which location your phone is connected to.
> Anyway it’s stupid to use smartphones on battlefields. You must use particular military phones. Like those low frequency adhoc phones used by German army land forces.
> 
> 
> View attachment 909312


Yes, VPN only protects you if your enemy is watching the VoIP server.

But if your enemy control the GSM network, then you're fcked, no matter what VPN you use, they'll know that is someone connected to a VPN where nobody should be.

I remember something similar in the other side, in the beginning of war, foreign fighters for Ukraine, uploading pics of them to social networks, they achieved to be bombed and killed 200 of them with a single one Russian missile strike.

The stupid human behavior using internet is particularly dangerous in war time.

Smartphones are perfect spying machines.









Russia claims it killed 'foreign mercenaries' in Yavoriv bombing


On Sunday, Russian forces carried out an airstrike on a military range near Lviv in western Ukraine, expanding its offensive closer to the border with Poland.




www.euronews.com





If at least it was used to military communications, it could have some sense, but likely stupid soldiers used smartphones as entertainment machines.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BHAN85 said:


> Yes, VPN only protects you if your enemy is watching the VoIP server.
> 
> But if your enemy control the GSM network, then you're fcked, no matter what VPN you use, they'll know that is someone connected to a VPN where nobody should be.
> 
> I remember something similar in the other side, in the beginning of war, foreign fighters for Ukraine, uploading pics of them to social networks, they achieved to be bombed and killed 200 of them with a single one Russian missile strike.
> 
> The stupid human behavior using internet is particularly dangerous in war time.
> 
> Smartphones are perfect spying machines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia claims it killed 'foreign mercenaries' in Yavoriv bombing
> 
> 
> On Sunday, Russian forces carried out an airstrike on a military range near Lviv in western Ukraine, expanding its offensive closer to the border with Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If at least it was used to military communications, it could have some sense, but likely stupid soldiers used smartphones as entertainment machines.



Russia makes smartphones that are safe from tapping and interception.



https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/334380-russia-has-released-wiretap-protected-smartphone

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## Reashot Xigwin

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610698957210152960
After the inevitable Russian collapse, Iran will be next then maybe China. I love it when the good guys are winning.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610697013007650816
Meaning the old system..

Here is the new one: AMX-10 ERBC Jaguar








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610659151163564034

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610625625148256256


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

LOL the Russian used export tank meant for india

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610679194413076480

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610616958382137344

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610764793408851992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610713175447552024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610691258267074560

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610768096712658947

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610769154797182977

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Yup, because the previous ones have been destroyed. Yet another proof to Russian MOD's claims of destroying those HIMARS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, because all of the repair facilitates in Ukraine for the Soviet-made tanks have been destroyed, and Russian drones, helicopters, CAS fighter jets, and artillery have taken their toll on the existing tanks in Ukrainian inventories.
> 
> If anyone needs proofs for the beating the Ukrainians are taking in the battle-field, look at the endless announcements from the Western leaders that are almost certainly on weekly basis. They keep sending everything in their disposal. Expect them supplying fighter jets very soon after the Ukrainian pilot complete the training.
> 
> This is because the Ukrainians can't replace the attrition rate against their equipment.




Nope, no HIMARS have been destroyed and there’s no evidence they have been. Not a single one. 

Bradley’s are a massive upgrade in capability for the Ukrainians. Bradley’s destroyed a significant amount of Soviet armor in Desert Storm.

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## Corax

mike2000 is back said:


> Not really. If you ask others there might say your case is even worse. Since some will say your country is by far the worse in its oppression of religious minorities/non Muslims like Hindus. Reason many fled Pakistan since your independence to India and still continue to do so to this day. Their percentage has fallen from 20% since you got independence in 1947 to just barely 2% today.🤣 i heard that some of them even had to convert to islam just to get by. 😆 if that is not real oppression/persecution, brutality, marginalization, eviction (and everything else you mentioned lol) then i dont know what that is. Lol
> 
> I QUOTE from the article below:
> 
> "At independence in 1947, Hindus composed 20.5 percent of the population of the areas that now form Pakistan. In the following decades, the percentage shrank rapidly, and by 1998 — the last government census to classify people by religion — Hindus were just 1.6 percent of Pakistan's population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor and Desperate, Pakistani Hindus Accept Islam to Get By (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> Drawn by jobs or land offered by Muslim groups, some Hindus, facing discrimination and a virus-ravaged economy, are essentially converting to survive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In short India has even more reason than Russia(invading Ukraine) to invade Pakistan and stop your "genocidal " government from eradicating its Hindus population.🤣 In fact, India will even have a far better reason to do so than even Russia against Ukraine. You should count yourself lucky that India is not a historical aggressive and hegemonic militaristic power like Russia, else your country probably won't exist today the way we know it. Russia would have made sure they break it up and put you under their boots/influence like they do with their Eastern European, balkan states and central Asian neighbours.
> 
> So don't throw glasses at others when your own country is even worse. So using your logic , India should be justified in invading Pakistan to protect Hindus. Lmao. I will support such an initiative (using your logic that is). 😆



He's Somalian, not Pakistani. Be a good poodle and go hide behind uncle Sam, lest I remind you how you were saved by the yanks and over a million soldiers from the commonwealth in both world wars.

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## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia makes smartphones that are safe from tapping and interception.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/334380-russia-has-released-wiretap-protected-smartphone


That's not solve the problem of locate a rf signal.

Personally I'd shoot every non-military comm device in war front line, it's a walking danger.

If soldiers wants to watch **** or movies in their leisure time, they should only allowed to use this:




And the less they use military comm devices the better, if they only use passive comm devices to receive orders, it would be perfect. Central command control should not need to receive information, they can watch them through sats.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610679194413076480


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610656683935629312

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

mike2000 is back said:


> Not really. If you ask others there might say your case is even worse. Since some will say your country is by far the worse in its oppression of religious minorities/non Muslims like Hindus. Reason many fled Pakistan since your independence to India and still continue to do so to this day. Their percentage has fallen from 20% since you got independence in 1947 to just barely 2% today.🤣 i heard that some of them even had to convert to islam just to get by. 😆 if that is not real oppression/persecution, brutality, marginalization, eviction (and everything else you mentioned lol) then i dont know what that is. Lol
> 
> I QUOTE from the article below:
> 
> "At independence in 1947, Hindus composed 20.5 percent of the population of the areas that now form Pakistan. In the following decades, the percentage shrank rapidly, and by 1998 — the last government census to classify people by religion — Hindus were just 1.6 percent of Pakistan's population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor and Desperate, Pakistani Hindus Accept Islam to Get By (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> Drawn by jobs or land offered by Muslim groups, some Hindus, facing discrimination and a virus-ravaged economy, are essentially converting to survive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In short India has even more reason than Russia(invading Ukraine) to invade Pakistan and stop your "genocidal " government from eradicating its Hindus population.🤣 In fact, India will even have a far better reason to do so than even Russia against Ukraine. You should count yourself lucky that India is not a historical aggressive and hegemonic militaristic power like Russia, else your country probably won't exist today the way we know it. Russia would have made sure they break it up and put you under their boots/influence like they do with their Eastern European, balkan states and central Asian neighbours.
> 
> So don't throw glasses at others when your own country is even worse. So using your logic , India should be justified in invading Pakistan to protect Hindus. Lmao. I will support such an initiative (using your logic that is). 😆




What has Pakistan gotten anything to do with what I've said? I discussed Ukraine and you brought Pakistan in. What kind of diversion is this? Try to stay on topic and don't bring in other countries which have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

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## Stranagor

MeFishToo said:


> Still spreading russian propaganda. The ruble was “pegged” to gold in Putins speeches only. In reality no such thing ever happend.
> And what exactly is Russia going to export to whom through those alternative routes, securing the russian economy? Russias main export is oil and natural gas. Oil is traded below the sanction price, and Russia only has the capacity to convert 10% of the gas previously exported to Europe into exportable LNG.



Furthermore, the Arctic Route touted here is meaningful only if the European markets are open to Russia. Otherwise, there's little difference from the Pacific route. This is also only if the Arctic Route is fully functional, which is not, due to lack of enough icebreakers, suitable vessels etc. It is not that the route is like Mediterranean Sea all the time. It gets frozen several months per year. Considering that some researchers claim the Arctic permafrost actually has begun to expand, the Arctic Route, both Canadian and Russian, is a distant dream. That's why China has too largely given up on the idea. Trade ships passing through the NWR is not increasing in number.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610717077257568283


----------



## Stranagor

aviator_fan said:


> Once Russians give these rights to the minorities in their territory then they can be on some moral footing to expect the rights to be given to their communities.
> 
> Muslim communities weren't even allowed to hold a copy of the Koran in the 60s in parts of the USSR (father's experience after having visited). So Russia is no different than Israel in this regard: expecting its minorities to be protected while abusing minorities in its territory



On their Muslim minorities in the Caucasus, other than periodic ethnic cleansing, Russia has imposed harsh assimilation policies, including forced teaching of Russian, converting all surnames into Russian, and forced relocation. 

Russia runs minority areas through local henchmen loyal to the Kremlin and brutal enough. 

Russia does not give to its own ethnic minorities (especially in the Caucasus) 10% of the rights it has demanded from Ukraine.

Russia acts in abject bad faith. Uses Ukrainian minorities as an excuse for its own land grab. 

If assimilation of minorities would be enough of an excuse, then the North Caucasus should have already been invaded and separated from Russia.



BHAN85 said:


> *Use of phones is cause of tragedy in Makeyevka — Russian Defense Ministry*
> 
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/defense/1558849
> 
> 
> 
> A new common quote could be "You're more dangerous than a Russian soldier with free wifi zone in the trench"



They call it a " tragedy"? Tragedy is when a fire or traffic accident occurs. 

It is anything but tragedy. If it was a tragedy, the suicide of Hitler would have been considered a tragedy, as well. 

Russian state assassinated Chechnyan president Dzhokhar Dudayev by tracking his satellite signal in 1996. That was a tragedy.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610713045109538816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610729546373791758

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610791086082990083

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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The level of desperation and enmity toward Russia in West's mainstream media. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610237325115641857
> How the Western media is framing the war crimes that the Ukrainians are committing against their fellow Russian-speaking countrymen and women. 👇
> 
> View attachment 909363



What could be a greater enmity toward a country than invading it? And bombing its civilian infrastructure? Committing massacre in their cities? Firing 60000 rockets per day? Getting opposition at home to fall off buildings? Celebrating new year with shrieks of "we will enlarge Russian land" on the state TV? Running war recruit ads by promising iPhones or potatoes? Promising amnesty to criminals who agree for draft? Driving minorities, Muslims, homeless to the front lines for certain death?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610783604204011522

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610818228556804096
Gen Hertling confirming that M2 Bradley 25mm ammo shreds Russian tank armor

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## Stranagor

Vergennes said:


> France probably paved the way to the delivery of heavier tanks to the Ukrainian army. Hope others will follow.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610705967590555650



Those Chechnyan militia, poor souls. I do not think there's one among them one or more of their family members were not killed by Russia at one point. Chechnyan population had been practically halved at the end of Putin's war to end the insurrection.

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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610791086082990083


Any crap they cans sell they will sell,

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## khansaheeb

French reporter close to Russian missile attack on Kyiv:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610046058532405255

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610761165889540110

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Btw, it is obvious you're in that lifestyle that was banned in Hungary.




And you complain about personal insults and getting banned.



~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610806234101485568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610806067302400002

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610804152707469313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610786945764052992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610783127311642626

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610791086082990083


That's literally their job, they're armored personnel carriers, they're not meant to fight on the front line. What the fcuk is that dork taking about?

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## kingQamaR

Russia can’t destroy Himars firing 6 rockets in 30sec. With 99% pinpoint accuracy, The rockets will reach the target over 50 miles away in 5 to 7mins. Himars truck can then travel up to 80kph. After firing Himars the truck can hide in those 7mins.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> And you complain about personal insults and getting banned.
> 
> 
> 
> ~



This is what your friend stated 👇 Of course, the hatred he expressed doesn't bother you, but you like to highlight when we respond to him. You're a hypocrite.



> Much better is, that they don't care about the morale finger from EU when beating welfare seekers from the ME and Africa to a pulp.





That Guy said:


> That's literally their job, they're armored personnel carriers, they're not meant to fight on the front line. What the fcuk is that dork taking about?



So why do they have guns on the top then if they weren't to be joining in battle?


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is what your friend stated 👇 Of course, the hatred he expressed doesn't bother you, but you like to highlight when we respond to him. You're a hypocrite.



Childish excuses.

Seems your need more time in Afbanistan to contemplate.

If someone breaks the rules report it it.

~


----------



## kingQamaR

sammuel said:


> Excuses for a dirty mouth.
> 
> Seems your need more time in Afbanistan to contemplate.
> 
> If someone breaks the rules report it it.
> 
> ~



knock it off with your casual racism 

It’s not funny

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## Stranagor

Why U.S. HIMARS Rockets Are Key to Ukraine's War Success


The rockets have provided Ukraine with greater long range capabilities in responding to Russian aggression.




time.com





...

The U.S. has supplied at least 20 HIMARS rockets to Ukraine. Their announcement to provide the weapons in June was part of a larger $700 million military aid package

...

HIMARS rockets have been particularly effective in fighting Russia’s offensive in Donbas by allowing Ukraine to attack Russian supply and ammunition depots.

They were also crucial in forcing Russia to withdraw from Kherson. “That was only possible because the Ukrainians had this extended strike capability to degrade those bridges. Without the HIMARS, I don’t think the Ukrainians would have liberated Kherson,” Barros says.

Until the New Year’s Day attack, HIMARS rockets had mostly been used to target Russian infrastructure. “What’s different about the recent strike is that they hit an area where there happened to be a lot of Russian military personnel, so there was a very high casualty count,” Williams says. “What we’ve seen until now is HIMARS being used to target Russian logistics and weapon and artillery stockpiles.”

...

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## BHAN85

Stranagor said:


> On their Muslim minorities in the Caucasus, other than periodic ethnic cleansing, Russia has imposed harsh assimilation policies, including forced teaching of Russian, converting all surnames into Russian, and forced relocation.
> 
> Russia runs minority areas through local henchmen loyal to the Kremlin and brutal enough.
> 
> Russia does not give to its own ethnic minorities (especially in the Caucasus) 10% of the rights it has demanded from Ukraine.
> 
> Russia acts in abject bad faith. Uses Ukrainian minorities as an excuse for its own land grab.
> 
> If assimilation of minorities would be enough of an excuse, then the North Caucasus should have already been invaded and separated from Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> They call it a " tragedy"? Tragedy is when a fire or traffic accident occurs.
> 
> It is anything but tragedy. If it was a tragedy, the suicide of Hitler would have been considered a tragedy, as well.
> 
> Russian state assassinated Chechnyan president Dzhokhar Dudayev by tracking his satellite signal in 1996. That was a tragedy.













Ukraine war: Mobile networks being weaponised to target troops on both sides of conflict


In the first days of 2023, a Ukrainian missile strike in Makiivka killed perhaps hundreds of servicemen - and Russia is blaming it on mobile phone use by its soldiers.




news.sky.com





It was something avoidable.

It's a little sad to be killed because idiots use smartphones around you.

But from the enemy point of view, it's a great success.

Every smartphone in the battlefiled is a potential spy. No matter if it's in flight offline mode, it can be hacked previously and keep sending signal to enemy.

Any smartphone in the battefield should shooted like a enemy.


----------



## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> It was something avoidable



They should be careful when using looted items in a country they wish to occupy. 

😃


----------



## kingQamaR

BHAN85 said:


> Ukraine war: Mobile networks being weaponised to target troops on both sides of conflict
> 
> 
> In the first days of 2023, a Ukrainian missile strike in Makiivka killed perhaps hundreds of servicemen - and Russia is blaming it on mobile phone use by its soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was something avoidable.
> 
> It's a little sad to be killed because idiots use smartphones around you.
> 
> But from the enemy point of view, it's a great success.
> 
> Every smartphone in the battlefiled is a potential spy. No matter if it's in flight offline mode, it can be hacked previously and keep sending signal to enemy.
> 
> Any smartphone in the battefield should shooted like a enemy.



Your phone can connect to multiple masts at any time, so as you move and get further away from one, you don't drop calls as your phone searches for a better signal from another. Coverage does over lap, but the phone jumps around looking for the strongest signal. So by looking at connection strength at 2 or 3 masts you can estimate the area where the phone is. Times that by several hundred idiots using their phones would have made this an easy find for nato military intelligence.


----------



## Viet

“Jusqu'à la victoire!”

respect to Macron

The US says it will deliver Bratley tanks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610714187138842632


----------



## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The level of desperation and enmity toward Russia in West's mainstream media. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610237325115641857
> How the Western media is framing the war crimes that the Ukrainians are committing against their fellow Russian-speaking countrymen and women. 👇
> 
> View attachment 909363


Finally learning something from Russia's not free press where Putin does nothing wrong and every decision made in Moscow has 90% popularity.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> but Russians have REAL commodities to back up its currency the Ruble- Gold, oil and gas especially- US doesnt have that available on a practical scale- and i know for a fact that in today's world, the dollar is a prostitute compared to Gold, oil and gas- its value as exchange medium is even in jeopardy as we speak.


Know that US is the top producer of oil AND gas in the world. Its industrial and consumer capacity means its economy consumes the most as well.. Both metrics are higher than Russia. You don't have to like the US, but please don't fabricate facts.


----------



## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What has Pakistan gotten anything to do with what I've said? I discussed Ukraine and you brought Pakistan in. What kind of diversion is this? Try to stay on topic and don't bring in other countries which have nothing to do with the topic at hand.


Because you keep on bringing Israel persecution in this. Feel free to bring Israel's fascist rulings in a thread intended for that purpose. You keep on acting like the mouthpiece with for Tass and then complain about Western propaganda. Do you put Western news to a higher standard than Kremlin's mind control apparatus?


----------



## hadi1990

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610565024270925825
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610277981032747009
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610347903263948801


its not the defences or defence lines in bukhmat nor the nato equipment though ukranian are fighting well , russian fighters are fighting hard too, but they lack tactical leadership i think they need yemeni or hizboullah or irgc advisors... this is what they lack.
the whole war and whole plan and tactics arms numbers ..... every thing must have been rethought from april 2022... when the war changed from a war between russia and ukraine to a war between nato and russia in and around ukraine .
every one should hope this war ends as fast as possible... but never by a defeat for one side especially the russian side ...the end through negotiations with no winner no loser will make any other war avoidable

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The US govt would never acknowledge the destruction of the HIMARS by the Russian armed forces. That would be dumb if they do it. How are they going to sell them if they acknowledge that someone else is taking them out? Use your common sense!


Thanks for confirming that you *invented* a reason for the US to send more HIMARS without having any facts to back it up.

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## Vergennes

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Thanks for confirming that you *invented* a reason for the US to send more HIMARS without having any facts to back it up.



35 out of 20 Himars have been destroyed (+ M270 MLRS) but Ruzzians are getting himarsed on a daily basis.

It seems a base of chechen tiktok batallion got himarsed



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610936955516190721





Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610937158214238208

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## BHAN85

Stranagor said:


> They should be careful when using looted items in a country they wish to occupy.
> 
> 😃


Even if they use their own smartphones, it's a risky thing too. Even if their own smartphones are in "offline mode", even if they are switch "off" (but with battery), it can be previously trojanized by Ukraine.

But they can safely use looted washing machines .


----------



## Stranagor

hadi1990 said:


> when the war changed from a war between russia and ukraine to a war between nato and russia in and around ukraine .



I think it is still between Russia and Ukraine with Russia attempting to invade Ukraine, and Ukraine not liking the idea. 

People dying on the battlefield are the Russian and Ukrainian - except mercenaries Russia has drafted from all around undeveloped world and volunteer forces on the Ukrainian side. 

Ukraine is been supported by several NATO and non- NATO states. Russia is been directly supplied by Iran, secretly by North Korea. 

In this whole affair, except nuclear weapons, Russia does not have moral, tactical, management, or rhetorical superiority.

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## BHAN85

kingQamaR said:


> Your phone can connect to multiple masts at any time, so as you move and get further away from one, you don't drop calls as your phone searches for a better signal from another. Coverage does over lap, but the phone jumps around looking for the strongest signal. So by looking at connection strength at 2 or 3 masts you can estimate the area where the phone is. Times that by several hundred idiots using their phones would have made this an easy find for nato military intelligence.


nowadays there are a lot of gsm antennas everywhere, you dont need to calculate so much, any gsm bts is hundreds meters from any smartphone, Ukraine doesnt need to Russia use them, they can just "listen" and wait for idiots sending gsm signals around them. 

The only way to avoid this is shoot every smartphone, and give a mp4 player to each soldier.

And forbid personal communications in war field, even if it's military secure phone call. A idiot could call to his girlfriend as she is being banged by a Ukrainian spy and telling her everything.

No smartphones no calls no personal comms in war, it should be a obvious rule in modern warfare.


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## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> Even if they use their own smartphones, it's a risky thing too. Even if their own smartphones are in "offline mode", even if they are switch "off" (but with battery), it can be previously trojanized by Ukraine.
> 
> But they can safely use looted washing machines .



Ukrainians should booby-trap washing machines, TV sets, toys, beds, PCs and fridges before they vacate.

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## A.P. Richelieu

hadi1990 said:


> its not the defences or defence lines in bukhmat nor the nato equipment though ukranian are fighting well , russian fighters are fighting hard too, but they lack tactical leadership i think they need yemeni or hizboullah or irgc advisors... this is what they lack.
> the whole war and whole plan and tactics arms numbers ..... every thing must have been rethought from april 2022... when the war changed from a war between russia and ukraine to a war between nato and russia in and around ukraine .
> every one should hope this war ends as fast as possible... but never by a defeat for one side especially the russian side ...the end through negotiations with no winner no loser will make any other war avoidable


In order for this war to end without a loser, then Ukraine needs to have its borders restored to 1991 status and cities rebuilt at Russias expense.

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## Stranagor

Vladimir Putin is leading Russia towards revolution, making the same catastrophic military mistakes as Russia did in 1917, warns a leading pro-Kremlin war analyst.

His army is at the point of no return where he loses if it attacks and if it retreats, said Igor Strelkov, a former FSB colonel and ex-defence minister of self-styled Donetsk People's Republic in Russian-occupied Ukraine.









Putin facing 'military catastrophe', former defence minister warns


Vladimir Putin is 'in a complete Zugzwang' in Ukraine, Igor Strelkov said. The word is German meaning 'compulsive move' and is used in chess when a player is forced to make a poor move.




www.google.com

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> lol, you are explaining economic principal to someone who said Russian 2300 tons of gold can be used to back the currency. I would love to see it. In fact, plaese do, because at 59.5 million per metric tons, Russian 2300 tons of gold worth less than 1.5 trillion dollars. That's 1/20 of US GDP and 1/4 of US Federal Bank Gold Reserve. I mean, if US dump 1.5 trillion to buy gold and then ship to Russia, it instantly devalues the Russian currency by at least half (Probably more, but let just say half) and what's 1.5 trillion to the US anyway? That's like 2 years' worth of Defence Budget......





jhungary said:


> Russian 2300 tons of gold worth less than 1.5 trillion dollars.


Are u sure? Not that much.


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## jhungary

vi-va said:


> Are u sure? Not that much.


Well, the estimation was done in 2021, so now may not be around 2300 tons.

But fact remain, if Russia really do go after backing their currency with gold. Well, let's just say this will end pretty badly for the Russian.



kingQamaR said:


> Your phone can connect to multiple masts at any time, so as you move and get further away from one, you don't drop calls as your phone searches for a better signal from another. Coverage does over lap, but the phone jumps around looking for the strongest signal. So by looking at connection strength at 2 or 3 masts you can estimate the area where the phone is. Times that by several hundred idiots using their phones would have made this an easy find for nato military intelligence.


To me the biggest problem is not the Russian turn on their phone. The biggest issue from this is how or why Russian Army put 2 Battalion worth of men together, 13 km away from the frontline.

Comms, I get it, it's hit and miss sometime, you think it's secure but it's not, I get it, mistake was made, but don't bunch your people up is the number 3 rules of war probably since the age of artillery. I mean, by now the Russian should have heard of every variation of the expression "One grenade will kill you all" there are no excuse to put that dense troop concentration at the same location that close to the front line.

I am imagining the guy who in charge of intercept that signal must have felt like he died and gone to heaven to have that many signal lit up at the same compacted place.

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610386366189260807


hehehehe, she is not australian. She lived in australia for some time pretended she had money, bought a 4 million dollar house on national TV, and then disappeared form australia, never to be seen again. Now she is scamming ukranians it seems. She is likely a Hungarian.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610964338310844418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610966774975197184


A.P. Richelieu said:


> In order for this war to end without a loser, then Ukraine needs to have its borders restored to 1991 status and cities rebuilt at Russias expense.



That's just dumb. Ukraine going back to 1991 border is like saying China going back to 1911 border. It's just dumb. History moves on. People should too. The past is gone. Let it go. It's time to let it go. Quite literally.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Biden administration has kept sending both launchers and actual rockets. They recently announced they'll be sending more advanced ones since the existing launchers were getting destroyed and the rockets are mostly taking down by Russian anti-missile systems. That is the proof.



the thing is, even all these western weapons are destroyed, which is not true, but even if it is, it makes no difference to the west. 

All that matters to the west is how much damage is done to russia. As long as russia is hurt because of them, the weapons will keep coming.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Every announcement of arming Ukraine that the old and senile Biden makes, it includes HIMARS and its ammunition. Go and do you homework instead of buying what the mainstream media feeds you. The 20 HIMARS that they fed you is designed to fool the Russians and others that the US is not escalating the war. But in reality, the Biden administration is doing the opposite. There are 100s of HIMARS that they shipped to Ukraine. Fortunately, many of them have been destroyed by the Russian armed forces.


With the HIMARS threat neutralised, Russia should station more soldiers in forward operating bases closer to the front line.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610528180099588096
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610528189813592065


The Gaulle, a man loved my muslims all over the world. NOT.


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## thetutle

925boy said:


> prove to us that all HIMARS provided are still alive- thats the war reality your propaganda cant recreate.


All the Himars are gone, russia has no need to worry. Bring troops and supplies within 75km of the front line.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610929156837240834

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610933044927397890

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610925362296524801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610921269675053059

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610874627647229954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610873159070420993

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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> 35 out of 20 Himars have been destroyed (+ M270 MLRS) but Ruzzians are getting himarsed on a daily basis.
> 
> It seems a base of chechen tiktok batallion got himarsed
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610936955516190721
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610937158214238208


Oh the kadyrovites are still around? 
They have grown awfully silent compared to their epic tiktok fights against empty buildings at the start of the war… And “ghanima” of used javelins…

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> Well, the estimation was done in 2021, so now may not be around 2300 tons.
> 
> But fact remain, if Russia really do go after backing their currency with gold. Well, let's just say this will end pretty badly for the Russian.
> 
> 
> To me the biggest problem is not the Russian turn on their phone. The biggest issue from this is how or why Russian Army put 2 Battalion worth of men together, 13 km away from the frontline.
> 
> Comms, I get it, it's hit and miss sometime, you think it's secure but it's not, I get it, mistake was made, but don't bunch your people up is the number 3 rules of war probably since the age of artillery. I mean, by now the Russian should have heard of every variation of the expression "One grenade will kill you all" there are no excuse to put that dense troop concentration at the same location that close to the front line.
> 
> I am imagining the guy who in charge of intercept that signal must have felt like he died and gone to heaven to have that many signal lit up at the same compacted place.


I mean, even if Russia hold 2300 tons of gold, it's about 107 billions U.S. dollars instead of 1.5 trillion dollars as you mentioned.

107 billions is nothing. Apple revenue in 2022 is 394.33 billion U.S. dollars, so around a quarter of Apple revenue. Or about one year Apple margin.

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Hate is bad. Hate causes cancer. Westerners get cancer because of hate. We Chinese are peaceful. We Chinese evolved in thousands of years of peace.


Is this the latest knowledge from Chinese medicine? Hate cases cancer. Good luck to Chinese people that need help from Chinese hospitals. God help you all.


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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610783604204011522


JDAM's have been openly in the American military arsenal 25 years, secretly, probably a bit longer. So Russia has finally mastered this technology. We shall see. And even if they did, they are 25 years late.

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## 925boy

thetutle said:


> All the Himars are gone, russia has no need to worry. Bring troops and supplies within 75km of the front line.


dont distract or troll- HIMARS are all not gone, but they're also not all in tact- thats very likely the truth.

The war seems to be getting worse for Ukraine- critical territories being lost still, Huge manpower losses consistenyly happening- US and NATO LOW ON WEAPONS.....good luck Ukraine- 2023 will be the decisive year of this war!

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Well, the estimation was done in 2021, so now may not be around 2300 tons.
> 
> But fact remain, if Russia really do go after backing their currency with gold. Well, let's just say this will end pretty badly for the Russian.
> 
> 
> To me the biggest problem is not the Russian turn on their phone. The biggest issue from this is how or why Russian Army put 2 Battalion worth of men together, 13 km away from the frontline.
> 
> Comms, I get it, it's hit and miss sometime, you think it's secure but it's not, I get it, mistake was made, but don't bunch your people up is the number 3 rules of war probably since the age of artillery. I mean, by now the Russian should have heard of every variation of the expression "One grenade will kill you all" there are no excuse to put that dense troop concentration at the same location that close to the front line.
> 
> I am imagining the guy who in charge of intercept that signal must have felt like he died and gone to heaven to have that many signal lit up at the same compacted place.




Yes, it could be soldier's mobiles, but it could also be official Russian Army communications, or information passed on to Ukraine by a civilian, or a spy satellite. The bottom line is there should never have been 600 men billeted in a single building, and certainly not in one packed with ammunition as appears to be the case.


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## Viet

Nun ist die Katze aus dem Sack.

Putin exposes himself as hooligan. He says he only agrees to peace talks if Ukraine accepts all demands including ceding territories to Russia.

Ukraine only has the choice, either fight to the death or surrender. Liberty or Russia gulags.









Ukraine-News: Putin offen für Dialog – falls Kiew »territoriale Realitäten« akzeptiert


Der Kremlchef gibt sich bereit für Gespräche, seine Bedingungen dürften unannehmbar sein. Und: Selenskyj-Berater Podoljak nennt die von Patriarch Kirill vorgeschlagene Weihnachts-Waffenruhe »eine zynische Falle«. Die News.




www.spiegel.de


----------



## Georg

Report: Germany is examining the delivery of Marder armored personnel carriers 3:36 p.m .: After France’s announcement that it would deliver reconnaissance tanks to Ukraine, there could also be movement in Germany on this matter. According to the "Süddeutsche Zeitung" from government circles, there will be a "qualitative step". Specifically, it should be about the delivery of Marder armored personnel carriers. The tanks could come from Bundeswehr stocks, but more likely from stocks of the defense industry. According to the report, the decision was made in close consultation with France and the USA. France announced yesterday that it would be supplying reconnaissance tanks to Ukraine. US President Joe Biden had also announced that the US was considering the delivery of Bradley armored personnel carriers. According to the report, the US and federal government could announce their next steps as early as this week. Vice Chancellor Robert Habeck also announced that a decision would be made soon on Thursday. It will be discussed quickly and then decisions will be made, said the Green politician in Oslo. The right way now is to seek debate with the allies and decide together. "In the past, we have always adapted our support to the Ukrainian army to the situation," stressed Habeck. The decisions of the federal government were based on the dynamics on the battlefield.

https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten...mpel-erwaegt-panzer-lieferung-an-ukraine.html

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## Hamartia Antidote

thetutle said:


> JDAM's have been openly in the American military arsenal 25 years, secretly, probably a bit longer. So Russia has finally mastered this technology. We shall see. And even if they did, they are 25 years late.



Maybe reliable GLONASS communication was the bottleneck


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## Viet

Stranagor said:


> Vladimir Putin is leading Russia towards revolution, making the same catastrophic military mistakes as Russia did in 1917, warns a leading pro-Kremlin war analyst.
> 
> His army is at the point of no return where he loses if it attacks and if it retreats, said Igor Strelkov, a former FSB colonel and ex-defence minister of self-styled Donetsk People's Republic in Russian-occupied Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin facing 'military catastrophe', former defence minister warns
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin is 'in a complete Zugzwang' in Ukraine, Igor Strelkov said. The word is German meaning 'compulsive move' and is used in chess when a player is forced to make a poor move.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


It’s very dangerous to give weapons to diverse non army groups as Wagner hooligans, Patriot nationalists, Kadydrow’s Checkens, Donbas, Luhansk separatists, Syria ex mercenaries, prison inmates, etc.
They can turn weapons on him one day you don’t know.
but Putin wants to remain in power at all costs until he falls death of heart attack like Stalin.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> JDAM's have been openly in the American military arsenal 25 years, secretly, probably a bit longer. So Russia has finally mastered this technology. We shall see. And even if they did, they are 25 years late.



Better late than never. Besides, US golden age peak era was 1980s. The US didn't have JDAM in the 1980s.


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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> dont distract or troll- HIMARS are all not gone, but they're also not all in tact- thats very likely the truth.
> 
> The war seems to be getting worse for Ukraine- critical territories being lost still, Huge manpower losses consistenyly happening- US and NATO LOW ON WEAPONS.....good luck Ukraine- 2023 will be the decisive year of this war!



OMG Critical territories being lost still!
Can you actually list what critical territory Ukraine lost…in lets give you a nice timeline, the last 3 months?
Also google “sierra army depot” if you believe Nato is running low on weapons hahahaa.

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## Deino

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Westeners evolved in thousands of years of war. Western men is much bigger and stronger than Western women. Hate is bad. Hate causes cancer. Westerners get cancer because of hate. We Chinese are peaceful. We Chinese evolved in thousands of years of peace. There is no size difference between Chinese men and Chinese women. Chinese people are healthy because Chinese people are peaceful.



OMG  

First, we read this BS already several times and even if it would be the first time, do you read the amount of BS and nonsense before you hit the send button? Or is this some sort of writing-diarrhea?
I really never read so much stupidity especially from a self-proclaimed inventor and genius … or do you get money for each such post?

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## F-22Raptor

ZeGerman said:


> OMG Critical territories being lost still!
> Can you actually list what critical territory Ukraine lost…in lets give you a nice timeline, the last 3 months?
> Also google “sierra army depot” if you believe Nato is running low on weapons hahahaa.



No HIMARS have been destroyed and the US is nowhere near running low on weapons. That’s his delusional fantasy he keeps peddling. 

Abrams and Bradley stocks alone are in excess of 10,000.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> No HIMARS have been destroyed and the US is nowhere near running low on weapons. That’s his delusional fantasy he keeps peddling.
> 
> Abrams and Bradley stocks alone are in excess of 10,000.



HIMARS is super weapon. It can't be destroyed. Duh!

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## Hamartia Antidote

Deino said:


> OMG
> 
> First, we read this BS already several times and even if it would be the first time, do you read the amount of BS and nonsense before you hit the send button? Or is this some sort of writing-diarrhea?
> I really never read so much stupidity especially from a self-proclaimed inventor and genius … or do you get money for each such post?



Chinese perpetual obsession with tying everything to Eugenics....I'm sure they'd love to try and tie the current weather outside to it too somehow.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610989861619605506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610996789355876352

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> HIMARS is super weapon. It can't be destroyed. Duh!



Why doesn’t your Russia destroy American HIMARS SYSTEMS with its military warplanes THE answer is time , lack of intelligence and a clumsy military structure.

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## Hamartia Antidote

zhxy said:


> The eugenics theory is not wrong.



I'm not saying it is all wrong..just that it is being overplayed.

"...the weather outside is being highly impacted by the airflow differences between taller people and shorter people...causing abnormal fluctuations...leading to unpredictable storms...."

Oh just stop it. The useless lengths you go through just to try and prove something.

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## Vergennes

ZeGerman said:


> OMG Critical territories being lost still!
> Can you actually list what critical territory Ukraine lost…in lets give you a nice timeline, the last 3 months?
> Also google “sierra army depot” if you believe Nato is running low on weapons hahahaa.



Russians advanced few hundreds meters on all the frontline with 300.000 more cannon fodders in 4 months, obviously the dude's full on copium.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609954121011941376

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Yes, it could be soldier's mobiles, but it could also be official Russian Army communications, or information passed on to Ukraine by a civilian, or a spy satellite. The bottom line is there should never have been 600 men billeted in a single building, and certainly not in one packed with ammunition as appears to be the case.


I remember a few months ago they were showing the Russian trenches in the East near Kharkiv after being occupied by the Russian for 5 or 6 months, that picture was horrific and there don't seems to be an order for thing, I remember I had pointed out that that is just bad soldiering and it reflected a lot about Russian military as a whole. 

And then this happened, I mean bunching that many people in the same place that close to the front line is something competent armies would never do. That's just bad soldiering and whoever bunch that much people on top of a ammo dump (forgot to mention in my previous post) ought to be shot.


vi-va said:


> I mean, even if Russia hold 2300 tons of gold, it's about 107 billions U.S. dollars instead of 1.5 trillion dollars as you mentioned.
> 
> 107 billions is nothing. Apple revenue in 2022 is 394.33 billion U.S. dollars, so around a quarter of Apple revenue. Or about one year Apple margin.



hmm, interesting, I was kind of in a hurry and didn't double check, probably mistyped in my calculator?? But yeah, my point is still the same tho, thanks for pointing out the error.

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## gambit

Deino said:


> OMG
> 
> First, we read this BS already several times and even if it would be the first time, do you read the amount of BS and nonsense before you hit the send button? Or is this some sort of writing-diarrhea?
> *I really never read so much stupidity* especially from a self-proclaimed inventor and genius … or do you get money for each such post?


Stupidity is the best way to troll a forum without breaking forum rules.

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## Viet

vi-va said:


> I mean, even if Russia hold 2300 tons of gold, it's about 107 billions U.S. dollars instead of 1.5 trillion dollars as you mentioned.
> 
> 107 billions is nothing. Apple revenue in 2022 is 394.33 billion U.S. dollars, so around a quarter of Apple revenue. Or about one year Apple margin.


Yes more billions than trillions. Russia’s most valuable company is Gazprom, while Apple in the US, Toyota in Japan. It just shows human brains is hundreds more worth than gold and silver.

Except Norway and other western countries only few countries rich in oil and gas in the world make it to developed status. Katar comes in my mind. The oil sheiks are smart. Russia is not among them. That’s because Russia autocrats are dumb. Other countries are neglectable.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611052287954149377

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611044629276655646

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611062519291936768
50 Bradleys in next weapons package

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## A.P. Richelieu

Misha Firer


Brutalsky Son of Quora.




www.quora.com





*Did Putin really just try to defend his country by comparing criticism of Russia to Rowling being under fire for her attacks on 'cancel culture'?*





Actor and director of Oleg Tabakov Theatre Vladimir Mashkov is a rabid Z patriot who gave hated-filled speeches at the rally-concert on Luzhniki Stadium, on Red Square and in Donbas. He placed the largest zwastika on the facade of his theatre in Moscow, the only such egregious act of support for war in Ukraine from a private citizen. Other zwastikas in Moscow are placed on the facades of government and municipal buildings.
No other person has done so much for canceling Russian culture as Putin.
It is reflected in the rapid pace of disappearance of a large number of directors, stage designers, artists, playwrights in Russia who either immigrated in protest of war, or are being driven out because they refuse to be spokespersons for the fascist ideology.
Moscow organization "United Exhibition Hall" deals with contemporary art. They are obligated to transfer lists of artists whose works are going to be exhibited in the museums for the review of the special officials in the Department of Culture of Moscow to weed out those who have made anti-war statements.
In classical music, many have been denied performing in the Great Hall of the Conservatory and in the Tchaikovsky Hall.
In contemporary music where artists have been more outspoken due to the more outgoing nature of their relations with the fans, the situation is much worse.
Schools, universities discos and even restaurants are prohibited from putting on the music from the long list of banned artists, which competes with the similar list compiled during the Soviet era.
Rappers Morgenstern, Noize MC, Oximoron are banned from giving concerts in Russia. And so are popular pop band Nogu Svelo, rock stars Yuri Shevchuk and DDT; Mashina Vremeni and Boris Gremendchekov and his band Acvrium are banned again same as they were during the communist era.
There are calls to strip Valery Miladze of his citizenship because he was overheard saying “Slava Ukraine” during his concert in Dubai.
Putin’s Russian culture canceling have ended careers of the rock band B-2, Zemphira, Vera Brezhneva, Svetlana Loboda, pop superstar Alla Pugacheva and many others.
Bookstores in Moscow were requested to hide books by opposition-minded authors from their shelves.
UK-based author Akunin of bestselling crime fiction books about the adventure of Erast Mandarin written in the manner of French historical mystery novels have been taken off the shelves of the bookstores due to him speaking critically about the regime and war.
Other banned writers are Natalya Baranova, Dmitry Bykov, Victor Vakhshtein, Dmitry Glukhovsky, author of the super-popular Metro 2033 novels, Mikhail Zygar, Vladimir Kara-Murza, Andrei Makarevich, Alexander Nevzorov, Leonid Parfenov, Evgeny Ponasenkov, another bestselling writer Ludmila Ulitskaya, Ekaterina Shulman.




*Prince Lemon introduces a new tax on precipitation.*






Soviet cartoon Cipollino is banned in Russia.
Putin even canceled Soviet cartoon Cipollino, the Onion Boy because in it vegetables fight the unjust treatment of fruit royalty.
All the characters in the cartoon look suspiciously like they were drawn from the real persons in the Kremlin leadership, and the grand finale in the cartoon seems to foreshadow the forthcoming revolution in Putin’s Russia.
Vladimir Putin, Prince Lemon in Cipollino, the most cowardly supreme leader in Russian history and his clique of thieves and KGB henchmen, is terrified that the cartoon would serve as a playbook to overthrow them.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611063751507075074
20-40 Marders on top of the 50 Bradley’s

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

gambit said:


> Stupidity is the best way to troll a forum without breaking forum rules.



Being stupid is not easy for the Asians unless you are an Indian. It may be a common trait for the Russians & the Europeans.

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## hembo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611040485690204160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611055353755467778

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> I remember a few months ago they were showing the Russian trenches in the East near Kharkiv after being occupied by the Russian for 5 or 6 months, that picture was horrific and there don't seems to be an order for thing, I remember I had pointed out that that is just bad soldiering and it reflected a lot about Russian military as a whole.
> 
> And then this happened, I mean bunching that many people in the same place that close to the front line is something competent armies would never do. That's just bad soldiering and whoever bunch that much people on top of a ammo dump (forgot to mention in my previous post) ought to be shot.
> 
> 
> hmm, interesting, I was kind of in a hurry and didn't double check, probably mistyped in my calculator?? But yeah, my point is still the same tho, thanks for pointing out the error.



The accuracy of those HIMARS is astounding. The building was surrounded by housing and yet not one of them appears to have been hit. Accommodations troops in an ammunition store what a brilliant idea as what could possibly go wrong.

Pity it wasn't the Wagner group /units or his pumped up football hooligan brigade

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> The accuracy of those HIMARS is astounding. The building was surrounded by housing and yet not one of them appears to have been hit. Accommodations troops in an ammunition store what a brilliant idea as what could possibly go wrong.
> 
> Pity it wasn't the Wagner group /units or his pumped up football hooligan brigade


This kind of accuracy is not possible unless someone is lazing the target on ground, it must have been Covert Ops involved. 

Both the Ukrainian and the Russian said 6 missile salvo was fired, which mean this is most likely a strike package, or Tier 1 target. The Ukrainian really wanted that build to go, and that is for a reason.



jhungary said:


> My Prediction on the Ukrainian War in 2023
> 
> 1.) Russia is going to try for another offensive most likely between March to June. Most likely direction is North thru Belarus to Kyiv (If Belarussian play balls with Russian) if not then Russia would most likely try to retake Lyman in the North East.
> 
> 2.) Ukraine will focus on the current condition setting and attack Svatove and most likely open up another front in Zaporizhzhia
> 
> 3.) High Chance for Russia to lose Kreminna and Svatove before Summer.
> 
> 4.) Medium to Low chance Russia will lose Melitopol or Mariupol by Summer
> 
> 5.) Medium to Low chance for Russia to be successful on the Spring Offensive
> 
> 6.) Bakhmut direction will largely remain unchanged.
> 
> 7.) NATO will increase weapon transfer to Ukraine.


kind of smug quoting my own quote, but number 7 is becoming true just 6 days into 2023......

France are sending AMX-10 and most likely US and Germany will follow up by sending Bradley and Marauder

I still think tanks are off limit tho, at least until end of the year.

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## F-22Raptor

With the deliveries of Bradley’s, Marders, and more HIMARS, we’re now approaching the point where the US/NATO believe Ukraine can liberate all its territory. They’re now preparing for a major spring offensive to destroy Russian lines. 

I expect Russia will be defeated by the end of the year with Ukraine regaining most of its territory.

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> With the deliveries of Bradley’s, Marders, and more HIMARS, we’re now approaching the point where the US/NATO believe Ukraine can liberate all its territory. They’re now preparing for a major spring offensive to destroy Russian lines.
> 
> I expect Russia will be defeated by the end of the year with Ukraine regaining most of its territory.


That’s good. That will be a big push for Ukraine but those light tanks would be probably not enough for the final battles at Mariupol and Crimea.
The west should seriously deliver heavy battle tanks. Let’s do it. Let’s Ukraine finish the job. You think north Vietnam would take over south Vietnam with light tanks at the final battle of 1975?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611074141213392897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611073833431097355

Official announcement of Bradley and Marder IFVs. Also Germany will be providing an additional Patriot battery

New US weapons package for Ukraine will be worth $2.85B. Largest package to date

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## Ali_Baba

The Bradleys(and other vehicles) are stepping stone to Abrahams, Leopards and Leclerc's as once crews are trained on the smaller tanks - they can be moved to the larger tanks..

I dont think there are issues with supplying tanks - it was getting the trust that Ukraine can use modern western weapons effectively and they could make good use of them. That is proven now. So there will be an uptick in larger equipment heading to ukraine it seems.

It started with M113 troop carriers, now IFV/Mini-tanks.. the scale is getting bigger.

This is the clearest signal that the big tanks are heading to Ukraine !!!!!!!!!!!

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> The Bradleys(and other vechicles) are stepping stone to Abrahams, Leopards and Leclerc's as once crews are trained on the smaller tanks - they can be moved to the larger tanks..
> 
> I dont think there are issues with supplying tanks - it was getting the trust that Ukraine can use modern western weapons effectively and they could make good use of them. That is proven now. So there will be an uptick in larger equipment heading to ukraine it seems.
> 
> It started with M113 troop carriers, now IFV/Mini-tanks.. the scale is getting bigger.
> 
> This is the clearest signal that the big tanks are heading to Ukraine !!!!!!!!!!!



It also demonstrates the confidence US/NATO have in Ukraine forces. They wouldn’t deliver these weapons if they thought Ukraine couldn’t defeat Russia.

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## Georg

Germany and the USA want to support Ukraine with more weapons: Both countries have announced the delivery of infantry fighting vehicles. Germany is supplying Ukraine with "Marder" tanks and a Patriot missile defense system. Chancellor Olaf Scholz and US President Joe Biden agreed on the phone on Thursday evening, according to a joint press release. The US will also supply the government in Kyiv with light Bradley armored personnel carriers and a Patriot system. The United States had already announced the delivery of the air defense system in December. Both governments also want to take care of the training of Ukrainian soldiers on the respective weapon systems. No information was given about the specific number of tanks or a delivery date. The German-American agreement is the result of votes that have been ongoing between the two governments since December 10th. On Wednesday, France announced that it intended to deliver AMX-10 RC reconnaissance tanks to Ukraine. Vice Chancellor Robert Habeck said at noon that a decision would be made "imminently". Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock had previously indicated another delivery. Berlin will "repeatedly check what further military support is needed so that more people can be freed," Baerbock told journalists in London after talks with her British colleague James Cleverly. The defense of Ukraine "of course also includes the liberation of the occupied areas," Kyiv needs the necessary funds for this. "We have to constantly look at what we can do more," said Baerbock.

https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten...d-usa-liefern-schuetzenpanzer-an-ukraine.html

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## Ali_Baba

Macron promises to send first Western tanks to Ukraine


French move piles pressure on Germany to follow.




www.politico.eu







> Built for Soviet times​The AMX-10 is a light, highly mobile, armoured vehicle equipped with a 105mm cannon. It has been used in reconnaissance missions for the French army and was deployed as recently as the Barkhane mission in Africa, which formally ended in November.
> 
> “It’s a vehicle that was designed in the 70s and 80s to track the advance of Soviet armed land forces. The paradox is that it will be used today for the purpose it was built for … because the Russians have shown their doctrine hasn’t shifted much since the Soviet times,” Pellistrandi said.



Tells you all you need to know about the might "Red Army.." - it is still a little "too Red.."

PS - How many Leopard tanks do Germany have in storage ? Anyone knopw?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610693623338737664
France also sending armor

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## Ali_Baba

Russia-Ukraine war live: Putin’s ceasefire proposal shows he is ‘trying to find oxygen’, says Biden


The Russian president has called for ceasefire to take place from noon 6 January to midnight 7 January for Orthodox Christmas




www.theguardian.com




*
Germany to join US in supplying Patriot air defence battery to Ukraine

Germany will join the US in supplying an additional Patriot air defence battery to Ukraine, the White House has announced, after the German chancellor Olaf Scholz and US president Joe Biden spoke by phone.*

The German and US leaders “expressed their common determination to continue to provide the necessary financial, humanitarian, military and diplomatic support to Ukraine for as long as needed”, the White House said in a statement.

The statement goes on to say:

* The United States intends to supply Ukraine with Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles, and Germany intends to provide Ukraine with Marder Infantry Fighting Vehicles. Both countries plan to train Ukrainian forces on the respective systems.*

President Biden and Chancellor Scholz also discussed further supporting Ukraine’s “urgent requirement for air defence capabilities”, it said.

*In late December, the United States announced its donation of a Patriot air defence missile battery to Ukraine. Germany will join the United States in supplying an additional Patriot air defence battery to Ukraine.*

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## Georg

Ali_Baba said:


> Macron promises to send first Western tanks to Ukraine
> 
> 
> French move piles pressure on Germany to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tells you all you need to know about the might "Red Army.." - it is still a little "too Red.."
> 
> PS - How many Leopard tanks do Germany have in storage ? Anyone knopw?


Leopard 2 about 100... split between Army storage (46) and company storage (for building upgraded versions)
Note the Leo2 is still in production (currently Hungary recive completely new build Leo2 A7+ and the Leo2 A7A1 that enter service this year also use completely new build chassis.
Leopard1 only Rheinmetal has 100 Leo1 A5 in storage... they offered 50 of them rigth from start of the war

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611083178193608711

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## A.P. Richelieu

Some comment from a (not too happy) Bradley Commander












…




…




…




…




…




…


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## 925boy

Ali_Baba said:


> The Bradleys(and other vehicles) are stepping stone to Abrahams, Leopards and Leclerc's as once crews are trained on the smaller tanks - they can be moved to the larger tanks..


agreed- Bradley and these tanks in Ukrainian hands will give Russia actual combat experience against what NATO might send to fight Russia down the line.

These equipments wont give Ukraine a win though, pretty confident in that. equipment doesnt win wars, determination and tenacity does.


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## A.P. Richelieu

…




…


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## jhungary

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 909574
> 
> …
> View attachment 909575
> 
> …
> View attachment 909577


Sadly, he wasn't wrong about the issue with Bradley, some even I had mentioned before. I remember joking around farting inside a Bradley in some thread here to issue how lack of space and cramp the quarter is.

The thing is, I doubt Ukraine will use it the way we do, they will use it more like an IFV than an APC. If they want a pure maneuver APC, it would be better off like the guy said, stick to 113 (Which is what I said before in some thread)

By the way, just for reference and put into perspective. "Hell Hole" refer to the space next to the turret and between the Troop Compartment and Driver Compartment, it was supposed to be where the 7th man sat, but mostly people use to store ration and ammunition because it is hard to access.


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## Georg

last week delivery to Ukraine from Germany

20 rocket launchers 70mm on pick-up trucks with rockets* 
15 armored recovery vehicles (Bergepanzer 2)* (previously: 13) 
13 M1070 Oshkosh* heavy-duty semitrailers (previously: 12) 
7 remote-controlled tracked vehicles for support tasks* 
143 pickup* (previously: 80) 
216 generators (previously: 195) 
35 8x8 trucks with interchangeable loading system (previously: 18) 
148 field heaters* (previously: 116) 
26 reconnaissance drones* (previously: 18) 
36 ambulances* (previously: 35) 
85 border patrol vehicles* (previously 78) 
36,400 blankets 
12 heavy-duty articulated trucks* 
55 anti-drone sensors and jammers* (up from 28) 
30 drone detection sensors*

in preparation for this week
114 reconnaissance drones* (previously: 22)

complete list of military equipment delivered since begin of war

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## Georg

Germany will send 40 Marder IFV according to a tweet of the defence ministry

https://esut.de/2023/01/meldungen/3...e-in-die-ukraine-aus-den-usa-kommen-bradleys/


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611092174128439303

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## kingQamaR

Georg said:


> Germany will send 40 Marder IFV according to a tweet of the defence ministry
> 
> https://esut.de/2023/01/meldungen/3...e-in-die-ukraine-aus-den-usa-kommen-bradleys/



Why bother? HIMARS is annihilating Russian formations from miles away on a daily basis.

Phase Two Incomimng ?!!

That’s Ukrainian offensive?


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## Viet

925boy said:


> agreed- Bradley and these tanks in Ukrainian hands will give Russia actual combat experience against what NATO might send to fight Russia down the line.
> 
> These equipments wont give Ukraine a win though, pretty confident in that. equipment doesnt win wars, determination and tenacity does.


You should ask Putin what determination he has? What’s the endgame? It’s hopeless for him to win this war.

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## Georg

kingQamaR said:


> Why bother? HIMARS is annihilating Russian formations from miles away on a daily basis.
> 
> Phase Two Incomimng ?!!
> 
> That’s Ukrainian offensive?



Himars cant take ground and protect and support infantry directly... silly question


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## Ali_Baba

Tanks 'may well be part' of UK's future support packages for Ukraine


It comes as the United States today announced yet another multi-billion dollar military aid package to support Kyiv in the face of Russian aggression would be unveiled on Friday




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> UK now talking about sending tanks etc but there is nothing much in stock we can send since the UK Gov has run down inventory stocks and weapons by so much for the British Army.


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## kingQamaR

Georg said:


> Himars cant take ground and protect and support infantry directly... silly question



Correction, Ukrainians have already taken huge swaths of territories already via Himars. Without your wunder tanks


----------



## The SC

Russia announced a ceasefire day for the orthodox new year eve..


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611075305069748224


Georg said:


> last week delivery to Ukraine from Germany
> 
> 20 rocket launchers 70mm on pick-up trucks with rockets*
> 15 armored recovery vehicles (Bergepanzer 2)* (previously: 13)
> 13 M1070 Oshkosh* heavy-duty semitrailers (previously: 12)
> 7 remote-controlled tracked vehicles for support tasks*
> 143 pickup* (previously: 80)
> 216 generators (previously: 195)
> 35 8x8 trucks with interchangeable loading system (previously: 18)
> 148 field heaters* (previously: 116)
> 26 reconnaissance drones* (previously: 18)
> 36 ambulances* (previously: 35)
> 85 border patrol vehicles* (previously 78)
> 36,400 blankets
> 12 heavy-duty articulated trucks*
> 55 anti-drone sensors and jammers* (up from 28)
> 30 drone detection sensors*
> 
> in preparation for this week
> 114 reconnaissance drones* (previously: 22)
> 
> complete list of military equipment delivered since begin of war



Too little. Germany needs to spend 10 trillion dollars, build 1,000 generators and send to Ukraine, and spend another 10 trillion dollars buying oil from Saudi Arabia to power the generators.



Ali_Baba said:


> Tanks 'may well be part' of UK's future support packages for Ukraine
> 
> 
> It comes as the United States today announced yet another multi-billion dollar military aid package to support Kyiv in the face of Russian aggression would be unveiled on Friday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> UK now talking about sending tanks etc but there is nothing much in stock we can send since the UK Gov has run down inventory stocks and weapons by so much for the British Army.



What about the Challengers 1 tanks from the 80s?


----------



## PakFactor

@LeGenD @RescueRanger @waz @kingQamaR @khansaheeb@jhungary

Interesting read, it took 5% of the U.S. Military budget to destroy half of the Russian equipment in Ukraine. The loss of life is irreplaceable. 

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what happens when you have stupid leadership that's only good at hearing "Yes, Sir" and fails to hear criticism and learn from it.

Some might say the strategy and tactics employed were poor, but I will give them that. However, adjustments are made during the conflict, and the Russians failed even at this.

"Just before Christmas, President Joe Biden signed the Fiscal 2023 National Defense Authorization Act into law, allotting $816.7 billion to the Pentagon. If we divide that number into four unofficial major categories that address near-peer adversaries, transnational threats, and logistical concerns (China, Russia, Global War on Terrorism, and modernization of the military), we get approximately 200 billion allocated for dealing with the Russian military.

So, the U.S. has managed to indirectly half the combat capability of the Russian forces with just one-quarter of the amount by supporting Ukraine."


5% of the U.S. Defense Budget Destroyed 50% of Russia's Military in Ukraine (msn.com)

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611123787075911680
Russian losses now exceed 8,600

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611123787075911680
> Russian losses now exceed 8,600



Very little. By comparison. Russia lost 2 million men in WW1, 4 million men in WW2.

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## Wolfhunter

waz said:


> New thread created as a result of so many tweets, links that now corrupt the download.


Please can admin ask people to limit the posting of tweets. It makes reading threads near impossible.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611091138114646016

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> It seems a base of chechen tiktok batallion got himarsed
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610936955516190721
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610937158214238208




That shows only 1 mujahid who died fighting the forces of the Antichrist. (AUN)


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## Georg

kingQamaR said:


> Correction, Ukrainians have already taken huge swaths of territories already via Himars. Without your wunder tanks


Himars is one of many Arty systems Ukraine use... MLRS fires exactly the same rockets and is already in numbers in Ukraine but no one raves about them as much as about 20 HIMARS... at the end of the day Arty prepare the ground for offensive... but they cant take any ground by themself

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## Ali_Baba



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## One_Nation

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611123787075911680
> Russian losses now exceed 8,600


This is a great achievement for Americans. Not one American soldier lost, making Ukies do the dirty work.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611063751507075074
> 20-40 Marders on top of the 50 Bradley’s




Good target practice for Russia's guided anti-tank weapons.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611128959713902594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611129362228695040

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## Georg

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Good target practice for Russia's guided anti-tank weapons.


our monkey speak


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian Ka-52 helicopters have been busy from the air. Let the West send those tanks and IFVs. It is guaranteed these helicopters and Lancet drones are gonna take them down.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610964338310844418

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Georg said:


> our monkey speak



Insults against member. @waz @The Eagle

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## kingQamaR

PakFactor said:


> @LeGenD @RescueRanger @waz @kingQamaR @khansaheeb@jhungary
> 
> Interesting read, it took 5% of the U.S. Military budget to destroy half of the Russian equipment in Ukraine. The loss of life is irreplaceable.
> 
> This, ladies and gentlemen, is what happens when you have stupid leadership that's only good at hearing "Yes, Sir" and fails to hear criticism and learn from it.
> 
> Some might say the strategy and tactics employed were poor, but I will give them that. However, adjustments are made during the conflict, and the Russians failed even at this.
> 
> "Just before Christmas, President Joe Biden signed the Fiscal 2023 National Defense Authorization Act into law, allotting $816.7 billion to the Pentagon. If we divide that number into four unofficial major categories that address near-peer adversaries, transnational threats, and logistical concerns (China, Russia, Global War on Terrorism, and modernization of the military), we get approximately 200 billion allocated for dealing with the Russian military.
> 
> So, the U.S. has managed to indirectly half the combat capability of the Russian forces with just one-quarter of the amount by supporting Ukraine."
> 
> 
> 5% of the U.S. Defense Budget Destroyed 50% of Russia's Military in Ukraine (msn.com)





Russia are using tactics that don't win in modern warfare, Ukraine are, smart, tactical and since 2014 well trained by the West. Russia seem to think sending lines of soldiers across a field against modern, advanced weapons will get results. Stupidity at it's finest, they had a cake walk in Syria against untrained civis, this is very different and they're getting a beat down, by Ukraine. The Western alliance must be delighted.. they now have Putin right where they want him ....digging a bigger and bigger hole for himself, being constantly drained of military resources, funds, public popularity, ability to fight even and certainly the ability to govern Russia. Their support for Ukraine is a superb cover for a continuing 'seriously degrade and diminish Russia' campaign! They have seen a golden opportunity and grabbed it with both hands.

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## Georg

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russian Ka-52 helicopters have been busy from the air. Let the West send those tanks and IFVs. It is guaranteed these helicopters and Lancet drones are gonna take them down.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610964338310844418


you mean the Ka-52 that get shoot down in huge numbers  
how many have they already lost 25% of their total number of Ka-52 LOL

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## Wolfhunter

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611128959713902594
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611129362228695040


That scumbag WarGonzo is still alive?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Georg said:


> you mean the Ka-52 that get shoot down in huge numbers
> how many have they already lost 25% of their total number of Ka-52 LOL



Russia builds more Ka-52. Production has shifted to Ka-52M which has long range NLOS missiles. Good luck shooting down Ka-52M with MANPADS.

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## Georg

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Russia builds more Ka-52. Production has shifted to Ka-52M which has long range NLOS missiles. Good luck shooting down Ka-52M with MANPADS.


MUHAHAHa the Vodka force is strong in this youngling

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Georg said:


> MUHAHAHa the Vodka force is strong in this youngling





https://tass.com/defense/1558861


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Some people in this forum think that 50 Bradley IFVs plus a dozen apcs from France and Germany will change the course of this war. A few bombing runs from Ka-52s and Lancet drones will take care of these IFVs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611138648099131394

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Some people in this forum think that 50 Bradley IFVs plus a dozen apcs from France and Germany will change the course of this war and the certain victory that Russia will achieve after they bring the whole Ukraine into its knees. A few bombing runs from Ka-52s and Lancet drones will take care of these IFVs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611138648099131394



50 Bradley will pave the way for more heavy equipments.

Few bradleys totally wiped out entire Iraqi armored columns this dude's full on BS.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> Few bradleys totally wiped out entire Iraqi armored columns this dude's full on BS.



Iraqi army cannot be compared to Russian army. T-72 is nowhere close to T-90M in terms of capability.

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## 925boy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Some people in this forum think that 50 Bradley IFVs plus a dozen apcs from France and Germany will change the course of this war. A few bombing runs from Ka-52s and Lancet drones will take care of these IFVs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611138648099131394


France couldnt even send Caesar artillery stems so they now sent BOX-looking Iranian Raksh APC knock off to Ukrainian soldiers?
lmaooooooooooo. France really shouldnt send these boxes on wheels with little armor to the frontline- Russia will grill Ukranian troops using them sooo easily...Ukranian troops are dying faster already from stupid commando raids that expose them on the ground with little protection other than their bullet proof vest...even DPR and LPR is targeting them easily when they do those commando raids..smh.


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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Some people in this forum think that 50 Bradley IFVs plus a dozen apcs from France and Germany will change the course of this war. A few bombing runs from Ka-52s and Lancet drones will take care of these IFVs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611138648099131394



Your aware that Bradley’s tore apart Soviet armor in Desert Storm right?

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> Your aware that Bradley’s tore apart Soviet armor in Desert Storm right?


did Iranian EFPs rip through Bradleys in Iraq? just curious, since you make it seem invincible. i really hope they can be maintained on the front line too, because if they're stuck, they become a sitting duck for easy targeting. 

More weapons wont help Ukraine's lack of manpower enough- that seems to be showing now.

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## Wolfhunter

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Some people in this forum think that 50 Bradley IFVs plus a dozen apcs from France and Germany will change the course of this war. A few bombing runs from Ka-52s and Lancet drones will take care of these IFVs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611138648099131394


Will Schryver is a paid Russian Shill. He served in the USMC and had a tour of Iraq. His credibility is in the dustbin



925boy said:


> More weapons wont help Ukraine's lack of manpower enough- that seems to be showing now.


What are you on about 😂









Russia’s Soldier Shortage: Here’s Why It’s Recruiting Foreign Fighters


Experts say Russia doesn’t have enough troops to occupy Ukraine — and recruiting Syrians and Chechen paramilitaries is unlikely to help.




www.forbes.com

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## F-22Raptor

925boy said:


> did Iranian EFPs rip through Bradleys in Iraq? just curious, since you make it seem invincible. i really hope they can be maintained on the front line too, because if they're stuck, they become a sitting duck for easy targeting.
> 
> More weapons wont help Ukraine's lack of manpower enough- that seems to be showing now.



Bradley’s aren’t invincible, but they’re by far the best IFV in the war and a huge upgrade for Ukraine. The Bradley’s 25mm will tear through BMPs and they can see and shoot farther than T-72s with their TOWs.

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## Georg

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Some people in this forum think that 50 Bradley IFVs plus a dozen apcs from France and Germany will change the course of this war and the certain victory that Russia will achieve after they bring the whole Ukraine into its knees. A few bombing runs from Ka-52s and Lancet drones will take care of these IFVs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611138648099131394


as far as I know the great russian plan to overrun Ukraine went boom as some Byraktar murdered the attack from north and later a handfull of HIMARS paved the way for two successful giant counter offensives ... every weapon delivered to Ukarine by the west has so far turned out to be 100 time better than anything Russia has moved to the frontline...

were are all those propaganda wonder weapons 

TOS .... claimed to put fear into every NATO soldier... useless
Terminator ... after getting bloody noses early in conflict it disapear from frontline
T-14 never showed up at all
T-90M holds record for the longest turret fligth cougth on cam by whooping 15s..hello dady Javelin
SU 57...never showed up
all their jets fall from the sky like dead birds...even the one far away from the front
over 300 days war and still no controll of the sky
airbases deep in Russia getting attacked...total fail of their highly overhyped air defence
6months trying to take a little village
300days into the war and they still dont know that mobile phones are dead penalty for their soldiers


the 100 IFV are no game changer but something more to worry about for this joke of an Orc Army


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Georg said:


> as far as I know the great russian plan to overrun Ukraine went boom as some Byraktar murdered the attack from north and later a handfull of HIMARS paved the way for two successful giant counter offensives ... every weapon delivered to Ukarine by the west has so far turned out to be 100 time better than anything Russia has moved to the frontline...
> 
> were are all those propaganda wonder weapons
> 
> TOS .... claimed to put fear into every NATO soldier... useless
> Terminator ... after getting bloody noses early in conflict it disapear from frontline
> T-14 never showed up at all
> T-90M holds record for the longest turret fligth cougth on cam by whooping 15s..hello dady Javelin
> SU 57...never showed up
> all their jets fall from the sky like dead birds...even the one far away from the front
> over 300 days war and still no controll of the sky
> airbases deep in Russia getting attacked...total fail of their highly overhyped air defence
> 6months trying to take a little village
> 300days into the war and they still dont know that mobile phones are dead penalty for their soldiers
> 
> 
> the 100 IFV are no game changer but something more to worry about for this joke of an Orc Army



Russians are peaceful people. Only a small part of the army is used for Ukraine war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611155617158254593
US to send Sea Sparrow missiles to launch from Buks

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> hehehehe, she is not australian. She lived in australia for some time pretended she had money, bought a 4 million dollar house on national TV, and then disappeared form australia, never to be seen again. Now she is scamming ukranians it seems. She is likely a Hungarian.


That's the woman from The Block. 

I think VICPOL still looking for her. 

Think she is Polish-Hungarian

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Wolfhunter said:


> Will Schryver is a paid Russian Shill. He served in the USMC and had a tour of Iraq. His credibility is in the dustbin



He is actually well-informed, unlike the rest of the sheeple who are brainwashed by the mainstream lame media. Perhaps you should pay attention to his analysis. 

Also, trying to use the "paid Russian shill" against anyone who doesn't fall for the official propaganda just shows you swallow what you hear from MSNBC and CNN. You definitely need to research facts outside of those propaganda outlets.




Wolfhunter said:


> What are you on about 😂
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Soldier Shortage: Here’s Why It’s Recruiting Foreign Fighters
> 
> 
> Experts say Russia doesn’t have enough troops to occupy Ukraine — and recruiting Syrians and Chechen paramilitaries is unlikely to help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com



The article that you quoted is 10 month old. Where do you see the Syrian fighters fighting in the Donbass region? You just proved my previous point. Stay clear from those propaganda outlets, and you should be able to see the root causes of this war from a different angle.


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611155617158254593
> US to send Sea Sparrow missiles to launch from Buks



Wondering if these are the RIM-7 Sparrows or Evolved Sea Sparrows?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611155617158254593
> US to send Sea Sparrow missiles to launch from Buks




Another proof that the West is getting nervous and doing everything they can to slow down the guaranteed Russian military victory over the cannon fodder aka Ukrainians.

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## War Eagle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Some people in this forum think that 50 Bradley IFVs plus a dozen apcs from France and Germany will change the course of this war. A few bombing runs from Ka-52s and Lancet drones will take care of these IFVs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611138648099131394



I doubt that. Russia's use of attack helicopters has dramatically fallen from the beginning of the war, they get picked off pretty easily due to a proliferation of MANPADs. Lancet drones are few and far between. They really haven't been deployed on the mass scale that would be expected of suicide drones, probably due to limited production. 

The Bradley will complement the many APCs and MBTs that Ukraine currently operates. They're more mobile than MBTs, especially in urban combat.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Another proof that the West is getting nervous and doing everything they can to slow down the guaranteed Russian military victory over the cannon fodder aka Ukrainians.



No, these are just the first steps in finally crushing the Russians. They’ve already lost 50% of the territory they gained in Feb/March. It’s just a matter of time for the rest.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

U.S. weapons package for Ukraine includes 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles -officials​






WASHINGTON, Jan 5 (Reuters) - A new U.S. weapons package for Ukraine will include about 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, two U.S. officials said on Thursday, with one of the officials saying the package will be worth roughly $2.8 billion.

On Wednesday President Joe Biden said that sending Bradley Fighting Vehicles, a U.S. Army staple, to Ukraine was being considered to help fight Russia's invasion.

The latest security package for Ukraine is expected to be unveiled on Friday, the officials said.









U.S. weapons package for Ukraine includes 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles -officials


A new U.S. weapons package for Ukraine will include about 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, two U.S. officials said on Thursday, with one of the officials saying the package will be worth roughly $2.8 billion.




www.reuters.com





But but but "NATO is running out of missiles and ammunition" LOL

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## Get Ya Wig Split

MILITARY MUSCLE:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611067874856079366

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611132931711406088
Ukraine is gonna beat the sht outta Russia in 2023

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611155617158254593
> US to send Sea Sparrow missiles to launch from Buks



Looks like it’s the RIM-7 Sparrows. Large stockpile too!

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> Looks like it’s the RIM-7 Sparrows. Large stockpile too!



how or what will guide them. Don’t follow or understand?


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610703031997284363
Nice...

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## aviator_fan

thetutle said:


> All the Himars are gone, russia has no need to worry. Bring troops and supplies within 75km of the front line.


and with full permission for Russian army to turn their phones on to really prove 35 out of the 20 HIMARS launchers are destroyed

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Its almost 1 year now and the whole of NATO+ are still unable to defeat and balkanize Russia.

What a shame

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611162803699867648


Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Its almost 1 year now and the whole of NATO+ are still unable to defeat and balkanize Russia.
> 
> What a shame



Napoleon and Hitler tried that and died. Anglos don't dare to invade Russia.


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## Stranagor

925boy said:


> The war seems to be getting worse for Ukraine- critical territories being lost still, Huge manpower losses consistenyly happening- US and NATO LOW ON WEAPONS.....good luck Ukraine- 2023 will be the decisive year of this war!



That's a personal projection of some hopeful thoughts on a war that has not evolved according to Russia's initial invasion plans. 

Manpower loss is a relative concept. Since Ukraine is fighting against an invasion which threatens its sovereignty and nationhood, it has no other option but fight back. 

Russia systematically exterminated North Caucasian people are in past 300+ years, but, once the population recovered, people rose up. 

Russia has reinforced, not undermined Ukrainian nationhood, which is, in my opinion, their largest strategic mistake. 

If the US failed to make a nation out of the Afghan people and pulled out, Russia will fail to destroy Ukrainian nationhood. Then, all manpower loss is relative. 

NATO is stronger than ever. Russia is weakened. It has to sell oil at dirt cheap rates to find customers. It has to seek assistance from Iran and North Korea. It has to engage in rogue state tactics to keep its trade vessels running, processor imports going. Worst yet, it has to engage in extreme brainwashing on national TV, telling people how Russian territory is going to get bigger.

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## Stranagor

Viet said:


> Putin exposes himself as hooligan. He says he only agrees to peace talks if Ukraine accepts all demands including ceding territories to Russia.



I think he uses a creative concept, "new territorial realities." Very much like Hitler's concept of labensraum. Or, the concept of "blue territory." First forcefully changing the status quo, and then, under status quo ante, claiming a new set of reality. Didn't work for Hitler or Hirohito; won't work for Putin, either.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Its almost 1 year now and the whole of NATO+ are still unable to defeat and balkanize Russia.
> 
> What a shame



Well, it was Russia which initially wanted to destroy Ukrainian nationhood, yet unable to turn it into a failed state. On fact, it is Russia that shows the signs of a failed state. What a failure.



Viet said:


> It’s very dangerous to give weapons to diverse non army groups as Wagner hooligans, Patriot nationalists, Kadydrow’s Checkens, Donbas, Luhansk separatists, Syria ex mercenaries, prison inmates, etc.
> They can turn weapons on him one day you don’t know.
> but Putin wants to remain in power at all costs until he falls death of heart attack like Stalin.



Russia may face a warring states period under unruly warlords. And that's with a huge arsenal of nuclear weapons. 

With his newfound very aggressive rhetoric, Medvedev could be trimming himself for such an opportunity.

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## A.P. Richelieu

The Fall of Russia


Analysis by Bruno Tertrais, Advisor for Geopolitics, at Institut Montaigne.




www.institutmontaigne.org




​
The Fall of Russia​ANALYSES - 14 DECEMBER 2022



By Bruno Tertrais​ADVISOR FOR GEOPOLITICS
Exactly one hundred years after the birth of the Soviet Union on December 30, 1922, we could well be witnessing its second collapse. Putin's attempt to reconstitute a privileged sphere of influence around Russia is turning into a catastrophe. And this catastrophe may only be the beginning. It is becoming increasingly difficult to see how Russia can emerge from its Ukrainian adventure on top. The word "historic" is often overused to describe current geopolitical developments. But sometimes it is well deserved.
On the path toward fascism?​Former French diplomat Michel Duclos accurately described the radicalization of Russian politics since Putin's return to the presidency in 2012: "_creeping color revolutions, a neo-colonialist desire to keep control of the 'near abroad,' a sense of opportunity, a perception of the West's weakness, and a desire for international assertiveness_"... and the emergence of a potential partnership with China. This outward radicalization, accelerated by Kyiv's drift towards the West, and coupled with domestic stiffening - the two feeding off of each other - escalated since the end of February. To speak today of a "totalitarian" state would be excessive. There is neither absolute control of society nor its complete mobilization in Russia today. And many citizens seem more interested to flee from the war than to join it. But speaking of a regime that is turning into fascism is becoming less and less absurd. Vladimir Putin appears to be increasingly overcome by his far-right. His strategy of co-opting violent, even neo-Nazi groups in the 1990s - to protect the country from democratic contagion - is turning against him.
Contemporary Russian political culture is marked by a de facto alliance between men from the security service (_siloviki_) and men from organized crime.
The ground was definitely fertile. The army embodies these ties in an even stronger manner due to the very structure of Russian armed forces: soldiers are often left to their own devices because of the weakness of the non-commissioned officers, and officers whose military culture has been forged by "counter-terrorism" operations in Chechnya (1999-2009), or more recently in Syria: an unleashing of indiscriminate violence devoid of any moral concern.
Chechen and Russian militias - the Wagner Group stands out - now hold the upper hand (before turning it into an iron fist?). The Russian ultranationalists used to be relatively marginal figures. "_These characters_ (...) _were satisfied to rant about nuclear war fantasies on TV. The novelty, from now on, is that they have private armies, with artillery and aviation, and a blood-stained mace as their emblem_". One must carefully read the national address given by the Russian President in the regal St. George's Hall of the Grand Kremlin Palace, on September 21, to celebrate the annexation of four Ukrainian oblasts. It is filled with references: the glorification of the past, mentions of Anglo-Saxon enemies, a promised bright future, and quotations from the philosopher Ivan Iline... All of which are troubling clues. They add to the cult of the leader, the emphasis on alleged past humiliations, state capitalism or Putin's remarks on the "_purification_" of Russia that would result from the exodus that followed the launch of Operation Z.
The alliance between the Orthodox Church and Putin also reveals disturbing rhetorical excesses. During the September 21 celebrations in Red Square, a character dressed as Doctor Strangelove from the film of the same name was seen speaking. Ivan Okhlobystin, an actor and defrocked priest, thanked God that Russia "_could no longer go backward_", and described the ongoing war as a "_confrontation between Good and Evil, between light and darkness, between God and the Devil, (...) a holy war" _that every Russian is called upon to begin_ "in his heart, against his own sins_". The same words as well-known ideologist Alexander Dugin, for whom "_the last battle of light and darkness_" has begun. Those who see here only the excesses from a loud minority would benefit from reading the once more nuanced experts such as Dmitri Trenin, who see the war as an opportunity to overcome "primitive materialism and lack of faith". An isolated point of view? Not according to some of the experts on Russian culture, who see a direct link with the nihilist tradition of the end of the 19th century, for which destruction is not "_a means but an end in itself_": it would be purifying and redemptive.
The second collapse of the Soviet Union​In Serheii Plokhi's pithy formulation - one that mimics Lord Ismay's famous quip about NATO - the Soviet Union ensured to keep "_the Ukrainians in, the Poles out, and the Russians down_". Today, Putin's neo-imperial project is collapsing. Not only has he failed to unify the Russian world (_russki mir_), but his closest neighbors, thanks to the war, now seem to want to emancipate themselves.
After having briefly called on Moscow for help to quell a nascent revolt, Kazakhstan decided to distance itself from its large neighbor. Moreover, Russia is no longer there to restore stability in its neighborhood. Because it was absent during the last clashes between Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan (even though it had brought calm there in 2021), Bishkek canceled the joint maneuvers that were to take place with the Russian army.

Above all, Moscow turned a deaf ear when Armenia, whose sovereign territory was attacked for the first time by Azerbaijani forces, invoked last September the defense guarantee contained in the founding treaty of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), NATO's substitute. As a result, Yerevan refused to sign the final document of the November 2022 CSTO meeting, which may have been the death warrant for the organization.
Can we speak of simple aftershocks of the 1991 earthquake? It is at least what former French ambassador Gérard Araud called the "_second war of succession of the USSR_". And it probably goes further. In addition to the CSTO, the other pillar of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), the Eurasian Economic Area (EEA), is also in a bad shape. Moscow was never really serious regarding regional multilateralism and cooperation among equals. Today, not only is its hard power in decline; its soft power is too. And Russia’s forced annexation of four Ukrainian oblasts provoked more fear among Moscow's neighbors than respect for the former tutelary power.
Economic dependence ties (especially with Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan) will not disappear overnight. Nor will the status of immense Russian territory as a migratory crossroad. We are familiar with what Zbigniew Brzezinski famously observed: without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be an empire. This will be especially true if Moscow's loss of influence in the rest of its environment is confirmed. Hence, we may be witnessing "_the twilight of Russian imperialism_" in the coming years. In Central Asia and the Caucasus region, other powers will take advantage of this, starting with Turkey and China as well as, if they play their cards well, Europe and the United States. Without, however, having the capacity and the will to serve as the region’s policemen - a role that Moscow assumed (it must be said) quite well. A new Great Game can begin...
The final downfall​In the best-case scenario for him, Vladimir Putin would manage to present his very likely defeat in Ukraine as a "win". Isn't this what Khrushchev did after the Cuban crisis, or autocrats such as Saddam Hussein, the latter presenting his pitiful withdrawal from Kuwait as such? Nevertheless, he will have a hard time convincing Russian public opinion that experienced a decade of brainwashing but is not totally apathetic.

Let us propose three (near-)certainties and four scenarios. First certainty: Russia in the mid-2020s will be a country undermined by military, economic (sanctions) and demographic weakening (more than 500,000 people have already left the country). Second certainty: the country is separating from Europe. Ukraine was the "western side" of the Russian body, balancing its "eastern side".
Without it, whose influence on the history and formation of Russian elites is sometimes overlooked, the Mongol and Tatar heritage of Russia will take a more important part in the national culture. The third certainty is that after the war, Russia will enter a troubled period. We know the history of the country: military debacles are often followed by political upheavals, as we saw in 1905, 1917 or 1989.
As for the scenarios, the least unfavorable one would be that of Germany after 1945. After the _Götterdämmerung_, the _Stunde Null_ of which ensued shock and trauma, then followed by introspection and healing. But Russia does not have the rule of law tradition (even with interruptions) that Germany had at the time. Not to mention that it will be difficult to put it through a Nuremberg. And the country will not be placed under the protection of a benevolent protector…
More likely, then, is the North Korean scenario: the isolation and radicalization of a fortress-Russia, in which Putin or his successors would keep the country's population in a permanent state of war. French expert Françoise Thom speaks of an "_autarkic empire_" that would wean the population away from Western influence. She quotes the writer Dmitri Gloukhovski, who evokes a Putin weaving "_a cocoon in which Russia will have to wrap itself to hibernate for decades, even centuries_", as well as the historian Vladimir Pastoukhov, who imagines a "_frozen body_", "_locked in a gigantic cryogenic chamber the size of one-seventh of the land surface_".
A step further in the pessimism scale, Russia would become (for those who are most worried) a kind of Mordor ("black country"), a desolate land in which the forces of evil are preparing their revenge and reconquest of Middle Earth. The country's descent into barbarity is already at work, according to J.R.R. Tolkien fans, who are comparing the behavior of the Russian military to that of the Orcs, those half-beast half-human soldiers capable of the worst. An exaggeration? Not really, if you realize that for the past ten years, Russia's best and brightest brains have left and, increasingly, so as its middle classes. But Russian society has become criminalized "_groups have taken over mafia rules, borrowing from them a lifestyle, physical attitudes, a sui generis 'morality', a hierarchy formed by 'godfathers' ruling over their protégés_".
Could the Russia of this new "times of troubles" (smutnoye vremya, the anarchy of the early 17th century) resemble, in the extreme, Somalia in the 1990s, in which militias and gangs would rule, their recruitment pool fed by the return of bitter conscripts, many of whom were former prisoners?
Russia's breakup?​The Somalian scenario would also be that of the breakup of the Russian nation-empire. If the "vertical of power" built by Putin were destroyed, how could one imagine the maintenance of a state thirty times larger and ten times more populated?
As has been pointed out, the Russian empire, given the distances between the core and the periphery, actually resembles its European counterparts of the past. Could Russia survive the collapse of the national myth fostered by Moscow, that of a tutelary nation superior to others and destined to control its neighbors?

In minority republics, revolt is already growing. One has to recognize that the Buryats, Tuvans and other Dagestanis, who make up a disproportionate share of the Russian army (as drafting represents social ascension in these poor regions) have, as in any empire, paid more blood money than ethnic Russians. And while Mr. Putin - to his credit - has never despised the country's Muslims, favoring a "national" rather than "ethnic" conception of his country, what place would Islamist movements take in a Russia where anarchy reigned? But the disintegration could also begin in distant and rich regions, like Slovenia for Yugoslavia...
"_Great empires do not go gracefully into oblivion_" warned the US ambassador to Moscow in early 1991. In the United States and in Europe, the same debate as 30 years ago would reappear: should one prefer the dissolution of the country and its weakening (as did US Vice President Dick Cheney), or its permanence in view of its nuclear status (that of US Secretary of State James Baker)?
Friedrich Reck-Malleczewen wrote about Germany in June 1941 stating: "_never has a people staggered towards catastrophe in such a state of stupefaction and impotence_". For Françoise Thom, whose analyses have often been judged too pessimistic but to whom history seems to be right today, this sentence applies perfectly to contemporary Russia.
There is little reason to rejoice. But if the above analysis is correct, it means that Europe and Russia are likely to be separated for a long time (provided that the former can reduce its dependence on Russian gas to a minimum). This may be the end of a three-century historical cycle, which began with the victory over Sweden at the Battle of Poltava (1709). As Ukraine enters Europe, Russia leaves it.


_Copyright: Mikhail Metzel / SPUTNIK / AFP_

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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611162803699867648
> 
> 
> Napoleon and Hitler tried that and died. Anglos don't dare to invade Russia.




Putin's original plans seems to have been to overthrow the current government, install a puppet president, and control the entire country. He's failed at that and at a horrific cost in lives and material. And instead of breaking apart the NATO alliance it is now invigorated. All European countries are strengthening their militaries, and finally his army has been shown to be seriously flawed. Too much more of this 'winning' and Russia will be undone.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Putin's original plans seems to have been to overthrow the current government, install a puppet president, and control the entire country. He's failed at that and at a horrific cost in lives and material. And instead of breaking apart the NATO alliance it is now invigorated. All European countries are strengthening their militaries, and finally his army has been shown to be seriously flawed. Too much more of this 'winning' and Russia will be undone.



Too early to make a conclusion. This war lasts decades. The second year should be more interesting than the first year.

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## Bleek

khansaheeb said:


> In the past the countries just surrendered to Soviet invasions but it seems Ukrainians don't like being invaded and are putting up a stiff resistance with NATO support.


Uncle Sam's propaganda is undefeatable, pair that with military aid, you have a powerful combination.

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## khansaheeb

Bleek said:


> Uncle Sam's propaganda is undefeatable, pair that with military aid, you have a powerful combination.


Must say the Ukrainians surprised everyone, they put up a brave fight , any other country would have surrendered long time ago.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> Must say the Ukrainians surprised everyone, they put up a brave fight , any other country would have surrendered long time ago.



Ukraine has no science. When was the last time you ever heard of a Ukrainian scientist? A country with no science is pitiful. A country with no science only has war, nothing else. Roman empire had no science. Roman empire only had war. Life is not all about war. There are other things in life besides war.

Russia has science. Russians have other things in life besides war. Ukrainians don't have anything in life other than war.






List of Russian scientists - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Viet

Stranagor said:


> I think he uses a creative concept, "new territorial realities." Very much like Hitler's concept of labensraum. Or, the concept of "blue territory." First forcefully changing the status quo, and then, under status quo ante, claiming a new set of reality. Didn't work for Hitler or Hirohito; won't work for Putin, either.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it was Russia which initially wanted to destroy Ukrainian nationhood, yet unable to turn it into a failed state. On fact, it is Russia that shows the signs of a failed state. What a failure.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia may face a warring states period under unruly warlords. And that's with a huge arsenal of nuclear weapons.
> 
> With his newfound very aggressive rhetoric, Medvedev could be trimming himself for such an opportunity.


Putin uses the term “historic Russia”, then the term “battlefield reality”. That’s is something he can even claim Alaska. He forgets Russia was just the region of Moscow, maybe he can reduce Russia to that size.

Putin is just a thief.

The most heavy fightings are around Bakhmut with the assaults led by Wagner hooligans. Now it turns out they are driven by greed. Bakhmut has natural resources especially salt and plaster.

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## Stranagor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611074141213392897
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611073833431097355
> 
> Official announcement of Bradley and Marder IFVs. Also Germany will be providing an additional Patriot battery
> 
> New US weapons package for Ukraine will be worth $2.85B. Largest package to date



Looks like, as Putin tries to create new realities on the ground, and ask Ukrainians to accept it, Ukraine and allies are creating new realities of weapons delivery, one step at a time. Eventually, Putin may be left with the option of jumping off the hot water into the 🔥, a figurative caput mortuum.

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## aviator_fan

thetutle said:


> With the HIMARS threat neutralised, Russia should station more soldiers in forward operating bases closer to the front line.
> 
> 
> The Gaulle, a man loved my muslims all over the world. NOT.


Specially in Algeria. Intereting how the Russian supporters think that fringe personalities speak for the overall sentiment and miss the point that in a democracy its natural to have discourse. Including people supporting the enemy. These same people spoke about anti-vax theories but ultimately the world got back to normal thanks to the same vaccines and science while Putin was having meetings on tables 100ft long and away from the rest of his cabinet



Viet said:


> Nun ist die Katze aus dem Sack.
> 
> Putin exposes himself as hooligan. He says he only agrees to peace talks if Ukraine accepts all demands including ceding territories to Russia.
> 
> Ukraine only has the choice, either fight to the death or surrender. Liberty or Russia gulags.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-News: Putin offen für Dialog – falls Kiew »territoriale Realitäten« akzeptiert
> 
> 
> Der Kremlchef gibt sich bereit für Gespräche, seine Bedingungen dürften unannehmbar sein. Und: Selenskyj-Berater Podoljak nennt die von Patriarch Kirill vorgeschlagene Weihnachts-Waffenruhe »eine zynische Falle«. Die News.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de


Nice peace offer , reciprocated with Bradley and Leopard armor gifts. I don't think Putin's handlers understand how peace offers work. If this is the peace that Ukraine wanted, they would have chosen this path 4 months ago with the genius brains in Moscow's offer.


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## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Too early to make a conclusion. This war lasts decades. The second year should be more interesting than the first year.



Why do Russ trolls claim this to be propaganda when the preponderance of the evidence suggests that Russia is suffering high casualties given what we know: 1. Desperate conscription including prisoners, 2. Retreating from temporary gains 3. Poorly trained and equipped soldiers

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## Stranagor

925boy said:


> Bradley and these tanks in Ukrainian hands will give Russia actual combat experience against what NATO might send to fight Russia down the line.



Dark clouds have silver lining, eh. It seems getting killed mindlessly and losing occupied territory is a great form of learning. 

Looked inversely, by employing military platforms in Ukraine, NATO, too, can learn about Russian tactics and capabilities. By the time Russia adapts to old NATO platforms, NATO brings out new ones.



925boy said:


> These equipments wont give Ukraine a win though, pretty confident in that. equipment doesnt win wars, determination and tenacity does.



You sound very confident hitting the keyboard. 

See how much tenacity Putin has in getting badly trained and supplied troops to be killed in mindless occupation attempt.

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> how or what will guide them. Don’t follow or understand?


looks like they are going to be a launch and forget semi-radar guidance mode. Shoot it and let the missile home into radar signal, or they may also use datalink to guide them like the Ukrainian did with HARM.

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## BHAN85

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine has no science. When was the last time you ever heard of a Ukrainian scientist? A country with no science is pitiful. A country with no science only has war, nothing else. Roman empire had no science. Roman empire only had war. Life is not all about war. There are other things in life besides war.
> 
> Russia has science. Russians have other things in life besides war. Ukrainians don't have anything in life other than war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of Russian scientists - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


A lot of USSR tech developments were made by Ukrainian people.






Antonov - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Ukrainian and Russian people are the same thing with different names.



khansaheeb said:


> Must say the Ukrainians surprised everyone, they put up a brave fight , any other country would have surrendered long time ago.


They are brave, but they have no choice.

War is not democratic, you can't vote no, and you can't go out if you dont like.

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## Viet

'Free the Leopards!' Campaign aims to 'embarrass' Germany into sending tanks to Ukraine​
By *David Mac Dougall* • 05/01/2023 - 16:44





FILE: A Leopard battle tank of the Armoured Brigade is seen during the Army mechanised exercise Arrow 22 exercise, Niinisalo garrison, Western Finland, May 2022 - Copyright Heikki Saukkomaa/Lehtikuva via AP

A campaign launched by two Finnish politicians aims to 'embarrass' Germany into providing Leopard tanks for Ukraine.









Campaign aims to 'embarrass' Germany into sending tanks to Ukraine


Two Finnish politicians estimate 90-100 Leopard 2 main battle tanks could make a significant impact on the momentum of the war for Ukraine.




www.euronews.com

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Some people in this forum think that 50 Bradley IFVs plus a dozen apcs from France and Germany will change the course of this war. A few bombing runs from Ka-52s and Lancet drones will take care of these IFVs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611138648099131394

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## Deino

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Its almost 1 year now and the whole of NATO+ are still unable to defeat and balkanize Russia.
> 
> What a shame




Again ... NATO is not even involved yet, so in fact NATO support alone ti Ukraine managed to reduce the so much over-hyped Russian Army's strength without being involved directly.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Vergennes said:


> 35 out of 20 Himars have been destroyed (+ M270 MLRS) but Ruzzians are getting himarsed on a daily basis.
> 
> It seems a base of chechen tiktok batallion got himarsed
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610936955516190721
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610937158214238208



What a way to go those poor, poor supreme underwear doesn't deserve those kinds of fate,

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## Viet

Putin’s decree of partial mobilization was hidden but now is leaked.

One million men will called in.

So we can expect the next waves of new mobi in spring and summer.

He needs them for the incoming spring and summer offensives against Ukraine.

One million young naive untrained Russians will run against Ukraine artillery like suicide lemmings in Bakhmut.

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## Georg

Viet said:


> Putin’s decree of partial mobilization was hidden but now is published:
> 
> One million men will called in.
> 
> So we can expect the next waves of new mobi in spring and summer.
> 
> He needs them for the incoming spring and summer offensives against Ukraine.
> 
> One million Russians will run against Ukraine artillery like suicide lemmings in Bakhmut.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 909730


all went as planed in the three day campaign LOL

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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That shows only 1 mujahid who died fighting the forces of the Antichrist. (AUN)



That mujahid was fighting the antichrist in Chechnya just 15 years ago. 

Either mujahid is changed, or the antichrist.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin’s decree of partial mobilization was hidden but now is leaked.
> 
> One million men will called in.
> 
> So we can expect the next waves of new mobi in spring and summer.
> 
> He needs them for the incoming spring and summer offensives against Ukraine.
> 
> One million young naive untrained Russians will run against Ukraine artillery like suicide lemmings in Bakhmut.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 909730


What are they going to equip the 1 million conscript with??

I mean, they are already dipping into 1950s tank and original AKs, any more equipment needed they would really need to break out the T-34s and mosin nagant.......

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## Reashot Xigwin

Wolfhunter said:


> That scumbag WarGonzo is still alive?


Hoperfully not for long



F-22Raptor said:


> Your aware that Bradley’s tore apart Soviet armor in Desert Storm right?


A 20mil cannon from a south African Rattel ripped apart soviet armor. It's not really that hard to destroy them.

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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Another proof that the West is getting nervous and doing everything they can to slow down the guaranteed Russian military victory over the cannon fodder aka Ukrainians.



That's a weird logic. 

Russia is the aggressor here.

The West has greater confidence, hence qualitative and quantitative increase in helping Ukrainian resistance and victory.

Cannon fodder are those forcefully recruited by Putin and shoved into the front lines.

Putin is getting nervous, hence he plans another round of forced mobilization. 

What an end to a 3-day campaign.



Get Ya Wig Split said:


> U.S. weapons package for Ukraine includes 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles -officials​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON, Jan 5 (Reuters) - A new U.S. weapons package for Ukraine will include about 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, two U.S. officials said on Thursday, with one of the officials saying the package will be worth roughly $2.8 billion.
> 
> On Wednesday President Joe Biden said that sending Bradley Fighting Vehicles, a U.S. Army staple, to Ukraine was being considered to help fight Russia's invasion.
> 
> The latest security package for Ukraine is expected to be unveiled on Friday, the officials said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. weapons package for Ukraine includes 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles -officials
> 
> 
> A new U.S. weapons package for Ukraine will include about 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, two U.S. officials said on Thursday, with one of the officials saying the package will be worth roughly $2.8 billion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But but but "NATO is running out of missiles and ammunition" LOL



Perhaps Ukraine is preparing for the next Russian human wave. It is Western weapons production versus Russian human production. 

See which one is to be depleted first.

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## thetutle

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Ukraine has no science. When was the last time you ever heard of a Ukrainian scientist? A country with no science is pitiful. A country with no science only has war, nothing else. Roman empire had no science. Roman empire only had war. Life is not all about war. There are other things in life besides war.
> 
> Russia has science. Russians have other things in life besides war. Ukrainians don't have anything in life other than war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of Russian scientists - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Ukraine makes a lot of stuff china only learned to make recently. 



Viet said:


> Putin’s decree of partial mobilization was hidden but now is leaked.
> 
> One million men will called in.
> 
> So we can expect the next waves of new mobi in spring and summer.
> 
> He needs them for the incoming spring and summer offensives against Ukraine.
> 
> One million young naive untrained Russians will run against Ukraine artillery like suicide lemmings in Bakhmut.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 909730


one million. wow, wets will keep the arms coming in. thats for sure, 


jhungary said:


> I mean, they are already dipping into 1950s tank and original AKs, any more equipment needed they would really need to break out the T-34s and mosin nagant.......


they will find those mosins. There is no need for all the soldiers to have AK's. 99% of the deaths in Ukraine are due to projectiles larger than 7.62.

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## Reashot Xigwin

It's official. Marder is going to Ukraine & the Ukrainian will also be getting Patriots

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611091138114646016

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## Vergennes

Reashot Xigwin said:


> It's official. Marder is going to Ukraine & the Ukrainian will also be getting Patriots
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611091138114646016



Slowly but surely we are getting there. Next step will be atacms and fighter jets...

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> What are they going to equip the 1 million conscript with??
> 
> I mean, they are already dipping into 1950s tank and original AKs, any more equipment needed they would really need to break out the T-34s and mosin nagant.......


Will be interesting to observe I don’t know.
the russians now have North Korea’s doctrine “military first’, every money will flow to the military. People go hungry and starve to death? No problem. Ammo factories run double shifts. I think they will extend further to nights and weekend shifts. Then they hope more weapons delivery from Belarus, Iran, North Korea and I don’t know, maybe from Cuba.

However the big joker is China.

Putin has invited communist chief Xi jinping to a state visit in spring. What a coincidence.


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## Stranagor

Viet said:


> Will be interesting to observe I don’t know.
> the russians now have North Korea’s doctrine “military first’, every money will flow to the military. Ammo factories run double shifts. I think they will extend further to nights and weekend shifts. Then they hope weapons deliver from Iran, North Korea and I don’t know maybe from Cuba.



Even the Russian arts and entertainment seem to be militarized. Slightest opposition is criminalized or pressured into silence. Those able to run away already did so. 

That's a terrible cost socially. 

The problem with a strong man ruling for too long is that they lose the ability to admit mistakes and change course.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Vergennes said:


> Slowly but surely we are getting there. Next step will be atacms and fighter jets...


Plus ABRAMS and MQ 9 drones…


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## Viet

Stranagor said:


> Even the Russian arts and entertainment seem to be militarized. Slightest opposition is criminalized or pressured into silence. Those able to run away already did so.
> 
> That's a terrible cost socially.
> 
> The problem with a strong man ruling for too long is that they lose the ability to admit mistakes and change course.


That’s what you get when you put the country into the hand of a psycho. There is hope the man will lead them into a paradise.

Putin is a poker player that goes all-in.


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## hadi1990

Vergennes said:


> Slowly but surely we are getting there. Next step will be atacms and fighter jets..


cheer up we are getting only closer to ww3 and nukes

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## Georg

hadi1990 said:


> cheer up we are getting only closer to ww3 and nukes



we dont see ww3 and of course no nukes... not even tactical... Putin knows if he use tactical nukes in Ukraine Nato would whipp out the existance of the Black Sea fleet in one day and would most likely flatten every russian military instalation in occupied Ukraine and there is abslutly nothing the Russian could do to stop this from happen

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## Vergennes

A russian position was captured in the Luhansk oblast near Kreminna.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611336696838209536

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## reflecthofgeismar

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Stop derailing and bringing in an irrelevant argument. Migrants from Africa and Middle East have nothing to do with this topic. The topic is about the war in Ukraine between Russia and the West.
> 
> Btw, it is obvious you're in that lifestyle that was banned in Hungary.



I'm not gae, bi, trans or whatever is not the norm.
I'm not a Jew/Zionist either.


925boy said:


> did Iranian EFPs rip through Bradleys in Iraq? just curious, since you make it seem invincible. i really hope they can be maintained on the front line too, because if they're stuck, they become a sitting duck for easy targeting.
> 
> More weapons wont help Ukraine's lack of manpower enough- that seems to be showing now.



Well, Bradley was good in the 1980-2000s.
Solid vehicle.
Operated by capable crews, good support etc.
Arabs just can't wage modern wars (conventional), we saw Israel kicking their butts, even Arabs had mostly quality wise/on paper - better equipment, were many more soldiers and had nearly every advantage on their side.

Tbh, Bradley is, even in it's M2A3 nothing special, still better than BMP-2.

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## Georg

reflecthofgeismar said:


> I'm not gae, bi, trans or whatever is not the norm.
> I'm not a Jew/Zionist either.
> 
> 
> Well, Bradley was good in the 1980-2000s.
> Solid vehicle.
> Operated by capable crews, good support etc.
> Arabs just can't wage modern wars (conventional), we saw Israel kicking their butts, even Arabs had mostly quality wise/on paper - better equipment, were many more soldiers and had nearly every advantage on their side.
> 
> Tbh, Bradley is, even in it's M2A3 nothing special, still better than BMP-2.



Every vehicle with thermal nigth figthing capability is a win for Ukraine

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The cool thing about T-90M is it has laser guided missiles range 5 km that can knock out enemy tanks from stand off distance.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611294382929444864

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## Broccoli

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Too early to make a conclusion. This war lasts decades. The second year should be more interesting than the first year.



Russia doesnt have economy or material to continue this war for decades as they are now shipping more T-62's towards front and are burning trought T-90S tanks what are made for export. Some country out there isn't getting tanks they ordered. 

West is only now beginning to ramp up production of ammunation, etc. Russian otherhand has same size economy as Italy (before EU stopped buying their oil) while US economy alone is over 20 trillion.

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## mike2000 is back

925boy said:


> did Iranian EFPs rip through Bradleys in Iraq? just curious, since you make it seem invincible. i really hope they can be maintained on the front line too, because if they're stuck, they become a sitting duck for easy targeting.
> 
> More weapons wont help Ukraine's lack of manpower enough- that seems to be showing now.


Manpower can be replaced and is just a part of the much bigger picture, especially when you are fighting against your very existence for your country's sovereignty and survival and right to nationhood. Just like Saddam invasion of Iran led to the the death and casualties of millions of Iranian death and wounded. Did it mean Iran stopped fighting Just because of that ? Lol Your nation survived and moved on later. Life continued after Iraq pulled out . Same with Vietnam, millions of Vietnamese died fighting the US, didn't Vietnam survive(due to their tenacity but granted it was also because of the massive support from soviet union and China)? 
Seems due to your pro Russian inclinations you forget that Ukraine is merely defending itself in its own territory, so of course they have mire moral, reason for fighting, and determination to fight for the long run for their country. Except Russia is ready to fight abd stay in Ukraine forever. They are bound to pull out or ask for stop to the war at one point, as its not in their country. 

So your point about Ukraine giving up on its territorial intergrity and nationhood Just because of casualties is quite wrong and wont happen. I understand its because your are biased towards Russia (no crime in that though). This can be seen in the fact that you seel to believe Western nations supplying arms abd equipment to Ukraine will not help Ukraines war effort and will have little to no impact against Russia"s war in the country. This alone says alot about your bias to be honest.

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## Hack-Hook

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Westeners evolved in thousands of years of war. Western men is much bigger and stronger than Western women. Hate is bad. Hate causes cancer. Westerners get cancer because of hate. We Chinese are peaceful. We Chinese evolved in thousands of years of peace. There is no size difference between Chinese men and Chinese women. Chinese people are healthy because Chinese people are peaceful.


I wonder if you can open a chinese history book or story book or anything and it was not filled with wars

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> This kind of accuracy is not possible unless someone is lazing the target on ground, it must have been Covert Ops involved.
> 
> Both the Ukrainian and the Russian said 6 missile salvo was fired, which mean this is most likely a strike package, or Tier 1 target. The Ukrainian really wanted that build to go, and that is for a reason.


if that was only 13km over the border, then a drone could do it easily , now I don't knew if Ukraine is in possession of a drone capable of such thing , but that is possibility and less dangerous than sending a commando team to do the laser painting for you .


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## 925boy

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Its almost 1 year now and the whole of NATO+ are still unable to defeat and balkanize Russia.
> 
> What a shame


fully agree....and you know whats worse? NATO depleted its own ammunition reserves to help Ukraine...while leaving it vulnerable to China if CHina moves on Taiwan- NATO is in a lose-lose- cant beat Russia in Ukraine, and that has made it ill equipped to fight China today.

People used to follow America alot more when it acted smart, not these days.

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## aviator_fan

Putin may have been Greta Thunberg's best friend by accelerating the process off getting off fossil fuels for electricity. Germany just doubled its target for 2030. He may ruin Russia and Eastern Europe, but save the planet.

For all the criticism, Putin's unintentional actions of using the energy leverage did not take into account the unintended consequence that the economics of renewable energy will look much better when cheap energy supplies are not available.

The Greta joke aside: Kremlin had all the right elements going for itself over the last decade with its softer war using cyber and intel ops on social. Much more active Right movements in many countries, NATO softening up (starting with US criticizing it), and public support for weapons programs and manufacturers at an all time low (in Germany banks were being pressured by groups to treat arms manufacturers in a way that they would not even be able to do with business with as if they were some illegal drug cartel).

That and the image of Russian weapons and power prevailed. Not sure why this suicidal approach .










Putin has gambled away gas leverage, says German vice-chancellor


Robert Habeck says ‘half of our eggs were in the basket of Putin’ but Germany is now recovering capacity




www.theguardian.com






*Putin has gambled away gas leverage, says German vice-chancellor *

Vladimir Putin has gambled away his gas leverage over Europe, Germany’s vice-chancellor has claimed as he sounded a note of cautious optimism over his country’s energy supplies during a visit to Norway. 
Russia’s war in Ukraine had caught Berlin at a vulnerable moment since it was over-reliant on natural gas deliveries through the Nord Stream 1 pipeline and had failed to build up infrastructure for alternative supply channels, said Robert Habeck, the German deputy head of government and economic minister.

“The German problem, or the central European problem, was that half of our eggs were in the basket of Putin,” the Green politician said at a joint press conference with the Norwegian prime minister, Jonas Gahr Støre, in Oslo. “And he destroyed them.”

At the start of 2023, however, Germany was “one-third done” being able to replace ceased Russian deliveries of gas, oil and coal through other channels, such as speedily built liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminals and an increase of imports from Norway, now Europe’s largest supplier of gas.

Norway’s energy minister, Terje Aasland, announced on Thursday that Oslo would again be able to deliver 122bn cubic metres of natural gas to Europe this year, up 8% from deliveries in 2021.

While emphasising that Germany’s energy situation remained “very very tight and complicated”, Habeck sounded a note of optimism. “Right now, I can say the storages in Germany are full, around 90%, we will withstand this winter, and the prices are going down.”

With central Europe enjoying a relatively mild winter so far, he said, there was a “fair chance” its storage tanks would not be completely empty at the end of the cold season.

Amid shortages of gas and fears of power outages, European neighbours have voiced incredulity with Germany sticking to its plan to phase out nuclear power – a decision made under the conservative chancellor Angela Merkel but massively pushed for by Habeck’s Greens.

The minister for economic affairs and climate action again dismissed talk of further U-turns on Germany’s nuclear exit plans. *His government’s focus was to scale up renewable electricity from about 46% to 80% by 2030, he said, adding: “I would advise everyone to focus on one plan and not disrupt everything again.”
*
Since gas power plants formerly played a crucial role balancing out fluctuating power production from renewables, Germany will probably have to upgrade its grid and open up new storage options to comply with Habeck’s plan.

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## LeGenD

The Myth of America's Ukraine Fatigue​








The Myth of America's Ukraine Fatigue


Perceptions that the United States has “Ukraine fatigue” may be more myth than reality. It could be years before any declines in the American public's support for Ukraine actually result in a change of policy.




www.rand.org

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## Vergennes

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Its almost 1 year now and the whole of NATO+ are still unable to defeat and balkanize Russia.
> 
> What a shame



I'll do it for you ;

It's been almost 1 year and Russia still hasn't been able to defeat Ukraine,didn't achieve air dominance,the moskva is under the sea,airbases are being attacked far inside Russia,lost half of the territory captured since february, worse despite sending in its best troops and recently 300.000 mobilized in Ukraine, still hasn't fully captured the donbass,only secured few hunred meters since the summer. 

The US as of now spent something like 5% of its yearly defence budget to destroy something like half of the Russian army and the "big toys" haven't even been delivered to Ukraine.

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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> fully agree....and you know whats worse? NATO depleted its own ammunition reserves to help Ukraine...while leaving it vulnerable to China if CHina moves on Taiwan-


Yes cause of al those carrier strike groups Nato has been donated to Ukraine? 🤣. 

If anything, china is dissuaded due to the harsh reaction against russia. Which shows in how china stayed well clear of aiding the russians in anything else but hollow words and buying gas at huge discount. 


925boy said:


> NATO is in a lose-lose- cant beat Russia in Ukraine, and that has made it ill equipped to fight China today.
> 
> People used to follow America alot more when it acted smart, not these days.


Nato is using single digit defense budget and mostly old stock/hand me downs to help ukraine grind down russia. 
8600 heavy material lost and counting. Losses of more then 50% of their active material. The russian bear is being cut down to teddybear size.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> if that was only 13km over the border, then a drone could do it easily , now I don't knew if Ukraine is in possession of a drone capable of such thing , but that is possibility and less dangerous than sending a commando team to do the laser painting for you .


You can't interface with drone easily, also sending drone will give away your target before you strike. Ukraine don't operate stealth drone.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You can't interface with drone easily, also sending drone will give away your target before you strike. Ukraine don't operate stealth drone.


you are probably right but a modern drone can paint a target from at least 20km away


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> you are probably right but a modern drone can paint a target from at least 20km away


You can't get that accurate with passive painting. As I said in my previous post, that CEP is less than 5 meters, it hit that building and that building alone, that is active guidance, which mean most likely it's beam riding, or something more advance. and beam riding don't do 20km, or 13 in this matter.

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## 925boy

khansaheeb said:


> Must say the Ukrainians surprised everyone, they put up a brave fight , any other country would have surrendered long time ago.


thats false- they could only put up a brave fight BECAUSE of NATO help- iwthout NATo's help, oh man, Ukraine would've been destroyed a while ago.



Deino said:


> Again ... NATO is not even involved yet,


lie!
1. 1200 active Polish soldiers were killed in UKraine near the frontline- how is this not direct involvement?
2. Britain has admitted to having xx # of soldiers IN Ukraine "in a sensitive environment" - thats an admission of involvement- NATO IS INVOLVED- its too late to revise the truth- NATO would only say its not involved because it wants to be able to run away from the mess it created when it fails. it wont be able to.
3. NATO is involved even by providing sensitive and direct intelligence and weapons (getaway driver for robbers is also a criminal even if he didnt rob right? )to Ukrainian forces- all these lies white countries tell themselves now dont work- NATO will get dismembered in Ukraine- it wont even have any money willpower or energy to fight Iran or China after this- fact!


Deino said:


> so in fact NATO support alone ti Ukraine managed to reduce the so much over-hyped Russian Army's strength without being involved directly.


remain in denial- denial doesnt change the truth.

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## Vergennes

925boy said:


> thats false- they could only put up a brave fight BECAUSE of NATO help- iwthout NATo's help, oh man, Ukraine would've been destroyed a while ago.



NATO's help wouldn't change the fact Russia lost its status as a major military power after the whole world saw how incompetent, corrupt and rotten its armed forces are where the culture of lying and stealing on every levels + nepotism are kings.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> fully agree....and you know whats worse? NATO depleted its own ammunition reserves to help Ukraine...while leaving it vulnerable to China if CHina moves on Taiwan- NATO is in a lose-lose- cant beat Russia in Ukraine, and that has made it ill equipped to fight China today.
> 
> People used to follow America alot more when it acted smart, not these days.


Some truth to this in terms of political will and all (for another west vs. east war). But not in terms of ammunition reserves: A China move against Taiwan is not a infantry/ground war obviously. And once make it across to Taiwan, it will in no way be as protracted as this action.

It will be primarily and air / sea battle of which ZERO ammunition has been used. HIMARS and Stingers are not going to come into play , which has been whats been used. 

All aviation assets, naval ammuniton and A2G PGMs are very very much in tact!!!

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## Vergennes

925boy said:


> thats false- they could only put up a brave fight BECAUSE of NATO help- iwthout NATo's help, oh man, Ukraine would've been destroyed a while ago.
> 
> 
> lie!
> 1. 1200 active Polish soldiers were killed in UKraine near the frontline- how is this not direct involvement?



LMAO @bobo6661


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611368226943811590

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611402791322271744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611392058887143424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611401420468527105


Vergennes said:


> NATO's help wouldn't change the fact Russia lost its status as a major military power after the whole world saw how incompetent, corrupt and rotten its armed forces are where the culture of lying and stealing on every levels + nepotism are kings.



Russians are peaceful people. Russia has never been a military power, and never will be one.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611103607902044160

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## Georg

925boy said:


> thats false- they could only put up a brave fight BECAUSE of NATO help- iwthout NATo's help, oh man, Ukraine would've been destroyed a while ago.
> 
> 
> lie!
> 1. 1200 active Polish soldiers were killed in UKraine near the frontline- how is this not direct involvement?
> 2. Britain has admitted to having xx # of soldiers IN Ukraine "in a sensitive environment" - thats an admission of involvement- NATO IS INVOLVED- its too late to revise the truth- NATO would only say its not involved because it wants to be able to run away from the mess it created when it fails. it wont be able to.
> 3. NATO is involved even by providing sensitive and direct intelligence and weapons (getaway driver for robbers is also a criminal even if he didnt rob right? )to Ukrainian forces- all these lies white countries tell themselves now dont work- NATO will get dismembered in Ukraine- it wont even have any money willpower or energy to fight Iran or China after this- fact!
> 
> remain in denial- denial doesnt change the truth.


what kind of drugs u smoke to get lost in your universe? Wanna try them too

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611354651751862274

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## 925boy

mike2000 is back said:


> Manpower can be replaced and is just a part of the much bigger picture,


hoooow?


mike2000 is back said:


> especially when you are fighting against your very existence for your country's sovereignty and survival and right to nationhood


understood, so is Russia- NATO encroachment was a threat too to Russia's life.


mike2000 is back said:


> . Just like Saddam invasion of Iran led to the the death and casualties of millions of Iranian death and wounded.


false equivalence- dont bring this up as a distraction.


mike2000 is back said:


> Did it mean Iran stopped fighting Just because of that ?


why you so obsessed with the Iraq-Iran war? go on another thread and rant about it. i've noticed you bring this up almost every other post about war stuff.


mike2000 is back said:


> Lol Your nation survived and moved on later.


whose nation? stop distracting please.


mike2000 is back said:


> Life continued after Iraq pulled out .


rant


mike2000 is back said:


> Same with Vietnam,


distraction point.


mike2000 is back said:


> millions of Vietnamese died fighting the US, didn't Vietnam survive(due to their tenacity but granted it


false equivalence again- stop comparing wars when each one has its own uniqueness.


mike2000 is back said:


> was also because of the massive support from soviet union and China)?
> Seems due to your pro Russian inclinations you forget that Ukraine is merely defending itself in its own territory,


ha ha ....sneaky Britain- always lying on public, and doing sneaky sht in private- Russia is also defeinding itsself- If NATO wasnt encroachign on Russia's border, Russia wouldn't have invaded, period!


mike2000 is back said:


> so of course they have mire moral, reason for fighting,


ha ha ..RUssia does too- enjoy the bodies in bakhmut trenches..Ukraine is gonna break this year, its needed for NATO to come to its senses though- you got sucked out by Backwards Taliban, now Russia will stretch you finally...CHina and Iran are still on standby too for action, so please get really ready and stock up again.


mike2000 is back said:


> and determination to fight for the long run for their country.


so is Russia....UKraine's loss of territory, manpower and equipment has accelerated- Ukraine is gonna buckle this year....


mike2000 is back said:


> Except Russia is ready to fight abd stay in Ukraine forever.


sure,happy you know this.


mike2000 is back said:


> They are bound to pull out or ask for stop to the war at one point, as its not in their country.


ha ha ....you're confusing Britain and NATO pulling out of IRaq and Afghanistan because your azz got beat up to minced meat- Russia runs its war its way- its just recovering territories, peoples and lands that Ukraine has no need for and abuses.


mike2000 is back said:


> So your point about Ukraine giving up on its territorial intergrity and nationhood Just because of casualties is quite wrong and wont happen.


just cuz you say so, doesnt mean its so- show me stats- Ukrainian troops keep dying in considerable numbers daiilly....its unsustainable, but western propaganda has probably plugged your brain up, so why would you know better?


mike2000 is back said:


> I understand its because your are biased towards Russia (no crime in that though).


its a bias in your eyes, just like PDF thought i had a bias for Iran- but at the end of the day- i am quite objective, the truth is just harsh for small UK to accept.


mike2000 is back said:


> This can be seen in the fact that you seel to believe Western nations supplying arms abd equipment to Ukraine will not help Ukraines war effort


they didnt help ISrael recetly
they didnt help Saudis win
Even Cambodia's president said it after asking his army to destroy US weapons- if you receive US weapons, you lose the war- Ukraine is next...
NATO is also exhausted now....pray that Iran nor China make a move now.


mike2000 is back said:


> and will have little to no impact against Russia"s war in the country.


who said this?


mike2000 is back said:


> This alone says alot about your bias to be honest.


lmao...face the war...us Pro Russia people are getting excited, Ukraine is about to get beaten the fuk up, and it wont collect those lands it doesnt need, because if it did, why abuse the people there with shelling and war crimes behavior? oh yea..i know what you brits did in Africa and Nigeria...colonialism is in your genetics..go pay reparations first.


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## 925boy

Georg said:


> what kind of drugs u smoke to get lost in your universe? Wanna try them too


if that's your way of saying my points be crazy good, then thanks, i appreciate it.


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## Georg

925boy said:


> if that's your way of saying my points be crazy good, then thanks, i appreciate it.


I love the smell of sarcasm in the evening... the vodka vibe is strong in this youngling Putin troll

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611423444238831616
Massive package, looks like M109s from US stock too. More details later

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## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> The cool thing about T-90M is it has laser guided missiles range 5 km that can knock out enemy tanks from stand off distance.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611294382929444864


Such western infantry tanks as Bratley and Marder have anti tank missiles. They can knock out T90s.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Deino said:


> Again ... NATO is not even involved yet, so in fact NATO support alone ti Ukraine managed to reduce the so much over-hyped Russian Army's strength without being involved directly.



Yeah?

NATO is Supplying Weapons for free

NATO is sharing Intelligence

NATO has commanders and planners on the ground

NATO has "Volunteering" soldiers on the ground

but NATO is not involved?

What NATO is doing is to avoid any embarssment of being defeated single handely by Russia.

Any loss will be fully attributed to Ukraine and any success will be fully credited to NATO.

One has to be totally blind, dumb and devoid of any common sense not to understand such basic stuff.


NATO should stop acting as wussies and make it official and balkanize Russia.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Vergennes said:


> I'll do it for you ;
> 
> It's been almost 1 year and Russia still hasn't been able to defeat Ukraine,didn't achieve air dominance,the moskva is under the sea,airbases are being attacked far inside Russia,lost half of the territory captured since february, worse despite sending in its best troops and recently 300.000 mobilized in Ukraine, still hasn't fully captured the donbass,only secured few hunred meters since the summer.
> 
> The US as of now spent something like 5% of its yearly defence budget to destroy something like half of the Russian army and the "big toys" haven't even been delivered to Ukraine.



USSR/Russia was realistic and their strategy was never to go on the offensive against the NATO.

This was the reason why USSR/Russia never built any major Surface fleet.

USSR/Russia strategy was always to play defensive against NATO using Submarines, Missles and Air Defence systems and going Nuclear if all fails.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> However the big joker is China.


China can't supply weapons that will allow russia to expand territorially. NATO would dramatically increase weapons supplies and take action against china elsewhere. 


LeGenD said:


> The Myth of America's Ukraine Fatigue​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of America's Ukraine Fatigue
> 
> 
> Perceptions that the United States has “Ukraine fatigue” may be more myth than reality. It could be years before any declines in the American public's support for Ukraine actually result in a change of policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rand.org


Even if America stops weapons supplies. Europe will continue. France Germany and England alone have an industrial capacity that could never be matched by russia. 


ZeGerman said:


> If anything, china is dissuaded due to the harsh reaction against russia. Which shows in how china stayed well clear of aiding the russians in anything else but hollow words and buying gas at huge discount.


China now knows haw badly it would be defeated in Taiwan. They have delayed their invasion plans by 10 years at least.

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## F-22Raptor

Wow huge package of weapons!

50 Bradley’s with 500 TOWS and 250K rounds of 25mm

18 M109 self propelled howitzers 

36 M119 towed howitzers 

Almost 300 MRAPS, M113s, and Humvees total

RIM-7 Sea Sparrows for air defense 

4,000 laser guided Zuni rockets 

2,000 anti armor weapons

Damn!

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 909927
> 
> 
> Wow huge package of weapons!
> 
> 50 Bradley’s with 500 TOWS and 250K rounds of 25mm
> 
> 18 M109 self propelled howitzers
> 
> 36 M119 towed howitzers
> 
> Almost 300 MRAPS, M113s, and Humvees total
> 
> RIM-7 Sea Sparrows for air defense
> 
> 4,000 laser guided Zuni rockets
> 
> 2,000 anti armor weapons
> 
> Damn!



"The US is running out of weapons!!!!"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611420521828073473

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611401638207438853

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611450418562744320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611450420068491301

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611450699627241479
The US is clearly preparing Ukraine for a major offensive in spring.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611450418562744320
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611450420068491301
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611450699627241479
> The US is clearly preparing Ukraine for a major offensive in spring.



So is Russia. More than 100 new build T-90M, more than 100 new build Msta-SM2. It's going to be an army to be reckoned with.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Viet said:


> Such western infantry tanks as Bratley and Marder have anti tank missiles. They can knock out T90s.


Bradleys in action at 24:33


----------



## Viet

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> So is Russia. More than 100 new build T-90M, more than 100 new build Msta-SM2. It's going to be an army to be reckoned with.


Yes however Putin has to choose between 100 T90s and 10,000 homes for the poor. He can’t have both. As war criminal he will choose the war and let the poor to freeze to death.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Bradleys in action at 24:33



Different scenario. In the Gulf war Iraq had 20 million people fighting a 250 million Americans.


----------



## 925boy

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> So is Russia. More than 100 new build T-90M, more than 100 new build Msta-SM2. It's going to be an army to be reckoned with.


and also 5 new brigades ? on FInlad and Sweden's borders once they accept NATO membership? Shoigu mentioned new armed formations on Northern Russia near those countries recently. lmao- those weak azzes they call their PMs have to make the bold moves to actually join NATO...they are hesitant because NATO is at its weakest guarantee level to member states now.



Viet said:


> Yes however Putin has to choose between 100 T90s and 10,000 homes for the poor.


How many homes for the poor does US govt need to produce or provide?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611460433541763072


----------



## 925boy

ZeGerman said:


> OMG Critical territories being lost still!


yup...why you still in denial about it?


ZeGerman said:


> Can you actually list what critical territory Ukraine lost…


Russians recently took Yakovlivka,
Russians have half of Bakhmut already
Russian now just took Bakhmutska
Russian troops pushed into Zaparrozhe and took a town with no challenge...Ukrainians are obviously soft there.
NOW Russian troops are in the middle of Soledar...Ukrainians have basically lost Soledar..can you name one town Ukrainians took from Russian troops recently after Kherson?? NOPE! Ukraine gotta get broken because it agreed to be used as a proxy, seriously, Russia took charge cuz Ukraine threatened its existence. Ukraine was foolish to test the regional hegemon..same thing awaits Iraq if it tests Iran, same thing awaits South Korea or Japan if they test China.
Russians troops are entering ANY town they choose, Ukrainians can only hold off for so long...their military back-end logistics is defective and probably non existent really- denazification is in process- dont side with the Neonazis in UKraine time time ok?


ZeGerman said:


> in lets give you a nice timeline, the last 3 months?


asking for advanced stuff when you only have basic understanding? smh.


ZeGerman said:


> Also google “sierra army depot” if you believe Nato is running low on weapons hahahaa.


trolling

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Yes cause of al those carrier strike groups Nato has been donated to Ukraine? 🤣.
> 
> If anything, china is dissuaded due to the harsh reaction against russia. Which shows in how china stayed well clear of aiding the russians in anything else but hollow words and buying gas at huge discount.
> 
> Nato is using single digit defense budget and mostly old stock/hand me downs to help ukraine grind down russia.
> 8600 heavy material lost and counting. Losses of more then 50% of their active material. The russian bear is being cut down to teddybear size.



30 member nations in NATO, yet the West cries about the Iranian drone's and DPRK's artillery ammunition shipments to Russia. You hardly see the Russians cry about the Western arm shipments to Ukraine. 

Still, Russia is obliterating the West's cannon fodder in Ukraine. Watch how the Ukrainians are getting obliterated in the Bakhmut meat grinder 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611391662030475264

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## reflecthofgeismar

Vergennes said:


> I'll do it for you ;
> 
> "...,the moskva is under the sea..."
> 
> Special U-Boat Transformation Mission.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The West is so desperate that they want to play nice to President Maduro of Venezuela due to his country's vast oil reserves. They're so desperate to beg the governments that they tried to overthrow. They thought sanctioning Russia was going to be easy for them. They're now forced to sissy up to leaders they don't like. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611458279808311314

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Broccoli said:


> Russia doesnt have economy or material to continue this war for decades as they are now shipping more T-62's towards front and are burning trought T-90S tanks what are made for export. Some country out there isn't getting tanks they ordered.
> 
> West is only now beginning to ramp up production of ammunation, etc. Russian otherhand has same size economy as Italy (before EU stopped buying their oil) while US economy alone is over 20 trillion.




Russia has huge natural resources that make their arms industry less costly than the West. Every raw material they need for their tanks, artillery, fighter jets, drones, and ammunition are all extracted within Russia. Who cares what numbers of GDP the West has in their books.

The cost of living is also cheap in Russia. Countries like China, India, and others are also buying Russian raw material including oil and gas in huge quantities. This trade generates much needed cash to continue waging the war on West's cannon fodder.

This is a war of survival for Russia, remember. Therefore, Russia will do everything in their disposal to win this war. And that means the Western lenses can't be viewed in Russia's determination to see this war to the end. And looking at the endless demonstrations and skyrocketing cost of living, it is the West that is showing fatigue. Heck, they're already begging countries like Venezuela because of their oil - we're talking about a nation whose leader that the West tried to overthrow. 

Another thing that everyone is ignoring: Russia beat the SWIFT system that the West uses to subjugate other countries. The West thought by decoupling Russian banks from the SWIFT system, they would wreck havoc on Russia's trade and finances. Poor thing, Russia already planned for this by implementing their own SPFS financial system and by joining the Chinese-led CHIPS system. The West can throw as much tantrums as they like, but it is obvious they're losing in many fronts, and most certainly multi-polar world is a reality now as a result of this war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611484745803730944


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611471921744613376
Yippee!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611484353007333376

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## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> yup...why you still in denial about it?


Lets break down your clown post.


925boy said:


> Russians recently took Yakovlivka,


Small village.


925boy said:


> Russians have half of Bakhmut already


Like they did the last 5 months….


925boy said:


> Russian now just took Bakhmutska


Another village of little importance.


925boy said:


> Russian troops pushed into Zaparrozhe and took a town with no challenge...Ukrainians are obviously soft there.
> NOW Russian troops are in the middle of Soledar...Ukrainians have basically lost Soledar..


Like they have been in middle bahmut for 5 months.

You want critical territory. See the thousands of square km being taken in khrakiv and cherson (screenshot this!! 🤡)

Not 2 fucking mud huts over 5 km in 3 months. Even Bakhmut is of no real critical importance. Ukraine will keep resisting. We saw exact same rhetoric around severodonesk. Each shack taken being treated like a great voctlry. How fall of severodonetsk would collapse AFU cause it was grinded to destruction. All hot air


925boy said:


> can you name one town Ukrainians took from Russian troops recently after Kherson?? NOPE!


Russia just pumped in 300.000 mobilised to grind through. Lets wait till spring.

Ukraine has been making small advances around Kreminna, including a few settlements taken.



925boy said:


> Ukraine gotta get broken because it agreed to be used as a proxy, seriously, Russia took charge cuz Ukraine threatened its existence. Ukraine was foolish to test the regional hegemon..same thing awaits Iraq if it tests Iran, same thing awaits South Korea or Japan if they test China.
> Russians troops are entering ANY town they choose, Ukrainians can only hold off for so long...


Ok im waiting for them to retake cherson then. You know. Claimed as “russian land” hahahaa


925boy said:


> their military back-end logistics is defective and probably non existent really- denazification is in process- dont side with the Neonazis in UKraine time time ok?


Copium


925boy said:


> asking for advanced stuff when you only have basic understanding? smh.


You lost all authority and respect on your understanding mr “screenshot this”
clown. How does it feel to be wrong 300 days straight on this special operation?



925boy said:


> trolling


Finally the clown admits it.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611471921744613376
> Yippee!!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611484353007333376




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610446787474505728
Give it up Hassan, your not fooling anyone.

Russia hasn’t made any progress in six months. All the momentum is with Ukraine and with todays new weapons package, it’s clear the US is preparing Ukraine for a major offensive come spring to retake the rest of their territory. Russia has lost. 

Russia will never be able to outproduce the US and NATO. It’s time to come to terms with reality.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611465390957142040


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Fields like this one are all over Ukraine. Looks like those massive artillery assaults from Russian side have been taking their toll on the Ukrainians. But sadly the West that sends arms shipments and special forces to Ukraine don't care about the Ukrainian deaths. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611444100611379234

Cracks are opening up; Ukrainians are now saying they've been used by NATO and their puppet president is carrying out NATO's wishes.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611463121381765120

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611332927673061376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611318129585422337

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## MrHyperForEver

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> So now Ukrainians are demolishing their schools and hospitals with HIMARS


If those schools have 600 enemy troops in that case yes.


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## Georg

I would like to know how many ruble Hassan gets for every BS post he present us?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MrHyperForEver said:


> If those schools have 600 enemy troops in that case yes.



Then don't complain when Russians bomb schools and hospitals.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611372544208113664

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## reflecthofgeismar

Georg said:


> I would like to know how many ruble Hassan gets for every BS post he present us?


If he is REALLY a Somalian who is living (starving) in Somalia.
Maybe he is getting his calories through Russian donations?

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## doorstar

reflecthofgeismar said:


> If he is REALLY a Somalian who is living (starving) in Somalia.
> Maybe he is getting his calories through Russian donations?









 keep a venomous viper as pet then moan when it bites you in the arse

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## The SC

Calm day!


----------



## Stranagor

Opinion Researcher Lev Gudkov: "Russians Have Little Compassion for the Ukrainians"


Lev Gudkov investigates what makes Russians tick with his independent opinion research institute. In an interview, he discusses the lack of morals in his home country, Russia's victim mentality and fears of nuclear war.




www.spiegel.de






DER SPIEGEL: The war itself isn’t being questioned? 

Gudkov: No, the attacks on Ukraine and the massacres play no role. The Russians have little compassion for the Ukrainians. Almost no one here talks about the fact that people are being killed in Ukraine.

...

DER SPIEGEL: More than 10,000 men are reported to have been killed in this war, according to independent Russian media, and tens of thousands according to Western sources. Are people aware of the losses?

Gudkov: Not really. We are experiencing total censorship. Facebook and Twitter are blocked, as are many internet media outlets. The share of those who know how to circumvent the blockages through VPNs (services that establish an encrypted online connection) has risen from around 6 to 8 percent to 23 percent, but it is still small. They are mostly younger, educated residents of the largest cities. The predominant share of the population is still exposed to propaganda. For the clear majority, especially older Russians, the only authoritative sources of information are the state television channels

...


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611540990493396992

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## Stranagor

aviator_fan said:


> Kremlin had all the right elements going for itself over the last decade with its softer war using cyber and intel ops on social. Much more active Right movements in many countries, NATO softening up (beginning with US criticizing it), and public support for weapons programs and manufacturers at an all time low (in Germany banks were being pressured by groups to treat arms manufacturers in a way that they would not even be able to do with business with as if they were some illegal drug cartel).



One wonders why Putin seemingly acted prematurely (with the invasion of the Crimea). Things seemed going well on all fronts, including Europe shunning the US on Nord Stream 2, Trump having a good shot for reelection (I believe Russian war on Ukraine was a major factor in Democrat's relative success in mid-elections), a peace-nulled Europe with singular reliance on the US for defense, Western democracies shifting towards the right, US mired in domestic problems, etc. 

Was it because Putin was getting old, hence he wanted to finish the job? Or, did he smell some potential threat at home to his long rule? Was he coaxed/fooled into the invasion by external persuasion? Or, simply did he suffer 'great man syndrome,' which is usual for people who get all-powerful surrounded by yes-men in an unusually long tenure?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611472238779432961

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## Hassan Al-Somal

reflecthofgeismar said:


> If he is REALLY a Somalian who is living (starving) in Somalia.
> Maybe he is getting his calories through Russian donations?



Nah, I am in Germany, banging those German chicks like everyone else is doing including asylum seekers. Ever since Germany was defeated in WWII, that whole country was free for all. From Soviet army, to American GIs, to asylum seekers, Germany is prey for everyone. loooooooooool

Now, here are the Germans who are quitting their army because they don't want to face the Russians again. The Russians must have sure left a mark in the Germans that they don't want to face the Russian army again.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611383007461675008

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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Fields like this one are all over Ukraine. Looks like those massive artillery assaults from Russian side have been taking their toll on the Ukrainians. But sadly the West that sends arms shipments and special forces to Ukraine don't care about the Ukrainian deaths.



It is Ukrainian people demanding weapons and doing the resistance.

Ukrainian people don't have another better option. The alternative is occupation by a foreign enemy. 

It is Putin who does not care about the Russian deaths. His armies are in a foreign country, dying in scores 

In fact, he plans to push more of them into the battlefield in a foreign country that hates them.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Then don't complain when Russians bomb schools and hospitals.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611372544208113664



Russia can bomb their own schools and hospitals inside Russia if it finds 600 foreign military personnel and lots of foreign military ammunition in them.



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Then don't complain when Russians bomb schools and hospitals.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611372544208113664



Russia can bomb their own schools and hospitals inside Russia if it finds 600 foreign military personnel and lots of foreign military ammunition in them.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611356252894003200


Stranagor said:


> It is Ukrainian people demanding weapons and doing the resistance.
> 
> It is Putin who does not care about the Russian deaths.
> 
> In fact, he plans to push more if them into the battlefield in a foreign country that hates them.



Novorossiya is Russian-speaking and they voted overwhelmingly to join Russia. Now, the Russian army who are fighting to protect the Russian-speaking communities there are not in foreign land; they're in their own country. Similarly, southern Ukraine is overwhelmingly Russian-speaking as well, and its liberation is coming as well.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611374198106251264
Very sad for that poor fella. I don't really think the bankers in NY and London know or care about what happened to that fella.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611339682104893440

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## zectech

The ultra-MAGA Russia Republicans fight in the US has huge implications into the funding and supplying of Ukraine in this war.

The debt ceiling fight has both direct and indirect implications:



Fight over House speaker job offers ‘ominous portent of how the U.S. debt-ceiling fight will go,’ analyst says



Directly, by less for Ukraine, perhaps no more arms and funds for Ukraine because of no raise in the debt ceiling.

Indirectly, is the MAGA fight over not only debt, government shutdown, not wanting lend-lease, the smallest bit of help for Ukraine is going to be blocked by these Trumper Putinites in the House.

The ways around it is to have Democrats block military funding unless Ukraine and Europe are defended and link military funding to arming Ukraine. This could get support in the Senate, however, two Democrats in the senate are Republican-lite, from WV and from AZ. So with only a one seat majority, losing two senators means idea this could be stopped. The Senate could filibuster on US defense spending to force Republicans to arm Ukraine and defend Europe.

The other way to arm Ukraine is Lend-lease. This could by-pass budget.

This is one of the many reasons why Europe needs to be able to take on Russia alone, with a military far greater than 15K tanks, 20K artillery, 50K armored vehicles. Russia Republicans are the evidence that Europe is alone, when the traitor caucus of MAGA Russia Republicans are in Washington.

Europe does not need to supply Ukraine with free weapons, Europe needs weapons to prevent a war with Russia.

I said Europe needs to arm itself to the teeth because Russia Republicans either overtly side with Putin or covertly side with Putin.

_*This war can only be followed by peace if it ends with the complete military and political defeat of Putin’s Russia and the dismantling of the current regime. Putin’s state must cease to exist: not Russia, but the current state, hostile to the entire world, itself included. Any other outcome would only result in a temporary ceasefire, as once Putin’s regime will simply go on another attack as soon as it's replenished its strength.*_









Once Unthinkable, Capitulation Could Still Be Russia's Saving Grace - The Moscow Times


Opinion | The war started by Vladimir Putin has no goals that can be achieved.




www.themoscowtimes.com













Russian Defense Chief Says Military Factories Working ‘Around the Clock’ - The Moscow Times


Factories in Russia producing military equipment are working nonstop and have withdrawn New Year holidays from employees, the head of state defense military conglomerate Rostec Sergei Chemezov said Monday. “Rostec’s factories involved in fulfilling state contracts are working almost around the...




www.themoscowtimes.com





*Russian Defense Chief Says Military Factories Working ‘Around the Clock’ *

Said EU nations need to work around the clock in making arms. Got only gales of stupid laughter in reply.

Russian arms industry is working around the clock to defeat Europe. Are EU arms industry working around the clock to defend Europe.?.

Russia supporters from China, Iran to Russia Republicans are enemies of Europe. These individuals want the EU to collapse and the euro and ECB to fail. These are Europe's enemies.













Putin cronies do not want a strong Europe.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503853921680474119
Putin cronies want a weak, divided and dependent EU, dependent on Washington for defense. So no help would arrive with Russia Republicans in Washington.

For this an many reasons. Europe needs to re-arm.

Putin knows that Russia Republicans want war with China. Expect a Russian invasion of Europe if the US decides on war with China. As Russia Republicans are busy with defeating China, Putin plans to annex much of Europe.

Republicans Pressure Biden to Commit to War With China Over Taiwan​








Republicans Pressure Biden to Commit to War With China Over Taiwan


"Twice @POTUS has said America would defend Taiwan if invaded, and twice the White House has walked it back," GOP Senator Rick Scott tweeted.




www.newsweek.com





Russia Republicans want their war with China, yet are opposed to sending arms to have Europe defend from invasion from their buddy Putin.






Russia Republicans have returned, and these individuals are for letting Europe fall to Putin. While pushing for a war with China. This means they are not fiscal conservatives. It means this is true:

Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU​








Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède


Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède




www.theguardian.com





So, if you are for a prosperous and successful EU, Russia Republicans are your enemy.

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## LeGenD

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> Different scenario. In the Gulf war Iraq had 20 million people fighting a 250 million Americans.



You think of every war in WWII terms.

You need to improve quality of your responses or I might think about your access in this thread.

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## zectech

Russia Republicans want actual war with nuclear China. A war of China vs USA, over Taiwan.

Yet, Russia Republicans want to block military supplies to Ukraine to defend Europe. Ukraine is doing the fighting to defend Europe, not the USA, and Russian Republicans want to block arms to Ukraine.

Let that sink in to you. The loss of Taiwan is more important to these "white" nationalist 5th column traitor Republicans than the loss of Europe.

This has returned to Washington. The House is to support Putin, by not defending Europe from Russia.







Russia is a torture state. If you oppose your fuhrer in Russia, you could be arrested and tortured.









Torture in Russia Becoming 'Government Policy,' Warns Disbanding NGO


Amid the Ukraine War, the Russian Committee for the Prevention of Torture struggled as police arrested thousands of anti-war protesters.




www.newsweek.com





There is a free fraud zone, free torture zone in Russia. If you anger your former buddy Putin, Putin takes your hotel complex in sochi. If you distribute 1984 in Russia for free, you are kidnapped by the "Russian government". Russia is the enemy of Europe, a terrorist state, and Russia Republicans refuse to defend Europe from their buddy Putin.


----------



## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611356252894003200
> 
> 
> Novorossiya is Russian-speaking and they voted overwhelmingly to join Russia. Now, the Russian army who are fighting to protect the Russian-speaking communities there are not in foreign land; they're in their own country. Similarly, southern Ukraine is overwhelmingly Russian-speaking as well, and its liberation is coming as well.


Can anyone survive the shock wave from the explosion, seems to be an awful weapon?

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## BHAN85

Georg said:


> we dont see ww3 and of course no nukes... not even tactical... Putin knows if he use tactical nukes in Ukraine Nato would whipp out the existance of the Black Sea fleet in one day and would most likely flatten every russian military instalation in occupied Ukraine and there is abslutly nothing the Russian could do to stop this from happen


It has no sense that Russia uses nukes against Ukraine.

It has sense Russian using nukes against rich non-Nuclear western countries like Germany, to blow up them and loot them.

Russia shows some restraint against Ukraine, because it's the same people.

But that doesnt apply to the West. And when the time will come, USA will do nothing. All the west (except real nuclear states like UK, France, USA) are future looted land zones for Russian troops.

Watch and save well your washing machine.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## khansaheeb

Georg said:


> we dont see ww3 and of course no nukes... not even tactical... Putin knows if he use tactical nukes in Ukraine Nato would whipp out the existance of the Black Sea fleet in one day and would most likely flatten every russian military instalation in occupied Ukraine and there is abslutly nothing the Russian could do to stop this from happen


and then what, after all the Russian military's has been destroyed?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> and then what, after all the Russian military's has been destroyed?



China gets involved if they invade Russia. China has 1.4 billion people. Let's go!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611566523688124416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611475818626039808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611477648689205248

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Yeah, I think Ukraine will most likely buy a lot of ex-US article after the war is over more than likely they will go with older generation Armour like advanced M60 or older M1..Either with US aid or in exchange of some partnership.


Post war I believe they would most likely get the Abrams export version maybe. Depends on what Ukraine wants. Right now they need tanks currently for the war obviously. I mentioned before that some European countries are hesitant to send in tanks except for Poland, Czech and Slovakia that have sent Russian design tanks but nothing western. As I have said that the U.S. should take the lead by sending in M60s to get other countries to contribute just like sending in Bradleys and other countries even Germany to send their IFVs.


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611423444238831616
> Massive package, looks like M109s from US stock too. More details later


Was the JDAMs separate package? Before this? I'm hoping they didn't change their mind and excluded from this. JDAMs would definitely help!



Stranagor said:


> That's a weird logic.
> 
> Russia is the aggressor here.
> 
> The West has greater confidence, hence qualitative and quantitative increase in helping Ukrainian resistance and victory.
> 
> Cannon fodder are those forcefully recruited by Putin and shoved into the front lines.
> 
> Putin is getting nervous, hence he plans another round of forced mobilization.
> 
> What an end to a 3-day campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps Ukraine is preparing for the next Russian human wave. It is Western weapons production versus Russian human production.
> 
> See which one is to be depleted first.


Thousands of JDAMs would be the way to go IF they launch another offensive in the north. Along with HIMARS and other vehicles, not to mention anti tank weaponry and SAMs. I would say its 90% bluff and 10% actual offensive coming. Only NATO intelligence would know when they watch the activities in Belarus and Russia bordering in Northern Ukraine. Just like predicting when Russia was planning to invade.

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## Oldman1

Georg said:


> we dont see ww3 and of course no nukes... not even tactical... Putin knows if he use tactical nukes in Ukraine Nato would whipp out the existance of the Black Sea fleet in one day and would most likely flatten every russian military instalation in occupied Ukraine and there is abslutly nothing the Russian could do to stop this from happen


The Ukrainians will go into a frenzy if nukes are used, even the Russian people won't approve it either. Not to mention how the world will respond. Its the biggest event of the century.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Post war I believe they would most likely get the Abrams export version maybe. Depends on what Ukraine wants. Right now they need tanks currently for the war obviously. I mentioned before that some European countries are hesitant to send in tanks except for Poland, Czech and Slovakia that have sent Russian design tanks but nothing western. As I have said that the U.S. should take the lead by sending in M60s to get other countries to contribute just like sending in Bradleys and other countries even Germany to send their IFVs.


Well, post war there are going to be a lot of support vehicle, Ukraine will most likely have a lot of tanks after this war, The US and EU will give what they can to them so around 300-500 Western Tank, that is more than most Western Country. 

Ukrainian have had their own armour production capability, it was just destroyed by the war, post war the West will most likely focus on fixing the Ukrainian Weapon production capability instead of keep transferring vehicle, which mean it's more logical to sell them stuff that they can't make, like HIMARS or light utilities vehicle, but will help redevelop Ukrainian company like Kharkiv Tank Factory (forgot the name) and Antonov. Because that would benefit the West too..

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russia funniest home video. C/W: Gruesome & hilarious. Can't stop laughing. 

Not for me. But for you normy out there. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611555760198254593


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, post war there are going to be a lot of support vehicle, Ukraine will most likely have a lot of tanks after this war, The US and EU will give what they can to them so around 300-500 Western Tank, that is more than most Western Country.
> 
> Ukrainian have had their own armour production capability, it was just destroyed by the war, post war the West will most likely focus on fixing the Ukrainian Weapon production capability instead of keep transferring vehicle, which mean it's more logical to sell them stuff that they can't make, like HIMARS or light utilities vehicle, but will help redevelop Ukrainian company like Kharkiv Tank Factory (forgot the name) and Antonov. Because that would benefit the West too..


Yeah I believe they had their own design that is similar to most Russian design except they made it where the ammo would be in separate compartment in rear turret. They had good ideas, just not enough funding. They had alot of good ideas.









Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia funniest home video. C/W: Gruesome & hilarious. Can't stop laughing.
> 
> Not for me. But for you normy out there.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611555760198254593


Have you seen on twitter where a Russian nurse blackmailing a Russian soldier to give her money or she would force him to go to the frontlines?

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russia is a real country for some reason. 








Russia Is Afraid of Western Psychic Attacks


Pseudoscience and mysticism are common among the Moscow elite.




foreignpolicy.com





Don't they have someone like Yuri to protect them from psychic attack or something?

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah I believe they had their own design that is similar to most Russian design except they made it where the ammo would be in separate compartment in rear turret. They had good ideas, just not enough funding. They had alot of good ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen on twitter where a Russian nurse blackmailing a Russian soldier to give her money or she would force him to go to the frontlines?


if you ask me, the West should have start rebuilding Ukrainian weapon manufacturer capability in Western Ukraine or Central Ukraine now, it's a lot better for Ukraine to make their own stuff and use it on this war. This is going to be better and quicker than waiting on the West to send them stuff. 

All they need is to put a lot of SAM in the area so it will make it safe from Russian Air attack.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611520551503421441


jhungary said:


> if you ask me, the West should have start rebuilding Ukrainian weapon manufacturer capability in Western Ukraine or Central Ukraine now, it's a lot better for Ukraine to make their own stuff and use it on this war. This is going to be better and quicker than waiting on the West to send them stuff.
> 
> All they need is to put a lot of SAM in the area so it will make it safe from Russian Air attack.



Ukraine can make 1,000 Leopard 2 tanks a month. Ukrainians are beasts.


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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> 30 member nations in NATO, yet the West cries about the Iranian drone's and DPRK's artillery ammunition shipments to Russia. You hardly see the Russians cry about the Western arm shipments to Ukraine.
> 
> Still, Russia is obliterating the West's cannon fodder in Ukraine. Watch how the Ukrainians are getting obliterated in the Bakhmut meat grinder 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611391662030475264


You sometimes will say something logical and then you disappoint by acting like you are part of Putin's propaganda wing and discredit yourself. 

Yes, it makes no sense to criticize Russia's supplier of weapons as something being done morally incorrectly when in many other theaters countries that are part of NATO (not NATO itself) did the same to the attacking side.

But you really have to move on from the meat grinder comment: where is Russia's propaganda machine's videos and fake documentaries: instead we have the new year with 100 officially addmitted, likely 500 dead). And Putin's message that this war is (now) about Russia's survival when but just 7 months ago it was supposed to be a days long operation. That does not happen in a meat grinder.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611364239511265280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611428295093981190

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611447761966362624






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611442423154225152







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611509807957114881

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## Reashot Xigwin

Russia will outproduce the West they said.


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611364239511265280
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611428295093981190
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611447761966362624
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611442423154225152
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611509807957114881


By this pace of weapons delivery Ukraine will become the most weaponized country on earth.


----------



## Viet

Belarus partisans


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## sammuel

Viet said:


> By this pace of weapons delivery Ukraine will become the most weaponized country on earth.



US has hundreds of those in storage :






For the first time US to supply Ukraine with 18 M109 Paladin 155mm howitzers | Defense News January 2023 Global Security army industry | Defense Security global news industry army year 2023 | Archive News year


For the first time US to supply Ukraine with 18 M109 Paladin 155mm tracked self-propelled howitzers




www.armyrecognition.com






As for leopard-2 :









Ukraine Needs Leopard 2 Tanks. Its Allies Are Getting Closer To Providing Them.


So which of Ukraine’s allies is going to be the first to pledge Leopard 2 tanks?




www.forbes.com





~


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

khansaheeb said:


> Can anyone survive the shock wave from the explosion, seems to be an awful weapon?




Not really. Those are thermobaric missiles that can can vapourise the human bodies. They work by spraying fuel vapor; the cloud left hanging in the air is then ignited by a second blast. It is these weapons which are doing the damage in the Bakhmut meat grinder.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Yes however Putin has to choose between 100 T90s and 10,000 homes for the poor. He can’t have both. As war criminal he will choose the war and let the poor to freeze to death.


wasn't there interesting photos and videos from USA from last cold wave , just less than a month ago ?
did anybody cared to say such thing about Biden ?



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The West is so desperate that they want to play nice to President Maduro of Venezuela due to his country's vast oil reserves. They're so desperate to beg the governments that they tried to overthrow. They thought sanctioning Russia was going to be easy for them. They're now forced to sissy up to leaders they don't like.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611458279808311314


real patethic move by some western countries

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611314202328571905
Another sign that the West is preparing Ukraine for an eventual defeat? If those satelites are taken out or blinded, the Western support to Ukraine in the war would be severely interrupted.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611554247837110273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611544756252811265

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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> Post war I believe they would most likely get the Abrams export version maybe. Depends on what Ukraine wants. Right now they need tanks currently for the war obviously. I mentioned before that some European countries are hesitant to send in tanks except for Poland, Czech and Slovakia that have sent Russian design tanks but nothing western. As I have said that the U.S. should take the lead by sending in M60s to get other countries to contribute just like sending in Bradleys and other countries even Germany to send their IFVs.


leopard-2 latest model or Abram export version . i think its a no brainier.
by the way you think how long an m60 can survive there even if its as upgraded as Turkish m60s








jhungary said:


> if you ask me, the West should have start rebuilding Ukrainian weapon manufacturer capability in Western Ukraine or Central Ukraine now, it's a lot better for Ukraine to make their own stuff and use it on this war. This is going to be better and quicker than waiting on the West to send them stuff.
> 
> All they need is to put a lot of SAM in the area so it will make it safe from Russian Air attack.


useless move if russia can attack there anytime they want , first they must do something about Ukraine air defence


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611555998556094465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611556010107305984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611554943579684864

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611456777471807489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611443684087848960

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611480433979711488


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611480433979711488


Ah yes. Scott ritter.
Claimed russia would not attack but it did
Claimed ukraine would fall in weeks.
Then claims every week how ukraine has no chance in this war

In meantime 300 days and counting…..50% land retaken

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> wasn't there interesting photos and videos from USA from last cold wave , just less than a month ago ?
> did anybody cared to say such thing about Biden ?
> 
> 
> real patethic move by some western countries


The cold wave in the west is over my friend, here it’s even too warm that I can run in shorts. The difference between homeless in America and Russia is, while Ukraine is supported by 50-countries alliance, Russia is supported by willing buyers of its oil and gas.

Once those willing buyers stop buying then Russia is finished. Putin’s daily business is not only the war but how to entertain those buyers to keep them happy. He is an entertaining clown. What do you think what happens if China suddenly stops buying?

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> The cold wave in the west is over my friend, here it’s even too warm that I can run in shorts. The difference is Ukraine is supported by 50-countries alliance while Russia is supported by willing buyers of oil and gas.
> 
> Once those willing buyers stop buying then Russia is finished. Putin’s daily business is no longer the war but how to entertain those buyers to keep them happy.


the point is not its past and finished or not , the point is that Biden did nothing about it and there were casualties , nobody called Biden war-criminal for its action during it .
by the way will you guarantee another cold wave won't happen.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611639976722145280
Ukraine forces counterattacked and retaken Soledar

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611664519264374786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611661607540490240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611660386419314692

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611641980949352451

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> the point is not its past and finished or not , the point is that Biden did nothing about it and there were casualties , nobody called Biden war-criminal for its action during it .
> by the way will you guarantee another cold wave won't happen.


How do you know Biden does not do anything? Biden is a democrat. he is like other democrats in the west. those are more socialist than other socialists in socialist countries. Biden prints money and rains it on families and other groups than ever. He acts no different than other western governments led by democrats.

As for war crimes, there is no excuse to invade a sovereign nation. You can’t use war crimes of others to justify own war crimes.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Bradleys spotted in Bulgaria

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611362245925019648


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611672986498605056

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## F-22Raptor

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Bradleys spotted in Bulgaria
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611362245925019648


US Army operates all across Europe. I doubt these are the ones headed to Ukraine. Pentagon said it’ll take two months of training before Bradley’s are in Ukraine.


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nah, I am in Germany, banging those German chicks like everyone else is doing including asylum seekers. Ever since Germany was defeated in WWII, that whole country was free for all. From Soviet army, to American GIs, to asylum seekers, Germany is prey for everyone. loooooooooool
> 
> Now, here are the Germans who are quitting their army because they don't want to face the Russians again. The Russians must have sure left a mark in the Germans that they don't want to face the Russian army again.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611383007461675008


I don't care about libturd leftists who have sex with foreigners.
They are liking so called refugees. I like them too, if they damage the lefts in the one manner or the other. 
I don't like that if a drunk black African is yelling "Heil Hit'er!" it's counted as a right wing crime, to say we have sooo many "Nazis".

You like right-wing Hungarians because their leadership is against EU-based "values" (which I can REALLY understand) but then I can understand too that this Hungary is beating so called refugees to a pulp on the border for illegal-invasion like trespassing.  <3

You still like Hungarians the same level like hippity hoppity libturds who are with the one half of their brain for so called refugees?


It's like Muslims would like to change US/Israeli troops with Russians/Chinese.
You know that Russians/Chinese don't have this liberal human value based rules?
Often hypocritical based values, I know but let it sound cynical, still better than be trashed in the corner like under Russian/Chinese hard hand.
At least you have the chance to improve your life under US/Western dominance, look at Germany, Japan, (South)Korea, hell, even Vietnam is doing fine, even 25 generations will have problems with genetic defects.
Only the "typical" countries will still be shitholes ... FUNNY.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

F-22Raptor said:


> US Army operates all across Europe. I doubt these are the ones headed to Ukraine. Pentagon said it’ll take two months of training before Bradley’s are in Ukraine.


I know. Never said they're heading to Ukraine. Just kinda nice to see Bradleys close to Ukraine, 

Likely it belongs to the US forces stationed there.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I know. Never said they're heading to Ukraine. Just kinda nice to see Bradleys close to Ukraine,
> 
> Likely it belongs to the US forces stationed there.


They probably belong to 2 new US armor divisions in Europe. they will protect the central flank from Poland to Romania. Germany will raise 2 divisions. they will protect the northern flank, the Baltic’s.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Russian playing HOI4 with the historical focus off

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611072881072672768


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Hack-Hook said:


> leopard-2 latest model or Abram export version . i think its a no brainier.
> by the way you think how long an m60 can survive there even if its as upgraded as Turkish m60s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> useless move if russia can attack there anytime they want , first they must do something about Ukraine air defence



Turkish M60T aka Sabra Mk II were in fact a Hybrid between Sabra Mk I and EARLY Sabra Mk II.
Sabra Mk III (more stuff from Merkava Mk IV) exist only 1 photo or so.
Here is the "classic" Sabra Mk II (Iron Fist included)


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> useless move if russia can attack there anytime they want , first they must do something about Ukraine air defence


Did you even read the last line of my post??


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611708729317015552

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611062519291936768
> 50 Bradleys in next weapons package


Which variant?


----------



## jhungary

Primus said:


> Which variant?


M2A2

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sharma Ji

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611708729317015552


no info, no proper context, nothing.. could be from anywhere, or even a scale diorama..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> M2A2



Introduced in 1988. I was 4 years old in 1988. 1980s was America's peak era. Best movies were 80s movies. In the 80s there was hardly any PC, no smartphone. Americans were happier and healthier back then. Full of energy and love for life.


----------



## kingQamaR

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Bradleys spotted in Bulgaria
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611362245925019648



The US has about 2,000 of these in moth balls. Sending some or all of these would cut down on storage costs. They are fitted with a TOW anti-tank missile system so can take out tanks, especially the antiquated tanks the Russians are now forced to use.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> The US has about 2,000 of these in moth balls. Sending some or all of these would cut down on storage costs. They are fitted with a TOW anti-tank missile system so can take out tanks, especially the antiquated tanks the Russians are now forced to use.



All new build Russian tanks are T-90M with a production rate of 100 a month. Many 80s T-72 were upgraded to B3 standard. While 80s Bradley is good in the 80s. It is extremely vulnerable to modern drone based warfare where drones are used at the squad level for recon.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611697105810104323

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611710060463378432


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611700002132299785

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## aviator_fan

Anybody know if existing stock exists and this is being to replinish, or US never had the need for this and is a completely new build to end up in Ukraine?









Pentagon awards L3Harris $40 mln anti-drone weapon systems contract


The U.S. Department of Defense awarded L3Harris Technologies Inc a $40 million contract to deliver 14 anti-drone weapon systems to bolster Ukraine's security forces, the defense contractor said on Friday.




www.reuters.com





Pentagon awards L3Harris $40 mln anti-drone weapon systems contract​Reuters





The Pentagon building is seen in Arlington, Virginia, U.S. October 9, 2020. REUTERS/Carlos Barria
Jan 6 (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Defense awarded L3Harris Technologies Inc (LHX.N) a $40 million contract to deliver 14 anti-drone weapon systems to bolster Ukraine's security forces, the defense contractor said on Friday.
The company said its Vehicle Agnostic Modular Palletized ISR Rocket Equipment (VAMPIRE) kit will allow Ukraine ground forces to target, shoot down enemy drones and defend against ground threats.
Advertisement · Scroll to continue

Under the contract, L3Harris will deliver four VAMPIRE units by mid-2023 and ten more by year-end.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aviator_fan said:


> Anybody know if existing stock exists and this is being to replinish, or US never had the need for this and is a completely new build to end up in Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pentagon awards L3Harris $40 mln anti-drone weapon systems contract
> 
> 
> The U.S. Department of Defense awarded L3Harris Technologies Inc a $40 million contract to deliver 14 anti-drone weapon systems to bolster Ukraine's security forces, the defense contractor said on Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pentagon awards L3Harris $40 mln anti-drone weapon systems contract​Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pentagon building is seen in Arlington, Virginia, U.S. October 9, 2020. REUTERS/Carlos Barria
> Jan 6 (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Defense awarded L3Harris Technologies Inc (LHX.N) a $40 million contract to deliver 14 anti-drone weapon systems to bolster Ukraine's security forces, the defense contractor said on Friday.
> The company said its Vehicle Agnostic Modular Palletized ISR Rocket Equipment (VAMPIRE) kit will allow Ukraine ground forces to target, shoot down enemy drones and defend against ground threats.
> Advertisement · Scroll to continue
> 
> Under the contract, L3Harris will deliver four VAMPIRE units by mid-2023 and ten more by year-end.



Vampire is a souped up pickup truck. It is very vulnerable to anti tank missile.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611736966394953728
Another Russian launched to the Moon

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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> The US has about 2,000 of these in moth balls. Sending some or all of these would cut down on storage costs. They are fitted with a TOW anti-tank missile system so can take out tanks, especially the antiquated tanks the Russians are now forced to use.


The russians dig deep and vast trenches in Donbas, Luhansk, Kherson, Crimea and everywhere. Then they flank these WW1 trenches with rows of artillery. Without tanks Ukraine army cannot overcome those obstacles. These infantry tanks Bratley, Marder, french RC are good but not good enough for Ukraine to win the war.
Ukraine says she needs at least 400 heavy tanks.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611706365059428354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611713677782093825


----------



## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> The russians dig deep and vast trenches in Donbas, Luhansk, Kherson, Crimea and everywhere. Then they flank these WW1 trenches with rows of artillery. Without tanks Ukraine army cannot overcome those obstacles. These infantry tanks Bratley, Marder, french RC are good but not good enough for Ukraine to win the war.
> Ukraine says she needs at least 400 heavy tanks.
> 
> 
> View attachment 910147




If used correctly in a combined arms industry supported role and receiving 50 units ( depending on model and features) the Bradley should be quite effective against almost any Russian armour. If provided and trained on sooner than later it will give Ukrainian a much bigger advantage and punch especially, when advancing against hardened and dug in positions as we’ve seen Russian s use all to often. Since there are many rivers and bodies of water needed to be traversed to take their land back, the Bradley will be perfect especially since UKR doesn’t have to build temporary bridges and infrastructure to effectively advance over water under fire. It could become another US provided game changer especially in the south.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

reflecthofgeismar said:


> I don't care about libturd leftists who have sex with foreigners.
> They are liking so called refugees. I like them too, if they damage the lefts in the one manner or the other.
> I don't like that if a drunk black African is yelling "Heil Hit'er!" it's counted as a right wing crime, to say we have sooo many "Nazis".
> 
> You like right-wing Hungarians because their leadership is against EU-based "values" (which I can REALLY understand) but then I can understand too that this Hungary is beating so called refugees to a pulp on the border for illegal-invasion like trespassing.  <3
> 
> You still like Hungarians the same level like hippity hoppity libturds who are with the one half of their brain for so called refugees?
> 
> 
> It's like Muslims would like to change US/Israeli troops with Russians/Chinese.
> You know that Russians/Chinese don't have this liberal human value based rules?
> Often hypocritical based values, I know but let it sound cynical, still better than be trashed in the corner like under Russian/Chinese hard hand.
> At least you have the chance to improve your life under US/Western dominance, look at Germany, Japan, (South)Korea, hell, even Vietnam is doing fine, even 25 generations will have problems with genetic defects.
> Only the "typical" countries will still be shitholes ... FUNNY.



Overwhelming majority of these "*typical*" countries are doing fine and don't have your degeneracy. The ones who are not doing fine is due to Western powers' interference in their internal affairs. 

But you as a German - if you are a German - shouldn't be pointing fingers. Truth is Germany, Japan, and South Korea are colonies of America. President Putin recently explained it. Your side of the Nord Stream II gas pipeline was recently destroyed. You, your country, and your leaders know who did it. But since you're a country that is under full domination by others, you and your leaders don't dare to move your heads up and say who did it.

When American Neocons were invading Iraq and other countries, they ordered Germany to contribute tens of billions of USD to their murderous campaign. And being the* subjugated* colony you're, you obliged to it and provided the tens of billions of USD that were used for the invasion. You shouldn't be calling anyone else "*undeserving*" when you're a subjugated degenerate.

Let us not forget how your *subjugated* country (Germany) provides tens of billions of USD to Israeli territorial expansion. This is all because of what happened in the WWII.

Finally, the reason why many of the "typical" countries are agreeing with Russia and China is they are not interfering in the internal affairs of the "typical" countries. It is the West that has been looting their natural resources and funding every insurrection in these countries in addition to countless sanctions and invasions.


----------



## kingQamaR

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> All new build Russian tanks are T-90M with a production rate of 100 a month. Many 80s T-72 were upgraded to B3 standard. While 80s Bradley is good in the 80s. It is extremely vulnerable to modern drone based warfare where drones are used at the squad level for recon.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611697105810104323
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611710060463378432
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611700002132299785




BMP is garbage sorry. The problem with Russian tech is , that BMP1 and BMP2 have no targeting computer that does the work for you, also the weapon stabilisation is much worse for the BMP’S , as is protection. Also the optics and therefore situational awareness of the Bradley is Far superior. If I had to bet, the Bradley will hit first in 99% of cases when the circumstances are even. 

It will also chew up T72s by the dozen

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Ah yes. Scott ritter.
> Claimed russia would not attack but it did
> Claimed ukraine would fall in weeks.
> Then claims every week how ukraine has no chance in this war
> 
> In meantime 300 days and counting…..50% land retaken



The Bakhmut and Soledar meat grinder do tell a different story. The Ukrainians have taken a heavy beating there, and the Russians have really pooled their resources there, got enough Ukrainians who desperately tried to hold it, and slowly applied an overwhelming artillery-led bombardments on the defending Ukrainians. 

The idiotic Western leaders and their propagandists never understood the true aims of the Russian military leaders in Bakhmut. They thought Ukrainians holding it were heroic. But the truth is Russians were slowing eliminating the most experienced Ukrainian forces in the Bakhmud - Soledar meat grinder. 

You can continue believing your fairy tales though.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Truth is trickling. The work of the Russian military planners is paying dividends. The Ukrainians are admitting the attrition rate their forces are facing. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611733839331590147

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611457282667155456

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Truth is trickling. The work of the Russian military planners is paying dividends. The Ukrainians are admitting the attrition rate their forces are facing. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611733839331590147
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611457282667155456



"35K" "Meat Grinder" meanwhile the field is so full of Russian soldiers, which meat grinder ? 🤡


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611713677782093825

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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> If used correctly in a combined arms industry supported role and receiving 50 units ( depending on model and features) the Bradley should be quite effective against almost any Russian armour. If provided and trained on sooner than later it will give Ukrainian a much bigger advantage and punch especially, when advancing against hardened and dug in positions as we’ve seen Russian s use all to often. Since there are many rivers and bodies of water needed to be traversed to take their land back, the Bradley will be perfect especially since UKR doesn’t have to build temporary bridges and infrastructure to effectively advance over water under fire. It could become another US provided game changer especially in the south.


Yes certainly better than nothing. Those western infantry tanks are superior to Soviet infantry BMP tanks. Just saying however Ukraine would suffer heavy looses if running against Russia hardened positions with those infantry tanks.
Only heavy tanks offer speed, firepower and armor.
If Germany agrees today then 10 NATO members will deliver leopards to Ukraine immediately tomorrow.

Ukraine army urgently needs tanks for the incoming spring and summer offensives.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611638214908940289


Vergennes said:


> "35K" "Meat Grinder" meanwhile the field is so full of Russian soldiers, which meat grinder ? 🤡
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611713677782093825




Looks like someone is counting leaves as humans. Meanwhile, this video shows the beating that the Ukrainians have taken in Bakhmut - Soledar front. 👇



Spoiler: GRAPHIC - Ukrainian dead bodies litter all over the place





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611715814926974978




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611754045739499521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611749774524284930


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611651831486349335

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611718294821560321

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## sammuel

Viet said:


> Yes certainly better than nothing. Those western infantry tanks are superior to Soviet infantry BMP tanks. Just saying however Ukraine would suffer heavy looses if running against Russia hardened positions with those infantry tanks.
> Only heavy tanks offer speed, firepower and armor.
> If Germany agrees today then 10 NATO members will deliver leopards to Ukraine immediately tomorrow.
> 
> Ukraine army urgently needs tanks for the incoming spring and summer offensives.



From what i read it is up to Germany . 

Germany controls the export license for all Leopard 2s, so Berlin ultimately decides whether any country can sell or donate its tanks.

~


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## Viet

sammuel said:


> From what i read it is up to Germany .
> 
> Germany controls the export license for all Leopard 2s, so Berlin ultimately decides whether any country can sell or donate its tanks.
> 
> ~


Yes it’s up to Germany to decide, actually it’s up to Olaf Scholz to decide, nobody else.

If he thumps Up, lots of 2,000 leopards 2 tanks can go to Ukraine immediately. Also, there are some leopards at Rheinmetall. If ok Rheinmetall can start mass production instantly. Russia tanks have zero chance against the 62 tons monster especially the new variant.

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## beast89

Ukraine sending reinforcements to Bakhmut it seems


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## monitor

Undated photo of the aftermath of a Ukrainian T-64BV main battle tank being hit by a Russian ZALA Lancet loitering munition.






Apparently loitering munition didn't cause any significant damage.

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## beast89

Embassies are required to assist Ukrainians males abroad who are eligible for military service

Ukraine's been mobilising since day 1, now things are critical


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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611472238779432961



The logistics of Leopard 2 are far better for Ukraine(fuel usage!) than the Abrahams for sure - hope this happens soon.

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## beast89

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611416400031006751

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Ali_Baba

Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> All new build Russian tanks are T-90M with a production rate of 100 a month.



This is complete rubbish - Russia is not capable of building 100 of anything right now.



Viet said:


> Yes it’s up to Germany to decide, actually it’s up to Olaf Scholz to decide, nobody else.
> 
> If he thumps Up, lots of 2,000 leopards 2 tanks can go to Ukraine immediately. Also, there are some leopards at Rheinmetall. If ok Rheinmetall can start mass production instantly. Russia tanks have zero chance against the 62 tons monster especially the new variant.



Are there 2,000 Leopard tanks in storage??


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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> The logistics of Leopard 2 are far better for Ukraine(fuel usage!) than the Abrahams for sure - hope this happens soon.


Leopards 2 is more fuel efficiency it runs on cheap diesel. From the quality, leopards is the Mercedes while T90 is like Lada. They can give leopards 2 to Ukraine, then they buy new German tanks from Rheinmetall

leopards 3







or panther Kf51


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## beast89

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610884872184430592
Ukraine threw its best men at Bakhmut, against a good chunk who were convicts


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

jhungary said:


> if you ask me, the West should have start rebuilding Ukrainian weapon manufacturer capability in Western Ukraine or Central Ukraine now, it's a lot better for Ukraine to make their own stuff and use it on this war. This is going to be better and quicker than waiting on the West to send them stuff.
> 
> All they need is to put a lot of SAM in the area so it will make it safe from Russian Air attack.


 
*Russo-Ukrainian War:*
20 February 2014 – present (07.01.2023) (8 years, 10 months, 2 weeks and 5 days)

*Annexation of Crimea:*
Military operation: 23 February – 26 March 2014 (1 month and 6 days)
Annexation: 18 March 2014

*2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine:*
24 February 2022 – present (07.01.2023) (10 months, 2 weeks and 1 day)

*From start of the aggression to war more or less excactly 8 (!) years, enough time to prepare:*

*What to do?

– Anti-corruption campaign in the military industry:*
Only the companies with the highest quality delivery and with the smallest amount of corruption should be supported.
Every company of the military industrial complex is nationalized. Fewer companies overall, but with more "know-how", better wages and state support, but without corruption.

*– Ukrainian military industry is to be placed in the (south) western half/third of the country:*
Less chance of pro russian worker who sabotage/influence the production in a negative way.
Much more secured against seperatists attacks.
More strategic depth, would be easier to defend against external aggression from the eastern side.
Much more centralized, supply lines short as possible, easier overwatch.
Modular military industrial hubs, if one industrial place got destroyed, you have several others which are exact copies of that. Another thing is that you could pretty easily pull up de facto anywhere else in the country if needed.

*– Equipment-wise:*
It is important to import only what is absolutely necessary. The rest is self-made. Overall, some good products to focus on.
Old but still useable stuff like repaired/overhauled BTR-70/80 can be used with 2nd/3rd Tier units.

You don't need a dozen different weapons, vehicles of one & the same class, concentrate on the most useful and improve them.
Clear distinction between the National-Guard (5.56x45mm/7.62x51mm/12.7x99mm, 40x46mm, 40x53mm) and regular Army (EB calibres), equipment-related too.
Foreign legion equipped with western styled weapons/equipment.

*– Export/Re-import of military stuff:*
All military related stuff which will not be used in the Ukrainian army anymore is to be sold.
Some useful things like T-72 are to be send to Poland for upgrading to PT-91M2 (upgraded variant of PT-91 Twardy), payed for in the West.
Other option would be that Ukries upgrade their T-72 variants to the AMT level (even the B1 variant, would look a bit different then) and let them use by the foreign fighter brigade/legion only.
Poles get money from the West to upgrade all their T-72 to PT-91M2 standard.
In the meantime, some Ukries but more so foreign brigade/legion fighters are trained on these “new” tanks.
ALL NATO ex eastern block countries give their Mi-8/17/24 helicopter and Mig-29, Su-22/24/25 to Ukraine. Get 1:1 Blackhawk (weaponized Black Hawk for Mi-24) and F-16 for these. PAYED for in the West.
Same for AA systems, Soviet stock goes to Ukraine, get replenished with Western systems.

*– Restructuring of the armed forces of Ukraine:*
Restructuring of the ukrainian military. (See below)
Directly in 2014 Ukraine get enormous help with all the stuff above, much money which isn't wasted like in Afghanistan or Iraq. Supervision by the West which is interested in a strong souvereign Ukraine so a conventional war will not start in the first place because Ukraine has become to strong. So not the Realpolitk – Ukraine shall not lose and Russia not win but the war shall go long as possible to bleed the Russkies out (on the back of the Ukrainians).
No, be honest, have honest intentions to let it NOT come to a war.

So, 2014-MAXIMUM 2016 all the important industry is in the (south)western part of the country and on the border to Poland an exact copy of that industrial base.
In the mean time, promising designs are getting better, because more money (West, less corruption/sabotage etc.) is available and better spend.
At the beginning of 2017 production of the (more improved) Oplot-M starts.

Worst case – Tank production is in 2017 with 5 per month.
Best case – Tank production is in 2017 with 10+ per month.

Restructuring the forces self.
More modern approach – combined armoured battalion.

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## Ali_Baba

The warzone has done a number of interesting articles on the new IFVs and Sparrow missiles going to Ukraine. Worth a read for sure.









Meet All The Heavily Armored Western Combat Vehicles Ukraine Is Getting


We break down the types of potent armor Ukraine is suddenly getting from it’s western allies.




www.thedrive.com













Sea Sparrow RIM-7 Surface-To-Air Missiles Are Headed To Ukraine


The RIM-7 Sea Sparrow will be paired with Soviet-era Buk launchers and radar systems in a bizarre but potentially much needed mash-up.




www.thedrive.com













This Is What Bradley Fighting Vehicles Will Bring To The Fight In Ukraine (Updated)


With an initial batch of M2 Bradleys now slated for Ukraine, we dive into what impact these iconic vehicles could have on the battlefield.




www.thedrive.com


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611736966394953728
> Another Russian launched to the Moon







@Hassan Al-Somal


----------



## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> This is complete rubbish - Russia is not capable of building 100 of anything right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Are there 2,000 Leopard tanks in storage??


No I mean the European tank armies operate 2,000 leopards 2 tanks, they can give let’s say 500 to Ukraine. Poland is willing to give ALL leopards to Ukraine. 240 pieces. The Poles can’t sleep at night because they fear Russian invasion. How many leopards Germany has in storage I don’t know.

All we need is Germany greenlights ok then tanks can roll. The Wagner hooligans will run away faster than the fastest animal in jungle.


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## aviator_fan

Hack-Hook said:


> wasn't there interesting photos and videos from USA from last cold wave , just less than a month ago ?
> did anybody cared to say such thing about Biden ?
> 
> 
> real patethic move by some western countries


Not pathetic that russia leans on a 4th world N. Korea, but somehow pathetic that Venezuela is bad. At least be consistent in your philosophy and moral high-ground



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Bakhmut and Soledar meat grinder do tell a different story. The Ukrainians have taken a heavy beating there, and the Russians have really pooled their resources there, got enough Ukrainians who desperately tried to hold it, and slowly applied an overwhelming artillery-led bombardments on the defending Ukrainians.
> 
> The idiotic Western leaders and their propagandists never understood the true aims of the Russian military leaders in Bakhmut. They thought Ukrainians holding it were heroic. But the truth is Russians were slowing eliminating the most experiences Ukrainian forces in the Bakhmud - Soledar meat grinder.
> 
> You can continue believing your fairy tales though.


You should reveal teh whole truth please. We 100% believe your facts based on a twitter post and the fact you have written these lines. Russians are prevailing everywhere. They have taken over Kiev and have an installed Govt. Everybody here is a victim of western medium propaganda thinking the war is going on and Russians are fighting it out day in day out or the US is supplying more weapons.

No doubt Afghanistan has been successfully been under Kremlin's influence and rule since the short invasion by our comrades in 1979, so why would Putin have any trouble in Ukraine since its next door. Please share more facts from Twitter on how this reality is evolving since you are right at the center of action

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611788308744396800




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611774271227068416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611783723099340800


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611734962272669696



ww1 literally

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## aziqbal

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611788308744396800
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611774271227068416
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611783723099340800



this is sick and this is just sad they are still someones son

Russia is just throwing men into the death

over the years how many men has Russia lost ?

in WWII how many Russians died ? it takes 18 years to make a man

how many more will die, throwing men at at war like they are chickens

well I think if they were chickens they would have better chance

its just like slaughtering a lamb

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> No I mean the European tank armies operate 2,000 leopards 2 tanks, they can give let’s say 500 to Ukraine. Poland is willing to give ALL leopards to Ukraine. 240 pieces. The Poles can’t sleep at night because they fear Russian invasion. How many leopards Germany has in storage I don’t know.
> 
> All we need is Germany greenlights ok then tanks can roll. The Wagner hooligans will run away faster than the fastest animal in jungle.



thanks for the clarification - i understand now. It does seem that Olaf Scholz is the issue right now for sure ( it does not bode well for germany to sell tanks to other europe countries in the future for new models if germany does not approve the A2's to ukraine when all of the other A2 operators want to send tanks ).

there is a significant political and security disconnect there - one you wont get if you buy american...


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> How do you know Biden does not do anything? Biden is a democrat. he is like other democrats in the west. those are more socialist than other socialists in socialist countries. Biden prints money and rains it on families and other groups than ever. He acts no different than other western governments led by democrats.
> 
> As for war crimes, there is no excuse to invade a sovereign nation. You can’t use war crimes of others to justify own war crimes.


i don't justify anything , i say you can't call Putin a war-criminal for spending money on bullets and rockets instead of shelter for poor and not call Biden the same thing .
and no he didn't do anything . if you say he did something please tell us what he did ?



jhungary said:


> Did you even read the last line of my post??


the problem is GEPARD and NASAM proven ineffective , NATO need to send more potent air defense and they refrained to do so till today only old systems



Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen said:


> All new build Russian tanks are T-90M with a production rate of 100 a month. Many 80s T-72 were upgraded to B3 standard. While 80s Bradley is good in the 80s. It is extremely vulnerable to modern drone based warfare where drones are used at the squad level for recon.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611697105810104323
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611710060463378432
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611700002132299785


more like 10-15 per month


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Yes it’s up to Germany to decide, actually it’s up to Olaf Scholz to decide, nobody else.
> 
> If he thumps Up, lots of 2,000 leopards 2 tanks can go to Ukraine immediately. Also, there are some leopards at Rheinmetall. If ok Rheinmetall can start mass production instantly. Russia tanks have zero chance against the 62 tons monster especially the new variant.


does Ukraine have 8000 personnel trained in using of Leopard 2 , ready to man those tanks ? or they will come with crew ?



aviator_fan said:


> Not pathetic that russia leans on a 4th world N. Korea, but somehow pathetic that Venezuela is bad. At least be consistent in your philosophy and moral high-ground


Russia didn't do a 180 degree turn back when they bought from N. Korea .
a certain country did a U-Turn on its stand against Venezuela


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Bakhmut and Soledar meat grinder do tell a different story. The Ukrainians have taken a heavy beating there, and the Russians have really pooled their resources there, got enough Ukrainians who desperately tried to hold it, and slowly applied an overwhelming artillery-led bombardments on the defending Ukrainians.
> 
> The idiotic Western leaders and their propagandists never understood the true aims of the Russian military leaders in Bakhmut. They thought Ukrainians holding it were heroic. But the truth is Russians were slowing eliminating the most experiences Ukrainian forces in the Bakhmud - Soledar meat grinder.
> 
> You can continue believing your fairy tales though.


What fairy tales do i believe? 

That Kiev would not fall?
That ukranians were pushing back russia and would eventually retake Cherson? 


If were talking fairy tales its purely you “mr pockets”. 

We have been hearing this rhetoric around slow almost nonexistent russian advances for months. 
“Grinding, ukraine army will surely collapse after this town…oh wait the next town…oh wait the next town…oh wait…”

In the meantime the war drags on. And Russia loses more and more material and men while Nato is sending handmedowns and STILL on single digit defense budget aid.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

aviator_fan said:


> Not pathetic that russia leans on a 4th world N. Korea, but somehow pathetic that Venezuela is bad. At least be consistent in your philosophy and moral high-ground
> 
> 
> You should reveal teh whole truth please. We 100% believe your facts based on a twitter post and the fact you have written these lines. Russians are prevailing everywhere. They have taken over Kiev and have an installed Govt. Everybody here is a victim of western medium propaganda thinking the war is going on and Russians are fighting it out day in day out or the US is supplying more weapons.



I only stated Russians are prevailing in the Bakhmut -Soledar meat grinder. I showed different sources confirming that fact.




aviator_fan said:


> No doubt Afghanistan has been successfully been under Kremlin's influence and rule since the short invasion by our comrades in 1979, so why would Putin have any trouble in Ukraine since its next door. Please share more facts from Twitter on how this reality is evolving since you are right at the center of action



The mujahideen in Khorasan defeated the NATO Freemasonry alliance. It was 21 years struggle but they eventually kicked the Freemasonry alliance out of Khorasan.

Now, at the end of Russia - Ukraine conflict, don't be surprised if you see those Mujahideen in Bait Al-Muqdis or Quddus. There is an Islamic prophesy confirming it.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> i don't justify anything , i say you can't call Putin a war-criminal for spending money on bullets and rockets instead of shelter for poor and not call Biden the same thing .
> and no he didn't do anything . if you say he did something please tell us what he did ?


Budgets in the US are decided by Congress and not the President.
Sheltering the poor is unlikely to be a federal thing. It is the responsibility of each state. Putin has much more control, being a dictatorship.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> What fairy tales do i believe?
> 
> That Kiev would not fall?
> That ukranians were pushing back russia and would eventually retake Cherson?



Russians are gonna come back to Kherson and the South once they fully liberate Donbass region. That is what you need to understand "khaniis" boy.




ZeGerman said:


> If were talking fairy tales its purely you “mr pockets”.
> 
> We have been hearing this rhetoric around slow almost nonexistent russian advances for months.
> “Grinding, ukraine army will surely collapse after this town…oh wait the next town…oh wait the next town…oh wait…”
> 
> In the meantime the war drags on. And Russia loses more and more material and men while Nato is sending handmedowns and STILL on single digit defense budget aid.



Bakhmut - Soledar front speak for themselves.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Dima Vorobiev


I know propaganda. I give you the insight.




www.quora.com





*After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia became a dictatorship again. What should've been done differently so that Russia could've become a democracy like the United States?*
“After the collapse of the Soviet Union, what should've been done differently so that Russia could've become a democracy?”
Nothing.
Three reasons, mainly.
*1. No land for democracy*
Unlike some other territories in the former Soviet block, like the Baltics and Poland, we in Russia never had a previous experience of popular rule. We simply have no reference frame. In our neck of the woods, it’s the opposite. Everything we associate with national triumphs, like winning a world war, space exploration, or conquest of Crimea, was delivered by brutal dictatorships.
As they say, Russian soil hates invaders’ boots, asphalted roads, and free elections.
*2. No benign occupier*
You may point to countries such as Japan and South Korea. From brutal autocracies, during the cold war they suddenly metamorphosed into a showcase for liberal democracy.
The difference between them and us was the Americans who took the reins. It was a benign foreign force that not only wrote a rule book for them but had the muscle and determination to enforce it.
This wasn’t easy. The Americans tried to replicate the success in Afghanistan and Iraq. They threw much more money there on the task than in East Asia after the war, to ridiculously little effect. Turns out, soil rejects free elections not only in Russia.
*3. No middle class*
The default state of matter in the world is not light and warmth but rather cold darkness. Similarly, non-democracy is the default state of human societies. Liberal democracy is rare. It’s hard, 24/7/365 work. And someone needs to do that work.
The middle class are the only people that are able to do that. Not sure they always will. Our middle class is overwhelmingly those who are employed by the State or live off government contracts. And for them, Yeltsin’s and Putin’s authoritarianism offer more benefits than disadvantages. This situation looks to be lasting for another generation or two.
Below, art by Alexéy Yegórov that nicely illustrates how power works through the lens of a regular Russian commoner.
The small creature at the bottom is a regular Russian. The fat creature above him is his boss. The boss holds for him a lifeline that connects them both to the celestial body of all-encompassing State power. Any attempt at horizontal self-organization against the will of the boss or the State threatens to sever this lifeline. Then, the poor little creature will stand exposed, defenseless, alone against the elements and the vultures circling right above.
This is why everyone in our neck of the woods—from a single mother in deep provinces to a minister in Putin’s government—confronted with the question, “Why don’t you try and change that rotten system?” would always answer: “Get real, dude. There’s nothing in the world I can do about it anyway!”





Picture (c) Alexéy Yegórov

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## kingQamaR

No other Nato ally has supplied Ukraine with modern Main Battle Tanks because the most suitable tanks that can be sourced are German tanks. British Challenger 2’s had a limited production run and as such are in low supply. American Abrams tanks are made for Us supply lines and require huge massive amounts of jet fuel and a hoard of jet mechanics. German leopards 2’s are readily available in quantities, run on Diesel and can be replaced within a reasonable timeline. I guess we could look to the french , but ….I mean. They’re like cats. They do what they want, when they want. Maybe they’ll help, maybe they’ll just sit down and lick their @%%. Who knows? German leopards 2’s are really the only sane option.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611848247185645568

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> The warzone has done a number of interesting articles on the new IFVs and Sparrow missiles going to Ukraine. Worth a read for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Meet All The Heavily Armored Western Combat Vehicles Ukraine Is Getting
> 
> 
> We break down the types of potent armor Ukraine is suddenly getting from it’s western allies.
> 
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> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sea Sparrow RIM-7 Surface-To-Air Missiles Are Headed To Ukraine
> 
> 
> The RIM-7 Sea Sparrow will be paired with Soviet-era Buk launchers and radar systems in a bizarre but potentially much needed mash-up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
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> 
> This Is What Bradley Fighting Vehicles Will Bring To The Fight In Ukraine (Updated)
> 
> 
> With an initial batch of M2 Bradleys now slated for Ukraine, we dive into what impact these iconic vehicles could have on the battlefield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com


What the new IFV come into play is not just mere firepower. But it also mean a deviation of the way Ukraine conduct warfare. Because these IFV are designed for deep penetration (like 73 Easting type attack) and act as scout but at the same time have enough firepower and armour to survive a frontal strike. In the west we call those ops "Recon in Force" which is a part of shock and awe technique.

Basically we ram these vehicle into the frontline and quickly exploit the gap between the frontline. Which mean Russia now need to prepare this kind of new war, if I have to guess, this move is to put more stress on the Russian side.

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## Reashot Xigwin

This is what you do when you're totally winning by the way. 









Russia disguising fuel trucks as piles of wood to avoid Ukrainian bombs


The camouflaging attempt is to counter major losses inflicted by Ukraine as Kremlin struggles to secure fuel supply lines while under attack




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> No other Nato ally has supplied Ukraine with modern Main Battle Tanks because the most suitable tanks that can be sourced are German tanks. British Challenger 2’s had a limited production run and as such are in low supply. American Abrams tanks are made for Us supply lines and require huge massive amounts of jet fuel and a hoard of jet mechanics. German leopards 2’s are readily available in quantities, run on Diesel and can be replaced within a reasonable timeline. I guess we could look to the french , but ….I mean. They’re like cats. They do what they want, when they want. Maybe they’ll help, maybe they’ll just sit down and lick their @%%. Who knows? German leopards 2’s are really the only sane option.


Abrams runs on everything, not just jet fuel, you can run diesel with Abrams, all you need is a converter in the fueling system, which I would imagine the US will supply and install them if and when they decided to give them to Ukraine. 

maintenance part, yes, I agree with you, that's probably why US still unwilling to give them to Ukraine. They are quite advance and require a certain level of knowledge to fix that, so if they really do transfer these article to Ukraine, I would imagine they will set up repair shop close to Poland border or establish shop in Ukraine staffed by contractor.

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## Reashot Xigwin

aziqbal said:


> this is sick and this is just sad they are still someones son
> 
> Russia is just throwing men into the death
> 
> over the years how many men has Russia lost ?
> 
> in WWII how many Russians died ? it takes 18 years to make a man
> 
> how many more will die, throwing men at at war like they are chickens
> 
> well I think if they were chickens they would have better chance
> 
> its just like slaughtering a lamb



My argument to that is that seeing dead Russian is funny. 

Also less rapists, looters & murderers running around in Ukraine.


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russians are gonna come back to Kherson and the South once they fully liberate Donbass region.


Sure. “Just after the next town!” Right?
It will not happen.

And even so…geopolitically russia has lost ukraine:








Putin’s self-defeating invasion turns southern Ukrainians away from Russia


Putin framed his Ukraine invasion as a crusade to rescue Russian-speaking Ukrainians but polling data indicates that the war has turned traditionally Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine decisively against the Kremlin.




www.atlanticcouncil.org





From a small minority preferring eu ties to a vast majority and great hatred for russia. 

Kazachstan is falling away from russian control as well. 




Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That is what you need to understand "khaniis" boy.



Your awfully pre-occupied with these things and thinking about “that lifestyle” there buddy. 

Coincidence? 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Bakhmut - Soledar front speak for themselves.


A lot of dead wagners? 

I see no difference from severodonetsk which you claim would slell the end for AFU as well.

anyway…bradleys and later perhaps leopolds for next spring/summer. Interesting times!

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## The SC

Situation might be dangerous for the Eastern Ukrainian army..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611869927400681473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611849559558483969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611804223888588800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611875201595363328

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## The SC

Bakhmut
The situation is still difficult on the southern approaches to Bakhmut, which is very important in Solidar
The Ukrainian Armed Forces are holding the remnants of Opetny and Bydgorodny, preventing them from breaking through to Klichevka
Unfortunately, the enemy's maneuver to the east of Solidar was successful and worsened the position of the armed forces in the entire direction..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611814991375618052

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611807981170999297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611750797951262720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611704500972036096

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## Reashot Xigwin

The joke just write itself

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611772695791931392

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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611480433979711488


Unless NATO beefs up support even more.


----------



## The SC

Ukraine's ambassador to London:
We're losing people left and right. We don't announce the number of dead military or civilians, but you can imagine the numbers are huge ..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611723681272664156

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611704500972036096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611704775418040321
The Wall Street Journal quoted Slomir Debski, director of the Polish Institute of International Relations:
Poland intends to transfer German Leopard tanks to Ukraine after Warsaw received equipment from South Korea and the USA to replace them.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611678374447009792

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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> There is an Islamic prophesy confirming it.



Putin's army, too, relies on lots of Orthodox prophesies.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: GRAPHIC - Killed Ukrainian soldiers from the 518th Battalion of the 1st Separate Special Forces Brigade who refused to surrender during a Russian assault on their positions





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611826697975873541

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## Stranagor

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Sheltering the poor is unlikely to be a federal thing. It is the responsibility of each state. Putin has much more control, being a dictatorship.



I think Hassan is talking about the cold wave deaths in the US. A milder cold wave claimed 17 people in Japan. Cold waves kill everywhere, unfortunately. 

Hassan mistakes a natural disasters for man-made disaster served by Putin.


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> the problem is GEPARD and NASAM proven ineffective , NATO need to send more potent air defense and they refrained to do so till today only old systems



Umm, the attack drawn down by roughly 80% is "proven ineffective"? 

Again, do me a favor, go back and find footage of Russian Drone/MIssile Strike footage before and after Gepard and NASAM and IRIS-T put into service, and compare what it was and what it is now. 

Now that the US and Germany also giving them Patriot and more NASAM. I would like to hear what's your definition of "Ineffective"

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## Stranagor

Putin praises Russian Orthodox Church for backing troops in Ukraine


Moscow issued Vladimir Putin's message after he attended an Orthodox Christmas Eve service on his own inside a Kremlin cathedral rather than joining other worshippers in a public celebration.




www.reuters.com





Putin praises Russian Orthodox Church for backing troops in Ukraine


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611901218162413571


----------



## That Guy

Analysis of what's going on in Bakhmut/Soledar area. Basically, the information coming outta Russian sources are almost all BS. The Russians do not control most of Soledar, and have mostly been pushed back.

_



_

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> Umm, the attack drawn down by roughly 80% is "proven ineffective"?
> 
> Again, do me a favor, go back and find footage of Russian Drone/MIssile Strike footage before and after Gepard and NASAM and IRIS-T put into service, and compare what it was and what it is now.
> 
> Now that the US and Germany also giving them Patriot and more NASAM. I would like to hear what's your definition of "Ineffective"





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611868752127332352
Both Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and former Pentagon chief Robert Gates are conforming things don't look good for Ukrainians.

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## Reashot Xigwin

funny video of russian dead and wounded. Watch till the end to see something hilarious. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611553254776897537


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Stranagor said:


> I think Hassan is talking about the cold wave deaths in the US. A milder cold wave claimed 17 people in Japan. Cold waves kill everywhere, unfortunately.
> 
> Hassan mistakes a natural disasters for man-made disaster served by Putin.



Which Hassan are you talking about? If you were referring to me, I didn't say anything about natural or man-made distasters. Perhaps it is time you visit an ophthalmologist or optometrist.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609972927117594624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611918347154886656

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611450663321612288

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## BHAN85

Stranagor said:


> Putin's army, too, relies on lots of Orthodox prophesies.


A clear sign of mental illness, think that God is on your side.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Empire racket: US starts proxy war with Russia,



~


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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> does Ukraine have 8000 personnel trained in using of Leopard 2 , ready to man those tanks ? or they will come with crew ?
> 
> 
> Russia didn't do a 180 degree turn back when they bought from N. Korea .
> a certain country did a U-Turn on its stand against Venezuela


Not a problem at all. Ukraine has very high percentage of college and university graduates. they are comparable to western populations. Ukraine is a different league than Russia.

It says Ukraine army would begin training in the US and Germany immediately. they would be able to operate the new infantry tanks by spring. By then 50 Bratley, 40 Marder will be delivered. Then huge amount of other weaponry, RC10 light tank, Paladin, Patriots, etc. Perfect moment for the spring offensive against the Russian invasion army.


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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Not a problem at all. Ukraine has very high percentage of college and university graduates. they are comparable to western populations. Ukraine is a different league than Russia.


Just like Moscow.

Ukraine is Russian people with different name.

But Russia as state is a muliethnical state, it's not only ruski people.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611922577919823872

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> Just like Moscow.
> 
> Ukraine is Russian people with different name.
> 
> But Russia as state is a muliethnical state, it's not only ruski people.


Yes like Moscow and St. Petersburg
The rest of Russia can be ignored.
Ukraine people are very similar in culture and custom to Western Europe they can be easily integrated. That’s why they lean on the west, not on majority cultural primitive Russians.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611843389992869890

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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Yes like Moscow and St. Petersburg
> The rest of Russia can be ignored.
> Ukraine people are very similar in culture and custom to Western Europe they can be easily integrated.


You see Ukraine and Russian people and you can't see differences between, they are exactly equal, the same physically, mentally and culturally.

Western propaganda presenting Ukrainians as saints and Russian as devils is ridiculous.

Even more it's ridiculous when they try to identify Ukrainian people with West European people.

We are different from Ukrainain, but Ukrainian are exactly the same than Russian.

But American propaganda lie machine is working hard. They need to West European feel identified with the Ukrainian.

It's what Soros call Reflexivity. Dumbshit West European must feel that Ukraine war is a war against them, and that's way to make in the future a real war in West Europe against Russia.






Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> You see Ukraine and Russian people and you can't see differences between, they are exactly equal, the same physically, mentally and culturally.
> 
> Western propaganda presenting Ukrainians as saints and Russian as devils is ridiculous.
> 
> Even more it's ridiculous when they try to identify Ukrainian people with West European people.
> 
> We are different from Ukrainain, but Ukrainian are exactly the same than Russian.
> 
> But American propaganda lie machine is working hard. They need to West European feel identified with the Ukrainian.
> 
> It's what Soros call Reflexivity. Dumbshit West European must feel that Ukraine war is a war against them, and that's way to make in the future a real war in West Europe against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com


You don’t understand. It’s not about facial thing. It’s about sharing the same view or not. Chinese and Japanese look same same but they are so different like day and night as we Viet people say it. Don’t try to put both groups in the same room.


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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> You don’t understand. It’s not about facial thing. Chinese and Japanese look same same but they are so different like day and night as we Viet people say it.


It's propaganda thing.

Soros reflexivity to make a war in West Europe against Russia, it's coming, sit, wait and watch.

That's all.

Ukrainian has common past with Russia and nothing in common with West Europe.

BTW Han Chinese and Japanese doesnt look the same physically.

Manchu people reminds me something Japanese, but Han Chinese certainly not.


----------



## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611868752127332352
> Both Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and former Pentagon chief Robert Gates are conforming things don't look good for Ukrainians.


Key word "Former"

And if you really read the article, they didn't say things don't look good for the Ukrainian, they said Russia will drag this war on unless US unconditionally support. 

Technically this war is in a stalemate, which is a common fact, which mean this war is going to drag on, and this *WILL NOT BE GOOD FOR BOTH SIDE. *

That is what the 2 were talking about.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611645224039714817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611846099823730688

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> It's propaganda thing.
> 
> Soros reflexivity to make a war in West Europe against Russia, it's coming, sit, wait and watch.
> 
> That's all.
> 
> Ukrainian has common past with Russia and nothing in common with West Europe.
> 
> BTW Han Chinese and Japanese doesnt look the same physically.
> 
> Manchu people reminds me something Japanese, but Han Chinese certainly not.


You are mistaken. It’s the opposite. Russia wages war against Ukraine and the west. Putin put the ultimatums in writing just days before invasion of Ukraine. When the US and NATO refused the ultimatums everybody here knew the war is coming.

Soros is Jewish they are god chosen people what do you expect?

Sure, if I follow his advices in his books I would become billionaire.


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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> It's propaganda thing.
> 
> Soros reflexivity to make a war in West Europe against Russia, it's coming, sit, wait and watch.
> 
> That's all.
> 
> Ukrainian has common past with Russia and nothing in common with West Europe.
> 
> BTW Han Chinese and Japanese doesnt look the same physically.
> 
> Manchu people reminds me something Japanese, but Han Chinese certainly not.


You don’t understand. Han is a cultural concept it’s about how you act and belief, not race. Viet people are han Viet. That’s why we call China as northern country Vietnam as southern country. “nam” means southern.
We are off topic.

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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Budgets in the US are decided by Congress and not the President.
> Sheltering the poor is unlikely to be a federal thing. It is the responsibility of each state. Putin has much more control, being a dictatorship.


as if he has no money for emergencies or if Russia budget must not be approved by parliament



jhungary said:


> Umm, the attack drawn down by roughly 80% is "proven ineffective"?
> 
> Again, do me a favor, go back and find footage of Russian Drone/MIssile Strike footage before and after Gepard and NASAM and IRIS-T put into service, and compare what it was and what it is now.
> 
> Now that the US and Germany also giving them Patriot and more NASAM. I would like to hear what's your definition of "Ineffective"


interestingly still the power grid is down


----------



## BHAN85

Viet said:


> You are mistaken. It’s the opposite. Russia wages war against Ukraine and the west. Putin put the ultimatums in writing just days before invasion of Ukraine. When the US and NATO refused the ultimatums everybody here knew the war is coming.
> 
> Soros is Jewish they are god chosen people what do you expect?
> 
> Sure, if I follow his advices in his books I would become billionaire.


Like Spaniard I can say, we have nothing in common with Ukrainian people.

But Spanish massmedia treatment of Ukraine war and official statements of Spanish state is like it was a war against us.


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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> Like Spaniard I can say, we have nothing in common with Ukrainian people.
> 
> But Spanish massmedia treatment of Ukraine war and official statements of Spanish state is like it was a war against us.


You are naive. Putin is a hooligan. He seeks greatness for himself and for Russia. he wants to change the status quote, he wants to destroy the EU (Merkel says it).


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## Soldier35

The commander of a tank platoon of Russian T-80 tanks spoke about combat work in Ukraine with mobilized servicemen.






Ukrainian servicemen published a video of an attempt to leave the caponier of an armored personnel carrier M113. The video shows an American M113A1 armored personnel carrier of the Ukrainian army. This modification of the armored vehicle has been produced since 1964 and is equipped with a 6V-53 Detroit Diesel diesel engine with an HP 215 power.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Which Hassan are you talking about? If you were referring to me, I didn't say anything about natural or man-made distasters. Perhaps it is time you visit an ophthalmologist or optometrist.


It was Hack-Hook, but I can understand why he assumed it came from You.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> as if he has no money for emergencies or if Russia budget must not be approved by parliament
> 
> 
> interestingly still the power grid is down


A snowstorm is something you prepare for in advance, which makes it a state issue.


----------



## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> leopard-2 latest model or Abram export version . i think its a no brainier.
> by the way you think how long an m60 can survive there even if its as upgraded as Turkish m60s


Depends on what they did to it. ERA, thicker armor, APS, separate ammo bustle compartment from crew, etc. If it was just basic M60, wouldn't last long.


----------



## khansaheeb

BHAN85 said:


> You see Ukraine and Russian people and you can't see differences between, they are exactly equal, the same physically, mentally and culturally.
> 
> Western propaganda presenting Ukrainians as saints and Russian as devils is ridiculous.
> 
> Even more it's ridiculous when they try to identify Ukrainian people with West European people.
> 
> We are different from Ukrainain, but Ukrainian are exactly the same than Russian.
> 
> But American propaganda lie machine is working hard. They need to West European feel identified with the Ukrainian.
> 
> It's what Soros call Reflexivity. Dumbshit West European must feel that Ukraine war is a war against them, and that's way to make in the future a real war in West Europe against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com


You can tell they are same people by putting a bottle of Vodka in front of them. Yu know what will happen next.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> if you ask me, the West should have start rebuilding Ukrainian weapon manufacturer capability in Western Ukraine or Central Ukraine now, it's a lot better for Ukraine to make their own stuff and use it on this war. This is going to be better and quicker than waiting on the West to send them stuff.
> 
> All they need is to put a lot of SAM in the area so it will make it safe from Russian Air attack.


Well they have a couple of options.
Option 1: Build a large factory as you said somewhere in Western or Central Ukraine far from Belarus/Russian borders and hope the Russians don't fire everything at it even with heavy air defense protecting it. Pretty much putting all their eggs in one basket. Could have the factory in some middle of unknown town or village in western Ukraine or in the Carpathian mountains near Romanian and Slovakian border with towns and villages there as well for mountain protection along with air defense.
Option 2: Build smaller multiple hidden factories spread around in small towns. Also have trucks and trailers coming into the factory to pick up the finished tanks at night and leave. Keeping it cover from prying eyes instead of tanks in parking areas. Don't know if they have enough air defense to cover the whole areas of the factories. Unless they have air defense wall. 
Option 3: Best one IMO, have a tank factory in Poland run by the Ukrainians and transport it across the border, Ukrainian workers can be collaborating with the Poles as well even train the Ukrainian refugees to help the war effort. In post war they can move back into Ukraine afterwards. I believe they can use the facilities that were meant for repairing Polish T72 tanks. Or start from scratch in another real estate.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> You are naive. Putin is a hooligan. He seeks greatness for himself and for Russia. he wants to change the status quote, he wants to destroy the EU (Merkel says it).


That will be a self accomplished prophecy.

It was not true before Ukraine war.

But it will be true next years.

USA doesnt need EU richness, world can't afford current energy and raw materials waste.

They attempted a color revolution in Catalonia 2017, to burn europe in a separatist spring, they failed, and then they increased provocations from Kyiv puppet to Moscow, they success. It doesnt matter if the fire start in West or East europe, but the better for American interests is whole europe burning.

EU broke up economic relations with Russia.
So a Russia first strike against Germany was a crazy idea one year ago, but each day is a more likely thing.

It's funny see European slave puppets working hard in their future self destruction.



khansaheeb said:


> You can tell they are same people by putting a bottle of Vodka in front of them. Yu know what will happen next.



It can be understood due to cold weather.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> Depends on what they did to it. ERA, thicker armor, APS, separate ammo bustle compartment from crew, etc. If it was just basic M60, wouldn't last long.


do you believe it can upgrade to be better than a new T-72 ? (with what is available and at reasonable cost and time)



Oldman1 said:


> Option 3: Best one IMO, have a tank factory in Poland run by the Ukrainians and transport it across the border, Ukrainian workers can be collaborating with the Poles as well even train the Ukrainian refugees to help the war effort. In post war they can move back into Ukraine afterwards. I believe they can use the facilities that were meant for repairing Polish T72 tanks. Or start from scratch in another real estate.


that option , wonder if NATO go in war with Russia if Russia target such factory ?


----------



## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> do you believe it can upgrade to be better than a new T-72 ? (with what is available and at reasonable cost and time)


I believe so. With its 120mm gun and upgraded armor and sensors to see the T-72 first and kill it. 


Hack-Hook said:


> that option , wonder if NATO go in war with Russia if Russia target such factory ?


They will bomb the Russians in Ukraine to death because that is Article 5 right there.


----------



## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611868752127332352
> Both Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and former Pentagon chief Robert Gates are conforming things don't look good for Ukrainians.



If Russia had free press and freedom of opinion, there would be similar opposition voices emerging from there, as well. 

Lack of alternative voices in Russia does not mean all is lush and green over there. It just means Russians do not enjoy a basic human right. 

About dependency on Western weapons, that's the repetition of the obvious. 

Isn't Russia dependent on Iran, North Korea, China and India to run both its economy and the war?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> I believe so. With its 120mm gun and upgraded armor and sensors to see the T-72 first and kill it.


is it possible ? after all its the engine *Continental AVDS-1790-2 V12, air-cooled twin-turbo diesel engine*. 750 bhp (560 kW) Power/weight. how much armor is feasible for it , will the armor become more robust than a modern T-72b3m have Relkit rewactive armor , a V-92S2F 1,130 hp (840 kW) , have guided missiles , have thicker armor than those m60 and still is a death trap that won't last against , any top attack or lateral attack by last generation or frontal attack by modern ATGM


----------



## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> A clear sign of mental illness, think that God is on your side.



Just check out Russian media. It's filled with religious propaganda, absolutist portrayal of good versus evil, pro versus antichrist, and all that.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Abrams runs on everything, not just jet fuel, you can run diesel with Abrams, all you need is a converter in the fueling system, which I would imagine the US will supply and install them if and when they decided to give them to Ukraine.
> 
> maintenance part, yes, I agree with you, that's probably why US still unwilling to give them to Ukraine. They are quite advance and require a certain level of knowledge to fix that, so if they really do transfer these article to Ukraine, I would imagine they will set up repair shop close to Poland border or establish shop in Ukraine staffed by contractor.


From what I'm reading by rumors or officially, many of the countries with Leopard 2s are will to give them to Ukraine but only with Germany's blessing. And Germany so far has said it was an escalation since tanks are considered in their view as offensive weaponry which is dumb considering they sent M270s and and PZH2000s and even Marders which can be offensive weaponry and Ukraine is only interested in pushing the Russians out and regaining territory. Not heading towards Moscow with the Leopard tanks! I think they are just waiting for U.S. to take the plunge or lead against any Russian response. Now Germany sending Marders is very promising, which I think they did it because the U.S. and France were willing to send in their IFVs at the same time. Now obviously we don't have Leos or Russian tanks to donate. But if its possible to send in M60s and more Bradleys and M113s along with more M109s SPGs and M198 tow howitzers, maybe it could persuade Germany to allow other countries to send in Leopard 2s since obviously diesel engines but they can be repaired close to home since there are repair facilities all over Europe especially those bordering Ukraine.



Hack-Hook said:


> is it possible ? after all its the engine *Continental AVDS-1790-2 V12, air-cooled twin-turbo diesel engine*. 750 bhp (560 kW) Power/weight. how much armor is feasible for it , will the armor become more robust than a modern T-72b3m have Relkit rewactive armor , a V-92S2F 1,130 hp (840 kW) , have guided missiles , have thicker armor than those m60 and still is a death trap that won't last against , any top attack or lateral attack by last generation or frontal attack by modern ATGM


Even the most modern tanks have weak armor on the top. Hence why they have APS for handle such a threat. Even Israel can only put so much armor on their tanks.


----------



## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611922577919823872



Kadyrov talking about money laundering? That's like the master thief reporting a petty crime.

Oldies but goodies:









Chechen Leader Kadyrov Says His Underage Children Earn More Than Putin


Chechen dictator Ramzan Kadyrov reportedly earned more than Russian President Vladimir Putin last year, while his two children took home thousand-dollar incomes.Two of Kadyrov's twelve children earned more than 9.9 million rubles ($176,000) last year, according to the politician's latest income...




www.themoscowtimes.com







Viet said:


> Yes like Moscow and St. Petersburg
> The rest of Russia can be ignored.
> Ukraine people are very similar in culture and custom to Western Europe they can be easily integrated. That’s why they lean on the west, not on majority cultural primitive Russians.



They are much less Russian than they were before the war. US failed in nation building in Afghanistan, Russia has succeeded in Ukraine even though that was not the intention.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> You see Ukraine and Russian people and you can't see differences between, they are exactly equal, the same physically, mentally and culturally.
> 
> Western propaganda presenting Ukrainians as saints and Russian as devils is ridiculous.
> 
> Even more it's ridiculous when they try to identify Ukrainian people with West European people.
> 
> We are different from Ukrainain, but Ukrainian are exactly the same than Russian.
> 
> But American propaganda lie machine is working hard. They need to West European feel identified with the Ukrainian.
> 
> It's what Soros call Reflexivity. Dumbshit West European must feel that Ukraine war is a war against them, and that's way to make in the future a real war in West Europe against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com



Obviously, Ukrainian people do not feel like Russian. Otherwise, nothing could compel them to engage in a bloody war to protect their identity. It is not something one can impose. In fact, the war has hardened that identity. They now have a cause to rally around and a basis to build distinct identity. This is not a good or bad thing, it is just history unfolding.

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> That will be a self accomplished prophecy.
> 
> It was not true before Ukraine war.
> 
> But it will be true next years.
> 
> USA doesnt need EU richness, world can't afford current energy and raw materials waste.
> 
> They attempted a color revolution in Catalonia 2017, to burn europe in a separatist spring, they failed, and then they increased provocations from Kyiv puppet to Moscow, they success. It doesnt matter if the fire start in West or East europe, but the better for American interests is whole europe burning.
> 
> EU broke up economic relations with Russia.
> So a Russia first strike against Germany was a crazy idea one year ago, but each day is a more likely thing.
> 
> It's funny see European slave puppets working hard in their future self destruction.
> 
> 
> 
> It can be understood due to cold weather.


Putin wants to destroy the EU. Why should anyone in the EU love him? We are not mad. If a thief wants to steal your property killing your family will you love him? He begins the war. Nobody puts a gun on his head to force him to begin the war. Almost all European gov chiefs visited him in Moscow to beg him not to start the war. Don’t blame other.


----------



## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> Putin wants to destroy the EU. Why should anyone in the EU love him? We are not mad. He begins the war. Nobody puts a gun on his head to force him to begin the war. Almost all European gov chiefs visited him in Moscow to beg him not to start the war. Don’t blame other.


Correction he did not "begin" the war but joined it when his proxies started losing in Ukraine.


----------



## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> Like Spaniard I can say, we have nothing in common with Ukrainian people.
> 
> But Spanish massmedia treatment of Ukraine war and official statements of Spanish state is like it was a war against us.



Strategically, it is a war against Europe. Putin is a classical case of Eastern despot with militaristic/colonial mindset toward the West and Western values - regardless we view Western values as admirable or not.


----------



## BHAN85

Stranagor said:


> Strategically, it is a war against Europe. Putin is a classical case of Eastern despot with militaristic/colonial mindset toward the West and Western values - regardless we view Western values as admirable or not.


It's a feedback thing, maybe in the beginning it was not against europe, but it will end that way.

If Germany break up economic relations with Russia, then one day it will be profitable for Russia a first nuclear strike against Germany, and then: unconditional surrender and this stupid movie will over.

If West Europe states treat Ukraine war as a war against them and give weapons to Ukraine, it will end become a real Russia war against West Europe, a self fulfilled prophecy.



Viet said:


> Putin wants to destroy the EU. Why should anyone in the EU love him? We are not mad. If a thief wants to steal your property killing your family will you love him? He begins the war. Nobody puts a gun on his head to force him to begin the war. Almost all European gov chiefs visited him in Moscow to beg him not to start the war. Don’t blame other.


Keep EU/Russia economic relations keep the peace.

And break up, set up the future war.



Stranagor said:


> Obviously, Ukrainian people do not feel like Russian. Otherwise, nothing could compel them to engage in a bloody war to protect their identity. It is not something one can impose. In fact, the war has hardened that identity. They now have a cause to rally around and a basis to build distinct identity. This is not a good or bad think, it is just history.


Ukraine/Russia problem is like Catalonia/Spain problem.

Ukraine/Catalonia people are the same than Russian/Spanish people, but they think they are special and different because his language has a couple of differences.

They dont feel identified, but they are the same.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612032661777965058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612010668546310144


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611890317854216197

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611945426357489664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611969987824218112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612010569191817218

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611922577919823872



Another way of saying "i am getting my *** whooped with weapons supplies - please stop so that my boys can start making tiktok video's again ...."

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Looks like the US Congress will block aid to Zelensky regime after Kevin McCarthy was elected as the Speaker of the House. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611951445485535232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611952572348174337


----------



## The SC

Soledar Front Quick Update..*The Russian are attacking everywhere,,*​*



*

Reactions: Love Love:
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## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> Ukraine/Russia problem is like Catalonia/Spain problem.
> 
> Ukraine/Catalonia people are the same than Russian/Spanish people, but they think they are special and different because his language has a couple of differences.
> 
> They dont feel identified, but they are the same.


Don't know much about Spanish and Catalonia, but if you say Ukrainian and Russian are the same people, even before the war in Ukraine, you WILL get hit in the face (You will probably be shot now if you say that to an Ukrainian).

They are nothing alike except both are being Slavic (they are different Slavic group by the way) and both are orthodox. It's like saying Greek or Serbian are the same as Russian

If you know why both President of Russia and President of Ukraine have the *SAME FIRST NAME*, but they are spelt differently, you will know the different.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ali_Baba said:


> Another way of saying "i am getting my *** whooped with weapons supplies - please stop so that my boys can start making tiktok video's again ...."





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611848151786192896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612057584357212163

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Why Russia wants Bakhmut. Big underground cities can hold tanks and troops, and 100 miles of tunnels..​

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611801936680079360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611787129452912640


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Shooting down their own planes. No coordination whatsoever between Ukrainian air force and the Ukrainian air defense systems.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612030262078017538

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> From what I'm reading by rumors or officially, many of the countries with Leopard 2s are will to give them to Ukraine but only with Germany's blessing. And Germany so far has said it was an escalation since tanks are considered in their view as offensive weaponry which is dumb considering they sent M270s and and PZH2000s and even Marders which can be offensive weaponry and Ukraine is only interested in pushing the Russians out and regaining territory. Not heading towards Moscow with the Leopard tanks! I think they are just waiting for U.S. to take the plunge or lead against any Russian response. Now Germany sending Marders is very promising, which I think they did it because the U.S. and France were willing to send in their IFVs at the same time. Now obviously we don't have Leos or Russian tanks to donate. But if its possible to send in M60s and more Bradleys and M113s along with more M109s SPGs and M198 tow howitzers, maybe it could persuade Germany to allow other countries to send in Leopard 2s since obviously diesel engines but they can be repaired close to home since there are repair facilities all over Europe especially those bordering Ukraine.
> 
> 
> Even the most modern tanks have weak armor on the top. Hence why they have APS for handle such a threat. Even Israel can only put so much armor on their tanks.


It's optics as usual. This is what Politician do.

The West can't be seen as unreasonable, you have to at some point believe that Putin will leave when he is seeing his advance stalled. We all know this is not going to happen. But if we don't ever gave Putin a way out. The world (Namely China and their camp) will always blame the West.

That's why the West never talked about transferring any tank to Ukraine. Because that would seen as an offensive gesture. Contrary to M270 or HIMARS, the only way you transfer tanks is to transfer a large quantity, usually be in hundreds if not thousand. I can give you 20 HIMARS and it will be of use some from or another, but if I give you 20 or even 50 tanks, that's pointless. 

Now, probably the west know that all bets are off, it's pointless to continue with their restrain, that's why I wrote that before a few days ago before this IFV deal gone thru, the West are going to increase what they are sending to Ukraine. It's just a no brainer.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> Key word "Former"
> 
> And if you really read the article, they didn't say things don't look good for the Ukrainian, they said Russia will drag this war on unless US unconditionally support.
> 
> Technically this war is in a stalemate, which is a common fact, which mean this war is going to drag on, and this *WILL NOT BE GOOD FOR BOTH SIDE. *
> 
> That is what the 2 were talking about.




Read the title and the controlling statement. It is pretty very obvious from their message they were talking about Ukraine. But of course you can believe in your fairy tales. 

Fyi, while being former officials, they still have their security clearance, can read the latest CIA, defense and state departments' analysts findings, and can still speak to their former subordinates and career civil servants and diplomats who tell them exactly the facts on the ground. It is not like they were former junior officer like you who was dishonorably discharged from the military and who has no security clearance. These were high-ranking neocons that we're talking about who led the Department of State, CIA, and the Pentagon.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Well they have a couple of options.
> Option 1: Build a large factory as you said somewhere in Western or Central Ukraine far from Belarus/Russian borders and hope the Russians don't fire everything at it even with heavy air defense protecting it. Pretty much putting all their eggs in one basket. Could have the factory in some middle of unknown town or village in western Ukraine or in the Carpathian mountains near Romanian and Slovakian border with towns and villages there as well for mountain protection along with air defense.
> Option 2: Build smaller multiple hidden factories spread around in small towns. Also have trucks and trailers coming into the factory to pick up the finished tanks at night and leave. Keeping it cover from prying eyes instead of tanks in parking areas. Don't know if they have enough air defense to cover the whole areas of the factories. Unless they have air defense wall.
> Option 3: Best one IMO, have a tank factory in Poland run by the Ukrainians and transport it across the border, Ukrainian workers can be collaborating with the Poles as well even train the Ukrainian refugees to help the war effort. In post war they can move back into Ukraine afterwards. I believe they can use the facilities that were meant for repairing Polish T72 tanks. Or start from scratch in another real estate.


I would say all three are going to be implemented. At this stage, it would be better off for the Ukrainian to invest in Poland Border region and turn out equipment from there. Then you migrate a smaller production back into Western Ukraine. And finally when Ukrainian frontline is stablised, you start building big manufacturer hubs back in Western Ukraine.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Stranagor said:


> If Russia had free press and freedom of opinion, there would be similar opposition voices emerging from there, as well.
> 
> Lack of alternative voices in Russia does not mean all is lush and green over there. It just means Russians do not enjoy a basic human right.
> 
> About dependency on Western weapons, that's the repetition of the obvious.
> 
> *Isn't Russia dependent on Iran, North Korea, China and India to run both its economy and the war?*



It is called trade. 

Besides, those $20,000 priced Iranian-provided Shaheed-136 and Shaheed-131 drones brought the entire infrastructure of Ukraine to its knees. They've depleted the Ukrainian air defense missiles includes the ones provided by the globohomo West. 

So it is not like Iranian and DPRK's weapons are not making difference; they're significantly shifting the ground to Russia's favor. 

China and India are huge countries, so trading them means Russia beats the Western-imposed sanctions.

Now, how about you pay attention to this? 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612042409440940033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612036655892041729

Reactions: Like Like:
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## yuba

aziqbal said:


> this is sick and this is just sad they are still someones son
> 
> Russia is just throwing men into the death
> 
> over the years how many men has Russia lost ?
> 
> in WWII how many Russians died ? it takes 18 years to make a man
> 
> how many more will die, throwing men at at war like they are chickens
> 
> well I think if they were chickens they would have better chance
> 
> its just like slaughtering a lamb


Its not the sons of those in power but like you said they someones son father brother for them its a lifetime of tears

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Read the title and the controlling statement. It is pretty very obvious from their message they were talking about Ukraine. But of course you can believe in your fairy tales.
> 
> Fyi, while being former officials, they still have their security clearance, can read the latest CIA, defense and state departments' analysts findings, and can still speak to their former subordinates and career civil servants and diplomats who tell them exactly the facts on the ground. It is not like they were former junior officer like you who was dishonorably discharged from the military and who has no security clearance. These were high-ranking neocons that we're talking about who led the Department of State, CIA, and the Pentagon.


Thats what you did, you read the title.

It said Russia is not going to surrender their ambition on Ukraine DESPITE ALL THEIR SET BACK. And the only way the West can end this stalemate is to supply enough weapon to Ukraine and push the Russian out.

The article said Russia *WILL* come back for another round, and then another round IF They cannot achieve their aim, and who knows if we help Ukraine to deal with Russia this, we will do it the next time. That's what the article said. But then I doubt you read beyond the "Time is not on Ukrainian Side"

And lol, I know more about the war than you, and I am not your buddy Scott Ritter I don't like little girls and I was not Dishonorably Discharged. I mean, if you like little girl like him, that's not my business.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

A Ukrainian government official went to Paris on new year's eve, perhaps was providing escort services to fellas there, of course all of it charged to Western-provided donor funds. 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611846889405648905
More like this official is saying if Zelensky and his wife are going around in Western capitals and spend people's money lavishly, why can't I do the same? That is what this official is essentially alluding to.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

khansaheeb said:


> Correction he did not "begin" the war but joined it when his proxies started losing in Ukraine.


Putin started the war in 2014 by occupying Crimea.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612027185044328448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612028571240878083


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> Thats what you did, you read the title.



The title and controlling statement do convey the essence of the paragraphs that follow.



jhungary said:


> It said Russia is not going to surrender their ambition on Ukraine DESPITE ALL THEIR SET BACK. And the only way the West can end this stalemate is to supply enough weapon to Ukraine and push the Russian out.
> 
> The article said Russia *WILL* come back for another round, and then another round IF They cannot achieve their aim, and who knows if we help Ukraine to deal with Russia this, we will do it the next time. That's what the article said. But then I doubt you read beyond the "Time is not on Ukrainian Side"



If anything, it shows the desperation and the panic on the Western elite's minds. This is their war afterall. They engineered it from the get-go. And this panic and wake-up call do reveal how the situation looks bleak for the Ukrainians. 

These former officials are also basically panicking that at the prospect of the West being defeated in Ukraine that is giving them nightmares.



jhungary said:


> And lol, I know more about the war than you, and I am not your buddy Scott Ritter I don't like little girls and I was not Dishonorably Discharged. I mean, if you like little girl like him, that's not my business.




Scott Ritter knows more about military and is more principled than you. I could careless what he did in his personal life.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Corax

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Putin started the war in 2014 by occupying Crimea.



Or it could be argued the US and Europe started the war when it supported the overthrow of the democratically elected government in Ukraine, supporting right wing neo-Nazi groups.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612035944055545856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612036629643886597

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612045282472267776


----------



## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The title and controlling statement do convey the essence of the paragraphs that follow.


So you are saying you HAD NOT read the article?



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If anything, it shows the desperation and the panic on the Western elite's minds. This is their war afterall. They engineered it from the get-go. And this panic and wake-up call do reveal how the situation looks bleak for the Ukrainians.
> 
> These former officials are also basically panicking that at the prospect of the West being defeated in Ukraine that is giving them nightmares.



Lol, sure, it wasn't the Ukrainian start drafting people off the street tho, It was the Russian. 



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Scott Ritter knows more about military and is more principled than you. I could careless what he did in his personal life.



In this war alone, I have made the following right prediction on this forum before it happens.

I foresee in March that Marupol is going to held on into May, it did. I am the first one here predicted correctly US is going to send HIMARS to Ukraine in May, I also correctly predicted Ukraine will attack Kupiansk first (which they did) and then I also is the one with that famous "Screen Cap" this incident and predict in September that Russia is going to lose Kherson. I also predicted how Ukrainian would attack Russian position in Kherson and leading its troop folded. 

Now tell me, what's your little girl liking pedo get right about his prediction? He predicted Ukraine is going to run out of stream, that did not happen. He predicted Ukraine will NOT be able to retake lost position, he was wrong about those 3 times, Ukraine took back Kharkiv, Kyiv and Kherson. Oh, and he predicted this war is going to end back in April. As the saying goes, how's that 10 days war in Ukraine going for Russia again??

LOL. He know more about military than me. That probably the joke of the year.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612076607526543360

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## Reashot Xigwin

Another banger from the ministry of propaganda

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611865416183201793


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Well turns out Putin what got them killed 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611857616447094786

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian hit 2 hostels full of Ukrainian soldiers with precision strikes in Kramatorsk. There were hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers killed and wounded.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612067079003471874

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612068582510182402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612098042475184130

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612079742936649732

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612079742936649732



not likely :









No sign of casualties at site of strikes Russia says killed hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers


The defense ministry said the strike was revenge for a Ukrainian attack on a Russian barracks in the Donetsk region in which at least 89 servicemen were killed. There was no immediate comment from Ukraine.




www.reuters.com

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Well turns out Putin what got them killed
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611857616447094786


Probably the most dumbest idea ever
Gathering the entire battalion of almost 1,000 men in a building and let them listening to Putin’s propaganda. As if not bad enough, the building was filled with high explosives. Well, at least the explosives served their purposes although they were destined for targets in Ukraine.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russian hit 2 hostels full of Ukrainian soldiers with precision strikes in Kramatorsk. There were hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers killed and wounded.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612067079003471874
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612068582510182402
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612098042475184130



LMAO stop with your BS please


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612100537838891017

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612070575219810304

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## Ali_Baba

Britain is losing the will to stand up to Putin


France, Germany and the US are sending tanks and armoured vehicles to Kyiv. And the British? The cheerleader seems to have lost her voice




www.telegraph.co.uk





>> Rushi Sunak has become more of a damp squip than I expected, and even more than Olaf S of Germany ...

A weak minded - directionless - soft bean counter is the best i can say ( his inability / desire to get the N.Ireland, and dumping of EU laws being "additional" prime examples .. )..

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

I wish Russia fails in this attempt to occupy Ukraine

It will be a huge morale boost to small countries who had to confront bigger enemies.

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## Raj-Hindustani

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> I wish Russia fails in this attempt to occupy Ukraine
> 
> It will be a huge morale boost to small countries who had to confront bigger enemies.



Yes, As Taiwan is against Chinese aggression. it is a good example to learn them since they are better equipped than ukraine.

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## TopGun786

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Yes, As Taiwan is against Chinese aggression. it is a good example to learn them since they are better equipped than ukraine.


Don't think so. Geography there is a lot different. 
And there will be little foreign help like NATO and US doing in case of Ukraine. 
Besides Taiwan is part of China as per UN.

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## Raj-Hindustani

TopGun786 said:


> Don't think so. Geography there is a lot different.
> And there will be little foreign help like NATO and US doing in case of Ukraine.
> Besides Taiwan is part of China as per UN.


UN is a useless organization.... who does follow if they passed anything or say anything!!

I don't think because it is just not about Taiwan but Taiwan Strait and South china sea..

It will be more disastrous for CHina as same like Russia if they will try such a thing with Taiwan........


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612079742936649732


“In response of the criminal attack”

So russia starts a war of aggression and annexes and ethnically cleanses part of ukraine. 
Ukraine fights back, including this artillery attack on what is basically a barrack of active invading soldiers in a warzone…

And it is “criminal” ??
The people you copy paste from twitter really are ridiculous.



TopGun786 said:


> Don't think so. Geography there is a lot different.
> And there will be little foreign help like NATO and US doing in case of Ukraine.
> Besides Taiwan is part of China as per UN.


Any amphibious invasion is no easy feat. Especially on the size of Taiwan.

Bombing from the mainland will also not “win hearts and minds”. So China needs either a total blockade or an amphibious landing, and for those to succeed, air and naval dominance.
In comes america with carrier strike groups….

Taiwan is an enormously risky move for the communist Party to take on militarily. 


If the West was weak/soft in response on Putins invasion of Ukraine…China might have felt more emboldened to try.

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## Vergennes

ZeGerman said:


> “In response of the criminal attack”
> 
> So russia starts a war of aggression and annexes and ethnically cleanses part of ukraine.
> Ukraine fights back, including this artillery attack on what is basically a barrack of active invading soldiers in a warzone…
> 
> And it is “criminal” ??
> The people you copy paste from twitter really are ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Any amphibious invasion is no easy feat. Especially on the size of Taiwan.
> 
> Bombing from the mainland will also not “win hearts and minds”. So China needs either a total blockade or an amphibious landing, and for those to succeed, air and naval dominance.
> In comes america with carrier strike groups….
> 
> Taiwan is an enormously risky move for the communist Party to take on militarily.
> 
> 
> If the West was weak/soft in response on Putins invasion of Ukraine…China might have felt more emboldened to try.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612100537838891017
Russians are claiming they have killed 700 Ukrainian soldiers while pictures from the site show an abandoned building and a hole in front of the building,showing the Russians totally missed it, just showing you how much Russian claims are BS but of course their bootlickers do not need more than that to masturbate on this.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612070575219810304



.

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## thetutle

Bosnian Serb leader awards Russian President Putin medal in absentia


Russian President Vladimir Putin was awarded in absentia by Bosnian Serb leader Milorad Dodik on Sunday, during a ceremony marking the Bosnian autonomous Serb Republic's national holiday.




www.reuters.com





The Serbian autonomous area of Bosnia gives Putin a medal of honour. hmmmmm


----------



## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Looks like the US Congress will block aid to Zelensky regime after Kevin McCarthy was elected as the Speaker of the House. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611951445485535232
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611952572348174337


If thats what your Russian handlers tell you , yes lets hope thats the basis that the Russians build their 2023 war plan: another false hope.

Republians have a majority of 10 votes only in Congress. Of which 20 Congressman are the type that are Putin lovers or at least against Ukraine if only for the fact that its going well for US and they want to do everything Biden. The other 200 republicans are all more mainstream focused more on fiscal policy then a significant departure from foreign policy. For this wetdream you forwarded to work, all 200 republicans would have to be in the same camp as the 10-20 that were blocking nomination.

Senate: every bill has passed with broad bi-partisan support. But hese



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The title and controlling statement do convey the essence of the paragraphs that follow.
> 
> 
> 
> If anything, it shows the desperation and the panic on the Western elite's minds. This is their war afterall. They engineered it from the get-go. And this panic and wake-up call do reveal how the situation looks bleak for the Ukrainians.
> 
> These former officials are also basically panicking that at the prospect of the West being defeated in Ukraine that is giving them nightmares.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Ritter knows more about military and is more principled than you. I could careless what he did in his personal life.


So like you , Putin's war plan was based on Scott Ritter being a credible person? Nice.



ZeGerman said:


> “In response of the criminal attack”
> 
> So russia starts a war of aggression and annexes and ethnically cleanses part of ukraine.
> Ukraine fights back, including this artillery attack on what is basically a barrack of active invading soldiers in a warzone…
> 
> And it is “criminal” ??
> The people you copy paste from twitter really are ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Any amphibious invasion is no easy feat. Especially on the size of Taiwan.
> 
> Bombing from the mainland will also not “win hearts and minds”. So China needs either a total blockade or an amphibious landing, and for those to succeed, air and naval dominance.
> In comes america with carrier strike groups….
> 
> Taiwan is an enormously risky move for the communist Party to take on militarily.
> 
> 
> If the West was weak/soft in response on Putins invasion of Ukraine…China might have felt more emboldened to try.


Amphibious landings are pretty much outdated because of their vulnerability to precision munitions much like parachuting troops en-masse. In Desert Storm, despite superior qualitative and quantitative advantage over Iraq, the US faked the idea of a sea assault on Kuwait to distract Iraqi army. They never had any intention to do it. This was when Iraq was fighting blind against the entire world essentially.

Imagine the lead time of Chinese ships/vessels/landing locations and the distance to be covered, I doubt Chinese subscribe to the WWII outdated doctrine that Russians seem to still following (in a ground war)


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> They are nothing alike except both are being Slavic (they are different Slavic group by the way) and both are orthodox. It's like saying Greek or Serbian are the same as Russian


Russians and ukranians are obviously very much alike. The closest people to each other. culturally, linguistically and racially. 

There is nothing wrong with that. Its just a fact.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Another banger from the ministry of propaganda
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611865416183201793


This is not propaganda, This is actually 100% accurate. Sad but true.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

hehehe 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612099890145804290
Germans are now refusing to join their army. LMAO 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612096165943599104

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612083316772962304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612081172980404231

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612075994894008321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612133243108888576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612132876136456197

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612161781417521152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612165580211228672

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Russians and ukranians are obviously very much alike. The closest people to each other. culturally, linguistically and racially.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with that. Its just a fact.
> 
> 
> This is not propaganda, This is actually 100% accurate. Sad but true.


Depends on what kind of Ukrainian you ask.

If you ask any Western Ukrainian, they will probably shot you now. If you ask any Ukrainian in the East, they will probably hit you in the face. 

I would say culturally there are some similarities, but linguistically and racially most likely not. Ukrainian can't read Russian if they had not learnt Russian, but they can read Serbian even if they had no prior knowledge. Racially, Russia is more metro than Ukrainian, Russian have a lot of different ethnicities, from Slavs to Chechen to Cossack to Buryat (Mongolian) to Siberian (Eskimo) to Russian Chinese, and of course, Rus. While most Ukrainian are either Slav or Cossack.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612059702875258882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612080212006649856

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612103245526364162

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> LMAO stop with your BS please
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612100537838891017


That’s for domestic consumption, Russia propaganda for Russia nationalists.
Where is Alexander Dugin? He must be very upset with his ideological son Vlad Putin.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612170342050549763

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612110907236126721


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> LMAO stop with your BS please
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612100537838891017




The words of the mercenary Patrick Jorgensen refutes your denial after the air force of Russian forces hit 2 hostels. LMAO 👇








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612133186347368448

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The words of the mercenary Patrick Jorgensen refutes your denial after the air force of Russian forces hit 2 hostels. LMAO 👇
> 
> View attachment 910332
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612133186347368448



So called mercenary from a twitter account that doesn't even exist nice try boy,even this tweet is so fake and grotesque. Meanwhile photos from the area show a big hole on the ground as we see how much precise are Russian weapons and an abandoned building, so much for the 700 Ukrainian soldiers killed. You just have to compare pictures from Kramatorsk to Makiivka and see where the real massacre is. Not even many Russian sources are believing it, but keep trying.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> So called mercenary from a twitter account that doesn't even exist nice try boy. Meanwhile photos from the area show a big hole on the ground as we see how much precise are Russian weapons and an abandoned building, so much for the 700 Ukrainian soldiers killed. You just have to compare pictures from Kramatorsk to Makiivka and see where the real massacre is. Not even many Russian sources are believing it, but keep trying.




That was a thermobaric attack, you bummer. Ukraine is only showing 2 holes. The attack was carried out with aleast 8 missile attacks. What happened to other missiles? That is the proof that the Ukrainians have something to hide.

The twitter profile was deleted after he found out how it spread throughout social media. Perhaps Ukrainian securities ordered him to take it down and he deleted his whole profile.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The words of the mercenary Patrick Jorgensen refutes your denial after the air force of Russian forces hit 2 hostels. LMAO 👇
> 
> View attachment 910332




Pathetic :



https://twitter.com/PatYorgi



Profile​
@PatYorgi

This account doesn’t exist
Try searching for another.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612132148298792960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612140018784698368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612177397171867661

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612148623604588544
Russian thermobaric weapons are mopping the Ukrainians to the floor. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612167506193711104

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## zectech

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611951445485535232

Russia Republicans have taken over the House and plan to take the whole of Washington in 2024/5. This should be a MAJOR wake up call to Europe to re-arm, have European arms industry to run 24/7 on full capacity.

Said Europe is alone in the fight with Russia Republicans poised to take Washington, got 7 gales of stupid laughter. Europe MUST re-arm. Europe will not be protected with US nukes with Russia Republican Trump in 2025. Europe must have nukes in numbers comparable to Russia. This is MAD, Putin wants to nuclear blackmail Europe. With Russia Republican /Trump in the White House and in Washington, Putin is going to believe nuclear blackmail could work against Europe. Russia Republicans are on the side of Russia winning and defeating Europe. Tucker and Trump want to see the EU in ruins and Russian flags waving in Europe. Europe needs nukes. Europe needs more heavy weapons than Russia. Europe can do so before Russia Republicans/Trump take the white house.

Europe cannot be dependent on Washington for defense.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

This is a thread busting the fake Western journalists who are assisting the Ukrainians to hide the massive blow that the Russian armed forces delivered against the Ukrainian forces in Kramatorsk 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612157906312433666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612157979691728900

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612158442533228545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612160035232022529

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612196590487277570

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612180409357418500

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612132148298792960
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612140018784698368
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612177397171867661


Lmao, you're citing Dawn as a legitimate source.

Hahahahahahhahahahaha!



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612148623604588544
> Russian thermobaric weapons are mopping the Ukrainians to the floor.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612167506193711104


Lmao, and? What are you and Russia gonna do about it?

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## zectech

The security of NATO Europe is not a concern for Washington. For Russia Republicans, these Tucker traitors are cheering for the victory and Russia and the defeat of the EU.






The cia Republicans went Qanon, went Trumper, because the deepstate hates the EU.









The Real Deep State Is Trump


How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom




newrepublic.com













Donald Trump is the QAnon president. And he's proud of it | Richard Wolffe


Under his leadership, and with his support, QAnon candidates like Marjorie Taylor Greene in Georgia are on a fast track to elected office




www.theguardian.com





No cia defense of Britain staying in the EU. mi6/cia looked the other way, as Tories went Qanon Brexit retard, backed by Putin. cia Pompeo and Trump and Tucker backed Brexit. Backed the planned weakening of the EU.









Putin’s Plot Against ‘Great’ Britain – And How He Got Away With It – Byline Times


Peter Jukes tracks Vladimir Putin’s long war against the West and the allies he has found in the pro-Brexit establishment in the plot to derail Britain




bylinetimes.com





The first US foe Trump named was not China or Iran. Trump named the EU.









"I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki


"I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe," President Trump tells CBS News




www.cbsnews.com





Trump wanted to use Brexit to hurt the EU, Russia Republican want Putin to win over Ukraine, threatening Europe.

Biden and Democrats knew Russia Republicans would block aid to Ukraine in 2023 as Political pundits predicted Russia Republicans to win the House. Yet gave only enough aid to Ukraine, not to crush Russia, to hold their own to drag this war into 2023. 20-something HIMARS, 200-300 artillery vs Russian 50K+ heavy weapons.

Washington is no friend of NATO. Trump/Russia Republicans wants to leave NATO.

NATO Europe needs to re-arm to defend Ukraine and the rest of Europe from Russian aggression.

*There will be no nukes from the USA to defend Europe from a Russian nuke strike with Russia Republicans in the white house.*


----------



## bobo6661

Vergennes said:


> LMAO @bobo6661


Ehh and his evidence is his *** i guess 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The words of the mercenary Patrick Jorgensen refutes your denial after the air force of Russian forces hit 2 hostels. LMAO 👇
> 
> View attachment 910332
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612133186347368448



That account does not exist

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## Mohsin A

Despite the BS propaganda the Western media is shoving down our throats, I have zero sympathy for Ukraine. They brought this upon themselves full well knowing the consequences of their actions and the rise on neo-nazism. The sooner Russia crushes the Ukrainian regime, the better. A regime that doesn't give a toss about its own people knowing that they're ready to fight to the last Ukrainian only to fulfill NATO's objectives.

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## Elvin

It doesn’t matter much which party is in power. US policy rarely changes because said policy is drafted by deep state policy makers and the intel community.

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## zectech

Elvin said:


> It doesn’t matter much which party is in power. US policy rarely changes because said policy is drafted by deep state policy makers and the intel community.


*The real Deepstate is Trump*









The Real Deep State Is Trump


How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom




newrepublic.com





The shift in Washington with cia Pompeo-Trump was take out competitor China and have Russia take out the EU.

It was once the endless wars in the Middle East. Neo-cons lost two elections for war on Iran, so the deepstate went with Qanon as the new base of the Republican Party because China was rising.

“Trump Has Done Everything He Can to Weaken the E.U.”​








"Trump Has Done Everything He Can to Weaken the E.U."


Sylvie Kauffmann (Young Leader 1998) was the correspondent for Le Monde in Washington D.C., then in New York, until 2001.




france-amerique.com





Donald Trump Declares The European Union A 'Foe'​CBS anchorman Jeff Glor had asked the president who he thought was the nation’s “biggest competitor” or “biggest foe.” Trump named the E.U. first.









Donald Trump Declares The European Union A 'Foe'


"In a trade sense, they’ve really taken advantage of us.”




www.huffpost.com





Europe did not sign onto the "get big bad China" warmongering. We did not join team brexit, team putin and team trump. Qanon Trumpers want Russia to win and EU to be destroyed, along with the ECB and euro. The Qanon crazy Russia Republicans control the House and are planning a return to anti-EU policy in the white house in 2025. Russia Republicans are the deepstate. Democrats are the keep the seat occupied until cia Republicans return to destroy Washington enemies.

To Trump, EU was the first foe named. Before Iran, China, North Korea, Assad, Venezuela.









Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède


Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède




www.theguardian.com





Qanon Russia Republicans want to stop backing Ukraine, which means, to Russia Republicans, Putin with enough of heavy weapons in storage could possibly win in Ukraine. A victory for Tucker/Trump and cronies in Washington.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612170814358536195

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612156072030093320

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612114691643375622

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## zectech

Elvin said:


> It doesn’t matter much which party is in power. US policy rarely changes because said policy is drafted by deep state policy makers and the intel community.



The UK deepstate and US deepstate are partners. The media in the UK reflect UK deepstate policy.

Here is how the UK media view the EU (top right):







Read the top right _"DON'T LET IT HAPPEN: EU boss Junker and his *cronies *want Corbyn to be Prime Minister"_

Uk media fearmongers to voters for Tories, by calling the EU leaders - cronies. UK media: "Don't vote for Corbyn, that would be crazy, the sinister organization of the EU likes Corbyn. Nuff said.".

These are the same UK media that shills for the corrupt British Royals.

Qanon Trumpers are the Faux News Agenda. And preach UK partnership and vilify the EU. The same Faux News that promoted the cia endless wars. UK media also vilifies the enemy of the UK deepstate - the EU. As you said, both parties Dems and Republicans. Tories and Labour are in on it. Corbyn wasn't, so the UK deepstate media demonized Corbyn. Notice how same as anti-deepstate Corbyn was made the enemy, EU was linked with "sinister" Corbyn.

Tories were buddies with Putin Oligarchs. Putin backed Brexit. Trump backed Brexit. Yes, Europe is planned to be encircled. And yes the deepstate is behind this.

Explaining why Europe needs nukes in numbers comparable to Russia, so Russia is unable to do nuclear blackmail. More importantly Europe needs to run their arms industry production around the clock.

This Ukraine War is the Trump-Russian attack on the EU to finish off the EU. With planned high natural gas prices, planned high oil prices, planned economic collapse of the EU. This is the plan of Putin. Brexit UK and Russia Republicans oppose the EU.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612205965499039744

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611854324308615171

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611774035184218119

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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So it is not like Iranian and DPRK's weapons are not making difference; they're significantly shifting the ground to Russia's favor.



So Russia has to rely on these two militarily as its own not enough to bring Ukraine to its knees. 



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> China and India are huge countries, so trading them means Russia beats the Western-imposed sanctions



Even Western sanctions come in phases. Realistically, a dependency so major cannot be do away with in a matter of months.

It's a long term drive. They won't stop even though Russia decides to pull out tomorrow. Putin burned that bridge of trust down. 

India and China are just being opportunistic - as India is in the QUAD and China has much larger trade with the US than Russia.

It is not anything like a global jihad unlike how you present it to be.

Russia's state revenue dropped. That's the whole point.




Hassan Al-Somal said:


> by the globohomo West.



You are either a hater. An illness. 

Or, in a psychological state of self-reflection. 

Meaning, what you see in others is a reflection of yourself. If approached positively, this will lead to growth, satisfaction and happiness 😊.

I wish it's the second as it's healthier for you.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611774035184218119


----------



## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> It's a feedback thing, maybe in the beginning it was not against europe, but it will end that way.
> 
> If Germany break up economic relations with Russia, then one day it will be profitable for Russia a first nuclear strike against Germany, and then: unconditional surrender and this stupid movie will over.
> 
> If West Europe states treat Ukraine war as a war against them and give weapons to Ukraine, it will end become a real Russia war against West Europe, a self fulfilled prophecy



I think bringing up the nukes nullify any political debate as nukes are worthless once they are used in our present world. 

If it were only Russia having them, they would be effective. 

Under existing conditions, it is extremely irresponsible for Russia to wave the nuclear stick. It just does not work that way. 

We need to keep cause-effect relationship in mind. It was Russian invasion that triggered the whole chain of events. Western intervention, brother's language being suppressed, Nazis are running rampant... These sort of arguments by Russia do not convince those with rational thinking because Russia has all the qualities/defects it blames Ukraine/the West for.



BHAN85 said:


> Ukraine/Russia problem is like Catalonia/Spain problem.
> 
> Ukraine/Catalonia people are the same than Russian/Spanish people, but they think they are special and different because his language has a couple of differences.
> 
> They dont feel identified, but they are the same



It is all about how the Ukrainians themselves feel about their national identity. Besides, nationhood and self-identity are not necessarily the same thing. You can continue to feel like a Slavic ethnicity while strongly identifying with the Ukrainian nationhood. 

No one can take away that sense of being Ukrainian if people themselves embrace it. If they are forcefully put under the Moscow yoke, they simply become another North Caucasus. 

Kadyrov runs the Caucasus. Some Wagner warlord would run Ukraine. 

Do you see a beautiful future coming out of this for you if you were a Ukrainian?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612234391345823747
This is sad. Hopefully, there will be a peaceful end to this conflict. Very sad for the Ukrainians and Russians who are affected by this conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612161781417521152
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612165580211228672


Its a bit better than Putin pimping out his population to do something they don't want to do. Its selling out your own sons.... At least the cartoon above is the world's oldest profession



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is a thread busting the fake Western journalists who are assisting the Ukrainians to hide the massive blow that the Russian armed forces delivered against the Ukrainian forces in Kramatorsk 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612157906312433666
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612157979691728900
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612158442533228545
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612160035232022529


Same thermobaric weapons Russians used in the takeover of Kiev. They didn't have anything then , import artillery from the world's beggar (N. Korea), but magically have thermobaric weapon used in a dormitory after losing half its gains.

I have seen Tom and Jerry cartoons more realistic than the stuff you post from deleted twitter accounts. Pls share more as I don't get to watch much cartoons any more

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## The SC

Soledar!.. interesting events and situations..

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## BHAN85

jhungary said:


> Don't know much about Spanish and Catalonia, but if you say Ukrainian and Russian are the same people, even before the war in Ukraine, you WILL get hit in the face (You will probably be shot now if you say that to an Ukrainian).
> 
> They are nothing alike except both are being Slavic (they are different Slavic group by the way) and both are orthodox. It's like saying Greek or Serbian are the same as Russian
> 
> If you know why both President of Russia and President of Ukraine have the *SAME FIRST NAME*, but they are spelt differently, you will know the different.


Well, that is exactly what I said.

A Spanish-speaking person can understand Catalonian-speaking person if he talks slow, in the same way that you can understand some relation between the words Vladimir and Volodomir.

Then Catalonian speaking people thinks they are special and from other universe, ignoring centuries of common history with Spain, ignoring all the Spaniards who live in Catalonia, and ignoring that all their fucking traditions and behavior are pretty the same than Spain.

The same to Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612045118474801155

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612105124268089344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612196593536466945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612168525598146560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612126898452107265


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612073352943865856

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> If you ask any Western Ukrainian, they will probably shot you now. If you ask any Ukrainian in the East, they will probably hit you in the face.


No one wants to be associated with their mortal enemy, but that doest change facts, culture language religion or DNA. The most vicious and bitter fights are between those that are the most similar. Ask those ukranians what is the most similar ethnic group to you? It's clearly the Russians. 


jhungary said:


> I would say culturally there are some similarities, but linguistically and racially most likely not. Ukrainian can't read Russian if they had not learnt Russian, but they can read Serbian even if they had no prior knowledge.


Ukrainians will definitely understand more russian than Serbian if they read it for the first time. Ukrainians will understand maybe 50% of Serbian-Bosnian-Croatian (essentially the same language). But they will understand maybe 80% of russian. 
In fact the only words from Serbian that ukranains will understand are those that are the same as russian. 


jhungary said:


> Racially, Russia is more metro than Ukrainian, Russian have a lot of different ethnicities, from Slavs to Chechen to Cossack to Buryat (Mongolian) to Siberian (Eskimo) to Russian Chinese, and of course, Rus. While most Ukrainian are either Slav or Cossack.


The ethnic minorities are irrelevant. We are comparing ethnic Russians to ethnic ukranians. Chechens or Chinese living in russia have nothing similar to Russians or Ukrainians, they are only there because they were conquered.


----------



## BHAN85

Stranagor said:


> I think bringing up the nukes nullify any political debate as nukes are worthless once they are used in our present world.
> 
> If it were only Russia having them, they would be effective.
> 
> Under existing conditions, it is extremely irresponsible for Russia to wave the nuclear stick. It just does not work that way.
> 
> We need to keep cause-effect relationship in mind. It was Russian invasion that triggered the whole chain of events. Western intervention, brother's language being suppressed, Nazis are running rampant... These sort of arguments by Russia do not convince those with rational thinking because Russia has all the qualities it blames Ukraine/the West for.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all about how the Ukrainians themselves feel about their national identity. Besides, nationhood and self-identity are not necessarily the same thing. You can continue to feel like a Slavic ethnicity while strongly identifying with the Ukrainian nationhood.
> 
> No one can take away that sense of being Ukrainian if people themselves embrace it. If they are forcefully put under the Moscow yoke, they simply become another North Caucasus.
> 
> Kadyrov runs the Caucasus. Some Wagner warlord would run Ukraine.
> 
> Do you see a beautiful future coming out of this for you if you were a Ukrainian?



I prefer Ukraine past before 2014 under Moscow rule, than current Ukraine under bombs. Maybe they were not rich, but they got their basic needs supplied, now they live in the fucking hell.

Nationalist identity can be exagerated to unstabilize a country, and that is easy to do when the country has economic problems and the devil that unstabilizes come with fresh money.

There is a lot of common parallelisms between Ukraine/Russia problem and Catalonia/Spain problem (2017).
Both problems were used by the twisted Americans to unstabilize europe using dumbshit european slaves like EU and Germany.

Do you remember Barcelona terrorist attack in Las Ramblas August 17th 2017? It was the biggest terrorist attack in Spain since March 11st 2004 terrorist attack in Madrid, and it happened months after than the biggest terrorist attack in UK (Manchester) since July 7th 2005 terrorist attack in London.

Do you think it's a coincidence? When the Americans start their plans, things starts to blow up.









2004 Madrid train bombings - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













2017 Barcelona attacks - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













7 July 2005 London bombings - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Manchester Arena bombing - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org










2017 Catalan independence referendum - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





America and Europe can't have common interests in 2023, in a world with each time less energy and raw materials.
But dumbshit European rulers keep acting like if nothing of the previous things had happened in last years.

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## The SC

Russian general, member of the State Duma Defense Committee, Andrei Gorolev:

Russia should be prepared for the fact that the United States can send nuclear weapons to Ukraine and train Ukrainian troops how to use them.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612157565768708096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612124577521442817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612218450126200832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612218441343111170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612106629138481158

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612104752191442949

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## jhungary

BHAN85 said:


> Well, that is exactly what I said.
> 
> A Spanish-speaking person can understand Catalonian-speaking person if he talks slow, in the same way that you can understand some relation between the words Vladimir and Volodomir.
> 
> Then Catalonian speaking people thinks they are special and from other universe, ignoring centuries of common history with Spain, ignoring all the Spaniards who live in Catalonia, and ignoring that all their fucking traditions and behavior are pretty the same than Spain.
> 
> The same to Ukraine.


Unless my ex-Ukrainian girlfriend lies to me. A person only speak Ukrainian will not understand Russian no matter how slow he or she speak. The word structure and the context are different. While yes, some words are the similar, but with my basic understand of both languages, I would say it is closer to an English Speaker talk to a German Speaker speaking their respective language.

This is not even at the team of a Chinese Speaker and a Japanese Speaker or Spanish and Portuguese.



thetutle said:


> No one wants to be associated with their mortal enemy, but that doest change facts, culture language religion or DNA. The most vicious and bitter fights are between those that are the most similar. Ask those ukranians what is the most similar ethnic group to you? It's clearly the Russians.
> 
> Ukrainians will definitely understand more russian than Serbian if they read it for the first time. Ukrainians will understand maybe 50% of Serbian-Bosnian-Croatian (essentially the same language). But they will understand maybe 80% of russian.
> In fact the only words from Serbian that ukranains will understand are those that are the same as russian.



Refer to the answer above.

I wouldn't say a Ukrainian will understand 50% of what a Russian said. A Chinese may understand 50% of what a Japanese said if they had not learn the language, Russian and Ukrainian is not really that close.



thetutle said:


> The ethnic minorities are irrelevant. We are comparing ethnic Russians to ethnic ukranians. Chechens or Chinese living in russia have nothing similar to Russians or Ukrainians, they are only there because they were conquered.



Well, Ukrainian is actually itself an ethnic minority in Russia.

It depends on how you define Russian. If you are talking about Rus (as in ethnic European) then yes, they are similar, but then it will be the same across Baltic, Finland and some Swede. If you are talking about Rossiyane (The Russian Identity) then no. Ukrainian is not in that category.

I don't think there were ever "Ethnic Russian" by the way, I mean it's either you considered yourself European or Russian. Its like people saying Han is Chinese (as most Chinese is Han), most Han will identify themselves as Chinese, they seldom identify themselves as Han or Ethnic Han....So if you are saying Ethnic Russian are the same or similar to Ethnic Ukrainian, well, you are basically coming down to White People are similar to White people....

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## Stranagor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So it is not like Iranian and DPRK's weapons are not making difference; they're significantly shifting the ground to Russia's favor



Indeed, Russia has been increasingly dependent on Iranian and North Korean military support.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> China and India are huge countries, so trading them means Russia beats the Western-imposed sanctions.



Not necessarily because Russian trade is heavily resource -based and it has to make deep discounts because Indians and Chinese have the advantage of being two of the few buyers, hence they utilize this Russian weakness to their own advantage.

India and China are ruthless pragmatic countries. 

It is called trade between inequals.


----------



## Stranagor

BHAN85 said:


> I prefer Ukraine past before 2014 under Moscow rule, than current Ukraine under bombs. Maybe they were not rich, but they got their basic needs supplied, now they live in the fucking hell.



Looking at the developments on the ground, Ukrainian people overwhelmingly disagree with you. 

By the same analogy, any war of independence is like living in hell. Revolutions and wars of independence tend to be not so nice. It's what it is.



BHAN85 said:


> Nationalist identity can be exaggerated to unstabilize a country, and that is easy to do when the country has economic problems and the devil that unstabilizes come with fresh money.



You can apply the same analogy to all the independent Central Asian states which were under Soviet rule or current Balkan republics which were under Ottoman rule. Were they bad nationalism? 

Without nationalist ideology, one cannot fight a war. Same for Syrian people who stood against all odds. I don't see it as an exaggeration, but people's own decision. If the Syrian people did not have that fighting in themselves, resigned to the idea of a country divided into three to avoid a bloodshed, no amount of Russian help would save them. 

Or, if you really find the moniker too repulsive, you don't call it nationalism but patriotism.

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> I prefer Ukraine past before 2014 under Moscow rule, than current Ukraine under bombs. Maybe they were not rich, but they got their basic needs supplied, now they live in the fucking hell.
> 
> Nationalist identity can be exagerated to unstabilize a country, and that is easy to do when the country has economic problems and the devil that unstabilizes come with fresh money.
> 
> There is a lot of common parallelisms between Ukraine/Russia problem and Catalonia/Spain problem (2017).
> Both problems were used by the twisted Americans to unstabilize europe using dumbshit european slaves like EU and Germany.
> 
> Do you remember Barcelona terrorist attack in Las Ramblas August 17th 2017? It was the biggest terrorist attack in Spain since March 11st 2004 terrorist attack in Madrid, and it happened months after than the biggest terrorist attack in UK (Manchester) since July 7th 2005 terrorist attack in London.
> 
> Do you think it's a coincidence? When the Americans start their plans, things starts to blow up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2004 Madrid train bombings - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2017 Barcelona attacks - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7 July 2005 London bombings - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manchester Arena bombing - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2017 Catalan independence referendum - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America and Europe can't have common interests in 2023, in a world with each time less energy and raw materials.
> But dumbshit European rulers keep acting like if nothing of the previous things had happened in last years.


That’s worthless in using the judgments of others. Your opinion or Putin’s opinion is worthless. Ukraine is like a women that wants to leave an abusing husband. Every relationship is up and down, at some point enough is enough. why don’t let her go? Why start a war to kill her?

It’s Ukraine that self decides her fate, nobody else. About the conflict with Russia, Ukraine wants to join the EU that led to revolution because the gov refused to sign the treaty that’s in turn the reason why Putin starts the war in 2014.

Putin is like a man that rather wants to kill his former spouse than let her go with another man.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is sad. Hopefully, there will be a peaceful end to this conflict. Very sad for the Ukrainians and Russians who are affected by this conflict.



War stinks.

It is no wonder that all the 3 religions tried to comfort people , by promising them that one day there will be no more wars.

People have freedom of choice, there is nothing stopping people from reaching this goal , even without some divine intervention. This is our duty as human beings.

May this be the last war.


~


----------



## Viet

Russia is determined to wage war against Ukraine at all costs. The goal is either extermination of Ukraine or if not possible occupy its territories as much as possible. Or secondary goal the annexed regions. Or as minimum goal the Donbas.

According to EU military staff, Russia suffers enormous casualties: 250,000 men. 60k to 65k death, the rest is wounded. 60 percent of all tanks, 40 percent of all amor vehicles were destroyed.






Ukraine-Perspektive für 2023: Russland wird weiter angreifen - ZDFheute


Russland wird im Donbass weiter angreifen, während es an den anderen Fronten verteidigt; Verluste lassen die russische Armee ausbluten.




amp.zdf.de


----------



## ZeGerman

Why European Democracies Are More Resilient Than Expected


As winter neared, many observers were concerned about the resilience of European democracies during Russia’s war against Ukraine. The triple pressures of economic downturn and inflation, energy crisi…




www.cfr.org





So i see support (financial/sanctions/military) from EU to continue well into 2023.
Gas storage remains high as well.

The latest move to donate Bradley/Marder/AMX-10 is a step up too. Hopefully to artillery in larger numbers and Leopard tanks. 
The latter relies fully on the Germans. Who are overly passive on this matter (they have been consistently way to soft towards Putin. Assuming trade and concessions would avoid any confrontation, allowing themselves to be blackmailed due to gas dependency and stripping their military)

public support for weapons was a majority in germany for most of the year (historically considering how much of a tree-hugger germans became in that regard) but has dipped just below 50% again and we know how much of a whore for votes many Politicians can be. 

Scholz however doesnt need to donate any tanks himself. Merely needs to “ok” Leopard tank for third party donation. poland, finland, spain are eager to hand over many dozens of tanks.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That was a thermobaric attack, you bummer. Ukraine is only showing 2 holes. The attack was carried out with aleast 8 missile attacks. What happened to other missiles? That is the proof that the Ukrainians have something to hide.
> 
> The twitter profile was deleted after he found out how it spread throughout social media. Perhaps Ukrainian securities ordered him to take it down and he deleted his whole profile.



Do you even believe what you are writing ? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612121227971239936

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Why European Democracies Are More Resilient Than Expected
> 
> 
> As winter neared, many observers were concerned about the resilience of European democracies during Russia’s war against Ukraine. The triple pressures of economic downturn and inflation, energy crisi…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cfr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So i see support (financial/sanctions/military) from EU to continue well into 2023.
> Gas storage remains high as well.
> 
> The latest move to donate Bradley/Marder/AMX-10 is a step up too. Hopefully to artillery in larger numbers and Leopard tanks.
> The latter relies fully on the Germans. Who are overly passive on this matter (they have been consistently way to soft towards Putin. Assuming trade and concessions would avoid any confrontation, allowing themselves to be blackmailed due to gas dependency and stripping their military)
> 
> public support for weapons was a majority in germany for most of the year (historically considering how much of a tree-hugger germans became in that regard) but has dipped just below 50% again and we know how much of a whore for votes many Politicians can be.
> 
> Scholz however doesnt need to donate any tanks himself. Merely needs to “ok” Leopard tank for third party donation. poland, finland, spain are eager to hand over many dozens of tanks.


Germany fears escalation but that fear is unfounded. It won’t be WW3 or WW4. its Putin. He alone decides to escalate or not. He is on madness trip. He goes all-out no matter Germany sends tanks or fighter jets. He sends parts of Russia’s 400,000 men national guard to the front. Those “Rosgwardija” is already suffering heavy losses. He will send more.

10 countries are ready to send leopards to Ukraine. Olaf Scholz just needs to say ok. Germany does not even need to send a single tank.

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL Russian can't hit shit 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612121227971239936
Even God is against Russia... If you support Russia you support Satan. Sry I didn't make the rule, 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612016115806347264

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612396675171254272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612397347593412609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612414564297211905

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612410498514915328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612403242259865602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612405732674252801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612405579317755904

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612422124278517762

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BHAN85

Viet said:


> That’s worthless in using the judgments of others. Your opinion or Putin’s opinion is worthless. Ukraine is like a women that wants to leave an abusing husband. Every relationship is up and down, at some point enough is enough. why don’t let her go? Why start a war to kill her?
> 
> It’s Ukraine that self decides her fate, nobody else. About the conflict with Russia, Ukraine wants to join the EU that led to revolution because the gov refused to sign the treaty that’s in turn the reason why Putin starts the war in 2014.
> 
> Putin is like a man that rather wants to kill his former spouse than let her go with another man.


I agree, but that wouldn't never provocate a conflict with EU, without EU behavior arming and supporting Ukraine.

It's a internal Russia issue.

EU have turn a Russia problem into a West European problem.


----------



## The SC

NATO accepted the Inevitable┃Bakhmut and Soledar are Passing Into the Hands of the Russian Army​




BREAKING NEWS | Large Russian Breakthrough North of Bakhmut​

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612395235836821504

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> I agree, but that wouldn't never provocate a conflict with EU, without EU behavior arming and supporting Ukraine.
> 
> It's a internal Russia issue.
> 
> EU have turn a Russia problem into a West European problem.


You are mistaken. Ukraine is part of western civilization, while Russia is part of eastern barbarism. 

The russians under Putin become part of primitive jungle people, they have no sympathy for anything. Millions are driven out of Ukraine, hundreds thousands deaths and wounded, destruction everywhere? No problem. Hundreds thousands of deaths, wounded in Russia? Millions fall into poverty? The country isolated and sanctioned as never before? No problem.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612434676693467137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612410874651721728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612434441883770884

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612365941777514497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612439671182880770






*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612433518717734913*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612433857583714304

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612414767972421632

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612447278807093250

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612412798600085504
Everything they touch is just backfiring on them 



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612447278807093250




10 Challenger tanks and you chose to post it? I think they're telling Ukrainians the writing is on the wall, and we can no longer continue shouldering this huge burden. In other words, we can't continue this war.

Germans themselves stated in order to supply additions IFVs, they would need to look into their existing inventory. It is pretty obvious the fatigue is starting to set in the West, and the Ukrainians are given the signal.

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## SIPRA

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Everything they touch is just backfiring on them



Now, even their Back is firing.😛😛😛

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612412798600085504
> Everything they touch is just backfiring on them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10 Challenger tanks and you chose to post it?



10 Challenger will open the pandora box and will be the prelude of more important tank supplies by the west. Russian crap won't stand a chance.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612414134540455938

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> 10 Challenger will open the pandora box and will be the prelude of more important tank supplies by the west. Russian crap won't stand a chance.



You're really delusional and fit into the typical Westerner who wave the flag and swallow everything he (or she) hears from their mainstream media and politicians. Donating ten challenger tanks is an insult to the injury. After more than 100, 000 deaths, 100s of 1000s more of casualties and over 13 million refugees suffered by Ukrainians, UK - who is one of the main countries in the West who pushed for this war - is giving Ukraine 10 tanks? If that is not an insult, I don't know what it is.

If the Ukrainian military leaders are paying attention to how the West is responding and have any form of patriotism and love left for their country, there should be a coup in Uktraine and should call for ceasefire and peace treaty with Russia. Their country and the blood and treasure of their people have been used as sacrificial lambs in order to bleed the Russians.

The West is truly evil. They set these 2 countries (Russia and Ukraine) against each other, and all they care about is bleeding Russia, of course on the blood and suffering of Ukrainians. This is what you should understand about the West: It is the home center of the Antichrist.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're really delusional and fit into the typical Westerner who wave the flag and swallow everything he (or she) hears from their mainstream media and politicians. Donating ten challenger tanks is an insult to the injury. After more than 100, 000 deaths, 100s of 1000s more of casualties and over 13 million refugees suffered by Ukrainians, UK - who is one of the main countries in the West who pushed for this war - is giving Ukraine 10 tanks? If that is not an insult, I don't know what it is.
> 
> If the Ukrainian military leaders are paying attention to how the West is responding and have any form of patriotism and love left for their country, there should be a coup in Uktraine and should call for ceasefire and peace treaty with Russia. Their country and the blood and treasure of their people have been used as sacrificial lambs in order to bleed the Russians.
> 
> The West is truly evil. They set these 2 countries (Russia and Ukraine) against each other, and all they care about is bleeding Russia, of course on the blood and suffering of Ukrainians. This is what you should understand about the West: It is the home center of the Antichrist.



You talk about swallowing everything when you basically do the same about everything Russia says even though you are proven wrong by a + b. 

And as I said if you couldn't understand english even though you are living in the US, this will be the prelude of more deliveries of western tanks to Ukraine. 50 Bradley, Marders etc are just a starter.

No according to Russia, Ukrainian armed forces suffered 500K casualties but Russians are fighting against poles and Ukrainians brought back to life by anglo saxon black satanic magic.


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is what you should understand about the West: It is the home center of the Antichrist.




You have the address ?

~

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612412798600085504
> Everything they touch is just backfiring on them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10 Challenger tanks and you chose to post it? I think they're telling Ukrainians the writing is on the wall, and we can no longer continue shouldering this huge burden. In other words, we can't continue this war.
> 
> Germans themselves stated in order to supply additions IFVs, they would need to look into their existing inventory. It is pretty obvious the fatigue is starting to set in the West, and the Ukrainians are given the signal.



The US just announced the largest weapons package in the war to date. No one is getting tired.

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## mike2000 is back

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is what you should understand about the West: It is the home center of the Antichrist.


Yet you are living and enjoying your life in the capital of anti christ. Lmao.😂 
Why dont you live in/move to Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Russia or North Korea? Lol 
Seriously i don't understand some of you guys. If i believed a certain country or region was evil and Anti christ and i despised them so much then i will never set my foot there or i will do everything to move away/leave the place as soon as i can and avoid it like a pest. Yet we have people here seating in the comfort of their western homes and commenting how evil the West is and how they despise the West. How can anyone even take you guys seriously when they see this? 😂



F-22Raptor said:


> The US just announced the largest weapons package in the war to date. No one is getting tired.


In fact the West is just getting started. If Russia thinks with its industrial/economic capacity the size of Italy it can outproduce or outpace the West/NATO then I dont know which kind of drug Putin is taking..
He should try and end this war on a slightly better note for him or make some concessions, else he will have to pull out completely without much to show for it like in Afghanistan..afterall, Russia is even weaker economically than even Germany, UK or France much less the US/West combined. 
Anyway, lets see how he keeps this war going without bankrupting his country a few years from now.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612464970523893764
Me buying asian food to try making a ramen and cook it on my gas stove like always

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> I don't think there were ever "Ethnic Russian"


of course there are ethnic Russians, dont be ridiculous, 


jhungary said:


> It depends on how you define Russian. If you are talking about Rus (as in ethnic European) then yes, they are similar, but then it will be the same across Baltic, Finland and some Swede.


Ethnic Russian. its not that hard to imagine. Putin is one. Gorbachev is another. Maria Sharapova. and 100 million others. 


Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL Russian can't hit shit
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612121227971239936
> Even God is against Russia... If you support Russia you support Satan. Sry I didn't make the rule,
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612016115806347264


yes its clear for all to see, God has spared europe a harsh winter.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612459386147901442


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## mike2000 is back

thetutle said:


> yes its clear for all to see, God has spared europe a harsh winter


No, Russia will make the West will collapse this year(postponed from 2022). 
Source: "Trust me bro ". 😉

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## thetutle

mike2000 is back said:


> No, Russia will make the West will collapse this year(postponed from 2022).
> Source: "Trust me bro ". 😉


Russian sources are saying that British women are trading sex for heat and food. Can you confirm or deny this? Are you in the UK?

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## Viet

The flood is coming.

The UK considers sending a dozen of challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine.

Now Germany has no more excuse.


















(S+) Krieg in der Ukraine: Großbritannien erwägt Kampfpanzer-Lieferung


Deutschland, Frankreich und die USA liefern der Ukraine Panzer, nun zieht womöglich ein weiterer Nato-Partner nach: Nach SPIEGEL-Informationen erwägt die Regierung in London, gut ein Dutzend Kampfpanzer vom Typ Challenger 2 abzugeben.




www.spiegel.de

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> of course there are ethnic Russians, dont be ridiculous,
> 
> Ethnic Russian. its not that hard to imagine. Putin is one. Gorbachev is another. Maria Sharapova. and 100 million others.


Again, what you are saying is along the line of something about "Ethnic English" exist in the UK, bear in mind Scotts are more or less descendant of Viking and both Wales and Northern Ireland are Celtics.......Then I can say Ethnic English or Ethic Anglo does exist, Boris Johnson is one (Even tho he was born in the US), King George is one, and David beckham and so does 50 millions other. And then I can come around and say ethnic Celtic also exist, Ryan Giggs is one.

And then if you come down to it, then yes, Ethnic Ukrainian and Ethic Russian are similar, as they are both White, both have Light Colour eyes, both have light skin. Dude, com'on..... If You literally can say that, then you are essentially saying British is Similar to French is Similar to German is similar to Dutch who is similar to Spanish who is similar to Belgium and so on.


----------



## Deino

So much on Russian Army is denazificating Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612273380039745537

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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> You have the address ?
> 
> ~




He is imprisoned in an island, most likely in England. And he is the one that you're all (Zionist Jews and Freemasonries) are waiting for. He is the one behind all of this evil in the world today.

But rest assured, he is going to be killed at gate of Ludd by the True Messiah - the Son of Mary.



Viet said:


> The flood is coming.
> 
> The UK considers sending a dozen of challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine.
> 
> Now Germany has no more excuse.
> 
> 
> View attachment 910511
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (S+) Krieg in der Ukraine: Großbritannien erwägt Kampfpanzer-Lieferung
> 
> 
> Deutschland, Frankreich und die USA liefern der Ukraine Panzer, nun zieht womöglich ein weiterer Nato-Partner nach: Nach SPIEGEL-Informationen erwägt die Regierung in London, gut ein Dutzend Kampfpanzer vom Typ Challenger 2 abzugeben.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de




Only 10 them they will donate, and the Russian drones with those guided tank busters are waiting for them. Rest assured, they won't make much of a difference in the battle-field.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

mike2000 is back said:


> Yet you are living and enjoying your life in the capital of anti christ. Lmao.😂



I don't live in UK. Are you out of your mind. I live in my country.



mike2000 is back said:


> Why dont you live in/move to Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Russia or North Korea? Lol



Because I am not from there. 



mike2000 is back said:


> Seriously i don't understand some of you guys. If i believed a certain country or region was evil and Anti christ and i despised them so much then i will never set my foot there or i will do everything to move away/leave the place as soon as i can and avoid it like a pest. Yet we have people here seating in the comfort of their western homes and commenting how evil the West is and how they despise the West. How can anyone even take you guys seriously when they see this? 😂



Who lives in the home of the Antichrist? I don't. 


mike2000 is back said:


> In fact the West is just getting started. If Russia thinks with its industrial/economic capacity the size of Italy it can outproduce or outpace the West/NATO then I dont know which kind of drug Putin is taking..
> He should try and end this war on a slightly better note for him or make some concessions, else he will have to pull out completely without much to show for it like in Afghanistan..afterall, Russia is even weaker economically than even Germany, UK or France much less the US/West combined.
> Anyway, lets see how he keeps this war going without bankrupting his country a few years from now.



You live in a lalaland. The West is preparing for the eventual defeat of Ukrainian forces. Just look at the piecemeal aid that they're sending to Ukraine. The writing is on the wall, buddy. If these Ukrainians were Israelis and/or Zionist Jews, the West would've been providing their latest weapons endlessly, and all of the Christian Evangelicals would've been declaring a holly war. But for the Ukrainians, even having Zelensky as their president is not good enough for the West. In the eyes of the world of the Antichrist, the Slavs who are Orthodox Christians and/or Muslims are not liked and should be fought at all cost.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> The US just announced the largest weapons package in the war to date. No one is getting tired.




You don't know how the US aid works. 90% of the US aid never leaves America's shores. I did a research in my college days, and that is why I ran into. The latest $3 billion USD military aid that the US announced towards Ukraine, it wouldn't be more than 20 artillery pieces and a few thousand ammunition. Every senator and many of the congressional representatives want a piece of that money for their constituency. 

But perhaps you're one of those consultants who are getting big fat checks at the misery of the Ukrainian people, and you want them to continue fighting their Slav brothers while you're laughing to the bank.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Again, what you are saying is along the line of something about "Ethnic English" exist in the UK, bear in mind Scotts are more or less descendant of Viking and both Wales and Northern Ireland are Celtics.......


Scots are not nordics at all. 


jhungary said:


> Then I can say Ethnic English or Ethic Anglo does exist, Boris Johnson is one (Even tho he was born in the US), King George is one, and David beckham and so does 50 millions other. And then I can come around and say ethnic Celtic also exist, Ryan Giggs is one.


There are English people, as you say, at least 50 million of them in the UK. Boris Johnson and Beckham are not the most pure examples of English people. Boris' Grandpa was called Osman Kemal and his mum is part jewish. Beckham is also part jewish. King George? Well depends which one. King George II was as English as I am. Which is not at all, he was in fact German. 

Ryan Giggs is a quarter black. so, hmmmm not really the finest example of a Celt. 

But yes, English People do exist. But they are a nationality. Celts are more a subgroup of white people, more comparable to Slavs or Anglo-Saxons. 

Irish and welsh are largely Celtic. They are similar people. 
Western Germans and English are largely Anglo-Saxon (or we can say Germanic). They are similar people. 
Russians and Ukrainians are Slavic, They are similar people. 



jhungary said:


> And then if you come down to it, then yes, Ethnic Ukrainian and Ethic Russian are similar, as they are both White, both have Light Colour eyes, both have light skin. Dude, com'on..... If You literally can say that, then you are essentially saying British is Similar to French is Similar to German is similar to Dutch who is similar to Spanish who is similar to Belgium and so on.


Russians are Slavic, Irish are Celtic. But they are not similar people. 
They are both white people, but are not very similar.

I am a white Slavic person. Nationality Bosnian. I grew up next to English and Irish people. I do not understand English or Irish people. We are NOT very similar. They are not very attractive or interesting to me. 

I met maybe 3 Russians in my life and I'm already going out with one, We are more similar. Culturally and linguistically.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But for the Ukrainians, even having Zelensky as their president is not good enough for the West. In the eyes of the world of the Antichrist, the Slavs who are Orthodox Christians and/or Muslims are not liked and should be fought at all cost.


West doesnt hate slavs, but they do hate Muslims. Obviously. 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But perhaps you're one of those consultants who are getting big fat checks at the misery of the Ukrainian people, and you want them to continue fighting their Slav brothers while you're laughing to the bank.


Best way for Ukranians to stop fighting their fellow slav brothers, is for those slavic brothers to get the hell out of their country. 

Go back to russia and stay there = eternal peace and slavic brotherhood.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> In the eyes of the world of the Antichrist, the Slavs who are Orthodox Christians and/or Muslims are not liked and should be fought at all cost.


From a muslim point of view, Both Russia and the West occupy Muslims lands and are causing grief for muslims. 

List of Muslim lands held by russia:
Caucases. Southern Russia near Black Sea, Tatar areas, Karabakh, Various occupations in Central Asia. 
Land area = Very very very large land area. maybe 4,000,000 sq/km

List of Muslims lands held by west:
Israel. West Bank, Gaza. Spanish exclaves in Africa (Melilia & Ceuta).
Land area = 21,000 sq/km (42% of Dagestan)

So a prudent strategy would be to see russia fail and take back what's possible.


----------



## PakFactor

thetutle said:


> From a muslim point of view, Both Russia and the West occupy Muslims lands and are causing grief for muslims.
> 
> List of Muslim lands held by russia:
> Caucases. Southern Russia near Black Sea, Tatar areas, Karabakh, Various occupations in Central Asia.
> Land area = Very very very large land area. maybe 4,000,000 sq/km
> 
> List of Muslims lands held by west:
> Israel. West Bank, Gaza. Spanish exclaves in Africa (Melilia & Ceuta).
> Land area = 21,000 sq/km (42% of Dagestan)
> 
> So a prudent strategy would be to see russia fail and take back what's possible.



The Muslim World would get a nuke up its backside before Russia would give anything away, primarily to the Muslims. None would retaliate because, for the West and Hindu, it'll solve their world's problem.



Deino said:


> So much on Russian Army is denazificating Ukraine
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612273380039745537



Hey Deino, leave my Russians alone. 😑


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> He is imprisoned in an island, most likely in England. And he is the one that you're all (Zionist Jews and Freemasonries) are waiting for. He is the one behind all of this evil in the world today.
> 
> But rest assured, he is going to be killed at gate of Ludd by the True Messiah - the Son of Mary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only 10 them they will donate, and the Russian drones with those guided tank busters are waiting for them. Rest assured, they won't make much of a difference in the battle-field.


10 tanks can make a difference my friend. At least at Bakhmut. Not that easy to target the western tanks. They are very agile very protected. With western tanks coming Ukraine will adopt NATO standard of “Gefecht der verbundenen Waffen” or combined arms battle. The tanks will not run alone. They run along with aviation and infantry.


----------



## thetutle

PakFactor said:


> The Muslim World would get a nuke up its backside before Russia would give anything away, primarily to the Muslims. None would retaliate because, for the West and Hindu, it'll solve their world's problem.


Well, they'll give it away if they get desperate. Look at USSR, They finally gave up Central Asia to some degree or another. Sometimes its just not worth holding onto.

They gave up Finland. 

Its possible. The west wont stop until Russia is destroyed.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You don't know how the US aid works. 90% of the US aid never leaves America's shores. I did a research in my college days, and that is why I ran into. The latest $3 billion USD military aid that the US announced towards Ukraine, it wouldn't be more than 20 artillery pieces and a few thousand ammunition. Every senator and many of the congressional representatives want a piece of that money for their constituency.
> 
> But perhaps you're one of those consultants who are getting big fat checks at the misery of the Ukrainian people, and you want them to continue fighting their Slav brothers while you're laughing to the bank.




This is what you call pure copium folks


----------



## ZeGerman

I hate to agree with Hassan for a change but the UK “pondering” about a handful of tanks to donate is borderline offensive. 

“BREAKING, the UK aids Ukraine with…a firm handshake…”


Its basically a way to poke the germans into freeing up Leopards which will have poland/findland/spain to donate the needed hundreds of tanks. 

The west is still enormously tight with military aid. 
Those old stocks were made for the soviets..and are sitting there eating dust. What are you keeping them on for? Afraid for the germans going full psycho again? 
Belgium? 

This is the perfect forward defense against russia which is and was the only real threat anyway.


----------



## The SC

A whole AFU brigade has decided to retreat from Soledar..and much more updates..

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## Primus

Viet said:


> 10 tanks can make a difference my friend. At least at Bakhmut. Not that easy to target the western tanks. They are very agile very protected. With western tanks coming Ukraine will adopt NATO standard of “Gefecht der verbundenen Waffen” or combined arms battle. The tanks will not run alone. They run along with aviation and infantry.
> 
> 
> View attachment 910578


Challenger 2 MBT are not suited for Urban combat. No tank is really asides merkava which was designed with urban combat in mind. 

If it's sent into Bakhmut then thats just a waste of a good tank. Challenger 2 can make a big difference on the fields of Donbass however


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## MeFishToo

ZeGerman said:


> I hate to agree with Hassan for a change but the UK “pondering” about a handful of tanks to donate is borderline offensive.
> 
> “BREAKING, the UK aids Ukraine with…a firm handshake…”
> 
> 
> Its basically a way to poke the germans into freeing up Leopards which will have poland/findland/spain to donate the needed hundreds of tanks.
> 
> The west is still enormously tight with military aid.
> Those old stocks were made for the soviets..and are sitting there eating dust. What are you keeping them on for? Afraid for the germans going full psycho again?
> Belgium?
> 
> This is the perfect forward defense against russia which is and was the only real threat anyway.


Maybe the european armed forces and equipment exists mainly on paper. I know for a fact the danish army does and I believe most european armies are no different. My guess is less than half of the european tanks are operational, not only because of lack of maintenance and upgrading but also shortage of personel.
Its not like Europe cant produce a huge amount of weapons, but “military” has been politically incorrect for decades in western europe, and neglected by most governments. Politicians have been arguing for so many years that our tiny military budgets were *huge*, and now those same politicians have to sell the argument we need to double those budgets, and scale up arms production.
Donated operational Leopard 2 tanks would take years to be replaced at the current rate of upgrading and production. I do understand why some may be reluctant to donate them.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612573213208334353
The U.S. is considering sending Stryker armored combat vehicles to Ukraine in an upcoming aid package to help Kyiv fend off an expected Russian spring offensive, according to two people familiar with the discussion.

The news follows the Biden administration’s announcement last week that it will send 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, a powerful tracked armored vehicle that carries an autocannon, a machine gun and TOW missiles.

#PrayForRussia

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612579277412732930
Bradleys
Strykers
Challengers
Leopards
AMX-10s
Marders
HMMWV
PATRIOTS
HIMARS
M777
M109
M270

Next up:

ABRAMS
ATACMS
MQ 9s
Apache
Black Hawk
F-15
F-16
THAAD


#PrayForRussia @Hassan Al-Somal




​

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## kingQamaR

Primus said:


> Challenger 2 MBT are not suited for Urban combat. No tank is really asides merkava which was designed with urban combat in mind.
> 
> If it's sent into Bakhmut then thats just a waste of a good tank. Challenger 2 can make a big difference on the fields of Donbass however



The Challenger has a good gun and good armour, but that is about it. There's a reason why only 447 have been built and only UK and Oman have them. Challengers may score quite highly in two or three areas, but they fall far short in just about every other. The full battle weight of these by the way is nearly 83 tons. That is huge. There will be many Ukrainian bridges these tanks will not be able to cross. And how on earth is Ukraine expected to recover any of these tanks if they break down or get damaged? Ukraine only has recovery gear for tanks weighing not much more than 50 tons. A terrible idea, which after some initial success will just be a huge burden on Ukraine's Army. Some might fall into Russian hands.


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## Wolfhunter

Looks like Britain will be sending challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine:









Britain considers supplying Ukraine with Challenger 2 tanks


The UK is considering supplying Ukraine with a small number of Challenger 2 Main Battle Tanks.




ukdefencejournal.org.uk





So where are these 500,000 Russian super soldiers?


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Scots are not nordics at all.





thetutle said:


> There are English people, as you say, at least 50 million of them in the UK. Boris Johnson and Beckham are not the most pure examples of English people. Boris' Grandpa was called Osman Kemal and his mum is part jewish. Beckham is also part jewish. King George? Well depends which one. King George II was as English as I am. Which is not at all, he was in fact German.
> 
> Ryan Giggs is a quarter black. so, hmmmm not really the finest example of a Celt.
> 
> But yes, English People do exist. But they are a nationality. Celts are more a subgroup of white people, more comparable to Slavs or Anglo-Saxons.
> 
> Irish and welsh are largely Celtic. They are similar people.
> Western Germans and English are largely Anglo-Saxon (or we can say Germanic). They are similar people.
> Russians and Ukrainians are Slavic, They are similar people.
> 
> 
> Russians are Slavic, Irish are Celtic. But they are not similar people.
> They are both white people, but are not very similar.



That was actually my point......I was saying "IF YOU CAN CLAIM" all that was true, you can also claim what I said in previous post is true......

Nobody is of Pure Ethnicity this day, I am a Hispanic-Asian with Anglo descent, my wife is Nordic and Dalecarlian descent, in a big country like US and Russia or even smaller country like Sweden, I am American, my wife is Swedish, and Putin is Russian. There are no "Ethnic American", "Ethnic Swede" and "Ethnic Russian"

That is what I mean by "Ethnicity" did not really exist, because how are you going to define them? Thru geneology? Or thru descent?? Hence I said it the 3rd time now, if you are saying "Ethnic Russian" is the similar to "Ethnic Ukrainian" the only thing they shared between ethnic Ukrainian and Ethnic Russian is their physical feature, but then if you put it that way, it's also mean every other European are similar to each other.

and no Nobody in Germany and England I know would think German and English is similar......



thetutle said:


> I am a white Slavic person. Nationality Bosnian. I grew up next to English and Irish people. I do not understand English or Irish people. We are NOT very similar. They are not very attractive or interesting to me.
> 
> I met maybe 3 Russians in my life and I'm already going out with one, We are more similar. Culturally and linguistically.


I don't know about Russian and Bosnian, as I said, Culturally, Ukrainian share some similarity with Russia, but language, again, unless my ex and most of my friend lies to me, they aren't similar.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612588523219218437

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612613612689915904

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612591571924561920


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612554493891170304

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612589764200497152

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612576400363630593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612576400363630593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612536697702457345

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> There are no "Ethnic American", "Ethnic Swede" and "Ethnic Russian"


There are no Ethnic Americans, but there are certainly ethnic swedes and ethnic Russians. 


jhungary said:


> That is what I mean by "Ethnicity" did not really exist, because how are you going to define them? Thru geneology? Or thru descent??


You define it by descent, appearance, culture language & religion. And yeah, it does exist because people identify with it and exclude others from it. 


jhungary said:


> Hence I said it the 3rd time now, if you are saying "Ethnic Russian" is the similar to "Ethnic Ukrainian" the only thing they shared between ethnic Ukrainian and Ethnic Russian is their physical feature,


No, they share culture, religion, language similarities also. They are very closely related groups. 


jhungary said:


> but then if you put it that way, it's also mean every other European are similar to each other.


They are when compared to Africans or Asians. 


jhungary said:


> and no Nobody in Germany and England I know would think German and English is similar......


They might not think so, but they are. Not all germans, I'm talking western germans, much less so the bavarians. 


jhungary said:


> I am a Hispanic-Asian with Anglo descent,


You are probably just confused because of your mixed ethnic and racial background. You dont neatly fit into any group, You can just say you are American. A lot of it what you consider yourself and what others accept you as. 

Like you, I have other ethnic groups in my family, and I can also try to identify with them, like German, but if I Turn up to a village in Germany, with my name and Language skills and religion and world views, it would take a huge huge effort before I would be accepted as an ethnic German. Like never. 

So back to Ukranians, They exist, they seem very determined to be free and independent and are locked into a war with probably the closest ethnic groups to them in this world. This is not unusual by the way. The most bitter conflicts are amongst the most similar groups. Because its personal.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> There are no Ethnic Americans, but there are certainly ethnic swedes and ethnic Russians.



How do you figure?? My wife would have disagreed there is ethnic Swede. 




thetutle said:


> You define it by descent, appearance, culture language & religion. And yeah, it does exist because people identify with it and exclude others from it.
> 
> No, they share culture, religion, language similarities also. They are very closely related groups.
> 
> They are when compared to Africans or Asians.
> 
> They might not think so, but they are. Not all germans, I'm talking western germans, much less so the bavarians.
> 
> You are probably just confused because of your mixed ethnic and racial background. You dont neatly fit into any group, You can just say you are American. A lot of it what you consider yourself and what others accept you as.
> 
> Like you, I have other ethnic groups in my family, and I can also try to identify with them, like German, but if I Turn up to a village in Germany, with my name and Language skills and religion and world views, it would take a huge huge effort before I would be accepted as an ethnic German. Like never.
> 
> So back to Ukranians, They exist, they seem very determined to be free and independent and are locked into a war with probably the closest ethnic groups to them in this world. This is not unusual by the way. The most bitter conflicts are amongst the most similar groups. Because its personal.



And I think we have derailed this thread long enough. Let's just agree to disagree.


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> How do you figure?? My wife would have disagreed there is ethnic Swede.


Americans are not an ethnic group just yet. Just look at those that identify as American. They are largely English with some north European background. Maybe one day they will be an ethnic group. 

A swede says there are no ethnic swedes? Well, she is either not an ethnic swede or just someone with a woke agenda saying nonsense. 

Most countries in europe give you a passport if you can show you are of their ethnic group. So ethnic groups do exist and are recognised by most European countries and they have their metrics on how to measure if you belong to that group our not. 

For example, if you can prove you are a part of that ethnic group, there are countries in the EU that will give you a passport even if you or your ancestors have never even lived or been to that country.


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## TopGun786

Don't know the authenticity though


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## fatman17

Ukrainian Su-24, Su-27, MiG-29 and two Su-25s shot down in one day


The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation announced that on January 8, the Russian Air and Space Forces [VKS] shot down five Ukrainian warplanes.




bulgarianmilitary.com

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> He is imprisoned in an island, most likely in England.
> 
> 
> Only 10 them they will donate, and the Russian drones with those guided tank busters are waiting for them. Rest assured, they won't make much of a difference in the battle-field.



As far as I know Lord Voldemort resides in the UK. Anyone else is an invention based on your hateful agenda.

UK is in indeed an Island , therefore they don't have many tanks to spare . This is clearly a demonstrative move , to influence Germany to free their leopard 2 ,

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## Viet

Primus said:


> Challenger 2 MBT are not suited for Urban combat. No tank is really asides merkava which was designed with urban combat in mind.
> 
> If it's sent into Bakhmut then thats just a waste of a good tank. Challenger 2 can make a big difference on the fields of Donbass however


Not urban combats
That’s for the Wagners at Bakhmut at the outer skirts and northern front at Soledar, Kremina. the hooligans try to storm Ukraine defense lines since months. they hide in trenches. Tanks will root them out.


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## kingQamaR

Balmut. Reminds me of Verdun it also was a planned meat grinder by the Germans where the French had to send thousands of soldiers in order to defend it.

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## sammuel

''









Sweden pledges to provide Ukraine with Archer artillery systems.


Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson pledged on Jan. 9 that Ukraine would receive Archer self-propelled artillery systems, following discussions about such supplies last year.




news.yahoo.com


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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> Balmut. Reminds me of Verdun it also was a planned meat grinder by the Germans where the French had to send thousands of soldiers in order to defend it.


Almost the same
Verdun is France’s strongest defense on the eastern flank, same for Bakhmut for Ukraine. Neither France nor Ukraine can’t afford to lose. Strategically both Verdun and Bakhmut are not important. Cities with few thousands inhabitants, no industrial no weapons manufacturing. It’s just symbolic for the population the gov can say hey! Look, our armies will defend the fortress until the bitter end, no matter the costs.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Who's willing to bet this is not made out of metal and just larp gear?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612710075881381889


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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> UK is in indeed an Island , therefore they don't have many tanks to spare . This is clearly a demonstrative move , to influence Germany to free their leopard 2 ,



Everyone has an obsession with Germany. This was not Berlin's war; this was an American-British-led war. Germans are victims of this war. Their Nord Stream pipeline II was destroyed. It was done to ensure Russian gas backing the Euro monetary system doesn't go forward. Instead, the Anglo-American elites want the the petrol-dollar system to remain the fiat money of the world. So, if anyone is paying attention, this should let you who is behind the explosion(s) that destroyed the Nord Stream II pipeline.

With that in mind, the Germans should drag their feet in any way possible and shouldn't provide any meaningful weapons to the Ukrainians. They themselves are victims of this war imposed on Russia. Therefore, it makes no sense for them to prolong this manufactured conflict by the Americans and the Brits. And if the American and British elites want the war to go on, they should pay for it and provide the arms. No reason to make any demands to the Germans or anyone else.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> 10 tanks can make a difference my friend. At least at Bakhmut. Not that easy to target the western tanks. They are very agile very protected. With western tanks coming Ukraine will adopt NATO standard of “Gefecht der verbundenen Waffen” or combined arms battle. The tanks will not run alone. They run along with aviation and infantry.
> 
> 
> View attachment 910578




I have neither seen nor heard a nation in the midst of a war, facing a powerful army, who bet everything on dozen tanks and non-existing aviation. These tanks are sitting ducks for Russia's guided anti-tank weapons, some of them can be fired at least 3 or 4 KMs away. So get real, a dozen tanks from UK and France, and 50 IFVs from the US wouldn't alter the balance of power. 

Russians have transformed their industry into a war production, meaning most of their factories are geared towards winning this war. Their factories are working 24 hours, and anyone with a technical degree is directed to work in the arms industry. They're rolling artillery pieces, tanks, ammunition, and helicopters in a rate that you can't imagine.

Russians are also filling the gap in their arms industry by reaching out to countries like Iran, China, and DPRK, and acquiring whatever that was missing in the puzzle. This is where those Shaheed-136s/131 drones and DPRK's artillery pieces come into the picture.

So when you compare Russia getting into war production mode with Ukraine getting different weapons from different countries and the time they need to learn them, it is obvious you can't compare the two. You may not like it but the conclusion of this war on who the winner will be is very obvious.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> Almost the same
> Verdun is France’s strongest defense on the eastern flank, same for Bakhmut for Ukraine. Neither France nor Ukraine can’t afford to lose. Strategically both Verdun and Bakhmut are not important. Cities with few thousands inhabitants, no industrial no weapons manufacturing. It’s just symbolic for the population the gov can say hey! Look, our armies will defend the fortress until the bitter end, no matter the costs.




It is stupid for Ukraine to lose 10s of thousands of men to defend a small place like Bakhmut. It is really makes no any military sense to lose over 35,000 soldiers in a place that has no significant population or an industrial base.

Instead, the Ukrainians could've opened a second front where they could've relieved the pressure from Bakhmut. They could've also focused on cutting down the Russian supply lines that sustain the grinding Bakhmut offensive.

As for the Russians, it makes perfect sense to pool their resources on this front and maintain the grinding and the gradual assault on the huge Ukrainian soldiers who were all gathered in Bakhmut. This is a perfect chance for Russia to kill or cripple the most experienced Ukrainian forces, and as we can all see it is all going well. 

So when you compare the tactical and strategies that these opposing armies are pursuing in Bakhmut, you can see the Russian approach makes perfect sense. This is the reason why the Ukrainian casualty rate is far higher than the Russians in Bakhmut.

This should also explain why Russians withdrew the East side of Kherson. They didn't want this front to distract their offensive in the Bakhmut front, and it is paying dividend.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It is stupid for Ukraine to lose 10s of thousands of men to defend a small place like Bakhmut. It is really makes no any military sense to lose over 35,000 soldiers in a place that has no significant population or an industrial base.
> 
> Instead, the Ukrainians could've opened a second front where they could've relieved the pressure from Bakhmut. They could've also focused on cutting down the Russian supply lines that sustain the grinding Bakhmut offensive.
> 
> As for the Russians, it makes perfect sense to pool their resources on this front and maintain the grinding and the gradual assault on the huge Ukrainian soldiers who were all gathered in Bakhmut. This is a perfect chance for Russia to kill or cripple the most experienced Ukrainian forces, and as we can all see it is all going well.
> 
> So when you compare the tactical and strategies that these opposing armies are pursuing in Bakhmut, you can see the Russian approach makes perfect sense. This is the reason why the Ukrainian casualty rate is far higher than the Russians in Bakhmut.
> 
> This should also explain why Russians withdrew the East side of Kherson. They didn't want this front to distract their offensive in the Bakhmut front, and it is paying dividend.


So we have months long frontal assaults on fortified urban defenses manned by better trained defenders. 

Assuming higher ukranian casualties (let alone much much higher…) is pure copium going against all military logic.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612579277412732930
> Bradleys
> Strykers
> Challengers
> Leopards
> AMX-10s
> Marders
> HMMWV
> PATRIOTS
> HIMARS
> M777
> M109
> M270
> 
> Next up:
> 
> ABRAMS
> ATACMS
> MQ 9s
> Apache
> Black Hawk
> F-15
> F-16
> THAAD
> 
> 
> #PrayForRussia @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



You'll have these 3 anti-tank guided weapons waiting for them: 1) The"Vikhr" Anti-tank Missile; 2) the Khrizantema; 3) the Kornet anti-tank missile.














The Strykers IFVs will be a joke in this conflict. Perhaps you should read the below article. 👇









Never Bring a Stryker to a Tank Fight - Modern War Institute


Any armchair Patton will tell you that it’s not a good idea to use a Stryker formation against a tank formation. But in a recent article for the Modern War […]




mwi.usma.edu

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> So we have months long frontal assaults on fortified urban defenses manned by better trained defenders.
> 
> Assuming higher ukranian casualties (let alone much much higher…) is pure copium going against all military logic.



This pretty much sums up. 👇 The Bakhmut meat grinder has taken its toll on the Ukrainians.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612567365576974336
Better trained soldiers who were sitting ducks for aerial, artillery, and grand assaults.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This pretty much sums up. 👇 The Bakhmut meat grinder has taken its toll on the Ukrainians.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612567365576974336
> Better trained soldiers who were sitting ducks for aerial, artillery, and grand assaults.



So why is Russia wasting so much ressources on Bakhmut if this town is without any significant importance ? Why are Russians dying in thousands in frontal wave assaults ? Meat grinder but the field is so full of Russian bodies. Despite total Russian superiority in terms of cannon fodder, aviation, artillery those incompetent drunkards have advanced something like hundreds meters since the summer, a great performance indeed that will probably go down in history.

The battle of Bakhmut shows totally the Russian military incompetence, wasting so much ressources on Bakhmut and diverting important forces while Ukraine is preparing to outflank them in the north of the Luhansk oblast and will soon probably start a southern offensive once the weather conditions are optimal for armored assaults.

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## One_Nation

Russian woman explains frustration with being hated everywhere. 






This looks terrible for Russian people who are good at keeping their silence in the face of suffering which in turn makes them look strong. Videos like these show they are not immune to pressure.


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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russians have transformed their industry into a war production, meaning most of their factories are geared towards winning this war. Their factories are working 24 hours, and anyone with a technical degree is directed to work in the arms industry. They're rolling artillery pieces, tanks, ammunition, and helicopters in a rate that you can't imagine.
> 
> Russians are also filling the gap in their arms industry by reaching out to countries like Iran, China, and DPRK, and acquiring whatever that was missing in the puzzle. This is where those Shaheed-136s/131 drones and DPRK's artillery pieces come into the picture.


All done for a 3 day operation. wow.

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## vizier

I think the most feasible short term solution would be ta achieve a ceasefire. That would lead its way to negotiations and possible agreemnents in the long term with different Ukrainian, Russian governments. No one can force Ukraine to agree on losing those regions but at least a ceasefire can be achieved. The situation would be tense like North and South Korea but at least further escalation of war would be averted.

Everytime ceasefire subject is brought up Ukraine side gives the excuse of Russia can plan another offensive gathering resources and further mobilisation so they can't remove their grip from southern regions to keep Russian forces focusing there. This needs to be clarified by Russian side officially from the top to remove this excuse by saying that there won't be further operations and expansions into Kharkiv, Sumy, Kiev, Odessa or in any other part of Ukraine after the ceasefire including Bakhmut. The SMO aims and limits should be declared officially as an initial step with its limits and there wont be further advances or aims by Russia.

Additionally eventhough the regions are recognized by Russia the borders are not recognized yet. In Kherson and Zhaporijia Russia can leave downward to much smaller sector and northern parts of Kherson,Zaporijia would be a buffer zone stationing UN peace keeping forces leaving administration of those regions to Ukraine as well almost as before the pre-war conditions. The buffer zone would be a security guarantee for Crimea as well which Russia wants. Ukraine wont be forced to recognize Crimea or Donbass and economic sanctions are the price for keeping those regions for Russia to solve this issue with future agreements with Ukraine. At least the current meat grinder situation for both sides and a possible Crimea based nuclear escalation situation can be averted now instead of later which can be too late.


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## gambit

vizier said:


> I think the most feasible short term solution would be ta achieve a ceasefire. That would lead its way to negotiations and possible agreemnents in the long term with different Ukrainian, Russian governments. No one can force Ukraine to agree on losing those regions but at least a ceasefire can be achieved. The situation would be tense like North and South Korea but at least further escalation of war would be averted.
> 
> Everytime ceasefire subject is brought up Ukraine side gives the excuse of Russia can plan another offensive gathering resources and further mobilisation so they can't remove their grip from southern regions to keep Russian forces focusing there. This needs to be clarified by Russian side officially from the top to remove this excuse by saying that there won't be further operations and expansions into Kharkiv, Sumy, Kiev, Odessa or in any other part of Ukraine after the ceasefire including Bakhmut. The SMO aims and limits should be declared officially as an initial step with its limits and there wont be further advances or aims by Russia.
> 
> Additionally eventhough the regions are recognized by Russia the borders are not recognized yet. In Kherson and Zhaporijia Russia can leave downward to much smaller sector and northern parts of Kherson,Zaporijia would be a buffer zone stationing UN peace keeping forces leaving administration of those regions to Ukraine as well almost as before the pre-war conditions. The buffer zone would be a security guarantee for Crimea as well which Russia wants. Ukraine wont be forced to recognize Crimea or Donbass and economic sanctions are the price for keeping those regions for Russia to solve this issue with future agreements with Ukraine. At least the current meat grinder situation for both sides and a possible Crimea based nuclear escalation situation can be averted now instead of later which can be too late.


What you asked is reasonable, but there is a risk.

Prior to WW II, China was weak on the international stage, and JPN occupied Manchuria. The US, believing that China was essentially a nobody, spoke for China and conceded Manchuria to JPN. The result were the atrocities the JPNese committed to the Chinese in Manchuria.

History is not kind to concessions.


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## jhungary

vizier said:


> I think the most feasible short term solution would be ta achieve a ceasefire. That would lead its way to negotiations and possible agreemnents in the long term with different Ukrainian, Russian governments. No one can force Ukraine to agree on losing those regions but at least a ceasefire can be achieved. The situation would be tense like North and South Korea but at least further escalation of war would be averted.
> 
> Everytime ceasefire subject is brought up Ukraine side gives the excuse of Russia can plan another offensive gathering resources and further mobilisation so they can't remove their grip from southern regions to keep Russian forces focusing there. This needs to be clarified by Russian side officially from the top to remove this excuse by saying that there won't be further operations and expansions into Kharkiv, Sumy, Kiev, Odessa or in any other part of Ukraine after the ceasefire including Bakhmut. The SMO aims and limits should be declared officially as an initial step with its limits and there wont be further advances or aims by Russia.
> 
> Additionally eventhough the regions are recognized by Russia the borders are not recognized yet. In Kherson and Zhaporijia Russia can leave downward to much smaller sector and northern parts of Kherson,Zaporijia would be a buffer zone stationing UN peace keeping forces leaving administration of those regions to Ukraine as well almost as before the pre-war conditions. The buffer zone would be a security guarantee for Crimea as well which Russia wants. Ukraine wont be forced to recognize Crimea or Donbass and economic sanctions are the price for keeping those regions for Russia to solve this issue with future agreements with Ukraine. At least the current meat grinder situation for both sides and a possible Crimea based nuclear escalation situation can be averted now instead of later which can be too late.


Problem is, as always "Trust" 

There are no trust left between Russia and Ukraine, each side will see the other side of lying, on the other hand, you have Russian doing not really a good job to warrant a cease fire to begin with (it's not like Russia is in anyway threaten Kyiv) so without one side at underhand, and both sides don't trust each other, there can never be negotiation. 

The only thing can push Ukraine into Negotiation (as I said, Russia is not really at a position advantage enough to call for one) is NATO, Ukraine will most likely talk if NATO guarantee their security future, but then would Russia comply? Seeing not wanting Ukraine join NATO is one of the reasons why Russia invaded. 

So, the end result sadly is, Ukraine won't trust Russia for not ever going to attempt this again, and Russia will not trust Ukraine not to join NATO, hence the war continue. 

The only reasonable point this war is going to have a cease fire is one side dominating the other. And at this stage, neither Russia nor Ukraine have the upper hand.


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## mike2000 is back

thetutle said:


> Russian sources are saying that British women are trading sex for heat and food. Can you confirm or deny this? Are you in the UK?


The same RUSSIAN sources and Russian government itself have always claimed the srebrenica massacre was a lie and made up. Yet funny enough they used it to also justify their intervention in Ukraine saying they wanted to avoid a srebrenica like massacre in Ukraine . Lol 

However, if you are a Bosnian Serb, then it makes sense to believe "Russian sources" due to obvious reasons of closeness with Russia. 
So i won't even bother with Russian Propaganda/disinformation, since its quite common and i know their tricks.

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## vizier

gambit said:


> What you asked is reasonable, but there is a risk.
> 
> Prior to WW II, China was weak on the international stage, and JPN occupied Manchuria. The US, believing that China was essentially a nobody, spoke for China and conceded Manchuria to JPN. The result were the atrocities the JPNese committed to the Chinese in Manchuria.
> 
> History is not kind to concessions.




If Russia retreats from Kherson and Zaporijia southwards to a much smaller sector as well as some smaller new taken area north of Donetsk Luhansk leaving those areas as a buffer zone stationing UN forces it would be almost return to pre-war conditions where they had control in Crimea and Donetsk Luhansk already so there wont be further escalation in those Russian controlled regions in my opinion and the situation won't change much. They would get the security guarantee for Crimea,Donbas regions but with continuing price of economic sanctions that would continue unless they make agreement with Ukraine.

Both sides can accuse locals as collaborating with other side so both Ukraine in regained administrative regions in Kherson Zaporijia should not start an arrest spree of locals as collaborators as well as Russia in its currently controlled regions hunting accused resistance fighters etc. No further arresting operations should be made that should be agreed beforehand. Also Russia won't be turning into Japan of WW2 and start gaining more land since I believe the officials already understood the consequences of starting a war in asymmetric warfare conditions even facing much smaller forces of Ukraine and the difficulty of getting out of it once it starts.


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## gambit

vizier said:


> If Russia retreats from Kherson and Zaporijia southwards to a much smaller sector as well as some smaller new taken area north of Donetsk Luhansk leaving those areas as a buffer zone stationing UN forces it would be almost return to pre-war conditions where they had control in Crimea and Donetsk Luhansk already so there wont be further escalation in those Russian controlled regions in my opinion and the situation won't change much. They would get the security guarantee for Crimea,Donbas regions but with continuing price of economic sanctions that would continue unless they make agreement with Ukraine.
> 
> Both sides can accuse locals as collaborating with other side so both Ukraine in regained administrative regions in Kherson Zaporijia should not start an arrest spree of locals as collaborators as well as Russia in its currently controlled regions hunting accused resistance fighters etc. No further arresting operations should be made that should be agreed beforehand. Also Russia won't be turning into Japan of WW2 and start gaining more land since I believe the officials already understood the consequences of starting a war in asymmetric warfare conditions even facing much smaller forces of Ukraine and the difficulty of getting out of it once it starts.


You are -- essentially -- asking the Ukrainians to concede some territory. So how about for negotiations, Ukraine can ask Russia to concede that Ukraine can join NATO. Not that it mattered anyway given what Russia done...

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## vizier

jhungary said:


> Problem is, as always "Trust"
> 
> There are no trust left between Russia and Ukraine, each side will see the other side of lying, on the other hand, you have Russian doing not really a good job to warrant a cease fire to begin with (it's not like Russia is in anyway threaten Kyiv) so without one side at underhand, and both sides don't trust each other, there can never be negotiation.
> 
> The only thing can push Ukraine into Negotiation (as I said, Russia is not really at a position advantage enough to call for one) is NATO, Ukraine will most likely talk if NATO guarantee their security future, but then would Russia comply? Seeing not wanting Ukraine join NATO is one of the reasons why Russia invaded.
> 
> So, the end result sadly is, Ukraine won't trust Russia for not ever going to attempt this again, and Russia will not trust Ukraine not to join NATO, hence the war continue.
> 
> The only reasonable point this war is going to have a cease fire is one side dominating the other. And at this stage, neither Russia nor Ukraine have the upper hand.




Ukraine aims for EU. there are European countries like France which can be a guarantor country as well as several others. This can be a solution after the ceasefire. Germany, Hungary and many Nato members won't accept Ukraine anyways it is the collective agreement that matters for joining. If Russia clarifies its position limiting SMO objectives officially declaring that it won't involve anywhere else like Odessa, Sumy etc. and ready to give buffer zones it would somewhat give Ukraine the upper hand but at the same time provide security for Crimea and Donbas regions controlled by Russia. 

Russian allies also provide support indirectly like drones(Geran-2 and possible joint production of Lancet like drones). Further joint production of these items would not grant Russia victory but will not make Ukraine advance further easily as well. Especially after Russia shows willingness by accepting concesssions and no further operations there would be further support by its allies claiming Ukraine is responsible for ending the conflict with a ceasefire. It would be an excuse to provide more support. It would be a deadlock for a long time.


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## jhungary

vizier said:


> Ukraine aims for EU. there are European countries like France which can be a guarantor country as well as several others. This can be a solution after the ceasefire. Germany, Hungary and many Nato members won't accept Ukraine anyways it is the collective agreement that matters for joining. If Russia clarifies its position limiting SMO objectives officially declaring that it won't involve anywhere else like Odessa, Sumy etc. and ready to give buffer zones it would somewhat give Ukraine the upper hand but at the same time provide security for Crimea and Donbas regions controlled by Russia.
> 
> Russian allies also provide support indirectly like drones(Geran-2 and possible joint production of Lancet like drones). Further joint production of these items would not grant Russia victory but will not make Ukraine advance further easily as well. Especially after Russia shows willingness by accepting concesssions and no further operations there would be further support by its allies claiming Ukraine is responsible for ending the conflict with a ceasefire. It would be an excuse to provide more support. It would be a deadlock for a long time.


That is before Russian invasion. EU does not have a binding mutual defence treaty.

And there are no binding pact other than NATO will provide Ukrainian security partnership, so whether or not Ukraine would be able to join is one thing, they needed NATO membership to be "Secure" is another.

And for the Ukrainian perspective, Russian declaration means nothing. As I said, the trust is gone, it's not something a cease fire can put back in place.

As for whether or not Russia allies provided enough support is another issue.


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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It is stupid for Ukraine to lose 10s of thousands of men to defend a small place like Bakhmut. It is really makes no any military sense to lose over 35,000 soldiers in a place that has no significant population or an industrial base.
> 
> Instead, the Ukrainians could've opened a second front where they could've relieved the pressure from Bakhmut. They could've also focused on cutting down the Russian supply lines that sustain the grinding Bakhmut offensive.
> 
> As for the Russians, it makes perfect sense to pool their resources on this front and maintain the grinding and the gradual assault on the huge Ukrainian soldiers who were all gathered in Bakhmut. This is a perfect chance for Russia to kill or cripple the most experienced Ukrainian forces, and as we can all see it is all going well.
> 
> So when you compare the tactical and strategies that these opposing armies are pursuing in Bakhmut, you can see the Russian approach makes perfect sense. This is the reason why the Ukrainian casualty rate is far higher than the Russians in Bakhmut.
> 
> This should also explain why Russians withdrew the East side of Kherson. They didn't want this front to distract their offensive in the Bakhmut front, and it is paying dividend.


France army lost 500,000 men at Verdun. And what’s the logic? There is no rational logic. It’s just primitive killings. Russia suffered 250,000 in last year. This year will see at least similar Russia’s casualties. We will see who will survive.


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This pretty much sums up. 👇 The Bakhmut meat grinder has taken its toll on the Ukrainians.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612567365576974336
> Better trained soldiers who were sitting ducks for aerial, artillery, and grand assaults.


So we have urban fortified defenses and sometimes tunnels…prepared for months…
Russias excuse for not breaking through after 5 months. 

yet defenders are at the same time also supposedly “sitting ducks” (how? They are heavily entrenched) for russia’s aerial attack (poor, no air dominance), grand “squad size frontal” assault (hahaha please) and artillery. 
The latter is the only one with some merit but artillery advantage has been greatly reduced over course of the war and less accurate then Ukraine’s. 

So simply contrary to all military logic. 
Sorry buddy, there is a reason we see so many videos of dead russians littering the fields.

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## vizier

gambit said:


> You are -- essentially -- asking the Ukrainians to concede some territory. So how about for negotiations, Ukraine can ask Russia to concede that Ukraine can join NATO. Not that it mattered anyway given what Russia done...




Ukraine wont be asked to recognize any inch of land belonging to Russia. It would be like returning to pre-war conditions with incurring costs for Russia with economic consequences of sanctions and isolation from Europe unless agreement is reached with Ukraine. This way even in not Putins time future Russian governments would make agreements and concessions with Ukraine possibly giving the Donbass land back with Minsk 3 type of agreements. In Crimea similar concessions can be given by Russia later on instead of ongoing warfware with nuclear escalation possibility for many more years.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Unless my ex-Ukrainian girlfriend lies to me. A person only speak Ukrainian will not understand Russian no matter how slow he or she speak. The word structure and the context are different. While yes, some words are the similar, but with my basic understand of both languages, I would say it is closer to an English Speaker talk to a German Speaker speaking their respective language.
> 
> This is not even at the team of a Chinese Speaker and a Japanese Speaker or Spanish and Portuguese.


I always taught its more spanish speaker talk to Italian speaker situation i heard about more than 60% lexical similarity .
well to be fair Spanish and Italian have around 80% similarity


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> 10 tanks can make a difference my friend. At least at Bakhmut. Not that easy to target the western tanks. They are very agile very protected. With western tanks coming Ukraine will adopt NATO standard of “Gefecht der verbundenen Waffen” or combined arms battle. The tanks will not run alone. They run along with aviation and infantry.
> 
> 
> View attachment 910578


2-3 day ago people were talking tanks in number less than hundreds can't make a difference and they are not like system such as Himars , now the narration changed ?


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## F-22Raptor

The U.S. is considering sending Stryker armored combat vehicles to Ukraine in an upcoming aid package to help Kyiv fend off an expected Russian spring offensive, according to two people familiar with the discussion.

The news follows the Biden administration’s announcement last week that it will send 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, a powerful tracked armored vehicle that carries an autocannon, a machine gun and TOW missiles.

While Strykers are not as powerful or protective as tanks, the eight-wheeled armored fighting vehicle built by General Dynamics Land Systems can operate in snow, mud and sand, though off-road mobility is somewhat limited by its lack of tracks.

“Ukrainians need armored personnel carriers and short of other countries providing it, is what we have in inventory,” the DoD official said. “Not as good as a Bradley for a tank fight, but good to protect infantry and get up close to a fight.”









Pentagon weighs sending Stryker combat vehicles to Ukraine


If approved, the shipment would add to the number of armored infantry vehicles being sent to the front lines by multiple countries.




www.politico.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612727170123845632

Strykers are next!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612736985440862209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612769607449812992

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612796447656935433


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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Who's willing to bet this is not made out of metal and just larp gear?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612710075881381889


next supply shipment.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612775461309792260


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612782655061331968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612785426359635968

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612800207221145600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612801081439928323

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## F-22Raptor

The official said that Russia “cannot sustain these kinds of losses.”

“If Russia does eventually seize Bakhmut, Russia will surely characterize this, misleadingly, as a ‘major victory,” the official added. “But we know that is not the case. If the cost for each 36 square miles of Ukraine [the approximate size of Bakhmut] is thousands of Russians over seven months, this is the definition of Pyrrhic victory.”









Russian artillery fire down nearly 75%, US officials say, in latest sign of struggles for Moscow | CNN Politics


As Russia's invasion of Ukraine enters its 11th month, US and Ukrainian officials tell CNN that Russia's artillery fire is down dramatically from its wartime high, in some places by as much as 75 percent.




edition.cnn.com


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> I always taught its more spanish speaker talk to Italian speaker situation i heard about more than 60% lexical similarity .
> well to be fair Spanish and Italian have around 80% similarity


I speak Spanish, I can understand almost everything a Portugese said if he/she speak slowly, but I don't understand shit anything about Italian.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612810324113072128

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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> Almost the same
> Verdun is France’s strongest defense on the eastern flank, same for Bakhmut for Ukraine. Neither France nor Ukraine can’t afford to lose. Strategically both Verdun and Bakhmut are not important. Cities with few thousands inhabitants, no industrial no weapons manufacturing. It’s just symbolic for the population the gov can say hey! Look, our armies will defend the fortress until the bitter end, no matter the costs.



Hi

Actually Bakhmut is a strategic location for both sides of the war , True Russians wants it to the city to attack Kramatorsk and Slovyansk, Horlivka, Donetsk, Alchevs’k and Luhansk and Ukrainian needs to keep Bakhmut to defend Kramatorsk and Slovyansk but it is also a gateway to Lysychansk Horlivka which are in turn a gateway to both Donetsk in the south and Luhansk to the east . Ukraine knows Bakhmut can not fall at all and Russia knows they to capture Bakhmut at any cost. 

It’s a Verdun for both A nasty meat grinder


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612829980051881985

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> I speak Spanish, I can understand almost everything a Portugese said if he/she speak slowly, but I don't understand shit anything about Italian.


interesting, maybe had something to do with accent , because i heard otherwise from some people


----------



## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> Hi
> 
> Actually Bakhmut is a strategic location for both sides of the war , True Russians wants it to the city to attack Kramatorsk and Slovyansk, Horlivka, Donetsk, Alchevs’k and Luhansk and Ukrainian needs to keep Bakhmut to defend Kramatorsk and Slovyansk but it is also a gateway to Lysychansk Horlivka which are in turn a gateway to both Donetsk in the south and Luhansk to the east . Ukraine knows Bakhmut can not fall at all and Russia knows they to capture Bakhmut at any cost.
> 
> It’s a Verdun for both A nasty meat grinder


Well, people can argue Bakhmut is strategic, but is it not the same for every city in Ukraine? If Putin’s army captured one city after the other at some point Ukraine loses the war.
It makes no sense to frontal assault a heavily defended city at Donbas. It’s not better to attack from the flanks or elsewhere? How will the Russians attack and capture it without tanks and aviation?
For me the Wagner hooligans and Russian troops are either dumb or suicide lemmings.


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## sammuel

~

Why do the Russians want Bakhmut so much ?

For 5 mounts and after who know how many casualties, Russia is still trying to take this small town , and no one understands why.

Here is one possible expalnation :

This seems consistent with Wagner’s modus operandi in Africa, where the group’s military activities often function hand in hand with control of mining assets . This could be the incentives that driving Prigozhin , head of wagner mercenaries , “obsession” with taking Bakhmut.

You can take this theory with as much " grains of salt " you want. But this is what Prigozhin himself said :










Wagner boss says he wants Bakhmut in Ukraine for its 'underground cities'


The founder of Russia's Wagner group said on 7 January he wanted his forces and the regular Russian army to capture the small city of Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine because it possessed "underground cities" that can hold troops and tanks.




www.euractiv.com














Wagner chief ‘obsessed’ with capturing Bakhmut for its salt mines, US says


Yevgeny Prigozhin, who is often called 'Putin's chef', is determined to capture the city despite it having little strategic value




www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612795457180246017
Even China has come to terms with reality

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## mike2000 is back

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612800207221145600
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612801081439928323


Wait , so Russia is sending prisoners to Ukraine? Wow.....can only imagine the atrocities those prisoners have been committing against the people of Ukraine. 
For them to start using prisoners shows how much Russia is getting desperate . Lol

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## sammuel

mike2000 is back said:


> Wait , so Russia is sending prisoners to Ukraine? Wow.....



See for yourself :


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

sammuel said:


> ''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden pledges to provide Ukraine with Archer artillery systems.
> 
> 
> Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson pledged on Jan. 9 that Ukraine would receive Archer self-propelled artillery systems, following discussions about such supplies last year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com


That is a misunderstanding.
It is under diskussion, but no committment has been made.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612795457180246017
> Even China has come to terms with reality



The US military is on a whole different level

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612575543513305105
Russian Media: Something big will happen next week..
@US_World1


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612504570999017488

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## The SC

Soledar is encircled..

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## Viet

The Belarus invasion of Ukraine is coming. Ukraine says she is prepared. 40 percent of Ukraine territories or 250,000 km2 are covered by mines. The largest mine field in the world, or probably the largest ever in history. the mine fields will slow down enemy advance, behind the mine field are rows of artillery batteries.










Ukraine-Liveblog: ++ Kiew: Lage im Raum Bachmut wird schwieriger ++


Die Verteidigung der ostukrainischen Stadt Bachmut wird offenbar immer schwieriger - Kiew räumte Probleme ein. Belarusische und russische Truppen üben laut Minsk gemeinsam die Kriegsführung in Städten. Die Entwicklungen vom Sonntag zum Nachlesen.




www.tagesschau.de


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## The SC

Soledar Operationally Encircled | Soledar In Depth Analysis | Full Front Update​

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612803853166219265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612895855710961664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612895522783899648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612840101373173761

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612455636410810370
How can a president take away someone's citizenship especially if he/she was born in that country?  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612906594605596673

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612736985440862209
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612769607449812992


too little too late - Ukrainian military is losing Bakhmut and Soledar quicker than anyone expected -fact!

Ukraine's military logistics backend is obviously fukd up- war is logistics- if your logistics breaks down, you lose the war.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612871547819102208

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612893605647028231

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612871860030476295

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612802529968132101

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> The Belarus invasion of Ukraine is coming. Ukraine says she is prepared. 40 percent of Ukraine territories or 250,000 km2 are covered by mines. The largest mine field in the world, or probably the largest ever in history. the mine fields will slow down enemy advance, behind the mine field are rows of artillery batteries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Liveblog: ++ Kiew: Lage im Raum Bachmut wird schwieriger ++
> 
> 
> Die Verteidigung der ostukrainischen Stadt Bachmut wird offenbar immer schwieriger - Kiew räumte Probleme ein. Belarusische und russische Truppen üben laut Minsk gemeinsam die Kriegsführung in Städten. Die Entwicklungen vom Sonntag zum Nachlesen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de



The problem russia has is it has lost the element of suprise from the north. It has not found an answer to Javelins/nlaws/himar/tb2 drones that will pick off any invasion that is in the open. Its logistics capability is even worse than before the war has started and it has lost its best soliders already.

If there is an operation from the north - it is to just attempt to get ukraine to dilute ukranian forces to ease pressure in the south by diverting troops to the north.

It is difficult to know the size of the ukranian army - but it is alot lot lot bigger than it was at the start of the war and they are far more experienced.

The ability of the russian airforce to operate freely has gone down alot with the supply of western sam systems aswell.

NATO can alleviate pressure from Belarus to Ukraine by positioning more NATO forces closer to Belarus - will give the little tin pot dictator in Belarus food for thought aswell ...

I guess *Oryx* will need to stock up on lots of coffee at an industrial level as there will need to be a lot of counting of new blown up russian armour equipment coming soon ...

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Well, people can argue Bakhmut is strategic, but is it not the same for every city in Ukraine? If Putin’s army captured one city after the other at some point Ukraine loses the war.
> It makes no sense to frontal assault a heavily defended city at Donbas. It’s not better to attack from the flanks or elsewhere? How will the Russians attack and capture it without tanks and aviation?
> For me the Wagner hooligans and Russian troops are either dumb or suicide lemmings.


bakhmut was not strategic , no doubt just a meat grinder. soon it will be forgotten and then another city , village or hamlet will be turned into a meat grinder , WW1 relived



sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> Why do the Russians want Bakhmut so much ?
> 
> For 5 mounts and after who know how many casualties, Russia is still trying to take this small town , and no one understands why.
> 
> Here is one possible expalnation :
> 
> This seems consistent with Wagner’s modus operandi in Africa, where the group’s military activities often function hand in hand with control of mining assets . This could be the incentives that driving Prigozhin , head of wagner mercenaries , “obsession” with taking Bakhmut.
> 
> You can take this theory with as much " grains of salt " you want. But this is what Prigozhin himself said :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wagner boss says he wants Bakhmut in Ukraine for its 'underground cities'
> 
> 
> The founder of Russia's Wagner group said on 7 January he wanted his forces and the regular Russian army to capture the small city of Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine because it possessed "underground cities" that can hold troops and tanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euractiv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wagner chief ‘obsessed’ with capturing Bakhmut for its salt mines, US says
> 
> 
> Yevgeny Prigozhin, who is often called 'Putin's chef', is determined to capture the city despite it having little strategic value
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk


at the start of war they get the city but later they easily (you may say too easily) they let it fall in Ukraine hand , you wonder why if that's their interest in the city


----------



## ZeGerman

925boy said:


> too little too late - Ukrainian military is losing Bakhmut and Soledar quicker than anyone expected -fact!
> 
> Ukraine's military logistics backend is obviously fukd up- war is logistics- if your logistics breaks down, you lose the war.


So 5 months is quicker then anyone expected? Can you screenshot that? 
Mr. screenshot? 

Also never mind it has still not yet been fully taken

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## aviator_fan

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're really delusional and fit into the typical Westerner who wave the flag and swallow everything he (or she) hears from their mainstream media and politicians. Donating ten challenger tanks is an insult to the injury. After more than 100, 000 deaths, 100s of 1000s more of casualties and over 13 million refugees suffered by Ukrainians, UK - who is one of the main countries in the West who pushed for this war - is giving Ukraine 10 tanks? If that is not an insult, I don't know what it is.
> 
> If the Ukrainian military leaders are paying attention to how the West is responding and have any form of patriotism and love left for their country, there should be a coup in Uktraine and should call for ceasefire and peace treaty with Russia. Their country and the blood and treasure of their people have been used as sacrificial lambs in order to bleed the Russians.
> 
> The West is truly evil. They set these 2 countries (Russia and Ukraine) against each other, and all they care about is bleeding Russia, of course on the blood and suffering of Ukrainians. This is what you should understand about the West: It is the home center of the Antichrist.


I thought Anti-christ was a person, not a society or a military alliance. It also started with a few HIMARS and led to more.

You are not Ukranian (and not sure who on this thread is). Ultimately they chose to stand ground in the first 45 days and deny Russia its advantage. Ukrainians are not mindless drones at the mercy of their military backers.

They likely (I say this since clearly I am not from there, no more than you are Russian) decided to stand ground in Feb/March vs. surrender. That burns you, thats too bad. 

They certainly don't need a keyboard warrior like you making idiotic religious analogies to come to their defence. They will do their dying if they wish and can stop when they wish.

You and rest of us will keep typing away here.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> interesting, maybe had something to do with accent , because i heard otherwise from some people



Well, most word between Portuguese are similar to Spanish and they pronounce the same way Spanish people do. I don't know enough Italian to know anything, but if an Italian person speak Italian to me, I most likely will not have a clue what he or she is talking about.




kingQamaR said:


> Hi
> 
> Actually Bakhmut is a strategic location for both sides of the war , True Russians wants it to the city to attack Kramatorsk and Slovyansk, Horlivka, Donetsk, Alchevs’k and Luhansk and Ukrainian needs to keep Bakhmut to defend Kramatorsk and Slovyansk but it is also a gateway to Lysychansk Horlivka which are in turn a gateway to both Donetsk in the south and Luhansk to the east . Ukraine knows Bakhmut can not fall at all and Russia knows they to capture Bakhmut at any cost.
> 
> It’s a Verdun for both A nasty meat grinder



Bakhmut is only important for Russia if they can retake Lyman and Izyum, you cannot attack big city head on, you need to surround it and cut off most of the road, otherwise it will be a lot harder, if not impossible to take a big City like Sloviansk or Kramatorsk. Both being at least twice the size of Siverodonetsk and Bakhmut. And the former take Russian 103 days to take, and the later is around 170 days and counting. And if Russian even get that close to both City, their combat power would be degraded to a point it would not survive any assault. As with Odessa, the chance of Russia taking both Kramatosk and Slovanisk is almost all but gone.

Ukraine, on the other hand, have 3 other ways to attack Donetsk and Luhansk, they can either attack thru Svatove and flank Luhansk and then move down to Donetsk (which is what I suspect the Ukrainian is doing or trying to do) or they can attack thru Adviivka and thru Donetsk Interntional Airport. Or a 3rd way, which is to cut off Russian land bridge to Crimea by opening a 3rd front straight down to Melitopol or Mariupol and then move East to flank Donetsk. Which would require tanks to do.

Bear in mind LPR and DNR troop is spreaded quite thin at the moment along the entire frontline to the East 9From Svatove to Donestsk). I think if the West release their tank to Ukraine and the Ukrainian will most likely start a third front and I suspect the Russian would not have answer for that.

On the other hand, as I said many, MANY time, if Ukraine really did push into Svatove, then even if Russia captured Bakhmut, it would be pointless because they would be flanked along the entire line from the North. They would have to withdraw from their position if that happened.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612921320429310015

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612933330785255427


----------



## aviator_fan

This is why the desperation for N. Korean artillery: ain't much left. But as some have said on this forum, this is Putin's success.

That means Russians have no ability to use armor, no ability to use air power, and now with less artillery, they are just going to throw men at this as if its WWI.

Russian artillery fire down nearly 75%, US officials say, in latest sign of struggles for Moscow​



Updated 12:43 PM EST, Tue January 10, 2023











Ukrainian artillerymen fire at a position on the front line near the town of Bakhmut, in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region, on October 31, 2022
Dimitar Dilkoff/AFP/Getty Images

Washington CNN — 

As Russia’s invasion of Ukraine enters its 11th month, US and Ukrainian officials tell CNN that Russia’s artillery fire is down dramatically from its wartime high, in some places by as much as 75%.

US and Ukrainian officials don’t yet have a clear or singular explanation. Russia may be rationing artillery rounds due to low supplies, or it could be part of a broader reassessment of tactics in the face of successful Ukrainian offenses.

Either way, the striking decline in artillery fire is further evidence of Russia’s increasingly weak position on the battlefield nearly a year into its invasion, US and Ukrainian officials told CNN. It also comes as Ukraine is enjoying increased military support from its western allies, with the US and Germany announcing last week that they will be providing Ukrainian forces for the first time with armored fighting vehicles, as well as another Patriot Defense missile battery that will help protect its skies.

Russian President Vladimir Putin, meanwhile, is apparently clambering to shore up domestic political support, US intelligence officials believe, for a war he initially would only describe as a limited “special military operation.”

US officials believe the 36-hour ceasefire Putin ordered in Ukraine last week to allow for the observance of Orthodox Christmas was an attempt to pander to Russia’s extensive Christian population, two people familiar with the intelligence told CNN, as well as an opportunity for Putin to blame Ukrainians for breaking it and paint them as heretical heathens.

‘The bucket is getting smaller’​
Much of the domestic opposition Putin and his generals have faced over the handling of the war has come from one of the Russian leader’s closest allies: Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the mercenary organization Wagner Group. Prigozhin has complained that the Russian Ministry of Defense has botched the war effort, and that Wagner Group should be given more equipment, authority and autonomy to carry out operations in Ukraine.

But Wagner Group has lost thousands of fighters in Ukraine the last two months alone, a senior US official said.

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## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612893605647028231
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612871860030476295
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612802529968132101


Russians do what they do best. Die as fodder for the Tsar.

Too bad many more need to die before they actually oppose the war

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## aviator_fan

From yesterday's Financial Times. Permanently disconnecting from Russian dependency. 

Nothing implies commitment to that new energy supply than investing in infrastructure (terminals) and ships.

This means Russian gas will be in less demand, and so China will pay less for what it can get through the pipeline.

Qataris and Koreans must be the luckiest people on this planet, till Renewables finally kick in at scale.


Industrials. Transport​
Shipbuilders take record LNG tanker orders​Contracts for new vessels more than double in 2022 as gas demand continues to rise​
SHOTARO TANI AND OLIVER TELLING LONDON
SONG JUNG-A — SEOUL
Buoyant market: LNG tankers under construction at Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering in Geoje, South Korea — SeongJoon Cho/Bloomberg
Shipbuilders enjoyed a record year for liquefied natural gas tanker contracts in 2022 — and they expect the boom to continue for some time as demand for the fuel rises.
Global orders for the specialist vessels reached 163 in 2022, data from Refinitiv show, more than double the previous year’s figure and the highest since 2011, the earliest data available.
As prices surge, big South Korean shipbuilders responsible for the bulk of the existing LNG tanker fleets told the Financial Times they expected a boost to their earnings despite high material costs weighing on margins.
But industry observers have warned that elevated steel prices, labour shortages and limits on construction capacity will constrain shipbuilders’ ability to capitalise on the rush for tankers.
“The LNG tanker boom is helping boost our profitability,” said Ka Samhyun, chief executive of Korea Shipbuilding & Offshore Engineering, the world’s largest shipbuilder and the holding company of Hyundai Heavy Industries. “We expect to post full-year profits in 2023,” he added, following two annual net losses.
He said the company expected the trend to “continue at least for the next two to three years, with more than 50 new LNG carriers likely to be ordered a year. Because of tougher environmental regulations, LNG is preferred to coal,” he added. “So demand for LNG tankers will remain firm.”
Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering and Samsung Heavy Industries, which both reported net losses in 2021, also said they expected to notch up profits this year. But Daewoo said high steel prices were “eating into our earnings”, while Samsung said it was in talks with steelmakers “to lower the prices”.
Analysts said the large number of global orders were tied to Qatar’s expansion of its North Field project, a plan to increase the Gulf state’s LNG export capacity from 77mn tonnes a year now to 126mn tonnes by 2027. The International Gas Union estimates that the North Field project alone will need about 150 LNG carriers.
“It is a simple case of supply and demand. [There is] an unprecedented amount of demand coming into the market in a relatively short amount of time,” said Andrew Selby Bennett, head of LNG at shipbroker Braemar. The Qatar orders, he added, were “a once-in-a-lifetime event”.
The majority of 2022’s LNG tanker orders are expected to be delivered by the end of 2026.
Demand for LNG is surging around the globe, with Europe rushing to find alternatives to piped natural gas from Russia in response to the invasion of Ukraine, while developing nations in regions such as Asia try to transition from coal to less polluting natural gas.
To meet demand, LNG projects are being expanded, particularly in the US, now the largest LNG supplier to Europe.
While not expected to reach the same level as 2022, new orders for LNG tankers are likely to continue, said Kaushal Ramesh, head of LNG analytics at Rystad Energy. “Fundamentally, we are not done yet in terms of progressing US projects,” he said. “There will be more sales and purchase agreements announced, possibly through the next couple of years or so. The Qataris are not yet done with their new-build programme for the expansion projects. All of them will need vessels.”
There were 641 LNG tankers, specialised vessels able to carry liquefied gas at -163C, in operation worldwide as of April, IGU data show. Vessels made by Korean shipbuilders accounted for 70 per cent of the total.
Korean shipbuilders also dominated the new orders in 2022, taking 105 orders. Shipbuilding capacity at the Korean companies is full for the next three years. Labour shortage in the sector is leading to higher costs, which is also feeding through to tanker prices.
The average cost of an LNG tanker rose to $250mn in 2022, from $200mn in 2021, industry experts say.
Selby Bennett warned that the benefit of the surging orders for shipbuilders could be “quite marginal”.
“LNG carriers are some of the biggest ships in the world by nature. And they are highly specialised ships and they need specialised personnel. There are just not enough people, experts and space to build this volume of ships.”
The limits on capacity faced by Korean shipyards have driven “a flight towards Chinese shipyards”, said Rystad’s Ramesh. China only had 11 order contracts in 2021 but the number swelled to 57 in 2022, according to Refinitiv data.
Chinese LNG tankers could be $20mn to $30mn cheaper than the Korean vessels, according to Ramesh.
“Some customers seem to be placing orders with Chinese shipyards as they want to get LNG tankers delivered earlier,” said Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering.
“They seem to have no other choice as our order books are nearly full.
“We are not that worried about the immediate impact on our competitiveness but the Chinese will soon gain more experience and knowhow and improve their technology as they build more LNG carriers, even for domestic customers,” it added. “Then, our technology gap with them will narrow in the long term.”
‘There are just not enough people, experts and space to build this volume of ships’



bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612464970523893764
> Me buying asian food to try making a ramen and cook it on my gas stove like always


British women finally started doing what Russian women have been known to do in Britain. You guys in England must be really lucky.....

This is truly the mark of anti-christ when flesh is sold for heating and streaming video right?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

aviator_fan said:


> This is why the desperation for N. Korean artillery: ain't much left. But as some have said on this forum, this is Putin's success
> 
> Russian artillery fire down nearly 75%, US officials say, in latest sign of struggles for Moscow​
> 
> 
> 
> Updated 12:43 PM EST, Tue January 10, 2023
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian artillerymen fire at a position on the front line near the town of Bakhmut, in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region, on October 31, 2022
> Dimitar Dilkoff/AFP/Getty Images
> 
> Washington CNN —
> 
> As Russia’s invasion of Ukraine enters its 11th month, US and Ukrainian officials tell CNN that Russia’s artillery fire is down dramatically from its wartime high, in some places by as much as 75%.
> 
> US and Ukrainian officials don’t yet have a clear or singular explanation. Russia may be rationing artillery rounds due to low supplies, or it could be part of a broader reassessment of tactics in the face of successful Ukrainian offenses.
> 
> Either way, the striking decline in artillery fire is further evidence of Russia’s increasingly weak position on the battlefield nearly a year into its invasion, US and Ukrainian officials told CNN. It also comes as Ukraine is enjoying increased military support from its western allies, with the US and Germany announcing last week that they will be providing Ukrainian forces for the first time with armored fighting vehicles, as well as another Patriot Defense missile battery that will help protect its skies.
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin, meanwhile, is apparently clambering to shore up domestic political support, US intelligence officials believe, for a war he initially would only describe as a limited “special military operation.”
> 
> US officials believe the 36-hour ceasefire Putin ordered in Ukraine last week to allow for the observance of Orthodox Christmas was an attempt to pander to Russia’s extensive Christian population, two people familiar with the intelligence told CNN, as well as an opportunity for Putin to blame Ukrainians for breaking it and paint them as heretical heathens.
> 
> ‘The bucket is getting smaller’​
> Much of the domestic opposition Putin and his generals have faced over the handling of the war has come from one of the Russian leader’s closest allies: Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the mercenary organization Wagner Group. Prigozhin has complained that the Russian Ministry of Defense has botched the war effort, and that Wagner Group should be given more equipment, authority and autonomy to carry out operations in Ukraine.
> 
> But Wagner Group has lost thousands of fighters in Ukraine the last two months alone, a senior US official said.




Another bullshit claim that Russians are running out of weapons. This ridiculous claim is repeated in West's mouthpieces such as CNN and other propaganda outlets. Frankly, they can say anything and they know it makes no sense.

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## aviator_fan

thetutle said:


> From a muslim point of view, Both Russia and the West occupy Muslims lands and are causing grief for muslims.
> 
> List of Muslim lands held by russia:
> Caucases. Southern Russia near Black Sea, Tatar areas, Karabakh, Various occupations in Central Asia.
> Land area = Very very very large land area. maybe 4,000,000 sq/km
> 
> List of Muslims lands held by west:
> Israel. West Bank, Gaza. Spanish exclaves in Africa (Melilia & Ceuta).
> Land area = 21,000 sq/km (42% of Dagestan)
> 
> So a prudent strategy would be to see russia fail and take back what's possible.


This would be the prudent logical view. But it discounts the fact that there people who while they don'trlike Putin but really are against the west exceptionalism/power/prosperity. Even though some of them on this forum actually live there. 

So its more about dislike towards west exceptionalism that guides the idiotic comments up to the anti-christ.....

Why Khomeini or MBS or Saddam could not be the anti-christ its because obviusly anti-christ won't have a beard or facial hair.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612812420405133312

Shaheed-136/131 drones are up in the air on Kiev. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612928177285873665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612894657318629376

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## aviator_fan

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612573213208334353
> The U.S. is considering sending Stryker armored combat vehicles to Ukraine in an upcoming aid package to help Kyiv fend off an expected Russian spring offensive, according to two people familiar with the discussion.
> 
> The news follows the Biden administration’s announcement last week that it will send 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, a powerful tracked armored vehicle that carries an autocannon, a machine gun and TOW missiles.
> 
> #PrayForRussia


So the pro-trump part of congress is not coming to Putin's rescue? Come on many were counting on it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612921320429310015
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612933330785255427




Neither of those clips show anything that was hit. They were a rocket and an ammunition that were wasted. But hey if they aint paying for it, they can waste it, right? Gotcha, bro. It makes perfect sense.

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## 925boy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612871547819102208


ALso CANNOT formally join NATO with its territory (East Ukraine) occupied by Russia.

Ukraine only keeps getting fukd harder and harder...but its ok , thats what Ukrainian govt ordered.



ZeGerman said:


> Russians do what they do best. Die as fodder for the Tsar.
> 
> Too bad many more need to die before they actually oppose the war



NO, this is what you meant to say, and i agree with this:


> ZeGerman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukranians do what they do best. Die as fodder for NATO.
> 
> Too bad many more need to die before they actually oppose the war
Click to expand...




mike2000 is back said:


> Wait , so Russia is sending prisoners to Ukraine? Wow.....can only imagine the atrocities those prisoners have been committing against the people of Ukraine.


atrocities...or actually good performance against an apparently "professional"UKranian army?

ITs amazing tbh that "prisoners" can "meat grind" Ukraine's "experienced" army in Bakhmut when they arent even professional soldiers? wow- Ukranian army is BAD.


mike2000 is back said:


> For them to start using prisoners shows how much Russia is getting desperate . Lol


desperate to not lose their best soldiers early in the war....a cost Ukraine is paying now for not being smart about either. Ukraine cant make it to end of the year like this without NATO help or putting up the white surrender flag....rate of losses on front line is now unsustainable.

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## aviator_fan

925boy said:


> too little too late - Ukrainian military is losing Bakhmut and Soledar quicker than anyone expected -fact!
> 
> Ukraine's military logistics backend is obviously fukd up- war is logistics- if your logistics breaks down, you lose the war.


Faster than anyone expected: 'ANYONE' expected 4 years. They will take over 6 months from now so thats a year since they started. That can be a definition of faster than anyone expected in Putin world.

In real world, 'faster than anyone expected' is Russians try take over Kiev and get pushed back and lose Kherson within months.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Another bullshit claim that Russians are running out of weapons. This ridiculous claim is repeated in West's mouthpieces such as CNN and other propaganda outlets. Frankly, they can say anything and they know it makes no sense.


Its about as BS as the twitter feeds you are constantly posting that if 1/100th of it was true, Wagner would be in Kiev. So don't post unsubstantiated BS if you can't tolerate counter view.

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> Ukraine knows Bakhmut can not fall at all and Russia knows they to capture Bakhmut at any cost.
> 
> It’s a Verdun for both A nasty meat grinder


As of right now, RUssian army will "COLLECT" Bakhmut soon, like an analyst said already on twitter, "Soledar and Bakhmut are already lost, its only a matter of time,,"..I fully agree!

It seems Ukrainian army's main defense line on the east Ukraine front will crack soon....and this is only January!

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## S10

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Who's willing to bet this is not made out of metal and just larp gear?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612710075881381889


Could still be effective against sharpnels


----------



## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> As of right now, RUssian army will "COLLECT Bakhmut soon, like an analyst said already on twitter, "Soledar and Bakhmut are already lost, its only a matter of time,,"..fully agreed!
> 
> It seems Ukrainian army's main defense line on the east Ukraine front will crack soon....and this is only January!


 
Some say on here it has no strategic meaning? Bakhmut is a gateway to Kramatorsk and Slovyansk. Has many roads going in all directions. Bakhmut is very critical..junction that’s why Ukraine is defending it with their best artillery brigade.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612909859036340240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612959190137597952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612955988671500288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612921862819905536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612894857739239424

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## jhungary

Interesting. Reading a not so confirmed report yesterday that the Swede are sending this in their next Aid Package to Ukraine






The Swede was debating whether or not send the Archer Artillery System to Ukraine, and the report was done in Oct last year saying Sweden CAN send 12 archer system to Ukraine as part of aid package and in this Article they are saying Sweden WILL send them with the next aid package.









Sweden intends to supply 155mm Archer artillery systems to Ukraine


Sweden intends to supply Ukraine with Archer self-propelled howitzers. This question [Archer delivery - ed.] is not "will Sweden deliver", but "when will it".




bulgarianmilitary.com





Archer is EXTREMELY MOBILE system, as the demo show, the system is entirely self contained and they could fire 3 rounds and evade before the 1st round hit the target at max range (55 km). 12 of these would mean 36 rounds will impact on the Russian when the system already moved on.

It would be great for Ukraine if this is indeed true.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612893605647028231
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612871860030476295
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612802529968132101





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612964239593050113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612966520337866755

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612966529234046977
https://twitter.com/TobiAyodele/status/1612966537119285249

Cope harder.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612928657156177920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612923551631265808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612942036772048896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612943245516111872

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## Reashot Xigwin

Estonian Robots to the rescue literally

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612512140304478211


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## Stranagor

Mohsin A said:


> A regime that doesn't give a toss about its own people ...



You mistake Iranian regime for that of Ukrainian.


----------



## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Interesting. Reading a not so confirmed report yesterday that the Swede are sending this in their next Aid Package to Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Swede was debating whether or not send the Archer Artillery System to Ukraine, and the report was done in Oct last year saying Sweden CAN send 12 archer system to Ukraine as part of aid package and in this Article they are saying Sweden WILL send them with the next aid package.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden intends to supply 155mm Archer artillery systems to Ukraine
> 
> 
> Sweden intends to supply Ukraine with Archer self-propelled howitzers. This question [Archer delivery - ed.] is not "will Sweden deliver", but "when will it".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bulgarianmilitary.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archer is EXTREMELY MOBILE system, as the demo show, the system is entirely self contained and they could fire 3 rounds and evade before the 1st round hit the target at max range (55 km). 12 of these would mean 36 rounds will impact on the Russian when the system already moved on.
> 
> It would be great for Ukraine if this is indeed true.



This is beautiful weapon system. Funny that Sweden who hasn’t seen combat for years has some of the best military equipment.


----------



## khansaheeb

Russia pushes to capture Ukraine’s salt mining town


“Russia’s Soledar axis is highly likely an effort to envelop Bakhmut from the north, and to disrupt Ukrainian lines of communication,” says Britain.



www.dawn.com




Russia pushes to capture Ukraine’s salt mining town​Reuters Published January 11, 2023 Updated about an hour ago














0





Ukrainian soldiers fire an anti-aircraft weapon in the frontline city of Bakhmut on Tuesday.—Reuters
KYIV: Russian troops have stepped up an assault on the small salt mining town of Soledar in eastern Ukraine, forcing Ukrainian troops to repel waves of attacks led by mercenary forces, officials in Kyiv said.
Britain’s defence ministry said on Tuesday that Russian and forces of the Wagner contract group were probably now in control of most of the town, in the industrial Donbas region, after advances in the last four days.
Seizing Soledar would be advantageous to Russian forces as they fight for control of the city of Bakhmut, a few kilometres to the southwest, where troops from both sides have been taking heavy losses in some of the most intense trench warfare since Russia invaded Ukraine nearly 11 months ago. It would also give Russia a welcome battlefield victory after a series of setbacks in recent months.
“Russia’s Soledar axis is highly likely an effort to envelop Bakhmut from the north, and to disrupt Ukrainian lines of communication,” Britain said in an intelligence briefly.
Prominent journalist Yuriy Butusov, who is embedded with Ukrainian troops in Soledar, wrote for the online outlet New Voice that Russian forces had established fire control over the main Ukrainian supply route to the town.
“This is not a complete encirclement, but normal supply along the route is impossible, (and) this is critical for defence,” he said.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in his nightly video address on Monday that Bakhmut and Soledar were holding on despite widespread destruction.
He cited new and fiercer attacks in Soledar, where he said no walls have been left standing and the land was covered with Russian corpses.
“Thanks to the resilience of our soldiers in Soledar, we have won for Ukraine additional time and additional strength,” Zelenskiy said.
He did not spell out what he meant by gaining time or strength.
Bakhmut is located on a strategic supply line between the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, which make up the Donbas. Gaining control of it could give Russia a stepping stone to advance on two bigger cities — Kramatorsk and Sloviansk.
Russia’s defence ministry did not mention either Soledar or Bakhmut in a media briefing on Monday.
Wagner was founded by Yevgeny Prigozhin, an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Drawing some recruits from Russia’s prisons and known for uncompromising violence, it is active in conflicts in Africa and has taken a prominent role in Russia’s war effort in Ukraine.
Prigozhin has been trying to capture Bakhmut and Soledar for months at the cost of many lives on both sides.
He said on Saturday its significance lay in a network of cavernous mining tunnels below the ground, which can hold troops or tanks. A US official has said Prigozhin was eyeing the salt and gypsum from the mines, believed to extend over 100 miles underground.
Ukrainian military analyst Oleh Zhdanov said fighting in Bahkmut and Soledar was “the most intense on the entire frontline”. “So many remain on the battlefield … either dead or wounded,” he said on YouTube.
“They attack our positions in waves, but the wounded as a rule die where they lie, either from exposure as it is very cold or from blood loss. No one is coming to help them or to collect the dead from the battlefield.”
In an evacuee centre in Kramatorsk, Olha, 60, said she had fled Soledar after moving from apartment to apartment as each was destroyed in tank battles.
“There isn’t one house left intact. Apartments were burning, breaking in half,” said Olha, who gave only her first name.

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## Viet

Putin lacks of salt at home that why he hunting salt in Ukraine?



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612930855898324995

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## The SC

Russia-Ukraine War: Ukrainian Soldiers ENCIRCLED In Soledar - January 10th​

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> bakhmut was not strategic , no doubt just a meat grinder. soon it will be forgotten and then another city , village or hamlet will be turned into a meat grinder , WW1 relived
> 
> 
> at the start of war they get the city but later they easily (you may say too easily) they let it fall in Ukraine hand , you wonder why if that's their interest in the city


Putin is the head of a country of thieves. He trying to steal as much as he can in Ukraine. That’s it. Every other excuses as liberating Ukraine from the Nazi, liberating the oppressed Russians from the Ukraine regime, nothing more as camouflage. However won’t stop there. When Ukraine is finished he will continue with Georgia, Moldavia, Baltics, Poland, and other as stated in his ultimatums to the US and NATO.
What’s the strategic value of Bakhmut? Or Soledar? Is it salt?
The reality is the Russia army, the second most powerful army in the world, even trying to take a fishing village. If anything then Odessa and Kherson. Those are 1,000 times more important because taking them he can control the Black Sea and Crimea.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613040282735607808

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## khansaheeb

January 10, 2023 Russia-Ukraine news


Russian troops are making another attempt to advance on the small town of Soledar, which is near Bakhmut in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk region, according to officials. Follow here for live news updates.




www.cnn.com




9 hr 17 min ago
Situation in the eastern Ukrainian town of Soledar is "critical," soldier tells CNN​From CNN’s Yulia Keseiva in Kyiv





A Ukrainian serviceman administers first aid to a wounded soldier at a shelter in Soledar on January 8. (Roman Chop/AP)

A Ukrainian soldier fighting in the eastern town of Soledar told CNN that the situation is “critical” and the death toll is now so high that “no one counts the dead”. 
The soldier is from the 46th air mobile brigade, which is leading Ukraine’s fight to hold onto Soledar in the face of a massive assault from Russian troops and Wagner mercenaries.
CNN is not identifying him for security reasons. 
“The situation is critical. Difficult. We are holding on to the last,” said the soldier said.
He described a dynamic battlefield where buildings change hands daily and units can’t keep track of the escalating death toll. “No one will tell you how many dead and wounded there are. Because no one knows for sure. Not a single person,” he said. “Not at the headquarters. Not anywhere. Positions are being taken and re-taken constantly. What was our house today, becomes Wagner's the next day.”
“In Soledar, no one counts the dead,” he added.
The soldier said it was unclear as of Tuesday night how much of the town was held by the Russians: “No one can definitely say who moved where and who holds what, because no one knows for sure. There is a huge grey area in the city that everyone claims to control, [but] it’s just any empty hype.”
The Ukrainians have lost many troops in Soledar but the ranks are being replenished as the fight for the mining town continues, he said: “The personnel of our units have been renewed by almost half, more or less. We do not even have time to memorize each other’s call signs [when new personnel arrive].”
The soldier said that he believed Ukraine’s military leaders would eventually abandon the fight for Soledar and questioned why they hadn’t done this yet. “Everyone understands that the city will be abandoned. Everyone understands this,” he said. “I just want to understand what the point [in fighting house to house] is. Why die, if we are going to leave it anyway today or tomorrow?”
The 46th air mobile brigade said on its Telegram channel on Tuesday that the situation in Soledar was “very difficult, but manageable." 
In his nightly address, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky thanked the soldiers of the brigade “for their bravery and steadfastness in defending Soledar.”

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## khansaheeb

Will this be the game changer for Ukraine or an escalation they will regret? Patriots will neutralize the Russian air domination ensuring the outcome will be decided by land action, where there appears to be a stalemate at present. A war of attrition is not in Russia's advantage as the Ukrainians build up their army and NATO train and arm Ukrainian forces effectively. As Russia becomes more desperate Russian Generals will be given more options on the table and the war no doubt will turn uglier :-









January 10, 2023 Russia-Ukraine news


Russian troops are making another attempt to advance on the small town of Soledar, which is near Bakhmut in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk region, according to officials. Follow here for live news updates.




www.cnn.com




15 hr 55 min ago
Ukrainians will start training on Patriot missiles in the US as soon as next week, officials say​From CNN's Oren Liebermann and Haley Britzky

Ukrainians are set to begin training on the Patriot missile system in the United States as soon as next week, two US officials familiar with the matter tell CNN.
The training program will take place at Fort Sill in Oklahoma, where the US conducts its own training on operating and maintaining the advanced air defense system. Fort Sill is one of the Army's four basic training locations and home to the service's field artillery school, which has been training service members for more than a century.
The training for the Ukrainians on the complex system is expected to take "several months," said Laura Cooper, the deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia. "I'm not going to be able to give you a specific timeframe for the completion of the training."
This comes after Pentagon press secretary Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said Thursday that the US was looking at a variety of options for where to conduct the Patriot missile training "to include potential training here in the US, overseas, or a combination of both."
The US announced it was sending Ukraine the Patriot missile system in late December when Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky visited Washington and met with US President Joe Biden.
Germany recently announced that it was sending Ukraine a second Patriot missile system from its own inventory.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613030534179094530

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## MyNameAintJeff

Viet said:


> Putin lacks of salt at home that why he hunting salt in Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612930855898324995


Let the copium flow

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Putin is the head of a country of thieves. He trying to steal as much as he can in Ukraine. That’s it. Every other excuses as liberating Ukraine from the Nazi, liberating the oppressed Russians from the Ukraine regime, nothing more as camouflage. However won’t stop there. When Ukraine is finished he will continue with Georgia, Moldavia, Baltics, Poland, and other as stated in his ultimatums to the US and NATO.
> What’s the strategic value of Bakhmut? Or Soledar? Is it salt?
> The reality is the Russia army, the second most powerful army in the world, even trying to take a fishing village. If anything then Odessa and Kherson. Those are 1,000 times more important because taking them he can control the Black Sea and Crimea.


in this war even odessa and kherson are not important , the only strategic point in Ukraine right now is Lviv and cities around it, i wonder how good defensive lines east of ukraine are if Belarus decide to enter war and capture those areas


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613065384374185984

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## Hack-Hook

khansaheeb said:


> Will this be the game changer for Ukraine or an escalation they will regret? Patriots will neutralize the Russian air domination ensuring the outcome will be decided by land action, where there appears to be a stalemate at present. A war of attrition is not in Russia's advantage as the Ukrainians build up their army and NATO train and arm Ukrainian forces effectively. As Russia becomes more desperate Russian Generals will be given more options on the table and the war no doubt will turn uglier :-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> January 10, 2023 Russia-Ukraine news
> 
> 
> Russian troops are making another attempt to advance on the small town of Soledar, which is near Bakhmut in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk region, according to officials. Follow here for live news updates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 15 hr 55 min ago
> Ukrainians will start training on Patriot missiles in the US as soon as next week, officials say​From CNN's Oren Liebermann and Haley Britzky
> 
> Ukrainians are set to begin training on the Patriot missile system in the United States as soon as next week, two US officials familiar with the matter tell CNN.
> The training program will take place at Fort Sill in Oklahoma, where the US conducts its own training on operating and maintaining the advanced air defense system. Fort Sill is one of the Army's four basic training locations and home to the service's field artillery school, which has been training service members for more than a century.
> The training for the Ukrainians on the complex system is expected to take "several months," said Laura Cooper, the deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia. "I'm not going to be able to give you a specific timeframe for the completion of the training."
> This comes after Pentagon press secretary Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said Thursday that the US was looking at a variety of options for where to conduct the Patriot missile training "to include potential training here in the US, overseas, or a combination of both."
> The US announced it was sending Ukraine the Patriot missile system in late December when Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky visited Washington and met with US President Joe Biden.
> Germany recently announced that it was sending Ukraine a second Patriot missile system from its own inventory.


did Russia even used air force ?, do they knew how to use it ? for more than the role of an air based artillery


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612993557757063170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613031660475539456

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> This is beautiful weapon system. Funny that Sweden who hasn’t seen combat for years has some of the best military equipment.


Well, Bofor (BAe Bofor now) always made good artillery, it's like that since WW2.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612771629808902144

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> in this war even odessa and kherson are not important , the only strategic point in Ukraine right now is Lviv and cities around it, i wonder how good defensive lines east of ukraine are if Belarus decide to enter war and capture those areas


Why Lviv more important?
Even if, how will the russian main line of attack? From Balarus and Transinien maybe?
The entire border area to Belarus is mined, defended by Ukraine artillery, national guards, border defense units and regular army. Not easy to break thru.
The front to Transinien will be interesting. If that happens, Moldavia will become party to the war.


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Why Lviv more important?
> Even if, how will the russian main line of attack? From Balarus and Transinien maybe?


that's NATO supply line , without it , you think how long Ukraine can continue pouring this volume of fire over the Russian .
odesa is closed for supply any ship who want to use it will be destroyed and I doubt moldava allow any supply go through its land and yes belarus can be the route of attack that Lukachenkov survival depend on Russia, he is a puppet and will never say no to putin and if putin ask he probably willing to directly intervene , allowing putin use belarus land to open another front in Ukraine even don't need 5sec of thinking for him


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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> that's NATO supply line , without it , you think how long Ukraine can continue pouring this volume of fire over the Russian .
> odesa is closed for supply any ship who want to use it will be destroyed and I doubt moldava allow any supply go through its land and yes belarus can be the route of attack that Lukachenkov survival depend on Russia, he is a puppet and will never say no to putin and if putin ask he probably willing to directly intervene , allowing putin use belarus land to open another front in Ukraine even don't need 5sec of thinking for him


NATO weapons flow into Ukraine via Poland, Romania air, roads and rails. these are the major routes, how will Putin cut off the routes? He will have the choice to declare war on the NATO.


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613030534179094530





https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/ukraine-russia-pows-exchange-prisoners/



Lets not pretend the russians take good care of captives….
They never did historically and they also have not shown it during this conflict.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> NATO weapons flow into Ukraine via Poland, Romania air, roads and rails. these are the major routes, how will Putin cut off the routes? He will have the choice to declare war on the NATO.


NATO weapon can't fly over Russia controlled lands , if they capture those areas , they simply can destroy any transport plane enter those area , and he can cut those route by attacking from north and go toward south and reach Moldava .

and as Ukraine draw dangerously from any branch anywhere and send them to Soledor and Bakhmut to fight some Russian prisoners , wonder there is enough man to put on those lines


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> NATO weapon can't fly over Russia controlled lands , if they capture those areas , they simply can destroy any transport plane enter those area , and he can cut those route by attacking from north and go toward south and reach Moldava .
> 
> and as Ukraine draw dangerously from any branch anywhere and send them to Soledor and Bakhmut to fight some Russian prisoners , wonder there is enough man to put on those lines


First of all, whatever Russia tried they already did tried in February, if they can't crack that border with the best of their troop and best of their armor with the Ukrainian caught in the proverbial pants in between their leg, they can't even hope of doing it now. Ukraine had around 4 Brigade defending that entire area back in Feb 24. Now there are 15 Brigade. And then they have been focusing on making defensive line toward the Belarus border. If Russian, try to start another front in the north, they will probably need 10 times more than the force they had back in Feb last year, and if they can't supply that force back in Feb, it would have been a disaster for the Russian to do it again. 







Secondly, most Ukrainian force uses combat rotation, which mean new TDF unit got fed into Warzone in the South and in the East, then rotate with regular unit. Most of the TDF brigade had experience in battle. Against brand new troop of Russia, not really look good for the Russian. 

And finally, there were talks for Poland or Estonia to support an uprising or even literally invade Belarus if they become part of this war. Now that probably implied if Belarussian troop cross the border themselves, but that may change if the Russian tried that again. 

And finally, there are no way Russia can get that far into Lviv because as I explained many time here, you will then have one side face Polish Border, which you can't cross, and the other going to be pinned by the Ukrainian force, that is a very good way to lose a war.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> And finally, there are no way Russia can get that far into Lviv because as I explained many time here, you will then have one side face Polish Border, which you can't cross, and the other going to be pinned by the Ukrainian force, that is a very good way to lose a war.


if mean time russia make another push from the east there won't be that much troop to transfare west toward belarusian forces. and no i doubt poland will attack belarus as they are somehow depleted by this war in ukraine and if something happen they cant rely on article 5 of the NATO , start uprising , yes they can do but enter in direct war ,very unlikely


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> if mean time russia make another push from the east there won't be that much troop to transfare west toward belarusian forces. and no i doubt poland will attack belarus as they are somehow depleted by this war in ukraine and if something happen they cant rely on article 5 of the NATO , start uprising , yes they can do but enter in direct war ,very unlikely


No. Remember when I said Ukrainian rotate their troop. 

Take 2 Brigade for an example. 95th and 115th, 95 was based (as in their garrison) in Zhytomyr, which is WEST of Kyiv, their current position is somewhere in the East western intelligence believe it is near Bakhmut. When they were in Bakhmut, their position in Zhytomyr was taken by 115th Brigade, and they rotate with each other. And before that, it was 120 TDF Brigade.

So essentally, what the Ukrainian do is rotate troop and put their reserve to back up a regular unit, and redeploy them back to their original base to refit and reorganise after 3 or 4 months, and put one of those TDF brigade in their place. That way you preserve your force, and you keep the force fresh.

Russia on the other hand, leave their unit in threatre until either they are decimated or no longer function as a BTG. Which mean the combat power erode much quicker and when that unit is gone, it IS gone, you will either need to put new unit in them (hence the mobilisation) or disband other to form one from the remaining troop. 

That is the reason why Ukraine don't have mobilisation, when the Russia is asking for another one. Ukraine use the time they deployed their frontline brigade in the frontline to train new troop, form new Brigade and so on, and when that regular unit come back for R&R, you send that new unit off in their place, and rotate them back and reuse the regular unit. 

On the other hand, Ukraine still probably have 10 or 15 Brigade that were not used anywhere in the line, which coincide with the latest round of Miltiary Aid, I don't personally believe in coincident. It's not at all hard to see they are waiting on the new Western Hardware to form rejuvenate their military power for another push. 

On the other hand, while I also do not believe Poland will invade Belarus, but the actual talk have their weight, it make Lukachenko think twice, that is probably the single reason why Lukachenko refused to commit to this war even as the go so far to let Russia do what they please within their own territories, in fact, my wife had point out that effectively Belarus should be already be at war with Ukraine.

On the other hand Poland is not a depleted force, just rely on ex-Soviet equipment alone, they can already take on Belarus. Probably even enough to neutralise Russian troop inside Ukraine with. You are talking about 1000+ T-72 (T-72 + PT-91) hundred of Grad, Hundreds of 2S1. That would be more than enough to fight Belarussian. And then they are buying new Western stuff like crazy, 220 HIMARS, 198 Chunmoo, 400 M1 Abrams, 1000 K-2 Tank.....I mean, they are going to be armed to the teeth in the next few years. I don't think poland is depleted in any form or sense if you ask me.


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## thetutle

mike2000 is back said:


> The same RUSSIAN sources and Russian government itself have always claimed the srebrenica massacre was a lie and made up. Yet funny enough they used it to also justify their intervention in Ukraine saying they wanted to avoid a srebrenica like massacre in Ukraine . Lol
> 
> However, if you are a Bosnian Serb, then it makes sense to believe "Russian sources" due to obvious reasons of closeness with Russia.
> So i won't even bother with Russian Propaganda/disinformation, since its quite common and i know their tricks.


I'm obviously joking.


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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> NATO weapon can't fly over Russia controlled lands , if they capture those areas , they simply can destroy any transport plane enter those area , and he can cut those route by attacking from north and go toward south and reach Moldava .
> 
> and as Ukraine draw dangerously from any branch anywhere and send them to Soledor and Bakhmut to fight some Russian prisoners , wonder there is enough man to put on those lines


Where is Russia aviation? That does not exist. Most are dead and downed. What we seeing, Putin’s bombers fire cruise missiles from Russia mainland towards Ukraine civil infra. They don’t even target Ukraine military targets anymore. They are too afraid of Ukraine air defense. Terror bombing that’s it. Forget about controlling Ukraine airspace or target NATO weapons delivery.

Sure, Ukraine won’t fly over airspace controlled by the hooligans.


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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> First of all, whatever Russia tried they already did tried in February, if they can't crack that border with the best of their troop and best of their armor with the Ukrainian caught in the proverbial pants in between their leg, they can't even hope of doing it now. Ukraine had around 4 Brigade defending that entire area back in Feb 24. Now there are 15 Brigade. And then they have been focusing on making defensive line toward the Belarus border. If Russian, try to start another front in the north, they will probably need 10 times more than the force they had back in Feb last year, and if they can't supply that force back in Feb, it would have been a disaster for the Russian to do it again.
> 
> View attachment 910867
> 
> 
> Secondly, most Ukrainian force uses combat rotation, which mean new TDF unit got fed into Warzone in the South and in the East, then rotate with regular unit. Most of the TDF brigade had experience in battle. Against brand new troop of Russia, not really look good for the Russian.
> 
> And finally, there were talks for Poland or Estonia to support an uprising or even literally invade Belarus if they become part of this war. Now that probably implied if Belarussian troop cross the border themselves, but that may change if the Russian tried that again.
> 
> And finally, there are no way Russia can get that far into Lviv because as I explained many time here, you will then have one side face Polish Border, which you can't cross, and the other going to be pinned by the Ukrainian force, that is a very good way to lose a war.


What insane about Russia is they still uses mass infantry charges in this day and age. Don't get me wrong I love seeing dead russians. But you gotta wonder is the one in charge of their military/mercenaries is either stupid or retarded. So don't try to use common sense against this people.

If putin wants to invade from the north expects a lot of would be dead russians pouring down from belarus.




mike2000 is back said:


> The same RUSSIAN sources and Russian government itself have always claimed the srebrenica massacre was a lie and made up. Yet funny enough they used it to also justify their intervention in Ukraine saying they wanted to avoid a srebrenica like massacre in Ukraine . Lol
> 
> However, if you are a Bosnian Serb, then it makes sense to believe "Russian sources" due to obvious reasons of closeness with Russia.
> So i won't even bother with Russian Propaganda/disinformation, since its quite common and i know their tricks.


How do I decides that someone is an irredeemable piece of shit is asking them what are their thoughts of the genocide in yugoslavia. This also apply to other genocide.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282094681178988544

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613127223384444931

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613122492159217665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613128105706819589

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hack-Hook

Reashot Xigwin said:


> What insane about Russia is they still uses mass infantry charges in this day and age. Don't get me wrong I love seeing dead russians. But you gotta wonder is the one in charge of their military/mercenaries is either stupid or retarded. So don't try to use common sense against this people.
> 
> *If putin wants to invade from the north expects a lot of would be dead russians pouring down from belarus.*


as if Russian government consider that a minus , just fill the first line with unsavory elements and undesired , I bet Putin consider that casualties a bonus , one example of the resources he can tap into for front-line




as far as mr. Putin is concerned the war can go on for now


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## thetutle

vizier said:


> Ukraine wont be asked to recognize any inch of land belonging to Russia. It would be like returning to pre-war conditions with incurring costs for Russia with economic consequences of sanctions and isolation from Europe unless agreement is reached with Ukraine. This way even in not Putins time future Russian governments would make agreements and concessions with Ukraine possibly giving the Donbass land back with Minsk 3 type of agreements. In Crimea similar concessions can be given by Russia later on instead of ongoing warfware with nuclear escalation possibility for many more years.


No need to make concessions. This needs to keep going until the end. See where it ends up. 

Nuclear warfare is no problem at all. If they thought tis possible they would not be arming ukraine.


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## That Guy

thetutle said:


> No need to make concessions. This needs to keep going until the end. See where it ends up.
> 
> Nuclear warfare is no problem at all. If they thought tis possible they would not be arming ukraine.


Nah, a nuclear war only becomes a problem when...
A) a nuclear nation's territory is under threat, which in this case isn't true.

B) if two nuclear powers go directly to war, which again is not the case.

Also, Russia using nukes would be the height of stupidity, as the nuclear radiation would spill over into Russia.


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## The SC

BREAKING | Soledar Captured by Russian Wagner Mercs and Paratroopers​

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612858884967862303

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613073487597568000

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## thetutle

Viet said:


> NATO weapons flow into Ukraine via Poland, Romania air, roads and rails. these are the major routes, how will Putin cut off the routes? He will have the choice to declare war on the NATO.


He can take the border along Poland. That would stop the weapons coming in easily. It would not stop totally, but, yeah, he could take all the paths bordering Poland and NATO.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613061024072237057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613161179743981569

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> And finally, there were talks for Poland or Estonia to support an uprising or even literally invade Belarus if they become part of this war. Now that probably implied if Belarussian troop cross the border themselves, but that may change if the Russian tried that again.


I cant see Estonia invading Belarus. That would cause russia to come to the aid of Belarus and fight anyone attacking Belarus. 


jhungary said:


> And finally, there are no way Russia can get that far into Lviv because as I explained many time here, you will then have one side face Polish Border, which you can't cross, and the other going to be pinned by the Ukrainian force, that is a very good way to lose a war.


The wont face any threat from the polish border. So its not that dangerous. If I was Poland would joint the war if Russians did that.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> What insane about Russia is they still uses mass infantry charges in this day and age. Don't get me wrong I love seeing dead russians. But you gotta wonder is the one in charge of their military/mercenaries is either stupid or retarded. So don't try to use common sense against this people.
> 
> If putin wants to invade from the north expects a lot of would be dead russians pouring down from belarus.
> 
> 
> 
> How do I decides that someone is an irredeemable piece of shit is asking them what are their thoughts of the genocide in yugoslavia. This also apply to other genocide.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282094681178988544


Shocking and tragic. He killed his own son doing this. I'll make my kids watch this. You don't surrender. You just gotta keep going.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

It is like the domino effect. Town by town, the DPR (Donetsk People's Republic) liberators, backed by the RAF, are liberating their territories in the DPR from NATO and their Ukrainian collaborators. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613086128218701825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613110097043140608


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613104314909696002


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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612858884967862303


Dont worry this guy is not in Kiyev. If he was he's finished. So he's definitely not.


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## Viet

thetutle said:


> He can take the border along Poland. That would stop the weapons coming in easily. It would not stop totally, but, yeah, he could take all the paths bordering Poland and NATO.


Easily? Ok then why not do it today? Probably it was Putin’s grand plan. It’s just the entire western side from Poland and Romania to take. I double the Russians can they still struggle since months to take Bakhmut still no success.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613163730530975745


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## thetutle

Viet said:


> Easily? Ok then why not do it? It’s just the entire western side from Poland and Romania. I double the Russians can they still struggle since months to take Bakhmut still no success.


I mean it would stop an easy flow of western weapons. I dont think Russians can take it easily. They wont be able to take it at all.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612541472988864519


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## Viet

thetutle said:


> I mean it would stop an easy flow of western weapons. I dont think Russians can take it easily. They wont be able to take it at all.


It’s hopeless. Accept nukes I don’t see any likelihood Russia wins this war. Even if Putin can recruit one million new mobis. The Russia army is decimated it will take years or a decade to recover to pre war condition. By then Russia economy is just a fraction of. Putin’s Russia will be a mix of Cuba and NK. A country filled by poor, isolated, desperate, but fanatical people.


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